MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

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AndOne

Quote from: sac on February 24, 2013, 01:07:44 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 24, 2013, 12:46:22 PM
That's why I emphasized 'IF'.  If they ever meet at all, would we be able to tell by which team is listed as the 'home' team?  (I assume that even on a neutral court, the higher seed is designated as 'home'.)

Generally true, but with a tournament that alters its seeds to satisfy geography it can be difficult to tell what a teams true 'seed' really is sometimes.

I think sac makes a good point here.
The just completed CCIW tourney is a good illustration of the usual procedure of the higher seed being designated as the home team and wearing its white uniforms.
However, as sac points out, the NCAA, in its infinite wisdom, does things like not revealing the seeds, and altering seeds along geographical lines to sometimes confuse those of us who might try to venture a guess as to the seeding order.

jaybird44

When is secondary criteria most often used?  Exclusively with the bubble teams, or do they get applied to the teams that fill the first Pool C slots too?

AndOne

Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 23, 2013, 10:14:14 PM
North Central 70
Augustana 63

Well, it would've been fun to get an unprecedented four CCIW teams into the dance, but apparently Derek Raridon (23 pts, 8-11 FG) did not agree. Funny thing is, he vanished for the first eleven and a half minutes of the second half. The only time he even appears in the PBP is when he grabbed a defensive rebound at about the 9:30 mark. Can't remember the last time I saw a game in which the most dominant player was that invisible for that long.

If I'm coaching, and have a player who can shoot 8 for 11 and score 23 points in a tournament championship game, I don't care how many minutes he "vanishes." Hell, the can even join the opposing coach for a little electric boogaloo for all I care.   8-)

USee

The Thunder could not get it done against NCC in the conference Semi's. I think the simple reason is that NCC has more experience in big games. Wheaton is young and has only Ty Peters who has any significant experience in playoff type games. The Thunder play well at home but struggle against good teams on the road. In the playoffs, I suspect they have a chance at making it out of the first weekend but I wouldn't be surprised to lose early in the playoffs. They are a young team and all 5 starters as well as 9 of their top 10 return next year. If they shoot the ball well in the playoffs they could advance to the 2nd weekend.

NCC is playing well at the right time. They won 3 huge games this week and are peaking when they need to. Add that to an experienced group and a deep playoff run should be expected. I was more than a little concerned with the deteriorating limp of Tiknis against Wheaton. That knee is clearly an issue (though he made 2 huge plays at the end of the game Friday...on one leg).

IWU is the best team in the league (as evidenced by their regular season record) but they picked the wrong time of year to drop 2 in a row. It seems to me teams need to combine talent, experience, and team chemistry to go along with being hot at the right time. The Titans have the first 3 but if I am Ron Rose, I am concerned with entering the post season on a 2 game losing streak, the latter of which was a poorly played game at home. That doesn't bode well. The good news is the Titans are a veteran bunch and have plenty of players that know what it takes to make a deep run in the playoffs. They will need that experience next week.

I would love to see Augie get picked as a C and the CCIW gets 4 teams. Would be awesome

CCIWchamps

Quote from: USee on February 24, 2013, 02:50:04 PM
The Thunder could not get it done against NCC in the conference Semi's. I think the simple reason is that NCC has more experience in big games. Wheaton is young and has only Ty Peters who has any significant experience in playoff type games. The Thunder play well at home but struggle against good teams on the road. In the playoffs, I suspect they have a chance at making it out of the first weekend but I wouldn't be surprised to lose early in the playoffs. They are a young team and all 5 starters as well as 9 of their top 10 return next year. If they shoot the ball well in the playoffs they could advance to the 2nd weekend.


I hope this season builds them up in the off-season.  If so, next year will be fun.

Titan Q

#32975
Quote from: USee on February 24, 2013, 02:50:04 PM
IWU is the best team in the league (as evidenced by their regular season record) but they picked the wrong time of year to drop 2 in a row. It seems to me teams need to combine talent, experience, and team chemistry to go along with being hot at the right time. The Titans have the first 3 but if I am Ron Rose, I am concerned with entering the post season on a 2 game losing streak, the latter of which was a poorly played game at home. That doesn't bode well. The good news is the Titans are a veteran bunch and have plenty of players that know what it takes to make a deep run in the playoffs. They will need that experience next week.

