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Division III basketball (Posting Up) => Men's Basketball => Multi-Regional Topics => Topic started by: Ralph Turner on February 25, 2018, 07:33:27 PM

Title: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 25, 2018, 07:33:27 PM
Let's start the National Tournament board.

There is a great Hoopsville show going now.  For Newbies, the Mock Selection by D-Mack, Titan Q and Hoops Fan is very instructive the nature of the selection process.

My first thought on the bracketing.

Schreiner (SCAC Pool A bid) is within 500 miles of both ETBU (if ETBU gets a Pool C) and Sul Ross State.

If they put in a bid to host, then only one team would need to be flown to that bracket, unless LeTourneau gets off the table (almost last) and have a complete Texas bracket.

I am assuming 2 flights to Washington state in another bracket.


According the Hoopsville, Hobart came off the table for bid #21.  So Sul Ross State, probably the #2 ranked team in the South, gets flown somewhere!
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 25, 2018, 07:48:54 PM
I'll be interested to see how the NCAA schedules Yeshiva's inaugural appearance in The Big Horah. The Maccabees cannot play or travel between Friday sundown and Saturday sundown.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 25, 2018, 07:59:18 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on February 25, 2018, 07:48:54 PM
I'll be interested to see how the NCAA schedules Yeshiva's inaugural appearance in The Big Horah. The Maccabees cannot play or travel between Friday sundown and Saturday sundown.

Interesting question.  They do accommodate the schools that will not play on Sundays.  (And, fortunately, during basketball season sundown comes pretty early! ;))  Since I'm 69, I somehow doubt I'll live long enough to see the actual real-life resolution of your question. ;)

On the other hand, Yeshiva has been pretty darn close to copping a bid the last few years, so we may get an answer sooner than I had expected.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: augie77 on February 25, 2018, 08:01:27 PM
Yeshiva is Pool A.  They're in!
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: augie77 on February 25, 2018, 08:04:20 PM
Assuming they're assigned to a close by regional, they might be able to travel after sunset on Saturday for a late semi-final tilt. 9:00 pm, perhaps?.  Championship would need to be scheduled for Sunday. 
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on February 25, 2018, 08:40:33 PM
Quote from: augie77 on February 25, 2018, 08:04:20 PM
Assuming they're assigned to a close by regional, they might be able to travel after sunset on Saturday for a late semi-final tilt. 9:00 pm, perhaps?.  Championship would need to be scheduled for Sunday.

Couldn't Yeshiva travel Friday during the day (maybe even get a practice in) and then play the late Semifinal game on Saturday (8pm tip-off would be well after sunset) with the second round game Sunday?
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 25, 2018, 08:46:20 PM
Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on February 25, 2018, 08:40:33 PM
Quote from: augie77 on February 25, 2018, 08:04:20 PM
Assuming they're assigned to a close by regional, they might be able to travel after sunset on Saturday for a late semi-final tilt. 9:00 pm, perhaps?.  Championship would need to be scheduled for Sunday.

Couldn't Yeshiva travel Friday during the day (maybe even get a practice in) and then play the late Semifinal game on Saturday (8pm tip-off would be well after sunset) with the second round game Sunday?
As I understand it, they could play a 1 pm Friday semifinal and then an 8pm final on Saturday.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 25, 2018, 09:56:16 PM
When is the Men's bracket announced tomorrow morning?
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Fifth and Putnam on February 25, 2018, 10:03:11 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 25, 2018, 09:56:16 PM
When is the Men's bracket announced tomorrow morning?

12:30 PM EST on NCAA.com.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: kiko on February 25, 2018, 10:17:31 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 25, 2018, 08:46:20 PM
Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on February 25, 2018, 08:40:33 PM
Quote from: augie77 on February 25, 2018, 08:04:20 PM
Assuming they're assigned to a close by regional, they might be able to travel after sunset on Saturday for a late semi-final tilt. 9:00 pm, perhaps?.  Championship would need to be scheduled for Sunday.

Couldn't Yeshiva travel Friday during the day (maybe even get a practice in) and then play the late Semifinal game on Saturday (8pm tip-off would be well after sunset) with the second round game Sunday?
As I understand it, they could play a 1 pm Friday semifinal and then an 8pm final on Saturday.

This is the most likely scenario IMO.  I would be surprised if a second-round game were pushed to Sunday, for three reasons:

- While there are no games on Sunday, this is when hosts are determined for the following weekend.  I doubt the NCAA will let one school's needs disrupt a broader set of activities.
- Pushing this game but not those in adjacent pods to Sunday would create opportunities for extra prep and scouting by schools in adjacent portions of the bracket.  That's not fair to Yeshiva -- or to a podmate who beats them.
- Were Yeshiva to lose on Friday, there is no need to adjust scheduling for the second round game... and there would be a clear desire to lock in a date and time for this game before Round 1 happens, so the four schools in the pod have clear visibility to the schedule and can plan accordingly.

I would expect the poobahs to accommodate Yeshiva's needs in a manner that creates as narrow of a disruption on the broader tournament as possible.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 25, 2018, 10:28:32 PM
Quote from: Fifth and Putnam on February 25, 2018, 10:03:11 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 25, 2018, 09:56:16 PM
When is the Men's bracket announced tomorrow morning?

12:30 PM EST on NCAA.com.

OK, thanks, I thought the broadcasters on the Whitman/Whitworth game said 9:30...which I suppose would be THEIR time, and also I thought Hoopsville said 9:30.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2018, 10:38:30 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 25, 2018, 10:28:32 PM
Quote from: Fifth and Putnam on February 25, 2018, 10:03:11 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 25, 2018, 09:56:16 PM
When is the Men's bracket announced tomorrow morning?

12:30 PM EST on NCAA.com.

OK, thanks, I thought the broadcasters on the Whitman/Whitworth game said 9:30...which I suppose would be THEIR time, and also I thought Hoopsville said 9:30.

Dave gets the bracket at 9:30 because he's on the selection show and has to announce them.  The rest of us find out at 12:30.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2018, 10:40:02 PM
Quote from: kiko on February 25, 2018, 10:17:31 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 25, 2018, 08:46:20 PM
Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on February 25, 2018, 08:40:33 PM
Quote from: augie77 on February 25, 2018, 08:04:20 PM
Assuming they're assigned to a close by regional, they might be able to travel after sunset on Saturday for a late semi-final tilt. 9:00 pm, perhaps?.  Championship would need to be scheduled for Sunday.

Couldn't Yeshiva travel Friday during the day (maybe even get a practice in) and then play the late Semifinal game on Saturday (8pm tip-off would be well after sunset) with the second round game Sunday?
As I understand it, they could play a 1 pm Friday semifinal and then an 8pm final on Saturday.

This is the most likely scenario IMO.  I would be surprised if a second-round game were pushed to Sunday, for three reasons:

- While there are no games on Sunday, this is when hosts are determined for the following weekend.  I doubt the NCAA will let one school's needs disrupt a broader set of activities.
- Pushing this game but not those in adjacent pods to Sunday would create opportunities for extra prep and scouting by schools in adjacent portions of the bracket.  That's not fair to Yeshiva -- or to a podmate who beats them.
- Were Yeshiva to lose on Friday, there is no need to adjust scheduling for the second round game... and there would be a clear desire to lock in a date and time for this game before Round 1 happens, so the four schools in the pod have clear visibility to the schedule and can plan accordingly.

I would expect the poobahs to accommodate Yeshiva's needs in a manner that creates as narrow of a disruption on the broader tournament as possible.

The question is whether Yeshiva would forgo a walkthrough Saturday morning.  If they want time to practice, the game will likely be moved.  However, the chances of them winning a first round game are pretty slim, so it's probably moot.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 25, 2018, 10:41:10 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2018, 10:40:02 PM
Quote from: kiko on February 25, 2018, 10:17:31 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 25, 2018, 08:46:20 PM
Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on February 25, 2018, 08:40:33 PM
Quote from: augie77 on February 25, 2018, 08:04:20 PM
Assuming they're assigned to a close by regional, they might be able to travel after sunset on Saturday for a late semi-final tilt. 9:00 pm, perhaps?.  Championship would need to be scheduled for Sunday.

Couldn't Yeshiva travel Friday during the day (maybe even get a practice in) and then play the late Semifinal game on Saturday (8pm tip-off would be well after sunset) with the second round game Sunday?
As I understand it, they could play a 1 pm Friday semifinal and then an 8pm final on Saturday.

This is the most likely scenario IMO.  I would be surprised if a second-round game were pushed to Sunday, for three reasons:

- While there are no games on Sunday, this is when hosts are determined for the following weekend.  I doubt the NCAA will let one school's needs disrupt a broader set of activities.
- Pushing this game but not those in adjacent pods to Sunday would create opportunities for extra prep and scouting by schools in adjacent portions of the bracket.  That's not fair to Yeshiva -- or to a podmate who beats them.
- Were Yeshiva to lose on Friday, there is no need to adjust scheduling for the second round game... and there would be a clear desire to lock in a date and time for this game before Round 1 happens, so the four schools in the pod have clear visibility to the schedule and can plan accordingly.

I would expect the poobahs to accommodate Yeshiva's needs in a manner that creates as narrow of a disruption on the broader tournament as possible.

The question is whether Yeshiva would forgo a walkthrough Saturday morning.  If they want time to practice, the game will likely be moved. However, the chances of them winning a first round game are pretty slim, so it's probably moot.

Come on now...Anything can happen!  :P ::) :o ;D
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: augie77 on February 25, 2018, 10:56:03 PM
Who would have predicted that last place (8 seed) Berry would beat 7 seed Hendrix in the finals of the SAC Tournament to get to the dance?  The Maccabees prospects of getting a tournament win seem far greater than an 8-17 team advancing through the SAC to earn a Pool A spot.

How about a future Final Four with Yeshiva versus Calvin or Wheaton (no Sunday games allowed)?  How would the NCAA handle that?? ???
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 25, 2018, 11:35:34 PM
Quote from: augie77 on February 25, 2018, 10:56:03 PM
Who would have predicted that last place (8 seed) Berry would beat 7 seed Hendrix in the finals of the SAC Tournament to get to the dance?  The Maccabees prospects of getting a tournament win seem far greater than an 8-17 team advancing through the SAC to earn a Pool A spot.

How about a future Final Four with Yeshiva versus Calvin or Wheaton (no Sunday games allowed)?  How would the NCAA handle that?? ???

Calvin has forgone the Sunday limitation as has Hope and Messiah. I am not sure about Wheaton. However, in your very extreme hypothesis, the NCAA would know in advance and plan accordingly... I bet a Saturday/Monday would be put in place... though CBS Sports would be a bit ticked off.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 26, 2018, 12:25:21 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 25, 2018, 11:35:34 PM
Quote from: augie77 on February 25, 2018, 10:56:03 PM
Who would have predicted that last place (8 seed) Berry would beat 7 seed Hendrix in the finals of the SAC Tournament to get to the dance?  The Maccabees prospects of getting a tournament win seem far greater than an 8-17 team advancing through the SAC to earn a Pool A spot.

How about a future Final Four with Yeshiva versus Calvin or Wheaton (no Sunday games allowed)?  How would the NCAA handle that?? ???

Calvin has forgone the Sunday limitation as has Hope and Messiah. I am not sure about Wheaton. However, in your very extreme hypothesis, the NCAA would know in advance and plan accordingly... I bet a Saturday/Monday would be put in place... though CBS Sports would be a bit ticked off.
Wheaton doesn't play on Sunday, in football at least. Their game against North Central this year (http://www.d3football.com/seasons/2017/contrib/20171016lgpkd5) was delayed due to weather and they eventually stopped it at halftime late Saturday night when it was clear the game wouldn't finish before midnight then they resumed on Monday.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: deiscanton on February 26, 2018, 12:21:06 PM
Men's basketball selection show has been delayed 1/2 hour.

The show will now be at 1 PM Eastern on NCAA.com
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: nescac1 on February 26, 2018, 01:21:41 PM
Wow is that Wittinberg/Augustana quarter of the bracket brutal ...
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Smitty Oom on February 26, 2018, 01:24:23 PM
Another year of the west coast getting pitted against each other....

at Walla Walla Pod.

Whitman
Schriener

Whitworth
CMS
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: (509)Rat on February 26, 2018, 01:26:07 PM
QuoteWow is that Wittinberg/Augustana quarter of the bracket brutal ...

The other central/west quarter of the bracket says hi...
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: nescac1 on February 26, 2018, 01:28:30 PM
Uhh, yeah.  The Whitman bracket is also brutal.  Not sure which of those two is tougher at first glance ...
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Smitty Oom on February 26, 2018, 01:29:26 PM
Quote from: nescac1 on February 26, 2018, 01:28:30 PM
Uhh, yeah.  The Whitman bracket is also brutal.  Not sure which of those two is tougher at first glance ...

Im looking at each bracket and they are all so tough. Gosh I cant wait for some early March Madness!!
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Just Bill on February 26, 2018, 02:58:30 PM
http://www.d3hoops.com/playoffs/men/2018/bracket
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 26, 2018, 08:37:56 PM
It's really disappointing that they couldn't split up Whitman and Whitworth. I failed geography, but did they fly LeTourneau out? I'm pretty sure Sul Ross State got flown out, though sending Whitworth or Whitman to Platteville or Emory would probably be harsh.

Of the tough 1st rounders, off the top of my head: Point v NCC, Plattsburgh v Nichols, Marietta v Oshkosh, Wooster v IWU...
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 26, 2018, 09:35:12 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 26, 2018, 08:37:56 PM
It's really disappointing that they couldn't split up Whitman and Whitworth. I failed geography, but did they fly LeTourneau out? I'm pretty sure Sul Ross State got flown out, though sending Whitworth or Whitman to Platteville or Emory would probably be harsh.

Of the tough 1st rounders, off the top of my head: Point v NCC, Plattsburgh v Nichols, Marietta v Oshkosh, Wooster v IWU...
LeTourneau is being flown to Atlanta (650 miles).

Only one South Region team is hosting the first weekend, Emory.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 26, 2018, 10:04:34 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 26, 2018, 08:37:56 PM
It's really disappointing that they couldn't split up Whitman and Whitworth. I failed geography, but did they fly LeTourneau out? I'm pretty sure Sul Ross State got flown out, though sending Whitworth or Whitman to Platteville or Emory would probably be harsh.

Of the tough 1st rounders, off the top of my head: Point v NCC, Plattsburgh v Nichols, Marietta v Oshkosh, Wooster v IWU...
But, they get very winnable first round games and then get to play each other in a familiar venue where their fans can see the game.

I had hoped for a Texas sub-bracket but all three teams were flown out. Of course, I would be ecstatic if both SRSU and LeTU made it to the Sweet 16.  They have tough first round games.

I like both match-ups for contrast in styles... LeTU vs Hanover and SRSU versus St Olaf.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 26, 2018, 10:24:44 PM
We were told on the Hoopsville special by the committee chair - NONE of the Texas schools filed to host. There were no hosting opportunities in Texas for the committee.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 26, 2018, 10:33:51 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 26, 2018, 08:37:56 PM
It's really disappointing that they couldn't split up Whitman and Whitworth. I failed geography, but did they fly LeTourneau out? I'm pretty sure Sul Ross State got flown out, though sending Whitworth or Whitman to Platteville or Emory would probably be harsh.

Of the tough 1st rounders, off the top of my head: Point v NCC, Plattsburgh v Nichols, Marietta v Oshkosh, Wooster v IWU...
Greek, and anyone else who wants to comment,

I seek insight into your perceived strength of the Pool C's relative to the AQ's.

For arbitrary assignment, let's use the Hoopsville first 17 and then plug in the last 4 in any order.

1) In straight ranking, how many Pool A teams do you perceive are better than:

Hoopsville Pool C #1 Hamilton?

Hoopsville Pool C #8 Wooster?

Hoopsville Pool C #9 Marietta?

Hoopsville Pool C #14 UW-Oshkosh?

Hoopsville Pool C #17 IWU?

Hoopsville Pool C "#18 NCC" and assume they came off next.

I count that the 21 bids were allocated to the teams from 15 conferences, so bid #21 is theoretically, at best, 36th best team in the tourney. The Pool A bids from other 28 single bid conferences may or may not better than #36.

Is a good round number that Pool C bid #21, for example, Brockport is better than 15 or 20 of the Pool A bids?

Thanks to all.

Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 26, 2018, 10:34:32 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 26, 2018, 10:24:44 PM
We were told on the Hoopsville special by the committee chair - NONE of the Texas schools filed to host. There were no hosting opportunities in Texas for the committee.
Surprise,surprise, surprise!!!

Thanks Dave!  +1!



It's a bummer when your day job gets in the way of Hoopsville.

I will need to catch the podcast later in the week! 
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 26, 2018, 10:38:26 PM
I need to turn those podcasts around... exhausted at the end of today's show that I decided it needed to wait until tomorrow.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 26, 2018, 10:50:59 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 26, 2018, 10:33:51 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 26, 2018, 08:37:56 PM
It's really disappointing that they couldn't split up Whitman and Whitworth. I failed geography, but did they fly LeTourneau out? I'm pretty sure Sul Ross State got flown out, though sending Whitworth or Whitman to Platteville or Emory would probably be harsh.

Of the tough 1st rounders, off the top of my head: Point v NCC, Plattsburgh v Nichols, Marietta v Oshkosh, Wooster v IWU...
Greek, and anyone else who wants to comment,

I seek insight into your perceived strength of the Pool C's relative to the AQ's.

For arbitrary assignment, let's use the Hoopsville first 17 and then plug in the last 4 in any order.

1) In straight ranking, how many Pool A teams do you perceive are better than:

Hoopsville Pool C #1 Hamilton?

Hoopsville Pool C #8 Wooster?

Hoopsville Pool C #9 Marietta?

Hoopsville Pool C #14 UW-Oshkosh?

Hoopsville Pool C #17 IWU?

Hoopsville Pool C "#18 NCC" and assume they came off next.

NCC got in ahead of IWU, Ralph. The final regional rankings have NCC #6 in the Central and IWU #7. Also, Marietta (Great Lakes #3) was ahead of Wooster (Great Lakes #4).
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 26, 2018, 11:15:10 PM
Are all the Saturday games at the same local time? 7 pm, for example? Or are there afternoon games?
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2018, 12:48:50 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 26, 2018, 11:15:10 PM
Are all the Saturday games at the same local time? 7 pm, for example? Or are there afternoon games?

There is a standard time, but I do not know, for sure, what it is.  There are legitimate reasons for changing it, but I am also unclear as to what those are.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: augie77 on February 27, 2018, 01:07:13 AM
Games are at 5:30 and 7:30 local time unless there are extenuating circumstances.

Due to Sabbath restrictions Yeshiva and York will tip off in York at 1:00 pm on Friday.  Hamilton and Nazareth will follow at 3:00.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Onward on, John Carroll on February 27, 2018, 04:57:15 AM
There is an option to have a split session and play the games at 5:30 and 8:00 so you can empty the gym in between. I also believe that the home team must play the second game. That's what I have been told. I think the Saturday games are at 7:00.

I assume that the NCAA can grant waivers if necessary and requested.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: spwood on February 27, 2018, 07:00:40 AM
Quote from: augie77 on February 27, 2018, 01:07:13 AM
Games are at 5:30 and 7:30 local time unless there are extenuating circumstances.

Due to Sabbath restrictions Yeshiva and York will tip off in York at 1:00 pm on Friday.  Hamilton and Nazareth will follow at 3:00.

The NCAA.com bracket shows the game as 1 PM on Saturday.  I assumed that was a misprint.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: fantastic50 on February 27, 2018, 09:28:04 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 26, 2018, 10:33:51 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 26, 2018, 08:37:56 PM
It's really disappointing that they couldn't split up Whitman and Whitworth. I failed geography, but did they fly LeTourneau out? I'm pretty sure Sul Ross State got flown out, though sending Whitworth or Whitman to Platteville or Emory would probably be harsh.

Of the tough 1st rounders, off the top of my head: Point v NCC, Plattsburgh v Nichols, Marietta v Oshkosh, Wooster v IWU...
Greek, and anyone else who wants to comment,

I seek insight into your perceived strength of the Pool C's relative to the AQ's.

For arbitrary assignment, let's use the Hoopsville first 17 and then plug in the last 4 in any order.

1) In straight ranking, how many Pool A teams do you perceive are better than:

Hoopsville Pool C #1 Hamilton?

Hoopsville Pool C #8 Wooster?

Hoopsville Pool C #9 Marietta?

Hoopsville Pool C #14 UW-Oshkosh?

Hoopsville Pool C #17 IWU?

Hoopsville Pool C "#18 NCC" and assume they came off next.

I count that the 21 bids were allocated to the teams from 15 conferences, so bid #21 is theoretically, at best, 36th best team in the tourney. The Pool A bids from other 28 single bid conferences may or may not better than #36.

Is a good round number that Pool C bid #21, for example, Brockport is better than 15 or 20 of the Pool A bids?

Thanks to all.

Based on selection criteria according to my model, I would say the following...

I have Wesleyan and Hamilton in the top 4, so there are two Pool A teams above that level (Williams & Augustana).

Marietta and Wooster were the 8th & 9th Pool C teams on my list, and there were 9 Pool A teams above them.  (This means that Marietta is at the top of the "#2 seeds" in pods).

There were 18 Pool A teams above UW-O (so if they were #14, that would make them #32 overall, the last "#2 seed").

I had only one more Pool A team between UW-O and Brockport, and 24 Pool A teams below Brockport.  The first eight of those 24 (who wouldn't have gotten in without the AQ) form the lower half of the "#3 seeds", along with the 16 "#4 seeds" from this group.

If we talked about "best" instead of most deserving by the criteria, that's a different story completely.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2018, 10:43:48 AM

I didn't think the SUNYAC was particularly strong this year - if we're talking actually strength.  I think Brockport is probably lower down the rankings in my mind because of it.  When it comes to the bracket, the only team "seeded" below them that's better than them is Nichols, but as I've made abundantly clear, I don't think Nichols is seeded properly.

As for other teams in the "3" spot - I'd put Brockport ahead of Moravian and Nazareth, probably Union as well (and New England College, obviously) - on par with Leb Val, Hope, and Maryville and behind, either slightly or moreso, the rest of the threes.

So that's ahead of 19 AQs and on par with three more.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: mailsy on February 27, 2018, 11:30:46 AM
Something I noticed. My Cabrini squads, winners of the CSAC, are playing the winners of the same conference, the CUNYAC. M-Staten Island. W-Brooklyn. I'm not talking pool C teams. But pool A. Are there any other schools who have both teams, winners of their conference, playing the winner of the same conference? Does this happen often? Curious. Thanks.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 27, 2018, 11:46:46 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2018, 12:48:50 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 26, 2018, 11:15:10 PM
Are all the Saturday games at the same local time? 7 pm, for example? Or are there afternoon games?

There is a standard time, but I do not know, for sure, what it is.  There are legitimate reasons for changing it, but I am also unclear as to what those are.

Biggest reasons for the timing is to give both teams the same about of time to recover. They also don't love the idea of a tight turnaround the next day - though CBS has dictated otherwise in Salem which has shifted the semis in the past to an earlier slot.

Quote from: spwood on February 27, 2018, 07:00:40 AM
Quote from: augie77 on February 27, 2018, 01:07:13 AM
Games are at 5:30 and 7:30 local time unless there are extenuating circumstances.

Due to Sabbath restrictions Yeshiva and York will tip off in York at 1:00 pm on Friday.  Hamilton and Nazareth will follow at 3:00.

The NCAA.com bracket shows the game as 1 PM on Saturday.  I assumed that was a misprint.

May not be a misprint. I suspect (without checking with anyone) that they want to keep the structure to the weekend the same even for York where the games are earlier Friday and will play Saturday's game at 1pm if Yeshiva has not advanced. Should Yeshiva advance, then the game will be at 8:00 or 8:30 PM from what I'm told.

Quote from: Onward on, John Carroll on February 27, 2018, 04:57:15 AM
There is an option to have a split session and play the games at 5:30 and 8:00 so you can empty the gym in between. I also believe that the home team must play the second game. That's what I have been told. I think the Saturday games are at 7:00.

I assume that the NCAA can grant waivers if necessary and requested.

They do grant waivers, but they are few and far between. Usually has to do with a conflict like religious ones. If there is a site problem, they usually find another location to host.

Quote from: mailsy on February 27, 2018, 11:30:46 AM
Something I noticed. My Cabrini squads, winners of the CSAC, are playing the winners of the same conference, the CUNYAC. M-Staten Island. W-Brooklyn. I'm not talking pool C teams. But pool A. Are there any other schools who have both teams, winners of their conference, playing the winner of the same conference? Does this happen often? Curious. Thanks.

It has happened probably more often than we realize (and don't pay attention to). Since both committees aren't really chatting when it comes to bracketing (except for men/women hosting items where there were none this year), I am sure we could spot it more than we realize in the last few years. Just a gut feeling. May be more rare than I think. LOL
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2018, 11:55:25 AM
Quote from: mailsy on February 27, 2018, 11:30:46 AM
Something I noticed. My Cabrini squads, winners of the CSAC, are playing the winners of the same conference, the CUNYAC. M-Staten Island. W-Brooklyn. I'm not talking pool C teams. But pool A. Are there any other schools who have both teams, winners of their conference, playing the winner of the same conference? Does this happen often? Curious. Thanks.

I imagine NESCAC and MASCAC winners have probably played each other quite a bit, especially since the MASCAC is pretty prone to upsets.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 27, 2018, 11:58:21 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2018, 11:55:25 AM
Quote from: mailsy on February 27, 2018, 11:30:46 AM
Something I noticed. My Cabrini squads, winners of the CSAC, are playing the winners of the same conference, the CUNYAC. M-Staten Island. W-Brooklyn. I'm not talking pool C teams. But pool A. Are there any other schools who have both teams, winners of their conference, playing the winner of the same conference? Does this happen often? Curious. Thanks.

I imagine NESCAC and MASCAC winners have probably played each other quite a bit, especially since the MASCAC is pretty prone to upsets.

Off the top of my head just on the women's side it has happened twice in the last three tournaments (counting this year). Men's side, I know it has happened (this year, right?) often as well.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2018, 12:11:55 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 27, 2018, 11:58:21 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2018, 11:55:25 AM
Quote from: mailsy on February 27, 2018, 11:30:46 AM
Something I noticed. My Cabrini squads, winners of the CSAC, are playing the winners of the same conference, the CUNYAC. M-Staten Island. W-Brooklyn. I'm not talking pool C teams. But pool A. Are there any other schools who have both teams, winners of their conference, playing the winner of the same conference? Does this happen often? Curious. Thanks.

I imagine NESCAC and MASCAC winners have probably played each other quite a bit, especially since the MASCAC is pretty prone to upsets.

Off the top of my head just on the women's side it has happened twice in the last three tournaments (counting this year). Men's side, I know it has happened (this year, right?) often as well.

Amherst women are playing Becker this year, so it's not happening right now.  I don't have the time to go back and check.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 27, 2018, 01:08:00 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2018, 12:11:55 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 27, 2018, 11:58:21 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2018, 11:55:25 AM
Quote from: mailsy on February 27, 2018, 11:30:46 AM
Something I noticed. My Cabrini squads, winners of the CSAC, are playing the winners of the same conference, the CUNYAC. M-Staten Island. W-Brooklyn. I'm not talking pool C teams. But pool A. Are there any other schools who have both teams, winners of their conference, playing the winner of the same conference? Does this happen often? Curious. Thanks.

I imagine NESCAC and MASCAC winners have probably played each other quite a bit, especially since the MASCAC is pretty prone to upsets.

Off the top of my head just on the women's side it has happened twice in the last three tournaments (counting this year). Men's side, I know it has happened (this year, right?) often as well.

Amherst women are playing Becker this year, so it's not happening right now.  I don't have the time to go back and check.

Westfield is playing Tufts in the first round this year. Not an AQ, I get that, but still conference comparison.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 27, 2018, 03:20:24 PM
We forgot to post this yesterday... or more realistically, didn't have time...

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdnak1.psbin.com%2Fimg%2Fmw%3D710%2Fcr%3Dn%2Fd%3D4rx4o%2Fst0zrjaanjidvo5o.jpg&hash=ed02c34abc0f003fecf525fd9a62e18641c4e00a)

The NCAA Division III tournaments are set. We know which 128 teams will be playing for the national championship. But there were some surprises, maybe some controversy, and certainly a lot of questions.

On a special edition of Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com), Dave McHugh was joined by Ryan Scott as they answered questions, tried to understand some of the decisions made, and pointed to some of the more interesting games to watch.

Dave also had a chance to talk more in depth about one of the big stories in the men's bracket, Yeshiva. Men's coach Elliot Steinmetz discussed the team's first ever conference title, NCAA tournament berth, and some of the scheduling changes that will take place to accommodate the school's religious background.

Dave will also talked to the men's committee chairs, Tim Fitzpatrick (Coast Guard Athletics Director), later in the show.

Hoopsville is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. You can watch Monday's show here: http://bit.ly/2GFVq3M

Also, all podcasts from Sunday's and Monday's shows are available through their respective show pages... or the info below (where you can also subscribe to the podcast; (click on the images when necessary):
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Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 27, 2018, 04:18:14 PM
So what are some upsets that have happened in the 1st weekend? What are some possible big upsets this weekend?

Northwestern beating St. Thomas a few years ago is a big one. In 2012(?) Edgewood beats River Falls.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 27, 2018, 04:24:59 PM
Defiance over defending champs and #2 ranked UW-Whitewater in 2015 by 12 (same day as the Northwestern upset of the #3 team)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: BBJones on February 27, 2018, 04:35:50 PM
Congrats to Yeshiva, I hope they work out all the previously addressed Sabbath requirements.  That should be respected by the NCAA.  Also provides an educational opportunity for all of us understand the beliefs of the Maccabees.  :)

I attended the quad that Hope College hosted first and second round last year.  After sundown, the Wisconsin teams--Ripon and Oshkosh, who both lost close first round games--exercised a few demons with the holy water of Holland, which they eventually ran out of at the hotel bar.  :o 

 
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: deiscanton on February 27, 2018, 06:59:28 PM
Quote from: BBJones on February 27, 2018, 04:35:50 PM
Congrats to Yeshiva, I hope they work out all the previously addressed Sabbath requirements.  That should be respected by the NCAA.  Also provides an educational opportunity for all of us understand the beliefs of the Maccabees.  :)

I attended the quad that Hope College hosted first and second round last year.  After sundown, the Wisconsin teams--Ripon and Oshkosh, who both lost close first round games--exercised a few demons with the holy water of Holland, which they eventually ran out of at the hotel bar.  :o 



The start time for the first round game between York PA and Yeshiva is at 1 PM Eastern Friday, and will be the first game of the day.

If York PA advances-- the second round will be at 7 PM Eastern Saturday.
If Yeshiva advances-- the second round will be at 8:30 PM Eastern Saturday.

York, PA has an active Chabad community that can help out Yeshiva with the observance of Shabbat. 
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 27, 2018, 08:04:23 PM
Quote from: deiscanton on February 27, 2018, 06:59:28 PM
York, PA has an active Chabad community that can help out Yeshiva with the observance of Shabbat.

That's very cool, and very much in the spirit of D3.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Knightstalker on February 28, 2018, 11:52:03 AM
Quote from: BBJones on February 27, 2018, 04:35:50 PM
Congrats to Yeshiva, I hope they work out all the previously addressed Sabbath requirements.  That should be respected by the NCAA.  Also provides an educational opportunity for all of us understand the beliefs of the Maccabees.  :)

I attended the quad that Hope College hosted first and second round last year.  After sundown, the Wisconsin teams--Ripon and Oshkosh, who both lost close first round games--exercised a few demons with the holy water of Holland, which they eventually ran out of at the hotel bar.  :o 



The local ABC station in New York, channel 7 did a story last night about Yeshiva.  It was an interesting piece.  Besides the sabbath restrictions they also have to find kosher food for the team but they are excited about the opportunity to play in the tournament.  They have also been getting calls and emails from around the globe wishing them luck from Jewish basketball fans.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: mailsy on February 28, 2018, 01:03:21 PM
Very cool!
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Smitty Oom on February 28, 2018, 02:29:04 PM
Do you have a link? Very cool story!
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 28, 2018, 02:37:26 PM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on February 28, 2018, 02:29:04 PM
Do you have a link? Very cool story!

Here's the D3hoops story on Yeshiva.

http://www.d3hoops.com/playoffs/men/2018/yeshiva-jewish-history
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gray Fox on February 28, 2018, 02:52:56 PM
I'm intrigued by the match up of Sul Ross State and St. Olaf.
Two very different cultures   I'm sure they play the game with the same enthusiasm.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Knightstalker on February 28, 2018, 04:22:07 PM
Here is the link to the ABC site that has the video embedded.
http://abc7ny.com/sports/yeshiva-university-heads-to-ncaa-div-iii-tournament-for-1st-time/3149707/
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 28, 2018, 11:03:13 PM
Quote from: Gray Fox on February 28, 2018, 02:52:56 PM
I'm intrigued by the match up of Sul Ross State and St. Olaf.
Two very different cultures   I'm sure they play the game with the same enthusiasm.
I can see it now. The world famous St Olaf's Choir performing, Home on the Range,  "where the deer and the antelope play".

SRSU is the birthplace of the National Intercollegiate Rodeo Association in 1948.

http://www.sulross.edu/sul-ross-state-university-rodeo


Current offices are in Walla Walla Washington, another D3 venue.

http://www.collegerodeo.com/
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 01, 2018, 03:24:13 AM
A little look at how hosts have done in the tournament recently... 2013 was the awkward year where the tournament was stretched out to the breaking point.

       Round 1   Round 2   Sweet 16   Elite 8
2017:   15-1       11-4       2-2       1-1
2016:   11-5        9-3       3-1       1-2
2015:   13-3       12-2       4-0       3-1
2014:   12-4        9-4       3-1       2-1
2013:   24-6        8-8       6-2        -
2012:   11-5        8-3       2-2       1-1
2011:   13-3       10-3       3-1       2-1
2010:   11-5        9-4       3-1       3-0
Totals minus 2013:
        86-26      68-23     20-8      13-7
        76.8%      74.1%     71.4%      65%
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 01, 2018, 07:28:57 AM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 01, 2018, 03:24:13 AM
A little look at how hosts have done in the tournament recently... 2013 was the awkward year where the tournament was stretched out to the breaking point.

       Round 1   Round 2   Sweet 16   Elite 8
2017:   15-1       11-4       2-2       1-1
2016:   11-5        9-3       3-1       1-2
2015:   13-3       12-2       4-0       3-1
2014:   12-4        9-4       3-1       2-1
2013:   24-6        8-8       6-2        -
2012:   11-5        8-3       2-2       1-1
2011:   13-3       10-3       3-1       2-1
2010:   11-5        9-4       3-1       3-0
Totals minus 2013:
        86-26      68-23     20-8      13-7
        76.8%      74.1%     71.4%      65%


+1.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: lmitzel on March 01, 2018, 09:54:37 AM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 01, 2018, 03:24:13 AM
A little look at how hosts have done in the tournament recently... 2013 was the awkward year where the tournament was stretched out to the breaking point.

       Round 1   Round 2   Sweet 16   Elite 8
2017:   15-1       11-4       2-2       1-1
2016:   11-5        9-3       3-1       1-2
2015:   13-3       12-2       4-0       3-1
2014:   12-4        9-4       3-1       2-1
2013:   24-6        8-8       6-2        -
2012:   11-5        8-3       2-2       1-1
2011:   13-3       10-3       3-1       2-1
2010:   11-5        9-4       3-1       3-0
Totals minus 2013:
        86-26      68-23     20-8      13-7
        76.8%      74.1%     71.4%      65%


So overall, that's a mark of 187-64, good for a 74.5% winning percentage. Makes sense too that the numbers go down every round as the teams get better and thus the talent gap narrows.

+1 for the research.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2018, 12:08:13 PM
+1! FCG
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 01, 2018, 03:24:13 AM
A little look at how hosts have done in the tournament recently... 2013 was the awkward year where the tournament was stretched out to the breaking point.

       Round 1   Round 2   Sweet 16   Elite 8
2017:   15-1       11-4       2-2       1-1
2016:   11-5        9-3       3-1       1-2
2015:   13-3       12-2       4-0       3-1
2014:   12-4        9-4       3-1       2-1
2013:   24-6        8-8       6-2        -
2012:   11-5        8-3       2-2       1-1
2011:   13-3       10-3       3-1       2-1
2010:   11-5        9-4       3-1       3-0
Totals minus 2013:
        86-26      68-23     20-8      13-7
        76.8%      74.1%     71.4%      65%


A question about the role of teams that get a bye in the first round. Should not that game count as a 2nd round game, because one opponent has already won a game?

The host team in the 2nd round that received a bye was usually considered the higher seed. There may have been times when geographic proximity in the island regions mandated the venue (IMHO).

If so, then I would move the first round games in a bye bracket accordingly, so we always have 16 games in the second round and fewer in the first round.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: AllStar on March 01, 2018, 01:26:05 PM
Some info:
(https://i.imgur.com/Ojigy3E.png)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 01, 2018, 02:53:08 PM
Quote from: AllStar on March 01, 2018, 01:26:05 PM
Some info:
(https://i.imgur.com/Ojigy3E.png)

+1
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: AllStar on March 01, 2018, 05:00:29 PM
I also tried my hand at this...may not be great.  Zoomed in on the northeast below.
(https://i.imgur.com/ocWv7tj.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/fxK4X2m.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/u6zUIre.png)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 01, 2018, 06:50:02 PM
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdnak1.psbin.com%2Fimg%2Fmw%3D710%2Fcr%3Dn%2Fd%3D4xipm%2Fzu5evwom5j13laim.jpg&hash=b4e5c35ca6f6238a681a71f413d9bb512cc94cff)

The Division III men's and women's national tournaments are set, teams are where they need to be, and practices underway. Now, it's just a matter of tipping off the games.

But before we tip them off, we need some final thoughts.

Tune in Thursday night to Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) where Dave will talk to a number of guests about their programs and their chances in the NCAA tournament. You can't starting heading down the Road to Rochester or the Road to Salem without getting an idea of who may be joining you, either. Dave will give some insight on how some of the pods just may shake out as well.

Also, earlier in the day, Dave talked with Women's Basketball Nationall Committee chair Bobbi Morgan (also head coach at Haverford) and asked her a lot about the selection process and bracketing for this year's tournament. You can hear that special podcast here: http://bit.ly/2GUbfE0

Hoopsville is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. Thursday's edition hits the air at 7:00 p.m. ET. You can tune in live here: http://bit.ly/2HSi9ed.

If you have questions, be sure to email them to hoopsville@d3hoops.com or interact with the show via the social media avenues.

Guests Schedule (order subject to change):
- Marc Brown & Sam Toney, New Jersey City men's coach and star player
- Nate Davis, Gettysburg women's coach
- Jeff Rogers, Berry men's coach
- Alex Richey, Oglethorpe women's coach (WBCA Center Court)
- Dan Englestad, Southern Vermont men's coach
- Ken Scalmanini, Claremont-Mudd-Scripps men's coach

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Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 01, 2018, 08:36:43 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2018, 12:08:13 PM
+1! FCG
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 01, 2018, 03:24:13 AM
A little look at how hosts have done in the tournament recently... 2013 was the awkward year where the tournament was stretched out to the breaking point.

       Round 1   Round 2   Sweet 16   Elite 8
2017:   15-1       11-4       2-2       1-1
2016:   11-5        9-3       3-1       1-2
2015:   13-3       12-2       4-0       3-1
2014:   12-4        9-4       3-1       2-1
2013:   24-6        8-8       6-2        -
2012:   11-5        8-3       2-2       1-1
2011:   13-3       10-3       3-1       2-1
2010:   11-5        9-4       3-1       3-0
Totals minus 2013:
        86-26      68-23     20-8      13-7
        76.8%      74.1%     71.4%      65%


A question about the role of teams that get a bye in the first round. Should not that game count as a 2nd round game, because one opponent has already won a game?

The host team in the 2nd round that received a bye was usually considered the higher seed. There may have been times when geographic proximity in the island regions mandated the venue (IMHO).

If so, then I would move the first round games in a bye bracket accordingly, so we always have 16 games in the second round and fewer in the first round.
The way I did those "pods" was the first round game was always at one of those two teams so that counted in the first round, then the winner traveled to the team with a bye and that counted for the 2nd round. That's why even though only 86 home teams won round one there ended up being 91 home teams in round two because five times the home team lost round one but then there was a different home team for round 2.

Another stat I didn't include in my initial post... home teams for the pods won the pod first weekend 60.7% while the 2nd weekend just 46.4%
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2018, 09:14:26 PM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 01, 2018, 08:36:43 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2018, 12:08:13 PM
+1! FCG
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 01, 2018, 03:24:13 AM
A little look at how hosts have done in the tournament recently... 2013 was the awkward year where the tournament was stretched out to the breaking point.

       Round 1   Round 2   Sweet 16   Elite 8
2017:   15-1       11-4       2-2       1-1
2016:   11-5        9-3       3-1       1-2
2015:   13-3       12-2       4-0       3-1
2014:   12-4        9-4       3-1       2-1
2013:   24-6        8-8       6-2        -
2012:   11-5        8-3       2-2       1-1
2011:   13-3       10-3       3-1       2-1
2010:   11-5        9-4       3-1       3-0
Totals minus 2013:
        86-26      68-23     20-8      13-7
        76.8%      74.1%     71.4%      65%


A question about the role of teams that get a bye in the first round. Should not that game count as a 2nd round game, because one opponent has already won a game?

The host team in the 2nd round that received a bye was usually considered the higher seed. There may have been times when geographic proximity in the island regions mandated the venue (IMHO).

If so, then I would move the first round games in a bye bracket accordingly, so we always have 16 games in the second round and fewer in the first round.
The way I did those "pods" was the first round game was always at one of those two teams so that counted in the first round, then the winner traveled to the team with a bye and that counted for the 2nd round. That's why even though only 86 home teams won round one there ended up being 91 home teams in round two because five times the home team lost round one but then there was a different home team for round 2.

Another stat I didn't include in my initial post... home teams for the pods won the pod first weekend 60.7% while the 2nd weekend just 46.4%
Thanks for the explanation, FCG!  Another +1!
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: fantastic50 on March 02, 2018, 10:36:03 AM
Here's my take on the tournament...

Top-left bracket
Sectional final: Williams over Johns Hopkins
Salem darkhorse: MIT
Upset watch: Lebanon Valley over Middlebury

Bottom-left bracket
Sectional final: Wittenberg over John Carroll (but watch Augustana)
Salem darkhorse: Augsburg
Upset watch: Hope over Augsburg

Top-right bracket
Sectional final: UW-Platteville over Whitman (could have been for the Walnut & Bronze)
Salem darkhorse: Nebraska Wesleyan
Upset watch: CMS over Whitworth

Bottom-right bracket
Sectional final: Wesleyan over Cabrini
Salem darkhorse: None, but six teams have a decent shot (York, Plattsburgh, Hamilton, Swarthmore)
Upset watch: Nazareth over Hamilton

Championship
UW-Platteville over Wittenberg
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Smitty Oom on March 02, 2018, 12:17:43 PM
http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=8776.0

If you want to go on record for your final four and championship post it here! Still have some time to do so during the lunch hour!  ;D >:(
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: ronk on March 02, 2018, 12:51:03 PM
 Is their a ROKU channel for the NCAA tourney or do we have to go with the conference channel for a team(Landmark for Moravian,Scranton, or Juniata) or the host site conference(NESCAC for the Williams regional, e.g.)?
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: lmitzel on March 02, 2018, 12:55:36 PM
Quote from: ronk on March 02, 2018, 12:51:03 PM
Is their a ROKU channel for the NCAA tourney or do we have to go with the conference channel for a team(Landmark for Moravian,Scranton, or Juniata) or the host site conference(NESCAC for the Williams regional, e.g.)?

