BB: CCIW: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

Started by RedmenFB44, January 05, 2006, 12:14:15 PM

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Gregory Sager

If I recall correctly, the early talk here in this room was that this was likely to be the end result of the season: A comparatively weak CCIW overall, with nobody from the league garnering any success in the postseason.

I know that I wasn't overly impressed by any of the teams in this league this spring, and I saw them all. But I'm just one observer.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

BigPoppa

The CCIW has slipped a few notches in the past ten years (Ignore the outlier of IWU in 2010). Guessing that much of it has to do with rising tuitions at private schools which really handcuffs the CCIW schools when recruiting head-to-head with public school or much less expensive private school in the Midwest. I'd be interested to see how tuition differs not only between CCIW schools and public schools, but also compared to other regional privates schools in the IIAC, MWC and even the SLIAC.
Baseball is not a game that builds character, it is a game that reveals it.

AndOne

Seems a little, let's say, strange that Augie's Greg Wallace was named CCIW Coach of the Year while North Central's Ed Mathey was ignored. Not that Wallace's accomplishment this season wasn't noteworthy, but Augie was picked to win the conference while NCC was picked to finish fourth, and received 17 less points in the pre-season poll than did Augie. The question then becomes who did more with less, and who actually exceeded expectations rather than just meeting them in light of the fact that predicted fourth place finisher NCC finished tied atop the standings with the predicted conference champ. Although AC held a 2-1 advantage over NCC in conference play, it's the entire regular season that is taken into consideration for conference honors. And the award becomes even more of a question when you consider Mathey was named D3baseball Central Region Coach of the Year over Wallace. Mathey was Regional COY, but Wallace was conference COY?  ???

Would it not have been appropriate to name Wallace and Mathey as CO CCIW CoacheS of the Year?

The other goofy point here is the inconsistency of the CCIW in awarding coaching honors. In basketball the conference winning coach is automatically named COY. This in itself is stupid as it does not recognize a coach who leads his predicted fourth or fifth place finisher to second place, but says the COY is automatically the guy who leads his predicted first place team to that first place finish.
However, in basketball, evidently unlike baseball, if two or more teams finish tied for first, BOTH (all) the coaches are named CO Coaches of the Year. And on both the women's basketball side and in football, I believe the award is voted on by the head coaches. Shouldn't there be some consistency within the conference as far as how the conference COY is determined?
It would appear this is a point that needs some attention by the conference administration.




BigPoppa

My assumption is that administrators have more on their plates than how coach's are awarded. It's usually up to the sports coaches to decide how to award it.
Baseball is not a game that builds character, it is a game that reveals it.

Gregory Sager

Quote from: AndOne on May 26, 2016, 02:23:36 PM
Seems a little, let's say, strange that Augie's Greg Wallace was named CCIW Coach of the Year while North Central's Ed Mathey was ignored. Not that Wallace's accomplishment this season wasn't noteworthy, but Augie was picked to win the conference while NCC was picked to finish fourth, and received 17 less points in the pre-season poll than did Augie. The question then becomes who did more with less, and who actually exceeded expectations rather than just meeting them in light of the fact that predicted fourth place finisher NCC finished tied atop the standings with the predicted conference champ. Although AC held a 2-1 advantage over NCC in conference play, it's the entire regular season that is taken into consideration for conference honors. And the award becomes even more of a question when you consider Mathey was named D3baseball Central Region Coach of the Year over Wallace. Mathey was Regional COY, but Wallace was conference COY?  ???

Would it not have been appropriate to name Wallace and Mathey as CO CCIW CoacheS of the Year?

Really, Mark? Your first-ever post in this room, and it's to gripe about the North Central coach being short-changed? Ten years and 3,162 posts in the CCIW basketball room, another 667 posts in the CCIW football room, and only now in the wake of a perceived institutional slight to NCC do you finally show up in this room? Do you even attend CCIW baseball games?

Pay a little attention to CCIW baseball and actually post here once in awhile, and perhaps you'll have some credibility on this and other CCIW-baseball-related topics.

