FB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

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Pat Coleman

Ambien means you don't get a statistical spotlight tonight or a D3hoops.com preseason top 25 next week. :)
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Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

Llamaguy

Quote from: ToddEandH on October 22, 2007, 08:27:52 PM
Can we move on to something other than the attendence figures at E&H? The ODAC is a very competitive league but I wounder how long it wll take for us to get another team in the finals. The Bridgewater team that went was a very special team with some great playmakers.  Lutz was a winner at QB. I just don't see the talent level today getting anybody to the next level soon.





Present and accounted for sir!  ;D ;D ;D
"The Dali Llama"

Bridgewater Football 1980,2001,2002,2003,2004,2005 ODAC Champions!

abnrgr

"Ambien means you don't get a statistical spotlight tonight or a D3hoops.com preseason top 25 next week".

Touche' Herr Coleman.  If you don't work hard you're never be the best
Never shall I leave a fallen comrade

Oil Can

Quote from: ToddEandH on October 22, 2007, 08:27:52 PM
The ODAC is a very competitive league but I wounder how long it wll take for us to get another team in the finals. The Bridgewater team that went was a very special team with some great playmakers.  Lutz was a winner at QB. I just don't see the talent level today getting anybody to the next level soon.

I've seen a boat load of D3 games the last 8 years, including a (lesser) boatload of D3 playoff games.  The current edition of ODAC football does not strike me as having any one team that could make a serious run deep into the playoffs.  Although the league is more balanced, record wise, the teams I've seen firsthand all have flaws that can be exposed in a playoff run.  I am still to see W&L, Macon and CUA, so I shouldn't lump them in just yet, and the non-ODAC teams I've seen this year have been less than steller, but we'll see.  Playoffs, particularly 2nd and 3rd round games, reveal beasts!

Doesn't mean I don't want to see an ODAC team (or 2) represent well ;D

allsky7

Quote from: Oil Can on October 23, 2007, 07:58:19 AM
Quote from: ToddEandH on October 22, 2007, 08:27:52 PM
The ODAC is a very competitive league but I wounder how long it wll take for us to get another team in the finals. The Bridgewater team that went was a very special team with some great playmakers.  Lutz was a winner at QB. I just don't see the talent level today getting anybody to the next level soon.

I've seen a boat load of D3 games the last 8 years, including a (lesser) boatload of D3 playoff games.  The current edition of ODAC football does not strike me as having any one team that could make a serious run deep into the playoffs.  Although the league is more balanced, record wise, the teams I've seen firsthand all have flaws that can be exposed in a playoff run.  I am still to see W&L, Macon and CUA, so I shouldn't lump them in just yet, and the non-ODAC teams I've seen this year have been less than steller, but we'll see.  Playoffs, particularly 2nd and 3rd round games, reveal beasts!

Doesn't mean I don't want to see an ODAC team (or 2) represent well ;D


     I agree. I have only seen a couple of ODAC games so far this year. My gut is the ODAC rep could win one...two tops. I will see the 2nd tier of the USA South this weekend and at least one more ODAC match up. The Stagg Bowl is on the calendar but hopefully a first round playoff game will be close by. My only in person experience with teams making it deep in the playoffs is MU and WW last year and the year before. Other than the 2001 BC team, the Chris Warren Ferrum team, and the 1977 Tiger team, no ODAC or USAC team I have ever seen can compete with these two. No shame there though....there are dozens that fit into that category.   :o
     BTW....IMHO, the Chris Warren/Freddie Stoval Ferrum team (year escapes me) was talented enough to win a NC. I saw them lose to a solid, fundamentally sound, but beatable Union team. Ferrum just couldn't hold on to the football. Guess that's why they play the games.  8)

miz

#11120
Quote from: allsky7 on October 23, 2007, 08:59:06 AM
Quote from: Oil Can on October 23, 2007, 07:58:19 AM
Quote from: ToddEandH on October 22, 2007, 08:27:52 PM
The ODAC is a very competitive league but I wounder how long it wll take for us to get another team in the finals. The Bridgewater team that went was a very special team with some great playmakers.  Lutz was a winner at QB. I just don't see the talent level today getting anybody to the next level soon.