I don't know that there's a nationwide channel, so it'll probably have to be the host team/conference site.

Here's the link to the York-Yeshiva game about to start: https://portal.stretchinternet.com/ycp/portal.htm?eventId=432350&streamType=video
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Onward on, John Carroll on March 02, 2018, 01:35:37 PM
Quote from: lmitzel on March 02, 2018, 12:55:36 PM
Quote from: ronk on March 02, 2018, 12:51:03 PM
Is their a ROKU channel for the NCAA tourney or do we have to go with the conference channel for a team(Landmark for Moravian,Scranton, or Juniata) or the host site conference(NESCAC for the Williams regional, e.g.)?

I don't know that there's a nationwide channel, so it'll probably have to be the host team/conference site.

Here's the link to the York-Yeshiva game about to start: https://portal.stretchinternet.com/ycp/portal.htm?eventId=432350&streamType=video

JCUsports has a Boxcast channel.  That said, here are links to the two games in University Heights today:

IWU-Wooster
https://boxcast.tv/view/ncaa-division-iii-basketball-championship-1st-round-illinois-wesleyan-vs-wooster-633823

JCU-Thomas More
https://boxcast.tv/view/ncaa-division-iii-basketball-championship-1st-round-thomas-more-at-john-carroll-547519
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 02, 2018, 03:20:08 PM
Quote from: Onward on, John Carroll on March 02, 2018, 01:35:37 PM
Quote from: lmitzel on March 02, 2018, 12:55:36 PM
Quote from: ronk on March 02, 2018, 12:51:03 PM
Is their a ROKU channel for the NCAA tourney or do we have to go with the conference channel for a team(Landmark for Moravian,Scranton, or Juniata) or the host site conference(NESCAC for the Williams regional, e.g.)?

I don't know that there's a nationwide channel, so it'll probably have to be the host team/conference site.

Here's the link to the York-Yeshiva game about to start: https://portal.stretchinternet.com/ycp/portal.htm?eventId=432350&streamType=video

JCUsports has a Boxcast channel.  That said, here are links to the two games in University Heights today:

IWU-Wooster
https://boxcast.tv/view/ncaa-division-iii-basketball-championship-1st-round-illinois-wesleyan-vs-wooster-633823

JCU-Thomas More
https://boxcast.tv/view/ncaa-division-iii-basketball-championship-1st-round-thomas-more-at-john-carroll-547519

D3hoops.com has a scoreboard, where all games are listed with all video links.
http://www.d3hoops.com/seasons/men/2017-18/ncaa-tournament?date=2018-03-02
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: kiltedbryan on March 02, 2018, 08:49:56 PM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 01, 2018, 08:36:43 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2018, 12:08:13 PM
+1! FCG
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 01, 2018, 03:24:13 AM
A little look at how hosts have done in the tournament recently... 2013 was the awkward year where the tournament was stretched out to the breaking point.

       Round 1   Round 2   Sweet 16   Elite 8
2017:   15-1       11-4       2-2       1-1
2016:   11-5        9-3       3-1       1-2
2015:   13-3       12-2       4-0       3-1
2014:   12-4        9-4       3-1       2-1
2013:   24-6        8-8       6-2        -
2012:   11-5        8-3       2-2       1-1
2011:   13-3       10-3       3-1       2-1
2010:   11-5        9-4       3-1       3-0
Totals minus 2013:
        86-26      68-23     20-8      13-7
        76.8%      74.1%     71.4%      65%


A question about the role of teams that get a bye in the first round. Should not that game count as a 2nd round game, because one opponent has already won a game?

The host team in the 2nd round that received a bye was usually considered the higher seed. There may have been times when geographic proximity in the island regions mandated the venue (IMHO).

If so, then I would move the first round games in a bye bracket accordingly, so we always have 16 games in the second round and fewer in the first round.
The way I did those "pods" was the first round game was always at one of those two teams so that counted in the first round, then the winner traveled to the team with a bye and that counted for the 2nd round. That's why even though only 86 home teams won round one there ended up being 91 home teams in round two because five times the home team lost round one but then there was a different home team for round 2.

Another stat I didn't include in my initial post... home teams for the pods won the pod first weekend 60.7% while the 2nd weekend just 46.4%

Still impressive, given that 46% is nearly twice as likely as the 25% odds you'd expect if all four teams in a pod were evenly matched. Home teams still a strong favorite in that second weekend. Cool data, +1.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 02, 2018, 10:06:57 PM
Wow. Wash U goes down. Wash U hits a 3 with 1 second to go to tie it and then Aurora throws the length of the floor and nails a 3 at the buzzer....

Guess it was a 2...82-80 Aurora
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: nescac1 on March 02, 2018, 10:08:16 PM
Insane ending.  Wow, what a pair of back-to-back plays.  Tough way to go out for those stellar Wash U seniors.  I don't think anyone saw that one coming.  March Madness!  The heavy favorites in the late games seem to be having a brutally tough time of it.  Anything can happen in the tourney ...
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 02, 2018, 10:08:48 PM
Amazing finish in St. Louis.

Trust me, folks -- I've followed this tournament almost since its inception in the mid-1970s, and this is the biggest upset in the D3 tourney that I can recall.

I honestly can't think of a bigger one.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 02, 2018, 10:09:44 PM
not that it mattered, but the Aurora dude was about four feet behind the line when he shot, how could they possibly call that a two?

whew, that was the March Madness we've been craving! Upset city, onions, double order!
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 02, 2018, 10:10:11 PM
Apparently I can't rewind a live feed...I wanna see that sequence again!
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 02, 2018, 10:10:47 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on March 02, 2018, 10:09:44 PM
not that it mattered, but the Aurora dude was about four feet behind the line when he shot, how could they possibly call that a two?

whew, that was the March Madness we've been craving! Upset city, onions, double order!

I thought it was a 3 too, that's why I posted it as a 3! LOL
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 02, 2018, 10:14:17 PM
Whitworth down 4 with 22 seconds to go
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 02, 2018, 10:14:43 PM
good grief Cabrini, either turn your announcer up or your crowd mic way, way down
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 02, 2018, 10:18:50 PM
CABRINI AT THE BUZZER!! MORE ONIONS!!
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: (509)Rat on March 02, 2018, 10:21:23 PM
Well it's shaping up to be a total cake walk to Salem for Whitman
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 02, 2018, 10:22:57 PM
CMS upsets #2 Whitworth, 83-82.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 02, 2018, 10:23:18 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 02, 2018, 10:21:23 PM
Well it's shaping up to be a total cake walk to Salem for Whitman

Yeah, I'm sure CMS is just gonna lay down.  ??? ::) ;D
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 02, 2018, 10:23:51 PM
down goes Whitworth, St. John's is losing, Augustana is in a nailbiter, this tournament has gone from 0 to EXTREMELY LIT in the last what, 15 minutes?
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: (509)Rat on March 02, 2018, 10:25:20 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 02, 2018, 10:23:18 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 02, 2018, 10:21:23 PM
Well it's shaping up to be a total cake walk to Salem for Whitman

Yeah, I'm sure CMS is just gonna lay down.  ??? ::) ;D

Blues are a terrible matchup for the Stags, I don't think it will be close
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 02, 2018, 10:34:08 PM
And St. John's goes down.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 02, 2018, 10:34:11 PM
Totally unheralded UMAC rep Bethany Lutheran upsets #7 St. John's on SJU's home floor, 102-92.

Think that VOJ is going to do a post-game show, Pat? ;)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: AO on March 02, 2018, 10:57:19 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 02, 2018, 10:08:48 PM
Amazing finish in St. Louis.

Trust me, folks -- I've followed this tournament almost since its inception in the mid-1970s, and this is the biggest upset in the D3 tourney that I can recall.

I honestly can't think of a bigger one.
Massey gave Aurora a 9% chance and Bethany a 6% chance. 
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 02, 2018, 11:03:47 PM
Quote from: AO on March 02, 2018, 10:57:19 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 02, 2018, 10:08:48 PM
Amazing finish in St. Louis.

Trust me, folks -- I've followed this tournament almost since its inception in the mid-1970s, and this is the biggest upset in the D3 tourney that I can recall.

I honestly can't think of a bigger one.
Massey gave Aurora a 9% chance and Bethany a 6% chance.

In Greg's defense, that game ended before the Bethany Lutheran game ended...So, he would be accurate...for about 1/2 an hour.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 02, 2018, 11:10:10 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ILN3D2CBmU

Definitely a 3 by Myers.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 02, 2018, 11:25:03 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 02, 2018, 10:08:48 PM
Amazing finish in St. Louis.

Trust me, folks -- I've followed this tournament almost since its inception in the mid-1970s, and this is the biggest upset in the D3 tourney that I can recall.

I honestly can't think of a bigger one.
How about Northwestern MN 71 #3 Tommies 70 in 2015?
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 02, 2018, 11:25:46 PM
With all of the upsets, we have a bunch of messed up brackets in the D3 Challenge!
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 02, 2018, 11:27:35 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 02, 2018, 11:03:47 PM
Quote from: AO on March 02, 2018, 10:57:19 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 02, 2018, 10:08:48 PM
Amazing finish in St. Louis.

Trust me, folks -- I've followed this tournament almost since its inception in the mid-1970s, and this is the biggest upset in the D3 tourney that I can recall.

I honestly can't think of a bigger one.
Massey gave Aurora a 9% chance and Bethany a 6% chance.

In Greg's defense, that game ended before the Bethany Lutheran game ended...So, he would be accurate...for about 1/2 an hour.

Nope, I'm sticking with my assessment. I think that the Johnnies are a very good team, but they're not Wash-U-level good. I had my doubts that they'd even get out of the first weekend, and I saw very little chance of them getting by Whitman in the sectional semis if they did get that far. Wash U? National champion short list, along with Whitman, Williams, and perhaps Wittenberg.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 02, 2018, 11:30:00 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 02, 2018, 11:25:03 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 02, 2018, 10:08:48 PM
Amazing finish in St. Louis.

Trust me, folks -- I've followed this tournament almost since its inception in the mid-1970s, and this is the biggest upset in the D3 tourney that I can recall.

I honestly can't think of a bigger one.
How about Northwestern MN 71 #3 Tommies 70 in 2015?

That one ranks way up there, too. Neutral court, though.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: nescac1 on March 02, 2018, 11:31:30 PM
It's academic since the shot counted, but shouldn't the game clock have started when the Aurora player caught the inbounds?  I was wondering why that four seconds felt so fast ...
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: mailsy on March 02, 2018, 11:34:28 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 02, 2018, 11:10:10 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ILN3D2CBmU

Definitely a 3 by Myers.

By a couple  of feet.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: AO on March 02, 2018, 11:52:47 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 02, 2018, 11:25:03 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 02, 2018, 10:08:48 PM
Amazing finish in St. Louis.

Trust me, folks -- I've followed this tournament almost since its inception in the mid-1970s, and this is the biggest upset in the D3 tourney that I can recall.

I honestly can't think of a bigger one.
How about Northwestern MN 71 #3 Tommies 70 in 2015?
A personal favorite for sure, but Massey did give us a slightly better chance: 11%  I think we do get bonus upset points when you consider that the Tommies won it all the next year.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: WUPHF on March 03, 2018, 12:03:59 AM
Quote from: nescac1 on March 02, 2018, 11:31:30 PM
It's academic since the shot counted, but shouldn't the game clock have started when the Aurora player caught the inbounds?  I was wondering why that four seconds felt so fast ...

They had a different clock operator tonight...
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: AO on March 03, 2018, 12:15:18 AM
Quote from: WUPHF on March 03, 2018, 12:03:59 AM
Quote from: nescac1 on March 02, 2018, 11:31:30 PM
It's academic since the shot counted, but shouldn't the game clock have started when the Aurora player caught the inbounds?  I was wondering why that four seconds felt so fast ...

They had a different clock operator tonight...
The on-screen graphic didn't match the in-game scoreboard which was at 1.6 on the inbound and seemed to start on time.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 12:20:58 AM
Very classy postgame press conference under difficult circumstances with Wash U coach Mark Edwards and star forward Andrew Sanders:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WS_ENIkOUc&list=PL386C7A8527679D9B&index=1&t=0s
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 03, 2018, 12:26:55 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 02, 2018, 10:08:48 PM
Amazing finish in St. Louis.

Trust me, folks -- I've followed this tournament almost since its inception in the mid-1970s, and this is the biggest upset in the D3 tourney that I can recall.

I honestly can't think of a bigger one.
Defiance over UW-Whitewater in 2015... UWW were the defending champs and ranked #2 entering the tournament (with 11 first place votes)... Defiance didn't just squeak by on Whitewater's court, they were up as much as 19 in the final minute.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 12:46:52 AM
That was a massive upset, too, especially since it occurred at UWW's Kachel Gym. But I still have to go with tonight's win, because I think that the '15 Defiance team had more credibility going into that game than this Aurora team had coming into tonight; heck, the Spartans lost three games this season to teams that finished well below .500 for the year. That '15 Defiance squad was the two-time defending champion of a better league than the NACC.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 03, 2018, 10:48:38 AM
I agree about the NACC vs the HCAC.

If we have the 5 or 6 power conferences, the HCAC is in that 2nd tier, IMHO.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 03, 2018, 12:13:45 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9ej71jsLiOM

Watched an extended version of the Aurora buzzer beater that includes Wash U's 3. The clock is set at 4 seconds before Wash U's inbounds play. It doesn't start until AFTER Wash U hits their 3 to tie it. Not sure how "official" the clock on the screen is...
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: WUPHF on March 03, 2018, 12:50:45 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 03, 2018, 12:13:45 PM
It doesn't start until AFTER Wash U hits their 3 to tie it. Not sure how "official" the clock on the screen is...

I finally watched the video and it confirms what I believed to be the case last night: the clock operator did everything right. 

The only thing Washington University has to complain about is the fact that three defenders looked completely lost on the in-bounds play.  Unfortunately, Washington University had already used their final two timeouts to set up that final three-point shot.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: rlgyank on March 03, 2018, 03:42:17 PM
Would somebody who is smarter than me let me know about possible hosting for the sectionals. Do you have to submit a bid for those rounds also, or do they just award those to someone? Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 03, 2018, 03:55:52 PM
Quote from: rlgyank on March 03, 2018, 03:42:17 PM
Would somebody who is smarter than me let me know about possible hosting for the sectionals. Do you have to submit a bid for those rounds also, or do they just award those to someone? Thanks in advance.

Submit bids.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 03, 2018, 03:58:11 PM
Quote from: WUPHF on March 03, 2018, 12:50:45 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 03, 2018, 12:13:45 PM
It doesn't start until AFTER Wash U hits their 3 to tie it. Not sure how "official" the clock on the screen is...

I finally watched the video and it confirms what I believed to be the case last night: the clock operator did everything right. 

The only thing Washington University has to complain about is the fact that three defenders looked completely lost on the in-bounds play.  Unfortunately, Washington University had already used their final two timeouts to set up that final three-point shot.

The Aurora player who has the ball after the bucket nearly pulls a "Chris Webber" and looks to nearly try to call a timeout before throwing the ball to the inbounds guy. They were out of timeouts.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 04:24:59 PM
Quote from: WUPHF on March 03, 2018, 12:50:45 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 03, 2018, 12:13:45 PM
It doesn't start until AFTER Wash U hits their 3 to tie it. Not sure how "official" the clock on the screen is...

I finally watched the video and it confirms what I believed to be the case last night: the clock operator did everything right. 

The only thing Washington University has to complain about is the fact that three defenders looked completely lost on the in-bounds play.

I don't know about that. I talked about this in the NACC room, and I think that, rather than blame the Bears, credit should be given to the Spartans for what I suspect may be a set last-second play installed by AU head coach Lance Robinson. Three of the Spartans stayed close in, while the fourth, Marcus Myers, turned and started walking up the floor before breaking into a sprint and heading for a specific spot on the floor (the left elbow) in the forecourt.

The Bears all started retreating after Nester hit his trey, showing great discipline in doing so by resisting the urge to celebrate a huge shot that potentially got them into overtime. But four of them (all but Knupp) stopped at the top of the key and turned back towards the inbounder, Max Vickers, because those three Spartans stayed close in to Vickers. That's just Basketball 101 -- in transition defense you always locate and stay close to your man, no matter what. Never mind the fact that none of those three Spartans was going to get off anything more than a 60-foot prayer shot at best if he caught the inbound and got in a dribble or two before flinging the ball towards the far basket. The Bears did what they had been trained to do.

Knupp at least got close enough to Myers, who had done such a magnificent job of disguising his intent by turning around with no sense of urgency after Nester's shot and walking up the floor, to get into the vicinity of the Spartans star when he released his shot. It's just asking too much of Knupp, or of any other defender, to read Myers's mind and react quickly enough to block the shot when Myers was heading to a specific spot on the floor on a dead sprint. Plus, the last thing that Knupp would've wanted to do in that situation was to risk fouling Myers when he (Myers) was taking such an unlikely shot, anyway. (Highsmith, on the other hand, came dangerously close to hitting Myers's outstretched arms from behind after flying up the floor in panic mode and taking a swipe at the shot a split second after it had left Myers's hands.) The most amazing thing about the entire play was that that shot went in, because everything about it screamed "miss" -- shooter off-balance, drifting to his left, not squared up, twenty feet from the basket.

I think that you're being too hard on the Bears regarding the endgame scenario. I think that the Spartans either showed five-way genius basketball improvisation or (more likely) perfectly executed something drawn up by Lance Robinson that they'd practiced for just this situation, and combined it with one of the most improbable buzzer-beaters in D3 this season, in order to win the game. Now, what happened before the endgame scenario, the 39:55 that produced the situation in which Wash U was fighting for its life on its own floor against a heavy underdog -- there's plenty of room for criticizing the Bears for that.

Incidentally, hat tip to Jay for a really great call on all of that craziness at the end of the game.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: WUPHF on March 03, 2018, 05:02:55 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 04:24:59 PM
I think that you're being too hard on the Bears regarding the endgame scenario. I think that the Spartans either showed five-way genius basketball improvisation or (more likely) perfectly executed something drawn up by Lance Robinson that they'd practiced for just this situation, [...]

There is no reason why Washington University should not have had a body on Marcus Myers.

Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 04:24:59 PM
Now, what happened before the endgame scenario, the 39:55 that produced the situation in which Wash U was fighting for its life on its own floor against a heavy underdog -- there's plenty of room for criticizing the Bears for that.

I certainly agree with this...

I was making an assumption that my comments would be taken in context of the comment I quoted which questioned whether or not there was an issue with the clock.

There were hundreds of clicks on the UAA thread in the hours since I last posted.  If you tell me you have yet to read any of my comments, I'll believe you.  But I have written in more detail than anyone else that I have seen about how Aurora won and Washington University lost the game.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 05:49:54 PM
Quote from: WUPHF on March 03, 2018, 05:02:55 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 04:24:59 PM
I think that you're being too hard on the Bears regarding the endgame scenario. I think that the Spartans either showed five-way genius basketball improvisation or (more likely) perfectly executed something drawn up by Lance Robinson that they'd practiced for just this situation, [...]

There is no reason why Washington University should not have had a body on Marcus Myers.

Sorry, but I just don't agree with that. Between the perfect dejected-walk deke that Myers pulled off, the fact that he ran directly to a specific spot, and the logical decision by Knupp not to risk a foul by making contact with Myers for what was obviously going to be a low-percentage shot, there's just no way that the Bears could've or should've bodied up Myers in such a short amount of time.

Quote from: WUPHF on March 03, 2018, 05:02:55 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 04:24:59 PM
Now, what happened before the endgame scenario, the 39:55 that produced the situation in which Wash U was fighting for its life on its own floor against a heavy underdog -- there's plenty of room for criticizing the Bears for that.

I certainly agree with this...

I was making an assumption that my comments would be taken in context of the comment I quoted which questioned whether or not there was an issue with the clock.

There were hundreds of clicks on the UAA thread in the hours since I last posted.  If you tell me you have yet to read any of my comments, I'll believe you.  But I have written in more detail than anyone else that I have seen about how Aurora won and Washington University lost the game.

I read your comments last night. I didn't comment on the UAA board because I thought that you perfectly captured the gist of why the game played out the way that it did.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Mr. Mo on March 03, 2018, 05:59:02 PM
According to the Aurora players on the court after the game, that is their last second shot play.  They have practiced it all season.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 03, 2018, 06:25:42 PM
Quote from: Mr. Mo on March 03, 2018, 05:59:02 PM
According to the Aurora players on the court after the game, that is their last second shot play.  They have practiced it all season.a
+1!  Last second play. Congrats to Aurora!
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Mr. Mo on March 03, 2018, 06:42:49 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9ej71jsLiOM
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 08:36:55 PM
Down goes Williams! The Ephs played Wile E. Coyote to the visiting Roadrunners, as Ramapo walks off the floor with a 66-62 win.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 08:39:46 PM
... and down goes Wittenberg as well. UW-Oshkosh coughed up a 17-point lead, but outlasted the host Tigers in a close one down the stretch, 68-60.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 08:42:23 PM
Emory nips LeTourneau, 83-82.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 08:49:17 PM
It's now officially a bloodbath for the home teams, as Christopher Newport loses on its own floor to F&M, 66-52.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 03, 2018, 08:51:17 PM
York goes down.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 08:51:21 PM
Yet another home team spits out the bit, as visiting Hamilton holds off York (PA), 69-66.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 08:52:13 PM
And another home team loses, as Springfield knocks off Cabrini, 96-88.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 08:54:45 PM
And yet another home loss, as Wesleyan falls to visiting Swarthmore, 97-75.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 08:55:59 PM
John Carroll bucks the trend by defending its home floor with a 91-85 win over Wooster.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 03, 2018, 08:57:20 PM
Wow.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 08:57:31 PM
Home cooking wasn't kind to Eastern Connecticut, either, as the Warriors were blitzed by visiting Middlebury, 83-58.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 09:00:31 PM
SUNY Plattsburgh survives at home, taking down Union in the North Country by a 87-75 score. Absolutely sick game for Jonathan Patron, as he had 39 and 18.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 09:44:10 PM
UW-Platteville wards off tonight's homecourt hex by surviving St. Olaf's comeback attempt en route to a 73-68 win.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 09:45:51 PM
Nebraska Wesleyan moves on with an 82-61 win over Aurora in St. Louis.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 09:51:35 PM
Another homecourt victim: Johns Hopkins, which succumbed to MIT in Baltimore, 62-54.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 09:53:03 PM
Augustana beats Hope in Rock Island, 95-83.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 09:56:23 PM
To nobody's surprise, UWSP breaks Bethany Lutheran's glass slipper and sends Cinderella home from Collegeville, MN with an 82-44 loss.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 03, 2018, 09:58:43 PM
John Carroll to Augustana is 503 miles :-\
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 10:03:47 PM
With CMS @ Whitman just underway, the home teams have gone 5-8 thus far tonight, with the other two games played on neutral floors.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Titan Q on March 03, 2018, 10:06:12 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 03, 2018, 09:58:43 PM
John Carroll to Augustana is 503 miles :-\

Seems like that sectional is heading to Rock Island.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 10:07:17 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 03, 2018, 09:58:43 PM
John Carroll to Augustana is 503 miles :-\

JCU will get to fly to Quad Cities International Airport, then, because I'm pretty sure that Augie is going to host the sectional. UW-Oshkosh and Augie are the only two schools within busing distance among the four, and Augie's seeded highly enough to be a host while UWO isn't.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: iwumichigander on March 03, 2018, 10:10:15 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 10:07:17 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 03, 2018, 09:58:43 PM
John Carroll to Augustana is 503 miles :-\

JCU will get to fly to Quad Cities International Airport, then, because I'm pretty sure that Augie is going to host the sectional. UW-Oshkosh and Augie are the only two schools within busing distance among the four, and Augie's seeded highly enough to be a host while UWO isn't.
If you measure it by the way Coach G's coat flys, I am sure it is 499 miles  :D ;D :o
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: AndOne on March 03, 2018, 10:10:33 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 09:45:51 PM
Nebraska Wesleyan moves on with an 82-61 win over Aurora in St. Louis.

I think Nebraska Wesleyan's non-conference schedule caused a sizable chunk of fans, analysts, and poll voters to underestimate their overall level of talent and capabilities.

Can anyone explain how the NCAA looks at host sites for the 3rd and 4th rounds? If a team hosted games last evening and tonight, does that make any difference as far as hosting again next weekend?
Is it all dependent on the remaining seeds? Thanks.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Titan Q on March 03, 2018, 10:14:40 PM
Quote from: AndOne on March 03, 2018, 10:10:33 PM
Can anyone explain how the NCAA looks at host sites for the 3rd and 4th rounds? If a team hosted games last evening and tonight, does that make any difference as far as hosting again next weekend?
Is it all dependent on the remaining seeds? Thanks.

http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2018DIIIMBB_Pre-Champs_Manual_20180124.pdf

The Championships Committee has prioritized the following site-selection criteria for all championships:
1. Complete bid;
2. Quality and availability of the facility and other necessary accommodations;
3. Geographical location (which may include such factors as rotation of sites, weather, accessibility and transportation costs);
4. Seeding; and
5. Attendance history, hosting history and revenue potential, which shall be considered necessary to assure  scal responsibility.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Titan Q on March 03, 2018, 10:17:21 PM
Whitman, UW-Stevens Point, Nebraska Wesleyan, UW-Platteville...

That would be at UW-Platteville.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 03, 2018, 10:21:03 PM
Quote from: AndOne on March 03, 2018, 10:10:33 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 09:45:51 PM
Nebraska Wesleyan moves on with an 82-61 win over Aurora in St. Louis.

I think Nebraska Wesleyan's non-conference schedule caused a sizable chunk of fans, analysts, and poll voters to underestimate their overall level of talent and capabilities.

Can anyone explain how the NCAA looks at host sites for the 3rd and 4th rounds? If a team hosted games last evening and tonight, does that make any difference as far as hosting again next weekend?
Is it all dependent on the remaining seeds? Thanks.

All of the computer ratings systems had Nebraska Wesleyan in the top five or six at the end of the season.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 10:22:50 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on March 03, 2018, 10:17:21 PM
Whitman, UW-Stevens Point, Nebraska Wesleyan, UW-Platteville...

That would be at UW-Platteville.

Yep.

Ramapo, F&M, Middlebury, and MIT? Your guess is as good as mine. It's an all-busing sectional, we know that. But none of thees four teams hosted this weekend, so none of them are high seeds.

Swarthmore, Plattsburgh State, Hamilton, and Springfield is also an all-busing sectional.This one has a likely host, though, as Plattsburgh State was seeded highly enough to host a pod this weekend. I think that this sectional will be up in the North Country.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 10:27:47 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 03, 2018, 10:21:03 PM
Quote from: AndOne on March 03, 2018, 10:10:33 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 09:45:51 PM
Nebraska Wesleyan moves on with an 82-61 win over Aurora in St. Louis.

I think Nebraska Wesleyan's non-conference schedule caused a sizable chunk of fans, analysts, and poll voters to underestimate their overall level of talent and capabilities.

Can anyone explain how the NCAA looks at host sites for the 3rd and 4th rounds? If a team hosted games last evening and tonight, does that make any difference as far as hosting again next weekend?
Is it all dependent on the remaining seeds? Thanks.

All of the computer ratings systems had Nebraska Wesleyan in the top five or six at the end of the season.

Based upon the fact that NebWes had two of the best players in last season's IIAC, Nate Schimonitz and Cooper Cook, coming back this season, I knew that the Prairie Wolves would be good. If anything, it looks like several other NWU players, such as Deion Wells-Ross and Ryan Garver, have emerged this season as stars, too.

With all of the carnage that took place this weekend, NebWes looks to me to be one of the remaining favorites.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: BobbyO on March 03, 2018, 10:44:06 PM
Looking at map quest it appears that Emory is a little over 500 to John Carroll, Augie and Oshkosh barely under 500.  Emory is the highest ranked at 6th, Augie is 9th, John Carroll is 20th and Oshkosh is 23rd.  I doubt that the NCAA would fly Augie and Oshkosh to Atlanta.  Emory would be the only one that would have to be transported via air.  If the look at rankings it should be at Augie.  John Carroll is the most central to other schools.  I am pulling for Rock Island IL at the Carver Center.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: AndOne on March 03, 2018, 10:44:19 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 03, 2018, 10:21:03 PM
Quote from: AndOne on March 03, 2018, 10:10:33 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 09:45:51 PM
Nebraska Wesleyan moves on with an 82-61 win over Aurora in St. Louis.

I think Nebraska Wesleyan's non-conference schedule caused a sizable chunk of fans, analysts, and poll voters to underestimate their overall level of talent and capabilities.

Can anyone explain how the NCAA looks at host sites for the 3rd and 4th rounds? If a team hosted games last evening and tonight, does that make any difference as far as hosting again next weekend?
Is it all dependent on the remaining seeds? Thanks.

All of the computer ratings systems had Nebraska Wesleyan in the top five or six at the end of the season.

Yet NWU couldn't crack the Top 25 in the most recent D3Hoops Poll. 🤷🏻‍♂️ 🤔  ???
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 03, 2018, 10:46:47 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 10:27:47 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 03, 2018, 10:21:03 PM
Quote from: AndOne on March 03, 2018, 10:10:33 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 09:45:51 PM
Nebraska Wesleyan moves on with an 82-61 win over Aurora in St. Louis.

I think Nebraska Wesleyan's non-conference schedule caused a sizable chunk of fans, analysts, and poll voters to underestimate their overall level of talent and capabilities.

Can anyone explain how the NCAA looks at host sites for the 3rd and 4th rounds? If a team hosted games last evening and tonight, does that make any difference as far as hosting again next weekend?
Is it all dependent on the remaining seeds? Thanks.

All of the computer ratings systems had Nebraska Wesleyan in the top five or six at the end of the season.

Based upon the fact that NebWes had two of the best players in last season's IIAC, Nate Schimonitz and Cooper Cook, coming back this season, I knew that the Prairie Wolves would be good. If anything, it looks like several other NWU players, such as Deion Wells-Ross and Ryan Garver, have emerged this season as stars, too.

With all of the carnage that took place this weekend, NebWes looks to me to be one of the remaining favorites.

In a sectional that includes Whitman/CMS, Platteville and Point?
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: AndOne on March 03, 2018, 10:47:31 PM
Quote from: BobbyO on March 03, 2018, 10:44:06 PM
Looking at map quest it appears that Emory is a little over 500 to John Carroll, Augie and Oshkosh barely under 500.  Emory is the highest ranked at 6th, Augie is 9th, John Carroll is 20th and Oshkosh is 23rd.  I doubt that the NCAA would fly Augie and Oshkosh to Atlanta.  Emory would be the only one that would have to be transported via air.  If the look at rankings it should be at Augie.  John Carroll is the most central to other schools.  I am pulling for Rock Island IL at the Carver Center.

I don't believe the D3Hoops rankings have anything at all to do with it. It's only the NCAA seedlings that matter.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 03, 2018, 10:51:05 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 10:22:50 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on March 03, 2018, 10:17:21 PM
Whitman, UW-Stevens Point, Nebraska Wesleyan, UW-Platteville...

That would be at UW-Platteville.

Yep.

Ramapo, F&M, Middlebury, and MIT? Your guess is as good as mine. It's an all-busing sectional, we know that. But none of thees four teams hosted this weekend, so none of them are high seeds.

Swarthmore, Plattsburgh State, Hamilton, and Springfield is also an all-busing sectional.This one has a likely host, though, as Plattsburgh State was seeded highly enough to host a pod this weekend. I think that this sectional will be up in the North Country.

Selfishly, I'm hoping for Ramapo. It's the most central option in that sectional, and the only one I can reasonably drive to after work on Friday!

Plattsburgh probably deserves to host, but will they bid? They're going to have NCAA women's hockey at their rink next weekend for sure, but that's just one game.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 03, 2018, 10:52:50 PM
Unless they put the court on top of the rink, I don't see why Plattsburgh wouldn't host...or wouldn't WANT to for that matter.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: njf1003 on March 03, 2018, 10:53:32 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 10:22:50 PM

Yep.

Ramapo, F&M, Middlebury, and MIT? Your guess is as good as mine. It's an all-busing sectional, we know that. But none of thees four teams hosted this weekend, so none of them are high seeds.
I'd wager a guess at Ramapo since they were second regionally in the final rankings. But Middlebury might have a stronger case. And it all depend on who put in to host week 2.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Onward on, John Carroll on March 03, 2018, 10:59:38 PM
Quote from: BobbyO on March 03, 2018, 10:44:06 PM
Looking at map quest it appears that Emory is a little over 500 to John Carroll, Augie and Oshkosh barely under 500.  Emory is the highest ranked at 6th, Augie is 9th, John Carroll is 20th and Oshkosh is 23rd.  I doubt that the NCAA would fly Augie and Oshkosh to Atlanta.  Emory would be the only one that would have to be transported via air.  If the look at rankings it should be at Augie.  John Carroll is the most central to other schools.  I am pulling for Rock Island IL at the Carver Center.

The NCAA doesn't use MapQuest. They measure mileage at this site:
https://web1.ncaa.org/TES/exec/miles

Using that system, it's likely Augustana. All three teams would need to fly to Emory so they're out. All three teams would need to fly to Cleveland so JCU is out.

So, it's either Augustana or Oshkosh to save a flight. Augustana is the higher seed (they hosted this weekend and Oshkosh didn't). So...to Augustana.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 11:01:09 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 03, 2018, 10:46:47 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 10:27:47 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 03, 2018, 10:21:03 PM
Quote from: AndOne on March 03, 2018, 10:10:33 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 09:45:51 PM
Nebraska Wesleyan moves on with an 82-61 win over Aurora in St. Louis.

I think Nebraska Wesleyan's non-conference schedule caused a sizable chunk of fans, analysts, and poll voters to underestimate their overall level of talent and capabilities.

Can anyone explain how the NCAA looks at host sites for the 3rd and 4th rounds? If a team hosted games last evening and tonight, does that make any difference as far as hosting again next weekend?
Is it all dependent on the remaining seeds? Thanks.

All of the computer ratings systems had Nebraska Wesleyan in the top five or six at the end of the season.

Based upon the fact that NebWes had two of the best players in last season's IIAC, Nate Schimonitz and Cooper Cook, coming back this season, I knew that the Prairie Wolves would be good. If anything, it looks like several other NWU players, such as Deion Wells-Ross and Ryan Garver, have emerged this season as stars, too.

With all of the carnage that took place this weekend, NebWes looks to me to be one of the remaining favorites.

In a sectional that includes Whitman/CMS, Platteville and Point?

Yes. I still like Whitman to win that sectional, but NebWes has a very good shot if Whitman falters.

Actually, I think that whichever team that wins this sectional is the favorite going into Salem.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: AndOne on March 03, 2018, 11:03:08 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 03, 2018, 10:46:47 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 10:27:47 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 03, 2018, 10:21:03 PM
Quote from: AndOne on March 03, 2018, 10:10:33 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 09:45:51 PM
Nebraska Wesleyan moves on with an 82-61 win over Aurora in St. Louis.

I think Nebraska Wesleyan's non-conference schedule caused a sizable chunk of fans, analysts, and poll voters to underestimate their overall level of talent and capabilities.

Can anyone explain how the NCAA looks at host sites for the 3rd and 4th rounds? If a team hosted games last evening and tonight, does that make any difference as far as hosting again next weekend?
Is it all dependent on the remaining seeds? Thanks.

All of the computer ratings systems had Nebraska Wesleyan in the top five or six at the end of the season.

Based upon the fact that NebWes had two of the best players in last season's IIAC, Nate Schimonitz and Cooper Cook, coming back this season, I knew that the Prairie Wolves would be good. If anything, it looks like several other NWU players, such as Deion Wells-Ross and Ryan Garver, have emerged this season as stars, too.

With all of the carnage that took place this weekend, NebWes looks to me to be one of the remaining favorites.

In a sectional that includes Whitman/CMS, Platteville and Point?

Other than their top ranking, I don't really know anything about Whitman. However, if NWU plays either Platt or Point, I'd be willing to wager a small sum on NWU coming out on top. 😏
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 11:03:30 PM
Quote from: Onward on, John Carroll on March 03, 2018, 10:59:38 PM
Quote from: BobbyO on March 03, 2018, 10:44:06 PM
Looking at map quest it appears that Emory is a little over 500 to John Carroll, Augie and Oshkosh barely under 500.  Emory is the highest ranked at 6th, Augie is 9th, John Carroll is 20th and Oshkosh is 23rd.  I doubt that the NCAA would fly Augie and Oshkosh to Atlanta.  Emory would be the only one that would have to be transported via air.  If the look at rankings it should be at Augie.  John Carroll is the most central to other schools.  I am pulling for Rock Island IL at the Carver Center.

The NCAA doesn't use MapQuest. They measure mileage at this site:
https://web1.ncaa.org/TES/exec/miles

Using that system, it's likely Augustana. All three teams would need to fly to Emory so they're out. All three teams would need to fly to Cleveland so JCU is out.

So, it's either Augustana or Oshkosh to save a flight. Augustana is the higher seed (they hosted this weekend and Oshkosh didn't). So...to Augustana.

Yes, thank you, OOJC, for confirming this and saving me the trouble of pulling up TES in spite of the fact that I was already pretty sure about it. :D
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: spwood on March 03, 2018, 11:06:28 PM
Quote

Plattsburgh probably deserves to host, but will they bid? They're going to have NCAA women's hockey at their rink next weekend for sure, but that's just one game.

They didn’t have any problems hosting under these conditions this weekend (plus hosting 3 high school sectional basketball games).  The hockey and basketball teams don’t play in the same building.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 11:07:52 PM
Quote from: AndOne on March 03, 2018, 11:03:08 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 03, 2018, 10:46:47 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 10:27:47 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 03, 2018, 10:21:03 PM
Quote from: AndOne on March 03, 2018, 10:10:33 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 09:45:51 PM
Nebraska Wesleyan moves on with an 82-61 win over Aurora in St. Louis.

I think Nebraska Wesleyan's non-conference schedule caused a sizable chunk of fans, analysts, and poll voters to underestimate their overall level of talent and capabilities.

Can anyone explain how the NCAA looks at host sites for the 3rd and 4th rounds? If a team hosted games last evening and tonight, does that make any difference as far as hosting again next weekend?
Is it all dependent on the remaining seeds? Thanks.

All of the computer ratings systems had Nebraska Wesleyan in the top five or six at the end of the season.

Based upon the fact that NebWes had two of the best players in last season's IIAC, Nate Schimonitz and Cooper Cook, coming back this season, I knew that the Prairie Wolves would be good. If anything, it looks like several other NWU players, such as Deion Wells-Ross and Ryan Garver, have emerged this season as stars, too.

With all of the carnage that took place this weekend, NebWes looks to me to be one of the remaining favorites.

In a sectional that includes Whitman/CMS, Platteville and Point?

Other than their top ranking, I don't really know anything about Whitman.

The Blues are playing right now, Mark. Turn on the game and watch them.

Quote from: AndOne on March 03, 2018, 11:03:08 PMHowever, if NWU plays either Platt or Point, I'd be willing to wager a small sum on NWU coming out on top. 😏

A Whitman vs. NebWes sectional final might break the scoreboard.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Onward on, John Carroll on March 03, 2018, 11:11:01 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 11:03:30 PM
Quote from: Onward on, John Carroll on March 03, 2018, 10:59:38 PM
Quote from: BobbyO on March 03, 2018, 10:44:06 PM
Looking at map quest it appears that Emory is a little over 500 to John Carroll, Augie and Oshkosh barely under 500.  Emory is the highest ranked at 6th, Augie is 9th, John Carroll is 20th and Oshkosh is 23rd.  I doubt that the NCAA would fly Augie and Oshkosh to Atlanta.  Emory would be the only one that would have to be transported via air.  If the look at rankings it should be at Augie.  John Carroll is the most central to other schools.  I am pulling for Rock Island IL at the Carver Center.

The NCAA doesn't use MapQuest. They measure mileage at this site:
https://web1.ncaa.org/TES/exec/miles

Using that system, it's likely Augustana. All three teams would need to fly to Emory so they're out. All three teams would need to fly to Cleveland so JCU is out.

So, it's either Augustana or Oshkosh to save a flight. Augustana is the higher seed (they hosted this weekend and Oshkosh didn't). So...to Augustana.

Yes, thank you, OOJC, for confirming this and saving me the trouble of pulling up TES in spite of the fact that I was already pretty sure about it. :D

My pleasure. It was closer than I thought, though. JCU-Augustana was 503 miles. JCU-UWO is 530 miles.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 03, 2018, 11:45:07 PM
No love for the WIAC, that's ok.  ;D
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Rofrog on March 03, 2018, 11:46:55 PM
I'm not sure if they care about the mileage at this time.I remember last year on the women's side they shipped Scranton,Tufts and I think Oshkosh to St Louis way over 500 miles for them two teams.But who knows!
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 11:53:17 PM
Whitman and CMS going to overtime. Tim Howell seriously gacked at the free throw line in this one. He missed two FTs with half a second remaining and the game tied. All told, he missed four out of five FTs in the final 67 seconds of regulation.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: njf1003 on March 03, 2018, 11:54:17 PM
Quote from: Rofrog on March 03, 2018, 11:46:55 PM
I'm not sure if they care about the mileage at this time.I remember last year on the women's side they shipped Scranton,Tufts and I think Oshkosh to St Louis way over 500 miles for them two teams.But who knows!
They might fly an extra team, but probably not. Maybe both of the bussing schools didn't submit to host for some reason or another. If two teams are within 500 miles of one another, it is highly likely one of those two will host.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 11:56:11 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 03, 2018, 11:45:07 PM
No love for the WIAC, that's ok.  ;D

How in the world does this:

Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2018, 11:01:09 PM
Actually, I think that whichever team that wins this sectional is the favorite going into Salem.

... count as "no love for the WIAC"?
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 04, 2018, 12:07:27 AM
Whitman managed to grind out an 89-84 overtime win over a gritty CMS squad to round out the field of 16.

Howell atoned for his end-of-regulation clankitude from the charity stripe by hitting all six of his OT throws, including four in the final twenty seconds.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: ronk on March 04, 2018, 12:09:55 AM
Quote from: Rofrog on March 03, 2018, 11:46:55 PM
I'm not sure if they care about the mileage at this time.I remember last year on the women's side they shipped Scranton,Tufts and I think Oshkosh to St Louis way over 500 miles for them two teams.But who knows!