Quote from: AndOne on May 26, 2016, 02:23:36 PMThe other goofy point here is the inconsistency of the CCIW in awarding coaching honors. In basketball the conference winning coach is automatically named COY. This in itself is stupid as it does not recognize a coach who leads his predicted fourth or fifth place finisher to second place, but says the COY is automatically the guy who leads his predicted first place team to that first place finish.
However, in basketball, evidently unlike baseball, if two or more teams finish tied for first, BOTH (all) the coaches are named CO Coaches of the Year. And on both the women's basketball side and in football, I believe the award is voted on by the head coaches. Shouldn't there be some consistency within the conference as far as how the conference COY is determined?
It would appear this is a point that needs some attention by the conference administration.

As Big Poppa said, the coaches run their own respective shows in the CCIW with regard to awards. It's always been that way, and I can only imagine the brouhaha it would cause if the league took the awards out of the hands of the coaches. Yes, I agree that the way that the men's basketball coaches do it is stupid, but it's their time-honored prerogative to do it that way. If the league office made them conform to the awards-selection method that another sport uses, the league office would in essence be favoring one sport over another. I doubt that Chris and Mike feel that they need to take on that headache.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

Augie6

Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 26, 2016, 04:27:50 PM
Quote from: AndOne on May 26, 2016, 02:23:36 PM
Seems a little, let's say, strange that Augie's Greg Wallace was named CCIW Coach of the Year while North Central's Ed Mathey was ignored. Not that Wallace's accomplishment this season wasn't noteworthy, but Augie was picked to win the conference while NCC was picked to finish fourth, and received 17 less points in the pre-season poll than did Augie. The question then becomes who did more with less, and who actually exceeded expectations rather than just meeting them in light of the fact that predicted fourth place finisher NCC finished tied atop the standings with the predicted conference champ. Although AC held a 2-1 advantage over NCC in conference play, it's the entire regular season that is taken into consideration for conference honors. And the award becomes even more of a question when you consider Mathey was named D3baseball Central Region Coach of the Year over Wallace. Mathey was Regional COY, but Wallace was conference COY?  ???

Would it not have been appropriate to name Wallace and Mathey as CO CCIW CoacheS of the Year?

Really, Mark? Your first-ever post in this room, and it's to gripe about the North Central coach being short-changed? Ten years and 3,162 posts in the CCIW basketball room, another 667 posts in the CCIW football room, and only now in the wake of a perceived institutional slight to NCC do you finally show up in this room? Do you even attend CCIW baseball games?

Pay a little attention to CCIW baseball and actually post here once in awhile, and perhaps you'll have some credibility on this and other CCIW-baseball-related topics


GS -  Couldn't agree more. 

AndOne - If you're going to complain about something like this, at least get your facts straight.  Augie was not picked to finish 1st in the CCIW this year in the coaches poll, Carthage was.  Augie was actually picked to finish 5th.  So Greg Wallace being named as coach of the year seems absolutely correct.
Augie Football:  CCIW Champions:  1949-66-68-75-81-82-83-84-85-86-87-88-90-91-93-94-97-99-01-05-06     NCAA Champions:  1983-84-85-86

mwunder

Quote from: Augie6 on May 27, 2016, 10:50:57 AM

AndOne - If you're going to complain about something like this, at least get your facts straight.  Augie was not picked to finish 1st in the CCIW this year in the coaches poll, Carthage was.  Augie was actually picked to finish 5th.  So Greg Wallace being named as coach of the year seems absolutely correct.

Augie6 droppin facts...

https://athletics.carthage.edu/news/2016/2/10/Baseball_0210160947.aspx?path=baseball

AndOne

Quote from: mwunder on May 27, 2016, 12:12:40 PM
Quote from: Augie6 on May 27, 2016, 10:50:57 AM

AndOne - If you're going to complain about something like this, at least get your facts straight.  Augie was not picked to finish 1st in the CCIW this year in the coaches poll, Carthage was.  Augie was actually picked to finish 5th.  So Greg Wallace being named as coach of the year seems absolutely correct.

Augie6 droppin facts...

[/i]path=baseball]https://athletics.carthage.edu/news/2016/2/10/Baseball_0210160947.aspx?path=baseball

Augie6-

Thank you for waking me up. I was on the CCIW Baseball site and paged back in the "Archived Stories" section. However, in my haste, I went right past this season's pre-season poll to the 2015 poll. Just totally f**ked it up. No ifs, ands, or buts.  :(
Therefore, in keeping with my theory of who most exceeds expectations, the Augie coach absolutely deserved the COY award. I don't think it could have been classified as a travesty had the NCC coach been named CO-COY, but if the baseball rules allow for a coach whose team ties for the conference championship to be excluded, then the right coach won!