I've seen a boat load of D3 games the last 8 years, including a (lesser) boatload of D3 playoff games.  The current edition of ODAC football does not strike me as having any one team that could make a serious run deep into the playoffs.  Although the league is more balanced, record wise, the teams I've seen firsthand all have flaws that can be exposed in a playoff run.  I am still to see W&L, Macon and CUA, so I shouldn't lump them in just yet, and the non-ODAC teams I've seen this year have been less than steller, but we'll see.  Playoffs, particularly 2nd and 3rd round games, reveal beasts!

Doesn't mean I don't want to see an ODAC team (or 2) represent well ;D


     I agree. I have only seen a couple of ODAC games so far this year. My gut is the ODAC rep could win one...two tops. I will see the 2nd tier of the USA South this weekend and at least one more ODAC match up. The Stagg Bowl is on the calendar but hopefully a first round playoff game will be close by. My only in person experience with teams making it deep in the playoffs is MU and WW last year and the year before. Other than the 2001 BC team, the Chris Warren Ferrum team, and the 1977 Tiger team, no ODAC or USAC team I have ever seen can compete with these two. No shame there though....there are dozens that fit into that category.   :o
     BTW....IMHO, the Chris Warren/Freddie Stoval Ferrum team (year escapes me) was talented enough to win a NC. I saw them lose to a solid, fundamentally sound, but beatable Union team. Ferrum just couldn't hold on to the football. Guess that's why they play the games.  8)

It's difficult to see and judge a team's real potential in one viewing.  Remember that '01 BC team needed overtime to defeat a 5-5 W&L team and had to hang on in the last minute after nearly blowing a 28-point lead at 5-5 HSC.  In contrast, the '03 team rolled through the South region on the backs of the defense before getting demolished 66-0 by Mt. Union in the semis.  The '01 team did have talent, but they also had "moxie" and an inate ability to pull out wins in the 4th quarter even when they weren't necessarily playing well. 

My point is only that it's nearly impossible to predict what could happen week-to-week much less to predict how well a team could do versus unknown competition.  That said, I think this year HSC is a team that can scheme very well and cause problems but I don't think they have quite the athletes to go far.  In the OCAC, I still think BC is the only team who really could go on a deep run based on talent alone.  However, I haven't yet seen that same "moxie" in this year's team that we had in '01.

allsky7

Quote from: miz on October 23, 2007, 10:17:49 AM
Quote from: allsky7 on October 23, 2007, 08:59:06 AM
Quote from: Oil Can on October 23, 2007, 07:58:19 AM
Quote from: ToddEandH on October 22, 2007, 08:27:52 PM
The ODAC is a very competitive league but I wounder how long it wll take for us to get another team in the finals. The Bridgewater team that went was a very special team with some great playmakers.  Lutz was a winner at QB. I just don't see the talent level today getting anybody to the next level soon.

I've seen a boat load of D3 games the last 8 years, including a (lesser) boatload of D3 playoff games.  The current edition of ODAC football does not strike me as having any one team that could make a serious run deep into the playoffs.  Although the league is more balanced, record wise, the teams I've seen firsthand all have flaws that can be exposed in a playoff run.  I am still to see W&L, Macon and CUA, so I shouldn't lump them in just yet, and the non-ODAC teams I've seen this year have been less than steller, but we'll see.  Playoffs, particularly 2nd and 3rd round games, reveal beasts!

Doesn't mean I don't want to see an ODAC team (or 2) represent well ;D


     I agree. I have only seen a couple of ODAC games so far this year. My gut is the ODAC rep could win one...two tops. I will see the 2nd tier of the USA South this weekend and at least one more ODAC match up. The Stagg Bowl is on the calendar but hopefully a first round playoff game will be close by. My only in person experience with teams making it deep in the playoffs is MU and WW last year and the year before. Other than the 2001 BC team, the Chris Warren Ferrum team, and the 1977 Tiger team, no ODAC or USAC team I have ever seen can compete with these two. No shame there though....there are dozens that fit into that category.   :o
     BTW....IMHO, the Chris Warren/Freddie Stoval Ferrum team (year escapes me) was talented enough to win a NC. I saw them lose to a solid, fundamentally sound, but beatable Union team. Ferrum just couldn't hold on to the football. Guess that's why they play the games.  8)

It's difficult to see and judge a team's real potential in one viewing.  Remember that '01 BC team needed overtime to defeat a 5-5 W&L team and had to hang on in the last minute after nearly blowing a 28-point lead at 5-5 HSC.  In contrast, the '03 team rolled through the South region on the backs of the defense before getting demolished 66-0 by Mt. Union in the semis.  The '01 team did have talent, but they also had "moxie" and an inate ability to pull out wins in the 4th quarter even when they weren't necessarily playing well. 

