WBB: North Coast Athletic Conference

Started by David Collinge, November 23, 2004, 04:59:39 PM

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NW Hope Fan

Quote from: kiltedbryan on February 28, 2011, 11:10:01 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on February 28, 2011, 03:22:17 PM
Well, ouch!  28-0 isn't worth what it used to be.  Denison has to go on the road (to Hope) and face the defending national champions (WUSTL) in the first round.  Same old, same old.  Go make a statement, Big Red!

This regional contains four of the top 11 teams in the most recent D3hoops.com Top 25 poll.  Talk about your bracket of death!

All the best of luck to Denison. I think they may well have gotten the worst draw of the entire tournament, men or women.

But at least, as my brother pointed out, none of the other three teams can be happy with their draw either. From a tournament perspective, it's always frustrating when the opening two rounds will force matchups better situated for the Sweet Sixteen and Elite Eight rounds.

Best of luck to Denison...knock them all off then angle to host for the second weekend!!

Hope and Denison have an equally difficult draw as they both would have to potentially beat four top ten teams to make the final four. The "only" difference is the home court advantage Hope has... Which I'll agree, is fairly substantial.
"We are told that Christ was killed for us, that His death has washed out our sins, and that by dying He disabled death itself. ... That is Christianity. That is what has to be believed."

C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity

Dutchfan

Quote from: bballfan13 on March 01, 2011, 03:18:41 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on February 28, 2011, 10:42:28 PM
As a Hope fan I thnk that both Denison and Hope should be hosting. As much as I don't want Calvin in our pod (They beat us twice), the NCAA should have put Calvin in Hope's pod and had Denison host  Calvin's pod.
Dutchfan, I definitely agree with your thinking that Hope's pod is the toughest in the tournament.  I don't think anyone would disagree there. But I don't agree with just switching Denison and Calvin and having Denison host. Why would the committee have Hope host Calvin when Calvin beat them 2 out of 3 s, has a better in region winning percentage, and similar SOS.

What about the argument for Denison to host Hope's pod?

I'm just trying to understand your logic, not trying to provoke anything.

Hope lost to Calvin twice (once on a Buzzer beater) by a grand total of 3 points. Both of those games were at Calvin who hosted the conference tournament because of a coin flip. Hope beat Calvin once at Hope by a total of 22. Calvin may have the better in-region wining percent (by a whopping 2.9%) but Hope has four more in-region wins. But the greatest reason that Hope could be the host...
We all know that the NCAA selection committee makes absolutely no sense.

bballfan13

Quote from: Dutchfan on March 01, 2011, 06:01:57 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on March 01, 2011, 03:18:41 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on February 28, 2011, 10:42:28 PM
As a Hope fan I thnk that both Denison and Hope should be hosting. As much as I don't want Calvin in our pod (They beat us twice), the NCAA should have put Calvin in Hope's pod and had Denison host  Calvin's pod.
Dutchfan, I definitely agree with your thinking that Hope's pod is the toughest in the tournament.  I don't think anyone would disagree there. But I don't agree with just switching Denison and Calvin and having Denison host. Why would the committee have Hope host Calvin when Calvin beat them 2 out of 3 s, has a better in region winning percentage, and similar SOS.

What about the argument for Denison to host Hope's pod?

I'm just trying to understand your logic, not trying to provoke anything.

Hope lost to Calvin twice (once on a Buzzer beater) by a grand total of 3 points. Both of those games were at Calvin who hosted the conference tournament because of a coin flip. Hope beat Calvin once at Hope by a total of 22. Calvin may have the better in-region wining percent (by a whopping 2.9%) but Hope has four more in-region wins. But the greatest reason that Hope could be the host...
We all know that the NCAA selection committee makes absolutely no sense.

Although I don't necessarily agree with you about the point differentials, as a win is a win and points scored is never taken into account, I will definitely agree that the selection committee does not make much sense and leaves many people confused.

sumfun

I don't think this selection committee meets in person, but does conference call.  Can you see them saying, "This pod will get them talking." Plus we all know that the NCAA likes the DeVos Center and they draw great local crowds.  Not a real reason, but I'm sure played in their thinking.

David Collinge

NCAC All-Conference Teams Announced:

Player of the Year: Shaina Kaiser, Denison
Newcomer of the Year: Erica Restich, Allegheny
Coach of the Year: Sara Lee, Denison

First Team:
Tyler Cordell, OWU
Kayla Ernst, Kenyon
Heidi Goeller, Allegheny
Katherine Hueter, Wittenberg
Shaina Kaiser, Denison
Serafina Nuzzo, Denison
Pam Quigney, OWU

Second Team:
Allison Anderson, Oberlin
Nicole Coggins, Denison
Kayla Gordon, OWU (four-time all-NCAC performer)
Jill Gregory, Allegheny
Morgan Korinek, Kenyon
Erica Restich, Allegheny
Sarah Watson, Wittenberg

Honorable Mention:
Jess Cowan, Hiram
Kelsey Durichko, Hiram
Maureen Hirt, Kenyon
Kat Powers, Kenyon
Syrea Thomas, Oberlin
Jessica Wingen, Wooster

Congratulations to all!

Pat Coleman

Merged this post in here.
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Hwbb

Quote from: GoDeacs on March 04, 2011, 11:05:57 AM
With the 2011 D3 basketball "championship" tournament pairings, we once again see the biased pairings that ensure certain teams wind up in the Final Four, and others are deliberately given an unfair shake.

It seems that Denison is one of the latter teams, and it's become a regular occurrance over the last several years. 

This year, Denison set a NCAC and school record by going 28-0.  They also won their league tournament.  And they were ranked in the top 10 for the first time in school history.

