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Messages - Buck O.

#1
Men's soccer / Re: 2023 NCAA Tournament
November 19, 2023, 03:58:49 PM
Well, it seems obvious that the national final will be Washington College vs Washington & Lee, since this year, apparently the only way for a school named after a Washington to be eliminated from the tournament is to play another Washington.

Too bad WashU didn't qualify.
#2
Men's soccer / Re: 2023 NCAA Tournament
November 18, 2023, 05:27:31 PM
Quote from: d4_Pace on November 18, 2023, 04:48:03 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 18, 2023, 04:33:56 PM
Quote from: flyingdutchman on November 18, 2023, 03:55:35 PM
Quote from: stlawus on November 18, 2023, 12:54:35 PM
Phenomenal no call by the ref at the end of the Tufts-WL game.   Tufts wanted a penalty and he sold it well, but on the replay he wasn't even touched.

Please get your eyes checked. I am not sure what game you were watching but that penalty was clear as day. I saw it live on the stream and rewatched it multiple times. He gets zero ball, if he had gotten any of the ball it would have changed direction. His cleat does not go under 11's leg, it goes right into him.

https://tuftsjumbocast.com/. Minute 3:17 of the game or 1:45:15 of youtube video, if you want to see it yourself.

I watched it more than a dozen times on YouTube but just can't get a clear frame of the defender touching the offensive player.

I definitely don't see him getting the front foot, it's very clear between 145:19-20 that the front foot is up and over the defender. There was no chance for contact on the front foot.

In that same time period the ball is past the defender's foot, so it's also clear to me he doesn't get the ball as I agree the trajectory doesn't change. I did get a frame on a lucky pause where the foot looks like it hits the ball, but the camera angle would lead to that conclusion as well, as would the Ref's positioning looking straight down the line at ball and defender's foot, so you'd have to go by trajectory from the angle and by how quick the ref makes the signal, I don't think he looked at where the ball went.

I can't tell if the defender touched the offensive player's back foot or not. There was no lucky pause that showed me that split second. A little before, a little after, nothing spot on despite multiple attempts. But the fall, which is essentially a face plant, is exactly what I'd expect to see if the back foot is touched while the body continues on. No coincidentally, it's also how I would sell a dive as an offensive player on that play.

Heck of a call not to make at that point in the game, heck of a call to make at that point of the game. If you aren't sure, you don't call it. It's also worth noting the assistant ref also makes no move with his flag like he's intending to call a foul. It stays completely down and he just continues on running with the ball as it is cleared. To be fair, the ref made the no-call motion really fast, so maybe the assistant would have had more reaction given a bit more time, but the ref was very definitive very quickly.

I'm not sure I'd describe a penalty as "clear as day", but even as a W&L fan, I'd say the video evidence points to the Generals getting a favorable call. On the balance, not touching the ball is kind of a key factor, even if I'm not positive there was player to player contact, though I'd say the evidence favors it.

Again, I suspect from the position of the ref, and the camera, with foot coming straight at the ball, it may have looked like the defender got it and the ref made his decision based on an angle that was imperfect.

Tough call in a split second.


I appreciate the fair analysis and I will try to respond in kind. I think the penalty incident could have either way as could have the goal that tufts scored that was called for being over the end line.

Speaking as a disinterested observer who was at the game because I live in Medford, you and jknezek are right.  Contrary to others' assertions, it simply is not clear, one way or the other.  I have a screen grab on my computer screen right now (which I would post but it exceeds the max file size), and it's just not sharp enough to tell.  My personal opinion, if I base it solely on watching the video, is that it is more likely than not that Trainor was fouled; but the ref was a lot closer to the play than the cameraman, so I'm inclined to give his call some deference.
#3
Men's soccer / Re: 2023 NCAA Tournament
November 18, 2023, 01:15:31 PM
Quote from: stlawus on November 18, 2023, 01:03:24 PM
Would definitely have been a penalty if he made contact but he went right under him, at least that's what I saw.  I used the frame by frame function, so it looked pretty clear to me.

