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Division III basketball (Posting Up) => Men's Basketball => Multi-Regional Topics => Topic started by: Mr. Ypsi on January 06, 2006, 03:44:42 PM

Title: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 06, 2006, 03:44:42 PM
As the (reluctant) tabulator of our first ever Posters' Poll, I thought I'd open a new thread so as not to overwhelm the Top 25 Talk (and to avoid possible confusion over which poll was being discussed).

The poll is initially open to anyone who wishes to participate.  To maintain continuity, however, no new voters will be allowed after the second poll.

Voting will be weighted by poster status: HoF voters will be counted thrice, starters and above will be counted twice, all others once.  Status is as of your first poll participation and will not change later.

Each poll will be for games through Sunday (beginning this Sunday, the 8th); ballots must be sumitted by 7pm Tuesday.  Those wishing to be admired for their perspicacity (or mocked for their bone-headedness!) may post their votes here; those preferring a secret ballot should send to cabonney@netscape.net (or use the message service on this site).

Ballots which in my opinion are too quirky or 'homerish' will be questioned off-line, then either accepted or rejected.  Anyone listing Caltech or Maine-Presque Isle on their top 25 will be summarily ejected! ;D

Anything I've forgotten to mention?



Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 06, 2006, 03:55:38 PM
When I start doing my power ratings (perhaps in a week or so) my ballot may reflect the power ratings more than anything, so if there's a hitch in the get along at some point that's it.

I'll also post my bottom 10 based on power ratings when we start to do that. Will it be Caltech, or Principia, or Albertus VO-5 Magnus Pelkowski?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 06, 2006, 04:01:45 PM

Way to go Ypsi.  I prefer the method Old School proposed last season, but reality trumps proposal any day in my book.  It should be fun.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 06, 2006, 04:06:32 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 06, 2006, 04:01:45 PM

Way to go Ypsi.  I prefer the method Old School proposed last season, but reality trumps proposal any day in my book.  It should be fun.

I'm just winging it - if you or OS reminds me what that method was, I'll consider it.

Please don't anyone mis-construe my last paragraph - I have neither the time nor the intention of challenging picks just because I disagree.  I'm thinking more along the lines of someone putting 5 teams from their home conference in their top ten, etc.  (Or, of course, totally omitting IWU prior to their 10th loss! ;))
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 06, 2006, 04:44:10 PM

He was talking about having two or three voters from each region, etc, basically making it more structured.  I do like your method though, assuming there aren't rediculous amounts of voters.  Pat uses 25, it seems like a decent number and definately keeping it the same each week is important.  You need to make sure people are committed to voting every week.  Whatever you want is cool; you're the one doing the compilation work.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 06, 2006, 05:33:07 PM
A week or so ago, when Ypsi and OS and others were talking about the top 25, I wasn't really sure if I wanted to participate... but I've changed my mind, and I'll have my picks in, probably after Saturday night's games!!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 06, 2006, 06:12:56 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 06, 2006, 04:44:10 PM

He was talking about having two or three voters from each region, etc, basically making it more structured.  I do like your method though, assuming there aren't rediculous amounts of voters.  Pat uses 25, it seems like a decent number and definately keeping it the same each week is important.  You need to make sure people are committed to voting every week.  Whatever you want is cool; you're the one doing the compilation work.

That WOULD make more sense for a 'serious' poll, but (although I HOPE posters take their picks seriously!) I see this more as a fun thing - certainly not intended to compete with Pat's poll!  (Though the differences in the polls may make for some lively discussions.)

I didn't want the responsibility of selecting pollsters - I'm not sure I know enough to select for some regions, and how could I limit the Midwest or Great Lakes to only 2 or 3 without p***ing off some on-line friends?! ;) 

(Besides, is diehardfan now Midwest, Middle Atlantic, or West?  Is David Collinge Great Lakes or West?  You see my problem?!  ;D)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 06, 2006, 06:41:29 PM
Well to Dave and April, anyone East of Denver is an East Coast voter.  :D ;D


Count me in M.Y.

Maybe we can get folks to post just thier Top 10 on the site so as not to overburden the eyes and brain.


My suggestion would be to count anyone who votes even if they miss a few.  Some people are a little too busy to remember to do it every week and might miss a week or two.

Maybe you could do a "Select 10"  made up of most frequent posters.  I guess that depends on the number of voters you get.

Should be fun


Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 06, 2006, 06:42:14 PM
I think 25 is fine. And I think we do need consistent pollsters.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 06, 2006, 07:01:24 PM
Quote from: sac on January 06, 2006, 06:41:29 PM
Well to Dave and April, anyone East of Denver is an East Coast voter.  :D ;D

I suspect they'll have to be on the Left Coast a few more years before they take that attitude!  April is still obviously a Wheaton gal, and I suspect David (aside from New Orleans) is still a Scot at heart.

If there are more than 30-35 voters, expect my resignation!  My notepads are not unlimited, and my abacus may catch fire if I try to tabulate 65 votes!

Yes, to maintain consistency, I hope that voters will plan to vote every week (I realize that will NOT happen entirely (I can't offer the big bucks, like Pat ;)), but PLAN to or please don't participate).  That's also why no new voters are permitted after the second week.  Those who vote in either of the first two polls WILL be counted later, but please TRY to participate consistently if you participate.
Quote
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 06, 2006, 08:20:04 PM
Let's limit the number of teams that we can vote for to 15, which will help ease the workload.  From that, we can fill out the remaining 10 in the "Top 25".
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 06, 2006, 08:27:26 PM
Ralph,

That is VERY tempting, except I'm afraid the top 9 or so are so obvious that I'm worried whether we would reach 25!

I'm used to grading 50+ essay exams in <48 hours, so I'll get it done somehow!

No GUARANTEES on when results will be out, but I expect they will usually be on Tuesday nite or Wednesday.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 06, 2006, 10:07:27 PM
Ypsi I can help if'n you need it.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 06, 2006, 10:22:34 PM
Thanks, Smed,

The compiling I can handle (UNLESS there turn out to be 70+ voters!), but I've never tackled table formatting on this site.  If posters don't mind that it looks pretty gross, I'm good.  If you've got the formatting down, I could email you the results and you could post them looking FINE!  Let me know.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 06, 2006, 11:38:00 PM
Just a thought... but to present the pollster's top 25, perhaps you could Email, in regular spreadsheet format, who the top 25 are, and Pat could post them similar to the way the regular top 25 is.  The only reason why I say that is because O.S. tried to tackle the tables earlier this year and gave up because it would take SO extremely long to figure it out just for one poll!

I have no idea if Pat would agree to that, with everything else he's doing, I'm not quite so sure.... but it is a thought.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 06, 2006, 11:39:31 PM
Like pick em leagues, you'll get a bunch to "play" the first couple of weeks and then you'll see a drop off.  I could see doing a Top 15 or 20 and then use the "others receiving votes" to make it 25.  

Obviously this is just for fun, but yeah, you need consistent voters.

I would definitely post the Posters Top 25 or whatever after Pat's poll, so you don't upstage it or anything!  :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 06, 2006, 11:58:07 PM
Mr Ypsi,

Now let's think this one through.

Those 50+ essays of college kids is just mindless drivel that they probably have plagiarized off an obscure web site. You have seen the same stuff for decades!

The intellectual effort that we D3 posters will place on these polls is vastly greater!  We, the assembled pollsters, represent the collective genius of the finest institutions of higher education in America.

Then consider voting on 20 places.  I really am not interested in whom someone thinks is the 24th best team.  There are plenty of those teams receving votes in the Pat's poll and his system is automatically tabulated.

Those "RV's" will be eliminated after the first round anyway! ;)

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 07, 2006, 12:06:31 AM
I'm not real worried about upstaging Pat's poll!  And I certainly hope that he is not worried about it either! ;D

While I HOPE all voters are serious about their ballots, this is for fun, not mention in the NY Times!  (Though differences from the d3hoops.com poll may well lead to interesting conversations!)

[In the interests of continuity, I'm not letting anyone in after the second ballot.  I've appealed to people NOT to post unless they INTEND to post every week.  Beyond that, I'm not sure what I can do - I HOPE we won't have a drastic drop-off.  It's not like if they definitely MUFFED most of their picks!  IF we do, and if I have the time and energy, I'll try to post updatd results with only the REGULAR posters included.  But, based on the info I got from YOU, I doubt that will be necessary - they all seem like dependable folks!]
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 07, 2006, 12:20:46 AM
OK!

OS and Ralph, you win!  I'll score all entries as though they are top 25, but posters are free to submit between 15 and 25 teams!

Jeez, is it THAT difficult to say Elmhurst (after losing at home to Millikin) is only the 25th best team! ;D

But, last warning, any more rebellions from the minions and I quit! ;) ;D :P
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 07, 2006, 12:47:15 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 06, 2006, 11:58:07 PM
Mr Ypsi,

Those 50+ essays of college kids is just mindless drivel that they probably have plagiarized off an obscure web site. You have seen the same stuff for decades!


Ralph,

You haven't seen my exam questions - if they can find the answers on websites, more power to 'em!

I do recycle questions every few years - it is truly hilarious when a student gives me an 'A' answer to the WRONG question!  (And it is truly pathetic when a student gives me an 'E' answer to the right (or wrong) question!)

In my statistics classes I even try to warn them: "I'm sick and tired of the SAME wrong answers - here's where students USUALLY go wrong: if you HAVE to be wrong, at least be creative!"  It helps slightly, but not by much!

BTW, my all-time favorite cheating story (I think I've posted this before, but oh well), Robert Angell (emeritus professor at UM, and grandson of the guy for whom UM's #1 classroom building is named) received a paper in 'History of Sociological Theory'.  It rang a bell - HE had written the paper some 65 years before!  Some fraternity files are just too complete for their own good! ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 07, 2006, 02:01:43 AM
I was just trying to make it easier for you!  Limit it to 15 or 20 and your bound to get at least 25 different teams from all the posters.  That's all...  ;)  You still make it a Top 25.

I mean, Pat's poll goes to 25 but then there are like 15 other teams that get votes.  So, just trying to narrow it down for you.   ;D

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 07, 2006, 02:30:52 AM
Quote from: Old School on January 07, 2006, 02:01:43 AM
I was just trying to make it easier for you!  Limit it to 15 or 20 and your bound to get at least 25 different teams from all the posters.  That's all...  ;)  You still make it a Top 25.

I mean, Pat's poll goes to 25 but then there are like 15 other teams that get votes.  So, just trying to narrow it down for you.   ;D



Understood and appreciated!

Just didn't want #23, 24, and 25 to be 2 or 1 'quirky' votes - you've noticed, I'm sure, that the ORV's gets shorter and shorter as the season goes on.  I hope that people will be understanding if the poll results are sometimes delayed, but I'd rather do it right than do it quick!  (NOT to imply that this is a scientific poll, but let's pretend it means something!)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 07, 2006, 08:23:28 AM
I vote for 25. It is a top 25, after all. Without voting for 25 then it's not really a top 25.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 07, 2006, 09:42:59 AM
Quote from: smedindy on January 07, 2006, 08:23:28 AM
I vote for 25. It is a top 25, after all. Without voting for 25 then it's not really a top 25.

I echo Scott's concern. Chuck, hold people's feet to the fire. Make everyone submit 25 teams, and don't count any ballots that have fewer than 25. How much harder is it to list 25 teams than 20 or 15 or 10, anyway?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 07, 2006, 09:52:50 AM
My 2 cents - I agree with Greg & Scott.  I think if you hold it to 25, you will also ensure that you get voters who are really committed -like maybe we should all be committed  ;) .

You can count me in - with great appreciation to you cabs!!!!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 07, 2006, 09:57:07 AM
I'm down for whatever.

And I'm sure it's harder to pick 25 than 10!  ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 07, 2006, 05:25:13 PM
QuoteRalph,

You haven't seen my exam questions - if they can find the answers on websites, more power to 'em!

I do recycle questions every few years - it is truly hilarious when a student gives me an 'A' answer to the WRONG question!  (And it is truly pathetic when a student gives me an 'E' answer to the right (or wrong) question!)

In my statistics classes I even try to warn them: "I'm sick and tired of the SAME wrong answers - here's where students USUALLY go wrong: if you HAVE to be wrong, at least be creative!"  It helps slightly, but not by much!

BTW, my all-time favorite cheating story (I think I've posted this before, but oh well), Robert Angell (emeritus professor at UM, and grandson of the guy for whom UM's #1 classroom building is named) received a paper in 'History of Sociological Theory'.  It rang a bell - HE had written the paper some 65 years before!  Some fraternity files are just too complete for their own good! ;)


ROTFLMAO   :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 08, 2006, 01:41:14 AM
OK, like I said, I'm winging it!

But I'll go with smed, GS, and FDF - to be counted, ballots must have all 25 (otherwise, it DOES mess up the tabulations in the bottom of the poll.

Time permitting, I will send mistakes back for correction (I received the first ballot today, with Stout picked for both 20th and 22nd - if there is not time for correction [or I don't receive a correction], I WILL score such ballots, counting the double at the first spot, and moving everyone up one after the second spot - but please double-check your submissions).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Knightstalker on January 08, 2006, 11:31:06 AM
When is this poll starting?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: hopefan on January 08, 2006, 11:41:35 AM
Yes, when are polls due, based on which games?  (thru Saturday, or Sunday?)


And how do you want them turned in  -  posted here, (which is kind of fun so potshots can be taken), or emailed to you as the most secret and secure data - so we can accuse you of rigging it!!! :D :D :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 08, 2006, 06:38:21 PM
Refer to the opening post on this thread!

(But to briefly answer, polls are through Sunday's games (starting today) and ballots are due by 7pm Tuesday.  Either posting here or emailing me is acceptable.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: David Collinge on January 08, 2006, 06:43:39 PM
Not that it's any of my business, being a non-participant, but I'd advise against posting ballots publicly.  I think posted ballots might influence subsequent votes, thereby damaging whatever integrity the poll has.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 08, 2006, 06:48:14 PM
I agree David. Send Mr Ypsi a personal message on D3Hoops or an email.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 08, 2006, 08:12:45 PM
David and Ralph,

I understand your point (and GENERALLY agree with you) but we posters are such an opinionated lot, I can't really imagine anyone being swayed by someone else's ballot! ;D  (Except perhaps in a beneficial sense of reminding them of a team they meant to vote for and inadvertantly forgot - like someone who submitted by message, but shall go unnamed! ;))

Nevertheless, either email or the message service on this site IS better, but I won't disallow posted ballots.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 08, 2006, 08:38:57 PM
The private messaging service offered by this site does save humiliation! ;)  :D   :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 08, 2006, 11:41:22 PM
Regarding the "posting" issue...  I think if someone decides they want to post their ballot AFTER the posters' poll has been released, that's there own prerogative, but it should be done, officially, by PM or email.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 08, 2006, 11:58:09 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 08, 2006, 08:38:57 PM
The private messaging service offered by this site does save humiliation! ;)  :D   :D

But I didn't 'humiliate' anyone - I might have been tweaking Q or Greg (both famous for their precision to detail) or April (just because I was placed on this earth to 'tweak' her ['swamp tennies' ring a bell]!) or OS for bequeathing me this job or anyone! :D

And now comes the REAL humiliation - I tallied up my OWN ballot before realizing I had not left out a preferred team - I left out the #13!  Good job, stat prof! ;D 

But, yes, the (Australian) secret ballot is a wonderful invention!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 09, 2006, 02:06:39 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 08, 2006, 11:58:09 PMBut, yes, the (Australian) secret ballot is a wonderful invention!

A dingo ate my ballot!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 09, 2006, 02:46:50 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 08, 2006, 11:58:09 PM
But I didn't 'humiliate' anyone - I might have been tweaking Q or Greg (both famous for their precision to detail) or April (just because I was placed on this earth to 'tweak' her ['swamp tennies' ring a bell]!) or OS for bequeathing me this job or anyone! :D

I believe you "volunteered"  ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 09, 2006, 06:49:38 AM
Quote from: Old School on January 09, 2006, 02:46:50 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 08, 2006, 11:58:09 PM
But I didn't 'humiliate' anyone - I might have been tweaking Q or Greg (both famous for their precision to detail) or April (just because I was placed on this earth to 'tweak' her ['swamp tennies' ring a bell]!) or OS for bequeathing me this job or anyone! :D

I believe you "volunteered"  ;D

I'm guessing MY sees it like the military version of "volunteering"   ::)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 09, 2006, 09:03:11 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 08, 2006, 08:38:57 PM
The private messaging service offered by this site does save humiliation! ;)  :D   :D

No, you didn't!  The kinder gentler Mr Ypsi was most gracious in his questioning the glaring omission on my ballot.

The humiliation would have come from this esteemed assemblage of D3-Intelligentsia.  "Whaddya mean you didn't vote for that school?  :o"
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 09, 2006, 11:09:03 AM

Here's what happened since the last d3 poll; it might help you all:

1.   IWU (11-1, 1-1) home loss to North Central, win at Carthage
2.   Wittenberg (12-1, 3-1) wins over Kenyon and at Oberlin
3.   Wooster (12-1, 4-0) neutral win over New Jersey, win at Wash & Jeff
4.   Amherst (9-1) loss at Occidental, win over Williams
5.   Albion (11-1, 2-0) wins at Adrian and vs Tri-State
6.   Hope (13-0, 2-0) wins over Kalamazoo and at Olivet
7.   Lawrence (9-0, 3-0) win over Ripon
8.   Puget Sound (10-2, 4-0) wins over Pacific Lutheran and George Fox
9.   WPI (10-1, 1-1) win at Babson, home loss to Clark
10. Stout (11-3, 4-2) home loss to La-Crosse, road loss to Steven's Point (2OT)
11. York (11-1, 1-1) wins over Brockport State, Lebanon Valley and Messiah
12. Baldwin-Wallace (11-2, 5-1) win at Mount Union, home loss to Wilmington
13. Augustana (12-1, 2-0) wins at North Park and over #16 Elmhurst
14. Wartburg (9-2, 2-1) loss at Loras, win at Cornell
15. Hampden-Sydney (10-0, 4-0) win at Bridgewater
16. Elmhurst (8-5, 0-2) home loss to Millikin, loss at #13 Augustana
17. Randolph-Macon (12-2, 7-0) wins at Bridgewater and over Guilford and Emory & Henry
18. Rochester (8-3, 1-2) win at Rochester Tech, home loss to NYU, win at Brandeis
19. Carnegie Mellon (12-1, 3-0) wins at Brandeis and at NYU (2OT)
20. St. John Fisher (8-2, 2-0) wins at Cazenovia, Utica and Hartwick
21. Lincoln (14-4) wins at Franklin & Marshall, neutral win over Messiah and a neutral loss to Lebanon Valley
22. Ohio Northern (9-3, 4-2) home loss to Wilmington, win over Captial
23. Mississippi College (10-1, 7-1) wins at Texas Lutheran and Schreiner
24. Hanover (8-5, 1-1) win over Franklin, home loss to #25 Bluffton
25. Bluffton (12-1, 2-0) wins over Manchester and at #24 Hanover
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 09, 2006, 01:34:21 PM
I sent my nickel in...
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 09, 2006, 02:30:01 PM
Quote from: smedindy on January 09, 2006, 01:34:21 PM
I sent my nickel in...

Got your ballot, but where's the nickel! ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 09, 2006, 03:29:10 PM

Wouldn't it be a quarter... being 25 teams and all?



Mine is away as well.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 09, 2006, 04:09:54 PM
When's the deadline?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 09, 2006, 04:21:13 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 09, 2006, 03:29:10 PM

Wouldn't it be a quarter... being 25 teams and all?



Mine is away as well.

Yours also received - but about that quarter?!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 09, 2006, 09:18:25 PM
Quote from: sac on January 09, 2006, 04:09:54 PM
When's the deadline?

Tuesday, 7pm.

Since my deadline is so much later (but covers the same set of games), I'm much more worried about voters being influenced by the lastest d3hoops.com poll than being influenced by voters posting their ballots!

Since we have no intention of competing with Pat's poll anyway, what would people say to changing the dates - for example, games through Thursday, ballots due Saturday, 8pm??  (Or through Wednesday, ballots due Friday, 8pm??)  Either way, most weeks I should get results out by LATE the same night, or late afternoon the next day.

For THIS (coming) week, no change from the posted rules, but thoughts?

[I'll monitor the ballots I receive from now on vs. the ballots I've already received.]
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 09, 2006, 11:22:45 PM
Wouldn't that engender confusion between people trying to determine what set of games is included?

Monday at 8 should cover you most weeks from D3hoops poll contamination. :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 09, 2006, 11:43:36 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 09, 2006, 11:22:45 PM
Wouldn't that engender confusion between people trying to determine what set of games is included?

Monday at 8 should cover you most weeks from D3hoops poll contamination. :)

You hear that voters?!  After this week (i.e., tomorrow!) ballots are required by 8pm Monday!  We'll keep the Sunday cut-off on games, but shorten the submission time.  And, in case the d3hoops.com poll DOES come out miraculously early, ignore that man behind the screen!  No, no, Toto! ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 09, 2006, 11:49:36 PM
I like your counting the Sunday games and having the Monday 8pm (EST) deadline for voting.

Having it mirror the same period as the Official Poll will make for more consistent evaluation.

Thanks for your work, Mr Ypsi! :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: diehardfan on January 09, 2006, 11:54:40 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 08, 2006, 11:58:09 PM
just because I was placed on this earth to 'tweak' her

oh, so that why!  :D :P ;)

If only I had time to vote!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 10, 2006, 12:02:00 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on January 09, 2006, 11:54:40 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 08, 2006, 11:58:09 PM
just because I was placed on this earth to 'tweak' her

oh, so that why!  :D :P ;)

If only I had time to vote!

My goodness, hadn't you already figured that out!!  ;D

[Perhaps in the future you won't just drive by my town without saying hello!  ;)]

But, the heck with it, VOTE!  (You can even try Chicago rules [vote early, and vote often], but I'll be checking!)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 10, 2006, 12:07:45 AM
I agree...had I decided to run it, I would've had Sunday's games included and the deadline on Monday, even though I wouldn't post the results until AFTER Pat's poll came out. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: diehardfan on January 10, 2006, 12:14:21 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 10, 2006, 12:02:00 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on January 09, 2006, 11:54:40 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 08, 2006, 11:58:09 PM
just because I was placed on this earth to 'tweak' her

oh, so that why!  :D :P ;)

If only I had time to vote!

My goodness, hadn't you already figured that out!!  ;D

[Perhaps in the future you won't just drive by my town without saying hello!  ;)]

But, the heck with it, VOTE!  (You can even try Chicago rules [vote early, and vote often], but I'll be checking!)

Hey, I said hello, remember? To the street sign! :D

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spogg.com%2Fmembers%2Fshow-image.php%3Fmember%3Daprilrainsong%26amp%3Bid%3D12%26amp%3Bkey%3D94858&hash=cc0c637360977fc628cfa6c970ab72548418748a)

Seriously though, you know how seriously I take d3basketball... I don't have time to do it.  :-X
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 10, 2006, 09:38:07 AM

I want to know who the loser is who will start analyzing the poster's poll vs the actual poll at the end of the year to see which was more accurate.  I'm not suggesting criteria or commenting on anything, just predicting one of us will do it to keep busy this summer.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Knightstalker on January 10, 2006, 11:04:39 AM
My vote is on the way, no money involved here.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 10, 2006, 06:31:48 PM
Quote from: knightstalker on January 10, 2006, 11:04:39 AM
My vote is on the way, no money involved here.

Haven't received it yet, and time's running low!  (I forgot to specify 7 EST; since there are so many CST posters, I won't tabulate 'til 8).

Only nine ballots so far - c'mon people!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 10, 2006, 08:53:20 PM
And the results of our first Poster's Poll!  (Votes reflect the scoring system of HoFers' tripled, Starter and above doubled, all others straight; first place votes, in parenthese, are number of voters, regardless of status):

1. Wittenberg, 441 (3)
2. Hope, 438 (3)
3. Wooster, 437
4. IWU, 436 (2)
5. Albion, 418 (1)
6. Lawrence, 377
7. Amherst, 331
8. Puget Sound, 326
9. Augustana, 317
10. York, 306
11. NCC, 284
12. Hampden-Sidney, 270
13. Baldwin-Wallace, 206
14. Carnegie-Mellon, 201
15. WPI, 194
16. Wilmington, 179
17. Randolph-Macon, 152
18. UW-Stout, 141
19. Bluffton, 140
20. Wartburg, 100
21. Mississippi College, 98
22. UW-Whitewater, 90
23. St. John Fisher, 57
24. UW-LaCrosse, 48
25. NYU, 38

Others receiving votes: Transylvania, 27; Occidental, 26; Widener, 22; Lincoln and Ohio Northern, each 16; Hanover, 8; Carroll, Catholic, and Rochester, each 6; Tufts and UWSP, each 4; Calvin, 2; WashU, 1.

[I'm wondering if Wilmington was a victim of 'coming out of nowhere' - they were completely absent from two ballots (oversight or deliberate?).  If they had been ranked on those ballots at the average of the other 7, they would have placed 13th.]

The top 4 could hardly have been tighter (and Albion wasn't far behind)!  I get the feeling that (at long as they don't LOSE!) what Witt, Woo and IWU do this week is almost irrelevant.  If Hope beats Albion tomorrow I imagine they'll move to #1; if Albion wins, I certainly would not be at all surprised if they jumped to #1.

Thanks to those who voted, and I hope next week's poll will have twice the voters!  (No new voters allowed after next week, so as to maintain continuity.)

p.s., if anyone who has mastered tables wants to clean this up, feel free!  (And, if you are willing, I could email the tabulations to you so you can do it right on the first post! ;D)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 10, 2006, 09:48:14 PM
Great work!!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Knightstalker on January 10, 2006, 09:50:09 PM
I knew I should have sent it to you in an IM.  Do you use AOL as your net provider?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 10, 2006, 10:44:22 PM
Quote from: knightstalker on January 10, 2006, 09:50:09 PM
I knew I should have sent it to you in an IM.  Do you use AOL as your net provider?

No.  Probably the simplest way to submit is this site's private message service.  Otherwise, it is cabonney@netscape.net.

As tight as the top 4 were, I'm curious if your submission would have shaken them up?!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: titanfan on January 10, 2006, 10:55:21 PM
Mr. Ypsi,

Did you get my ballot?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 10, 2006, 11:13:10 PM
titanfan, yes. 

I thought a few of your picks were a bit eccentric, but certainly nothing indefensible! (Except, maybe, #25!?!) ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 10, 2006, 11:17:58 PM
The only question I've got is in regards to the weight given to HoFers and Starters+.  How does that really make it a credible posters' poll if some posters can really change the outcome, especially if there are so few voters.

Wouldn't the poll be more credible if it was one vote per voter?  It sure as heck would make it easier to track (divide the number of votes by the number of voters and discover the average place in the poll, etc).

Just a thought.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 10, 2006, 11:23:29 PM
The idea was that Johnny Come Lately's couldn't influence it.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 10, 2006, 11:33:02 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on January 10, 2006, 11:17:58 PM
The only question I've got is in regards to the weight given to HoFers and Starters+.  How does that really make it a credible posters' poll if some posters can really change the outcome, especially if there are so few voters.

Wouldn't the poll be more credible if it was one vote per voter?  It sure as heck would make it easier to track (divide the number of votes by the number of voters and discover the average place in the poll, etc).

Just a thought.

Gotcha - and already had reached the same conclusion (besides, the differential weighting was a bit of a pain)!

I was trying to lure in HoFers and discourage 'drive-by' newbies, but we only had two of the former and none, really, of the latter.  The ONLY voter in the latter category still had well-over 100 posts.

Since I will not let in any new voters after next week, my plan was to drop the differential voting after that time (but keep it this week for the reasons cited above), but now you've blown my cover!

So far, most voters are in the middle category anyway (even the 'intended' voters like Knightstalker!), and I did reserve the right to disallow ballots (if we suddenly get a swarm of voters naming Maine-Presque Isle as the #1 team!), so I'm at least leaning towards counting all ballots the same.

Comments?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 10, 2006, 11:51:59 PM
If you like the quality of your panel, and believe them to be a fair and representative group, then weigh each ballot equally!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: titanfan on January 10, 2006, 11:57:19 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 10, 2006, 11:13:10 PM
titanfan, yes. 

I thought a few of your picks were a bit eccentric,

Thanks for the compliment!  ;)

From what I've read, I think my number 25 is a pretty decent team.  And when you get to that point, I feel like I had about 10 teams I could have put there, and sometimes you go a little on gut.  Besides, some of the D3Hoops pollsters voted for them too!

All of this brings me to another question.  I'm guessing you are saying some of my votes were a little eccentric because they were different from the other voters.  And I'm assuming the other voters were at least relatively similar based on your comment.  I wonder if that is influenced by the actual D3Hoops.com poll?  

The real question I have, though, and Pat could answer this better, is how much differentiation is there in the individual pollsters picks in the D3Hoops poll?  All we see is the final poll, which we sort of view as the "normal" ranking, but I would guess that most individual pollsters have some anomalys in their rankings.

Just looking at our poll versus the D3Hoops poll, with only 9 posters, we've included both Hanover and Tufts who were not voted for in the D3Hoops poll.  And their poll includes St. Thomas, Elmhurst, New Jersey City, Virginia Wesleyan, UW-Oshkosh, Hamilton, and Maryville (TN), which ours does not.

Not trying to defend my eccentricity!  (though maybe I'm more normal than even I thought!!!) :D

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 11, 2006, 12:03:26 AM
Either we have some group-think or there is a consensus.  Ostensibly, these votes in Mr Ypsi's poll were cast before Pat's Week #6 poll appeared.  Yes, Pat's week #5 was available, but there was considerable upheaval in the Top 25 last week.

Comparing Pat's to Mr Ypsi's:

Five of five agree in #1-#5

Five of five agree in #6-#10

Seven of seven agree in #11-#17

Six of six agree in #18-#23.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 11, 2006, 12:38:05 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 10, 2006, 08:53:20 PM
p.s., if anyone who has mastered tables wants to clean this up, feel free!  (And, if you are willing, I could email the tabulations to you so you can do it right on the first post! ;D)

You won't believe how much work it takes to put all that in table format.  I figured it out, but I don't even put the WIAC pick em league in table format.  The guy in the MIAC page does...

In all honesty, I had a real hard time picking 20-25 and spent most of my time with those rankings, comparing schedules and what not...not to mention those "receiving votes" teams!

I was hoping we'd get more in too...hopefully next week.  Great job Mr. Ypsi.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 11, 2006, 12:52:17 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 10, 2006, 11:51:59 PM
If you like the quality of your panel, and believe them to be a fair and representative group, then weigh each ballot equally!

I certainly think them to be fair (and knowledgable) - representative?  They were self-selected, which puts that immediately into question, but I'm not sure I'd WANT them to be representative of all posters!  Representative perhaps of posters who follow the national scene, but tell me how to assure that!  I tried by not announcing the poll except in this area.

But coming from someone who got triple credit, I certainly will give your advice for equal weighting high consideration (especially since, if your ballot had NOT received triple weighting, my beloved Titans would have been #1 instead of #4 - that's how close the top teams finished)!

Talk it up amongst knowledgable NATIONAL fans - I'd certainly love to see twice the number of pollsters next week (I can handle the computations!).  Though if anyone else wants to handle the table...?

[There were such small samples (5 before the official poll, 4 after) that I d bother with formal computations, but I didn't SENSE any difference between before and after poll submissions.]

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 11, 2006, 01:09:51 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 11, 2006, 12:03:26 AM
Either we have some group-think or there is a consensus.  Ostensibly, these votes in Mr Ypsi's poll were cast before Pat's Week #6 poll appeared.  Yes, Pat's week #5 was available, but there was considerable upheaval in the Top 25 last week.

Comparing Pat's to Mr Ypsi's:

Five of five agree in #1-#5

Five of five agree in #6-#10

Seven of seven agree in #11-#17

Six of six agree in #18-#23.

Ralph, I still haven't compared the polls, but I'm not surprised about the top 5 - I've already expressed the idea that I (at least) think there is a CLEAR top five, with separation before you hit #6.  I simply don't think anyone can bulldoze their way into that group unless someone loses their way out of it.  And that much I saw in both the REAL poll and our poll - the top 5 are virtually interchangable (so close that I suspect the winner of Hope-Albion will be #1 next week no matter WHAT the other teams do).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Knightstalker on January 11, 2006, 06:57:52 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 10, 2006, 10:44:22 PM
Quote from: knightstalker on January 10, 2006, 09:50:09 PM
I knew I should have sent it to you in an IM.  Do you use AOL as your net provider?

No.  Probably the simplest way to submit is this site's private message service.  Otherwise, it is cabonney@netscape.net.

As tight as the top 4 were, I'm curious if your submission would have shaken them up?!
I actually listed my top five in alphabetical order, I just couldn't pick one that one definitely better than the others so I thought that was fairest for this week.  The biggest help I had was the post someone made listing what the top 25 in Pats poll had done the past week.  As I placed teams on my ballot I deleted them from that list.  The other teams being considered by me were the others receiving votes.   
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 11, 2006, 09:12:05 AM
What would the results of this poll be without the weights?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 11, 2006, 09:14:23 AM
I also used the post of how the official top 25 had performed over the last week.

Cabs - you did get mine in there, right?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 11, 2006, 09:54:01 AM

I know Old School and I exchanged a couple of emails last year as to who good poster's poll voters would be.  The big problem I see is that some of the busier posters may not have the time to fill one out (diehardfan already put herself in that category).

I think the poll would be ideal at 25 voters, but probably more managable and decently credible at 15.  You may just want to ask a few people to do it.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 11, 2006, 01:52:15 PM
Quote from: smedindy on January 11, 2006, 09:12:05 AM
What would the results of this poll be without the weights?

For most of the poll, the gaps are too wide to probably make any difference (a couple of teams might move up or down one slot, but that's it), but I was curious enough to re-compute the tightly bunched top 5:

1. Witt 209
2. Hope 208
3. IWU 207
4. Woo 206
5. Albion 197

As I expected, Albion was too far back to catch up, but the top 4 are as close as possible, barring ties!  (And IWU and Wooster did trade places.)

Hope fans might want to coach Knightstalker on his emailing skills - if his 'alphabetic order for the top 5' ballot had been received, Hope would have finished first, 232 to 231! ;) ;D

[FDF, yeah, I got it.]
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: hopefan on January 11, 2006, 02:33:49 PM
Ypsi, I agree with Hoops fan.  In order to come up with 25 teams, I went thru data I had available and ended up checking off about 50 schools!   I waded through about 35 of them noting good wins and who they had lost to, and finally gave up due to time restrictions.   Cutting at 15 would likely have narrowed my review list to a more manageable 25.    I know  -  very anal... but that's the way I felt it needed to be approached rather than swaggin' it.   If you cut to 15 I'll do it next week, otherwise, with my methodology, it's just too much... sorry   :-\ :-\
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: diehardfan on January 11, 2006, 02:52:46 PM
Quote from: hopefan on January 11, 2006, 02:33:49 PM
I know - very anal... but that's the way I felt it needed to be approached

lol hopefan.... and herein lies the reason why I'd never be able to do something like this  :D

I don't do things unless I can do my best, and since I take these things so seriously, I just don't even think it would be a good idea to start! I'd probably use the "look at every single team with a winning record every single week method, including box scores, and that's just not practical, what with juggling, a new job, a new home, church, friends, boys... :D and all my other random activities that you guys couldn't possibly want to hear about.  :P

I this all, there is probably one of the many reasons why Greg, despite all his posts, is one of the few CCIW long time regulars who has a life.  :D ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: diehardfan on January 11, 2006, 02:53:47 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 11, 2006, 09:54:01 AM

I know Old School and I exchanged a couple of emails last year as to who good poster's poll voters would be.  The big problem I see is that some of the busier posters may not have the time to fill one out (diehardfan already put herself in that category).

I think the poll would be ideal at 25 voters, but probably more managable and decently credible at 15.  You may just want to ask a few people to do it.

I remember doing this... and asking Pat for suggestions as well, as to get a good representation from all regions.

Which reminds me... what was the regional breakup of all the posters who voted this time?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 11, 2006, 03:16:32 PM
Hopefan - I think he meant 15 pollsters, not teams.

I think we MUST vote for 25 teams.

I can't speak for everyone, but I pulled two lists of teams, cut them down, and ranked them in about 10 minutes, during lunch. I took it quite seriously, but my methodology self selected about 20 of the 25 teams easily.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: hopefan on January 11, 2006, 04:11:09 PM
ooops right smedindy - I saw 25 and 15, but didn't read close enough....  oh well...  guess I'll stick to following the winless  ...hey what about our bottom 10????
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Coach C on January 11, 2006, 04:14:23 PM
Usually to get a list of 25 teams, I look at about 45 to 50 sets of information each week.  As the season goes on, that should theoretically get easier, but well, it doesn't really.

C
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 11, 2006, 04:36:23 PM

For me, I had about 17-18 schools I knew were in, then it was just a matter of determining who else had a claim in my mind (turned out to be about 20 or so.  From there it was a matter of comparing them to each other, some I put in easily, some I excluded fairly easily and the rest, just took some investiagtion.  Once I got my top 25, I started both at the top and the bottom and ranked my 25 against each other.  It seems more complicated than it really is when I see it written out.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 11, 2006, 05:44:12 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on January 11, 2006, 02:53:47 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 11, 2006, 09:54:01 AM

I know Old School and I exchanged a couple of emails last year as to who good poster's poll voters would be.  The big problem I see is that some of the busier posters may not have the time to fill one out (diehardfan already put herself in that category).

I think the poll would be ideal at 25 voters, but probably more managable and decently credible at 15.  You may just want to ask a few people to do it.

I remember doing this... and asking Pat for suggestions as well, as to get a good representation from all regions.

Which reminds me... what was the regional breakup of all the posters who voted this time?

This past week the nine voters WERE heavily concentrated in the midwest (geographically, not regionally speaking).  I'm not sure about the geographical placement of a couple of voters, but we had 3 with CCIW ties, 2 with WIAC, 1 NCAC, 1 MIAA, plus Ralph (who hails from Texas but is TRULY national), and I can't recall Hoops Fan's loyalties (but, again, about as national as you can get).  If Knightstalker's ballot had shown up we would have also had NJAC (I believe that is correct?). 

You and David have both turned me down - any recommendations from the Left Coast (or can I twist any of your [4] arms to reconsider)?  ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 11, 2006, 05:50:55 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on January 11, 2006, 02:52:46 PMI this all, there is probably one of the many reasons why Greg, despite all his posts, is one of the few CCIW long time regulars who has a life.  :D ;)

It's mostly due to my ability to turn back the clock by flying rapidly around the Earth and reversing the planet's rotation. Keeping up a constant flow of comments on Posting Up while having a bona-fide life outside of this website would be a lot more difficult if the Earth didn't have a yellow sun but instead had a red one like that of my home planet, Krypton.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 11, 2006, 05:55:33 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 11, 2006, 04:36:23 PM

For me, I had about 17-18 schools I knew were in, then it was just a matter of determining who else had a claim in my mind (turned out to be about 20 or so.  From there it was a matter of comparing them to each other, some I put in easily, some I excluded fairly easily and the rest, just took some investiagtion.  Once I got my top 25, I started both at the top and the bottom and ranked my 25 against each other.  It seems more complicated than it really is when I see it written out.

Yeah, my methodology was pretty similar, except I already had certain blocks of teams in my head - e.g., I already was certain of my top 5, just not the order.  My 'short list' was probably only about 32 teams and after the research this week, barring something really eye-popping this coming week, I've only got 4 teams outside my eventual top 25 that I'll keep careful tabs on.

Altogether, my ballot only took about an hour (not counting, of course, the hundreds of hours over the last couple months collecting data and impressions which I didn't even know was for polling purposes!  I thought I was just having fun following d3 hoops - who knew?)! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: titanfan on January 11, 2006, 07:27:06 PM
Does anybody know if there is a good way to get game results for all of the teams into Excel?  I'm trying to set up a database with results, but the only method I can come up with is literally typing in each teams results.  I know some posters out there generate there own sort of "computer poll".  I wondered if they had an easy way to get all of the data.  Thanks!

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 11, 2006, 07:45:32 PM
CHANGES IN THE POSTERS' POLL:

Ballots are due Monday at 8pm (ET) - this is to avoid any 'contamination' by Pat's 'real' poll (though I don't think it happened anyway).  Generally, there are so few relevant Sunday games that you should be able to fill out your ballot after Saturday, just being alert to any Sunday upsets.

Ballots will no longer be weighted by posting status - as explained before, I hoped to lure in more HoFers and discourage 'drive-by' newbies, but neither seems to have been effective/necessary (6 of 9 pollsters were in the middle status).  Since weighting was a bit of a pain, and since I reserve the right to not score 'off-the-wall' ballots (though that will be exercised only in extreme cases), from now on it is one poster, one vote!

To try to get better geographical balance, I am posting on certain boards that I follow which had no representation on the first poll.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2006, 06:37:07 PM
I owe Knightstalker an apology.  By the datestamp on his ballot email, he sent it Tuesday morning - it showed up sometime THIS afternoon!  (All I can figure is it must have been an NSA intercept, and it took them two days to decode the secret message!  If you don't hear from Mr. Ypsi or Knightstalker again, we're probably sharing quarters at Guantanamo! ;D)

When I get the chance, I'll rescore the entire first poll, giving equal weight to all ballots and including this 'submitted on time, received two days late' entry!  (I guess no more cracks about 'snail mail'! ;))
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: dansand on January 12, 2006, 06:58:07 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2006, 06:37:07 PM
I owe Knightstalker an apology.  By the datestamp on his ballot email, he sent it Tuesday morning - it showed up sometime THIS afternoon!  (All I can figure is it must have been an NSA intercept, and it took them two days to decode the secret message!  If you don't hear from Mr. Ypsi or Knightstalker again, we're probably sharing quarters at Guantanamo! ;D)

Chuck, are you going to change your name to Mr. Gitmo?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 12, 2006, 07:01:50 PM
Quote from: dansand on January 12, 2006, 06:58:07 PMChuck, are you going to change your name to Mr. Gitmo?

I think he should change it to Ypsi Gitmo, and embark upon a second career as either a flamenco dancer or a member of the Gipsy Kings.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Knightstalker on January 12, 2006, 09:40:55 PM
I vote for flamenco dancer, I'll be his guitarist.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2006, 11:24:02 PM
Quote from: knightstalker on January 12, 2006, 09:40:55 PM
I vote for flamenco dancer, I'll be his guitarist.

Well, if the NSA did detect some ominous hidden message in your ballot, you'll be there with me! ;)

At any rate, here is the revised first poll (all ballots counted equally, knightstalker's ballot included):

1. Hope  232
2. Witt  231
3. IWU  230
4. Woo  227
5. Albion  222
6. Lawrence  198
t7. Augustana  170
t7. Puget Sound  170
9. Amherst  166
10. York  160
11. NCC  139
12. H-S  135
13. CM  112
14. B-W  110
15. WPI  99
16. Wilmington  85
17. RMC  77
18. Stout  74
19. Bluffton  69
20. Wartburg  58
21. Whitewater  49
22. Mississippi C  48
23. SJFisher  33
24. LaCrosse  24
25. NYU  21

26. Oxy  18
27. Transy  15
28. ONU  13
29. Rochester  11
30. Widener  9
31. Lincoln  8
32. Carroll  5
33. Hanover  4
34. Catholic  3
t35. Tufts  2
t35. UWSP  2
t37. Calvin  1
t37. NJCU  1
t37. WashU  1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 13, 2006, 01:25:13 AM
This revised ballot is a holiday gift to FDF and any other Hope supporters - after the debacle in Albion, it is nice to see Hope in first (however briefly)!

I was curious how solid the 'big 5' was last week - pretty solid!  IWU and Woo had NO votes below 5th; Albion had 2 6ths, Witt had 1 7th, and Hope had 1 8th (interesting that the top two teams also had the lowest votes of any of the top 5).  And who replaced them was quite eclectic: Augie had 1 4th, Lawrence, NCC, and York each had 1 5th.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 15, 2006, 12:20:52 AM
This week's poll is going to be really hard!  ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 15, 2006, 12:33:37 AM
Quote from: Old School on January 15, 2006, 12:20:52 AM
This week's poll is going to be really hard!  ;D

I nominate you for the 'understatement of the week' award!

The old 'big five' is now officially dead - it survived Albion over Hope (if 'big five' teams play each other, SOMEONE has to lose!), but my alma mater put it to rest (at least for now, he says hopefully!).  Two weeks ago I NEVER would have thought that IWU would be the drop-out!

Still, as posted on other boards, they may fall no lower than 6th (or at most 7th) simply due to lack of alternatives.  Lawrence will replace them in the top 5 (I suspect), but who else??!!

Perhaps even more than last week, this poll cries out for starting over from scratch!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 15, 2006, 10:28:23 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 15, 2006, 12:33:37 AMTwo weeks ago I NEVER would have thought that IWU would be the drop-out!

Still, as posted on other boards, they may fall no lower than 6th (or at most 7th) simply due to lack of alternatives.  Lawrence will replace them in the top 5 (I suspect), but who else??!!

You can make a case for moving Augustana ahead of Illinois Wesleyan. I've seen both teams, and Wesleyan is definitely the more balanced of the two. But Augie has a certain quality to it, a certain kind of element, that keeps it from losing ballgames. A good name for this quality might be ... "Rick Harrigan".

Wesleyan has also played a much better non-conf schedule than has Augie. However, the fact that Augie is two full games ahead of Wesleyan in the CCIW standings (4-0 to 2-2), and has joined Albion and Hope in beating the great midwestern barometer (Elmhurst), while Wesleyan has just lost to them, makes for some compelling arguments in favor of the Doggies. I'm not sure if that's the way that I'm going to fill out my own ballot, but if nothing else it's food for thought.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 15, 2006, 11:47:19 PM
Four ballots received so far - and already 36 teams have received votes!

The top is pretty consistent (though the order differs), but it gets REAL messy once you go below about 10.

C'mon guys, I want LOTS of compiling to do tomorrow! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 15, 2006, 11:59:34 PM
I posted what each of Pat's top 25 did this past week.  It took me a while, so I'm not going to do it again for this one, but since they were so similar, feel free to use that as a tool (I know I will, that's why I did it!!).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 16, 2006, 12:03:19 AM
Quote from: PointSpecial on January 15, 2006, 11:59:34 PM
I posted what each of Pat's top 25 did this past week.  It took me a while, so I'm not going to do it again for this one, but since they were so similar, feel free to use that as a tool (I know I will, that's why I did it!!).

Thanks, I already have - that means I only have to check out thersults for a FEW others!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 16, 2006, 09:29:12 AM
Normally I do this each week PS, thanks for saving me some time.  Here is Point Special's list:

#1 Wittenberg 14-1, Beat Earlham and Hiram
#2 Hope 14-1, Lost at #4 Albion, beat Calvin
#3 Wooster 14-1, Won at Allegheny and Wabash
#4 Albion 13-1, Beat #2 Hope, won at Alma
#5 IWU 12-2, Won at Milikin, lost at Elmhurst
#6 Lawrence 12-0, Beat Grinnell and Lake Forrest
#7 Puget Sound 12-2, Beat Whitworth and Whitman
#8 Amherst 10-2, Beat Wesleyan, Lost to Trinity
#9 York (PA) 13-1, Beat Marymount and St. Marys (MD)
#10 Augustana 14-1, Beat Wheaton, won at Carthage
#11 Hampden Sydney 12-2, lost at #14 Randolph Macon, lost at Roanoke, beat Washington and Lee
#12 North Central 12-1, Won at North Park, Lost at Millikin
#13 Baldwin Wallace 13-2, Won at John Carroll, beat Marietta
#14 Randolph Macon 13-3, won at Hampden Sydney, Lost to Virginia Wesleyan
#15 WPI 13-1, Beat Fitchburg St., won at Springfield
#16 Carnegie Mellon 13-1, won at Christopher Newport
#17 Wilmington 12-3, Lost to Muskingum, lost at Mount Union
#18 UW Stout 12-4, Lost to UW River Falls, beat #23 UW Whitewater
#19 Wartburg 12-2, Beat Central, won at Simpson, won at Dubuque
#20 St. John Fisher 11-2, Beat Geneseo St. and Brockport St., won at Rochester
#21 Bluffton 13-2, Beat Franklin, lost at #25 Transylvania
#22 Mississippi College 12-1, won at LeTourneau, won at ETBU
#23 UW Whitewater 11-3 , Won at UW Platteville, lost at #18 UW Stout
#24 Occidental 11-1 , Beat La Verne and Cal Lutheran
#25 Transylvania 12-3 , Lost at Mt. St. Joseph, Beat #21 Bluffton
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 16, 2006, 10:16:44 AM

It took a lot longer than last week with all the carnage, but my poll is away.  Let me know if you got the PM.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 16, 2006, 10:54:54 AM
I didn't want to steal your thunder Hoopsfan.  I just wanted to have a picture of what the world looked like after this week, and I had the work done, so I figured I'd post it!   ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 16, 2006, 11:25:18 AM

THat's fine; I'm glad I didn't have to take the time to do it this week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 16, 2006, 01:43:44 PM
I have so far received ballots from Ralph Turner, smedindy, Flying Dutch Fan, titanfan, knightstalker, formerbant10, and Hoops Fan (including amendments for the last two), plus my own.

Reminder to those who have not yet voted - to avoid being influenced by the real poll, ballots must be sent by 8pm (EST) TODAY.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 16, 2006, 01:46:22 PM
Is your email the place to send these?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 16, 2006, 01:48:01 PM
I find the Personal Message is the easiest way to do it, sac.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Knightstalker on January 16, 2006, 02:09:22 PM
If you send it via email either the commies or NSA will get it.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 16, 2006, 03:26:55 PM
Last week knightstalker sent his ballot Tuesday morning (by the timestamp) - I received it Thursday afternoon!  I've had email not show up at all before, but NEVER before had it show up 2+ days later!  Must have been routed via Pluto.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 16, 2006, 03:28:04 PM
I never let dogs transmit my e-mail.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 16, 2006, 03:29:56 PM

Once in a while the big free emailers (yahoo, msn, etc) will miss an email or will temporarily lose it in their vast web of computer systems.  I've had emails show up sometimes a week late, but the best part is, they insert themselves right into the chronological order of emails, like they know they are sneaking in late.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 16, 2006, 04:33:42 PM

Don't look now, but Ypsi got trumped by Pat again...








... I said don't look; it compromises our poster's poll.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: diehardfan on January 16, 2006, 05:02:25 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 16, 2006, 03:29:56 PM

Once in a while the big free emailers (yahoo, msn, etc) will miss an email or will temporarily lose it in their vast web of computer systems.  I've had emails show up sometimes a week late, but the best part is, they insert themselves right into the chronological order of emails, like they know they are sneaking in late.

Three text messages I sent over my phone on New Year's Eve showed up randomly on the guy's phone over a week and a half later... which prompted him to text me back at six am Cali time while I was still sound asleep. :o Now, granted that these messages are being routed all the way to England, but, still, all the rest of them from that day went through just fine. Technology is funny.... but I guess the really amazing thing is that it ever works at all.

I still can't believe you haven't gotten my week one picks yet Chuck.  :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: formerbant10 on January 16, 2006, 05:05:12 PM
New Year's Eve is the worst time to send text messages, because most of the world is trying to do it at the same time.  That's most likely why they failed to be delivered on time.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 16, 2006, 06:17:46 PM
We've got two new voters this week, expanding our geographical base a bit, but I haven't yet heard from three of last week's voters.  Greg, OS, and PS - less than two hours 'til the polls close!

Other new voters are also VERY welcome.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: hugenerd on January 16, 2006, 06:54:15 PM
Can I just submit the Wolfe Rankings every week, I really think they did a good job this week! ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 16, 2006, 06:58:52 PM
Quote from: hugenerd on January 16, 2006, 06:54:15 PM
Can I just submit the Wolfe Rankings every week, I really think they did a good job this week! ;)

Sure, if you wish, but I found them a bit 'eccentric' myself!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 16, 2006, 07:10:37 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 16, 2006, 06:17:46 PM
We've got two new voters this week, expanding our geographical base a bit, but I haven't yet heard from three of last week's voters.  Greg, OS, and PS - less than two hours 'til the polls close!
Other new voters are also VERY welcome.

I just sent them.  I've been sick all weekend, sorry for the delay.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 16, 2006, 07:22:24 PM
Quote from: Old School on January 16, 2006, 07:10:37 PMI just sent them.  I've been sick all weekend, sorry for the delay.

Ditto, Chuck (except for the sick part). I just sent you my Top 25 via Personal Message.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 16, 2006, 07:23:53 PM
I did too.  I actually WAS sick.   :o  It wasn't fun.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 16, 2006, 07:38:41 PM
Thanks, guys!  Ballots from GS, OS, and PS have been received.

Any more new voters????
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 16, 2006, 08:03:29 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on January 16, 2006, 07:23:53 PM
I did too.  I actually WAS sick.   :o  It wasn't fun.

Just for the record, PS and I were NOT hanging out together this weekend.  ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 16, 2006, 08:12:24 PM
What happens in Vegas D3Hoops stays in Vegas D3Hoops.  ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 16, 2006, 08:16:31 PM
Ironically, my dad is on a flight home from Vegas as we speak... this is getting creapy!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 16, 2006, 08:45:40 PM
Posters' Poll (week 2):

1. Albion, 291 (7)
2. Wittenberg, 284 (4)
3. Wooster, 282 (1)
4. Lawrence, 262
5. Hope, 235
6. Augustana, 227
7. IWU, 225
8. York, 208
9. Puget Sound, 200
10. Carnegie Mellon, 193
11. Balwin Wallace, 183
12. North Central, 154
13. Amherst, 129
14. WPI, 126
15. Wartburg, 124
16. Occidental, 95
17. Mississippi C, 85
17. St. John F, 85
19. Randolph-Macon, 82
20. NYU, 69
21. Hampden-Sydney, 55
22. UW-Stout, 49
23. UW-Whitewater, 40
24. Ohio Northern, 32
25. Carroll, 25

26. Bluffton, 22
27. Va. Wesleyan, 20
27. UW-LaCrosse, 20
29. Widener, 18
30. Lincoln, 15
31. Maryville, 13
32. Transylvania, 9
32. Wilmington, 9
34. Elmhurst, 8
35. UW-Oshkosh, 7
35. UWSP, 7
37. Catholic, 5
38. Cortland, 3
38. Tufts, 3
40. Rochester, 1

Some commentary when I return from picking up my son.

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 16, 2006, 08:51:29 PM
Mr Ypsi, can you add the number of first place votes to the list?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 16, 2006, 09:01:18 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 16, 2006, 08:51:29 PM
Mr Ypsi, can you add the number of first place votes to the list?

Thanks, Ralph, I had that on my tally and meant to do it!  I've edited the poll above to include that.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 16, 2006, 09:21:51 PM
Some caveats on the poll.

Voters, please double and triple check (perhaps against the previous week's poll) to be sure you haven't ACCIDENTALLY omitted anyone you meant to include. 

One voter this week had Albion first, but left Hope completely off the ballot!  I messaged him, but didn't hear back in time - I decided to post the poll anyway, since Hope could not have overtaken Lawrence for fourth, but they are (presumably) much closer to fourth than the poll numbers show. 

Puget Sound was also completely left off one ballot (the other 11 voters averaged about 8th), but that voter has questioned UPS on other boards, so the omission MAY have been intentional.  If not, since being ranked even 16th would have pushed UPS past York, that particular order is iffy. 

WPI was totally omitted from 2 ballots - since the other 10 voters had them (on average) slightly above 14th, and since they only needed 4 points to surpass Amherst, that's another 'iffy' position.

Finally, Mississippi College, St. John Fisher, and Randolph-Macon were all within three points of one another.  MC and SJF were omitted from 1 ballot each, while RMC was left entirely off 3 ballots.  While we're now far enough down the food chain that I have no particular reason to believe these omissions were accidental, if any were, the 17-19 slots would be affected.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 16, 2006, 09:39:39 PM
I wouldn't worry about the "omissions" thats what a poll is supposed to be.

For instance I was one who had Widener solidly in the top 25.  However they didn't crack the actual top 25.  I'm fine with that its my opinion.

As a Hope fan I'm not bothered by being left completely off someone's ballot.........if I saw last Wed's game with Albion and that was my only game to go on, Hope wouldn't have sniffed by ballot.

Interesting that I had 24 of the 25 final teams on my ballot.  I'm going to pat myself on the back for that, I was also pretty darn close to the final poll.

Nice job Mr Y
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 16, 2006, 09:53:50 PM
Mr Ypsi, would a linear regression of the each voter's ballot versus the actual poll give you an idea of some voter who is competely off the mark?

I know I had 23 of 25 Pat's and the first 22 of 25 on Mr Ypsi's.
That double-check leads me to believe that my assessment is approximating the consensus.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 16, 2006, 09:57:01 PM
I don't think its a question of being 'off the mark' - just differing opinions, that's all.

This week I plan to do my first 'power ratings' since I think Massey and Wolfe have calmed down enough - so my top 25 may change a bit (or may not).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 16, 2006, 09:58:24 PM
sac,

Of course I agree with you about teams in the bottom ten of the top 25.  But I figure leaving Hope out entirely is ALMOST certainly an oversight (among the other 11 voters, their LOWEST vote was 6th).

Last week I contacted a voter about a team he had omitted - he replied that he meant to rank them 11th!

I'm certainly not about to contact a voter as to whether or not they MEANT to include Carroll (MY choice for 23rd), but Hope?

The others I cited may well have been deliberate omissions, but other voters consistently had them high enough that I thought they MIGHT have been accidental omissions.

I just want to encourage voters to be certain that the picks they send are the picks they MEANT to send.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 16, 2006, 10:10:04 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 16, 2006, 09:53:50 PM
Mr Ypsi, would a linear regression of the each voter's ballot versus the actual poll give you an idea of some voter who is competely off the mark?

I know I had 23 of 25 Pat's and the first 22 of 25 on Mr Ypsi's.
That double-check leads me to believe that my assessment is approximating the consensus.

a) No doubt it would - YOU want to do it?! ;)  I'll send you the data, if so!

b. All it would tell is how tight the consensus is - if it were PERFECTLY tight, a POLL would be redundant, since any one voter would already tell you everything you wanted to know!  (A person who perfectly matches the poll is NOT adding any 'extra value'.)

c. I think it is GREAT that with only twelve voters we none-the-less had votes for 40 schools.  While a few of those named are not on MY radar, it still gives flexibility.  After all, if you have someone drop out of the poll, they have to be replaced by SOMEBODY!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 16, 2006, 10:14:22 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 16, 2006, 10:10:04 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 16, 2006, 09:53:50 PM
Mr Ypsi, would a linear regression of the each voter's ballot versus the actual poll give you an idea of some voter who is competely off the mark?

I know I had 23 of 25 Pat's and the first 22 of 25 on Mr Ypsi's.
That double-check leads me to believe that my assessment is approximating the consensus.

a) No doubt it would - YOU want to do it?! ;)  I'll send you the data, if so!

b. All it would tell is how tight the consensus is - if it were PERFECTLY tight, a POLL would be redundant, since any one voter would already tell you everything you wanted to know!  (A person who perfectly matches the poll is NOT adding any 'extra value'.)

c. I think it is GREAT that with only twelve voters we none-the-less had votes for 40 schools.  While a few of those named are not on MY radar, it still gives flexibility.  After all, if you have someone drop out of the poll, they have to be replaced by SOMEBODY!

You're the Stats professor!!!  :D

I thought that you could assign it in a Directed Studies Class.  ;D :D ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 17, 2006, 12:12:24 AM
Ralph,

Please re-read b and c above! ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 17, 2006, 09:06:11 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 16, 2006, 09:21:51 PM

Puget Sound was also completely left off one ballot (the other 11 voters averaged about 8th), but that voter has questioned UPS on other boards, so the omission MAY have been intentional.  If not, since being ranked even 16th would have pushed UPS past York, that particular order is iffy. 

I'll own up to it.  That was me.  Honestly, I can't remember if that was intentional or not.  Even so, were I to rank Puget Sound, it would probably not be higher than 22 or so, making the observation above moot (to quote Jesse Jackson from one of the funniest SNL sketches of all time).  I posted about it on the Top 25 board; they have just done nothing other than schedule weak opponents, barely beat tham and exist on the west coast where no one thinks about them.

I also love the fact that no one has any idea what's going on up in Wisconsin, as we have voted for five different WIAC teams this week.  I know I just bit the bullet and lodged three of them at the end of my poll because I honestly couldn't tell which one was better.  Overall the poll was really good.  I might not like some teams getting quite so many votes, but I can't argue with any of those teams receiving at least one vote.  None of them look totally rediculous to me.  Good job all.

Ypsi, so we're locked in at these twelve voters then?  I think that's a good group and a good number.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Knightstalker on January 17, 2006, 10:06:58 AM
I forgot to put Hope on the ballot, I have no Hope.   :'(
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 17, 2006, 02:40:42 PM
I did my power ranking compendium. This will probably influence my ballot a little.

Hope and Albion are down as the power rankings give them no real love - both Massey and Wolfe have them around where I have them on this exercise. SOS is also a factor thre. Some teams bubble up that are surprising.

1. Wittenberg
2. Lawrence
3. Augustana
4. Wooster
5. North Central
6. Baldwin - Wallace (!) - SOS #7 and top 10 in both power rankings.
7. Carnegie Mellon
8. Illinois Wesleyan
9. Hope
10. Albion
11. St. John Fisher
12. York - PA
13. Maryville (!!)
14. Carroll
15. Mississippi College
16. Wisc - LaCrosse (!)
17. Wartburg
18. Coe (!!)
19. Puget Sound
20. Cortland State (!)
21. Bluffton
22. Lincoln
23. Ohio Northern
24. Wisc - Whitewater
25. Loras  (!) - the computers love Iowa, I guess

WPI, NYU, Occidental and Amherst are both hurt by SOS and their power rankings.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 17, 2006, 02:57:47 PM
There's something interesting about Upper Iowa...  I think they've switched over to D-2, but power ratings like Massey still have them at D-3.

This skews the Iowa teams, who still play Upper Iowa.

Never mind, I lied... they don't still play Upper Iowa... but if Upper Iowa is still considered to be in the conference, then the conference may be higher than they should?  I dunno.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 17, 2006, 03:14:20 PM
I don't rate the conferences, and I threw out Upper Iowa, Menlo and CSU- East Bay, which Massey has as D-3 and made sure Minnesota Morris was included, which is D-2 on Massey.

Of course, Menlo and CSU-East Bay do have some D-3 sports, just not hoops.

Upper Iowa is listed as an independent.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Titan Q on January 17, 2006, 03:51:10 PM
"I posted about it on the Top 25 board; they have just done nothing other than schedule weak opponents, barely beat tham and exist on the west coast where no one thinks about them."


We interviewed Puget Sound's head coach Eric Bridgeland before our WJBC broadcast of the IWU/UPS game in California.  He explained that they specifically came to the Westmont College Tom Bryon Classic because Illinois Wesleyan was in the field and they made their attendance contingent on facing IWU on opening night.  At the time this was scheduled (last year) it was clear IWU would be loaded in 2005-06.  Coach Bridgeland explained that they had a hard time finding games vs great D3 teams and this was a perfect opportunity for his program.

He also scheduled a Division 1 team, UC-Riverside.  While UC-Riverside is nowhere near as good as the D3hoops.com poll's top 10 or so, my guess is that they're about as good as the bottom of the poll or the "others receiving votes" teams.  (Riverside is having an awful season but has beaten UC-Santa Barbara and Pacific - a D1 tournament team last year - since that UPS loss.)

NAIA Warner Pacific College, the team that beat Puget Sound, is 15-5.  They were ranked #5 in NAIA II two weeks ago and #15 last week after 2 losses.  I don't know anything about them, but I know that NAIA II top 20 teams are pretty darn good.

http://naia.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl-div2/spec-rel/011106aab.html

Consider how hard it is for Puget Sound to schedule good D3 teams in the non-conference schedule based on their location.  All things considered, I think coach Bridgeland did a pretty commendable job trying to find a few good games. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: TeeDub on January 17, 2006, 04:04:05 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on January 17, 2006, 03:51:10 PM
"I posted about it on the Top 25 board; they have just done nothing other than schedule weak opponents, barely beat tham and exist on the west coast where no one thinks about them."


We interviewed Puget Sound's head coach Eric Bridgeland before our WJBC broadcast of the IWU/UPS game in California.  He explained that they specifically came to the Westmont College Tom Bryon Classic because Illinois Wesleyan was in the field and they made their attendance contingent on facing IWU on opening night.  At the time this was scheduled (last year) it was clear IWU would be loaded in 2005-06.  Coach Bridgeland explained that they had a hard time finding games vs great D3 teams and this was a perfect opportunity for his program.

He also scheduled a Division 1 team, UC-Riverside.  While UC-Riverside is nowhere near as good as the D3hoops.com poll's top 10 or so, my guess is that they're about as good as the bottom of the poll or the "others receiving votes" teams.  (Riverside is having an awful season but has beaten UC-Santa Barbara and Pacific - a D1 tournament team last year - since that UPS loss.)

NAIA Warner Pacific College, the team that beat Puget Sound, is 15-5.  They were ranked #5 in NAIA II two weeks ago and #15 last week after 2 losses.  I don't know anything about them, but I know that NAIA II top 20 teams are pretty darn good.

http://naia.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl-div2/spec-rel/011106aab.html

Consider how hard it is for Puget Sound to schedule good D3 teams in the non-conference schedule based on their location.  All things considered, I think coach Bridgeland did a pretty commendable job trying to find a few good games. 

Is this a shout out for UPS scheduling or a lobby effort to improve IWU's QOWI?....I'm only kidding, I couldn't agree more.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 17, 2006, 04:25:28 PM

Who the heck is Coe?  I didn't even know they were in D3 until I saw Massey this week... I'm not sure whether that's sad for them or sad for me.  What is it about that schedule that makes them so high?  The only two decent teams they've played, they lost to.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 17, 2006, 04:34:50 PM
Their SOS is only 47th,  but that conference is always pretty highly rated in these things. 

They also haven't played the dregs of that conference yet. I'm sure they'll slink down after they play Cornell.

Don't worry, I have 394 teams on this spreadsheet, but I do remember Coe because they came to play at the Wabash tourney when I was in elementary school. It was the first college game I saw, Coe against Wabash. I think they beat Slippery Rock that year too to win it.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 17, 2006, 06:37:28 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 17, 2006, 04:25:28 PM

Who the heck is Coe?  I didn't even know they were in D3 until I saw Massey this week... I'm not sure whether that's sad for them or sad for me.  What is it about that schedule that makes them so high?  The only two decent teams they've played, they lost to.

Aww Hoopsfan, all of those teams west of the Hudson River look alike! :D  :D

Fly-over country, you know! ;) 8)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 17, 2006, 07:02:26 PM
Just in case anyone downloaded, printed, and/or memorized the Posters' Poll when it first came out (are any of us THAT anal?!), please note a correction has been made among the ORVs.  Ralph messaged wondering if Maryville should be tied for 22nd, since they were listed as both 31 (13 pts) AND t32 (9 pts).  The 9 pts listing was actually Wilmington - the poll has been modified.

[And, Ralph, thanks again for questioning that off-line - you're a real gentleman!  But I thought in retrospect I'd better 'out' myself in case anyone hadn't caught the corrected poll.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 17, 2006, 07:28:38 PM
What occurs in Vegas d3hoops stays in Vegas d3hoops! 8) ;D ;)

Thanks for running the Poll, Mr Ypsi!  Actually, everyone ought to have the benefit of a proofreader! :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 18, 2006, 09:50:26 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 17, 2006, 06:37:28 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 17, 2006, 04:25:28 PM

Who the heck is Coe?  I didn't even know they were in D3 until I saw Massey this week... I'm not sure whether that's sad for them or sad for me.  What is it about that schedule that makes them so high?  The only two decent teams they've played, they lost to.

Aww Hoopsfan, all of those teams west of the Hudson River look alike! :D  :D

Fly-over country, you know! ;) 8)

What's worse is that I'm in KC right now (and have been for the last year) doing grad school.  I should have at least run across them at some point.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 20, 2006, 09:49:26 AM
Ypsi,

Any truth to this:

"The Ann Arbor News crime column reported that a man walked into a Burger King in Ypsilanti, Michigan, at 5 a.m., flashed a gun, and  demanded cash. The clerk turned him down because he said he couldn't open the cash register without a food order. When the man ordered onion rings, the clerk said they weren't available for breakfast. The man, frustrated, walked away."
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 20, 2006, 02:57:21 PM
I just wonder where he was at 5:00 am...   :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 20, 2006, 04:36:07 PM
Hoops Fan,

I haven't read that, but I wouldn't doubt it!  Ypsi is generally a pretty safe town (in most areas); apparently one of the reasons is that our bad guys are so freakin' stupid!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 22, 2006, 02:09:45 AM
I hope someone who is smart and has time posts either the Top 25 D3hoops results of each team or the Poster's Poll's results for each team so I have a clue what I'm doing come Monday (or Sunday night)!  ;D ??? 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 22, 2006, 10:18:31 AM
Nice hint Old School. ..........and me too.

I also wouldn't mind if someone included how the "others receiving votes" did this week too.

26. Bluffton, 22
27. Va. Wesleyan, 20
27. UW-LaCrosse, 20
29. Widener, 18
30. Lincoln, 15
31. Maryville, 13
32. Transylvania, 9
32. Wilmington, 9
34. Elmhurst, 8
35. UW-Oshkosh, 7
35. UWSP, 7
37. Catholic, 5
38. Cortland, 3
38. Tufts, 3
40. Rochester, 1


....and maybe some others that should be on our radars.

Should be a little shakeup in the poll this week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 22, 2006, 11:27:17 AM
Okay, here are the South Region ORV's

Maryville TN -- lost at Sewanee 1-5/4-9/5-11
and defeated Methodist.

Va Wesleyan -- won at Hampden-Sydney 68-53, defeated W&L at home 68-53 and plays Raonoke today.

Radar screen--

Howard Payne -- leading the ASC-West.  Nine game winning streak,  11-2/11-3/ 12-3.  Has win over D2 Texas A&M Commerce.

The ASC-West gets very little notice.  The division is brutally tough.  Most road trips are > 3 hours, with 2 nights on the road.

The net effect of the ASC tourney is to take the best team of the 16 (roughly 2 conferences).  When the ASC-West has made it out of the ASC post-season tourney, they have one Elite 8 and 2 Sweet 16 trips (all since 2000).

Mississippi College is solid this year.  They may sweep the ASC-East and finish the regular season 23-1.  The post-season tourney is on the West--at least a 10 hour bus trip for the Chocs.

Southwestern TX is problematic -- notable losses to Hardin-Simmons and to UMHB before their all-ASC point guard did not return for the spring semester.

Trinity has played a national schedule.  Either Trinity is not as good as we think, or Trinity is the "national ambassador"  (a little Texas bravado for y'all ;)) for the quality of D3Hoops played in Texas.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: witt4ever on January 22, 2006, 12:08:24 PM
Week 2 Poll, 
with results from 1/16 thru 1/21. Note some games played 1/22(today).
Errors are possible. Use at your own risk. w4e

1. Albion, 291 (7)   W, Kalamazoo, 64-58, L, Calvin 66-69
2. Wittenberg, 284 (4) W, OWU, 77-60, W, Allegheny 61-56
3. Wooster, 282 (1)  W, Hiram 102-91, W, OWU 103-94
4. Lawrence, 262  W, Carroll 86-81, W, St. Norbert 79-68
5. Hope, 235    W, Adrian 77-51, W, Alma 85-76
6. Augustana, 227   W, Millikin 81-71, W, N Central 85-79
7. IWU, 225  W, Wheaton 87-81 OT, W North Park 78-57
8. York, 208  L, Catholic 67-69 OT, W, Mary Washington 98-93
9. Puget Sound, 200  L, Williamette 68-77 W, Linfield 79-75
10. Carnegie Mellon, 193  L, CWRU 69-72
11. Balwin Wallace, 183  W, Heildelberg 95-75 W, Wilmington 80-68
12. North Central, 154  W, Carthage 79-60, L, Augustana 79-85
13. Amherst, 129  W, Wesleyan 74-69, W, Connecticut Coll 83-52
14. WPI, 126 W, Coast Guard 66-61 W, Wheaton (MA) 82-77
15. Wartburg, 124  W, Buena Vista 94-77, W, Coe 73-71
16. Occidental, 95  W, Whittier 63-43, W, Redlands 112-92
17. Mississippi C, 85 W, UT- Dallas 76-66 W, UT-Tyler 67-57
17. St. John F, 85 W, Rochester Tech 76-55 L, Nazareth 60-62
19. Randolph-Macon, 82 W, Roanoke 57-56, W, W&L 71-67OT
20. NYU, 69  W, Hunter 88-73, L, Wash Univ 59-66, W, Chicago 67-58
21. Hampden-Sydney, 55 L, Va Weslyan 53-68, L, E&H 93-97
22. UW-Stout, 49 W, Platteville 78-73 OT
23. UW-Whitewater, 40 L, Oshkosh 67-68 OT
24. Ohio Northern, 32 L, Muskingum 58-64 W, Capital 74-60
25. Carroll, 25 L, Lawrence -81-86 W, Beloit 79-74

26. Bluffton, 22 L, Mt. St. Joseph 93-105 W, Anderson 63-61
27. Va. Wesleyan, 20 W, H & S 68-53 W, W&L 68-53
27. UW-LaCrosse, 20  W, River Falls 57-55 W, Eau Claire 73-61
29. Widener, 18 W, Moravian 75-60, W, Messiah 76-70
30. Lincoln, 15  W, Montclair St. 100-84, W, Manhattanville 118-101
31. Maryville, 13 L, Sewanee 73-75, W, Methodist 91-51
32. Transylvania, 9  W, Hanover 65-63 W, Manchester 68-52
32. Wilmington, 9 W, Capital 74-53, L, B-W 68-80
34. Elmhurst, 8 W, North Park 64-53, W, Wheaton 87-61
35. UW-Oshkosh, 7 W, Whitewater 68-67 OT, W, Superior 76-55
35. UWSP, 7 L, Platteville 66-70, W, River Falls 70-56
37. Catholic, 5 W, York 69-67 OT, L, Gallaudet 62-65
38. Cortland, 3 W, SUNYIT 76-70, W, Plattsburgh 62-41, L, Oswego St. 55-59
38. Tufts, 3 W, Wheaton (MA) 88-70, L, Williams 80-82, W, Middlebury 80-63
40. Rochester, 1 W, Emory 69-46
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 22, 2006, 01:47:48 PM
witt4ever,

You're the man. Thanks.  ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 22, 2006, 02:51:12 PM
AAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

This is ugly!

QuoteRe: Posters' Poll
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2006, 07:20:04 pm »     

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's limit the number of teams that we can vote for to 15, which will help ease the workload.  From that, we can fill out the remaining 10 in the "Top 25".

I maintain that there are not 25 top teams this week!

But, out of my dedication to my friends, I will try to complete a 25 team ballot! :-\
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 22, 2006, 03:08:08 PM
Well, there are 25 teams who are better than the others. So there always will be a top 25 in the D-3 subset.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 22, 2006, 05:21:40 PM
To update w4e's post, Carnegie Mellon, Randolph-Macon, and NYU all won today (though it took RMC overtime to beat a weak team).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 22, 2006, 08:40:45 PM
To further update with teams that may be on someone's radar: Lincoln, Rochester, Trinity (TX), Virginia Weleyan, and Wash U all won (I didn't see any losing teams today that I think anyone would be likely to consider).

According to the ODAC board, RMC's best player, Wansley, was out today with a (hopefully minor) injury, if anyone wants to take that into account on needing OT to beat a weak team.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 22, 2006, 09:24:49 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 22, 2006, 02:51:12 PM
AAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

This is ugly!

QuoteRe: Posters' Poll
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2006, 07:20:04 pm »     

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's limit the number of teams that we can vote for to 15, which will help ease the workload.  From that, we can fill out the remaining 10 in the "Top 25".

I maintain that there are not 25 top teams this week!

But, out of my dedication to my friends, I will try to complete a 25 team ballot! :-\

While smedindy is, by definition, correct, I DO understand your angst!  I've tallied up 3 ballots so far - there have already been THIRTY-THREE teams receiving votes!  [The top 18 have been unanymous - in fact, have received 53 of the 54 votes for the top 18 spots - but after that it gets wild!  And no, they are NOT the top 18 from last week, in case anyone fears I am contaminating the balloting!] 

In case anyone didn't catch the mathematical implication from the above:  of 21 possible slots in the bottom 7, there have been 15 different teams!  We feel we know who the top 5% or so of d3 are, but we are up a creek on the next few! :o
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 22, 2006, 11:39:03 PM
I don't think mine will fit in, because I had a couple of sleepers in my top 18 anyway. But I'm going to grab my research in the morning and then vote, so I don't miss anyone.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 23, 2006, 11:33:57 AM

I'll be checking out the numbers and submitting my ballot within the hour.  There should be some good shake-ups here.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 23, 2006, 12:13:13 PM
Shake up is correct, but I only lost 2 teams from my poll, the bottom 10 get pretty interesting.

Good week to lose though I guess, as some teams didn't get punished in my poll as much as others.  I also reward a couple schools with a bump over a couple teams for good wins.

I tip my cap to the real D3Hoops.com voters, tough process.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 23, 2006, 12:19:29 PM

It was relatively easy to do my poll.  Obviously it took more time to sort out where everyone ended up, but it wasn't too tough narrowing the field to 25.

It's away, Ypsi.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 23, 2006, 02:13:37 PM
Mine was pretty easy from 1-15 or so...then it got dicey on where to put those mid-range teams that lost.  I had four teams drop out of my poll, but my poll didn't have Ohio Northern in it, as Transy was there in the first place.  My 21-25 is messy with four new teams in there!   I guess I don't like teams losing and they get punished for it!  ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 23, 2006, 03:13:23 PM

I dropped four teams also, but my bottom 5 were pretty sketchy choices to begin with.  Also, I didn't have Puget Sound on the list last week, so I didn't have to drop them this week when they lost to Willamette.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 23, 2006, 06:05:55 PM
witt4ever,

I should have thought of this earlier, but in appreciation for the updates (and since that presumably means you are indeed an observer of the national scene), I'd like to invite you to vote!

I planned to stop allowing new votes after last week to maintain continuity of the poll, but I think we could make an exception.  I'd need your ballot by 8pm ET today (or whenever the real poll comes out - I will not release the PP until AFTER th real poll).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 23, 2006, 06:08:23 PM
8 ballots are in - I have yet to hear from titanfan, GS, OS, and PS (and w4e if he is interested).  Less than 2 hours, guys, unles the real poll is late.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 23, 2006, 06:30:33 PM
Correction: I DO have the ballot ftom OS, I just hadn't checked my email.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: titanfan on January 23, 2006, 06:51:22 PM
Ypsi,

I'm finishing up my ballot right now.  I had planned on doing it at lunch today, but ended up getting caught in a meeting.  I'm so sorry!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 23, 2006, 08:19:13 PM
Ballots received from titanfan and PS.  I'll hold the polls open for another 30 minutes if GS and w4e wish to participate.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 23, 2006, 10:11:29 PM
Posters' Poll, Week Three (parens at end are range of votes):

1. Wittenberg, 270 [7] (1-3)
2. Wooster, 264 [2] (1-4)
3. Lawrence, 252 [1] (1-4)
4. Hope, 240 [1] (1-6)
5. Augustana, 231 (3-7)
6. Illinois Wesleyan, 218 (4-7)
7. Albion, 216 (5-8)
8. Baldwin-Wallace, 198 (6-9)
9. Wartburg, 143 (10-16)
t10. Amherst, 140 (8-19, 1NV)
t10. Carnegie Mellon, 140 (10-17)
t10. York, 140 (10-17)
13. North Central, 136 (9-20)
14. Occidental, 130 (8-19)
15. Puget Sound, 120 (9-15, 1NV)
16. Mississippi College, 116 (8-21)
17. Worcester Poly, 112 (9-15, 3NV)
18. Randolph-Macon, 98 (13-23)
19. Virginia Wesleyan, 63 (10-24, 1NV)
20. UW-Stout, 55 (14-24, 3NV)
t21. Transylvania, 36 (19-22, 4NV)
t21. UW-La Crosse, 36 (16-25, 2NV)
t21. UW-Oshkosh, 36 (18-25, 5NV)
t24. Carroll, 32 (14-23, 7NV)
t24. St. John Fisher, 32 (17-22, 5NV)

t26. NYU, 28 (19-23, 5NV)
t26. Widener, 28 (10-25, 7NV)
28. Lincoln, 27 (3 voters, high 13th)
29. Elmhurst, 11 (4 voters, high 21st)
30. Calvin, 10 (2 voters, high 17th)
31. Trinity (TX), 6 (2 voters, both 23rd)
t32. Bates, 5 (2 voters, high 22nd)
t32. Trinity (CT), 5 (1 voter, 21st)
t32. UW-Whitewater, 5 (3 voters, high 23rd)
t35. Hamilton, 2 (1 voter, 24th)
t35. SUNY-Cortland, 2 (1 voter, 24th)
t37. Loras, 1
t37. Ohio Northern, 1
t37. UW-Stevens Point, 1

Despite the extreme diversity of views on the first 3 ballots, the last 8 only added 6 more teams.  Since 6 teams were mentioned on only one ballot each, we're actually PRETTY much all on the same page as far as the top 25 (or at least 30 or so).

Take a look at Wartburg: NO one placed them higher than 10th, yet they finished 9th!  Consistency matters!

Greg and witt4ever, you are both certainly welcome to join us next week!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 23, 2006, 10:18:34 PM
Well done again everyone.

I think we're pretty solid on the top 8 or 9.  Some big matchups coming in the next week or two from the top ......Witt/Woo, Alb/Hope, IWU/Augie

I must just be completely off on the WIAC with my ballot.......and others found it easier than I did to rank Hope ahead of Albion.  I actually dropped Hope to #6 on my ballot despite winning twice last week.  Head-to-head has a big influence on my ballot.  Again this week I think I have 23 of 25 ranked on mine.

My top 7
1. Wooster
2. Wittenberg
3. Lawrence
4. Augustana
5. Albion
6. Hope
7. Illinois Wesleyan
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: titanfan on January 23, 2006, 10:21:50 PM
Ypsi, what happened to Randolph-Macon?  I'm not totally surprised at them being unranked, but I'm pretty surprised at them getting no votes (based on my insider information and all ;)).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 23, 2006, 10:29:42 PM
Quote from: titanfan on January 23, 2006, 10:21:50 PM
Ypsi, what happened to Randolph-Macon?  I'm not totally surprised at them being unranked, but I'm pretty surprised at them getting no votes (based on my insider information and all ;)).

Oh, s*** - thanks for catching that!  They are #18, which drops everyone below that one notch!  I'll 'modify' the poll ASAP.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 23, 2006, 10:32:39 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 23, 2006, 10:29:42 PM
Quote from: titanfan on January 23, 2006, 10:21:50 PM
Ypsi, what happened to Randolph-Macon? I'm not totally surprised at them being unranked, but I'm pretty surprised at them getting no votes (based on my insider information and all ;)).

Make that 22 of 25.

Oh, s*** - thanks for catching that! They are #18, which drops everyone below that one notch! I'll 'modify' the poll ASAP.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: David Collinge on January 23, 2006, 10:36:42 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 23, 2006, 10:11:29 PM
7. Albion, 216 (5-8)

I have an important question: how did you get this to display correctly?  Whenever I try to put in an '8' followed by a right parenthesis ')', I get this stupid "cool guy" smiley==> 8) How did you manage to override that?  ???
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 23, 2006, 10:36:59 PM
PP has been corrected.  I HOPE it is now accurate! :-[
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 23, 2006, 10:40:11 PM
I'm shocked at the lack of love for Lincoln (I mean, they have losses, but their season is almost over!) and the divergent views on WPI!

I think this is going to be a fun year - lots of good to great teams, a few elite teams, and a lot of "fun" come selection time.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 23, 2006, 10:41:17 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on January 23, 2006, 10:36:42 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 23, 2006, 10:11:29 PM
7. Albion, 216 (5-8)

I have an important question: how did you get this to display correctly?  Whenever I try to put in an '8' followed by a right parenthesis ')', I get this stupid "cool guy" smiley==> 8) How did you manage to override that?  ???

David, I have no clue!

I had noticed that glitch on others' posts, but it has never done it to me - I have no answer.  (I HAD wondered why ballots with parens rather than periods kept giving me this 'cool guy' on #8 and #18!)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 23, 2006, 10:42:36 PM
Perhaps when you string a lot of stuff together like (5-8) it doesn't take it as a smiley guy??

See? It worked.  8)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: David Collinge on January 23, 2006, 10:49:28 PM
You two are too 8) for school.

Maybe I'll figure it out from trial and error.  It looks like (5-8) works, but the other day when I posted in NCAC about the average minutes of NCAC players, I had to show Tom Port as [28.8] because (28.8) looked stupid.  Maybe there's some magic in a hyphen that isn't in a period?  The logic escapes me; but considering that I'm studying for the bar exam, logic escaping me is pretty much an hourly event these days.  :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 23, 2006, 10:56:16 PM
Quote from: smedindy on January 23, 2006, 10:40:11 PM
I'm shocked at the lack of love for Lincoln (I mean, they have losses, but their season is almost over!) and the divergent views on WPI!

I think this is going to be a fun year - lots of good to great teams, a few elite teams, and a lot of "fun" come selection time.

I had Lincoln JUST outside my top 25 (maybe others did too?), but you certainly have MORE love for 'em than anyone else - over 80% of their points are yours!

WPI IS a mystery - the eight of us who voted for them all had them 15th or above (I put them 12th), but three left them off entirely - they would have to answer.  With their schedule, I certainly didn't think it was something to challenge the voter over, but, yeah, I think they probably belong fairly high
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 23, 2006, 11:18:31 PM
When I ran my numbers I was shocked how well Lincoln really stacked up - I thought it was one team I may have had to downgrade with my power rankings, but they were decent enough, and with all of the other losses this week I kept them right there.

I was prepared to really shake things up buy my omissions didn't have that great a week so I was 'saved' I guess.

But with this much divergence in a small poll, one wonders about the actual Top 25. Heck, how about the spread on teams on the AP D-1 top 25!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 24, 2006, 12:12:46 AM
Here are some of my thoughts.

I was pleasantly surprised to see the WIAC well-represented in the Poster's Poll.  I thought I might get a like schtick from Ypsi since I'm a WIAC guy and I had Stout 19, La Crosse 23 and Oshkosh 25.  I almost wanted to keep Whitewater in there, but then I had to drop La Crosse or Oshkosh and neither lost last week.  Whitewater lost their only game last week.

Anyway, on the d3hoops poll, I was surprised to see Oshkosh jump all the way to 21.  What is interesting is that the Posters put La Crosse ahead of Oshkosh and only two no-votes.  But, d3hoops voters didn't even have La Crosse getting any votes at all!

I was one that left Carroll off my ballot.  I used the "Ill. Wes. close win vs. Carthage hurt them more than their loss to North Central" case study.  Carroll hung close to Lawrence and eventually lost.  But, they barely beat a 6-8 (2-5 in conference) Beloit team at home.  Since they were barely in the Poster's Poll last week and just 24 on my previous poll, I dropped them.  It was surprising that Carroll made it into the d3hoops poll (long overdue in my view anyway) even though both weeks they had the same amount of votes (40).

I honestly don't know anything about Widener or Lincoln for that matter, but Widener was just off the Poster's Poll last week and I just stuck them in based on ranking, I guess.

Oh regarding that (5-8) and (8) thing.  If it came up a face, I just put an extra space between the "8" and the ")" like (8 )
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 24, 2006, 12:19:51 AM
I don't get the LaCrosse thing either - by my looks they're the best team in the WIAC.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 24, 2006, 12:28:09 AM
Quote from: smedindy on January 24, 2006, 12:19:51 AM
I don't get the LaCrosse thing either - by my looks they're the best team in the WIAC.

Well, they ARE tied for fourth place!

But, yeah, I had them at 24th.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 24, 2006, 12:44:39 AM
Quote from: smedindy on January 24, 2006, 12:19:51 AM
I don't get the LaCrosse thing either - by my looks they're the best team in the WIAC.

Yeah, I wouldn't go that far.  Based on my observations and scores and posts and such, here are my WIAC rankings, basically how the stands are.

1. Whitewater (won at La Crosse, beat Point, lost at home to Oshkosh)
2. Oshkosh (win at Whitewater, lost at Point, lost at home to Stout)
3. Point (beat Oshkosh, won at La Crosse, beat Stout, lost at Whitewater, at home to Platteville)
4. La Crosse (lost at home to Point and Whitewater, won at Stout, won at Platteville).
5. Stout (lost at Point, lost at home to River Falls and La Crosse, won at Oshkosh).

tough to say who's the best here and, yeah, no one has separated themselves yet!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 24, 2006, 08:51:39 AM
I solved the smiley thing by adding a space before and after the 8, like this ( 8 )  I'm not sure how it works with multiple numbers in there.

I wanted to get Lincoln on there, but I am going to wait and make sure they beat Richard Stockton again before I let them back in.  I'm a big fan of Lincoln, but they slowed down a little in the middle of their season (to be expected, but still).

What is really confusing me is that OAC.  They have like five teams with borderline resumes, but they all beat each other and most all of them have one really bad loss.  I think I left ONU in there at #25, but that was wacky.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 24, 2006, 09:20:20 AM
LaCrosse has the best profile amongst the WIAC in my power rating amalgamation.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 24, 2006, 01:21:47 PM
I'll give my take on the WIAC when I get back from class @ 2:00.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 24, 2006, 04:19:18 PM
I'm going to go through this team by team... and I consider the "contenders" to be Oshkosh, Point, La Crosse, Whitewater, and Stout

Oshkosh (7-2)  3-1 at home 4-1 on the road

Home vs. Point (tomorrow)
At River Falls
At La Crosse
At Stout
Home vs. EC
Home vs. Whitewater
Home vs. Platteville
(two home, two away vs. "contenders)

Point (7-2) 4-1 at home 3-1 on the road

At Oshkosh (tomorrow)
At Eau Claire
Home vs. La Crosse
Home vs. Whitewater
At Stout
At Platteville
Home vs. Superior
(two home, two away vs. "contenders")

Whitewater (6-2) 3-1 at home 3-1 on the road

Home vs. La Crosse
Home vs. Stout
Home vs. Platteville
At Superior
At Stevens Point
Home vs. River Falls
At Oshkosh
At Eau Claire
(two home, two away vs. "contenders")

La Crosse (6-3) 3-2 at home 3-1 on the road

At Whitewater
At Superior
Home vs. Oshkosh
At Point
Home vs. Platt
At RF
Home vs. Stout
(two home, two away vs. "contenders")

Stout (6-3) 2-2 at home 4-1 on the road

Home vs. EC
At Whitewater
At RF
Home vs. Oshkosh
Home vs. Superior
Home vs. Point
At LaX
(two home, two away vs. "contenders")

Platteville (4-5) 1-4 at home 3-1 on the road

at EC
at WW
Home vs. RF
at LaX
Home vs. Sup
Home vs. SP
at Oshy
(one home, three away vs. "contenders")

I think Oshkosh loses two of the next four games.  They beat Platte and EC, and the WW game is a "pick"
I think Point loses two of the next four games.  They beat Superior, but the Platte and Stout games are "picks"
I think WW loses one of the next three, with the other two being "gimme's", and they lose at least one of the last 5.  WW is at a "disadvantage" because they have their bye the first week of the second round, IMO.  They didn't play, but they lost ground.
I think La Crosse loses two of the next four games.  The rest of the "gimme's" they win, and the finale vs. Stout is a pick.
I think Stout loses one of the next four, and one of the last two.

Platteville is the wildcard.  They are 1-4 at home right now.  They play Point (who they beat) and Superior and RF, games they *should* win.  However, they are 3-1 on the road.  They go to EC tomorrow (*should* win), and to Oshkosh, La Crosse, and Whitewater.  They've played better on the road than at home, and they're playing these road games against contenders.  They have the potential to knock some teams off.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 24, 2006, 04:19:48 PM
Oshkosh may have the advantage.  They're leading the conference right now, and they have the other conference leader, Point, at their place tomorrow.  Also, their last 3 games are at home, which should be to their advantage.

Depending what happens in Oshkosh tomorrow, Point may be looking good, or may not.  If the Pointers win, then they get a "day off" from the conference, and they can rest by going to Edgewood for their last non-con.  Then they go to EC, and after that, focus on La Crosse and Whitewater.  Point really has a pretty tough schedule, with four tough games in a row (home vs. La X, and WW, away at Stout and Platte).  Because they are a relatively young team, we will really see the job Semling has done and see if they can keep it together for the entire season.  (I'm hoping so!)  If Point loses to Oshkosh tomorrow, then I think their season has the potential to unwind, especially during that string of 4 tough games.

Whitewater is on a 2 game slide right now, but they've got 4 more home games in a row (one non-con).  If they can take care of those, they'll be in a pretty good spot, but 4 of their last 5 are on the road, and it's tough to travel in Wisconsin in February.  They also have an additional game to play because of their bye, and with the non-con game, they've got 3 games in 4 days at the end of Feb.  They're all at home, but the conference games are against LaX and Stout.

Stout has 3 straight home games in Feb, two against contenders, but they end their reg season at La Crosse.  This game has the potential to have HUGE ramifications for who wins the conference.

La Crosse has struggled a bit at home and done better on the road, and they'll be tested with the next two games on the road.  They probably have the most "even" schedule of the contenders because they play hom/away/home/away etc towards the end of the year.

All told, I think Oshkosh or Stout end up with the conference title.  All of the other teams have tougher paths to the conference title.

In all likelyhood, I'm very wrong.  The WIAC has a way of bucking trends and defying conventions.  The "bottom 3" will likely win some games and throw a wrench in the mess.  I still think that Platteville is almost a contender... if they get hot, and can win the rest of their games, then they've got a shot, but if they lose another, they're pretty much done.  They still can play spoiler, I think, and a loss to Platteville may mean the doom of any of the top 5.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 24, 2006, 09:31:06 PM
WIAC fans, Point mentioned Platteville.

The inter-region games are always interesting.  As I look at the area around Chicago and Wisconsin, I see multiple conferences and plenty of opportunites to boost your own record on the backs of weaker programs,

Was the Platteville 85-88 loss to Concordia-Austin (3-12 overall) on December 31st a fluke?  Did they have a let down after the win over UMHB?  Just trying to find out how good Platteville is...

http://www.d3hoops.com/releases.php?release=43470

Do Wisconsin schools not handle uptempo well?

Thanks. :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 24, 2006, 09:49:42 PM
Platteville's tough to figure out.  I mean, they ...  hanged?  hung?    ...  I think they hung with Robert Morris (Chicago), beat MH-B, beat UWSP (ending a 29 game home winning streak), they beat Elmhurst, they hung with Stout (twice, second time was in OT) Whitewater and Oshkosh.  Now, all three of the conference losses to those teams WERE at home (well, the first one was at Stout)... but Platteville has been right in those games.

I think they've played one of the tougher schedules in the conference.  RM-Chi, Elmhurst, and MH-B are three of the better opponents schedules for teams in the WIAC.

I think (clearly, you're replying to my post!) that Platteville will have some say in who comes out of the WIAC.  I haven't seen them play (I missed this second to last game when Point lost to Platte at home), so someone else may be a better judge, but I think they have the potential to pinch some teams that might look past them.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: David Collinge on January 24, 2006, 10:02:29 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on January 24, 2006, 09:49:42 PM[...]I think they have the potential to pinch some teams that might look past them.

My, how cheeky!  I expect they'd get slapped if they tried it, though.  Fresh!  :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 24, 2006, 10:14:16 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on January 24, 2006, 10:02:29 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on January 24, 2006, 09:49:42 PM[...]I think they have the potential to pinch some teams that might look past them.

My, how cheeky!  I expect they'd get slapped if they tried it, though.  Fresh!  :D

Nice riposte, David (still avoiding studying for the Bar, I see!).

I was just about to copy PS, then edit down to the same phrase, so I'll copy your copy instead!

PS, isn't that true of ANY WIAC team (except probably Superior, and perhaps RF this year)?!  It's true of at least 7 of the 8 CCIW teams - overlook them and die!  I would think that for AT LEAST 7 of the 9 WIAC teams it is the case that if you take them for granted, you're gonna regret it!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 24, 2006, 10:30:28 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on January 24, 2006, 09:49:42 PM
Platteville's tough to figure out.  I mean, they ...  hanged?  hung?    ...  I think they hung with Robert Morris (Chicago), beat MH-B, beat UWSP (ending a 29 game home winning streak), they beat Elmhurst, they hung with Stout (twice, second time was in OT) Whitewater and Oshkosh.  Now, all three of the conference losses to those teams WERE at home (well, the first one was at Stout)... but Platteville has been right in those games.

I think they've played one of the tougher schedules in the conference.  RM-Chi, Elmhurst, and MH-B are three of the better opponents schedules for teams in the WIAC.

I think (clearly, you're replying to my post!) that Platteville will have some say in who comes out of the WIAC.  I haven't seen them play (I missed this second to last game when Point lost to Platte at home), so someone else may be a better judge, but I think they have the potential to pinch some teams that might look past them.

Point, thanks.  UMHB, the pre-season pick to win the ASC-West, failed to get any votes in the D3Hoops.com Pre-season Poll.  UMHB lost at D1 McNeese State 63-68 on opening night and then at UOzarks the next week.  They have not received a Top 25 vote all year.

Thank you for the props to the ASC and UMHB.  The ASC has 9 wins, 11 losses and 5 byes (one Elite 8 and 4 Sweet 16's) in the NCAA playoffs since 1998.  The South Region is a rather average region, maybe 4th or 5th strongest, ahead of the NE, the East, the Mid-Atlantic and maybe tied with the NJAC, er, Atlantic Reigon.

The WIAC and the ASC have had a good relationship in football, and with the migration of Austin College to the SCAC, the ASC football teams will need non-conference games.  I would hope to see a similar relationship in basketball.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 24, 2006, 10:57:56 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on January 24, 2006, 10:02:29 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on January 24, 2006, 09:49:42 PM[...]I think they have the potential to pinch some teams that might look past them.
My, how cheeky!  I expect they'd get slapped if they tried it, though.  Fresh!  :D

Pinch, slap, catch with their pants down... it's all the same  ;)

And Ypsi, yes, of course you need to watch out for ALL the WIAC teams.  I mean, I expect that BOTH River Falls and Eau Claire will factor in, in some way or another (and it isn't necessarily by BEATING a team... they may tire a team out by taking them to OT, which leads to a loss... the rigors of the WIAC, rearing its ugly head?).  My point about Platteville is that they have the potential of knocking off one, two, three, four, heck, even all FIVE of the contenders, if they get hot.  I'm not going to go so far as to predict that, but they're well coached, and I think they've shown that they have the potential (a dangerous work, but I use it nonetheless) to do well.

I saw some of the Sul Ross St./Lawrence game two years ago out in Tacoma for their Sweet 16 game OT game.  Sul Ross looked pretty darn good (I mean geez, they had something like a 16 point lead in the second half and were taken to OT and beaten).  I would have seen more but I accidentally put my fist through a locker room window trying to close it before the game (long story, I was ok... but try explaining to Coach Bennett why you've gotta get the trainer BEFORE warm-ups even start...!)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 24, 2006, 11:52:07 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 24, 2006, 10:14:16 PM
PS, isn't that true of ANY WIAC team (except probably Superior, and perhaps RF this year)?! 

I thought the same thing until River Falls went into Stout and beat them.

If anything, it might be EC and Superior...but going to Superior is never a fun trip!  ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: BVHawk on January 25, 2006, 02:07:13 PM
The WIAC always beats up on each other.  Kind of like the Big Ten of D1...
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Knightstalker on January 25, 2006, 02:48:35 PM
I really wanted to give an NJAC team a vote for number 25 this week but they are doing the same thing the WIAC is doing, beating each other up.  I figured that Ramapo, NJCU or WPU would start to pull away last week but it did not happen.  Right now the NJAC has two 7-3 teams (WPU and NJCU) Three 6-4 teams (RCNJ, RSC and RU-Newark) Three 5-5 teams (MSU, KEAN and TCNJ, one 3-7 team (Rowan) and 0-10 Rutgers Camden bringing up the rear. 

I think NJCU, WPU and Ramapo are NJAC tournament locks.  Nine of the ten teams are still in the running for the six spots in the NJAC tournament.  Typical season in NJ.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 25, 2006, 11:03:19 PM
Sorry I couldn't contribute to this week's poll, Chuck, but my computer time has been extremely limited this week. I should be back to submit a ballot next week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 25, 2006, 11:53:47 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 25, 2006, 11:03:19 PM
Sorry I couldn't contribute to this week's poll, Chuck, but my computer time has been extremely limited this week. I should be back to submit a ballot next week.

Simply out of curiosity, how would that 3-way tie at tenth have been broken if we had had that one more ballot?!  Would any of them have beaten Wartburg for 9th?  And would NCC have been higher than 13th?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 26, 2006, 02:18:55 PM
Augustana #1?

Maybe.  ;D

They just beat Ill. Wes at the Shirk (sp?).  They have ONE loss and that was AT Stout (a ranked opponent) and have gone undefeated in the "nearly impossible to go undefeated" conference, the CCIW, which has had four teams ranked.  Wow. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 26, 2006, 02:34:39 PM
Hey, the CCIW season isn't over yet! Because you said that, Augie will probably lose three of their next five.

Hard to knock my teams out from ahead of them if they keep winning, though.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 26, 2006, 04:45:56 PM

The CCIW schedule is only about half over, so its tough to give them too much credit (or much more than they are already getting).  Augie was #3 in my poll this past week.  I voted Lawrence #1; I think they've earned it so far.  I'll get to see them on Saturday, so we'll see what a face-to-face does for me.  And as much as I feel Witt is overrated, I have no evidence to back that up of yet, so they will probably remain #2 as long as they win.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 26, 2006, 06:42:49 PM
Until Augie won at the Shirk last night, they had 'merely' won the conference games they were 'supposed' to win.  IF they can win AT Elmhurst on Sunday as well, I think I would have to vote them #1 - that would be one IMPRESSIVE week!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 26, 2006, 08:10:08 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 25, 2006, 11:53:47 PMSimply out of curiosity, how would that 3-way tie at tenth have been broken if we had had that one more ballot?!  Would any of them have beaten Wartburg for 9th?  And would NCC have been higher than 13th?

I would've put Carnegie Mellon ninth, Amherst tenth, Wartburg eleventh, North Central twelfth, and York (PA) thirteenth.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 26, 2006, 08:47:01 PM
OK, so unofficially we now have CM 10th, Amherst 11th, and York 12th, with Wartburg still 9th and NCC still 13th.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 27, 2006, 12:03:40 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 26, 2006, 04:45:56 PM

The CCIW schedule is only about half over, so its tough to give them too much credit (or much more than they are already getting).  Augie was #3 in my poll this past week.  I voted Lawrence #1; I think they've earned it so far.  I'll get to see them on Saturday, so we'll see what a face-to-face does for me.  And as much as I feel Witt is overrated, I have no evidence to back that up of yet, so they will probably remain #2 as long as they win.

Aren't we basing the current polls on what's happened so far?  Who cares if the CCIW schedule is only half over?

I have seen Lawrence play several times the last two years and they are very good.  Braier is a stud.  They've beaten Oshkosh three years in a row now and have an unblemished record.  But, based on the schedule, I'm more impressed with Auggie.  They are in a superior conference and have only one loss (away to ranked Stout) while big wins over conference and ranked foes.  Like I said, I like Lawrence and without Point (most likely) in their way this year, they are bound to do some NCAA damage.  But, Auggie is more impressive thus far based on what I've read and seen in terms of scores, IMO.

Of course, I've had Lawrence ranked higher than Auggie in my polls...so, what do I know!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 27, 2006, 12:20:46 AM
In my eyes, Witt and Wooster have done nothing wrong to make me think my judgement is faulty, and Lawrence is still sitting on that donut in the right column.

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 27, 2006, 12:22:36 AM
OS, FYI,

There are some Augie supporters who take great umbrage at the double 'g' in Augie/Auggie.  I know you mean no offense, but be forewarned!  Some of them can get downright nasty!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 27, 2006, 12:33:24 AM
Smed,

I don't mean to in anyway impugn Witt, Woo, or Lawrence, but if Augie can beat IWU IN Bloomington and Elmhurst IN Elmhurst in the same week, I've gotta think they just did something that NO other d3 team could accomplish.

MAYBE one or more of the first three could have done it, but they haven't and we'll never know if they could have (barring some really unlikely matchup in the postseason!)  To ME, IF Augie pulls that off (and I have picked Elmhurst in the pickems - though I also picked IWU, so what the hell do I know!), they are #1.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 27, 2006, 01:19:53 AM
Quote from: smedindy on January 27, 2006, 12:20:46 AM
In my eyes, Witt and Wooster have done nothing wrong to make me think my judgement is faulty, and Lawrence is still sitting on that donut in the right column.

I aggree to a point.  Don't think that I don't think Witt, Wooster and Lawrence aren't any ggood.  I think they are all ggreat teams.  If none of those three teams lose their next ggames, I'm not ggoingg to vote Auggustana #1, believe me.  Until those aforementioned teams lose, Aggustana won't jump them, I don't think.

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 27, 2006, 12:22:36 AM
OS, FYI,

There are some Augie supporters who take great umbrage at the double 'g' in Augie/Auggie. I know you mean no offense, but be forewarned! Some of them can get downright nasty!

Mr. Ypsi,

Thanks for the heads up.  ;D  I have a friend and his last name is Augustine.  Sorry for the double "g" thing.  I'll be sure not to use it unless I'm criticizing Augustana! lol.  :P

I understand.  There are some posters I've seen say Steven's Point, not Stevens Point
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 27, 2006, 09:28:11 AM

OS,

I didn't mean to doubt your claim that Augie is most impressive; they probably are.  However, you seemed to imply (with the "they've gone undefeated in the impossible to go undefeated CCIW" comment) that they were done with the tough schedule.  They have been impressive thus far, but it is the CCIW and they have a long way to go.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 27, 2006, 09:32:49 AM
Ypsi - Now it's impressive, yes, but somehow I don't think it's totally something that could be unique to Augie. There are a lot of decent teams who are good road warriors and unafraid. Half the battle on the road is not being intimidated.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 27, 2006, 12:00:38 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 27, 2006, 12:22:36 AM
OS, FYI,

There are some Augie supporters who take great umbrage at the double 'g' in Augie/Auggie.  I know you mean no offense, but be forewarned!  Some of them can get downright nasty!

Augsburg in Minnesota goes by the Augsburg Auggies! lol  :P
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 27, 2006, 08:48:28 PM
Quote from: Old School on January 27, 2006, 12:00:38 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 27, 2006, 12:22:36 AM
OS, FYI,

There are some Augie supporters who take great umbrage at the double 'g' in Augie/Auggie.  I know you mean no offense, but be forewarned!  Some of them can get downright nasty!

Augsburg in Minnesota goes by the Augsburg Auggies! lol  :P

Texas A&M University goes by the Texas Aggies, without the "u"!   There is an entire series of joke books written about them.  :P ;D :D :D :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 27, 2006, 08:55:25 PM
Yeah, but Ralph, graduates of A&M spell it Aggriculture.  (Well, most of 'em miss a few other letters too, but you get the drift!)

(Gee, and I'm not even a Longhorn!)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 27, 2006, 10:18:13 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 27, 2006, 08:55:25 PM
Yeah, but Ralph, graduates of A&M spell it Aggriculture.  (Well, most of 'em miss a few other letters too, but you get the drift!)

(Gee, and I'm not even a Longhorn!)

:D :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 29, 2006, 02:58:26 PM
When I get home from soccer tonight, I EXPECT a full list of wins and losses by teams in and around the Poster's Top 25 Poll tonight.  Just to forewarn you of my expectations.  ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 29, 2006, 05:59:19 PM
With Augie/Elmhurst done I submitted my poll a few minutos ago.

No big changes, 3 teams out 3 former teams in.  Not a lot of movement for me.  But one team crashed out with 2 losses this week.

I expect a big time shakeup with next weekend high profile tilts.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 29, 2006, 07:06:59 PM
I submitted my poll this week.  I feel much better about this week's.  Miss College has a good test against UOzarks in Clarksville on Saturday.  With the exception of some of the travel partners, almost all of the road trips in the ASC, both East and West, are at least 3-4 hour bus rides.  Miss College has a 5-6 hour trip to Austin College on Thursday, then a 4-hour trip to Clarksville AR on Friday for the Saturday game.

The smiley face by #8 has no significance...just forgetting the results of "8 )"

(For those who don't know, MissColl and McMurry are fierce rivals, so there is no love lost.  "The higher they rise, the harder they fall."  MissColl is carrying the ASC banner, so I can tolerate a little success ... until the post-season tourney. ;D )
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 29, 2006, 08:57:46 PM
Just to assure posters that ballots received, I have them from sac and Ralph Turner.

I'll let you guys decide whether this is good or bad: you agreed on exactly ONE team as far as position, but 23 of 25 for the top 25!  (You were pretty close most of the time, but one team differred by 13 spots!  And, of course, I have no way of knowing how different you were on the 2 teams each other left off the ballot.))
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 29, 2006, 11:35:05 PM
Was it WPI?  ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: iwumichigander on January 30, 2006, 12:22:48 AM
OK - I will weigh in on Augie - NOT #1.   Yes, Augie is 18 -1 overall and 8 - 0 in CCIW.  As Augie posters have noted; Augie has done just enough to put up a "W" in the CCIW.  Its 8 game CCIW win margin is 5.6 pts.  Exclude a 14 win over North Park (2 - 6) and 10 pt win over Millikin (2 - 6); Augie margin is 3.5 pts. -- with five 3 pt wins and one 6 pt win -- not exactly dominating stuff.  Then I look at the non-conference body of work -- just one Top 25 team (unless I missed something) which was a loss to UW-Stout.
For a #1, I look at the entire body of work, for consistency and improvement.  I just don't see the improvement.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 30, 2006, 12:23:24 AM
Quote from: sac on January 29, 2006, 11:35:05 PM
Was it WPI?  ;D

No, they were only your third biggest disagreement (unless the 'no votes' were even bigger.  No further divulgences until the polling is complete!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 30, 2006, 12:29:28 AM
Where is my poster's poll results for the week???  ???  :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 30, 2006, 12:38:19 AM
Quote from: Old School on January 30, 2006, 12:29:28 AM
Where is my poster's poll results for the week???  ???  :D

Huh?  I posted the results.

I will elaborate so far as discretion allows on the board.

(And will, on a case-by-case basis perhaps elaborate even further on 'messages'.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 30, 2006, 01:58:32 AM
I meant that nice convenient list of Top 25 teams from the Poster's Poll and how they did this past week. 

i.e.

Wittenberg beat blah blah blah
Augustana beat blah blah blah
Ill. Wes. lost to blah blah blah...

Come on Ypsi, get with the program! lol.  :P
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: augie_superfan on January 30, 2006, 02:19:06 AM
iwumichigander,

I think you arguement about Augie's small margin of victory is not as big of a deal as you are making it sound.  You have to look at the style that Augie plays.  Their tough defense leads to games that can sometimes become "ugly" and games that seem like a war of attrition.  They are not a team that is going to blow many people out by 20-30 points...that's just not how they work.  They run their motion offense and eat up a lot of the shot clock in the process which causes them to shoot the ball only about 50 times a game.

Also, one of the reasons that improvement may not be apparent is due to the fact that they are playing tougher games in the CCIW than they did in the non-conference portion.  You know how the CCIW is, many close, hard fought games, especially this year. 

I don't know if Augie is a #1 team or not and I don't really care but the one thing this team has proved over and over again is that it has some clutch players that step it up at the ends of games and know how to close out a game (at home or on the road).  They might just be the #1 team in the nation in terms of that.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 30, 2006, 02:30:25 AM
Quote from: Old School on January 30, 2006, 01:58:32 AM
I meant that nice convenient list of Top 25 teams from the Poster's Poll and how they did this past week. 

i.e.

Wittenberg beat blah blah blah
Augustana beat blah blah blah
Ill. Wes. lost to blah blah blah...

Come on Ypsi, get with the program! lol.  :P


But that was never me!  Get on witt4ever's case - if he does it one week, he is morally obligated to do it forever!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 30, 2006, 09:21:07 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 30, 2006, 12:23:24 AM
Quote from: sac on January 29, 2006, 11:35:05 PM
Was it WPI?  ;D

No, they were only your third biggest disagreement (unless the 'no votes' were even bigger.  No further divulgences until the polling is complete!

Now I'm on the edge of my seat, give it to me in a personal message.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 30, 2006, 09:56:04 AM

Ironically, my top 12 stayed exactly the same this week.  Maybe the teams are settling into a normal pattern for now.

Poll is away Ypsi.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: witt4ever on January 30, 2006, 11:27:57 AM
Since you begged, here you go........w4e
Week 3 Poll, with results from 1/23-1/29
1. Wittenberg, 270 [7] W, Wabash 63-48, W, Denison 74-49
2. Wooster, 264 [2] (1-4) W, Kenyon 76-63, W, Earlham 99-63
3. Lawrence, 252 [1] (1-4) W, Monmouth 75-68, W, Grinnell 98-79
4. Hope, 240 [1] (1-6) W, Tri-State 75-69  W, Kalamazoo 91-63
5. Augustana, 231 (3-7)  W, IWU 57-54 W, Elmhurst 63-60
6. Illinois Wesleyan, 218 (4-7) L, Augustana 54-57 W, Carthage 95-61
7. Albion, 216 (5-8) W, Olivet 73-56 W, Adrian 85-46
8. Baldwin-Wallace, 198 (6-9)    W, John Carroll 78-56 W, Marietta 93-66
9. Wartburg, 143 (10-16) W, Central 69-51 W, Dubuque 86-66 W, Simpson 76-67
t10. Amherst, 140 (8-19, 1NV) W, Babson 78-51 W, Bowdoin 86-72 W, Colby 78-59
t10. Carnegie Mellon, 140 (10-17) L, Chicago 80-77 W, Wash U 86-80
t10. York, 140 (10-17) W, Galludet 73-60 W, Salisbury 96-62
13. North Central, 136 (9-20) L, Elmhurst 91-94 W, Wheaton 77-60
14. Occidental, 130 (8-19) W, Claremount-Mudd Scripps 52-48 W, Pomona Pitzer 53-52
15. Puget Sound, 120 (9-15, 1NV) W, L&C 94-64 W, Pacific 82-64
16. Mississippi College, 116 (8-21) W, La. Coll. 88-60, W, Austin 69-51, W, Ozarks 71-54
17. Worcester Poly, 112 (9-15, 3NV) W, Clark 71-69 W, Babson 72-68
18. Randolph-Macon, 98 (13-23) W, Lynchburg 59-34 L, E&H 101-89 W, Guilford 60-55
19. Virginia Wesleyan, 63 (10-24, 1NV) W, Guilford 81-72 W, E&H 107-65
20. UW-Stout, 55 (14-24, 3NV) W, EauClaire 59-47 W, Whitewater 80-71
t21. Transylvania, 36 (19-22, 4NV) W, Franklin 75-69 W, Anderson 85-68
t21. UW-La Crosse, 36 (16-25, 2NV) L, Whitewater 70-83 W, Superior 86-67
t21. UW-Oshkosh, 36 (18-25, 5NV) W, Stevens Pt. 74-62 L, River Falls 58-56
t24. Carroll, 32 (14-23, 7NV) W, Ripon 87-62 W, Grinnell 150-138 W, Ill Coll. 79-60
t24. St. John Fisher, 32 (17-22, 5NV) W Alfred 77-69 W, Elmira 76-47 W, Ithaca 68-55

t26. NYU, 28 (19-23, 5NV) W, Emory 97-64 W, CWRU 78-49
t26. Widener, 28 (10-25, 7NV) L, Elizabethtown 80-82, L, Susquehanna 67-78
28. Lincoln, 27 (3 voters, high 13th) Did not play this week.
29. Elmhurst, 11 (4 voters, high 21st) W, N. Central 94-91, L, Augustana 60-63
30. Calvin, 10 (2 voters, high 17th) W, Kalamazoo 80-58, W, Tri-State 76-63
31. Trinity (TX), 6 (2 voters, both 23rd) W, Rose-Hulman 77-55, W, DePauw 64-70
t32. Bates, 5  W,Maine-Farmington 82-64 W, W.Conn. 70-58, W,Wesleyan 68-47
t32. Trinity (CT), 5 (1 voter, 21st) W,Colby 68-48, W, Bowdoin 80-65
t32. UW-Whitewater, 5 W,LaCrosse 70-83, W, Marian 83-63, L,Stout 71-80
t35. Hamilton, 2  L, Williams 65-68, W, Clarkson 70-57 W, St.Lawrence 87-76
t35. SUNY-Cortland, 2  W, Ithaca 62-49, W, Geneseo St 69-57 W, Buffalo St. 75-73
t37. Loras, 1 W, Cornell 64-58, L, Coe 71-78, W, Central 82-75
t37. Ohio Northern, 1 W, Otterbein 87-64, W, Heidelberg 92-77
t37. UW-Stevens Point, 1 L, Oshkosh 62-74, L, Edgewood 66-67
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 30, 2006, 12:36:58 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 30, 2006, 02:30:25 AM
But that was never me!  Get on witt4ever's case - if he does it one week, he is morally obligated to do it forever!

I know it wasn't you that posted it before.  witt4ever and point special, I believe, posted it before.  I was just giving you a little crap since you just misunderstood what I meant!  ;D

witt4ever,

It makes my job so much easier! lol.  Thanks a lot! ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Knightstalker on January 30, 2006, 02:23:23 PM
Got my poll in, I think there will be a little surprise with one team that will be getting a vote this week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 30, 2006, 02:55:00 PM
Quote from: knightstalker on January 30, 2006, 02:23:23 PM
Got my poll in, I think there will be a little surprise with one team that will be getting a vote this week.

I dare say that will be their only vote!  But they do have a pretty gaudy record; real hard to evaluate with a schedule like that!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Knightstalker on January 30, 2006, 03:02:55 PM
They have beaten almost every team including WPU.  I think they are a team that will slip under everyones radar if they make the tournament and could cause problems for some teams.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 30, 2006, 04:03:20 PM

I'm not sure if your speaking of Baruch or not, but I did consider them for a while.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Knightstalker on January 30, 2006, 04:11:41 PM
I could be Rabbit, I could be.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: David Collinge on January 30, 2006, 05:06:59 PM
Baruch picked up 2 points in the "real" poll, which is either a vote for 24th or two votes for 25th.  It's the first time Baruch has received points since week 8 of 2002-03.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Knightstalker on January 30, 2006, 05:09:02 PM
That answered that question.  I quess Baruch has made a poll appearance before.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: David Collinge on January 30, 2006, 05:12:27 PM
Quote from: knightstalker on January 30, 2006, 05:09:02 PM
That answered that question.  I quess Baruch has made a poll appearance before.

If by "poll appearance" you mean "received votes," then yes, they received votes in weeks 6-8 of 2002-03.  This week's poll is the 4th time they've received votes.  Their high-water mark was 13 votes in the week 8 poll of that season.  But I'd take "poll appearance" to mean "ranked," and no, they've never cracked the top 25.  No CUNYAC team has ever been ranked.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 30, 2006, 05:25:20 PM
Only 7 ballots received so far.  I'll accept them until 8 (ET).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 30, 2006, 07:16:52 PM
Only 45 minutes to go - come on guys, we're still at only 7 ballots!

I have higher standards than the coaches' poll - I'd be embarassed to release a poll with seven voters! ;) ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 30, 2006, 07:57:09 PM
Thanks to formerbant10, we are now up to 8 voters, but where are you, GS, PS, titanfan (and you, too, witt4ever - you're still welcome)?

In hopes of a higher turnout, I'm exercising my perogotive as poll compiler to extend the polls one extra hour. ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 30, 2006, 08:03:35 PM
Hadn't checked my email recently enough - we're at nine (thanks titanfan).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 30, 2006, 10:11:54 PM
And Point Special comes through with #10 - fewer than I'd wish, but here it is:

1. Witt, 245 [6] (1-3)
2. Woo, 236 [1] (1-4)
3. Larry, 227 [1] (1-5)
4. Augie, 223 [1] (1-6)
5. Hope, 212 [1] (1-7)
6. Albion, 203 (5-7)
7. B-W, 186 (5-9)
8. IWU, 170 (5-12)
9. Amherst, 147 (7-19)
10. Wartburg, 144 (8-14)
11. York, 137 (7-17)
12. Oxy, 134 (7-17)
13. UPS, 122 (8-17, 1NV)
14. Miss C, 113 (8-18, 1NV)
15. C-M, 93 (14-20)
      WPI, 93 (10-22, 2NV)
17. NCC, 89 (8-22)
18. UW-Stout, 82 (11-23)
      Va. Wes., 82 (10-23)
20. Transy, 49 (17-24, 1NV)
21. SJF, 45 (16-22, 3NV)
22. Carroll, 44 (12-25, 3NV)
23. RMC, 36 (17-25, 3NV)
24. NYU, 29 (17-25, 4NV)
25. Lincoln, 23 (12-25, 5NV)

26. Bates, 18 (4 voters, high 21)
27. Elmhurst, 14 (4 voters, high 19)
28. Calvin, 11 (1 voter, 15)
      UW-Oshkosh, 11 (3 voters, high 20)
30. Trinity (CT), 8 (1 voter, 18)
31. UW-LAX, 6, (3 voters, high 23)
32. UW-WW, 5 (1 voter, 21)
33. Cortland, 4 (1 voter, 22)
      Willamette, 4 (1 voter, 22)
35. Hamilton, 2 (i voter, 24)
      ONU, 2 (1 voter, 24)
37. Baruch, 1
      Widener, 1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 30, 2006, 10:25:22 PM
This week's statistical anomaly: 

Last week I noted that Wartburg was #9 despite NO ONE voting them higher than 10th (it was their consistency of ALL votes between 10 and 16).  This week they had an equally consistent voting record, with the range raised at both ends by 2 (ALL votes between 8 and 14), yet they fell from 9 to 10!

Lesson #2: poll rankings are only PARTLY due to what you do; it also matters what those around you do!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 30, 2006, 11:47:07 PM
I think we've got a good representation of teams and just a couple of anomalys. Ah, well.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 31, 2006, 12:41:46 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 30, 2006, 07:57:09 PM
Thanks to formerbant10, we are now up to 8 voters, but where are you, GS, PS, titanfan (and you, too, witt4ever - you're still welcome)?

In hopes of a higher turnout, I'm exercising my perogotive as poll compiler to extend the polls one extra hour. ;D

Greg, I'm disappointed!

I deliberately misspelled prerogative figuring that would would get you on just about as fast as pre-season vs. nonconference season!  Alas, 'twas not not be! ;D

Oh, well - your ballot would have broken a couple of ties, but otherwise would probably not have changed anything.

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 31, 2006, 09:34:53 AM

I don't know what to make of things when I am responsible for three of the 1 voter also rans.  Whatever, I'm pretty confident about my ballot, but its fun to see how everyone else is thinking.

I'm as big a Lincoln supporter as anyone, but #12? Wow, somebody from NJ loves them!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Knightstalker on January 31, 2006, 09:50:12 AM
Unless there is another NJ voter, I had them at 23rd.  They actually moved up a spot on my ballot because teams ahead of them dropped.  I am trying not to drop a team because they are idle and if they keep winning.  If you lose you are given careful scrutiny.  If you lost to a team that I have ranked higher or feel is equal or is a conference rival that weighs in my decision.  A team that loses usually won't move up, unless teams above do worse, but they may stay the same.

I will stand by my Baruch choice at 25, what influenced me the most was the win over WPU.  I have seen that WPU defense two times a year for what seems forever and to break their press and beat them like they did.  I was impressed by Baruch, they are the best team in the Atlantic and if they make it to the tournament they could surprise a team or two.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 31, 2006, 09:55:28 AM

Yeah, that win was what drew me to consider them, but I just couldn't, in good conscience, consider them for a vote when I was only giving one WIAC team credence.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 31, 2006, 09:55:55 AM
Nope. That was me. Their power ratings are pretty solid (11th in Wolfe) and they have a good SOS. Yes, they've lost four games but they're almost done with their schedule.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 31, 2006, 10:00:27 AM

I totally agree, they have been solid all year.  Their R-MC win is looking worse the longer Wansley is out; I guess I forgot about how well they played early on.

Maybe this is the case for keeping the numerical ranking system.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 31, 2006, 10:16:37 PM
I don't have my ballot in front of me but I think I have all 25 teams on my ballot.  Thats darn good.

Major shakeup in the top 6 coming next poll

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 01, 2006, 09:54:27 AM

What if all of your higher ranked teams win by close margins.  Would you still shake up your top 6?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 01, 2006, 10:10:37 AM
Well, since many of my ranked teams play each other, then a shakeup would be in order.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 01, 2006, 10:38:45 AM

I was just commenting for example, I had Augie over IWU on the last ranking, so when IWU lost, I didn't feel the need to change that ranking at all.  I've got Witt over Wooster, so if Witt were to win, there may be no need to shake it up.  I guess I was asking your opinion on that.  Does a team deserve to drop even if they lost to a team you expected them to lose to?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Knightstalker on February 01, 2006, 10:47:14 AM
I think that depends on what the teams behind them do also.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 01, 2006, 10:52:22 AM

True enough.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 01, 2006, 11:23:21 AM
Quote from: sac on January 31, 2006, 10:16:37 PM
I don't have my ballot in front of me but I think I have all 25 teams on my ballot.  Thats darn good.

Major shakeup in the top 6 coming next poll

At the risk of "groupthink", my Top 24 were in the Poll.  I went with  UW-du jour at #25.  :-\
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 01, 2006, 11:26:41 AM

I only had 21 of the 25.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Coach C on February 01, 2006, 11:39:08 AM
Baruch???? - please give me your thinking on how they are better wan UW - Whoever or the like.

C
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 01, 2006, 11:43:49 AM

I didn't put Baruch on my list, but I thought seriously about it.  The reason I didn't was because I thought there were quite a few teams in the Midwest and WIAC that had worse records with a better team.  However, Baruch has earned the record they have and with the way the tournament gets set up, they have as good a chance to get to the final four as anyone out there.

I think it was smed who put them in because of the computer correlations he uses.  I wonder more if Knightstalker has seen them play or could give us an idea of their ability from first-hand knowledge.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 01, 2006, 11:47:04 AM
No, I didn't have Baruch on there. Last week I had Loras, but they lost. The last time I did my power ratings Baruch was #86 (I'll revise them tomorrow).  Except for my Lincoln love, I was pretty standard and had to UW schools in there and left out Carroll (which shall return next week as someone will no doubt lose.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Knightstalker on February 01, 2006, 11:51:56 AM
I put Baruch in, I already had two WIAC teams in my top 25.  I knew they would not get much consideration but they are from the region I am in and after their win over WPU I thought they deserved a vote.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 01, 2006, 11:52:35 AM

Right, I misread your post; you were talking about lincoln.  It must have been knightstalker then.  i'm sure he's got a good reason.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 01, 2006, 11:53:01 AM

I'll buy that, even though I didn't agree.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 01, 2006, 12:34:19 PM
For the record, Lincoln wasn't cool enough to be in my poll.  I had Elmhurst.

Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 01, 2006, 10:38:45 AM
Does a team deserve to drop even if they lost to a team you expected them to lose to?

In my opinion, it depends on how bad they lose and also what teams around them do.  If teams around them all win, they'd drop a little. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 01, 2006, 02:41:00 PM
hoopsfan--by shakeup I don't mean a complete top to bottom shakeup of my top 10.  But I see no scenario's that are going to keep my top 6 in the same order.  Someone's going to drop, someone might move up on their own.

I might end up with the same exact top 6 but in a different order...........and with only 10 voters, thats a significant shakeup.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 01, 2006, 02:47:23 PM

Cool.  I'm just interested in other people's thought processes in voting and polls and such.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 01, 2006, 04:47:02 PM
My top 27 matched the PP top 27 - I had #26 Bates at 21, and #27 Elmhurst at 19.  I really WANTED to include both Carroll and Lincoln (and Calvin and another WIAC, though not sure which one), but couldn't find room.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 01, 2006, 11:24:58 PM
Quote from: sac on January 31, 2006, 10:16:37 PM

Major shakeup in the top 6 coming next poll



Tri-State 77 Albion 72

See, Hoops Fan, just what I said major shakeup coming in the next poll  ;D

Sure didn't see that coming
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 01, 2006, 11:32:02 PM
Quote from: sac on February 01, 2006, 11:24:58 PM
Quote from: sac on January 31, 2006, 10:16:37 PM

Major shakeup in the top 6 coming next poll



Tri-State 77 Albion 72

See, Hoops Fan, just what I said major shakeup coming in the next poll  ;D

Sure didn't see that coming

As I posted just seconds ago on the top 25 board, with apologies to Oldsmobile, "this is not your father's Tri-State".  No one will mistake them for a top 25 team, but they've gone and become a downright respectable team!  Nevertheless, that will hurt Albion, and if they lose again on Saturday it will probably cost them a top ten spot (I don't think JUST a loss to Hope would have done that).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 01, 2006, 11:33:47 PM
A top 10 spot, maybe, but nothing in terms of tourney status.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 01, 2006, 11:48:31 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 01, 2006, 11:33:47 PM
A top 10 spot, maybe, but nothing in terms of tourney status.

Right.  I didn't specifically check, but I would certainly assume they are safe as a C if they don't take the A.  But I would assume they are pretty gung-ho on the CONFERENCE title before they worry about Salem.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: diehardfan on February 02, 2006, 01:35:42 AM
Quote from: sac on February 01, 2006, 11:24:58 PM
Quote from: sac on January 31, 2006, 10:16:37 PM
Major shakeup in the top 6 coming next poll

Tri-State 77 Albion 72
See, Hoops Fan, just what I said major shakeup coming in the next poll  ;D
Sure didn't see that coming

Yes you did, not underestimate you magic HOFer powers! :D ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 02, 2006, 01:37:12 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 01, 2006, 04:47:02 PM
My top 27 matched the PP top 27 - I had #26 Bates at 21, and #27 Elmhurst at 19.  I really WANTED to include both Carroll and Lincoln (and Calvin and another WIAC, though not sure which one), but couldn't find room.

I TOLD YOU to do a Top 30!  Oh, wait a minute, no I didn't.  ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 02, 2006, 01:42:35 AM
Quote from: Old School on February 02, 2006, 01:37:12 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 01, 2006, 04:47:02 PM
My top 27 matched the PP top 27 - I had #26 Bates at 21, and #27 Elmhurst at 19.  I really WANTED to include both Carroll and Lincoln (and Calvin and another WIAC, though not sure which one), but couldn't find room.

I TOLD YOU to do a Top 30!  Oh, wait a minute, no I didn't.  ;)

Hey, I think we should do a PP top 50 - I'm just afraid I'd be tallying 2 ballots each week! ;D

And some weeks neither of them wold be mine. ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on February 02, 2006, 02:05:54 AM
Hey, 50 teams!  That'd be great.

... it's just merely coincidence that after the top 8 all the teams are alphabetical...  ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 02, 2006, 09:17:47 AM

Gosh, what happens to albion if they beat Hope?  That would really screw some sutff up.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2006, 06:02:11 PM
HF,

Well, no need to worry about that!  Now the question is how far does Albion fall?  Losing to Hope (even big) is no big deal since they BEAT them big earlier.  But losing to Tri-State....
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2006, 11:21:04 PM
I'm going to do something I haven't previously done for fear of biasing the poll - the only ballot I have in so far is Ralph's, and he has one intriguing choice: Howard Payne.  Maybe others had dug deeper than me, but I confess they were not even on my radar.  They started 3-3, but are 13-0 since then.

While I have not yet formulated my ballot, I doubt they will be on it yet, but a definite addition to my personal 'ORVs'.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 06, 2006, 12:38:16 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 01, 2006, 11:23:21 AM
Quote from: sac on January 31, 2006, 10:16:37 PM
I don't have my ballot in front of me but I think I have all 25 teams on my ballot.  Thats darn good.

Major shakeup in the top 6 coming next poll

At the risk of "groupthink", my Top 24 were in the Poll.  I went with  UW-du jour at #25.  :-\

And I did not list NYU last week!  More luck than prescience! ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 06, 2006, 02:19:28 AM
I don't see anything that resembles a nice list of the Poster's Top 25 Poll and how each team did this past week.  >:(

I guess I'm on my own!  :'(

My poll will be in on Monday, Ypsi.  ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 06, 2006, 06:52:14 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2006, 11:21:04 PM
I'm going to do something I haven't previously done for fear of biasing the poll - the only ballot I have in so far is Ralph's, and he has one intriguing choice: Howard Payne.  Maybe others had dug deeper than me, but I confess they were not even on my radar.  They started 3-3, but are 13-0 since then.

While I have not yet formulated my ballot, I doubt they will be on it yet, but a definite addition to my personal 'ORVs'.

They definitely weren't on my radar, and of course I read this after sending you my picks.  Will have to keep an eye on them  :o
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 06, 2006, 10:09:11 AM

I'm delving into the ballot now, so it will be on its way soon; once I can make sense of all these losses.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 06, 2006, 05:24:26 PM
Less than 3 hours to go (unless the real poll is delayed) and only 8 ballots in so far.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 06, 2006, 07:32:29 PM
We're uyp to 9 voters; polls close in less than 30 minutes.

GS, PS, and 'stalker, where are you??
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on February 06, 2006, 07:39:06 PM
Tough one this week, I'm working on it right now
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 06, 2006, 09:04:02 PM
Posters' Poll, through games of 2-5-06 [range of votes]:

1. Wooster, 248 (9) [1-3]
2. Lawrence, 235 (1) [1-5]
3. Augustana, 232 [2-5]
4. Hope, 223 [3-4]
5. Wittenberg, 206 [4-7]
6. Baldwin-Wallace, 200 [5-8]
7. Illinois Wesleyan, 188 [5-9]
8. York, 161 [8-13]
9. Amherst, 160 [7-17]
10. Mississippi C, 145 [6-18]
11. Albion, 141 [9-20]
12. Puget Sound, 121 [8-18, 1NV]
13. Carnegie-Mellon, 119 [11-17]
14. UW-Stout, 112 [9-21]
15. Virginia Wesleyan, 104 [8-24]
16. Worcester Poly, 94 [11-25, 1NV]
17. Occidental, 85 [13-22]
18. Transylvania, 83 [16-20]
19. Carroll, 78 [10-22]
20. North Central, 70 [10-25, 2NV]
21. St. John Fisher, 53 [14-25, 2NV]
22. Wartburg, 47 [16-25, 3NV]
23. Lincoln, 43 [11-24, 2NV]
24. Calvin, 19 [4 voters, high 14th]
25. NYU, 12 [4 voters, high 21st]
25. UW-Whitewater, 12 [3 voters, high 20th]

27. Ohio Northern, 11 [3 voters, high 21st]
28. Widener, 9 [2 voters, high 19th]
29. Elmhurst, 8 [3 voters, high 23rd]
29. Cortland, 8 [1 voter]
31. Tufts, 7 [2 voters, high 21st]
32. Bates, 4 [2 voters, both 24th]
32. Hamilton, 4 [1 voter]
34. Coe, 2 [1 voter]
34. Howard Payne, 2 [1 voter]
36. Fisk, 1
36. Randolph-Macon, 1
36. Trinity (CT), 1
36. UW-SP, 1

We had pretty solid agreement on the top teams - of the top 19, only two were left off any voter's ballot (though some of the ranges were pretty wide), and the next four were named on most ballots.  But after that it got pretty dicey - 8 teams were named on only one ballot each, and 3 more were named on only two!

My personal ballot had 23 of the top 24 (with neither of the teams tying for 25th) - I omitted Wartburg, but had Elmhurst 23rd and Bates 24th.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 06, 2006, 10:09:36 PM
I also had 23 of the Top 24.  I voted for ONU and HPU.

Howard Payne's 13-game winning streak is the longest in the ASC-West, since the 2001 McMurry team, which won 23 straight.   (That McM team was eliminated by Horace Jenkins' National Finalist Wm Paterson team in the Sweet 16.)

I will have a better handle on this HPU team after this week's games.

The drive from Brownwood to Abilene is about 80 miles, an easy 90 minute drive, campus to campus.  Howard Payne has not defeated McMurry in Abilene in about a decade.  We may see the streak end on Thursday night.

Hardin-Simmons is the next game on Saturday.    The HSU gym should be full and enthused, because the Cowgirls and the Lady Jackets are the "opening act". 

(To comprehend the attention that Women's basketball gets in West Texas, Texas Tech's women average about 12,000 per game.  Bobby Knight's men, only about 6500.)

HPU will go back home after the McM and the HSU games.

The last game in this road trip is at Sul Ross State on Monday night.  McM, HSU and SRSU were 2005 Tri-champs in the ASC-West.  Sul Ross State is HPU's travel partner and a 5-hr bus trip from Brownwoood to Alpine.  SRSU has a very boisterous crowd, which supports the Lobos enthusiastically.

If HPU wins all 3, they are likely to extend the streak to 18 before the 8-team ASC tourney, which HPU will host.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 06, 2006, 11:40:36 PM
Amazing similarity between our poll amd the real d3 poll: 24 of the d3hoops top 25 were also in our top 25!  (The only exception was #24 ONU which finished 27th on the PP.)

The similarity was especially striking at the top: #1-4 were identical, #5 and 6 were flip-flopped, then #7-9 were again identical!  We liked Mississippi College (#10 vs #14) and Virginia Wesleyan (#15 vs. #19) somewhat more, but (for those who may have feared a CCIW bias with a known 'Green Weenie' counting the ballots!) gave much less love to NCC (#20 rather than #15 - and to Elmhurst, t29 rather than 26).

For those wanting to keep a 'watch-list', we had 5 who received no votes on d3hoops: UWSP, Tufts, Fisk, Widener, and Hamilton.  They had 4 receiving votes who received none on PP: UW-Oshkosh, Baruch (where were you 'stalker?!), Carleton, and UW-La Crosse.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 06, 2006, 11:51:55 PM
23 of 25 for myself, I had no Lincoln or Calvin (mwahahaha)  ;D


Howard Payne moved up my ones to watch list for sure, along with Baruch (suspect sched imo), Just couldn't find enough space for Ohio Northern who's my #26.  It was also really tough to keep another UW school off my list but all my candidates lost........again.

I'm  struck by the wide range in voting for Albion and North Central and Amherst. 


We need more voters.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: David Collinge on February 07, 2006, 12:01:06 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 06, 2006, 11:40:36 PM
For those wanting to keep a 'watch-list', we had 5 who received no votes on d3hoops: UWSP, Tufts, Coe, Cortland, and Hamilton. 

Coe (for the first time in poll history) and Cortland St. both received votes in the D3hoops.com top 25 poll.  In fact, Coe received 26 votes, good enough for would-be 28th place.  Cortland got 5 votes.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 07, 2006, 12:04:14 AM
Totally agree on the 'more voters' - don't know what happened to Greg or knightstalker (and, for services rendered - though you pooped out this week! - witt4ever is still invited to join).

Well, we got a third MIAA team in DESPITE the MIAA voter!  I realize it goes against the grain to vote for Calvin, but, hey, I celebrated Millikin's national title for the women last year!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 07, 2006, 12:09:32 AM
David,

Thanks for the catch!  (Damned slanted writing!)  It was Fisk and Widener (not Coe and Cortland) who were on the PP ORV but got no votes on d3hoops.

The original post (#299) has been corrected.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 07, 2006, 12:12:29 AM
Just didn't see a way to squeeze them in Mr Y.  They're on my radar.  Hopefully a loss this week won't mean I  have any tough decisions to make.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: titanfan on February 07, 2006, 12:52:42 AM
Ralph,

I actually put Howard Payne on my watch list last week.  I am impressed by their long win streak.  The one thing that kept me from voting for them was the lack of what I would consider a "signature win".  Because of that, I put WPI at 25. Even though their schedule doesn't impress me at all, at 19 and 1 I feel they deserve some respect. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 07, 2006, 01:16:18 AM
I had 23 of the 26 with Elmhurst (24th) and NYU (25th)dropping out of my poll from last week.  I didn't vote for Lincoln either.  I didn't have Whitewater in my poll or in last week's poll.  I had Ohio Northern 24th and Calvin 25th this week. 

I'm the guilty one that voted for Randolph-Macon.  They were 17th in my poll last week and they lost to Virginia Wes., who were ranked, so I couldn't drop them all the way out of my poll.  Sorry guys! 

Even as a Point fan, I'm surprised someone voted them in with SEVEN losses! 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 07, 2006, 01:29:58 AM
No need to apologize - how are we to replace those who drop out if posters don't remind us who ought to be on the watch-list!

I never rat out voters - if you want to know who voted for UWSP, you'll have to hear it from your fellow WIAC voter.

OOPS!! ;) ;D  (Actually, I had them in my top 30, just not QUITE top 25.  Seven losses in the WIAC is NOT like 7 losses most places!)

And, afterall, Elmhurst now has seven losses, but there were THREE of us who put them on the ballot (and they finished 26th on the d3hoops poll).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 07, 2006, 01:40:31 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 07, 2006, 01:29:58 AM
OOPS!! ;) ;D  (Actually, I had them in my top 30, just not QUITE top 25.  Seven losses in the WIAC is NOT like 7 losses most places!)

I know I don't need to apologize!  Those three conference losses at Whitewater, at Oshkosh and at home to Platteville don't bother me (well, maybe the latter one a little bit).  It's those THREE nonconference losses to Edgewood, Clarke and maybe Mid-America Nazerene that really eat under my skin!  >:(  The Lakeland loss doesn't bother me at all.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on February 07, 2006, 02:42:23 AM
My reasoning for voting for them is based partially on how they played on Saturday... and because they're only a half game out of the conference title.  Even in a down year, I think the top WIAC teams are in the 20-30 range, minimum, and Point is only a 1/2 game out right now.  Like I said on the WIAC page, Point holds their destiny in their own hands, as they play Whitewater Wednesday, and Stout on Saturday.  It doesn't get much easier, as they have to go to Platteville next Wednesday, but if they can force their conference foes to play catch-up, then they will have an advantage, and some room for error.

I'm also basing this off the fact that the young guys are not nearly as unexperienced as they were... The Point team we're seeing now is better than the one that lost to Whitewater, Clarke, Nazerene, etc.  Is this a National Championship team?  I seriously doubt it... but this team does have the potential to get hot (or stay hot?) and make a run at the NCAA's for a fourth straight year.

Perhaps I've viewing the world through purple glasses... but this team does a lot of things the right way, and they have a shot to make a good season a little better.  And I think they've shown their potential for playing well in big games, as pretty much all the WIAC games are big ones.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 07, 2006, 06:51:19 AM
Well I went 25-25 this week, after suffering through the difficult job of voting for Calvin  :)

I do think the Knights have proven themselves to be an up and coming team with a pretty impressive group of freshman.   A loss to Hope this week won't necessarily knock them out either.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 07, 2006, 07:40:10 AM
Quote from: titanfan on February 07, 2006, 12:52:42 AM
Ralph,

I actually put Howard Payne on my watch list last week.  I am impressed by their long win streak.  The one thing that kept me from voting for them was the lack of what I would consider a "signature win".  Because of that, I put WPI at 25. Even though their schedule doesn't impress me at all, at 19 and 1 I feel they deserve some respect. 


Titanfan, I think that you were prudent to leave them off this week.  As for a body of voters, I don't think that they deserve to be a consensus Top 25 pick, this week.

If they don't sweep the week, then they fall back on my ballot, until we can see some more progress, namely winning the ASC-Tourney.

I only put them in at #24, because I am very suspect of Wartburg, my #25.

From my perspective, the streak is the "signature" win.  HPU defeated a good D2 Texas A&M-Commerce (12-9) in the opening game.  Their 3 losses are understandable, at Trinity in game #2 after reportedly being stuck in traffic an extra hour getting to the Trinity gym, and at Miss College and LaCollege on that 1200-mile tough eastern road trip.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 07, 2006, 09:13:42 AM

Do we know what happened to Wartburg?  They were unquestionably playing much, much better a few weeks ago than they are now?  Anyone in or near Iowa hear anything?

Although, I am now realizing that a lot of the variance in our poll is due to my voting patterns (I'm responsible for 9 teams' "highest votes" and 9 of the top 25's "lowest votes").

I think you all know my #1 team, but in an effort to keep some sort of voting privacy, I'll let you know my 26-30, to contribute to the "watch list."

26. Howard Payne
27. Trinity (TX)
28. Willamette
29. Puget Sound
30. Baruch
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Knightstalker on February 07, 2006, 10:24:43 AM
From the time I left work friday until sometime yesterday morning I was unable to even get near a computer.  The only down time I had all weekend was watching the Super Bowl at a friends house.  By the time I was able to start figuring out my poll it was too late to submit.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: TeeDub on February 07, 2006, 11:19:48 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 06, 2006, 11:40:36 PM
For those wanting to keep a 'watch-list', we had 5 who received no votes on d3hoops: UWSP, Tufts, Fisk, Widener, and Hamilton.  They had 4 receiving votes who received none on PP: UW-Oshkosh, Baruch (where were you 'stalker?!), Carleton, and UW-La Crosse.

Speaking of teams to watch:  I would keep an eye on Claremont College from the SCIAC.  They are quickly becoming the best team in the conference that includes the PP #17 Occidental.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 07, 2006, 01:01:14 PM
I wanted to let everyone see where my power rating amalgamation matched up with the poster's poll. My power rating than in parens.


1. Wooster  (3)
2. Lawrence (1)
3. Augustana (2)
4. Hope (6)
5. Wittenberg (4)
6. Baldwin-Wallace (5)
7. Illinois Wesleyan (7)
8. York (20)
9. Amherst (9)
10. Mississippi C (21)
11. Albion (27)
12. Puget Sound (16)
13. Carnegie-Mellon (10)
14. UW-Stout (11)
15. Virginia Wesleyan (26)
16. Worcester Poly ( 8 )
17. Occidental (33)
18. Transylvania (12)
19. Carroll (15)
20. North Central (19)
21. St. John Fisher (17)
22. Wartburg (29)
23. Lincoln (13)
24. Calvin (28)
25. NYU (23)
25. UW-Whitewater (34)

27. Ohio Northern (24)
28. Widener (37)
29. Elmhurst (46)
29. Cortland (18)
31. Tufts (14)
32. Bates (22)
32. Hamilton (38)
34. Coe (30)
34. Howard Payne (35)
36. Fisk (63)
36. Randolph-Macon (40)
36. Trinity (CT) (31)
36. UW-SP (55)

Top 10 teams not listed:

Wisc - LaCrosse (25)
Williams (32)
Wisc - Oshkosh (39)
Rochester (41)
Maryville (42)
Gordon (43)
Carleton (44)
Wilmington (45)
Coll. of New Jersey (47)
St. Thomas (MN) (48)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 07, 2006, 02:11:29 PM

The smiley means 8 for anyone not privvy to an earlier discussion of the matter.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 07, 2006, 02:49:46 PM
I changed it...
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 07, 2006, 03:06:33 PM

Well thanks a lot, now my post looks cryptic and worthless...







... and how is that different than any other post of mine you ask?   Touche.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 07, 2006, 04:48:13 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 07, 2006, 03:06:33 PM

Well thanks a lot, now my post looks cryptic and worthless...







... and how is that different than any other post of mine you ask?   Touche.

Aw - no fair setting yourself up like that.  You know you can't give yourself an assist   ::)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 08, 2006, 02:53:01 AM
Now I've never understood that rule.

If you're so freakin' fast that you can give yourself an alley-oop, why the heck shouldn't you get both the bucket AND the assist?! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 08, 2006, 09:36:21 AM

I was more stealing your chances to burn me than I was setting myself up.  I was posting the first line regardless; I just wanted to let you all know that I knew what I was doing.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 09, 2006, 10:35:31 PM
Howard Payne runs into history.  HPU has not defeated McMurry in Abilene in about a decade, and tonight was no different.

HPU is only about 5 deep (only 10 pts from the bench vs 51 for McMurry).  So one can out-score HPU in an uptempo game.  The Yellow Jackets do best with the half-court game.

McM 116 HPU 97.  This snaps the 13-game winning streak. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 10, 2006, 01:24:27 AM
Oopsy!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 11, 2006, 11:49:06 PM
I am about ready to throw my hands up!

From my ballot last week, #3, #4, #7, #10, #12, #14, #15, #16, #17, #23 and #24 have lost and we still have 3 more games to go!

:-\ :-[ :P ??? :o
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 11, 2006, 11:51:35 PM
Expand the horizons! That's why I rate 'em all - I have ample backups!

Or just put all the teams in a hat - and so what if you draw out Elms as #1!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 11, 2006, 11:58:39 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 11, 2006, 11:51:35 PM
Expand the horizons! That's why I rate 'em all - I have ample backups!

Or just put all the teams in a hat - and so what if you draw out Elms as #1!

:D :D :D :D :D

Okay,  Elms,  #1!

I have a statistical probability that I am statistically correct at some "p" value!    :D :D  :D  ;D  8) 

And it is probably greater than my probabliity to guess which CCIW, MIAA and WIAC teams will win next week! :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 11, 2006, 11:59:48 PM
You draw Elms as #1, I disallow your ballot! ;) ;D

But we are going to check into our personal 'watch-lists' this week - even crazier than last week!

I always had respect for Pat's voters, but am gaining even greater respect!  If you take this top 25 stuff seriously, it ain't easy!!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 12, 2006, 12:31:20 AM
But Professor Ypsi, the "p" value of Elms being #1 is .000001. ;D

At least I calculated it correctly! ;) :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 12, 2006, 12:50:27 AM
Ralph, I don't know how you could actually calculate the 'p' value, but I'll take your word for it.  ;)

But I do know the 'a' value (as in 'accept' the ballot) of a first place vote for Daniel Webster, Cal Tech, or UMPI is zero! ;D

Going to be an interesting week: WPI losing twice - probably gone.  Augustana losing twice, probably still in the top ten.  It's all in the context!  Tons of upsets; I'll be starting from scratch again!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 12, 2006, 01:43:40 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 11, 2006, 11:49:06 PM
...From my ballot last week, #3, #4, #7, #10, #12, #14, #15, #16, #17, #23 and #24 have lost and we still have 3 more games to go!

:-\ :-[ :P ??? :o

Okay, one more game left on Sunday, CMU!

Oxy edged the Poets 65-61 and UPS beat Whitman...the Missionaries that is, and not to be confused with the Poet! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 12, 2006, 01:48:10 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 11, 2006, 11:49:06 PM
From my ballot last week, #3, #4, #7, #10, #12, #14, #15, #16, #17, #23 and #24 have lost...

Pat's crew of pollsters had #3, #4, #7, #11, #12, #13, #15, #16, #17 and #24 to lose.

Misery loves company! :( :-\
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 13, 2006, 09:42:27 AM

It should be fun to see what happens, although I only had three teams in my top ten lose this week, so I'm looking ok.  I expected Hope to go down and you had to assume IWU and Augie were going to lose at least once more.

Off to work on the ballot, see you in a few hours, once I figure all this out.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 13, 2006, 10:44:47 AM

My poll is away.  Suprisingly the top 25 was pretty easy to pick.  I had one or two teams at the end fighting for spots, but I had a good sense of who I wanted up there.

My ORV, if you will:

26. Stevens Point
27. North Central
28. Rochester
29. Trinity (TX)
30. Carleton
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 13, 2006, 02:48:28 PM

Where the heck is everybody?  You can't tell me you're all vegged out in front of olympic coverage?  They have to have power restored on the East Coast don't they?  I haven't seen this place this dead since August.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 13, 2006, 02:57:05 PM
A Posters' Poll variant of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder...

We are trying to figure out what happened to our ballots after sustaining all of those losses.  Apparently your ballot was not as devastated. :o :)

Mine went in yesterday.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 13, 2006, 02:58:28 PM
Glad to see you're still alive, Ralph.  I'm sure you've apologized to Howard Payne for ruining their chances of an at-large bid with your mentioning of them on the national boards.  It's a shame to have such a strong jinx associated with you.  I'd be afraid to leave the house.

Have you gotten calls from NYU and Willamette asking you to not vote for them this week?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on February 13, 2006, 03:11:14 PM
I've been in Colorado all weekend... Couldn't you guys keep things sane while I was gone?!  I'm actually REALLY going to have to think about this top 25, instead of bumping teams around a little here, a little there...
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 13, 2006, 03:40:10 PM
Hoops Fan:

Where did you have Lincoln in the current poll?  Additionally, do you see a correction in the regional poll regarding Lincoln's position as it relates to NCAA selections and positions?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 13, 2006, 04:25:33 PM

I finally finished with Lincoln at 13, although my 13-16 were pretty even.  I call it a crapshoot.

Lincoln is up to #18 in the real poll (just posted).  I think they are getting some good respect.  The only problem is without any wins in the near future, I don't see the voters allowing them to get higher than 15 at most.

They are the only pool B team even getting votes this week, so they have a high standing amongst voters.  It's nice to have that rep, because as we all know, rep goes a long way in keeping you ranked (Trinity, CT got six votes this week and Tufts got no love even though they beat Trinity in CT over the weekend).

In terms of regional ranking, it will be hard for them to move up without a loss.  The Stockton win was nice, but Ursinius killed Hopkins.  Widener has Messiah left on the schedule.  Anything can happen.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 13, 2006, 04:44:30 PM
Keep those ballots coming - only 5 so far with juyst three hours left!

Most people DO seem to be having some trouble after all the losses - already 36 different teams have been mentioned, and some of the variation is strikingly higher than in past PPs.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 13, 2006, 04:46:07 PM
Actually, I need Sul Ross State to complete the "Tri-fecta" on HPU in Alpine this evening. That would put HPU back into a tie with McMurry. ;)

Conference play just got hectic.  As to the levels of competition across the country, I hate to play the "comparative scores" game, but IWU only defeated UT-Dallas in the opening weekend by 13.  UT-Dallas lost at Mississippi College by 10 and host the Chocs this Thursday.

UW-Platteville beat UMHB (15-8) by 3 but lost to Concordia-Austin (5-17) by 3.  

I think that we are beginning to see a "D3Hoops.com" effect.  As the fans of D3 become more familiar with the various schools around the country, the quality at the better/larger/more competitive programs become more similar in performance.

A "totally-neutral-floor-tourney" might provide some interesting outcomes! :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 13, 2006, 04:49:31 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 13, 2006, 04:46:07 PM
A "totally-neutral-floor-tourney" might provide some interesting outcomes! :)

You know full well that doesn't exist on any level of competition.  Just ask those #1 seeds who have to fly across the country to play an elite 8 match-up with #2 seed Duke or UNC in North Carolina.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 13, 2006, 05:33:13 PM
Fired my poll off to Cabs through Cyberspace..........assuming the NSA didn't grab it.


Tough week........lots of teams losing softened the blow for a lot of teams.  But I really took a hard look at a lot of teams I have some doubts about.

One of my teams won twice and dropped out  :o, one won 3 times and dropped a spot.  :o........y'all think I'm crazy right.

Nope, I feel like the poll has consolidated itself and I feel pretty good about my top 12 or so.

Biggest mover for me was that other dutch school......they're playing some good ball right now.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 13, 2006, 06:14:15 PM
Quote from: sac on February 13, 2006, 05:33:13 PM
Fired my poll off to Cabs through Cyberspace..........assuming the NSA didn't grab it.


We're safe so far - guess they couldn't crack our code!

Up to seven ballots now, but still 36 teams so things have settled a little.

The top four are remarkably consistent (though not always in the same order) - only one other team got one fourth place vote.  (So those of you who have voted already know the top four - unless, of course, it is YOU who is the outlier!)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 13, 2006, 08:13:21 PM
Only eight ballots in - I'm gonna hold the poll open another hour in hopes that the turn-out improves.  FDF?  formerbant?  Greg?  PS?

Knightstalker, I sent a message concerning your ballot - did you get it?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on February 13, 2006, 08:29:45 PM
Ypsi,

Just sent my poll... would you mind sending it back, so I can have a record of my pics?  I forgot to copy it before I sent it.  Thanks
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Knightstalker on February 13, 2006, 08:37:16 PM
I think it was only an oversight.  I can't check right now everything is saved on my computer at work.  It was really difficult this week because I wasn't able to get one together last week.  I started over from scratch basically.  I remember looking at augie and thinking no, that's a little to high, and later, no that's a little too low and I must have just forgot all about them.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 13, 2006, 08:56:34 PM
Quote from: knightstalker on February 13, 2006, 08:37:16 PM
I think it was only an oversight.  I can't check right now everything is saved on my computer at work.  It was really difficult this week because I wasn't able to get one together last week.  I started over from scratch basically.  I remember looking at augie and thinking no, that's a little to high, and later, no that's a little too low and I must have just forgot all about them.

If you want to give me a position for Augie, I can then just lower everyone below them one spot.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 13, 2006, 09:13:29 PM
Maybe he didn't think Augie was worthy of a Top 25 spot and now you are just pressuring him to add them.  Dictatorship! lol.  ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 13, 2006, 09:15:37 PM
I'm awaiting clarification of the ballots from knightstalker and Point Special, but note they are both off-line - arrrrgh!

I'll wait 'til ten (so if anyone else wants to submit before then...).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 13, 2006, 09:28:21 PM
Quote from: Old School on February 13, 2006, 09:13:29 PM
Maybe he didn't think Augie was worthy of a Top 25 spot and now you are just pressuring him to add them.  Dictatorship! lol.  ;D

I certainly don't make a habit of questioning most omissions, but since EVERYONE else had them at least 11th, I figured it was PROBABLY an oversight. ;D

Likewise, with Point Special, he had Amherst at both 8th AND 10th - they had one heckuvan impressive weekend (SOUNDLY beating both Tufts and Bates), but I wasn't sure they deserved TWO spots in the top ten!

And a third poster, who shall go unnamed, also had an omission that I wondered about - he has corrected it (it WAS an oversight).

Even if we are mainly just for fun, I want the poll to accurately reflect posters' intentions, not our accidental screw-ups!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Knightstalker on February 13, 2006, 10:03:17 PM
Put Augie where the poll would place them and move everyone else down a slot.  I was agonizing over number 25 and reluctently gave it to widener.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on February 13, 2006, 10:34:05 PM
Drop #8 and add Transylvania at #25 (pushing everyone else up)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 13, 2006, 10:54:53 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 13, 2006, 04:46:07 PM
Actually, I need Sul Ross State to complete the "Tri-fecta" on HPU in Alpine this evening. That would put HPU back into a tie with McMurry. ;)


SRSU 89, Howard Payne 82.  My trifecta is complete!

McMurry and Howard Payne are in a tie for 1st in the ASC-West.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 13, 2006, 10:55:43 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on February 13, 2006, 10:34:05 PM
Drop #8 and add Transylvania at #25 (pushing everyone else up)

I was just preparing to post the poll when I got your message - I responded by message, but now see you also posted.  I had decided to drop the #10 and move everyone else up (with no 25), but have followed your instructions.  Augie blesses you but York curses you since youy have now broken an 8th place tie!

Results as quickly as I can type them up.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 13, 2006, 11:17:33 PM
type quicker  ;D ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 13, 2006, 11:21:47 PM
The Posters' Poll (with a disappointing 9 voters):

1. Woo 224 ( 8 )
2. Larry 217 (1) [note, together they got ALL the 1-2 votes]
3. B-W 203
4. Witt 201 [BW, 5 3rds, 4 4ths; Witt 4 3rds, 4 4ths, 1 5th]
5. Hope 179 [4-8]
6. Amherst 165 [5-16]
7. Albion 157 [6-13]
8. Augie 156 [6-11]
9. York 155 [5-14]
10. IWU 140 [8-15]
11. Miss C 130 [5-15]
12. Va Wes 114 [7-16]
13. Calvin 110 [ 7-20]
14. Carroll 103 [7-23]
15. Oxy 102 [11-18]
16. C Mellon 75 [14-21]
17. Wartburg 73 [10-22, 1NV]
18. SJF 71 [12-22, 1 NV]
19. Lincoln 70 [7-23, 1NV]
20. UW-Stout 56 [12-25, 1NV]
21. Puget Sound 48 [14-24, 3NV]
22. UW-Whitewater 39 [18-25, 2NV]
23. Transylvania 29 [18-25, 1NV]
24. NCC 22 [13-25, 4NV]
25. Elmhurst 16 [19-25, 5NV]

26. Trinity (TX) 11 [2 voters, high 18]
27. Cortland 9 [4 voters, high 22]
27. R-MC 9 [3 voters, high 21]
27. NYU 9 [1 voter]
30. Baruch 6 [1 voter]
31. Tufts 5 [2 voters, high 22]
31. UWSP 5 [2 voters, high 23]
31. Widener 5 [1 voter]
31. WPI 5 [1 voter]
35. Willamette 3 [1 voter]
36. Whitworth 2 [1 voter]
37. UW-LAX 1 [1 voter]
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 13, 2006, 11:29:24 PM
Quote from: sac on February 13, 2006, 11:17:33 PM
type quicker  ;D ;)

Sorry, sac, but I wanted to try to get it right the first time! ;D

In addition to the notes at the top of the table, note that 7-9 are essentially a dead-heat, 14 and 15 are a veritable tie, and 16-19 are VERY tight.

Note also that for MANY of the teams, the spread in voting is much wider than in previous weeks - all those upsets really did cause some indecision!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 13, 2006, 11:41:15 PM
Thanks for posting the Poll!

I had more outliers this week than in any of the previous polls.  I had prided myself in trying to anticipate the consensus, and I found my poll numbers to be in the middle of the range, more often than not!

With all of the losses, I threw out the "conventional wisdom" and started over.

I guess that I will see whether I am prescient or crazy!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 14, 2006, 12:02:11 AM
The consensus is boring, like the middle of the road. Be like Neil Young, and hang out in the ditch - it's more interesting there!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: formerbant10 on February 14, 2006, 12:24:24 AM
Gentlemen,

Sorry about not getting a poll in this week.  Got snowed in at Trinity and spent most of Monday shoveling my car out of 30 inches of snow. 

I'll be back for next week for sure.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 14, 2006, 01:03:15 AM
Quote from: formerbant10 on February 14, 2006, 12:24:24 AM
Gentlemen,

Sorry about not getting a poll in this week.  Got snowed in at Trinity and spent most of Monday shoveling my car out of 30 inches of snow. 

I'll be back for next week for sure.

You're gonna use a mere 30 inches of snow as an excuse?!  Hey, I'm from Illinois and Michigan - we call that a 'dusting'! ;D

Well, OK, I guess I am exaggerating - sounds like an excuse to me!

Comments on how your votes might have changed the poll?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 14, 2006, 01:57:27 AM
I think that 30 inches of snow takes me back to 1988, an inch here, and inch there. ::) :P :-\ ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 14, 2006, 08:08:22 AM
My appologies for completely forgetting to send in my poll.  No snow to blame it on - just simple forgetfullness   :-[ :-[ :-[

My votes would have had little impact - I had Albion, IWU, and Calvin a spot or two lower than where they are, and the others shifted up.  I did not have Elmhurst included but did have Trinity (TX) at 25
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 14, 2006, 09:04:28 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 13, 2006, 10:54:53 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 13, 2006, 04:46:07 PM
Actually, I need Sul Ross State to complete the "Tri-fecta" on HPU in Alpine this evening. That would put HPU back into a tie with McMurry. ;)


SRSU 89, Howard Payne 82.  My trifecta is complete!

McMurry and Howard Payne are in a tie for 1st in the ASC-West.

This is truly a work of diabolical genius; you also somehow jinxed UCONN last night as well.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 14, 2006, 09:08:35 AM

I sure hope Lawrence plays Wooster at some point in the tournament so I can just rub it in to all of you.  That's the joy of picking the underdog.  It's great when you're right and the other guy can't get to excited for winning a game they were supposed to win.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 14, 2006, 12:08:06 PM
Quoteyou also somehow jinxed UCONN last night as well

Nah, that's the price they pay for playing a NESCAC-like non-conference schedule. I'm shocked they don't try to get Elms and Endicott to play them!  ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 14, 2006, 03:05:06 PM

I heard they wanted to schedule Trinity, but they were too afraid UCONN would offer Rhoten a scholarship and refused.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: formerbant10 on February 14, 2006, 07:37:03 PM
Was Rhoten's scholarship offer for football or basketball?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 15, 2006, 12:42:40 AM
Just got a chance to compare the d3hoops.com poll with the PP - I think it is the first week where ALL 25 are the same!  (And 12 teams in the exact same spots, including the first 5.)

The only major differences were we had Calvin 13 to their 19, Wartburg 17 to their 22, and C Mellon 16 to their 20; they had Stout 13 to our 20, and Puget Sound 17 to our 21 - all other differences were three or less.

In the top twelve the ONLY difference was they had York 6th, while we had them 9th (thus the 3 'A' teams all got shifted one spot).  [And our 7-9 teams were virtually interchangeable - so close that a single additional ballot could have completely reshuffled them.]

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 15, 2006, 08:12:50 AM
Good work Ypsi! 

I had Randolph-Macon 24th and North Central down to 25th, with Whitewater and (finally) Lincoln in the polls.  I left out Elmhurst.

I had Calvin in the same spot as the d3hoops poll (19th), Wartburg really high (13th, due to everyone else losing, basically), Carnegie Mellon 20th (same as d3hoops), Stout in the middle (17th), and UPS at 18 (dropping 9 spots).

No love or room for WPI (and they were by boys in the survivor pool) as I dropped them out from 12th. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 15, 2006, 10:02:32 AM

Crazily enough, my poll matched the official d3 hoops poll an astounding four times.

We both had Augie and IWU at 9 and 10 repsectively, both had VA Wesleyan at #12 and both had Oxy at #15.  I had Carnegie Mellon one higher than the official poll and Whitewater one spot lower.

I'm rather concerned at my sudden orthodoxy.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 15, 2006, 02:41:48 PM
I posted my top 25 amalgamation in the Top 25 board, and that has explanations of the issues of Lawrence and Mississippi College.

As of Sunday's games - here's where the posters poll sits with my amalgamation:

1. Woo 224 (1)
2. Larry 217 (4)
3. B-W 203 (2)
4. Witt 201 (3)
5. Hope 179 (5)
6. Amherst 165  (6)
7. Albion 157 (19)
8. Augie 156  (7)
9. York 155 (12)
10. IWU 140 (8 )
11. Miss C (30)
12. Va Wes 114 (18)
13. Calvin 110 (16)
14. Carroll 103 (9)
15. Oxy 102 (33) - SOS is #210
16. C Mellon 75 (11)
17. Wartburg 73 (31)
18. SJF 71 (15)
19. Lincoln 70 (10)
20. UW-Stout 56 (17)
21. Puget Sound 48 (21)
22. UW-Whitewater 39 (24)
23. Transylvania 29 (14)
24. NCC 22 (23)
25. Elmhurst 16 (40)

26. Trinity (TX) (27)
27. Cortland 9 (25)
27. R-MC 9 (37)
27. NYU 9 (22)
30. Baruch 6 (73)
31. Tufts 5 (13)
31. UWSP 5 (56)
31. Widener 5 (28)
31. WPI 5 (32)
35. Willamette 3 (49)
36. Whitworth 2 (46)
37. UW-LAX 1 (20)

Top 10 teams with no votes:

26. Ohio Northern
29. Bates
34. Trinity (CT)
35. Rochester
36. Wilmington
38. St. Thomas - MN
39. College of NJ
41. Franklin
42. Wisc - Oshkosh
43. Hamilton
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: TeeDub on February 15, 2006, 03:51:35 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 15, 2006, 02:41:48 PM

As of Sunday's games - here's where the posters poll sits with my amalgamation:

15. Oxy 102 (33) - SOS is #210


With a SOS so low, why does Oxy get so much love?  I think they are very good, but that seems strange....
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 15, 2006, 03:54:22 PM
The 18-2 record has a lot to do with it - and not a lot of voters pay attention to SOS really. Plus, it's really hard to get a good read on them since they're kind of isolated. Massey has them at 43 and Wolfe at 19 - so the power rankings are even split on them.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: TeeDub on February 15, 2006, 03:59:54 PM
It seems like their QOWI might be influenced by having a Caltech in conference and in region since the rest of their conference (and region) opponents get to inflate their W column by 2 games...or is that a misunderstanding on my part?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 15, 2006, 04:36:13 PM
A win over Cal Tech is worth minimum points.  It won't help them in their own matchups.

It could bump a team over one the thresholds .333, .500, .667 and give them an extra point or two per win. 

Might be a good case study though.  I wouldn't think its worth more than a fraction of a QOWI point.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 15, 2006, 04:43:29 PM
The SOS here has nothing to do with that infernal QOWI index, though.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 15, 2006, 04:45:56 PM

I think the inference was asking if you use the QOWI in any form in your computation?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: TeeDub on February 15, 2006, 04:53:41 PM
Quote from: sac on February 15, 2006, 04:36:13 PM
A win over Cal Tech is worth minimum points.  It won't help them in their own matchups.

It could bump a team over one the thresholds .333, .500, .667 and give them an extra point or two per win. 

Might be a good case study though.  I wouldn't think its worth more than a fraction of a QOWI point.

I am no math guy or pretend to understand all of the QOWI stuff, but if 5 of your conference opponents in region winning percentages are affected by the +2 wins they get over Caltech and that results in only a fraction of a point, isn't that significant?  I mean can't a QOWI of 10.150 instead of a QOWI of 9.865 make or break a Pool C opportunity?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 15, 2006, 05:05:34 PM
True it could, but the truth is most conferences will have a team or two below the .333 threshold anyway.

Wins against those teams are no different.

Check out the NCAC with Oberlin and Hiram.    Those are gimme's for Witt and Woo, but are those any different than say the 4 wins the MIAA teams will pick up playing Alma and Adrian.

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 15, 2006, 06:32:05 PM
smed,

Does the SOS you use rate the whole schedule, the whole d3 schedule, the in-region schedule, or what?

As for QOWI, note that for Oxy it pretty much means the SCIAC due to their d3 isolation.  They play independent Chapman locally, and this year got Whitman to come down for a tourney, but that's the sum of it.  (Not positive, but I think Chapman is the ONLY non-SCIAC d3 that isn't a plane trip away.)  I'd suggest they try to lure some WIAC or MIAC schools out for a sun-filled Christmas trip!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 15, 2006, 10:00:13 PM
It's the Massey SOS, which uses the whole schedule.

The key that it's an amalgamation. Otherwise I wouldn't have time to do my job.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 15, 2006, 10:04:00 PM
If it is the whole schedule, I would imagine Oxy would have enough choices that such a low SOS IS their fault.  Low QOWI they really can't be blamed for.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 15, 2006, 10:53:15 PM
Yeah, unlike Mississippi College, which is rather much locked in, Oxy has some say-so. C-MS has a SOS of 122, for example.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 15, 2006, 11:29:38 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 15, 2006, 10:53:15 PM
Yeah, unlike Mississippi College, which is rather much locked in, Oxy has some say-so. C-MS has a SOS of 122, for example.

The ASC plays double round-robin in-division and single round robin crossover just to get in-region games for its 16 members.  Four teams did not play the full 25 game schedule this year.

The only non-ASC D3 team in a 200 mile radius of MissCollege is Millsaps!

As for the ASC, the conference has a record of 9 wins, 11 losses and 5 byes with one Elite 8 and 4 Sweet 16 appearances since 1998.

The ASC plays good ball; we are just so isolated!

The departure of Austin College to the SCAC will free up one more game on the West and 2 more games on the East.

That may help some with scheduling, but Trinity seldom plays the ASC. (HPU was supposed to finish 5th in the West.)

Southwestern may have been surprised that HSU has been so good these last 2 years.  Southwestern will schedule UMHB because they are only 35 miles up the interstate.

UDallas left the conference 5 years ago, and only has two winning seasons and one Pool B bid to show for it.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 15, 2006, 11:47:26 PM
Ralph - that's what I'm saying. I didn't need no more 'splaining! But won't some of those schools still play Austin to get another regional game in? And if the holiday tourney rule goes in effect, won't some seek out those tourneys instead of playing those D-1 games against the Southland?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 15, 2006, 11:50:24 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 15, 2006, 11:47:26 PM
Ralph - that's what I'm saying. I didn't need no more 'splaining! But won't some of those schools still play Austin to get another regional game in? And if the holiday tourney rule goes in effect, won't some seek out those tourneys instead of playing those D-1 games against the Southland?

Sorry that I was so dense! :-\

Your Wabash Victory Glow was distracting me! ;) ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 15, 2006, 11:55:08 PM
I don't have any suggestions for the NWC, but for the SCIAC and Texas-Mississippi 'islands' - lure snowbelt teams down for a holiday tourney!  For the SCIAC, there are plenty of in-region teams that would love to escape the snow for a bit.  Don't know if that applies to the ASC (probably not), but that proposal for break-time games counting as in-region will probably go through (or did it already, and I missed it?).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 16, 2006, 12:05:14 AM
Oh, you weren't dense - I was inferring a bunch of things tacitly. I thought everyone knew the ASC's conference scheduling conundrum.

Still, even though it yet again partially screws up people's polls, it is refreshing to beat Witt. Aaaaah.... :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 16, 2006, 12:06:43 AM
Ypsi - they'd have to be tip-off tourneys because they get right in the conference race after November.

UT - Dallas came to Wabash to play in a tip-off tourney and even though they lost twice, didn't play poorly, and had ringside seats for an electric crowd in the Wabash / IWU game.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 16, 2006, 12:16:11 AM
Mr Ypsi, I believe that the Holiday legislation did not receive a vote.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 16, 2006, 12:28:46 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 16, 2006, 12:16:11 AM
Mr Ypsi, I believe that the Holiday legislation did not receive a vote.

That is a shame.  To ME, that seems so obviously in line with d3 philosophy, yet a way to get some inter-regional games.

Any idea why it never came to a vote?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 16, 2006, 12:45:08 AM
I think that Coach C said it was tabled.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 16, 2006, 01:04:23 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 16, 2006, 12:16:11 AM
Mr Ypsi, I believe that the Holiday legislation did not receive a vote.

This was the post I was responding to - sorry if I missed the original. :o
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 16, 2006, 02:22:20 AM
Tonight's Carnage on Pat's Top 25:

#3, #4, #8, #10, #14, #15, #22, #25.

Or Mr. Ypsi's version:

#3, #4, #7, #10, #14, #15, #17, #25. ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 16, 2006, 07:30:52 AM
QuoteTonight's Carnage on Pat's Top 25:

Film at 11!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 16, 2006, 09:35:30 AM

The poll should be outrageous.  I can't wait.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 19, 2006, 01:54:56 AM
Several others have updated the results, so it is probably my turn (standing from the official poll):

1. Wooster - beat Kenyon 97-72, LOST to Ohio Wesleyan 86-83
2. Lawrence - beat Carroll 64-63, beat St. Norbert 67-52
3. Baldwin-Wallace - LOST to Ohio Northern 72-68, LOST to Capital 76-71
4. Wittenbeg - LOST to Wabash 51-46, beat Allegheny 87-58
5. Hope - beat Alma 90-46, beat Tri-State 66-54
6. York - beat Gallaudet 94-75, beat Mary Washington 88-75
7. Amherst - beat Connecticut College 74-48
8. Albion - LOST to Calvin 78-66, beat Olivet 81-54
9. Augustana - beat IWU 93-85 OT, LOST to NCC 86-61
10. IWU - LOST to Augie 93-85 OT, beat North Park 94-67
11. Miss. Col. - beat Louisiana Col. 86-65, beat Texas-Dallas 76-55, beat Texas-Tyler 85-73
12. Virginia Weleyan - beat Eastern Mennonite 84-51, then again 75-72 beat Guilford 72-69
13. UW-Stout - beat UW-LaCrosse 71-68
14. Carroll - LOST to Lawrence 64-63, beat Beloit 79-76
15. Occidental - LOST to Redlands 129-123, LOST to Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 62-55
16. St John Fisher - beat Nazareth 67-64, beat Rochester Tech 90-76
17. Puget Sound - beat Willamette 93-68, beat Linfield 105-67
18. Lincoln - IDLE
19. Calvin - beat Albion 78-66, beat Kalamazoo 74-65
20. Carnegie Mellon - LOST to Emory 88-74, beat Case Western 80-75
21. North Central - beat Elmhurst 62-59, beat Augie 86-61
22. Wartburg - LOST to Buena Vista 68-65, beat Cornell 88-66
23. Transylvania - beat Franklin 74-70, beat Defiance 85-53
24. UW-Whitewater - beat UW-Oshkosh 59-49, beat UW-Eau Claire 91-88 2OT
25. Elmhurst - LOST to NCC 62-59, beat Wheaton 89-65

I also have compiled results for 21 ORVs, but that will have to await tomorrow!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 19, 2006, 11:31:02 AM
Here's what some others did last week:

WPI - beat Springfiled 83-76
Ohio Northern - beat Baldwin-Wallace 72-68, bat Joh Carroll 73-58
Whitworth - beat Whitman 88-74, beat Pacific 66-60
NYU - LOST to Rochester 67-53, LOST to Chicago 62-60, LOST to WashU 63-59
Randolph-Macon - beat Bridgewater 69-59, then again 65-55, beat Hampden-Sydney 92-83 OT
Cortland - beat New Paltz 71-59, LOST to Geneseo 76-70, beat Fredonia 73-53
UW-Oshkosh - LOST to UW-Whitewater 59-49, beat UW-Platteville 80-66
Carleton - beat St. Mary's (MN) 65-46, beat Bethel 90-70
Trinity (CT) - beat Colby 84-81
Trinity (TX) - beat Sewanee 88-80, beat Centre 70-65
St. Thomas - beat Concordia-Moorhead 63-44

gotta run - more later
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 19, 2006, 12:54:34 PM
And now some others:

Christopher Newport - LOST to Greensboro 88-82, LOST to Methodist 89-77
Ursinus - beat Haverford 88-61, LOST to Muhlenberg 74-70
UW-LaCrosse - beat UW-River Falls 80-75 2OT, LOST to UW-Stout 71-68
Washington U - beat Brandeis 78-68, beat NYU 63-59
Baruch - beat Medgar Evers 88-86 OT
Tufts - beat Williams 101-89
UW-Stevens Point - LOST to UW-Platteville 66-65, beat UW-Superior 85-56
Widener - beat Moravian 64-60, LOST to Messiah 66-62
Bates - beat Bowdoin 89-79
Willamette - LOST to UPS 93-68, beat George Fox 79-76

Corrections appreciated.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 19, 2006, 09:11:58 PM
3 ballots in.  Remarkable agreement on WHO are the top teams (only 27 teams named so far), though great disagreement on WHERE they place (several teams with a spread of 8 slots or more already).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 19, 2006, 09:21:36 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 19, 2006, 01:54:56 AM
Several others have updated the results, so it is probably my turn (standing from the official poll):

Way to be a team player!  :D  My poll will be in tomorrow like usual, via email.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 20, 2006, 09:58:04 AM

Alright, for the second week in a row we have to figure out a mess.  Luckily my #1 didn't lose (and hasn't... all year).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 20, 2006, 10:18:47 AM

OK, it wasn't really as hard as I thought.  I even put Puget Sound back into my top 25.  Wierd huh.  As per my custom of the last few weeks, here's my just left off list:

Ohio Northern
Trinity (TX)
Elmhurst
Willamette
Occidental
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Knightstalker on February 20, 2006, 10:36:18 AM
Mr. Ypsi, do you still have my poll from last week?  I forgot to send it to my home computer before I ran away from work on Friday.  If you have it please send it to me in an IM.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 20, 2006, 06:32:21 PM
8 ballots in, 90 minutes to go.

Come on guys - we can make this the best turn-out yet!  Our prodigal guru, GS, has returned to the fold!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on February 20, 2006, 07:33:59 PM
There's a CHANCE I may actually get mine in on time this week...

We'll see how long it takes me to formulate all my picks (and hopefully I don't reward a team twice like last week!)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: titanfan on February 20, 2006, 07:49:27 PM
Chuck, I just sent my to your email!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Knightstalker on February 20, 2006, 08:06:00 PM
Mine should be coming shortly, I am just now able to get to it.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 20, 2006, 09:16:21 PM
This week's Posters' Poll (range of votes):

1. Lawrence, 300 [unanymous top pick]
2. Wooster, 271 (2-7)
3. Hope, 269 (2-10)
4. Amherst, 245 (3-13)
5. Wittenberg, 241 (4-8)
6. York, 235 (4-15)
7. Mississippi Col, 225 (2-12)
8. Virginia Wesleyan, 211 (3-14)
9. Baldwin-Wallace, 200 (4-15)
10. Calvin, 186 (2-15)
11. Augustana, 168 (7-15, 1NV)
12. Albion, 156 (7-20, 1NV)
13. IWU, 155 (10-17)
14. UW-Stout, 131 (9-22)
15. Carroll, 126 (3-23)
16. North Central, 113 (9-23)
17. Lincoln, 112 (6-24)
18. St John Fisher, 101 (10-25, 1NV)
19. Puget Sound, 92 (15-23)
20. UW-Whitewater, 87 (12-22)
21. Transylvania, 82 (17-22)
22. C Mellon, 34 (19-24, 4NV)
23. Randolph-Macon, 33 (16-25, 5NV)
24. Wartburg, 25 (4 voters, high 13)
25. Ohio Northern, 22 (22-25, 4NV)

26. Trinity(TX), 21 (5 voters, high 19)
27. WPI, 11 (2 voters, high 16)
28. Oxy, 9 (4 voters, high 22)
      Tufts, 9 (3 voters, high 21)
30. Cortland, 6 (1 voter)
      Widener, 6 (1 voter)
32. Elmhurst, 5 (3 voters, high 23)
33. Baruch, 2 (1 voter)
      Gordon, 2 (1 voter)
      Trinity(CT), 2 (1voter)
      UW-LAX, 2 (1 voter)
37. Wash U, 1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 20, 2006, 09:48:31 PM
Nice job Mr Y...........but could you clue us in to the number of posters.

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 20, 2006, 09:57:26 PM
Quote from: sac on February 20, 2006, 09:48:31 PM
Nice job Mr Y...........but could you clue us in to the number of posters.



Aw, come on, sac!  With top 25 voting, first place is worth 25 points - Lawrence had 300 points....

(For anyone who absolutely REFUSES to do the math, there were 12 voters.)

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 20, 2006, 10:00:11 PM
Hey, it wasn't me voting for UW-LaCrosse this time!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 20, 2006, 10:07:23 PM
Well, yes I refuse to do math, if I'm not properly compensation by the polling chairman.


I like it when almost all my teams arent' the highest or lowest range of votes.

Calvin #2 ?  :o

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 20, 2006, 10:11:45 PM
Yeah, and no votes for Augie and Albion!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 20, 2006, 10:27:00 PM
If I'm correct, this is the 7th Poster's Poll.  I think this is the first time I had all 25 teams picked!  :D 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 20, 2006, 10:39:19 PM
As to Calvin #2, that came from a HoF voter NOT affiliated with the MIAA.

As to Augie and Albion not being listed, I did check with the Albion-omitter, who acknowledged the omission was unintentional but chose not to change his ballot; with the Augie omission I decided to run the poll (this was the last ballot received) since Augie could move up only if Augie was now in the top 6 (which I deemed unlikely for someone who forgot to list them at all).

Other poll notes:

The top 21 are pretty solid (for THIS week!) - all received votes from at least 11 of the 12 voters.  The rest is fairly random.  (#24 Wartburg is in the top 25 pretty much due to a single voter - in such a small poll, your vote DOES count!)

Hope actually got 5 seconds to 4 for Wooster - the voter who put Hope 10th pretty much determined the 2,3 race!

Smedindy and I punished Bald Wally for their two loss week far more than others did - though overall we still punished them more than the real poll.

Smed's crusade for respect for Lincoln doesn't seem to be gaining much traction (after his 6th, the second highest rating was 14th, though only two put them below 19th).

Knightstalker was the one who tried to put Baruch on our radar - so why was the ONLY listing of Baruch this week by someone else?!

Overall, note the incredible range of placings for many teams.  For the top 20 or so, we've decided on WHO, but we are very much undecided on WHERE!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 20, 2006, 11:02:19 PM
I just think B-W's stumbles are concerning at this time of year.

And you know, if Lincoln gets a good draw, watch out!

I think the placings are due to the wild nature of the year. I have written off Wartburg and that conference and am not comfortable with R-MC. In my initial poll, I had Cortland in but noticed I forgot St. John Fisher.

And that screaming THUD you heard? It's any respect at all for NYU plummeting out the window.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: hugenerd on February 20, 2006, 11:39:49 PM
I know the NCAA committee will not care, but to be fair to NYU, they played this weekend without their best player and UAA MVP candidate Jason Boone.  He is top 5 in the league in scoring and rebounding, not to mention the presence he brings to the lane.  In my opinion, they probably would have won both those close games with him but thats how it goes with injuries.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: formerbant10 on February 20, 2006, 11:44:55 PM
Injuries are a part of the game, as unfortunate as it is.

But that being said, NYU did not have him and did lose.  And that's all that really matters. 

Would the NCAA want an NYU team that is playing w/o their best player in the tourney anyway?

Which is too bad, because they've had a great season up till now.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 21, 2006, 12:49:38 AM
That's too bad - I didn't know that. I just saw the scores.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 21, 2006, 07:37:36 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 20, 2006, 10:39:19 PM
Other poll notes:

(#24 Wartburg is in the top 25 pretty much due to a single voter - in such a small poll, your vote DOES count!)

Uh?  In the poll you say there were 4 voters with a high of 13.  I had them 23rd, dropping 10 spots.

Quote from: smedindy on February 21, 2006, 12:49:38 AM
That's too bad - I didn't know that. I just saw the scores.

I dont' think anyone has time to go through every game story to find out what team's stars played and who's didn't. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 21, 2006, 08:50:52 AM
Quote from: smedindy on February 20, 2006, 10:00:11 PM
Hey, it wasn't me voting for UW-LaCrosse this time!

I did it.  It seems like they deserved it; I don't know those last few spots were toss-ups.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 21, 2006, 08:51:39 AM
QuoteUh?  In the poll you say there were 4 voters with a high of 13.  I had them 23rd, dropping 10 spots.

Well, with such a small pool of votes, something like a outlier 13th can vault someone over other teams easily.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 21, 2006, 08:54:02 AM

I love the range on Carroll (3-23) that's just nuts.  I probably should be putting Lincoln higher, as I expect them to cruise to at least the elite eight, but I'm not convinced they belong in the class with those Midwest schools just yet.  I'm a hard sell.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 21, 2006, 08:57:27 AM
What can we do for you to get into this Lincoln??
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Knightstalker on February 21, 2006, 10:00:49 AM
I know I had Lincoln moving up even though they were inactive.  Teams ahead of them dropped a lot for me, and I couldn't see jumping teams that I think they would beat over them.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 21, 2006, 06:41:56 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 21, 2006, 08:51:39 AM
QuoteUh?  In the poll you say there were 4 voters with a high of 13.  I had them 23rd, dropping 10 spots.

Well, with such a small pool of votes, something like a outlier 13th can vault someone over other teams easily.

Thanks for responding for me, smed - I've FINALLY logged on for the first time today (and seeking to avoid the 50-some stat exams waiting to be graded)!

If you check the Wartburg vote totals, they received 13 points from one voter, and a total of 12 points from the other eleven!  Since they only beat #26 Trinity(TX) by 4 points....
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: dblock on February 21, 2006, 11:25:45 PM
not only has nyu now lost Jason Boone, dont forget they lost Daniel Falcon early against CMU. Falcon was averging around 13 and 15. Add that to Jason Boone's post dominance, and NYU would not have lost half the games they lost. Regardless, the UAA is an all around strong divison and every team in the division is real good.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: hugenerd on February 21, 2006, 11:54:10 PM
What ever happened to Falcon..., and 15 boards is a huge exaggeration, he only averaged 6 per game in conference and 9 per game overall; also, he avergaed 7 ppg in conference and 12 ppg overall.  He is a good player but not a 13 and 15 guy in the UAA by any stretch.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 22, 2006, 09:57:06 AM

hugenerd: regulating the UAA, right on.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 22, 2006, 11:35:26 AM
smedindy:

Thanks for your suport for Lincoln moving up in the polls.  I don't think it will take take much for Hoops Fan to come over to the Lions Den  :) . 

Old School may be the most difficult Lion convert  ;D .
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 22, 2006, 12:00:07 PM

I've been on the bandwagon, but up until this week, I've had very little reason to put any team from the Eastern half of the d3 world up that high.  I might be rethinking things now.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 22, 2006, 01:30:21 PM
I try not to have bias or preconceived notions, because the numbers are what they are.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 24, 2006, 11:19:50 AM

So, I assume we'll be doing a Poll on Monday.  Will we hold off until after the tournament for a final poll, like Pat does?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 24, 2006, 01:01:59 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 24, 2006, 11:19:50 AM

So, I assume we'll be doing a Poll on Monday.  Will we hold off until after the tournament for a final poll, like Pat does?

Yes, to a poll this Monday.

I've been trying to decide the same thing as far as your second question - what do the voters think?  (And what does Pat think - if you would have any objection to us doing a poll when you are not, it won't happen - at least by me!)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 24, 2006, 01:06:20 PM
I agree the concept with a poll on Monday and then a final poll after the tourney.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: formerbant10 on February 24, 2006, 01:45:34 PM
I'm good either way.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 24, 2006, 01:53:39 PM

Whatever, just let me know ahead of time, so I can, you know, pay attention to the games and stuff.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2006, 09:43:25 AM

Ok, time to try and figure out my last regular season ballot.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2006, 11:14:10 AM

My poll is away.  I hope the rest of the voters don't forget about it.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 27, 2006, 11:28:47 AM
I'm in as well.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 27, 2006, 03:05:54 PM
I will send mine by the 7 pm (CST) deadline.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 27, 2006, 06:49:13 PM
As of now, only 3 ballots in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 27, 2006, 08:07:04 PM
I sent you mine about fifteen minutes ago, Chuck.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 27, 2006, 08:16:22 PM
GS, got it.  We're now up to six - where are you OS, PS, titanfan, FDF, 'stalker, formerbant?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 27, 2006, 08:44:50 PM
You may want to hold off a day or so Mr Y, I think the tournament selection has people occupied with other things.

I almost forgot myself.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 27, 2006, 08:48:36 PM
I agree. The tournament selection announcement is a major distraction for people. They may have forgotten about the posters' poll, or just not gotten around to it.

But it's your call, Chuck.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 27, 2006, 09:02:59 PM
With all this tourney stuff and finding out about ticket info for the Whitewater regional...I totally forgot about the poster's poll.  My apologies.  I failed, and I failed miserably.  :'(
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: titanfan on February 27, 2006, 09:12:38 PM
Quote from: Old School on February 27, 2006, 09:02:59 PM
With all this tourney stuff and finding out about ticket info for the Whitewater regional...I totally forgot about the poster's poll.  My apologies.  I failed, and I failed miserably.  :'(

Me too Chuck.  I'm so sorry.  Can we wait until tomorrow night?  I'll have it for you then.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 27, 2006, 09:15:22 PM
I have already filed mine, but I would trust my fellow pollsters to maintain the integrity of an independent poll! ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Knightstalker on February 27, 2006, 10:03:39 PM
I will be able to get you one tomorrow, I hope.  I will try, but will not promise.  If I can't get it done I will send you a message.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 27, 2006, 10:18:34 PM
I could have sworn I already posted this, but it doesn't seem to be here. ???

Because of all the selection distractions, the PP is postponed until tomorrow, 8 ET.  I'd rather have a full poll late, than a half poll on time! ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 28, 2006, 01:11:16 AM
Our delayed men's poll is up now.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 28, 2006, 08:09:15 AM
My poll will be in later today...
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 28, 2006, 09:40:08 AM
The waiting is killing me!!




[Feel free to provide a barrage of Tom Petty references here]
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 28, 2006, 02:12:02 PM
With greatest appologies - I completely forgot  - HOPEfully I can get all this darn work done in time to get  a poll done and off to you by 8pm.  I swear on the condiment dispensers at the DeVos Fieldhouse (ask David Colligne) not to look at Pat's poll until I send mine in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 28, 2006, 05:44:45 PM
Barely over 2 hours left, and we've been stuck on 6 ballots for over 21 hours!

FDF, if you do not find the time, the DeVos condiments will become generic brand! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 28, 2006, 07:26:16 PM
30+ minutes left, and titanfan makes it 7 - but, c'mon guys, don't make me release a poll with less than 10 voters! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 28, 2006, 07:40:35 PM
its coming, usually i use my previous poll as a guage to this one, but I accidently erased it...so, it's a little tougher this time around! lol.  You'll get it.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: formerbant10 on February 28, 2006, 08:05:35 PM
Just sent mine in, sorry it was late.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 28, 2006, 09:19:30 PM
At last - the Posters' Poll!  Just as I was about to post it, family matters intervened.  I figured, oh, well, gives more time for more ballots!  Alas, no sale.  PS, may you be reduced to drinking Pabst in place of Point Special; FDF, may all the DeVos condiments be generics from Sam's Club; Knightstalker, you already have to live in Jersey, what worse could I possibly wish on you?  ;) ;D :(

Only 9 voters, but here goes:

1. Lawrence, 225 (unanimous)
2. Hope, 211 (2-4)
3. Witt, 197 (3-6)
4. Amherst, 191 (2-12)
5. Woo, 181 (3-8)
6. MissC, 176 (2-9)
7. VaWes, 175 (3-10)
8. BaldWally, 172 (5-11)
9. York, 136 (4-18)
10. Augie, 125 (8-19)
11. Calvin, 121 (9-19)
12. Carroll, 114 (5-18)
      IWU, 114 (10-17)
14. NCC, 112 (10-21)
15. UWW, 106 (9-21)
16. Lincoln, 95 ( 6-23)
17. Stout, 74 (13-23)
18. SJF, 71 (8-22, 1NV)
19. UPS, 69 (14-23)
20. Albion, 68 (11-20, 3NV)
21. Transy, 59 (17-21)
22. CMellon, 34 (19-22, 3NV)
23. RMC, 26 (15-25, 1NV)
24. WPI, 19 (4 voters, hi 16)
25. Tufts, 18 (5 voters, hi 20)

26. St. Thomas, 14 (3 voters, hi 21)
27. ONU, 12 (5 voters, hi 22)
28. LAX, 6 (3 voters, hi 23)
29. CMS, 5 (2 voters, hi 23)
30. WmPat, 3 (1 voter)
31. Baruch, 1
      Cortland, 1
      WashU, 1

Have to go pick up my son - comments when I return.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 28, 2006, 09:49:27 PM
kids...always getting in the way of things!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Knightstalker on February 28, 2006, 09:55:14 PM
That I be transferred to Michigan?   ::)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 28, 2006, 09:58:06 PM
If the PP is to be believed, THE first round match-up is #12 Carroll vs #12 IWU!  A game you'd kinda prefer to see in the second or third round, but there it is.

Quite a consensus on WHO (the top 17, plus 19 and 21, were on everyone's ballots), but a LOT of disagreement on WHERE.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 28, 2006, 10:23:03 PM
Quote from: knightstalker on February 28, 2006, 09:55:14 PM
That I be transferred to Michigan?   ::)

ba da boom! ;D

But I'm familiar with nearly all of Michigan and more than half of NJ; I think I'll take Michigan, thanks (though maybe not in February). ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 01, 2006, 09:04:03 AM

Well South Jersey should really be another state, so I guess that doesn't count, but it is rather nice once you get south and east of Philly.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Knightstalker on March 01, 2006, 10:18:33 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 01, 2006, 09:04:03 AM

Well South Jersey should really be another state, so I guess that doesn't count, but it is rather nice once you get south and east of Philly.

That's a matter of opinion.  I think most of south jersey is flat and boring.  In my opinion the northwest part of the state is still the nicest.  Warren, Hunterdon, Morris, Sussex and northwestern chunk of Passiac.  Hills, rivers, streams, lakes and ponds and no scary pineys.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on March 01, 2006, 10:20:32 AM
Hey, that Russian that Chris and Paulie were supposed to have whacked is probably still running around the Pine Barrens!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Knightstalker on March 01, 2006, 10:21:07 AM
I wish to apologize, I was not able to complete the last poll.  I was extremely busy with the month end problems caused by impatient sales teams manually entering transactions that have been received electronically.  Fun times every month.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Knightstalker on March 01, 2006, 10:22:14 AM
Quote from: smedindy on March 01, 2006, 10:20:32 AM
Hey, that Russian that Chris and Paulie were supposed to have whacked is probably still running around the Pine Barrens!

You never know what's running around in the barrens.  I am pretty sure some people have gotten lost in there and have had a "Deliverance" experience.

Of course you can experience that in the upper peninsula also.   :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 01, 2006, 10:34:10 AM

I forgot about the Northwest.  It is very nice.  I enjoyed the High Point State Park very much.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: David Collinge on March 01, 2006, 05:09:35 PM
I spent a lot of quality time as an adolescent in my grandmother's lakefront cabin at Swartzwood Lake in Sussex Co.  An idyllic place, almost exactly the opposite of the stereotype of New Jersey. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 05, 2006, 07:01:52 PM
No poll this week, but thought I'd update how teams have fared:

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 28, 2006, 09:19:30 PM

1. Lawrence, 225 (unanimous) beat St. Thomas, 63-59
2. Hope, 211 (2-4) embarrassed WisLu, 93-51; beat Calvin, 70-67
3. Witt, 197 (3-6) destroyed Lake Erie, 76-40; humbled Bald Wally, 78-60
4. Amherst, 191 (2-12) did in Hamilton, 83-59
5. Woo, 181 (3-8) beat RMC 84-70; lost to Transy, 91-88
6. MissC, 176 (2-9) beat up Maryville (MO), 88-58; beat Maryville (TN) 69-51 [alas, they've run out of Maryvilles!]
7. VaWes, 175 (3-10) beat Farmingdale 71-61
8. BaldWally, 172 (5-11) beat C Mellon, 79-71; lost to Witt, 78-60
9. York, 136 (4-18) beat the other York, 87-67; lost to Widener, 71-69
10. Augie, 125 (8-19) beat BV, 71-66; beat Stout, 77-70
11. Calvin, 121 (9-19) beat LAX, 79-71; lost to Hope, 70-67
12. Carroll, 114 (5-18) lost to IWU, 81-68
      IWU, 114 (10-17) beat Carroll, 81-68; beat Whitewater, 85-71
14. NCC, 112 (10-21) lost to St. Thomas, 76-68
15. UWW, 106 (9-21) beat DePauw, 76-68, lost to IWU, 85-71
16. Lincoln, 95 ( 6-23) beat CNewport, 102-96; beat Messiah, 100-80
17. Stout, 74 (13-23) beat Carleton, 66-64; lost to Augie, 77-70
18. SJF, 71 (8-22, 1NV) beat Norwich, 71-50
19. UPS, 69 (14-23) beat Oxy, 89-81
20. Albion, 68 (11-20, 3NV) [not in tourney]
21. Transy, 59 (17-21) beat Bethany 75-56; beat Woo, 91-88
22. CMellon, 34 (19-22, 3NV) lost to Bald Wally, 79-71
23. RMC, 26 (15-25, 1NV) lost to Woo, 84-70
24. WPI, 19 (4 voters, hi 16) beat Bridgewater, 79-62; lost to Utica, 76-58
25. Tufts, 18 (5 voters, hi 20) beat Endicott, 83-60; beat Cortland, 68-65

26. St. Thomas, 14 (3 voters, hi 21) beat NCC, 76-68; lost to Larry, 63-59
27. ONU, 12 (5 voters, hi 22) [not in tourney]
28. LAX, 6 (3 voters, hi 23) lost to Calvin, 79-71
29. CMS, 5 (2 voters, hi 23) lost to Oxy, 48-41
30. WmPat, 3 (1 voter) beat Scranton 70-45; beat Villa Julie, 72-48
31. Baruch, 1 lost to Villa Julie, 86-71
      Cortland, 1 beat Mass-Boston, 68-54; lost to Tufts, 68-65
      WashU, 1 [not in tourney]


Additionally, there are two teams in the Sweet Sixteen who received no votes:

Utica - beat Gordon, 71-66; beat WPI, 76-58
Widener - beat Catholic, 61-59; beat York (PA), 71-69
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 06, 2006, 09:30:10 AM

I might rank this week, just to keep my thoughts in order.

Witt impressed this weekend, although its easier to win at home.  How much did they pay to not have the Regional Finals at DeVos?  I have Hope making the final four basically because they were going to have home court advantage throughout.  I'm not sure what will happen now.

Would it be wrong of me to move Calvin up my list after the second round loss?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on March 06, 2006, 11:17:57 AM
Well, in the NCAA criteria, Hope was actually third down on the list behind MC and Witt.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on March 06, 2006, 04:42:40 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 06, 2006, 09:30:10 AM
Would it be wrong of me to move Calvin up my list after the second round loss?

No not at all, thats a very good team.  They could play with anyone in my opinion.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 19, 2006, 12:25:34 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 05, 2006, 07:01:52 PM
Poll this week, thought I'd update how teams have fared:

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 28, 2006, 09:19:30 PM

1. Lawrence, 225 (unanimous) beat St. Thomas, 63-59; lost to IWU, 71-68
2. Hope, 211 (2-4) embarrassed WisLu, 93-51; beat Calvin, 70-67; lost to Witt, 56-49
3. Witt, 197 (3-6) destroyed Lake Erie, 76-40; humbled Bald Wally, 78-60; beat Hope, 56-49, beat Transy, 74-61, beat Amherst, 64-60, lost to VaWes, 59-56
4. Amherst, 191 (2-12) did in Hamilton, 83-59; beat Tufts in OT, 90-82; beat SJF, 93-70; lost to Witt, 64-60; lost to IWU, 71-68
5. Woo, 181 (3-8) beat RMC 84-70; lost to Transy, 91-88
6. MissC, 176 (2-9) beat up Maryville (MO), 88-58; beat Maryville (TN) 69-51 [alas, they've run out of Maryvilles!]; lost to Transy, 76-64
7. VaWes, 175 (3-10) beat Farmingdale 71-61; beat Lincoln, 72-71; beat WmPat, 46-35; beat IWU, 81-79; beat Witt, 59-56
8. BaldWally, 172 (5-11) beat C Mellon, 79-71; lost to Witt, 78-60
9. York, 136 (4-18) beat the other York, 87-67; lost to Widener, 71-69
10. Augie, 125 (8-19) beat BV, 71-66; beat Stout, 77-70; lost to UPS, 92-86 [note: senior PG was injured - a real handicap against UPS!]
11. Calvin, 121 (9-19) beat LAX, 79-71; lost to Hope, 70-67
12. Carroll, 114 (5-18) lost to IWU, 81-68
12. IWU, 114 (10-17) beat Carroll, 81-68; beat Whitewater, 85-71; beat Larry, 71-68; beat UPS, 113-99; lost to VaWes, 81-79; beat Amherst, 71-68
14. NCC, 112 (10-21) lost to St. Thomas, 76-68
15. UWW, 106 (9-21) beat DePauw, 76-68, lost to IWU, 85-71
16. Lincoln, 95 ( 6-23) beat CNewport, 102-96; beat Messiah, 100-80; lost to VaWes, 72-71
17. Stout, 74 (13-23) beat Carleton, 66-64; lost to Augie, 77-70
18. SJF, 71 (8-22, 1NV) beat Norwich, 71-50; beat Utica, 94-78; lost to Amherst, 93-70
19. UPS, 69 (14-23) beat Oxy, 89-81; beat Augie, 92-86; lost to IWU, 113-99
20. Albion, 68 (11-20, 3NV) [not in tourney]
21. Transy, 59 (17-21) beat Bethany 75-56; beat Woo, 91-88; beat MissC, 76-64; lost to Witt, 74-61
22. CMellon, 34 (19-22, 3NV) lost to Bald Wally, 79-71
23. RMC, 26 (15-25, 1NV) lost to Woo, 84-70
24. WPI, 19 (4 voters, hi 16) beat Bridgewater, 79-62; lost to Utica, 76-58
25. Tufts, 18 (5 voters, hi 20) beat Endicott, 83-60; beat Cortland, 68-65; lost to Amherst in OT, 90-82

26. St. Thomas, 14 (3 voters, hi 21) beat NCC, 76-68; lost to Larry, 63-59
27. ONU, 12 (5 voters, hi 22) [not in tourney]
28. LAX, 6 (3 voters, hi 23) lost to Calvin, 79-71
29. CMS, 5 (2 voters, hi 23) lost to Oxy, 48-41
30. WmPat, 3 (1 voter) beat Scranton 70-45; beat Villa Julie, 72-48; beat Widener, 71-69; lost to VaWes, 46-35
31. Baruch, 1 lost to Villa Julie, 86-71
      Cortland, 1 beat Mass-Boston, 68-54; lost to Tufts, 68-65
      WashU, 1 [not in tourney]


Additionally, there are two teams in the Sweet Sixteen who received no votes:

Utica - beat Gordon, 71-66; beat WPI, 76-58; lost to SJF, 94-78
Widener - beat Catholic, 61-59; beat York (PA), 71-69; lost to Wm Pat, 52-45

The polling booth is now open for balloting!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on March 19, 2006, 10:31:26 AM
When is the deadline. i am at a conference and may not get it done in time!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 19, 2006, 01:11:08 PM
Since there is no urgency, I'll just wait until there are at least 9 or 10 voters.

I'd LIKE to get it out by tomorrow night, but if it is Tuesday or Wednesday, so be it (that should still leave plenty of discussion time before the next game! :'()
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 20, 2006, 07:19:13 PM
I probably won't have my poll out until later tonight or tomorrow morning...sorry for any inconvenience.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: titanfan on March 20, 2006, 10:46:38 PM
Ypsi, I'll try to get you mine tomorrow, though I don't want to make any promises.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 20, 2006, 11:18:34 PM
Only 4 ballots in so far.

Trying not to tip the voting, the top 3 so far are unanimous, but NOT all in the same order.

One team seems particularly controversial: they are 12th and 13th on 2 ballots; entirely omitted on 2 others.

We have 33 teams named already - this season never did clarify a top 25!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 21, 2006, 08:58:45 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 20, 2006, 11:18:34 PM
One team seems particularly controversial: they are 12th and 13th on 2 ballots; entirely omitted on 2 others.


My guess is its either Carroll or WPI.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 21, 2006, 09:45:35 AM
Na...WPI wasn't ranked that high to begin with.  #24, high of 16 in the last poster's poll.  I would guess York!  They were 9th, (4-18 variation) and they beat up on the other York before losing to "I forget"...maybe two of those guys that got their polls in were at the bottom end of that variation and felt a second round exit was good enough to boot! ;D  Though Carroll would be a good guess...

It's speculation, but I'm guessing the top 3 are Virg. Wes., Witt and Ill. Wes. with the latter two switching spots with voters.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 21, 2006, 10:01:20 AM

You know, that's probably true.  My poll is in and I left York off of it.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 21, 2006, 04:17:45 PM
D3hoops.com Top 25 posted.
http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 21, 2006, 04:33:05 PM
York and Carroll are good guesses - but wrong.  OS, you're pretty much correct about the top 3, though one of them fell to 4th on one ballot.

OK, no more hints!  We're up to 6 voters at this point; hoping for at least 4 more before I release it.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 21, 2006, 04:34:56 PM
I noticed the inherent love that Trinity TX has in Pat's D3hoops.com poll.  TU received 7 votes in the final poll.

Maryville TN, which very convincingly defeated Trinity on a neutral floor in the first round, received zero votes.

The Trinity that defeated VWC and ASC-West winner Howard Payne in November took a nose dive in February.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: David Collinge on March 21, 2006, 09:49:27 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 20, 2006, 11:18:34 PM
Trying not to tip the voting, the top 3 so far are unanimous, but NOT all in the same order.

It appears that four of the "mainline" top 25 voters put IWU in 2nd and Witt in 3rd, as Witt received 596 votes (4 votes shy of a perfect all-second-place poll) and IWU received 579 (4 points more than a perfect all-third-place poll.)

Amherst was not a unanimous #4, either, having received 539 votes (11 fewer than all-fourth-place).  I find that a little difficult to justify, since all 4 games in Salem went right down to the wire.  If I were a voter, I'd need a lot to convince me to not rank the top four the way the tournament came out (VWC, Witt, IWU, Amherst.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Titan Q on March 21, 2006, 10:19:12 PM
You could argue a lot of different ways on that one, David.  IWU basically lost to Virginia Wesleyan in exactly the same fashion as Wittenberg did...in the final seconds.  And they both beat Amherst in tight games.  I didn't see anything in Salem that would indicate which should be #2 and which #3.   So then you look at the run IWU had leading up to Salem (the games since the last poll).  IWU won @ Whitewater and @ previous #1 Lawrence.  Wittenberg beat great teams, but did so at home.  One could easily make a case for IWU #2.

As far as who else could have been ranked #4 over Amherst, look at Lawrence for example -- LU lost a thriller to IWU in the Sectional semifinal in a game the Vikings led most of the way.  IWU controlled the game vs Amherst the entire way for the most part.  Lawrence has a great case for #4 I think.  (And as someone who has seen both, I think Lawrence is the better team.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on March 21, 2006, 10:27:29 PM
I think its important to look at the full body of work, not just the tournament.  Makeing the Final Four doesn't erase earlier losses in the season.

Despite makeing the final and nearly winning the title, Wittenberg underwhelmed me in person.  If the Sectionals aren't in Springfield Witt doesn't make Salem.  Thats my opinion.

Amherst is a good team no doubt but they didn't match up in the tournament with Lawrence,  Whitewater, Augustana, Hope, Calvin, Wooster etc etc.  Amherst doesn't make Salem if they have to come out of the Midwest or Great Lakes.


There are top 10 teams that didn't make it past the Sweet 16 because of the non-national seeding in D3........happens every year.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 21, 2006, 10:55:50 PM
I think both Lawrence and Hope (#1 and #2 entering the tourney, and both losing narrowly to final four teams) could very easily be justified as slipping in somewhere AMONG the final four teams.

I've gone on record that I don't feel an obligation to automatically vote the champion as #1 (e.g., Villanova and NCSt would NOT have been #1 on my ballot), though I DID vote VWC #1.  My gut hunch is that, in a ten-game series against either Witt or IWU, VaWes wins only 3 or 4, but they were a worthy team and DID win the only one that got played.  I perhaps bent over backwards TOO far to avoid my Green bias and put Witt 2 and IWU 3, but I agree with Q that a VERY plausible case can be made for the reverse order.  And based on total body-of-work, I put both Larry and Hope ahead of Amherst.

We've been stuck on just six voters for a long time now - Greg?  titanfan? PS? FDF? stalker? smed? (and, what the heck, it's the final PP - Q? David? April? anyone??).

I'll put the poll out about 9pm (EST) tomorrow, but I sure hope it will have a lot more than 6 voters!!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 22, 2006, 12:16:36 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 21, 2006, 10:55:50 PM

- Greg?  titanfan? PS? FDF? stalker? smed? (and, what the heck, it's the final PP - Q? David? April? anyone??).


C'mon, friends!  Please vote!  If we cannot get a decent number of voters for the final poll, why should anyone try to have a posters' poll next year?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 22, 2006, 08:16:40 AM
I agree with Mr. Ypsi, that I don't feel obligated to crown the champion #1.  But, Virginia Wesleyan deserved it.  If you think about it, polls are basically based on weekly performances.  If Team A is 5-0 going into a week and loses, then Team B is likely to leapfrog Team A if they didn't lose during the week.  That's the nature of the polls, IMO.

We can argue until the cows come home that Amherst wouldn't have been in Salem had they played in the Great Lakes/Midwest Region or whatever.  But, they haven't done that all year.  I've never considered Lawrence's schedule very demanding, aside from two games with Carroll, the early season battle with obviously over-rated Oshkosh and possibly their away game to rival Ripon considered "quality wins".  But, you have to give Lawrence credit for winning ALL of their games in the regular season...just like you have to give credit to Amherst, IWU, Virginia Wes and Wittenberg for winning the games they won. 

All four teams, IMO, warranted 1-4 since they were all highly ranked prior to the tourney starting.  VWC deserves the #1 ranking for not only winning it all (though, as I said, that's not a guarantee), but for basically upsetting the Final Four favorite, IWU, and for upsetting Wittenberg, who was ranked higher than they were as well.


Wittenberg deserves the #2 ranking because they lost in the final, after topping #4 Amherst in the semi-finals.  IWU should get the nod for #3 because, IMO, they had the toughest road to the Final Four.  They beat WIAC tourney and regular season champ. Whitewater on their home floor, and then knocked off the #1 team and only undefeated team in the nation on their home floor as well...that, o f course, being Lawrence.  Is it a big jump from #11 to #3? Yeah, but they deserved it.  Wittenberg came out of probably the hardest sectional and IWU came out of the 2nd hardest sectional.  Amherst?  They were ranked #4 going into the tourney and made it to the Final Four.  Who has a better case for #4?  Hope?  They lost in the 3rd round to Wittenberg.  Wooster?  They lost in the 2nd round to Transy.  Yeah, both were on the road, but IWU was on the road as well and they won. 

I'm disappointed about the lack of posters joining the Poster's Poll this year.  I certainly hope that more posters join in next year, otherwise, I don't think it's worth Mr. Ypsi's time and efforts.  I would hope closer to 20 than 10 next year.  Thanks again for putting it together and running it.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 22, 2006, 09:09:45 AM

Yeah, I think VWU earned the #1 by beating two really, really good teams on back to back days.  One win of that calibre and a win over a lesser opponent might not have convinced me.

Lawrence and even Puget Sound were impressive, with narrow defeats against the most talented team in the tournament were also impressive.

I had Hope losing in the final, basically because I assumed they'd be playing the sectional at home.  Had I thought Witt would get it, I would have picked them.  Those teams are essentially even in my book.

Amherst got gradually better all year long.  I never thought they would get to the level that they achieved by the final four, but congratulations to them.  Although, if you put Amherst that high, you have to have Tufts in the top ten as well.  Those teams are so even, its not funny.

The final four plus Lawrence and Hope all have rights to those six spots.  The order isn't as big of a concern to me.

UPS, Wooster, Transy, Lincoln, Tufts, Calvin and Augustana would be my next tier, maybe Baldwin-Wallace in there too.

There was just a lot more parity this year than I expected, a lot more than most people thought.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 22, 2006, 02:05:15 PM
I finally got mine done and sent it in - better late than never
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Knightstalker on March 22, 2006, 02:48:51 PM
Sent mine in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on March 22, 2006, 03:58:53 PM
I'll only say this about Hope being a top 4 team........they lost 3 games to 3 teams I voted in the top 12.  One on a last second shot.........one on the road to a team that played lights out basketball......and one on the road in the tournament who finished as National Runner-up and one shot away from Champion. 

Albion was in my opinion better than any team I saw in the tournament outside of Witt, Hope and Calvin........and I think they were pretty even with those 3 teams.


The fact that the D3 tournament is not a nationally seeded tournament allows some leeway in ranking teams ahead of a final four team.


Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 22, 2006, 06:24:51 PM
I've sent mine in as well.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 22, 2006, 07:48:49 PM
With Greg, we're now up to 9 ballots - can we reach (or exceed) 10 by the deadline (just 72 minutes away)?!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: titanfan on March 22, 2006, 09:32:41 PM
Ypsi,

I'm working on mine right now.  Can you give me 20 minutes?!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 22, 2006, 09:38:04 PM
The final Posters' Poll (hopefully only meaning that for THIS year!), revised to include the late ballot from titanfan:

1. Va Wes, 250 (unanimous)
2. Witt, 235 (2-4 - 6 seconds)
3. IWU, 233 (2-3 - 7 thirds)
4. Amherst, 214 (4-6)
5. Larry, 206 (4-7)
6. Hope, 203 (2-12)
7. UPS, 170 (5-14)
8. Lincoln, 165 (6-18)
9. Transy, 163 (5-15)
10. Augie, 162 (7-12)
11. Woo, 156 (7-15)
12. Calvin, 128 (9-16)
13. BW, 124 (8-17)
14. MissC, 118 (9-20)
15. UWW, 92 (8-24)
16. Tufts, 86 (11-22)
17. Stout, 77 (11-24)
18. SJF, 70 (15-21, 2 NV)
19. NCC, 60 (15-25)
20. St Thomas, 59 (14-22, 1NV)
21. WmPat, 58 (7-24, 1NV)
22. Carroll, 57 (13-25, 1NV
23. York, 53 (14-25, 1NV)
24. Albion, 34 (6 voters, hi 12)
25. Widener, 30 (3 voters, hi 12)

26. R-M, 11 (4 voters, hi 19)
27. CMellon, 9 (4 voters, hi 22)
28. Oxy, 8 (2 voters, each 22)
29. Elmhurst, 5 (1 voter)
30. Utica, 4 (1 voter)
t31, Cortland, 3 (1 voter)
t31, LAX, 3 (1 voter)
t31, Farmingdale,3 (2 voters)
t34, ChrisNewport, 1
t34, ONU, 1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 22, 2006, 09:39:39 PM
titanfan,

Didn't catch your message while I was typing up the results - I'll add yours in on a revised posting.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: titanfan on March 22, 2006, 09:42:38 PM
I sent it to your d3hoops inbox.  Let me know if you get it.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 22, 2006, 10:02:52 PM
BTW, in answer to a previous teaser, Widener was the team selected 12th and 13th by two of the first four posters, and completely omitted by the other two.  Of the next 5, 4 omitted them, 1 had them 23rd.  While I would not presume to say you're wrong, you two 'Widener lovers' are certainly in the minority!  (Incidentally, Harvard's library is the Widener - same guy?  And who the heck is he?)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 23, 2006, 12:14:16 AM
Revised poll (10 voters) appears above.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 23, 2006, 02:05:32 AM
Thanks for doing this for us this season, Chuck.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 23, 2006, 07:48:47 AM
Comparing my votes to the Poster's Poll...

I had the top three the same, with Hope 4th, then Amherst and Lawrence.

I'm guilty of voting Wooster the highest at #7.  I also had #13 B-W the highest at 8 and #14 Mississippi College at 9.  I voted William Patterson the lowest at #24.  My #25 pick was between Widener and Randolph-Macon and I chose the latter.

I did initially think my #10 vote for UPS was high, considering they jumped from #19, but apparently not!  Surprised to see Whitewater getting a vote as high as #8 considering they barely got by DePauw and got smoked by IWU.

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 23, 2006, 08:48:43 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 22, 2006, 10:02:52 PM
(Incidentally, Harvard's library is the Widener - same guy?  And who the heck is he?)

Incidently, Harvard has like seven libraries on campus, some of which even their own undergrads can't get into, but yes, I do believe it is the same Widener and I have no idea who he is.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 23, 2006, 09:00:03 AM

Courtesy of Wikipedia:

"Harry Elkins Widener (January 3, 1885 – April 15, 1912) was a book collector from the United States. He died in the sinking of the Titanic.

Widener Library at Harvard University is named for him, as well as Widener University in Chester, PA. Both institutions were named postumously at the bequest of his wife."

Apparently, his widow gave Harvard $3.5 Million in 1915 to build the library.  That's a lot of money now, let alone then.  Curiously the Widener University entry says nothing of its namesake.  The Widener University website mentions the name change only as (recognizing Philadelphia's Widener family).  I suspect they were benefactors at a time when the school was looking to change names from "Pennsylvania Military College."

Check this out:

"According to the fictional Cthulhu mythos of H. P. Lovecraft, Widener Library houses one of the few existing copies of the Necronomicon in the world, hidden somewhere among its endless stacks."
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on March 23, 2006, 09:53:04 AM
I am sorry I didn't have time to do the final one....conference things.

This was fun!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 23, 2006, 11:41:40 PM
After studying 'how they got to the FF', I've made a slight change in the final poll - my ballot has now put IWU 2, Witt 3.  My reasoning:

(Using d3hoops.com final poll):

IWU beat #21 Carroll, #15 UWW (AT UWW), #5 Lawrence (AT LU), and #8 UPS.

Witt (at home all four games) beat Erie (no votes), #12 BW, #6 Hope, and #7 Transy.

The other two had the 'easy' road:

Va Wes (at home all three games) bye, beat (#34) Farmingdale, beat #10 Lincoln, beat #24 WmPat.

Amherst (at home all three games) bye, beat Hamilton (no votes), beat #22 Tufts, beat #16 SJF.

Anyone know if anyone else has ever made the FF by beating four ranked teams on the road?

This doesn't change the final rankings (Witt is still #2), but tightens the margin.  (Which seems appropriate to me - the game I would REALLY like to see [aside from a re-match of IWU-VWC!] is IWU-Witt, which I would say is a toss-up.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 23, 2006, 11:44:53 PM
That's probably more information than any one person needs, no?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 23, 2006, 11:54:06 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 23, 2006, 11:44:53 PM
That's probably more information than any one person needs, no?

There can never be too much information! ;D  (Unfortunately, there is always too much information that just isn't true! >:()

Do you happen to know the answer to the question in there?  Has anyone previously beaten four ranked teams on the road to make the Final Four?  (My hunch is 'no', but stranger things have happened.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 23, 2006, 11:58:24 PM
I'm not going to satisfy your "woe is the Titans, we had such a tough tough road" by doing the research for you on this one.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 24, 2006, 12:25:44 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 23, 2006, 11:58:24 PM
I'm not going to satisfy your "woe is the Titans, we had such a tough tough road" by doing the research for you on this one.

C'mon, Pat - that was NOT my point.  Both Witt and IWU lost (narrowly) to Va Wes; both (narrowly) beat Amherst.  The only reason one is 2 and the other is 3 is the order they played them.  Since I had bent over backwards to NOT be a homer with my initial vote, I decided to try to 'break the tie'.

I didn't expect anyone to actually research the answer; just wondered if you recalled.

I've obviously gotten quite a reputation as a 'homer' (you are the most brutal and frequent critic, but far from the only one), but if you check the posts, that is from my first year of posting, and does not apply lately.  I was not asking a 'poor abused IWU' question, merely a factual question.  Obviously not all roads to the FF are created equal; I merely wondered if any previous team had been always on the road, and always met ranked teams.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 24, 2006, 09:38:12 AM

I checked a few, but you have a few problems with that statement.  There were very few Final Four teams that have even had to play four games since the d3hoops.com Top 25 Poll has been out.

Calvin had to last year, beating (using the final poll) #15 Wheaton, #20 Aurora, ORV Miss Coll, and #5 Albion to get there.  In my opinion, MC should have been ranked.  That one is pretty close.

In 2004 John Carroll had to play four games to get in, but they hosted unranked Calvin in the first round before beating, #14 Wittenberg at Wittenberg, #16 Maryville and #5 Wooster at Wooster.

Also in 2004, eventual champs Stevens Point had to play four games, but they too hosted unranked Benedictine in round one, before beating #23 GAC, #12 Puget Sound and #7 Lawrence.

Even in 2003 when Gustavus Adolphus made the big run, they hosted the first round game against higher seed and #19 Whitworth, before playing #12 Stevens Point, #15 Hanover and #14 Occidental.

No final four team had to play four games in 2002.

In 2001 IWU had to play four games to get in, but they hosted unranked Grinnell in the first game before beating #17 Wartburg, #9 Elmhurst and #6 Chicago.

In 2001, eventual champ Catholic also played four games, but they too hosted the first round win over unranked CCNY before beating #19 Widener, ORV Brockport State and #18 Clark.

In 2000, both Eau-Claire and F & M made the final four by playing four games.  Hosts are not listed for this tournament, but I'm pretty sure both hosted the first round games because their opponents (Concordia, WI and Baruch) were not ranked.  Eau-Clair went on to beat #15 Carthage, #13 Buena Vista and #3 Stevens Point.  F & M beat ORV (#26) Widener, #12 Rowan and #9 Catholic.

So, in conclusion:

GAC is the only Final Four team to beat four ranked teams to get there, but they did get to host as the lower seed in the first round.

I would say that Calvin's run last year was probably equally impressive, beating four very good teams on the road.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 24, 2006, 10:59:58 AM
I realize that we are just talking about the men here, but looking through HF's research just solidifies the amazing run the Hope women made this year.  They won 4 road games to get to the final four.  The rankings of the teams (using the final poll) were (in order):

NR Denison
#13 Capital
#6 Washington U
#5 DePauw

and then in the final four

#3 Scranton
#2 Southern Maine

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 24, 2006, 11:34:42 AM
Hope didn't play Carroll in this year's tournament. It played Denison.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 24, 2006, 01:56:03 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 24, 2006, 11:34:42 AM
Hope didn't play Carroll in this year's tournament. It played Denison.

I knew that didn't sound right when I posted it, but I thought my old mind was playing tricks on me - thanks Pat.  I corrected the post below.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on March 24, 2006, 07:15:35 PM
The 03-04 Pointers have the record for the most miles travelled... and I'm pretty sure it won't be beaten.  Though they hosted Round 1 (Benedictine), yhey travelled to GAC in Round 2 then went to UPS (SS and EE) before heading out East to Salem.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 24, 2006, 08:04:55 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on March 24, 2006, 07:15:35 PM
The 03-04 Pointers have the record for the most miles travelled... and I'm pretty sure it won't be beaten.  Though they hosted Round 1 (Benedictine), yhey travelled to GAC in Round 2 then went to UPS (SS and EE) before heading out East to Salem.

Actually, I'd bet any Texas or West Coast team that has made the FF can top that!  For that matter, I think LU may have topped that the same year (if they had made the final trip to Salem) - didn't they start in Texas before joining you at UPS?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 24, 2006, 10:08:11 PM
I'm not so sure any West Coast or Texas team has made the Final Four.  Too lazy to check it out though.

I think Lawrence beat up on Lakeland the year they went out to Washington and met Point in the Elite 8.

Now that I think about it...I'm pretty sure no team out "west" has made the Final Four.  When Gustavus Adolphus made it, I thought I remember them making a big deal about they being the first team west of the Mississippi to make the Final Four...I could be wrong though.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on March 24, 2006, 10:56:18 PM
Nebraska Wesleyan is not only west of the Mississippi but West of the Missouri River.


Pretty sure they're the furthest West team to make a final four..........also too lazy too look it up. ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: David Collinge on March 24, 2006, 10:57:58 PM
West of the Mississippi River and in the Final Four:
Cal State Stanislaus (1982--4th place)
Nebraska Wesleyan (1985--3rd place; 1986--3rd place; 1988--3rd place; 1997--2nd place)
Gustavus Adolphus (2003--2nd place)

There have been others within a few miles of the River:  LeMoyne Owen, Augustana (Ill.), St. Thomas (MN), Hamline come to mind.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 24, 2006, 11:01:12 PM
What Gustavus was, was a team with a chance to become the first team from west of the Mississippi River to win the title.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 25, 2006, 11:32:12 AM
Since somebody's bound to ask:

Northernmost D3 tourney participant: Whitworth (2003)
Southernmost D3 tourney participant: Trinity TX (6x, 1998-2006)
Easternmost D3 tourney participant: Colby (1994, 1995, 1997)
Westernmost D3 tourney participant: Linfield (2001)

Northernmost F4 team: Hamline (1977)
Southernmost F4 team: LeMoyne-Owen (1975, 1986)
Southernmost F4 team, current D3 member: Virginia Wesleyan (2006)
Easternmost F4 team: Southern Maine (1989)
Westernmost F4 team: CSU-Stanislaus (1982)
Westernmost F4 team, current D3 member: Nebraska Wesleyan (1985, 1986, 1988, 1997)

Northernmost champion: Potsdam State (1981, 1986)
Southernmost champion: LeMoyne-Owen (1975)
Southernmost champion, current D3 member: Virginia Wesleyan (2006)
Easternmost champion: Williams (2003)
Westernmost champion: UW-Stevens Point (2004, 2005)

Stevens Point, WI is slightly west of Bloomington, IL (which is slightly west of Whitewater, WI) but it's a tad south of Potsdam, NY. And McMinnville, OR is slightly west of both Portland, OR and Tacoma, WA. St. Paul, MN is just a bit north of Eau Claire, WI; Stevens Point, WI; Potsdam, NY; and Plattsburgh, NY, and Gorham, ME is surprisingly well south of all five. They don't call it "the University of Southern Maine" for nothing. And you'd be surprised at how far north Spokane, WA really is.

I might be the first person to ever use the USGS site's GNIS plotter for basketball purposes.  ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: diehardfan on March 25, 2006, 02:38:33 PM
oops... and I was actually going to do ranking for the final...  :-\

oh, to be less busy  ::)

if I decide to make one now, can my vote be added in chuck?  :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on March 25, 2006, 02:50:11 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 24, 2006, 08:04:55 PM
Actually, I'd bet any Texas or West Coast team that has made the FF can top that!

If you think of total miles, then I'm not so sure... I guess it all depends on where the first/second round games and where the FF is.

Point went to and from GAC, to and from UPS, and to Salem.  UPS, that same year, would have just had the distance to Salem (which I imagine would probably be less than UPS to UWSP to Salem, the path the 03-04 Pointers took).

Now, if UPS went to Cali (and back) for the second round, then Wisconsin and back in the SS/EE, then to Salem, then this would obviously be more.  I guess I just assumed that this wouldn't ever happen!  :D jk
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 25, 2006, 03:25:43 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on March 25, 2006, 02:38:33 PM
oops... and I was actually going to do ranking for the final...  :-\

oh, to be less busy  ::)

if I decide to make one now, can my vote be added in chuck?  :D

Sure, why not! ;D

It's not like the PP is going to be archived for future debates!  It's just for discussion until the next 'real' poll.  Invitation is extended to others as well - you send 'em, I'll include 'em.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 25, 2006, 07:28:36 PM
From what Ralph usually says, any south team in Texas has a "close to 500 mile bus trip" anywhere for their, for example, opening round game.  That winner goes to NWC team for second round game and then goes to the midwest for the sectional...that would qualify that team as traveling the most, I would think.


Greg,

Nice work!  I have to look at a map again because some of those "this is more south/north/east/west places sound odd, though I don't doubt you!


Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 26, 2006, 10:02:30 PM
Since this is now kind of de facto my home board - ;)-, a question that I already posted on the final four board, but don't really know where it fits:

George Mason earlier this evening became the first d1 team in 20 years to be a double-digit seed in the final four (and since the previous team was LSU, they are the first EVER 'mid-major' team to do it).  Also, this is the first time since d1 went to 64 teams that NO #1 seed made the FF.

Questions (since d3 doesn't officially seed, so this would be devilishly hard to research):

Has the d3 tourny FF ever had the equivalent of a double digit seed (whether or not from a 'mid-major')?

Has the d3 tourny FF ever lacked a #1 seed?

Since the d3 tourny doesn't officially seed, these are obviously judgment calls, but I welcome any feedback.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on March 26, 2006, 10:24:39 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 26, 2006, 10:02:30 PM
Has the d3 tourny FF ever lacked a #1 seed?

Like you said, because D3 doesn't seed, this will be very tough... but I'd say it will be equally as (or possibly even more) tough because the "logical" #1 seeds are not pronounced as such.  For example, in 04-05, UWSP was the defending National Champ and the subjective #1 team in the country.  If it had been seeded like the D-1 tourney, they would have been the overall #1 seed... but instead, Point was probably the #3 team in the West/Midwest Regional (http://www.d3hoops.com/salem/05/preview.htm).


West Regional
No. 10 Blackburn at No. 5 Hanover, winner plays at No. 2 Illinois Wesleyan
No. 12 Texas-Dallas at No. 4 Trinity (Texas), winner vs. No. 9 Pomona-Pitzer, site based on seeding
No. 8 Lawrence at No. 7 Gustavus Adolphus, winner at No. 3 UW-Stevens Point


Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 27, 2006, 10:31:17 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 26, 2006, 10:02:30 PM
George Mason earlier this evening became the first d1 team in 20 years to be a double-digit seed in the final four (and since the previous team was LSU, they are the first EVER 'mid-major' team to do it).  Also, this is the first time since d1 went to 64 teams that NO #1 seed made the FF.

By the way, Larry Bird's Indiana State team was a mid-major, even though they were a #1 seed.  Just FYI.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 27, 2006, 01:07:41 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 27, 2006, 10:31:17 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 26, 2006, 10:02:30 PM
George Mason earlier this evening became the first d1 team in 20 years to be a double-digit seed in the final four (and since the previous team was LSU, they are the first EVER 'mid-major' team to do it).  Also, this is the first time since d1 went to 64 teams that NO #1 seed made the FF.

By the way, Larry Bird's Indiana State team was a mid-major, even though they were a #1 seed.  Just FYI.

True, and Penn also was in the FF that year (but I don't recall where they were seeded.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 27, 2006, 04:13:51 PM

I'm pretty sure Penn was an eight in '79.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 27, 2006, 05:44:35 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 27, 2006, 04:13:51 PM

I'm pretty sure Penn was an eight in '79.

Just ran across it in a George Mason story - they were a nine.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 28, 2006, 09:03:13 AM
So I gotta believe that the majority of true DIII fans are major supporters of George Mason at this point.  Sure, they have scholarship players and all, but in the eyes of the the big DI shcools, they're a little nothing school (like the way they see DIII).  Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 28, 2006, 09:58:50 AM

Well, at 35,000 students, they are the largest public university in Virginia.  So they really just stink at sports, but yes, you would have to be nuts not rooting for an LSU-GMU final.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Knightstalker on March 28, 2006, 11:34:03 AM
They may be the largest but they are also mainly a commuter school, at least from what I have heard anyway.  I like seeing UCLA in the final four though.  It brings back childhood memories.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 28, 2006, 12:15:09 PM
Especially if Coach Wooden makes the trip to Indianapolis.  He was at the regional with Bill Walton for the Gonzaga game.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 28, 2006, 08:42:01 PM
Quote from: knightstalker on March 28, 2006, 11:34:03 AM
They may be the largest but they are also mainly a commuter school, at least from what I have heard anyway.

Exactly -- and most commuter schools, no matter how large, don't tend to excel in sports. Nor do they tend to draw well; I haven't looked at the GMU website, but I read somewhere online that the Patriots only draw between 4,000-5,000 fans per game.

Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 28, 2006, 12:15:09 PM
Especially if Coach Wooden makes the trip to Indianapolis.  He was at the regional with Bill Walton for the Gonzaga game.

The biggest downside to UCLA making the Final Four is that it means more opportunities for the media to stick microphones in front of Bill Walton.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 28, 2006, 08:53:36 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 28, 2006, 08:42:01 PM
The biggest downside to UCLA making the Final Four is that it means more opportunities for the media to stick microphones in front of Bill Walton.

Couldn't agree with you more.  He, Vitale and Madden couldn't annoy me more.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on March 28, 2006, 11:18:15 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 28, 2006, 08:42:01 PM
The biggest downside to UCLA making the Final Four is that it means more opportunities for the media to stick microphones in front of Bill Walton.

You mean you don't like hearing quotes like "That's the worst shot in franchise history" and "That's the worst pass in the history of Western Civilization..."

My only question is this... when did Bill Walton become an expert historian?  And what on earth does this have to do with basketball?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 29, 2006, 01:01:34 AM
My thing about Walton -- and I freely admit that this is strictly a visceral reaction on my part -- is that he has always struck me as someone who is profoundly in love with the sound of his own voice.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on March 29, 2006, 02:58:52 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 29, 2006, 01:01:34 AM
My thing about Walton -- and I freely admit that this is strictly a visceral reaction on my part -- is that he has always struck me as someone who is profoundly in love with the sound of his own voice.

That sounds about right... this tends to be the case with many (all?) of the self-proclaimed "expert" announcers... 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Knightstalker on March 29, 2006, 07:41:26 AM
Walton is ok when he actually talks basketball and leaves the opinion out of it.  He also does tell some funny Wooden stories at times.  Of course the UCLA teams that he played on are maybe the best college basketball team I have ever seen.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 29, 2006, 09:03:24 AM
Bill Walton is by far my favorite basketball color man, although the team of Rafftery and Verne Lundquist this March has been awesome.  Do you think there's any chance they do the final four?

I guess I am the wierd one on Walton though, because I hate Dick Vitale; I even told him so on night at the Carrier Dome after Syracuse beat UCONN.  Walton is just fun to listen to.  He's nuts and he once let Jerry Garcia live naked in a teepee behind his house.  I love the hyperbole and the anti-establishment bent.  We need more Walton!!

I don't care that he never talks about the game; I know basketball, I don't need some windbag talking about the game.  I'm watching the game.  I want to be entertained while I'm doing it.  It's the same reason that Dennis Miller was the best voice for MNF during my lifetime.

One of the networks is airing an NBA game without any announcers this season to test it out.  To me that's better than what we have now, but even better than that would be a color guy (to throw a few stats in here or there) and a comedian making fun of the crowd, coaches and players a la Mystery Science Theatre 3000.  That's the way to watch a basketball game (if you can't be there in person, anyway).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 29, 2006, 11:08:59 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 29, 2006, 09:03:24 AM
Bill Walton is by far my favorite basketball color man, although the team of Rafftery and Verne Lundquist this March has been awesome.  Do you think there's any chance they do the final four?

Verne Lundquist -- Texas Lutheran grad!  Another D3 prodigy! D3 was not created for another decade after his graduation, but institutions which have moved to the D3 model pull their famous alums with them! ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 29, 2006, 11:15:47 AM

Verne Lundquist is a national treasure.  When I ran across the figure skating coverage at the olympics this year, I was wondering how I ever thought it was bearable, but then I remembered that CBS used to do the Winter Games and Verne did the figure skating.  He can make anything bearable.  I didn't get any of his first round games in the tourney this year and was worried he had retired.

I really like the pairing with Raftery; they are very, very enjoyable.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 29, 2006, 01:01:58 PM
As opposed to many national-level broadcasters, any sporting event that is being broadcasted by Verne Lundquist can be summed up this way.

"It is about the _____________ (insert the event).  It is not about Verne!"

I think that I enjoy Verne doing the Masters most.

Just once, I would like for Verne to do the Stagg Bowl. :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 29, 2006, 01:19:08 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 29, 2006, 01:01:58 PM
"It is about the _____________ (insert the event).  It is not about Verne!"


Here, here, Ralph.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 30, 2006, 10:14:32 PM
My heart says GM (for obvious 'underdog' reasons) and LSU (for 'above-and-beyond' response to Katrina, and a morale boost for all of Louisiana), but, alas, my head says Florida and UCLA.

Go Heart! :o
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 31, 2006, 09:10:22 AM

UCLA is not good enough.  Ben Howland is a miracle worker, but getting to the final four is hitting the ceiling for this team.  Give them another year.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 01, 2006, 09:00:00 PM
Well, heart lost the first one - I think Florida will probably take the title, regardless of the second game.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 01, 2006, 09:50:08 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 31, 2006, 09:10:22 AM

UCLA is not good enough.  Ben Howland is a miracle worker, but getting to the final four is hitting the ceiling for this team.  Give them another year.

UCLA is up 39-24 at the break.  Ouch.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 01, 2006, 10:41:40 PM
With 10 to go, UCLA is up by 24.  They have been SO dominant, that I am no longer confident about my Florida pick.  Should be a heckuva final. 

[Head 2, Heart 0 - dammit!]
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 02, 2006, 07:01:18 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on April 01, 2006, 10:41:40 PM
[Head 2, Heart 0 - dammit!]

If you're a betting man, they usually bet with their heads and not their hearts, at least you have that going for you.  ;)  I had UConn, Texas, Pitt and BC, with UConn beating Texas.  Oops.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on April 02, 2006, 08:24:22 AM
Okay - after last night (especially the second game) I think it's way past time for Billy Packer to give it up. 

6 minutes left in the alphabet game (LSU vs UCLA) and he's talking about UCLA is paying the best game of the tournament?? 

Sure, they were up 57-34, but they had only scored 7 points in the last 9 minutes.  The funniest part was that just as he said that, they flash the turnover stats (LSU - 15  UCLA - 17).  It was almost as if the guys "in the truck" were trying to prove him wrong.   Not so sure the coach would agree that was all that great of a game.  Granted, the game was boring, especially  in the second half, but come on.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: hope1 on April 02, 2006, 09:29:10 AM
my  wife picked florida  to win it all
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on April 03, 2006, 03:59:21 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on April 02, 2006, 08:24:22 AM
.  Granted, the game was boring, especially  in the second half, but come on.

I turned it off at halfime. :-\
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 06, 2006, 11:03:59 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on April 02, 2006, 08:24:22 AM
Okay - after last night (especially the second game) I think it's way past time for Billy Packer to give it up. 


Has Billy Packer ever been good?  I mean the Nantz-Packer combo must have pictures of Les Moonves in a very compromising position in order to remain the #1 broadcasting team.  There were 16 broadcast teams in the first round and I'd say nearly half of them could have done a better job with the Final Four.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 23, 2006, 11:57:00 PM
ANNOUNCING: THE 2006-07 POSTERS' POLL!!!!

This may seem a strange time to announce (with the boards virtually emptied), but the absence of much bball action is also a good time to figure out who deserves to be on your radar.

The procedure will be unchanged from what evolved last year - each poll reflects games thru Sunday, with picks due by 8 pm (EST) on Monday.

The first poll will be for games thru January 7; picks due January 8.

I hope that all 12 pickers from last year will return, and we'd love to be joined by some newcomers who follow d3 NATIONALLY (this certainly means YOU, DC and DHF, plus any others who go beyond just their own conference/region).

As before, I retain the right to ignore ballots that are obviously 'home-cookin' (though I have never exercised that right - it would occur only if your have 6 of the top 10 from your [mediocre] conference, or CalTech ranked #1). 

But PLEASE doublecheck your ballot to be sure you haven't ACCIDENTALLY omitted a team you meant to rank - last year I 'checked' on about a dozen ballots (it is NOT going to happen if you leave off a team other posters think is about 22; but if you leave off a team everyone else ranks in the top 10...), and for those who got back to me in time, MOST admitted it was an error.  When necessary, I'll still check, but I won't be happy! :P

If we suddenly blossom to 100 pollsters, I might resign!  But I'd love to get up to 20-25 pollsters.

Poll selections may be sent to cabonney@netscape.net, but using the PM service (to Mr. Ypsi) is preferrred.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 24, 2006, 12:37:05 AM
Thanks for the invitaiton, Mr Ypsi!