True, but IWU lost 4 of 8 entering the NCAA tournament last year, including an awful performance vs Wheaton in the CCIW tournament (at NCC)..  And then, of course, played incredibly in the NCAA tournament, knocking off UW-Stevens Point, winning @ #1 Hope, winning @ Wooster, and defeating Wittenberg on the way to Salem.

I think Ron Rose's squad will be ready to go in the tournament.  In some ways, I think this group is a more dangerous underdog type than a favorite -- I saw a team that played really, really tight at home Friday night as the favorite.  I don't mind the thought at all of seeing IWU back on the road against some really good teams -- in fact, for some strange reason I kind of prefer it.  (Guess I'm just used to watching the Titans play well on the road in the tournament.)

Also looking forward to getting away from CCIW teams.  It's just such a grind playing league games, where everyone knows you so well.


A Lover of the Game

Quote from: Titan Q on February 24, 2013, 03:24:05 PM
I think Ron Rose's squad will be ready to go in the tournament.  In some ways, I think this group is a more dangerous underdog type than a favorite -- I saw a team that played really, really tight at home Friday night as the favorite.  I don't mind the thought at all of seeing IWU back on the road against some really good teams -- in fact, for some strange reason I kind of prefer it.  (Guess I'm just used to watching the Titans play well on the road in the tournament.)

Also looking forward to getting away from CCIW teams.  It's just such a grind playing league games, where everyone knows you so well.

I said somewhat of the same thing on the ride home from Bloomington today.
Play the best to be the best.

AndOne

Some impressions from this weekend's CCIW tourney:

* The look of utter amazement and shock on the faces of hundreds of IWU fans following their loss to Augie Friday night. Not sure if they were more surprised over the actual loss, or the fact that Wesleyan could play that poorly at home. Prior to the commencement of the evening's activities, several Wesleyan fans opined to me that it would take "a miracle" for IWU and NCC not to be playing last night. No doubt the Greenies will pick things up in the national tourney.

* Not sure you could call it overall strong play, but tough play would be a good description of Augie's performances both in their win over IWU, and their loss to NCC. Some good looking young talent that will continue to develop.

* The "electric boogaloo" performance by the dance fever king otherwise known as "G"

* Wheaton's seemingly over dependence on ace player Tyler Peters who scored more than half of his team's points in the loss to NCC. It seems WC needs to make more of an effort to get the ball inside to Nathan Haynes who I think is a good player, and who would respond favorably to increased touches. Granted WC does not really have a complementary inside talent to team with Haynes who, as such, would be susceptible to being doubled. However, he could then kick it out to one of WC's complement of good outside shooters, one of whom would likely have a very good open look.

* A bit of the dramatic in Wheaton's Mr. Peters who looked to initiate an almost game-long running discourse with one of the NCC parents by first looking directly at, and then winking at the fan after a made basket. He later provided the "loaded gun" salute pointing with his index finger, and extending his thumb upward. Their exchanges were sometimes as entertaining as the game action itself. 

* The what seemed low attendance for the Wesleyan/Augie game Friday night. I was very surprised with the large number of open seats during that game especially given that, with two wins, IWU had a great chance to cement a top regional ranking. Also, and this was certainly not unexpected with the upset loss by IWU to Augie, I wonder if a game has ever been played at the Shirk Center with fewer people in attendance than for last night's CCIW Tournament championship game.

* The outstanding play of NCC's Jack Burchett who posted a double-double in both games with 15 and 13 in the semifinal win over Wheaton, and 11 and 11 in the championship victory over Augie.

AndOne

We all like to chide Coach G for his actions and antics along the sidelines during game action.

However, best wishes and prayers are due him and his family, especially his dad, as the elder Mr. Giovanine battles a very tough illness. Here is hoping for nothing but a win for the entire Giovanine family!

newCCIWfan

First ... we have a couple weeks left but I'd like to thank all the posters to this board. Though I don't often post, I thoroughly enjoy the thoughts, banter and occasional argument! It has been a very entertaining season and this board is one of the things that makes it enjoyable to follow all the CCIW teams.

