FB: Liberty League

Started by admin, August 16, 2005, 04:58:34 AM

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wesleydad

nice season hobart.  looks like you have extended the respect to at least minnesota, earned it from those of us in delaware last year.  making the final 8 is no easy feat and coming from a football conference with little national presitge speaks volumes for how good your team is.  good luck next year, i think you will be around for some time, hope so because i would not mind playing you guys again, figure it would be a good test for wesley.

lewdogg11

Hey, when RPI lost to St. John's in 2003, they eventually went on to slay the purple monster and win the National Championship.  It makes the sting hurt a little less knowing you lost to the best calibur team in the country.  Maybe something similar will happen this year.  Now if St. Thomas gets smacked by Osh Kosh B'Gosh, then it might sting a little more.

SaintsFAN

Quote from: Rt Rev J.H. Hobart on December 01, 2012, 09:50:33 PM
The Rev does have an off-season goal: to get off his lazy bum and exercise. The Rev has exceeded the USCG height/weight standards and his #1 goal is to regain proper shape and to hit the physical fitness test scores (e.g. Swim 500 m in 12 minutes or less). As an Auxiliarist, I'm not really obliged to maintain them but since I am the only representative they see on a regular basis, I think it would be a good idea to meet or beat the standards. Anyone else interested in trying to regain one's health in the off season?

SF is doing this too.. though the first day back in the gym ended up with a pulled muscle on his side.  Not fun. 
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pumkinattack

It still stings regardless, but I'm w/Rev.  New program high, our assistants are going to be there for the long haul and still relatively young legacy players who took the 08 MUC game and improved the program over the past two years along with Cragg.  I will say, setting any personnel discussions aside, that this may be the first time I've ever felt like the staff got outcoached.  The fake kicks and some of the other calls were aggressive and smart and I don't feel like they were prepared. 

In the last five they've gotten to play three different top 5 teams (MUC, Wesley & UST), so that's tremendous experience for the staff.  Hopefully they can continue to build from here.  There's a lot to like for next year as most of the defense, including Tyre Coleman and (hopefully fully healthy) Devin Worthington, plus a number of starters that were FR or Sophs this year.  I'm sure Springfield and Union will be improved next year, not sure about RPI.  I felt like the talent around Hermann was some of the least accomplished I've seen since I played against them and the magnitude of dropoff from Hermann to even an average QB will be big, so I don't know about RPI.  After that, I don't know what to make of the rest of the league, but having a fourth competitive team in Springfield will be a boon for the league in the long run for sure. 

And the UST fans on the boards are good guys.  I tried to stir it up a little w/o sounding like a complete manaic like some, but they all just sat back and kindly waited for game day.  Post game, nothing but complimentary.  I was hoping they'd play and steamroll Linfield based on some of their posters, but either way I have to root for UST to win it all now.

ITH radio

We reported on the show last night that DW's injury isn't that serious.  Basically a MCL strain that should be ok in 4-6 wks.
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ITH radio

#46625
Statesmen do return a lot of players.  Biggest losses on D are probably Auriemma and Klindera, but ILB is a position where Hobart has a lot of depth.  Lots of young guys coming back at DT and at DE Coleman will be only a JR, Hyde a SO.

On offense having Strang and Olney graduate is tough on one hand, but Conlan did get a few looks here and there.  Interesting that Bayly will also be a JR so it's possible the Statesmen could have another Strang/Olney combo pack for the next two years again.  Either way QB is probably the biggest question mark for the Statesmen offensively as Webb and Hartigan, both FBs and most of the OL will all be back.  Berkowitz is also back as a JR and some younger TEs (Bennett who got injured early in the season) will get some PT next year.

WR is probably the biggest concern on one hand, but on the other the team will stick with a heavy rushing attack with Webb as the feature back.  There are potentially 9 returning WRs, not including any incoming recruits yet, so there's depth (just not sure of the quality).  Hopefully players like Karbowniczak, Souffrant and/or Robinson can step up and be reliable downfield targets in the few times the Statesmen will need to pass the ball in OOC and/or LL play. 
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mattvsmith

The Rev is happy to see DE Tyre Coleman named defensive player of the year for the East Region.
He's one of the guys that makes me smile a lot when I listen to games. Better yet,
He's only a sophomore. Nice.

