FB: Empire 8

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Jonny Utah

Quote from: fisheralum91 on October 06, 2014, 07:42:45 AM
on to Cincinnati
.  Was at the patriots game last night and a guy was wearing a black shirt with white letters saying "on to Cincinnati".  Awesome shirt.

fisheralum91

Figured id lighten up a bit today  ;D

jknezek

#47507
Quote from: AUKaz00 on October 06, 2014, 09:55:53 AM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on October 04, 2014, 02:47:37 PM
There goes all of that talk of Fisher getting a number 1 seed.
Aweful

The good news is that next year the East will "get" a bracket built around them once Wesley joins our region.

What makes you think that? Wesley hasn't had a 1 seed all that often historically, although I believe they were a 1 seed in 2009 and 2006. Other than that, roughly speaking, they've been mostly a 2. I don't think it's a given they will be a 1 seed, although I do like their odds of having undefeated NJAC seasons the way the conference looks this year.

Further I just don't understand the fascination with having a bracket built around the region. Let it go. The playoffs aren't all that regional anymore and won't be unless the money dries up. Moving Wesley in doesn't mean anything for the "East" anymore than when the MAC was shifted from South to East.

And if you really want to stick a nail in this "regional" idea, according to TES, SJF is 294 miles from UMU. They are 400 miles from Wesley. UMU has a better claim to a regional tournament with SJF in it than Wesley does...

Pat Coleman

Quote from: middlerelief on October 06, 2014, 06:49:47 AM
boobs - even if sjf had won, it would have been possible for them to drop due to weak the wins have been and how strong the performance of the teams behind them season to date has been. jcu jumped over sjf two weeks ago, at least wartburg, and maybe hopkins would have lept over them as well - the quality of the wins is very debatable and was a topic on one of the around the nation columns - sjf lets up 37 pts to this year's version of salisbury when wesley held them to 3 - not a good showing for the program at all, and it wouldn't have been a good showing had they held them to say 31 and won either.

I don't think JHU would have jumped them. JHU hasn't really played anyone. They have already drifted really high.
Publisher. Questions? Check our FAQ for D3f, D3h.
Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

Bombers798891

Quote from: jknezek on October 06, 2014, 10:25:14 AM

Further I just don't understand the fascination with having a bracket built around the region. Let it go. The playoffs aren't all that regional anymore and won't be unless the money dries up. Moving Wesley in doesn't mean anything for the "East" anymore than when the MAC was shifted from South to East.


I think it has to do with avoiding a team like Mount/UMHB for an extra round, which hopefully allows a team to go a round deeper into the playoffs

jknezek

Quote from: Bombers798891 on October 06, 2014, 12:24:05 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 06, 2014, 10:25:14 AM

Further I just don't understand the fascination with having a bracket built around the region. Let it go. The playoffs aren't all that regional anymore and won't be unless the money dries up. Moving Wesley in doesn't mean anything for the "East" anymore than when the MAC was shifted from South to East.


I think it has to do with avoiding a team like Mount/UMHB for an extra round, which hopefully allows a team to go a round deeper into the playoffs

Interesting. The care isn't to actually be one of the best teams in the country, it's just to survive longer until facing one? I guess we all suffer from that desire. I know I did when W&L made the playoffs. Still, doesn't really say much about the quality of the team, simply that the inevitable was put off for another week.

Bombers798891

My E8 Power Rankings

1. Ithaca: I have a sneaking suspicion they'd lose to Fisher right now, but they're the only undefeated team in the conference, and, right now, that's enough. There's not as much separating them and Fisher as there is Fisher and Buffalo State

2. Fisher: The Salisbury curse continues. They are still the most talented team in the E8, IMO.

3. Buffalo State: I'm still not 100% on these guys, but they're 4-1, and you know they're just itching to take out IC. Big chance for a statement this week

4. Utica: I know, I'm surprised too. But I'm not really impressed with the middle of the pack in the E8, and given that Acevedo was out and the game was at Ithaca, they looked pretty good Saturday.

5. Salisbury: Probably going to pick up some steam as a dark horse as that triple option is clicking, but they've given up 32, 43, 32, and 34 points. Against a tough schedule, sure. But that's still not good.

6. Alfred: Turnovers, turnovers, turnovers. Until the Saxons teach their team to hang onto the ball, they're going to continue losing games they shouldn't. They've had 10 in their last three games.

