Author Topic: MAC Freedom League  (Read 497021 times)

Offline jmcozenlaw

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Re: MAC Freedom League
« Reply #3420 on: May 28, 2018, 01:30:44 pm »
Thanks for all of the info Dave. I always like to measure what I've heard by mistake or have been told by "insiders"............or "outsiders who know, or say they know, insiders" against somebody like yourself, with both excellent, "inside baseball" knowledge and a history of many go rounds (sp) with these schools and conferences. I know that more than half of what I hear, probably closer to three quarters is akin to people sending up trial balloons or talking about things they'd love to see vs. those things that have next to zero chance of actually happening.

I'd say the things that I feel most confident about given whom I'm hearing it from is (1) the LBC "debacle" (I'll call it that) and you kind of agreed that they've blown it up to this point; (2) Arcadia still being very much in the mix for an eventual move to the Atlantic East..................and if it were to coincide with Manhattanville's move to the Skyline.................MAC moves forward with 8 Commonwealth and 7 Freedom schools, as I have zero clue who would/could make sense as an 8th Freedom team.........and if a Commonwealth school makes a move (see #3), the MAC has 7 and 7 schools.....before the next round of conference roulette; (3) Two (with Arcadia included) current MAC schools WILL NOT be part of the MAC starting with the 2019-2020 or 2020-2021 school years and (4) Of the 16 MAC schools (I've moved Manhattanville out already for this exercise), 11 now have football and 5 do not. Whether part of the MAC, if and when it were to happen, the odds of 2 of those schools adding football is much greater than the odds, in the same calendar year of the Eagles winning the Super Bowl AND the expansion, Vegas Golden Knights making it to the Stanley Cup finals :) Myself, I would make a gentleman's wager that just one of the five schools adds football within the next 5 years. Had somebody told you, five years ago, a couple of years before the official announcement, that Alvernia would be adding football AND now wrestling..........you might have snickered and said to yourself, "sure, good luck with that". I don't know near enough about Title IX regulations to comment about it other than to say if Alvernia can add, let's say, about 150 men in these two sports.......I don't know how this would be an issue for any of the other schools that currently don't have football, especially if they don't have a wrestling program and the 30 or so men on a typical roster.

Sniff around this summer and see what you can find out about MAC football. I get a little confused when I hear, "XYZ can't move to ABC conference because of football". Aren't there a handful of teams every year who are members of one conference for every sport other than football? Wesley is moving from one conference that doesn't play football (as a conference).........to another conference that doesn't play football". 5 of the 10 NJAC football programs play only football in the NJAC. The NJAC might be an exception to the rule, but it seems like a school with a football program could make a move to another conference, that makes more sense for the vast majority of the other programs, and still find a viable home for the football program.

P.S. Let us know when you can speak about the "player elsewhere that could shake things up". I'm intrigued ;)

Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: MAC Freedom League
« Reply #3421 on: May 29, 2018, 02:14:56 pm »
Going to stick with the following below for now...

Sniff around this summer and see what you can find out about MAC football. I get a little confused when I hear, "XYZ can't move to ABC conference because of football". Aren't there a handful of teams every year who are members of one conference for every sport other than football? Wesley is moving from one conference that doesn't play football (as a conference).........to another conference that doesn't play football". 5 of the 10 NJAC football programs play only football in the NJAC. The NJAC might be an exception to the rule, but it seems like a school with a football program could make a move to another conference, that makes more sense for the vast majority of the other programs, and still find a viable home for the football program.

Be careful confusing or conflating different scenarios and situations as being similar - they are not.

Let's start with your Wesley thought. Wesley has NEVER been in the CAC for football (CAC has never had football, though they had a chance once). They have never been a primary member of a conference for football. They have either been independent (for a long time) or an associate member (NJAC). Thus, what they do with their primary moves (PAC to CAC to AEC) would have nothing to do with football nor their relationships with a football conference. They can literally think about the two things separately. What do they do for the majority of their sports; what do they do for football. Moving around their primary conference doesn't have any impact on football and visa versa.