Oshkosh and Washington were the only 2 of the 4 within 500 miles of each other, so Wash U was the higher seed and got to host; Scranton and Tufts were flying(2 flights) no matter which was chosen. Geography(< 500 miles) is a major factor in the sectional host choice.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: AllStar on March 04, 2018, 12:58:02 AM
Through the first weekend:
(https://i.imgur.com/7cNyq6w.png)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: AndOne on March 04, 2018, 12:58:51 AM
Although I know things unfortunately aren't going to change, I can't help but thinking it's a shame that geography plays such a vital role in site determination. That's because the result is often that a team gets it's first four games all at home. If the NCAA wants a true national championship tournament they need to move a percent or two of the multi million dollars they make from the D1 tournament and spent it on a few flights for D3 teams. Otherwise if they allow a team to host both the first two weekends they may just as well call it the (insert team name) Invitational instead of the National Tournament. It just seems inherently unfair to let a team potentially have four home games to get to the Final Four. Any team put in such an advantageous position should be ashamed if they don't make it to Salem.

I understand others might have a differing opinion, and I have no problem with that. I only ask if such is the case, that you please explain your thinking 🤔. Thanks.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: AndOne on March 04, 2018, 01:17:06 AM
Quote from: AllStar on March 04, 2018, 12:58:02 AM
Through the first weekend:
(https://i.imgur.com/7cNyq6w.png)

Nice work, AllStar. Did you major in something like interactive media technology or convergent media?  8-)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 04, 2018, 07:28:46 AM
Hosts were 14-2 in the 1st round (Wash U and St. John's)

They were just 6-8 in the 2nd round.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 04, 2018, 07:54:41 AM
Interestingly, the two teams that beat host schools in the 1st round, Bethany Lutheran over St. John's and Aurora over Wash U, neither won their 2nd round game. Bethany Lutheran lost to Stevens Point 82-44 and Aurora lost to Nebraska Wesleyan 82-61.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Titan Q on March 04, 2018, 08:00:42 AM
Quote from: BobbyO on March 03, 2018, 10:44:06 PM
Looking at map quest it appears that Emory is a little over 500 to John Carroll, Augie and Oshkosh barely under 500.  Emory is the highest ranked at 6th, Augie is 9th, John Carroll is 20th and Oshkosh is 23rd.  I doubt that the NCAA would fly Augie and Oshkosh to Atlanta.  Emory would be the only one that would have to be transported via air.  If the look at rankings it should be at Augie.  John Carroll is the most central to other schools.  I am pulling for Rock Island IL at the Carver Center.

The D3hoops.com Top 25 rankings are not a factor.  Just the numbers from the official selection/seeding criteria.

I believe the seeding order of these 4 teams is:

http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2018/02/men-regional-rankings-final

1. Augustana: .815 (22-5)/.572/8-3  Central #1
2. John Carroll: .821 (23-5)/.544/7-2  Great Lakes #2
3. Emory: .840 (21-4)/.530/4-2  South #1
4. UW-Oshkosh: .741 (20-7)/.555/4-4  Central #5

Since this is a 2 flight situation either way, there is no reason to not give it to the highest seed.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 04, 2018, 08:13:25 AM
Quote from: AndOne on March 04, 2018, 12:58:51 AM
Although I know things unfortunately aren't going to change, I can't help but thinking it's a shame that geography plays such a vital role in site determination. That's because the result is often that a team gets it's first four games all at home. If the NCAA wants a true national championship tournament they need to move a percent or two of the multi million dollars they make from the D1 tournament and spent it on a few flights for D3 teams. Otherwise if they allow a team to host both the first two weekends they may just as well call it the (insert team name) Invitational instead of the National Tournament. It just seems inherently unfair to let a team potentially have four home games to get to the Final Four. Any team put in such an advantageous position should be ashamed if they don't make it to Salem.

I understand others might have a differing opinion, and I have no problem with that. I only ask if such is the case, that you please explain your thinking 🤔. Thanks.

Well, then, I guess that all of the men's basketball tournaments that D3 has held since the division's inception in the mid-'70s have not been "true national championship tournaments", because higher seeds have been hosting multiple rounds since the very beginning. What's more, since this model is followed by a large number of the other D3 sports as well for their championships, I guess that the football, volleyball, women's basketball, lacrosse (men's & women's), etc. national championship tournaments have all been fake as well. It seems a shame that so many of us have spent so many years following fake championships, and that so many people over the years have derived so much pleasure from seeing their teams win something that obviously isn't valid. Perhaps some good can come of this, however, by taking all of those Walnut & Bronze trophies that apparently have no value whatsoever to the schools that clearly didn't earn them properly, due to the tournaments being fake, and giving them to other organizations to be re-purposed. I'll bet that, with a little modification, they'd make dandy Employee of the Month trophies for the local Office Depot, Jo-Ann Fabrics, and Burger King franchises located near the schools that won those fake championships.

Since D3 championships are funded on D1's dime, and since D1 owes nothing whatsoever to D3 in return, the desire for D1 to cough up more money to fund either several extra flights or the rental fees for neutral-site sectional venues that will be largely empty constitutes nothing more than wishful thinking. Personally, I'd rather spend my time and energy conversing about pragmatic, real-world aspects of D3 championship tournaments than making conjectures about something that will never happen ... but perhaps that's just me.

I also don't see the point of wishing for more flight money if the purpose is to prevent an "(insert team name) Invitational", because that's a completely separate issue. What's the reasoning behind flying three teams to Walla Walla in that case? Whitman's already hosted a pod. All you're doing is defeating your own purpose, which is to prevent teams from hosting two weekends' worth of games.

I don't see the competitive logic in the other alternative, which would be to award sectional hosting privileges to teams that didn't host first-weekend pods, which means, in effect, disqualifying teams that hosted pods from hosting sectionals. That completely throws seeding right out the window.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 04, 2018, 08:17:18 AM
Is there any leniency on the 500 mile rule? University Heights to Rock Island is 507 on Google maps (I know that's not what the NCAA uses). I just think they'd save a plane full of money by making JCU bus an extra 15 minutes.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 04, 2018, 08:24:29 AM
Regarding the new poll:

I considered three teams. I thought about F&M because they were one of the three teams, I feel, were underdogs in both games. However, there was some argument that CNU shouldn't have even hosted, being ranked lower than Swarthmore, who got shipped to Wesleyan. I nearly picked Springfield since they were probably one of the last Pool C teams picked and many experts didn't have them making the field. However, Cabrini was probably one of the weakest hosts, barely getting by Staten Island. So, I ended up with Oshkosh. Now I realize they are from the WIAC, but they finished 3rd and didn't make the conference final. They played Marietta in the 1st round and were probably underdogs and then played host Wittenberg.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 04, 2018, 08:30:05 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 04, 2018, 08:17:18 AM
Is there any leniency on the 500 mile rule? University Heights to Rock Island is 507 on Google maps (I know that's not what the NCAA uses). I just think they'd save a plane full of money by making JCU bus an extra 15 minutes.

No, there isn't. The 500-mile-radius rule is arbitrary -- there's no reason why the NCAA couldn't have set the radius at 510 miles, or 490 miles, when it made the rule -- but there are a lot of rules in life that are arbitrary. The point, however, is to set the marker and keep it there, so that everybody understands it and knows well ahead of time what the rule is. If you make exceptions here and there for the sake of a few miles, then the rule ceases to have any meaning. It stops being a rule altogether, and then you have the anarchy of a team complaining, "Hey, you let Team A fly last year when it was 480 miles from the site ... well, we're only 479 miles from our site, so why do we have to take the bus?"

There's no reason why JCU has to fly. Blue Streaks head coach Pete Moran, or the JCU athletic director, could opt to bus his team to Rock Island instead. It's certainly not unheard-of for teams to take the busing option even when the NCAA offers the team the opportunity to fly on the NCAA's dime. If I remember correctly, Grey Giovanine has elected to have Augustana bus to Salem, for example, for Augie's two Final Four trips over the past three seasons.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Titan Q on March 04, 2018, 08:30:58 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 04, 2018, 08:17:18 AM
Is there any leniency on the 500 mile rule? University Heights to Rock Island is 507 on Google maps (I know that's not what the NCAA uses). I just think they'd save a plane full of money by making JCU bus an extra 15 minutes.

No leniency on the rule in terms of making these decisions.  But teams can choose to bus instead of fly if it works better for them.

Like John Carroll to Augustana.  There is no great way to flight that.  You either go Cleveland to Detroit to Quad Cities, or Cleveland to Chicago and then drive 2.5 hours.  You'd actually get there faster by just getting on the bus and doing the 7:30 drive.

Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Titan Q on March 04, 2018, 08:31:50 AM
By the way, there is a direct flight from Atlanta (Emory) to Quad Cities.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Onward on, John Carroll on March 04, 2018, 08:44:15 AM
Quote from: AndOne on March 04, 2018, 12:58:51 AM
Although I know things unfortunately aren't going to change, I can't help but thinking it's a shame that geography plays such a vital role in site determination. That's because the result is often that a team gets it's first four games all at home. If the NCAA wants a true national championship tournament they need to move a percent or two of the multi million dollars they make from the D1 tournament and spent it on a few flights for D3 teams. Otherwise if they allow a team to host both the first two weekends they may just as well call it the (insert team name) Invitational instead of the National Tournament. It just seems inherently unfair to let a team potentially have four home games to get to the Final Four. Any team put in such an advantageous position should be ashamed if they don't make it to Salem.

I understand others might have a differing opinion, and I have no problem with that. I only ask if such is the case, that you please explain your thinking 🤔. Thanks.

Are you suggesting they go to pre-determined neutral sectional sites? If so, I don't think that is a good idea. First, I do not think there would be many schools or communities that would want to bid for these games as the financial impact of 4 schools arriving for two days and 3 basketball games would be minimal. Second, the atmosphere (admittedly because of the home court advantage you want to avoid, provides it) would consist of a friends and family crowd in gyms devoid of excitement for the most part. The only exceptions would be, in my opinion, when a team with a nice fan base is assigned to a pseudo local site.

The NCAA could tell schools that if you want to host, and apply to host, you are agreeing to host and staff games that are assigned to you regardless of your school's participation. Then the NCAA could assign games to a place "in the middle" to avoid the flights as much as possible. For example, the JCU-Emory-Auggie-UWO sectional could be at Wabash so three schools instead of two could drive. This, of course, is sensitive to the money issue that you think shouldn't be an issue but it takes away home court advantage.

I think you're confusing two issues. I don't think the budget increasing solves the home court issue, necessarily. But, admittedly, going to neutral predetermined sites could increase costs (it could also give us really bad sites, inconvenient for all schools). Assigning the sectional games to neutral sites which limit flights would solve home court advantage but it would strip the games of any excitement. Have you ever been in a gym on a Saturday for a sectional final after the home team loses on Friday? I have and the amount of people and atmosphere in the gym reminded me of a non conference game in December while the students are on Christmas Break. I'm short, it doesn't scream "Elite Eight!!"  While that happens even under the present system, you are almost guaranteeing it to it happen with neutral sites 90% of the time, I would guess.

Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Onward on, John Carroll on March 04, 2018, 08:58:35 AM
Quote from: Titan Q on March 04, 2018, 08:30:58 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 04, 2018, 08:17:18 AM
Is there any leniency on the 500 mile rule? University Heights to Rock Island is 507 on Google maps (I know that's not what the NCAA uses). I just think they'd save a plane full of money by making JCU bus an extra 15 minutes.

No leniency on the rule in terms of making these decisions.  But teams can choose to bus instead of fly if it works better for them.

Like John Carroll to Augustana.  There is no great way to flight that.  You either go Cleveland to Detroit to Quad Cities, or Cleveland to Chicago and then drive 2.5 hours.  You'd actually get there faster by just getting on the bus and doing the 7:30 drive.

I know football uses charter flights but I assume that is because of the size of the travel party. Do they charter basketball teams?  If not, I'm with you on JCU to Quad Cities. That's a very incovenient flight. JCU may bus them. It'll be interesting to see what Coach Moran decides.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Onward on, John Carroll on March 04, 2018, 09:02:30 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 04, 2018, 08:30:05 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 04, 2018, 08:17:18 AM
Is there any leniency on the 500 mile rule? University Heights to Rock Island is 507 on Google maps (I know that's not what the NCAA uses). I just think they'd save a plane full of money by making JCU bus an extra 15 minutes.

No, there isn't. The 500-mile-radius rule is arbitrary -- there's no reason why the NCAA couldn't have set the radius at 510 miles, or 490 miles, when it made the rule -- but there are a lot of rules in life that are arbitrary. The point, however, is to set the marker and keep it there, so that everybody understands it and knows well ahead of time what the rule is. If you make exceptions here and there for the sake of a few miles, then the rule ceases to have any meaning. It stops being a rule altogether, and then you have the anarchy of a team complaining, "Hey, you let Team A fly last year when it was 480 miles from the site ... well, we're only 479 miles from our site, so why do we have to take the bus?"

There's no reason why JCU has to fly. Blue Streaks head coach Pete Moran, or the JCU athletic director, could opt to bus his team to Rock Island instead. It's certainly not unheard-of for teams to take the busing option even when the NCAA offers the team the opportunity to fly on the NCAA's dime. If I remember correctly, Grey Giovanine has elected to have Augustana bus to Salem, for example, for Augie's two Final Four trips over the past three seasons.

However, I don't think the reverse is true. I don't think you're allowed to fly if it's under 500 miles even if you pay for it yourself. I remember Mount getting dinged for that on their first or second Stagg Bowl trip. They flew even thought it was under 500 miles - they chartered a team flight and a fan flight. Of course, maybe the rules changed.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 04, 2018, 09:10:07 AM
Quote from: Onward on, John Carroll on March 04, 2018, 09:02:30 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 04, 2018, 08:30:05 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 04, 2018, 08:17:18 AM
Is there any leniency on the 500 mile rule? University Heights to Rock Island is 507 on Google maps (I know that's not what the NCAA uses). I just think they'd save a plane full of money by making JCU bus an extra 15 minutes.

No, there isn't. The 500-mile-radius rule is arbitrary -- there's no reason why the NCAA couldn't have set the radius at 510 miles, or 490 miles, when it made the rule -- but there are a lot of rules in life that are arbitrary. The point, however, is to set the marker and keep it there, so that everybody understands it and knows well ahead of time what the rule is. If you make exceptions here and there for the sake of a few miles, then the rule ceases to have any meaning. It stops being a rule altogether, and then you have the anarchy of a team complaining, "Hey, you let Team A fly last year when it was 480 miles from the site ... well, we're only 479 miles from our site, so why do we have to take the bus?"

There's no reason why JCU has to fly. Blue Streaks head coach Pete Moran, or the JCU athletic director, could opt to bus his team to Rock Island instead. It's certainly not unheard-of for teams to take the busing option even when the NCAA offers the team the opportunity to fly on the NCAA's dime. If I remember correctly, Grey Giovanine has elected to have Augustana bus to Salem, for example, for Augie's two Final Four trips over the past three seasons.

However, I don't think the reverse is true. I don't think you're allowed to fly if it's under 500 miles even if you pay for it yourself. I remember Mount getting dinged for that on their first or second Stagg Bowl trip. They flew even thought it was under 500 miles - they chartered a team flight and a fan flight. Of course, maybe the rules changed.

You can pay for your own flight whenever you want, at least in basketball.  The NCAA doesn't care if you spend your own money.  They might not reimburse you for anything if you fly (like they might not give you the bus equivalent), but you can travel however you want if its on your own dime.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Onward on, John Carroll on March 04, 2018, 09:14:34 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 04, 2018, 09:10:07 AM
Quote from: Onward on, John Carroll on March 04, 2018, 09:02:30 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 04, 2018, 08:30:05 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 04, 2018, 08:17:18 AM
Is there any leniency on the 500 mile rule? University Heights to Rock Island is 507 on Google maps (I know that's not what the NCAA uses). I just think they'd save a plane full of money by making JCU bus an extra 15 minutes.

No, there isn't. The 500-mile-radius rule is arbitrary -- there's no reason why the NCAA couldn't have set the radius at 510 miles, or 490 miles, when it made the rule -- but there are a lot of rules in life that are arbitrary. The point, however, is to set the marker and keep it there, so that everybody understands it and knows well ahead of time what the rule is. If you make exceptions here and there for the sake of a few miles, then the rule ceases to have any meaning. It stops being a rule altogether, and then you have the anarchy of a team complaining, "Hey, you let Team A fly last year when it was 480 miles from the site ... well, we're only 479 miles from our site, so why do we have to take the bus?"

There's no reason why JCU has to fly. Blue Streaks head coach Pete Moran, or the JCU athletic director, could opt to bus his team to Rock Island instead. It's certainly not unheard-of for teams to take the busing option even when the NCAA offers the team the opportunity to fly on the NCAA's dime. If I remember correctly, Grey Giovanine has elected to have Augustana bus to Salem, for example, for Augie's two Final Four trips over the past three seasons.

However, I don't think the reverse is true. I don't think you're allowed to fly if it's under 500 miles even if you pay for it yourself. I remember Mount getting dinged for that on their first or second Stagg Bowl trip. They flew even thought it was under 500 miles - they chartered a team flight and a fan flight. Of course, maybe the rules changed.

You can pay for your own flight whenever you want, at least in basketball.  The NCAA doesn't care if you spend your own money.  They might not reimburse you for anything if you fly (like they might not give you the bus equivalent), but you can travel however you want if its on your own dime.

Thanks Ryan, for the clarification. It's been 25 years. Maybe a I remember it wrong. That's said, I doubt Carroll will pony up for a charter flight so Coach Moran is going to have start figuring out what he wants to do.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 04, 2018, 09:15:50 AM
So if all 400+ schools agree to pay for their own transportation, can we have a true national tournament then?  ??? :P ::) :o ;D
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Fifth and Putnam on March 04, 2018, 09:42:58 AM
Quote from: Onward on, John Carroll on March 04, 2018, 08:58:35 AM
Quote from: Titan Q on March 04, 2018, 08:30:58 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 04, 2018, 08:17:18 AM
Is there any leniency on the 500 mile rule? University Heights to Rock Island is 507 on Google maps (I know that's not what the NCAA uses). I just think they'd save a plane full of money by making JCU bus an extra 15 minutes.

No leniency on the rule in terms of making these decisions.  But teams can choose to bus instead of fly if it works better for them.

Like John Carroll to Augustana.  There is no great way to flight that.  You either go Cleveland to Detroit to Quad Cities, or Cleveland to Chicago and then drive 2.5 hours.  You'd actually get there faster by just getting on the bus and doing the 7:30 drive.

I know football uses charter flights but I assume that is because of the size of the travel party. Do they charter basketball teams?  If not, I'm with you on JCU to Quad Cities. That's a very incovenient flight. JCU may bus them. It'll be interesting to see what Coach Moran decides.

Marietta made the sectional trip to the Rock Island a few years back and it was outside of the 500 mile radius. They chose to bus anyways and stopped halfway for an arranged practice at Butler University. Unless you are near an airport with a direct flight to the Quad Cities (Emory-Atlanta), it's probably more hassle to fly than bus.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: kiko on March 04, 2018, 10:15:04 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 04, 2018, 08:17:18 AM
Is there any leniency on the 500 mile rule? University Heights to Rock Island is 507 on Google maps (I know that's not what the NCAA uses). I just think they'd save a plane full of money by making JCU bus an extra 15 minutes.

'Leniency' and 'NCAA'... okay, I laughed out loud at this idea...
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Riley056 on March 04, 2018, 10:31:29 AM
Why would you charter a flight? Unless you have a deal with an airline and purchase every seat on a specific plane, chartering is much more expensive.

UAA teams travel this way every weekend and fly commercial.

Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Mr. Mo on March 04, 2018, 10:48:18 AM
I assume this is also an expense thing, but why the Friday/Saturday contests (rather than Friday/Sunday)?  Last night Neb Wesleyan was the beneficiary of an Aurora team that just had nothing left in the tank. 

I apologize for being a newby, but this feels like a real competitive issue.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Riley056 on March 04, 2018, 10:57:06 AM
Another issue teams are having - media timeouts

I would assume 95% of leagues in D3 do not have it - I know the WIAC does but have not heard of others.

Might be a good idea to have them in conference tournaments to get a taste of it?
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: ronk on March 04, 2018, 11:31:05 AM
Quote from: Onward on, John Carroll on March 04, 2018, 09:02:30 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 04, 2018, 08:30:05 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 04, 2018, 08:17:18 AM
Is there any leniency on the 500 mile rule? University Heights to Rock Island is 507 on Google maps (I know that's not what the NCAA uses). I just think they'd save a plane full of money by making JCU bus an extra 15 minutes.

No, there isn't. The 500-mile-radius rule is arbitrary -- there's no reason why the NCAA couldn't have set the radius at 510 miles, or 490 miles, when it made the rule -- but there are a lot of rules in life that are arbitrary. The point, however, is to set the marker and keep it there, so that everybody understands it and knows well ahead of time what the rule is. If you make exceptions here and there for the sake of a few miles, then the rule ceases to have any meaning. It stops being a rule altogether, and then you have the anarchy of a team complaining, "Hey, you let Team A fly last year when it was 480 miles from the site ... well, we're only 479 miles from our site, so why do we have to take the bus?"

There's no reason why JCU has to fly. Blue Streaks head coach Pete Moran, or the JCU athletic director, could opt to bus his team to Rock Island instead. It's certainly not unheard-of for teams to take the busing option even when the NCAA offers the team the opportunity to fly on the NCAA's dime. If I remember correctly, Grey Giovanine has elected to have Augustana bus to Salem, for example, for Augie's two Final Four trips over the past three seasons.

However, I don't think the reverse is true. I don't think you're allowed to fly if it's under 500 miles even if you pay for it yourself. I remember Mount getting dinged for that on their first or second Stagg Bowl trip. They flew even thought it was under 500 miles - they chartered a team flight and a fan flight. Of course, maybe the rules changed.

I think Dave McHugh tweeted that MIT flew to Johns Hopkins on their own dime for the regional there this weekend.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Titan Q on March 04, 2018, 11:44:09 AM
Quote from: Riley056 on March 04, 2018, 10:31:29 AM
Why would you charter a flight? Unless you have a deal with an airline and purchase every seat on a specific plane, chartering is much more expensive.

UAA teams travel this way every weekend and fly commercial.

Because you are buying the tickets with about 4 days notice (purchase Sunday for travel Wednesday or Thursday). A) The price is crazy, and B) availability for an entire basketball traveling crew is tough to come by.

Like Emory to Quad Cities direct this week -- what are the odds the entire Emory crew can get on that Delta flight at this point?
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Titan Q on March 04, 2018, 11:46:57 AM
Quote from: Mr. Mo on March 04, 2018, 10:48:18 AM
I assume this is also an expense thing, but why the Friday/Saturday contests (rather than Friday/Sunday)?  Last night Neb Wesleyan was the beneficiary of an Aurora team that just had nothing left in the tank. 

I apologize for being a newby, but this feels like a real competitive issue.

Friday/Saturday is lot better for school purposes (attending classes Monday) than Friday/Sunday.

On the fatigue factor -- isn't that generally the same for every team? Nebraska Wesleyan played Friday too.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Onward on, John Carroll on March 04, 2018, 11:48:53 AM
Quote from: Riley056 on March 04, 2018, 10:31:29 AM
Why would you charter a flight? Unless you have a deal with an airline and purchase every seat on a specific plane, chartering is much more expensive.

UAA teams travel this way every weekend and fly commercial.

Prevent the connection and reduce total travel time
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: kiko on March 04, 2018, 11:55:29 AM
Quote from: Titan Q on March 04, 2018, 11:44:09 AM
Quote from: Riley056 on March 04, 2018, 10:31:29 AM
Why would you charter a flight? Unless you have a deal with an airline and purchase every seat on a specific plane, chartering is much more expensive.

UAA teams travel this way every weekend and fly commercial.

Because you are buying the tickets with about 4 days notice (purchase Sunday for travel Wednesday or Thursday). A) The price is crazy, and B) availability for an entire basketball traveling crew is tough to come by.

Like Emory to Quad Cities direct this week -- what are the odds the entire Emory crew can get on that Delta flight at this point?

This, and also, you want your entire team on one flight.  Even if you can get ten seats on a Delta flight and twelve more on United, you don't want to go that route.

UAA teams know their schedule many months in advance and can plan/book their itinerary accordingly.  That's not an option during the tournament when the host is decided four days prior to the game.

The size of the traveling party is why football teams who travel will always charter a flight.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: kiko on March 04, 2018, 11:56:51 AM
Quote from: Mr. Mo on March 04, 2018, 10:48:18 AM
I assume this is also an expense thing, but why the Friday/Saturday contests (rather than Friday/Sunday)?  Last night Neb Wesleyan was the beneficiary of an Aurora team that just had nothing left in the tank. 

I apologize for being a newby, but this feels like a real competitive issue.

That is a missed class time thing.

Aurora and Nebraska Wesleyan had exactly the same number of days between games, so that is on Aurora moreso than the schedule.

Edit:  in summary, What Bob Said...
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: njf1003 on March 04, 2018, 12:02:58 PM
Ramapo is hosting top left:
http://ramapoathletics.com/news/2018/3/4/ramapo-to-host-ncaa-mens-basketball-sweet-16.aspx
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Augie6 on March 04, 2018, 12:22:11 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 04, 2018, 08:13:25 AM
Quote from: AndOne on March 04, 2018, 12:58:51 AM
Although I know things unfortunately aren't going to change, I can't help but thinking it's a shame that geography plays such a vital role in site determination. That's because the result is often that a team gets it's first four games all at home. If the NCAA wants a true national championship tournament they need to move a percent or two of the multi million dollars they make from the D1 tournament and spent it on a few flights for D3 teams. Otherwise if they allow a team to host both the first two weekends they may just as well call it the (insert team name) Invitational instead of the National Tournament. It just seems inherently unfair to let a team potentially have four home games to get to the Final Four. Any team put in such an advantageous position should be ashamed if they don't make it to Salem.

I understand others might have a differing opinion, and I have no problem with that. I only ask if such is the case, that you please explain your thinking 🤔. Thanks.

Well, then, I guess that all of the men's basketball tournaments that D3 has held since the division's inception in the mid-'70s have not been "true national championship tournaments", because higher seeds have been hosting multiple rounds since the very beginning. What's more, since this model is followed by a large number of the other D3 sports as well for their championships, I guess that the football, volleyball, women's basketball, lacrosse (men's & women's), etc. national championship tournaments have all been fake as well. It seems a shame that so many of us have spent so many years following fake championships, and that so many people over the years have derived so much pleasure from seeing their teams win something that obviously isn't valid. Perhaps some good can come of this, however, by taking all of those Walnut & Bronze trophies that apparently have no value whatsoever to the schools that clearly didn't earn them properly, due to the tournaments being fake, and giving them to other organizations to be re-purposed. I'll bet that, with a little modification, they'd make dandy Employee of the Month trophies for the local Office Depot, Jo-Ann Fabrics, and Burger King franchises located near the schools that won those fake championships.

Since D3 championships are funded on D1's dime, and since D1 owes nothing whatsoever to D3 in return, the desire for D1 to cough up more money to fund either several extra flights or the rental fees for neutral-site sectional venues that will be largely empty constitutes nothing more than wishful thinking. Personally, I'd rather spend my time and energy conversing about pragmatic, real-world aspects of D3 championship tournaments than making conjectures about something that will never happen ... but perhaps that's just me.

I also don't see the point of wishing for more flight money if the purpose is to prevent an "(insert team name) Invitational", because that's a completely separate issue. What's the reasoning behind flying three teams to Walla Walla in that case? Whitman's already hosted a pod. All you're doing is defeating your own purpose, which is to prevent teams from hosting two weekends' worth of games.

I don't see the competitive logic in the other alternative, which would be to award sectional hosting privileges to teams that didn't host first-weekend pods, which means, in effect, disqualifying teams that hosted pods from hosting sectionals. That completely throws seeding right out the window.

As GS points out, this would mean its not "fair" in a lot of other sports, based on your opinion of this situation.  I guess we shouldn't recognize all of the National Championships that Mt. Union has won in football, because a significant number of those came without them playing away from home until the Stagg Bowl.  To say, in any of the sports that follow this same model, that it's not a "true national championship" really diminishes the accomplishments of those teams and, IMO, is not remotely close to being accurate.  Augie went to the championship game last year without hosting a game in the tournament.  The year before, they were at the top of the rankings for most of the year, hosted 4 games at Augie in the NCAA's, but lost in the Sectional final game to St. Thomas.  Did I think it was unfair that they had to play on the road last year?  Absolutely not, because their performance in the regular season leading up to the tourney didn't warrant that happening.  It did in the prior year, but they lost to a very good St. Thomas team (eventual National Champion).  I don't think that team was "ashamed" they didn't make it to Salem.  Disappointed? I'm sure they were, but they had nothing to be ashamed about.

The bottom line is, the NCAA is going to do what they are going to do, regardless of any of our opinions.  During our run of football National Championships in the 80's, we had to go on the road in the playoffs in the 84 and 86 seasons, despite being the higher seed and the defending National Champion.  We didn't really consider that fair, but we also didn't dwell on it, because it wasn't going to change.  National Championship caliber teams find a way to overcome those things and win games. 
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: frodotwo on March 04, 2018, 12:51:33 PM
Unless I missed it somewhere else on the site:

Sweet 16 hosts:

Ramapo
Augustana
Platteville
Swarthmore

http://static.psbin.com/l/9/hi056co0mrg669/mbb-bracket-2018.pdf (http://static.psbin.com/l/9/hi056co0mrg669/mbb-bracket-2018.pdf)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Mr. Mo on March 04, 2018, 12:55:47 PM
Quote from: kiko on March 04, 2018, 11:56:51 AM
Quote from: Mr. Mo on March 04, 2018, 10:48:18 AM
I assume this is also an expense thing, but why the Friday/Saturday contests (rather than Friday/Sunday)?  Last night Neb Wesleyan was the beneficiary of an Aurora team that just had nothing left in the tank. 

I apologize for being a newby, but this feels like a real competitive issue.

That is a missed class time thing.

Aurora and Nebraska Wesleyan had exactly the same number of days between games, so that is on Aurora moreso than the schedule.

Edit:  in summary, What Bob Said...
Having seen all of the games, I would disagree.  Wesleyan had a relative walkover on Friday night, while Aurora played their hearts out in their victory over WashU.

I think Aurora was the better team, but yhey never had a chance in that game.

To not give adequate recovery time to account for game differential is an unfair advantage.

Plenty of time on Sunday to get home for class on Monday morning.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 04, 2018, 01:04:18 PM
Quote from: frodotwo on March 04, 2018, 12:51:33 PM
Unless I missed it somewhere else on the site:

Sweet 16 hosts:

Ramapo
Augustana
Platteville
Swarthmore

http://static.psbin.com/l/9/hi056co0mrg669/mbb-bracket-2018.pdf (http://static.psbin.com/l/9/hi056co0mrg669/mbb-bracket-2018.pdf)

Wow. Not Plattsburgh? No bid? Distance?
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Titan Q on March 04, 2018, 01:37:24 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 04, 2018, 01:04:18 PM
Wow. Not Plattsburgh? No bid? Distance?

1. Hamilton: .846 (22-4)/.574/6-3  Northeast #4
T2. Swarthmore: .815 (22-5)/.541/3-4 Mid Atlantic #3
T2. Plattsburgh State: .846 (22-4)/.523/3-3  East #1
4. Springfield: .692 (18-8)/.558/4-2 Northeast #6

In terms of seeding of these 4, I think Hamilton is pretty clear #1.  Swarthmore and Plattsburgh State seems like a tie.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 04, 2018, 01:46:27 PM

I doubt the committee would comment, but I wonder if this is makeup for Swat getting passed over the first weekend?  They had priority over CNU for the MA region and there was no real reason not to have Swat do it.  This might be giving them the hosting chance they missed last week?
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: AndOne on March 04, 2018, 02:50:49 PM
Quote from: Mr. Mo on March 04, 2018, 12:55:47 PM
Quote from: kiko on March 04, 2018, 11:56:51 AM
Quote from: Mr. Mo on March 04, 2018, 10:48:18 AM
I assume this is also an expense thing, but why the Friday/Saturday contests (rather than Friday/Sunday)?  Last night Neb Wesleyan was the beneficiary of an Aurora team that just had nothing left in the tank. 

I apologize for being a newby, but this feels like a real competitive issue.

That is a missed class time thing.

Aurora and Nebraska Wesleyan had exactly the same number of days between games, so that is on Aurora moreso than the schedule.

Edit:  in summary, What Bob Said...
Having seen all of the games, I would disagree.  Wesleyan had a relative walkover on Friday night, while Aurora played their hearts out in their victory over WashU.

I think Aurora was the better team, but yhey never had a chance in that game.

To not give adequate recovery time to account for game differential is an unfair advantage.

Plenty of time on Sunday to get home for class on Monday morning.

They never had a chance? I think Lance Robinson and the Aurora players would beg to differ.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Mr. Mo on March 04, 2018, 03:02:43 PM
 Perhaps a bad choice of words, but my point was that — with both of their high scoring guards  playing 40 minutes and cramping up on Friday night — it was obvious that their play and their shooting percentages were seriously impacted by the short turnaround.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 04, 2018, 03:08:40 PM
Quote from: Mr. Mo on March 04, 2018, 03:02:43 PM
Perhaps a bad choice of words, but my point was that — with both of their high scoring guards  playing 40 minutes and cramping up on Friday night — it was obvious that their play and their shooting percentages were seriously impacted by the short turnaround.

You can't really blame the short turn around or "our game was harder" as an excuse. Augustana ran a track meet on Friday against System team Greenville and still won on Saturday...and they played the late game too.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: kiko on March 04, 2018, 03:16:55 PM
Quote from: Mr. Mo on March 04, 2018, 12:55:47 PM
Quote from: kiko on March 04, 2018, 11:56:51 AM
Quote from: Mr. Mo on March 04, 2018, 10:48:18 AM
I assume this is also an expense thing, but why the Friday/Saturday contests (rather than Friday/Sunday)?  Last night Neb Wesleyan was the beneficiary of an Aurora team that just had nothing left in the tank. 

I apologize for being a newby, but this feels like a real competitive issue.

That is a missed class time thing.

Aurora and Nebraska Wesleyan had exactly the same number of days between games, so that is on Aurora moreso than the schedule.

Edit:  in summary, What Bob Said...
Having seen all of the games, I would disagree.  Wesleyan had a relative walkover on Friday night, while Aurora played their hearts out in their victory over WashU.

I think Aurora was the better team, but yhey never had a chance in that game.

To not give adequate recovery time to account for game differential is an unfair advantage.

Plenty of time on Sunday to get home for class on Monday morning.

If Aurora's guards were gassed because they played 40 minutes the night before, that is on Aurora -- whether for conditioning, for not going deeper into their bench, or for not recruiting more players that the coaching staff would feel comfortable playing.  Their Saturday opponent also started two guards on Friday, and they also had to play on Saturday.  There was no unfair advantage here -- it was two teams asked to win under the same back-to-back conditions.

Regarding class time -- a number of teams had flights to return home, some of which were against time zones.  These teams would not have made it back for Monday classes with a Sunday game.  The same holds true for this coming weekend.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: BBJones on March 04, 2018, 03:19:25 PM
Why don't the Titans get any respect on this site?  They were lampooned in the pre-tournament reviews as well.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: AndOne on March 04, 2018, 04:09:15 PM
Quote from: BBJones on March 04, 2018, 03:19:25 PM
Why don't the Titans get any respect on this site?  They were lampooned in the pre-tournament reviews as well.

Congratulations to Illinois Wesleyan 🏀  ;D
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Winifred Durfee on March 04, 2018, 04:35:20 PM
The WashU vs. Aurora finish was just posted on Twitter by SportsCenter.

https://twitter.com/SportsCenter/status/970411509523406848
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Titan Q on March 04, 2018, 04:50:31 PM
Quote from: AndOne on March 04, 2018, 04:09:15 PM
Quote from: BBJones on March 04, 2018, 03:19:25 PM
Why don't the Titans get any respect on this site?  They were lampooned in the pre-tournament reviews as well.

Congratulations to Illinois Wesleyan 🏀  ;D

He is talking about UW-Oshkosh.

http://www.d3hoops.com/playoffs/men/2018/tournament-preview
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 04, 2018, 05:03:21 PM
Quote from: Onward on, John Carroll on March 04, 2018, 09:02:30 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 04, 2018, 08:30:05 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 04, 2018, 08:17:18 AM
Is there any leniency on the 500 mile rule? University Heights to Rock Island is 507 on Google maps (I know that's not what the NCAA uses). I just think they'd save a plane full of money by making JCU bus an extra 15 minutes.

No, there isn't. The 500-mile-radius rule is arbitrary -- there's no reason why the NCAA couldn't have set the radius at 510 miles, or 490 miles, when it made the rule -- but there are a lot of rules in life that are arbitrary. The point, however, is to set the marker and keep it there, so that everybody understands it and knows well ahead of time what the rule is. If you make exceptions here and there for the sake of a few miles, then the rule ceases to have any meaning. It stops being a rule altogether, and then you have the anarchy of a team complaining, "Hey, you let Team A fly last year when it was 480 miles from the site ... well, we're only 479 miles from our site, so why do we have to take the bus?"

There's no reason why JCU has to fly. Blue Streaks head coach Pete Moran, or the JCU athletic director, could opt to bus his team to Rock Island instead. It's certainly not unheard-of for teams to take the busing option even when the NCAA offers the team the opportunity to fly on the NCAA's dime. If I remember correctly, Grey Giovanine has elected to have Augustana bus to Salem, for example, for Augie's two Final Four trips over the past three seasons.

However, I don't think the reverse is true. I don't think you're allowed to fly if it's under 500 miles even if you pay for it yourself. I remember Mount getting dinged for that on their first or second Stagg Bowl trip. They flew even thought it was under 500 miles - they chartered a team flight and a fan flight. Of course, maybe the rules changed.

It was 400 miles then. And that was before they had the standard mileage chart that they have now.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 04, 2018, 05:04:46 PM
Quote from: Riley056 on March 04, 2018, 10:57:06 AM
Another issue teams are having - media timeouts

I would assume 95% of leagues in D3 do not have it - I know the WIAC does but have not heard of others.

Might be a good idea to have them in conference tournaments to get a taste of it?

A conference can do whatever it likes. The committee some years ago went to media timeouts throughout the bracket because it was better for teams to make the adjustment then, rather than in the national semifinals.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 04, 2018, 05:33:35 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on March 04, 2018, 04:50:31 PM
Quote from: AndOne on March 04, 2018, 04:09:15 PM
Quote from: BBJones on March 04, 2018, 03:19:25 PM
Why don't the Titans get any respect on this site?  They were lampooned in the pre-tournament reviews as well.

Congratulations to Illinois Wesleyan 🏀  ;D

He is talking about UW-Oshkosh.

http://www.d3hoops.com/playoffs/men/2018/tournament-preview

I guess I'm confused here.  I said that their first round game was good enough to be a sectional final and then said anything other than winning the pod would probably be disappointing (remember, they are a lower-line seed in this thing) - if you're upset I didn't pick them, sorry, but I don't think they were "lampooned," if anything, they got more respect than any other team in their position on the bracket.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 04, 2018, 05:56:12 PM
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdnak1.psbin.com%2Fimg%2Fmw%3D710%2Fcr%3Dn%2Fd%3D536xc%2Fhkzyudwky86lo5ei.jpg&hash=3ec0f470e17436a04b98996b90c7476fa97a6446)

With so much parity, especially in men's basketball, unexpected outcomes where to be ... expected. However, that doesn't prepare anyone for the number of upsets, who was upset, and how.

Sunday night on Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com), Dave tries to breakdown the opening weekend not only looking back at some of the crazier finishes, but also talking to programs who escaped the wrath. Programs who are dancing on to the second weekend and hoping to punch their ticket to a championship weekend.

Hoopsville is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCANABC Studio. You can watch Sunday episode LIVE starting at 7:00 p.m. ET here: http://bit.ly/2FbY54R.

If you have questions, be sure to email them to hoopsville@d3hoops.com or interact with the show via the social media avenues.

Guests in order of appearance (subject to change):
- Chuck McBreen, Ramapo men's coach
- Jason Zimmerman, No. 6 Emory men's coach
- Larry Anderson, MIT men's coach
- Bill Broderick, No. 18 Christopher Newport women's coach
- Laurie Kelly, Gustavus Adolphus women's coach
- Carla Berube, No. 8 Tufts women's coach

If you enjoy the show via the podcasts instead, you can get access to them or subscribe one of the three following ways (click on the images when necessary):
SoundCloud: www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdnak1.psbin.com%2Fimg%2Fmw%3D150%2Fmh%3D39%2Fcr%3Dn%2Fd%3D34qaz%2Ffrghgxk7kqd172nn.jpg&hash=6ef41ddb2f5e1c3420db88961e4f9e8a76ca72de) (https://apple.co/2E9e0Bl)
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdnak1.psbin.com%2Fimg%2Fmw%3D150%2Fmh%3D55%2Fcr%3Dn%2Fd%3D34qc6%2Fnv94ufhrqbnvt3d4.jpg&hash=c9b51356cf30d2646f6d744dc0ce47b431cec05e) (http://bit.ly/2rFfr7Z)

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Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: AllStar on March 04, 2018, 06:39:27 PM
Some updated information after the first two rounds:
(https://i.imgur.com/6uwoypD.png?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/En49try.png)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Mr. Mo on March 04, 2018, 07:28:05 PM
 If you really want to have a tournament to decide the best team is, shouldn't each of the games pick two teams on fairly equal footing?   I think the 24 hour turnaround can put one team at a disadvantage over the other two Soli to the competitiveness of the prior around.

Both of the other divisions schedules seem to bear out that the NCAA knowledges this for those teams.

In this case, after sitting through all of the games, I think Nebraska Weslyan was the third best team in that pod, yet they are the one moving on.

P.S.   I really could give a **** less what Augustana in their bracket.  I am happy for them they are moving on.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Mr. Mo on March 04, 2018, 07:29:27 PM
 I guess that's why they call it March madness.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 04, 2018, 08:01:55 PM
Quote from: Mr. Mo on March 04, 2018, 07:28:05 PM
If you really want to have a tournament to decide the best team is, shouldn't each of the games pick two teams on fairly equal footing?   I think the 24 hour turnaround can put one team at a disadvantage over the other two Soli to the competitiveness of the prior around.

Both of the other divisions schedules seem to bear out that the NCAA knowledges this for those teams.

In this case, after sitting through all of the games, I think Nebraska Weslyan was the third best team in that pod, yet they are the one moving on.

P.S.   I really could give a **** less what Augustana in their bracket.  I am happy for them they are moving on.

First of all, you're not correct about the other divisions' schedules. Division II also plays its first two rounds on consecutive days. Then, after one day off, it plays the third round.

Secondly, Division III has a couple of things that are specific to D-III that make it difficult to expand the schedules. First of all, Division III members want their student-athletes to go to class, so moving to Thursday-Saturday regionals would be a hard sell. Secondly, a number of Division III members will not participate in athletic events on Sunday for religious purposes, so Friday-Sunday regionals would be similarly a hard sell.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: txg on March 04, 2018, 08:03:22 PM
Quote from: Mr. Mo on March 04, 2018, 07:28:05 PM
If you really want to have a tournament to decide the best team is, shouldn't each of the games pick two teams on fairly equal footing?   I think the 24 hour turnaround can put one team at a disadvantage over the other two Soli to the competitiveness of the prior around.

Both of the other divisions schedules seem to bear out that the NCAA knowledges this for those teams.