Frank Rossi

#46627
The East's search for its first Gagliardi Trophy winner continues, as Noah Joseph (Union LB) and McCallum Foote (Middlebury QB) both are eliminated as the field shrinks to the final four finalists for next week's ceremony for the 20th awarding of the Trophy.

I'd just like to state that Noah is an outstanding player, student and citizen -- the type of guy you should point out to your kids in hopes of them growing up to match even some of his achievements.  He's an absolute beast of a football player, a pre-med student with a tremendous GPA, a heavily involved member of student activities at Union and a greatly involved member of the Schenectady community in the service he's provided over the nearly four school years he's been at Union.  I'm glad at the very least that he was in the running for the Gagliardi Trophy and hope he can take some solace in knowing that being a Top 10 Finalist is truly recognition of his achievements and character.

For those keeping score at home, here's the breakdown of the top four vote-getters since the change 2010, whereby the final four candidates were not based on the one-per-region basis it used to be broken down by prior:

West - 5
North - 3
South - 3
East - 1 (Matt Hoffman, Rowan DE (2010), bone marrow donor that caused him to miss part of season)

And a breakdown of winners by region since 1993:

West - 9
North - 9
South - 1 (Rocky Myers, Wesley S (2004))
East - 0

bman

Quote from: Frank Rossi on December 05, 2012, 12:35:36 AM
The East's search for its first Gagliardi Trophy winner continues, as Noah Joseph (Union LB) and McCallum Foote (Middlebury QB) both are eliminated as the field shrinks to the final four finalists for next week's ceremony for the 20th awarding of the Trophy.

I'd just like to state that Noah is an outstanding player, student and citizen -- the type of guy you should point out to your kids in hopes of them growing up to match even some of his achievements.  He's an absolute beast of a football player, a pre-med student with a tremendous GPA, a heavily involved member of student activities at Union and a greatly involved member of the Schenectady community in the service he's provided over the nearly four school years he's been at Union.  I'm glad at the very least that he was in the running for the Gagliardi Trophy and hope he can take some solace in knowing that being a Top 10 Finalist is truly recognition of his achievements and character.

For those keeping score at home, here's the breakdown of the top four vote-getters since the change 2010, whereby the final four candidates were not based on the one-per-region basis it used to be broken down by prior:

West - 5
North - 3
South - 3
East - 1 (Matt Hoffman, Rowan DE (2010), bone marrow donor that caused him to miss part of season)

And a breakdown of winners by region since 1993:

West - 9
North - 9
South - 1 (Rocky Myers, Wesley S (2004))
East - 0

Frank

To add some more statistical clarity to the winner's region vs. the Stagg bowl etc..., the below represents the percentages of Gag Winners vs. the Stagg Participants

36.84%   7   Times Stagg winner = Gag winner
0.00%   0   Times Stagg Runner Up = Gag Winner
63.16%   12   Times Stagg Winning Region = Gag Winner
26.32%   5   Times Stagg Runner Up Region = Gag Winner
10.53%   2   Times Gag winner unrelated to Stagg Bowl
(Keep in mind that these numbers have not been audited by KPMG)


I know that the Gag comittee conducts a fair evaluation and process, but it sure does seem that the committe is certainly influenced by the performance of the teams, that are getting to the Stagg bowl... Given that only 2 winners in the last 19 years have come from teams unrelated to the Stagg Bowl participants
(Carey bender (Coe) 1994, and Scott Hvistendahl (Augsburg 1998))
It seems that despite the argumentes otherwise, there is a Stagg Bowl bias in effect...

...food for thought

Pat Coleman

At the time we are voting, of course, we don't know who is going to play in the Stagg Bowl, let alone win ...
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jknezek

Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 05, 2012, 03:54:14 PM
At the time we are voting, of course, we don't know who is going to play in the Stagg Bowl, let alone win ...

I don't think it's unreasonable to have these results. The best players are probably on the best teams. Granted the public service component adds some complexity to the voting, but many college kids that are driven, and I'd include D3 football players in that subset without question, are going to have some community service and volunteer interests as well.

Heck, my fraternity required us to do a certain amount of community service a year so legitimately I did tutoring of local h.s. and junior high kids, volunteered as a soccer coach, did habitat for humanity, and a few more things during my time in college. So assuming that most of the public service resumes look similar, we are back to looking at the best players, many of which will be on the best teams.