I'm in!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on December 24, 2006, 01:05:01 AM
<---- IN
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 24, 2006, 01:23:51 AM
You know me, I'm willing to show how little I know! ???
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 25, 2006, 05:11:59 PM

I'm in.  Can't wait to be vindicated once again for leaving a consensus top 10 team off my ballot only to have them lose mightily down the stretch.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 26, 2006, 10:47:33 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on December 25, 2006, 05:11:59 PM

I'm in.  Can't wait to be vindicated once again for leaving a consensus top 10 team off my ballot only to have them lose mightily down the stretch.

Careful, Hoops, these things can go in cycles.  This year you'll probably never cast a vote all season for the eventual national champion! ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on December 27, 2006, 09:32:03 AM
I'm in!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 27, 2006, 09:33:51 PM
I'm in too!!!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 28, 2006, 03:18:58 AM
<--- also in
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 05, 2007, 11:03:39 PM
Reminder to all that this year's first Posters' Poll entries are due by 8pm Mon (EST), for games through Sunday, the 7th.  Saturday looks like it could be a real shake-up day, and Sunday has more games of likely interest than usual, so we may not be able to pick on Sat then tweak on Sun!  (Though I suspect the top 15-20 will already be set by Saturday night.)

I hope that all 12 who participated last year will join in again (most have already responded that they will), and we're certainly open to new pollsters.  If you, or some poster you know is a follower of d3 on a national level, please join us and pass the word!

Poll picks may be submitted to cabonney@netscape.net, but the preferred route is the PM feature on this site (send to Mr. Ypsi).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 07, 2007, 09:44:24 PM
Three ballots received so far, and not nearly AS chaotic as I anticipated.  22 schools were named on all three ballots (sometimes very close, sometimes not); of course, the other 9 possible picks received 7 different names!

My 'homer' rep lies in tatters (RIP! ;D).  Neither of the other pickers was from the CCIW, but one named 6 teams, one five, I had four; furthermore, both of them listed IWU, I did not! :o
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 07, 2007, 11:04:51 PM
I think that your poll will be quite instructive as to what the country is thinking in the middle.  I will bet that the top is relatively stable with its own range of rankings.

It is the mid range of the poll that interests me.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 08, 2007, 10:33:02 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 08, 2007, 10:32:05 AM
Top 25 this week:

1.   UWSP - beat Superior and Stout, both by big margins.
2.   ONU - beat MUskingum, lost to Capital
3.   Amherst - beat Babson and Williams easily
4.   Wooster - beat Denison
5.   St. Thomas - barely beat Carlton and Bethel (2OT)
6.   Whitworth - beat Linfield, UC-Santa Cruz and George Fox, all pretty easily
7.   Wittenberg - took out Kenyon (OT) and Oberlin
8.   VA Wesleyan - beat Methodist, E&H and Guilford
9.   WPU - beat Tufts, lost to Manhattanville
10. MS College - beat Sul Ros State and Howard Payne both on the road
11. Averett - lost to Guilford, loss to Stockton, loss to Hobart
12. Augustana - beat North Park, lost to Elmhurst
13. UPS - beat Pac Lutheran, lost to Pacific
14. Hope - beat Kalamazoo and Olivet
15. Bates - beat Elms and Union easily
16. Wheaton - beat Baruch, lost to NCC
17. Carthage - beat Northland, lost to IWU
18. Oshkosh - beat Platteville, Grinnell and Eau Claire
19. Hopkins - beat Washington College
20. NYU - lost to Mellon, beat Rochester
21. Lawrence - lost at Ripon
22. TX-Dallas - lost at Hardin-Simmons, lost at McMurry
23. Brandies - lost at Rochester, lost at Mellon
24. WASHU - beat Webster and Chicago
25. LaCrosse - beat Stout
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 08, 2007, 10:36:36 AM

this poll is so hard to do.  I can't find more than 5 or 6 teams who deserve to be in the top ten.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 08, 2007, 12:25:53 PM

Ok.  I've got my top ten done.  I voted four teams in a tie for 7th place, but it's done.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 08, 2007, 12:47:52 PM

Ballot's away.  I'm not sure I like it, but it's away.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 08, 2007, 12:59:29 PM
I consider it a starting off point.  I actually found the last 10 or so spots pretty hard to fill and even harder to put in any order that made sense. :-\

There does seem to be a lack of outstanding teams at this point, or least those that have been tested. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 08, 2007, 01:23:59 PM
Mine's in. God help us all...
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 08, 2007, 02:28:41 PM
Quote from: sac on January 08, 2007, 12:59:29 PM
There does seem to be a lack of outstanding teams at this point, or least those that have been tested

Exactly.  None of the three undefeated have a 'signature' win (Whitworth has Wheaton, Bates has nobody, Amherst looked like they had it with Brandeis, until they went 0-for-the-weekend, and Williams normally would be but they are 6-6).  That applies also to a lot of the one and two loss teams.

Maybe it has always been this way, but it seems more so this year.  I wrestled with EVERY spot from 2-25 (and beyond).

Last night I posted that the first three ballots indicated a lot less chaos than I expected; the next three have made up for it!  There are now only 16 teams named on all 6 ballots, and 39 teams have been named at least once.  I eagerly await the next three (six? more?) ballots to either clarify the situation or make me bone up on 'chaos theory'!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 08, 2007, 02:38:06 PM

Sorry to screw it up for you Ypsi, but I tried to do it totally on my own without using the d3hoops.com poll as a reference.  I don't even know how much I deviated, but I'm guessing it was a lot.



Brandeis is just frustrating me.  They've had this talented team for three years know that has done progressively better and better in the non-conference only to get mauled when they go on the road for UAA games.  I still think they are among the two or three best teams in the UAA, but they just refuse to prove it.  I sure hope the rebound; they are a fun squad to watch.  (By the way, despite all the love, they did not get a vote from me this week.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 08, 2007, 07:14:21 PM
We're now up to nine ballots, with less than an hour 'til the polls close.  Come on stalker, titanfan, formerbant, and any others - we can DO it!

Because of rumors I hear about some silly football game tonight, I may hold the polls open longer; let's go for the biggest poll yet (current record is 12).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 09, 2007, 12:18:45 AM
Due to the Florida-Ohio State "game", and since the official d3hoops.com poll has not yet been released, the Posters' Poll balloting will remain open through mid-afternoon tomorrow (well, now today!).  I'm too tired to type it up now anyway, and still holding out hope for a few more ballots.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 09, 2007, 09:44:16 AM
Well, I checked my ballot with the official "Top 25".  I have my Top 21 in the poll and 23 of 25 overall.  I even mentioned to Mr Ypsi, that those other 2 were on my radar screen, so I didn't overlook them.

I feel better about my ballot, which I sent in Sunday afternoon.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 09, 2007, 10:00:17 AM

I had 6 teams on my poll that did not appear in the Top 25 although four of the six were in the last four spots.  Also Aurora and Carthage were my "26 and 27," so I too feel pretty good about my poll.

The one screwy element is that I refuse to vote for Hope until they prove they can actually beat a halfway competitive team.

I also gave some points to Mary-Hardin Baylor and was quite surprised to see they got shut out in the real poll.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 09, 2007, 11:30:12 AM
I feel good about my ballot as well, with 21 of my 25 in the top 25. I have probably downgraded St. Thomas more than most - but I didn't like their Massey rating.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 09, 2007, 01:48:41 PM
FIRST POSTERS' POLL OF 2007:

(Only 9 voters - let's try for 12-15 next week!)

1.  UWSP 225 (unanimous #1)
2.  Amherst 204 (2-7)
3.  Wooster 200 (2-7)
4.  Whitworth 193 (4-7)
5.  ONU 179.5 (2-8)
t6. St. Thomas 174 (3-16)
t6. Miss Col 174 (2-10)
8.  Va Wesleyan 171 (4-8)
9.  Wittenberg 166.5 (3-12)
10. UW-Osh 133.5 (t7-14)
11. Wm Patterson 118 (9-19)
12. Elmhurst 116.5 (t7-21)
13. Hope 116 (9-16, 1NV)
14. Bates 104 (11-17, 1NV)
15. Augie 98 (11-19)
16. WashU 95 (13-20)
17. Puget Sound 75 (14-23)
18. Johns Hopkins 58 (13-24, 2NV)
19. UW-LaX 56 (14-23, 1NV)
20. Wheaton 50 (15-24, 2NV)
21. Carthage 45 (17-25, 1NV)
22. NYU 35 (18-25, 2NV)
23. Aurora 25 (17-25, 2NV)
24. Guilford 16 (3 votes: 19-22)
t25. Occidental 15 (4 votes: 20-24)
t25. Brockport 15 (2 votes: 17,20)

t27. WPI 8 (3 votes: 21-25)
t27. MHB 8 (1 vote)
t29. Rutgers-Newark 7 (1 vote)
t29. Lawrence 7 (2 votes: 22,23)
31.  IWU 6 (2 votes: 22,24)
t32. Averett 5 (2 votes: 22,25)
t32. NCC 5 (1 vote)
t34. SJF 4 (1 vote)
t34. BW 4 (1 vote)
t34. RIC 4 (2 votes: 23,25)
t34. Manhattanville (1 vote)
38.  Ripon 2 (1 vote)
t39. Bluffton 1
t39. UT-Dallas 1
t39. UW-Whitewater 1

NOTE: numbers in parens are range of picks; NV = not voted for.

NOTE: the .5 tallies occurred because I allowed Hoops Fan (I never rat-out voters, but he already confessed on the board!) to 'wimp-out' and list 4 teams as tied for 7th.  I was quite sympathetic to the problem and let it go THIS TIME, but no more ties accepted.  Try this approach: both teams full strength, neutral court, and Mr. Ypsi is holding a gun to your head saying "Bet!" ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 09, 2007, 01:54:11 PM
Unless someone types faster than me, I'll take 'compiler's prerogative' to make the first comment.

Amherst received 5 of the 2nd place votes (and 1 3rd), but barely held on to 2nd place overall.  Three of us (myself included) are just not yet sold that they've proven anything, and voted them between 5th and 7th.  I thought Brandeis was finally their proof, until Brandeis went 0-for-the-weekend.  Williams would USUALLY be a 'signature win', but they are only 6-6 this year.  IF Amherst is still undefeated by the end of this weekend (@Tufts, @Bates), I (at least) will finally be convinced.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 09, 2007, 03:46:45 PM
I gave ten teams their highest vote and seven teams their lowest vote (although UWSP falls into both categories as do the three teams who were only given votes by me).  Not included are the ranked teams I didn't vote for at all (like Hope...and three others).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 09, 2007, 04:51:52 PM
I think the only difference I had was Whitewater at 25, instead of Oxy.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 09, 2007, 07:01:56 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 09, 2007, 10:00:17 AM
The one screwy element is that I refuse to vote for Hope until they prove they can actually beat a halfway competitive team.

Calvin sits at 7-5, Hope beat them by 22 at Calvin...........they're a little more than halfway competitive. ;D :D ;)

.........and you could say the same for half of the top 25, my own eyeballs and years of watching D3 tell me Hope is comfortably in the top 25.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 10, 2007, 12:05:00 AM
Hoops Fan - you may be the dictionary definition of 'outlier'  ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 10, 2007, 12:27:56 AM
Quote from: smedindy on January 10, 2007, 12:05:00 AM
Hoops Fan - you may be the dictionary definition of 'outlier'  ;D

Actually, he is (unwittingly) exaggerating his maverick status - besides what he mentioned, some of his other tops and bottoms were ties.  Though he is the only voter with three teams nobody else mentioned (several of us had two).

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 10, 2007, 12:34:35 AM
I reveiwed my ballot tonight.  I had 23 of the 25 on Pat's Top 25.  Of those 23, I had agreement with 6.  I had adjacent flips of 3 pairs of teams, e.g., my 18/17, his 17/18.  I had a concurring triad at his 12, 13 and 14 with my 14, 12 and 13.

For me, the biggest question is the NESCAC.  Fortunately, we get Amherst at Bates this weekend.

Thanks, Mr Ypsi.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 10, 2007, 02:23:36 AM
Interesting. Thanks for running the poll again this year, Chuck.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 10, 2007, 08:51:00 AM
Quote from: smedindy on January 10, 2007, 12:05:00 AM
Hoops Fan - you may be the dictionary definition of 'outlier'


I'm just coming at you with a fresh perspective and The Man can't handle it.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 10, 2007, 10:00:34 AM
Hah! I can't handle it? Ah, you remember some of my wacky choices last year? AND remember I picked CalTech to be Dubuque! I was just ahead of my time!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 10, 2007, 10:12:47 AM

I'm not sure what it says about you or the world that you immediately took upon yourself the mantle of "The Man?"
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 10, 2007, 11:20:50 AM
I love you too!  :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 14, 2007, 02:20:47 PM
Mine's In!  ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 14, 2007, 02:24:59 PM
Not much action today that pollsters are likely to find relevant.  The only result not yet on scoreboard that someone might find of interest is UChi.

Finally, selections done at leisure! :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 14, 2007, 03:48:57 PM
Cabs, when are this week's picks due (and/or through which date?)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 14, 2007, 04:11:17 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on January 14, 2007, 03:48:57 PM
Cabs, when are this week's picks due (and/or through which date?)

Same as usual - through Sunday's games, due Monday by 8pm EST or whenever REAL poll is released, whichever is later.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: formerbant10 on January 14, 2007, 11:52:19 PM
Just sent mine in
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 15, 2007, 11:47:59 AM

Our wonderful IT department deleted by network profile today while trying to fix a small problem.  So I've lost a bunch of crap on my computer, including some pretty important stuff, so it may take me a little longer to get everything together today.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 15, 2007, 12:03:19 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 15, 2007, 11:47:59 AM

Our wonderful IT department deleted by network profile today while trying to fix a small problem.  So I've lost a bunch of crap on my computer, including some pretty important stuff, so it may take me a little longer to get everything together today.

Ouch!!

If necessary I'll hold the poll open an extra couple of hours.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 15, 2007, 01:15:12 PM

Ysi,


Any way you can send me my poll from last week?  I lost it.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 15, 2007, 01:54:39 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 15, 2007, 01:15:12 PM

Ysi,


Any way you can send me my poll from last week?  I lost it.

Just PMed it - let me know if you don't get it.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 15, 2007, 02:02:25 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 15, 2007, 01:54:39 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 15, 2007, 01:15:12 PM

Ysi,


Any way you can send me my poll from last week?  I lost it.

Just PMed it - let me know if you don't get it.

Thanks.  I'm getting close to back on track.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 15, 2007, 02:18:56 PM
I'm in, and my last few were all shook up....
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 15, 2007, 02:42:32 PM

I had a lot of trouble with the bottom, but I'm getting a more solid feel to the top 15.


It's just getting very hard.  We need a few more conference games so we know exactly how everyone is playing.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 15, 2007, 03:32:59 PM
I've so far tallied six ballots (Ralph, formerbant, smedindy, HF, sac, and my own) - keep 'em comin'!

An alert, just in case - we are now getting that ice storm that socked so many earlier.  While there are no MAJOR problems yet, if there is no poll this evening, you'll know I've lost power!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 15, 2007, 03:59:53 PM
Mine's in the mail.  :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 15, 2007, 04:54:00 PM
I just gave mine to Nanook - he and his sled dog team should be there in about 4 hours
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 15, 2007, 05:05:32 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on January 15, 2007, 04:54:00 PM
I just gave mine to Nanook - he and his sled dog team should be there in about 4 hours

What are you doing in Presque-Isle?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 15, 2007, 06:34:07 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on January 15, 2007, 04:54:00 PM
I just gave mine to Nanook - he and his sled dog team should be there in about 4 hours

Quite a team ol' Nanook has - I've already tallied your ballot!

Just a minor complaint: I realize such a long, fast trip arouses hunger, but did they have to eat my cats AND my dog?! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 15, 2007, 08:09:07 PM
I've tallied 8; still hoping to hear from PS, GS, KS, and titanfan (is he still around?).

Others are also welcome, but no new voters after this week to maintain some stability in the polling.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 15, 2007, 09:02:36 PM
In
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 15, 2007, 10:00:54 PM
And tallied!  Since the real poll has not yet been released, there is still time for you slackers! :P
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 15, 2007, 10:02:18 PM
It's been released.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 15, 2007, 10:04:09 PM
I stand corrected.  PP up as soon as I can enter it - there are currently two sets of ties that I was hoping someone would break!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 15, 2007, 10:35:38 PM
POSTERS' POLL, through games of 1-14-07:

1.  UWSP 224 [8] (1-2)
2.  Amherst 214 [1] (1-4)
3.  Wooster 200 (2-8)
t4. Va Wes 182 (3-11)
t4. St. Thomas 182 (3-17)
6.  Miss Col 177 (3-9)
t7. Elmhurst 170 (4-10)
t7. Witt 170 (5-10)
9.  Whitworth 140 (6-14)
10. Augie 134 (7-15)
11. WashU 133 (9-14)
12. Hope 132 (5-14, 1NV)
13. ONU 126 (10-15)
14. Puget Sound 114 (8-20)
15. UWOsh 94 (10-21)
16. UWLaX 89 (13-22)
17. Aurora 69 (16-23)
18. Oxy 62 (17-24, 1NV)
19. WPI 49 (17-25, 1NV)
20. RIC 40 (13-22, 3NV)
21. Guilford 37 (15-25)
22. Johns Hopkins 31 (17-25, 3NV)
23. Bates 28 (18-24, 3NV)
24. Wheaton 27 (16-24, 3NV)
25. Keene St. 15 (3 voters: 19-24)

26. Willy Pat 14 (5 voters: 20-25)
27. MHB 13 (1 voter, but he REALLY liked 'em!)
t28 Carthage 10 (3 voters: 20-25)
t28 NYU 10 (2 voters: 18,24)
30. Trinity, CT 8 (2 voters: 21,23)
t31 Chicago 7 (2 voters: 20,25)
t31 Brockport 7 (1 voter)
33. Rochester 6 (2 voters: 22,24)
34. Brandeis 5 (1 voter)
35. SJF 3 (1 voter)
36. Scranton 1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 15, 2007, 10:44:45 PM
Thanks for the hard work Mr Y.

someone really doesn't like St. Thomas  :D ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 15, 2007, 10:51:57 PM
Or Hope - if he had voted them the average of the other pollsters, they'd have finished 9th.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: kiltedbryan on January 15, 2007, 10:56:04 PM
Quote from: sac on January 15, 2007, 10:44:45 PM
Thanks for the hard work Mr Y.

someone really doesn't like St. Thomas  :D ;)

Or Hope, with the one No Vote.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 15, 2007, 11:02:54 PM
Well a certain alumnus moved 3 MW teams ahead of them this week (rightfully so imo) so Hope actually dropped 2 spots on my ballot.

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 15, 2007, 11:24:08 PM
As for UMHB, I am still reluctant to toot the ASC horn,
because Miss College will probably be seeded to the Great Lakes Sectional,
requiring the only plane flight in that sectional,
which means they are 600 miles away, with only a handful of fans.
And Mississippi College will spot those teams 30 lbs per player,
and the refs will permit a more physical brand of play,
and MC will be unaccustomed to that much "physicality",
and will not adapt well,
and will get into foul trouble
because they don't know how to play physical Great Lakes ball legally,
and then will lose early in the playoffs,
and people will say that they don't play defense.  :-\

The ASC West race will sprint now.  I can see UMHB winning their next 10 games with a little luck and maybe a hiccup at HPU or if Concordia-Austin gets hot on one of those 2 nights.  (CUA won at D-2 Incarnate Word and lost at D2 Abilene Christian by 2 points.)  UMHB travels to  McMurry and Hardin-Simmons in the last weekend of division play.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 15, 2007, 11:44:34 PM
I hit 23 of 25 and the top 19 on both Mr Ypsi's and Pat's poll.  Giving myself the benefit of the doubt on ties on Mr Ypsi's, I hit 8 places, and had 2 adjacent diads.  As for JHU, I think that their cachet and savoir faire are carrying them.  In their tourney, they barely edged past an 11-2 Rowan which only beat McMurry by 2.  They get blown away by Miss College by 24 on a neutral floor (Westmont).  That is my framework for analysis.  Should we be considering the Profs instead of Willy Pat?  IMHO, Rowan is either underrated, or I need to be voting UMHB into the Top 20.  UMHB hosts Concordia-Austin tomorrow night.

If the conventional wisdom is that the CCIW/WIAC/OAC/NCAC axis is where the strength is, then it is not at JHU.  Maybe I need to drop Carthage.  Fortunately, we get another week of CCIW ball to help sort things out.

Thanks, Mr Ypsi for the poll. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 16, 2007, 12:03:37 AM
Honestly, I think the Hope axe to grind is a bit silly...
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 16, 2007, 12:21:01 AM
Sorry I didn't get mine in, Chuck. Monday 8 pm is a little difficult for me, unless I send in the ballot a day early on Sunday night. My home computer's being fixed, and since it was MLK Day today the public libraries were closed and I thus couldn't use any of their computers, either.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 16, 2007, 12:29:33 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 16, 2007, 12:21:01 AM
Sorry I didn't get mine in, Chuck. Monday 8 pm is a little difficult for me, unless I send in the ballot a day early on Sunday night. My home computer's being fixed, and since it was MLK Day today the public libraries were closed and I thus couldn't use any of their computers, either.

Several voters have sent theirs in on Sunday (this week especially, since there were so few relevant games on Sunday).  You would have wielded such power, with two pairs of ties, and the virtual tie from 10th thru 12th! :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 16, 2007, 09:11:07 AM

Since I'm the oddball (although there was only one school I was the only one voting for this week), I'll make a few statements.


I judge these teams, basically, on who they've beaten, who they've lost to and how difficult their schedule is.  Hope just hasn't proven anything to me yet.  I assume they will factor in as other teams falter in conference (I don't expect Hope to lose much if any in conference play).  I'm just not big on giving them votes solely on reputation.


On the other hand, Mary Hardin Baylor seems to be having a very good season with a strong team.  I don't think they are in MC territory in terms of talent and they aren't from a traditional power area of the country.  They are probably a little high this week on the ballot, but so many teams around them had awful showings.  I think it will correct itself a little this week, especially as they hit the road in upcoming games.

Finally, I'm just not sold on St. Thomas right now.  They took off like gangbusters at the beginning of the year, but since Ike got back from the injury they've been dreadful.  Sure they've been winning games, but they haven't been playing like a top ten team and I can't, in good conscience, put them there.

I also didn't vote for WPI.  I don't think they are competitive nationally, although they could be by tournament time if they get it together.  RIC was my last team off, just because I'd like to see them get through their conference schedule first (they have a rep of dropping easy conference games).  Keene State, on the other hand, is a very good team.  I have yet to vote for Hopkins; I've never been a believer.  I also threw Chicago and Rochester in there, but I didn't really know what to do with those slots.

That should about cover everything.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 18, 2007, 09:07:06 AM

Ha ha.  I've been vindicated by the St. Thomas loss.  I might have ranked them in the mid to late teens, but now I don't have to drop them any next week!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 18, 2007, 01:32:28 PM
Hoops,

I saw Hope demolish Adrian last night (or, to be accurate, saw them lead 39-12 at the half, at which point I caved to family pressure and left!) - Hope is legit.

It was difficult to tell HOW good they are, since Adrian absolutely stunk up the place (4 of 25 from the field at the half, passes 5 feet over the intended receiver's head, etc.), but SOME of that was due to a smothering Hope defense.  Hope is big, quick, and well-disciplined.  I only wish I could have observed them against an opponent that could challenge them.  Since Adrian beat Calvin, I doubt Hope will lose any conference games (though Hope-Calvin is, of course, always an unknown).  You may eventually have to judge a still untested Hope team that is 23-2! ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 18, 2007, 01:39:23 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 18, 2007, 01:32:28 PM
Hoops,

I saw Hope demolish Adrian last night (or, to be accurate, saw them lead 39-12 at the half, at which point I caved to family pressure and left!) - Hope is legit.

It was difficult to tell HOW good they are, since Adrian absolutely stunk up the place (4 of 25 from the field at the half, passes 5 feet over the intended receiver's head, etc.), but SOME of that was due to a smothering Hope defense.  Hope is big, quick, and well-disciplined.  I only wish I could have observed them against an opponent that could challenge them.  Since Adrian beat Calvin, I doubt Hope will lose any conference games (though Hope-Calvin is, of course, always an unknown).  You may eventually have to judge a still untested Hope team that is 23-2! ;)


They may make it in this week by virtue of the fact that none of their competitors in my book actually want to be ranked.  Although I wonder about the shady practices at Hope when they've already got the boxscore for the game this upcoming Saturday posted to d3hoops.com.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 18, 2007, 04:33:10 PM
Have you seen Alma?  ;) :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 18, 2007, 05:34:54 PM
Quote from: sac on January 18, 2007, 04:33:10 PM
Have you seen Alma?


Well I could understand posting the W ahead of time, but the whole box score seems a bit excessive.  Are we sure Alma even exists?  This isn't like a a Globetrotters-Generals thing is it?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 21, 2007, 09:20:14 PM
Mine is in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 21, 2007, 10:37:19 PM
I like this multi-region board. Lots of insight into teams I otherwise wouldn't know a lot about.


That being said, remember to give Utica College some love! With their win over St. John Fisher this week, bringing their record to 12-2, things are looking up in Central New York.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 21, 2007, 11:36:14 PM
I think we've gained some respect, since now people are lobbying US for votes! Heh...
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 21, 2007, 11:40:05 PM
Quote from: smedindy on January 21, 2007, 11:36:14 PM
I think we've gained some respect, since now people are lobbying US for votes! Heh...

atnwriter (http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=1526.msg657903#msg657903) is auctioining his vote on the women's board!  :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 21, 2007, 11:44:18 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 21, 2007, 11:40:05 PM
Quote from: smedindy on January 21, 2007, 11:36:14 PM
I think we've gained some respect, since now people are lobbying US for votes! Heh...

atnwriter (http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=1526.msg657903#msg657903) is auctioining his vote on the women's board!  :)

I doubt we've gained THAT much respect!  (But just in case, send me a PM to make an offer!) ;D

Actually, I appreciate that bit of lobbying - Utica was on my very early list, but had fallen off the radar.  I'll have to check them out again.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: formerbant10 on January 22, 2007, 01:14:03 AM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on January 21, 2007, 10:37:19 PM
I like this multi-region board. Lots of insight into teams I otherwise wouldn't know a lot about.


That being said, remember to give Utica College some love! With their win over St. John Fisher this week, bringing their record to 12-2, things are looking up in Central New York.

I've seen Fisher play this year and they weren't that impressive.  Had a lot of trouble with RIT, who is no powerhouse.  12-2 is good, but if that's their signature win....they've got a ways to go.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: UCgrad45 on January 22, 2007, 01:24:23 AM
Quote from: formerbant10 on January 22, 2007, 01:14:03 AM
Quote from: UCgrad45 on January 21, 2007, 10:37:19 PM
I like this multi-region board. Lots of insight into teams I otherwise wouldn't know a lot about.


That being said, remember to give Utica College some love! With their win over St. John Fisher this week, bringing their record to 12-2, things are looking up in Central New York.

I've seen Fisher play this year and they weren't that impressive.  Had a lot of trouble with RIT, who is no powerhouse.  12-2 is good, but if that's their signature win....they've got a ways to go.

Fisher is getting better each game. They aren't as good as they were in past years, but at 12-3 they aren't a slouch either. They have some great freshmen.

Honestly, at this point in the season, this years Utica team is better than the one that went to the sweet 16 last year. They play great as a team and have height that they did not have last year. They may have lost two 1000 point scorers (1 had more than 1500), but they play great team ball. UC went 2-1 without their all-american Ray Bryant who missed 3 games. Don't be surprised if they knock off a team or two that is supposed to be far superior like they did when they wrecked wpi on their home court last season.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 22, 2007, 01:45:38 AM
I will confess my lack-of-enthusiasm for the Mid-Atlantic/New York/Atlantic teams (top of the UAA/NESCAC excepted) because of how poorly they do when they run into Great Lakes Region powerhouses.  When I start looking at the Top 25, I have more trouble trying to figure out why I am omitting the #5 CCIW or the #3/#4 WIAC or the #2/#3/#4 OAC or some other Great Lakes Region contender.  (Have I missed a good HCAC team?)

I am conceding JHU as the tip of a "very low-floating" iceberg, and maybe because of how much love they may be getting from the voters in the formal Top 25 in the Mid-Atlantic/ Atlantic/ East Regions.  They got 55 points last week.  JHU may be getting 0 votes on 5 ballots, #24/#25 on 10 ballots (there's 15 points), and the remaining 10 votes from that part of the country have them around #22 for their other 40 points.   :-\
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 22, 2007, 08:56:55 AM

I haven't even begun looking at the weekend scores yet.  I'll get to it soon and my assuredly unorthodox ballot will be right in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 22, 2007, 08:58:01 AM
This might help.  Thanks to DC.

Quote from: David Collinge on January 21, 2007, 04:43:31 PM
Top 25 Scores and Schedules, Jan. 15-21 (FINAL):

#1 UW-Stevens Point (16-1) won at UW-Platteville 73-68 and def. UW-River Falls 106-61
#2 Amherst (17-0) def. Elms 103-69, def. Middlebury 79-73, and def. Williams 72-51
#3 St. Thomas (14-2) lost at St. John's 64-59 and won at St. Mary's (MN) 73-46
#4 Wooster (15-2) won at Hiram 111-57 and won at Ohio Wesleyan 61-54
#5 Virginia Wesleyan (14-2) won at Eastern Mennonite 85-56 and def. Randolph-Macon 65-60
#6 Wittenberg (14-3) lost at Ohio Wesleyan 70-48 and def. Allegheny 83-51
#7 Mississippi College (15-1) won at Louisiana College 63-43 and won at U. of the Ozarks 65-47
#8 Ohio Northern (13-4) def. Otterbein 79-70 and lost at Marietta 72-68
#9 Elmhurst (14-2) won at North Park 79-76 and lost at Wheaton (IL) 77-74
#10 Whitworth (16-1) def. Whitman 62-59 and won at Willamette 79-66
#11 Hope (14-2) won at Adrian 81-42 and def. Alma 86-53
#12 UW-Oshkosh (15-3) def. UW-Whitewater 65-60 and won at UW-Superior 79-53
#13 Washington U. (14-1) def. Rochester 68-59 and def. Carnegie Mellon 73-49
#14 Puget Sound (14-2) def. Lewis and Clark 94-88 and def. Linfield 70-64
#15 Augustana (14-3) won at Millikin 80-65 and won at North Central 60-59
#16 UW-La Crosse (11-6) lost at UW-River Falls 81-72 and lost at UW-Eau Claire 65-47
#17 Occidental (11-3) won at Pomona-Pitzer 70-54 and won at Cal Lutheran 68-56
#18 Worcester Polytech (14-1) won at MIT 64-43 and def. Springfield 76-56
#19 Aurora (15-1) won at Concordia (IL) 77-71, won at Concordia (WI) 95-71, and def. Rockford 90-47
#20 Guilford (13-2) lost at Roanoke 72-68, def. Bridgewater (VA) 70-66, and def. Eastern Mennonite 79-69
#21 Bates (14-2) won at St. Joseph's (ME) 89-80, def. Husson 70-55, and def. Tufts 72-44
#22 Rhode Island College (14-2) def. Western Connecticut 85-61 and lost at #24 Keene St. 92-81
#23 Carthage (11-5) won at North Central 80-69 and def. Millikin 64-60
#24 Keene St. (14-2) lost to Eastern Connecticut 73-71 and def. #22 Rhode Island College 92-81
#25 Johns Hopkins (15-2) won at Franklin and Marshall 69-66 and won at Dickinson 77-40

Top 25 teams went a composite 45-9; not too bad.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 22, 2007, 10:25:45 AM

Mine's in.  Witt finally ran out of benefit-of-the-doubt points with me.  They dropped precipitously.  Hope came very close to making it in with me this week, as did Utica.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 22, 2007, 05:36:15 PM
We've been stuck on 7 ballots since before noon.  Times running low - let's hear from the rest of the crew!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 22, 2007, 05:39:47 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 22, 2007, 05:36:15 PM
We've been stuck on 7 ballots since before noon.  Times running low - let's hear from the rest of the crew!

If you don't get enough you can put mine in twice.  That should screw things up.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 22, 2007, 05:40:58 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 26, 2006, 10:47:33 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on December 25, 2006, 05:11:59 PM

I'm in.  Can't wait to be vindicated once again for leaving a consensus top 10 team off my ballot only to have them lose mightily down the stretch.

Careful, Hoops, these things can go in cycles.  This year you'll probably never cast a vote all season for the eventual national champion!


Just remembered this post from a while back, which could be a really good omen for all the Flying Dutch fans out there!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 22, 2007, 06:53:29 PM
Mine's in, and it was painless, really.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 22, 2007, 07:04:13 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 22, 2007, 05:40:58 PM
Just remembered this post from a while back, which could be a really good omen for all the Flying Dutch fans out there!

Yes we are quite proud of our women's program........we can always hope your vibes will help the men's program...the Flying Dutchmen. ;)


Mine is on its way shortly, I've just decided Stevens Point is so far ahead of everyone that I wouldn't bother ranking them this week. ;) :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 22, 2007, 07:47:12 PM
If I have time, I'll get it in when I get home from work.  I may need an extension though...  I can have it in by 8:30 Central
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 22, 2007, 08:06:01 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 22, 2007, 05:36:15 PM
We've been stuck on 7 ballots since before noon.  Times running low - let's hear from the rest of the crew!

I sent mine in around 3.  Did you get it?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 22, 2007, 08:47:29 PM
Quote from: Old School on January 22, 2007, 08:06:01 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 22, 2007, 05:36:15 PM
We've been stuck on 7 ballots since before noon.  Times running low - let's hear from the rest of the crew!

I sent mine in around 3.  Did you get it?

Yes, but for some reason not for about 3 hours (PMs have generally be essentially instantaneous).

I'll hold the balloting open for another hour for PS - anyone else?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 22, 2007, 09:25:23 PM
I'm in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 22, 2007, 09:40:31 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on January 22, 2007, 09:25:23 PM
I'm in.
Thanks Point! +1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 22, 2007, 10:34:54 PM
Posters' Poll, thru games of Jan 21, 2007:

1.  UWSP 224 [8] (1-2)
2.  Amherst 215 [1] (1-4)
3.  Woo 207 (2-6)
4.  VaWes 193 (3-7)
5.  MissCol 192 (3-7)
6.  Whitworth 168 (4-10)
7.  WashU 158 (5-12)
8.  Elmhurst 151 (7-13)
9.  St. Thomas 142 (5-17)
10.  Hope 141 (5-12, 1NV)
11.  Puget Sound 132 (6-16)
t12  Augie 130 (8-14)
t12  UWOsh 130 (7-19)
14.  Witt 115 (10-17
15.  Aurora 92 (14-20)
t16  ONU 69 (15-19, 1NV)
t16  Oxy 69 (13-23, 2NV)
t16  WPI 69 (15-19, 1NV)
t19  Bates 46 (16-19, 3NV)
t19  Wheaton 46 (12-23, 2NV)
21.  Carthage 43 (18-21, 2NV)
22.  Johns Hopkins 33 (16-25, 2NV)
23.  NYU 24 (20-25, 1NV)
24.  Chicago 21 (14-24, 5NV)
t25  Trinity, CT 18 (18-24, 6NV)
t25  UWLaX 18 (21-25, 3NV

27. Keene St. 15 (4 votes: 20-25)
t28 MHB 13 (1 voter)
t28 RIC 13 (3 voters: 21-22)
30. Guilford 12 (5 voters: 20-25)
31. Ramapo 10 (1 voter)
32. Willie Pat 7 (2 voters: 21-24)
33. Scranton 5 (1 voter)
34. St. John's 3 (1 voter)
t35 Bald Wally 2 (1 voter)
t35 Brandeis 2 (1 voter)

An incredible number of ties (and near-ties) this week - imagine the power you could have had as the tenth voter!! ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 22, 2007, 11:33:22 PM
Nice job Mr. Y.

I don't know why but looking at my ballot I left off Oxy by accident, sorry.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 23, 2007, 08:53:27 AM

Glad to see my ballot is becoming more and more orthodox by the week.  Now if I can only get someone else to vote for MHB... c'mon guys they're doing really well.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 23, 2007, 09:27:55 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 23, 2007, 08:53:27 AM

Glad to see my ballot is becoming more and more orthodox by the week.  Now if I can only get someone else to vote for MHB... c'mon guys they're doing really well.
Hoops fan, respectfully, UMHB had trouble with Howard Payne in Brownwood on Saturday.  They have 10 conference remaining.  Six games are easily winnable. The 2 against Concordia-Austin, their travel partner, may give them trouble, if CUA gets hot.  UMHB doesn't have a "Top 25 test" until the last weekend of division play (15 & 17 Feb 07) when to go to McMurry and then to Hardin-Simmons with the #1 seed from the West Division on the line.  The ice storms messed their schedule so they play 3 games per week for the next 3 week and 10 games in 22 days.  With the travel requirements in the ASC, that is more than usual.  They will be 20-3 by the McMurry game, but will not have had a serious test since VWC in December.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 23, 2007, 09:50:18 AM

Well.  We'll certainly know for sure what they're made of by the end of that run, huh?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 23, 2007, 11:24:59 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 23, 2007, 09:50:18 AM

Well.  We'll certainly know for sure what they're made of by the end of that run, huh?
Hoops, I will rank UMHB in the low 20's if they sweep the next 10 games. :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 23, 2007, 11:38:18 AM

What about one loss?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 23, 2007, 12:03:32 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 23, 2007, 11:38:18 AM

What about one loss?
UMHB's IN-Region wins over Trinity TX, Souhthwestern and Ripon are not looking as significant as 3 weeks ago, and the loss to UT-Dallas is less lustrous, too.

I think that they need to sweep the ASC-West to be genuine.  Then I would tout them.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 23, 2007, 12:04:20 PM
I am waiting on NYU to show me what they have over the next 2 weekends, for that matter.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 23, 2007, 01:05:23 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 23, 2007, 12:03:32 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 23, 2007, 11:38:18 AM

What about one loss?
UMHB's IN-Region wins over Trinity TX, Souhthwestern and Ripon are not looking as significant as 3 weeks ago, and the loss to UT-Dallas is less lustrous, too.

I think that they need to sweep the ASC-West to be genuine.  Then I would tout them.


That's true.  A lot of my initial confidence in them came from a schedule that is becoming less impressive as the season goes along.  I may have to make a major adjustment in the future, especially if they start to lose some games.  I reached that point with Wittenberg this week, as did, evidently, a number of voters in the real poll.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 23, 2007, 11:44:58 PM
I ran my ballot past the "official" Top 25.  I missed on NYU in favor of UW-LaCrosse.  (I would take UW-LC over NYU in a game at the University of Chicago or any other neutral site.)  It appears that I was the outlier on NYU.

I appreciate your compiling this and giving us the range.  I can see the strength of the support that we represent.

I am looking forward to this next weekend.  We should get some more consensus.

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 24, 2007, 08:45:35 AM

I had La Crosse at 21 and NYU at 25.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 24, 2007, 09:59:05 AM
I had NYU 24, LaX 25.  My 'unique' contibution this week was St. John's at 23.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 24, 2007, 10:10:56 AM
I thought there was pretty good consensus in the Top 21, and I can see how the confusion can begin in the bottom 5.

When I have a problem with a team, I imagine how they would do head-to-head on a neutral floor.

I think that I have some weak teams in my Top 25.  I just haven't found them yet.

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 24, 2007, 09:59:05 AM
I had NYU 24, LaX 25.  My 'unique' contibution this week was St. John's at 23.

And St Mary's (http://www.d3hoops.com/school_info.php?year=2007&team=mens&school=St.+Mary%27s+%28Minn.%29) took notice!  We can call it the "Mr. Ypsi jinx"!   :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 24, 2007, 11:29:41 AM
I had LAX out and I'm the Scranton believer.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 24, 2007, 12:14:34 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 24, 2007, 10:10:56 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 24, 2007, 09:59:05 AM
I had NYU 24, LaX 25.  My 'unique' contibution this week was St. John's at 23.

And St Mary's (http://www.d3hoops.com/school_info.php?year=2007&team=mens&school=St.+Mary%27s+%28Minn.%29) took notice!  We can call it the "Mr. Ypsi jinx"!   :D

Yeah, even MORE potent than the real poll - St. John's had already lost by the time I got the PP posted, while it took the Scranton women's team a whole hour or so to lose after they got the #1 ranking! ;D ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hoaf on January 24, 2007, 08:55:04 PM
I'm surprised some of you have St. John's in the picture without even thinking of Utica.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 24, 2007, 09:57:34 PM
Quote from: Hoaf on January 24, 2007, 08:55:04 PM
I'm surprised some of you have St. John's in the picture without even thinking of Utica.

"some of you" would be ME (the only vote for St. John's).  I may have over-reacted to their win over St. Thomas - and, as Ralph noted, I quickly got my come-uppance! ;)

Utica IS back on my radar screen - right now I'd see them as top 30-35, not quite top 25.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 24, 2007, 10:27:40 PM
Saw Witt today. They're going to struggle on offense, but their defense will get them a lot of wins. Borchers and Hill are good players, but other than that its grinders and role players and tight ends masquerading as basketball players. (6-4, 250 lb senior Mark Huelsman. Don't think he played FB but he plays hoops like a TE!)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 25, 2007, 08:44:05 AM

I guess Oshkosh was a little better than I thought.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 25, 2007, 08:46:04 AM

I've been wanting to vote for Redlands the last few weeks because they've been overachieving so much.  They just had yet to play anyone good.  I haven't looked at all the competition yet, but could this win be enough to get them some recognition?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 26, 2007, 11:26:01 PM
NYU lost at Chicago and still has Wash StL on Sunday.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 27, 2007, 12:32:27 AM
Quote from: sac on January 22, 2007, 11:33:22 PM

I don't know why but looking at my ballot I left off Oxy by accident, sorry.

Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 26, 2007, 11:26:01 PM
NYU lost at Chicago and still has Wash StL on Sunday.

The irony here is I'm sure Chicago is the team I thought I needed to add to my poll when I already had Occidental sloted in there. :D 8)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 28, 2007, 09:09:41 PM
Mine are in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 28, 2007, 10:05:46 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 28, 2007, 09:09:41 PM
Mine are in.

Despite more upheaval in the top 25 than last week, we stayed in remarkable synch - our top 17 match, with 15 of them either identical spot or off by one.  Four of the bottom 8 were pretty close, but some were quite different.  18-30 (perhaps even 35) are pretty close to interchangeable in my mind.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 28, 2007, 10:18:23 PM
I will bet that we matched 21 of our top 25, too.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 28, 2007, 11:20:04 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 28, 2007, 10:18:23 PM
I will bet that we matched 21 of our top 25, too.

Actually, 22 of 25, but a couple were several slots apart.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 29, 2007, 09:07:42 AM
Compliments of DC,

Quote from: David Collinge on January 28, 2007, 03:20:10 PM
Top 25 Scores and Schedule, January 22-28 (FINAL)

#   1   UW-Stevens Point (16-2) lost to #8 UW-Oskosh 72-55
#   2   Amherst (20-0) def. So. Vermont 111-67, won at Colby 69-58, and won at Bowdoin 73-55
#   3   Wooster (17-2) def. Kenyon 89-54 and won at Earlham 64-51
#   4   Virginia Wesleyan (16-3) def. Hampden-Sydney 75-49, lost at Emory & Henry 124-101, and won at #25 Guilford 72-69
#   5   Mississippi College (17-1) def. LeTorneau 72-51 and def. East Texas Baptist 66-46
#   6   St. Thomas (17-2) won at St. Olaf 78-53, def. Hamline 90-71, and won at Macalester 87-55
#   7   Whitworth (17-2) won at Pacific 77-69 and lost at Lewis & Clark 66-60
#   8   UW-Oshkosh (17-3) won at #1 UW-Stevens Point 72-55 and def. UW-River Falls 90-67
#   9   Hope (16-2) def. Tri-State 101-57 and def. Kalamazoo 86-48
#   10   Washington U. (16-1) def. Brandeis 68-64 and def. #24 NYU 79-78 (OT)
#   11   Elmhurst (15-3) def. North Central 98-84 and lost at #12 Augustana 86-74
#   12   Augustana (16-3) def. Illinois Wesleyan 64-62 and def. #11 Elmhurst 86-74
#   13   Puget Sound (14-4) lost at Willamette 119-108 and lost at George Fox 75-63
#   14   Ohio Northern (15-4) def. Heidelberg 83-80 and won at Baldwin-Wallace 83-74
#   15   Occidental (12-4) lost to Redlands 109-106 and won at La Verne 70-49
#   16   Wittenberg (16-3) won at Wabash 64-51 and def. Denison 87-65
#   17   Worcester Polytech (16-1) def. Coast Guard 76-68 and won at Wheaton (Mass.) 67-64
#   18   Aurora (17-1) def. Lakeland 94-76 and def. Benedictine 83-79
#   19   Bates (16-3) def. Emmanuel 75-57, won at Wesleyan 59-56 (OT), and lost at Conn. College 82-65
#   20   Carthage (13-5) won at North Park 64-62 and def. Illinois Wesleyan 94-83
#   21   Wheaton (Ill.) (12-6) won at Millikin 71-57 and lost at North Central 79-68
#   22   Johns Hopkins (17-2) def. Gettysburg 83-67 and won at Washington Coll. 72-54
#   23   Keene St. (16-3) won at Plymouth St. 58-57, won at Mitchell 79-69, and lost at Mass.-Dartmouth 97-74
#   24   NYU (14-4) lost at Chicago 62-60 and lost at #10 Washington U. 79-78 (OT)
#   25   Guilford (14-3) def. Randolph-Macon 76-65 and lost to #4 Virginia Wesleyan 72-69
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 29, 2007, 10:48:31 AM
I'm in. My bottom 5 was a struggle...
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 29, 2007, 10:54:41 AM

The team schedules and conference rankings pages are struggling right now, so it will probably take me a little longer, although I think I'm set on my teams.  I just need to worry about order.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 29, 2007, 02:07:53 PM

Mine's finally in.  You Dutch fans will be glad to know that Hope has finally made the cut in my book.

The last spot was a tough one between Guilford and Utica.  I went with Guilford simply on strength of schedule.  I feel they deserve it more at this point, although I pity any school that underestimates Utica in the tournament.

Also close but just missing: Rochester, Rhode Island College, Trinity (CT) and Keene State.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 29, 2007, 04:13:40 PM
in like Flint.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 29, 2007, 06:33:35 PM
Seven ballots in.  Hoping to hear from PS, sac, and fdf soon!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 29, 2007, 08:17:32 PM
The real poll is now out and it is past the 8 pm deadline.  But I hate to release a poll with only 7 voters (feels like the coaches, or something!!)

I'll post in one hour whether I hear from the rest or not - c'mon guys!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 29, 2007, 09:44:34 PM
I'm getting mine finished up as we... read!  Sorry, 7:00 (or 8:00 for that matter) on Mondays are tough for me.

I'll have it to you asap
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 29, 2007, 09:54:57 PM
Well, we got an 8th ballot - here's hoping for at least 10 next week!

Instead of the range (which can be misleading with outlyers), I'll list the actual votes in parens.

POSTERS' POLL THRU GAMES OF 1-28-07

1.  Amherst  200  (unanimous #1)
2.  Wooster  185  (2,2,2,2,2,3,3,7)
3.  UWSP   184  (2,2,3,3,3,3,4,4)
4.  MissCol  178  (2,3,3,4,4,4,4,6)
5.  UWOsh  160  (5,5,5,5,5,6,6,11)
6.  WashU  155  (4,5,6,7,7,8,8,8)
7.  St.Thomas  143  (4,6,6,8,8,11,11,11)
8.  Va Wes  142  (6,7,7,7,8,9,9,13)
9.  Augie   141  (6,7,7,9,9,9,10,10)
10. Hope   130  (5,5,8,9,9,10,11,21)
11. Whitworth  119  (9,10,10,11,12,12,12,13)
12. Elmhurst  111  (8,10,10,10,12,14,16,17)
13. Wittenberg  96  (12,13,14,14,14,14,15,16)
14. ONU   85  (11,13,13,13,13,17,17,-)
15. Aurora  84  (12,12,15,15,15,16,16,23)
16. WPI   77  (11,15,15,16,16,16,16,-)
17. Chicago  57  (12,17,18,19,20,20,22,23)
18. Carthage  54  (14,17,17,17,17,20,-,-)
19. JHU   53  (14,15,18,19,19,20,24,-)
20. UPS   45  (14,18,18,19,21,21,-,-)
21. Oxy   31  (18,18,18,20,25,-,-,-)
22. MHB  24  (15,20,21,24,-,-,-,-)
23. UWLaX  19  (19,21,23,24,24,-,-,-)
24. RIC   18  (18,21,23,24,-,-,-,-)
25. Wheaton  14  (13,25,-,-,-,-,-,-)

26. DePauw  13  (21,22,22 --)
27. Guilford  11  (22,22,24,25 --)
28. Scranton  10  (19,23 --)
t29 Bates  9  (22,22,25 --)
t29 Lake Erie  9  (20,24,25 --)
31. Utica  8  (21,23 --)
t32 Brandeis  7  (19 --)
t32 NYU  7  (20,25 --)
t32 Ramapo  7  (22,23 --)
t32 Salem St  7  (19 --)
36. Keene St  4  (23,25 --)
37. Trinity CT  2  (24 --)
38. St John's  1  (25 --)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 29, 2007, 10:02:15 PM
I understand that NYU lost two away games, a two-point loss by a now-ranked Chicago and a one-point overtime loss to ranked Washington U...but only dropping ONE spot?  Come on....they did drop 33 votes, I guess.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 29, 2007, 10:15:29 PM
PS got his ballot in while I was typing the poll - I'm not going to totally redo it, but here are just the numbers for the top 25 (a couple of small changes):

1.  Amherst  223 (no longer unanimous)
t2  UWSP  209
t2  Woo  209
4.  MissCol  199
5.  UWOsh  182
6.  WashU  172
t7  Va Wes  161
t7  St Thomas  161
9.  Augie  157
10  Hope  150
11  Whitworth  131
12  Elmhurst  126
13  Witt  106
t14  Aurora  98
t14  ONU   98
16  WPI  85
17  Carthage  65
18  JHU  59
19  Chicago  57
20  UPS  45
21  Oxy  38
22  UWLaX  28
23  MHB  24
24  RIC  20
25  Wheaton  14

Thanks to Ralph (in PM) for catching the errors. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 29, 2007, 11:03:32 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on January 29, 2007, 09:44:34 PM
I'm getting mine finished up as we... read!  Sorry, 7:00 (or 8:00 for that matter) on Mondays are tough for me.

I'll have it to you asap
Thanks, Point!  +1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 29, 2007, 11:34:31 PM
I have corrected the revised ballot (the one including PS) - he did NOT send Ramapo all the way from tied for 32nd to 24th!  That should have been RIC (as on the fuller ballot earlier).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 29, 2007, 11:40:50 PM
I like having the ballots. It makes me feel good that I'm not a total weirdo, just a partial weirdo.  :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 29, 2007, 11:41:58 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 29, 2007, 09:54:57 PM
Well, we got an 8th ballot - here's hoping for at least 10 next week!

Instead of the range (which can be misleading with outlyers), I'll list the actual votes in parens.

POSTERS' POLL THRU GAMES OF 1-28-07

1.  Amherst  200  (unanimous #1)
2.  Wooster  185  (2,2,2,2,2,3,3,7)
3.  UWSP   184  (2,2,3,3,3,3,4,4)

I like this way better. Nice job Ypsi.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 29, 2007, 11:44:29 PM
Quote from: Old School on January 29, 2007, 11:41:58 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 29, 2007, 09:54:57 PM
Well, we got an 8th ballot - here's hoping for at least 10 next week!

Instead of the range (which can be misleading with outlyers), I'll list the actual votes in parens.

POSTERS' POLL THRU GAMES OF 1-28-07

1.  Amherst  200  (unanimous #1)
2.  Wooster  185  (2,2,2,2,2,3,3,7)
3.  UWSP   184  (2,2,3,3,3,3,4,4)

I like this way better. Nice job Ypsi.

I agree!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 30, 2007, 12:15:54 AM
Thanks, all.  It's only a little more work, but a LOT more informative - the ranges were often pretty meaningless due to outlyers.  This way you can see where your ranking stood relative to others and (whether to yourself or on the board) either justify your 'dissent' or ponder why others saw things so differently.  I've been doing that all along, but now you can too!

e.g., I've been voting St. Thomas at the low end of the ballots and, while it is comforting that two others share my skepticism, I keep wondering what I'm not seeing that others are (and the real poll has them ranked even higher than the PP)?  On the other hand, I've been voting Va Wes as high or higher than anyone else (perhaps in part because I've also been voting Guilford as high or higher than anyone else!).  This one I'll defend rather than wonder about - to me losing to a system team is not necessarily a major fault.  Those games are just more unpredictable than most - look at what Grinnell did to Lawrence and Carroll on the road on consecutive nights!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 30, 2007, 12:38:26 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 30, 2007, 12:15:54 AM
e.g., I've been voting St. Thomas at the low end of the ballots and, while it is comforting that two others share my skepticism, I keep wondering what I'm not seeing that others are (and the real poll has them ranked even higher than the PP)? 

I remember gettting ripped on a little bit when I was praising La Crosse's win over St. Thomas back in the day.  "They" said that the outcome would've been a lot different had their AC Isaac Rosenfelt had played.  They did beat Occidental and their only other loss is to St. John's, who is 15-4, and 13-1 in the MIAC. Though I wouldn't consider the MIAC a powerhouse conference, they have won every other game.  So I can't really punish them for that.

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 30, 2007, 12:15:54 AM
This one I'll defend rather than wonder about - to me losing to a system team is not necessarily a major fault.  Those games are just more unpredictable than most - look at what Grinnell did to Lawrence and Carroll on the road on consecutive nights!

When system ball is working, it works REALLY well...when it's not working, it looks REALLY bad.  There doesn't seem to be any gray area!  Predictable or not, it's entertaining; I've seen Grinnell play in the past, including twice this year (beat Ripon, lost to Oshkosh)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 30, 2007, 01:10:16 AM
I missed on NYU and Guilford. 

I thought that NYU had a great road trip to Chicago and Wash StL.

I listened to Guilford, as long as I could.  They held their own.  I am confident of my votes when I see my place in these distributions.  :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 30, 2007, 09:09:50 AM

I finally put Hope in, caving to peer pressure and the lack of qualified teams across the country. 

St Thomas seems to be back on track, having a couple of great outings this week.  I've been voting them very low as well, but I'm starting to move them back up.  I think a lot of people were voting on potential whereas I vote based on their play at the moment.  I would assume Ypsi does something similar, which would explain the outlying.

I've had Chicago and WashU high in my poll for a while so two close road losses by Brandeis and NYU didn't do much to my poll.  Both schools still seem stronger than my other options at the end of the poll.

But the ultimate vindication this week is three other posters giving MHB it's due.

Although now I'm still the only one not voting for WPI.  Guys they're just not that good.  They're about as good as Salem State and you won't see me voting for them anytime soon.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 30, 2007, 09:42:38 AM
WPI is 13th on Massey using MOV - so that's pretty darn good for me.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 30, 2007, 10:18:06 AM

They're consistent and their talented, but they aren't any better than they were last year and that wasn't really a top 25 team.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: formerbant10 on January 30, 2007, 11:54:19 AM
Hoops, you're probably right about WPI....but they're winning the games they play and you can't knock them for that.  In a different conference they may only be .500, but 17-1 is a pretty solid record and they should get some recognition for that.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 30, 2007, 12:11:52 PM
Quote from: formerbant10 on January 30, 2007, 11:54:19 AM
Hoops, you're probably right about WPI....but they're winning the games they play and you can't knock them for that.  In a different conference they may only be .500, but 17-1 is a pretty solid record and they should get some recognition for that.

Sure, but wouldn't you also agree that Trinity should be getting more support that WPI?  I'm not saying the Engineers aren't good.  I think they have the experience and talent to surprise some team in the playoffs, but I just don't think that overall they are a top tier squad.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: formerbant10 on January 30, 2007, 01:04:25 PM
Trinity had a bad loss to Bowdoin.  So I can see the logic behind their drop in support.  If the two teams played, I'm pretty sure that the Bants would be victorious....but again, they've done a good job handling their schedule.

I do not understand how Bates is still in the top 25 in the real poll.  OT to beat Wesleyan and lost to Conn....right now I might take WPI over the Bobcats in a game as well.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 30, 2007, 01:12:10 PM

I think Bates is getting the benefit of the doubt for a weak string.  I think much like Wittenberg earlier this year, they are being judged on their potential (which, I think you'll agree is great), however, they are on the edge.  You could see them disappear real fast if they slip up at all this week.

They had such an opportunity with Trinity and Amherst at the sauna this year and they blew it.  For me, it almost kills me not to vote for them because I know how good they can be.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 30, 2007, 01:44:27 PM
The nine-vote poll has been corrected.  I slipped a line and had several teams in the 20s misidentified.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 30, 2007, 04:21:59 PM
If you recall, in the past I have run a power rating amalgamation for fun and giggles, taking power ratings, adding in the SOS element and another calculation that I do (which is easy) and here it is.

Using this formula, which over time gets more accurate, right now I have a surprise #1 thanks to their power ranking and SOS.

1. Wash U.
2 WI - Stevens Point
3. Wooster
4. WI - Oshkosh
5. Augustana
6. Elmhurst
7. Amherst (SOS is low)
8. St. Thomas
9. Chicago
10. Hope
11. Mississippi College (SOS)
12. Wittenberg
13. Ohio Northern
14. Whitworth
15. Virginia Wesleyan
16. Guilford
17. WPI
18. Occidental
19. Aurora
20. Carthage
21. Messiah (!)
22. NYU
23. Maryville (TN)
24. Rochester
25. Trinity (CT)

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 30, 2007, 05:11:07 PM
Nice work! and some surprises.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 30, 2007, 05:13:45 PM

I said on the top 25 board, Messiah, in my mind makes as good a case as Scranton right now.  They are certainly a team I'm keeping my eye on.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: diehardfan on January 30, 2007, 05:26:24 PM
Since you guys were talking about St. Thomas, you might want to check the Top 25 board for the discussion.

I personally really like the MACC, if only for the fact that they were much less painful to watch to my Midwest eyes than the CAC during east coast version of my DIII basetball siberian exile. Between the MACC and the MACF there is some great basketball history, so you never know when someone will step up.... I would have to do some research on Messiah's particulars though since I think I haven't seen a MACC game in two years.

Smed, can you send me more details on how your power ratings work?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 04, 2007, 09:04:58 PM
Mine are in.  ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 05, 2007, 08:41:01 AM

Hopefully I can get to it by 1 or 2.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 05, 2007, 08:45:19 AM
Quote from: David Collinge on February 03, 2007, 10:41:52 PM
Top 25 Schedule and Scores, Jan. 29-Feb. 4 (FINAL):

#   1   Amherst (23-0) won at Rhode Island Coll. 62-48, def. Conn. College 91-49, and def. Wesleyan 81-56
#   2   Wooster (18-3) def. Allegheny 109-71 and lost to #11 Wittenberg 74-71
#   3   UW-Stevens Point (18-2) def. UW-Eau Claire 90-61 and won at #22 UW-La Crosse 68-65
#   4   Mississippi College (18-2) lost at LeTourneau 64-62 and won at East Texas Baptist 61-32
#   5   UW-Oshkosh (18-4) lost to #22 UW-La Crosse 73-62 and def. UW-Stout 79-61
#   6   St. Thomas (19-2) def. Carleton 51-41 and def. Bethel 89-67
#   7   Washington U. (16-3) lost at #25 NYU 73-57 and lost at Brandeis 81-75 (3 OT)
#   8   Virginia Wesleyan (19-3) def. Bridgewater (VA) 85-46, won at Roanoke 62-48, and won at Washington and Lee 61-49
#   9   Hope (17-2) won at Olivet 79-57 and had their game at Albion postponed until Monday
#   10   Augustana (17-4) won at North Park 71-56 and lost at #17 Carthage 66-56
#   11   Wittenberg (18-3) def. Earlham 87-40 and won at #2 Wooster 74-71
#   12   Elmhurst (16-4) lost to Millikin 89-85 and won at Illinois Wesleyan 84-69
#   13   Whitworth (19-2) def. Linfield 71-58 and def. George Fox 90-64
#   14   Ohio Northern (16-5) won at Otterbein 66-63 (OT) and lost to John Carroll 79-67
#   15   Worcester Polytech (17-2) def. Clark 73-52 and lost at Babson 79-69
#   16   Aurora (19-2) lost at Wisconsin Lutheran 87-82, def. Maranatha Baptist 100-49, and def. Marian 81-53
#   17   Carthage (14-6) lost at Wheaton (IL) 71-67 and def. #10 Augustana 66-56
#   18   Occidental (14-4) def. Whittier 82-60 and won at Cal Tech 108-31
#   19   Chicago (16-4) won at Brandeis 74-69 and lost at #25 NYU 79-76
#   20   Johns Hopkins (19-2) won at Swarthmore 63-59 and won at Haverford 72-68 (2 OT)
#   21   Puget Sound (16-4) def. Pacific Lutheran 89-86 and def. Pacific 85-79
#   22   UW-La Crosse (14-7) won at #5 UW-Oshkosh 73-62 and lost to #3 UW-Stevens Point 68-65
#   23   Bates (17-4) lost at Williams 67-54 and won at Middlebury 81-48
#   24   Guilford (16-3) won at Washington and Lee 62-61 and won at Lynchburg 95-70
#   25   NYU (16-4) def. #7 Washington U. 73-57 and def. #19 Chicago 79-76

Collectively, 38-14 (.731) for the week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 05, 2007, 09:45:23 AM
Wow. This was hard. I considered 39 teams in all. Yikes!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 05, 2007, 01:50:12 PM

It's in.  I don't like it, but it's done.

I added teams to my list of possibles, even when I knew they weren't going to get on just because they were leading a conference or had a stand-out record in respect to their peers, etc and ended up with an extra 25.  I'm sure some of the middle or lower teams from the power conferences would be in this mix somewhere, I thought it was an odd coincidence that I ended up with a "Second 25."  Anyway, for kicks, I thought I'd throw it out here.  These haven't been fully analyzed, but a rough ranking:

NJCU, Utica, Lincoln, Bates, Centre, Occidental, Captial, RIC, Ramapo, Stevens, Hopkins, Keene State, Loras, Lake Erie, St. John's, Brockport State, Bluffton, Grinnell, Messiah, Maryville, Lewis & Clark, Ohio Wesleyan, Salem State, WPI, Husson
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 05, 2007, 06:02:37 PM
done
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2007, 06:12:22 PM
Only six ballots in so far.  35 teams have been mentioned, but we seem to so far have a fairly clear top '26'.

sac won't be submitting 'til after the make-up game by Hope ('hope'fully he won't be influenced by what they do tonite!), so the balloting will remain open until 10:30-11.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on February 05, 2007, 09:32:27 PM
Getting mine in (late as usual)...  I didn't file for an extension... do you think I'll get auditted?

I'll have mine in soon!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2007, 09:40:12 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on February 05, 2007, 09:32:27 PM
Getting mine in (late as usual)...  I didn't file for an extension... do you think I'll get auditted?

I'll have mine in soon!

I always audit - fortunately I have (so far) never prosecuted! ;D ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 05, 2007, 10:29:13 PM
I hate my poll ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hoaf on February 05, 2007, 11:25:18 PM
I'm in. Hopefully, you guys don't think I'll have an eastern bias. My poll was very fair. I look forward to seeing the results.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2007, 11:34:35 PM
POSTERS' POLL, thru games of Feb 4, 2007:

1.  Amherst  224 (8-1s and a 2)
2.  UWSP   217 (8-2s and a 1)
3.  Wooster  197 (3,3,3,3,4,4,5,6,6)
4.  St. Thomas  191 (3,3,3,4,4,4,5,6,11)
5.  Va. Wes.  190 (4,4,4,5,5,5,5,6,6)
6.  Miss. Col.  170 (4,6,6,7,8,8,8,8,9)
7.  Hope   167 (3,3,5,5,6,7,7,10,21)
8.  Wittenberg  159 (5,7,7,8,8,8,9,11,13)
9.  UW-Osh.   153 (7,7,7,9,9,9,9,10,14)
10 Augustana  141 (6,7,9,10,10,11,11,14,15)
11 Whitworth  135 (8,8,9,10,10,10,11,11,12)
12 Wash. U.   113 (10,11,12,13,13,14,15,16,17)
13 Elmhurst   98 (9,11,12,12,12,13,16,25,-)
14 Puget Sound  82 (13,13,15,15,15,16,19,20,-)
15 Carthage   73 (14,14,14,17,18,18,19,21,-)
16 NYU     72 (12,16,16,17,18,18,18,21,-)
17 Occidental  67 (11,13,14,16,17,18,-,-,-)
18 Johns Hopkins  65 (10,12,15,17,20,23,23,23,-)
19 Ohio Northern  56 (13,14,16,17,20,22,25,25,-)
20 Aurora   47 (13,16,20,20,22,22,24,24,-)
21 UW-LaX  46 (14,15,19,20,21,22,25,-,-)
22 Chicago  45 (17,17,18,19,19,21,-,-,-)
23 Guilford  44 (18,19,20,21,22,22,22,23,23)
24 WPI     41 (15,18,19,21,21,22,25,-,-)
25 MHB     36 (12,15,20,23,24,-,-,-,-)

26 Wheaton  27 (12,21,23,24,24,25,-,-,-)

27 Lake Erie  12 (19,23,24 --)
28 Trinity CT  11 (16,25 --)
29 DePauw   9 (17 --)
30 Brandeis  7 (19 --)
31 Salem St.  6 (20 --)
t32 Utica    4 (23,25 --)
t32 Loras   4 (22 --)
t34 RIC      2 (24 --)
t34 Rochester  2 (24 --)
t36 JCU     1
t36 St. Lawrence  1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 06, 2007, 12:13:50 AM
Some quick comments on the poll.

With 9 voters naming 25 teams, there are 225 votes cast.  210 of them went to just 26 schools.  For this week, at least, we seem to have a rough consensus on the top teams, we just differ on HOW top they are!

Everyone from #13 on down was left off at least one voter's ballot, EXCEPT #23 Guilford - everyone liked them, just no one liked them all that much!

We just don't seem to have any idea what to do with such teams as ONU, Oxy, UW-LaX (among a few others) - some quite high, others very low or left off entirely.  Elmhurst especially was pulled way below most of their votes by a couple skeptics (with Hope a close second).  Some others were much higher than most thought because of one or two 'champions' (JHU and MHB perhaps most dramatically).

On the other hand, I'm surprised at how closely we agreed on the place for double-loser WashU.  The UAA, WIAC, and CCIW alone made this a tough week to vote - thanks to all. :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 06, 2007, 12:23:28 AM
Quote from: Hoaf on February 05, 2007, 11:25:18 PM
I'm in. Hopefully, you guys don't think I'll have an eastern bias. My poll was very fair. I look forward to seeing the results.

Glad to have you.   :) ;D :D

Now we can speculate as to who voted:

10) JHU?
12) NYU?
15) WPI?
16) Trinity CT?
19) Brandeis?
20) Salem St?
23) Utica?
24) Rochester?
25) St Lawrence?

Thanks for joining us!  ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: formerbant10 on February 06, 2007, 12:37:32 AM
I'll show one of my cards.  I had Trinity at 16.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 06, 2007, 12:38:41 AM
Quote from: formerbant10 on February 06, 2007, 12:37:32 AM
I'll show one of my cards.  I had Trinity at 16.
Makes perfect sense to me!  ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: diehardfan on February 06, 2007, 12:52:25 AM
LOL on the Trinity pick.... Gordon Mann thanks you, I'm sure... :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: formerbant10 on February 06, 2007, 01:00:28 AM
I've got a lot of faith in them, but had been holding off for voting them this high, especially after losing to Bowdoin.

But I think they are the #2 team in the NE behind Amherst.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 06, 2007, 07:10:58 AM
I had Johns Hopkins at 12...
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 06, 2007, 07:49:33 AM
Oh, I also had Elmhurst at 25, because the CCIW just KILLED me this week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 06, 2007, 08:47:27 AM

I'm pretty sure I was the Brandeis at #19.



I don't see how you can rank Salem State though.  They haven't come close to beating anyone good and they've lost to mediocre NE Region teams.  That one doesn't make a lot of sense.

I also question Rochester, St Lawrence and WPI, but Utica is ok.  They were #26 on my list for the second consecutive week.


Speaking of not making sense, how is it that now, not only are MHB voters in the majority in this poll, but my ranking of them isn't even the highest anymore?  Where did that come from?

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 06, 2007, 09:07:20 AM
Hoaf, it seems that any East Coast bias is well moderated.  :)

UMHB is still "others receiving votes" for me, and they host Concordia-Austin tonight.  Because of the "ice-storms" in January, UMHB is in the middle of a Saturday, Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, today-Tuesday,  Thursday, Saturday, Thursday (at McMurry) and Saturday (at Hardin-Simmons) run.

I had 25 of Pat Coleman's 26.  Wheaton was my #25.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hoaf on February 06, 2007, 09:44:46 AM
I picked Utica and Rochester but that was about it. I did have NYU up there but I don't think it was at 12. So nice try but I'm not that big of a nut.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 06, 2007, 10:13:21 AM
Quote from: Hoaf on February 06, 2007, 09:44:46 AM
I picked Utica and Rochester but that was about it. I did have NYU up there but I don't think it was at 12. So nice try but I'm not that big of a nut.

I am glad that we had another voter!  +1  :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 06, 2007, 01:31:04 PM
Actually, Hoaf, you were the NYU at #12 voter, but I see nothing indefensible about that!  You also had WPI higher than anyone else.

But, overall, I saw no Eastern bias - you were not 'guilty' of the Brandeis, Trinity, Salem St., RIC, or St. Lawrence votes! ;D

[BTW, my policy generally is to never 'out' a voter's ballot, but I wanted to defend our 'newbie'.  Usually I don't allow new voters after week two, but we've had some recent attrition in the ranks, and with the non-return of knightstalker this year, I jumped at the chance for another eastern voter.  Welcome aboard, Hoaf.]
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 06, 2007, 01:39:57 PM
Quote from: Hoaf on February 06, 2007, 09:44:46 AM
I picked Utica and Rochester but that was about it. I did have NYU up there but I don't think it was at 12. So nice try but I'm not that big of a nut.

Hoaf, last year I was perplexed by UW-Wiac du jour.  Which WIAC do I want to believe this week?  The same can be said for the CCIW this year.

It is looking like we need to focus more on NYU's UAA record and less on the neighborhood teams that they "warm up" against.   :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 06, 2007, 01:50:35 PM

I'm still ranking four teams each from the UAA and the CCIW.  I feel that all of those teams are worthy and the "just missed" schools aren't doing much to prove otherwise.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hoaf on February 06, 2007, 06:18:57 PM
Okay, I couldn't remember whether or not I had put NYU at #12. But I remember why I did. I felt that they have a good team and have been playing good ball lately. They pulled out a big win vs. Washington U after narrowly losing to them the week before in OT. Also, they beat a solid team in Chicago as well.

Two big wins versus good teams you have lost to previously result in a jolt up the rankings.

Also, their earlier loss to Brandeis isn't that bad when you remember that Brandeis is a  solid team.

I also thought that Lake Erie, Utica, and Rochester had a chance of getting on the poll. I've seen some of them play and they have some stellar players.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 08, 2007, 08:46:38 AM

Why? Why did I buy into the Hope hype?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 08, 2007, 09:06:28 AM
Hoops Fan - losing to Calvin is no scarlet letter. That's a rivalry game. I'm not going to consider it much in my poll. Anything can happen in games like that.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 08, 2007, 09:24:18 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 08, 2007, 09:22:52 AM

I know it's a rivalry game, but Calvin just isn't good this year.  I was letting this one be the tiebreaker (1st win over Calvin was big, but the second was close).  The schedule is just so bad this year; it's hard for me to give them much confidence.

Sorry, but that comment proves you do not understand this rivalry
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 08, 2007, 09:45:14 AM

I got rid of those posts.  It was a bit rash.  I get rivalries, even when one team is better than another.  It just seems a lot of people are talking Hope up so much that it created this giant talent disparity in my mind.  Hope and Calvin are probably, in actuality a lot closer in talent than I was thinking when I made that statement.

It might not apply in this instance, but it seems to me, even in rivalries, if one team is significantly better than the other, they should come out on top.  I guess more than anything this game affirms the idea in my mind that I've put Hope about where they belong.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on February 08, 2007, 10:26:37 AM
How does this Calvin schedule  compare with past years?  They're only a few seasons removed from a trip to Salem... so the "mediocre" schedule, if the same as past years doesn't appear to be hampering them as far as competition goes...

Now, I know there are a lot of factors involved in it... if the teams they're playing are having good seasons, then their schedule would at least appear tougher, but...
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 08, 2007, 10:31:38 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 08, 2007, 09:45:14 AM

I got rid of those posts.  It was a bit rash.  I get rivalries, even when one team is better than another.  It just seems a lot of people are talking Hope up so much that it created this giant talent disparity in my mind.  Hope and Calvin are probably, in actuality a lot closer in talent than I was thinking when I made that statement.

It might not apply in this instance, but it seems to me, even in rivalries, if one team is significantly better than the other, they should come out on top.  I guess more than anything this game affirms the idea in my mind that I've put Hope about where they belong.

I think the talent on Hope and Calvin is very similar. Hope's bench might be a little deeper but that is about it. The pre-season coaches poll actually favored Calvin to win the MIAA this year, not Hope. Calvin for some reason just seemed to play most of this year without a sense of urgency and lost some games that they have not lost in years past. In the last two weeks it seems the Calvin team has turned it around and I think they could easily run the table, including the MIAA tourney and an automatic bid to the NCAA. I certainly hope I am wrong but it would not surprise me at all.

PS I hate myself for saying nice things about Calvin like that.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 08, 2007, 11:08:12 AM
Personally, I think Calvin is underachieving this year.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 08, 2007, 11:18:22 AM
Quote from: smedindy on February 08, 2007, 11:08:12 AM
Personally, I think Calvin is underachieving this year.

On the surface that seems true..........I've seen them in person 4 times and have only seen them play once with any desire.  They had a number of new faces replace old faces,  I think alot more was expected of the younger players and its taken longer than expected to get them to play within their system.

Anyone who has seen Adrian and Tri-State would be completely baffled that Calvin could lose to those opponents. 

Their other 6 losses have come to Hope (2), Carthage, Wheaton, UW-LaCrosse and Wooster.  All have spent significant time in the top 25.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 08, 2007, 07:03:19 PM
Quote from: sac on February 08, 2007, 11:18:22 AM
Anyone who has seen Adrian and Tri-State would be completely baffled that Calvin could lose to those opponents. 

Their other 6 losses have come to Hope (2), Carthage, Wheaton, UW-LaCrosse and Wooster.  All have spent significant time in the top 25.

Just like a very good La Crosse team losing to River Falls and Eau Claire.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: formerbant10 on February 11, 2007, 11:41:00 PM
Quote from: formerbant10 on February 06, 2007, 12:37:32 AM
I'll show one of my cards.  I had Trinity at 16.

Looks like that wasn't as bad a choice as most would think.  I might even have to move them up a slot or two on this week's poll.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 11, 2007, 11:51:05 PM
Mine is in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 12, 2007, 12:11:13 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 11, 2007, 11:51:05 PM
Mine is in.

And tabulated.  Now we just need 8 or 9 more!

After all the defeats, I'm amazed that you and I had the same top 13 (not all in the same place, of course!), and 24 of the same 25 (I didn't include your #25, you didn't include my #19).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 12, 2007, 12:22:16 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 12, 2007, 12:11:13 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 11, 2007, 11:51:05 PM
Mine is in.

And tabulated.  Now we just need 8 or 9 more!

After all the defeats, I'm amazed that you and I had the same top 13 (not all in the same place, of course!), and 24 of the same 25 (I didn't include your #25, you didn't include my #19).
Yeah, I can see that.  :-\

I don't know where you had my #20, but I felt that it was finally time.

Thanks for compiling this.  I really enjoy the Posters' Poll.  :)

(Baseball is coming soon!)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 12, 2007, 12:35:18 AM
Also in....

I was happy a couple teams lost, I wasn't totally comfy with their ratings in the first place.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 12, 2007, 08:52:25 AM
In!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 12, 2007, 09:18:24 AM
Quote from: David Collinge on February 11, 2007, 04:54:00 PM
Top 25 Schedule and Scores, Feb. 5-11 (FINAL):      

#   1   Amherst (23-1) lost at Trinity (CT) 62-59
#   2   UW-Stevens Point (20-2) won at UW-Whitewater 83-80 and def. UW-Stout 73-72
#   3   St. Thomas (21-3) won at Augsburg 80-75 (2 OT), lost at Gustavus Adolphus 80-74 (OT), and def. Concordia-Moorhead 77-57
#   4   Virginia Wesleyan (21-3) def. Eastern Mennonite 87-60 and won at Randolph-Macon 77-69
#   5   Wooster (20-3) def. Hiram 90-73 and won at Wabash 68-63
#   6   Hope (19-3) won at Albion 78-71, lost to Calvin 77-71, and def. Adrian 84-71
#   7   Wittenberg (20-3) def. Ohio Wesleyan 71-64 and def. Hiram 78-41
#   8   UW-Oshkosh (19-4) won at UW-Eau Claire 77-54
#   9   Mississippi College (20-2) def. Louisiana College 88-52 and def. U. of the Ozarks 89-63
#   10   Augustana (19-4) def. #25 Wheaton (IL) 63-60 and def. Millikin 71-59
#   11   Washington U. (18-3) def. Emory 74-62 and def. Case Western Reserve 86-65
#   12   Elmhurst (18-4) def. #15 Carthage 81-59 and def. North Park 83-80
#   13   Whitworth (20-3) lost at #18 Puget Sound 95-90 (OT) and won at Pacific Lutheran 65-63
#   14   Occidental (15-5) lost at Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 68-51 and def. Pomona-Pitzer 76-59
#   15   Carthage (14-8) lost at #12 Elmhurst 81-59 and lost to North Central 62-60
#   16   NYU (17-5) lost to Rochester 58-53 and def. Carnegie Mellon 78-57
#   17   Johns Hopkins (20-3) lost to McDaniel 70-68 and def. Ursinus 74-68
#   18   Puget Sound (17-5) def. #13 Whitworth 95-90 (OT) and lost to Whitman 106-99
#   19   Ohio Northern (17-6) def. Wilmington 75-53 and lost at Capital 74-70
#   20   Worcester Polytech (19-2) def. Mass.-Boston 89-67 and def. MIT 68-47
#   21   Aurora (21-2) def. Edgewood 90-62 and won at Dominican 83-80 (OT)
#   22   UW-La Crosse (15-7) def. UW-Platteville 54-32
#   23   Chicago (18-4) def. Case Western Reserve 77-73 and def. Emory 89-71
#   24   Guilford (19-3) def. Hampden-Sydney 86-72, won at Bridgewater (VA) 74-52, and won at Eastern Mennonite 84-75
#   25   Wheaton (IL) (15-7) lost at #10 Augustana 63-60 and won at Illinois Wesleyan 93-84

Collectively 38-12 overall and 35-9 against unranked teams.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 12, 2007, 09:47:30 AM

Mine's in.  Surprisingly, wasn't that hard.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Spencer Beaty on February 12, 2007, 09:11:47 PM
What do you think should be the affect of losses to NAIA of
d2 teams?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 12, 2007, 09:15:28 PM
Quote from: Spencer Beaty on February 12, 2007, 09:11:47 PM
What do you think should be the affect of losses to NAIA of
d2 teams?

While they are totally irrelevant for tournament selection, I see no reason to ignore ANY available evidence for ranking purposes.  And on a more positive note, I fully weigh WINS against non-d3 teams too! ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 12, 2007, 09:24:48 PM
8 ballots in, and the real poll has been released.  I'm still hoping to hear from PS and Hoaf, so I'll hold off another hour or so.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on February 12, 2007, 10:41:09 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 12, 2007, 09:24:48 PM
8 ballots in, and the real poll has been released.  I'm still hoping to hear from PS and Hoaf, so I'll hold off another hour or so.

In progres... sorry, went shopping with the Mrs. after work... I was trying to get a bargain and lost track of time!!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on February 12, 2007, 11:03:03 PM
IN
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 13, 2007, 12:11:13 AM
And tabulated.  Just waiting on Hoaf.

About 15 minutes 'til I give up and type it up anyway.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 13, 2007, 01:15:32 AM
POSTERS' POLL, games through 2-11-07:

1.  UWSP   224 (8-1s and a 2)
2.  Amherst  208 (1,2,2,2,2,2,4,4,5)
3.  Va Wes   207 (2,2,2,3,3,3,3,4,5)
4.  Wooster  204 (2,3,3,3,3,4,4,4,4)
5.  Miss Col  173 (3,5,5,6,8,8,8,9,9)
6.  UW-Osh  169 (4,6,6,6,7,8,8,10,10)
7.  Witt       168 (5,5,5,5,6,7,10,11,12)
8.  Augie     159 (5,6,6,6,7,10,10,10,15)
9.  St. Tom  154 (6,7,7,8,8,9,9,10,14)
10 Hope     140 (7,7,7,7,9,9,11,13,24)
11 WashU   139 (8,9,9,10,11,12,12,12,12)
12 Elmhurst  135 (8,9,11,11,11,11,11,12,15)
13 Whitworth  106 (10,12,13,13,14,14,16,18,18)
14 Chicago   84 (12,14,15,15,15,16,17,20,-)
15 Aurora    82 (13,13,14,14,15,18,21,22,22)
16 UW-LaX  63 (13,13,13,16,19,19,-,-,-)
t17 Guilford  60 (15,17,18,18,19,20,21,22,24)
t17 WPI      60 (14,16,17,17,19,21,21,23,-)
19 UPS       58 (14,15,18,18,19,21,22,23,-)
20 MHB      54 (11,13,18,20,20,22,24,-,-)
21 NYU      48 (15,16,17,19,21,22,24,-,-)
22 Trinity(CT)  44 (14,18,19,20,20,21,-,-,-)
23 JHU      27 (17,19,20,21,-,-,-,-,-)
t24 Carthage  24 (16,16,24,25,25,-,-,-,-)
t24 ONU         24 (17,19,23,23,24,-,-,-,-)
t24 Wheaton  24 (12,22,23,24,25,-,-,-,-)

(27) Oxy   21 (16,17,25,25 --)
(28) JCU   16 (20,20,23,25, --)
(29) St. John's  10 (16, --)
(30) Brandeis   9 (17, --)
(31) Lake Erie  8 (22,23,25,--)
(t32) DePauw  5 (22,25,--)
(t32) Loras     5 (21,--)
(t34) Capital  3 (23,--)
(t34) RIC      3 (23,--)
(t36) Alvernia  2 (24,--)
(t36) Salem St 2 (24,--)
(38) Brockport  1 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 13, 2007, 11:10:30 AM

Not a bad poll.  I'm finding myself drifting to the extremes in the voting again, but I had 23 of the 26 in and only two of my schools had me as their only supporter.


And to alleviate any wonder.  I was the one who kept Amherst as #1.  I saw nothing this week that would lead me to dropping them.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 13, 2007, 12:06:27 PM
A good poll. I find the ranking of Hope particularly fascinating though and not just as a Hope fan. 9 votes with 8 of them at 13 or higher but one poster had them at 24!!! I just wonder if there is any chance that voter would be willing to give an explanation? No other team in the rankings had such an extreme outlier so I find it curious. Mainly curious as to the reasoning. Not trying to create a fight.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 13, 2007, 12:21:06 PM
Quote from: DCHopeNut on February 13, 2007, 12:06:27 PM
A good poll. I find the ranking of Hope particularly fascinating though and not just as a Hope fan. 9 votes with 8 of them at 13 or higher but one poster had them at 24!!! I just wonder if there is any chance that voter would be willing to give an explanation? No other team in the rankings had such an extreme outlier so I find it curious. Mainly curious as to the reasoning. Not trying to create a fight.

Check previous pages - that would be Hoops Fan and he's already explained his reservations about Hope (I don't identify votes of individual posters, but he has already self-identified).

Actually, several other teams have outliers just about as extreme (whether higher or lower) - this seems to be expecially the case with the baffling UAA (see Chicago, NYU, and Brandeis) and CCIW (see Wheaton and Carthage) teams.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 13, 2007, 12:30:44 PM


Yeah.  Just scroll back a ways on the board.  I went through my reservations.  Basically, I'm trying not to vote them up just because of their reputation.  They're schedule this year is much weaker than it has been the past few and I'm not yet convinced of their top status.  I suspect they'll finish around 20 on my poll.  That seems to be where they fit best.  I dropped them a little more than I would have liked, but the way my poll worked out, some of the bottom teams deserved to rise a little.  I think it will normalize by tournament time, although I doubt they'll get higher than 18 or so on my poll.  I'm just not sold.  They'll have to prove themselves to me in the NCAAs.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 13, 2007, 12:32:44 PM
I have 2 of the 3 outliers of UAA teams and my 3rd was 2nd highest.

All of the sudden this week I ended up being the outlier on about 5 teams, after being snuglie in the middle of every team for about 3 weeks.  Oh well.

I felt better about this poll than last weeks, though.

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 13, 2007, 12:40:08 PM

I have the high (or tied for the high) vote on seven schools (two of those being Capital and Brandeis, for whom I was the only vote).  I also had the low (or tied for the low) on four.

I'm glad some people had Trinity so high on their ballots.  That team is very good, but needed this game against Amherst to prove it.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: formerbant10 on February 13, 2007, 01:44:45 PM
I'm sure some voters were a little thrown off by the Bowdoin loss.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 14, 2007, 12:19:16 PM
I think the only one that I'm out of step with is Loras. But you know, I am the Loras, I speak for the trees (heh...).

Loras is #24 in Massey using MOV and #26 SOS, so they're quality.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 14, 2007, 12:23:15 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 14, 2007, 12:19:16 PM
I am the Loras, I speak for the trees (heh...).

I've been saving that one for months now!!  But yeah, they're always near the top of my also rans list.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 14, 2007, 03:56:55 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 13, 2007, 12:30:44 PM


Yeah.  Just scroll back a ways on the board.  I went through my reservations.  Basically, I'm trying not to vote them up just because of their reputation.  They're schedule this year is much weaker than it has been the past few and I'm not yet convinced of their top status.  I suspect they'll finish around 20 on my poll.  That seems to be where they fit best.  I dropped them a little more than I would have liked, but the way my poll worked out, some of the bottom teams deserved to rise a little.  I think it will normalize by tournament time, although I doubt they'll get higher than 18 or so on my poll.  I'm just not sold.  They'll have to prove themselves to me in the NCAAs.

Thanks for your response, I scrolled back as well to read through it. Although I think Hope is better than #24 in the country myself I understand your reservations and can't argue with your decision and logic.  I think one thing that can make Hope a threat come tourney time is that the NCAA can be dominated by guards and Hope has a great group of guards who shoot the ball well, distribute, and play defense (usually). That said if there shots are off Hope does not have the inside presence to make up for a bad night from the outside.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 18, 2007, 10:09:34 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on February 18, 2007, 02:19:03 PM
Top 25 At-a-Glance, Week of Feb. 12-18 (FINAL)

#   1   UW-Stevens Point (22-2) def. UW-Platteville 69-58 and won at UW-Superior 103-64
#   2   Virginia Wesleyan (22-3) def. Lynchburg 90-73
#   3   Amherst (24-1) def. Bates 72-68 (NESCAC quarterfinal)
#   4   Wooster (22-3) won at Kenyon 87-62 and def. Ohio Wesleyan 95-89
#   5   UW-Oshkosh (20-5) lost at UW-Whitewater 88-71 and won at UW-Platteville 67-51
#   6   Wittenberg (21-4) def. Wabash 82-59 and lost at Allegheny 62-57
#   7   Mississippi College (22-2) won at UT-Dallas 70-67 and won at UT-Tyler 61-37
#   8   St. Thomas (22-3) def. St. John's 74-59
#   9   Augustana (20-5) won at Illinois Wesleyan 80-77 and lost to North Central 85-81
#   10   Hope (21-3) won at Alma 88-62 and won at Tri-State 78-59
#   11   Washington U. (19-4) won at Carnegie Mellon 94-73 and lost at Rochester 66-61
#   12   Elmhurst (19-5) lost at North Central 89-74 and def. #25 Wheaton (IL) 80-74
#   13   Worcester Polytech (21-2) def. Wheaton (MA) 73-57 and won at Coast Guard 67-57
#   14   Chicago (20-4) won at Rochester 76-73 and won at Carnegie Mellon 82-75
#   15   Aurora (23-2) def. Concordia (IL) 109-86 and won at Rockford 97-77
#   16   Whitworth (22-3) won at Whitman 84-72 and def. Willamette 81-66
#   17   Guilford (21-3) def. Washington & Lee 95-77 and won at Emory & Henry 108-107
#   18   UW-La Crosse (17-7) def. UW-River Falls 80-63 and won at UW-Stout 69-58
#   19   Occidental (17-5) def. Cal Lutheran 41-40 and won at Redlands 116-106
#   20   NYU (19-5) won at Case Western Reserve 65-47 and won at Emory 69-66
#   21   Puget Sound (18-6) lost at Lewis & Clark 98-86 and won at Linfield 83-76
#   22   Trinity (CT) (21-3) def. Bowdoin 77-67 (NESCAC quarterfinal)
#   23   Mary Hardin-Baylor (21-4) lost at McMurry 80-76 (OT) and won at Hardin-Simmons 75-72
#   24   Johns Hopkins (21-4) lost at Gettysburg 65-58 and def. Franklin & Marshall 84-68
#   25   Wheaton (IL) (16-8) def. Millikin 83-72 and lost at #12 Elmhurst 80-74
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 18, 2007, 11:09:55 PM
Mine is in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 19, 2007, 11:26:27 AM
In. I struggled with 20-25.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 19, 2007, 11:29:31 AM
Quote from: smedindy on February 19, 2007, 11:26:27 AM
In. I struggled with 20-25.

No doubt!  I'm trying some new teams this week since previous teams I've been hanging onto have finally annoyed me enough by losing enough to drop off my list.

OAC = most infuriating conference  :P
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 19, 2007, 11:36:38 AM

I had this odd occurrence that from #6 through #12 all but one of the teams on my list lost.  so I didn't change a whole lot.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 19, 2007, 06:59:26 PM
We've been stuck on 7 ballots for some time now - Hoaf?  GS?  PS?  (FDF, you're still invited if you're able.)

Only one completely new team this week so far, but several that have gotten only slight support before.  Some VERY close races, so additional voters CAN make a difference!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on February 19, 2007, 07:17:03 PM
The earliest I could get mine is is 8:00 Central... Sorry I'm always the late one...!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 19, 2007, 07:20:21 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on February 19, 2007, 07:17:03 PM
The earliest I could get mine is is 8:00 Central... Sorry I'm always the late one...!

That'll work.  I was going to assure you that you're not always 'the late one', but then I checked and saw you are ALMOST always the last!  (If it's a comfort, think about "saving the best..." ;D)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 19, 2007, 09:08:17 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on February 19, 2007, 07:17:03 PM
The earliest I could get mine is is 8:00 Central... Sorry I'm always the late one...!

I just appreciate that you are reliable and consistent.  Waiting for your ballot is worth it.  :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on February 19, 2007, 09:10:29 PM
And I'm in.  It remarkably didn't change a whole lot from last week... at least in the top 20.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 19, 2007, 09:34:21 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 19, 2007, 06:59:26 PM
We've been stuck on 7 ballots for some time now - Hoaf?  GS?  PS?  (FDF, you're still invited if you're able.)

Only one completely new team this week so far, but several that have gotten only slight support before.  Some VERY close races, so additional voters CAN make a difference!

I'm sure that's me...and no one will agree with it.  ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on February 19, 2007, 09:51:22 PM
Sorry for muddling things up again Ypsi...  You were right, the contiguous 25 was the real 25, the others were just notes... actually, just picks from last week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 19, 2007, 09:58:57 PM
Quote from: Old School on February 19, 2007, 09:34:21 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 19, 2007, 06:59:26 PM
We've been stuck on 7 ballots for some time now - Hoaf?  GS?  PS?  (FDF, you're still invited if you're able.)

Only one completely new team this week so far, but several that have gotten only slight support before.  Some VERY close races, so additional voters CAN make a difference!

I'm sure that's me...and no one will agree with it.  ;D

Actually, one other voter had Grinnell a slot higher than you earlier - and I ALMOST got them in (somewhere between 26th and 28th).

I'm disappointed with only eight ballots, but I guess I'll start entering it now.  Unless I'm interrupted (likely!) or another ballot or two comes in (I hope!), results should be up before eleven.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 19, 2007, 10:43:59 PM
POSTERS' POLL (thru games of 2-18):

1.  UWSP  200 (unanimous)
2.  Va Wes  186 (2,2,2,3,3,3,3,4)
3.  Amherst  184 (2,2,2,2,4,4,4,4)
4.  Wooster  180 (2.3,3,3,4,4,4,5)
5.  Miss Col  167 (3,5,5,5,5,5,6,7)
6.  St. Thomas  152 (5,5,6,7,7,7,7,12)
7.  UW-Osh  136 (6,7,8,8,9,11,11,12)
8.  Hope    131 (6,6,6,7,7,9,12,24)
9.  Augustana  130 (6,6,8,8,10,10,12,18)
10  Wittenberg  122 (8,8,9,9,9,10,15,18)
11  Wash U   110 (8,10,11,12,13,13,14.17)
12  Chicago   105 (9,10,11,14,15,15,18)
13  Whitworth  103 (9,10,11,14,14,15,16,16)
14  Elmhurst   100 (9,11,12,13,13,13,17,20)
15  Aurora     90 (8,10,11,14,16,18,19,22)
16  WPI      76 (12,12,13,16,17,18,18,-)
17  Guilford  65 (14,15,15,17,18,19,19.-)
18  Trinity CT  60 (10,17,17,17,18,21,22,-)
19  UW-LaX   56 (13,14,15,16,16,-,-,-)
20  NYU      43 (15,16,19,20,22,22,25,-)
21  Occidental  34 (17,19,20,21,23,23,25,-)
22  Wheaton   27 (13,20,21,23,-,-,-,-)
23  UMHB     24 (19,20,21,21,25,-,-,-)
24  Puget Sound  19 (20,21,21,23,-,-,-,-)
25  RIC      16 (20,21,23,24,-,-,-,-)

26  ONU    14 (16,24,24 --)
27  Brandeis  12 (14 --)
28  Carthage  11 (19,22 --)
t29 Brockport  10 (20,22 --)
t29 Loras     10 (19,23 --)
31  DePauw  7 (22,24,25 --)
t32 Centre  4 (24,25,25 --)
t32 JHU     4 (22 --)
t34 Grinnell  3 (24,25 --)
t34 JCU     3 (23 --)
t34 Salem St.  3 (23 --)
37  Lake Erie  2 (24 --)
38  N. Central  1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pg04 on February 19, 2007, 10:46:32 PM
Oh I like it, Brockport receiving votes on the posters poll! 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 19, 2007, 10:58:46 PM
pgo4,

This is the fourth (of 7) week they have - they even tied for 25th in the first poll.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pg04 on February 19, 2007, 11:26:21 PM
Oh that's even better...this is the first week I've noticed the poll lol.   :-[   Is there a similiar thing for the football board and how are he pollsters decided on  :P (Question city!)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 20, 2007, 12:41:58 AM
Please be sure to understand we are in no way competing with the d3hoops.com poll - that is the 'gold standard' in polling.  We're just a group of posters who want to stick in our two cents - anyone who follows the national scene is welcome to join in (though I normally don't allow new voters after the second week of polling, to assure some continuity).  To maintain some level of credibility, I reserve the right to ignore any ballots which are obvious 'home cooking' (though I've so far never exercised that right - voters seem if anything to bend over backwards to avoid conference or regional bias).

My original intent was to stimulate conversation by comparison with the 'real' poll - why do we see 'x' as higher (or lower) than they do?  That hasn't really happened, but there have been some interesting conversations within the poll itself.  One on-going example is Hope - most of us have them in the top 10, one hold-out didn't rank them at all until recently, and still has them 24th.  But he makes an interesting case for his vote.  This week 5 of us have UW-LaCrosse in the midteens, while 3 left them out entirely - should the strength of schedule and quality of wins outweigh the fact that they have a LOT of losses?  Obviously, our views differ!  The poll has also brought our attention to some teams that otherwise may have been overlooked - one voter will 'champion' them, and, if they keep winning they WILL get respect eventually.

So far as I know, no one is doing a similar poll in football.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pg04 on February 20, 2007, 12:56:13 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 20, 2007, 12:41:58 AM
Please be sure to understand we are in no way competing with the d3hoops.com poll - that is the 'gold standard' in polling.  We're just a group of posters who want to stick in our two cents - anyone who follows the national scene is welcome to join in (though I normally don't allow new voters after the second week of polling, to assure some continuity).  To maintain some level of credibility, I reserve the right to ignore any ballots which are obvious 'home cooking' (though I've so far never exercised that right - voters seem if anything to bend over backwards to avoid conference or regional bias).

My original intent was to stimulate conversation by comparison with the 'real' poll - why do we see 'x' as higher (or lower) than they do?  That hasn't really happened, but there have been some interesting conversations within the poll itself.  One on-going example is Hope - most of us have them in the top 10, one hold-out didn't rank them at all until recently, and still has them 24th.  But he makes an interesting case for his vote.  This week 5 of us have UW-LaCrosse in the midteens, while 3 left them out entirely - should the strength of schedule and quality of wins outweigh the fact that they have a LOT of losses?  Obviously, our views differ!  The poll has also brought our attention to some teams that otherwise may have been overlooked - one voter will 'champion' them, and, if they keep winning they WILL get respect eventually.

So far as I know, no one is doing a similar poll in football.

Thanks for the response.... I wasn't assuming you were competing (Pat and the gurus have all the inside info  ;)) I just think it's a good idea, and this is the first I explored this area.  If it isn't done in this way on the football boards I may consider doing something of the kind. 

Keep up the good work y'all
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 20, 2007, 06:53:21 AM
I want to take this opportunity to thank Mr Ypsi for his conducting the Posters' Poll for another year.

I think that the Posters' Poll has helped the serious fan to look behind the scenes in a way that does not compromise the integrity of Pat's Top 25.  The issues that we are debating are similar to the issues in Pat's.

This week, I threw in Wheaton, John Carroll and Lake Erie.  The Wheaton vote is to acknowledge the perennial strength of the CCIW. My vote for John Carroll is my acknowledging that the OAC standard-bearer is almost always Top 25 calibre.  I give Lake Erie a chance, because they have persisted with the schedule that they have mastered.  After considering whom they beat in the sub-regionals, I may vote them much higher next week.

My Top 25 are in the Top 30.   I left off ONU and UPS, because I got tired of their losses.  I have not given DePauw enough notice, altho' I wouldn't have ignored their winning the SCAC tourney next weekend.

My vote next week will acknowledge the conference tourneys.  I may consider 4-6 teams that are not on this week's ballot, because I believe that there is only about an "inch worth" of distance between #22 and #26 or even #31.  ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 20, 2007, 07:49:38 AM
Who is this DePauw you speak of???  ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 20, 2007, 08:50:53 AM
Quote from: smedindy on February 20, 2007, 07:49:38 AM
Who is this DePauw you speak of???  ;D

Ah!

Quote...I do not know this man of whom you speak!  Mark 14:71

And on Shrove Tuesday at that!  ;)

+1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 21, 2007, 01:34:50 PM
I finally had it with Puget Sound and Johns Hopkins, I've been oversold on PS for awhile, at one time I was their highest voter.  But they've been slipping on my ballot for awhile I believe.

I've been trying hard for 3 weeks now to get an OAC team in the poll, but my best candidates keep losing right before I want to vote them in.......arrggghhhh!  So I have a spot reserved for the OAC tournament champ next Sunday.

My new teams I tried this week............Occidental (not really new but I forgot to vote them in a couple weeks ago and on the advice of my Western D3 source they should be ranked)  Brockport St. (why not or why) and Centre.   But the last two are really hanging by a thread.   LaCrosse and Wheaton are knocking on that door.

I see a couple others joined the DePauw bandwagon.  Really anyone from 20-25 is pretty tenuous on my ballot.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 22, 2007, 04:22:03 PM
Do to a clerical error on my part........I will only be ranking 24 teams next week.  Apparently this is what I should have been doing all along. ::)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 22, 2007, 04:24:36 PM
Quote from: sac on February 22, 2007, 04:22:03 PM
Do to a clerical error on my part........I will only be ranking 24 teams next week.  Apparently this is what I should have been doing all along. ::)

Sorry, sac, I don't count ballots from people who have the intelligence to work for the NCAA! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: kiltedbryan on February 22, 2007, 11:11:19 PM
Quote from: sac on February 22, 2007, 04:22:03 PM
Do to a clerical error on my part........I will only be ranking 24 teams next week.  Apparently this is what I should have been doing all along. ::)

Best joke I've seen anywhere on the board about this one, sac!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 26, 2007, 11:54:19 AM
Are we doing a poll? Or is everyone still on selection hangover?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 26, 2007, 11:59:25 AM
I'm willing
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 26, 2007, 12:02:59 PM

I'm up if you'll give me some time this afternoon.

By the way, WPI sucks and getting beat by the last place team in the conference tournament should have been enough to prove it.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 26, 2007, 12:05:32 PM
Sorry, meant to post earlier.  There will be a poll, but with all the selection and bracketing hullabaloo, I'll make no serious attempt to get it out before Tuesday evening.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 26, 2007, 12:07:28 PM
Thanks, and the next poll will after the final four?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 26, 2007, 12:16:00 PM
Yes.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 26, 2007, 12:17:23 PM
Hoops Fan - In every level of hoops, there are always cases where the dregs rise up and steal an auto bid.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 26, 2007, 02:25:28 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 26, 2007, 12:17:23 PM
Hoops Fan - In every level of hoops, there are always cases where the dregs rise up and steal an auto bid.

WPI is just not that good.  I wish someone would believe me.  I've been saying it all year.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 26, 2007, 02:30:16 PM
That seems to be a common refrain from you, though, on certain teams.

My power rankings had them at #20 before the tourneys. Massey had them at 18, so it seemed pretty well in line. The numbers just add up right, even with a mediocre conference.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 26, 2007, 02:36:34 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on February 24, 2007, 09:24:20 PM
Top 25 At-a-Glance, Week of Feb. 19-25 (FINAL)

#   1   UW-Stevens Point (25-2) def. UW-Eau Claire 89-55 (WIAC quarterfinal); def. UW-Whitewater 94-69 (WIAC semifinal); def. #18 UW-La Crosse 83-68 (WIAC final)
#   2   Virginia Wesleyan (23-4) def. Washington & Lee 82-48 (ODAC qtr.); lost to Hampden-Sydney 70-67 (ODAC semifinal) (both games at Salem, VA)
#   3   Amherst (25-2) def. Colby 82-55 (NESCAC semifinal); lost to Williams 70-69 (NESCAC final)
#   4   Wooster (25-3) def. Earlham 94-76 (NCAC quarterfinal); def. Wabash 92-80 (NCAC semifinal); def. Ohio Wesleyan 86-51 (NCAC final)
#   5   Mississippi College (25-2) def. Concordia-Austin 86-62 (ASC quarterfinal); def. McMurry 66-56 (ASC semifinal); de. Hardin-Simmons 77-64 (ASC final)
#   6   St. Thomas (24-3) def. St. Olaf 77-61 (MIAC semifinal); def. St. John's 75-49 (MIAC final)
#   7   UW-Oshkosh (21-6) def. UW-River Falls 83-65 (WIAC quarterfinal); lost at #18 UW-La Crosse 66-61 (WIAC semifinal)
#   8   Hope (23-4) def. Alma 89-49 (MIAA quarterfinal); def. Adrian 77-61 (MIAA semifinal); lost to Calvin 78-76 (MIAA final)
#   9   Augustana (22-5) def. North Central 74-67 (CCIW semifinal); def. #14 Elmhurst 78-70 (CCIW final)
#   10   Wittenberg (22-5) def. Hiram 72-49 (NCAC quarterfinal); lost to Ohio Wesleyan 57-52 at Wooster, OH (NCAC semifinal)
#   11   Chicago (20-5) lost at #12 Washington U. 79-74
#   12   Washington U. (20-4) def. #11 Chicago 79-74
#   13   Worcester Polytech (22-3) def. MIT 66-49 (NEWMAC semifinal); lost to Coast Guard 71-66 (MEWMAC final)
#   14   Elmhurst (21-6) won at Millikin 79-63; def. Wheaton (IL) 85-82 at Rock Island, IL (CCIW semifinal); lost at #9 Augustana 78-70 (CCIW final)
#   15   Aurora (25-2) def. Lakeland 86-72 (NATHCON semifinal); def. Edgewood 85-69 (NATHCON final)
#   16   Whitworth (23-3) def. Lewis & Clark 69-62 (NWC championship)
#   17   Guilford (21-4) lost to Bridgewater (VA) 88-78 at Salem, VA (ODAC quarterfinal)
#   18   UW-La Crosse (19-8) def. UW-Stout 63-58 (WIAC quarterfinal); def #7 UW-Oshkosh 66-61 (WIAC semifinal); lost at #1 UW-Stevens Point 83-68 (WIAC final)
#   19   Occidental (19-5) def. La Verne 85-54 and won at Whittier 63-61 (2 OT)
#   20   Trinity (CT) (21-4) lost to Williams 91-89 at Amherst (NESCAC semifinal)
#   21   NYU (19-6) lost to Brandeis 76-67
#   22   DePauw (22-5) def. Sewanee 84-72 at Memphis (SCAC qtr.); lost to Trinity (TX) 77-72 at Memphis (SCAC semifinal)
#   23   Puget Sound (18-7) lost at Lewis & Clark 66-60 (NWC semifinal)
#   24   Ohio Northern (19-7) lost to Otterbein 52-51 (OAC quarterfinals)
#   25   Mary Hardin-Baylor (22-5) def. Louisiana Coll. 96-86 in Clinton, MS (ASC qtr.); lost Hardin-Simmons 71-67 in Clinton, MS (ASC semifinal)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 26, 2007, 02:51:44 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 26, 2007, 02:25:28 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 26, 2007, 12:17:23 PM
Hoops Fan - In every level of hoops, there are always cases where the dregs rise up and steal an auto bid.

WPI is just not that good.  I wish someone would believe me.  I've been saying it all year.

Nor is Ryan Cain. Sounds like a personal thing. I saw them in person and I don't have a single problem with them at 20.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 26, 2007, 03:04:25 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 26, 2007, 02:51:44 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 26, 2007, 02:25:28 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 26, 2007, 12:17:23 PM
Hoops Fan - In every level of hoops, there are always cases where the dregs rise up and steal an auto bid.

WPI is just not that good.  I wish someone would believe me.  I've been saying it all year.

Nor is Ryan Cain. Sounds like a personal thing. I saw them in person and I don't have a single problem with them at 20.

Cain's a good player, I just thought first team was a stretch.  WPI is not as good as they were last year and they didn't measure up last year.  I'm not saying ranking them near the bottom is stupid.  There is certainly merit for it.  I'm just saying they aren't as good as people give them credit for.  If you want a NE team, I'd take RIC or Keene State or even Brandeis ahead of them.  That's all.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 26, 2007, 10:07:08 PM
Mine's in.  Thanks for hosting this!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 27, 2007, 05:44:16 PM
Hoping to get out the last regular-season poll this evening - we've been stuck on 4 ballots since yesterday.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: formerbant10 on February 27, 2007, 10:43:54 PM
Sorry Ypsi, spent quite a bit of time in airports sans laptop.  Didn't have the time for this week, but am still willing to do the final.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 27, 2007, 11:36:43 PM
Calling all voters - STILL only four ballots, but I'm too wiped to post it tonight anyway.  (It's been a very rough week - my 15-year-old was assaulted in school on Monday.  His assailant is in jail (on unrelated probation violation - at Joel's request we have, so far anyway, not pressed charges).  But his assailant's idiot friends THINK he's in jail because Joel was a 'snitch'; Joel is now too terrified to go to school.)

Enough of that.  Bottom line - there is still time to cast your ballot.  Otherwise, sometime tomorrow I'll decide whether it is even worth typing up a 4-person 'poll'!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: formerbant10 on February 28, 2007, 12:10:36 AM
Sorry to hear about your son.  That's completely outrageous, I hope that everything works out as it should.

I should be able to get one to you tomorrow before noon.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 28, 2007, 08:55:04 AM

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 27, 2007, 11:36:43 PM
But his assailant's idiot friends THINK he's in jail because Joel was a 'snitch'; Joel is now too terrified to go to school.)

You might consider purchasing each of them a standard English dictionary.  It seems awfully hard to be a snitch when you're a victim.  I'm pretty sure those two are mutually exclusive.

I pray everything works out.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 28, 2007, 09:25:10 AM
Well, Joel IS in school, and there are plenty of grown-ups (and kids) who are 'watching his back', so we're optimistic.

One of his teachers is the lacrosse coach; Joel's older brother was the LaX leading scorer and captain last year.  I toyed with the idea of spreading the rumor that the entire LaX team had Joel's back - I suspect that would deter even 'idiots'! ;D

Another ballot came in overnight, and formerbant promised above to get one in, so I'll probably get the poll out early this evening - still time for others!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 28, 2007, 07:52:24 PM
Final Regular Season Posters' Poll:

1.  UWSP  175 (unanimous)

2.  Wooster  165 (2,2,2,2,2,3,4)
3.  Miss Col  157 (2,3,3,3,4,5,5)

4.  St Thomas  147 (3,3,4,5,6,7,7)
t5  Augie   146 (3,4,4,5,6,7,7)
t5  Amherst  146 (2,4,5,5,6,7,7)
7.  Va Wes  142 (4,5,6,6,6,6,7)

8.  Wash U  117 (8,8,9,9,9,10,12)

9.  Whitworth  104 (8,10,10,11,12,13,14)
10  Oshkosh  102 (8,8,9,12,14,14,15)
11  Chicago  98 (9,10,11,11,12,15,16)
12  Elmhurst  97 (8,9,10,10,13,13,22)
13  Hope    91 (9,10,11,11,14,16,20)
14  Aurora  90 (8,11,11,13,16,16,17)

15  Wittenberg  72 (12,12,14,15,15,16,-)

t16  Occidental  54 (15,17,17,18,18,18,25)
t16  Trinity CT   54 (14,15,16,17,19,21,-)
18  Guilford   49 (13,19,19,19,19,20,24)
19  UW-LaX  48 (13,14,15,17,23,-,-)

20  RIC    35 (17,17,18,21,22,-,-)
21  WPI    32 (16,19,20,21,24,24,-)
22  Centre  23 (19,20,21,22,25,-,-)
23  Wheaton  21 (13,18 --)
24  Brandeis  14 (12 --)
25  NYU    12 (20,20 --)

(t26) Capital  11 (22,22,24,25 --)
(t26) Loras   11 (18,23 --)
(t28) Lake Erie  10 (22,23,23 --)
(t28) UMHB    10 (21,21 --)
(30)  JHU    9 (18,25 --)
(31)  DePauw  8 (21,23 --)
(32)  JCU    7 (22,24,25 --)
(33)  Brockport  6 (20 --)
(t34) Carthage  3 (23 --)
(t34) Maryville  3 (23 --)
(t36) NCC    2 (24 --)
(t36) Salem St  2 (24 --)
(t38) Ramapo  1
(t38) Rochester  1

Note: every ballot had the same top 7!  I've also spaced to show other big gaps in the voting.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 18, 2007, 03:18:58 PM
Mine is in, and it barely resembles my impressions before the tourney! :o :P :-\

Thanks, Mr Ypsi!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 18, 2007, 03:27:34 PM
I haven't received Ralph's yet, so this is NOT directed to him, nor is it an attempt to sway voters, but (if you vote on 'total body of work') I hope teams that didn't make the tourney, or were upset early, won't be totally forgotten!

There is obviously no rush on the final poll, but I hope to get it out by Tues or Wed.  ALL are invited, even those who were unable to participate in the previous couple of polls.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 18, 2007, 03:44:56 PM
Now it is!   :)

Before I hit the send button, I went back to the poll to double-check it.

I think that there is an incredible amount of parity this year.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: formerbant10 on March 18, 2007, 10:56:54 PM
I should be able to get it out to you tomorrow.  Was in Chicago this weekend and barely made it back due to the US Airways debacle. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 19, 2007, 09:31:41 AM

I'll work on it now.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 19, 2007, 09:54:19 AM

Mine's in.  I had this cabal of schools that didn't make the tourney from 12-15, so that kind of made it difficult to move people around.

Hopefully I adequately related the whole-body of work in light of their performance over the last couple of weeks.  I certainly believe I have the 25 best teams on the list.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on March 19, 2007, 09:56:26 PM
Oh, crap. Can I submit tomorrow??
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 19, 2007, 10:09:29 PM
Smed, Please do!

I think that the debate after the poll is worth the delay that one more ballot will give to the opinion of our collective votes.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 19, 2007, 10:38:37 PM
Since there are so far only 3 ballots in, I sure hope for more than ONE more!  I'm not planning to get it out before Wednesday evening at the earliest, and if it means more votes I'll even extend that.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 20, 2007, 08:44:18 AM

You should email some people.  After three weeks off, it's easy to forget.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on March 20, 2007, 12:30:44 PM
I'm in! It wasn't easy, but I'm in...
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on March 20, 2007, 12:30:57 PM
But the top 4 WAS easy!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 21, 2007, 02:47:39 PM
We're currently stuck on five ballots, with sac promising one later today.  Come on GS, OS, PS (and FDF, hoaf, and knightstalker - you're welcome too)!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 21, 2007, 11:29:08 PM
sac came through this afternoon, so we stand at six - I'll post tomorrow evening even if there are no more, but I sure hope to not finish off with our lowest turnout ever! :( :-[

Sixteen teams have been named on all six ballots (and rank 1-16).  A total of 35 teams have been named, six of them only once each, so overall there is pretty good agreement on the top 25, though some wide divergence on where.  Interestingly, no team has fewer than 3 points - i.e., nobody had a 24th or 25th pick end up being a solo 'outlier'.  (And the cut off currently for making the top 25 is high enough I'm pretty confident no solo outlier will make it - tops is one of two teams tied for 27th who was a favorite of only one voter.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 22, 2007, 08:51:01 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 21, 2007, 11:29:08 PM
I'm pretty confident no solo outlier will make it - tops is one of two teams tied for 27th who was a favorite of only one voter.


20 bucks says that's me.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 22, 2007, 12:39:03 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 22, 2007, 08:51:01 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 21, 2007, 11:29:08 PM
I'm pretty confident no solo outlier will make it - tops is one of two teams tied for 27th who was a favorite of only one voter.


20 bucks says that's me.

Oooh - easiest 20 bucks I ever made!  (Despite your pride in 'quirky' voting, you had NO solo outliers.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 22, 2007, 12:43:27 PM
Got a seventh ballot overnight from Greg (thanks!) - still hoping to hear from the 'Pointer Twins' :P, plus any others.  Either way, the poll will be released this evening.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 22, 2007, 12:57:32 PM

Man, I can't believe I've become such a conformist.  Perhaps I can claim that I'm still a rebel, but that everyone else has seen the light and joined me.

I know there's some semantic difficulties there, but we'll work through it later.  It's a long off-season.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 22, 2007, 03:54:07 PM
"Conformist" might be a bit of a stretch - of the 25 teams you named, you gave their highest vote to 9 and their lowest to 5 (and the only 'no vote' to one other)!  (Additionally, your vote tied for highest with two more [NOT counting Amherst, who was unanimously #1] and tied for lowest on one more - that's at or beyond the 'range' for 18 teams.  Your 'rebel' status seems safe!)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 22, 2007, 04:03:56 PM
in like flint
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 22, 2007, 04:23:13 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 22, 2007, 03:54:07 PM
Your 'rebel' status seems safe!

That's a relief.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 22, 2007, 06:07:24 PM
OS, I PMed you, but in case you see this first -

You double-listed RIC.  If I don't hear from you by 8 or so, I'll drop the second listing, move everyone else up one slot, and leave 25 blank, but I'll take YOUR correction if you're quick.

We've reached 8 voters.  I'll post around 8 or so, so there's still time for others!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: diehardfan on March 22, 2007, 06:27:14 PM
Are you referring to 8pm eastern time? If you post it a little later tonight I'll do one. :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 22, 2007, 06:40:13 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on March 22, 2007, 06:27:14 PM
Are you referring to 8pm eastern time? If you post it a little later tonight I'll do one. :)
Post one!  Please!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 22, 2007, 09:07:49 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on March 22, 2007, 06:27:14 PM
Are you referring to 8pm eastern time? If you post it a little later tonight I'll do one. :)

Thought I already posted this two hours ago, but ...

April, I'm a Michigander - of course I meant REAL time!  But, by now, it should be obvious that I'll hold off for you!  [One ballot is unlikely to affect MOST slots, but there are a few very tight races, so you (or someone else - hint!) could make a difference.]

OS, got your correction - thanks.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 22, 2007, 11:19:28 PM
April,

8pm EDT has of course long passed, but now so has 8pm PDT (and, in case you meant Korean time, 8pm Thursday was 17(?) hours ago!).

Ralph and I are waiting with bated breath for your ballot so I can post! :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 23, 2007, 12:29:11 AM
FINAL POSTERS' POLL, 2007 (to be updated if I ever hear from April, PS, et.al.):

1.   Amherst  200 (unanimous)
2.   Va Wes   190 (7-2s, 1-4)
3.   Wash U   182 (7-3s, 1-5)
4.   Wooster  175 (3,4,4,4,4,4,5,5)
5.   UWSP     167 (2,4,5,5,5,5,7,8)
6.   Guilford   153 (4,6,6,6,7,7,9,10)
7.   Hope      147 (5,6,6,6,6,7,9,16)

8.   Miss Col   124 (7,8,8,9,10,10,13,19)
9.   Whitworth  118 (7,9,11,11,11,12,12,17)
10. Brockport   110 (7,8,9,11,11,16,18,18)
11. St. Thomas 107 (8,10,12,13,13,14,15,15)
12. RIC          105 (8,10,10,12,12,15,17,19)
13. Augustana  104 (6,8,9,10,14,16,18,23)
14. Oshkosh     93 (7,8,15,15,16,16,19,19)
15. Carroll       89 (10,11,13,13,13,14,22,23)

16. Lincoln    76 (9,13,14,15,18,19,21,23)
17. Elmhurst  72 (9,11,12,15,20,21,22,-)

18. JCU       59 (11,12,17,19,20,21,23,-)
19. Chicago  55 (13,14,17,18,19,22,24,-)

20. Brandeis  38 (12,18,19,22,23,24,-,-)
21. LaCrosse  30 (14,16,21,24,25,-,-,-)
t22 SJF        28 (16,20,20,21,25,-,-,-)
t22 Witt       28 (17,17,18,24,-,-,-,-)
24. Keene St  27 (15,16,20,-,-,-,-,-)
25. Aurora    21 (17,20,23,24,25,-,-,-)

26. Stevens   18 (20,21,22,25,25,25,-,-)
27. Occidental 16 (14,22 --)
28. Wheaton  15 (13,24 --)
29. Centre    14 (21,21,24,24 --)
30. Trinity CT  10 (22,22,25,25 --)
31. DePauw    9 (17 --)
32. JHU         8 (18 --)
33. Lake Erie  6 (20 --)
t34 Catholic   3 (23 --)
t34 NYU        3 (23 --)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: diehardfan on March 23, 2007, 12:44:41 AM
lol.... sorry... As the dutiful maid of honor, I am currently swamped with the oh so fascinating task of designing my baby sister's wedding invitations.

"Can you make the picture a 1/4 in shorter" and "can you rotate it 1/4 of and inch" and "can you change it back to this font"

I've been doing this for at least three hours.... and that's after I gave her a draft version last weekend when I was home for the final four  :D ::)

It's a good thing I love her a lot. :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 23, 2007, 12:55:08 AM
Tomorrow (well, technically, much later today :P) I'll post my ballot with my reasoning.  I do NOT reveal other voter's ballots (unless specifically requested by the voter), but encourage others to reveal why they voted as they did.  Could be VERY interesting!

e.g., Have we all gone overboard (including me and d3hoops.com) on Guilford?  They won the most DRAMATIC game of the tourney, but (logically) to take 3OTs to down a team not in the previous top 25 should hurt more than it helps - comments?

e.g., Since the previous poll was voted on AFTER the tourney selections were announced, have the non-tourney teams been unfairly demoted?  I had Oshkosh as #8 last time (PP ranking, #10).  In light of tourney games I placed Augie and St. Thomas below them, Wash U and Hope above them - still #8 (PP ranking, #14).  Am I stubborn, or have other voters OVERreacted to tourney games?

It's a LO-O-ONG time 'til next season; I'd be fascinated to hear why voters (or even non-voters!) rank teams where they do.

April, just saw your post - excuse accepted!  But feel free to post your ballot anyway (or send it to me, I'll revise the poll and only the OCs among us will know YOUR votes!).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 23, 2007, 12:58:07 AM
I want to thank my colleagues and Mr Ypsi for the Poll.  It really added greatly to my understanding of D3 this season.

I must confess that my ballot seemed to be the most likely to "outlie" among the group.

I took a clean sheet of paper and tried to understand what had happened in the tourney.  I tried to look at how strong conferences were as they performed away from their home fan bases, and to treat this in a more D1 fashion, whatever that may be.

In the regular season, I was rarely more than 2 teams off, and almost picked the Top 21 unanimously each week.  With my clean sheet of paper, I tried to avoid the traditional "conventional wisdoms" of past performance and look at what had happened this year.

I want to thank Mr Ypsi for letting me review my first ballot.  I took the clean sheet of paper and submitted another ballot.  Here are the two.

QuoteVersion #1.

Final Poll:

1)   Amherst
2)   VWC
3)   WashStL
4)   Guilford
5)   Woo
6)   Brockport St
7)   Hope
8 )  RIC
9)   UWSP
10)  JCU
11)  Lincoln
12)  Miss Coll
13)  Carroll
14)  Whitworth
15)  Keene St
16)  St Johns
17)  SJF
18 )  Hampden-Sydney
19)  Stevens
20)  Tommies
21)  Augie
22)  Brandeis
23)  DPU
24)  Lake Erie
25)  Loras

Yes, this had some weaknesses and probably "mirrored" the brackets too much.  So I took another stab at it.


QuoteYeah, let me think about that.

The problem that I had is that Amherst (with whom I was un-impressed, especially since it took them so long to put away a Trinity TX team that McMurry defeated without our point guard) won the whole thing.  Part of this is that some home teams of great reputations lost and some lost badly.  

Secondly, when games on neutral floors were considered, these teams were not as strong as their fan bases would ask us to believe.

Thirdly, if previous strong conference ties have buoyed other teams, what happens when we get "non-strong" conference members playing well.

I hope we can continue this debate after the poll.  I want to get this in before Pat releases his, so to double-check my thought processes.

1)  Amherst
2)  VWC
3)  WashStL
4)  Guilford
5)  Woo
6)  Hope
7)  Brockport (bracket contained Roch UAA, SJF, Wms NESCAC; Takes Woo to OT on friendly-neutral court.)
8 )  UWSP --  bad home loss
9)  Lincoln--strong showing on unfriendly neutral floor (Showtime!)  Takes it out of Guilford for VWC's sake.
10)  Carroll -- 2 good road wins
11)  JCU -- 6 places below Woo
12)  Whitworth -- good road game being flown to St Louis
13)  Miss Coll -- bad road loss being flown to hostile host
14)  Tommies -- one and done
15)  RIC -- Won the bracket containing Trinity CT NESCAC and Brandeis UAA;  loses by 12 at Amherst
16)  SJF -- Rochester UAA
17)  Depauw--lost to Whitworth in OT on a neutral floor
18 )  Augie -- bad home loss early
19)  UW-Oshkosh -- the only reason is that they beat Carroll at home, but lost 3 times to UW-LAX
20)  Lake Erie -- edged by JCU at home
21)  Centre -- beat Capital OAC on neutral floor.
22)  Elmhurst -- solely to the benefit of the doubt that the CCIW "should have two, if not three teams, in the tournament".  Went 1-2 vs Augie and still lost to Simpson.
23)  Catholic -- Best (non-Lincoln) team in the Mid-Atlantic/Atlantic regions
24)  UW-LAX -- see comment on #22.  I have no other reason to figure that LAX would beat MissColl in Clinton.
25)  Stevens -- token Atlantic squad.

Thanks

Thanks friends, and I will appreciate the debate on the issues that we had stronger conferences this year, UAA, NESCAC and ODAC in a year when the CCIW, the OAC and WIAC were down.

Next year, I will suspect the CCIW, the OAC and the WIAC to return to usual form.  However, their playoff teams didn't look like Top conference material this year. :)

And note, I did not cut Miss Coll (my Pick'em Contest Champion selection) any slack.  I had thought that the best chance for Miss College to win a Sweet 16 game was for them to play a non-Great Lakes opponent.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: diehardfan on March 23, 2007, 02:36:28 AM
1. Amherst
2. Wash U
3. Va Wes
4. Wooster
5. Whitworth
6. Hope
7. UWSP
8. Guilford
9. Brockport
10. Carroll
11. Augustana
12. Elmhurst
13. Oshkosh
14. RIC
15. St. Thomas
16. Miss Col
17. LaCrosse
18. Chicago
19. Trinity CT
20. Wheaton
21. Lincoln
22. Occidental
23. Aurora
24. Brandeis
25. Keene St
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: diehardfan on March 23, 2007, 02:42:12 AM
That whole process was made a lot easier by having been at the final four and the sectionals. I either saw the team or someone who played the team with almost everyone on my list, so it helped compare scores that didn't necessarily make sense and weight things appropriately.

This is especially evident in my pick of Wash U over VA Wes.... Wash U would have won that semifinal game if soph PG Sean Wallis had just driven in for the layup instead of pulling up and passing. As it was they were only .8 secs from sending it into overtime. I also think their road to get there was tougher, having no bye and having to play on the road the whole time. Wash U is my emphatic preseason #1 with their three best players returning. Whitworth gets props from me for winning all but a few conference games and playing Wash U the closest of all tournament teams, with the game @ Wash U. I think Hope's results make the team look just a tad better than they are. They basically didn't even run an offense against Carroll. That game was won because Carroll panicked and Hope outhustled them on the boards and in general by a landslide.

You'll notice I didn't give many of the Great Lakes teams props, and in the end, eliminated JCU, Witt and Lake Erie who were all floating around the bottom of my bracket as it got closer to the end. Blame it on Cooper's lackluster performance and the team going down with him. If there had been a clear pick for 4th instead of them I might have been tempted to bump them out of the top 4. Plus it just annoys me that they didn't play hard in the beginning of any game in the playoffs and let themselves get into waaay too many holes. I think Augie and Elmhurst were dead even this season, along with a great deal of the CCIW... and while I'll agree that the Augie result indicates we didn't have a top 5 team, I still think we were the best and toughest league top to bottom. I just didn't feel right ranking Wheaton higher as a Wheaton fan, despite HoopsFan's high ranking, so I left my team on there, but low. I'm very comfortable saying that the Wheaton team I saw twice could beat any of the teams below them.

I definitely wouldn't feel comfortable doing this every week, but I'm pretty comfortable with my responses. Thanks for letting me participate Chuck, etc! :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 23, 2007, 04:28:08 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 23, 2007, 12:58:07 AMThanks friends, and I will appreciate the debate on the issues that we had stronger conferences this year, UAA, NESCAC and ODAC in a year when the CCIW, the OAC and WIAC were down.

Next year, I will suspect the CCIW, the OAC and the WIAC to return to usual form.  However, their playoff teams didn't look like Top conference material this year. :)

True, but it's a leap to go from observing that the CCIW rep bowed out early in undistinguished fashion to extrapolating that the league was thus "down" this past season.

NON-CONFERENCE RECORDS
(D3 tourney games included)
CCIW  66-23  .742
UAA  74-26  .740
NESCAC118-51  .698
WIAC  64-29  .688
HCAC  58-29  .667
NJAC  90-47  .657
ODAC  60-32  .652
OAC  56-30  .651
CAC  57-37  .606
SCAC  73-52  .584
MIAC  32-35  .478
NCAC  48-60  .444
MWC  33-42  .440
MIAA  38-59  .392

If that's what you consider "down", then may the CCIW never rise up again. :D

The WIAC and OAC were actually down this season. The WIAC's usually in the .700 neighborhood or better, and for as long as I can remember our cheesehead friends have posted the best cumulative non-conference record in D3. They clearly fell short of their usual standards this season. The OAC was slightly down in terms of non-con record from usual, although not drastically. A lot of the OAC's rep rests on its parity and fine postseason performances, and while the parity was clearly there this season the postseason performances weren't.

It also needs to be said that the CCIW wasn't down even by its own internal standards. The non-conference record posted by the league as a whole this season is the best in the 61-year history of the circuit. It's an improvement of seven games over last year's cumulative non-con mark. The teams at the top of the CCIW weren't as good as the teams at the top in 2005-06, but the teams at the bottom were a lot better. As April said, the CCIW didn't have a Top 5 team this year, and that's reflected in Augie's unceremonious early exit and in Elmhurst's snub -- but from top to bottom the league itself had an unparalleled strength that is clearly reflected in the non-conference record.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 23, 2007, 06:28:57 AM
QuoteNext year, I will suspect the CCIW, the OAC and the WIAC to return to usual form.  However, their playoff teams didn't look like Top conference material this year.
More later this evening, but that statement and the CCIW inter-conference record are not mutually inconsistent.

Have a good day. :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on March 23, 2007, 09:51:52 AM
The only team I'd debate against being in the top 25 was Aurora, they should switch out with Stevens.

Stevens proved they belong with some good wins in the tournament.  Aurora lost on their home floor to a pretty average Calvin squad, infact were being dominated at the half.  I didn't see a top 25 team in Aurora, good individual players but not a good team.



The biggest problem most of us had was what to do with the non-tournament teams.  I ranked them

#7 Oshkosh
#11 Elmhurst
#18 Wittenberg
#23 NYU

Had I been voting for LaCrosse they might have squeezed in there but they'd been off my ballots for a few weeks.

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 23, 2007, 12:29:40 PM

In my final pre-tournament ballot, I had this crazy Wheaton, Oshkosh, LaCrosse cabal sitting at 13-14-15.  So none of them make the tournament and afterwards I'm lost on what to do.  Solution: I just left them there.  It's where I thought they were before the tournament and they did nothing to change my mind (nor could they, really).  I just moved other teams around them as merited. 

Not a lot changed though in terms of the top 12 versus the bottom ten.  Guilford moved up above the non-qualifiers to take Chicago's place.

I added Stevens, Carroll, RIC, Brockport and Lincoln to replace the five I dropped out: Ramapo, North Central, Loras, Capital and Occidental.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 23, 2007, 12:30:04 PM
Forgot this:

Poster's Poll

Top 25

Final March 19, 2007:

1.   Amherst
2.   Stevens Point
3.   Wooster
4.   Virginia Wesleyan
5.   Washington U
6.   Augustana
7.   Mississippi College
8.   St. Thomas
9.   Elmhurst
10. Guilford
11. Whitworth
12. Brandeis
13. Wheaton
14. La Crosse
15. Oshkosh
16. Hope
17. Rhode Island College
18. Brockport State
19. Lincoln
20. Aurora
21. Centre
22. Trinity (CT)
23. Carroll
24. Chicago
25. Stevens
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on March 23, 2007, 01:45:25 PM
Let the record show that i did NOT vote for DePauw. But you already could have guessed that, eh?  ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 23, 2007, 02:07:27 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 23, 2007, 12:30:04 PM
Forgot this:

Poster's Poll

Top 25

Final March 19, 2007:

1.   Amherst
2.   Stevens Point
3.   Wooster
4.   Virginia Wesleyan
5.   Washington U
6.   Augustana
7.   Mississippi College
8.   St. Thomas
9.   Elmhurst
10. Guilford
11. Whitworth
12. Brandeis
13. Wheaton
14. La Crosse
15. Oshkosh
16. Hope
17. Rhode Island College
18. Brockport State
19. Lincoln
20. Aurora
21. Centre
22. Trinity (CT)
23. Carroll
24. Chicago
25. Stevens


OK, I'll ask - UWSP #2????
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 23, 2007, 02:23:20 PM
Quote from: smedindy on March 23, 2007, 01:45:25 PM
Let the record show that i did NOT vote for DePauw. But you already could have guessed that, eh?  ;)

Fear not, smed, the PP shows only one voter named DePauw and our token Southerner has already posted his ballot - your Little Giant credentials are safe! ;)  [BTW, I've tried to recruit a voter from ODAC, even asking 2 or 3 by name, but can't get anyone to admit they follow d3 beyond their region.]

FDF, while no one else had UWSP that high, based on the total season I don't find the vote indefensible.  I'm the only other one who had UWSP over Woo (4 and 5, respectively), reasoning that I had Point 1 and Woo 2 going in, and Point lost to Wash U while Woo lost to Wash U AND Amherst.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: MeOak21 on March 23, 2007, 02:23:59 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 23, 2007, 12:30:04 PM
Forgot this:

Poster’s Poll

Top 25

Final March 19, 2007:

1.   Amherst
2.   Stevens Point
3.   Wooster
4.   Virginia Wesleyan
5.   Washington U
6.   Augustana
7.   Mississippi College
8.   St. Thomas
9.   Elmhurst
10. Guilford
11. Whitworth
12. Brandeis
13. Wheaton
14. La Crosse
15. Oshkosh
16. Hope
17. Rhode Island College
18. Brockport State
19. Lincoln
20. Aurora
21. Centre
22. Trinity (CT)
23. Carroll
24. Chicago
25. Stevens


Hoops- I hope its not just my bias shining through... but please tell me you just forgot about Keene St. :)

I know they're borderline but come on man
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 23, 2007, 03:24:26 PM

OK, here we get to answer the questions:

I'll admit, I put less emphasis on the tournament than most, perhaps even less than I would otherwise be inclined to do.  I'm not going to put undue influence on these games just because they came in the tournament.  I just treated the tournament like a "week" of games, judging whether teams should move up or down based on performance.

I had Stevens Point #1 going in (although I've been a big Amherst fan all year).  My internal debate went like this.  "Sure they've been very good all year, but they lost by twelve on their home court to WashU, that certainly doesn't suggest the dominance they've shown the rest of the year.  But then again they have been dominant all year and this may have been an aberration.  Twelve points to a very, very good team can't hurt them that much."  They've been good and shown solid consistency from the beginning.  The tournament is an awful place to have a bad game, but that doesn't make them any less talented as a team.  It's not like there's a ton of difference between those first five schools anyway.

Keene was another tough one, although more tough emotionally than practically.  I'm a New England guy, I've been touting Keene from the beginning of the season.  It came down to which teams did I feel earned their way onto my ballot because of the tournament.  RIC, Brockport, and Lincoln had been on my ballot or very near to it all year.  Those were no brainers.  I felt that Stevens deserved to get on because they beat my previous #25 (Ramapo) in the tournament.  Finally Carroll had one heck of a weekend, certainly better performance-wise than Keene, so Carroll got the spot over Keene.

If I were to drop one more team out, it would be Chicago or Aurora.  In looking back on the season as a whole I didn't feel that either one was worse than Keene in any significant way.  I'm not sure Keene would have beat out John Carroll either, but I didn't have to make that call.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: MeOak21 on March 23, 2007, 03:42:40 PM
It appears you have the ability to be more objective than myself.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 23, 2007, 04:08:23 PM
I agree HF - very resonable and objective thought process.  I for one, would have a hard time viewing the tournament games as a "week of games" (too much emotional connection for me) but I think it's a pretty good approach.

I also think it's hard to know what to do with the Elmhurst, Oshkosh, Wittenburgs of the world.  Hard to penalize a team that didn't play - although the fact that they were not in the tournament did mean that in most cases they lost at least one game since the last poll (conference tournament).

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 23, 2007, 04:23:17 PM
We did the last poll after the conference tournament.  Wittenberg was no longer on my radar at that point.

Honestly, I admit you've shown restraint not lambasting me for keeping Hope so far down, when I was obviously at least partially wrong about them this year.  They were indeed better than I expected them to be, even though they didn't exactly get the murderer's row of Midwest teams in the tournament.  They were just one stuck beneath that string of non-qualifiers that I couldn't find it in my heart to demote.  The only team that did make the mighty leap up was Guilford; moving Hope as well would have required me to drop another team down below the 13-15 spots and I didn't feel anyone else deserved such a demotion.  I hope you'll understand it was more about not punishing someone above them as it was about rewarding Hope.

In the end this year I went 1-1-1 on my crazy ideas.  Hope was plenty good, WPI was totally not and Mary-Hardin Baylor was somewhere in between.



By the way, it's a heck of a lot easier to look at the tournament objectively when your alma mater has no chance of ever being competitive, even if by some miracle it became competitive within it's own conference someday.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 23, 2007, 04:51:26 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 23, 2007, 04:23:17 PM

By the way, it's a heck of a lot easier to look at the tournament objectively when your alma mater has no chance of ever being competitive, even if by some miracle it became competitive within it's own conference someday.


No doubt about that one.    ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on March 23, 2007, 05:16:25 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 23, 2007, 02:07:27 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 23, 2007, 12:30:04 PM
Forgot this:

Poster's Poll

Top 25

Final March 19, 2007:

1.   Amherst
2.   Stevens Point
3.   Wooster
4.   Virginia Wesleyan
5.   Washington U
6.   Augustana
7.   Mississippi College
8.   St. Thomas
9.   Elmhurst
10. Guilford
11. Whitworth
12. Brandeis
13. Wheaton
14. La Crosse
15. Oshkosh
16. Hope
17. Rhode Island College
18. Brockport State
19. Lincoln
20. Aurora
21. Centre
22. Trinity (CT)
23. Carroll
24. Chicago
25. Stevens


OK, I'll ask - UWSP #2????

UWSP 2 and Hope 16? Please!

Your thoughts on UWSP aren't illogical but I can't agree with so little emphasis placed on the NCAA tourney. The whole reason you play the regular season is to get to the Tourney, then you play the Tourney to win!!! If UWSP can't win at home in the Sweet Sixteen they can't be in the top 5!!!  And clearly I am biased on Hope but 16!!! Even if you didn't see them play once all year their run in the tourney, where they played Wash U a whole lot closer than UWSP did suggests they are better than 16. Elmhurst didn't even make the dance and they are in the top 10!!!! ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on March 23, 2007, 06:19:42 PM
Hoops Fan has been voting Hope in the bottom half of his poll all year, he's sticking with how he voted and I don't think you could criticize for that.  He'd be moving them up 10-14 spots or more if he followed how most voted Hope and I'm not sure beating Chicago, Calvin and Carroll warrants that big of a move.  I think I moved them up 5 spots if I'm recalling my last poll correctly, over 5 teams, 3 that didn't go as far in the tournament and 2 who didn't make the tournament.

Stevens Point was physically the best team I saw in person this year, but their lack of depth did them in with me.  I'd be comfortable in saying they could handle Wooster on most nights but they'd have trouble with Woosters depth.......and the fact that they didn't handle a good Washington team (which was not a 12 point loss, more like 20) left them out of my top 4 but solidly at #5.  Even though they're at #5, there's a pretty slim difference between anyone in the top 10 in my opinion and when taking the whole season into consideration I think you could come up with any ranking of the top 7 or 8 in any order with Amherst #1 and probably be ok.


As for the non-tournament teams, Oshkosh moved up for me mostly because 3 teams I had ranked ahead disappointed in the tournament so badly.......St. Thomas, Augustana and Miss Coll.  Elmhurst and Witt moved down a couple only because a couple teams behind them had good tournament runs  Hope/Guilford and Brockport/Carroll


Looking back at my poll I probably punished Miss College too much, but for the 3rd straight year they got beat handilly in the Sweet 16 stepping out of the deep south/far western teams, after much praise during the regular season.   

I didn't vote for DePauw either. ;D ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on March 23, 2007, 07:38:24 PM
The UWSP loss to Wash U was one of two bad shooting nights all year long.  And Point lost both games.  Part of this could be due to Wash U, but there were so many OPEN shots that simply didn't fall.  Point shot 22% from 3 (20% worse than the rest of the season) and 37.1% for the game (12% worse than the rest of the season).

Pete Rortvedt shot 1/11.  He averages over three 3's per game and makes them at a 41.1% clip.  He shot 9% from deep for the game.

Jon Krull shot 3/13.  He averages almost two 3's per game, but has the potential of scoring spurts (his three 3's were on 3 successive possessions, and the 4th just rimmed out).  He makes them at a 41.1% clip as well.  He shot 23.1 % for the game.

Steve Hicklin shot 2/7.  He averages almost three 3's per game and also has the potential of scoring spurts.  He makes them at a clip of 50% clip (which was top 3 in the country all season long).  He shot 28.6% for the game.

Point's three best shooters had off nights.  Certainly this could be because of Wash U's defense, but I don't think it can be entirely attributed to this.

Now, Point didn't help themselves by turning the ball over 12 times (50% times than they averaged, per game for the year), and Point had a drought of 5 minutes without a basket.  But this was not a situation that was limited to the 5 mins in the second half.  Expect for the Krull back-to-back-to-back three's in the first half, and a barrage of shots that came in the last two minutes, Point was off almost all night, and this happened, like I said earlier, only one time during the season.

It really was a prime example that a team that lived by the three died by it on that particular night.


Also, interestingly Sac, Point played just 6 players the game that you saw.  Typically, Coach Semling brought 1-2 more players in for about 8-10 minutes to spell the starters.  It really depended upon who was playing well and the situation of what type of team Point was playing.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 23, 2007, 09:02:01 PM
Even tho' DePauw is in the SCAC, I really consider them a Great Lakes/Midwest team, rather than a South Region team. :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 23, 2007, 10:21:53 PM
My ballot (with notes):

1. Amherst - duh! (Actually I do NOT feel required to vote the champ #1 [they're already the champ!], but aside from NCSt in '83 and 'nova in '85 I can't think of any I wouldn't, and none in d3.)
2. Va Wes
3. Wash U - again, not out of necessity (last year I put IWU over Witt for #2 - both lost to Va Wes, both beat Amherst, that Witt finished 2nd was a quirk of bracketing, not a bball result; and I ALMOST put Lawrence over Witt in #3), but I saw no good reason not to - between them they beat all the logical alternatives
4. UWSP
5. Woo - discussed 4 and 5 in an earlier post
6. Hope - I've had them solid top 10 since seeing them in Adrian, though HOW good they were was hard to say since the MIAA (save Calvin) never challenged them
7. Guilford - I SUSPECT we've all overreacted to the Lincoln win, but if they could avoid Va Wes, they'd be nearly unbeaten on the year!  (And my gut hunch is that if the Marlins had gone 3OT instead of the Quakers, Guilford would have been in Salem.)
8. Oshkosh - also discussed in an earlier post
9. Augie - yeah, a shocking loss (though by only 4, and eased slightly by Carroll doing the same thing to the Tommies); still they were both the regular season and tourney champs of the toughest conference in d3 this year.
10. Miss Coll - yeah, they were stomped (but Va Wes IS pretty good!); for their total season's work, I can't see punishing them more, especially since they deserved a home game
11. Whitworth - being in d3 Siberia, I just don't know whether they are too high or too low, but this seemed about right
12. RIC - not much of a schedule (before or IN the tourney), but they won almost all of them and made the Elite Eight
13. Carroll - WHAT A RUN while it lasted!  Still, the MWC was pretty weak this year, yet they only finished second (I was REALLY tempted to put Grinnell somewhere, but I just knew they'd be a solo outlier even if I did!)
14. St Thomas - somehow I just could never get on the Tommies' bandwagon; I was tempted to put them lower, but thought that would be unfair
15. Elmhurst - Augie's flame-out sure didn't help them, but perhaps they would NOT have flopped?
16. La Crosse - any team that can go 3-0 vs Oshkosh deserves some props!
17. Witt - it is SO hard to evaluate Woo and Witt (and, this year, Hope) because of the weakness of most of their conference mates.  In retrospect, I think I have them too high
18. Brockport - sure they made the Elite Eight, but some unranked team HAD to win that part of the bracket!  Frankly, I was more impressed with their taking Woo to OT than by any of their wins
19. Chicago - solid, but not spectacular, overall year
20. JCU - they won a power conference, they beat Lake Erie at (in?) the lake, they just didn't really impress me but deserve to go somewhere!
21. Stevens - their tourney performance deserves some mention, though this MIGHT be too high
22. Brandeis - somebody's got to be #22 and it never hurts to suck up to Judges!  More seriously, I thought the bants were for real.
23. Lincoln - while Guilford MAY be overranked, taking them to 3OTs deserves the nod
24. Wheaton - although 13th may be crazy, the Thunder are a solid 20-30 team (and they did beat Hope!)
25. Aurora - for the total season, they may deserve #25, but I kinda wish I'd bit the bullet and gone with Grinnell (see Carroll above) or Calvin (they beat Hope TWICE, nevermind the three losses!)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 24, 2007, 02:14:40 AM
I can follow your logic, and I hope that this is the ultimate value of your year's compilation.

I believe that the posters' poll help us fans to hash out what is happening in Pat's poll and still preserves the anonymity that we are glad that it (the official Top 25) has.

Our discussions have covered most of the issues that are raised in the official Top 25.

I look forward to next year's edition! ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: diehardfan on March 24, 2007, 02:19:37 AM
Seriously, I don't know how you guys do this all season long. There are some teams placement that I def have an opinion on... but I look at my poll and sometimes I think... yeah, I got that right, and sometimes I'm just not happy with it and am super confused. :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 26, 2007, 03:01:05 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 23, 2007, 03:24:26 PM

OK, here we get to answer the questions:

I'll admit, I put less emphasis on the tournament than most, perhaps even less than I would otherwise be inclined to do.  I'm not going to put undue influence on these games just because they came in the tournament.  I just treated the tournament like a "week" of games, judging whether teams should move up or down based on performance.

That's a bold and counterintuitive stance, HF, and while I didn't subscribe to it myself when I gave Chuck my final Top 25 ballot I'll admit that your reasoning is certainly valid.

Quote from: DCHopeNut on March 23, 2007, 05:16:25 PMAnd clearly I am biased on Hope but 16!!! Even if you didn't see them play once all year their run in the tourney, where they played Wash U a whole lot closer than UWSP did suggests they are better than 16. Elmhurst didn't even make the dance and they are in the top 10!!!! ??? ??? ???

At the risk of having some of you Hopesters go ballistic on me, there were several of us who were sitting in Switzerland during the Aurora regional who quietly concurred with each other at the end of the weekend that we thought Elmhurst was better than any of the four teams present, and that the Bluejays would've beaten either of the MIAA teams on a neutral floor.

And, no, I was not the first member of the Swiss Army to say it. But I did agree with that conclusion. However, in the end I relented and, contra HF, put Hope ninth on my ballot and Elmhurst twelfth because of the Elite Eight run by the Dutch. So I suppose this means that I'm outing myself as a flaming hypocrite. Oh, well ... I'll live. :D

Quote from: diehardfan on March 24, 2007, 02:19:37 AM
Seriously, I don't know how you guys do this all season long. There are some teams placement that I def have an opinion on... but I look at my poll and sometimes I think... yeah, I got that right, and sometimes I'm just not happy with it and am super confused. :D

Don't feel bad, April. This was a super-confused kind of year. My Top 25 votes show little rhyme or reason from one week to the next (as opposed to the marked consistency of, say, HF in sticking to his guns and keeping Hope low), although each week I felt that I had good reasons for stacking them up the way that I did.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 26, 2007, 09:47:12 AM
Quote from: sac on March 23, 2007, 06:19:42 PM
I think I moved them up 5 spots if I'm recalling my last poll correctly, over 5 teams, 3 that didn't go as far in the tournament and 2 who didn't make the tournament.

I moved Hope up four spots.  Again, I mentioned that Hope is stuck behind three teams that didn't get into the tournament and the only reason I didn't move them up higher (ie into the top 15, where they belong) is because I felt in unfair to penalize those teams that didn't get in (when they were obviously among the best teams around).

The top 12 is rare air and none of those teams were so overwhelmingly disappointing that they deserved to drop the (at least) four spots it would have taken for me to put Hope in.  You can fault the logic of leaving the non-tournament teams in their spots, but that's what I decided to do.

I've already said I underestimated Hope this year.  I'm not sure what else I can do.  I'm still not convinced their top 10, but I'm willing to admit top 15 with out a second thought.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on March 26, 2007, 11:59:45 AM
It was fun, and I loved doing this. And I only wish the flyer I took on Loras paid off, but you know, that's the way it bounces.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on March 26, 2007, 01:39:38 PM
I bet Switzerland thought Augustana could handle Carroll as well. ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 26, 2007, 02:17:00 PM
Quote from: sac on March 26, 2007, 01:39:38 PM
I bet Switzerland thought Augustana could handle Carroll as well. ;)

Given their consistent neutrality, when it comes to judging the battle ability of various armies (eh, teams), I would guess the Swiss might want to stick to chocolate.    :o
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 26, 2007, 02:32:57 PM

and knives; don't forget the knives.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: diehardfan on March 26, 2007, 05:13:39 PM
...and watches :)

But Swiss chocolate is certainly the best tasting of the three! :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 27, 2007, 03:51:12 AM
Quote from: sac on March 26, 2007, 01:39:38 PM
I bet Switzerland thought Augustana could handle Carroll as well. ;)

In our defense, I'm pretty sure that all of the adjoining Alpine countries thought that Augustana could handle Carroll, too. :D

Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 26, 2007, 02:17:00 PMGiven their consistent neutrality, when it comes to judging the battle ability of various armies (eh, teams), I would guess the Swiss might want to stick to chocolate.    :o

Actually, the opposite is true. The Bundesheer (Swiss Army) is the second-largest army in the world in terms of per capita service (after the Israeli Defense Forces) and is generally acknowledged as being rivaled only by the Israelis in terms of the high degree of competence and training regimen among the world's conscripted national forces. Also, as every student of WWII knows, the Swiss turned their mountain regions into a series of hidden fortresses (the Reduit) that gave Hitler pause as far as invading Fascist-surrounded Switzerland was concerned.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 27, 2007, 09:34:17 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 27, 2007, 03:51:12 AM
The Bundesheer (Swiss Army) is the second-largest army in the world in terms of per capita service (after the Israeli Defense Forces) and is generally acknowledged as being rivaled only by the Israelis in terms of the high degree of competence and training regimen among the world's conscripted national forces.

Sure, but it's easy to look good in the always weak ACBC (Alpine Country Battle Conference)   ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 27, 2007, 09:41:47 AM

Don't overlook Liechtenstein.  They may be small, but they pack a powerful punch.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on March 27, 2007, 11:51:17 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 27, 2007, 03:51:12 AM
The Bundesheer (Swiss Army) is the second-largest army in the world in terms of per capita service (after the Israeli Defense Forces) and is generally acknowledged as being rivaled only by the Israelis in terms of the high degree of competence and training regimen among the world's conscripted national forces.


Yes, but earlier this month the Swiss accidentally invaded Lichtenstein. Where everybody knows everybody and no one works after 5:05PM. I know, I was there during the "invasion." Haha.  http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6415531.stm
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 27, 2007, 12:32:02 PM

Are you telling us you've actually been to Liechtenstein? 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on March 27, 2007, 02:31:15 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 27, 2007, 12:32:02 PM

Are you telling us you've actually been to Liechtenstein? 

I have been to Lichtenstein. I was actually there during the Sweet Sixteen of this year's D3 tourney. I was able to drive through the entire country in less than 20 minutes and it would have been faster if not for the street lights. All told it was funny to say we stopped in Lichtenstein but definitely not worth going too far out of your way to visit. They didn't even have a good pub to stop for a post-working day beverage. ??? :(
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on March 27, 2007, 03:32:12 PM
The Austro-Prussian War of 1866 was the last time Leichtenstein fielded an army--80 men.

I've heard rumblings within the Swiss government that they aren't happy they stopped before going all the way to Vaduz.  Many have said they'll just have to go back in 10 years and finish the job.


'W' is pretty worried the situation could spin out of control and has formed a committee to decide which side to support.  He was however heard saying "maybe we should tell the Swiss we're neutral, see how they like it."  He is concerned that the US may be forced to side with Switzerland given our countries affection for chocolate, swiss army knives and watches....."those knives are just cool", he was quoted as saying.

In a twist, the German ambassador was asked his opinion of the Swiss invasion...."We know nothing" was his programmed response.  When pressed further he did admit off the record that as long as Bayern Munich were involved in the Champions League they had no interest in getting involved in this highly volotile situation.  However he was quoted "if they win, we may invade Leichtenstein ourselves just for kicks."

The French are unlikely to become involved as long as their financial interests remain intact.  "We have a gas station, convenience store in Vaduz, its our most profitable in the region.  Should it become damaged or fall into Swiss hands we would probably have to become involved and blame the Americans."  "Our armies and speech writers are ready"

When told this 'W' just laughed.

Throughout the region tensions are high, it is thought a war lasting longer than 30 minutes would greatly incovenience Europeans, but within hours most would just go back to complaining about the Euro and American politics.


33,987  Leichtensteinians sleep with one eye to the Swiss border tonight, although 34% probably could care less since they are German, Swiss or Italians.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on March 27, 2007, 04:12:34 PM
Quote from: sac on March 27, 2007, 03:32:12 PM
The Austro-Prussian War of 1866 was the last time Leichtenstein fielded an army--80 men.

I've heard rumblings within the Swiss government that they aren't happy they stopped before going all the way to Vaduz.  Many have said they'll just have to go back in 10 years and finish the job.


'W' is pretty worried the situation could spin out of control and has formed a committee to decide which side to support.  He was however heard saying "maybe we should tell the Swiss we're neutral, see how they like it."  He is concerned that the US may be forced to side with Switzerland given our countries affection for chocolate, swiss army knives and watches....."those knives are just cool", he was quoted as saying.

In a twist, the German ambassador was asked his opinion of the Swiss invasion...."We know nothing" was his programmed response.  When pressed further he did admit off the record that as long as Bayern Munich were involved in the Champions League they had no interest in getting involved in this highly volotile situation.  However he was quoted "if they win, we may invade Leichtenstein ourselves just for kicks."

The French are unlikely to become involved as long as their financial interests remain intact.  "We have a gas station, convenience store in Vaduz, its our most profitable in the region.  Should it become damaged or fall into Swiss hands we would probably have to become involved and blame the Americans."  "Our armies and speech writers are ready"

When told this 'W' just laughed.

Throughout the region tensions are high, it is thought a war lasting longer than 30 minutes would greatly incovenience Europeans, but within hours most would just go back to complaining about the Euro and American politics.


33,987  Leichtensteinians sleep with one eye to the Swiss border tonight, although 34% probably could care less since they are German, Swiss or Italians.


+K Priceless, haha.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on March 27, 2007, 04:39:21 PM
One day I hope to get to Liechtenstein, Andorra and San Marino. Too bad they're not close together.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 28, 2007, 01:32:49 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 27, 2007, 09:34:17 AMSure, but it's easy to look good in the always weak ACBC (Alpine Country Battle Conference)   ;)

What galls me is that the United Nations gave the ACBC an at-large seat on the Security Council that should've been given to a country from one of the power blocs.

Quote from: smedindy on March 27, 2007, 04:39:21 PM
One day I hope to get to Liechtenstein, Andorra and San Marino. Too bad they're not close together.

Malta, Monaco, and Vatican City will never forgive you for this snub, Scott.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: hopefan on March 28, 2007, 05:06:08 AM
Baron Sicluna from the Isle of Malta... a childhood memory...
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 28, 2007, 08:25:48 AM
All this discussion of world travel when all you need is to get back to Luckenbach, Texas with Waylon, Willie and the boys...  ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on March 28, 2007, 11:30:34 AM
I don't know about Malta - I saw a movie that was filmed there starring Joe Don Baker and there were a lot of bad guys hanging around and I think he ate everything on the island to boot.

Ralph - I would ask Whiskey River to take my mind, but now I'm sticking to Dr. Pepper.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 28, 2007, 11:31:37 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 28, 2007, 08:25:48 AM
All this discussion of world travel when all you need is to get back to Luckenbach, Texas with Waylon, Willie and the boys...  ;)

or wasted away again in Margaritaville   ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 28, 2007, 01:03:52 PM
Quote from: smedindy on March 28, 2007, 11:30:34 AM
I don't know about Malta - I saw a movie that was filmed there starring Joe Don Baker...

That does it for me.  I've always thought pictures from Malta were quite beautiful, but if Joe Don Baker's been there, it's not a vacation destination.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 29, 2007, 02:01:34 AM
I'm proud to be an Okie from Muskogee.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 26, 2007, 10:19:10 PM
"4", I see the Brandeis.edu.

We need another good perspective from both the northeast and the UAA.

The tendency has been for the voters to be especially critical of the areas where they are seeing the games so as to help us voters in other parts of the country understand what is "goin' down" there.

Welcome aboard!  We are a very collegial group who try to get the poll "right" every week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: ILive4This on October 30, 2007, 11:45:08 PM
so do we want to have a go at doing a pre season poll or is that going to be a no-no?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on October 31, 2007, 12:01:13 AM
Quote from: ILive4This on October 30, 2007, 11:45:08 PM
so do we want to have a go at doing a pre season poll or is that going to be a no-no?

I don't feel competent to participate (yeah, yeah - so that is different from January, how?), but I will compile it if people want to PM me.  Alternatively, since we don't really start up until January, if people just want to use this board to post their lists, that's cool.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 31, 2007, 12:12:06 AM
I like the idea of us fans using this board to discuss what we know about our areas of the country.

Some schools have not even posted rosters yet.

The pre-season polls have only been released by conferences in the last 2 weeks.

Later this weekend I will look at the ASC, the SCAC and the NWC. (McMurry's first opponent is George Fox).

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: ILive4This on December 09, 2007, 03:47:52 PM
How does everyone feel about the new number one poll on the front page. As much as I would love to see Brandeis as number one, the OT loss on thursday makes that seem not very likely, and I am also shocked that Rochester is not on there as by default I feel they will end up as number 1 even though I am no so sure they are the number one team in the country. Who does everyone thing the new number one Will/should be, These can be two different answers.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 09, 2007, 04:04:53 PM
My #1:

Will be: Rochester
Should be: ??  That's why the PP doesn't start 'til January! ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 09, 2007, 08:03:59 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 09, 2007, 04:04:53 PM
My #1:

Will be: Rochester
Should be: ??  That's why the PP doesn't start 'til January! ;)
I agree!  Let's let some dust settle over the next 3-4 weeks.

We get some nice inter-regional matches by Top 25 teams over the Holidays.  At least we can get some comparisons.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 15, 2007, 12:58:13 AM
Quite true, Ralph - I'm especially looking forward to the showdown at Cal Lu on Monday: Gallaudet vs. Caltech! ;)  (I say the Quantum Hoops guys pull it off.)

More seriously, I'm looking forward to another season of PP, and hope lots of others are beginning to study up!  I'd love it if we got everyone back from last year, plus at least 3 or 4 new voters.  While I wouldn't turn away serious new voters from anywhere, we're pretty well represented from Wisconsin, Illinois, and Michigan - if you can suggest participating to good candidates from elsewhere, bless you!  (I'd especially welcome new blood from both coasts.)

I'm undecided whether to start up with games thru January 6th, or wait 'til the 13th.  Thoughts?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on December 15, 2007, 01:27:59 AM
Here's a thought, how about doing a top 20 instead top 25.  I think the mashing of teeth for those final 5 spots might keep some people from voting.

Twenty might be a number that gets a few more involved. (less time consuming, fewer teams to follow etc.)



Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 15, 2007, 12:58:13 AM

I'm undecided whether to start up with games thru January 6th, or wait 'til the 13th.  Thoughts?

Since its following the Holidays, Jan 13 might be a better date..........although we could do the 6th and just consider it our pre-season poll. :P
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Cards7580 on December 15, 2007, 01:45:42 AM
"Larry David: "Have you heard of Switzerland? It's a country in Europe and they don't like to fight. They let everybody do their fighting for them while they ski and eat chocolate."

I thought that was the FRENCH ? ::)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 15, 2007, 06:17:37 AM
I really like the idea of voting for 20 teams and filling the Top 25 from there.

I know that my #21-25 were the teams I was watching.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on December 15, 2007, 10:37:05 AM
I am for 1-25, just because I'll probably rate 'em all somehow.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: ILive4This on December 16, 2007, 11:07:13 PM
I like the idea of 1-25 exposes a larger number of teams through the ORV section. It gives a solid ranking of sometimes 40 teams or so, which is good because it allows a good poller to look into teams that others give votes to that he/she may not know about.  Plus that how the regular poll is done, so why not continue to emulate that with just a broader number of voters.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 16, 2007, 11:14:38 PM
Quote from: ILive4This on December 16, 2007, 11:07:13 PM
I like the idea of 1-25 exposes a larger number of teams through the ORV section. It gives a solid ranking of sometimes 40 teams or so, which is good because it allows a good poller to look into teams that others give votes to that he/she may not know about.  Plus that how the regular poll is done, so why not continue to emulate that with just a broader number of voters.

I agree (and have sometimes started following teams that were 'off my radar' because of it), but I'm game however people vote (as long as they vote!!).  I kinda like having 21-25 as a place for teams coming out of nowhere that I'm not sure really belong, or traditional powers that I'm not sure have really fallen that far.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 17, 2007, 11:24:49 AM

I'll be ranking 1-25, whether you count the last five or not.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: ILive4This on January 04, 2008, 04:20:23 PM
So when are we getting this thing started?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 04, 2008, 06:01:07 PM
Quote from: ILive4This on January 04, 2008, 04:20:23 PM
So when are we getting this thing started?

Between the holidays and people who are o.d.ing on bowl games, we kind of decided on next week - i.e., games thru January 13; selections due (PM preferred, to my email is also OK) by c. 8pm EST on Mondays.  [Hint: there are generally at most a handful of Sunday games of much relevance to the top 25, so a 'rough draft' can usually be done Saturday p.m.]

I hope everyone is as eager to start as you and I are! :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: LogShow on January 06, 2008, 02:05:01 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 04, 2008, 06:01:07 PM
Quote from: ILive4This on January 04, 2008, 04:20:23 PM
So when are we getting this thing started?

Between the holidays and people who are o.d.ing on bowl games, we kind of decided on next week - i.e., games thru January 13; selections due (PM preferred, to my email is also OK) by c. 8pm EST on Mondays.  [Hint: there are generally at most a handful of Sunday games of much relevance to the top 25, so a 'rough draft' can usually be done Saturday p.m.]

I hope everyone is as eager to start as you and I are! :)

Good!  I always am interested in seeing the poster's poll and what you guys think.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2008, 05:40:58 PM
2007-08 Posters' Poll Begins!

The first poll of this season kicks off this weekend (all games thru Sunday the 13th).  Ballots are due Monday the 14th by 8pm EST (or later if turnout is lousy or the real poll is delayed).  I prefer ballots by Private Message, but by email (click on my name for address) is also acceptable.

A few very simple rules:

1. I reserve the right to omit ballots which are 'obvious' home-cooking.  (In two years I have never exercised this right, but feel obligated to include it just in case someone comes along with 6 of their top 10 from their [mediocre] conference. :))

2. If you have left out a team that everyone else is rating highly, I will seek clarification (time permitting, and only by PM).  This is NOT an attempt to sway the voting; most of the time the voter has admitted to an oversight.  But if I don't get an explanation, the ballot will still be counted as is.

3. I guarantee the privacy of your ballot (well, except for occasional banter among friends! ;)), but I DO encourage voters to 'out' themselves and explain their reasoning for teams ranked WAY higher or lower than others have done.  Our poll is certainly not in competition with Pat's, so learning each others reasoning is kind of the raison d'etre.

4. Have fun!  Some weeks this really seems like work, but if it wasn't (usually) fun, I certainly wouldn't be doing it!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 13, 2008, 09:15:17 PM


I'll give it a try.  I haven't been following things as closely this year, but I can make an attempt.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 14, 2008, 12:38:12 PM
Just four ballots in so far - c'mon guys! :)

So far 34 teams have been named - 18 on all four ballots, 4 on three, 4 on two, and 8 names only once each.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 14, 2008, 01:20:19 PM
Workin' it. At a conference but have a break now.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: LogShow on January 14, 2008, 01:56:10 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 14, 2008, 12:38:12 PM
Just four ballots in so far - c'mon guys! :)

So far 34 teams have been named - 18 on all four ballots, 4 on three, 4 on two, and 8 names only once each.

Different perspective leads to great variety, should be an interesting poll
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 14, 2008, 03:24:57 PM
Mine is in
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 14, 2008, 04:59:45 PM
We're now up to seven voters, including two new voices from the Northeast.  If all the voters from the last two years will join in, we can set a record for turnout!

And it is not too late for new blood - we are woefully shorthanded from the east (below New England), south and west (aside from the WIAC).  And so far, aside from Ralph, we haven't even heard from the past voters in ANY of those regions.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 14, 2008, 06:09:38 PM
Hey, I'm in the West now!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: ILive4This on January 14, 2008, 06:24:36 PM
Mr. Ypsi, was my vote received....I assume I am one of the new blood from the north east you referred to.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 14, 2008, 08:41:23 PM
Now at eight - I'm holding the poll open for at least a while hoping to hear from GS, OS, PS, KS, fb, etc.  Ballots in so far from 'new blood' ILive4This and nescac1 from the NE, Hoops Fan (formerly NE, now KC?), Ralph (ASC and everywhere!), Flying Dutch Fan and sac of the MIAA, smedindy (now the West [Minneapolis?], though I assume forever a Little Giant!), and me (Michigan for the last 38 years, but an IWU Titan at heart).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 14, 2008, 10:23:17 PM
First 2008 Posters' Poll:

1.  Rochester  199 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2)
2.  Brandeis   191 (1,2,2,2,2,2,3,3)
3.  Amherst   182 (2,3,3,3,3,3,3,6)

4.  Williams   161 (4,4,5,5,5,7,7,10)
5.  Wash U.   160 (4,5,5,6,6,6,7,9)
6.  UMHB     157 (4,4,4,5,6,6,8,14)
7.  Hope     152 (4,4,6,7,7,7,7,14)

8.  Augustana 140 (5,6,8,8,9,9,11,12)
9.  Puget Sound 133 (5,8,8,8,9,10,13,14)
10. UWSP     125 (7,9,10,10,11,11,12,13)
11. UWW     116 (10,11,11,11,12,12,12,13)
12. Elmhurst  109 (8,10,10,11,12,12,15,21)

13. UMass Dart  98 (2,9,13,13,17,17,19,20)
14. Capital     96 (9,12,13,14,14,15,16,19)
15. UWOsh    86 (8,13,15,15,16,17,18,20)
16. Guilford   79 (9,15,15,15,15,16,19,25)
17. Wooster  72 (13,14,14,17,18,19,19,22)
18. Wheaton  63 (10,14,16,17,18,20,24,-)
19. Stevens  60 (16,16,16,18,18,18,20,-)

20. Va. Wes.  40 (17,17,19,20,21,23,25,-)
21. CarnegieM  29 (18,19,22,23,23,23,25,-)
22. Plattsburgh  25 (20,21,21,21,22,-,-,-)
23. Centre     24 (20,21,22,22,22,25,-,-)
24. Millsaps   19 (21,21,22,23,24,-,-,-)
25. Rand-Macon  15 (1 voter)

(26)  Ursinus  11 (17,24)
(t27) UWP   10 (19,23)
(t27) Cal Lu  10 (1 voter)
(29)  Roanoke  8 (1 voter)
(t30) St Thomas  6 (23,24,25)
(t30) Heidelberg  6 (1 voter)
(32)  Nazareth   5 (23,24)
(t33) Oxy     4 (23,25)
(t33) RIC     4 (1 voter)
(t35) Elizabethtown  2 (1 voter)
(t35) Salem St.     2 (1 voter)
(37)  Loras       1

Hopefully next week we can have double-digits on voters.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 14, 2008, 11:44:24 PM
8 voters makes a couple of outliers stick out, but still, I think things were pretty well down the middle, though I can't say that I trust UM - D to be as high as Massey has them. Ah, well. May I be proven wrong.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 15, 2008, 01:21:18 AM
I like mine, too.  My top 20 are in the PP Top 20.  I also have three of the next five, so I think that I have stayed consistent with our group of voters.  I have the Top 23 of the D3Hoops Top 25.

I also missed CMU and RMC, but I was really reaching by the bottom of my poll.  I put Oxy and St Thomas in there, both of which were not single votes.

The UAA will help us sort this stuff out!

I did think that there were some real reaches.

As for Ursinus, I was not impressed with JHU last year, either at the Rowan Tourney where McMurry played or at the Westwood Tourney where Miss College played.  Is the Centennial really that strong?  The Mid-Atlantic is not getting rave reviews as a region, early in this season.

I thought that Cal LU was a reach at 16.  Randolph Macon at 11th is reach. (Probably got the vote of the East German judge!)  UW-Platteville will show us what they have.  They may be a sleeper.

If UMHB has a good weekend in Abilene this week and UT-Dallas can beat Miss College and Louisiana College then I believe that UT-Dallas should be on the radar screen.


Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: LogShow on January 15, 2008, 02:10:53 AM
The votes cast for Puget Sound are interesting.  As high as 5 and low as 14...consistancy around 8.  Thats probably where they belong
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nescac1 on January 15, 2008, 07:37:33 AM
As the guy who put UMass Dartmouth second (my only huge outlier) I'll explain my vote.

First, 13-0 is 13-0.  Second, although the team has been consistently mediocre the past five years, prior to that, they were a new england power for 15 years including several deep tournament runs (one final four), all under the same coach.  So it's not as if the coach and program haven't proven anything in the past.  And LEC is a strong conference, the only conference in N.E. outside of NESCAC that has produced truly top-notch teams in recent years.  Third, and most importantly, they gave Brandeis its only loss, who gave Amherst its only D-III loss, who gave Williams its only loss ... don't see how, until UMass-D loses, I can put them below those three teams.  Fourth, the team has improved a lot since last year -- the top player missed almost all of last year with an injury and they've added one of the top frosh in the region, plus a few guys have really stepped up when given bigger roles.  Fifth, last week they proved that Brandeis was not a fluke with two more high-quality wins .... Salem State (who has only one other loss) and Keene, which is MUCH better than its record (three OT losses and several other losses to very good teams).  Dartmouth still has a lot of tough games left on its schedule ... at Keene, RIC x2, and at Tufts in particular ... but so long as it continues to win, I'll continue to vote them high.  In a year when no one else has really proved themselves consistently, I'd say their record has to be rewarded
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 15, 2008, 08:58:28 AM
Good reasoning. I think they're one of those 'out of the blue' teams that will take time for people to realize how good they are. Massey may be pretty well dead on about them. Their Massey SOS is pretty good.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 15, 2008, 09:42:32 AM
MY top 20 match the polls top twenty as well (obviously some in a different positions).  My only variation for the poll was that I had St. Thomas at 23, and didn't include Randolph-Macon.  Interesting that St. Thomas had 3 voters and didn't make the top 25, while RM had 1 and did (the power of where you put them) 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 15, 2008, 11:19:12 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on January 15, 2008, 09:42:32 AM
MY top 20 match the polls top twenty as well (obviously some in a different positions).  My only variation for the poll was that I had St. Thomas at 23, and didn't include Randolph-Macon.  Interesting that St. Thomas had 3 voters and didn't make the top 25, while RM had 1 and did (the power of where you put them

More importantly, the weakness of a small poll!  (I'm pretty sure that this is the first time in three years that a team cracked the top 25 when named on only a single ballot.)  Nothing against Randolph-Macon (I strongly considered them once I hit the 20s, and they finished #25 in the real poll), but I sure hope we get up to 12-13 voters next week so 'outlyers' don't overwhelm the 'consensus'.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 15, 2008, 07:24:56 PM

I am probably responsible for my share of outliers.  I picked my ballot without looking  at the Top 25 at all.  I tried to judge by massey's schedule strength and from my own observations of opponents, etc.  I think it will even out as I continue to evaluate and more games are played.  The Macon thing is probably me.  The ODAC seems pretty strong this year and RMC seems to be playing the best right now.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 15, 2008, 08:55:29 PM
I was the #14 for Hope........I chuckled listening to the hoopsville archives last night because TitanQ and I hold pretty much the opinion about Hope and a number of Midwest teams.

Right now there just isn't enough for me to separate Hope above a pack of teams including Augustana, Elmhurst, Washington, UWWhitewater and UWStevens Point.  So Hope slides in behind all those teams at #14 for me.

My one flier was probably UMass-Dartmouth at #9, but looking at their schedule I like their wins over Brandeis and Salem St.  The later won a good tournament in New Jersey over the Holidays.   But I'll admit they have a short leash with me and the 4 or 5 teams behind them could jump them by just winning consistently.

Also I skipped a team by accident and have already apologized to Ypsi for it, but there will be  a good jump for one team in my poll next week.  As best I can tell it would only have moved them up one spot. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 15, 2008, 09:40:26 PM
Quote from: nescac1 on January 15, 2008, 07:37:33 AM
As the guy who put UMass Dartmouth second (my only huge outlier) I'll explain my vote.

First, 13-0 is 13-0.  ...
Thanks for the explanation.  From my vantage point more than 1700 miles away, I have UM-D 17th, which was right in the middle of the votes.

The Northeast seems to be very strong this year.  Historically, the NESCAC has been the only conference in this last decade to have perennial powers in hoops.  I took the wins over good programs into consideration.

I will give them a chance to do well in conference.  The game with Tufts will be instructive, too.  Your "#2" vote tells me that UM-D is going to the Elite 8, or will have given some final four team its hardest game.

My only concern in future ballots by our colleagues is to make sure that the "outlier" is a team that one has found because of one's regional familiarity with traditional quality of play and that team's exceptionalism and not some provincialism.

I am reading your post that UM-D is that exceptional.  :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: ILive4This on January 15, 2008, 09:58:46 PM
I usually do not believe in the transitive property in the case of rankings but I believe in this case Nescac 1 may be right since UMD is undefeated. Once they receive their first loss, they will drop a bit, but still 13-0 is 13-0. I for one did not have them above Brandeis/Amherst/Williams and I will admit if I was not an attendee of one of these institutions, that may have been otherwise. Although I can not say that for certain.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 20, 2008, 05:07:29 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 15, 2008, 07:24:56 PM

I am probably responsible for my share of outliers.  I picked my ballot without looking  at the Top 25 at all.  I tried to judge by massey's schedule strength and from my own observations of opponents, etc.  I think it will even out as I continue to evaluate and more games are played.  The Macon thing is probably me.  The ODAC seems pretty strong this year and RMC seems to be playing the best right now.

Or more - and you're proud of it!  And, most importantly, last week you were right.  You were the RMC voter (though I'm not sure about THAT high); I doubt you'll be flying solo this week!  You were the low outlier for Guilford, and the only voter for Roanoke - good call.  (I on the other hand, was the high outlier for Guilford - I think Strong misses his 'twin tower' more than I anticipated.)  I was also the solo voter for Heidelberg (I was convinced they would beat Capital, and I'd feel great at the 'prescient' pick - oops).

Not the bloodbath in the top 25 of some weeks last year, but a lot of losses to process.  I hope we can regain our WIAC contingent, my CCIW colleague, our NJAC rep, and our veteran voter from NE - added to the new blood, we have the potential for a decent-sized poll.  And we'd still welcome hearing from the West Coast, as well as such non-represented states as Ohio, New York, Pennsylvania, etc.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 20, 2008, 07:16:53 PM
Mine is in.  :)

Thanks, Mr Ypsi!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: LogShow on January 20, 2008, 07:24:31 PM
Well I don't think Puget Sound well get much love this week... :-\
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 20, 2008, 09:03:23 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 20, 2008, 07:24:31 PM
Well I don't think Puget Sound well get much love this week... :-\

I actually raised them slightly, considering the alternatives!  And Whitworth (barely) entered my ballot.  Very interesting poll so far (only 3 ballots in); the top few are very stable, then it goes crazy (though 20 teams are on all three ballots, just not necessarily anywhere near each other).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 20, 2008, 10:19:33 PM
Mine could screw things up even more.  I did correct one mistake that I made last week, but again the ODAC is getting the love from me.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pbrooks3 on January 20, 2008, 10:54:08 PM
Just dropped a Poll in from a southern post - Memphis TN.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 20, 2008, 11:29:49 PM
Fantastic!  We're goin' national, baby!

Now if we could get NY, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Virginia, the left coast... .  And recoup our veterans from Wisconsin, Illinois, New Jersey, and Connecticut(?).  C'mon, guys - I'll compile, but you gotta submit! ;)

[And, David, if you're reading this, aren't you embarassed that someone else from Memphis is in, but you're not! ;D]
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 20, 2008, 11:45:01 PM
pbrooks, welcome aboard.

It is good to have another voter who sees South Region basketball.   :)

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 21, 2008, 06:11:13 AM
Decided to join the action since I have nothing better to do on these cold winter night in upper N.Y. State(40 miles from Montreal) and I did see Mr. Yipsi asking for a N.Y. voter.  I get to see a great game this coming weekend on the 26th, Plattsburgh State against Brockport State. Winner will get a leg up in the SUNYAC conference. Both teams have fared rather well against #1 Rochester. Brockport went right down to the wire against the Yellowjackets on Jan. 11th losing 75-70 at UR. Down 73-70 with under a minute to go Brockport hit a game tying 3 only to have it waved off as a ref blew his whistle stopping play for an injury right before the Bport player released the ball. And Plattsburgh was the last team to beat Rochester in the first round of the NCAA's last March. Both Rochester and Plattsburgh St. have basically the same teams back from last year and with a little luck they may meet up again this year come tourney time.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 21, 2008, 09:22:01 AM
Mine is in - tough week
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Knightstalker on January 21, 2008, 10:20:08 AM
I doubt I will get one in this week but I will try to get one in next week.  Just not sure if I have time this year to do this but I will try.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 21, 2008, 04:25:28 PM
By 9:30 this morning we were up to 7 voters (including FOUR that are new this year), but where are the veteran voters?  Let's get this up to a DOZEN!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 21, 2008, 09:03:10 PM
We're now up to 9 ballots (vs. 8 last week), but I'm holding the polls open another hour or two in hopes of hearing from some of the usual suspects (you know who you are ;)).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 21, 2008, 11:26:05 PM
POSTERS' POLL (thru 1-20-08):

1.  Rochester  225 (unanimous)

2.  Amherst   208 (2,2,2,2,3,3,3,3,6)
3.  Brandeis  207 (2,2,2,2,3,3,3,5,5)
4.  Wash U.  199 (3,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4)
5.  Hope     187 (3,4,5,5,5,5,5,6,9)

6.  UWSP    173 (5,6,6,6,7,7,8,8,8)
7.  UWW     170 (6,6,6,7,7,7,7,9,9)

8.  UM-Dart  150 (2,5,7,8,9,10,11,12,20)
9.  Williams  146 (7,8,8,10,10,10,11,12,12)
10  Capital   143 (7,8,8,9,10,11,11,13,14)
11  UPS       131 (6,9,10,10,11,12,13,14,18)
12  Augie    125 (9,10,10,12,12,13,13,14,16)

13  Elmhurst  95 (11,14,14,15,15,16,17,18,19)
14  UMHB     91 (11,11,12,12,13,17,17,24,-)
15  Centre    90 (12,13,15,16,16,16,17,18,21)

t16 Plattsburgh  73 (9,14,14,15,16,20,21,-,-)
t16 Rand-Macon 73 (8,15,15,19,19,19,21,22,23)
18  Millsaps      70 (13,14,16,17,18,18,19,23,-)
19  Va Wes      65 (9,11,17,18,18,22,24,25,25)
20  Wooster    58 (13,18,18,19,20,20,22,22,24)
21  Wheaton   57 (13,15,17,20,20,21,22,23,-)

22  Roanoke   31 (15,19,21,23,23,24,-,-,-)
23  Oshkosh   28 (14,15,21,-,-,-,-,-,-)
24  Stevens    27 (16,17,20,24,-,-,-,-,-)
25  Guilford    25 (19,20,22,22,23,25,-,-,-)

26  Ursinus   18 (16,19,25)
27  Oxy        16 (21,22,23,23,25)
28  UWPlattville  11 (17,24)
29  RIC         6 (20)
t30 Cal Lu   5 (24,24,25)
t30 CMU     5 (21)
t30 Middlebury  5 (21)
33  Elizabethtown  4 (22)
34  Lawrence       3 (23)
35  Wittenberg    2 (24)
t36 St Thomas    1
t36 Whitworth    1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 21, 2008, 11:36:35 PM
I'm happy with mine.

I have 24 of 25 and I may add the team that I "left off" next week.

We had so many teams that lost that it was hard to give so teams the votes that i did.

Paraphrasing what Pat Coleman said on Hoopsville, you gotta give a 7th place vote to someone, whether you think that they deserve it or not!   :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 21, 2008, 11:49:01 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 21, 2008, 11:36:35 PM
I'm happy with mine.

I have 24 of 25 and I may add the team that I "left off" next week.

We had so many teams that lost that it was hard to give so teams the votes that i did.

Paraphrasing what Pat Coleman said on Hoopsville, you gotta give a 7th place vote to someone, whether you think that they deserve it or not!   :)

Amen to that!  I had no problem with my top 5, but at the moment I think there are about 12-15 teams in the 10-15 range!  And my bottom 5 were veritably random from about a dozen choices.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 22, 2008, 12:10:44 AM
Anybody else have a couple teams with 5 or 6 losses who you think might really be top 25 teams right now, but you just can't justify it with their overall records?


I thought the losses last week helped to separate some teams for me.  I also evaluated the ODAC more than last week.  Ultimately 2 teams dropped of my top 25 and were both replaced by ODAC teams.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 22, 2008, 01:02:56 AM
Well, I 'confess' to being the one voter for 5-loss Witt, but they've won 9 straight since their horrid start, including AT Woo.  I NEARLY cast a vote for 9-6 Carthage, now 3-1 in the CCIW with wins over Augie and Elmhurst this past week, but I haven't quite gotten past a couple of their really, really bad losses (but I note they got 7 points in the 'real' poll - somebody has noticed them).

Any others you had in mind?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 22, 2008, 01:48:23 AM
Good job Mr. Ypsi

I thought we came up with a fairly good list. Seemed to agree on the top 7 pretty much. I had 24 out of 25 omitting Guilford in favor of Oxy. I also nearly picked Carthage on the strength of those 2 big wins. Brockport State with 5 losses also had me thinking but I'll wait until after this weeks games. They made it to the great 8 last year and returned nearly the entire team. Considered E-town but they've played a pretty soft schedule to get that guady 13-1 record.

Sorry about the extra i in your name yeterday. Didn't have my glasses on.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 22, 2008, 09:07:44 AM
Casting a skeptical eye at Carthage, they beat an-above average Trinity TX team, but lost a very ugly game to a very, very average Southwestern on the Trinity court on the second night.  They look like "6-losses" to me, because they haven't put it together for a Poll.  (If they win the CCIW with an 11-3 mark, then as Bob Quillman noted on Hoopsville, that has historical context.)

If we are going to give Carthage some love after a long road trip, then the entire ASC and SCAC desire love for their road trips!

A 187-mile 3hr 20 minute trip from Carthage (Kenosha WI) on the north to Illinois Wesleyan (Bloomington IL) on the south is just an average intra-division road trip for the ASC.  (Please check the SCAC message boards for the on-going discussions about road trips in the SCAC.)

I think that travel is finally entering the consciousness of our fans as a major factor in team strength of "polling".
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 22, 2008, 09:26:49 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 21, 2008, 11:36:35 PM
I'm happy with mine.

I have 24 of 25 and I may add the team that I "left off" next week.

You conformist! I'm trying to make sure the MAN doesn't keep my teams down! Heh.  :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: kiltedbryan on January 22, 2008, 12:10:32 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 22, 2008, 01:02:56 AM
Well, I 'confess' to being the one voter for 5-loss Witt, but they've won 9 straight since their horrid start, including AT Woo.

Ypsi, the Wooster-Witt game from this weekend was played at Wittenberg.

Keep an eye on Witt- they have two tough road games at Ohio Wesleyan and at Wabash coming up in the next two weeks...and they actually do still have to go to Wooster, in February.

The NCAC is playing tighter at the top than it has in past years: Games among the top four (Woo, Witt, Wabash and OWU) have been tight and hard-fought- much closer to parity in the league than in past years I think.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 22, 2008, 12:26:10 PM
Quote from: kiltedbryan on January 22, 2008, 12:10:32 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 22, 2008, 01:02:56 AM
Well, I 'confess' to being the one voter for 5-loss Witt, but they've won 9 straight since their horrid start, including AT Woo.

Ypsi, the Wooster-Witt game from this weekend was played at Wittenberg.

Keep an eye on Witt- they have two tough road games at Ohio Wesleyan and at Wabash coming up in the next two weeks...and they actually do still have to go to Wooster, in February.

The NCAC is playing tighter at the top than it has in past years: Games among the top four (Woo, Witt, Wabash and OWU) have been tight and hard-fought- much closer to parity in the league than in past years I think.

Man, I got to get this 'dyslexia' checked!  Already this season I've had about 3 scores reversed, and now I'm doing it with locations. :-[

True about the NCAC.  Most years it has been the Big 10 of the 70s - the Big Two and the Little ..., but this year I've got 4 NCAC teams in the top 8 in sac's GL poll.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 22, 2008, 01:01:46 PM
I'm not going to cry for a team losing after a long bus trip.  They've been doing it for years with 20 year old kids, they (the school) should know how to handle it by now.

If your approaching a game like you'll lose because you sat on a bus for a long time, then yes you'll probably lose and its good to know you have a ready made excuse.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 22, 2008, 02:46:14 PM
Quote from: sac on January 22, 2008, 01:01:46 PM
I'm not going to cry for a team losing after a long bus trip.  They've been doing it for years with 20 year old kids, they (the school) should know how to handle it by now.

If your approaching a game like you'll lose because you sat on a bus for a long time, then yes you'll probably lose and its good to know you have a ready made excuse.
Then Carthage is just another run-of-the-mill 6-loss team.   :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 22, 2008, 03:07:08 PM
Yeah, lots of 6-loss teams have back-to-back wins over top-15 teams, and are in first place in a top conference! ;)

But, so far they haven't overcome my misgivings about some of those losses, Southwestern and East-West being the two most grievous.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 22, 2008, 04:27:47 PM
I toyed with the idea of Carthage as well, but couldn't do it, mostly based on what I saw from them in their games against Hope & Calvin.  But they are on the radar, the wins over Augie and Elmhurst earned them that.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 27, 2008, 10:22:02 AM
I have borrowed David Collinge's HOW THEY FARED from the D3hooops.com Top 25 for our review.




HOW THEY FARED (week of Jan. 21-27)       
      
#   1   Rochester (14-1) lost at Emory 81-76 (OT) and plays at Case Western Reserve Sun.
#   2   Brandeis (12-3) lost to Chicago 79-77 and hosts #4 Washington U. Sun.
#   3   Amherst (16-2) won at So. Vermont 113-87, won at Middlebury 83-66, and won at #10 Williams 86-70
#   4   Washington U. (13-2) won at NYU 57-50 and plays at #2 Brandeis Sun.
#   5   Hope (14-2) won at Alma 81-55 and won at Calvin 79-76
#   6   UW-Whitewater (14-3) lost to UW-Platteville 79-73 and won at UW-Superior 86-55
#   7   UW-Stevens Point (14-4) def. UW-Eau Claire 57-44 and lost at #20 UW-Oshkosh 73-61
#   8   Mass.-Dartmouth (17-0) won at Rhode Island Coll. 77-70 and def. Western Conn. 72-67
#   9   Capital (15-2) def. Marietta 79-53 and won at Baldwin-Wallace 77-71
#   10   Williams (15-3) def. Trinity (CT) 65-48 and lost to #3 Amherst 86-70
#   11   Puget Sound (14-2) won at Lewis & Clark 92-87 (OT) and won at Willamette 90-75
#   12   Augustana (13-4) def. Millikin 71-63 and def. North Central (IL) 70-60
#   13   Elmhurst (13-4) won at North Park 66-39 and lost to #22 Wheaton (IL) 79-75 (OT)
#   14   Centre (14-1) def. #18 Millsaps 90-80 (OT) and hosts Hendrix Sun.
#   15   Mary Hardin-Baylor (13-3) def. Howard Payne 86-65 and def. Sul Ross St. 88-76
#   16   Virginia Wesleyan (13-3) def. Eastern Mennonite 97-92 and def. #19 Randolph-Macon 56-38
#   17   Plattsburgh St. (14-2) def. Geneseo St. 66-44 and def. Brockport St. 81-78 (OT)
#   18   Millsaps (14-2) lost at #14 Centre 90-80 (OT) and plays at DePauw Sun.
#   19   Randolph-Macon (14-3) def. Bridgewater (VA) 70-55 and lost at #16 Virginia Wesleyan 56-38
#   20   UW-Oshkosh (13-5) lost at Lawrence 81-78 and def. #7 UW-Stevens Point 73-61
#   21   Stevens (13-2) def. Drew 77-64 and plays at Elmira Sun.
#   22   Wheaton (IL) (13-4) lost at Illinois Wesleyan 63-60 and won at #13 Elmhurst 79-75 (OT)
#   23   Wooster (14-3) def. Denison 97-57 and def. Earlham 89-68
#   24   Roanoke (12-3) lost at Guilford 92-56, won at Hampden-Sydney 67-65, and hosts Lynchburg Sun.
#   25   Elizabethtown (14-2) lost at Lycoming 79-78 (OT) and def. Messiah 84-68



There should be plenty of debate as to the new #1 this week.  With the turmoil in the Top 25 (that can only represent parity),  Rochester held the B*lt and lost it to Emory.  Brandeis lost at home!

Part of the "Myth" of being #1 is defending the ranking against all comers.   Let's see what happens today!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 27, 2008, 03:24:18 PM
This week is gonna be "fun"!  At least last week I was pretty darn sure who was #1 and who the top 5 were; this week I don't even have that starting point! ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pbrooks3 on January 27, 2008, 06:16:53 PM
My Top 25 Poll is in from Memphis for this week.
Title: TOP 5
Post by: pbrooks3 on January 27, 2008, 06:35:42 PM
My top 5 for this week is:

Wash U
Amherst
Rochester
Hope
Mass-Dartmouth
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 27, 2008, 06:52:22 PM


Because of all the losses this week, I scrapped my list and went back to the drawing board.  I went through every conference, as I did the first week, to determine which school might be in consideration, then ranked them from top to bottom.  I didn't let the previous rankings interfere with my decision making.

In all, I ranked 51 schools.  The biggest surprise was how far Brandeis dropped.  for a team I once had at #1, they are now #20 on my list.  They went from "a great team that beat Amherst" to "a team who, outside of Amherst" didn't beat anyone they weren't supposed to beat and lost a few more."

The only anomaly I'm finding is that 16 of my top 28 are from just four conferences.  I'm sure that will work itself out as the conference seasons progress.

I am waiting until I get a score in the Roanoke-Lynchburg game to submit.  That may change my order near the bottom.
Title: Re: TOP 5
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 27, 2008, 06:52:57 PM


Mine:

1.   Amherst
2.   WashU
3.   Hope
4.   Rochester
5.   Stevens Point
Title: Re: TOP 5
Post by: David Collinge on January 27, 2008, 06:54:54 PM
Isn't this why we have a "poster's poll?"
Title: Re: TOP 5
Post by: smedindy on January 27, 2008, 07:00:54 PM
Yep, rally 'round the posters poll!
Title: Re: TOP 5
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 27, 2008, 07:04:44 PM
Quote from: smedindy on January 27, 2008, 07:00:54 PM
Yep, rally 'round the posters poll!

Fear not, both of them already do.  (So I will be the only person to know whether their public disclosures march their secret ballot! ;D)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 27, 2008, 09:25:45 PM
Mine is in!   :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: LogShow on January 27, 2008, 10:26:04 PM
Looking forward to see what the posters poll brings this week!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 27, 2008, 10:35:35 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 27, 2008, 10:26:04 PM
Looking forward to see what the posters poll brings this week!

Just a teaser then:

Already have six ballots in (I believe that is a record for Sunday evening!), and 3 different teams have gotten votes for first, and 4 teams have second place votes - I'm just not gonna say who they are! ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: LogShow on January 27, 2008, 11:07:29 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 27, 2008, 10:35:35 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 27, 2008, 10:26:04 PM
Looking forward to see what the posters poll brings this week!

Just a teaser then:

Already have six ballots in (I believe that is a record for Sunday evening!), and 3 different teams have gotten votes for first, and 4 teams have second place votes - I'm just not gonna say who they are! ;)

That doesn't surprise me with all the losses this weekend...but like I have said before that's what makes conference play so great!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Marty Peretz on January 28, 2008, 12:08:37 AM
My Top 25
1) Wash.U.
2) Amherst
3) Hope
4) Rochester
5) UMass-Dartmouth
6) Puget Sound
7) Capital
8) Augustana
9) Whitewater
10) Stevens Point
11) Brandeis
12) Centre
13) VWU
14) Mary Hardin Baylor
15) Plattsburgh
16) Williams
17) Elmhurst
18) Wooster
19) Stevens
20) Platteville
21) Oshkosh
22) Guilford
23) Wheaton
24) Randolph Macon
25) Emerson
Title: Re: TOP 5
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 28, 2008, 12:28:04 AM
Why don't you just merge the two.
Title: Re: TOP 5
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 28, 2008, 09:11:16 AM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on January 28, 2008, 12:28:04 AM
Why don't you just merge the two.


Done and done.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 28, 2008, 11:54:23 AM
Marty, I've taken the liberty of scoring your post as an 'official' ballot - welcome to PP as our first UAA rep! :)

We're now up to 8 ballots - let's go for the record (12 on several occasions).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 28, 2008, 02:23:35 PM
Mine's in
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 28, 2008, 03:06:54 PM
This has been the most intriguing week ever to be compiling the ballots - with every new submission, the line-up changes a bit!  Right now, with 9 ballots, we have a tie for first and a tie for third (and numerous other spots too close to call)!

Later voters, unlike the usual primary season (though maybe not this year!), your votes WILL make a difference! ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 28, 2008, 09:32:45 PM

What's holding up the PP?  Is it my ridiculously unconventional ballot?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 28, 2008, 09:34:31 PM
Ten ballots in, and past the posted deadline, but I'd really hoped for a new record!  One last chance - I'll start typing the results in about an hour.

MANY poll slots still up for grabs!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 28, 2008, 10:52:25 PM
Through 1-27-08:

1.  Amherst    242 (1,1,1,2,2,2,2,2,2,3)
2.  Wash U    241 (1,1,1,1,1,2,2,3,3,4)
3.  Rochester  225 (1,2,3,3,4,4,4,4,4,6)
4.  Hope        222 (2,3,3,3,3,4,4,4,5,7)
5.  UMD         208 (1,3,4,5,5,5,5,6,6,12)
6.  Capital    195 (5,5,5,6,6,67,7,9,9)

7.  Augie       165 (5,6,8,8,9,10,10,10,12,17)
8.  UPS         161 (6,6,7,7,7,7,9,11,13,-)
9.  UWSP      155 (5,8,8,10,10,11,11,13,14,15)
10 Williams   146 (8,8,9,10,10,10,11,16,16,16)
11 UWW       140 (7,7,8,9,11,12,13,14,14,15)
12 Brandeis   133 (7, 10,11,11,12,12,12,14,18,20)
13 Va Wes     131 (8,9,10, 13,13,14,14,14,15,19)
14 Centre      127 (8,9,11,12,12,13,13,16,16,23)
15 UMHB        115 (9,12,12,13,14,14,15,15,15,-)
16 Plattsburgh 104 (6,11,15,15,15,16,16,18,18,-)

17 Wooster    76 (11,17,17,18,18,18,19,19,22,25)

18 UWP          52 (8,13,17,20,23,23,23,-,-,-)
19 Elmhurst    49 (16,17,21,21,21,21,21,21,-,-)
20 RMC           46 (14,19,20,20,20,22,23,24,-,-)
21 Stevens     44 (17,18,19,19,20,21,24,-,-,-)
22 Oshkosh    43 (17,17,18,20,21,23,23,-,-,-)
23 Guilford     38 (17,19,19,20,21,22,-,-,-,-)
24 Lawrence  35 (15, 18,19,22,23,25,25,-,-,-)
t25 Oxy          24 (17,20,22,24,24,25,-,-,-,-)
t25 Ursinus    24 (13,19,22)

27 St.Thomas  23 (16,20,21,25,25)
t28 Carthage  19 (9,24)
t28 Wheaton   19 (22,22,22,23,24.24)
t30 Roanoke    10 (22,23,24,25)
t30 Willy Pat    10 (16)
32 Chicago       8 (18)
33 Millsaps       3 (24,25)
34 Whitworth   2 (24)
t35 Bowdoin     1
t35 Emerson     1

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 28, 2008, 11:02:31 PM
Very interesting that WashU get 5 1st place votes, Amherst 3........and Amherst is #1

Whats up with Puget Sound not getting a vote?

Bottom of the poll is just utter chaos isn't it.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 29, 2008, 12:10:34 AM
sac, I can't really comment on your first two observations without breaking 'omerta' on the poll!

The bottom was actually less fractured than I expected after all those low-end defeats - I'm accustomed to typing 40+ names!  (I do think Wheaton may have set a record for most votes without making the top 25 - they just had no specific 'champion' - note they tied CCIW colleague Carthage, despite being named on 6 ballots vs. 2.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 29, 2008, 01:06:50 AM
Washington not being #1 has that 4th place vote to thank.  But this Friday's game against UR in Rochester and Amherst-Bowdoin matchup on Sat. just might  give us some more turmoil at the top for next week's poll.



Anyone want to own up to that 4th place vote? Mr. Y knows but I'm sure his lips are sealed.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 29, 2008, 01:22:10 AM
Quote from: magicman on January 29, 2008, 01:06:50 AM
Washington not being #1 has that 4th place vote to thank.  But this Friday's game against UR in Rochester and Amherst-Bowdoin matchup on Sat. just might  give us some more turmoil at the top for next week's poll.



Anyone want to own up to that 4th place vote? Mr. Y knows but I'm sure his lips are sealed.

Yeah, I could tell ya, but then I'd have to kill ya! ;D

I am disappointed in my 'rebel' nature - every team I picked was picked by at least 5 voters!  I've usually got at least one 'orphan'. ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 29, 2008, 01:44:22 AM
Mr. Y.

Never mind. Just discovered that Marty made it public knowledge when he posted his top 25 late Sunday night.

I didn't have any orphans either. Actually quite a lot of agreement between the 10 posters. Only surprise to me is how 3 teams UPS, Plattsburgh St., and MHB fail to get votes on all 10 ballots. They've been in the D3 poll all year so I think you've got to rank them somewhere on the list. But hey, everyone's got their reasons. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 29, 2008, 02:00:57 AM
I thought Oxy would climb back into the D3 poll this week but they fell a few votes shy. And they just lost one of their top scorers last week, inside guy Joe Sasich for the rest of the year.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: LogShow on January 29, 2008, 02:44:27 AM
Well I was a bit suprised to see that Puget Sound actually wasn't on a ballot, considering that they have been in the Top 25 all year and only have 2 losses.  I can only come up with 2 answers.  The pollster is...

1) A Lewis & Clark backer and is still very upset about the UPS comback this weekend ;D.

or

2) A new pollster who just ins't familiar with UPS.  I would invite you to learn more about the UPS ball team on this website or at http://www.ups.edu/mbasketball.xml
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: LogShow on January 29, 2008, 02:46:52 AM
All in all though it just gives us something else to discuss, and it doesn't really have any implications so no biggie...To quote The Dude, "That's just your opinion...man."   :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 29, 2008, 09:13:11 AM
Quote from: LogShow on January 29, 2008, 02:44:27 AM
Well I was a bit suprised to see that Puget Sound actually wasn't on a ballot, considering that they have been in the Top 25 all year and only have 2 losses.  I can only come up with 2 answers.  The pollster is...

1) A Lewis & Clark backer and is still very upset about the UPS comback this weekend ;D.

or

2) A new pollster who just ins't familiar with UPS.  I would invite you to learn more about the UPS ball team on this website or at http://www.ups.edu/mbasketball.xml

Neither one.  It was me.  Like I said in a previous post, because most of my conceptions of these teams were shot to pieces over the last week, I decided to avoid looking at previous rankings and go back to the starting board.  I went through every conference and chose the teams that I thought deserved consideration.  I then went and ranked all of them (I think 52 in all).  Puget Sound's schedule and results were just not as impressive as they were three weeks ago.  I'm not in doubt that they'll move up eventually, but they aren't there yet.

In fact Ypsi sent me a message to make sure I intentionally left UPS, Plattsburgh, and Mary Hardin Baylor.  Plattsburgh was the only one I reconsidered and I may regret the decision to leave them off in the future.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: LogShow on January 29, 2008, 12:39:06 PM
The only difference between now and 3 weeks ago is that Puget Sound has 5 more wins and 1 more loss, their first against D3.  Granted the loss was at home (inexcusable) but Whitworth is a solid team, that might crack the Top 25 in the next poll.  At 14-2 Puget Sound did play some questionable teams, but they also did beat two D2 teams, and for what its worth UW-Stout.  Also I believe they are ranked 12th in the Massey and ofcourse 7th in the latest Top 25 poll...okay enough politicing :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 29, 2008, 01:09:14 PM
Now that Hoops has 'outed' himself, I'll add that his omissions probably made no difference in the standings (except for Puget Sound).  If he had voted UPS at least 21st, they would have passed Augie for 7th, but even a first place vote wouldn't have been enough to catch Cap for 6th.  He would have needed to voted UMHB at least 13th to pass Centre, or Plattsburgh at least 14th to pass UMHB.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 29, 2008, 01:09:53 PM
UPS is 13th in Massey and 77th in SOS. Those are pretty stout figures! Plattsburgh and UMHB are well below that. Here's a place where I'd use Massey to rethink.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: NW Hope Fan on January 29, 2008, 01:16:08 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 29, 2008, 12:39:06 PM
The only difference between now and 3 weeks ago is that Puget Sound has 5 more wins and 1 more loss, their first against D3.  Granted the loss was at home (inexcusable) but Whitworth is a solid team, that might crack the Top 25 in the next poll.  At 14-2 Puget Sound did play some questionable teams, but they also did beat two D2 teams, and for what its worth UW-Stout.  Also I believe they are ranked 12th in the Massey and of course 7th in the latest Top 25 poll...okay enough politicking :D

I didn't vote, but...

I believe good teams should win close games (such as my Dutchmen on Saturday), but minus a few glaring coaching errors, LC beats UPS on Friday and finds themselves deep in the poll on Monday.

That being said, I was impressed with the comeback and win, and while I don't see many teams doing what LC did in the first half on Friday, I say UPS beware!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 29, 2008, 04:18:08 PM
I had about 15 teams for the final 5 slots.  I went with what I went with; I do expect it to change and UPS has a lot of room to prove themselves to me, as the NWC is a rough road to run through.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 29, 2008, 10:38:55 PM
Time to 'fess up...

I am the poster who gave Carthage the 9th place vote.

I listened to Bob Quillman on Hoopsville comment about Steve Djurickovich's development and growth into the college game.

In a fit of "madness", I juggled all of my CCIW teams accordingly and put Carthage in at the top.

Bob specifically answered my question about the very ugly game versus  Southwestern at Trinity, an 82-72 loss.  This is a weak SU team, but the 56-49 win over Trinity TX the night before is what I would expect in that game.  Trinity has had trouble with ASC-West teams this year, a 67-65 win over TLU at home and only a 66-64 home win over HSU a week later.

I am assuming that Djurickovich is the difference, and Titan Q's assessment is prescient about how good this Carthage team can be as Steve develops.

I will give Carthage a week or two to earn that ranking or one relative to it.

That was the only major outlier that I had, and I wanted to "own up" to that assessment.  Now how far it is from #5 to #50 in the country is probably about 3 possessions on a neutral floor 1000 miles away from both teams.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 29, 2008, 11:06:36 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 29, 2008, 10:38:55 PM

I am assuming that Djurickovich is the difference, and Titan Q's assessment is prescient about how good this Carthage team can be as Steve develops.

I would say its Fendley who was missing from the MIAA/CCIW Challenge in early December and did not return untill late December (after the E/W debacle and trip to Texas? ? ?).  Carthage lost both those games rather easily, neither final reflects the actual ease with which Hope and Calvin won those games.

Anyone who saw Carthage over those two days would be surprised to see them where they are, I don't think there any question having Fendley back on the floor has made a huge difference.  I wish I could see them in person now, because I still can't wrap my arms around how Carthage is leading the CCIW after seeing them in early December.  The only logical jump I can make is having another experienced offensive and defensive weapon on the floor.

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Titan Q on January 29, 2008, 11:35:58 PM
Carthage is a different team than they were back mid-December, when they faced Trinity and Southwestern.  Sharp-shooting sophomore Sean Fendley made his season debut in the Trinity game, going 1-4 from 3 in 18 minutes off the bench.  Against Southwestern he was 1-8 in 21 minutes.

Bosko Djurickovic inserted Fendley, a 2-guard, into the starting lineup for the Red Men's first CCIW game, at Wheaton.  It really changed their lineup as it moved freshman sensation Steve Djurickovic (23.4 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 3.7 apg) from the 3 to the point, and former PG Joe Higgins went to the bench.  Higgins is a good ball-handler and passer, but he just is not a scoring threat at all (1.9 ppg in 29 min/game this year).  So with Fendley, Carthage now has one more serious scoring threat on the floor.

In CCIW play, Fendley is 13th in scoring (13.7 ppg) and is a very impressive 18-35 (.514) from 3-point range.  His impact has been enormous for the Red Men in a lot of ways, including the fact that his presence has allowed Djurickovic to shift to the point, where he's been outstanding.

Carthage played Hope and Calvin without Fendley, back when non-scoring threat Joe Higgins was the point-guard and Djurickovic was the 3.  They played Trinity and Southwestern with a Fendley that was just settling in after missing a lot of time with injury.  I am not 100% sold on Carthage myself, but they are a much, much better basketball team than they were in December.  That I'm sure of.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 29, 2008, 11:40:10 PM
So in summary, Ralph may be ahead of the curve with Carthage.  ;)

For me at least I have them on the radar and have looked at them 2 weeks in a row.  But there are just so many teams with better records out there, they just miss my cut.  But keep winning in a conference I respect alot and those early season losses won't mean as much down the road.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: LogShow on January 29, 2008, 11:44:36 PM
This is what I love about the Poster's Poll.  It flushes out lots of discussion that never would have happened
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 30, 2008, 01:07:16 AM
Nice to see all the honesty surfacing on this board.

Carthage certainly giving voters something to think about. I believe they will crack the top 25 in our poll next week if they win both of this week's games. Not sure that's going to happen though. I think they'll beat North Park and lose to the Titans on Sat. Even if they win both of those games I doubt they'll crack the D3 poll from their present 35th spot. Tough to make up for those early season losses. Now if they can somehow manage to win their next 5 games to take control of the conference then they will get that recognition and then some. Probably too much to ask though.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 30, 2008, 01:38:16 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 29, 2008, 11:44:36 PM
This is what I love about the Poster's Poll.  It flushes out lots of discussion that never would have happened

That has certainly been my hope all along!

A basic (unstated) issue is how much (if at all) should 'gut instinct' about now (e.g., taking into account missing players, changes in style, etc.) overrule total season performance?  For example, my 'gut' says that Carthage is now one of the top 15 teams in the country (and I really tried to fit them in somewhere, but just couldn't make it work), but so far December is just not yet enough 'distant past'!  Another example that I've wrestled with: Guilford.  Now that Tyler Sanborn is back to take some of the pressure off Ben Strong, I 'feel' they are a very legitmate threat to reach Salem.  But with their actual on-court results to date, I just couldn't get them higher than 20th (and 4 voters left them off entirely).

As the cliche goes: injuries are part of the game.  But since we are trying to rate teams 'now', how do we properly weigh actual results vs. 'what might have been'?  What is the proper balance between recent performance and total performance?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 30, 2008, 02:32:00 PM

I had Carthage at #3 in the CCIW and it was close between them and Wheaton based on results of late.  I just didn't have the CCIW as high this year.  I think there are more competitive teams in the conference this year, but the ceiling may be a bit lower than it's been in the recent past.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 30, 2008, 03:11:09 PM
Obviously the #1 vote was the biggest one last week, I moved Amherst into that slot, I had them #2 the week before so it wasn't really that hard for me.  Curious how others approached the #1 spot.


Also, I've struggled the UW's, and once again find myself ranking them right next to each other.  I see that there's quite a wide range of difference in them, I moved UW-Platteville into my poll and debuted them rather high at #13.  Platteville's probably the only team I would consider an outlyer from my poll.......other than the usual differences in teams in the bottom of the poll.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 30, 2008, 03:46:00 PM
Amherst was the logical #1 for me based on my previous polls.

I think the CCIW is creating a WIAC-style "let's just beat the tar out of each other" model this season so that it's hard to get a real read on how good many of those teams really are right now. Carthage has improved, but I take the entire body of work into consideration.

Even if their shooting guard and I share a name!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 30, 2008, 06:13:49 PM
Quote from: sac on January 30, 2008, 03:11:09 PM
Obviously the #1 vote was the biggest one last week, I moved Amherst into that slot, I had them #2 the week before so it wasn't really that hard for me.  Curious how others approached the #1 spot.


Also, I've struggled the UW's, and once again find myself ranking them right next to each other.  I see that there's quite a wide range of difference in them, I moved UW-Platteville into my poll and debuted them rather high at #13.  Platteville's probably the only team I would consider an outlyer from my poll.......other than the usual differences in teams in the bottom of the poll.

What's interesting to me sac is the fact that UWSP, UW Whitewater, and UW Oshkosh all lost last week...  and it's interesting to note in what way they changed in the top 25 rating.

Whitewater had been at #6 with 472 votes.  Point was #7 with 461 votes.  Oshkosh was #20 with 168, and Platteville was ORV (4th team RV with 48 points).  Just for some context, Lawrence was also ORV (11th team RV with 10 points).

WW lost 99 points and 2 positions to 373 and 8th after losing to previously RV Platte.  Point lost 139 points and 5 positions dropping to 322 and 12th.  Oshkosh beat previously #7 Point, but also lost to previously RV Lawrence, stayed at #20 but lost 42 points.  Platte (beat #6 WW) gained 63 points and went from effective 26th (4th RV) to 22nd.  Lawrence beat #20 Oshkosh, gained 128 points and went from effective 26th (11th RV) to 19th.

What's amazing to me is this... apparently, the loss by Whitewater to Platteville wasn't as bad a loss as Point's to Oshkosh, even though Oshkosh had been ranked higher, and Point lost AT Oshkosh, while Platte had to go TO WW for the win.  Also, Lawrence's win against Oshkosh was better than Platteville's in against Whitewater, even though WW had been ranked 14 places ahead of Oshy.

... Now, I know that what I'm doing is along the lines of comparative scores... but it's interesting to view, nonetheless.


Also, I realize that this board is the PP board and not the top 25, but I think that there's more discussion here about where teams should be ranked etc than on the top 25 board.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 30, 2008, 06:45:31 PM
Hey, PS, if you're gonna use the PP board, you've gotta resume voting in the PP! ;D

We've missed you, Old School, Greg Sager, Knightstalker, and formerbant this year (apologies if I omitted any other former regulars).  And ILive4This and Marty Peretz, I hope you will become regulars.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: LogShow on January 30, 2008, 10:15:52 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 30, 2008, 01:38:16 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 29, 2008, 11:44:36 PM
This is what I love about the Poster's Poll.  It flushes out lots of discussion that never would have happened

That has certainly been my hope all along!

A basic (unstated) issue is how much (if at all) should 'gut instinct' about now (e.g., taking into account missing players, changes in style, etc.) overrule total season performance?  For example, my 'gut' says that Carthage is now one of the top 15 teams in the country (and I really tried to fit them in somewhere, but just couldn't make it work), but so far December is just not yet enough 'distant past'!  Another example that I've wrestled with: Guilford.  Now that Tyler Sanborn is back to take some of the pressure off Ben Strong, I 'feel' they are a very legitmate threat to reach Salem.  But with their actual on-court results to date, I just couldn't get them higher than 20th (and 4 voters left them off entirely).

As the cliche goes: injuries are part of the game.  But since we are trying to rate teams 'now', how do we properly weigh actual results vs. 'what might have been'?  What is the proper balance between recent performance and total performance?

To me, I would think that you would have to vote based on past preformance.  If a strong team, that has been struggling, gets a top player back I wouldn't necessarily increase their position...but once the team's improvement is legitimized by winning a few games, I would say rank 'em wherever seems fit
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 03, 2008, 01:32:58 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 29, 2008, 09:13:11 AM
  Plattsburgh was the only one I reconsidered and I may regret the decision to leave them off in the future.


Hopefully 3 more road wins by Plattsburgh this week & a nice article in D3Hoops Around The Nation will change that from "may regret" to I do regret. ;D  Just kidding!!!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pbrooks3 on February 03, 2008, 07:28:28 PM
My top 25 from Memphis is in for this week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 03, 2008, 07:44:51 PM
Mine is in! :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 03, 2008, 08:10:49 PM
Me, I'm watching the SB!  I'll catch up later. ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 03, 2008, 08:17:04 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 03, 2008, 08:10:49 PM
Me, I'm watching the SB!  I'll catch up later. ;)
IHMO, Tom Petty's halftime performance is the best one that the NFL has had in the past few years!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: fpc85 on February 03, 2008, 08:22:59 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 03, 2008, 08:17:04 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 03, 2008, 08:10:49 PM
Me, I'm watching the SB!  I'll catch up later. ;)
IHMO, Tom Petty's halftime performance is the best one that the NFL has had in the past few years!
He was good....although my daugher (16) didnt know who he was :(
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pbrooks3 on February 03, 2008, 08:25:49 PM
Ditto on Petty; liked everything he played.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 03, 2008, 08:41:49 PM
Quote from: fpc85 on February 03, 2008, 08:22:59 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 03, 2008, 08:17:04 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 03, 2008, 08:10:49 PM
Me, I'm watching the SB!  I'll catch up later. ;)
IHMO, Tom Petty's halftime performance is the best one that the NFL has had in the past few years!
He was good....although my daugher (16) didnt know who he was :(
Hmmm...she needs a remedial course in classical music!   ::)
(Does she know who Lennon and McCarthy were?)   ???
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 03, 2008, 10:39:51 PM
Ralph, I'm not sure about Lennon and McCarthy either?  Though I DO remember Lennon and McCartney! ;D

I had an epiphany during the SB tonite - the single dumbest thing in all of sports has got to be stopping the game for a measurement!  Think about it:

1. The chains are marked by eyeballing from many yards away by the least trained members of the officiating crew.  If they are within +/- 6 inches it is probably by accident (and NOBODY would be pleased to have them set by coming out for a measurement with every first down).

2. The spot on almost ANY down is by rapid decision (often blocked by several bodies, and with the ballcarrier trying to shove the ball forward); if it is within +/- 6 inches it is probably by accident.

3. But we must be PRECISE - stop the game to measure!

This rant courtesy of a measurement in the late first half of the SB, first down by 2 inches!  Only problem was that the video showed the spot was generous by nearly two yards!  [But the eventual call was precise! ::)]

Moral: if you can't be accurate, at least be precise! ;D

Back to tallying the PP shortly! :-*
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 03, 2008, 10:46:19 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 03, 2008, 08:17:04 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 03, 2008, 08:10:49 PM
Me, I'm watching the SB!  I'll catch up later. ;)
IHMO, Tom Petty's halftime performance is the best one that the NFL has had in the past few years!

It was noted he played nothing new, maybe thats a good thing.  But he looked good and sounded better.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 03, 2008, 11:03:58 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 03, 2008, 10:39:51 PM
Ralph, I'm not sure about Lennon and McCarthy either?  Though I DO remember Lennon and McCartney! ;D
Duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Big time brain burp on stimulus overload!

:P :o ::)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 04, 2008, 05:33:55 PM

You're going to have to go without my ballot this week.  The internet went out at my place this weekend and it won't be back up until Friday.  I'll be back to voting next week, but it's just not realistic today.  Sorry.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 04, 2008, 05:48:19 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 04, 2008, 05:33:55 PM

You're going to have to go without my ballot this week.  The internet went out at my place this weekend and it won't be back up until Friday.  I'll be back to voting next week, but it's just not realistic today.  Sorry.

Did I just hear relieved sighs from Plattsburgh, UMHB, and Puget Sound?! ;D

Guys, we've been stuck on 6 ballots since this morning - let's make double-digits!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: LogShow on February 04, 2008, 09:03:35 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 04, 2008, 05:48:19 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 04, 2008, 05:33:55 PM

You're going to have to go without my ballot this week.  The internet went out at my place this weekend and it won't be back up until Friday.  I'll be back to voting next week, but it's just not realistic today.  Sorry.

Did I just hear relieved sighs from Plattsburgh, UMHB, and Puget Sound?! ;D

Guys, we've been stuck on 6 ballots since this morning - let's make double-digits!

Haha...Puget Sound did lose this weekend, but hopefully they will still be on everyones ballots
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 04, 2008, 10:16:39 PM
Any ballots in the pipeline, or am I going to have to publish a poll with only 7 voters? :-[
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 04, 2008, 11:23:09 PM
Posters' Poll:

1.  Amherst    175 (unanimous)
2.  UMD          167 (2,2,2,2,2,2,3)

3.  Rochester  151 (2,3,4,4,6,6,6)
4.  UWW         148 (3,4,4,5,5,6,7)
5.  Augie         143 (3,5,5,5,5,7,9)
t6  Hope         130 (3,6,8,8,8,8,11)
t6  Brandeis    130 (3,3,5,7,10,12,12)

8.  Centre       114 (6,7,8,10,11,12,14)
9.  UWSP        113 (4,7,10,10,11,13,14)
10  Wash U    112 (7,9,9,9,10,10,16)
11  Capital     105 (8,8,10,12,12,13,14)
12  UPS            96 (7,9,11,11,14,16,18)
13  UMHB         95 (9,12,12,13,13,13,13)
14  Plattsburgh 94 (4,11,11,14,14,17,17)
15  UWP            85 (4,6,15,17,17,18,20)
16  Wooster      83 (9,13,15,15,15,16,16)

17  Guilford       61 (14,16,16,17,17,20,21)
18  Va Wes      56 (15,16,17,18,19,20,21)
t19  Oxy          42 (15,18,19,20,21,23,24)
t19  St Thomas 42 (15,19,19,20,21,22,24)
21  Elmhurst    27 (19,20,21,23,23,24,25)
22  Stevens    23 (18,19,20,23)
t23  Williams   17 (18,21,22)
t23  UWO        17 (18,21,22)
25  Lawrence  16 (22,22,22,23,25)

26  Ursinus      12 (19,23,24)
27  Millsaps       7 (22,23)
28  Cal Lu         5 (24,24,25)
29  RMC           3 (23)
t30  Chicago    1
t30  DePauw   1
t30  Wheaton  1
t30  Whitworth 1

Hopefully our record-low 7 voters was a one-time Super Bowl glitch!

Note the top 21 teams were named on every ballot (I'm sure that is a first)!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: LogShow on February 05, 2008, 12:30:09 AM
I think its interesting that Lawrence gets 5 votes, but still trails Williams and UWO (only 3 votes).  I'll chalk it up to the small sample size.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2008, 12:40:16 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 05, 2008, 12:30:09 AM
I think its interesting that Lawrence gets 5 votes, but still trails Williams and UWO (only 3 votes).  I'll chalk it up to the small sample size.

Exactly.  Outliers make a huge difference with such a small sample.  The 18th place votes for Williams and UWO count as much as TWO 22nd place votes, and the 21st comes to one more point than the 23rd and 25th put together.

It's even more striking comparing UWP and Wooster.  4 of the 7 voters for UWP put them below Woo's lowest placement, but the 4th and 6th place votes put them over the top.

Moral of the story: we need more voters next week!  (Super Bowl hangovers should be cured by then! ;D)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 08, 2008, 07:51:32 PM

I am reconnected now.  I'll have to catch up on two weeks worth of happenings this weekend, but I should be ready to screw up the voting once again.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: LogShow on February 09, 2008, 01:59:12 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 08, 2008, 07:51:32 PM

I am reconnected now.  I'll have to catch up on two weeks worth of happenings this weekend, but I should be ready to screw up the voting once again.

Well after Puget Sound's preformance the past two weeks I won't have much to complain about...
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 09, 2008, 06:03:10 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 09, 2008, 01:59:12 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 08, 2008, 07:51:32 PM

I am reconnected now.  I'll have to catch up on two weeks worth of happenings this weekend, but I should be ready to screw up the voting once again.

Well after Puget Sound's preformance the past two weeks I won't have much to complain about...

It honestly was nothing against UPS, I just had the NWC ranked too high at the beginning of the year.  This one seems to be a down year for the conference as a whole, even if it's quite competitive.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: LogShow on February 10, 2008, 02:22:08 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 09, 2008, 06:03:10 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 09, 2008, 01:59:12 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 08, 2008, 07:51:32 PM

I am reconnected now.  I'll have to catch up on two weeks worth of happenings this weekend, but I should be ready to screw up the voting once again.

Well after Puget Sound's preformance the past two weeks I won't have much to complain about...

True there isn't any separation in the conference...7 of the 9 teams are still in the race for the 3 playoff spots

It honestly was nothing against UPS, I just had the NWC ranked too high at the beginning of the year.  This one seems to be a down year for the conference as a whole, even if it's quite competitive.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 10, 2008, 02:30:49 PM

I've got my 25 rearranged, just waiting for the rest of the pertinent results from this afternoon to make the final adjustments.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 10, 2008, 04:06:00 PM

Once we get the score from the Centre game, I'll be ready to post my ballot.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 10, 2008, 04:30:52 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 10, 2008, 04:06:00 PM

Once we get the score from the Centre game, I'll be ready to post my ballot.

Hoops Fan
I don't want you to have any regrets this week so I hope you've included the team I've been touting all along. And preferrably in the top half of the poll.  ;) ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 10, 2008, 04:49:09 PM
After several weeks of tearing the old poll into shreds and starting over, this weeks work will be a refreshing change.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 10, 2008, 04:49:28 PM
Quote from: magicman on February 10, 2008, 04:30:52 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 10, 2008, 04:06:00 PM

Once we get the score from the Centre game, I'll be ready to post my ballot.

Hoops Fan
I don't want you to have any regrets this week so I hope you've included the team I've been touting all along. And preferrably in the top half of the poll.

Are you referring to Centre?  They've been in my poll before now.  My problem was that I don't think the SCAC is as good as they were the last couple of years.  However, Centre is really proving they can win consistently and win well, even with the heavy travel load.

I've got them higher than I'd like to have them right now, but I just don't see anyone who deserves to be up there.  We're really heavy on power conferences this year with not too many outliers really proving themselves.  It should make for a good tournament, but I fear we'll have too many deserving teams from big conferences sitting at home (not that I'm against the selection system; it is what it is).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 10, 2008, 05:00:46 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 10, 2008, 04:49:28 PM
Quote from: magicman on February 10, 2008, 04:30:52 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 10, 2008, 04:06:00 PM

Once we get the score from the Centre game, I'll be ready to post my ballot.

Hoops Fan
I don't want you to have any regrets this week so I hope you've included the team I've been touting all along. And preferrably in the top half of the poll.

Are you referring to Centre?  They've been in my poll before now.  My problem was that I don't think the SCAC is as good as they were the last couple of years.  However, Centre is really proving they can win consistently and win well, even with the heavy travel load.

I've got them higher than I'd like to have them right now, but I just don't see anyone who deserves to be up there.  We're really heavy on power conferences this year with not too many outliers really proving themselves.  It should make for a good tournament, but I fear we'll have too many deserving teams from big conferences sitting at home (not that I'm against the selection system; it is what it is).

Hoops Fan

No. I was referring to Plattsburgh State where 2 weeks ago you left them out but said you may come to regret it. They have went 5-0 since that time and are now 19-2 overall and 12-0 in a tough SUNYAC conference that's probably as strong as it's been in the past 4 or 5 years if not longer.  So I was plugging them. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 10, 2008, 06:07:33 PM
Mine is in!   :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 10, 2008, 06:43:53 PM


Gotcha.  Plattsburgh is indeed in, although not yet in the top half.  I am unimpressed with most teams below #8, however, so they have a good shot.

The reason I thought I might regret it is because I was afraid the conference might be a lot better than I expected it to be.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pbrooks3 on February 10, 2008, 08:05:26 PM
Posters' Poll for this week is in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 10, 2008, 08:44:00 PM
Mine is in. Hope we get lots of responses.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pbrooks3 on February 10, 2008, 08:54:48 PM


Hoops Fan

No. I was referring to Plattsburgh State where 2 weeks ago you left them out but said you may come to regret it. They have went 5-0 since that time and are now 19-2 overall and 12-0 in a tough SUNYAC conference that's probably as strong as it's been in the past 4 or 5 years if not longer.  So I was plugging them. 
[/quote]

I am a Centre supporter, but I moved up Plattsburgh St several places on my ballot this week. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 10, 2008, 09:19:48 PM
author=pbrooks3
I am a Centre supporter, but I moved up Plattsburgh St several places on my ballot this week. 



And I did the same for your Centre team.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 10, 2008, 09:39:17 PM
Now, now, gentlemen - let's not get into "I'll boost your team if you boost mine"! ;D ;)

I've tabulated 5 ballots so far (last week we dropped to only 7, so looks promising).  So far 19 teams appear on all 5, and 6 more on 4, and that so far is our top 25.  But only a few of them show much agreement on where in the top 25 they belong.  All spots (except perhaps #1) are still very much up for grabs, so keep those ballots comin'!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 10, 2008, 11:19:47 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 10, 2008, 09:39:17 PM
Now, now, gentlemen - let's not get into "I'll boost your team if you boost mine"! ;D ;)

I've tabulated 5 ballots so far (last week we dropped to only 7, so looks promising).  So far 19 teams appear on all 5, and 6 more on 4, and that so far is our top 25.  But only a few of them show much agreement on where in the top 25 they belong.  All spots (except perhaps #1) are still very much up for grabs, so keep those ballots comin'!


Mr. Ypsi,

I had already posted my ballot before reading pbrooks3's post. As you well know!!!  :D ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 11, 2008, 05:41:34 PM
We've exceeded last week already, with 8 ballots in.  Let's get double-digits!

If you haven't voted yet, be assured that your vote will matter - #1 looks set (no surprise to anyone who looks at last week, and notes that our #2 and #3 teams both lost) and, interestingly, so is #12 (I just won't say who it is!).  Every other spot, from #2 to #24 is hotly contested, and several teams are in the running for #25.  (With 8 voters we are only 7 teams over the minimum, and four of those are 1-ballot 'orphans' - amazing agreement on who; a lot of disagreement on where!)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 11, 2008, 09:22:50 PM
9 ballots.  While there are a number of others I (naively?) hope for, there aren't any others I truly expect.  Any more ballots in the pipeline?

If I don't hear of others brfore then, I'll start typing in about a half hour.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 11, 2008, 10:46:06 PM
Posters' Poll:

1.  Amherst     225 (unanimous)

2.  UWW         201 (2,2,2,3,3,4,5,5,7)
3.  Hope         188 (2,2,4,4,5,6,7,7,9)
4.  Augie        186 (2,3,3,45,6,7,8,10)
5.  Centre       180 (2,3,3,4,5,8,9,10,10)
6.  Rochester  174 (4,5,5,6,6,7,8,9,10)
7.  UM-Dart     167 (2,4,4,5,7,9,9,10,17)
8.  Wash U     165 (3,6,7,7,8,8,8,8,14)

9.  UWSP        150 (3,6,6,11,11,11,11,12,13)
10 Capital       148 (6,7,8,9,9,9,12,13,13)
11 Brandeis    147 (3,5,10,10,10,11,12,12,14)

12 Plattsburgh 127 (2,4,11,12,13,13,15,16,21)

13 UMHB         113 (11,11,12,12,12,13,13,14,23)
14 UWP          108 (6,8,15,15,15,16,16,16,19)
15 Wooster     104 (10,14,14,14,14,14,15,15,20)
16 Guilford        97 (9,13,15,15,16,16,16,18,19)
17 St Thomas   82 (12,13,17,17,18,18,18,18,21)
18 Oxy             69 (14,17,17,17,18,18,19,19,-)
19 Ursinus       57 (11,18,19,19,20,21,22,22,25)
20 UPS            47 (16,17,19,20,21,21,22,25,-)
21 Lawrence    42 (16,20,20,21,22,23,23,23,24)

22 Stevens      30 (17,20,20,21,22)
t23 Va Wes     29 (19,20,22,22,23,24,24,25,-)
t23 UWO         29 (17,19,22,22,23,24)
25 RMC           18 (18,21,24,25,25,25)

26 Chicago     11 (15)
27 Millsaps     10 (20,23,25)
28 Cal Lu         9 (21,24,24)
t29 Elmhurst    3 (23)
t29 Wheaton   3 (23)
t31 Middlebury 2 (25,25)
t31 Willy Pat    2 (24)
t31 DePauw     2 (24)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: LogShow on February 11, 2008, 11:00:25 PM
Well Puget Sound is right about where I thought they would end up.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 11, 2008, 11:01:16 PM


Hey, I only voted for three schools that ended up outside our Top 25.  Maybe I'm losing my touch?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 11, 2008, 11:15:39 PM
Three teams I strongly considered that I was surprised got no love:

DePauw (though they fnally got 2 points on the last ballot) - winner of 8 straight, and now 18-4.

Bowdoin, now also 18-4 and challenging in the NESCAC (though lost to Middlebury, who did get 2 points at 17-5).

Wittenberg, winner of 14 of their last 15 (including over Woo) - I suspect their horrendous 1-5 start may have taken them permanently off many radar screens.

I suspect that 19 teams being named on ALL ballots, and another 3 on 8 of 9, may be a new all-time high on consensus (despite the return of Hoops Fan ;D).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 11, 2008, 11:33:50 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 11, 2008, 11:15:39 PM
Three teams I strongly considered that I was surprised got no love:

DePauw (though they fnally got 2 points on the last ballot) - winner of 8 straight, and now 18-4.


That was me, and it seems like for the second year in a row I'm the lone believer in the Tigers.  Maybe its just man love? :D  I should seek therapy.

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 11, 2008, 11:15:39 PM
Bowdoin, now also 18-4 and challenging in the NESCAC (though lost to Middlebury, who did get 2 points at 17-5).

Penciled them in for next week re-evaluation

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 11, 2008, 11:15:39 PM
Wittenberg, winner of 14 of their last 15 (including over Woo) - I suspect their horrendous 1-5 start may have taken them permanently off many radar screens.

The win over Woo was nice and a surprise, certainly a terrific win.  The problem I have beyond just the 6 losses is that of those 14 wins in 15 games only 2 have come vs a team with a winning record, Wabash  and Wooster.  The other team with a winning record they faced Ohio Wesleyan, they lost to.  Their 2 non-con wins came against 10-12 UW LaCrosse, and current MIAA last place Olivet (they're behind Alma for crying out loud)

Nothing that Witt has accomplished yet screams top 20 team at me right now.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 11, 2008, 11:55:54 PM
sac,

If you continue that 'Tiger crush', beware of Little Giants on your front lawn! :o  Actually, I'm not quite ready to rank them yet, but I'm glad someone did.

Good points on Witt (and despite the way I worded that, they're on my radar but I actually rejected them fairly early; I guess my surprise is that they are WITT, all-time winningest team: someone was bound to rank them!).  And in fairness, I suspect many of those losing-record teams they beat are still better than the great majority of teams on some ranked teams' schedules.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 12, 2008, 01:21:40 AM
I finally took a look at the real poll and found a name I'd totally left off my radar: Maryville (TN) enters at #25.  Since they are a perennial tourney team (pool B, usually the leader), I'm not sure why I completely forgot to check them (probably their suspect schedule).  They've split with Averett and Emory and otherwise beaten everyone they've faced (now 20-2, with a 13-game winning streak).

I don't think I'm ready to vote for them yet, but I'll be watching if others fall.  (Right now I'd have them perhaps 30-35 and there is probably nothing they can do but keep winning and wait for others to lose - their opponents just don't impress me as 'signature' wins.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 12, 2008, 05:29:55 AM
I was glad to see that no one in our poll gave Maryville a single mention. I was surprised to see them at #25 in the real poll. I was considering them last week until I looked at their schedule and their 4 team league. They'd probably be a .500 team in most of the decent conferences.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 12, 2008, 09:48:04 AM
I was very close at adding Maryville. In fact, Massey has them rated very highly. But they've done their business against a lot of mediocre NAIA schools that may or may not be better than a lot of D-3 schools, so I couldn't really give them credit.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: scottiedoug on February 12, 2008, 10:17:35 AM
While I am not one of Maryville's fans who whines all the time about the lack of respect MC gets from national posters, I think some of the explanations I am reading, esp. from magicman, border on the extreme.  Scheduling recognized DIII opponents from where Maryville is located is a challenge, and the game with Centre was cancelled because a MC coach was killed in a car crash, but I am pretty sure the crack that "They'd probably be a .500 team in most of the decent conferences" is ill-informed. 

Most of us know that the only way to deal with this challenge is to beat people y'all think are any good and that pretty much means the whole deal depends on what happens in the NCAA tournament, where the Scots always play and have won more than they have lost for a long time now.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 12, 2008, 12:33:45 PM
Quote from: scottiedoug on February 12, 2008, 10:17:35 AM
Most of us know that the only way to deal with this challenge is to beat people y'all think are any good and that pretty much means the whole deal depends on what happens in the NCAA tournament, where the Scots always play and have won more than they have lost for a long time now.

6-5 over 5 years, advancing no further than the second round the last 3 years,  1-2 vs teams outside the South Region, probably doesn't excite anyone.

ps 4-4 in the last 4 tournaments.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 12, 2008, 12:46:02 PM
But to their credit, they've been to the tourney and have at least advanced to the second round a few times, which is a lot more than a lot of programs can say.

/still hangs my hat on the '82 champs...
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 12, 2008, 12:50:56 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 12, 2008, 12:46:02 PM
But to their credit, they've been to the tourney and have at least advanced to the second round a few times, which is a lot more than a lot of programs can say.

/still hangs my hat on the '82 champs...

This is true, and my team was in the same position for many years, but scottiedoug's last statement made Maryville's tournament prowess seem much more than it actually is, just thought I'd set the record out there for people to see.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: MC wild animal on February 12, 2008, 01:45:33 PM
Who cares about the polls or rankings....MC is playing with a chip on its shoulder and the last time I checked none of your votes, D3hoops.com's poll, or any other mathematical genius decides who makes it to Salem. I agree its time for Maryville to take it to the next level!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: scottiedoug on February 12, 2008, 02:03:44 PM
The only thing that made me subject us all to postings about how being in the tournament (and winning at least one game) for more consecutive years than anybody is meaningless was the crack about being a .500 team in, say, the ODAC.   Carson-Newman, a DII team MC beat, is 16-4, and King, another DII team MC beat has won way more than they have lost.

And since when is the SCAC so well thought of that Centre gets all the way to #5 (or #3).  Maryville has taken care of SCAC teams pretty well lately, in and outside the tournament, including Oglethorpe this year.

And to reiterate, we know that winning some games (plural) in the tournament is the best argument we can offer. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 12, 2008, 02:56:50 PM
King is NAIA 2, though they are #13 according to Massey in NAIA-2.

Maryville also split with Carson - Newman. Carson - Newman is only 52nd in Massey for D2 with MOV included, mainly because of a weak SOS.

Centre is just at the right place at the right time in this year of uncertainty. The SCAC is not a world beater but it's a decent conference.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: LogShow on February 12, 2008, 03:43:29 PM
QuoteCentre is just at the right place at the right time in this year of uncertainty. The SCAC is not a world beater but it's a decent conference

Some times it is better to be lucky then good...not saying thats the only reason.  But in every great season there is always luck involved in some sort of fashion.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: scottiedoug on February 12, 2008, 03:52:30 PM
Smedindy:  It is not a big deal, but Maryville has only played C-N once this year and won.   I am sure Centre is good...they often are, and I say good luck to them.  I would not be surprised if Maryville and Centre play each other in the tournament.  MC has beaten a SCAC team several times in the tournament recently.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 12, 2008, 04:30:27 PM
My bad, I was looking cockeyed.

But I only noticed Maryville beating one SCAC foe, Trinity in the past few seasons in the NCAA.

1999 - Lost to Miss. College
2000 - Beat SCAD, beat Hampden-Sydney, lost to McMurry
2001 - Beat MacMurray, lost to Witt
2002 - Beat Webster, lost to Wash U.
2003 - Beat Miss. College, lost to Hanover
2004 - Lost to Ill. Wesleyan
2005 - Beat Methodist, lost to Miss. College
2006 - Beat Trinity (TX), lost to Miss. College
2007 - Beat Mary Hardin-Baylor, lost to Miss. College (AGAIN??)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: scotswin on February 12, 2008, 07:22:30 PM
Smedingly,

As has been stated on here before, Maryville is riding a NCAA record 9 straight years with at least one NCAA tournament victory (they had tournament wins in 1999 and 2004 prior to the losses you listed above).  Not that it is at all relavent, but the 1999 win was against SCAC champion Rose-Hulman, who has since changed conferences.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 12, 2008, 08:12:26 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 12, 2008, 04:30:27 PM
My bad, I was looking cockeyed.

But I only noticed Maryville beating one SCAC foe, Trinity in the past few seasons in the NCAA.

1999 - Lost to Miss. College
2000 - Beat SCAD, beat Hampden-Sydney, lost to McMurry
2001 - Beat MacMurray, lost to Witt
2002 - Beat Webster, lost to Wash U.
2003 - Beat Miss. College, lost to Hanover
2004 - Lost to Ill. Wesleyan
2005 - Beat Methodist, lost to Miss. College
2006 - Beat Trinity (TX), lost to Miss. College
2007 - Beat Mary Hardin-Baylor, lost to Miss. College (AGAIN??)


The Maryville that IWU beat was from Missouri (SLIAC).  Maryville (TN) got a bye, beat Randy Mac, then lost to [I've just blanked out the name!].
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 12, 2008, 08:18:42 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 12, 2008, 08:12:26 PM

The Maryville that IWU beat was from Missouri (SLIAC).  Maryville (TN) got a bye, beat Randy Mac, then lost to [I've just blanked out the name!].

Good thing D3hoops.com has that stuff online  ;).....it was John Carroll

http://www.d3hoops.com/school/MVLT/mens/2004

Quote from: scotswin on February 12, 2008, 07:22:30 PM
Smedingly,

As has been stated on here before, Maryville is riding a NCAA record 9 straight years with at least one NCAA tournament victory (they had tournament wins in 1999 and 2004 prior to the losses you listed above).  Not that it is at all relavent, but the 1999 win was against SCAC champion Rose-Hulman, who has since changed conferences.

Not really anything more than interesting but 1999 was Rose-Hulman's first year in the SCAC.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 12, 2008, 09:40:58 PM

Maryville has been just off my top 25 from the beginning.  Their history makes them legit every year; they've proven themselves in the tournament so the odd schedule doesn't hurt them in my book.

However, this year, they just haven't had much of a schedule to put them over the top or into the poll.  They needed the Centre game, even if it was a loss, to correlate them with the rest of DIII.  Obviously some tragic scenario prevented that, but they are right there and will undoubtedly be a really crappy first round match-up for some unlucky conference final loser.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 12, 2008, 10:08:47 PM
Quote from: scotswin on February 12, 2008, 07:22:30 PM
Smedingly,

As has been stated on here before, Maryville is riding a NCAA record 9 straight years with at least one NCAA tournament victory (they had tournament wins in 1999 and 2004 prior to the losses you listed above).  Not that it is at all relavent, but the 1999 win was against SCAC champion Rose-Hulman, who has since changed conferences.
As an ASC fan, I am amused by the Maryville fans.  They are loyal and support their team well, but they are also only 2-5 versus the ASC.  However, it makes for a good rivalry when it happens, which is more frequently than the ASC faces the SCAC in the post-season.  (The ASC is 3-1 all-time in tournament play vs. the SCAC.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: scottiedoug on February 13, 2008, 12:04:42 AM
Ralph:  I am glad we provide you with amusement in a world where that is often scarce.  We, on the other hand, are not amused by playing and losing to Mississippi College at their dome every year.  Maybe we'll get a shot at them or someone else (MHB again?) this year in Tennessee. 

Smedindy:  My bad about the SCAC.  I got confused because Maryville regularly beats them in regular season matchups.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 13, 2008, 12:13:33 AM
Well that is true, I count a 5 game winning streak and 7 of 9.

About 6 of those against Oglethorpe and 2 vs Sewanee.  Not exactly the cream of the SCAC crop, but it is still 5 in a row and 7 of 9.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 13, 2008, 12:23:51 AM
Quote from: scottiedoug on February 13, 2008, 12:04:42 AM
Ralph:  I am glad we provide you with amusement in a world where that is often scarce.  We, on the other hand, are not amused by playing and losing to Mississippi College at their dome every year.  Maybe we'll get a shot at them or someone else (MHB again?) this year in Tennessee. 

Smedindy:  My bad about the SCAC.  I got confused because Maryville regularly beats them in regular season matchups.
I am not amused by losing to MissCollege in the Golden Dome either.  The last time that McMurry beat MissColl in the Golden Dome was in the conference tourney in 2001.  :-\

The Choctaws are hard to beat anytime, but especially in Clinton!  MissColl is down a bit this year.

I think that UMHB wins this year.  They have clinched the host role for the ASC tourney, and I think that they will win the ASC bid.  That being the case, the only team that might get bussed into Belton would be Millsaps as an "A" or a "C" or Trinity TX as the SCAC Pool A bid.

I think that Murvil goes to Centre.  Good luck!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: scottiedoug on February 13, 2008, 10:18:31 AM
sac:  Maryville beat Centre once in 2005 and 2006.... Maybe we can do that again this year....
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 14, 2008, 10:03:32 AM
Sorry about the mixup in Maryville's that one time. I was getting stuff done to rush to a plane...
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pbrooks3 on February 14, 2008, 09:11:00 PM
Quote from: scottiedoug on February 13, 2008, 10:18:31 AM
sac:  Maryville beat Centre once in 2005 and 2006.... Maybe we can do that again this year....