In this case, after sitting through all of the games, I think Nebraska Weslyan was the third best team in that pod, yet they are the one moving on.


I have no allegiance to Nebraska Wesleyan, but the lack of respect is almost comical.  They are 26-3 in a pretty solid league,  they won both tournament games by 20+ points, and they were third best team in their pod?

The other part of it makes me think this is the first basketball tournament you've seen in your life.  (If that is the case, welcome aboard, it really is quite a spectacle.)  Teams are not on even footing.  You are complaining that Neb-Wes had the advantage of being less tired (?), why not rail against the system that has you playing Washington on their own floor?
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: noonhooper on March 04, 2018, 08:25:17 PM
Total side question: Is there any central site to get postgame press conference videos for the tournament? Or are those released by schools independently?
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 04, 2018, 08:39:52 PM
They are released independently.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: (509)Rat on March 04, 2018, 10:09:39 PM
The NWC plays Fri-Sat conference games all season long. I don't see what the big deal is with 24 hr rest between games come tournament time...
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 04, 2018, 10:15:01 PM
Txg,

You have to take into account that Nebraska Wesleyan may not have even gotten into the tournament had they not won the AQ. There are several leagues that play Friday/Saturday conference games during the regular season.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Augie6 on March 04, 2018, 11:23:33 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 04, 2018, 10:15:01 PM
Txg,

You have to take into account that Nebraska Wesleyan may not have even gotten into the tournament had they not won the AQ. There are several leagues that play Friday/Saturday conference games during the regular season.

Greek,

Agree with that, but Aurora certainly wouldn't have gotten in either.  Txg was commenting about Mr. Mo's assertion that Nebraska Wesleyan was not as good a team as Aurora or Wash U.  NW beat Aurora by 21 after leading by 29 in the second half.  That, alone, is enough to make Mr. Mo's opinion that Aurora was the better team pretty hard to take seriously.  If you couple that with comparing the schedules, records, etc., (NWU record of 24-3/Aurora at 19-8, Aurora losses to Edgewood,Albion, Millikin, MSOE twice, IIAC is a tougher conference than NACC) then I doubt that you will find many other people who would agree with Mr. Mo's opinion.   
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 05, 2018, 08:20:13 AM
My apologies. I didn't make myself clear on what part of his post I was responding to. I was responding to his assertion that there was a lack of respect for Nebraska Wesleyan. Yes, they had a very good record, but their non-conference schedule wasn't very good. The IIAC was possibly better than in recent years, but they still only got one team in. It could easily be argued that NWU was the #2 seed in the pod. They were higher in the regional rankings, probably in a tougher region.

Edit: Maybe I thought txg was saying they were the 3rd best team in the pod, but it was Mr. Mo...anyway.... I don't know.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: txg on March 05, 2018, 09:49:14 AM
I can see how it might look like I was complaining about the NWU seeding if you look at my post in a vacuum.  For clarification:

Declaring NWU the third best team in the pod after the results we saw is disrespectful.  No other way to put it.

Is there a lack of respect for NWU in general?  I'd say probably, but I have watched 0 minutes and 0 seconds of that team this year, so my opinion on that should be treated accordingly.

I have no problem at all with Friday-Saturday games.  The poster I was responding to does.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 05, 2018, 11:59:46 AM
Over Saturday and Sunday our team debated and ranked the top 10 first-round upsets of the past 10 NCAA Tournaments. Here's how we ranked them:

http://www.d3hoops.com/playoffs/biggest-upsets-past-10-years/index
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 05, 2018, 01:37:48 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 05, 2018, 11:59:46 AM
Over Saturday and Sunday our team debated and ranked the top 10 first-round upsets of the past 10 NCAA Tournaments. Here's how we ranked them:

http://www.d3hoops.com/playoffs/biggest-upsets-past-10-years/index

Great stuff. Hope the buzzer beater page can make a return!
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: sac on March 05, 2018, 01:48:13 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 05, 2018, 11:59:46 AM
Over Saturday and Sunday our team debated and ranked the top 10 first-round upsets of the past 10 NCAA Tournaments. Here's how we ranked them:

http://www.d3hoops.com/playoffs/biggest-upsets-past-10-years/index

So if Webster had hypothetically beaten IWU in 2014(lost 71-70), where might that rank?
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 05, 2018, 01:55:22 PM
Quote from: sac on March 05, 2018, 01:48:13 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 05, 2018, 11:59:46 AM
Over Saturday and Sunday our team debated and ranked the top 10 first-round upsets of the past 10 NCAA Tournaments. Here's how we ranked them:

http://www.d3hoops.com/playoffs/biggest-upsets-past-10-years/index

So if Webster had hypothetically beaten IWU in 2014(lost 71-70), where might that rank?

No lower than just behind Northwestern-St. Thomas game, for sure. They're very similar. Game is in Bloomington, but IWU was ranked 6th after losing the CCIW final by 21. In essence, just like Aurora/Wash U.

As a team, we had a lot of debate over the ordering of 1-3 and this would have been right in that discussion if Webster had won.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: AndOne on March 05, 2018, 02:04:19 PM
Quote from: txg on March 05, 2018, 09:49:14 AM
I can see how it might look like I was complaining about the NWU seeding if you look at my post in a vacuum.  For clarification:

Declaring NWU the third best team in the pod after the results we saw is disrespectful.  No other way to put it.

Is there a lack of respect for NWU in general?  I'd say probably, but I have watched 0 minutes and 0 seconds of that team this year, so my opinion on that should be treated accordingly.

I have no problem at all with Friday-Saturday games.  The poster I was responding to does.

With some of the comments that have been directed at my alma mater, its fairly obvious that there is at least some degree of lack of respect for the boys from Lincoln. I believe most of the perceived problem results from an analysis of the non-conference portion of their schedule. Granted, some of their non-con opponents can't be considered major powers. And, heaven forbid, the list even contains the name of an NAIA school (long term hated rival Doane). However, consider the geographical limitations that NWU faces. NWU is the only D3 in the state of Nebraska. Going west, I think the closest D3 is Colorado College which is about 500 miles away. Neither of the next two states south, Kansas and Oklahoma, have any D3s. Same thing to the north as there  aren't any D3 schools in So. Dakota either. The closest clusters of D3 schools are up in Minnesota, and east in Iowa which is one of the primary reasons NWU sought membership in the IIAC when they decided to drop the NAIA portion of their dual NAIA-NCAA membership. So they do play in a major D3 conference with some pretty decent teams (Loras, Buena Vista, Warburg). Otherwise, they do the best they can in picking up non-con D3 games, including hosting a tournament and traveling good distances to places like Minneapolis, Texas, and Washington DC for other games. Consider also, that they have two or three players that a vast majority of other teams, including many in the tournament, would probably love to have. But I'm sure they're just fine with a little lack of respect and being overlooked. Its helped them get to a place many other teams only wish they were. 🏀
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: WUPHF on March 05, 2018, 02:09:31 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 05, 2018, 11:59:46 AM
Over Saturday and Sunday our team debated and ranked the top 10 first-round upsets of the past 10 NCAA Tournaments. Here's how we ranked them:

http://www.d3hoops.com/playoffs/biggest-upsets-past-10-years/index

Not that it matters, but it was sophomore Matt Nester who made his fifth three pointer of the game to tie up the game with 1.6 second left.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: AndOne on March 05, 2018, 02:16:02 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on March 04, 2018, 04:50:31 PM
Quote from: AndOne on March 04, 2018, 04:09:15 PM
Quote from: BBJones on March 04, 2018, 03:19:25 PM
Why don't the Titans get any respect on this site?  They were lampooned in the pre-tournament reviews as well.

Congratulations to Illinois Wesleyan 🏀  ;D

He is talking about UW-Oshkosh.

http://www.d3hoops.com/playoffs/men/2018/tournament-preview

I'm aware.
Just a little facetious/tongue-in-cheek humor, and a reminder that there is more than one Titans team. 😏
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 05, 2018, 02:47:39 PM
Quote from: AndOne on March 05, 2018, 02:04:19 PM
I believe most of the perceived problem results from an analysis of the non-conference portion of their schedule. Granted, some of their non-con opponents can't be considered major powers.

Nov. 17   7:30 PM   at North Central (Minn.) (7-18) •   W, 122-84
Nov. 18   5:00 PM   at Northwestern (Minn.) (14-13) •   W, 78-67
Nov. 24   7:00 PM   Iowa Wesleyan (5-20) •   W, 117-54
Nov. 25   5:00 PM   Bethany Lutheran (20-9) •   W, 95-78
Dec. 4   8:00 PM   Doane    W, 107-80
Dec. 10   12:00 PM   at Austin (4-21) •   W, 92-67
Dec. 17   2:00 PM   at Gallaudet (9-17) •   W, 99-77
Dec. 18   7:00 PM   at Marymount (8-17) •   W, 87-46
Dec. 30   4:00 PM   at Grinnell (13-11) •   W, 121-103

Just to put the actual facts here instead of the poor attempt at spin. Good thing the UMAC champ is in here or there wouldn't be anything at all.

(Nobody really begrudges one NAIA opponent, AO.)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 05, 2018, 02:50:43 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 05, 2018, 02:49:58 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 05, 2018, 11:59:46 AM
Over Saturday and Sunday our team debated and ranked the top 10 first-round upsets of the past 10 NCAA Tournaments. Here's how we ranked them:

http://www.d3hoops.com/playoffs/biggest-upsets-past-10-years/index

You guys got the wrong Bears shooter in the Aurora @ Wash U game. It was Matt Nester who hit the game-tying trey for Wash U in the waning seconds, not Jack Nolan.

WUPHF beat you to it and it's already been fixed. :)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 05, 2018, 02:53:14 PM
I posted it when I saw your link, Pat, and then took it down once I got to WUPHF's post.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 05, 2018, 02:56:43 PM
I had a strong suspicion prior to this season that NebWes was going to be really good, based upon the fact that the Prairie Wolves had all five starters returning from an 18-8 team. However, without any proof at hand that I said that, I suppose that it probably looks like 20/20 hindsight to everybody else. ;)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 05, 2018, 03:15:41 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 05, 2018, 02:56:43 PM
I had a strong suspicion prior to this season that NebWes was going to be really good, based upon the fact that the Prairie Wolves had all five starters returning from an 18-8 team. However, without any proof at hand that I said that, I suppose that it probably looks like 20/20 hindsight to everybody else. ;)

You weren't the only one to think they'd be pretty good this year. Simply based on returning players, I thought they would win the conference as well. But, winning your conference and gaining national respect can be two different things.

Also, all because there might be a lack of respect, doesn't mean we don't like them! Their opponents to date don't have me declaring them as "favorites". Yes, they blew out their two tournament opponents, but like their non-conference opponents, they hardly scream out "high caliber". Maryville and Aurora come from traditionally weak 1-bid conferences.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: AndOne on March 05, 2018, 03:19:43 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 05, 2018, 02:56:43 PM
I had a strong suspicion prior to this season that NebWes was going to be really good, based upon the fact that the Prairie Wolves had all five starters returning from an 18-8 team. However, without any proof at hand that I said that, I suppose that it probably looks like 20/20 hindsight to everybody else. ;)

I'll be your assist man on this one GS. I don't know exactly where you posted it, but I distinctly remember a pre-season entry in which you opined that NWU would be having a very good season.  ;D
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 05, 2018, 03:23:32 PM
Every time I looked at NWU to consider voting for them, I got stuck on those early games, then combined with the untimely losses at just the wrong time during the season. As a backup voter, I didn't cast a ballot every week, but they didn't get onto mine until the last poll or so.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: AndOne on March 05, 2018, 03:40:48 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 05, 2018, 02:47:39 PM
Quote from: AndOne on March 05, 2018, 02:04:19 PM
I believe most of the perceived problem results from an analysis of the non-conference portion of their schedule. Granted, some of their non-con opponents can't be considered major powers.

Nov. 17   7:30 PM   at North Central (Minn.) (7-18) •   W, 122-84
Nov. 18   5:00 PM   at Northwestern (Minn.) (14-13) •   W, 78-67
Nov. 24   7:00 PM   Iowa Wesleyan (5-20) •   W, 117-54
Nov. 25   5:00 PM   Bethany Lutheran (20-9) •   W, 95-78
Dec. 4   8:00 PM   Doane    W, 107-80
Dec. 10   12:00 PM   at Austin (4-21) •   W, 92-67
Dec. 17   2:00 PM   at Gallaudet (9-17) •   W, 99-77
Dec. 18   7:00 PM   at Marymount (8-17) •   W, 87-46
Dec. 30   4:00 PM   at Grinnell (13-11) •   W, 121-103

Just to put the actual facts here instead of the poor attempt at spin. Good thing the UMAC champ is in here or there wouldn't be anything at all.

(Nobody really begrudges one NAIA opponent, AO.)
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 05, 2018, 03:23:32 PM
Every time I looked at NWU to consider voting for them, I got stuck on those early games, then combined with the untimely losses at just the wrong time during the season. As a backup voter, I didn't cast a ballot every week, but they didn't get onto mine until the last poll or so.

No spin involved.
The fact of the matter is that it's virtually impossible for NWU to find quality non-con opponents without traveling excessive distances, and likely stressing the budget in the process.
As far as "untimely" losses, would you have given them more credit for a loss at a different time? Isn't the number of losses more important than when a loss occurred? 🤔
With regard to not voting for a team that's reached the Sweet Sixteen, it seems the poor attempt at spin isn't coming from my corner. 😏
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: WUPHF on March 05, 2018, 03:53:29 PM
Quote from: AndOne on March 05, 2018, 03:40:48 PM
The fact of the matter is that it's virtually impossible for NWU to find quality non-con opponents without traveling excessive distances, and likely stressing the budget in the process.

I have a little sympathy to their location in the Division III universe, but they did travel to the Twin Cities, Texas and the Washington DC area.  There could be any number of reasons why the chose to play this schedule.  But, they could certainly look to the Quad Cities, Bloomington, Platteville and so on for games as the work on subsequent seasons.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 05, 2018, 04:20:11 PM
"Some" of their non-conference opponents can't be considered major powers. Actually, all.

NWU is definitely in the final 16, and beating Aurora and Maryville definitely adds to the resume.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: sac on March 05, 2018, 04:43:31 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 05, 2018, 04:20:11 PM
"Some" of their non-conference opponents can't be considered major powers. Actually, all.

NWU is definitely in the final 16, and beating Aurora and Maryville definitely adds to the resume.

Words not often spoken
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 05, 2018, 04:46:17 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 05, 2018, 03:15:41 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 05, 2018, 02:56:43 PM
I had a strong suspicion prior to this season that NebWes was going to be really good, based upon the fact that the Prairie Wolves had all five starters returning from an 18-8 team. However, without any proof at hand that I said that, I suppose that it probably looks like 20/20 hindsight to everybody else. ;)

You weren't the only one to think they'd be pretty good this year. Simply based on returning players, I thought they would win the conference as well. But, winning your conference and gaining national respect can be two different things.

Also, all because there might be a lack of respect, doesn't mean we don't like them! Their opponents to date don't have me declaring them as "favorites". Yes, they blew out their two tournament opponents, but like their non-conference opponents, they hardly scream out "high caliber". Maryville and Aurora come from traditionally weak 1-bid conferences.

Agreed, and I'm on record more than once in pointing out that the IIAC is not a power conference. Even though it's a charter member of D3, it's never had one of its teams reach the Final Four. Nevertheless, you have to take notice of any team that returns all five starters (and its top six scorers) from an 18-8 campaign, one of whom averaged 19.1 ppg and 4 apg (at an almost 2:1 ratio) in 2016-17 (Nate Schimonitz), another of whom averaged 18.5 and 6.8 (Cooper Cook), and a third of whom owned these numbers, 12.7 and 7, last season (Deion Wells-Ross). Those are some serious numbers.

But I knew that I'd have to give them the eyeball test rather than simply rely upon stats. So I've watched them online this season. The Prairie Wolves are good ... really good.

Quote from: AndOne on March 05, 2018, 03:19:43 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 05, 2018, 02:56:43 PM
I had a strong suspicion prior to this season that NebWes was going to be really good, based upon the fact that the Prairie Wolves had all five starters returning from an 18-8 team. However, without any proof at hand that I said that, I suppose that it probably looks like 20/20 hindsight to everybody else. ;)

I'll be your assist man on this one GS. I don't know exactly where you posted it, but I distinctly remember a pre-season entry in which you opined that NWU would be having a very good season.  ;D

Thanks, Mark!

Quote from: WUPHF on March 05, 2018, 03:53:29 PM
Quote from: AndOne on March 05, 2018, 03:40:48 PM
The fact of the matter is that it's virtually impossible for NWU to find quality non-con opponents without traveling excessive distances, and likely stressing the budget in the process.

I have a little sympathy to their location in the Division III universe, but they did travel to the Twin Cities, Texas and the Washington DC area.  There could be any number of reasons why the chose to play this schedule.  But, they could certainly look to the Quad Cities, Bloomington, Platteville and so on for games as the work on subsequent seasons.

I'm surprised that we never see NebWes in Chicagoland. It's not that hard to pick up two decent D3 games on a Friday and a Saturday in the Chicago area.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: kiko on March 05, 2018, 05:24:33 PM
Quote from: AndOne on March 05, 2018, 02:16:02 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on March 04, 2018, 04:50:31 PM
Quote from: AndOne on March 04, 2018, 04:09:15 PM
Quote from: BBJones on March 04, 2018, 03:19:25 PM
Why don't the Titans get any respect on this site?  They were lampooned in the pre-tournament reviews as well.

Congratulations to Illinois Wesleyan 🏀  ;D

He is talking about UW-Oshkosh.

http://www.d3hoops.com/playoffs/men/2018/tournament-preview

I'm aware.
Just a little facetious/tongue-in-cheek humor, and a reminder that there is more than one Titans team. 😏

Of course there's more than one Titans team.  Illinois Wesleyan has a JV team, and a woman's team.  That's two more right there...  ::)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: AndOne on March 05, 2018, 05:42:04 PM
Quote from: kiko on March 05, 2018, 05:24:33 PM
Quote from: AndOne on March 05, 2018, 02:16:02 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on March 04, 2018, 04:50:31 PM
Quote from: AndOne on March 04, 2018, 04:09:15 PM
Quote from: BBJones on March 04, 2018, 03:19:25 PM
Why don't the Titans get any respect on this site?  They were lampooned in the pre-tournament reviews as well.

Congratulations to Illinois Wesleyan 🏀  ;D

He is talking about UW-Oshkosh.

http://www.d3hoops.com/playoffs/men/2018/tournament-preview

I'm aware.
Just a little facetious/tongue-in-cheek humor, and a reminder that there is more than one Titans team. 😏

Of course there's more than one Titans team.  Illinois Wesleyan has a JV team, and a woman's team.  That's two more right there...  ::)

A  ::)  is about the only reaction that post is going to elicit, kiko
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 05, 2018, 05:46:25 PM
Quote from: sac on March 05, 2018, 04:43:31 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 05, 2018, 04:20:11 PM
"Some" of their non-conference opponents can't be considered major powers. Actually, all.

NWU is definitely in the final 16, and beating Aurora and Maryville definitely adds to the resume.

Words not often spoken

Speaks volumes about the original resume.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 05, 2018, 05:52:48 PM
A little fun with numbers:

There are 21 Pool C teams.

Pool C teams make up 32.8% of the 64 team field.
Pool C teams are 23-12. I believe there were 7 games where Pool C teams played each other, so take away 7-7 if you will.
Of the 21 Pool C teams, NINE have made the Sweet 16. That's 56% of the remaining field.

5 Pool C teams went 1-1. LeTourneau, CNU, St. Olaf, Wesleyan and Wooster.
7 Pool C teams went 0-1. IWU, NCC, Albright, St. John's, NJCU, Marietta and Brockport.

There are 43 Pool A teams.

28 conferences were represented by only 1 team.
This makes up 43.75% of the field

1 bid leagues went 9-27.
Of these leagues, 22 of the 28 were represented by either their #1 seed or #2 seed team (1st or 2nd placed team).

1 bid leagues represented by seed and record:

16 #1 seeds: 7-15
6 #2 seeds: 2-6
2 #3 seeds: 0-2
3 #3 seeds: 0-3
1 #8 seed: 0-1

The only 1 bid league that has a representative in the Sweet 16 is...Nebraska Wesleyan.

20 of the 28 1-bid leagues went 0-1.

There were 15 leagues that had multiple bids.
The Pool A (AQ) teams of those multi-bid leagues went 16-9

Of those 15 multi-bid leagues, SIX Pool A teams from those leagues are in the Sweet 16: Augustana, MIT, Ramapo, JCU, Plattsburgh and Stevens Point.

Sul Ross St, Augsburg, Lebanon Valley, Whitworth, and Wash U were 0-1

Of the 15 multi-bid leagues, Lebanon Valley, Augsburg and Whitworth were NOT the #1 seeds in their conference tourneys but won to get the Pool A bid. Williams wasn't the #1 seed, but tied for 1st with four other NESCAC teams.


So, you could argue that conferences that have multi-bids are stronger conferences with only 1 bid. 15 of the 16 teams in the Sweet 16 are from conferences with more than one bid.

In soccer, 4 confederations have 1/2 bids, meaning one confederation plays another to earn an extra bid to the World Cup. For example, the 4th place CONCACAF played the 5th place team in Asia for the right to go to the World Cup. In addition, the 5th place team in South America played the winner of the Oceania Confederation for a spot in the World Cup.

So, my point is that, based on this season's findings, and probably a historical trend, many of these 1-bid leagues don't have the quality of some of the multi-bid leagues.

My (fake) proposal would be to have a conference play-off for some 1-bid leagues where the winners would get a bid into the NCAA tournament and open up more spots for Pool C teams, likely 3rd to 5th best teams in "Power Conferences." So, the NCAA comes up with a formula to determine bottom 10 conferences that receive AQs. Those 10 conferences are drawn into 5 games with the winners getting the 5 AQs, opening up 5 more Pool C bids.

For example, the NCAA actually picks 26 Pool C teams, knowing 5 spots will open up after the inter-conference playoffs. The bottom 10 conferences are drawn into 5 games...

NEAC v NAC
NECC v PAC
SKY v SAA
SCIAC v SCAC
SLIAC v AMCC

(note: I just randomly picked 10 1-bid conferences as an example)

Or you could have the bottom 1-bid conference winners play the bottom 10 Pool C teams in a play-in round to see who gets into the field of 64.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Smitty Oom on March 05, 2018, 06:22:37 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 05, 2018, 05:52:48 PM
My (fake) proposal would be to have a conference play-off for some 1-bid leagues where the winners would get a bid into the NCAA tournament and open up more spots for Pool C teams, likely 3rd to 5th best teams in "Power Conferences." So, the NCAA comes up with a formula to determine bottom 10 conferences that receive AQs. Those 10 conferences are drawn into 5 games with the winners getting the 5 AQs, opening up 5 more Pool C bids.

For example, the NCAA actually picks 26 Pool C teams, knowing 5 spots will open up after the inter-conference playoffs. The bottom 10 conferences are drawn into 5 games...

NEAC v NAC
NECC v PAC
SKY v SAA
SCIAC v SCAC
SLIAC v AMCC

(note: I just randomly picked 10 1-bid conferences as an example)

Or you could have the bottom 1-bid conference winners play the bottom 10 Pool C teams in a play-in round to see who gets into the field of 64.

Thanks for running the numbers, Greek. Very interesting!

So basically you would like a 68 team tournament, like the NCAA DI bracket does it. I would really like that, as you could take 8 of the weaker Pool A resumes and put them into a "play-in" or "first round" game like the some of 16 seeds do it in D1. Would be nice to get more Pool C teams in which have a real shot at making it far in the tourney (a la Springfield this year, who was likely the last team into the field of 64).

With that said, I think this was brought up on a Hoopsville and the logistics probably wouldn't hold up. Would be more expensive for starters. Teams would have to miss school for the majority of the week, which goes against the spirit of D3. Also, when do you stop adding teams?

I am a fan of the 68 team bracket, I just don't think it will happen anytime soon, unfortunately.

PS I know you probably understand the drawbacks of your (fake) proposal, just highlighting them in the post. 
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 05, 2018, 09:13:00 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 05, 2018, 05:52:48 PM
A little fun with numbers:

There are 21 Pool C teams.

Pool C teams make up 32.8% of the 64 team field.
Pool C teams are 23-12. I believe there were 7 games where Pool C teams played each other, so take away 7-7 if you will.
Of the 21 Pool C teams, NINE have made the Sweet 16. That's 56% of the remaining field.

5 Pool C teams went 1-1. LeTourneau, CNU, St. Olaf, Wesleyan and Wooster.
7 Pool C teams went 0-1. IWU, NCC, Albright, St. John's, NJCU, Marietta and Brockport.

There are 43 Pool A teams.

28 conferences were represented by only 1 team.
This makes up 43.75% of the field

1 bid leagues went 9-27.
Of these leagues, 22 of the 28 were represented by either their #1 seed or #2 seed team (1st or 2nd placed team).

1 bid leagues represented by seed and record:

16 #1 seeds: 7-15
6 #2 seeds: 2-6
2 #3 seeds: 0-2
3 #3 seeds: 0-3
1 #8 seed: 0-1

The only 1 bid league that has a representative in the Sweet 16 is...Nebraska Wesleyan.

20 of the 28 1-bid leagues went 0-1.

There were 15 leagues that had multiple bids.
The Pool A (AQ) teams of those multi-bid leagues went 16-9

Of those 15 multi-bid leagues, SIX Pool A teams from those leagues are in the Sweet 16: Augustana, MIT, Ramapo, JCU, Plattsburgh and Stevens Point.

Sul Ross St, Augsburg, Lebanon Valley, Whitworth, and Wash U were 0-1

Of the 15 multi-bid leagues, Lebanon Valley, Augsburg and Whitworth were NOT the #1 seeds in their conference tourneys but won to get the Pool A bid. Williams wasn't the #1 seed, but tied for 1st with four other NESCAC teams.


So, you could argue that conferences that have multi-bids are stronger conferences with only 1 bid. 15 of the 16 teams in the Sweet 16 are from conferences with more than one bid.

In soccer, 4 confederations have 1/2 bids, meaning one confederation plays another to earn an extra bid to the World Cup. For example, the 4th place CONCACAF played the 5th place team in Asia for the right to go to the World Cup. In addition, the 5th place team in South America played the winner of the Oceania Confederation for a spot in the World Cup.

So, my point is that, based on this season's findings, and probably a historical trend, many of these 1-bid leagues don't have the quality of some of the multi-bid leagues.

My (fake) proposal would be to have a conference play-off for some 1-bid leagues where the winners would get a bid into the NCAA tournament and open up more spots for Pool C teams, likely 3rd to 5th best teams in "Power Conferences." So, the NCAA comes up with a formula to determine bottom 10 conferences that receive AQs. Those 10 conferences are drawn into 5 games with the winners getting the 5 AQs, opening up 5 more Pool C bids.

For example, the NCAA actually picks 26 Pool C teams, knowing 5 spots will open up after the inter-conference playoffs. The bottom 10 conferences are drawn into 5 games...

NEAC v NAC
NECC v PAC
SKY v SAA
SCIAC v SCAC
SLIAC v AMCC

(note: I just randomly picked 10 1-bid conferences as an example)

Or you could have the bottom 1-bid conference winners play the bottom 10 Pool C teams in a play-in round to see who gets into the field of 64.
+1!  I like the analysis of the conferences.  I will keep this post in mind.

These games substantiate the post by (was it) Fantastic 50 that we have the Top 40 teams in the country plus another 24 AQ's
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 05, 2018, 11:39:38 PM
Speaking of buzzer beaters...

http://www.totalprosports.com/2018/03/03/new-york-hs-b-ball-team-hits-crazy-buzzer-beater-from-34-court-to-win-state-title-video/

It looks like he travels from the video in the stands. On the floor video, he does dribble the ball once...still could be called a travel, possibly. Great shot, nonetheless.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: smedindy on March 06, 2018, 01:47:38 AM
I hate the idea that any conference winner would be excluded from the tourney. Now, if a 1-bid league wants to enhance its chances, it may wish to not have a tourney so the champ gets in automatically.

I also abhor the fact that two of the 'play-in' games in the D1 tourney are 16-seeds. Let them in, and have the last eight at large teams battle it out.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: spwood on March 06, 2018, 06:56:23 AM
Quote from: smedindy on March 06, 2018, 01:47:38 AM
I hate the idea that any conference winner would be excluded from the tourney. Now, if a 1-bid league wants to enhance its chances, it may wish to not have a tourney so the champ gets in automatically.

I also abhor the fact that two of the 'play-in' games in the D1 tourney are 16-seeds. Let them in, and have the last eight at large teams battle it out.

I'm all for this!  I'd rather make all the 12 seeds (the 16-12 ACC or SEC teams squeaking in because we need to fill the bracket) play those elimination games instead of the conference champion 16 seeds.  That said, the play-in gives those 16 seeds the opportunity to win a game in the NCAA tourney!
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 06, 2018, 07:37:22 AM
Well, technically, the NCAA considers those "play-in" games as the 1st round. In fact, I thought they actually hated that term.

Anyway, we know they aren't going to expand it and have to play games on Tuesday. Besides, those one bid leagues created two of the best upsets of all time. I can't stop watching that Aurora/Wash U end of game sequence.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: hopefan on March 06, 2018, 09:48:09 AM
As a true one bid league supporter, (in other words, a league that ALWAYS draws a top seed, on the top seed's court), I'll go the other way... I'd love to see play in games.. for the bottom league teams... I'd love to see a tourney game for the SLIAC champ vs the MWC/NACC/SAA/SCAC/AMCC/PAC... to go into a game where the kids felt they had a legitimate chance to win... NOT that they don't currently go into the Tourney thinking they have a shot, but lets just say the odds are heavily stacked against them when they have to play the CCIW/Wash U/ WIAC champ...

For the SLIAC, historically, the Conference Championship game is the biggest game of the year.... the TOURNEY, well, maybe some day...


Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 06, 2018, 02:15:05 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 06, 2018, 07:37:22 AM
Well, technically, the NCAA considers those "play-in" games as the 1st round. In fact, I thought they actually hated that term.

Anyway, we know they aren't going to expand it and have to play games on Tuesday. Besides, those one bid leagues created two of the best upsets of all time. I can't stop watching that Aurora/Wash U end of game sequence.

They went away from "first round" with these games I believe last season. It is back to "play-in" or something to that affect.

Personally, NO AQ team should be playing in these games. Absolutely none. They earned their way into the D1 dance by winning their AQ. They should not, then, be subjected to these "play-in" games as if they still have to earn their way in. It is ridiculous. Those games should be for at-large teams ONLY to prove they should be in the dance. The final four even if they are from the same conference. Suck it up. You didn't earn your way in and were nearly out of the tournament. Prove you belong by NOT having to beat a team who did win that AQ.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: hopefan on March 06, 2018, 02:55:42 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 06, 2018, 02:15:05 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 06, 2018, 07:37:22 AM
Well, technically, the NCAA considers those "play-in" games as the 1st round. In fact, I thought they actually hated that term.

Anyway, we know they aren't going to expand it and have to play games on Tuesday. Besides, those one bid leagues created two of the best upsets of all time. I can't stop watching that Aurora/Wash U end of game sequence.

They went away from "first round" with these games I believe last season. It is back to "play-in" or something to that affect.

Personally, NO AQ team should be playing in these games. Absolutely none. They earned their way into the D1 dance by winning their AQ. They should not, then, be subjected to these "play-in" games as if they still have to earn their way in. It is ridiculous. Those games should be for at-large teams ONLY to prove they should be in the dance. The final four even if they are from the same conference. Suck it up. You didn't earn your way in and were nearly out of the tournament. Prove you belong by NOT having to beat a team who did win that AQ.

Yes BUT

If you won your conference, you made it to the tournament.... you're playing a tournament game whether it's called 1st round, playin, elimination chamber, ghost island or whatever... and if the SLIAC beat an Aurora, or a Green Mountain, or a Bethany, who cares whom they beat.. they won an NCAA Tournament game!!!!  And right now afterXXX number of attempts, they still can't say that... and it's not like they're not trying!!!
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 06, 2018, 03:02:37 PM
Quote from: hopefan on March 06, 2018, 02:55:42 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 06, 2018, 02:15:05 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 06, 2018, 07:37:22 AM
Well, technically, the NCAA considers those "play-in" games as the 1st round. In fact, I thought they actually hated that term.

Anyway, we know they aren't going to expand it and have to play games on Tuesday. Besides, those one bid leagues created two of the best upsets of all time. I can't stop watching that Aurora/Wash U end of game sequence.

They went away from "first round" with these games I believe last season. It is back to "play-in" or something to that affect.

Personally, NO AQ team should be playing in these games. Absolutely none. They earned their way into the D1 dance by winning their AQ. They should not, then, be subjected to these "play-in" games as if they still have to earn their way in. It is ridiculous. Those games should be for at-large teams ONLY to prove they should be in the dance. The final four even if they are from the same conference. Suck it up. You didn't earn your way in and were nearly out of the tournament. Prove you belong by NOT having to beat a team who did win that AQ.

Yes BUT

If you won your conference, you made it to the tournament.... you're playing a tournament game whether it's called 1st round, playin, elimination chamber, ghost island or whatever... and if the SLIAC beat an Aurora, or a Green Mountain, or a Bethany, who cares whom they beat.. they won an NCAA Tournament game!!!!  And right now afterXXX number of attempts, they still can't say that... and it's not like they're not trying!!!

The way those games are treated in D1, honestly, I don't think they feel like tournament games. Not the way they make them feel like you are still playing into the tournament and not featured as part of the bigger scope.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Bucket on March 06, 2018, 03:10:06 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 06, 2018, 03:02:37 PM
Quote from: hopefan on March 06, 2018, 02:55:42 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 06, 2018, 02:15:05 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 06, 2018, 07:37:22 AM
Well, technically, the NCAA considers those "play-in" games as the 1st round. In fact, I thought they actually hated that term.

Anyway, we know they aren't going to expand it and have to play games on Tuesday. Besides, those one bid leagues created two of the best upsets of all time. I can't stop watching that Aurora/Wash U end of game sequence.

They went away from "first round" with these games I believe last season. It is back to "play-in" or something to that affect.

Personally, NO AQ team should be playing in these games. Absolutely none. They earned their way into the D1 dance by winning their AQ. They should not, then, be subjected to these "play-in" games as if they still have to earn their way in. It is ridiculous. Those games should be for at-large teams ONLY to prove they should be in the dance. The final four even if they are from the same conference. Suck it up. You didn't earn your way in and were nearly out of the tournament. Prove you belong by NOT having to beat a team who did win that AQ.

Yes BUT

If you won your conference, you made it to the tournament.... you're playing a tournament game whether it's called 1st round, playin, elimination chamber, ghost island or whatever... and if the SLIAC beat an Aurora, or a Green Mountain, or a Bethany, who cares whom they beat.. they won an NCAA Tournament game!!!!  And right now afterXXX number of attempts, they still can't say that... and it's not like they're not trying!!!

The way those games are treated in D1, honestly, I don't think they feel like tournament games. Not the way they make them feel like you are still playing into the tournament and not featured as part of the bigger scope.

Agreed. As far as I'm concerned, any D1 game taking place before Friday Thursday is a play-in game.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 06, 2018, 03:14:43 PM
... or Thursday.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 06, 2018, 03:46:19 PM
Hey - if I don't have to pick a winner of those play-in games in any D1 bracket challenge/office pool/billion dollar gamble (at least none I've ever been in), then you are not part of the tournament in the eyes of the public (or mine at the very least). 
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Bucket on March 06, 2018, 03:48:37 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 06, 2018, 03:14:43 PM
... or Thursday.

Ha. Whoops. Yes, Thursday.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: hopefan on March 06, 2018, 04:56:05 PM
ok.. so I contacted a veteran, respected coach from one of the lesser conferences... the kind of conference we're talking about..

My question was, Would a Lower conference coach be in favor of a playin game concept in D3?  Your conference vs another lower ranked champ?

Coach's Response:
"In favor.  If you win Game 1, it's a win in the NCAA.  It gives you a better chance to win next game as your team is flying high with momentum and power guys sit, wait, get rusty.  In the end you are underdog no matter what in second game"


The people who have responded to this question on this board are associated with conferences that historically don't have to think of a playin game-  but if you put yourselves in the shoes of a conference that generally experiences little or no success in the tournament, it's quite possible to come up with a different train of thought.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: WUPHF on March 06, 2018, 06:17:42 PM
One problem with the play-in game is that it murders an entire week for the team that wins as you travel somewhere on Monday, play Tuesday, and potentially travel home on Wednesday only to travel again on Thursday.  It is not ideal for the student athlete.

I would have to think about whether or not this would work (this may be an easy exercise for some of you), but I do wonder if they could reward a few top teams with a first round bye and invite two play-in teams instead.

For example, instead of a four-pod team at Augustana during the first weekend they invite Greenville and (laugh, cry) Aurora to Rock Island for a Friday game with the winner playing Augustana.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 06, 2018, 07:17:58 PM

It's also never going to happen.  We're capped at 64 no matter how many schools join d3.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 06, 2018, 08:07:05 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 06, 2018, 07:17:58 PM

It's also never going to happen.  We're capped at 64 no matter how many schools join d3.

I didn't know that. Is that some kind of bylaw written with blood?
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 07, 2018, 07:34:44 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 06, 2018, 08:07:05 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 06, 2018, 07:17:58 PM

It's also never going to happen.  We're capped at 64 no matter how many schools join d3.

I didn't know that. Is that some kind of bylaw written with blood?

Yep.  The NCAA doesn't want to spend money.  Every tournament in every sport at every level (except the D1 men's tournament, where all the money is made) I believe was formally capped at 64.  Obviously, they could go back and vote to change that, but I doubt it'll ever happen.  It's all about cost control.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: USee on March 07, 2018, 10:29:15 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 07, 2018, 07:34:44 AM
Every tournament in every sport at every level (except ......

Famous last words......
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Just Bill on March 07, 2018, 10:45:34 AM
The current bylaw is the there is one tournament berth for every 6.5 schools that sponsor the sport to a maximum of 64 berths. There has been discussion about lowering the ratio to 1:6 (or possibly some other ratio), but I doubt the 64 team maximum will change.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: HOPEful on March 07, 2018, 11:19:18 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 07, 2018, 07:34:44 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 06, 2018, 08:07:05 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 06, 2018, 07:17:58 PM

It's also never going to happen.  We're capped at 64 no matter how many schools join d3.

I didn't know that. Is that some kind of bylaw written with blood?

Yep.  The NCAA doesn't want to spend money.  Every tournament in every sport at every level (except the D1 men's tournament, where all the money is made) I believe was formally capped at 64.  Obviously, they could go back and vote to change that, but I doubt it'll ever happen.  It's all about cost control.

I think in the midst of the fun of madness, we tend to lose sight of what the tournament tries to accomplish. The primary objective is to make money crown a national champion. Amherst and Loras may feel slighted being left out this year, but only when comparing themselves to LeTourneau and Brockport. Neither team had reasonable expectations to make it to Salem.

I don't see a need to add more teams. I think there are many reasons why it would actually make the D3 playoffs worse, not better.

1. Someone will always feel slighted. If they set up a play-in game system and add 4 teams, teams left at the table like Ohio Wesleyan, Hobart, Gwynedd Mercy, etc. will still argue they should have been in over ______ school.

2. Would I love a truly fair system that picked each team and seeded them without considering the financial concerns of geography? Sure. But that's not going to happen. We can't even get Whitworth out of the same pool as Whitman! With geography and title 9 (priority for women to host) , there are plenty of times where the host team isn't necessarily the most deserving of the "1 seed". Personally, I prefer a little bit of a "watered down" pool so that the NCAA can be creative when they're forced to send a legitimate top contender on the road, rewarding them with a low end 3 seed rather than a real test in the first round.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 07, 2018, 12:04:19 PM
So interesting this whole idea came up because I've been talking to someone who has some sway and this is an idea he has already been mulling over. He wants to bring it to Division III and discuss it at the very least. His example is that D1 has 11 less conferences and nearly 100 less programs, yet have 68-team field that brings in some teams that have no business being there (he is very familiar with D1, he isn't a D3 guy who looks up at the bright lights; he knows the bright lights extensively). He feels this is a bit ridiculous for D1, but sees an advantage for D3. The idea being this: have some of those last at-large teams play each other (not the AQs from small conferences) and make them prove they should be in the tournament to some degree. He fully admits the idea may be a stretch and the travel would be the biggest challenge.

While the NCAA rules do say 64-team field and the idea of expanding and getting a bylaw changed seems like a stretch, I would also remind everyone that the schools are the ones who make the decisions and vote on these things and if enough feel, especially with and expanding division, it is worth doing, they can change their bylaws. It may not happen in the very near future, but as schools and conferences start to see how much more difficult it is to get into the tournament (it is FAR more difficult to qualify for the DIII tournament than the DI), than who knows if they change things.

Yes, money is an issue... but I have stated it before... the division has to start thinking about how to raise its own revenue. The idea recently to return the extra money raised in the higher dues because the division didn't technically need it was one of the worst, short-sighted, and forgetful suggestions I have heard in a long time. Worst case, put the money in a rainy day fund. Best case, start finding ways to bring in more money so bracketing can be more national and/or we can expand tournaments like football accordingly (though, admittedly that one has other challenges like how long the event is taking already).
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 07, 2018, 01:00:57 PM
If I remember correctly, when the D3 tourney first expanded from 32 teams to 40 back in the late '80s, the initial round  -- which only involved sixteen teams, and was played on the Tuesday before the opening pods (which were called "regionals" back then) -- was not covered by the NCAA in terms of ancillary costs. Schools had to fund their own travel and lodgings; the NCAA only covered the costs involved with the game itself, such as paying the officials and the table staff, which I think is still the setup that the NAIA uses. Perhaps a change in the bylaws to expand the tourney by adding an extra layer of games might be more feasible to the NCAA membership constituency if it was presented with this cost-cutting measure as a part of the proposal.

It would have to involve Pool C teams, since many of the one-bid leagues consist of schools that have fewer financial resources and for whom paying for travel and lodging for that first round might constitute a prohibitive burden. As much as I agree with the SLIAC coach to whom hopefan spoke, who said that putting the AQs from these one-bid leagues into that extra round might give them more of a fighting chance to pick up a tournament win, I think that the bottom line here is cost -- and those teams shouldn't be forced to pay for anything involved in their Pool A berths. Let the costs be borne by the schools from the power conferences that would get those extra berths, since they're more apt to be able to afford it. And if an Ohio Wesleyan or a Hobart or an Amherst or a Loras couldn't or wouldn't pay the extra costs involved, or felt that an extra midweek game at the end of February or beginning of March would mean too much missed class time, they could always decline the bid and it could be given to somebody else.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 07, 2018, 01:03:26 PM
The first rounds covered by the schools was also something that happened in the late 90s when the division initially went to a 64-team field. That first round was paid for by the schools. It didn't last long, but I don't have any memory as to why - could have been more about all sports having the opportunity and it getting a little out of control. That may have been where the 6.5:1 system came to be.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 07, 2018, 01:11:45 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 07, 2018, 01:03:26 PM
The first rounds covered by the schools was also something that happened in the late 90s when the division initially went to a 64-team field. That first round was paid for by the schools. It didn't last long, but I don't have any memory as to why - could have been more about all sports having the opportunity and it getting a little out of control. That may have been where the 6.5:1 system came to be.
I do not recall the early rounds being paid by the university in the early 2000's when the access ratio was 1:7.5.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 07, 2018, 01:13:37 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 07, 2018, 01:03:26 PM
The first rounds covered by the schools was also something that happened in the late 90s when the division initially went to a 64-team field. That first round was paid for by the schools. It didn't last long, but I don't have any memory as to why - could have been more about all sports having the opportunity and it getting a little out of control. That may have been where the 6.5:1 system came to be.