With the conference championship done ... I thought I would take a stab at All-Conference Teams

Most Outstanding Player: Tyler Peters

(Parenthesis is the ranking within the conference in given statistic)

1st Team
G   Jr   Peters     WHE  18.1ppg (1st), 4.1rpg (20th), 4.2apg (2nd), 1.2spg (8th), 1.5 a/to (3rd)
G   Sr   Raridon    NCC  14.8ppg (4th), 2.4apg (7th)
F   Jr   Ziemnik    IWU  11.5ppg (12th), 5.9rpg (11th)
F   Jr   Gamble     NCC  15.9ppg (3rd), 5.9rpg (10th), 2.2apg (14th), 0.5bpg (14th)
F   Jr   Haynes     WHE  13.2ppg (7th), 10.9rpg (1st), 1.6spg (3rd), 2.0bpg (1st)
     
2nd Team     
G   So   Overstreet IWU   8.9ppg (27th), 5.5apg (1st), 0.9spg (15th), 1.9 a/to (2nd)
G   So   Teuscher   WHE  14.1ppg (5th), 2.1apg (15th), 1.5spg (5th)
F   Sr   Tiknis     NCC   8.5ppg (29th), 6.1rpg (9th), 2.7apg (6th), 1.1bpg (4th)
F   Jr   Sanford    ELM  16.0ppg (2nd), 8.9rpg (3rd), 0.7bpg (8th)
F   Fr   Johnson    MIL  11.9ppg (10th), 9.1rpg (2nd), 1.5spg (4th), 1.0bpg (5th)
     
3rd Team     
G   So   Sodemann   IWU  11.2ppg (14th)
F   Sr   Holmes     NPU  12.5ppg (9th), 5.2rpg (13th)
F   Sr   Thompson   CAR  13.8ppg (6th), 6.9rpg (5th), 1.8bpg (2nd)
C   Sr   Kuntz      AUG  10.3ppg (19th), 6.9rpg (4th), 0.6bpg (9th)
F   Fr   Ryan       AUG  11.2ppg (14th), 6.1rpg (8th), 1.1spg (13th)

Left Off
C   Sr   Reed       IWU   9.5ppg (24th), 6.8rpg (6th), 2.7apg (5th), 0.7bpg (6th)
G   Jr   Kimic      NCC  11.4ppg (13th), 5.5rpg (12th), 2.1spg (1st)
C   Sr   Pierce     CAR  13.1ppg (8th), 4.1rpg (18th)
G   Fr   Griffin    MIL   9.9ppg (23rd), 2.2apg (12th), 1.7spg (2nd)
G   Sr   Cassita    NPU  11.7ppg (11th), 2.3apg (10th)
F   Jr   Davis      IWU   9.5ppg (24th), 4.8rpg (15th)
G   So   Kvam       WHE  10.1ppg (20th)
G   So   Jurgutis   AUG  10.0ppg (21st)

Notes:
- I'm not sure if the coaches try to keep a reasonable proportion of guards/bigs on each team... I have operated on the assumption that they do (surveying the last 5 or so years they tend to do so, though not always). If the coaches don't care about having 5 centers/forwards on the same team then they could potentially replace Pat Sodemann with Kevin Reed on 3rd team. There is also precedent for creating a team of 6 (see 2011, 2010, 2009), so that might be a moot point.
- I would also argue that by the "numbers" Vince Kimic deserves to make all conference team over Mark Holmes. However, Holmes is a senior, the only viable all-conference player from a bad NPU team, and also more important to NPU then Kimic is to NCC, and I believe the edge will go to Holmes.
- Not sure if Tiknis' play this year deserves to be 2nd team all-conference (though I know injury has slowed him), however, my guess is his reputation over the last 2 years wins him that honor.


Well, just my thoughts.


USee

Quote from: Titan Q on February 24, 2013, 03:24:05 PM
Quote from: USee on February 24, 2013, 02:50:04 PM
IWU is the best team in the league (as evidenced by their regular season record) but they picked the wrong time of year to drop 2 in a row. It seems to me teams need to combine talent, experience, and team chemistry to go along with being hot at the right time. The Titans have the first 3 but if I am Ron Rose, I am concerned with entering the post season on a 2 game losing streak, the latter of which was a poorly played game at home. That doesn't bode well. The good news is the Titans are a veteran bunch and have plenty of players that know what it takes to make a deep run in the playoffs. They will need that experience next week.

True, but IWU lost 4 of 8 entering the NCAA tournament last year, including an awful performance vs Wheaton in the CCIW tournament (at NCC)..  And then, of course, played incredibly in the NCAA tournament, knocking off UW-Stevens Point, winning @ #1 Hope, winning @ Wooster, and defeating Wittenberg on the way to Salem.