7. Hartwick: Nice win over Alfred, but the Saxons still have the better resume IMO

8. Brockport: Wins over Oberlin and Cortland just do not look good

9. Frostburg: The defense was torched for some big plays, and the offense doesn't seem to have much

boobyhasgameyo

Quote from: Bombers798891 on October 06, 2014, 01:01:27 PM
My E8 Power Rankings

1. Ithaca: I have a sneaking suspicion they'd lose to Fisher right now, but they're the only undefeated team in the conference, and, right now, that's enough. There's not as much separating them and Fisher as there is Fisher and Buffalo State

2. Fisher: The Salisbury curse continues. They are still the most talented team in the E8, IMO.

3. Buffalo State: I'm still not 100% on these guys, but they're 4-1, and you know they're just itching to take out IC. Big chance for a statement this week

4. Utica: I know, I'm surprised too. But I'm not really impressed with the middle of the pack in the E8, and given that Acevedo was out and the game was at Ithaca, they looked pretty good Saturday.

5. Salisbury: Probably going to pick up some steam as a dark horse as that triple option is clicking, but they've given up 32, 43, 32, and 34 points. Against a tough schedule, sure. But that's still not good.

6. Alfred: Turnovers, turnovers, turnovers. Until the Saxons teach their team to hang onto the ball, they're going to continue losing games they shouldn't. They've had 10 in their last three games.

7. Hartwick: Nice win over Alfred, but the Saxons still have the better resume IMO

8. Brockport: Wins over Oberlin and Cortland just do not look good

9. Frostburg: The defense was torched for some big plays, and the offense doesn't seem to have much

Is it bad that I legitimately look forward to these rankings every week? 

No?  Ok, good. 

AUKaz00

Quote from: jknezek on October 06, 2014, 10:25:14 AM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on October 06, 2014, 09:55:53 AM
Quote from: fisheralum91 on October 04, 2014, 02:47:37 PM
There goes all of that talk of Fisher getting a number 1 seed.
Aweful

The good news is that next year the East will "get" a bracket built around them once Wesley joins our region.

What makes you think that? Wesley hasn't had a 1 seed all that often historically, although I believe they were a 1 seed in 2009 and 2006. Other than that, roughly speaking, they've been mostly a 2. I don't think it's a given they will be a 1 seed, although I do like their odds of having undefeated NJAC seasons the way the conference looks this year.

Further I just don't understand the fascination with having a bracket built around the region. Let it go. The playoffs aren't all that regional anymore and won't be unless the money dries up. Moving Wesley in doesn't mean anything for the "East" anymore than when the MAC was shifted from South to East.

And if you really want to stick a nail in this "regional" idea, according to TES, SJF is 294 miles from UMU. They are 400 miles from Wesley. UMU has a better claim to a regional tournament with SJF in it than Wesley does...

Didn't expect that the reaction would come from some other than a Fisher fan, let alone a non-E8er.  My trolling needs practice.
Check out the official card game of the AU Pep Band - Str8 Eight!

Bombers798891

Quote from: jknezek on October 06, 2014, 12:46:46 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on October 06, 2014, 12:24:05 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 06, 2014, 10:25:14 AM

Further I just don't understand the fascination with having a bracket built around the region. Let it go. The playoffs aren't all that regional anymore and won't be unless the money dries up. Moving Wesley in doesn't mean anything for the "East" anymore than when the MAC was shifted from South to East.


I think it has to do with avoiding a team like Mount/UMHB for an extra round, which hopefully allows a team to go a round deeper into the playoffs

Interesting. The care isn't to actually be one of the best teams in the country, it's just to survive longer until facing one? I guess we all suffer from that desire. I know I did when W&L made the playoffs. Still, doesn't really say much about the quality of the team, simply that the inevitable was put off for another week.

Honestly, I think a lot of it is that it's Mount Union that often takes our place.

Look, Mount deserves every single win they get because they've earned it. Mount wins because Mount is better. Period. And it's the responsibility of the other programs to step their games up like the UWW, MHB, Wesley's have. So don't mistake what I'm about to say as sour grapes.

I guess I just feel like, I've been a serious D-III football fan since about the mid 90s. I mean, I've loved Ithaca football since I was five, but I wasn't really aware of how the D-III landscape worked until the mid 90s. And that's right around the time that Mount went on their little 109-1 run.

Again, they deserve all they get, but they're now 292-12 since the start of the 1992 season. As a fan, I'm just burnt out on Mount Union football

jknezek

Quote from: Bombers798891 on October 06, 2014, 02:08:08 PM
Honestly, I think a lot of it is that it's Mount Union that often takes our place.

Look, Mount deserves every single win they get because they've earned it. Mount wins because Mount is better. Period. And it's the responsibility of the other programs to step their games up like the UWW, MHB, Wesley's have. So don't mistake what I'm about to say as sour grapes.