I think the Colonels would welcome the challenge if it should happen regardless of venue. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 17, 2008, 02:21:17 AM
Rankings will undergo another reshuffle this week as 7 top 25 teams have already lost. Numbers 2,5,6,8,16,18,and 21, have gone down. Five more games on tap for Sunday, so that list may get expanded.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 17, 2008, 04:38:57 PM

Just waiting for the Guilford game to finish and I'll submit.

There was a lot of movement on my list, but nothing too drastic.  My bottom two teams came off completely and one mid-level squad dropped to #25.

Plattsburgh, Centre, Wooster, and Stevens Point made the most pronounced advancements.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: LogShow on February 17, 2008, 04:46:14 PM
Quote from: magicman on February 17, 2008, 02:21:17 AM
Rankings will undergo another reshuffle this week as 7 top 25 teams have already lost. Numbers 2,5,6,8,16,18,and 21, have gone down. Five more games on tap for Sunday, so that list may get expanded.

the top 25 has be unpredictable at best...
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 17, 2008, 04:47:32 PM

I'm in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: golden_dome on February 17, 2008, 06:44:22 PM
Quote from: scottiedoug on February 13, 2008, 12:04:42 AM
Ralph:  I am glad we provide you with amusement in a world where that is often scarce.  We, on the other hand, are not amused by playing and losing to Mississippi College at their dome every year.  Maybe we'll get a shot at them or someone else (MHB again?) this year in Tennessee. 

Smedindy:  My bad about the SCAC.  I got confused because Maryville regularly beats them in regular season matchups.

Mississippi College actually played at Maryville in two of their last four meetings. The Choctaws lost 70-58 in Tennessee in 2003. The Choctaws won 68-62 at Maryville in 2005 before winning the last two meetings in the "Golden Dome" 69-51 and 76-56. But the home team obviously has an advantage since both programs have great home records. Mississippi College has won 56 of their last 58 at home and I'm sure Maryville has a very impressive home record as well.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the two match up again this year, though the Choctaws will probably have to win the ASC tournament to get in. I doubt the committee would take a 21-6 MC team as an at-large should MC win out and lose in the ASC Championship game, but they did take a five loss UMHB team last year. You never know.

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pbrooks3 on February 17, 2008, 07:07:20 PM
My top 25 is in for this week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 17, 2008, 07:27:31 PM
Mine is in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Marty Peretz on February 17, 2008, 10:57:45 PM
1) Amherst
2)Centre
3) Hope
4) Stevens Point
5)Wash.U.
6) Whitewater
7) Brandeis
8) Capital
9) UMass Dartmouth
10) Plattsburgh
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 18, 2008, 12:49:26 AM
My list is in for this week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 18, 2008, 12:54:01 AM
Six ballots in so far.  I don't think I'd be giving away a big secret to say that Amherst is so far unanimous for #1 (for the third week in a row), but after that all spots are highly contested.  The top 19 vote-getters have been named on all ballots, but then it gets really wild (and even among the top 19, the positioning is sometimes rather extreme.

Get those ballots in - your vote will make a difference!

Marty, I'd love to include your votes, but I only tally ballots with the top 25.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 18, 2008, 09:53:37 AM
Come on Marty give us 15 more. Please and Thank You.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 18, 2008, 10:54:14 AM
Mine's in - and yes Amherst is still unanimous
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 18, 2008, 11:36:09 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 18, 2008, 10:54:14 AM
Mine's in - and yes Amherst is still unanimous

I've had Hope a solid #2 for a couple weeks now.  I'd even consider moving them up if they had any competition whatsoever in the conference (obviously Calvin doesn't count because of the rivalry factor).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Titan Q on February 18, 2008, 12:02:16 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 18, 2008, 11:36:09 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 18, 2008, 10:54:14 AM
Mine's in - and yes Amherst is still unanimous

I've had Hope a solid #2 for a couple weeks now.  I'd even consider moving them up if they had any competition whatsoever in the conference (obviously Calvin doesn't count because of the rivalry factor).

Albion is a good team, Hoops.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 18, 2008, 04:46:48 PM
Albion is a great story, they may not place a single player on the All-MIAA first team this season.

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: NW Hope Fan on February 18, 2008, 04:54:02 PM
And if per chance get the auto bid from the MIAA could make some noise in the NCAA...
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 18, 2008, 05:18:19 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on February 18, 2008, 12:02:16 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 18, 2008, 11:36:09 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 18, 2008, 10:54:14 AM
Mine's in - and yes Amherst is still unanimous

I've had Hope a solid #2 for a couple weeks now.  I'd even consider moving them up if they had any competition whatsoever in the conference (obviously Calvin doesn't count because of the rivalry factor).

Albion is a good team, Hoops.

I know.  They've been steadily moving up my "teams to watch" list.  But one decent team does not a conference make.  I know the same can be said about Amherst, but I've been giving the benefit of the doubt to the defending champs.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 18, 2008, 06:13:12 PM
You think Amherst is the only decent team in the NESCAC? Your definition of 'decent' is a bit different than mine:

I dunno. According to the latest Massey ratings using MOV:

1. Amherst
4. Bowdoin
14. Middlebury
16. Trinity (CT)

Williams is down at 97th....
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 18, 2008, 06:49:14 PM
We've been stuck on 8 ballots since 11 this morning.  C'mon guys - double digits!

Sac, I'm holding my GL ballot hostage until I get your PP ballot. ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 18, 2008, 07:35:11 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 18, 2008, 06:49:14 PM
We've been stuck on 8 ballots since 11 this morning.  C'mon guys - double digits!

Sac, I'm holding my GL ballot hostage until I get your PP ballot. ;D

Food always comes first.  Just be thankfull I ditched plans to see a girls district game tonight.

Its cold out there.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 18, 2008, 07:37:40 PM
.........and lucky for me I did, because I would have gone to the wrong High School. :o
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pbrooks3 on February 18, 2008, 09:35:47 PM
The Top 25 is out; how does the Poster Poll match up?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 18, 2008, 09:56:44 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 18, 2008, 06:13:12 PM
You think Amherst is the only decent team in the NESCAC? Your definition of 'decent' is a bit different than mine:

I dunno. According to the latest Massey ratings using MOV:

1. Amherst
4. Bowdoin
14. Middlebury
16. Trinity (CT)

Williams is down at 97th....

I mean more in comparison to the top team.  I think the NESCAC has some good squads (not as good as last season, but good) I just don't think they are in Amherst's league.

The MIAA has less "good" teams, but certainly none this year on Hope's level enough to give me reason to jump Hope over Amherst in the poll.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 18, 2008, 09:59:16 PM
Quote from: pbrooks3 on February 18, 2008, 09:35:47 PM
The Top 25 is out; how does the Poster Poll match up?

I'm still hoping for a tenth ballot, but I'll start typing it up soon.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 18, 2008, 10:46:21 PM
Posters' Poll, through Feb 17:

1.  Amherst    225 (unanimous)
2.  Centre      204 (2,2,3,3,3,3,4,5,5)
3.  Hope        198 (2,2,2,2,4,5,5,6,8)
4,  UWSP       189 (3,3,4,4,5,5,6,7,8)
5.  WashU     183 (3,3,4,4,4,6,6,9,12)

6.  Brandeis   164 (2,3,6,7,8,8,10,12,14)
7.  Capital      161 (4,6,7,8,8,9,10,10,11)
8.  UWW        153 (5,6,6,6,8,11,12,13,14)
9.  Plattsburgh 147 (2,2,7,9,11,12,13,14,17)
10 Augie        145 (5,7,8,9,9,12,12,13,14)
11 Woo          138 (5,7,10,10,11,11,12,14,16)
12 UMHB        125 (7,8,9,10,10,13,13,16,23)
13 UMD          124 (4,7,9,9,11,14,14,17,25)
14 Guilford     109 (7,11,12,13,13,15,17,18,19)
15 St Thomas  98 (12,13,14,15,15,16,16,17,18)
16 Rochester   94 (9,13,15,15,16,16,17,18,21)
17 Ursinus       87 (10,10,15,16,17,17,18,18,-)

18 Lawrence    63 (15,18,18,18,19,19,20,20,24)
19 Va Wes       57 (17,19,19,19,19,20,20,21,23)
20 UWOsh       40 (15,16,20,20,21,24)
21 Oxy             33 (11,18,23,23,23,25)
22 UWP           29 (14,17,21,24,25)
23 Millsaps      27 (16,21,22,22,24,24)
t24 Cal Lu       26 (19,21,21,22,22,25)
t24 Chicago    26 (11,15)

26 Maryville(TN) 24 (20,21,21,22,23,25)
27 Stevens      15 (19,22,24,24)
28 UPS            11 (20,23,24)
29 RandyMac    6 (20)
t30 Defiance     4 (22)
t30 Elmhurst     4 (22)
t30 Middlebury  4 (22)
t33 Albion          3 (23)
t33 DePauw      3 (23)
t35 Brockport    2 (25,25)
t35 Wheaton    2 (24)
t37 IWU            1
t37 Whitworth   1
         
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: kiltedbryan on February 18, 2008, 11:00:50 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 18, 2008, 10:46:21 PM

t24 Chicago    26 (11,15)


Wow, Chicago only gets mentioned at all on two ballots, and both slot Chicago into the 10-15 range!

Is Chicago the team being lost in the crowd among all the other quality teams in the UAA?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 18, 2008, 11:07:34 PM
There seems to be alot of divergent thougths on some teams

for instance Plattsburgh St gets 2 #2 votes all the way up to #17
Wooster, Augie, Whitewater all get a top 5 vote up to #14 and #16 for Woo

Brandeis #2 to #14

and the king UMass-Dartmouth from #4 to #25

We've either got some homers, conference homers or it really is just a wild year in D3. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 18, 2008, 11:08:35 PM
I don't see how 15-7 merits a #11 or #15 vote.  Chicago wasn't even on my radar.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 18, 2008, 11:09:48 PM
Chicago has had an incredible season, even though they appear to be the fourth best team in the conference.

I'm glad to see I'm not all that strange this week.  I'm the far outlier on MHB.  I just wish you guys could have been on the bandwagon with me last year, when they had a better team (comparatively).

I think I've got Rochester higher than anyone else.  I tend to give streaky teams the benefit of the doubt, so they may drop precipitously.

I'm also glad someone has joined me as fans of Ursinius.  I'm glad to say I've had them highly ranked since the start of the poll this year.  They may not be national contenders, but they have a very strong squad.

The other off one is Guilford.  At the beginning of the season everyone else had them high and I had them low.  Now it seems to be the opposite.  This teams appears to be getting better as the season goes along.  Did the rest of you just have too high of expectations to start with?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 18, 2008, 11:10:13 PM
Quote from: sac on February 18, 2008, 11:08:35 PM
I don't see how 15-7 merits a #11 or #15 vote.  Chicago wasn't even on my radar.

Check out the schedule, especially after the first couple weeks of the season.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 18, 2008, 11:12:21 PM
Quote from: sac on February 18, 2008, 11:07:34 PM
and the king UMass-Dartmouth from #4 to #25

We've either got some homers, conference homers or it really is just a wild year in D3. 

I'm the 25.  Fortuitous scheduling and exceeding expectations earn a team poll position, but they do not make the team better than they are.  They area solid squad from a second tier NE conference.  I'm not sure how often that gets you higher than 15th.  Losing twice in a week, that drops you a few slots.  I think they'll finish about 30th overall in my book, right about where Rhode Island College ends up.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Titan Q on February 18, 2008, 11:14:20 PM
Quote from: sac on February 18, 2008, 11:08:35 PM
I don't see how 15-7 merits a #11 or #15 vote.  Chicago wasn't even on my radar.

Massey has Chicago #5 (the highest UAA team)...

http://www.mratings.com/rate.php?lg=cb&sub=III&mid=1

Per Massey, Chicago has played the toughest schedule in the nation.

http://www.d3hoops.com/school/CHI/mens/2008
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 18, 2008, 11:14:58 PM
We've also got some 'anti-homers' - Hope had 4 seconds place mentions to 2 for Centre, but the Hope voters held them down (I think we're bein' sandbagged)! ;D

Speaking of homers, I'll fess up to giving a #25 to IWU (even though I knew full well that would be their only vote).  With 8 losses, I knew they would probably not even be considered by most, but they are so reliant on freshmen - I honestly think they are probably top 20 NOW, but with all those losses I couldn't justify more than a token vote.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 18, 2008, 11:16:18 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 18, 2008, 11:10:13 PM
Quote from: sac on February 18, 2008, 11:08:35 PM
I don't see how 15-7 merits a #11 or #15 vote.  Chicago wasn't even on my radar.

Check out the schedule, especially after the first couple weeks of the season.

Quote from: Titan Q on February 18, 2008, 11:14:20 PM
Quote from: sac on February 18, 2008, 11:08:35 PM
I don't see how 15-7 merits a #11 or #15 vote.  Chicago wasn't even on my radar.

Massey has Chicago #5 (the highest UAA team)...

http://www.mratings.com/rate.php?lg=cb&sub=III&mid=1

Per Massey, Chicago has played the toughest schedule in the nation.

http://www.d3hoops.com/school/CHI/mens/2008

Thats all super but 15-7 is still 15-7.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 18, 2008, 11:19:06 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 18, 2008, 11:14:58 PM
We've also got some 'anti-homers' - Hope had 4 seconds place mentions to 2 for Centre, but the Hope voters held them down (I think we're bein' sandbagged)! ;D

This Hope team is not as good as last years.  I feel like they're #3 in the real poll by default, because everyone around them keeps losing.  This is all quite ironic since now we appear to have HoopsFan on board while he refused to acknowledge the wagon, a much better wagon a year ago.  ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Titan Q on February 18, 2008, 11:22:53 PM
Quote from: sac on February 18, 2008, 11:16:18 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 18, 2008, 11:10:13 PM
Quote from: sac on February 18, 2008, 11:08:35 PM
I don't see how 15-7 merits a #11 or #15 vote.  Chicago wasn't even on my radar.

Check out the schedule, especially after the first couple weeks of the season.

Quote from: Titan Q on February 18, 2008, 11:14:20 PM
Quote from: sac on February 18, 2008, 11:08:35 PM
I don't see how 15-7 merits a #11 or #15 vote.  Chicago wasn't even on my radar.

Massey has Chicago #5 (the highest UAA team)...

http://www.mratings.com/rate.php?lg=cb&sub=III&mid=1

Per Massey, Chicago has played the toughest schedule in the nation.

http://www.d3hoops.com/school/CHI/mens/2008

Thats all super but 15-7 is still 15-7.

Fair enough, but what would, say, Centre's record be with Chicago's schedule?  (Massey has Centre as S.O.S. #193.)  Or what would Chicago be with Centre's schedule?   
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 18, 2008, 11:23:57 PM
Nice to see Plattsburgh finally crack the top 10 on our poll. Some one else besides me had them ranked at #2. Still not quite there in the D3Hoops poll as they moved up 1 spot to #11. Equals their highest ranking of the year as the week 1 poll had them in the same spot before they fell all the way to #25 by the week 6 poll after back to back losses.  It's been a slow steady climb since then and their current winning streak now stands at 14.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 18, 2008, 11:29:05 PM
Impossible to know of course.  But teams should be held accountable for their actual results, not what they might be.

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: LogShow on February 18, 2008, 11:29:29 PM
UPS is at #28...It doesn't suprise me because they deserve the ranking they got.  They have been inconsistent and frustrating to watch at times because they have so much potential and at times have played extremely well.  They still have a long road infront of them but I still feel they can make some noise in the national tourney...if they can pull it together and make it there.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 19, 2008, 12:32:01 AM
Quote from: Titan Q on February 18, 2008, 11:14:20 PM
Quote from: sac on February 18, 2008, 11:08:35 PM
I don't see how 15-7 merits a #11 or #15 vote.  Chicago wasn't even on my radar.

Massey has Chicago #5 (the highest UAA team)...

http://www.mratings.com/rate.php?lg=cb&sub=III&mid=1

Per Massey, Chicago has played the toughest schedule in the nation.

http://www.d3hoops.com/school/CHI/mens/2008
Chicago at #11 is mine.  I didn't think that I would be that far out on the limb.  Here is how I got there.

I started with a clean poll after there was so much "red ink" from the previous week.

I had the first Regional Rankings and 20 games worth of Massey.

As I got into the second 10, I started playing the "neutral site/who wins" game.

Chicago is #1 in Massey's SOS and #5 overall.

They were my 3rd ranked team in the Midwest Region.  (Regional rankings have them 5th.)  They have an early 2-point road loss to Wheaton IL, which the committee must acknowledge.  I think Wheaton has slipped a bit.  I also think that Chicago is slightly better than Lawrence on a neutral floor.

As we saw some weakness in the northeast with UMD and especially Williams, some general strength in the UAA, (especially with Wash StL versus CWRU which I watched), and the general WIAC-iness that we all expect, I ran the list of teams.  (We have figured out how to beat Rochester.)

Would Chicago beat #2 East Region Plattsburgh on a neutral floor?  #2 South Region UMHB? #2 Great Lakes Wooster?  Tri-leader in the WIAC UW- Oshkosh?

I just thought that Chicago would beat each of them.

The Top 25 seems like the Daytona 500.  Everybody has their favorite, but the top 15 cars finished within the time difference of a single bad pit stop.  I think that we are getting that much parity in D-III.

Thanks for the chance to explain it.  If Chicago wins their last three games at home (NYU, Deis and WashU) then I won't look quite as bad. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 19, 2008, 01:43:44 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 18, 2008, 11:14:58 PM
Speaking of homers, I'll fess up to giving a #25 to IWU (even though I knew full well that would be their only vote).  With 8 losses, I knew they would probably not even be considered by most, but they are so reliant on freshmen - I honestly think they are probably top 20 NOW, but with all those losses I couldn't justify more than a token vote.

I of course fill out my ballot before the d3hoops poll is issued, but I also make it a point to not look at it until after I've posted the PP.  I now see that IWU got eight points there.  Apparently I'm not nearly the homer I thought I was! :D

Let's see - if the Titans got 8 points from 25 voters, they should have gotten 3 points from 9 voters.  Why are you guys hatin' on my alma mater?! :o ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 19, 2008, 10:36:40 AM
I'm all about the body of work. I just think it's a wacky year.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 19, 2008, 05:10:02 PM
Ralph---I appreciate you taking the time to provide your well thought out explination for Chicago.  Thanks
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 19, 2008, 06:50:21 PM

The record only matters to the selection committee.  This Chicago squad is having the problem of being the 4th best team in a conference where four teams are top 15 material.  They've had some impressive wins and a crazy schedule.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 19, 2008, 07:10:13 PM
Quote from: sac on February 19, 2008, 05:10:02 PM
Ralph---I appreciate you taking the time to provide your well thought out explanation for Chicago.  Thanks
Thanks, sac.

Your response and Hoops Fan's tells me that it is not that preposterous.  Chicago is my #3 team in the UAA and my #3 team in the well-respected Midwest Region.  I also think that this Chicago team is not the team that lost to Trinity TX in the first weekend.  (As for the "body of work", yes, I appreciate that thought.)

I think that this season is just wild!

I have used the bicycle race analogy before.  How many teams are in the peloton?  Put on a nine-game sprint beginning with the conference tourney and you can have it all!

A "nine-game streak" is not that uncommon.  Getting the timing right is luck, but lots of us have had those three-four week periods where everything worked!

This will be a blast!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: LogShow on February 24, 2008, 04:23:21 PM
Is there going to be a poster's poll this week?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 24, 2008, 04:25:09 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 24, 2008, 04:23:21 PM
Is there going to be a poster's poll this week?

Why wouldn't there be? Now it's getting down to crunch time.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 24, 2008, 04:46:10 PM
Quote from: magicman on February 24, 2008, 04:25:09 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 24, 2008, 04:23:21 PM
Is there going to be a poster's poll this week?

Why wouldn't there be? Now it's getting down to crunch time.

This week, next week after conference tourneys, then a final one after the NCAA tourney.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: LogShow on February 24, 2008, 05:12:52 PM
Quote from: magicman on February 24, 2008, 04:25:09 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 24, 2008, 04:23:21 PM
Is there going to be a poster's poll this week?

Why wouldn't there be? Now it's getting down to crunch time.

Just wanted to make sure! :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 24, 2008, 05:13:19 PM
Mine is in, assuming that Centre takes care of business.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 24, 2008, 05:21:40 PM
Just when I was cosidering DePauw for the PP they go and lose to Oglethorpe. Bound to be fresh blood in this week's poll. Who climbs back in or who makes their 1st appearence?

Ralph wasn't too far off in his assesment of Chicago as they are just 1 win away from winning the AQ in the UAA. Maroons bound to move up in this week's PP poll. Looks like they may make the D3Hoops top 25 as well. Every team in front of them from last week's poll lost, including #25, #22, & #20(twice).    
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 24, 2008, 05:27:00 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 24, 2008, 05:13:19 PM
Mine is in, assuming that Centre takes care of business.

Same here.  Although, I may even give Centre the benefit of the doubt, so long as they keep it close.

This week I've got 4 UAA squads in the top 13 and three WIAC teams in the top 8.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pbrooks3 on February 24, 2008, 08:35:41 PM
I'll get my poll in later tonight or early in the morning since I am driving home from the Centre game at Sewanee. Centre blasted Sewanee 82-50 for those of you who weren't sure where to place them.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 25, 2008, 01:39:18 AM
Mine is in as well. I also have those same 7 teams as you do Hoops Fan but I couldn't place all of them in the top 13 spots. Only 3 are that high. Too many good teams that keep getting it done week after week that I have to respect. I know the UAA and WIAC are strong conferences but other teams with better records are also playing in fairly strong leagues. Anyway we'll find out in the next few weeks.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pbrooks3 on February 25, 2008, 01:01:08 PM
My Poll is in for this week.  I'm not quite as aggressive with the UAA and WIAC as some of you, but I'm not far behind.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 25, 2008, 06:17:49 PM
Been stuck on seven ballots for several hours.  Later ballots will make a difference even near the top, as two teams are currently tied for 7th and several other spots (including 2nd and 9th) are separated by only one or two points.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2008, 09:21:23 PM
Quote from: pbrooks3 on February 25, 2008, 01:01:08 PM
My Poll is in for this week.  I'm not quite as aggressive with the UAA and WIAC as some of you, but I'm not far behind.

It's easy to be aggressive with the WIAC.  They never get more than two teams into the tournament, so there's no way to prove the #3 team isn't as good as I say they are.  It's a cheap risk.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 25, 2008, 10:24:27 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 25, 2008, 09:21:23 PM
Quote from: pbrooks3 on February 25, 2008, 01:01:08 PM
My Poll is in for this week.  I'm not quite as aggressive with the UAA and WIAC as some of you, but I'm not far behind.

It's easy to be aggressive with the WIAC.  They never get more than two teams into the tournament, so there's no way to prove the #3 team isn't as good as I say they are.  It's a cheap risk.

2006---Whitewater, Stout and LaCrosse all made the tournament.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2008, 10:34:01 PM
Quote from: sac on February 25, 2008, 10:24:27 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 25, 2008, 09:21:23 PM
Quote from: pbrooks3 on February 25, 2008, 01:01:08 PM
My Poll is in for this week.  I'm not quite as aggressive with the UAA and WIAC as some of you, but I'm not far behind.

It's easy to be aggressive with the WIAC.  They never get more than two teams into the tournament, so there's no way to prove the #3 team isn't as good as I say they are.  It's a cheap risk.

2006---Whitewater, Stout and LaCrosse all made the tournament.


I'll take my chances.  Which is much easier to say after two of the top 4 in the WIAC lost tonight.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 25, 2008, 11:20:06 PM
Arrrrggghh!! >:(

This week's PP was 75% entered when my computer crashed!  (Static electricity? Who the hell knows?)  It's coming soon, I hope.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 25, 2008, 11:49:02 PM
Posters' Poll, through games of 2-24:

1.  Amherst    200 (unanimous for fourth consecutive week)
2.  Centre      186 (2,2,3,3,3,3,3,3)
3.  Hope        185 (2,2,2,2,3,3,4,5)
4.  UWW        174 (2,4,4,4,4,4,5,7)

5.  Augie        148 (4,6,6,6,7,8,11,12)
6.  Wash U     145 (5,7,7,8,8,8,9,11)
7.  Brandeis    137 (5,6,7,7,7,9,15,15)
8.  UWSP        135 (6,8,9,9,9,9,10,13)
9.  Wooster    133 (6,6,6,10,11,11,12,13)
10. Plattsburgh 129 (2,9,9,10,10,12,12,15)
t11 Guilford     118 (5,10,10,12,12,13,13,15)
t11 UMHB        118 (4,5,5,9,14,15,15,21)
13. UMD          109 (5,7,8,10,13,13,17,-)
14. Capital      103 (8,11,12,14,14,14,16,16)
15. Rochester   88 (13,13,14,15,16,16,16,17)
16. Ursinus       77 (12,14,14,15,16,17,17,-)
17. Larry          74 (11,16,17,17,17,18,18,20)
18. Va Wes       63 (17,18,18,18,18,18,19,19)
19. UWP           59 (8,14,19,19,22,22,22,23)
20. Chicago      56 (10,11,20,21,21,21,22,-)
21. Millsaps      43 (16,19,19,20,21,22,24,24)
22. St Thomas  37 (18,19,19,20,23,23,23,-)
23. Maryville     29 (20,20,21,21,21,24,-,-)

24. Wheaton    11 (20,22,25)
25. Oxy             9 (20,23)

26. Cal Lu         8 (23,24,24,25)
27. RandyMac   7 (23,24,25,25)
28. Whitworth   6 (23,25,25,25)
t29 Albion         4 (22)
t29 Heidi           4 (22)
t31 Gettysburg  2 (24)
t31 Middlebury   2 (24)
32. Bowdoin      1 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 25, 2008, 11:58:49 PM
Works for me
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 26, 2008, 01:10:36 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 25, 2008, 11:49:02 PM
Posters' Poll, through games of 2-24:

1.  Amherst    200 (unanimous for fourth consecutive week)
2.  Centre      186 (2,2,3,3,3,3,3,3)
3.  Hope        185 (2,2,2,2,3,3,4,5)
4.  UWW        174 (2,4,4,4,4,4,5,7)

5.  Augie        148 (4,6,6,6,7,8,11,12)
6.  Wash U     145 (5,7,7,8,8,8,9,11)
7.  Brandeis    137 (5,6,7,7,7,9,15,15)
8.  UWSP        135 (6,8,9,9,9,9,10,13)
9.  Wooster    133 (6,6,6,10,11,11,12,13)
10. Plattsburgh 129 (2,9,9,10,10,12,12,15)
t11 Guilford     118 (5,10,10,12,12,13,13,15)
t11 UMHB        118 (4,5,5,9,14,15,15,21)
13. UMD          109 (5,7,8,10,13,13,17,-)
14. Capital      103 (8,11,12,14,14,14,16,16)
15. Rochester   88 (13,13,14,15,16,16,16,17)
16. Ursinus       77 (12,14,14,15,16,17,17,-)
17. Larry          74 (11,16,17,17,17,18,18,20)
18. Va Wes       63 (17,18,18,18,18,18,19,19)
19. UWP           59 (8,14,19,19,22,22,22,23)
20. Chicago      56 (10,11,20,21,21,21,22,-)
21. Millsaps      43 (16,19,19,20,21,22,24,24)
22. St Thomas  37 (18,19,19,20,23,23,23,-)
23. Maryville     29 (20,20,21,21,21,24,-,-)

24. Wheaton    11 (20,22,25)
25. Oxy             9 (20,23)

26. Cal Lu         8 (23,24,24,25)
27. RandyMac   7 (23,24,25,25)
28. Whitworth   6 (23,25,25,25)
t29 Albion         4 (22)
t29 Heidi           4 (22)
t31 Gettysburg  2 (24)
t31 Middlebury   2 (24)
32. Bowdoin      1 

There was remarkable agreement (for the most part) this week - the top 19 got mentions 150 of 152 times (98.7%), while the top 23 got mentioned 178 of 184 times (96.7%).

While agreement near the top is not unusual, Rochester might have set a record for agreement so far down: 15th, with every vote between 13 and 17.  Except that record was quickly shattered by Virginia Wesleyan, who finished 18th with every ballot listing them between 17 and 19!

There were exceptions, however.  UMHB ranged all the way from 4 to 21, while UMass-Dartmouth was voted everywhere from 5 to off the ballot entirely.

All together, the mere seven teams who were ARV totalled only 34 points - 1.3% of the total points accumulated.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: LogShow on February 26, 2008, 02:37:05 AM
If a Puget Sound Logger falls in the forest does it make a sound?  I don't think the Men's Basketball Team would.  Amazingly they still have a chance to qualify for the NCAAs.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 26, 2008, 08:27:13 AM
Now that McMurry Men are out of contention, I am rooting for the ASC.  Some of you have great expectations for UMHB.  If you have not seen my postings elsewhere about UMHB, they have sustained two injuries that reduce their options as they encounter tourney foes.

What made UMHB so strong early is that their top 10 players were a versatile assortment of strengths and talents.  They could answer various types of play.  UMHB season stats (http://www2.umhb.edu/sportsinfo/cbasketball/teamcume.htm).

Ryan Burgart is 6'10" and a big traditional post.  He could counter the "big men" that you see in the midwest.  Michael Ivey is another 6'7" post, but the key to all of this was 6'7" Matt Dickey, a wing who could give inside support and had great athleticism when isolated on bigger players.  Dickey has a broken hand.

UMHB's front court is quick and very athletic.  The season stat sheet shows 11 different players have led in either game scoring or rebounding this season.  There were many interchangeable pieces in that front court.  I believe that the loss of Jason Wagner about 6 games ago was as devastating a single loss to UMHB as any one player.  Wagner was very athletic, with great quickness and  leaping ability.

Because of those two losses, UMHB is not as likely to advance in the tourney as one would expect from a #4 team.  If they do, then ASC basketball as a conference is even better than I think, and national parity is closer than we know.

I hope the ASC does well, but UMHB's chances have been hurt badly by those two injuries.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 26, 2008, 10:45:37 AM

I guess I'm still the one holding MHB back.  Such a change from a year ago.


I'm also holding UMASS-D back, but not really, it's more like the rest of your are lost in dreamland somewhere.  I don't think they even get out of their conference tournament; they might not even make the final game.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: MeOak21 on February 27, 2008, 03:11:43 PM
Just for the hell of it, it should probably be pointed out that UMD beat UMBoston by about 1000 points last night... I'm not a UMD fan particularly and I know UMBoston had a horrible year but last night was an official waxing.

131 - 63

Seriously, if you know anything about the LEC just take a look at UMBoston's record and the scores of their games. How does a team that goes 2-24 manage to win 1 game vs. Maine Fort Kent and lose all other games all year except for against a conference leader in RIC? Pretty remarkably I suppose.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 27, 2008, 03:25:48 PM
Quote from: MeOak21 on February 27, 2008, 03:11:43 PM
Just for the hell of it, it should probably be pointed out that UMD beat UMBoston by about 1000 points last night... I'm not a UMD fan particularly and I know UMBoston had a horrible year but last night was an official waxing.

131 - 63

Seriously, if you know anything about the LEC just take a look at UMBoston's record and the scores of their games. How does a team that goes 2-24 manage to win 1 game vs. Maine Fort Kent and lose all other games all year except for against a conference leader in RIC? Pretty remarkably I suppose.

Maybe they had a couple good practices?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 27, 2008, 03:33:19 PM
Quote from: MeOak21 on February 27, 2008, 03:11:43 PM
Seriously, if you know anything about the LEC just take a look at UMBoston's record and the scores of their games. How does a team that goes 2-24 manage to win 1 game vs. Maine Fort Kent and lose all other games all year except for against a conference leader in RIC? Pretty remarkably I suppose.

Anything can happen when you lace 'em up! Jimmy Chitwood may have incarnated himself into a few UMB players against RIC!

Also, they only lost by 7 to an 18-7 Gustavus team. So they may not have been horrific, just unlucky.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 27, 2008, 03:35:39 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 26, 2008, 10:45:37 AM

I'm also holding UMASS-D back, but not really, it's more like the rest of your are lost in dreamland somewhere. 

Be careful or Pat's voters will get seriously peeved - UMD finished 5th in the d3hoops poll!  Compared to that, all but one of us 'held UMD back'! ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: MeOak21 on February 27, 2008, 03:41:06 PM
Another crazy piece of info is that this UMBoston team had 3 starters still on the team from their LEC champion team 2 years ago in A.J. Titus, Amigo Paniagua, and Mark Doran although it appears that Titus went down 9 games into the season.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2008, 12:05:39 AM
I hope everyone is aware that our penultimate poll is this week.

And for the first time in a month, we'll have to ponder #1! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pbrooks3 on March 02, 2008, 08:39:54 AM
Centre has a final round tournament game this afternoon. If they win, would some consider moving them to #1? 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 02, 2008, 09:17:03 AM
Quote from: pbrooks3 on March 02, 2008, 08:39:54 AM
Centre has a final round tournament game this afternoon. If they win, would some consider moving them to #1? 
And put the curse on their backs?!?

A shout out to my friend Frank Ezelle...

I think that the Majors are playing the #1 team in the country this afternoon!

:D :D ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 02, 2008, 02:42:10 PM
Quote from: pbrooks3 on March 02, 2008, 08:39:54 AM
Centre has a final round tournament game this afternoon. If they win, would some consider moving them to #1? 

I've already got them penciled in there, assuming they win today, they will remain there.  I finally got to see Amherst on the court last night thanks to the live video and they just were playing at the level I was expecting.  I wouldn't feel right sending them into the tournament at #1 on my ballot, even though they may still be my favorite to win.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 02, 2008, 02:52:15 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 02, 2008, 09:17:03 AM
Quote from: pbrooks3 on March 02, 2008, 08:39:54 AM
Centre has a final round tournament game this afternoon. If they win, would some consider moving them to #1? 
And put the curse on their backs?!?

A shout out to my friend Frank Ezelle...

I think that the Majors are playing the #1 team in the country this afternoon!

:D :D ;D
Okay Frank, you owe me one!   ;)   :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2008, 03:05:11 PM
And down goes Centre!  Hope was next in line, or maybe gets jumped by UWW or Augie?  Or, perhaps even, Amherst stays there anyway?  And, depending on who votes this week, I'm betting on one or two votes for Plattsburgh!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on March 02, 2008, 03:12:19 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2008, 03:05:11 PM
And down goes Centre!  Hope was next in line, or maybe gets jumped by UWW or Augie?  Or, perhaps even, Amherst stays there anyway?  And, depending on who votes this week, I'm betting on one or two votes for Plattsburgh!

You're right Mr. Y, there will be at least 1 vote for Plattsburgh at #1! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Cards7580 on March 02, 2008, 04:44:58 PM
maybe even more than one  ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 02, 2008, 05:27:07 PM
Mine is in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2008, 05:33:54 PM
Quote from: Cards7580 on March 02, 2008, 04:44:58 PM
maybe even more than one  ;)

Yeah, you and magic were who I had in mind, but you didn't vote last week so I wasn't sure if you were still participating.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 02, 2008, 05:39:36 PM


My ballot is in.  A lot of movement; I think it's a little more mainstream.  Conference tournaments tend to prove a lot with all the tough games in quick succession.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pbrooks3 on March 02, 2008, 06:30:48 PM
My ballot will be in later tonight - just returned from the Millsaps win over Centre.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pbrooks3 on March 02, 2008, 08:10:34 PM
Top 25 in from Memphis.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Cards7580 on March 02, 2008, 08:18:29 PM
"...Yeah, you and magic were who I had in mind, but you didn't vote last week so I wasn't sure if you were still participating.,,,"

What happened to secret ballots  :-\ ?

A 26-2 record deserves it over the rest.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2008, 09:56:48 PM
Quote from: Cards7580 on March 02, 2008, 08:18:29 PM
"...Yeah, you and magic were who I had in mind, but you didn't vote last week so I wasn't sure if you were still participating.,,,"

What happened to secret ballots   :-\ ?

A 26-2 record deserves it over the rest.

Touche!  But magicman already outed himself, and your hint was pretty broad - I don't think I revealed any deep secrets! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Cards7580 on March 02, 2008, 10:15:46 PM
Yeah, like Magic and ME are the only homers  ::) ;D

26-2 is the best.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on March 02, 2008, 10:47:54 PM
I'm voting Hope 25th.  ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on March 03, 2008, 02:45:54 AM
Mine's in from Northern N.Y.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 03, 2008, 05:42:11 PM
Seven ballots in - ALL slots still appear to be up for grabs.

Cards, none of the voters seem to be BLATANT homers (including you; Plattsburgh #1 is not MY pick, but certainly defensible).  Then, of course, there is sac - the ultimate ANTI-homer! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: LogShow on March 03, 2008, 09:51:38 PM
So do the homers and anti-homers cancel each other out?    :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 03, 2008, 09:55:27 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 03, 2008, 09:51:38 PM
So do the homers and anti-homers cancel each other out?    :D

Sure - that's why we eventually achieve such 'credibility'! ;D

But we're only at eight so far - can't someone add to the total?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 03, 2008, 10:47:38 PM
Being in the lull time before tournament games, and with people distracted by the selections/matchups, I've decided to pospone posting the poll until tomorrow evening.  I'm hoping to find lots of ballots in my PM box tomorrow! :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on March 03, 2008, 11:58:11 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 03, 2008, 10:47:38 PM
Being in the lull time before tournament games, and with people distracted by the selections/matchups, I've decided to pospone posting the poll until tomorrow evening.  I'm hoping to find lots of ballots in my PM box tomorrow! :D

Good idea Mr Y. Lets hope we can get a bunch more than 8. I noticed the D3Hoops top 25 still isn't up and it's 11:58 EST. Normally it's been posted by now. Mini-celebration in Plattsburgh today among my friends as we managed to grab one of the byes. We hoped for it but weren't sure we'd get one. I guess there's a first for everything.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 04, 2008, 11:32:09 AM
Quote from: magicman on March 03, 2008, 11:58:11 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 03, 2008, 10:47:38 PM
Being in the lull time before tournament games, and with people distracted by the selections/matchups, I've decided to pospone posting the poll until tomorrow evening.  I'm hoping to find lots of ballots in my PM box tomorrow! :D

Good idea Mr Y. Lets hope we can get a bunch more than 8. I noticed the D3Hoops top 25 still isn't up and it's 11:58 EST. Normally it's been posted by now. Mini-celebration in Plattsburgh today among my friends as we managed to grab one of the byes. We hoped for it but weren't sure we'd get one. I guess there's a first for everything.

Nobody wants to drive to Plattsburgh; now only one team will have to do it.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Knightstalker on March 04, 2008, 11:36:20 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 04, 2008, 11:32:09 AM
Quote from: magicman on March 03, 2008, 11:58:11 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 03, 2008, 10:47:38 PM
Being in the lull time before tournament games, and with people distracted by the selections/matchups, I've decided to pospone posting the poll until tomorrow evening.  I'm hoping to find lots of ballots in my PM box tomorrow! :D

Good idea Mr Y. Lets hope we can get a bunch more than 8. I noticed the D3Hoops top 25 still isn't up and it's 11:58 EST. Normally it's been posted by now. Mini-celebration in Plattsburgh today among my friends as we managed to grab one of the byes. We hoped for it but weren't sure we'd get one. I guess there's a first for everything.

Nobody wants to drive to Plattsburgh; now only one team will have to do it.

Especially when the directions are, drive to Saranac Lake and turn north.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 04, 2008, 07:48:24 PM
Posters' Poll, through 3-2-08:

1.  UWW      194 (1,1,2,2,2,2,2,2)
2.  Hope      186 (1,1,1,1,2,3,4,9)
3.  Amherst  177 (2,3,3,3,4,4,4,8)
4.  Centre    164 (3,4,5,6,6,6,7,7)
5.  Augie      163 (3,3,4,4,5,5,7,14)
6.  Plattsb    161 (1,1,4,6,8,8,9,10)
7.  Guilford   140 (5,7,7,8,8,9,11,13)
8.  Brandeis  133 (3,5,5,6,11,12,13,20)
9.  UWSP      121 (6,7,7,8,9,13,18,19)
10 UMHB      120 (5,7,8,9,10,12,15,22)
11 Ursinus    104 (6,10,11,11,11,14,18,23)
12 Wooster    93 (10,12,12,12,15,16,17,21)
13 Larry         92 (9,11,12,14,16,17,18,19)
14 Millsaps     90 (8,12,13,14,15,16,17,23)
t15 Rochester 85 (12,13,14,14,15,17,17,21)
t15 Wash U    85 (10,10,10,14,16,19,19,25)
t17 Capital     80 (9,15,15,16,16,17,20,20)
t17 UMDart    80 (5,11,11,16,18,18,23,-)
19 St Thomas 73 (13,13,14,16,17,20,21,21)
20 Chicago     72 (6,9,15,18,19,20,23,-)
21 Va Wes     55 (13,17,18,19,20,22,22,22)
22 Murvul       49 (10,15,20,20,21,22,25,-)
23 Heidi          21 (18,22,23,24,24,24,-,-)
24 UWP          14 (19,22,24,25)
t25 Oxy          13 (19,22,24)
t25 Whitworth 13 (21,21,23)

27 Trinity CT   11 (21,23,24,25)
28 Bowdoin      4 (23,25)
29 Gettysburg  3 (24,25)
30 Worcester   2 (24)
t31 IWU          1
t31 RStockton  1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Cards7580 on March 04, 2008, 09:24:11 PM
Plattsburgh is alot easier to get to than Potsdam or St Lawrence coming from the east or NYC area. Even coming from Western NY, you can take rte 87 up instead of 81 to rte 11.   
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on March 04, 2008, 09:25:02 PM
Well I suppose I better just come out and say I had Hope 4, behind 3 teams I've had them behind all year.........not 9.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: LogShow on March 04, 2008, 09:40:41 PM
Whitworth has finished the year pretty strong.  I was wondering your guy's thoughts on them as we enter the tournament.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 04, 2008, 10:24:05 PM


I like Whitworth.  I've liked them all year.  We'll see how they do with all the travel, but I expect them to come out of the first weekend without much problem.

I've been down on Oxy.  I don't understand where all the love is coming from for them.  I think it's Whitworth with ease this weekend.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Cards7580 on March 04, 2008, 11:06:27 PM
".I've been down on Oxy.  I don't understand where all the love is coming from for them.  I think it's Whitworth with ease this weekend..."

Maybe because they are one of only two teams to beat the team (SUNY Plattsburgh) which has   the most wins in Division III this year (so far).  ???

Maybe the voters are making "OXYdental"  mistakes on their ballots  ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 04, 2008, 11:17:45 PM
IF either Cal Lu or Chapman had been selected, the 'West Coast pod' would be at Oxy.  Whitworth is certainly coming on strong (and a win would not surprise me), but their 'full body of work' is not very impressive - I've got Oxy winning in my pick ems (but losing at UWW in the next round, so no biggie either way).

Cards, the heck with beating Plattsburgh - they beat my 'baby' Titans by 20! That's the source of their 'love'! ;D  [Quit being such a homer. :-*]
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Cards7580 on March 04, 2008, 11:26:37 PM
Damn, they only beat PLattsburgh by like 8 or 9.   

Your Titans must really be bad  :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: LogShow on March 05, 2008, 01:06:01 AM
I know you were referring to Whitworth, so sorry to split hairs, but this might be the 5th time total that Whitman has been mentioned in the men's message boards.  Whitman only won 1 conference game this year 1-15,

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on March 05, 2008, 01:57:12 AM
I've had Whitworth on my ballot for 2 maybe 3 weeks now............but then at one time I had Puget Sound in the top 10. :-\


My votes for the UAA teams is pretty screwed up, not even close to how they finished..............and Ursinas finally made my poll.

Thanks to the tie at 25, all 25 of my teams made it into the poll......first time this year.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 05, 2008, 02:50:58 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 04, 2008, 10:24:05 PM


I like Whitworth.  I've liked them all year.  We'll see how they do with all the travel, but I expect them to come out of the first weekend without much problem.

I've been down on Oxy.  I don't understand where all the love is coming from for them.  I think it's Whitworth with ease this weekend.
Whitworth is playing very well and should beat the SCIAC team that comes up but then again that's why we play the games...Be fun to see WW play WW.  I would definitely go with WW.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 05, 2008, 10:53:00 AM
Quote from: LogShow on March 05, 2008, 01:06:01 AM
I know you were referring to Whitworth, so sorry to split hairs, but this might be the 5th time total that Whitman has been mentioned in the men's message boards.  Whitman only won 1 conference game this year 1-15,



Oops!  First time I've done that particular 'brain-fart' - I corrected the post to avoid confusing anyone.  Whitman definitely was NOT 'coming on strong'! :(
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: LogShow on March 06, 2008, 01:09:36 AM
Yeah Whitman usually hits their peak/stride right about the middle of July during summer ball.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: LogShow on March 06, 2008, 01:11:04 AM
Quote from: sac on March 05, 2008, 01:57:12 AM
I've had Whitworth on my ballot for 2 maybe 3 weeks now............but then at one time I had Puget Sound in the top 10. :-\
.

:'(  sigh...UPS played like a top 10 team early in the year....then second half of conference the downward spiral hit
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 06, 2008, 04:55:43 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 06, 2008, 01:09:36 AM
Yeah Whitman usually hits their peak/stride right about the middle of July during summer ball.

Whitman, the name makes me wonder...

Are they a great literary school or more of a yodeling cowboy institution   :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Knightstalker on March 06, 2008, 05:17:04 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 06, 2008, 04:55:43 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 06, 2008, 01:09:36 AM
Yeah Whitman usually hits their peak/stride right about the middle of July during summer ball.

Whitman, the name makes me wonder...

Are they a great literary school or more of a yodeling cowboy institution   :D

Possibly a school for Choclatiers?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: LogShow on March 06, 2008, 06:17:22 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 06, 2008, 04:55:43 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 06, 2008, 01:09:36 AM
Yeah Whitman usually hits their peak/stride right about the middle of July during summer ball.

Whitman, the name makes me wonder...

Are they a great literary school or more of a yodeling cowboy institution   :D

Or a school founded be transendentalists... ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: LogShow on March 06, 2008, 06:18:18 PM
It was actually named after the Whitman missonary family in good ol' Walla Walla, Washington.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on March 07, 2008, 09:34:20 AM
Oh, now, for some reason, I have the great SCTV skit "Indira" in my head. Why? Because it 'co-starred' Slim Whitman...

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 15, 2008, 09:34:29 PM

I've finally found out why this poster's poll is invaluable:

Things are looking mighty good atop this Ursinius bandwagon and I now have proof that I've been a believer from the beginning.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 21, 2008, 06:42:29 PM
Ursinus made the Final Four, but Coast Guard took out their main threats - Trinity(maybe?), UMD and Rochester.  Ursinus never faced a ranked team other than #21 Va Wes until Salem - and promptly got destroyed by Amherst.

I have nothing against Ursinus (and will probably vote them about 10th), but I hope no one goes overboard that they are a top 4 team.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 22, 2008, 03:27:59 PM

My poll is in.  There's a minute left in the final, but things seem to have worked themselves out.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 22, 2008, 09:22:52 PM
It will probably appal Hoops Fan (it certainly did me ;D) that our top five are identical!  Beyond that, we agreed on #9, and some others were close, but there were enough radical disagreements to keep us each from hara kiri. ;)

So, two ballots tabulated - I hope to post the poll by Monday night.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 23, 2008, 12:48:38 AM
Mine is in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on March 24, 2008, 08:56:41 AM
Mine is in. Hope we get a good turnout for the final poll.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on March 24, 2008, 09:55:33 AM
My poll will be the actual NCAA placing, with 5-8 based on where the teams that beat them placed, etc. since that's what counts now.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 24, 2008, 10:15:03 AM
That's rewarding teams for the NCAA's bracketing.  ???
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on March 24, 2008, 11:04:32 AM
Hey, it is what it is. You want a better ranking, win games!  ;)

Actually, I don't really like any post-season polling. The issue has been decided, in my mind.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 24, 2008, 12:20:41 PM
Quote from: smedindy on March 24, 2008, 11:04:32 AM
Hey, it is what it is. You want a better ranking, win games!  ;)

Actually, I don't really like any post-season polling. The issue has been decided, in my mind.

With due respect, your ranking system (and we're doing polling, not ranking) is illogical.  Even #2 vs #3 is an arbitrary product of the schedule if they didn't play each other in a semi - afterall (as this year) they both beat #4 and both lost to #1; the schedule, not court results, determined which was #2.

And to determine 5-8 and 9-16 just by WHO they lost to (without even bothering with who they beat, how close the games were, etc.) is to compound the arbitrary rewards of the schedule-makers and pretend that it is a ranking based on results.  Not to mention the teams unfortunate enough (due to geographical matchups) to face a final four team in the first or second round - even if they took them to OT (e.g., Augie vs. Wash U), a season of accomplishment is ignored due to the bracket-makers schedule.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on March 24, 2008, 12:44:07 PM
Well, you can discard it then. I've always done that, even as a kid, just for my curiosity in the NCAA and the Indiana HS tourney where a team would 'place', as it were. It's just how I rank teams at the end of the season when they have a tourney to decide the champ. To me, right now, #2 through #405 is moot.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 24, 2008, 03:50:01 PM
Quote from: smedindy on March 24, 2008, 12:44:07 PM
Well, you can discard it then. I've always done that, even as a kid, just for my curiosity in the NCAA and the Indiana HS tourney where a team would 'place', as it were. It's just how I rank teams at the end of the season when they have a tourney to decide the champ. To me, right now, #2 through #405 is moot.

He does have a point here.  There have been years where, in my opinion, the team holding the trophy at the end of the year has not been the best team, yet I would be reamed if I chose to put someone other than WashU at the top of my ballot.

I don't think his way is a good was of ranking teams, but we have to consider it as valid a way as anything else.  We give the tournament a lot of credit in picking a champion, there is at least a case to be made extending it to the rest of the field.

This year is a poor example, since the champ actually endured perhaps the toughest possible set of games in the tournament, but in d3 its conceivable an above-average team could get an easy road to Salem and then get lucky twice (either playing out of their minds or the opponents having off nights).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 24, 2008, 04:47:18 PM
That's why I don't feel obligated to put the champ as #1 on my ballot.  (I can't think of a d3 champ I wouldn't have, but I'm not sure Villanova or NCSt. would have made my top 10!  Of course, they still retain the trophy, which they won fair and square, so I'm sure they couldn't care less about my opinion. ;D)

There is a valid case for smed's way of extending the ranking ONLY if we ignore geographical bias in matching up teams (e.g., either Wash U or Augie could not finish higher than 17th, even if, as was the case, one beat the other in OT, while several pods had no ranked teams so someone had to make the final 16), and the possibility of upsets (e.g., UWW, a top two team going in, falls completely out of the top 25 because of one ill-timed slip-up).  Such a mechanical system totally ignores an entire season of results.

IF #2 thru #405 is viewed a moot, then of course it doesn't matter.  But IF we are going to do a poll, it does.  I doubt many think that John Jay is better than Augie or UWW, but that is how it would come out mechanically.

[And, smed, I hope you are not taking this the wrong way.  During the season I think you are among the most thoughtful (and reliable) of voters.  But having final results at the whim of the bracket-makers, and turning the 'rankings' into a one game season, is IMO inappropriate for a 'poll'.]

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Marty Peretz on March 24, 2008, 08:00:46 PM
1)Wash.U.
2)Amherst
3)Hope
4)Brandeis
5)Augustana

It's all up in the air from there...

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on March 24, 2008, 09:47:29 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 24, 2008, 04:47:18 PM
That's why I don't feel obligated to put the champ as #1 on my ballot.  (I can't think of a d3 champ I wouldn't have, but I'm not sure Villanova or NCSt. would have made my top 10!  Of course, they still retain the trophy, which they won fair and square, so I'm sure they couldn't care less about my opinion. ;D)

There is a valid case for smed's way of extending the ranking ONLY if we ignore geographical bias in matching up teams (e.g., either Wash U or Augie could not finish higher than 17th, even if, as was the case, one beat the other in OT, while several pods had no ranked teams so someone had to make the final 16), and the possibility of upsets (e.g., UWW, a top two team going in, falls completely out of the top 25 because of one ill-timed slip-up).  Such a mechanical system totally ignores an entire season of results.

IF #2 thru #405 is viewed a moot, then of course it doesn't matter.  But IF we are going to do a poll, it does.  I doubt many think that John Jay is better than Augie or UWW, but that is how it would come out mechanically.

[And, smed, I hope you are not taking this the wrong way.  During the season I think you are among the most thoughtful (and reliable) of voters.  But having final results at the whim of the bracket-makers, and turning the 'rankings' into a one game season, is IMO inappropriate for a 'poll'.]



I didn't take it wrong at all. It's just how I view things. I guess I should have 'forgotten' to vote as I legitimately did last year.

I know John Jay and St. Mary's aren't among the Top 25, but that's where they'd 'place' and I think they do 'place' that way for the Director's Cup, right?

Kind of like when an obscure golfer places in the Top 30 of the money list just because he was consistently decent, but never won. Or maybe not that. Heck, I dunno. I need to go back to work, and I need a nap.

Mommy?  :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 24, 2008, 09:56:27 PM
Yeah -- what you're doing is standings, not rankings.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 24, 2008, 10:38:14 PM
As of now we still have only 4 ballots.  sac promises one when he gets back to Michigan on Wednesday.  If we ever reach 7 or 8, I'll post a final poll; otherwise we'll go with Ralph's suggestion last year that the real benefit is learning the rationale that voter's use to decide placements.  I'll post my ballot (and reasoning) tomorrow, something I would never do during the regular season (lest I influence other's ballots ;D).

So if you don't want to be 'contaminated' by my ballot, get 'em in soon! ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 25, 2008, 06:34:40 PM
Well, there are still only 4 ballots in - I'll continue to compile if voters send me a ballot (or post here), and post a final PP if the numbers ever justify it.  Meanwhile, my top 10 (with explanations):

1.  Wash U - duh!  As mentioned before, I don't fell obligated to vote the winner as #1, but two double-digit wins in the FF kinda clinches it!

2.  Hope
3.  Amherst - this could certainly be argued either way (the trophies are not an argument, since both beat #4, both lost to #1; which was 'officially' #2 was a matter of scheduling, not basketball).  d3hoops took Amherst overwhelmingly, all 4 ballots here so far have taken Hope.  I had Hope ranked higher going in, and saw no compelling evidence to reverse it.

4.  Augie - both regular-season and tourney champs in the CCIW should count for something, and it took Wash U OT to beat 'em (unlike Amherst or Hope!)

5.  Brandeis - didn't double-scheck, but I think they're the only team to beat BOTH Amherst and Wash U (and Plattsburgh St. for good measure)

6.  UWW - yeah, they were one-and-done, but I had 'em #2 going in and won't punish them TOO much for one ill-timed slip-up!

7.  Plattsburgh St. - MAY be too high, but 27-3 against a 'decent' schedule is worth something, and the team that knocked them out is higher ranked

8.  Millsaps - GREAT tourney run - then came Wash U :(

9.  Ursinus - weak schedule, weak tourney draw, crushed when they hit the FF (yeah, I'm aware they lost their AA); I could see them anywhere from 7 to 12, so this seemed about right

10. Guilford - yeah, again one-and-done.  I've got a 'man-crush' on Ben Strong (I counted on him repeating the 2007 tourney, and had them all-the-way on my pickems!); probably too high, so sue me! ;D

The rest of my top 25 later.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 25, 2008, 08:35:52 PM
11 - 25 (and beyond):

11. Wheaton - what a valedictory by Kent Raymond!  (And not too shabby for Andy Wiele.)  If only they had some depth.

12. Centre - an ignominious exit, but still 26-3.

13. Wooster - another one-and-done, but by 5 lousy points to Wash U!

14. UWSP - TWO points kept them from the richer fate of losing to Wash U instead of BV.

15. UMHB - great season; Millsaps was on fire.

16. Coast Guard - not even on the fringes of my radar going in - great run (did all the 'heavy lifting' for Ursinus)!

17. UM-Dartmouth - MAYBE doesn't deserve the ranking (one-and-done to Coast Guard, but a great season should not be ignored.

18. Buena Vista - knocked out both St. Thomas and UWSP; took Wash U to overtime.  MAYBE deserves even higher, but not ranked going in, and if they can't even pronounce they're own name ... !

19. Rochester - a very tough team to rank.  Based on the whole season (including the tourney), anywhere from 10 to 30 sounds defensible! ;)

20. Chicago - yet another one-and-done, but they did win the title in what was this year almost certainly the number one league.

21. Lawrence - had the misfortune of meeting a Wheaton team that didn't even expect to get in; tough draw!  But I think their overall season merits the spot.

22. IWU - would I have them here if I wasn't a Titan?  Probably not, but only because I wouldn't have probably noticed that they beat #11 Wheaton THREE times! ;)  Not really sure if this is a 'homer' pick, but that stat (plus finishing second both regular season and tournament in the CCIW) deserves something!

23. Virginia Wesleyan - they did win ONE game, and a whole season of excellence shouldn't be trashed because they lost to a FF team!

24. UW-Platteville - I gotta have one team that didn't get invited to the Dance, just to register a protest on the selection process! ;D

25. Whitworth - they beat Oxy (previously in my top 25), then ran into a buzz-saw named Kent Raymond.

Others strongly considered (in no particular order): Loras, Gettysburg, OWU, Oxy, St. Mary's, St. Thomas, Richard Stockton.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 25, 2008, 08:48:34 PM
OK, folks, have at it!  Where did I totally get it wrong (and WHY are you disputing my perfect reasoning ;D)?

Others wish to put up their picks, and discuss?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 25, 2008, 09:03:00 PM

Here's my final ballot.  Last teams off include Rochester and IWU, along with Trinity (CT) and not UMASS-D.  I reluctantly ranked them near the end of their undefeated streak, but I've never been sold on them this year.  RIC was a better team.

1.   WashU
2.   Hope
3.   Amherst
4.   Augustana
5.   Brandeis
6.   Whitewater
7.   Ursinius
8.   Guilford
9.   Centre
10. Stevens Point
11. Chicago
12. Wooster
13. Plattsburgh
14. VA Wesleyan
15. Buena Vista
16. Wheaton (IL)
17. Millsaps
18. Coast Guard
19. Lawrence
20. St. Thomas
21. Loras
22. Heidelberg
23. Capital
24. Gettysburg
25. Mary Hardin Baylor
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 25, 2008, 11:45:11 PM
1)  Wash StL                                 II
2)  Hope                          I
3)  Amherst                                            III
4)  Augie                                       II
5)  Wheaton IL              I

6)   Buena Vista                             II
7)   UW-SP                                    II
8 )   Loras                       I                                   (Sleeper)
9)    Ursinus                                                   IV  (Maybe 1-2 too low.)
10)  UWW                      I

11)  Millsaps                                II
12)  Brandeis                                          III
13)  OWU                       I
14)  Coast Guard                                            IV
15)  Wooster                              II

16)  UMHB                                  II       (Even after the injuries to Wagner & Dickey)
17)  Whitworth                 I
18 )  Plattsburgh St                                  III
19)  Chicago                               II
20)  UMass-Dartmouth                                      IV

21) Rochester                                                 IV  (In Crunch time, the big men could not hit FT's.)
22) VWC                                                         IV
23) Centre                        I
24) Guilford                                  II
25) Tommies                               II

I broke out my ballot by bracket.  I think that there is much parity in the country, but I think that this tournament allowed the "cream to rise to the top".

Amherst, Brandeis and Plattsburgh St were the class of their region, but I think that some regions were more challenging than others.

As for the remainder of the Top 25, I thought that the teams were "that close" to the Championship, and had to go thru "that many teams" to get there.  We have a regional focus in D-III.  That isn't going to change, but I think that the Top 25 ought to reflect the strengths of the various regions.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 26, 2008, 12:22:22 AM
Ralph,

I'll respond more fully another time, but how can you have Wheaton #5 and no love at all for my Titans who beat them THREE times! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 26, 2008, 12:48:24 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 26, 2008, 12:22:22 AM
Ralph,

I'll respond more fully another time, but how can you have Wheaton #5 and no love at all for my Titans who beat them THREE times! ;D
Pyrrhic Victories (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrrhic_victory)*...  ;D  :)

IWU put all of that effort into the games versus the Wheaties (three wins by a cumulative margin of 8 points) and then turned around and lost to Augie three times and North Park once in subsequent games.

Conference play is a bear!


*Wikipedia'd for you readers who wish to expand your knowledge of classical literature and history...  ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 26, 2008, 01:02:24 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 26, 2008, 12:48:24 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 26, 2008, 12:22:22 AM
Ralph,

I'll respond more fully another time, but how can you have Wheaton #5 and no love at all for my Titans who beat them THREE times! ;D
Pyrrhic Victories...  ;D  :)

IWU put all of that effort into the games versus the Wheaties (three wins by a cumulative margin of 8 points) and then turned around and lost to Augie three times and North Park once in subsequent games.

Conference play is a bear!

et tu, Brute? :D

Even when the CCIW is down at the top, it is a brutal slog top to bottom! :'(
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on March 26, 2008, 04:10:35 AM
Here's my final poll.

#1 Washington U.
#2 Hope
#3 Amherst
#4 Millsaps
#5 Brandeis
#6 Ursinus
#7 Coast Guard
#8 Plattsburgh State
#9 Buena Vista
#10 Augustana
#11 Rochester
#12 UW-Stevens Point
#13 Wheaton
#14 Richard Stockton
#15 Mary Hardin-Baylor
#16 Centre
#17 Capital
#18 Gettysburg
#19 Whitworth
#20 Ohio Wesleyan
#21 Loras
#22 UW-Whitewater
#23 Virginia Wesleyan
#24 St. Mary's
#25 Guilford

So, the following list is how the final poll would shake out for the top 25 and beyond. Point totals are listed after the team.


#1. Washington U               125     Unanimous
#2 Hope                               119       
#3 Amherst                          116                
#4 Augustana                       103
#5 Brandeis                          99
#6 Ursinus                            88
#7 Millsaps                           84
#8 UW-Whitewater              79
#9 UW-Stevens Point           77
#10 Buena Vista                  73
#11 Plattsburgh                   69
#12 Wheaton                        64
#13 Wooster                       56
#14 Centre                          52
#15 Coast Guard                 51
#16 Guilford                        49
#17 Univ. of Rochester        40
#18 Mary Hardin-Baylor      36
#19 Ohio Wesleyan            29
#20 Chicago (tie)                28
#20 Loras (tie)                    28
#20 Virginia Wesleyan(tie)   28
#23 Capital (tie)                  21
#23 St Thomas   (tie)          21
#25 Whitworth                   17
#26 Lawrence                     16
#27 UMass-Dartmouth       15
#28 Richard Stockton        12
#29 Gettysburg                  11
#30  UW-Plattville                9
#31 Heidelberg (tie)            3
#31 Illinois Wesleyan (tie)  3
#33 St Mary"s                     2


Sorry Mr Y. I couldn't resist doing the totals since there were only 4 ballots.



EDITED to include my poll
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on March 27, 2008, 12:58:30 AM
Here's my top 5

1. Washington
2. Amherst
3. Hope
4. Brandeis
5. Augustana

Difficult poll to finish with so many early round "upsets" especially in the left half of the bracket.

I probably differed the most with having Buena Vista and Wooster higher than most, and having Centre, Wheaton and Ursinas lower than most but not by a lot.


Good job again this year Mr. Y.  Thanks to those who participate, I always enjoy this little segment of the board.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 27, 2008, 01:37:14 AM
sac, you actually had Wooster (at 18th) lower than most (they were pulled down by a voter who omitted them entirely).  Otherwise I have not yet calculated all your votes! ;)

But it does amuse me (when the usual fear is 'homers') that you Hope voters always lower their ranking!  Has Hope actually moved from Holland to Lake Wobegon?   The children may all be above average, but the 'parents' seem pretty much in need of a self-esteem boost! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on March 27, 2008, 10:51:05 AM
As I said to MrY in a PM I had Wooster higher than most, I added the points incorrectly.  I did not have Wooster 18th.

The poll has been edited to reflect that.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on December 10, 2008, 01:28:05 AM
Mr. Y

Are you doing a posters' poll this year?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 10, 2008, 01:34:45 AM
Quote from: magicman on December 10, 2008, 01:28:05 AM
Mr. Y

Are you doing a posters' poll this year?

Yep.  But as always it won't start 'til January (probably as of games of the 10th).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on December 10, 2008, 01:44:38 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 10, 2008, 01:34:45 AM
Quote from: magicman on December 10, 2008, 01:28:05 AM
Mr. Y

Are you doing a posters' poll this year?

Yep.  But as always it won't start 'til January (probably as of games of the 10th).

Glad to hear that. One more thing to help pass the long North Country winter.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: LogShow on December 10, 2008, 02:42:49 PM
Quote from: magicman on December 10, 2008, 01:44:38 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 10, 2008, 01:34:45 AM
Quote from: magicman on December 10, 2008, 01:28:05 AM
Mr. Y

Are you doing a posters' poll this year?

Yep.  But as always it won't start 'til January (probably as of games of the 10th).

Glad to hear that. One more thing to help pass the long North Country winter.

Me too, I always like getting it from a different perspective.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: LogShow on January 04, 2009, 02:40:04 PM
Is the poster's poll going to happen?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 04, 2009, 03:51:15 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 04, 2009, 02:40:04 PM
Is the poster's poll going to happen?

I'll start tallying ballots a week from tomorrow (for games through the 11th); so it will happen as long as there are voters!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 04, 2009, 05:44:36 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 04, 2009, 03:51:15 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 04, 2009, 02:40:04 PM
Is the poster's poll going to happen?

I'll start tallying ballots a week from tomorrow (for games through the 11th); so it will happen as long as there are voters!
Thanks for doing it again this year!

+1!  :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 09, 2009, 08:30:48 PM
I'll probably do this again this year.  So for now,  giddy up!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 09, 2009, 11:21:44 PM
OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT OF 2009 POSTER'S POLL.

Each week's poll covers games through Sunday.  There are (usually) few enough relevant games on Sunday that ballots can be prepared by Saturday (allowing for Sunday upsets).  Since we are in no way in competition with the d3hoops.com poll, I've decided to relax the submission time for ballots to 6 pm (EST) Tuesday (though I'd appreciate ballots being submitted before viewing the 'gold standard' poll).  Unless you plan to TRY to participate each week, your ballot will mess up continuity; but we do encourage as many as possible (last year we fell to only 8-10 per week - c'mon, make me work!).

If you look back through this thread, you will see that the Posters' Poll has largely succeeded in it's mission of encouraging discussion among knowledgeable national fans - WHY do you feel that team X over (or under) rated?  We don't intend to compete with the 'real' poll, but we also don't intend to simply reflect it (what would be the point?) - so if you follow the national scene, come express your opinions.

Week one will cover games thru January 11; ballots are due (at the latest) by 6 pm (EST) on January 13th.  Please submit ballots by PM to "Mr. Ypsi".

To past voters, thanks for coming back.  To new voters, welcome aboard - it's a lot of work to try to do it right, but it's a blast! :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 12, 2009, 02:10:36 AM
Mine's in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2009, 06:56:16 AM
Quote from: magicman on January 12, 2009, 02:10:36 AM
Mine's in.
Mine' too.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2009, 12:18:43 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2009, 06:56:16 AM
Quote from: magicman on January 12, 2009, 02:10:36 AM
Mine's in.
Mine' too.

Got 'em both.  Here's hoping for a dozen more by tomorrow!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 12, 2009, 12:31:12 PM
I'm in...but I'll do my poll tonight.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 13, 2009, 06:29:21 PM
The original deadline has passed, but only 5 ballots so far.  I'll hold off a while in hopes that some past regulars (or some newcomers!) will heed this plea: MORE BALLOTS!

(Also, I've PM'ed one voter for a clarification.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 13, 2009, 06:59:40 PM
Chuck, I'll send you a ballot, but it'll have to wait until later tonight. I have to get over to NPU and keep score for the women's game right now.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 14, 2009, 08:56:12 PM

Sorry, I missed out.  The next couple weeks could be sketchy for me.  If I get a chance to do them on Mondays, I'll send them in - other wise - my apologies.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 14, 2009, 09:02:44 PM
I surrender - we'll try for better next week. :-[

Only six ballots (and three past voters I PM'ed will be unable to participate, three others did not respond - if you've got any likely candidates in mind - LEAN ON 'EM!)

FIRST POSTERS' POLL OF 2009:

1.  Wheaton        148 (1,1,1,1,2,2)
2.  St. Thomas     145 (1,1,2,2,2,3)
3.  Wash U          137 (2,3,3,3,4,4)
4.  UWSP             134 (3,3,4,4,4,4)
5.  UWP               122 (5,5,5,6,6,7)
6.  Buena Vista     112 (5,5,6,7,9,12)
7.  Capital          110 (6,7,8,8,8,9)
8.  Trinity(TX)       102 (5,7.9,10,11,12)
t9. Amherst          94 (8,9,10,10,10,15)
t9. UWW              94 (6,6,7,7,10,-)*
11. Augie             91 (8,9,11,11,12,14)
12. UPS                79 (10,11,13,13,14,16)
13. Ithaca            73 (9,11,12,17,17,17)
14. St. Norbert     70 (8,13,14,16,17,18)
15. Roanoke        66 (11,13,14,15,18,19)
16. UMD               61 (12,13,15,17,18,20)
17. R. Stockton    52 (14,16,16,18,20,20)
18. CMU              48 (12,15,18,19,21,23)
19. Elms               39 (14,15,16,23,23,-)
20. UT-Dallas       38 (17,19,19,19,20,24)
21. Anderson       37 (15,18,19,20,21,-)
22. F&M               34 (13,16,21,22,24,-)
23. Whitworth      21 (20,22,22,22,24,25)
24. Elmhurst        14 ((21,21,23,25,-,-)

25. Bethel              5 (5)  [I refuse to put a team named on ONE ballot with the top 25!]
_____

t26. Centre         4 (22)
t26. Rochester    4 (23,25)
t26. Salem St.     4 (22)
t26. Willy Pat      4 (23,25)
t30. Chapman    2 (24)
t30. Randy Mac   2 (24)
t32. Carthage     1
t32. DeSales       1
t32. Gettysburg   1

*NOTE - UWW was entirely omitted from one ballot - I suspect it was inadvertent, but never got a clarification from the voter.  IF so, and UWW received the median vote, they would be 6th.

It is embarrassing to have a #25 who was named on ONE ballot (which is NOT meant to dis Bethel) - we have GOT to get more voters! :o
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 14, 2009, 09:33:42 PM
Thanks for doing it again this year!

I hope that a SCIAC voter(s) is contributing!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 14, 2009, 10:20:07 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 14, 2009, 09:33:42 PM
Thanks for doing it again this year!

I hope that a SCIAC voter(s) is contributing!

I've approached several directly (and made a general appeal on the SCIAC board), but no dice.  So if OxyBob complains, ignore him! :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 14, 2009, 10:58:26 PM
My apologies, Chuck. I promise I'll submit one next week.

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 14, 2009, 10:20:07 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 14, 2009, 09:33:42 PM
Thanks for doing it again this year!

I hope that a SCIAC voter(s) is contributing!

I've approached several directly (and made a general appeal on the SCIAC board), but no dice.  So if OxyBob complains, ignore him! :D

Ignore who?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 14, 2009, 11:10:28 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 14, 2009, 10:58:26 PM
My apologies, Chuck. I promise I'll submit one next week.

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 14, 2009, 10:20:07 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 14, 2009, 09:33:42 PM
Thanks for doing it again this year!

I hope that a SCIAC voter(s) is contributing!

I've approached several directly (and made a general appeal on the SCIAC board), but no dice.  So if OxyBob complains, ignore him! :D

Ignore who?

Uh, um .. can't remember. :P

You know, that guy who's corrupting our April! ::)

[BTW, OB is one I directly appealed to - he said that he didn't know enough beyond the SCIAC.  Hmm ... :o ;D]
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 15, 2009, 11:50:38 AM
I'll admit that I missed UW-W. I did this quickly. I'm starting a new consulting biz out of the home and am balancing that with kid corralling at night. So, um, I missed one.

I also was the one who voted for Bethel, but after they lost to Gustavus that won't happen next week. I gave them some love after playing St. Thomas pretty tough.

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: usee on January 15, 2009, 07:37:15 PM
Quote from: smedindy on January 15, 2009, 11:50:38 AM
I'll admit that I missed UW-W. I did this quickly. I'm starting a new consulting biz out of the home and am balancing that with kid corralling at night. So, um, I missed one.

I also was the one who voted for Bethel, but after they lost to Gustavus that won't happen next week. I gave them some love after playing St. Thomas pretty tough.




Normally we would vote you off the island for those 2 infractions but we are desparate.  ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: April on January 16, 2009, 05:07:56 PM
You guys are so silly. :P
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 18, 2009, 04:30:29 PM
Mine's in.  This was a quick week, and Darryl Nester's Top 25 summary helps a great deal! Thanks Darryl, and +1!  :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 18, 2009, 04:53:30 PM
Are we even doing one this week?

......and may I suggest just a top 20, I think you might get more participation if you did that.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 18, 2009, 04:57:11 PM
Quote from: sac on January 18, 2009, 04:53:30 PM
Are we even doing one this week?

......and may I suggest just a top 20, I think you might get more participation if you did that.

Despite the mourning of the Dutchmen, the poll must go on! :D

We debated ranking fewer teams last year, but the strong sentiment was to retain 25.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 19, 2009, 10:50:10 AM
25 or fight! Heck, why not rank 'em all?

Ok...maybe not.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 19, 2009, 12:07:42 PM

I'll be putting my first ballot together today; you should have it before I go to bed tonight.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 19, 2009, 02:39:57 PM

Ok, so I avoided looking at the real Top 25 until I finished going through every conference and looking at 61 schools.

I ranked my top 25 and only had three really wacked out entires in comparison to the d3hoops poll.  The teams from that poll which don't appear on mine were all near misses, which is acceptable to me.

So, I have Carthage at #8, McMurry at #18, and Baruch at #25.

These seem to be extreme outliers and I'm hoping the rest of you can tell me why I'm so far off.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 19, 2009, 02:44:54 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 19, 2009, 02:39:57 PM

Ok, so I avoided looking at the real Top 25 until I finished going through every conference and looking at 61 schools.

I ranked my top 25 and only had three really wacked out entires in comparison to the d3hoops poll.  The teams from that poll which don't appear on mine were all near misses, which is acceptable to me.

So, I have Carthage at #8, McMurry at #18, and Baruch at #25.

These seem to be extreme outliers and I'm hoping the rest of you can tell me why I'm so far off.

The new d3hoops.com poll isn't out for this week yet.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 19, 2009, 11:32:30 PM
Seven ballots in - more coming?  Greg?  Anyone?

Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 19, 2009, 02:39:57 PM

Ok, so I avoided looking at the real Top 25 until I finished going through every conference and looking at 61 schools.

I ranked my top 25 and only had three really wacked out entires in comparison to the d3hoops poll.  The teams from that poll which don't appear on mine were all near misses, which is acceptable to me.

So, I have Carthage at #8, McMurry at #18, and Baruch at #25.

These seem to be extreme outliers and I'm hoping the rest of you can tell me why I'm so far off.

While I usually don't comment while balloting is still occurring (hopefully ;D), the three you mentioned are all one-of-a-kind.  While most of us have at least one team with no other votes, your pick of Carthage at #8 has them currently tied for 23rd!  I yield to no one as a CCIW partisan, and as long as Steve Djurickovic stays healthy they are a threat to ANYONE (#8 or even higher) on any given night, but Carthage is NOT a top 25 team.  But, although sometimes 'eccentric', I value your input too much to reject the ballot on that pick alone.  Welcome back! :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 19, 2009, 11:47:11 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 19, 2009, 02:39:57 PM

Ok, so I avoided looking at the real Top 25 until I finished going through every conference and looking at 61 schools.

I ranked my top 25 and only had three really wacked out entires in comparison to the d3hoops poll.  The teams from that poll which don't appear on mine were all near misses, which is acceptable to me.

So, I have Carthage at #8, McMurry at #18, and Baruch at #25.

These seem to be extreme outliers and I'm hoping the rest of you can tell me why I'm so far off.
Thanks for the figurative "shoutout"!

#18 might not be too bad if we can survive the conference.  The ASC has become more balanced and has attracted better athletes as programs have seen the benefit of D3 ball.

Last season, the ASC had five good teams in the West by the end of the season.  The East had 2-3.  UMHB lost at host Millsaps on a Hail Mary buzzer beater in the second round.  Millsaps lost to National Champion Wash U in the Elite 8.  If the best team in the ASC can be slotted at 18, then that may be a good pick.

I am amazed at how balanced the nation is this year.  Pabegg's power rankings (on the Pool C board) have some interesting factoids.  North Central IL comes out at the #5 Pool C team this week and #20 overall.  (They have a 69-66 win over McMurry in Vegas from November.)  McMurry pulls as the #10 Pool C team and #28 in his power ranking.  (After the loss by UTD at home to UOzarks 66-68, we may move up a bit!)

The fact that startles me most is that the last regionally ranked team in the East (#5) is the #36 team in the power rankings!

Baruch is not on the power rankings.  Carthage is 8th in the MW and #62 overall.

Thanks for the consideration.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 20, 2009, 06:47:38 PM
Quote from: sac on January 19, 2009, 02:44:54 PM

The new d3hoops.com poll isn't out for this week yet.

Yes, I know, but when I put together my first Top 25 in January, I try not to be biased by the poll already in existence.  I'll usually follow who's been #1, but I don't pay much attention to the real poll until I've done my first one.

I work my way through every conference, looking at the schedules and opponents of the top teams.  This year, I selected 61 schools for further consideration.  I separated them into three groups based on my impressions (definitely in, maybe in, only in if I run out of teams in the other groups).  Then I work my way from the top group into the second and (if needed) the third.

These schools will form my "watch list" for the rest of the season.  I've been doing this for four years now and there's only been one school on a final Top 25 (mine or the d3hoops poll) that wasn't on my initial list.  It's a system that works for me.

Granted, I'm not in CCIW country, but it just appears that Carthage has a legitimate record so far, including a recent win over Augustana.  I'm sure the rest of the season will bear witness to their rightful location, but I'm sticking with it for now and I apologize for messing with the numbers this week.

Also, I see Baruch lost already this week, so we have probably seen the last of them on my ballot.  Those are the sorts of games they need to win to prove themselves.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 20, 2009, 08:21:31 PM

I'll just point out that the new Massey numbers have Carthage, McMurry, and Carroll (the team I should have picked #25 instead of Baruch) in the top 25 and UMASS-D (a team I don't think is very good) at #34.

So, my picks seem to jive with a mathematical system that makes little sense until the full season is played out.


I'll take it!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 21, 2009, 12:27:41 AM
POSTERS' POLL (week ending 1-18):

1.  Wheaton      195 (1,1,1,1,1,2,2,4)
2.  St. Thomas    190 (1,1,2,2,2,2,3,5)
3.  Wash U         185 (1,2,3,3,3,3,4,4)
4.  UWSP            177 (2,3,3,4,4,4,4,7)
5.  UWP              161 (3,5,5,5,6,6,7,9)
6.  Buena V        153 (5,5,5,6,7,7,9,11)
7.  UWW            147 (6,6,6,7,7,9,10,10)
8.  Capital          137 (6,7,8,8,8,8,9,17)
9.  Trinity TX      134 (5,7,9,9,10,10,11,13)
10. Amherst       131 (4,8,9,10,10,10,12,14)
11. UPS              125 (6,8,10,11,12,12,12,12)
12. St. Norbert   101 (8,11,13,13,13,15,17,17)
13. Augie           100 (11,11,12,12,13,14,14,21)
14. Ithaca           93 (9,11,13,13,14,16,16,23)
15. R. Stockton   87 (11,13,14,15,16,17,17,18)
16. UMD             72 (12,14,14,16,16,19,19,-)
17. TX-Dallas     64 (15,15,16,18,19,19,20,22)
18. CMU             61 (14,16,17,17,18,19,20,-)
19. Elms             47 (15,15,15,17,23,24,-,-)
20. Elmhurst       42 (16,18,18,20,20,24,24,-)
21. Roanoke       37 (19,20,20,21,21,22,22,-)
22. Middlebury    22 (15,22,23,24,25,25,-,-)
t23 Anderson      20 (19,19,20,-----)
t23 W. Paterson  20 (18,21,22,23, ----)

25. Carthage       18 (8 )

26. Randy Mac     15 (21,21,23,25,25)
t27 F&M               13 (20,23,24,24)
t27 Gettysburg    13 (21,23,23,25,25)
t29 McMurry          8 (18)
t29 Salem St.        8 (18)
t29 Whitworth      8 (22,22)
32. Centre            5 (21)
33. Carroll            4 (22)
t34 Chapman       2 (24)
t34 SJF                2 (24)
t36 Baruch           1
t36 DeSales         1 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 21, 2009, 12:52:22 AM
Thanks Mr Ypsi.

The vote breakdown may be the most valuable thing about this poll.  I believe that it shows the breadth of support for a team at a certain level.

Hoops fan,

Massey came out with his polls tonight.  FYI, McMurry came in at #34 (in the MOV).  They still have 6 road games left in conference play, and then the top four in the ASC-West go to the East champ for the 8-team tourney.

Thanks to the other 7 pollsters.

If you even have ever given just a thought to doing this, please re-consider. With your study of the best teams, you can derive your own ballot, and then ably justify your ballot.  As you look at the votes that each team gets in the balloting, you know that you have your own opinion as to whether the voters are about right or way off!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 21, 2009, 12:57:48 AM
Thanks to Wartburg!  We can now re-consider BV.

The Judges have issued their verdict on Amherst.

There seems to be one outlying voter on Augie, Capital, Ithaca, UMass-Dartmouth, and CMU.

We can watch their votes over the next few weeks.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 21, 2009, 02:03:45 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 21, 2009, 12:57:48 AM
Thanks to Wartburg!  We can now re-consider BV.

The Judges have issued their verdict on Amherst.

There seems to be one outlying voter on Augie, Capital, Ithaca, UMass-Dartmouth, and CMU.

We can watch their votes over the next few weeks.

And Rhode Island College just dropped Anchor on UMass-Dartmouth. I think Hoops Fan owned up to that outlier vote on UMD and I have to agree with him. I had them at #19 and considered putting them lower. Still remember how high they were ranked last year(#2 in week 10) and they couldn't win their conference tournament. Then got a Pool C bid and 1st round bye only to go 1 and done.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: usee on January 21, 2009, 10:02:20 AM
I would be interested in which voter thinks there are 3 teams better than Wheaton right now. Obviously some Raymond speculation going on.

I am also higher on Capital and Trinity than almost all the pollsters. I was surprised by the strong consensus of Tx-Dallas but I don't have the history.

Interesting stuff. thanks Ypsi!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 21, 2009, 10:20:34 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 21, 2009, 12:27:41 AM
POSTERS' POLL (week ending 1-18):

1.  Wheaton      195 (1,1,1,1,1,2,2,4)  Lost at home to Carthage 55-54
2.  St. Thomas    190 (1,1,2,2,2,2,3,5)
3.  Wash U         185 (1,2,3,3,3,3,4,4)
4.  UWSP            177 (2,3,3,4,4,4,4,7)
5.  UWP              161 (3,5,5,5,6,6,7,9) 
6.  Buena V        153 (5,5,5,6,7,7,9,11) Lost at Wartburg 66-80
7.  UWW            147 (6,6,6,7,7,9,10,10)  Lost at UWP 78-86
8.  Capital          137 (6,7,8,8,8,8,9,17)
9.  Trinity TX      134 (5,7,9,9,10,10,11,13)
10. Amherst       131 (4,8,9,10,10,10,12,14)  Lost at home to Brandeis 58-73
11. UPS              125 (6,8,10,11,12,12,12,12)
12. St. Norbert   101 (8,11,13,13,13,15,17,17)
13. Augie           100 (11,11,12,12,13,14,14,21)
14. Ithaca           93 (9,11,13,13,14,16,16,23)
15. R. Stockton   87 (11,13,14,15,16,17,17,18)
16. UMD             72 (12,14,14,16,16,19,19,-) Lost at home to RIC 66-69
17. TX-Dallas     64 (15,15,16,18,19,19,20,22) Lost at home to UOzarks 66-68
18. CMU             61 (14,16,17,17,18,19,20,-)
19. Elms             47 (15,15,15,17,23,24,-,-)
20. Elmhurst       42 (16,18,18,20,20,24,24,-)
21. Roanoke       37 (19,20,20,21,21,22,22,-)
22. Middlebury    22 (15,22,23,24,25,25,-,-)
t23 Anderson      20 (19,19,20,-----)
t23 W. Paterson  20 (18,21,22,23, ----)

25. Carthage       18 (8 )

26. Randy Mac     15 (21,21,23,25,25) Lost at VWC 76-82
t27 F&M               13 (20,23,24,24)
t27 Gettysburg    13 (21,23,23,25,25)
t29 McMurry          8 (18)
t29 Salem St.        8 (18)
t29 Whitworth      8 (22,22)
32. Centre            5 (21)
33. Carroll            4 (22)
t34 Chapman       2 (24)
t34 SJF                2 (24)
t36 Baruch           1
t36 DeSales         1 
I have only included losses.  Any others that I missed?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 21, 2009, 10:17:31 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 19, 2009, 02:39:57 PM

Ok, so I avoided looking at the real Top 25 until I finished going through every conference and looking at 61 schools.

I ranked my top 25 and only had three really wacked out entires in comparison to the d3hoops poll.  The teams from that poll which don't appear on mine were all near misses, which is acceptable to me.

So, I have Carthage at #8, McMurry at #18, and Baruch at #25.

These seem to be extreme outliers and I'm hoping the rest of you can tell me why I'm so far off.
Hoopsfan #8 Carthage 55, D3hoops.com #1 Wheaton 54!   ;D

Hoops fan is goooooooood!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: fcnews on January 22, 2009, 11:17:05 AM
Carthage makes Mr. Ypsi look like a guy with a crystal ball.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 22, 2009, 11:42:02 AM
Quote from: fcnews on January 22, 2009, 11:17:05 AM
Carthage makes Mr. Ypsi look like a guy with a crystal ball.

We don't know that for sure. He hasn't revealed which posters picked Wheaton as their #1 and which ones picked Wheaton lower. For all we know, he may have been one of the posters who put Wheaton in the top slot on their ballots. I won't ask him, of course, since I believe in the sanctity of the secret ballot. ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 22, 2009, 11:56:33 AM
Hey, I'll admit for being a (new) homer!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 22, 2009, 03:30:00 PM
I still had Wheaton at #1.  I strongly considered dropping them after Raymond went down, but it just didn't seem right until they lost (especially when they hammered Millikin in Decatur in their first post-Raymond game).

The first poll, I was the lone vote for Carthage, but dropped them after struggling IWU beat them in Kenosha.  I suspect I will restore them to my ballot this week (though NOT at #8!)  But kudos to Hoops Fan, who has already acknowledged being the Carthage vote.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: usee on January 22, 2009, 04:50:10 PM
For the record Mr Ypsi did change his pick on the CCIW pickems after Raymond went down (he picked Millikin to beat them @millkin) but he also called Carthage's win over wheaton, albeit he only told us he had a "hunch" after the game last night.  8) :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 22, 2009, 05:08:34 PM
Yeah, I 'wimped out' on actually picking Carthage after what Wheaton did to Millikin, but the result didn't really surprise me.  What DID surprise me was that Carthage won with Steve D getting only 17 points!  I figured Carthage might win because, without Raymond on him, Djurickovic might go off for 40+.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: LogShow on January 22, 2009, 09:16:40 PM
How long is Raymond supposed to be sidelined?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 22, 2009, 09:29:51 PM
Quote from: LogShow on January 22, 2009, 09:16:40 PM
How long is Raymond supposed to be sidelined?

As of the last posting on the CCIW board, the swelling is still too much to fully evaluate.  I FEAR we'll not see the 'real' Kent Raymond again this year; I HOPE he'll be good as ever in 3-4 weeks.  High ankle sprains can be really nasty, prolonged injuries, but sometimes they're not as severe as they first seem.

Or, more briefly, no one yet knows. :(
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: ephoops on January 22, 2009, 10:06:14 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 22, 2009, 11:42:02 AM
Quote from: fcnews on January 22, 2009, 11:17:05 AM
Carthage makes Mr. Ypsi look like a guy with a crystal ball.

We don't know that for sure. He hasn't revealed which posters picked Wheaton as their #1 and which ones picked Wheaton lower. For all we know, he may have been one of the posters who put Wheaton in the top slot on their ballots. I won't ask him, of course, since I believe in the sanctity of the secret ballot. ;)

I wish that Democrats shared your belief in the sanctity of the secret balance when it comes to the issue of card check in union organizing. ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 25, 2009, 07:49:53 PM
Mine is in.  :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 25, 2009, 08:07:19 PM
And tallied!

We had 23 of the same 25 (only a handful significantly different location), and the two you had that I didn't were among the six that I wrestled with for the last three spots.

Would that qualify as "Great minds think alike" or "Diseased minds flow in the same gutter"? ;D

EDIT: Got your modified ballot after I posted - your bottom two (and the deleted team) were my #26-28! ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 25, 2009, 08:26:43 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 25, 2009, 08:07:19 PM
And tallied!

We had 23 of the same 25 (only a handful significantly different location), and the two you had that I didn't were among the six that I wrestled with for the last three spots.

Would that qualify as "Great minds think alike" or "Diseased minds flow in the same gutter"? ;D

EDIT: Got your modified ballot after I posted - your bottom two (and the deleted team) were my #26-28! ;)
Exactly the way that I felt.  As I was looking at my representation across the regions, I believed that I needed to add a team from one of my under-represented regions.

As we have discussed before, after the top 15-20, the next 50 are a huge morass.  I saw the UT-Dallas loss to UOzarks.  That was not a bad loss!  At the end of the season, the statistician might say that that was 43%-57% loss.  UOzarks' athleticism matches well against UTD half-court play.

I guess that I would love to see someone diagram the confidence intervals that we have in the statistical model rankings the way that I/we report confidence intervals in scientific reporting.  For example, I imagine a big huge sphere indicating the confidence interval involved in a UWP-UWSP game.  I'll bet that they would almost overlap!  The tighter the radius of the sphere, the more confident that we are of the team.  (The p value might not have to be .05; we might settle for a p=.20 or p=.32.)

Thanks for doing this.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 26, 2009, 10:25:19 AM
In...and the bottom half of my poll is all wicky wacky woop!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 26, 2009, 11:17:41 AM

I've been out of the loop for the week, so it's nice to see that my crazy move paid off.  Although, you understand, this is only going to mess up my ballot even further.  I'll have it in later today.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 26, 2009, 01:01:40 PM

Alright, I have reconsidered my list from top to bottom.  In retrospect, I apologize for putting Carthage so high.  I have moved them down slightly this week to a place I feel is more appropriate.  Incidentally, had I placed them there last week, they would have finished with the 26th most points in the poll rather than 25, which would have been a better spot.

I also reconsidered McMurry.  And while I recognize the critiques against the team, I could not find teams below them whose schedule and results allowed me to have more confidence in them at this point.

Aside from McMurry, John Carroll (#22) and Transylvania (#25) are the only schools on my list who did not receive votes last week; I don't think either pick will be too controversial.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 26, 2009, 01:22:51 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 26, 2009, 01:01:40 PM

...

I also reconsidered McMurry.  And while I recognize the critiques against the team, I could not find teams below them whose schedule and results allowed me to have more confidence in them at this point.

Aside from McMurry, John Carroll (#22) and Transylvania (#25) are the only schools on my list who did not receive votes last week; I don't think either pick will be too controversial.
I want to believe, but there are times that this team just doesn't focus!

The McMurry point guard, Robert Moreno, is as fine a pure point guard as there is in our part of the country.  He is real court leader!  He commands the respect of his teammates and takes control of the game.  Moreno sat out 2 games plus 38:42 of a third game.  A McMurry player was fouled intentionally on a fastbreak and suffered a bad concussion.  Moreno had sat out the game.  The lead had been cut to 5.  Moreno subs for the player.  Coming in cold, he hits 3 of 4 FT's and then causes the SRSU ballhandler to dribble the ball off his foot.

The game line is 1 minute 18 seconds, 3 points, causes one turnover.  The statistic not seen in the book was how he took control of the team and the game by his presence!  Moreno is a real winner...as a player, as a husband and father, and as a student-athlete!

I can see this team gelling and making it nicely into the playoffs or I can see this team laying an egg.  The North Central loss in Vegas was one of those games 66-69, as was the UT-Tyler loss, 62-66.  The HPU game, where we came from 24 down with 17:45  to play, was almost an egg!

The wins over UT-Dallas and Missisippi College were solid, as were the first 30 minutes of the Texas State (D-1, 8-10 on the season) game, where we trailed by 10 with 10 minutes left.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 26, 2009, 07:36:00 PM
#'s 9, 10, 11, 14, 15, 16, 18, 19, 20, 24 and 25 all lost on my last ballot, meaning this week I had some tough decisions and odd placements.



Just a comment:  I always have a hard time knowing what to do with the Pennsylavania D3's, they typically have impressive records but have let me down when I've seen them in person and their results in the NCAA's.  It was particularly infuriating to see Gettysburg beat Franklin and Marshall which offered some clarity only to see Gettysburg lose the next one to Haverford.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 26, 2009, 09:13:17 PM
The poll remains officially open through tomorrow evening if any new voters wish to participate (send a PM to Mr. Ypsi, and I'll update), but having already received ballots from all 8 who have participated this year, here goes:

POSTERS' POLL (through games of 1-25):

1.  St. Thomas       196 (1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2)
2.  Wash U            194 (1,1,1,1,2,2,3,3)
3.  UWSP              185 (2,2,3,3,3,3,3,4)
4.  UWP                 174 (3,4,4,4,4,4,5,6)
5.  Capital             161 (4,5,5,6,6,6,6,9)
6.  Trinity TX          155 (5,5,5,6,7,7,8,10)
7.  UPS                  144 (4,7,7,8,8,9,10,11)
8.  UWW                142 (5,6,7,8,8,9,10,13)
9.  Wheaton          136 (5,6,7,8,8,9,10,19)
10. Ithaca             122 (7,8,9,10,10,11,13,18)
11. R. Stockton     114 (10,11,11,13,13,14,15,17)
12. Augie              108 (9,11,12,12,12,14,15,15)
13. Buena V.         107 (9,9,11,12,14,14,15,17)
14. St. Norbert      103 (7,10,11,14,15,16,16,16)
15. Amherst           97 (11,12,12,12,15,15,16,18)
16. Elmhurst          86 (12,13,13,14,16,17,17,20)
17. CMU                60 (16,17,17,18,18,18,18,-)
18. Elms                58 (13,13,14,17,19,23,25,-)
19. UMD                49 (15,19,19,19,19,21,21,-)
20. Middlebury      47 (18,18,19,20,20,21,22,23)
21. TX-Dallas         27 (17,19,20,24,24,25,-,-)
22. SJF                  23 (20,21,22,23,23,23,-,-)
23. Carroll            21 (16,21,23,23,----)
t24 Centre           17 (20,22,22,24,25,---)
t24 Roanoke        17 (21,21,22,24,25,---)

26. Randy Mac      16 (20,20,24)
t27 Carthage        12 (14)
t27 McMurry          12 (16,24)
29. Transy              6 (21,25)
30. WPI                  5 (22,25)
t31 F&M                 4 (24,24)
t31 JCU                  4 (22)
t31 Salem St.         4 (23,25)
34. Cal Lu              2 (24)
35. DeSales           1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 26, 2009, 09:32:51 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 26, 2009, 09:13:17 PM
11. R. Stockton     114 (10,11,11,13,13,14,15,15,17)

Mr. Y you have 9 votes calculated for Richard Stockton.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 26, 2009, 09:39:46 PM
Quote from: sac on January 26, 2009, 09:32:51 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 26, 2009, 09:13:17 PM
11. R. Stockton     114 (10,11,11,13,13,14,15,15,17)

Mr. Y you have 9 votes calculated for Richard Stockton.
Yeah?

Hey, it's Noo Joysee!

What of it?

;) :D ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 26, 2009, 11:27:42 PM
Poll has been corrected (before I crashed), and this explanatory post was made over an hour ago but we had connection problems at this end!

Thanks to sharp-eyed posters (here and by PM) corrections have been made for R. Stockton, BV, and SJF.  I'm pretty sure the totals are correct, but sometimes I confuse the overall position total with the individual voter positions (with RS I listed them all; with BV and SJF I subbed the overall total for one of the ballots).

[Ralph, RS may be NJ, but I don't allow double-voting; after all, one of our other voters is from the home of Rod Blagojevic and Richard Daley, but he doesn't get extra votes either! :D]
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: cardinalpride on January 27, 2009, 03:30:04 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 26, 2009, 09:13:17 PM
The poll remains officially open through tomorrow evening if any new voters wish to participate (send a PM to Mr. Ypsi, and I'll update), but having already received ballots from all 8 who have participated this year, here goes:

POSTERS' POLL (through games of 1-25):

1.  St. Thomas       196 (1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2)
2.  Wash U            194 (1,1,1,1,2,2,3,3)
3.  UWSP              185 (2,2,3,3,3,3,3,4)
4.  UWP                 174 (3,4,4,4,4,4,5,6)
5.  Capital             161 (4,5,5,6,6,6,6,9)
6.  Trinity TX          155 (5,5,5,6,7,7,8,10)
7.  UPS                  144 (4,7,7,8,8,9,10,11)
8.  UWW                142 (5,6,7,8,8,9,10,13)
9.  Wheaton          136 (5,6,7,8,8,9,10,19)
10. Ithaca             122 (7,8,9,10,10,11,13,18)
11. R. Stockton     114 (10,11,11,13,13,14,15,17)
12. Augie              108 (9,11,12,12,12,14,15,15)
13. Buena V.         107 (9,9,11,12,14,14,15,17)
14. St. Norbert      103 (7,10,11,14,15,16,16,16)
15. Amherst           97 (11,12,12,12,15,15,16,18)
16. Elmhurst          86 (12,13,13,14,16,17,17,20)
17. CMU                60 (16,17,17,18,18,18,18,-)
18. Elms                58 (13,13,14,17,19,23,25,-)
19. UMD                49 (15,19,19,19,19,21,21,-)
20. Middlebury      47 (18,18,19,20,20,21,22,23)
21. TX-Dallas         27 (17,19,20,24,24,25,-,-)
22. SJF                  23 (20,21,22,23,23,23,-,-)
23. Carroll            21 (16,21,23,23,----)
t24 Centre           17 (20,22,22,24,25,---)
t24 Roanoke        17 (21,21,22,24,25,---)

26. Randy Mac      16 (20,20,24)
t27 Carthage        12 (14)
t27 McMurry          12 (16,24)
29. Transy              6 (21,25)
30. WPI                  5 (22,25)
t31 F&M                 4 (24,24)
t31 JCU                  4 (22)
t31 Salem St.         4 (23,25)
34. Cal Lu              2 (24)
35. DeSales           1
NCC beats both McMurry and Carthage, held double digit leads late in both contest, has the exact same record as carthage at 12-5, plays in a tougher league than McMurry(I'm sure most of you would agree with that), and yet not one of you voters would give them a single vote!  ???  Amazing!  ::) 
Mr. Ypsi,
How do you expect to gain additional participation from posters, and/or for anyone to take this poll seriously when you have 3 posters voting Carthage and McMurry as two of the top 16 teams in the country?  While I believe they're both fine teams, their body of work isn't quite top 16 material.  Now I know they received a final ranking of 27th, but the ballots that had them ranked 12, 14, and 16 should have been questioned first and deleted second.  Not posted for the entire d3hoops nation to see!   I know you're better than that!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 27, 2009, 04:43:34 AM
Quote from: cardinalpride on January 27, 2009, 03:30:04 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 26, 2009, 09:13:17 PM
The poll remains officially open through tomorrow evening if any new voters wish to participate (send a PM to Mr. Ypsi, and I'll update), but having already received ballots from all 8 who have participated this year, here goes:

POSTERS' POLL (through games of 1-25):

1.  St. Thomas       196 (1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2)
2.  Wash U            194 (1,1,1,1,2,2,3,3)
3.  UWSP              185 (2,2,3,3,3,3,3,4)
4.  UWP                 174 (3,4,4,4,4,4,5,6)
5.  Capital             161 (4,5,5,6,6,6,6,9)
6.  Trinity TX          155 (5,5,5,6,7,7,8,10)
7.  UPS                  144 (4,7,7,8,8,9,10,11)
8.  UWW                142 (5,6,7,8,8,9,10,13)
9.  Wheaton          136 (5,6,7,8,8,9,10,19)
10. Ithaca             122 (7,8,9,10,10,11,13,18)
11. R. Stockton     114 (10,11,11,13,13,14,15,17)
12. Augie              108 (9,11,12,12,12,14,15,15)
13. Buena V.         107 (9,9,11,12,14,14,15,17)
14. St. Norbert      103 (7,10,11,14,15,16,16,16)
15. Amherst           97 (11,12,12,12,15,15,16,18)
16. Elmhurst          86 (12,13,13,14,16,17,17,20)
17. CMU                60 (16,17,17,18,18,18,18,-)
18. Elms                58 (13,13,14,17,19,23,25,-)
19. UMD                49 (15,19,19,19,19,21,21,-)
20. Middlebury      47 (18,18,19,20,20,21,22,23)
21. TX-Dallas         27 (17,19,20,24,24,25,-,-)
22. SJF                  23 (20,21,22,23,23,23,-,-)
23. Carroll            21 (16,21,23,23,----)
t24 Centre           17 (20,22,22,24,25,---)
t24 Roanoke        17 (21,21,22,24,25,---)

26. Randy Mac      16 (20,20,24)
t27 Carthage        12 (14)
t27 McMurry          12 (16,24)
29. Transy              6 (21,25)
30. WPI                  5 (22,25)
t31 F&M                 4 (24,24)
t31 JCU                  4 (22)
t31 Salem St.         4 (23,25)
34. Cal Lu              2 (24)
35. DeSales           1
NCC beats both McMurry and Carthage, held double digit leads late in both contest, has the exact same record as carthage at 12-5, plays in a tougher league than McMurry(I'm sure most of you would agree with that), and yet not one of you voters would give them a single vote!  ???  Amazing!  ::) 
Mr. Ypsi,
How do you expect to gain additional participation from posters, and/or for anyone to take this poll seriously when you have 3 posters voting Carthage and McMurry as two of the top 16 teams in the country?  While I believe they're both fine teams, they're not quite top 16 material.  Now I know they received a final ranking of 27th, but the ballots that had them ranked 12, 14, and 16 should have been questioned first and deleted second.  Not posted for the entire d3hoops nation to see!   I know you're better than that!

cardinalpride,

You're not reading the poll correctly. Carthage received 1 vote at #14 and McMurry received 2 votes 1 at #16 and 1 at #24. The 12 you're looking at is their point total not a vote. While I didn't vote for Carthage I did give McMurry that vote at #24. There are probably 15 or more teams that you could put in the 24th or 25th spot and make an argument for doing so. I chose McMurry because their D3 record is 12-2 as 2 of their 4 losses were to D1 teams and they own a win against ranked Texas-Dallas. Is North Central one of these teams that could merit a vote? Sure. But there are only 8 people making the effort in the posters poll. If we had 25 posters turning in a poll then maybe you would see some votes for them. In the D3 Hoops poll, North Central over the past 4 weeks has gotten 0 pts, 5 pts, 0 pts, and this week 5 pts. That means that 1 voter could have ranked them at #21 or 5 voters could have them at #25 or some combination thereof. Still not much support and they have 3 times as many voters as our posters poll. Rather than criticize Mr Y, when you obviously don't know how to read the results, why not take a few minutes and submit your own poll. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 27, 2009, 10:15:56 AM
Quote from: cardinalpride on January 27, 2009, 03:30:04 AM

NCC beats both McMurry and Carthage, held double digit leads late in both contest, has the exact same record as carthage at 12-5, plays in a tougher league than McMurry(I'm sure most of you would agree with that), and yet not one of you voters would give them a single vote!  ???  Amazing!  ::) 
Mr. Ypsi,
How do you expect to gain additional participation from posters, and/or for anyone to take this poll seriously when you have 3 posters voting Carthage and McMurry as two of the top 16 teams in the country?  While I believe they're both fine teams, their body of work isn't quite top 16 material.  Now I know they received a final ranking of 27th, but the ballots that had them ranked 12, 14, and 16 should have been questioned first and deleted second.  Not posted for the entire d3hoops nation to see!   I know you're better than that!

Carthage and North Central both lost last week.  Carthage had one voter this week and I suspect its the same voter who had them #8 last week, which isn't even on the same planet as the rest of us.  North Central has 5 losses, one being to 6-11 Baldwin-Wallace less than a month ago.  Neither Carthage or North Central were in my top 30, and neither was McMurry. 

Quote from: magicman on January 27, 2009, 04:43:34 AM
Rather than criticize Mr Y, when you obviously don't know how to read the results, why not take a few minutes and submit your own poll. 

Great idea!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 27, 2009, 10:39:33 AM
McMurry is not on my ballot, yet.  There are too many unpredictables going on with them.

They have an outstanding point guard in Robert Moreno who is coming off a groin injury that caused him to miss 118 minutes and 53 seconds of three games in the last two weeks.  (He came off the bench with 1:18 left to hit 3 of 4 FT's and get a steal that led to a basket in a tight game with Sul Ross State.  Bingo! Five point turn-around in 67 seconds. Moreno substituted for another McM guard, Scott Hurley, who was undercut on a fast break layup and suffered a concussion.  Hurley will miss the tough UMHB/Concordia-TX road games.)

McMurry needs to strengthen their post play and to remain focused for an entire 40 minutes.  They are on an 8-game winning streak, but must play UMHB Thursday in Belton, where UWSP UWW lost over Christmas, and then Saturday go to Concordia-TX in Austin, where NEWMAC league-leading WPI lost on New Year's Eve.

Those McMurry votes are not "homer" votes.   ;)


EDIT:  UW-Whitewater came to Belton and beat LeTourneau 69-58 (http://www.uwwsports.com/sports/mbball/2008-2009/letour.htm) on Dec 29th (neutral floor) and then lost at UMHB 67-73 (http://www.uwwsports.com/sports/mbball/2008-2009/UMHB.HTM) on Dec 30th.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 27, 2009, 11:29:42 AM

I had North Central pretty close to votes on my list (somewhere between 26 and 32).  Admittedly Carthage was too high the first week; I made a mistake.  The CCIW is going to shake out quite nicely over the next couple of weeks.  North Central's schedule is a little back loaded, so I'll be putting more emphasis on the end of their season than the beginning.

Remember it doesn't matter how you finish until the end of the year.

The problem for me is that after the top 9 or 10 squads, no one has a strong case, so it's a lot of difficult comparisons between scenarios and opponents.  I, for one, will be very thankful when a few more conference games are under everyone's belts.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: usee on January 27, 2009, 12:43:08 PM
I am a CCIW guy and I only had Wheaton, Augie and Elmhurst on my ballot and several posters had each of those teams higher than I did on my ballot. I have yet to vote for McMurray, North Central or Carthage but I am watching McMurray as they are an intriguing team (the other 2 are not on my top 30 either). The bottom 6-8 picks are a crapshoot and I bet there are a couple dozen teams that are virtually interchangeable down there. Teams like Middlebury (who has a good win @Richard Stockton but is about to face the best of the NECSAC) and SJF (who still has to face Ithaca 2x) will sort themselves our shortly.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 27, 2009, 01:53:28 PM
Quote from: USee on January 27, 2009, 12:43:08 PM
I am a CCIW guy and I only had Wheaton, Augie and Elmhurst on my ballot and several posters had each of those teams higher than I did on my ballot. I have yet to vote for McMurray, North Central or Carthage but I am watching McMurray as they are an intriguing team (the other 2 are not on my top 30 either). The bottom 6-8 picks are a crapshoot and I bet there are a couple dozen teams that are virtually interchangeable down there. Teams like Middlebury (who has a good win @Richard Stockton but is about to face the best of the NECSAC) and SJF (who still has to face Ithaca 2x) will sort themselves our shortly.

I could've posted USee's comments word-for-word. I, too, am a CCIW guy who only had Wheaton, Augie, and Elmhurst on his ballot, and at comparatively modest positions relative to where most of the other participants put them, and I also didn't vote for McMurry but have the Ex-Indians on my "teams to watch" list.

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 26, 2009, 11:27:42 PM
[Ralph, RS may be NJ, but I don't allow double-voting; after all, one of our other voters is from the home of Rod Blagojevic and Richard Daley, but he doesn't get extra votes either! :D]

On the other hand, if Chuck is ever in a position to appoint a U.S. Senator, I've got dibs. ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: cardinalpride on January 28, 2009, 12:36:38 AM
Quote from: magicman on January 27, 2009, 04:43:34 AM
Quote from: cardinalpride on January 27, 2009, 03:30:04 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 26, 2009, 09:13:17 PM
The poll remains officially open through tomorrow evening if any new voters wish to participate (send a PM to Mr. Ypsi, and I'll update), but having already received ballots from all 8 who have participated this year, here goes:

POSTERS' POLL (through games of 1-25):

1.  St. Thomas       196 (1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2)
2.  Wash U            194 (1,1,1,1,2,2,3,3)
3.  UWSP              185 (2,2,3,3,3,3,3,4)
4.  UWP                 174 (3,4,4,4,4,4,5,6)
5.  Capital             161 (4,5,5,6,6,6,6,9)
6.  Trinity TX          155 (5,5,5,6,7,7,8,10)
7.  UPS                  144 (4,7,7,8,8,9,10,11)
8.  UWW                142 (5,6,7,8,8,9,10,13)
9.  Wheaton          136 (5,6,7,8,8,9,10,19)
10. Ithaca             122 (7,8,9,10,10,11,13,18)
11. R. Stockton     114 (10,11,11,13,13,14,15,17)
12. Augie              108 (9,11,12,12,12,14,15,15)
13. Buena V.         107 (9,9,11,12,14,14,15,17)
14. St. Norbert      103 (7,10,11,14,15,16,16,16)
15. Amherst           97 (11,12,12,12,15,15,16,18)
16. Elmhurst          86 (12,13,13,14,16,17,17,20)
17. CMU                60 (16,17,17,18,18,18,18,-)
18. Elms                58 (13,13,14,17,19,23,25,-)
19. UMD                49 (15,19,19,19,19,21,21,-)
20. Middlebury      47 (18,18,19,20,20,21,22,23)
21. TX-Dallas         27 (17,19,20,24,24,25,-,-)
22. SJF                  23 (20,21,22,23,23,23,-,-)
23. Carroll            21 (16,21,23,23,----)
t24 Centre           17 (20,22,22,24,25,---)
t24 Roanoke        17 (21,21,22,24,25,---)

26. Randy Mac      16 (20,20,24)
t27 Carthage        12 (14)
t27 McMurry          12 (16,24)
29. Transy              6 (21,25)
30. WPI                  5 (22,25)
t31 F&M                 4 (24,24)
t31 JCU                  4 (22)
t31 Salem St.         4 (23,25)
34. Cal Lu              2 (24)
35. DeSales           1
NCC beats both McMurry and Carthage, held double digit leads late in both contest, has the exact same record as carthage at 12-5, plays in a tougher league than McMurry(I'm sure most of you would agree with that), and yet not one of you voters would give them a single vote!  ???  Amazing!  ::) 
Mr. Ypsi,
How do you expect to gain additional participation from posters, and/or for anyone to take this poll seriously when you have 3 posters voting Carthage and McMurry as two of the top 16 teams in the country?  While I believe they're both fine teams, they're not quite top 16 material.  Now I know they received a final ranking of 27th, but the ballots that had them ranked 12, 14, and 16 should have been questioned first and deleted second.  Not posted for the entire d3hoops nation to see!   I know you're better than that!

cardinalpride,

You're not reading the poll correctly. Carthage received 1 vote at #14 and McMurry received 2 votes 1 at #16 and 1 at #24. The 12 you're looking at is their point total not a vote. While I didn't vote for Carthage I did give McMurry that vote at #24. There are probably 15 or more teams that you could put in the 24th or 25th spot and make an argument for doing so. I chose McMurry because their D3 record is 12-2 as 2 of their 4 losses were to D1 teams and they own a win against ranked Texas-Dallas. Is North Central one of these teams that could merit a vote? Sure. But there are only 8 people making the effort in the posters poll. If we had 25 posters turning in a poll then maybe you would see some votes for them. In the D3 Hoops poll, North Central over the past 4 weeks has gotten 0 pts, 5 pts, 0 pts, and this week 5 pts. That means that 1 voter could have ranked them at #21 or 5 voters could have them at #25 or some combination thereof. Still not much support and they have 3 times as many voters as our posters poll. Rather than criticize Mr Y, when you obviously don't know how to read the results, why not take a few minutes and submit your own poll. 
Magicman,
You're right! I did misread the poll!  At any rate, I was speaking to Mr. Y and/or the pollsters that voted carthage and Mcmurry so high!  Since you were not the pollster that did so, I was not talking to you!  However, since you have decided to be Mr. Y keeper, let me say this to you "I do not wish to take part in a poll when at least 25% of the voters are over the top and/or biased in their voting! I wouldn't mind be a voter in the poll if the yahoos that post ridiculous rankings were held accountable for it! A portion of the poll lacks credibility! I will not take it seriously unless all the voters that participate take it seriously! Plain and simple!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 28, 2009, 01:06:56 AM
cardinalpride,

The 'high' votes for Carthage and McMurry are both from the same voter, who is 'eccentric' perhaps, but I otherwise value his input tremendously.  (And his admittedly overly high vote for Carthage last week DID immediately precede their take-down of previously undefeated Wheaton!)  So if you want to use 'nuts' as your excuse for not voting, he's only 12.5% not 25%! ;D 

(Sorry HF - cheap joke, had to do it. :-[)

I make no pretense of a 'legitimate' poll in the same sense that d3hoops.com is.  We are all self-selected, not representative by conference or region (though I've tried! ;)); we just enjoy getting our two-cents out, then debating WHY we picked the way we did.

But while (as a retired statistics prof) I know all the limitations, I still think this poll is pretty cool (and not necessarily all that inaccurate)!  You're welcome to join us rather than take potshots.

Greg, I doubt I'll have the opportunity to appoint you Senator.  Would ambassador to the SCIAC suffice? ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 28, 2009, 09:03:11 AM

Just for some context, two seasons ago my system led me to rank Mary-Hardin Baylor at the beginning of January, which led to similar (probably worse) vitriol sent in my direction.  MHB ended up ranked #17 in the d3hoops poll.

I'm not saying that either Carthage or McMurry will wind up ranked at the end of the season, but I do have a track record.  I am more than willing to admit that both of these teams could easily lose three in a row and fall right off the list, but at this point, in my estimation, they belong.  What they've done this far is deserving of a spot.  These rankings are in no way predictions of how we think the teams will finish, only what they've done so far.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 28, 2009, 10:28:12 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 28, 2009, 09:03:11 AM

Just for some context, two seasons ago my system led me to rank Mary-Hardin Baylor at the beginning of January, which led to similar (probably worse) vitriol sent in my direction.  MHB ended up ranked #17 in the d3hoops poll.

I'm not saying that either Carthage or McMurry will wind up ranked at the end of the season, but I do have a track record.  I am more than willing to admit that both of these teams could easily lose three in a row and fall right off the list, but at this point, in my estimation, they belong.  What they've done this far is deserving of a spot.  These rankings are in no way predictions of how we think the teams will finish, only what they've done so far.
Hoops fan, I had forgotten that you were working off a system for your rankings.

In the context of the Posters' Poll, please remind us often that your system is projecting your ballot.

As for Thursday's game in Belton, UMHB hosting McMurry, UMHB is 2nd in the ASC-West.  That is a tough venue for visitors, and there may be a component of "payback" involved.

In the 2007-08 season, #4 UMHB came to Abilene and lost to both, HSU and McMurry.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 28, 2009, 10:47:59 AM
Cardinalpride,

I find that all of the posters really take it seriously and carefully. Hoops Fan is eccentric in his system. I would be too if I had time to compile my power rankings like I used to. There is an abject lack of 'homerism'.

The only 'homer' vote I cast is St. Thomas #1 from the start but that seems to have worked itself out nicely. Oh, and DeSales since they're helping out a client, but their 15-2 record is also another reason to cast a vote for them.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 28, 2009, 01:07:37 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 28, 2009, 01:06:56 AM
Greg, I doubt I'll have the opportunity to appoint you Senator.  Would ambassador to the SCIAC suffice? ;D

Given his affinity for slotting Carthage on his ballot, I think that HF would make a much more appropriate ambassador to the SCIAC. ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 28, 2009, 11:00:55 PM
Carthage is #22 and McMurry is #33 in the Massey Ratings using MOV through games of 1/25. North Central is #23.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 29, 2009, 10:27:26 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 28, 2009, 10:28:12 AM
As for Thursday's game in Belton, UMHB hosting McMurry, UMHB is 2nd in the ASC-West.  That is a tough venue for visitors, and there may be a component of "payback" involved.

In the 2007-08 season, #4 UMHB came to Abilene and lost to both, HSU and McMurry.


Yeah, this week is where I expect things to shake up considerably.  The ASC is tough on road teams, perhaps the toughest of any big conference in the country.  Probably every team below #15 on my list has the possibility of dropping out this week simply because we're looking at a whole bunch of schools with records that don't speak very loudly.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 29, 2009, 10:28:31 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 28, 2009, 01:07:37 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 28, 2009, 01:06:56 AM
Greg, I doubt I'll have the opportunity to appoint you Senator.  Would ambassador to the SCIAC suffice?

Given his affinity for slotting Carthage on his ballot, I think that HF would make a much more appropriate ambassador to the SCIAC.

I was just in San Diego last week and, well, anything's better than Kansas City.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: cardinalpride on January 29, 2009, 03:13:24 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 28, 2009, 01:06:56 AM
cardinalpride,

The 'high' votes for Carthage and McMurry are both from the same voter, who is 'eccentric' perhaps, but I otherwise value his input tremendously.  (And his admittedly overly high vote for Carthage last week DID immediately precede their take-down of previously undefeated Wheaton!)  So if you want to use 'nuts' as your excuse for not voting, he's only 12.5% not 25%! ;D 

(Sorry HF - cheap joke, had to do it. :-[)

I make no pretense of a 'legitimate' poll in the same sense that d3hoops.com is.  We are all self-selected, not representative by conference or region (though I've tried! ;)); we just enjoy getting our two-cents out, then debating WHY we picked the way we did.

But while (as a retired statistics prof) I know all the limitations, I still think this poll is pretty cool (and not necessarily all that inaccurate)!  You're welcome to join us rather than take potshots.

Greg, I doubt I'll have the opportunity to appoint you Senator.  Would ambassador to the SCIAC suffice? ;D
Since its only 1 guy out of 8, I will reconsider!  I originally thought it was 2 or 3 out of 8!  ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 01, 2009, 11:43:47 PM

Ok, so my top six teams won this week.  No problem there.

However, 7, 8, 9, 12, 14, 15, 16, 20,  and 21 all lost.

The problem is, even with the losses, neither 10 or 11 really deserves to jump up to seven.

Crazy week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 01, 2009, 11:54:48 PM
Mine is in.

Basically, a re-work in the bottom half.

The division is full of parity!  I have no problem dropping a team 5-7 slots, because the difference between those 7 teams is so small.  (Look how many "receiving votes" teams lost as well.)

On the top 25 board, I posted that Trinity bussed 236 miles from DPU to Centre on Saturday and played that night.  That is a real accomplishment.

In the ASC, UT-Dallas is very good.  The ASC-East is a slugfest this year. The match-up with McMurry and UMHB was typical UMHB-home court advantage.  The rematch occurs in Abilene on Thursday.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pbrooks3 on February 02, 2009, 08:07:41 AM
Just for the record, I submitted a poll for the first time this season. I was tempted to place Wash U in the #1 but left them where the real poll shows them - #2. No homerism on my part - I pulled Centre out of the top 25 - they didn't belong there anyway before the collapse against Trinity.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 02, 2009, 08:34:27 AM

I'm in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 02, 2009, 10:10:18 AM
Quote from: pbrooks3 on February 02, 2009, 08:07:41 AM
Just for the record, I submitted a poll for the first time this season. I was tempted to place Wash U in the #1 but left them where the real poll shows them - #2. No homerism on my part - I pulled Centre out of the top 25 - they didn't belong there anyway before the collapse against Trinity.
Thanks for joining.  I think that you are the first one from that part of the country, upper South and adjacent to the Great Lakes!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 02, 2009, 01:35:05 PM
Mine's in. I threw a bone (pun intended) to one of the best stories in  D-3, I think. Going into this season, the seniors were 19-58 as a class, and now they're on top of the NCAC.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 02, 2009, 02:21:26 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 02, 2009, 01:35:05 PM
Mine's in. I threw a bone (pun intended) to one of the best stories in  D-3, I think. Going into this season, the seniors were 19-58 as a class, and now they're on top of the NCAC.

Yeah, you and I both slotted 'em in 25th - sic 'em, Terriers! ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 02, 2009, 09:03:16 PM
We've already matched our season high of 8 ballots, so sac (hopefully) should put us to a new high.  Any newcomers, or returners from past years, want to help us to double-digits? :)

Several places are tied or within a point or two (including among the top 10), so YOUR ballot WILL make a difference (unlike New York Republicans or Utah Democrats :D).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 02, 2009, 09:54:19 PM
Sorry, had to set it aside after starting it this afternoon.  It should be in tonight if I can stay awake.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 02, 2009, 10:06:09 PM
Quote from: sac on February 02, 2009, 09:54:19 PM
Sorry, had to set it aside after starting it this afternoon.  It should be in tonight if I can stay awake.

Not to worry.  My deadline this year was 6pm Tuesday, after all.  That wasn't by any means a shot - I've just come to think of you as the 'Tuesday guy'. :)

Maybe the 'extra' time will get us a 10th ballot.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 02, 2009, 10:22:06 PM
I once had  a "Tuesday girl", but it had nothing to do with a top 25 poll.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 02, 2009, 11:00:04 PM
Quote from: sac on February 02, 2009, 10:22:06 PM
I once had  a "Tuesday girl", but it had nothing to do with a top 25 poll.

But was she IN the top 25? ;)

My Tuesday girl would be Tuesday Weld, but I s'pose you're not into 'girls' your mom's age! :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 02, 2009, 11:04:51 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 02, 2009, 11:00:04 PM
Quote from: sac on February 02, 2009, 10:22:06 PM
I once had  a "Tuesday girl", but it had nothing to do with a top 25 poll.

But was she IN the top 25? ;)

My Tuesday girl would be Tuesday Weld, but I s'pose you're not into 'girls' your mom's age! :D
Tuesday Weld (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuesday_Weld)?

She could be my older sister!  ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 02, 2009, 11:13:44 PM
When do all these WIAC teams start playing each other?


This year is difficult with such a weak Great Lakes Region.  Weak on paper anyway, I have a feeling its better than records indicate.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 02, 2009, 11:29:02 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 02, 2009, 11:04:51 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 02, 2009, 11:00:04 PM
Quote from: sac on February 02, 2009, 10:22:06 PM
I once had  a "Tuesday girl", but it had nothing to do with a top 25 poll.

But was she IN the top 25? ;)

My Tuesday girl would be Tuesday Weld, but I s'pose you're not into 'girls' your mom's age! :D
Tuesday Weld (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuesday_Weld)?

She could be my older sister!  ;)

Mine too.  But those incest thoughts would make it extremely awkward if she were! ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 02, 2009, 11:35:55 PM
We've now got nine ballots (best this season).  Since I originally posted a 6pm ET deadline, I'll wait 'til at least close to that, hoping something will come over the transom and get us to double-digits.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pbrooks3 on February 03, 2009, 08:38:28 AM
I'll continue posting a 25 poll weekly from here on out. I don't get reved up for this exercise annually until Feb 1. Hope you find a 10th or maybe more. I'll put Tuesday Weld in the top 10 - I am old enough to give her that distinction.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 03, 2009, 03:37:16 PM
Things are starting to solidify at the top (20 teams appeared on all 9 ballots, and one more on 8 ), but it's chaos below that as our 'ORV' actually expanded from last week.

POSTERS' POLL thru games of 2-1-09:

1.  St. Thomas    221 (1,1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2)
2.  Wash U         218 (1,1,1,1,2,2,2,3,3)
3.  UWSP           208 (2,2,3,3,3,3,3,3,4)
4.  UWP             198 (3,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,5)
5.  UPS               181 (4,5,5,5,6,6,7,7,8)
6.  UWW            180 (5,5,5,6,6,6,6,7,8)
7.  Ithaca          153 (5,6,6,7,9,9,11,13,15)
8.  Capital         146 (7,8,8,9,9,10,11,12,14)
9.  Trinity TX      144 (7,8,8,10,10,10,11,13,13)
10 R. Stockton   136 (8,9,9,11,11,11,11,14,14)
11 St. Norbert    134 (5,8,10,11,12,12,13,13,16)
12 Buena V        129 (7,7,8,10,10,11,12,15,15)
13 Wheaton       128 (6,7,9,10,14,14,14,14,18)
14 Elmhurst        115 (9,10,12,13,13,14,15,16,17)
15 Elms                92 (9,12,12,12,16,16,21,22,22)
16 Augie               91 (12,15,15,15,15,16,18,18,19)
17 UMD                76 (14,15,16,16,17,17,18,19,-)
18 Middlebury      75 (13,16,17,17,18,19,19,19,21)
19 Amherst          69 (13,17,17,17,18,18,20,21,24)
20 Tx Dallas         53 (16,17,19,19,20,21,22,23,24)
21 F&M                 39 (20,20,21,21,22,22,22,23,24)
22 CMU                30 (20,20,20,21,21,24,-,-,-)
23 WPI                 19 (19,20,22,25,25,-,-,-,-)
24 JCU                  15 (18,21,24,------)
25 Whitworth       12 23,23,23,23,-----)

26 Transy             11 (18,23)
27 DePauw            8 (22,22)
28 McMurry            7 (19)
29 Carthage          6 (20)
30 RIC                   5 (24,24,25)
t31 Centre            4 (24,25,25)
t31 Guilford           4 (23,25)
33 Randy Mac       3 (23)
t34 Hiram              2 (25,25)
t34 Roanoke         2 (24)
36 Brandeis          1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 03, 2009, 03:46:08 PM
One team whose voting really struck me: Wheaton was placed anywhere from 6th to 18th.  How DOES one treat a team who lost (but then regained) a superstar player?

Kent Raymond was obviously not just an ordinary loss; prior to the injury I thought he was a virtual lock for national POY (and may still be the front-runner).  With him back, they may well be a top 5 team again, but you can't totally ignore the three straight losses while he was out (or, for the third one, only somewhat back).

Comments (especially from those who did not put them 14th)?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 03, 2009, 04:02:47 PM
Well I gave Wheaton the benefit of the doubt last week with Raymond out.  But they got beaten pretty soundly by North Central so I dropped them about 6 places this week.  I think I had them #8 last week and I didn't expect Raymond to play this past week.

I suppose for the ones voting them higher the win over Augustana was some redemption or validation (with Raymond back).  I probably don't hold the other CCIW teams in the same light as others either so beating Augustana probably didn't carry the same value for me.  Even though Raymond is back, are they really the same team they were before his injury, for me I don't think that was answered Saturday.



Elms is the one team I'm having trouble with and the poll has a wide variation #9 to #22.  I think their schedule is pretty weak, they have 4 wins over teams with winning records.  They did beat WPI who others are voting on their ballots, so thats a plus, countered with a loss to 6-11 Regis.

Massey has Elms rated #74, with a schedule strength of #357.  I just don't know what to make of them.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 03, 2009, 06:50:20 PM
I am the voter who put Wheaton in at #18.  I had seen Raymond play on the video stream in the Augustana game. I listened to the Wheaton NCC game on the internet.  I had previously watched the video stream of the McMurry-NCC game in Las Vegas (NCC 69-66) in December.  My other frames of reference include the (#23) WPI loss at Concordia TX (whom I saw McMurry beat last weekend), #20 UT-Dallas (whom I have seen dominate Guilford and lose to UOzarks and heard lose to McMurry), the UMHB win over #6 UW-Whitewater, and following several (#9) Trinity games on livestats or audiostreams.

I looked at these criteria.

I noted the three Wheaton losses.

I considered the national performance of the better schools and could not let a 3-consecutive-loss team stay in the Top 15, with the performances that Wheaton has put up.  However, I will permit Wheaton to "float up" as the teams above them lose.

My other outliers include:

Elmhurst at #9 --  (6-2 in conference).  Has won 6 straight.  This may be a product of the "float-up" that can occur when a good team from a reputable conference goes on a streak.  They are my highest ranked CCIW team, and I have trouble not "slotting" the CCIW leader, in a typical season, in the Top10, parity or not.  Their "bubble" may be most vulnerable.

Buena Vista at #15 -- I saw the Cal-Lu BV video-stream and was not impressed that this is a Top 10 team, so I dropped them with the Wartburg loss.  They may float up as well as teams above them lose.

WPI at #23 --   D3hoops.com has them at #22.  I left them off my ballot.  I did a double-take when I saw that Concordia-Texas (in Austin) beat them 86-85 (http://www.d3hoops.com/school/WPI/mens/2009) on Dec 31st.  Considering that was a single road game* for the Engineers, I wondered if they had had too much action on 6th Street.   ;)  Concordia-TX (CTX) can "out-athleticize" you.  They like to run and gun.  They will play up-tempo with the best of them.  If that was the mismatch that CTX got over a "New England" style of play, then that is why the University of New England (with all of its Texans) is doing so well in the Commonwealth Coast Conference!

The two that I voted that are not in D3hoops.com's 25 -- Whitworth at #23 and Centre at #25.  Only my watch list -- JCU and Guilford.

I don't have McMurry in the top 25 yet.  We still have tough home games versus UMHB and CTX this weekend, and then four games on two long road trips (3 nights each, and more than 600 miles on the bus each trip.  Don't worry.  McMurry went to "Notebook Computing in 2007-08, and this bus is equipped with wireless, so the kids can study.)  I believe that McM can be the fourth (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4232.1923) best team in the South Region, and we may match well with Trinity TX.  We may get the rematch with UTD (whom I saw dominate Guilford) in the conference tourney, where the ASC-East is hosting.  The bracket will be loaded with strong ASC-East teams.  So there is plenty of time left.  :)

Thanks to Mr Ypsi for running the poll!  :)  +1!


*Which "deep-pocket" WPI alum paid for that trip?  Were those engineers conducting interviews at Dell Computing at the same time?  :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 03, 2009, 07:45:09 PM
Ralph, you didn't mention it in your 'frames of reference' but I'm curious - did you ever see Raymond before his injury? 

What has me in a quandary is IF he makes it back to full strength.  If he was gone for the season, them are the breaks of the game and Wheaton just has to live with the post-Raymond consequences (probably not even top 25).  But he is back and I can't quite decide how much to go with NOW as opposed to full season record.  Had he not been injured, Wheaton would very possibly still be #1 (and almost certainly still top 5); but he was and they lost three straight games.  It hardly seems right to completely ignore the losses, but it somehow doesn't feel right to weigh them too heavily, either.  (I was one of the four who put them at #14.)

Pat, we ultimately slotted Wheaton just about the same as d3hoops.com - did you have a really wide spread of votes also?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: usee on February 03, 2009, 08:16:13 PM
I am a CCIW guy and slotted Elmhurst at #10, Wheaton at #14 and Augie at #18. no other CCIW team was on my ballot. I think you will end up seeing Wheaton, Augie and Elmhurst ranked in that order by the end of the season.  I definitely let Elms get the benefit of the "float up" all the while I have kept BV down at #15. I don't know enough about Elms and need to do some work because my reasoning for that discrepancy isn't sound. I had Capital and Trinity pretty high last week and their losses (even though neither one was a bad loss) deflated me a little and I dropped them from #5 and #6 to #12 and #13. I am also still watching McMurry and JCU and anxious to see the results of this weeks games. I also had whitworth at #23 and Centre #25.

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 03, 2009, 08:25:07 PM

This was exactly the quandary I wrote about earlier.  By the way, I did have the same top 16 as the poll, even if my placement was different (drastically in some cases).

I had Wheaton #7, Trinity #8, and Capital #9.  I had St. Norbert #10 and Buena Vista #11.

I didn't think the losses by those first three were bad enough to move them below the last two (whom I consider good teams, but probably too highly ranked).

In the end, I left all of those slots the same for this week and hope to know more after upcoming games.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 03, 2009, 08:59:08 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 03, 2009, 07:45:09 PM
Ralph, you didn't mention it in your 'frames of reference' but I'm curious - did you ever see Raymond before his injury? 

What has me in a quandary is IF he makes it back to full strength.  If he was gone for the season, them are the breaks of the game and Wheaton just has to live with the post-Raymond consequences (probably not even top 25).  But he is back and I can't quite decide how much to go with NOW as opposed to full season record.  Had he not been injured, Wheaton would very possibly still be #1 (and almost certainly still top 5); but he was and they lost three straight games.  It hardly seems right to completely ignore the losses, but it somehow doesn't feel right to weigh them too heavily, either.  (I was one of the four who put them at #14.)

Pat, we ultimately slotted Wheaton just about the same as d3hoops.com - did you have a really wide spread of votes also?
Yes, I saw him on the videostream versus Augie there at Wheaton in the Jan 14th game, 26 points in 28 minutes.  I understand how his play might be called "Jordan-esque"!   :D

If, when he returns to full strength, that does not detract from his awards or this team's run in the playoffs, IMHO.  I will be glad if Wheaton is seeded in the completely opposite bracket for tourney sake, too. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: SLP-O-8 on February 03, 2009, 11:34:11 PM
I think that judging BV on their California trip is probably a little too judgment.  It is over xmas break after a long flight out there and most of the players probably hadn't been to California or to the places out there like that so their heads could have been multiple places and they still came out of there with 2 wins.  I understand that you probably haven't seen any other BV games just passing an opinion for those games.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Titan Q on February 03, 2009, 11:46:36 PM
Quote from: SLP-O-8 on February 03, 2009, 11:34:11 PM
I think that judging BV on their California trip is probably a little too judgment.  It is over xmas break after a long flight out there and most of the players probably hadn't been to California or to the places out there like that so their heads could have been multiple places and they still came out of there with 2 wins.  I understand that you probably haven't seen any other BV games just passing an opinion for those games.


Quote from: OxyBob on January 31, 2009, 05:15:28 PMWhat I get tired of is the constant devaluing and pooh-poohing that I hear every time one of these so-called vaunted Midwest or East D-III powers comes to town and gets beat by a SCIAC team. I've heard the same excuses for years: We had to travel, we were tired, we were distracted by the Hollywood sign, the sun burned our retinas, we couldn't get room service in the hotel, our star player didn't have his favorite teddy bear with him, and on and on.

Paging OxyBob...OxyBob, please report to the Posters' Poll room.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 03, 2009, 11:52:30 PM
Q,

That's ALL we need - OB! :o :P

I posed the question to Pat about variation on voting for Wheaton - is that info you would have?  I'm really curious on how folks handle losing while a superstar is out who then comes back.  Discount those losses?  Count the whole schedule (with little if any slack for the absence)?  Other?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 04, 2009, 12:29:23 AM
Quote from: SLP-O-8 on February 03, 2009, 11:34:11 PM
I think that judging BV on their California trip is probably a little too judgment.  It is over xmas break after a long flight out there and most of the players probably hadn't been to California or to the places out there like that so their heads could have been multiple places and they still came out of there with 2 wins.  I understand that you probably haven't seen any other BV games just passing an opinion for those games.
The idea behind the flights is to get the team ready for playoffs (and to reward the team, or use as a recruiting tool).

In this part of the country and on the west coast, we get out of our first round games and then get flown everywhere.

Sectionals 2000  -- #4 McMurry gets flown to #1 Calvin
Sectionals 2001 -- McMurry gets flown to CNU
Sectionals 2002 -- Lewis and Clark hosts CMS then gets flown to Mississippi, then flown to Carthage the next week where they beat a UW-Oshkosh ( which is bussed 125 miles) and lose to host Carthage.
Sectionals 2004  -- SRSU hosts UDallas and then is bussed 400 miles to Trinity. Winning that second game, they then bus 200 miles to El Paso then fly to UPS for sectionals to face Lawrence, who faces UWSP..
Sectionals 2005  -- Trinity beats UTDallas 66-60 then P-P 65-53. They are flown to UWSP and beat Hanover in OT and lose to UWSP by the narrowest margin 61-55 UWSP has in the playoffs.
Sectionals 2006 -- Mississippi College hosted and won the first 2 rounds.  The sectionals are at Wittenberg 773 miles away.  They lose to Transylvania 76-64 which bussed 163 miles, a three hour drive for the Transy fans.
Sectionals 2007 -- #1-seed Mississippi College (25-2) hosts and wins the first and second round and then gets flown to host VWC.  Guilford and Lincoln PA get bussed. VWC beats the Choctaws, 81-55, home crowd blowout.
Sectionals 2008 -- UMHB, the #1 seed, gets bussed to Millsaps, which is centrally located inside a 499 mile radius to host three teams.  Millsaps is bussed the next weekend to WashUStL 496 miles away.  They lose to the host team.

I have not detailed the brackets from all of the west coast teams, but I am now of the strong opinion that I do not forgive a travel game.  If the coach has scheduled it, it meets a need in his/her developing a team.

If we in the Deep South or west coast ever win the tourney, we will have had one or two flights involved.   
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on February 04, 2009, 02:11:45 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 04, 2009, 12:29:23 AM
If we in the Deep South or west coast ever win the tourney, we will have had one or two flights involved.
 

In 04, Point flew to UPS, then, of course, flew to Salem...  When you mean two flights, do you mean before the trip to Salem?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 04, 2009, 03:59:12 AM
I had Wheaton at #10. Last week I had dropped them to #6 after their 2 losses without Raymond but as sac mentioned I thought the win over Augie on the road WAS validation of how good they are with him playing his 30+ minutes a game so I didn't think they should fall any further. Also had Whitworth at #23 and Centre at #24. Didn't have John Carroll and DePauw. Slotted WPI at #25 but considered Rhode Island and Transy. Went with WPI by virtue of their road win over RIC back in Nov. but they will drop out after their loss tonight to Clark. I Think Elms is ranked too high I have them at #21 and feel that may be a gift. I believe they have the softest schedule of any ranked team.

I'm also the one that has Ithaca at #5. I started them out at #9 in our 1st poll and gradually moved them up as teams above them have lost. But for a badly blown call (The buzzer beater that wasn't against RIT) they could very well be undefeated. Plus they've played 19 games and 14 of them have been on the road. That's got to count for something.       
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 04, 2009, 09:35:25 AM
Quote from: PointSpecial on February 04, 2009, 02:11:45 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 04, 2009, 12:29:23 AM
If we in the Deep South or west coast ever win the tourney, we will have had one or two flights involved.
 

In 04, Point flew to UPS, then, of course, flew to Salem...  When you mean two flights, do you mean before the trip to Salem?
It is usually the case to have one-two flights before Salem. 

There are usually three teams flying into Salem.  Salem is as close to a neutral floor (as we see in D-1) as we get.

Point Special, I will appreciate your answer to this question.

Would Lawrence have taken UWSP to OT, if the Elite 8 game at UPS (http://www.d3hoops.com/school/UWSP/mens/2004) game had been played at Quandt or back in Wisconsin, on an isolated neutral floor before 245 fans in Washington state?  I thought that UPS-location "neutralized" the sectional.

Game story -- UWSP/Lawrence (http://www.uwsp.edu/ATHLETICS/mbb/03-04/Lawrence.htm)

Game Story UWSP-UPS (http://www.uwsp.edu/ATHLETICS/mbb/03-04/Pugetsound.htm)

I thought that Sul Ross State had the best chance to advance by being bracketed where they were.

As pabegg's charts suggest now, #1 South-seed Trinity TX may host a first round 4-team bracket or get a bye in a 3-team pod and then be flown out,  as "#014". It is probably appropriate that the sectional from our region go to Wash UStL. That does look about right.  (However, Trinity TX fans will recall when their Men's #1-seeded team (in the entire nation) only got a bye and then a second round game, before being shipped 1500 miles away to finish the tourney.)

We have wandered far.  Nevertheless, games are games.  It is fair to consider UMHB's win over UWW or BV's performance on the West Coast or the WPI loss at Concordia-Texas in Austin as not being an aberration.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: ziggy on February 04, 2009, 02:10:39 PM
You can find regional rankings at:
http://www.ncaa.com/auto_pdf/p_hotos/s_chools/ncaa/sports/m-baskbl/auto_pdf/DIIIMBBRANKING2-4-09
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on February 04, 2009, 03:20:05 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 04, 2009, 09:35:25 AM
Would Lawrence have taken UWSP to OT, if the Elite 8 game at UPS (http://www.d3hoops.com/school/UWSP/mens/2004) game had been played at Quandt or back in Wisconsin, on an isolated neutral floor before 245 fans in Washington state?  I thought that UPS-location "neutralized" the sectional.

Larry U shot amazing in the first half.  That certainly wouldn't have been predicted after the come-from-behind overtime victory the afternoon before, but it just shows the quality team they were when they were at their best.

LU shot 8/10 from 3.  Unbelievable.  They only missed 9 shots in the first half and though I don't really remember too much specifically from that first half, they did get a 10 point lead.  Now, in a gym with 245 people, the roar of the crowd isn't a factor... and the cheers that there were came out about 50/50 if my memory serves me correctly... thus, when LU got their 10 point lead, their fans were cheering, to be true (and I think EVERYONE there cheered louder than usual to try to make up for the lack of sheer numbers from what was an excellently played game), but there wasn't the deflated lack of cheers that there would have been in front of 2800 in SP. 

Now, Point fans are pretty basketball savvy... and over the years, they've had plenty of good things to cheer about, but when they get down, (either from excellent play by an opponent or lackluster play by the Pointers), the Point fans usually cheer to get the team enthusiasm up.  So that lack of cheers would only be temporary, probably right around the time when the team really does need a pick me up.  Lots of times the biggest cheers in the first half are the ones that are in reaction to poor play... to get the ship righted, rather than from outstanding play.  But I digress...

Point is used to playing in front of big crowds in big games, but they also are used to playing in front of small crowds.  Every year, we've gotta take a trip up to Superior, where, though there is usually a small crowd by SP's standards (and a larger one, in general, by Superiors standards), the crowd is usually still a factor.  Superiors hecklers are more effective than those at other schools because you can actually hear everything they say!  And this might be a bad example, because SP lost to Sup not only IN Sup that year, but also at home... but again I digress...

LU shot amazing in the first half.  But Point managed to come back and draw the game back to a 1 point deficit with a half court shot after a rather lackluster (2/8) shooting performance from deep in the first stanza.  If this had been in Point, this would have, of course, electrified the gym, and that previous statement about loud cheers in the first half would be certainly nullified!

In the second half, LU was still on fire... though the fire didn't burn quite as hot.  We only hit 2 3 pointers in the second half too, including one of the best shots I have ever seen... Nick Bennetts game tying bomb with 9 seconds in regulation ... and it was back and forth the whole way. 

To actually answer your question... I don't know if we could have mustered up the will to stick with them due to how amazing they were playing under any different circumstances.  It is so hard to try to take the game out of its context... because we were all so focused on the minute by minute happenings.  The heavy-weight fight analogy is an overused one in the discussion of athletics, but if you look at the running play by play and see that neither team had more than a 4 point lead in the second half, it really DOES look like a blow by blow fight.  And the rallies of the first half, both by LU to take the 10 point lead and Point to wrestle it back at the end of the half.  I'm meandering...  I'm going to refocus...



I think that Lawrence would have at the very 'least taken to OT'/beaten anyone on any floor based on how they played.  They played one of those games that their losing opponent would be resigned to say that it was just one of those nights.  Truly, it was UWSP that had to make the unbelievable plays like the aforementioned half court shot and the Bennett Bomb and Maus's game winner w/ 5 secs in OT.  I mean, two guys off the bench went for 18 and 22 and hit 10/15 3s.  They were just ON.  They came back from an 18 point second half deficit with under 12 minutes and wrestled the lead in just 8 minutes.  They had no business even being in the game, playing against a Point team that had blown out the hosts the night before.

I don't know if having the game in Point would have altered any of these performances.  As it was, the next year, Point hosted Lawrence in the second game and blew em out by 34.  They then again played UPS in the sweet 16, which was a decidedly different game... UPS didn't try to outscore Point like they had tried the year before.  And SP held them to 63 points.  Perhaps these outcomes would have occurred the year before had the game been in Point.  Interestingly, with the second championship run it was another ASC Texas (...) team that provided the biggest test for Point.  Really, it wasn't a test... it was the championship.  And as with Lawrence the year before, Point had to wrest the game from Trinity.  With a tie game at 50 and 2:42 to go, it was Grusczynskis gutsy layup over 6 foot 10 inch Sean Devins that broke the tie. It was not in hand until Nick Bennett's flopping, sprawling runner that sat on the rim for about 20 minutes before falling in.  Jon Krull had another hue play, securing a Devins miss while holding off the much bigger player to allow the game to be sealed with FTs. 

The venue did not matter positively or negatively in this game, as it was too tight to notice the surroundings.  But the celebration afterward was that much more sweet because it was at home.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 04, 2009, 05:43:56 PM
Thanks for the great post, Pointer!   ;)

(Correction:  Trinity is from the Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference --SCAC,  not the American Southwest Conference -- ASC). 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on February 04, 2009, 05:53:27 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on February 04, 2009, 03:20:05 PM
it was another ASC Texas (...) team that provided the biggest test for Point.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: LogShow on February 05, 2009, 02:30:20 AM
Quote from: PointSpecial on February 04, 2009, 02:11:45 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 04, 2009, 12:29:23 AM
If we in the Deep South or west coast ever win the tourney, we will have had one or two flights involved.
 

In 04, Point flew to UPS, then, of course, flew to Salem...  When you mean two flights, do you mean before the trip to Salem?

Do you always have to relive your glory days?  It's so painful for us Puget Sound fans.   :D ;D :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: LogShow on February 05, 2009, 02:36:35 AM
Ahh, Point Special I didn't even see your post (3 above) before I wrote my last post...Puget Sound had a great team that year.  But Point was just flat out better.  I think that Puget Sound would have been able to handle Lawrence or Sul Ross St...we just got the short end of the stick facing you guys first.  I don't know if you were at that game, but that was a sold out pack area and a great atmosphere for a college basketball game.  But Point was very good and savvy.

But you got to give Puget Sound a little credit...even though the final score wasn't close, the game was closer then it appeared on paper, especially in the 2nd half.  I think UPS "wore out"  Point and Point didn't quite have the same legs against Lawrence the following night.  If Point had played Lawrence the first night I do think the game would have been a different story.  But that's just my 2 cents   :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on February 06, 2009, 01:33:51 AM
Quote from: LogShow on February 05, 2009, 02:36:35 AM
Ahh, Point Special I didn't even see your post (3 above) before I wrote my last post...Puget Sound had a great team that year.  But Point was just flat out better.  I think that Puget Sound would have been able to handle Lawrence or Sul Ross St...we just got the short end of the stick facing you guys first.  I don't know if you were at that game, but that was a sold out pack area and a great atmosphere for a college basketball game.  But Point was very good and savvy.

But you got to give Puget Sound a little credit...even though the final score wasn't close, the game was closer then it appeared on paper, especially in the 2nd half.  I think UPS "wore out"  Point and Point didn't quite have the same legs against Lawrence the following night.  If Point had played Lawrence the first night I do think the game would have been a different story.  But that's just my 2 cents   :)

Yep, I was on Point's team.  And in both games, 04 and 05, UPS made great runs and cut double digit leads down to about 8...  Coach Bridgeland said specifically after the 05 game, but I think after the 04 game, too, that the sheer size of Point was something they weren't used to.  Especially when we went into our 1-2-2 zone, we could go with all 5 guys 6'4" or taller, and three of 'em 6'7" or taller.  It was with this zone, too, that helped us run away with the second National Championship game against Rochester...  U of R's Coach Neer dubbed it the Pterodactyl zone...!

We knew and respected UPS both times we played them... you don't have the success that they had (and have continued to have) without being good teams.  But we really prided ourselves on our defense and the 79 pts we gave up in 04 was the highest number of points we gave up until the National Championship game against Williams (82) that year.  It also was the fewest points UPS had scored all year.

One of the things that UPS relies on is teams turning the ball over due to their pressure.  Teams try to rush too much and they ultimately beat themselves by not being able to take care of the ball.  We got layup after layup and Nick Bennett got a career high 37 points because we DID take care of the ball and had secondary break opportunities that were 2-1 all night.  But, like I said, even we fell into the trap (pardon the pun) of rushing and UPS made a run both years.

And the 04 game wasn't a sellout... it would take half of Tacoma to sell that beast out... but it was a great crowd.  It wasn't anything like the second round game we had at Gustavus Adolphus, but it was about half as big and it was just a completely different setup and atmosphere.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 08, 2009, 09:04:05 PM
Point Special thanks for the first-person recall of a great sectional.

I remember that Lawrence play-by-play announcer doing a very good job.

Where is he now?  Anyone know?

My ballot is in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: OshDude on February 09, 2009, 12:30:18 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 08, 2009, 09:04:05 PM
Point Special thanks for the first-person recall of a great sectional.

I remember that Lawrence play-by-play announcer doing a very good job.

Where is he now?  Anyone know?

My ballot is in.
Pretty sure that was "larry_u" from the MWC board.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 09, 2009, 12:32:09 AM
Mine is also in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 09, 2009, 12:05:23 PM

Working on it now.  Will be in soon.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 09, 2009, 12:38:29 PM

Mine's now in.  Not too difficult this week. Teams clearly took care of business and others are obviously on the decline.

My "to watch" list is also starting to shorten dramatically as we near the end of the season.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pbrooks3 on February 09, 2009, 06:24:35 PM
Just submitted my poll for the week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 09, 2009, 06:27:51 PM
Quote from: pbrooks3 on February 09, 2009, 06:24:35 PM
Just submitted my poll for the week.


Just tallied your poll for the week! ;)

We're up to six - hoping for at least the nine of last week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 09, 2009, 11:12:58 PM
You guys spoiled me last week - by this time we had nine ballots.

This week we're stuck on six - I LIKE being spoiled! ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: usee on February 10, 2009, 12:39:19 AM
mine is coming
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 10, 2009, 02:01:40 PM
#7 has arrived and been tallied.  Still hoping for more - right now there are some ties and near-ties to be resolved.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 10, 2009, 06:04:41 PM
We've now reached the stated deadline, but I'm still hoping to hear from two regulars.  Either way, the poll will be out later this evening.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 10, 2009, 09:50:37 PM
I surrender - seven it is. :(

POSTERS' POLL, thru games of 2-8:

1.  Wash U        172 (1,1,1,1,1,2,3)
2.  St. Thomas   170 (1,1,2,2,2,2,2)
3.  UWSP           162 (2,3,3,3,3,3,3)
4.  UWP             153 (4,4,4,4,4,4,5)
5.  UWW            143 (5,5,5,6,6,6,6)
6.  USP              141 (4,5,5,6,7,7,7)
7.  Ithaca           123 (5,6,7,7,8,10,16)
8.  Trinity TX      120 (7,8,8,9,9,10,11)
9.  R. Stockton   115 (8,8,8,9,10,11,13)
t10 Buena V      113 (6,8,9,9,11,12,14)
t10 Wheaton     113 (7,9,10,10,10,11,12)
12. Capital           92 (11,11,12,13,14,14,15)
13. Middlebury     85 (12,12,13,13,14,16,17)
14. Elmhurst        81 (9,14,14,15,15,16,16,16)
15. Elms              77 (11,12,12,13,15,21,21)
16. UMD               70 (13,13,14,15,15,16,-)
17. Augie             61 (10,15,17,18,19,20,22)
18. F & M             54 (17,17,18,18,18,20,20)
19. CMU               40 (17,18,19,19,19,24,-)
20. St. Norbert     36 (17,18,18,22,23,23,25)
21. JCU                29 (14,21,22,22,23,25,-)
22. TX Dallas       26 (16,17,21,24,---)
23. Amherst         20 (19,20,22,23,---)
24. DePauw         17 (19,20,24,24,---)
25. Centre           13 (21,22,24,24,---)

26. Guilford          10 (19,23)
t27 RIC                  9 (21,23,25)
t27 Whitworth       9 (20,23)
29. Randy Mac       7 (20,25)
30. Transy             5 (21)
31. McMurry           4 (22)
32. Carthage         2 (24)
t33 Miss Coll          1
t33 St. Lawrence   1
t33 WPI                 1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 10, 2009, 10:46:52 PM
Sorry, was a traveling and working man this week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 10, 2009, 11:35:46 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 10, 2009, 10:46:52 PM
Sorry, was a traveling and working man this week.

I couldn't recall any recent posts from you on any board - I was getting worried.  Glad it was travel and work, not something more ominous. :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 11, 2009, 08:29:06 PM

I just don't get all the love for Ithaca.  Would they be a top 5 team if they hadn't lost that one game?

They've played well and shown up every night, but beating Rochester, St. Lawrence and St. John Fisher on the road doesn't equate to a top ten spot in my book.

They're a good squad who deserves an opportunity to prove themselves in the tournament, but I just can't put that much faith in them without a little proof.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 11, 2009, 08:54:58 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 11, 2009, 08:29:06 PM

I just don't get all the love for Ithaca.  Would they be a top 5 team if they hadn't lost that one game?

They've played well and shown up every night, but beating Rochester, St. Lawrence and St. John Fisher on the road doesn't equate to a top ten spot in my book.

They're a good squad who deserves an opportunity to prove themselves in the tournament, but I just can't put that much faith in them without a little proof.
IMHO, "Float-up" and east coast bias!

We get one team that gets out of the East bubble, Rochester.

We know what the Midwest does.  Outside of the East, Mid-Atlantic and Atlantic Regions, we seem to get more inter-regional play among teams that have stronger playoff pedigrees.  We seem to have a better concept of how the teams outside those three regions perform on a relative national basis.

However, they may get to the Elite 8 without a reasonable test of quality.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 11, 2009, 09:03:00 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 11, 2009, 08:54:58 PMHowever, they may get to the Elite 8 without a reasonable test of quality.


It'll depend on the draw.  I think there's eight or nine teams in New England that would give them a game.  You never know whose going to get matched up early on.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 11, 2009, 09:42:36 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 11, 2009, 08:54:58 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 11, 2009, 08:29:06 PM

I just don't get all the love for Ithaca.  Would they be a top 5 team if they hadn't lost that one game?

They've played well and shown up every night, but beating Rochester, St. Lawrence and St. John Fisher on the road doesn't equate to a top ten spot in my book.

They're a good squad who deserves an opportunity to prove themselves in the tournament, but I just can't put that much faith in them without a little proof.
IMHO, "Float-up" and east coast bias!

We get one team that gets out of the East bubble, Rochester.

We know what the Midwest does.  Outside of the East, Mid-Atlantic and Atlantic Regions, we seem to get more inter-regional play among teams that have stronger playoff pedigrees.  We seem to have a better concept of how the teams outside those three regions perform on a relative national basis.

However, they may get to the Elite 8 without a reasonable test of quality.

Last year if you recall UMass-Dartmouth got all the way up to #2 in the week 10 poll with their 19-0 record. I think that Ithaca has played a stronger schedule this year than UMD did last year. And as Ralph mentions, the float up and east coast bias has a lot to do with it, for both UMD last year and Ithaca this year. If Ithaca was undefeated at this point they probably would be a top 5 team.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 11, 2009, 10:24:55 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 11, 2009, 09:03:00 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 11, 2009, 08:54:58 PMHowever, they may get to the Elite 8 without a reasonable test of quality.


It'll depend on the draw.  I think there's eight or nine teams in New England that would give them a game.  You never know whose going to get matched up early on.
Far be it for me to rate the Northeast by a single team, but when WPI (17-4/8-1) came to Concordia-Texas (7-14/6-11), they lost 85-86.

CTX (as the school is now branding itself and is using as its URL as in ctx.edu) plays the up-tempo style that has lots of quick, fast, hot-shot guards who play a swarming defense.  It is not a Grinnell style; it is more like Nolan Richardson's "40 minutes of hell".  It seems that these are the type of players that UNE is recruiting.  We have "tons" of these players all over Texas.  These types are at the schools that have beaten UMHB (LeTourneau, UT-Tyler and Mississippi College).

As more schools video-stream their games, we will become more familiar with styles of play!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 11, 2009, 11:50:29 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 11, 2009, 08:29:06 PM

I just don't get all the love for Ithaca.  Would they be a top 5 team if they hadn't lost that one game?

They've played well and shown up every night, but beating Rochester, St. Lawrence and St. John Fisher on the road doesn't equate to a top ten spot in my book.

They're a good squad who deserves an opportunity to prove themselves in the tournament, but I just can't put that much faith in them without a little proof.

I hope this wasn't directed only at MY voters, since we placed them only one slot above the d3hoops.com poll!  (And, while 7th, they were closer to 11th than 6th. ;))

But let's compare them to some of their peers in the poll (chosen because although Ralph is probably only half-serious in his 'east coast bias' accusation, these are definitely NOT east coast teams):

TEAM              OVERALL RECORD    OWP    OOWP

7. Ithaca                   20-1             .528      .547
6. UPS                      19-2              .466      .544
8. Trinity TX              19-2              .515     .511
t10 Buena V               20-2              .464     .522

Ithaca is higher on overall record, OWP, and OOWP than ANY of these non-east coast teams, yet trailed UPS by more than they led Trinity or BV!  Perhaps they are UNDER-ranked? :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 12, 2009, 10:53:44 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 11, 2009, 11:50:29 PM

TEAM              OVERALL RECORD    OWP    OOWP

7. Ithaca                   20-1             .528      .547
6. UPS                      19-2              .466      .544
8. Trinity TX              19-2              .515     .511
t10 Buena V               20-2              .464     .522

Again, I'm not saying they stink, just that they have yet to prove anything.  It's the same reason I've avoided moving Buena Vista up the rankings.  UPS, while not playing a great schedule, have been dominant in nearly every game they've played, including those against their top conference opponents.  Trinity lost by one, in overtime, to Stevens Point, and has moved through a very tough schedule unscathed.  They may have benefited from my deep respect for the road trips made by the SCAC and ASC teams.

Those are just my personal feelings, but UPS and TTx seem a cut above the other two.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 12, 2009, 11:45:57 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 11, 2009, 11:50:29 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 11, 2009, 08:29:06 PM

I just don't get all the love for Ithaca.  Would they be a top 5 team if they hadn't lost that one game?

They've played well and shown up every night, but beating Rochester, St. Lawrence and St. John Fisher on the road doesn't equate to a top ten spot in my book.

They're a good squad who deserves an opportunity to prove themselves in the tournament, but I just can't put that much faith in them without a little proof.

I hope this wasn't directed only at MY voters, since we placed them only one slot above the d3hoops.com poll!  (And, while 7th, they were closer to 11th than 6th. ;))

But let's compare them to some of their peers in the poll (chosen because although Ralph is probably only half-serious in his 'east coast bias' accusation, these are definitely NOT east coast teams):

TEAM              OVERALL RECORD    OWP    OOWP

7. Ithaca                   20-1             .528      .547
6. UPS                      19-2              .466      .544
8. Trinity TX              19-2              .515     .511
t10 Buena V               20-2              .464     .522

Ithaca is higher on overall record, OWP, and OOWP than ANY of these non-east coast teams, yet trailed UPS by more than they led Trinity or BV!  Perhaps they are UNDER-ranked? :D
My comment about Ithaca was half-serious, but these facts about Ithaca allow us some insight on the team.

They are 21-1* (The investigation into whether there was any performance-enhancing drugs involved in the win by Rochester Tech  is still under investigation.)  That takes character, in and of itself.

They have a "good" win over Rochester.

Therefore, Ithaca is 7th on my ballot.

I have great respect for the NWC teams.  They play a solid brand of ball. The WIAC's and WashStL and St Thomas are also there.

I look at this, not as rungs on the ladder, but like contestants in the bicycle race.  I think that the top 6 are in one peloton.  Ithaca is distant from that group.

Thanks for the love given to Trinity.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 12, 2009, 01:44:14 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 12, 2009, 11:45:57 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 11, 2009, 11:50:29 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 11, 2009, 08:29:06 PM

I just don't get all the love for Ithaca.  Would they be a top 5 team if they hadn't lost that one game?

They've played well and shown up every night, but beating Rochester, St. Lawrence and St. John Fisher on the road doesn't equate to a top ten spot in my book.

They're a good squad who deserves an opportunity to prove themselves in the tournament, but I just can't put that much faith in them without a little proof.

I hope this wasn't directed only at MY voters, since we placed them only one slot above the d3hoops.com poll!  (And, while 7th, they were closer to 11th than 6th. ;))

But let's compare them to some of their peers in the poll (chosen because although Ralph is probably only half-serious in his 'east coast bias' accusation, these are definitely NOT east coast teams):

TEAM              OVERALL RECORD    OWP    OOWP

7. Ithaca                   20-1             .528      .547
6. UPS                      19-2              .466      .544
8. Trinity TX              19-2              .515     .511
t10 Buena V               20-2              .464     .522

Ithaca is higher on overall record, OWP, and OOWP than ANY of these non-east coast teams, yet trailed UPS by more than they led Trinity or BV!  Perhaps they are UNDER-ranked? :D
My comment about Ithaca was half-serious, but these facts about Ithaca allow us some insight on the team.

They are 21-1* (The investigation into whether there was any performance-enhancing drugs involved in the win by Rochester Tech  is still under investigation.)  That takes character, in and of itself.

They have a "good" win over Rochester.

Therefore, Ithaca is 7th on my ballot.

I have great respect for the NWC teams.  They play a solid brand of ball. The WIAC's and WashStL and St Thomas are also there.

I look at this, not as rungs on the ladder, but like contestants in the bicycle race.  I think that the top 6 are in one peloton.  Ithaca is distant from that group.

Thanks for the love given to Trinity.

I hereby suggest that, just as we already have a D3 Championship BeltTM, we now assign the D3 Posters' Poll Yellow JerseyTM to whichever team happens to be ranked #1 in the Posters' Poll at any given moment.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on February 12, 2009, 01:50:45 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 12, 2009, 01:44:14 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 12, 2009, 11:45:57 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 11, 2009, 11:50:29 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 11, 2009, 08:29:06 PM

I just don't get all the love for Ithaca.  Would they be a top 5 team if they hadn't lost that one game?

They've played well and shown up every night, but beating Rochester, St. Lawrence and St. John Fisher on the road doesn't equate to a top ten spot in my book.

They're a good squad who deserves an opportunity to prove themselves in the tournament, but I just can't put that much faith in them without a little proof.

I hope this wasn't directed only at MY voters, since we placed them only one slot above the d3hoops.com poll!  (And, while 7th, they were closer to 11th than 6th. ;))

But let's compare them to some of their peers in the poll (chosen because although Ralph is probably only half-serious in his 'east coast bias' accusation, these are definitely NOT east coast teams):

TEAM              OVERALL RECORD    OWP    OOWP

7. Ithaca                   20-1             .528      .547
6. UPS                      19-2              .466      .544
8. Trinity TX              19-2              .515     .511
t10 Buena V               20-2              .464     .522

Ithaca is higher on overall record, OWP, and OOWP than ANY of these non-east coast teams, yet trailed UPS by more than they led Trinity or BV!  Perhaps they are UNDER-ranked? :D
My comment about Ithaca was half-serious, but these facts about Ithaca allow us some insight on the team.

They are 21-1* (The investigation into whether there was any performance-enhancing drugs involved in the win by Rochester Tech  is still under investigation.)  That takes character, in and of itself.

They have a "good" win over Rochester.

Therefore, Ithaca is 7th on my ballot.

I have great respect for the NWC teams.  They play a solid brand of ball. The WIAC's and WashStL and St Thomas are also there.

I look at this, not as rungs on the ladder, but like contestants in the bicycle race.  I think that the top 6 are in one peloton.  Ithaca is distant from that group.

Thanks for the love given to Trinity.

I hereby suggest that, just as we already have a D3 Championship BeltTM, we now assign the D3 Posters' Poll Yellow JerseyTM to whichever team happens to be ranked #1 in the Posters' Poll at any given moment.

but some teams have yellow jerseys so having the Posters Poll Yellow Jersey would be meaningless. You would have to get something like a polka dot jersey so it would stand out against the rest of the teams.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 12, 2009, 02:31:15 PM
Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on February 12, 2009, 01:50:45 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 12, 2009, 01:44:14 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 12, 2009, 11:45:57 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 11, 2009, 11:50:29 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 11, 2009, 08:29:06 PM

I just don't get all the love for Ithaca.  Would they be a top 5 team if they hadn't lost that one game?

They've played well and shown up every night, but beating Rochester, St. Lawrence and St. John Fisher on the road doesn't equate to a top ten spot in my book.

They're a good squad who deserves an opportunity to prove themselves in the tournament, but I just can't put that much faith in them without a little proof.

I hope this wasn't directed only at MY voters, since we placed them only one slot above the d3hoops.com poll!  (And, while 7th, they were closer to 11th than 6th. ;))

But let's compare them to some of their peers in the poll (chosen because although Ralph is probably only half-serious in his 'east coast bias' accusation, these are definitely NOT east coast teams):

TEAM              OVERALL RECORD    OWP    OOWP

7. Ithaca                   20-1             .528      .547
6. UPS                      19-2              .466      .544
8. Trinity TX              19-2              .515     .511
t10 Buena V               20-2              .464     .522

Ithaca is higher on overall record, OWP, and OOWP than ANY of these non-east coast teams, yet trailed UPS by more than they led Trinity or BV!  Perhaps they are UNDER-ranked? :D
My comment about Ithaca was half-serious, but these facts about Ithaca allow us some insight on the team.

They are 21-1* (The investigation into whether there was any performance-enhancing drugs involved in the win by Rochester Tech  is still under investigation.)  That takes character, in and of itself.

They have a "good" win over Rochester.

Therefore, Ithaca is 7th on my ballot.

I have great respect for the NWC teams.  They play a solid brand of ball. The WIAC's and WashStL and St Thomas are also there.

I look at this, not as rungs on the ladder, but like contestants in the bicycle race.  I think that the top 6 are in one peloton.  Ithaca is distant from that group.

Thanks for the love given to Trinity.

I hereby suggest that, just as we already have a D3 Championship BeltTM, we now assign the D3 Posters' Poll Yellow JerseyTM to whichever team happens to be ranked #1 in the Posters' Poll at any given moment.

but some teams have yellow jerseys so having the Posters Poll Yellow Jersey would be meaningless. You would have to get something like a polka dot jersey so it would stand out against the rest of the teams.

They may have yellow sleeveless basketball jerseys, but they don't have the D3 Posters' Poll Yellow JerseyTM -- an authentic replica of the Tour de France leader's spandex bicycle jersey, complete with the patches of numerous sponsoring corporations all over it.

Mr. Ypsi, of course, will be responsible for soliciting the sponsors who will cover the costs for the D3 Posters' Poll Yellow JerseyTM.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 15, 2009, 07:34:03 PM
Mine is in!

I looked around my closet and found an old Jersey from a Triathlon that I lost to Lance Armstrong about 20 years ago.

(Okay he was 15 years old, and he beat me and 5,000 other competitors.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pbrooks3 on February 15, 2009, 07:41:07 PM
I submitted mine earlier as well.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Marty Peretz on February 15, 2009, 08:47:31 PM
I get that St. Thomas hasn't lost a game, but are they the real deal? It doesn't seem like they've played much of a schedule. I don't doubt that they're good, but are they number 1 good?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 15, 2009, 09:19:10 PM
Quote from: Marty Peretz on February 15, 2009, 08:47:31 PM
I get that St. Thomas hasn't lost a game, but are they the real deal? It doesn't seem like they've played much of a schedule. I don't doubt that they're good, but are they number 1 good?

Relax, Marty, Wash U has already taken over #1 in the PP! ;)

The Tommies did beat two SCIAC teams on the road (including first-place Pomona and usually good Oxy) and beat two UW teams (albeit, lesser ones) at home.  All but five of their games are MIAC, which seems down this year.  So you can't hold their schedule against them in a blameworthy way, but, yes, they haven't been tested very heavily.  They MAY be #1, they MAY be #10; we won't really know 'til the post-season.

I'm curious about Wheaton.  You can't totally ignore their three losses when Raymond was out (or sub-par), but now that he's healthy again they are back to destroying good teams.  While I can't in good conscience vote them there now, it would not at all surprise me if they finish the season back at #1.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 15, 2009, 09:55:06 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 15, 2009, 09:19:10 PM
I'm curious about Wheaton.  You can't totally ignore their three losses when Raymond was out (or sub-par), but now that he's healthy again they are back to destroying good teams.  While I can't in good conscience vote them there now, it would not at all surprise me if they finish the season back at #1.

The most recent SOS numbers (http://d3hoops.com/salem/09/owp.htm (http://d3hoops.com/salem/09/owp.htm)) show Wheaton at #10 and these numbers don't include wins (double-digit) against Calvin and Ohio Wesleyan.  Wheaton has the same record as Point does, but the Wheaton team that gathered the 3 loses is different than the Wheaton team that is playing now.  A healthy Raymond makes the Thunder a Top 2 or 3 team.  It may be near impossible to tell the exact order of the teams at the top and I think the points will reflect this.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 16, 2009, 12:57:24 AM
Five ballots already in (including a prior year voter who had not voted yet this year) - I have high hopes for a new 2009 record turnout. ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 16, 2009, 05:32:50 AM
Mine is in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 16, 2009, 11:50:53 AM
In!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 16, 2009, 12:59:43 PM

Working on it now; in soon!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 16, 2009, 02:29:30 PM

This week sucked.  I was able to knock a ton of teams off my "to watch" list, which will make the rest of the season a lot easier to follow.

However, after my top seven (in alphabetical order: Platteville, Puget Sound, St. Thomas, Stevens Point, WashU, Wheaton, Whitewater), I'm not sure there's another team that's worthy of the Top 15.

I don't know that there's much difference on my poll between #8 and #25.  It's a huge free for all in the middle, which may mean a really good tournament this year.

One thing, upon going back and looking at everyone's level of play for the whole season, I think we might be underestimating the ODAC teams (RMC and Guilford) a little.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 16, 2009, 05:13:31 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 16, 2009, 02:29:30 PM

This week sucked.  I was able to knock a ton of teams off my "to watch" list, which will make the rest of the season a lot easier to follow.

However, after my top seven (in alphabetical order: Platteville, Puget Sound, St. Thomas, Stevens Point, WashU, Wheaton, Whitewater), I'm not sure there's another team that's worthy of the Top 15.

I don't know that there's much difference on my poll between #8 and #25.  It's a huge free for all in the middle, which may mean a really good tournament this year.

One thing, upon going back and looking at everyone's level of play for the whole season, I think we might be underestimating the ODAC teams (RMC and Guilford) a little.
Yeah, if their name doesn't start with a "P", an "S" or a "W", they ain't worth...  :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 16, 2009, 05:37:37 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 16, 2009, 05:13:31 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 16, 2009, 02:29:30 PM

This week sucked.  I was able to knock a ton of teams off my "to watch" list, which will make the rest of the season a lot easier to follow.

However, after my top seven (in alphabetical order: Platteville, Puget Sound, St. Thomas, Stevens Point, WashU, Wheaton, Whitewater), I'm not sure there's another team that's worthy of the Top 15.

I don't know that there's much difference on my poll between #8 and #25.  It's a huge free for all in the middle, which may mean a really good tournament this year.

One thing, upon going back and looking at everyone's level of play for the whole season, I think we might be underestimating the ODAC teams (RMC and Guilford) a little.
Yeah, if their name doesn't start with a "P", an "S" or a "W", they ain't worth...  :D

Works even better if you just refer to St. Thomas as 'that undefeated team from St. Paul'. ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 16, 2009, 05:38:57 PM
We've now tied our season high with nine ballots.  If sac comes through, we'll set a new season record.  Anyone else wanna join in?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 17, 2009, 12:35:01 AM
I know I promised but difficult circumstances have come up and I won't be able to do one this week.  Sorry.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 17, 2009, 02:31:05 PM
POSTERS' POLL, thru games of 2-15-09:

1.  Wash U        219 (1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,5)
2.  St. Thomas   213 (1,1,1,2,2,2,2,4,6)
3.  UWW            209 (2,2,3,3,3,3,3,3,3)
4.  UWSP           196 (2,3,3,4,4,5,5,6,6)
5.  UPS              182 (4,4,4,5,6,7,7,7,8)
6.  UWP             180 (4,5,6,6,6,6,7,7,7)
7.  Wheaton      171 (4,4,5,5,8,9,9,9,10)
8.  Ithaca           159 (5,5,7,7,8,8,8,10,17)
9.  R. Stockton   150 (7,8,9,9,9,10,10,11,11)
10 Buena V        149 (6,8,8,9,10,10,11,11,12)
11 Capital          127 (10,11,11,12,12,12,13,13,13)
12 Trinity TX       123 (9,9,12,12,13,13,13,14,16)
13 Elms              107 (10,10,11,11,11,12,19,20,23)
14 F & M             103 (13,13,14,14,14,14,14,16,18)
15 Middlebury      93 (12,14,15,15,15,16,18,18,18)
t16 Elmhurst        84 (8,15,16,17,17,18,19,20,20)
t16 JCU                84 (12,14,15,16,16,17,18,19,23)
18 TX Dallas        61 (13,15,16,20,21,21,21,22,24)
19 RIC                 53 (15,17,17,19,21,22,23,23,24
20 UMD               51 (15,16,17,19,20,20,24,-,-)
t21 Centre          48 (16,17,17,19,21,22,22,-,-)
t21 Guilford         48 (18,18,19,20,21,22,22,23,23)
23 Augie              34 (14,19,21,21,22,25,-,-,-)
24 Amherst          19 (15,19,25,------)
25 CMU                17 (20,22,23,24,24,---)

26 Randy Mac       15 (18,20,25)
27 Whitworth       10 (22,23,24,25)
28 St. Lawrence     7 (21,24)
29 St. Norbert        4 (23,25)
30 NCC                  3 (24,25)
t31 Chapman          2 (24)
t31 WPI                 2 (25,25)
33 DePauw            1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 17, 2009, 09:03:30 PM

For the first time this season, I was not the only person to vote for any of these schools.  Now, I'm the outlier on a number of them, but not as many as I have been traditionally.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 17, 2009, 09:09:51 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 17, 2009, 09:03:30 PM

For the first time this season, I was not the only person to vote for any of these schools.  Now, I'm the outlier on a number of them, but not as many as I have been traditionally.

True on all points.  I was amazed that with nine voters, we were only eight teams over the minimum (pretty sure that's a record in the four years I've done the poll).

Gah!  We're all starting to think alike! :o ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 17, 2009, 10:38:20 PM
I think there's a stratum of teams that are in consideration - the fact that 20 teams all received some top 25 consideration says to me that we know who the worthy are - it's just ranking them that's the fun (?) part (!)

It seems we all tend to agree on UW-W and Capital!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pbrooks3 on February 22, 2009, 06:44:58 PM
I've gone ahead with turning in a top 25 for week 11.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 22, 2009, 09:40:14 PM
Mine is in.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 23, 2009, 05:52:39 AM
Mine is in as well.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: larry_u on February 23, 2009, 09:51:15 AM
Quote from: PointSpecial on February 04, 2009, 03:20:05 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 04, 2009, 09:35:25 AM
Would Lawrence have taken UWSP to OT, if the Elite 8 game at UPS (http://www.d3hoops.com/school/UWSP/mens/2004) game had been played at Quandt or back in Wisconsin, on an isolated neutral floor before 245 fans in Washington state?  I thought that UPS-location "neutralized" the sectional.

Larry U shot amazing in the first half.  That certainly wouldn't have been predicted after the come-from-behind overtime victory the afternoon before, but it just shows the quality team they were when they were at their best.

LU shot 8/10 from 3.  Unbelievable.  They only missed 9 shots in the first half and though I don't really remember too much specifically from that first half, they did get a 10 point lead.  Now, in a gym with 245 people, the roar of the crowd isn't a factor... and the cheers that there were came out about 50/50 if my memory serves me correctly... thus, when LU got their 10 point lead, their fans were cheering, to be true (and I think EVERYONE there cheered louder than usual to try to make up for the lack of sheer numbers from what was an excellently played game), but there wasn't the deflated lack of cheers that there would have been in front of 2800 in SP. 

Now, Point fans are pretty basketball savvy... and over the years, they've had plenty of good things to cheer about, but when they get down, (either from excellent play by an opponent or lackluster play by the Pointers), the Point fans usually cheer to get the team enthusiasm up.  So that lack of cheers would only be temporary, probably right around the time when the team really does need a pick me up.  Lots of times the biggest cheers in the first half are the ones that are in reaction to poor play... to get the ship righted, rather than from outstanding play.  But I digress...

Point is used to playing in front of big crowds in big games, but they also are used to playing in front of small crowds.  Every year, we've gotta take a trip up to Superior, where, though there is usually a small crowd by SP's standards (and a larger one, in general, by Superiors standards), the crowd is usually still a factor.  Superiors hecklers are more effective than those at other schools because you can actually hear everything they say!  And this might be a bad example, because SP lost to Sup not only IN Sup that year, but also at home... but again I digress...

LU shot amazing in the first half.  But Point managed to come back and draw the game back to a 1 point deficit with a half court shot after a rather lackluster (2/8) shooting performance from deep in the first stanza.  If this had been in Point, this would have, of course, electrified the gym, and that previous statement about loud cheers in the first half would be certainly nullified!

In the second half, LU was still on fire... though the fire didn't burn quite as hot.  We only hit 2 3 pointers in the second half too, including one of the best shots I have ever seen... Nick Bennetts game tying bomb with 9 seconds in regulation ... and it was back and forth the whole way. 

To actually answer your question... I don't know if we could have mustered up the will to stick with them due to how amazing they were playing under any different circumstances.  It is so hard to try to take the game out of its context... because we were all so focused on the minute by minute happenings.  The heavy-weight fight analogy is an overused one in the discussion of athletics, but if you look at the running play by play and see that neither team had more than a 4 point lead in the second half, it really DOES look like a blow by blow fight.  And the rallies of the first half, both by LU to take the 10 point lead and Point to wrestle it back at the end of the half.  I'm meandering...  I'm going to refocus...



I think that Lawrence would have at the very 'least taken to OT'/beaten anyone on any floor based on how they played.  They played one of those games that their losing opponent would be resigned to say that it was just one of those nights.  Truly, it was UWSP that had to make the unbelievable plays like the aforementioned half court shot and the Bennett Bomb and Maus's game winner w/ 5 secs in OT.  I mean, two guys off the bench went for 18 and 22 and hit 10/15 3s.  They were just ON.  They came back from an 18 point second half deficit with under 12 minutes and wrestled the lead in just 8 minutes.  They had no business even being in the game, playing against a Point team that had blown out the hosts the night before.

I don't know if having the game in Point would have altered any of these performances.  As it was, the next year, Point hosted Lawrence in the second game and blew em out by 34.  They then again played UPS in the sweet 16, which was a decidedly different game... UPS didn't try to outscore Point like they had tried the year before.  And SP held them to 63 points.  Perhaps these outcomes would have occurred the year before had the game been in Point.  Interestingly, with the second championship run it was another ASC Texas (...) team that provided the biggest test for Point.  Really, it wasn't a test... it was the championship.  And as with Lawrence the year before, Point had to wrest the game from Trinity.  With a tie game at 50 and 2:42 to go, it was Grusczynskis gutsy layup over 6 foot 10 inch Sean Devins that broke the tie. It was not in hand until Nick Bennett's flopping, sprawling runner that sat on the rim for about 20 minutes before falling in.  Jon Krull had another hue play, securing a Devins miss while holding off the much bigger player to allow the game to be sealed with FTs. 

The venue did not matter positively or negatively in this game, as it was too tight to notice the surroundings.  But the celebration afterward was that much more sweet because it was at home.


Talk about fricking daggers.....that one hurt deep.  Man I thought we were going top pull that one out till somehow that shot went in....

I also thought Hollenbeck's three at the end of overtime was good...one inch longer and LU was going to Salem.  Still the best basketball game I have ever seen at any level, and was a pleasure to be on the call for it...
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 23, 2009, 10:30:47 AM

Working on it now; will be in soon.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 23, 2009, 11:01:12 AM

I shifted a few teams around, but not a lot of big moves.  Conference tournaments will really tell us something about who's playing well right now.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 23, 2009, 03:14:43 PM
In.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 23, 2009, 04:59:08 PM
Six ballots now in and tallied.  With the real poll's #2 - #5 teams all picking up a loss, not surprisingly we have a clear #1, but all other spots are hotly contested.  So far three different teams have each gotten two votes for #2, and (amazingly) FIVE different teams have gotten a #3 vote!

So late voters - YOUR vote WILL matter! ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: SLP-O-8 on February 23, 2009, 07:09:15 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 23, 2009, 04:59:08 PM
Six ballots now in and tallied.  With the real poll's #2 - #5 teams all picking up a loss, not surprisingly we have a clear #1, but all other spots are hotly contested.  So far three different teams have each gotten two votes for #2, and (amazingly) FIVE different teams have gotten a #3 vote!

So late voters - YOUR vote WILL matter! ;)

Do we send a private message to you or how does this work i would like to try my hand in it.  Thanks
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 23, 2009, 07:13:49 PM
Quote from: SLP-O-8 on February 23, 2009, 07:09:15 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 23, 2009, 04:59:08 PM
Six ballots now in and tallied.  With the real poll's #2 - #5 teams all picking up a loss, not surprisingly we have a clear #1, but all other spots are hotly contested.  So far three different teams have each gotten two votes for #2, and (amazingly) FIVE different teams have gotten a #3 vote!

So late voters - YOUR vote WILL matter! ;)

Do we send a private message to you or how does this work i would like to try my hand in it.  Thanks

Yeah, the preferred method is a PM to 'Mr. Ypsi'.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 24, 2009, 01:11:55 PM
We're now at eight ballots, but have been frozen there for over 16 hours - any more coming?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 24, 2009, 06:10:31 PM
Since there are two regular voters not yet heard from, I'll wait a bit longer and hope.

The poll WILL be up sometime this evening.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 24, 2009, 10:08:11 PM
I had HOPEd the missing regulars would catch the POINT of my earlier post, but no dice! ;)

POSTERS' POLL thru games of 2-22-09:

1.  St. Thomas     200 (unanimous)
2.  Wash U          183 (2,2,3,3,3,3,4,6)
3.  UPS                173 (2,2,3,4,4,4,7,9)
4.  UWP               170 (2,3,4,5,5,6,6,7)
t5. UWW              163 (3,4,5,5,6,6,8,8)
t5. Wheaton        163 (2,2,2,4,7,9,9,10)
7.  UWSP             161 (4,5,5,5,6,7,7,8)
8.  Ithaca             142 (3,5,8,8,9,9,10,14)
9.  Buena V          138 (6,6,7,8,9,10,12,12)
10 R. Stockton      132 (7,8,9,9,10,11,11,11)
11 Capital             115 (10,11,11,11,12,12,13,13)
12 Trinity TX         113 (8,12,12,12,12,13,13,13)
13 Elms                  97 (10,10,11,11,13,17,19,20)
14 Middlebury        91 (13,14,14,14,14,15,16,17)
15 JCU                   85 (10,14,15,15,15,15,18,21)
16 Elmhurst           84 (7,13,14,14,16,19,20,21)
17 RIC                   60 (16,16,17,18,18,19,21,23)
18 Guilford            57 (17,17,17,19,19,19,21,22)
t19 Centre            54 (16,16,16,17,18,21,24,-)
t19 UMD                54 (15,15,18,18,19,20,24,25)
21 Randy Mac        33 (17,19,22,22,22,23,24,-)
22 Augie                32 (18,18,20,21,24,24,25,-)
23 Amherst            31 (15,19,21,23,23,25,25,25)
24 TX Dallas           19 (16,21,24,24,----)
25 F & M                 16 (20,22,22,25,25,---)

26 WPI                   12 (22,23,23,24)
27 CMU                   10 (20,22)
28 Whitworth           9 (20,23)
29 St. Lawrence       3 (23)
30 Chapman            1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 24, 2009, 10:26:55 PM
Sorry Mr Y I was actually working on it but had to make a meds run before my head exploded.  In due time.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2009, 11:16:00 AM

I was the one who didn't have Centre on the list.  I accept that might have been a bad decision.  I certainly have them in the top 30.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 25, 2009, 11:29:11 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 25, 2009, 11:16:00 AM

I was the one who didn't have Centre on the list.  I accept that might have been a bad decision.  I certainly have them in the top 30.
Centre, Randy Mac, Augie, UT-Dallas and F&M seem to be "bubble" teams.

I drank the UAA Kool-aid and gave CMU a place on my ballot instead of UT-Dallas.  However, that vote would not have pushed UT-Dallas out of 24th.

There is just too much parity beyond the Top 10.  Trinity had its "ugly" road trip two weekend's ago.  That told me something.  There is not that much difference between #12 and #50.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pbrooks3 on February 25, 2009, 06:50:10 PM
Agree with Ralph - from about #12 to #60 I see a lot of  parity.  These bubblers need to make statements in their respective league tournaments. We know there will be some upsets; we just don't know how many and what it does to these C bubblers. Sure is fun to speculate though.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: LogShow on February 25, 2009, 07:54:09 PM
I am not trying to nitpick here, by I am wondering why UPS had a 9th place vote?  I am not being critical, I am just wondering the reason behind it.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 25, 2009, 08:12:05 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 25, 2009, 07:54:09 PM
I am not trying to nitpick here, by I am wondering why UPS had a 9th place vote?  I am not being critical, I am just wondering the reason behind it.

Yeah, personally I didn't agree with the 7th place vote either.  I'd assume they don't think UPS has been 'tested' as heavily as the teams above them, but you'd have to ask them.  (I could tell you who the voters were, but of course I won't! ;))

The voting that most intrigues me is for Wheaton.  They got more second place votes than anyone else, but also 4 votes near the bottom of the top ten.  We've clearly not reached consensus on what to do with a team who loses games without their superstar (IMO the probable national POY), but resumes whupping teams once the superstar returns.  If Raymond had not been able to return, the Thunder would just have to live with being ranked as the team they would then be.  But he has returned to the team we formerly ranked #1 - what to do with those three losses while he was out (or in the last of the three, back part-time but sub-par)?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 25, 2009, 08:30:28 PM
I ran into the log jam at 3-7.  I jumped Wheaton over schools this week because they won the conference.  The CCIW winner says something.

I had to honor a team going undefeated in conference play.  The Tommies did it all season.  Travel in the NWC is something to be respected.  Massey likes both teams, too.

I could not boost them over the WIAC's, just because of my respect for the WIAC, a tougher conference than the CCIW.

I could not drop WashStL too far.  That conference is too competitive to expect an undefeated team.

I moved them to 7th, but I take consolation that we votes have only 12 votes separating #3 and #7 and then there is a huge (and appropriate) drop-off to Ithaca of 19 votes (almost 3 places).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2009, 10:37:00 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 25, 2009, 07:54:09 PM
I am not trying to nitpick here, by I am wondering why UPS had a 9th place vote?  I am not being critical, I am just wondering the reason behind it.

I had them at 9.  It's the lowest I've had them all season.  I don't consider them inferior or anything, but I do tend to put more weight on recent results.  UPS has been winning, but not by the same overwhelming margins as earlier in the year.

When you've got 8 or 10 teams all with dominant squads you need some way to differentiate.

I could have just as easily put them at 7 or even 4; I went with the gut on this one, which is all I can do not having seen most of those top teams.  I'd much rather be voting based on having seen all the teams, but the numbers are all I've got right now.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 26, 2009, 12:16:35 AM
GREAT to see discussion break out here - that IS the purpose of the PP! :D

Accordingly, I'll present my top seven (as Ralph rightly noted, there is then a big drop to #8), so you can explain (gently, I hope!) what a fool I am:

1. St. Thomas - not a controversial pick, since they were unanimous.  They ARE undefeated (no other viable contender for the top spot has less than 2 losses).  I also voted for undefeated (unanimously #1) Lawrence in 2006, even though I picked (correctly) that IWU would win AT Lawrence in the tourney - undefeated has its privileges!

2. Wheaton - they were #1 before Raymond went down; they are solidly beating very good teams once he is back to full strength.  Barring any new injuries, I will vote for them to win the Walnut-and-Bronze.  I honestly think they are #1, but I won't oust the undefeated Tommies.

3. Wash U - I had them #1 last week; I'm not gonna go crazy over one loss (however mystifying).

4. UPS - being in d3 'Siberia', I have no idea how good they really are.  Are they better than all the WIAC teams - probably not.  But they ARE undefeated against d3, and I have no clue which WIAC team (if any) to put ahead of them.

5. UWSP, 6. UWP, 7. UWW - this order is strictly guesswork: I'm fairly certain that all three belong in the top 7 (certainly in the top ten), but where?  I'll accept your guess as as good as mine!

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: SLP-O-8 on February 26, 2009, 12:51:35 AM
I personally went St Thomas, Wheaton, Wash U, Puget  Sound, Platteville, BV, UWSP, UWW.  AS a BV/IIAC fan i put them a little higher them most but thats just because i have watched them all year and know what they are capable of.  St Thomas, Wash U, and UWSP known as well as the starting 5 all played significant minutes last year and 4 were starters.  Bv managed to commit 31 turnovers at Wash U and lose a tight game in overtime last year.  One of the best games and atmospheres i have ever been to.  BV started off the season a little rough going to OT with UW stout and losing to Gustavus on the road.  They ran into a hot shotting Wartburg team that made 13 3s and they werent able to ever come back from a consitent 15 point margin.   They are undefeated at home and would be tough to beat if they were to draw a 1st/2nd round NCAA game.  Fun Fact:  Coach VH is 125-11 at home vs conference foes over his tenure.  Knock on wood this doesn't jinx the conference tournament games.

St Thomas is clearly number one being undefeated and being capable of playing hard week in week out.
I put Wheaton #2 as with a healthy Raymond all year they could possibly have been unbeaten as well.
Wash U couldn't drop too far with their loss but need to bounce back saturday to go into the tournament coming off a win.  Puget Sound had to go here as stated they are undefeated within D3 even though i know nothing about the team they got over there.  I think the 3 WIACs are interchangeable with the order. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 26, 2009, 01:07:15 AM
Since we are the Poster's Poll, we can use the information that we like.

Here is Massey's MOV (http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cb&sub=III&mid=1).  UPS is #1 here.  Using that as a proxy to evaluate their non-DIII competition out on that island, I felt comfortable going with them at #2 and ahead of the WIAC's.

UPS lost to D2 St Martin's 78-83.  St Martins is  20-7.
The other loss was to Warner Pacific 95-98.  Warner Pacific is NAIA II.

I understand the "Kent Raymond  is back" gambit.



Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 26, 2009, 01:14:24 AM
SLP, I agree with all you said.

I couldn't put any other teams above 8, because I couldn't separate the WIAC teams.

My 8-10 (perhaps even 11 and 12) were bunched closely in my mind.

8. Ithaca - based on the front page story titled something like 'Buzzer Beater that Didn't Beat the Buzzer', Ithaca may also be (legitimately) undefeated.  With what I said about the Tommies, I was in a quandary.  They MAY be under-ranked, but I'm just not convinced by their schedule that they are St. Thomas (or Lawrence).

9. Richard Stockton - they just keep on winning, and the NJAC IS the NJAC.

10. Buena Vista - another team hard to place.  VERY impressive record, but I wish their non-con was stronger.

[11. Capital - see RS: the OAC IS the OAC.  I just can't shake the feeling that JCU may be the top team in the OAC.  12. Trinity TX - another hard to rank team from Siberia, but they went 2-1 against the highly regarded triumvirate of Oglethorpe, DePauw, and Centre in consecutive games, and it took UWSP OT to beat 'em.]

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: LogShow on February 26, 2009, 02:05:11 AM
Thanks for all the honest input...I enjoy hearing everyone's opinions.  Puget Sound is on a "geographical" island, but please don't call it siberia...that sounds so terrible, lol.  I am sure we will be matched up with a WIAC school in the sweet 16, so assuming we can beat the SCIAC team, we will be seeing how good Puget Sound pretty quickly.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 26, 2009, 10:09:09 AM

I've spent most of the year keeping down the teams that play in weak conferences.  The only reason I've kept BV as high as I've had them is because of their reputation.  I think I'm normally the outlier on Elms for the same reason.

Neither team had much of a non-conference schedule.  That's one good thing about the playoffs - everyone who's earned a chance, gets a chance to prove themselves.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 26, 2009, 11:46:08 AM
I've kept Elms down for the same reason, HF. The reason why I've disagreed with you on Ithaca and ranked the Bombers higher is for the reason Chuck mentioned: They're one bad call at the buzzer against RIT from being an undefeated team, and if you're undefeated it trumps a weak schedule in my book.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 26, 2009, 12:19:06 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 26, 2009, 01:14:24 AM

[11. Capital - see RS: the OAC IS the OAC.  I just can't shake the feeling that JCU may be the top team in the OAC. 

They are the top team in the OAC they won the regular season championship. :) ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 26, 2009, 12:28:17 PM
Quote from: sac on February 26, 2009, 12:19:06 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 26, 2009, 01:14:24 AM

[11. Capital - see RS: the OAC IS the OAC.  I just can't shake the feeling that JCU may be the top team in the OAC. 

They are the top team in the OAC they won the regular season championship. :) ;)

True, but both our poll and the real poll have had Capital ranked higher.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: kiltedbryan on February 26, 2009, 05:41:24 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 26, 2009, 12:28:17 PM
Quote from: sac on February 26, 2009, 12:19:06 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 26, 2009, 01:14:24 AM

[11. Capital - see RS: the OAC IS the OAC.  I just can't shake the feeling that JCU may be the top team in the OAC. 

They are the top team in the OAC they won the regular season championship. :) ;)

True, but both our poll and the real poll have had Capital ranked higher.

They both may be wrong.  But it's going to be impossible to say where JCU and Capital should be nationally until we get into the NCAAs.  Capital has something of a history of underperforming in the tourney.  Last year might have been a breakthrough year had they not run into a final-four bound Hope team at home in the second round.

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 26, 2009, 06:25:15 PM
Starting off 4-4 kept JCU off of the radar screen until lately. Capital was undefeated in pre-conference play. I'll have to admit, JCU was off of my screen until it was like, "Woah..."

Going 16-2 in the OAC is worthy of a ranking.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 26, 2009, 09:35:06 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 26, 2009, 11:46:08 AM
I've kept Elms down for the same reason, HF. The reason why I've disagreed with you on Ithaca and ranked the Bombers higher is for the reason Chuck mentioned: They're one bad call at the buzzer against RIT from being an undefeated team, and if you're undefeated it trumps a weak schedule in my book.

Gregory,


I'm with you on both of those teams. I had Elms at #17 and think that may be too high.  I did have them at 19th last week and 21st the week before that, but grudgingly moved them up this week. I had Ithaca at #5, which is where I've had them for the last 4 polls. I've been using the " one bad call from being undefeated" logic since  Feb. 2nd. That and a little homerism because I am from the East region. ;D I had them at #9 when our very 1st poster's poll came out back in Jan. and gradually moved them up as teams above them lost.  However, that undefeated logic is why St Thomas is #1. I'm really not sure they belong there and have had Wash U #1 until this past week and finally put the Tommies on top after the Bears dropped another one. So if St Thomas can be #1 because they're undefeated, then I feel Ithaca can be at least #5 because they very well could be undefeated.(And that buzzer beater call wasn't just bad. It was terrible. Ref's should have huddled and made the right call.) I moved UPS into the 3rd spot behind Wash U, because they are basically undefeated as well. I went with Wheaton at #4 because of the Kent Raymond in the lineup story. Put the interchangeable UW schools at 6-7-8 followed by BV and Richard Stockton. Capital, Trinity Tx, Middlebury, Elmhurst, and John Carroll rounded out my top 15. Put UMass-Dartmouth lower than most at #24 and was the voter that put St. Lawrence at #23. Again probably a little homer love there but the Saints handled Middlebury rather easily and got a 20+ point deficit to Ithaca down to 1 before ultimately losing 95-89. Only team I didn't have was Randy Mac. Noted that we have Texas-Dallas and Augie in place of the real poll's Worcester Polytech and Lawrence. I like our choices better.   
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 26, 2009, 09:45:00 PM
Common opponent for UT-Dallas and WPI

UT-Dallas 96, at Concordia-TX 75 on Dec 1

at Concordia-TX 86, WPI 85 Dec 31.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 26, 2009, 10:09:44 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 26, 2009, 11:46:08 AM
I've kept Elms down for the same reason, HF. The reason why I've disagreed with you on Ithaca and ranked the Bombers higher is for the reason Chuck mentioned: They're one bad call at the buzzer against RIT from being an undefeated team, and if you're undefeated it trumps a weak schedule in my book.

I moved Ithaca up this past week.  Their non-con looks a little better now than it did early on, plus they've been absolutely on fire in the last ten days.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 26, 2009, 10:11:28 PM

As for John Carroll and Capital, I've had them in the top 15 for a while, but lately I'm beginning to question how strong the OAC is this season.  Granted the conference is always competitive, but I'm wondering, based on the non-cons for both teams, if they really are among the elite teams this year nationally.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 26, 2009, 10:15:31 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 26, 2009, 10:11:28 PM

As for John Carroll and Capital, I've had them in the top 15 for a while, but lately I'm beginning to question how strong the OAC is this season.  Granted the conference is always competitive, but I'm wondering, based on the non-cons for both teams, if they really are among the elite teams this year nationally.

On those lines I wasn't overwhelmed with Capital last season in either game I saw them, and its basically the same team this year.   The Great Lakes Region appears to be lacking a really strong team this season, I'm not sure Cap or JCU fit that bill.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 26, 2009, 11:18:26 PM
I have Elms pretty high because:

A. 24-1
B. Teams ahead of them keep losing.

But I checked Massey's SOS - #360! Wow. That's like LSU's non-conference SOS. Of course, their conference is heinous, but they did step up and beat WPI on the road by 16. They also haven't played a close game since they lost to Regis. So they're taking care of business, and even in a weak conference it's still impressive to go through unscathed and dominating. Like UNLV back in their heyday when they were in the Big West.

(Not to say Elms is congruent to UNLV - but they're similar in conference domination.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2009, 12:00:22 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 26, 2009, 11:18:26 PM
even in a weak conference it's still impressive to go through unscathed and dominating.

Normally, I would be in total agreement.  However, Elms doesn't play in a weak conference, they play in some conference an adjective for which hasn't been adequately invented.  These teams are playing on a very low level.  Becker, the second best team would barely be a playoff team in the CCC, which isn't exactly the cream of the crop.  The bottom tier of teams in the NE region are really at the bottom.

That, coupled with the fact that Elms has played absolutely no one of consequence yet, is scary to me.  I think they've proven their a top 20 program, but I would really hesitate to put them higher than 20 until they prove something in the NCAAs.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 27, 2009, 12:04:52 PM
WPI isn't of consequence?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2009, 12:09:46 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 27, 2009, 12:04:52 PM
WPI isn't of consequence?

I don't think so.  They might be #24 this week, but they've benefited greatly from a down year in their conference.  I don't see WPI as a Top 25 team overall.

My prediction is that ultimately we'll see (most of) the NE Region schools overrated this year.  The level of competition is down across the board, which only increases the disparity we normally see in the records there.

WPI has been playing better of late, but I can't consider one game in December as indicative enough.

Then again, we have a lot of parity from 10 through about 50 or 60 if we're ranking teams that far across the nation.  So I wouldn't be surprised by a whole bunch of outcomes that seem counter-intuitive.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2009, 12:11:41 PM

Middlebury and RIC are the best teams in the NE region right now.  WPI and Elms are up there, too.  I just don't see any of them as being solid teams that can go deep into the tournament.

I suspect one of those first two may make the elite eight simply because of the way the brackets are set up regionally.  I just see this as a down year for the Region overall.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: BornBalla on February 27, 2009, 01:17:40 PM
Didn't Elms win a game in NCAA's last year and lose on a buzzer beater to Gettysburg? I remember seeing the buzzer beater and think it took place in second round
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 27, 2009, 01:58:18 PM
Quote from: BornBalla on February 27, 2009, 01:17:40 PM
Didn't Elms win a game in NCAA's last year and lose on a buzzer beater to Gettysburg? I remember seeing the buzzer beater and think it took place in second round

Yes   
http://www.d3hoops.com/game-releases/2008/Mar/07/Elms-vs.-Scranton/zjevi3lov93tezhw/25583

and Yes
  http://www.d3hoops.com/game-releases/2008/Mar/08/Gettysburg-vs.-Elms/obk6hjecfivaa8id/25651
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: BornBalla on February 27, 2009, 02:53:03 PM
So Elms has done "something" in the NCAA tournament. I agree that RIC & Middlebury are good teams based on what they have done. BUT didn't WPI beat RIC? So if RIC is a good team , why isn't WPI? WPI won at RIC also. NE has some good teams maybe not great. The NCAA tourney is about HOT teams. If you're a good team that's hot and gets favorable match ups, you can have success. Look at all levels and this can be seen. If decent teams can make runs(see George Mason, Barton in D2 a few years back and others). Don't know teams in other regions so can't speak on them but NE has some quality teams outside of just RIC and Middlebury. WPI is definitely one of them. I think UMD, SSC, Elms,BSC,and Brandeis can do something in tourney if they get it going and get those match ups.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 27, 2009, 07:59:34 PM
BornBalla, you're putting too much emphasis on single games for my taste.  Beating A good team does not necessarily qualify one as good (upsets DO happen).

Elms' tourney wins last year might matter in a November poll; they're pretty irrelevant by now.  (Besides, with the regional pairings in d3, there are often 'pods' where someone has to win, even if none of them are very good.)

None of this should be construed as a 'knock' on Elms.  Personally, I had them at 13, but I have no clue if that is too high or too low - this year's tourney may give us an answer.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 27, 2009, 10:07:55 PM
I think it's a kooky, nutty, wacky year all in all...A can beat B and then get blown out by C, while B beats C handily.

Ohio Wesleyan was in the mix for a "C", but then they lost to a blah Allegheny team not once, but twice (back to back, even) and both at home.

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 27, 2009, 10:45:32 PM
Wheaton beats North Central 77-66 behind Kent Raymonds 36 pts
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 01, 2009, 05:45:41 PM

Mine's in.


One major correction.  I have had Centre underestimated for most of the season.  I have rectified their position.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pbrooks3 on March 01, 2009, 10:37:08 PM
Got my poll in for the week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 01, 2009, 11:57:19 PM
To my pleasant surprise, 4 ballots already in (and none of them from Ralph who nearly always votes first ;)).  Because of the distractions with selection, plotting pickems, etc., I probably won't try to 'publish' before Wednesday - let's set a new record for number of voters!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 02, 2009, 01:13:31 AM
Mine is in.   :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on March 02, 2009, 03:13:02 AM
And mine makes 6.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 03, 2009, 10:30:19 AM

What happened to our poll?  I thought we were on pace to get it done early.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 03, 2009, 11:50:03 AM
Some ballots came in earlier than usual, but some voters are occupied with selection and pickems - we've currently got seven, but I'm hoping for nine or ten.

I'll probably put it out tomorrow evening.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 04, 2009, 02:36:20 PM
We're currently stuck on eight ballots - any more likely?  sac?  PS?  SLP-0-8?  anyone?

Either way, I'll post this evening (unless someone intends to vote and needs more time).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on March 04, 2009, 08:08:16 PM
After a couple week absense for various reasons, I've submitted my ballot.

Its a bit harder when you've taken some time away, but some of the reasons you might have been holding back or progressing a team disapear.  Look forward to seeing the final results.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 04, 2009, 09:18:25 PM
Final Regular Season POSTERS' POLL (thru games of 3-1-09):

1.  St Thomas      225 (unanimous)
2.  Wash U          211 (2,2,2,2,2,3,3,3,4)
3.  Wheaton       208 (2,2,2,2,3,3,3,3,6)
4.  UWSP            199 (3,3,4,4,4,4,4,4,5)
5.  UWP              182 (5,5,5,5,6,6,6,7,7)
6.  UPS               179 (4,4,5,5,5,6,8,8,10)
7.  UWW             174 (6,6,6,6,7,7,7,7,8)
8.  R. Stockton    161 (5,8,8,8,8,9,9,9,9)
t9. JCU                139 (7,9,9,10,10,10,12,13,15)
t9. Middlebury     139 (7,9,9,10,11,11,12,12,14)
11. Ithaca            124 (8,8,11,12,13,14,14,15,15)
12. Capital           121 (10,12,12,12,13,13,13,14,14)
13. Elms               108 (9,11,11,11,12,16,17,19,20)
14. Buena V         106 (10,10,14,14,15,16,16,16,17)
15. Centre           102 (11,12,13,13,14,16,17,18,18)
16. Trinity TX         91 (11,13,16,17,17,17,17,17,18)
17. UMD                87 (10,13,15,15,15,16,18,21,24)
18. Elmhurst         81 (7,14,15,15,18,18,21,21,24)
19. TX Dallas         60 (11,18,18,20,20,21,22,22,22)
20. RIC                  47 (17,19,19,19,19,20,23,25,-)
21. Transy             35 (19,19,21,22,22,22,24,25,25)
22. Whitworth       34 (16,19,20,23,23,23,24,-,-)
23. Lawrence        28 (20,20,21,22,22,23,-,-,-)
24. Guilford           23 (20,21,21,23,23,25,-,-,-)
25. CMU                17 (19,20,23,25,-,-,-,-,-)

26. Amherst           15 (16,24,24,25)
27. Augie               14 (18,22,24)
28. CMS                  7 (21,24)
29. Widener            3 (23)
t30 Chapman          2 (24)
t30 Randy Mac        2 (25,25)
32. St. Lawrence     1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on March 05, 2009, 03:07:35 PM
I have to wonder how the tournament will blow up the top 7, since only 1 of those teams will make it to Salem.

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 05, 2009, 05:22:42 PM

For a second there I thought I had nailed all 25 for the first time ever.  However, I had Augustana in rather than CMU.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 05, 2009, 05:23:30 PM
Quote from: sac on March 05, 2009, 03:07:35 PM
I have to wonder how the tournament will blow up the top 7, since only 1 of those teams will make it to Salem.


I think it might be the opposite.  There are much fewer chances for those top 7 to lose to a bad team.

I'm guessing that if no one in positions 8-11 wins the whole thing, the top seven may remain pretty well intact.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on March 05, 2009, 06:25:03 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 05, 2009, 05:23:30 PM
Quote from: sac on March 05, 2009, 03:07:35 PM
I have to wonder how the tournament will blow up the top 7, since only 1 of those teams will make it to Salem.


I think it might be the opposite.  There are much fewer chances for those top 7 to lose to a bad team.

I'm guessing that if no one in positions 8-11 wins the whole thing, the top seven may remain pretty well intact.

Good point. I think you're right. They will get re-shuffled a little depending on who beats who in those 2nd round matchups. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on March 05, 2009, 06:26:48 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 05, 2009, 05:23:30 PM
Quote from: sac on March 05, 2009, 03:07:35 PM
I have to wonder how the tournament will blow up the top 7, since only 1 of those teams will make it to Salem.


I think it might be the opposite.  There are much fewer chances for those top 7 to lose to a bad team.

I'm guessing that if no one in positions 8-11 wins the whole thing, the top seven may remain pretty well intact.

That could be, but what if Wheaton loses in round 2........still a top 5?

More than likely at least 2 or 3 of our fellow posters will vote 1-4 as the final four teams.  Most of these top 7 are still going to be within the top 10 I'd presume.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 07, 2009, 02:10:43 AM
I hereby yield to the Elms doubters - SUNYIT??!!

Since Buena Vista was almost equally untested, I'm gonna have to think about that one (but please don't leave them out of the final vote JUST because they were not selected - every year the NCAA omits at least one top 25 team; it's tradition! :D)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on March 07, 2009, 06:28:52 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 07, 2009, 02:10:43 AM
I hereby yield to the Elms doubters - SUNYIT??!!

Since Buena Vista was almost equally untested, I'm gonna have to think about that one (but please don't leave them out of the final vote JUST because they were not selected - every year the NCAA omits at least one top 25 team; it's tradition! :D)

Thank you. I was one of the Elms doubters. I know Gregory and Hoops Fan were also . 5 of us were doubting Amherst  as well this week, with good reason. Gwynedd-Mercy??
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on March 07, 2009, 10:51:50 AM
I think anyone can beat anyone given the right circumstance.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 07, 2009, 04:52:27 PM
Quote from: magicman on March 07, 2009, 06:28:52 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 07, 2009, 02:10:43 AM
I hereby yield to the Elms doubters - SUNYIT??!!

Since Buena Vista was almost equally untested, I'm gonna have to think about that one (but please don't leave them out of the final vote JUST because they were not selected - every year the NCAA omits at least one top 25 team; it's tradition!

Thank you. I was one of the Elms doubters. I know Gregory and Hoops Fan were also . 5 of us were doubting Amherst  as well this week, with good reason. Gwynedd-Mercy??

Gwynedd Mercy's been on my radar all year, they just didn't have any showcase wins for me to jump on them.  I don't think the Amherst lost was bad, in theory, but their poor play is going to be the culprit here.  Still, I don't think it was huge upset, at least not in my estimation.  (I actually called it on my bracket pick'em).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 21, 2009, 09:13:10 PM
Mine's in.  Final 2009 Posters Poll.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on March 22, 2009, 08:55:32 AM
My final poll is in as well.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 23, 2009, 12:39:27 AM

Working on it now; shouldn't be too long.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 23, 2009, 01:21:56 AM

Mine's now in.

Lot's of South and Midwest region teams leaping up the poll at the expense of the NE and E regions.

Teams that fell from my ballot entirely: Elms, Amherst, Centre, and Whitworth

Teams that replaced them on my ballot: Wooster, St. Lawrence, Brandeis, and Franklin & Marshall.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 23, 2009, 01:53:46 AM
Four ballots in and tallied so far.

The tourney blew a huge hole in our consensus.  The previous poll had 9 voters and only 32 teams named.  After four voters, we already have 35 teams named! :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: BornBalla on March 23, 2009, 02:30:01 PM
So with Elms quick exit from the tourney they drop out of the poll? They were #11 in last poll before tourney. They shot horrible from the floor in NCAA game and SUNYIT shot very well. I saw the second half of game and Elms missed shots. Simple as that. Don't think they should be bumped out of poll all together. Final poll should not reflect teams who got hot. Elms was 26-2 and did beat teams up. they did play weaker schedule but they did beat the teams by 24+. Same can be said for Centre.

I can see dropping Amherst because they were 25 but doesn't seem logical to take a 11 and 15 ranked team and toss them out.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 23, 2009, 02:50:47 PM
I'll get a ballot in to you sometime this evening, Chuck.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 23, 2009, 03:18:24 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 23, 2009, 01:53:46 AM
Four ballots in and tallied so far.

The tourney blew a huge hole in our consensus.  The previous poll had 9 voters and only 32 teams named.  After four voters, we already have 35 teams named! :D
Thanks to Mr Ypsi for providing a surrogate poll upon which we fans can pontificate.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on March 23, 2009, 06:58:46 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 23, 2009, 03:18:24 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 23, 2009, 01:53:46 AM
Four ballots in and tallied so far.

The tourney blew a huge hole in our consensus.  The previous poll had 9 voters and only 32 teams named.  After four voters, we already have 35 teams named! :D
Thanks to Mr Ypsi for providing a surrogate poll upon which we fans can pontificate.


Let me also add my thanks to Mr Y for doing this again this year.


While filling out my poll one thing really stood out, the first was just how much of a bracket of death the Wheaton Sectional really was.  It was quite a contrast to the "right side" of the bracket where 3 or 4 cinderellas's (ie not ranked) had great runs in the tournament (Bridgewater St., Farmingdale, DeSales even Franklin and Marshall).  The Wheaton Sectional was just too strong for a cinderella type to emerge.  Any of 7 teams could have come out of that sectional and I'd give just as strong a chance to come home with the big prize as anyone else.

I felt really good with my poll right up untill about #12. The last 13 or so spots was really difficult.  I had an awfull time finding a #25 that didn't finish with a bad loss in the tournament.  So much so I changed it after sending it to Mr Y.

Look forward to the results.


Maybe we should do a pre-season poll for 09-10  :P
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 23, 2009, 10:37:20 PM

Yeah, I was amazed at how little credit I was able to give F&M for their Final Four run.  They didn't really have to play an impressive opponent until Richard Stockton.  That was the same reason I just couldn't justify putting DeSales in there either.

If anything, even losing to a good team on the left side of the bracket improved position in my mind.  I moved Lawrence up ten slots for their game against WashU.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: D.B. Cooper on March 23, 2009, 10:52:58 PM
HF: Didn't DeSales win a game at Ithaca? Plus if nothing else F&M opening up a 20 point lead on Brandeis & holding on to win & leading Stockton for much of the game until the last 90 seconds should count for both teams at least being considered as potential top 20 teams. Discount F&M now, but next year their Freshman & Sophomore line up will be a year older may not falter if they get back to Salem.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 23, 2009, 11:33:10 PM
Quote from: D.B. Cooper on March 23, 2009, 10:52:58 PM
HF: Didn't DeSales win a game at Ithaca? Plus if nothing else F&M opening up a 20 point lead on Brandeis & holding on to win & leading Stockton for much of the game until the last 90 seconds should count for both teams at least being considered as potential top 20 teams. Discount F&M now, but next year their Freshman & Sophomore line up will be a year older may not falter if they get back to Salem.

I put F&M at #20.  They were flirting with the top 20 most of the year; they're tourney run proved their value.

I never really had Ithaca above #15 and that was when I was overestimating the region.

The problem comes when comparing really good teams that lost the wrong games (Brandeis, Centre, etc) with the teams that have solid records, but the right wins at the right time (DeSales, Farmingdale, Bridgewater, etc).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on March 24, 2009, 12:00:15 AM
Quote from: D.B. Cooper on March 23, 2009, 10:52:58 PM
HF: Didn't DeSales win a game at Ithaca? Plus if nothing else F&M opening up a 20 point lead on Brandeis & holding on to win & leading Stockton for much of the game until the last 90 seconds should count for both teams at least being considered as potential top 20 teams. Discount F&M now, but next year their Freshman & Sophomore line up will be a year older may not falter if they get back to Salem.

F&M was and probably will be hurt in the poll/polls a bit by their late regular season slide.  That slide left them out of my final reg. season poll, so their hill was higher to climb to get back on my good graces.  I think I had them around #13 to #15.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 24, 2009, 12:22:13 AM
The "left" bracket was just too strong for me this year.  As much as I tried to "fight" the "Bracket of Death" "group-think", I just could not displace them too far from the higher rankings that I gave them.  I did come away with a greater perception of the advantage of travel and of regional styles and how thin the difference is between #12 and #40. 

If you are not flying regularly in your schedule (as the UAA does), then that is a great disruptor!  Home court advantage for teams greater than 350 miles away from their opponent can be a big factor that we cannot solve.

I don't see how St Lawrence could play five guys 32+ minutes and only go 7 deep (as they did in the RSNJ game) in the ASC.  Now SLU will never play a meaningful game versus an ASC team, but the tempo and intensity in the ASC is much faster.

How much did losing Isham Poe in the SLU game hurt RSNJ?  Last season Poe gave them 14 starts and 15 minutes per game, 6 ppg, 4 rpg, 1 spg and 0.6 bpg.  What is his is the hot hand in the Final Four?

Video streaming really hit the next level in penetration.  I was able to get into conference games that I had not seen...MWC, E8, CCC, SCIAC, IIAC.  This should be really fun next year!

Just thoughts...more later when the bracket is released.  :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 24, 2009, 12:44:33 AM
Quote from: sac on March 24, 2009, 12:00:15 AM
Quote from: D.B. Cooper on March 23, 2009, 10:52:58 PM
HF: Didn't DeSales win a game at Ithaca? Plus if nothing else F&M opening up a 20 point lead on Brandeis & holding on to win & leading Stockton for much of the game until the last 90 seconds should count for both teams at least being considered as potential top 20 teams. Discount F&M now, but next year their Freshman & Sophomore line up will be a year older may not falter if they get back to Salem.

F&M was and probably will be hurt in the poll/polls a bit by their late regular season slide.  That slide left them out of my final reg. season poll, so their hill was higher to climb to get back on my good graces.  I think I had them around #13 to #15.

#12, actually (which is the highest of any voter so far - otherwise they're #13-20).  I never 'out' a voter, but you 'outed' yourself, so I corrected. ;)

So far, the top six are pretty solid (not necessarily in the same order, but they have all but two of the top six votes), but after that it is chaos.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: usee on March 24, 2009, 12:12:08 PM
My poll is in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on March 24, 2009, 04:25:38 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 24, 2009, 12:44:33 AM
Quote from: sac on March 24, 2009, 12:00:15 AM
Quote from: D.B. Cooper on March 23, 2009, 10:52:58 PM
HF: Didn't DeSales win a game at Ithaca? Plus if nothing else F&M opening up a 20 point lead on Brandeis & holding on to win & leading Stockton for much of the game until the last 90 seconds should count for both teams at least being considered as potential top 20 teams. Discount F&M now, but next year their Freshman & Sophomore line up will be a year older may not falter if they get back to Salem.

F&M was and probably will be hurt in the poll/polls a bit by their late regular season slide.  That slide left them out of my final reg. season poll, so their hill was higher to climb to get back on my good graces.  I think I had them around #13 to #15.

#12, actually (which is the highest of any voter so far - otherwise they're #13-20).  I never 'out' a voter, but you 'outed' yourself, so I corrected. ;)

all I could think was this..............http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtvFbXG-7Mw&feature=related
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 24, 2009, 05:59:50 PM
Quote from: sac on March 24, 2009, 04:25:38 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 24, 2009, 12:44:33 AM
Quote from: sac on March 24, 2009, 12:00:15 AM
Quote from: D.B. Cooper on March 23, 2009, 10:52:58 PM
HF: Didn't DeSales win a game at Ithaca? Plus if nothing else F&M opening up a 20 point lead on Brandeis & holding on to win & leading Stockton for much of the game until the last 90 seconds should count for both teams at least being considered as potential top 20 teams. Discount F&M now, but next year their Freshman & Sophomore line up will be a year older may not falter if they get back to Salem.

F&M was and probably will be hurt in the poll/polls a bit by their late regular season slide.  That slide left them out of my final reg. season poll, so their hill was higher to climb to get back on my good graces.  I think I had them around #13 to #15.

#12, actually (which is the highest of any voter so far - otherwise they're #13-20).  I never 'out' a voter, but you 'outed' yourself, so I corrected. ;)

all I could think was this..............http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtvFbXG-7Mw&feature=related

LOL!  +k
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 24, 2009, 06:02:41 PM
We're now at seven ballots.  There's no urgency (no more games for almost 8 months :(), but I'll probably post the poll this evening unless anyone informs me they still want to vote.  Anyone?  Bueller?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 24, 2009, 10:52:52 PM
FINAL POSTERS' POOL FOR 2008-09:

1.  Wash U       175 (unanimous)
2.  Wheaton     164 (2,2,2,2,3,3,4)
3.  St. Thomas  155 (2,2,3,3,4,5,8)
4.  UWP            151 (3,3,4,5,5,5,6)
5.  UWSP          146 (4,4,4,5,6,6,7)
6.  UWW           144 (3,4,6,6,6,6,7)
7.  R. Stockton   134 (5,5,7,7,7,8,9)
8.  Guilford        122 (8,8,8,8,9,9,10)
9.  UPS              112 (7,7,9,9,10,13,15)
10 TX Dallas      108 (9,9,10,11,11,11,13)
11 Elmhurst       101 (8,10,10,12,13,14,14)
12 JCU                 98 (10,10,11,12,12,13,16)
13 Capital            88 (11,12,12,14,14,14,17)
t14 F&M               80 (11.12.13.14,15,17,20)
t14 Lawrence      80 (2,11,12,13,15,23,-)
16 Trinity TX         55 (15,16,17,17,18,19,25)
17 Buena V          42 (17,17,18,19,20,23,-)
t18 Ithaca            33 (16,18,19,21,23,-,-)
t18 Middlebury     33 (15,16,22.23.23.24,-)
t18 Transy            33 (15,16,21,23,24,24,-)
21 UMD                 30 (13,14,22,25,-,-,-)
22 DeSales           29 (15,18,19,24,25,-,-)
23 CMU                 26 (16,18,18,-,-,-,-)
24 St. Lawrence   23 19,19,21,22,-,-,-)
25 Augie               20 (17,18,23,-,-,-,-)

26 Wooster           19 (19,20,20)
27 Centre              14 (20,22,22)
t28 Salem St          10 (20,22)
t28 Thomas More   10 (16)
30 Gwynned-M        8 (20,24)
t31 Farmingdale      6 (21,25)
t31 Whitworth        6 (22,25,25)
t33 Averett             5 (21)
t33 Elms                 5 (21)
t33 Miss Col            5 (21)
t36 Brandeis           2 (24)
t36 WPI                   2 (24)
38  RIC                    1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on March 24, 2009, 11:38:42 PM
Good job Mr Y.

I thought you missed a 2nd place vote as I scoured the top 10 and couldn't find it.   
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 25, 2009, 12:10:39 AM
Quote from: magicman on March 24, 2009, 11:38:42 PM
Good job Mr Y.

I thought you missed a 2nd place vote as I scoured the top 10 and couldn't find it.   

Check Lawrence - not a typo. ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on March 25, 2009, 12:25:36 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 25, 2009, 12:10:39 AM
Quote from: magicman on March 24, 2009, 11:38:42 PM
Good job Mr Y.

I thought you missed a 2nd place vote as I scoured the top 10 and couldn't find it.   

Check Lawrence - not a typo. ;)

That's why I said I thought you missed a 2nd place vote. I meant to add that I knew you wouldn't make that mistake and I just needed to look harder. I can understand that with their close loss to Wash U someone wants to give them some love but that's a "Whole Lotta Love".  ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 25, 2009, 01:11:17 AM
Quote from: magicman on March 25, 2009, 12:25:36 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 25, 2009, 12:10:39 AM
Quote from: magicman on March 24, 2009, 11:38:42 PM
Good job Mr Y.

I thought you missed a 2nd place vote as I scoured the top 10 and couldn't find it.   

Check Lawrence - not a typo. ;)

That's why I said I thought you missed a 2nd place vote. I meant to add that I knew you wouldn't make that mistake and I just needed to look harder. I can understand that with their close loss to Wash U someone wants to give them some love but that's a "Whole Lotta Love".  ;D

I thought so too, but it's one of our most respected voters.  Last year I questioned him on whether he was putting way too much weight on just tourney results and he sent in a revised ballot.  This year I thought that was the only 'over the top' placement, so I let it go.  We all have out quirks, and in retrospect I have a couple of placements I'm not sure I can defend! ;)

Lawrence was by far the most 'up in the air' team - four voters were reasonably consistent at 11-15, but there was the 2 and there was also the 23 and completely out.  They went one-and-done, but it was to the eventual national champ (by the closest margin of the tourney) and finished the season very strong.  Tough call.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 25, 2009, 01:21:45 AM
Quite appropriately, the 'WIAC triplets' finished bunched together.  Looking only at those three, UWSP was top 3 times, bottom 3 times; UWP was top twice, middle 4 times; UWW was top twice, middle twice, bottom 3 times.  We never could figure out which was best (but knew they were all close)! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 25, 2009, 01:34:04 AM
Quote from: magicman on March 24, 2009, 11:38:42 PM
Good job Mr Y.

I thought you missed a 2nd place vote as I scoured the top 10 and couldn't find it.   
It's my Larry vote at #2.

I tore up my ballot after the tourney and re-assessed everyone at that point, especially when so many teams could not hold home court advantage in the early rounds.  When I looked at my March 1st ballot, I had trouble justifying that ballot in light of the tourney outcomes.  I saw teams whose weaknesses were dramatically revealed.  In my mind, the top 40 teams were interchangeable beyond the midwestern stronghold. I tried to honor the opinions of the midwesterners who had discussed the bracket of death and re-ranked them.  I think that those top 8 are definitely in a separate tier.  How RSNJ would have done in the Bracket of Death is another debate.   ;)

I looked at the regions that I may have overlooked and then re-ranked them.  The Mid-Atlantic region came out stronger on my ballot.  I re-did the northeast, where I may have over-valued those teams, and gotten into a rut. 

I heard and read several accounts that the Larrys gave WashU their toughest game, the Bears winning by 2 on a neutral floor.  Okay, that is fine with me.

Wash U beat UWW on a neutral floor by 3. Give them #3.

I put Wheaton 4th.  Wash U beat Wheaton on their own floor.  How valuable is home court advantage in the playoffs, especially in the Sectionals?  3-5 points? Who knows?  The ASC-Men may never host a sectional under current guidelines and budgetary restraints!  Wheaton #4.

UW-P lost to Wheaton at Wheaton in OT 74-69.  It took Home Court Advantage by Wheaton to beat UWP.  Nevertheless, UWP #5.

I put UW-SP at #6,  even tho' the Pointers lost to the Tommies at St Thomas.  I thought that the Tommies vulnerability was finally uncovered and solved by a veteran Wash U team after WashU had had the chance to dissect what had not worked in previous playoff games, like the UWSP-STU game.

RSNJ #7.  I thought that they had a style of play that would beat several of the midwestern teams.  Also Isham Poe was lost to RSNJ for the last half of the playoffs.  I think that hurt the chemistry and the flow of their game.

Tommies #8.  Were beaten by a quality team when their style was solved.  The WashU STU game reminded me of the McMurry Calvin Elite 8 game at Calvin in 2000.  McMurry All-American Daniel Martinez still holds the record for steals against the Knights, but when "the one who brung ya" cannot take you any farther in the tourney, then you are stuck with "the one who brung ya".  Tommies inflicted (what was it?) 17 turnovers on the Bears, but the Bears solved it and ran away with the victory.  I would assume that in a conference situation, the WashU-STU video tape would have been studied very carefully by subsequent opponents.



Guilford #9.  The best of the rest in a tight bunch of the next 8.  Beat Transy on a neutral floor in OT.  Beat Averett by 10.  "Won the Great Lakes" and edged UT-Dallas in OT.  The Guilford basket that put Guilford and UTD into OT was the type that shows up on the "D3hoops.com Sports Center" nightly video stream 10 years from now.   ;) Was definitely better than F&M.

Elmhurst #10.  Lost to UWW on their home court in the first round.  You must protect home court if you get it in the playoffs.

UT-Dallas #11.  I don't think that the country knows how good and how strong the ASC is.  Out-of-sight/ out-of-mind.  "Stomped" (http://www.trinity.edu/departments/athletics/MBasketball/statistics/ncaa02.htm) Trinity TX by 16 in San Antonio after a defensive adjustment swung a 7-point deficit in the mid first half.  Beat Capital on a hostile neutral floor 1189 miles away.  UTD typifies the athleticism that we see in the ASC.  Some ASC teams are more athletic than UTD, which is where UTD got its defeats in conference. ASC member UMHB beat UWW in Belton.  Concordia Austin (10-16/9-12) beat WPI 86-85 in Austin.  That strength is not reflected in many national impressions of the ASC.

JCU #12.
UPS #13.  Ran into the bracket of death
Capital #14.
Transy #15.
Thomas More #16 Lost at Capital in OT in the first round.  Paying homage to the 3rd best team out of the Great Lakes Region.

F&M #17 -- my second pick from the right side of the bracket.

Augie #18 -- another team from the "bracket of death".  An outlier comparing the rest of the ballots, but I think that the #3 in the CCIW was that good.

SLU #19 -- maybe I have over-ranked them, but we did not seen SLU play a meaningful game out of the East/Mid-Atlantic/Atlantic/Northeast regions, but they made it to the Sweet 16.  I am giving them the #2 slot out of that upper right bracket.

Gwynedd-Mercy #20 --  Another outlier.  I let them ride the RSNJ coattails.  GMC beat Amherst in the first round and then lost at RSNJ by 7 in the second round.

Miss College #21 -- Most athletic team that Miss College had put on the floor.  I thought that they could compete with anyone beyond the top 16-18.  Lost the season series with UTD, 2 games to one.

Salem State #22 -- Lost at F&M in the Sweet 16 by 6.  Won on the road at Widener in the first round.  Loonnnngggggg bus trips for Salem State.

Middlebury #23 -- Dropped them after their loss to Bridgewater State.

DeSales #24 -- Lost to F&M in the Elite 8.  Beat Ithaca at Ithaca and knocked Ithaca out of my ballot.

Trinity TX #25 -- Dropped them after their performance hosting  UTD in the second round.  Trinity does not match well versus athletic teams in the southwest.  They rarely play a "meaningful" game versus good, athletic "in-region" foes in this part of the country.  UTD showed Trinity's vulnerability.

Thanks again to Mr Ypsi for running this poll.  I think that it really provides a good service to the fans and airs many of the thoughts that we have about the official Top 25.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on March 25, 2009, 02:08:41 AM
Thanks for the rundown Ralph. 

I'll out myself, I didn't vote for Lawrence.   I guess I value the whole season a little more vs just the last 3 weeks, which in many cases was just one game.  Lawrence was 19-7, the only team that didn't win 20 games that I considered.  I also didn't have them ranked in my final regular season poll, a loss in round 1 isn't going to move anyone up for me, no matter the opponent.

Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 25, 2009, 01:34:04 AM
Thomas More #16 Lost at Capital in OT in the first round.  Paying homage to the 3rd best team out of the Great Lakes Region.

Big disagreement here, for one Thomas More was never ranked in the NCAA's Great Lakes ranking which ranks 6 teams.  Its doubtfull they were in the invisible ranking either.  The Presidents is considered at best the 4th best league in a 4 league Region.  In fact I can't recall a single win by a team in that league vs the OAC, NCAC or MIAA in the the tournament, their game with Capital may have been the closest result in memory.

Among Thomas More's 7 losses is a 17 point loss to Transylvania, a 23 point loss to Centre at home, a 3 point loss to Baldwin Wallace and 15 point loss to Otterbein both at the Otterbein Classic.  BW finished  9th, Otterbein 10th in the OAC.

The only good win I can find is beating Wilmington who ended up 16-10 and 4th in the OAC.  How Thomas More took Capital to OT I'll never know.
I think 3rd best in the GL Region is a giant stretch here.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on March 25, 2009, 02:13:41 AM
Quote from: sac on March 25, 2009, 02:08:41 AM
The Presidents is considered at best the 4th best league in a 4 league Region.  In fact I can't recall a single win by a team in that league vs the OAC, NCAC or MIAA in the the tournament, their game with Capital may have been the closest result in memory.

Check that, I can't even recall a President's Conference team being in the regional rankings in recent years.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 25, 2009, 02:24:27 AM
Good stuff here, sac!   :)

This is what we need to "air out".

I just finished the Hoopsville podcast and was gratified that Dave McHugh had similar problems with his ballot as well. (One other point on the podcast...thanks to Titan Q for the shoutout!)

I have used the "peloton" analogy this year to describe the season.  I still maintain that there is very little difference between the "second tier" (this year starting about #9) down to #40.  This is where the consensus on the Posters Poll and the Top 25 begin to fall apart.  I think that the increasing number of schools that are video-streaming will allow us to measure better the quality of teams across the country.  The consequence of this will be to burst the reputations of some traditional names.

I will appreciate other fans throwing in their $.02.   ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 25, 2009, 02:26:52 AM
Quote from: sac on March 25, 2009, 02:13:41 AM
Quote from: sac on March 25, 2009, 02:08:41 AM
The Presidents is considered at best the 4th best league in a 4 league Region.  In fact I can't recall a single win by a team in that league vs the OAC, NCAC or MIAA in the the tournament, their game with Capital may have been the closest result in memory.

Check that, I can't even recall a President's Conference team being in the regional rankings in recent years.
Watch out for St Vincent (22-3).  McMurry edged them in Las Vegas this year.  They will shake things up in that region, because I think that their style of play confounds most teams in that region. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on March 25, 2009, 02:28:02 AM
Of interest to Ralph would be UT-Dallas.

I've seen 2 ASC teams, both Miss Coll, in 2005 and 2007, and have been party to many conversations of Calvin's throttling of McMurray at the infamous 2000 sectional in Grand Rapids.  In both cases I saw Miss. Coll. they were underwhelming in the Great Lakes hosted sectionals at Albion and Wittenberg.  In both cases I thought they were clearly the 4th best teams at those locations.

This year I never felt the Great Lakes was as strong as those years certainly no stand out teams like 2000 (Calvin) 2005 (Albion and Calvin) or 2007 (Witt and Hope), and in fact I wrote Ralph just a couple days before the tournament I thought UT-Dallas could beat Capital which underwhelmed me last year defensively (basicaly the same team returned this year).  But might have some trouble with John Carroll.  Which is kind of interesting that it was the team that beat JCU, Guilford, that eliminated UT-D.

This is probably the first time that an ASC team has made the Q-finals when paired with Great Lakes teams, maybe I'm forgetting someone but I can't think of one.  The GL is usually but not always the 3rd best Region of the 8 in my opinion.  Getting to the elite 8 in that pairing environment, and the season warrants a top 10 to me.

I gave UT-D the #9 spot, just ahead of John Carroll.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on March 25, 2009, 02:37:59 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 25, 2009, 02:26:52 AM
Quote from: sac on March 25, 2009, 02:13:41 AM
Quote from: sac on March 25, 2009, 02:08:41 AM
The Presidents is considered at best the 4th best league in a 4 league Region.  In fact I can't recall a single win by a team in that league vs the OAC, NCAC or MIAA in the the tournament, their game with Capital may have been the closest result in memory.

Check that, I can't even recall a President's Conference team being in the regional rankings in recent years.
Watch out for St Vincent (22-3).  McMurry edged them in Las Vegas this year.  They will shake things up in that region, because I think that their style of play confounds most teams in that region. 

I've had my eye on St. Vincent the last two seasons, they seem to be a strong program.  They would have won the Presidents this year if they were eligible with a 13-1 record I believe.  They beat everyone by double-digits twice except Washington and Jefferson, who seemed to have their number.  Beating them once, and losing by only 2 the second time.  I will point out St. V's played a pretty weak non-conference schedule.........outside of McMurry of course. ;)

They have a little video on their website
http://www.stvincent.edu/basketball

However they graduate 4 starters who all averaged double figures.  I don't know the exact D3 provisional process but these might be the final leftovers from their NAIA scholarship days.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 25, 2009, 02:59:08 AM
My take on the ASC and the Great Lakes is that the ASC has three styles of play among the 15 members.

Up-tempo guard-prominent offense -- lots of quickness.  Strengths -- aggressive trapping and outside shooting.  Can wear a slower team down.  Post players usually have trouble with the number of trips up the floor.  Weakness -- midwestern-style, half-court walk-the-ball up the court style,  dominant post play.

ASC teams playing this style -- UOzarks, LaCollege, LeTU, ETBU, UT-Tyler, Schreiner, Concordia, Sul Ross and HSU.  (I don't mean this in a pejorative way, but the players who went to Univ of New England did not go to an ASC school, but the style of play was similar and it had caused a disruption in the usual order of New England/CCC hoops.)  Mississippi College has gradually moved to this style away from the slow-it-down strong 3/4 court pressure, keep the game score in the 60's style in early decade that always lost to a Great Lakes Midwest teams.

Half-court post-style offense.  Strengths -- has big men, a rare commodity in this part of the country.  Matches well against traditional powers which is how UMHB has wins over VWC and UWW in the last few years and UTD against Trinity and Capital.  Weakness -- quick guards, altho' UMHB has been able to get some excellent guards.  UMHB is the best example of this style of play.  UTD plays this to some degree, altho' they had a great trio of guards this year in Wright, Greene and Lowery.  TLU is another school that may be best described by this style of play.

Hybrid -- faster tempo strong post style.  McMurry and HPU.  Post men are hard to get and good posts are extremely hard to find.  McM had a good one in 2008, but the 2009 posts did not quite reach that level from 2007 & 2008.

Sul Ross had some good big men in the 2004 season that beat Trinity Tx and lost to Larry in OT out at Puget Sound in the sectional semis. (Larry lost to UWSP in OT the next night.)  SRSU played that same uptempo style with some good posts to rotate.

There is lots of athleticism in this conference.  I hope that video-streaming will reveal that next season.  I think that the conference does not get its Massey credit because of scheduling demands, but that the top 6-8 teams of the 15 are between #20-#100 of the 400 in D3.  The bottom 7-9 teams really hurt the OWP/OOWP and Massey numbers.  Taking the top 4 from each division into the tourney just makes the ASC conference final a virtual first round NCAA playoff game.  >:(


There have been recent coaching changes at HPU (in 2008-09) and TLU (2007-08) so I may not have a good handle on where those coaches are going, given current rosters and recruits.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 25, 2009, 03:03:32 AM
 ;)

Cal Baptist (Golden State AC NAIA -1) beat St Vincent 89-85 in 2OT in Las Vegas.

http://naia.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/020609aai.html
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 25, 2009, 10:27:03 AM

Thomas More is the only one I'd have to strongly disagree with.  They just didn't put together a decent body of work this year.  Lawrence at #2 is too high for my liking, but not entirely indefensible given the end of the season.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 25, 2009, 10:29:20 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 25, 2009, 10:27:03 AM

Thomas More is the only one I'd have to strongly disagree with.  They just didn't put together a decent body of work this year.  Lawrence at #2 is too high for my liking, but not entirely indefensible given the end of the season.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 25, 2009, 04:38:11 PM
Good comments about your picks, guys. It's always instructive to read the reasoning behind people's picks.

Thanks again, Chuck, for running the PP this season.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: usee on March 25, 2009, 05:09:38 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 25, 2009, 04:38:11 PM
Good comments about your picks, guys. It's always instructive to read the reasoning behind people's picks.

Thanks again, Chuck, for running the PP this season.

agreed Greg. Reading this thread (and participating in the voting) made me realize how much more I have to learn and how hard it is to evaluate these teams/players. I was generally middle of the road on my picks, if anything I was too hard on my own region for fear of a bias.

Thanks Chuck for your work.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 25, 2009, 06:31:08 PM
Quote from: USee on March 25, 2009, 05:09:38 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 25, 2009, 04:38:11 PM
Good comments about your picks, guys. It's always instructive to read the reasoning behind people's picks.

Thanks again, Chuck, for running the PP this season.

agreed Greg. Reading this thread (and participating in the voting) made me realize how much more I have to learn and how hard it is to evaluate these teams/players. I was generally middle of the road on my picks, if anything I was too hard on my own region for fear of a bias.

Thanks Chuck for your work.

That's been a surprise to me over the years - I think several of us are 'anti-homers'!  I've kidded Ralph about his tendency to have Texas teams lower than anyone else (see Trinity on this final poll!), though all 10 of Thomas More's points are courtesy of Ralph (not Texas, but South Region).  I've noticed that I frequently have CCIW teams at or near the bottom of the voting range.

So while I'm still hoping for more geographic diversity, the problem is not regional bias.  But the one area I DO see a regional bias is actually a plus: down at the bottom of the ballots there is a strong tendency for voters to list (sometimes uniquely) teams from their home regions who might not be on the national radar.  And since when a team plays itself out of the top 25, they have to be replaced by somebody, these provide a good 'watch list' for other voters.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on March 25, 2009, 07:02:49 PM
If anything, I went out of my way to slip an Eastern team or two in my top 25


I think if I have a bias, its in the much broader definition of Midwest over other parts of the country......ie Great Lakes/Midwest/West Regions combined over others.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 25, 2009, 07:15:57 PM
My final ballot (with comments), for your edification, amusement, and/or scorn! :D

1.  Wash U - duh!
2.  St. Thomas
3.  Wheaton - I'm fairly sure Wheaton would win a matchup, but decided to defer to a season undefeated until meeting the national champ
4.  UWSP
5.  UWP
6.  UWW - I still have no idea what the order of the WIAC teams should be, but I know they belong together!
7.  UPS - perhaps a spot or two too high (always tough to assess the Left Coast teams)
8.  Guilford
9.  R. Stockton - finishing 2nd or 3rd was a matter of scheduling, not competition; I was more impressed with who Guilford had to beat to get there
10. TX Dallas - we all had them just about the same
11. Lawrence - they finished the season very strong (though not #2 strong! ;))
12. Elmhurst - again, we all pretty much agreed
13. F&M - undecided whether this is too high, but they did make the FF
14. UMD - one voter had them even one slot higher, but most of you obviously did not buy into their 25-3 record (I didn't particularly either, but they did finish 27-4)
15. Middlebury - a total flame-out in the tourney, but for the whole year ...
16. JCU - I just wasn't impressed with the OAC this year (though they are never bad)
17. Capital - see JCU
18. Trinity TX - see Middlebury
19. Ithaca - ditto ;)
20. Buena V - not given the opportunity to prove themselves OR flame-out!
21. Farmingdale St - surprised I was nearly a lone wolf on this one - they DID make the Elite 8
22. Centre - see Middlebury (again ;))
23. Augie - see BV
24. Gwynned-M - beat Amherst (as did many!), played R. Stockton very close
25. DeSales - perhaps too low; they beat Ithaca and UMD to reach the Elite 8
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on March 26, 2009, 05:05:01 AM
Here's mine. I did mine early Sunday morning and when the real poll came out later on I was surprised to see that I had the same top 15 except for a placement here or there. As Ralph and sac have stated after the 1st tier of teams it's hard to separate the rest of the pack.