Well, that and the fact that, in a 64-team field, the schools were essentially paying for the first two rounds (played Friday/Saturday, same as the current model), rather than just one, with the NCAA carrying the full tab for the second and third weekends. That's why I used the 40-team-field example; it more closely mirrors what the midweek play-in format would look like in this proposed scenario.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: fantastic50 on March 07, 2018, 01:23:10 PM
If midweek preliminary games were going to be added, they would need to be within a much shorter travel radius than 500 miles.  In D-I, nobody bats an eye at basketball players on elite teams missing classes for most of March, with four consecutive weekends of travel, starting on Wednesday, in many cases.  In D-III, missing Tuesday & Wednesday classes for a Tuesday night preliminary round 400 miles away, followed by Thursday afternoon & Friday somewhere else for the winners, isn't going to cut it.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 07, 2018, 01:29:08 PM
Quote from: fantastic50 on March 07, 2018, 01:23:10 PM
If midweek preliminary games were going to be added, they would need to be within a much shorter travel radius than 500 miles.  In D-I, nobody bats an eye at basketball players on elite teams missing classes for most of March, with four consecutive weekends of travel, starting on Wednesday, in many cases.  In D-III, missing Tuesday & Wednesday classes for a Tuesday night preliminary round 400 miles away, followed by Thursday afternoon & Friday somewhere else for the winners, isn't going to cut it.

Yep... no one I've had the conversations with dismisses any of that.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 07, 2018, 01:32:20 PM
Yeah. That is a tough sell. Maybe play Tuesday and Friday? I do recall Lawrence fans complaining about the quick turnaround when they had to travel to Buena Vista (it was an IIAC team), on Thursday and then travel to Point for a Saturday game, and that had nothing to do with missed class time.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 07, 2018, 01:53:44 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 07, 2018, 01:13:37 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 07, 2018, 01:03:26 PM
The first rounds covered by the schools was also something that happened in the late 90s when the division initially went to a 64-team field. That first round was paid for by the schools. It didn't last long, but I don't have any memory as to why - could have been more about all sports having the opportunity and it getting a little out of control. That may have been where the 6.5:1 system came to be.

Well, that and the fact that, in a 64-team field, the schools were essentially paying for the first two rounds (played Friday/Saturday, same as the current model), rather than just one, with the NCAA carrying the full tab for the second and third weekends. That's why I used the 40-team-field example; it more closely mirrors what the midweek play-in format would look like in this proposed scenario.

The 64-team play-in to the 32-team bracket, as was the mid-1990s format, was Thursday-Saturday, so the NCAA did pick up the second round on the first weekend.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 07, 2018, 02:05:18 PM
I'm thoroughly enjoying this conversation because when I posted my "fun with numbers" post, I didn't think I'd get this much reaction.

My first thought was to have the bottom 8-10 1-bid conferences play each other to open up more "deserving" Pool C teams, for example, Amherst, River Falls, OWU etc. Others countered with having those extra Pool C teams play each other to "prove they deserve" to be in the tourney.

I understand the outcry to have 1-bid conference teams NOT play in these so-called play-in games because they won their conference tourney and "deserve" to be in the NCAAs. For one, I think it's a joke that the conference tourney decides who get the AQ. I suppose it's the conference's decision, but I'm sure 1.) Berry loves the idea and 2.) Centre hates the idea. But, who's to say all because you win your conference tournament, you "deserve" to be in? I think we can all agree if you put in a middle-of-the-table team from a "power conference" they'll do pretty well in a lower level conference year in and year out. This is no disrespect to those leagues, it's just fact.

Instead of the bottom 1-bid conference teams playing each other or the bottom Pool C bid teams playing each other, why not have the bottom 4 from each group play each other. I find it amusing that some have said the Pool C teams need to "prove themselves" when this year's records for Pool C teams have proved they belong.

As initially stated, Pool C teams are 23-12 while 1-bid conference teams are just 9-27.  Taking a closer look...

Pool C teams are 11-2 against 1-bid conference teams.

LeTourneau beat Hanover
CNU beat Lancaster Bible
Franklin & Marshall beat Emory and Henry
Swarthmore beat NEC
Hamilton beat Nazareth
Wesleyan beat S. Vermont
Springfield beat Cabrini in the 2nd round
Whitman beat Schreiner and then CMS
Emory beat Berry
Platteville beat Monmouth

On the other hand:

Bethany Lutheran upset St. John's and Union topped NJCU.

I also pointed out that NINE of those 21 Pool C teams advanced to the Sweet 16 (Swarthmore, F&M, Hamilton, Middlebury, Springfield, Whitman, Emory, Oshkosh and Platteville) while on ONE of the 28 1-bid leagues had a team advance (Nebraska Wesleyan, and they beat 1-bid league teams Maryville and Aurora).

And, of the 15 leagues that had more than one bid, SIX advanced their AQ, Augustana, MIT, Ramapo, JCU, Plattsburgh and Stevens Point.

I love the underdogs. It makes the tourney great. But with over 400 teams at 43 AQs, that only leaves 21 Pool Cs. I think it proves that the best teams aren't in the tourney and though that will never be the case, I think things can change to balance out the haves and have-nots while not completely eliminating the have-nots.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 07, 2018, 03:06:06 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 07, 2018, 01:32:20 PM
Yeah. That is a tough sell. Maybe play Tuesday and Friday? I do recall Lawrence fans complaining about the quick turnaround when they had to travel to Buena Vista (it was an IIAC team), on Thursday and then travel to Point for a Saturday game, and that had nothing to do with missed class time.

"You WANT to play that Thursday game. You NEED to play that Thursday game. You have to show you are capable of winning an NCAA Tournament game!"

One of the better Hoopsville Selection Sunday discussions to be honest. While we didn't do video at the time, I vividly remember the setting and those involved and why the quote came to be. :)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 07, 2018, 03:37:18 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 07, 2018, 01:53:44 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 07, 2018, 01:13:37 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 07, 2018, 01:03:26 PM
The first rounds covered by the schools was also something that happened in the late 90s when the division initially went to a 64-team field. That first round was paid for by the schools. It didn't last long, but I don't have any memory as to why - could have been more about all sports having the opportunity and it getting a little out of control. That may have been where the 6.5:1 system came to be.

Well, that and the fact that, in a 64-team field, the schools were essentially paying for the first two rounds (played Friday/Saturday, same as the current model), rather than just one, with the NCAA carrying the full tab for the second and third weekends. That's why I used the 40-team-field example; it more closely mirrors what the midweek play-in format would look like in this proposed scenario.

The 64-team play-in to the 32-team bracket, as was the mid-1990s format, was Thursday-Saturday, so the NCAA did pick up the second round on the first weekend.

Yeah, now that I think about it, you're right.

Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 07, 2018, 01:32:20 PM
Yeah. That is a tough sell. Maybe play Tuesday and Friday? I do recall Lawrence fans complaining about the quick turnaround when they had to travel to Buena Vista (it was an IIAC team), on Thursday and then travel to Point for a Saturday game, and that had nothing to do with missed class time.

It would be Tuesday (field winnowed down to 64), followed by the current Friday/Saturday pod format with the field of 64.

Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 07, 2018, 02:05:18 PMFor one, I think it's a joke that the conference tourney decides who get the AQ. I suppose it's the conference's decision, but I'm sure 1.) Berry loves the idea and 2.) Centre hates the idea.

Not necessarily. The people at Centre know full well that next season, or the season after that, or five seasons down the road, it could be the Colonels who are sitting in Berry's situation.

Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 07, 2018, 02:05:18 PMBut, who's to say all because you win your conference tournament, you "deserve" to be in?

You answered your own question, two sentences earlier:

Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 07, 2018, 02:05:18 PMI suppose it's the conference's decision

Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 07, 2018, 02:05:18 PMI think we can all agree if you put in a middle-of-the-table team from a "power conference" they'll do pretty well in a lower level conference year in and year out. This is no disrespect to those leagues, it's just fact.

Sure, it's a fact. But it's also not germane to the primary mission of NCAA championships, which is to provide equal access to championship competition to the entire membership -- not to get the 64 best teams in the nation into the bracket.

Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 07, 2018, 02:05:18 PMInstead of the bottom 1-bid conference teams playing each other or the bottom Pool C bid teams playing each other, why not have the bottom 4 from each group play each other. I find it amusing that some have said the Pool C teams need to "prove themselves" when this year's records for Pool C teams have proved they belong.

Sure, they could do it that way. But the reason why I suggested that Pool A's (including the lesser-league Pool A's such as Greenville, Nichols, Yeshiva, Bethany Lutheran, Southern Vermont, etc.) should be exempted from having to participate in the play-in round in an expanded tourney is because in my proposal the play-in round participants would be footing their own bills for transportation and lodging. That's a considerable expense, and a lot of the schools that are in those lesser leagues aren't exactly swimming in dough. Playing all their games on the NCAA's dime should be their reward for qualifying for the tourney, in keeping with the equal-access doctrine, while the Pool C's, which did not qualify for the field by the equal-access standard, should have their bottom teams foot the bills by playing in the play-in round.

Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 07, 2018, 02:05:18 PM
I love the underdogs. It makes the tourney great. But with over 400 teams at 43 AQs, that only leaves 21 Pool Cs. I think it proves that the best teams aren't in the tourney and though that will never be the case, I think things can change to balance out the haves and have-nots while not completely eliminating the have-nots.

The best teams are in the tournament, though. Once you get past those 21 Pool C's, you're looking at teams whose capability of cutting down the nets in Salem really isn't there. That's not to say that Ohio Wesleyan, Hobart, Loras, Amherst, etc., couldn't win a game or two and make a good showing for themselves. But they weren't Final Four material. All of the teams that are really capable of winning the national championship are in the field, and that's been true every season since the last non-participating holdout league, the NESCAC, finally started participating in the dance over three decades ago.

As for the "haves and have-nots" business, again, the NCAA model is built around the idea of equal access for everybody. Any configuration of an NCAA championship tournament is going to have to be built with that axiom first in mind.

Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: HOPEful on March 07, 2018, 03:42:24 PM
If (REALLY REALLY BIG IF) they could make the geographies work, I'd be all for a play in game with OWU playing Hobart, Brockport playing Amherst, etc.

Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 07, 2018, 03:58:18 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 07, 2018, 03:06:06 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 07, 2018, 01:32:20 PM
Yeah. That is a tough sell. Maybe play Tuesday and Friday? I do recall Lawrence fans complaining about the quick turnaround when they had to travel to Buena Vista (it was an IIAC team), on Thursday and then travel to Point for a Saturday game, and that had nothing to do with missed class time.

"You WANT to play that Thursday game. You NEED to play that Thursday game. You have to show you are capable of winning an NCAA Tournament game!"

One of the better Hoopsville Selection Sunday discussions to be honest. While we didn't do video at the time, I vividly remember the setting and those involved and why the quote came to be. :)

Hah -- that was a fun night! I sure didn't have much voice left by that time of the night.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 07, 2018, 04:28:25 PM
If this year's field had been expanded to 68 under my proposal, this is how that Tuesday play-in night would've looked, using the final regional rankings plus Drew Pasteur's graph on page 515 of the Pool C room to select the four extra Pool C's (East Texas Baptist, Hobart, Loras, and Keene State):

Tuesday, February 27
Keene State @ Springfield
Hobart @ Brockport
East Texas Baptist @ LeTourneau
Loras @ Illinois Wesleyan

Friday, March 2
Keene State/Springfield winner vs. Albright
Hobart/Brockport winner vs. MIT
East Texas Baptist/LeTourneau winner vs. Hanover
Loras/Illinois Wesleyan winner vs. Wooster
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 07, 2018, 04:32:41 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 07, 2018, 04:28:25 PM
If this year's field had been expanded to 68 under my proposal, this is how that Tuesday play-in night would've looked, using the final regional rankings plus Drew Pasteur's graph on page 515 of the Pool C room to select the four extra Pool C's (East Texas Baptist, Hobart, Loras, and Keene State):

Tuesday, February 27
Keene State @ Springfield
Hobart @ Brockport
East Texas Baptist @ LeTourneau
Loras @ Illinois Wesleyan

Friday, March 2
Keene State/Springfield winner vs. Albright
Hobart/Brockport winner vs. MIT
East Texas Baptist/LeTourneau winner vs. Hanover
Loras/Illinois Wesleyan winner vs. Wooster

Knowing what I know, ETBU would have hosted LOL - I suspect they still would have required the schools to put in bid rights. :)

I would also say, I would hope if they could they would avoid regional games... maybe Hobart is playing Springfield. I know the Texas schools may have been unavoidable, but that is also assuming another Texas school would have gotten in (I know the system you were using; I am considering the one we got to).

But yeah... similar thinking. It may require alerting those schools on Sunday night, but then again... let US know on Sunday night so we can make the announcement and then the rest of the tournament could still be announced Monday!
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 07, 2018, 04:39:41 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 07, 2018, 04:32:41 PMI would also say, I would hope if they could they would avoid regional games... maybe Hobart is playing Springfield.

I was thinking more in terms of the fact that it would've been scheduled for a Tuesday night, thus making travel time on a school night an important factor. Hobart to Brockport is a little over an hour's drive; Hobart to Springfield is four and a half hours. Keene State to Springfield is a little under two hours; Keene State to Brockport is almost six hours.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 07, 2018, 04:47:02 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 07, 2018, 04:39:41 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 07, 2018, 04:32:41 PMI would also say, I would hope if they could they would avoid regional games... maybe Hobart is playing Springfield.

I was thinking more in terms of the fact that it would've been scheduled for a Tuesday night, thus making travel time on a school night an important factor. Hobart to Brockport is a little over an hour's drive; Hobart to Springfield is four and a half hours. Keene State to Springfield is a little under two hours; Keene State to Brockport is almost six hours.

Oh, I get that entirely. That would have to be a factor. I was going a little off the cuff, but even the person I was talking to admitted geography and shorter distances would have to be a factor to be sure... which also means it may not be the last teams in. One may have to play a team that got in halfway through the process because the mileage works.

In other words, the committee would have to make the best decisions possible on what the right teams playing would be and not necessarily based on them being the last in. The last four teams to get in would have to probably prove it against those who got in a lot higher.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 07, 2018, 05:19:54 PM
Just some thoughts...

Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 07, 2018, 02:05:18 PM
I'm thoroughly enjoying this conversation because when I posted my "fun with numbers" post, I didn't think I'd get this much reaction.

My first thought was to have the bottom 8-10 1-bid conferences play each other to open up more "deserving" Pool C teams, for example, Amherst, River Falls, OWU etc. Others countered with having those extra Pool C teams play each other to "prove they deserve" to be in the tourney.

I understand the outcry to have 1-bid conference teams NOT play in these so-called play-in games because they won their conference tourney and "deserve" to be in the NCAAs. For one, I think it's a joke that the conference tourney decides who get the AQ. I suppose it's the conference's decision, but I'm sure 1.) Berry loves the idea and 2.) Centre hates the idea. But, who's to say all because you win your conference tournament, you "deserve" to be in? I think we can all agree if you put in a middle-of-the-table team from a "power conference" they'll do pretty well in a lower level conference year in and year out. This is no disrespect to those leagues, it's just fact.

Instead of the bottom 1-bid conference teams playing each other or the bottom Pool C bid teams playing each other, why not have the bottom 4 from each group play each other. I find it amusing that some have said the Pool C teams need to "prove themselves" when this year's records for Pool C teams have proved they belong.

As initially stated, Pool C teams are 23-12 while 1-bid conference teams are just 9-27.  Taking a closer look...

Pool C teams are 11-2 against 1-bid conference teams. [Yeah, let's look at those 1-bid conferences... there is a lot of "chopped liver" in that group /sarcasm off]

LeTourneau beat Hanover  HCAC
CNU beat Lancaster Bible  NEAC
Franklin & Marshall beat Emory and Henry  ODAC
Swarthmore beat NEC  NAC
Hamilton beat Nazareth  E8
Wesleyan beat S. Vermont  NECC
Springfield beat Cabrini   CSAC, but in the 2nd round
Whitman beat Schreiner SCAC and then CMS  SCIAC, but in the 2nd round
Emory beat Berry  SAA
Platteville beat Monmouth  MWC

On the other hand:

Bethany Lutheran UMAC upset St. John's and Union LL topped NJCU.

I also pointed out that NINE of those 21 Pool C teams advanced to the Sweet 16 (Swarthmore, F&M, Hamilton, Middlebury, Springfield, Whitman, Emory, Oshkosh and Platteville) while on ONE of the 28 1-bid leagues had a team advance (Nebraska Wesleyan, and they beat 1-bid league teams Maryville and Aurora).

And, of the 15 leagues that had more than one bid, SIX advanced their AQ, Augustana, MIT, Ramapo, JCU, Plattsburgh and Stevens Point.

I love the underdogs. It makes the tourney great. But with over 400 teams at 43 AQs, that only leaves 21 Pool Cs. I think it proves that the best teams aren't in the tourney and though that will never be the case, I think things can change to balance out the haves and have-nots while not completely eliminating the have-nots.
Back to the old comments...

Back in November, every team in D3 knows what it has to do.

We have 21 "do-overs" by teams that failed the first time around.  As for adding a play-in game in mid week, how much would ETBU and LeTourneau  (30 miles apart) would love to play for a 4th time this season, cumulative scores after 120 minutes of basketball being 289 to 289?  As it was, Pool C Emory, the runner-up in the UAA, almost choked on their home court to a lowly LeTourneau, whom most pundits thought was the 20th or 21st team selected and was flown to Atlanta.

We have so much parity in D3, we have to admit that we must draw the line somewhere.  64 works!
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: smedindy on March 07, 2018, 06:00:48 PM
Leave no doubt! Win the conference tourney!
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: kiko on March 07, 2018, 11:27:02 PM
So, two random thoughts on this topic.  And before I tee them up, I should note for the record that I do not support expanding the tournament beyond its current size.  If you do so, though:

- If you expand from 64 to 68, as noted above, you may not be able to set up a bracket so the play-in games are the last eight teams in the field from a school night/travel time standpoint.  Given how much more restricted access to the tournament is in D3 versus in D1, one potential solution for this is to go to 72 rather than 68 teams.  I don't know that there is a dramatic difference between Pool C #25 and Pool C #29, so you're not necessarily watering down the field, but what you are doing is giving yourself more options to make this work geographically.

- One blasphemous solution to the 'how do I fund this?' question for a tournament expansion of any size: have the NCAA pay travel expenses only for teams that got in via Pool A.  You backdoor your way into the tournament?  Congratulations -- you can come to our party, but it is on your dime.  This would free up some funds, which could potentially be used to de-regionalize the brackets a bit more, like the year the committee somehow got permission to spend like drunken sailors and shipped Carthage from Wisconsin to the East Coast.  I doubt this idea would fly (read as: I'm well aware that it is a non-starter) as not too many D3 schools are rolling in money, and being the lucky Pool C team that is shipped to Walla Walla could be a costly endeavor.  But it does protect the A's from this fate, and preserves the equal access philosophy that is a big part of the tournament's DNA.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Onward on, John Carroll on March 08, 2018, 08:07:32 AM
Quote from: Onward on, John Carroll on March 04, 2018, 09:14:34 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 04, 2018, 09:10:07 AM
Quote from: Onward on, John Carroll on March 04, 2018, 09:02:30 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 04, 2018, 08:30:05 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 04, 2018, 08:17:18 AM
Is there any leniency on the 500 mile rule? University Heights to Rock Island is 507 on Google maps (I know that's not what the NCAA uses). I just think they'd save a plane full of money by making JCU bus an extra 15 minutes.

No, there isn't. The 500-mile-radius rule is arbitrary -- there's no reason why the NCAA couldn't have set the radius at 510 miles, or 490 miles, when it made the rule -- but there are a lot of rules in life that are arbitrary. The point, however, is to set the marker and keep it there, so that everybody understands it and knows well ahead of time what the rule is. If you make exceptions here and there for the sake of a few miles, then the rule ceases to have any meaning. It stops being a rule altogether, and then you have the anarchy of a team complaining, "Hey, you let Team A fly last year when it was 480 miles from the site ... well, we're only 479 miles from our site, so why do we have to take the bus?"

There's no reason why JCU has to fly. Blue Streaks head coach Pete Moran, or the JCU athletic director, could opt to bus his team to Rock Island instead. It's certainly not unheard-of for teams to take the busing option even when the NCAA offers the team the opportunity to fly on the NCAA's dime. If I remember correctly, Grey Giovanine has elected to have Augustana bus to Salem, for example, for Augie's two Final Four trips over the past three seasons.

However, I don't think the reverse is true. I don't think you're allowed to fly if it's under 500 miles even if you pay for it yourself. I remember Mount getting dinged for that on their first or second Stagg Bowl trip. They flew even thought it was under 500 miles - they chartered a team flight and a fan flight. Of course, maybe the rules changed.

You can pay for your own flight whenever you want, at least in basketball.  The NCAA doesn't care if you spend your own money.  They might not reimburse you for anything if you fly (like they might not give you the bus equivalent), but you can travel however you want if its on your own dime.

Thanks Ryan, for the clarification. It's been 25 years. Maybe a I remember it wrong. That's said, I doubt Carroll will pony up for a charter flight so Coach Moran is going to have start figuring out what he wants to do.

Not to interrupt the tournament expansion discussion, but I wanted to update everyone on a discussion from this weekend.  JCU decided to forego its "right" to a flight and bus to Augustana.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 08, 2018, 08:49:32 AM
Quote from: kiko on March 07, 2018, 11:27:02 PM
So, two random thoughts on this topic.  And before I tee them up, I should note for the record that I do not support expanding the tournament beyond its current size.  If you do so, though:

- If you expand from 64 to 68, as noted above, you may not be able to set up a bracket so the play-in games are the last eight teams in the field from a school night/travel time standpoint.  Given how much more restricted access to the tournament is in D3 versus in D1, one potential solution for this is to go to 72 rather than 68 teams.  I don't know that there is a dramatic difference between Pool C #25 and Pool C #29, so you're not necessarily watering down the field, but what you are doing is giving yourself more options to make this work geographically.

I was thinking about this idea yesterday as well. If you did 72 then you could pit the last in vs. first out in every region. I know we like the committee to mix it up as much as possible, but regional play-in games would travel and early bracketing a lot cleaner for the committee. Big downside: My guess is we'd end up with a fair number of conference matchups.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: fantastic50 on March 08, 2018, 09:09:54 AM
This is all fun to dream about, but between funding, logistical issues with travel, and missed class time, I don't think expansion beyond 64 stands a realistic chance of getting approved at the NCAA level.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: John Gleich on March 08, 2018, 09:13:26 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 07, 2018, 01:32:20 PM
Yeah. That is a tough sell. Maybe play Tuesday and Friday? I do recall Lawrence fans complaining about the quick turnaround when they had to travel to Buena Vista (it was an IIAC team), on Thursday and then travel to Point for a Saturday game, and that had nothing to do with missed class time.

It was Gustavus Adolphus (https://gustavus.edu/athletics/mbb/archives/2004-05/). Always and forever in St. Peter, Minnesota. And LU fans were just upset they didn't have anywhere to sit in Quandt because they were tailgating until 5 minutes after tip-off and it was a packed house.

As an aside, it's refreshing to have a bracket that's more diverse these days...

02-03 Gustavus Adolphus beat UWSP in the second round
03-04 UWSP beat Gustavus Adolphus in the second round Puget Sound in the Sweet 16 and Lawrence in the Elite 8
04-05 UWSP beat Lawrence (who beat GA in the first round) in the second round, Pugets Sound in the Sweet 16
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 08, 2018, 09:33:30 AM
Something I'd like to see is for conferences to diminish their conference tournaments. It's a great story to have some low seeded team get hot and make their way in but it diminishes the value of the regular season. If you know your conference is a one bid league then why bother playing the regular season if all that matters is a few games in February?
I'd be all for the UAA model of no tournament but if you had to have one, do something like:
a) 2 vs 5 and 3 vs 4 then the winner of that pod plays the 1 in the final
b) 1 vs 4 and 2 vs 3 and if the winner is someone other than the 1 they have to play the 1 seed
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 08, 2018, 09:35:27 AM
Thanks for the correction, John. I had just remembered it was a long trip for them and they complained a lot about that (I suppose for good reason). And yes, I also recall what horrible hosts we were when we actually had a section roped off just for Lawrence fans, but some of them just wanted to sit wherever they wanted to.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 08, 2018, 09:48:07 AM
I'm definitely not in favor of expanding past 64. I suppose it seemed like that with my "play-in" proposal. As there has been resistance in the bottom 10 conferences playing play-in games or even the bottom Pool C teams doing likewise, why don't we just rotate those play-in games and keep them regional? Even if the CCIW has to play the WIAC one year, In fact, you could almost open up an extra pre-round and have 42 or 44 conferences play another and have 21 or 22 AQs and then pick 42 Pool C's. I think the Pool C teams are generally stronger than half of the AQs, 28 of them this year as 1-bid leagues. My proposal was to simply add more Pool C's because I believe that's where the best teams are. If Augustana beats Platteville in their play-in game, Platteville is probably going to get a Pool C anyway while Greenville beating Monmouth would open up a Pool C slot for a possibly more deserving at-large team.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: lmitzel on March 08, 2018, 10:58:14 AM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 08, 2018, 09:33:30 AM
Something I'd like to see is for conferences to diminish their conference tournaments. It's a great story to have some low seeded team get hot and make their way in but it diminishes the value of the regular season. If you know your conference is a one bid league then why bother playing the regular season if all that matters is a few games in February?
I'd be all for the UAA model of no tournament but if you had to have one, do something like:
a) 2 vs 5 and 3 vs 4 then the winner of that pod plays the 1 in the final
b) 1 vs 4 and 2 vs 3 and if the winner is someone other than the 1 they have to play the 1 seed

This topic came up in the CCIW board a couple months ago when the conference announced it was expanding its conference tournament from four to six. I'm actually a fan of the expansion. With it for next year I think the number came out to roughly 62 percent of teams nationwide play in their conference's tournament (factoring in that the UAA doesn't have one).

I can see the argument that it diminishes the regular season (which is why I'm glad that most conferences don't just invite everyone to the postseason tournament) but you're arguably adding more value to the regular season in that more games will matter in the grand scheme of things.

Yeah, the conference tournaments can boost team's Pool C chances if they lose, or increase the likelihood of hosting a weekend or two in the NCAA's, but those extra 1-3 games don't count any more than a Tip Off Tournament game in November or a first matchup between rivals in January.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 08, 2018, 11:14:54 AM
Quote from: fantastic50 on March 08, 2018, 09:09:54 AM
This is all fun to dream about, but between funding, logistical issues with travel, and missed class time, I don't think expansion beyond 64 stands a realistic chance of getting approved at the NCAA level.

I definitely agree, but I think that this conversation serves a purpose beyond mere wishful thinking or the idle chatter of fans stuck in midweek-wait mode. It's always good to examine the motivations behind NCAA policy and bracket construction. F'rinstance, you'll never see D1 fans introduce missed class time as a factor in talking about how to shape brackets.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: sac on March 08, 2018, 11:41:02 AM
It would be great to play a 30 game regular season too.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: smedindy on March 08, 2018, 12:41:34 PM
Quote from: sac on March 08, 2018, 11:41:02 AM
It would be great to play a 30 game regular season too.

Like the NAIA? No thanks.

I know overworked SIDs who would not approve of hoops intruding in on the fall sports cavalcade. (Here, it's football, CC, women's soccer, volleyball, and rugby - the women with XV's and the men with 7's - when exhibition hoops starts we have to almost clone people).
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: lefty2 on March 08, 2018, 12:48:33 PM
Quote from: smedindy on March 08, 2018, 12:41:34 PM
Quote from: sac on March 08, 2018, 11:41:02 AM
It would be great to play a 30 game regular season too.

Like the NAIA? No thanks.

I know overworked SIDs who would not approve of hoops intruding in on the fall sports cavalcade. (Here, it's football, CC, women's soccer, volleyball, and rugby - the women with XV's and the men with 7's - when exhibition hoops starts we have to almost clone people).
No decision has ever been made with SID's in mind.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 08, 2018, 05:13:22 PM
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The Sectional Round games are here. Soon 16 teams on both the men's and women's brackets will be whittled to eight ... and before we know it just four will remain.

Who will advance, who will fall short of the final weekend, and who is best prepared? Hard to answer all of those questions, but on Thursday's edition of Hoopsville Dave will have plenty of guests who will give us their insight on their programs.

Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. You can watch the show LIVE starting at 7pm ET right here:http://bit.ly/2FBCA0N.

If you have questions, be sure to email them to hoopsville@d3hoops.com or interact with the show via the social media avenues.

Guests include (in order of appearance):
- Bob Amsberry, No. 2 Wartburg women's coach
- Brian Morehouse, No. 4 Hope women's coach (WBCA Center Court)
- Glenn Robinson, Franklin & Marshall men's coach
- Charlie Brock, Springfield men's coach
- Eric Bridgeland, No. 1 Whitman men's coach
- Jim Scheible, No. 16 Rochester women's coach

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Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 08, 2018, 08:48:31 PM
Quote from: lmitzel on March 08, 2018, 10:58:14 AM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 08, 2018, 09:33:30 AM
Something I'd like to see is for conferences to diminish their conference tournaments. It's a great story to have some low seeded team get hot and make their way in but it diminishes the value of the regular season. If you know your conference is a one bid league then why bother playing the regular season if all that matters is a few games in February?
I'd be all for the UAA model of no tournament but if you had to have one, do something like:
a) 2 vs 5 and 3 vs 4 then the winner of that pod plays the 1 in the final
b) 1 vs 4 and 2 vs 3 and if the winner is someone other than the 1 they have to play the 1 seed

This topic came up in the CCIW board a couple months ago when the conference announced it was expanding its conference tournament from four to six. I'm actually a fan of the expansion. With it for next year I think the number came out to roughly 62 percent of teams nationwide play in their conference's tournament (factoring in that the UAA doesn't have one).

I can see the argument that it diminishes the regular season (which is why I'm glad that most conferences don't just invite everyone to the postseason tournament) but you're arguably adding more value to the regular season in that more games will matter in the grand scheme of things.

Yeah, the conference tournaments can boost team's Pool C chances if they lose, or increase the likelihood of hosting a weekend or two in the NCAA's, but those extra 1-3 games don't count any more than a Tip Off Tournament game in November or a first matchup between rivals in January.

This is my take. It's really not much fun to play games when you're eliminated. If everyone's invited to the conference tournament then everybody has something to play for in every single game. Even if it's not for seeding, it's to get better and to keep working to grow as a team.

I like the idea that a team's season doesn't have to end until they lose a tournament game of some sort. If I was the Sports Czar, I'd stipulate that conferences only get an AQ if they award it to their tournament champion with every conference member receiving a invite.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 08, 2018, 10:11:32 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 08, 2018, 08:48:31 PM
Quote from: lmitzel on March 08, 2018, 10:58:14 AM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 08, 2018, 09:33:30 AM
Something I'd like to see is for conferences to diminish their conference tournaments. It's a great story to have some low seeded team get hot and make their way in but it diminishes the value of the regular season. If you know your conference is a one bid league then why bother playing the regular season if all that matters is a few games in February?
I'd be all for the UAA model of no tournament but if you had to have one, do something like:
a) 2 vs 5 and 3 vs 4 then the winner of that pod plays the 1 in the final
b) 1 vs 4 and 2 vs 3 and if the winner is someone other than the 1 they have to play the 1 seed

This topic came up in the CCIW board a couple months ago when the conference announced it was expanding its conference tournament from four to six. I'm actually a fan of the expansion. With it for next year I think the number came out to roughly 62 percent of teams nationwide play in their conference's tournament (factoring in that the UAA doesn't have one).

I can see the argument that it diminishes the regular season (which is why I'm glad that most conferences don't just invite everyone to the postseason tournament) but you're arguably adding more value to the regular season in that more games will matter in the grand scheme of things.

Yeah, the conference tournaments can boost team's Pool C chances if they lose, or increase the likelihood of hosting a weekend or two in the NCAA's, but those extra 1-3 games don't count any more than a Tip Off Tournament game in November or a first matchup between rivals in January.

This is my take. It's really not much fun to play games when you're eliminated. If everyone's invited to the conference tournament then everybody has something to play for in every single game. Even if it's not for seeding, it's to get better and to keep working to grow as a team.

I like the idea that a team's season doesn't have to end until they lose a tournament game of some sort. If I was the Sports Czar, I'd stipulate that conferences only get an AQ if they award it to their tournament champion with every conference member receiving a invite.

So on one hand you're saying everyone should be invited so they have something to play for and then you say if you aren't playing for seeding, play to get better and grow as a team.

So, if I'm already eliminated from the conference tournament if only the top 4 get bids, I'm still playing for something by growing as a team and working on getting better, right?
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 08, 2018, 10:34:11 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 08, 2018, 08:48:31 PM
Quote from: lmitzel on March 08, 2018, 10:58:14 AM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 08, 2018, 09:33:30 AM
Something I'd like to see is for conferences to diminish their conference tournaments. It's a great story to have some low seeded team get hot and make their way in but it diminishes the value of the regular season. If you know your conference is a one bid league then why bother playing the regular season if all that matters is a few games in February?
I'd be all for the UAA model of no tournament but if you had to have one, do something like:
a) 2 vs 5 and 3 vs 4 then the winner of that pod plays the 1 in the final
b) 1 vs 4 and 2 vs 3 and if the winner is someone other than the 1 they have to play the 1 seed

This topic came up in the CCIW board a couple months ago when the conference announced it was expanding its conference tournament from four to six. I'm actually a fan of the expansion. With it for next year I think the number came out to roughly 62 percent of teams nationwide play in their conference's tournament (factoring in that the UAA doesn't have one).

I can see the argument that it diminishes the regular season (which is why I'm glad that most conferences don't just invite everyone to the postseason tournament) but you're arguably adding more value to the regular season in that more games will matter in the grand scheme of things.

Yeah, the conference tournaments can boost team's Pool C chances if they lose, or increase the likelihood of hosting a weekend or two in the NCAA's, but those extra 1-3 games don't count any more than a Tip Off Tournament game in November or a first matchup between rivals in January.

This is my take. It's really not much fun to play games when you're eliminated. If everyone's invited to the conference tournament then everybody has something to play for in every single game. Even if it's not for seeding, it's to get better and to keep working to grow as a team.

I like the idea that a team's season doesn't have to end until they lose a tournament game of some sort. If I was the Sports Czar, I'd stipulate that conferences only get an AQ if they award it to their tournament champion with every conference member receiving a invite.

Undecided if I agree or disagree.  Unless some provision is made to benefit the top teams in the regular season, it seems to me this makes the entire regular season just a 'preseason', and the entire 'season' is 3 (or however many) games in February.

I'd probably totally disagree is if were not for the 2010 baseball season!  IWU barely made it into the conference playoffs, won them, won the regional, and won the national title.  On the other hand, they DID have to finish fourth (of eight) in the conference to have that opportunity.  If a team finishes in the bottom of their conference, do they really deserve a chance to get hot (or lucky) for a short stretch, negating everything that has happened during the season?

You're a stats guy.  Do you really want a small sample to potentially outweigh a much larger sample? ::)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 08, 2018, 10:55:11 PM
We had Berry and Hendrix (3-11 records in the SAA).  That is real Cinderella.  Let's give Centre the regular season trophy!  They earned it, but the underclassmen will know what it takes to move to the next level and the seniors will go thru life with a valuable life lesson.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 08, 2018, 11:01:02 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 08, 2018, 10:34:11 PM
Undecided if I agree or disagree.  Unless some provision is made to benefit the top teams in the regular season, it seems to me this makes the entire regular season just a 'preseason', and the entire 'season' is 3 (or however many) games in February.

The conference championship is a worthy goal on its own, no? There are over 400 teams in Division III. Only one will win the national championship.

Sure, give a bye or a double bye, whatever. I just like the idea of a Berry getting to play for that AQ.

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 08, 2018, 10:34:11 PM
You're a stats guy.  Do you really want a small sample to potentially outweigh a much larger sample? ::)

The national tournament (and conference tournaments, for that matter) have never been about determining the best teams. They're about crowning a champion. In this case I like small sample size. Small sample size means fun things can happen!
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 08, 2018, 11:22:48 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 08, 2018, 11:01:02 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 08, 2018, 10:34:11 PM
Undecided if I agree or disagree.  Unless some provision is made to benefit the top teams in the regular season, it seems to me this makes the entire regular season just a 'preseason', and the entire 'season' is 3 (or however many) games in February.

The conference championship is a worthy goal on its own, no? There are over 400 teams in Division III. Only one will win the national championship.

Sure, give a bye or a double bye, whatever. I just like the idea of a Berry getting to play for that AQ.

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 08, 2018, 10:34:11 PM
You're a stats guy.  Do you really want a small sample to potentially outweigh a much larger sample? ::)

The national tournament (and conference tournaments, for that matter) have never been about determining the best teams. They're about crowning a champion. In this case I like small sample size. Small sample size means fun things can happen!

Again I am undecided!

The national tourneys are large enough that I'm not sure we've ever had one where a 'likely' contender has not been included.  So the national tourneys ARE about determining the 'best' team, if only at that moment.  That does not necessarily mean the 'best' team for the overall season (as I freely admitted about the 2010 baseball tourney, still up on this site).  (And, as i would contend, Va Wes winning in 2006, when it should have been IWU! ;D)  But it does mean not letting a really bad team get on a hot streak and win it all.  THAT would be making the regular season meaningless.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Just Bill on March 09, 2018, 09:47:10 AM
I've always thought the best size for a Division III conference tournament is half the membership (rounded up to make an even number). I think that keeps enough teams in the race and competitive all the way to the end of the season. I don't like putting everyone into the conference tournament at this level, because I think you ultimately hurt the top seeds who might be competing nationally for at-large bids, and there's not nearly as many at-large bids available as in D-I.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 09, 2018, 12:39:29 PM
Quote from: Just Bill on March 09, 2018, 09:47:10 AM
I've always thought the best size for a Division III conference tournament is half the membership (rounded up to make an even number). I think that keeps enough teams in the race and competitive all the way to the end of the season. I don't like putting everyone into the conference tournament at this level, because I think you ultimately hurt the top seeds who might be competing nationally for at-large bids, and there's not nearly as many at-large bids available as in D-I.

I think I would be in favor of limiting the criteria to the 25 game regular season schedule. Conference tournaments can be for the AQ. Your regular season is to establish your Pool C bona fides.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 09, 2018, 01:37:50 PM
Based on the poll, looks like everyone is pretty confident that Augustana will advance. The other 42 votes are spread evenly, well exactly, amongst the other 3 pods not going the hosts' way. 14 votes apiece.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 09, 2018, 02:15:16 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 09, 2018, 01:37:50 PM
Based on the poll, looks like everyone is pretty confident that Augustana will advance. The other 42 votes are spread evenly, well exactly, amongst the other 3 pods not going the hosts' way. 14 votes apiece.

I'm not sure that necessarily reflects strength, just that Augie seems to be the only host who is most likely to be seen as the best team in their sectional.  You can sure make a case for any of the other hosts, but it won't be as strong as Augustana's.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: WUPHF on March 09, 2018, 02:40:02 PM
While we are talking about changes, I do think they should start the tournament play around 2:00 or 3:00 ET to stagger the action, but I am not going to hold my breath on that one.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: AndOne on March 09, 2018, 02:53:24 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 09, 2018, 12:39:29 PM
Quote from: Just Bill on March 09, 2018, 09:47:10 AM
I've always thought the best size for a Division III conference tournament is half the membership (rounded up to make an even number). I think that keeps enough teams in the race and competitive all the way to the end of the season. I don't like putting everyone into the conference tournament at this level, because I think you ultimately hurt the top seeds who might be competing nationally for at-large bids, and there's not nearly as many at-large bids available as in D-I.

I think I would be in favor of limiting the criteria to the 25 game regular season schedule. Conference tournaments can be for the AQ. Your regular season is to establish your Pool C bona fides.

Not sure I agree or disagree with the proposition that a conference tournament should include half the teams, 2/3s, all of them, or any other number. However, if all teams were included, we wouldn't have to listen to any team argue that they deserved a bid to the national tournament when they couldn't even make their own conference tourney.  ::)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 09, 2018, 02:58:58 PM
Quote from: WUPHF on March 09, 2018, 02:40:02 PM
While we are talking about changes, I do think they should start the tournament play around 2:00 or 3:00 ET to stagger the action, but I am not going to hold my breath on that one.

Why?
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 09, 2018, 03:03:52 PM
I wanted to drive down to the Middlebury-MIT and F&M-Ramapo games tonight but they're all sold out! Good job by the students and community, guess I'll just have to watch online like everybody else.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: AndOne on March 09, 2018, 03:20:20 PM
Quote from: WUPHF on March 09, 2018, 02:40:02 PM
While we are talking about changes, I do think they should start the tournament play around 2:00 or 3:00 ET to stagger the action, but I am not going to hold my breath on that one.

Also, beginning play earlier in the day would allow fans of a team that played and lost the 2nd game of a doubleheader and had, lets say, a 3 or 4 hour drive home, to not have to drive late into the night and not get home until 11:00-midnight, or even later if they stopped to eat. This could apply to either a conference or national tourney.
Sure, people could always stay over, but an earlier start would both allow for the possibility of not having to shell out $100 or more for a hotel 🏫, and would help with the issue of safety in not having to be driving late into the night 😴. And, if there is only one game that night (usually Sat), start it at 6:00 instead of 7:30.
Initially, this might seem silly, but think about it. 🤔
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: WUPHF on March 09, 2018, 03:21:20 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 09, 2018, 02:58:58 PM
Quote from: WUPHF on March 09, 2018, 02:40:02 PM
While we are talking about changes, I do think they should start the tournament play around 2:00 or 3:00 ET to stagger the action, but I am not going to hold my breath on that one.

Why?

Why should they start the games around 2:00-3:00?

So I can watch more live action games.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: AllStar on March 09, 2018, 03:30:53 PM
Tonight:
(https://i.imgur.com/ALVOiMC.png)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 09, 2018, 03:39:12 PM
Quote from: WUPHF on March 09, 2018, 03:21:20 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 09, 2018, 02:58:58 PM
Quote from: WUPHF on March 09, 2018, 02:40:02 PM
While we are talking about changes, I do think they should start the tournament play around 2:00 or 3:00 ET to stagger the action, but I am not going to hold my breath on that one.

Why?

Why should they start the games around 2:00-3:00?

So I can watch more live action games.

OK, so you're talking about staggering games, like D1, so you can watch more games, 1:30, 3:30, 5:30 7:30...etc.? Got it.

Quote from: AndOne on March 09, 2018, 03:20:20 PM
Quote from: WUPHF on March 09, 2018, 02:40:02 PM
While we are talking about changes, I do think they should start the tournament play around 2:00 or 3:00 ET to stagger the action, but I am not going to hold my breath on that one.