Interesting. I'm at Bello, although I was about 75 yards away from the play, and without the benefit of replay, it certainly looked like a PK to me. Based on your description, well done by the ref.
#4
Men's soccer / Re: Big Dance 2022 - Let's Go!
December 03, 2022, 02:47:27 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on December 03, 2022, 02:31:22 PM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on December 03, 2022, 02:23:33 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on December 03, 2022, 02:19:08 PM
Quote from: Buck O. on December 03, 2022, 02:17:15 PM
Quote from: deiscanton on December 03, 2022, 02:09:31 PM
Congratulations to UChicago-- 2022 NCAA DIII Men's Soccer Champions

Final:  UChicago 2, Williams 0   Chicago gets an empty net goal with 14 seconds left to seal it.

Congratulations to Julianne Sitch- First woman to coach a men's soccer team to an NCAA Championship in any division.

Not to mention the first UAA team to win the title (as a member of the UAA, anyway, since Brandeis's title predated the creation of the UAA), and only the second non-NESCAC team other than Messiah to win the title since 2003.

Let's see if Case Western can pull it off on the women's side for a double UAA Natty

No thanks... Go JAYS! :D

Fair, I'm just happy it's no NESCAC. They need to learn to share ;D

Well, Hopkins should be in the UAA, even if they had the colossally bad judgment to leave, so if they win, I'm inclined to count it as a UAA title anyway.
#5
Men's soccer / Re: Big Dance 2022 - Let's Go!
December 03, 2022, 02:17:15 PM
Quote from: deiscanton on December 03, 2022, 02:09:31 PM
Congratulations to UChicago-- 2022 NCAA DIII Men's Soccer Champions

Final:  UChicago 2, Williams 0   Chicago gets an empty net goal with 14 seconds left to seal it.

Congratulations to Julianne Sitch- First woman to coach a men's soccer team to an NCAA Championship in any division.

Not to mention the first UAA team to win the title (as a member of the UAA, anyway, since Brandeis's title predated the creation of the UAA), and only the second non-NESCAC team other than Messiah to win the title since 2003.
#6
Men's soccer / Re: Big Dance 2022 - Let's Go!
November 19, 2022, 03:52:42 PM
Quote from: BigSoccerFan on November 19, 2022, 03:47:39 PM
Quote from: Another Mom on November 19, 2022, 03:43:20 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 19, 2022, 03:39:13 PM
Congratulations Kenyon. Nice win. Put the screws to the Generals in the first 10 minutes of each half and it paid off, absorbed the pressure when needed and scored a wonderful insurance goal. I'll be pulling for you to go all the way!

Agree. Will be rooting for Kenyon to go all the way.
Well for sake of confusions @Another Mom 

Washington Lee finishes behind Williams this year. 

Quote from: Another Mom on August 07, 2022, 11:02:07 AM
Well, I stand by my opinion :-)

Seriously,  teams that didn't make the ncaa tournament ranked in the top 10, over a team that finished in the final four? How does that make any sense? What does Massey "think" is changing. One has a longstanding coach, the other doesn't.  Do you think Massey has some special insight into the incoming freshmen?!

I will eat my hat if Williams finishes the year ahead of Washington and Lee -- and I will do it on @simplecoach's YouTube channel to boot!

Hmmm doesn't that make Williams finishing ahead of W&L .  Can someone please pass the nacho cheese

Looking to start a thread on what kind of hat tastes best.
#7
Men's soccer / Re: Big Dance 2022 - Let's Go!
November 19, 2022, 03:50:47 PM
Bowdoin takes a 3-1 lead over Oneonta with half an hour left.
#8
Men's soccer / Re: Big Dance 2022 - Let's Go!
November 13, 2022, 09:33:11 PM
Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on November 13, 2022, 09:16:26 PM
Williams 6th 0-0 tie on the season sets an NCAA record. (previous was Drew in 2014).

Not surprisingly, they have also passed the record for ties in a season (9), with 11.

The national championship game should be their kryptonite, then, since it cannot finish in a tie.
#9
Men's soccer / Re: Big Dance 2022 - Let's Go!
November 13, 2022, 05:54:19 PM
So, 6 of 11 games today decided in PKs.  We still have four games left.
#10
Men's soccer / Re: Big Dance 2022 - Let's Go!
November 13, 2022, 05:53:05 PM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 13, 2022, 05:48:33 PM
(And that's what I meant about staggering these games... That was nucking futs to follow. :D )