I sure hope W&L's Luke Heinsohn wins, but I'm pretty darn happy he was nominated and made the final 4. He's had a tremendous career, a great season, and is an all-around good young man. But I doubt he's as good a football player as Wara.

bman

#46631
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 05, 2012, 03:54:14 PM
At the time we are voting, of course, we don't know who is going to play in the Stagg Bowl, let alone win ...

Pat

I inderstand that, and maybe should have clarified better.  I mention "I know that the Gag comittee conducts a fair evaluation and process,"...however, the final four and (or at least the final eight) are pretty much known at that point...
I think it would be safe to assume that its a pretty easy correlation between successful and/or dominant players, and a successful program.

In any case, given that there are 200 plus teams, and only 38 Stagg Bowl participants since 1993, how do you account for the fact that 89.5% of the awards went to those participants?   They should only be at 19% or so...

That's a HUGE statistical anomaly....

bman

Quote from: jknezek on December 05, 2012, 04:01:10 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 05, 2012, 03:54:14 PM
At the time we are voting, of course, we don't know who is going to play in the Stagg Bowl, let alone win ...

I don't think it's unreasonable to have these results. The best players are probably on the best teams.

But you are saying the best players are on the best teams 89% of the time....?

Sorry...I don't buy it...

Frank Rossi

Quote from: bman on December 05, 2012, 05:17:13 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 05, 2012, 03:54:14 PM
At the time we are voting, of course, we don't know who is going to play in the Stagg Bowl, let alone win ...

Pat

I inderstand that, and maybe should have clarified better.  I mention "I know that the Gag comittee conducts a fair evaluation and process,"...however, the final four and (or at least the final eight) are pretty much known at that point...
I think it would be safe to assume that its a pretty easy correlation between successful and/or dominant players, and a successful program.

In any case, given that there are 200 plus teams, and only 38 Stagg Bowl participants in this time, how do you account for the fact that 89.5% of the awards went to those participants?   They should only be at 19% or so...

That's a HUGE statistical anomaly....

Well, I'd look at the anomaly being more that if you selected one region, the odds that the region should win at least once in 20 years with all other things being equal is:

99.683% (315 to 1)

So, obviously something is causing some anomaly there.  Perhaps it IS the Mount Union effect or Stagg/Playoffs effect.  Perhaps James is right that it's a voting imbalance that exists (based on colleges, there's definitely a bias toward the West, North and South compared to the East -- but that doesn't automatically mean that those individuals wouldn't place an East candidate up top on their ballot.  Personally, I think they let the voters rank too deep (1-10 should honestly be no more than 1-4 for a four-member finalist scenario) and maybe find ways to even out the regions a bit in the voting (why not increase to 50 for such a major award, and use the extra 14 spots to compensate for any potential regional overbalance/underbalance?).

I still appreciate the award a lot, but I was a little shocked when I did my research last night that the South and East have had such a lack of success in 20 years.  Maybe Heinsohn can raise the South's tally to 2 on next Wednesday night in Salem.

ITH radio

Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 05, 2012, 03:54:14 PM
At the time we are voting, of course, we don't know who is going to play in the Stagg Bowl, let alone win ...

We write this in jest, but the above statement is kind of "half true" (at least this season and with respect to who's playing since UMU is a pretty big favorite to get back and win the NC).  Also, we just finished a run of seven straight years of the same two teams from the same two regions playing for the NC, so did we really not know who was going to play and/or win (the latter holding less water since most of those UWW_MU games were competitive)?

East fans would have less of a beef if the key to winning was the total popular vote, (the Gagliardi webpage does say "the student-athlete with the highest vote total is named recipient").  If that was truly the case then you could argue that the east simply hasn't been able to do as good a job of "getting out the vote" as well as the other regions. 

However, if read correctly, it is the 35 person committee that ultimately decides the winner with the "popular vote" being aggregated into a "single vote" for how they rank and vote for the candidates ("one collective vote" = 1/36 of the equation), so the fan vote which is nice, really has little to no effect in the grand scheme of things. 

That said it does seems like a stronger case for a "regional and/or playoff bias" (the award does come from a MN/midwest school/club after all) could be made and is fair criticism given the constituency of the group.  Still, it's a football award at heart and the location of D3's best teams (and by extension, football talent) has pretty much been consistent since the mid-90's so it should not surprise many folks that's how it's panned out (and continues to do so).

ITH is on the record w/ Jknezek hoping Heinsohn wins, as it would be nice for him, W&L/South but expects Wara to take it given being the QB from the WIAC.
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