1.   Wash U.
2.   Wheaton
3.   UW-Platteville
4.   UW-Whitewater
5.   St. Thomas
6.   UW-Stevens Pt.
7.   Richard Stockton
8.   Guilford
9.   Texas-Dallas
10. Puget Sound
11. John Carroll
12. Capital
13. Elmhurst
14. Franklin+Marshall
15. Desales
16. Ithaca
17. Trinity Texas
18. Carnegie Mellon
19. Buena Vista
20. Wooster
21. St. Lawrence
22. Centre
23. Lawrence
24. Transylvania
25. Whitworth
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 26, 2009, 11:06:45 AM
1.   WashU
2.   Wheaton
3.   St. Thomas - beating Point keeps them up here
4.   Stevens Point
5.   Platteville
6.   Whitewater
7.   Richard Stockton - sticking with WashU earned them a jump from #9
8.   Elmhurst - I've had them here for a while
9.   Puget Sound - NWC not as strong as I had supposed
10. Guilford - I thought the ODAC was underrated all year; they proved it
11. Texas-Dallas - Big wins on the road
12. John Carroll
13. Lawrence - Great team, put it all together at the end
14. Capital
15. Trinity (TX) - losing at home hurt them; struggled down the stretch
16. Transylvania - Liked them all year; proved something against Guilford
17. Augustana - CCIW was stacked
18. Buena Vista - Here on reputation, probably should have given DeSales the spot
19. Wooster - Poor man's Lawrence with a big name
20. Franklin & Marshall - Did well in the tournament against poor competition
21. Ithaca - Region not as good as I suspected
22. St. Lawrence - Earned the spot with tourney wins
23. Middlebury - Maybe this should have been the #2 ODAC school?
24. Brandeis - Not as good as their schedule, but the schedule was really good.
25. Mass-Dartmouth - Never liked them, but they won their games.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 26, 2009, 11:12:15 AM
I appreciate the comments by my fellow voters! Thanks.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: usee on March 26, 2009, 11:55:23 AM
Ok, peer pressure got to me. Here's my final poll, which I did before seeing the final D3Top 25

1. WashU
2. Wheaton
3. UWPlatteville
4. St Thomas-they got hammered in the 2nd half vs Wash U but beat UWSP
5. Richard Stocton-Final 4 was enough for me.
6. UWWhitewater-they and UWSP are interchangeable here
7. UWStevens Pt
8. Guilford
9. UPS
10. John Carroll-maybe a bit too high because of inconsistency but OAC top teams are tough
11. Franklin Marshall-Their final 4 run made me put them higher than I would have liked
12. Capital-see JCU
13. UT Dallas
14. Elmhurst-They should have won on their own floor in round 1 despite the tough draw.
15. Lawrence-#2 no way but their late season push showed their improvement.
16. Middlebury
17. Trinity-I would have liked to see them outside of the texas sub bracket
18. Ithaca-about what I thought
19. DeSales-Kent Raymond jr carried them
20. Centre-I probably had them too high.
21. Elms-I don't think a bad shooting night in the tourney knocks them completely out
22. UMass D
23. Buena Vista-would have liked to see what they could have done.
24. Trannsylvania
25. Whitworth

I didn't vote for Augie. Although I believe they are as good or better than 2/3rd of the poll I am a believer that you have to do what it takes to get into the tourney. 1 more win at a key time by a sr laden team and they would have been dancing.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 27, 2009, 01:42:49 AM
There are a number of votes that interest me; for the moment I'll focus on one.  The voter for Wooster as 19 (Hoops Fan) and one of the two voters for 20th (magicman) have identified themselves.  Personally I had them (at best) 35-45 (and I'm kinda fond of Woo :D).  I'm wondering if anyone could convince me on those votes?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: ScotsFan on March 27, 2009, 10:28:29 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 27, 2009, 01:42:49 AM
There are a number of votes that interest me; for the moment I'll focus on one.  The voter for Wooster as 19 (Hoops Fan) and one of the two voters for 20th (magicman) have identified themselves. Personally I had them (at best) 35-45 (and I'm kinda fond of Woo :D).  I'm wondering if anyone could convince me on those votes?
As not being a participant in the posters' poll, I wasn't going to say anything, but seeing as how the topic of Wooster came up, I thought I would chime in.  Hope you don't mind an outsider's opinion...  :)

I've always felt all year that Wooster was a bit overlooked in the polls.  They had their struggles at the beginning of the season, but they were also very young and it took them some time to come together as a team.  And by the end of the season, they were playing some pretty darn good basketball.  Good enough to take a Capital team that had been ranked in the top 10 all season to the brink on their home floor. 

Also, lets not forget that they beat Gettysburg pretty convincingly in the 1st round of the tournament.  The same Gettysburg that beat Final 4 participant F&M not once, not twice, but THREE times during the season!  If that doesn't scream that F&M had an easy road to the Final Four (relatively speaking), I don't know what does.  Put Wooster in F&M's bracket and maybe the Scots would have found their way to Salem.  Who knows?

As far as where I would rank Wooster, it's a tough call.  Personally, I think they were a legit top 25 team even though most of the pollsters didn't think so.  I always thought 20-25 is where I would have slotted them in.  I definitely think 35-45 is way too low IMHO.  No offense Mr. Y!  ;)  That's just my Black and Old Gold colored shades opinion!  8)

Looking ahead to next year, where do you all see yourselves slotting Wooster in the polls?  With losing only one senior on the roster and gaining arguably their best player coming back from a medical redshirt, should they be considered a legitimate top 10 team?  I kind of think top 10 may be a bit too high, but 10-20 range shouldn't be out of the question by any means.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 27, 2009, 11:27:49 AM
Quote from: ScotsFan on March 27, 2009, 10:28:29 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 27, 2009, 01:42:49 AM
There are a number of votes that interest me; for the moment I'll focus on one.  The voter for Wooster as 19 (Hoops Fan) and one of the two voters for 20th (magicman) have identified themselves. Personally I had them (at best) 35-45 (and I'm kinda fond of Woo :D).  I'm wondering if anyone could convince me on those votes?
As not being a participant in the posters' poll, I wasn't going to say anything, but seeing as how the topic of Wooster came up, I thought I would chime in.  Hope you don't mind an outsider's opinion...  :)

I've always felt all year that Wooster was a bit overlooked in the polls.  They had their struggles at the beginning of the season, but they were also very young and it took them some time to come together as a team.  And by the end of the season, they were playing some pretty darn good basketball.  Good enough to take a Capital team that had been ranked in the top 10 all season to the brink on their home floor. 

Also, lets not forget that they beat Gettysburg pretty convincingly in the 1st round of the tournament.  The same Gettysburg that beat Final 4 participant F&M not once, not twice, but THREE times during the season!  If that doesn't scream that F&M had an easy road to the Final Four (relatively speaking), I don't know what does.  Put Wooster in F&M's bracket and maybe the Scots would have found their way to Salem.  Who knows?

As far as where I would rank Wooster, it's a tough call.  Personally, I think they were a legit top 25 team even though most of the pollsters didn't think so.  I always thought 20-25 is where I would have slotted them in.  I definitely think 35-45 is way too low IMHO.  No offense Mr. Y!  ;)  That's just my Black and Old Gold colored shades opinion!  8)

Looking ahead to next year, where do you all see yourselves slotting Wooster in the polls?  With losing only one senior on the roster and gaining arguably their best player coming back from a medical redshirt, should they be considered a legitimate top 10 team?  I kind of think top 10 may be a bit too high, but 10-20 range shouldn't be out of the question by any means.

Thanks for the input.  You have convinced me that 35-45 is too low; I remain unconvinced on 19th or 20th.

As to your last paragraph, that's why the PP doesn't begin until January! :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 27, 2009, 05:26:29 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 27, 2009, 01:42:49 AM
There are a number of votes that interest me; for the moment I'll focus on one.  The voter for Wooster as 19 (Hoops Fan) and one of the two voters for 20th (magicman) have identified themselves.  Personally I had them (at best) 35-45 (and I'm kinda fond of Woo.  I'm wondering if anyone could convince me on those votes?

What Scotsfan said.  Wooster really struggled at the beginning of the year, but they finished strongly.

I had Gettysburg in the 20-30 range most of the season, despite their often confusing losses.  Plus the performance against Capital and maybe a little does of name recognition.

You'll also notice that despite me putting Woo up at #19, they are ahead of only teams that competed on the right side of the tournament bracket.  In my mind Wooster was the last team on the left side worthy of ranking and they seemed to fall ahead of those final five teams.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 09, 2009, 08:33:25 PM
Time to bring this back from page 2! ;)

The Posters' Poll for this season will commence after games of January 9th.  As always, polls are based on games thru Sunday, with ballots expected by Tuesday evening.  PM your 1-25 ballot to 'Mr. Ypsi'.  

I hope there will be plenty of voters to keep me hoppin'!  And it is not too soon to start paying attention to the national scene if you are interested in joining us.

[Reminder: this is in no way intended as competition for the official d3hoops.com poll.  I won't ever post results before Pat's poll comes out by way of respect, and would appreciate if ballots were submitted before a voter has seen the 'real' poll.  Much of the enjoyment, as well as edification, is in seeing how we differ and trying to figure out why we think team X is over- or under-rated!]
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 09, 2009, 08:41:45 PM
I'm in.

Thanks, Mr Ypsi, for running this again this season.

+1!

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 09, 2009, 10:53:35 PM

You can always count on me... to skew the numbers.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 09, 2009, 10:56:40 PM
Ditto ... except for the numbers-skewing part. ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on December 10, 2009, 02:33:45 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 09, 2009, 08:33:25 PM
Time to bring this back from page 2! ;)

The Posters' Poll for this season will commence after games of January 9th.  As always, polls are based on games thru Sunday, with ballots expected by Tuesday evening.  PM your 1-25 ballot to 'Mr. Ypsi'. 

I hope there will be plenty of voters to keep me hoppin'!  And it is not too soon to start paying attention to the national scene if you are interested in joining us.

[Reminder: this is in no way intended as competition for the official d3hoops.com poll.  I won't ever post results before Pat's poll comes out by way of respect, and would appreciate if ballots were submitted before a voter has seen the 'real' poll.  Much of the enjoyment, as well as edification, is in seeing how we differ and trying to figure out why we think team X is over- or under-rated!]


I'll do it again. Always fun and you do a great job running it Chuck.

Won't the poll commence after games of Jan. 10th? That's a Sunday. ???

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on December 10, 2009, 08:51:56 AM
Quote from: magicman on December 10, 2009, 02:33:45 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 09, 2009, 08:33:25 PM
Time to bring this back from page 2! ;)

The Posters' Poll for this season will commence after games of January 9th.  As always, polls are based on games thru Sunday, with ballots expected by Tuesday evening.  PM your 1-25 ballot to 'Mr. Ypsi'. 

I hope there will be plenty of voters to keep me hoppin'!  And it is not too soon to start paying attention to the national scene if you are interested in joining us.

[Reminder: this is in no way intended as competition for the official d3hoops.com poll.  I won't ever post results before Pat's poll comes out by way of respect, and would appreciate if ballots were submitted before a voter has seen the 'real' poll.  Much of the enjoyment, as well as edification, is in seeing how we differ and trying to figure out why we think team X is over- or under-rated!]


I'll do it again. Always fun and you do a great job running it Chuck.

Won't the poll commence after games of Jan. 10th? That's a Sunday. ???

That's still after the 9th.  ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 10, 2009, 12:36:51 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on December 10, 2009, 08:51:56 AM
Quote from: magicman on December 10, 2009, 02:33:45 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 09, 2009, 08:33:25 PM
Time to bring this back from page 2! ;)

The Posters' Poll for this season will commence after games of January 9th.  As always, polls are based on games thru Sunday, with ballots expected by Tuesday evening.  PM your 1-25 ballot to 'Mr. Ypsi'. 

I hope there will be plenty of voters to keep me hoppin'!  And it is not too soon to start paying attention to the national scene if you are interested in joining us.

[Reminder: this is in no way intended as competition for the official d3hoops.com poll.  I won't ever post results before Pat's poll comes out by way of respect, and would appreciate if ballots were submitted before a voter has seen the 'real' poll.  Much of the enjoyment, as well as edification, is in seeing how we differ and trying to figure out why we think team X is over- or under-rated!]


I'll do it again. Always fun and you do a great job running it Chuck.

Won't the poll commence after games of Jan. 10th? That's a Sunday. ???

That's still after the 9th.  ;)

Nice catch, magicman - you'd think after 61 years I'd be able to remember that the S at the end of the week is Saturday, not Sunday! :P

The poll will commence with games thru 1-10.

Thanks, knightslappy - I guess I was technically not incorrect! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 10, 2009, 03:01:57 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 10, 2009, 12:36:51 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on December 10, 2009, 08:51:56 AM
Quote from: magicman on December 10, 2009, 02:33:45 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 09, 2009, 08:33:25 PM
Time to bring this back from page 2! ;)

The Posters' Poll for this season will commence after games of January 9th.  As always, polls are based on games thru Sunday, with ballots expected by Tuesday evening.  PM your 1-25 ballot to 'Mr. Ypsi'. 

I hope there will be plenty of voters to keep me hoppin'!  And it is not too soon to start paying attention to the national scene if you are interested in joining us.

[Reminder: this is in no way intended as competition for the official d3hoops.com poll.  I won't ever post results before Pat's poll comes out by way of respect, and would appreciate if ballots were submitted before a voter has seen the 'real' poll.  Much of the enjoyment, as well as edification, is in seeing how we differ and trying to figure out why we think team X is over- or under-rated!]


I'll do it again. Always fun and you do a great job running it Chuck.

Won't the poll commence after games of Jan. 10th? That's a Sunday. ???

That's still after the 9th.  ;)

Nice catch, magicman - you'd think after 61 years I'd be able to remember that the S at the end of the week is Saturday, not Sunday! :P

The poll will commence with games thru 1-10.

Thanks, knightslappy - I guess I was technically not incorrect! ;D

I don't think that it effects his sensitivity but it probably effects the specificity and maybe the mode and standard deviation.  ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on December 10, 2009, 10:12:27 PM
Yo. In. Of course.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 11, 2009, 12:18:29 AM
Quote from: smedindy on December 10, 2009, 10:12:27 PM
Yo. In. Of course.

Nice use of spanglish.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 05, 2010, 04:14:12 AM
Just wanted to get this board near the top of the page as the 1st poll is due after next Sunday. How many pollsters do we have so far Mr. Y?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 05, 2010, 10:33:54 AM
Quote from: magicman on January 05, 2010, 04:14:12 AM
Just wanted to get this board near the top of the page as the 1st poll is due after next Sunday. How many pollsters do we have so far Mr. Y?

I haven't heard anything that you haven't read here.  I'll send out 'recruiting' PMs this week to all those who ever have participated who haven't already announced their intentions on this board.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pbrooks3 on January 05, 2010, 01:18:57 PM
I'll be working on my poll this weekend representing the South and the SCAC in particular.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: frodotwo on January 05, 2010, 05:38:42 PM
Having recently retired I find myself with plenty of time to participate in this endeavor. Unless of course the weather up here in central Wisconsin freezes my keyboard and email.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pbrooks3 on January 05, 2010, 05:51:34 PM
Quote from: frodotwo on January 05, 2010, 05:38:42 PM
Having recently retired I find myself with plenty of time to participate in this endeavor. Unless of course the weather up here in central Wisconsin freezes my keyboard and email.
It ain't no picnic in the south today either!  Looking for a warm basketball venue right now.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: ScotsFan on January 05, 2010, 07:23:32 PM
Quote from: pbrooks3 on January 05, 2010, 05:51:34 PM
Quote from: frodotwo on January 05, 2010, 05:38:42 PM
Having recently retired I find myself with plenty of time to participate in this endeavor. Unless of course the weather up here in central Wisconsin freezes my keyboard and email.
It ain't no picnic in the south today either!  Looking for a warm basketball venue right now.

You southerners don't know what cold  is.   :P   ;)   ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: frodotwo on January 05, 2010, 08:03:35 PM
Quote from: ScotsFan on January 05, 2010, 07:23:32 PM
Quote from: pbrooks3 on January 05, 2010, 05:51:34 PM
Quote from: frodotwo on January 05, 2010, 05:38:42 PM
Having recently retired I find myself with plenty of time to participate in this endeavor. Unless of course the weather up here in central Wisconsin freezes my keyboard and email.
It ain't no picnic in the south today either!  Looking for a warm basketball venue right now.

You southerners don't know what cold  is.   :P   ;)   ;D
[/quote


Here's the weather in central WI for all the early risers tomorrow morning:
4 AM   -   -12°      NW 5mph      P Cloudy
5 AM   -   -12°     NW 5mph      P Cloudy

and it's not even cold yet  8-)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 05, 2010, 08:07:19 PM
I was on the gulf coast in Alabama last November, it was about 58 degrees at 8 am and I was dressed in shorts and long sleeve t-shirt..........the local woman next to me got out of her car with a winter parka, gloves and wool hat on. 

I went swimming in the gulf later that day.........which only proves cold is relative, and so is sanity. :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 05, 2010, 09:36:41 PM
Quote from: sac on January 05, 2010, 08:07:19 PM
I was on the gulf coast in Alabama last November, it was about 58 degrees at 8 am and I was dressed in shorts and long sleeve t-shirt..........the local woman next to me got out of her car with a winter parka, gloves and wool hat on. 

I went swimming in the gulf later that day.........which only proves cold is relative, and so is sanity. :)

I'm a Michigander, and even I was amazed when on about a 55-degree day in September I saw several people swimming in the northernmost tip of Lake Michigan (PEAK temperature is about 65 degrees - I doubt it was peak temperature :P).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 05, 2010, 09:51:53 PM
I know for a fact that people were swimming in Stevens Point and Chicago... but I'm not sure if it will continue.  I heard somewhere that Polar Bears are going extinct...
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 06, 2010, 10:36:24 PM

I'll be out before sunup tomorrow for work.  I'll be hanging out outside; it's supposed be 9 overnight with the temperature dropping throughout the day to a crisp 0 by the afternoon, 40 mph wind.

My fingers will be cold and the wind will make my face burn, but it won't really be too bad.  I'm more concerned about road conditions since they don't know how to move snow here.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 06, 2010, 11:44:19 PM
Hoops Fan, you've made me cold just thinking about that - and I'm a Michigander!

Based on posts here and PMs, it is looking like the PP will be 9-11 voters.  I've gotten 9 definite commitments, and two more who will vote as often as they can.  I'd love to get it up to a consistent 12-13, so if you know of any other posters whose arms might be subject to twisting, twist away! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 08, 2010, 02:42:10 PM

I started going through teams last night.  I've got a solid 50 from which I'll choose a Top 25 and an additional 40 on my watch list in case they heat up.

I do a lot of research the first week, then adjust based on results from there.  I do all the research over again before the final poll after the tournament.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 09, 2010, 12:01:57 AM

Update.  It's negative ten degrees outside right now, so I had some free time.  I did my rankings as of today.  Lots of big games tomorrow, so things might shift.  I ended up ranking 57 schools with an additional 20 who may be worth watching, but haven't done enough to get into my ranking or be left out of it.

I was surprised at how few schools have distinguished themselves thus far.  I had four teams clearly at the top then three or four more in a tier behind, but then there were ten or fifteen squads with decent, but not stellar early season results.

I think there will be a lot of movement once conference play gets into full swing.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pbrooks3 on January 09, 2010, 08:28:54 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 06, 2010, 11:44:19 PM
Hoops Fan, you've made me cold just thinking about that - and I'm a Michigander!

Based on posts here and PMs, it is looking like the PP will be 9-11 voters.  I've gotten 9 definite commitments, and two more who will vote as often as they can.  I'd love to get it up to a consistent 12-13, so if you know of any other posters whose arms might be subject to twisting, twist away! ;D
Put a plug in for the Poster's Poll on the SCAC board - maybe someone new will jump in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 09, 2010, 09:38:14 PM

Short of Whitewater losing tonight, I think I'm set.  I haven't looked at the official Top 25 at all, so who knows how badly I'll screw up the curve.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 09, 2010, 09:39:21 PM
When's your deadline, Chuck?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 09, 2010, 09:54:19 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 09, 2010, 09:39:21 PM
When's your deadline, Chuck?

I like to get the poll up by Tuesday evening.  Call it a 6pm (EST) deadline.  Earlier is appreciated.

Generally there are very few relevant games on Sunday, so poll voters should be able to get a tentative ballot together even on Saturday.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 10, 2010, 03:10:38 PM

I'll wait for the Middlebury game today, but I'm pretty sure my ballot is set.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 10, 2010, 05:53:04 PM

Mine's in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 10, 2010, 07:19:19 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 10, 2010, 05:53:04 PM

Mine's in.
Mine, too.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 10, 2010, 07:32:12 PM
We're off to a fast start - four ballots already in and tabulated.

So far all have the same top four (though in different order); #5 is a very tight race among three teams.  14 teams have been nominated for the top 10.

34 different teams already named (after 3 ballots; Ralph added no new names).  Some I suspect are destined to be outliers (1 voter only, including my #25), but my 26th and 27th teams are getting VERY strong support from others - I'd reconsider, but that is a job for NEXT week! :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 10, 2010, 08:09:54 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 10, 2010, 07:19:19 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 10, 2010, 05:53:04 PM

Mine's in.
Mine, too.

As is mine.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 10, 2010, 10:05:51 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 10, 2010, 07:32:12 PMSome I suspect are destined to be outliers

I'm going to take responsibility for at least one of those, although in looking at my ballot, I hope it's no more than one.  I think I did a pretty good job this year.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 10, 2010, 10:26:13 PM
I limped in...
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 10, 2010, 10:32:11 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 10, 2010, 10:05:51 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 10, 2010, 07:32:12 PMSome I suspect are destined to be outliers

I'm going to take responsibility for at least one of those, although in looking at my ballot, I hope it's no more than one.  I think I did a pretty good job this year.

Your 23, 24, and 25 are looking pretty lonely still, after six ballots. ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 11, 2010, 11:31:22 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 10, 2010, 10:32:11 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 10, 2010, 10:05:51 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 10, 2010, 07:32:12 PMSome I suspect are destined to be outliers

I'm going to take responsibility for at least one of those, although in looking at my ballot, I hope it's no more than one.  I think I did a pretty good job this year.

Your 23, 24, and 25 are looking pretty lonely still, after six ballots. ;)

Looks like Hoops Fan remains the secret identity of that Posters' Poll superhero, Captain Outlier. ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 11, 2010, 07:10:08 PM
We got off to a wonderful start - 7 ballots on Sunday!  Only up to 8 by now.  I said Tuesday at 6 (EST) was the deadline, so I'll stick with that, but I'm getting SO antsy to share what I've got! :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 11, 2010, 09:00:12 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 11, 2010, 11:31:22 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 10, 2010, 10:32:11 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 10, 2010, 10:05:51 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 10, 2010, 07:32:12 PMSome I suspect are destined to be outliers

I'm going to take responsibility for at least one of those, although in looking at my ballot, I hope it's no more than one.  I think I did a pretty good job this year.

Your 23, 24, and 25 are looking pretty lonely still, after six ballots. ;)

Looks like Hoops Fan remains the secret identity of that Posters' Poll superhero, Captain Outlier.

Those were rough picks.  I actually had them at 27, 28, and 29, but a bunch of teams just above them had poor showings over the weekend.

I don't think they have to be on there, but I couldn't make a good case for anyone else to be ahead of them.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 11, 2010, 09:14:00 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 11, 2010, 09:00:12 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 11, 2010, 11:31:22 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 10, 2010, 10:32:11 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 10, 2010, 10:05:51 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 10, 2010, 07:32:12 PMSome I suspect are destined to be outliers

I'm going to take responsibility for at least one of those, although in looking at my ballot, I hope it's no more than one.  I think I did a pretty good job this year.

Your 23, 24, and 25 are looking pretty lonely still, after six ballots. ;)

Looks like Hoops Fan remains the secret identity of that Posters' Poll superhero, Captain Outlier.

Those were rough picks.  I actually had them at 27, 28, and 29, but a bunch of teams just above them had poor showings over the weekend.

I don't think they have to be on there, but I couldn't make a good case for anyone else to be ahead of them.

There's no saying that they are wrong, but after 8 ballots they are still lonely! :D

Even my 'lonely' #25 picked up a #24 from another voter.

There is a voter with a totally lonely #23 and #24 (though his #25 looks to be in the teens overall); you and he have the only 'orphans' so far. 

On the other hand, you didn't have an 'orphan' at #8! ;D

Overall, I'd say you are all within the mainstream - and if there were NO outliers, where would new votes come from when someone lays an egg?! ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hugenerd on January 11, 2010, 09:18:04 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 11, 2010, 09:14:00 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 11, 2010, 09:00:12 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 11, 2010, 11:31:22 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 10, 2010, 10:32:11 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 10, 2010, 10:05:51 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 10, 2010, 07:32:12 PMSome I suspect are destined to be outliers

I'm going to take responsibility for at least one of those, although in looking at my ballot, I hope it's no more than one.  I think I did a pretty good job this year.

Your 23, 24, and 25 are looking pretty lonely still, after six ballots. ;)

Looks like Hoops Fan remains the secret identity of that Posters' Poll superhero, Captain Outlier.

Those were rough picks.  I actually had them at 27, 28, and 29, but a bunch of teams just above them had poor showings over the weekend.

I don't think they have to be on there, but I couldn't make a good case for anyone else to be ahead of them.

There's no saying that they are wrong, but after 8 ballots they are still lonely! :D

Even my 'lonely' #25 picked up a #24 from another voter.

There is a voter with a totally lonely #23 and #24 (though his #25 looks to be in the teens overall); you and he have the only 'orphans' so far.  

On the other hand, you didn't have an 'orphan' at #8! ;D

Overall, I'd say you are all within the mainstream - and if there were NO outliers, where would new votes come from when someone lays an egg?! ;)

The other voter you are talking about is definitely is me.  I was not impressed by my #25 but voted them there to avoid further scrutiny, 2 losses to non-Top 25 caliber teams and no other really big wins to note was not too impressive in my analysis.  Their Massey is also really low, in the 70s if I remember correctly.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 11, 2010, 09:22:06 PM

I've got Linfield sitting at #26; I'm sure that wouldn't have made things any better.

What kills me is that I'm the last person to include a team simply on name recognition and all three of those final teams are in that category (although not for that reason).

I really would have liked to replace them with a couple less known teams, but I'm not confident in the others just yet.  I need more games.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hugenerd on January 11, 2010, 09:24:29 PM
Ypsi,

Since the ballots are due Tuesday, should we adjust ballots to take into account Babson's win over Amherst?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 11, 2010, 09:35:52 PM
Quote from: hugenerd on January 11, 2010, 09:18:04 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 11, 2010, 09:14:00 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 11, 2010, 09:00:12 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 11, 2010, 11:31:22 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 10, 2010, 10:32:11 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 10, 2010, 10:05:51 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 10, 2010, 07:32:12 PMSome I suspect are destined to be outliers

I'm going to take responsibility for at least one of those, although in looking at my ballot, I hope it's no more than one.  I think I did a pretty good job this year.

Your 23, 24, and 25 are looking pretty lonely still, after six ballots. ;)

Looks like Hoops Fan remains the secret identity of that Posters' Poll superhero, Captain Outlier.

Those were rough picks.  I actually had them at 27, 28, and 29, but a bunch of teams just above them had poor showings over the weekend.

I don't think they have to be on there, but I couldn't make a good case for anyone else to be ahead of them.

There's no saying that they are wrong, but after 8 ballots they are still lonely! :D

Even my 'lonely' #25 picked up a #24 from another voter.

There is a voter with a totally lonely #23 and #24 (though his #25 looks to be in the teens overall); you and he have the only 'orphans' so far.  

On the other hand, you didn't have an 'orphan' at #8! ;D

Overall, I'd say you are all within the mainstream - and if there were NO outliers, where would new votes come from when someone lays an egg?! ;)

The other voter you are talking about is definitely is me.  I was not impressed by my #25 but voted them there to avoid further scrutiny, 2 losses to non-Top 25 caliber teams and no other really big wins to note was not too impressive in my analysis.  Their Massey is also really low, in the 70s if I remember correctly.

You, sir, are a very perceptive voter!  Your #25 is being voted in the teens by 5 voters, #20 by one, and omitted entirely by (you guessed it) Hoops Fan!

While your 23 and 24 are barely on my radar, I'm not about to argue them as implausible.  (Same goes for HF's 23, 24, and 25.)  While the rules allow me to discount ballots, I don't go much beyond Caltech in the top 25, or 6 SLIAC teams in the top ten. :D  [This is NOT meant as a dare for voters to go silly on me! ;)]

hugenerd: just saw your post before hitting 'post' - NO, games by 1-10 only.  We'll probably ALL punish Amherst next week! ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 11, 2010, 09:41:03 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 11, 2010, 09:35:52 PM
Quote from: hugenerd on January 11, 2010, 09:18:04 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 11, 2010, 09:14:00 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 11, 2010, 09:00:12 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 11, 2010, 11:31:22 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 10, 2010, 10:32:11 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 10, 2010, 10:05:51 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 10, 2010, 07:32:12 PMSome I suspect are destined to be outliers

I'm going to take responsibility for at least one of those, although in looking at my ballot, I hope it's no more than one.  I think I did a pretty good job this year.

Your 23, 24, and 25 are looking pretty lonely still, after six ballots. ;)

Looks like Hoops Fan remains the secret identity of that Posters' Poll superhero, Captain Outlier.

Those were rough picks.  I actually had them at 27, 28, and 29, but a bunch of teams just above them had poor showings over the weekend.

I don't think they have to be on there, but I couldn't make a good case for anyone else to be ahead of them.

There's no saying that they are wrong, but after 8 ballots they are still lonely! :D

Even my 'lonely' #25 picked up a #24 from another voter.

There is a voter with a totally lonely #23 and #24 (though his #25 looks to be in the teens overall); you and he have the only 'orphans' so far.  

On the other hand, you didn't have an 'orphan' at #8! ;D

Overall, I'd say you are all within the mainstream - and if there were NO outliers, where would new votes come from when someone lays an egg?! ;)

The other voter you are talking about is definitely is me.  I was not impressed by my #25 but voted them there to avoid further scrutiny, 2 losses to non-Top 25 caliber teams and no other really big wins to note was not too impressive in my analysis.  Their Massey is also really low, in the 70s if I remember correctly.

You, sir, are a very perceptive voter!  Your #25 is being voted in the teens by 5 voters, #20 by one, and omitted entirely by (you guessed it) Hoops Fan!

That makes it F&M or Brandeis.  I'm guessing the latter.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 11, 2010, 09:42:53 PM

Now I'm really starting to look forward to this poll.  It seems like teams have played fewer games or fewer games against common opponents this year.  I really would rather have not ranked anyone below 19 or 20.  It just seems like we're missing too much information at this point; much too much guess work.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hugenerd on January 11, 2010, 09:52:40 PM
It was actually the former, the latter didnt make my poll.  I was thinking of ranking NYU over F&M but put them just below in my 26-30 group.  NYU has some impressive wins recently, including over Lebanon Valley who beat F&M.  They also gave Wesleyan their worst loss of the season tonight (by 21 at Wesleyan) and Wesleyan has already played at Williams and Amherst.  I just couldnt justify putting Brandeis ahead of NYU.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 11, 2010, 11:04:04 PM
I dropped Franklin & Marshall down to #20 and considered putting them lower for the same reasons as hugenerd. Plus I think the overall strength of the Centernnial Conference is down this year as compared to the past few years.

Mr. Yipsi I'm guessing my #24 gave your lonely #25 some company but I could be wrong. I dropped Amherst down to #18 this week and omitted Brandeis completely from my top 30. I'm interested to see what people did with Medialle. They are kind of like Mass-Dartmouth was in 2007-08. The Corsairs were undefeated and kept moving up the polls slowly from #23 in week 5 all the way up to #2 in week 10.  Sort of like the St. Peter Pinciple Greg referred to on the Top 25 board. They played a weak schedule in a weak league but the voters kept moving them up because they were the only undefeated team and as someone above them lost they floated up but it was with some reluctance as the voters were concerned over their strength of schedule. And rightly so as it turned out because they dropped 2 of their next 3 games, then lost in their tournament championship, and got beat in the only NCAA game they played by Coast Guard.

Medaille has a similar kind of schedule so I don't think their climb up the poll will be rapid and they may not stay undefeated as deep into the season as UMD did 2 years ago. UMD hit 20-0 before they dropped one.     
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 11, 2010, 11:34:56 PM
Quote from: magicman on January 11, 2010, 11:04:04 PM
I dropped Franklin & Marshall down to #20 and considered putting them lower for the same reasons as hugenerd. Plus I think the overall strength of the Centernnial Conference is down this year as compared to the past few years.

Mr. Yipsi I'm guessing my #24 gave your lonely #25 some company but I could be wrong. I dropped Amherst down to #18 this week and omitted Brandeis completely from my top 30. I'm interested to see what people did with Medialle. They are kind of like Mass-Dartmouth was in 2007-08. The Corsairs were undefeated and kept moving up the polls slowly from #23 in week 5 all the way up to #2 in week 10.  Sort of like the St. Peter Pinciple Greg referred to on the Top 25 board. They played a weak schedule in a weak league but the voters kept moving them up because they were the only undefeated team and as someone above them lost they floated up but it was with some reluctance as the voters were concerned over their strength of schedule. And rightly so as it turned out because they dropped 2 of their next 3 games, then lost in their tournament championship, and got beat in the only NCAA game they played by Coast Guard.

Medaille has a similar kind of schedule so I don't think their climb up the poll will be rapid and they may not stay undefeated as deep into the season as UMD did 2 years ago. UMD hit 20-0 before they dropped one.     

Actually, your #24 is VERY popular (will almost certainly land solidly in the top 25); it wasn't until the 8th voter that anyone 'confirmed' me! ;)

You're right about Medaille - they are all over the place.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 11, 2010, 11:55:49 PM
I'm also interested to see where Eastern Mennonite ends up in the posters poll. (And the real poll for that matter) I'm guessing I might have placed them higher than most, although it wouldn't surprise me if hugenerd had them up there as well, since he's touted them ever since they beat Virginia Wesleyan on the road back in November. I think they might knock off #1 this week. At least I hope they do because I'm picking them in the National Pick Em League. I've probably got Middlebury higher than most as well because I didn't penalize them but 1 spot for that loss to Colby-Sawyer, which I think was an abberation. (I prefer to beleive it was the hard-fought game my Plattsburgh St. Cardinals gave them 2 days before that loss that set them up for Colby Sawyer.) ;) ;D   
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 12, 2010, 11:53:23 AM

I have E Mennonite at #6, just ahead of Guilford.  The ODAC teams have some impressive early season games, a component severely lacking in some of the other contenders.

Teams like Middlebury, Mississippi College, Amherst, and MIT are barely beating bad teams with few signature wins.  At this early point in the season, a signature win spoke much more loudly to me than a loss or two.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hugenerd on January 12, 2010, 01:09:14 PM
I had them ranked Eastern Mennonite, VWU, and then Guilford, because EM hasnt lost a d3 game and beat VWU and VWU beat Guilford.  All three were in my top 10 but I forget exactly where (either 7-9 or 8-10).  The Eastern Mennonite/Randolph Macon matchup will be big this week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 12, 2010, 03:19:27 PM
Well, the new official d3 poll is out.  I had five teams not in my top 25, but four of the five I replaced them with were getting votes (most were just outside the top 25).

My #25 didn't get any votes and probably will not get any from this group either.  It's a super stretch and I don't expect them to last long; I just couldn't make a case for anyone else to get in over them (mainly on their results versus a decently tough early schedule).

In retrospect, I probably should have put Linfield in in their place, but I wanted to see a few NWC games first.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2010, 04:25:10 PM
We're now up to nine ballots.  Any more in the pipeline?

I'll post early this evening unless I hear of a voter who needs more time.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nescac1 on January 12, 2010, 04:46:32 PM
Reading up a bit on the ODAC teams, EMU does not seem to be a fluke, in that they had a decent record last year, returned all their key guys (one of whom in particular seems really improved), and added what seems to be a top-notch transfer.  They are a bit on the short side, so I wonder how they'll deal with RMC and Guilford's tremendous size up front. 

RMC and EMU both are dominated by strong junior classes and have no seniors of note, so those two teams will likely be even stronger next year (VWU and Guildford's big stars are both seniors).   Given that several usual power conferences are struggling a bit (CCIW and OAC in particular), and considering how weak the rest of the south region is, ODAC has a legit shot of sneaking four teams into the tourney come March. 

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2010, 06:39:29 PM
Quote from: nescac1 on January 12, 2010, 04:46:32 PM
Reading up a bit on the ODAC teams, EMU does not seem to be a fluke, in that they had a decent record last year, returned all their key guys (one of whom in particular seems really improved), and added what seems to be a top-notch transfer.  They are a bit on the short side, so I wonder how they'll deal with RMC and Guilford's tremendous size up front. 

RMC and EMU both are dominated by strong junior classes and have no seniors of note, so those two teams will likely be even stronger next year (VWU and Guildford's big stars are both seniors).   Given that several usual power conferences are struggling a bit (CCIW and OAC in particular), and considering how weak the rest of the south region is, ODAC has a legit shot of sneaking four teams into the tourney come March. 

My only  concern about the practical aspects of the ODAC getting 3 Pool C bids is that the logistics of having a South Region team come off 3 times in the 19 rounds seems remote.  All three of those teams will get a loss in the ODAC tourney, and they have at least 3 regular season games among the 4.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hugenerd on January 12, 2010, 06:50:38 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2010, 06:39:29 PM
Quote from: nescac1 on January 12, 2010, 04:46:32 PM
Reading up a bit on the ODAC teams, EMU does not seem to be a fluke, in that they had a decent record last year, returned all their key guys (one of whom in particular seems really improved), and added what seems to be a top-notch transfer.  They are a bit on the short side, so I wonder how they'll deal with RMC and Guilford's tremendous size up front.  

RMC and EMU both are dominated by strong junior classes and have no seniors of note, so those two teams will likely be even stronger next year (VWU and Guildford's big stars are both seniors).   Given that several usual power conferences are struggling a bit (CCIW and OAC in particular), and considering how weak the rest of the south region is, ODAC has a legit shot of sneaking four teams into the tourney come March.  

My only  concern about the practical aspects of the ODAC getting 3 Pool C bids is that the logistics of having a South Region team come off 3 times in the 19 rounds seems remote.  All three of those teams will get a loss in the ODAC tourney, and they have at least 3 regular season games among the 4.

In most cases I would agree with you, but all 4 teams have done really well for themselves by not losing to any d3 teams, so far, other than eachother.  If they continue to win the rest of their games and they split amongst eachother, they would each still only have 3 or 4 losses (currently R-M and EMU have none, VWU and Guilford only have one to another team in this group).  In the past we have seen teams with 6 or 7 losses make the tourney (Brandeis last year).  On the other hand, if one team really is a step below the others, and loses a bunch of those matchups, then that team would likely be left out.  I cant see, however, a team getting left out if all four of those teamsare 21-4 or better (even 20-5).  It wouldnt be unprecedented, as the UAA has gotten four in several times over the last decade, but they have the obvious advantage of being in different regions.  I still think it is possible, however.  I am sure it would also be a lot easier to schedule in terms of travel arrangements.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2010, 06:54:09 PM
Quote from: hugenerd on January 12, 2010, 06:50:38 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2010, 06:39:29 PM
Quote from: nescac1 on January 12, 2010, 04:46:32 PM
Reading up a bit on the ODAC teams, EMU does not seem to be a fluke, in that they had a decent record last year, returned all their key guys (one of whom in particular seems really improved), and added what seems to be a top-notch transfer.  They are a bit on the short side, so I wonder how they'll deal with RMC and Guilford's tremendous size up front. 

RMC and EMU both are dominated by strong junior classes and have no seniors of note, so those two teams will likely be even stronger next year (VWU and Guildford's big stars are both seniors).   Given that several usual power conferences are struggling a bit (CCIW and OAC in particular), and considering how weak the rest of the south region is, ODAC has a legit shot of sneaking four teams into the tourney come March. 

My only  concern about the practical aspects of the ODAC getting 3 Pool C bids is that the logistics of having a South Region team come off 3 times in the 19 rounds seems remote.  All three of those teams will get a loss in the ODAC tourney, and they have at least 3 regular season games among the 4.

In most cases I would agree with you, but all 4 teams have done really well for themselves by not losing to any d3 teams, so far, other than eachother.  If they continue to win the rest of their games and they split amongst eachother, they would each still only have 3 or 4 losses (currently R-M and EMU have none, VWU and Guilford only have one to another team in this group).  In the past we have seen teams with 6 or 7 losses make the tourney (Brandeis last year).  On the other hand, if one team really is a step below the others, and looses a bunch of those matchups, then that team would likely be left out.  I cant see, however, a team getting left out if all four of those teamsare 21-4 or better (even 20-5).  It wouldnt be unprecedented, as the UAA has gotten four in several times over the last decade, but they have the obvious advantage of being in different regions.  I still think it is possible, however.  I am sure it would also be a lot easier to schedule in terms of travel arrangements.

For the newbies reading this board, the selection process is done by regional rankings and the regional teams being considered for the next bid.

Because the UAA is a multi-region conference, there may be 3-4 UAA teams being considered for a bid at the same time in each round of the process.

The ODAC is stuck with the teams being considered one team at a time for each of the 19 rounds.  After the first team is selected, then the next one can move up to the table.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2010, 07:20:08 PM
POSTERS' POLL, Jan. 10, 2010:

1.  UWSP         220 (1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,4)
2.  Randy-Mac  216 (1,1,1,2,2,2,3,3,3)
3.  WashU       207 (2,2,2,3,3,3,4,4,4)
4.  UWW         203 (2,3,3,3,4,4,4,4,4)
5.  St. Thomas 181 (5,5,5,5,5,6,6,6,10)
6.  Guilford      176 (5,5,5,6,6,6,7,8,10)
7.  Williams      171 (5,6,7,7,7,7,7,8,9)
8.  Va. Wes.     156 (7,7,8,8,8,9,9,10,12)
9.  MIT             128 (7,9,10,11,11,12,13,14,19)
t10 Anderson   126 (8,10,11,11,12,13,13,14,16)
t10 EMU            126 (6,6,8,9,12,13,13,17,24)
12 Amherst       109 (8,9,11,12,13,13,15,18,-)
13 St. Norbert    94 (9,11,12,12,15,16,18,21,-)
14 Wilmington    90 (10,14,14,15,16,18,18,19,20)
15 F & M             83 (9,10,10,14,15,20,22,25,-)
16 Middlebury    82 (8,14,14,16,18,19,20,21,22)
17 Whitworth    67 (10,11,13,14,19,24,24,-,-)
18 Miss Col        66 (15,16,16,17,18,19,20,21,-)
19 Medaille        64 (11,12,12,16,19,24,25,25,-)
20 IWU              60 (14,15,17,18,21,21,22,22,24)
21 UW-LaX        59 (9,11,17,18,23,23,23,25,-)
22 Chapman      44 (17,17,19,19,20,23,23,-,-)
23 UT-Dallas      42 (13,16,19,21,22,23,-,-,-)
24 Wheaton      32 (15,17,17,24,25,-,-,-,-)
25 St. Mary's (Md) 31 (15,20,21,21,22,-,-,-,-)

26 Brandeis       28 (15,18,20,23)
27 Willy Pat       27 (16,17,22,22)
28 Maryville (Tn)  11 (20,21)
29 R, Stockton    6 (20)
30 York (Pa)       5 (21)
t31 WPI              3 (24, 25)
t31 Baruch         3 (23)
t31 JCU              3 (23)
t34 SJU              2 (24)
t34 Wooster       2 (24)
t36 Calvin          1
t36 SJF              1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2010, 07:41:39 PM
One thing I found interesting - the real poll had a 'big six' then a big drop-off.  We had a 'big four' (capturing every single 1-4 vote), then a tight race for 5-7.

I was also curious about the 24th place vote for EMU (even 21st and they jump from t10th to 9th), but that came from one of our most respected voters, so ...

The non-vote for Amherst also seemed suspicious (being on the only ballot received AFTER they lost to Babson), but the voter (also a well-respected veteran) assured me by return PM that he already had them below the top 25 due to their Massey rank (#38) on Sunday.

As an IWU partisan, I was pleased that they were ranked on every ballot (something 6 teams above them can't say!).  BTW, partisan though I am, I only had them 18th - if I were a TOTAL homer, I could have raised them 3 slots on the final tally! :D

Let the debates commence! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 12, 2010, 08:06:27 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2010, 06:39:29 PM
Quote from: nescac1 on January 12, 2010, 04:46:32 PM
Reading up a bit on the ODAC teams, EMU does not seem to be a fluke, in that they had a decent record last year, returned all their key guys (one of whom in particular seems really improved), and added what seems to be a top-notch transfer.  They are a bit on the short side, so I wonder how they'll deal with RMC and Guilford's tremendous size up front. 

RMC and EMU both are dominated by strong junior classes and have no seniors of note, so those two teams will likely be even stronger next year (VWU and Guildford's big stars are both seniors).   Given that several usual power conferences are struggling a bit (CCIW and OAC in particular), and considering how weak the rest of the south region is, ODAC has a legit shot of sneaking four teams into the tourney come March. 

My only  concern about the practical aspects of the ODAC getting 3 Pool C bids is that the logistics of having a South Region team come off 3 times in the 19 rounds seems remote.  All three of those teams will get a loss in the ODAC tourney, and they have at least 3 regular season games among the 4.

We also have to couple that with the fact that upsets during the ODAC conference play are pretty common.  With four top teams, it seems unlikely they'll all finish with records that will assure them of even getting to the table for Pool C selection.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 12, 2010, 08:11:36 PM
I was the lowest (or tied for lowest) on eight teams and the highest (or tied for highest) on six of the Top 25.  I had William Patterson at 16, the only team from my Top 20 not to make it into the actual Top 25.

That doesn't seem too bad for a poll in which 2/3rds of the slots were virtual toss-ups.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hugenerd on January 12, 2010, 08:17:12 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 12, 2010, 08:06:27 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2010, 06:39:29 PM
Quote from: nescac1 on January 12, 2010, 04:46:32 PM
Reading up a bit on the ODAC teams, EMU does not seem to be a fluke, in that they had a decent record last year, returned all their key guys (one of whom in particular seems really improved), and added what seems to be a top-notch transfer.  They are a bit on the short side, so I wonder how they'll deal with RMC and Guilford's tremendous size up front. 

RMC and EMU both are dominated by strong junior classes and have no seniors of note, so those two teams will likely be even stronger next year (VWU and Guildford's big stars are both seniors).   Given that several usual power conferences are struggling a bit (CCIW and OAC in particular), and considering how weak the rest of the south region is, ODAC has a legit shot of sneaking four teams into the tourney come March. 

My only  concern about the practical aspects of the ODAC getting 3 Pool C bids is that the logistics of having a South Region team come off 3 times in the 19 rounds seems remote.  All three of those teams will get a loss in the ODAC tourney, and they have at least 3 regular season games among the 4.

We also have to couple that with the fact that upsets during the ODAC conference play are pretty common.  With four top teams, it seems unlikely they'll all finish with records that will assure them of even getting to the table for Pool C selection.

There are going to be extra spots this year, though.  One additional Pool C to begin with, plus the UAA, CCIW, and OAC are down so there will be extra spots on the table. Unless Rochester, NYU, or Brandeis distinguish themselves, this is the first time in a long time that the UAA could conceivably be a one bid conference.  Brandeis already has two losses, they still have to play Amherst, WashU twice, Rochester twice, Chicago twice, NYU once, and the rest of the slate.  I doubt they get in with 7 losses again, so they are going to at least need a 10-4 record in conference, which is no easy feat, if they lose to Amherst.  NYU always seems to fall apart in league play, and also have two losses already, so they would need at least a 10-4 record in conference.  Same thing goes for Rochester.  No one else in the UAA really has a chance with the out-of-conference results.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 12, 2010, 08:52:30 PM
Quote from: hugenerd on January 12, 2010, 08:17:12 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 12, 2010, 08:06:27 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2010, 06:39:29 PM
Quote from: nescac1 on January 12, 2010, 04:46:32 PM
Reading up a bit on the ODAC teams, EMU does not seem to be a fluke, in that they had a decent record last year, returned all their key guys (one of whom in particular seems really improved), and added what seems to be a top-notch transfer.  They are a bit on the short side, so I wonder how they'll deal with RMC and Guilford's tremendous size up front.  

RMC and EMU both are dominated by strong junior classes and have no seniors of note, so those two teams will likely be even stronger next year (VWU and Guildford's big stars are both seniors).   Given that several usual power conferences are struggling a bit (CCIW and OAC in particular), and considering how weak the rest of the south region is, ODAC has a legit shot of sneaking four teams into the tourney come March.  

My only  concern about the practical aspects of the ODAC getting 3 Pool C bids is that the logistics of having a South Region team come off 3 times in the 19 rounds seems remote.  All three of those teams will get a loss in the ODAC tourney, and they have at least 3 regular season games among the 4.

We also have to couple that with the fact that upsets during the ODAC conference play are pretty common.  With four top teams, it seems unlikely they'll all finish with records that will assure them of even getting to the table for Pool C selection.

There are going to be extra spots this year, though.  One additional Pool C to begin with, plus the UAA, CCIW, and OAC are down so there will be extra spots on the table. Unless Rochester, NYU, or Brandeis distinguish themselves, this is the first time in a long time that the UAA could conceivably be a one bid conference.  Brandeis already has two losses, they still have to play Amherst, WashU twice, Rochester twice, Chicago twice, NYU once, and the rest of the slate.  I doubt they get in with 7 losses again, so they are going to at least need a 10-4 record in conference, which is no easy feat, if they lose to Amherst.  NYU always seems to fall apart in league play, and also have two losses already, so they would need at least a 10-4 record in conference.  Same thing goes for Rochester.  No one else in the UAA really has a chance with the out-of-conference results.

That's very true.  Perhaps we'll see a larger number of conferences with two bids this year.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 12, 2010, 09:28:01 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 12, 2010, 08:52:30 PM
Quote from: hugenerd on January 12, 2010, 08:17:12 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 12, 2010, 08:06:27 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2010, 06:39:29 PM
Quote from: nescac1 on January 12, 2010, 04:46:32 PM
Reading up a bit on the ODAC teams, EMU does not seem to be a fluke, in that they had a decent record last year, returned all their key guys (one of whom in particular seems really improved), and added what seems to be a top-notch transfer.  They are a bit on the short side, so I wonder how they'll deal with RMC and Guilford's tremendous size up front. 

RMC and EMU both are dominated by strong junior classes and have no seniors of note, so those two teams will likely be even stronger next year (VWU and Guildford's big stars are both seniors).   Given that several usual power conferences are struggling a bit (CCIW and OAC in particular), and considering how weak the rest of the south region is, ODAC has a legit shot of sneaking four teams into the tourney come March. 

My only  concern about the practical aspects of the ODAC getting 3 Pool C bids is that the logistics of having a South Region team come off 3 times in the 19 rounds seems remote.  All three of those teams will get a loss in the ODAC tourney, and they have at least 3 regular season games among the 4.

We also have to couple that with the fact that upsets during the ODAC conference play are pretty common.  With four top teams, it seems unlikely they'll all finish with records that will assure them of even getting to the table for Pool C selection.

There are going to be extra spots this year, though.  One additional Pool C to begin with, plus the UAA, CCIW, and OAC are down so there will be extra spots on the table. Unless Rochester, NYU, or Brandeis distinguish themselves, this is the first time in a long time that the UAA could conceivably be a one bid conference.  Brandeis already has two losses, they still have to play Amherst, WashU twice, Rochester twice, Chicago twice, NYU once, and the rest of the slate.  I doubt they get in with 7 losses again, so they are going to at least need a 10-4 record in conference, which is no easy feat, if they lose to Amherst.  NYU always seems to fall apart in league play, and also have two losses already, so they would need at least a 10-4 record in conference.  Same thing goes for Rochester.  No one else in the UAA really has a chance with the out-of-conference results.

That's very true.  Perhaps we'll see a larger number of teams with two bids this year.

I believe you meant to say conferences with two bids.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hugenerd on January 12, 2010, 09:31:48 PM
Quote from: magicman on January 12, 2010, 09:28:01 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 12, 2010, 08:52:30 PM
Quote from: hugenerd on January 12, 2010, 08:17:12 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 12, 2010, 08:06:27 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2010, 06:39:29 PM
Quote from: nescac1 on January 12, 2010, 04:46:32 PM
Reading up a bit on the ODAC teams, EMU does not seem to be a fluke, in that they had a decent record last year, returned all their key guys (one of whom in particular seems really improved), and added what seems to be a top-notch transfer.  They are a bit on the short side, so I wonder how they'll deal with RMC and Guilford's tremendous size up front. 

RMC and EMU both are dominated by strong junior classes and have no seniors of note, so those two teams will likely be even stronger next year (VWU and Guildford's big stars are both seniors).   Given that several usual power conferences are struggling a bit (CCIW and OAC in particular), and considering how weak the rest of the south region is, ODAC has a legit shot of sneaking four teams into the tourney come March. 

My only  concern about the practical aspects of the ODAC getting 3 Pool C bids is that the logistics of having a South Region team come off 3 times in the 19 rounds seems remote.  All three of those teams will get a loss in the ODAC tourney, and they have at least 3 regular season games among the 4.

We also have to couple that with the fact that upsets during the ODAC conference play are pretty common.  With four top teams, it seems unlikely they'll all finish with records that will assure them of even getting to the table for Pool C selection.

There are going to be extra spots this year, though.  One additional Pool C to begin with, plus the UAA, CCIW, and OAC are down so there will be extra spots on the table. Unless Rochester, NYU, or Brandeis distinguish themselves, this is the first time in a long time that the UAA could conceivably be a one bid conference.  Brandeis already has two losses, they still have to play Amherst, WashU twice, Rochester twice, Chicago twice, NYU once, and the rest of the slate.  I doubt they get in with 7 losses again, so they are going to at least need a 10-4 record in conference, which is no easy feat, if they lose to Amherst.  NYU always seems to fall apart in league play, and also have two losses already, so they would need at least a 10-4 record in conference.  Same thing goes for Rochester.  No one else in the UAA really has a chance with the out-of-conference results.

That's very true.  Perhaps we'll see a larger number of teams with two bids this year.

I believe you meant to say conferences with two bids.
I thought he meant that WashU's starters and bench were going to make the tourney as two seperate squads.  ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 12, 2010, 09:43:41 PM
Quote from: magicman on January 12, 2010, 09:28:01 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 12, 2010, 08:52:30 PM
Quote from: hugenerd on January 12, 2010, 08:17:12 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 12, 2010, 08:06:27 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2010, 06:39:29 PM
Quote from: nescac1 on January 12, 2010, 04:46:32 PM
Reading up a bit on the ODAC teams, EMU does not seem to be a fluke, in that they had a decent record last year, returned all their key guys (one of whom in particular seems really improved), and added what seems to be a top-notch transfer.  They are a bit on the short side, so I wonder how they'll deal with RMC and Guilford's tremendous size up front. 

RMC and EMU both are dominated by strong junior classes and have no seniors of note, so those two teams will likely be even stronger next year (VWU and Guildford's big stars are both seniors).   Given that several usual power conferences are struggling a bit (CCIW and OAC in particular), and considering how weak the rest of the south region is, ODAC has a legit shot of sneaking four teams into the tourney come March. 

My only  concern about the practical aspects of the ODAC getting 3 Pool C bids is that the logistics of having a South Region team come off 3 times in the 19 rounds seems remote.  All three of those teams will get a loss in the ODAC tourney, and they have at least 3 regular season games among the 4.

We also have to couple that with the fact that upsets during the ODAC conference play are pretty common.  With four top teams, it seems unlikely they'll all finish with records that will assure them of even getting to the table for Pool C selection.

There are going to be extra spots this year, though.  One additional Pool C to begin with, plus the UAA, CCIW, and OAC are down so there will be extra spots on the table. Unless Rochester, NYU, or Brandeis distinguish themselves, this is the first time in a long time that the UAA could conceivably be a one bid conference.  Brandeis already has two losses, they still have to play Amherst, WashU twice, Rochester twice, Chicago twice, NYU once, and the rest of the slate.  I doubt they get in with 7 losses again, so they are going to at least need a 10-4 record in conference, which is no easy feat, if they lose to Amherst.  NYU always seems to fall apart in league play, and also have two losses already, so they would need at least a 10-4 record in conference.  Same thing goes for Rochester.  No one else in the UAA really has a chance with the out-of-conference results.

That's very true.  Perhaps we'll see a larger number of teams with two bids this year.

I believe you meant to say conferences with two bids.

I did say that; I'm not sure what's up with the quote feature tonight?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: frodotwo on January 12, 2010, 09:45:03 PM
I had the top nine exactly, but the rest were within a couple of spots with the exception of Medaille, which I had several spots too high. I had 3 outside the top 25, not too bad, but the top 10 was easy compared to finding the proper seeding for 11-25.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2010, 10:08:29 PM
Quote from: frodotwo on January 12, 2010, 09:45:03 PM
I had the top nine exactly, but the rest were within a couple of spots with the exception of Medaille, which I had several spots too high. I had 3 outside the top 25, not too bad, but the top 10 was easy compared to finding the proper seeding for 11-25.

Don't think of it as good or bad when you do or don't match.  After all, if we all matched exactly, there would be no need for a poll (any one ballot would tell us everything!).

I found the first eight easy (which matched the overall top eight, though not all in the same order), but was driven to drink (thank you! ;)) after that.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 12, 2010, 11:01:16 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2010, 07:20:08 PM
POSTERS' POLL, Jan. 10, 2010:


30 York (Pa)       5 (21)
t31 WPI              3 (24, 25)
t31 Baruch         3 (23)
t31 JCU              3 (23)
t34 SJU              2 (24)
t34 Wooster       2 (24)
t36 Calvin          1
t36 SJF              1

really?  7-6?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 12, 2010, 11:02:02 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2010, 10:08:29 PM
Quote from: frodotwo on January 12, 2010, 09:45:03 PM
I had the top nine exactly, but the rest were within a couple of spots with the exception of Medaille, which I had several spots too high. I had 3 outside the top 25, not too bad, but the top 10 was easy compared to finding the proper seeding for 11-25.

Don't think of it as good or bad when you do or don't match.  After all, if we all matched exactly, there would be no need for a poll (any one ballot would tell us everything!).

I found the first eight easy (which matched the overall top eight, though not all in the same order), but was driven to drink (thank you! ;)) after that.

Don't drink and post Chuck ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2010, 11:12:36 PM
Quote from: sac on January 12, 2010, 11:01:16 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2010, 07:20:08 PM
POSTERS' POLL, Jan. 10, 2010:


30 York (Pa)       5 (21)
t31 WPI              3 (24, 25)
t31 Baruch         3 (23)
t31 JCU              3 (23)
t34 SJU              2 (24)
t34 Wooster       2 (24)
t36 Calvin          1
t36 SJF              1

really?  7-6?
Yeah, no Calvin love here, but sure 'nuff, Calvin will go 13-1 in the MIAA (18-7/13-1), win the MIAA tourney (20-7/13-1 conference/ 14-2 in-region) and then make it to the Sweet 16.

That is not that far-fetched.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2010, 11:19:29 PM
Quote from: sac on January 12, 2010, 11:02:02 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2010, 10:08:29 PM
Quote from: frodotwo on January 12, 2010, 09:45:03 PM
I had the top nine exactly, but the rest were within a couple of spots with the exception of Medaille, which I had several spots too high. I had 3 outside the top 25, not too bad, but the top 10 was easy compared to finding the proper seeding for 11-25.

Don't think of it as good or bad when you do or don't match.  After all, if we all matched exactly, there would be no need for a poll (any one ballot would tell us everything!).

I found the first eight easy (which matched the overall top eight, though not all in the same order), but was driven to drink (thank you! ;)) after that.

Don't drink and post Chuck ;)

I confess to that (and have sometimes ended up in hot water), but it has been MANY years since I would drink and drive! ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2010, 11:20:59 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2010, 11:12:36 PM
Quote from: sac on January 12, 2010, 11:01:16 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2010, 07:20:08 PM
POSTERS' POLL, Jan. 10, 2010:


30 York (Pa)       5 (21)
t31 WPI              3 (24, 25)
t31 Baruch         3 (23)
t31 JCU              3 (23)
t34 SJU              2 (24)
t34 Wooster       2 (24)
t36 Calvin          1
t36 SJF              1

really?  7-6?
Yeah, no Calvin love here, but sure 'nuff, Calvin will go 13-1 in the MIAA (18-7/13-1), win the MIAA tourney (20-7/13-1 conference/ 14-2 in-region) and then make it to the Sweet 16.

That is not that far-fetched.

It might be far-fetched to a Hope fan! :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 12, 2010, 11:22:38 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2010, 11:19:29 PM


I confess to that (and have sometimes ended up in hot water),

So what are the odds IWU goes unbeaten this year ;) :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2010, 11:30:24 PM
Quote from: sac on January 12, 2010, 11:22:38 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2010, 11:19:29 PM


I confess to that (and have sometimes ended up in hot water),

So what are the odds IWU goes unbeaten this year ;) :D

EXTREMELY slim! ;D

But I seriously doubt I was the only one who harbored those thoughts in 2005-2006.  That was one helluva team, and unanimously #1 by the beginning of January.  Apparently I was the only one foolish enough to express those thoughts! :P
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 12, 2010, 11:36:06 PM
This is my #25 that I didn't really like, but found they made the best case for themselves at this point.  It's also where I really wanted to put Linfield, but just didn't feel like they'd shown me enough yet.

Hope and Calvin are difficult cases.  Always are.  This season Calvin has played 13 games, but only 9 against d3 opponents.  They're 6-3 in those games, with a three point loss to Hope (they also have a more recent nine point victory over Hope), a loss to Loras at a holiday tournament, and a loss to Wheaton at Hope (essentially a road game).

I tend to discount the results of rivalry games and early season tournaments, at least more easily forgive losses.  Wheaton is one of the top teams in the CCIW.

Wins over (non-slouches) Lewis & Clark and Carthage, plus 1-1 vs Hope is a solid schedule otherwise.

At this point in the year, I have to reward decent results from good scheduling.  None of the other contenders for that final spot have played anyone who was very good, let alone shown that they were noticeably superior to any of the mediocre teams they've played.

This Calvin vote was essentially by default.  When Brandeis lost to NYU, I couldn't in good conscience keep them in the Top 25 without them having proven anything.  To my surprise, #26 and #27 happened to be Hope and Calvin on my list.  Hope's 8-5 overall, 3-2 against d3 schools and 1-1 vs Calvin.  The schedule tipped it.

Again, Linfield is rolling early in their NWC schedule, but they don't have a body of work for me to trust just yet.  As Ralph pointed out; Calvin has a history.  So if I was going to take a flier on a team that lost a bunch of games to scholarship schools, I went with the one that has a history of being sneaky good.

If Linfield beats Pacific and George Fox this weekend, they jump Calvin no matter what.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 12, 2010, 11:55:37 PM
Who else besides me had Stevens Pt. 1st Wash U 2nd and Randy-Macon 3rd?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hugenerd on January 13, 2010, 12:02:36 AM
Quote from: magicman on January 12, 2010, 11:55:37 PM
Who else besides me had Stevens Pt. 1st Wash U 2nd and Randy-Macon 3rd?

I did.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 13, 2010, 12:05:20 AM
And he was the only other with that precise listing.

[As veterans know, I never reveal votes until voters choose to 'out' themselves.]
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hugenerd on January 13, 2010, 12:14:36 AM
Did anyone else look at St. John's (MN)?  They are the only team I could find that I was considering putting in my poll that only had 1 bad loss and some good wins.  They have 3 losses, one to a non-D3 school that is ranked in their respective affiliation (St. Cloud St. and that loss was in OT), other than that they have lost to Stevens Point (top 3 team), and their one bad loss was a conference game.  They have 2 wins over WIAC opponents and they have beaten a solid Augsburg club.  They are also #8 in the Massey ratings (and I love numbers).  

My other outlier was Baruch, who's only loss coming into the week was at a holiday tournament to a decent team (they were 11-1).  Too bad they lost on Monday.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 13, 2010, 12:46:21 AM
Quote from: hugenerd on January 13, 2010, 12:14:36 AM
Did anyone else look at St. John's (MN)?  They are the only team I could find that I was considering putting in my poll that only had 1 bad loss and some good wins.  They have 3 losses, one to a non-D3 school that is ranked in their respective affiliation (St. Cloud St. and that loss was in OT), other than that they have lost to Stevens Point (top 3 team), and their one bad loss was a conference game.  They have 2 wins over WIAC opponents and they have beaten a solid Augsburg club.  They are also #8 in the Massey ratings (and I love numbers).  

My other outlier was Baruch, who's only loss coming into the week was at a holiday tournament to a decent team (they were 11-1).  Too bad they lost on Monday.

I looked at them and have them on my watch list. St Cloud does seem to be a decent team and they're D2 and the 2 wins over Oshkosh and Eau Claire were impressive. Thought I would wait to see how they did against the top teams in the conference as they beat most of the bottom dwellers. Tommies and Gusties next week will tell the story. What was your # 25 pick this week St. John Fisher or WPI?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 13, 2010, 01:01:14 AM
Maybe it is just me, but between their history and their schedule, I think Baruch would have to get to about 18-0 before I seriously considered them.

St. John's is on my radar (faintly), but barely in the 30s, much less the 20s.  I'm not concerned about St. Cloud, and (on a given night) anyone could get blown out by UWSP, but losing by 11 to Carleton?!  They'll have to beat the Tommies, or have a LOT of other teams lose, before they get my vote.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hugenerd on January 13, 2010, 01:06:33 AM
Quote from: magicman on January 13, 2010, 12:46:21 AM
Quote from: hugenerd on January 13, 2010, 12:14:36 AM
Did anyone else look at St. John's (MN)?  They are the only team I could find that I was considering putting in my poll that only had 1 bad loss and some good wins.  They have 3 losses, one to a non-D3 school that is ranked in their respective affiliation (St. Cloud St. and that loss was in OT), other than that they have lost to Stevens Point (top 3 team), and their one bad loss was a conference game.  They have 2 wins over WIAC opponents and they have beaten a solid Augsburg club.  They are also #8 in the Massey ratings (and I love numbers).  

My other outlier was Baruch, who's only loss coming into the week was at a holiday tournament to a decent team (they were 11-1).  Too bad they lost on Monday.

I looked at them and have them on my watch list. St Cloud does seem to be a decent team and they're D2 and the 2 wins over Oshkosh and Eau Claire were impressive. Thought I would wait to see how they did against the top teams in the conference as they beat most of the bottom dwellers. Tommies and Gusties next week will tell the story. What was your # 25 pick this week St. John Fisher or WPI?

Mine?  It was F&M.  I probably had the fewest northeast teams ranked of anyone (at least tied), I only had 4, I believe (the 3 NESCACs and MIT).  Didnt have Fisher either.  Other teams I had in the 20s were Wilmington, Maryville, William Paterson, and then other 3 teams already mentioned.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hugenerd on January 13, 2010, 01:13:23 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 13, 2010, 01:01:14 AM
Maybe it is just me, but between their history and their schedule, I think Baruch would have to get to about 18-0 before I seriously considered them.

St. John's is on my radar (faintly), but barely in the 30s, much less the 20s.  I'm not concerned about St. Cloud, and (on a given night) anyone could get blown out by UWSP, but losing by 11 to Carleton?!  They'll have to beat the Tommies, or have a LOT of other teams lose, before they get my vote.

What about losing to Colby - Sawyer by 10?  Or losing to McDaniel by 9? Or MHB by 19?

I could probably come up with more examples, but all of those teams are ranked despite their losses to teams slightly better than .500.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hugenerd on January 13, 2010, 01:18:10 AM
Trivia:  Which Top 25 team is the only team to lose to two unranked D3 opponents by double figures, yet still remain in the polls?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 13, 2010, 01:33:41 AM
Quote from: hugenerd on January 13, 2010, 01:18:10 AM
Trivia:  Which Top 25 team is the only team to lose to two unranked D3 opponents by double figures, yet still remain in the polls?

I believe that would be Mississippi College. At least it was the 1st one that came to mind and when I checked their record it was so.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 13, 2010, 01:58:00 AM
Quote from: hugenerd on January 13, 2010, 01:06:33 AM
I probably had the fewest northeast teams ranked of anyone (at least tied), I only had 4, I believe (the 3 NESCACs and MIT). 

Those are the only 4 I had as well.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hugenerd on January 13, 2010, 07:40:13 AM
Quote from: magicman on January 13, 2010, 01:33:41 AM
Quote from: hugenerd on January 13, 2010, 01:18:10 AM
Trivia:  Which Top 25 team is the only team to lose to two unranked D3 opponents by double figures, yet still remain in the polls?

I believe that would be Mississippi College. At least it was the 1st one that came to mind and when I checked their record it was so.

Nope, Mississippi College only lost by 9 to Concordia-Austin.  Brandeis lost by 10 to UMD and by 12 to NYU.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 13, 2010, 11:02:26 AM
Quote from: hugenerd on January 13, 2010, 07:40:13 AM
Quote from: magicman on January 13, 2010, 01:33:41 AM
Quote from: hugenerd on January 13, 2010, 01:18:10 AM
Trivia:  Which Top 25 team is the only team to lose to two unranked D3 opponents by double figures, yet still remain in the polls?

I believe that would be Mississippi College. At least it was the 1st one that came to mind and when I checked their record it was so.

Nope, Mississippi College only lost by 9 to Concordia-Austin.  Brandeis lost by 10 to UMD and by 12 to NYU.

Yeah, I can't add. Saw 81-72 and my brain thought 82-71. But Mississippi College is darn close. And a 9 pt loss to Concordia-Austin and 19 pt loss to Mary Hardin-Baylor is 6 more pts than Brandeis combined 22 pts. :D ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hugenerd on January 13, 2010, 11:56:17 AM
Quote from: magicman on January 13, 2010, 11:02:26 AM
Quote from: hugenerd on January 13, 2010, 07:40:13 AM
Quote from: magicman on January 13, 2010, 01:33:41 AM
Quote from: hugenerd on January 13, 2010, 01:18:10 AM
Trivia:  Which Top 25 team is the only team to lose to two unranked D3 opponents by double figures, yet still remain in the polls?

I believe that would be Mississippi College. At least it was the 1st one that came to mind and when I checked their record it was so.

Nope, Mississippi College only lost by 9 to Concordia-Austin.  Brandeis lost by 10 to UMD and by 12 to NYU.

Yeah, I can't add. Saw 81-72 and my brain thought 82-71. But Mississippi College is darn close. And a 9 pt loss to Concordia-Austin and 19 pt loss to Mary Hardin-Baylor is 6 more pts than Brandeis combined 22 pts. :D ;D

So you already answered my next trivia question, which is what Top 25 team has lost to D3 unranked opponents by the most combined points?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 13, 2010, 12:23:40 PM
Which Top 25 teams based on who they play this week have the best chance to drop out of the next poll? I can think of 5 possibilities, and 2 that probably will.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 13, 2010, 01:45:53 PM

I was looking at three teams (beside St Thomas) from that conference.  I have GAC ahead of St. John's right now.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hugenerd on January 13, 2010, 02:16:42 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 13, 2010, 01:45:53 PM

I was looking at three teams (beside St Thomas) from that conference.  I have GAC ahead of St. John's right now.

Yeah, not a bad call.  I had them really close.  GAC doesnt really have a bad loss, although I am not familiar with the two Hawaii teams they lost to.  I gave St. John's the nod because I felt they had a couple better wins at that point, but I could have easily inverted their positions.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 13, 2010, 02:29:24 PM
Quote from: hugenerd on January 13, 2010, 02:16:42 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 13, 2010, 01:45:53 PM

I was looking at three teams (beside St Thomas) from that conference.  I have GAC ahead of St. John's right now.

Yeah, not a bad call.  I had them really close.  GAC doesnt really have a bad loss, although I am not familiar with the two Hawaii teams they lost to.

Hawai'i Pacific is currently 11-3 and Hawai'i-Hilo is 9-4. Neither team is ranked in the current NABC Division II poll.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hugenerd on January 13, 2010, 03:41:48 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 13, 2010, 02:29:24 PM
Quote from: hugenerd on January 13, 2010, 02:16:42 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 13, 2010, 01:45:53 PM

I was looking at three teams (beside St Thomas) from that conference.  I have GAC ahead of St. John's right now.

Yeah, not a bad call.  I had them really close.  GAC doesnt really have a bad loss, although I am not familiar with the two Hawaii teams they lost to.

Hawai'i Pacific is currently 11-3 and Hawai'i-Hilo is 9-4. Neither team is ranked in the current NABC Division II poll.

Hawai'i Pacific beat Chapman also.  Anyone else you know of play either of those teams?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: iwumichigander on January 13, 2010, 03:43:24 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2010, 11:30:24 PM
Quote from: sac on January 12, 2010, 11:22:38 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2010, 11:19:29 PM


I confess to that (and have sometimes ended up in hot water),

So what are the odds IWU goes unbeaten this year ;) :D

EXTREMELY slim! ;D

But I seriously doubt I was the only one who harbored those thoughts in 2005-2006.  That was one helluva team, and unanimously #1 by the beginning of January.  Apparently I was the only one foolish enough to express those thoughts! :P
Ask Mr. Ypsi that question on the women's boards ....and, he might give you a different answer!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 13, 2010, 03:57:26 PM
Quote from: iwumichigander on January 13, 2010, 03:43:24 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2010, 11:30:24 PM
Quote from: sac on January 12, 2010, 11:22:38 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2010, 11:19:29 PM


I confess to that (and have sometimes ended up in hot water),

So what are the odds IWU goes unbeaten this year ;) :D

EXTREMELY slim! ;D

But I seriously doubt I was the only one who harbored those thoughts in 2005-2006.  That was one helluva team, and unanimously #1 by the beginning of January.  Apparently I was the only one foolish enough to express those thoughts! :P
Ask Mr. Ypsi that question on the women's boards ....and, he might give you a different answer!

True that!  Since they already have last year as a precedent, I think there is at least a 50-50 chance they go undefeated again this year - hopefully ALL (post)season, too, this time! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 13, 2010, 04:06:32 PM
Quote from: iwumichigander on January 13, 2010, 03:43:24 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2010, 11:30:24 PM
Quote from: sac on January 12, 2010, 11:22:38 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2010, 11:19:29 PM


I confess to that (and have sometimes ended up in hot water),

So what are the odds IWU goes unbeaten this year ;) :D

EXTREMELY slim! ;D

But I seriously doubt I was the only one who harbored those thoughts in 2005-2006.  That was one helluva team, and unanimously #1 by the beginning of January.  Apparently I was the only one foolish enough to express those thoughts! :P
Ask Mr. Ypsi that question on the women's boards ....and, he might give you a different answer!

I didn't know of anybody besides Chuck who harbored those thoughts in 2005-06. In fact, most of us who are long-time D3 followers went to great lengths on these boards to impress upon him the extraordinary difficulty of finishing the season with an unbeaten record in D3 men's basketball, no matter how great that team may be.

Quote from: hugenerd on January 13, 2010, 03:41:48 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 13, 2010, 02:29:24 PM
Quote from: hugenerd on January 13, 2010, 02:16:42 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 13, 2010, 01:45:53 PM

I was looking at three teams (beside St Thomas) from that conference.  I have GAC ahead of St. John's right now.

Yeah, not a bad call.  I had them really close.  GAC doesnt really have a bad loss, although I am not familiar with the two Hawaii teams they lost to.

Hawai'i Pacific is currently 11-3 and Hawai'i-Hilo is 9-4. Neither team is ranked in the current NABC Division II poll.

Hawai'i Pacific beat Chapman also.  Anyone else you know of play either of those teams?

Hawai'i Pacific beat LaVerne (4-8) by nine in early December. Following that game, LaVerne went on to lose to Chaminade by five to conclude its trip to the Aloha State. Chapman's second game on its Hawaiian trip was with BYU-Hawai'i, which it beat in overtime. BYUH is currently 7-4.

All four of those schools -- Hawai'i Pacific, Hawai'i-Hilo, BYU-Hawai'i, and Chaminade -- are D2 and members of the Pacific West Conference.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hugenerd on January 13, 2010, 04:14:48 PM
Thanks
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 13, 2010, 04:49:30 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 13, 2010, 04:06:32 PM
Quote from: iwumichigander on January 13, 2010, 03:43:24 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2010, 11:30:24 PM
Quote from: sac on January 12, 2010, 11:22:38 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2010, 11:19:29 PM


I confess to that (and have sometimes ended up in hot water),

So what are the odds IWU goes unbeaten this year ;) :D

EXTREMELY slim! ;D

But I seriously doubt I was the only one who harbored those thoughts in 2005-2006.  That was one helluva team, and unanimously #1 by the beginning of January.  Apparently I was the only one foolish enough to express those thoughts! :P
Ask Mr. Ypsi that question on the women's boards ....and, he might give you a different answer!

I didn't know of anybody besides Chuck who harbored those thoughts in 2005-06. In fact, most of us who are long-time D3 followers went to great lengths on these boards to impress upon him the extraordinary difficulty of finishing the season with an unbeaten record in D3 men's basketball, no matter how great that team may be.

Actually, I just went back and checked the posts.  At my most exuberant (I believe it was December 31, 2005, so champagne may have been involved! :P), I only had them up to a 30% probability of running the CCIW, and 20% of winning the title undefeated.  (I DID go on to 'stick my neck out' and, despite the fact I thought the odds were against it, predict that they would do it anyway.)

Two additional points:

That same season Lawrence went undefeated until IWU beat them in the tourney.

Hiker Jim posted (4 or 5 posts later) that he thought my 30% was too LOW.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: oldchap on January 13, 2010, 05:08:28 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 13, 2010, 04:06:32 PM
Chapman's second game on its Hawaiian trip was with BYU-Hawai'i, which it beat in overtime. BYUH is currently 7-4.

All four of those schools -- Hawai'i Pacific, Hawai'i-Hilo, BYU-Hawai'i, and Chaminade -- are D2 and members of the Pacific West Conference.


BYU Hawaii was ranked 18th in Division 2 when Chapman beat them. They have since then dropped out of the top 25 but still garner some votes. Here is the link: http://www.nabc.org/coaches_corner/coaches_corner-polls-div2.html

By the way, I have a nice recap of the BYUH/Chapman game in the West Region Independent Schedule board, for those of you who are interested: http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=5506.60

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 13, 2010, 07:05:01 PM

I don't think it matter how good the Hawaii teams are when GAC traveled there to play.  I don't know how you would expect your team to play its best games in Hawaii.  That's like the ultimate holiday tournament pass, especially when they're non-d3 games.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 13, 2010, 09:12:25 PM
Sorry I missed it this time. Workin'.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hugenerd on January 13, 2010, 09:22:36 PM
Eastern Mennonite destroys Randolph-Macon.  They are real, as I have been suggesting all year, and they still are undefeated in the ODAC.  Their schedule is set up real favorably also.  They only have two more games against the top 4 in the ODAC, VWU at home (whom they already beat on the road) and Guilford on the road.  They are setup to do some big things in the regular season if they dont have letdowns or look past any teams.

I though MIT was equally impressive tonight.  From the opening tip they exerted their will in their matchup with WPI and they had double digit lead for the majority of the game.  They won 76-53, holding WPI to 30 points below their season average.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pbrooks3 on January 13, 2010, 09:59:46 PM
Guess we've established that EMU is for real!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 13, 2010, 10:29:35 PM
And the Gusties took out the Tommies - looks like Hugenerd and Hoops Fan were right to look at a second MIAC team.

Second week of our poll, and back to square one already! :o :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hugenerd on January 13, 2010, 10:36:11 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 13, 2010, 10:29:35 PM
And the Gusties took out the Tommies - looks like Hugenerd and Hoops Fan were right to look at a second MIAC team.

Second week of our poll, and back to square one already! :o :D

Clearly, with the win today GAC puts them ahead of St. Johns.  Looks like the top of the MIAC is pretty strong this year.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: hasanova on January 13, 2010, 11:01:35 PM
Quote from: hugenerd on January 13, 2010, 09:22:36 PM
Eastern Mennonite destroys Randolph-Macon.  They are real, as I have been suggesting all year, and they still are undefeated in the ODAC.  Their schedule is set up real favorably also.  They only have two more games against the top 4 in the ODAC, VWU at home (whom they already beat on the road) and Guilford on the road.  They are setup to do some big things in the regular season if they dont have letdowns or look past any teams.

I though MIT was equally impressive tonight.  From the opening tip they exerted their will in their matchup with WPI and they had double digit lead for the majority of the game.  They won 76-53, holding WPI to 30 points below their season average.
EMU at Guilford will be huge, especially since it'll be their lone regular-season meeting.  We'll see what happens this weekend when Guilford hosts VWC, but the Quakers are arguably playing as well as any d3 team in the country right now.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 13, 2010, 11:07:39 PM
As the keeper of the Posters' Poll, does Mr Ypsi qualify to be considered a "psephologist"?

;)

(Actually, I had to look that word up in my dictionary when I read it in the UK Times Online.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 13, 2010, 11:16:48 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 13, 2010, 11:07:39 PM
As the keeper of the Posters' Poll, does Mr Ypsi qualify to be considered a "psephologist"?

;)

(Actually, I had to look that word up in my dictionary when I read it in the UK Times Online.)

Wow - my unabridged doesn't even have THAT word!  Though it does have psephisma (from the Greek for a vote of the people), which I'd assume is the same root.

Yippee!  I'm a psephologist! :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 13, 2010, 11:23:54 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 13, 2010, 11:16:48 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 13, 2010, 11:07:39 PM
As the keeper of the Posters' Poll, does Mr Ypsi qualify to be considered a "psephologist"?

;)

(Actually, I had to look that word up in my dictionary when I read it in the UK Times Online.)

Wow - my unabridged doesn't even have THAT word!  Though it does have psephisma (from the Greek for a vote of the people), which I'd assume is the same root.

Yippee!  I'm a psephologist! :D
Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary reports that the word was first used in 1952.

It comes from the Greek word, psephos, meaning "pebble", as in the use of pebbles in by ancient Greeks in voting.  (Long e  eta as in psi eta phi omicron sigma )
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 13, 2010, 11:48:50 PM
Quote from: hugenerd on January 13, 2010, 09:22:36 PM
Eastern Mennonite destroys Randolph-Macon.  They are real, as I have been suggesting all year, and they still are undefeated in the ODAC.  Their schedule is set up real favorably also.  They only have two more games against the top 4 in the ODAC, VWU at home (whom they already beat on the road) and Guilford on the road.  They are setup to do some big things in the regular season if they dont have letdowns or look past any teams.

I though MIT was equally impressive tonight.  From the opening tip they exerted their will in their matchup with WPI and they had double digit lead for the majority of the game.  They won 76-53, holding WPI to 30 points below their season average.

Since you are an advocate of MIT, you may be more attuned to teams 'coming from nowhere' than many of us.  Last year was EMU's first winning season (overall or conference) in seemingly forever (and even then only marginally - 15-11 and 9-7), and only 3 years ago they were 3-15 in the ODAC.  Their win over VaWes alerted me that they were pretty decent; now I'm fully on the bandwagon.  I still suspect Guilford is the team to beat, but that is one tremendous conference this year!

I'm also now a full-fledged believer in MIT.  With the graduation of their greatest player ever, I expected them to slide back to mediocrity (or worse).  I'm currently wiping egg off my face after trying to 'steal' a point from everyone by taking WPI in the National Pickems! :P
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hugenerd on January 14, 2010, 12:20:46 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 13, 2010, 11:48:50 PM
Quote from: hugenerd on January 13, 2010, 09:22:36 PM
Eastern Mennonite destroys Randolph-Macon.  They are real, as I have been suggesting all year, and they still are undefeated in the ODAC.  Their schedule is set up real favorably also.  They only have two more games against the top 4 in the ODAC, VWU at home (whom they already beat on the road) and Guilford on the road.  They are setup to do some big things in the regular season if they dont have letdowns or look past any teams.

I though MIT was equally impressive tonight.  From the opening tip they exerted their will in their matchup with WPI and they had double digit lead for the majority of the game.  They won 76-53, holding WPI to 30 points below their season average.

Since you are an advocate of MIT, you may be more attuned to teams 'coming from nowhere' than many of us.  Last year was EMU's first winning season (overall or conference) in seemingly forever (and even then only marginally - 15-11 and 9-7), and only 3 years ago they were 3-15 in the ODAC.  Their win over VaWes alerted me that they were pretty decent; now I'm fully on the bandwagon.  I still suspect Guilford is the team to beat, but that is one tremendous conference this year!

I'm also now a full-fledged believer in MIT.  With the graduation of their greatest player ever, I expected them to slide back to mediocrity (or worse).  I'm currently wiping egg off my face after trying to 'steal' a point from everyone by taking WPI in the National Pickems! :P

It is true MIT is a completely different team than last year.  I hope they can keep this up.  Those of you who listened to Hoopsville this past Sunday got a chance to hear Coach Anderson speak and I am sure you were scratching your heads when he said one of their strengths is their youth,  He is absolutely correct.  5 out of the 7 guys (one of their usual rotation guys was hurt, they usually play an 8-9 man rotation) who saw significant minutes in tonight's game are new to the team (4 freshman, 1 soph transfer) and another is just a sophomore.  These guys dont care if WPI has beat them for 7 years straight.  They just go out there and play hard every night regardless of who the opponent is.  This group has a very high ceiling, and they have only played half a season together so far.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 14, 2010, 12:30:50 AM
Quote from: hugenerd on January 13, 2010, 10:36:11 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 13, 2010, 10:29:35 PM
And the Gusties took out the Tommies - looks like Hugenerd and Hoops Fan were right to look at a second MIAC team.

Second week of our poll, and back to square one already! :o :D

Clearly, with the win today GAC puts them ahead of St. Johns.  Looks like the top of the MIAC is pretty strong this year.

Especially because St. Johns lost again today, this time to Hamline. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 14, 2010, 10:58:13 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 13, 2010, 10:29:35 PM
And the Gusties took out the Tommies - looks like Hugenerd and Hoops Fan were right to look at a second MIAC team.

The problem is, I never really believed this St. Thomas team was for real.  I was the lowest voter for them in the first poll and now I don't know how far to drop them.  They've played a tough schedule, but haven't been blowing out teams like they have been for the past few seasons.  Now with a GAC team that lacks a point of reference to beat them.  I've very lost on this one.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 14, 2010, 11:01:43 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 13, 2010, 11:48:50 PM
I'm also now a full-fledged believer in MIT.  With the graduation of their greatest player ever, I expected them to slide back to mediocrity (or worse).  I'm currently wiping egg off my face after trying to 'steal' a point from everyone by taking WPI in the National Pickems!

I'm also wiping egg, but for the opposite reason.  I watched a lot of MIT teams during the early part of the past decade and they always had better talent than most of the other NE region schools, they just never put together a decent performance.  I always chalked it up to different priorities for an MIT student, and routinely expected them to under-perform.  I still have trouble believing they'll put it all together, but with each game it gets more and more likely that they will.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 14, 2010, 11:03:18 AM

My ballot got decimated last night.  Losses for three of my top 10, plus another top ten team (one I took a flier on) barely beat a squad that a top ten team should stomp.  A host of other losses and near losses in 11-20.  Maybe Calvin will stay on my ballot after all - at least they had an impressive win over a middling opponent.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 14, 2010, 03:40:03 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 14, 2010, 10:58:13 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 13, 2010, 10:29:35 PM
And the Gusties took out the Tommies - looks like Hugenerd and Hoops Fan were right to look at a second MIAC team.

The problem is, I never really believed this St. Thomas team was for real.  I was the lowest voter for them in the first poll and now I don't know how far to drop them.  They've played a tough schedule, but haven't been blowing out teams like they have been for the past few seasons.  Now with a GAC team that lacks a point of reference to beat them.  I've very lost on this one.

The seasoned MIACers didn't see this UST team as being as good as last year's either... they thought the Tommies were too high and the old St. Peter Principle came into full effect, as the Tommies matriculated up to #2.  They didn't lose, so there wasn't any reason to knock them down at all, but even as it was, the MIACers thought #4 was too high.  I don't recall seeing anything that stated if any other MIAC schools were better or at least comparable (though there may have been some initial discussions about St. John's).

I think GAC looks pretty good.  Two losses to NCAA-II teams, another loss to La Crosse (LaX's loss last night to RF looks pretty bad, but other losses were not, @ Stevens Point, Whitewater, and ranked NAIA-II Dakota Wesleyan... not a great loss, but not a loss to miserable team)... and that's it.  They got 2 votes in the last poll... this should get them several more, though I'm not sure if it's enough to crack the top 25.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 14, 2010, 04:25:55 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 13, 2010, 04:49:30 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 13, 2010, 04:06:32 PM
Quote from: iwumichigander on January 13, 2010, 03:43:24 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2010, 11:30:24 PM
Quote from: sac on January 12, 2010, 11:22:38 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2010, 11:19:29 PM


I confess to that (and have sometimes ended up in hot water),

So what are the odds IWU goes unbeaten this year ;) :D

EXTREMELY slim! ;D

But I seriously doubt I was the only one who harbored those thoughts in 2005-2006.  That was one helluva team, and unanimously #1 by the beginning of January.  Apparently I was the only one foolish enough to express those thoughts! :P
Ask Mr. Ypsi that question on the women's boards ....and, he might give you a different answer!

I didn't know of anybody besides Chuck who harbored those thoughts in 2005-06. In fact, most of us who are long-time D3 followers went to great lengths on these boards to impress upon him the extraordinary difficulty of finishing the season with an unbeaten record in D3 men's basketball, no matter how great that team may be.

Actually, I just went back and checked the posts.  At my most exuberant (I believe it was December 31, 2005, so champagne may have been involved! :P), I only had them up to a 30% probability of running the CCIW, and 20% of winning the title undefeated.  (I DID go on to 'stick my neck out' and, despite the fact I thought the odds were against it, predict that they would do it anyway.)

Two additional points:

That same season Lawrence went undefeated until IWU beat them in the tourney.

Hiker Jim posted (4 or 5 posts later) that he thought my 30% was too LOW.

Those odds were still way too high, although I stand corrected about your being alone in your estimations. As for Lawrence, that's what the tournament does -- it eventually cuts down to size teams that emerge undefeated from lesser conferences. Not to cast aspersions upon what was a fine Lawrence team that year, but I doubt that anyone aside from Lawrence fans anticipated seeing the Larries run the table from stem to stern, Braier or not.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 14, 2010, 06:00:36 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on January 14, 2010, 03:40:03 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 14, 2010, 10:58:13 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 13, 2010, 10:29:35 PM
And the Gusties took out the Tommies - looks like Hugenerd and Hoops Fan were right to look at a second MIAC team.

The problem is, I never really believed this St. Thomas team was for real.  I was the lowest voter for them in the first poll and now I don't know how far to drop them.  They've played a tough schedule, but haven't been blowing out teams like they have been for the past few seasons.  Now with a GAC team that lacks a point of reference to beat them.  I've very lost on this one.

The seasoned MIACers didn't see this UST team as being as good as last year's either... they thought the Tommies were too high and the old St. Peter Principle came into full effect, as the Tommies matriculated up to #2.  They didn't lose, so there wasn't any reason to knock them down at all, but even as it was, the MIACers thought #4 was too high.  I don't recall seeing anything that stated if any other MIAC schools were better or at least comparable (though there may have been some initial discussions about St. John's).

I think GAC looks pretty good.  Two losses to NCAA-II teams, another loss to La Crosse (LaX's loss last night to RF looks pretty bad, but other losses were not, @ Stevens Point, Whitewater, and ranked NAIA-II Dakota Wesleyan... not a great loss, but not a loss to miserable team)... and that's it.  They got 2 votes in the last poll... this should get them several more, though I'm not sure if it's enough to crack the top 25.

As an aside... I just remembered that the River Falls team that beat La Crosse last night played St Thomas to a 1 point game earlier this year.  I think the not-Point/Whitewater WIAC teams this year are all really talented... so they can play well against good competition, but they also play down to their competition too.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 15, 2010, 12:46:21 AM
I put together a 'midweek' ballot today.  If the weekend is anything like Wednesday, I'll be tearing it up and starting over AGAIN. :P
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 15, 2010, 12:49:53 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 15, 2010, 12:46:21 AM
I put together a 'midweek' ballot today.  If the weekend is anything like Wednesday, I'll be tearing it up and starting over AGAIN. :P

That's one of the definite pluses of a last-minute ballot... I haven't even really THOUGHT about mine yet, so I won't have to change my mind on anything!!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: frodotwo on January 15, 2010, 11:15:38 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on January 15, 2010, 12:49:53 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 15, 2010, 12:46:21 AM
I put together a 'midweek' ballot today.  If the weekend is anything like Wednesday, I'll be tearing it up and starting over AGAIN. :P

That's one of the definite pluses of a last-minute ballot... I haven't even really THOUGHT about mine yet, so I won't have to change my mind on anything!!

I too did the mid-week ballot and should have saved the paper. Shocking losses by several teams in my top 15, especially WU and RMU. #1 and #2 will be WIAC next week.......unless of course upset week continues Sat & Sun. :P
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 15, 2010, 11:24:30 PM
Quote from: frodotwo on January 15, 2010, 11:15:38 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on January 15, 2010, 12:49:53 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 15, 2010, 12:46:21 AM
I put together a 'midweek' ballot today.  If the weekend is anything like Wednesday, I'll be tearing it up and starting over AGAIN. :P

That's one of the definite pluses of a last-minute ballot... I haven't even really THOUGHT about mine yet, so I won't have to change my mind on anything!!

I too did the mid-week ballot and should have saved the paper. Shocking losses by several teams in my top 15, especially WU and RMU. #1 and #2 will be WIAC next week.......unless of course upset week continues Sat & Sun. :P

Probably true, but EMU and/or the winner of Guilford/VaWes may give 'em a run for the money.  The ODAC is having an historic year - they should have 3 (maybe 4) teams in the top ten next week.  Has any conference ever had four?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 16, 2010, 12:11:58 AM

I've got Point and EMU 1-2 unless tomorrow changes things.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: y_jack_lok on January 16, 2010, 01:06:02 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 16, 2010, 12:11:58 AM

I've got Point and EMU 1-2 unless tomorrow changes things.

EMU should not have any trouble with Randolph College tomorrow, especially given that they didn't have any trouble with Randolph-Macon on Wednesday night. Might as well put EMU as high as you can, give them a feel for what it's like to be in that stratosphere, and find out how they respond.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 16, 2010, 07:15:19 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on January 14, 2010, 03:40:03 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 14, 2010, 10:58:13 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 13, 2010, 10:29:35 PM
And the Gusties took out the Tommies - looks like Hugenerd and Hoops Fan were right to look at a second MIAC team.

The problem is, I never really believed this St. Thomas team was for real.  I was the lowest voter for them in the first poll and now I don't know how far to drop them.  They've played a tough schedule, but haven't been blowing out teams like they have been for the past few seasons.  Now with a GAC team that lacks a point of reference to beat them.  I've very lost on this one.

The seasoned MIACers didn't see this UST team as being as good as last year's either... they thought the Tommies were too high and the old St. Peter Principle came into full effect, as the Tommies matriculated up to #2.  They didn't lose, so there wasn't any reason to knock them down at all, but even as it was, the MIACers thought #4 was too high.  I don't recall seeing anything that stated if any other MIAC schools were better or at least comparable (though there may have been some initial discussions about St. John's).

I think GAC looks pretty good.  Two losses to NCAA-II teams, another loss to La Crosse (LaX's loss last night to RF looks pretty bad, but other losses were not, @ Stevens Point, Whitewater, and ranked NAIA-II Dakota Wesleyan... not a great loss, but not a loss to miserable team)... and that's it.  They got 2 votes in the last poll... this should get them several more, though I'm not sure if it's enough to crack the top 25.

I suspect it WOULD have been enough to jump into the top 25 (the Tommies were #5, after all), but today's loss to Bethel means we will never know!

Since St. John's lost to Hamline earlier, I suspect the MIAC will be a one-team top 25 conference, and that spot may only be mid-teens.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 16, 2010, 08:16:37 PM
Quote from: y_jack_lok on January 16, 2010, 01:06:02 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 16, 2010, 12:11:58 AM

I've got Point and EMU 1-2 unless tomorrow changes things.

EMU should not have any trouble with Randolph College tomorrow, especially given that they didn't have any trouble with Randolph-Macon on Wednesday night. Might as well put EMU as high as you can, give them a feel for what it's like to be in that stratosphere, and find out how they respond.

I had them at 7 last week, bumping them to #2 seemed fitting after this week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 16, 2010, 08:17:45 PM
Whitewater goes down 80-67
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 17, 2010, 12:30:46 AM
I'm TENTATIVELY going with

1. UWSP
2. Guilford
3. EMU
4. who the hell knows!

But that is only tentative! ;D

Talk about a week to tear up the ballots and start from scratch! :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 18, 2010, 12:00:43 AM

I put three ODAC teams in the Top 5, with the fourth at #11.  VA Wesleyan just hasn't proven anything on the court yet.

WashU dropped pretty far for me simply because I got to watch the game.  I'm convinced that if I could see every team in person I'd be unable to put together a ballot at all.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 18, 2010, 12:12:11 AM
Mine is in.



And a correction has been submitted!   :-\

Thanks to Mr Ypsi for running the Poll.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hugenerd on January 18, 2010, 12:21:43 AM
Mine is in also. Mr. Ypsi, make sure you use the second one I sent you, the first one had an error.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 18, 2010, 12:27:10 AM
Quote from: hugenerd on January 18, 2010, 12:21:43 AM
Mine is in also. Mr. Ypsi, make sure you use the second one I sent you, the first one had an error.

Lord Jeffrey will be pleased to hear he was just an error! :o ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 18, 2010, 12:55:28 AM
Mine is in as well.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 18, 2010, 02:43:06 AM
6 ballots in and tallied so far.

36 teams mentioned so far, but 7 are on only one ballot and 4 more on only two; we've come to a fairly close consensus.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pbrooks3 on January 18, 2010, 12:17:51 PM
Put my poll in earlier today - ODAC owns 2, 4, 5 and 12 in mine.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 18, 2010, 01:26:18 PM
In.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: frodotwo on January 18, 2010, 03:45:56 PM
I'm in. This was a difficult week with all of the losses. And then the losses by those who I picked to replace those with losses ???
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 18, 2010, 04:56:34 PM
We're now up to 8 ballots.  Some positions are pretty well locked up, but several spots (including #2) are VERY tight - your vote WILL make a difference!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 18, 2010, 06:28:52 PM
Quote from: frodotwo on January 18, 2010, 03:45:56 PM
I'm in. This was a difficult week with all of the losses. And then the losses by those who I picked to replace those with losses ???
Yeah, you look at Knightslappy's summary of the week before and it is ugly.

Everyone had a loss, and we are still too early in the season to discern a tough loss to a good opponent from an out-right mess-up!

I cannot fill that middle range.  For me, it is the group between about #8-9 and #30.

Anderson only beat Howard Payne by the 14 points that was about the same margin that HPU was losing on the road in the ASC-East.  Looking at the Anderson Box Score, they played their starters 31, 31, 32, 33 and 34 minutes.  They led by 12 at the half and finaly stretched that to 21 with 3:34 left in the game, but that is not very much depth compared to the style of play in the ASC where most teams are giving double-digit minutes to 8-10 players.  Plus, HPU was the second game of a long road trip to Indiana, a kind of "Hoosiers" trip with a side trip to Butler U.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 18, 2010, 06:51:52 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 18, 2010, 06:28:52 PM
Quote from: frodotwo on January 18, 2010, 03:45:56 PM
I'm in. This was a difficult week with all of the losses. And then the losses by those who I picked to replace those with losses ???
Yeah, you look at Knightslappy's summary of the week before and it is ugly.

Everyone had a loss, and we are still too early in the season to discern an tough loss to a good opponent from an out-right mess-up!

Except for the ODAC 'Big Four'.  With the exception of EMU's loss to a non-d3 team, they are undefeated except against each other.  Unless late ballots change things drastically, they will not only be the first conference in PP history to have 4 of the top 10, they will have 4 of the top 9! :o

It's been debated whether or not the ODAC has become a 'power conference' or is just on the fringes, but for this year at least I'm not sure any conference has ever had the power at the top that they do (and their next few are not that bad).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 19, 2010, 12:41:44 AM
New Top 25 poll is out:       http://d3hoops.com/top25/
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 19, 2010, 01:04:34 AM
Stevens Point #1 as expected. ODAC gets #2 Guilford #3 Randy-Macon, #7 Eastern Mennonite and #12 Virginia Wesleyan. I guess the voters just couldn't move the Royals from 18th place all the way up ahead of Randy-Macon despite their impressive win over the Yellow Jackets last Wednesday. I had Eastern Mennonite in 9th place last week so it was easy for me to put them in the 3rd spot this week, right below the Pointers and Guilford. I put Randoph-Macon in 5th and Virginia Wesleyan in 11th.   
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: dc_has_been on January 19, 2010, 01:27:00 PM
It will be interesting to see what happens with the ODAC, WIAC & NESCAC as their conference games play out.  Those three conferences take up 7 of the 10 top spots!  Someone is either going to standout and take control or they are going to all hand eachother another loss or two.  Unless the games are blowouts or they rack up more than 1 more loss it would be tough to mess with their rankings that much. 
A team that could really benefit from the 7 teams getting a loss or two in conference action is MIT.  Other than WPoly, I don't see many teams taking them down. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 19, 2010, 05:11:56 PM
Ten ballots in, and under an hour 'til the normal deadline.  Any more in the pipeline?

(I'm always willing to delay an hour or two if a potential voter lets me know they need the time.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 19, 2010, 06:57:06 PM
POSTERS' POLL, Jan 17, 2010

1.  UWSP           250 (unanimous)
2.  Guilford         232 (2,2,2,2,2,2,2,4,5,5)
3.  EMU              231 (2,2,2,3,3,3,3,3,4,4)
4.  Williams        215 (3,3,3,4,4,4,5,5,7,7)
5.  R-MC             213 (3,3,4,4,5,5,5,5,6,7)
6.  UWW            193 (5,6,6,6,6,7,7,7,8,9)
7.  WashU          184 (4,6,6,7,8,8,9,9,9,10)
8.  MIT                175 (4,5,6,7,8,9,11,11,12,12)
9.  VaWes           161 (6,8,9,9,9,11,11,11,12,13)
10 St. Thomas     148 (8,10,10,10,11,12,13,13,14)
11 Anderson       144 (7,9,10,10,12,12,12,13,14,17)
12 Middlebury     136 (8,8,8,10,14,14,14,14,16,18)
13 Whitworth      132 (7,8,10,12,12,14,16,16,16,17)
14 St. Norbert     127 (6,10,11,11,11,13,15,15,19,22)
15 IWU                111 (10,12,13,13,15,15,16,17,19,19)
16 Brandeis           77 (9,13,14,16,17,20,20,22,-,-)
17 Chapman          73 (14,16,17,17,18,20,20,21,22,22)
18 Miss Col            72 (16,16,17,17,17,18,18,19,24,-)
19 Willy Pat           71 (13,13,14,18,18,21,22,22,24,25)
20 UT-Dallas          58 (15,16,19,19,19,20,2023,25,-)
21 St. Mary's          51 (15,18,18,19,20,21,23,23,-,-)
22 Amherst            30 (15,20,21,21,23,-,-,-,-,-)
23 Medaille            28 (15,20,21,23,23,-,-,-,-,-)
24 F & M                26 (18,19,21,22,24,-,-,-,-,-)
25 UW-LaX            16 (17,20,25,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)

26 Rochester         15 (19,22,22)
27 Carthage          14 (22,23,23,24,24)
28 Wooster            13 (21,23,24,24,25)
29 Maryville            12 ((18,22)
t30 Albright            11 (15)
t30 Wheaton         11 (15)
32 Calvin                 5 (21)
33 Witt                    4 (24,25,25)
34 Lycoming            3 (22)
t35 Cabrini              2 (24)
t35 Wilma               2 (24)
t37 Defiance           1
t37 GAC                  1
t37 Linfield              1
t37 Oneonta St.      1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: frodotwo on January 19, 2010, 07:33:34 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 19, 2010, 06:57:06 PM
POSTERS' POLL, Jan 17, 2010

1.  UWSP           250    {1-220}                 (unanimous)
2.  Guilford         232   {6-176}                (2,2,2,2,2,2,2,4,5,5)
3.  EMU              231   {10-126}                (2,2,2,3,3,3,3,3,4,4)
4.  Williams        215   {7-171}                (3,3,3,4,4,4,5,5,7,7)
5.  R-MC             213   {2-216}                 (3,3,4,4,5,5,5,5,6,7)
6.  UWW            193    {4-203)                 (5,6,6,6,6,7,7,7,8,9)
7.  WashU          184   {3-207}               (4,6,6,7,8,8,9,9,9,10)
8.  MIT                175   {9-128}              (4,5,6,7,8,9,11,11,12,12)
9.  VaWes           161   {8-156}             (6,8,9,9,9,11,11,11,12,13)
10 St. Thomas     148   {5-181}            (8,10,10,10,11,12,13,13,14)
11 Anderson       144   {10-126}           (7,9,10,10,12,12,12,13,14,17)
12 Middlebury     136   {16-82}             (8,8,8,10,14,14,14,14,16,18)
13 Whitworth      132   {17-67}           (7,8,10,12,12,14,16,16,16,17)
14 St. Norbert     127    {13-94}         (6,10,11,11,11,13,15,15,19,22)
15 IWU                111   {20-60}        (10,12,13,13,15,15,16,17,19,19)
16 Brandeis           77   {26-28}           (9,13,14,16,17,20,20,22,-,-)
17 Chapman          73   {22-44}        (14,16,17,17,18,20,20,21,22,22)
18 Miss Col            72   {18-66}          (16,16,17,17,17,18,18,19,24,-)
19 Willy Pat           71   {27-27}        (13,13,14,18,18,21,22,22,24,25)
20 UT-Dallas          58   {23-42}           (15,16,19,19,19,20,2023,25,-)
21 St. Mary's          51  {25-31}          (15,18,18,19,20,21,23,23,-,-)
22 Amherst            30   {12-109}         (15,20,21,21,23,-,-,-,-,-)
23 Medaille            28   {19-64}            (15,20,21,23,23,-,-,-,-,-)
24 F & M                26   {15-83}           (18,19,21,22,24,-,-,-,-,-)
25 UW-LaX            16   {21-59}           (17,20,25,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)

26 Rochester         15   {NV}               (19,22,22)
27 Carthage          14   {NV}               (22,23,23,24,24)
28 Wooster            13 {34-2}            (21,23,24,24,25)
29 Maryville            12  {28-11}          ((18,22)
t30 Albright            11  {NV}               (15)
t30 Wheaton         11   {24-32}         (15)
32 Calvin                 5   {36-1}            (21)
33 Witt                    4   (NV}               (24,25,25)
34 Lycoming            3   {NV}              (22)
t35 Cabrini              2   {NV}             (24)
t35 Wilma               2    {14=90}       (24)
t37 Defiance           1    {NV}
t37 GAC                  1    {NV}
t37 Linfield              1    {NV}
t37 Oneonta St.      1   {NV}

Dropped out:  R. Stockton{29}; York (PA){30}; WPI{31}; Baruch{31}; JCU{31}; SJU{34}; SJF{36}

I added last week's poll in bold. Brandeis came into WU and beat them earning my vote this week, but 2 voters this week didn't think much of that feat. St. Norbert 6th on one ballot ??? Wilmington nearly disappeared after two losses.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 19, 2010, 07:34:03 PM

I assume "Wilma" is Wilmington?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 19, 2010, 07:35:34 PM
Quote from: frodotwo on January 19, 2010, 07:33:34 PM
I added last week's poll in bold. Brandeis came into WU and beat them earning my vote this week, but 2 voters this week didn't think much of that feat.

That game didn't earn Brandeis anything in my book, it really just cost WashU some respect.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hugenerd on January 19, 2010, 07:55:41 PM
Did someone forget Wheaton has 5 losses?  With 4 of them to unranked opponents?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 19, 2010, 08:46:58 PM
Thanks frodo!  +1!  :)

Wow!  We are up to 10 participants.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 19, 2010, 08:59:16 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 19, 2010, 07:34:03 PM

I assume "Wilma" is Wilmington?

Yes.  (I've obviously been on the OAC football board too much! ;))
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 19, 2010, 10:34:42 PM
Quote from: hugenerd on January 19, 2010, 07:55:41 PM
Did someone forget Wheaton has 5 losses?  With 4 of them to unranked opponents?

I dropped them several places after the loss to North Park.  I won't really be able to judge them well until they play IWU tomorrow.  They probably benefited from name and conference recognition a little bit.

I'm not sure they deserve to be at #15 (I'm almost positive they don't) I just couldn't make a case for the teams below them to jump them just yet.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hugenerd on January 19, 2010, 10:54:06 PM
What is your justification for putting them ahead of Carthage?

Also, good teams usually can win games on the road (at least some of them).  Wheaton is 2-5 on the road this year, with one of those wins being a 4OT game they wouldnt have won if not for 2 miraculous shots.  They are at home against IWU, so they have a shot, considering they havent lost at home, but they arent going to do anything this year if they cant win a road game. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 19, 2010, 11:22:49 PM
Even Wheaton fan/posters have been saying they were far overrated earlier.  The two CCIW voters in the PP both had Carthage ranked (22 and 23) but neither had Wheaton.  They might have the best one-two punch in the CCIW with sophomore McCrary and senior Panner, but they have NO bench.

I also wondered about that solo #15 vote for Albright (though not enough to challenge it) - they're 13-2, but who have they beaten?  With that schedule they'd need to be at least 14-1 to even be on my radar.

Oh well, if we all agreed, there'd be no need for a poll! ;D

(And you know it is a MAJOR down year for the CCIW when their only rep is 15th, and the two ORVs were mentioned on only 5 ballots!  By conference standards, the senior class is bad, but we SHALL return!  And for the doubters, my ballot had IWU exactly where they ended up - no home-cookin' here. :P)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 20, 2010, 12:14:44 AM
Interesting that Williams almost lost tonight at New Paltz St. The game featured 9  lead changes and 5 ties in the 2nd half alone. With 11 seconds left to play Williams hit a pair of free throws to grab a 70-68 lead and New Paltz came down and had a 3 pointer rim out that would have won it. New Paltz is currently in 7th place in the SUNYAC conference. Williams also beat Cortland St. earlier in the year on the Ephs home court 72-68. Cortland is tied for 4th place in the conference. Either the SUNYAC is stronger than I thought or Williams isn't as good as I've been giving them credit for. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 20, 2010, 12:30:14 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 19, 2010, 11:22:49 PM
(And you know it is a MAJOR down year for the CCIW when their only rep is 15th, and the two ORVs were mentioned on only 5 ballots!  By conference standards, the senior class is bad, but we SHALL return!

I've followed the CCIW for thirty years, and this is the worst senior class I have ever seen. There might only be three or four seniors total on the fifteen-man All-CCIW squad this season. (There were only three seniors on the All-CCIW squad two years ago, but it was a deeper class in terms of borderline All-CCIW players and decent role players. There are hardly any players who fit into those two categories in the CCIW's class of '10. And the CCIW did well in non-conference play two years ago because the junior class -- last year's seniors -- was so spectacular.)

Thing is, this season's junior class isn't all that great, either -- although it does contain d3hoops.com Player of the Year candidate Steve Djurickovic of Carthage. I don't think we'll see more than four or five juniors on this year's All-CCIW team. Put together a really bad senior class and a so-so junior class, and you have a recipe for a really down year for the league as a whole.

The sophomore class is something special, though -- and the freshman class looks really promising, too. I would expect the CCIW to bounce back next year, although not dramatically -- and if what I'm seeing this year holds up, the 2011-12 and 2012-13 seasons should look a lot like last year in terms of the CCIW being an absolutely dominant circuit.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 20, 2010, 07:56:14 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 19, 2010, 11:22:49 PM
I also wondered about that solo #15 vote for Albright (though not enough to challenge it) - they're 13-2, but who have they beaten?  With that schedule they'd need to be at least 14-1 to even be on my radar.

It may be a case of a mediocre team with a good record beating other mediocre teams with good records, or a case of me getting too slappy with my regional rankings, but according to my data, Albright has played the 5th toughest regional schedule in the country.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hugenerd on January 20, 2010, 10:18:32 AM
Quote from: magicman on January 20, 2010, 12:14:44 AM
Interesting that Williams almost lost tonight at New Paltz St. The game featured 9  lead changes and 5 ties in the 2nd half alone. With 11 seconds left to play Williams hit a pair of free throws to grab a 70-68 lead and New Paltz came down and had a 3 pointer rim out that would have won it. New Paltz is currently in 7th place in the SUNYAC conference. Williams also beat Cortland St. earlier in the year on the Ephs home court 72-68. Cortland is tied for 4th place in the conference. Either the SUNYAC is stronger than I thought or Williams isn't as good as I've been giving them credit for. 

This is being pedantic, but the game was actually closer than that (according to the game log).  New Paltz actually had the lead 68-67 until they were whistled for that foul with 11 seconds left, Wang knocked down both FTs to give them the edge 69-68, then New Paltz missed a 3 with 2 seconds left and immediately fouled, and Nate Robertson made 1 of 2 to make the final score 70-68.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 20, 2010, 02:05:29 PM
Quote from: hugenerd on January 19, 2010, 10:54:06 PM
What is your justification for putting them ahead of Carthage?

I think Carthage is better.  This is probably a result of my previous polls.  It's exactly the reason I go back and do the whole thing from scratch at the end of the year.  I just don't have the time to do that every week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 20, 2010, 02:07:11 PM
Quote from: magicman on January 20, 2010, 12:14:44 AM
Either the SUNYAC is stronger than I thought or Williams isn't as good as I've been giving them credit for. 

I think it's probably a little of both.  I've had my eye on a few of the SUNYAC teams this year, but they keep losing to each other.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: scout on January 20, 2010, 02:24:23 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 20, 2010, 02:07:11 PM
Quote from: magicman on January 20, 2010, 12:14:44 AM
Either the SUNYAC is stronger than I thought or Williams isn't as good as I've been giving them credit for. 

I think it's probably a little of both.  I've had my eye on a few of the SUNYAC teams this year, but they keep losing to each other.

So how large is your 'Teams to Keep an Eye On' list now? I know you had said that it was down to 70 as late as Friday of last week.

It would be interesting to see how home teams are faring compared to years past. I feel like we're seeing a dramatic decrease in home winning percentage, but that could be wrong. I'm just doing an eye test and am curious about how teams will do come tourney time (both in conference and nationally) with home court advantages...
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 20, 2010, 02:48:14 PM
I received an 11th ballot about noon today.  I won't repost since changes were pretty minor (a couple of teams well down the list traded places, and Rochester rose from 26th to 24th), but it did point out how close the battle for 2nd was: if this ballot were included, Guilford and EMU exactly tied for second!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 20, 2010, 02:51:16 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 20, 2010, 02:48:14 PM
I received an 11th ballot about noon today.  I won't repost since changes were pretty minor (a couple of teams well down the list traded places, and Rochester rose from 26th to 24th), but it did point out how close the battle for 2nd was: if this ballot were included, Guilford and EMU exactly tied for second!

Thanks to "#11".  Glad to have another fan participating.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 20, 2010, 02:54:28 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 20, 2010, 02:51:16 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 20, 2010, 02:48:14 PM
I received an 11th ballot about noon today.  I won't repost since changes were pretty minor (a couple of teams well down the list traded places, and Rochester rose from 26th to 24th), but it did point out how close the battle for 2nd was: if this ballot were included, Guilford and EMU exactly tied for second!

Thanks to "#11".  Glad to have another fan participating.

Actually he's a long-time voter, but whose schedule makes him iffy for this season - some weeks in, some not (one other long-time voter is also in that situation).

But I did just pick up a new voter, who will start next week - if everyone manages to participate in the same poll, we're up to 13! :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 20, 2010, 03:01:36 PM
Quote from: scout on January 20, 2010, 02:24:23 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 20, 2010, 02:07:11 PM
Quote from: magicman on January 20, 2010, 12:14:44 AM
Either the SUNYAC is stronger than I thought or Williams isn't as good as I've been giving them credit for. 

I think it's probably a little of both.  I've had my eye on a few of the SUNYAC teams this year, but they keep losing to each other.

So how large is your 'Teams to Keep an Eye On' list now? I know you had said that it was down to 70 as late as Friday of last week.


It's at 62 right now, but I think I'll have to add a few here and there.  70 or 75 is probably where I should be.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 20, 2010, 03:09:28 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 20, 2010, 02:54:28 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 20, 2010, 02:51:16 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 20, 2010, 02:48:14 PM
I received an 11th ballot about noon today.  I won't repost since changes were pretty minor (a couple of teams well down the list traded places, and Rochester rose from 26th to 24th), but it did point out how close the battle for 2nd was: if this ballot were included, Guilford and EMU exactly tied for second!

Thanks to "#11".  Glad to have another fan participating.

Actually he's a long-time voter, but whose schedule makes him iffy for this season - some weeks in, some not (one other long-time voter is also in that situation).

But I did just pick up a new voter, who will start next week - if everyone manages to participate in the same poll, we're up to 13! :)

We're practically on fire here at PP headquarters - yet another poster has just joined up (though he warns he may be sporadic due to med school applications).

In a perfect week - 14!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hugenerd on January 20, 2010, 04:03:22 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 20, 2010, 03:09:28 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 20, 2010, 02:54:28 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 20, 2010, 02:51:16 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 20, 2010, 02:48:14 PM
I received an 11th ballot about noon today.  I won't repost since changes were pretty minor (a couple of teams well down the list traded places, and Rochester rose from 26th to 24th), but it did point out how close the battle for 2nd was: if this ballot were included, Guilford and EMU exactly tied for second!

Thanks to "#11".  Glad to have another fan participating.

Actually he's a long-time voter, but whose schedule makes him iffy for this season - some weeks in, some not (one other long-time voter is also in that situation).

But I did just pick up a new voter, who will start next week - if everyone manages to participate in the same poll, we're up to 13! :)

We're practically on fire here at PP headquarters - yet another poster has just joined up (though he warns he may be sporadic due to med school applications).

In a perfect week - 14!

So are we getting an updated list today?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 20, 2010, 04:59:50 PM
Quote from: hugenerd on January 20, 2010, 04:03:22 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 20, 2010, 03:09:28 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 20, 2010, 02:54:28 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 20, 2010, 02:51:16 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 20, 2010, 02:48:14 PM
I received an 11th ballot about noon today.  I won't repost since changes were pretty minor (a couple of teams well down the list traded places, and Rochester rose from 26th to 24th), but it did point out how close the battle for 2nd was: if this ballot were included, Guilford and EMU exactly tied for second!

Thanks to "#11".  Glad to have another fan participating.

Actually he's a long-time voter, but whose schedule makes him iffy for this season - some weeks in, some not (one other long-time voter is also in that situation).

But I did just pick up a new voter, who will start next week - if everyone manages to participate in the same poll, we're up to 13! :)

We're practically on fire here at PP headquarters - yet another poster has just joined up (though he warns he may be sporadic due to med school applications).

In a perfect week - 14!

So are we getting an updated list today?

The new voters won't start until next week, so the only new ballot was #11 (which didn't change things enough to warrant all that re-typing!)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 21, 2010, 12:43:37 AM
Defiance finally gets a vote - and loses to previously winless Bluffton.

Gustavus Adolphus finally gets a vote (beating the Tommies, which probably would have put them in the top 25 if they had not lost on Saturday) - and loses their second straight.

What are we - the cover of Sports Illustrated?! :o :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 21, 2010, 01:02:33 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 21, 2010, 12:43:37 AM
Defiance finally gets a vote - and loses to previously winless Bluffton.

For the record, I'm the one wearing the egg on my face for slotting Defiance #25.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 21, 2010, 02:41:16 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 21, 2010, 01:02:33 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 21, 2010, 12:43:37 AM
Defiance finally gets a vote - and loses to previously winless Bluffton.

For the record, I'm the one wearing the egg on my face for slotting Defiance #25.

Greg, Plus k for owning up to it. I'm surprised Chuck didn't shout that one out from the rooftops (and I know Mr. Y NEVER outs a Posters' Poll voter) as payback for stealing Tyler Sanborn (as he claims) from him last year. :D ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 21, 2010, 08:29:55 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 21, 2010, 12:43:37 AM
Defiance finally gets a vote - and loses to previously winless Bluffton.

Gustavus Adolphus finally gets a vote (beating the Tommies, which probably would have put them in the top 25 if they had not lost on Saturday) - and loses their second straight.

What are we - the cover of Sports Illustrated?!
:o :D
ROTFLMAO! :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 22, 2010, 10:03:43 AM

So given the stark illogic of my previous rankings, I decided to do a mid course check up and rerank the teams from top to bottom now that the conference season has started to get underway.

I found not much changes near the top, Randy-Mac and VAWes bumped up a couple spots and WashU bumped down a few, but they teams themselves were pretty stable.

It was that middle area where everything was jumbled up.  I remember in the first poll that I felt there was little difference between 15-35.  Now there is a bit more of a difference.  I should have been giving Franklin & Marshall their due; Wheaton and Calvin were getting too much credit.

Hopefully this week will be a little better for me.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hugenerd on January 22, 2010, 01:40:48 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 22, 2010, 10:03:43 AM

So given the stark illogic of my previous rankings, I decided to do a mid course check up and rerank the teams from top to bottom now that the conference season has started to get underway.

I found not much changes near the top, Randy-Mac and VAWes bumped up a couple spots and WashU bumped down a few, but they teams themselves were pretty stable.

It was that middle area where everything was jumbled up.  I remember in the first poll that I felt there was little difference between 15-35.  Now there is a bit more of a difference.  I should have been giving Franklin & Marshall their due; Wheaton and Calvin were getting too much credit.

Hopefully this week will be a little better for me.

F&M also has 3 losses to unranked teams.  I bid them adieu from my poll last week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 22, 2010, 03:41:48 PM
Quote from: hugenerd on January 22, 2010, 01:40:48 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 22, 2010, 10:03:43 AM

So given the stark illogic of my previous rankings, I decided to do a mid course check up and rerank the teams from top to bottom now that the conference season has started to get underway.

I found not much changes near the top, Randy-Mac and VAWes bumped up a couple spots and WashU bumped down a few, but they teams themselves were pretty stable.

It was that middle area where everything was jumbled up.  I remember in the first poll that I felt there was little difference between 15-35.  Now there is a bit more of a difference.  I should have been giving Franklin & Marshall their due; Wheaton and Calvin were getting too much credit.

Hopefully this week will be a little better for me.

F&M also has 3 losses to unranked teams.  I bid them adieu from my poll last week.

Yeah, we're in a tough part of the schedule.  Some teams are starting to get a few losses in conference.  I know my rankings give more weight to a solid schedule and a few good wins (despite a couple losses) over a horrid schedule and a lot of wins.  CMS, Cabrini, and Medaille are suffering as a result.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 22, 2010, 03:42:53 PM
Quote from: hugenerd on January 22, 2010, 01:40:48 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 22, 2010, 10:03:43 AM

So given the stark illogic of my previous rankings, I decided to do a mid course check up and rerank the teams from top to bottom now that the conference season has started to get underway.

I found not much changes near the top, Randy-Mac and VAWes bumped up a couple spots and WashU bumped down a few, but they teams themselves were pretty stable.

It was that middle area where everything was jumbled up.  I remember in the first poll that I felt there was little difference between 15-35.  Now there is a bit more of a difference.  I should have been giving Franklin & Marshall their due; Wheaton and Calvin were getting too much credit.

Hopefully this week will be a little better for me.

F&M also has 3 losses to unranked teams.  I bid them adieu from my poll last week.

I dropped them from mine as well. Not only are those 3 teams they lost to unranked, 2 of them have losing records. Lebanon Valley 6-9 and McDaniel 7-8. A top 25 team has to win those games or they don't deserve to be in the top 25.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 22, 2010, 05:36:41 PM
Quote from: magicman on January 22, 2010, 03:42:53 PM
Quote from: hugenerd on January 22, 2010, 01:40:48 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 22, 2010, 10:03:43 AM

So given the stark illogic of my previous rankings, I decided to do a mid course check up and rerank the teams from top to bottom now that the conference season has started to get underway.

I found not much changes near the top, Randy-Mac and VAWes bumped up a couple spots and WashU bumped down a few, but they teams themselves were pretty stable.

It was that middle area where everything was jumbled up.  I remember in the first poll that I felt there was little difference between 15-35.  Now there is a bit more of a difference.  I should have been giving Franklin & Marshall their due; Wheaton and Calvin were getting too much credit.

Hopefully this week will be a little better for me.

F&M also has 3 losses to unranked teams.  I bid them adieu from my poll last week.

I dropped them from mine as well. Not only are those 3 teams they lost to unranked, 2 of them have losing records. Lebanon Valley 6-9 and McDaniel 7-8. A top 25 team has to win those games or they don't deserve to be in the top 25.

You have to look a little deeper than that.  LebValley was playing very well before Christmas (when F&M hadn't yet found their stride).  Plus, the F&M loss last week seems to have really lit a fire under them.  The two games following have been some of their best results of the year (including a rematch win over McDaniel).

When you get below #15 on the rankings, these teams all have some gaping holes.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 22, 2010, 11:37:00 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 22, 2010, 10:03:43 AM

So given the stark illogic of my previous rankings, I decided to do a mid course check up and rerank the teams from top to bottom now that the conference season has started to get underway.

I found not much changes near the top, Randy-Mac and VAWes bumped up a couple spots and WashU bumped down a few, but they teams themselves were pretty stable.

It was that middle area where everything was jumbled up.  I remember in the first poll that I felt there was little difference between 15-35.  Now there is a bit more of a difference.  I should have been giving Franklin & Marshall their due; Wheaton and Calvin were getting too much credit.

Hopefully this week will be a little better for me.

While I agree, did you have to come to that conclusion right after they beat my Titans! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 23, 2010, 09:18:07 PM

I think I've decided to overlook the Eastern Mennonite loss.  I've spent some time this second half contemplating where I'd put them with a loss.

This is a road loss to a conference opponent and it's not a blowout.  It also comes directly before a rematch with the only team that had beaten them to this point.  Easy game in.

It also marks their first d3 loss.  Every other team has this same one loss.  I will drop EMU one spot, below Guilford, but I'm still pretty confident in them (at least as confident as I was before tonight).

E Mennonite died by the three tonight, which is cause for concern, and I'm not sure what to make of 68 combined fouls, but you still have to respect the body of work thus far.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 24, 2010, 01:10:53 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 23, 2010, 09:18:07 PM

I think I've decided to overlook the Eastern Mennonite loss.  I've spent some time this second half contemplating where I'd put them with a loss.

This is a road loss to a conference opponent and it's not a blowout.  It also comes directly before a rematch with the only team that had beaten them to this point.  Easy game in.

It also marks their first d3 loss.  Every other team has this same one loss.  I will drop EMU one spot, below Guilford, but I'm still pretty confident in them (at least as confident as I was before tonight).

E Mennonite died by the three tonight, which is cause for concern, and I'm not sure what to make of 68 combined fouls, but you still have to respect the body of work thus far.

And as was mentioned on the Top 25 board, 68 fouls called in the game (33 and 35).  Eastern Mennonite has been averaging 17 personal fouls a game and their opponents have been averaging 20. Saturday's game had 83% more fouls called than normal. Hate to play (or watch) a game where the whistles never stop.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 24, 2010, 02:32:02 PM

I'm taking nominations for the 25th spot on my ballot this week.  I'm very, very undecided.

Amherst is sitting there right now with CMS, Wittenberg, Brandeis, and Cabrini as possibilities.

I can't find a single team I want to back at #25.  Suggestions?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 24, 2010, 04:04:38 PM

Would I take too much crap for putting Eau Claire at #25?  They at least appear like they want to win some games.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 24, 2010, 04:11:06 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 24, 2010, 04:04:38 PM

Would I take too much crap for putting Eau Claire at #25?  They at least appear like they want to win some games.

11-6 overall, 4-5 in the WIAC, seems like quite a stretch, but you'd get no crap from me.  They do have a win over UWW.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 24, 2010, 04:28:48 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 24, 2010, 02:32:02 PM

I'm taking nominations for the 25th spot on my ballot this week.  I'm very, very undecided.

Amherst is sitting there right now with CMS, Wittenberg, Brandeis, and Cabrini as possibilities.

I can't find a single team I want to back at #25.  Suggestions?

You mentioned before that you were reconsidering your Calvin ranking. Are you going to drop them out completely or just move them down a bit? I am strongly considering the Calvin Knights in my 25 this week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 24, 2010, 04:30:00 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 24, 2010, 04:28:48 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 24, 2010, 02:32:02 PM

I'm taking nominations for the 25th spot on my ballot this week.  I'm very, very undecided.

Amherst is sitting there right now with CMS, Wittenberg, Brandeis, and Cabrini as possibilities.

I can't find a single team I want to back at #25.  Suggestions?

You mentioned before that you were reconsidering your Calvin ranking. Are you going to drop them out completely or just move them down a bit? I am strongly considering the Calvin Knights in my 25 this week.

I have them down at about #35, although with all the losses the past few days, they might not be a bad choice.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 24, 2010, 06:22:02 PM
There are currently only 5 teams ranked with more than 2 losses...........4 with 3 losses and 1 with 4 losses.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: stag44 on January 24, 2010, 06:36:22 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 24, 2010, 02:32:02 PM

I'm taking nominations for the 25th spot on my ballot this week.  I'm very, very undecided.

Amherst is sitting there right now with CMS, Wittenberg, Brandeis, and Cabrini as possibilities.

I can't find a single team I want to back at #25.  Suggestions?

I think CMS is deserving for a top 25 vote. Since the start of the season and 2 losses to Willamette and St. Olaf, they have not lost to a D3 team (only loss was to Concordia (NAIA-1, #2 nationally) and won AT Chapman. They are 5-0 in conference now, with a big game vs Pomona on Wednesday for first place. They have shown improvement and I would put them in a top 25
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 24, 2010, 08:05:13 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 24, 2010, 04:04:38 PM

Would I take too much crap for putting Eau Claire at #25?  They at least appear like they want to win some games.

You're Captain Outlier, man. We expect weirdness from your ballot. ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 24, 2010, 08:54:22 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 24, 2010, 04:04:38 PM

Would I take too much crap for putting Eau Claire at #25?  They at least appear like they want to win some games.

Um... I'll let my previous post on the top 25 board speak for me...

Quote from: PointSpecial on January 22, 2010, 05:53:03 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on January 22, 2010, 05:00:32 PM
Eau Claire and Stevens Point used to be big rivals, especially in their NAIA days.  Wednesday, Point beat Eau Claire for the 19th straight time.

I still think there's plenty of rivalry between Point and Eau Claire...  I remember when this streak started, back in 01-02.  It was actually Coach Bennett's first victory at the Zorn (it was his 6th try).  Since that year, though, it's been all Point, and EC hasn't finished higher than 5th and hasn't had a winning record in the league. 

01-02 T 8th (missed conference tournament)
02-03 6th
03-04 8th
04-05 6th
05-06 8th
06-07 8th
07-08 7th
08-09 5th

I've got no love for the Blugolds... I can find it in my heart to root for just about every other WIAC team (even Platteville, which has been a stretch), but I haven't shed a tear for the recent plight of Eau Claire!

EC is currently in a 4-way tie for 4th in conference at 4-5.  Personally, I would forgo putting them 25th (or 24th for that matter) but that's for you to decide.

But would I give you crap?  For certain!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 24, 2010, 10:37:03 PM
Quote from: stag44 on January 24, 2010, 06:36:22 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 24, 2010, 02:32:02 PM

I'm taking nominations for the 25th spot on my ballot this week.  I'm very, very undecided.

Amherst is sitting there right now with CMS, Wittenberg, Brandeis, and Cabrini as possibilities.

I can't find a single team I want to back at #25.  Suggestions?

I think CMS is deserving for a top 25 vote. Since the start of the season and 2 losses to Willamette and St. Olaf, they have not lost to a D3 team (only loss was to Concordia (NAIA-1, #2 nationally) and won AT Chapman. They are 5-0 in conference now, with a big game vs Pomona on Wednesday for first place. They have shown improvement and I would put them in a top 25

We have a winner.  My ballot is in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 24, 2010, 11:46:11 PM
Three ballots in already - and an oddity (probably of interest only to me): no #25s so far are orphans! ;)  There's so far an orphaned 20, 21, 22, two 23s, and a 24, but all 3 25s were listed on another ballot (even yours, HF ;D).

And only two ballots have any team more than 5 spots from one or another of the others (the orphaned 20, of course, plus one other).  Though my gut hunch is the orphaned 21 and 22 would also be more than 5 spots away from the other two.

At least for these first three, a rough consensus seems to be there despite the losses of the last two weeks.



Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 25, 2010, 05:38:04 PM
Six ballots now in, and some VERY tight races!  There is a tie for 6th, and 4 teams within ONE point of each other for the final spot in the top ten.

It's been several hours now since anyone has made me work - I'm bored! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 25, 2010, 11:22:15 PM
Woo Hoo - 12 ballots ties the PP record! ;D

There's still over 18 hours to break it!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 26, 2010, 01:04:20 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 25, 2010, 11:22:15 PM
Woo Hoo - 12 ballots ties the PP record! ;D

There's still over 18 hours to break it!

Sounds like you've been working the phone lines. 8-)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 26, 2010, 01:04:48 AM
Let's hope these aren't one-ballot wonders.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 26, 2010, 09:25:54 AM

The official poll is out now.  There are only three teams I didn't name in my poll and all three of the ones I replaced them with are in the top 6 of ORV.  I feel like I'm either selling out or right on the mark.  Not sure which.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 26, 2010, 09:51:24 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 26, 2010, 09:25:54 AM

The official poll is out now.  There are only three teams I didn't name in my poll and all three of the ones I replaced them with are in the top 6 of ORV.  I feel like I'm either selling out or right on the mark.  Not sure which.

Sell out!

Freedom, no compromise!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 26, 2010, 12:53:06 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 26, 2010, 09:25:54 AM

The official poll is out now.  There are only three teams I didn't name in my poll and all three of the ones I replaced them with are in the top 6 of ORV.  I feel like I'm either selling out or right on the mark.  Not sure which.

This disappoints me, for some reason.

Can we at least hope that you'll live up to your Captain Outlier moniker by bending the curve in terms of team placement within the Top 25?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 26, 2010, 04:38:31 PM
We have a new record - 13 ballots!  Any more in the pipeline?

I'll hold off until 6 (est), or later if someone needs time.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 26, 2010, 06:53:41 PM
POSTERS' POLL, Jan. 24, 2010

1.  UWSP          325 (unanimous)
2.  Guilford       309 (2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,3,4)
3.  Williams      289 (2,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,4,4,6,6,8)
4.  UWW           277 (3,3,4,4,4,4,4,5,5,5,6,7,7)
5.  WashU        258 (2,3,4,5,5,5,6,6,6,8,9,9,12)
6.  VaWes        246 (4,5,5,5,6,6,7,7,8,8,8,11,12)
7.  EMU             245 (3,3,4,5,5,7,8,8,8,9,11,11,11)
8.  RandyMac    231 (4,5,7,8,8,8,8,9,9,10,10,10,11)
9.  St.Thomas    220 (6,6,7,7,9,9,9,9,10,11,11,12,12)
10 Midd             206 (5,6,7,7,8,9,10,10,12,13,13,15,17)
11 Anderson     198 (7,7,10,10,10,10,10,11,12,12,13,13,15)
12 Whitworth    186 (4,7,10,10,11,12,12,12,13,13,13,15,16)
13 St.Norbert    174 (6,11,11,11,12,13,13,13,14,14,14,15,17)
14 MIT               159 (6,9,12,12,14,14,14,15,15,15,16,17,20)
15 WillyPat        128 (9,11,14,15,15,15,16,16,17,19,20,21,22)
16 Chapman      112 (9,13,14,16,16,16,17,19,19,20,20,21,-)
17 IWU               93 (13,14,17,17,17,17,18,19,19,21,22,25,-)
18 MissCol          81 (15,16,16,16,17,17,18,19,20,21,23,23,-)
19 UT-Dallas       79 (13,14,16,18,18,19,19,20,22,23,25,-,-)
20 F & M             54 (15,17,18,19,20,20,23,23,25,-,-,-,-)
21 Amherst        53 (14,15,18,20,20,21,21,-,-,-,-,-,-)
22 Medaille        52 (14,16,18,18,19,23,24,24,-,-,-,-,-)
23 Carthage      35 (20,21,21,22,22,22,22,24,25,-,-,-,-)
24 Wooster       34 (18,19,22,22,23,24,24,24,25.-,-,-,-)
25 Brandeis       33 (18,19,21,21,23,23,25,25,-,-,-,-,-)

26 Maryville       27 (18,18,22,24,24,24,25)
27 St. Mary's     21 (18,20,22,23)
28 Cabrini         20 (17,19,23,25)
29 Albright       16 (14,22)
30 Wilma           13 (16,23)
31 Lyco              12 (20,22,24)
t32 CMS              5 (24,24,25)
t32 Calvin           5 (23,24)
t32 Colby            5 (21)
t32 GAC              5 (21)
t32 Rochester     5 (21)
t37 Oneonta        1
t37 Wheaton        1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 26, 2010, 07:01:46 PM

Wow, I only had one true outlier vote and that was for WashU.  Maybe I'm getting sick or something.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 26, 2010, 09:10:42 PM
I've just received a PM from a voter/poster asking me to list all the voters.  Since there was no request to broach confidentiality in terms of HOW they voted, I'm tempted to comply, but wanted to give voters the opportunity to opt out if you so choose.  If any voter does NOT want to be identified as a voter, PM me.

While HOW you voted remains entirely your call on whether to 'own up', I can't come up with a compelling reason to hide WHO votes (by poster handle only).  Pat doesn't reveal the identity of d3hoops.com voters, but I don't think we are in quite the same situation! ;)

If anyone does NOT wish to be identified, PM me.  Otherwise I'll post the list tomorrow evening.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: frodotwo on January 26, 2010, 09:17:14 PM
1.  UWSP          325      {1 }               (unanimous)
2.  Guilford       309       {2 }    (2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,3,4)
3.  Williams      289       {4 }     (2,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,4,4,6,6,8)
4.  UWW           277      {6 }     (3,3,4,4,4,4,4,5,5,5,6,7,7)
5.  WashU        258       {7}    (2,3,4,5,5,5,6,6,6,8,9,9,12)
6.  VaWes        246       {9 }   (4,5,5,5,6,6,7,7,8,8,8,11,12)
7.  EMU             245      {3 }     (3,3,4,5,5,7,8,8,8,9,11,11,11)
8.  RandyMac    231      {5 }     (4,5,7,8,8,8,8,9,9,10,10,10,11)
9.  St.Thomas    220     {10}    (6,6,7,7,9,9,9,9,10,11,11,12,12)
10 Midd             206     {12}   (5,6,7,7,8,9,10,10,12,13,13,15,17)
11 Anderson     198     {11}    (7,7,10,10,10,10,10,11,12,12,13,13,15)
12 Whitworth    186     {13}   (4,7,10,10,11,12,12,12,13,13,13,15,16)
13 St.Norbert    174     {14}  (6,11,11,11,12,13,13,13,14,14,14,15,17)
14 MIT               159      {8}   (6,9,12,12,14,14,14,15,15,15,16,17,20)
15 WillyPat        128     {19}   (9,11,14,15,15,15,16,16,17,19,20,21,22)
16 Chapman      112     {17}    (9,13,14,16,16,16,17,19,19,20,20,21,-)
17 IWU               93      {15}    (13,14,17,17,17,17,18,19,19,21,22,25,-)
18 MissCol          81      {18}    (15,16,16,16,17,17,18,19,20,21,23,23,-)
19 UT-Dallas       79      {20}    (13,14,16,18,18,19,19,20,22,23,25,-,-)
20 F & M             54      {24}     (15,17,18,19,20,20,23,23,25,-,-,-,-)
21 Amherst        53      {22}     (14,15,18,20,20,21,21,-,-,-,-,-,-)
22 Medaille        52      {23}    (14,16,18,18,19,23,24,24,-,-,-,-,-)
23 Carthage      35      {27}     (20,21,21,22,22,22,22,24,25,-,-,-,-)
24 Wooster       34       {28}     (18,19,22,22,23,24,24,24,25.-,-,-,-)
25 Brandeis       33       {16}    (18,19,21,21,23,23,25,25,-,-,-,-,-)

26 Maryville       27       {29}    (18,18,22,24,24,24,25)
27 St. Mary's     21       {21}    (18,20,22,23)
28 Cabrini         20       {35}    (17,19,23,25)
29 Albright        16       {30}    (14,22)
30 Wilma           13       {35}    (16,23)
31 Lyco              12      {34}  (20,22,24)
t32 CMS              5       {NV}                           (24,24,25)
t32 Calvin           5        {32}   (23,24)
t32 Colby            5       {NV}                           (21)
t32 GAC              5        {37}    (21)
t32 Rochester     5        {26}    (21)
t37 Oneonta        1       {37}
t37 Wheaton        1      {30}

Dropped out:  #25 UW-LaX; #33 Wittenburg; #37 Defiance; #37 Linfield

Last week's rankings added


Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: frodotwo on January 26, 2010, 09:20:30 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 26, 2010, 09:10:42 PM
I've just received a PM from a voter/poster asking me to list all the voters.  Since there was no request to broach confidentiality in terms of HOW they voted, I'm tempted to comply, but wanted to give voters the opportunity to opt out if you so choose.  If any voter does NOT want to be identified as a voter, PM me.

While HOW you voted remains entirely your call on whether to 'own up', I can't come up with a compelling reason to hide WHO votes (by poster handle only).  Pat doesn't reveal the identity of d3hoops.com voters, but I don't think we are in quite the same situation! ;)

If anyone does NOT wish to be identified, PM me.  Otherwise I'll post the list tomorrow evening.

As long as we don't have to include pics ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 26, 2010, 10:01:08 PM
4 ODAC teams in the top 8 is wrong, but I just have a general angst against that sort of thing.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 26, 2010, 10:07:23 PM
No love for the OAC either.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 26, 2010, 10:11:33 PM
Quote from: sac on January 26, 2010, 10:01:08 PM
4 ODAC teams in the top 8 is wrong, but I just have a general angst against that sort of thing.

But at least it wasn't the CCIW - eh, sac! ;D

I confess, all 4 ODAC teams in the top 8 on my ballot - until Bridgewater (ODAC) beat EMU, none of the four had ever lost to a d3 team. :o

For the record, IWU was the same place on my ballot as in the final PP poll (though I had #23 Carthage at #21, but I am NOT the vote for Wheaton) - no home cookin' here! :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 26, 2010, 10:15:54 PM
Quote from: frodotwo on January 26, 2010, 09:20:30 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 26, 2010, 09:10:42 PM
I've just received a PM from a voter/poster asking me to list all the voters.  Since there was no request to broach confidentiality in terms of HOW they voted, I'm tempted to comply, but wanted to give voters the opportunity to opt out if you so choose.  If any voter does NOT want to be identified as a voter, PM me.

While HOW you voted remains entirely your call on whether to 'own up', I can't come up with a compelling reason to hide WHO votes (by poster handle only).  Pat doesn't reveal the identity of d3hoops.com voters, but I don't think we are in quite the same situation! ;)

If anyone does NOT wish to be identified, PM me.  Otherwise I'll post the list tomorrow evening.

As long as we don't have to include pics ;D

I have enough trouble with the paparazzi - why give 'em a freebie?! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: dc_has_been on January 27, 2010, 12:02:27 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 26, 2010, 09:10:42 PM
I've just received a PM from a voter/poster asking me to list all the voters.  Since there was no request to broach confidentiality in terms of HOW they voted, I'm tempted to comply, but wanted to give voters the opportunity to opt out if you so choose.  If any voter does NOT want to be identified as a voter, PM me.

While HOW you voted remains entirely your call on whether to 'own up', I can't come up with a compelling reason to hide WHO votes (by poster handle only).  Pat doesn't reveal the identity of d3hoops.com voters, but I don't think we are in quite the same situation! ;)

If anyone does NOT wish to be identified, PM me.  Otherwise I'll post the list tomorrow evening.
Even though this was my first time voter, long time reader, I would think it would be good to get some insight on some posters picks.  For example, I am curious on picks for MIT considering they have a range from 6 to 20 & Chapman, 9 to not being rated (I was the one who didn't rank them)?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 27, 2010, 12:07:50 AM
Quote from: dc_has_been on January 27, 2010, 12:02:27 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 26, 2010, 09:10:42 PM
I've just received a PM from a voter/poster asking me to list all the voters.  Since there was no request to broach confidentiality in terms of HOW they voted, I'm tempted to comply, but wanted to give voters the opportunity to opt out if you so choose.  If any voter does NOT want to be identified as a voter, PM me.

While HOW you voted remains entirely your call on whether to 'own up', I can't come up with a compelling reason to hide WHO votes (by poster handle only).  Pat doesn't reveal the identity of d3hoops.com voters, but I don't think we are in quite the same situation! ;)

If anyone does NOT wish to be identified, PM me.  Otherwise I'll post the list tomorrow evening.
Even though this was my first time voter, long time reader, I would think it would be good to get some insight on some posters picks.  For example, I am curious on picks for MIT considering they have a range from 6 to 20 & Chapman, 9 to not being rated (I was the one who didn't rank them)?

I'm luke warm on both, and I'm on the low end of the spectrum for both.   Northeast and far western teams are always difficult to gauge for me.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 27, 2010, 12:34:18 AM
Quote from: sac on January 27, 2010, 12:07:50 AM
Quote from: dc_has_been on January 27, 2010, 12:02:27 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 26, 2010, 09:10:42 PM
I've just received a PM from a voter/poster asking me to list all the voters.  Since there was no request to broach confidentiality in terms of HOW they voted, I'm tempted to comply, but wanted to give voters the opportunity to opt out if you so choose.  If any voter does NOT want to be identified as a voter, PM me.

While HOW you voted remains entirely your call on whether to 'own up', I can't come up with a compelling reason to hide WHO votes (by poster handle only).  Pat doesn't reveal the identity of d3hoops.com voters, but I don't think we are in quite the same situation! ;)

If anyone does NOT wish to be identified, PM me.  Otherwise I'll post the list tomorrow evening.
Even though this was my first time voter, long time reader, I would think it would be good to get some insight on some posters picks.  For example, I am curious on picks for MIT considering they have a range from 6 to 20 & Chapman, 9 to not being rated (I was the one who didn't rank them)?

I'm luke warm on both, and I'm on the low end of the spectrum for both.   Northeast and far western teams are always difficult to gauge for me.
They are hard for me to judge also.

The Northeast has been a relatively weak region outside the NESCAC.  The OWP numbers are buoyed by great records on very average teams, IMHO.

The far west teams usually have to go thru the bracket of death and so really good teams fly 1500 miles and two time zones east to play against the hometown team.  That is not a fair comparison.  I cannot find more than 20 teams that I really feel good about.

The Mid-Atlantic teams are have not been strong recently either.

I can see the ODAC having one of those magical seasons.  The ASC and SCAC are not strong enough to have a breakout team to cut into the Pool C calculations either.  ODAC teams will be coming up at the table in rapid succession.  I predict 2 Pool C bids from the ODAC this year.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 27, 2010, 01:04:03 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 27, 2010, 12:34:18 AM
Quote from: sac on January 27, 2010, 12:07:50 AM
Quote from: dc_has_been on January 27, 2010, 12:02:27 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 26, 2010, 09:10:42 PM
I've just received a PM from a voter/poster asking me to list all the voters.  Since there was no request to broach confidentiality in terms of HOW they voted, I'm tempted to comply, but wanted to give voters the opportunity to opt out if you so choose.  If any voter does NOT want to be identified as a voter, PM me.

While HOW you voted remains entirely your call on whether to 'own up', I can't come up with a compelling reason to hide WHO votes (by poster handle only).  Pat doesn't reveal the identity of d3hoops.com voters, but I don't think we are in quite the same situation! ;)

If anyone does NOT wish to be identified, PM me.  Otherwise I'll post the list tomorrow evening.
Even though this was my first time voter, long time reader, I would think it would be good to get some insight on some posters picks.  For example, I am curious on picks for MIT considering they have a range from 6 to 20 & Chapman, 9 to not being rated (I was the one who didn't rank them)?

I'm luke warm on both, and I'm on the low end of the spectrum for both.   Northeast and far western teams are always difficult to gauge for me.
They are hard for me to judge also.

The Northeast has been a relatively weak region outside the NESCAC.  The OWP numbers are buoyed by great records on very average teams, IMHO.

The far west teams usually have to go thru the bracket of death and so really good teams fly 1500 miles and two time zones east to play against the hometown team.  That is not a fair comparison.  I cannot find more than 20 teams that I really feel good about.

The Mid-Atlantic teams are have not been strong recently either.

I can see the ODAC having one of those magical seasons.  The ASC and SCAC are not strong enough to have a breakout team to cut into the Pool C calculations either.  ODAC teams will be coming up at the table in rapid succession.  I predict 2 Pool C bids from the ODAC this year.

Agreed.  Though unless one of them falls apart in the next month, they may well deserve THREE Pool C bids.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 27, 2010, 10:16:11 AM
Quote from: sac on January 26, 2010, 10:01:08 PM
4 ODAC teams in the top 8 is wrong, but I just have a general angst against that sort of thing.

I really don't look at conferences, per se. I look at their power ratings and SOS, and no not the NCAA calculations of OWP and OOWP thanks to the emphasis on regionality.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: dc_has_been on January 27, 2010, 11:35:45 AM
POSTERS' POLL, Jan. 24, 2010
So should this play a part in a teams ranking?  Looking at this, makes me regret a few of my picks now and where I ranked them. 
Team                SOS
1.  UWSP           23
2.  Guilford        187
3.  Williams       385
4.  UWW             8
5.  WashU         32
6.  VaWes         62
7.  EMU             150
8.  RandyMac    106
9.  St.Thomas     45
10 Midd             197
11 Anderson     338
12 Whitworth    117
13 St.Norbert    377
14 MIT               237
15 WillyPat        184
16 Chapman      352
17 IWU                72
18 MissCol          330
19 UT-Dallas       270
20 F & M             249
21 Amherst        314
22 Medaille        300
23 Carthage       38
24 Wooster       217
25 Brandeis        93

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 27, 2010, 12:38:51 PM

Strength of Schedule is important, although less important now than at the end of the season.  All along I've tried to favor teams who have played tough competition and also teams who have gone on the road when they didn't have to do so.  However, at some point, wins have to take precedent.

If one team is 80th in SOS with a 12-4 record and another team is 250th in SOS with a 15-1 record, at some point that has to begin to make a difference.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: dc_has_been on January 27, 2010, 01:04:40 PM
Hoops Fan, Thanks for the feedback.  You make a great point in that regard.  I am going to take more time in next weeks vote.  One thing I do know is Bates & Tufts are looking a lot better to me now for next weeks poll  ;).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 27, 2010, 01:13:41 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 27, 2010, 12:38:51 PM

Strength of Schedule is important, although less important now than at the end of the season.  All along I've tried to favor teams who have played tough competition and also teams who have gone on the road when they didn't have to do so.  However, at some point, wins have to take precedent.

If one team is 80th in SOS with a 12-4 record and another team is 250th in SOS with a 15-1 record, at some point that has to begin to make a difference.

That's why I like RPI, it defines the point at which it matters. SOS and WP always need to be taken in conjunction with each other in order for either to have any meaning.

I think for next year I'm going to try to calculate SOS and RPI for all d3 competition, as well as in-region. It will at least help me out on my PP ballots.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 27, 2010, 01:45:47 PM
Not a big fan of RPI or the the various SOS calculations because they all make the assumption that the strength of regions or competition is the same.........this is simply not the case. 

You'll never convince me that a team from a couple regions out East with a gaudy record is better than the 3rd or even 4th best team from the WIAC or CCIW or any number of other teams in the Midwest who have been beaten up by simply playing in a tougher region.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hugenerd on January 27, 2010, 01:54:46 PM
Quote from: sac on January 27, 2010, 01:45:47 PM
Not a big fan of RPI or the the various SOS calculations because they all make the assumption that the strength of regions or competition is the same.........this is simply not the case.  

You'll never convince me that a team from a couple regions out East with a gaudy record is better than the 3rd or even 4th best team from the WIAC or CCIW or any number of other teams in the Midwest who have been beaten up by simply playing in a tougher region.

What a homerific comment.  This year isnt the year to be arguing the strength of the CCIW or the Midwest, in my opinion.   I think there may be less "top teams" in certain regions (possibly east, atlantic, or middle-atlantic), but I think all of these top teams can play with the top teams in other regions.  We have a very limited sample size of games, but we have already seen the 4th or 5th best team in the NE (Brandeis) beat the top team in the midwest on the road (WashU) and then the 4th or 5th best team in the East (NYU) also nearly knock them off on the road.  Maybe in year's past there would be more evidence to support your stance, but this year, as is the case in all years, we dont have many games to prove that and the results we do have do not suggest what you are saying is true.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 27, 2010, 02:02:54 PM
Quote from: sac on January 27, 2010, 01:45:47 PM
Not a big fan of RPI or the the various SOS calculations because they all make the assumption that the strength of regions or competition is the same.........this is simply not the case. 

You'll never convince me that a team from a couple regions out East with a gaudy record is better than the 3rd or even 4th best team from the WIAC or CCIW or any number of other teams in the Midwest who have been beaten up by simply playing in a tougher region.

I don't think that it makes any 'assumptions', but pockets of teams that are sufficientlly separated or isolated with very little intermixing from the rest of the country can pop up, especially with the in-region WP and SOS. I think that's why many people would like to see the selection crew use those numbers from all d3 competition.

FWIW, in this year's in-region RPI calculations there's 3 WIAC schools before you get to any NE or E or A teams, and 3 CCIW schools above undefeated Williams. I don't really see  'assumptions' there. I'll admit that a pocket around some MACC schools seems to have formed, but other than that, I don't see anything that would bother anyone.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 27, 2010, 02:05:42 PM
My own eyes have seen two Mid Atlantic representatives in the final four who wouldn't have advanced past the 1st or 2nd round in the Midwest, West or Great Lakes, both only had 1 or 2 losses on the year.............sorry but thats just the truth.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 27, 2010, 02:34:30 PM
Quote from: sac on January 27, 2010, 02:05:42 PM
My own eyes have seen two Mid Atlantic representatives in the final four who wouldn't have advanced past the 1st or 2nd round in the Midwest, West or Great Lakes, both only had 1 or 2 losses on the year.............sorry but thats just the truth.

It sounds like your issue is more with the NCAA distributing tournament matchups in regional manner, and less with RPI and/or SOS.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Titan Q on January 27, 2010, 02:50:38 PM
Here is how the current Massey top 25 and 50 shakes out by region...

Top 25
West:  9 (36%)
Midwest: 5 (20%)
South: 5 (20%)
Mid-Atlantic: 2 (8%)
Northeast: 1 (4%)
Independent: 1 (4%)
Atlantic: 1 (4%)
Great Lakes: 1 (4%)

Top 50
West: 19 (38%)
South: 8 (16%)
Midwest: 7 (14%)
Great Lakes: 5 (10%)
Northeast: 4 (8%)
Mid-Atlantic: 3 (6%)
Atlantic: 2 (4%)
East: 1 (2%)   
Independent: 1 (2%)


Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 27, 2010, 02:50:57 PM
No its with using RPI

2008

Ursinas 22-1

Washington U  16-5

If you played both of these teams, you get far more credit for playing Ursinas, yet there was little doubt in anyone's mind at Salem in 2008 that Washington was far and away the better team.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 27, 2010, 03:10:09 PM
Quote from: sac on January 27, 2010, 02:50:57 PM
No its with using RPI

2008

Ursinas 22-1

Washington U  16-5

If you played both of these teams, you get far more credit for playing Ursinas, yet there was little doubt in anyone's mind at Salem in 2008 that Washington was far and away the better team.

Good thing teams play more than one game then!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 27, 2010, 03:20:28 PM
Quote from: dc_has_been on January 27, 2010, 01:04:40 PM
Hoops Fan, Thanks for the feedback.  You make a great point in that regard.  I am going to take more time in next weeks vote.  One thing I do know is Bates & Tufts are looking a lot better to me now for next weeks poll.

You may want to give the NE teams a second look.  I forget what boards I post this rant on, but the depth of field in the NE tends to give them higher SOS numbers each year.  With more teams the play, the best teams can avoid each other to some extent, thus providing more teams with better records and thus better SOS numbers across the region.

I'm a NE guy, but even I have to take some of the numbers with a grain of salt.  The top teams in the region can usually hold their own, but the talent level normally goes down faster than the numbers indicate.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 27, 2010, 03:23:43 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 27, 2010, 02:34:30 PM
Quote from: sac on January 27, 2010, 02:05:42 PM
My own eyes have seen two Mid Atlantic representatives in the final four who wouldn't have advanced past the 1st or 2nd round in the Midwest, West or Great Lakes, both only had 1 or 2 losses on the year.............sorry but thats just the truth.

It sounds like your issue is more with the NCAA distributing tournament matchups in regional manner, and less with RPI and/or SOS.

I agree.  Much of the reason these teams wouldn't advance as far in the West/MW/GL is because those regions have a surplus of good teams all clumped together.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 27, 2010, 03:44:34 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 27, 2010, 03:23:43 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 27, 2010, 02:34:30 PM
Quote from: sac on January 27, 2010, 02:05:42 PM
My own eyes have seen two Mid Atlantic representatives in the final four who wouldn't have advanced past the 1st or 2nd round in the Midwest, West or Great Lakes, both only had 1 or 2 losses on the year.............sorry but thats just the truth.

It sounds like your issue is more with the NCAA distributing tournament matchups in regional manner, and less with RPI and/or SOS.

I agree.  Much of the reason these teams wouldn't advance as far in the West/MW/GL is because those regions have a dearth of good teams all clumped together.

You mean "surplus," not "dearth," right? A dearth is a shortage.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: frodotwo on January 27, 2010, 04:09:57 PM
I think we all get enamored of teams from the power conferences, rightly so in most cases. But sometimes you just have to give the little feller his due once in a while. I look at Boise State football and all they seem to do is win, but are given barely any credit. They win the games in their conference. Voters continually disregard them at the start of every season and by the end of the year they are undefeated or have only one loss and rarely see the top ten. So I guess I'll admit to possibly "over rating" at least a couple of teams compared to other pollsters here, but all they do is beat who they play.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 27, 2010, 04:23:38 PM
Quote from: frodotwo on January 27, 2010, 04:09:57 PM
I think we all get enamored of teams from the power conferences, rightly so in most cases. But sometimes you just have to give the little feller his due once in a while. I look at Boise State football and all they seem to do is win, but are given barely any credit. They win the games in their conference. Voters continually disregard them at the start of every season and by the end of the year they are undefeated or have only one loss and rarely see the top ten. So I guess I'll admit to possibly "over rating" at least a couple of teams compared to other pollsters here, but all they do is beat who they play.

I don't really see that in the PP.  I had Anderson, MIT, Chapman, and Maryville all slightly higher on my ballot than they finished, but F&M and Medaille slightly lower (I listed St. Norbs right where they placed).  And we were quick to recognize that borderline power conference ODAC was THIS year THE power conference (including previously run-of-the-mill EMU).

It probably DOES take somewhat longer for a member of a weaker conference to be recognized, but I'm pretty confident that if they earn recognition, they will (eventually) get it.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 27, 2010, 04:34:07 PM

I think it also takes time.  Boise State got is due in the preseason poll this year and will again next year.

St. Norbert started pretty high this year, probably because the MWC has sent some very strong teams to the tournament for four or five years in a row now.

There are lesser known teams that come out of nowhere every season, but the power conferences have that name for a reason - they recruit well, have a track record of winning, and are generally pretty deep with talent.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 27, 2010, 05:05:26 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 27, 2010, 03:10:09 PM
Quote from: sac on January 27, 2010, 02:50:57 PM
No its with using RPI

2008

Ursinas 22-1

Washington U  16-5

If you played both of these teams, you get far more credit for playing Ursinas, yet there was little doubt in anyone's mind at Salem in 2008 that Washington was far and away the better team.

Good thing teams play more than one game then!

Washington U also had a higher RPI than Ursinus that year, so "on paper" Washington U was the better team.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 27, 2010, 06:30:53 PM
Quote from: frodotwo on January 27, 2010, 04:09:57 PM
I think we all get enamored of teams from the power conferences, rightly so in most cases. But sometimes you just have to give the little feller his due once in a while. I look at Boise State football and all they seem to do is win, but are given barely any credit. They win the games in their conference. Voters continually disregard them at the start of every season and by the end of the year they are undefeated or have only one loss and rarely see the top ten. So I guess I'll admit to possibly "over rating" at least a couple of teams compared to other pollsters here, but all they do is beat who they play.

I guess the question is WHICH little guy.  I look at Anderson, St. Norbert, and Whitworth.  WW has the best SOS... but it's possible that Norbert or Anderson is better.

The problem is, SNC and WW are going to be in the West this year, so they're going to have to go through the likes of Point, Whitewater, St. Thomas, etc...  So even though they might be the better little guy that Anderson, Anderson might go farther in the tournament due to bracket imbalance.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 27, 2010, 08:45:39 PM
#9 Randolph-Macon drops a 65-57 decision to Washington & Lee.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 27, 2010, 08:58:49 PM
#1 Stevens Point leads #5 Whitewater 36-21 at the half
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 27, 2010, 09:31:13 PM
Quote from: magicman on January 27, 2010, 08:45:39 PM
#9 Randolph-Macon drops a 65-57 decision to Washington & Lee.

Another nice win by W&L, to go along with their win over Emory (and their 3-point win over Otterbein ?    ???  Go figure.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 27, 2010, 09:31:58 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on January 27, 2010, 08:58:49 PM
#1 Stevens Point leads #5 Whitewater 36-21 at the half

And now trails 53-43 with 6:19 in the second half.  Wow.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 27, 2010, 09:36:17 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 27, 2010, 09:31:13 PM
Quote from: magicman on January 27, 2010, 08:45:39 PM
#9 Randolph-Macon drops a 65-57 decision to Washington & Lee.

Another nice win by W&L, to go along with their win over Emory (and their 3-point win over Otterbein ?    ???  Go figure.)

Otterbein ?  they are 4-14
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 27, 2010, 09:56:46 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on January 27, 2010, 09:31:58 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on January 27, 2010, 08:58:49 PM
#1 Stevens Point leads #5 Whitewater 36-21 at the half

And now trails 53-43 with 6:19 in the second half.  Wow.

Whitewater wins 61-58.  Point retook the lead 58-57 with :27 but WW scores quickly on the next possession.  Matt Moses turned it over trying to make something happen with :09.9, but Point only had 3 fouls and had to foul 4 times.  Dustin Mitchell nailed 2 FT's with :03.4 and Moses' half court shot didn't fall.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 27, 2010, 09:58:12 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on January 27, 2010, 09:56:46 PM
Whitewater wins 61-58.  Point retook the lead 58-57 with :27 but WW scores quickly on the next possession.  Matt Moses turned it over trying to make something happen with :09.9, but Point only had 3 fouls and had to foul 4 times.  Dustin Mitchell nailed 2 FT's with :03.4 and Moses' half court shot didn't fall.

So who's #1 now?

I think I'm just going to go ahead and award 5 teams #3 next week, and then resume with 6-25. Is that cool with everyone else?  ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 27, 2010, 10:05:58 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 27, 2010, 09:58:12 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on January 27, 2010, 09:56:46 PM
Whitewater wins 61-58.  Point retook the lead 58-57 with :27 but WW scores quickly on the next possession.  Matt Moses turned it over trying to make something happen with :09.9, but Point only had 3 fouls and had to foul 4 times.  Dustin Mitchell nailed 2 FT's with :03.4 and Moses' half court shot didn't fall.

So who's #1 now?

I think I'm just going to go ahead and award 5 teams #3 next week, and then resume with 6-25. Is that cool with everyone else?  ;)

If it isn't Stevens Point (which, even with tonight's result, I'm not convinced) it's probably Guilford. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 27, 2010, 10:23:23 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 27, 2010, 09:58:12 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on January 27, 2010, 09:56:46 PM
Whitewater wins 61-58.  Point retook the lead 58-57 with :27 but WW scores quickly on the next possession.  Matt Moses turned it over trying to make something happen with :09.9, but Point only had 3 fouls and had to foul 4 times.  Dustin Mitchell nailed 2 FT's with :03.4 and Moses' half court shot didn't fall.

So who's #1 now?

I think I'm just going to go ahead and award 5 teams #3 next week, and then resume with 6-25. Is that cool with everyone else?  ;)

Well I've had Guilford #2 on my poll for the past 2 weeks so now it's their turn to be in the catbird seat. Besides they were my pick in the survivors pool and though they didn't win it, I believe, they now have the longest winning streak of any team in the top 10. And,with the exception of Willie Paterson, the longest in all of D3. Of course that's all dependent on whether they beat Randy-Macon on Saturday afternoon.  
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 27, 2010, 10:45:51 PM
IF Guilford beats Randy Mac, I would certainly assume they'd take over #1 in the PP.  They were a nearly unanimous #2 this week.  Some voters might jump UWW past them, but the Quakers would probably prevail (after all, beating RMC would be nearly as impressive as beating UWSP, despite RMC's inexplicable home loss to Washington and Lee tonite).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 27, 2010, 11:11:01 PM

I think Guilford's probably earned it.  I'm changing my process up and doing a full rating Sunday afternoon this week, so I'll know for sure then, but I'm not counting this loss tonight against Point much at all.

I think they can be the best team in the country and just not be able to get one over on Whitewater.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 28, 2010, 12:29:11 AM
To clarify a ways back, when I say SOS - I don't mean the NCAA SOS, I mean Massey SOS (or something like Sagarin or Pomeroy).

When I wasn't out pounding the pavement and consulting, and being a Dad, I used to run some of my own power rankings. Not so much time now.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: dc_has_been on January 28, 2010, 01:04:27 AM
1, 9, and 10 on the top 25 drop a game tonight.  Anderson and Randy Mac lose on the road to decent teams while UWSP loses to a very good UWW team at SP's home court. 
Still some huge games coming up for some top 25 teams.  Looks like the shake up has already started for next poll.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 28, 2010, 01:26:43 AM
That's what keeps being a voter interesting! :P

As of today my ballot would read: 1. Guilford  2. UWW  3. TBD (UWSP?)

By Sunday, who the hell knows?! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: hasanova on January 28, 2010, 10:56:06 AM
Quote from: dc_has_been on January 28, 2010, 01:04:27 AM
1, 9, and 10 on the top 25 drop a game tonight.  Anderson and Randy Mac lose on the road to decent teams while UWSP loses to a very good UWW team at SP's home court. 
Still some huge games coming up for some top 25 teams.  Looks like the shake up has already started for next poll.
Actually, as noted elsewhere, RMC lost at home to W&L - the first time that's happened since 1959!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: hasanova on January 28, 2010, 10:58:03 AM
Quote from: magicman on January 27, 2010, 10:23:23 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 27, 2010, 09:58:12 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on January 27, 2010, 09:56:46 PM
Whitewater wins 61-58.  Point retook the lead 58-57 with :27 but WW scores quickly on the next possession.  Matt Moses turned it over trying to make something happen with :09.9, but Point only had 3 fouls and had to foul 4 times.  Dustin Mitchell nailed 2 FT's with :03.4 and Moses' half court shot didn't fall.

So who's #1 now?

I think I'm just going to go ahead and award 5 teams #3 next week, and then resume with 6-25. Is that cool with everyone else?  ;)

Well I've had Guilford #2 on my poll for the past 2 weeks so now it's their turn to be in the catbird seat. Besides they were my pick in the survivors pool and though they didn't win it, I believe, they now have the longest winning streak of any team in the top 10. And,with the exception of Willie Paterson, the longest in all of D3. Of course that's all dependent on whether they beat Randy-Macon on Saturday afternoon.  
Since their 71-68 loss at Virginia Wesleyan on Dec. 5, the Quakers have won 13 in a row.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pbrooks3 on January 28, 2010, 10:25:23 PM
I'll definitely go with the Quakers at #1 should they win Saturday. Really think it's a tossup between Stevens Point and Whitewater in my poll if Guilford goes down.  I'm not particularly bullish on Wash U at the moment. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: scout on January 30, 2010, 10:14:53 PM
So after this past week... Any of you considering new names near the bottom of the Top 25?

Not sure if I'll pull the trigger, but we'll see.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hugenerd on January 30, 2010, 11:02:30 PM
I would say Carthage is a good choice.  Colby may be another team to look at.

Also, after they beat WashU tomorrow, I think you could put Emory in there too.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 30, 2010, 11:36:37 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 28, 2010, 01:26:43 AM
That's what keeps being a voter interesting! :P

As of today my ballot would read: 1. Guilford  2. UWW  3. TBD (UWSP?)

By Sunday, who the hell knows?! ;D

UW-Stout 95, UWW 77 (AT Whitewater) - oopsy!

Well, I know #1.  Everything else is a mystery! ::)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hugenerd on January 30, 2010, 11:53:53 PM
I agree.  These weeks results are rather strange.

How do you justify putting Stevens Point ahead of Whitewater and then how do you not drop Whitewater after todays game?

Also in the top 12:

Middlebury loses by 15 at home.

RMC lost twice this week, including 4 of its last 6.

Anderson got beat badly by a team receiving no votes.

EMU takes a bad loss for the second time in 3 games.

I also think WashU is way overrated right now, but who do you replace them with?  If you have watched their games recently they dont look crisp. Also, none of those "big" wins they had early in the season seem that big anymore.  The highest ranked opponent they have beaten is #21 IWU, and they are sure to drop now that they lost by 25 to Carthage tonight.

I think there will be a lot of scatter in top 10 voting this week.  I am surely uncertain about how to order the teams.

Near the bottom of the poll, I think Amherst, IWU, Miss. Coll. will fall out.  That means a few teams will enter the poll.  My best guess is that Carthage will make it in.  I am not sure about the other two, I think Emory can break the top 25 if they beat WashU tomorrow but for the other spot, 3 of the 4 top ORV teams lost this week.  It is going to be a coinflip.  I think Colby, at 15-2, deserves a look out of the NESCAC, but there will definitely be some mixed opinions there as well.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 31, 2010, 12:24:56 AM
Yeah, Colby has kinda snuck up on people.  They will definitely be somewhere in my top 25 this week, though with games @Williams and @Middlebury next weekend, they will either jump WAY up or fall back off the ballot! ;)

While I still have a nagging feeling they will be overrated, I imagine I'll go with Williams #2 (I already had them #3 last week, but UWW would have jumped them) - I can't find any real alternative.

Just 23 places to go! ::)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 31, 2010, 01:12:54 AM

Captain Outlier will return this week.  After all the losses and mix-up combined with my lack of faith in more than a handful of teams, I went through my remaining 75 squads and re-ranked their entire seasons again.  As usual I weighted recent performance more highly than early season results.

What I'm left with is a list of 59 schools, the Top 25 of which will be wacky, when compared to the rest of the ballots.  That I am almost certain about.

Hopefully the UAA games tomorrow don't mess with too much.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 31, 2010, 03:51:05 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 31, 2010, 01:12:54 AM
Captain Outlier will return this week...As usual I weighted recent performance more highly than early season results.

So Whitworth and William Patterson in your top5?  How much more highly?  May I suggest 420% and put them at 3 and 4?   :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: WUPHF on January 31, 2010, 05:07:38 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on January 31, 2010, 03:51:05 PM
Whitworth and William Patterson in your top5?  How much more highly?  May I suggest 420% and put them at 3 and 4?   :D

With big wins over national powerhouses Willamette and Lewis and Clark, I am sure everyone is going to have Whitworth in their top 5.   :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 31, 2010, 07:21:07 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on January 31, 2010, 03:51:05 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 31, 2010, 01:12:54 AM
Captain Outlier will return this week...As usual I weighted recent performance more highly than early season results.
So Whitworth and William Patterson in your top5?

Good Lord.  Did I accidentally post my log-in info on the board?  Prescient.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 31, 2010, 07:22:42 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on January 31, 2010, 03:51:05 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 31, 2010, 01:12:54 AM
Captain Outlier will return this week...As usual I weighted recent performance more highly than early season results.

So Whitworth and William Patterson in your top5?  How much more highly?  May I suggest 420% and put them at 3 and 4?

It's odd, though, that you would choose those teams.  I would guess other schools are benefiting from the weight on recent results much more.  Wooster, for example, or Carthage.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 31, 2010, 07:25:49 PM

For better or worse, my ballot is in.




Last team left off the list: Mary Hardin-Baylor.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 31, 2010, 08:26:58 PM
Mine is in.

I saw UMHB at McMurry and they looked very good on Thursday night.

McMurry needs to win at UMHB for us to have a chance to host the tourney, or even be a co-champs.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hugenerd on January 31, 2010, 10:09:23 PM
Maryville lost for the second time this week today.  I had to change my poll based on that.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 31, 2010, 10:36:43 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 31, 2010, 08:26:58 PM
Mine is in.

I saw UMHB at McMurry and they looked very good on Thursday night.

McMurry needs to win at UMHB for us to have a chance to host the tourney, or even be a co-champs.

Yeah, I was kind of glad they didn't make it into my poll before that game this week.  It will be a tough one.  I know having so many teams makes it difficult, but when does the ASC start to get notice as a "power" conference.  They've got four very good teams this year and at least as much parity as the NESCAC.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 01, 2010, 12:37:47 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 31, 2010, 10:36:43 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 31, 2010, 08:26:58 PM
Mine is in.

I saw UMHB at McMurry and they looked very good on Thursday night.

McMurry needs to win at UMHB for us to have a chance to host the tourney, or even be a co-champs.

Yeah, I was kind of glad they didn't make it into my poll before that game this week.  It will be a tough one.  I know having so many teams makes it difficult, but when does the ASC start to get notice as a "power" conference.  They've got four very good teams this year and at least as much parity as the NESCAC.

The ASC is still several years away from being considered a Power Conference for several reasons.

No dominant power in the conference.

Virtually no chance to host a Sectional, not a 27-2 McMurry in 2000; not Mississippi College in 2007.

Please remember that the conference tournament has been an 8-team affair since about 2005.  We are knocking off Pool C teams in the tourney, because we just aren't quite large enough in enough sports to split into 2 conferences and thus 2 Pool A bids.

Several teams had good or frequent showings in the Sweet 16 in the last decade.  

2000- McMurry had a bye, beat Pomona-Pitzer at home Maryville at Calvin and then lost at National Champion Calvin in the Elite 8.
2001- McMurry had a bye and then beat Mississippi College before losing to runner-up WPU and Horace Jenkins in the Sweet 16 at CNU
2004-  Sul Ross State beat UDallas and then Trinity TX, before losing to Lawrence in OT.
2005 - UTDallas lost at a strong Trinity team in the first round.
2005 - Mississippi College lost to Calvin in the Sweet 16. (Thanks to Knightslappy)
2006 - Mississippi College lost to Transylvania in the Sweet 16
2007 - Mississippi College lost at VWC in a Sectional after a Triple OT Guilford-Lincoln game.
2008 - Mary Hardin-Baylor lost at Millsaps on a Chad Songy impossible heart-breaker (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56MEGFteGyM) in the second round.  Millsaps gave WashStL a competitive Elite 8 game in St Louis in the next weekend.
2009 - UTDallas gets a bye, wins at Trinity and over Capital before losing to Guilford in OT in the Elite 8.

Two unique Elite 8's, four unique Sweet 16's and five different teams earning NCAA post-season appearances... that is parity.  McMurry had all or part of 7 ASC-West division titles plus two more divisional second places in the last decade.  However, the ASC tournament is a killer, because we haven't been to the NCAA's for the men since 2001.  Five different teams have won or shared the ASC West since 2005.  It has been Mississippi College or UT-Dallas since 2003 on the East.

Practically speaking, the tourney for the 15-team division format is a play-in game for us.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 01, 2010, 03:35:13 AM
Mine's in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 01, 2010, 09:33:53 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 01, 2010, 12:37:47 AM
2005 - UTDallas lost at a strong Trinity team in the first round.

Mississippi College made it to the round of sixteen in '05 before losing to Salem-bound Calvin up here in the mitten state.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 01, 2010, 01:34:40 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 01, 2010, 09:33:53 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 01, 2010, 12:37:47 AM
2005 - UTDallas lost at a strong Trinity team in the first round.

Mississippi College made it to the round of sixteen in '05 before losing to Salem-bound Calvin up here in the mitten state.

I notice Ralph didn't put margins of defeat with any of those games. ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 01, 2010, 01:57:42 PM
Quote from: sac on February 01, 2010, 01:34:40 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 01, 2010, 09:33:53 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 01, 2010, 12:37:47 AM
2005 - UTDallas lost at a strong Trinity team in the first round.

Mississippi College made it to the round of sixteen in '05 before losing to Salem-bound Calvin up here in the mitten state.

I notice Ralph didn't put margins of defeat with any of those games. ;)
Yeah, I know.   :-\  Ouch!

McMurry had a reunion of the 1998-2001 teams last weekend.
 
I finally got to meet Daniel Maritnez, the all-American point guard thru  2000.  He holds the record for most steals against Calvin, all-time single game.  (The 1999-2000 Calvin statistics are no longer online.)

Daniel is #2 on the all-time career list for steals in D3, despite only three of his years (Soph., Jr, and Sr.) counting towards the total.  He lamented how the team started doing some things wrong after the Calvin put on the run to catch up in the first half.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 01, 2010, 05:29:04 PM
In the left coast bragging rights dept, someone explain how Chapman can continue to move up with the pack with victories over the likes of Southwestern (a Bible college) by only 13?  That school is 2-16 and yet I expect to see Chapman move up again?  That's not a good win, in fact, it is evidence that it is possible to sneak into the top 10 without a quality win.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 01, 2010, 08:42:47 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 01, 2010, 05:29:04 PM
In the left coast bragging rights dept, someone explain how Chapman can continue to move up with the pack with victories over the likes of Southwestern (a Bible college) by only 13?  That school is 2-16 and yet I expect to see Chapman move up again?  That's not a good win, in fact, its evidence that it is possible to sneak into the top 10 without a quality win.

I sort of agree.  I don't think Chapman, Middlebury, MIT, or St. Norbert have wins to hang their hats on.  However, they have avoided losses.  It always comes down to how one chooses between quality wins (with some unfortunate losses) and those teams who simply avoid losing.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: oldchap on February 01, 2010, 08:46:38 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 01, 2010, 05:29:04 PM
In the left coast bragging rights dept, someone explain how Chapman can continue to move up with the pack with victories over the likes of Southwestern (a Bible college) by only 13?  That school is 2-16 and yet I expect to see Chapman move up again?  That's not a good win, in fact, its evidence that it is possible to sneak into the top 10 without a quality win.

As much as I believe that Chapman does belong in the Top 25 rankings, I will be the first to admit that their current rank is probably a tad overstated. However, you can't take a victory over a "lowly" NAIA Division II as the reason why Chapman moved up in the rankings this week. Other teams in the middle of the rankings shuffle around quite a bit due to surprises. For example, Randoph-Macon's last two games dropped them from the top 10 because they were "bad" losses. This probably artificially "pushed" Chapman up. In addition, Chapman may not have a great SOS, but they keep winning and this eventually counts for something.

By the way, the fact that the margin of victory over Southwestern was 13 is no indication of a "bad" win. As the coach sees the post season approaching, he wants the bench to play more minutes in order to give them valuable experience, especially against opponents where the end result is meaningless. In this game, the bench played nearly 40% of the game. Had the starters stayed in, the difference would have been much greater, trust me!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 01, 2010, 11:29:50 PM
St. Norbert has a very high Massey rating, so while they haven't done anything super-extraordinary, they've done what they have needed to do.

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 01, 2010, 11:37:43 PM
Quote from: oldchap on February 01, 2010, 08:46:38 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 01, 2010, 05:29:04 PM
In the left coast bragging rights dept, someone explain how Chapman can continue to move up with the pack with victories over the likes of Southwestern (a Bible college) by only 13?  That school is 2-16 and yet I expect to see Chapman move up again?  That's not a good win, in fact, its evidence that it is possible to sneak into the top 10 without a quality win.

As much as I believe that Chapman does belong in the Top 25 rankings, I will be the first to admit that their current rank is probably a tad overstated. However, you can't take a victory over a "lowly" NAIA Division II as the reason why Chapman moved up in the rankings this week. Other teams in the middle of the rankings shuffle around quite a bit due to surprises. For example, Randoph-Macon's last two games dropped them from the top 10 because they were "bad" losses. This probably artificially "pushed" Chapman up. In addition, Chapman may not have a great SOS, but they keep winning and this eventually counts for something.

By the way, the fact that the margin of victory over Southwestern was 13 is no indication of a "bad" win. As the coach sees the post season approaching, he wants the bench to play more minutes in order to give them valuable experience, especially against opponents where the end result is meaningless. In this game, the bench played nearly 40% of the game. Had the starters stayed in, the difference would have been much greater, trust me!

Yeah, "float-up" is real.  That may be the hardest thing for a team to overcome.

Their fans are deluded into thinking that a team is better than it really is, when other teams, in hard conferences, are taking mid-season licks.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 02, 2010, 09:57:15 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 01, 2010, 11:37:43 PM
Quote from: oldchap on February 01, 2010, 08:46:38 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 01, 2010, 05:29:04 PM
In the left coast bragging rights dept, someone explain how Chapman can continue to move up with the pack with victories over the likes of Southwestern (a Bible college) by only 13?  That school is 2-16 and yet I expect to see Chapman move up again?  That's not a good win, in fact, its evidence that it is possible to sneak into the top 10 without a quality win.

As much as I believe that Chapman does belong in the Top 25 rankings, I will be the first to admit that their current rank is probably a tad overstated. However, you can't take a victory over a "lowly" NAIA Division II as the reason why Chapman moved up in the rankings this week. Other teams in the middle of the rankings shuffle around quite a bit due to surprises. For example, Randoph-Macon's last two games dropped them from the top 10 because they were "bad" losses. This probably artificially "pushed" Chapman up. In addition, Chapman may not have a great SOS, but they keep winning and this eventually counts for something.

By the way, the fact that the margin of victory over Southwestern was 13 is no indication of a "bad" win. As the coach sees the post season approaching, he wants the bench to play more minutes in order to give them valuable experience, especially against opponents where the end result is meaningless. In this game, the bench played nearly 40% of the game. Had the starters stayed in, the difference would have been much greater, trust me!

Yeah, "float-up" is real.  That may be the hardest thing for a team to overcome.

Their fans are deluded into thinking that a team is better than it really is, when other teams, in hard conferences, are taking mid-season licks.
I trust you on the recent game result that Chapman could have had a bigger number.  I am not down on Chapman per se, I think that a SOS, OWP, OOWP evaluation is the "anti float."  I also think the subsequent posts got the message I was trying to convey and RT framed it nicely.

It is extremely possible to have a very good record and not be a top school, just ask the BCS committee.  ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Titan Q on February 02, 2010, 12:31:30 PM
Elmhurst is one the teams I've used for comparison this season since they've played 5 teams in the poll/receiving votes...

@ #4 UW-Stevens Point (beat EC by 8...up 9 at the half and led by 10 or so most of the 2nd)
vs #9 St. Norbert (beat EC by 2...EC led by 5 at half and for 16 minutes of the 2nd before giving up lead late)
@ #11 Chapman (beat EC by 15...led by 10 at the half and by 16 or so most of 2nd)
@ #23 Carthage (beat EC by 17...led by 14 at half and up as much as 31 in the 2nd)

vs ORV Ill. Wesleyan (beat EC by 10...led by 6 at the half and up as much as 20 in the 2nd)


Chapman handled EC fairly easily, as have all the above except St. Norbert.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 02, 2010, 04:52:48 PM
The preferred deadline is barely over an hour away, and only ten ballots so far. :(

Any more in the pipeline?  (I'll hold the deadline, if necessary.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on February 02, 2010, 06:01:21 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 02, 2010, 04:52:48 PM
The preferred deadline is barely over an hour away, and only ten ballots so far. :(

Any more in the pipeline?  (I'll hold the deadline, if necessary.)

If you can hold off until 7:00 Central, I may be able to get one more in...  I'm cooking dinner when I get home from work.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 02, 2010, 06:07:16 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on February 02, 2010, 06:01:21 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 02, 2010, 04:52:48 PM
The preferred deadline is barely over an hour away, and only ten ballots so far. :(

Any more in the pipeline?  (I'll hold the deadline, if necessary.)

If you can hold off until 7:00 Central, I may be able to get one more in...  I'm cooking dinner when I get home from work.

Boy, you cut it close - I was just about to start typing when I gigured I'd check one last time! ;)

Anyone else?  (Scout can't do it this week.  Greg?  psbrooks3?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 02, 2010, 06:14:23 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 02, 2010, 06:07:16 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on February 02, 2010, 06:01:21 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 02, 2010, 04:52:48 PM
The preferred deadline is barely over an hour away, and only ten ballots so far. :(

Any more in the pipeline?  (I'll hold the deadline, if necessary.)

If you can hold off until 7:00 Central, I may be able to get one more in...  I'm cooking dinner when I get home from work.

Boy, you cut it close - I was just about to start typing when I gigured I'd check one last time! ;)

Anyone else?  (Scout can't do it this week.  Greg?  psbrooks3?

Give me a few more minutes, Chuck, and I'll have mine done as well.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pbrooks3 on February 02, 2010, 06:15:43 PM
Same here, Chuck.  Running a bit behind this week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 02, 2010, 06:23:14 PM
Fantastic!

Don't tell my wife, but apparently nagging really does work! ;D

Hopefully we will have a poll by later this evening with 13 voters. :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 02, 2010, 06:34:01 PM
Mine's in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on February 02, 2010, 07:29:31 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on February 02, 2010, 06:01:21 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 02, 2010, 04:52:48 PM
The preferred deadline is barely over an hour away, and only ten ballots so far. :(

Any more in the pipeline?  (I'll hold the deadline, if necessary.)

If you can hold off until 7:00 Central, I may be able to get one more in...  I'm cooking dinner when I get home from work.

I'm going to need a few more minutes.  I'll get mine in, just may be a little later.  Sorry.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on February 02, 2010, 08:14:27 PM
In
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 02, 2010, 08:28:55 PM
I now have the expected 13 ballots in, but a (possible) error on one.  An otherwise highly ranked team by 12 posters was omitted completely; just checking if that was intentional or an oversight.

Poll will hopefully be coming fairly soon.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 02, 2010, 08:54:33 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 02, 2010, 08:28:55 PM
I now have the expected 13 ballots in, but a (possible) error on one.  An otherwise highly ranked team by 12 posters was omitted completely; just checking if that was intentional or an oversight.

Poll will hopefully be coming fairly soon.
I have checked my message box, and apparently it is not I who did such a stupid thing (again).   ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 02, 2010, 09:11:28 PM

I'm waiting impatiently.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 02, 2010, 10:22:30 PM
Calm down, Hoops Fan! ;D

POSTERS' POLL, January 31, 2010:

1.  Guilford         322 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,2)
2.  Williams        303 (1,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,3,3,3,5,5)
3.  UWSP           293 (1,2,2,3,3,3,3,4,4,4,5,5,6)
4.  WashU         280 (1,2,2,3,3,3,5,5,5,5,7,7,10)
5.  VaWes          268 3,4,4,4,4,4,4,6,7,7,7,8,8)
6.  UWW            259 (4,4,5,5,6,6,6,6,7,7,7,7,9)
7.  St. Thomas   247 (5,5,6,6,6,6,7,7,8,8,9,9,9,)
8.  Whitworth    233 (3,4,6,8,8,8,8,9,9,10,10,10,10)
9.  Willy Pat       190 (5,7,10,11,11,11,11,12,13,13,13,14,17)
10. MIT              188 (6,7,9,9,11,11,12,12,14,14,14,15,16)
11. St. Norbs     187 (6.8.8.9.11,11,11,12,13,13,16,16,17)
12. EMU             177 (8,9,10,10,11,11,12,13,13,13,14,18,19)
13. Midd             167 (4,8,10,10,10,10,13,13,15,18,19,20,21)
14. UT-Dallas      145 (9,9,10,12,12,12,14,15,16,19,19,21,25)
15. Chapman      132 (9,12,12,13,14,14,15,16,18,18,21,22,22)
16. Anderson      117 (12,13,13,15,15,16,16,16,17,19,2122,-)
17. Carthage      106 (8,14,15,17,17,17,17,20,20,20,20,22,25)
18. RandyMac      98 (12,14,15,16,18,18,18,20,20,21,22,22,24)
19. Brandeis        87 (14,15,15,17,17,18,20,20,21,21,22.25.-)
20. F & M             79 (14,15,15,16,18,19,19,19,20, -,-,-,-)
21. Wooster        76 (15,16,17,17,17,19,19,21,21,22,-,-,-)
22. Medaille         60 (11,14,18,18,20,21,23,24,25,-,-,-,-)
t23 Colby             42 (11,20,21,22,23,23,24,24,24,-,-,-,-)
t23 IWU               42 (16,19,21,21,22,22,23,23,25,-,-,-,-)
25. MissCol          40 (17,18,19,20,22,24,24,24,-,-,-,-,-)

26. Albright          31 (12,19,23,24,24,24,25)
27. St.Mary's        26 (16,18,23,24,25,25,25)
28. Lycoming         6 (23,23)
t29  SJF                 4 (23,25)
t29  Hope             4 (22)
t31  Cabrini           3 (23)
t31  JCU                3 (23)
t31  Rochester      3 (23)
t34  Amherst         2 (25,25)
t34  Wilma            2 (24)
36. UMHB              1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 02, 2010, 10:29:10 PM

Not as crazy as I thought.  I was high outlier on WP and RMC, the low outlier on WashU, Midd, and Brandeis.

I only counted it an outlier if I was the only one at one extreme or another.

All, but my 23, 24, and 25 slots made it onto the poll.

Perhaps I'm not as crazy as I thought.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 02, 2010, 10:35:09 PM
Fear not, Captain Outlier, we all still think you're crazy.

That's why we have you in the poll! :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 02, 2010, 10:36:49 PM

I wonder if the official poll has such a wide range of placements for some of these teams?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 02, 2010, 10:53:44 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 02, 2010, 10:36:49 PM

I wonder if the official poll has such a wide range of placements for some of these teams?

I had a similar question, but I do buy into the diverse vote distribution.

Mr Ypsi, in your statistical expert opinion,

now that we have 12 or more votes in the poll, is our sample sufficiently large to drop the top and bottom vote in the poll and re-publish the poll?

It would be interesting to see if this would tighten the poll to more realistic voting.

Thanks
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 02, 2010, 11:06:30 PM
Make a case for Medaille or  Franklin and Marshall in the top 25 for me.

Both have played very weak schedules.  Since people like to sight Massey........F&M 293, Medaile 368 schedule strength.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 02, 2010, 11:09:59 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 02, 2010, 10:53:44 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 02, 2010, 10:36:49 PM

I wonder if the official poll has such a wide range of placements for some of these teams?

I had a similar question, but I do buy into the diverse vote distribution.

Mr Ypsi, in your statistical expert opinion,

now that we have 12 or more votes in the poll, is our sample sufficiently large to drop the top and bottom vote in the poll and re-publish the poll?

It would be interesting to see if this would tighten the poll to more realistic voting.

Thanks

I'd prefer to go ahead and present ALL the data.

But since I present all the votes (including the highest and lowest), anyone who wished to do what you suggest could easily re-compute the poll.

[As a statistician, I wouldn't touch our poll with a 10-foot pole! ;)  It is neither randomly selected (and far too small for that to be wise anyway), nor expertly selected for diversity and balance (as with Pat's poll).  It is what it is - a group of d3 fans giving their (hopefully, reasonably informed) opinions, then learning more about both d3 teams and the difficulties of polling by debating anomalies, whether within our poll or between our poll and Pat's.]
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 02, 2010, 11:18:31 PM
I've just made a correction to the poll (I think the totals are still correct).  A voter noted that he had EMU 13th, but there was no 13th recorded.  In fact, THREE of the votes typed as 12th were actually 13th.

My tabulation skills (while imperfect) are usually better than my typing skills. :P  If anyone else notes a seeming error, please let me know.  (Here is OK if you must, but doing it by PM, like this voter, is so much more gracious! :))
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hugenerd on February 02, 2010, 11:25:34 PM
Looking at the numbers, it wouldnt change things much (this was with mental math so there may be mistakes):

1.  Guilford         273
2.  Williams        257
3.  UWSP           248
4.  WashU         239
5.  VaWes          227
6.  UWW            220
7.  St. Thomas   209
8.  Whitworth    194
9.  Willy Pat       160
10. MIT              158
10t. St. Norbs     158
12. EMU             152
13. Midd             140
14. UT-Dallas      127
15. Chapman      111
16. Anderson      103
17. Carthage       87
18. RandyMac      82
19. Brandeis        75
20. F & M             67
21. Wooster        65
22. Medaille         45
23 IWU               32
24. MissCol         31
25 Colby             27

Only Colby drops two spots and it gets a litte tighter around #10.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: frodotwo on February 02, 2010, 11:33:33 PM
                                Prev Wk
                              Rank - Points

1.  Guilford         322   {2 - 309}      (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,2)
2.  Williams        303   {3 - 289}      (1,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,3,3,3,5,5)
3.  UWSP           293   {1 - 325}       (1,2,2,3,3,3,3,4,4,4,5,5,6)
4.  WashU         280   {5 - 258}       (1,2,2,3,3,3,5,5,5,5,7,7,10)
5.  VaWes          268  {6 - 246}        (3,4,4,4,4,4,4,6,7,7,7,8,8)
6.  UWW            259   {4 - 277}       (4,4,5,5,6,6,6,6,7,7,7,7,9)
7.  St. Thomas   247   {9 - 220}        (5,5,6,6,6,6,7,7,8,8,9,9,9,)
8.  Whitworth    233   {12 - 186}     (3,4,6,8,8,8,8,9,9,10,10,10,10)
9.  Willy Pat       190   15 - 128}        (5,7,10,11,11,11,11,12,13,13,13,14,17)
10. MIT              188   {14 - 159}     (6,7,9,9,11,11,12,12,14,14,14,15,16)
11. St. Norbs     187   {13 - 174}     (6.8.8.9.11,11,11,12,13,13,16,16,17)
12. EMU             177   {7 - 245}       (8,9,10,10,11,11,12,13,13,13,14,18,19)
13. Midd             167   {10 - 206}     (4,8,10,10,10,10,13,13,15,18,19,20,21)
14. UT-Dallas      145   {19 - 79}      (9,9,10,12,12,12,14,15,16,19,19,21,25)
15. Chapman      132   {16 - 112}     (9,12,12,13,14,14,15,16,18,18,21,22,22)
16. Anderson      117   {11 - 198}     (12,13,13,15,15,16,16,16,17,19,2122,-)
17. Carthage      106   {23 - 35}       (8,14,15,17,17,17,17,20,20,20,20,22,25)
18. RandyMac      98   {8 - 231}        (12,14,15,16,18,18,18,20,20,21,22,22,24)
19. Brandeis        87   {25 - 33}        (14,15,15,17,17,18,20,20,21,21,22.25.-)
20. F & M             79   {20-54}           (14,15,15,16,18,19,19,19,20, -,-,-,-)
21. Wooster        76   {24 - 34}         (15,16,17,17,17,19,19,21,21,22,-,-,-)
22. Medaille         60   {22 - 52}         (11,14,18,18,20,21,23,24,25,-,-,-,-)
t23 Colby             42   {32 - 5             (11,20,21,22,23,23,24,24,24,-,-,-,-)
t23 IWU               42   {17 - 93}         (16,19,21,21,22,22,23,23,25,-,-,-,-)
25. MissCol          40   {18 - 81}         (17,18,19,20,22,24,24,24,-,-,-,-,-)

26. Albright          31   {29 - 16}         (12,19,23,24,24,24,25)
27. St.Mary's        26   {27 - 21}         (16,18,23,24,25,25,25)
28. Lycoming         6   {31  - 12}         (23,23)
t29  SJF                 4   {NV}                  (23,25)
t29  Hope             4    {NV}                 (22)
t31  Cabrini           3   {28 - 20}           (23)
t31  JCU                3   {NV}                  (23)
t31  Rochester      3   {32 - 5}             (23)
t34  Amherst         2   {21 - 53}           (25,25)
t34  Wilma            2   {30 - 13}           (24)
36. UMHB              1   {NV}

Dropped out: #26 Maryville; #32 CMS; #32 Calvin; #32 GAC; #37 Oneonta; #37 Wheaton
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 02, 2010, 11:34:34 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 02, 2010, 10:22:30 PM
Calm down, Hoops Fan! ;D

POSTERS' POLL, January 32, 2010:

1.  Guilford         322 273 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,2)
2.  Williams        303 267 (1,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,3,3,3,5,5)
3.  UWSP           293 248 (1,2,2,3,3,3,3,4,4,4,5,5,6)
4.  WashU         280 239 (1,2,2,3,3,3,5,5,5,5,7,7,10)
5.  VaWes          268 227 (3,4,4,4,4,4,4,6,7,7,7,8,8)
6.  UWW            259 220 (4,4,5,5,6,6,6,6,7,7,7,7,9)
7.  St. Thomas   247 209 (5,5,6,6,6,6,7,7,8,8,9,9,9)
8.  Whitworth    233 194 (3,4,6,8,8,8,8,9,9,10,10,10,10)
9.  Willy Pat       190 160 (5,7,10,11,11,11,11,12,13,13,13,14,17)
10. MIT              188 160 (6,7,9,9,11,11,12,12,14,14,14,15,16)
11. St. Norbs     187 158 (6.8.8.9.11,11,11,12,13,13,16,16,17)
12. EMU             177 152 (8,9,10,10,11,11,12,13,13,13,14,18,19)
13. Midd             167 141 (4,8,10,10,10,10,13,13,15,18,19,20,21)
14. UT-Dallas      145 127 (9,9,10,12,12,12,14,15,16,19,19,21,25)
15. Chapman      132 111 (9,12,12,13,14,14,15,16,18,18,21,22,22)
16. Anderson      117 103 (12,13,13,15,15,16,16,16,17,19,2122,-)
17. Carthage      106 85 (8,14,15,17,17,17,17,20,20,20,20,22,25)
18. RandyMac      98 82 (12,14,15,16,18,18,18,20,20,21,22,22,24)
19. Brandeis        87 75 (14,15,15,17,17,18,20,20,21,21,22.25.-)
20. F & M             79 67 (14,15,15,16,18,19,19,19,20, -,-,-,-)
21. Wooster        76 65 (15,16,17,17,17,19,19,21,21,22,-,-,-)
22. Medaille         60 45 (11,14,18,18,20,21,23,24,25,-,-,-,-)
t23 Colby             42 27 (11,20,21,22,23,23,24,24,24,-,-,-,-)
t23 IWU               42 36 (16,19,21,21,22,22,23,23,25,-,-,-,-)
25. MissCol          40 31 (17,18,19,20,22,24,24,24,-,-,-,-,-)

26. Albright          31 17 (12,19,23,24,24,24,25)
27. St.Mary's        26 16 (16,18,23,24,25,25,25)


28. Lycoming         6 (23,23)
t29  SJF                 4 (23,25)
t29  Hope             4 (22)
t31  Cabrini           3 (23)
t31  JCU                3 (23)
t31  Rochester      3 (23)
t34  Amherst         2 (25,25)
t34  Wilma            2 (24)
36. UMHB              1

It only knocks Colby from #23 to #25, and it brings Willy Pat and MIT into a tie.



Hugenerd has a bigger calculator, but my post is "prettier".   :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: frodotwo on February 02, 2010, 11:37:56 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 02, 2010, 10:22:30 PM
Calm down, Hoops Fan! ;D

POSTERS' POLL, January 32, 2010:

1.  Guilford         322 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,2)
2.  Williams        303 (1,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,3,3,3,5,5)
3.  UWSP           293 (1,2,2,3,3,3,3,4,4,4,5,5,6)
4.  WashU         280 (1,2,2,3,3,3,5,5,5,5,7,7,10)
5.  VaWes          268 3,4,4,4,4,4,4,6,7,7,7,8,8)
6.  UWW            259 (4,4,5,5,6,6,6,6,7,7,7,7,9)
7.  St. Thomas   247 (5,5,6,6,6,6,7,7,8,8,9,9,9,)
8.  Whitworth    233 (3,4,6,8,8,8,8,9,9,10,10,10,10)
9.  Willy Pat       190 (5,7,10,11,11,11,11,12,13,13,13,14,17)
10. MIT              188 (6,7,9,9,11,11,12,12,14,14,14,15,16)
11. St. Norbs     187 (6.8.8.9.11,11,11,12,13,13,16,16,17)
12. EMU             177 (8,9,10,10,11,11,12,13,13,13,14,18,19)
13. Midd             167 (4,8,10,10,10,10,13,13,15,18,19,20,21)
14. UT-Dallas      145 (9,9,10,12,12,12,14,15,16,19,19,21,25)
15. Chapman      132 (9,12,12,13,14,14,15,16,18,18,21,22,22)
16. Anderson      117 (12,13,13,15,15,16,16,16,17,19,2122,-)
17. Carthage      106 (8,14,15,17,17,17,17,20,20,20,20,22,25)
18. RandyMac      98 (12,14,15,16,18,18,18,20,20,21,22,22,24)
19. Brandeis        87 (14,15,15,17,17,18,20,20,21,21,22.25.-)
20. F & M             79 (14,15,15,16,18,19,19,19,20, -,-,-,-)
21. Wooster        76 (15,16,17,17,17,19,19,21,21,22,-,-,-)
22. Medaille         60 (11,14,18,18,20,21,23,24,25,-,-,-,-)
t23 Colby             42 (11,20,21,22,23,23,24,24,24,-,-,-,-)
t23 IWU               42 (16,19,21,21,22,22,23,23,25,-,-,-,-)
25. MissCol          40 (17,18,19,20,22,24,24,24,-,-,-,-,-)

26. Albright          31 (12,19,23,24,24,24,25)
27. St.Mary's        26 (16,18,23,24,25,25,25)
28. Lycoming         6 (23,23)
t29  SJF                 4 (23,25)
t29  Hope             4 (22)
t31  Cabrini           3 (23)
t31  JCU                3 (23)
t31  Rochester      3 (23)
t34  Amherst         2 (25,25)
t34  Wilma            2 (24)
36. UMHB              1

Isn't today the 33rd ???
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 02, 2010, 11:45:33 PM
I have F&M at #19, and keep them there because they and WPU (at #17) are  the only teams from those two regions that seem to have any chance of being in the tourney come Elite 8.  My WPU is my only drastic outlier.  I will reconsider them next week.  (Haw, Haw, Haw.  Aaarrrrrrrggggghhhhh, I have just put a dastardly curse on the Pioneers.)

F&M might breeze thru the first three rounds and meet WPU.

If WPU's defense is as good as we have seen in the usual NJAC teams, then defense can win tourney games.
Yeah, St Mary's MD is Mid-Atlantic and Capital AC, but they are still close to the South.  I think that I have a better handle on South Region teams.  They are my # 24.  I can see them as a higher seed and winning a weaker sectional and making it to the Sweet 16.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 02, 2010, 11:59:18 PM
.....and just so we're clear, I was not the Hope voter........flattering.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 03, 2010, 12:30:17 AM
Quote from: sac on February 02, 2010, 11:59:18 PM
.....and just so we're clear, I was not the Hope voter........flattering.

And for the fourth straight week, I voted IWU at or within one spot of where they placed. ;)

I've noted VERY little team, conference, or regional bias among voters.  A tad, perhaps, from a couple of voters, but ONLY a tad.

I like the voting pool. :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 03, 2010, 01:09:34 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 03, 2010, 12:30:17 AM
Quote from: sac on February 02, 2010, 11:59:18 PM
.....and just so we're clear, I was not the Hope voter........flattering.

And for the fourth straight week, I voted IWU at or within one spot of where they placed. ;)

I've noted VERY little team, conference, or regional bias among voters.  A tad, perhaps, from a couple of voters, but ONLY a tad.

I like the voting pool. :)

Thanks, as always, for remembering to put the chlorine in it, Chuck. ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 03, 2010, 01:16:45 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 03, 2010, 01:09:34 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 03, 2010, 12:30:17 AM
Quote from: sac on February 02, 2010, 11:59:18 PM
.....and just so we're clear, I was not the Hope voter........flattering.

And for the fourth straight week, I voted IWU at or within one spot of where they placed. ;)

I've noted VERY little team, conference, or regional bias among voters.  A tad, perhaps, from a couple of voters, but ONLY a tad.

I like the voting pool. :)

Thanks, as always, for remembering to put the chlorine in it, Chuck. ;)

I haven't even needed the chlorine.  No one seems to be p***ing in the the pool! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hugenerd on February 03, 2010, 10:26:10 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 02, 2010, 11:34:34 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 02, 2010, 10:22:30 PM
Calm down, Hoops Fan! ;D

POSTERS' POLL, January 32, 2010:

1.  Guilford         322 273 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,2)
2.  Williams        303 267 (1,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,3,3,3,5,5)
3.  UWSP           293 248 (1,2,2,3,3,3,3,4,4,4,5,5,6)
4.  WashU         280 239 (1,2,2,3,3,3,5,5,5,5,7,7,10)
5.  VaWes          268 227 (3,4,4,4,4,4,4,6,7,7,7,8,8)
6.  UWW            259 220 (4,4,5,5,6,6,6,6,7,7,7,7,9)
7.  St. Thomas   247 209 (5,5,6,6,6,6,7,7,8,8,9,9,9)
8.  Whitworth    233 194 (3,4,6,8,8,8,8,9,9,10,10,10,10)
9.  Willy Pat       190 160 (5,7,10,11,11,11,11,12,13,13,13,14,17)
10. MIT              188 160 (6,7,9,9,11,11,12,12,14,14,14,15,16)
11. St. Norbs     187 158 (6.8.8.9.11,11,11,12,13,13,16,16,17)
12. EMU             177 152 (8,9,10,10,11,11,12,13,13,13,14,18,19)
13. Midd             167 141 (4,8,10,10,10,10,13,13,15,18,19,20,21)
14. UT-Dallas      145 127 (9,9,10,12,12,12,14,15,16,19,19,21,25)
15. Chapman      132 111 (9,12,12,13,14,14,15,16,18,18,21,22,22)
16. Anderson      117 103 (12,13,13,15,15,16,16,16,17,19,2122,-)
17. Carthage      106 85 (8,14,15,17,17,17,17,20,20,20,20,22,25)
18. RandyMac      98 82 (12,14,15,16,18,18,18,20,20,21,22,22,24)
19. Brandeis        87 75 (14,15,15,17,17,18,20,20,21,21,22.25.-)
20. F & M             79 67 (14,15,15,16,18,19,19,19,20, -,-,-,-)
21. Wooster        76 65 (15,16,17,17,17,19,19,21,21,22,-,-,-)
22. Medaille         60 45 (11,14,18,18,20,21,23,24,25,-,-,-,-)
t23 Colby             42 27 (11,20,21,22,23,23,24,24,24,-,-,-,-)
t23 IWU               42 36 (16,19,21,21,22,22,23,23,25,-,-,-,-)
25. MissCol          40 31 (17,18,19,20,22,24,24,24,-,-,-,-,-)

26. Albright          31 17 (12,19,23,24,24,24,25)
27. St.Mary's        26 16 (16,18,23,24,25,25,25)


28. Lycoming         6 (23,23)
t29  SJF                 4 (23,25)
t29  Hope             4 (22)
t31  Cabrini           3 (23)
t31  JCU                3 (23)
t31  Rochester      3 (23)
t34  Amherst         2 (25,25)
t34  Wilma            2 (24)
36. UMHB              1

It only knocks Colby from #23 to #25, and it brings Willy Pat and MIT into a tie.



Hugenerd has a bigger calculator, but my post is "prettier".   :D

Unfortunately I didnt have my calculator on me, so I just did some quick mental math. But we did have the same general conclusions.

Actually, looking at your numbers and my numbers and double-checking, I think some of your numbers are off.  For example, Williams had 303, knocking off a 1 and a 5 is (25+21), so their new total is 303-46=257 (not 267). Similarly, in the case of MIT, they had 188, knocking off a 6 and a 16 is (20+10), which brings them to 188-30 = 158.  For Midd, 167 minus a 4th and a 21 is (22+5) = 167-27 = 140. Carthage, 106 minus an 8 and a 25 is (18+1), or 106-19 = 87. IWU had 42, they lose a 16 and a '-' (10+0), 42-10 = 32.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 03, 2010, 11:32:04 AM

I wasn't a solo voter on any team.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 03, 2010, 12:20:22 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 03, 2010, 11:32:04 AM

I wasn't a solo voter on any team.
You are either losing your touch or your deviancy is becoming the norm.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 03, 2010, 12:39:10 PM
Quote from: hugenerd on February 03, 2010, 10:26:10 AM

Unfortunately I didnt have my calculator on me, so I just did some quick mental math. But we did have the same general conclusions..

And I thought you huge nerds never left home without them. ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on February 03, 2010, 12:58:03 PM
Quote from: sac on February 02, 2010, 11:06:30 PM
Make a case for Medaille or  Franklin and Marshall in the top 25 for me.

Both have played very weak schedules.  Since people like to sight Massey........F&M 293, Medaile 368 schedule strength.


I have to look at the numbers later.  This is the argument I made against St Norberts being as high as they are too.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 03, 2010, 01:10:50 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on February 03, 2010, 12:58:03 PM
Quote from: sac on February 02, 2010, 11:06:30 PM
Make a case for Medaille or  Franklin and Marshall in the top 25 for me.

Both have played very weak schedules.  Since people like to sight Massey........F&M 293, Medaile 368 schedule strength.


I have to look at the numbers later.  This is the argument I made against St Norberts being as high as they are too.

St. Norbert's is #133, which is higher than Williams #225 and William Patterson's #207
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 03, 2010, 06:29:57 PM
West Region has 4 of top 8, hopefully all four won't be staring at each other in the sweet 16.  I know, it's early...just last year was so brutal.  Regional rankings released today...is their any region ranking around?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 03, 2010, 07:20:01 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 03, 2010, 06:29:57 PM
West Region has 4 of top 8, hopefully all four won't be staring at each other in the sweet 16.  I know, it's early...just last year was so brutal.  Regional rankings released today...is their any region ranking around?

See the front page or the Pool C board.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 03, 2010, 11:10:13 PM
I was the one that didn't vote for Anderson.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 03, 2010, 11:28:31 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 03, 2010, 11:10:13 PM
I was the one that didn't vote for Anderson.
Thanks for the input.

I saw the HPU-Anderson boxscore (http://www.anderson.edu/athletics/mbasket/howard.html) and wondered about them.

They do not seem to have the team depth necessary to be one of the Top 25 teams in the country.  They only go 7 deep.  They had a 10 point lead over HPU (4-11/4-15) at the half, but apparently could not put them away at home after HPU drove 1095 miles.  I don't doubt that they aren't talented, but that performance did not inspire me to compare Anderson versus UMHB, UT-Dallas and Mississippi College.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 04, 2010, 11:32:37 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 03, 2010, 12:20:22 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 03, 2010, 11:32:04 AM

I wasn't a solo voter on any team.
You are either losing your touch or your deviancy is becoming the norm.

Definitely the later.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 04, 2010, 11:36:43 AM

I've been giving Anderson the benefit of the doubt because they've been winning and actually beaten decent teams.  Their schedule is much stronger than MIT or St. Norbert.

Right now I've got the really strong teams at the top, then Anderson, followed by MIT and St. Norbert.  Then I have a string of teams I think should be higher, but will have ton win their way up the rankings.

It's just a weak 15-45.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: dc_has_been on February 04, 2010, 11:59:07 AM
I think Anderson is worthy of being a top 25 team due to their record and teams they've beat.  Wins over UW-P, Witt, & currently being 10-1 in the HCAC, which isn't a weak conference at all should prove that. 
I do agree with Ralph about their depth issues.  It is showing in their recent box scores that with their last 5 wins they are barely getting by winning by an average of 3.2 pts and getting hammered by Defiance by 16 recently too.  I see them dropping at least two in their final five games.  They are fortunate to have three of those at home but they have to face Hanover (whose being playing real well lately) at Hanover for their final game.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 04, 2010, 11:36:05 PM

Just when I was really starting to trust them Texas-Dallas goes down on the road to (8-11) Louisiana College.  Normally a 1 point road loss to a conference opponent isn't too bad, but this isn't good.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 04, 2010, 11:42:28 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 04, 2010, 11:36:05 PM

Just when I was really starting to trust them Texas-Dallas goes down on the road to (8-11) Louisiana College.  Normally a 1 point road loss to a conference opponent isn't too bad, but this isn't good.
From the ASC board...

Upset!  LaCollege 69 UT-Dallas 68.

Tonight was Think Pink night at Lacollege.

The LaCollege women's coach (former Fresno State head coach Janice Joseph-Richard) is a breast cancer survivor so I wonder if a big crowd showed up and stayed for the Double header.

LaCollege women move ahead in the East.

LaCollege women beat UTD, 58-47, too.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 06, 2010, 04:33:05 PM

Glad I did not vote for Colby or Brandeis.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 06, 2010, 06:00:17 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 06, 2010, 04:33:05 PM

Glad I did not vote for Colby or Brandeis.

Unless they lose again tomorrow, Brandeis will probably not fall completely off my ballot.  But, yeah, I think Colby got exposed this weekend - short visit to the top 25! :o
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 07, 2010, 06:34:05 PM
Mine is in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Titan Q on February 07, 2010, 07:09:34 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 06, 2010, 06:00:17 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 06, 2010, 04:33:05 PM

Glad I did not vote for Colby or Brandeis.

Unless they lose again tomorrow, Brandeis will probably not fall completely off my ballot.  But, yeah, I think Colby got exposed this weekend - short visit to the top 25! :o
Exposed?  Colby lost at #2 and at #8?  What was supposed to happen in those games?

I don't have Colby on my ballot, but I don't understand this view.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 07, 2010, 07:58:59 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on February 07, 2010, 07:09:34 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 06, 2010, 06:00:17 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 06, 2010, 04:33:05 PM

Glad I did not vote for Colby or Brandeis.

Unless they lose again tomorrow, Brandeis will probably not fall completely off my ballot.  But, yeah, I think Colby got exposed this weekend - short visit to the top 25! :o
Exposed?  Colby lost at #2 and at #8?  What was supposed to happen in those games?

I don't have Colby on my ballot, but I don't understand this view.

They were expected to lose, but they were never even IN either game.  It served to reinforce that their 16-2 record had been achieved against nobody in particular (with the possible exception of Amherst).

I confess to a soft spot for Maine teams (the family has property there and I have had some wonderful summers).  I really though Colby could at least compete with those teams, and perhaps even manage a win over one or the other.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 07, 2010, 10:43:52 PM
Middlebury is not the #8 team in the country - not even close.  They haven't beaten anybody until Colby this week, who has an equally weak schedule.

I didn't vote for Colby last week and I've got Middlebury at #22 this week.

I thought Colby was better than they played this week.  I've been rooting for them, but the only chance they have to prove themselves passed them by this weekend.  Maybe they can make waves in the NESCAC tournament.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 07, 2010, 10:58:47 PM

I've submitted my ballot.  I would rather have stopped at #22 (Middlebury), but I did have to fill out the final three spots.

Against my better judgment I included Brandeis.  I would rather see how they play in the upcoming big games this week before voting for them, but they've earned it (at least more than Lycoming and CMS).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 08, 2010, 04:29:07 AM
My poll is in.
I have to disagree with Hoops Fan about Middlebury. I've seen them play and they're a pretty darn good team. In the loss to Williams they played without their leading scorer and rebounder 6'8" forward Ryan Sharry who averages 13.2 ppg, 8.1 rpg, and 2.1 bpg. He shoots 54% from the field, 45% 3's and 75% from the stripe. Williams may be the better team, but I hope they get to play each other again in the NESCAC tourney when Middlebury is at full strength.
I've got Williams at #3 this week moving them up a couple of spots from where I had them last week and I put Middlebury at #10, 1 spot ahead of Willie Paterson which is where I had both of them last week. I get to see all of the teams in the SUNYAC Conference and kind of use their results in non-conference games as somewhat of a measuring stick when looking at ranked teams, when those results come into play. Middlebury beat my hometown Plattsburgh St. Cardinals 81-75 back in early January. Oneonta State, a team that my Cardinals have beaten twice this year handed Willie Paterson their only loss. So based on what I've seen, I have to rank Middlebury above William Paterson. Another reference I have is Williams has played two SUNYAC teams. They hosted Cortland St. which was a 4 point Ephs win 72-68 but got a little home cookin as the Ephs had 31 free throw attempts to only 9 for Cortland. They traveled to New Paltz St. and won 70-68 when New Paltz had a three pointer for the win rim out at the buzzer. My Cardinals have split 2 games with New Paltz, winning on the road 92-77 and dropping an 81-77 contest in Plattsburgh. Plattsburgh's only meeting with Cortland resulted in a 78-73 defeat. So Williams played 2 very competitive games against the SUNYAC and Middlebury also played a competitive game against a SUNYAC opponent. I'm more concerned that I might have Williams too high at #3 than I am about placing Middlebury at #10.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nescac1 on February 08, 2010, 05:47:22 AM
I wouldn't worry about Williams.  Cortland was one of their worst games of the year, and it was only the second game of the season; they are MUCH improved since then, a totally different team (and Williams always shoots a lot of FTA's -- they've made more than their opponents have attempted -- as they are very aggressive taking it to the hole).  Granted, New Paltz State is a game where, again, they weren't at their best, but look what they've done since then: wins at Wesleyan by 16, at Conn by 12, at Hamilton by 35, at Midd by 15 (yes Sharry was out but Williams is also far better at home, so that is still very impressive), Colby (who had been red-hot up to that point) by 24, and Bowdoin (a solid team who has been at least competitive in every other game this year) by 43.  They have REALLY picked up their level of play since the New Paltz game which, even without losing, served as a bit of a wake-up call.  I can't imagine that, right now, anyone else is playing at as high a level, other than arguably Guilford -- especially when you look at the struggles of the rest of the top five or so teams.  Now anything can happen from this point forward ... Williams has a tough road weekend ahead including at Amherst (who is in a rut but still has talent and it's a rivalry game), then the NESCAC tourney, then the NCAA's ... but right now, the Ephs are on a roll, and they've been doing it against pretty good competition.  I've consistently said and I still think that there is no dominant team this year, but if anyone has been separating themselves of late, it is Guilford and the Ephs. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 08, 2010, 06:11:47 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 26, 2010, 09:10:42 PM
I've just received a PM from a voter/poster asking me to list all the voters.  Since there was no request to broach confidentiality in terms of HOW they voted, I'm tempted to comply, but wanted to give voters the opportunity to opt out if you so choose.  If any voter does NOT want to be identified as a voter, PM me.

While HOW you voted remains entirely your call on whether to 'own up', I can't come up with a compelling reason to hide WHO votes (by poster handle only).  Pat doesn't reveal the identity of d3hoops.com voters, but I don't think we are in quite the same situation! ;)

If anyone does NOT wish to be identified, PM me.  Otherwise I'll post the list tomorrow evening.

I complete forgot to do this!  Having heard no objections:

Already voted this week:  Mr. Ypsi, Ralph, Hoops Fan, frodotwo, magicman, hegenerd, KnightSlappy smedindy.

Hoping to hear from in the next 24 hours:  sac, dc_has_been, pbrooks3, Gregory Sager, Point Special, scout.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 08, 2010, 06:16:31 PM
Mine will likely be in some time tomorrow afternoon, Chuck.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 08, 2010, 07:27:26 PM
My ballot is sitting here with no address... ;) :D ::) :P :-[ :'( :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 08, 2010, 08:04:28 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 08, 2010, 07:27:26 PM
My ballot is sitting here with no address... ;) :D ::) :P :-[ :'( :)
PM to Mr Ypsi is the way that I do it.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 08, 2010, 08:57:36 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 08, 2010, 07:27:26 PM
My ballot is sitting here with no address... ;) :D ::) :P :-[ :'( :)

Like Ralph said, if you wanna join, just PM me (deadline is 6 EST on Tuesday).

And if you do, welcome aboard!

[While I've never had to enforce it, I do reserve the right to reject 'homer' ballots.  Putting Whitworth flat-out #1 would make you an outlier, but not in itself cause me to reject your ballot.  But with their records, I'd better not see any other NWC teams on your ballot! ;D]
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 08, 2010, 09:44:48 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 08, 2010, 08:57:36 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 08, 2010, 07:27:26 PM
My ballot is sitting here with no address... ;) :D ::) :P :-[ :'( :)

Like Ralph said, if you wanna join, just PM me (deadline is 6 EST on Tuesday).

And if you do, welcome aboard!

[While I've never had to enforce it, I do reserve the right to reject 'homer' ballots.  Putting Whitworth flat-out #1 would make you an outlier, but not in itself cause me to reject your ballot.  But with their records, I'd better not see any other NWC teams on your ballot! ;D]

And the subject of much ridicule and critical analysis of why such a vote would be entertained by any serious student of D-III Hoops.   ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 08, 2010, 10:13:16 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 08, 2010, 09:44:48 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 08, 2010, 08:57:36 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 08, 2010, 07:27:26 PM
My ballot is sitting here with no address...

Like Ralph said, if you wanna join, just PM me (deadline is 6 EST on Tuesday).

And if you do, welcome aboard!

[While I've never had to enforce it, I do reserve the right to reject 'homer' ballots.  Putting Whitworth flat-out #1 would make you an outlier, but not in itself cause me to reject your ballot.  But with their records, I'd better not see any other NWC teams on your ballot!

And the subject of much ridicule and critical analysis of why such a vote would be entertained by any serious student of D-III Hoops. 

Even I dropped Linfield off my "watch" list this week.  It's a shame.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: scout on February 08, 2010, 11:04:37 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 08, 2010, 10:13:16 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 08, 2010, 09:44:48 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 08, 2010, 08:57:36 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 08, 2010, 07:27:26 PM
My ballot is sitting here with no address...

Like Ralph said, if you wanna join, just PM me (deadline is 6 EST on Tuesday).

And if you do, welcome aboard!

[While I've never had to enforce it, I do reserve the right to reject 'homer' ballots.  Putting Whitworth flat-out #1 would make you an outlier, but not in itself cause me to reject your ballot.  But with their records, I'd better not see any other NWC teams on your ballot!

And the subject of much ridicule and critical analysis of why such a vote would be entertained by any serious student of D-III Hoops. 

Even I dropped Linfield off my "watch" list this week.  It's a shame.

The watch list must be really tightening up now. How many teams are left? And who outside the top 25 are still in it?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pbrooks3 on February 08, 2010, 11:12:05 PM
My ballot will be in tomorrow morning.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 08, 2010, 11:50:25 PM
Quote from: scout on February 08, 2010, 11:04:37 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 08, 2010, 10:13:16 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 08, 2010, 09:44:48 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 08, 2010, 08:57:36 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 08, 2010, 07:27:26 PM
My ballot is sitting here with no address...

Like Ralph said, if you wanna join, just PM me (deadline is 6 EST on Tuesday).

And if you do, welcome aboard!

[While I've never had to enforce it, I do reserve the right to reject 'homer' ballots.  Putting Whitworth flat-out #1 would make you an outlier, but not in itself cause me to reject your ballot.  But with their records, I'd better not see any other NWC teams on your ballot!

And the subject of much ridicule and critical analysis of why such a vote would be entertained by any serious student of D-III Hoops. 

Even I dropped Linfield off my "watch" list this week.  It's a shame.

The watch list must be really tightening up now. How many teams are left? And who outside the top 25 are still in it?

There are currently 24 "extra" on my list.  I'd say 6 of them are only there until their next loss.  5 are weak teams that would need to run the table and get help even to be considered for votes (they're only on the list so I don't have to add teams later in the event of an unexpected tourney run).  Another 5 won't earn votes on their own merits (need losses above them) due to inconsistency, too many early losses, or a flat out crap schedule.

That leaves about eight legitimate contenders for votes over the next two weeks.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 08, 2010, 11:59:40 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 08, 2010, 11:50:25 PM
Quote from: scout on February 08, 2010, 11:04:37 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 08, 2010, 10:13:16 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 08, 2010, 09:44:48 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 08, 2010, 08:57:36 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 08, 2010, 07:27:26 PM
My ballot is sitting here with no address...

Like Ralph said, if you wanna join, just PM me (deadline is 6 EST on Tuesday).

And if you do, welcome aboard!

[While I've never had to enforce it, I do reserve the right to reject 'homer' ballots.  Putting Whitworth flat-out #1 would make you an outlier, but not in itself cause me to reject your ballot.  But with their records, I'd better not see any other NWC teams on your ballot!

And the subject of much ridicule and critical analysis of why such a vote would be entertained by any serious student of D-III Hoops. 

Even I dropped Linfield off my "watch" list this week.  It's a shame.

The watch list must be really tightening up now. How many teams are left? And who outside the top 25 are still in it?

There are currently 24 "extra" on my list.  I'd say 6 of them are only there until their next loss.  5 are weak teams that would need to run the table and get help even to be considered for votes (they're only on the list so I don't have to add teams later in the event of an unexpected tourney run).  Another 5 won't earn votes on their own merits (need losses above them) due to inconsistency, too many early losses, or a flat out crap schedule.

That leaves about eight legitimate contenders for votes over the next two weeks.

While the teams vary, that seems to be about the consensus - 8 ballots in, with only 9 more than the minimum teams named (and 5 are 'orphans').
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 09, 2010, 12:25:37 AM
Nine ballots now, and only 4 orphans.  This has GOT to be a first (though I haven't checked the files for sure): NO team has less than 3 points!  [For those unwilling to do the math, that means only 1 'orphan' was as low as 23rd; two were 22nd; one was 19th.  EVERYone's 24th or 25th place team has been matched (or exceeded) by SOMEone else!]

Sorry, Captain Outlier - you have NO 'orphans'! :D  (Outliers remain to be seen.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 09, 2010, 12:28:59 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 09, 2010, 12:25:37 AM
Nine ballots now, and only 4 orphans.  This has GOT to be a first (though I haven't checked the files for sure): NO team has less than 3 points!  [For those unwilling to do the math, that means only 1 'orphan' was as low as 23rd; two were 22nd; one was 19th.  EVERYone's 24th or 25th place team has been matched (or exceeded) by SOMEone else!]

Sorry, Captain Outlier - you have NO 'orphans'!   (Outliers remain to be seen.)

I didn't expect any this week - I suspect most of my top 22 will be near unanimous.  We're just running out of reasons to keep some of these teams out of the poll.

I am glad Stevens has gotten love from more than one voter; they're peaking at the right time.  The other Bobby Hurley's doing a great job with them.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: dc_has_been on February 09, 2010, 02:19:05 PM
My Poll is in and ranking 20-25 was no easy task for me! 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 09, 2010, 06:06:05 PM
Mr. Y,
Isn't it possible a new poster poll record of 15 ballots may happen this week?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 09, 2010, 06:30:45 PM
Quote from: magicman on February 09, 2010, 06:06:05 PM
Mr. Y,
Isn't it possible a new poster poll record of 15 ballots may happen this week?

Nope.  We do now have 15 voters (so it may happen sometime), but one has already said he can't, and 3 others not yet heard from.

Any more ballots in the pipeline?  Greg?  PS?  scout?  Bueller ???
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 09, 2010, 06:31:04 PM
I just sent you mine, Chuck.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 09, 2010, 06:32:05 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 09, 2010, 06:31:04 PM
I just sent you mine, Chuck.

So you did!  I hadn't re-checked in the last minute! :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 09, 2010, 07:42:07 PM
Did you get one from the new guy out west?   ::) ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 09, 2010, 07:49:34 PM
Well, 12 voters ain't bad!  Maybe next week we can do even better.

(Our 15th voter is nwhoops1903 and he passed the 'no homers' rule with flying colors - he put Whitworth right where they finished in the poll! :))

POSTERS' POLL, Feb 7, 2010:

1.  Guilford          299 (11 1s, one 2)
2.  Williams         288 (the other 1, ten 2s, one 3)
3.  WashU           264 (2,3,3,3,3,3,4,4,4,5,5,9)
4.  VaWes           261 (3,3,3,4,4,4,4,4,5,5,7,7)
5.  Whitworth      243 (3,3,4,5,6,6,6,7,7,7,7,8)
6.  St. Thomas     241 (4,5,5,5,5,6,6,6,6,7,7,8)
7.  UWSP             233 (3,4,5,6,6,6,6,7,8,8,10,10)
8.  UWW              198 (7,8,8,9,9,10,10,10,10,11,11,11)
9.  Willy Pat         197 (5,6,9,9,9,10,11,11,11,11,11,12)
10 MIT                 191 (4,5,8,9,10,10,11,11,12,12,14,15)
11 EMU                172 (7,8,9,9,11,11,12,12,14,15,15,17)
12 Midd                167 (7,8,8,8,9,9,10,14,15,15,20,22)
13 Anderson        135 (12,12,13,13,14,14,14,15,15,17,18,20)
14 St. Norbs        134 (9,12,13,13,13,14,15,16,17,17,18,21)
15 Chapman        132 (8,10,13,13,13,14,15,16,18,19,20,21)
16 Randy Mac      123 (12,12,13,15,16,16,16,16,17,18,18,20)
17 Wooster          108 (13,14,15,15,16,16,17,18,18,19,19,24)
18 F & M                93 (12,13,14,16,16,17,17,18,18,-,-,-)
19 UT-Dallas          92 (10,13,17,17,18,19,19,20,20,20,22,25)
20 St. Mary's          73 (14,17,17,18,19,19,19,21,21,22,-,-)
21 IWU                   59 (14,20,20,20,21,21,21,22,23,23,24,24)
22 Carthage           58 (12,16,18,19,21,22,23,23,24,24,-,-)
23 Brandeis            38 (20,20,21,21,22,22,23,24,25,25,25,-)
24 Miss Col             21 (19,19,21,23,25)
25 Medaille             19 (16,22,24,24,25)

26 Cabrini              18 (21,22,23,24,24,25,25)
27 Stevens            10 (23,23,23,25)
28 Hope                  7 (19)
29 JCU                     6 (22,24)
t30 SJF                    4 (24,25,25)
t30 Colby                4 (23,25)
t30 Central             4 (22)
t30 Merch Mar         4 (22
34 UMHB                 3 (23)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 09, 2010, 08:04:17 PM
I was the Central outlier (17th power rating in Massey, 75 in SOS there too). I did get Anderson back in. Who chimed in for Merchant Marine? (52nd power, 238 SOS in Massey). Interesting.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 09, 2010, 08:41:17 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 09, 2010, 08:04:17 PM
I was the Central outlier (17th power rating in Massey, 75 in SOS there too). I did get Anderson back in. Who chimed in for Merchant Marine? (52nd power, 238 SOS in Massey). Interesting.

Well, you know I'm not gonna blab! ;)

But in defense of both of you, Central (11) and Merchant Marine (8) both received votes in the real poll.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: frodotwo on February 09, 2010, 08:44:27 PM
                                   Last
                                   Week
1.  Guilford          299    {1}                       (11 1s, one 2)
2.  Williams         288     {2}                        (the other 1, ten 2s, one 3)
3.  WashU           264    {4}                       (2,3,3,3,3,3,4,4,4,5,5,9)
4.  VaWes           261    {5}                        (3,3,3,4,4,4,4,4,5,5,7,7)
5.  Whitworth      243    {8}                         (3,3,4,5,6,6,6,7,7,7,7,8)
6.  St. Thomas     241   {7}                         (4,5,5,5,5,6,6,6,6,7,7,8)
7.  UWSP             233   {3}                       (3,4,5,6,6,6,6,7,8,8,10,10)
8.  UWW              198   {6}                      (7,8,8,9,9,10,10,10,10,11,11,11)
9.  Willy Pat         197    {9}                        (5,6,9,9,9,10,11,11,11,11,11,12)
10 MIT                 191   {10}                        (4,5,8,9,10,10,11,11,12,12,14,15)
11 EMU                172   {12}                         (7,8,9,9,11,11,12,12,14,15,15,17)
12 Midd                167   {13}                          (7,8,8,8,9,9,10,14,15,15,20,22)
13 Anderson        135   {16}                  (12,12,13,13,14,14,14,15,15,17,18,20)
14 St. Norbs        134   {11}                  (9,12,13,13,13,14,15,16,17,17,18,21)
15 Chapman        132   {15}                   (8,10,13,13,13,14,15,16,18,19,20,21)
16 Randy Mac      123   {18}              (12,12,13,15,16,16,16,16,17,18,18,20)
17 Wooster          108  {21}                (13,14,15,15,16,16,17,18,18,19,19,24)
18 F & M                93  {20}                  (12,13,14,16,16,17,17,18,18,-,-,-)
19 UT-Dallas          92   {14}            (10,13,17,17,18,19,19,20,20,20,22,25)
20 St. Mary's          73  {27}              (14,17,17,18,19,19,19,21,21,22,-,-)
21 IWU                   59  {23}             (14,20,20,20,21,21,21,22,23,23,24,24)
22 Carthage           58  {17}          (12,16,18,19,21,22,23,23,24,24,-,-)
23 Brandeis            38   {19}           (20,20,21,21,22,22,23,24,25,25,25,-)
24 Miss Col             21  {25}                (19,19,21,23,25)
25 Medaille             19   {22}                (16,22,24,24,25)

26 Cabrini              18    {31}               (21,22,23,24,24,25,25)
27 Stevens            10    {NV}               (23,23,23,25)
28 Hope                  7    {29}                (19)
29 JCU                     6   {31}                (22,24)
t30 SJF                    4    {29}                (24,25,25)
t30 Colby                4     {23}               (23,25)
t30 Central             4      {NV}               (22)
t30 Merch Mar         4     {NV}               (22)
34 UMHB                 3      {36}                (23)

Dropped out:  #26 Albright (7 voters 31 pts); #28 Lycoming; #31 Rochester; #34 Amherst; #34 Wilmington
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 09, 2010, 09:11:17 PM
I found the voting for three teams especially interesting.

Two-thirds of MIT voters put them in the 8-12 range, but there were also votes of 4,5 and 14,15.

A majority of voters had Midd in the top ten, but they also received votes of 20 and 22.

F & M finished 18th.  Three quarters of voters had them at least that high, but three voters omitted them completely.

The common denominator would seem to be that all have great records but very suspect schedules.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 09, 2010, 10:47:51 PM

I was more of an outlier this week than last, even though I named 23 of the 25 teams.

I was the high voter for Stevens Point, Whitewater, and TX-Dallas; I was the low voter for St. Thomas, WashU, and Middlebury.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 09, 2010, 10:54:26 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 09, 2010, 10:47:51 PM

I was more of an outlier this week than last, even though I named 23 of the 25 teams.

I was the high voter for Stevens Point, Whitewater, and TX-Dallas; I was the low voter for St. Thomas, WashU, and Middlebury.
In the long season, UTD is finding ways to win games.

They are a smart, disciplined well-coached team.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 09, 2010, 11:04:43 PM
I'm usually either completely within range or a one-time outlier. This week, I was the low outlier on Chapman. But I'm slightly worried that I was only one step away from HF on UW-Whitewater, UT-Dallas, and Middlebury. I feel as though I'm the anchor guy tethered to HF on the cliff face of Outlier Mountain.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 10, 2010, 12:27:19 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 09, 2010, 10:54:26 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 09, 2010, 10:47:51 PM

I was more of an outlier this week than last, even though I named 23 of the 25 teams.

I was the high voter for Stevens Point, Whitewater, and TX-Dallas; I was the low voter for St. Thomas, WashU, and Middlebury.
In the long season, UTD is finding ways to win games.

They are a smart, disciplined well-coached team.

I've learned that the ASC is a gauntlet.  Those long road trips can be killers.  A record like that in that conference speaks volumes.  They deserve the respect.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 10, 2010, 12:28:28 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 09, 2010, 11:04:43 PM
I'm usually either completely within range or a one-time outlier. This week, I was the low outlier on Chapman. But I'm slightly worried that I was only one step away from HF on UW-Whitewater, UT-Dallas, and Middlebury. I feel as though I'm the anchor guy tethered to HF on the cliff face of Outlier Mountain.

Hey, you're witnessing my massive comeback on the pick'em.  I may be more right than crazy this year.  Being close to Sager is evidence of that.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 10, 2010, 12:40:55 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 10, 2010, 12:28:28 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 09, 2010, 11:04:43 PM
I'm usually either completely within range or a one-time outlier. This week, I was the low outlier on Chapman. But I'm slightly worried that I was only one step away from HF on UW-Whitewater, UT-Dallas, and Middlebury. I feel as though I'm the anchor guy tethered to HF on the cliff face of Outlier Mountain.

Hey, you're witnessing my massive comeback on the pick'em.  I may be more right than crazy this year.  Being close to Sager is evidence of that.

There are some who would say that being close to Sager is a mental health warning sign. :P
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 10, 2010, 01:26:47 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 10, 2010, 12:40:55 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 10, 2010, 12:28:28 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 09, 2010, 11:04:43 PM
I'm usually either completely within range or a one-time outlier. This week, I was the low outlier on Chapman. But I'm slightly worried that I was only one step away from HF on UW-Whitewater, UT-Dallas, and Middlebury. I feel as though I'm the anchor guy tethered to HF on the cliff face of Outlier Mountain.

Hey, you're witnessing my massive comeback on the pick'em.  I may be more right than crazy this year.  Being close to Sager is evidence of that.

There are some who would say that being close to Sager is a mental health warning sign.

For most, perhaps, for me I think it's a step in the right direction.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 10, 2010, 04:19:22 AM
I was a bit of an outlier myself this week. I was the high vote on Wash U and the low vote on Williams. Also was the low voter on MIT and was one of the voters that omitted F&M, but then I've omitted them for the past 4 weeks. I put St. John Fisher in the 25th spot and dropped Colby. At least Fisher won tonight, which is better than some other teams that I've put in the 25th spot and promptly proceeded to lose their next game. I was in the middle of the pack with Middlebury as I had them in 10th and I already explained yesterday in a post why I like them as I've seen them play. I had 24 of the 25 teams, missing only F&M. I was close to Hoop Fan with the Pointers as I had them in 5th and Whitewater as I put them #8. Also with St. Thomas which I put in 7th. Had Willie Pat in 11th and I think that may be too high. Pretty sure that both Middlebury and Eastern Mennonite would handle Willie Pat if they played them, as well as a number of schools I've ranked below them. I have them where they are because of the St. Peter Principle but I won't float them any higher. MIT and Middlebury both played RPI at RPI. MIT barely escaped with a win 56-55 while Middlebury won by double digits 63-52. Still don't see MIT with a signature win. Beating WPI, a team that is 4-4 in the NEWMAC with losses to 7-14 Wheaton(Mass) and Babson 2-7 in the NEWMAC doesn't do it for me and MIT also lost to that same 7-14 Wheaton team. (Sorry Hugenerd I hope they prove me wrong)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 10, 2010, 09:54:18 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 10, 2010, 12:28:28 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 09, 2010, 11:04:43 PM
I'm usually either completely within range or a one-time outlier. This week, I was the low outlier on Chapman. But I'm slightly worried that I was only one step away from HF on UW-Whitewater, UT-Dallas, and Middlebury. I feel as though I'm the anchor guy tethered to HF on the cliff face of Outlier Mountain.

Hey, you're witnessing my massive comeback on the pick'em.  I may be more right than crazy this year.  Being close to Sager is evidence of that.

We're living in a crazy world when I'm the benchmark for prognosticating accuracy for two straight years. If I was a gambler, some burly goon from the mob would've broken my legs years ago.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 10, 2010, 10:06:55 AM
Sheesh... I was responsible for two orphans? At least they both got votes in the 'real' poll.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 10, 2010, 10:19:34 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 10, 2010, 09:54:18 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 10, 2010, 12:28:28 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 09, 2010, 11:04:43 PM
I'm usually either completely within range or a one-time outlier. This week, I was the low outlier on Chapman. But I'm slightly worried that I was only one step away from HF on UW-Whitewater, UT-Dallas, and Middlebury. I feel as though I'm the anchor guy tethered to HF on the cliff face of Outlier Mountain.

Hey, you're witnessing my massive comeback on the pick'em.  I may be more right than crazy this year.  Being close to Sager is evidence of that.

We're living in a crazy world when I'm the benchmark for prognosticating accuracy for two straight years. If I was a gambler, some burly goon from the mob would've broken my legs years ago.
In any case, your prognosications have been earth shaking (http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Maps/10/270_40.php), to say the least.   ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 10, 2010, 10:44:05 AM
A general question to the board...

Has the OAC fallen so far back into the pack of mediocrity that its conference leader does not even crack the formal Top 25 and it receives only 2 votes in the Posters Poll?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 10, 2010, 10:57:02 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 10, 2010, 10:19:34 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 10, 2010, 09:54:18 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 10, 2010, 12:28:28 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 09, 2010, 11:04:43 PM
I'm usually either completely within range or a one-time outlier. This week, I was the low outlier on Chapman. But I'm slightly worried that I was only one step away from HF on UW-Whitewater, UT-Dallas, and Middlebury. I feel as though I'm the anchor guy tethered to HF on the cliff face of Outlier Mountain.

Hey, you're witnessing my massive comeback on the pick'em.  I may be more right than crazy this year.  Being close to Sager is evidence of that.

We're living in a crazy world when I'm the benchmark for prognosticating accuracy for two straight years. If I was a gambler, some burly goon from the mob would've broken my legs years ago.
In any case, your prognosications have been earth shaking (http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Maps/10/270_40.php), to say the least.   ;)

It actually woke me up this morning. I thought that my upstairs neighbor had fallen out of bed.

Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 10, 2010, 10:44:05 AM
A general question to the board...

Has the OAC fallen so far back into the pack of mediocrity that its conference leader does not even crack the formal Top 25 and it receives only 2 votes in the Posters Poll?

Looks like it. The OAC has slumped this season in non-conference play, going 38-37 thus far. Last year it was 48-38, the year before a sparkling 54-29.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 10, 2010, 01:21:16 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 10, 2010, 10:44:05 AM
A general question to the board...

Has the OAC fallen so far back into the pack of mediocrity that its conference leader does not even crack the formal Top 25 and it receives only 2 votes in the Posters Poll?

I still think John Carroll is a top 20 team, but they only seem to play that way once in a while - which makes it hard for them to be ranked until they prove their ability in the post-season.

As for Wilimgton, they've been on a bit of a free fall the last month or so.