What I still think is screwy is that there appears to be several different ways that the COY is awarded across various sports all within the same conference. JMHO which I, as is everyone else, am certainly entitled to despite whatever even someone who might well be looked upon as the dean of CCIW posters, might think.

I think the reason this site and its associated rooms were corrected is for the dissemination of facts and opinions, and discussions about D3 in general, and in here, about the CCIW specifically. Furthermore, whether its someone's first or 500th post in a certain room, nobody needs to be scolded for their opinion even though it may differ from the opinion of a so called expert or veteran in that particular room. Especially, not when the new to that room poster is a veteran D3Sports poster with over 4,200 posts in other rooms. If the post is profane or obviously made to incite, then sure. But that is not what happened in this case. Some people, with the possible exception of the web site creator, need to realize and remember that this is not their eminent domain no matter how voluminous, insightful, and/or valuable their contributions have been.

Gregory Sager

Quote from: AndOne on May 28, 2016, 06:35:55 PMWhat I still think is screwy is that there appears to be several different ways that the COY is awarded across various sports all within the same conference. JMHO which I, as is everyone else, am certainly entitled to despite whatever even someone who might well be looked upon as the dean of CCIW posters, might think.

The coaches are the ones who are the recipients of these awards, and therefore I think that they should be the ones who have the final word on how these awards are apportioned. If there was a big hue-and-cry among them about the fact that they don't all dole out the COY in the same manner from one sport to another, then it wouldn't bother me if the process was standardized by the league to make every sport conform to one universal COY selection method. As I said, I would be more than happy to see the men's basketball coaches do it differently than they do now. But, since there is no such hue-and-cry among the coaches, I just don't see any reason why the league office should needlessly court the ire of the men and women with the dry-erase boards and whistles whose hard work makes this league possible.

Quote from: AndOne on May 28, 2016, 06:35:55 PMI think the reason this site and its associated rooms were corrected is for the dissemination of facts and opinions, and discussions about D3 in general, and in here, about the CCIW specifically. Furthermore, whether its someone's first or 500th post in a certain room, nobody needs to be scolded for their opinion even though it may differ from the opinion of a so called expert or veteran in that particular room. Especially, not when the new to that room poster is a veteran D3Sports poster with over 4,200 posts in other rooms. If the post is profane or obviously made to incite, then sure. But that is not what happened in this case. Some people, with the possible exception of the web site creator, need to realize and remember that this is not their eminent domain no matter how voluminous, insightful, and/or valuable their contributions have been.

Neither I nor anybody else has claimed that this particular room is anyone's "eminent domain". Nor did I scold you over your opinion, about which I didn't comment at all. Augie6 scolded you about your opinion, since you didn't have your facts straight, but I didn't say anything at all about this year's baseball COY.

It's certainly no crime that you had never posted here before, and of course there's no reason why you can't start posting here now. Everybody's gotta start off with their first post, right? My complaint was that it wasn't baseball-related. It was basically an institutionally-motivated rant by someone who is a fan of the other teams of the institution in question. Had there been a CCIW volleyball room in which to do so, you could've (and probably would've ;)) ranted about the North Central volleyball coach getting ripped off in the COY selection process, or the men's golf coach, or the women's tennis coach, if any one of them had been in this situation. In other words, it looked like a drive-by rather than an honest-to-goodness post about CCIW baseball (and we could use an NCC baseball fan or two to participate regularly in here), which is what set me off.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

AndOne

Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 28, 2016, 07:09:56 PM

Neither I nor anybody else has claimed that this particular room is anyone's "eminent domain". Nor did I scold you over your opinion, about which I didn't comment at all.
It's certainly no crime that you had never posted here before, and of course there's no reason why you can't start posting here now. Everybody's gotta start off with their first post, right? My complaint was that it wasn't baseball-related. It was basically an institutionally-motivated rant by someone who is a fan of the other teams of the institution in question. Had there been a CCIW volleyball room in which to do so, you could've (and probably would've ;)) ranted about the North Central volleyball coach getting ripped off in the COY selection process, or the men's golf coach, or the women's tennis coach, if any one of them had been in this situation. In other words, it looked like a drive-by rather than an honest-to-goodness post about CCIW baseball (and we could use an NCC baseball fan or two to participate regularly in here), which is what set me off.

Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 26, 2016, 04:27:50 PM

Really, Mark? Your first-ever post in this room, and it's to gripe about the North Central coach being short-changed? Ten years and 3,162 posts in the CCIW basketball room, another 667 posts in the CCIW football room, and only now in the wake of a perceived institutional slight to NCC do you finally show up in this room? Do you even attend CCIW baseball games?

Pay a little attention to CCIW baseball and actually post here once in awhile, and perhaps you'll have some credibility on this and other CCIW-baseball-related topics.

Sorry, Greg, but I don't know how "really Mark," "your first ever," "and its to gripe about................," "only now.............do you show up," "do you even attend"?, and "perhaps you'll have some credibility" could have been interpreted as anything other than scolding. Especially when I felt a baseball coach not being selected for conference baseball COY was certainly related to baseball, and should be posted about in the baseball room.
While you might not agree with my train of thought, I assure you i didn't think of or approach the subject as a "drive by," and felt that the post was not only about baseball, but was also an honest expression of my feelings on the subject. I respect your right to defer concurrence. I just didn't expect it to be in such a contentious manner. Didn't say I was right or wrong with regard to the doing more with less theory, (obviously I used the wrong year's numbers as Augie6 observed). Just wanted to present an opinion which I thought was the idea behind creation of the room(s). Thats all.

Gregory Sager

Quote from: AndOne on May 28, 2016, 10:19:33 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 28, 2016, 07:09:56 PM

Neither I nor anybody else has claimed that this particular room is anyone's "eminent domain". Nor did I scold you over your opinion, about which I didn't comment at all.
It's certainly no crime that you had never posted here before, and of course there's no reason why you can't start posting here now. Everybody's gotta start off with their first post, right? My complaint was that it wasn't baseball-related. It was basically an institutionally-motivated rant by someone who is a fan of the other teams of the institution in question. Had there been a CCIW volleyball room in which to do so, you could've (and probably would've ;)) ranted about the North Central volleyball coach getting ripped off in the COY selection process, or the men's golf coach, or the women's tennis coach, if any one of them had been in this situation. In other words, it looked like a drive-by rather than an honest-to-goodness post about CCIW baseball (and we could use an NCC baseball fan or two to participate regularly in here), which is what set me off.

Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 26, 2016, 04:27:50 PM

Really, Mark? Your first-ever post in this room, and it's to gripe about the North Central coach being short-changed? Ten years and 3,162 posts in the CCIW basketball room, another 667 posts in the CCIW football room, and only now in the wake of a perceived institutional slight to NCC do you finally show up in this room? Do you even attend CCIW baseball games?

Pay a little attention to CCIW baseball and actually post here once in awhile, and perhaps you'll have some credibility on this and other CCIW-baseball-related topics.

Sorry, Greg, but I don't know how "really Mark," "your first ever," "and its to gripe about................," "only now.............do you show up," "do you even attend"?, and "perhaps you'll have some credibility" could have been interpreted as anything other than scolding.

Oh, it was a scolding for sure, and I didn't say that it wasn't. My point was that it wasn't a scolding about your opinion. It was a scolding about your choice of topic, as seen in the context of your previous lack of participation in this room. As I said before, I made no comment whatsoever about your opinion regarding the choice of the coaches for the 2016 baseball COY award.

Quote from: AndOne on May 28, 2016, 10:19:33 PMEspecially when I felt a baseball coach not being selected for conference baseball COY was certainly related to baseball, and should be posted about in the baseball room.

It wasn't a baseball post, though. It was a post about conference administration, vis-a-vis the selection of conference awards. Baseball posts involve things like, you know, home runs and sliders and double plays and who's got the best pitching this year and who's recruiting whom and which team's hitting has improved the most and why the heck can't Chuck shut up already about that stupid 2010 postseason. ;)

And that's the whole point of it all. As a post about conference administration it was strictly generic. As I said, it could've been about any sport ... and in this case it was about a sport in which you had shown no prior interest in terms of your voluminous posting record on d3boards.com.

It could've easily been a post about baseball if it had contained specifics regarding the play of the Cardinals this season under Ed Mathey -- their pitching, their hitting, their fielding, any sort of reference to metrics or specific game results -- or, conversely, to the play of Augie under Greg Wallace as a means to help prove your point. Instead, as you yourself admitted, it was a post based upon a glance at the preseason poll (the wrong one, in this case) in the light of your prior knowledge that NCC and Augie shared the baseball title, a fact of which I'm sure anyone who follows any NCC sport is aware by now. Your post showed no indication that you either knew the particulars of North Central's performance this baseball season, or cared to.