Also, beginning play earlier in the day would allow fans of a team that played and lost the 2nd game of a doubleheader and had, lets say, a 3 or 4 hour drive home, to not have to drive late into the night and not get home until 11:00-midnight, or even later if they stopped to eat. This could apply to either a conference or national tourney.
Sure, people could always stay over, but an earlier start would both allow for the possibility of not having to shell out $100 or more for a hotel 🏫, and would help with the issue of safety in not having to be driving late into the night 😴. And, if there is only one game that night (usually Sat), start it at 6:00 instead of 7:30.
Initially, this might seem silly, but think about it. 🤔


I get that. In fact, I'm disappointed that the WIAC went back to 7:00 games on Saturdays. I liver 2 hours away, having a 3:30 or even 5:30 game would allow me to make a run to Point and get back home at a decent hour. I can't get home at 11:00 or later if I work the following day.

The opposite may apply as well, those who have teams in the 1st game. If there's a 2:30 game. Some may not want (or be able to) get up at leave the house by 8 am, drive 4 hours and also get breakfast/lunch and have time to settle down in your seat for the early game. They may get a hotel Friday night to avoid the early leave time.

I do enjoy the early start time for the Final in Salem because I have been able to enjoy some of the after-game festivities, leave soon after and get 5 hours of driving in before finding a hotel, thus making my Sunday drive a little more manageable.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: irapthor on March 09, 2018, 04:59:52 PM
SWEET 16/SECTIONAL SEMIFINAL PREDICTIONS

Ramapo def. F&M
Middlebury def. MIT
Emory def. UW-Oshkosh
John Carroll def. Augustana

Whitman def. UW-Stevens Point
Nebraska Wesleyan def. UW-Platteville
Plattsburgh State def. Swarthmore
Hamilton def. Springfield



Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: AndOne on March 09, 2018, 05:33:03 PM
Quote from: irapthor on March 09, 2018, 04:59:52 PM
SWEET 16/SECTIONAL SEMIFINAL PREDICTIONS

Ramapo def. F&M
Middlebury def. MIT
Emory def. UW-Oshkosh
John Carroll def. Augustana

Whitman def. UW-Stevens Point
Nebraska Wesleyan def. UW-Platteville
Plattsburgh State def. Swarthmore
Hamilton def. Springfield

Irapthor,

Kudos for your willingness to go public with your picks. Mine are in bold.
Hope all the games are close/interesting/fun to watch. 🏀  🙂
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Smitty Oom on March 09, 2018, 05:34:13 PM
Here are mine...

SWEET 16 PREDICTIONS

Ramapo def. F&M
Middlebury def. MIT
UW-Oshkosh def. Emory
Augustana def. JCU

Whitman def. UW-Stevens Point
Nebraska Wesleyan def. UW-Platteville
Swarthmore def. Plattsburgh
Hamilton def. Springfield

Nothing against the WIAC, but I would love an Elite 8 game of Whitman vs. NWU tomorrow, kind of rooting for that one.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: irapthor on March 09, 2018, 05:34:39 PM
Quote from: AndOne on March 09, 2018, 05:33:03 PM
Quote from: irapthor on March 09, 2018, 04:59:52 PM
SWEET 16/SECTIONAL SEMIFINAL PREDICTIONS

Ramapo def. F&M
Middlebury def. MIT
Emory def. UW-Oshkosh
John Carroll def. Augustana

Whitman def. UW-Stevens Point
Nebraska Wesleyan def. UW-Platteville
Plattsburgh State def. Swarthmore
Hamilton def. Springfield

Irapthor,

Kudos for your willingness to go public with your picks. Mine are in bold.
Hope all the games are close/interesting/fun to watch. 🏀  🙂

LOL, we agree on half of them :)

I also go public from time to time on my Top 25 ballot...
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: irapthor on March 09, 2018, 05:36:35 PM
Also, don't sleep on Plattsburgh....saw them in person and they are REALLY GOOD....Patron is a  special player...and a good drink
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2018, 05:53:15 PM
I'm calling it to be:

Ramapo over F&M
Middlebury over MIT
UW-Oshkosh over Emory
Augustana over JCU

Whitman over UW-Stevens Point
Nebraska Wesleyan over UW-Platteville
Plattsburgh State over Swarthmore
Hamilton over Springfield
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2018, 07:08:42 PM
Both early games are going right down to the wire.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2018, 07:10:05 PM
MIT squeezes out a 79-76 win over Middlebury.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 09, 2018, 07:14:23 PM
Springfield ties ONIONS to their belt, as was the style at the time...three-pointer at the buzzer to force OT after Hamilton missed two FTs with 3.6 seconds left that would have sealed it!
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2018, 07:14:56 PM
Andy McNulty of Springfield hit a 25-foot buzzer-beater to send the Pride into overtime against Hamilton at 81-81.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2018, 07:16:31 PM
At the half in Cheeseland, Whitman leads UWSP, 30-19, while in the Quad Cities it's UW-Oshkosh 40, Emory 29 at the half.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: WUPHF on March 09, 2018, 07:28:14 PM
March Madness!
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2018, 07:28:33 PM
Exit the NESCAC, as for the second time tonight New England's premier conference has a rep lose to a NEWMAC team. Springfield fends off Hamilton in OT, 92-90.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 09, 2018, 07:34:40 PM
There's always that discussion about when you're up 3 do you foul or not. With less than 4 seconds left in regulation I was thinking they should if he missed the FT because a second or two would run off and they couldn't tie it at the line. Sure enough he missed, they didn't foul, and Springfield hit the 3 to tie.

Exciting down to the wire finishes so far.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: WUPHF on March 09, 2018, 07:46:08 PM
Oshkosh is absolutely on fire.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Smitty Oom on March 09, 2018, 07:49:36 PM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 09, 2018, 07:34:40 PM
There's always that discussion about when you're up 3 do you foul or not. With less than 4 seconds left in regulation I was thinking they should if he missed the FT because a second or two would run off and they couldn't tie it at the line. Sure enough he missed, they didn't foul, and Springfield hit the 3 to tie.

Exciting down to the wire finishes so far.

DePauw's Coach Fenlon would have fouled. He has laid it in out and probability states you should foul. Here is the paper he published:

https://www.depauw.edu/news-media/latest-news/details/25895/ (https://www.depauw.edu/news-media/latest-news/details/25895/)

http://c510383.r83.cf2.rackcdn.com/ath/mbasket/images/up3.pdf
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2018, 08:11:50 PM
UW-Oshkosh dispatches Emory with relative ease, 93-72, led by Charlie Noone, who scored 32 points on 10-15 shooting from the field, including 8-12 from downtown.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2018, 08:17:19 PM
Whitman takes down UWSP, 65-55.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2018, 08:27:31 PM
Ramapo leads F&M at the half, 35-32.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2018, 08:42:24 PM
Swarthmore leads Plattsburgh State at the half, 41-27. The Garnet look very impressive, in spite of the fact that All-American guard Cam Wiley sat out much of the half with two fouls and has only scored two points for the hosts.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2018, 09:31:12 PM
Ramapo survives a late F&M comeback attempt and advances to the quarterfinals with a 72-62 win.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2018, 09:33:27 PM
John Carroll leads Augie at the half, 39-38, while, a hundred miles north on the other side of the Cheddar Curtain, Nebraska Wesleyan is on top of UW-Platteville, 45-39, at intermission.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2018, 09:46:25 PM
Swarthmore crushed Plattsburgh State, 93-63. The Garnet shot 60% from the field while holding the Cardinals to a mere 35%, as the hosts led wire-to-wire and advance to face Springfield in the quarterfinals.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 09, 2018, 10:31:13 PM
Everyone gets their dream matchup. Whitman v Neb Wes.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2018, 10:31:32 PM
Nate Schimonitz banked in a runner with three seconds left to give Nebraska Wesleyan a 79-78 nailbiter win, as UW-Platteville becomes the first home team to lose tonight.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: toad22 on March 09, 2018, 10:33:57 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2018, 10:31:32 PM
Nate Schimonitz banked in a runner with three seconds left to give Nebraska Wesleyan a 79-78 nailbiter win, as UW-Platteville becomes the first home team to lose tonight.

That was one great finish. I'm happy for coach Dale Wellman!
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2018, 10:41:20 PM
Augustana managed to grind out a tough 86-78 win over John Carroll.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: dunkin3117 on March 09, 2018, 10:41:41 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2018, 10:31:32 PM
Nate Schimonitz banked in a runner with three seconds left to give Nebraska Wesleyan a 79-78 nailbiter win, as UW-Platteville becomes the first home team to lose tonight.

Maybe the IIAC will finally start to gain the national respect it deserves. This is a league that should have placed more than 1 team in the field 2 years in a row. Last year it was the 6 seed Wartburg in the sweet 16, and this year NWU (whose roster is virtually identical to last years) in Elite 8 this year. One day IIAC, one day.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 09, 2018, 10:43:46 PM

The over/under for the total score in Whitman-NWU is 210.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2018, 10:45:06 PM
It's going to take a Final Four appearance for the IIAC to get any props, dunkin. The IIAC is a charter member conference of D3, yet it has never had a team reach the final weekend of the season in the 44 previous D3 tourneys.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2018, 10:50:22 PM
Congratulations to Augustana, by the way, for becoming only the second program in D3 tourney history to reach the Elite Eight four or more years in a row. Potsdam State reached the Elite Eight a record five straight seasons from 1979 thru 1983.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: dunkin3117 on March 09, 2018, 10:51:53 PM
A charter member? Massey has ranked the IIAC as a top 4 conference the last 2 years. Takes all human bias out of the equation. Currently 2nd best league in the country behind the WIAC.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2018, 10:53:05 PM
Quote from: irapthor on March 09, 2018, 05:36:35 PM
Also, don't sleep on Plattsburgh....saw them in person and they are REALLY GOOD....Patron is a  special player...and a good drink

(https://media.giphy.com/media/26tP3KaWsDnT47VMk/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2018, 10:53:59 PM
Quote from: dunkin3117 on March 09, 2018, 10:51:53 PM
A charter member? Massey has ranked the IIAC as a top 4 conference the last 2 years. Takes all human bias out of the equation. Currently 2nd best league in the country behind the WIAC.

Wait... a computer knows how to rank and should be trusted? I think we know how this has worked out in the past... to the end that Minor League football got rid of it a few years back.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2018, 10:55:37 PM
Computer rankings are not relevant to the issue of respect. What's relevant is what happens on the court in March.

You wanna be a power league? Make it to Salem. (Or Buffalo, NY, or Springfield, OH, or Grand Rapids, MI, or Reading, PA before that, or Fort Wayne, IN starting next season.) That's where respect is earned.

The IIAC hasn't earned it yet.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Riley056 on March 09, 2018, 10:56:58 PM
What is the NCAA rule on waiting period when changing from NAIA to D3?

Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2018, 10:57:59 PM
Quote from: Riley056 on March 09, 2018, 10:56:58 PM
What is the NCAA rule on waiting period when changing from NAIA to D3?

Same process for anyone coming into D3 no matter where they are coming from...
- Exploratory year
- Four year process following before being fully eligible
- Sometimes can fast-track one of those early years, but all that common
- Sometimes have to repeat one of the years if didn't get things done correctly
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: WUPHF on March 09, 2018, 10:58:30 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2018, 10:53:59 PM
Wait... a computer knows how to rank and should be trusted? I think we know how this has worked out in the past... to the end that Minor League football got rid of it a few years back.

The computer always knows how to rank and should always be trusted...when the computer thinks my team is the best.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 09, 2018, 11:03:23 PM
Quote from: dunkin3117 on March 09, 2018, 10:51:53 PM
A charter member? Massey has ranked the IIAC as a top 4 conference the last 2 years. Takes all human bias out of the equation. Currently 2nd best league in the country behind the WIAC.

This hoary cliche' is totally ludicrous.  Computers do exactly what they are PROGRAMMED (by, you know, humans) to do.  As a considerably more accurate cliche' puts it "Garbage in, garbage out".  The IIAC MIGHT be a (lower) top ten conference (though teens seems more accurate) - #2 is to laugh! :o
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2018, 11:03:38 PM
Quote from: WUPHF on March 09, 2018, 10:58:30 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2018, 10:53:59 PM
Wait... a computer knows how to rank and should be trusted? I think we know how this has worked out in the past... to the end that Minor League football got rid of it a few years back.

The computer always knows how to rank and should always be trusted...when the computer thinks my team is the best.

HAHA Yes... I have heard that sentiment... often. :)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2018, 11:05:23 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2018, 10:53:05 PM
Quote from: irapthor on March 09, 2018, 05:36:35 PM
Also, don't sleep on Plattsburgh....saw them in person and they are REALLY GOOD....Patron is a  special player...and a good drink

(https://media.giphy.com/media/26tP3KaWsDnT47VMk/giphy.gif)

Patron was extremely ordinary tonight: 12 points on 5-14 shooting, with six rebounds. He came in averaging 23.7 and 10.4. Then again, the only Cardinal who showed up at all tonight was Eric Mack (16 points), although Eli Bryant did dish out five assists. But, boy, did Swarthmore look impressive tonight. And it's not as though the Garnet got a huge night out of Cam Wiley, either. They shared the wealth -- five guys in double digits.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Riley056 on March 09, 2018, 11:05:32 PM
Am I wrong questioning players who came to a school because of a scholarship and are still there although change to D3?
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2018, 11:07:41 PM
If you're pointing a finger at Nebraska Wesleyan, you're pointing it in the wrong direction. In spite of the fact that NebWes was in an NAIA league until two years ago, the school held dual membership in NAIA and NCAA-D3 and did not give out athletic scholarships.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 09, 2018, 11:08:08 PM
Quote from: Riley056 on March 09, 2018, 11:05:32 PM
Am I wrong questioning players who came to a school because of a scholarship and are still there although change to D3?

As I understand it, the transition period is long enough that all scholarship players have graduated (or at least left) by the time the school is 'fully' D3.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: AllStar on March 09, 2018, 11:09:07 PM
Congratulations to those that advanced this evening!
(https://i.imgur.com/K8z2jZw.png)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2018, 11:10:45 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 09, 2018, 11:03:23 PM
Quote from: dunkin3117 on March 09, 2018, 10:51:53 PM
A charter member? Massey has ranked the IIAC as a top 4 conference the last 2 years. Takes all human bias out of the equation. Currently 2nd best league in the country behind the WIAC.

This hoary cliche' is totally ludicrous.  Computers do exactly what they are PROGRAMMED (by, you know, humans) to do.  As a considerably more accurate cliche' puts it "Garbage in, garbage out".  The IIAC MIGHT be a (lower) top ten conference (though teens seems more accurate) - #2 is to laugh! :o

Ha - that's one way I didn't think of... and now will stick with me. They are programmed ... perfect.

Yeah, IIAC has certainly risen quite a bit in my mind as a conference, but not the second best in DIII at this time.

Not sure I could rank ten off the top of my head, but we have said for years the top five have been (in no particular order): UAA, WIAC, CCIW, NESCAC, and ODAC. The ODAC isn't there any more, but the other four are still in the conversation, though maybe UAA has slipped because the bottom hasn't been able to produce as much as it had in the past.

Others that are certainly in the top ten conversation now include (no particular order; not mentioning IIAC just as an exercise - more than ten mentioned FYI): UAA, WIAC, CCIW, NESCAC, NCAC, OAC, ODAC, NEWMAC, Commonweatlh, Centennial, NJAC, SUNYAC.

That is tougher than I thought it would be... IIAC certainly could be in that conversation. Centennial and NJAC, while good at the top are not great at the bottom. The Commonwealth is one of the most competitive conferences year in and year out, but doesn't tend to have a top team that competes as well nationally as we expect. SUNYAC has been terrific for years, but I think they have had an off year or two. Top very good, rest this year was an after-thought.

There are probably some other conferences like the NWC that may be coming into that conversation (outside of the top two, it is improving). The Landmark could have been in there in the past, but really went in a weird direction this year. Might be underselling the LEC and MWC as well.

The IIAC I think could be in that top ten conversation this year to be sure. I couldn't put it above the WIAC, CCIW, NESCAC, or the UAA right now. Just isn't as competitive all the way through. IIAC may compare to the NCAC, OAC, and ODAC right now.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Riley056 on March 09, 2018, 11:11:59 PM
Well deserved for NWU regardless. Was curious on how the NCAA handled it. Good policy on their end - can't believe just said that!
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2018, 11:12:12 PM
Quote from: Riley056 on March 09, 2018, 11:05:32 PM
Am I wrong questioning players who came to a school because of a scholarship and are still there although change to D3?

As long as they don't have a scholarship any more, I believe it is perfectly fine.

And not sure where you are referencing... if it is Nebraska Wesleyan, remember they have been a DIII their entire life time(?) and never gave out scholarships in the first place.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2018, 11:12:30 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2018, 11:07:41 PM
If you're pointing a finger at Nebraska Wesleyan, you're pointing it in the wrong direction. In spite of the fact that NebWes was in an NAIA league until two years ago, the school held dual membership in NAIA and NCAA-D3 and did not give out athletic scholarships.

Or that...
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2018, 11:13:52 PM
Quote from: Riley056 on March 09, 2018, 11:11:59 PM
Well deserved for NWU regardless. Was curious on how the NCAA handled it. Good policy on their end - can't believe just said that!

Yeah... NWU has been part of DIII for YEARS. They have had a split role, so none of their players have ever had scholarships. Kind of like Ivy League and Patriot in D1 (though, admittedly, I lost track of the Patriot per scholarships; I know football it went sideways a number of years back).
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Riley056 on March 09, 2018, 11:16:09 PM
How does the split role end up working out?
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2018, 11:19:14 PM
Quote from: Riley056 on March 09, 2018, 11:16:09 PM
How does the split role end up working out?

They played about 1/3 or something of their schedule against DIII and usually got an exemption from the NCAA to remained qualified for at-large bids. However, each May they had to decide for the following academic year what championships they wanted to be eligible for and get that exemption. In the last few years, at least, of their duality, they started to basically forgo the DIII exemptions and not worry about it. Eventually they decided the duality wasn't for them and went all in with DIII. Leaving NAIA completely behind.

I think it was a wise decision. They are in a good conference, they don't have the same financial burden (or at least turned that money towards other things). I think it duality worked for awhile, but not in the last 15 years and they finally decided the smarter course of action for themselves - especially when they saw it was more and more popular for NAIAs to leave for DIII anyway.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2018, 11:21:10 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2018, 11:10:45 PMOthers that are certainly in the top ten conversation now include (no particular order; not mentioning IIAC just as an exercise - more than ten mentioned FYI): UAA, WIAC, CCIW, NESCAC, NCAC, OAC, ODAC, NEWMAC, Commonweatlh, Centennial, NJAC, SUNYAC.

SUNYAC? The SUNYAC hasn't been to the Elite Eight since Brockport got there eleven years ago, and Ronald Reagan was still president the last time that a SUNYAC team made the Final Four. When I think of the SUNYAC I think of March cannon fodder for the NESCAC and Rochester. (Sorry, magicman. :-\ As someone born and bred in upstate New York I wish it wasn't so, but it is.)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Riley056 on March 09, 2018, 11:22:03 PM
Thanks Dave! Always on top of it as usual!

Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: BobbyO on March 09, 2018, 11:23:06 PM
Interesting thing for Augustana next game.  If Augie wins they beat every team this season that they lost to.  Oshkosh beat them early at Oshkosh in double overtime.  This game may be the game that makes a National Champ.  Two years ago St. Thomas beat Augie in the elite eight and then went on to win it all.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2018, 11:24:11 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2018, 11:21:10 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2018, 11:10:45 PMOthers that are certainly in the top ten conversation now include (no particular order; not mentioning IIAC just as an exercise - more than ten mentioned FYI): UAA, WIAC, CCIW, NESCAC, NCAC, OAC, ODAC, NEWMAC, Commonweatlh, Centennial, NJAC, SUNYAC.

SUNYAC? The SUNYAC hasn't been to the Elite Eight since Brockport got there eleven years ago, and Ronald Reagan was still president the last time that a SUNYAC team made the Final Four. When I think of the SUNYAC I think of March cannon fodder for the NESCAC and Rochester. (Sorry, magicman. :-\ As someone born and bred in upstate New York I wish it wasn't so, but it is.)

So back to my comment about the Commonwealth... the SUNYAC has been very competitive from top to bottom most years. They do produce pretty good teams. Plattsburgh didn't look great tonight, but they are a better team than tonight showed. Plattsburgh also stopped one of the best offensive tandems in New England in the first round.

But again, I think the SUNYAC has for years had a very good conference from top to bottom. The top isn't the only metric I use (as I have shown). Sometimes just getting through conference play because of how good the bottom is is something to be considered. The SUNYAC hasn't been as strong the last few years and that's why I think it may not belong in the top ten now, but I feel it has been part of the conversation.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2018, 11:25:38 PM
Quote from: BobbyO on March 09, 2018, 11:23:06 PM
Interesting thing for Augustana next game.  If Augie wins they beat every team this season that they lost to.  Oshkosh beat them early at Oshkosh in double overtime.  This game may be the game that makes a National Champ.  Two years ago St. Thomas beat Augie in the elite eight and then went on to win it all.

A few teams have beaten Augie, in Rock Island especially, and gone on to titles I think (WashU?)... it was one of those things we talked about... when will Augie get out of Rock Island and be that team that wins it all. They finally did it a few years ago and now seem to be the most consistent in the NCAA tournament (last year was nuts).

Hats off to be sure... but tomorrow night should be epic.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 09, 2018, 11:27:05 PM
It occurred to me this evening that the Elite Eight contains only FIVE ranked teams (from the last pre-tourney poll): #1, 9,14,19,24.  Did the pollsters have an off-week?  Have there been that many legitimate upsets?  Has parity gone stark-raving mad in D3?  I lean most heavily on the last option, but see some of each at work.  Comments?
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Smitty Oom on March 09, 2018, 11:28:54 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2018, 11:21:10 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2018, 11:10:45 PMOthers that are certainly in the top ten conversation now include (no particular order; not mentioning IIAC just as an exercise - more than ten mentioned FYI): UAA, WIAC, CCIW, NESCAC, NCAC, OAC, ODAC, NEWMAC, Commonweatlh, Centennial, NJAC, SUNYAC.

SUNYAC? The SUNYAC hasn't been to the Elite Eight since Brockport got there eleven years ago, and Ronald Reagan was still president the last time that a SUNYAC team made the Final Four. When I think of the SUNYAC I think of March cannon fodder for the NESCAC and Rochester. (Sorry, magicman. :-\ As someone born and bred in upstate New York I wish it wasn't so, but it is.)

I am not the historian of D3 hoops quite like Greg (yet), but isn't the NJAC previously known for early bounces in the NCAA tourney as well?

I am extremely bias, but St. Thomas can probably bring the MIAC in the top 10 by themselves, not to mention Gustavus had a great run in most of the 2000s
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2018, 11:29:31 PM
Nebraska Wesleyan has a long and storied history as a D3 program. The Prairie Wolves (né the Plainsmen) have been to the Final Four on four previous occasions, finishing second once and third three times. They currently sport a 27-16 (.628) all-time record in the D3 tourney as of tonight's win, which is not too shabby.

Quote from: BobbyO on March 09, 2018, 11:23:06 PM
Interesting thing for Augustana next game.  If Augie wins they beat every team this season that they lost to.  Oshkosh beat them early at Oshkosh in double overtime.  This game may be the game that makes a National Champ.  Two years ago St. Thomas beat Augie in the elite eight and then went on to win it all.

I know that you're an Augie fan, but, as far as this "may be the game that makes a national champ" business is concerned, I wouldn't go there if I were you. The Whitman vs. Nebraska Wesleyan winner is going to have a lot to say about who cuts down the net in Salem -- and the most impressive performance I saw tonight was by Swarthmore.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2018, 11:32:17 PM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on March 09, 2018, 11:28:54 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2018, 11:21:10 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2018, 11:10:45 PMOthers that are certainly in the top ten conversation now include (no particular order; not mentioning IIAC just as an exercise - more than ten mentioned FYI): UAA, WIAC, CCIW, NESCAC, NCAC, OAC, ODAC, NEWMAC, Commonweatlh, Centennial, NJAC, SUNYAC.

SUNYAC? The SUNYAC hasn't been to the Elite Eight since Brockport got there eleven years ago, and Ronald Reagan was still president the last time that a SUNYAC team made the Final Four. When I think of the SUNYAC I think of March cannon fodder for the NESCAC and Rochester. (Sorry, magicman. :-\ As someone born and bred in upstate New York I wish it wasn't so, but it is.)

I am not the historian of D3 hoops quite like Greg (yet), but isn't the NJAC previously known for early bounces in the NCAA tourney as well?

I am extremely bias, but St. Thomas can probably bring the MIAC in the top 10 by themselves, not to mention Gustavus had a great run in most of the 2000s

Totally forgot the MIAC - late night for my brain I guess. They should absolutely be in that conversation. Brain fart on my end, I guess. That conference has gotten darn good and easily would punt the NJAC, SUNYAC, Centennial, and others out of the conversation.

My thinking in the NJAC is the same as the SUNYAC... it isn't necessarily about the NCAA tournament. Yes. Struggled to get out of the first weekend (thankfully, Ramapo cleared it; may prove that when they get out NJAC teams are dangerous). However, they are also a damn competitive conference. There are no easy nights and there are no undefeated seasons usually.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: AndOne on March 09, 2018, 11:33:07 PM
Quote from: Riley056 on March 09, 2018, 11:16:09 PM
How does the split role end up working out?

For many years Nebraska Wesleyan was a member of an NAIA conference in which every single school in the conference other than NWU gave athletic scholarships. While they regularly competed with scholarship schools while holding dual NAIA/NCAA membership, they always adhered to the NCAA philosophy regarding athletic scholarships, and never awarded them. Their thinking on this subject was one of the reasons they ultimately decided to rescind their NAIA affiliation, and attach solely to the NCAA.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2018, 11:33:15 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2018, 11:29:31 PM
Nebraska Wesleyan has a long and storied history as a D3 program. The Prairie Wolves (né the Plainsmen) have been to the Final Four on four previous occasions, finishing second once and third three times. They currently sport a 27-16 (.628) all-time record in the D3 tourney as of tonight's win, which is not too shabby.

Quote from: BobbyO on March 09, 2018, 11:23:06 PM
Interesting thing for Augustana next game.  If Augie wins they beat every team this season that they lost to.  Oshkosh beat them early at Oshkosh in double overtime.  This game may be the game that makes a National Champ.  Two years ago St. Thomas beat Augie in the elite eight and then went on to win it all.

I know that you're an Augie fan, but, as far as this "may be the game that makes a national champ" business is concerned, I wouldn't go there if I were you. The Whitman vs. Nebraska Wesleyan winner is going to have a lot to say about who cuts down the net in Salem -- and the most impressive performance I saw tonight was by Swarthmore.

Great point, Sager. I think the Final Four is going to be fantastic after what I saw tonight. And I have honestly felt nothing could top last year's event.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2018, 11:34:05 PM
Quote from: AndOne on March 09, 2018, 11:33:07 PM
Quote from: Riley056 on March 09, 2018, 11:16:09 PM
How does the split role end up working out?

For many years Nebraska Wesleyan was a member of an NAIA conference in which every single school in the conference other than NWU gave athletic scholarships. While they regularly competed with scholarship schools while holding dual NAIA/NCAA membership, they always adhered to the NCAA philosophy regarding athletic scholarships, and never awarded them. Their thinking on this subject was one of the reasons they ultimately decided to rescind their NAIA affiliation, and attach solely to the NCAA.

Well to be honest, they HAD to adhere to the NCAA DIII philosophy and rules or they wouldn't have been allowed to retain membership and thus duality.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2018, 11:35:02 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2018, 11:24:11 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2018, 11:21:10 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2018, 11:10:45 PMOthers that are certainly in the top ten conversation now include (no particular order; not mentioning IIAC just as an exercise - more than ten mentioned FYI): UAA, WIAC, CCIW, NESCAC, NCAC, OAC, ODAC, NEWMAC, Commonweatlh, Centennial, NJAC, SUNYAC.

SUNYAC? The SUNYAC hasn't been to the Elite Eight since Brockport got there eleven years ago, and Ronald Reagan was still president the last time that a SUNYAC team made the Final Four. When I think of the SUNYAC I think of March cannon fodder for the NESCAC and Rochester. (Sorry, magicman. :-\ As someone born and bred in upstate New York I wish it wasn't so, but it is.)

So back to my comment about the Commonwealth... the SUNYAC has been very competitive from top to bottom most years. They do produce pretty good teams. Plattsburgh didn't look great tonight, but they are a better team than tonight showed. Plattsburgh also stopped one of the best offensive tandems in New England in the first round.

But again, I think the SUNYAC has for years had a very good conference from top to bottom. The top isn't the only metric I use (as I have shown). Sometimes just getting through conference play because of how good the bottom is is something to be considered. The SUNYAC hasn't been as strong the last few years and that's why I think it may not belong in the top ten now, but I feel it has been part of the conversation.

I agree with you to a certain degree, inasmuch as conferences are best measured top to bottom when sorted out as an aggregate whole within D3. That's always been my knock on the MIAA and the NCAC -- they were too top-heavy over long stretches of time, too plagued by lightweight, never-competitive programs at the bottom. The SUNYAC has great balance; it's much like the OAC in that regard, although I think that the OAC's pedigree is better.

But if you're going to be in the upper echelon -- i.e., the WIAC, CCIW, NESCAC, and UAA -- you've got to produce in March. And the SUNYAC decidedly doesn't produce in March.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2018, 11:36:07 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 09, 2018, 11:27:05 PM
It occurred to me this evening that the Elite Eight contains only FIVE ranked teams (from the last pre-tourney poll): #1, 9,14,19,24.  Did the pollsters have an off-week?  Have there been that many legitimate upsets?  Has parity gone stark-raving mad in D3?  I lean most heavily on the last option, but see some of each at work.  Comments?

It's that last part. It is why I have 40-50 schools I'm considering for my ballot each week.

I have four of the last eight on my ballot. The only ones I don't are Oshkosh, Ramapo, Springfield, and MIT... and all of them I considered, though MIT was a short thought considering they didn't have Jomard back.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: 4samuy on March 09, 2018, 11:36:46 PM
Last year Augie made it to the final game without playing a home game in the tournament.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2018, 11:37:40 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2018, 11:35:02 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2018, 11:24:11 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2018, 11:21:10 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2018, 11:10:45 PMOthers that are certainly in the top ten conversation now include (no particular order; not mentioning IIAC just as an exercise - more than ten mentioned FYI): UAA, WIAC, CCIW, NESCAC, NCAC, OAC, ODAC, NEWMAC, Commonweatlh, Centennial, NJAC, SUNYAC.

SUNYAC? The SUNYAC hasn't been to the Elite Eight since Brockport got there eleven years ago, and Ronald Reagan was still president the last time that a SUNYAC team made the Final Four. When I think of the SUNYAC I think of March cannon fodder for the NESCAC and Rochester. (Sorry, magicman. :-\ As someone born and bred in upstate New York I wish it wasn't so, but it is.)

So back to my comment about the Commonwealth... the SUNYAC has been very competitive from top to bottom most years. They do produce pretty good teams. Plattsburgh didn't look great tonight, but they are a better team than tonight showed. Plattsburgh also stopped one of the best offensive tandems in New England in the first round.

But again, I think the SUNYAC has for years had a very good conference from top to bottom. The top isn't the only metric I use (as I have shown). Sometimes just getting through conference play because of how good the bottom is is something to be considered. The SUNYAC hasn't been as strong the last few years and that's why I think it may not belong in the top ten now, but I feel it has been part of the conversation.

I agree with you to a certain degree, inasmuch as conferences are best measured top to bottom when sorted out as an aggregate whole within D3. That's always been my knock on the MIAA and the NCAC -- they were too top-heavy over long stretches of time, too plagued by lightweight, never-competitive programs at the bottom. The SUNYAC has great balance; it's much like the OAC in that regard, although I think that the OAC's pedigree is better.

But if you're going to be in the upper echelon -- i.e., the WIAC, CCIW, NESCAC, and UAA -- you've got to produce in March. And the SUNYAC decidedly doesn't produce in March.

Reread my stuff... I talk about the top five - that is the upper echelon... and my thoughts on Top 5. The convo started on IIAC being ranked by the computers number two. My point was to say, no... they aren't in the upper echelon, but they are certainly in the convo for top ten.

I don't disagree with you... and I never said the SUNYAC was in my top five nor the upper echelon.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2018, 11:38:39 PM
Quote from: 4samuy on March 09, 2018, 11:36:46 PM
Last year Augie made it to the final game without playing a home game in the tournament.

Last year was ridiculous also considering Augustana lost four of their last five and five of their last nine games prior to the NCAA tournament.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2018, 11:39:21 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2018, 11:32:17 PM
My thinking in the NJAC is the same as the SUNYAC... it isn't necessarily about the NCAA tournament. Yes. Struggled to get out of the first weekend (thankfully, Ramapo cleared it; may prove that when they get out NJAC teams are dangerous). However, they are also a damn competitive conference. There are no easy nights and there are no undefeated seasons usually.

Once upon a time, though, the NJAC was D3's Beast of the East. Ramapo, Rowan, William Paterson, Stockton ... even TCNJ in '89 ... there's a lot of Final Four trophies in New Jersey trophy cases.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2018, 11:42:18 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2018, 11:37:40 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2018, 11:35:02 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2018, 11:24:11 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2018, 11:21:10 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2018, 11:10:45 PMOthers that are certainly in the top ten conversation now include (no particular order; not mentioning IIAC just as an exercise - more than ten mentioned FYI): UAA, WIAC, CCIW, NESCAC, NCAC, OAC, ODAC, NEWMAC, Commonweatlh, Centennial, NJAC, SUNYAC.

SUNYAC? The SUNYAC hasn't been to the Elite Eight since Brockport got there eleven years ago, and Ronald Reagan was still president the last time that a SUNYAC team made the Final Four. When I think of the SUNYAC I think of March cannon fodder for the NESCAC and Rochester. (Sorry, magicman. :-\ As someone born and bred in upstate New York I wish it wasn't so, but it is.)

So back to my comment about the Commonwealth... the SUNYAC has been very competitive from top to bottom most years. They do produce pretty good teams. Plattsburgh didn't look great tonight, but they are a better team than tonight showed. Plattsburgh also stopped one of the best offensive tandems in New England in the first round.

But again, I think the SUNYAC has for years had a very good conference from top to bottom. The top isn't the only metric I use (as I have shown). Sometimes just getting through conference play because of how good the bottom is is something to be considered. The SUNYAC hasn't been as strong the last few years and that's why I think it may not belong in the top ten now, but I feel it has been part of the conversation.

I agree with you to a certain degree, inasmuch as conferences are best measured top to bottom when sorted out as an aggregate whole within D3. That's always been my knock on the MIAA and the NCAC -- they were too top-heavy over long stretches of time, too plagued by lightweight, never-competitive programs at the bottom. The SUNYAC has great balance; it's much like the OAC in that regard, although I think that the OAC's pedigree is better.

But if you're going to be in the upper echelon -- i.e., the WIAC, CCIW, NESCAC, and UAA -- you've got to produce in March. And the SUNYAC decidedly doesn't produce in March.

Reread my stuff... I talk about the top five - that is the upper echelon... and my thoughts on Top 5. The convo started on IIAC being ranked by the computers number two. My point was to say, no... they aren't in the upper echelon, but they are certainly in the convo for top ten.

I don't disagree with you... and I never said the SUNYAC was in my top five nor the upper echelon.

My point is that the SUNYAC shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as the WIAC, CCIW, NESCAC, and UAA. If you're going to extend it down to a top ten and lump those leagues in with the likes of the SUNYAC, you're really distorting the picture. Those leagues are in a class by themselves. (Not too long ago I would've put the ODAC there, too, but the ODAC seems to have slumped over the past few years.)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2018, 11:42:43 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2018, 11:39:21 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2018, 11:32:17 PM
My thinking in the NJAC is the same as the SUNYAC... it isn't necessarily about the NCAA tournament. Yes. Struggled to get out of the first weekend (thankfully, Ramapo cleared it; may prove that when they get out NJAC teams are dangerous). However, they are also a damn competitive conference. There are no easy nights and there are no undefeated seasons usually.

Once upon a time, though, the NJAC was D3's Beast of the East. Ramapo, Rowan, William Paterson, Stockton ... even TCNJ in '89 ... there's a lot of Final Four trophies in New Jersey trophy cases.

You are very, very right. It was a beast. Catholic beat Willy P in '01 for the title. Stockton has been back to the final four twice since then... but sadly, they have struggled outside of that when it comes to the postseason. I think we may see that turning around. There are some young and very good (smart) coaches in that league now. TCNJ's turnaround is part of that. The league may be heading back to some of its glory.

I know the NJAC has complained that DII has been killing their recruiting in the last decade plus. I understand their angst, but I wonder, too, if the old-school and long-time coaches just haven't figured out how to adjust. I think the new ones who are having success have figured out how to adjust and even McBreen may have found a way to adjust - he no longer has a revolving door midway through the season... it is uncanny.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2018, 11:44:29 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2018, 11:42:18 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2018, 11:37:40 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2018, 11:35:02 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2018, 11:24:11 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2018, 11:21:10 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2018, 11:10:45 PMOthers that are certainly in the top ten conversation now include (no particular order; not mentioning IIAC just as an exercise - more than ten mentioned FYI): UAA, WIAC, CCIW, NESCAC, NCAC, OAC, ODAC, NEWMAC, Commonweatlh, Centennial, NJAC, SUNYAC.

SUNYAC? The SUNYAC hasn't been to the Elite Eight since Brockport got there eleven years ago, and Ronald Reagan was still president the last time that a SUNYAC team made the Final Four. When I think of the SUNYAC I think of March cannon fodder for the NESCAC and Rochester. (Sorry, magicman. :-\ As someone born and bred in upstate New York I wish it wasn't so, but it is.)

So back to my comment about the Commonwealth... the SUNYAC has been very competitive from top to bottom most years. They do produce pretty good teams. Plattsburgh didn't look great tonight, but they are a better team than tonight showed. Plattsburgh also stopped one of the best offensive tandems in New England in the first round.

But again, I think the SUNYAC has for years had a very good conference from top to bottom. The top isn't the only metric I use (as I have shown). Sometimes just getting through conference play because of how good the bottom is is something to be considered. The SUNYAC hasn't been as strong the last few years and that's why I think it may not belong in the top ten now, but I feel it has been part of the conversation.

I agree with you to a certain degree, inasmuch as conferences are best measured top to bottom when sorted out as an aggregate whole within D3. That's always been my knock on the MIAA and the NCAC -- they were too top-heavy over long stretches of time, too plagued by lightweight, never-competitive programs at the bottom. The SUNYAC has great balance; it's much like the OAC in that regard, although I think that the OAC's pedigree is better.

But if you're going to be in the upper echelon -- i.e., the WIAC, CCIW, NESCAC, and UAA -- you've got to produce in March. And the SUNYAC decidedly doesn't produce in March.

Reread my stuff... I talk about the top five - that is the upper echelon... and my thoughts on Top 5. The convo started on IIAC being ranked by the computers number two. My point was to say, no... they aren't in the upper echelon, but they are certainly in the convo for top ten.

I don't disagree with you... and I never said the SUNYAC was in my top five nor the upper echelon.

My point is that the SUNYAC shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as the WIAC, CCIW, NESCAC, and UAA. If you're going to extend it down to a top ten and lump those leagues in with the likes of the SUNYAC, you're really distorting the picture. Those leagues are in a class by themselves. (Not too long ago I would've put the ODAC there, too, but the ODAC seems to have slumped over the past few years.)

Sager... when you talk about the top ten... you have to mention them all. I started with the Top 5 and mentioned that group... the mentioned the top ten and to not make people think I had forgotten the top group, I mentioned them again. That isn't to say they are even with them in anyway. I am simply saying there are 13-15 conferences that could be argued to be in the top ten. Never did I say they were on the same level as a handful of them, but you can't say... here is my top ten, but we are only going to rank six.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: AndOne on March 09, 2018, 11:45:24 PM
The thing is, Dave, that it would have been easy for NWU to give in and start giving athletic money, especially considering they were kind of on an island with regard to other NCAA schools. So give them a little credit for continuing to adhere to the NCAA philosophy and to work to ultimately solely associate with that organization.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2018, 11:46:38 PM
Quote from: AndOne on March 09, 2018, 11:45:24 PM
The thing is, Dave, that it would have been easy for NWU to give in and start giving athletic money, especially considering they were kind of on an island with regard to other NCAA schools. So give them a little credit for continuing to adhere to the NCAA philosophy and to work to ultimately solely associate with that organization.

I am not saying they shouldn't be applauded with sticking to the DIII model, but the moment they didn't... they wouldn't have been in DIII. I was simply saying, of course they adhered to the principle... they had to if they were serious about their membership.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2018, 11:58:58 PM
All I'm saying, Dave, is that, long-term, it goes like this:

1. WIAC
2. NESCAC
3. CCIW
4. UAA
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
5. another conference
6. another conference
7. another conference
8. another conference
9. another conference
10. another conference

... so using a top ten as your marker doesn't give anyone a true picture of what D3 men's basketball really looks like.

(Numbers two thru four are always up for debate as to their running order from year to year, but I think that we all concede that the WIAC is the king of the hill.)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Smitty Oom on March 10, 2018, 12:01:41 AM
Greg, would you mind posting your top 10 conferences. I am quite curious. I understand you think a linear 1-10 rank doesn't properly explain how much better those 4 conferences are than the rest, but humor me for a post!  ;) ;D
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2018, 12:07:28 AM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on March 10, 2018, 12:01:41 AM
Greg, would you mind posting your top 10 conferences. I am quite curious. I understand you think a linear 1-10 rank doesn't properly explain how much better those 4 conferences are than the rest, but humor me for a post!  ;) ;D

Maybe tomorrow. I'm starting to wind down right now. Too much overstimulation from too many close games tonight. ;)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2018, 12:09:28 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2018, 11:46:38 PM
Quote from: AndOne on March 09, 2018, 11:45:24 PM
The thing is, Dave, that it would have been easy for NWU to give in and start giving athletic money, especially considering they were kind of on an island with regard to other NCAA schools. So give them a little credit for continuing to adhere to the NCAA philosophy and to work to ultimately solely associate with that organization.

I am not saying they shouldn't be applauded with sticking to the DIII model, but the moment they didn't... they wouldn't have been in DIII. I was simply saying, of course they adhered to the principle... they had to if they were serious about their membership.

I agree. I don't think that anyone should break into a round of applause for NebWes just for observing the rules, same as everybody else in D3. And there are other schools in D3 that are in worse spots in terms of geography, league affiliation opportunities, and scheduling.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Smitty Oom on March 10, 2018, 12:10:00 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2018, 12:07:28 AM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on March 10, 2018, 12:01:41 AM
Greg, would you mind posting your top 10 conferences. I am quite curious. I understand you think a linear 1-10 rank doesn't properly explain how much better those 4 conferences are than the rest, but humor me for a post!  ;) ;D

Maybe tomorrow. I'm starting to wind down right now. Too much overstimulation from too many close games tonight. ;)

I will be waiting on bated breath  ;)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: kiko on March 10, 2018, 12:48:00 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2018, 12:07:28 AM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on March 10, 2018, 12:01:41 AM
Greg, would you mind posting your top 10 conferences. I am quite curious. I understand you think a linear 1-10 rank doesn't properly explain how much better those 4 conferences are than the rest, but humor me for a post!  ;) ;D

Maybe tomorrow. I'm starting to wind down right now. Too much overstimulation from too many close games tonight. ;)

Since you think the ordinal ranking doesn't paint the full picture, when/if you do so, I'd appreciate if you would include some sort of a power rank that shows where the tiers are.