I guess I just feel like, I've been a serious D-III football fan since about the mid 90s. I mean, I've loved Ithaca football since I was five, but I wasn't really aware of how the D-III landscape worked until the mid 90s. And that's right around the time that Mount went on their little 109-1 run.

Again, they deserve all they get, but they're now 292-12 since the start of the 1992 season. As a fan, I'm just burnt out on Mount Union football

I've followed D3 for less time than you have, that's for sure. I was fairly into in college, but then dropped out mostly except for a few moments when W&L had a good run until 2008 or so. But I'm fairly sick of the big 2 already. 2+ years ago there was this big discussion of whether the big 2 was good for D3, and I'm not going to rehash it, but I agree completely. Kind of tired of them. The fact that in all of the 230+ D3 playoff eligible teams, there are only 4-5 true championship contenders (and that's being generous), just blows.

But you are 100% correct that it is up to everyone else to take it away from the big 2. It's not up to them to be generous...

Bombers798891

Quote from: jknezek on October 06, 2014, 02:17:00 PM

The fact that in all of the 230+ D3 playoff eligible teams, there are only 4-5 true championship contenders (and that's being generous), just blows.


This, 100%. No other sport has such an absurd concentration of power, and honestly it feels, like there are two parts to the season: Everything before your team runs into one of those 4-5 teams, and the part your team is not involved in.

I just want Ithaca—and to a lesser extent, teams I follow as an Eb/East fan—to enjoy that first part a little longer

ExTartanPlayer

Quote from: Bombers798891 on October 06, 2014, 03:05:42 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 06, 2014, 02:17:00 PM
The fact that in all of the 230+ D3 playoff eligible teams, there are only 4-5 true championship contenders (and that's being generous), just blows.

This, 100%. No other sport has such an absurd concentration of power, and honestly it feels, like there are two parts to the season: Everything before your team runs into one of those 4-5 teams, and the part your team is not involved in.

I almost posted this article on the D3boards when I first read it, but didn't really have a logical place for it, until now.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/east-carolina-pirates-2014-college-football-playoff-plight/

"Since that Week 2 defeat, ECU has been effectively out of the running for a playoff berth, and for the perpetually unlikely prospect of hoisting that vape-pen-inspired playoff trophy. But despite that, a funny thing is happening in Greenville right now: The season is still going on."

"There are viewers out there who consider 10-win seasons bitter failures, an attitude that thoroughly grosses us out, considering the volume of work and joy it devalues in the process."

(*Note: I'm not saying anyone here has this attitude, just seemed like a quote worth highlighting, I'll bring it back in a second)

"At a place like ECU, players come to play, coaches come to coach, and fans enter into binding emotional fandom knowing that the chance of a championship is stacked impossibly against them."

Sure, it is boring that the Big Two win the national title every year (and usually play one another for that title).  And maybe that's bad for Division III football as a whole, but I don't know that it's really as bad as we make it out to be.  Kids will continue to go to Ithaca, W & L, Carnegie Mellon, Hobart, Union, and the rest of the Division III population.  They'll keep playing games, with goals big and small: for some, a conference title, or a winning season, or even breaking a long losing streak.  Mount Union and UWW may loom over the national picture and their respective conferences, but to everyone but the OAC/WIAC and the handful of schools trying to knock them off the national perch, they are all but irrelevant.

As I said, no one here has expressed the view that a 10-win season is a failure, but I wanted to highlight that quote (and scale it to Division III football) because it cuts right at something I've believed for awhile: that the emphasis on winning championships has resulted in a media devaluation of the simple joy of winning regular old games, which does not match the feelings of players on the field in those games.  My senior season at CMU ended with an ECAC bowl game against Gettysburg.  Both teams entered at 6-4, neither team would play another game, there was no national title at stake, nothing bigger than the glory of winning the day.  But you know what?  We played anyway, and damned if it wasn't a great game, and if we didn't all have a great old time playing the game just for the sake of playing.

