University of New Orleans & D3-D1

Started by PeytonLow, December 13, 2009, 12:55:05 PM

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PeytonLow

Moderator's note:  The UNO topics on the Message Boards have been merged for sake of continuity. Thanks to Peyton Low for starting the discussion with the topic entitled "UNO's Pasternak Calls D-III 'glorified intramural team'."  --Ralph Turner



http://www.wwltv.com/news/UNO-asks-to-drop-athletics-to-NCAA-Div-III-79076162.html

...On Friday, The LSU Board of Supervisors, which governs the university, gave the okay for UNO to pursue plans to downsize its athletic program by dropping from an NCAA Division 1 school to a Division 3. The financial savings is estimated at $2.5 million each year.

"Division 3 is a glorified intramural team," said Joe Pasternak, Head Coach for the UNO Men's Basketball team. "So it will dramatically change, I think, how the university will be looked upon."

One of the biggest changes will be a halt on all athletic scholarships--troubling news for groups like the men's swimming and diving team, where about two thirds are either from out of state or out of country. Phillip Graeter is a 19 year old freshman from Germany and says the reason he and many of his fellow teammates came to UNO was because of athletic scholarships.

smedindy

Mr. Pasternak, I believe, will get some angry retorts from this community and others. Will he care? Doubt it. D-3 coaches don't get big time shoe deals and company cars. But if you're in for coaching for that, you need to re-assess, IMHO.

Also, the perception of UNO is basically a middling member of a middling conference that has no cache nationally nor any real reason to be in D-1.

Mr. Ypsi

I wonder if Coach Pasternak will revise his attitude in time to avoid going 3-22 his first season in D3?! :D

Ralph Turner

#3
Quote from: smedindy on December 13, 2009, 01:49:26 PM
Mr. Pasternak, I believe, will get some angry retorts from this community and others. Will he care? Doubt it. D-3 coaches don't get big time shoe deals and company cars. But if you're in for coaching for that, you need to re-assess, IMHO.

Also, the perception of UNO is basically a middling member of a middling conference that has no cache nationally nor any real reason to be in D-1.

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 13, 2009, 01:51:53 PM
I wonder if Coach Pasternak will revise his attitude in time to avoid going 3-22 his first season in D3?! :D

I seriously doubt the Coach Pasternak will still be at UNO when the Privateers are in D-III.

Ralph Turner

#4
Background on the UNO situation

http://www.nola.com/uno/index.ssf/2009/11/uno_athletics_will_be_what_its.html

QuoteUNO's athletics support has been dwindling for a while; Hurricane Katrina only accelerated and exacerbated the problem. Donations haven't poured in, state budget cuts in education affected UNO more adversely than other universities and the student body just hasn't been all that interested in subsidizing the athletics department - it voted down a measure to increase student fees in an effort to offset the budget cuts.




http://www.nola.com/uno/index.ssf/2009/11/uno_athletics_will_be_what_its.html

QuoteAll things considered - decreased student population  (from 17,000 pre-Katrina to 11,000), lack of funds (due to Louisiana Budget crunch), dismal attendance - investigating a move to D-III certainly seems prudent.

(My comments in italics)




http://www.nola.com/uno/index.ssf/2009/11/uno_chancellor_tim_ryan_cites.html

Quote
The athletic program receives about $3.3 million for the fiscal year from the student athletic fund. The athletic department was receiving more than $5 million per fiscal year prior to Katrina. Also with the budget cuts implemented in July,  the university was forced to eliminate all general-fund support to the athletic program.
...

The cost cutting involved in dropping to Division III is dramatic. According to NCAA.org,  the average total expenses during the 2006-2007 fiscal year for a Division III school with a football program is nearly $2.5 million,  and $1.9 million without football. After the student body voted against an athletics fee increase in late April,  the university banked on a lucrative check from the Wick Carey estate,  a donation from Hornets owner George Shinn and a committee of local leaders spearheaded by Shinn to help drive contributions.

The efforts haven't had the effect the university anticipated. Ryan said the dollar figure of the Wick Carey estate,  in which one-third of the estate was left to the UNO athletic program,  was widely exaggerated. He said the rumors of the estate being worth $150 million was inaccurate. The total amount would be somewhere near $25 million,  meaning UNO would receive around $8 million.


...Birmingham Southern was the first this decade to drop from Division I to Division III in 2006. Other schools to move from Division I to Division III were Brooklyn College in 1998,  Utica in 1988,  New York University in 1984 and Catholic in 1981. Centenary in Shreveport will complete the moving process in 2012.

(I think that Centenary will begin the four-year re-classification process in fall 2011 due to obligations in the Summit League.)




http://www.nola.com/uno/index.ssf/2009/11/uno_thinking_of_moving_athleti.html

Quote
The release said an application to make the switch would be due to the NCAA by May 15 to start the transformation process in the fall of 2010.




More archives from nola.com

http://www.nola.com/uno/index.ssf/2009/11/index.html

Warren Thompson

Sometimes it takes a disaster to effect common sense and reason ....   ;)

frank uible

Mr. Pasternak, the academics for most inter-collegiate basketball players at most DI colleges is at best merely glorified junior high school.

sunny

Quote from: frank uible on December 13, 2009, 05:39:52 PM
Mr. Pasternak, the academics for most inter-collegiate basketball players at most DI colleges is at best merely glorified junior high school.