For example, on a 1-25 scale, it might show:
1. WIAC - 24
2. NESCAC - 21
3. UAA - 20
4. CCIW - 20
5. MIAC - 14
etc.
etc.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: smedindy on March 10, 2018, 01:42:31 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2018, 10:53:59 PM
Quote from: dunkin3117 on March 09, 2018, 10:51:53 PM
A charter member? Massey has ranked the IIAC as a top 4 conference the last 2 years. Takes all human bias out of the equation. Currently 2nd best league in the country behind the WIAC.

Wait... a computer knows how to rank and should be trusted? I think we know how this has worked out in the past... to the end that Minor League football got rid of it a few years back.

Oh, Dave, they totally neutered the rankings by downgrading their Strength of Schedule, and by removing any margin of victory from the calculations. Do we have to keep having the same conversations OVER and OVER and OVER again??? Live in the now, or be banished like a luddite using adding machines, quills, and foolscap.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: smedindy on March 10, 2018, 01:57:58 AM
Been looking at the IIAC Massey Ratings. They have four in the Top 40:

2. Nebraska Wesleyan
17. Loras
23. Wartburg
35. Buena Vista

When a conference like the IIAC has good non-conference wins, and then the conference season is competitive, that tends to raise everyone up, as teams get upset or eke out wins against the bottom of the conference, because that happens. Plus, wins that were maybe not as impressive at first became impressive.

e.g. Nebraska Wesleyan's win over Bethany Lutheran

Loras had some nice wins over Ripon, Lake Forest, and Monmouth.
Wartburg beat Aurora and Stevens Point and had two othe wins over WIAC teams. That helps a lot.

Now, since everything is connected, and one game over here affects the whole kitten caboodle, good wins by IIAC teams rise up the entire IIAC.

And before you claim "Fiddlesticks", and go by what you think should be the way, and all that stuff, think critically on WHY the rankings are why they are, and not deride them because someone talked to you about that team in January.


Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: smedindy on March 10, 2018, 02:23:56 AM
One last thing or two:

The upsets in the first round definitely affected the Massey Ratings.
Also, playing (and beating or coming close to) MIAC and WIAC teams (in the Midwest) does help you raise up in the rankings.

Why (for both)?

Think of the ratings at a point in time - predictions are spun off of those ratings.

If you beat the prediction, you'll improve - a little if you lose with dignity - a lot if you upset and rout a top team on the road (or neutral, even).

Now every game has this going on, and team ratings move and bob with their results, and the results of others. So, if a team you beat two weeks ago upsets a top team, then your rating will raise accordingly.

So, getting back to Loras, for an example - they're helped more by Wartburg's wins than anything else (though they had nice wins over MWC teams that have good ratings) and their subsequent split against Wartburg (which they got the better end of it, beating them by 17 at home, which is nice) and most importantly, their 10 point win over Nebraska Wesleyan, which definitely exceeded expectations. Because it was such an even year, their clunkers against bad to mediocre teams didn't matter that much - it was the games where they and the IIAC exceeded expectations that got them rated this highly.

Now, is the IIAC the second best league? No. But I cant sit here and say that Loras isn't as good Wooster, or Yorkpa, or Emory or Ramapo. Each of those teams had a "WHAAAAT??" loss (Emory lost to Hampden Sydney, Yorkpa to Frostburg, Ramapo to Central (IA), and yes Wooster to dear old Wabash).
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: AndOne on March 10, 2018, 03:09:44 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2018, 12:09:28 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2018, 11:46:38 PM
Quote from: AndOne on March 09, 2018, 11:45:24 PM
The thing is, Dave, that it would have been easy for NWU to give in and start giving athletic money, especially considering they were kind of on an island with regard to other NCAA schools. So give them a little credit for continuing to adhere to the NCAA philosophy and to work to ultimately solely associate with that organization.

I am not saying they shouldn't be applauded with sticking to the DIII model, but the moment they didn't... they wouldn't have been in DIII. I was simply saying, of course they adhered to the principle... they had to if they were serious about their membership.

I agree. I don't think that anyone should break into a round of applause for NebWes just for observing the rules, same as everybody else in D3. And there are other schools in D3 that are in worse spots in terms of geography, league affiliation opportunities, and scheduling.

You can almost always find someone or something that has it worse, Greg.
But that doesn't mean your concerns have no validity. In this particular case, sure, there are a few schools that have it worse than NWU in terms of being isolated. Consider, however, that those institutions don't play 20 conference games a year in a conference where every single other school gives athletic scholarships. Makes for a situation where the odds are kind of stacked against you. I'm not saying applaud them for following the rules, I'm saying just give them credit for not caving to the pressure and going the NAIA route, but instead staying true to the NCAA D3 philosophy and ideals to the point of giving up any and all association with the NAIA. I think they deserve a degree or two of respect for doing so.   :)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 10, 2018, 07:41:24 AM
Props to the NEWMAC. I think they may have been an afterthought after MIT lost Jomard near the end of the regular season. Yes, they won the conference championship, but I don't think many of us thought they'd make the Elite 8. Springfield was probably the last team in. Both knocked off favored NESCAC teams.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 10, 2018, 08:29:19 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 10, 2018, 07:41:24 AM
Props to the NEWMAC. I think they may have been an afterthought after MIT lost Jomard near the end of the regular season. Yes, they won the conference championship, but I don't think many of us thought they'd make the Elite 8. Springfield was probably the last team in. Both knocked off favored NESCAC teams.

What I love about this round is that you're only going to get eight team playing their best basketball - no one backs into the Sectional final.  There's no talk of ceilings or potential.  That being said, if MIT can pull off a win tonight, they do get an extra week of rest and rehab for Jomard, so who knows?
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: fantastic50 on March 10, 2018, 11:42:32 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2018, 11:36:07 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 09, 2018, 11:27:05 PM
It occurred to me this evening that the Elite Eight contains only FIVE ranked teams (from the last pre-tourney poll): #1, 9,14,19,24.  Did the pollsters have an off-week?  Have there been that many legitimate upsets?  Has parity gone stark-raving mad in D3?  I lean most heavily on the last option, but see some of each at work.  Comments?

It's that last part. It is why I have 40-50 schools I'm considering for my ballot each week.

I have four of the last eight on my ballot. The only ones I don't are Oshkosh, Ramapo, Springfield, and MIT... and all of them I considered, though MIT was a short thought considering they didn't have Jomard back.

I think that there is more parity and quality depth than we saw 5-10 years ago.  Here were my final rankings going into the tournament...

Sectional finalists
#2 Whitman
#6 Nebraska Wesleyan
#7 Augustana
#17 UW-Oshkosh
#31 MIT
#33 Swarthmore
#42 Ramapo
#71 Springfield (but did predict their at-large berth)

Other sectional (Sweet 16) teams
#1 UW-Platteville
#4 John Carroll
#12 UW-Stevens Point
#26 Hamilton
#27 Emory
#33 Swarthmore
#39 Middlebury
#55 F&M
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: fantastic50 on March 10, 2018, 11:48:40 AM
My bracket is busted like everyone else's, but a lot of the upsets seemed plausible (Wash. U. aside).  See below (with color added to emphasize right/wrong picks.)

Quote from: fantastic50 on March 02, 2018, 10:36:03 AM
Here's my take on the tournament...

Top-left bracket
Sectional final: Williams over Johns Hopkins
Salem darkhorse: MIT
Upset watch: Lebanon Valley over Middlebury

Bottom-left bracket
Sectional final: Wittenberg over John Carroll (but watch Augustana)
Salem darkhorse: Augsburg
Upset watch: Hope over Augsburg

Top-right bracket
Sectional final: UW-Platteville over Whitman (could have been for the Walnut & Bronze)
Salem darkhorse: Nebraska Wesleyan
Upset watch: CMS over Whitworth

Bottom-right bracket
Sectional final: Wesleyan over Cabrini
Salem darkhorse: None, but six teams have a decent shot (York, Plattsburgh, Hamilton, Swarthmore)
Upset watch: Nazareth over Hamilton

Championship
UW-Platteville over Wittenberg
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: fantastic50 on March 10, 2018, 11:54:11 AM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on March 09, 2018, 07:49:36 PM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 09, 2018, 07:34:40 PM
There's always that discussion about when you're up 3 do you foul or not. With less than 4 seconds left in regulation I was thinking they should if he missed the FT because a second or two would run off and they couldn't tie it at the line. Sure enough he missed, they didn't foul, and Springfield hit the 3 to tie.

Exciting down to the wire finishes so far.

DePauw's Coach Fenlon would have fouled. He has laid it in out and probability states you should foul. Here is the paper he published:

https://www.depauw.edu/news-media/latest-news/details/25895/ (https://www.depauw.edu/news-media/latest-news/details/25895/)

http://c510383.r83.cf2.rackcdn.com/ath/mbasket/images/up3.pdf

This is cool!  I had not seen this, even with Coach Fenlon being in the NCAC.

Along these lines, a 2015 paper at the annual MIT Sloan Sports Analytics conference went even farther, suggesting late-game fouling
in a variety of situations while trailing OR LEADING.  The author, Franklin Kenter (who was then a math PhD student at Rice and is now a faculty member at USNA) is known for devising strategies that "break" games (including board games, etc.).  His foray into basketball got mainstream media attention, including a blurb in Sports Illustrated.

http://www.sloansportsconference.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/SSAC15-RP-Poster-Paper-An-Analysis-of-the-Basketball-Endgame.pdf (http://www.sloansportsconference.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/SSAC15-RP-Poster-Paper-An-Analysis-of-the-Basketball-Endgame.pdf)

https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/aempep/the-horrible-sloan-paper-that-would-destroy-basketball (https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/aempep/the-horrible-sloan-paper-that-would-destroy-basketball)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 10, 2018, 01:10:28 PM

Well, MIT fouled up three last night, so it feels like there's some added weight to the theory.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 10, 2018, 01:52:35 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 10, 2018, 01:10:28 PM

Well, MIT fouled up three last night, so it feels like there's some added weight to the theory.

Sat courtside at a game at the Palestra this year... in overtime... where the conversation on air was "do you foul" leading by three and seconds left. I basically said, you should. They didn't; three pointer tied the game. :)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2018, 03:27:34 PM
Quote from: kiko on March 10, 2018, 12:48:00 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2018, 12:07:28 AM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on March 10, 2018, 12:01:41 AM
Greg, would you mind posting your top 10 conferences. I am quite curious. I understand you think a linear 1-10 rank doesn't properly explain how much better those 4 conferences are than the rest, but humor me for a post!  ;) ;D

Maybe tomorrow. I'm starting to wind down right now. Too much overstimulation from too many close games tonight. ;)

Since you think the ordinal ranking doesn't paint the full picture, when/if you do so, I'd appreciate if you would include some sort of a power rank that shows where the tiers are.

For example, on a 1-25 scale, it might show:
1. WIAC - 24
2. NESCAC - 21
3. UAA - 20
4. CCIW - 20
5. MIAC - 14
etc.
etc.

OK, I'm spitballing this, and I am looking more at a five- or six-year pattern rather than only this season's (parity-laden) results, but off of the top of my head it'd look like this:


  1. WIAC  25
  2. CCIW  23
  3. NESCAC  22
  4. UAA  20
  5. NEWMAC  13
  6. MIAC  12
  7. OAC  10
  8. Centennial    9
  9. ODAC    8
10. NCAC    7

I think that, right now, the IIAC is probably the best of the rest. Adding perennially solid Nebraska Wesleyan to that league has definitely lifted the quality of the league by a significant margin.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Oline89 on March 10, 2018, 05:00:51 PM
Also spittballing here.   Does the fact that the NESCAC put 4 teams into the tournament (and there was huge argument on this board that they should have had 5), combined with the fact that only one team made the elite eight and zero made the final four, mean that there may be a chance that this league is slightly over-hyped?  Perhaps they are not the power conference of the East, that they have been dubbed?  I am not NESCAC bashing here, but really catering more to the idea that there is far more parity in D3 than in D1, where there are obvious "power" conferences.  What would the results had been if another conference, say the CC or SUNYAC or NJAC or LL put 4 teams into the tournament. 
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2018, 05:03:11 PM
Quote from: AndOne on March 10, 2018, 03:09:44 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2018, 12:09:28 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2018, 11:46:38 PM
Quote from: AndOne on March 09, 2018, 11:45:24 PM
The thing is, Dave, that it would have been easy for NWU to give in and start giving athletic money, especially considering they were kind of on an island with regard to other NCAA schools. So give them a little credit for continuing to adhere to the NCAA philosophy and to work to ultimately solely associate with that organization.

I am not saying they shouldn't be applauded with sticking to the DIII model, but the moment they didn't... they wouldn't have been in DIII. I was simply saying, of course they adhered to the principle... they had to if they were serious about their membership.

I agree. I don't think that anyone should break into a round of applause for NebWes just for observing the rules, same as everybody else in D3. And there are other schools in D3 that are in worse spots in terms of geography, league affiliation opportunities, and scheduling.

You can almost always find someone or something that has it worse, Greg.
But that doesn't mean your concerns have no validity. In this particular case, sure, there are a few schools that have it worse than NWU in terms of being isolated. Consider, however, that those institutions don't play 20 conference games a year in a conference where every single other school gives athletic scholarships. Makes for a situation where the odds are kind of stacked against you. I'm not saying applaud them for following the rules, I'm saying just give them credit for not caving to the pressure and going the NAIA route, but instead staying true to the NCAA D3 philosophy and ideals to the point of giving up any and all association with the NAIA. I think they deserve a degree or two of respect for doing so.   :)

"Caving to the pressure and going the NAIA route" was a choice that NWU decided not to make. That's the point here; the school was not forced into anything. The people who run NWU had options. Giving Nebraska Wesleyan "respect" for its decisions implies either that: a) NCAA-D3 is always the right choice and NAIA is always the wrong choice; or that b) taking on the handicap of offering no scholarships in a scholarship-laden league is an indication of virtue. I don't think that either one is true.

There's no ethical credit that comes from being a part of D3. While a lot of us believe that institutions of higher learning that don't offer athletic scholarships have their priorities in better order than those that do, it's simply not a cut-and-dried situation that non-scholarship schools are automatically "better", either academically or ethically, than scholarship schools. The NAIA fits a need and has its own way of doing things, just as NCAA-D3 does. I prefer D3, but I'm not a snob about it. Remember, at least a couple of other GPAC schools (Doane and Concordia NE, if I remember correctly) did an exploratory year of D3 in this decade and eventually opted not to switch. This is truly a situation in which "to each his own" applies on an institutional basis. And it also needs to be said that, when NWU declared it was dropping both its NAIA affiliation and membership in the GPAC in order to join the IIAC, NWU athletic director Ira Zeff citied two factors -- the shorter seasons and the increased opportunities for national championships in D3 -- in his press conference, not the scholarship issue.

As for NWU remaining scholarship-free and maintaining dual affiliation in an NAIA-oriented league whose other members offered scholies, that doesn't mean that NWU was virtuous for participating in the GPAC with one hand tied behind its back. Nobody forced NWU to do that. It wasn't constrained by resources, nor were there any other intrinsic reasons for doing that, other than that it reflected the priorities set by the NWU Board of Governors. Likewise, nobody forced NWU to drop the NAIA affiliation and switch leagues. That was a virtue-neutral decision, because athletic scholarships aren't by their very nature unethical. If you're going to be a D3 school, the optimal situation is to get out of your NAIA league and into a D3 league. That's all.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2018, 05:05:09 PM
Quote from: Oline79 on March 10, 2018, 05:00:51 PM
Also spittballing here.   Does the fact that the NESCAC put 4 teams into the tournament (and there was huge argument on this board that they should have had 5), combined with the fact that only one team made the elite eight and zero made the final four, mean that there may be a chance that this league is slightly over-hyped?  Perhaps they are not the power conference of the East, that they have been dubbed?

I don't think so. You have to take the long view, not just look at one season, or one March, to draw conclusions like this. The NESCAC has definitely earned its status as a power conference, and it's kept that status for a long time now, this weekend notwithstanding.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 10, 2018, 05:23:38 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2018, 05:05:09 PM
Quote from: Oline79 on March 10, 2018, 05:00:51 PM
Also spittballing here.   Does the fact that the NESCAC put 4 teams into the tournament (and there was huge argument on this board that they should have had 5), combined with the fact that only one team made the elite eight and zero made the final four, mean that there may be a chance that this league is slightly over-hyped?  Perhaps they are not the power conference of the East, that they have been dubbed?

I don't think so. You have to take the long view, not just look at one season, or one March, to draw conclusions like this. The NESCAC has definitely earned its status as a power conference, and it's kept that status for a long time now, this weekend notwithstanding.

Yeah... honestly, Hamilton was one long three away from being in the Elite 8 (Springfield hit a hell of a shot). We have a lot more good teams in the country now, but considering how the NESCAC tends to prove they have a number of good teams... I am not holding them accountable for not having more further in the tournament. Just as I am not holding the WIAC accountable after having three teams in the Sweet 16 for the first time and only one remains. That happens.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2018, 07:38:22 PM
Ramapo leads MIT at the half, 44-40.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2018, 07:40:47 PM
Swarthmore leads Springfield at the half, 40-33. The Garnet should've had an even bigger lead than that, as they missed a bunch of shots at the rim in the first part of the half.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2018, 08:27:07 PM
Has Whitman been down by 20 all season yet? The Blues are doubled up right now by NebWes, 42-21.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: WUPHF on March 10, 2018, 08:32:54 PM
The MIT-Ramapo has been a good one. Tie game with 50 seconds left.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 10, 2018, 08:34:37 PM
With just under 7 to go in the first, Augie has never led, but has finally caught up and tied UWO (at 22, then again at 24).  Oshkosh stormed out to an early 9 point lead., but it looks like yet another tight game in the E8.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2018, 08:38:26 PM
Congratulations to Springfield, which rode superstar Jake Ross tonight to qualify for the school's first-ever D3 Final Four appearance with a 74-62 win over host Swarthmore.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2018, 08:41:25 PM
Christopher Morley hit a pair of free throws with two seconds left to propel Ramapo to its first Final Four appearance since 1991 with a 68-66 win over MIT.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2018, 08:48:12 PM
Nolan Ebel hit a lunging halfcourt shot at the buzzer to send Augie into the locker room with a 39-39 tie with UW-Oshkosh.

Folks across the country are getting a taste of what these two leagues are all about. It's a classic CCIW/WIAC physical, defense-oriented halfcourt game.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: mailsy on March 10, 2018, 08:48:38 PM
Congrats to Springfield. As much as I would have liked to have seen a team from PA make it I am not displeased to see the Pride win. They took out my Cavs. They have a solid team. I hope their fan base has a great time in Salem. Enjoy it!
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Yogao on March 10, 2018, 08:49:07 PM
Tied 39-39 at the half in Rock Island. UWO hit a 3 with 6 seconds left, and Augie hit one 10 ft from half court to tie it up going into the half.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: dunkin3117 on March 10, 2018, 08:49:53 PM
UNRANKED Nebraska Wesleyan out of the IIAC up 67-41... Over #1 Whitman...yep...the IIAC is trash...hope I don't eat my words in 20 minutes  :)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 10, 2018, 08:50:32 PM
So the first two teams into the Final Four were not only unranked in the last pre-tourney poll, neither received a single vote! :o  And unless #1 Whitman stages a helluva second-half comeback (they trail NebWes by 26 at the half), that will be a THRIRD unranked team (though NWU at least was the highest among the ORVs).

Parity gone mad!!  (And a few legitimate upsets.)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2018, 08:51:58 PM
Meanwhile, up in Lead City the Prairie Wolves of Nebraska Wesleyan are putting on a shooting clinic en route to a 67-41 lead over #1 Whitman at the half. Check out these team shooting splits for NWU in the first half: .703/.700/.727. The Wolves are beating the Whitman press (only five turnovers) and getting easy layups, and they've hit a bunch of treys off of secondary break kick-outs to the corner.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2018, 09:02:44 PM
I just got name-dropped on the air on the Augie broadcast. That's a weird feeling. ;)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2018, 09:04:38 PM
Whitman's now down by 32. Amazing.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2018, 09:22:40 PM
Wow! Dumb, dumb, dumb move by Charlie Noone. He picked up an obvious blocking foul, yelled something at the ref -- and exited the game by being T'ed up for his fifth foul. That's what you count upon for a senior not to do.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2018, 09:28:54 PM
Nebraska Wesleyan's broken the century mark, and there's still 9:47 to go.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: middhoops on March 10, 2018, 09:34:09 PM
First time seeing Nebraska Wesleyan.  Whoa!!
These guys are laying one serious beat down on Whitman.  And making it look easy.
Can't take my eyes off their game even though Augustana and Oshkosh are in a close battle.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2018, 09:53:35 PM
Nebraska Wesleyan 130
Whitman 97

That's the most impressive win I've seen in a long, long time.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Yogao on March 10, 2018, 09:59:07 PM
Why wouldn't a UWO Augie game go to OT? Now will they make it to double OT like their first match up this year. Tied 76-76 at the end of the 2nd half.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2018, 09:59:29 PM
For the second time this season, Augustana and UW-Oshkosh are going to overtime, as Augie's Chrishawn Orange hit a six-foot floater in the lane to tie up the game with five seconds remaining. Ben Boots of UWO, who was on fire from deep late in the game, missed a long fling at the basket as time expired.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2018, 10:14:11 PM
UW-Oshkosh beats Augustana in overtime, 95-88. Great game between two heavyweights who traded blows all night. In the end, there was just too much Ben Boots for Augie to handle.

Congratulations to the Titans, who will be making the first D3 Final Four trip in school history.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: mailsy on March 10, 2018, 10:16:49 PM
3 unranked teams and the #24 ranked team in the final 4. Who would of thought that at beginning of the season?  :o Well the final will all be ranked and 1 will be number 1 in the last poll.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 10, 2018, 10:17:41 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2018, 10:14:11 PM
UW-Oshkosh beats Augustana in overtime, 95-88. Great game between two heavyweights who traded blows all night. In the end, there was just too much Ben Boots for Augie to handle.

Congratulations to the Titans, who will be making the first D3 Final Four trip in school history.

Yep.  Despite the magnificent outing by Nolan Ebel, Augie got 'Booted' from the tourney.  Ben Boots had 9 points in OT alone.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2018, 10:18:31 PM
Friday night in Salem:

UW-Oshkosh (24-7) vs. Ramapo (25-6)
Nebraska Wesleyan (28-3) vs. Springfield (23-8)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2018, 10:20:24 PM
I can't prove it right off the bat, but I'm dead certain that this is the worst collective winning percentage in D3 Final Four history.

It just goes to show that parity is king this season.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: AllStar on March 10, 2018, 10:21:04 PM
Final Four!
(https://i.imgur.com/ltAwcnK.png)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 10, 2018, 10:26:07 PM
Quote from: mailsy on March 10, 2018, 10:16:49 PM
3 unranked teams and the #24 ranked team in the final 4. Who would of thought that at beginning of the season?  :o Well the final will all be ranked and 1 will be number 1 in the last poll.

There's parity and then there is utter chaos! :o

The FF generally has AT LEAST two teams ranked in the final (regular season) top ten, and I'm not sure there has EVER been a FF with even two unranked teams, much less three (and two of them receiving ZERO votes).  For the highest FF team to be ranked #24 is beyond weird - we've entered the Twilight Zone. :o 8-) ::)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: BobbyO on March 10, 2018, 10:32:21 PM
Congrats to WI Oshkosh!  Time for me to cancel hotel reservation.  Now I pull for Oshkosh,  If they win it all then Augie knock out of tournament last four years by eventual champs.  I see a NE and WI team in the final.  Augie returns all starters but Soritillo next year and AJ graduates out.  Should be another good year 18-19.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 10, 2018, 11:02:00 PM
BTW - NWU shot 68% for the game and was over 70% for most of it... 62% from beyond the arc. They could have beaten just about any team out there shooting like that!
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: rlgyank on March 10, 2018, 11:05:08 PM
Quote from: mailsy on March 10, 2018, 10:16:49 PM
3 unranked teams and the #24 ranked team in the final 4. Who would of thought that at beginning of the season?  :o Well the final will all be ranked and 1 will be number 1 in the last poll.

Don't be so sure about that. Because some team from the NESCAC made the final four 7 years ago, they will probably have the top 4 spots in the final poll.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: 7express on March 10, 2018, 11:28:01 PM
If only I put $5,000 each on Ramapo, Oshkosh, Neb Wesleyan & Springfield as the 4 teams heading to Salem at the beginning of the year  ::)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Smitty Oom on March 10, 2018, 11:34:22 PM
Quote from: 7express on March 10, 2018, 11:28:01 PM
If only I put $5,000 each on Ramapo, Oshkosh, Neb Wesleyan & Springfield as the 4 teams heading to Salem at the beginning of the year  ::)

Hitting that kind of exacta would land you on a real nice beach front mansion in Hawaii!  ;D
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: smedindy on March 11, 2018, 12:37:26 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2018, 10:20:24 PM
I can't prove it right off the bat, but I'm dead certain that this is the worst collective winning percentage in D3 Final Four history.

It just goes to show that parity is king this season.

And Lady Luck is Queen...

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/de/Joker_Joker_Joker.jpg)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 11, 2018, 01:00:26 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2018, 10:45:06 PM
It's going to take a Final Four appearance for the IIAC to get any props, dunkin. The IIAC is a charter member conference of D3, yet it has never had a team reach the final weekend of the season in the 44 previous D3 tourneys.

Props in order now, Greg?  ;D ??? :P ::) :o ;)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: AllStar on March 11, 2018, 01:23:20 AM
Info...and then that's it for tonight.  Congrats to the four teams that are still playing!
(https://i.imgur.com/gQQYbmg.png?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/v0ZHiIt.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/OQejWPV.png)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: AndOne on March 11, 2018, 03:50:53 AM
Congrats to my alma mater, the NWU Prairie Wolves, or as I still call them the Plainsmen, on taking down the nation's #1 ranked team to advance to the Final Four next weekend in Salem. It will mark the fifth Final Four appearance for the Wolves, and the first since 1997 when, known as the Plainsmen, they finished second. After a 33 point beat down of the nation's #1 team earlier tonight, it appears the boys from Lincoln have created a sizable wave of momentum which they can hopefully ride to a national championship next weekend. Not bad for an unranked team many thought might not be worthy of an invitation to the big dance had they not captured the conference tourney championship and the AQ.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Titan Q on March 11, 2018, 10:01:13 AM
UW-Oshkosh becomes the 5th WIAC school to make the D3 Final Four.  The CCIW, WIAC, NESCAC, and NCAC have all sent 5...

*CCIW 5 (Augustana 6, Illinois Wesleyan 6, North Park 5, Carthage 1, North Central 1)
*WIAC 5 (Whitewater 5, Platteville 5, Stevens Point 4, Eau Claire 1, Oshkosh 1)
*NESCAC 5 (Williams 8, Amherst 7, Connecticut College 1, Middlebury 1, Trinity 1)
*NCAC 5 (Wittenberg 7, Wooster 3, DePauw 2, Ohio Wesleyan 1 Wabash 1)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: TheOsprey on March 11, 2018, 10:23:23 AM
Quote from: Titan Q on March 11, 2018, 10:01:13 AM
UW-Oshkosh becomes the 5th WIAC school to make the D3 Final Four.  The CCIW, WIAC, and NESCAC have all sent 5...

*CCIW 5 (Augustana 6, Illinois Wesleyan 6, North Park 5, Carthage 1, North Central 1)
*WIAC 5 (Whitewater 5, Platteville 5, Stevens Point 4, Eau Claire 1, Oshkosh 1)
*NESCAC 5 (Williams 8, Amherst 7, Connecticut College 1, Middlebury 1, Trinity 1)

NJAC 6.  Ramapo, Rowan, Stockton, William Paterson, TCNJ(Trenton St.), NJCU(Jersey City St.)

From 1986 - 1996 the NJAC had a team in the final four in eight of those years(5 different schools)

Three times--  Stockton (twice) and Kean were denied FF tickets by opponents in all NJAC sectionals during this period.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 11, 2018, 10:41:06 AM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 01, 2018, 03:24:13 AM
A little look at how hosts have done in the tournament recently... 2013 was the awkward year where the tournament was stretched out to the breaking point.

       Round 1   Round 2   Sweet 16   Elite 8
2017:   15-1       11-4       2-2       1-1
2016:   11-5        9-3       3-1       1-2
2015:   13-3       12-2       4-0       3-1
2014:   12-4        9-4       3-1       2-1
2013:   24-6        8-8       6-2        -
2012:   11-5        8-3       2-2       1-1
2011:   13-3       10-3       3-1       2-1
2010:   11-5        9-4       3-1       3-0
Totals minus 2013:
        86-26      68-23     20-8      13-7
        76.8%      74.1%     71.4%      65%
2018:     14-2          6-8          3-1          1-2
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: sac on March 11, 2018, 11:53:02 AM
Quote from: Titan Q on March 11, 2018, 10:01:13 AM
UW-Oshkosh becomes the 5th WIAC school to make the D3 Final Four.  The CCIW, WIAC, NESCAC, and NCAC have all sent 5...

*CCIW 5 (Augustana 6, Illinois Wesleyan 6, North Park 5, Carthage 1, North Central 1)
*WIAC 5 (Whitewater 5, Platteville 5, Stevens Point 4, Eau Claire 1, Oshkosh 1)
*NESCAC 5 (Williams 8, Amherst 7, Connecticut College 1, Middlebury 1, Trinity 1)
*NCAC 5 (Wittenberg 7, Wooster 3, DePauw 2, Ohio Wesleyan 1 Wabash 1)

I don't believe DePauw and Wabash were in the NCAC at the time they made the Final 4.
Five of Wittenberg's Final Fours would pre-date their entrance into the NCAC (1990)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Titan Q on March 11, 2018, 12:33:45 PM
Quote from: sac on March 11, 2018, 11:53:02 AM
Quote from: Titan Q on March 11, 2018, 10:01:13 AM
UW-Oshkosh becomes the 5th WIAC school to make the D3 Final Four.  The CCIW, WIAC, NESCAC, and NCAC have all sent 5...

*CCIW 5 (Augustana 6, Illinois Wesleyan 6, North Park 5, Carthage 1, North Central 1)
*WIAC 5 (Whitewater 5, Platteville 5, Stevens Point 4, Eau Claire 1, Oshkosh 1)
*NESCAC 5 (Williams 8, Amherst 7, Connecticut College 1, Middlebury 1, Trinity 1)
*NCAC 5 (Wittenberg 7, Wooster 3, DePauw 2, Ohio Wesleyan 1 Wabash 1)

I don't believe DePauw and Wabash were in the NCAC at the time they made the Final 4.
Five of Wittenberg's Final Fours would pre-date their entrance into the NCAC (1990)

Correct.  I'm just looking at the leagues as they are set up currently.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Titan Q on March 11, 2018, 02:19:17 PM
Division III Tournament History Updated...

Tournament Appearances (17+)
-Scranton (LAND) 28
-Wittenberg (NCAC) 28
-Hope (MIAA) 27
-Wooster (NCAC) 27
-Franklin & Marshal (CC) 25
-Illinois Wesleyan (CCIW) 25
-Salem State (MASCAC) 24
-Calvin (MIAA) 21
-Christopher Newport (CAC) 22
-UW-Whitewater (WIAC) 21
-Wash U (UAA) 21
-Amherst (NESCAC) 19
-Maryville TN (USAC) 18
-New Jersey City (NJAC) 18
-St. Thomas (MIAC) 18
-Augustana (CCIW) 17

Tournament Wins (30+)
-Illinois Wesleyan (CCIW) 54
-Wittenberg (NCAC) 52
-Williams (NESCAC) 47
-Franklin & Marshall (CC) 45
-Augustana (CCIW) 42
-Amherst (NESCAC) 41
-UW-Stevens Point (WIAC) 38
-UW-Whitewater (WIAC) 38
-Scranton (LAND) 37
-SUNY Potsdam (SUNYAC) 36
-Calvin (MIAA) 35
-UW-Platteville (WIAC) 33
-Wooster (NCAC) 35
-Wash U (UAA) 33
-Hope (MIAA) 32
-Rochester (UAA) 31

Final Four appearances (4+)
-Williams (NESCAC) 8
-Amherst (NESCAC) 7
-Wittenberg (NCAC) 7
-Augustana (CCIW) 6
-Illinois Wesleyan (CCIW) 6
-Franklin & Marshall (CC) 5
-Nebraska Wesleyan (IIAC) 5
-North Park (CCIW) 5
-SUNY-Potsdam (SUNYAC) 5
-UW-Whitewater (WIAC) 5
-UW-Platteville (WIAC) 5
-Calvin (MIAA) 4
-Rochester (UAA) 4
-Rowan (NJAC) 4
-Scranton (LAND) 4
-St. Thomas (MIAC) 4
-UW-Stevens Point (WIAC) 4

National Championships (2+)
-North Park (CCIW) 5
-UW-Platteville (WIAC) 4
-UW-Stevens Point (WIAC) 4
-UW-Whitewater (WIAC) 4
-Amherst (NESCAC) 2
-Calvin (MIAA) 2
-Scranton (LAND) 2
-St. Thomas (MIAC) 2
-SUNY Potsdam (SUNYAC) 2
-Wash U (UAA) 2
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 11, 2018, 02:46:14 PM
Quote from: rlgyank on March 10, 2018, 11:05:08 PM
Quote from: mailsy on March 10, 2018, 10:16:49 PM
3 unranked teams and the #24 ranked team in the final 4. Who would of thought that at beginning of the season?  :o Well the final will all be ranked and 1 will be number 1 in the last poll.

Don't be so sure about that. Because some team from the NESCAC made the final four 7 years ago, they will probably have the top 4 spots in the final poll.

Your bitterness and sarcasm aside, the NESCAC has had five teams in the Final Four in the past five years.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 11, 2018, 03:32:13 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 11, 2018, 01:00:26 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2018, 10:45:06 PM
It's going to take a Final Four appearance for the IIAC to get any props, dunkin. The IIAC is a charter member conference of D3, yet it has never had a team reach the final weekend of the season in the 44 previous D3 tourneys.

Props in order now, Greg?  ;D ??? :P ::) :o ;)

Yep, props ... and a question: Why didn't the IIAC invite NebWes to join the family thirty years ago? ;)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 11, 2018, 03:56:48 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 10, 2018, 10:26:07 PM
Quote from: mailsy on March 10, 2018, 10:16:49 PM
3 unranked teams and the #24 ranked team in the final 4. Who would of thought that at beginning of the season?  :o Well the final will all be ranked and 1 will be number 1 in the last poll.

There's parity and then there is utter chaos! :o

The FF generally has AT LEAST two teams ranked in the final (regular season) top ten, and I'm not sure there has EVER been a FF with even two unranked teams, much less three (and two of them receiving ZERO votes).  For the highest FF team to be ranked #24 is beyond weird - we've entered the Twilight Zone. :o 8-) ::)

The pre-tourney d3hoops.com poll and the Final Four

year champ 2nd 3rd 4th
2000 Calvin (#22)Wisconsin-Eau Claire (#19) Salem State (ORV)
Franklin & Marshall (#5)
2001 Catholic (#7) William Paterson (#2) Illinois Wesleyan (#25)
Ohio Northern (ORV)
2002 Otterbein (no votes) Elizabethtown (ORV) Carthage (#1)
Rochester (no votes)
2003 Williams (#11) Gustavus Adolphus (ORV) Wooster (ORV)
Hampden-Sydney (#7)
2004 Wisconsin-Stevens Point (#3) Williams (#1) John Carroll (#12) Amherst (#14)
2005 Wisconsin-Stevens Point (#1) Rochester (#5) Calvin (no votes) York (PA) (no votes)
2006 Virginia Wesleyan (#11) Wittenberg (#10) Illinois Wesleyan (#1) Amherst (#5)
2007 Amherst (#3) Virginia Wesleyan (#1) Washington (MO) (ORV) Wooster (#2)
2008 Washington (MO) (#1) Amherst (#2) Hope (#11) Ursinus (no votes)
2009 Washington (MO) (#1) Stockton (ORV) Guilford (ORV)
Franklin & Marshall (no votes)
2010 Wisconsin-Stevens Point (#10) Williams (ORV) *Guilford (#3) *Randolph-Macon (#19)
2011 St. Thomas (#13) Wooster (#6) *Middlebury (#9)
*Williams (#8)
2012 Wisconsin-Whitewater (ORV) Cabrini (#14) *Illinois Wesleyan (ORV) *MIT (#10)
2013 Amherst (#5) Mary Hardin-Baylor (ORV) *North Central (IL) (#6) *St. Thomas (#11)
2014 Wisconsin-Whitewater (#13) Williams (#3) *Amherst (#1)
*Illinois Wesleyan (#2)
2015 Wisconsin-Stevens Point (#7) Augustana (#3) *Babson (#23) *Virginia Wesleyan (#19)
2016 St. Thomas (#4) Benedictine (no votes) *Amherst (#5)
*Christopher Newport (ORV)
2017 Babson (#3) Augustana (#18) *Whitman (#9) *Williams (no votes)
2018 ^Wisconsin-Oshkosh (#24) ^Nebraska Wesleyan (ORV) ^Ramapo (no votes) ^Springfield (no votes)

* Third-place finish following elimination of national consolation game
^ Final Four yet to be played


Poll points per Final Four
2000:   750
2001: 1064
2002:   620
2003:   839
2004: 1604
2005: 1028
2006: 1644
2007: 1676
2008: 1529
2009:   680
2010: 1068
2011: 1473
2012:   579
2013: 1205
2014: 1934
2015: 1206
2016:   863
2017: 1093
2018:   158
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Titan Q on March 11, 2018, 04:20:15 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 11, 2018, 03:56:48 PM
Poll points per Final Four
2000:   750
2001: 1064
2002:   620
2003:   839
2004: 1604
2005: 1028
2006: 1644
2007: 1676
2008: 1529
2009:   680
2010: 1068
2011: 1473
2012:   579
2013: 1205
2014: 1934
2015: 1206
2016:   863
2017: 1093
2018:   158

No bonuses for the D3hoops.com Top 25 pollsters this year.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 11, 2018, 04:33:31 PM
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdnak1.psbin.com%2Fimg%2Fmw%3D710%2Fcr%3Dn%2Fd%3D5fzhr%2Fnl2ewx65u7natfgf.jpg&hash=1d3f50b1fdbca920493edbe6408a62371602177d)

The Road to Rochester and Salem are nearly complete. Only thing left is to actually hit the road and get the teams, media, fans, and others to their respective championships.

It was a thrilling and, maybe, shocking Sectionals Weekend in Division III. For the women, quite a few exciting games, but four of the top five teams in the country advanced to the Championship Weekend.

Not so much on the men's side. Only one ranked team is headed to Salem. Two weren't even receiving votes in the last Top 25 poll. And two have never been to the final four. Only one host got out of their own gym by cutting down their own nets. It was crazy.

On Sunday night's episode of Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com), Dave and guests try and break down what happened this weekend and what we might be able to expect in Rochester and Salem. Who came up big, who had the bounces go their way, and more. Guests from four of the eight teams will also discuss their roads and initial thoughts on knowing they are two wins away from a national championship.

Hoopsville is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. You can watch the show LIVE starting at 7:00 p.m. ET (did you set your clocks back?) right here: http://bit.ly/2p2BbqB

If you have questions, be sure to email them to hoopsville@d3hoops.com or interact with the show via the social media avenues below.

Guests include (in order of appearance):
- Pat Juckem, No. 24 UW-Oshkosh men's coach
- Ashley Shibles, No. 5 Bowdoin women's coach
- Jeff Hans, No. 3 Thomas More women's coach
- Dale Wellman, Nebraska Wesleyan men's coach
- Ryan Scott, D3hoops.com Around the Nation columnist
- Pat Cunningham, Trinity (Texas) men's coach (NABC All-Star Game)

If you enjoy the show via the podcasts instead, you can get access to them or subscribe one of the three following ways (click on the images when necessary):
SoundCloud: www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville
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(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdnak1.psbin.com%2Fimg%2Fmw%3D150%2Fmh%3D55%2Fcr%3Dn%2Fd%3D34qc6%2Fnv94ufhrqbnvt3d4.jpg&hash=c9b51356cf30d2646f6d744dc0ce47b431cec05e) (http://bit.ly/2rFfr7Z)

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Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 11, 2018, 04:42:31 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on March 11, 2018, 04:20:15 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 11, 2018, 03:56:48 PM
Poll points per Final Four
2000:   750
2001: 1064
2002:   620
2003:   839
2004: 1604
2005: 1028
2006: 1644
2007: 1676
2008: 1529
2009:   680
2010: 1068
2011: 1473
2012:   579
2013: 1205
2014: 1934
2015: 1206
2016:   863
2017: 1093
2018:   158

No bonuses for the D3hoops.com Top 25 pollsters this year.

Yeah, the poll points listing is where you see just how glaringly off the last regular-season poll was in predicting this particular Final Four, as compared to previous seasons. It's only 27% as accurate as the previous least-accurate poll to date (2012) had been in predicting the Final Four.

Of course, upsets are just as much a fact of life in the tourney as they are in the regular season, and the money-based bracketing decisions made by the NCAA D3 men's basketball national committee tend to distort how the field looks in terms of the d3hoops.com poll. Still, it's amazing how dramatically this poll deviates from all of the previous seasons since the poll was launched in terms of Final Four accuracy.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 11, 2018, 05:34:37 PM
It's a perfect reflection of what an unpredictable season this has been. (Although I wish some of those people who had Nichols so high on their ballot had given Nebraska Wesleyan a better look.)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: ronk on March 11, 2018, 08:30:31 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on March 11, 2018, 10:01:13 AM
UW-Oshkosh becomes the 5th WIAC school to make the D3 Final Four.  The CCIW, WIAC, NESCAC, and NCAC have all sent 5...

*CCIW 5 (Augustana 6, Illinois Wesleyan 6, North Park 5, Carthage 1, North Central 1)
*WIAC 5 (Whitewater 5, Platteville 5, Stevens Point 4, Eau Claire 1, Oshkosh 1)
*NESCAC 5 (Williams 8, Amherst 7, Connecticut College 1, Middlebury 1, Trinity 1)
*NCAC 5 (Wittenberg 7, Wooster 3, DePauw 2, Ohio Wesleyan 1 Wabash 1)

The MAC has had 7 in the Final 4(Northern Division - Scranton, Upsala, Wilkes, Elizabethtown; Southern Division - Widener, F&M, Lebanon Valley), although none in the "modern" era(since 2002).  :(
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 11, 2018, 08:48:27 PM
Posted this to Twitter earlier, but the NJAC has had six.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: kiko on March 11, 2018, 08:53:54 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 11, 2018, 03:56:48 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 10, 2018, 10:26:07 PM
Quote from: mailsy on March 10, 2018, 10:16:49 PM
3 unranked teams and the #24 ranked team in the final 4. Who would of thought that at beginning of the season?  :o Well the final will all be ranked and 1 will be number 1 in the last poll.