I thought that article on ECU captured it very well.  Players come to play, coaches come to coach, fans come to watch, and everyone still can enjoy the spectacle of the game without worrying about how it will affect the national title picture or the playoff odds for anyone.  Another personal anecdote, my girlfriend is in her first semester teaching at Central Michigan University and we've coordinated my first couple of visits to line up with their first few home games.  On Saturday I watched 2-3 Central Michigan take on 3-2 Ohio (and win to raise their record to 3-3).  There were certainly no championship ramifications or anything of the sort, but I met several alums and locals at the game and was impressed by their enthusiasm.  They were at the game to root on the Chips just for the fun.  It restored some of my faith in the enjoyment of football just for the spectacle and the respect for the players' effort rather than merely a vehicle for winning crystal trophies.
I was small but made up for it by being slow...

http://athletics.cmu.edu/sports/fball/2011-12/releases/20120629a4jaxa

Bengalsrule

Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on October 06, 2014, 03:59:40 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on October 06, 2014, 03:05:42 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 06, 2014, 02:17:00 PM
The fact that in all of the 230+ D3 playoff eligible teams, there are only 4-5 true championship contenders (and that's being generous), just blows.

This, 100%. No other sport has such an absurd concentration of power, and honestly it feels, like there are two parts to the season: Everything before your team runs into one of those 4-5 teams, and the part your team is not involved in.

I almost posted this article on the D3boards when I first read it, but didn't really have a logical place for it, until now.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/east-carolina-pirates-2014-college-football-playoff-plight/

"Since that Week 2 defeat, ECU has been effectively out of the running for a playoff berth, and for the perpetually unlikely prospect of hoisting that vape-pen-inspired playoff trophy. But despite that, a funny thing is happening in Greenville right now: The season is still going on."

"There are viewers out there who consider 10-win seasons bitter failures, an attitude that thoroughly grosses us out, considering the volume of work and joy it devalues in the process."

(*Note: I'm not saying anyone here has this attitude, just seemed like a quote worth highlighting, I'll bring it back in a second)

"At a place like ECU, players come to play, coaches come to coach, and fans enter into binding emotional fandom knowing that the chance of a championship is stacked impossibly against them."

Sure, it is boring that the Big Two win the national title every year (and usually play one another for that title).  And maybe that's bad for Division III football as a whole, but I don't know that it's really as bad as we make it out to be.  Kids will continue to go to Ithaca, W & L, Carnegie Mellon, Hobart, Union, and the rest of the Division III population.  They'll keep playing games, with goals big and small: for some, a conference title, or a winning season, or even breaking a long losing streak.  Mount Union and UWW may loom over the national picture and their respective conferences, but to everyone but the OAC/WIAC and the handful of schools trying to knock them off the national perch, they are all but irrelevant.

As I said, no one here has expressed the view that a 10-win season is a failure, but I wanted to highlight that quote (and scale it to Division III football) because it cuts right at something I've believed for awhile: that the emphasis on winning championships has resulted in a media devaluation of the simple joy of winning regular old games, which does not match the feelings of players on the field in those games.  My senior season at CMU ended with an ECAC bowl game against Gettysburg.  Both teams entered at 6-4, neither team would play another game, there was no national title at stake, nothing bigger than the glory of winning the day.  But you know what?  We played anyway, and damned if it wasn't a great game, and if we didn't all have a great old time playing the game just for the sake of playing.

I thought that article on ECU captured it very well.  Players come to play, coaches come to coach, fans come to watch, and everyone still can enjoy the spectacle of the game without worrying about how it will affect the national title picture or the playoff odds for anyone.  Another personal anecdote, my girlfriend is in her first semester teaching at Central Michigan University and we've coordinated my first couple of visits to line up with their first few home games.  On Saturday I watched 2-3 Central Michigan take on 3-2 Ohio (and win to raise their record to 3-3).  There were certainly no championship ramifications or anything of the sort, but I met several alums and locals at the game and was impressed by their enthusiasm.  They were at the game to root on the Chips just for the fun.  It restored some of my faith in the enjoyment of football just for the spectacle and the respect for the players' effort rather than merely a vehicle for winning crystal trophies.

+1 for just loving the game!!! ExTartanPlayer.... you have captured it!!!! ;)

Bombers798891

As usual, I think ETP makes some great points. Especially at the D-III level, there is a lot of value in things other than national championships—conference titles, rivalry games, and the like. I know some pretty bitter IC fans who still want the team to be successful like they were under Butterfield, and I always remind them that for 20 years, Mike Welch has won more than 70 percent of his games, and that's damn special.

But I still think that puts a gloss over the fact that, at the end of the day, there is a championship, and in D-III football, that is a realistic goal for an absurdly small fraction of the teams. Yes, it's the responsibility of those teams/athletic departments to improve, but we're not them. We've got little to no control over the input, so all we can do is analyze the output. And while every sport has its has/have-not's, the idea that 97-98% of the teams in D-III football are playing solely for the joy of the game, conference titles and rivalry trophies, while the lucky 2-3% get to experience a shot at a title, well, it sucks.