The only other team I think is good enough to consider is Heidelberg and they've been a mess in conference play.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 10, 2010, 02:38:48 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 09, 2010, 07:49:34 PM
(Our 15th voter is nwhoops1903 and he passed the 'no homers' rule with flying colors - he put Whitworth right where they finished in the poll! :))

22 Carthage           58 (12,16,18,19,21,22,23,23,24,24,-,-)

I didn't have Carthage at 12 or Chapman at 8..that's for sure.  ;)

Thx Mr. Y
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 11, 2010, 12:21:23 AM
Just when you thought things were sane in the Posters Poll then EMU blasts Guilford AT Guilford DURING White Out night.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 11, 2010, 01:55:08 AM
We.ve commented on the problems of ranking teams with great records, but suspect schedules.  We've talked about up-and-down Brandeis.  Now we have EMU! :P

They lost to Southern Va., but avenged the loss big time.  They've split with so-so HSC.  They lost to mediocre Bridgewater. But they also have trounced then #1 RMC by 23 at home, and now eviscerated #1 Guilford by 27 AT Guilford.!  Deciding where to place them is likely to be the hardest feat this week.

Also, had Guilford amassed enough credit to remain about #3, or do they drop further?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: dc_has_been on February 11, 2010, 08:02:54 AM
After a stomping like EMU gave them it will be hard for me to keep Guilford in the top 3.  Especially when I battled with who to have at number 1 this week with them and Williams.  For me it will be interesting to see how the week finishes to see who I'll have as my new number one team. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 11, 2010, 09:01:04 AM
The difficult part about ranking the ODAC is the top 3 teams have really only lost to themselves.

Virginia Wesleyan has lost to EMU and Guilford

Guilford has lost to EMU and Virginia Wesleyan

RMC has lost to EMU, VWU, and Guilford, plus one loss to Washington and Lee

EMU is the crazy one. They've beaten the other three, but they lost Southern Virginia, Bridgewater (Va.), and Hampden-Sydney.

It's really tough to get a beat on this group nationally. All I know is Guilford and Virginia Wesleyan will likely be right next to each other on my ballot, and they'll both be relatively high.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 11, 2010, 12:05:24 PM

Looks like I'll be starting from scratch all over again.  At least I have a lot less teams on the list now.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 12, 2010, 11:40:44 PM
Colby losing on the road to Williams and Midd was one thing (even with both being blowouts); tonite they lost at home to Conn College, who has an overall losing record and was 1-6 in the NESCAC!  They may have just played themselves out of a Pool C.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 14, 2010, 02:07:02 AM

This was a really tough week.  I did not replace any of my Top 25 (assuming Brandeis wins Sunday), but I did move some of the rankings around a bit.

I'm really not that confident in any team past #15 at this point.  I don't really think any of them are Top 25 worthy, but by default.

I agonized over my #1 for quite a while.  I think, despite the loss, Guilford is a very deserving team.  I also believe Williams is peaking and despite a schedule lacking a real top tier win, the fact that they've won often.  In a season when nearly every team has had at least one inexcusable loss - Williams' 5 point road loss to RMC seems the most excusable.

I am so glad we get to redo these every week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 14, 2010, 06:46:22 PM

My poll's in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 14, 2010, 06:50:03 PM
Mine, too.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hugenerd on February 14, 2010, 07:20:01 PM
Mine is in as well, WashU moved up considerably seeing as how Thompson has played 3 of the past 4 games.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 14, 2010, 07:49:33 PM
I'm in.  Guilford might take a beating this week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 14, 2010, 08:26:40 PM
Quote from: hugenerd on February 14, 2010, 07:20:01 PM
Mine is in as well, WashU moved up considerably seeing as how Thompson has played 3 of the past 4 games.

They'll get a boost from me; I finally came around.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pbrooks3 on February 14, 2010, 08:32:04 PM
Just submitted my poll.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 15, 2010, 12:01:44 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 14, 2010, 07:49:33 PM
I'm in.  Guilford might take a beating this week.

So far, not as much as you might think - in fact, after 7 ballots, yours is the low vote.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 15, 2010, 12:11:19 AM
Just sent mine in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: frodotwo on February 15, 2010, 08:57:38 AM
I'm in, but the lack of losses this week compared to previous weeks made movement for teams that won big games difficult.  And some that lost moved a lot farther down in many cases.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 15, 2010, 05:52:52 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 15, 2010, 12:01:44 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 14, 2010, 07:49:33 PM
I'm in.  Guilford might take a beating this week.

So far, not as much as you might think - in fact, after 7 ballots, yours is the low vote.
Surprising...and then not so much. :P  Did they not get crushed at home?  Thanks to Al Gore ::), I watched it myself.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 15, 2010, 05:58:29 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 15, 2010, 05:52:52 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 15, 2010, 12:01:44 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 14, 2010, 07:49:33 PM
I'm in.  Guilford might take a beating this week.

So far, not as much as you might think - in fact, after 7 ballots, yours is the low vote.
Surprising...and then not so much. :P  Did they not get crushed at home?  Thanks to Al Gore ::), I watched it myself.

After 10 ballots, there is now one 1 spot lower than yours, but they seem destined to finish 2 or 3 slots higher than you had them (I'm deliberately being cryptic so as not to influence voters who have not yet cast ballots).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 15, 2010, 06:02:05 PM
As noted above, we are now up to ten ballots, but have been frozen there for 8 hours.  I've heard from one voter who will not be able to participate this week, but that means we could still set the all-time PP record with 14 votes!  I'm hoping to at least tie the previous record of 13.  Don't let me down, guys! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: scout on February 15, 2010, 06:24:06 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 15, 2010, 06:02:05 PM
As noted above, we are now up to ten ballots, but have been frozen there for 8 hours.  I've heard from one voter who will not be able to participate this week, but that means we could still set the all-time PP record with 14 votes!  I'm hoping to at least tie the previous record of 13.  Don't let me down, guys! ;D

Mine's in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 15, 2010, 06:38:31 PM
you got mine, right?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 15, 2010, 06:47:03 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 15, 2010, 06:38:31 PM
you got mine, right?

Yeah, you were the 7th one in this week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 15, 2010, 07:56:02 PM

The d3hoops.com poll is now out.  Only three points separate first and second place.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 15, 2010, 08:06:51 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 15, 2010, 07:56:02 PM

The d3hoops.com poll is now out.  Only three points separate first and second place.

And, barring a monumental swing on the final 2-3 ballots, their #1 is not the PP #1. ;)

(Though the top two are pretty much guaranteed to be the same, just reversed.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 15, 2010, 10:37:35 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 15, 2010, 08:06:51 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 15, 2010, 07:56:02 PM

The d3hoops.com poll is now out.  Only three points separate first and second place.

And, barring a monumental swing on the final 2-3 ballots, their #1 is not the PP #1. ;)

(Though the top two are pretty much guaranteed to be the same, just reversed.)

Not surprised, considering where we had those schools last week.

PS - I am pretty sure I have an outlier, but it's not a homer vote. Like I would homer a vote for THAT school?

/no, it's not the school in Greendingle...but they share a nickname....
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 16, 2010, 03:47:48 PM
12 ballots in (and one known to be not coming) - that leaves two of you about two hours (unless you request an extension).  Ballots on the way?! ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 16, 2010, 05:27:03 PM
Mine will be in shortly, Chuck.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: dc_has_been on February 16, 2010, 06:18:57 PM
With Sager's that would tie the PP record!  Did you get that record breaking 14th Ypsi? 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 16, 2010, 06:40:47 PM
Quote from: dc_has_been on February 16, 2010, 06:18:57 PM
With Sager's that would tie the PP record!  Did you get that record breaking 14th Ypsi? 

No, I haven't heard either way from PS, so I'm guessing no ballot.

I see Greg posting all over the boards, while I'm still waiting for his ballot! :o  Being retired, I DO have all day (and I already know the results :)), but Hoops Fan gets cranky when the poll is delayed! ;D  Get 'er in, Greg!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 16, 2010, 07:21:26 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 16, 2010, 06:40:47 PM
Quote from: dc_has_been on February 16, 2010, 06:18:57 PM
With Sager's that would tie the PP record!  Did you get that record breaking 14th Ypsi?  

No, I haven't heard either way from PS, so I'm guessing no ballot.

I see Greg posting all over the boards, while I'm still waiting for his ballot! :o  Being retired, I DO have all day (and I already know the results :)), but Hoops Fan gets cranky when the poll is delayed! ;D  Get 'er in, Greg!

Sorry, but I've been trying to see if this would be the day I would break five digits on my post count. ;)

Sent my ballot to you five minutes ago, Chuck.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 16, 2010, 07:43:24 PM

At the risk of living up to the reputation...



Type faster Ypsi, Olympic coverage starts soon.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 16, 2010, 08:11:15 PM
POSTERS' POLL, Valentines Day, 2010:

1.  Williams         322 (11 1s, one 2, one 3)
2.  WashU           311 (two 1s, ten 2s, one 5)
3.  St. Thomas     280 (3,3,3,3,3,3,4,4,5,6,7,7,7)
4.  Guilford          277 (2,2,3,4,4,4,5,5,5,5,6,7,9)
5.  UWSP             272 (3,3,3,4,4,5,5,5,6,6,6,7,11)
6.  Whitworth      263 (3,4,4,4,5,6,6,6,7,7,7,8,8)
7.  VaWes           225 (5,6,6,6,7,8,8,8,9,11,11,14,14)
8.  EMU                223 (4,6,6,7,8,9,9,9,10,10,11,11,15)
9. WillyPat           220 (4,4,5,8,9,9,10,11,11,11,11,12,13)
10 UWW             217 (7,8,8,8,9,9,9,10,10,10,10,11,12)
11 MIT                205 (3,7,8,8,9,10,11,12,12,12,13,14,14)
12 Midd               192 (5,7,8,9,10,10,10,12,12,14,14,17,18)
13 RandyMac       163 (10,12,12,12,13,13,13,13,14,15,15,16,17)
14 St. Norbs        147 (11,12,13,14,14,14,15,15,15,15,15,18,20)
15 Chapman        146 (9,10,12,13,13,14,14,14,16,18,18,20,21)
t16 F & M              110 (12,15,15,15,16,16,16,16,16,17,23,25,-)
t16 UT-Dallas        110 (11,13,16,17,17,17,17,18,19,19,20,20,24)
18 St. Mary's         101 (13,15,16,17,17,18,18,18,19,19,20,21,-)
19 Anderson          89 (13,17,18,18,18,19,19,19,20,20,21,22,25)
20 Carthage          81 (13,16,16,16,19,19,20,21,22,23,23,23,-)
21 Wooster           65 (15,17,18,19,20,20,20,22,22,24,25,25,-)
22 Medaille            34 (16,17,21,22,22,25,25)
23 SJF                    30 (19,21,22,22,23,23,24,24)
24 IWU                  25 (20,21,22,22,24,24,24)
25 Cabrini              24 (20,21,21,23,23,25,25)

26 Brandeis           22 (19,19,22,24,24)
27 MissCol             14 (17,22,25)
28 MerchMar           13 (21,21,23)
t29 JCU                   12 (22,23,23,24)
t29 Central             12 (21,21,24)
31 Hope                   9 (18,25)
32 CMS                    6 (23,23)
t33 Gordon              2 (24)
t33 UMHB                2 (24)
t35 Stevens            1
t35 Wheaton           1
t35 Wittenberg        1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 16, 2010, 08:28:53 PM

Big jumps from 6-7, 12-13, 15-16, and 21-22.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 16, 2010, 08:33:42 PM

I voted WashU at #5 - that wasn't recorded properly.

Other than that, I was the high on TX-D, Anderson, Wooster, Mississippi College, St. John Fisher, and Stevens and the low on St. Norbert, Chapman, Middlebury and WashU
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on February 16, 2010, 08:57:37 PM
Had to work late tonight, sorry.

FWIW, my #1 would have gone to Wash U
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 16, 2010, 08:58:02 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 16, 2010, 08:33:42 PM

I voted WashU at #5 - that wasn't recorded properly.

Other than that, I was the high on TX-D, Anderson, Wooster, Mississippi College, St. John Fisher, and Stevens and the low on St. Norbert, Chapman, Middlebury and WashU

Fixed on the poll.  It was recorded properly, but not typed properly!  (Are you SURE you want me to type faster?! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 16, 2010, 09:12:16 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 16, 2010, 08:28:53 PM

Big jumps from 6-7, 12-13, 15-16, and 21-22.

True.  I doubt that 6-7 gap would have still been there if the poll was thru Monday!  [Only two ballots were sent after EMU thrashed VaWes - one pretty clearly ignored that result (VaWes was 7 slots above EMU), but the other had EMU 3 slots above VaWes (which may have also ignored that result).]

EMU did not have the largest spread of any team, but I suspect it was quite a problem slotting them.  But after Monday, I suspect they would have been in the 4-6 range.  20+ wins over RandyMac, Guilford, and VaWes will cause a lot of forgiveness for their 3 losses! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 16, 2010, 10:19:11 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 16, 2010, 09:12:16 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 16, 2010, 08:28:53 PM

Big jumps from 6-7, 12-13, 15-16, and 21-22.

True.  I doubt that 6-7 gap would have still been there if the poll was thru Monday!  [Only two ballots were sent after EMU thrashed VaWes - one pretty clearly ignored that result (VaWes was 7 slots above EMU), but the other had EMU 3 slots above VaWes (which may have also ignored that result).]

I was the latter, and, yeah, I ignored EMU's win over VWC Monday night. One of several tracking devices that I use for the purposes of the PP every week is Darryl Nester's "How They Fared" Top 25 update chart in the Top 25 room, which he updates every Sunday; that way, what I'm doing isn't contaminated by any post-Sunday contests.

Speaking of tracking devices, another one that I use -- Massey -- was instrumental in my decision to leapfrog Wash U above Williams this week. The SOS discrepancy between the two teams, combined with the impressive road trip by the Bears last weekend, was just too big for me to ignore.

Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 16, 2010, 08:33:42 PM

I voted WashU at #5 - that wasn't recorded properly.

Other than that, I was the high on TX-D, Anderson, Wooster, Mississippi College, St. John Fisher, and Stevens and the low on St. Norbert, Chapman, Middlebury and WashU

Wow. Just ... wow. I was the high vote on Randy Mac, and I was the only voter who gave the back of his hand to F&M, but I have nothing to worry about. I am clearly unfit even to iron Captain Outlier's cape. ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hugenerd on February 16, 2010, 10:26:31 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 16, 2010, 10:19:11 PM
Speaking of tracking devices, another one that I use -- Massey -- was instrumental in my decision to leapfrog Wash U above Williams this week. The SOS discrepancy between the two teams, combined with the impressive road trip by the Bears last weekend, was just too big for me to ignore.

Then again, Massey has Williams ahead of WashU in their overall rankings.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: frodotwo on February 16, 2010, 10:32:14 PM
POSTERS' POLL, Valentines Day, 2010:

                                       Last week

1.  Williams          322        {2}
2.  WashU            311        {3}
3.  St. Thomas      280        {6}
4.  Guilford           277        {1}
5.  UWSP              272        {7}
6.  Whitworth        263        {5}
7.  VaWes             225        {4}
8.  EMU                223        {11}
9. WillyPat            220        {9}
10 UWW               217        {8}
11 MIT                  205       {10}
12 Midd                192        {12}
13 RandyMac        163        {16}
14 St. Norbs         147        {14}
15 Chapman         146        {15}
t16 F & M             110        {18}
t16 UT-Dallas       110        {19}
18 St. Mary's        101        {20}
19 Anderson          89        {13}
20 Carthage          81         {22}
21 Wooster           65         {17}
22 Medaille           34         {25}
23 SJF                  30         {30}
24 IWU                 25        {21}
25 Cabrini              24       {26}

26 Brandeis           22        {23}
27 MissCol             14        {24}
28 MerchMar           13      {30}
t29 JCU                   12      {29}
t29 Central             12       {30}
31 Hope                   9       {28}
32 CMS                    6      {NV}
t33 Gordon              2        {NV}
t33 UMHB                2        {34}
t35 Stevens            1         {27}
t35 Wheaton           1         {NV}
t35 Wittenberg        1         {NV}

Dropped out: #30 Colby
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 16, 2010, 10:39:45 PM
Quote from: hugenerd on February 16, 2010, 10:26:31 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 16, 2010, 10:19:11 PM
Speaking of tracking devices, another one that I use -- Massey -- was instrumental in my decision to leapfrog Wash U above Williams this week. The SOS discrepancy between the two teams, combined with the impressive road trip by the Bears last weekend, was just too big for me to ignore.

Then again, Massey has Williams ahead of WashU in their overall rankings.

I use Massey as a tracking device, not as Holy Writ. ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 16, 2010, 11:07:46 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 16, 2010, 07:21:26 PM
Sorry, but I've been trying to see if this would be the day I would break five digits on my post count. ;)
Good work Sager!  I got a digit for you.  ;D  just kidding!!! :) ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 17, 2010, 07:09:15 AM
I was the other voter who had Wash U at #1 but I didn't leapfrog them over Williams as I've had the Bears at #2 for the past several weeks. I was the low voter on Williams leaving them at #3 where I had them last week. I only dropped Guilford 1 spot   I added Franklin & Marshall back into the rankings this week at #25 as they have reeled off 9 in a row and seem to be peaking for another run in the NCAA's.   
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 17, 2010, 09:46:39 AM
Quote from: magicman on February 17, 2010, 07:09:15 AM
I was the other voter who had Wash U at #1 but I didn't leapfrog them over Williams as I've had the Bears at #2 for the past several weeks. I was the low voter on Williams leaving them at #3 where I had them last week. I only dropped Guilford 1 spot ...  
Guilford got 2 #2's, yours and some other voter who must have missed them getting destroyed at home.  How did they not fail your sniff test after laying that egg?

Only other observation that struck me as odd was MIT #3?!?!  Wow!

Actually thought moving down 1 spot (Whitworth) was okay. I don't think we deserve to be ahead of W-SP.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 17, 2010, 11:31:19 AM

I only dropped Guilford to #2; I came very close to leaving them at #1.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hugenerd on February 17, 2010, 04:03:50 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 17, 2010, 09:46:39 AM
Quote from: magicman on February 17, 2010, 07:09:15 AM
I was the other voter who had Wash U at #1 but I didn't leapfrog them over Williams as I've had the Bears at #2 for the past several weeks. I was the low voter on Williams leaving them at #3 where I had them last week. I only dropped Guilford 1 spot ...  
Guilford got 2 #2's, yours and some other voter who must have missed them getting destroyed at home.  How did they not fail your sniff test after laying that egg?

Only other observation that struck me as odd was MIT #3?!?!  Wow!

Actually thought moving down 1 spot (Whitworth) was okay. I don't think we deserve to be ahead of W-SP.

If you look at last week's poll, you will see that MIT had a #4 and a #5 vote, so it shouldnt be that huge of a surprise to see them at #3, based on losses ahead of them.

http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4188.1860
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 17, 2010, 04:27:13 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 17, 2010, 09:46:39 AM
Quote from: magicman on February 17, 2010, 07:09:15 AM
I was the other voter who had Wash U at #1 but I didn't leapfrog them over Williams as I've had the Bears at #2 for the past several weeks. I was the low voter on Williams leaving them at #3 where I had them last week. I only dropped Guilford 1 spot ...  
Guilford got 2 #2's, yours and some other voter who must have missed them getting destroyed at home.  How did they not fail your sniff test after laying that egg?

Only other observation that struck me as odd was MIT #3?!?!  Wow!

Actually thought moving down 1 spot (Whitworth) was okay. I don't think we deserve to be ahead of W-SP.

Both of Guilford's guards had a bad night shooting from the field against EMU. That happens occasionally. But their overall record is still one of the best in the country and they are playing in one of the toughest conferences in Division III this year. This team made it to the Final Four last year and returned the top 3 players from that team. They have a better record this year than they did last year at this point and I believe the league is stonger this year than last year. No other conference has had 4 members in the Top 25 much less 4 in the Top 11 as the ODAC did in week # 8. They still have 4 in the top 16 even after beating each other up. Williams lost to 3rd place Randy-Macon (actually in 4th with the tiebreaker) and if they played in the ODAC this year I think they would have more losses than Guilford. How about you? Any outliers you wish to own up to? ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hugenerd on February 17, 2010, 04:47:09 PM
Quote from: magicman on February 17, 2010, 04:27:13 PM
No other conference has had 4 members in the Top 25 much less 4 in the Top 11 as the ODAC did in week # 8.

At one time. ;)  NESCAC has had 4 seperate teams in the top 25 over the entire season (Williams, Midd, Amherst, Colby) and so has the CCIW (Carthage, IWU, Wheaton, Augie). Obviously none of those to the level that the ODAC has had 4 teams ranked  very high and consistently.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 18, 2010, 09:59:14 AM
Quote from: magicman on February 17, 2010, 04:27:13 PM

Both of Guilford's guards had a bad night shooting from the field against EMU. That happens occasionally. But their overall record is still one of the best in the country and they are playing in one of the toughest conferences in Division III this year. This team made it to the Final Four last year and returned the top 3 players from that team. They have a better record this year than they did last year at this point and I believe the league is stonger this year than last year...

How about you? Any outliers you wish to own up to? ;)
I think I am seeing a trend here.  Previous success in March is factoring into voters minds much more heavily as March grows closer.  Makes sense in many ways but shouldn't in others.  Insiders and outsiders...

Being a newbie to the poll, I am trying to be as vanilla as possible so outliers might be few and far between.  I promise to confess any +/- 4 spot outliers I submit.  :o
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 18, 2010, 11:26:45 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 18, 2010, 09:59:14 AM
Quote from: magicman on February 17, 2010, 04:27:13 PM

Both of Guilford's guards had a bad night shooting from the field against EMU. That happens occasionally. But their overall record is still one of the best in the country and they are playing in one of the toughest conferences in Division III this year. This team made it to the Final Four last year and returned the top 3 players from that team. They have a better record this year than they did last year at this point and I believe the league is stonger this year than last year...

How about you? Any outliers you wish to own up to? ;)
I think I am seeing a trend here.  Previous success in March is factoring into voters minds much more heavily as March grows closer.   Makes sense in many ways but shouldn't in others.  Insiders and outsiders...

Being a newbie to the poll, I am trying to be as vanilla as possible so outliers might be few and far between.  I promise to confess any +/- 4 spot outliers I submit.  :o
IMHO, high quality programs with outstanding coaches are getting each new team with its varied casts of characters to function as playoff-quality units.

When a team is getting to post-season form (again), it only makes sense to consider them in the rankings.  The pretenders have begun to show signs of faltering by now, in many cases.   :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 18, 2010, 09:46:58 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 18, 2010, 09:59:14 AM
Quote from: magicman on February 17, 2010, 04:27:13 PM

Both of Guilford's guards had a bad night shooting from the field against EMU. That happens occasionally. But their overall record is still one of the best in the country and they are playing in one of the toughest conferences in Division III this year. This team made it to the Final Four last year and returned the top 3 players from that team. They have a better record this year than they did last year at this point and I believe the league is stonger this year than last year...

How about you? Any outliers you wish to own up to? ;)
I think I am seeing a trend here.  Previous success in March is factoring into voters minds much more heavily as March grows closer.  Makes sense in many ways but shouldn't in others.  Insiders and outsiders...

In most cases, I agree with you: This year's poll should reflect this year's performance. But I think that there's something to be said for postseason experience for the specific players involved becoming a factor at this time of the year. In other words, I think it's valid for people to start boosting up Wash U a bit once the Bears get back on track, because this specific group of Bears has the kind of postseason experience on its collective resume that hasn't been equaled over the past thirty years. To a lesser degree I think it may be valid for Guilford as well. But I don't think it's valid to, say, give this year's UWSP team the same benefit of the doubt as Wash U because the Pointers won back-to-back titles in the middle of the past decade, since none of the players who were involved in those Pointers championships are still on the team.

Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 18, 2010, 09:59:14 AM
Being a newbie to the poll, I am trying to be as vanilla as possible so outliers might be few and far between.  I promise to confess any +/- 4 spot outliers I submit.  :o

Any confessions here are strictly voluntary. I publicly note my outliers in order to reassure myself that Hoops Fan is continuing to make me look mundane and boring. ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 18, 2010, 10:33:34 PM
UMHB 68, at Sul Ross State 65. Final.

The road trip to Alpine TX is always hard.  The NCAA lists that trip at 413 miles.  All of the "Google maps" trips that I can configure have the drive at 8+ hours.

More importantly, Belton is at 509'; Alpine TX is at 4475', nearly 4000 feet in elevation higher.  Only Colorado College is at a higher elevation than Sul Ross.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 18, 2010, 10:40:26 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 18, 2010, 09:46:58 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 18, 2010, 09:59:14 AM
I think I am seeing a trend here.  Previous success in March is factoring into voters minds much more heavily as March grows closer.  Makes sense in many ways but shouldn't in others.  Insiders and outsiders...

In most cases, I agree with you: This year's poll should reflect this year's performance. But I think that there's something to be said for postseason experience for the specific players involved becoming a factor at this time of the year. In other words, I think it's valid for people to start boosting up Wash U a bit once the Bears get back on track, because this specific group of Bears has the kind of postseason experience on its collective resume that hasn't been equaled over the past thirty years. To a lesser degree I think it may be valid for Guilford as well. But I don't think it's valid to, say, give this year's UWSP team the same benefit of the doubt as Wash U because the Pointers won back-to-back titles in the middle of the past decade, since none of the players who were involved in those Pointers championships are still on the team.
What about coaches with significant tournament experience and success?  I think that is pretty big factor, perhaps as much as players.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 19, 2010, 12:43:08 AM
I go the other way...

If you're good, you're good. Doesn't matter if you've been there every year or never.

Just remember the big hoo-hah regarding the Saints kicker in the NFC Championship game. Joe Buck went on and on and on and on about him not being proven....oh well...
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 19, 2010, 06:44:29 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 18, 2010, 10:40:26 PM
What about coaches with significant tournament experience and success?  I think that is pretty big factor, perhaps as much as players.

Tell that to G-Rob over at F&M. ;) Four trips to the Final Four, zero national championships. Or tell it to the coaches at Salem State, Maryville, and Christopher Newport who made all of those dance appearances and almost never made any headway once the tournament actually started every year.

I don't think that the tournament experience of the particular coaches involved is a big enough factor to be measured in polling.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 20, 2010, 08:01:46 PM

Ok, I'm really going to screw up the curve this week.  I've just given up.  There are five teams at the top of my list (Williams, WashU, Guilford, St. Thomas, and Point) whom I would give a split #1 to if Ypsi would let me.

After that, there are nine teams I have varying levels of confidence in, but who seem to have shown their mettle against good competition.

From there I'm just going to be completely subjective and choose teams who seems to be playing well right now or who have put together a good run.

If there are any more losses tonight, I swear I'm voting for Hanover at #25.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 20, 2010, 11:57:59 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 20, 2010, 08:01:46 PM

Ok, I'm really going to screw up the curve this week.  I've just given up.  There are five teams at the top of my list (Williams, WashU, Guilford, St. Thomas, and Point) whom I would give a split #1 to if Ypsi would let me.

After that, there are nine teams I have varying levels of confidence in, but who seem to have shown their mettle against good competition.

From there I'm just going to be completely subjective and choose teams who seems to be playing well right now or who have put together a good run.

If there are any more losses tonight, I swear I'm voting for Hanover at #25.


Three hours later and nearly everything in this post is obsolete.  Crazy.  Hanover may still end up with one point, though.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: dc_has_been on February 21, 2010, 12:22:51 AM
Hanover winning 9 in a row in what I feel to be an above average conference is worthy.  They are a very dangerous team with some. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 21, 2010, 12:26:11 AM
Quote from: dc_has_been on February 21, 2010, 12:22:51 AM
Hanover winning 9 in a row in what I feel to be an above average conference is worthy.  They are a very dangerous team with some.  

You're right; it's not crazy enough.  If Brandeis loses tomorrow I'm having a coin flip between Oneonta State and SUNYIT.  Maybe even if Brandeis wins.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 21, 2010, 02:02:39 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 21, 2010, 12:26:11 AM
Quote from: dc_has_been on February 21, 2010, 12:22:51 AM
Hanover winning 9 in a row in what I feel to be an above average conference is worthy.  They are a very dangerous team with some.  

You're right; it's not crazy enough.  If Brandeis loses tomorrow I'm having a coin flip between Oneonta State and SUNYIT.  Maybe even if Brandeis wins.
at Emory 64, Brandeis 63.

Do you have a favorite coin that you use when you resort to coin flips?   :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: scout on February 21, 2010, 02:03:44 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 21, 2010, 02:02:39 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 21, 2010, 12:26:11 AM
Quote from: dc_has_been on February 21, 2010, 12:22:51 AM
Hanover winning 9 in a row in what I feel to be an above average conference is worthy.  They are a very dangerous team with some.  

You're right; it's not crazy enough.  If Brandeis loses tomorrow I'm having a coin flip between Oneonta State and SUNYIT.  Maybe even if Brandeis wins.
at Emory 64, Brandeis 63.

Do you have a favorite coin that you use when you resort to coin flips?   :D

This year, I think the coin has about 15 sides.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 21, 2010, 06:15:27 PM

My ballot is in.  I cannot remember a time I've so looked forward to all these conference tournaments with the hope that they might actually sort things out rather than mess things up.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 22, 2010, 12:20:52 AM
Or, like me, you just deal with whatever the Lords of Sport bring ya. No angst here if my #1-10 goes down. Happens.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 22, 2010, 03:22:30 AM
My ballot is in. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: dc_has_been on February 22, 2010, 01:49:08 PM
My ballot is in and this was a difficult week for me again. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 22, 2010, 02:16:55 PM

I'm predicting at least three orphans for me this week and perhaps double digit outliers.

I am really looking forward to the tournament (although not to picking a bracket for the pool).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 22, 2010, 06:56:49 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 22, 2010, 02:16:55 PM

I'm predicting at least three orphans for me this week and perhaps double digit outliers.

With 7 ballots in, you're sitting currently with 3 orphans (and one more picked by only 1 other), though I suspect you'll end with only one orphan.  Other than orphans (who knows whether they are double-digit outliers?!), you have no outliers in double-digits (though your #15 team is so far an orphan, so that would definitely be double-digits if no one else names them).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 22, 2010, 08:57:33 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 22, 2010, 06:56:49 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 22, 2010, 02:16:55 PM

I'm predicting at least three orphans for me this week and perhaps double digit outliers.

With 7 ballots in, you're sitting currently with 3 orphans (and one more picked by only 1 other), though I suspect you'll end with only one orphan.  Other than orphans (who knows whether they are double-digit outliers?!), you have no outliers in double-digits (though your #15 team is so far an orphan, so that would definitely be double-digits if no one else names them).

I meant not how far an outlier, but how many teams for which my vote is singularly high or low.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 22, 2010, 09:29:26 PM
Thanks to Darryl Nester!

Mine is in.   :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 22, 2010, 11:15:05 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 22, 2010, 08:57:33 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 22, 2010, 06:56:49 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 22, 2010, 02:16:55 PM

I'm predicting at least three orphans for me this week and perhaps double digit outliers.

With 7 ballots in, you're sitting currently with 3 orphans (and one more picked by only 1 other), though I suspect you'll end with only one orphan.  Other than orphans (who knows whether they are double-digit outliers?!), you have no outliers in double-digits (though your #15 team is so far an orphan, so that would definitely be double-digits if no one else names them).

I meant not how far an outlier, but how many teams for which my vote is singularly high or low.

Ah, got it.  You may be right - a quick scan shows FIFTEEN outliers after 8 ballots (though several by only a slot or two, so that will probably go down a bit).  Your nickname appears safe! ;D

You are down to only two orphans, however.  Ballot #8 had your #15, and I strongly suspect someone will soon name your #23 (I had 'em about 27 or 28).  My hunch is that your #24 is to remain an orphan. ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 23, 2010, 12:36:54 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 22, 2010, 11:15:05 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 22, 2010, 08:57:33 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 22, 2010, 06:56:49 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 22, 2010, 02:16:55 PM

I'm predicting at least three orphans for me this week and perhaps double digit outliers.

With 7 ballots in, you're sitting currently with 3 orphans (and one more picked by only 1 other), though I suspect you'll end with only one orphan.  Other than orphans (who knows whether they are double-digit outliers?!), you have no outliers in double-digits (though your #15 team is so far an orphan, so that would definitely be double-digits if no one else names them).

I meant not how far an outlier, but how many teams for which my vote is singularly high or low.

Ah, got it.  You may be right - a quick scan shows FIFTEEN outliers after 8 ballots (though several by only a slot or two, so that will probably go down a bit).  Your nickname appears safe!

You are down to only two orphans, however.  Ballot #8 had your #15, and I strongly suspect someone will soon name your #23 (I had 'em about 27 or 28).  My hunch is that your #24 is to remain an orphan.

Wait, you mean the #25 isn't an orphan?  I knew I should have gone with SUNYIT.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 23, 2010, 12:46:09 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 23, 2010, 12:36:54 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 22, 2010, 11:15:05 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 22, 2010, 08:57:33 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 22, 2010, 06:56:49 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 22, 2010, 02:16:55 PM

I'm predicting at least three orphans for me this week and perhaps double digit outliers.

With 7 ballots in, you're sitting currently with 3 orphans (and one more picked by only 1 other), though I suspect you'll end with only one orphan.  Other than orphans (who knows whether they are double-digit outliers?!), you have no outliers in double-digits (though your #15 team is so far an orphan, so that would definitely be double-digits if no one else names them).

I meant not how far an outlier, but how many teams for which my vote is singularly high or low.

Ah, got it.  You may be right - a quick scan shows FIFTEEN outliers after 8 ballots (though several by only a slot or two, so that will probably go down a bit).  Your nickname appears safe!

You are down to only two orphans, however.  Ballot #8 had your #15, and I strongly suspect someone will soon name your #23 (I had 'em about 27 or 28).  My hunch is that your #24 is to remain an orphan.

Wait, you mean the #25 isn't an orphan?  I knew I should have gone with SUNYIT.

SUNYIT might lose to UDallas in the NEAC Semis on Saturday.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pbrooks3 on February 23, 2010, 01:03:43 AM
Submitted my poll for this week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 23, 2010, 03:59:11 PM
Barely two hours to go, and still only NINE ballots!  C'mon you other six voters! :(
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 23, 2010, 04:06:20 PM
Chill, Chuck. Mine's almost ready.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 23, 2010, 04:20:04 PM
Hey, nagging DOES work! ;D  Within 15 minutes I received a 'sorry, can't this week', a ballot, and a promise of a ballot!  That leaves 3 voters unknown.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 23, 2010, 04:25:32 PM
Mine's in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: scout on February 23, 2010, 04:30:33 PM
Mine's in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 23, 2010, 04:39:10 PM
We now have 12 ballots (and one voter known to be out this week); that leaves two unknown.  Any more ballots coming?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 23, 2010, 05:12:51 PM
The voter 'known to be out' has come through with our record-tying 13th ballot after all!  Perhaps his heroic sacrifice (though he asked not to be named as his boss might not see it that way! ;)) will inspire frodotwo or Point Special to submit the record breaker! :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 23, 2010, 06:19:53 PM
Well, no word either way so far - I'll give 15 more minutes before beginning to type the results.  A new all-time record sure would be nice! ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on February 23, 2010, 07:03:08 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 23, 2010, 06:19:53 PM
Well, no word either way so far - I'll give 15 more minutes before beginning to type the results.  A new all-time record sure would be nice! ;)

I'll put forth a final ballot, but work's just way too hectic right now for me to do anything else.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 23, 2010, 07:21:18 PM
We tied the record, but I really hoped we could break it.

POSTERS' POLL, Feb. 21, 2010:

1. Williams       318 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,2,3,3)
2. WashU         314 (1,1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2,2,2,3,4)
3. St. Thomas   290 (2,3,3,3,3,3,3,4,4,4,5,5,6)
4. Guilford        287 (2,2,3,3,3,4,4,4,4,5,5,5,7)
5. Whitworth    274 (3,4,4,4,4,4,5,5,5,6,6,6,8)
6. EMU              250 (2,5,5,6,6,6,6,7,8,9,9,9,10)
7. UWW            241 (6,6,6,7,7,7,7,8,8,8,8,9,10)
8. UWSP           232 (5,6,7,7,7,8,8,8,9,9,10,10,12)
9. Midd              224 (5,5,6,7,7,8,8,9,9,10,11,12,17)
10 VaWes         199 (8,10,10,10,10,10,10,11,11,11,12,13,13)
11 Willy Pat       175 (7,8,9,11,11,11,12,12,13,16,16,18,19)
12 Chapman      164 (7,9,11,11,12,12,14,14,14,14,16,19,21)
13 Randy Mac    146 (10,12,13,13,14,15,15,15,16,16,17,18,18)
14 UT-Dallas      142 (9,11,12,12,14,15,15,15,16,17,19,19,22)
15 MIT               139 (9,11,13,13,14,14,15,15,15,17,18,19,-)
16 Carthage      128 (11,11,12,13,13,13,16,18,18,19,20,20,-)
17 St.Mary's       125 (9,10,12,12,13,14,14,17,18,19,23,-,-)
18 St. Norbert     108 (13,15,16,16,17,17,18,18,19,20,20,20,21)
19 Wooster         105 (14,14,15,16,16,17,17,18,19,19,21,21,-)
20 F & M                63 (13,16,17,18,18,20,21,22,-,-,-,-,-)
21 Cabrini             53 (14,17,17,19,21,22,23,24,25,25,-,-,-)
t22 SJF                 50 (19,20,20,20,21,21,21,21,23,25,25,-,-)
t22 Anderson       50 (15,20,21,21,21,22,22,22,22,24,-,-,-)
24 JCU                 40 (16,18,22,22,22,23,23,24,24,-,-,-,-)
25 Central           28 (20,20,23,23,23,23,24,25,25,-,-,-,-)

26 Merchant Mar  17 (17,20,24)
27 UMHB               14 (15,23)
28 Defiance           10 (22,22,24)
29 Gordon              9 (19,22)
30 Oneonta St.      5 (22,25)
31 IWU                  4 (24,24)
t32 Calvin              3 (24,25)
t32 DeSales           3 (23)
t32 Maryville          3 (23)
t32 Wheaton         3 (23)
t36 Hanover           2 (24)
t36 Rutgers-Newark 2 (24)
t38 Brandeis             1
t38 Hope                  1
t38 Medaille              1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 23, 2010, 07:49:49 PM

Two orphans and seven outlier, much more conformity than I expected.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 23, 2010, 08:34:10 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 23, 2010, 07:49:49 PM

Two orphans and seven outlier, much more conformity than I expected.

And while I expected that Hanover would remain an outlier, I'm quite surprised than Maryville never got any other support.  I VERY strongly considered them.

I was surprised that my Wheaton pick remained an orphan - they are on a roll lately.  (But thanks to the two voters for my Titans; out of loyalty I'm picking them for the AQ (why have to root against my own pick! :D), but I don't think they currently deserve top 25 votes. :()

Doing the PP is several hours of 'work', but it is also a lot of fun seeing the standings emerge.  Williams jumped out to an almost insurmountable lead, but WashU came within two points of overtaking them.  The race for third went back-and-forth several times.  Chapman led Willy Pat right up through 10 ballots, before a late surge made it look hardly even close.  Merchant Marine was a lowly 2-point orphan right up to the last two ballots; Defiance was never even named until the last 3 of 4  ballots.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 23, 2010, 09:14:11 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 23, 2010, 07:49:49 PM

Two orphans and seven outlier, much more conformity than I expected.

I'm willing to bet that your title of Captain Outlier is still secure, though. This was the most wayward week for me that I can remember, and all I had was one high outlier (Texas-Dallas), two ties for high (Carthage and Central), and a tie for low (Virginia Wesleyan). And the Central and Virginia Wesleyan outliers don't really count, because the selection range of the two teams was so narrow.

I nailed six picks right on the nose -- and only four of 'em were in the top ten.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 23, 2010, 09:20:39 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 23, 2010, 09:14:11 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 23, 2010, 07:49:49 PM

Two orphans and seven outlier, much more conformity than I expected.

I'm willing to bet that your title of Captain Outlier is still secure, though. This was the most wayward week for me that I can remember, and all I had was one high outlier (Texas-Dallas), two ties for high (Carthage and Central), and a tie for low (Virginia Wesleyan). And the Central and Virginia Wesleyan outliers don't really count, because the selection range of the two teams was so narrow.

I nailed six picks right on the nose -- and only four of 'em were in the top ten.

Yeah, I don't see his title disappearing!  No one else had more than one orphan, and (while I haven't run through everyone), 7 outliers is probably safe.  I AM surprised that his Maryville pick remained an orphan.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: frodotwo on February 23, 2010, 09:56:58 PM
POSTERS' POLL, Feb. 21, 2010:

                               Last Wk/Votes

1. Williams       318     {1 – 322}
2. WashU         314     {2 – 311}
3. St. Thomas   290     {3 – 280}
4. Guilford        287     {4 - 277}
5. Whitworth    274     {6 – 263}
6. EMU              250    {8 - 223}
7. UWW            241    {10 – 217}
8. UWSP           232    {5 – 272}(-40)
9. Midd              224   {12 – 192}
10 VaWes         199    {7 - 225}
11 Willy Pat       175    {9 – 220} (-45)
12 Chapman      164    {15 – 146}
13 Randy Mac    146    {13 – 163}
14 UT-Dallas      142    {16 – 110}
15 MIT               139   {11 – 205}  (-66)                     
16 Carthage      128     {20 – 81} (+47)                       
17 St.Mary's       125    {18 – 101}                       
18 St. Norbert     108    {14 – 147}(-39)                           
19 Wooster         105    {21 – 65}  (+40)                       
20 F & M                63  {16 – 110} (-47)                     
21 Cabrini             53   {25 – 24}                         
t22 SJF                 50   {23 – 30}                           
t22 Anderson       50    {19 – 89} (-39)                   
24 JCU                 40   {29 – 12}
25 Central           28    {29 – 12}

26 Merchant Mar  17    {28 – 13}
27 UMHB               14  {33 – 2}
28 Defiance           10  {NV}
29 Gordon              9   {33 – 2}
30 Oneonta St.      5    {NV}
31 IWU                  4   {24 – 25}
t32 Calvin              3   {NV}
t32 DeSales           3   {NV}
t32 Maryville          3   {NV}
t32 Wheaton         3    {35 - 1}
t36 Hanover           2   {NV}
t36 Rutgers-Newark 2  {NV}
t38 Brandeis             1 {26 – 22}
t38 Hope                  1 {31 – 9}
t38 Medaille              1 {22-34}

Dropped out: #27 Miss College; #32 CMS; #35 Stevens; #35 Wittenberg
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 23, 2010, 10:15:49 PM
Holy cow!

I resisted the temptation to cast a #25 homer vote for Wabash, so I wound up that everyone in my top 25 is IN the top 25.

So much for iconoclasm...
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: scottiedoug on February 24, 2010, 05:57:46 PM
I follow you posters' work and enjoy it.  A question, though.  Chapman and Maryville are most likely going to be the Pool B teams.  Do y'all really think Chapman is 20 places better than Maryville?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 24, 2010, 06:28:29 PM
Quote from: scottiedoug on February 24, 2010, 05:57:46 PM
I follow you posters' work and enjoy it.  A question, though.  Chapman and Maryville are most likely going to be the Pool B teams.  Do y'all really think Chapman is 20 places better than Maryville?

It's really hard to say (and, personally, I've only got Chapman about 15 slots higher ;)).  Chapman, being in d3 Siberia, has hardly played anyone of note, but keeps winning and has 'drifted up' as teams above them lose.  Maryville has no real signature wins, but more wins over decent teams than Chapman.  I think their two game losing streak a month ago hurt them just as they were beginning to 'drift up' (and losing early by almost 30 to the only excellent team on their schedule didn't help get them started).  Teams with excellent records against mostly weak competition are notoriously hard to rank.

Fortunately, it appears likely both will get to show whether they are as good as their records soon!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 24, 2010, 06:30:44 PM
Quote from: scottiedoug on February 24, 2010, 05:57:46 PM
I follow you posters' work and enjoy it.  A question, though.  Chapman and Maryville are most likely going to be the Pool B teams.  Do y'all really think Chapman is 20 places better than Maryville?

I don't think they're far apart at all.  Maryville may even be better.  Maryville started strong and seem to finishing strong.  Chapman has played no one of consequence for two months - tough to maintain a level of consistency with that schedule.

Really, we don't know how good either team is right now.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 24, 2010, 06:33:49 PM
And we may not be able to tell anything more after the playoffs.

Chapman may play the SCIAC champion in the first round and the winner may be flown to a Top 5 Whitworth, which may get a bye.

Maryville may be sent to the ODAC/USA South/Maryville bracket as a #3 seed.  (USA South would be the #4 seed in the pod.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 24, 2010, 06:45:22 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 24, 2010, 06:30:44 PM
Quote from: scottiedoug on February 24, 2010, 05:57:46 PM
I follow you posters' work and enjoy it.  A question, though.  Chapman and Maryville are most likely going to be the Pool B teams.  Do y'all really think Chapman is 20 places better than Maryville?

I don't think they're far apart at all.  Maryville may even be better.  Maryville started strong and seem to finishing strong.  Chapman has played no one of consequence for two months - tough to maintain a level of consistency with that schedule.

Really, we don't know how good either team is right now.

I know Hoops thinks they're close - he was by far the low outlier for Chapman, and cast the only ballot for Maryville! :D

But let's leave the Chapman schedule-bashing to OxyBob (who probably won't continue, since Pat has given him 'warning' about his obsession!) - once the SCIAC begins conference play, who can they schedule?  But you're right - though it is not their fault, being ready for the tourney may be difficult.

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 24, 2010, 06:48:57 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 24, 2010, 06:45:22 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 24, 2010, 06:30:44 PM
Quote from: scottiedoug on February 24, 2010, 05:57:46 PM
I follow you posters' work and enjoy it.  A question, though.  Chapman and Maryville are most likely going to be the Pool B teams.  Do y'all really think Chapman is 20 places better than Maryville?

I don't think they're far apart at all.  Maryville may even be better.  Maryville started strong and seem to finishing strong.  Chapman has played no one of consequence for two months - tough to maintain a level of consistency with that schedule.

Really, we don't know how good either team is right now.

I know Hoops thinks they're close - he was by far the low outlier for Chapman, and cast the only ballot for Maryville!

But let's leave the Chapman schedule-bashing to OxyBob (who probably won't continue, since Pat has given him 'warning' about his obsession!) - once the SCIAC begins conference play, who can they schedule?  But you're right - though it is not their fault, being ready for the tourney may be difficult.

Don't lump me in with Bob.  I didn't bash the schedule.  I was just stating facts.  It has to be hard maintaining a high level of play against lesser opponents.  Neither Chapman or Maryville gave us much by which to evaluate them over the last month.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 24, 2010, 06:53:02 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 24, 2010, 06:45:22 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 24, 2010, 06:30:44 PM
Quote from: scottiedoug on February 24, 2010, 05:57:46 PM
I follow you posters' work and enjoy it.  A question, though.  Chapman and Maryville are most likely going to be the Pool B teams.  Do y'all really think Chapman is 20 places better than Maryville?

I don't think they're far apart at all.  Maryville may even be better.  Maryville started strong and seem to finishing strong.  Chapman has played no one of consequence for two months - tough to maintain a level of consistency with that schedule.

Really, we don't know how good either team is right now.

I know Hoops thinks they're close - he was by far the low outlier for Chapman

"By far"? HF had the Panthers 21st. I had them 19th. Two spots doesn't strike me as a leap big enough to qualify for a "by far" directed at HF.

Incidentally, it's an outlier for which I applaud Captain Outlier. It's been gnawing at me that even having Chapman at the modest position of 19th on my last ballot may be an egregious case of St. Peter Principle on my part.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 24, 2010, 07:07:10 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 24, 2010, 06:53:02 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 24, 2010, 06:45:22 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 24, 2010, 06:30:44 PM
Quote from: scottiedoug on February 24, 2010, 05:57:46 PM
I follow you posters' work and enjoy it.  A question, though.  Chapman and Maryville are most likely going to be the Pool B teams.  Do y'all really think Chapman is 20 places better than Maryville?

I don't think they're far apart at all.  Maryville may even be better.  Maryville started strong and seem to finishing strong.  Chapman has played no one of consequence for two months - tough to maintain a level of consistency with that schedule.

Really, we don't know how good either team is right now.

I know Hoops thinks they're close - he was by far the low outlier for Chapman

"By far"? HF had the Panthers 21st. I had them 19th. Two spots doesn't strike me as a leap big enough to qualify for a "by far" directed at HF.

Incidentally, it's an outlier for which I applaud Captain Outlier. It's been gnawing at me that even having Chapman at the modest position of 19th on my last ballot may be an egregious case of St. Peter Principle on my part.

You're right - I should have re-checked my tallies.  Until your ballot, the next lowest was 16th.  I agree they are probably too high, but they can only play who they have scheduled, and the schedule is largely out of their control.  They even tried 'hard' during the 'snowbird' days, but recent-power Elmhurst turned into a pumpkin this year! ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 24, 2010, 07:11:05 PM
Oh, I certainly don't mean for my comment to be misinterpreted as a dig at Chapman. The Panthers can't be faulted for being the recipients of the St. Peter Principle by me or by anybody else. You can only play the teams that are on your schedule, and Chapman's difficulties in filling out its schedule are well-documented -- and, as you noted, Elmhurst would've seemed like a great scheduling coup as recently as a year ago.

Nevertheless, the Chapman schedule is what it is. You can't get extra credit for good intentions.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 24, 2010, 07:17:40 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 24, 2010, 07:11:05 PM
Oh, I certainly don't mean for my comment to be misinterpreted as a dig at Chapman. The Panthers can't be faulted for being the recipients of the St. Peter Principle by me or by anybody else. You can only play the teams that are on your schedule, and Chapman's difficulties in filling out its schedule are well-documented -- and, as you noted, Elmhurst would've seemed like a great scheduling coup as recently as a year ago.

Nevertheless, the Chapman schedule is what it is. You can't get extra credit for good intentions.

True, but that means it is a guess as to how good they are, not that they should automatically be assumed to NOT be very good.  Who did Indiana State beat in 1979?  Who did George Mason beat a few years ago?

That's WHY the teams with great records against suspect schedules (or the wildly up-and-down teams like Randy Mac) are so difficult to place.  Chapman may not even be top 40, or they may be top ten - who can tell?

For schools like St. Mary's, St. Norbert, MIT, etc., I would never cast out a ballot just for putting them top 10 or leaving them off completely - who knows?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on February 24, 2010, 08:17:41 PM
FWIW, I didn't vote for 'em at all this week...   :)  ;)  :P
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 24, 2010, 08:44:33 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on February 24, 2010, 08:17:41 PM
FWIW, I didn't vote for 'em at all this week...   :)  ;)  :P

Yeah, but you didn't even vote for Williams or WashU! :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 25, 2010, 10:24:18 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 24, 2010, 07:17:40 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 24, 2010, 07:11:05 PM
Oh, I certainly don't mean for my comment to be misinterpreted as a dig at Chapman. The Panthers can't be faulted for being the recipients of the St. Peter Principle by me or by anybody else. You can only play the teams that are on your schedule, and Chapman's difficulties in filling out its schedule are well-documented -- and, as you noted, Elmhurst would've seemed like a great scheduling coup as recently as a year ago.

Nevertheless, the Chapman schedule is what it is. You can't get extra credit for good intentions.

True, but that means it is a guess as to how good they are, not that they should automatically be assumed to NOT be very good.  Who did Indiana State beat in 1979?  Who did George Mason beat a few years ago?



Well, GM in 2005-06 beat six teams in the Top 40 of the Pomeroy rankings. Of course, 4 of the 6 were in the NCAA tourney, but the CAA wasn't just chopped liver that year. Besides NC-Wilmington and GM, they had two top 100 teams and a Northeastern team that was in the top third of hoops teams.

In 1978-79 New Mexico State was in the MVC and 22-10 overall. That ISU team also beat NIT runner up Purdue (the NCAA tourney was just 40 deep and the NIT just 24 - so 2nd in the NIT was a good team).

The MVC was also well respected then, with deep tourney runs for several teams a recent memory.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 26, 2010, 12:12:49 AM
And DOWN...GO...THE TOMMIES!

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 28, 2010, 05:06:04 AM
Mr. Y
Are we doing a Posters' Poll this week? I'm just dying to put my Plattsburgh St. Cardinals in the top 25 :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 28, 2010, 11:54:05 AM
Quote from: magicman on February 28, 2010, 05:06:04 AM
Mr. Y
Are we doing a Posters' Poll this week? I'm just dying to put my Plattsburgh St. Cardinals in the top 25 :D

Yes, then we go on hiatus until after Salem.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 01, 2010, 03:02:56 AM
Mines in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on March 01, 2010, 05:26:41 AM
I got mine in as well.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 01, 2010, 09:56:06 AM

I'll be working on it after the announcement today.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 01, 2010, 11:42:03 AM

Mine's in.  Tiebreakers went to teams who won their tournament.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pbrooks3 on March 01, 2010, 12:03:16 PM
My poll for the week will be in shortly.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on March 01, 2010, 03:52:34 PM
In. This is the last one for me since the tourney 'settles it'. Thanks again!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2010, 02:04:41 AM
Eight ballots in, and a flat-out tie for first!  Numerous other spots also up for grabs.  Your ballot DOES make a difference, so get it in. ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on March 02, 2010, 07:03:39 AM
New top 25 poll is out but no peeking till your ballots are into Mr. Y.

http://d3hoops.com/top25/
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 02, 2010, 09:31:22 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2010, 02:04:41 AM
Eight ballots in, and a flat-out tie for first!  Numerous other spots also up for grabs.  Your ballot DOES make a difference, so get it in. ;)
Can you hold off until about 7:30 pm Central time?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2010, 09:34:14 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 02, 2010, 09:31:22 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2010, 02:04:41 AM
Eight ballots in, and a flat-out tie for first!  Numerous other spots also up for grabs.  Your ballot DOES make a difference, so get it in. ;)
Can you hold off until about 7:30 pm Central time?

Not a problem.  This one is usually late as people are distracted with tournament pools, etc.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 02, 2010, 11:35:03 AM
Quote from: magicman on March 02, 2010, 07:03:39 AM
New top 25 poll is out but no peeking till your ballots are into Mr. Y.

http://d3hoops.com/top25/

Can we get closer than a one point separation between first and second?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2010, 05:28:02 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 02, 2010, 11:35:03 AM
Quote from: magicman on March 02, 2010, 07:03:39 AM
New top 25 poll is out but no peeking till your ballots are into Mr. Y.

http://d3hoops.com/top25/

Can we get closer than a one point separation between first and second?

Could be - there was a tie for first after 8, though the 9th restored a one-point difference!

We've only added that one additional ballot in quite a while.  I'm holding off 'til later this evening (at least 8:30 EST) for a ballot from Ralph.  Any others on the way?  (I'll hold off even longer if I KNOW it will add more ballots.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on March 02, 2010, 05:42:59 PM
I can make 8:30 Eastern, I think.  
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 02, 2010, 07:29:31 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 02, 2010, 09:31:22 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2010, 02:04:41 AM
Eight ballots in, and a flat-out tie for first!  Numerous other spots also up for grabs.  Your ballot DOES make a difference, so get it in. ;)
Can you hold off until about 7:30 pm Central time?
Mine's in.  Thanks for holding.   :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on March 02, 2010, 09:41:41 PM
Sorry, I'm working on it... amazing how quickly hours just disappeared there...
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2010, 10:11:08 PM
We've now reached 12 (including all who have said they would vote)!  But since I am glued to the fantasy draft (and am tired), I'll wait 'til tomorrow and see if we can again tie (or beat!) our record. :D  The PP will be posted during the day tomorrow.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on March 03, 2010, 01:55:15 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2010, 10:11:08 PM
We've now reached 12 (including all who have said they would vote)!  But since I am glued to the fantasy draft (and am tired), I'll wait 'til tomorrow and see if we can again tie (or beat!) our record. :D  The PP will be posted during the day tomorrow.
Why you @%$%**%&*(*&^%$#!!!! I waited up for that. If you weren't throwing a 16 pound bowling ball around all day you'd have the energy to finish your assigned tasks. Just kidding. I didn't expect it tonight anyway what with the draft. I think when I do the odds for the Fantasy league you might be the favorite. Hate to slap you with that tag  but you're in the running. I'll post those tomorrow as well, on the Fantasy board.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 03, 2010, 10:51:59 AM
POSTERS' POLL, Feb 28, 2010:

1.  WashU               293 (1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2,2,3)
2.  Williams             289 (1,1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2,3,3,4)
3.  Guilford             277 (1,2,2,3,3,3,3,3,3,4,4,4)
4.  Whitworth         263 (3,3,3,4,4,4,4,4,4,5,5,6)
5.  UWSP                254 (2,4,4,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,6)
6.  St. Thomas        223 (5,6,6,7,7,7,8,8,8,9,9,9)
7.  UWW                 220 (6,6,6,6,7,7,8,8,9,9,9,11)
8.  EMU                   210 (6,7,7,7,7,7,8,9,10,10,11,15)
9.  Middlebury        196 (5,7,8,8,8,8,9,10,11,13,13,16)
10 Willy Pat            181 (6,7,9,10,10,11,12,12,12,13,14,15)
11 Va Wes              167 (6,9,9,10,11,11,11,11,15,15,16,21)
12 Carthage           157 (10,10,10,12,12,12,13,13,14,14,17,18)
13 Randy Mac          156 (9,10,11,11,12,12,13,13,13,15,16,21)
14 St. Mary's           130 (6,8,10,10,12,12,14,15,17,-,-,-)
15 Chapman           122 (8,11,13,14,14,15,15,15,19,20,22,24)
16 Wooster             115 (13,14,16,16,16,17,17,17,17,18,18,18)
17 St. Norbert         109 (14,14,14,15,16,16,16,17,17,20,22,22)
18 UT-Dallas            89 (11,15,16,17,17,18,19,19,20,21,24,-)
19 F & M                  86 (12,12,14,15,18,18,19,20,21,25,-,-)
20 MIT                     68 (14,17,18,18,19,19,19,21,22,25,-,-)
21 Cabrini               66 (13,16,16,20,20,20,21,22,22,24,-,-)
22 Central               56 (17,18,19,19,19,21,22,22,23,24,-,-)
t23 MerchantM        26 (20,21,22,23,23,23,25,25,-,-,-,-  0
t23 UMHB                26 (13,20,21,22)
25 John Carroll       25 (18,18,19,24)

26 Defiance            21 (20,22,23,23,24,24,25)
27 SJF                    17 (19,21,23,24)
28 Anderson           14 (21,22,23,24)
29 Maryville             12 20,23,24,25)
30 IWU                    9 (20,23)
t31 DeSales            5 (22,25)
t31 Hope                5 (23,24)
t31 Albright            5 (21)
34 Medaille            3 (23)
t35 Carleton          1
t35 CMS               1
t35 Plattsburgh      1
t35 Wilmington       1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: scout on March 03, 2010, 11:14:20 AM
Well, I guess it's public now that I had Gordon in my Top 25.

I was one of the individuals that did not have the opportunity to send in a poll for the week. So, by process of elimination, it could be reasoned out...

I am surprised, however, that Gordon's other vote also disappeared. Despite winning the three games of the CCC tournament and improving their record to 24-4.

Unless, of course, the other voter who had them in the Top 25 last week also did not submit a ballot.

This first round game between Middlebury and Gordon will be the ultimate litmus test for a team with an impressive record but a weak SOS.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hugenerd on March 03, 2010, 12:56:10 PM
Quote from: scout on March 03, 2010, 11:14:20 AM
Well, I guess it's public now that I had Gordon in my Top 25.

I was one of the individuals that did not have the opportunity to send in a poll for the week. So, by process of elimination, it could be reasoned out...

I am surprised, however, that Gordon's other vote also disappeared. Despite winning the three games of the CCC tournament and improving their record to 24-4.

Unless, of course, the other voter who had them in the Top 25 last week also did not submit a ballot.

This first round game between Middlebury and Gordon will be the ultimate litmus test for a team with an impressive record but a weak SOS.

I didnt have time to vote this week either.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 06, 2010, 07:23:45 PM

This serves as my formal apology to St. Mary's - they are good and I'm not sure I've voted for them even once this year.  A bad schedule hurts them, but about two minutes watching live made me a believer.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on March 08, 2010, 05:29:28 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 06, 2010, 07:23:45 PM

This serves as my formal apology to St. Mary's - they are good and I'm not sure I've voted for them even once this year.  A bad schedule hurts them, but about two minutes watching live made me a believer.

I had them in my poll every week but one. I'm just sorry I never had them ahead of Willie Paterson. I am glad that I never had Willie Paterson in the Top 10 though. My final poll was somewhat justified when Carthage, IWU, and DeSales advanced to the Sweet 16. I gave all three their highest placement with Carthage at #10, IWU at #20, and DeSales at #22. However, we all missed the boat on Rhode Island College, Brandeis and SUNYIT. They were on the list of teams I was tracking, just didn't have them in the top 25.  
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 08, 2010, 07:00:40 AM
Quote from: magicman on March 08, 2010, 05:29:28 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 06, 2010, 07:23:45 PM

This serves as my formal apology to St. Mary's - they are good and I'm not sure I've voted for them even once this year.  A bad schedule hurts them, but about two minutes watching live made me a believer.

I had them in my poll every week but one. I'm just sorry I never had them ahead of Willie Paterson. I am glad that I never had Willie Paterson in the Top 10 though. My final poll was somewhat justified when Carthage, IWU, and DeSales advanced to the Sweet 16. I gave all three their highest placement with Carthage at #10, IWU at #20, and DeSales at #22. However, we all missed the boat on Rhode Island College, Brandeis and SUNYIT. They were on the list of teams I was tracking, just didn't have them in the top 25.  
Titan Q has mentioned parity in several forums.

"Top 25" is not large enough to acknowledge all of the good teams this year.

If RIC is the best of the LEC, then it took this long for them to break out of the LEC pack,

I think that we have trouble identifying those teams that can "break out" from a solid conference.

SUNYIT may become one of the single-team-in-a-conference powers.

The three teams about which you had questions are the other 3 in the Williams bracket.  If I were to look at my team's best chance to make it to the Elite 8, I would have put myself in the opposite side of the Williams bracket to get there.  That summarizes Brandeis and RIC at this point.  The New York region may be that weak.  I still want to see what the Williams bracket does.  
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FanJacket on March 08, 2010, 01:50:49 PM
And the reason you left RMC off of this list is.....
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on March 19, 2010, 11:51:18 PM
Pretty good championship game........Stevens Point and Williams are 2 of the 3 teams that earned my #1 through the year.

2 of the higher profile D3 programs this decade.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 19, 2010, 11:59:30 PM
Quote from: sac on March 19, 2010, 11:51:18 PM
Pretty good championship game........Stevens Point and Williams are 2 of the 3 teams that earned my #1 through the year.

2 of the higher profile D3 programs this decade.

Agreed - though I personally had Guilford beating them each in reverse order! :(

My gut hunch is that UWSP wins fairly easily - but we can see what my gut hunch accomplished tonite. :P
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on March 20, 2010, 12:35:31 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 19, 2010, 11:59:30 PM
Quote from: sac on March 19, 2010, 11:51:18 PM
Pretty good championship game........Stevens Point and Williams are 2 of the 3 teams that earned my #1 through the year.

2 of the higher profile D3 programs this decade.

Agreed - though I personally had Guilford beating them each in reverse order! :(

My gut hunch is that UWSP wins fairly easily - but we can see what my gut hunch accomplished tonite. :P

I think it will be probably about as easy as the last time Point beat Williams...

It will be interesting to see how Williams shoots tomorrow on relatively short rest.  Of course, Point will have shorter rest... but...
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 20, 2010, 04:15:46 PM

My final poll is in.  Obviously the tournament was heavily factored into my decisions.  All in all, there weren't too many teams who performed differently than I expected.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 20, 2010, 06:14:54 PM
Mine's in.

Parity.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 20, 2010, 09:33:11 PM
I am in. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 21, 2010, 09:08:28 PM
Five ballots in, and only 31 teams mentioned.  The top five seems already pretty clear (though only 1 point separates 4th and 5th), but three teams within ONE point for #6!

Keep 'em comin', guys! :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on March 22, 2010, 12:20:10 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 21, 2010, 09:08:28 PM
Five ballots in, and only 31 teams mentioned.  The top five seems already pretty clear (though only 1 point separates 4th and 5th), but three teams within ONE point for #6!

Keep 'em comin', guys! :)
I'm working on mine right now and hope to have it to you within the next hour or so if I don't fall asleep first.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on March 22, 2010, 02:27:33 AM
My final poll is in. Thanks for doing this again this year Mr. Y. Plus K.  It's been fun
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 23, 2010, 05:35:16 PM
Working on our ballots seems to have a side benefit - success in pickems! 

In the d3hoops.com national bracket contest, of 326 entrants, frodotwo finished 8th, Ralph Turner 17th, smedindy 20th, and I finished 31st!  Since only the top 25 are listed, any other high scorers?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 23, 2010, 05:40:15 PM
It's about the usual deadline for ballots (though no real hurry - the next games are not for quite a while! :(), and only 7 ballots so far. 

I'm surprised not to have heard from Tom or PS - filling out a ballot with UWSP on top ought to be a pleasure!  (Perhaps they both celebrated the title a bit to vigorously? ;D  But frodotwo got his in.)

Any more ballots coming in, or should I just go ahead with 7?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 23, 2010, 05:48:50 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 23, 2010, 05:35:16 PM
Working on our ballots seems to have a side benefit - success in pickems! 

In the d3hoops.com national bracket contest, of 326 entrants, frodotwo finished 8th, Ralph Turner 17th, smedindy 20th, and I finished 31st!  Since only the top 25 are listed, any other high scorers?

Thanks!  That ought to be a reason for more fans to participate.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 23, 2010, 10:27:40 PM
I got a PM promising a ballot tomorrow.  Any more, or should I go ahead and 'publish' once that ballot is in?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 23, 2010, 11:05:17 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 23, 2010, 10:27:40 PM
I got a PM promising a ballot tomorrow.  Any more, or should I go ahead and 'publish' once that ballot is in?
Get as many voters as you can.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 25, 2010, 10:55:43 AM

Do we have an ETA?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 25, 2010, 10:59:38 AM
I was promised one more ballot - hopefully it will arrive while I'm out today.

Anyone else?

I'll post this evening, with or without more ballots (but hopefully with!).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 25, 2010, 08:26:10 PM
FINAL POSTERS' POLL, 2010:

1. UWSP        225 (unanimous)
2. Williams     216 (unanimous)
3. Guilford      207 (unanimous)
4. EMU           195 (4,4,4,4,4,4,5,5,5)
5. RMC           191 (4,4,4,5,5,5,5,5,6)
6. Whitworth  168 (5,6,6,6,6,7,9,11,12)
7. WashU        159 (6,7,7,7,8,8,8,12,12)
8. Wooster      148 (7,7,8,8,8,9,10,12,17)
9. IWU             146 (6,6,6,7,10,11,13,14,17)
10 Carthage    145 (8,8,9,10,10,10,10,11,13)
11 UWW          126 (7,10,11,11,13,14,14,14,14)
t12 F & M         121 (7,10,11,11,11,12,14,18,19)
t12 UT-Dallas   121 (8,9,9,9,10,11,15,21,21)
14 St. Mary's    108 (9,12,12,13,14,15,15,15,21)
15 St. Thomas   94 (9,13,14,16,16,16,17,19,20)
16 Va. Wes        81 (11,13,15,15,17,17,18,23,24)
17 Brandeis       76 (12,14,15,16,17,18,19,23,24)
18 Willy Pat        60 (13,17,18,18,19,19,20,24,-)
19 Midd               51 (13,15,19,19,21,22,22,-,-)
20 Anderson       50 (12,15,20,20,22,22,22,25,-)
21 DeSales         41 (16,16,19,22,22,24,24,25,25)
22 St. Norbs       40 (16,20,20,21,22,23,23,23,-)
23 JCU                37 (16,16,17,20,24,-,-,-,-)
24 Chapman       30 (13,17,21,24,25,-,-,-,-)
25 RIC                 22 (18,18,20,-,-,-,-,-,-)

26 SUNYIT           15 (20,22,23,24)
27 Wheaton        11 (21,23,23)
28 Merch Mar        9 (21,23,25)
t29 Defiance          8 (18)
t29 MIT                  8 (18)
31 SJF                    7 (19)
32 Central             6 (24,25,25,25,25)
33 Carleton           5 (21)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 25, 2010, 09:14:08 PM
Thanks for running the poll again this year!  +1!

I had 23 of the 25, and none of my votes were outliers, with the exception of Carleton at #21.  I thought that they played well at UWSP in the opening round.

I consider the MIAC as one of the strong "second" tier conferences, just below the 5 Power Conferences (in alphabetical order, CCIW, NESCAC, ODAC, UAA and WIAC).  Carleton earned the Pool A bid in the MIAC, and they played admirably.

Knocking out the members of the power conferences from the Posters' Poll...

FINAL POSTERS' POLL, 2010:

1. UWSP       225 (unanimous)
2. Williams     216 (unanimous)
3. Guilford      209 (unanimous)
4. EMU          195 (4,4,4,4,4,4,5,5,5)
5. RMC           191 (4,4,4,5,5,5,5,5,6)
6. Whitworth  168 (5,6,6,6,6,7,9,11,12)   NWC
7. WashU       159 (6,7,7,7,8,8,8,12,12)
8. Wooster      148 (7,7,8,8,8,9,10,12,17)  NCAC  or is this just a "Woo" and the 7 soon to be 6 Dwarves thing.
9. IWU            146 (6,6,6,7,10,11,13,14,17)  
10 Carthage    145 (8,8,9,10,10,10,10,11,13)
11 UWW         126 (7,10,11,11,13,14,14,14,14)
t12 F & M         121 (7,10,11,11,11,12,14,18,19)                   Centennial
t12 UT-Dallas   121 (8,9,9,9,10,11,15,21,21)                        ASC
14 St. Mary's    108 (9,12,12,13,14,15,15,15,21)                   Capital
15 St. Thomas   94 (9,13,14,16,16,16,17,19,20)                  MIAC
16 Va. Wes       81 (11,13,15,15,17,17,18,23,24)
17 Brandeis       76 (12,14,15,16,17,18,19,23,24)
18 Willy Pat        60 (13,17,18,18,19,19,20,24,-)                 NJAC
19 Midd               51 (13,15,19,19,21,22,22,-,-)
20 Anderson       50 (12,15,20,20,22,22,22,25,-)                    HCAC
21 DeSales         41 (16,16,19,22,22,24,24,25,25)                MAC Freedom
22 St. Norbs       40 (16,20,20,21,22,23,23,23,-)                  MWC
23 JCU                37 (16,16,17,20,24,-,-,-,-)                       OAC
24 Chapman       30 (13,17,21,24,25,-,-,-,-)     Is Chapman the "Southern Cal" representative this year?
25 RIC                 22 (18,18,20,-,-,-,-,-,-)                          LEC

I think that gives us a fair representation of the second tier conferences, too.  The only second tier conferences that I might consider that are not present are the SCAC, the IIAC and the MIAA.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 25, 2010, 09:59:09 PM
And note that you have to go all the way up to #22 to find a team named on more ballots than Central (IIAC) - they may have only tallied 6 points, but they were named on 56% of ballots!

To me that is more impressive than several teams above them (which is why I list tied teams by number of ballots, THEN alphabetically if still tied).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 25, 2010, 11:08:16 PM
#     Team     W-L     Pts.     Last Week
1    UW-Stevens Point (25)    29-4    625    5
2    Williams    30-2    600    2
3    Guilford    30-3    575    3
4    Eastern Mennonite    25-5    533    10
5    Randolph-Macon    26-7    512    16
6    Washington U.    24-3    466    1
7    Whitworth    26-3    447    4                             NWC
8    Wooster    25-6    405    17                               NCAC
9    UW-Whitewater    23-6    354    8
10    Carthage    24-6    334    14
11    Franklin and Marshall    26-5    315    18                 Centennial
12    Illinois Wesleyan    23-8    312    —
13    St. Mary's (Md.)    26-4    310    13                          Capital
14    Brandeis    22-7    282    —
15    Texas-Dallas    24-6    275    19                           ASC
16    St. Thomas    23-4    272    6                               MIAC
17    Virginia Wesleyan    23-6    223    11
18    William Paterson    25-3    206    7                               NJAC
19    Middlebury    25-4    205    9
20    St. Norbert    23-4    177    15                                       MWC
21    Chapman    24-3    175    12                            The Southern Cal entry
22    Anderson    23-6    99    24                                        HCAC
23    John Carroll    21-7    74    —                                OAC
24    DeSales    24-6    65    —                                        MAC Freedom
25    Central    23-5    55    22                                          IIAC



Second tier conferences in the official Top 25.

SCAC and MIAA members did not receive a vote this year.



Others receiving votes:

Rhode Island College 41  LEC,
MIT 33  NEWMAC,
Wheaton (Ill.) 33,
Carleton 32  MIAC,
Merchant Marine 30  Landmark,
St. John Fisher 18  Empire 8,
Defiance 15  HCAC,
Cabrini 14  CSAC,
SUNYIT 8  NEAC,
Clark 2  NEWMAC,
Albertus Magnus 1  GNAC,
Colby 1,
UW-La Crosse 1.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 26, 2010, 06:59:23 PM

So, I'm moving to South Jersey this summer.  I might actually get to see a few games in person next year.  I'll be a half hour from Rowan and 20ish minutes from Widener.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: altor on March 29, 2010, 09:45:05 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 25, 2010, 08:26:10 PM
FINAL POSTERS' POLL, 2010:

1. UWSP        225 (unanimous)
2. Williams     216 (unanimous)
3. Guilford      209 (unanimous)

Must be some new-fangled math.  Where I'm from, 23 * 9 = 207.   :P
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 29, 2010, 10:22:00 AM
Quote from: altor on March 29, 2010, 09:45:05 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 25, 2010, 08:26:10 PM
FINAL POSTERS' POLL, 2010:

1. UWSP        225 (unanimous)
2. Williams     216 (unanimous)
3. Guilford      209 (unanimous)

Must be some new-fangled math.  Where I'm from, 23 * 9 = 207.   :P

The sad thing is how many of us did not recognize that and for how long it stayed unnoticed.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 29, 2010, 10:42:40 AM
Quote from: altor on March 29, 2010, 09:45:05 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 25, 2010, 08:26:10 PM
FINAL POSTERS' POLL, 2010:

1. UWSP        225 (unanimous)
2. Williams     216 (unanimous)
3. Guilford      209 (unanimous)

Must be some new-fangled math.  Where I'm from, 23 * 9 = 207.   :P

Aaargh!  I have it written down as 207, but can't type! :-[

It's now been corrected.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 29, 2010, 11:17:50 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 29, 2010, 10:42:40 AM
Quote from: altor on March 29, 2010, 09:45:05 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 25, 2010, 08:26:10 PM
FINAL POSTERS' POLL, 2010:

1. UWSP        225 (unanimous)
2. Williams     216 (unanimous)
3. Guilford      209 (unanimous)

Must be some new-fangled math.  Where I'm from, 23 * 9 = 207.   :P

Aaargh!  I have it written down as 207, but can't type! :-[

It's now been corrected.
:D :D :D

Or is the handwriting that illegible?   :D  :D  :D    ;D    ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: altor on March 29, 2010, 04:18:44 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 29, 2010, 10:22:00 AM
The sad thing is how many of us did not recognize that and for how long it stayed unnoticed.

I only noticed it because of the strange way my mind does math like that.  I was wondering how many people participated in the poll.  Rather than count the numbers in the lines below, I figured I'd just subtract the "unanimous" votes.  I got really confused when the difference between #1 and #2 was different than #2 and #3.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 29, 2010, 04:53:38 PM
Quote from: altor on March 29, 2010, 04:18:44 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 29, 2010, 10:22:00 AM
The sad thing is how many of us did not recognize that and for how long it stayed unnoticed.

I only noticed it because of the strange way my mind does math like that.  I was wondering how many people participated in the poll.  Rather than count the numbers in the lines below, I figured I'd just subtract the "unanimous" votes.  I got really confused when the difference between #1 and #2 was different than #2 and #3.
The frightening thing about this is that I knew what you were doing with the math thing!  Unanimous for 4th place would have been 198 votes!

:o
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: kiltedbryan on March 30, 2010, 02:10:20 AM
I find it somewhat interesting that at least one poster ranked Wooster behind UW-WW, a team Wooster beat in the second round.  Also, two posters ranked Illinois Wesleyan behind Carthage, who Ill. Wes beat in the Sweet Sixteen (they split 2-2 on the year).

Any other direct match-ups from the tourney with interesting poll results?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on March 30, 2010, 11:08:20 PM
Quote from: kiltedbryan on March 30, 2010, 02:10:20 AM
I find it somewhat interesting that at least one poster ranked Wooster behind UW-WW, a team Wooster beat in the second round.  Also, two posters ranked Illinois Wesleyan behind Carthage, who Ill. Wes beat in the Sweet Sixteen (they split 2-2 on the year).

Any other direct match-ups from the tourney with interesting poll results?

Uh... Whitewater beat Point twice (UWW was 2-1 vs. UWSP).  Not sure that this one really qualifies though!

For that matter, La Crosse went 1-1 against Point too, including the game that cost UWSP the regular season conference championship.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 31, 2010, 12:15:02 AM
Unless there is an undefeated champion, there is almost guaranteed SOME chain by which ANY team who won even a single game is shown to be better than the champ! ;)

Head-to-head is obviously important, but it is not the only criterion.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 31, 2010, 01:29:20 PM
Quote from: kiltedbryan on March 30, 2010, 02:10:20 AMAlso, two posters ranked Illinois Wesleyan behind Carthage, who Ill. Wes beat in the Sweet Sixteen (they split 2-2 on the year).

Carthage finished two games ahead of Illinois Wesleyan in the CCIW race (12-2 to 10-4) and, of the four games that the two teams played against each other, the lone head-to-head blowout was in favor of Carthage (a 25-point win for the Red Men in Kenosha in February). Illinois Wesleyan obviously had a better run in March, but there's nothing implausible about ranking the Red Men ahead of the Titans if you're looking at the bigger picture of the entire season.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nwhoops1903 on December 09, 2010, 02:23:21 PM
I look forward to participating this year.  If we throw it out early we might just see a big turnout.  I see RT is in, that's 2.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 09, 2010, 03:25:21 PM
1903, thanks for bringing the board up to the top of the page.  I would have done it sometime in the next few days to remind potential voters to start paying attention to top teams around the whole country.

Our first poll of the season will probably be for games thru Jan 9, with ballots due by 6pm EST on Tues, the 11th.  If for any reason that changes, I'll post it here.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on December 09, 2010, 04:07:32 PM
In like the proverbial Flynn.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 09, 2010, 06:50:49 PM

I'll be there.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on December 09, 2010, 09:19:43 PM
I'll be in when I'm in, like usual!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: frodotwo on December 09, 2010, 10:52:27 PM
I can find my two cents worth on a weekly basis ???
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 04, 2011, 07:31:56 PM
The 2011 Posters' Poll will commence this week - thru games of Jan 9!

We've got about 6-7 posters committed so far - more are welcome.  (I'll be sending out PMs to all past voters who have not yet piped up.)  I'd especially welcome voters from the South and from the left coast, but we can use anyone who is a fan of the national d3 scene.

The procedure is simple - send me a ballot (1-25 teams) by PM by 7PM (EST) on Tuesdays.  I prefer more voters over timeliness, so will generally hod the 'publication' if a voter requests, but it sure would be nice to EVER get one out by early Tuesday evening! ;)

As always, I reserve the right to reject ballots that are obvious 'homerism' (though I have never had to assert that right).  And, as always, please check your PMs as the deadline approaches - I sometimes DO ask about seemingly errant omissions (which have usually turned out to be errant omissions!). ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 04, 2011, 09:52:23 PM
Well, I have never cast a ballot for Wabash in this poster's poll, but you know this year it won't be homerism!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 04, 2011, 10:28:35 PM
Quote from: smedindy on January 04, 2011, 09:52:23 PM
Well, I have never cast a ballot for Wabash in this poster's poll, but you know this year it won't be homerism!

This year, fully understood!

If they can take down Wooster Saturday (and I picked the LGs in the national pickems) even a #1 vote would not be rejected for homerism! ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 08, 2011, 05:09:37 PM
Reminder to all potential voters - this year's edition of the PP begins with games thru tomorrow.  Please submit ballots (by PM to me) by 7PM (EST) on Tuesday.

With undefeated Amherst edging previously undefeated Williams in OT, and undefeated Wooster barely holding off a furious late game charge by previously undefeated Wabash, it is a great time to start voting! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 09, 2011, 05:48:12 PM

Usually I don't make projections of how teams rank before going through all of them and trying to be objective.  This year I've been on the Wooster bandwagon since day one.  Hopefully I can evaluate them fairly.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 09, 2011, 06:34:51 PM
Mine is in.  If Lyndon State upsets Middlebury, then I request the chance to amend the poll.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 09, 2011, 07:28:11 PM

Is Birmingham-Southern eligible for the poll yet?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 09, 2011, 07:52:59 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 09, 2011, 07:28:11 PM

Is Birmingham-Southern eligible for the poll yet?

I don't think they are eligible for post-season play until next year, but I have no rule against voting for them in the poll.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pbrooks3 on January 09, 2011, 08:21:25 PM
I'll jump in the poll again this year. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 10, 2011, 10:56:03 AM
Mine is in.  Thanks for running this thang!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 10, 2011, 12:10:04 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 09, 2011, 07:52:59 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 09, 2011, 07:28:11 PM

Is Birmingham-Southern eligible for the poll yet?

I don't think they are eligible for post-season play until next year, but I have no rule
against voting for them in the poll.

They're not Top 25 material yet, but I was just curious with the gaudy record and all. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 10, 2011, 12:20:34 PM
I'm preparing my ballot as we speak.  I spent a while last night going through every conference and team to make a (very long) short list.

My top four are basically a toss up, but I won't wimp out and give a fourth of a vote to each.  I'll make a decision.

As for Williams.  I'd like to keep them higher due to the injury, however, since I can't be bothered researching injuries across the country, I've decided to make my ballot about the current make-up of the team.  This will also explain Williams' jump when Whittington returns to play and presumably back to form.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 10, 2011, 02:11:55 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 10, 2011, 12:10:04 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 09, 2011, 07:52:59 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 09, 2011, 07:28:11 PM

Is Birmingham-Southern eligible for the poll yet?

I don't think they are eligible for post-season play until next year, but I have no rule
against voting for them in the poll.

They're not Top 25 material yet, but I was just curious with the gaudy record and all.  
Ypsi's right.

Home 1 point win over Ozarks to open the season -- Fair
Rust -- Okay
LaGrange -- Down this season
UNO -- Good win (Maybe equivalent of a D-III Top 80-- Top quintile)
DePauw -- Nice win
at Centre -- 45-62   :)  Expected
Huntingdon, Sewanee, Oglethorpe and Rhodes -- expected.

Probably finishes at 21-4.  Fortunately they catch Colorado College, Austin College, Southwestern and Trinity, the strength of the SCAC-West, at home!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 10, 2011, 04:54:57 PM

My poll is in.  I like the top 12 - after that, I feel like there should be 5-7 blank spaces before the rest come in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 10, 2011, 04:58:30 PM
I feel good 1-17. After that...feh...
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 10, 2011, 06:25:18 PM

I felt self-conscious about including Ithaca - I ended up dropping them two spots.  I need to stick to my guns.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 10, 2011, 07:53:40 PM
5 ballots in and tallied (and so far the only one who obviously simply forgot a team was me! :P) - hopefully we can double (at least!) that number in the next 24 hours.

[I never got around to PMing past voters who had not already chimed in about their participation, but will certainly do so this week if we don't reach at least 11 or 12 ballots.]

Your ballot DOES matter - currently first and third are separated by 3 points!  Despite the anguished cries about problems at the bottom of the ballot (which I can VERY much identify with!), so far 19 teams have been named on all five ballots (and three more on four) - more consensus than I really expected at this stage of the season.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 10, 2011, 08:25:34 PM
I hope to get mine in tonight.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pbrooks3 on January 11, 2011, 10:57:39 AM
Just sent in my entrya few minutes ago.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 11, 2011, 05:46:57 PM
We're up to 9 ballots with barely over an hour 'til the desired deadline.  Any more in the pipeline?  (As always, I prefer more ballots to arbitrary deadlines, so will hold off 'publishing' if anyone needs more time.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 11, 2011, 07:33:15 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 11, 2011, 05:46:57 PM
We're up to 9 ballots with barely over an hour 'til the desired deadline.  Any more in the pipeline?  (As always, I prefer more ballots to arbitrary deadlines, so will hold off 'publishing' if anyone needs more time.)

Mine will be delivered to you in a matter of minutes. sorry for the delay.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 11, 2011, 08:04:53 PM
I'm gonna make one final appeal - otherwise I'll post 10-ish.  We're up to ten; an attempt to shame PS into being #11 is on the Top 25 board. :D 

While #1 is now pretty well set, #2, 3, and 4 are separated by ONE point!!  YOUR ballot WILL make a difference if you send it soon (or request a further extension)!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 11, 2011, 08:21:29 PM
Eh, gimme 10 mins, I'll throw a wrench in things!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 11, 2011, 08:33:31 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on January 11, 2011, 08:21:29 PM
Eh, gimme 10 mins, I'll throw a wrench in things!

Sorry, it took 12. (in)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 11, 2011, 10:27:21 PM
Posters' Poll, thru games of 1-9:

1.  Wooster       267 (1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,3,3,3)
t2  St. Thomas   254 (1,1,2,2,3,3,3,4,4,4,5)
t2  Whitworth    254 (1,1,2,2,3,3,3,3,4,4,6)
4.  Va. Wesleyan 248 (1,2,2,2,2,2,3,4,5,7,8)
5.  Middlebury    220 (4,4,4,5,5,5,6,6,6,6,15)
6.  Augustana    211 (4,5,5,5,6,6,7,8,9,9,11)
7.  Williams         207 (6,6,6,7,7,7,7,7,7,9,10 )
8.  UWSP            192 (5,5,8,8,8,9,9,9,9,10,14)
9.  Amherst         186 (5,6,7,7,8,10,10,10,13,14)
10 Wabash         182 (7,8,8,8,9,9,10,11,11,11,12)
11 UWRF             162 (4,9,10,11,11,12,12,12,12,13.18)
12 Randy Mac      158 (8,9,10,10,10,11,11,13,13,16,17)
13 Brandeis         137 (8,11,12,12,13,13,14,15,15,17,19)
14 EMU                127 (12,12,13,13,13,13,14,14,14,15,-)
15 W. Conn.        102 (11,11,14,15,16,16,17,19,19,22.24)
16 St. Norbs          90 (12,14,15,15,15,16,18,19,20,-,-)
17 St. Mary's         77 (16,16,17,17,17,18,18,19,21,24,-)
18 F & M                76 (14,15,16,16,18,18,19,21,21,-,-)
19 Hanover           57 (15,16,17,17,20,21,21,24,-,-,-                         0
20 Ferrum             50 (18,19,19,19,20,20,21,23,25,-,-)
21 Marietta           42 (13,18,20,20,21,23,25,-,-,-,-)
22 IWU                  40 (14,17,20,20,22,23,-,-,-,-,-)
23 Chapman          37 (14,16,21,22,23,24,25,-,-,-,-)
24 NYU                   36 (12,20,22,22,22,23,25,-,-,-,-)
25 WPI                   27 (17,21,21,22,23,25,-,-,-,-,-)

26 Ithaca                26 (15,17,20)
27 Wheaton           24 (16,18,24,24,24)
28 W & L                14 (18,21,25)
29 Ramapo             13 (22,23,23,25,25,25)
30 Lewis + Clark      9 (22,23,24)
31 Becker                 8 (18)
t32 Kean                  7 (19)
t32 Plattsburgh        7 (19)
34 RIC                      6 (20)
t35 Anderson           4 (22)
t35 MIT                    4 (22)
t37 UMHB                 3 (24,25)
t37 Elizabethtown    3 (23)
t37 John Carroll        3 (23)
40 Concordia WI      2 (24)
t41 Ill. Col.               1
t41 Manhattanville   1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 11, 2011, 10:33:24 PM
Did I grab the Mr. Outlier championship away from Hoops Fan?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 11, 2011, 10:34:45 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 11, 2011, 10:33:24 PM
Did I grab the Mr. Outlier championship away from Hoops Fan?

I was an outlier compared to last week's poll.  I can't help it if everyone, independently, sees things my way.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 11, 2011, 10:37:51 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 11, 2011, 10:33:24 PM
Did I grab the Mr. Outlier championship away from Hoops Fan?

Big time! :D

You alone made me type in five extra schools (HF had zero 'orphans'! :(
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 12, 2011, 12:29:42 AM
I do think this does illustrate how hard it is to separate the teams on the lower 1/3 of our ballots. The only thing I am surprised at is that someone left Eastern Mennonite off their ballot.

I only had one outlier, and it wasn't my #25.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 12, 2011, 02:12:14 AM
The ink had barely dried on my Poll page when they started dropping like flies. 4 Top 25 teams out of the 6 who played suffered losses Tuesday evening. Ithaca losing to Utica and Franklin and Marshall losing to McDaniel were probably the worst losses.

Franklin and Marshall was leading 49-41 with 7:26 to go in the game. They scored 1 field goal and 2 foul shots for the remainder of the game and were outscored by McDaniel 20-4 to lose to a 5-7 team 61-53.     

Over on the Empire 8 board AUPepBand probably said it best about Ithaca. This is Pep's post:

"Okay, is this for real?

Ithaca 104, Alfred 51
Alfred 65, Utica 60
Utica 85, Ithaca 81

What's wrong with this picture?"

Western Connecticut losing to Keene State doesn't surprise me as Keene State has a pretty good team and will challenge for the league title.

Ripon has played a tough schedule and beating a visiting St Norbert's team isn't that big a deal.

After only 1 day it looks like there will be wholesale changes again next week.

Thanks to whoever it was that gave my Plattsburgh Cardinals some love. I just couldn't give them a mention after their stumbles of the past week. They will turn things around though, starting with this weekend. With 4 conference championships in the past 5 years, they are still the team to beat in the SUNYAC.

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2011, 11:54:06 AM
WCSU should have beaten Keene State at home to remain Top 25.  IMHO, that is just taking care of business.  

Now who is the best candidate from the LEC to have a team in the Top 25 is another matter.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 12, 2011, 12:21:47 PM
Quote from: smedindy on January 12, 2011, 12:29:42 AM
I do think this does illustrate how hard it is to separate the teams on the lower 1/3 of our ballots. The only thing I am surprised at is that someone left Eastern Mennonite off their ballot.

It wasn't me, but I can understand in.  In my initial run through of all the teams I had them well down, maybe late 30's.  Ultimately I gave them credit for a tough schedule, but if any of my rankings fall into the criticism of bumping a team up due to name recognition or conference affiliation, this was it.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 12, 2011, 12:27:50 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 12, 2011, 12:21:47 PM
Quote from: smedindy on January 12, 2011, 12:29:42 AM
I do think this does illustrate how hard it is to separate the teams on the lower 1/3 of our ballots. The only thing I am surprised at is that someone left Eastern Mennonite off their ballot.

It wasn't me, but I can understand in.  In my initial run through of all the teams I had them well down, maybe late 30's.  Ultimately I gave them credit for a tough schedule, but if any of my rankings fall into the criticism of bumping a team up due to name recognition or conference affiliation, this was it.

It was me. I can definitely understand having them in, but they were bunched in with the bottom folks on my list. I'm giving heavier emphasis on D3 games ('cuz they're easier to track), and their just not rating as a Top 15 for me.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2011, 12:47:49 PM
My orphan was MIT.

My outliers were:

Wabash #7.  I did not think that the loss to #1 Wooster should hurt them.
WCSU.  Mine was the #24, and their loss to Keene makes me want them to separate themselves from the rest of the LEC pack.
IWU #14.  Maybe it is CCIW bias, but the losses by the teams in the Official Jan 2nd Top 25 Pool had me scrambling to find a team even worth consideration in the Top15.

I had 22 of the 25 pegged.



*  Arbitrary definitions (Sniglets are listed elsewhere.)

Orphan -- one's vote is the only vote cast for a team.
Outlier -- a unique ballot cast for a team as the highest or the lowest. (Ties or being left off does not count as an outlier).  My vote for Williams at #6 was matched by 2 other voters.  Therefore it is not a (unique) outlier.   My #25 for Ramapo does not count as an outliers because they were not named on 5 ballots.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2011, 01:20:00 PM
Good definitions, Ralph, though I would slightly modify the definition of 'outlier' to include a bit of separation from other voters.  I personally wouldn't consider your Wabash vote an outlier, since 3 voters (including me) had them only one slot lower.  Likewise, I don't consider my sole first place vote for Va Wes an outlier since FIVE voters had them #2.

On the other hand, UWRF and Brandeis each had distinct outliers at both ends, while Middlebury and EMU certainly had extreme outliers at the low end.

(And I hasten to add that outliers should clearly not be confused with 'wrong' votes - just because someone is currently a lonely voice crying in the wilderness doesn't guarantee they won't eventually be shown to be 'correct'! ;))
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 12, 2011, 01:21:21 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2011, 01:20:00 PM
Good definitions, Ralph, though I would slightly modify the definition of 'outlier' to include a bit of separation from other voters.  I personally wouldn't consider your Wabash vote an outlier, since 3 voters (including me) had them only one slot lower.  Likewise, I don't consider my sole first place vote for Va Wes an outlier since FIVE voters had them #2.

On the other hand, UWRF and Brandeis each had distinct outliers at both ends, while Middlebury and EMU certainly had extreme outliers at the low end.

(And I hasten to add that outliers should clearly not be confused with 'wrong' votes - just because someone is currently a lonely voice crying in the wilderness doesn't guarantee they won't eventually be shown to be 'correct'! ;))

And likewise, just because you vote with everyone else doesn't mean it won't eventually be shown to be 'incorrect'.  :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2011, 01:25:43 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 12, 2011, 01:21:21 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2011, 01:20:00 PM
Good definitions, Ralph, though I would slightly modify the definition of 'outlier' to include a bit of separation from other voters.  I personally wouldn't consider your Wabash vote an outlier, since 3 voters (including me) had them only one slot lower.  Likewise, I don't consider my sole first place vote for Va Wes an outlier since FIVE voters had them #2.

On the other hand, UWRF and Brandeis each had distinct outliers at both ends, while Middlebury and EMU certainly had extreme outliers at the low end.

(And I hasten to add that outliers should clearly not be confused with 'wrong' votes - just because someone is currently a lonely voice crying in the wilderness doesn't guarantee they won't eventually be shown to be 'correct'! ;))

And likewise, just because you vote with everyone else doesn't mean it won't eventually be shown to be 'incorrect'.  :)

I chose not to belabor the obvious flip side of my statement - I knew I could count on a Calvin fan to do it instead! ;) ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: kiltedbryan on January 12, 2011, 02:24:05 PM
Had I voted, I think I would've had at least one major "outlier," and that's Anderson.  I think they're actually getting punished too much by the poll for the absolute schellacking that Wooster gave them in December.  No doubt, at all, that Wooster is the better team, but much of the extreme margin of victory that night was, in my mind--and I say this as a Wooster fan who listened to that game--something of a fluke outcome, the result of Wooster playing its best half of basketball all season at the same time that Anderson played its worst half.

Yes, Anderson has four losses...but one is to DI Eastern Illinois, one was a home loss to undefeated #1 Wooster, one was a road loss at undefeated #8 Augustana, and one was a road loss to quality conference opponent Definance.  There's not a "bad" loss in that group, except for the margin against Wooster.  And Massey has them at #20.  I think I probably would've found a spot for them somewhere between #15-20.

One team that wouldn't have been anywhere near my ballot is F & M.  Even before the loss to McDaniel F & M was only in the low 70s in Massey's list (now at #106).  F&M has done nothing so far this year except lose to the two good teams they played in St. Mary's MD & Ithaca, and beat a bunch of .500ish (or much worse) teams.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 12, 2011, 03:26:09 PM

Just for kicks, here's my 26-35:


Rutgers-Newark
Kean
Union
NYU
St. Norbert
Scranton
Mary Washington
Rochester
Anderson
Lewis & Clark
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 12, 2011, 04:26:36 PM
Quote from: kiltedbryan on January 12, 2011, 02:24:05 PM
Had I voted, I think I would've had at least one major "outlier," and that's Anderson.  I think they're actually getting punished too much by the poll for the absolute schellacking that Wooster gave them in December.  No doubt, at all, that Wooster is the better team, but much of the extreme margin of victory that night was, in my mind--and I say this as a Wooster fan who listened to that game--something of a fluke outcome, the result of Wooster playing its best half of basketball all season at the same time that Anderson played its worst half.

I didn't "punish" Anderson because of its margin of loss to Wooster. I "punished" Anderson because three D3 losses is a lot at this point, good opponents or not, and the Ravens haven't really compensated by beating any good teams besides Transylvania and Dickie Stockton.

BTW, put in a ballot next week, Bryan. Chuck is always looking for more contributors to the Posters' Poll.

Quote from: kiltedbryan on January 12, 2011, 02:24:05 PMOne team that wouldn't have been anywhere near my ballot is F & M.  Even before the loss to McDaniel F & M was only in the low 70s in Massey's list (now at #106).  F&M has done nothing so far this year except lose to the two good teams they played in St. Mary's MD & Ithaca, and beat a bunch of .500ish (or much worse) teams.

I always give F&M a bit of the benefit of the doubt because of the Glenn Robinson factor.

Quote from: smedindy on January 12, 2011, 12:29:42 AM
I do think this does illustrate how hard it is to separate the teams on the lower 1/3 of our ballots. The only thing I am surprised at is that someone left Eastern Mennonite off their ballot.

I only had one outlier, and it wasn't my #25.

Just one outlier for me, and it was only an Abilene outlier rather than a Ypsilanti outlier; I was the one who had Hanover at #15. I think the HCAC's pretty strong this year. No orphans for me, either. I remain Mr. Golden Mean, I guess, although I freely acknowledge that the Dean of KnightSlappy U. speaks truth in saying that voting with everyone else is no guarantee of correctitude.

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 11, 2011, 10:37:51 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 11, 2011, 10:33:24 PM
Did I grab the Mr. Outlier championship away from Hoops Fan?

Big time! :D

You alone made me type in five extra schools (HF had zero 'orphans'! :(

And here I was all set to assume that HF had once again donned the Captain Outlier cape by slotting Becker (Becker?!) at #18. I was doubly sure that it was him, since HF has a tendency to speak up for Northeast Region teams in various Multi-Regional Topics rooms. But it turns out that you're the Ted Danson fan, eh?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2011, 04:32:08 PM
Actually, Becker was neither of the two you guessed!  (But as you know, my policy is to leave vote-identification up to the voters.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 12, 2011, 06:40:45 PM
Quote from: kiltedbryan on January 12, 2011, 02:24:05 PM
Had I voted, I think I would've had at least one major "outlier," and that's Anderson.  I think they're actually getting punished too much by the poll for the absolute schellacking that Wooster gave them in December.  No doubt, at all, that Wooster is the better team, but much of the extreme margin of victory that night was, in my mind--and I say this as a Wooster fan who listened to that game--something of a fluke outcome, the result of Wooster playing its best half of basketball all season at the same time that Anderson played its worst half.

Yes, Anderson has four losses...but one is to DI Eastern Illinois, one was a home loss to undefeated #1 Wooster, one was a road loss at undefeated #8 Augustana, and one was a road loss to quality conference opponent Definance.  There's not a "bad" loss in that group, except for the margin against Wooster.  And Massey has them at #20.  I think I probably would've found a spot for them somewhere between #15-20.

One team that wouldn't have been anywhere near my ballot is F & M.  Even before the loss to McDaniel F & M was only in the low 70s in Massey's list (now at #106).  F&M has done nothing so far this year except lose to the two good teams they played in St. Mary's MD & Ithaca, and beat a bunch of .500ish (or much worse) teams.

Well, vote then!  :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2011, 06:45:42 PM
Yeah, Bryan, join us.

Thanks for the comment on Anderson.  I just did not have an HCAC team on the radar yet.

You hate to slot teams, but we have enough history with performance in the playoffs that you almost have to keep these teams/conferences in mind.  We have 40 Pool A conferences.

AMCC - 0
ASC - 1
Capital AC -  1
Centennial  -1
CUNYAC - 0
CCIW - 3
CSAC - 0
E8 - 1
GNAC - 0
GSAC - 0
HCAC - 1
Independent - 0 (and then Chapman puts together a good year.)
IIAC - 1
Landmark - 0-1
LEC - 1
LL -- 0
MASCAC - 0-1
MIAA - 1
MAC-C 0-1
MAC-F 0-1
MWC - 1
MIAC - 1
NESCAC - 2-3
NEWMAC - 1
NEAC - 0
NATHC - 0
NECC - 0
NJAC - 1
NWC - 1
OAC -1
ODAC 2-3
Pres AC - 0
Skyline - 0
SCAC - 0-1
SCIAC - 0-1
SLIAC - 0
SUNYAC - 0-1
UAA 2-3
UMAC 0
USA South - 0-1
WIAC 3

I identifed anywhere from 26-37 teams from the conferences that ought to be on the radar, and I don't think that there is much difference between #25 and #50 in the country either!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: kiltedbryan on January 12, 2011, 07:24:32 PM
Quote from: smedindy on January 12, 2011, 06:40:45 PM
Well, vote then!  :D

I might.  My stumbling block (outside of having time) is feeling like I don't know much about teams outside of the Great Lakes and Midwest.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2011, 07:43:20 PM
Quote from: kiltedbryan on January 12, 2011, 07:24:32 PM
Quote from: smedindy on January 12, 2011, 06:40:45 PM
Well, vote then!  :D

I might.  My stumbling block (outside of having time) is feeling like I don't know much about teams outside of the Great Lakes and Midwest.

Except by reputation (and occasional video feeds, and boxscores/recaps/other posters' comments) NO one in d3 does. :P  As long as you're willing to do a BIT of research, you sound as qualified as any of the rest of us reprobates! ;D

The heartland is already pretty well represented (but do NOT take that as an excuse not to participate! :D); where we are really weak is the (geographical) southeast (only Ralph from the south region, and he is in Texas) and the left coast (we've got nwhoops1903, but a SCIAC rep would be highly welcome).

There are several voters whose specific region I've forgotten, but I'm reasonably confident that in the geographically more homogenous regions anyone voting here would be well aware of adjoining regions.

If anyone knows any potential voters from underrepresented regions, lean on 'em!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: kiltedbryan on January 12, 2011, 09:58:56 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 12, 2011, 04:26:36 PM
Quote from: kiltedbryan on January 12, 2011, 02:24:05 PM
Had I voted, I think I would've had at least one major "outlier," and that's Anderson.  I think they're actually getting punished too much by the poll for the absolute schellacking that Wooster gave them in December.  No doubt, at all, that Wooster is the better team, but much of the extreme margin of victory that night was, in my mind--and I say this as a Wooster fan who listened to that game--something of a fluke outcome, the result of Wooster playing its best half of basketball all season at the same time that Anderson played its worst half.

I didn't "punish" Anderson because of its margin of loss to Wooster. I "punished" Anderson because three D3 losses is a lot at this point, good opponents or not, and the Ravens haven't really compensated by beating any good teams besides Transylvania and Dickie Stockton.

All valid counter-points.  Luckily we'll have more info before the next PP, as Anderson goes to Hanover this Saturday.

Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 12, 2011, 04:26:36 PM
Quote from: kiltedbryan on January 12, 2011, 02:24:05 PMOne team that wouldn't have been anywhere near my ballot is F & M.  Even before the loss to McDaniel F & M was only in the low 70s in Massey's list (now at #106).  F&M has done nothing so far this year except lose to the two good teams they played in St. Mary's MD & Ithaca, and beat a bunch of .500ish (or much worse) teams.

I always give F&M a bit of the benefit of the doubt because of the Glenn Robinson factor.

I guess you could say I was being a bit, ah, undiplomatic.   :)  But no one else in the CC appears to be any good, so even if F&M basically runs the table I'm not sure that I'll give them that much credit.  And while I don't want to use Massey as any sort of be-all, end-all for rankings, when 13 games into the season Massey has you slotted 100+?  That suggests there are some other teams above them worth looking at.

Heck, maybe even a team like Massey #75 Becker...   ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2011, 10:39:32 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2011, 12:47:49 PM

*  Arbitrary definitions (Sniglets are listed elsewhere.)

Orphan -- one's vote is the only vote cast for a team.
Outlier -- a unique ballot cast for a team as the highest or the lowest. (Ties or being left off does not count as an outlier).  My vote for Williams at #6 was matched by 2 other voters.  Therefore it is not a (unique) outlier.   My #25 for Ramapo does not count as an outliers because they were not named on 5 ballots.
How about defining "outlier" as being 2 votes above or below the next highest/lowest?  For example, a #3 with the next highest vote at #6.  The #3 is an outlier.  A #25 vote with the next highest vote at #22 is an outlier.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 13, 2011, 12:21:03 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2011, 06:45:42 PM
Yeah, Bryan, join us.

Thanks for the comment on Anderson.  I just did not have an HCAC team on the radar yet.

You hate to slot teams, but we have enough history with performance in the playoffs that you almost have to keep these teams/conferences in mind.  We have 40 Pool A conferences.

AMCC - 0
ASC - 1
Capital AC -  1
Centennial  -1
CUNYAC - 0
CCIW - 3
CSAC - 0
E8 - 1
GNAC - 0
GSAC - 0
HCAC - 1
Independent - 0 (and then Chapman puts together a good year.)
IIAC - 1
Landmark - 0-1
LEC - 1
LL -- 0
MASCAC - 0-1
MIAA - 1
MAC-C 0-1
MAC-F 0-1
MWC - 1
MIAC - 1
NESCAC - 2-3
NEWMAC - 1
NEAC - 0
NATHC - 0
NECC - 0
NJAC - 1
NWC - 1
OAC -1
ODAC 2-3
Pres AC - 0
Skyline - 0
SCAC - 0-1
SCIAC - 0-1
SLIAC - 0
SUNYAC - 0-1
UAA 2-3
UMAC 0
USA South - 0-1
WIAC 3

I identifed anywhere from 26-37 teams from the conferences that ought to be on the radar, and I don't think that there is much difference between #25 and #50 in the country either!

Did you forget the NCAC?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 13, 2011, 12:25:16 AM
Quote from: kiltedbryan on January 12, 2011, 07:24:32 PM
Quote from: smedindy on January 12, 2011, 06:40:45 PM
Well, vote then!  :D

I might.  My stumbling block (outside of having time) is feeling like I don't know much about teams outside of the Great Lakes and Midwest.

You study Massey, which is what I do to inform me of the uninformable...

I put Massey in context, of course.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 13, 2011, 10:35:03 AM
Quote from: smedindy on January 13, 2011, 12:21:03 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2011, 06:45:42 PM
Yeah, Bryan, join us.

Thanks for the comment on Anderson.  I just did not have an HCAC team on the radar yet.

You hate to slot teams, but we have enough history with performance in the playoffs that you almost have to keep these teams/conferences in mind.  We have 40 Pool A conferences.

AMCC - 0
ASC - 1
Capital AC -  1
Centennial  -1
CUNYAC - 0
CCIW - 3
CSAC - 0
E8 - 1
GNAC - 0
GSAC - 0
HCAC - 1
Independent - 0 (and then Chapman puts together a good year.)
IIAC - 1
Landmark - 0-1
LEC - 1
LL -- 0
MASCAC - 0-1
MIAA - 1
MAC-C 0-1
MAC-F 0-1
MWC - 1
MIAC - 1
NESCAC - 2-3
NEWMAC - 1
NEAC - 0
NATHC - 0
NCAC -  1-2  Yes, always at least one from the NCAC, and DePauw makes them even stronger.
NECC - 0
NJAC - 1
NWC - 1
OAC -1
ODAC 2-3
Pres AC - 0
Skyline - 0
SCAC - 0-1
SCIAC - 0-1
SLIAC - 0
SUNYAC - 0-1
UAA 2-3
UMAC 0
USA South - 0-1
WIAC 3

I identifed anywhere from 26-37 27-39 teams from the conferences that ought to be on the radar, and I don't think that there is much difference between #25 and #50 in the country either!

Did you forget the NCAC?  
Thanks.  +1!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 13, 2011, 03:39:55 PM

There's a lot of good matchups this week that will tell us a lot about a lot of teams.  I was sort of hoping to hold off the voting until this weekend is over.  We'll see how it goes.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 13, 2011, 04:08:38 PM
Eastern Mennonite has gotta fall decently far, right?

Am I correct in saying that their only win of substance is the home win against Ferrum?

Marietta will fall too.

Next week will be difficult.

Any suggestions on who should jump in?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 13, 2011, 04:25:06 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 13, 2011, 04:08:38 PM
Eastern Mennonite has gotta fall decently far, right?  Hmmm...  #11 beat #14 in a conference game at home by 5 points.  Sounds about right to me.  The ODAC is one conference for which I have to cut some slack.   ;)

Am I correct in saying that their only win of substance is the home win against Ferrum?

Marietta will fall too.

Next week will be difficult.

Any suggestions on who should jump in?
As for the OAC, one of the most balanced conferences in the country.  How many teams do they have between #25 and #100?  They seem to beat up on themselves!  (But according to Massey, only three teams this year...Marietta, JCU and Capital).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 13, 2011, 04:35:51 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 13, 2011, 04:25:06 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 13, 2011, 04:08:38 PM
Eastern Mennonite has gotta fall decently far, right?  Hmmm...  #11 beat #14 in a conference game at home by 5 points.  Sounds about right to me.  The ODAC is one conference for which I have to cut some slack.   ;)

Am I correct in saying that their only win of substance is the home win against Ferrum?

Marietta will fall too.

Next week will be difficult.

Any suggestions on who should jump in?
As for the OAC, one of the most balanced conferences in the country.  How many teams do they have between #25 and #100?  They seem to beat up on themselves!

But why are they #14 to begin with? This is why I never start with the previous week's poll and "adjust" based on what happened. New week, new slate.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 16, 2011, 09:01:48 PM

Alright, I did the best I could with 16-25; this was rough.

I'm in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 16, 2011, 09:54:58 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 16, 2011, 09:01:48 PM

Alright, I did the best I could with 16-25; this was rough.

I'm in.

I'm surprised you made it thru 15! :D  My 1-12 went as fast as I could write 'em down - after that I wanted to write 'vacant' for about 7-8 slots!  (I finally got a ballot, but I'm not happy with ANY of the 13-25 being much above 20.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 16, 2011, 10:07:22 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 16, 2011, 09:54:58 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 16, 2011, 09:01:48 PM

Alright, I did the best I could with 16-25; this was rough.

I'm in.

I'm surprised you made it thru 15! :D  My 1-12 went as fast as I could write 'em down - after that I wanted to write 'vacant' for about 7-8 slots!  (I finally got a ballot, but I'm not happy with ANY of the 13-25 being much above 20.)

Mine's in.

I ran out of Top 25's after about #16.  My top 12 were easy, too.

I wish that the ASC were competing in the East, Atlantic, Mideast or Great Lakes Regions!

It looks as tho' some teams will have an easy run to the Sweet 16 unless the committee can move some brackets around in ODAC country.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 17, 2011, 10:13:14 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 16, 2011, 09:54:58 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 16, 2011, 09:01:48 PM

Alright, I did the best I could with 16-25; this was rough.

I'm in.

I'm surprised you made it thru 15!   My 1-12 went as fast as I could write 'em down - after that I wanted to write 'vacant' for about 7-8 slots!  (I finally got a ballot, but I'm not happy with ANY of the 13-25 being much above 20.)

I felt like 13, 14, and 15 were a cut above, although it would have been nicer to have them at 18, 19, and 20.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 17, 2011, 10:26:47 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 17, 2011, 10:13:14 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 16, 2011, 09:54:58 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 16, 2011, 09:01:48 PM

Alright, I did the best I could with 16-25; this was rough.

I'm in.

I'm surprised you made it thru 15!   My 1-12 went as fast as I could write 'em down - after that I wanted to write 'vacant' for about 7-8 slots!  (I finally got a ballot, but I'm not happy with ANY of the 13-25 being much above 20.)

I felt like 13, 14, and 15 were a cut above, although it would have been nicer to have them at 18, 19, and 20.
Same thoughts here!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 17, 2011, 02:06:56 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 16, 2011, 09:54:58 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 16, 2011, 09:01:48 PM

Alright, I did the best I could with 16-25; this was rough.

I'm in.

I'm surprised you made it thru 15! :D  My 1-12 went as fast as I could write 'em down - after that I wanted to write 'vacant' for about 7-8 slots!  (I finally got a ballot, but I'm not happy with ANY of the 13-25 being much above 20.)

Apparently my view is shared by many.  With 6 ballots in, ALL 72 top 12 votes are the same 12 teams!  After that it is sheer chaos! ::)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 17, 2011, 11:23:31 PM
Still only seven ballots - I trust there are plenty more coming overnight or tomorrow?!

The top 12 is still unanimous.  (Obviously I'm not gonna say which 12 teams that is and 'pollute' later ballots! :P)  I recall a couple of years ago where we went two or three weeks with a unanimous top 7 (perhaps it was even 8), but if there has ever been a unanimous top 12, I certain didn't notice it.

Still chaos below, though ballot number 7 actually reduced the number of 'orphans' by two.  Perhaps we have achieved a 'top 36' (though I doubt it)! 8-)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 18, 2011, 01:00:07 AM
And the carnage has already begun anew as the 2 Top 25 teams in action lose tonight.

This is why the poll gets slightly tainted. Top 25 scores that aren't known to those of us that turn in a ballot after Sunday's games and before Monday's games will probably result in higher placements by us for those Top 25 teams, than they will for the later pollsters, who now know that certain teams have suffered a loss. We know for sure that 2 teams in the Top 25 will be affected by this. There might also be teams just outside the Top 25 that play on Monday night and by submitting a poll on Tuesday, a person would have more information to make a decision on those teams than someone who submitted their ballot prior to Monday's tipoff. My poll submitted right now would definitely be different than the one I submitted early this morning. I know Mr. Ypsi wants to get as many opinions as possible but there should be a deadline of tipoff on Monday to submit your poll. This would also guarantee that our pollsters are turning in a ballot without the help of the lastest D3hoops poll because that usually isn't available until late Monday night. Just a thought Mr. Y, but I think it makes the poll more accurate if we all turn them in around the same time. That still gives us most of Sunday and Monday to do a 25 team poll. Usually the only Top 25 teams that play on Sunday are the UAA and after this week's poll that may not be the case. :o (Although Brandeis will probably hang around in the 20's.)

What do the rest of you guys think? We have a pretty good group of posters in the poll and the participants that I know of are all very knowledgeable about D3 hoops. I just think our poll would benefit and produce a more accurate end result if we are all submitting our ballots based on the same information. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 18, 2011, 01:17:51 AM
In order to increase participation, he's being flexible, and as I can have a chaotic schedule, I applaud it.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 18, 2011, 01:24:57 AM
I've thought about that (and worried about that), but also monitored it.  I haven't found any noticeable difference between polls submitted before or after the d3.hoops poll.  As to Monday games, I'll watch again as the Tommies and St. Mary's went down (personally, I never had the Tommies above #5 anyway, though they had four votes of 1-3; I'll keep an eye on tomorrow's ballots).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 18, 2011, 09:41:46 AM
I submitted late Monday and disregarded Monday's results in my ballot and the new poll.  Thank God and Darryl for "How they fared".
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: frodotwo on January 18, 2011, 03:47:45 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on January 18, 2011, 09:41:46 AM
I submitted late Monday and disregarded Monday's results in my ballot and the new poll.  Thank God and Darryl for "How they fared".

That plus knightslappy's RPI-regional rankings every monday http://tomaroonandgold.blogspot.com/ (http://tomaroonandgold.blogspot.com/)

and a little bit of Massey's as well
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 18, 2011, 03:54:00 PM
Only three hours 'til normal publication time, and we are still stuck on just SEVEN ballots :'( - I sure hope there are more in the pipeline!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 18, 2011, 03:56:24 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 18, 2011, 03:54:00 PM
Only three hours 'til normal publication time, and we are still stuck on just SEVEN ballots :'( - I sure hope there are more in the pipeline!
Did you not get mine?  I sent it after your initial 7 in post.  Or is it just that bad? ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 18, 2011, 04:45:23 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on January 18, 2011, 03:56:24 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 18, 2011, 03:54:00 PM
Only three hours 'til normal publication time, and we are still stuck on just SEVEN ballots :'( - I sure hope there are more in the pipeline!
Did you not get mine?  I sent it after your initial 7 in post.  Or is it just that bad? ;D

OOPS!  Yes, I got it and tallied it - I just can't count to 8! :-[

(I'm sure that gives everyone real faith in the poll! :P)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 18, 2011, 06:33:34 PM
Coming up to the usual deadline.  I'll hold up if anyone responds that extra time would mean extra ballots.  Anyone?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 18, 2011, 07:31:49 PM
I really hate to go with just eight of us, so I'm holding one more hour.  Greg? PS? pbrooks3? Kilted Bryan? Sac? OS? Bueller? Anyone??!!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 18, 2011, 07:51:14 PM
I can try to get one in... I'm in class right now, might be able to get 'er done sometime in the next 3 hours or so... hopefully sooner.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 18, 2011, 09:25:01 PM
I should have mine in, but it won't be for a couple of hours yet, Chuck.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 18, 2011, 09:32:38 PM
All right!  Browbeating works!!  I'll wait - any more than these two? :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 18, 2011, 09:50:02 PM
+1!  GS, PS!   :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 18, 2011, 10:04:09 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 18, 2011, 09:32:38 PM
All right!  Browbeating works!!  I'll wait - any more than these two? :D

No go for me... too much of my bracket has changed and I have to go deal with broken car issues... 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 18, 2011, 10:15:48 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on January 18, 2011, 10:04:09 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 18, 2011, 09:32:38 PM
All right!  Browbeating works!!  I'll wait - any more than these two? :D

No go for me... too much of my bracket has changed and I have to go deal with broken car issues... 

Oh, boo hoo - you're gonna stand up the PP for a lousy broken car! :o

Just kidding, of course - hope all goes well, and see you next week.

(And if you want broken brackets, try the women's top 25 - Hope lasted less than 24 hours in the #1 spot before losing to arch-rival Calvin!)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pbrooks3 on January 18, 2011, 10:32:58 PM
My poll is in.

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: kiltedbryan on January 18, 2011, 10:43:43 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 18, 2011, 07:31:49 PM
I really hate to go with just eight of us, so I'm holding one more hour.  Greg? PS? pbrooks3? Kilted Bryan? Sac? OS? Bueller? Anyone??!!

Sorry, not going to get one together for this week yet.  But I got a list together, and I think I should be set up with my initial entry for next week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 18, 2011, 10:53:45 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 18, 2011, 07:31:49 PM
I really hate to go with just eight of us, so I'm holding one more hour.  Greg? PS? pbrooks3? Kilted Bryan? Sac? OS? Bueller? Anyone??!!

But the eight that were in were excellent!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 18, 2011, 11:04:30 PM
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm1.static.flickr.com%2F16%2F21787493_4abdf7ea42.jpg&hash=ca74a9ae8c7240e819d5b5eeda208fc54931fb47)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 19, 2011, 12:00:20 AM
Only ten voters, but hopefully we get to 12-13 next week.

1.  Wooster       243 (1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,3,4)
2.  Whitworth     231 (1,1,3,3,3,3,3,3,4,5)
3.  Va Wes         229 (1,2,2,2,2,2,4,4,5,7)
4.  St. Thomas    216 (1,2,2,3,4,4,5,5,9,9) [note: both 9 votes came after Monday]
5.  Middlebury    211 (3,4,4,5,5,5,5,6,6,6)
6.  Augustana     200 (2,4,5,5,6,7,7,7,8,9)
7.  Williams         199 (3,6,6,6,6,6,6,7,7,8)
8.  Amherst         175 (4,7,7,8,8,9,9,9,12,12)
9.  Wabash         173 (7,8,8,8,8,8,9,10,10,11)
10  UWRF            161 (7,9,9,10,10,10,11,11,11,11)
11  Randy Mac     158 (8, 10,10,10,10,10,11,11,11,11)
12  UWSP            142 (9.11,12,12,12,12,12,12,12,16)
13  St. Mary's       107 (14,14,14,14,14,15,16,17,17,18)
14  Hanover         103 (13,13,13,14,14,15,15,16,18,-)
15  EMU               101 (13,13,13,13,15,15,15,16,20,-)
16  WPI                 85 (15,15,16,16,17,17,17,17,20,25)
17  IWU                 75 (12,13,13,15,15,16,24,25,-,-)
t18  Ramapo         64 (14,16,19,19,20,20,21,21,23,23)
t18  St. Norbs       64 (17,17,18,18,19,20,20,20,21,-)
20  W. Conn.        62 (16,17,18,18,19,19,20,22,23,-)
21  Lewis&Clark   52 (13,16,17,18,22,22,24,24,-,-)
22  Brandeis         34 (18,21,21,21,21,23,23,-,-,-)
23  Chapman        26 (14,18,22,24)
24  Ferrum            21 (21,22,22,23,23,24)
25  Ithaca             20 (19,19,20)

26  Marietta           19 (20,21,22,24,25,25)
27  Becker              15 (19,22,23,25)
28  Wheaton (IL)    14 (16,23,25)
29  Anderson           9 (19,24)
30  Scranton            8 (18)
31  Texas-Dallas      7 (19)
32  Birmingham-S     6 (22,24)
33  Thiel                   5 ((21)
34  Franklin&M         4 (22)
35  Concordia (WI)  3 (24,25)
36  Alvernia             2 (24)
t37 Bowdoin            1
t37 Centre               1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 19, 2011, 01:10:01 AM
Whitworth a #2 without a #2 vote. 
St. Marys a #13 without being more than a #14 on any ballot.

Funny and odd.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 19, 2011, 02:41:30 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on January 19, 2011, 01:10:01 AM
Whitworth a #2 without a #2 vote. 
St. Marys a #13 without being more than a #14 on any ballot.

Funny and odd.

Not THAT odd with only ten voters. :P

Note also that Va Wes got no #3 votes, but landed third.  Randy Mac received its LOWEST votes at #11, yet finished 11th.  IWU had 60% of their votes at 16th or above, yet finished 17th.

All sorts of reasons I wish we could get more voters!

(For this week, anyway, the top twelve are pretty solid - they got 119 of the possible 120 votes for the top twelve spots.).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 19, 2011, 08:33:09 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on January 19, 2011, 01:10:01 AM
Whitworth a #2 without a #2 vote. 
St. Marys a #13 without being more than a #14 on any ballot.

Funny and odd.
You gotta start the Consensus Top 12 somewhere...   ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 19, 2011, 12:05:01 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 19, 2011, 12:00:20 AM
4.  St. Thomas    216 (1,2,2,3,4,4,5,5,9,9) [note: both 9 votes came after Monday]


We're only supposed to consider games through Sunday, correct?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 19, 2011, 12:37:48 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 19, 2011, 12:05:01 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 19, 2011, 12:00:20 AM
4.  St. Thomas    216 (1,2,2,3,4,4,5,5,9,9) [note: both 9 votes came after Monday]


We're only supposed to consider games through Sunday, correct?

Correct.  Since both voters had the Tommies at #3 last week, I can only conclude that they included the Monday loss in their vote.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 19, 2011, 02:21:22 PM
I voted for the Top 23 of 25.

I have one orphan (Centre at #25, which isn't much of an orphan) and only 1 real outlier, which is Wheaton IL at #16.  But I have a hard time figuring out a better team to put into the "#24" slot than Wheaton!

I dropped Marietta when they appeared to be falling back into the pack, and 'Deis, buoyed by overwhleming mediocrity, is still falling rapidly!

I hope that we have some teams begin to separate themselves from the pack now that conferrence play has begun.  When I have watched the E8 on webcast, they seem to be so "unstellar".  They look like they might match up as "mid-level" ASC when the games were played.  ASC "athleticism" and speed would stomp them on some nights.  E8 slow-down half court style would dominate the game flow on other nights.  I am just not convinced that Ferrum is Top 25.  Top 50?  And maybe getting the Pool A bid from the USA South?  But, I don't think that they win the first round game as a Top 25 team should (except for the Bracket of Death games to be held in a gym somewhere in Wisconsin or Illinois.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 19, 2011, 03:13:27 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 19, 2011, 12:37:48 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 19, 2011, 12:05:01 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 19, 2011, 12:00:20 AM
4.  St. Thomas    216 (1,2,2,3,4,4,5,5,9,9) [note: both 9 votes came after Monday]


We're only supposed to consider games through Sunday, correct?

Correct.  Since both voters had the Tommies at #3 last week, I can only conclude that they included the Monday loss in their vote.

That was part of my issue... I started with last week's ballot and took into account the Tommie's loss... and then realized that it happened on Monday. 

And they were my #1 team last week, so that would have skewed things in both instances.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 19, 2011, 05:07:25 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on January 19, 2011, 03:13:27 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 19, 2011, 12:37:48 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 19, 2011, 12:05:01 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 19, 2011, 12:00:20 AM
4.  St. Thomas    216 (1,2,2,3,4,4,5,5,9,9) [note: both 9 votes came after Monday]


We're only supposed to consider games through Sunday, correct?

Correct.  Since both voters had the Tommies at #3 last week, I can only conclude that they included the Monday loss in their vote.

That was part of my issue... I started with last week's ballot and took into account the Tommie's loss... and then realized that it happened on Monday. 

And they were my #1 team last week, so that would have skewed things in both instances.

Yeah, and since it is virtually impossible to 'unlearn' a Monday result, ideally voters would make all ballots before Monday games.  But since nearly 50% of ballots have been submitted late Monday or on Tuesday, I'm afraid to try to enforce an earlier deadline.

I guess I'll just cross my fingers that only rarely will a Monday game have much impact on the poll.  It seems that Monday games involving ranked teams are relatively rare (and Monday losses by ranked teams are rarer still). ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 19, 2011, 07:39:39 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 19, 2011, 12:37:48 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 19, 2011, 12:05:01 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 19, 2011, 12:00:20 AM
4.  St. Thomas    216 (1,2,2,3,4,4,5,5,9,9) [note: both 9 votes came after Monday]


We're only supposed to consider games through Sunday, correct?

Correct.  Since both voters had the Tommies at #3 last week, I can only conclude that they included the Monday loss in their vote.

So basically if those voters had voted before Monday's game results were known to them, and kept the Tommies at #3,  St. Thomas would be #3 in this week's poll and possibly could have been #2. ??? St. Mary's was probably not impacted because there is such a big discrepancy between #13 and #12. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 19, 2011, 08:36:46 PM
And it matters not, because it will all come out in the wash next week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 19, 2011, 10:07:10 PM
Quote from: magicman on January 19, 2011, 07:39:39 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 19, 2011, 12:37:48 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 19, 2011, 12:05:01 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 19, 2011, 12:00:20 AM
4.  St. Thomas    216 (1,2,2,3,4,4,5,5,9,9) [note: both 9 votes came after Monday]


We're only supposed to consider games through Sunday, correct?

Correct.  Since both voters had the Tommies at #3 last week, I can only conclude that they included the Monday loss in their vote.

So basically if those voters had voted before Monday's game results were known to them, and kept the Tommies at #3,  St. Thomas would be #3 in this week's poll and possibly could have been #2. ??? St. Mary's was probably not impacted because there is such a big discrepancy between #13 and #12. 

No, the Tommies would still have been 4th.  They would perhaps be 12 points higher, but need 13 to tie Va Wes.  Both voters had Va Wes #2 both last week and this week.  They needed 15 points to tie Whitworth, and both voters presumably would have had Whitworth 1 slot lower, so they still would have trailed Whitworth by 1 (though Va Wes might have tied Whitworth for 2nd - Va Wes may have been the victim of the Tommies loss :P).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 20, 2011, 05:30:37 PM
I knew that the Tommies had lost, and dropped them accordingly, but for some reason I thought that the game had been played on Sunday. I forgot that the MIAC has a Monday/Wednesday/Saturday schedule.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 23, 2011, 12:15:07 AM

IWU goes down to North Park and continues to vindicate my not having voted for them at all this season.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 23, 2011, 01:36:04 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 23, 2011, 12:15:07 AM

IWU goes down to North Park and continues to vindicate my not having voted for them at all this season.
First, a lunar eclipse on the Winter Solstice and now this.

Who knows, da Bears may win the Super Bowl.

In any case, a sign of the end times...
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 23, 2011, 01:57:33 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 23, 2011, 01:36:04 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 23, 2011, 12:15:07 AM

IWU goes down to North Park and continues to vindicate my not having voted for them at all this season.
First, a lunar eclipse on the Winter Solstice and now this.

Who knows, da Bears may win the Super Bowl.

In any case, a sign of the end times...

While NPU has been reeling lately, I've always considered them a dangerous team.  I was out this evening and didn't see IWU play (if video was even available), but from what I've read (and intuited), NPU played a fantastic game on the same night that the Titans imploded.  They shot horribly from the field and were out-rebounded (by a smaller team) 39-25.  That MAY be Viking defense, or MAY be a horrid game (probably some of each), but the coup-de-grace came during the final desperate attempt at a 'miracle finish': down 10 with under a minute, then down 8 with 35 seconds, Sean Johnson makes the steal, is fouled, and (although an 80% FT shooter) MISSES both shots! :o  (Maybe the Vikings have come up with a great FT defense! :P)

I have no explanation for tonite's game, but will continue to have IWU in the lower reaches of the top 25, because I just can't find 25 teams I honestly think are better.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 23, 2011, 01:27:47 PM

North Park is good.  I've had them on the radar, despite iffy results.  I've just not seen enough from IWU to vote for them yet.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 23, 2011, 05:55:42 PM

With Ferrum pulling out the comeback to win at home over NC Wesleyan - I've gotten my poll in.  From 13 on down there's even less confidence than last week.  If the champion doesn't come from that top 12 the world no longer makes sense.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 23, 2011, 07:57:57 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 23, 2011, 01:27:47 PM

North Park is good.  I've had them on the radar, despite iffy results.  I've just not seen enough from IWU to vote for them yet.

That deserves 1,000,000  ???......they are 8-9
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 23, 2011, 10:36:58 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 23, 2011, 12:15:07 AM

IWU goes down to North Park and continues to vindicate my not having voted for them at all this season.

I gave in and put IWU towards the bottom of my ballot last week, in spite of the fact that the Titans have been far from dominant in CCIW play, simply because I ran out of teams that are even in the ballpark for deserving top 25 consideration. I should've shown more fortitude.

Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 23, 2011, 01:36:04 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 23, 2011, 12:15:07 AM

IWU goes down to North Park and continues to vindicate my not having voted for them at all this season.
First, a lunar eclipse on the Winter Solstice and now this.

Who knows, da Bears may win the Super Bowl.

In any case, a sign of the end times...

Uh, Ralph, you do realize that NPU beat IWU last year as well, don't you? This is hardly the stuff of hyperbole. Yeah, it was an upset win, but hardly an epochal one.

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 23, 2011, 01:57:33 AMWhile NPU has been reeling lately, I've always considered them a dangerous team.  I was out this evening and didn't see IWU play (if video was even available)

Lord love a duck, Chuck, Rob Berki and I have broadcast every NPU home game for the past two years. I posted a link to the video feed on CCIW Chat on Saturday afternoon:

Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 22, 2011, 04:08:26 PM
Quote from: AndOne on January 21, 2011, 03:51:45 PMI began touting Brian's suitability for all conference status last year. However, as usual, I wasn't taken very seriously

That was last year. I'm talking about this year.

Quote from: bopol on January 21, 2011, 10:57:58 PM
From a purely Carthage prospective, this team is just getting darn shallow.

Against North Park, they didn't get any rebounding out of Malcom Kelly or Nick Bauch, who have been the two hitting the boards the hardest.  I'm impressed with Bauch's play of late; more so than I was early in the year, but he only had 2 boards last night.  Kelly does crash the boards, but didn't do as much (maybe because of the foul trouble) and didn't have many against North Park.

???  Huh? Carthage hasn't even played North Park yet. NPU visits Carthage next Wednesday to end the first round-robin.

Let me remind those of you who will be staying at home this evening that Rob and I will be on the call as usual for tonight's North Park basketball broadcast, (http://www.audiosportsonline.net/Winter/2010Basketball/NorthPark.htm) as the Vikings host Illinois Wesleyan. Tipoff time is 7:30 pm, and my live halftime interview guest will be John Born, head coach of the NPU men's soccer team.

Either Rob or I post the link to the video feed at least half the time, and I figured that we were wasting our time in doing so because everybody knew about it. And you still weren't aware that we were broadcasting IWU @ NPU?

Sometimes I wonder about you, Chuck.

(BTW, the game is now archived, so you may click on the link and watch it at your leisure.)

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 23, 2011, 01:57:33 AMbut from what I've read (and intuited), NPU played a fantastic game on the same night that the Titans imploded.

NPU played very well, but "fantastic" is a real stretch. As I noted on CCIW Chat, the Vikings turned the ball over too much (19x) and didn't shoot all that well. The Titans didn't implode, either. I'm sure that it was one of their poorer games of the year, but I honestly don't feel that they're really a top-notch outfit to begin with. IWU, like a lot of other CCIW teams, has turned out to have more holes in it than most of us CCIW observers thought at the beginning of the year. The CCIW is Underachievement Headquarters for everybody who isn't either wearing Augustana navy blue or North Central crimson.

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 23, 2011, 01:57:33 AMThey shot horribly from the field and were out-rebounded (by a smaller team) 39-25.

NPU is not a smaller team than IWU.

Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 23, 2011, 01:27:47 PM

North Park is good.  I've had them on the radar, despite iffy results.

You must be talking about a different North Park than the one whose games I broadcast, HF, because the North Park I watch on a regular basis shouldn't be on anybody's radar. It should be on your Hubble telescope, at best.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 23, 2011, 10:40:40 PM
The Packers beat Da Bears, so the NPU win may have been the concession from Olympus to the mortals in Chicago this week.   :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 23, 2011, 11:01:07 PM
My humble apologies, Greg.  I never read carefully enough and thought you and Rob did an audio broadcast.  (I always thought you had a face made for radio*! ;))

[There goes MY Christmas card! :P ;D]

*line stolen from Garrison Keillor, referring to himself.  Greg IS better looking that Garrison, who (referring to Lake Wobegon) puts the lie to "all of the men are good-looking"! ;)

Ralph, that was one of the more lopsided, down-to-the-wire games in a long time.  The Packers absolutely dominated the game, yet a third-string Bears qb I had never heard of had cheeseheads sweating right up to the final interception! :o
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 23, 2011, 11:05:17 PM
This must be some type of cosmic justice...all those cheeseheads will be sitting in Jerry's stadium.   :D

I think that most old time Dallas fans hate the Packers more than any other non-East Division team, and the Steelers run a close second!



Mine is in.  Ughh!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 23, 2011, 11:08:15 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 23, 2011, 11:01:07 PM
My humble apologies, Greg.  I never read carefully enough and thought you and Rob did an audio broadcast.  (I always thought you had a face made for radio*! ;))

Rob and I are the first to tell people that there's two very good reasons why the camera operator never turns the camera around, even when I'm conducting an interview.

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 23, 2011, 11:01:07 PM*line stolen from Garrison Keillor, referring to himself.  Greg IS better looking that Garrison, who (referring to Lake Wobegon) puts the lie to "all of the men are good-looking"! ;)

Being told you're better-looking than Garrison Keillor is like being told that you're more sensitive than Don Rickles. Not exactly the most ringing of compliments.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 23, 2011, 11:14:46 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 23, 2011, 11:08:15 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 23, 2011, 11:01:07 PM
My humble apologies, Greg.  I never read carefully enough and thought you and Rob did an audio broadcast.  (I always thought you had a face made for radio*! ;))

Rob and I are the first to tell people that there's two very good reasons why the camera operator never turns the camera around, even when I'm conducting an interview.

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 23, 2011, 11:01:07 PM*line stolen from Garrison Keillor, referring to himself.  Greg IS better looking that Garrison, who (referring to Lake Wobegon) puts the lie to "all of the men are good-looking"! ;)

Being told you're better-looking than Garrison Keillor is like being told that you're more sensitive than Don Rickles. Not exactly the most ringing of compliments.

;D ;D ;D ;D  +k

Be grateful I didn't say you're more macho than Don Knotts! ;)

Or that your football acumen is better than Gordon Gee! ::)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 24, 2011, 10:01:08 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 23, 2011, 10:36:58 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 23, 2011, 01:27:47 PM

North Park is good.  I've had them on the radar, despite iffy results.

You must be talking about a different North Park than the one whose games I broadcast, HF, because the North Park I watch on a regular basis shouldn't be on anybody's radar. It should be on your Hubble telescope, at best.

I'm not considering voting for them, but they've had good results against strong teams.  When you're talking d3 there is a sense of have and have-not.  Some teams have the talent to beat anybody, but few are able to pull it off.  I try to keep those teams with the possibility of success "on the radar" so to speak, as a way of judging how other teams are doing relative to them.  NPU is ranked 140 by Massey right now, amongst the likes of LaVerne and Nazareth; I still consider North Park to be a bit more formidable than those squads due to schedule and performance.  IWU should be beating NPU, but this loss hurts them less in my eyes than a loss to a similarly ranked team.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 24, 2011, 10:14:49 AM
I am in. 

As for North Park being on radar, you must have an AWACS in your house.  My radar looks more like my microwave oven and North Park is not a "Hot Pocket".

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 24, 2011, 08:00:04 PM
Seven ballots in so far, and people are obviously having trouble with the bottom third of the ballot.  38 teams named so far, and 9 are orphans! :o

MANY slots still in tight battles, so your vote WILL count. ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 24, 2011, 09:02:20 PM
In.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 25, 2011, 06:59:04 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 24, 2011, 08:00:04 PM
Seven ballots in so far, and people are obviously having trouble with the bottom third of the ballot.  38 teams named so far, and 9 are orphans! :o

MANY slots still in tight battles, so your vote WILL count. ;)

I probably added a couple orphans to that list.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 25, 2011, 08:46:28 AM

New "real" poll out now.  I'm surprised at how many of the teams there I named.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 25, 2011, 08:59:05 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 25, 2011, 08:46:28 AM

New "real" poll out now.  I'm surprised at how many of the teams there I named.

I'm surprised at how many voters named IWU.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 25, 2011, 05:19:08 PM
Quote from: magicman on January 25, 2011, 06:59:04 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 24, 2011, 08:00:04 PM
Seven ballots in so far, and people are obviously having trouble with the bottom third of the ballot.  38 teams named so far, and 9 are orphans! :o

MANY slots still in tight battles, so your vote WILL count. ;)

I probably added a couple orphans to that list.

You nailed it - you added exactly two orphans. ;)  [So far, KS is the leader with 4 orphans.]

We're less than two hours from the intended posting time, but we're still at only 9 ballots.  PLEASE tell me there are more on the way! :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 25, 2011, 07:51:30 PM
Never heard from anyone, so here we go with a disappointing 9 ballots. :(

1.  Wooster        222 (1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,2)
2.  Whitworth     219 (1,1,1,2,2,2,2,2,2)
3.  Middlebury     204 (3,3,3,3,3,3,4,4,4)
4.  Augustana     193 (3,3,4,4,4,5,6,6,6)
5.  Williams          192 (3,4,4,4,5,5,5,6,6)
6.  Va Wes           166 (5,5,6,7,7,8,10,10,10)
7.  Amherst          165 (5,5,6,7,7,7,8,12,12)
8.  St. Thomas      163 (5,6,6,8,8,9,9,10,10)
9.  UWRF              157 (7,7,7,8,9,9,9,10,11)
10 Randy Mac       147 (8,8,9,9,10,10,11,11,11)
11 UWSP              140 (7,7,7,8,9,11,11,11,11,12)
12 Wabash           134 (8,8,9,11,12,12,13,13,14)
13 WPI                  106 (12,13,13,13,13,15,16,16,17)
14 W. Conn             96 (12,14,14,14,14,15,16,18,21)
15 St. Norbert         91 (12,13,14,15,15,15,16,17,-)
16 Lewis&Clark       83 (13,14,14,15,16,16,18,20,25)
17 EMU                   61 (13,16,16,18,18,19,21,-,-)
18 St. Mary's           48 (14,18,18,19,19,23,24,25,-)
19 Chapman           45 (17,18,20,21,21,21,21,24.-)
20 Ferrum               43 (17,19,19,19,20,22,23,-,-)
21 Marietta             35 (15,19,20,21,22,24,-,-,-)
22 Ramapo             31 (16,19,20,22,22,-,-,-,-)
23 Becker               26 (17,17,22,23,25,-,-,-,-)
t24 Centre             23 (17,20,21,23,-,-,-,-,-)
t24 IWU                 23 (17,17,23,25,25,-,-,-,-)

26 Concordia WI    21 (19,22,22,22,24)
27 Hanover            13 (15,24)
t28 Anderson          12 (20,20)
t28 UMHB                12 (20,22,24)
t30 Scranton            11 18,24,25)
t30 Kean                  11 (15)
32 Birmingham-S       8 (18)
33 Franklin&M           6 (23,23)
t34 Hope                  5 (23,24)
t34 Randolph           5 (21)
36 Oswego              3 (23)
37 Rochester           2 (24)
t38 Elizabethtown    1
t38 Hobart                1
t38 Wittenberg         1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 25, 2011, 07:57:08 PM
Two quick notes:

Wooster and Whitworth got ALL of the #1 and #2 votes.  They seem uncatchable until one or the other loses.

Our top 12 (just like in the 'real' poll) is the same top 12 as last week (just re-arranged a bit).  Not QUITE as solid (last week they had 119 of 120 possible votes; this week 105 of 108), but again a steep drop to #13.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 25, 2011, 08:30:37 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 25, 2011, 07:51:30 PM

t34 Hope                  5 (23,24)


I haven't voted yet this year so I know it wasn't me,  not sure if FDF is doing it or not.........I was pretty surprised that Hope didn't get at least a couple votes in the real poll.

12-5, 8-2 vs D3 and two of their early losses came to teams that are 19-3 and 18-4 in the first two games of the year.  Another a 1 point loss @ Carthage, and a 4th to the probable 3-time National Champion in NCCAA II.

Funny thing is if Hope had played Oberlin and Earlham instead of Davenport and Cornerstone they would be ranked at 14-3. :-\
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 25, 2011, 08:45:27 PM
Quote from: sac on January 25, 2011, 08:30:37 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 25, 2011, 07:51:30 PM

t34 Hope                  5 (23,24)


I haven't voted yet this year so I know it wasn't me,  not sure if FDF is doing it or not.........I was pretty surprised that Hope didn't get at least a couple votes in the real poll.

12-5, 8-2 vs D3 and two of their early losses came to teams that are 19-3 and 18-4 in the first two games of the year.  Another a 1 point loss @ Carthage, and a 4th to the probable 3-time National Champion in NCCAA II.

Funny thing is if Hope had played Oberlin and Earlham instead of Davenport and Cornerstone they would be ranked at 14-3. :-\

Or they could simply change the spelling from H-O-P-E to I-W-U. They surely would have received votes then.

I'll claim the #23 vote.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 25, 2011, 09:19:17 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 25, 2011, 08:45:27 PM
Quote from: sac on January 25, 2011, 08:30:37 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 25, 2011, 07:51:30 PM

t34 Hope                  5 (23,24)


I haven't voted yet this year so I know it wasn't me,  not sure if FDF is doing it or not.........I was pretty surprised that Hope didn't get at least a couple votes in the real poll.

12-5, 8-2 vs D3 and two of their early losses came to teams that are 19-3 and 18-4 in the first two games of the year.  Another a 1 point loss @ Carthage, and a 4th to the probable 3-time National Champion in NCCAA II.

Funny thing is if Hope had played Oberlin and Earlham instead of Davenport and Cornerstone they would be ranked at 14-3. :-\

Or they could simply change the spelling from H-O-P-E to I-W-U. They surely would have received votes then.

I'll claim the #23 vote.

I was the other person who put Hope on my ballot. And, yeah, I didn't put Illinois Wesleyan on mine, either. The Titans team that I saw on Saturday night is not a team that belongs in the Top 25, at least not right now.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 25, 2011, 09:34:01 PM
Hope and IWU have had similar seasons this year with regards to injuries and personnel.  Neither has played very many games with the lineup they thought they would have in October (in Hope's case that # will be zero).  I think IWU's injury woes have been potentially more damaging to their success.  Hope has admirably been able to work around their roster issues with surprising success.  That success is tenuous and I certainly don't think they are in a position to take anyone for granted in the MIAA this year.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 25, 2011, 09:44:23 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 25, 2011, 09:19:17 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 25, 2011, 08:45:27 PM
Quote from: sac on January 25, 2011, 08:30:37 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 25, 2011, 07:51:30 PM

t34 Hope                  5 (23,24)


I haven't voted yet this year so I know it wasn't me,  not sure if FDF is doing it or not.........I was pretty surprised that Hope didn't get at least a couple votes in the real poll.

12-5, 8-2 vs D3 and two of their early losses came to teams that are 19-3 and 18-4 in the first two games of the year.  Another a 1 point loss @ Carthage, and a 4th to the probable 3-time National Champion in NCCAA II.

Funny thing is if Hope had played Oberlin and Earlham instead of Davenport and Cornerstone they would be ranked at 14-3. :-\

Or they could simply change the spelling from H-O-P-E to I-W-U. They surely would have received votes then.

I'll claim the #23 vote.

I was the other person who put Hope on my ballot. And, yeah, I didn't put Illinois Wesleyan on mine, either. The Titans team that I saw on Saturday night is not a team that belongs in the Top 25, at least not right now.

Yet in the 'real' poll, IWU is #20 (not tied for #24).

As someone who bleeds green I have to say: maybe there is a reason you guys vote in my poll, not Pat's! ;D

(Wait, did I really post that? :D  Bad, Ypsi, Bad, Ypsi! ::))

It has (so far, at least) been a very disappointing season for the Titans.  I honestly expected them to have no more than two losses by this point.  They will be a heavy underdog on Wednesday AT Augustana, but I'm picking them anyway (in a heart over head) 'cause I see that as the last chance for anyone to keep Augie from running away with the regular-season title.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 25, 2011, 10:35:36 PM
Quote from: sac on January 25, 2011, 09:34:01 PM
Hope and IWU have had similar seasons this year with regards to injuries and personnel.  Neither has played very many games with the lineup they thought they would have in October (in Hope's case that # will be zero).  I think IWU's injury woes have been potentially more damaging to their success.

That's what depth is for, and we've been told repeatedly that Illinois Wesleyan has great depth. Hope has made its depth work better for it than has IWU thus far in conference play. Heck, I was very impressed by the way Hope made its depth work for it in the narrow loss to Carthage that I saw up in the Toolshed in Kenosha back in December. And it wasn't injuries that cost Illinois Wesleyan a win on Saturday night; the four leading scorers for the Titans were all healthy, all started, and all played most of the game. And they scored 44 points on 44 field goal attempts.

Regardless, even if injuries were the major reason why the Titans have struggled, the whole point of the poll is to rank the top 25 teams in the nation as they are, not as they would theoretically be if everyone was healthy.

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 25, 2011, 09:44:23 PM
Yet in the 'real' poll, IWU is #20 (not tied for #24).

As someone who bleeds green I have to say: maybe there is a reason you guys vote in my poll, not Pat's! ;D

Riiiight. 'cause all those pollsters of Pat's who haven't seen the Titans know so much more about them than people like me who have seen them play. ::)

I've spent over three decades watching Division III basketball. I know what a Top 25 team looks like, Chuck. And right now Illinois Wesleyan does not look like a Top 25 team. It might look like one a couple or three weeks from now; who knows? But at the moment this is one that the pollsters got wrong. I'll go one step further, in fact, and state that Wheaton shouldn't be getting any votes at the moment, either. The only CCIW team that's playing at a Top 25 level is Augustana.

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 25, 2011, 09:44:23 PMIt has (so far, at least) been a very disappointing season for the Titans.  I honestly expected them to have no more than two losses by this point.  They will be a heavy underdog on Wednesday AT Augustana, but I'm picking them anyway (in a heart over head) 'cause I see that as the last chance for anyone to keep Augie from running away with the regular-season title.

Augustana is going to win the league, Chuck. It's over. Make your peace with it.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 25, 2011, 10:52:40 PM
Augustana 17-0  6-0


The road to a perfect season literally will be the last 4 games on the road.

1/26    vs. Illinois Wesleyan * •    8:30 PM    LS A
1/29    at Elmhurst * •    8:30 PM    A
2/2    vs. North Park * •    8:30 PM    LS A
2/5    vs. Carthage * •    8:30 PM    LS A A
2/9    at Wheaton (Ill.) * •    8:30 PM    LS V A A
2/12    at Millikin * •    8:30 PM    A
2/19    at North Central (Ill.) * •    8:30 PM    A
2/22    at Illinois Wesleyan * •    8:30 PM    LS A A
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 25, 2011, 10:59:57 PM
Greg, Augie will almost certainly win the regular-season title, but IWU can change the odds drastically if they upset them tomorrow - hence, my pickems pick. ;)

If and when my 'heart over head' pick fails, THEN I'll make peace with it - but not before, confound it! 8-)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 25, 2011, 11:19:31 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 25, 2011, 10:52:40 PM
Augustana 17-0  6-0


The road to a perfect season literally will be the last 4 games on the road.

1/26    vs. Illinois Wesleyan * •    8:30 PM    LS A
1/29    at Elmhurst * •    8:30 PM    A
2/2    vs. North Park * •    8:30 PM    LS A
2/5    vs. Carthage * •    8:30 PM    LS A A
2/9    at Wheaton (Ill.) * •    8:30 PM    LS V A A
2/12    at Millikin * •    8:30 PM    A
2/19    at North Central (Ill.) * •    8:30 PM    A
2/22    at Illinois Wesleyan * •    8:30 PM    LS A A

It's hard to sort this out via the CCIW record book, but, as far as I can tell, this is the deepest that any CCIW team has ever gotten into the season with an unblemished record in the 65-year history of the league. It appears that the previous best starts were Wheaton's in 1995-96 (12 games) and Carthage's in 2001-02 (11 games). Both of those teams won the league that year ... but both of them started out with a loss very early in league play (Wheaton lost to IWU in the second game of the CCIW slate in '96, Carthage lost to Elmhurst in the CCIW opener in '02).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 25, 2011, 11:20:51 PM
Quote from: sac on January 25, 2011, 09:34:01 PM
Hope and IWU have had similar seasons this year with regards to injuries and personnel.  Neither has played very many games with the lineup they thought they would have in October (in Hope's case that # will be zero).  I think IWU's injury woes have been potentially more damaging to their success.  Hope has admirably been able to work around their roster issues with surprising success.  That success is tenuous and I certainly don't think they are in a position to take anyone for granted in the MIAA this year.

I don't know IWU's personnel as well as CCIW or IWU posters obviously, I can only clarify Hope's roster.

Right now they are playing without 3 of their top 7 or 8 players they expected to have at the beginning of the year.  Two starters, one an All-American candidate out for the year, the other the starting Center who's been out since the first game with no timetable on a return,  the 3rd was probably one of their top 3 point shooters and not a bad scorer when the game fell his way, he left school at the end of the first semester.

They were also playing without a nice looking wing player, albeit with almost no game experience coming into this season.  He's finally healthy and has played a bit in the last 2 or 3 MIAA contests.  Lastly at the semester break they lost a another bench player who was another 3 point sharp shooter, may not have contributed big minutes but its still a blow to your roster depth and practice squads.

So really 5 of the top 12 or 13 on the roster.


It has been one of the strangest seasons in Holland I can recall.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 25, 2011, 11:21:32 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 25, 2011, 11:19:31 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 25, 2011, 10:52:40 PM
Augustana 17-0  6-0


The road to a perfect season literally will be the last 4 games on the road.

1/26    vs. Illinois Wesleyan * •    8:30 PM    LS A
1/29    at Elmhurst * •    8:30 PM    A
2/2    vs. North Park * •    8:30 PM    LS A
2/5    vs. Carthage * •    8:30 PM    LS A A
2/9    at Wheaton (Ill.) * •    8:30 PM    LS V A A
2/12    at Millikin * •    8:30 PM    A
2/19    at North Central (Ill.) * •    8:30 PM    A
2/22    at Illinois Wesleyan * •    8:30 PM    LS A A

It's hard to sort this out via the CCIW record book, but, as far as I can tell, this is the deepest that any CCIW team has ever gotten into the season with an unblemished record in the 65-year history of the league. It appears that the previous best starts were Wheaton's in 1995-96 (12 games) and Carthage's in 2001-02 (11 games). Both of those teams won the league that year ... but both of them started out with a loss very early in league play (Wheaton lost to IWU in the second game of the CCIW slate in '96, Carthage lost to Elmhurst in the CCIW opener in '02).

That's kind of ridiculous.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 25, 2011, 11:38:12 PM
Quote from: sac on January 25, 2011, 11:21:32 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 25, 2011, 11:19:31 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 25, 2011, 10:52:40 PM
Augustana 17-0  6-0


The road to a perfect season literally will be the last 4 games on the road.

1/26    vs. Illinois Wesleyan * •    8:30 PM    LS A
1/29    at Elmhurst * •    8:30 PM    A
2/2    vs. North Park * •    8:30 PM    LS A
2/5    vs. Carthage * •    8:30 PM    LS A A
2/9    at Wheaton (Ill.) * •    8:30 PM    LS V A A
2/12    at Millikin * •    8:30 PM    A
2/19    at North Central (Ill.) * •    8:30 PM    A
2/22    at Illinois Wesleyan * •    8:30 PM    LS A A

It's hard to sort this out via the CCIW record book, but, as far as I can tell, this is the deepest that any CCIW team has ever gotten into the season with an unblemished record in the 65-year history of the league. It appears that the previous best starts were Wheaton's in 1995-96 (12 games) and Carthage's in 2001-02 (11 games). Both of those teams won the league that year ... but both of them started out with a loss very early in league play (Wheaton lost to IWU in the second game of the CCIW slate in '96, Carthage lost to Elmhurst in the CCIW opener in '02).

That's kind of ridiculous.
IMHO, that is National Coach of the Year stuff.   :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 26, 2011, 10:00:38 AM
QuoteI've spent over three decades watching Division III basketball. I know what a Top 25 team looks like, Chuck. And right now Illinois Wesleyan does not look like a Top 25 team. It might look like one a couple or three weeks from now; who knows? But at the moment this is one that the pollsters got wrong. I'll go one step further, in fact, and state that Wheaton shouldn't be getting any votes at the moment, either. The only CCIW team that's playing at a Top 25 level is Augustana.

Isn't it relative though? A Top 25 team 10 years ago isn't the same as a Top 25 team now. This season, especially, it's hard to say what a Top 15 team is, much less Top 25.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: dansand on January 26, 2011, 10:57:08 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 25, 2011, 11:19:31 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 25, 2011, 10:52:40 PM
Augustana 17-0  6-0


The road to a perfect season literally will be the last 4 games on the road.

1/26    vs. Illinois Wesleyan * •    8:30 PM    LS A
1/29    at Elmhurst * •    8:30 PM    A
2/2    vs. North Park * •    8:30 PM    LS A
2/5    vs. Carthage * •    8:30 PM    LS A A
2/9    at Wheaton (Ill.) * •    8:30 PM    LS V A A
2/12    at Millikin * •    8:30 PM    A
2/19    at North Central (Ill.) * •    8:30 PM    A
2/22    at Illinois Wesleyan * •    8:30 PM    LS A A

It's hard to sort this out via the CCIW record book, but, as far as I can tell, this is the deepest that any CCIW team has ever gotten into the season with an unblemished record in the 65-year history of the league. It appears that the previous best starts were Wheaton's in 1995-96 (12 games) and Carthage's in 2001-02 (11 games). Both of those teams won the league that year ... but both of them started out with a loss very early in league play (Wheaton lost to IWU in the second game of the CCIW slate in '96, Carthage lost to Elmhurst in the CCIW opener in '02).

Actually, Illinois Wesleyan started 20-0 in 1995-96. Augie, Wheaton, IWU and Carthage have their all-time results posted on the 'net. The only other school that I figured could have had a start that good was North Park when they were winning national championships, but if Greg says "no," I'll go with that. Also, Wheaton won its first 15 two years ago.


And BTW Ralph, C'mon man...let us at least get to those final four games before you bring it up.  ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 26, 2011, 05:04:35 PM
Quote from: dansand on January 26, 2011, 10:57:08 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 25, 2011, 11:19:31 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 25, 2011, 10:52:40 PM
Augustana 17-0  6-0


The road to a perfect season literally will be the last 4 games on the road.

1/26    vs. Illinois Wesleyan * •    8:30 PM    LS A
1/29    at Elmhurst * •    8:30 PM    A
2/2    vs. North Park * •    8:30 PM    LS A
2/5    vs. Carthage * •    8:30 PM    LS A A
2/9    at Wheaton (Ill.) * •    8:30 PM    LS V A A
2/12    at Millikin * •    8:30 PM    A
2/19    at North Central (Ill.) * •    8:30 PM    A
2/22    at Illinois Wesleyan * •    8:30 PM    LS A A

It's hard to sort this out via the CCIW record book, but, as far as I can tell, this is the deepest that any CCIW team has ever gotten into the season with an unblemished record in the 65-year history of the league. It appears that the previous best starts were Wheaton's in 1995-96 (12 games) and Carthage's in 2001-02 (11 games). Both of those teams won the league that year ... but both of them started out with a loss very early in league play (Wheaton lost to IWU in the second game of the CCIW slate in '96, Carthage lost to Elmhurst in the CCIW opener in '02).

Actually, Illinois Wesleyan started 20-0 in 1995-96. Augie, Wheaton, IWU and Carthage have their all-time results posted on the 'net. The only other school that I figured could have had a start that good was North Park when they were winning national championships, but if Greg says "no," I'll go with that. Also, Wheaton won its first 15 two years ago.

Thanks, Dan. In retrospect, I should've looked at the all-time results pages of those schools before making my post.

North Park has never made it through November and December unscathed. That's because, during the era of the five national championships, first Dan McCarrell and then Bosko Djurickovic regularly scheduled as many games against scholarship teams in non-conference play as they could. The Vikings won a bunch of games against those D1 and D2 schools, but they lost a bunch as well. It's a different landscape now, inasmuch as it's a lot harder to find D1 and D2 schools that are willing to play you if you're a decent D3 program (heck, if you're any kind of D3 program). Nowadays, the scholie schools have to come to you and ask you if you'll fill in an open date for them -- and not too many D1s and D2s do that anymore.

I think that that's why you don't see any lengthy start-of-season winning streaks in CCIW history prior to the last twenty years or so. North Park wasn't the only good CCIW program that tried to schedule D1s, D2s, and good NAIA teams in November and December in order to sharpen the team for league play.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 26, 2011, 05:42:47 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 26, 2011, 05:04:35 PM
Quote from: dansand on January 26, 2011, 10:57:08 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 25, 2011, 11:19:31 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 25, 2011, 10:52:40 PM
Augustana 17-0  6-0


The road to a perfect season literally will be the last 4 games on the road.

1/26    vs. Illinois Wesleyan * •    8:30 PM    LS A
1/29    at Elmhurst * •    8:30 PM    A
2/2    vs. North Park * •    8:30 PM    LS A
2/5    vs. Carthage * •    8:30 PM    LS A A
2/9    at Wheaton (Ill.) * •    8:30 PM    LS V A A
2/12    at Millikin * •    8:30 PM    A
2/19    at North Central (Ill.) * •    8:30 PM    A
2/22    at Illinois Wesleyan * •    8:30 PM    LS A A

It's hard to sort this out via the CCIW record book, but, as far as I can tell, this is the deepest that any CCIW team has ever gotten into the season with an unblemished record in the 65-year history of the league. It appears that the previous best starts were Wheaton's in 1995-96 (12 games) and Carthage's in 2001-02 (11 games). Both of those teams won the league that year ... but both of them started out with a loss very early in league play (Wheaton lost to IWU in the second game of the CCIW slate in '96, Carthage lost to Elmhurst in the CCIW opener in '02).

Actually, Illinois Wesleyan started 20-0 in 1995-96. Augie, Wheaton, IWU and Carthage have their all-time results posted on the 'net. The only other school that I figured could have had a start that good was North Park when they were winning national championships, but if Greg says "no," I'll go with that. Also, Wheaton won its first 15 two years ago.

Thanks, Dan. In retrospect, I should've looked at the all-time results pages of those schools before making my post.

North Park has never made it through November and December unscathed. That's because, during the era of the five national championships, first Dan McCarrell and then Bosko Djurickovic regularly scheduled as many games against scholarship teams in non-conference play as they could. The Vikings won a bunch of games against those D1 and D2 schools, but they lost a bunch as well. It's a different landscape now, inasmuch as it's a lot harder to find D1 and D2 schools that are willing to play you if you're a decent D3 program (heck, if you're any kind of D3 program). Nowadays, the scholie schools have to come to you and ask you if you'll fill in an open date for them -- and not too many D1s and D2s do that anymore.

I think that that's why you don't see any lengthy start-of-season winning streaks in CCIW history prior to the last twenty years or so. North Park wasn't the only good CCIW program that tried to schedule D1s, D2s, and good NAIA teams in November and December in order to sharpen the team for league play.

And now that they don't, their fans like to berate the fans of other schools that still do.  ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 26, 2011, 05:46:34 PM
KS, I don't recall anyone 'berating' Calvin or Hope for the lack of d3 in-region opponents - just noting that IF either school ends up on the wrong side of the Pool C bubble, there's not much room for complaining! ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 26, 2011, 06:31:01 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 26, 2011, 05:46:34 PM
KS, I don't recall anyone 'berating' Calvin or Hope for the lack of d3 in-region opponents - just noting that IF either school ends up on the wrong side of the Pool C bubble, there's not much room for complaining! ;)

Exactly.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 26, 2011, 09:33:19 PM
It looks like the stranglehold of the top 12 may have burst tonite, as #12 Wabash fell to a so-so OWU team.  However, there seems little consensus on who a new #12 would be, so we shall see - Wabash may hold on simply by default. ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 26, 2011, 10:21:29 PM
They went 2-2 on their 4-game road swing. Not bad, but not Top 12 material, either.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 26, 2011, 10:38:12 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 26, 2011, 09:33:19 PM
It looks like the stranglehold of the top 12 may have burst tonite, as #12 Wabash fell to a so-so OWU team.  However, there seems little consensus on who a new #12 would be, so we shall see - Wabash may hold on simply by default. ;)

The OWU team I saw @ Calvin in November was much less than so-so, but they've been getting better results of late.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 27, 2011, 11:48:45 PM
UMHB loses at Howard Payne tonight.  I gotta bring UMHB back to the pack somehow!

Go Sul Ross.



Final  UMHB 68, at SRSU 67  Shucks!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 30, 2011, 04:17:56 PM

I think I've got my poll set.  Barring a Ferrum surprise this afternoon, I'll be good to go.


I still have all the same teams in the Top 12.  Wabash dropped to #12 on my poll, but I think there's still a gap to #13.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 30, 2011, 07:52:10 PM
Mine is in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 30, 2011, 08:35:25 PM

Mine's in.  Not a ton of movement in the Top 25, but a lot of moving in the 26-50 range.  Lots of borderline teams proved something one way or the other this week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 30, 2011, 09:40:16 PM
I sure am glad we have a tournament to sort it all out (not that that eliminates all arguments, of course!).  Deciding on number one (or even the top ten) is crazy!  Wooster and Whitworth are the unanimous top 2 (last week, and seemingly no results to change that), but they have NO common opponents (and while I didn't dig thoroughly, I'm not sure they even have any common opponents with common opponents ;)).  Augie is also undefeated, but they too have no common opponents (except for Carthage).  Whitworth beat Carthage by more, but it was neutral court; Augie won AT Carthage. 

Then there's the NESCAC Big 3.  Amherst is also undefeated, having beaten Williams when #1 star Whittington was out with injury.  Williams has only that loss and beat Middlebury (when #1 star Sharry was out with injury).  Middlebury is otherwise undefeated.  None of them (so far as I spotted) has a mutual opponent with anyone except for Williams and Augie both beating NPU.  Williams crushed the Vikings on a neutral court, but Augie won by 13 at the notorious 'Crackerbox'.  (Ask IWU about the Crackerbox - the last two years they have almost certainly been the better team overall, and have lost two straight in Chicago.)

Then there's VaWes - only loss by 3 AT Guilford.  Again, I could find no common opponents with any other named team.

Then we've got St. Thomas and the WIAC teams.  St. Thomas beat them both, but lost to Hamline. :P  UWRF beat UWSP, but the way UWSP is destroying teams the last few weeks they NOW may be the top team in the country! :o

With balloting still ongoing, I hope I didn't give away too much about my ballot.  (But I'm not worried - nobody follows me anyway! :D)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 31, 2011, 01:11:53 AM
In. My top 12 stayed the same - just rearranged. I couldn't boot out L & C totally, but some bottom teams got the ol' heave-ho.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 31, 2011, 04:25:51 PM
I might try to do this, this week.  What's my deadline?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 31, 2011, 04:27:05 PM
Quote from: sac on January 31, 2011, 04:25:51 PM
I might try to do this, this week.  What's my deadline?

Ideally, Tuesday 7 pm, but I'm always willing to wait longer if requested.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 31, 2011, 09:02:15 PM
Six ballots in with only 22 hours to go - let's get moving folks! ;)

And the six is only because we welcome a new voter.  I'm sure many of you are probably familiar with nescac1, our first truly NESCAC voter since formerbant left a couple of years ago. 

Welcome aboard. ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: frodotwo on January 31, 2011, 09:19:00 PM
I'm in. I was looking for an update to knightslappy's RPI rankings to help with 16-25, but not posted there yet.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 31, 2011, 09:21:48 PM
Quote from: frodotwo on January 31, 2011, 09:19:00 PM
I'm in. I was looking for an update to knightslappy's RPI rankings to help with 16-25, but not posted there yet.

Gee whiz, you have a little problem with your Comcast high speed internet, and the whole world freaks out at you.  ;D

Should be up soon.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 31, 2011, 11:49:20 PM
Lest we have a repeat of two weeks ago, please remember that St. Thomas lost to St. Olaf AFTER the deadline for considering games.

Thank you.

[Now where are the ballots?  We're still on only seven.]
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 01, 2011, 12:19:08 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 31, 2011, 11:49:20 PM
Lest we have a repeat of two weeks ago, please remember that St. Thomas lost to St. Olaf AFTER the deadline for considering games.

Thank you.

[Now where are the ballots?  We're still on only seven.]
I'm in and my ballot has Tommies losing one spot not realizing they lost til I saw this post.  I gave a team a big jump this week and they slid. 

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 01, 2011, 08:30:23 AM
Mine's in and I didn't factor in  the St. Thomas loss in my rankings. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 01, 2011, 06:02:10 PM
We're now at nine (with several regulars/other folks talking of participating, not yet heard from), but barely an hour to the regularly scheduled deadline.  (Fortunately for any laggards, I'm working on my world-renowned lasagna, so will be late tonight anyway! ;D)

Any ballots in the pipeline?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 01, 2011, 06:30:59 PM
I'm putting mine together at the moment, Chuck.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 01, 2011, 07:17:03 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 01, 2011, 06:30:59 PM
I'm putting mine together at the moment, Chuck.

Received and tallied. :)

I'll start preparing the post in about an hour unless I get a request to delay.  sac?  Kilted Bryan?  pbrooks?  Bueller?  Anyone? ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 01, 2011, 10:40:55 PM
POSTERS' POLL (thru games of 1-30-11):

1.  Wooster        246  (1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2)
2.  Whitworth     244 (1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2,2,2)
3.  Augie             219 (3,3,3,3,3,3,5,6,6,6)
4.  Williams         218 (3,3,3,4,4,4,4,5,6,6)
5.  Midd              201 (4,4,5,5,6,6,6,7,8,8)
t6. Amherst        194 (4,4,5,5,6,7,7,8,10,10)
t6. VaWes          194 (4,4,5,5,5,7,7,8,10,11)
8.  St. Thomas    185 (3,5,6,8,8,8,9,9,9,10)
9.  UWRF             176 (7,7,7,8,8,9,9,9,10,10)
10. UWSP            172 (7,7,8,9,9,9,9,10,10,10)
11. Randy Mac     141 (11,11,11,11,11,11,12,12,14,15)
12. WPI               125 (11,12,12,12,12,13,14,15,15,16)
13. W. Conn        116 (10,12,13,14,14,14,15,15,16,21)
14. Wabash         109 (11,12,12,13,13,13,14,17,20,-)
15. St. Norbs       107 (11,12,14,14,14,15,15,15,17,-)
16. EMU               86 (13,13,15,16,16,16,18,19,22,-)
17. St. Mary's       83 (13,14,16,16,17,17,18,21,21,24)
18. Chapman       61 (14,17,19,20,20,20,21,21,21-)
19. Ferrum           60 (16,18,18,19,19,19,20,20,25,-)
20. Marietta         52 (17,17,18,20,21,22,22,22,23,-)
21. Ramapo         47 (13,18,18,18,22,23,24,25,-,-)
22. Centre           37 (16,18,19,20,22,25,25,-,-,-)
23. IWU               30 (17,19,20,21,23,-,-,-,-,-)
24. Rochester      22 (13,22,24,24,25,-,-,-,-,-)
25. Anderson       20 (18,19,22,25,-,-,-,-,-,-)

26. F & M              17 (21,22,23,23,24)
27. Hope              16 (17,19)
28. Becker            13 (15,24)
t29 L & C              10 (19,24,25)
t29 Birmingham-S 10 (16)
t31 Witt                  8 (23,23,25,25)
t31 Elizabethtown  8 (20,24)
33. Concordia WI   7 (23,24,24)
34. Ithaca              5 (21)
35. Oswego           4 (22)
t36 Hanover           3 (23)
t36 Kean                3 (23)
38. UT-Dallas          1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 01, 2011, 10:52:59 PM
I have all 25 of the Official poll, but only the 23 in the posters' poll.

Rochester is getting lots of love.

I have F&M at 24 and Witt at 25. 

First rankings are out tomorrow.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 02, 2011, 12:57:02 AM
For the second straight week, we are unanimous on the top two (though it is a close battle on which is which).  Our 'consensus' top 12 has for now been reduced to a 'consensus' top 10 - the top ten got 99 of 100 votes for the top ten.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 06, 2011, 05:58:47 PM
Mine is in.  I don't think that there are any surprises (thanks to Darryl Nester whose diligence makes the Posters' Poll so much easier.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 06, 2011, 10:13:52 PM
I got mine in early this week  ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 06, 2011, 10:17:03 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 06, 2011, 10:13:52 PM
I got mine in early this week  ;D
I wonder if Whitworth will be unanimous.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 06, 2011, 10:52:19 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 06, 2011, 10:17:03 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 06, 2011, 10:13:52 PM
I got mine in early this week  ;D
I wonder if Whitworth will be unanimous.

Based on past voting in our poll, I'd expect they will be.  In the d3hoops.com poll, Woo, Whit, and Augie were 18 points shy of sweeping the top three spots, so someone may have had a NESCAC team (or Va Wes) ahead of Whitworth.  I'll guess they'll be unanimous, but a #1 vote or two for Williams or Amherst would certainly not shock me.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 06, 2011, 11:37:37 PM
This was somewhat semi-demi easier than before. I said somewhat.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 07, 2011, 12:12:29 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 06, 2011, 10:52:19 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 06, 2011, 10:17:03 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 06, 2011, 10:13:52 PM
I got mine in early this week  ;D
I wonder if Whitworth will be unanimous.

Based on past voting in our poll, I'd expect they will be.  In the d3hoops.com poll, Woo, Whit, and Augie were 18 points shy of sweeping the top three spots, so someone may have had a NESCAC team (or Va Wes) ahead of Whitworth.  I'll guess they'll be unanimous, but a #1 vote or two for Williams or Amherst would certainly not shock me.

Having now looked at the matter more seriously, I'll now guess they will NOT be unanimous (on the real poll).  Whitworth's ONLY 'signature' wins are twice over Lewis & Clark and (on a neutral court) over Carthage.  While Carthage just knocked Augie from the ranks of the unbeaten, they have also lost to EIGHT other teams, so that win has been seriously degraded from what it looked like at the time.

Unbeaten is unbeaten, but out there on that d3 'island' it is impossible to know (so far) just how good they really are.  Whitworth WILL (IMO) be #1, but I'm now betting that at least 3-4 #1 votes will go to Williams/Amherst/VaWes.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 07, 2011, 12:53:59 AM
As much as I think it should be, I very much doubt it.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 07, 2011, 05:09:02 PM
7 ballots in and tallied so far.  What is most striking is that those 7 voters have only named 30 teams, and 4 are orphans so far.  Amazing that almost all the votes have gone to only 26 teams!  (Of course, the balloting so far does not included 'Mr. Outlier' :D)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 07, 2011, 07:45:05 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 07, 2011, 05:09:02 PM
7 ballots in and tallied so far.  What is most striking is that those 7 voters have only named 30 teams, and 4 are orphans so far.  Amazing that almost all the votes have gone to only 26 teams!  (Of course, the balloting so far does not included 'Mr. Outlier')


Wait, so am I still Captain Outlier or have I just been stripped of any outlier title altogether?

I've still got Anderson in - even after a loss.  That has to count for something.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 07, 2011, 07:59:35 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 07, 2011, 07:45:05 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 07, 2011, 05:09:02 PM
7 ballots in and tallied so far.  What is most striking is that those 7 voters have only named 30 teams, and 4 are orphans so far.  Amazing that almost all the votes have gone to only 26 teams!  (Of course, the balloting so far does not included 'Mr. Outlier')


Wait, so am I still Captain Outlier or have I just been stripped of any outlier title altogether?

I've still got Anderson in - even after a loss.  That has to count for something.

Notice I didn't say "Captain Outlier" - the Dean of Knightslappy U has definitely usurped your preeminent 'outlier' credentials the last few weeks! ;D  We'll await the end of the season (at least) to adjudicate the title, but geez, you've only got ONE orphan so far this week! :o

Though if KS comes in with 17 orphans, (just to defend his honor) his ballot is toast! :P
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 07, 2011, 09:20:03 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 07, 2011, 07:59:35 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 07, 2011, 07:45:05 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 07, 2011, 05:09:02 PM
7 ballots in and tallied so far.  What is most striking is that those 7 voters have only named 30 teams, and 4 are orphans so far.  Amazing that almost all the votes have gone to only 26 teams!  (Of course, the balloting so far does not included 'Mr. Outlier')


Wait, so am I still Captain Outlier or have I just been stripped of any outlier title altogether?

I've still got Anderson in - even after a loss.  That has to count for something.

Notice I didn't say "Captain Outlier" - the Dean of Knightslappy U has definitely usurped your preeminent 'outlier' credentials the last few weeks! ;D  We'll await the end of the season (at least) to adjudicate the title, but geez, you've only got ONE orphan so far this week! :o

Though if KS comes in with 17 orphans, (just to defend his honor) his ballot is toast! :P

My ballots have all been perfectly justifiable.  :)

To quote one of the most excellent movies ever:

Who are you?

I'm me.

And what are you not?

A sheep.

Right. And what does a sheep go?

Baaaaa
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 07, 2011, 09:29:35 PM
Now, KS, scroll back a few pages and you'll see I vociferously defended outliers.

It's just that 'orphans' add an intolerable ;) burden to my workload.  I have to type in a whole new college (AND statline) because of one freakin' voter! :P

As a typist, I LIKE 'sheep'! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 07, 2011, 09:34:54 PM
Mines in. We'll see if Mr. Ypsi explodes from over-exertion.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: ziggy on February 07, 2011, 09:51:23 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 07, 2011, 09:20:03 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 07, 2011, 07:59:35 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 07, 2011, 07:45:05 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 07, 2011, 05:09:02 PM
7 ballots in and tallied so far.  What is most striking is that those 7 voters have only named 30 teams, and 4 are orphans so far.  Amazing that almost all the votes have gone to only 26 teams!  (Of course, the balloting so far does not included 'Mr. Outlier')


Wait, so am I still Captain Outlier or have I just been stripped of any outlier title altogether?

I've still got Anderson in - even after a loss.  That has to count for something.

Notice I didn't say "Captain Outlier" - the Dean of Knightslappy U has definitely usurped your preeminent 'outlier' credentials the last few weeks! ;D  We'll await the end of the season (at least) to adjudicate the title, but geez, you've only got ONE orphan so far this week! :o

Though if KS comes in with 17 orphans, (just to defend his honor) his ballot is toast! :P

My ballots have all been perfectly justifiable.  :)

To quote one of the most excellent movies ever:

Who are you?

I'm me.

And what are you not?

A sheep.

Right. And what does a sheep go?

Baaaaa

Which just leads to more questions:

Can I play computer games?

Couldn't you just murder a Big Mac?

You go 'round his place after school?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 07, 2011, 09:52:39 PM
Sorry, you only added three 'orphans' (and 'adopted' one)!  You did give the first non-vote to three teams that had previously been voted in by everyone. :P

You are far surpassing Hoops Fan as this year's "Mr." or "Captain" Outlier. ::)

We're already up to ten voters - if Tuesday's returns are up to snuff, we may set a record for this year.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 08, 2011, 04:43:23 PM
When we reached 11 ballots before the end of Monday, I had huge hopes of a new record number.  Those hopes are beginning to fade as, 17 hours later, we are still at 11.  C'mon guys, let's hit 15 or more!!

As always, I am willing to hold up presenting the results if a voter needs more time, but you gotta let me know! ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 08, 2011, 06:38:01 PM
30 minutes 'til the listed deadline, and still just 11.  Any ballots in the pipeline (and, again, I'll hold off if an extra hour or two would produce ballots - just let me know)?

Greg?  sac?  Bueller?  anyone?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 08, 2011, 07:51:33 PM
Never heard a peep, so here we go with a pretty decent 11 ballots (though disappointing under the circumstances):

1.  Whitworth     275 (unanimous)
2.  Williams         259 (2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,3,4,4)
3.  Amherst         242 (2,2,3,3,3,4,4,4,5,6,8)
4.  Wooster         233 (3,3,4,4,5,5,5,5,5,6,8)
5.  VaWes           223 (2,3,3,4,5,6,6,7,8,8,11)
6.  Midd               222 (3,3,4,4,7,7,7,7,7,7,8)
7.  Augie             216 (3,4,5,6,6,6,7,7,8,9,9)
8.  UWSP            210 (5,5,5,6,6,7,8,8,8,8,10)
9.  St. Thomas    182 (6,7,8,9,10,10,10,10,11,11,12)
10. Randy Mac    174 (9,9,9,9,10,10,10,10,11,11,14)
11. UWRF            170 (6,9,9,9,10,11,11,11,12,13,15)
12. WPI               141 (9,12,12,12,12,13,13,14,15,16,17)
13. W. Conn.       138 (10,11,12,12,13,13,13,14,15,16,17)
14. Wabash         122 (12,13,13,14,14,14,15,15,16,17,21)
15. EMU               115 (11,11,13,13,14,15,15,17,18,18,-)
16. St. Mary's      111 (13,14,14,15,16,16,16,16,16,18,21)
17. St. Norbs        88 (12,14,15,15,18,18,18,19,20,23,-)
18. Marietta         73 (17,17,17,18,19,19,20,20,20,22,24)
t19 Chapman       70 (16,17,18,19,20,20,21,21,21,21,22)
t19 Ferrum           70 (14,16,17,18,18,19,19,20,24,25,-)
21. Ramapo          52 (16,17,17,20,21,22,23,23,23,-,-)
22. Rochester       40 (12,18,21,22,23,24,24,25,25,-,-)
t23 F & M              27 (19,21,22,22,23,23,25,-,-,-,-)
t23 IWU                27 (17,19,19,24,25,25,-,-,-,-,-)
25. Birmingham-S  18 (15,22,23)

26. Witt                 17 (21,22,23,24,24,25)
27. Concordia        15 (19,22,24,25,25)
28. Hope                12 (20,20)
29. Centre              11 (20,21)
t30 Becker               4 (24,25,25)
t30 Anderson           4 (22)
t30 Oswego St.        4 (22)
t33 Elizabethtown    3 (23)
t33 UMHB                 3 (23)
t35 Hanover             2 (24)
t35 UT-Dallas           2 (24)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 08, 2011, 09:18:20 PM
Didn't check through ALL the records, but this might be the first time ever we have had ZERO #25 orphans (the six orphans were evenly distributed among #22, #23, and #24 votes)!

For the moment, we have a unanimous #1.  (I'm curious if breaking that up will require a Whitworth loss, or if a sweep by one of the big 3 in NESCAC will vault a team to the top.)  EMU fell out of our 'solid top 12' a couple of weeks ago, but we now have a fairly 'solid top 11' - 116 of 121 possible top eleven votes went to the same eleven teams.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 08, 2011, 10:11:54 PM
The ink is barely dry on the posters' poll and Western Connecticut goes down 86-75 to Rhode Island.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 08, 2011, 10:35:16 PM
Quote from: magicman on February 08, 2011, 10:11:54 PM
The ink is barely dry on the posters' poll and Western Connecticut goes down 86-75 to Rhode Island.

Can't say I'm disappointed.  I was a bit queasy having them above Wabash and EMU on my ballot, but 19-2 was hard to argue against. ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 09, 2011, 05:07:04 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 08, 2011, 10:35:16 PM
Quote from: magicman on February 08, 2011, 10:11:54 PM
The ink is barely dry on the posters' poll and Western Connecticut goes down 86-75 to Rhode Island.

Can't say I'm disappointed.  I was a bit queasy having them above Wabash and EMU on my ballot, but 19-2 was hard to argue against. ;)
I wouldn't penalize them too much for this loss. Rhode Island is  a decent team. They have a lot of parts back from last year's sweet 16 team. Watched them on video over the weekend when they beat Keene St. and was not surprised to see them win Tuesday night against Western Connecticut. They could conceivably win the automatic bid out of solid Little East Conference again this year.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 09, 2011, 05:14:40 AM
This is the time of the season when I see so many teams between 10-12 and 25 that have "floated up" in the rankings.  You are now in conference play where anything can happen, depending on the jostling that happens for tourney seedings.

That was a must win game for RIC, and next Tuesday, ECSU can clinch a share of first place with a win over WCSU.

This season, I don't think that there is a dime's worth of difference between #13 and #30.

I was not prepared to drop Centre from the ranks, just because rival DePauw beat them on Sunday.  DePauw had to win for any tourney hopes of a good seed.  BSC is ineligible for the SCAC and NCAA tourney so I am not including them in my ballot.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 09, 2011, 11:12:26 AM

Western Connecticut really hasn't played a great schedule this year.  I had them up mostly on their carryover from last year (and by "up" I'm not talking all that high).

RIC is solid, but much better at home.  They won this game on the road.  Quite honestly, it probably says more about RIC coming on late than it does about WCONN faltering.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 13, 2011, 05:49:23 PM

Well, I've got my ballot all set - of course Ferrum is now in OT with Christopher Newport, so I may have to make a change or two.  I really hope they pull it out.  CNU is a solid squad - OT with them is not going change my impression much, but a loss does have to factor in, especially with how many teams suffered losses this week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 13, 2011, 07:56:28 PM

I'm in.  I basically wiped out my ballot after #15 and started over with about 40 teams for those last 10 spots.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 14, 2011, 12:23:11 AM
This madness will end soon...
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 14, 2011, 12:28:48 AM
Tomorrow night for mine.  It will take me that long to figure out who did not lose last week.  +1 to Darryl Nester for his considerable help.   ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 14, 2011, 12:35:04 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 14, 2011, 12:28:48 AM
Tomorrow night for mine.  It will take me that long to figure out who did not lose last week.  +1 to Darryl Nester for his considerable help.   ;)


You did have me worried, Ralph.  More often than not you are the FIRST one in! ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 14, 2011, 02:30:12 AM
I am in and Point keeps leap froggin' and I suspect EMU is back in the top solid group.  EMU has had my respect for at least 11 months.

I wanted to put Whitman in there but then they play Whitworth Tuesday.  A battle of the Whits.  Hopefully the superior and undefeated Whit will prevail! ;)   :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 14, 2011, 02:36:32 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 14, 2011, 02:30:12 AM
I am in and Point keeps leap froggin' and I suspect EMU is back in the top solid group.  EMU has had my respect for at least 11 months.

I wanted to put Whitman in there but then they play Whitworth Tuesday.  A battle of the Whits.  Hopefully the superior and undefeated Whit will prevail! ;)   :D

I've been to both Spokane and Walla Walla. Actually liked both places, so I have no dog in the hunt.

I'm sure, since tensions are high, that they'd have to play in Ritzville to keep those Western Washingtonians under control...
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 14, 2011, 09:29:11 PM
I surely am glad that the playoffs are only three weeks away, and the bids will have been announced by 2 weeks from today.

I think that only 13 of the Top 25 will be in the Sweet 16, and four of those are the NESCAC-3 and WPI.

Mine is in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 14, 2011, 09:56:29 PM
Mine will be in later tonight.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 15, 2011, 10:42:24 AM
Nine ballots in, and some VERY close races!

I hope more are in the works.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 15, 2011, 05:52:16 PM
I'll have one for you a bit later.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pbrooks3 on February 15, 2011, 06:11:07 PM
If I can squeeze in the time later tonight, I'll get my poll in, too.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 15, 2011, 06:56:42 PM
I also had a PM request for an extra couple of hours.

Here's hoping everyone can come through and we have AT LEAST 12 ballots by later tonight! ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 15, 2011, 08:30:03 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 08, 2011, 07:51:33 PM
29. Center              11 (20,21)

Good lord I can't believe no one caught this, maybe its just one of my pet peeves.

Centre

:)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 15, 2011, 08:33:01 PM
For the first time this year I'm in, so I probably definitly have 2 or 3 outliers since I started from scratch.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 15, 2011, 09:05:48 PM
Quote from: sac on February 15, 2011, 08:30:03 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 08, 2011, 07:51:33 PM
29. Center              11 (20,21)

Good lord I can't believe no one caught this, maybe its just one of my pet peeves.

Centre

:)

One of my pet peeves, too - thanks for catching that (now corrected).

Quote from: sac on February 15, 2011, 08:33:01 PM
For the first time this year I'm in, so I probably definitly have 2 or 3 outliers since I started from scratch.

For some of your picks you MAY grab the 'Mr. Outlier' title you sought, but not for 'orphans' - you created one, but prevented 3! :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 15, 2011, 10:44:17 PM
Mine is in finally with my second attempt. D3 got me good with that maintainance thing they were doing for "just a minute". :P
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 15, 2011, 11:16:53 PM
Sorry -- patching the software is something I have to start taking more seriously, so I had to do it.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 15, 2011, 11:19:12 PM
Based on earlier posts, I'm still hoping for at least one more ballot (we HAVE now hit 12, due to a submission by someone who did not post earlier), but I am exhausted and falling asleep.  Poll will be up tomorrow (hopefully with 13+ ballots!).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 15, 2011, 11:38:57 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 15, 2011, 11:19:12 PM
Based on earlier posts, I'm still hoping for at least one more ballot (we HAVE now hit 12, due to a submission by someone who did not post earlier), but I am exhausted and falling asleep.  Poll will be up tomorrow (hopefully with 13+ ballots!).

WIMP. :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 15, 2011, 11:42:37 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 15, 2011, 11:16:53 PM
Sorry -- patching the software is something I have to start taking more seriously, so I had to do it.
You caught me just as I was sending my Poll to Mr. Ypsi by PM. I thought for sure when you came back on it would show me that it made it to him but no such luck. Isn't there a siren you can sound to let us know it's coming. :D ???
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 15, 2011, 11:44:17 PM
Quote from: magicman on February 15, 2011, 11:38:57 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 15, 2011, 11:19:12 PM
Based on earlier posts, I'm still hoping for at least one more ballot (we HAVE now hit 12, due to a submission by someone who did not post earlier), but I am exhausted and falling asleep.  Poll will be up tomorrow (hopefully with 13+ ballots!).

WIMP. :D

Actually, I'm still here so far, but don't think I'll last as long as I'd be willing to hold out for the promised ballot!  Perhaps I'm just too much of an optimist, but I WANT that extra ballot! :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 16, 2011, 12:21:34 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 15, 2011, 11:44:17 PM
Quote from: magicman on February 15, 2011, 11:38:57 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 15, 2011, 11:19:12 PM
Based on earlier posts, I'm still hoping for at least one more ballot (we HAVE now hit 12, due to a submission by someone who did not post earlier), but I am exhausted and falling asleep.  Poll will be up tomorrow (hopefully with 13+ ballots!).

WIMP. :D

Actually, I'm still here so far, but don't think I'll last as long as I'd be willing to hold out for the promised ballot!  Perhaps I'm just too much of an optimist, but I WANT that extra ballot! :D

I bet it never shows up.            (There that should guarantee that it shows up. ;D)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 16, 2011, 09:07:18 AM

So... it's tomorrow now.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 16, 2011, 10:52:37 AM
Alas, it didn't show up. :(  But 12 isn't too bad.

1.  Whitworth        298 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2)
2.  Williams            289 (1,1,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,3)
3.  UWSP               263 (2,3,3,4,4,4,4,4,4,5,5,7)
4.  Midd                 259 (3,3,3,4,4,5,5,5,5,5,5,6)
5.  Augie                252 (3,3,3,3,3,4,4,4,5,6,9,13)
6.  Amherst            234 (5,5,6,6,6,6,7,7,7,7,8,8)
7.  Wooster           232 (3,5,6,6,6,7,7,7,7,8,8,10)
8.  VaWes             211 (6,6,7,7,8,8,8,8,10,10,11,14)
9.  Randy Mac       196 (4,8,8,9,9,10,10,10,10,11,13,14)
10 UWRF               189 (7,8,9,9,9,10,11,11,11,12,12,14)
11 St. Thomas       181 (6,8,9,9,10,11,12,12,12,13,14,15)
12 WPI                  177 (9,9,10,10,10,11,11,12,13,13,13,14)
13 EMU                  150 (9,11,11,12,12,13,13,13,13,13,16,-)
14 Marietta            124 (11,12,12,14,14,15,15,15,17,18,19,-)
15 Witt                    83 (14,14,17,17,18,19,19,20,20,22,23,-)
16 St. Mary's           81 (15,16,17,18,18,19,19,20,20,22,22,25)
17 Rochester          77 (11,16,17,18,18,19,20,21,21,22,-,-)
18 Wabash             75 (12,14,16,17,18,19,20,21,23,25,-,-)
19 Chapman           73 (15,15,15,15,20,21,21,21,21,23,-,-)
20 F & M                 67 (13,16,17,17,18,20,22,22,22,-,-,-)
21 Hope                  53 (15,15,16,16,18,23,-,-,-,-,-,-)
22 W. Conn            52 (12,14,16,20,20,24,24,-,-,-,-,-)
t23 Ferrum             46 (14,17,17,22,23,23,24,24,24,-,-,-)
t23 St. Norbs          46 (9,16,21,21,23,23,2425,-,-,-,-)
t23 Centre              46 (16,16,17,19,20,22,-,-,-,-,-,-)

26 Concordia           31 (18,18,21,22,24,24,25,25)
27 Ramapo             26 (16,19,19,24)
t28 L & C                14 (19,19)
t28 Oswego            14 (18,20)
30 Becker                13 (17,23,25)
31 Carleton             12 (15,25)
32 Emory                 11 22,23,24,25,25)
33 UT-Dallas              9 (21,22)
34 IWU                      8 (21,24,25)
35 Hanover               4 (23,25)
36 Anderson             3 (23)
37 RIC                       2 (24)
38 Ithaca                   1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 16, 2011, 11:36:10 AM

Wait a minute.  I was the only Anderson voter last week.  They lost again this week, I dropped them from my ballot, but someone else picked them up?

That's odd.





...and yes, I put Ithaca back in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 16, 2011, 03:26:57 PM
Week 3 Regional Rankings are out: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2011/02/16/ncaa-2011-regional-rankings-week-3/
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 16, 2011, 05:38:11 PM
Which team has the longest current winning streak in the country, (tied with WPI and Salem State with 13 in a row) has a 20-3 record, and the 3 losses are by a total of of 7 points. Oh, one more thing, they're not in the top 25 and haven't been all year long. But they have beaten 2 teams that have been ranked, a total of 3 times.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 16, 2011, 05:42:15 PM
 I had IWU at #25 and left off Rochester.

Let me see how Rochester finishes on the road, at CMU, at Case and at Emory.




I also had Ramapo instead of Hope.  However, putting Rochester and Hope in the bottom of my poll does not change any of the positions on the poll.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 16, 2011, 07:15:33 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 16, 2011, 05:42:15 PM
I had IWU at #25 and left off Rochester.

Let me see how Rochester finishes on the road, at CMU, at Case and at Emory.

I've had Rochester for the past 3 weeks, but then I'm probably showing my East Coast bias. But even if the UAA is down a little this year, it's still better than some of the other conferences whose teams have received or are getting top 25 recognition. And the team I wrote about in my previous post I've had in the poll for the past 4 weeks but no one has noted them until this week when someone else gave them a mention.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 19, 2011, 10:21:17 PM
I feel somewhat vindicated for not having Augustana in the top 10.  It was really the only spot I was a little uneasy about.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 19, 2011, 11:15:20 PM

I've been creeping Augie up - just because they keep surviving and the conference is tough, even in a down year.  I haven't been impressed by their resume.  I'm glad to be able to bump them down a bit.

I'm toying with voting North Central #25 though.  Rough 2010, but 2011 has been stellar.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 19, 2011, 11:17:44 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 19, 2011, 11:15:20 PM

I've been creeping Augie up - just because they keep surviving and the conference is tough, even in a down year.  I haven't been impressed by their resume.  I'm glad to be able to bump them down a bit.

I'm toying with voting North Central #25 though.  Rough 2010, but 2011 has been stellar.
Imagine, a Top 25 without a worthy UAA or CCIW team.

Where would Rochester and the CCIW #1 finish in their conferences in previous years?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 19, 2011, 11:21:33 PM
I had Augie #9. I might keep them there.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 19, 2011, 11:27:01 PM
This year's Augie team would be solid in any CCIW season, Ralph. I'm not saying that the 2010-11 edition of the Doggies would win any random CCIW season into which they were parachuted -- that's certainly not the case -- but they'd acquit themselves well. It's a very good team. I have no hesitation in saying that they're worthy of the Top Ten.

I realize that some of you outside the CCIW's precincts are looking for an excuse to penalize Augie, and, seeing as how the Rock Islanders have just lost to 15-10 North Central in what's been a down year for the league anyway, you feel as though you now have that excuse. That's fine. But consider this: Augie lost by four on North Central's floor, and at least Hoops Fan is beginning to catch on to the fact that this Cardinals squad is not just any 15-10 team. Their post-holidays turnaround has been nothing short of miraculous, and they're going to be a very tough out if they somehow get into the D3 tourney.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 19, 2011, 11:30:20 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 19, 2011, 11:21:33 PM
I had Augie #9. I might keep them there.
It was Senior Night at North Central.


Augustana    11-2    11-3
North Central (Ill.)    11-3    
Wheaton (Ill.)    9-5    
Carthage    9-5    
Illinois Wesleyan    8-5  9-5

If IWU beats Augie on Tuesday night, we have co-champs and a 3-way tie for 3rd/4th.

Who gets left out?  
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 19, 2011, 11:32:01 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 19, 2011, 11:27:01 PM
This year's Augie team would be solid in any CCIW season, Ralph. I'm not saying that the 2010-11 edition of the Doggies would win any random CCIW season into which they were parachuted -- that's certainly not the case -- but they'd acquit themselves well. It's a very good team. I have no hesitation in saying that they're worthy of the Top Ten.

I realize that some of you outside the CCIW's precincts are looking for an excuse to penalize Augie, and, seeing as how the Rock Islanders have just lost to 15-10 North Central in what's been a down year for the league anyway, you feel as though you now have that excuse. That's fine. But consider this: Augie lost by four on North Central's floor, and at least Hoops Fan is beginning to catch on to the fact that this Cardinals squad is not just any 15-10 team. Their post-holidays turnaround has been nothing short of miraculous, and they're going to be a very tough out if they somehow get into the D3 tourney.
What's the odds on each of top 5 teams from CCIW getting the AQ?  
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 19, 2011, 11:38:06 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 19, 2011, 11:27:01 PM
This year's Augie team would be solid in any CCIW season, Ralph. I'm not saying that the 2010-11 edition of the Doggies would win any random CCIW season into which they were parachuted -- that's certainly not the case -- but they'd acquit themselves well. It's a very good team. I have no hesitation in saying that they're worthy of the Top Ten.

I realize that some of you outside the CCIW's precincts are looking for an excuse to penalize Augie, and, seeing as how the Rock Islanders have just lost to 15-10 North Central in what's been a down year for the league anyway, you feel as though you now have that excuse. That's fine. But consider this: Augie lost by four on North Central's floor, and at least Hoops Fan is beginning to catch on to the fact that this Cardinals squad is not just any 15-10 team. Their post-holidays turnaround has been nothing short of miraculous, and they're going to be a very tough out if they somehow get into the D3 tourney.

I doubt they drop or drop much the way I'm ranking teams.  They are a convincing defensive team, but compared to others I have ranked ahead their offense is what is holding them back.

Didn't look at North Central last week but will probably look at them this week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 19, 2011, 11:41:12 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 19, 2011, 11:30:20 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 19, 2011, 11:21:33 PM
I had Augie #9. I might keep them there.
It was Senior Night at North Central.


Augustana    11-2    11-3
North Central (Ill.)    11-3    
Wheaton (Ill.)    9-5    
Carthage    9-5    
Illinois Wesleyan    8-5  9-5

If IWU beats Augie on Tuesday night, we have co-champs and a 3-way tie for 3rd/4th.

Who gets left out?  

If there's a three-way tie for third, Carthage is the odd man out. The Red Men were swept by Wheaton, while Carthage and IWU split and Wheaton and IWU split.

However, if that scenario does occur, Illinois Wesleyan gets the third seed and Wheaton gets the fourth seed. Why? Because IWU split with #1 North Central, while Wheaton got swept by the Cards.

So, for those of you who keep track of rooting interests, both Carthage and Wheaton will be cheering for Augustana on Tuesday night.

Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 19, 2011, 11:32:01 PM
What's the odds on each of top 5 teams from CCIW getting the AQ?  

It really depends upon where the tourney is held. Home-court advantage is huge. An Augustana loss to Illinois Wesleyan on Tuesday means that North Central would host the tournament. That's a long busride for Augustana, and a huge psychological loss as well, considering that Augie appeared to have sole possession of the CCIW crown (and the hosting privileges) pretty much in the bag throughout most of January and February.

Quote from: sac on February 19, 2011, 11:38:06 PMI doubt they drop or drop much the way I'm ranking teams.  They are a convincing defensive team, but compared to others I have ranked ahead their offense is what is holding them back.

Yeah, but you could use an eraser and then pencil in the year and use that comment for any Augustana team of the Grey Giovanine era. The big (literally) difference this year is that Augie is so freakin' huge that it's extremely hard to compete with that team on the boards.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 19, 2011, 11:45:51 PM
Thanks, Gregory.  That is what suspected, but I did not find the tie-breakers on the CCIW web site at first glance.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 19, 2011, 11:48:36 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 19, 2011, 11:45:51 PM
Thanks, Gregory.  That is what suspected, but I did not find the tie-breakers on the CCIW web site at first glance.

You might want to read it again. I brain-cramped on who the #1 seed would be, even though the point regarding IWU being #3 and Wheaton being #4 still stands. ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 19, 2011, 11:53:26 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 19, 2011, 11:48:36 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 19, 2011, 11:45:51 PM
Thanks, Gregory.  That is what suspected, but I did not find the tie-breakers on the CCIW web site at first glance.

You might want to read it again. I brain-cramped on who the #1 seed would be, even though the point regarding IWU being #3 and Wheaton being #4 still stands. ;)
I think that my brain stopped when I saw that Carthage was "odd-man-out".
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 20, 2011, 12:13:01 AM
Help me out here.


From the CCIW website:

QuoteMen's & Women's Basketball
Seeding will be determined by regular season finish. Ties are broken by the following:

1. Head-to-head competition.
2. Record against team(s) above the tie beginning with the highest ranked team.
3. Record vs. team or teams in 3 rd place. If still tied, go to the next place for determination, et cetera.
4. Road record against conference schools.
5. Record in their seven conference games.
6. The point spread of the tied teams' head-to head competition.
7. Coin toss

If Augie were to lose to IWU, Augustana and NCC would be tied through #4.  What does number five even mean?

They'd have an identical record, with losses against each other and IWU and Carthage.  The road/home are the same.  I know Augie wins #6 - they're +12.  So what is #5?  and how could NCC possibly win it?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Titan Q on February 20, 2011, 12:21:06 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 20, 2011, 12:13:01 AM
5. Record in their seven conference games.

This should say "Record in their last seven conference games."  And this is where NCC would win (if IWU beats Augie).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 20, 2011, 02:43:55 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on February 20, 2011, 12:21:06 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 20, 2011, 12:13:01 AM
5. Record in their seven conference games.

This should say "Record in their last seven conference games."  And this is where NCC would win (if IWU beats Augie).

Gotcha - that makes sense.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 20, 2011, 05:36:13 PM

I'm in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 20, 2011, 10:58:30 PM
In but not proud...or maybe I am proud of it.  ???
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 20, 2011, 11:36:01 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 20, 2011, 10:58:30 PM
In but not proud...or maybe I am proud of it.  ???

Currently you have only one orphan; Hoops Fan and I each currently have two.  Whether or not a matter of pride is up to the individual poster! :D

Aside from a school in Ohio and one in Connecticut, you align more with me than HF.  As a matter of pride, that is again something the poster must decide! ;D

For the mathematically impaired, we have only 3 ballots so far.  Below average for a Sunday night, but not yet worrisome.  (Especially since there is a 'monster' game Tuesday night [Augie @ IWU] which is likely to delay the usual publication of the PP! ;))
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 21, 2011, 01:12:59 AM
Mine is in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nescac1 on February 21, 2011, 08:05:54 AM
I'm in.  I felt like the top ten was pretty straightforward, but that 11-25 were a total crapshoot.  I have a feeling that there will be a strong consensus top 10, followed by votes all over the map. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 21, 2011, 06:33:49 PM
Quote from: nescac1 on February 21, 2011, 08:05:54 AM
I'm in.  I felt like the top ten was pretty straightforward, but that 11-25 were a total crapshoot.  I have a feeling that there will be a strong consensus top 10, followed by votes all over the map. 

You're close, but after 6 ballots we have a unanimous top ELEVEN.  After that, it's pretty chaotic (though as of now, only 4 orphans).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 22, 2011, 03:58:32 PM
We've been at nine ballots for way too long now!  Let's at least hit a dozen.

You've got extra time this week, since I'll be glued to the Augie @ IWU game!  Please submit ballots by midnight EST.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 22, 2011, 08:19:10 PM
We're now at 10 - not enough!  Greg? Kilted Bryan? pbrooks? Point Special? (I won't even beg for Old School who just became a daddy! :D) Bueller? Anyone?

Midnight EST, but if anyone will promise to have one after that, I'm flexible.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 22, 2011, 08:24:09 PM
I'll probably put one together after tonight's games are done. (Of course, I won't take said games into consideration, as per the rules.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pbrooks3 on February 22, 2011, 08:50:38 PM
Had time & put my 25 Poll in for this week. A great week of basketball is cranking up!

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: kiltedbryan on February 22, 2011, 09:14:35 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 22, 2011, 08:19:10 PM
We're now at 10 - not enough!  Greg? Kilted Bryan? pbrooks? Point Special? (I won't even beg for Old School who just became a daddy! :D) Bueller? Anyone?

Midnight EST, but if anyone will promise to have one after that, I'm flexible.

I think I'll get one in by the midnight deadline--also busy watching other games right now!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 22, 2011, 09:16:37 PM
Quote from: kiltedbryan on February 22, 2011, 09:14:35 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 22, 2011, 08:19:10 PM
We're now at 10 - not enough!  Greg? Kilted Bryan? pbrooks? Point Special? (I won't even beg for Old School who just became a daddy! :D) Bueller? Anyone?

Midnight EST, but if anyone will promise to have one after that, I'm flexible.

I think I'll get one in by the midnight deadline--also busy watching other games right now!
A karma point awaits your successful submission of a Posters' Poll.

(pbrooks just got one.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 22, 2011, 09:27:22 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 22, 2011, 09:16:37 PM
Quote from: kiltedbryan on February 22, 2011, 09:14:35 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 22, 2011, 08:19:10 PM
We're now at 10 - not enough!  Greg? Kilted Bryan? pbrooks? Point Special? (I won't even beg for Old School who just became a daddy! :D) Bueller? Anyone?

Midnight EST, but if anyone will promise to have one after that, I'm flexible.

I think I'll get one in by the midnight deadline--also busy watching other games right now!
A karma point awaits your successful submission of a Posters' Poll.

(pbrooks just got one.)

Well, gee, do I get one for each one I tally?? ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 22, 2011, 09:29:12 PM
You have gotten one per week!   ;)

I figure the fame and respect that our fellow posters bestow upon you has been incredible!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 23, 2011, 01:16:27 AM
POSTERS' POLL, 2-20-11:

1.  Williams         299 (unanimous, minus 1 second-place vote)
2.  Whitworth     282 (1,2,2,2,2,2,2,3,3,3,4,4)
3.  Midd              273 (2,2,2,3,3,3,3,3,3,4,5,6)
4.  UWSP            269 (2,2,3,3,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,5)
5.  Woo              242 (5,5,5,5,5,5,6,6,6,7,7,7)
6.  Amherst        237 (5,5,5,6,6,6,7,7,7,7,7,7)
7.  Augie             230 (3,4,5,6,6,6,6,7,7,8,9,15)
8.  Randy Mac     209 (4,8,8,8,9,9,9,9,9,9,10,11)
9.  St. Thomas    206 (6,8,8,8,8,8,8,9,10,11,11,11)
10 VaWes          190 (8,8,9,10,10,10,10,10,11,11,11,14)
11 EMU              177 (7,9,9,10,10,10,10,11,11,11,12,25)
12 WPI              142 (11,12,12,12,13,13,14,14,14,16,17,22)
13 Wabash        124 (10,12,13,13,14,15,15,15,16,19,20,-)
14 UWRF            123 (11,13,13,13,15,15,16,16,18,19,20,20)
15 Marietta         106 (12,12,13,15,15,15,16,16,19,21,-,-)
16 Rochester      103 (13,13,13,14,14,17,18,18,19,19,25,-)
17 St. Mary's       101 (14,14,14,16,16,17,17,18,20,20,21,24)
18 Chapman         94 (12,12,12,17,18,18,19,19,20,21,24,-)
19 W. Conn           74 (12,12,14,16,18,19,21,22,-,-,-,-)
20 St. Norbs          61 (9,17,17,20,21,22,22,22,23, -,-,-)
21 F & M                50 (15,18,20,20,21,21,21,22,-,-,-,-)
22 Concordia         48 (17,18,18,20,22,22,22,23,25,25,-,-)
23 Ramapo            39 (13,15,18,23,24,24,-,-,-,-,-,-)
24 Ferrum              32 (14,17,20,23,24,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)
t25 Oswego           28 (17,19,22,22,23,25,-,-,-,-,-,-)
t25 UT-Dallas         28 (15,21,23,23,24,24,24,-,-,-,-,-)

27 Witt                   26 (19,19,21,21,24)
28 Hope                 24 (16,17,22,25)
29 Becker               20 (18,23,23,23,24,25)
30 Centre               18 (17,21,23,25)
31 Ithaca                13 (16,23)
32 Carleton            10 (16)
t33 Manchester       7 (20,25)
t33 L & C                 7 (19)
t35 NCC                  2 (25,25)
t35 Anderson          2 (24)
t35 Kean                 2 (24)
38 La Roche            1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 23, 2011, 01:42:41 PM
Gotta love the #25 vote for EMU.

Aug gets a 3-15 spread????

St. Norbert #9?

Super outlier in Carleton!

I wonder who kept Whitworth at #1?? :o :-X ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 23, 2011, 02:06:15 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 23, 2011, 01:42:41 PM
Gotta love the #25 vote for EMU.

Aug gets a 3-15 spread????

St. Norbert #9?

Super outlier in Carleton!

I wonder who kepy Whitworth at #1?? :o :-X ;D
It must be a matter of conflict of interest and failure of a voter to recuse themselves from emotionally over-estimating a team's competence and prowess.   :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 23, 2011, 10:29:00 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 23, 2011, 02:06:15 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 23, 2011, 01:42:41 PM
Gotta love the #25 vote for EMU.

Aug gets a 3-15 spread????

St. Norbert #9?

Super outlier in Carleton!

I wonder who kepy Whitworth at #1?? :o :-X ;D
It must be a matter of conflict of interest and failure of a voter to recuse themselves from emotionally over-estimating a team's competence and prowess.   :D
Or maybe 24-1 is better than 23-1??? :P  :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 23, 2011, 11:00:49 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 23, 2011, 10:29:00 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 23, 2011, 02:06:15 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 23, 2011, 01:42:41 PM
Gotta love the #25 vote for EMU.

Aug gets a 3-15 spread????

St. Norbert #9?

Super outlier in Carleton!

I wonder who kepy Whitworth at #1?? :o :-X ;D
It must be a matter of conflict of interest and failure of a voter to recuse themselves from emotionally over-estimating a team's competence and prowess.   :D
Or maybe 24-1 is better than 23-1??? :P  :D

Actually, Williams was 24-1 by the deadline for games considered.

Losing your only game of the season to a team then undefeated (now 23-2), while missing your best player, then beating them in the rematch, COULD be considered better than losing your only game of the year to a team who is now 18-7.  Just sayin'! 8-)

NOT a knock - I think a legitimate case for #1 could be made for just about any of the top 11 teams - some cases stronger than others! :D

As to the other outliers: from a newbie voter, I might have questioned any or all of them.  The EMU vote was from a valued voter who, for whatever reason, does not think much of EMU - sh*t happens. :D  The other three outliers were all from the same voter whose opinions I greatly value (don't always agree with them, but value nonetheless :-X).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 23, 2011, 11:04:24 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 23, 2011, 10:29:00 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 23, 2011, 02:06:15 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 23, 2011, 01:42:41 PM
Gotta love the #25 vote for EMU.

Aug gets a 3-15 spread????

St. Norbert #9?

Super outlier in Carleton!

I wonder who kepy Whitworth at #1?? :o :-X ;D
It must be a matter of conflict of interest and failure of a voter to recuse themselves from emotionally over-estimating a team's competence and prowess.   :D
Or maybe 24-1 is better than 23-1??? :P  :D
Williams (http://www.d3hoops.com/teams/Williams/men/2010-11/index) 24-1 (22-1 in-region) thru 19Feb11

Whitworth (http://www.d3hoops.com/teams/Whitworth/men/2010-11/index) was 24-1 (in-region 24-1, too) thru 19Feb11

Pirates have a better in-region W/L.   ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 23, 2011, 11:09:40 PM
I had 24 of 25.  (I had Witt instead of Ferrum and not Oswego.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: toad22 on February 23, 2011, 11:25:45 PM
As a Williams fan, I guess the thinking of the voters is that it is Williams' turn to be number one. There really isn't much to distinguish the top 6-12 teams. Even in the NESCAC, nobody knows who the best team is. Amherst has lost to Williams and Middlebury, both away. Midd lost to Williams, away. Williams lost to Amherst, away. I heard Dave Hixon from Amherst on Hoopsville the other night say that he thinks that all three of these teams are final 4 type teams. I agree. I would think that there are probably at least another 5-10 teams that are also final 4 teams. I hope I get to see Whitworth play this year. They could be the best this year. They haven't even been tested, except in their brain-dead performance at Whitman.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 27, 2011, 01:53:48 PM
Are we doing a poll tonight?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 27, 2011, 02:08:41 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 27, 2011, 01:53:48 PM
Are we doing a poll tonight?


Yes (or at least by Tuesday evening ;)).

Then no new poll 'til after the FF.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 27, 2011, 02:11:38 PM
Wasn't sure if we wanted it out before the field is announced. I think the field (committee) will sway some votes.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 27, 2011, 02:13:30 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 27, 2011, 02:11:38 PM
Wasn't sure if we wanted it out before the field is announced. I think the field (committee) will sway some votes.

Based on past years, I doubt it.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2011, 08:16:39 PM

I'm in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 27, 2011, 09:21:18 PM
This could be a really interesting week at the top - 3 ballots in; 3 different #1s! :o ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 28, 2011, 04:37:16 AM
Mine's in. And I know I broke the tie and Middlebury now has 2 #1 votes. ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 28, 2011, 09:47:44 AM
I'm in. Mark Whitworth down for a #1.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 28, 2011, 12:31:24 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 28, 2011, 09:47:44 AM
I'm in. Mark Whitworth down for a #1.
Ditto, and Point gets my deuce  :o  ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: frodotwo on February 28, 2011, 02:45:46 PM
IN
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 28, 2011, 03:27:47 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 28, 2011, 09:47:44 AM
I'm in. Mark Whitworth down for a #1.
Please introduce me to this Mr. Mark Whitworth please.  :P
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 28, 2011, 06:07:55 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 28, 2011, 03:27:47 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 28, 2011, 09:47:44 AM
I'm in. Mark Whitworth down for a #1.
Please introduce me to this Mr. Mark Whitworth please.  :P

As soon as I find Mr. Bob Dobolina...
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pbrooks3 on February 28, 2011, 09:35:47 PM
My poll is in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 28, 2011, 11:36:54 PM
Mine is in.  

I think that the conference tourneys did a good job of weeding out some of the weaker teams, teams that we had previously considered stronger than they were.

I still don't think that there is much difference beyond the Top 10-13.  #14 thru 40 is probably pretty comparable.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 01, 2011, 01:33:36 AM
Ten ballots in, with over 17 hours to go - let's set a record!

While there has been some separation in most of the top 10-12 spots, only #5 looks safe (11 below #4, 17 above #6 - and, no, you didn't think I'd say which team that is, did you ;))!  Number 6 and 7 are one point apart - your ballot DOES count.

Come on guys (Greg, sac, kilted bryan, and anyone I'm momentarily blanking out on) - new record for the season time! :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 01, 2011, 05:03:01 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 28, 2011, 03:27:47 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 28, 2011, 09:47:44 AM
I'm in. Mark Whitworth down for a #1.
Please introduce me to this Mr. Mark Whitworth please.  :P

Sure thing. He's the SID here at KnightSlappy U.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 01, 2011, 05:07:45 PM
That's good news. He MUST have influenced your ballot towards his namesake U!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 01, 2011, 07:14:26 PM
After going all day stuck on ten, FINALLY got that elusive 11th ballot!

I'll post in an hour or so unless someone chimes in soon with a promised ballot.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on March 01, 2011, 07:23:20 PM
You make it seem like you were waiting all day for me MrY. ;)

Fun poll, dilemma's with what to do with the teams left out of the tournament.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 01, 2011, 07:32:12 PM
Quote from: sac on March 01, 2011, 07:23:20 PM
You make it seem like you were waiting all day for me MrY. ;)

Fun poll, dilemma's with what to do with the teams left out of the tournament.

For ballots in general, yes.  But I didn't disrupt my day for you specifically! ;)

I can't recall a year where there weren't one or more teams on both this and the d3hoops.com poll who didn't get left out.  The selection process is so different from what poll voters do.  My worry is that those left out may get forgotten in the final poll (though usually at least one or two survives).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: kiltedbryan on March 01, 2011, 08:14:16 PM
Mr. Y, if you hold up, I'll have a ballot to you within the hour.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 01, 2011, 09:55:39 PM
Tightest race at the top I can ever recall -wasn't decided until the very last ballot!

POSTERS' POLL, February 27, 2011:

1.  Whitworth          287 (1,1,1,1,1,2,2,3,3,3,3,4)
2.  Middlebury          285 (1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2,3,3,3,6)
3.  UWSP                 283 (1,1,1,2,2,2,2,3,3,4,4,4)
4.  Williams              265 (2,2,3,3,3,4,4,4,4,5,5,8)
5.  Wooster             251 (4,4,4,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,7,7)
6.  Randy Mac          231 (4,5,6,6,7,7,7,7,7,8,8,9)
7.  Augustana          225 (6,6,6,6,6,7,7,7,8,8,8,12)
8.  St. Thomas         220 (5,6,6,6,7,8,8,9,9,9,9,10)
9.  Amherst             216 (5,6,7,8,8,8,8,9,9,9,9,10)
10  Va Wes              177 (9,10,10,10,10,11,11,11,12,13,13,15)
11  Marietta             156 (9,10,11,11,11,12,13,13,13,14,16,23)
12  St. Mary's           150 (11,12,12,12,12,13,13,14,14,14,16,19)
13  EMU                   136 (10,10,10,11,11,12,15,16,17,17,21,-)
14  Chapman           120 (11,11,12,12,13,14,14,15, 19,20,25,-)
15  WPI                    118 (12,12,13,13,15,16,17,18,18,19,20,21)
16  St. Norbert           99 (9,14,16,17,17,18,18,18,19,20,21,-)
17  UWRF                   98 (10,15,15,15,17,18,18,20,20,20,21,25)
18  Rochester             76 (13,16,16,16,17,19,19,22,22,24,-,-)
19  F & M                    69 (10,14,14,15,18,19, 23,-,-,-,-,-)
t20 Hope                    49 (13,16,19,19,20,20,-,-,-,-,-,-)
t20 Wabash                49 14,14,16,19,20,24,-,-,-,-,-,-)
22  Concordia              48 (14,15,19,22,22,22,23,23,-,-,-,-)
23  W. Conn.               43 (11,18,20,21,21,22,-,-,-,-,-,-)
24  Manchester           41 (15,16,17,21,23,24,25,-,-,-,-,-)
25  Centre                   38 (17,18,19,20,22,24,24,-,-,-,-,-)

26  Witt                       31 (15,16,17,26)
27  La Roche               20 (21,22,23,24,24,24,25,25)
t28 Oswego                15 (17,22,24)
t28 UT-Dallas               15 (21,21,21)
t30 Ramapo                 14 (17,23,25,25)
t30 RIC                         14 (15,23)
32  Ferrum                   12 (18,22)
33  Carleton                 10 18,24)
34  McMurry                   8 22,23,25)
t35 Emory                      6 (23,23)
t35 Ithaca                      6 (20)
37  Cabrini                     5 (21)
t38 NCWC                      4 (23,25)
t38 Alvernia                  4 (22)
t40 Birm. S                    2 (24)
t40 Buff. St.                  2 (24)
t42 Becker                     1
t42 IWU                         1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: kiltedbryan on March 01, 2011, 10:16:12 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 01, 2011, 09:55:39 PM
Tightest race at the top I can ever recall -wasn't decided until the very last ballot!

Glad I'm good for something!   ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on March 01, 2011, 11:25:18 PM
Quote from: sac on March 01, 2011, 07:23:20 PM
You make it seem like you were waiting all day for me MrY. ;)

Fun poll, dilemma's with what to do with the teams left out of the tournament.

FWIW I still had votes for EMU and Carleton, not being in the tournament is going to make it difficult to vote for them in 3 weeks however.  Wabash dropped off my list and Ferrum was not in my top 25 last week.

Left at my table were F&M, Wabash, Mary Hardin Baylor, IWU.  For F&M and MHB its due to schedule. 

Statistics are playing a key role in how I'm ranking teams, I think its giving a broader view of the whole season vs just the emotions of the last few games.  My top 3 has been the same for all 3 polls I voted, they've just shuffled in order.  This week 1 and 3 flipped giving me UWSP, Whitworth and Williams.  My top 9 has been locked on the same 9 teams with very little movement among them, and not much shuffling around overall.

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2011, 12:09:29 AM
Quote from: sac on March 01, 2011, 11:25:18 PM
Quote from: sac on March 01, 2011, 07:23:20 PM
You make it seem like you were waiting all day for me MrY. ;)

Fun poll, dilemma's with what to do with the teams left out of the tournament.

FWIW I still had votes for EMU and Carleton, not being in the tournament is going to make it difficult to vote for them in 3 weeks however.  Wabash dropped off my list and Ferrum was not in my top 25 last week.

Left at my table were F&M, Wabash, Mary Hardin Baylor, IWU.  For F&M and MHB its due to schedule. 

Statistics are playing a key role in how I'm ranking teams, I think its giving a broader view of the whole season vs just the emotions of the last few games.  My top 3 has been the same for all 3 polls I voted, they've just shuffled in order.  This week 1 and 3 flipped giving me UWSP, Whitworth and Williams.  My top 9 has been locked on the same 9 teams with very little movement among them, and not much shuffling around overall.

I see the poll as "how would you bet on the game on a neutral court NOW", which obviously takes into account the whole season, but puts a premium on recent results.  Not being in the tourney (e.g., EMU, but also etc.) obviously does not help, but hopefully is not prohibitive.  Teams in the tourney can obviously help their cause (or can totally implode, if seen as 'iffy' in the first place and just 'drifted up'), while those not selected are 'frozen'.  My final ballot will definitely include EMU, though they may not be their current #11.  Some team(s) may earn their way to a spot higher than #11. 

But I hate how some voters automatically put the FF in their top 4, the E8 in their top 8, etc.  This year's brackets seem unusually balanced, but such is not usually the case.  There have been many times where a team made the Elite 8 without ever beating a ranked team - how does that automatically make them among the top 8 (SOMEONE had to win the bracket, however bad they might be ::))?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 02, 2011, 09:01:12 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2011, 12:09:29 AM
I see the poll as "how would you bet on the game on a neutral court NOW", which obviously takes into account the whole season, but puts a premium on recent results. 
We are talking D3 right?  ;)  :P
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 02, 2011, 09:07:56 AM
If we've learned anything from EMU this year, it's that being good last year and going 1-3 in tough games will get you ranked in the top 15.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Will2Win on March 02, 2011, 09:13:01 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 02, 2011, 09:07:56 AM
If we've learned anything from EMU this year, it's that being good last year and going 1-3 in tough games will get you ranked in the top 15.

No, actually the only thing we've learned from EMU this year is teams must schedule in region games....some how, some way. If not you better win every game on your schedule...and fyi i'm pretty sure most teams wouldnt have even gone 1-3 against the same ranked games that we participated in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: ziggy on March 02, 2011, 09:24:11 AM
Quote from: bossman on March 02, 2011, 09:13:01 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 02, 2011, 09:07:56 AM
If we've learned anything from EMU this year, it's that being good last year and going 1-3 in tough games will get you ranked in the top 15.

No, actually the only thing we've learned from EMU this year is teams must schedule in region games....some how, some way. If not you better win every game on your schedule...and fyi i'm pretty sure most teams wouldnt have even gone 1-3 against the same ranked games that we participated in.

The discussion isn't about most teams, its about a top 15 team.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Will2Win on March 02, 2011, 09:43:50 AM
Quote from: ziggy on March 02, 2011, 09:24:11 AM
Quote from: bossman on March 02, 2011, 09:13:01 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 02, 2011, 09:07:56 AM
If we've learned anything from EMU this year, it's that being good last year and going 1-3 in tough games will get you ranked in the top 15.

No, actually the only thing we've learned from EMU this year is teams must schedule in region games....some how, some way. If not you better win every game on your schedule...and fyi i'm pretty sure most teams wouldnt have even gone 1-3 against the same ranked games that we participated in.

The discussion isn't about most teams, its about a top 15 team.

Well throw any top 15 team in the country against RMC or Va Wes and 9 times outta 10 im gonna go with the ODAC, especially if its RMC
So most teams or "A TOP 15"...Doesnt matter to me who we're talking about i'm standing by my guns!  8-)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 08, 2011, 02:22:14 PM
Quote from: bossman on March 02, 2011, 09:43:50 AM
Quote from: ziggy on March 02, 2011, 09:24:11 AM
Quote from: bossman on March 02, 2011, 09:13:01 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 02, 2011, 09:07:56 AM
If we've learned anything from EMU this year, it's that being good last year and going 1-3 in tough games will get you ranked in the top 15.

No, actually the only thing we've learned from EMU this year is teams must schedule in region games....some how, some way. If not you better win every game on your schedule...and fyi i'm pretty sure most teams wouldnt have even gone 1-3 against the same ranked games that we participated in.

The discussion isn't about most teams, its about a top 15 team.

Well throw any top 15 team in the country against RMC or Va Wes and 9 times outta 10 im gonna go with the ODAC, especially if its RMC
So most teams or "A TOP 15"...Doesnt matter to me who we're talking about i'm standing by my guns!  8-)
Oops!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 10, 2011, 04:11:32 PM
Quote from: magicman on February 28, 2011, 04:37:16 AM
Mine's in. And I know I broke the tie and Middlebury now has 2 #1 votes. ;D

Question: The National Champion will come from which sectional? Wooster Sectional-Whitworth, Marietta, Cabrini   17 (42.5%)
Williams Sectional-Amherst, VWU, RIC   6 (15%)
Rochester Sectional-Middlebury, St. Mary's, Buffalo State   3 (7.5%)
Augustana Sectional-MHB, Stevens Point, St. Thomas   14 (35%)
 
Total Voters: 40

So out of 40 I think I can safely conclude that Magicman and Nescac1 and 1 other guy like Middlebury.  Yet in Poster Poll Midd had 4 #1's.  Looks like a defector.

Whitworth and Wooster have nearly 6x the love with 17 votes.  How many of those are for Wooster?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 10, 2011, 05:16:45 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 10, 2011, 04:11:32 PM
Quote from: magicman on February 28, 2011, 04:37:16 AM
Mine's in. And I know I broke the tie and Middlebury now has 2 #1 votes. ;D

Question: The National Champion will come from which sectional? Wooster Sectional-Whitworth, Marietta, Cabrini   17 (42.5%)
Williams Sectional-Amherst, VWU, RIC   6 (15%)
Rochester Sectional-Middlebury, St. Mary's, Buffalo State   3 (7.5%)
Augustana Sectional-MHB, Stevens Point, St. Thomas   14 (35%)
 
Total Voters: 40

So out of 40 I think I can safely conclude that Magicman and Nescac1 and 1 other guy like Middlebury.  Yet in Poster Poll Midd had 4 #1's.  Looks like a defector.

Whitworth and Wooster have nearly 6x the love with 17 votes.  How many of those are for Wooster?

I was one of the 4 Midd voters, but was not among the 40 voters.

I would have been a defector, as I'm picking UWSP to win it all, but given their number of losses couldn't quite vote them #1.  (BTW, I'm picking UWSP, but unless I get a sweep on Friday to move into contention on the bracket contest [I've got 49 points], I'll be rooting for Augie. ;))
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 10, 2011, 05:24:29 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 10, 2011, 05:16:45 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 10, 2011, 04:11:32 PM
Quote from: magicman on February 28, 2011, 04:37:16 AM
Mine's in. And I know I broke the tie and Middlebury now has 2 #1 votes. ;D

Question: The National Champion will come from which sectional? Wooster Sectional-Whitworth, Marietta, Cabrini   17 (42.5%)
Williams Sectional-Amherst, VWU, RIC   6 (15%)
Rochester Sectional-Middlebury, St. Mary's, Buffalo State   3 (7.5%)
Augustana Sectional-MHB, Stevens Point, St. Thomas   14 (35%)
 
Total Voters: 40

So out of 40 I think I can safely conclude that Magicman and Nescac1 and 1 other guy like Middlebury.  Yet in Poster Poll Midd had 4 #1's.  Looks like a defector.

Whitworth and Wooster have nearly 6x the love with 17 votes.  How many of those are for Wooster?

I was one of the 4 Midd voters, but was not among the 40 voters.

I would have been a defector, as I'm picking UWSP to win it all, but given their number of losses couldn't quite vote them #1.  (BTW, I'm picking UWSP, but unless I get a sweep on Friday to move into contention on the bracket contest [I've got 49 points], I'll be rooting for Augie. ;))
You got quite a few picks out there!   :o  another of your infamous "spreads"?  ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 10, 2011, 09:19:20 PM

I picked the Whitworth/Wooster sectional strictly because I think there's five teams with a better than average shot at winning - two of them were in one sectional.  I'm not a mathematician, but it seemed like that makes the odds better.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 10, 2011, 09:23:23 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 10, 2011, 09:19:20 PM

I picked the Whitworth/Wooster sectional strictly because I think there's five teams with a better than average shot at winning - two of them were in one sectional.  I'm not a mathematician, but it seemed like that makes the odds better.
How do you rank the Augustana sectional Hoops Fan?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 11, 2011, 12:43:37 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 10, 2011, 09:23:23 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 10, 2011, 09:19:20 PM

I picked the Whitworth/Wooster sectional strictly because I think there's five teams with a better than average shot at winning - two of them were in one sectional.  I'm not a mathematician, but it seemed like that makes the odds better.
How do you rank the Augustana sectional Hoops Fan?

I think Augie and the Tommies have some deficiencies this year.  I think they're title capable teams, but it would be a surprise if either of them went all the way.  Point has been very strong.

I'd sort of compare this to the Williams bracket.  Amherst and VWC are both strong squads, but a step below the real tourney favorites.

I don't doubt any of those teams can win two games this weekend, but Point and Williams, to me, are the only teams with a chance to win four in a row.

Whitworth, Wooster, and Middlebury are the other three in my top five.

I kind of split everyone into title teams, final four teams (those schools you know are good enough to get to Salem if they get on a hot streak, but would be upset champions), and surprise teams.

Wooster, Whitworth, Williams, Point, and Middlebury in the top group.

Augie, St. Thomas, Amherst, VWC in the second group.

Everyone else in the surprise category (probably more on who they'd have to beat than the actual make-up of the squads themselves).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 19, 2011, 03:33:54 PM

As per my habit, I cleared the board and started from scratch today - giving more weight to the end of the season, but taking the whole year into account.

I did not give bonus points for making the tournament, although playing tournament games obviously helps the overall resume.

I've got everything ready, just waiting to slot in the 1 and 2 teams.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on March 19, 2011, 05:10:21 PM
My final poll in is.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 19, 2011, 05:13:25 PM
Quote from: magicman on March 19, 2011, 05:10:21 PM
My final poll in is.


Me too.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on March 19, 2011, 05:25:43 PM
My final four was Whitworth, Williams, Middlebury, and St. Thomas. I had Whitworth beating Williams and St. Thomas beating Middlebury, with St Thomas winning it all. Only Whitworth let me down.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 19, 2011, 08:50:24 PM
Mine is in.  One other performance that we should recall was the 6-point loss by VWC at Williams, 79-73 in the Sweet 16.  That was a "plane flight" game of the visitors to the Williams home court.

I have called that a 7-point Home Court Advantage for Williams, a very tough place to play.  I think that VWC would have beaten Williams on a neutral court.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 20, 2011, 04:15:00 PM
All season long I was certain the Tommies were overrated (I picked IWU to upset them before UWSP took out my Titans).  I stand corrected! :-[

To my delight, we already had 6 ballots by late Saturday, but no more since then.  I hope there are plenty more in preparation between now and Tuesday! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 20, 2011, 04:35:39 PM

I've been supportive of St. Thomas in the last several years only to see some overrated teams come tournament time.  I chose this year to be skeptical and look what it got me.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 20, 2011, 04:39:51 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 20, 2011, 04:35:39 PM

I've been supportive of St. Thomas in the last several years only to see some overrated teams come tournament time.  I chose this year to be skeptical and look what it got me.
The chance to watch them prove themselves.

If they were outside your Top10, then you may want to review your skepticism.  Otherwise, I don't think that you were out of the realm of plausible assessment.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 20, 2011, 05:09:38 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 20, 2011, 04:39:51 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 20, 2011, 04:35:39 PM

I've been supportive of St. Thomas in the last several years only to see some overrated teams come tournament time.  I chose this year to be skeptical and look what it got me.
The chance to watch them prove themselves.

If they were outside your Top10, then you may want to review your skepticism.  Otherwise, I don't think that you were out of the realm of plausible assessment.

On our last PP before the tourney, they were in everyone's top 10, but only one voter had them as high as 5th.  The median was 8th, the mode was 9th.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on March 20, 2011, 07:20:59 PM
Had St. Thomas #8, Wooster #7, Middlebury #6, Williams #3 before the tourny.

I'll have a poll closer to Tuesday than Monday. :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 22, 2011, 05:42:39 PM
It's Tuesday evening and still only 7 ballots (sac says his is coming soon) - other folks?  Greg?  KnightSlappy? Kilted Bryan? smedindy? pbrooks? anyone?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 22, 2011, 05:49:55 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 22, 2011, 05:42:39 PM
It's Tuesday evening and still only 7 ballots (sac says his is coming soon) - other folks?  Greg?  KnightSlappy? Kilted Bryan? smedindy? pbrooks? anyone?
C'mon guys!

Get your poll in!  It is the last one of the season!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 22, 2011, 05:52:23 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 22, 2011, 05:49:55 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 22, 2011, 05:42:39 PM
It's Tuesday evening and still only 7 ballots (sac says his is coming soon) - other folks?  Greg?  KnightSlappy? Kilted Bryan? smedindy? pbrooks? anyone?
C'mon guys!

Get your poll in!  It is the last one of the season!

And there are some VERY close races, even near the top - your vote WILL make a difference. ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 22, 2011, 06:25:05 PM
Mine will be late. Between 9 and 10 if you can wait. I'll need to fire up the old spreadsheets one last time.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 22, 2011, 07:50:43 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 22, 2011, 06:25:05 PM
Mine will be late. Between 9 and 10 if you can wait. I'll need to fire up the old spreadsheets one last time.

I'll wait.  sac is now in.  Anyone else, or should I post once I hear from KS?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 22, 2011, 08:39:53 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 22, 2011, 07:50:43 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 22, 2011, 06:25:05 PM
Mine will be late. Between 9 and 10 if you can wait. I'll need to fire up the old spreadsheets one last time.

I'll wait.  sac is now in.  Anyone else, or should I post once I hear from KS?
Wait for KS... ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: kiltedbryan on March 22, 2011, 08:52:47 PM
Working through mine now, should have it in in the same time frame as KnightSlappy.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 22, 2011, 09:49:11 PM
We've now hit 10.  I'll post in about an hour unless I hear from anyone else.

Greg? pbrooks? smed? Bueller?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 22, 2011, 10:20:55 PM
Downer: I'm feeling very queasy and am going to bed.

Upper: There is an extra 12+ hours for voters to vote.

Make my upset stomach be a benefit for the PP! :D  Don't make me puke for nothing! :o
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 22, 2011, 11:14:27 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 22, 2011, 10:20:55 PM
Downer: I'm feeling very queasy and am going to bed.

Upper: There is an extra 12+ hours for voters to vote.

Make my upset stomach be a benefit for the PP! :D  Don't make me puke for nothing! :o
I appreciate your diligence and persistence in conducting the Posters' Poll.  However, do not make yourself sick in anticipation of the final results.   ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 23, 2011, 08:38:10 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 22, 2011, 10:20:55 PM
Downer: I'm feeling very queasy and am going to bed.

Upper: There is an extra 12+ hours for voters to vote.

Make my upset stomach be a benefit for the PP!   Don't make me puke for nothing!

How often do you get 12 hours sleep in a night?  I'm a little jealous.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 23, 2011, 09:05:21 AM
I'm assuming it's safe to at least discuss our ballots. Who else didn't vote for St. Thomas #1?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: frodotwo on March 23, 2011, 10:43:06 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 23, 2011, 09:05:21 AM
I'm assuming it's safe to at least discuss our ballots. Who else didn't vote for St. Thomas #1?

I'm betting they will be unanimous. 2-5 may be the questionable area. I couldn't put Woo as #2 after their championship game play, and thought Midd deserved to be there based on their performance against the same team that whupped Woo. I had six new teams enter the poll, five of which I never gave thought to at all during the year, even when compiling my list of prospective candidates. I looked at every league before the first and then the fifth poll for candidates and 4 of the 5 newbies weren't even on my radar. My top 11 were the same at the D3 poll, with 2-3 and 7-8 switched.   
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 23, 2011, 10:50:22 AM
Quote from: frodotwo on March 23, 2011, 10:43:06 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 23, 2011, 09:05:21 AM
I'm assuming it's safe to at least discuss our ballots. Who else didn't vote for St. Thomas #1?

I'm betting they will be unanimous. 2-5 may be the questionable area. I couldn't put Woo as #2 after their championship game play, and thought Midd deserved to be there based on their performance against the same team that whupped Woo. I had six new teams enter the poll, five of which I never gave thought to at all during the year, even when compiling my list of prospective candidates. I looked at every league before the first and then the fifth poll for candidates and 4 of the 5 newbies weren't even on my radar. My top 11 were the same at the D3 poll, with 2-3 and 7-8 switched.   

I know they won't be unanimous, because I had them at #3. And Wooster at #6.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on March 23, 2011, 10:52:35 AM
If this keeps being pushed off, I might be able to get one in too
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 23, 2011, 11:10:34 AM
POSTERS' POLL - FINAL 2011

1.  St Thomas        248 (unanimous, except one 3)
2.  Wooster           229 (2,2,2,2,3,3,3,3,5,6)
3.  Middlebury        226 (2,2,2,2,3,3,3,5,6,6)
4.  Williams            224 (1.2.3.4,4,4,4,4,4,5)
5.  Whitworth        212 (3,4,4,4,5,5,5,6,6,6)
6.  UWSP               209 (2,4,5,5,5,5,6,6,6,7)
7.  Amherst           185 (6,7,7,7,7,7,8,8,9,9)
8.  Augustana       178 (7,7,8,8,8,8,8,8,9,11)
9.  St. Mary's         166 (7,8,9,9,9,9,10,10,10,13)
10 Va Wes             164 (7,8,9,9,10,10,10,10,10,13)
11 Randy Mac        138 (9,11,11,11,11,11,12,15,15,16)
12 Marietta            129 (10,11,11,11,12,12,12,13.15.24)
13 Rochester         118 (10,12,13,14,14,14,14,15,17,19)
14 Hope                  84 (12,13,13,17,18,18,19,20,23,23)
15 EMU                   78 (12,12,13,14,18,20,21,23,23,-)
16 RIC                     75 (13,14,15,15,17,18,20,21,-,-)
17 Manchester         70 (14,16,16,17,17,18,20,21,25,-)
18 Chapman            67 (12,15,18,19,19,20,20,22,23,25)
19 Cabrini                55 (13,13,16,18,21,23,24,25,-,-)
20 F&M                    42 (15,17,18,19,21,25,25,-,-,-)
21 Buff St                 41 (16,16,19,20,21,23,-,-,-,-)
22 St. Norbert          39 (12,17,18,22,22,-,-,-,-,-)
23 UMHB                  38 (16,16,19,20,21,-,-,-,-,-)
24 UWRF                  37 (15,16,18,21,24,25,-,-,-,-)
25 WPI                    32 (14,17,20,24,24,25,-,-,-,-)

26 IWU                    31 (17,19,21,22,22,24)
27 Oswego              20 (14,19,25)
28 Witt                    19 (11,23,25)
29 W. Conn            15 (15,22)
30 Carleton             13 (21,22,22)
31 Ferrum               12 (14)
t32 Alvernia              11 (19,22)
t32 Luther                11 (17,24)
34 Wabash              10 (16)
35 Centre                  8 (20,24)
36 Becker                  6 (22,24)
t37 Concordia           3 (23)
t37 Ramapo               3 (23)
39 LaRoche                2 (24)
40 SUNY-Purchase      1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nescac1 on March 23, 2011, 11:11:24 AM
Wow, St. Thomas at number 3?  I don't see how you can justify that after winning a national title in dominant fashion in the title game, and beating some damn good teams on the road to Salem.  I put Midd at number two, considering how strong their entire body of work was (zero bad losses) and how close they came to beating St. Thomas, but I can't think of any team who deserves to be ranked above St. Thomas or Midd.  Not Stevens Point, who St. Thomas beat twice.  Not Wooster, Midd or Williams, due to Final Four results.  Certainly not Whitworth, who had very few impressive wins all year long (and no wins over any top-ten teams).  

Edit: Looking now it seems you put Williams at number 1, which I am happy to see of course, but ultimately, St. Thomas was the best team at the Final Four, and deserves a top ranking. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: ScotsFan on March 23, 2011, 11:42:39 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 23, 2011, 10:50:22 AM
Quote from: frodotwo on March 23, 2011, 10:43:06 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 23, 2011, 09:05:21 AM
I'm assuming it's safe to at least discuss our ballots. Who else didn't vote for St. Thomas #1?

I'm betting they will be unanimous. 2-5 may be the questionable area. I couldn't put Woo as #2 after their championship game play, and thought Midd deserved to be there based on their performance against the same team that whupped Woo. I had six new teams enter the poll, five of which I never gave thought to at all during the year, even when compiling my list of prospective candidates. I looked at every league before the first and then the fifth poll for candidates and 4 of the 5 newbies weren't even on my radar. My top 11 were the same at the D3 poll, with 2-3 and 7-8 switched.   

I know they won't be unanimous, because I had them at #3. And Wooster at #6.

Could you please explain to me how you ranked the team that just won the NC in dominating fashion #3?  And they did so by beating the #2, #3 and #5 teams in the country on their path to winning said NC.  Who, may I ask, did you have ranked ahead of STU despite the fact that they didn't do what STU did and that is win the NCAA Tournament while beating some very good teams along the way in doing so?

And Woo at #6?  Wooster makes it all the way to the championship game and they DROP in the rankngs in your eyes?  Yes, Woo's performance in the NC game was disappointing, but I don't know how you could overlook their wins over the previously #1 and #4 ranked teams in the country on their way to making the championship game.  And I'd argue the energy that Wooster used (both physically and mentally) in their epic comeback victory over Williams may have had a little to do with their less than stellar performance vs. STU in the championship game. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 23, 2011, 12:13:35 PM
Unfortunately, losses to Hamline, St. Olaf, and Carleton still count in my book.

Williams, my #1, didn't have a loss outside of my Top 6.

Middlebury (my #2) only lost to my #1 Williams and my #3 St. Thomas, but they didn't have as difficult of a schedule as Williams did.

Wooster wasn't tested during the season as well as the teams above them were. They played tough games in the tournament, but so did everyone else. They also got an advantage by playing Whitworth at home.