My point is only that it's nearly impossible to predict what could happen week-to-week much less to predict how well a team could do versus unknown competition.  That said, I think this year HSC is a team that can scheme very well and cause problems but I don't think they have quite the athletes to go far.  In the OCAC, I still think BC is the only team who really could go on a deep run based on talent alone.  However, I haven't yet seen that same "moxie" in this year's team that we had in '01.

     I agree that the Tigers do not have the overall talent to make a run deep into the playoffs. Winning the ODAC would be a great year. Winning a first round playoff game would be a fantastic year. Anything beyond that would be unreal!!  :o I respectfully disagree but I don't think that BC has that kind of talent this year either. Again, I would have no problem being wrong on that account as it is good for the entire ODAC when  any member has success ;) Your comment on limited exposure to a team is valid but gut and speculation is part of what makes this so much fun.   ;D

allsky7

Quote from: miz on October 23, 2007, 10:17:49 AM
Quote from: allsky7 on October 23, 2007, 08:59:06 AM
Quote from: Oil Can on October 23, 2007, 07:58:19 AM
Quote from: ToddEandH on October 22, 2007, 08:27:52 PM
The ODAC is a very competitive league but I wounder how long it wll take for us to get another team in the finals. The Bridgewater team that went was a very special team with some great playmakers.  Lutz was a winner at QB. I just don't see the talent level today getting anybody to the next level soon.

I've seen a boat load of D3 games the last 8 years, including a (lesser) boatload of D3 playoff games.  The current edition of ODAC football does not strike me as having any one team that could make a serious run deep into the playoffs.  Although the league is more balanced, record wise, the teams I've seen firsthand all have flaws that can be exposed in a playoff run.  I am still to see W&L, Macon and CUA, so I shouldn't lump them in just yet, and the non-ODAC teams I've seen this year have been less than steller, but we'll see.  Playoffs, particularly 2nd and 3rd round games, reveal beasts!

Doesn't mean I don't want to see an ODAC team (or 2) represent well ;D


     I agree. I have only seen a couple of ODAC games so far this year. My gut is the ODAC rep could win one...two tops. I will see the 2nd tier of the USA South this weekend and at least one more ODAC match up. The Stagg Bowl is on the calendar but hopefully a first round playoff game will be close by. My only in person experience with teams making it deep in the playoffs is MU and WW last year and the year before. Other than the 2001 BC team, the Chris Warren Ferrum team, and the 1977 Tiger team, no ODAC or USAC team I have ever seen can compete with these two. No shame there though....there are dozens that fit into that category.   :o
     BTW....IMHO, the Chris Warren/Freddie Stoval Ferrum team (year escapes me) was talented enough to win a NC. I saw them lose to a solid, fundamentally sound, but beatable Union team. Ferrum just couldn't hold on to the football. Guess that's why they play the games.  8)

It's difficult to see and judge a team's real potential in one viewing.  Remember that '01 BC team needed overtime to defeat a 5-5 W&L team and had to hang on in the last minute after nearly blowing a 28-point lead at 5-5 HSC.  In contrast, the '03 team rolled through the South region on the backs of the defense before getting demolished 66-0 by Mt. Union in the semis.  The '01 team did have talent, but they also had "moxie" and an inate ability to pull out wins in the 4th quarter even when they weren't necessarily playing well. 

My point is only that it's nearly impossible to predict what could happen week-to-week much less to predict how well a team could do versus unknown competition.  That said, I think this year HSC is a team that can scheme very well and cause problems but I don't think they have quite the athletes to go far.  In the OCAC, I still think BC is the only team who really could go on a deep run based on talent alone.  However, I haven't yet seen that same "moxie" in this year's team that we had in '01.