There's parity and then there is utter chaos! :o

The FF generally has AT LEAST two teams ranked in the final (regular season) top ten, and I'm not sure there has EVER been a FF with even two unranked teams, much less three (and two of them receiving ZERO votes).  For the highest FF team to be ranked #24 is beyond weird - we've entered the Twilight Zone. :o 8-) ::)

The pre-tourney d3hoops.com poll and the Final Four

year champ 2nd 3rd 4th
2000 Calvin (#22)Wisconsin-Eau Claire (#19) Salem State (ORV)
Franklin & Marshall (#5)
2001 Catholic (#7) William Paterson (#2) Illinois Wesleyan (#25)
Ohio Northern (ORV)
2002 Otterbein (no votes) Elizabethtown (ORV) Carthage (#1)
Rochester (no votes)
2003 Williams (#11) Gustavus Adolphus (ORV) Wooster (ORV)
Hampden-Sydney (#7)
2004 Wisconsin-Stevens Point (#3) Williams (#1) John Carroll (#12) Amherst (#14)
2005 Wisconsin-Stevens Point (#1) Rochester (#5) Calvin (no votes) York (PA) (no votes)
2006 Virginia Wesleyan (#11) Wittenberg (#10) Illinois Wesleyan (#1) Amherst (#5)
2007 Amherst (#3) Virginia Wesleyan (#1) Washington (MO) (ORV) Wooster (#2)
2008 Washington (MO) (#1) Amherst (#2) Hope (#11) Ursinus (no votes)
2009 Washington (MO) (#1) Stockton (ORV) Guilford (ORV)
Franklin & Marshall (no votes)
2010 Wisconsin-Stevens Point (#10) Williams (ORV) *Guilford (#3) *Randolph-Macon (#19)
2011 St. Thomas (#13) Wooster (#6) *Middlebury (#9)
*Williams (#8)
2012 Wisconsin-Whitewater (ORV) Cabrini (#14) *Illinois Wesleyan (ORV) *MIT (#10)
2013 Amherst (#5) Mary Hardin-Baylor (ORV) *North Central (IL) (#6) *St. Thomas (#11)
2014 Wisconsin-Whitewater (#13) Williams (#3) *Amherst (#1)
*Illinois Wesleyan (#2)
2015 Wisconsin-Stevens Point (#7) Augustana (#3) *Babson (#23) *Virginia Wesleyan (#19)
2016 St. Thomas (#4) Benedictine (no votes) *Amherst (#5)
*Christopher Newport (ORV)
2017 Babson (#3) Augustana (#18) *Whitman (#9) *Williams (no votes)
2018 ^Wisconsin-Oshkosh (#24) ^Nebraska Wesleyan (ORV) ^Ramapo (no votes) ^Springfield (no votes)

* Third-place finish following elimination of national consolation game
^ Final Four yet to be played


Poll points per Final Four
2000:   750
2001: 1064
2002:   620
2003:   839
2004: 1604
2005: 1028
2006: 1644
2007: 1676
2008: 1529
2009:   680
2010: 1068
2011: 1473
2012:   579
2013: 1205
2014: 1934
2015: 1206
2016:   863
2017: 1093
2018:   158

This is an apples and oranges comparison -- for the previous years, it looks like you are using the preseason poll rather than the final regular season poll.  (Seeing Benedictine with no votes for 2016 was the flag on this; they started at zero in the pre-season but were #2 by the end of the regular season.)

The pre-season nums for 2018 are:
Ramapo - #5 / 457 points
Oshkosh - ORV / 37 points
Nebraska Wesleyan - ORV / 1 point (someone should be strutting like a peacock right now for this)
Springfield - no votes
=====
Total - 495 points

From a pre-season standpoint, it is still the worst forecast on record, but not as bad as it looked using the year-end nums.

And that (being 'not as bad as it looked at year-end') is what makes this year's final four especially astonishing.  The two doorstop winners noted above that were not in the top 25 in the pre-season were Otterbein in 2002 and Whitewater circa 2012.  But both of these teams had climbed into the top 10 by the end of the regular season, with Otterbein at #6 and the Warhawks at #8 in the final poll.  Usually the misses/oversights blink like a beacon as the year unfolds, and are more or less adjusted for come tournament time.  This year, rather than progress, the pollsters regressed and were well off even as late as Week 13.  Which is not a slam, btw -- my rankings would have looked even worse.  I think we've never seen anything like the parity and fluidity of this year.

Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Titan Q on March 11, 2018, 09:00:42 PM
I just booked my airfare for Salem this weekend.  Wouldn't miss it.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 11, 2018, 09:09:35 PM
So the pre-tourney poll is the last regular season poll before the tourney? Or pre-season poll?
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 11, 2018, 09:13:48 PM
I only looked at the Benedictine note... yeah, they were voted pretty highly headed into the final four... the graph says "no votes."

So... was the table a pre-season one that was used? Or the Week 13 poll? It says pre-tourney, but not sure all that info is right.

Another incorrect example, UMHB was getting no votes leading into the tournament that year... they were NOT part of the ORV.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 11, 2018, 10:38:52 PM
It's actually the pre-season poll. I inserted the wrong table. Sorry about that. I'll try to find the right one.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 11, 2018, 11:23:01 PM
I ran the numbers for the last three completed seasons, and the results are even more dramatic as to what an outlier 2018 is!

2017:  #1, #3, ORV, ORV    Total points 1227
2016:  #2, #4, #7, #15         "      "      1849
2015:  #4, #6, #8, #9           "      "      1847

2018:  #24, ORV, no votes, no votes    Total points  158
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 12, 2018, 12:54:53 AM
I'm now heading to bed, but added three more years of FF and final pretourney poll:

2014:  #3, #5, #7, #9         Total points  1945
2013:  #1, #2, #3, no votes    "      "       1789
2012:  #3, #5, #8, ORV          "      "       1515

Compared to 2018 (zero top ten, 1 ranked #24, 1 ORV, and 2 no votes), the previous six years had 19 top ten, 1 ranked #15, 3 ORVs, and one no votes.  2018 was not just weird; it entered The Twilight Zone! :o
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: fantastic50 on March 12, 2018, 08:05:59 AM
I know Wooster leads the active tournament streak list at 16, but who else has a lengthy run going? What about streaks of (getting a berth and) winning at least one tournament game?
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Mike Rejniak on March 12, 2018, 11:35:02 AM
​Dear D3 Faithful ;D,
     I have read many of your posts throughout the years and even met some of you in person, but for those who I haven't met, let me introduce myself: my name is Michael Rejniak and I have spent over 14 years coaching Division 3 basketball and love what our division has done and continues to do for  the sport of basketball. One of the greatest things about Division 3 basketball is the brotherhood that we all have with one another (coaches and players alike). My wish is to showcase the talents of D3 on a national stage in The Basketball Tournament (TBT).  You may have heard me speak about this on the Hoopsville Marathon with Dave McHugh of D3hoops.com (at the 6:11 mark). The TBT is a national tournament that is televised in July/August on ESPN after the NBA season is over. My goal is to put forth an all-star D3 team (current players are ineligible) and have them compete in this tournament to take on Former D1 / semi-pro's to prove that D3 deserves the same respect as other NCAA divisions. The team is mostly complete with former student-athletes from all over the country competing. Once the roster is complete we will be sure to release it through d3hoops. Former Babson College National Champion Matthew Droney '17 will also be assisting me on this journey.

How YOU can help our former elite D3 basketball players

While the end prize of this tournament is a monetary prize, being a D3-lifer, the goal is not the money (we all know that's not why we get into coaching), the goal is to bring an end to the stigma of Division 3 basketball, an awareness of how talented our student-athletes are and that we can compete (and win) against the best. We do need to raise funds for an entry fee, travel, meal and housing expenses for the athletes. In order to do this, we are conducting a crowd-funding campaign through GoFundMe to help make this a reality. These athletes need your support! Just think -- if every Division 3 school donated just $10, we will have raised over $4,000!!!! The link to the GoFundMe Page is below and please SPREAD THE WORD and email me with any questions/concerns at WeAreD3TBT@gmail.com. Thank you in advance for your support and Dave and I look forward to this "D3 Dream Team" taking the court this summer.-Mike Rejniak

Support "We Are D3" In The TBT
https://www.gofundme.com/WeAreD3TBT (https://www.gofundme.com/WeAreD3TBT)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 12, 2018, 04:25:18 PM
So I heard the men's NIT is going to four 10-minute quarters. Is that up for discussion again for future seasons?
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: smedindy on March 12, 2018, 06:56:31 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 12, 2018, 04:25:18 PM
So I heard the men's NIT is going to four 10-minute quarters. Is that up for discussion again for future seasons?

Yes, they usually try these rules in the NIT now and then see how they work.

They used to dole out these experiments to conferences. I remember the Big East having six fouls at one point, and some other leagues tried various shot clocks and I think even three point distances.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 12, 2018, 07:34:49 PM
They also said they were moving the 3 pt line back.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 12, 2018, 09:23:49 PM
Quote from: smedindy on March 12, 2018, 06:56:31 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 12, 2018, 04:25:18 PM
So I heard the men's NIT is going to four 10-minute quarters. Is that up for discussion again for future seasons?

Yes, they usually try these rules in the NIT now and then see how they work.

They used to dole out these experiments to conferences. I remember the Big East having six fouls at one point, and some other leagues tried various shot clocks and I think even three point distances.

I think they are doing the conferences and preseason stuff less often now. Just a gut feeling, but I think there was probably some frustrations with playing one set of rules to start the season and then shifting back to the others. I believe they are just testing things in the NIT now.

That said, not sure these rules will be changed for another season. We just started the two-season rules-cycle. Very rarely are major rules put into place in the middle (i.e. before next season). Don't get me wrong, I will be ALL for it if they did go to quarters as soon as next season. :)

The are going with quarters, international three-point line (I think that is the distance), and 20-second rest on offensive rebounds (i.e. instead of going to 30, they will reset to 20 when a team gets an offensive board).
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 12, 2018, 10:32:06 PM
Adding three more years to make it an even decade (final regular season poll for FF teams):

2011:  #2, #4, #5, #8                   Total points = 2163
2010:  #2, #3, #5, #16                     "      "         1904
2009:  #2, #6, #23, ORV                   "      "         1170

2009-2017:  Top Ten = 28, Lower Top 25 = 3,  ORV = 4,  no votes = 1   Average total points = 1712

2018:             "    "    = 0,  Lower Top 25 = 1,  ORV = 1, no votes = 2                 total points =  158

(Incidentally, note that my earlier guesstimate of at least 2 top ten teams in the FF was a bit low: for the nine years prior to this one there were over THREE top ten teams per year.)

Why do I hear the theme to The Twilight Zone every time I look at this year's FF? 8-)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: sac on March 12, 2018, 11:15:25 PM
Quote from: fantastic50 on March 12, 2018, 08:05:59 AM
I know Wooster leads the active tournament streak list at 16, but who else has a lengthy run going? What about streaks of (getting a berth and) winning at least one tournament game?

With the St. Thomas streak coming to an end this year.  I think you're probably only going to find max 4 or 5 year runs out there now.  A lot of D3's highest profile programs have missed the tournament in recent seasons.

I would say Augustana is maybe next at 5

Whitworth?
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 12, 2018, 11:18:58 PM

I keep a list of teams who've won a game in the tournament.  A lot of longish streaks ended this year, but Emory has the current active streak at 6 straight years with a tourney win.  Augustana is second at five.

Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: kiltedbryan on March 13, 2018, 01:23:42 PM
Quote from: fantastic50 on March 12, 2018, 08:05:59 AM
I know Wooster leads the active tournament streak list at 16, but who else has a lengthy run going? What about streaks of (getting a berth and) winning at least one tournament game?

Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 12, 2018, 11:18:58 PM

I keep a list of teams who've won a game in the tournament.  A lot of longish streaks ended this year, but Emory has the current active streak at 6 straight years with a tourney win.  Augustana is second at five.

Combining these two thoughts: Wooster has won at least one game in 14 of these 16 consecutive tournament appearances. Their only first round losses occurred last year to North Central, which snapped an eight-year win streak from '09-'16, and in 2008 to eventual champion Wash U, which snapped a five-year win streak from '03-'07.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: (509)Rat on March 13, 2018, 03:48:59 PM
Whitworth was in their 12th straight tournament this year. Unfortunately they've been trending in the wrong direction in terms of winning at least one game in the tournament as they have a 3 year streak of not winning a tournament game going at the moment
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: AllStar on March 16, 2018, 01:31:47 AM
Good luck to the four teams in action Friday!
(https://i.imgur.com/OpcEgZi.png)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 16, 2018, 10:35:45 AM
So one of the Oshkosh articles said they are having a viewing party for their game. Are the semis on an actual tv channel or just webcast on the NCAA page? I presume the Final is on the college sports network again?
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: AndOne on March 16, 2018, 05:35:54 PM
Semis are just on the NCAA webcast. Final is on CBS Sports Network. 🏀
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 16, 2018, 05:41:48 PM
UW-Oshkosh leads Ramapo at the half 34-27
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 16, 2018, 06:48:16 PM
UW-Oshkosh 73
Ramapo 57

It was a five-point game with six minutes remaining, but UWO found another gear and ran away with a 16-2 flurry to turn it into a walkover.

Big games from Fravert, Flynn, and Wittchow.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 16, 2018, 06:48:47 PM
UW-Oshkosh keeps Ramapo at bay leading by 2 or 3 possessions most of the way before pulling away in the end 73-57
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 16, 2018, 08:11:09 PM
Springfield with a run at the end of the half to take the lead and it's 36-33 Pride at halftime
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 16, 2018, 08:12:01 PM
Parity!
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 16, 2018, 09:10:27 PM
Exciting finish coming... 73-73 with half a minute left
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 16, 2018, 09:15:16 PM
Springfield fail to get a shot off before the shot clock... Nebraska Wesleyan get the ball with 3.7 left... not a great shot at the buzzer and they're headed to OT.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 16, 2018, 09:15:21 PM
NebWes and Springfield will go to overtime, tied 73-73.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 16, 2018, 09:16:56 PM
The Prairie Wolves have shot a crappy 9-16 from the free throw line tonight, but it was Springfield's missing two one-and-one front ends in the last 71 seconds that was instrumental in helping NWU to come back and force the overtime.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 16, 2018, 09:22:39 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 16, 2018, 09:16:56 PM
The Prairie Wolves have shot a crappy 9-16 from the free throw line tonight, but it was Springfield's missing two one-and-one front ends in the last 71 seconds that was instrumental in helping NWU to come back and force the overtime.
NWU with a lot of offensive rebounds in the 2nd half as well.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 16, 2018, 09:26:02 PM
OT was all Prairie Wolves. 90-78 final. Was an exciting game up until the last few minutes.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 16, 2018, 09:26:15 PM
The clock strikes midnight for Cinderella, as Springfield falls in OT to Nebraska Wesleyan, 90-78.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: 4samuy on March 16, 2018, 09:30:29 PM
Imho, no surprise that the teams who beat Whitman and Augustana in the elite 8 advance to the finals.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 16, 2018, 09:31:31 PM
Jake Ross certainly made his case for d3hoops.com POY, as he had a 21-9-7 night in a losing case for the Pride.

Of the 225 player minutes tonight for Nebraska Wesleyan, 207 of them were played by the starters. Cooper Cook and Jack Hiller played all 45 minutes, Nate Schimonitz played 43, and Ryan Garver played 41.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 16, 2018, 09:32:49 PM
Quote from: 4samuy on March 16, 2018, 09:30:29 PM
Imho, no surprise that the teams who beat Whitman and Augustana in the elite 8 advance to the finals.

I typically root for the midwestern teams in the Final Four, so I was pleased to see this happen. Still, I have a lot of respect for Springfield and Ramapo.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: 4samuy on March 16, 2018, 09:37:56 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 16, 2018, 09:31:31 PM
Jake Ross certainly made his case for d3hoops.com POY, as he had a 21-9-7 night in a losing case for the Pride.

Of the 225 player minutes tonight for Nebraska Wesleyan, 207 of them were played by the starters. Cooper Cook and Jack Hiller played all 45 minutes, Nate Schimonitz played 43, and Ryan Garver played 41.

I think Ross is a great player.  Part of his greatness is that he is able to be productive for 35 minutes per game.  That is a ton of minutes.  With that comes quality statistics. Unbelievable stamina and toughness.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: AllStar on March 16, 2018, 09:40:02 PM
One more game to go...will be interesting!  Great runs for Ramapo and Springfield.
(https://i.imgur.com/vSfSAf6.png)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 16, 2018, 09:43:23 PM
Well it will be the title game I expected all week, but that second semi was NOT what I expected!  For much of the game Neb Wes couldn't have put up 130 points on the Little Sisters of the Poor, much less on the (then) #1 team in D3!  (Springfield no doubt had something to do with that, but it sure looked to me more like bad offense than good defense.)  But the last four minutes of OT - THAT is what I was expecting! ;D

Tomorrow night should be a great game.  Alas, I have a long-standing prior engagement (who schedules a D3 title game for St. Patrick's Day?!), and will miss most if not all of it.  (Our group is getting damned old; even on St. Patrick's Day I'll probably be home by 9!  At least I'll miss the WORST of the drunken driving crowd - though back when I was teaching, a totally soused student for a noon class was not unusual!)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: 4samuy on March 16, 2018, 09:46:13 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 16, 2018, 09:32:49 PM
Quote from: 4samuy on March 16, 2018, 09:30:29 PM
Imho, no surprise that the teams who beat Whitman and Augustana in the elite 8 advance to the finals.

I typically root for the midwestern teams in the Final Four, so I was pleased to see this happen. Still, I have a lot of respect for Springfield and Ramapo.

It's funny because when I don't have a particular horse in the race, I tend to root for the perceived underdogs.  Do I think Augustana and Whitman are two of the top teams in the country?  Yes I do.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 16, 2018, 10:11:34 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 16, 2018, 09:43:23 PM
Well it will be the title game I expected all week, but that second semi was NOT what I expected!  For much of the game Neb Wes couldn't have put up 130 points on the Little Sisters of the Poor, much less on the (then) #1 team in D3!  (Springfield no doubt had something to do with that, but it sure looked to me more like bad offense than good defense.)  But the last four minutes of OT - THAT is what I was expecting! ;D

Tomorrow night should be a great game.  Alas, I have a long-standing prior engagement (who schedules a D3 title game for St. Patrick's Day?!), and will miss most if not all of it.  (Our group is getting damned old; even on St. Patrick's Day I'll probably be home by 9!  At least I'll miss the WORST of the drunken driving crowd - though back when I was teaching, a totally soused student for a noon class was not unusual!)

At least you aren't going on a bike ride.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 16, 2018, 10:18:10 PM
LOL! Good one, Tom!
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 16, 2018, 10:41:41 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 16, 2018, 09:43:23 PM
Well it will be the title game I expected all week, but that second semi was NOT what I expected!  For much of the game Neb Wes couldn't have put up 130 points on the Little Sisters of the Poor, much less on the (then) #1 team in D3!  (Springfield no doubt had something to do with that, but it sure looked to me more like bad offense than good defense.)  But the last four minutes of OT - THAT is what I was expecting! ;D

Tomorrow night should be a great game.  Alas, I have a long-standing prior engagement (who schedules a D3 title game for St. Patrick's Day?!), and will miss most if not all of it.  (Our group is getting damned old; even on St. Patrick's Day I'll probably be home by 9!  At least I'll miss the WORST of the drunken driving crowd - though back when I was teaching, a totally soused student for a noon class was not unusual!)
Have a bonny old time!   ;)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 16, 2018, 11:35:43 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 16, 2018, 10:11:34 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 16, 2018, 09:43:23 PM
Well it will be the title game I expected all week, but that second semi was NOT what I expected!  For much of the game Neb Wes couldn't have put up 130 points on the Little Sisters of the Poor, much less on the (then) #1 team in D3!  (Springfield no doubt had something to do with that, but it sure looked to me more like bad offense than good defense.)  But the last four minutes of OT - THAT is what I was expecting! ;D

Tomorrow night should be a great game.  Alas, I have a long-standing prior engagement (who schedules a D3 title game for St. Patrick's Day?!), and will miss most if not all of it.  (Our group is getting damned old; even on St. Patrick's Day I'll probably be home by 9!  At least I'll miss the WORST of the drunken driving crowd - though back when I was teaching, a totally soused student for a noon class was not unusual!)

At least you aren't going on a bike ride.

Now, now.  It had been a nasty winter, it was a glorious day, and Mrs. Y is MUCH more of a bike fan than a bball fan - she deserved it for even coming to Salem.  Still, I did miss a helluva game!
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 16, 2018, 11:43:56 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 16, 2018, 10:41:41 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 16, 2018, 09:43:23 PM
Well it will be the title game I expected all week, but that second semi was NOT what I expected!  For much of the game Neb Wes couldn't have put up 130 points on the Little Sisters of the Poor, much less on the (then) #1 team in D3!  (Springfield no doubt had something to do with that, but it sure looked to me more like bad offense than good defense.)  But the last four minutes of OT - THAT is what I was expecting! ;D

Tomorrow night should be a great game.  Alas, I have a long-standing prior engagement (who schedules a D3 title game for St. Patrick's Day?!), and will miss most if not all of it.  (Our group is getting damned old; even on St. Patrick's Day I'll probably be home by 9!  At least I'll miss the WORST of the drunken driving crowd - though back when I was teaching, a totally soused student for a noon class was not unusual!)
Have a bonny old time!   ;)

Thanks, Ralph.  The game starts an hour earlier than I had remembered.  Unless it goes multiple OTs , I'll probably miss the whole thing.

I had a bully of a PE instructor in high school from whom I had to put up with "Bonnie Prince Charlie" taunts.  Having positive wishes by a variant on my name is a welcome thing! ;D  +k
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 17, 2018, 12:07:04 AM
Perhaps parity is not just a D3 thing.  D1 had the first 16 over 1 game ever tonight, even more remarkable since UVA was the overall #! seed.  UM-Baltimore County destroyed them by 20! :o

Three cheers for the 'little guys'!! ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 17, 2018, 12:24:56 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 17, 2018, 12:07:04 AM
Perhaps parity is not just a D3 thing.  D1 had the first 16 over 1 game ever tonight, even more remarkable since UVA was the overall #! seed.  UM-Baltimore County destroyed them by 20! :o

Three cheers for the 'little guys'!! ;D ;D ;D
Don't you know that the ACC-haters of the world and especially those who live in ACC country had fun with that game!
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 17, 2018, 12:32:51 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 17, 2018, 12:24:56 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 17, 2018, 12:07:04 AM
Perhaps parity is not just a D3 thing.  D1 had the first 16 over 1 game ever tonight, even more remarkable since UVA was the overall #! seed.  UM-Baltimore County destroyed them by 20! :o

Three cheers for the 'little guys'!! ;D ;D ;D
Don't you know that the ACC-haters of the world and especially those who live in ACC country had fun with that game!

Interesting that the debate over greatest upset of all time will now probably involve Virginia as the loser both times!  Is it UMBC over Virginia or Chaminade over Virginia?

Are there any other plausible candidates?
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Titan Q on March 17, 2018, 12:34:59 PM
Whether UW-Oshkosh or Nebraska Wesleyan, this will be the 30th national title won by a school in the "midwest" states in 44 years of the Division III MBB tournament. Titles have come from:

- Wisconsin 12
- Illinois 6
- Ohio 4
- Michigan 2
- Missouri 2
- Minnesota 2
- Indiana 1

After tonight, 9 of the last 11 titles will have come from this part of the country.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: rlgyank on March 17, 2018, 12:53:36 PM
Does anyone know if there is somewhere that has the video of the press conference's that happened after the semi final games? Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 17, 2018, 01:51:06 PM
Quote from: rlgyank on March 17, 2018, 12:53:36 PM
Does anyone know if there is somewhere that has the video of the press conference's that happened after the semi final games? Thanks in advance.

I assume ncaa.com has them somewhere, but I'm not exactly sure where to look.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 17, 2018, 02:03:14 PM
Maybe go to YouTube?
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: AndOne on March 17, 2018, 02:42:02 PM
Aside from Ramapo and Springfield fans, I think yesterday's games finished as most people thought they would. Others may disagree, but it seemed like both games were pretty choppy. Not a lot of smooth flow offensively, and players often looked lost on the defensive end. Because of my advanced age and frequent forgetfulness, I'm glad Greek Tragedy reminded me I graduated from NWU so I'll know who to root for tonight. 😏
I did think that of the four teams yesterday, Oshkosh looked the best.
I'm worried about how the boys from Lincoln are going to handle their bigs and interior game. Perhaps they'll counter with a barrage of threes as there isn't much doubt that many missiles will be launched from long range tonight. Also, with the Wolves short rotation, and several players playing the whole or almost whole game, I hope their dens were comfortable last night and that they slept well.
Hoping for a close, well played game with the Walnut & Bronze going home to Nebraska.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 17, 2018, 02:54:43 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on March 17, 2018, 12:34:59 PM
Whether UW-Oshkosh or Nebraska Wesleyan, this will be the 30th national title won by a school in the "midwest" states in 44 years of the Division III MBB tournament. Titles have come from:

- Wisconsin 12
- Illinois 6
- Ohio 4
- Michigan 2
- Missouri 2
- Minnesota 2
- Indiana 1

After tonight, 9 of the last 11 titles will have come from this part of the country.

Bob's doing his best to make sure that he cuts down on his holiday season mail flow by not getting any Christmas cards from NESCAC fans. ;)

(But, hey, I've pointed out this same tendency in past years on d3boards.com. As I said here yesterday, I typically cheer for the midwestern teams in the Final Four ... and I'm usually pleased by the results.)

Quote from: AndOne on March 17, 2018, 02:42:02 PM
Hoping for a close, well played game with the Walnut & Bronze going home to Nebraska.

It would be the farthest west that the Walnut & Bronze has ever gone ... although the same can't be said of The BeltTM, of course, of which NWU is currently in at least overnight possession after taking ItTM from Springfield. The BeltTM has actually been to the West Coast more than once. (https://www.zeemaps.com/view?group=2909059&x=-93.114773&y=40.540988&z=14)

Nebraska Wesleyan would also be the first of the so-called "island schools" of D3 to win the national championship, so I'm sure that the Prairie Wolves are being cheered on in such distant precincts as Presque Isle, Maine; Hancock, Michigan; Santa Cruz, California; Colorado Springs, Colorado; and Abilene, Texas ... eh, Ralph? ;)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dutch Calvinist Reformer on March 17, 2018, 05:58:57 PM
 ??? ??? ???  CBS Sports Network...not in my Directv package.  Anyone have a password or shortcut?
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 17, 2018, 06:49:49 PM
Nebraska Wesleyan leads at the half, 45-43. NWU's only lead of the half came on a Schimonitz buzzer-beating trey.

This is a great game if you like treys. The two teams are a combined 18-28 from beyond the arc.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 17, 2018, 06:50:24 PM
Been a good back and forth battle. Oshkosh has led most of the way but the Prairie Wolves always respond. NWU with a 3 at the buzzer to take a 45-43 lead at halftime
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: TheOsprey on March 17, 2018, 07:00:39 PM
Halftime observations--  UWO offense for now is the three point shot.  I don't see that percentage staying at its current rate.  If it does, they probably win.  The inside game is absent.

NB Wesleyan has been running their sets and they are getting easier shots inside the paint.  NWU has about two fouls and Oshkosh has near ten.  Foul trouble will be an issue with the short bench.  Refs are letting them play for the most part.

Good luck to both teams and their fans.  Should be close.  OT??
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Titan Q on March 17, 2018, 07:21:15 PM
Quote from: Dutch Calvinist Reformer on March 17, 2018, 05:58:57 PM
??? ??? ???  CBS Sports Network...not in my Directv package.  Anyone have a password or shortcut?

It's on my Direct TV - channel 221.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 17, 2018, 07:33:47 PM
http://www.cbssports.com/cbs-sports-network/
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 17, 2018, 07:41:01 PM
The Titans have cooled off from beyond the arc; the Prairie Wolves haven't.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 17, 2018, 07:53:22 PM
It's been the opposite of the first half... Nebraska Wesleyan has led most of the way but the Titans keeping it within reach. 75-72 NWU with 2 minutes left
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 17, 2018, 07:56:23 PM
Schmonitz is one of the most cold-blooded players I've seen in many, many years.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 17, 2018, 07:58:29 PM
Nebraska Wesleyan 78
UW-Oshkosh 72

Congratulations to the Prairie Wolves upon winning their first-ever Big Doorstop.

Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 17, 2018, 07:59:14 PM
Congrats to the Prairie Wolves. 78-72 final
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 17, 2018, 08:00:41 PM
Congrats as well to the IIAC, which won its first-ever D3 title as well in its first-ever Final Four appearance.

Coming into this tournament, the record for three-pointers made in a tourney belonged to the '93 Augustana team that made 59 treys.

In this tournament, UW-Oshkosh made 80 treys and Nebraska Wesleyan made 73.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: dunkin3117 on March 17, 2018, 08:01:27 PM
Wait, what??? A team from the mediocre IIAC won the title. Unreal.

Congrats to Nebraska Wesleyan, way to represent your school and your LEAGUE.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 17, 2018, 08:02:34 PM
As I said the other day, you people should've invited NWU into your league thirty years ago. ;)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 17, 2018, 08:06:45 PM
Cooper Cook the Tournament MVP
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 17, 2018, 08:08:52 PM
Well-deserved, although I think that they could've given it to Nate Schimonitz or Jack Hiller as well. NWU has so much balance that it's hard to sort out the individual accolades sometimes.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: TheOsprey on March 17, 2018, 08:13:49 PM
Great way to end a great tournament.  Congratulations to NWU!! 

I cannot understand how UWO did not win the WIAC. Great season.

Would not be surprised to see a rematch in this game next year.  Augie and MIT could have a say.

God I live D-3!!

Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: TheOsprey on March 17, 2018, 08:17:59 PM
IL-Chicago to the Sweet Sixteen.  March Madness continues!!
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: NCF on March 17, 2018, 08:20:12 PM
Quote from: TheOsprey on March 17, 2018, 08:17:59 PM
IL-Chicago to the Sweet Sixteen.  March Madness continues!!

What a shot to win it!! 8-)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: AndOne on March 17, 2018, 08:22:46 PM
Congrats to my alma mater, the Nebraska Wesleyan Prairie Wolves (née Plainsmen) on their National Championship!  ;D
The green beer will be flowing freely amid the numerous celebrations which will no doubt be taking place tonight around the NWU campus, and at various quaffing establishments in the Pleasure Capital of the Plains, otherwise known as Lincoln.  8-)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 17, 2018, 08:49:51 PM
I enjoyed PBP man Lincoln Rose in the postgame show saying that working with Dave and Pat was the coleman-nation of his play-by-play assignments this year. ;)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: AllStar on March 17, 2018, 08:55:09 PM
Congratulations Nebraska Wesleyan!
(https://i.imgur.com/nmmai4K.png)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 17, 2018, 10:19:43 PM
Quote from: AndOne on March 17, 2018, 08:22:46 PM
Congrats to my alma mater, the Nebraska Wesleyan Prairie Wolves (née Plainsmen) on their National Championship!  ;D
The green beer will be flowing freely amid the numerous celebrations which will no doubt be taking place tonight around the NWU campus, and at various quaffing establishments in the Pleasure Capital of the Plains, otherwise known as Lincoln.  8-)

You went to Nebraska Wesleyan?  ;D :P ;)

Congrats to the Prairie Wolves.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: AndOne on March 17, 2018, 11:08:52 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 17, 2018, 10:19:43 PM
Quote from: AndOne on March 17, 2018, 08:22:46 PM
Congrats to my alma mater, the Nebraska Wesleyan Prairie Wolves (née Plainsmen) on their National Championship!  ;D
The green beer will be flowing freely amid the numerous celebrations which will no doubt be taking place tonight around the NWU campus, and at various quaffing establishments in the Pleasure Capital of the Plains, otherwise known as Lincoln.  8-)

You went to Nebraska Wesleyan?  ;D :P ;)

Congrats to the Prairie Wolves.

Somehow I knew that question was coming sooner or later, AND who it would be coming from! 
::)  :-*  😏
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 17, 2018, 11:11:36 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 17, 2018, 02:54:43 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on March 17, 2018, 12:34:59 PM
Whether UW-Oshkosh or Nebraska Wesleyan, this will be the 30th national title won by a school in the "midwest" states in 44 years of the Division III MBB tournament. Titles have come from:

- Wisconsin 12
- Illinois 6
- Ohio 4
- Michigan 2
- Missouri 2
- Minnesota 2
- Indiana 1

After tonight, 9 of the last 11 titles will have come from this part of the country.

Bob's doing his best to make sure that he cuts down on his holiday season mail flow by not getting any Christmas cards from NESCAC fans. ;)

(But, hey, I've pointed out this same tendency in past years on d3boards.com. As I said here yesterday, I typically cheer for the midwestern teams in the Final Four ... and I'm usually pleased by the results.)

Quote from: AndOne on March 17, 2018, 02:42:02 PM
Hoping for a close, well played game with the Walnut & Bronze going home to Nebraska.

It would be the farthest west that the Walnut & Bronze has ever gone ... although the same can't be said of The BeltTM, of course, of which NWU is currently in at least overnight possession after taking ItTM from Springfield. The BeltTM has actually been to the West Coast more than once. (https://www.zeemaps.com/view?group=2909059&x=-93.114773&y=40.540988&z=14)

Nebraska Wesleyan would also be the first of the so-called "island schools" of D3 to win the national championship, so I'm sure that the Prairie Wolves are being cheered on in such distant precincts as Presque Isle, Maine; Hancock, Michigan; Santa Cruz, California; Colorado Springs, Colorado; and Abilene, Texas ... eh, Ralph? ;)
...and Alpine TX or even the entire West Coast.  I think that any team that must fly for the first 2 weekends is an "island" team for practical purposes.

I look back at all of those Pool B posts about NebWes. Now they have made it!
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 17, 2018, 11:16:13 PM
Quote from: dunkin3117 on March 17, 2018, 08:01:27 PM
Wait, what??? A team from the mediocre IIAC won the title. Unreal.

Congrats to Nebraska Wesleyan, way to represent your school and your LEAGUE.

Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 17, 2018, 08:02:34 PM
As I said the other day, you people should've invited NWU into your league thirty years ago. ;)

Tongue-in-cheek  and mild ribbing... or an outstanding team from a mediocre league?    ;D ;) 8-)  I have been a big proponent of the conferences and I am glad that Neb Wes was accepted by the IIAC, even without a travel partner from Nebraska, e.g., a Doane, etc.

Congrats Neb Wes and to the IIAC
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 17, 2018, 11:24:45 PM
How about this?

1996, 1st year in Salem -- Rowan: Brown and Gold
2018, last year in Salem -- Neb Wes: Brown, Gold and Black

After all those years of purple ...
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 18, 2018, 09:38:39 AM
Interesting point, Ralph. I hadn't thought about the color connection between Rowan and NebWes, even though Pat and Dave kept going on in yesterday's broadcast about the purple-clad teams that have dominated in Salem over the past two decades.

The reason why I keep bringing up, half tongue-in-cheek, that the IIAC should've invited NebWes into the league three decades ago is because that four-year span in the mid-'80s in which the Plainsmen (as they were known then) reached the Final Four three times took place in an era in which NebWes was an independent, having left the Nebraska Intercollegiate Athletic Conference (precursor to the NAIA league, the GPAC, which NebWes recently left in favor of the IIAC) to which it would later return. It would've been the perfect opportunity for the ever-woebegone IIAC to invite NWU into the fold.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Titan Q on March 18, 2018, 10:03:34 AM
National titles by current region...

-Central = 20

-Great Lakes = 7

-Mid-Atlantic = 4

-Northeast = 4

-East = 3

-West = 3

-Atlantic = 1

-South = 1

(Lemoyne-Owen, 1975, not in D3 now...not included here.)
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 18, 2018, 03:31:17 PM
Expanding upon Bob's chart:


Region  # of titles  Most recent FF  Most recent title
Central    20    2018    2015
Great Lakes      7    2011    2002
Middle Atlantic      4    2016    2001
Northeast      4    2018    2017
East      3    2005    1990
West      3    2018    2018
Atlantic      1    2018    1996
South      1    2015    2006
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: rlgyank on March 18, 2018, 08:49:07 PM
Quote from: rlgyank on March 17, 2018, 12:53:36 PM
Does anyone know if there is somewhere that has the video of the press conference's that happened after the semi final games? Thanks in advance.

To answer my own question, and if anyone else cares, here is a link to the press conferences from the final 4.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Dn5J5l5ipwRWS0ff9cjwLp_OGCliRZZN
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Rofrog on March 20, 2018, 02:15:29 AM
Congratulations to Nebraska Wesleyan last time i heard that name was 1988 final four.Yes and I was there.University of Scranton played Ohio Wesleyan for the National title.But Congratulation on a stellar year.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: AndOne on March 20, 2018, 12:00:57 PM
It seems that in the locker room at Platteville before the Whitman game, NWU Coach Dale Wellman wrote a message on the board;

To be the best, we have to beat the best.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 22, 2018, 12:05:15 PM
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.psbin.com%2Fo%2F3%2F2rl1ni3j1za5w6%2FHoopsville-3-22-18.jpg&hash=6ac6c4ab5f0e502c4567955de394f1478a9241e1)

The 2017-18 season is now complete. Congratulations to Nebraska Wesleyan and Amherst on their Division III national championships!

However, there is still some business to take care of ... we need to wrap up the season on Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com).

Tune in Thursday, March 22 as Dave McHugh is joined by a few guests as we look back at the Championship Weekends along with looking ahead at what should be a busy off-season and exciting 2018-19 season.

Plus, it what may be surprising to some and expected from others, we talk to the now-retiring Mark Edwards of WashU men's basketball. We chat about 37 incredible years and why he feels it is time to walk off the court for good.

Hoopsville is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. You can watch the show LIVE starting at 2:00 p.m. ET on Thursday in the video player above.

If you have questions, be sure to email them to hoopsville@d3hoops.com or interact with the show via the social media avenues.

Guests include (in order of appearance; subject to change):
- Mark Edwards, No. 15 WashU men's head coach
- Dale Wellman, No. 1 Nebraska Wesleyan head coach (from Sunday's postgame show)
- Tim Fitzpatrick, Coast Guard AD and men's basketball committee chair (from Sunday's postgame show)
- Gordon Mann interview with Emma McCarthy, No. 1 Amherst sophomore forward
- Max Pearce, SUNY Purchase Senior guard participating in the State Farm College Slam Dunk Championship in San Antonio
- Nathan Dennison, VP of Sales at Allen County War Memorial Coliseum, Fort Wayne, Ind. (from Sunday's postgame show)

If you enjoy the show via the podcasts instead, you can get access to them or subscribe one of the three following ways (click on the images when necessary):
SoundCloud: www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdnak1.psbin.com%2Fimg%2Fmw%3D150%2Fmh%3D39%2Fcr%3Dn%2Fd%3D34qaz%2Ffrghgxk7kqd172nn.jpg&hash=6ef41ddb2f5e1c3420db88961e4f9e8a76ca72de) (https://apple.co/2E9e0Bl)
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdnak1.psbin.com%2Fimg%2Fmw%3D150%2Fmh%3D55%2Fcr%3Dn%2Fd%3D34qc6%2Fnv94ufhrqbnvt3d4.jpg&hash=c9b51356cf30d2646f6d744dc0ce47b431cec05e) (http://bit.ly/2rFfr7Z)

Don't forget you can always interact with us:
Website: www.d3hoopsville.com
Twitter: @d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) or #Hoopsville
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Email: hoopsville@d3hoops.com
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Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 17, 2018, 01:42:22 PM
We can stop worrying about tournament host opportunities being taken from some schools for items out of their control now: http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/ncaa-supports-federal-sports-wagering-regulation?division=d3
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Smitty Oom on May 21, 2018, 08:37:34 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 17, 2018, 01:42:22 PM
We can stop worrying about tournament host opportunities being taken from some schools for items out of their control now: http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/ncaa-supports-federal-sports-wagering-regulation?division=d3

Will there ever be a point when I can put legally put money down on who is going to win the D3 national championship at a Sports Book? Thanks for taking my call, I will hang up and listen...
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 21, 2018, 08:57:13 PM
Basically... that's probably up to the sports book. Let's be honest, if they cared they could have offered that already.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: nescac1 on May 22, 2018, 11:30:05 AM
My guess is, the amount it would cost sports books to find sufficient expertise to accurately set D3 lines is not worth it given the very small amount of action that would be placed on such lines.  Just wouldn't be a very profitable enterprise ...
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Greek Tragedy on May 23, 2018, 06:45:20 AM
They come here and they've probably come to the right place.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 23, 2018, 06:50:46 PM
Too busy right now getting ready for an AFL game (tune into CBS Sports Network at 7:30 PM ET [Albany v Baltimore] and you can hear me in the background as PA Announcer)... but wanted to share this quickly: https://www.gallaudetathletics.com/news/2017-18/atkinson-ncaambchair

Sam Atkinson has been elected as next year's men's basketball committee chair. He is headed into only his third year on the committee. Jarrod would have been a terrific pick as well, but committee went a different direction. Sam has done great for the committee in his first two years. Looking forward to working with him and Jarrod this season.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: rlgyank on July 26, 2018, 12:25:03 PM
Just to get some talk going, for the people that have been watching D3 basketball for awhile now, how did you think the officiating was for the 2018 tournament as compared to prior years.? It was the first year of having someone specifically overseeing the officials at the D3 level. As a follower of Nebraska Wesleyan, I have not followed the D3 level that closely until the last couple of years. I thought the officiating was pretty good, and I am not saying that just because NWU won. Now I did not watch many games of the tournament that were not at the site that NWU was playing at, so I am mostly commenting on those 9 games. The officiating was certainly better than what I saw most of the regular season. Were there calls that I disagreed with, certainly, but there will always be some of those. Anyway, let me know what you think.
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 26, 2018, 01:50:32 PM
Quote from: rlgyank on July 26, 2018, 12:25:03 PM
Just to get some talk going, for the people that have been watching D3 basketball for awhile now, how did you think the officiating was for the 2018 tournament as compared to prior years.? It was the first year of having someone specifically overseeing the officials at the D3 level. As a follower of Nebraska Wesleyan, I have not followed the D3 level that closely until the last couple of years. I thought the officiating was pretty good, and I am not saying that just because NWU won. Now I did not watch many games of the tournament that were not at the site that NWU was playing at, so I am mostly commenting on those 9 games. The officiating was certainly better than what I saw most of the regular season. Were there calls that I disagreed with, certainly, but there will always be some of those. Anyway, let me know what you think.

I thought the officiating in Salem was more consistent than ever.  Those were the officials hand-picked by the director of officiating.  He did a wonderful job of traveling the country to evaluate in person and build relationships. 
Title: Re: 2018 NCAA Tournament
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 30, 2018, 03:23:58 PM
I thought officiating in the entire tournament, and especially in Salem, was far better than we have been used to. People will complain, but that's because the officiating at the conference levels still needs work - which is the next phase of the entire process.