Why people put so much stock into tournament results mystifies me.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 23, 2011, 12:16:26 PM
Quote from: ScotsFan on March 23, 2011, 11:42:39 AM
And Woo at #6?  Wooster makes it all the way to the championship game and they DROP in the rankngs in your eyes? 

Nope, I had them at #7 going into the tournament. They moved up.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on March 23, 2011, 12:32:38 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 23, 2011, 12:13:35 PM
Why people put so much stock into tournament results mystifies me.

I know, it isn't like they issue a trophy at the end of it and declare a national champion or anything...   ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 23, 2011, 12:39:39 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on March 23, 2011, 12:32:38 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 23, 2011, 12:13:35 PM
Why people put so much stock into tournament results mystifies me.

I know, it isn't like they issue a trophy at the end of it and declare a national champion or anything...   ;)

Are we running the poll to find out who just won the NC? If so I quit.  ;)

Or are we trying to decide who the best team is? Sometimes the best team doesn't win, right? Like if you replayed the entire tournament over again starting this weekend, would St. Thomas win? Would they be more likely to win than Middlebury? Or Whitworth or Williams or even Wooster or Stevens Point?

What if we changed the locations to give all deserving teams the home court. RMC and Whitworth would get more home games. UWSP would have played some home games. Would that change the results?

Can you definitively tell me that UST is better than Middlebury because of a two point win?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: ziggy on March 23, 2011, 12:51:27 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 23, 2011, 12:39:39 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on March 23, 2011, 12:32:38 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 23, 2011, 12:13:35 PM
Why people put so much stock into tournament results mystifies me.

I know, it isn't like they issue a trophy at the end of it and declare a national champion or anything...   ;)

Are we running the poll to find out who just won the NC? If so I quit.  ;)

Or are we trying to decide who the best team is? Sometimes the best team doesn't win, right? Like if you replayed the entire tournament over again starting this weekend, would St. Thomas win? Would they be more likely to win than Middlebury? Or Whitworth or Williams or even Wooster or Stevens Point?

What if we changed the locations to give all deserving teams the home court. RMC and Whitworth would get more home games. UWSP would have played some home games. Would that change the results?

Can you definitively tell me that UST is better than Middlebury because of a two point win?

The Maui invitational is stacked next year. The NCAA should cancel the rest of the DI season because the presumed best teams will have already played a tournament.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: ScotsFan on March 23, 2011, 01:06:05 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on March 23, 2011, 12:32:38 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 23, 2011, 12:13:35 PM
Why people put so much stock into tournament results mystifies me.

I know, it isn't like they issue a trophy at the end of it and declare a national champion or anything...   ;)

Yeah.  I missed the part where Williams was awarded a trophy for not losing to a team outside of the top 6...  :P

And I'm sorry, but to say Wooster wasn't tested is a bit of an understatement if you ask me.  Their only regular season losses came at the hands of ranked teams which they also had wins over those teams as well, splitting with both Witt and Wabash.  And I guess not being tested sure hurt them in their run to the championship game... (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.scout.com%2Fmedia%2Fforums%2Femoticons%2Fnoidea.gif&hash=d0853e7250ffe0f662a746329d301aa06dd4ee9f)

Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 23, 2011, 12:39:39 PM

Can you definitively tell me that UST is better than Middlebury because of a two point win?

Ummm. Is that not why they play the games?  Maybe we should just stop playing games and just use RPI's and SOS's and whatever other computer generated formulas out there? 

UST may not be 'definitvely' better than Midd, but unfortunately for Midd, the Tommies were better when it counted.  UST beat Midd head to head on a neutral floor, therefore I am going to presume in my mind that STU is the better team.  Period.  Likewise, Wooster beat Williams head to head on a nuetral floor.  Therefore I would have to presume that Wooster is a better team.  Period.  So on and so forth...  I'm not in the business of presuming who would beat who in a best of 7 series or under different home court circumstances or whatever other scenarios you come up with in trying to justify why you would rank 2 teams that lost in the national semis ahead of the team that acutally won the tournament and beat one of those teams head to head?!  (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.scout.com%2Fmedia%2Fforums%2Femoticons%2Fnoidea.gif&hash=d0853e7250ffe0f662a746329d301aa06dd4ee9f)

Personally, I think this year's Final 4 was a pretty darn good reflection of truly the 4 best teams in the country.  As I said above, STU knocked off previously #2 Midd, #3 UWSP and #5 Wooster on their path to a championship.  Wooster knocked of previously #1 Whitworth and #4 Williams on their path to the championship game.  And Midd and Williams were the #2 and #4 ranked teams coming into the tournament and they lived up to their rankings by making it to Salem.  Not too bad of a represnentation if you ask me no matter how you want to pick apart how they got there...


Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 23, 2011, 01:06:16 PM
I understand where you're coming from, O Dean, but I think that there is a qualitative difference between tournament games and regular season games, just as within the regular season there are qualitative differences between conference games and non-conference games. How do I know this? Because generations of basketball players have told me how the higher stakes and the win-or-go-home setup in March amp everything and everyone up and make it harder to play under control, much less win, in a tournament game than a regular-season game, all other factors being equal.

How much of a qualitative difference there is is certainly subject to debate, but I think that the difference is there.

Not all basketball games are created equal.

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: ziggy on March 23, 2011, 01:19:27 PM
Quote from: ScotsFan on March 23, 2011, 01:06:05 PM

Yeah.  I missed the part where Williams was awarded a trophy for not losing to a team outside of the top 6...  :P

And I'm sorry, but to say Wooster wasn't tested is a bit of an understatement if you ask me.  Their only regular season losses came at the hands of ranked teams which they also had wins over those teams as well, splitting with both Witt and Wabash.  And I guess not being tested sure hurt them in their run to the championship game... (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.scout.com%2Fmedia%2Fforums%2Femoticons%2Fnoidea.gif&hash=d0853e7250ffe0f662a746329d301aa06dd4ee9f)

I missed the part where KS argued against St. Thomas as the national champion. Does a tournament prove who the best team is or does it provide a clean ending to the season and crown a generally acceptable champion? A top 25 is a ranking of the 25 best teams in the country as determined by the individual voter by his or her criteria of what "best" means. That #1 may or may not be the team that won the tournament.

Quote from: ScotsFan on March 23, 2011, 01:06:05 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 23, 2011, 12:39:39 PM

Can you definitively tell me that UST is better than Middlebury because of a two point win?

Ummm. Is that not why they play the games?  Maybe we should just stop playing games and just use RPI's and SOS's and whatever other computer generated formulas out there? 

It wouldn't take a computer to spit out an RPI or SOS if there weren't any games... The games play a pretty important role in their computation.  ;)


Sorry, I can't resist the urge to egg this debate on!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 23, 2011, 01:25:49 PM
poll

–noun
1. a sampling or collection of opinions on a subject, taken from either a selected or a random group of persons, as for the purpose of analysis.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 23, 2011, 02:00:00 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 23, 2011, 01:06:16 PM
I understand where you're coming from, O Dean, but I think that there is a qualitative difference between tournament games and regular season games, just as within the regular season there are qualitative differences between conference games and non-conference games. How do I know this? Because generations of basketball players have told me how the higher stakes and the win-or-go-home setup in March amp everything and everyone up and make it harder to play under control, much less win, in a tournament game than a regular-season game, all other factors being equal.

How much of a qualitative difference there is is certainly subject to debate, but I think that the difference is there.

Not all basketball games are created equal.



Wow, so it should have been easier for UST to play under control and win against St. Olaf, Hamline, and Carleton then. Should knocked them down more for not doing so.  :) ;) :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 23, 2011, 02:29:00 PM
Quote from: ScotsFan on March 23, 2011, 01:06:05 PM
And I'm sorry, but to say Wooster wasn't tested is a bit of an understatement if you ask me.  Their only regular season losses came at the hands of ranked teams which they also had wins over those teams as well, splitting with both Witt and Wabash.  And I guess not being tested sure hurt them in their run to the championship game... (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.scout.com%2Fmedia%2Fforums%2Femoticons%2Fnoidea.gif&hash=d0853e7250ffe0f662a746329d301aa06dd4ee9f)

I would agree that saying Wooster wasn't tested would be an understatement. It's a good thing, then, that I didn't say it!

Quote from: ScotsFan on March 23, 2011, 01:06:05 PM
[
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 23, 2011, 12:39:39 PM

Can you definitively tell me that UST is better than Middlebury because of a two point win?

Ummm. Is that not why they play the games?

They certainly don't play the games to find out who is definitively the better team. They play the game to find out who wins. They play the tournament to find out who wins the championship. I'm not disputing either facts. St. Thomas won and I'm happy for them and their fans, but I'm just disputing whether or not I need vote for the champion as my #1?

In 2005, Calvin lost to Rochester in the semis in Salem on a last second shot. Rochester went on to lose to UWSP in the finals, but Calvin was voted #2 (two spots ahead of Rochester) in the final d3hoops.com poll. Why? Because voters felt that Calvin was a better team that happened to get beat that day.

Calvin went 0-2 versus Adrian this year. Does that mean Adrian was a better team? I don't think so, and I don't know many (non-Adrian) MIAA fans that would say they were, but Adrian won. Twice.

I vote in the poll who I think is the best team. I vote based on a season's body of work.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: ScotsFan on March 23, 2011, 03:35:52 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 23, 2011, 02:29:00 PM
Quote from: ScotsFan on March 23, 2011, 01:06:05 PM
And I'm sorry, but to say Wooster wasn't tested is a bit of an understatement if you ask me.  Their only regular season losses came at the hands of ranked teams which they also had wins over those teams as well, splitting with both Witt and Wabash.  And I guess not being tested sure hurt them in their run to the championship game... (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.scout.com%2Fmedia%2Fforums%2Femoticons%2Fnoidea.gif&hash=d0853e7250ffe0f662a746329d301aa06dd4ee9f)

I would agree that saying Wooster wasn't tested would be an understatement. It's a good thing, then, that I didn't say it!


Sorry, I misinterpreted your post to mean Woostr wasn't tested when you were saying they weren't tested as much as those ranked ahead of them.


Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 23, 2011, 02:29:00 PM
Quote from: ScotsFan on March 23, 2011, 01:06:05 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 23, 2011, 12:39:39 PM

Can you definitively tell me that UST is better than Middlebury because of a two point win?

Ummm. Is that not why they play the games?

They certainly don't play the games to find out who is definitively the better team. They play the game to find out who wins. They play the tournament to find out who wins the championship. I'm not disputing either facts. St. Thomas won and I'm happy for them and their fans, but I'm just disputing whether or not I need vote for the champion as my #1?

In 2005, Calvin lost to Rochester in the semis in Salem on a last second shot. Rochester went on to lose to UWSP in the finals, but Calvin was voted #2 (two spots ahead of Rochester) in the final d3hoops.com poll. Why? Because voters felt that Calvin was a better team that happened to get beat that day.

Calvin went 0-2 versus Adrian this year. Does that mean Adrian was a better team? I don't think so, and I don't know many (non-Adrian) MIAA fans that would say they were, but Adrian won. Twice.

I vote in the poll who I think is the best team. I vote based on a season's body of work.

You have a point.  I guess I just see things a little differently.  Especially when we're talking about a final poll.  I guess I look at it as if Williams or Middlebury were difinitively the #1 and #2 team in the country, they would have won their semi-final games which they didn't do.  If they were so good, they should have won their games with Wooster and STU and then been deserving of their #1 and #2 rankings they warrant in your opinion.  UST's losses to St. Olaf, Hamline and Carleton were the reason they were ranked #8 heading into the tournament.  In my eyes, they more than vindicated those losses with the wins the Tommies rattled off in the tournament. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 23, 2011, 08:43:01 PM
In (partial) defense of KnightSlappy, I do NOT believe the winner of the title is automatically #1 in a poll.  From d1, I would cite Villanova and NCSt. as teams that won the title but were definitely not the 'best' teams.  In d3, in 2006 I'm still convinced IWU was the 'best' team - they lost to Va Wes (by 2, I believe) and finished 3rd.  Lest I sound like TOO much of a homer, IWU won the d3 World Series this past year, but, having had a losing record with a week or two left in the regular season, even I would not vote them #1!  (But I can live with them getting hot and being the best team when it counted!!)

Having said that, when a team wins the title by 24 points, that is NOT the year I would choose to vote for someone else! ;)  And dropping Woo all the way to 6th (or 5th for another voter) required dropping them behind some teams they had JUST beaten.  In a situation like IWU and the CWS, that might make sense.  But Woo was not exactly chopped liver during the regular season.

I DID have Midd over Woo for 2nd, because that was a matter of scheduling (who faced the Tommies first), not of performance on the court - except Midd lost by 2, Woo lost by 24. :D

[If I don't post again tonight, I'm having terrible connectivity problems.  Firefox has seized up totally, and Explorer is jumping like crazy and giving me an ulcer! :o]
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 23, 2011, 10:31:47 PM

I'll defend KS as well.  I'm of the mind that almost never does the best team win a tournament like this.  Hardly ever happens.  That's why you play a tournament.

I do not feel compelled to vote the national champion #1.  I did this year simply because the last two weekends threw everything into chaos.

I still suspect Whitworth and Williams were the two best teams this year.  Both lost to Wooster (a team clearly among the best).  If either Whitworth or Williams played St. Thomas tomorrow would I pick either one to win?  Yes.  But if Wooster played St. Thomas tomorrow I'd be just as inclined to pick Wooster.  One game doesn't decide anything, but the national champion.

I gave credence to the tournament this year because so many of the best teams played each other.  Filling out a schedule with so many high quality opponents gives a very clear picture of a team's ability.

Wooster lacks some size, but Williams isn't much bigger.  Whitworth has better individual talent, but that doesn't always win games.

St. Thomas beat Stevens Point (the best team in their bracket) then took out Augustana (no slouch, who happened to be a tough matchup for the Tommies' strengths) - all this after taking out a very hot IWU squad.  Not to mention a win over the best defensive team in country (Middlebury).

They earned it.  They came in with a top ten resume and beat everybody.  Are they the best team in the country?  I'm not sure - but nobody made a better case this year.

One loss shouldn't preclude someone from being picked #1.  I'm all for that logic.  This year, for me, six wins topped the one loss (especially when it would have been a crap-shoot to pick which other team got the #1).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 23, 2011, 11:00:52 PM
From the Hoopsville board...
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 13, 2011, 11:20:08 PM
I propose that the 7 point home court advantage to the team hosting an opponent who has flown* applies in the Wooster-Whitworth  game as well.

This game is Wooster 69,  Whitworth 64 with 0:41 secs and Wooster's ball.  It becomes a frantic "3FGA and foul 'em" contest for Whitworth from there out.  Look how the 7-point Home Court Advantage changes the nature of the game from the play-by-play in the entire game.

http://www.woosterathletics.com/sports/mbkb/2010-11/boxscores/20110312_2wc5.xml?view=plays

(*3-time zones east as well)
I would have loved to see Whitworth and Wooster played at St Thomas or UWSP!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 23, 2011, 11:16:19 PM
BTW, Firefox loaded (without my consent) version 3.6.16 this morning after I posted the PP.  I was off-line the rest of the afternoon as it seized up EVERY time.  I tried to load firefox 4 from firefox; no dice.  I tried to load firefox 4 from Explorer; no dice.  My wife (the computer wizard of the family) thought she had it fixed around 8; no dice.  But she finally successfully loaded firefox 4 later this evening - it is as fast as promised!

Wives are a marvelous invention!! :o ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 23, 2011, 11:41:42 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 23, 2011, 11:16:19 PM
BTW, Firefox loaded (without my consent) version 3.6.16 this morning after I posted the PP.  I was off-line the rest of the afternoon as it seized up EVERY time.  I tried to load firefox 4 from firefox; no dice.  I tried to load firefox 4 from Explorer; no dice.  My wife (the computer wizard of the family) thought she had it fixed around 8; no dice.  But she finally successfully loaded firefox 4 later this evening - it is as fast as promised!

Wives are a marvelous invention!! :o ;D
I wish that I could meet Mrs Ypsi!  She would be worth the trip to snowbound Ypsilanti. :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 24, 2011, 01:12:59 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 23, 2011, 11:41:42 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 23, 2011, 11:16:19 PM
BTW, Firefox loaded (without my consent) version 3.6.16 this morning after I posted the PP.  I was off-line the rest of the afternoon as it seized up EVERY time.  I tried to load firefox 4 from firefox; no dice.  I tried to load firefox 4 from Explorer; no dice.  My wife (the computer wizard of the family) thought she had it fixed around 8; no dice.  But she finally successfully loaded firefox 4 later this evening - it is as fast as promised!

Wives are a marvelous invention!! :o ;D

I wish that I could meet Mrs Ypsi!  She would be worth the trip to snowbound Ypsilanti. :)

We're no longer snowbound - 8 straight days in the 40s-50s (and two in the 60s) will do that!  We've now gone back to winter temperature-wise, but we have hope. ;)

But we are rapidly approaching the seasons where I MUCH prefer our temperatures to yours! :D

Since I am already retired, and Mrs. Ypsi is retiring the end of April, we plan to travel a lot.  Just maybe we will make a 'snowbird' tour down your way. ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 24, 2011, 01:50:30 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 23, 2011, 02:00:00 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 23, 2011, 01:06:16 PM
I understand where you're coming from, O Dean, but I think that there is a qualitative difference between tournament games and regular season games, just as within the regular season there are qualitative differences between conference games and non-conference games. How do I know this? Because generations of basketball players have told me how the higher stakes and the win-or-go-home setup in March amp everything and everyone up and make it harder to play under control, much less win, in a tournament game than a regular-season game, all other factors being equal.

How much of a qualitative difference there is is certainly subject to debate, but I think that the difference is there.

Not all basketball games are created equal.



Wow, so it should have been easier for UST to play under control and win against St. Olaf, Hamline, and Carleton then. Should knocked them down more for not doing so.  :) ;) :D

Au contraire. It means that UST's efforts in March more than canceled out the team's three regular-season losses. Incidentally, none of those three was an egg-on-the-face defeat for the Tommies; Carleton was the MIAC co-champ with UST, finished 18-8, and barely missed out on a Pool C berth; Hamline finished third in the MIAC and posted a 16-11 record; and St. Olaf finished fourth and went 17-9 on the season. UST split with St. Olaf and Carleton, crushing the Oles in their other meeting, and took two out of three from Hamline. As to why UST's March run canceled out those three losses, not only were the games tougher in March by dint of the fact that they were tourney games, but as Hoops Fan pointed out the Tommies had a singularly rough path through the tourney to the title.

And as Chuck said (no, not the first paragraph, in which he guzzles the green kool-ade like it's going out of style ::) :D), a 24-point win in the championship game is a pretty serious exclamation point on UST's resume.

Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 23, 2011, 10:31:47 PMI'm of the mind that almost never does the best team win a tournament like this.  Hardly ever happens.

That's a little extreme, I think. If I had the time and inclination I could point to a lot of seasons in which the national champ was clearly the best team in the country. But there have certainly been a lot of seasons as well when it wasn't clear-cut. I'd have to say, though, that I can't think offhand of a D3 champ that was the equivalent of an '85 Villanova or an '83 NC State; i.e., a team that clearly wasn't the best in the field, but was merely the hottest over the final two weekends.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 24, 2011, 02:00:03 PM
As a Catholic grad, I'd be willing to concede that Catholic 2001 might be on that list for Division III. They did win at Clark in the Elite Eight, straight-up beat Ohio Northern in the semifinals on a neutral floor (No. 3, I believe, in our poll at the time) and then had a fantastic game plan and a ton of familiarity with William Paterson in the final, but it's conceivable they weren't the best team.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 24, 2011, 02:12:24 PM
The '01 Catholic team was the first one that popped into my head when I thought of champions whose status as the best team in the country was open to dispute, but I decided to wait and see first if our guru would offer up his alma mater as the sacrificial lamb. ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 24, 2011, 03:30:53 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 24, 2011, 02:12:24 PM
The '01 Catholic team was the first one that popped into my head when I thought of champions whose status as the best team in the country was open to dispute, but I decided to wait and see first if our guru would offer up his alma mater as the sacrificial lamb. ;)

Appreciate the deference but I think I've been pretty realistic about what a surprising and memorable run that was. We still have a doorstop and a banner in the Salem Civic Center every March. :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nescac1 on March 24, 2011, 03:48:31 PM
I think unless it is really an outlier you just have to give deference to head-to-head results.  If I was picking, today, and my life depended on it from every team I've seen play this year to win one game, I think I would go St. Thomas, Midd, Williams, VWU, Wooster, Amherst, in that order (I haven't seen Whitworth or Stevens Point, both of whom would be in the conversation as well, I'm sure).  But I still ranked Wooster above Williams in my final poll because, even though I think Williams beats them more than five times out of ten, ultimately, they won the game, no matter how it went down.  But I did feel comfortable putting Midd second because, as someone else noted, it is not Midd's fault they played St. Thomas before Wooster did.  Still, St. Thomas looked like the best team in the country to me at the Final Four, and what matters is how you are playing in late March, not mid-January. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on March 24, 2011, 08:41:40 PM
Sorry I missed the poll. Been hectic recently. Anything controversial come up?  ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: AO on March 24, 2011, 09:05:24 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 23, 2011, 12:39:39 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on March 23, 2011, 12:32:38 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 23, 2011, 12:13:35 PM
Why people put so much stock into tournament results mystifies me.

I know, it isn't like they issue a trophy at the end of it and declare a national champion or anything...   ;)

Are we running the poll to find out who just won the NC? If so I quit.  ;)
Why are you running a poll?  Do we want to emulate D-1 football?  Quitting would be a good option.  Besides, any poll that doesn't give a single vote to my squad despite their playoff performance against St. Thomas (led for 35min) isn't worth anything!!! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 25, 2011, 12:48:50 AM
Greg, I don't think I needed to 'guzzle' the green kool-ade to think IWU was the best team in 2006.  After all, Pat predicted the Titans would win, too.  A 2-point loss doesn't necessarily change that.  I never said they were DEFINITELY the best team, but I think they were the best team.

Just to make your head explode, I think they were also the best team in 1996.  It took Rowan (for whom the anti Prop 48 transfer rule was named) 2 put-backs on the final shot to win that game.

Ironically, the only trip to the FF by IWU that I'm NOT going to contest is 2001, which you and Pat both say may be a time that the best team didn't win.  We had absolutely no counter to Willie Pat's star; Catholic did.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: kiltedbryan on March 25, 2011, 01:13:25 AM
A few points to add to this debate...

Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 23, 2011, 02:29:00 PM
In 2005, Calvin lost to Rochester in the semis in Salem on a last second shot. Rochester went on to lose to UWSP in the finals, but Calvin was voted #2 (two spots ahead of Rochester) in the final d3hoops.com poll. Why? Because voters felt that Calvin was a better team that happened to get beat that day.

1. FWIW, this season was the second time that Wooster has finished #2 in the final d3hoops poll...the previous time was when the Fighting Scots were the "beneficiary" of a similar situation in their 2003 trip to the Final Four.  The Scots lost to eventual champion Williams by 2 pts in overtime in the semifinal, and then Williams dispatched tournament cinderella Gustavus Adolphus in the championship game the next day. I think the voters realized that the Gusties were on a magical run, and that Wooster was the second-best team at that Final Four (the Scots beat Hampden-Sydney in the consolation game), and the Scots got the nod in the final poll.

2. I voted all four final four teams as my 1-4 in my poll, but I was highly tempted to slot Whitworth (my #5) above some of the final four participants--heck, I was even tempted to slot them above Wooster, even though I saw Wooster beat them with my own two eyes just two weeks ago. That's just how impressive Whitworth was to me, a view that was reinforced by watching Michael Taylor be the best player on the floor at the DIII All-Star game in Salem.

3. I guess our group and the actual poll group are going to have to agree to disagree on Hope. I've had Hope in my poll for awhile. All of our 10 voters included Hope on their ballot and collectively we gave Hope more total points than they got from all 25 actual voters.

4. I felt like I had a rock-solid strong top seven, and you all agreed. Our collective top seven had only four votes that were outside the top seven (all of them for #7 Amherst). The top six got every single 1-6 vote but one, with one person having Amherst at #6. Even the top ten showed extremely strong agreement, as our top ten teams received all but three of the total available top ten votes. I think we have a pretty good feeling who the best teams in DII were this year.   :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 25, 2011, 09:51:29 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 25, 2011, 12:48:50 AM
We had absolutely no counter to Willie Pat's star; Catholic did.

Every March I have at least one beer to toast Tim Judge, the relatively unsung senior guard who held Horace Jenkins in check.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 25, 2011, 03:18:33 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 25, 2011, 12:48:50 AM
Greg, I don't think I needed to 'guzzle' the green kool-ade to think IWU was the best team in 2006.  After all, Pat predicted the Titans would win, too.  A 2-point loss doesn't necessarily change that.  I never said they were DEFINITELY the best team, but I think they were the best team.

Surprise, surprise. :D

As for Pat's prediction, keep in mind that that's what it was -- a prediction (i.e., a judgment made before the Final Four, not a postmortem made after it).

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 25, 2011, 12:48:50 AMJust to make your head explode, I think they were also the best team in 1996.

My cranium's not quite that incendiary, but, given your track record, my noggin would be much more likely to be the victim of a volatile incident if you had said that the Titans weren't the best team in 1996. ;)

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 25, 2011, 12:48:50 AMIt took Rowan (for whom the anti Prop 48 transfer rule was named) 2 put-backs on the final shot to win that game.

I didn't think you were even following D3 or IWU at that point. But the consensus I've heard from all of the objective observers I know who were there was that '96 Rowan was one of the greatest D3 teams ever assembled (however dubiously), and that it took an out-of-their-heads performance by what was a great IWU team in order to take the Profs down to the wire ... but that Rowan was, nevertheless, the best team there that year.

And, actually, my jocular "green kool-ade" remark was more about the way that you characteristically managed to stuff several sentences' worth of IWU lore into a post that was ostensibly about whether or not St. Thomas is a worthy #1, shoehorning a mention of IWU's '10 D3 baseball championship into the post as well. Sometimes I'm surprised that your posts don't contain hidden links that play the Illinois Wesleyan fight song when clicked upon. ;)

And, now that I've picked on you enough, let me thank you for once again running the Posters' Poll. Even though I didn't participate in the last couple of polls this season, I still enjoyed reading them and I appreciate the work that you put into it (including the cajoling necessary to get the number of participants up).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 25, 2011, 03:21:30 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 25, 2011, 09:51:29 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 25, 2011, 12:48:50 AM
We had absolutely no counter to Willie Pat's star; Catholic did.

Every March I have at least one beer to toast Tim Judge, the relatively unsung senior guard who held Horace Jenkins in check.
Sounds like the subject of a "10-years-later" where are they now off-season article.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 25, 2011, 10:21:11 PM
Greg, your suggestion of a secret link to play the IWU fight song sounds like a winner - I'll work on it! ;D

As to the inclusion of the 2010 d3 CWS, I readily confess I'm willing to mention that as often as possible! ::)  But do note WHY I included it in that post - it was the clearest example I was aware of where a title-winning team would NOT get my first place vote.  So it was hardly Titan chest-thumping. :P  (I don't follow d3 baseball nearly as closely as basketball or even football, but if I was running a baseball PP I'm not sure I would have had them even in the top ten on the final ballot. :o  In a way, that makes the title even sweeter than if they were Chapman or Cortland all along, but it doesn't make them the 'overall best' team.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 25, 2011, 10:57:32 PM
I knew that I was going to regret that bit about you linking the IWU fight song.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Titan Q on March 26, 2011, 09:00:00 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 25, 2011, 12:48:50 AM
Just to make your head explode, I think they were also the best team in 1996.  It took Rowan (for whom the anti Prop 48 transfer rule was named) 2 put-backs on the final shot to win that game.

This just is not accurate, Chuck.  The 1996 IWU team was one of the school's best non-Jack Sikma (NAIA) teams, but that Titan team was not better than Rowan.  The 1996 Rowan team - with 4 very good Division I transfer starters, and a "homegrown" star who was actually their best player - was the best NCAA Division III team I have ever seen.   IWU's performance that Friday evening in Salem was extremely impressive, but had the Titans won, it would have been an upset.  It would have been like a D3 team beating a good low D1 team (like an Ohio Valley championship-caliber team).

Without having seen the 1996 Rowan or IWU teams, not to mention the fact that you weren't even following Division III basketball then, I have absolutely no idea why you would make such a claim here.  This is the kind of post from you (of which there are way too many) that makes IWU fans cringe.  I know because I get the e-mails all season long.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on March 26, 2011, 10:16:51 AM
Uh oh Chuck...  Sounds like they might be thinking about taking away your green card...
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 27, 2011, 02:25:57 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on March 26, 2011, 09:00:00 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 25, 2011, 12:48:50 AM
Just to make your head explode, I think they were also the best team in 1996.  It took Rowan (for whom the anti Prop 48 transfer rule was named) 2 put-backs on the final shot to win that game.

This just is not accurate, Chuck.  The 1996 IWU team was one of the school's best non-Jack Sikma (NAIA) teams, but that Titan team was not better than Rowan.  The 1996 Rowan team - with 4 very good Division I transfer starters, and a "homegrown" star who was actually their best player - was the best NCAA Division III team I have ever seen.   IWU's performance that Friday evening in Salem was extremely impressive, but had the Titans won, it would have been an upset.  It would have been like a D3 team beating a good low D1 team (like an Ohio Valley championship-caliber team).

Without having seen the 1996 Rowan or IWU teams, not to mention the fact that you weren't even following Division III basketball then, I have absolutely no idea why you would make such a claim here.  This is the kind of post from you (of which there are way too many) that makes IWU fans cringe.  I know because I get the e-mails all season long.

Bob, I wasn't following baseball in 1920, either, but still think the Red Sox owner selling (not even trading for value, but selling!) their best player to the Yankees was despicable! ;)  Pretty much all I know about Rowan/IWU is from Coach Bridges' book.  I will yield to consensus opinion that Rowan was probably the better team overall, with one caveat: while the way they assembled was within the rules then in place, it was deemed so against the philosophy of d3 that the prop-48 loophole was closed the very next season (and is generally termed the 'Rowan rule').  Thus I will stand by my conclusion that IWU was probably the best 'real' D3 team in 1996. ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 27, 2011, 08:38:26 PM
Following up on two points:

IWU was within ONE defensive rebound late of winning the game, in which case this whole scenario would be long forgotten. :(  Coach Bridges quotes a Roanoke fan who when asked if Hope could beat Rowan the next night replied: "Not a chance, Rowan just beat the best Division III team I've ever seen."  (In fairness, the fan had probably seen IWU lead the #1-seeded home-team Roanoke by FORTY-SEVEN points at halftime just 7 days earlier [no Titan starter saw a single minute of playing time in the second half] - perhaps not a neutral observer! :P)

The topic of the 1996 FF has come up on the MIAA board several times.  My Hope friends and I both agree that a Hope/IWU final would have been more fitting for d3 (though somehow we can't seem to reach a consensus on who would have won ;D)!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 27, 2011, 09:01:13 PM
One last thing on the d1 comparisons - since this year for the first time ever there will not be a #1 OR #2 seed in the FF, we may well get a new example to join Villanova and NCSt.!  (Though maybe not - they both beat a prohibitive favorite to win.)

I have no particular dog in the fight, but if the winner of Butler/VCU absolutely crushes the winner of Kentucky/UConn, I will have tears of joy streaming down my face! ;D  What a triumph of the 'little guys' that would be! :o
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 27, 2011, 09:13:47 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 27, 2011, 09:01:13 PM
One last thing on the d1 comparisons - since this year for the first time ever there will not be a #1 OR #2 seed in the FF, we may well get a new example to join Villanova and NCSt.!  (Though maybe not - they both beat a prohibitive favorite to win.)

I have no particular dog in the fight, but if the winner of Butler/VCU absolutely crushes the winner of Kentucky/UConn, I will have tears of joy streaming down my face! ;D  What a triumph of the 'little guys' that would be! :o
I will, too.  The parity in D-1 has become incredible.  I have a hard time figuring whether I want Butler ("Hoosiers" fame) or VCU (from First Four to Final Four) to win.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 27, 2011, 11:18:51 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 27, 2011, 09:13:47 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 27, 2011, 09:01:13 PM
One last thing on the d1 comparisons - since this year for the first time ever there will not be a #1 OR #2 seed in the FF, we may well get a new example to join Villanova and NCSt.!  (Though maybe not - they both beat a prohibitive favorite to win.)

I have no particular dog in the fight, but if the winner of Butler/VCU absolutely crushes the winner of Kentucky/UConn, I will have tears of joy streaming down my face! ;D  What a triumph of the 'little guys' that would be! :o
I will, too.  The parity in D-1 has become incredible.  I have a hard time figuring whether I want Butler ("Hoosiers" fame) or VCU (from First Four to Final Four) to win.


I share your indecision, but VCU would be the first team in history to play SEVEN games in the tourney, so I think I'll favor them (slightly). :D

Although Kentucky won their conference tourney, I believe this will also be the first FF without a regular season champion (or did Butler win the Horizon League?).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on March 28, 2011, 01:06:26 AM
Butler was in a 3-way tie for the Horizon championship with Cleveland State and UW - Milwaukee.

Amazingly, they lost 62-60 to Youngstown State - a team that went 9-21 during the season.

VCU finished 4th in the CAA! They also lost by 10 to a 12-19 Georgia State team and lost by 11 at 11-20 Northeastern.

UConn, if people forget, played in the Big East play-in play-in game.

Kentucky is the only one that doesn't have a big backstory, except that Princeton almost beat 'em in Round 1.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 28, 2011, 09:30:24 AM

If VCU faces Kentucky in the final, VCU will have played a team from each of the Big-6 conference during the tournament (plus Butler).

That's a pretty amazing proof that the smaller conference schools can hang with the big boys.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on March 28, 2011, 10:26:46 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 27, 2011, 09:13:47 PM

I will, too.  The parity in D-1 has become incredible.  I have a hard time figuring whether I want Butler ("Hoosiers" fame) or VCU (from First Four to Final Four) to win.


Is it parity or is the D1 talent pool just so watered down because so many 'star' players opt for the NBA early.

Look at the last 3 NBA drafts and count the number of Seniors drafted in round 1.

http://www.nbadraft.net/nba_draft_history/index.html
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: gordonmann on March 28, 2011, 12:51:31 PM
Most pundits I've heard say it's the latter - the talent level is down.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: ziggy on March 28, 2011, 04:13:11 PM
I watched the I regional action with interest given last week's discussion regarding ranking the best teams and tournament results. Are Butler and VCU the best teams in their regions? The argument can be made both ways.

A local radio show put up a question on facebook asking whether or not the final four represents the best four teams in the country. The first response struck me as relevant to what we discussed here:
Quoteno, probably not, and that's the point. we're so obsessed with finding the "best" team (ahem, bcs), instead of just finding a champion. it's what makes this tournament and the playoffs of other sports so intriguing. no one really thinks the 2007 giants were a better team than the 2007 patriots...they just beat them in one game and it was awesome.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: (509)Rat on March 28, 2011, 07:25:42 PM
Quote from: sac on March 28, 2011, 10:26:46 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 27, 2011, 09:13:47 PM

I will, too. The parity in D-1 has become incredible.  I have a hard time figuring whether I want Butler ("Hoosiers" fame) or VCU (from First Four to Final Four) to win.


Is it parity or is the D1 talent pool just so watered down because so many 'star' players opt for the NBA early.
Look at the last 3 NBA drafts and count the number of Seniors drafted in round 1.

http://www.nbadraft.net/nba_draft_history/index.html

Parity is Parity. Doesn't matter how it came about...

I agree with almost everything Bilas says, so I'd second gordonmann's post. And I'd also agree with the post ziggy quoted. The best team doesn't always win the tourney. That's why it is so popular.

Saw a funny line from a SI writer...If college basketball used the BCS, Ohio State and Kansas would be playing in the title game. VCU and Butler would be facing off in the Las Vegas Bowl  :D


[EDIT] Completely off topic, but Whitworth head coach Jim Hayford has been reported as the new head coach for the Eagles of Eastern Washington University (Big Sky). I'm assuming d3hoops will link the final press release from the Spokesman at some point, but you can read the current article posted in the NWC thread.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: ziggy on April 05, 2011, 08:00:41 PM
UConn may have won the tournament but they didn't get all the number one votes in the final ESPN/USA Today poll: http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/polls?poll=3
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on December 20, 2011, 05:36:22 AM
Mr. Y,

Will the first Posters' Poll be for the week ending January 1st or January 8th?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 20, 2011, 09:06:51 AM
Quote from: magicman on December 20, 2011, 05:36:22 AM
Mr. Y,

Will the first Posters' Poll be for the week ending January 1st or January 8th?

I was thinking more like the 15th, but I guess I could put in the work a week early if necessary.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 20, 2011, 10:08:38 AM
Let's start with games thru the 8th.  I'll try to have it completed by the 10th.

New voters are welcome to join in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 02, 2012, 09:41:09 PM
Reminder to potential voters (hopefully MANY potential voters! ;D) to start studying up.  The first poll of the season will be this weekend.  As before, I hope to get results out by Tuesday evening, so please PM me by 6pm EST on Tuesday.  (There are usually very few games on Sunday that would affect the rankings, so preliminary ballots can usually be done early.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 02, 2012, 10:55:34 PM
In when I can be in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 03, 2012, 11:10:48 AM
Giddy-yap!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 05, 2012, 11:08:09 AM
Is it faux pas to discuss our preliminary ballots?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 05, 2012, 02:21:28 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 05, 2012, 11:08:09 AM
Is it faux pas to discuss our preliminary ballots?
Why should it be? Discussion is healthy and informative. If you know something that I'm not aware of, that would influence my ballot, then I'd love to hear it. 8-)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hugenerd on January 05, 2012, 06:11:02 PM
Quote from: magicman on January 05, 2012, 02:21:28 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 05, 2012, 11:08:09 AM
Is it faux pas to discuss our preliminary ballots?
Why should it be? Discussion is healthy and informative. If you know something that I'm not aware of, that would influence my ballot, then I'd love to hear it. 8-)

MIT is the best team in the country ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 05, 2012, 07:04:21 PM
Quote from: Hugenerd on January 05, 2012, 06:11:02 PM
Quote from: magicman on January 05, 2012, 02:21:28 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 05, 2012, 11:08:09 AM
Is it faux pas to discuss our preliminary ballots?
Why should it be? Discussion is healthy and informative. If you know something that I'm not aware of, that would influence my ballot, then I'd love to hear it. 8-)

MIT is the best team in the country ;)
A Red Kool Aid drinker. ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 05, 2012, 08:06:03 PM
I'd like to re-extend an invitation to Hugenerd to join us as a voter this year (unless you follow ONLY the northeast).  While I suspect you may not be alone anyway (no, that is not a guarantee that I'm voting for MIT, though I'll consider it ;), you could assure that MIT gets at least one first place vote. 8-)

(Of course, if they somehow go on a 5-game losing streak and you STILL put them #1, your ballot will be disallowed!)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 05, 2012, 09:26:02 PM
I was fishing through some efficiency calculations this afternoon and Whitewater is probably underrated along with CMS.  Franklin and Marshall is probably way overrated.

I know people are a little down on the CCIW as a whole (rightfully actually) but like Q has said on the top 25 board, Augustana, IWU and Wheaton are very good teams.  IWU and Wheaton both fall solidly in the top 20 in efficiency.


Quote from: Hugenerd on January 05, 2012, 06:11:02 PM
MIT is the best team in the country ;)

I actually don't think he's far off.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 06, 2012, 08:30:19 AM
MIT might not be in my top 25 right now. And by might not, I mean isn't.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 06, 2012, 09:11:35 AM
An under-the-radar team could be Adrian. It would be a tall, tall task, but if they knock off Hope on the road on Saturday, they'll be in my Top 25.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hugenerd on January 06, 2012, 09:28:00 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 05, 2012, 08:06:03 PM
I'd like to re-extend an invitation to Hugenerd to join us as a voter this year (unless you follow ONLY the northeast).  While I suspect you may not be alone anyway (no, that is not a guarantee that I'm voting for MIT, though I'll consider it ;), you could assure that MIT gets at least one first place vote. 8-)

(Of course, if they somehow go on a 5-game losing streak and you STILL put them #1, your ballot will be disallowed!)

I follow the whole country, I played in the UAA a few years back and I know the Coach at Caltech, so I have some rooting interests across the country, but dont have time to work on a poll currently. Thanks for the offer, though, I will try to contribute in the future if time allows.

Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 06, 2012, 08:30:19 AM
MIT might not be in my top 25 right now. And by might not, I mean isn't.

Thats your choice, but outside of their first game, MIT has had more impressive performances against common opponents when compared to Middlebury.  If you look at Massey, MITs SOS is similar to VA Wesleyan, Amherst, Williams, Middlebury, F&M, and so on.  In addition to that, they lead the country in scoring margin, last I checked.

Other than being stubborn, I dont know how you cant see them as a top 25 team, considering they won an NCAA game last year (and nearly beat Rochester to make the round of 16) and this year they return their 1st team AA, with all 5 of their starters having at least 3 years of experience together.  Your opinion also does not appear to be shared by the voters who actually count.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 06, 2012, 09:43:34 AM
Quote from: Hugenerd on January 06, 2012, 09:28:00 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 06, 2012, 08:30:19 AM
MIT might not be in my top 25 right now. And by might not, I mean isn't.

Thats your choice, but outside of their first game, MIT has had more impressive performances against common opponents when compared to Middlebury.  If you look at Massey, MITs SOS is similar to VA Wesleyan, Amherst, Williams, Middlebury, F&M, and so on.  In addition to that, they lead the country in scoring margin, last I checked.

Other than being stubborn, I dont know how you cant see them as a top 25 team, considering they won an NCAA game last year (and nearly beat Rochester to make the round of 16) and this year they return their 1st team AA, with all 5 of their starters having at least 3 years of experience together.  Your opinion also does not appear to be shared by the voters who actually count.

Good thing none of those others are currently in my top 25 either then!

Massey has MIT at #17, and he uses MOV. My system (which is significantly more flawed than his in all likelyhood) doesn't use MOV, so it's not all that surprising that I'd have them on the outside.

No voters actually count. This isn't FBS Football.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 06, 2012, 09:45:17 AM
Of course he uses MOV. It's a legit data point. He also uses the law of diminishing returns, so pounding some hapless foe by 79 won't help.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 06, 2012, 09:50:26 AM
Quote from: smedindy on January 06, 2012, 09:45:17 AM
Of course he uses MOV. It's a legit data point. He also uses the law of diminishing returns, so pounding some hapless foe by 79 won't help.

I'd love to use MOV, but I'm not set up for that right now. Maybe in the future. Actually, I'd like to use a tempo-free MOV that's adjusted for quality of opponent, but that will take significantly more work. I Massey has Grinnell highly overrated because his MOV is not adjusted for tempo. A 10 point win for them isn't the same as a 10 point win for everyone else.

My #1 objective is to pick criteria and apply it equally to everyone, even if I know it has some obvious flaws.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 06, 2012, 10:26:08 AM
A. I wish Pomeroy did D-3 as well.
B. If Grinnell is the only real outlier (unless someone is playing a total stall game), then I think it's a pretty nifty system.
C. I use power rankings, but also my own intuition, so I'm not chained to the numbers.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hugenerd on January 06, 2012, 11:46:38 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 06, 2012, 09:43:34 AM
Quote from: Hugenerd on January 06, 2012, 09:28:00 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 06, 2012, 08:30:19 AM
MIT might not be in my top 25 right now. And by might not, I mean isn't.

Thats your choice, but outside of their first game, MIT has had more impressive performances against common opponents when compared to Middlebury.  If you look at Massey, MITs SOS is similar to VA Wesleyan, Amherst, Williams, Middlebury, F&M, and so on.  In addition to that, they lead the country in scoring margin, last I checked.

Other than being stubborn, I dont know how you cant see them as a top 25 team, considering they won an NCAA game last year (and nearly beat Rochester to make the round of 16) and this year they return their 1st team AA, with all 5 of their starters having at least 3 years of experience together.  Your opinion also does not appear to be shared by the voters who actually count.

Good thing none of those others are currently in my top 25 either then!

Massey has MIT at #17, and he uses MOV. My system (which is significantly more flawed than his in all likelyhood) doesn't use MOV, so it's not all that surprising that I'd have them on the outside.

No voters actually count. This isn't FBS Football.

I meant people whose vote count for the official poll, I agree that NCAA selection has different criteria than the Top 25 poll, but since we are talking about a poll on this board, those who 'count' are those who vote on the official poll.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: augie_superfan on January 06, 2012, 12:23:37 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 06, 2012, 09:50:26 AM
Quote from: smedindy on January 06, 2012, 09:45:17 AM
Of course he uses MOV. It's a legit data point. He also uses the law of diminishing returns, so pounding some hapless foe by 79 won't help.

I'd love to use MOV, but I'm not set up for that right now. Maybe in the future. Actually, I'd like to use a tempo-free MOV that's adjusted for quality of opponent, but that will take significantly more work. I Massey has Grinnell highly overrated because his MOV is not adjusted for tempo. A 10 point win for them isn't the same as a 10 point win for everyone else.

My #1 objective is to pick criteria and apply it equally to everyone, even if I know it has some obvious flaws.

Massey has 2 ratings listed on his site.  One doesn't take winning into account, only MOV and the other adds in some value for winning the game.  I'm not 100% sure that either uses any type of dimishing returns.  He does, however, make an adjustment for the game score, similar to what a tempo adjustment would do.

My system has a score related adjustment also.  This was primarily added to combat Grinnell-type teams but also works in favor of teams that play at a very slow pace.  Now, I only had last year's data with which to determine what magnitude of an adjustment there should be so after this year, hopefully I'll have a better feel for that.  For example, a 20 point win would give these different "credits" to a winner depending on the total score of both teams:

Total   "Credit"

100       21.5   
140       18.6
180       17.1
220       16.0

This should not be confused as a diminishing return because if that margin was 40 instead of 20, all of these numbers would just about be doubled.  Diminishing returns wouldn't scale like that directly.

My system has Grinnell ranked 15th as of today.  Maybe they are a bit overrated in my system but I'm pretty comfortable with them being in that range.

I've been working on a Pomeroy-style ranking system but unfortunately getting the box scores for every game is just not feasible for me.  I've just been playing around with my system with the CCIW conference games only to see if I can get anything useful.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 06, 2012, 01:01:16 PM
Massey definitely does use diminishing returns.

You can tell that his system has a hard time with Grinnell because they have the #1 offense and #410 defense. That's probably not really true (perhaps it is though), I'll go get some numbers.

Not knocking the Massey system at all, it's the best that's out there IMO (love augie_superfan's rankings as well). I love any ranking/ratings that attempts to look at teams by applying consistent criteria across the board. I don't usually love top 25 polls so much.


... OK so Grinnell's Offensive Efficiency Rating is 121.9 That's probably up there with the better teams in the country. Their Defensive Efficiency Rating is 101.5 which isn't so bad. Probably a touch below average (no adjustment here for quality of competition). +20.4 in efficiency margin is very, very good. I did some work on efficiency margin and winning percentage correlation for MIAA games in the offseason. +20 in margin would net a team about 25 wins in a 28 game season.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: augie_superfan on January 06, 2012, 01:11:12 PM
What are people's take on a team like Williams?  Obviously a good team but they have had a lot of injuries early on which most likely has affected their results.  Do you rank the team based on how they would've performed without those injuries or do you make them first prove that they are back at that high level before moving them back up in the rankings.

I myself want to see them prove that they are healthy and back performing at a top 10 level before I'd put them there.  What are people's feelings on that?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 06, 2012, 01:16:07 PM
Grinnell's always been a tough nut to crack, because of how they play. Certainly they've been successful but Top 25 voters don't seem convinced right now that they're all that and bag of three-pointers. Most rating systems aren't designed to really accommodate their unique style, since it's such an outlier. Normally that won't matter much but they're a team that deserves to be in the consideration for rankings, so everyone needs to reckon with them.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 06, 2012, 01:17:35 PM
Quote from: augie_superfan on January 06, 2012, 01:11:12 PM
What are people's take on a team like Williams?  Obviously a good team but they have had a lot of injuries early on which most likely has affected their results.  Do you rank the team based on how they would've performed without those injuries or do you make them first prove that they are back at that high level before moving them back up in the rankings.

I myself want to see them prove that they are healthy and back performing at a top 10 level before I'd put them there.  What are people's feelings on that?

Realistically, you can only rank on what has happened thus far, which is why I think we're wise to not rank until now. Projection can be a bit dangerous, but with Williams you may need to factor that in somewhat. However, I think I'll weigh what has happened more than what could have happened. Besides, other teams have had some injury issues as well.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 06, 2012, 01:29:05 PM
Re: Williams.  My thinking is pretty much the same.  A few years ago Wheaton was very highly ranked, then Kent Raymond got hurt.  With him out, they lost two games (plus his first game back when he was clearly not yet 100%).  I dropped them accordingly, but rose them back up faster than I otherwise would have (i.e., I discounted somewhat their overall record due to the absence of the NPOY candidate).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 06, 2012, 03:56:28 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 06, 2012, 09:11:35 AM
An under-the-radar team could be Adrian. It would be a tall, tall task, but if they knock off Hope on the road on Saturday, they'll be in my Top 25.

Wooster 75 Adrian 50  - my eyebrow does not cock high enough.   ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 06, 2012, 04:11:14 PM
Quote from: sac on January 06, 2012, 03:56:28 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 06, 2012, 09:11:35 AM
An under-the-radar team could be Adrian. It would be a tall, tall task, but if they knock off Hope on the road on Saturday, they'll be in my Top 25.

Wooster 75 Adrian 50  - my eyebrow does not cock high enough.   ;)

No Eric Lewis in the starting lineup. No Richaud Pack. No Cody Barnes. No Wes Reed.

Remember, I also presupposed a road win over Hope, who I'd consider Top 15 even if they do lose to Adrian.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 06, 2012, 05:26:07 PM
As we said, can't really say 'what if' unless they prove 'what if' if the what ifs become reality. Or something...
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 06, 2012, 09:09:28 PM
Quote from: smedindy on January 06, 2012, 01:16:07 PM
Grinnell's always been a tough nut to crack, because of how they play. Certainly they've been successful but Top 25 voters don't seem convinced right now that they're all that and bag of three-pointers. Most rating systems aren't designed to really accommodate their unique style, since it's such an outlier. Normally that won't matter much but they're a team that deserves to be in the consideration for rankings, so everyone needs to reckon with them.

Part of the reason they haven't gotten any love in the Top 25 is that they've gotten destroyed when they've played quality opponents.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 06, 2012, 09:36:32 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on January 06, 2012, 09:09:28 PM
Quote from: smedindy on January 06, 2012, 01:16:07 PM
Grinnell's always been a tough nut to crack, because of how they play. Certainly they've been successful but Top 25 voters don't seem convinced right now that they're all that and bag of three-pointers. Most rating systems aren't designed to really accommodate their unique style, since it's such an outlier. Normally that won't matter much but they're a team that deserves to be in the consideration for rankings, so everyone needs to reckon with them.

Part of the reason they haven't gotten any love in the Top 25 is that they've gotten destroyed when they've played quality opponents.

Ah, but they are supposed to go by THIS year by now.  THIS year Grinnell is undefeated. 8-)

(But, yes, I suspect you are correct: "The System" tends not to work against high-quality opponents, and they do still play the system. ;))
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 07, 2012, 02:34:58 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 06, 2012, 09:36:32 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on January 06, 2012, 09:09:28 PM
Quote from: smedindy on January 06, 2012, 01:16:07 PM
Grinnell's always been a tough nut to crack, because of how they play. Certainly they've been successful but Top 25 voters don't seem convinced right now that they're all that and bag of three-pointers. Most rating systems aren't designed to really accommodate their unique style, since it's such an outlier. Normally that won't matter much but they're a team that deserves to be in the consideration for rankings, so everyone needs to reckon with them.

Part of the reason they haven't gotten any love in the Top 25 is that they've gotten destroyed when they've played quality opponents.

Ah, but they are supposed to go by THIS year by now.  THIS year Grinnell is undefeated. 8-)

(But, yes, I suspect you are correct: "The System" tends not to work against high-quality opponents, and they do still play the system. ;))

Yep... whether it's a good system team or a bad system team, there are ways to beat it.

For one, if you don't turn the ball over too much, then you're going to hurt the system pretty badly.  And good teams find a way to take care of the ball against anyone.

It's really just like going against any other full court press, high velocity team... it doesn't really matter that they throw the extra System wrinkles in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 07, 2012, 12:17:27 PM

I just realized, this is the 7th year we've been doing a poster's poll.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: frodotwo on January 07, 2012, 01:26:56 PM
One more year for the Doctorate? ::)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: wooscotsfan on January 07, 2012, 01:44:44 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 06, 2012, 04:11:14 PM
Quote from: sac on January 06, 2012, 03:56:28 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 06, 2012, 09:11:35 AM
An under-the-radar team could be Adrian. It would be a tall, tall task, but if they knock off Hope on the road on Saturday, they'll be in my Top 25.

Wooster 75 Adrian 50  - my eyebrow does not cock high enough.   ;)

No Eric Lewis in the starting lineup. No Richaud Pack. No Cody Barnes. No Wes Reed.

Remember, I also presupposed a road win over Hope, who I'd consider Top 15 even if they do lose to Adrian.

I agree with Sac that Adrian does not deserve to be ranked...even IF they beat Hope, IMO

I watched Wooster play that game AT Adrian and they totally dominated the boards 50 to 31 in the game because Adrian has a small front line.  The missing Adrian guys would not have made any difference on the boards.  Adrian had their one 6'7" player in the lineup vs. Wooster's three "bigs" and 6'8" Jake Mays pulled down 13 boards in the game for the Scots.

Speaking of unranked teams, why is Ohio Wesleyan at 11-1 not in the Top 25 especially given the NCAC's strong record so far this season?  ::) ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 07, 2012, 05:14:37 PM
Quote from: wooscotsfan on January 07, 2012, 01:44:44 PM
Speaking of unranked teams, why is Ohio Wesleyan at 11-1 not in the Top 25 especially given the NCAC's strong record so far this season?

I had them at 18 until they lost today.  Now I'm not sure what to do.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: wooscotsfan on January 07, 2012, 07:03:08 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 07, 2012, 05:14:37 PM
Quote from: wooscotsfan on January 07, 2012, 01:44:44 PM
Speaking of unranked teams, why is Ohio Wesleyan at 11-1 not in the Top 25 especially given the NCAC's strong record so far this season?

I had them at 18 until they lost today.  Now I'm not sure what to do.

Yes, no Top 25 for OWU now as today they dropped a close game 57-55 to a tough Wittenberg squad.  NCAC is tough this year because Wabash 12-1, Wooster 10-2, Wittenberg 10-3 and OWU 11-2 are all strong teams that will give each other losses.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 07, 2012, 07:18:55 PM
OWU will still be in my Top 25, perhaps. We'll see.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 07, 2012, 07:54:54 PM
Quote from: wooscotsfan on January 07, 2012, 01:44:44 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 06, 2012, 04:11:14 PM
Quote from: sac on January 06, 2012, 03:56:28 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 06, 2012, 09:11:35 AM
An under-the-radar team could be Adrian. It would be a tall, tall task, but if they knock off Hope on the road on Saturday, they'll be in my Top 25.

Wooster 75 Adrian 50  - my eyebrow does not cock high enough.   ;)

No Eric Lewis in the starting lineup. No Richaud Pack. No Cody Barnes. No Wes Reed.

Remember, I also presupposed a road win over Hope, who I'd consider Top 15 even if they do lose to Adrian.

I agree with Sac that Adrian does not deserve to be ranked...even IF they beat Hope, IMO

I watched Wooster play that game AT Adrian and they totally dominated the boards 50 to 31 in the game because Adrian has a small front line.  The missing Adrian guys would not have made any difference on the boards.  Adrian had their one 6'7" player in the lineup vs. Wooster's three "bigs" and 6'8" Jake Mays pulled down 13 boards in the game for the Scots.

Dennis Mason has been missing all year and while not big, he's athletic and a good leaper, he would make a difference on the boards.  He played his first game of the season today and was Adrian's leading rebounder with 8.  What doesn't show up in the stats is number of times he keeps balls alive that his teammates eventually end up with.

As KS also pointed out, Adrian has had a number of guys in and out from injury and a late addition of Richaud Pack, today's version of the Bulldogs was much different than the one Wooster faced.

They aren't top 25 material just now, but they could be a heck of a good team by the end of this season.


My eyebrow is less cocked. :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 08, 2012, 01:00:02 PM

I have three NCAC teams in my top-25 right now, none of them is Wooster.  Just not impressed with what they've done so far.

I feel decently confident with 1-19 right now.  Those last six are a messy toss-up.  This is part of the reason why I was hoping to wait another week before starting the poll.

Also, I take credit for all the losses yesterday.  I tried to get a jump on the poll and started doing research at about 1pm EST.  Then teams kept losing and screwing me up.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 08, 2012, 02:29:52 PM
When are our ballots due?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 08, 2012, 03:30:04 PM
Quote from: smedindy on January 08, 2012, 02:29:52 PM
When are our ballots due?

4 PM today. ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 08, 2012, 03:31:32 PM
Just kidding . I think Mr. Y wants them by Tuesday evning at the latest, but Monday evening would be even better.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 08, 2012, 04:20:51 PM

My ballot is in.

It's a mess, but it's something to work with.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 08, 2012, 10:33:24 PM
3 ballots in and tabulated, and already 36 teams mentioned!  15 teams on all three; 12 'orphans'.

Keep 'em coming - I ain't crying uncle unless we exceed 50! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 09, 2012, 04:04:29 PM
IN!!!  8-)

Pretty sure I'll have a few outliers, still fun to look through a bunch of teams.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 09, 2012, 04:13:50 PM
I started with a list of about 47, via Massey and the D-3 Top 25. I think I have a decent Top 25, but games are played, scores are kept, and perceptions either become reality or delusion.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 09, 2012, 06:14:56 PM
We're now up to 7 ballots, with 41 teams mentioned (currently only 3 orphans; down to 10 named on all ballots).

There's still about 26 hours (extension if requested) to get them in.  Quite a number of past voters not yet heard from (and only one new voter so far) - let's see if we can hit 15+!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: augie_superfan on January 09, 2012, 07:51:57 PM
Did you get mine Ypsi?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 09, 2012, 08:34:27 PM
Quote from: augie_superfan on January 09, 2012, 07:51:57 PM
Did you get mine Ypsi?

Yeah, you're the 'one new voter' - hopefully you won't be the only one! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: littleeastguy on January 09, 2012, 08:35:33 PM
I am also new.  I sent mine in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 09, 2012, 09:31:50 PM
I'll work on one... Need to put the boys to bed first though
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 09, 2012, 10:34:57 PM
Quote from: littleeastguy on January 09, 2012, 08:35:33 PM
I am also new.  I sent mine in.

It's now almost two hours, and I haven't received it.  My experience with the internal PM is that it is virtually instantaneous.  Have you successfully sent PMs before?  I know the site has a minimum number of posts before you can send PMs, but forget what the number is.

Try sending me another PM, but my email (2nd choice, but if necessary) is cabonney@netscape.net.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 10, 2012, 01:06:51 AM
I'll see if I can finish scraping one together tomorrow. Too tired to get it all finalized tonight.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 10, 2012, 05:45:22 PM
We now stand at ten ballots.  Many long time voters not yet heard from!

I'd prefer to 'publish' in the next few hours, but Greg would be broadcasting tonite, so I may wait to hear from him.  Others?  (Long time or newbie; if you follow hoops nationally, you're more than welcome.)

Most poll positions are still WIDE open races!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 10, 2012, 07:38:27 PM
I'll have one coming in about an hour or so.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 10, 2012, 09:18:22 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 10, 2012, 05:45:22 PM
We now stand at ten ballots.  Many long time voters not yet heard from!

I'd prefer to 'publish' in the next few hours, but Greg would be broadcasting tonite, so I may wait to hear from him.

I only broadcast NPU's home games, Chuck. I'm back here in Chicago watching the Vikings on the computer. I want to wait another week or two before I submit a ballot, if that's alright with you.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 10, 2012, 09:54:45 PM
My poll is finally in. Sorry to be so late. I'll do better next week. Mr. Ypsi is right in the middle of a barnburner between IWU and Augie. It'll be a while befor the results get posted i'm sure. ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 10, 2012, 11:38:01 PM
Posters' Poll, games thru 1-8-12:

1.  UWW           264 (1,1,2,2,3,3,4,4,5,8,8,9)
2.  Middlebury    258 (1,1,1,1,1,2,2,2,5,7,8,23)
t3. MIT            244 (1,1,2,2,3,3,3,4,6,8,9,-)
t3. Va Wes        244 (1,2,2,2,3,3,4,5,5,6,11,24)
5.  Hope           240 (1,1,3,3,5,6,7,7,8,9,11,11)
6.  Whitworth    204 (4,6,6,7,7,8,9,10,10,13,13,15)
7.  Emory          200 (2,4,4,4,5,6,8,9,10,17,17,-)
8.  CMS             188 (2,3,6,6,10,11,11,13,13,15,16,18)
9.  Wabash         185 (5,5,6,8,8,9,12,13,14,14,16,17)
10  UMHB           178 (5,7,7,8,9,11,11,11,12,12,16,25)
11  F & M           177 (3,4,6,7,7,10,10,12,13,14,22,-)
12  Amherst        172 (4,5,5,7,8,9,10,12,16,19,19,-)
13  Augie            155 (6,6,7,9,11,11,12,14,14,15,-,-)
14  UWSP           119 (4,9,10,12,13,14,15,19,19,-,-,-)
15  IWU              104 (9,10,10,12,15,16,18,20,23,24,25,-)
16  Williams        101 (10,12,13,14,14,16,17,18,19,-,-,-)
17  RIC               90 (7,13,14,14,16,17,18,20,25,-,-,-)
18  Wooster        85 (12,13,14,15,16,17,20,21,21,-,-,-)
19  Cabrini          76 (15,16,16,16,18,18,19,20,20,-,-,-)
t20 H-Simmons    59 (5,15,17,21,21,22,22.-,-,-,-,-)
t20 Grinnell          59 (4,14,15,21,22,22,25,-,-,-,-,-)
22  WPI              51 (3,11,18,21,-,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)
23  E. Conn         50 (9,12,16,17,-,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)
24  Wheaton,IL    44 (13,18,20,21,22,22,24,24,-,-,-,-)
25  W. Conn        38 (13,15,20,22,23,25,-,-,-,-,-,-)

26  Puget Sound   34 (14,17,20,21,24)
t27 OWU             31 (12,19,21,23,25,25)
t27 Lake Forest    31 (10,17,20)         
29  Lycoming        29 (8,18,23)
30  WashU          28 (15,19,19,23)
31  Buff St.         26 (18,19,19,23,25)
32  Willy Pat        21 (11,22,24)
33  Witt              19 (18,21,23,24,25)
t34 Birm-S           16 (17,19)
t34 UWRF            16 (17,22,23)
t36 Oswego         15 (20,22,23,24)
t36 St.Thomas     15 (18,24,24,24,25)
38  Bethany         12 (21,22,23)
39  Transy            9 (20,24,25)
40  Ripon              6 (20)
41  Rochester        5 (21)
42  RHIT               1 (25)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 11, 2012, 08:27:40 AM
I cast a vote for William Paterson, but I don't see them on the list anywhere. I also voted for Eastern Conn. and at a ranking that isn't listed next to their name.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 11, 2012, 09:09:32 AM
Interesting poll results. Not sure I understand some of the placements, though. Would like to hear some of the reasons for these votes, if possible.


Middlebury #23.  This 1 vote cost Middlebury the #1 ranking. (They could have been ranked 16th and would be #1)

Va Wesleyan   #24     Just wondering if its the same voter that gave Middlebury it's #23 vote. Hope they understand that we do list the team we think is the best as #1 and not #25.

MIT received no ranking by one voter.  Left off on purpose or perhaps inadvertently?

WPI #3  seems pretty high

Eastern Connecticut   #8 also seems pretty high

   
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 11, 2012, 09:25:50 AM
Quote from: magicman on January 11, 2012, 09:09:32 AM
Interesting poll results. Not sure I understand some of the placements, though. Would like to hear some of the reasons for these votes, if possible.


Middlebury #23.  This 1 vote cost Middlebury the #1 ranking. (They could have been ranked 16th and would be #1)

Va Wesleyan   #24     Just wondering if its the same voter that gave Middlebury it's #23 vote. Hope they understand that we do list the team we think is the best as #1 and not #25.

MIT received no ranking by one voter.  Left off on purpose or perhaps inadvertently?

WPI #3  seems pretty high

I'm not overly impressed with gaudy W-L records against weak schedules. (I'll take credit for each of the above). I want to see Midd, Va. Wes., and MIT keep it up through the teeth of their conference play.

To me, the even more alarming fact is that someone thinks UW-W is #9.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 11, 2012, 09:42:58 AM
My highest non-top 25 team (in our poll) was Wash U. which I had at #19. It was really hard to pick after the Top 15.

I had Emory at #2. ID'ing the Top 15 was pretty easy but putting them into the slots was rough.

However, this is a baseline. I think I'll get this down to a science and swing with this pretty easily.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 11, 2012, 09:45:21 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 11, 2012, 09:25:50 AM
Quote from: magicman on January 11, 2012, 09:09:32 AM
Interesting poll results. Not sure I understand some of the placements, though. Would like to hear some of the reasons for these votes, if possible.


Middlebury #23.  This 1 vote cost Middlebury the #1 ranking. (They could have been ranked 16th and would be #1)

Va Wesleyan   #24     Just wondering if its the same voter that gave Middlebury it's #23 vote. Hope they understand that we do list the team we think is the best as #1 and not #25.

MIT received no ranking by one voter.  Left off on purpose or perhaps inadvertently?

WPI #3  seems pretty high

I'm not overly impressed with gaudy W-L records against weak schedules. (I'll take credit for each of the above). I want to see Midd, Va. Wes., and MIT keep it up through the teeth of their conference play.

To me, the even more alarming fact is that someone thinks UW-W is #9.

I thought I was going to be the crazy one.  I get the point, though.  It was difficult for me to figure out what to do with the teams who have beaten a lot of bad teams with no real great win.

At this point, I do side with margin of victory.  Even if you're playing scrubs, winning by 30 every night says something for your ability.

I humbly give up my "captain outlier" title once and for all.  I shall never regain it after this week.  I have lost the ability to surprise and infuriate.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 11, 2012, 11:37:43 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 11, 2012, 09:25:50 AM


I'm not overly impressed with gaudy W-L records against weak schedules. (I'll take credit for each of the above). I want to see Midd, Va. Wes., and MIT keep it up through the teeth of their conference play.

To me, the even more alarming fact is that someone thinks UW-W is #9.

I had them #2, but WW is #9 in the real poll. ???
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 11, 2012, 12:27:58 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 11, 2012, 08:27:40 AM
I cast a vote for William Paterson, but I don't see them on the list anywhere. I also voted for Eastern Conn. and at a ranking that isn't listed next to their name.

My transcribing errors - poll has been corrected.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 11, 2012, 01:02:34 PM
Quote from: magicman on January 11, 2012, 09:09:32 AM
WPI #3  seems pretty high

I just noticed this.  That's practically indefensible.  They lost two games - to the only moderately decent teams on the schedule and have beaten no one.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: littleeastguy on January 11, 2012, 03:56:28 PM
Poll looks good to me, but I am guessing that even with resending you never got mine? My rankings of a few teams show that mine wasn't in there.  Hope I figure it out for next time.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 11, 2012, 04:06:30 PM
Quote from: littleeastguy on January 11, 2012, 03:56:28 PM
Poll looks good to me, but I am guessing that even with resending you never got mine? My rankings of a few teams show that mine wasn't in there.  Hope I figure it out for next time.

Actually, I eventually got your PM (or got your re-send), but had already logged in your email ballot.  I noticed there were some differences between the two (and didn't know which you preferred), but chose not to undo what I'd already done.

I find PM more convenient; go ahead and send it that way again next week (and I'll be more patient, if necessary!).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 11, 2012, 04:36:07 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 11, 2012, 09:25:50 AM
Quote from: magicman on January 11, 2012, 09:09:32 AM
Interesting poll results. Not sure I understand some of the placements, though. Would like to hear some of the reasons for these votes, if possible.


Middlebury #23.  This 1 vote cost Middlebury the #1 ranking. (They could have been ranked 16th and would be #1)

Va Wesleyan   #24     Just wondering if its the same voter that gave Middlebury it's #23 vote. Hope they understand that we do list the team we think is the best as #1 and not #25.

MIT received no ranking by one voter.  Left off on purpose or perhaps inadvertently?

WPI #3  seems pretty high

I'm not overly impressed with gaudy W-L records against weak schedules. (I'll take credit for each of the above). I want to see Midd, Va. Wes., and MIT keep it up through the teeth of their conference play.

To me, the even more alarming fact is that someone thinks UW-W is #9.

KS,
I can understand that you think Middlebury might be placed too high, and I agree their schedule hasn't been as tough as some of the other top teams, but they did make it to the Final Four last year, losing to the Champs by 2 points in the semi's and they returned a majority of that team. They also have a pretty good bench as 10 players average double digit minutes. They played their first 6 games without their All American, Ryan Sharry, and included in that stretch was a win on the road, over a decent Ramapo team by 11 points. That's the same MOV that Willie Paterson, at home, beat Ramapo by. I'm guessing that you ranked Willie Pat higher than Middlebury ( 11 or 22) or only 1 spot worse (24) I've seen Middlebury play and I think they're a very good team. Certainly Top Ten.

MIT made it to the 2nd round of the NCAA's last year without their best player Noel Hollingsworth. I believe this team would have beaten Rochester last year if he had played and would have been in the sweet 16 at the very least. He's back and leads the team in scoring (17.9ppg). In addition to Hollingsworth, they also returned their top five scorers from last year. They have five players averaging double digits. I watched them play this year on the road against a very good Tufts team and they won a tough game 60-56. That same Tufts team beat Williams at Williams last week 80-71. They are also a Top Ten team in my opinion.   
   
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 11, 2012, 04:58:19 PM
Quote from: magicman on January 11, 2012, 04:36:07 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 11, 2012, 09:25:50 AM
Quote from: magicman on January 11, 2012, 09:09:32 AM
Interesting poll results. Not sure I understand some of the placements, though. Would like to hear some of the reasons for these votes, if possible.


Middlebury #23.  This 1 vote cost Middlebury the #1 ranking. (They could have been ranked 16th and would be #1)

Va Wesleyan   #24     Just wondering if its the same voter that gave Middlebury it's #23 vote. Hope they understand that we do list the team we think is the best as #1 and not #25.

MIT received no ranking by one voter.  Left off on purpose or perhaps inadvertently?

WPI #3  seems pretty high

I'm not overly impressed with gaudy W-L records against weak schedules. (I'll take credit for each of the above). I want to see Midd, Va. Wes., and MIT keep it up through the teeth of their conference play.

To me, the even more alarming fact is that someone thinks UW-W is #9.

KS,
I can understand that you think Middlebury might be placed too high, and I agree their schedule hasn't been as tough as some of the other top teams, but they did make it to the Final Four last year, losing to the Champs by 2 points in the semi's and they returned a majority of that team. They also have a pretty good bench as 10 players average double digit minutes. They played their first 6 games without their All American, Ryan Sharry, and included in that stretch was a win on the road, over a decent Ramapo team by 11 points. That's the same MOV that Willie Paterson, at home, beat Ramapo by. I'm guessing that you ranked Willie Pat higher than Middlebury ( 11 or 22) or only 1 spot worse (24) I've seen Middlebury play and I think they're a very good team. Certainly Top Ten.

MIT made it to the 2nd round of the NCAA's last year without their best player Noel Hollingsworth. I believe this team would have beaten Rochester last year if he had played and would have been in the sweet 16 at the very least. He's back and leads the team in scoring (17.9ppg). In addition to Hollingsworth, they also returned their top five scorers from last year. They have five players averaging double digits. I watched them play this year on the road against a very good Tufts team and they won a tough game 60-56. That same Tufts team beat Williams at Williams last week 80-71. They are also a Top Ten team in my opinion.   
   

It's fair to include some sort of adjustment for last year's team (especially early on), but I don't include it. It's more than fair (better, actually) to include MOV, but unfortunately I don't include it.

I am looking at a way to give a boost to undefeated teams because they are (potentially) better than their schedule strength indicates. But at the same time, I'd rather see a team consistently play opponents that are .600+ in winning percentage than have maybe beaten an .850+ team mixed in with a bunch of sub-.500 teams.

That's why my system ranks WPI so high (too high, but I'm living with it at the moment). 10 out of 13 games were versus teams that have won better than 60% of their D3 games.

Only 4 of MIT's 14 opponents have a winning percentage of 60% or more. For Middlebury, it's 5 out of 14.

If MIT and Midd keep winning, my system will (should) have them ranked "properly" by season's end. WPI's high ranking looks like an issue that I'll be fighting all year. We'll have to see if they keep winning as well.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 11, 2012, 05:20:44 PM
KS, so you're saying the Commissioner should disallow your ballot until the end of the season? :o ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 11, 2012, 06:04:02 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 11, 2012, 05:20:44 PM
KS, so you're saying the Commissioner should disallow your ballot until the end of the season? :o ;D

I did vote IWU rather high, so you know my system isn't too bad...
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 11, 2012, 06:49:34 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 11, 2012, 06:04:02 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 11, 2012, 05:20:44 PM
KS, so you're saying the Commissioner should disallow your ballot until the end of the season? :o ;D

I did vote IWU rather high, so you know my system isn't too bad...

Zing! ;D

Once upon a time, I worried that voters would be overly 'homerish'.  It seems, in fact, that voters bend so far over NOT to do so, that the reverse occurs.  I myself placed IWU lower than they finished.  Both Hope-affiliated voters had them lower than they finished.  augie-superfan had Augie lower than they finished (and WAY lower than I had them, though yesterday changed my mind!).  Folks, my 'threat' to disallow ballots which are 'too homerish' has never even come close to being invoked.  Now if hopefan (NOT one of the Hope-affiliated voters mentioned above, but virtually the only poster keeping the SLIAC board from extinction) finally joins us and puts six SLIAC teams in his top 10, THEN we'd have a problem! 8-) 

[Note to hopefan - just kidding!  I know you would not do that; come join the fun. ;)]

And we sure could use some southern and western voters. :-[
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 11, 2012, 10:32:39 PM
NO orphans, but I surely was on the limits of conventional wisdom for as many as I can remember!

I might offer to fill the role of "Lieutenant Outlier".  Let me see how badly my picks were off as the weeks progress!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 11, 2012, 10:59:56 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 11, 2012, 10:32:39 PM
NO orphans, but I surely was on the limits of conventional wisdom for as many as I can remember!

I might offer to fill the role of "Lieutenant Outlier".  Let me see how badly my picks were off as the weeks progress!

Ralph, your claim to 'Lieutenant Outlier' is to laugh!  You and I had the same top 6 (in order) and nearly matched on many of the rest.  We are the 'consensus twins'! :P

BTW, no offense meant by asking for southern and western voters.  I realize you are a southern voter, but you are so 'national' I sometimes forget!  But I've tried over and over to get anyone else from the south (I've especially worked on ODAC, to no avail), and unless nwhoops comes back this year, we have no one at all from the left coast (I've made personal appeals to April and David Collinge; no dice; despite our flare-up a few years ago, I'd welcome OxyBob, but, again, no dice).

Also, Ralph, don't know if you follow the National Pickems (since you don't play) - I picked the slate this week and had a game in your honor: McMurry vs. 'Horrid Pain'! ;D  (Some suckers [I hope!] actually took HP.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2012, 12:25:51 AM
Quote from: sac on January 11, 2012, 11:37:43 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 11, 2012, 09:25:50 AM


I'm not overly impressed with gaudy W-L records against weak schedules. (I'll take credit for each of the above). I want to see Midd, Va. Wes., and MIT keep it up through the teeth of their conference play.

To me, the even more alarming fact is that someone thinks UW-W is #9.

I had them #2, but WW is #9 in the real poll. ???

KS, I was the one who voted UWW #9.  Much as I respect and like you lugs, if I had to choose my compatriots, I'd probably go with the 'real' poll!  And yes, my ballot was before the real poll came out.  (Pat was gracious enough to once send me the 'stuff' he sends out to his voters a few years ago; I was quite impressed with the wealth of data and stories that were included.)

And yes, UWW beat my Titans.  Barring losses, both will rise on my next ballot.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 12, 2012, 03:13:54 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 11, 2012, 10:32:39 PM
NO orphans, but I surely was on the limits of conventional wisdom for as many as I can remember!

I might offer to fill the role of "Lieutenant Outlier".  Let me see how badly my picks were off as the weeks progress!
I had quite a few outliers in my poll it seems... let's see...
Teams I was top voter
Hope at 1
CMS at 2
Wabash at 5
IWU at 9
Grinnell at 4 (next best 14th)
Lake Forest at 10 (one of three to vote)
Ripon at 20 (orphan)
Rose-Hulman at 25 (orphan)

Teams I was in the bottom 2 voters
Middlebury at 8
Virginia Wesleyan at 11
Whitworth at 13
Emory at 17
Amherst not ranked (only non vote)
Augie not ranked
UW-SP not ranked
Williams not ranked
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2012, 07:32:09 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 11, 2012, 10:59:56 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 11, 2012, 10:32:39 PM
NO orphans, but I surely was on the limits of conventional wisdom for as many as I can remember!

I might offer to fill the role of "Lieutenant Outlier".  Let me see how badly my picks were off as the weeks progress!

Ralph, your claim to 'Lieutenant Outlier' is to laugh!  You and I had the same top 6 (in order) and nearly matched on many of the rest.  We are the 'consensus twins'! :P

BTW, no offense meant by asking for southern and western voters.  I realize you are a southern voter, but you are so 'national' I sometimes forget!  But I've tried over and over to get anyone else from the south (I've especially worked on ODAC, to no avail), and unless nwhoops comes back this year, we have no one at all from the left coast (I've made personal appeals to April and David Collinge; no dice; despite our flare-up a few years ago, I'd welcome OxyBob, but, again, no dice).

Also, Ralph, don't know if you follow the National Pickems (since you don't play) - I picked the slate this week and had a game in your honor: McMurry vs. 'Horrid Pain'! ;D  (Some suckers [I hope!] actually took HP.)

Thanks for the comments.

I am glad that you and I are seeing some of the same things in this year's poll.

And I love beating Horrid Pain!  The game tonight is in the Brownwood Mausoleum, or at least it used to be before the improved lighting and the "new floor" installed in summer of 2007!

Thanks for running the Posters' Poll again this year.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 15, 2012, 02:16:24 PM

I had Wesleyan 28th last week.  I wish I had put them 25; I would have been hailed a genius.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 15, 2012, 02:23:05 PM
NYU starting to pour it on - now 65-47 w/ <3 to go.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 15, 2012, 08:14:16 PM

I didn't like my ballot last week.  I would have liked to wait until this week to start.  So I started over.

I took a slightly different tact this time.  I went through each conference and grabbed any team that seemed worthy of consideration.  I ranked them within each region and then threw the top teams on the table, just like the selection committee.  When one got picked, the next from that region joined the bunch.

I like this ballot a lot more.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 15, 2012, 10:26:24 PM
I hope this is not an ominous sign.  So far it is just HF and me.  Usually once Darryl Nester posts 'How They Fared' I get 3-4 ballots within a couple of hours! ;D

Oh well, two more days to submit.  Let's go from 12 to 14+!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 15, 2012, 10:53:10 PM
If the rest of the voters are like me they spent today lazily watching falling asleep to the NFL playoff games.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 15, 2012, 11:14:36 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 15, 2012, 10:26:24 PM
I hope this is not an ominous sign.  So far it is just HF and me.  Usually once Darryl Nester posts 'How They Fared' I get 3-4 ballots within a couple of hours! ;D

Oh well, two more days to submit.  Let's go from 12 to 14+!
Mine is coming!  And +1 to Darryl Nester!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: hopefan on January 16, 2012, 07:27:26 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 11, 2012, 06:49:34 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 11, 2012, 06:04:02 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 11, 2012, 05:20:44 PM
KS, so you're saying the Commissioner should disallow your ballot until the end of the season? :o ;D

I did vote IWU rather high, so you know my system isn't too bad...

Zing! ;D

Now if hopefan (NOT one of the Hope-affiliated voters mentioned above, but virtually the only poster keeping the SLIAC board from extinction) finally joins us and puts six SLIAC teams in his top 10, THEN we'd have a problem! 8-) 

[Note to hopefan - just kidding!  I know you would not do that; come join the fun. ;)]


And we sure could use some southern and western voters. :-[

WE NEED A BOTTOM 25 POLL  -   Then I could do some real damage!!!!   ;D ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 16, 2012, 10:55:51 AM
Hey, I LIVE in the south, does that count.

OK, South Florida is not the south. It's some weird transplanted region. The south ends at Orlando.

My poll will come later today.

****
Mine is in - only considered 40 teams!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 16, 2012, 10:41:27 PM
I got a ballot from 'turk...torn...' by email.  I have tallied it, but am curious about your posting name.  Identity??!!  (I prefer PMs, but emails are OK IF you identify yourself.)

That brings us to eight for the week, but by this time on Monday we should be higher - procrastinators, don't give you loyal compiler a coronary! :P
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 16, 2012, 11:23:43 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 16, 2012, 10:41:27 PM
I got a ballot from 'turk...torn...' by email.  I have tallied it, but am curious about your posting name.  Identity??!!  (I prefer PMs, but emails are OK IF you identify yourself.)

That brings us to eight for the week, but by this time on Monday we should be higher - procrastinators, don't give you loyal compiler a coronary! :P

If nobody identifies it, then it was from me  ;D

I'm still working on Week 1... the boys still haven't gone to bed yet!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 17, 2012, 01:08:48 AM
I've got a couple teams that I just didn't know what to do with.  So I punted.

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 17, 2012, 02:20:57 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 16, 2012, 10:41:27 PM
That brings us to eight for the week, but by this time on Monday we should be higher - procrastinators, don't give you loyal compiler a coronary! :P
Not trying for a coronary... just pneumonia or the flu ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hugenerd on January 17, 2012, 06:38:56 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 16, 2012, 10:41:27 PM
I got a ballot from 'turk...torn...' by email.  I have tallied it, but am curious about your posting name.  Identity??!!  (I prefer PMs, but emails are OK IF you identify yourself.)

That brings us to eight for the week, but by this time on Monday we should be higher - procrastinators, don't give you loyal compiler a coronary! :P

That's mine.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 17, 2012, 02:35:35 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 16, 2012, 10:41:27 PM
I got a ballot from 'turk...torn...' by email.  I have tallied it, but am curious about your posting name.  Identity??!!  (I prefer PMs, but emails are OK IF you identify yourself.)

That brings us to eight for the week, but by this time on Monday we should be higher - procrastinators, don't give you loyal compiler a coronary! :P

You mean you don't know who the Turkish Tornado is? Shame on you. :P
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 17, 2012, 03:12:49 PM
Well a team I debated and debated about and finally added to my Top 25 (at 24) lost on Monday night. Oooperdy.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 17, 2012, 03:24:50 PM
Quote from: smedindy on January 17, 2012, 03:12:49 PM
Well a team I debated and debated about and finally added to my Top 25 (at 24) lost on Monday night. Oooperdy.
Well, Tommies losing to Bethel 69-68 is no great crime.  I put the Tommies at #20 on Sunday night (before the Official Top 25 came out, I might add.   ;)  )

I just hope your #24 was not New England College losing at home to Albany Pharmacy 73-63!   ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 17, 2012, 03:51:34 PM
We're down to the final few hours and still only ten ballots.  I'm hoping for a late rush at the polling stations! 8-)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 17, 2012, 05:34:37 PM
I'm working on mine and will have it in shortly.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 17, 2012, 05:54:06 PM
Mine's in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 17, 2012, 06:24:19 PM
magicman brings us to 12, but several familiar voters still missing (and newbies welcome).  I'll start typing up the results in about an hour, unless anyone requests more time.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 17, 2012, 07:34:27 PM
Guys, this is the 7th year of the PP, but if interest doesn't ramp up, it may be the last for me (as compiler).  I'm gonna start typing now (I'll re-start if anyone sends another ballot, or even the promise of another ballot), but another week of 12 (with 2 newbies, but 2 no-shows, and MANY no-shows from previous times) is discouraging.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 17, 2012, 07:39:20 PM
Maybe we need a fresher marketing angle!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 17, 2012, 08:46:40 PM
Posters' Poll, thru games of 1-15-12

1.  Midd          280 (1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2,2,5,5,6)
2.  UWW         272 (1,1,1,2,3,3,4,4,4,5,6,6)
3.  MIT           263 (1,1,2,2,3,3,4,4,5,5,7,12)
4.  Va Wes      256 (1,2,2,2,3,3,3,4,5,5,8,18)
5.  Hope         246 (1,1,3,3,4,5,7,7,7,7,9,12)
6.  UMHB        220 (4,5,6,6,6,7,7,8,9,10,11,13)
7.  Whitworth  215 (5,5,6,6,7,8,8,9,9,10,11,13)
8.  CMS          211 (2,3,4,7,8,8,8,9,11,11,12,18)
9.  Amherst     198 (3,3,4,4,6,8,9,10,13,17,17,20)
10. IWU          179 (5,7,7,8,8,11,11,12,14,15,16,19)
11. UWSP        166 (4,8,9,9,9,10,10,11,14,17,19,-)
12. Emory        160 (6,7,8,9,10,10,11,12,12,19,22,-)
13. Wabash      125 (10,12,12,13,14,15,15,16,18,18,18,-)
14. Cabrini        114 (10,10,12,13,13,14,14,15,21,24,-,-) 
15. F & M          88 (10,11,14,14,15,16,17,24,25,-,-,-)
16. NYU            81 (9,11,16,16,17,19,20,22.24.25.-,-)
17. Wheaton     77 (9,15,15,16,16,17,22,23,24,-,-,-)
18. E. Conn       65 (10,11,12,21,22,23,23,24,24,25,-,-)
19. Witt            59 ( 14,15,17,17,19,20,22,25,-,-,-,-)
20. Lake Forest  58 ( 6,13,17,18,21,23,-,-,-,-,-,-)
21. Wooster      56 (14,16,16,17,20,21,22,-,-,-,-,-)
t22. RIC            52 (14,18,18,20,21,21,21,23.-,-,-,-)
t22. Williams      52 (13,15,18,19,19,21,25,-,-,-,-,-)
t24. Birmingham-S 50 (13,13,14,19,21,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)
t24. Wash U        50 (6,14,15,19,-,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)

26. Willy Pat        47 (15,18,19,20,20,21,23,25,-,-,-,-)
27. St. Thomas    46 (17,19,19,20,20,21,22,24)
28. Hardin-Simmons 40 (12,13,20,22,25,25,25)
29. Grinnell          33 (11,16,18)
30. UWRF            31 (15,16,16)
31. Augie            29 (12,15,21,25)
32. Lycoming       28 (13,20,23,23,23)
33. Transy           17 (20,22,23,24,24)
34. Wesleyan       16 (18,22,22)
35. WPI               6 (22,24)
t36. OWU             3 (23)
t36. W. Conn         3 (23)
t38. Oswego         2 (24)
t38. UPS              2 (24)
t40. Adrian           1
t40. DePauw         1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 17, 2012, 08:59:54 PM

I only had five true outliers this time.  I was the high water mark for Wesleyan (which served me well after the win over Amherst this evening) and Transylvania, as well as Mary Hardin-Baylor.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 17, 2012, 09:08:33 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 17, 2012, 08:59:54 PM

I only had five true outliers this time.  I was the high water mark for Wesleyan (which served me well after the win over Amherst this evening) and Transylvania, as well as Mary Hardin-Baylor.

Good call on Wesleyan - they were my #26 or #27.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 17, 2012, 09:23:11 PM
I was wondering if Va Wes, Emory, and Birmingham-Southern are all lagging behind the d3 poll because I can't get any southern voters (except Ralph), but then realized that I now have NO west coast voters, and Whitworth and CMS are both AHEAD of the d3 poll.  In my best Emily Litella: Never mind. ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 17, 2012, 09:36:25 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 17, 2012, 09:23:11 PM
I was wondering if Va Wes, Emory, and Birmingham-Southern are all lagging behind the d3 poll because I can't get any southern voters (except Ralph), but then realized that I now have NO west coast voters, and Whitworth and CMS are both AHEAD of the d3 poll.  In my best Emily Litella: Never mind. ;D

Birmingham Southern's weak schedule keep them out for me.  Cabrini and F&M received the same fate.


I really think Wooster is a top 25 team, but their losses forced my hand and I had to leave them out.  Same with Augustana, but I'm not sure Augie is a top 25 team anymore without their big man.

The only ranked team I seem to be way off on is Amherst, I believe I was the #20 voter, if not I was one of the #17's. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 17, 2012, 09:59:36 PM

Birmingham Southern has just played no one and not all of the games have been blow outs.  They lost to Centre, who, while not a bad team, isn't exactly a world beater.  In my book you have to have at least one signature win to move up the rankings - or an average MOV of 25+ against the scrubs.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 17, 2012, 10:05:19 PM
My Top 25 looks closer to the official Top 25 than the Poster's Poll balloteers.

I will stand by my ballot for the second week.   ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 17, 2012, 10:06:49 PM
Quote from: sac on January 17, 2012, 09:36:25 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 17, 2012, 09:23:11 PM
I was wondering if Va Wes, Emory, and Birmingham-Southern are all lagging behind the d3 poll because I can't get any southern voters (except Ralph), but then realized that I now have NO west coast voters, and Whitworth and CMS are both AHEAD of the d3 poll.  In my best Emily Litella: Never mind. ;D

Birmingham Southern's weak schedule keep them out for me.  Cabrini and F&M received the same fate.


I really think Wooster is a top 25 team, but their losses forced my hand and I had to leave them out.  Same with Augustana, but I'm not sure Augie is a top 25 team anymore without their big man.

The only ranked team I seem to be way off on is Amherst, I believe I was the #20 voter, if not I was one of the #17's.

You were one of the 17s.  After their loss tonite to Wesleyan, you're lookin' good!  (Though I'd say more 10 or 11, and I wish I'd put Wesleyan in my top 25!)

(I didn't have Woo in my top 25; I did have Augie (barely) but that may not last.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 17, 2012, 11:07:32 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 17, 2012, 07:34:27 PM
Guys, this is the 7th year of the PP, but if interest doesn't ramp up, it may be the last for me (as compiler).  I'm gonna start typing now (I'll re-start if anyone sends another ballot, or even the promise of another ballot), but another week of 12 (with 2 newbies, but 2 no-shows, and MANY no-shows from previous times) is discouraging.

Dunno if it'll help much, but I'll be back on board starting next week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 17, 2012, 11:15:25 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 17, 2012, 11:07:32 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 17, 2012, 07:34:27 PM
Guys, this is the 7th year of the PP, but if interest doesn't ramp up, it may be the last for me (as compiler).  I'm gonna start typing now (I'll re-start if anyone sends another ballot, or even the promise of another ballot), but another week of 12 (with 2 newbies, but 2 no-shows, and MANY no-shows from previous times) is discouraging.

Dunno if it'll help much, but I'll be back on board starting next week.

Yes, that will help.

And due to the poor 'attendance' this year, I am deep-sixing my previous policy (no new voters after week 2, to assure some stability in rankings).  This year new voters are welcome thru AT LEAST week 4 - come one, come all!

Sorry if I'm sounding desperate, but, hey, I'm desperate!  The PP is floundering, and I would hate to see it die. :P
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 18, 2012, 09:22:56 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 17, 2012, 09:59:36 PM

Birmingham Southern has just played no one and not all of the games have been blow outs.  They lost to Centre, who, while not a bad team, isn't exactly a world beater.  In my book you have to have at least one signature win to move up the rankings - or an average MOV of 25+ against the scrubs.

25 seems arbitrary, especially since reasonable coaches would call off the dogs at some point. Pounding teams into submission doesn't make them look better - that's why reasonable power rankings have diminishing returns. They're winning by an average of 16.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 18, 2012, 11:14:24 AM
Quote from: smedindy on January 18, 2012, 09:22:56 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 17, 2012, 09:59:36 PM

Birmingham Southern has just played no one and not all of the games have been blow outs.  They lost to Centre, who, while not a bad team, isn't exactly a world beater.  In my book you have to have at least one signature win to move up the rankings - or an average MOV of 25+ against the scrubs.

25 seems arbitrary, especially since reasonable coaches would call off the dogs at some point. Pounding teams into submission doesn't make them look better - that's why reasonable power rankings have diminishing returns. They're winning by an average of 16.

I said 25 to be accurate mathematically.  I usually look for most of the wins to be by 30.  It's really the only way you can tell much about teams playing inferior competition at this point of the year.  It's true that most teams call off the dogs early, which is why large margins of victory often indicate a strong bench.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 18, 2012, 11:23:06 AM
See, I disagree. I don't think you can say much about a 20-point win vs. a 30-point win. And if they go deep into the bench, or play a lot of JV players, it may not mean much at all.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 18, 2012, 12:39:37 PM
Quote from: smedindy on January 18, 2012, 11:23:06 AM
See, I disagree. I don't think you can say much about a 20-point win vs. a 30-point win. And if they go deep into the bench, or play a lot of JV players, it may not mean much at all.

No, it might not, but it does mean more than beating scrubs by 3 or 4 every night.  We do the best we can at this point in the season.  I really only go there as a last resort; I put a lot more weight in wins over good teams.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 22, 2012, 01:04:01 AM
And after tonight, what the heck are we gonna do??   :o
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 22, 2012, 01:36:54 AM
Quote from: smedindy on January 22, 2012, 01:04:01 AM
And after tonight, what the heck are we gonna do??   :o

Well, by definition, there are always 25 on top.  Good luck to us all deciding who they are!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 22, 2012, 05:38:20 PM

Mine's in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 22, 2012, 09:44:56 PM
Mine's in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 23, 2012, 08:21:52 PM
Been stuck on 6 ballots for a long time now - do you procrastinators have to make me nervous EVERY week?! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: frodotwo on January 23, 2012, 11:18:22 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 23, 2012, 08:21:52 PM
Been stuck on 6 ballots for a long time now - do you procrastinators have to make me nervous EVERY week?! ;D

One less procrastinator now
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 23, 2012, 11:53:04 PM
Mines in, hopefully error free.  I had a few big movers this week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 24, 2012, 05:14:24 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 23, 2012, 08:21:52 PM
Been stuck on 6 ballots for a long time now - do you procrastinators have to make me nervous EVERY week?! ;D
But it's just us procrastinators doing what we do best. We can't make it easy on you ;)
Mine is in
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 24, 2012, 02:21:31 PM
Just sent mine in. Now off to see the #1 team in the country. Now that my Middlebury Panthers have won the Survivor Pool, I don't have the conundrum of who to root for tonight as my Panthers play my hometown Plattsburgh State Cardinals. Go Cardinals, pull off the upset!! It won't happen and I hope they can give them a competitive game but it's a team of freshmen and sophmores playing a veteran Middlebury squad.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 24, 2012, 04:55:52 PM
We now stand at 11, with about two hours to go.  Both previous weeks we ended with 12 (and have had 13 different people vote so far) - can we set a season high? ;D

(As always, I will hold off if someone notifies me they could get a ballot in if given a couple extra hours.  Otherwise I will begin typing around 7 EST.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 24, 2012, 07:50:22 PM
POSTERS' POLL, thru games of 1-22-12

1.  Middlebury       265 (1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,3,3,5)
2.  UWW              263 (1,1,1,1,2,2,2,3,3,3,4)
3.  Hope              252 (1,2,2,2,2,3,3,3,4,5,7)
4.  MIT               205 (2,4,4,4,5,5,6,7,8,10,-)
5.  Va. Wes.        198 (4,4,4,4,5,5,5,6,8,17,-)
6.  Emory            184 (5,5,6,7,7,7,8,9,9,13,-)
t7. Amherst         169 (3,5,6,6,7,7,10,14,15,22)
t7. UMHB             169 (3,6,8,8,9,9,11,12,13,15,23)
t9. CMS              156 (2,4,6,9,10,11,11,13,19,19,-)
t9. Whitworth       156 (6,7,8,9,10,11,12,14,16,17,20)
11. NYU               151 (5,6,7,9,9,13,14,16,18,18,20)
12. IWU               126 (8,11,11,12,13,14,15,16,18,20,22)
13. Cabrini           113 (8,9,10,10,12,13,15,19,25,-,-)
14. F & M            108 (9,10,10,11,11,13,17,21,23,-,-)
15. E. Conn.         106 (7,7,8,12,18,19,19,20,21,23,-)
16. UWSP              94 (3,8,12,15,17,17,19,23,24,-,-)
17. Willy Pat          88 (12,12,14,14,15,15,16,23,25,-,-)
18. Wheaton          86 (8,13,14,17,17,19,20,20,22,24,-)
19. RIC                 82 (6,10,13,16,18,19,21,23,-,-,-)
20. Williams           79 (12,14,14,15,16,18,21,22,23,-,-)
21. Lake Forest      72 (4,10,12,15,18,25,-,-,-,-,-)
22. Wabash           64 (15,16,16,17,20,20,21,22,23,-,-)
23. Wooster          59 (16,16,17,18,21,22,22,23,23,23,-)
24. BSU                45 (11,14,17,18,25,-,-,-,-,-,-)
25. UWRF              38 (11,13,16,-,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)

26. Grinnell            35 (6,17,20)
27. Transy             34 (13,19,20,24,24,24,24)
t28. Wash U          32 (12,18,20,22)
t28. Witt               32 (14,15,19,25,25)
30. Augie               30 (10,19,23,24,24)
31. WPI                 27 (9,21,22,25)
32. Lycoming          20 (11,21)
33. Randy Mac         8 (18)
t34. NCC                 5 (22,25)
t34. Oswego            5 (21)
t34. W. Conn.           5 (21)
t34. Whitman           5 (21)
38. St. Thomas        3 (24,25)
39. St. Joseph's (LI)  2 (24)
t40. Albertus Magnus  1
t40. DePauw              1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 25, 2012, 01:39:28 AM
As usual I seem to have wildly different opinions than other pollsters... here's every team I was the highest or lowest voter going down the poll...

#1 Middlebury at 5
#3 Hope at 1
#T7 Amherst at 22
#T9 CMS at 2
#15 E Connecticut at 7
#17 William Patterson at 12
#20 Williams NR
#21 Lake Forest at 4
#22 Wabash NR
#23 Wooster NR
#26 Grinnell at 6
#39 St Joseph (LI) at 24 orphan
#40 Albertus Magnus at 25 orphan
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: frodotwo on January 25, 2012, 12:31:55 PM
Other head scratchers to me were:

Va Wes, MIT, Emory and CMS left off one ballot
CMS at #2
UWSP at #3
Grinnell at #6

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 25, 2012, 05:18:32 PM
I need some help with Lake Forest.

Are they as good as the Lawrence teams of the last decade?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 25, 2012, 05:36:38 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 25, 2012, 05:18:32 PM
I need some help with Lake Forest.

Are they as good as the Lawrence teams of the last decade?

I've not seen them, and don't follow the MWC particularly closely, but my impression would be that they do not match the 2006 Lawrence team (undefeated until my Titans took them down in the tourney on the way to the FF ;D).  They seemingly may match up well with other groups of Larries - Saturday (hosting Grinnell) may be key to deciding that.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 25, 2012, 05:55:50 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 25, 2012, 05:18:32 PM
I need some help with Lake Forest.

Are they as good as the Lawrence teams of the last decade?

I've seen the Foresters live this season on one occasion. No, they aren't quite as good as the Braier-era Lawrence teams. But they are pretty good.  I'd say that they're probably somewhere in the #30 to #40 range.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 25, 2012, 06:31:06 PM
Lake Forest is #6 in Massey with a #20 SOS. I think that may stem from they have played anyone heinously ghastly (3-14 teams are bad, not egregiously bad, though) and beating decent Ripon and St. Norbert teams on the road.

I think Massey overstates them a bit but they're not chicken feed.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 25, 2012, 09:00:26 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 25, 2012, 05:18:32 PM
I need some help with Lake Forest.

Are they as good as the Lawrence teams of the last decade?


They've got some work to do in the NCAA tournament before they can match those Lawrence teams...
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 25, 2012, 09:01:30 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 25, 2012, 05:55:50 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 25, 2012, 05:18:32 PM
I need some help with Lake Forest.

Are they as good as the Lawrence teams of the last decade?

I've seen the Foresters live this season on one occasion. No, they aren't quite as good as the Braier-era Lawrence teams. But they are pretty good.  I'd say that they're probably somewhere in the #30 to #40 range.

I should hop over and see 'em... I live just down the road after all!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 25, 2012, 09:57:08 PM
NCAC eating its own:

Witt beats DePauw 66-62.
Wooster takes care of Kenyon 78-68.
OWU nips Wabash 66-64.

Witt now has a two-game conference league. Out of DPU, Wooster, Wabash and OWU - one of those teams will be on the road for first round NCAC tourney play.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 26, 2012, 01:16:51 AM
Quote from: smedindy on January 25, 2012, 09:57:08 PM
NCAC eating its own:

Witt beats DePauw 66-62.
Wooster takes care of Kenyon 78-68.
OWU nips Wabash 66-64.

Witt now has a two-game conference league. Out of DPU, Wooster, Wabash and OWU - one of those teams will be on the road for first round NCAC tourney play.

......and playing one of those other 3 teams.   :-\
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 29, 2012, 03:20:31 PM

Sent my poll in.  Taking some fliers on teams with good records and poor schedules near the bottom.

I wanted to vote for Grinnell, but they ended up #26 - just couldn't get them in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 30, 2012, 10:37:03 AM
I hope to get mine in tonight. I have a week long set of multiple conference calls with our client, so my brain may be fried...
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 30, 2012, 01:41:23 PM
Quote from: smedindy on January 30, 2012, 10:37:03 AM
I hope to get mine in tonight. I have a week long set of multiple conference calls with our client, so my brain may be fried...

With our group, who would notice the difference?! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 30, 2012, 08:13:55 PM
Just sent mine in. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 30, 2012, 09:45:11 PM
With about 22 hours left, I'm far from panic mode.  But I am concerned.  We have only 6 ballots so far, I've heard from one regular who's computer went kablooey (killing his data) who won't be voting this week, and there are two voters I always get ballots from by now who are not on the list.

EVERYONE, get those ballots in!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 31, 2012, 01:02:42 AM
NOW I'm getting worried.  Still just six ballots, when we usually have 8 or 9.

Remember, tomorrow is my bowling league - I can't harangue you again until 4 or so!  I don't have all that much hair left, so make sure by 4 I have 3-4 more ballots so I don't pull out 'The Few, The Proud' the remaining hairs! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 31, 2012, 01:05:32 AM
I retract the previous post: I'm betting there are voters who would withhold their ballots just to see me go bald! 8-)  Get 'em in just because it's the right thing to do. :P
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 31, 2012, 04:21:09 PM
We are now up to 9 (w/ c. 3 hours to go), but that is still 3 short of what I expect (and 5-6 short of what I wish we'd get).

As always, if a deadline extension would help, just let me know.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 31, 2012, 06:13:48 PM
Still a disappointing nine ballots.  I'll begin typing up the results in about an hour unless I hear from anyone.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 31, 2012, 08:02:44 PM
It's just nine.
That's NOT fine.

(Sorry 'bout that! :-[)

1.  Midd       221 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,3,3)
2.  Hope       215 (1,1,2,2,2,2,2,3,4)
3.  UWW       193 (2,3,4,4,5,5,5,6,7)
4.  MIT         172 (3,4,4,4,5,5,7,7,23)
t5. VaWes     168 (2,3,3,3,4,6,7,12,-)
t5. Amherst    168 (5,5,5,6,6,6,9,9,15)
7.  Whitworth  150 (5,6,7,8,9,10,12,13,14)
8.  UMHB        149 (3,6,6,7,8,9,10,11.25)
9.  CMS          135 (2,8,8,9,10,10,11,15,-)
10. UWSP        126 (2,7,9,10,10,13,14,17,-)
11. F & M        120 (8,8,8,11,11,12,14,16,-)
12. Cabrini       110 (7,8,9,9,13,13,15,24,-)
13. NYU            99 (10,11,11,14,16,16,18,19,20)
14. WashU        76 (4,11,15,15,17,19,25,-,-)
15. Wooster      74 (12,13,16,16,17,19,20,21,-)
16. Augie          71 (10,14,15,15,19,19,19,-,-)
17. IWU            69 (7,12,18,18,19,20,21,24,-)
18. Emory          59 (12,12,14,19,20,22,24,-,-)
19. Transy         54 (11,16,17,21,21,22,22,24,-)
t20 Lake Forest   50 (8,9,17,20,-,-,-,-,-)
t20 Williams        50 (11,14,18,20,21,22,-,-,-)
t22 Birm-S          46 (10,12,13,25,25,25,-,-,-)
t22 Grinnell          46 (4,14,17,23,-,-,-,-,-)
24. UWRF            44 (6,13,15,-,-,-,-,-,-)
25. RIC               40 (12,16,17,22,23,-,-,-,-)

26. Wheaton        39 (15,18,20,20,21,23)
27. Witt              37 (16,18,18,21,23,23)
28. Willy Pat        28 (16,18,20,22)
29. E. Conn         26 (13,14,25)
30. Randy Mac     20 (21,22,23,23,24,24,25)
t31 OWU             13 (19,22,24)
t31 WPI              13 (13)
33. Keene St.       10 (17,25)
34. Oswego          9 (17)
35. Lycoming        8 (18)
36. Albertus Magnus  6 (22,25,25)
t37 Keystone        5 (23,24)
t37 St. Joseph's    5 (21)
39. Hanover         2 (24)
40. NCC               1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 31, 2012, 09:02:21 PM
Since the whole point of PP is stimulating conversation, I'll commence.

While I can't even comprehend not having Va Wes in the top 25 (or top 5, for that matter ;)), the voter who left them off entirely has already explained himself.

CMS and UWSP are interesting - 7 of 9 voters placed them reasonably near where they ended, but each had a #2 and was left entirely off a ballot: would the 'extremes' care to justify their votes?

I just don't understand Birmingham-Southern.  Before the 'official' poll came out, I had them #10 (the 'real' poll had them #11).  I KNOW the SCAC is weak (and now weaker with DePauw bolting to the NCAC), but still ...!  3 high votes, 3 #25s, and 3 NVs?

To me, at least, #26 Wheaton, #27 Witt, and (especially) #30 Randy Mac are more worthy of top 25 status (having 6, 6, and 7 votes) than #24 UWRF, and t20 Lake Forest and t22 Grinnell (with 3, 4, and 4 votes).  The hazards of such a small voting population (hint, hint!).

And NUMBER FOUR votes for WashU and Grinnell - can I get some of what you're smoking?! ;D

Just for the record, though I bleed green, I was the #24 voter for IWU!  Thanks, guys, and I hope they do well in the tourney, but right now they are NOT #17!  (I reserve the right to change my mind if they upset Augie in Rock Island tonight! ;))
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: augie_superfan on January 31, 2012, 09:41:57 PM
I didn't vote for Birmingham-Southern.  I'm sure the reason for such a wide spread on them is that they've played pretty much no one. Just glancing at the schedule, I don't see a team that I'd even consider top 75.  So beating all those teams is good, but in my book, it only proves they are above the top 75. (For the record, I have them checking in at #34 in my extended rankings)

I do agree that more voters would smooth out some things with a few high rankings pushing teams up higher.  I'm guilty of that with UWRF and my #15 ranking.  I actually had them #16 last week and with all the attrition, I found them quickly moving towards the top 10.  Eventhough I think they have that capability, I had to hold them back.  I think they are clearly talented enough to be a top 25 team though.  I wasn't too comfortable with the #15 ranking but I feel after my top 10, it's pretty even between the next 25 teams or so.  Hopefully the parity will bring about a fun tournament this year.

The one team I am a lone wolf on is Cabrini (I left them off my ballot...unoficially #32).  Just like B-S, their only loss on the year is to an above average Centre team.  They haven't played a tough schedule either but they do play a lot of conference games so I guess I can't fault them too much.  They had a decent non-conference win last night against Eastern so maybe they will creep in to my top 25 next week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 31, 2012, 10:16:29 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 31, 2012, 09:02:21 PM
Since the whole point of PP is stimulating conversation, I'll commence.

While I can't even comprehend not having Va Wes in the top 25 (or top 5, for that matter ;) ), the voter who left them off entirely has already explained himself.

CMS and UWSP are interesting - 7 of 9 voters placed them reasonably near where they ended, but each had a #2 and was left entirely off a ballot: would the 'extremes' care to justify their votes?
CMS #2 from me. They've lost one game which was on the road in 2ot. Since they're a west coast school they get a little bit of a break in terms of looking at opponents. Maybe people are keeping them lower because 4 of their wins were non-D3 opponents.

Quote
I just don't understand Birmingham-Southern.  Before the 'official' poll came out, I had them #10 (the 'real' poll had them #11).  I KNOW the SCAC is weak (and now weaker with DePauw bolting to the NCAC), but still ...!  3 high votes, 3 #25s, and 3 NVs?

To me, at least, #26 Wheaton, #27 Witt, and (especially) #30 Randy Mac are more worthy of top 25 status (having 6, 6, and 7 votes) than #24 UWRF, and t20 Lake Forest and t22 Grinnell (with 3, 4, and 4 votes).  The hazards of such a small voting population (hint, hint!).

And NUMBER FOUR votes for WashU and Grinnell - can I get some of what you're smoking?! ;D
Looking at Grinnell's schedule 4th may be a tad high. We'll see where I move them next week. I had them 11th in the first poll and the teams ahead of them kept losing and falling below them. But come on... 6 people have Birmingham Southern in the top 25 (I finally slipped them in at 25) but only 4 have Grinnell? Unless I'm missing something, I just can't see how I should put BSU ahead of Grinnell. Both have just one loss and Grinnell has at least played a couple good teams.

Quote
Just for the record, though I bleed green, I was the #24 voter for IWU!  Thanks, guys, and I hope they do well in the tourney, but right now they are NOT #17!  (I reserve the right to change my mind if they upset Augie in Rock Island tonight! ;) )
I dropped them from 14th to 18th this week. I initially dropped them about 5 spots further, but I couldn't find enough teams to be ahead of them so I had to move them back up.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 31, 2012, 10:41:57 PM
Re: IWU.  Gonna have to think this one further!  I had Augie 15th; AT Augie, IWU went to OT before losing by 2.  Maybe you guys are right and they ARE 17th! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 31, 2012, 11:31:46 PM
BTW, if the committee keeps to its usual 'West Coast' island, looks like a heckuva 1st or 2nd round game: CMS and Whitworth have been neck-and-neck in both our poll and the 'real' poll!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: frodotwo on January 31, 2012, 11:52:07 PM
This is one of the tougher years for ranking that I can remember. SO many 1 or 2 loss teams. Problem with those are that many have played no one. I've seen more UWSP games, but have watched a number of other teams via streaming video and it is tough to slot some of them. (I even watched Berry beat Rust last week - just to see if M. Wilson is a AA - not really in my opinion). I've used a couple of different systems for info (D3 BB index and Massey) for SOS and the like. It was tough to slot some teams that have played very weak schedules - Midd - MIT - Cabrini - F&M - all have gaudy records against schedules in the bottom third for SOS. But.....they keep winning while other teams lose. Other teams in strong conferences keep beating each other up (UAA - CCIW - WIAC - NWC).

So I guess I penalize those stronger teams for losing against quality opponents more than I should, while rewarding those that haven't really been challenged, but still win.  My 7-11 are MIT - Cabrini - MHB -CMS - F&M and all could easily be 15-19. Is one loss MIT better than 4 loss Augie? I don't necessarily think so but Augie losing 3 in a row made it tough to keep them ahead of the pack.

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 01, 2012, 02:32:39 AM
I wasn't able to vote this week but I'm not sure my votes would have changed much.  I do think Witt is underrated, and I would not and have not voted for Cabrini or Birm-Southern, plus I've had F&M low in my polls each week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 01, 2012, 08:39:56 AM
My Top 25 was more consonant with the big poll than the Posters' Poll.

I have Augie at #10 which may be too high, but I like them better at #10 than the next 7-8 teams!
I have UWSP at #7 but for the same reason as Augie.  The WIAC produces!  UWRF is a reach for me, and so they are on my watch list.

I have Williams at #11, but they lost to 2 Top 10 teams this week!

UMHB is that good.  Just remember that they will go on the road for the Sweet 16 with only 1 in-region loss!  IMHO, flying to "elsewhere" in D-III is a 7 point handicap, regardless!

I have to put BSC, Cabrini and F&M in there somewhere, so they are in the mid-teens.  I think that F&M always has the easiest road to the Final Four.  There are so many conferences in their vicinity, that they may only see 1 quality team in their bracket of 16!  IMHO all the other brackets usually include 3-4 quality teams and there may be as many as 11 quality teams in the Bracket of Death in WIAC/CCIW country.

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 01, 2012, 08:43:14 AM
I have no idea what to make of the Little East. One day it seems like they all must be overrated, but then they knock off Middlebury.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: stag44 on February 01, 2012, 10:52:18 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 31, 2012, 11:31:46 PM
BTW, if the committee keeps to its usual 'West Coast' island, looks like a heckuva 1st or 2nd round game: CMS and Whitworth have been neck-and-neck in both our poll and the 'real' poll!

It sure is looking that way - Maybe they are able to get the TX, and MN teams in together in a 4 team pod, but it may very well be a SCIAC-NWC showdown. What would be interesting is if both WW and CMS lose in their conference tourneys but get At-Large bids- would that cause a SCIAC and NWC first round match up, or would they group all 4 together in a pod and cross them?

Its all hearsay right now - they both still have lots of games to take care of to even get a bid!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 01, 2012, 11:21:33 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 31, 2012, 09:02:21 PM
Since the whole point of PP is stimulating conversation, I'll commence.

While I can't even comprehend not having Va Wes in the top 25 (or top 5, for that matter ;)), the voter who left them off entirely has already explained himself.

CMS and UWSP are interesting - 7 of 9 voters placed them reasonably near where they ended, but each had a #2 and was left entirely off a ballot: would the 'extremes' care to justify their votes?

I just don't understand Birmingham-Southern.  Before the 'official' poll came out, I had them #10 (the 'real' poll had them #11).  I KNOW the SCAC is weak (and now weaker with DePauw bolting to the NCAC), but still ...!  3 high votes, 3 #25s, and 3 NVs?

To me, at least, #26 Wheaton, #27 Witt, and (especially) #30 Randy Mac are more worthy of top 25 status (having 6, 6, and 7 votes) than #24 UWRF, and t20 Lake Forest and t22 Grinnell (with 3, 4, and 4 votes).  The hazards of such a small voting population (hint, hint!).

And NUMBER FOUR votes for WashU and Grinnell - can I get some of what you're smoking?! ;D

Just for the record, though I bleed green, I was the #24 voter for IWU!  Thanks, guys, and I hope they do well in the tourney, but right now they are NOT #17!  (I reserve the right to change my mind if they upset Augie in Rock Island tonight! ;))

On Wash U: they've played 18 D3 games, and only three have been against teams that are sub-.500
On Virginia Wesleyan: They've played 19 D3 games, and 11 have been against teams that are sub-.500
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 01, 2012, 01:36:31 PM
I do think Witt is underrated, for sure. And I can't say OWU and Wabash and DePauw are worse than they were a couple of weeks ago. They just keep beating on each other.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 05, 2012, 05:39:27 PM

I'm in.  Glad I didn't vote for Grinnell last week.  Hartwick was my #26 this week; they're destined to lose.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 05, 2012, 07:52:43 PM
Mine is in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 06, 2012, 01:16:21 AM
Three ballots in and tabulated.

It is always interesting to compile the ballots in the week following a loss by a consensus #1 (Midd had 24 of 25 firsts in the real poll; 7 of 9 in ours).  Our top seven so far (without, of course, revealing who they are) have 72, 70, 69, 65, 64, 61, and 60 points (then 50, 50, 47, and 45).

The top of the poll is WIDE open, so keep those ballots coming! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hopester on February 07, 2012, 03:00:28 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 06, 2012, 01:16:21 AM
Three ballots in and tabulated.

It is always interesting to compile the ballots in the week following a loss by a consensus #1 (Midd had 24 of 25 firsts in the real poll; 7 of 9 in ours).  Our top seven so far (without, of course, revealing who they are) have 72, 70, 69, 65, 64, 61, and 60 points (then 50, 50, 47, and 45).

The top of the poll is WIDE open, so keep those ballots coming! ;D

I may have hurt my very own teams chances of getting the toppest of spots.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 07, 2012, 03:08:15 PM
Mines in. Sure to be shredded by y'all again.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 07, 2012, 06:24:21 PM
Quote from: Hopester on February 07, 2012, 03:00:28 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 06, 2012, 01:16:21 AM
Three ballots in and tabulated.

It is always interesting to compile the ballots in the week following a loss by a consensus #1 (Midd had 24 of 25 firsts in the real poll; 7 of 9 in ours).  Our top seven so far (without, of course, revealing who they are) have 72, 70, 69, 65, 64, 61, and 60 points (then 50, 50, 47, and 45).

The top of the poll is WIDE open, so keep those ballots coming! ;D

I may have hurt my very own teams chances of getting the toppest of spots.
+1!

The idea is the get the poll "right", not to use the poll as a form of "boosterism".
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 07, 2012, 06:27:55 PM
We're now up to 11 (MUCH better than last week's 9), but we can do better!  Unless I hear from someone promising a later ballot, I'll begin in about an hour - still time to get to 12 or 13!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 07, 2012, 08:50:50 PM
Posters' Poll, thru 2-5-12

1.  Hope       262 (1,1,1,1,1,1,2,3,4,4,5)
2.  UWW       251 (1,1,2,3,3,3,3,4,4,4,7)
3.  Midd        241 (1,2,3,4,4,5,5,5,5,5,6)
4.  MIT         232 (1,2,3,3,4,4,4,6,7,7,13)
5.  Va Wes    220 (2,2,2,2,3,3,4,5,7,10,-)
6.  Amherst   216 (3,5,5,6,6,6,6,7,7,8,11)
7.  Whitworth 192 (5,6,7,8,8,8,8,8,11,11,12)
8.  UMHB       182 (2,6,6,7,8,8,8,9,10,15,25)
9.  UWSP       173 (1,7,8,9,9,10,11,11,12,15,20)
10. CMS        171 (2,5,9,9,10,10,10,10,11,13,-)
11. Cabrini     150 (6,8,8,8,9,12,12,13,15,19,-)
12. NYU         142 (9,9,10,12,12,12,15,15,16,16,18)
13. Woo         122 (11,11,13,13,14,14,14,14,19,19,22)
14. Transy      100 (10,13,14,16,16,16,16,18,20,21,-)
15. Witt           94 (10,11,13,15,16,18,19,20,20,24,-)
16. F & M         80 (14,14,15,15,16,16,18,21,25,-,-)
17. Willy Pat     74 (13,15,16,17,17,17,19,24,24,25,-)
18. Birm-S        72 (9,11,12,12,21,22,23,-,-,-,-)
19. Lake Forest  71 (7,12,14,14,18,22,24,-,-,-,-)
20. Wheaton     68 (12,15,17,19,19,20,22,22,23,23,-)
21. WashU        54 (2,17,19,20,20,24,-,-,-,-,-)
22. IWU            49 (13,17,18,21,21,21,23,25,-,-,-)
23. UWRF          45 (11,13,13,24,25,25,-,-,-,-,-)
24. RIC             44 (6,16,18,23,23,-,-,-,-,-,-)
25. Augie          38 (17,18,19,21,21,22,-,-,-,-,-)

26  Keene St.    34 (10,17,21,24,25,25)
27  Emory         33 (17,18,20,22,22,24)
28  Albert M      27 (14,19,21,23)
29  Oswego St.  25 (15,20,23,24,24,25)
30  E Conn        23 (14,17,24)
31  WPI            22 (7,23)
32  Williams       16 (17,22,23)
33  NCC            12 (18,22)
34  Grinnell        10 (20,22)
35  St. Joseph's  8 (18)
36  W Conn        7 (19)
37  Buff St.        6 (20)
38  Wesleyan     5 (21)
39  Randy Mac    3 (23)
t40 Keystone      1
t40 Hartwick       1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: frodotwo on February 07, 2012, 10:00:54 PM
Some real head scratchers in the poll this week.

UWSP #1 - a 4 loss team ahead of Hope? And I had them 11th as a die hard fan!
CMS #2 & #5 - Only one loss but not much of a resume
Wash U #2 - Ahead of almost everyone else?? At 16-5?
RIC #6 - They are only 4th place in their own conference and just lost to a sub .500 team?
WPI #7 - Only on 2 ballots total
Lake Forest #7 - I like the Foresters but not Top Ten like.

Not meaning to question anyone else's opinions but curious as to why these are so far out of the rest of the pollsters' picks??
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 07, 2012, 10:29:23 PM
Quote from: frodotwo on February 07, 2012, 10:00:54 PM
Some real head scratchers in the poll this week.

UWSP #1 - a 4 loss team ahead of Hope? And I had them 11th as a die hard fan!
CMS #2 & #5 - Only one loss but not much of a resume
Wash U #2 - Ahead of almost everyone else?? At 16-5?
RIC #6 - They are only 4th place in their own conference and just lost to a sub .500 team?
WPI #7 - Only on 2 ballots total
Lake Forest #7 - I like the Foresters but not Top Ten like.

Not meaning to question anyone else's opinions but curious as to why these are so far out of the rest of the pollsters' picks??

CMS and Lake Forest probably aren't all that out of line in an opinion poll.   They both show up rather well in the massey.com ratings.    http://masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cb&sub=11620

I scratched my head at Washington #2 at 16-5 as well.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 07, 2012, 10:37:09 PM
Quote from: frodotwo on February 07, 2012, 10:00:54 PM
Some real head scratchers in the poll this week.

UWSP #1 - a 4 loss team ahead of Hope? And I had them 11th as a die hard fan!
CMS #2 & #5 - Only one loss but not much of a resume
Wash U #2 - Ahead of almost everyone else?? At 16-5?
RIC #6 - They are only 4th place in their own conference and just lost to a sub .500 team?
WPI #7 - Only on 2 ballots total
Lake Forest #7 - I like the Foresters but not Top Ten like.

Not meaning to question anyone else's opinions but curious as to why these are so far out of the rest of the pollsters' picks??

What would UWSP's record be if they played Va Wes' schedule?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 07, 2012, 10:48:25 PM
How well would UWSP match up against those teams? The individual match-ups sometimes outweigh the raw power numbers.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 07, 2012, 11:43:12 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 07, 2012, 10:37:09 PM
Quote from: frodotwo on February 07, 2012, 10:00:54 PM
Some real head scratchers in the poll this week.

UWSP #1 - a 4 loss team ahead of Hope? And I had them 11th as a die hard fan!
CMS #2 & #5 - Only one loss but not much of a resume
Wash U #2 - Ahead of almost everyone else?? At 16-5?
RIC #6 - They are only 4th place in their own conference and just lost to a sub .500 team?
WPI #7 - Only on 2 ballots total
Lake Forest #7 - I like the Foresters but not Top Ten like.

Not meaning to question anyone else's opinions but curious as to why these are so far out of the rest of the pollsters' picks??

What would UWSP's record be if they played Va Wes' schedule?
Quote from: smedindy on February 07, 2012, 10:48:25 PM
How well would UWSP match up against those teams? The individual match-ups sometimes outweigh the raw power numbers.

My policy is never to 'out' voters, but I think everyone who pays attention here knows you are the one who left Va Wes off the ballot (with a majority of voters putting them either 2nd or 3rd, you single-handedly dropped them to 5th - the perils of an overly small poll :P).  Now you bring them in although they had not been mentioned in the post you responded to.  They beat a very good Randy Mac team (that you voted for), they beat a very good HSC team (AT HSC) by 20; they have other significant wins and the ODAC has been a 'power conference' for the last decade or so.  How is their schedule so soft?

Did a Va Wes grad run over your puppy?  steal your GF? ::)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 08, 2012, 06:41:13 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 07, 2012, 11:43:12 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 07, 2012, 10:37:09 PM
Quote from: frodotwo on February 07, 2012, 10:00:54 PM
Some real head scratchers in the poll this week.

UWSP #1 - a 4 loss team ahead of Hope? And I had them 11th as a die hard fan!
CMS #2 & #5 - Only one loss but not much of a resume
Wash U #2 - Ahead of almost everyone else?? At 16-5?
RIC #6 - They are only 4th place in their own conference and just lost to a sub .500 team?
WPI #7 - Only on 2 ballots total
Lake Forest #7 - I like the Foresters but not Top Ten like.

Not meaning to question anyone else's opinions but curious as to why these are so far out of the rest of the pollsters' picks??

What would UWSP's record be if they played Va Wes' schedule?
Quote from: smedindy on February 07, 2012, 10:48:25 PM
How well would UWSP match up against those teams? The individual match-ups sometimes outweigh the raw power numbers.

My policy is never to 'out' voters, but I think everyone who pays attention here knows you are the one who left Va Wes off the ballot (with a majority of voters putting them either 2nd or 3rd, you single-handedly dropped them to 5th - the perils of an overly small poll :P).  Now you bring them in although they had not been mentioned in the post you responded to.  They beat a very good Randy Mac team (that you voted for), they beat a very good HSC team (AT HSC) by 20; they have other significant wins and the ODAC has been a 'power conference' for the last decade or so.  How is their schedule so soft?

Did a Va Wes grad run over your puppy?  steal your GF? ::)

Massey rates their schedule at #146, so I'm not the only one that thinks they have a mediocre-ish schedule.

I just get nervous about a Top 25 team that derives so much of their value from running up the score against middling competition. And let's be honest with ourselves, the ODAC is not what it was the last few years (not even close really).

I'm just trying to look past "OMG 20-2 is better than 18-4"!

Oh, and I'm not a dog person, and I'm married to the only GF I've ever had. :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 08, 2012, 06:44:50 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 07, 2012, 11:43:12 PM
My policy is never to 'out' voters, but I think everyone who pays attention here knows you are the one who left Va Wes off the ballot (with a majority of voters putting them either 2nd or 3rd, you single-handedly dropped them to 5th - the perils of an overly small poll :P).  Now you bring them in although they had not been mentioned in the post you responded to.  They beat a very good Randy Mac team (that you voted for), they beat a very good HSC team (AT HSC) by 20; they have other significant wins and the ODAC has been a 'power conference' for the last decade or so.  How is their schedule so soft?

Did a Va Wes grad run over your puppy?  steal your GF? ::)

And what is that supposed to mean? If I had voted them 10th, as someone else did, then they would have only bumped up one spot! I'm sure there are plenty of other voters that 'single-handedly' moved a team by one spot.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 08, 2012, 08:36:43 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 08, 2012, 06:44:50 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 07, 2012, 11:43:12 PM
My policy is never to 'out' voters, but I think everyone who pays attention here knows you are the one who left Va Wes off the ballot (with a majority of voters putting them either 2nd or 3rd, you single-handedly dropped them to 5th - the perils of an overly small poll :P).  Now you bring them in although they had not been mentioned in the post you responded to.  They beat a very good Randy Mac team (that you voted for), they beat a very good HSC team (AT HSC) by 20; they have other significant wins and the ODAC has been a 'power conference' for the last decade or so.  How is their schedule so soft?

Did a Va Wes grad run over your puppy?  steal your GF? ::)

And what is that supposed to mean? If I had voted them 10th, as someone else did, then they would have only bumped up one spot! I'm sure there are plenty of other voters that 'single-handedly' moved a team by one spot.
I have a hard time imagining an ODAC that is so "down" that they do not have a single team that is not at least Top 22 which is what I deduce from the balloting.

I could have accepted a VWC at #10 or even #12.

As for indexes, I don't think that they are as "solid" in D-III as in D-1.  There is just not enough inter-region play!

Thanks to all for the discussion.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 08, 2012, 08:59:10 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 08, 2012, 08:36:43 AM
I have a hard time imagining an ODAC that is so "down" that they do not have a single team that is not at least Top 22 which is what I deduce from the balloting.

Yeah, but you're spinning the data to make it look like I "hate the ODAC". I have them with two teams in the Top 30. That's still good. What I meant is that they were at top 2,3,4 type league, and they're just not that right now.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 08, 2012, 10:58:03 AM
The ODAC seems to have an abnormal number of losses to USA South schools.  Pretty sure they've mostly dominated that conference in years past.   Massey's index is also counting 4 or 5 losses to D1 schools that should have been exhibitions, so the league is probably a little higher ranked than the #14 conference massey has them right now.




By the way this little gem of a score happened last night.   Hampden Sydney 140 Patrick Henry 40...guh!! :o

http://hscathletics.com/sports/mbkb/2011-12/boxscores/20120207_360y.xml


Current Patrick Henry assistant coach and former North Carolina Tar Heel J.R. Reid was probably not impressed.  PH is a junior college so I have no idea why H-S is playing this game let alone counting it. ???
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 08, 2012, 12:21:34 PM
My gosh, that box score is full of win. (Or fail, depending...)

I especially like it (or not) that Hampden Sydney couldn't be bothered to get Patrick Henry's record in the box score. But a look at a roster shows they have juniors and seniors. I think this is the college built for home-schooled evangelicals, not a juco.

http://www.phc.edu/bball_m_stats.php

And of course, they spell Hampden Sydney wrong on their schedule. Yeesh.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 08, 2012, 12:50:10 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 08, 2012, 12:21:34 PM
My gosh, that box score is full of win. (Or fail, depending...)

I especially like it (or not) that Hampden Sydney couldn't be bothered to get Patrick Henry's record in the box score. But a look at a roster shows they have juniors and seniors. I think this is the college built for home-schooled evangelicals, not a juco.

http://www.phc.edu/bball_m_stats.php

And of course, they spell Hampden Sydney wrong on their schedule. Yeesh.

Oh well wait, I guess J.R. Reid wouldn't have cared one bit as apparently there is also a Patrick Henry Community College.

http://www.phccsports.com/RosterMBasketball.html  it wasn't these guys. :-[
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 08, 2012, 01:51:15 PM
I think the ODAC problem with Massey (in addition to the d1 exhibitions counted as real games) is that the bottom teams seem to have fallen back after several seemed on the rise.  Overall, the conference is not what it was (though I think considerably above #14), but I would match a top four of Va Wes, Randy Mac, HSC, and Guilford up against nearly any other top four.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 08, 2012, 07:30:20 PM
Just to throw my two cents into the VA Wesleyan discussion... I will assume if they're left off the ballot then other teams in the top 25 left off would likely include (and I only looked at teams actually left off a ballot) Transy, Franklin & Marshall, Cabrini, Birmingham Southern, and William Paterson.

I was surprised to see everyone who made the top 20 was on my ballot... and then none in 21-25 were. Maybe I'm not such an outlier after all ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 10, 2012, 05:35:15 PM

Because we often lack cross-regional comparisons, teams like MIT and VAWes, who have lots of talent back on teams that proved themselves in the tournament get an advantage from some people (me included).

We don't know how good a team is until they get well into the post-season.  We can only guess.  VAWes brings back a lot of talent; they've been winning games for the most part, albeit with some erratic results.

It's not like any other team is just lighting it up this year.  We lack a real front runner more than any year in recent memory.  It's all hit or miss.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 12, 2012, 05:17:34 PM
I need to figure out a new way to vote.  I'm really dissatisfied with how things are going.  I think there's a lot of 4 and 5 loss teams in mediocre conferences who are better than the 1 and 2 loss teams in bad conferences.  I'm just not sure how to exactly tell which ones are real and which are pretenders.

I guess what I'm saying is, I wouldn't be all that disappointed if Ypsi decided to end the poster's poll run this year.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 12, 2012, 05:26:29 PM
Hoops Fan,

A. Don't sweat it. It's just a poll and it's supposed to be FUN, not ulcer-inducing. So just relax.
B. I try not to use pre-conceived notions about 'good' conferences and 'bad' conferences.
C. I try not to penalize good teams in bad conferences that much - they can't control the conference schedule.
D. The more votes, the more voices.

I guess I'm saying that there's NO reason to be dissatisfied or upset. It's a fun little exercise and no one is demanding that you are perfect with your thoughts. Again, it's FUN!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 12, 2012, 06:27:35 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 12, 2012, 05:17:34 PM
I need to figure out a new way to vote.  I'm really dissatisfied with how things are going.  I think there's a lot of 4 and 5 loss teams in mediocre conferences who are better than the 1 and 2 loss teams in bad conferences.  I'm just not sure how to exactly tell which ones are real and which are pretenders.

I guess what I'm saying is, I wouldn't be all that disappointed if Ypsi decided to end the poster's poll run this year.

Thanks for submitting a ballot despite your reservations!  I was afraid your were giving a 'farewell address', and I can't afford to lose any voters! ;D

Like smed says, relax and have fun!  Afterall, we aren't the 'real' poll, with millions of dollars hanging the balance!  (Oh, wait, this is d3, not the BCS! 8-))
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: frodotwo on February 12, 2012, 09:13:09 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 12, 2012, 06:27:35 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 12, 2012, 05:17:34 PM
I need to figure out a new way to vote.  I'm really dissatisfied with how things are going.  I think there's a lot of 4 and 5 loss teams in mediocre conferences who are better than the 1 and 2 loss teams in bad conferences.  I'm just not sure how to exactly tell which ones are real and which are pretenders.

I guess what I'm saying is, I wouldn't be all that disappointed if Ypsi decided to end the poster's poll run this year.

Thanks for submitting a ballot despite your reservations!  I was afraid your were giving a 'farewell address', and I can't afford to lose any voters! ;D

Like smed says, relax and have fun!  Afterall, we aren't the 'real' poll, with millions of dollars hanging the balance!  (Oh, wait, this is d3, not the BCS! 8-))

No different than me or many of us I suspect. I don't think there are more than a dozen teams I am certain belong high in the poll. But maybe I'm missing some that should be higher. It's fun matching wits with all of us experts though right??
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 12, 2012, 09:32:16 PM
Mine is in.

There is lots of parity beneath the top 15-20.

This should be a very interesting tournament.

This year's UMHB team is very, very good.  They will host the ASC tourney this season.  I think that they might finish 27-1.

I think that the BSC wins the SCAC and no Pool C bid comes from the ASC or Trinity.

I still don't see how they can host a Sectional as a travel orphan.  Hosting a second round game might be possible for UMHB.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 13, 2012, 09:31:25 PM
Good news: I received 5 ballots yesterday, a new Sunday record. ;D

Bad news: I received only ONE more ballot today so far.  I trust MANY more are enroute?! 8-)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 13, 2012, 09:36:15 PM

After seeing the real poll, I'm not so upset about my own.  I still don't like the bottom, but what can you do?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 14, 2012, 12:27:06 AM
AAARGH!!  WORST. MONDAY. EVER.

(In the PP; I'm sure I've had far worse in real life! 8-))

Still only 6 ballots.  Tomorrow IS another day (thanks, Scarlett ;)).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Coach C on February 14, 2012, 09:27:37 AM
As someone who does vote on the 'real' poll, I can tell you that I also have concerns about some of the 1-2 loss teams being very high in the rankings when there are 4-5 loss teams that seem to have had some better wins and play in traditionally stronger conferences. One of the metrics that I tend to look at closely is what road wins does a team have over teams that are above .500.  I have not looked at a Massey ranking in years. I will take a gander at the SOS calc, but when it comes down to choosing between teams, my 'go-to' determinant is what tough teams have they beaten on the road.

I read this thread every week and am always impressed with the knowledge of the voters and the thought that they put into their ballots.  i hope the tradition continues!

C
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 14, 2012, 10:19:26 AM
Quote from: Coach C on February 14, 2012, 09:27:37 AM
As someone who does vote on the 'real' poll, I can tell you that I also have concerns about some of the 1-2 loss teams being very high in the rankings when there are 4-5 loss teams that seem to have had some better wins and play in traditionally stronger conferences. One of the metrics that I tend to look at closely is what road wins does a team have over teams that are above .500.  I have not looked at a Massey ranking in years. I will take a gander at the SOS calc, but when it comes down to choosing between teams, my 'go-to' determinant is what tough teams have they beaten on the road.

I read this thread every week and am always impressed with the knowledge of the voters and the thought that they put into their ballots.  i hope the tradition continues!

C

I get that, but usually it's easier to know who the tough teams are going to be early on.

We all thought Williams, Marietta, even Wooster were going to be better than they are - none of those teams has really beaten anybody of note.  We've also got many more teams gearing up in February who had abysmal Decembers.

I'm tempted to think 7 loss North Central might just be a top ten team right now - but there's just no way to tell.

WashU was uninspired when they played the big name teams on their schedule, but they seem a little frisky now - although that could just be because the UAA is down this year.  We just don't know.

Birmingham-Southern has played close games with terrible teams, whereas MIT hasn't really.  But is margin of victory over bad teams really a good determinant?  Who knows.  I watched Cabrini play last year, and despite the solid tourney run, they didn't actually look like a great team (and lost their second best player and charismatic leader).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hugenerd on February 14, 2012, 10:37:59 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 14, 2012, 10:19:26 AM
Quote from: Coach C on February 14, 2012, 09:27:37 AM
As someone who does vote on the 'real' poll, I can tell you that I also have concerns about some of the 1-2 loss teams being very high in the rankings when there are 4-5 loss teams that seem to have had some better wins and play in traditionally stronger conferences. One of the metrics that I tend to look at closely is what road wins does a team have over teams that are above .500.  I have not looked at a Massey ranking in years. I will take a gander at the SOS calc, but when it comes down to choosing between teams, my 'go-to' determinant is what tough teams have they beaten on the road.

I read this thread every week and am always impressed with the knowledge of the voters and the thought that they put into their ballots.  i hope the tradition continues!

C

I get that, but usually it's easier to know who the tough teams are going to be early on.

We all thought Williams, Marietta, even Wooster were going to be better than they are - none of those teams has really beaten anybody of note.  We've also got many more teams gearing up in February who had abysmal Decembers.

I'm tempted to think 7 loss North Central might just be a top ten team right now - but there's just no way to tell.

WashU was uninspired when they played the big name teams on their schedule, but they seem a little frisky now - although that could just be because the UAA is down this year.  We just don't know.

Birmingham-Southern has played close games with terrible teams, whereas MIT hasn't really.  But is margin of victory over bad teams really a good determinant?  Who knows.  I watched Cabrini play last year, and despite the solid tourney run, they didn't actually look like a great team (and lost their second best player and charismatic leader).

MIT is 12-1 against teams with at least a 0.500 record (not counting head-to-head; in other words, a team like Clark which is 11-12, with 2 of those losses to MIT, counts as 11-10 when considering their in-region record when computing stats for MIT, which is how the NCAA does it).  They have a few games against teams with really bad WPs (UMB, Emerson), which is driving down their OWP value, but MIT has as many wins over teams with 0.500 or better records as any team in the NE, and the best winning percentage of those games of any team (Amherst 12-2, Middlebury 12-2, WPI 12-3).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 14, 2012, 10:52:49 AM
Conference play is always a tough gauge because teams know each other so well. Even a mediocre team can give an excellent team fits by good scouting and a good game plan.

Plus there is the age-old match-up issue.

I love metrics like Massey but I don't hold the power ranking line when voting. Take a team like Denison - now they are playing like the should have played all season. They had the talent but couldn't close anyone out. However, I do not want to face them in the NCAC tourney now. So I put Wabash back into my Top 25 this week because they are worthy (and Wooster did beat them, so that's SOMEONE of note, cough, cough), and that loss to Denison isn't such a bad loss now.

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 14, 2012, 11:14:19 AM
Quote from: Hugenerd on February 14, 2012, 10:37:59 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 14, 2012, 10:19:26 AM
Quote from: Coach C on February 14, 2012, 09:27:37 AM
As someone who does vote on the 'real' poll, I can tell you that I also have concerns about some of the 1-2 loss teams being very high in the rankings when there are 4-5 loss teams that seem to have had some better wins and play in traditionally stronger conferences. One of the metrics that I tend to look at closely is what road wins does a team have over teams that are above .500.  I have not looked at a Massey ranking in years. I will take a gander at the SOS calc, but when it comes down to choosing between teams, my 'go-to' determinant is what tough teams have they beaten on the road.

I read this thread every week and am always impressed with the knowledge of the voters and the thought that they put into their ballots.  i hope the tradition continues!

C

I get that, but usually it's easier to know who the tough teams are going to be early on.

We all thought Williams, Marietta, even Wooster were going to be better than they are - none of those teams has really beaten anybody of note.  We've also got many more teams gearing up in February who had abysmal Decembers.

I'm tempted to think 7 loss North Central might just be a top ten team right now - but there's just no way to tell.

WashU was uninspired when they played the big name teams on their schedule, but they seem a little frisky now - although that could just be because the UAA is down this year.  We just don't know.

Birmingham-Southern has played close games with terrible teams, whereas MIT hasn't really.  But is margin of victory over bad teams really a good determinant?  Who knows.  I watched Cabrini play last year, and despite the solid tourney run, they didn't actually look like a great team (and lost their second best player and charismatic leader).

MIT is 12-1 against teams with at least a 0.500 record (not counting head-to-head; in other words, a team like Clark which is 11-12, with 2 of those losses to MIT, counts as 11-10 when considering their in-region record when computing stats for MIT, which is how the NCAA does it).  They have a few games against teams with really bad WPs (UMB, Emerson), which is driving down their OWP value, but MIT has as many wins over teams with 0.500 or better records as any team in the NE, and the best winning percentage of those games of any team (Amherst 12-2, Middlebury 12-2, WPI 12-3).

I don't use the OWP and OOWP like the NCAA does, because it disproportionately helps the NE region teams.  Sure, it's my home region, but it's true.  When you've got more teams crammed into a small space there are going to be more teams who load up a good record playing terrible opponents (who are also improving their records by playing terrible opponents).  It just brings the values to artificial heights.

Magnus is a great example this year.  They play in a conference with bad teams, so they've got a good record secured there.  But if they were in the Midwest, for example, there just aren't as many bad teams to schedule (even if you're not scheduling them on purpose, you still end up with more bad teams because more bad teams exist).  There's no way they would be 22-1 without so many middling teams.  There are a number of teams on their schedule with inflated records for the same reason.

I just don't think those numbers give us an accurate reflection of the quality across regions.  It works just fine within a region, but the comparison across regions isn't influential for me.

I have to find some other criteria to use - at this point we're sort of stuck with "how good are the teams you beat and how bad are the teams to whom you lost?"
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 14, 2012, 11:42:39 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 14, 2012, 11:14:19 AM
Quote from: Hugenerd on February 14, 2012, 10:37:59 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 14, 2012, 10:19:26 AM
Quote from: Coach C on February 14, 2012, 09:27:37 AM
As someone who does vote on the 'real' poll, I can tell you that I also have concerns about some of the 1-2 loss teams being very high in the rankings when there are 4-5 loss teams that seem to have had some better wins and play in traditionally stronger conferences. One of the metrics that I tend to look at closely is what road wins does a team have over teams that are above .500.  I have not looked at a Massey ranking in years. I will take a gander at the SOS calc, but when it comes down to choosing between teams, my 'go-to' determinant is what tough teams have they beaten on the road.

I read this thread every week and am always impressed with the knowledge of the voters and the thought that they put into their ballots.  i hope the tradition continues!

C

I get that, but usually it's easier to know who the tough teams are going to be early on.

We all thought Williams, Marietta, even Wooster were going to be better than they are - none of those teams has really beaten anybody of note.  We've also got many more teams gearing up in February who had abysmal Decembers.

I'm tempted to think 7 loss North Central might just be a top ten team right now - but there's just no way to tell.

WashU was uninspired when they played the big name teams on their schedule, but they seem a little frisky now - although that could just be because the UAA is down this year.  We just don't know.

Birmingham-Southern has played close games with terrible teams, whereas MIT hasn't really.  But is margin of victory over bad teams really a good determinant?  Who knows.  I watched Cabrini play last year, and despite the solid tourney run, they didn't actually look like a great team (and lost their second best player and charismatic leader).

MIT is 12-1 against teams with at least a 0.500 record (not counting head-to-head; in other words, a team like Clark which is 11-12, with 2 of those losses to MIT, counts as 11-10 when considering their in-region record when computing stats for MIT, which is how the NCAA does it).  They have a few games against teams with really bad WPs (UMB, Emerson), which is driving down their OWP value, but MIT has as many wins over teams with 0.500 or better records as any team in the NE, and the best winning percentage of those games of any team (Amherst 12-2, Middlebury 12-2, WPI 12-3).

I don't use the OWP and OOWP like the NCAA does, because it disproportionately helps the NE region teams.  Sure, it's my home region, but it's true.  When you've got more teams crammed into a small space there are going to be more teams who load up a good record playing terrible opponents (who are also improving their records by playing terrible opponents).  It just brings the values to artificial heights.

Magnus is a great example this year.  They play in a conference with bad teams, so they've got a good record secured there.  But if they were in the Midwest, for example, there just aren't as many bad teams to schedule (even if you're not scheduling them on purpose, you still end up with more bad teams because more bad teams exist).  There's no way they would be 22-1 without so many middling teams.  There are a number of teams on their schedule with inflated records for the same reason.

I just don't think those numbers give us an accurate reflection of the quality across regions.  It works just fine within a region, but the comparison across regions isn't influential for me.

I have to find some other criteria to use - at this point we're sort of stuck with "how good are the teams you beat and how bad are the teams to whom you lost?"

The NESCAC not playing a round robin helps those teams have better records than they would as well.

In general winning % is a terrible way to determine a teams strength in a division with very few cross sectional games.  It works for D1 because teams travel all over the place and play half a dozen more regular season contests. 



I use massey only for its schedule strength, and only as a way to filter teams that have played decidedly less than stellar schedules.   Off the top of my head F&M is one I've held back strictly because their schedule is so much weaker compared to other teams I'd consider ranking.  Birminghm Southern is another.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 14, 2012, 12:24:01 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 14, 2012, 11:14:19 AM
I don't use the OWP and OOWP like the NCAA does, because it disproportionately helps the NE region teams.  Sure, it's my home region, but it's true.  When you've got more teams crammed into a small space there are going to be more teams who load up a good record playing terrible opponents (who are also improving their records by playing terrible opponents).  It just brings the values to artificial heights.

Magnus is a great example this year.  They play in a conference with bad teams, so they've got a good record secured there.  But if they were in the Midwest, for example, there just aren't as many bad teams to schedule (even if you're not scheduling them on purpose, you still end up with more bad teams because more bad teams exist).  There's no way they would be 22-1 without so many middling teams.  There are a number of teams on their schedule with inflated records for the same reason.

I just don't think those numbers give us an accurate reflection of the quality across regions.  It works just fine within a region, but the comparison across regions isn't influential for me.

I have to find some other criteria to use - at this point we're sort of stuck with "how good are the teams you beat and how bad are the teams to whom you lost?"

I don't quite understand your point. Using straight up RPI (.25 x WP + .5 x OWP + .25 x OOWP), Albertus Magnus is #48 in the nation (using all D3 games, and only D3 games). Their SOS (2/3 OWP + 1/3 OOWP) is .462, which is the 19th percentile. OWP and OOWP definitely does recognize that they've played "so many middling teams".

[EDIT] OK, I think I see what you mean now. If a team played Albertus Magnus, they'd receive an SOS component of .776. If they played UW-Stevens Point, they'd receive an SOS component of .740. So even though UWSP is probably a better team (and has a much better RPI), it "looks" like an easier game due to the formula.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 14, 2012, 03:20:17 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 14, 2012, 12:24:01 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 14, 2012, 11:14:19 AM
I don't use the OWP and OOWP like the NCAA does, because it disproportionately helps the NE region teams.  Sure, it's my home region, but it's true.  When you've got more teams crammed into a small space there are going to be more teams who load up a good record playing terrible opponents (who are also improving their records by playing terrible opponents).  It just brings the values to artificial heights.

Magnus is a great example this year.  They play in a conference with bad teams, so they've got a good record secured there.  But if they were in the Midwest, for example, there just aren't as many bad teams to schedule (even if you're not scheduling them on purpose, you still end up with more bad teams because more bad teams exist).  There's no way they would be 22-1 without so many middling teams.  There are a number of teams on their schedule with inflated records for the same reason.

I just don't think those numbers give us an accurate reflection of the quality across regions.  It works just fine within a region, but the comparison across regions isn't influential for me.

I have to find some other criteria to use - at this point we're sort of stuck with "how good are the teams you beat and how bad are the teams to whom you lost?"

I don't quite understand your point. Using straight up RPI (.25 x WP + .5 x OWP + .25 x OOWP), Albertus Magnus is #48 in the nation (using all D3 games, and only D3 games). Their SOS (2/3 OWP + 1/3 OOWP) is .462, which is the 19th percentile. OWP and OOWP definitely does recognize that they've played "so many middling teams".

[EDIT] OK, I think I see what you mean now. If a team played Albertus Magnus, they'd receive an SOS component of .776. If they played UW-Stevens Point, they'd receive an SOS component of .740. So even though UWSP is probably a better team (and has a much better RPI), it "looks" like an easier game due to the formula.

Yup, this especially benefits those teams at the top of the food chain - (cough, cough - NESCAC).  The effect gets smaller as you go down.  Teams with good records are generally good, just not usually as good as their records make them out to be, especially when compared across regional borders.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 14, 2012, 04:01:49 PM
Only about 3 hours to go (unless someone requests an extension), and merely SEVEN ballots in. :-[
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 14, 2012, 07:04:19 PM
Much better!  Now at nine and awaiting one more promised ballot.

Last chance for someone to request an extension.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 14, 2012, 07:22:40 PM
Mr. Y,
I'm working on one and should get it to you within an hour.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 14, 2012, 09:26:37 PM
Posters' Poll, thru games of 2-12-12:

1.  Hope      269 (1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2,3)
2.  Amherst  254 (1,1,2,2,2,2,3,3,4,6,6)
3.  MIT        238 (1,2,2,3,3,3,4,4,4,11,11)
4.  Midd       233 (3,3,3,3,4,4,4,6,7,8,8)
5.  UWW      207 (3,5,5,6,6,7,9,9,9,10,10)
6.  UMHB      206 (1,4,5,5,5,7,7,8,8,12,18)
7.  Whitwoth 196 (5,5,7,7,7,8,9,10,10,10,12)
8.  Va Wes    193 (5,5,5,6,6,6,6,9,9,14,22)
t9  CMS        178 (2,4,7,8,9,9,10,10,11,12,-)
t9  UWSP      178 (1,7,8,8,9,10,10,11,12,13.19)
11 Cabrini      155 (4,6,7,8,8,11,12,14,16,19,-)
12 Transy      121 (10,11,12,13,13,13,14,15,16,24,24)
13 Willy Pat   103 (12,13,14,14,15,16,17,18,19,19,-)
14 F & M       101 (12,12,14,14,14,15,18,18,19,23,-)
15 Woo          96 (13,14,15,15,16,17,17,17,17,23,-)
16 Lake Forest 93 (5,12,13,13,15,18,21,21,23,-,-)
17 WashU       85 (4,14,15,17,18,19,20,21,23,24,-)
18 Birm-S       79 (11,11,11,13,17,19,22,25,-,-,-)
19 Witt          76 (9,12,14,16,16,19,21,25,-,-,-)
20 UWRF        72 (6,9,11,20,22,22,23,23,-,-,-)
21 Oswego      59 (13,13,17,18,20,21,21,-,-,-,-)
22 Emory        51 (15,15,18,18,20,20,25,-,-,-,-)
23 Wheaton    50 (11,17,20,21,22,22,23,24,24,-,-)
24 AlbertusM   43 (15,16,19,20,22,24,24,25,-,-,-)
25 Augie         38 (15,16,18,20,23,-,-,-,-,-,-)

26 Randy Mac  37 (17,19,19,21,22,23,24)
27 WPI           23 (7,22)
28 RIC            18 (8)
29 NCC           17 (16,20,25)
30 W. Conn      16 (10)
31 Williams       15 (17,20)
t32 NYU           14 (16,24,24)
t32 Keene        14 (16 22)
34 Hartwick      13 (18,23,25,25)
35 IWU            11 (21,21,25)
36 Rochester      6 (20)
37 Grinnell          5 (21)
38 Staten Island  4 (22)
t39 Wabash        3 (24,25)
t39 UT-Dallas      3 (23)
t41 Medaille        1
t41 Wesleyan      1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 14, 2012, 09:36:15 PM
If I trade Augie for Williams, I have all 25 from the Posters' Poll.

Augie is on my watch list again.  It sure is hard to leave off Williams, tho', as strong as the NESCAC seems this year!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 15, 2012, 11:24:12 AM
I'm the high voter on Wittenberg at #9.  I've had reservations on just how good Witt is all year, in fact I'm still convinced Wooster is a statistically better team but Witt has won both games and almost every close game they've played.  Somehow they've navigated their conference better than anyone else has, a conference that has done well in the NCAA in recent years.


I don't understand the Rhode Island College #8 at all, what is that voter seeing that the rest of us aren't?


Cabrini and Birmingham Southern are off my ballot because their schedules are just poor, both in the bottom half of D3.  Frank & Marsh snuck in for me but their schedule is weak as well.  I have Mary Hardin-Baylor in the low teens, and also have reservations about the schedule and the ASC's history in the tournament.   


Like Ralph the CCIW has been a tough conference to rank for me.   I have Wheaton as the highest ranked CCIW team but I've also seen them in person.  This is the first week I didn't rank IWU, so I have just one CCIW which feels wrong.  Augustana is somewhat of an enigma, their transition games after losing Luke Scarlatta cost them some big losses.  They seem to have corrected those things but are still probably not the solid top 10 team they were with him, but still very good.  I left them off again this week, but I think they are close for me. 

I probably put a little more emphasis on the season as a whole, so North Central didn't make it.  Those early losses to Aurora, Albion, Simpson and UW-Platteville in the span of 5 games really hurt them.  I've been moving them up, they just haven't cracked my top 25.   I'm hoping it will be easier to rank the CCIW's over the next two weeks.

I'm not totally sure what to do with Washington(Mo) either, I have them mid-teens which is probably ok considering I hadn't been ranking them.  I may have moved them up a little bit more than I should have just to get them ahead of the other UAA's.  They currently have played the toughest D3 schedule according to massey taking out margin of victory.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 15, 2012, 11:29:20 AM
I don't think it's all the way fair to throw out two potentially excellent teams solely because of their schedules. Massey has Cabrini #17 despite their schedule and BSU #36 so it's not like they are pikers. I try not to discount them totally because winning is tough in conference.

It's hard to win that many games in conference despite the competition. Conference play has so many intangible factors (rivalry, scouting, matchups) that come into play besides the raw data.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 15, 2012, 11:44:11 AM
Quote from: smedindy on February 15, 2012, 11:29:20 AM
I don't think it's all the way fair to throw out two potentially excellent teams solely because of their schedules. Massey has Cabrini #17 despite their schedule and BSU #36 so it's not like they are pikers. I try not to discount them totally because winning is tough in conference.

It's hard to win that many games in conference despite the competition. Conference play has so many intangible factors (rivalry, scouting, matchups) that come into play besides the raw data.

I don't think most Mid-Atlantic teams could make it out of a first or second round in the Great Lakes or Mid-West in the tournament.  It will always be hard for me to believe those teams are really as good as their records say until I see a much better team on the floor.   Consistently the Mid-Atlantic team that makes Salem gets smacked around by a team West of the Ohio River, with few exceptions.


Also schedule isn't the sole reason, but its enough to keep them from making my top 25.  It doesn't help Cabrini that its sole loss is to Centre, KY, probably the 2nd best team in the SCAC.  Centre, KY is probably the best team Birmingham Southern has played this year.  I think Centre is 15-7 on the season.  So there is a connection.

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 15, 2012, 11:53:31 AM
"Making Salem" is not the same as "Top 25".

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 15, 2012, 11:56:54 AM
Quote from: smedindy on February 15, 2012, 11:53:31 AM
"Making Salem" is not the same as "Top 25".

Also true, but the path to get there is much different and frankly far easier than it is for the GL, MW and West.  I've seen half a dozen supposed top 25 Mid-Atlantic teams over the years and none have impressed me.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 15, 2012, 01:03:10 PM
But this isn't "other years", it's this year, these teams, this set of data.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 15, 2012, 01:33:29 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 15, 2012, 01:03:10 PM
But this isn't "other years", it's this year, these teams, this set of data.

My raw data has Cabrini around #20, their strength of schedule pushes them out.  Its as simple as that for me.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 15, 2012, 05:29:55 PM
Shouldn't the data incorporate SOS already? Or is your power rating blind to SOS when doing the computations?

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 16, 2012, 01:03:42 AM
Quote from: smedindy on February 15, 2012, 05:29:55 PM
Shouldn't the data incorporate SOS already? Or is your power rating blind to SOS when doing the computations?

It is blind but I do look at the numbers w/o SOS.

I like using Efficiency, its ok but its pretty useless unless you account for differences in schedule strength.  Massey is just the easiest to follow.  I've fiddled with it, and feel like I've arrived at something that gives me realistic rankings.  EFF is very good at grouping the good teams together but not necessarily at differentiating between them.   

Then I'll go through and move teams around if something looks out of whack to me, like for instance Augustana who still rates very high but is obviously not the same team they were 6 weeks ago.

One problem I do have to deal with is the numbers are also blind to on court results, such as Wooster rates higher than Wittenberg, all season in fact.  So I've had to adjust for Witt's two wins which cannot be discounted.

Its a hobby. :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 16, 2012, 09:12:52 AM
I just wanted to be sure you didn't double penalize (or praise) teams for playing their schedule.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 19, 2012, 05:36:46 PM

I'm in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 19, 2012, 07:42:25 PM
I am in but the bottom 1/3 was brutal to pick. No one wants a firm hold on those spots and there could be 40+ teams that have an argument.

Thank goodness for a tournament!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 20, 2012, 12:17:03 PM
I will submit mine late tonight.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 21, 2012, 10:32:18 AM
My message box was distressingly empty this morning.  We're stuck on SIX ballots, with only a few hours to go.  I'll expect an overflowing message inbox upon my return from bowling!

NOTE: our final regular-season poll is next week.  Then, just like the real poll, we'll be off until a final poll after Salem.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 21, 2012, 12:29:15 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 20, 2012, 12:17:03 PM
I will submit mine late tonight.
I sent mine last night.  It was relatively easy for me to get 25 names for which I could vote.

I am really looking forward to this season's tourney.  There is lots of balance and parity below the top 10, and I think that some of the top 10 have not had their serious challenges yet.

It has been a long time (?Mississippi College in 2007) since we have had a team to do as well as UMHB this season.  They have been tested by teams that match well with them. They have taken everyone's best shot and come right back at them.  (In an ASC of 16-teams, the conference has shown a propensity to diverisify in styles of play.  You can almost find a specific style of play by at least one team in the conference. Our weakness is that we don't have any big white Midwestern 6'9" centers as you see in the CCIW and WIAC in the conference.  Coach DeWeese mentioned Ryan Burkhardt from UMHB in Hoopsville the other night.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 21, 2012, 12:57:35 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 21, 2012, 10:32:18 AM
My message box was distressingly empty this morning.  We're stuck on SIX ballots, with only a few hours to go.  I'll expect an overflowing message inbox upon my return from bowling!

NOTE: our final regular-season poll is next week.  Then, just like the real poll, we'll be off until a final poll after Salem.

You can't rush excellence Mr. Y. ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 21, 2012, 04:07:12 PM
Quote from: sac on February 21, 2012, 12:57:35 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 21, 2012, 10:32:18 AM
My message box was distressingly empty this morning.  We're stuck on SIX ballots, with only a few hours to go.  I'll expect an overflowing message inbox upon my return from bowling!

NOTE: our final regular-season poll is next week.  Then, just like the real poll, we'll be off until a final poll after Salem.

You can't rush excellence Mr. Y. ;)

Received one while I was out, so up to 7.

Good news for seekers of excellence ;) (or simply procrastinators) - Mrs. Y has just announced that I am taking her out to dinner, so release of the poll will be delayed!  Hope to have it by 10 or 11.

(No one lacking a death wish argues with Mrs. Y. 8-))
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Knightstalker on February 21, 2012, 04:37:30 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 21, 2012, 04:07:12 PM
Quote from: sac on February 21, 2012, 12:57:35 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 21, 2012, 10:32:18 AM
My message box was distressingly empty this morning.  We're stuck on SIX ballots, with only a few hours to go.  I'll expect an overflowing message inbox upon my return from bowling!

NOTE: our final regular-season poll is next week.  Then, just like the real poll, we'll be off until a final poll after Salem.

You can't rush excellence Mr. Y. ;)

Received one while I was out, so up to 7.

Good news for seekers of excellence ;) (or simply procrastinators) - Mrs. Y has just announced that I am taking her out to dinner, so release of the poll will be delayed!  Hope to have it by 10 or 11.

(No one lacking a death wish argues with Mrs. Y. 8-))

Mr. Y  Honey, what did you make for dinner tonight?

Mrs. Y  RESERVATIONS, now get off that stupid computer and get changed.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 21, 2012, 05:21:27 PM
Quote from: Knightstalker on February 21, 2012, 04:37:30 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 21, 2012, 04:07:12 PM
Quote from: sac on February 21, 2012, 12:57:35 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 21, 2012, 10:32:18 AM
My message box was distressingly empty this morning.  We're stuck on SIX ballots, with only a few hours to go.  I'll expect an overflowing message inbox upon my return from bowling!

NOTE: our final regular-season poll is next week.  Then, just like the real poll, we'll be off until a final poll after Salem.

You can't rush excellence Mr. Y. ;)

Received one while I was out, so up to 7.

Good news for seekers of excellence ;) (or simply procrastinators) - Mrs. Y has just announced that I am taking her out to dinner, so release of the poll will be delayed!  Hope to have it by 10 or 11.

(No one lacking a death wish argues with Mrs. Y. 8-))

Mr. Y  Honey, what did you make for dinner tonight?

Mrs. Y  RESERVATIONS, now get off that stupid computer and get changed.

Aah, so you've met Mrs. Y! ;D

Though, actually, the place she has picked for the evening is a nearby bar, but with nationally recognized burgers (and who takes their motto from Benjamin Franklin: "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy").  They don't take reservations, I don't need to change, and we won't go until about the time I would otherwise post, so I don't need to get off here yet.  (But you DO have the routine learned well! 8-))
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 21, 2012, 05:30:52 PM
I've been on the road all day long. Just back in town but have the SUNYAC tournament to deal with. I'll try and egt one in at halftime.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 21, 2012, 09:53:31 PM
I'm back now, and sac, hugenerd, and magicman makes ten; I'll begin typing in about 20 minutes if no one else requests extra time.  Meanwhile I'll catch up on what I've missed on other boards!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 21, 2012, 11:27:24 PM
A disappointing ten ballots, but I think a defensible poll (though more orphans than I can shake a stick at - the bottom of the top 25 is WIDE open ;)):

February 19, 2012:

1.  Hope      243 (1,1,1,1,1,1,2,3,3,3)
2.  Amherst   238 (1,2,2,2,2,2,2,3,5,7)
3.  MIT        228 (1,1,2,3,3,3,3,4,4,8)
4.  Midd       215 (1,3,3,4,4,4,4,7,7,8)
5.  UMHB     197 (4,5,5,5,6,6,7,8,8,10)
6.  UWW      193 (2,5,6,6,6,8,8,8,8,10)
7.  VaWes    191 (5,5,5,6,6,6,7,8,9,12)
8.  Whitworth 181 (4,5,6,7,8,9,9,9,10,12)
9.  CMS       177 (2,4,7,9,9,9,9,10,11,13)
10. Cabrini    161 (4,5,6,7,8,10,10,11,12,-)
11. WillyPat   112 (11,11,12,13,13,14,16,16,16,-)
12. F & M      111 (10,12,12,12,13,13,13,18,20,-)
t13 Birm-S      94 (10,10,11,11,14,15,20,23,-,-)
t13 Woo         94 (12,13,13,14,14,14,15.19.-,-)
15. Oswego St 84 (10,12,14,16,17,17,19,20,25,-)
16. Transy       80 (15,15,15,16,16,17,19,20,21,-)
17. Witt          73 (9,11,13,14,19,20,23,-,-,-)
18. AlbertusM   72 (7,14,14,16,19,22,22,23,25,-)
19. WashU       66 (13,14,15,17,20,21,21,21,-,-)
t20 UWSP        62 (9,15,15,16,17,24,25,25,-,-)
t20 Wheaton    62 (11,17,18,18,19,20,21,22,-,-)
22. Augie         47 (15,15,18,19,22,23,23,-,-,-)
23. Lake Forest  46 (11.12.17.18.-,-,-,-,-,-)
24. Hartwick     33 (16,17,21,22,22,25,-,-,-,-)
t25 NCC           27 (16,17,20,24,-,-,-,-,-,-)
t25 IWU           27 (17,18,21,21,-,-,-,-,-,-)

27. Emory         23 (18,19,21,23)
28. UWRF         18 (11,23) 
29. RIC            16 (18,23,24,24,25)
30. Staten Isl.   10 (18,24)
t31 WPI             8 (20,24)
t31 NYU             8 (18)
t33 St. Thomas   7 (19)
t33 UT-Dallas     7 (19)
t35 Bethany       6 (22,25,25)
t35 Randy Mac    6 (22,24)
t35 W. Conn        6 (20)
t38 E. Conn        5 (22,25)
t38 Wesleyan      5 (21)
40. Whitman       4 (22)
t41 Medaille        3 (23)
T41 OWU           3 (23)
t43 Bethel          2 (24)
t43 Grinnell         2 (24)
t43 Hampden-S   2 (24)
46. Hardin-S       1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 21, 2012, 11:51:38 PM
Obviously, neither this poll nor the real poll could take into account tonite's game, but Wheaton smacked down Augie by THIRTY points.  Despite Augie's initial #2 national ranking, and #1 in the CCIW preseason coaches' poll, for several weeks now majority opinion in the conference is that Augie is only FOURTH in the CCIW.  Whether Wheaton or NCC is #1 is a matter of dispute.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 22, 2012, 12:41:42 AM
I knew this would be a tough poll.  My data has about 20 to 30 teams within a pretty small margin of each other after a pretty rock solid and season long steady top 8 or 10.  Its just a pretty big messy pile of teams to sort through.

Some full disclosure.....I'm your no voter on Cabrini, Wm. Patterson, F&M, Birmingham So., Transylvania, Oswego and Albertus Magnus.   Strength of schedule is the culprit, all are just outside that rankable range for me, even if they did make my poll it would only make a couple points difference in either direction.  Transylvania was actually my last one out so to speak.

I'm pretty high on all 4 CCIW schools, but I found no justification for ranking Augustana this week.  I'm the high voter on all 3 CCIW's in the poll Wheaton.  These four teams are pretty strong when compared to the rest of D3.

High voter on Wittenberg.  Won the NCAC and the 3 or 4 times I've been able to watch them they did enough to convince me they're pretty good.


Ultimately at the bottom of my poll I took a couple flyers, 1 or 2 in retrospect I probably shouldn't have. 

At least in how I'm doing things I'm seeing a strong representation from the West, Midwest and Great Lakes.  History has also shown this to be the case, so it doesn't bother me.


I'm sure people are wondering, but I have Hope #3  :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 22, 2012, 05:23:33 AM
I believe the most teams we've had on every ballot in a single week is just 10 teams and I think 46 receiving votes is a new high this season. With so many teams fairly close together in the 15-45 range, Selection Monday (we need a new alliterative name for it... how about... Moratorium Monday? Make it or break it Monday?) should be interesting.

I'm rather surprised at how well my ballot has begun to match the overall poll... I had 22 of the top 24 on my ballot (I didn't have Witt and WashU, while not in the top 25 but on my ballot were Staten Island, Medaille, and Grinnell). My only major outliers are that I have CMS up at 2, VaWes down at 12, and Staten Island up at 18.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 25, 2012, 09:58:39 PM
FYI: With all the distractions of tournament brackets (and knowing that a number of voters will also be concentrating on the Fantasy draft), I'm not even going to attempt to get a poll out before Wednesday evening.  Hopefully that extra time will give EVERYONE a chance to submit a ballot sometime between Sunday and Wednesday!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 25, 2012, 11:14:04 PM
Oh, and don't get overly distracted by the brackets as you make out your ballot.  Pretty much every year at least 1 or 2 (deservedly, IMO) top 25 teams don't get selected.  Tournament selection and top 25 voting are two very different things! ::)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 26, 2012, 04:17:05 PM

I'm working now, but if its not done in the next hour, it may not come until Wednesday.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 26, 2012, 05:37:02 PM

I got it done.  I had very few unexpected losses in my poll.  I put Amherst #1 for the first time this year.  They looked really strong today.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 26, 2012, 05:45:48 PM
Waiting on Darryl...  ;)

He has been so helpful to me this season.
+1! Darryl!

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 27, 2012, 12:04:35 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 26, 2012, 05:45:48 PM
Waiting on Darryl...  ;)

He has been so helpful to me this season.
+1! Darryl!

Yeah, almost midnight (EST), and still no Darryl!  Maybe the +k was premature (though I still owe him from a past post).  I did the PP for several years pre-Darryl, but have gotten so spoiled that I'm not sure I'd even do it anymore if he (or a successor) didn't do the updates!  I recall so many weeks that I realized too late that I had overlooked key results that would have altered my ballot.  Now (since he includes everyone that received ANY votes in the d3hoops.com poll) it is practically "one-stop shopping" - only occasionally do I check on a team that wasn't listed.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 28, 2012, 03:21:09 AM
I too kept waiting for Darryl, but with my travel plans tomorrow I couldn't wait any longer or you wouldn't be getting a poll from me. And I didn't want to spoil my perfect attendance record. So in the wee hours I've sent mine in. I should have been working on my selections for the Fantasy draft that I need to send you later on.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 28, 2012, 10:09:40 AM
I hope that Darryl has his post up by this evening.

I will have something late tonight.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 28, 2012, 05:09:11 PM
Another annoying thing that happens this time of the year is SID's not updating stats.  They can go all season religiously updating stats by Monday morning and then the morning after NCAA selections, boom nothing.  This happens every year, and I don't get it.  Just an observation.


In no way am I referring to Daryl as annoying :)

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 29, 2012, 12:35:42 AM
Mine is coming.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 29, 2012, 03:09:11 PM
Just a reminder that it is NOT too late to get a ballot in.  I'll probably put it up around 8 or 9 this evening, unless someone needs an extension.

I'd sure like to have a poll with more than SEVEN voters (the total so far)!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: augie_superfan on February 29, 2012, 03:35:10 PM
I should have one in by 7 EST
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 29, 2012, 07:28:46 PM
Just sent mine.  Went with all NCAA tournament teams just to keep things simple for me this week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 29, 2012, 08:42:49 PM
Aah!  Three more ballots in the last two hours!  Any more on the way?

If I don't hear from anyone, I'll start typing in another hour or so.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 29, 2012, 08:54:21 PM
Quote from: sac on February 29, 2012, 07:28:46 PM
Just sent mine.  Went with all NCAA tournament teams just to keep things simple for me this week.
With 19 Pool C teams, even with some of dubious distinction, I think that it is hard to go wrong with that strategy.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 29, 2012, 09:00:51 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 29, 2012, 08:54:21 PM
Quote from: sac on February 29, 2012, 07:28:46 PM
Just sent mine.  Went with all NCAA tournament teams just to keep things simple for me this week.
With 19 Pool C teams, even with some of dubious distinction, I think that it is hard to go wrong with that strategy.

WPI and Lake Forest were the only 2 teams I'd have considered that didn't get in, I'll certainly throw them back in the blender in 3 weeks.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 29, 2012, 09:07:03 PM
Quote from: sac on February 29, 2012, 09:00:51 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 29, 2012, 08:54:21 PM
Quote from: sac on February 29, 2012, 07:28:46 PM
Just sent mine.  Went with all NCAA tournament teams just to keep things simple for me this week.
With 19 Pool C teams, even with some of dubious distinction, I think that it is hard to go wrong with that strategy.

WPI and Lake Forest were the only 2 teams I'd have considered that didn't get in, I'll certainly throw them back in the blender in 3 weeks.

So far there have been a smattering of votes for non-tourney teams, but I'm pretty sure none will end IN this week's top 25.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 01, 2012, 12:16:23 AM
This is later than intended, but scoring tickets to the DeVos for Friday was higher priority!  I THINK I have succeeded; should know tomorrow morning.

Posters' Poll thru 2-26-12:

1.  Hope      242 (1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,4,4)
2.  Amherst  236 (1,1,1,2,2,2,2,3,4,6)
t3. Midd       220 (2,2,3,3,4,4,4,5,6,7)
t3. MIT        220 (1,2,2,3,3,3,3,4,8,9)
5.  Whitworth 198 (3,4,5,6,6,6,7,7,9,9)
6.  Va Wes     193 (4,5,5,5,5,5,7,9,9,13)
7.  UWW        191 (3,5,5,6,7,7,9,10,11,14)
t8. UMHB       156 (6,6,7,8,8,9,10,11,18,21)
t8. Cabrini      156 (3,6,7,8,10,10,10,12,12,-)
10. CMS         137 (5,8,8,8,8,9,9,12,20,-)
11. F & M       118 (8,9,11,12,12,12,13,13,-,-)
12. Woo         114 (11,13,13,13,13,13,14,14,16,-)
13. Willy Pat    108 (10,11,11,12,13,15,16,17,21,-)
14. WashU        90 (7,10,12,16,18,19,20,20,22,-)
15. UWRF         88 (8,10,15,16,17,19,19,20,23,25)
16. Oswego      87 (10,12,14,14,15,17,17,22,-,-)
t17 AlbertusM   73 (13,14,14,17,18,19,19,22,25,-)
t17 NCC           73 (14,15,15,18,18,18,19,20,24,-)
t19 BSC           68 (11,12,14,15,18,21,23,-,-,-)
t19 Wheaton     68 (7,16,18,18,20,21,21,22,23,-)
21. E. Conn       60 (10,16,16,17,20,21,24,25,25,-)
22. Transy         50 (15,16,17,18,20,21,25,-,-,-)
23. Witt            49 (14,16,17,19,19,22,-,-,-,-)
24. UWSP          42 (6,11,20,25,-,-,-,-,-,-)
25. RIC              41 (4,11,24,24,-,-,-,-,-,-)

26. Staten Isl     25 (15,17,22,25)
27. Hartwick       21 (16,19,23,25)
28. IWU             16 (17,21,24)
29. WPI             15 (11)
t30 OWU            12 (21,22,23)
t30 St.Thomas    12 (22,23,23,24)
t30 W. Conn        12 (19,23,24)
t33 Lake Forest   11 (15)
t33 Messiah        11 (15)
35. NYU              9 (22,23,24)
36. Keene           6 (20)
t37 CNU             5 (23,24)
t37 Medaille        5 (21)
39. Wesleyan      4 (22)
40. Randy Mac    2 (24)
t41 Augie           1
t41 McMurry       1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on March 01, 2012, 04:16:06 AM
Some strange placements in this week's poll. ???
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pjunito on March 01, 2012, 01:11:03 PM
Who didn't vote for Albertus?   ???

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on March 01, 2012, 03:47:31 PM
Well, I can see Albertus. But someone is disrespecting The-BeltTM by not voting for CMS.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on March 01, 2012, 04:27:58 PM
Quote from: pjunito on March 01, 2012, 01:11:03 PM
Who didn't vote for Albertus?   ???

If they didn't it was probably because of strength of schedule.   They were #25 for me.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 01, 2012, 04:55:14 PM
Quote from: smedindy on March 01, 2012, 03:47:31 PM
Well, I can see Albertus. But someone is disrespecting The-BeltTM by not voting for CMS.

But isn't voting for CMS disrespecting The-BeltTM by bothering it with such frivolities as Top 25 polls?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on March 01, 2012, 04:58:44 PM
Quote from: magicman on March 01, 2012, 04:16:06 AM
Some strange placements in this week's poll. ???

Such as?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: HopeConvert on March 01, 2012, 06:32:24 PM
You know, Hopester is just a few posts away from karma granting (and smiting) status. I'm surprised he hasn't been more aggressive this week with his posts. But I respect the self-restraint.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on March 01, 2012, 07:43:13 PM
Quote from: sac on March 01, 2012, 04:58:44 PM
Quote from: magicman on March 01, 2012, 04:16:06 AM
Some strange placements in this week's poll. ???

Such as?

RIC at #4. They didn't win their own conference tournament or regular season crown. I would think the voter that had them at #4 would have placed Eastern Connecticut in a higher slot, yet nobody has East Conn higher than #10.

UWSP at #6. 3rd in their conference regular season. Lost in the tournament semis. Lost to River Falls 3 times yet the voter who has them at number 6 places River Falls somewhere below Stevens Point in his rankings.

WPI at #11. Don't think a team with an 18-7 record deserves to be ranked that high. Hard to find a team (if ever) with that record, ranked that high.

I definitely need to be convinced of why those placements are where they are.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 01, 2012, 07:54:04 PM
Quote from: sac on March 01, 2012, 04:58:44 PM
Quote from: magicman on March 01, 2012, 04:16:06 AM
Some strange placements in this week's poll. ???

Such as?

Perhaps he had specific teams in mind (he can answer that), but I suspect he was just commenting on the even higher number of 'outliers' (both high and low) this week.  We have a more eclectic (and opinionated) group of voters this year than previous years, so have had tremendous diversity in voting compared with before.  But this week may have been even more extreme than earlier this season (I haven't looked in detail, but it felt that way).

Some of the individual teams that jumped out at me:

CMS: 7 votes in the top 9, then 12, 20 and out.
Cabrini: 9 votes in the top 12, and out.
RIC: a 4, 11, two 24s, and 6 outs.
WPI: an orphan at 11.

Not saying any votes were 'right' or 'wrong', but they sure did vary! 8-)

(And just before I hit 'post', magicman DOES chime in, citing 2 of the same 4 examples I used. ;))
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on March 01, 2012, 08:58:56 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 01, 2012, 07:54:04 PM

Cabrini: 9 votes in the top 12, and out.


This was me again, pretty sure its been me all along.  Its the schedule that keep them out of my Top 25. 


RIC #4  I don't have them #4 but I was surprised how well they ranked for me.  They've played a really good schedule.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2012, 09:15:49 PM
Quote from: sac on March 01, 2012, 04:58:44 PM
Quote from: magicman on March 01, 2012, 04:16:06 AM
Some strange placements in this week's poll. ???

Such as?
Okay, I will 'fess up.  I am the guy who voted McMurry #25.

Yeah, we are only 20-8, but we have won 5 in row, including wins over Regionally Ranked HSU and UMHB in the conference tourney.

Sure, we have only a 24.4% chance of beating the #2 team (https://sites.google.com/site/d3basketballindex/top-75) Whitworth, but what would you expect from #39? (BTW, McMurry's 100-75 win in the first round over ETBU  in the ASC tourney was not submitted to D3hoops.com).  (How much that win impact our numbers in the Top 75, etc? Thanks.)

I guess that the strangest placement that I have had this season, but I just had to do it.

Go Indians, er, McMurry, uh, War Hawks!   :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 01, 2012, 09:19:38 PM

I considered McMurry.  I still had Hardin-Simmons above them, though and I couldn't quite get them in.  Maybe the final poll when some other losers have dropped out?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: augie_superfan on March 01, 2012, 09:29:13 PM
Ralph,

Thanks for the info on the McMurry/ETBU game.  Adding that game would roughly raise McMurry about 0.6 points, putting them at #34.  It would also raise their chance of winning to 27.2%.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on March 01, 2012, 09:36:22 PM
Quote from: sac on March 01, 2012, 08:58:56 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 01, 2012, 07:54:04 PM

Cabrini: 9 votes in the top 12, and out.


This was me again, pretty sure its been me all along.  Its the schedule that keep them out of my Top 25. 


RIC #4  I don't have them #4 but I was surprised how well they ranked for me.  They've played a really good schedule.

But just don't double penalize teams for bad schedules. Some rating systems do.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2012, 10:32:16 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 01, 2012, 09:19:38 PM

I considered McMurry.  I still had Hardin-Simmons above them, though and I couldn't quite get them in.  Maybe the final poll when some other losers have dropped out?
HSU is good, and Matt Allison is the finest offensive player that we have had in the conference since Howard Payne's two time All-American Benny West (http://www.d3hoops.com/awards/all-americans/men/2004).  HSU beat us twice. We just beat them in OT in the conference semi-finals, when it counted.

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on March 01, 2012, 10:57:52 PM
Quote from: smedindy on March 01, 2012, 09:36:22 PM
Quote from: sac on March 01, 2012, 08:58:56 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 01, 2012, 07:54:04 PM

Cabrini: 9 votes in the top 12, and out.


This was me again, pretty sure its been me all along.  Its the schedule that keep them out of my Top 25. 


RIC #4  I don't have them #4 but I was surprised how well they ranked for me.  They've played a really good schedule.

But just don't double penalize teams for bad schedules. Some rating systems do.

This one doesn't, we've been over that. :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on March 01, 2012, 11:16:01 PM
Making sure you're on your game... ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 11, 2012, 11:58:18 AM
Since we're nearing the final poll... will the tournament winner automatically be #1?

Personally I doubt I'll have IWU at the top if they win it all (they weren't even on my ballot entering the tourney). MIT and Cabrini would almost definitely be #1 (since they were #2 and 3 before the tourney on my ballot) and UWW would probably be up there close (I had them #11 entering).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 11, 2012, 01:05:04 PM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 11, 2012, 11:58:18 AM
Since we're nearing the final poll... will the tournament winner automatically be #1?

Personally I doubt I'll have IWU at the top if they win it all (they weren't even on my ballot entering the tourney). MIT and Cabrini would almost definitely be #1 (since they were #2 and 3 before the tourney on my ballot) and UWW would probably be up there close (I had them #11 entering).

I don't require voters to place the champion at #1, though I believe they have always ended up there, and at least usually unanimously.

(If my Titans win it all, I reserve the right to disallow any ballot which does not have them #1! ;D)

(I wonder if Cabrini has made it on to sac's ballot yet? ;))
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on March 11, 2012, 01:30:47 PM
The added strength to their schedule of playing E. Conn St and Middlebury will obviously help them.  By my estimates those two games will move their SOS on massey approximately 50+ places.  Using my handy formulatm that would move them inside the top 20.  How much I don't know because I won't update everything until next week, probably. 

They'll no doubt get another boost to the SOS this weekend by playing IWU......and of course again by playing UWW or MIT if they should.



On the flipside, I think I've been all over MIT this year, and I've had to dumb down my ratings for the CCIW teams all year because they wouldn't make sense if I rated them in the poll where they rate on my chart.  But there they are.....winning.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hugenerd on March 11, 2012, 02:30:56 PM
Quote from: sac on March 11, 2012, 01:30:47 PM
The added strength to their schedule of playing E. Conn St and Middlebury will obviously help them.

They didn't play Midd, Scranton beat Midd in the round earlier.  Cabrini beat East Conn and Scranton this weekend.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on March 11, 2012, 03:41:46 PM
Quote from: Hugenerd on March 11, 2012, 02:30:56 PM
Quote from: sac on March 11, 2012, 01:30:47 PM
The added strength to their schedule of playing E. Conn St and Middlebury will obviously help them.

They didn't play Midd, Scranton beat Midd in the round earlier.  Cabrini beat East Conn and Scranton this weekend.

of course, meant Scranton....it still helps them just less than Middlebury would have.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hugenerd on March 11, 2012, 03:54:37 PM
Quote from: sac on March 11, 2012, 03:41:46 PM
Quote from: Hugenerd on March 11, 2012, 02:30:56 PM
Quote from: sac on March 11, 2012, 01:30:47 PM
The added strength to their schedule of playing E. Conn St and Middlebury will obviously help them.

They didn't play Midd, Scranton beat Midd in the round earlier.  Cabrini beat East Conn and Scranton this weekend.

of course, meant Scranton....it still helps them just less than Middlebury would have.

I figured that much, that's why I pointed it out.

Just curious, when you say 'I've been all over MIT' this year', does that mean you had them highly ranked all year, or am I misinterpreting that comment?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on March 11, 2012, 03:59:25 PM
MIT has come up #1 on my worksheet every week but 1.  I had voted them #1 every week but one, the one week I didn't they were #2.  I just went with it.


The one poll Mr. Y has published with their highest vote being #3 I didn't participate in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 11, 2012, 04:01:55 PM
Quote from: Hugenerd on March 11, 2012, 03:54:37 PM
Quote from: sac on March 11, 2012, 03:41:46 PM
Quote from: Hugenerd on March 11, 2012, 02:30:56 PM
Quote from: sac on March 11, 2012, 01:30:47 PM
The added strength to their schedule of playing E. Conn St and Middlebury will obviously help them.

They didn't play Midd, Scranton beat Midd in the round earlier.  Cabrini beat East Conn and Scranton this weekend.

of course, meant Scranton....it still helps them just less than Middlebury would have.

I figured that much, that's why I pointed it out.

Just curious, when you say 'I've been all over MIT' this year', does that mean you had them highly ranked all year, or am I misinterpreting that comment?

Generally I never reveal voters' ballots until after they do, but since he already did, just to clarify: aside from one week where he had UWW #1 and MIT #2, he has placed MIT #1 all season (even when most of us were voting his Hope team #1 ;)).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Hugenerd on March 11, 2012, 04:05:39 PM
Thanks for the clarification.  I participated a few times this year also, and I also had them #1 on those occasions (so I'm guessing the weeks they had two #1 votes, it was you and I). I wonder who the only person to vote them #1 in the d3hoops.com poll is?  He has got to feel pretty good about himself, as they are the highest seed remaining.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on March 11, 2012, 04:09:46 PM
While we're at it, what I meant by dumbing down the CCIW ratings......all year Augustana pops into the top 5 on my worksheet, once they lost Scarlatta it was pretty obvious they weren't that same strong team, and I never voted for them in the poll(I think).  But surprisingly, they just didn't fall down the worksheet much and stayed right near the top even in the final week they would have probably been top 10.....but I didn't calculate them.

IWU was frequently in my top 15 and only a couple weeks out of the top 25, though I didn't vote them that way.  Wheaton was frequently in my top 10, though I didn't vote them that way either.  There were times I just felt I had to move the CCIW teams down or out because of their overall records vs others in the polls.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 11, 2012, 05:06:05 PM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 11, 2012, 11:58:18 AM
Since we're nearing the final poll... will the tournament winner automatically be #1?

Personally I doubt I'll have IWU at the top if they win it all (they weren't even on my ballot entering the tourney). MIT and Cabrini would almost definitely be #1 (since they were #2 and 3 before the tourney on my ballot) and UWW would probably be up there close (I had them #11 entering).

I go back and redo the rankings from the beginning, meaning I don't necessarily take the tournament into consideration beyond the strength of opponent and the location/pressure.  So winning the tournament doesn't automatically mean you're #1 in my book, but the opponents and wins provided by a tournament victory sure help to improve the resume.

This year, I'm almost positive MIT, WW, and IWU would be #1 if they won.  Cabrini is a tough sell.  I've seen them in person and they're definitely top 15 material, they just haven't had to beat many top teams.  I'm not sure those two games in Salem would give them enough for me to believe they're #1.  I'm not sure Cabrini is better than any of the four teams I saw in Lancaster this weekend.  They're more disciplined than CSI, but I think they're very similar teams.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on March 11, 2012, 09:06:12 PM
Hey, if you win it, you're the champ and #1. Period. Paragraph!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 17, 2012, 09:02:04 PM

Mine's in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 17, 2012, 10:12:27 PM
Mine is in.

Thanks Mr Ypsi for running the Poll.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 18, 2012, 04:24:56 PM
Four ballots in already, and tabulated.  No specific deadline this week - I'll post when it appears that I've gotten all the ballots I'm going to get!  So if you wish to participate but cannot do a ballot before, say, Tuesday afternoon, be sure to let me know and I'll hold off.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 20, 2012, 03:29:03 PM
Seven ballots are in.  I'd really prefer at least ten, but the final ballot is always our lowest turnout.  Any more ballots coming if I hold off?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: NCF on March 20, 2012, 03:39:35 PM
Quote from: smedindy on March 11, 2012, 09:06:12 PM
Hey, if you win it, you're the champ and #1. Period. Paragraph!
Amen!!!!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on March 20, 2012, 05:18:26 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 20, 2012, 03:29:03 PM
Seven ballots are in.  I'd really prefer at least ten, but the final ballot is always our lowest turnout.  Any more ballots coming if I hold off?

I'm going to be sending one in in about an hour.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on March 20, 2012, 06:52:09 PM
My poll is in. Thanks for doing this again this year Mr. Y. Plus k
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 20, 2012, 07:27:17 PM
And magicman makes eight - any more?  In 2010, the final poll had 9 voters; last year we had 10.

I'll post before the night is out unless I hear from anyone requesting time.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 20, 2012, 10:22:24 PM
No requests, so here goes:

2012 Final Posters' Poll:

1. UWW    200 (unanimous)
2. MIT      184 (2,2,3,3,3,3,4,4)
3. Cabrini   181 (2,2,2,2,2,2,6,9)
4. Hope     163 (4,4,4,5,5,5,9,9)
5. IWU      161 (3,3,4,4,5,8,10,10)
6. Va Wes  159 (3,5,6,6,6,7,7,9)
7. Whitworth 146 (4,5,7,7,9,10,10,10)
8. F & M      145 (5,6,6,6,7,7,10,16)
9. Amherst   142 (5,7,7,8,8,8,9,14)
10 Midd        134 (3,8,8,9,9,10,13,14)
11 Wooster   113 (6,10,11,11,11,13,15,18)
12 Wittenberg 96 (11,11,12,12,14,15,18,19)
13 Wheaton    92 (8,8,11,13,18,19,19,20)
14 NCC          86 (12,13,13,13,15,16,20,20)
15 E. Conn     81 (12,12,14,14,15,19,20,21)
16 UMHB        77 (13,13,15,15,15,17,17,-)
17 CMS          64 (11,14,14,16,18,19,-,-)
18 Scranton    56 (12,12,16,17,18,25,-,-)
19 Staten Isl.  50 (16,18,19,20,21,21,21,22)
20 Oswego      47 (14,15,16,18,22,24,-,-)
21 Albertus M   39 12,17,19,22,23,24,-,-)
22 WashU        30 (17,18,21,22,23,25,-,-)
23 Hobart        28 (11,19,22,24,-,-,-,-)
24 St Thomas   24 (17,20,21,23,25,-,-,-)
25 UWRF         17 (16, 23,23,25,-,-,-,-)

26 Willy Pat      14 (17,24,24,25)
t27 UWSP         10 (22,22,24)
t27 NYU           10 (17,25)
t27 Trinity TX    10 (16)
t30 RIC             6 (20)
t30 Transy         6 (20)
t32 Birm-S         5 (23,24)
t32 St. Mary's    5 (21)
t32 WPI            5 (21)
35 Lake Forest   4 (22)
t36 W. Conn       3 (24,25)
t36 Becker         3 (23)
t36 Capital        3 (23)
39 Hartwick       1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: NCF on March 20, 2012, 10:30:36 PM
How do you get into the poll?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 20, 2012, 10:41:25 PM
Quote from: newcardfan on March 20, 2012, 10:30:36 PM
How do you get into the poll?

I wish you had asked this about 10 weeks ago!

The standards are mentioned at the beginning of every season, but, bottom line, I have no standards! :P  I seek as much diversity as I can get, and reserve the right to reject ballots that are clearly too 'homerish' (but have never so far rejected a ballot).  I seek voters who honestly follow ALL of d3, not just their team/conference/region.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 20, 2012, 10:44:08 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 20, 2012, 10:41:25 PMbottom line, I have no standards! :P

Chuck, I do believe that you have finally found the perfect signature line for your profile. ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 20, 2012, 10:46:03 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 20, 2012, 10:44:08 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 20, 2012, 10:41:25 PMbottom line, I have no standards! :P

Chuck, I do believe that you have finally found the perfect signature line for your profile. ;)

I blush! ;D 8-)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 20, 2012, 10:49:56 PM
It's even got a double meaning, since the sig is the literal "bottom line" on every post.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 20, 2012, 11:30:58 PM
My final ballot (with notes):

1.  UWW - duh!  (Actually, I am not of the school that champions automatically are also #1 in the final poll (I would make exceptions for Villanova and NCSt in d1 bball, and after IWU won the 2010 WS, despite my green blood, posted something to the effect of: I seriously doubt they are overall the best team in d3, but they were the best for 5 days in May and June; that is good enough for me, and we don't plan to return the trophy!  I have so far never felt a d3 champion was unworthy of also receiving the #1 vote, though I might have made an exception in 1996 on ethical rather than athletic grounds - all true d3 fans believe the title game that year should have been Hope vs. IWU, rather than the Prop 48 transfers for Rowan!)
2.  Cabrini - I had doubts (due to their schedule) all year, but saw them play twice - they're legit.
3.  MIT
4.  IWU - the general consensus of those in Salem to see both teams live seems to be that IWU would beat MIT, but I'm giving deference to their incredible overall record (and how often do MIT or Caltech get accolades for athletics?!)
5.  Hope - #1 going in, and it took IWU 2 OTs to dispatch them (definitely the best game, and atmosphere, I have EVER seen live in d3!)
6.  Va Wes - seemingly no argument here - I'm in the middle of the voting!
7.  F & M - like Cabrini, I had doubts; they dispelled them
8.  Amherst - again, I'm in the middle
9.  Whitworth - see above; casualties of the west coast island: hard to assess
10. Wooster
11. Wheaton
12. Wittenberg
13. NCC - 2-0 over IWU, but lost to Witt; IWU beat 'em by 21
14. Midd - probably deserves higher, but unsure who to displace
15. UMHB - lost in their first game, but what a season overall
16. Scranton
17. Albertus Magnus
18. CMS
19. E. Conn.
20. St. Thomas
21. Staten Island
22. UWSP - a nod to their overall season (they DID beat the national champions twice!); I saw them first-hand in Holland against IWU and, quite frankly, without Ty Tillema they were NOT a top 25 team, but I thought they deserved some credit
23. WashU
24. W. Conn.
25. UWRF
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 20, 2012, 11:47:25 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 20, 2012, 11:30:58 PMI have so far never felt a d3 champion was unworthy of also receiving the #1 vote, though I might have made an exception in 1996 on ethical rather than athletic grounds - all true d3 fans believe the title game that year should have been Hope vs. IWU, rather than the Prop 48 transfers for Rowan!)

Not true, Chuck. I don't consider what John Giannini did to be an ethical violation. He scrupulously obeyed the rules when he brought those Prop 48 players into the Rowan program. How can he be blamed for taking advantage of a perfectly-legal loophole that he didn't create?

The fault was with the NCAA for leaving open that loophole in the first place. not with Giannini and Rowan for using it. Frankly, I've always been surprised that more schools didn't take advantage of it. If they had, Rowan wouldn't have appeared to be such a glaring outlier.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 21, 2012, 12:05:02 AM
I'm of the school of thought that the tournament determines the champion... but the poll is for ranking the best teams. And those two things are not identical... I almost had Cabrini #1 (two losses all year, one on the road in OT by 2 and the championship by 3) but upon stringent examination before submitting my ballot I ended up putting UWW at the top.

1 WI-Whitewater (Not simply because they won the title but had a solid season as well)
2 Cabrini (2 losses by a total of 5 points... a very close 2nd)
3 MIT (would have been #1 had they won the tourney)
4 Hope (my #1 all season long)
5 Whitworth

6 Franklin & Marshall
7 Virginia Wesleyan
8 Middlebury
9 Amherst
10 Illinois Wesleyan (They lost a quarter of their games this year but a tough schedule combined with weak showings by the following four teams manage to squeak them into the top 10... 5 other teams lost at least 7 games on my ballot but the best was 18th)

11 Claremont-M-S
12 Albertus Magnus
13 Mary Hardin-Baylor
14 Oswego St
15 Wooster

16 Staten Island
17 William Paterson
18 Wheaton (IL)
19 Wittenberg (second of four teams to enter my poll)
20 North Central (IL)

21 E Connecticut (third of four to enter my poll)
22 Lake Forest (didn't get in the tourney and dropped 7 spots on my ballot)
23 St Thomas (MN)
24 Birmingham Southern
25 Scranton (fourth team to enter my poll)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 21, 2012, 01:05:13 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 20, 2012, 11:47:25 PM
Frankly, I've always been surprised that more schools didn't take advantage of it. If they had, Rowan wouldn't have appeared to be such a glaring outlier.

Maybe they did and we just didn't know about it. No national coverage in 1996 to spread the news.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 21, 2012, 01:32:36 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 20, 2012, 11:47:25 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 20, 2012, 11:30:58 PMI have so far never felt a d3 champion was unworthy of also receiving the #1 vote, though I might have made an exception in 1996 on ethical rather than athletic grounds - all true d3 fans believe the title game that year should have been Hope vs. IWU, rather than the Prop 48 transfers for Rowan!)

Not true, Chuck. I don't consider what John Giannini did to be an ethical violation. He scrupulously obeyed the rules when he brought those Prop 48 players into the Rowan program. How can he be blamed for taking advantage of a perfectly-legal loophole that he didn't create?

The fault was with the NCAA for leaving open that loophole in the first place. not with Giannini and Rowan for using it. Frankly, I've always been surprised that more schools didn't take advantage of it. If they had, Rowan wouldn't have appeared to be such a glaring outlier.

In my mind there is a clear distinction between what is legal and what is ethical (oftentimes the greatest disgrace is what IS legal).  Rowan did nothing against the rules.  To me, at least, what they did was definitely against what d3 is all about (which was seemingly confirmed by the swift passage of the 'Rowan Rule').
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: NCF on March 21, 2012, 07:58:20 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 20, 2012, 10:44:08 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 20, 2012, 10:41:25 PMbottom line, I have no standards! :P

Chuck, I do believe that you have finally found the perfect signature line for your profile. ;)

You beat me to the punch, however, I thought about using that one myself ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: NCF on March 21, 2012, 08:01:05 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 20, 2012, 10:41:25 PM
Quote from: newcardfan on March 20, 2012, 10:30:36 PM
How do you get into the poll?

I wish you had asked this about 10 weeks ago!

The standards are mentioned at the beginning of every season, but, bottom line, I have no standards! :P  I seek as much diversity as I can get, and reserve the right to reject ballots that are clearly too 'homerish' (but have never so far rejected a ballot).  I seek voters who honestly follow ALL of d3, not just their team/conference/region.

Is there one of these for football? I'd like to get into that one.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 21, 2012, 08:13:41 AM
Quote from: newcardfan on March 21, 2012, 08:01:05 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 20, 2012, 10:41:25 PM
Quote from: newcardfan on March 20, 2012, 10:30:36 PM
How do you get into the poll?

I wish you had asked this about 10 weeks ago!

The standards are mentioned at the beginning of every season, but, bottom line, I have no standards! :P  I seek as much diversity as I can get, and reserve the right to reject ballots that are clearly too 'homerish' (but have never so far rejected a ballot).  I seek voters who honestly follow ALL of d3, not just their team/conference/region.

Is there one of these for football? I'd like to get into that one.
The "fan polls" in football are regional in nature, but they work.  There was a North Region fan poll in 2011.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 21, 2012, 08:14:30 AM
As for standards, I have always wondered about the "standard deviation" for Mr Ypsi.   :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Knightstalker on March 21, 2012, 08:47:29 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 21, 2012, 08:14:30 AM
As for standards, I have always wondered about the "standard deviation" for Mr Ypsi.   :)

I believe Mr. Ypsi to be an above standard deviate.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Knightstalker on March 21, 2012, 08:55:07 AM
The 96 Rowan team was a legitimate champion as they did play by the rules, just as the WI schools played by the rules when redshirting was allowed.  Fans of other programs may not have liked it but what these schools did was legal. The big difference maker for Rowan that year was the late Roscoe Harris (RIP) he was a monster, one of the best big men I have personally watched.  And one hell of a nice guy.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 21, 2012, 09:14:24 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 20, 2012, 11:47:25 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 20, 2012, 11:30:58 PMI have so far never felt a d3 champion was unworthy of also receiving the #1 vote, though I might have made an exception in 1996 on ethical rather than athletic grounds - all true d3 fans believe the title game that year should have been Hope vs. IWU, rather than the Prop 48 transfers for Rowan!)

Not true, Chuck. I don't consider what John Giannini did to be an ethical violation. He scrupulously obeyed the rules when he brought those Prop 48 players into the Rowan program. How can he be blamed for taking advantage of a perfectly-legal loophole that he didn't create?

The fault was with the NCAA for leaving open that loophole in the first place. not with Giannini and Rowan for using it. Frankly, I've always been surprised that more schools didn't take advantage of it. If they had, Rowan wouldn't have appeared to be such a glaring outlier.

Ok, I know all about what happened and that the rule was changed to prevent it from happening again, but can someone fill in the details for me?

Was it that with Prop 48 those guys sat out a year, so they had an extra year of eligibility and they used it in d3?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: NCF on March 21, 2012, 09:20:12 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 21, 2012, 08:13:41 AM
Quote from: newcardfan on March 21, 2012, 08:01:05 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 20, 2012, 10:41:25 PM
Quote from: newcardfan on March 20, 2012, 10:30:36 PM
How do you get into the poll?

I wish you had asked this about 10 weeks ago!

The standards are mentioned at the beginning of every season, but, bottom line, I have no standards! :P  I seek as much diversity as I can get, and reserve the right to reject ballots that are clearly too 'homerish' (but have never so far rejected a ballot).  I seek voters who honestly follow ALL of d3, not just their team/conference/region.

Is there one of these for football? I'd like to get into that one.
The "fan polls" in football are regional in nature, but they work.  There was a North Region fan poll in 2011.
That's the one for me-thanks.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Knightstalker on March 21, 2012, 09:22:22 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 21, 2012, 09:14:24 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 20, 2012, 11:47:25 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 20, 2012, 11:30:58 PMI have so far never felt a d3 champion was unworthy of also receiving the #1 vote, though I might have made an exception in 1996 on ethical rather than athletic grounds - all true d3 fans believe the title game that year should have been Hope vs. IWU, rather than the Prop 48 transfers for Rowan!)

Not true, Chuck. I don't consider what John Giannini did to be an ethical violation. He scrupulously obeyed the rules when he brought those Prop 48 players into the Rowan program. How can he be blamed for taking advantage of a perfectly-legal loophole that he didn't create?

The fault was with the NCAA for leaving open that loophole in the first place. not with Giannini and Rowan for using it. Frankly, I've always been surprised that more schools didn't take advantage of it. If they had, Rowan wouldn't have appeared to be such a glaring outlier.

Ok, I know all about what happened and that the rule was changed to prevent it from happening again, but can someone fill in the details for me?

Was it that with Prop 48 those guys sat out a year, so they had an extra year of eligibility and they used it in d3?

That is basically it, I believe under Prop 48 underachieving students got a year to get their grades up to par and then 3 years of eligibility at a D1 school.  They then could play another year at a lower division school or I believe in grad school.  Not to sure about the grad school though.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: NCF on March 21, 2012, 09:54:36 AM
Quote from: Knightstalker on March 21, 2012, 08:47:29 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 21, 2012, 08:14:30 AM
As for standards, I have always wondered about the "standard deviation" for Mr Ypsi.   :)

I believe Mr. Ypsi to be an above standard deviate.

And that's a good thing? ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 21, 2012, 09:55:39 AM

I'm at work, so I don't have my ballot on me, but it's a bit out of sorts, as befitting Captain Outlier.  I don't mind if Ypsi wants to post it for me.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on March 21, 2012, 10:10:07 AM
I thought I posted this earlier...there is a football posters poll run by one of the UW-W guys from his own personal website but he posts the results here.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: BoBo on March 21, 2012, 10:49:03 AM
Quote from: smedindy on March 21, 2012, 10:10:07 AM
I thought I posted this earlier...there is a football posters poll run by one of the UW-W guys from his own personal website but he posts the results here.

it's conducted by bleedpurple ... look for it in Sept!!  ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: NCF on March 21, 2012, 11:14:05 AM
Quote from: BoBo on March 21, 2012, 10:49:03 AM
Quote from: smedindy on March 21, 2012, 10:10:07 AM
I thought I posted this earlier...there is a football posters poll run by one of the UW-W guys from his own personal website but he posts the results here.

it's conducted by bleedpurple ... look for it in Sept!!  ;)

Thanks everyone! Looking forward to a great 2012 season.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 21, 2012, 05:44:25 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 21, 2012, 09:55:39 AM

I'm at work, so I don't have my ballot on me, but it's a bit out of sorts, as befitting Captain Outlier.  I don't mind if Ypsi wants to post it for me.

I'll just post his top 10 - if he wants to post the rest, that's up to him!

1. UWW
2. MIT
3. Va Wes
4. Whitworth
5. F & M
6. Cabrini
7. Amherst
8. IWU
9. Hope
10 Midd

I almost disqualified his ballot for putting my Titans at only 8th, but, after all, two voters put them TENTH!  You're a tough crowd! >:( ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: NCF on March 21, 2012, 05:55:53 PM
It's  just the green tinted glasses talkin'. LOL
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 21, 2012, 06:04:30 PM
Quote from: Knightstalker on March 21, 2012, 08:47:29 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 21, 2012, 08:14:30 AM
As for standards, I have always wondered about the "standard deviation" for Mr Ypsi.   :)

I believe Mr. Ypsi to be an above standard deviate.

I used to sometimes include a joke question on stat final exams:

Your instructor is best described as
a. mean
b. a standard deviate
c. at variance with reality
d. a t-and-A man [Sandler's A is a simplified formula for the t-test for matched samples]
e. obsessed with normal (and some abnormal) curves
f. a clear case of regression

I told students that I would accept any answer except 'b' - I may be a deviate, but am never 'standard'! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: NCF on March 21, 2012, 06:26:57 PM
After reading many of your posts, I would have to agree.:)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 22, 2012, 06:41:28 AM
1.   Whitewater - They were my top pick much of the year, only proven in the tournament.
2.   MIT - They beat a lot of teams I didn't think they should, once is luck, several times means there's something intangible there I didn't see initially.
3.   Virginia Wesleyan - Preseason #1; they have the talent.  They also beat some good teams.
4.   Whitworth - I actually thought they were better than VaWes, but it was close enough, I let the head to head decide.
5.   Franklin & Marshall - Solid team play; late injury to Milligan hurt overall performance.
6.   Cabrini - Vastly improved my opinion of them in the playoffs, but the eye test keeps them here.
7.   Amherst - Lots of talent, but court awareness and ability to adapt leaves something to be desired.
8.   Illinois Wesleyan - Obviously very good, but I couldn't reward all those losses.
9.   Hope - Never was quite a believer, but the 2OT game against IWU was huge.  I still think they're likely better than IWU, but we have no real way to tell.
10. Middlebury - Great defensive team, but some serious deficiencies.
11. Wittenberg - They just kept hanging in there all season.
12. North Central - Probably better than this, but just didn't prove it at the end of the year.
13. Mary Hardin-Baylor - Great team, upset in the first round, which doesn't help prove their schedule was actually good (which I believe, but can't prove).
14. Eastern Connecticut - I doubted all year; they kept coming through.
15. Oswego State - I think their likely better than ECSU, but playing in the East Region means they have to prove themselves in the tournament.
16. River Falls - Strong team from a strong conference and a stronger than you'd think schedule.
17. WashU - Probably tailed off near the end of the year, but there's a gap after them, so they had breathing room.
18. Wooster - Mediocre Woo squad with a couple of fortunate wins.
19. Wheaton - CCIW was actually better than they appeared.  Tournament win, helped.
20. Transylvania - Believe it or not, I had them in the top 12 much of the year, tournament performance brought them back down to Earth.
21. Staten Island - Impressed with them in person, lots of deficiencies, but not deep ones.
22. Stevens Point - This is purely a result of some pretty strong wins and a great schedule.
23. Albertus Magnus - Ray Askew.
24. Hobart - Mike Neer.
25. Western Connecticut - Daquan Brooks (whose supporting cast is slightly less impressive than that of Askew's).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: BoBo on March 22, 2012, 07:40:54 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 22, 2012, 06:41:28 AM
. . .
16. River Falls - Strong team from a strong conference; still beat WW twice.
. . .
22. Stevens Point - This is purely a result of strong early season performances.

CORRECTION:  River Falls beat UWW once, in the WIAC Tournament Championship game.  UWW beat RF twice in the regular season.

Stevens Point played and beat UWW twice in the regular season. 

;)

Source (http://www.uwwsports.com/schedule.aspx?path=mbball&)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 22, 2012, 09:15:29 AM
Quote from: BoBo on March 22, 2012, 07:40:54 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 22, 2012, 06:41:28 AM
. . .
16. River Falls - Strong team from a strong conference; still beat WW twice.
. . .
22. Stevens Point - This is purely a result of strong early season performances.

CORRECTION:  River Falls beat UWW once, in the WIAC Tournament Championship game.  UWW beat RF twice in the regular season.

Stevens Point played and beat UWW twice in the regular season. 


Noted and corrected.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 22, 2012, 05:04:32 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 21, 2012, 01:32:36 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 20, 2012, 11:47:25 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 20, 2012, 11:30:58 PMI have so far never felt a d3 champion was unworthy of also receiving the #1 vote, though I might have made an exception in 1996 on ethical rather than athletic grounds - all true d3 fans believe the title game that year should have been Hope vs. IWU, rather than the Prop 48 transfers for Rowan!)

Not true, Chuck. I don't consider what John Giannini did to be an ethical violation. He scrupulously obeyed the rules when he brought those Prop 48 players into the Rowan program. How can he be blamed for taking advantage of a perfectly-legal loophole that he didn't create?

The fault was with the NCAA for leaving open that loophole in the first place. not with Giannini and Rowan for using it. Frankly, I've always been surprised that more schools didn't take advantage of it. If they had, Rowan wouldn't have appeared to be such a glaring outlier.

In my mind there is a clear distinction between what is legal and what is ethical (oftentimes the greatest disgrace is what IS legal).  Rowan did nothing against the rules.  To me, at least, what they did was definitely against what d3 is all about (which was seemingly confirmed by the swift passage of the 'Rowan Rule').

I agree with you that there is a distinction between what is legal and what is ethical, and I should've made that more clear. So, thanks for saying that. But my point here is that what Giannini did was ethical. Unethical behavior requires a negative proof. What is that negative proof? After all, the D1 transfers would not have been able to play for the Profs if they had not been academically eligible at the time that they transferred to Rowan. That means that their prior Prop 48 status was water under the bridge at that point.

And since they were academically eligible, that means that the only negative proof remaining is their original Prop 48 status. And is it fair -- is it ethical -- to penalize students in good standing who are in their fifth year of college for what they did in high school? To me, that seems to go against the whole idea of earned merit. I'm not saying that any of those guys had a redemptive experience in college with regard to their diligence in terms of study habits, time management, willingness to seek extra help, mental focus, or anything else. Perhaps they did; perhaps they didn't. What I'm saying is that their transcripts as of the fall of 1995 belied the academic deficiencies for which they had been penalized in the first place four years earlier.

(Please note that I'm not making any statements here as to the competence or the soundness of judgment of Rowan's admissions department, or to the course selections of those Prop 48 players at their D1 schools, or to the academic rigor of those D1 schools and those particular courses. I'm simply taking the situation as it stood at face value ... since accepting such institutional particulars is truly what D3 is all about.)

Knightstalker's WIAC redshirting analogy is a good one. Redshirting also created a competitive imbalance, and it, too, was eventually altered by NCAA legislation. But I don't think that I would want to hang my hat on NCAA legislation in terms of what is ethical and what isn't, Chuck. After all, that brings you right back around to your point about the distinction between legality and ethicality.

I didn't have any complaints about the so-called "Rowan Rule" being put into effect, because I saw its purpose as being essentially one of deterrence. If high school athletes were aware that their options would be limited to three years of competition in any division of the NCAA if they failed to achieve the prescribed benchmarks for GPA, core courses passed, and for the SAT or ACT, it would theoretically help motivate them even further to succeed as students. Unfortunately, the fact that the legislation was a response to Rowan's winning the national championship (as is indicated by the nickname "Rowan Rule") made the legislation look remedial rather than progressive. (The other unfortunate thing about it is that the fact that the NCAA and the NAIA were more competitive than cooperative in those days made that deterrent a bit more toothless than it should've been.)

BTW, Chuck, you've gone from speaking on behalf of "all true D3 fans" in your original anti-Rowan assertion to speaking in terms of "to me, at least". A case of backpedaling, or are you saying that you're the only true D3 fan? ;) ;D

Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 21, 2012, 01:05:13 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 20, 2012, 11:47:25 PM
Frankly, I've always been surprised that more schools didn't take advantage of it. If they had, Rowan wouldn't have appeared to be such a glaring outlier.

Maybe they did and we just didn't know about it. No national coverage in 1996 to spread the news.

Good point, although it seems to me that we would've heard something about other teams using a former Prop 48 player or players, given how loudly people screamed about Rowan doing it.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Knightstalker on March 22, 2012, 05:24:57 PM
Maybe Rowan was the only school that was actually successful doing it?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: NCF on March 22, 2012, 11:00:23 PM
Quote from: Knightstalker on March 22, 2012, 05:24:57 PM
Maybe Rowan was the only school that was actually successful doing it?
Good point!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 29, 2012, 10:55:45 PM
I'm in! When?  Voting starts after Sunday January 6th?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 29, 2012, 11:52:32 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 29, 2012, 10:55:45 PM
I'm in! When?  Voting starts after Sunday January 6th?

I'll check the 'scoreboard' calendar to decide between the 6th and 13th, but definitely in that vicinity.

It would be great if we could consistently make it up to 12-14 this year! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 21, 2012, 01:18:33 AM
We'll have had more than 1 1/2 months of games by Sunday, January 6th - plenty of time to separate the 'sheep from the goats'.  (I've always wondered about that expression - which are the good guys: sheep or goats?  Would you want to be either?)  Of course, as always, which teams are which varies from week to week!

So, first Posters' Poll of the season begins with games thru Jan. 6.  Please submit ballots with a PM to me - by Tuesday evening if at all possible, though I am open to requests for extensions.  (I'd rather post a poll of 10-12 on Wednesday night, than a poll of 7-8 'on time' - but a poll of 13 on Tuesday would be fantabulous!)  Most weeks there a very few (if any) relevant games on Sunday, so I usually have the basic outlines of my ballot by Saturday night.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on December 21, 2012, 01:24:33 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 21, 2012, 01:18:33 AM
Plenty of time to separate the 'sheep from the goats'.  (I've always wondered about that expression - which are the good guys: sheep or goats?  Would you want to be either?)  Of course, as always, which teams are which varies from week to week!

Read Matthew 25:31-46
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 21, 2012, 08:27:18 AM

The 6th might be a week too early for me.  Busy weekend.  I'll try, but I might have to skip the first week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 06, 2013, 11:48:57 AM
Reminder to all interested posters - the first PP of the season is for games through today.  Please PM a ballot to me by Tuesday evening, if at all possible.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 07, 2013, 09:37:29 AM

I'll see if I can work on a list.  Busy week, though.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 07, 2013, 07:19:24 PM
I have ballots from smedindy and KnightSlappy, but have been stalled with just the three of us all day now.  I'd be much comforted if at least three more showed up before the end of the day! 8-)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 07, 2013, 07:34:21 PM

Working on it now.  We'll see how much research I can get done before the football game comes on.  If only they've put it on a channel I received I wouldn't have to tie up my computer watching it.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 07, 2013, 08:33:34 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 07, 2013, 07:34:21 PM

Working on it now.  We'll see how much research I can get done before the football game comes on.  If only they've put it on a channel I received I wouldn't have to tie up my computer watching it.

I thought the football season ended when Mount Union beat St. Thomas. 8-)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 07, 2013, 09:12:52 PM
Mine is in. 

Thanks to Darryl Nester.  He keeps us Posters' Pollsters up-to-date!  +1! :)

Roll Tide/War Eagle!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 07, 2013, 10:52:10 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 07, 2013, 08:33:34 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 07, 2013, 07:34:21 PM

Working on it now.  We'll see how much research I can get done before the football game comes on.  If only they've put it on a channel I received I wouldn't have to tie up my computer watching it.

I thought the football season ended when Mount Union beat St. Thomas.

So did Notre Dame.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 07, 2013, 10:52:45 PM
Hoops Fan, you CAN'T still be watching the 'game', can you?  Gotta see if Alabama can top the Bears' 1940 defeat of the Redskins in the title game (73-0)?

Nick Saban ain't George Halas (in either talent or relentlessness).  (I'll guess a final of 42-7.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 07, 2013, 11:45:13 PM

No, I stopped watching the game at 21-0.  It was over then.  I've been watching "Charlie Bartlett" on one of the extra channels they send over the broadcast waves.  Features a teenage Cat Dennings, a strangely out of place Robert Downey Jr, a random cameo by Drake (pre-Drake) and staring the guy who plays Chekov in the new Star Trek.  Fascinating stuff.

Anyway, I managed to finish my scouring of every conference in about 3.75 hours.  I've got 77 teams on the list, roughly ranked, but needing some hardcore editing.  That's not happening tonight - hopefully I'll have a good Top 25 by tomorrow afternoon.  Hopefully.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 08, 2013, 12:48:40 AM
I'm getting there... much tougher to figure out than the football poll. Can't we just have a national round robin with all 400 some teams playing each other once?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 08, 2013, 05:56:43 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 07, 2013, 07:19:24 PM
I have ballots from smedindy and KnightSlappy, but have been stalled with just the three of us all day now.  I'd be much comforted if at least three more showed up before the end of the day! 8-)

Well if FCGrizzliesGrad sent his in, then Ralph's and the one I just sent in makes three more and you should be "much comforted"  . ;) One of my goals is to make sure Mr. Ypsi stays in his comfort zone. I wouldn't want an uncomfortable Mr. Ypsi unleashed upon these boards. ::)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 08, 2013, 10:51:23 AM

All in all about five hours of work for the initial poll (I don't spend nearly the same amount of time on any other, save for the final), but it's in and finished.  I don't think it will be too controversial, but there may be some outliers involved in terms of order and placement.

As for the "real" poll.  I think I left out only two teams.

Just quickly on my process - I search through each conference, looking at every team with 4, 5, or 6 losses or less (the number depends on the conference) and compile a list of teams that I can't yet rule out.  I try to rank them roughly as I make the list, but it's difficult given the volume and the time frame.  Also, my perceptions change as I go through and realize some teams are not as good/bad as I thought they were.

Then I start at the top and begin comparing teams to each other, placing them in position until I get 30 teams ranked in order.

Finally, I check both the Massey ratings and the d3hoops.com Top 25 poll and consider teams that are included in the Top 25 of either, but failed to make my initial top 30.  Hopefully that gives every deserving team a shot to be considered.

We'll see how it goes.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 08, 2013, 03:04:50 PM
I just filled in all the MIAA teams from 1-8 then put in select team from the GL region to round it out (except for the PrAC, because never the PrAC). Easy enough.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 08, 2013, 04:14:17 PM
It took me about 20 minutes, really. No need for angst or sturm and drang about it. Is this team good enough? Yeah. What's their Massey? Oh.

My spreadsheet has about 75 teams on it. That's a good pool to start with.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 08, 2013, 05:28:44 PM
We now have 8 ballots in and tabulated - better than I feared, though less than I hoped.

I'd like to put out the poll by the end of the evening.  If anyone plans on a ballot, but cannot get it in by, say, 9pm, please let me know.  A number of multiyear pollsters have not yet been heard from (I'm thinking especially of Greg, sac, and Greek, but also others) - c'mon and join the party.  Right now #1 and #2 are separated by precisely ONE point!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 08, 2013, 08:55:13 PM
Last call for ballots.

Greek has brought us up to 9.  If I don't hear a request for more time, I'll begin typing in about a half hour or so.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 08, 2013, 09:53:29 PM

It'll probably be up as soon as I go to bed tonight.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 08, 2013, 10:10:33 PM
POSTERS' POLL, thru games of January 6, 2013:

1.  St. Thomas 221 (1,1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2)
2.  North Central 219 (1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2,3)
3.  Rochester 208 (2,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3)
4.  Whitworth 189 (4,4,4,4,4,5,6,6,8)
5.  UWSP 173 (4,5,6,7,7,8,8,8,8)
6.  Catholic 163 (5,5,6,6,8,9,9,10,12)
7.  UWW  155 (7,7,8,9,9,9,9,10,11)
8.  Augustana 151 (4,4,6,7,8,10,11,14,19)
9.  Ohio Wesleyan 148 (5,5,5,5,6,7,15,18,20)
10  Chris Newport 130 (8,9,10,11,11,11,13,14,17)
11  St. Mary's 129 (7,7,9,11,11,13,14,15,18)
12  WPI 122 (9,10,11,12,12,13,14,14,17)
13  Middlebury 119 (4,5,6,10,12,13,16,23,-)
14  Williams 112 (10,12,12,13,13,13,16,16,17)
15  Ramapo 98 (6,9,10,14,15,16,20,22,24)
16  Wash U 92 (7,11,12,15,15,16,18,23,25)
17  Wooster 86 (12,13,14,15,16,19,19,20,20)
18  Randolph 60 (14,14,16,17,19,21,22,25,-)
19  Wheaton 55 (15,15,16,18,21,22,22,24,-)
20  RHIT 46 (15,17,18,19,20,23,24,-,-)
21  Concordia TX 44 (16,17,18,19,22,23,24,25,-)
22  IWU 42 (17,18,21,21,22,22,23,24,24)
23  F & M 41 (13,17,19,20,22,24,-,-,-)
24  Stevens 32 (18,18,19,20,23,-,-,-,-)
25  UW-Stout 20(17,20,21,-,-,-,-,-,-)

26  Augsburg 15 (12,25)
t27  Transy  14 (21,21,22)
t27  A Magnus 14 (19,19)
29  Amherst 12 (21,21,25,25)
30  Guilford  5 (23,24)
t31 Adrian  3 (23)
t31 MIT   3 (23)
t31 UW-LaX 3 (24,25)
t34 Buena Vista  1
t34 Calvin    1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pjunito on January 08, 2013, 10:34:15 PM
Thanks for the work Mr. Ypsi...

I love reading the opinions of the other posters. I don't see enough of the teams to attempt a poll. So, it's fun to see how others (who watch more teams than I do) rank them.

Look forward to more great basketball this season.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 08, 2013, 10:38:26 PM
Great work. I forgot how fun it as to look at this.  It's been awhile since I participated in the poll.  Not sure how much I will be able to do it, but I'll do what I can. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 08, 2013, 11:59:41 PM
Looking at the spread of votes, and comparing our poll to d3hoops.com's poll, a few notes:

According to the 'official' poll, we greatly undervalued Midd (13th vs. 3rd, with our highest vote being 4th), Franklin and Marshall (23rd vs. 14th, with 8 voters 17th or below), Ramapo (15th vs. 7th, with 8 voters 9th or below), and Albertus Magnus (29th vs. 19th, with my vote at what the later official pool called the 19th best team turning out to be an orphan vote!).

On the other hand, we greatly overvalued (according to the official poll) Augie (8th vs. 17th), OWU (9th vs. 16th), UWSP (5th vs. 10th), and perhaps UWW (7th vs. 11th) and UW-Stout (25th vs. t43rd).  [Note the WIAC tendency!]

I also was struck by the wildly different views of, especially, Midd and OWU.

I also noted that IWU was by far the lowest ranked team to be named on all 9 ballots - have I intimidated you into thinking that will let your ballot go unchallenged??!! ;D  (For the record, I was one of the votes for #21 - I'm not THAT much of a homer! 8-))
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 09, 2013, 06:18:04 AM
Quickies.

As I said in my message to you, I used Massey's Power Ranking (power rating), SOS, Massey's Rating (rating overall strength) and some guy named David Wilson and his system.

http://talismanred.com/ratings/hoops/divisioniii.shtml

http://masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cb&yr=2013&sub=11620

I had four WIAC teams.  Point was 4th in all three ratings and 2nd in SOS.  Whitewater was in the top 12 of the 3 and 1st in SOS.  Stout and La Crosse were better than Middebury in two of three and WAY better in SOS.  Middlebury's SOS was 298.  Stout and La Crosse were 49 and 38.  Augustana was top 5 in 2 of 3. OWU was top 7 in 2 of 3. IWU was 22nd, 24th and 30th in the 3 ratings, though 10th in SOS.  I had them 21st in our poll.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 09, 2013, 06:22:33 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 08, 2013, 10:10:33 PM
POSTERS' POLL, thru games of January 6, 2013:

1.  St. Thomas 221 (1,1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2)
2.  North Central 219 (1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2,3)
3.  Rochester 208 (2,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3)
4.  Whitworth 189 (4,4,4,4,4,5,6,6,8)
5.  UWSP 173 (4,5,6,7,7,8,8,8,8)
6.  Catholic 163 (5,5,6,6,8,9,9,10,12)
7.  UWW  155 (7,7,8,9,9,9,9,10,11)
8.  Augustana 151 (4,4,6,7,8,10,11,14,19)
9.  Ohio Wesleyan 148 (5,5,5,5,6,7,15,18,20)
10  Chris Newport 130 (8,9,10,11,11,11,13,14,17)
11  St. Mary's 129 (7,7,9,11,11,13,14,15,18)
12  WPI 122 (9,10,11,12,12,13,14,14,17)
13  Middlebury 119 (4,5,6,10,12,13,16,23,-)
14  Williams 112 (10,12,12,13,13,13,16,16,17)
15  Ramapo 98 (6,9,10,14,15,16,20,22,24)
16  Wash U 92 (7,11,12,15,15,16,18,23,25)
17  Wooster 86 (12,13,14,15,16,19,19,20,20)
18  Randolph 60 (14,14,16,17,19,21,22,25,-)
19  Wheaton 55 (15,15,16,18,21,22,22,24,-)
20  RHIT 46 (15,17,18,19,20,23,24,-,-)
21  Concordia TX 44 (16,17,18,19,22,23,24,25,-)
22  IWU 42 (17,18,21,21,22,22,23,24,24)
23  F & M 41 (13,17,19,20,22,24,-,-,-)
24  Stevens 32 (18,18,19,20,23,-,-,-,-)
25  UW-Stout 20(17,20,21,-,-,-,-,-,-)

26  Augsburg 15 (12,25)
27  Transy  14 (21,21,22)
28  Amherst 12 (21,21,25,25)
29  A. Magnus 7 (19)
30  Guilford  5 (23,24)
t31 Adrian  3 (23)
t31 MIT   3 (23)
t31 UW-LaX 3 (24,25)
t34 Buena Vista  1
t34 Calvin    1

My selections are in bold.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 09, 2013, 09:47:42 AM
I'm quite pleased that our little cabal values OWU over Wooster.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 09, 2013, 09:49:24 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on January 09, 2013, 06:18:04 AM
Quickies.

As I said in my message to you, I used Massey's Power Ranking (power rating), SOS, Massey's Rating (rating overall strength) and some guy named David Wilson and his system.

http://talismanred.com/ratings/hoops/divisioniii.shtml

http://masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cb&yr=2013&sub=11620

I had four WIAC teams.  Point was 4th in all three ratings and 2nd in SOS.  Whitewater was in the top 12 of the 3 and 1st in SOS.  Stout and La Crosse were better than Middebury in two of three and WAY better in SOS.  Middlebury's SOS was 298.  Stout and La Crosse were 49 and 38.  Augustana was top 5 in 2 of 3. OWU was top 7 in 2 of 3. IWU was 22nd, 24th and 30th in the 3 ratings, though 10th in SOS.  I had them 21st in our poll.

I looked at Massey, Wolfe and Wilson's, and my big issue was that there was a big difference on who 'is' D-3 and who is not. Wilson only has 400 teams whilst the others two have the same number but use different teams to get to that number. Yeah, it's not really a big issue but I like to have SOME consistency there!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 09, 2013, 12:44:09 PM
Mr Ypsi, please double-check my ballot. I tried to give Albertus Magnus a #20.

Thanks for running the poll, again.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 09, 2013, 03:11:45 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 09, 2013, 12:44:09 PM
Mr Ypsi, please double-check my ballot. I tried to give Albertus Magnus a #20.

Thanks for running the poll, again.

OOPS!  (Actually, you gave them #19, just like me.)  I'll correct the poll, though it makes only a slight difference - AM goes from #29 to t27; Amherst drops from 28 to 29.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 09, 2013, 04:51:59 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 09, 2013, 03:11:45 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 09, 2013, 12:44:09 PM
Mr Ypsi, please double-check my ballot. I tried to give Albertus Magnus a #20.

Thanks for running the poll, again.

OOPS!  (Actually, you gave them #19, just like me.)  I'll correct the poll, though it makes only a slight difference - AM goes from #29 to t27; Amherst drops from 28 to 29.
And, they are no longer an "orphan"!  AMC has had too much success over the last few years. I think that they are becoming a quality program.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 09, 2013, 05:14:18 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 09, 2013, 04:51:59 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 09, 2013, 03:11:45 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 09, 2013, 12:44:09 PM
Mr Ypsi, please double-check my ballot. I tried to give Albertus Magnus a #20.

Thanks for running the poll, again.

OOPS!  (Actually, you gave them #19, just like me.)  I'll correct the poll, though it makes only a slight difference - AM goes from #29 to t27; Amherst drops from 28 to 29.
And, they are no longer an "orphan"!  AMC has had too much success over the last few years. I think that they are becoming a quality program.

Now if they could only play someone in the regular season!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 09, 2013, 05:34:31 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 09, 2013, 05:14:18 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 09, 2013, 04:51:59 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 09, 2013, 03:11:45 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 09, 2013, 12:44:09 PM
Mr Ypsi, please double-check my ballot. I tried to give Albertus Magnus a #20.

Thanks for running the poll, again.

OOPS!  (Actually, you gave them #19, just like me.)  I'll correct the poll, though it makes only a slight difference - AM goes from #29 to t27; Amherst drops from 28 to 29.
And, they are no longer an "orphan"!  AMC has had too much success over the last few years. I think that they are becoming a quality program.

Now if they could only play someone in the regular season!
Yes, a good point.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 09, 2013, 06:23:07 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 09, 2013, 05:34:31 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 09, 2013, 05:14:18 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 09, 2013, 04:51:59 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 09, 2013, 03:11:45 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 09, 2013, 12:44:09 PM
Mr Ypsi, please double-check my ballot. I tried to give Albertus Magnus a #20.

Thanks for running the poll, again.

OOPS!  (Actually, you gave them #19, just like me.)  I'll correct the poll, though it makes only a slight difference - AM goes from #29 to t27; Amherst drops from 28 to 29.
And, they are no longer an "orphan"!  AMC has had too much success over the last few years. I think that they are becoming a quality program.

Now if they could only play someone in the regular season!
Yes, a good point.

Well, they DID play Yale! :P  (Lost by 49, but who's counting!)  Their non-con also included W. Conn and Trinity, who are usually 'someone'.  But, yeah, being in the GNAC is not gonna give them a powerhouse schedule.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 09, 2013, 08:55:58 PM

They beat some really, truly terrible teams by very small amounts.  I am not a believer.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 09, 2013, 10:22:21 PM
Memo to KnightSlappy - I guess I can now 'forgive' Calvin for their loss to Carthage.  Carthage just took down #1 (real poll; #2 on ours) NCC by double-digits!  If Calvin wins on Saturday (they certainly should), they'll be on my ballot next week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 10, 2013, 10:53:22 AM
CTX was on my "watch list" from the ASC (I gave them a #25), but they did not beat rival UMHB in Belton last night.  They lost 98-95.  That series is always tough.  A win at UMHB would have really told me something!  CTX matches well against UMHB.

The best team in the ASC has not declared itself yet.  UMHB matches well against almost everyone.

UT-Tyler could not hold home court against UMHB and CTX last week when the travel partners made that trip.  UT-Dallas lost to the 3 best in the ASC-West.   We saw HSU on the national stage in Las Vegas last month.

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pjunito on January 10, 2013, 09:26:56 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 09, 2013, 08:55:58 PM

They beat some really, truly terrible teams by very small amounts.  I am not a believer.

I am the biggest Albertus supporter on these boards. I think the poll is fair, 27-31, very fair. They are not a regional power, they are a solid team. Their conference is weak and their out of conference schedule is average at best. They did beat West Conn, Trinity,and Wesleyan this year. I think they are building something nice there; I would love to see them play a tougher out of conference schedule; especially since GNAC has automatic bid. Let's see if that happens next year.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 11, 2013, 12:37:44 AM
I'm really torn on how to handle Cabrini.  Now that d3hoops.com Rookie of the Year Aaron Walton-Moss has regained eligibility, I have little doubt they are a top 25 team, but they DO have 4 losses from when he was ineligible, and play in such a low-level conference they will have no chance before the tourney to show what they've got.

Thoughts?

It is sort of reminiscent of when Kent Raymond went down with an injury a few years back, and the very highly ranked Wheaton team promptly lost 2 games (and a third in his first game back, when he was clearly less than 100%).  The difference is that, in the CCIW, Wheaton could prove themselves.  Once they started consistently winning again, I mostly ignored the losses and started voting them almost to where they would have been with two or three wins.  With a CSAC schedule, Cabrini has no opportunity to prove themselves.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 11, 2013, 08:09:55 AM
IMHO, if you are a Cabrini advocate, put them into the bottom of your poll and let them float up. They may be #18 by the end of February, if they "gel" as you expect.

#18 is suggesting that they make the Sweet 16 out of a weaker than average Mid-Atlantic region.  ("Weaker than average" is a discussion for another time.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 11, 2013, 08:44:29 AM

Rosemont isn't terrible - maybe a top 100 team.  If Cabrini wins by 20+, it would be a positive indication.

They did lose to Wesley with Walton-Moss.  Wesley seems better than I initially thought.  Granted Cabrini's chemistry couldn't have been quite right yet, but there will be room for growth.

With the style they play, I think comparing scores from this year to last year in terms of margin of victory can be helpful as well.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 11, 2013, 11:44:32 AM
Yeah, after I posted I noticed that Cabrini's loss to Wesley was with Walton-Moss back (he had 16 points).  I think I'll defer action for now.  If (as I expect) they get to 15 or 16 and 4, I'll probably slide them into the nether reaches of the ballot.

Very good teams from very bad conferences are always a riddle! :P
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 11, 2013, 12:13:57 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 11, 2013, 12:37:44 AM
I'm really torn on how to handle Cabrini.  Now that d3hoops.com Rookie of the Year Aaron Walton-Moss has regained eligibility, I have little doubt they are a top 25 team, but they DO have 4 losses from when he was ineligible, and play in such a low-level conference they will have no chance before the tourney to show what they've got.

Thoughts?

It is sort of reminiscent of when Kent Raymond went down with an injury a few years back, and the very highly ranked Wheaton team promptly lost 2 games (and a third in his first game back, when he was clearly less than 100%).  The difference is that, in the CCIW, Wheaton could prove themselves.  Once they started consistently winning again, I mostly ignored the losses and started voting them almost to where they would have been with two or three wins.  With a CSAC schedule, Cabrini has no opportunity to prove themselves.

I'm not sure Cabrini is the team for the "Kent Raymond" test because KR was with Wheaton, then not with them for a few games (and Wheaton was a shell of their former selves), then with them again.

Wheaton rose to the #1 ranking in the country and a 15-0 record when Raymond got hurt. They beat a bad Millikin team (up until this season, that last statement would have been redundant...), then lost at home to Carthage and Elmhurst and North Central in Naperville. Raymond was back for the NC game but didn't start and only played 20 minutes. The next game, they beat Augustana in Rock Island, the first of 11 straight victories.

Clearly, Wheaton was a much different team with Kent Raymond than without him.

I'm not sure that, for this season, Cabrini is the best team for the "Raymond test," as I mentioned above. I think my Pointers are, with the future of Tyler Tillema continuing to be in question.

Now, I think that Stevens Point is more talented behind Tillema than Wheaton was behind Raymond, and for that matter, I think that Raymond  was better than even a healthy Tillema. But both players are/were All-American-type players and integral to the team's ultimate success for the season.

I think, in the same way that Wheaton was a top 5 team with Raymond and a #15 (or possibly even lower) team without him, Stevens Point is too. I'm not sure that Point should be much lower than #15, and as they've shown (like on Wednesday night when they handled a good UW Stout team), SP is still a good team without Ty Tillema... but they're not as great as they are with him.

It's more than just the 18 points per game, of course. It's even more than the 4 assists per game... but in many respects, it's related to this. Tillema has a unique ability (at least among Pointers) to get to the rim and score. He's got a keen awareness of where his teammates are, too, and paired with his ability to break down a defense, it allows him to get the ball to players in places where they can score. It's more that just the direct assist... perhaps it's a pass from a different angle that knocks a defender off balance, so when he kicks to an open player, the defender is late and more susceptible to a ball fake, which allows Ty's teammate to get to the rim himself.

The recipients of this are likely going to be the post players, guys like Clayton Heuer and Joe Ritchay. I don't think that it's a coincidence that the #1 and #2 guys in Pointer history in field goal percentage are the post players who benefited from playing with great penetrators like Jerrel Harris, Dan Tillema, Tyler Tillema, and DeVon Jackson.

D Tillema and Harris are gone. Tyler is out for right now, and Jackson has recently been able to rejoin the team after taking last school year off (necessitating the need to sit out the first semester). In other words, Point is going to get even better as the year goes on.

I think they're probably ranked best (without Tillema) at about 15... but the second that Tyler is back, they should jump about 10 spots.



I think St. Thomas easily rise to the top spot in the next regular poll (they were already there in this one  ;) ). Middlebury hasn't shown very much lately... their last two victories are by a combined 4 points. And this was against two of the lesser teams in the NESCAC. (Caveat... I understand that Stevens Point recently beat WIAC bottom feeder Eau Claire by just 4 points themselves... but I'm not making (or breaking?) their case for being the #1 team in the land either!). Just one poll point separates St. Thomas from Middlebury, and I think that the separation should be much greater than that.

Perhaps Rochester could make a stab at it... but I don't see them coming through this upcoming weekend unscathed. Chicago will wear them down and Wash U will beat them. Wash U will need some redemption after losing two in a row... because Emory is going to knock off the Bears in the Friday night game (Heard it here first!).

Whitworth doesn't have a claim for the top spot, especially over St. Thomas, who's their one blemish. This was even on Whitworth's home floor, though it was in just the second game of the year.


One final thought.... Like I said, I like St. Thomas for the top spot this week. But, something happened in the UST/UWSP game that is still rubbing me the wrong way.  Let me explain.

First, take a look at the Box Score (http://athletics.uwsp.edu/custompages/mbball/2012-13/1221stsp.htm).

St Thomas led by as many as 6, twice in the first half, Point led by as many as 4, and led at half time 27-26. It SHOULD have been by at least 4... SP had a 4 point lead and the ball and turned it over with :02 left in the half and Zach Reideman for UST picked up the loose ball and tossed it 3/4 of the length of the court... and it spashed in. This turned the momentum of the game... UWSP had been on a 12-2 run, turning a 6 point deficit into a 4 point lead... but instead it was just a one point lead.

But though that rubbed me the wrong way a little bit, that's not even what I'm talking about.

UST, with the momentum, took the lead early in the second half and extended it to 11 with 11:00 left in the game. Point then chipped away and chipped away... until, with 1:44 left, Clayton Heuer scored and was fouled, hitting the freebie, and cutting the lead to 3, at 62-59. Stevens Point got a stop and a Heuer bucket with :57 cut the lead to 1, at 62-61.

Now the next play in the box score is what really sticks in my craw...

00:39  UWSP  FOUL by Heuer,Clayton (4)

In the 0:18 between when Clayton scored and Clayton (apparently) fouled Will DeBerg (an almost 90% free throw shooter), Stevens Point almost got a steal, but the ball went out of bounds.

BEFORE THE BALL WAS EVEN INBOUNDED a foul was called, because DeBerg effectively flopped. He "got caught up" in the defenders, 35 feet away from where the ball was being inbounded in near half court by the scorer's table and drew a foul call.

He proceeded to knock down two FT's, bringing the lead back to 3. Point missed on the other end when Tillema (who was playing, despite being injured, and who may have ultimately made the injury worse) took a quick, though shot that missed... and Point was forced to foul again.

So, though SP still had chances after that point, it effectively ended the game because UST hit their free throws. I just thought it was an incredibly cheap way for a very tough, hardnosed game to end. It was crafty, I'll give you that, but it left a really bad taste in my mouth, even now, several weeks later.

I hadn't talked about it up until this point because, and I'm not kidding here, my hard drive crashed right after the game ended. I was frustrated enough as it was that I didn't go back and post about it later from my other computer and I was trying to fix the one that broke for the rest of the evening.

Darn you Will DeBerg, your shenanigans broke my computer!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 11, 2013, 12:56:57 PM
I agree that UWSP/Tillema is vastly more similar to Wheaton/Raymond than is Cabrini/Walton-Moss (esp. since with their conferences, UWSP - assuming Tillema returns fairly soon - and Wheaton had clear-cut chances for redemption), but I was just seeking a rough analogy for Cabrini ("a team which is completely different once an AA-type player returns").

Adding a player who obviously totally changes the team makes Cabrini an even more than usually puzzling situation of 'very good team in very bad conference'!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 11, 2013, 06:10:58 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 11, 2013, 08:44:29 AM

Rosemont isn't terrible - maybe a top 100 team.  If Cabrini wins by 20+, it would be a positive indication.

They did lose to Wesley with Walton-Moss.  Wesley seems better than I initially thought.  Granted Cabrini's chemistry couldn't have been quite right yet, but there will be room for growth.

With the style they play, I think comparing scores from this year to last year in terms of margin of victory can be helpful as well.

???

Cabrini already beat Rosemont by 16 on the road.  Massey has Rosemont #282, that is nowhere near top 100.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 11, 2013, 11:27:07 PM
Quote from: John Gleich on January 11, 2013, 12:13:57 PM
Perhaps Rochester could make a stab at it... but I don't see them coming through this upcoming weekend unscathed. Chicago will wear them down and Wash U will beat them. Wash U will need some redemption after losing two in a row... because Emory is going to knock off the Bears in the Friday night game (Heard it here first!).

... I expected Alan Aboona to hit 9 3's tonight in Wash U's loss, not 10. The last one killed me!