You pointed out half the NJAC are not NJAC members. You will notice also that those associate football members don't have football in their primary conferences. That isn't uncommon for some sports. The NJAC does not sponsor MLAX (they do sponsor WLAX). Just today, three NJAC members were announced as associate members of the CSAC in MLAX. If the NJAC sponsored MLAX, those members would move back to the NJAC for that sport.

Now let's take Stevenson for example. When they were first making conference moves (NEAC to CAC to MAC), they did NOT have football. Thus, not relevant in their decisions (future planning eventually became relevant). Then they added football and joined the MAC. Now... Stevenson basically has all of their sports including football in the MAC. Their decisions about where they will be for a primary conference includes football. Simple conference dynamics and politics would preclude Stevenson from leaving the MAC for any conference that does not have football - it would also preclude Stevenson from leaving the MAC for all sports except football. Why would the MAC want to keep Stevenson as an associate member for football if they have a) lost them from all other sports and b) they don't need them for numbers and scheduling? Stevenson might want to hedge themselves that way, but MAC schools won't want it. You are either with us or without us. Thus, Stevenson moving conferences (if it was even a slight reality) isn't a simple conversation. They have to either look for a conference that has football as well OR look for two conferences - one being for football. Both are very limited in terms of options (remember, you can just choose a conference to move to, that conference needs to be interested and approve you as well).

So yes, there are schools who have football in difference conferences, but you wont find a school which has football which:
- resides in a football conference WITHOUT their football program
- leaves a football conference BUT leaves their football program in the original conference (as an associate member)

I hope that makes sense. That is basically why I feel the idea of Stevenson returning to the CAC is a bit far-fetched. Maybe a dream on some people's part, but not really realistic. Stevenson has very few options when it comes to football: NJAC (nope, not a NJ state school), MAC, independent (not a good option in this day in age), or some conference that is very far away (no chance).

P.S. Let us know when you can speak about the "player elsewhere that could shake things up". I'm intrigued ;)

Enjoy being intrigued... nothing else I can say right now. :)
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Offline jmcozenlaw

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Re: MAC Freedom League
« Reply #3422 on: June 05, 2018, 07:42:46 pm »
Thanks as always for the great info Dave. I'll be interested to hear who gets the FDU Men's job given the names I'm hearing regarding candidates. They made a solid hire with their women's choice. The LBC Men also filled their men's job and while I know squatta about the man, people I've spoken to say that he fits their "mold. Gigs like that are not for everybody. The Faith piece is very real and a huge part of the application and interview process. I laugh when I think about the former DelVal men's coach coaching LBC and making the paint peel off the walls after a bad call by a ref or consecutive turnovers. I don't know if that would have lasted a semester. 'Jesus' was coming out of his mouth quite often.........but not in a way that would have gone over very well. ;) He will turn things around at D-II Millersville. Most of his roster consists of big, athletic kids from Virginia...........untapped turf by the PSAC schools for the most part.

Offline CCHoopster

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Re: MAC Freedom League
« Reply #3423 on: June 12, 2018, 08:08:37 pm »
I'll be interested to hear who gets the FDU Men's job given the names I'm hearing regarding candidates. They made a solid hire with their women's choice.

What names are you hearing? D1 assistant to follow suit with the women's job would make sense... this seems like a job that a current D3 HC could see as a step up coming from certain leagues (NEAC, SKYLINE etc)... They've been a bottom feeder but it's still the MAC which is better than many.

Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: MAC Freedom League
« Reply #3424 on: June 12, 2018, 09:44:37 pm »
I know a few coaches in the area who are looking to move up from where they are ... none of them have discussed FDU. I am not sure FDU is even a step up from others, sadly. I do agree it is a stepping stone for many who may be applying.

I think FDU has a chance to turn the corner towards a better future to be sure... but I am just not sure where administration considers athletics. Confusing signs for years.
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Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: MAC Freedom League
« Reply #3425 on: August 11, 2018, 11:18:07 am »
FYI: MAC has found a replacement for Manhattanville: http://d3sports.com/notables/2018/08/stevens-moving-to-freedom
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director, play-by-play and analyst for D3sports.com. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.