Win.

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)


So has he told us why he didn't schedule any "glorified intramural" teams on his schedule?
Lead Columnist for D3hoops.com
@ryanalanscott just about anywhere

Ralph Turner

#9
LSU board okays UNO move to NCAA Division III

Pull quote...


Quote
...
"Division III fits the academic mission of the university," said Ryan. "Division III allows for participation, it allows for a large number of sports, it allows for sports that are popular. Sports like football and soccer, which we can't even think about doing under Division I."

In order to complete the move to D-III in time, UNO had to give notice to the Sunbelt Conference by the end of December, or it would owe a $500,000 fine. Ryan said he also wanted to give maximum time to students currently on athletic scholarship to consider transferring to other schools.

When UNO leaves the Sun Belt Conference, and South Alabama adds varsity football, the Sun Belt becomes a 12-member conference with everyone except University of Denver and University of Arkansas Little Rock as football playing members.

MUCheats

Quote from: frank uible on December 13, 2009, 05:39:52 PM
Mr. Pasternak, the academics for most inter-collegiate basketball players at most DI colleges is at best merely glorified junior high school.

Great point.  Over the past few days ESPN has done features on the athletic programs at schools like Florida State and Miami (FL).  During the course of these shows, it becomes blatantly obvious to the viewer that many of the top Division I schools are seriously bending their academic requirements for athletes in pursuit of winning football and basketball teams.  Undoubtedly that happens to some degree with a few schools in Division III, but not to the rampant extent seen in Division I. 

HSCTiger74

Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 14, 2009, 09:24:15 PM
LSU board okays UNO move to NCAA Division III

Pull quote...


Quote
...
"Division III fits the academic mission of the university," said Ryan. "Division III allows for participation, it allows for a large number of sports, it allows for sports that are popular. Sports like football and soccer, which we can't even think about doing under Division I."

In order to complete the move to D-III in time, UNO had to give notice to the Sunbelt Conference by the end of December, or it would owe a $500,000 fine. Ryan said he also wanted to give maximum time to students currently on athletic scholarship to consider transferring to other schools.

When UNO leaves the Sun Belt Conference, and South Alabama adds varsity football, the Sun Belt becomes a 12-member conference with everyone except University of Denver and University of Arkansas Little Rock as football playing members.

While they may still be in the process of upgrading I think it can safely be said that South Alabama already has varsity football, as Huntingdon can confirm.
TANSTAAFL

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

Quote from: CarrollStreaks on December 14, 2009, 10:01:13 PM
Quote from: frank uible on December 13, 2009, 05:39:52 PM
Mr. Pasternak, the academics for most inter-collegiate basketball players at most DI colleges is at best merely glorified junior high school.

Great point.  Over the past few days ESPN has done features on the athletic programs at schools like Florida State and Miami (FL).  During the course of these shows, it becomes blatantly obvious to the viewer that many of the top Division I schools are seriously bending their academic requirements for athletes in pursuit of winning football and basketball teams.  Undoubtedly that happens to some degree with a few schools in Division III, but not to the rampant extent seen in Division I. 

I don't have a problem with schools bending admissions requirements for certain students, the real problem is then bending the actual academic requirements when they arrive.

If a kid who ordinarily would not be able to get a chance at college can because of his athletic ability, I think that's something to be celebrated, but the athletic department then needs to make sure he has the help to succeed, not evade the academic process.
Lead Columnist for D3hoops.com
@ryanalanscott just about anywhere

Ralph Turner

UNO -- Playing in Limbo

Pull Quote...

Quote...There already have been bumps in the Division-III road for UNO. Sources familiar with the situation said the school informally has been denied acceptance into at least two Division III conferences during its decision-making process.

MUCheats

Quote from: Hoops Fan on December 15, 2009, 12:43:42 PM
Quote from: CarrollStreaks on December 14, 2009, 10:01:13 PM
Quote from: frank uible on December 13, 2009, 05:39:52 PM
Mr. Pasternak, the academics for most inter-collegiate basketball players at most DI colleges is at best merely glorified junior high school.

Great point.  Over the past few days ESPN has done features on the athletic programs at schools like Florida State and Miami (FL).  During the course of these shows, it becomes blatantly obvious to the viewer that many of the top Division I schools are seriously bending their academic requirements for athletes in pursuit of winning football and basketball teams.  Undoubtedly that happens to some degree with a few schools in Division III, but not to the rampant extent seen in Division I. 

I don't have a problem with schools bending admissions requirements for certain students, the real problem is then bending the actual academic requirements when they arrive.

If a kid who ordinarily would not be able to get a chance at college can because of his athletic ability, I think that's something to be celebrated, but the athletic department then needs to make sure he has the help to succeed, not evade the academic process.

I waiver a bit on that, because I agree, it's great that the athletic talents of some can land them a chance at college.  However when we're talking about underqualified kids attending some of our country's most prestigious universities, I think that's a problem (not to mention a recipe for disaster).

There are stories coming out of Florida State that left me needing to pick my jaw up from the floor.  But that's not to pick on FSU, because there's no doubt that this stuff is happening at schools throughout Division I.