I had four windows open.  Easy peasy.
#11
Men's soccer / Re: Big Dance 2022 - Let's Go!
November 13, 2022, 05:12:46 PM
So I believe there are five OT games under way right now and a 6th in PKs.
#12
Men's soccer / Re: Big Dance 2022 - Let's Go!
November 13, 2022, 04:56:22 PM
And of course, Messiah and Williams are tied at the end of regulation.  Because it's Williams.
#13
Men's soccer / Re: UAA Soccer 2022
November 13, 2022, 02:04:05 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 13, 2022, 09:52:14 AM
Quote from: Another Mom on November 13, 2022, 09:29:31 AM
I don't know if they are the 2nd best conference, (only because I don't know all the other conferences) but Emory, Carnegie Mellon, Rochester, and Case all would need to be playing higher level soccer before I would say that the conference is really strong.

Eta and we can probably add in WashU and Brandeis this year. Isn't that most of the conference not playing up to its potential?

Now you're posing two different questions.  Were they down some this year and have they underperformed in the tournament?  Absolutely.  Is the gap between NESCAC and UAA maybe bigger than some of us sometimes think?  Very possible.  But even if there is a big gap between #1 and #2 that doesn't mean there isn't another big gap to #3....which honestly is probably the Centennial with a record of generally not doing much beyond the Sweet 16.

Agree on all counts, including the opinion that the Centennial is probably #3.  I mean, Another Mom is right that most of the UAA didn't play up to its potential... this year.  That's why it was a down year for the conference.  With that said, the league was still pretty decent.  The bottom half of the league with their Massey ratings as of this moment:  WashU (75), Rochester (80), Brandeis (103), Emory (107).  None of those really played what I would call high level soccer, but there are four Centennial teams (McDaniel, Swat, Fords, Ursinus) with Massey ratings that are worse than Emory, the worst UAA team, with the latter two well below.  Three LL teams (Ithaca, Union, Bard) have Massey ratings that are considerably worse than Emory.  So do three NEWMAC teams.  Four SCIAC teams. SEVEN NJAC teams.  Five Landmark teams.  Six SUNYAC teams.  Have I made my point yet?
#14
Men's soccer / Re: UAA Soccer 2022
November 13, 2022, 08:54:53 AM
Quote from: Saint of Old on November 13, 2022, 08:49:19 AM
Quote from: Buck O. on November 13, 2022, 08:43:06 AM
Quote from: Saint of Old on November 13, 2022, 08:31:58 AM
Not gonna argue that the Nescac is not the Champions Lge of D3 soccer. As far as who is next in line, I think we need a whole new topic thread to settle that debate. I am sure many conferences would nominate themselves...Off the top of my head, @least 2 from the Upstate NY region would fancy their chances.

If you're just looking at the top half of the conference, then I agree.  But the whole conference matters, and most of these conferences have anchors that drag the average quality down.  The SUNYAC has Fredonia and Potsdam, for example, and they count just as much as Oneonta or Cortland.  As for your Liberty League, they have Ithaca, Union and (especially) Bard.  The weakest teams in the UAA were Emory and 'Deis, which are really completely decent teams.
Ithaca Bombers were dancing 2 seasons ago BTW.

I was talking about this year.  But if we want to talk about the last several years, I think that's just going to strengthen the UAA's argument, as in 2017 and 2018, I think that the UAA was actually stronger than the NESCAC (4 Elite Eight teams and 2 Final Four teams in 2017, 4 Elite Eight teams and 2 Final Four teams in 2018).
#15
Men's soccer / Re: UAA Soccer 2022
November 13, 2022, 08:45:34 AM
Quote from: Falconer on November 13, 2022, 08:39:37 AM
Quote from: Buck O. on November 13, 2022, 08:26:20 AM
Quote from: deutschfan on November 12, 2022, 09:57:31 PM
And that's barely.  Chicago almost gave up a goal on a wide open look 10 minutes in.  I thought Chicago was rock solid but between its showing here, the weakness of the UAA in the tournament, and Kenyon's shellacking of Calvin now I am not so certain.

CMU did poorly, but both NYU and CWRU were eliminated in PKs.  I think this was a weaker than usual year for the UAA in general, but basing any conclusions on the results of a couple of coin flips is a stretch.  The UAA was still probably the second strongest conference in the country, although the gap between it and the NESCAC was wider than usual.
Actually, Williams beat NYU 2-1, in 2 OT.

Oh, sorry about that.  I think I was thinking it was a tie because Williams was involved!