     The 2001 team may have had "moxie" (I'm sure I will get some grief on this) but if you take the QB, RB, & WR (names escape me) off that team, they are good but not a great team. (IMHO)  :o

D3Waterboy

Allsky7 said: The 2001 team may have had "moxie" (I'm sure I will get some grief on this) but if you take the QB, RB, & WR (names escape me) off that team, they are good but not a great team. (IMHO) 

Yeah, it was a 'skill-heavy' team. No talent from meaty foks on that team such as Jermaine Taylor (1st team All-American in '02 & '03, LB), Mike Day (2nd team All-American in '01 & 3rd team in '02, OL), Lonnie Parker (2nd team All-American in '01, LB), Ranardo Whitaker (Honorable Mention All-American in '04, OT). Seems center Matt Huffman got some national award too, just to name a few of the non-glamour positions.  The team was loaded !

allsky7

Quote from: D3Waterboy on October 23, 2007, 02:02:34 PM
Allsky7 said: The 2001 team may have had "moxie" (I'm sure I will get some grief on this) but if you take the QB, RB, & WR (names escape me) off that team, they are good but not a great team. (IMHO) 

Yeah, it was a 'skill-heavy' team. No talent from meaty foks on that team such as Jermaine Taylor (1st team All-American in '02 & '03, LB), Mike Day (2nd team All-American in '01 & 3rd team in '02, OL), Lonnie Parker (2nd team All-American in '01, LB), Ranardo Whitaker (Honorable Mention All-American in '04, OT). Seems center Matt Huffman got some national award too, just to name a few of the non-glamour positions.  The team was loaded !

     Never said a thing about "no talent". I said "they are a good team but not a great team."  without the three I was referring to. (Lutz, Cruz, & Richardson) It was in no way intended as a slight to the Eagles or others you mentioned. Obviously, they couldn't have accomplished what they did if they didn't have some talented guys blocking for them on the O side of the ball and some guys making stops on the D side. Heck, I was pulling for the Eagles that Dec evening in 2001 as much as anyone. Offensive skill guys are usually the ones that stand out. I saw the Eagles play twice in 2001 and my memory of these three is that they were studs. Without these three guys....ODAC Champs probably.... national runner up....doubtful. After checking out the stats of these three, I stand by what I said.  8)

Matt Barnhart (kid)

allsky8,

I guess the question is, what do you consider a great team?  If you take Lutz, Cruz, and Richardson off that team, well, you basically have the 2002 Eagles (with Jenkins, Langley, and Jones - their '02 stats below).  That team made it to the NCAA quarterfinals in '02.  If you don't consider a "final eight" team "great," then I'd love to hear what is.

Jenkins - 2,341 passing yards, 22 TDs
Langley - 127 carries, 803 yards, 6.3 ypc, 9 TDs
Jones - 32 catches, 615 yards, 8 TDs

Actually, in 2002, we had a three-headed monster at RB (Langley, Washington, and Matthews - a combined 1,667 yards, 19 TDs), as well as at WR (Jones, Lehto, and Ratliff - a combined 1,789 yards, 16 TDs).
Former Publisher of BridgewaterFootball.com

tigerftblfan

ABNRGR........Well said Sir !
I am going to give one example and this example is all one needs to know.
I tell you what, I will not even name the teams that were playing in this particular incident because its not even important. But what is important is the sorry azz ref that was standing 5 feet away and facing this play.......
OK....A touchdown is scored, a rushing TD into the endzone.
Ok, T.D. signal is called by ref. Play over for at least 10 seconds.
All at once a defensive player decides to run up " BEHIND " one of the leading blockers on the offense, as his back is turned and he hits him from behind, and knocks the player to the ground .
Now, keep in mind that a ref is standing right there and Ray Charles could have seen this, because everyone else did.
What does the REF do ????........NOTHING !!!.....No Flag thrown !!!!!
I mean this could have caused serious injury, or even more, if that was my son who got the cheap shot.....Well, lets just say me and that ref would have had a meeting after the game.....If you know what I mean ? >:(
I know this is on film.....I wonder what league officials would say about this particular Ref ?.......Right.....Nothing !
So, I dont even want to hear people making excuses for this kind of REF !
My Point......Plain and simple....Some Refs DO NOT CARE !!!