Quote from: AndOne on May 28, 2016, 10:19:33 PMWhile you might not agree with my train of thought, I assure you i didn't think of or approach the subject as a "drive by," and felt that the post was not only about baseball, but was also an honest expression of my feelings on the subject. I respect your right to defer concurrence. I just didn't expect it to be in such a contentious manner. Didn't say I was right or wrong with regard to the doing more with less theory, (obviously I used the wrong year's numbers as Augie6 observed). Just wanted to present an opinion which I thought was the idea behind creation of the room(s). Thats all.

Look at it from our point of view, Mark. By the standards of the CCIW men's basketball room and the CCIW football room, this room is drastically underrepresented both in terms of the number of posts and the number of participants. For most of the season, it's a four-way conversation between myself, Chuck, Big Poppa, and Mr. B, with an occasional chime-in from mwunder, Augie6, and a Wheaton guy or two. It's very discouraging. I can't remember the last time we had anybody rep North Central in here, and it's not as though NCC has been chopped liver in terms of CCIW baseball competitiveness over the past few seasons.

Then you drop in from out of nowhere with a big complaint about this year's COY award. It's a post with zero baseball content. It rehashes a subject -- the methodology of COY selections in various CCIW sports -- about which you've waxed eloquent in the men's basketball room on more than one occasion. As I said, I could easily see you doing this about any sport, particularly if it's a North Central coach or coaching staff that appears to be getting the shaft, regardless of whether or not you have any interest whatsoever in that sport, given your proclivities to argue this topic and your loyalties as an NCC fan. Can you see, then, why this looked like a drive-by?

And even now we're not discussing CCIW baseball. We've gone from a rant about CCIW administration to an argument about scolding. ::)
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

BigPoppa

Not really a CCIW story, but Carthage Coach Augie Schmidt's nephew, Gavin Lux-SS, was selected in the first round of the MLB Draft yesterday by the Dodgers. He has committed to Arizona State but this may change his plans.
Baseball is not a game that builds character, it is a game that reveals it.

Captain_Joe08

Quote from: BigPoppa on June 10, 2016, 09:30:45 AM
Not really a CCIW story, but Carthage Coach Augie Schmidt's nephew, Gavin Lux-SS, was selected in the first round of the MLB Draft yesterday by the Dodgers. He has committed to Arizona State but this may change his plans.

Lux out of Kenosha Indian Trail High School, became the first WI prep player to be drafted in the first round since 1979 and the first Wisconsin player to be drafted altogether in the first round since 1988.
Once a Warrior always a Warrior.
WLC Men's Tennis (2014 NACC Tournament Champs)
2014 MIAA Football Pick 'Em Champ
2014 WIAC Football Pick 'Em Regular Season Co-Champ
2014 National Confidence Playoff Champion
Milwaukee Brewers: 2018 NL Central Champions

Go Cards

New to this board so will apologize up front if i am not doing things correctly so fill me in if that isn't the case please.

Hopefully can be a regular who will chime in on NCC baseball and CCIW baseball as well. 

Was wondering (saw some conversation in the WIAC forum) if anyone has any insight as far as recruits for next years teams yet?  Also who may be the front runners in the conference and players to watch.  Other question would be with Carroll rejoining next year creates an imbalance of odd number of teams so what will a conference schedule look like - anyone see anything yet?

I started doing some searching on which players via the web have said they are going to NCC to play baseball but waiting to see before posting any names if you all have better sites to search for information like this or if it is ever discussed on the forum.

Was a fun season and unexpected for NC this last year and i followed along on the postings but wanted to wait a while to learn and get my feet wet following along before chiming in.  North Central will have a lot to return being so young this last year but pitching is always needed.  Also the senior leadership on the team, from what i've heard and read in the articles posted by North Central was outstanding.

Seems like a lot of teams will be returning good portions of their starters as well in the conference.

Jim Dixon

Quote from: Go Cards on June 24, 2016, 01:45:51 PM
New to this board so will apologize up front if i am not doing things correctly so fill me in if that isn't the case please.

Hopefully can be a regular who will chime in on NCC baseball and CCIW baseball as well. 


Welcome to the boards Go Cards.