I think Ron Rose's squad will be ready to go in the tournament.  In some ways, I think this group is a more dangerous underdog type than a favorite -- I saw a team that played really, really tight at home Friday night as the favorite.  I don't mind the thought at all of seeing IWU back on the road against some really good teams -- in fact, for some strange reason I kind of prefer it.  (Guess I'm just used to watching the Titans play well on the road in the tournament.)

Also looking forward to getting away from CCIW teams.  It's just such a grind playing league games, where everyone knows you so well.

Every year is different. I am sure this is what you hope happens. Also, last year, IWU was 3-1 in it's last 4 games before the NCAA tournament. Which is a different spin on the "lost 4 of 8" you mentioned. So I could just as easily argue they were playing better at the end of last season than they were this season. It's all semantics. I am simply saying I think losing your last 2 is not the ideal way to go into the post-season. Every team reacts differently to those situations. Last year's IWU team played great in the post season. I don't think that means this years version will do the same.

Gregory Sager

Quote from: AndOne on February 24, 2013, 04:50:58 PM* The what seemed low attendance for the Wesleyan/Augie game Friday night. I was very surprised with the large number of open seats during that game especially given that, with two wins, IWU had a great chance to cement a top regional ranking.

I was struck by the sight of so many empty seats for that game as well, so I went back and looked at the attendance numbers for CCIW tourney games involving the host school:







2013  Shirk Center (Illinois Wesleyan)  1475 (AC @ IWU)
2012  Merner Field House (North Central)  1778 (AC @ NCC)  2050 (WC @ NCC)
2011  Merner Field House (North Central)  1458 (IWU @ NCC)
2010  Tarble Arena (Carthage)  1875 (AC @ CC)  2410 (IWU @ CC)
2009  King Arena (Wheaton)  2537 (NCC @ WC)  2589 (EC @ WC)
2008  Carver Arena (Augustana)  1203 (EC @ AC)  1723 (IWU @ AC)
2007  Carver Arena (Augustana)    703 (NCC @ AC)  364 (EC @ AC)
2006  Carver Arena (Augustana)  1547 (IWU @ AC)
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

Gregory Sager

Quote from: newCCIWfan on February 24, 2013, 05:17:49 PM- I'm not sure if the coaches try to keep a reasonable proportion of guards/bigs on each team... I have operated on the assumption that they do (surveying the last 5 or so years they tend to do so, though not always). If the coaches don't care about having 5 centers/forwards on the same team then they could potentially replace Pat Sodemann with Kevin Reed on 3rd team. There is also precedent for creating a team of 6 (see 2011, 2010, 2009), so that might be a moot point.

While coaches might, on an individual basis, attempt to construct their ballots proportionally with regard to position, they are under no requirement to do so -- and the tabulation of votes is strictly cumulative on an all-inclusive basis, rather than segregated by position.

Also, there is no attempt made by the league or the coaches to extend the All-CCIW team to include a sixteenth player. It just happens that on occasion, as was the case in the three seasons you mentioned, there's a tie for the fifteenth and final spot (or perhaps a three-way tie for the fourteenth spot).
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

newCCIWfan

Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 24, 2013, 05:38:17 PM
Quote from: AndOne on February 24, 2013, 04:50:58 PM* The what seemed low attendance for the Wesleyan/Augie game Friday night. I was very surprised with the large number of open seats during that game especially given that, with two wins, IWU had a great chance to cement a top regional ranking.

I was struck by the sight of so many empty seats for that game as well, so I went back and looked at the attendance numbers for CCIW tourney games involving the host school:







2013  Shirk Center (Illinois Wesleyan)  1475 (AC @ IWU)
2012  Merner Field House (North Central)  1778 (AC @ NCC)  2050 (WC @ NCC)
2011  Merner Field House (North Central)  1458 (IWU @ NCC)
2010  Tarble Arena (Carthage)  1875 (AC @ CC)  2410 (IWU @ CC)
2009  King Arena (Wheaton)  2537 (NCC @ WC)  2589 (EC @ WC)
2008  Carver Arena (Augustana)  1203 (EC @ AC)  1723 (IWU @ AC)
2007  Carver Arena (Augustana)    703 (NCC @ AC)  364 (EC @ AC)
2006  Carver Arena (Augustana)  1547 (IWU @ AC)

What happened in 2007???