FWIW, Rochester beat Chicago by 17. So much for "wearing them down..." but I still like Wash U's chances on Sunday.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 13, 2013, 07:17:04 PM
Thanks, Darryl.

Mine is in!  Lots of carnage.  I almost could not find teams for #5 - #9.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 13, 2013, 07:23:42 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 13, 2013, 07:17:04 PM
Thanks, Darryl.

Mine is in!  Lots of carnage.  I almost could not find teams for #5 - #9.

I feel your pain.  I got through #7 fairly easily, but wracked my brain for 10-15 minutes trying to find anyone deserving of #8!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 13, 2013, 10:19:02 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 13, 2013, 07:23:42 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 13, 2013, 07:17:04 PM
Thanks, Darryl.

Mine is in!  Lots of carnage.  I almost could not find teams for #5 - #9.

I feel your pain.  I got through #7 fairly easily, but wracked my brain for 10-15 minutes trying to find anyone deserving of #8!
Yes, I want to have a 7-way for #11 and then go with #12 on!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 14, 2013, 01:18:15 PM
Most guys dream of a 3-way. You set the bar high wanting a 7-way!  :o  ;D  ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 14, 2013, 02:43:11 PM

My ballot is in.  I sure hope things shake out a little better over the next few weeks.

I wrote that F&M is not a Top 25 team unless it's a real down year for D3.  I still think they're outside the Top 25, but I'm starting to waver on the idea that it's not a down year for the division.  The bottom of the ballot is ugly.

We're going to see some crazy results come tournament time.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 14, 2013, 03:22:23 PM
I'm going to see if I can work out a top 25 tonight... I was going to post a response to Dave McHugh's last week, but I realized it wasn't very fair if I hadn't bothered to try to pick myself!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 14, 2013, 03:37:55 PM
Quote from: John Gleich on January 14, 2013, 03:22:23 PM
I'm going to see if I can work out a top 25 tonight... I was going to post a response to Dave McHugh's last week, but I realized it wasn't very fair if I hadn't bothered to try to pick myself!
Please. The discussion that an adequately subscribed poll helps us fans work out the inconsistencies that we imagine in the Polls in general. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 14, 2013, 04:03:33 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on January 14, 2013, 01:18:15 PM
Most guys dream of a 3-way. You set the bar high wanting a 7-way!  :o  ;D  ;)

Everything's bigger in Texas.  Even fantasies
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 14, 2013, 06:28:59 PM
Quote from: sac on January 14, 2013, 04:03:33 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on January 14, 2013, 01:18:15 PM
Most guys dream of a 3-way. You set the bar high wanting a 7-way!  :o  ;D  ;)

Everything's bigger in Texas.  Even fantasies
LOL!  Glad to bring some levity to the board!   ::)    ???    :o     :-\    8-)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 14, 2013, 10:49:49 PM
I'm not gonna be rude enough to ask Ralph the gender and species composition of his '7-way' fantasies!

Been stuck on 6 ballots for WAY too long.  Still ahead of last week, but make Mr. Y happy - somebody send me another ballot! :P
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 14, 2013, 10:57:41 PM
I'll send mine again if that will help!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 14, 2013, 10:59:17 PM
I thought you post it Tuesday evening. Mine will be done tomorrow afternoon
Sorry.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 14, 2013, 11:11:59 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 14, 2013, 10:49:49 PM
I'm not gonna be rude enough to ask Ralph the gender and species composition of his '7-way' fantasies!

Been stuck on 6 ballots for WAY too long.  Still ahead of last week, but make Mr. Y happy - somebody send me another ballot! :P
Thank you for being culturally sensitive!  LOL!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 15, 2013, 01:53:04 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 14, 2013, 10:49:49 PM
Been stuck on 6 ballots for WAY too long.  Still ahead of last week, but make Mr. Y happy - somebody send me another ballot! :P
Will one of the Florida ballots from 2000 work? ;) Where did this first place vote for Franciscan come from? It confused me
I guess I should work on putting mine together
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 15, 2013, 06:01:07 PM
1-6 pretty easy
6-12 confused
13-19 very hard
20-25 completely lost
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 15, 2013, 07:15:05 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on January 15, 2013, 06:01:07 PM
1-6 pretty easy
6-12 confused
13-19 very hard
20-25 completely lost

I'd say this is pretty accurate for me, although only the first four spots were really easy.  I've got St. Thomas, Rochester, North Central, and Whitworth.  I've got no confidence in anyone else right now.

Some years I would really prefer to just do a top 15.  This year, 10 would be plenty.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 15, 2013, 08:41:48 PM
We're now up to ten ballots - any more in the pipeline?

Ralph and I thought we had recruited a new voter from the ODAC (something I've tried just about every year), but no word yet from algernon.

Since the current ten includes all nine from last week (plus John Gleich), I'll start compiling in an hour or so unless I hear from anyone who will vote but needs more time.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 15, 2013, 10:27:44 PM

I think Ypsi fell asleep working on the poll.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 15, 2013, 10:41:01 PM
POSTERS' POLL: thru January 13

1.  St. Thomas   250 (unanimous)
2.  Rochester     239 (almost unanimous - one 3rd)
3.  Whitworth    224 (3,3,3,3,3,3,4,4,4,6)
4.  North Central  220 (2,3,4,4,4,4,4,4,5,6)
5.  UWSP       206 (3,4,5,5,5,6,6,6,7,7)
6.  OWU         185 (3,5,6,6,6,6,8,9,10,16)
7.  WPI          178 (5,6,7,7,8,8,8,10,11,12)
8.  Williams     173 (7,7,7,8,8,8,9,10,10,13)
9.  Midd         165 (5,5,5,5,8,9,9,9,12,-)
10  UWW        138 (7,7,10,11,11,12,13,14,16,21)
t11 Catholic    134 (7,9,9,9,10,11,16,18,18,19)
t11 Wooster    134 (8,9,10,11,11,14,14,15,16,18)
13  IWU          119 (9,11,12,12,13,13,14,18,18,21)
14  St. Mary's   103 (12,13,13,15,15,15,16,17,18,22)
15  Chris Newport  94 (13,14,14,15,15,15,16,17,21,-)
t16 Wash U        84 (10,11,12,13,15,18,19,-,-,-)
t16 Wheaton      84 (10,12,14,17,17,18,19,21,22,-)
18  Ramapo       77 (11,13,14,16,17,17,19,24,-,-)
19  Augie          76 (8,10,14,17,19,19,19,-,-,-)
20  Randolph      58 (12,16,16,17,20,22,22,25,-,-)
21  Stevens       52 (12,16,20,20,20,21,21,-,-,-)
22  Guilford        32 (17,19,19,20,23,-,-,-,-,-)
t23 A. Magnus    30 (11,18,20,25,-,-,-,-,-,-)
t23 Concordia TX  30 (15,22,23,23,23,23,24,25,-,-)
t25 Amherst       28 (13,21,21,21,-,-,-,-,-,-)
t25 Hampden-S   28 14,20,22,22,24,-,-,-,-,-)

27  Calvin         20 (17,23,23,24,24,25)
t28 RHIT          18 (20,20,22,24)
t28 RIC           18 (15,22,24,25)
30  UW-Stout   14 (18,22,24)
31  Transy        9 (21,23,25)
32 Brandeis      8 (22,23,25)
33  St. Norbs    7 (19)
34  Buena V      6 (20)
35  UW-LaX      3 (24,25)
t36 UMHB         2 (25,25)
t36 NYU           2 (24)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 15, 2013, 10:44:50 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 15, 2013, 10:27:44 PM

I think Ypsi fell asleep working on the poll.

I wanted potential voters to have AT LEAST an hour to see my 'warning'. ;)

I'd prefer a bigger poll to an on-time poll.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 15, 2013, 10:45:13 PM

Only 13 teams named on all ballots.  This really is a crazy year.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 15, 2013, 10:49:57 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 15, 2013, 10:27:44 PM

I think Ypsi fell asleep working on the poll.
The Ypster, probably twice as old as you, will outlast you in the wide awake department any day of the week. ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 15, 2013, 10:58:02 PM
Quote from: magicman on January 15, 2013, 10:49:57 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 15, 2013, 10:27:44 PM

I think Ypsi fell asleep working on the poll.
The Ypster, probably twice as old as you, will outlast you in the wide awake department any day of the week.

Yes, of course, I have a seven month old.  That's why I was making the comment.  Some of us need to go to bed.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 15, 2013, 11:03:15 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 15, 2013, 10:41:01 PM
POSTERS' POLL: thru January 13

1.  St. Thomas   250 (unanimous)
2.  Rochester     239 (almost unanimous - one 3rd)
3.  Whitworth    224 (3,3,3,3,3,3,4,4,4,6)
4.  North Central  220 (2,3,4,4,4,4,4,4,5,6)
5.  UWSP       206 (3,4,5,5,5,6,6,6,7,7)
6.  OWU         185 (3,5,6,6,6,6,8,9,10,16)
7.  WPI          178 (5,6,7,7,8,8,8,10,11,12)
8.  Williams     173 (7,7,7,8,8,8,9,10,10,13)
9.  Midd         165 (5,5,5,5,8,9,9,9,12,-)
10  UWW        138 (7,7,10,11,11,12,13,14,16,21)
t11 Catholic    134 (7,9,9,9,10,11,16,18,18,19)
t11 Wooster    134 (8,9,10,11,11,14,14,15,16,18)
13  IWU          119 (9,11,12,12,13,13,14,18,18,21)
14  St. Mary's   103 (12,13,13,15,15,15,16,17,18,22)
15  Chris Newport  94 (13,14,14,15,15,15,16,17,21,-)
t16 Wash U        84 (10,11,12,13,15,18,19,-,-,-)
t16 Wheaton      84 (10,12,14,17,17,18,19,21,22,-)
18  Ramapo       77 (11,13,14,16,17,17,19,24,-,-)
19  Augie          76 (8,10,14,17,19,19,19,-,-,-)
20  Randolph      58 (12,16,16,17,20,22,22,25,-,-)
21  Stevens       52 (12,16,20,20,20,21,21,-,-,-)
22  Guilford        32 (17,19,19,20,23,-,-,-,-,-)
t23 A. Magnus    30 (11,18,20,25,-,-,-,-,-,-)
t23 Concordia TX  30 (15,22,23,23,23,23,24,25,-,-)
t25 Amherst       28 (13,21,21,21,-,-,-,-,-,-)
t25 Hampden-S   28 14,20,22,22,24,-,-,-,-,-)

27  Calvin         20 (17,23,23,24,24,25)
t28 RHIT          18 (20,20,22,24)
t28 RIC           18 (15,22,24,25)
30  UW-Stout   14 (18,22,24)
31  Transy        9 (21,23,25)
t32 Brandeis     7 (22,23)
t32 St. Norbs    7 (19)
34  Buena V      6 (20)
35  UW-LaX      3 (24,25)
t36 UMHB         2 (25,25)
t36 NYU           2 (24)

24 of 25, not bad for me considering I was clueless with some of my selections! LOL

According to my sheet, La Crosse had a power rating of #18 in Massey, their SOS was 23rd and their rating overall strength was 25th.  David Wilson had them at 23.  Amherst was #43, 256, 54 and 79.  Amherst is 12-2, La Crosse was 12-4, with losses to North Central, Whitewater and Stevens Point (and North Park).  Amherst lost to Springfield (12-4) and Babson (8-8). 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 15, 2013, 11:04:28 PM
Quote from: magicman on January 15, 2013, 10:49:57 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 15, 2013, 10:27:44 PM

I think Ypsi fell asleep working on the poll.
The Ypster, probably twice as old as you, will outlast you in the wide awake department any day of the week. ;D

I can't guarantee 'wide' awake, but yeah, I'm usually still on these boards at 1 or 2 am!

I went on the ODAC board and agreed with a poster (algernon?) who predicted no ODAC team would crack the d3.hoops top 25, but they might have 4 clustered in 26-30.  Guilford made it in at #22, and 3 others were 28, 30, and 34.  I told them that VERY early returns in the PP gave 3 teams a solid chance at the PP top 25 (that's when algernon expressed an interest in participating).  Well, they made it: Randolph 20, Guilford 22, and HSC t25 (Va Wes was shut out).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 15, 2013, 11:08:39 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 15, 2013, 10:58:02 PM
Quote from: magicman on January 15, 2013, 10:49:57 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 15, 2013, 10:27:44 PM

I think Ypsi fell asleep working on the poll.
The Ypster, probably twice as old as you, will outlast you in the wide awake department any day of the week.

Yes, of course, I have a seven month old.  That's why I was making the comment.  Some of us need to go to bed.

I vaguely remember those days (my younger son turns 21 on Thursday); only vaguely due to extreme sleep deprivation! ;D

Good luck and glad you are still participating at all!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 15, 2013, 11:13:20 PM
You may wanna check my ballot. I think I was the only guy to have St. Norbert and Buena Vista and I had them in different places than you listed.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 15, 2013, 11:23:43 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 15, 2013, 10:58:02 PM
Quote from: magicman on January 15, 2013, 10:49:57 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 15, 2013, 10:27:44 PM

I think Ypsi fell asleep working on the poll.
The Ypster, probably twice as old as you, will outlast you in the wide awake department any day of the week.

Yes, of course, I have a seven month old.  That's why I was making the comment.  Some of us need to go to bed.

Even before you had the 7 month old he had your number. I remember you leaving Mr. Ypsi and a few other of us fantasy players high and dry on draft night on more than one occasion and the clock had not struck 11 bells. There was no 7 month old then. ???
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 15, 2013, 11:29:04 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 15, 2013, 10:41:01 PM
POSTERS' POLL: thru January 13

1.  St. Thomas   250 (unanimous)
2.  Rochester     239 (almost unanimous - one 3rd)
3.  Whitworth    224 (3,3,3,3,3,3,4,4,4,6)
4.  North Central  220 (2,3,4,4,4,4,4,4,5,6)
5.  UWSP       206 (3,4,5,5,5,6,6,6,7,7)
6.  OWU         185 (3,5,6,6,6,6,8,9,10,16)
7.  WPI          178 (5,6,7,7,8,8,8,10,11,12)
8.  Williams     173 (7,7,7,8,8,8,9,10,10,13)
9.  Midd         165 (5,5,5,5,8,9,9,9,12,-)
10  UWW        138 (7,7,10,11,11,12,13,14,16,21)
t11 Catholic    134 (7,9,9,9,10,11,16,18,18,19)
t11 Wooster    134 (8,9,10,11,11,14,14,15,16,18)
13  IWU          119 (9,11,12,12,13,13,14,18,18,21)
14  St. Mary's   103 (12,13,13,15,15,15,16,17,18,22)
15  Chris Newport  94 (13,14,14,15,15,15,16,17,21,-)
t16 Wash U        84 (10,11,12,13,15,18,19,-,-,-)
t16 Wheaton      84 (10,12,14,17,17,18,19,21,22,-)
18  Ramapo       77 (11,13,14,16,17,17,19,24,-,-)
19  Augie          76 (8,10,14,17,19,19,19,-,-,-)
20  Randolph      58 (12,16,16,17,20,22,22,25,-,-)
21  Stevens       52 (12,16,20,20,20,21,21,-,-,-)
22  Guilford        32 (17,19,19,20,23,-,-,-,-,-)
t23 A. Magnus    30 (11,18,20,25,-,-,-,-,-,-)
t23 Concordia TX  30 (15,22,23,23,23,23,24,25,-,-)
t25 Amherst       28 (13,21,21,21,-,-,-,-,-,-)
t25 Hampden-S   28 14,20,22,22,24,-,-,-,-,-)

27  Calvin         20 (17,23,23,24,24,25)
t28 RHIT          18 (20,20,22,24)
t28 RIC           18 (15,22,24,25)
30  UW-Stout   14 (18,22,24)
31  Transy        9 (21,23,25)
t32 Brandeis     7 (22,23)
t32 St. Norbs    7 (19)
34  Buena V      6 (20)
35  UW-LaX      3 (24,25)
t36 UMHB         2 (25,25)
t36 NYU           2 (24)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 15, 2013, 11:51:53 PM
Quote from: smedindy on January 15, 2013, 11:13:20 PM
You may wanna check my ballot. I think I was the only guy to have St. Norbert and Buena Vista and I had them in different places than you listed.

You had Ramapo at both 13 and 17.  Rather than send it back, I just gave Ramapo 13, and moved everyone below 17 up one slot (and no #25).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 16, 2013, 12:04:02 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 15, 2013, 10:45:13 PM

Only 13 teams named on all ballots.  This really is a crazy year.

On the other hand, I've usually had to deal with 40-45 teams named; so far this year, 35 and 37.

And this week MAY have set a new record: I can't recall a previous week without a 1-point orphan!  Unlike the baseball draft (where the White Sox once drafted Ozzie Guillen's son [who was not even on the baseball team at North Park] as a 'favor'), OUR #25 picks seem legit!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 16, 2013, 12:36:04 AM
Thanks, John and Greek. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 16, 2013, 07:43:47 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 15, 2013, 11:51:53 PM
Quote from: smedindy on January 15, 2013, 11:13:20 PM
You may wanna check my ballot. I think I was the only guy to have St. Norbert and Buena Vista and I had them in different places than you listed.

You had Ramapo at both 13 and 17.  Rather than send it back, I just gave Ramapo 13, and moved everyone below 17 up one slot (and no #25).

You should have IMd me. I may have slightly altered things.

Move Brandeis to #25 then and retally since I can't re-do it. I'll do better next time.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 16, 2013, 10:53:35 AM
smed, normally I return such a ballot to let the voter make corrections, but I was short of time that day.  I've amended the poll results.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 16, 2013, 11:00:27 AM
Thanks. I have everything in a spreadsheet but forgot to delete and move up. Carnage will do that...
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 16, 2013, 04:29:43 PM
Here's the ballot from the guy in the Northeast.
POSTERS' POLL: thru January 13

1.  St. Thomas   250 (unanimous)
2.  Rochester     239 (almost unanimous - one 3rd)
3.  Whitworth    224 (3,3,3,3,3,3,4,4,4,6)
4.  North Central  220 (2,3,4,4,4,4,4,4,5,6)
5.  UWSP       206 (3,4,5,5,5,6,6,6,7,7)
6.  OWU         185 (3,5,6,6,6,6,8,9,10,16)
7.  WPI          178 (5,6,7,7,8,8,8,10,11,12)
8.  Williams     173 (7,7,7,8,8,8,9,10,10,13)
9.  Midd         165 (5,5,5,5,8,9,9,9,12,-)
10  UWW        138 (7,7,110,11,11,12,13,14,16,21)
t11 Catholic    134 (7,9,9,9,10,11,16,18,18,19)
t11 Wooster    134 (8,9,10,11,11,14,14,15,16,18)
13  IWU          119 (9,11,12,12,13,13,14,18,18,21)
14  St. Mary's   103 (12,13,13,15,15,15,16,17,18,22)
15  Chris Newport  94 (13,14,14,15,15,15,16,17,21,-)
t16 Wash U        84 (10,11,12,13,15,18,19,-,-,-)
t16 Wheaton      84 (10,12,14,17,17,18,19,21,22,-)
18  Ramapo       77 (11,13,14,16,17,17,19,24,-,-)
19  Augie          76 (8,10,14,17,19,19,19,-,-,-)
20  Randolph      58 (12,16,16,17,20,22,22,25,-,-)
21  Stevens       52 (12,16,20,20,20,21,21,-,-,-)
22  Guilford        32 (17,19,19,20,23,-,-,-,-,-)
t23 A. Magnus    30 (11,18,20,25,-,-,-,-,-,-)
t23 Concordia TX  30 (15,22,23,23,23,23,24,25,-,-)
t25 Amherst       28 (13,21,21,21,-,-,-,-,-,-)
t25 Hampden-S   28 14,20,22,22,24,-,-,-,-,-)

27  Calvin         20 (17,23,23,24,24,25)
t28 RHIT          18 (20,20,22,24)
t28 RIC           18 (15,22,24,25)
30  UW-Stout   14 (18,22,24)
31  Transy        9 (21,23,25)
32 Brandeis      8 (22,23,25)
33  St. Norbs    7 (19)
34  Buena V      6 (20)
35  UW-LaX      3 (24,25)
t36 UMHB         2 (25,25)
t36 NYU           2 (24)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 16, 2013, 05:00:33 PM
Quote from: magicman on January 15, 2013, 11:23:43 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 15, 2013, 10:58:02 PM
Quote from: magicman on January 15, 2013, 10:49:57 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 15, 2013, 10:27:44 PM

I think Ypsi fell asleep working on the poll.
The Ypster, probably twice as old as you, will outlast you in the wide awake department any day of the week.

Yes, of course, I have a seven month old.  That's why I was making the comment.  Some of us need to go to bed.

Even before you had the 7 month old he had your number. I remember you leaving Mr. Ypsi and a few other of us fantasy players high and dry on draft night on more than one occasion and the clock had not struck 11 bells. There was no 7 month old then. ???

Nope, then it was a 5am wake up call for dry cleaning delivery.  It's a sad state of affairs growing up.  I always pined for a job that went from 10-6, but it's not worked out that way.

Plus, if I'm defending not spending more time on the boards, I'll take that any day.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 16, 2013, 05:11:27 PM
Because of the carnage this week, I don't think my list, especially in the middle, is all that great, but it's the best I could do this week.

POSTERS' POLL: thru January 13

1.  St. Thomas   250 (unanimous)
2.  Rochester     239 (almost unanimous - one 3rd)
3.  Whitworth    224 (3,3,3,3,3,3,4,4,4,6)
4.  North Central  220 (2,3,4,4,4,4,4,4,5,6)
5.  UWSP       206 (3,4,5,5,5,6,6,6,7,7)
6.  OWU         185 (3,5,6,6,6,6,8,9,10,16)
7.  WPI          178 (5,6,7,7,8,8,8,10,11,12)
8.  Williams     173 (7,7,7,8,8,8,9,10,10,13)
9.  Midd         165 (5,5,5,5,8,9,9,9,12,-)
10  UWW        138 (7,7,10,11,11,12,13,14,16,21)
t11 Catholic    134 (7,9,9,9,10,11,16,18,18,19)
t11 Wooster    134 (8,9,10,11,11,14,14,15,16,18)
13  IWU          119 (9,11,12,12,13,13,14,18,18,21)
14  St. Mary's   103 (12,13,13,15,15,15,16,17,18,22)
15  Chris Newport  94 (13,14,14,15,15,15,16,17,21,-)
t16 Wash U        84 (10,11,12,13,15,18,19,-,-,-)
t16 Wheaton      84 (10,12,14,17,17,18,19,21,22,-)
18  Ramapo       77 (11,13,14,16,17,17,19,24,-,-)
19  Augie          76 (8,10,14,17,19,19,19,-,-,-)
20  Randolph      58 (12,16,16,17,20,22,22,25,-,-)
21  Stevens       52 (12,16,20,20,20,21,21,-,-,-)
22  Guilford        32 (17,19,19,20,23,-,-,-,-,-)
t23 A. Magnus    30 (11,18,20,25,-,-,-,-,-,-)
t23 Concordia TX  30 (15,22,23,23,23,23,24,25,-,-)
t25 Amherst       28 (13,21,21,21,-,-,-,-,-,-)
t25 Hampden-S   28 14,20,22,22,24,-,-,-,-,-)

27  Calvin         20 (17,23,23,24,24,25)
t28 RHIT          18 (20,20,22,24)
t28 RIC           18 (15,22,24,25)
30  UW-Stout   14 (18,22,24)
31  Transy        9 (21,23,25)
32 Brandeis      8 (22,23,25)
33  St. Norbs    7 (19)
34  Buena V      6 (20)
35  UW-LaX      3 (24,25)
t36 UMHB         2 (25,25)
t36 NYU           2 (24)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 16, 2013, 05:25:52 PM

I just realized F&M didn't get a single vote.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 16, 2013, 05:28:07 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 16, 2013, 12:04:02 AMUnlike the baseball draft (where the White Sox once drafted Ozzie Guillen's son [who was not even on the baseball team at North Park]

Not true, Chuck. Oney Guillen most certainly was a member of the 2006 NPU baseball team. He just wasn't very good. (http://www.cadillac76.com/baseball/history/careerAZ/g/guillen_oney.html)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 17, 2013, 12:00:46 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 16, 2013, 05:25:52 PM

I just realized F&M didn't get a single vote.

After your scathing review when they lost to Washington College, none of us dared to vote for them. ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 17, 2013, 02:11:07 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 16, 2013, 05:28:07 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 16, 2013, 12:04:02 AMUnlike the baseball draft (where the White Sox once drafted Ozzie Guillen's son [who was not even on the baseball team at North Park]

Not true, Chuck. Oney Guillen most certainly was a member of the 2006 NPU baseball team. He just wasn't very good. (http://www.cadillac76.com/baseball/history/careerAZ/g/guillen_oney.html)

My bad.  I remembered he was at NPU, and yeah, I guess he was sorta on the team!  "Guys!  Even with a slugging% and OBP below .300, come to NPU and you too can get a contract with a major league team!"*

*as long as you have the right daddy!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 17, 2013, 06:18:56 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 17, 2013, 02:11:07 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 16, 2013, 05:28:07 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 16, 2013, 12:04:02 AMUnlike the baseball draft (where the White Sox once drafted Ozzie Guillen's son [who was not even on the baseball team at North Park]

Not true, Chuck. Oney Guillen most certainly was a member of the 2006 NPU baseball team. He just wasn't very good. (http://www.cadillac76.com/baseball/history/careerAZ/g/guillen_oney.html)

My bad.  I remembered he was at NPU, and yeah, I guess he was sorta on the team!  "Guys!  Even with a slugging% and OBP below .300, come to NPU and you too can get a contract with a major league team!"*

*as long as you have the right daddy!

You clearly know nothing about Luke Johnson, Chuck. He's the last guy on Earth who would start a player on his team out of sheer nepotism.

The fact of the matter is that it was his second season after inheriting what had been a 1-39 team the year before. The rebuilding Vikings still weren't very good in 2006, and that was reflected in the subpar performance of starting shortstop Oney Guillen.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 17, 2013, 06:23:58 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 17, 2013, 06:18:56 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 17, 2013, 02:11:07 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 16, 2013, 05:28:07 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 16, 2013, 12:04:02 AMUnlike the baseball draft (where the White Sox once drafted Ozzie Guillen's son [who was not even on the baseball team at North Park]

Not true, Chuck. Oney Guillen most certainly was a member of the 2006 NPU baseball team. He just wasn't very good. (http://www.cadillac76.com/baseball/history/careerAZ/g/guillen_oney.html)

My bad.  I remembered he was at NPU, and yeah, I guess he was sorta on the team!  "Guys!  Even with a slugging% and OBP below .300, come to NPU and you too can get a contract with a major league team!"*

*as long as you have the right daddy!

You clearly know nothing about Luke Johnson, Chuck. He's the last guy on Earth who would start a player on his team out of sheer nepotism.

The fact of the matter is that it was his second season after inheriting what had been a 1-39 team the year before. The rebuilding Vikings still weren't very good in 2006, and that was reflected in the subpar performance of starting shortstop Oney Guillen.

Sorry if I somehow implied he played for NPU only because of family connections - that is not my belief not was it my intention.  I was attempting a humorous recruiting pitch the NPU baseball program could use! ;D  "Come to NPU; even our subpar players get drafted!"
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 17, 2013, 06:55:35 PM
In truth, Oney Guillen was an embarrassment. White Sox fans well remember Tweetgate and his role in that episode, and from everything I heard Oney was every bit as much of a loose cannon when he wore an NPU uniform as he was when he blasted White Sox pitcher Bobby Jenks on Twitter.

There was a bit of a buzz around campus when NPU first got Oney, but that buzz died fast once people realized that he was a minus rather than a plus for the program.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 17, 2013, 10:45:14 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 17, 2013, 06:18:56 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 17, 2013, 02:11:07 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 16, 2013, 05:28:07 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 16, 2013, 12:04:02 AMUnlike the baseball draft (where the White Sox once drafted Ozzie Guillen's son [who was not even on the baseball team at North Park]

Not true, Chuck. Oney Guillen most certainly was a member of the 2006 NPU baseball team. He just wasn't very good. (http://www.cadillac76.com/baseball/history/careerAZ/g/guillen_oney.html)

My bad.  I remembered he was at NPU, and yeah, I guess he was sorta on the team!  "Guys!  Even with a slugging% and OBP below .300, come to NPU and you too can get a contract with a major league team!"*

*as long as you have the right daddy!

You clearly know nothing about Luke Johnson, Chuck. He's the last guy on Earth who would start a player on his team out of sheer nepotism.

The fact of the matter is that it was his second season after inheriting what had been a 1-39 team the year before. The rebuilding Vikings still weren't very good in 2006, and that was reflected in the subpar performance of starting shortstop Oney Guillen.

Hold on, hold on.........how many Luke Johnson's are there over there?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 17, 2013, 10:57:32 PM
Luke Johnson, the NPU baseball coach, is the only one that matters in my book.

Luke Johnson, the erstwhile Carthage basketball player who is now a Benedictine basketball player, stopped mattering to me once he transferred out of the CCIW.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 18, 2013, 01:17:15 AM
Quote from: magicman on January 17, 2013, 12:00:46 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 16, 2013, 05:25:52 PM

I just realized F&M didn't get a single vote.

After your scathing review when they lost to Washington College, none of us dared to vote for them. ;D

I did not know I had that kind of sway.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 18, 2013, 02:14:23 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 18, 2013, 01:17:15 AM
Quote from: magicman on January 17, 2013, 12:00:46 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 16, 2013, 05:25:52 PM

I just realized F&M didn't get a single vote.

After your scathing review when they lost to Washington College, none of us dared to vote for them. ;D

I did not know I had that kind of sway.

Don't worry about expressing your opinions candidly; you don't!  We (collectively) had already decided that d3hoops.com had them grossly over-ranked at #14 (we had them #23); losing to (then) winless Washington College was the last straw! ;)

What I love best about PP is NONE of us has much sway!  We ARE a feisty bunch! 8-)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: frodotwo on January 18, 2013, 05:11:52 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 18, 2013, 02:14:23 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 18, 2013, 01:17:15 AM
Quote from: magicman on January 17, 2013, 12:00:46 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 16, 2013, 05:25:52 PM

I just realized F&M didn't get a single vote.

After your scathing review when they lost to Washington College, none of us dared to vote for them. ;D

I did not know I had that kind of sway.

Don't worry about expressing your opinions candidly; you don't!  We (collectively) had already decided that d3hoops.com had them grossly over-ranked at #14 (we had them #23); losing to (then) winless Washington College was the last straw! ;)

What I love best about PP is NONE of us has much sway!  We ARE a feisty bunch! 8-)

Not even in my own house  ::)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 21, 2013, 12:54:26 AM
Mine is in.  Thanks Darryl!  +1!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 21, 2013, 12:40:32 PM

Mine's in.  I'm still not happy about the options, but it is what it is.

I have ODAC teams sitting 26-29 right now.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 21, 2013, 02:39:14 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 21, 2013, 12:40:32 PM

Mine's in.  I'm still not happy about the options, but it is what it is.

I have ODAC teams sitting 26-29 right now.
I was happier this week than last week.  "No 7-ways".  LOL.   :P

I think that we are seeing some separation.  I am glad to see the strength in the second and third CCIW teams.

I think that they ODAC is a bit down, but I also think that the ODAC will have a team in the Elite 8.

I am waiting for late January/early February slip-ups to hit those whose record more accurately reflects a good team on a hot streak, than a solid contender.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 21, 2013, 04:21:18 PM
We reached six ballots in near-record time, but have now been stuck there for several hours.  C'mon - let's set a new voter record this week!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 21, 2013, 06:31:36 PM
Mine was fairly easy except 20-25.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 21, 2013, 10:44:14 PM
PLEASE remember that Monday games do not count for this poll!  If you have yet to submit a ballot, vote as though Albertus Magnus still has only 1 loss (to a d1 team), and St. Thomas is still undefeated.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 22, 2013, 12:27:08 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 21, 2013, 10:44:14 PM
PLEASE remember that Monday games do not count for this poll!  If you have yet to submit a ballot, vote as though Albertus Magnus still has only 1 loss (to a d1 team), and St. Thomas is still undefeated.

I can certainly do that, seeing as how I didn't have Albertus Magnus in my Top 25 last week, their loss tonight doesn't change a thing. I've been trying to do a poll since 11 AM Monday morning but had major distractions at my store and only got as far as #11. Didn't get home from work until 11:15 Monday night and now it's already Tuesday morning. I'm working on the rest of my poll right now and will finish it and send it in.. St. Thomas was slotted at #1 and that's where I'm leaving them despite the fact that I now know they got upset.   
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 22, 2013, 01:31:38 PM
My poll finally made it at 9:22 this morning. It mysteriously left my computer as I was about to send it to Mr. Ypsi hours earlier and disappeared into the ether. I took a nap in hopes it would return but sadly it didn't, necessitating a complete do over. I could remember my placements from 1 through 15 but those last 10 were tough to regurgitate.   
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 22, 2013, 01:49:25 PM
Dag gummit... Ypsi, can you sent my poll back again for my "records?" I keep forgetting to tick the little box to send a copy to myself.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 22, 2013, 04:46:20 PM
JG, poll sent.

We're now up to 10, which includes everyone from last week.  I'll compile starting about 9 est unless anyone wishes to vote but needs more time.  sac?  Greg?  anyone else?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 22, 2013, 10:18:53 PM
POSTERS' POLL, thru games of Jan 20

1.  St. Thomas     275 (unanimous - though not for long!)
2.  Rochester       259 (2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,3,6)
3.  North Central   237 (2,3,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,6,10)
4.  Whitworth       236 (2,3,3,3,3,3,3,4,4,5,17)
5.  UWSP             220 (3,3,4,5,5,5,6,6,6,7,16)
6.  Williams           215 (3,5,6,7,7,8,8,8,9,9,11)
7.  WPI                201 (5,6,6,7,7,7,8,8,9,10,12)
8.  Middlebury       194 (5,5,5,5,6,7,8,8,9,11,23)
9.  Wooster          172 (6,7,8,10,10,10,11,12,13,13,14)
10  Catholic          168 (5,7,8,8,9,9,11,13,14,16,18)
11  UWW              154 (6,7,9,10,10,10,10,12,14,21,23)
12  IWU                151 (8,9,10,11,11,11,13,14,16,16,16)
13  St. Mary's        109 (11,12,12,13,13,14,16,16,18,-,-)
14  Chris Newport    98 (12,13,14,14,15,15,16,17,20,-,-)
15  Ramapo            94 (10,12,12,14,15,17,18,21,21,-,-)
16  OWU                77 (9,15,16,18,18,19,19,21,24,24,-,-)
17  Stevens            73 (11,15,15,16,17,17,20,24,-,-,-)
18  Calvin               71 (7,13,14,18,20,22,22,23,24,-,-)
19  Wheaton           67 (16,17,18,18,19,19,19,20,22,25,-)
t20 Amherst            60 (9,13,15,17,20,22,-,-,-,-,-)
t20 Wash U             60 (11,14,18,18,19,21,22,25,-,-,-)
22  Hampden-S        59 (4,9,19,19,23,23,-,-,-,-,-)
23  Augustana         50 (12,13,17,23,25,-,-,-,-,-,-)
24  Randolph           46 (12,14,15,21,23,25,-,-,-,-,-)
25  Brandeis            43 (15,17,19,20,21,23,24,-,-,-,-)

26  RHIT                 41 (12,15,20,20,24,25,25)
27  A. Magnus          36 (11,17,20,20)
28  RIC                   26 (15,20,21,23,25)
29  St. Norbert         22 (13,17)
t30 Guilford              21 (21,22,22,22,24,24)
t30 Transylvania       21 (19,19,22,24,25)
32  UW-Stout          19 (18,21,22,25,25)
33  Concordia TX       7 (21,24)
34  UMHB                 6 (23,24,25)
35  MIT                   4 (22)
36  Wesley               3 (23)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 22, 2013, 10:27:08 PM
50-50 chance I vote for St. Thomas again next week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 22, 2013, 10:38:51 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 22, 2013, 10:27:08 PM
50-50 chance I vote for St. Thomas again next week.

Me too ... in another poll but same for me.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 22, 2013, 10:48:26 PM
Honestly it will probably take quite a bit for me to not vote St. Thomas #1.  I win Mr. Outlier this week. :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 22, 2013, 11:44:11 PM
Quote from: sac on January 22, 2013, 10:48:26 PM
Honestly it will probably take quite a bit for me to not vote St. Thomas #1.  I win Mr. Outlier this week. :)

Calvin at seven?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 22, 2013, 11:59:51 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 22, 2013, 10:38:51 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 22, 2013, 10:27:08 PM
50-50 chance I vote for St. Thomas again next week.

Me too ... in another poll but same for me.

Pat, of the top ten most frequent posters, six are current voters, and Gregory Sager and KnightStalker have voted in the past.  That leaves only you and Titan Q - you are both invited to submit ballots! ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 23, 2013, 12:29:17 AM
We're movin' the right direction: 9 voters the first week, 10 last week, 11 this week!  While placement for many teams was all over the place, we had only 36 teams named, and nearly all of the non-top 25 teams received multiple votes (only two orphans, and two 2-vote teams, in the whole lot).  We don't agree (thankfully!) on a top 25, but we seem to be pretty centered on a top 32-36.  THIS week, anyway!

Re: St. Thomas.  I didn't say they necessarily wouldn't still be #1 next week, but I feel safe in saying that, even if they are, it won't be unanimous.  I won't guarantee it, since I don't know how this week will go, how others will vote, or even how I will vote.  But Rochester was pretty close to unanimous at #2 and is (so far) undefeated.  #3 NCC faces TWO top 25 teams this week - win 'em both and they probably have my vote.  Former #3 (now #4 by one vote) Whitworth is still cruising along.  AND Williams also faces two top 25 teams this week.

This week is almost guaranteed to be the big shake-out week of the PP season - can't wait!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 23, 2013, 12:35:38 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 22, 2013, 11:44:11 PM
Quote from: sac on January 22, 2013, 10:48:26 PM
Honestly it will probably take quite a bit for me to not vote St. Thomas #1.  I win Mr. Outlier this week. :)

Calvin at seven?

The Calvin team I saw last Wed. is a top 10 team.  Call it a respect vote.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 23, 2013, 09:06:42 AM
Where did you have Calvin slotted last week?

I thought seeing Whitworh and Stevens Point at17 and 16 was interesting. Seeing Hamp- Syd voted 4th stood out as well, especially since 5 other voters didnt even have them ranked.

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 23, 2013, 12:21:47 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on January 23, 2013, 09:06:42 AM
Where did you have Calvin slotted last week?

I thought seeing Whitworh and Stevens Point at17 and 16 was interesting. Seeing Hamp- Syd voted 4th stood out as well, especially since 5 other voters didnt even have them ranked.
I'm just not as enamored with Whitworth as others.
This was the first poll I've done, so there will be adjustments next week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 27, 2013, 11:29:45 PM
We started at a record pace - 3 ballots before 6pm Sunday!

Since then, nothing but crickets. :P

(Actually, I lied - we got 3 inches of snow tonight - not even crickets! ;))
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 28, 2013, 08:12:16 AM
We had 3 inches of snow too. Then I had to shovel it rain, thunder and lightning!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 28, 2013, 11:57:01 AM

Putting the poll together this week was actually fun.  With so many teams losing, it's actually making it a bit easier to choose among them.

I left St. Thomas #1 and put Rochester #2.  I like the Rochester team all around.  I think they're fantastic, but I'm going to wait until they go to Brandeis next week before giving them the full vote of confidence. 

Similarly, I have IWU at #10.  I think they might be even better than that, but I want to see them go to Augustana this week.  Road performances against good teams mean a lot.

Also, I didn't punish North Central as much as I'd like or as much as they deserve given the product on the floor.  Those were two tough road losses and the team's banged up.  I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt and waiting to see if they return to form or continue to tail off.

Going to Williams and only losing by one actually improved Middlebury's case in my eyes.

It should be a fun final month.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 28, 2013, 05:47:48 PM
A flurry of returns early today brought us to six, but been stalled for several hours now.  We've increased voter numbers each week so far (9, then 10, then 11) - let's keep it up!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 28, 2013, 05:52:31 PM
And WHILE I was typing the last post, #7 came in!  Thanks sac.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 28, 2013, 06:17:50 PM
Patience, grasshopper.  I have a 2-year old to deal with, along with a wife that just got a cortisone shot in her back.  I have double duty for two days.  I'm working on it and should be out to you this evening.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 28, 2013, 07:23:13 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on January 28, 2013, 06:17:50 PM
Patience, grasshopper.  I have a 2-year old to deal with, along with a wife that just got a cortisone shot in her back.  I have double duty for two days.  I'm working on it and should be out to you this evening.

You people with one child have it easy, I tell ya what.

I'll have mine done later tonight after the twins are asleep and after my wife leaves for her small group.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 28, 2013, 08:02:47 PM
Mine was one of the first three, and finished before the official Top 25 came out.  I like how I had voted the previous week, so there was not much carnage to my poll. I have a few teams that are somewhat "different" from the rankings in the Official Top 25, but have 23 of the Top 26 on my ballot, and the other 3 were on my watch list..

In this part of the country, UMHB is doing what it needs to do to win the ASC.  They need to beat Concordia and HSU this week on the road.  Winning both of those games (on the road) will justify a Top 25 vote, IMHO.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 28, 2013, 08:42:02 PM
UMHB looks like they will already be in the Top 25 in our poll (6 of 7 mentions so far, though 4 of them in the 20s).

A FEW positionss pretty well set, but LOTS of slots still up for grabs by later voters.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 28, 2013, 08:54:07 PM
Just sent mine in. Hope Mr. Y is listening to Hoopsville as his favorite coach, IWU's Ron Rose, is on the air as I type this.

I've had Mary Hardin-Baylor on my ballot for the past 3 weeks. Massey has them at #20 with a jump of 7 spots this week. Their SOS is #58.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 29, 2013, 10:50:34 AM
Gah! Completely forgot about this last night.

I've got something tonight until pretty late right after work.

I'll see if I can pull something together during a break today... otherwise, don't wait for me, I'll get it to you tomorrow (without looking at the results, of course!)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 29, 2013, 10:59:55 AM
Quote from: John Gleich on January 28, 2013, 07:23:13 PM
I'll have mine done later tonight after the twins are asleep and after my wife leaves for her small group.

Quote from: John Gleich on January 29, 2013, 10:50:34 AM
Gah! Completely forgot about this last night.

Must have been watching Barclays Premier League soccer., or as I like to put it, British Premier League.  :-\
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 29, 2013, 11:22:28 AM

The only team I really dropped was WashU - both they and WPI had snuck up my ballot a bit too far without my noticing.  I dropped three teams total, but not a lot of movement overall.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 29, 2013, 12:37:14 PM
I'm in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 29, 2013, 05:16:30 PM
I have now received ballots from all 11 voters who participated last week (earliest time ever - thanks, guys!).  I sent out requests to a couple of potential new voters, but no word yet - I'll hold off a couple more hours in hopes of a new high in voter participation.

Anyone working on another ballot? ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 29, 2013, 07:42:12 PM
POSTERS' POLL (games through January 27th):

1.  Rochester      271 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2)
2.  St. Thomas    262 (1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2,3,4,5)
3.  UWSP           243 (3,3,3,3,3,4,4,4,4,4,8)
4.  Whitworth      237 (2,2,2,3,3,3,4,4,5,6,15)
5.  WPI              199 (4,5,5,5,5,5,7,11,11,13,16)
6.  NCC              196 (3,5,7,7,7,8,8,11,11,11,12)
7.  Wooster         185 (6,7,7,8,8,9,10,10,11,11,14)
t8  Catholic         184 (4,6,6,6,8,8,11,12,12,14,15)
t8.  Williams         184 (5,6,6,7,7,9,9,10,13,14,16)
10  IWU              174 (5,8,9,9,9,9,10,10,11,16,16)
11  Middlebury     168 (6,6,7,7,8,8,8,11,17,18,22)
12  UWW             141 (5,9,10,10,11,13,15,16,17,18,21)
13  St. Mary's       132 (9,12,12,13,13,13,13,14,15,17,23)
14  Amherst          111 (6,6,7,13,14,15,19,22,23,24,-)
15  Ramapo           110 (9,10,13,14,14,14,17,19,19,21,-)
t16 Chris Newport   107 (9,12,12,15,15,15,15,17,18,25,-)
t16 Hampden-S      107 (3,4,14,16,18,19,20,20,20,22,23)
t16 Wheaton          107 (10,12,12,14,16,16,18,18,18,19,-)
19  Calvin               88 (10,10,12,15,17,20,20,20,22,-,-)
20  RHIT                51 (13,16,17,18,21,22,25,25,-,-,-)
21  WashU              47 (14,17,18,19,20,21,-,-,-,-,-)
22  RIC                  45 (12,19,19,19,20,24,25,25,-,-,-)
23  Transy              43 (17,18,19,21,22,23,23,24,24,-,-)
24  Augie                40 (13,15,17,21,24,-,-,-,-,-,-)
25  UMHB                32 (19,20,21,22,23,23,23,25,-,-,-)

26  UW-Stout          25 (16,20,22,22,25)
27  St. Norbert         22 (16,20,21,25)
28  Randolph            13 (17,22)
29  A. Magnus           8 (18)
t30 Concordia TX       7 (21,24)
t30 OWU                  7 (23,24,24)
t30 Wesley               7 ( 21,24)
33  MIT                   5 (21)
t34 Cortland St.        4 (23,25)
t34 Stevens             4 (22)
36  Lynchburg           3 (23)
t37 Brandeis             2 (25,25)
t37 Centre               2 (24)
t37 Emory                2 (24)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 29, 2013, 07:48:26 PM
Some astonishingly close races this week (which is part of the reason I really hoped for a 12th ballot).  #7 is ONE point above two teams tied for 8th.  Meanwhile, at 16th, we had the first ever three-way tie among teams IN the Top 25.  YOUR vote DOES make a difference! 8-)

Whether it makes a good difference or a bad difference is all the the eye of the beholder! ;)

Like the d3hoops.com poll we punished St. Thomas and NCC only minimally.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Charles on January 29, 2013, 07:56:24 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 29, 2013, 07:48:26 PM
Some astonishingly close races this week (which is part of the reason I really hoped for a 12th ballot).  #7 is ONE point above two teams tied for 8th.  Meanwhile, at 16th, we had the first ever three-way tie among teams IN the Top 25.  YOUR vote DOES make a difference! 8-)

Whether it makes a good difference or a bad difference is all the the eye of the beholder! ;)

Like the d3hoops.com poll we punished St. Thomas and NCC only minimally.

Interesting, must have a regional play.

Middlebury  had a couple of 6s and a 22
UWW a 5 and a 21   
Amherst  had a 6 and a 22, 23 and 24
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 29, 2013, 08:05:03 PM
Quote from: Charles on January 29, 2013, 07:56:24 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 29, 2013, 07:48:26 PM
Some astonishingly close races this week (which is part of the reason I really hoped for a 12th ballot).  #7 is ONE point above two teams tied for 8th.  Meanwhile, at 16th, we had the first ever three-way tie among teams IN the Top 25.  YOUR vote DOES make a difference! 8-)

Whether it makes a good difference or a bad difference is all the the eye of the beholder! ;)

Like the d3hoops.com poll we punished St. Thomas and NCC only minimally.

Interesting, must have a regional play.

Middlebury  had a couple of 6s and a 22
UWW a 5 and a 21   
Amherst  had a 6 and a 22, 23 and 24

We've always had wide discrepancies on some teams (pretty good consensus on others) - I suspect it has to do with emphasizing record vs. emphasizing SOS.

As to regional bias, I've never detected it.  If anything, it seems like voters tend to be harder on their local teams, though I've never dug into the data very deeply.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Charles on January 29, 2013, 08:10:13 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 29, 2013, 08:05:03 PM
Quote from: Charles on January 29, 2013, 07:56:24 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 29, 2013, 07:48:26 PM
Some astonishingly close races this week (which is part of the reason I really hoped for a 12th ballot).  #7 is ONE point above two teams tied for 8th.  Meanwhile, at 16th, we had the first ever three-way tie among teams IN the Top 25.  YOUR vote DOES make a difference! 8-)

Whether it makes a good difference or a bad difference is all the the eye of the beholder! ;)

Like the d3hoops.com poll we punished St. Thomas and NCC only minimally.

Interesting, must have a regional play.

Middlebury  had a couple of 6s and a 22
UWW a 5 and a 21   
Amherst  had a 6 and a 22, 23 and 24

We've always had wide discrepancies on some teams (pretty good consensus on others) - I suspect it has to do with emphasizing record vs. emphasizing SOS.

As to regional bias, I've never detected it.  If anything, it seems like voters tend to be harder on their local teams, though I've never dug into the data very deeply.

Do you have voters from every region? SOS really only comes into play in the tournament. Then the paper lions with great records but easy SOS get exposed.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 29, 2013, 08:20:50 PM
Quote from: Charles on January 29, 2013, 08:10:13 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 29, 2013, 08:05:03 PM
Quote from: Charles on January 29, 2013, 07:56:24 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 29, 2013, 07:48:26 PM
Some astonishingly close races this week (which is part of the reason I really hoped for a 12th ballot).  #7 is ONE point above two teams tied for 8th.  Meanwhile, at 16th, we had the first ever three-way tie among teams IN the Top 25.  YOUR vote DOES make a difference! 8-)

Whether it makes a good difference or a bad difference is all the the eye of the beholder! ;)

Like the d3hoops.com poll we punished St. Thomas and NCC only minimally.

Interesting, must have a regional play.

Middlebury  had a couple of 6s and a 22
UWW a 5 and a 21   
Amherst  had a 6 and a 22, 23 and 24

We've always had wide discrepancies on some teams (pretty good consensus on others) - I suspect it has to do with emphasizing record vs. emphasizing SOS.

As to regional bias, I've never detected it.  If anything, it seems like voters tend to be harder on their local teams, though I've never dug into the data very deeply.

Do you have voters from every region? SOS really only comes into play in the tournament. Then the paper lions with great records but easy SOS get exposed.

With only 11 current voters, clearly we don't represent every region, though I'm reasonably pleased with the diversity.  We ARE greatly overrepresented in the (geographical, not d3 region name) midwest.

I didn't mean SOS in the official sense, but general strength of schedule, which I'm sure all of us do have a pretty clear conception of.  Some teams play lots of very tough teams; others not so much.  I'm sure we all factor that in, but differences in degree of weighting can easily explain discrepancies for teams like Midd vs. UWW (though I'm not real comfortable with the SIZE of the discrepancy, but I've learned to live with it! ;D).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 29, 2013, 09:00:52 PM

Who left Wheaton off altogether?  That was the biggest surprise to me.


Charles, I'm generally a NE guy (although I live in the MA region now) and I can attest that the NE teams usually get treated better than they deserve here.

This week it seems like the Massey ratings had a larger than normal influence on the outcome (Hampden-Sydney, anyone?), but normally I think we're pretty fair.

Strength of schedule is a big concern.  I won't even think about ranking Albertus Magnus this year (I might have were they to have beaten Yale).  I'm skeptical of WPI and even Middlebury to some extent.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 29, 2013, 09:21:53 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 29, 2013, 09:00:52 PM

Who left Wheaton off altogether?  That was the biggest surprise to me.


Charles, I'm generally a NE guy (although I live in the MA region now) and I can attest that the NE teams usually get treated better than they deserve here.

This week it seems like the Massey ratings had a larger than normal influence on the outcome (Hampden-Sydney, anyone?), but normally I think we're pretty fair.

Strength of schedule is a big concern.  I won't even think about ranking Albertus Magnus this year (I might have were they to have beaten Yale).  I'm skeptical of WPI and even Middlebury to some extent.

Massey has nothing to do with my ranking Hampden-Sydney #3.  They are my 'MIT' this year. :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 29, 2013, 09:44:14 PM
Quote from: sac on January 29, 2013, 09:21:53 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 29, 2013, 09:00:52 PM

Who left Wheaton off altogether?  That was the biggest surprise to me.


Charles, I'm generally a NE guy (although I live in the MA region now) and I can attest that the NE teams usually get treated better than they deserve here.

This week it seems like the Massey ratings had a larger than normal influence on the outcome (Hampden-Sydney, anyone?), but normally I think we're pretty fair.

Strength of schedule is a big concern.  I won't even think about ranking Albertus Magnus this year (I might have were they to have beaten Yale).  I'm skeptical of WPI and even Middlebury to some extent.

Massey has nothing to do with my ranking Hampden-Sydney #3.  They are my 'MIT' this year. :)
Well, your #3 is not an orphan.  Someone else sees them at #4!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 29, 2013, 09:59:26 PM
Ralph, and that would be our Calvin voter - must be an MIAA thing for the ODAC! ;D

I've been pumping the ODAC for years, but soured a bit after Guilford went south recently.  I probably have HSC too low at 19th - if I'd flip-flopped them and CNU I could have resolved that whole 3-way tie at 16th! 8-) 

(Of course, a 12th voter also would have done it - Charles?  Or even better - Algernon? [an ODAC poster])
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Charles on January 30, 2013, 07:54:55 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 29, 2013, 09:59:26 PM
Ralph, and that would be our Calvin voter - must be an MIAA thing for the ODAC! ;D

I've been pumping the ODAC for years, but soured a bit after Guilford went south recently.  I probably have HSC too low at 19th - if I'd flip-flopped them and CNU I could have resolved that whole 3-way tie at 16th! 8-) 

(Of course, a 12th voter also would have done it - Charles?  Or even better - Algernon? [an ODAC poster])

I'd be honored if Algernon passes!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 30, 2013, 03:10:18 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 29, 2013, 09:00:52 PM

Who left Wheaton off altogether?  That was the biggest surprise to me.


Anyone?  Bueller?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 30, 2013, 05:47:43 PM
Simply for my own amusement, I like to compare my picks. 

POSTERS' POLL (games through January 27th):

1.  Rochester      271 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2)
2.  St. Thomas    262 (1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2,3,4,5)
3.  UWSP           243 (3,3,3,3,3,4,4,4,4,4,8)
4.  Whitworth      237 (2,2,2,3,3,3,4,4,5,6,15)
5.  WPI              199 (4,5,5,5,5,5,7,11,11,13,16)
6.  NCC              196 (3,5,7,7,7,8,8,11,11,11,12)
7.  Wooster         185 (6,7,7,7,7,8,10,10,11,11,14)
t8  Catholic         184 (4,6,6,6,7,7,11,12,12,14,15)
t8  Williams         184 (5,6,6,7,7,9,9,10,13,14,16)
10  IWU              174 (5,8,9,9,9,9,10,10,11,16,16)
11  Middlebury     168 (6,6,7,7,8,8,8,11,17,18,22)
12  UWW             141 (5,9,10,10,11,13,15,16,17,18,21)
13  St. Mary's       132 (9,12,12,13,13,13,13,14,15,17,23)
14  Amherst          111 (6,6,7,13,14,15,19,22,23,24,-)
15  Ramapo           110 (9,10,13,14,14,14,17,19,19,21,-)
t16 Chris Newport   107 (9,12,12,15,15,15,15,17,18,25,-)
t16 Hampden-S      107 (3,4,14,16,18,19,20,20,20,22,23)
t16 Wheaton          107 (10,12,12,14,16,16,18,18,18,19,-)
19  Calvin               88 (10,10,12,15,17,20,20,20,22,-,-)
20  RHIT                51 (13,16,17,18,21,22,25,25,-,-,-)
21  WashU              47 (14,17,18,19,20,21,-,-,-,-,-)
22  RIC                  45 (12,19,19,19,20,24,25,25,-,-,-)
23  Transy              43 (17,18,19,21,22,23,23,24,24,-,-)
24  Augie                40 (13,15,17,21,24,-,-,-,-,-,-)
25  UMHB                32 (19,20,21,22,23,23,23,25,-,-,-)

26  UW-Stout          25 (16,20,22,22,25)
27  St. Norbert         22 (16,20,21,25)
28  Randolph            13 (17,22)
29  A. Magnus           8 (18)
t30 Concordia TX       7 (21,24)
t30 OWU                  7 (23,24,24)
t30 Wesley               7 ( 21,24)
33  MIT                   5 (21)
t34 Cortland St.        4 (23,25)
t34 Stevens             4 (22)
36  Lynchburg           3 (23)
t37 Brandeis             2 (25,25)
t37 Centre               2 (24)
t37 Emory                2 (24)


It looks like I overvalued the CCIW.  It was hard for me to drop NCC too far, and in fact, I didn't drop them at all from my previous poll.  They lost two games on the road to ranked conference opponents.  I guess I just didn't see my next four teams, St. Pt., Whitworth, Wooster or WPI deserving to jump over NCC.  Point was the only one to play a ranked opponent, and that's why I jumped them over Whitworth, even though they didn't lose. 

I had Wheaton jump from #16 last week to #12 this week on their win against NCC.  I guess I value wins over ranked opponents over just wins.  Is that a fault, I don't know.  Same goes for, obviously, losing to ranked opponents.  I only dropped Williams two spots after their loss at Amherst, who, ironically, finally made it into MY poll for the first time.  I suppose that's why I kept Brandeis in the mix, losing @ Emory and then at @ #2 Rochester.  I saw no reason to drop Stout from #25, so I moved them up when I added Amherst and RIC. 

When figuring out teams close to each other, I did use SOS.  I guess that's why I still have Stout in there and Brandeis and why I'm not sold on the NESCAC teams. That would probably also explain why I have the CCIW teams so high, their high SOS.

And trust me, there are probably teams in spots where I couldn't tell you why I have them there!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 30, 2013, 06:19:46 PM
22 of my top 25 are in the overall 25 here, and none of my other three are outliers. Frankly, most anyone below my top 15 could be either ranked 16-25 or 26-50 depending on the mood, how they've recently played, etc.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 30, 2013, 06:21:38 PM
I've seen Brandeis in person, and I can attest that the Judges are a legit Top 25 team -- if Boston College transfer Gabriel Moten is healthy.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 30, 2013, 06:29:26 PM
My picks in bold.

POSTERS' POLL (games through January 27th):

1.  Rochester      271 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2)
2.  St. Thomas*  262 (1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2,3,4,5)
3.  UWSP           243 (3,3,3,3,3,4,4,4,4,4,8)
4.  Whitworth      237 (2,2,2,3,3,3,4,4,5,6,15)
5.  WPI*              199 (4,5,5,5,5,5,7,11,11,13,16)
6.  NCC              196 (3,5,7,7,7,8,8,11,11,11,12)
7.  Wooster         185 (6,7,7,7,7,8,10,10,11,11,14)
t8  Catholic         184 (4,6,6,6,7,7,11,12,12,14,15)
t8  Williams         184 (5,6,6,7,7,9,9,10,13,14,16)
10  IWU              174 (5,8,9,9,9,9,10,10,11,16,16)
11  Middlebury     168 (6,6,7,7,8,8,8,11,17,18,22)
12  UWW             141 (5,9,10,10,11,13,15,16,17,18,21)
13  St. Mary's       132 (9,12,12,13,13,13,13,14,15,17,23)
14  Amherst          111 (6,6,7,13,14,15,19,22,23,24,-)
15  Ramapo*           110 (9,10,13,14,14,14,17,19,19,21,-)
t16 Chris Newport   107 (9,12,12,15,15,15,15,17,18,25,-)
t16 Hampden-S      107 (3,4,14,16,18,19,20,20,20,22,23)
t16 Wheaton          107 (10,12,12,14,16,16,18,18,18,19,-)
19  Calvin               88 (10,10,12,15,17,20,20,20,22,-,-)
20  RHIT                51 (13,16,17,18,21,22,25,25,-,-,-)
21  WashU*              47 (14,17,18,19,20,21,-,-,-,-,-)
22  RIC                  45 (12,19,19,19,20,24,25,25,-,-,-)
23  Transy              43 (17,18,19,21,22,23,23,24,24,-,-)
24  Augie                40 (13,15,17,21,24,-,-,-,-,-,-)
25  UMHB                32 (19,20,21,22,23,23,23,25,-,-,-)

26  UW-Stout          25 (16,20,22,22,25)
27  St. Norbert         22 (16,20,21,25)
28  Randolph            13 (17,22)
29  A. Magnus           8 (18)
t30 Concordia TX       7 (21,24)
t30 OWU                  7 (23,24,24)
t30 Wesley               7 ( 21,24)
33  MIT                   5 (21)
t34 Cortland St.        4 (23,25)
t34 Stevens             4 (22)
36  Lynchburg           3 (23)
t37 Brandeis             2 (25,25)
t37 Centre               2 (24)
t37 Emory                2 (24)



I have put an asterisk by the votes where I am on a unique extreme position.

I could have flipped Whitworth and St Thomas and removed 2 of those asterisks, but I don't see much difference between those 2 teams anyway!  We may get to see them in the Elite 8!  Number one should always win every game while they in the top spot (unless they beat #2 in baseball 2 games out of 3 on a weekend!)

I am wondering if I have let Ramapo float too high.  The Roadrunners just keep winning.

I could not drop Wash U too much for their losses compared to the rest of the field and against the rest of the contenders in the mid-teens.  I think that they have played a tougher schedule to date.  I tend to cut the UAA teams some slack by late January.  Brandeis is on my watch list. 

I almost left OWU off the ballot, but I was not ready to put anyone else into the Top 25. Transy is on my watch list.  They host RHIT on Saturday.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 30, 2013, 07:23:33 PM
I shall unveil my ballot for the first time this season... and did I count 14 7th place votes out of 11 ballots?

1.  Rochester      271 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2)
2.  St. Thomas    262 (1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2,3,4,5)
3.  UWSP           243 (3,3,3,3,3,4,4,4,4,4,8)
4.  Whitworth      237 (2,2,2,3,3,3,4,4,5,6,15)
5.  WPI              199 (4,5,5,5,5,5,7,11,11,13,16)
6.  NCC              196 (3,5,7,7,7,8,8,11,11,11,12)
7.  Wooster         185 (6,7,7,7,7,8,10,10,11,11,14)
t8  Catholic         184 (4,6,6,6,7,7,11,12,12,14,15) I voted 8th...
t8  Williams         184 (5,6,6,7,7,9,9,10,13,14,16)
10  IWU              174 (5,8,9,9,9,9,10,10,11,16,16)
11  Middlebury     168 (6,6,7,7,8,8,8,11,17,18,22)
12  UWW             141 (5,9,10,10,11,13,15,16,17,18,21)
13  St. Mary's       132 (9,12,12,13,13,13,13,14,15,17,23)
14  Amherst          111 (6,6,7,13,14,15,19,22,23,24,-)
15  Ramapo           110 (9,10,13,14,14,14,17,19,19,21,-)
t16 Chris Newport   107 (9,12,12,15,15,15,15,17,18,25,-)
t16 Hampden-S      107 (3,4,14,16,18,19,20,20,20,22,23)
t16 Wheaton          107 (10,12,12,14,16,16,18,18,18,19,-)
19  Calvin               88 (10,10,12,15,17,20,20,20,22,-,-)
20  RHIT                51 (13,16,17,18,21,22,25,25,-,-,-)
21  WashU              47 (14,17,18,19,20,21,-,-,-,-,-)
22  RIC                  45 (12,19,19,19,20,24,25,25,-,-,-)
23  Transy              43 (17,18,19,21,22,23,23,24,24,-,-)
24  Augie                40 (13,15,17,21,24,-,-,-,-,-,-)
25  UMHB                32 (19,20,21,22,23,23,23,25,-,-,-)

26  UW-Stout          25 (16,20,22,22,25)
27  St. Norbert         22 (16,20,21,25)
28  Randolph            13 (17,22)
29  A. Magnus           8 (18)
t30 Concordia TX       7 (21,24)
t30 OWU                  7 (23,24,24)
t30 Wesley               7 ( 21,24)
33  MIT                   5 (21)
t34 Cortland St.        4 (23,25)
t34 Stevens             4 (22)
36  Lynchburg           3 (23)
t37 Brandeis             2 (25,25)
t37 Centre               2 (24)
t37 Emory                2 (24)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 30, 2013, 08:31:57 PM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 30, 2013, 07:23:33 PM
I shall unveil my ballot for the first time this season... and did I count 14 7th place votes out of 11 ballots?


Maybe it is the Heisenburg Principle of Uncertainty.  Regardless of what you thought you voted, it came up "7"!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 30, 2013, 08:38:59 PM

POSTERS' POLL (games through January 27th):

1.  Rochester      271 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2)
2.  St. Thomas    262 (1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2,3,4,5)
3.  UWSP           243 (3,3,3,3,3,4,4,4,4,4,8)
4.  Whitworth      237 (2,2,2,3,3,3,4,4,5,6,15)
5.  WPI*              199 (4,5,5,5,5,5,7,11,11,13,16)
6.  NCC              196 (3,5,7,7,7,8,8,11,11,11,12)
7.  Wooster         185 (6,7,7,7,7,8,10,10,11,11,14)
t8  Catholic         184 (4,6,6,6,7,7,11,12,12,14,15) I also voted them 8.
t8  Williams         184 (5,6,6,7,7,9,9,10,13,14,16)
10  IWU              174 (5,8,9,9,9,9,10,10,11,16,16)
11  Middlebury     168 (6,6,7,7,8,8,8,11,17,18,22)
12  UWW             141 (5,9,10,10,11,13,15,16,17,18,21)
13  St. Mary's       132 (9,12,12,13,13,13,13,14,15,17,23)
14  Amherst          111 (6,6,7,13,14,15,19,22,23,24,-)
15  Ramapo           110 (9,10,13,14,14,14,17,19,19,21,-)
t16 Chris Newport   107 (9,12,12,15,15,15,15,17,18,25,-)
t16 Hampden-S      107 (3,4,14,16,18,19,20,20,20,22,23)
t16 Wheaton          107 (10,12,12,14,16,16,18,18,18,19,-)
19  Calvin               88 (10,10,12,15,17,20,20,20,22,-,-)
20  RHIT                51 (13,16,17,18,21,22,25,25,-,-,-)
21  WashU              47 (14,17,18,19,20,21,-,-,-,-,-)
22  RIC                  45 (12,19,19,19,20,24,25,25,-,-,-)
23  Transy              43 (17,18,19,21,22,23,23,24,24,-,-)
24  Augie*                40 (13,15,17,21,24,-,-,-,-,-,-)
25  UMHB                32 (19,20,21,22,23,23,23,25,-,-,-)

26  UW-Stout          25 (16,20,22,22,25)
27  St. Norbert         22 (16,20,21,25)
28  Randolph            13 (17,22)
29  A. Magnus           8 (18)
t30 Concordia TX       7 (21,24)
t30 OWU                  7 (23,24,24)
t30 Wesley*               7 ( 21,24)
33  MIT                   5 (21)
t34 Cortland St.        4 (23,25)
t34 Stevens             4 (22)
36  Lynchburg           3 (23)
t37 Brandeis             2 (25,25)
t37 Centre*               2 (24)
t37 Emory                2 (24)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 30, 2013, 09:14:27 PM
While I typed the 8s in as 7s, I've now triple-checked the scoring, and that is correct (the original posting has been corrected).  If anyone else notices an error, PLEASE let me know.

I've never claimed perfection, but I do try for accuracy! ;D

Wooster was the other error - again score was correct, but specific votes were wrong.  FCGriz, it was worse than you thought; before corrections there were FIFTEEN #7 votes posted - that key seems to draw my fingers inexorably! :P
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 30, 2013, 10:48:14 PM
My picks in bold.
I did the asterisk thing like Ralph.
POSTERS' POLL (games through January 27th):

1.  Rochester      271 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2)
2.  St. Thomas    262 (1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2,3,4,5)
3.  UWSP           243 (3,3,3,3,3,4,4,4,4,4,8)
4.  Whitworth      237 (2,2,2,3,3,3,4,4,5,6,15)
5.  WPI              199 (4,5,5,5,5,5,7,11,11,13,16)
6.  NCC              196 (3,5,7,7,7,8,8,11,11,11,12)
7.  Wooster         185 (6,7,7,8,8,9,10,10,11,11,14)
t8  Catholic         184 (4,6,6,6,8,8,11,12,12,14,15)
t8.  Williams         184 (5,6,6,7,7,9,9,10,13,14,16)
10  IWU*              174 (5,8,9,9,9,9,10,10,11,16,16)
11  Middlebury     168 (6,6,7,7,8,8,8,11,17,18,22)
12  UWW             141 (5,9,10,10,11,13,15,16,17,18,21)
13  St. Mary's       132 (9,12,12,13,13,13,13,14,15,17,23)
14  Amherst          111 (6,6,7,13,14,15,19,22,23,24,-)
15  Ramapo           110 (9,10,13,14,14,14,17,19,19,21,-)
t16 Chris Newport   107 (9,12,12,15,15,15,15,17,18,25,-)
t16 Hampden-S*      107 (3,4,14,16,18,19,20,20,20,22,23)
t16 Wheaton          107 (10,12,12,14,16,16,18,18,18,19,-)
19  Calvin               88 (10,10,12,15,17,20,20,20,22,-,-)
20  RHIT                51 (13,16,17,18,21,22,25,25,-,-,-)
21  WashU              47 (14,17,18,19,20,21,-,-,-,-,-)
22  RIC                  45 (12,19,19,19,20,24,25,25,-,-,-)
23  Transy              43 (17,18,19,21,22,23,23,24,24,-,-)
24  Augie                40 (13,15,17,21,24,-,-,-,-,-,-)
25  UMHB                32 (19,20,21,22,23,23,23,25,-,-,-)

26  UW-Stout          25 (16,20,22,22,25)
27  St. Norbert         22 (16,20,21,25)
28  Randolph            13 (17,22)
29  A. Magnus           8 (18)
t30 Concordia TX       7 (21,24)
t30 OWU                  7 (23,24,24)
t30 Wesley               7 ( 21,24)
33  MIT                   5 (21)
t34 Cortland St.        4 (23,25)
t34 Stevens             4 (22)
36  Lynchburg           3 (23)
t37 Brandeis             2 (25,25)
t37 Centre               2 (24)
t37 Emory                2 (24)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 31, 2013, 06:34:23 PM
Charles, I sent you a PM yesterday inviting you to join the voting - did you get it?

Algernon, I sent you a PM a while back with the same invitation.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 31, 2013, 06:45:55 PM
Who joined me in voting for Cortland?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 02, 2013, 11:53:34 PM
It's too late this season, but how do you become part of this "poster's poll??"
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 03, 2013, 12:12:00 AM
Quote from: 7express on February 02, 2013, 11:53:34 PM
It's too late this season, but how do you become part of this "poster's poll??"

Send a $10,000 check to P.O. Box 1970, Ypsilanti MI 48198. ;D  Actually:

Extremely simple - just PM me a ballot.

As long as you don't violate the (minimal) rules, you're in.  (Rules explained several times in the previous 192 pages! ;)  Basically, as long as you submit a ballot before Tuesday evening, and don't submit one that seems TOO homerish - a rule I maintain but have never had to evoke in 7 years - you're in.)

It is NOT too late to join this season - this week we will probably welcome two (other) new posters.  Based on what I've seen of your posts and picks, I'd encourage you to join us.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 03, 2013, 12:34:07 AM
7 express,
You should do it, you'd fit right in. And Mr. Ypsi might finally be able to set a new Posters' Poll record for number of ballots cast. 8-) He's been on the verge for oh, about 3 years, but can never get over the hump. Instead of getting all giddy over the super bowl he'd be in a tither over his super poll. ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 03, 2013, 12:53:35 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 03, 2013, 12:12:00 AM
Quote from: 7express on February 02, 2013, 11:53:34 PM
It's too late this season, but how do you become part of this "poster's poll??"

Send a $10,000 check to P.O. Box 1970, Ypsilanti MI 48198. ;D  Actually:

Extremely simple - just PM me a ballot.

As long as you don't violate the (minimal) rules, you're in.  (Rules explained several times in the previous 192 pages! ;)  Basically, as long as you submit a ballot before Tuesday evening, and don't submit one that seems TOO homerish - a rule I maintain but have never had to evoke in 7 years - you're in.)

It is NOT too late to join this season - this week we will probably welcome two (other) new posters.  Based on what I've seen of your posts and picks, I'd encourage you to join us.

So basically me voting Western Connecticut #1 would automatically disqualify me no matter who I had for the other 24??
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 03, 2013, 01:17:29 AM
Quote from: 7express on February 03, 2013, 12:53:35 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 03, 2013, 12:12:00 AM
Quote from: 7express on February 02, 2013, 11:53:34 PM
It's too late this season, but how do you become part of this "poster's poll??"

Send a $10,000 check to P.O. Box 1970, Ypsilanti MI 48198. ;D  Actually:

Extremely simple - just PM me a ballot.

As long as you don't violate the (minimal) rules, you're in.  (Rules explained several times in the previous 192 pages! ;)  Basically, as long as you submit a ballot before Tuesday evening, and don't submit one that seems TOO homerish - a rule I maintain but have never had to evoke in 7 years - you're in.)

It is NOT too late to join this season - this week we will probably welcome two (other) new posters.  Based on what I've seen of your posts and picks, I'd encourage you to join us.

So basically me voting Western Connecticut #1 would automatically disqualify me no matter who I had for the other 24??

The last 3 years, maybe not; this year, at 5-15, YES! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 03, 2013, 01:32:15 AM
This week might take me awhile!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 03, 2013, 01:48:30 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 03, 2013, 01:17:29 AM
The last 3 years, maybe not; this year, at 5-15, YES! ;D

We are on a 1 game winning streak however which is more then like a 3rd of the poll can say now after all the carnage that happened yesterday  ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 03, 2013, 11:48:29 AM
Quote from: 7express on February 03, 2013, 01:48:30 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 03, 2013, 01:17:29 AM
The last 3 years, maybe not; this year, at 5-15, YES! ;D

We are on a 1 game winning streak however which is more then like a 3rd of the poll can say now after all the carnage that happened yesterday  ;D
If you want that 1-game winning streak to become a 2-game winning streak, then do not give Western Connecticut a #1 vote!   :)

In fact, most of us voters see the teams that we think are hot fall in the most unusual games to the most unusual foes!

RHIT over Transy?  Yeah, the game makes sense.

Float RHIT past some of this week's carnage
Keep a close eye on Transy, at least on your watch list.
Re-assess next Sunday after more carnage!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 03, 2013, 03:26:40 PM
I'll send my first ballot of my posting career in at some point today
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 03, 2013, 04:09:29 PM
Just sent mine in: 1-3 were very easy (I'll let you decide, once Mr Y posts the results, I'll post mine).  21-25 I pretty much had no idea.  I had about 10 teams for those 5 slots, and not only were selecting 5 difficult, placing them in order was even more challenging.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 03, 2013, 06:20:14 PM
Mine is in.  Thanks Darryl.  +1!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 03, 2013, 08:47:10 PM
Power outage here in Sheboygan...I mean, New Orleans. I won't have mine in until tomorrow night, at the earliest.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 03, 2013, 11:13:31 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 03, 2013, 08:47:10 PM
Power outage here in Sheboygan...I mean, New Orleans. I won't have mine in until tomorrow night, at the earliest.

I, too, was delayed by the Super Bowl, though it only took me about 10 minutes once the refs had finished screwing the Niners (I had already mostly figured out who was who before the game started).  What a comeback!  But that non-call on blatant pass interference in the end zone with 1:50 left was the killer - should have been SF 1st and goal at the one! >:(
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 03, 2013, 11:35:35 PM
The ball was thrown out of bounds anyways.  And just be thankful that was even a game.  If the intern at the superdome pays the electric bill, the Ravens win that game by 30.  Way to close for comfort for me.  Yes, I am a Ravens fan.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 03, 2013, 11:49:55 PM
Quote from: 7express on February 03, 2013, 11:35:35 PM
The ball was thrown out of bounds anyways.  And just be thankful that was even a game.  If the intern at the superdome pays the electric bill, the Ravens win that game by 30.  Way to close for comfort for me.  Yes, I am a Ravens fan.

My younger son, who is not a Ravens fan but 'hates' the Ravens less than he 'hates' the Niners, thought there should be no call because the Niner receiver pushed off - I contended that was irrelevant because the defender held AFTER the push-off, but conceded it might have been an OK no call because the pass was uncatchable.  But I remain unconvinced - it would have been a GREAT play to both catch it and come down inbounds, but I think it was possible.  And Ravens fan or not, that IS a great comeback, scoring 17 points in 4:10!

Now back to REAL sports!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 04, 2013, 12:11:24 AM
I'm with your son.  I hate the Ravens less than I hate the 49ers, partly because I'm a Packers fan, I guess.  Anyway, I suppose I wouldn't have been completely upset had they called pass interference on that play.  Part of me feels like it was uncatchable as well.  I'm just glad the 49ers didn't win because we'd have to talk about "Kaepernicking" for a year.  Plus, Ray Lewis gets to ride off in the sunset as a champion, whether or not he was involved in that killing years ago.  Like him or hate him because of that, he's a great football player.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 04, 2013, 03:56:23 AM
My poll is in.  Earlier this week than usual. Another plus k for Darryl.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 04, 2013, 09:35:44 AM

Mine's in.  Not a lot of changes.  I dropped UWSP a bit, but mostly just one or two places moved.

I dropped Centre from my list and added Brandeis.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 04, 2013, 01:00:21 PM
Mine is in.

Lots of movement.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 04, 2013, 11:42:59 PM
I submitted my poll yesterday, but I think that I need to do some work on next week's.  There has been too much action that I may not have considered accurately.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2013, 04:23:10 PM
Haven't received ballots yet from sac, John Gleich, or algernon.  I'd like to post by around 8 or so (EST), but will hold off if anyone WILL submit a ballot later in the evening.

A few slots are very tightly contested (including 7th, 190; 8th, 188; and 9th, 187) so your ballot WILL make a difference even high up the pecking order!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 05, 2013, 06:02:09 PM
Really looking forward to some clarity between Williams, Middlebury and Amherst this week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 05, 2013, 07:00:34 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2013, 04:23:10 PM
Haven't received ballots yet from sac, John Gleich, or algernon.  I'd like to post by around 8 or so (EST), but will hold off if anyone WILL submit a ballot later in the evening.

A few slots are very tightly contested (including 7th, 190; 8th, 188; and 9th, 187) so your ballot WILL make a difference even high up the pecking order!

In the 190th spot I voted for Alma. Massey has then a bit higher at #186 but I just couldn't move them up with their 8-13 record. ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2013, 07:59:24 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2013, 04:23:10 PM
Haven't received ballots yet from sac, John Gleich, or algernon.  I'd like to post by around 8 or so (EST), but will hold off if anyone WILL submit a ballot later in the evening.

A few slots are very tightly contested (including 7th, 190; 8th, 188; and 9th, 187) so your ballot WILL make a difference even high up the pecking order!

As sac already indicated by modifying my post (HoFers can do that!  jeez, am I jealous! ;)), I've now gotten his ballot.  John Gleich or algernon - any requests to keep the polls open?

If I don't hear anything in the next half hour, I'll start typing.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 05, 2013, 08:56:09 PM
I texted John awhile ago. He said to just count mine twice. I thought he was joking.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2013, 09:57:55 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 05, 2013, 08:56:09 PM
I texted John awhile ago. He said to just count mine twice. I thought he was joking.

Yes, I will take that as a joke.  Since he has an infant/toddler (can't remember exact status) and had warned me he might be a part-time voter, he is excused.  I'm more disappointed in algernon who said he would vote (and I've been begging for ODAC voters for years, and he looks like a good one), but no word.  Anyway, we did set a season high with 12 voters, so here goes:

2-4-13 Posters' Poll:

1.  St. Thomas   296 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,3)
2.  Rochester     266 (1,1,2,2,2,3,3,4,4,5,5,14)
3.  Whitworth     265 (2,2,2,2,2,3,3,3,3,4,7,14)
4.  NCC             239 (2,3,4,5,6,6,6,6,8,8,9,10)
5.  WPI             226 (1,3,3,4,4,4,6,11,11,11,13,15)
6.  IWU             217 (4,5,5,6,7,7,8,8,8,8,14,15)
7.  Catholic        212 (4,5,5,6,6,7,9,9,9,12,13,15)
8.  Williams        208 (5,5,5,6,7,7,8,10,11,12,13,15)
9.  UWSP          202 (3,7,7,8,8,8,9,11,12,12,12,13)
10  Midd           198 (4,5,6,6,6,7,8,10,12,16,17,17)
11  UWW          164 (4,9,9,10,11,11,13,15,16,16,16,18)
12  St. Mary's    163 (7,9,9,10,12,12,13,13,14,14,15,21)
13  Amherst       155 (5,7,7,9,11,11,12,17,18,21,21,22)
14  Wooster       154 (4,10,11,11,11,12,13,14,14,17,19,22)
15  Hampden-S   140 (2,3,10,14,16,16,16,17,17,20,20,21)
16  Ramapo        134 (7,10,10,14,14,14,14,16,17,17,18,-)
17  Calvin          123 (9,9,10,13,15,15,16,18,18,18,22,-)
18  Wheaton      83 (12,13,15,17,18,18,19,20,23,24,24,-)
19  RHIT            80 (10,15,15,16,20,21,21,22,23,23,23,22)
20  WashU         72 (13,15,16,17,18,19,20,22,23,25,-,-)
21  C Newport    63 (16,17,18,18,19,19,20,20,24,-,-,-)
22  UMHB           55 (12,19,19,20,21,21,22,23,24,24.-.-)
23  UW-Stout     37 (10,20,21,22,23,23,-,-,-,-,-,-)
24  Augustana     32 (13,19,19,21,-,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)
25  RIC              24 (18,19,19,25,25,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)

26  Transy          21 (17,20,24,24,25,25)
27  MIT             20 (19,21,21,23)
28  Cortland St   17 (21,22,22,23,25)
29  Stevens        10 (20,24,25,25)
30  OWU             8 (22,24,25.25)
31  Brandeis        5 24,24,25)
t32 Albright         4 (22)
t32 St. Norbert    4 (22)
t34 Randolph       3 (23)
t34 Wesley          3 (23)
36  Juniata          1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 05, 2013, 10:05:52 PM
How do you know a priest has gained weight recently?

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2013, 09:57:55 PM

t32 Albtight         4 (22)

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 05, 2013, 10:08:59 PM
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1-media-cdn.foolz.us%2Fffuuka%2Fboard%2Fsp%2Fimage%2F1347%2F48%2F1347486601569.jpg&hash=bcb4b6b366fd7e81b9f8ae1047c011c0b0ea872a)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 05, 2013, 10:13:39 PM
Seriously though, someone didn't vote for Calvin? Someone that thinks Ramapo is a Top 18 team doesn't see Calvin as a Top 25 team?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2013, 10:16:16 PM
While I'm always delighted to see respect for the CCIW (though I am almost never the highest voter for any of the teams; my IWU vote was #7), I'm totally mystified by the love affair many of you have for NCC.  EIGHT of you are still ranking NCC higher than IWU!  Are you not aware that (with just 4 games remaining in conference) IWU is THREE games ahead of NCC (10-0 vs. 7-3), and beat them head-to-head (In Bloomington; if I'm in contention in CCIW pickems, even I will probably pick NCC in the rematch in Naperville)??  At one point, I too had NCC ranked #1 in the country - that was a while ago.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2013, 10:18:44 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 05, 2013, 10:05:52 PM
How do you know a priest has gained weight recently?

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2013, 09:57:55 PM

t32 Albtight         4 (22)


Have to agree with you and Greg - that was a pretty funny typo! :-[

Out of respect for Albright, I've now corrected the original post.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 05, 2013, 10:26:15 PM
John has twin boys, about 4 or 5 years old. He also works and goes to graduate school. All lame excuses if you ask me!  ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 05, 2013, 10:46:08 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 05, 2013, 10:13:39 PM
Seriously though, someone didn't vote for Calvin? Someone that thinks Ramapo is a Top 18 team doesn't see Calvin as a Top 25 team?

That's me.  MIAA is way, way bad this year (at least my perception) and Calvin didn't do so hot with their non-con schedule.  Although, I am running out of other options, so they could sneak back in there before all is said and done.

For what it's worth, I'm treating WPI the same way - they just happen to have won all their games so far.  I'm definitely one of the double digit voters for them - and really worried I've put them too high each week).

I keep being baffled that someone isn't voting for Wheaton (although it's more understandable after the loss this week) - I imagine I'm embodying the same frustration for you.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 05, 2013, 10:49:50 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2013, 10:16:16 PM
While I'm always delighted to see respect for the CCIW (though I am almost never the highest voter for any of the teams; my IWU vote was #7), I'm totally mystified by the love affair many of you have for NCC.  EIGHT of you are still ranking NCC higher than IWU!  Are you not aware that (with just 4 games remaining in conference) IWU is THREE games ahead of NCC (10-0 vs. 7-3), and beat them head-to-head (In Bloomington; if I'm in contention in CCIW pickems, even I will probably pick NCC in the rematch in Naperville)??  At one point, I too had NCC ranked #1 in the country - that was a while ago.

They lost two difficult, back to back road games by single digits while they were banged up.  I like the team as constituted and I think, when healthy, they're among the best in the country.  We are talking about an 18-3 squad in one of the best conferences.  In retrospect I should have had IWU a little higher.  Perhaps they're both top 5 teams.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 05, 2013, 10:53:06 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 05, 2013, 10:49:50 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2013, 10:16:16 PM
While I'm always delighted to see respect for the CCIW (though I am almost never the highest voter for any of the teams; my IWU vote was #7), I'm totally mystified by the love affair many of you have for NCC.  EIGHT of you are still ranking NCC higher than IWU!  Are you not aware that (with just 4 games remaining in conference) IWU is THREE games ahead of NCC (10-0 vs. 7-3), and beat them head-to-head (In Bloomington; if I'm in contention in CCIW pickems, even I will probably pick NCC in the rematch in Naperville)??  At one point, I too had NCC ranked #1 in the country - that was a while ago.

They lost two difficult, back to back road games by single digits while they were banged up.  I like the team as constituted and I think, when healthy, they're among the best in the country.  We are talking about an 18-3 squad in one of the best conferences.  In retrospect I should have had IWU a little higher.  Perhaps they're both top 5 teams.

NCC lost to Wheaton and Carthage (and IWU). Calvin lost to Wheaton and Carthage.

Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 05, 2013, 10:46:08 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 05, 2013, 10:13:39 PM
Seriously though, someone didn't vote for Calvin? Someone that thinks Ramapo is a Top 18 team doesn't see Calvin as a Top 25 team?

That's me.  MIAA is way, way bad this year (at least my perception) and Calvin didn't do so hot with their non-con schedule.  Although, I am running out of other options, so they could sneak back in there before all is said and done.

For what it's worth, I'm treating WPI the same way - they just happen to have won all their games so far.  I'm definitely one of the double digit voters for them - and really worried I've put them too high each week).

I keep being baffled that someone isn't voting for Wheaton (although it's more understandable after the loss this week) - I imagine I'm embodying the same frustration for you.

They're 10-0 in the MIAA (averaging a 15 point win), and the NJAC is still likely a worse conference.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 05, 2013, 10:55:53 PM
I am Captain Outlier after all, even if I've been a bit dormant of late.

2-4-13 Posters' Poll:

1.  St. Thomas*   296 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,3)
2.  Rochester     266 (1,1,2,2,2,3,3,4,4,5,5,14)
3.  Whitworth     265 (2,2,2,2,2,3,3,3,3,4,7,14)
4.  NCC             239 (2,3,4,5,6,6,6,6,8,8,9,10)
5.  WPI*             226 (1,3,3,4,4,4,6,11,11,11,13,15)
6.  IWU             217 (4,5,5,6,7,7,8,8,8,8,14,15)
7.  Catholic        212 (4,5,5,6,6,7,9,9,9,12,13,15)
8.  Williams *       208 (5,5,5,6,7,7,8,10,11,12,13,15)
9.  UWSP          202 (3,7,7,8,8,8,9,11,12,12,12,13)
10  Midd           198 (4,5,6,6,6,7,8,10,12,16,17,17)
11  UWW          164 (4,9,9,10,11,11,13,15,16,16,16,18)
12  St. Mary's    163 (7,9,9,10,12,12,13,13,14,14,15,21)
13  Amherst       155 (5,7,7,9,11,11,12,17,18,21,21,22)
14  Wooster       154 (4,10,11,11,11,12,13,14,14,17,19,22)
15  Hampden-S   140 (2,3,10,14,16,16,16,17,17,20,20,21)
16  Ramapo        134 (7,10,10,14,14,14,14,16,17,17,18,-)
17  Calvin*          123 (9,9,10,13,15,15,16,18,18,18,22,-)
18  Wheaton*      83 (12,13,15,17,18,18,19,20,23,24,24,-)
19  RHIT            80 (10,15,15,16,20,21,21,22,23,23,23,22)
20  WashU*         72 (13,15,15,16,17,18,19,20,23,25,-,-)
21  C Newport    63 (16,17,18,18,19,19,20,20,24,-,-,-)
22  UMHB           55 (12,19,19,20,21,21,22,23,24,24.-.-)
23  UW-Stout     37 (10,20,21,22,23,23,-,-,-,-,-,-)
24  Augustana*     32 (13,19,19,21,-,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)
25  RIC*              24 (18,19,19,25,25,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)

26  Transy          21 (17,20,24,24,25,25)
27  MIT             20 (19,21,21,23)
28  Cortland St   17 (21,22,22,23,25)
29  Stevens        10 (20,24,25,25)
30  OWU             8 (22,24,25.25)
31  Brandeis*        5 (24,24,25)
t32 Albright         4 (22)
t32 St. Norbert    4 (22)
t34 Randolph       3 (23)
t34 Wesley*          3 (23)
36  Juniata          1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2013, 10:57:21 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2013, 10:18:44 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 05, 2013, 10:05:52 PM
How do you know a priest has gained weight recently?

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2013, 09:57:55 PM

t32 Albtight         4 (22)


Have to agree with you and Greg - that was a pretty funny typo! :-[

Out of respect for Albright, I've now corrected the original post.

As a (retired) professor, I greatly appreciated spell-check.  Before the misspellings were often just gibberish.  With spell-check, they would be real words, but sometimes hilariously wrong words.  Two of my favorite examples:

"... women and their male contraband."  (presumably meant counterparts)  I wrote on the paper: it has been my lifelong desire to be Sophia Loren's contraband (thus showing my age :P).

"... upon reaching adulthood, juvenile records are atomically expunged."  (presumably meant automatically)  I responded: OMG, isn't that drastic?!  Have they never heard of paper-shredders?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 05, 2013, 10:57:44 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 05, 2013, 10:53:06 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 05, 2013, 10:49:50 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2013, 10:16:16 PM
While I'm always delighted to see respect for the CCIW (though I am almost never the highest voter for any of the teams; my IWU vote was #7), I'm totally mystified by the love affair many of you have for NCC.  EIGHT of you are still ranking NCC higher than IWU!  Are you not aware that (with just 4 games remaining in conference) IWU is THREE games ahead of NCC (10-0 vs. 7-3), and beat them head-to-head (In Bloomington; if I'm in contention in CCIW pickems, even I will probably pick NCC in the rematch in Naperville)??  At one point, I too had NCC ranked #1 in the country - that was a while ago.

They lost two difficult, back to back road games by single digits while they were banged up.  I like the team as constituted and I think, when healthy, they're among the best in the country.  We are talking about an 18-3 squad in one of the best conferences.  In retrospect I should have had IWU a little higher.  Perhaps they're both top 5 teams.

NCC lost to Wheaton and Carthage (and IWU). Calvin lost to Wheaton and Carthage.

Calvin played no one else of note.  If you don't have at least one win over a moderately good team, it's hard for me to believe in you.  Usually it works out ok because both Hope and Calvin are decent.  This year Hope is just not that good.  Adrian seemed like they'd be alright early on, but it never panned out.  Maybe Calvin is a Top 25 team - they're just going to have to prove it to me in the tournament.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2013, 11:27:43 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 05, 2013, 10:57:44 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 05, 2013, 10:53:06 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 05, 2013, 10:49:50 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2013, 10:16:16 PM
While I'm always delighted to see respect for the CCIW (though I am almost never the highest voter for any of the teams; my IWU vote was #7), I'm totally mystified by the love affair many of you have for NCC.  EIGHT of you are still ranking NCC higher than IWU!  Are you not aware that (with just 4 games remaining in conference) IWU is THREE games ahead of NCC (10-0 vs. 7-3), and beat them head-to-head (In Bloomington; if I'm in contention in CCIW pickems, even I will probably pick NCC in the rematch in Naperville)??  At one point, I too had NCC ranked #1 in the country - that was a while ago.

They lost two difficult, back to back road games by single digits while they were banged up.  I like the team as constituted and I think, when healthy, they're among the best in the country.  We are talking about an 18-3 squad in one of the best conferences.  In retrospect I should have had IWU a little higher.  Perhaps they're both top 5 teams.

NCC lost to Wheaton and Carthage (and IWU). Calvin lost to Wheaton and Carthage.

Calvin played no one else of note.  If you don't have at least one win over a moderately good team, it's hard for me to believe in you.  Usually it works out ok because both Hope and Calvin are decent.  This year Hope is just not that good.  Adrian seemed like they'd be alright early on, but it never panned out.  Maybe Calvin is a Top 25 team - they're just going to have to prove it to me in the tournament.

I was preparing to post to defend Calvin's schedule, then checked their opponents' records.  They have non-d3 wins over Grace Bible, Aquinas, and Cornerstone - all are frequently tough, and I thought Grace was really good this year - this year I was wrong on all three.  They destroyed Wabash, who just beat Wooster - then I saw just how great an upset that was, as that was Wabash's SEVENTH win all season.  KS, I have Calvin at 13 and feel good about it, but you're on your own in justifying their status!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 05, 2013, 11:34:23 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 05, 2013, 10:46:08 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 05, 2013, 10:13:39 PM
Seriously though, someone didn't vote for Calvin? Someone that thinks Ramapo is a Top 18 team doesn't see Calvin as a Top 25 team?

That's me. MIAA is way, way bad this year (at least my perception) and Calvin didn't do so hot with their non-con schedule.  Although, I am running out of other options, so they could sneak back in there before all is said and done.

That's just not even accurate.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 05, 2013, 11:42:39 PM
Quote from: sac on February 05, 2013, 11:34:23 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 05, 2013, 10:46:08 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 05, 2013, 10:13:39 PM
Seriously though, someone didn't vote for Calvin? Someone that thinks Ramapo is a Top 18 team doesn't see Calvin as a Top 25 team?

That's me. MIAA is way, way bad this year (at least my perception) and Calvin didn't do so hot with their non-con schedule.  Although, I am running out of other options, so they could sneak back in there before all is said and done.

That's just not even accurate.

Massey has the MIAA at #11. One ahead of NCAC and two ahead of NESCAC.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 05, 2013, 11:52:20 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 05, 2013, 10:57:44 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 05, 2013, 10:53:06 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 05, 2013, 10:49:50 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2013, 10:16:16 PM
While I'm always delighted to see respect for the CCIW (though I am almost never the highest voter for any of the teams; my IWU vote was #7), I'm totally mystified by the love affair many of you have for NCC.  EIGHT of you are still ranking NCC higher than IWU!  Are you not aware that (with just 4 games remaining in conference) IWU is THREE games ahead of NCC (10-0 vs. 7-3), and beat them head-to-head (In Bloomington; if I'm in contention in CCIW pickems, even I will probably pick NCC in the rematch in Naperville)??  At one point, I too had NCC ranked #1 in the country - that was a while ago.

They lost two difficult, back to back road games by single digits while they were banged up.  I like the team as constituted and I think, when healthy, they're among the best in the country.  We are talking about an 18-3 squad in one of the best conferences.  In retrospect I should have had IWU a little higher.  Perhaps they're both top 5 teams.

NCC lost to Wheaton and Carthage (and IWU). Calvin lost to Wheaton and Carthage.

Calvin played no one else of note.  If you don't have at least one win over a moderately good team, it's hard for me to believe in you.  Usually it works out ok because both Hope and Calvin are decent.  This year Hope is just not that good.  Adrian seemed like they'd be alright early on, but it never panned out.  Maybe Calvin is a Top 25 team - they're just going to have to prove it to me in the tournament.

I guess I'm just trying to figure out what Calvin hasn't proven that teams like Catholic, Ramapo, and Wesley have.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 06, 2013, 12:14:29 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 05, 2013, 10:13:39 PM
Seriously though, someone didn't vote for Calvin? Someone that thinks Ramapo is a Top 18 team doesn't see Calvin as a Top 25 team?

How do you know that the person that sees Ramapo as a Top 18 team is the person that didn't vote for Calvin? ???

Edit:
I posted this question while I was reading the previous page. I see now that Hoops Fan was the voter that passed on Calvin, but also wasn't the voter that placed Ramapo 18th, so obviously it wasn't the same person. Just wondered if KnightSlappy had some kind of mental telepathy to make that statement, but I guess he doesn't. ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 06, 2013, 12:24:48 AM
Quote from: magicman on February 06, 2013, 12:14:29 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 05, 2013, 10:13:39 PM
Seriously though, someone didn't vote for Calvin? Someone that thinks Ramapo is a Top 18 team doesn't see Calvin as a Top 25 team?

How do you know that the person that sees Ramapo as a Top 18 team is the person that didn't vote for Calvin? ???

Edit:
I posted this question while I was reading the previous page. I see now that Hoops Fan was the voter that passed on Calvin, but also wasn't the voter that placed Ramapo 18th, so obviously it wasn't the same person. Just wondered if KnightSlappy had some kind of mental telepathy to make that statement, but I guess he doesn't. ;D

It so happens that I know the one person that didn't vote them top eighteen.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 06, 2013, 12:44:57 AM
Here's my poll:

2-4-13 Posters' Poll:

1.  St. Thomas   296 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,3)
2.  Rochester     266 (1,1,2,2,2,3,3,4,4,5,5,14)
3.  Whitworth     265 (2,2,2,2,2,3,3,3,3,4,7,14)
4.  NCC             239 (2,3,4,5,6,6,6,6,8,8,9,10)
5.  WPI             226 (1,3,3,4,4,4,6,11,11,11,13,15)
6.  IWU*             217 (4,5,5,6,7,7,8,8,8,8,14,15)
7.  Catholic        212 (4,5,5,6,6,7,9,9,9,12,13,15)
8.  Williams        208 (5,5,5,6,7,7,8,10,11,12,13,15)
9.  UWSP          202 (3,7,7,8,8,8,9,11,12,12,12,13)
10  Midd           198 (4,5,6,6,6,7,8,10,12,16,17,17)
11  UWW          164 (4,9,9,10,11,11,13,15,16,16,16,18)
12  St. Mary's    163 (7,9,9,10,12,12,13,13,14,14,15,21)
13  Amherst       155 (5,7,7,9,11,11,12,17,18,21,21,22)
14  Wooster       154 (4,10,11,11,11,12,13,14,14,17,19,22)
15  Hampden-S*   140 (2,3,10,14,16,16,16,17,17,20,20,21)
16  Ramapo        134 (7,10,10,14,14,14,14,16,17,17,18,-)
17  Calvin          123 (9,9,10,13,15,15,16,18,18,18,22,-)
18  Wheaton      83 (12,13,15,17,18,18,19,20,23,24,24,-)
19  RHIT            80 (10,15,15,16,20,21,21,22,23,23,23,22)
20  WashU         72 (13,15,15,16,17,18,19,20,23,25,-,-)
21  C Newport    63 (16,17,18,18,19,19,20,20,24,-,-,-)
22  UMHB           55 (12,19,19,20,21,21,22,23,24,24.-.-)
23  UW-Stout     37 (10,20,21,22,23,23,-,-,-,-,-,-)
24  Augustana     32 (13,19,19,21,-,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)
25  RIC              24 (18,19,19,25,25,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)

26  Transy          21 (17,20,24,24,25,25)
27  MIT             20 (19,21,21,23)
28  Cortland St   17 (21,22,22,23,25)
29  Stevens        10 (20,24,25,25)
30  OWU             8 (22,24,25.25)
31  Brandeis        5 24,24,25)
t32 Albright         4 (22)
t32 St. Norbert    4 (22)
t34 Randolph       3 (23)
t34 Wesley          3 (23)
36  Juniata          1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 06, 2013, 01:28:28 AM

I haven't posted my poll yet this year:

2-4-13 Posters' Poll:

1.  St. Thomas   296 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,3)
2.  Rochester     266 (1,1,2,2,2,3,3,4,4,5,5,14)
3.  Whitworth     265 (2,2,2,2,2,3,3,3,3,4,7,14)
4.  NCC*             239 (2,3,4,5,6,6,6,6,8,8,9,10)
5.  WPI             226 (1,3,3,4,4,4,6,11,11,11,13,15)
6.  IWU             217 (4,5,5,6,7,7,8,8,8,8,14,15)
7.  Catholic        212 (4,5,5,6,6,7,9,9,9,12,13,15)
8.  Williams        208 (5,5,5,6,7,7,8,10,11,12,13,15)
9.  UWSP          202 (3,7,7,8,8,8,9,11,12,12,12,13)
10  Midd           198 (4,5,6,6,6,7,8,10,12,16,17,17)
11  UWW          164 (4,9,9,10,11,11,13,15,16,16,16,18)
12  St. Mary's    163 (7,9,9,10,12,12,13,13,14,14,15,21)
13  Amherst*      155 (5,7,7,9,11,11,12,17,18,21,21,22)
14  Wooster       154 (4,10,11,11,11,12,13,14,14,17,19,22)
15  Hampden-S   140 (2,3,10,14,16,16,16,17,17,20,20,21)
16  Ramapo        134 (7,10,10,14,14,14,14,16,17,17,18,-)
17  Calvin          123 (9,9,10,13,15,15,16,18,18,18,22,-)
18  Wheaton      83 (12,13,15,17,18,18,19,20,23,24,24,-)
19  RHIT            80 (10,15,15,16,20,21,21,22,23,23,23,22)
20  WashU         72 (13,15,15,16,17,18,19,20,23,25,-,-)
21  C Newport    63 (16,17,18,18,19,19,20,20,24,-,-,-)
22  UMHB           55 (12,19,19,20,21,21,22,23,24,24.-.-)
23  UW-Stout     37 (10,20,21,22,23,23,-,-,-,-,-,-)
24  Augustana     32 (13,19,19,21,-,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)
25  RIC*              24 (18,19,19,25,25,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)

26  Transy          21 (17,20,24,24,25,25)
27  MIT             20 (19,21,21,23)
28  Cortland St   17 (21,22,22,23,25)
29  Stevens        10 (20,24,25,25)
30  OWU             8 (22,24,25.25)
31  Brandeis        5 24,24,25)
t32 Albright         4 (22)
t32 St. Norbert    4 (22)
t34 Randolph       3 (23)
t34 Wesley          3 (23)
36  Juniata          1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 06, 2013, 01:38:31 AM
2-4-13 Posters' Poll:

1.  St. Thomas   296 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,3)
2.  Rochester     266 (1,1,2,2,2,3,3,4,4,5,5,14)
3.  Whitworth     265 (2,2,2,2,2,3,3,3,3,4,7,14)
4.  NCC             239 (2,3,4,5,6,6,6,6,8,8,9,10)
5.  WPI             226 (1,3,3,4,4,4,6,11,11,11,13,15)
6.  IWU             217 (4,5,5,6,7,7,8,8,8,8,14,15)
7.  Catholic        212 (4,5,5,6,6,7,9,9,9,12,13,15)
8.  Williams        208 (5,5,5,6,7,7,8,10,11,12,13,15)
9.  UWSP          202 (3,7,7,8,8,8,9,11,12,12,12,13)
10  Midd           198 (4,5,6,6,6,7,8,10,12,16,17,17)
11  UWW          164 (4,9,9,10,11,11,13,15,16,16,16,18)
12  St. Mary's    163 (7,9,9,10,12,12,13,13,14,14,15,21)
13  Amherst       155 (5,7,7,9,11,11,12,17,18,21,21,22)
14  Wooster       154 (4,10,11,11,11,12,13,14,14,17,19,22)
15  Hampden-S   140 (2,3,10,14,16,16,16,17,17,20,20,21)
16  Ramapo        134 (7,10,10,14,14,14,14,16,17,17,18,-)
17  Calvin          123 (9,9,10,13,15,15,16,18,18,18,22,-)
18  Wheaton      83 (12,13,15,17,18,18,19,20,23,24,24,-)
19  RHIT            80 (10,15,15,16,20,21,21,22,23,23,23,22)
20  WashU         72 (13,15,15,16,17,18,19,20,23,25,-,-)
21  C Newport    63 (16,17,18,18,19,19,20,20,24,-,-,-)
22  UMHB           55 (12,19,19,20,21,21,22,23,24,24.-.-)
23  UW-Stout     37 (10,20,21,22,23,23,-,-,-,-,-,-)
24  Augustana     32 (13,19,19,21,-,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)
25  RIC              24 (18,19,19,25,25,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)

26  Transy          21 (17,20,24,24,25,25)
27  MIT             20 (19,21,21,23)
28  Cortland St   17 (21,22,22,23,25)
29  Stevens        10 (20,24,25,25)
30  OWU             8 (22,24,25.25)
31  Brandeis        5 24,24,25)
t32 Albright         4 (22)
t32 St. Norbert    4 (22)
t34 Randolph       3 (23)
t34 Wesley          3 (23)
36  Juniata          1

I guess I don't like the WIAC too much.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 06, 2013, 01:53:18 AM
7express,

I admire the WIAC tremendously, but I had UWSP 12th, UWW 16th, and didn't vote for Stout - don't beat yourself up over your WIAC votes! 8-)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 06, 2013, 05:27:14 AM
I guess I started this trend.  ;)  Unlike 7express, I like the WIAC.   :P

New to my poll were MHB, Cortland St. and RHIT, who re-entered.  Finally dropped Brandeis, also RIC and Transy

1.  St. Thomas   296 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,3)
2.  Rochester     266 (1,1,2,2,2,3,3,4,4,5,5,14)
3.  Whitworth     265 (2,2,2,2,2,3,3,3,3,4,7,14)
4.  NCC             239 (2,3,4,5,6,6,6,6,8,8,9,10)
5.  WPI             226 (1,3,3,4,4,4,6,11,11,11,13,15)
6.  IWU             217 (4,5,5,6,7,7,8,8,8,8,14,15)
7.  Catholic        212 (4,5,5,6,6,7,9,9,9,12,13,15)
8.  Williams        208 (5,5,5,6,7,7,8,10,11,12,13,15)
9.  UWSP          202 (3,7,7,8,8,8,9,11,12,12,12,13)
10  Midd           198 (4,5,6,6,6,7,8,10,12,16,17,17)
11  UWW          164 (4,9,9,10,11,11,13,15,16,16,16,18)
12  St. Mary's    163 (7,9,9,10,12,12,13,13,14,14,15,21)
13  Amherst       155 (5,7,7,9,11,11,12,17,18,21,21,22)
14  Wooster       154 (4,10,11,11,11,12,13,14,14,17,19,22)
15  Hampden-S   140 (2,3,10,14,16,16,16,17,17,20,20,21)
16  Ramapo        134 (7,10,10,14,14,14,14,16,17,17,18,-)
17  Calvin          123 (9,9,10,13,15,15,16,18,18,18,22,-)
18  Wheaton      83 (12,13,15,17,18,18,19,20,23,24,24,-)
19  RHIT            80 (10,15,15,16,20,21,21,22,23,23,23,22)
20  WashU         72 (13,15,15,16,17,18,19,20,23,25,-,-)
21  C Newport    63 (16,17,18,18,19,19,20,20,24,-,-,-)
22  UMHB           55 (12,19,19,20,21,21,22,23,24,24.-.-)
23  UW-Stout     37 (10,20,21,22,23,23,-,-,-,-,-,-)
24  Augustana     32 (13,19,19,21,-,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)
25  RIC              24 (18,19,19,25,25,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)

26  Transy          21 (17,20,24,24,25,25)
27  MIT             20 (19,21,21,23)
28  Cortland St   17 (21,22,22,23,25)
29  Stevens        10 (20,24,25,25)
30  OWU             8 (22,24,25.25)
31  Brandeis        5 24,24,25)
t32 Albright         4 (22)
t32 St. Norbert    4 (22)
t34 Randolph       3 (23)
t34 Wesley          3 (23)
36  Juniata          1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 06, 2013, 05:44:07 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2013, 10:16:16 PM
While I'm always delighted to see respect for the CCIW (though I am almost never the highest voter for any of the teams; my IWU vote was #7), I'm totally mystified by the love affair many of you have for NCC. EIGHT of you are still ranking NCC higher than IWU!  Are you not aware that (with just 4 games remaining in conference) IWU is THREE games ahead of NCC (10-0 vs. 7-3), and beat them head-to-head (In Bloomington; if I'm in contention in CCIW pickems, even I will probably pick NCC in the rematch in Naperville)??  At one point, I too had NCC ranked #1 in the country - that was a while ago.

My Polls

Poll 1
NCC #2...I believe they were undefeated at the time, with wins over Aurora, Platteville, La Crosse, Ramapo, and Wheaton
IWU #21...I don't think IWU had any notable wins at the time.  Plus, 3 losses to Whitewater, Wash U and Franklin.

Poll 2
NCC #4...LOST at Carthage, beats Augustana
IWU #11...beat Augustana, beat Carthage

Poll 3
NCC #3...beat Milikin, won at North Park
IWU #9...won at North Park, won at Milikin

Poll 4
NCC #3...LOST at IWU, LOST at Wheaton
IWU #8...beat NCC, won at Elmhurst

Poll 5
NCC #2...beat Carthage, beat Elmhurst
IWU #5...won at Augustana, beat Wheaton

There are other factors, like who won/lost around these teams.  I guess you can look at Poll 4 where NCC lost twice, but on the road to ranked teams, and losing by 8 and 2.  I've noted before, I think, that I tend not to punish teams automatically, just because they lose, and don't punish too much especially to ranked conference foes on the road.


Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Charles on February 06, 2013, 07:01:55 AM
Interesting Amherst a 5 and a 22.
Rochester a 1 and a 14
WPI a 1 and a 15
Midd 4 and a 17
Ham S a 2 and a 21

Regional favorites or do the regions tend to watch their teams more?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 06, 2013, 11:27:05 AM
1.  St. Thomas* 296 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,3)
2.  Rochester     266 (1,1,2,2,2,3,3,4,4,5,5,14)
3.  Whitworth     265 (2,2,2,2,2,3,3,3,3,4,7,14)
4.  NCC             239 (2,3,4,5,6,6,6,6,8,8,9,10)
5.  WPI             226 (1,3,3,4,4,4,6,11,11,11,13,15)
6.  IWU             217 (4,5,5,6,7,7,8,8,8,8,14,15)
7.  Catholic        212 (4,5,5,6,6,7,9,9,9,12,13,15)
8.  Williams        208 (5,5,5,6,7,7,8,10,11,12,13,15)
9.  UWSP          202 (3,7,7,8,8,8,9,11,12,12,12,13)
10  Midd           198 (4,5,6,6,6,7,8,10,12,16,17,17)
11  UWW          164 (4,9,9,10,11,11,13,15,16,16,16,18)
12  St. Mary's    163 (7,9,9,10,12,12,13,13,14,14,15,21)
13  Amherst       155 (5,7,7,9,11,11,12,17,18,21,21,22)
14  Wooster       154 (4,10,11,11,11,12,13,14,14,17,19,22)
15  Hampden-S   140 (2,3,10,14,16,16,16,17,17,20,20,21)
16  Ramapo        134 (7,10,10,14,14,14,14,16,17,17,18,-)
17  Calvin          123 (9,9,10,13,15,15,16,18,18,18,22,-)
18  Wheaton      83 (12,13,15,17,18,18,19,20,23,24,24,-)
19  RHIT*          80 (10,15,15,16,20,21,21,22,23,23,23,22)
20  WashU         72 (13,15,15,16,17,18,19,20,23,25,-,-) 22nd
21  C Newport    63 (16,17,18,18,19,19,20,20,24,-,-,-)
22  UMHB           55 (12,19,19,20,21,21,22,23,24,24.-.-)
23  UW-Stout     37 (10,20,21,22,23,23,-,-,-,-,-,-)
24  Augustana     32 (13,19,19,21,-,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)
25  RIC              24 (18,19,19,25,25,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)

26  Transy          21 (17,20,24,24,25,25)
27  MIT             20 (19,21,21,23)
28  Cortland St   17 (21,22,22,23,25)
29  Stevens*      10 (20,24,25,25)
30  OWU             8 (22,24,25.25)
31  Brandeis        5 24,24,25)
t32 Albright         4 (22)
t32 St. Norbert    4 (22)
t34 Randolph       3 (23)
t34 Wesley          3 (23)
36  Juniata          1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 06, 2013, 11:36:34 AM
So now it's peer pressure which means I have to do it. The WIAC and I are pretty much dating.

1.  St. Thomas   296 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,3)
2.  Rochester     266 (1,1,2,2,2,3,3,4,4,5,5,14)
3.  Whitworth     265 (2,2,2,2,2,3,3,3,3,4,7,14)
4.  NCC             239 (2,3,4,5,6,6,6,6,8,8,9,10)
5.  WPI             226 (1,3,3,4,4,4,6,11,11,11,13,15)
6.  IWU             217 (4,5,5,6,7,7,8,8,8,8,14,15)
7.  Catholic        212 (4,5,5,6,6,7,9,9,9,12,13,15)
8.  Williams        208 (5,5,5,6,7,7,8,10,11,12,13,15)
9.  UWSP          202 (3,7,7,8,8,8,9,11,12,12,12,13)
10  Midd           198 (4,5,6,6,6,7,8,10,12,16,17,17)
11  UWW          164 (4,9,9,10,11,11,13,15,16,16,16,18)
12  St. Mary's    163 (7,9,9,10,12,12,13,13,14,14,15,21)
13  Amherst       155 (5,7,7,9,11,11,12,17,18,21,21,22)
14  Wooster       154 (4,10,11,11,11,12,13,14,14,17,19,22)
15  Hampden-S   140 (2,3,10,14,16,16,16,17,17,20,20,21)
16  Ramapo        134 (7,10,10,14,14,14,14,16,17,17,18,-)
17  Calvin          123 (9,9,10,13,15,15,16,18,18,18,22,-)
18  Wheaton      83 (12,13,15,17,18,18,19,20,23,24,24,-)
19  RHIT            80 (10,15,15,16,20,21,21,22,23,23,23,22)
20  WashU         72 (13,15,15,16,17,18,19,20,23,25,-,-)
21  C Newport    63 (16,17,18,18,19,19,20,20,24,-,-,-)
22  UMHB           55 (12,19,19,20,21,21,22,23,24,24.-.-)
23  UW-Stout     37 (10,20,21,22,23,23,-,-,-,-,-,-)
24  Augustana     32 (13,19,19,21,-,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)
25  RIC              24 (18,19,19,25,25,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)

26  Transy          21 (17,20,24,24,25,25)
27  MIT             20 (19,21,21,23)
28  Cortland St   17 (21,22,22,23,25)
29  Stevens        10 (20,24,25,25)
30  OWU             8 (22,24,25,25)
31  Brandeis        5 (24,24,25)
t32 Albright         4 (22)
t32 St. Norbert    4 (22)
t34 Randolph       3 (23)
t34 Wesley          3 (23)
36  Juniata          1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 06, 2013, 12:05:17 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 05, 2013, 11:42:39 PM
Quote from: sac on February 05, 2013, 11:34:23 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 05, 2013, 10:46:08 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 05, 2013, 10:13:39 PM
Seriously though, someone didn't vote for Calvin? Someone that thinks Ramapo is a Top 18 team doesn't see Calvin as a Top 25 team?

That's me. MIAA is way, way bad this year (at least my perception) and Calvin didn't do so hot with their non-con schedule.  Although, I am running out of other options, so they could sneak back in there before all is said and done.

That's just not even accurate.

Massey has the MIAA at #11. One ahead of NCAC and two ahead of NESCAC.

Looking into the NCAC numbers, they're hurt by a couple of factors. Wabash and Denison were struggling big time in non-conference, and now they've improved and are winning games. Meanwhile, Wittenberg, DPU and Hiram have struggled (especially Hiram, WTF?) in conference play and so losses are piling up, and when they lose to teams that lost to Wabash and Denison that hurts them.

No doubt Wabash's double whammy of wins against DPU and Wooster have hurt the league overall in Massey, yet it's great for the league as a whole and shows the evolution of that LG squad from a team that couldn't guard or shoot anyone to one molded to be a fierce defensive team (just like their coach). It just took a while.

So that's why Massey doesn't love the NCAC now even though the league was pretty decent in non-conference play.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 06, 2013, 12:19:49 PM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 06, 2013, 11:27:05 AM
1.  St. Thomas* 296 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,3)
2.  Rochester     266 (1,1,2,2,2,3,3,4,4,5,5,14)
3.  Whitworth     265 (2,2,2,2,2,3,3,3,3,4,7,14)
4.  NCC             239 (2,3,4,5,6,6,6,6,8,8,9,10)
5.  WPI             226 (1,3,3,4,4,4,6,11,11,11,13,15)
6.  IWU             217 (4,5,5,6,7,7,8,8,8,8,14,15)
7.  Catholic        212 (4,5,5,6,6,7,9,9,9,12,13,15)
8.  Williams        208 (5,5,5,6,7,7,8,10,11,12,13,15)
9.  UWSP          202 (3,7,7,8,8,8,9,11,12,12,12,13)
10  Midd           198 (4,5,6,6,6,7,8,10,12,16,17,17)
11  UWW          164 (4,9,9,10,11,11,13,15,16,16,16,18)
12  St. Mary's    163 (7,9,9,10,12,12,13,13,14,14,15,21)
13  Amherst       155 (5,7,7,9,11,11,12,17,18,21,21,22)
14  Wooster       154 (4,10,11,11,11,12,13,14,14,17,19,22)
15  Hampden-S   140 (2,3,10,14,16,16,16,17,17,20,20,21)
16  Ramapo        134 (7,10,10,14,14,14,14,16,17,17,18,-)
17  Calvin          123 (9,9,10,13,15,15,16,18,18,18,22,-)
18  Wheaton      83 (12,13,15,17,18,18,19,20,23,24,24,-)
19  RHIT*          80 (10,15,15,16,20,21,21,22,23,23,23,22)
20  WashU         72 (13,15,15,16,17,18,19,20,23,25,-,-) 22nd
21  C Newport    63 (16,17,18,18,19,19,20,20,24,-,-,-)
22  UMHB           55 (12,19,19,20,21,21,22,23,24,24.-.-)
23  UW-Stout     37 (10,20,21,22,23,23,-,-,-,-,-,-)
24  Augustana     32 (13,19,19,21,-,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)
25  RIC              24 (18,19,19,25,25,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)

26  Transy          21 (17,20,24,24,25,25)
27  MIT             20 (19,21,21,23)
28  Cortland St   17 (21,22,22,23,25)
29  Stevens*      10 (20,24,25,25)
30  OWU             8 (22,24,25.25)
31  Brandeis        5 24,24,25)
t32 Albright         4 (22)
t32 St. Norbert    4 (22)
t34 Randolph       3 (23)
t34 Wesley          3 (23)
36  Juniata          1

Re: WashU.  Due to extremely sloppy handwriting, when I was entering the votes in the poll, I read a '4' (22nd) as an '11' (15th).  They had originally been added correctly (i.e., WashU's vote total is correct).  The poll has been corrected.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: ziggy on February 06, 2013, 12:39:17 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 05, 2013, 10:46:08 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 05, 2013, 10:13:39 PM
Seriously though, someone didn't vote for Calvin? Someone that thinks Ramapo is a Top 18 team doesn't see Calvin as a Top 25 team?

That's me.  MIAA is way, way bad this year (at least my perception) and Calvin didn't do so hot with their non-con schedule.  Although, I am running out of other options, so they could sneak back in there before all is said and done.

For what it's worth, I'm treating WPI the same way - they just happen to have won all their games so far.  I'm definitely one of the double digit voters for them - and really worried I've put them too high each week).

I keep being baffled that someone isn't voting for Wheaton (although it's more understandable after the loss this week) - I imagine I'm embodying the same frustration for you.

If that's the way you feel about Calvin, that's fine. I don't agree with it, especially considering margin of victory, but my biggest struggle with it is in comparison to you having Wooster at 11. Looking at common opponents, Calvin is 3-0, Wooster is 1-2. Those were two home games and a road game for Wooster, home, road and neutral for Calvin.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: frodotwo on February 06, 2013, 12:40:23 PM
I didn't want to be left out so here's my poll. Big movers were Hampden-Sydney +4, Amherst +3, UWSP -7, Wooster -5, Chris Newport -7, and Wheaton -5. RIC out, UW Stout in.  I slotted Calvin at #9, they've won 13 in a row and most of them handily. Massey has them in the top 25% of SOS, way ahead of the NESCAC teams. HSU has been winning quite handily all year long against good competition, so they've moved quickly up my board. Spots 4-7 were my toughest picks, I thought NCC should have won by a little more against their latest opponents, while WPI, Catholic and St. Mary's keep winning, but their schedules are not all that great.

2-4-13 Posters' Poll:

1.  St. Thomas   296 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,3)
2.  Rochester     266 (1,1,2,2,2,3,3,4,4,5,5,14)
3.  Whitworth     265 (2,2,2,2,2,3,3,3,3,4,7,14)
4.  NCC             239 (2,3,4,5,6,6,6,6,8,8,9,10)
5.  WPI             226 (1,3,3,4,4,4,6,11,11,11,13,15)
6.  IWU             217 (4,5,5,6,7,7,8,8,8,8,14,15)
7.  Catholic        212 (4,5,5,6,6,7,9,9,9,12,13,15)
8.  Williams        208 (5,5,5,6,7,7,8,10,11,12,13,15)
9.  UWSP          202 (3,7,7,8,8,8,9,11,12,12,12,13)
10  Midd           198 (4,5,6,6,6,7,8,10,12,16,17,17)
11  UWW          164 (4,9,9,10,11,11,13,15,16,16,16,18)
12  St. Mary's    163 (7,9,9,10,12,12,13,13,14,14,15,21)
13  Amherst       155 (5,7,7,9,11,11,12,17,18,21,21,22)
14  Wooster       154 (4,10,11,11,11,12,13,14,14,17,19,22)
15  Hampden-S   140 (2,3,10,14,16,16,16,17,17,20,20,21)
16  Ramapo        134 (7,10,10,14,14,14,14,16,17,17,18,-)
17  Calvin          123 (9,9,10,13,15,15,16,18,18,18,22,-)
18  Wheaton      83 (12,13,15,17,18,18,19,20,23,24,24,-)
19  RHIT            80 (10,15,15,16,20,21,21,22,23,23,23,22)
20  WashU         72 (13,15,15,16,17,18,19,20,23,25,-,-)
21  C Newport    63 (16,17,18,18,19,19,20,20,24,-,-,-)
22  UMHB           55 (12,19,19,20,21,21,22,23,24,24.-.-)
23  UW-Stout     37 (10,20,21,22,23,23,-,-,-,-,-,-)
24  Augustana     32 (13,19,19,21,-,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)
25  RIC              24 (18,19,19,25,25,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)

26  Transy          21 (17,20,24,24,25,25)
27  MIT             20 (19,21,21,23)
28  Cortland St   17 (21,22,22,23,25)
29  Stevens        10 (20,24,25,25)
30  OWU             8 (22,24,25.25)
31  Brandeis        5 24,24,25)
t32 Albright         4 (22)
t32 St. Norbert    4 (22)
t34 Randolph       3 (23)
t34 Wesley          3 (23)
36  Juniata          1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 06, 2013, 01:12:37 PM
Quote from: ziggy on February 06, 2013, 12:39:17 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 05, 2013, 10:46:08 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 05, 2013, 10:13:39 PM
Seriously though, someone didn't vote for Calvin? Someone that thinks Ramapo is a Top 18 team doesn't see Calvin as a Top 25 team?

That's me.  MIAA is way, way bad this year (at least my perception) and Calvin didn't do so hot with their non-con schedule.  Although, I am running out of other options, so they could sneak back in there before all is said and done.

For what it's worth, I'm treating WPI the same way - they just happen to have won all their games so far.  I'm definitely one of the double digit voters for them - and really worried I've put them too high each week).

I keep being baffled that someone isn't voting for Wheaton (although it's more understandable after the loss this week) - I imagine I'm embodying the same frustration for you.

If that's the way you feel about Calvin, that's fine. I don't agree with it, especially considering margin of victory, but my biggest struggle with it is in comparison to you having Wooster at 11. Looking at common opponents, Calvin is 3-0, Wooster is 1-2. Those were two home games and a road game for Wooster, home, road and neutral for Calvin.

I don't use that in my ranking, though.  Pretty much I look at every team and ask who did you beat, when did you beat them and where was the game played.  I do the same for losses.

I'll admit the GL region is one I know the least well, so if you can accept ignorance as an excuse, please do.

I've got Calvin on the verge.  They may make it into my poll next week given the number of losses already.  I just hate rewarding teams for bad schedules.  I'm already second (and third and fourth) guessing where I've put Middlebury and WPI.

Ultimately the difference for me is that beating good teams counts for a lot.  I've been trying to predict d3 games for a long time (I think this is my 14th season really taking a major interest).  I've been wrong a lot.  My hunches aren't great.  But one thing that's born out over time is that beating good teams is almost foolproof.  Some teams don't get the chance during the regular season due to scheduling and have to prove it in the playoffs.  I'd personally rather make a team prove it when it matters than be disappointed when they fail.

I'll be happy to take all the "told you so's" come mid-march if Calvin does well.  I'm always happy to give credit to good teams.  I just want them to prove it.

At least Calvin's on the list.  I took one look at Albertus Magnus' schedule, even when they'd only lost to Yale and deleted them immediately.  They'll have to make it to Salem before I'm willing to vote for them.  Calvin is not nearly as tough a sale.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 06, 2013, 02:02:22 PM
Sometimes you prove it by MOV. You can't hold a schedule totally against a team, especially when they're locked into a large league schedule or have some geographic issues. Sometimes you just can't be a stick-in-the-mud...

And why should it really surprise you that someone isn't voting for X team or Y team when YOU sire were Lord King Outlier for the longest time!  ;) Realistically, from 15-45 isn't that huge of a leap...
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 06, 2013, 02:39:39 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 06, 2013, 02:02:22 PM
Sometimes you prove it by MOV. You can't hold a schedule totally against a team, especially when they're locked into a large league schedule or have some geographic issues. Sometimes you just can't be a stick-in-the-mud...

And why should it really surprise you that someone isn't voting for X team or Y team when YOU sire were Lord King Outlier for the longest time!  Realistically, from 15-45 isn't that huge of a leap...

Exactly.  It's not like we don't have conference and national tournaments upcoming.  Rankings don't choose champions in basketball, thank God.  We get to see them compete against the best and it gives us better perspective.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Titan Q on February 06, 2013, 02:59:47 PM
One thing to keep in mind in sorting out IWU vs North Central is that the Titans had some key guys out in all 3 losses this season (all in the non-conference).  Consider these CCIW stats...

- Brady Zimmer (G), 6-4 Jr - 13.9 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 35-49 FG (.714), 9-13 3-point (.692), 25-30 FT (.833)  - leading scorer
- Pat Sodemann (G), 6-3 So - 11.7 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 1.5 apg, 25-26 FT (.962) - second leading scorer
- Victor Davis (F), 6-5 Jr - 10.6 ppg, 5.4 rpg - strongest, most physical player

IWU played UW-Whitewater without Sodemann, Wash U without Davis and Sodemann, and Franklin without Zimmer.  Honestly the injuries were huge in the UWW and Wash U games...the Titans were just awful at Franklin and FC was great.

Another consideration is the development of IWU's PG Dylan Overstreet.  He was a JV player exclusively last year and just wasn't very good throughout a lot of the non-conference.  But he's really had an outstanding CCIW season - one of IWU's most valuable players. 

Due to those injuries and the development of Overstreet, the Titans are just a very different right now than when they lost those games. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: madzillagd on February 06, 2013, 03:01:19 PM
I was curious about which teams have really been tested by other good squads.  I took a look at how teams did against teams with a .700 winning % or higher.  Here's how the D3Hoops Top 10 did...

1. St. Thomas 4-0
2. WPI 3-0
3. Whitworth 2-1
4. Rochester 6-0
5. Middlebury 0-1
6. Amherst 4-0
7. Williams 3-2
8. Catholic 3-1
9. Ill Wesleyan 5-2
10. Ramapo 4-1

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 06, 2013, 03:14:24 PM
While I have NCC ahead of IWU by a tick, it's almost a rounding error in reality (out of 400+ teams, it is).

And while I do have sympathy for some teams with poor schedules in some instances, I don't really have much for Middlebury. Plenty of teams to choose from up there AND the NESCAC really should play more conference games. (He sayeth for how many years in a row...)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 07, 2013, 09:07:39 AM
Quote from: Titan Q on February 06, 2013, 02:59:47 PM
One thing to keep in mind in sorting out IWU vs North Central is that the Titans had some key guys out in all 3 losses this season (all in the non-conference).  Consider these CCIW stats...

- Brady Zimmer (G), 6-4 Jr - 13.9 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 35-49 FG (.714), 9-13 3-point (.692), 25-30 FT (.833)  - leading scorer
- Pat Sodemann (G), 6-3 So - 11.7 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 1.5 apg, 25-26 FT (.962) - second leading scorer
- Victor Davis (F), 6-5 Jr - 10.6 ppg, 5.4 rpg - strongest, most physical player

IWU played UW-Whitewater without Sodemann, Wash U without Davis and Sodemann, and Franklin without Zimmer.  Honestly the injuries were huge in the UWW and Wash U games...the Titans were just awful at Franklin and FC was great.

Another consideration is the development of IWU's PG Dylan Overstreet.  He was a JV player exclusively last year and just wasn't very good throughout a lot of the non-conference.  But he's really had an outstanding CCIW season - one of IWU's most valuable players. 

Due to those injuries and the development of Overstreet, the Titans are just a very different right now than when they lost those games.

IMHO, I think its unrealistic for most of us to consider these situations. Unless we are fans of those teams, or at the very least, of the conferences they belong to, its tough for the regular poster to take into account these factors. Only speaking for myself, I barely have time to do what I do now, let alone go through boxscores to see who has played and who hasnt't or go through pages and pages of posts in each conference to read up on injuries.

I would not expect many of you to know that Stevens Point's best player has been out for most of the year, that part of the reason they lost to La Crosse was because their point guard and arguably their best defender in Austin Ryf didnt play or that Whitewater's point guard Cody Odegaard has been out for a long time.  :D  :o
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 07, 2013, 10:22:59 AM
I think of the season as a whole for the most part, and add a little weight to how teams are playing now, when I vote.

But you're going to get unlikely results that gobsmack the data. Right now, the biggest upset according to Massey (SPOLIER ALERT!!! DATA INVOLVED!! NOT JUST WATCHING VIDEO!!!) was Manchester beating Transylvania at Transylvania. I think Transy had some injuries, but that's a bad, weird, ugly result no matter if Transy was playing their JV. That's a tough place to play and Manchester is, well, a pretty awful basketball team this year. And yes, they beat my alma mater. (The Spartans were 3-1 at one point, ye Gods...)

I thought of this while watching TCU beat Kansas last night. Ken Pomeroy had that as a rounding error away from a 100% chance Kansas would win. That becomes the second most unlikely result in D-1, as somehow Old Dominion (2-20 with a coach dismissed just recently because he showed up late to a game recently allegedly 'not in game shape') beat Virginia.

Oh, well...SPORTS!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 07, 2013, 01:08:23 PM

I'll let you know, a one point win over Millikin has my attention and not in a good way.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: cardinalpride on February 07, 2013, 08:23:05 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 07, 2013, 01:08:23 PM

I'll let you know, a one point win over Millikin has my attention and not in a good way.
In a major d 3 conference, a team should not have to apologize for a road victory of any kind. Millikin did have a 20 pt victory last Saturday.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 07, 2013, 08:47:48 PM
Quote from: cardinalpride on February 07, 2013, 08:23:05 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 07, 2013, 01:08:23 PM

I'll let you know, a one point win over Millikin has my attention and not in a good way.
In a major d 3 conference, a team should not have to apologize for a road victory of any kind. Millikin did have a 20 pt victory last Saturday.

They do if they want me to keep ranking them ahead of IWU.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 07, 2013, 09:03:58 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 07, 2013, 08:47:48 PM
Quote from: cardinalpride on February 07, 2013, 08:23:05 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 07, 2013, 01:08:23 PM

I'll let you know, a one point win over Millikin has my attention and not in a good way.
In a major d 3 conference, a team should not have to apologize for a road victory of any kind. Millikin did have a 20 pt victory last Saturday.

They do if they want me to keep ranking them ahead of IWU.

A simple solution: since IWU is 11-0 in the CCIW while NCC is 8-3, stop ranking them above IWU! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: cardinalpride on February 07, 2013, 09:53:01 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 07, 2013, 08:47:48 PM
Quote from: cardinalpride on February 07, 2013, 08:23:05 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 07, 2013, 01:08:23 PM

I'll let you know, a one point win over Millikin has my attention and not in a good way.
In a major d 3 conference, a team should not have to apologize for a road victory of any kind. Millikin did have a 20 pt victory last Saturday.

They do if they want me to keep ranking them ahead of IWU.
You reserve the right to vote how you please. NCC and IWU will square off again on 2/19. If both teams aspire to be CCIW tournament champions, and I'm sure they do, there may be 3rd meeting the weekend of the 2/22-23. Point being, we will find out who's better in the next two weeks.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 07, 2013, 10:15:31 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 07, 2013, 09:03:58 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 07, 2013, 08:47:48 PM
Quote from: cardinalpride on February 07, 2013, 08:23:05 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 07, 2013, 01:08:23 PM

I'll let you know, a one point win over Millikin has my attention and not in a good way.
In a major d 3 conference, a team should not have to apologize for a road victory of any kind. Millikin did have a 20 pt victory last Saturday.

They do if they want me to keep ranking them ahead of IWU.

A simple solution: since IWU is 11-0 in the CCIW while NCC is 8-3, stop ranking them above IWU! ;D

And NCC has a nonconference record of 11-0, while IWU went 8-3...and that's where those records stood when our 1st Pollster's Poll came out.  As I explained in an earlier post, I had NCC really high (#2) and IWU (#21) really low.  They are now #2 and #5.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 07, 2013, 10:42:57 PM
My picks  (Variant picks are in the "??")

2-4-13 Posters' Poll:

1.  St. Thomas   296 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,3)  [1]
2.  Rochester     266 (1,1,2,2,2,3,3,4,4,5,5,14)   [5]
3.  Whitworth     265 (2,2,2,2,2,3,3,3,3,4,7,14)     [3]
4.  NCC             239 (2,3,4,5,6,6,6,6,8,8,9,10)     *[11]
5.  WPI             226 (1,3,3,4,4,4,6,11,11,11,13,15)  [2]
6.  IWU*             217 (4,5,5,6,7,7,8,8,8,8,14,15)    [9]
7.  Catholic        212 (4,5,5,6,6,7,9,9,9,12,13,15)    [8]
8.  Williams        208 (5,5,5,6,7,7,8,10,11,12,13,15)  [7]
9.  UWSP          202 (3,7,7,8,8,8,9,11,12,12,12,13)    *[15]
10  Midd           198 (4,5,6,6,6,7,8,10,12,16,17,17)    [5]
11  UWW          164 (4,9,9,10,11,11,13,15,16,16,16,18)  [16]
12  St. Mary's    163 (7,9,9,10,12,12,13,13,14,14,15,21)  [12]
13  Amherst       155 (5,7,7,9,11,11,12,17,18,21,21,22)    [6]
14  Wooster       154 (4,10,11,11,11,12,13,14,14,17,19,22)  [14]
15  Hampden-S   140 (2,3,10,14,16,16,16,17,17,20,20,21)     [17]
16  Ramapo        134 (7,10  ?8?,10,14,14,14,14,16,17,17,18,-)  [10]
17  Calvin          123 (9,9,10,13,15,15,16,18,18,18,22,-)    [13]
18  Wheaton      83 (12,13,15,17,18,18,19,20,23,24,24,-)       [22]
19  RHIT            80 (10,15,15,16,20,21,21,22,23,23,23,22  ?24?)   [19]
20  WashU*         72 (13,15,16,17,18,19,20,22,23,25,-,-)       [20]
21  C Newport    63 (16,17,18,18,19,19,20,20,24,-,-,-)     [21]
22  UMHB           55 (12,19,19,20,21,21,22,23,24,24.-.-)   [RV 34]
23  UW-Stout     37 (10,20,21,22,23,23,=,-,-,-,-,-)        [RV 32]
24  Augustana     32 (13,19,19,21,-,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)         [RV 33]
25  RIC              24 (18,19,19,25,25,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)     [18]

26  Transy          21 (17,20,24,24,25,25) [RV 27]           
27  MIT             20 (19,21,21,23)    [23]
28  Cortland St   17 (21,22,22,23,25)   [24]
29  Stevens        10 (20,24,25,25)   [25]
30  OWU             8 (22,24,25.25)    [RV 28]
31  Brandeis        5 (24,24,25)  [RV 26]
t32 Albright         4 (22)    [RV 31]
t32 St. Norbert    4 (22)     [RV  35]
t34 Randolph       3 (23)     [Received no votes]
t34 Wesley          3 (23)     [RV 29]
36  Juniata          1     [Received no votes]

I will re-assess the CCIW.  IWU slipped up on me!  I think that Wash U is still that good. The UAA #2 is probably a Top 20 team every year.

WE are really out of line with the Top 25 voters. I have put the Top 25 in brackets at the end.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 07, 2013, 10:57:05 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 07, 2013, 10:15:31 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 07, 2013, 09:03:58 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 07, 2013, 08:47:48 PM
Quote from: cardinalpride on February 07, 2013, 08:23:05 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 07, 2013, 01:08:23 PM

I'll let you know, a one point win over Millikin has my attention and not in a good way.
In a major d 3 conference, a team should not have to apologize for a road victory of any kind. Millikin did have a 20 pt victory last Saturday.

They do if they want me to keep ranking them ahead of IWU.

A simple solution: since IWU is 11-0 in the CCIW while NCC is 8-3, stop ranking them above IWU! ;D

And NCC has a nonconference record of 11-0, while IWU went 8-3...and that's where those records stood when our 1st Pollster's Poll came out.  As I explained in an earlier post, I had NCC really high (#2) and IWU (#21) really low.  They are now #2 and #5.

True, but non-con is 'ancient history', while CCIW is 'now'! ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 07, 2013, 11:26:05 PM
IWU vs NCC

head to head:  IWU 69 NCC 61

Common opponents:
vs Hope    IWU 1-0   NCC 1-0
vs Aug.    IWU 2-0   NCC  1-0
vs Car.     IWU 1-0   NCC 1-1
vs Elm.     IWU 2-0   NCC  2-0
vs Mill.     IWU 1-0   NCC  2-0
vs NP       IWU 2-0  NCC 1-0
vs Whe    IWU 2-0   NCC  1-1
Margin:     +205          +88

IWU: 11-0
NCC:  9-2

IWU's 3 non-conference losses came to Franklin, Washington, Whitewater.  IWU losing to Whitewater is pretty much the same as NCC losing to Wheaton.  IWU losing to Washington is better than NCC losing to Carthage.  Franklin is IWU's only 'bad' loss that can't be compared, IWU's head-to-head vs NCC trumps this result.

I have IWU #8, NCC #9.....which I actually feel might be at least a spot or two to low for both and will be worked out as my 5-7 Williams/Middlebury/Amherst trinity separates itself.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 10, 2013, 07:08:36 PM
Just sent mine in.  That was difficult this week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 10, 2013, 07:39:00 PM
Quote from: 7express on February 10, 2013, 07:08:36 PM
Just sent mine in.  That was difficult this week.

Got it, but haven't opened it.  I never look at other voters' ballots until I've filled out mine, and I don't do mine until Daryl's "How They Fared" is posted (making sure I haven't forgotten/overlooked any important results).

I DO anticipate some major shake-ups this week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 10, 2013, 08:49:26 PM
Mine is in.  Lots of re-assessing.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 11, 2013, 12:29:52 AM
I'm not seriously worried (yet), but last week, despite competition from the Super Bowl, I had received 6 ballots by this time.  This week I have three. :(
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 11, 2013, 05:39:20 AM
I had a long weekend, and not in a good way.  It definitely won't be in until the 11th hour on Tuesday, sorry. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 11, 2013, 05:00:52 PM

I'm pretty sure my poll will be shuffled around a lot and largely capriciously and indefensibly.  Been a busy weekend - I'll try to do it tonight.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 11, 2013, 05:05:20 PM
I wasn't yet worried last night, but I feel even better today - 9 ballots in already!  Keep 'em comin'! :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 11, 2013, 07:05:05 PM
Tom, I've seen your posts on other threads, including ones requiring some preparation time.  You COULD have been working on a ballot! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 11, 2013, 07:32:59 PM
Mine's in.  Only one new entry but a bunch of shuffling around.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 11, 2013, 08:07:12 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 11, 2013, 07:05:05 PM
Tom, I've seen your posts on other threads, including ones requiring some preparation time.  You COULD have been working on a ballot! ;D

Yeah, that was probably today.  ::) The whole weekend was shot because of a sick 2-year old.  Normally, I have all the prep work for the poll Sunday night (with Nester's results posted and getting the Massey stuff updated). I have to catch up on the pick em pool, Pool C results and then the poll.  It won't be in until tomorrow.  Hopefully I will have everything put together tonight and work on my Top 25 at work tomorrow.   :o
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 11, 2013, 10:00:09 PM
And Hoops Fan makes ELEVEN!  And it is only Monday! ;D

Greek promises one tomorrow.  (Hope the two-year-old is feeling better!)  sac has not been heard from, but he is always a Tuesday voter anyway.  Leaving only John Gleich as a (total) unknown.  I remember the days of youngun's (my youngest is now 21), and can't even imagine how I would have functioned with twins - the next door neighbors have an 8 or 9 year old boy and identical twin 6-year-old girls; we used to see them a lot more often than we do now! :P
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 11, 2013, 10:43:47 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 11, 2013, 10:00:09 PM
And Hoops Fan makes ELEVEN!  And it is only Monday! ;D

Greek promises one tomorrow.  (Hope the two-year-old is feeling better!)  sac has not been heard from, but he is always a Tuesday voter anyway.  Leaving only John Gleich as a (total) unknown.  I remember the days of youngun's (my youngest is now 21), and can't even imagine how I would have functioned with twins - the next door neighbors have an 8 or 9 year old boy and identical twin 6-year-old girls; we used to see them a lot more often than we do now! :P


Watching LEC basketball tonight and I keep thinking it's Tuesday, and how come the poll isn't posted by now.  Damn snow.  I'm gonna be really confused on Wednesday when we'll be having TWO conference games during the week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on February 12, 2013, 08:21:02 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 11, 2013, 10:00:09 PM
And Hoops Fan makes ELEVEN!  And it is only Monday! ;D

Greek promises one tomorrow.  (Hope the two-year-old is feeling better!)  sac has not been heard from, but he is always a Tuesday voter anyway.  Leaving only John Gleich as a (total) unknown.  I remember the days of youngun's (my youngest is now 21), and can't even imagine how I would have functioned with twins - the next door neighbors have an 8 or 9 year old boy and identical twin 6-year-old girls; we used to see them a lot more often than we do now! :P

It's not the boys this time... I'm in Florida and completely out of the loop! All I know is that Point didn't lose their game on Saturday... because they didn't play  :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 12, 2013, 10:59:19 AM
Ahhh. The annual family vacation to Florida! You responded so we know there is internet in Florida and you have plenty of time to do your poll sitting next to the pool! Well, if Kate is anything like Carrie, she probably banned you from D3hoops in favor of quality family time...which means you posted in bathroom.  ;D  :'(
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 12, 2013, 01:18:14 PM
Mine is in...


Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 12, 2013, 05:29:43 PM
I have now received all 13 ballots that I was expecting, so the poll may be up at a record early time.  I'm holding off just a bit in case anyone wishes to surprise me with another ballot! ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 12, 2013, 07:08:33 PM
Posters' Poll, thru games of 2-10-13:

1.  St. Thomas     325 (unanimous)
2.  IWU               287 (2,2,3,3,3,3,3,3,4,4,5,6,10)
3.  NCC               274 (2,2,3,4,4,4,5,5,6,6,6,7,10)
4.  Rochester      256 (2,2,3,3,4,5,6,7,7,7,7,9,20)
5.  Amherst         255 (2,2,3,4,4,5,6,6,6,7,10,12,16)
6.  UWSP            234 (3,5,5,5,5,7,7,9,10,11,11,11,15)
7.  Middlebury     231 (2,2,3,4,6,7,7,8,10,11,14,16,17)
8.  St.Mary's        203 (3,6,7,8,8,9,10,11,12,12,14,16,19)
9.  UWW              198 (4,4,5,6,8,11,11,12,12,15,15,16,21)
10 HSC                197 (2,2,5,8,8,9,13,13,15,15,15,16,20)
11 WPI                 192 (2,4,5,5,6,8,8,11,12,16,19,24,-)
12 Catholic           176 (4,8,9,9,10,11,12,14,15,15,17,17,21)
13 Wooster          175 (7,8,8,9,10,10,10,14,15,15,15,16,-)
14 Williams           158 (7,9,9,10,12,13,13,14,16,16,19,20,22)
15 Whitworth        157 (6,9,9,9,11,11,13,14,14,18,20,21,-)
16 WashU              139 (10,13,13,13,13,14,14,15,16,19,19,19,21)
17 RHIT                  121 (8,8,10,13,17,17,18,19,20,21,22,22,22)
18 Calvin                115 (9,12,13,14,17,17,18,18,18,20,20,21,-)
19 Wheaton           102 (12,13,14,14,15,18,18,19,20,21,22,24,-)
20 Ramapo              93 (11,12,12,18,19,19,19,20,20,21,23,25,-)
21 UMHB                  82 (12,16,16,18,18,18,20,21,22,22,23,24,-)
22 RIC                     52 (16,17,19,19,21,22,23,23,24,24,-,-,-)
23 Cortland St.        40 (17,20,21,22,22,23,23,24,24,25,25,-,-)
24 Transy                 35 (14,17,21,23,24,24,25,25,-,-,-,-,-)
t25 Stevens             28 (17,20,23,23,24,25,25,25,25,25,-,-,-)
t25 MIT                    28 (17,18,21,23,24,25,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)

27 UW-Stout            23 (11,18)
28 Randolph            16 (13,23)
29 Alvernia              12 17,23)
30 Concordia TX        5 (23,24)
t31 Augie                  4 (22)
t31 St. Norbert         4 (22)
t31 Wesley               4 (22)
34 Emory                  2 (24)
t35 OWU                  1
t35 Thomas More     1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 12, 2013, 07:47:57 PM
First time all season I was the outlier. I had OWU 25th. But I noticed a big mistake in that I totally omitted Whitworth by accident. I erased them in my spreadsheet and didn't add them back in (which would have been about 14th). The net effect would be OWU would lose a vote. Whitworth would climb above Williams and Stevens would fall under MIT (since I had Stevens ranked and MIT not..)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 12, 2013, 08:15:23 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 12, 2013, 07:47:57 PM
First time all season I was the outlier. I had OWU 25th. But I noticed a big mistake in that I totally omitted Whitworth by accident. I erased them in my spreadsheet and didn't add them back in (which would have been about 14th). The net effect would be OWU would lose a vote. Whitworth would climb above Williams and Stevens would fall under MIT (since I had Stevens ranked and MIT not..)

I very nearly asked you about Whitworth, but they DID lose 2 in a row and some others ranked them pretty low.  Omitting them completely didn't seem enough out of line to follow up.  As you note, the changes would be comparatively minor.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 12, 2013, 10:22:21 PM
St. Thomas     325 (unanimous)
2.  IWU               287 (2,2,3,3,3,3,3,3,4,4,5,6,10)
3.  NCC               274 (2,2,3,4,4,4,5,5,6,6,6,7,10)
4.  Rochester      256 (2,2,3,3,4,5,6,7,7,7,7,9,20)
5.  Amherst         255 (2,2,3,4,4,5,6,6,6,7,10,12,16)
6.  UWSP            234 (3,5,5,5,5,7,7,9,10,11,11,11,15)
7.  Middlebury     231 (2,2,3,4,6,7,7,8,10,11,14,16,17)
8.  St.Mary's        203 (3,6,7,8,8,9,10,11,12,12,14,16,19)
9.  UWW              198 (4,4,5,6,8,11,11,12,12,15,15,16,21)
10 HSC                197 (2,2,5,8,8,9,13,13,15,15,15,16,20)
11 WPI                 192 (2,4,5,5,6,8,8,11,12,16,19,24,-)
12 Catholic           176 (4,8,9,9,10,11,12,14,15,15,17,17,21)
13 Wooster          175 (7,8,8,9,10,10,10,14,15,15,15,16,-)
14 Williams           158 (7,9,9,10,12,13,13,14,16,16,19,20,22)
15 Whitworth        157 (6,9,9,9,11,11,13,14,14,18,20,21,-)
16 WashU              139 (10,13,13,13,13,14,14,15,16,19,19,19,21)
17 RHIT                  121 (8,8,10,13,17,17,18,19,20,21,22,22,22)
18 Calvin                115 (9,12,13,14,17,17,18,18,18,20,20,21,-)
19 Wheaton           102 (12,13,14,14,15,18,18,19,20,21,22,24,-)
20 Ramapo              93 (11,12,12,18,19,19,19,20,20,21,23,25,-)
21 UMHB                  82 (12,16,16,18,18,18,20,21,22,22,23,24,-)
22 RIC                     52 (16,17,19,19,21,22,23,23,24,24,-,-,-)
23 Cortland St.        40 (17,20,21,22,22,23,23,24,24,25,25,-,-)
24 Transy                 35 (14,17,21,23,24,24,25,25,-,-,-,-,-)
t25 Stevens             28 (17,20,23,23,24,25,25,25,25,25,-,-,-)
t25 MIT                    28 (17,18,21,23,24,25,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)

27 UW-Stout            23 (11,18)
28 Randolph            16 (13,23)
29 Alvernia              12 17,23)
30 Concordia TX        5 (23,24)
t31 Augie                  4 (22)
t31 St. Norbert         4 (22)
t31 Wesley               4 (22)
34 Emory                  2 (24)
t35 OWU                  1
t35 Thomas More     1

Yes, I'm the lone one that didn't vote for Wheaton.  A 1 point win at home against a 6-6 (albeit good one) team and a 10 point win against a 4-8 team wrapped around that beating at the hands of IWU does nothing for me.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 12, 2013, 10:26:48 PM
1.  St. Thomas     325 (unan1mous)
2.  IWU*             287 (2,2,3,3,3,3,3,3,4,4,5,6,10)
3.  NCC               274 (2,2,3,4,4,4,5,5,6,6,6,7,10)
4.  Rochester      256 (2,2,3,3,4,5,6,7,7,7,7,9,20)
5.  Amherst         255 (2,2,3,4,4,5,6,6,6,7,10,12,16)
6.  UWSP            234 (3,5,5,5,5,7,7,9,10,11,11,11,15)
7.  Middlebury     231 (2,2,3,4,6,7,7,8,10,11,14,16,17)
8.  St.Mary's        203 (3,6,7,8,8,9,10,11,12,12,14,16,19)
9.  UWW              198 (4,4,5,6,8,11,11,12,12,15,15,16,21)
10 HSC                197 (2,2,5,8,8,9,13,13,15,15,15,16,20)
11 WPI                 192 (2,4,5,5,6,8,8,11,12,16,19,24,-)
12 Catholic           176 (4,8,9,9,10,11,12,14,15,15,17,17,21)
13 Wooster          175 (7,8,8,9,10,10,10,14,15,15,15,16,-)
14 Williams           158 (7,9,9,10,12,13,13,14,16,16,19,20,22)
15 Whitworth        157 (6,9,9,9,11,11,13,14,14,18,20,21,-)
16 WashU              139 (10,13,13,13,13,14,14,15,16,19,19,19,21)
17 RHIT                  121 (8,8,10,13,17,17,18,19,20,21,22,22,22)
18 Calvin                115 (9,12,13,14,17,17,18,18,18,20,20,21,-)
19 Wheaton           102 (12,13,14,14,15,18,18,19,20,21,22,24,-)
20 Ramapo              93 (11,12,12,18,19,19,19,20,20,21,23,25,-)
21 UMHB                  82 (12,16,16,18,18,18,20,21,22,22,23,24,-)
22 RIC                     52 (16,17,19,19,21,22,23,23,24,24,-,-,-)
23 Cortland St.        40 (17,20,21,22,22,23,23,24,24,25,25,-,-)
24 Transy                 35 (14,17,21,23,24,24,25,25,-,-,-,-,-)
t25 Stevens*           28 (17,20,23,23,24,25,25,25,25,25,-,-,-)
t25 MIT                    28 (17,18,21,23,24,25,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)

27 UW-Stout            23 (11,18)
28 Randolph            16 (13,23)
29 Alvernia              12 17,23)
30 Concordia TX        5 (23,24)
t31 Augie                  4 (22)
t31 St. Norbert         4 (22)
t31 Wesley               4 (22)
34 Emory                  2 (24)
t35 OWU                  1
t35 Thomas More*   1 (25)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 12, 2013, 11:08:31 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 12, 2013, 08:15:23 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 12, 2013, 07:47:57 PM
First time all season I was the outlier. I had OWU 25th. But I noticed a big mistake in that I totally omitted Whitworth by accident. I erased them in my spreadsheet and didn't add them back in (which would have been about 14th). The net effect would be OWU would lose a vote. Whitworth would climb above Williams and Stevens would fall under MIT (since I had Stevens ranked and MIT not..)

I very nearly asked you about Whitworth, but they DID lose 2 in a row and some others ranked them pretty low.  Omitting them completely didn't seem enough out of line to follow up.  As you note, the changes would be comparatively minor.

I now see that last week you (like several of us) had Whitworth at #2.  If I had noted that at the time, I certainly would have checked back with you - probably no one would go from #2 to out entirely on account of losses to the #2 and #3 teams in their conference!  My bad! :-[

Lesson: everyone triple-check your ballots!  I'll try to do better myself, but you have only one ballot, I have many!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 12, 2013, 11:24:11 PM
Quote from: 7express on February 12, 2013, 10:22:21 PM
Yes, I'm the lone one that didn't vote for Wheaton.  A 1 point win at home against a 6-6 (albeit good one) team and a 10 point win against a 4-8 team wrapped around that beating at the hands of IWU does nothing for me.

Curious, because Wheaton has wins over your #13, a win over your #6, and a win over your #18

I have Wheaton #12
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 12, 2013, 11:30:00 PM
Well if you're like me you've had trouble separating the three NESCAC teams.  Tonight Amherst beat Middlebury 104-101 in 3OT's.

http://www.nescac.com/sports/mbkb/2012-13/boxscores/20130212_bwhn.xml


Clears everything right up. ::)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 13, 2013, 05:40:02 AM
Posters' Poll, thru games of 2-10-13:

1.  St. Thomas     325 (unan1mous)
2.  IWU               287 (2,2,3,3,3,3,3,3,4,4,5,6,10)
3.  NCC               274 (2,2,3,4,4,4,5,5,6,6,6,7,10)
4.  Rochester      256 (2,2,3,3,4,5,6,7,7,7,7,9,20)
5.  Amherst*         255 (2,2,3,4,4,5,6,6,6,7,10,12,16)
6.  UWSP            234 (3,5,5,5,5,7,7,9,10,11,11,11,15)
7.  Middlebury     231 (2,2,3,4,6,7,7,8,10,11,14,16,17)
8.  St.Mary's        203 (3,6,7,8,8,9,10,11,12,12,14,16,19)
9.  UWW              198 (4,4,5,6,8,11,11,12,12,15,15,16,21)
10 HSC                197 (2,2,5,8,8,9,13,13,15,15,15,16,20)
11 WPI                 192 (2,4,5,5,6,8,8,11,12,16,19,24,-)
12 Catholic           176 (4,8,9,9,10,11,12,14,15,15,17,17,21)
13 Wooster*          175 (7,8,8,9,10,10,10,14,15,15,15,16,-)
14 Williams           158 (7,9,9,10,12,13,13,14,16,16,19,20,22)
15 Whitworth        157 (6,9,9,9,11,11,13,14,14,18,20,21,-)
16 WashU              139 (10,13,13,13,13,14,14,15,16,19,19,19,21)
17 RHIT                  121 (8,8,10,13,17,17,18,19,20,21,22,22,22)
18 Calvin                115 (9,12,13,14,17,17,18,18,18,20,20,21,-)
19 Wheaton           102 (12,13,14,14,15,18,18,19,20,21,22,24,-)
20 Ramapo              93 (11,12,12,18,19,19,19,20,20,21,23,25,-)
21 UMHB                  82 (12,16,16,18,18,18,20,21,22,22,23,24,-)
22 RIC                     52 (16,17,19,19,21,22,23,23,24,24,-,-,-)
23 Cortland St.        40 (17,20,21,22,22,23,23,24,24,25,25,-,-)
24 Transy                 35 (14,17,21,23,24,24,25,25,-,-,-,-,-)
t25 Stevens             28 (17,20,23,23,24,25,25,25,25,25,-,-,-)
t25 MIT                    28 (17,18,21,23,24,25,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)

27 UW-Stout            23 (11,18)
28 Randolph            16 (13,23)
29 Alvernia              12 17,23)
30 Concordia TX        5 (23,24)
t31 Augie                  4 (22)
t31 St. Norbert         4 (22)
t31 Wesley               4 (22)
34 Emory                  2 (24)
t35 OWU                  1
t35 Thomas More     1


I think that's the 1st time I've had all 25 of my picks in the poll.  I reluctantly dropped Stout out after losing to La Crosse. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 14, 2013, 08:50:20 PM
Quote from: sac on February 12, 2013, 11:30:00 PM
Well if you're like me you've had trouble separating the three NESCAC teams.  Tonight Amherst beat Middlebury 104-101 in 3OT's.

http://www.nescac.com/sports/mbkb/2012-13/boxscores/20130212_bwhn.xml


Clears everything right up. ::)

The result fits my ballot perfectly since I had Amherst 2 and Midd 3 - probably not gonna change anything! ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 14, 2013, 09:13:33 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 12, 2013, 07:08:33 PM
Posters' Poll, thru games of 2-10-13:

1.  St. Thomas     325 (unanimous)
2.  IWU               287 (2,2,3,3,3,3,3,3,4,4,5,6,10)
3.  NCC*               274 (2,2,3,4,4,4,5,5,6,6,6,7,10)
4.  Rochester      256 (2,2,3,3,4,5,6,7,7,7,7,9,20)
5.  Amherst         255 (2,2,3,4,4,5,6,6,6,7,10,12,16)
6.  UWSP*            234 (3,5,5,5,5,7,7,9,10,11,11,11,15)
7.  Middlebury     231 (2,2,3,4,6,7,7,8,10,11,14,16,17)
8.  St.Mary's        203 (3,6,7,8,8,9,10,11,12,12,14,16,19)
9.  UWW              198 (4,4,5,6,8,11,11,12,12,15,15,16,21)
10 HSC*                197 (2,2,5,8,8,9,13,13,15,15,15,16,20)
11 WPI                 192 (2,4,5,5,6,8,8,11,12,16,19,24,-)
12 Catholic*           176 (4,8,9,9,10,11,12,14,15,15,17,17,21)
13 Wooster          175 (7,8,8,9,10,10,10,14,15,15,15,16,-)
14 Williams*           158 (7,9,9,10,12,13,13,14,16,16,19,20,22)
15 Whitworth        157 (6,9,9,9,11,11,13,14,14,18,20,21,-)
16 WashU              139 (10,13,13,13,13,14,14,15,16,19,19,19,21)
17 RHIT                  121 (8,8,10,13,17,17,18,19,20,21,22,22,22)
18 Calvin                115 (9,12,13,14,17,17,18,18,18,20,20,21,-)
19 Wheaton           102 (12,13,14,14,15,18,18,19,20,21,22,24,-)
20 Ramapo *             93 (11,12,12,18,19,19,19,20,20,21,23,25,-)
21 UMHB                  82 (12,16,16,18,18,18,20,21,22,22,23,24,-)
22 RIC                     52 (16,17,19,19,21,22,23,23,24,24,-,-,-)
23 Cortland St.        40 (17,20,21,22,22,23,23,24,24,25,25,-,-)
24 Transy                 35 (14,17,21,23,24,24,25,25,-,-,-,-,-)
t25 Stevens             28 (17,20,23,23,24,25,25,25,25,25,-,-,-)
t25 MIT                    28 (17,18,21,23,24,25,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)

27 UW-Stout            23 (11,18)
28 Randolph            16 (13,23)
29 Alvernia              12 17,23)
30 Concordia TX        5 (23,24)
t31 Augie                  4 (22)
t31 St. Norbert         4 (22)
t31 Wesley               4 (22)
34 Emory                  2 (24)
t35 OWU                  1
t35 Thomas More     1
I can never remember having so many outliers, but I have never predicted all 26 of the members of a Top 25!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 17, 2013, 08:48:12 PM
Mine is in.  Lots of teams lost down the stretch.  Must be season-fatigue getting to them..
Thanks Mr Ypsi!  +1!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 17, 2013, 09:45:47 PM
Just sent mine in.  I think I'm going to have a bunch of outliers this week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 18, 2013, 01:50:37 PM

Just sent mine in.  It's a royal mess.

Are we doing one more next week or will we wait until after the tournament?

Whenever the next one is, I'll be going back to the beginning and picking teams from scratch.  It's been a crazy season.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 18, 2013, 02:10:40 PM
Mines in
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 18, 2013, 02:22:41 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 18, 2013, 01:50:37 PM

Just sent mine in.  It's a royal mess.

Are we doing one more next week or will we wait until after the tournament?

Whenever the next one is, I'll be going back to the beginning and picking teams from scratch.  It's been a crazy season.

Well do next week, then wait 'til after the tourney.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 18, 2013, 03:44:04 PM
traveling. May be tonight or tomorrow.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 18, 2013, 04:52:13 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 18, 2013, 03:44:04 PM
traveling. May be tonight or tomorrow.
Thanks for the heads up!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 18, 2013, 08:08:04 PM
Weird coincidence (or was it predestined? ;)):  two voters have double-listed a team this week - in both cases the team was Calvin!

Knightslappy, quit messin' with my panel! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 18, 2013, 08:14:42 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 18, 2013, 08:08:04 PM
Weird coincidence (or was it predestined? ;)):  two voters have double-listed a team this week - in both cases the team was Calvin!

Knightslappy, quit messin' with my panel! ;D

Weird that (1) two voters double listed, (2) that both times it was Calvin, and (3) that it wasn't me, the Calvin voter, doing it!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 18, 2013, 08:45:55 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 18, 2013, 08:14:42 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 18, 2013, 08:08:04 PM
Weird coincidence (or was it predestined? ;)):  two voters have double-listed a team this week - in both cases the team was Calvin!

Knightslappy, quit messin' with my panel! ;D

Weird that (1) two voters double listed, (2) that both times it was Calvin, and (3) that it wasn't me, the Calvin voter, doing it!

Right.  I figure if YOU ever do it, you'll list Calvin 25 times! ;D  (Or maybe just 24, then list Hope as #25 to really rub it in!)

(Interestingly, the two voters chose very different resolutions.  The first had also forgotten a team he meant to vote for, so replaced one of the Calvin votes with that team.  The other did the more usual resolution - dropped the second Calvin listing, raised all teams below that one slot, and voted a new #25.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 18, 2013, 10:50:37 PM
Those voters are using Freewill!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 19, 2013, 09:35:47 AM
Quote from: smedindy on February 18, 2013, 10:50:37 PM
Those voters are using Freewill!

Or so they think...
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 19, 2013, 04:21:19 PM
We've been stalled on ten ballots for nearly 24 hours now - I sure hope there are more in development! ;)

I'd like to get the poll up by 8 or 9 (EST), but will hold it if assured that more ballots WILL be coming later.

There are currently several very tight races, and at least one tie, so your ballot WILL make a difference.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 19, 2013, 04:34:55 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 19, 2013, 04:21:19 PM
We've been stalled on ten ballots for nearly 24 hours now - I sure hope there are more in development! ;)

I'd like to get the poll up by 8 or 9 (EST), but will hold it if assured that more ballots WILL be coming later.

There are currently several very tight races, and at least one tie, so your ballot WILL make a difference.

List Calvin early and often.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 19, 2013, 04:53:35 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 19, 2013, 04:34:55 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 19, 2013, 04:21:19 PM
We've been stalled on ten ballots for nearly 24 hours now - I sure hope there are more in development! ;)

I'd like to get the poll up by 8 or 9 (EST), but will hold it if assured that more ballots WILL be coming later.

There are currently several very tight races, and at least one tie, so your ballot WILL make a difference.

List Calvin early and often.

You must be a Chicago politician. ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 19, 2013, 07:18:34 PM
And sac brings us to eleven.  Haven't heard from algernon, magicman (been very sick, but has occasionally posted), or John Gleich (back in town and back in the loop?), so I'll hold off a while longer.

Since IWU @ NCC starts @ 8 (EST), don't necessarily expect a poll before c. 11! ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 19, 2013, 07:45:46 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 19, 2013, 07:18:34 PM
And sac brings us to eleven.  Haven't heard from algernon, magicman (been very sick, but has occasionally posted), or John Gleich (back in town and back in the loop?), so I'll hold off a while longer.

Since IWU @ NCC starts @ 8 (EST), don't necessarily expect a poll before c. 11! ;)

Chuck,
I'm starting my poll this minute so I'll get one in to you.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 19, 2013, 11:41:31 PM
Just sent mine in, my apologies for being so late.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 20, 2013, 12:34:54 AM
I have tallied magicman's ballot as #12, but am too tired to publish the poll this evening (morning).  Besides, if I wait 'til tomorrow, maybe I'll get one from algernon or John Gleich (or whomever)!

Poll up around noon tomorrow.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 20, 2013, 05:31:58 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 20, 2013, 12:34:54 AM
I have tallied magicman's ballot as #12, but am too tired to publish the poll this evening (morning).  Besides, if I wait 'til tomorrow, maybe I'll get one from algernon or John Gleich (or whomever)!

Poll up around noon tomorrow.

Too tired or too depressed after IWU loss?  :'(  ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 20, 2013, 12:00:41 PM
POSTERS' POLL (thru games of 2-17-13)

1.  St. Thomas     323 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2)
2.  IWU               302 (2,2,2,2,2,2,3,3,3,3,3,4,5)
3.  Amherst         289 (1,1,2,3,3,3,3,4,4,6,6,6,7)
4.  NCC               287 (2,2,3,3,3,4,4,4,4,5,5,6,6)
5.  UWSP             258 (2,4,4,5,5,6,6,7,7,7,7,10,10)
6.  UWW              237 (3,5,5,5,7,8,8,8,9,9,11,11,12)
7.  Midd               223 (2,4,5,5,7,7,8,8,8,9,14,15,23)
8.  Whitworth       212 (5,7,8,8,9,9,9,10,11,11,11,12,16)
9.  Williams          204 (4,6,6,6,8,9,9,10,11,13,14,18,20)
10  Catholic          203 (4,6,8,8,9,9,10,11,11,13,14,15,17)
11  Rochester       179 (7,7,8,10,10,12,12,12,12,13,16,16,24)
12  St. Mary's       166 (7,9,11,12,12,12,13,13,13,16,17,17,20)
13  WPI                164 (4,5,6,9,10,10,12,14,15,17,20,-,-)
14  HSC                158 (5,6,7,11,14,14,16,16,16,16,18,19,22)
15  Calvin             144 (8,10,13,14,14,14,14,15,15,15,17,19,-)
16  Wheaton         136 (9,10,13,13,13,15,15,18,18,18,18,20,22)
17  Wooster          123 (10,11,12,13,15,16,16,18,18,19,20,21,-)
18  WashU             95 (10,14,17,17,17,18,19,20,21,22,22,23,23)
19  RIC                  92 (12,12,13,17,17,18,19,19,20,21,-,-,-)
20  MIT                  73 (13,14,15,16,19,20,20,22,23,25,-,-,-)
21  RHIT                62 (16,17,17,19,19,21,21,22,23,24,25,-,-)
22  Ramapo            51 (11,16,18,19,21,22,24,-,-,-,-,-,-)
23  UMHB               47 (17,18,20,21,22,22,22,23,24,24,-,-,-)
24  Va Wes             40 (15,15,21,21,23,23,23,25,-,-,-,-,-)
25  Cortland St        23 (18,21,23,24,24,25,25,25,-,-,-,-,-)

26  UW-Stout           22 (11,19)
27  Alvernia             21 (19,19,20,25)
28  Augie                 18 (14,20)
29  Transy               15 (15,22)
30  OWU                  10 (20,24,25,25)
31  Stevens               9 (22,24,24,25)
t32 St. Norbert           7 (21,24)
t32 Wesley                7 (22,23)
t34 Concordia TX       5 (21)
t34 Emory                 5 (23,24)
t34 UW-Platteville      5 (21)
37  Scranton             3 (23)
38  Salisbury             2 (24)
t39 Albright               1
t39 Springfield           1
t39 Westfield St         1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 20, 2013, 01:13:32 PM


POSTERS' POLL (thru games of 2-17-13)

1.  St. Thomas     323 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2)
2.  IWU               302 (2,2,2,2,2,2,3,3,3,3,3,4,5)
3.  Amherst         289 (1,1,2,3,3,3,3,4,4,6,6,6,7)
4.  NCC               287 (2,2,3,3,3,4,4,4,4,5,5,6,6)
5.  UWSP             258 (2,4,4,5,5,6,6,7,7,7,7,10,10)
6.  UWW              237 (3,5,5,5,7,8,8,8,9,9,11,11,12)
7.  Midd               223 (2,4,5,5,7,7,8,8,8,9,14,15,23)
8.  Whitworth       212 (5,7,8,8,9,9,9,10,11,11,11,12,16)
9.  Williams          204 (4,6,6,6,8,9,9,10,11,13,14,18,20)
10  Catholic          203 (4,6,8,8,9,9,10,11,11,13,14,15,17)
11  Rochester       179 (7,7,8,10,10,12,12,12,12,13,16,16,24)
12  St. Mary's       166 (7,9,11,12,12,12,13,13,13,16,17,17,20)
13  WPI                164 (4,5,6,9,10,10,12,14,15,17,20,-,-)
14  HSC*                158 (5,6,7,11,14,14,16,16,16,16,18,19,22)
15  Calvin             144 (8,10,13,14,14,14,14,15,15,15,17,19,-)
16  Wheaton         136 (9,10,13,13,13,15,15,18,18,18,18,20,22)
17  Wooster          123 (10,11,12,13,15,16,16,18,18,19,20,21,-)
18  WashU             95 (10,14,17,17,17,18,19,20,21,22,22,23,23)
19  RIC                  92 (12,12,13,17,17,18,19,19,20,21,-,-,-)
20  MIT                  73 (13,14,15,16,19,20,20,22,23,25,-,-,-)
21  RHIT                62 (16,17,17,19,19,21,21,22,23,24,25,-,-)
22  Ramapo            51 (11,16,18,19,21,22,24,-,-,-,-,-,-)
23  UMHB               47 (17,18,20,21,22,22,22,23,24,24,-,-,-)
24  Va Wes             40 (15,15,21,21,23,23,23,25,-,-,-,-,-)
25  Cortland St        23 (18,21,23,24,24,25,25,25,-,-,-,-,-)

26  UW-Stout           22 (11,19)
27  Alvernia             21 (19,19,20,25)
28  Augie                 18 (14,20)
29  Transy               15 (15,22)
30  OWU*                  10 (20,24,25,25)
31  Stevens               9 (22,24,24,25)
t32 St. Norbert           7 (21,24)
t32 Wesley                7 (22,23)
t34 Concordia TX       5 (21)
t34 Emory                 5 (23,24)
t34 UW-Platteville      5 (21)
37  Scranton             3 (23)
38  Salisbury             2 (24)
t39 Albright               1
t39 Springfield           1
t39 Westfield St*         1

Didn't have as many outliers as I thought.  Pretty sure I'd be the only one who swapped Amherst and St. Thomas, but luckily someone agreed with me.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 20, 2013, 02:18:00 PM
One voter in the real poll did too. ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 20, 2013, 04:00:19 PM
My ballot

POSTERS' POLL (thru games of 2-17-13)

1.  St. Thomas     323 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2)
2.  IWU               302 (2,2,2,2,2,2,3,3,3,3,3,4,5)
3.  Amherst         289 (1,1,2,3,3,3,3,4,4,6,6,6,7)
4.  NCC               287 (2,2,3,3,3,4,4,4,4,5,5,6,6)
5.  UWSP             258 (2,4,4,5,5,6,6,7,7,7,7,10,10)

6.  UWW              237 (3,5,5,5,7,8,8,8,9,9,11,11,12)
7.  Midd               223 (2,4,5,5,7,7,8,8,8,9,14,15,23)
8.  Whitworth       212 (5,7,8,8,9,9,9,10,11,11,11,12,16)
9.  Williams*          204 (4,6,6,6,8,9,9,10,11,13,14,18,20)
10  Catholic          203 (4,6,8,8,9,9,10,11,11,13,14,15,17)

11  Rochester       179 (7,7,8,10,10,12,12,12,12,13,16,16,24)
12  St. Mary's       166 (7,9,11,12,12,12,13,13,13,16,17,17,20)
13  WPI                164 (4,5,6,9,10,10,12,14,15,17,20,-,-)
14  HSC                158 (5,6,7,11,14,14,16,16,16,16,18,19,22)
15  Calvin             144 (8,10,13,14,14,14,14,15,15,15,17,19,-)

16  Wheaton         136 (9,10,13,13,13,15,15,18,18,18,18,20,22)
17  Wooster          123 (10,11,12,13,15,16,16,18,18,19,20,21,-)
18  WashU             95 (10,14,17,17,17,18,19,20,21,22,22,23,23)
19  RIC                  92 (12,12,13,17,17,18,19,19,20,21,-,-,-)
20  MIT                  73 (13,14,15,16,19,20,20,22,23,25,-,-,-)

21  RHIT                62 (16,17,17,19,19,21,21,22,23,24,25,-,-)
22  Ramapo            51 (11,16,18,19,21,22,24,-,-,-,-,-,-)
23  UMHB               47 (17,18,20,21,22,22,22,23,24,24,-,-,-)
24  Va Wes             40 (15,15,21,21,23,23,23,25,-,-,-,-,-)
25  Cortland St        23 (18,21,23,24,24,25,25,25,-,-,-,-,-)

26  UW-Stout           22 (11,19)
27  Alvernia             21 (19,19,20,25)
28  Augie                 18 (14,20)
29  Transy               15 (15,22)
30  OWU                  10 (20,24,25,25)
31  Stevens               9 (22,24,24,25)
t32 St. Norbert           7 (21,24)
t32 Wesley                7 (22,23)
t34 Concordia TX       5 (21)
t34 Emory                 5 (23,24)
t34 UW-Platteville      5 (21)
37  Scranton             3 (23)
38  Salisbury             2 (24)
t39 Albright               1
t39 Springfield           1
t39 Westfield St         1


Only Williams as an outlier, but that is not much of an outlier in the Top 10 that took some hits last week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 20, 2013, 10:25:14 PM
I'll go ahead and toss my ballot out there.  I had all 25 who finished in the standings, though sometimes in rather different locations:

POSTERS' POLL (thru games of 2-17-13)

1.  St. Thomas     323 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2)
2.  IWU               302 (2,2,2,2,2,2,3,3,3,3,3,4,5)
3.  Amherst         289 (1,1,2,3,3,3,3,4,4,6,6,6,7)
4.  NCC               287 (2,2,3,3,3,4,4,4,4,5,5,6,6)
5.  UWSP             258 (2,4,4,5,5,6,6,7,7,7,7,10,10)
6.  UWW              237 (3,5,5,5,7,8,8,8,9,9,11,11,12)
7.  Midd               223 (2,4,5,5,7,7,8,8,8,9,14,15,23)
8.  Whitworth       212 (5,7,8,8,9,9,9,10,11,11,11,12,16)
9.  Williams          204 (4,6,6,6,8,9,9,10,11,13,14,18,20)
10  Catholic          203 (4,6,8,8,9,9,10,11,11,13,14,15,17)
11  Rochester       179 (7,7,8,10,10,12,12,12,12,13,16,16,24)
12  St. Mary's       166 (7,9,11,12,12,12,13,13,13,16,17,17,20)
13  WPI                164 (4,5,6,9,10,10,12,14,15,17,20,-,-)
14  HSC                158 (5,6,7,11,14,14,16,16,16,16,18,19,22)
15  Calvin             144 (8,10,13,14,14,14,14,15,15,15,17,19,-)
16  Wheaton         136 (9,10,13,13,13,15,15,18,18,18,18,20,22)
17  Wooster          123 (10,11,12,13,15,16,16,18,18,19,20,21,-)
18  WashU             95 (10,14,17,17,17,18,19,20,21,22,22,23,23)
19  RIC                  92 (12,12,13,17,17,18,19,19,20,21,-,-,-)
20  MIT                  73 (13,14,15,16,19,20,20,22,23,25,-,-,-)
21  RHIT                62 (16,17,17,19,19,21,21,22,23,24,25,-,-)
22  Ramapo            51 (11,16,18,19,21,22,24,-,-,-,-,-,-)
23  UMHB               47 (17,18,20,21,22,22,22,23,24,24,-,-,-)
24  Va Wes             40 (15,15,21,21,23,23,23,25,-,-,-,-,-)
25  Cortland St        23 (18,21,23,24,24,25,25,25,-,-,-,-,-)

26  UW-Stout           22 (11,19)
27  Alvernia             21 (19,19,20,25)
28  Augie                 18 (14,20)
29  Transy               15 (15,22)
30  OWU                  10 (20,24,25,25)
31  Stevens               9 (22,24,24,25)
t32 St. Norbert           7 (21,24)
t32 Wesley                7 (22,23)
t34 Concordia TX       5 (21)
t34 Emory                 5 (23,24)
t34 UW-Platteville      5 (21)
37  Scranton             3 (23)
38  Salisbury             2 (24)
t39 Albright               1
t39 Springfield           1
t39 Westfield St         1

Actually, I now notice I had 9 exactly where they landed, and several more only 1 or 2 off - call me 'Captain Conformity'! :-[  (Hey!  Someone's gotta balance all these claimants to 'Captain Outlier'! ;D)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 21, 2013, 05:13:11 AM
1.  St. Thomas     323 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2)
2.  IWU*              302 (2,2,2,2,2,2,3,3,3,3,3,4,5)
3.  Amherst         289 (1,1,2,3,3,3,3,4,4,6,6,6,7)
4.  NCC               287 (2,2,3,3,3,4,4,4,4,5,5,6,6)
5.  UWSP             258 (2,4,4,5,5,6,6,7,7,7,7,10,10)
6.  UWW              237 (3,5,5,5,7,8,8,8,9,9,11,11,12)
7.  Midd*              223 (2,4,5,5,7,7,8,8,8,9,14,15,23)
8.  Whitworth       212 (5,7,8,8,9,9,9,10,11,11,11,12,16)
9.  Williams          204 (4,6,6,6,8,9,9,10,11,13,14,18,20)
10  Catholic          203 (4,6,8,8,9,9,10,11,11,13,14,15,17)
11  Rochester       179 (7,7,8,10,10,12,12,12,12,13,16,16,24)
12  St. Mary's       166 (7,9,11,12,12,12,13,13,13,16,17,17,20)
13  WPI                164 (4,5,6,9,10,10,12,14,15,17,20,-,-)
14  HSC                158 (5,6,7,11,14,14,16,16,16,16,18,19,22)
15  Calvin             144 (8,10,13,14,14,14,14,15,15,15,17,19,-)
16  Wheaton         136 (9,10,13,13,13,15,15,18,18,18,18,20,22)
17  Wooster          123 (10,11,12,13,15,16,16,18,18,19,20,21,-)
18  WashU*           95 (10,14,17,17,17,18,19,20,21,22,22,23,23)
19  RIC                  92 (12,12,13,17,17,18,19,19,20,21,-,-,-)
20  MIT                  73 (13,14,15,16,19,20,20,22,23,25,-,-,-)
21  RHIT*               62 (16,17,17,19,19,21,21,22,23,24,25,-,-)
22  Ramapo            51 (11,16,18,19,21,22,24,-,-,-,-,-,-)
23  UMHB               47 (17,18,20,21,22,22,22,23,24,24,-,-,-)
24  Va Wes             40 (15,15,21,21,23,23,23,25,-,-,-,-,-)
25  Cortland St        23 (18,21,23,24,24,25,25,25,-,-,-,-,-)

26  UW-Stout           22 (11,19)
27  Alvernia             21 (19,19,20,25)
28  Augie                 18 (14,20)
29  Transy               15 (15,22)
30  OWU                  10 (20,24,25,25)
31  Stevens*             9 (22,24,24,25)
t32 St. Norbert           7 (21,24)
t32 Wesley                7 (22,23)
t34 Concordia TX       5 (21)
t34 Emory                 5 (23,24)
t34 UW-Platteville      5 (21)
37  Scranton             3 (23)
38  Salisbury             2 (24)
t39 Albright               1
t39 Springfield           1
t39 Westfield St         1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 22, 2013, 10:05:22 PM

For the record, this is why I kept voting Augie so high.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 22, 2013, 10:14:40 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 22, 2013, 10:05:22 PM

For the record, this is why I kept voting Augie so high.

Augie IS a good team, but this was mainly on the Titans.  They shot 25% from the field overall, and 20% from downtown (and were WORSE in the second half).  SOME of that was Augie's defense, but they blew an awful lot of open looks and 'bunnies'. By far the worst offensive showing of the year from by far the best offensive team in the CCIW. :P
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 24, 2013, 01:09:31 AM
Our we doing a poll this week??  I've been totally out of the loop this past week, it may take me a while to send one in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 24, 2013, 01:52:39 AM
Quote from: 7express on February 24, 2013, 01:09:31 AM
Our we doing a poll this week??  I've been totally out of the loop this past week, it may take me a while to send one in.

YES!  (Then no polls 'til the tourney is done.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 24, 2013, 09:52:26 PM
Just sent mine in.  Most of the teams from last week I kept in, just shuffled the order.  Added a few new ones at the bottom.  Wasn't as difficult as I thought it would be (mainly because most of the losses ranked teams had were in the semi's or finals against highly ranked teams so you couldn't drop them THAT far, imho).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2013, 10:54:25 AM

Sent mine in.  Usually I'm enthralled with the good teams from lesser conferences, however, this year it seems like the power conference teams have proved themselves a cut above.

I've got Catholic probably too high, but other than that, it's all ODAC, CCIW, WIAC, NESCAC.

I'm looking forward to starting from scratch after the tournament, with a little more perspective.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 25, 2013, 06:38:36 PM
I know it's a busy time (and many voters are participating in the Fantasy draft), but please don't forget a ballot!  Been stuck on seven for quite a few hours now.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 26, 2013, 05:44:24 PM
We've now reached ten - less than I hope for, but more than I feared with all that goes on once the tourney is about to start.  I'll probably go with it about 9:30 or 10 unless someone requests more time.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 27, 2013, 12:53:34 AM
My apologies, I suppose the poll is late because of me.  I told Ypsi about 9 oclock I'd have a poll for him and then got busy doing other stuff and just realized I left him hanging a few minutes ago.

Totally on me. :-[
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 27, 2013, 04:15:15 AM
I've sent my poll in now that I discovered we were doing one this week. Sorry to be so late but I think I got it in before you tallied them up. ???
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 27, 2013, 05:18:32 AM
Quote from: sac on February 27, 2013, 12:53:34 AM
My apologies, I suppose the poll is late because of me.  I told Ypsi about 9 oclock I'd have a poll for him and then got busy doing other stuff and just realized I left him hanging a few minutes ago.

Totally on me. :-[
I think Old Man Ypsi probably fell asleep in his chair watching reruns of Matlock ;) I bet it's up before noon... but he might stall some more since ballots have continued to trickle in overnight ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 27, 2013, 06:06:58 AM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 27, 2013, 05:18:32 AM
Quote from: sac on February 27, 2013, 12:53:34 AM
My apologies, I suppose the poll is late because of me.  I told Ypsi about 9 oclock I'd have a poll for him and then got busy doing other stuff and just realized I left him hanging a few minutes ago.

Totally on me. :-[
I think Old Man Ypsi probably fell asleep in his chair watching reruns of Matlock ;) I bet it's up before noon... but he might stall some more since ballots have continued to trickle in overnight ;D

Well he was up well after midnight and still posting  but was probably fast asleep when I sent him my poll at  4:10 AM  this morning. That will help make his day when he wakes up and sees a couple of more ballots from sac and me. 8-)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 27, 2013, 10:03:10 AM
Indeed, I held off 'til I got sac's ballot, then figured it was already well past midnight so might as well wait 'til morning and see what happens!  Glad I did!  I'll tally and post before noon.  Last chance for any latecomers.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 27, 2013, 11:41:05 AM
POSTERS' POLL (thru games of 2-24-13):

1.  St. Thomas     299 (nearly unanimous, one 2)
2.  Amherst         279 (1,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,3,4,4,7)
3.  NCC               271 (2,2,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,4,7)
4.  UWW             255 (2,2,3,3,4,5,5,6,6,6,7,8)
5.  IWU               221 (4,5,6,6,6,6,7,8,9,9,10,17)
6.  Whitworth      218 (5,5,5,5,6,6,8,8,10,10,11,15)
7.  UWSP            209 (4,5,5,7,8,9,10,10,10,11,11,13)
8.  Catholic         203 (4,4,5,6,7,7,9,9,11,12,12,23)
9.  Williams         201 (3,5,6,7,7,8,8,10,11,14,15,17)
10. Midd             179 (4,7,8,8,9,9,9,9,11,15,18,-)
11. St. Mary's      167 (4,6,10,10,11,11,12,12,13,17,18,21)
12. WPI               160 (4,4,7,7,8,8,12,14,16,20,-,-)
13. Calvin            152 (8,9,12,12,12,13,13,13,14,14,14,-)
14. Rochester       122 (9,13,13,14,15,15,16,16,18,18,20,23)
t15 HSC               111 (5,10,11,14,16,17,18,19,21,22,22,-)
t15 Wheaton         111 (10,10,11,13,14,18,19,19,20,20,21,-)
17. WashU            109 (12,13,13,15,15,16,17,17,21,21,21,22)
18. RIC                  91 (12,12,14,16,16,17,18,19,19,-,-,-)
19. Wooster           89 (11,14,15,16,16,17,19,20,20,21,22,-)
20. RHIT                87 (14,15,16,17,17,18,19,19,22,22,23,23)
21. Ramapo           54 (11,15,17,20,21,22,23,25,-,-,-,-)
22. MIT                  39 (15,19,20,21,21,24,24,25,-,-,-,-)
t23 Cortland St.      37 (16,20,21,22,23,24,24,24,25,25,25,-)
t23 OWU                37 (17,18,19,20,23,24,24,-,-,-,-,-)
t23 Va Wes             37 (13,16,20,23,23,25,25,-,-,-,-,-)

26. Alvernia            26 (18,18,19,23)
27. Augie                25 (12,15)
28. UMHB               22 (20,22,22,23,24,25,25,25)
29. Randy Mac        21 (14,22,23,24)
30. UW-Platteville    19 (9,24)
31. UW-Stout          13 (13)
32. St. Norbert        12 (18,22)
33. Concordia TX     11 (20,24,24,25)
34. Emory                7 (19)
35. Wesley               5 (21)
36. Juniata               1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 27, 2013, 01:55:36 PM
1.  St. Thomas*     299 (nearly unanimous, one 2).  Gee, I guess who that one was....
2.  Amherst         279 (1,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,3,4,4,7)
3.  NCC               271 (2,2,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,4,7)
4.  UWW             255 (2,2,3,3,4,5,5,6,6,6,7,8)
5.  IWU               221 (4,5,6,6,6,6,7,8,9,9,10,17)
6.  Whitworth      218 (5,5,5,5,6,6,8,8,10,10,11,15)
7.  UWSP            209 (4,5,5,7,8,9,10,10,10,11,11,13)
8.  Catholic         203 (4,4,5,6,7,7,9,9,11,12,12,23)
9.  Williams         201 (3,5,6,7,7,8,8,10,11,14,15,17)
10. Midd             179 (4,7,8,8,9,9,9,9,11,15,18,-)
11. St. Mary's      168 (4,6,10,10,11,11,12,12,12,17,18,21). 
12. WPI               160 (4,4,7,7,8,8,12,14,16,20,-,-)
13. Calvin            152 (8,9,12,12,12,13,13,13,14,14,14,-)
14. Rochester       122 (9,13,13,14,15,15,16,16,18,18,20,23)
t15 HSC               111 (5,10,11,14,16,17,18,19,21,22,22,-)
t15 Wheaton         111 (10,10,11,13,14,18,19,19,20,20,21,-)
17. WashU            109 (12,13,13,15,15,16,17,17,21,21,21,22)
18. RIC                  90 (12,13,14,16,16,17,18,19,19,-,-,-)
19. Wooster           89 (11,14,15,16,16,17,19,20,20,21,22,-)
20. RHIT                87 (14,15,16,17,17,18,19,19,22,22,23,23)
21. Ramapo           54 (11,15,17,20,21,22,23,25,-,-,-,-)
22. MIT                  39 (15,19,20,21,21,24,24,25,-,-,-,-)
t23 Cortland St.      37 (16,20,21,22,23,24,24,24,25,25,25,-)
t23 OWU                37 (17,18,19,20,23,24,24,-,-,-,-,-)
t23 Va Wes             37 (13,16,20,23,23,25,25,-,-,-,-,-)

26. Alvernia            26 (18,18,19,23)
27. Augie                25 (12,15)
28. UMHB               22 (20,22,22,23,24,25,25,25)
29. Randy Mac        21 (14,22,23,24)
30. UW-Platteville    19 (9,24)
31. UW-Stout          13 (13)
32. St. Norbert        12 (18,22)
33. Concordia TX     11 (20,24,24,25)
34. Emory                7 (19)
35. Wesley               5 (21)
36. Juniata               1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 27, 2013, 02:10:10 PM
7, your ballot was slightly confusing, because your numbering went 10,11,13,12,14.  I took that as you either flunked first grade ;D, or had changed your mind on St. Mary's and RIC.  I tallied it by the number next to the name, so 12 was St. Mary's, 13 was RIC.  Sorry if that was not your intention, but matters not.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 27, 2013, 02:21:03 PM
Actually I screwed the numbering.  St. Mary's was 12, RIC was 13, I'll go change that.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 27, 2013, 02:23:49 PM
Quote from: 7express on February 27, 2013, 02:21:03 PM
Actually I screwed the numbering.  St. Mary's was 12, RIC was 13, I'll go change that.

OK, I'll change the poll to reflect your intention.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 23, 2013, 08:17:06 PM

Time to begin the long slog of compiling the final poll.

I'll go back through the conferences and try to do this based on the entire body of work.  This is the same way I do the first poll of the year.  Funnily enough, when I did my first run-through, there was one team that I ranked pretty highly that didn't match up with what the polls and metrics were saying.  That team... Mary Hardin-Baylor.

Should be fun.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 23, 2013, 09:22:27 PM
A somehow suspect UMHB will make a bit of a jump from the #28 they had in our final regular season poll! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on March 23, 2013, 10:05:22 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 23, 2013, 08:17:06 PM

Time to begin the long slog of compiling the final poll.

I'll go back through the conferences and try to do this based on the entire body of work.  This is the same way I do the first poll of the year.  Funnily enough, when I did my first run-through, there was one team that I ranked pretty highly that didn't match up with what the polls and metrics were saying.  That team... Mary Hardin-Baylor.

Should be fun.

Back on the January 13th Posters' Poll I had Mary Hardin-Baylor cracking my Top 25. They were tied for last in our poll that week at #36 with 2 points. One other voter had also given them a #25 placement. Was that you?

I continued to rank them through the end of the regular season.  I'm not surprised at how well they've played. I saw them play twice online and they looked good in both games that I watched against 2 of the better teams in their conference.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 23, 2013, 10:38:45 PM
Quote from: magicman on March 23, 2013, 10:05:22 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 23, 2013, 08:17:06 PM

Time to begin the long slog of compiling the final poll.

I'll go back through the conferences and try to do this based on the entire body of work.  This is the same way I do the first poll of the year.  Funnily enough, when I did my first run-through, there was one team that I ranked pretty highly that didn't match up with what the polls and metrics were saying.  That team... Mary Hardin-Baylor.

Should be fun.

Back on the January 13th Posters' Poll I had Mary Hardin-Baylor cracking my Top 25. They were tied for last in our poll that week at #36 with 2 points. One other voter had also given them a #25 placement. Was that you?

I continued to rank them through the end of the regular season.  I'm not surprised at how well they've played. I saw them play twice online and they looked good in both games that I watched against 2 of the better teams in their conference.

Crazy to think how good they'd be if they hadn't suffered through injuries.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 07, 2013, 02:36:42 PM

Mine's in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: frodotwo on April 07, 2013, 03:13:01 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on April 07, 2013, 02:36:42 PM

Mine's in.

ME 2
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 08, 2013, 12:41:59 PM
We've been stalled on four ballots for about 20 hours now.  I'm not nervous yet, but hope everyone remembers that we do do a final ballot.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on April 08, 2013, 04:11:48 PM
basketball season feels like it finished a month ago. :-X
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 08, 2013, 04:19:35 PM
Quote from: sac on April 08, 2013, 04:11:48 PM
basketball season feels like it finished a month ago. :-X

Hey, you're a big Michigan fan.  There is a grand finale to the season in about 5 hours! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on April 08, 2013, 08:30:02 PM
Just sent mine in. Wasn't nearly as hard as I thought it would be to finish the bottom of the ballot. In the end I basically had 26 teams to fill in the 25 spots.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 09, 2013, 08:38:41 PM
Only six ballots in, and none since yesterday.  Anyone out there planning to submit votes?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 09, 2013, 10:37:01 PM
The best I can do is tomorrow afternoon.  Sorry, forgot about it.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on April 09, 2013, 10:58:58 PM
Just sent mine in. Sorry I'm so late.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on April 10, 2013, 04:58:05 AM
Did you PM all the voters? I know I didn't get a PM by the time I sent mine in last night. Could be that some people need reminding that basketball season has finally officially ended
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 10, 2013, 07:01:03 PM
The only internet I have at work is my phone. I had issues with it today. So my poll won't be done until later tonight. Sorry for the delay.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 10, 2013, 07:39:06 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on April 10, 2013, 07:01:03 PM
The only internet I have at work is my phone. I had issues with it today. So my poll won't be done until later tonight. Sorry for the delay.

I'll wait.

Anyone else?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 10, 2013, 08:46:39 PM

So, would that put us at 8?  Eight's a decent number for the final poll, at least historically, isn't it?  Ten would be awesome.  Maybe you can get Pat to submit one on the sly.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on April 10, 2013, 08:56:57 PM
I'm in the middle of a move (a new job far away from Florida) so I haven't had a chance to even think about it! Sorry!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 10, 2013, 09:31:29 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on April 10, 2013, 08:46:39 PM

So, would that put us at 8?  Eight's a decent number for the final poll, at least historically, isn't it?  Ten would be awesome.  Maybe you can get Pat to submit one on the sly.

Yes.  Last year we fell to 8 (after 10 or 11 most weeks).  This year we often had 13, so I'd hoped for 10 or so.  Some voters lose interest after the finals (or figure the tourney already settled things, so why have a poll); this year might be worse because of the schedule.  As sac put it "basketball season feels like it ended a month ago". :P

Unless I hear from anyone else, the poll will go up reasonably soon after I hear from Greek.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 10, 2013, 11:19:39 PM
Sorry, a prior family obligation came up, didn't get to it. Feel free to post the results. Sorry to keep you waiting...unless you wanna wait another day  :-[
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 11, 2013, 07:23:50 AM
Wait on Greek, please.  What is another day or two?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 11, 2013, 08:59:42 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 11, 2013, 07:23:50 AM
Wait on Greek, please.  What is another day or two?
I agree.  So long as we have it before October, I'm good.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 11, 2013, 10:24:46 AM
Work is busy, but working on it now. It should be done by October...or around 10 am central time today.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 11, 2013, 10:50:23 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on April 11, 2013, 10:24:46 AM
Work is busy, but working on it now. It should be done by October...or around 10 am central time today.

No rush.  By then I'll be off to a bowling tourney, so I won't see it until late this afternoon anyway.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 11, 2013, 10:59:53 AM
Its in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 11, 2013, 03:43:14 PM
Final Posters' Poll, 2013:

1.  Amherst     200 (unanimous)
2.  St. Thomas  186 (2,2,2,2,3,3,4,4)
3.  NCC            182 (2,3,3,3,3,4,4,4)
4.  UMHB          176 (2,2,2,3,3,6,7,7)
5.  Williams       159 (5,5,5,5,6,6,8,9)
6.  St. Mary's     150 (5,5,7,7,7,8,9,10)
7.  IWU              149 (6,6,6,7,7,8,9,10)
8.  Calvin           139 (4,8,8,9,9,10,10,11)
9.  UWW            124 (4,5,9,10,12,13,13,18)
10 Midd             122 (4,5,6,9,11,15,16,20)
11 Whitworth     120 (8,9,10,10,11,11,12,17)
12 Cabrini          116 (6,7,8,11,12,12,16,20)
13 UWSP             90 (8,13,14,15,15,17,18,18)
t14 Catholic         83 (10,12,13,13,16,17,21,23)
t14 Wooster         83 (12,14,14,14,14,15,16,-)
16 VaWes            71 (11,12,15,15,17,20,21,-)
17 Wheaton         68 (11,11,17,18,19,20,22,22)
18 WashU            59 (14,15,18,18,19,21,22,22)
19 RandyMac        38 (12,16,16,22,-,-,-,-)
20 HSC                33 (14,16,22,23,24,24,-,-)
t21 Ithaca            29 (14,16,21,22,-,-,-,-)
t21 Morrisville       29 (13,21,21,23,25,25,-,-)
t21 WPI                29 (13,17,23,23,25,-,-,-)
24 Rochester         26 (18,19,20,21,-,-,-,-)
25 Cortland           21 (19,20,20,25,25,-,-,-)

t26 Concordia TX   17 (13,24,24)
t26 RIC                 17 (17,20,24)
28 Augie               16 (17,19)
29 OWU                15 (19,23,23,24)
30 UW-Platteville   11 (15)
t31 Alvernia            9 (19,25,25)
t31 Emory              9 (19,25,25)
33 UW-Stout          8 (18)
34 RHIT                 7 (22,23)
35 Wesley              5 (21)
36 St. Norbert        2 (24)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on April 11, 2013, 05:15:47 PM
1.  Amherst     200 (unan1mous)
2.  St. Thomas  186 (2,2,2,2,3,3,4,4)
3.  NCC            182 (2,3,3,3,3,4,4,4)
4.  UMHB          176 (2,2,2,3,3,6,7,7)
5.  Williams       159 (5,5,5,5,6,6,8,9)
6.  St. Mary's     150 (5,5,7,7,7,8,9,10)
7.  IWU              149 (6,6,6,7,7,8,9,10)
8.  Calvin           139 (4,8,8,9,9,10,10,11)
9.  UWW            124 (4,5,9,10,12,13,13,18)
10 Midd             122 (4,5,6,9,11,15,16,20)
11 Whitworth     120 (8,9,10,10,11,11,12,17)
12 Cabrini          116 (6,7,8,11,12,12,16,20)
13 UWSP             90 (8,13,14,15,15,17,18,18)
t14 Catholic         83 (10,12,13,13,16,17,21,23)
t14 Wooster         83 (12,14,14,14,14,15,16,-)
16 VaWes            71 (11,12,15,15,17,20,21,-) *was #26 for me*
17 Wheaton         68 (11,11,17,18,19,20,22,22)
18 WashU            59 (14,15,18,18,19,21,22,22)
19 RandyMac        38 (12,16,16,22,-,-,-,-)
20 HSC                33 (14,16,22,23,24,24,-,-)
t21 Ithaca            29 (14,16,21,22,-,-,-,-)
t21 Morrisville       29 (13,21,21,23,25,25,-,-)
t21 WPI                29 (13,17,23,23,25,-,-,-)
24 Rochester         26 (18,19,20,21,-,-,-,-)
25 Cortland           21 (19,20,20,25,25,-,-,-)

t26 Concordia TX   17 (13,24,24)
t26 RIC                 17 (17,20,24)
28 Augie               16 (17,19)
29 OWU                15 (19,23,23,24)
30 UW-Platteville   11 (15)
t31 Alvernia            9 (19,25,25)
t31 Emory              9 (19,25,25)
33 UW-Stout          8 (18)
34 RHIT                 7 (22,23)
35 Wesley              5 (21)
36 St. Norbert        2 (24)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 11, 2013, 06:59:41 PM
My picks  (in bold):  (Official Top 25 is in italics)

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on April 11, 2013, 03:43:14 PM
Final Posters' Poll, 2013:

1.  Amherst     200 (unan1mous)
2.  St. Thomas  186 (2,2,2,2,3,3,4,4)         Lost to the Finalist loser
3.  NCC            182 (2,3,3,3,3,4,4,4)           Gave cred to the CCIW and the loser to the Champ
4.  UMHB          176 (2,2,2,3,3,6,7,7)     Went 3-1 in Tourney vs. Top 10, & each game away from home!
5.  Williams       159 (5,5,5,5,6,6,8,9)          Cred to the NESCAC
6.  St. Mary's     150 (5,5,7,7,7,8,9,10)         Creditable season to the Elite 8; Top 15 since January
7.  IWU              149 (6,6,6,7,7,8,9,10)        Giving some cred to the CCIW
8.  Calvin           139 (4,8,8,9,9,10,10,11)  7     Giving cred to the Great Lakes
9.  UWW            124 (4,5,9,10,12,13,13,18)      Neither WIAC team made the Sweet 16
10 Midd             122 (4,5,6,9,11,15,16,20)   Didn't look very good tourney; won 3 tourney games by only 7 points!
11 Whitworth     120 (8,9,10,10,11,11,12,17)     Top 10 team all season
12 Cabrini          116 (6,7,8,11,12,12,16,20) 13 Elite 8; Beat H-SC (n), won at Ohio Wesleyan & at Wooster
13 UWSP             90 (8,13,14,15,15,17,18,18)     Neither WIAC team made the Sweet 16.
t14 Catholic         83 (10,12,13,13,16,17,21,23)    Top 10 team that lost at Williams
t14 Wooster         83 (12,14,14,14,14,15,16,-)     Lost to Cabrini at home.
16 VaWes            71 (11,12,15,15,17,20,21,-)  16   Lost at Williams
17 Wheaton         68 (11,11,17,18,19,20,22,22)   24    Barely edged St Norbert; lost at Tommies by 10.
18 WashU            59 (14,15,18,18,19,21,22,22)     Maybe a bit high, but definitely "teens"
19 RandyMac        38 (12,16,16,22,-,-,-,-)   17     Strong ODAC
20 HSC                33 (14,16,22,23,24,24,-,-)      Strong ODAC
t21 Ithaca            29 (14,16,21,22,-,-,-,-)    19     Strong showing into the Sweet 16
t21 Morrisville       29 (13,21,21,23,25,25,-,-)  20    Cinderella-East
t21 WPI                29 (13,17,23,23,25,x,-,-)   18      Handled by Randy Mac
24 Rochester         26 (18,19,20,21,x,-,-,-)  23        Faded at the end of the season
25 Cortland           21 (19,20,20,25,25,x,-,-)       On my watch list

t26 Concordia TX   17 (13,24,24)                       Went 2-3 versus Top 13 teams
t26 RIC                 17 (17,20,24)  21
28 Augie               16 (17,19)
29 OWU                15 (19,23,23,24)       25           Third best team in the Great Lakes
30 UW-Platteville   11 (15)
t31 Alvernia            9 (19,25,25)                       Third best team in the Mid-Atlantic
t31 Emory              9 (19,25,25)
33 UW-Stout          8 (18)
34 RHIT                 7 (22,23)
35 Wesley              5 (21)
36 St. Norbert        2 (24)

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 11, 2013, 07:58:36 PM
Final Posters' Poll, 2013:

1.  Amherst     200 (unanimous)
2.  St. Thomas  186 (2,2,2,2,3,3,4,4)
3.  NCC            182 (2,3,3,3,3,4,4,4)
4.  UMHB          176 (2,2,2,3,3,6,7,7)
5.  Williams       159 (5,5,5,5,6,6,8,9)
6.  St. Mary's     150 (5,5,7,7,7,8,9,10)
7.  IWU              149 (6,6,6,7,7,8,9,10)
8.  Calvin           139 (4,8,8,9,9,10,10,11)
9.  UWW            124 (4,5,9,10,12,13,13,18)
10 Midd             122 (4,5,6,9,11,15,16,20)
11 Whitworth     120 (8,9,10,10,11,11,12,17)
12 Cabrini          116 (6,7,8,11,12,12,16,20)
13 UWSP             90 (8,13,14,15,15,17,18,18)
t14 Catholic         83 (10,12,13,13,16,17,21,23)
t14 Wooster         83 (12,14,14,14,14,15,16,-)
16 VaWes            71 (11,12,15,15,17,20,21,-)
17 Wheaton         68 (11,11,17,18,19,20,22,22)
18 WashU            59 (14,15,18,18,19,21,22,22)
19 RandyMac        38 (12,16,16,22,X,-,-,-)
20 HSC                33 (14,16,22,23,24,24,-,-)
t21 Ithaca            29 (14,16,21,22,-,-,-,-)
t21 Morrisville       29 (13,21,21,23,24,25,-,-)
t21 WPI                29 (13,17,23,23,25,-,-,-)
24 Rochester         26 (18,19,20,21,-,-,-,-)
25 Cortland           21 (19,20,20,25,25,x,-,-)

t26 Concordia TX   17 (13,24,24)
t26 RIC                 17 (17,20,24)
28 Augie               16 (17,19)
29 OWU                15 (19,23,23,24)
30 UW-Platteville   11 (15)
t31 Alvernia            9 (19,25,25)
t31 Emory              9 (19,25,25)
33 UW-Stout          8 (18)
34 RHIT                 7 (22,23)
35 Wesley              5 (21)
36 St. Norbert        2 (24)

I shouldn't have waited for Greek - IWU was #6 until his ballot! ;D

I'm clear in my own mind with NCC at #2.  They had a clearly superior regular season to UMHB, both beat excellent teams in the tourney, both lost ONLY to #1 Amherst, but UMHB lost by more than twice as much as NCC.  As for the Tommies, I'd call their regular seasons a push (NCC's losses were at less than full strength, and the schedule was tougher), NCC's tourney road was almost certainly harder, UST lost to UMHB which lost to Amherst (by 17), NCC lost directly to Amherst (by 8).  As to UMHB/UST for #3, I'm ambivalent.  The Tommies clearly had the better overall resume, but the Cru won when it counted.  I decided to go with h-to-h for my ballot.

That 9-12 cluster is interesting.  All four had a huge spread in vote-placement; could have easily been a different ordering.

Since we eventually got tied in with the d1 tourney, I'd say Morrisville St. was definitely the Florida Gulf Coast of d3 (though without the Phi Slamma Jamma moves that made FCGU so endearing); UMHB was the Wichita St. (except they did them one round better). ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 11, 2013, 10:13:12 PM
Ypsi and I were close and/or similar on Cabrini, St Mary's MD, Calvin, UWW, Wooster, VWC, Wash U StL, Tommies, Ithaca...

Wow!  Next thing you know, I might see him at the local Tea Party Rally!  LOL!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 11, 2013, 10:19:31 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 11, 2013, 10:13:12 PM
Ypsi and I were close and/or similar on Cabrini, St Mary's MD, Calvin, UWW, Wooster, VWC, Wash U StL, Tommies, Ithaca...

Wow!  Next thing you know, I might see him at the local Tea Party Rally!  LOL!

How about if I meet you at a Green Party convention instead?!! ;D  (The only Tea Party Rally I would join would be the original one - and there are some who think I'm old enough that I could have! ;) ::))
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 12, 2013, 06:22:37 AM
I've always felt that my poll is a week-to-week poll, hence, WEEKLY poll.  So, when Team A beats Team B in Decemember, that doesn't mean Team A should automatically be ranked ahead of Team B in February.  This isn't directed at anyone specifically, but I think head-to-head can be overweighted a little especially when Team A could be 20-6 and Team B could be 23-3.  Team B could easily be ranked ahead of Team A, despite losing to them earlier in the year.  Team B could've beaten Team C and Team D on the road while Team A lost to those teams at home. 

Anway, time is at a premium when the 2-year old is running rampant and sometimes the wife needs all the help she can get.  I'll post my picks and irrational reasonings for said picks later...hopefully.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 12, 2013, 09:04:44 AM

Final Posters' Poll, 2013:

1.  Amherst     200 (unanimous)
2.  St. Thomas  186 (2,2,2,2,3,3,4,4)
3.  NCC            182 (2,3,3,3,3,4,4,4)
4.  UMHB          176 (2,2,2,3,3,6,7,7)
5.  Williams       159 (5,5,5,5,6,6,8,9)
6.  St. Mary's     150 (5,5,7,7,7,8,9,10)
7.  IWU              149 (6,6,6,7,7,8,9,10)
8.  Calvin           139 (4,8,8,9,9,10,10,11)
9.  UWW            124 (4,5,9,10,12,13,13,18)
10 Midd             122 (4,5,6,9,11,15,16,20)
11 Whitworth     120 (8,9,10,10,11,11,12,17)
12 Cabrini          116 (6,7,8,11,12,12,16,20)
13 UWSP             90 (8,13,14,15,15,17,18,18)
t14 Catholic         83 (10,12,13,13,16,17,21,23)
t14 Wooster         83 (12,14,14,14,14,15,16,-)
16 VaWes            71 (11,12,15,15,17,20,21,-)
17 Wheaton         68 (11,11,17,18,19,20,22,22)
18 WashU            59 (14,15,18,18,19,21,22,22)
19 RandyMac        38 (12,16,16,22,-,-,-,-)
20 HSC                33 (14,16,22,23,24,24,-,-)
t21 Ithaca            29 (14,16,21,22,-,-,-,-)
t21 Morrisville       29 (13,21,21,23,25,25,-,-)
t21 WPI                29 (13,17,23,23,25,-,-,-)
24 Rochester         26 (18,19,20,21,-,-,-,-)
25 Cortland           21 (19,20,20,25,25,-,-,-)

t26 Concordia TX   17 (13,24,24)
t26 RIC                 17 (17,20,24)
28 Augie               16 (17,19)
29 OWU                15 (19,23,23,24)
30 UW-Platteville   11 (15)
t31 Alvernia            9 (19,25,25)
t31 Emory              9 (19,25,25)
33 UW-Stout          8 (18)
34 RHIT                 7 (22,23)
35 Wesley              5 (21)
36 St. Norbert        2 (24)

I almost feel like I got #2 and #3 wrong.  I feel like NCC would be my pick in a head to head just because they were more physical - the lack of depth is an issue, though.  A real toss-up.

UMHB certainly peaked at the right time, but their team relied a lot on less than reliable skills - which showed itself to some degree in the final.  I struggled with whether to put them ahead of Williams or not - in the end, I let tournament wins decide that one.

I had the "correct" top nine albeit in a different order.  I went with Catholic at 10 because I decided not to let late season injuries affect my ballot.  If we're judging the best team this year, the majority of the year should count for something.  I didn't include the UMHB losses since they happened before the season, but St. Mary's especially, but also Catholic got the benefit of the doubt.  Stevens Point was sort of in the middle.

I don't understand how someone could leave Wooster off completely.  I'm generally a COW hater, and while they were clearly not elite, they were very, very good.  I thought they were better than Cabrini, even if they lost the tournament game.

I did end up with a good number of outliers, but as much as I hated my polls during the season, I'm quite happy with the final poll.

For the record, my "considered, but not ranked" list contained: WPI, Transy, CNU, St. Norbert, Rochester, Ithaca, Hanover, Redlands, MIT, Stevens, Springfield, Salisbury, and Concordia (TX).

I never thought RIC was very good and Morrisville beating them didn't prove anything to me.  That part of the bracket was insanely weak.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 12, 2013, 06:09:06 PM

Final Posters' Poll, 2013:

1.  Amherst     200 (unan1mous)
2.  St. Thomas  186 (2,2,2,2,3,3,4,4)
3.  NCC            182 (2,3,3,3,3,4,4,4)
4.  UMHB          176 (2,2,2,3,3,6,7,7)
5.  Williams       159 (5,5,5,5,6,6,8,9)
6.  St. Mary's     150 (5,5,7,7,7,8,9,10)
7.  IWU              149 (6,6,6,7,7,8,9,10)
8.  Calvin           139 (4,8,8,9,9,10,10,11)
9.  UWW            124 (4,5,9,10,12,13,13,18)
10 Midd             122 (4,5,6,9,11,15,16,20)
11 Whitworth     120 (8,9,10,10,11,11,12,17)
12 Cabrini          116 (6,7,8,11,12,12,16,20)
13 UWSP             90 (8,13,14,15,15,17,18,18)
t14 Catholic         83 (10,12,13,13,16,17,21,23)
t14 Wooster         83 (12,14,14,14,14,15,16,-)
16 VaWes            71 (11,12,15,15,17,20,21,-)
17 Wheaton         68 (11,11,17,18,19,20,22,22)
18 WashU            59 (14,15,18,18,19,21,22,22)
19 RandyMac        38 (12,16,16,22,-,-,-,-)
20 HSC                33 (14,16,22,23,24,24,-,-)
t21 Ithaca            29 (14,16,21,22,-,-,-,-)
t21 Morrisville       29 (13,21,21,23,25,25,-,-)
t21 WPI                29 (13,17,23,23,25,-,-,-)
24 Rochester         26 (18,19,20,21,-,-,-,-)
25 Cortland           21 (19,20,20,25,25,-,-,-)

t26 Concordia TX   17 (13,24,24)
t26 RIC                 17 (17,20,24)
28 Augie               16 (17,19)
29 OWU                15 (19,23,23,24)
30 UW-Platteville   11 (15)
t31 Alvernia            9 (19,25,25)
t31 Emory              9 (19,25,25)
33 UW-Stout          8 (18)
34 RHIT                 7 (22,23)
35 Wesley              5 (21)
36 St. Norbert        2 (24)



Comments later....
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on April 14, 2013, 12:03:58 PM
Really surprising to me that at least six of the seven non-me voters had St. Mary's above Calvin. I don't get it.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on April 14, 2013, 01:24:03 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on April 14, 2013, 12:03:58 PM
Really surprising to me that at least six of the seven non-me voters had St. Mary's above Calvin. I don't get it.

I must be the one that didn't. I had Calvin at #8 and St Mary's at #9
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 14, 2013, 04:39:03 PM
I guess you can say that St. Mary's entered the tourney ahead of Calvin, according to the last poll, and St. Mary's went further in the tourney.  Yeah, I guess you can look at the fact that St. Mary's played MIT, Alvernia, Morrisville State and MHB while Calvin traveled to RHIT, Stevens Point and St. Thomas.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 16, 2013, 10:05:33 AM

St. Thomas underwhelmed me in the tournament.  Even in the Calvin game, Calvin didn't seem like the better team, just one playing at the peak of it's abilities.

I had Calvin much higher until I saw St. Thomas play the next couple games, which were less impressive.

Also, given what St. Mary's showed, plus the fact they were missing a pretty big piece of the team, I thought they were tougher.

Honestly, with how different the two teams are, it's tough to judge.  Calvin had a lot of height, but they didn't seem to take as much advantage of it as they could have.

Just a tough call for me.  Plus the schedule was terrible.  They really didn't get to play many decent teams and when they did, they didn't win.

I'd say, if anything, it's still a schedule issue for me.  They didn't show me enough in the tournament to overcome the schedule.

You also have to remember I didn't even have them ranked before the tournament, so I did give them a lot of credit.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on October 18, 2013, 01:32:04 AM
So, when do we start the posters poll??  Preseason, after week 1, or after New Years??
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on October 18, 2013, 02:07:40 AM
Quote from: 7express on October 18, 2013, 01:32:04 AM
So, when do we start the posters poll??  Preseason, after week 1, or after New Years??

Mr. Ypsi doesn't start it until after New Years, but knowing how big a hurry you are in to do one, we'll allow you to submit a preseason poll, so have at it. ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on October 18, 2013, 03:33:11 PM
Quote from: magicman on October 18, 2013, 02:07:40 AM
Quote from: 7express on October 18, 2013, 01:32:04 AM
So, when do we start the posters poll??  Preseason, after week 1, or after New Years??

Mr. Ypsi doesn't start it until after New Years, but knowing how big a hurry you are in to do one, we'll allow you to submit a preseason poll, so have at it. ;D

Nah.  I just wanted to know.  I hate rankings before New Years anyways, so this is perfect for me.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on December 17, 2013, 10:43:42 AM
I know it's still a couple weeks out, but do we have a date when is the first poll due?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 17, 2013, 10:50:30 AM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on December 17, 2013, 10:43:42 AM
I know it's still a couple weeks out, but do we have a date when is the first poll due?

First poll will include games thru Jan. 12, so ballots are due as soon thereafter as possible.  I always hope to publish Tuesday evening, but it is usually Wednesday evening.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 02, 2014, 07:12:33 PM
I've just corrected the previous post, to avoid confusion.  As always, polls cover games thru Sunday (just like the 'real' poll).  (I had inadvertently said the first poll would cover games thru Jan. 11, but that is a Saturday.)

Voters are self-selected - anyone who is interested, genuinely follows ALL of D3 (or at least all the teams with any reasonable likelihood of garnering top 25 votes ;)), and is capable of minimizing home team or home conference or home region biases.  (As to the latter, my experience has been that the voters we get tend to be MORE harsh towards their own teams than the voters overall!)

I hope we can retain most of past voters, and add at least a couple of new ones.  In past years we've had an over-concentration of upper midwest voters - potential voters from the east and west coasts are especially invited.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on January 03, 2014, 03:41:48 PM
So, we'd start sending in our first ballots starting on the 12th than??
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 03, 2014, 04:23:48 PM
Quote from: 7express on January 03, 2014, 03:41:48 PM
So, we'd start sending in our first ballots starting on the 12th than??

Right, once any relevant games on the 12th have been played.  (I haven't checked to see if there are any relevant games, but I'd assume there are as the UAA generally plays Friday and Sunday games.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 11, 2014, 09:02:43 PM

So, I'm digging in now for a full investigation of every team in order to compile my initial list.  It only took 10 hours last year; I'm shooting for single digits this time around.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pjunito on January 11, 2014, 09:46:23 PM
Hoops.. Grab some wings, diet cola, and watch some NFL playoffs... I know you can do it under 10 hours this time!

Can't wait to see what the posters think.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on January 11, 2014, 10:38:18 PM
The good thing about making a trail run last week is that this week shouldn't take very long.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 11, 2014, 11:24:41 PM
Quote from: pjunito on January 11, 2014, 09:46:23 PM
Hoops.. Grab some wings, diet cola, and watch some NFL playoffs... I know you can do it under 10 hours this time!

Can't wait to see what the posters think.

Doing it during football does tend to slow the process down.  I'm halfway through the conferences.  I usually divide teams into three groups: ranked teams, teams that may have to be ranked for lack of options, and teams that can't be written off just yet.  Once I get the groups established, I'll go over each team individually to try and rank them.  Finally I'll check Massey and the d3hoops poll to make sure there aren't other teams I need to consider and missed for some reason.

Once I get this initial poll out of the way, I really just adjust slightly by results the rest of the way.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pjunito on January 12, 2014, 12:08:30 AM
My wife just asked me, what could I possibly be reading at midnight.. I told her post by Hoops Fan. She says, oh does he work for State Farm?

I don't think you do.. but I do hope you're wearing khakis.

One more day gentlemen!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on January 12, 2014, 12:49:31 AM
Quote from: pjunito on January 12, 2014, 12:08:30 AM
My wife just asked me, what could I possibly be reading at midnight.. I told her post by Hoops Fan. She says, oh does he work for State Farm?

I don't think you do.. but I do hope you're wearing khakis.

One more day gentlemen!

I think you should get into this pjunito.  I always enjoy your thoughts on the GNAC board, plus Mr. Ypsi is always looking for new members and more ballots to tally.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 12, 2014, 05:07:04 PM
I finished going through all the teams.  Amazingly, I ended up with 25 teams in my "rank-worthy" list.  I'm not sure if they all really belong there, but it's a good place to start.  Now I just have to rank them all, go through the next section to make sure there aren't any that need to be bumped up and we'll be good to go.

The only thing I know thus far: Stevens Point is #1.  By far.  Not even close.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pjunito on January 12, 2014, 05:24:03 PM
Quote from: 7express on January 12, 2014, 12:49:31 AM
Quote from: pjunito on January 12, 2014, 12:08:30 AM
My wife just asked me, what could I possibly be reading at midnight.. I told her post by Hoops Fan. She says, oh does he work for State Farm?

I don't think you do.. but I do hope you're wearing khakis.

One more day gentlemen!

I think you should get into this pjunito.  I always enjoy your thoughts on the GNAC board, plus Mr. Ypsi is always looking for new members and more ballots to tally.

Thanks 7,

I think I need one more year. I am learning more about the regions and different teams around the nation. I am still too bias to New England. lol. Maybe next year, Mr. Ypsi would allow me to vote. I read every post and learn a lot from the faithful posters.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on January 12, 2014, 08:37:29 PM
Just sent mine in.  Since I saved my trial run, wasn't that difficult.  Only times I ran into problem were:
1) At the bottom in the 23-25 range.  Both my #24 & #25 teams in the trial run suffered mid week losses, but so did my first team out and next one out as well.
2) If at all possibly, I tried to take head-to-head victories into account when ranking.  Obviously not applicable to Augustana's victory over Illinois Wesleyan OR Augustana's loss to Wheaton because the gap was too large, but if it was at all manageable I put the head-to-head victor out on top.......for now anyways.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 12, 2014, 08:48:49 PM
I'm going to have to pass this year.  :-[ I just can't completely commit. I barely keep up with all the leagues I run! :'(
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 12, 2014, 09:06:51 PM

Yeah, that was tough.  I decided to include the undefeated teams (most of them) near the bottom, so things get tricky.  It's still way too early in the year for me to make much of the list.  I never know how to prioritize no losses on a week schedule against too many on a good one.

It's in, though, so we'll see.

I did have one high profile omission - so that will be fun.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2014, 11:41:35 PM
Four ballots already in and tallied - hoping for double-digits.  Keep on sending 'em!

Hoops Fan, a second omission was also pretty high profile (both appear likely to easily make the top 20 [maybe top 15] despite you) - and I did have issues with several of your picks.  You ARE trying for the 'Captain Outlier' badge! :o

Nonetheless, I value your participation - carry on!  (I said I had 'issues' with those picks; not that I flat-out objected to them!)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on January 13, 2014, 12:28:22 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2014, 11:41:35 PM
Four ballots already in and tallied - hoping for double-digits.  Keep on sending 'em!

Hoops Fan, a second omission was also pretty high profile (both appear likely to easily make the top 20 [maybe top 15] despite you) - and I did have issues with several of your picks.  You ARE trying for the 'Captain Outlier' badge! :o

Nonetheless, I value your participation - carry on!  (I said I had 'issues' with those picks; not that I flat-out objected to them!)

When do you post the poll again, Tuesday evening at some point??
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 13, 2014, 12:31:46 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2014, 11:41:35 PM
Hoops Fan, a second omission was also pretty high profile (both appear likely to easily make the top 20 [maybe top 15] despite you) - and I did have issues with several of your picks.  You ARE trying for the 'Captain Outlier' badge! :o
Hey... I'm the left field ballot on these boards. ::)
I'll get my ballot in sometime in the next day or so
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 13, 2014, 08:38:24 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2014, 11:41:35 PM
Hoops Fan, a second omission was also pretty high profile (both appear likely to easily make the top 20 [maybe top 15] despite you) - and I did have issues with several of your picks.  You ARE trying for the 'Captain Outlier' badge!

Nonetheless, I value your participation - carry on!  (I said I had 'issues' with those picks; not that I flat-out objected to them!)

After looking at the d3hoops poll (something I don't really do all season until I've made my first poster poll ballot) I had some issues with my picks, too.  But going back and looking at the teams and schedules, I just didn't see where all the hype was coming from (other than reputation).

I know Texas-Dallas as high as I have them is wacked out.  I tend to overvalue the level of competition in Texas, but that's the only one I really, really didn't like putting where I did.  There's just so many teams with bad losses and so many lacking good wins.

I'm hoping conference play over the next couple of weeks will get things sorted out.  I'm pretty happy with my Top 8, though, which is unusual.

It could have been much worse.  My first pass at the poll left Whitewater out entirely (and had Platteville in).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 13, 2014, 08:40:11 AM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 13, 2014, 12:31:46 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2014, 11:41:35 PM
Hoops Fan, a second omission was also pretty high profile (both appear likely to easily make the top 20 [maybe top 15] despite you) - and I did have issues with several of your picks.  You ARE trying for the 'Captain Outlier' badge! :o
Hey... I'm the left field ballot on these boards.
I'll get my ballot in sometime in the next day or so

I've been Captain Outlier longer than you've been aware this poll existed.  I've wandered from my rebel ways the last few years (I lacked the time to do proper research and relied to heavily on the d3hoops poll).  I'm back now and ready to reclaim the throne.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 13, 2014, 07:33:36 PM
Aaargh - you procrastinators must be trying to make me pull out the rest of my hair!  A great start - 4 ballots before 11pm Sunday, but only 2 more over the next 20+ hours.  I haven't heard the intentions of a number of long time voters, such as Gregory Sager, Ralph Turner, sac, Knightslappy, etc.  Come on, guys, let's get to 12 or 13!

I'll post the poll Tuesday evening IF we're at 10+ and no one declares they will definitely submit if I hold it longer.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 14, 2014, 10:46:50 AM
My ballot is now in... and it looks almost nothing like the d3h poll. I have 7 teams on my ballot not in the top 25 and four teams that are ranked in the top 12 are absent from my ballot. Apparently I'm seeing something completely different than the d3h pollsters. I'm interested to see if our group backs up my observations at all or if I'm just crazy.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 14, 2014, 08:15:45 PM
We've been stalled at 8 ballots for about ten hours now.  Is there anyone out there intending to submit one, or shall I give up and post?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 14, 2014, 10:49:08 PM
POSTERS' POLL, Jan 12, 2014

1.  UWSP         199 (all 1s except for one 2)
2.  Wooster      192 (1,2,2,2,2,2,2,3)
3.  Cabrini        178 (2,3,3,3,3,3,6,7)
4.  IWU            163 (3,4,4,4,5,6,9,10)
5.  UWW          152 (4,5,5,6,6,7,11,12)
6.  Amherst      149 (4,5,5,6,7,7,8,17)
7.  Augustana   145 (3,4,5,8,8,9,11,15)
8.  Wittenberg   140 (6,7,7,9,9,9,10,11)
9.  Wash U        129 (4,7,10,10,10,12,12,14)
10 Wesley         125 (5,6,7,9,13,13,15,15)
t11 Williams      105 (8,8,8,9,10,10,24,-)
t11 WPI            105 4,5,6,12,13,14,23,-)
13 Purchase       98 (8,10,13,14,15,16,16,18)
14 M Washington 81 (11,11,12,14,17,17,19,-)
15 St. Thomas    80 (11,11,12,13,4,15,-,-)
16 St. Norbert     76 (12,13,14,14,15,16,22,-)
17 Messiah          61 (11,18,18,19,20,20,20,21)
18 St. Mary's       58 (12,17,17,18,18,20,22,-)
19 Brockport        57 (8,9,16,19,21,-,-,-)
20 Bowdoin         49 (16,16,16,19,19,21,-,-)
21 Texas-Dallas   32 (13,17,19,23,-,-,-,-)
22 Wheaton         30 (16,17,21,21,25,-,-,-)
t23 Colorado Col   29 (14,20,20,23,25,25,-,-)
t23 R. Stockton     29 (15,15,22,23,-,-,-,-)
25 Dickinson         28 (13,20,21,22,-,-,-,-)

26 Va Wes            23 (17,18,20)
27 Albertus M       17 (19,22,24,24,25,25)
28 W. Patterson    14 (18,22,24)
29 Dubuque          13 (21,23,23,25,25)
30 Oglethorpe       10 (21,23,24)
31 C. Newport         8 (18)
t32 Ohio Wes          7 (22,23)
t32 NYU                  7 (19)
34 Plattsburgh         4 (22)
35 DePauw              3 (23)
t36 Staten Island     2 (24)
t36 Whitworth          2 (24)
38 Husson               1 (25)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 14, 2014, 11:12:01 PM
I feel better knowing that I'm not alone with some of my choices (Williams, WPI, St Thomas, Brockport, Richard Stockton)

1.  UWSP         199 (all 1s except for one 2)
2.  Wooster      192 (1,2,2,2,2,2,2,3)
3.  Cabrini        178 (2,3,3,3,3,3,6,7)
4.  IWU            163 (3,4,4,4,5,6,9,10)
5.  UWW          152 (4,5,5,6,6,7,11,12)
6.  Amherst      149 (4,5,5,6,7,7,8,17)
7.  Augustana   145 (3,4,5,8,8,9,11,15)
8.  Wittenberg   140 (6,7,7,9,9,9,10,11)
9.  Wash U        129 (4,7,10,10,10,12,12,14)
10 Wesley         125 (5,6,7,9,13,13,15,15)
t11 Williams      105 (8,8,8,9,10,10,24,NR)
t11 WPI            105 4,5,6,12,13,14,23,NR)
13 Purchase       98 (8,10,13,14,15,16,16,18)
14 M Washington 81 (11,11,12,14,17,17,19,-)
15 St. Thomas    80 (11,11,12,13,4,15,-,NR)
16 St. Norbert     76 (12,13,14,14,15,16,22,NR)
17 Messiah          61 (11,18,18,19,20,20,20,21)
18 St. Mary's       58 (12,17,17,18,18,20,22,-)
19 Brockport        57 (8,9,16,19,21,-,-,-)
20 Bowdoin         49 (16,16,16,19,19,21,-,-)
21 Texas-Dallas   32 (13,17,19,23,-,-,-,NR)
22 Wheaton         30 (16,17,21,21,25,-,-,NR)
t23 Colorado Col   29 (14,20,20,23,25,25,-,-)
t23 R. Stockton     29 (15,15,22,23,-,-,-,-)
25 Dickinson         28 (13,20,21,22,-,-,-,-)

26 Va Wes            23 (17,18,20)
27 Albertus M       17 (19,22,24,24,25,25)
28 W. Patterson    14 (18,22,24)
29 Dubuque          13 (21,23,23,25,25)
30 Oglethorpe       10 (21,23,24)
31 C. Newport         8 (18)
t32 Ohio Wes          7 (22,23)
t32 NYU                  7 (19)
34 Plattsburgh         4 (22)
35 DePauw              3 (23)
t36 Staten Island     2 (24)
t36 Whitworth          2 (24)
38 Husson               1 (25)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on January 14, 2014, 11:47:25 PM
1.  UWSP         199 (all 1s except for one 2)
2.  Wooster      192 (1,2,2,2,2,2,2,3)
3.  Cabrini        178 (2,3,3,3,3,3,6,7)
4.  IWU            163 (3,4,4,4,5,6,9,10)
5.  UWW          152 (4,5,5,6,6,7,11,12)
6.  Amherst      149 (4,5,5,6,7,7,8,17)
7.  Augustana*   145 (3,4,5,8,8,9,11,15)
8.  Wittenberg   140 (6,7,7,9,9,9,10,11)
9.  Wash U        129 (4,7,10,10,10,12,12,14)
10 Wesley         125 (5,6,7,9,13,13,15,15)
t11 Williams      105 (8,8,8,9,10,10,24,-)
t11 WPI*            105 (4,5,6,12,13,14,23,-)
13 Purchase       98 (8,10,13,14,15,16,16,18)
14 M Washington 81 (11,11,12,14,17,17,19,-)
15 St. Thomas    80 (11,11,12,13,4,15,-,-)
16 St. Norbert     76 (12,13,14,14,15,16,22,-)
17 Messiah          61 (11,18,18,19,20,20,20,21)
18 St. Mary's       58 (12,17,17,18,18,20,22,-)
19 Brockport        57 (8,9,16,19,21,-,-,-)
20 Bowdoin         49 (16,16,16,19,19,21,-,-)
21 Texas-Dallas   32 (13,17,19,23,-,-,-,-)
22 Wheaton         30 (16,17,21,21,25,-,-,-)
t23 Colorado Col   29 (14,20,20,23,25,25,-,-)
t23 R. Stockton     29 (15,15,22,23,-,-,-,-)
25 Dickinson         28 (13,20,21,22,-,-,-,-)

26 Va Wes            23 (17,18,20)
27 Albertus M       17 (19,22,24,24,25,25)
28 W. Patterson    14 (18,22,24)
29 Dubuque          13 (21,23,23,25,25)
30 Oglethorpe       10 (21,23,24)
31 C. Newport*         8 (18.  Whoops!)
t32 Ohio Wes*          7 (22,23)
t32 NYU                  7 (19)
34 Plattsburgh         4 (22)
35 DePauw              3 (23)
t36 Staten Island     2 (24)
t36 Whitworth          2 (24)
38 Husson               1 (25)

For the non-rank (I made my poll out to 33 so I can arrange it easier for losses): I have Brockport at #33, Texas-Dallas not ranked at all but probably at 34 or 35 if I went that far, Wheaton at #26, Stockton at #27, and Dickenson not ranked at all.  My other 33: Marietta #28, Whitworth #29, Babson #30, Emory #31 and Calvin at #32.

*= are my outliers.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 15, 2014, 06:25:33 PM
My ballot:

POSTERS' POLL, Jan 12, 2014

1.  UWSP         199 (all 1s except for one 2)
2.  Wooster      192 (1,2,2,2,2,2,2,3)
3.  Cabrini        178 (2,3,3,3,3,3,6,7)
4.  IWU            163 (3,4,4,4,5,6,9,10)
5.  UWW          152 (4,5,5,6,6,7,11,12)
6.  Amherst      149 (4,5,5,6,7,7,8,17)
7.  Augustana   145 (3,4,5,8,8,9,11,15)
8.  Wittenberg   140 (6,7,7,9,9,9,10,11)
9.  Wash U        129 (4,7,10,10,10,12,12,14)
10 Wesley         125 (5,6,7,9,13,13,15,15)
t11 Williams      105 (8,8,8,9,10,10,24,-)
t11 WPI            105 4,5,6,12,13,14,23,-)
13 Purchase       98 (8,10,13,14,15,16,16,18)
14 M Washington 81 (11,11,12,14,17,17,19,-)
15 St. Thomas    80 (11,11,12,13,4,15,-,-)
16 St. Norbert     76 (12,13,14,14,15,16,22,-)
17 Messiah          61 (11,18,18,19,20,20,20,21)
18 St. Mary's       58 (12,17,17,18,18,20,22,-)
19 Brockport        57 (8,9,16,19,21,-,-,-)
20 Bowdoin         49 (16,16,16,19,19,21,-,-)
21 Texas-Dallas   32 (13,17,19,23,-,-,-,-)
22 Wheaton         30 (16,17,21,21,25,-,-,-)
t23 Colorado Col   29 (14,20,20,23,25,25,-,-)
t23 R. Stockton     29 (15,15,22,23,-,-,-,-)
25 Dickinson         28 (13,20,21,22,-,-,-,-)

26 Va Wes            23 (17,18,20)
27 Albertus M       17 (19,22,24,24,25,25)
28 W. Patterson    14 (18,22,24)
29 Dubuque          13 (21,23,23,25,25)
30 Oglethorpe       10 (21,23,24)
31 C. Newport         8 (18)
t32 Ohio Wes          7 (22,23)
t32 NYU                  7 (19)
34 Plattsburgh         4 (22)
35 DePauw              3 (23)
t36 Staten Island     2 (24)
t36 Whitworth          2 (24)
38 Husson               1 (25)
[/quote]
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 15, 2014, 06:34:02 PM
Kind of interesting that the two teams we seem most divided on are the two who tied for 11th.  Williams had 6 votes between 8th and 10th, then a 24th and NV.  WPI had 3 votes in the top 6, then 3 votes in the mid-teens, then 23rd and NV.  Anyone on any side of the voting care to chime in on that?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: kiltedbryan on January 15, 2014, 10:19:11 PM
I'd be interested to hear the rationale from the voter who has Wooster at #1 over UWSP.

Even as a Wooster partisan, I find it difficult to come up with a way to slot the Scots ahead of the Pointers. It seems to me like UWSP has the edge by going undefeated against an equally or even stronger schedule vs. Wooster's loss, and they've played one more game. I haven't watched the Pointers extensively, but even based on the ~2 halves I've seen, it also seems that UWSP's dual weapons of Tillema and Hass are a notch above Brown and Thorpe of Wooster.

Just curious to hear the reasoning if that voter is interested in explaining.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on January 16, 2014, 12:17:43 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 15, 2014, 06:34:02 PM
Kind of interesting that the two teams we seem most divided on are the two who tied for 11th.  Williams had 6 votes between 8th and 10th, then a 24th and NV.  WPI had 3 votes in the top 6, then 3 votes in the mid-teens, then 23rd and NV.  Anyone on any side of the voting care to chime in on that?

I had WPI 5th; Williams 8th.
In the non-posted trial run I had WPI 6th, Amherst 9th & Williams 4th.  Losing to Amherst isn't that terrible of a loss especially on the road, but remember what I said earlier in the week: "If at all possible I WILL take head-to-head results into play, if at all possible."  And 9th to 4th was definitely possible, especially when you include Amherst's win earlier in the week over a very good Eastern Connecticut team.  So WPI replaced Cabrini in my 5 slot, since they went to 3rd ahead of losses by IWU & Williams (3rd & 4th in the trial run), Whitewater went up 1 from 6th in the trial to 5th in the posted poll, moved Amherst from 9th to 7th, put Williams at 8th, and moved Wittenberg down 1 (8th to 9th) after they won 2 close home games by a combined 3 points.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 16, 2014, 02:38:23 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 15, 2014, 06:34:02 PM
Kind of interesting that the two teams we seem most divided on are the two who tied for 11th.  Williams had 6 votes between 8th and 10th, then a 24th and NV.  WPI had 3 votes in the top 6, then 3 votes in the mid-teens, then 23rd and NV.  Anyone on any side of the voting care to chime in on that?

I stayed up until the wee hours on Monday night/Tuesday morning so I could get my poll turned in before the new Top 25 poll was released. I managed to do that despite falling asleep twice while I was working on it.

Like you I had Williams at #10, Unlike you I had WPI a bit lower at #14. I'm still not sold on the Engineers. Any team that can lose to Castleton State by double digits, doesn't make me want to put them in the Top 10. I struggled to put them as high as 14th. For the last 3 years I believe, they have failed to win a 2nd round game in the NCAA tournament. I try to picture my Top Ten as teams that would make it through to the Sweet 16. They also have the weakest SOS of any team in the Top 25 at #307. Even Albertus Magnus at #304 is better.  In fact you have to go all the way to Massey's 76th ranked team to find a school with a worse SOS than the Engineers. That would be Husson in the North Atlantic Conference, the lowest ranked conference in D3. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 16, 2014, 09:43:44 AM

POSTERS' POLL, Jan 12, 2014

1.  UWSP         199 (all 1s except for one 2)
2.  Wooster      192 (1,2,2,2,2,2,2,3)
3.  Cabrini        178 (2,3,3,3,3,3,6,7)
4.  IWU            163 (3,4,4,4,5,6,9,10)
5.  UWW          152 (4,5,5,6,6,7,11,12)
6.  Amherst      149 (4,5,5,6,7,7,8,17)
7.  Augustana   145 (3,4,5,8,8,9,11,15)
8.  Wittenberg   140 (6,7,7,9,9,9,10,11)
9.  Wash U        129 (4,7,10,10,10,12,12,14)
10 Wesley         125 (5,6,7,9,13,13,15,15)
t11 Williams      105 (8,8,8,9,10,10,24,-)
t11 WPI            105 4,5,6,12,13,14,23,-)
13 Purchase       98 (8,10,13,14,15,16,16,18)
14 M Washington 81 (11,11,12,14,17,17,19,-)
15 St. Thomas    80 (11,11,12,13,4,15,-,-)
16 St. Norbert     76 (12,13,14,14,15,16,22,-)
17 Messiah          61 (11,18,18,19,20,20,20,21)
18 St. Mary's       58 (12,17,17,18,18,20,22,-)
19 Brockport        57 (8,9,16,19,21,-,-,-)
20 Bowdoin         49 (16,16,16,19,19,21,-,-)
21 Texas-Dallas   32 (13,17,19,23,-,-,-,-)
22 Wheaton         30 (16,17,21,21,25,-,-,-)
t23 Colorado Col   29 (14,20,20,23,25,25,-,-)
t23 R. Stockton     29 (15,15,22,23,-,-,-,-)
25 Dickinson         28 (13,20,21,22,-,-,-,-)

26 Va Wes            23 (17,18,20)
27 Albertus M       17 (19,22,24,24,25,25)
28 W. Patterson    14 (18,22,24)
29 Dubuque          13 (21,23,23,25,25)
30 Oglethorpe       10 (21,23,24)
31 C. Newport         8 (18)
t32 Ohio Wes          7 (22,23)
t32 NYU                  7 (19)
34 Plattsburgh         4 (22)
35 DePauw              3 (23)
t36 Staten Island     2 (24)
t36 Whitworth          2 (24)
38 Husson               1 (25)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Charles on January 16, 2014, 05:25:53 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 16, 2014, 09:43:44 AM

No votes for Middlebury and 1 vote for Husson?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 16, 2014, 05:51:01 PM
Being that Husson is ranked higher than Middlebury in Massey...why should that be an issue? I didn't vote for Husson but they are undefeated.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: frodotwo on January 16, 2014, 08:18:20 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 15, 2014, 06:34:02 PM
Kind of interesting that the two teams we seem most divided on are the two who tied for 11th.  Williams had 6 votes between 8th and 10th, then a 24th and NV.  WPI had 3 votes in the top 6, then 3 votes in the mid-teens, then 23rd and NV.  Anyone on any side of the voting care to chime in on that?