One might think that the Big Red would be given a pairing that was reflective of their success.  Not so.  Instead, they are "rewarded" for their remarkable achievements by being plopped into a "pod" where there are 3 previous National Champions.  And they get the privilege of playing the defending National Champions in their first game.   

This is one of only three teams in D3 to go undefeated this year, yet they are penalized. 

It seems to me that a top 10 team would logically be a regional 2 or 3 seed, and would therefore play a lower seed in the first round.  But this is not the case.  For whatever reason, Denison is punished (once again) and forced to play a higher seed.   Not to mention the fact that they are forced to travel to the site of their first-round games, instead of being a host.

This was confusing to me at first, since I'm more familiar with actual seeding in actual tournaments with actual rules and a semblance of fairness.  But after some research, I understand it now.

There is no 'seeding' in D3!  Instead, all the teams' names are printed on a small strip of paper, the names are thrown into a hat, and then drawn.  Then, the 'committee' then gets to play with them until they're satisfied that their favorites get the best matchups.   That's the way it seems to me.

I suppose the NCAA thinks Denison should be grateful just to get a bid.

No wonder one of the same old teams win the 'championship' (in name only...) year in and year out.  It's all a sham. 

The NCAA should be embarrassed.   But they will stand there with big grins on their faces as another one of their hand-picked group "wins" it all again.

And most importantly, how unfortunate for a group of true student-athletes that they have to be treated so unfairly.  Some life lesson, huh?

-GoDeacs




Three years ago, Hope was wrestling with the same issues Denison is now. That year (2008), its team was undefeated, ranked #1 or #2 in all the polls, yet was sent on the road for all its tourney games (and eventual Elite-8 loss to the other consensus #1-#2 team in their gym.) That team's senior class went 110-10 over its four years of play, including a national title, yet never played a home tournament game, despite its record and ranking. Yes, Hope got the inexplicable nod from the committee this year. But not too long ago, it was on the other end of the committee's work. Doubt that's much consolation to Denison today; it's intended only to be a small window into the mystery that is all-too-often the D3 tourney.

GuyFormerlyPSBBG

GoDeacs:

Glad see you are very passionate about Denison.  Yes there are no published rankings, but there is a thought process that does go into these rankings.  Unlike, d1 there is a "500 mile" rule that takes over in most cases.  The regional rankings do take a huge role in "ranking" teams for the NCAA tournament.  I assure you that Denison's  ranking for the NCAA tournament is probably higher than Washington U.  The last rankings for the women's regional ranking had Denison #3 and Wash U #6 in their ranking groups.  Wash U, probably barely got into the tournament with that ranking. (They might have moved up in the last unpublished rankings.)  Yes the pod is tough, but the regional rankings support it.

Denison should be a host, but they were either not selected (which sucks, for lack of a better word) or they didn't file the paper work to host.

Somebody correct me if I am wrong on this?

GoRed

Congratulations to Wash U on their 71-55 win and to the Big Red women for a fine season to be proud of.

sac

Quote from: GuyFormerlyPSBBG on March 04, 2011, 11:32:48 AM
GoDeacs:

Glad see you are very passionate about Denison.  Yes there are no published rankings, but there is a thought process that does go into these rankings.  Unlike, d1 there is a "500 mile" rule that takes over in most cases.  The regional rankings do take a huge role in "ranking" teams for the NCAA tournament.  I assure you that Denison's  ranking for the NCAA tournament is probably higher than Washington U.  The last rankings for the women's regional ranking had Denison #3 and Wash U #6 in their ranking groups.  Wash U, probably barely got into the tournament with that ranking. (They might have moved up in the last unpublished rankings.)  Yes the pod is tough, but the regional rankings support it.

Denison should be a host, but they were either not selected (which sucks, for lack of a better word) or they didn't file the paper work to host.

Somebody correct me if I am wrong on this?

My thinking is this was a geographical decision to a host school that also had a very solid resume.  Throw in the NCAA's term of 'fiscal responsibility' and you probably are close to the bulls-eye on why Hope was selected over Denison.

I don't know the attendance for Wash/Denison but the Hope/DePauw game had 2022 and there's a pretty good chance that was the highest or close to the highest in the tournament for tonight.

David Collinge

The NCAC is very well represented on the D3hoops.com All-Great Lakes Region team.  The North Coast contingent is led by Regional Coach of the Year Sara Lee of Denison, who is joined on the team by her senior standout and two-time NCAC Player of the Year Shaina Kaiser (1st team selection) and her outstanding sophomore point guard Serafina Nuzzo (2nd team) who finished the season ranked fifth nationally in A/TO ratio.  Rounding out the NCAC contingent is OWU senior Pam Quigney (3rd team), the second-leading scorer in the conference this season.  Congratulations to all of these outstanding award-winners!

David Collinge

Further congratulations to Shaina Kaiser for being named to the D3hoops.com All-America team (4th team)!  A great honor to cap a great senior season in Granville.  Congratulations, Shaina!

David Collinge

The final Top 25 poll is out.  Denison ends up the season at #18, which is a great accolade for the team to add to their rich treasure chest of accomplishments this season.  Congratulations again, Big Red, and thanks for doing the NCAC proud!

And welcome to the NCAC to the #16-ranked DePauw Tigers!  Two NCAC teams in the final top 25 is a tradition I could get used to!

David Collinge

Denison scores another victory, convincing Nan Carney-DeBord '80 to come back to Granville and take over as AD.  Her assistant at OWU, Stacey Ungashick Reed, will take over the Bishops program for the 2011-12 season, after which OWU will fill the position permanently.  Congratulations to both coaches!

David Collinge

Five Minutes With... former OWU basketball coach and current Denison AD Nan Carney-DeBord. Worth the time.