' It's not whether you get knocked down.....
It's whether you get up !
`Vince Lombardi

allsky7

Quote from: Matt Barnhart (kid) on October 23, 2007, 04:57:03 PM
allsky8,

I guess the question is, what do you consider a great team?  If you take Lutz, Cruz, and Richardson off that team, well, you basically have the 2002 Eagles (with Jenkins, Langley, and Jones - their '02 stats below).  That team made it to the NCAA quarterfinals in '02.  If you don't consider a "final eight" team "great," then I'd love to hear what is.

Jenkins - 2,341 passing yards, 22 TDs
Langley - 127 carries, 803 yards, 6.3 ypc, 9 TDs
Jones - 32 catches, 615 yards, 8 TDs

Actually, in 2002, we had a three-headed monster at RB (Langley, Washington, and Matthews - a combined 1,667 yards, 19 TDs), as well as at WR (Jones, Lehto, and Ratliff - a combined 1,789 yards, 16 TDs).

     Kid.....impressive 2002 stats. But they are just that ...2002 stats...not 2001. My post was about the 2001 BC football team. Again, it was not intended as a slight to other players on that team or any other BC team. Guess we will never know what would have happened  if Lutz, Cruz, & Richardson had not been Eagles in 2001.  I don't think I even saw the 2002 edition of BC football.  I know I saw 2001, 2003, 2004, 2005, & 2007 teams. Regardless, the 2002 Eagles were an impressive bunch no doubt. Especially when compared to other ODAC teams and post season. The fact remains, the 2001 edition is the one that put BC football on the map. It is the one that most (except for perhaps some BC faithful) will remember. You, better than I would know if the 2002 squad was a more talented team. The 2001 team advanced to the D3 finals. That is ultimately what will be remembered and to most people will define their greatness. (Fair or not)  I suppose good and great are relative terms to the context they are talked about. The BC success of recent years and several of those squads will of course be talked about in terms of greatness when talking about ODAC football. Not necessarily so when talking about the national stage. Teams like Mount Union in football, Platteville hoops, and  Hobart lax teams are what I think about in terms of greatness. Not just the dynasties that these schools produced but I'm sure some of these teams individually will be talked about in terms of greatness. I guess kid, this is my long winded way of saying that greatness applies to those that reach the highest levels of the context being discussed. In the case of my previous post, I suppose the context was somewhere between the ODAC and national stage. It is true that no ODAC team has ever won the D3 NC in football but the 2001 BC Eagles are the only ones to ever reach Salem. The point of my post was, without Lutz, Cruz, & Richardson, IMO, it is highly unlikely that the 2001 team would  have made it to Salem either relegating them to a good, but not great football team ;)
     WHEW....I'm exausted. I need a beer.  :D

Menowannalickee U.

I can't think of any team that would be just as good if you remove the starting quarterback, running back and wide reciever.  Take away Tom Brady, Laurence Maroney, and Randy Moss from this year's Patriots.  Are they a great team?  No, probably good.  Take away just Vince Young from last year's Texas team.  Are they great?  No.  Take away Matt Leinert, Reggie Bush and Dwayne Jarrett off the 05 USC team, they're still good, probably not great.  Take away...well you get the point.

allsky7

Quote from: Matt Barnhart (kid) on October 23, 2007, 04:57:03 PM
allsky8,

I guess the question is, what do you consider a great team?  If you take Lutz, Cruz, and Richardson off that team, well, you basically have the 2002 Eagles (with Jenkins, Langley, and Jones - their '02 stats below).  That team made it to the NCAA quarterfinals in '02.  If you don't consider a "final eight" team "great," then I'd love to hear what is.

Jenkins - 2,341 passing yards, 22 TDs
Langley - 127 carries, 803 yards, 6.3 ypc, 9 TDs
Jones - 32 catches, 615 yards, 8 TDs

Actually, in 2002, we had a three-headed monster at RB (Langley, Washington, and Matthews - a combined 1,667 yards, 19 TDs), as well as at WR (Jones, Lehto, and Ratliff - a combined 1,789 yards, 16 TDs).

     Kid...if the Eagles were so deep that Jenkins, Langley, & Jones could have stepped in for Lutz, Cruz, & Richardson in 2001 and taken the Eagles to Salem.....well....I spose that might qualify as a GREAT team.  ;) :D