I guess I'm one of the outliers on Williams. I'm unimpressed with their schedule, with their best wins being close wins against slightly above average teams like Springfield (H by 5) and Hampden-Sydney (A by 2). The only very good team they played was Amherst who led for 35 minutes in the game and were barely threatened in the second half in winning by 11. Everyone else they played were 150 or worse according to Massey.

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 16, 2014, 09:06:17 PM

Middlebury has not been living up to their potential.  They're going to have to run the table to get back in my poll.

Husson's schedule is terrible and they're barely beating most of those teams.

Williams has been underwhelming from what I expected of them, but I expected them to be challenging for the #1 ranking.  That trip to Virginia was impressive, even if Hampden-Sydney is having a down year - d3 road trips are not easy.  The players aren't used to it (for the most part) and home court in strange places with unfamiliar refs is a big deal.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 17, 2014, 02:35:50 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 16, 2014, 09:06:17 PM

Husson's schedule is terrible and they're barely beating most of those teams.



Except for the fact that only five of their games have margins under 10 points. So barely beating most of those teams = whopping at least half upside the head a good one.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 17, 2014, 06:44:04 AM
Quote from: smedindy on January 17, 2014, 02:35:50 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 16, 2014, 09:06:17 PM

Husson's schedule is terrible and they're barely beating most of those teams.



Except for the fact that only five of their games have margins under 10 points. So barely beating most of those teams = whopping at least half upside the head a good one.


Against that schedule, I'd need to see a minimum of 15 point wins without exception and an average margin of victory of like 30 or 35 to rank them.  It's just an abysmal schedule.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 17, 2014, 10:06:02 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 17, 2014, 06:44:04 AM
Quote from: smedindy on January 17, 2014, 02:35:50 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 16, 2014, 09:06:17 PM

Husson's schedule is terrible and they're barely beating most of those teams.



Except for the fact that only five of their games have margins under 10 points. So barely beating most of those teams = whopping at least half upside the head a good one.


Against that schedule, I'd need to see a minimum of 15 point wins without exception and an average margin of victory of like 30 or 35 to rank them.  It's just an abysmal schedule.
As the one who put them 25th, I'll admit that it's more of a ceremonial vote. I'd have them as underdogs against schools I didn't rank like Williams, WPI, St Thomas, etc. But the fact is, out of more than 400 teams, they're one of just 6 that have managed to beat everyone they've faced and that deserves a little bit of respect.
I do the same thing in the football poll when there's an unbeaten like St Scholastica so at least I'm consistent ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 17, 2014, 12:58:32 PM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 17, 2014, 10:06:02 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 17, 2014, 06:44:04 AM
Quote from: smedindy on January 17, 2014, 02:35:50 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 16, 2014, 09:06:17 PM

Husson's schedule is terrible and they're barely beating most of those teams.



Except for the fact that only five of their games have margins under 10 points. So barely beating most of those teams = whopping at least half upside the head a good one.


Against that schedule, I'd need to see a minimum of 15 point wins without exception and an average margin of victory of like 30 or 35 to rank them.  It's just an abysmal schedule.
As the one who put them 25th, I'll admit that it's more of a ceremonial vote. I'd have them as underdogs against schools I didn't rank like Williams, WPI, St Thomas, etc. But the fact is, out of more than 400 teams, they're one of just 6 that have managed to beat everyone they've faced and that deserves a little bit of respect.
I do the same thing in the football poll when there's an unbeaten like St Scholastica so at least I'm consistent.

I did it for Bowdoin and Messiah.  Husson was a bridge too far.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on January 19, 2014, 05:36:24 PM
Just sent my week 2 poll in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 20, 2014, 12:20:14 AM

I hate my ballot.  I literally abhor it with every fiber in my being.

I was able to narrow down my team list considerably, which is good.  But when it comes to the actual poll, I'm not sure anyone below #14 even deserves to receive votes.

In the end I had 16 teams and three slots remaining.  I literally picked at random (not quite random, but you know, I allowed my subconscious biases to fill in the slots).

This is going to be one heck of a tournament.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 20, 2014, 10:51:34 PM
We've been stuck on 5 ballots for 10 hours now - c'mon guys!

Just a reminder that the poll is based on games thru Sunday - if you're considering Richard Stockton, Mt. Union, or St. Thomas, try to ignore the turds they deposited this evening.  Vote as you would have (and should have ;)) done yesterday or early today.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 20, 2014, 11:39:23 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 20, 2014, 10:51:34 PM
We've been stuck on 5 ballots for 10 hours now - c'mon guys!

Just a reminder that the poll is based on games thru Sunday - if you're considering Richard Stockton, Mt. Union, or St. Thomas, try to ignore the turds they deposited this evening.  Vote as you would have (and should have ;)) done yesterday or early today.
I didn't work on my ballot last night and tonight is bowling night so I still haven't worked on it. I'll get to work on it shortly. It'll get in at some point by tomorrow.
I'd say something about not letting you get comfortable by having everyone sending ballots really early, but I'm sure it'd come back to haunt me during football season ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on January 21, 2014, 12:08:28 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 20, 2014, 10:51:34 PM
We've been stuck on 5 ballots for 10 hours now - c'mon guys!

Just a reminder that the poll is based on games thru Sunday - if you're considering Richard Stockton, Mt. Union, or St. Thomas, try to ignore the turds they deposited this evening.  Vote as you would have (and should have ;)) done yesterday or early today.

In Stockton's case, it was this afternoon, but same idea.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 21, 2014, 01:23:20 PM
I'm out this week. Had a great weekend with my girls and didn't think about much else.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 21, 2014, 01:56:01 PM
Quote from: smedindy on January 21, 2014, 01:23:20 PM
I'm out this week. Had a great weekend with my girls and didn't think about much else.

That family thing always getting in the way!  :P
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 21, 2014, 06:20:39 PM
Well I know Mr. Y is not still stuck on 5 as I sent mine in early today so he's got at least 6 and the Grizz would make 7.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 21, 2014, 07:10:20 PM
Quote from: magicman on January 21, 2014, 06:20:39 PM
Well I know Mr. Y is not still stuck on 5 as I sent mine in early today so he's got at least 6 and the Grizz would make 7.

Yep, I've got seven.  Smed was last week's eighth voter, and he's already posted that he can't do it this week.  So ... any more ballots in the works, or will I have to settle for seven?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 21, 2014, 08:14:26 PM
The silence is deafening - I'll interpret that as 'no more ballots'. :(

POSTERS' POLL thru games of 1-19-14:

1.  UWSP            175 (unanimous)
2.  Wooster         168 (unanimous)
3.  Cabrini           152 (3,3,3,3,4,6,8)
4.  IWU               147 (3,4,4,4,4,7,9)
5.  UWW             140 (3,4,6,6,7,7,9)
6.  Amherst         134 (4,5,5,6,6,7,15)
7.  Augie             131 (3,5,5,8,8,8,14)
8.  Wesley           116 (5,6,7,9,12,12,15)
9.  Wash U          113 (7,9,9,10,11,11,12)
10. WPI               100 (5,5,6,11,13,20,22)
11. Williams         96 (7,8,9,10,10,19,23)
12. Purchase        89 (8,12,13,14,14,16,16)
t13 St. Thomas     78 (10,10,11,12,14,21,-)
t13 M. Washington 78 10,10,11,13,18,20,-)
15. St. Norbert      77 (11,12,13,13,15,19,22)
16. Brockport        57 (8,9,14,18,24,-,-)
17. Wittenberg      48 (14,15,15,16,23,25,-)
18. UT-Dallas        40 (12,15,16,23,24,-,-,-)
19. Bowdoin          39 (15,18,19,21,22,22,-)
20. A. Magnus       37 (17,18,19,20,20,25,-)
21. Messiah           36 (13,17,19,23,23,25,-)
22. Dickinson         33 (11,17,20,23,-,-,-)
t23 Dubuque          31 (17,19,20,21,22,-,-)
t23 Va Wes             31 16,17,17,24,25,-,-)
25. R. Stockton       28 (13,14,24,25,-,-,-)

26. St. Mary's          26 (18,19,20,21)
27. Oglethorpe        19 (16,22,22,25)
28. Ohio Wes          10 (21,21)
29. Wheaton             9 (17)
t30 Plattsburgh         8 (18)
t30 Willy Pat             8 (18)
32. Staten Island      6 (20)
33. DePauw              5 (21)
34. Colorado Col       3 (23)
t35 C. Newport         2 (24)
t35 Marietta             2 (24)
t35 Stevenson          2 (24)
38. Husson               1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 21, 2014, 10:33:51 PM
Something is awry... There are 10 7th place votes and only 3 8th place votes.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on January 21, 2014, 10:46:25 PM
1.  UWSP            175 (unanimous)
2.  Wooster         168 (unanimous)
3.  Cabrini           152 (3,3,3,3,4,6,8)
4.  IWU               147 (3,4,4,4,4,7,9)
5.  UWW             140 (3,4,6,6,7,7,9)
6.  Amherst         134 (4,5,5,6,6,7,15)
7.  Augie*             131 (3,5,5,7,7,7,14)
8.  Wesley           116 (5,6,7,9,12,12,15)
9.  Wash U          113 (7,9,9,10,11,11,12)
10. WPI               100 (5,5,6,11,13,20,22)
11. Williams         96 (7,8,9,10,10,19,23)
12. Purchase        89 (8,12,13,14,14,16,16)
t13 St. Thomas     78 (10,10,11,12,14,21,-)
t13 M. Washington 78 (10,10,11,13,18,20,-)
15. St. Norbert      77 (11,12,13,13,15,19,22)
16. Brockport*        57 (8,9,14,18,24,-,-)
17. Wittenberg      48 (14,15,15,16,23,25,-)
18. UT-Dallas*        40 (12,15,16,23,24,-,-,-)
19. Bowdoin          39 (15,18,19,21,22,22,-)
20. A. Magnus       37 (17,18,19,20,20,25,-)
21. Messiah           36 (13,17,19,23,23,25,-)
22. Dickinson*         33 (11,17,20,23,-,-,-)
t23 Dubuque*          31 (17,19,20,21,22,-,-)
t23 Va Wes             31 (16,17,17,24,25,-,-)
25. R. Stockton       28 (13,14,24,25,-,-,-)

26. St. Mary's          26 (18,19,20,21)
27. Oglethorpe        19 (16,22,22,25)
28. Ohio Wes          10 (21,21)
29. Wheaton             9 (17)
t30 Plattsburgh         8 (18)
t30 Willy Pat             8 (18)
32. Staten Island      6 (20)
33. DePauw              5 (21)
34. Colorado Col       3 (23)
t35 C. Newport*         2 (24)
t35 Marietta             2 (24)
t35 Stevenson          2 (24)
38. Husson               1

*my outliers

my just missed teams: Calvin, Brockport, Wheaton, Stevenson, Babson, Mount Union, Marietta, and Husson.  Since Stockton lost, looks like I'll finally have Brockport in the top 25 next week.  As to why I still have Newport in the poll: since I had them #18 last week and they went 1-1 last week with the loss @ Mary Washington who is now 13th in my poll, I couldn't drop them out entirely.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 21, 2014, 10:50:50 PM
Quote from: John Gleich on January 21, 2014, 10:33:51 PM
Something is awry... There are 10 7th place votes and only 3 8th place votes.

Well, I quickly found most of the error - I had three 8th place votes for Augie scored as 7th.  The rest of the problem is too trivial to be worth the effort. ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 22, 2014, 12:09:09 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 21, 2014, 10:50:50 PM
Quote from: John Gleich on January 21, 2014, 10:33:51 PM
Something is awry... There are 10 7th place votes and only 3 8th place votes.

Well, I quickly found most of the error - I had three 8th place votes for Augie scored as 7th.  The rest of the problem is too trivial to be worth the effort. ;)

That'd do it!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 26, 2014, 12:56:09 AM

My ballot is in.


If WashU loses tomorrow, I'll amend.


My #s 2, 3, and 4 all lost this week.  Lots of shake up.  I'm now no longer confident of any pick past #1.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on January 26, 2014, 01:23:53 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 26, 2014, 12:56:09 AM

My ballot is in.


If WashU loses tomorrow, I'll amend.


My #s 2, 3, and 4 all lost this week.  Lots of shake up.  I'm now no longer confident of any pick past #1.

The only scores I've looked at today are those from the LEC, but I have a feeling when I update all the results from today later tomorrow I'm gonna have a whole bunch on jumbling to do to decide what to do with the top 25.  We could put together a top 50 and I wouldn't be confident in any pick outside of #1.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 26, 2014, 06:29:31 AM
I'm guessing Ricard Stockton is everyone's #1.

Tghijgsto!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: iwumichigander on January 26, 2014, 11:03:21 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 21, 2014, 10:50:50 PM
Quote from: John Gleich on January 21, 2014, 10:33:51 PM
Something is awry... There are 10 7th place votes and only 3 8th place votes.

Well, I quickly found most of the error - I had three 8th place votes for Augie scored as 7th.  The rest of the problem is too trivial to be worth the effort. ;)
Oh no, I doubt you gave any of your students any slack for "too trivial to be worth the effort" :o ::)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 26, 2014, 11:57:20 AM
Quote from: iwumichigander on January 26, 2014, 11:03:21 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 21, 2014, 10:50:50 PM
Quote from: John Gleich on January 21, 2014, 10:33:51 PM
Something is awry... There are 10 7th place votes and only 3 8th place votes.

Well, I quickly found most of the error - I had three 8th place votes for Augie scored as 7th.  The rest of the problem is too trivial to be worth the effort. ;)
Oh no, I doubt you gave any of your students any slack for "too trivial to be worth the effort" :o ::)

Actually, I used to give high partial credit for answers which were numerically wrong (as long as they were not impossible) as long as the procedures were correct. ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on January 26, 2014, 03:57:27 PM
Just sent mine in.  Much like Hoops Fan, outside of #1, I am not confident in a single pick the rest of the 24.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: frodotwo on January 26, 2014, 08:56:45 PM
I'm in, I feel good about my top three and then.............
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 27, 2014, 12:34:05 AM
Quote from: frodotwo on January 26, 2014, 08:56:45 PM
I'm in, I feel good about my top three and then.............

Yeah, with just four ballots in, I suspect the order of the top three is already set (you and I agree on all; the other two had all three in their top four), but after that it gets really messy!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 27, 2014, 04:49:05 PM
I'm in and it's a mixed bag of new and old and welp, I gotta pick someone.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on January 28, 2014, 05:26:41 AM
Mine's in. That gives us at least 6 ballots.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 28, 2014, 05:46:19 AM
Mine will be in shortly... I am determined to get this finished. I've made it through 20... just 5 more to go
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 28, 2014, 05:34:22 PM
Been stuck on 7 ballots for about 12 hours now.  I'll post in a couple of hours unless I hear from other potential voters.  (smedindy is back on board this week, but no word from John Gleich yet.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 28, 2014, 09:31:27 PM
POSTERS' POLL, January 26:
  (Due to ties we have 11 in the top 10, and 26 in the top 25! :P)

1.  UWSP        175 (unanimous)
2.  Cabrini       163 (2,2,2,2,2,4,5)
t3. Amherst     151 (2,3,3,3,4,4,12)
t3. Wooster      151 (3,3,4,5,5,5,6)
5.  IWU            135 (4,5,6,6,7,8,11)
6.  Wash U       132 (3,6,6,7,7,10,11)
7.  Wesley        130 (2,4,5,9,9,10,13)
8.  UWW           123 (6,7,8,9,9,9,11)
9.  M. Washington 103 (5,7,11,12,14,15,15)
t10 Augie           101 (8,8,9,12,12,14,18)
t10 WPI             101 (3,4,10,10,13,18,23)
12. St. Norbert   100 (8,8,9,11,13,14,19)
13. Purchase        98 (7,10,10,12,13,15,17)
14. Brockport       87 (6,8,11,12,17,17,24)
15. Williams         78 (7,10,12,13,17,19,-)
16. TX-Dallas        60 (11,14,15,15,20,21,-)
17. Bowdoin         55 (13,15,16,19,20,22,22)
18. St. Thomas     50 (14,16,16,17,20,23,-)
19. Wittenberg     46 (13,15,18,18,23,23,-)
20. A. Magnus      41 (14,17,18,20,20,-,-)
21. St. Mary's       35 (14,18,18,19,-,-,-)
22. Ohio Wesleyan 28 (16,19,20,21,-,-,-)
23. Dickinson        16 (17,21,24,-,-,-,-)
24. Messiah           15 (16,22,25,-,-,-,-)
t25 Dubuque          13 (20,22,24,25,-,-,-)
t25 Whitworth        13 (21,21, 24,25,- - -)

t27 Marietta            12 (19,21)
t27 Plattsburgh        12 (16,24)
29. R. Stockton        11 (16,25)
30. Randy Mac           9 (22,22,25)
31. Va. Wes               8 (21,24,25)
32. Wheaton              7 (19)
33. DePauw               6 (23,23)
34. C. Newport           4 (22)
t35 Staten Island       3 (24,25)
t35 Calvin                  3 (23)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 28, 2014, 09:48:18 PM
I'm rather surprised at how few teams there are in the ORV and no one received just 1 or 2 votes.

1.  UWSP        175 (unan1mous)
2.  Cabrini       163 (2,2,2,2,2,4,5)
t3. Amherst     151 (2,3,3,3,4,4,12)
t3. Wooster      151 (3,3,4,5,5,5,6)
5.  IWU            135 (4,5,6,6,7,8,11)
6.  Wash U       132 (3,6,6,7,7,10,11)
7.  Wesley        130 (2,4,5,9,9,10,13)
8.  UWW           123 (6,7,8,9,9,9,11)
9.  M. Washington 103 (5,7,11,12,14,15,15)
t10 Augie           101 (8,8,9,12,12,14,18)
t10 WPI             101 (3,4,10,10,13,18,23)
12. St. Norbert   100 (8,8,9,11,13,14,19)
13. Purchase        98 (7,10,10,12,13,15,17)
14. Brockport       87 (6,8,11,12,17,17,24)
15. Williams         78 (7,10,12,13,17,19,*)
16. TX-Dallas        60 (11,14,15,15,20,21,-)
17. Bowdoin         55 (13,15,16,19,20,22,22)
18. St. Thomas     50 (14,16,16,17,20,23,-)
19. Wittenberg     46 (13,15,18,18,23,23,*)
20. A. Magnus      41 (14,17,18,20,20,-,-)
21. St. Mary's       35 (14,18,18,19,-,-,*)
22. Ohio Wesleyan 28 (16,19,20,21,-,-,-)
23. Dickinson        16 (17,21,24,-,-,-,-)
24. Messiah           15 (16,22,25,-,-,-,-)
t25 Dubuque          13 (20,22,24,25,-,-,-)
t25 Whitworth        13 (21,21, 24,25,- - -)

t27 Marietta            12 (19,21)
t27 Plattsburgh        12 (16,24)
29. R. Stockton        11 (16,25)
30. Randy Mac           9 (22,22,25)
31. Va. Wes               8 (21,24,25)
32. Wheaton              7 (19)
33. DePauw               6 (23,23)
34. C. Newport           4 (22)
t35 Staten Island       3 (24,25)
t35 Calvin                  3 (23)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 28, 2014, 10:57:33 PM
I haven't posted my ballot in a couple of weeks, so here goes.

POSTERS' POLL, January 26:
  (Due to ties we have 11 in the top 10, and 26 in the top 25! :P)

1.  UWSP        175 (unan1mous)
2.  Cabrini       163 (2,2,2,2,2,4,5)
t3. Amherst     151 (2,3,3,3,4,4,12)
t3. Wooster      151 (3,3,4,5,5,5,6)
5.  IWU            135 (4,5,6,6,7,8,11)
6.  Wash U       132 (3,6,6,7,7,10,11)
7.  Wesley        130 (2,4,5,9,9,10,13)
8.  UWW           123 (6,7,8,9,9,9,11)
9.  M. Washington 103 (5,7,11,12,14,15,15)
t10 Augie           101 (8,8,9,12,12,14,18)
t10 WPI             101 (3,4,10,10,13,18,23)
12. St. Norbert   100 (8,8,9,11,13,14,19)
13. Purchase        98 (7,10,10,12,13,15,17)
14. Brockport       87 (6,8,11,12,17,17,24)
15. Williams         78 (7,10,12,13,17,19,-)
16. TX-Dallas        60 (11,14,15,15,20,21,-)
17. Bowdoin         55 (13,15,16,19,20,22,22)
18. St. Thomas     50 (14,16,16,17,20,23,-)
19. Wittenberg     46 (13,15,18,18,23,23,-)
20. A. Magnus      41 (14,17,18,20,20,-,-)
21. St. Mary's       35 (14,18,18,19,-,-,-)
22. Ohio Wesleyan 28 (16,19,20,21,-,-,-)
23. Dickinson        16 (17,21,24,-,-,-,-)
24. Messiah           15 (16,22,25,-,-,-,-)
t25 Dubuque          13 (20,22,24,25,-,-,-)
t25 Whitworth        13 (21,21, 24,25,- - -)

t27 Marietta            12 (19,21)
t27 Plattsburgh        12 (16,24)
29. R. Stockton        11 (16,25)
30. Randy Mac           9 (22,22,25)
31. Va. Wes               8 (21,24,25)
32. Wheaton              7 (19)
33. DePauw               6 (23,23)
34. C. Newport           4 (22)
t35 Staten Island       3 (24,25)
t35 Calvin                  3 (23)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on January 28, 2014, 11:33:03 PM
POSTERS' POLL, January 26:
  (Due to ties we have 11 in the top 10, and 26 in the top 25! :P)

1.  UWSP        175 (unanimous)
2.  Cabrini       163 (2,2,2,2,2,4,5)
t3. Amherst     151 (2,3,3,3,4,4,12)
t3. Wooster      151 (3,3,4,5,5,5,6)
5.  IWU            135 (4,5,6,6,7,8,11)
6.  Wash U       132 (3,6,6,7,7,10,11)
7.  Wesley        130 (2,4,5,9,9,10,13)
8.  UWW           123 (6,7,8,9,9,9,11)
9.  M. Washington 103 (5,7,11,12,14,15,15)
t10 Augie*           101 (8,8,9,12,12,14,18)
t10 WPI*             101 (3,4,10,10,13,18,23)
12. St. Norbert   100 (8,8,9,11,13,14,19)
13. Purchase        98 (7,10,10,12,13,15,17)
14. Brockport*       87 (6,8,11,12,17,17,24)
15. Williams         78 (7,10,12,13,17,19,-)
16. TX-Dallas*        60 (11,14,15,15,20,21,-)
17. Bowdoin         55 (13,15,16,19,20,22,22)
18. St. Thomas     50 (14,16,16,17,20,23,-)
19. Wittenberg     46 (13,15,18,18,23,23,-)
20. A. Magnus      41 (14,17,18,20,20,-,-)
21. St. Mary's       35 (14,18,18,19,-,-,-)
22. Ohio Wesleyan 28 (16,19,20,21,-,-,-)
23. Dickinson*        16 (17,21,24,-,-,-,-)
24. Messiah           15 (16,22,25,-,-,-,-)
t25 Dubuque*          13 (20,22,24,25,-,-,-)
t25 Whitworth        13 (21,21, 24,25,- - -)

t27 Marietta            12 (19,21)
t27 Plattsburgh        12 (16,24)
29. R. Stockton        11 (16,25)
30. Randy Mac           9 (22,22,25)
31. Va. Wes               8 (21,24,25)
32. Wheaton              7 (19)
33. DePauw               6 (23,23)
34. C. Newport*           4 (22)
t35 Staten Island       3 (24,25)
t35 Calvin*                  3 (23)

And I thought I had Wesley too low  :o  Someone put them second?!?!?!?!?!?
And I don't even how Dickinson, Dallas, or Dubuque on my next 8 out list.  Damn, looks like I really screwed Brockport, oops!

* are my outliers
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 29, 2014, 07:24:07 AM

I put Wesley second.  Followed by Amherst and Cabrini.

I've had Wesley in the 6-10 range for most of our ballots so far.  I had Wooster, Augustana, and IWU in 2-4 last week and decided with all of them losing, to drop them down to the second half of the Top Ten.  Looking at who was around to rise, I was left with those three.  I wasn't exactly happy about any of them, but I can't make a case than any other schools are looking or playing better right now.

I'm not entirely sold on any of them and I know the least about Wesley, but they've played the toughest schedule so far and are in a very difficult conference.  Obviously we'll see how they do with Cabrini real soon.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on January 29, 2014, 08:47:20 AM
Sorry I didn't join in this week. I got stuck after #1....    ???
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 29, 2014, 11:27:00 AM
I may have put Wesley too low, but it made sense at the time.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 29, 2014, 12:46:55 PM
My yet-unpublished and never-before-seen ballot.

1   UW-Whitewater
2   UW-Stevens Point
3   St. Norbert
4   Augustana
5   St. Olaf
6   Wooster
7   Babson
8   Brockport State
9   Illinois Wesleyan
10   Cabrini
11   SUNY-Purchase
12   WPI
13   Texas-Dallas
14   Bowdoin
15   Amherst
16   Calvin
17   St. Thomas
18   Washington U.
19   Albertus Magnus
20   Dickinson
21   Penn State-Behrend
22   Centre
23   Staten Island
24   Virginia Wesleyan
25   Wittenberg
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 29, 2014, 01:25:39 PM
justification needed for Whitewater
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 29, 2014, 01:38:12 PM
Quote from: sac on January 29, 2014, 01:25:39 PM
justification needed for Whitewater

I'm interested in that too, why did you all rank them so low?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on January 29, 2014, 01:42:47 PM
Stevens Point 79  Whitewater 67
http://athletics.uwsp.edu/boxscore.aspx?path=mbball&id=4683

Point led by double-digits for approximately 25 minutes and by over 20 for a disturbing amount of time.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 29, 2014, 02:13:13 PM
Not to mention Stout 74, Whitewater 69, and LaX 88, Whitewater 83.  I think our 8th or d3hoops' 10th is about right.  I can't see how 1st can possibly be justified when they are currently 3rd in their own conference!

But KS, come join us next week anyway! ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 29, 2014, 02:16:32 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 29, 2014, 01:38:12 PM
Quote from: sac on January 29, 2014, 01:25:39 PM
justification needed for Whitewater

I'm interested in that too, why did you all rank them so low?


I've had St. Olaf on my radar all season.  They've been hovering just outside the Top 25 for lack of a signature win.  I think they're a better team than St. Thomas, but since I don't have the Tommies ranked, it's tough to get St. Olaf in there.

I'm curious why you're so confident in them.  I could see them as a Top Ten team, I just have no way of knowing right now.

As much as I like being Captain Outlier, I really do try to have some defensible reason for making the crazy choices I make.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 29, 2014, 02:40:01 PM
Whitewater and Stevens Point are very close. I have Whitewater as being the only team in D3 to have both a top 10 offense and top 10 defense.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 29, 2014, 02:43:11 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 29, 2014, 02:40:01 PM
Whitewater and Stevens Point are very close. I have Whitewater as being the only team in D3 to have both a top 10 offense and top 10 defense.

That's all well and good, and I believe in metrics.

But you play to WIN THE GAME!

By hook, crook, outscoring, or being unrelenting on defense.

You don't just PLAY TO PLAY!

;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 29, 2014, 02:47:36 PM
Quote from: smedindy on January 29, 2014, 02:43:11 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 29, 2014, 02:40:01 PM
Whitewater and Stevens Point are very close. I have Whitewater as being the only team in D3 to have both a top 10 offense and top 10 defense.

That's all well and good, and I believe in metrics.

But you play to WIN THE GAME!

By hook, crook, outscoring, or being unrelenting on defense.

You don't just PLAY TO PLAY!

;)

But is the point of a Top 25 poll to be descriptive or predictive? That is, are we trying to say what each team has done (i.e. who they've beaten), or how well they're likely to perform in the future?

I prefer the latter.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 29, 2014, 06:25:57 PM
Quote from: smedindy on January 29, 2014, 02:43:11 PM

You don't just PLAY TO PLAY!

;)

Don't just say something to say something. TGHIJGSTOTM
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 29, 2014, 06:28:32 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 29, 2014, 02:47:36 PM
But is the point of a Top 25 poll to be descriptive or predictive? That is, are we trying to say what each team has done (i.e. who they've beaten), or how well they're likely to perform in the future?

I prefer the latter.

That's called a preseason poll.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: frodotwo on January 29, 2014, 07:14:14 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 29, 2014, 02:47:36 PM
Quote from: smedindy on January 29, 2014, 02:43:11 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 29, 2014, 02:40:01 PM
Whitewater and Stevens Point are very close. I have Whitewater as being the only team in D3 to have both a top 10 offense and top 10 defense.

That's all well and good, and I believe in metrics.

But you play to WIN THE GAME!

By hook, crook, outscoring, or being unrelenting on defense.

You don't just PLAY TO PLAY!

;)

But is the point of a Top 25 poll to be descriptive or predictive? That is, are we trying to say what each team has done (i.e. who they've beaten), or how well they're likely to perform in the future?

I prefer the latter.

The way Whitewater was playing prior to La Crosse, I was thinking that they were the most dangerous team in the WIAC, but then they lost at La Crosse. A week later Stevens Point went to La Crosse and won by 19.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 29, 2014, 09:31:44 PM

St. Thomas must have heard us dissing them.  A 51-12 halftime lead over Macalester.  That's a rough half.  Wow.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 30, 2014, 10:59:26 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 29, 2014, 02:47:36 PM
Quote from: smedindy on January 29, 2014, 02:43:11 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 29, 2014, 02:40:01 PM
Whitewater and Stevens Point are very close. I have Whitewater as being the only team in D3 to have both a top 10 offense and top 10 defense.

That's all well and good, and I believe in metrics.

But you play to WIN THE GAME!

By hook, crook, outscoring, or being unrelenting on defense.

You don't just PLAY TO PLAY!

;)

But is the point of a Top 25 poll to be descriptive or predictive? That is, are we trying to say what each team has done (i.e. who they've beaten), or how well they're likely to perform in the future?


Yes.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 02, 2014, 05:30:48 PM
I'll try to update mine during the halftime show of some football game that's being played tonight, and send it in later tonight.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 02, 2014, 10:11:29 PM
Hey, guys: the Stupor Bowl has been effectively over for two+ hours - why no ballots except my own? ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: frodotwo on February 02, 2014, 10:23:18 PM
Actually I think it was over 12 seconds into the game  :-X

Here's mine.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 02, 2014, 10:44:16 PM
Quote from: frodotwo on February 02, 2014, 10:23:18 PM
Actually I think it was over 12 seconds into the game  :-X

Here's mine.

In retrospect, sure.  But I really thought Peyton would win this one, and a 2 point deficit is nothing in the NFL.  When it got to 15-0, I figured the Broncos were in deep doo-doo; after Percy Harvin returned the opening KO of the second half to make it 29-0, I found other things to do! ::)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 02, 2014, 11:06:34 PM
I did my ballot during halftime, but since the top 25 was a complete landmine this week (a lot of teams lost, especially in the middle of the pack [7 teams from #12 to #22 in my last week poll lost at least 1 game this week]) AND there were a lot of close home wins against less than stellar competition, so it took me a while to go through the mess and decide who should be placed where.  Even though it was completed during halftime, I couldn't submit until after the game ended which I just did.  After #1 I am extremely unconfident of the other 24.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 03, 2014, 09:09:00 PM
I'm confident of the top two (as are most of the rest of the voters), and reasonably confident of 3-12 (teams, not order), but quite a crapshoot after that.

Still only five ballots in.  Awaiting magicman, FCGG, and John Gleich from this year, sac who told me he would probably join later in the year, and such past voters as Ralph, Gregory, Charles, hugenerd, hopester, a_s, etc. - not too late to join in!

We've never had more than 8 so far this year- in past years we counted on at least 12! :(
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 04, 2014, 12:03:39 PM
Mine is in finally.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 04, 2014, 01:09:03 PM
Off the top of my head, I don't recall any posts from hugenerd in awhile.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 04, 2014, 07:35:34 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 04, 2014, 01:09:03 PM
Off the top of my head, I don't recall any posts from hugenerd in awhile.

I believe his last post was about 10 to 11 months ago. He was working on some big time medicine delivery system I think. Probably up to his neck in research. Plus MIT is not all that good so he's waiting for a better season. ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 04, 2014, 08:18:32 PM
FCGriz PM'd me that his would be in later this evening; have not yet heard from John Gleich.  Anyone else in the pipeline?  If I don't hear anything otherwise, I'll post soon after I get the ballot from Griz.  (Former voter KnightSlappy has re-joined us - some of his teams are MUCH higher or lower than the rest of us, but since he does some of the numbers that Hoopsville relies on, I'm sure he could defend his choices vigorously! ;))
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 04, 2014, 09:04:15 PM
I have now received (and tabulated) FCGG's ballot - I'll wait about another hour in hopes something else will slip over the transom!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 04, 2014, 11:00:11 PM
My ballot:

POSTERS' POLL, 2-2-14:

1.  UWSP      200 (unan1mous)
2.  Cabrini     176 (2,2,2,2,2,2,3,17)
3.  IWU         167 (3,3,4,4,5,6,6,10)
4.  UWW        155 (2,4,7,7,7,7,9,10)
5.  St.Norbert 150 (3,6,6,8,9,11,12,13)
6.  Wash U     146 (3,4,4,5,5,10,10,20)
7.  Wesley      140 (2,3,3,7,8,8,12,25)
8.  Wooster     137 (5,6,7,8,8,9,9,19)
9.  Amherst    132 (5,5,6,8,9,11,16,16)
10  Brockport  127 (3,7,8,9,11,12,14,17)
11  M. Washington 114 (4,5,10,11,12,13,13,-)
12  WPI           113 (4,5,9,10,11,12,18,24)
13  Williams      91 (6,9,11,12,14,15,24,-)
14  Purchase     86 (11,11,14,15,16,17,17,21)
15  St. Thomas  81 (7,13,13,15,16,16,21,-)
16  Bowdoin      76 (4,13,17,18,18,19,21,22)
17  Ohio Wes     62 (13,14,15,16,17,20,25,-)
18  TX-Dallas     52 (12,14,18,18,19,23,-,-)
19  Messiah       40 (10,16,19,21,24,-,-,-)
20  A. Magnus    36 (18,18,18,20,21,25.-.-)
21  Va Wes        33 (15, 19,20,21,22,-,-,-)
t22 Randy Mac   28 (17,19,20,23,24,25,-,-)
t22 Augie           28 (12,15,24,25,-,-,-,-)
24  Dubuque      26 (14,19,22,23,-,-,-,-)
25  Calvin          24 (8,20,-,-,-,-,-,-)

26  Marietta       22 (15,17,24)
27  Staten Island 21 (13,22,23,25)
t28 St. Mary's     20 (16,19,23)
t28 St. Olaf         20 (6)
30  Whitworth     19 (20,20,22,23)
t31 Witt              16 (21,22,22,24,25)
t31 Plattsburgh    16 (14,22)
t31 Centre           16 (10)
34  Babson          11 (15)
35  PS-Behrend     6 (20)
t36 R. Stockton     3 (23)
t36 Wheaton         3 (23)
38  Dickinson        2 (24)
39  Scranton         1

OOPS!!  Don't know what I did, but somehow in modifying my ballot, I modified the poll itself. :-[
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 04, 2014, 11:36:42 PM
 UWSP      200 (unan1mous)
2.  Cabrini     176 (2,2,2,2,2,2,3,17)
3.  IWU         167 (3,3,4,4,5,6,6,10)
4.  UWW        155 (2,4,7,7,7,7,9,10)
5.  St.Norbert 150 (3,6,6,8,9,11,12,13)
6.  Wash U     146 (3,4,4,5,5,10,10,20)
7.  Wesley      140 (2,3,3,7,8,8,12,25)
8.  Wooster     137 (5,6,7,8,8,9,9,19)
9.  Amherst    132 (5,5,6,8,9,11,16,16)
10  Brockport*  127 (3,7,8,9,11,12,14,17)
11  M. Washington 114 (4,5,10,11,12,13,13,-)
12  WPI           113 (4,5,9,10,11,12,18,24)
13  Williams      91 (6,9,11,12,14,15,24,-)
14  Purchase     86 (11,11,14,15,16,17,17,21)
15  St. Thomas  81 (7,13,13,15,16,16,21,-)
16  Bowdoin      76 (4,13,17,18,18,19,21,22)
17  Ohio Wes     62 (13,14,15,16,17,20,25,-)
18  TX-Dallas     52 (12,14,18,18,19,23,-,-)
19  Messiah       40 (10,16,19,21,24,-,-,-)
20  A. Magnus    36 (18,18,18,20,21,25.-.-)
21  Va Wes*        33 (15, 19,20,21,22,-,-,-)
t22 Randy Mac   28 (17,19,20,23,24,25,-,-)
t22 Augie           28 (12,15,24,25,-,-,-,-)
24  Dubuque      26 (14,19,22,23,-,-,-,-)
25  Calvin          24 (8,20,-,-,-,-,-,-)

26  Marietta       22 (15,17,22)
27  Staten Island 21 (13,22,23,25)
t28 St. Mary's     20 (16,19,23)
t28 St. Olaf         20 (6)
30  Whitworth     19 (20,20,22,23)
t31 Witt              16 (21,22,22,24,25)
t31 Plattsburgh    16 (14,22)
t31 Centre           16 (10)
34  Babson          11 (15)
35  PS-Behrend     6 (20)
t36 R. Stockton     3 (23)
t36 Wheaton         3 (23)
38  Dickinson        2 (24)
39  Scranton         1

Btw, Ypsi, I had Marietta 24th.  Did I write in someone different instead??  If so, #24 was supposed to be Marietta.
Still looks like I screwed Brockport.  Really wanted to put Wash U higher.  Granted, Rochester isn't that good this year, but being able to sweep the Rochester/Emory trip like they did was pretty damn impressive because not a lot of teams do that.  Hell sweeping any road trip in the UAA is tough, even the Carnegie/Case trip, but I couldn't put them at #2 in front of IWU who they lost too, and I couldn't justify putting IWU second (they may play cupcakes, but Cabrini is undefeated) so I dropped WPI a few slots (3rd to 5th) who had 2 close wins over Coast Guard & Springfield, not exactly challenging opponents.  Swapped my CCIW teams with Wheaton replacing Augustana in the poll.  2 road wins for Wheaton + 2 home losses for Augie + a season series sweep = that result.  Really wanted to drop Wittenberg out all together too, but since I had them at 13th last week that was just too big of a drop especially with all the other teams losing.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2014, 12:04:12 AM
You did indeed have Marietta 24th - somehow I posted it as 22nd.  Now corrected.

I rarely (if ever) get it totally correct the first time - anyone else find suspected errors?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 05, 2014, 03:57:28 AM
Cabrini 17th? Mary Washington not ranked? St Olaf 6th? Those are some major outliers

1.  UWSP      200 (unan1mous)
2.  Cabrini     176 (2,2,2,2,2,2,3,17)
3.  IWU         167 (3,3,4,4,5,6,6,10)
4.  UWW        155 (2,4,7,7,7,7,9,10)
5.  St.Norbert* 150 (3,6,6,8,9,11,12,13)
6.  Wash U     146 (3,4,4,5,5,10,10,20)
7.  Wesley      140 (2,3,3,7,8,8,12,25)
8.  Wooster     137 (5,6,7,8,8,9,9,19)
9.  Amherst    132 (5,5,6,8,9,11,16,16)
10  Brockport  127 (3,7,8,9,11,12,14,17)
11  M. Washington* 114 (4,5,10,11,12,13,13,-)
12  WPI           113 (4,5,9,10,11,12,18,24)
13  Williams      91 (6,9,11,12,14,15,24,-)
14  Purchase     86 (11,11,14,15,16,17,17,21)
15  St. Thomas  81 (7,13,13,15,16,16,21,-)
16  Bowdoin      76 (4,13,17,18,18,19,21,22)
17  Ohio Wes     62 (13,14,15,16,17,20,25,-)
18  TX-Dallas     52 (12,14,18,18,19,23,-,-)
19  Messiah*       40 (10,16,19,21,24,-,-,-)
20  A. Magnus    36 (18,18,18,20,21,25.-.-)
21  Va Wes        33 (15, 19,20,21,22,-,-,-)
t22 Randy Mac   28 (17,19,20,23,24,25,-,-)
t22 Augie           28 (12,15,24,25,-,-,-,-)
24  Dubuque*      26 (14,19,22,23,-,-,-,-)
25  Calvin          24 (8,20,-,-,-,-,-,-)

26  Marietta       22 (15,17,24)
27  Staten Island 21 (13,22,23,25)
t28 St. Mary's     20 (16,19,23)
t28 St. Olaf         20 (6)
30  Whitworth     19 (20,20,22,23)
t31 Witt              16 (21,22,22,24,25)
t31 Plattsburgh    16 (14,22)
t31 Centre           16 (10)
34  Babson          11 (15)
35  PS-Behrend     6 (20)
t36 R. Stockton     3 (23)
t36 Wheaton         3 (23)
38  Dickinson        2 (24)
39  Scranton*         1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 05, 2014, 08:44:32 AM

I'm on the St. Olaf bandwagon - have been since the beginning.  I think they're better than St. Thomas, I just don't see a resume I can trust just yet.  I have no problem with a ranking that high.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 05, 2014, 08:54:22 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 05, 2014, 08:44:32 AM

I'm on the St. Olaf bandwagon - have been since the beginning.  I think they're better than St. Thomas, I just don't see a resume I can trust just yet.  I have no problem with a ranking that high.

I was thinking today how the rankings would change between St. Thomas and St. Olaf if their respective resume's were flipped. Pretty much the only difference is the 1-point St. Thomas win (on their home floor), and yet the rankings are widely different because of the names.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 05, 2014, 09:10:52 AM
I like polls because they are fun. Other than that, I view them as predetermined based on a compete falacy on what is the preseason poll. One reason St. Thomas is ranked higher than St. Olaf is because where they started at the begining of the year. Look.at North Central and where they started and where they are now. Luckily, the polls have nothing to do with tournament selection.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 05, 2014, 09:17:08 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 05, 2014, 09:10:52 AM
I like polls because they are fun. Other than that, I view them as predetermined based on a compete falacy on what is the preseason poll. One reason St. Thomas is ranked higher than St. Olaf is because where they started at the begining of the year. Look.at North Central and where they started and where they are now. Luckily, the polls have nothing to do with tournament selection.

We don't do a preseason poll though.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 05, 2014, 10:55:51 AM
Huge outliers on Cabrini and Mary Washington because Massey has them 3rd and 10th, respectively. St. Olaf is 17th.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 05, 2014, 10:57:13 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 05, 2014, 09:10:52 AM
I like polls because they are fun. Other than that, I view them as predetermined based on a compete falacy on what is the preseason poll. One reason St. Thomas is ranked higher than St. Olaf is because where they started at the begining of the year. Look.at North Central and where they started and where they are now. Luckily, the polls have nothing to do with tournament selection.

St. Olaf has crept up in my measurement. Knocking on the door. But we don't do a pre-season poll and there are no biases like that here.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 05, 2014, 11:48:05 AM
Quote from: smedindy on February 05, 2014, 10:55:51 AM
Huge outliers on Cabrini and Mary Washington because Massey has them 3rd and 10th, respectively. St. Olaf is 17th.

Not any more egregious than St. Mary's at 16, Massey has them 40th.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 05, 2014, 12:30:23 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 05, 2014, 10:57:13 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 05, 2014, 09:10:52 AM
I like polls because they are fun. Other than that, I view them as predetermined based on a compete falacy on what is the preseason poll. One reason St. Thomas is ranked higher than St. Olaf is because where they started at the begining of the year. Look.at North Central and where they started and where they are now. Luckily, the polls have nothing to do with tournament selection.

St. Olaf has crept up in my measurement. Knocking on the door. But we don't do a pre-season poll and there are no biases like that here.

I would actually disagree as some, I think, have admitted using (or at least looking) at the D3hoops Top 25 as, maybe not a gauge, but a starting point or guide.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 05, 2014, 02:22:57 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 05, 2014, 08:54:22 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 05, 2014, 08:44:32 AM

I'm on the St. Olaf bandwagon - have been since the beginning.  I think they're better than St. Thomas, I just don't see a resume I can trust just yet.  I have no problem with a ranking that high.

I was thinking today how the rankings would change between St. Thomas and St. Olaf if their respective resume's were flipped. Pretty much the only difference is the 1-point St. Thomas win (on their home floor), and yet the rankings are widely different because of the names.

Yeah, I've never thought St. Thomas deserved to be ranked.  I do, though, tend to give a team with a weak record, but a recent track record of high performance the benefit of the doubt at times.

I also look at these rankings as a full season process.  I don't much care about getting the first one "right" persay, so long as I get the last one (before the tournament) as right as I can.

The truth is, I know a little more about a Brockport or a WPI, teams with good records against bad schedules and I'm more inclined to take the chance early on.  I don't doubt St. Olaf is a Top 15 squad, I just haven't found reason to justify it yet.

It's similar to St. Norbert.  Last year's success and the return of so many players gives me some confidence to rank them a bit higher this year.

Then there are teams like Williams and St. Mary's that I'm ranking higher than their performance deserves based on potential.  I don't mind ranking on potential and giving them some time to prove or disprove my confidence.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: frodotwo on February 05, 2014, 03:05:33 PM
POSTERS' POLL, 2-2-14:

1.  UWSP      200 (unan1mous)
2.  Cabrini     176 (2,2,2,2,2,2,3,17)
3.  IWU         167 (3,3,4,4,5,6,6,10)
4.  UWW        155 (2,4,7,7,7,7,9,10)
5.  St.Norbert 150 (3,6,6,8,9,11,12,13)
6.  Wash U     146 (3,4,4,5,5,10,10,20)
7.  Wesley      140 (2,3,3,7,8,8,12,25)
8.  Wooster     137 (5,6,7,8,8,9,9,19)
9.  Amherst    132 (5,5,6,8,9,11,16,16)
10  Brockport  127 (3,7,8,9,11,12,14,17)
11  M. Washington 114 (4,5,10,11,12,13,13,-)
12  WPI           113 (4,5,9,10,11,12,18,24)
13  Williams      91 (6,9,11,12,14,15,24,-)
14  Purchase     86 (11,11,14,15,16,17,17,21)
15  St. Thomas  81 (7,13,13,15,16,16,21,-)
16  Bowdoin      76 (4,13,17,18,18,19,21,22)
17  Ohio Wes     62 (13,14,15,16,17,20,25,-)
18  TX-Dallas     52 (12,14,18,18,19,23,-,-)
19  Messiah       40 (10,16,19,21,24,-,-,-)
20  A. Magnus    36 (18,18,18,20,21,25.-.-)
21  Va Wes        33 (15, 19,20,21,22,-,-,-)
t22 Randy Mac   28 (17,19,20,23,24,25,-,-)
t22 Augie           28 (12,15,24,25,-,-,-,-)
24  Dubuque      26 (14,19,22,23,-,-,-,-)
25  Calvin          24 (8,20,-,-,-,-,-,-)

26  Marietta       22 (15,17,24)
27  Staten Island 21 (13,22,23,25)
t28 St. Mary's     20 (16,19,23)
t28 St. Olaf         20 (6)
30  Whitworth     19 (20,20,22,23)
t31 Witt              16 (21,22,22,24,25)
t31 Plattsburgh    16 (14,22)
t31 Centre           16 (10)
34  Babson          11 (15)
35  PS-Behrend     6 (20)
t36 R. Stockton     3 (23)
t36 Wheaton         3 (23)
38  Dickinson        2 (24)
39  Scranton         1

Mary Washington at 5 for me was due to IWU losing the previous week and Amherst/Wooster this week. Do I think they're better than those 3 - no, they just lost while MW won.

One of my head scratchers was someone picking Bowdoin at 4 ahead of Amherst, who just beat them???

A good week by Ohio Wes launched them from unranked on my list.  And just when Albertus Magnus was about to get some love after their big win, they follow it up with a big loss.

The old "been there before, they should still be there" for me are St. Thomas and Whitworth, both probably higher than they deserve. Wittenberg almost dropped out, probably should have after losing at home to a much weaker team. Augie did for losing two at home to lesser teams (Alright, maybe Wheaton isn't that much lesser).

St. Norbert and Williams in the same boat in my mind - weak schedules leave them middle of the pack.  Messiah and Dubuque back in after a week out and a new #25, Staten Island, we'll see how long they last, the last three weeks #25 in my picks has lost.

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nescac1 on February 05, 2014, 03:50:00 PM
Williams doesn't have the strongest schedule in D3, but I also think it's unfair to brand their schedule as weak.  I know Massey doesn't smile upon the New England teams but Massey in my view has often severely underrated New England teams relative to their performance in the post-season.  Perhaps I am wrong, but I am just guessing, for example, that Amherst wasn't ranked first for most of last year ... computer ratings in D3 hoops are not irrelevant, but they also aren't all-relevant -- if they were, why even bother to have a D3hoops Top 25, and just post computer rankings instead? 

And I think it's ridiculous to have the Ephs totally unranked, as one voter did.  The Ephs have essentially not had a healthy top five guys for the entire season, yet they are 17-3 and have a proven record of success, including a very narrow loss in the Elie 8 last year following an impressive tourney run.  They just beat a very solid Stevens team on the road down two starters for almost the entire game.  They have lost to one team they should not have, but that was a one point loss in the first game of the season played under really strange conditions.  Their only other two losses are to a top-10 Amherst squad.  They've handed a top-20 Bowdoin team one of its only two losses.  They have solid road wins at Hampden-Sydney and at Midd (two teams who are a bit down, but still very talented squads which are tough outs at home).  They beat a very good Springfield team which has been a top-40 caliber team all year.  They have a few other solid wins vs. NESCAC teams, most notably Colby and Wesleyan.  And the Ephs have loads of talent -- including the best freshman in the country in Duncan Robinson, who gets better and better each week, an all-American caliber center who is just now playing his way into shape following illness and injury, and several other top-notch players. 

I will grant that the Ephs have not played like the top-5 team that I thought they would be heading into the season.  But they have most certainly played like a top-20 team, and I think that once they get a few guys back from injury, they have as much talent as anyone outside of Stevens Point. 

Ultimately, I think Williams deserves to be in the 10-12 range right now, as most voters seems to have them.  I do think the team has potential for a lot more, depending on how fast injured guys can return. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 05, 2014, 04:11:23 PM
Yeah, Williams certainly hasn't played a weak schedule. I have them as the #20 schedule in D3.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: frodotwo on February 05, 2014, 04:36:25 PM
Quote from: nescac1 on February 05, 2014, 03:50:00 PM
Williams doesn't have the strongest schedule in D3, but I also think it's unfair to brand their schedule as weak.  I know Massey doesn't smile upon the New England teams but Massey in my view has often severely underrated New England teams relative to their performance in the post-season.  Perhaps I am wrong, but I am just guessing, for example, that Amherst wasn't ranked first for most of last year ... computer ratings in D3 hoops are not irrelevant, but they also aren't all-relevant -- if they were, why even bother to have a D3hoops Top 25, and just post computer rankings instead? 

And I think it's ridiculous to have the Ephs totally unranked, as one voter did.  The Ephs have essentially not had a healthy top five guys for the entire season, yet they are 17-3 and have a proven record of success, including a very narrow loss in the Elie 8 last year following an impressive tourney run.  They just beat a very solid Stevens team on the road down two starters for almost the entire game.  They have lost to one team they should not have, but that was a one point loss in the first game of the season played under really strange conditions.  Their only other two losses are to a top-10 Amherst squad.  They've handed a top-20 Bowdoin team one of its only two losses.  They have solid road wins at Hampden-Sydney and at Midd (two teams who are a bit down, but still very talented squads which are tough outs at home).  They beat a very good Springfield team which has been a top-40 caliber team all year.  They have a few other solid wins vs. NESCAC teams, most notably Colby and Wesleyan.  And the Ephs have loads of talent -- including the best freshman in the country in Duncan Robinson, who gets better and better each week, an all-American caliber center who is just now playing his way into shape following illness and injury, and several other top-notch players. 

I will grant that the Ephs have not played like the top-5 team that I thought they would be heading into the season.  But they have most certainly played like a top-20 team, and I think that once they get a few guys back from injury, they have as much talent as anyone outside of Stevens Point. 

Ultimately, I think Williams deserves to be in the 10-12 range right now, as most voters seems to have them.  I do think the team has potential for a lot more, depending on how fast injured guys can return.

OK, Williams' schedule has improved over the last several games, but the first 10 or so had been pretty weak. There is no denying that the top NESCAC teams have done very well the past several years as Amherst/Midd/Williams are certainly part of the D3 elite year in and year out. Sorry, but just not real impressed with Bowdoin yet, who other than beating Babson at home early in the year, have not beaten anyone of note. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 05, 2014, 10:47:15 PM

And you never know what other factors will affect things either.  Coming into the year, I thought Williams and St. Mary's were returning the two best rosters in the country.  Clearly neither has played to that level.  Chemistry, conditioning, circumstances all factor into what's expected and what's delivered.

I also happen to think we've got a strange occurrence with the CAC being so good this year.  Wesley and Mary Washington have the gaudy records, St. Mary's has the talent and experience - even Christopher Newport and Marymount have put up some good wins, and I got to see Salisbury play in the Hoopsville tournament.  They're full of freshmen, so erratic results make sense, but I suspect, talent-wise, they're a Top 40 team nationally and they're sitting 6th in the conference with a losing record and 10-10 overall.  We may have questions about the top teams, but there's no conference in the country whose 4th, 5th, and 6th best teams are as good as the CAC.

Having this talent in the Mid-Atlantic is just not normal.  It throws off our perceptions of all the other schools in the region and no one is really sure exactly who is good and who isn't.  I expect the Mid-Atlantic to have three or four good teams and not much else; it's all over the map this year.  It's tough to navigate my preconceptions and historical biases with what I see.  Add in the relatively low cross-regional overlap and it's a total crap shoot.

We all had Point #1, pretty solidly, but I don't think even their most ardent UWSP supporter would call that a "championship team" by any traditional measure.  We've just got a nation of flawed teams this year.  To use an awkward double negative, there's nothing I've seen to indicate a healthy Cabrini can't win the title, but when I look at them actually playing, my mind immediately says, "that's a #15 team out there."

Maybe the numbers will prove correct this year, because I just don't think human reasoning is going to figure anything out.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: mwcsid on February 05, 2014, 11:02:47 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 05, 2014, 10:47:15 PM

I also happen to think we've got a strange occurrence with the CAC being so good this year.  Wesley and Mary Washington have the gaudy records, St. Mary's has the talent and experience - even Christopher Newport and Marymount have put up some good wins, and I got to see Salisbury play in the Hoopsville tournament.  They're full of freshmen, so erratic results make sense, but I suspect, talent-wise, they're a Top 40 team nationally and they're sitting 6th in the conference with a losing record and 10-10 overall.  We may have questions about the top teams, but there's no conference in the country whose 4th, 5th, and 6th best teams are as good as the CAC.


LIKE. UMW 67, at St. Mary's 61 tonight. I agree, the top six in the CAC very strong, very well said.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 05, 2014, 11:45:58 PM
Quote from: nescac1 on February 05, 2014, 03:50:00 PM
  I know Massey doesn't smile upon the New England teams but Massey in my view has often severely underrated New England teams relative to their performance in the post-season. 

of course, you must admit there's an awful lot of dross on the NE region, which affects SOS and power rankings a bit since teams play a lot of interlocking schedules.

Williams' SOS in Massey is 72, which isn't bad by any means. Upper quartile even. I think there are a lot of people who tend to be provincial on schedules and not understand the entire D3 universe.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 06, 2014, 07:35:21 AM
Quote from: smedindy on February 05, 2014, 11:45:58 PM
Quote from: nescac1 on February 05, 2014, 03:50:00 PM
  I know Massey doesn't smile upon the New England teams but Massey in my view has often severely underrated New England teams relative to their performance in the post-season. 

of course, you must admit there's an awful lot of dross on the NE region, which affects SOS and power rankings a bit since teams play a lot of interlocking schedules.

Williams' SOS in Massey is 72, which isn't bad by any means. Upper quartile even. I think there are a lot of people who tend to be provincial on schedules and not understand the entire D3 universe.

You also get thrown off by the non-d3 opponents that are more prevalent in the Midwest.  If the WIAC and CCIW schools are playing NAIA-1 and D1 and D2 opponents, that drastically improves strength of schedule (Not a MW school, but Wilmington is way higher than they should be because of a win over a D1 program.)

With the plethora of terrible teams in the NE, you're just going to get watered down SOS numbers - even if you avoid playing the worst teams, the teams you play can't always do the same.

We're just not going to get super accurate computer rankings without more cross-region play.  I doubt that will really happen (nor should it).

Plus the NorthEast region is way down this year talent-wise, relative to the rest of the country.  It's a down year overall, but even more so in the NE.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 06, 2014, 11:23:31 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 06, 2014, 07:35:21 AM
Quote from: smedindy on February 05, 2014, 11:45:58 PM
Quote from: nescac1 on February 05, 2014, 03:50:00 PM
  I know Massey doesn't smile upon the New England teams but Massey in my view has often severely underrated New England teams relative to their performance in the post-season. 

of course, you must admit there's an awful lot of dross on the NE region, which affects SOS and power rankings a bit since teams play a lot of interlocking schedules.

Williams' SOS in Massey is 72, which isn't bad by any means. Upper quartile even. I think there are a lot of people who tend to be provincial on schedules and not understand the entire D3 universe.

You also get thrown off by the non-d3 opponents that are more prevalent in the Midwest.  If the WIAC and CCIW schools are playing NAIA-1 and D1 and D2 opponents, that drastically improves strength of schedule (Not a MW school, but Wilmington is way higher than they should be because of a win over a D1 program.)

With the plethora of terrible teams in the NE, you're just going to get watered down SOS numbers - even if you avoid playing the worst teams, the teams you play can't always do the same.

We're just not going to get super accurate computer rankings without more cross-region play.  I doubt that will really happen (nor should it).

Plus the NorthEast region is way down this year talent-wise, relative to the rest of the country.  It's a down year overall, but even more so in the NE.

I don't think the CCIW or WIAC are playing a plethora of D-1 and D-2 schools. A handful, maybe, at most, but not enough to tip the ratings scale that much. It seems that a lot of teams in the South play more upper level teams because of the lack of teams in D3 down there.

And shouldn't Wilma get credit for beating Miami? They haven't really lost any clinkers except for Transylvania (which is down for whatever reason) and almost bested Marietta last time out.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on February 06, 2014, 05:56:19 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 05, 2014, 10:47:15 PM
We all had Point #1, pretty solidly, but I don't think even their most ardent UWSP supporter would call that a "championship team" by any traditional measure. 

Ardent UWSP supporter I am and ardently disagree with this statement I do!

Quote
We've just got a nation of flawed teams this year.

Just like every other year.

We haven't had an undefeated National Champion since Platteville in '97-98. And even though they went 30-0 (and had an average margin of victory of 22.2 per game, won all but 5 of their games by double digits) they weren't without weakness. No team is, no matter how good they can look at times.

Since the the '01-02 season (as far back as the top 25 archives currently go) there have only been 3 seasons where the preseason #1 ended up as the National Champion (UWSP in 2005, Wash U in 2008 and 2009). UWSP was the closest at being ranked from start to finish (Wash U was knocked out of the top spot before the first reg season poll and achieved the top spot just once before the final poll in 07-08 and got knocked out of the top spot after week 3 in 08-09, not to return until after Salem). Other teams that have come close to leading from start to finish (Carthage in 01-02, Wash U in 02-03) didn't finish the job.

QuoteI just don't think human reasoning is going to figure anything out.

To quote theologian and Christian apologist Ravi Zacharias:

"God has put enough into this world to make faith in him a most reasonable thing. But he has left enough out to make it impossible to live by reason alone."

He's talking about the Christian faith, but this is transferable to our beliefs about certain basketball teams as well.

The evidence from the past can only take us so far. It can make "belief" in the quality, talent, and veracity in a team a most reasonable thing. But in the end, we must take the final step of faith, in believing that a team is, indeed, of the quality that we ascribe to them by ranking them in a certain spot.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 06, 2014, 09:36:26 PM
Looks like another week with the poll's being a mess.
WPI loses at home to Emerson, Wesley loses at 4-16 York, Virginia Wesleyan & St. Mary's both suffer home losses (though St. Mary's was to a top 12 opponent), Wittenberg a team that had dropped out of almost every person's poll wins @ Ohio Wesleyan who has been steading climbing.  AMC gives up 104 points to Anna Maria and narrowly advances with a win.  And this is all before Saturday!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 07, 2014, 07:31:03 AM
Quote from: John Gleich on February 06, 2014, 05:56:19 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 05, 2014, 10:47:15 PM
We all had Point #1, pretty solidly, but I don't think even their most ardent UWSP supporter would call that a "championship team" by any traditional measure. 

Ardent UWSP supporter I am and ardently disagree with this statement I do!


You're saying, if you looked at this team in complete isolation, without knowing anything about any of the other squads out there, you'd say, "this is a team likely to win a championship?"

I'm fine if you do say that, but I'd be surprised.  Whoever wins this year is going to go down as among the weakest champions of the last decade.  I just don't see any team out there I'd like to even make a Final Four in most other years.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 07, 2014, 01:16:46 PM
Or, conversely, there's more parity and that makes the strongest teams look 'weaker' by comparison because they aren't throttling the mid-pack teams.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: madzillagd on February 07, 2014, 01:48:30 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 07, 2014, 07:31:03 AM
Whoever wins this year is going to go down as among the weakest champions of the last decade.  I just don't see any team out there I'd like to even make a Final Four in most other years.

I think that's painting with a pretty broad brush.  I know a few of the Williams supporters that have been around awhile were saying this is the most talented team at Williams in many years if not ever in their time following the team.  But, as often happens Williams has been hit with injuries that have knocked key players out for long stretches.  Their AA center Mayer missed 5 games and has been playing his way back into shape, the starting PG Rooke-Ley has missed the last 5 games and is still out, now the other AA player Epley is out with an injury and will likely miss several games, Wohl has been playing hurt all year.  It will be interesting to see if tonight they actually start all 3 of the freshmen on their roster.  With all that being said they are still 17-3 on the year and if they were to get everyone back and make a deep run, I would not think of them as a weak team at all. 

That's just one example, I think the IWU year has been very similar as well - a team with a lot of talent that has gone through some ups and downs that I wouldn't consider a 'weak' team if they are able to pull it all together for a tournament run. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 07, 2014, 02:32:21 PM
I bet if we looked around and compared to past seasons, more of the top teams are playing more games against the top teams.

As an example
Wheaton v Wooster
Wheaton v Wittenberg

Doesn't happen in past seasons.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on February 07, 2014, 03:16:26 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 07, 2014, 07:31:03 AM
Quote from: John Gleich on February 06, 2014, 05:56:19 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 05, 2014, 10:47:15 PM
We all had Point #1, pretty solidly, but I don't think even their most ardent UWSP supporter would call that a "championship team" by any traditional measure. 

Ardent UWSP supporter I am and ardently disagree with this statement I do!


You're saying, if you looked at this team in complete isolation, without knowing anything about any of the other squads out there, you'd say, "this is a team likely to win a championship?"

I'm fine if you do say that, but I'd be surprised.  Whoever wins this year is going to go down as among the weakest champions of the last decade.  I just don't see any team out there I'd like to even make a Final Four in most other years.

It's impossible to look at any team in complete isolation.  All teams (and our perception of them) are based on the results of who they've played.

I mean, if you really want isolation, just go back and look at the preseason poll. It won't ultimately be completely helpful, though, because those teams are a mashup of past success and perceived potential. But that potential isn't always ultimately realized.


I don't get how isolation helps though. You're comparing (potential) champions to past champions. Doesn't that necessitate comparison, instead of isolation?


And what are you looking to compare, ultimately? A team's high when they're playing their best? How they're playing when they're at their lowest? Their general consistency over time?

Every team has ups and downs.


Personally, I think this Stevens Point team is better than the 2010 version that brought home the Walnut and Bronze.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 07, 2014, 06:22:48 PM
Quote from: John Gleich on February 07, 2014, 03:16:26 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 07, 2014, 07:31:03 AM
Quote from: John Gleich on February 06, 2014, 05:56:19 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 05, 2014, 10:47:15 PM
We all had Point #1, pretty solidly, but I don't think even their most ardent UWSP supporter would call that a "championship team" by any traditional measure. 

Ardent UWSP supporter I am and ardently disagree with this statement I do!


You're saying, if you looked at this team in complete isolation, without knowing anything about any of the other squads out there, you'd say, "this is a team likely to win a championship?"

I'm fine if you do say that, but I'd be surprised.  Whoever wins this year is going to go down as among the weakest champions of the last decade.  I just don't see any team out there I'd like to even make a Final Four in most other years.

It's impossible to look at any team in complete isolation.  All teams (and our perception of them) are based on the results of who they've played.

I mean, if you really want isolation, just go back and look at the preseason poll. It won't ultimately be completely helpful, though, because those teams are a mashup of past success and perceived potential. But that potential isn't always ultimately realized.


I don't get how isolation helps though. You're comparing (potential) champions to past champions. Doesn't that necessitate comparison, instead of isolation?


And what are you looking to compare, ultimately? A team's high when they're playing their best? How they're playing when they're at their lowest? Their general consistency over time?

Every team has ups and downs.


Personally, I think this Stevens Point team is better than the 2010 version that brought home the Walnut and Bronze.

I'm not going to argue.  You would know better than me.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: madzillagd on February 07, 2014, 06:28:09 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 07, 2014, 06:22:48 PM

I'm not going to argue. 

Is that allowed?  ???
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nescac1 on February 07, 2014, 10:05:31 PM
Hoops Fan, I strongly disagree.  In fact, I feel like the top of D3 is very strong this year -- I think there are at least four teams this year, maybe as many as six, that are more talented than two teams from each of the past two Final Fours.  And I think Stevens Point is about on par with the last two champions. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Titan Q on February 08, 2014, 08:58:16 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 07, 2014, 07:31:03 AM
Whoever wins this year is going to go down as among the weakest champions of the last decade.  I just don't see any team out there I'd like to even make a Final Four in most other years.

I also strongly disagree with this...I think there are several great teams out there that are every bit as good, or better than, Final Four teams in the last 5 years or so.  As I've watched games all season (online), I've been considering 2013-14 as a really good one for Division III.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 08, 2014, 11:15:23 AM
Quote from: smedindy on February 07, 2014, 01:16:46 PM
Or, conversely, there's more parity and that makes the strongest teams look 'weaker' by comparison because they aren't throttling the mid-pack teams.

I agree with this, however. Well, except for a few conferences. As discussed before, the MWC comes to mind. I think the whole conference is down, making St. Norbert possibly look better than they are. But there are conferences that are doing very well as a whole. I think the jury is still out on the Green Knights and will be until the tourney comes and they play someone other than the MWC.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 09, 2014, 05:59:30 PM
Just sent mine in.  Not as difficult as I thought it would be.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 09, 2014, 07:53:50 PM
I found 1-9 quite easy.*  From 10-19 was really, really hard - every candidate was deeply flawed in some way or other.  20-25 was easier: teams I was pretty sure I wanted barely in the Top 25; just had to decide where.

Top 9: probably 5 minutes.  20-25: probably less than that, since such few points will barely register anyway.  10-19: over an hour. :P

*7express, our top 9 are identical, except for flipping 4,5 and 7,8!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 10, 2014, 06:57:21 AM

Yeah, it wasn't too bad.

I am happy St. Olaf and St. Thomas are playing again this week.  That should settle some things in my mind.

Also, I'll announce my last team out this week: #26, Mt. Union.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 10, 2014, 07:01:20 AM
Mine is in as well, earlier than my normal Monday night ballot.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: hopefan on February 10, 2014, 10:44:56 AM
retirement will allow the old hopefan join in this kind of fun next season!!   ;D ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 10, 2014, 10:32:02 PM
sac has joined us (but hinted this may be his only week - hopefully he'll somehow find the time to continue).  We've now had 10 different voters this season - it would be nice if they all would vote the same week!  (Haven't heard from John Gleich since week 2, and hopefully KnightSlappy was not just a one-time voter.  I have faith in the loyalty of FCGriz; he never votes before Tuesday anyway, so I'm not worried.  Don't know what happened to such long-time voters as Ralph and Gregory.)

And hopefan, glad to see you intend to join - just don't put TOO many SLIAC teams in the top 10! ;D

We're currently up to seven - keep 'em coming!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 10, 2014, 11:30:02 PM
Has Ralph even been on the boards this year? I haven't seen him any where I've been. ??? With McMurray moving up to D2 I was afraid we may lose him. Or find that his time on the boards will be greatly reduced. He was on early in the season when we were choosing teams for the Undefeated pool (IIRC) but haven't spotted him since. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 10, 2014, 11:50:03 PM
Quote from: magicman on February 10, 2014, 11:30:02 PM
Has Ralph even been on the boards this year? I haven't seen him any where I've been. ??? With McMurray moving up to D2 I was afraid we may lose him. Or find that his time on the boards will be greatly reduced. He was on early in the season when we were choosing teams for the Undefeated pool (IIRC) but haven't spotted him since.

McMurry had decided to rejoin D3.  But Ralph may be rather distracted.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 11, 2014, 08:24:49 AM
I won't be making it in this week, hopefully back next week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 11, 2014, 08:29:48 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 10, 2014, 10:32:02 PM
sac has joined us (but hinted this may be his only week - hopefully he'll somehow find the time to continue).  We've now had 10 different voters this season - it would be nice if they all would vote the same week!  (Haven't heard from John Gleich since week 2, and hopefully KnightSlappy was not just a one-time voter.  I have faith in the loyalty of FCGriz; he never votes before Tuesday anyway, so I'm not worried.  Don't know what happened to such long-time voters as Ralph and Gregory.)

And hopefan, glad to see you intend to join - just don't put TOO many SLIAC teams in the top 10! ;D

We're currently up to seven
- keep 'em coming!

So you have seven SLIAC in the Top 10?  ???  ;D  ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 11, 2014, 05:57:08 PM
I'll post the poll around 9 or so, unless I receive a request for more time.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 11, 2014, 08:49:12 PM
POSTERS' POLL, 2-9-14:

1.  UWSP          200  (unanimous)
2.  Cabrini         186 (2,2,2,2,2,2,3,7)
3.  IWU             178 (2,2,3,3,3,4,5,8)
4.  UWW            172 (3,4,4,4,4,5,5,7)
5.  WashU          162 (3,3,3,4,5,9,9,10)
6.  Wooster        156 (5,6,6,6,6,7,8,8)
7.  Amherst        152 (5,5,5,6,7,7,8,13)
8.  St. Norbert    139 (6,6,7,9,9,10,11,11)
t9. Wesley          121 (6,8,9,10,10,12,14,16)
t9. Williams         121 (7,8,9,9,9,12,13,20)
11. Brockport      114 (4,10,10,11,11,12,18,18)
12. St. Thomas    105 (4,10,11,11,12,14,17,24)
13. M. Washington 94 (8,10,11,12,13,17,20,23)
14. Purchase         82 (7,13,14,14,15,16,21,-)
15. TX-Dallas        63 (8,13,15,15,18,20,20,-)
16. WPI                57 (13,13,16,17,17,23,-,-)
17. Randy Mac      55 (12,14,14,16,22,23,-,-)
18. Wittenberg      52 (15,16,17,19,20,21,22,-)
19. A. Magnus       49 (14,15,18,19,20,21,-,-)
20. Ohio Wes         41 (15,16,17,22,22,23,-,-)
21. Bowdoin           40 (16,18,18,19,20,25,-,-)
22. Wheaton          34 (12,14,21,24,25,-,-,-)
23. Marietta           31 (11,15,22,25,-,-,-,-)
24. Whitworth        30 (17,19,19,19,-,-,-,-)
25. Dubuque          28 (12,19,21,24,-,-,-,-)

26. Va Wes             20 (16,19,23)
t27 St. Olaf             18 (17,22,24,24,25)
t27 Staten Island     18 (18,20,22)
t29 Messiah             13 (15,24)
t29 Plattsburgh        13 (13)
t31 Centre               11 (21,23,24,25)
t31 St. Mary's          11 (18,23)
t33 Augie                  5 (21)
t33 Scranton             5 (21)
t35 Geneseo              4 (23,25)
t35 R. Stockton          4 (22)
37. Mt. Union             3 (24,25)
38. C-M-S                  1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 11, 2014, 09:04:57 PM
I was mildly surprised (but only mildly) that Point was still unanimously #1.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 11, 2014, 09:47:07 PM
I feel like everyone is ranking Amherst and Williams high simply because they're NESCAC.

1.  UWSP          200  (unan1mous)
2.  Cabrini         186 (2,2,2,2,2,2,3,7)
3.  IWU             178 (2,2,3,3,3,4,5,8)
4.  UWW            172 (3,4,4,4,4,5,5,7)
5.  WashU          162 (3,3,3,4,5,9,9,10)
6.  Wooster        156 (5,6,6,6,6,7,8,8)
7.  Amherst *       152 (5,5,5,6,7,7,8,13)
8.  St. Norbert    139 (6,6,7,9,9,10,11,11)
t9. Wesley          121 (6,8,9,10,10,12,14,16)
t9. Williams *        121 (7,8,9,9,9,12,13,20)
11. Brockport      114 (4,10,10,11,11,12,18,18)
12. St. Thomas    105 (4,10,11,11,12,14,17,24)
13. M. Washington* 94 (8,10,11,12,13,17,20,23)
14. Purchase *        82 (7,13,14,14,15,16,21,-)
15. TX-Dallas        63 (8,13,15,15,18,20,20,-)
16. WPI                57 (13,13,16,17,17,23,-,*)
17. Randy Mac      55 (12,14,14,16,22,23,-,-)
18. Wittenberg *     52 (15,16,17,19,20,21,22,*)
19. A. Magnus *      49 (14,15,18,19,20,21,-,-)
20. Ohio Wes         41 (15,16,17,22,22,23,-,-)
21. Bowdoin           40 (16,18,18,19,20,25,-,*)
22. Wheaton          34 (12,14,21,24,25,-,-,*)
23. Marietta           31 (11,15,22,25,-,-,-,*)
24. Whitworth        30 (17,19,19,19,-,-,-,-)
25. Dubuque *         28 (12,19,21,24,-,-,-,-)

26. Va Wes             20 (16,19,23)
t27 St. Olaf             18 (17,22,24,24,25)
t27 Staten Island *    18 (18,20,22)
t29 Messiah             13 (15,24)
t29 Plattsburgh        13 (13)
t31 Centre               11 (21,23,24,25)
t31 St. Mary's          11 (18,23)
t33 Augie                  5 (21)
t33 Scranton *            5 (21)
t35 Geneseo *             4 (23,25)
t35 R. Stockton          4 (22)
37. Mt. Union             3 (24,25)
38. C-M-S                  1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 11, 2014, 11:57:01 PM
2 people still have St. Mary's ranked?? :o
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 12, 2014, 12:26:10 AM
I think its interesting Marietta is getting a vote at 11, while OAC conference leader Mt. Union who also beat Marietta is no higher than 24.

More interesting still is I voted for neither.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 12, 2014, 08:25:23 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 11, 2014, 09:04:57 PM
I was mildly surprised (but only mildly) that Point was still unanimously #1.

I know it was after the poll closed, but they only beat Cairn by seven points. Cairn!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 12, 2014, 08:26:46 AM
Quote from: 7express on February 11, 2014, 11:57:01 PM
2 people still have St. Mary's ranked??

I'm very high on the CAC this year.  I keep trying to find ways to justify getting Salisbury in there.

Just a heads up, my final, post tournament poll may or may not sneak Salisbury and UMHB into the last two spots.  Those are good teams, even if they can't seem to string together wins this year.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 12, 2014, 08:58:03 AM
Amongst the 1 loss teams... everyone except for myself has St Norbert several spots higher than Purchase... I'm curious as to why. Both teams lost by similar margins to ranked teams (StN 11 to WW, Purchase 9 to Alb Magnus). Neither has played a stellar schedule. Norbert's best win is an OT win @ Grinnell while Purchase beat Brockport.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 12, 2014, 09:18:31 AM
How good are you if you can't string together wins?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 12, 2014, 11:47:41 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 12, 2014, 08:25:23 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 11, 2014, 09:04:57 PM
I was mildly surprised (but only mildly) that Point was still unanimously #1.

I know it was after the poll closed, but they only beat Cairn by seven points. Cairn!

They let off the gas, two players were out, and they have FOUR games this week. They probably just wanted to get the W and get outta there.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 12, 2014, 11:50:13 AM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 12, 2014, 08:58:03 AM
Amongst the 1 loss teams... everyone except for myself has St Norbert several spots higher than Purchase... I'm curious as to why. Both teams lost by similar margins to ranked teams (StN 11 to WW, Purchase 9 to Alb Magnus). Neither has played a stellar schedule. Norbert's best win is an OT win @ Grinnell while Purchase beat Brockport.

There's a big difference between WW and Magnus. (2nd vs 46th in Massey).

St. Norbert's Massey is 8th and Purchase is 27th. St. Norbert's schedule is 168th and Purchase is 281 (in the bottom half of D3).

That's why.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: madzillagd on February 12, 2014, 12:13:10 PM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 11, 2014, 09:47:07 PM
I feel like everyone is ranking Amherst and Williams high simply because they're NESCAC.

???   Isn't that why people rank the CCIW teams high, and the WIAC teams high, and the....    We give more credit to the schools that play in the better conferences.  The NESCAC has proven year in and year out that it is one of the better conferences so it makes sense that folks would recognize that.  If you look back at the last 11 years with those two schools, Amherst and Williams have combined for 14 appearances in the Sweet Sixteen or better.  14 appearances in 22 chances =  64% of the time they've finished in the top 16 teams in the country. 

Compare that with Albertus Magnus that you put at #14.  In that same time period they've made the tournament 3 times (someone correct me if I'm wrong) and have lost in the first or second round every time.  Given that track record are you indicating that AM is that much better this year that they are likely going to make the Sweet Sixteen? 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 12, 2014, 01:12:16 PM
Quote from: madzillagd on February 12, 2014, 12:13:10 PM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 11, 2014, 09:47:07 PM
I feel like everyone is ranking Amherst and Williams high simply because they're NESCAC.

???   Isn't that why people rank the CCIW teams high, and the WIAC teams high, and the....    We give more credit to the schools that play in the better conferences.  The NESCAC has proven year in and year out that it is one of the better conferences so it makes sense that folks would recognize that.  If you look back at the last 11 years with those two schools, Amherst and Williams have combined for 14 appearances in the Sweet Sixteen or better.  14 appearances in 22 chances =  64% of the time they've finished in the top 16 teams in the country. 

Compare that with Albertus Magnus that you put at #14.  In that same time period they've made the tournament 3 times (someone correct me if I'm wrong) and have lost in the first or second round every time.  Given that track record are you indicating that AM is that much better this year that they are likely going to make the Sweet Sixteen?
I can understand early in the season giving more weight to the "power" conferences because we just don't know much about the current group of players... but we're more than 20 games into the season. We should worry more about the current teams rather than teams from several years ago because their eligibility has expired ;)
Considering you just have to play 2 good games and you could make the Sweet 16, I'd consider at least 40-50 teams that make the tournament should have a realistic shot at making the last 16. I don't know that I'd label anyone other than maybe UWSP as likely to make the Sweet 16 though.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 12, 2014, 01:23:01 PM
Purchase has a 7-2 center who appears competent at basketball.

Joel Neri 27 min.  16.3pts, 8 rbs,


Going out on a limb and saying he's the guy in the middle.
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.purchasecollegeathletics.com%2Fimages%2F2013%2F12%2F3%2Flarge_2013SUNYPMBB-31.jpg&hash=f5de30bad1855c399fde71ebf281286a01704533)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: madzillagd on February 12, 2014, 01:58:39 PM
Nice guess.

Went to the UC Davis vs UC Irvine game this past weekend.  UC Irvine starts a 7'6 center and his backup is 7'2.  They've got a 3rd 7'0 guy on the roster but he's redshirting this year I believe.  The 7'6 guy was fantastic at dunking without leaving the ground, the problem was the 5 steps he took without dribbling each time to accomplish it.   :P
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nescac1 on February 12, 2014, 03:03:00 PM
I think Williams and Amherst are ranked appropriately -- I don't see any team behind them which is in either's class, talent-wise.  How much lower should they be?  If anything, I think both of them have talent level a bit higher than their ranking (higher than a few teams above them, certainly) -- I put both in the top six, talent-wise, in D3.  Amherst DID win the national title last year, after all, and does feature one of the best three players (at worst) in America in Aaron Toomey -- who has been absolutely dominating games of late, two other strong seniors who played key roles on last year's title team and who are improved as they have stepped into bigger roles, another guy who can light it up in Green, and a very, very imposing center platoon. 

Williams features the best freshman (and one of the best players, period) in America in Duncan Robinson, an elite center who, after being limited by illness and injury earlier in the year is now playing like the all-American he was projected to be in Michael Mayer, and a group of solid supporting players in Daniel Wohl, Taylor Epley, Hayden Rooke-Ley, Ryan Kilcullen and Mike Greenman, all of whom can both shoot threes and get to the basket.  Despite missing two starters due to injury (both of whom will be back at some point), Williams dominated three games last week, two of them conference games and one vs. a solid Stevens squad.  Williams seems to be coming together at the right time and sure looked like a top 10, at worst, team to me over the past week. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pjunito on February 12, 2014, 03:39:04 PM
I think regardless of the conference; the roster and the way the team is playing should carry more weight. If Williams and Amherst played in the NECC (not a strong conference), their rosters and how they are playing right now should make them a top 10 team. It is difficult to judge how good a team is without watching them play at least 5 games. Therefore, I think at the D3 level, we tend to look more at traditional powerhouse conferences and give them more credit. I don't buy into that. I believe a team (regardless of the conference) could make the sweet 16 if they have talented enough players who play well together.

Let's take Albertus Magnus (they play in the GNAC) for example, which is a bad conference. Here is how the GNAC faired in the NCAAs the last 4 season.

2010 - Albertus lost in second round
2011 - Johnson and Wales lost in second round
2012 - Albertus lost in second round
2013 - Albertus lost in first round

This is a one team goes to tournament league and they are have 3 wins in the last 4 years in the NCAA tournament, (just one win away from the holy grail aka the sweet sixteen). The conference is bad! But, the top team those four years were much better than what was perceived.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: madzillagd on February 12, 2014, 03:59:51 PM
Well it's safe to say the NCAA committee didn't agree with the Albertus over Am/Wi thinking.   Pretty surprised to see them below Springfield though. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 12, 2014, 04:20:26 PM
Quote from: pjunito on February 12, 2014, 03:39:04 PM
Let's take Albertus Magnus (they play in the GNAC) for example, which is a bad conference. Here is how the GNAC faired in the NCAAs the last 4 season.

2010 - Albertus lost in second round zero votes
2011 - Johnson and Wales lost in second round zero votes
2012 - Albertus lost in second round 16th
2013 - Albertus lost in first round 4votes last reg. season poll

This is a one team goes to tournament league and they are have 3 wins in the last 4 years in the NCAA tournament, (just one win away from the holy grail aka the sweet sixteen). The conference is bad! But, the top team those four years were much better than what was perceived.

Shouldn't they advance past the 1st weekend then?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 12, 2014, 04:35:51 PM
Quote from: madzillagd on February 12, 2014, 01:58:39 PM
Nice guess.

Went to the UC Davis vs UC Irvine game this past weekend.  UC Irvine starts a 7'6 center and his backup is 7'2.  They've got a 3rd 7'0 guy on the roster but he's redshirting this year I believe.  The 7'6 guy was fantastic at dunking without leaving the ground, the problem was the 5 steps he took without dribbling each time to accomplish it.   :P

The 7'6 player is a freshman named Mamadou Ndiaye, and he's shooting 75.7% from the field.
The 7'2 player is also a freshman from Greece named Ioannis Dimakopoulos.

So they have some all name players there.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 12, 2014, 04:43:50 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 12, 2014, 04:35:51 PM
Quote from: madzillagd on February 12, 2014, 01:58:39 PM
Nice guess.

Went to the UC Davis vs UC Irvine game this past weekend.  UC Irvine starts a 7'6 center and his backup is 7'2.  They've got a 3rd 7'0 guy on the roster but he's redshirting this year I believe.  The 7'6 guy was fantastic at dunking without leaving the ground, the problem was the 5 steps he took without dribbling each time to accomplish it.   :P

The 7'6 player is a freshman named Mamadou Ndiaye, and he's shooting 75.7% from the field.
The 7'2 player is also a freshman from Greece named Ioannis Dimakopoulos.

So they have some all name players there.

Plus they're the Anteaters
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 12, 2014, 04:56:34 PM
1.  UWSP          200  (unan1mous)
2.  Cabrini         186 (2,2,2,2,2,2,3,7)
3.  IWU             178 (2,2,3,3,3,4,5,8)
4.  UWW            172 (3,4,4,4,4,5,5,7)
5.  WashU          162 (3,3,3,4,5,9,9,10)
6.  Wooster        156 (5,6,6,6,6,7,8,8)
7.  Amherst        152 (5,5,5,6,7,7,8,13)
8.  St. Norbert    139 (6,6,7,9,9,10,11,11)
t9. Wesley          121 (6,8,9,10,10,12,14,16)
t9. Williams         121 (7,8,9,9,9,12,13,20)
11. Brockport      114 (4,10,10,11,11,12,18,18)
12. St. Thomas    105 (4,10,11,11,12,14,17,24)
13. M. Washington 94 (8,10,11,12,13,17,20,23)
14. Purchase         82 (7,13,14,14,15,16,21,-)
15. TX-Dallas*        63 (8,13,15,15,18,20,20,-)
16. WPI                57 (13,13,16,17,17,23,-,-)
17. Randy Mac      55 (12,14,14,16,22,23,-,-)
18. Wittenberg      52 (15,16,17,19,20,21,22,-)
19. A. Magnus       49 (14,15,18,19,20,21,-,-)
20. Ohio Wes         41 (15,16,17,22,22,23,-,-)
21. Bowdoin           40 (16,18,18,19,20,25,-,-)
22. Wheaton          34 (12,14,21,24,25,-,-,-)
23. Marietta           31 (11,15,22,25,-,-,-,-)
24. Whitworth        30 (17,19,19,19,-,-,-,-)
25. Dubuque          28 (12,19,21,24,-,-,-,-)

26. Va Wes             20 (16,19,23)
t27 St. Olaf             18 (17,22,24,24,25)
t27 Staten Island     18 (18,20,22)
t29 Messiah             13 (15,24)
t29 Plattsburgh        13 (13)
t31 Centre               11 (21,23,24,25)
t31 St. Mary's          11 (18,23)
t33 Augie                  5 (21)
t33 Scranton             5 (21)
t35 Geneseo              4 (23,25)
t35 R. Stockton          4 (22)
37. Mt. Union             3 (24,25)
38. C-M-S                  1

Only 1 outlier this week: I have Whitworth 27th, Dubuque NR & Texas-Dallas 32nd.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 13, 2014, 09:30:40 AM

Ok, I may not be able to vote this week.  After last night's results, I don't think I'm going to be able to find 25 teams I'm willing to put on a ballot.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 13, 2014, 11:14:25 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 13, 2014, 09:30:40 AM

Ok, I may not be able to vote this week.  After last night's results, I don't think I'm going to be able to find 25 teams I'm willing to put on a ballot.

Don't wimp out. There are ALWAYS 25 teams you can rank 1-25, unless D-3 shrinks to 24. Besides, the back half of conference season is always full of peril.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pjunito on February 13, 2014, 12:45:37 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 12, 2014, 04:20:26 PM
Quote from: pjunito on February 12, 2014, 03:39:04 PM
Let's take Albertus Magnus (they play in the GNAC) for example, which is a bad conference. Here is how the GNAC faired in the NCAAs the last 4 season.

2010 - Albertus lost in second round zero votes
2011 - Johnson and Wales lost in second round zero votes
2012 - Albertus lost in second round 16th
2013 - Albertus lost in first round 4votes last reg. season poll

This is a one team goes to tournament league and they are have 3 wins in the last 4 years in the NCAA tournament, (just one win away from the holy grail aka the sweet sixteen). The conference is bad! But, the top team those four years were much better than what was perceived.

Shouldn't they advance past the 1st weekend then?

No Greek, the preception was that they would lose in the first round. And 3 out of 4 years they didn't.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 15, 2014, 11:35:16 PM
9 teams from 15-25 in my poll last week lost at least 1 game this week.  I'm thinking of throwing all 9 to the curb this week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 16, 2014, 12:10:41 AM
Quote from: 7express on February 15, 2014, 11:35:16 PM
9 teams from 15-25 in my poll last week lost at least 1 game this week.  I'm thinking of throwing all 9 to the curb this week.

I share your pain - most of the teams I had poised to enter the top 25 lost.

Just remember that there is ALWAYS a Top 25 - whether #26 is the shortest giant who didn't quite make it, or #25 is the tallest midget who is nonetheless the 25th 'best'! ;D

I have a feeling I will be including some 'tall midgets' this week! :P
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 16, 2014, 12:19:29 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 16, 2014, 12:10:41 AM
Quote from: 7express on February 15, 2014, 11:35:16 PM
9 teams from 15-25 in my poll last week lost at least 1 game this week.  I'm thinking of throwing all 9 to the curb this week.

I share your pain - most of the teams I had poised to enter the top 25 lost.

Just remember that there is ALWAYS a Top 25 - whether #26 is the shortest giant who didn't quite make it, or #25 is the tallest midget who is nonetheless the 25th 'best'! ;D

I have a feeling I will be including some 'tall midgets' this week! :P

Even if all 450 schools are 6-15 or worse, you have to make a top 25.  It doesn't stop just because a bunch of teams are average
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pjunito on February 16, 2014, 05:13:58 PM
I don't know... I kind of thing not having a lot of separation between teams 12-30 can make for some fun and interesting games in the NCAA tournament.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 16, 2014, 07:47:43 PM
How many wore weeks are we doing this??

This week, next week, and the following week during conference tournament week, and than a final poll at the conclusion of the tournament??  Am in the process of doing mine, will have it in shortly.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 16, 2014, 08:04:39 PM
Quote from: 7express on February 16, 2014, 07:47:43 PM
How many wore weeks are we doing this??

This week, next week, and the following week during conference tournament week, and than a final poll at the conclusion of the tournament??  Am in the process of doing mine, will have it in shortly.

That is the schedule, yes.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 16, 2014, 08:29:21 PM
My poll's in.  1-10 for the most part was pretty easy, at least to me.  Didn't really have much of a problem with 22-25 either (SOMEONE has to occupy those spots, and the votes for those 4 spots are minuscule at best and will barely register overall anyway).  11-21 was a real PITA.  I bumped up some teams I had screwed in recent weeks (like the Brockport's & Texas Dallas's of the world) and threw darts for the rest and see where it landed.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 17, 2014, 08:27:50 PM
It's pretty late in the process to have only FOUR ballots!  Where is everybody?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 17, 2014, 08:38:41 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 17, 2014, 08:27:50 PM
It's pretty late in the process to have only FOUR ballots!  Where is everybody?
Late in the process? You mean people normally get them turned in before the last minute? ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 17, 2014, 09:00:55 PM

I've been putting it off.  I'm starting now.  1-12 is simple.  Everyone I had 13-19 lost at least one game.  I'm just going to start from scratch for those spots.

I've got 26 teams and 13 spots.  We'll see what happens.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 17, 2014, 09:12:13 PM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 17, 2014, 08:38:41 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 17, 2014, 08:27:50 PM
It's pretty late in the process to have only FOUR ballots!  Where is everybody?
Late in the process? You mean people normally get them turned in before the last minute? ;D

Well, everyone but you. ;D

Most weeks I've gotten at least six ballots by now.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 17, 2014, 10:06:27 PM

I'm in.


Last team in: Ohio Wesleyan

First team out: Scranton
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 18, 2014, 05:00:00 PM
Well, FCGG was 'early' this week, so I had all seven ballots from the regular crew by late last evening.  I'm still hoping to get one or more ballots from intermittent voters sac, Knightslappy, and/or John Gleich - or perhaps one or two surprise voters.  I'll post around 9 this evening unless I get a request for an extension.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 18, 2014, 09:42:09 PM
POSTERS' POLL, February 16, 2014:

1.  UWSP       175 (unaniomous)
2.  IWU          160 (2,2,2,2,3,4,7)
3.  UWW        156 (3,3,3,3,4,4,6)
4.  WashU      151 (2,2,2,3,4,8,10)
5.  Wooster    141 (4,5,5,5,5,8,9)
6.  Amherst    139 (4,4,5,6,7,7,10)
7.  St. Norbert 127 (5,6,6,9,9,9,11)
8.  Cabrini       125 (5,6,7,8,9,11,11)
9.  Wesley       119 (6,7,8,10,10,10,12)
10 Williams     115 (7,7,8,8,9,11,17)
11 Brockport   111 (3,8,10,11,12,12,15)
12 St. Thomas 101 (9,10,11,11,12,13,15)
13 Purchase      95 (6,12,13,14,14,14,14)
14 TX-Dallas     75 (12,14,14,15,15,17,20)
15 WPI             68 (13,13,13,14,16,19,-)
16 A. Magnus    66 (13,15,15,16,17,18,22)
17 Whitworth    56 (16,16,16,16,18,18,-)
18 Staten I.      43 (15,17,17,20,21,23,-)
19 M. Washington 34 (16,19,19,21,23,24,-)
t20 Plattsburgh   29 (12,20,20,24,25,-,-)
t20 Randy Mac    29 (13,18,22,23,25,-,-)
22 OWU             27 (17,19,20,22,25,-,-)
23 Bowdoin        22 (18,21,21,22,-,-,-)
24 Wheaton       19 (17,18,24,-,-,-,-)
25 Scranton        16 (18,21,24,25,-,-,-)

t26 St. Olaf         11 (20,24,24,25)
t26 Dickinson      11 (19,22)
28 Geneseo          9 (20,23)
t29 Mt. Union       8 (21,23)
t29 Wittenberg     8 (22,22)
t31 Marietta         7 (19)
t31 Calvin            7 (19)
33 Centre             5 (21)
t34 RHIT              3 (24,25)
t34 Babson           3 (23)
t34 R. Stockton     3 (23)
37 Messiah           1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 18, 2014, 09:50:05 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 18, 2014, 09:42:09 PM
t31 Calvin            7 (19)

http://miaa.org/sports/mbkb/2013-14/index
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 18, 2014, 09:51:06 PM
POSTERS' POLL, February 16, 2014:

1.  UWSP       175 (unan1omous)
2.  IWU          160 (2,2,2,2,3,4,7)
3.  UWW        156 (3,3,3,3,4,4,6)
4.  WashU      151 (2,2,2,3,4,8,10)
5.  Wooster    141 (4,5,5,5,5,8,9)
6.  Amherst    139 (4,4,5,6,7,7,10)
7.  St. Norbert 127 (5,6,6,9,9,9,11)
8.  Cabrini       125 (5,6,7,8,9,11,11)
9.  Wesley       119 (6,7,8,10,10,10,12)
10 Williams     115 (7,7,8,8,9,11,17)
11 Brockport   111 (3,8,10,11,12,12,15)
12 St. Thomas 101 (9,10,11,11,12,13,15)
13 Purchase      95 (6,12,13,14,14,14,14)
14 TX-Dallas*     75 (12,14,14,15,15,17,20)
15 WPI             68 (13,13,13,14,16,19,-)
16 A. Magnus    66 (13,15,15,16,17,18,22)
17 Whitworth    56 (16,16,16,16,18,18,-)
18 Staten I.      43 (15,17,17,20,21,23,-)
19 M. Washington 34 (16,19,19,21,23,24,-)
t20 Plattsburgh   29 (12,20,20,24,25,-,-)
t20 Randy Mac    29 (13,18,22,23,25,-,-)
22 OWU             27 (17,19,20,22,25,-,-)
23 Bowdoin        22 (18,21,21,22,-,-,-)
24 Wheaton       19 (17,18,24,-,-,-,-)
25 Scranton        16 (18,21,24,25,-,-,-)

t26 St. Olaf         11 (20,24,24,25)
t26 Dickinson      11 (19,22)
28 Geneseo          9 (20,23)
t29 Mt. Union       8 (21,23)
t29 Wittenberg     8 (22,22)
t31 Marietta         7 (19)
t31 Calvin*            7 (19)
33 Centre             5 (21)
t34 RHIT              3 (24,25)
t34 Babson*           3 (23)
t34 R. Stockton     3 (23)
37 Messiah           1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 18, 2014, 09:51:51 PM
Sorry to have posted so much later than I predicted.  There was an obvious error in the tabulations - 37 teams named, but the last place team was #36!  The error (probably because I had made it; if looking at someone else's tabulations I probably would have spotted it quickly) took me almost half an hour to find! 

The problem with self-editing: if you made the error, you will probably make it over and over until you finally go 'AHA'!

BTW, don't bother to ask: my self-protective memory has already forgotten just what the error was. :-[
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 18, 2014, 10:02:15 PM
I think there's still some errors in your tabulation Ypsi... I had Dickinson 21st. Did my sending my ballot in early throw you off? ;D

1.  UWSP       175 (unan1mous)
2.  IWU          160 (2,2,2,2,3,4,7)
3.  UWW        156 (3,3,3,3,4,4,6)
4.  WashU      151 (2,2,2,3,4,8,10)
5.  Wooster    141 (4,5,5,5,5,8,9)
6.  Amherst*    139 (4,4,5,6,7,7,10)
7.  St. Norbert 127 (5,6,6,9,9,9,11)
8.  Cabrini       125 (5,6,7,8,9,11,11)
9.  Wesley       119 (6,7,8,10,10,10,12)
10 Williams*     115 (7,7,8,8,9,11,17)
11 Brockport   111 (3,8,10,11,12,12,15)
12 St. Thomas 101 (9,10,11,11,12,13,15)
13 Purchase*     95 (6,12,13,14,14,14,14)
14 TX-Dallas     75 (12,14,14,15,15,17,20)
15 WPI             68 (13,13,13,14,16,19,-)
16 A. Magnus*    66 (13,15,15,16,17,18,22)
17 Whitworth    56 (16,16,16,16,18,18,-)
18 Staten I.*      43 (15,17,17,20,21,23,-)
19 M. Washington 34 (16,19,19,21,23,24,-)
t20 Plattsburgh   29 (12,20,20,24,25,-,-)
t20 Randy Mac    29 (13,18,22,23,25,-,-)
22 OWU             27 (17,19,20,22,25,-,*)
23 Bowdoin        22 (18,21,21,22,-,-,*)
24 Wheaton       19 (17,18,24,-,-,-,*)
25 Scranton*        16 (18,21,24,25,-,-,-)

t26 St. Olaf         11 (20,24,24,25)
t26 Dickinson      11 (19,22) 21
28 Geneseo          9 (20,23)
t29 Mt. Union       8 (21,23)
t29 Wittenberg     8 (22,22)
t31 Marietta         7 (19)
t31 Calvin            7 (19)
33 Centre             5 (21)
t34 RHIT              3 (24,25)
t34 Babson           3 (23)
t34 R. Stockton     3 (23)
37 Messiah           1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 18, 2014, 10:15:39 PM
I recorded FCGG's vote for Dickinson as a vote for Mt. Union (the line right above it on my tally sheet).  Also, I have received a ballot from sac (he PM'd me before I actually posted the poll, but I didn't see it in time).  I'm planning a revised poll in about an hour.  If anyone spots any other obvious errors, let me know ASAP.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 18, 2014, 11:53:05 PM
POSTERS' POLL (CORRECTED), 2-16-14:

1.  UWSP                200 (unanimous)
2.  IWU                  184 (2,2,2,2,2,3,4,7)
3.  UWW                 179 (3,3,3,3,3,4,4,6)
4.  WashU               170 (2,2,2,3,4,8,9,10)
5.  Wooster             161 (4,5,5,5,5,6,8,9)
6.  Amherst             160 (4,4,5,5,6,7,7,10)
7.  St. Norbert         144 (5,6,6,7,9,9,9,11)
8.  Cabrini               141 (5,6,7,8,9,10,11,11)
9.  Williams             133 (7,7,8,8,8,9,11,17)
10  Wesley              131 (6,7,8,10,10,10,12,14)
11  Brockport          125 (3,8,10,11,12,12,12,15)
12  St. Thomas        123 (4,9,10,11,11,12,13,15)
13  Purchase             95 (6,12,13,13,14,14,14,-)
14  TX-Dallas            90 (11,12,14,14,15,15,17,20)
15  WPI                    76 (13,13,13,14,16,18,19,-)
16  Whitworth           67 (15,16,16,16,16,18,18,-)
17  A. Magnus           66 (13,15,15,16,17,18,22,-)
18  M. Washington     44 (16,16,19,19,21,23,24,-)
19  Staten Island       43 (15,17,17,20,21,23,-,-)
20  Plattsburgh          33 (12,20,20,22,24,25,-,-)
21  Wheaton              32 (13,17,18,24,-,-,-,-)
22  Randy Mac           29 (13,18,22,23,25,-,-,-)
23  Bowdoin              28 (18,20,21,21,22,-,-,-)
24  OWU                    27 (17,19,20,22,25,-,-,-)
t25 Scranton              17 (18,21,24,25,25,-,-,-)
t25 Wittenberg           17 (17,22,22,-,-,-,-,-)

27  Dickinson             16 (19,21,22)
28  St. Olaf                14 (20,23,24,24,25)
29  Centre                 12 (19,21)
t30 Geneseo               9 (20,23)
t30 Augustana            9 (17)
t32 Calvin                  7 (19)
t32 Marietta               7 (19)
34  Va Wes                5 (21)
t35 RHIT                    3 (24,25)
t35 Babson                 3 (23)
t35 Mt. Union             3 (23)
t35 R. Stockton          3 (23)
39  Claremont-M-S     2 (24)
40  Messiah                1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 19, 2014, 09:34:58 AM
Quote from: sac on February 18, 2014, 09:50:05 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 18, 2014, 09:42:09 PM
t31 Calvin            7 (19)

http://miaa.org/sports/mbkb/2013-14/index

To put it bluntly - I have a hard time accepting any votes from someone who made this selection.  I do understand the rigors of participating (I have done it myself in the past) but seriously???  Is this a vote for who are the best 25 teams in the country (based on their actual performance) or is it simply who the voter likes best? 

And please know this is not about Hope receiving no votes.  I totally understand peoples reluctance to vote for a team with that many losses (although I bet we could have a wonderful debate about their potential ranking with that lofty SOS).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 19, 2014, 11:13:55 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 19, 2014, 09:34:58 AM
Quote from: sac on February 18, 2014, 09:50:05 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 18, 2014, 09:42:09 PM
t31 Calvin            7 (19)

http://miaa.org/sports/mbkb/2013-14/index

To put it bluntly - I have a hard time accepting any votes from someone who made this selection.  I do understand the rigors of participating (I have done it myself in the past) but seriously???  Is this a vote for who are the best 25 teams in the country (based on their actual performance) or is it simply who the voter likes best? 

And please know this is not about Hope receiving no votes.  I totally understand peoples reluctance to vote for a team with that many losses (although I bet we could have a wonderful debate about their potential ranking with that lofty SOS).

It should be noted that I didn't turn in a ballot. So it probably wasn't a 'Calvin fan' homer pick (I'm not aware of any other Calvin fans who have been voting).

But, yes, thank you sac for linking to the standings to point out that, at 18-5, Calvin has the best record of any MIAA school.  ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 19, 2014, 11:24:41 AM
Calvin is #34 in Massey. So it's not a huge outlier...
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 19, 2014, 11:42:11 AM

I was keeping Calvin in the running for a while; they are clearly the most impressive MIAA team this year.  Then they got walloped by Hope, who is not good this year.  That sealed the deal for me.  I could see someone closer to the situation making a more detailed determination on it.

Quite frankly, I'm not surprised by any school people rank below about 12 or 15.  There are just no great candidates and so many borderline ones this year.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Titan Q on February 19, 2014, 11:46:47 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 19, 2014, 11:42:11 AM

I was keeping Calvin in the running for a while; they are clearly the most impressive MIAA team this year.  Then they got walloped by Hope, who is not good this year.  That sealed the deal for me.  I could see someone closer to the situation making a more detailed determination on it.


I feel like Hope is a Top 25 team...somewhere between 20-25.

If Hope had Cabrini's schedule, they're be ranked about #3 right now and everyone would think they're awesome.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 19, 2014, 11:52:52 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 19, 2014, 11:42:11 AM

I was keeping Calvin in the running for a while; they are clearly the most impressive MIAA team this year.  Then they got walloped by Hope, who is not good this year.  That sealed the deal for me.  I could see someone closer to the situation making a more detailed determination on it.

Quite frankly, I'm not surprised by any school people rank below about 12 or 15.  There are just no great candidates and so many borderline ones this year.

I think you're begging the question here. Hope being "not good this year" is a statement that should be backed up by evidence. They've won 16 of their last 18, including wins over Calvin (2), Carthage, and Centre (and only one of those was at home).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 19, 2014, 01:19:30 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on February 19, 2014, 11:46:47 AM


I feel like Hope is a Top 25 team...somewhere between 20-25.

If Hope had Cabrini's schedule, they're be ranked about #3 right now and everyone would think they're awesome.
[/quote]

The power numbers wouldn't fib, though. Cabrini is 17 and Hope is 23 in Massey. So, yeah, practically even steven.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 19, 2014, 01:52:03 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 19, 2014, 01:19:30 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on February 19, 2014, 11:46:47 AM
I feel like Hope is a Top 25 team...somewhere between 20-25.

If Hope had Cabrini's schedule, they're be ranked about #3 right now and everyone would think they're awesome.

The power numbers wouldn't fib, though. Cabrini is 17 and Hope is 23 in Massey. So, yeah, practically even steven.

Massey SOS

Hope - 11
Cabrini - 183
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 19, 2014, 02:55:35 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on February 19, 2014, 11:46:47 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 19, 2014, 11:42:11 AM

I was keeping Calvin in the running for a while; they are clearly the most impressive MIAA team this year.  Then they got walloped by Hope, who is not good this year.  That sealed the deal for me.  I could see someone closer to the situation making a more detailed determination on it.


I feel like Hope is a Top 25 team...somewhere between 20-25.

If Hope had Cabrini's schedule, they're be ranked about #3 right now and everyone would think they're awesome.

I'm not convinced Cabrini is a good team.  I've watched them play more over the last three or four years than any other school.  Yes, the have quite possibly the best player in the country, but that team does not look good.  You watch them on the floor and they're fearless and aggressive, but they don't appear overly talented.  They just seem to keep winning.

I sort of think about teams with the question, "All things being equal (in terms of bracket positioning and strength of opponents), would I expect these teams to make the second weekend?"  For Cabrini and Hope, I'd say, "probably not, but it wouldn't surprise me."  That says probably somewhere in the 30-50 range and probably not a great candidate for the Top 25.  I believe in Cabrini because they just seem to keep winning games.  Hope has lost a number of games I wouldn't expect a good Hope team to lose, thus: not good this year.

I try very hard not to use past performance as a guide, but at some point you have to give credit to coaching or system or some other intangible that makes an otherwise ordinary team consistently outperform expectations.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 19, 2014, 03:06:34 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 19, 2014, 02:55:35 PM
Hope has lost a number of games I wouldn't expect a good Hope team to lose, thus: not good this year.

I know I'm cherry picking quotes here, but what?

They've lost at #1 UWSP, #2 UWW, at home to #4 Illinois Wesleyan, neutral court to Wheaton who's been ranked nearly all year and has a chance to win the CCIW Saturday.  A loss to Cornerstone who is ranked #3 in NAIA II and has lost once since playing Hope to a D2.  The only loss they maybe shouldn't have had was at Albion.  A road loss in a conference game which nearly every good D3 team will have at least one of those.

How many D3 teams would have actually done better vs that schedule?

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 19, 2014, 03:26:32 PM
So they've lost every game noted.  :-[

Quote from: sac on February 19, 2014, 03:06:34 PM
How many D3 teams would have actually done better vs that schedule?

I guess all someone would have to do is win ONE of those games!  ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 19, 2014, 03:28:14 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 19, 2014, 11:13:55 AM
It should be noted that I didn't turn in a ballot. So it probably wasn't a 'Calvin fan' homer pick (I'm not aware of any other Calvin fans who have been voting).

I put in the Calvin vote.  Even after the loss to hope, they only fell to #26 on my ballot.  And if you want to know why their so high, look back at 2 things I said this week:
1) from Saturday: "9 teams from 15-25 in my poll last week lost at least 1 game this week. "
2) from Sunday (and pay attention to the bolded part): "My poll's in.  1-10 for the most part was pretty easy, at least to me.  Didn't really have much of a problem with 22-25 either (SOMEONE has to occupy those spots, and the votes for those 4 spots are minuscule at best and will barely register overall anyway).  11-21 was a real PITA.  I bumped up some teams I had screwed in recent weeks (like the Brockport's & Texas Dallas's of the world) and threw darts for the rest and see where it landed."

So the combination of: 1) Not a lot of very good teams 2) a bunch of teams losing last week and 3) were just on the outside, that's why they got the bump.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 19, 2014, 03:40:36 PM
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthumbs.dreamstime.com%2Fx%2Fdartboard-darts-2235004.jpg&hash=aba795929c614a60205650395ed012030c814200)

;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 19, 2014, 04:46:36 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 19, 2014, 01:52:03 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 19, 2014, 01:19:30 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on February 19, 2014, 11:46:47 AM
I feel like Hope is a Top 25 team...somewhere between 20-25.

If Hope had Cabrini's schedule, they're be ranked about #3 right now and everyone would think they're awesome.

The power numbers wouldn't fib, though. Cabrini is 17 and Hope is 23 in Massey. So, yeah, practically even steven.
Massey SOS

Hope - 11
Cabrini - 183


Power numbers take into account the SOS.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 19, 2014, 04:47:28 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 19, 2014, 02:55:35 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on February 19, 2014, 11:46:47 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 19, 2014, 11:42:11 AM

I was keeping Calvin in the running for a while; they are clearly the most impressive MIAA team this year.  Then they got walloped by Hope, who is not good this year.  That sealed the deal for me.  I could see someone closer to the situation making a more detailed determination on it.


I feel like Hope is a Top 25 team...somewhere between 20-25.

If Hope had Cabrini's schedule, they're be ranked about #3 right now and everyone would think they're awesome.

I'm not convinced Cabrini is a good team.  I've watched them play more over the last three or four years than any other school.  Yes, the have quite possibly the best player in the country, but that team does not look good.  You watch them on the floor and they're fearless and aggressive, but they don't appear overly talented.  They just seem to keep winning.

I sort of think about teams with the question, "All things being equal (in terms of bracket positioning and strength of opponents), would I expect these teams to make the second weekend?"  For Cabrini and Hope, I'd say, "probably not, but it wouldn't surprise me."  That says probably somewhere in the 30-50 range and probably not a great candidate for the Top 25.  I believe in Cabrini because they just seem to keep winning games.  Hope has lost a number of games I wouldn't expect a good Hope team to lose, thus: not good this year.

I try very hard not to use past performance as a guide, but at some point you have to give credit to coaching or system or some other intangible that makes an otherwise ordinary team consistently outperform expectations.

How can someone be NOT GOOD if they're in the top 30 to 50 teams in ALL of D-3????
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 19, 2014, 05:38:42 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 19, 2014, 04:46:36 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 19, 2014, 01:52:03 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 19, 2014, 01:19:30 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on February 19, 2014, 11:46:47 AM
I feel like Hope is a Top 25 team...somewhere between 20-25.

If Hope had Cabrini's schedule, they're be ranked about #3 right now and everyone would think they're awesome.

The power numbers wouldn't fib, though. Cabrini is 17 and Hope is 23 in Massey. So, yeah, practically even steven.
Massey SOS

Hope - 11
Cabrini - 183

I'm well aware of that, but it doesn't change the fact that there is a large difference in the schedules these two have played.


Power numbers take into account the SOS.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 19, 2014, 10:30:46 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 19, 2014, 04:47:28 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 19, 2014, 02:55:35 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on February 19, 2014, 11:46:47 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 19, 2014, 11:42:11 AM

I was keeping Calvin in the running for a while; they are clearly the most impressive MIAA team this year.  Then they got walloped by Hope, who is not good this year.  That sealed the deal for me.  I could see someone closer to the situation making a more detailed determination on it.


I feel like Hope is a Top 25 team...somewhere between 20-25.

If Hope had Cabrini's schedule, they're be ranked about #3 right now and everyone would think they're awesome.

I'm not convinced Cabrini is a good team.  I've watched them play more over the last three or four years than any other school.  Yes, the have quite possibly the best player in the country, but that team does not look good.  You watch them on the floor and they're fearless and aggressive, but they don't appear overly talented.  They just seem to keep winning.

I sort of think about teams with the question, "All things being equal (in terms of bracket positioning and strength of opponents), would I expect these teams to make the second weekend?"  For Cabrini and Hope, I'd say, "probably not, but it wouldn't surprise me."  That says probably somewhere in the 30-50 range and probably not a great candidate for the Top 25.  I believe in Cabrini because they just seem to keep winning games.  Hope has lost a number of games I wouldn't expect a good Hope team to lose, thus: not good this year.

I try very hard not to use past performance as a guide, but at some point you have to give credit to coaching or system or some other intangible that makes an otherwise ordinary team consistently outperform expectations.

How can someone be NOT GOOD if they're in the top 30 to 50 teams in ALL of D-3????

If you're not winning, you're losing.  If you're considering teams for national rankings, the definition of good goes up a few notches.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 20, 2014, 12:51:21 AM
No, not really. ALL are considered, in reality. Good is good is good.

What I think it should be:

ELITE
GREAT
GOOD
OKAY
MEDIOCRE
FAIR
POOR
WRETCHED
ABYSMAL
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 20, 2014, 01:56:13 AM
Quote from: smedindy on February 19, 2014, 04:47:28 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 19, 2014, 02:55:35 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on February 19, 2014, 11:46:47 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 19, 2014, 11:42:11 AM

I was keeping Calvin in the running for a while; they are clearly the most impressive MIAA team this year.  Then they got walloped by Hope, who is not good this year.  That sealed the deal for me.  I could see someone closer to the situation making a more detailed determination on it.


I feel like Hope is a Top 25 team...somewhere between 20-25.

If Hope had Cabrini's schedule, they're be ranked about #3 right now and everyone would think they're awesome.

I'm not convinced Cabrini is a good team.  I've watched them play more over the last three or four years than any other school.  Yes, the have quite possibly the best player in the country, but that team does not look good.  You watch them on the floor and they're fearless and aggressive, but they don't appear overly talented.  They just seem to keep winning.

I sort of think about teams with the question, "All things being equal (in terms of bracket positioning and strength of opponents), would I expect these teams to make the second weekend?"  For Cabrini and Hope, I'd say, "probably not, but it wouldn't surprise me."  That says probably somewhere in the 30-50 range and probably not a great candidate for the Top 25.  I believe in Cabrini because they just seem to keep winning games.  Hope has lost a number of games I wouldn't expect a good Hope team to lose, thus: not good this year.

I try very hard not to use past performance as a guide, but at some point you have to give credit to coaching or system or some other intangible that makes an otherwise ordinary team consistently outperform expectations.

How can someone be NOT GOOD if they're in the top 30 to 50 teams in ALL of D-3????
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frunnergirleats.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F11%2Fricky-bobby-if-you-aint-first.jpg&hash=b0eb500be4092c5df29aa2d2df0980ff276cbf20)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 23, 2014, 01:51:00 AM
Luckily we only have 2 more weeks of voting.  Pretty soon I'm going to have 8-17 teams at #25 if everyone keeps losing they've been the last 3 weeks.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 23, 2014, 01:25:30 PM
Quote from: 7express on February 23, 2014, 01:51:00 AM
Luckily we only have 2 more weeks of voting.  Pretty soon I'm going to have 8-17 teams at #25 if everyone keeps losing they've been the last 3 weeks.

You need to put my Plattsburgh State Cardinals in your poll. They haven't been losing much. 19-2 in their past 21 and not a bad loss on their 21-4 record. Massey now has them at #11 for a reason.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 23, 2014, 08:20:38 PM

I'm in.  Not too bad this week.  A lot of the losses weren't terrible.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: kiltedbryan on February 24, 2014, 01:42:32 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 20, 2014, 12:51:21 AM
No, not really. ALL are considered, in reality. Good is good is good.

What I think it should be:
RICHARD STOCKTON
ELITE
GREAT
GOOD
OKAY
MEDIOCRE
FAIR
POOR
WRETCHED
ABYSMAL

Fixed it for you.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 24, 2014, 02:23:38 PM
In.  Not as bad as a thought it would be.  As Hopsfan said, none of the losses were really that bad.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 25, 2014, 02:59:18 AM
Mine's in with 3 new members.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 25, 2014, 06:10:27 PM
Well, I've received the seven ballots from those who have voted all season.  Any ballots on their way from the more irregular voters?  Unless someone requests more time, I'll post about the usual 9 o'clock.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 25, 2014, 09:06:21 PM
POSTERS' POLL, 2-23-14:

1.  UWSP            175 (unanimous)
2.  IWU               161 (2,2,2,2,2,4,7)
3.  UWW             158 (3,3,3,3,3,4,5)
4.  WashU           149 (2,2,3,4,4,8,10)
5.  Wooster         143 (4,4,5,5,5,8,8)
6.  Amherst         142 (3,4,5,6,7,7,8)
7.  St. Norbert     139 (5,6,6,7,9,9,11)
8.  Cabrini           128 (5,6,7,8,9,9,10)
9.  Wesley           123 (6,6,8,9,10,10,10)
10  Williams         119 (6,7,8,9,9,10,14)
11  Brockport         86 (7,12,13,14,15,15,20)
12  St. Thomas      84 (11,12,13,13,14,16,19)
13  A. Magnus        79 (11,12,12,15,16,17,20)
14  WPI                 78 (11,11,11,13,16,16,-)
15  Purchase          76 (12,14,14,14,16,17,19)
16  Staten Island    67 (10,12,13,16,16,22,-)
17  Randy Mac        57 (11,13,15,20,20,21,25)
t18 Plattsburgh       47 (12,17,17,19,23,23,24)
t18 TX Dallas          47 (13,15,18,18,19,-,-)
20  M Washington   38 (15,19,19,20,21,24,-)
21  Whitworth         36 (17,17,18,20,23,25,-)
22  Scranton           33 (15,18,21,22,23,24,-)
23  Centre               21 (18,21,22,22,-,-,-)
24  St. Olaf             20 (17,22,22,23,-,-,-)
25  Wheaton           12 (14,-,-,-,-,-,-)

t26 Bowdoin             8 (18)
t26 Calvin                8 (18)
t26 Ohio Wes           8 (19, 25)
t29 R Stockton         7 (21,24)
t29 Wittenberg         7 (22,23)
31  Babson              6 (20)
t32 Dickinson           5 (21)
t32 Geneseo            5 (21)
t34 Marietta             3 (24,25)
t34 Mt. Union           3 (23)
t36 Bethany             2 (24)
t36 Va Wes              2 (24)
t38 Augie                 1
t38 Hope                  1
t38 PSU-Behrend      1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 25, 2014, 09:13:31 PM
Remember, we vote again next week, then take a break 'til the national tourney is over.

For now, we've definitely reached consensus on a top 10 - they got all but two of the top ten votes, and the drop from 10th to 11th is a startling 33 points (with only seven voters this week, that is virtually FIVE slots down)!  Notice also that it is virtually random beyond #24 - NO team received votes from more than two voters.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 25, 2014, 09:14:20 PM
1.  UWSP            175 (unan1mous)
2.  IWU               161 (2,2,2,2,2,4,7)
3.  UWW             158 (3,3,3,3,3,4,5)
4.  WashU           149 (2,2,3,4,4,8,10)
5.  Wooster         143 (4,4,5,5,5,8,8)
6.  Amherst         142 (3,4,5,6,7,7,8)
7.  St. Norbert     139 (5,6,6,7,9,9,11)
8.  Cabrini           128 (5,6,7,8,9,9,10)
9.  Wesley           123 (6,6,8,9,10,10,10)
10  Williams         119 (6,7,8,9,9,10,14)
11  Brockport         86 (7,12,13,14,15,15,20)
12  St. Thomas      84 (11,12,13,13,14,16,19)
13  A. Magnus        79 (11,12,12,15,16,17,20)
14  WPI                 78 (11,11,11,13,16,16,-)
15  Purchase          76 (12,14,14,14,16,17,19)
16  Staten Island    67 (10,12,13,16,16,22,-)
17  Randy Mac        57 (11,13,15,20,20,21,25)
t18 Plattsburgh       47 (12,17,17,19,23,23,24)
t18 TX Dallas          47 (13,15,18,18,19,-,-)
20  M Washington*   38 (15,19,19,20,21,24,-)
21  Whitworth         36 (17,17,18,20,23,25,-)
22  Scranton           33 (15,18,21,22,23,24,-)
23  Centre               21 (18,21,22,22,-,-,-)
24  St. Olaf             20 (17,22,22,23,-,-,-)
25  Wheaton           12 (14,-,-,-,-,-,-)

t26 Bowdoin             8 (18)
t26 Calvin                8 (18)
t26 Ohio Wes           8 (19, 25)
t29 R Stockton         7 (21,24)
t29 Wittenberg         7 (22,23)
31  Babson              6 (20)
t32 Dickinson           5 (21)
t32 Geneseo            5 (21)
t34 Marietta             3 (24,25)
t34 Mt. Union           3 (23)
t36 Bethany             2 (24)
t36 Va Wes              2 (24)
t38 Augie                 1
t38 Hope                  1
t38 PSU-Behrend      1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 25, 2014, 09:33:55 PM
Staten Island seems to have a wide variance... a team whose only two losses were in OT and have won 23 straight. Sure they haven't had any signature wins, but in their last 10 games they only have one single digit win and 7 have been by at least 20. They've taken care of business while everyone else has had hiccups.

1.  UWSP            175 (unan1mous)
2.  IWU               161 (2,2,2,2,2,4,7)
3.  UWW             158 (3,3,3,3,3,4,5)
4.  WashU           149 (2,2,3,4,4,8,10)
5.  Wooster         143 (4,4,5,5,5,8,8)
6.  Amherst*         142 (3,4,5,6,7,7,8)
7.  St. Norbert     139 (5,6,6,7,9,9,11)
8.  Cabrini           128 (5,6,7,8,9,9,10)
9.  Wesley           123 (6,6,8,9,10,10,10)
10  Williams*         119 (6,7,8,9,9,10,14)
11  Brockport         86 (7,12,13,14,15,15,20)
12  St. Thomas*      84 (11,12,13,13,14,16,19)
13  A. Magnus*        79 (11,12,12,15,16,17,20)
14  WPI                 78 (11,11,11,13,16,16,-)
15  Purchase*          76 (12,14,14,14,16,17,19)
16  Staten Island*    67 (10,12,13,16,16,22,-)
17  Randy Mac        57 (11,13,15,20,20,21,25)
t18 Plattsburgh       47 (12,17,17,19,23,23,24)
t18 TX Dallas          47 (13,15,18,18,19,-,-)
20  M Washington   38 (15,19,19,20,21,24,-)
21  Whitworth         36 (17,17,18,20,23,25,-)
22  Scranton*           33 (15,18,21,22,23,24,-)
23  Centre               21 (18,21,22,22,-,-,*)
24  St. Olaf             20 (17,22,22,23,-,-,-)
25  Wheaton           12 (14,-,-,-,-,-,*)

t26 Bowdoin             8 (18)
t26 Calvin                8 (18)
t26 Ohio Wes           8 (19, 25)
t29 R Stockton         7 (21,24)
t29 Wittenberg         7 (22,23)
31  Babson              6 (20)
t32 Dickinson           5 (21)
t32 Geneseo            5 (21)
t34 Marietta             3 (24,25)
t34 Mt. Union           3 (23)
t36 Bethany*             2 (24)
t36 Va Wes              2 (24)
t38 Augie                 1
t38 Hope                  1
t38 PSU-Behrend*      1 (25)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2014, 09:40:56 PM

I love that I single-handedly kept Wheaton in the poll.  Funny.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: ronk on February 25, 2014, 10:48:57 PM
 What does an asterisk in the poll mean?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 25, 2014, 10:51:46 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 25, 2014, 09:06:21 PM
POSTERS' POLL, 2-23-14:

1.  UWSP            175 (unanimous)
2.  IWU               161 (2,2,2,2,2,4,7)
3.  UWW             158 (3,3,3,3,3,4,5)
4.  WashU           149 (2,2,3,4,4,8,10)
5.  Wooster         143 (4,4,5,5,5,8,8)
6.  Amherst         142 (3,4,5,6,7,7,8)
7.  St. Norbert     139 (5,6,6,7,9,9,11)
8.  Cabrini           128 (5,6,7,8,9,9,10)
9.  Wesley           123 (6,6,8,9,10,10,10)
10  Williams         119 (6,7,8,9,9,10,14)
11  Brockport         86 (7,12,13,14,15,15,20)
12  St. Thomas      84 (11,12,13,13,14,16,19)
13  A. Magnus        79 (11,12,12,15,16,17,20)
14  WPI                 78 (11,11,11,13,16,16,-)
15  Purchase          76 (12,14,14,14,16,17,19)
16  Staten Island    67 (10,12,13,16,16,22,-)
17  Randy Mac        57 (11,13,15,20,20,21,25)
t18 Plattsburgh       47 (12,17,17,19,23,23,24)
t18 TX Dallas          47 (13,15,18,18,19,-,-)
20  M Washington   38 (15,19,19,20,21,24,-)
21  Whitworth         36 (17,17,18,20,23,25,-)
22  Scranton           33 (15,18,21,22,23,24,-)
23  Centre               21 (18,21,22,22,-,-,-)
24  St. Olaf             20 (17,22,22,23,-,-,-)
25  Wheaton           12 (14,-,-,-,-,-,-)

t26 Bowdoin             8 (18)
t26 Calvin                8 (18)
t26 Ohio Wes           8 (19, 25)
t29 R Stockton         7 (21,24)
t29 Wittenberg         7 (22,23)
31  Babson              6 (20)
t32 Dickinson           5 (21)
t32 Geneseo            5 (21)
t34 Marietta             3 (24,25)
t34 Mt. Union          3 (23)
t36 Bethany             2 (24)
t36 Va Wes              2 (24)
t38 Augie                 1
t38 Hope                  1
t38 PSU-Behrend      1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 25, 2014, 10:53:18 PM
Quote from: ronk on February 25, 2014, 10:48:57 PM
What does an asterisk in the poll mean?

That was FCGG calling attention to his outliers.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 25, 2014, 11:07:16 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 25, 2014, 10:53:18 PM
Quote from: ronk on February 25, 2014, 10:48:57 PM
What does an asterisk in the poll mean?

That was FCGG calling attention to his outliers.
I almost ran out of asterisks ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 25, 2014, 11:14:14 PM
Quote from: ronk on February 25, 2014, 10:48:57 PM
What does an asterisk in the poll mean?

If someone has an outlier in the poll (i.e. me not ranking Scranton), they'll usually put an asterisk near it.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on February 26, 2014, 11:19:36 AM
Wasn't able to vote this week, not sure I would have made much of an impact.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: ronk on February 26, 2014, 11:43:08 AM
Quote from: 7express on February 25, 2014, 11:14:14 PM
Quote from: ronk on February 25, 2014, 10:48:57 PM
What does an asterisk in the poll mean?

If someone has an outlier in the poll (i.e. me not ranking Scranton), they'll usually put an asterisk near it.

So, you're the one. ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 27, 2014, 07:04:20 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 25, 2014, 09:40:56 PM

I love that I single-handedly kept Wheaton in the poll.  Funny.

While I have nothing against Wheaton at #25 (they were probably my #26), what I hate is that we have so few voters that one voter can put a team IN the top 25! ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2014, 09:31:47 PM
Don't forget that we do have a poll this week.  With bracket challenges, and several of us in the Fantasy tournament, I'll understand if ballots are delayed this week.  I'd prefer the usual Tuesday evening posting, but if it is Wednesday (or even Thursday), so be it.  But this is the latest ever that I have no ballots but my own! :P

(If you're at a loss without Daryl Nester's 'How They Fared', Greek's summaries on the Pool C thread probably includes all the teams you might be considering.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on March 02, 2014, 09:33:10 PM
Just sent mine in.  Biggest problem I had was at the bottom in the 18-25 range, but those only average miniscule at best in the long run.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2014, 09:37:00 PM
Quote from: 7express on March 02, 2014, 09:33:10 PM
Just sent mine in.  Biggest problem I had was at the bottom in the 18-25 range, but those only average miniscule at best in the long run.

Yeah, I must have been sending out powerful vibes.  Your ballot arrived as I was typing my plea!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on March 03, 2014, 04:11:26 AM
Well, when you wake up you will now have 3 ballots. ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on March 03, 2014, 05:43:23 PM
May be delayed. We moved offices and I'm behind at work and may be delayed at home.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 03, 2014, 09:00:52 PM
Apparently I guessed wrong about people being late this week; instead posters decided to get their ballots done before the brackets came out!  By 11 this morning we had six, which is way above normal.

But we've been stuck on six ever since.  Smed posted he would be late, and FCGG usually doesn't post until Tuesday, so the poll may be on time again this week.  Hoping to hear from sac, John Gleich, and any other former voters.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on March 04, 2014, 10:40:00 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 03, 2014, 09:00:52 PM
Apparently I guessed wrong about people being late this week; instead posters decided to get their ballots done before the brackets came out!  By 11 this morning we had six, which is way above normal.

But we've been stuck on six ever since.  Smed posted he would be late, and FCGG usually doesn't post until Tuesday, so the poll may be on time again this week.  Hoping to hear from sac, John Gleich, and any other former voters.

I can get you a final poll.... but just way, way to busy at the moment (New baby, bad weather, furnace broke, lots of things).

If I can find 10 minutes, maybe I'll get you my final poll by the end of the week  ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 04, 2014, 08:47:35 PM
We've got eight - not really expecting more.  A double-listing on a ballot (way too high to just ignore) has been returned for correction.  While I'm waiting for the final results, if anyone DOES want to submit a ballot ... ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on March 05, 2014, 01:16:51 AM
Fixed it. New office and surroundings and opening boxes, etc. had me confuzzled.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 05, 2014, 01:51:32 PM
sac came thru with ballot #9. :)

POSTERS' POLL, 3-2-14:

1.  UWSP            225 (unanimous)
2.  WashU           203 (2,2,2,2,2,2,5,7,7)
t3  Amherst        196 (2,2,3,3,4,4,5,7,8)
t3  Wooster         196 (3,3,3,3,4,4,5,6,7)
5.  UWW             194 (3,3,3,4,5,5,5,6,6)
6.  IWU               193 (2,4,4,4,4,5,5,6,7)
7.  St. Norbert     169 (5,6,6,6,7,7,8,10,10)
8.  Cabrini           154 (6,7,8,8,8,8,9,10,16)
9.  Brockport       144 (6,7,8,10,11,11,12,12,13)
10 Williams         135 (8,9,9,10,10,11,11,15,16)
11 Wesley           120 (8,9,9,11,12,13,13,14,24)
12 A. Magnus        91 (9,9,10,14,15,16,18,-,-)
13 Purchase          87 (9,11,12,13,14,14,22,-,-)
14 Plattsburgh      84 (11,11,15,15,16,18,19,22,23)
15 St. Thomas      82 (13,14,16,16,17,18,19,19,20)
16 TX Dallas         74 (12,12,13,15,17,19,20,-,-)
17 St. Olaf            70 (10,16,16,16,18,20,21,23,24)
18 M. Washington  67 (12,13,17,17,17,19,22,24,-)
19 Scranton          60 (12,14,18,19,21,21,21,22,-)
20 Wheaton          58 (9,11,15,18,21,24,-,-,-)
21 Whitworth        54 (13,15,15,19,20,22,25,25,-)
22 WPI                 48 (10,14,20,20,21,24,25,-,-)
23 Randy Mac       47 (12,14,20,20,21,24,24,-,-)
24 Centre             33 (17,18,19,22,23,24,-,-,-)
25 Va Wes            32 (11,18,19,24,-,-,-,-,-)

t26 Augie             24 (14,17,23)
t26 Calvin            24 (15,17,22)
28  Staten Island  21 (13,22,23,25)
29  R. Stockton    15 (17,22,25,25)
30  Hope              10 (21,21)
31  Witt                 9 (20,23)
32  Wilmington       8 (18)
33  Ohio Wes         4 (23,25)
t34 Geneseo          3 (23)
t34 PSU-Behrend   3 (23)
36  Babson            1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on March 05, 2014, 02:15:50 PM
1.  UWSP            225 (unan1mous)
2.  WashU           203 (2,2,2,2,2,2,5,7,7)
t3  Amherst        196 (2,2,3,3,4,4,5,7,8)
t3  Wooster         196 (3,3,3,3,4,4,5,6,7)
5.  UWW             194 (3,3,3,4,5,5,5,6,6)
6.  IWU               193 (2,4,4,4,4,5,5,6,7)
7.  St. Norbert     169 (5,6,6,6,7,7,8,10,10)
8.  Cabrini           154 (6,7,8,8,8,8,9,10,16)
9.  Brockport       144 (6,7,8,10,11,11,12,12,13)
10 Williams         135 (8,9,9,10,10,11,11,15,16)
11 Wesley           120 (8,9,9,11,12,13,13,14,24)
12 A. Magnus        91 (9,9,10,14,15,16,18,-,-)
13 Purchase          87 (9,11,12,13,14,14,22,-,-)
14 Plattsburgh      84 (11,11,15,15,16,18,19,22,23)
15 St. Thomas      82 (13,14,16,16,17,18,19,19,20)
16 TX Dallas         74 (12,12,13,15,17,19,20,-,-)
17 St. Olaf            70 (10,16,16,16,18,20,21,23,24)
18 M. Washington  67 (12,13,17,17,17,19,22,24,-)
19 Scranton*          60 (12,14,18,19,21,21,21,22,-)
20 Wheaton          58 (9,11,15,18,21,24,-,-,-)
21 Whitworth        54 (13,15,15,19,20,22,25,25,-)
22 WPI                 48 (10,14,20,20,21,24,25,-,-)
23 Randy Mac       47 (12,14,20,20,21,24,24,-,-)
24 Centre             33 (17,18,19,22,23,24,-,-,-)
25 Va Wes            32 (11,18,19,24,-,-,-,-,-)

t26 Augie             24 (14,17,23)
t26 Calvin            24 (15,17,22)
28  Staten Island  21 (13,22,23,25)
29  R. Stockton    15 (17,22,25,25)
30  Hope              10 (21,21)
31  Witt                 9 (20,23)
32  Wilmington       8 (18)
33  Ohio Wes         4 (23,25)
t34 Geneseo          3 (23)
t34 PSU-Behrend   3 (23)
36  Babson            1*
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 05, 2014, 02:20:38 PM

Last week I was the pariah for putting Wheaton into the poll; this week five more of you join me.  It's the same team, guys, just because they beat IWU doesn't change who they are!!  You gotta believe.



(In case anyone couldn't tell - I'm not at all upset or serious in any way.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 05, 2014, 02:24:39 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 05, 2014, 02:20:38 PM

Last week I was the pariah for putting Wheaton into the poll; this week five more of you join me.  It's the same team, guys, just because they beat IWU doesn't change who they are!!  You gotta believe.



(In case anyone couldn't tell - I'm not at all upset or serious in any way.)

I almost joined you last week.  My comment was bemoaning the fact that our pool of voters is so small that a single voter could get a team INTO the top 25
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 05, 2014, 02:27:06 PM
What a tight battle it was for 2nd thru 6th (especially 3-6).  We have no consensus on their order, but we mostly agree that they ARE the 2nd thru 6th place teams (for the moment, of course ;D).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on March 05, 2014, 02:28:08 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 05, 2014, 02:20:38 PM

Last week I was the pariah for putting Wheaton into the poll; this week five more of you join me.  It's the same team, guys, just because they beat IWU doesn't change who they are!!  You gotta believe.



(In case anyone couldn't tell - I'm not at all upset or serious in any way.)

Them & Virginia Wesleyan have been my 2 biggest yo-yo teams this year.  It's the same team that still has 8 losses (granted all were to good teams, but 8 losses is 8 losses.  You gotta draw the line somewhere.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 05, 2014, 02:44:54 PM
Quote from: 7express on March 05, 2014, 02:28:08 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 05, 2014, 02:20:38 PM

Last week I was the pariah for putting Wheaton into the poll; this week five more of you join me.  It's the same team, guys, just because they beat IWU doesn't change who they are!!  You gotta believe.



(In case anyone couldn't tell - I'm not at all upset or serious in any way.)

Them & Virginia Wesleyan have been my 2 biggest yo-yo teams this year.  It's the same team that still has 8 losses (granted all were to good teams, but 8 losses is 8 losses.  You gotta draw the line somewhere.)

I rarely deduct points for losing to a team I think is better.  Wheaton had a few loses to worse teams, but not many.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on March 05, 2014, 03:22:24 PM
Surprised the ODAC's aren't higher. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 05, 2014, 05:06:19 PM
I'm the outlier on only 3 teams this week... what is wrong with me? ;D

1.  UWSP            225 (unan1mous)
2.  WashU           203 (2,2,2,2,2,2,5,7,7)
t3  Amherst        196 (2,2,3,3,4,4,5,7,8)
t3  Wooster         196 (3,3,3,3,4,4,5,6,7)
5.  UWW             194 (3,3,3,4,5,5,5,6,6)
6.  IWU               193 (2,4,4,4,4,5,5,6,7)
7.  St. Norbert     169 (5,6,6,6,7,7,8,10,10)
8.  Cabrini           154 (6,7,8,8,8,8,9,10,16)
9.  Brockport       144 (6,7,8,10,11,11,12,12,13)
10 Williams*         135 (8,9,9,10,10,11,11,15,16)
11 Wesley           120 (8,9,9,11,12,13,13,14,24)
12 A. Magnus        91 (9,9,10,14,15,16,18,-,-)
13 Purchase          87 (9,11,12,13,14,14,22,-,-)
14 Plattsburgh      84 (11,11,15,15,16,18,19,22,23)
15 St. Thomas      82 (13,14,16,16,17,18,19,19,20)
16 TX Dallas         74 (12,12,13,15,17,19,20,-,-)
17 St. Olaf            70 (10,16,16,16,18,20,21,23,24)
18 M. Washington  67 (12,13,17,17,17,19,22,24,-)
19 Scranton          60 (12,14,18,19,21,21,21,22,-)
20 Wheaton          58 (9,11,15,18,21,24,-,-,-)
21 Whitworth        54 (13,15,15,19,20,22,25,25,-)
22 WPI                 48 (10,14,20,20,21,24,25,-,-)
23 Randy Mac       47 (12,14,20,20,21,24,24,-,-)
24 Centre             33 (17,18,19,22,23,24,-,-,-)
25 Va Wes            32 (11,18,19,24,-,-,-,-,-)

t26 Augie             24 (14,17,23)
t26 Calvin            24 (15,17,22)
28  Staten Island*  21 (13,22,23,25)
29  R. Stockton    15 (17,22,25,25)
30  Hope              10 (21,21)
31  Witt                 9 (20,23)
32  Wilmington       8 (18)
33  Ohio Wes         4 (23,25)
t34 Geneseo          3 (23)
t34 PSU-Behrend*   3 (23)
36  Babson            1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on March 06, 2014, 01:49:25 AM
Mr. Ypsi,

I think you used the poll I first sent in where  I had  inadvertently left off Wesley. I sent in a corrected poll but am quite sure you didn't use that one. For instance I had Va Wesleyan at 20, Stockton at 23, Wheaton at 22, Mary Washingron at 18, just to name a few, and none of those teams have a placement using those numbers. Somehow you did get Wesley in there at #11 where I wanted them. At least I think that's my vote since you show 9 votes for Wesley and only 1 at #11.

Don't go back and waste your time re-calculating because the placements on the ballot that you used were only off by 1 point and I checked to see if it made a difference in any of the teams' positions and it doesn't. Every team would still be where they are so don't bother. Sorry that my original omission caused a problem.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on March 06, 2014, 02:33:33 AM
In comparing our poll with the D3hoops Top 25 poll we have Wheaton at #20 and Va. Wesleyan at #25. They have both those teams in the ORV category at #26 and #27. They have Stockton at #22 and Calvin at #24 while we have them in the ORV category at #29 and #26 respectively. Not a lot of difference concerning the placements of these 4 teams.

The biggest difference in our two polls is the placement of Plattsburgh State. We have the Cardinals at #14 and omitted Wittenberg who wound up in the ORV category at #31. The Top 25 poll has Wittenberg at #23 and Plattsburgh State in the ORV's  at #29. What's interesting is that every one of our voters voted for Plattsburgh State. I'm guessing that our voters might use the Massey Ratings as a guide, maybe more so than the Top 25 voters, since Massey has Plattsburgh ranked quite high in his rating system (#11).   
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on March 11, 2014, 07:00:52 AM
Mr. Ypsi, 

You have all the ballots from the last Posters' Poll, so your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to see which voter had the most teams in the Sweet 16 ranked on his Top 25 poll. I know that no one had Morrisville State, so 15 is the most a voter could have. I'm guessing that 12 or 13 is the winning number. May I have the envelope, please?   
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 11, 2014, 10:18:40 AM
Quote from: magicman on March 11, 2014, 07:00:52 AM
Mr. Ypsi, 

You have all the ballots from the last Posters' Poll, so your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to see which voter had the most teams in the Sweet 16 ranked on his Top 25 poll. I know that no one had Morrisville State, so 15 is the most a voter could have. I'm guessing that 12 or 13 is the winning number. May I have the envelope, please?

I'm off to bowling in a few minutes, but I'll try to remember to check this this evening.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 11, 2014, 10:27:40 AM
Quote from: magicman on March 11, 2014, 07:00:52 AM
Mr. Ypsi, 

You have all the ballots from the last Posters' Poll, so your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to see which voter had the most teams in the Sweet 16 ranked on his Top 25 poll. I know that no one had Morrisville State, so 15 is the most a voter could have. I'm guessing that 12 or 13 is the winning number. May I have the envelope, please?   
Probably won't be me... I only had 10 which includes Richard Stockton barely in at 25. I didn't have Calvin, Dickinson, Emory, Morrisville St, Virginia Wesleyan, or Wheaton.
I only have 5 of my top 14 still alive :o
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 11, 2014, 02:13:03 PM
Quote from: magicman on March 11, 2014, 07:00:52 AM
Mr. Ypsi, 

You have all the ballots from the last Posters' Poll, so your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to see which voter had the most teams in the Sweet 16 ranked on his Top 25 poll. I know that no one had Morrisville State, so 15 is the most a voter could have. I'm guessing that 12 or 13 is the winning number. May I have the envelope, please?

So here's the deal.  I just looked back at my most recent ballot and apparently I had Purchase on at #22 and #24.  I didn't catch it and evidently Ypsi didn't catch it either.  The team I had first off the list (#26 essentially) was Dickinson.

I don't know if that counts or not.  If it does, I had 12 of the 16 (missing Virginian Wesleyan, Morrisville, Emory, and Calvin).  If it doesn't count, obviously I'm at 11.

The Calvin thing really bums me out.  I had them ranked early on in the season.  I thought they were very good.  Their conference season was less than impressive and I wrote them off.  Sad.


That being said, every team in my last Top 25 made the tournament, 12 of them are still alive and 4 lost to teams I had ranked above them.  I feel like 9 "upsets" is pretty good.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 11, 2014, 04:38:58 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 11, 2014, 02:13:03 PM
Quote from: magicman on March 11, 2014, 07:00:52 AM
Mr. Ypsi, 

You have all the ballots from the last Posters' Poll, so your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to see which voter had the most teams in the Sweet 16 ranked on his Top 25 poll. I know that no one had Morrisville State, so 15 is the most a voter could have. I'm guessing that 12 or 13 is the winning number. May I have the envelope, please?

So here's the deal.  I just looked back at my most recent ballot and apparently I had Purchase on at #22 and #24.  I didn't catch it and evidently Ypsi didn't catch it either.  The team I had first off the list (#26 essentially) was Dickinson.

I don't know if that counts or not.  If it does, I had 12 of the 16 (missing Virginian Wesleyan, Morrisville, Emory, and Calvin).  If it doesn't count, obviously I'm at 11.

The Calvin thing really bums me out.  I had them ranked early on in the season.  I thought they were very good.  Their conference season was less than impressive and I wrote them off.  Sad.


That being said, every team in my last Top 25 made the tournament, 12 of them are still alive and 4 lost to teams I had ranked above them.  I feel like 9 "upsets" is pretty good.

I caught that, but that low on the ballot the points are almost non-existent.  I decided to just drop the 24, move 25 up to 24, and leave 25 vacant.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 11, 2014, 07:29:29 PM
Quote from: magicman on March 11, 2014, 07:00:52 AM
Mr. Ypsi, 

You have all the ballots from the last Posters' Poll, so your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to see which voter had the most teams in the Sweet 16 ranked on his Top 25 poll. I know that no one had Morrisville State, so 15 is the most a voter could have. I'm guessing that 12 or 13 is the winning number. May I have the envelope, please?

Sir, mission accomplished, sir!

No one had Morrisville or Emory (or Dickinson, though I'll accept Hoops Fan's word that Dickinson would have been in at 25 if I had called his attention to the double-listing of Purchase).  And of course, there were 7 or 8 that were on everyone's ballot.

Most Sweet 16 teams on ballot, by voter:

12 - magicman and Hoops Fan (granting him Dickinson)
11 - 7express
10 - Mr. Y, frodotwo, Knightslappy, FCGG, sac
8 - smedindy
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on March 11, 2014, 09:36:27 PM
Well, I was a Staten Island true believer because I have fear and loathing of the elitist swine. Oh, wait, channeling HST.

But I didn't have any outliers, either. I had Witt and OWU in my final poll near the bottom.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on March 12, 2014, 06:16:44 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 11, 2014, 07:29:29 PM
Quote from: magicman on March 11, 2014, 07:00:52 AM
Mr. Ypsi, 

You have all the ballots from the last Posters' Poll, so your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to see which voter had the most teams in the Sweet 16 ranked on his Top 25 poll. I know that no one had Morrisville State, so 15 is the most a voter could have. I'm guessing that 12 or 13 is the winning number. May I have the envelope, please?

Sir, mission accomplished, sir!



No one had Morrisville or Emory (or Dickinson, though I'll accept Hoops Fan's word that Dickinson would have been in at 25 if I had called his attention to the double-listing of Purchase).  And of course, there were 7 or 8 that were on everyone's ballot.

Most Sweet 16 teams on ballot, by voter:

12 - magicman and Hoops Fan (granting him Dickinson)
11 - 7express
10 - Mr. Y, frodotwo, Knightslappy, FCGG, sac
8 - smedindy

Thanks Mr. Ypsi.  Plus K

As usual, the secretary will disavow all excuses such as,  I would of If I had known. A card laid is a card played. ;D I'm not good at sharing. :P

The real Top 25 poll only had 10 of their ranked teams in the Sweet 16.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on March 22, 2014, 08:57:09 PM
When do we need the postseason poll in by??  It's gonna take me a while, probably wouldn't be able to get mine in until Monday.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 23, 2014, 09:58:42 PM
Quote from: 7express on March 22, 2014, 08:57:09 PM
When do we need the postseason poll in by??  It's gonna take me a while, probably wouldn't be able to get mine in until Monday.

Well, I'd like to have it up while people are still talking hoops, but no real urgency - the next season is, alas, a L-O-O-O-N-G way away!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 24, 2014, 05:15:17 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 23, 2014, 09:58:42 PM
Quote from: 7express on March 22, 2014, 08:57:09 PM
When do we need the postseason poll in by??  It's gonna take me a while, probably wouldn't be able to get mine in until Monday.

Well, I'd like to have it up while people are still talking hoops, but no real urgency - the next season is, alas, a L-O-O-O-N-G way away!
Well I have the media tour to do after winning the D3 fantasy league... then I'm going to Disney World... so I can probably get it to you by June ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 24, 2014, 10:22:03 AM

I worked mine out this morning and submitted it to Ypsi.

I struggled with three placements:

Cabrini (I ranked them #21) - I saw them play at the Hoopsville Tournament at the beginning of the year and in the NCAAs at the end of the year.  Walton-Moss was not up to par at the beginning, but the team was much better.  My guess is that the addition of Walls mid-season messed up the chemistry.  I saw a disciplined, team-oriented game in November, but a gross, free-for-all by the end.  The other players clearly didn't know how to play with Walls (who isn't prone to pass).  The tourney results bear this out.  I think they could (should) have been higher, but the team they became was worse than the team they started with.

Brockport (I ranked them #15) - I think this team was better than 15th, but with their best player going out at the end of the season, they really didn't have the opportunity to prove it.  I just never know how to factor something like that into the rankings.

Stevens Point (I ranked them #1) - Yeah, I know they lost in the tournament.  I admit they're not national champs and they don't deserve the Walnut & Bronze.  The way Whitewater was playing, Point very well might have lost a rematch.  But we didn't get to see it.  Frankly, a two point loss to Emory was the only weak moment in the entire season - a season full of good teams on the schedule.  There was not a single easy team.  They dominated the whole year and, in the end, even Whitewater's run wasn't enough to overcome that body of work for me.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on March 24, 2014, 04:19:31 PM
I'll try to have mine in by tonight, if I can't I'll definitely have it by mid-afternoon tomorrow.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on March 24, 2014, 05:56:34 PM
Just sent mine in.  Since I missed the year end last year not sure whether you should grade teams on how they did in the tournament or the whole body of work??  I did mine towards advancement in the NCAAs, so if I was struggling between 2 teams, the decider was how far they advanced, so that's why I think I'll have a lot of outliers, especially at the end of the poll.  7 of the last 10 teams in the last poll were out by the first Saturday, so I put some teams that made nice runs (like Morrisville, & Dickinson) into the last couple spots in the poll, since those 20-25 picks will barely register overall anyways.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 24, 2014, 09:02:58 PM
Quote from: 7express on March 24, 2014, 05:56:34 PM
Just sent mine in.  Since I missed the year end last year not sure whether you should grade teams on how they did in the tournament or the whole body of work??  I did mine towards advancement in the NCAAs, so if I was struggling between 2 teams, the decider was how far they advanced, so that's why I think I'll have a lot of outliers, especially at the end of the poll.  7 of the last 10 teams in the last poll were out by the first Saturday, so I put some teams that made nice runs (like Morrisville, & Dickinson) into the last couple spots in the poll, since those 20-25 picks will barely register overall anyways.

Sorry to disillusion your sense of being 'Mr. Outlier', but every single team you voted for has been named on at least half the ballots! ;)

We've now gotten six ballots (including a first timer); can we get to 9 or 10?!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on March 24, 2014, 11:00:26 PM
I'll post one, but it'll take a bit (not likely tonight).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on March 25, 2014, 12:55:58 AM
I was going to do one until I found out that you didn't bother to go to the Championship game and you were only three minutes away from the civic center. I know, I know, you thought the game was at 3:30 instead of 5:30...that's still no excuse. Especially when you consider the fact that it would have taken you 30 seconds to go online and find out the time of the game. Or better yet, check out the time of the game before you ever decided to go for a bicycle ride. I mean you are the #1 poster, in terms of time, online, (light years ahead of the guy in 2nd place) and you couldn't put in that extra minute to find out the info on the Championship game? ??? And this was the first time you made the trip to Salem? I'm sure disappointed in the leader of our Posters' Poll. :P I'm glad it was such a great game. ;D



Just kidding Chuck as I'm sure you had good intentions to please Mrs. Y, for putting up with the basketball stuff, and as you stated, you regret missing the game. The long hard winter that we in the northern latitudes experienced, was too much of a strain on the brain, especially when faced with temperatures that must have felt absolutely like paradise. I can see how the biking trails seemed like a good idea. I don't agree with it but I understand. :D       
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on March 25, 2014, 12:57:50 AM
I'm working on my poll  right now and should have one in by the time you wake up in the morning.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on March 25, 2014, 07:43:06 AM
I've sent mine in. I may have a few surprises that nobody else has but probably only 1 or 2 at the most.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 25, 2014, 05:20:00 PM
I've now tallied nine ballots, and all this year's regulars are accounted for.  Anyone else want to submit a ballot?

I'll post later this evening unless I hear from someone needing an extension.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: John Gleich on March 25, 2014, 07:37:12 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 25, 2014, 05:20:00 PM
I've now tallied nine ballots, and all this year's regulars are accounted for.  Anyone else want to submit a ballot?

I'll post later this evening unless I hear from someone needing an extension.

<--- this guy 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 25, 2014, 08:09:58 PM
POSTERS' POLL, FINAL, 2014:

1.  UWW         224 (unanimous, except for one 2)
t2. UWSP        204 (1,2,2,2,3,5,5,5)
t2. Williams     204 (2,2,2,3,3,3,4,5,6)
4.  IWU           201 (2,3,3,3,4,4,4,5,5)
5.  Amherst     199 (2,3,3,4,4,4,4,4,7)
6.  Wooster     164 (6,6,6,6,7,7,9,11,12)
7.  WashU       159 (5,5,6,6,7,7,10,11,18)
8.  M. Washington 149 (7,7,8,9,10,10,10,12,12)
9.  St. Norbert  136 (6,8,8,9,10,12,14,14,17)
10 Cabrini        128 (8,9,10,10,10,11,12,15,21)
11 A. Magnus   114 (6,9,9,12,13,14,17,17,23)
12 Calvin           99 (8,8,10,14,16,16,18,19,-)
13 Dickinson      93 (7,7,14,14,16,18,18,23,24)
14 Wesley          91 (8,11,11,14,16,17,19,23,24)
15 Brockport      90 (9,13,15,15,16,17,18,18,20)
16 R. Stockton   83 (11,11,11,13,16,19,19,25,-)
17 Wheaton       78 (9,9,12,13,18,20,23,-,-)
18 Plattsburgh    77 (8,13,15,15,17,20,20,21,-)
19 TX Dallas       76 (12,13,14,5,19,19,19,21,-)
20 Va. Wes         68 (8,11,13,18,21,23,23,23,-)
21 Purchase        48 (12,15,17,21,22,24,24,25,-)
22 Whitworth      34 (14,20,20,21,24,24,25,-,-)
23 Augustana      32 (13,16,17,-,-,-,-,-,-)
24 Emory            27 (15,21,22,22,23,-,-,-,-)
25 St. Thomas     24 (17,19,22,22,-,-,-,-,-)

t26 Morrisville      21 (16,21,23,24,25)
t26 Staten Island 21 (13,22,22)
28 St. Olaf           17 (16,20,25)
29 Randy Mac      15 (15,22)
30 Scranton         13 (19,21,25)
31 Centre            10 (18,24)
32 Hope               7 (20,25)
33 Hobart             6 (20)
34 PSU-Behrend    4 (22)
35 WPI                 3 (24,25)
36 Wittenberg       1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 25, 2014, 08:12:26 PM
JG, I had the entire poll typed in when I saw your post. :P  Go ahead and submit a ballot, and I'll edit at some point.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 25, 2014, 08:14:20 PM
What an incredibly tight race from 2-5!  It came out just as I anticipated: the FF teams plus UWSP.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 25, 2014, 08:42:44 PM
Someone still voted Stevens Point #1?  ???
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 25, 2014, 08:47:19 PM
POSTERS' POLL, FINAL, 2014:

1.  UWW*         224 (unanimous, except for one 2)
t2. UWSP*        204 (1,2,2,2,3,5,5,5)
t2. Williams     204 (2,2,2,3,3,3,4,5,6)
4.  IWU           201 (2,3,3,3,4,4,4,5,5)
5.  Amherst     199 (2,3,3,4,4,4,4,4,7)
6.  Wooster*     164 (6,6,6,6,7,7,9,11,12)
7.  WashU       159 (5,5,6,6,7,7,10,11,18)
8.  M. Washington 149 (7,7,8,9,10,10,10,12,12)
9.  St. Norbert*  136 (6,8,8,9,10,12,14,14,17)
10 Cabrini*        128 (8,9,10,10,10,11,12,15,21)
11 A. Magnus   114 (6,9,9,12,13,14,17,17,23)
12 Calvin           99 (8,8,10,14,16,16,18,19,-)
13 Dickinson      93 (7,7,14,14,16,18,18,23,24)
14 Wesley          91 (8,11,11,14,16,17,19,23,24)
15 Brockport      90 (9,13,15,15,16,17,18,18,20)
16 R. Stockton   83 (11,11,11,13,16,19,19,25,-)
17 Wheaton       78 (9,9,12,13,18,20,23,-,-)
18 Plattsburgh    77 (8,13,15,15,17,20,20,21,-)
19 TX Dallas       76 (12,13,14,5,19,19,19,21,-)
20 Va. Wes         68 (8,11,13,18,21,23,23,23,-)
21 Purchase        48 (12,15,17,21,22,24,24,25,-)
22 Whitworth*      34 (14,20,20,21,24,24,25,-,-)
23 Augustana      32 (13,16,17,-,-,-,-,-,-)
24 Emory            27 (15,21,22,22,23,-,-,-,-)
25 St. Thomas     24 (17,19,22,22,-,-,-,-,-)

t26 Morrisville      21 (16,21,23,24,25)
t26 Staten Island 21 (13,22,22)
28 St. Olaf           17 (16,20,25)
29 Randy Mac      15 (15,22)
30 Scranton         13 (19,21,25)
31 Centre            10 (18,24)
32 Hope               7 (20,25)
33 Hobart             6 (20)
34 PSU-Behrend    4 (22)
35 WPI                 3 (24,25)
36 Wittenberg*       1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 25, 2014, 08:48:51 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 25, 2014, 08:42:44 PM
Someone still voted Stevens Point #1?  ???


I explained that below (or above, depending on your organizational preferences) - http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4188.msg1590864#msg1590864
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 25, 2014, 08:58:58 PM
I only had 3 new teams on my poll... Calvin, Dickinson, VA Wesleyan replaced St Thomas, St Olaf, Centre


1.  UWW         224 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2)
t2. UWSP        204 (1,2,2,2,3,5,5,5)
t2. Williams     204 (2,2,2,3,3,3,4,5,6)
4.  IWU*           201 (2,3,3,3,4,4,4,5,5)
5.  Amherst     199 (2,3,3,4,4,4,4,4,7)
6.  Wooster     164 (6,6,6,6,7,7,9,11,12)
7.  WashU       159 (5,5,6,6,7,7,10,11,18)
8.  M. Washington 149 (7,7,8,9,10,10,10,12,12)
9.  St. Norbert  136 (6,8,8,9,10,12,14,14,17)
10 Cabrini        128 (8,9,10,10,10,11,12,15,21)
11 A. Magnus*   114 (6,9,9,12,13,14,17,17,23)
12 Calvin           99 (8,8,10,14,16,16,18,19,-)
13 Dickinson      93 (7,7,14,14,16,18,18,23,24)
14 Wesley          91 (8,11,11,14,16,17,19,23,24)
15 Brockport*      90 (9,13,15,15,16,17,18,18,20)
16 R. Stockton   83 (11,11,11,13,16,19,19,25,-)
17 Wheaton       78 (9,9,12,13,18,20,23,-,-)
18 Plattsburgh    77 (8,13,15,15,17,20,20,21,-)
19 TX Dallas       76 (12,13,14,5,19,19,19,21,-)
20 Va. Wes         68 (8,11,13,18,21,23,23,23,-)
21 Purchase        48 (12,15,17,21,22,24,24,25,-)
22 Whitworth      34 (14,20,20,21,24,24,25,-,-)
23 Augustana      32 (13,16,17,-,-,-,-,-,-)
24 Emory            27 (15,21,22,22,23,-,-,-,-)
25 St. Thomas     24 (17,19,22,22,-,-,-,-,-)

t26 Morrisville      21 (16,21,23,24,25)
t26 Staten Island* 21 (13,22,22)
28 St. Olaf           17 (16,20,25)
29 Randy Mac      15 (15,22)
30 Scranton         13 (19,21,25)
31 Centre            10 (18,24)
32 Hope               7 (20,25)
33 Hobart             6 (20)
34 PSU-Behrend*    4 (22)
35 WPI*                 3 (24,25)
36 Wittenberg       1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 25, 2014, 10:40:28 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 25, 2014, 08:09:58 PM
POSTERS' POLL, FINAL, 2014:

1.  UWW         224 (unan1mous, except for one 2)
t2. UWSP        204 (1,2,2,2,3,5,5,5)
t2. Williams     204 (2,2,2,3,3,3,4,5,6)
4.  IWU           201 (2,3,3,3,4,4,4,5,5)
5.  Amherst     199 (2,3,3,4,4,4,4,4,7)
6.  Wooster     164 (6,6,6,6,7,7,9,11,12)
7.  WashU       159 (5,5,6,6,7,7,10,11,18)
8.  M. Washington 149 (7,7,8,9,10,10,10,12,12)
9.  St. Norbert  136 (6,8,8,9,10,12,14,14,17)
10 Cabrini        128 (8,9,10,10,10,11,12,15,21)
11 A. Magnus   114 (6,9,9,12,13,14,17,17,23)
12 Calvin           99 (8,8,10,14,16,16,18,19,-)
13 Dickinson      93 (7,7,14,14,16,18,18,23,24)
14 Wesley          91 (8,11,11,14,16,17,19,23,24)
15 Brockport      90 (9,13,15,15,16,17,18,18,20)
16 R. Stockton   83 (11,11,11,13,16,19,19,25,-)
17 Wheaton       78 (9,9,12,13,18,20,23,-,-)
18 Plattsburgh    77 (8,13,15,15,17,20,20,21,-)
19 TX Dallas       76 (12,13,14,5,19,19,19,21,-)
20 Va. Wes         68 (8,11,13,18,21,23,23,23,-)
21 Purchase        48 (12,15,17,21,22,24,24,25,-)
22 Whitworth      34 (14,20,20,21,24,24,25,-,-)
23 Augustana      32 (13,16,17,-,-,-,-,-,-)
24 Emory            27 (15,21,22,22,23,-,-,-,-)
25 St. Thomas     24 (17,19,22,22,-,-,-,-,-)

t26 Morrisville      21 (16,21,23,24,25)
t26 Staten Island 21 (13,22,22)
28 St. Olaf           17 (16,20,25)
29 Randy Mac      15 (15,22)
30 Scranton         13 (19,21,25)
31 Centre            10 (18,24)
32 Hope               7 (20,25)
33 Hobart             6 (20)
34 PSU-Behrend    4 (22)
35 WPI                 3 (24,25)
36 Wittenberg       1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: madzillagd on March 25, 2014, 10:50:38 PM
I'm so confused by the UWSP votes. I can understand one close game, but they played 3 close games against unranked teams. What about that poor tournament run screams Top 4 team?

UWSP +/-: +4. Against 0 ranked teams
Williams:  +141 against 4 ranked teams
IWU: +36 against 3 ranked teams
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 25, 2014, 11:11:04 PM
Quote from: madzillagd on March 25, 2014, 10:50:38 PM
I'm so confused by the UWSP votes. I can understand one close game, but they played 3 close games against unranked teams. What about that poor tournament run screams Top 4 team?

UWSP +/-: +4. Against 0 ranked teams
Williams:  +141 against 4 ranked teams
IWU: +36 against 3 ranked teams

The rest of the season.  They laid a major egg in the tourney (I wonder if anyone knows why?), but were almost unanimously #1 for the last nearly two months of the regular season.

We all have our own ways of balancing the regular season and the tournament.  I think I went more heavily for tourney results this year than in the past (as seen by my high votes for R. Stockton, Dickinson, and Morrisville), but I try to weight the entire season.  To me (and evidently the rest of the voters) the top five were CLEARLY the FF teams plus UWSP.  I have no major quibble with nearly any order amongst them.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on March 25, 2014, 11:32:27 PM
Quote from: madzillagd on March 25, 2014, 10:50:38 PM
I'm so confused by the UWSP votes. I can understand one close game, but they played 3 close games against unranked teams. What about that poor tournament run screams Top 4 team?

UWSP +/-: +4. Against 0 ranked teams
Williams:  +141 against 4 ranked teams
IWU: +36 against 3 ranked teams


They beat the National Champion twice.  I prefer to look at the whole season vs just a 3 week window.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 26, 2014, 12:50:30 AM
Point also lost both of their games in overtime. They didn't play well in the tourney, but they were still 2-1.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: toad22 on March 26, 2014, 09:08:29 AM
Championship teams play their best basketball in March, not November. Is the poll not trying to measure the championship quality of the teams? A great team that doesn't win the big ones isn't really a great team, IMHO.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 26, 2014, 09:38:46 AM
Quote from: toad22 on March 26, 2014, 09:08:29 AM
Championship teams play their best basketball in March, not November. Is the poll not trying to measure the championship quality of the teams? A great team that doesn't win the big ones isn't really a great team, IMHO.

My attempt is to rank the teams over the course of the season.  I do weight the end of the season a bit higher, since it gives teams a chance to gel and become fully formed entities (which is why I ranked Cabrini so low - they devolved over the course of the season).

I typically discount games that happen in November and those over the Christmas break as they tend to be unique scenarios for all involved.

I try to be objective in checking out who teams beat and to whom they lost. Usually the tournament champs get a big boost from all the good teams they beat in March - that was certainly the case with Whitewater for me.

Most years I end up ranking the champion #1 at the end, even if my "eye test" says someone else should be ahead of them.  I still believe Williams is better than Whitewater - in a seven game series, I'd take Williams in six - but Whitewater put up the better season overall (and obviously the championship game win is a big plus on their side.)

I think this the first year I've ranked someone else #1 over the champ.  It is not the first year I thought another team was better.  Stevens Point played an amazingly tough schedule and crushed it, losing only to the #2 team on the road in overtime, and one regrettable trap game in the tournament.  To me, that's a better season than any other team; the gap is significant enough to put them #1 at the end.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: gordonmann on March 26, 2014, 11:51:31 AM
I had a similar conundrum in casting my final ballot for Thomas More in the women's Top 25. And since no one discusses the women's Top 25 on the message boards, I figured I'd raise it here to see what others think.

Say you have a Division III team who has a totally dominating regular season.  Undefeated. Beats almost everyone by 20+ points. Breaks scoring records. Crushes its first two NCAA tournament oppponents.

And a lot of the reason for the team's success is that it has an exceptionally talented player, an All-Star at the Division I level who transferred to that Division III school. Without that player, the Division III team has never made it past the Sweet 16.  With that player, they are a strong choice to win the national championship.  They are the No. 1 team in the country entering the tournament.

Then that player gets hurt in the early part of the Elite 8 game.  It's a serious enough injury where the player doesn't play any more in that game and would probably be out for a while, if the season kept going. The player's team gets beat handily and looks like a team that should be near the bottom of the Top 25.

Note: I don't know anything about the extent of Sydney Moss' injury. Maybe she's fine now. But just go with the hypothetical scenario where the player would be out for 2-3 months for argument's sake.

Where should that team be ranked in the Final Top 25 poll?

Should they finish in the Top eight because they were one of the last eight teams standing?  Higher because of the full season of results?  Lower because the team as constituted right now, with the injury, isn't nearly as good as it was for most of the season?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 26, 2014, 01:10:46 PM
gordon, that is a toughie, and I really don't have an answer.  There was a similar situation a few years ago with top-5 Wheaton and Kent Raymond.  When he went down, they promptly dropped a couple of games they almost certainly would have won with him, then another in his first game back when he was clearly less than 100%.  They fell quite a bit, though probably less than they otherwise would have.  Once Raymond showed he was fully healthy again, I decided to all-but-ignore those three losses, and returned them pretty much to their previous ranking.  I'm just not sure what I would have done had he not returned, but probably dropped them way down or even out, since they were no longer that top-5 team from before.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: ronk on March 26, 2014, 01:20:49 PM
Gordon,
  I'm of the opinion that the poll evaluation would reflect the current situation(didn't win because of injured player and capability of winning a next game correspondingly reduced); much like the Cabrini men's situation this year when Walton-Moss suffered an injury - move them back up when the injured player returns effectively. At season's end, it's just a tough blow, but then you're into wouldve/couldve situations, otherwise.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: madzillagd on March 26, 2014, 01:28:31 PM
GM - I think that scenario is different than the men's scenario however.  The Whitman women also were crushing people throughout the year and had a deep run with only 1 more loss than TM.  Hard to dismiss their record and say they should drop below the #2 spot but I can completely understand why folks might put TM in the #3 spot on their ballot. The main difference however is UWSP had their full squad and played poorly for 3 straight games - they were not crushing people like TM was in the tournament.

On the men side I just think you can't have it both ways.  You can't say you are going to look at the entire year and that is your justification for putting UWSP in the top 2-3 and still place UWWW as your #1.  If you are going to put that much weight into the regular season (and pretty much ignore the tournament), then UWSP is your #1.  If you are going to factor in the tournament, then UWWW is your #1 and UWSP has to drop because of their weak showing.  You can't have it both ways.  But what it appears the voters did is they say their #1 is based on the tournament, but their #2 and below is based on the regular season - that makes no sense to me.  The difference between UWWW and Williams was 1 shot/1 second - you couldn't get a closer margin between two teams.  Both crushed their tournament opponents and both played many ranked teams to get there. Saying that UWSP is worse than team A but better than team B - when all that separates team A/B is 0.9 seconds and 2 points is ridiculous.   

Amherst got crushed by 29 points in the Final Four and didn't play any ranked teams before Williams in the tournament, so I don't have a problem if they drop below UWSP.  IWU I think is a little harder to justify because they did beat two ranked teams and recorded 2 more victories than UWSP.  Also the teams IWU beat in the regular season fared better in the tournament as well. But let's be realistic folks, UWSP squeezed past unranked Marian by 2 pts, barely beat unranked Central by 5, and then lost to an unranked Emory.  Those key regular season victories - St. Olaf got bounced in the first round by 13 to an unranked team, UST got bounced in the first round by  11 to an unranked team, Hope got beat in the first round by 4 to an unranked team, and Whitworth made it to the 2nd round before getting beat by a lower ranked team. 

We should look back at the entire year and when we do so for me it raises more questions than answers for UWSP.  They built up a great record and reputation in the regular season on beating these 'top' teams, but when we take a closer look at those 'top' teams all but one of them underperformed in the tournament just like UWSP did. If you point to the regular season as justifying putting UWSP 2 or 3, you aren't ignoring just their tournament run but you're ignoring the tournament run of 4 teams that underperformed.

Regular Season Comparison
UWWW
23-4    2 Losses to a Sweet 16 team, 2 losses to non-tournament teams
Williams
23-4    3 losses to a Final Four team, 1 loss to non-tournament team
UWSP
26-1    1 loss to Champion

Tournament Comparison
UWWW
6-0     3 wins against ranked teams
Williams
5-1     3 wins against ranked teams, 1 loss to Champion
UWSP
2-1      0 wins against ranked teams, 1 loss to unranked team

If UWSP is better than one of those teams they have to be better than both of them because the separation between the two is 2 pts/1 second. But with that being said, what separates these 3 teams is 3 regular season wins versus 3 tournament wins.  It just makes no sense to me at all that people would think that a regular season victory could ever be worth more than a tournament victory.  Has UWSP actually made it to the Elite 8 and lost to UWWW then I'd cut them more slack, but they lost to an unranked team that hadn't even received 1 point in the poll going into the tournament and didn't win 20 games on the year despite their Elite 8 appearance.  I think the D3Hoops voters got it right although I would not have had a problem seeing Amherst drop below UWSP.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: bopol on March 26, 2014, 01:36:27 PM
My take is the final poll should be the reflection of the entire season.  I did one and based everything except for the #1 on the whole season. 

I ended up with UWSP (#2), Wash U (#5) and Wooster (#7) despite earlier than expected exits because they played so well all year.  I also would have had UWSP ahead of UWW if I did every pick this way as UWSP played better the entire year, but I gave the nod to UWW because they won the championship game.  I applaud sac for picking UWSP #1 as a good stand against looking at just March.

Of course, good play in the tournament (Dickinson, for example) can greatly enhance the whole season.  I don't think I would have had Dickinson in my Top 35 or 40 before the tournament, but winning three games against tough opponents really helps the whole season look much better.

On the women's side, I probably would have had Thomas More #2 if I followed the same logic I applied to the men's (all but #1 based on the entire season's work). 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on March 26, 2014, 01:40:58 PM
Quote from: bopol on March 26, 2014, 01:36:27 PM


I ended up with UWSP (#2), Wash U (#5) and Wooster (#7) despite earlier than expected exits because they played so well all year.  I also would have had UWSP ahead of UWW if I did every pick this way as UWSP played better the entire year, but I gave the nod to UWW because they won the championship game. I applaud sac for picking UWSP #1 as a good stand against looking at just March.

I didn't rank UWSP #1 that was Hoops Fan.  I had WW #1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 26, 2014, 02:15:54 PM
I voted for Thomas More No. 3 -- behind FDU-Florham, which was unbeaten, and behind Whitman, the national runner-up which defeated Thomas More in the round of eight.

Sydney Moss was healthy enough to play all but the last 28 minutes of the season, so I did not spend a lot of time pondering if TMC would have beaten Tufts or UWW without her.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on March 26, 2014, 02:35:16 PM
POSTERS' POLL, FINAL, 2014:

1.  UWW         224 (unan1mous, except for one 2)
t2. UWSP        204 (1,2,2,2,3,5,5,5)
t2. Williams     204 (2,2,2,3,3,3,4,5,6)
4.  IWU           201 (2,3,3,3,4,4,4,5,5)
5.  Amherst     199 (2,3,3,4,4,4,4,4,7)
6.  Wooster     164 (6,6,6,6,7,7,9,11,12)
7.  WashU       159 (5,5,6,6,7,7,10,11,18)
8.  M. Washington 149 (7,7,8,9,10,10,10,12,12)
9.  St. Norbert  136 (6,8,8,9,10,12,14,14,17)
10 Cabrini        128 (8,9,10,10,10,11,12,15,21)
11 A. Magnus   114 (6,9,9,12,13,14,17,17,23)
12 Calvin           99 (8,8,10,14,16,16,18,19,-)
13 Dickinson      93 (7,7,14,14,16,18,18,23,24)
14 Wesley          91 (8,11,11,14,16,17,19,23,24)
15 Brockport      90 (9,13,15,15,16,17,18,18,20)
16 R. Stockton   83 (11,11,11,13,16,19,19,25,-)
17 Wheaton       78 (9,9,12,13,18,20,23,-,-)
18 Plattsburgh    77 (8,13,15,15,17,20,20,21,-)
19 TX Dallas       76 (12,13,14,5,19,19,19,21,-)
20 Va. Wes         68 (8,11,13,18,21,23,23,23,-)
21 Purchase        48 (12,15,17,21,22,24,24,25,-)
22 Whitworth      34 (14,20,20,21,24,24,25,-,-)
23 Augustana      32 (13,16,17,-,-,-,-,-,-)
24 Emory            27 (15,21,22,22,23,-,-,-,-)
25 St. Thomas     24 (17,19,22,22,-,-,-,-,-)

t26 Morrisville      21 (16,21,23,24,25)
t26 Staten Island 21 (13,22,22)
28 St. Olaf           17 (16,20,25)
29 Randy Mac      15 (15,22)
30 Scranton         13 (19,21,25)
31 Centre            10 (18,24)
32 Hope               7 (20,25)
33 Hobart             6 (20)
34 PSU-Behrend    4 (22)
35 WPI                 3 (24,25)
36 Wittenberg       1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: bopol on March 26, 2014, 05:43:54 PM
Quote from: sac on March 26, 2014, 01:40:58 PM
Quote from: bopol on March 26, 2014, 01:36:27 PM


I ended up with UWSP (#2), Wash U (#5) and Wooster (#7) despite earlier than expected exits because they played so well all year.  I also would have had UWSP ahead of UWW if I did every pick this way as UWSP played better the entire year, but I gave the nod to UWW because they won the championship game. I applaud sac for picking UWSP #1 as a good stand against looking at just March.

I didn't rank UWSP #1 that was Hoops Fan.  I had WW #1

Oh, sorry.  Kudos to Hoops Fan for going against the grain.  I guess you and I are just sheep.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: frodotwo on March 26, 2014, 06:16:49 PM
Quote from: madzillagd on March 26, 2014, 01:28:31 PM
GM - I think that scenario is different than the men's scenario however.  The Whitman women also were crushing people throughout the year and had a deep run with only 1 more loss than TM.  Hard to dismiss their record and say they should drop below the #2 spot but I can completely understand why folks might put TM in the #3 spot on their ballot. The main difference however is UWSP had their full squad and played poorly for 3 straight games - they were not crushing people like TM was in the tournament.

On the men side I just think you can't have it both ways.  You can't say you are going to look at the entire year and that is your justification for putting UWSP in the top 2-3 and still place UWWW as your #1.  If you are going to put that much weight into the regular season (and pretty much ignore the tournament), then UWSP is your #1.  If you are going to factor in the tournament, then UWWW is your #1 and UWSP has to drop because of their weak showing.  You can't have it both ways.  But what it appears the voters did is they say their #1 is based on the tournament, but their #2 and below is based on the regular season - that makes no sense to me.  The difference between UWWW and Williams was 1 shot/1 second - you couldn't get a closer margin between two teams.  Both crushed their tournament opponents and both played many ranked teams to get there. Saying that UWSP is worse than team A but better than team B - when all that separates team A/B is 0.9 seconds and 2 points is ridiculous.   

Amherst got crushed by 29 points in the Final Four and didn't play any ranked teams before Williams in the tournament, so I don't have a problem if they drop below UWSP.  IWU I think is a little harder to justify because they did beat two ranked teams and recorded 2 more victories than UWSP.  Also the teams IWU beat in the regular season fared better in the tournament as well. But let's be realistic folks, UWSP squeezed past unranked Marian by 2 pts, barely beat unranked Central by 5, and then lost to an unranked Emory.  Those key regular season victories - St. Olaf got bounced in the first round by 13 to an unranked team, UST got bounced in the first round by  11 to an unranked team, Hope got beat in the first round by 4 to an unranked team, and Whitworth made it to the 2nd round before getting beat by a lower ranked team. 

We should look back at the entire year and when we do so for me it raises more questions than answers for UWSP.  They built up a great record and reputation in the regular season on beating these 'top' teams, but when we take a closer look at those 'top' teams all but one of them underperformed in the tournament just like UWSP did. If you point to the regular season as justifying putting UWSP 2 or 3, you aren't ignoring just their tournament run but you're ignoring the tournament run of 4 teams that underperformed.

Regular Season Comparison
UWWW
23-4    2 Losses to a Sweet 16 team, 2 losses to non-tournament teams
Williams
23-4    3 losses to a Final Four team, 1 loss to non-tournament team
UWSP
26-1    1 loss to Champion

Tournament Comparison
UWWW
6-0     3 wins against ranked teams
Williams
5-1     3 wins against ranked teams, 1 loss to Champion
UWSP
2-1      0 wins against ranked teams, 1 loss to unranked team

If UWSP is better than one of those teams they have to be better than both of them because the separation between the two is 2 pts/1 second. But with that being said, what separates these 3 teams is 3 regular season wins versus 3 tournament wins.  It just makes no sense to me at all that people would think that a regular season victory could ever be worth more than a tournament victory.  Has UWSP actually made it to the Elite 8 and lost to UWWW then I'd cut them more slack, but they lost to an unranked team that hadn't even received 1 point in the poll going into the tournament and didn't win 20 games on the year despite their Elite 8 appearance.  I think the D3Hoops voters got it right although I would not have had a problem seeing Amherst drop below UWSP.

You forgot UWSP's two key victories against the eventual national champs.

And D3 Hoops top 25 voters were so unimpressed with Emory's victory over UWSP that they merely gave them 290  points and the #14 ranking.

Without a doubt UWSP did not play well in the tourney and I did not have them ranked ahead of the final four teams in my poll:

1.    UW Whitewater
2.    Williams
3.    Amherst
4.    IWU
5.    UW SP
6.    Wash U
7.    Wooster
8.    Cabrini
9.    St Norbert
10.  Mary Washington

Calvin, Dickinson and Morrisville State were the only teams in my final top 25 that I did not rank in there at some time during the year. Calvin and Dickinson were on my radar and in the next 5 in  a few times, but Morrisville State was not until they added 3 wins in the tourney. Wins in the tourney garnered a few brownie points, but the entire body of work throughout the season is what I ranked the teams at the end. Here's what my poll was prior to the tourney:

1.    UWSP      
2.    Wash U      
3.    Wooster      
4.    Amherst      
5.    UWW      
6.    IWU         
7.    Cabrini      
8.    St. Norbert      
9.    Purchase      
10.  Brockport State   
11.  Williams

The Final 4 teams blew out their competition in the tourney up until Salem (With the exception of IWU's last second victory over Webster), and that along with their entire body of work throughout the year led me to rank them over UWSP.

      




Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: bopol on March 26, 2014, 08:46:56 PM
Quote from: madzillagd on March 26, 2014, 01:28:31 PM
GM - I think that scenario is different than the men's scenario however.  The Whitman women also were crushing people throughout the year and had a deep run with only 1 more loss than TM.  Hard to dismiss their record and say they should drop below the #2 spot but I can completely understand why folks might put TM in the #3 spot on their ballot. The main difference however is UWSP had their full squad and played poorly for 3 straight games - they were not crushing people like TM was in the tournament.

On the men side I just think you can't have it both ways.  You can't say you are going to look at the entire year and that is your justification for putting UWSP in the top 2-3 and still place UWWW as your #1.  If you are going to put that much weight into the regular season (and pretty much ignore the tournament), then UWSP is your #1.  If you are going to factor in the tournament, then UWWW is your #1 and UWSP has to drop because of their weak showing.  You can't have it both ways.  But what it appears the voters did is they say their #1 is based on the tournament, but their #2 and below is based on the regular season - that makes no sense to me.  The difference between UWWW and Williams was 1 shot/1 second - you couldn't get a closer margin between two teams.  Both crushed their tournament opponents and both played many ranked teams to get there. Saying that UWSP is worse than team A but better than team B - when all that separates team A/B is 0.9 seconds and 2 points is ridiculous.   

Amherst got crushed by 29 points in the Final Four and didn't play any ranked teams before Williams in the tournament, so I don't have a problem if they drop below UWSP.  IWU I think is a little harder to justify because they did beat two ranked teams and recorded 2 more victories than UWSP.  Also the teams IWU beat in the regular season fared better in the tournament as well. But let's be realistic folks, UWSP squeezed past unranked Marian by 2 pts, barely beat unranked Central by 5, and then lost to an unranked Emory.  Those key regular season victories - St. Olaf got bounced in the first round by 13 to an unranked team, UST got bounced in the first round by  11 to an unranked team, Hope got beat in the first round by 4 to an unranked team, and Whitworth made it to the 2nd round before getting beat by a lower ranked team. 

We should look back at the entire year and when we do so for me it raises more questions than answers for UWSP.  They built up a great record and reputation in the regular season on beating these 'top' teams, but when we take a closer look at those 'top' teams all but one of them underperformed in the tournament just like UWSP did. If you point to the regular season as justifying putting UWSP 2 or 3, you aren't ignoring just their tournament run but you're ignoring the tournament run of 4 teams that underperformed.

Regular Season Comparison
UWWW
23-4    2 Losses to a Sweet 16 team, 2 losses to non-tournament teams
Williams
23-4    3 losses to a Final Four team, 1 loss to non-tournament team
UWSP
26-1    1 loss to Champion

Tournament Comparison
UWWW
6-0     3 wins against ranked teams
Williams
5-1     3 wins against ranked teams, 1 loss to Champion
UWSP
2-1      0 wins against ranked teams, 1 loss to unranked team

If UWSP is better than one of those teams they have to be better than both of them because the separation between the two is 2 pts/1 second. But with that being said, what separates these 3 teams is 3 regular season wins versus 3 tournament wins.  It just makes no sense to me at all that people would think that a regular season victory could ever be worth more than a tournament victory.  Has UWSP actually made it to the Elite 8 and lost to UWWW then I'd cut them more slack, but they lost to an unranked team that hadn't even received 1 point in the poll going into the tournament and didn't win 20 games on the year despite their Elite 8 appearance.  I think the D3Hoops voters got it right although I would not have had a problem seeing Amherst drop below UWSP.

I think it is necessary to reduce the information to something that we can handle, but I worry about reducing the regular season just losses and not consider all the good wins that UWSP had.

For the season, I looked at the record against Top 50 for the entire season (using Massey)

UWW 9-3
UWSP 9-2
Amherst 6-1
Wash U 5-3
Williams 4-4
IWU 11-4
Wooster 7-2
Wesley 7-2

This and overall record was what I used to guide myself at least.

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 26, 2014, 09:01:14 PM
Just pored over the Bracket Challenge standings.  I had three of the FF teams (which kept me pretty high), but UWSP winning it all instead of UWW.  IF UWSP had not laid an egg, I suspect I would have won it all (at least top three). :P

Oh well, I'm not gonna complain about top 10%.

And I DID beat all the other PP voters! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: frodotwo on March 26, 2014, 11:47:50 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 26, 2014, 09:01:14 PM
Just pored over the Bracket Challenge standings.  I had three of the FF teams (which kept me pretty high), but UWSP winning it all instead of UWW.  IF UWSP had not laid an egg, I suspect I would have won it all (at least top three). :P

Oh well, I'm not gonna complain about top 10%.

And I DID beat all the other PP voters! ;D

Yeah I had 3 of the 4 and UWSP winning it as well. I think I was tied for 11th going into the final four and I would have ended up 3 points behind you had Point won just as I did at the end now.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: nescac1 on March 27, 2014, 11:48:25 AM
Looking at the final poll, next year will be one of the more challenging pre-season polls in recent memory, I would have to think.  Whitewater will be a strong pre-season number one, returning Young, Evans, Odegaard, plus some young guys who are no doubt ready to step up.  Williams will still be very good,  a top-10 caliber team (at least in next year's climate of uncertainty) led by Duncan Robinson, but Mayer just dominated the entire NCAA tourney and is a huge loss.  IWU loses a ton of talent up front, although will have a strong perimeter game and also still looks like a top-10 team.  Amherst is minus Toomey plus two other stellar starters, and the Jeffs have their most question marks in years.  It's hard to imagine Stevens Point even in the top 25 in light of who they graduate and the limited production returning, but perhaps they get there just out of respect for the program.  Same goes for Wash U. and Mary Washington.  St. Norbert graduates four starters including the top two players.  Wooster loses Thorpe, Dickinson Honig, Albertus Watson, Calvin Kruis, Emory Davis, Wheaton Peters, Wesley Langan, UTD Schleigh, VWU Woodmore, and on and on. Cabrini seems to return the most other than Whitewater, but Cabrini did not look great late in the season and in the tourney, and there aren't any other returning top-20 teams that won't feature enormous uncertainties. 

This year featured a simply awesome group of seniors in Division 3, and a lot of teams are going to be decimated.  Meanwhile, next year's group of seniors seems strangely shallow in talent.  I know that to be the case in NESCAC, the league I (obviously) most closely follow, where there were three underclassmen, but only one junior, on the all conference teams.  But it seems that way nationally, too -- there is Walton-Moss, KJ Evans, Ross Danzig, Xavier Brown, but that is about the extent (maybe a few others, but not a ton) of returning guys are look like surefire nationally elite kind of players.  All that combines, in my view, to make next year the most wide open year in Division 3 in recent memory, after a clear number one, all bets are off.   
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 27, 2014, 08:09:21 PM

I went through the tournament rosters (from the tournament program) looking for teams returning a lot.  The big one is, obviously, Augustana returning everyone.  I thought Randolph-Macon's returning roster quite strong - and perhaps MIT; they bring back everyone and were probably underperforming most of this season.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on March 28, 2014, 01:36:38 AM
Quote from: nescac1 on March 27, 2014, 11:48:25 AM
Looking at the final poll, next year will be one of the more challenging pre-season polls in recent memory, I would have to think.  Whitewater will be a strong pre-season number one, returning Young, Evans, Odegaard, plus some young guys who are no doubt ready to step up.  Williams will still be very good,  a top-10 caliber team (at least in next year's climate of uncertainty) led by Duncan Robinson, but Mayer just dominated the entire NCAA tourney and is a huge loss.  IWU loses a ton of talent up front, although will have a strong perimeter game and also still looks like a top-10 team.  Amherst is minus Toomey plus two other stellar starters, and the Jeffs have their most question marks in years.  It's hard to imagine Stevens Point even in the top 25 in light of who they graduate and the limited production returning, but perhaps they get there just out of respect for the program.  Same goes for Wash U. and Mary Washington.  St. Norbert graduates four starters including the top two players.  Wooster loses Thorpe, Dickinson Honig, Albertus Watson, Calvin Kruis, Emory Davis, Wheaton Peters, Wesley Langan, UTD Schleigh, VWU Woodmore, and on and on. Cabrini seems to return the most other than Whitewater, but Cabrini did not look great late in the season and in the tourney, and there aren't any other returning top-20 teams that won't feature enormous uncertainties. 

This year featured a simply awesome group of seniors in Division 3, and a lot of teams are going to be decimated.  Meanwhile, next year's group of seniors seems strangely shallow in talent.  I know that to be the case in NESCAC, the league I (obviously) most closely follow, where there were three underclassmen, but only one junior, on the all conference teams.  But it seems that way nationally, too -- there is Walton-Moss, KJ Evans, Ross Danzig, Xavier Brown, but that is about the extent (maybe a few others, but not a ton) of returning guys are look like surefire nationally elite kind of players.  All that combines, in my view, to make next year the most wide open year in Division 3 in recent memory, after a clear number one, all bets are off.

One school in the final poll that might not be in bad shape next year is Sweet 16 team, Plattsburgh State. They had an 8 man rotation that averaged from 12 to 29 minutes per game. They only lose 3 players from that rotation and in an unusual occurrence they will be re-acquiring 3 players that didn't play this year but were major contributors during the 2012-13 season.

One of those players, Jordan Moody, did play in 6 games this year but left the team before Christmas to do an internship that left him unable to complete the season. He averaged 10.0 ppg last year and was averaging 11.8 ppg this year when he had to call it quits. Jordan is a 6'2" senior guard who has speed, hops and the quickest first step on the team. He has started 28 of the last 35 games he played in and averaged over 22 minutes per game.

Another player that didn't play this year will be 5th year senior Reggie Williams. Reggie fractured a bone in his foot before the season started and when he was unable to practice by January the decision was made to wait till next year. Reggie is a 6'6" 240 lb forward who had been promoted to the starting lineup toward the end of the 2012-13 season, when an injury to another player opened up a spot for him. In the last 8 games of that season Reggie averaged 10 ppg and 6 rpg while getting 21 minutes of court time per game.

The 3rd player that the Cardinals will get back from the 2012-13 season is Kalik Parker, a 6'4" senior G/F who led the team with 52 three pointers that season. Kalik had double figures in 12 games and ended up with a 7.6 ppg average while grabbing 3.4 rpg.

To lose three senior starters and have them replaced by, essentially, 3 returning senior starters, is rather unheard of. Plattsburgh will be deeper next year than they were this year without even adding any new recruits.  The coaching staff is trying to get a 6'8" junior college transfer that is a rebounding machine and a 6"4" G/F/ out of NYC, but if the returning players from this year's team improve, as they should, that,  along with the three from the 2012-13 season, should keep the Cardinals in the mix as a Top 25 team. Any decent recruits will just be a bonus.               
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 28, 2014, 08:40:36 AM
Quote from: magicman on March 28, 2014, 01:36:38 AM
Quote from: nescac1 on March 27, 2014, 11:48:25 AM
Looking at the final poll, next year will be one of the more challenging pre-season polls in recent memory, I would have to think.  Whitewater will be a strong pre-season number one, returning Young, Evans, Odegaard, plus some young guys who are no doubt ready to step up.  Williams will still be very good,  a top-10 caliber team (at least in next year's climate of uncertainty) led by Duncan Robinson, but Mayer just dominated the entire NCAA tourney and is a huge loss.  IWU loses a ton of talent up front, although will have a strong perimeter game and also still looks like a top-10 team.  Amherst is minus Toomey plus two other stellar starters, and the Jeffs have their most question marks in years.  It's hard to imagine Stevens Point even in the top 25 in light of who they graduate and the limited production returning, but perhaps they get there just out of respect for the program.  Same goes for Wash U. and Mary Washington.  St. Norbert graduates four starters including the top two players.  Wooster loses Thorpe, Dickinson Honig, Albertus Watson, Calvin Kruis, Emory Davis, Wheaton Peters, Wesley Langan, UTD Schleigh, VWU Woodmore, and on and on. Cabrini seems to return the most other than Whitewater, but Cabrini did not look great late in the season and in the tourney, and there aren't any other returning top-20 teams that won't feature enormous uncertainties. 

This year featured a simply awesome group of seniors in Division 3, and a lot of teams are going to be decimated.  Meanwhile, next year's group of seniors seems strangely shallow in talent.  I know that to be the case in NESCAC, the league I (obviously) most closely follow, where there were three underclassmen, but only one junior, on the all conference teams.  But it seems that way nationally, too -- there is Walton-Moss, KJ Evans, Ross Danzig, Xavier Brown, but that is about the extent (maybe a few others, but not a ton) of returning guys are look like surefire nationally elite kind of players.  All that combines, in my view, to make next year the most wide open year in Division 3 in recent memory, after a clear number one, all bets are off.

One school in the final poll that might not be in bad shape next year is Sweet 16 team, Plattsburgh State. They had an 8 man rotation that averaged from 12 to 29 minutes per game. They only lose 3 players from that rotation and in an unusual occurrence they will be re-acquiring 3 players that didn't play this year but were major contributors during the 2012-13 season.

One of those players, Jordan Moody, did play in 6 games this year but left the team before Christmas to do an internship that left him unable to complete the season. He averaged 10.0 ppg last year and was averaging 11.8 ppg this year when he had to call it quits. Jordan is a 6'2" senior guard who has speed, hops and the quickest first step on the team. He has started 28 of the last 35 games he played in and averaged over 22 minutes per game.

Another player that didn't play this year will be 5th year senior Reggie Williams. Reggie fractured a bone in his foot before the season started and when he was unable to practice by January the decision was made to wait till next year. Reggie is a 6'6" 240 lb forward who had been promoted to the starting lineup toward the end of the 2012-13 season, when an injury to another player opened up a spot for him. In the last 8 games of that season Reggie averaged 10 ppg and 6 rpg while getting 21 minutes of court time per game.

The 3rd player that the Cardinals will get back from the 2012-13 season is Kalik Parker, a 6'4" senior G/F who led the team with 52 three pointers that season. Kalik had double figures in 12 games and ended up with a 7.6 ppg average while grabbing 3.4 rpg.

To lose three senior starters and have them replaced by, essentially, 3 returning senior starters, is rather unheard of. Plattsburgh will be deeper next year than they were this year without even adding any new recruits.  The coaching staff is trying to get a 6'8" junior college transfer that is a rebounding machine and a 6"4" G/F/ out of NYC, but if the returning players from this year's team improve, as they should, that,  along with the three from the 2012-13 season, should keep the Cardinals in the mix as a Top 25 team. Any decent recruits will just be a bonus.             

Now that is the kind of inside information we need!  Nice job.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pjunito on March 28, 2014, 07:00:29 PM
I follow the GNAC of course. Albertus returns everyone except Watson. Vic L and Davis will lead the group as seniors, Jennings and Lersen are also returning, along with their best 3 reserve players. I am not sure if that team would be viewed as a top 25 team. But, Oliver's has been able to bring in some good players the last few years. If he can replace Watson's production with 3 players (some who play more defense than Watson) than I think they should be considered for top 25.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 29, 2014, 11:07:38 AM
Quote from: pjunito on March 28, 2014, 07:00:29 PM
I follow the GNAC of course. Albertus returns everyone except Watson. Vic L

You didnt want to try to spell L-j-u-l-j-d-j-u-r-a-j?

I had to learn to spell his name since he was on my fantasy team...isnt that a rule?  :P

Kind  of like T.J. Houshmandzadeh.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: gordonmann on March 29, 2014, 01:53:40 PM
How is that name pronounced?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: sac on March 29, 2014, 02:01:15 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on March 29, 2014, 01:53:40 PM
How is that name pronounced?

Victor
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 29, 2014, 02:06:28 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on March 29, 2014, 01:53:40 PM
How is that name pronounced?

I said I could SPELL it, not pronounce it.  ;D

Quote from: sac on March 29, 2014, 02:01:15 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on March 29, 2014, 01:53:40 PM
How is that name pronounced?

Victor

LOL

Very nice +1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: pjunito on March 31, 2014, 12:05:20 PM
It is pronounced - Luh - Ju - Die

I know right?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: gordonmann on March 31, 2014, 12:38:32 PM
Ha, thanks.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on September 02, 2014, 11:07:01 AM
Quote from: nescac1 on March 27, 2014, 11:48:25 AM
Looking at the final poll, next year will be one of the more challenging pre-season polls in recent memory, I would have to think.  Whitewater will be a strong pre-season number one, returning Young, Evans, Odegaard, plus some young guys who are no doubt ready to step up.  Williams will still be very good,  a top-10 caliber team (at least in next year's climate of uncertainty) led by Duncan Robinson, but Mayer just dominated the entire NCAA tourney and is a huge loss.  IWU loses a ton of talent up front, although will have a strong perimeter game and also still looks like a top-10 team.  Amherst is minus Toomey plus two other stellar starters, and the Jeffs have their most question marks in years.  It's hard to imagine Stevens Point even in the top 25 in light of who they graduate and the limited production returning, but perhaps they get there just out of respect for the program.  Same goes for Wash U. and Mary Washington.  St. Norbert graduates four starters including the top two players.  Wooster loses Thorpe, Dickinson Honig, Albertus Watson, Calvin Kruis, Emory Davis, Wheaton Peters, Wesley Langan, UTD Schleigh, VWU Woodmore, and on and on. Cabrini seems to return the most other than Whitewater, but Cabrini did not look great late in the season and in the tourney, and there aren't any other returning top-20 teams that won't feature enormous uncertainties. 

This year featured a simply awesome group of seniors in Division 3, and a lot of teams are going to be decimated.  Meanwhile, next year's group of seniors seems strangely shallow in talent.  I know that to be the case in NESCAC, the league I (obviously) most closely follow, where there were three underclassmen, but only one junior, on the all conference teams.  But it seems that way nationally, too -- there is Walton-Moss, KJ Evans, Ross Danzig, Xavier Brown, but that is about the extent (maybe a few others, but not a ton) of returning guys are look like surefire nationally elite kind of players.  All that combines, in my view, to make next year the most wide open year in Division 3 in recent memory, after a clear number one, all bets are off.

With Duncan Robinson's transfer to Michigan, Williams falls from a FF candidate to a team unlikely to even make the tourney.  It is just as well that DR has to sit a year - based on what I saw at Salem, he has the potential for D1 stardom, but he HAS to put on some bulk and muscle.  A year with the Michigan strength and conditioning coach will do wonders for him.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on September 02, 2014, 11:09:16 AM
After last winter's brutality, Mrs. Y and I are probably going to be snowbirds this year.  Since I don't know what my internet access may or may not be, I must reluctantly pass the PP mantle to someone else.  Any takers?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on September 02, 2014, 12:51:39 PM
Ordinarily I'd volunteer but by the time basketball rolls around I'm just burnt out from running the football poll and pickems (of course by the time it's August I'm all eager for things to get going again ::)). If no one else steps up though I'm sure I can squeeze it into my duties
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on September 02, 2014, 06:09:12 PM
Well, we have a reluctant, last-resort volunteer - any eager volunteers?  It really is quite intriguing to see the poll shaping up, ballot by ballot and wonder 'what was this voter smoking'! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 02, 2014, 07:29:36 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on September 02, 2014, 06:09:12 PM
Well, we have a reluctant, last-resort volunteer - any eager volunteers?  It really is quite intriguing to see the poll shaping up, ballot by ballot and wonder 'what was this voter smoking'! ;D
I did not know we pollsters in Colorado or Washington.?.?.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on September 02, 2014, 08:11:04 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 02, 2014, 07:29:36 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on September 02, 2014, 06:09:12 PM
Well, we have a reluctant, last-resort volunteer - any eager volunteers?  It really is quite intriguing to see the poll shaping up, ballot by ballot and wonder 'what was this voter smoking'! ;D
I did not know we pollsters in Colorado or Washington.?.?.

I assure you that smoking funny stuff occurs other than in Colorado and Washington!

For example, I used to to it in Illinois and Michigan. ;)  I would have done it in Maine, but the border agents (on our honeymoon trip) in New York found the stuff.  (I was lucky; they didn't find the stuff that would have gotten me a life sentence in NY at the time.  The judge thought it was all pretty much a joke, called us 'Bonnie and Clyde', and sentenced me to a year's probation.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on September 02, 2014, 11:34:26 PM
Might it be possible to set up something through Survey Monkey with a template that could be re-used every week? I'm not very familiar with creating surveys, but maybe I'll have time to look into it.

EDIT: Looks like there might also be an option to set up a Poll Form through Google Docs.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on September 03, 2014, 05:25:48 PM
I have used the poll forms through Google before... seem pretty helpful and user friendly.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on September 03, 2014, 11:53:23 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on September 02, 2014, 06:09:12 PM
Well, we have a reluctant, last-resort volunteer - any eager volunteers?  It really is quite intriguing to see the poll shaping up, ballot by ballot and wonder 'what was this voter smoking'! ;D

I'll stand up and accept the challenge!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 05, 2014, 12:56:01 AM
Quote from: 7express on September 03, 2014, 11:53:23 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on September 02, 2014, 06:09:12 PM
Well, we have a reluctant, last-resort volunteer - any eager volunteers?  It really is quite intriguing to see the poll shaping up, ballot by ballot and wonder 'what was this voter smoking'! ;D

I'll stand up and accept the challenge!
You will sit in front of your computer screen for hours on end and wait for PM's and emails to dump on you!   :)  Thanks for doing it.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on September 05, 2014, 04:01:16 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on September 02, 2014, 11:09:16 AM
After last winter's brutality, Mrs. Y and I are probably going to be snowbirds this year.  Since I don't know what my internet access may or may not be, I must reluctantly pass the PP mantle to someone else.  Any takers?

I must say that's a pretty flimsy excuse for a resignation. :P You think Florida may not have internet access where you'll be located ? I'm the one with internet problems up here in the wilderness of Northern New York where I still can't get high speed internet at my house and I'm forced to use a dial up phone connection. (Although Charter Communications has told me that I may be able to get a high speed connection in about 2 months from now) As a Posters' Poll voter that hasn't missed a poll in God knows how many years I'm stunned that I'll have to send my Top 25 to someone other than you. I demand a recount! :o

I suppose the next thing we'll hear from you is that you can't participate in the National Pick Em League and the NCAA Tournament Fantasy League because of your internet access as well. ???
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on December 04, 2014, 06:10:19 AM
So what's the status on things here? Who's running it and when will the first ballots be due? End of the first weekend of January?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 04, 2014, 07:19:42 AM

I imagine January 12th would be a good day for the first poll.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on December 04, 2014, 11:51:14 AM
By that time everyone will have a .500 record!  ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 04, 2014, 12:53:02 PM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on December 04, 2014, 06:10:19 AM
So what's the status on things here? Who's running it and when will the first ballots be due? End of the first weekend of January?

7express has volunteered to administer the poll.  My guess would be the first poll would include games thru Jan 11, but that is up to him.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on December 04, 2014, 09:17:18 PM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on December 04, 2014, 06:10:19 AM
So what's the status on things here? Who's running it and when will the first ballots be due? End of the first weekend of January?

I guess I'm running it this year  ???

A good time to start it would be the second Sunday of January (the 11th).   All games through the end of that day (and all Sundays in future weeks) would be included.  Unlike Mr. Y who gave the Tuesday deadline, I'll leave the deadline for Wednesday at 8 PM Eastern since Tuesday is the LEC day and I'm usually busy with that.  So, no excuses for why you can't submit a vote since you have 24 extra hours to do one this year!

So, the first week ballots are due by 8 PM Eastern on Wednesday the 14th of January.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: ronk on December 04, 2014, 09:39:15 PM
The winner gets to be the 9th vote at the NCAA Pool C selection and tourney bracketing.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on December 04, 2014, 10:09:21 PM
Quote from: ronk on December 04, 2014, 09:39:15 PM
The winner gets to be the 9th vote at the NCAA Pool C selection and tourney bracketing.

Maybe I missed something ronk...the winner of what???
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: ronk on December 04, 2014, 11:19:33 PM
Quote from: magicman on December 04, 2014, 10:09:21 PM
Quote from: ronk on December 04, 2014, 09:39:15 PM
The winner gets to be the 9th vote at the NCAA Pool C selection and tourney bracketing.

Maybe I missed something ronk...the winner of what???

I got ahead of myself thinking there was a winner rather than every one contributing to a consensus top 25 - false alarm :-[
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on December 05, 2014, 04:33:11 AM
Quote from: ronk on December 04, 2014, 11:19:33 PM
Quote from: magicman on December 04, 2014, 10:09:21 PM
Quote from: ronk on December 04, 2014, 09:39:15 PM
The winner gets to be the 9th vote at the NCAA Pool C selection and tourney bracketing.

Maybe I missed something ronk...the winner of what???

I got ahead of myself thinking there was a winner rather than every one contributing to a consensus top 25 - false alarm :-[

Just those competitive juices flowing ronk.  ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 03, 2015, 06:49:42 AM
Quote from: 7express on December 04, 2014, 09:17:18 PM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on December 04, 2014, 06:10:19 AM
So what's the status on things here? Who's running it and when will the first ballots be due? End of the first weekend of January?

I guess I'm running it this year  ???

A good time to start it would be the second Sunday of January (the 11th).   All games through the end of that day (and all Sundays in future weeks) would be included.  Unlike Mr. Y who gave the Tuesday deadline, I'll leave the deadline for Wednesday at 8 PM Eastern since Tuesday is the LEC day and I'm usually busy with that.  So, no excuses for why you can't submit a vote since you have 24 extra hours to do one this year!

So, the first week ballots are due by 8 PM Eastern on Wednesday the 14th of January.
One more week and then it's ballot time. How many do we have this year? I know we got up to 10 on the football poll.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on January 05, 2015, 01:02:33 AM
Just a reminder, this week is when we start the ballots.  Unlike Mr. Y who gave the Tuesday deadline, the deadline for me will be Wednesday at 8 PM Eastern time HOWEVER you cannot take Tuesday night's game into consideration when making your ballots, only results through Sunday will count, so no excuse for you not to make a ballot.  The only reason I'm giving the extra day is because Tuesday night is LEC night.  Even though we aren't producing one for this week, I have already started one, so I have a base to go off of, if someone wants to send me a practice ballot feel free to do that.  Remember I do have the right to veto a ballot.  It probably won't happen, but if you submit a ballot that has 3-7 Plymouth state in the top 5, 3-8 New Jersey City in the top 10, 2-6 Rivier in the top 15, 1-6 Mitchell in the top 20, 0-8 Baptist Bible #24 and 0-8 Cairn #25 you'll probably have a problem and likely get veto'd.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: dc_has_been on January 05, 2015, 12:36:02 PM
Sooooooo, don't put Earlham in the top 25 is what you are saying? ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on January 12, 2015, 11:52:48 AM
I have a wake and funeral I need to attend Wednesday and Thursday so I don't think I'll be able to post the poll until Thursday evening so I'll give an updated deadline until Thursday at 5 Eastern.  Sorry for the delay!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on January 14, 2015, 10:53:29 PM
I've gotten only 6 polls.  I'm not gonna be able to post it until tomorrow night anyways, so I'm giving an 8 PM Thursday deadline for the next week.  Remember, only games through Sunday count!  If the team you had #1 lost on Wednesday or Tuesday, it does not count towards this weeks poll.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on January 16, 2015, 12:52:56 AM
Posters Poll 1-15-15.  Actually have 26 teams in the first poll for this year, awesome start!

1) Augustana 217 (1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 4)
2) UW-Whitewater 208 (1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 4, 4, 4, 5)
3) St Thomas 203 (1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 5, 6, 7)
4) Marietta 184 (1, 2, 4, 5, 5, 5, 7, 10, 11)
5) Wash U 182 (1, 3, 3, 4, 5, 5, 6, 7, 18)
6) Dickinson 160 (3, 3, 4, 5, 7, 7, 8, 11, NR)
7) Emory 159 (6, 6, 7, 7, 8, 8, 9, 9, 15)
8) North Central (IL) 150 (4, 4, 6, 6, 8, 9, 9, 12, NR)
9) Wooster 140 (6, 7, 8, 9, 12, 13, 13, 13, 13)
10) franklin & Marshall 130 (6, 10, 10, 11, 12, 12, 12, 15, 16)
11) Richard Stockton 127 (5, 7, 9, 11, 12, 14, 14, 16, 19)
12) VA Wesleyan 118 (8, 8, 9, 13, 14, 14, 15, 17, 18)
13) Babson 104 (10, 10, 10, 13, 14, 17, 17, 19, 20)
14) UW-Stevens Point 98 (6, 10, 11, 15, 15, 16, 18, 19, NR)
15) Randolph-Macon 93 (10, 12, 13, 13, 15, 16, 17, 22, 23)
16) OH Wesleyan 80 (14, 14, 14, 16, 17, 17, 17, 19, NR)
17) Chapman 73 (3, 11, 15, 19, 21, 21, 21, 24, NR)
T18) St. Norbert 72 (8, 15, 16, 18, 19, 19, 19, 22, NR)
T18) St. Olaf 72 (9, 10, 17, 18, 18, 19, 22, 23, NR)
20) Albertus Magnus 71 (8, 12, 12, 16, 17, 20, NR, NR, NR)
21) WPI 63 (11, 11, 13, 15, 21, 22, NR, NR, NR)
22) Elmhurst 36 (20, 20, 20, 20, 21, 22, 23, NR, NR)
23) Hardin-Simmons 26 (16, 18, 23, 23, 25, 25, NR, NR, NR)
24) Illinois Wesleyan 24 (16, 18, 20, NR, NR, NR, NR, NR, NR)
T25) Eastern Connecticut 22 (14, 21, 24, 24, 25, NR, NR, NR, NR)
T25) Whitworth 22 (9, 22, NR, NR, NR, NR, NR, NR, NR)
------------------------

27) Chicago 19 (21, 22, 22, 23, 24, 25)
28) Whitman 15 (11)
29) Rowan 14 (18, 23, 24, 25)
30) Scranton 9 (22, 23, 24)
31) Amherst 8 (20, 24)
32) Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 6 (20)
T33) Bates 5 (23, 24)
T33) Lynchburg 5 (21)
35) Rhode Island College 4 (22)
T36) MIT 2 (25, 25)
T36) Johns Hopkins 2 (24)
T38) Case Western Reserve 1 (25)
T38) Baldwin-Wallace 1 (25)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on January 16, 2015, 12:58:51 AM
1) Augustana 217 (1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 4)
2) UW-Whitewater 208 (1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 4, 4, 4, 5)
3) St Thomas 203 (1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 5, 6, 7)
4) Marietta 184 (1, 2, 4, 5, 5, 5, 7, 10, 11)
5) Wash U 182 (1, 3, 3, 4, 5, 5, 6, 7, 18)
6) Dickinson 160 (3, 3, 4, 5, 7, 7, 8, 11, NR)
7) Emory 159 (6, 6, 7, 7, 8, 8, 9, 9, 15)
8) North Central (IL) 150 (4, 4, 6, 6, 8, 9, 9, 12, NR)
9) Wooster 140 (6, 7, 8, 9, 12, 13, 13, 13, 13)
10) franklin & Marshall 130 (6, 10, 10, 11, 12, 12, 12, 15, 16)
11) Richard Stockton 127 (5, 7, 9, 11, 12, 14, 14, 16, 19)
12) VA Wesleyan 118 (8, 8, 9, 13, 14, 14, 15, 17, 18)
13) Babson 104 (10, 10, 10, 13, 14, 17, 17, 19, 20)
14) UW-Stevens Point 98 (6, 10, 11, 15, 15, 16, 18, 19, NR)
15) Randolph-Macon 93 (10, 12, 13, 13, 15, 16, 17, 22, 23)
16) OH Wesleyan 80 (14, 14, 14, 16, 17, 17, 17, 19, NR)
17) Chapman 73 (3, 11, 15, 19, 21, 21, 21, 24, NR)
T18) St. Norbert 72 (8, 15, 16, 18, 19, 19, 19, 22, NR)
T18) St. Olaf 72 (9, 10, 17, 18, 18, 19, 22, 23, NR)*
20) Albertus Magnus 71 (8, 12, 12, 16, 17, 20, NR, NR, NR)
21) WPI 63 (11, 11, 13, 15, 21, 22, NR, NR, NR)
22) Elmhurst 36 (20, 20, 20, 20, 21, 22, 23, NR, NR)
23) Hardin-Simmons 26 (16, 18, 23, 23, 25, 25, NR, NR, NR)
24) Illinois Wesleyan 24 (16, 18, 20, NR, NR, NR, NR, NR, NR)
T25) Eastern Connecticut 22 (14, 21, 24, 24, 25, NR, NR, NR, NR)
T25) Whitworth 22 (9, 22, NR, NR, NR, NR, NR, NR, NR)
------------------------

27) Chicago 19 (21, 22, 22, 23, 24, 25)
28) Whitman 15 (11)
29) Rowan 14 (18, 23, 24, 25)
30) Scranton 9 (22, 23, 24)
31) Amherst 8 (20, 24)*
32) Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 6 (20)
T33) Bates 5 (23, 24)
T33) Lynchburg 5 (21)
35) Rhode Island College 4 (22)
T36) MIT 2 (25, 25)*
T36) Johns Hopkins 2 (24)
T38) Case Western Reserve 1 (25)
T38) Baldwin-Wallace 1 (25)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 16, 2015, 12:59:56 AM
1) Augustana 217 (1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 4)
2) UW-Whitewater 208 (1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 4, 4, 4, 5)*
3) St Thomas 203 (1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 5, 6, 7)
4) Marietta 184 (1, 2, 4, 5, 5, 5, 7, 10, 11)*
5) Wash U 182 (1, 3, 3, 4, 5, 5, 6, 7, 18)
6) Dickinson 160 (3, 3, 4, 5, 7, 7, 8, 11, NR)
7) Emory 159 (6, 6, 7, 7, 8, 8, 9, 9, 15)
8) North Central (IL) 150 (4, 4, 6, 6, 8, 9, 9, 12, NR)*
9) Wooster 140 (6, 7, 8, 9, 12, 13, 13, 13, 13)
10) Franklin & Marshall 130 (6, 10, 10, 11, 12, 12, 12, 15, 16)*
11) Richard Stockton 127 (5, 7, 9, 11, 12, 14, 14, 16, 19)
12) VA Wesleyan 118 (8, 8, 9, 13, 14, 14, 15, 17, 18)
13) Babson 104 (10, 10, 10, 13, 14, 17, 17, 19, 20)
14) UW-Stevens Point 98 (6, 10, 11, 15, 15, 16, 18, 19, NR)
15) Randolph-Macon 93 (10, 12, 13, 13, 15, 16, 17, 22, 23)
16) OH Wesleyan 80 (14, 14, 14, 16, 17, 17, 17, 19, NR)
17) Chapman 73 (3, 11, 15, 19, 21, 21, 21, 24, NR)
T18) St. Norbert 72 (8, 15, 16, 18, 19, 19, 19, 22, NR)*
T18) St. Olaf 72 (9, 10, 17, 18, 18, 19, 22, 23, NR)
20) Albertus Magnus 71 (8, 12, 12, 16, 17, 20, NR, NR, NR)
21) WPI 63 (11, 11, 13, 15, 21, 22, NR, NR, NR)
22) Elmhurst 36 (20, 20, 20, 20, 21, 22, 23, NR, NR)
23) Hardin-Simmons 26 (16, 18, 23, 23, 25, 25, NR, NR, NR)*
24) Illinois Wesleyan 24 (16, 18, 20, NR, NR, NR, NR, NR, NR)
T25) Eastern Connecticut 22 (14, 21, 24, 24, 25, NR, NR, NR, NR)
T25) Whitworth 22 (9, 22, NR, NR, NR, NR, NR, NR, NR)
------------------------

27) Chicago 19 (21, 22, 22, 23, 24, 25)
28) Whitman 15 (11)
29) Rowan 14 (18, 23, 24, 25)
30) Scranton 9 (22, 23, 24)
31) Amherst 8 (20, 24)
32) Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 6 (20)
T33) Bates 5 (23, 24)*
T33) Lynchburg 5 (21)
35) Rhode Island College 4 (22)
T36) MIT 2 (25, 25)
T36) Johns Hopkins 2 (24)
T38) Case Western Reserve 1 (25)
T38) Baldwin-Wallace 1 (25)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 16, 2015, 10:52:11 PM
Some mighty strange (or at least wide) spreads in the voting. :o  Dickinson had two 3s and a NR; NCC had two 4s and a NR; UWSP had a 6 and a NR; Chapman had a 3 and a NR; etc.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 16, 2015, 11:11:40 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 16, 2015, 10:52:11 PM
Some mighty strange (or at least wide) spreads in the voting. :o  Dickinson had two 3s and a NR; NCC had two 4s and a NR; UWSP had a 6 and a NR; Chapman had a 3 and a NR; etc.

Do you even have to ask who it was?  ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 18, 2015, 09:39:04 PM

I'm in.  I just decided, I'm not voting for any NESCAC teams until they decided amongst themselves who's going to be good this year.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 20, 2015, 07:16:20 AM
I have my ballot filled in but since it's not due until tomorrow I'll let it sit for a day to see if I feel like any more changes.
Can we please get some clarity? It feels like I'm throwing at a dartboard to fill most of it out.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on January 20, 2015, 04:13:26 PM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 20, 2015, 07:16:20 AM
I have my ballot filled in but since it's not due until tomorrow I'll let it sit for a day to see if I feel like any more changes.
Can we please get some clarity? It feels like I'm throwing at a dartboard to fill most of it out.

You can submit it anyways, since really you aren't supposed to change your results based on what happened Monday or Tuesday night.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 20, 2015, 04:47:08 PM
Quote from: 7express on January 20, 2015, 04:13:26 PM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 20, 2015, 07:16:20 AM
I have my ballot filled in but since it's not due until tomorrow I'll let it sit for a day to see if I feel like any more changes.
Can we please get some clarity? It feels like I'm throwing at a dartboard to fill most of it out.

You can submit it anyways, since really you aren't supposed to change your results based on what happened Monday or Tuesday night.

I'm sure FCGG is well aware of that, and did not mean he would change based on later results - just further reflection.  Essentially what I told you when I submitted my ballot, except I planned to wait 'til next week to blow it all up and start from scratch!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 21, 2015, 12:41:54 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 20, 2015, 04:47:08 PM
Quote from: 7express on January 20, 2015, 04:13:26 PM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 20, 2015, 07:16:20 AM
I have my ballot filled in but since it's not due until tomorrow I'll let it sit for a day to see if I feel like any more changes.
Can we please get some clarity? It feels like I'm throwing at a dartboard to fill most of it out.

You can submit it anyways, since really you aren't supposed to change your results based on what happened Monday or Tuesday night.

I'm sure FCGG is well aware of that, and did not mean he would change based on later results - just further reflection.  Essentially what I told you when I submitted my ballot, except I planned to wait 'til next week to blow it all up and start from scratch!
I don't look at the Monday/Tuesday stuff. Sometimes it's good to fill it out then sleep on it and take another look. Ended up only making one extra change down at 25.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on January 21, 2015, 08:03:15 PM
Last week I had 8 and now I've got 8.  If someone new wants to send one in I'll postpone the results for a bit, but otherwise this week is closed and I will tally the results.  I'll have the poll up by 10:30, but probably sooner.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on January 21, 2015, 09:40:38 PM
Posters poll 1-21-15 (week 2):

1) Augustana 221 (1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 1, 2, 3)
2) St. Thomas 212 (1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4)
3) UW-Whitewater 205 (2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5)
4) Marietta 198 (1, 2, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6)
5) Wooster 167 (5, 6, 7, 7, 7, 8, 9, 9, 9)
6) Wash U (3, 3, 3, 4, 5, 5, 5, 17, NR)
7) Virginia Wesleyan 148 (5, 6, 6, 6, 9, 10, 11, 15, 18)
8) Randolph-Macon 143 (7, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 11, 12, 16)
9) Dickinson 128 (4, 7, 8, 9, 10, 10, 14, 20, 24)
10) Stevens Point 123 (8, 8, 10, 11, 11, 12, 12, 16, 23)
11) WPI 116 (7, 7, 8, 11, 12, 14, 15, 19, 25)
12) St. Olaf 108 (6, 9, 10, 11, 13, 14, 15, 23, 25)
13) St. Norbert 105 (5, 9, 13, 13, 15, 16, 16, 17, 25)
14) Franklin & Marshall 102 (8, 13, 14, 14, 14, 15, 16, 17, 21)
15) Chapman 98 (6, 7, 10, 12, 18, 19, 21, 21, 22)
16) Emory 90 (8, 11, 11, 13, 14, 16, 19, NR, NR)
17) Richard Stockton 87 (12, 13, 14, 15, 15, 16, 17, 19, NR)
18) North Central (IL) 78 (10, 12, 13, 15, 16, 17, 23, 24, NR)
19) Albertus Magnus 77 (8, 9, 12, 13, 17, 20, NR, NR, NR)
20) Babson 57 (10, 17, 17, 18, 18, 20, 25, NR, NR)
21) Chicago 53 (15, 18, 21, 19, 20, 20, 20, 22, NR)
22) Eastern Connecticut 41 (12, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, NR, NR)
23) Whitworth 40 (6, 18, 18, 22, NR, NR, NR, NR, NR)
24) Illinois Wesleyan 37 (13, 14, 19, 22, 25, NR, NR, NR, NR)
25) Ohio Wesleyan 27 (17, 18, 22, 22, 24, NR, NR, NR, NR)
--------------
26) Johns Hopkins 18 (18, 19, 24, 25)
27) Rhode Island College 15 (19, 24, 22, 24)
28) Elmhurst 14 (20, 22, 23, 25)
29) Hardin-Simmons 13 (21, 23, 23, 24)
30) Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 10 (16)
31) William Paterson 9 (21, 23, 25)
32) MIT 8 (20, 24)
T33) Case Western 5 (21)
T33) Baldwin-Wallace 5 (21)
35) St. John Fisher 3 (23)
36) Johnson & Wales 1 (25)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 22, 2015, 12:29:02 AM
Apparently no one wants to be #1 this season.  Augie loses (at home!) to IWU, 89-84. ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on January 22, 2015, 01:36:25 AM
) Augustana 221 (1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 1, 2, 3)
2) St. Thomas 212 (1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4)
3) UW-Whitewater 205 (2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5)
4) Marietta 198 (1, 2, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6)
5) Wooster 167 (5, 6, 7, 7, 7, 8, 9, 9, 9)
6) Wash U (3, 3, 3, 4, 5, 5, 5, 17, NR)
7) Virginia Wesleyan 148 (5, 6, 6, 6, 9, 10, 11, 15, 18)
8) Randolph-Macon* 143 (7, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 11, 12, 16)
9) Dickinson 128 (4, 7, 8, 9, 10, 10, 14, 20, 24)
10) Stevens Point 123 (8, 8, 10, 11, 11, 12, 12, 16, 23)
11) WPI 116 (7, 7, 8, 11, 12, 14, 15, 19, 25)
12) St. Olaf* 108 (6, 9, 10, 11, 13, 14, 15, 23, 25)
13) St. Norbert 105 (5, 9, 13, 13, 15, 16, 16, 17, 25)
14) Franklin & Marshall* 102 (8, 13, 14, 14, 14, 15, 16, 17, 21)
15) Chapman 98 (6, 7, 10, 12, 18, 19, 21, 21, 22)
16) Emory 90 (8, 11, 11, 13, 14, 16, 19, NR, NR)
17) Richard Stockton 87 (12, 13, 14, 15, 15, 16, 17, 19, NR)
18) North Central (IL) 78 (10, 12, 13, 15, 16, 17, 23, 24, NR)
19) Albertus Magnus 77 (8, 9, 12, 13, 17, 20, NR, NR, NR)
20) Babson 57 (10, 17, 17, 18, 18, 20, 25, NR, NR)
21) Chicago* 53 (15, 18, 21, 19, 20, 20, 20, 22, NR)
22) Eastern Connecticut 41 (12, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, NR, NR)
23) Whitworth 40 (6, 18, 18, 22, NR, NR, NR, NR, NR)
24) Illinois Wesleyan 37 (13, 14, 19, 22, 25, NR, NR, NR, NR)
25) Ohio Wesleyan 27 (17, 18, 22, 22, 24, NR, NR, NR, NR)
--------------
26) Johns Hopkins 18 (18, 19, 24, 25)
27) Rhode Island College* 15 (19, 24, 22, 24)
28) Elmhurst 14 (20, 22, 23, 25)
29) Hardin-Simmons 13 (21, 23, 23, 24)
30) Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 10 (16)
31) William Paterson 9 (21, 23, 25)
32) MIT 8* (20, 24)
T33) Case Western 5 (21)
T33) Baldwin-Wallace 5 (21)
35) St. John Fisher 3 (23)
36) Johnson & Wales 1 (25)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 22, 2015, 07:09:51 AM
Posters poll 1-21-15 (week 2):

1) Augustana 221 (1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 3)*
2) St. Thomas 212 (1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4)
3) UW-Whitewater 205 (2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5)*
4) Marietta 198 (1, 2, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6)*
5) Wooster 167 (5, 6, 7, 7, 7, 8, 9, 9, 9)
6) Wash U (3, 3, 3, 4, 5, 5, 5, 17, NR)
7) Virginia Wesleyan 148 (5, 6, 6, 6, 9, 10, 11, 15, 18)
8) Randolph-Macon 143 (7, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 11, 12, 16)
9) Dickinson 128 (4, 7, 8, 9, 10, 10, 14, 20, 24)
10) Stevens Point 123 (8, 8, 10, 11, 11, 12, 12, 16, 23)
11) WPI 116 (7, 7, 8, 11, 12, 14, 15, 19, 25)
12) St. Olaf 108 (6, 9, 10, 11, 13, 14, 15, 23, 25)
13) St. Norbert 105 (5, 9, 13, 13, 15, 16, 16, 17, 25)*
14) Franklin & Marshall 102 (8, 13, 14, 14, 14, 15, 16, 17, 21)*
15) Chapman 98 (6, 7, 10, 12, 18, 19, 21, 21, 22)
16) Emory 90 (8, 11, 11, 13, 14, 16, 19, NR, NR)
17) Richard Stockton 87 (12, 13, 14, 15, 15, 16, 17, 19, NR)
18) North Central (IL) 78 (10, 12, 13, 15, 16, 17, 23, 24, NR)
19) Albertus Magnus 77 (8, 9, 12, 13, 17, 20, NR, NR, NR)
20) Babson 57 (10, 17, 17, 18, 18, 20, 25, NR, NR)
21) Chicago 53 (15, 18, 21, 19, 20, 20, 20, 22, NR)*
22) Eastern Connecticut 41 (12, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, NR, NR)
23) Whitworth 40 (6, 18, 18, 22, NR, NR, NR, NR, NR)
24) Illinois Wesleyan 37 (13, 14, 19, 22, 25, NR, NR, NR, NR)
25) Ohio Wesleyan 27 (17, 18, 22, 22, 24, NR, NR, NR, NR)
--------------
26) Johns Hopkins 18 (18, 19, 24, 25)
27) Rhode Island College 15 (19, 22, 24, 24)
28) Elmhurst 14 (20, 22, 23, 25)
29) Hardin-Simmons 13 (21, 23, 23, 24)*
30) Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 10 (16)
31) William Paterson 9 (21, 23, 25)
32) MIT 8 (20, 24)
T33) Case Western 5 (21)
T33) Baldwin-Wallace 5 (21)
35) St. John Fisher 3 (23)
36) Johnson & Wales 1 (25)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: frodotwo on January 22, 2015, 06:18:40 PM
1) Augustana 221 (1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 1, 2, 3)
2) St. Thomas 212 (1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4)
3) UW-Whitewater 205 (2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5)
4) Marietta 198 (1, 2, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6)
5) Wooster 167 (5, 6, 7, 7, 7, 8, 9, 9, 9)
6) Wash U (3, 3, 3, 4, 5, 5, 5, 17, NR)
7) Virginia Wesleyan 148 (5, 6, 6, 6, 9, 10, 11, 15, 18)
8) Randolph-Macon 143 (7, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 11, 12, 16)
9) Dickinson 128 (4, 7, 8, 9, 10, 10, 14, 20, 24)
10) Stevens Point 123 (8, 8, 10, 11, 11, 12, 12, 16, 23)
11) WPI 116 (7, 7, 8, 11, 12, 14, 15, 19, 25)
12) St. Olaf 108 (6, 9, 10, 11, 13, 14, 15, 23, 25)
13) St. Norbert 105 (5, 9, 13, 13, 15, 16, 16, 17, 25)
14) Franklin & Marshall 102 (8, 13, 14, 14, 14, 15, 16, 17, 21)
15) Chapman 98 (6, 7, 10, 12, 18, 19, 21, 21, 22)
16) Emory 90 (8, 11, 11, 13, 14, 16, 19, NR, NR)
17) Richard Stockton 87 (12, 13, 14, 15, 15, 16, 17, 19, NR)
18) North Central (IL) 78 (10, 12, 13, 15, 16, 17, 23, 24, NR)
19) Albertus Magnus 77 (8, 9, 12, 13, 17, 20, NR, NR, NR)
20) Babson 57 (10, 17, 17, 18, 18, 20, 25, NR, NR)
21) Chicago 53 (15, 18, 21, 19, 20, 20, 20, 22, NR)
22) Eastern Connecticut 41 (12, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, NR, NR)
23) Whitworth 40 (6, 18, 18, 22, NR, NR, NR, NR, NR)
24) Illinois Wesleyan 37 (13, 14, 19, 22, 25, NR, NR, NR, NR)
25) Ohio Wesleyan 27 (17, 18, 22, 22, 24, NR, NR, NR, NR)
--------------
26) Johns Hopkins 18 (18, 19, 24, 25)
27) Rhode Island College 15 (19, 24, 22, 24)
28) Elmhurst 14 (20, 22, 23, 25)
29) Hardin-Simmons 13 (21, 23, 23, 24)
30) Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 10 (16)
31) William Paterson 9 (21, 23, 25)
32) MIT 8 (20, 24)
T33) Case Western 5 (21)
T33) Baldwin-Wallace 5 (21)
35) St. John Fisher 3 (23)
36) Johnson & Wales 1 (25)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 25, 2015, 06:45:42 PM
My ballot (such as it is ::)) is in.  Not sure I would want to strongly defend ANY of it, but I'll post it this week (I've skipped a couple of weeks) anyway.  I'm fairly confident of several groupings, but the middle 8-10 could be in just about any order, and I had to shoehorn about 14 teams into the final six spots.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 28, 2015, 10:38:51 PM
When will the poll be posted? I feel I finally got it tuned up right.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on January 28, 2015, 11:35:52 PM
Sometime tomorrow or Friday I was really busy today totally forgot about it.  If I go to the Eastern/Western game tomorrow night Friday, if I don't I'll have it up tomorrow night.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on January 30, 2015, 07:40:51 PM
Poster's Poll 1-28-15 (week 3).  We have multiple ties and also have a 3 way tie this week which is always fun! 

1) St. Thomas 221 (1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2)
2) Whitewater 216 (1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3)
3) Marietta 205 (1, 1, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5)
4) Augustana 197 (3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 4, 6, 6)
5) Wooster 177 (4, 5, 6, 6, 6, 7, 7, 7, 9)
6) Randolph-Macon 162 (5, 5, 5, 6, 9, 10, 10, 10, 12)
7) Dickinson 155 (4, 5, 7, 7, 7, 9, 12, 13, 15)
8) Wash U 138 (5, 6, 8, 8, 8, 9, 10, 16, NR)
9) Virginia Wesleyan 132 (8, 9, 10, 11, 11, 11, 12, 14, 16)
10) WPI 125 (4, 6, 8, 10, 11, 13, 14, 19, 24)
T11) Richie Stockton 123 (8, 10, 12, 12, 13, 13, 14, 14, 15)
T11) St. Norbert 123 (3, 8, 8, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 22)
T11) Chapman 123 (5, 6, 7, 10, 15, 15, 17, 18, 18)
14) Emory 115 (7, 9, 11, 11, 11, 12, 16, 20, 22)
15) Stevens Point 89 (11, 12, 13, 14, 16, 17, 19, 20, 23)
T16) Albertus Magnus 84 (9, 9, 12, 13, 15, 18, 22, NR, NR)
T16) Babson 84 (9, 13, 13, 16, 16, 16, 19, 22, NR)
T18) Eastern Connecticut 66 (7, 17, 18, 18, 18, 19, 22, 23, NR)
T18) Elmhurst 66 (10, 15, 17, 19, 19, 20, 20, 23, 25)
20) Whitworth 52 (8, 15, 17, 19, 22, 23, NR, NR, NR)
21) Franklin & Marshall 51 (11, 17, 18, 20, 21, 22, 23, 25, NR)
22) St. Olaf 37 (14, 16, 19, 21, 23, NR, NR, NR, NR)
23) Johns Hopkins 34 (14, 20, 22, 22, 23, 23, 24, NR, NR)
24) Illinois Wesleyan 33 (14, 15, 18, 24, NR, NR, NR, NR, NR)
25) Hardin-Simmons 28 (17, 20, 21, 24, 24, 24, 25, 25, NR)
-------------------------------------
26) William Paterson 22 (20, 21, 21, 21, 25)
27) Case Western 14 (17, 21)
28) North Central 13 (19, 23, 24, 25)
29) St. John Fisher 9 (17)
30) Baldwin-Wallace 8 (18)
31) Whitman 6 (20)
T32) Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 5 (21)
T32) Ohio Wesleyan 5 (21)
34) NYU 4 (24, 25, 25)
35) MIT 2 (24)
36) Rhodes 1 (25)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on January 30, 2015, 07:45:58 PM
1) St. Thomas 221 (1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2)
2) Whitewater 216 (1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3)
3) Marietta 205 (1, 1, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5)
4) Augustana 197 (3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 4, 6, 6)
5) Wooster 177 (4, 5, 6, 6, 6, 7, 7, 7, 9)
6) Randolph-Macon* 162 (5, 5, 5, 6, 9, 10, 10, 10, 12)
7) Dickinson 155 (4, 5, 7, 7, 7, 9, 12, 13, 15)
8) Wash U 138 (5, 6, 8, 8, 8, 9, 10, 16, NR)
9) Virginia Wesleyan 132 (8, 9, 10, 11, 11, 11, 12, 14, 16)
10) WPI 125 (4, 6, 8, 10, 11, 13, 14, 19, 24)
T11) Richie Stockton 123 (8, 10, 12, 12, 13, 13, 14, 14, 15)
T11) St. Norbert 123 (3, 8, 8, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 22)
T11) Chapman 123 (5, 6, 7, 10, 15, 15, 17, 18, 18)
14) Emory 115 (7, 9, 11, 11, 11, 12, 16, 20, 22)
15) Stevens Point 89 (11, 12, 13, 14, 16, 17, 19, 20, 23)
T16) Albertus Magnus 84 (9, 9, 12, 13, 15, 18, 22, NR, NR)
T16) Babson 84 (9, 13, 13, 16, 16, 16, 19, 22, NR)
T18) Eastern Connecticut 66 (7, 17, 18, 18, 18, 19, 22, 23, NR)
T18) Elmhurst 66 (10, 15, 17, 19, 19, 20, 20, 23, 25)
20) Whitworth 52 (8, 15, 17, 19, 22, 23, NR, NR, NR)
21) Franklin & Marshall 51 (11, 17, 18, 20, 21, 22, 23, 25, NR)
22) St. Olaf 37 (14, 16, 19, 21, 23, NR, NR, NR, NR)
23) Johns Hopkins 34 (14, 20, 22, 22, 23, 23, 24, NR, NR)
24) Illinois Wesleyan 33 (14, 15, 18, 24, NR, NR, NR, NR, NR)
25) Hardin-Simmons* 28 (17, 20, 21, 24, 24, 24, 25, 25, NR)
-------------------------------------
26) William Paterson 22 (20, 21, 21, 21, 25)
27) Case Western 14 (17, 21)
28) North Central 13 (19, 23, 24, 25)
29) St. John Fisher 9 (17)
30) Baldwin-Wallace 8 (18)
31) Whitman 6 (20)
T32) Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 5 (21)
T32) Ohio Wesleyan 5 (21)
34) NYU 4 (24, 25, 25)
35) MIT* 2 (24)
36) Rhodes 1 (25)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 30, 2015, 08:10:04 PM
Poster's Poll 1-28-15 (week 3).  We have multiple ties and also have a 3 way tie this week which is always fun! 

1) St. Thomas 221 (1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2)
2) Whitewater 216 (1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3)
3) Marietta 205 (1, 1, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5)
4) Augustana 197 (3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 4, 6, 6)
5) Wooster 177 (4, 5, 6, 6, 6, 7, 7, 7, 9)
6) Randolph-Macon 162 (5, 5, 5, 6, 9, 10, 10, 10, 12)
7) Dickinson 155 (4, 5, 7, 7, 7, 9, 12, 13, 15)
8) Wash U 138 (5, 6, 8, 8, 8, 9, 10, 16, NR)
9) Virginia Wesleyan 132 (8, 9, 10, 11, 11, 11, 12, 14, 16)
10) WPI 125 (4, 6, 8, 10, 11, 13, 14, 19, 24)
T11) Richie Stockton 123 (8, 10, 12, 12, 13, 13, 14, 14, 15)
T11) St. Norbert 123 (3, 8, 8, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 22)
T11) Chapman 123 (5, 6, 7, 10, 15, 15, 17, 18, 18)
14) Emory 115 (7, 9, 11, 11, 11, 12, 16, 20, 22)
15) Stevens Point 89 (11, 12, 13, 14, 16, 17, 19, 20, 23)
T16) Albertus Magnus 84 (9, 9, 12, 13, 15, 18, 22, NR, NR)
T16) Babson 84 (9, 13, 13, 16, 16, 16, 19, 22, NR)
T18) Eastern Connecticut 66 (7, 17, 18, 18, 18, 19, 22, 23, NR)
T18) Elmhurst 66 (10, 15, 17, 19, 19, 20, 20, 23, 25)
20) Whitworth 52 (8, 15, 17, 19, 22, 23, NR, NR, NR)
21) Franklin & Marshall 51 (11, 17, 18, 20, 21, 22, 23, 25, NR)
22) St. Olaf 37 (14, 16, 19, 21, 23, NR, NR, NR, NR)
23) Johns Hopkins 34 (14, 20, 22, 22, 23, 23, 24, NR, NR)
24) Illinois Wesleyan 33 (14, 15, 18, 24, NR, NR, NR, NR, NR)
25) Hardin-Simmons 28 (17, 20, 21, 24, 24, 24, 25, 25, NR)
-------------------------------------
26) William Paterson 22 (20, 21, 21, 21, 25)
27) Case Western 14 (17, 21)
28) North Central 13 (19, 23, 24, 25)
29) St. John Fisher 9 (17)
30) Baldwin-Wallace 8 (18)
31) Whitman 6 (20)
T32) Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 5 (21)
T32) Ohio Wesleyan 5 (21)
34) NYU 4 (24, 25, 25)
35) MIT 2 (24)
36) Rhodes 1 (25)

Most of my picks were more middle-of-the-road than I had expected.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 30, 2015, 08:11:14 PM
Poster's Poll 1-28-15 (week 3).  We have multiple ties and also have a 3 way tie this week which is always fun! 

1) St. Thomas 221 (1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2)
2) Whitewater 216 (1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3)
3) Marietta 205 (1, 1, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5)
4) Augustana 197 (3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 4, 6, 6)
5) Wooster 177 (4, 5, 6, 6, 6, 7, 7, 7, 9)
6) Randolph-Macon 162 (5, 5, 5, 6, 9, 10, 10, 10, 12)
7) Dickinson 155 (4, 5, 7, 7, 7, 9, 12, 13, 15)*
8) Wash U 138 (5, 6, 8, 8, 8, 9, 10, 16, NR)
9) Virginia Wesleyan 132 (8, 9, 10, 11, 11, 11, 12, 14, 16)*
10) WPI 125 (4, 6, 8, 10, 11, 13, 14, 19, 24)
T11) Richie Stockton 123 (8, 10, 12, 12, 13, 13, 14, 14, 15)*
T11) St. Norbert 123 (3, 8, 8, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 22)*
T11) Chapman 123 (5, 6, 7, 10, 15, 15, 17, 18, 18)
14) Emory 115 (7, 9, 11, 11, 11, 12, 16, 20, 22)
15) Stevens Point 89 (11, 12, 13, 14, 16, 17, 19, 20, 23)
T16) Albertus Magnus 84 (9, 9, 12, 13, 15, 18, 22, NR, NR)
T16) Babson 84 (9, 13, 13, 16, 16, 16, 19, 22, NR)
T18) Eastern Connecticut 66 (7, 17, 18, 18, 18, 19, 22, 23, NR)
T18) Elmhurst 66 (10, 15, 17, 19, 19, 20, 20, 23, 25)
20) Whitworth 52 (8, 15, 17, 19, 22, 23, NR, NR, NR)
21) Franklin & Marshall 51 (11, 17, 18, 20, 21, 22, 23, 25, NR)*
22) St. Olaf 37 (14, 16, 19, 21, 23, NR, NR, NR, NR)
23) Johns Hopkins 34 (14, 20, 22, 22, 23, 23, 24, NR, NR)*
24) Illinois Wesleyan 33 (14, 15, 18, 24, NR, NR, NR, NR, NR)
25) Hardin-Simmons 28 (17, 20, 21, 24, 24, 24, 25, 25, NR)*
-------------------------------------
26) William Paterson 22 (20, 21, 21, 21, 25)
27) Case Western 14 (17, 21)
28) North Central 13 (19, 23, 24, 25)
29) St. John Fisher 9 (17)
30) Baldwin-Wallace 8 (18)
31) Whitman 6 (20)
T32) Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 5 (21)
T32) Ohio Wesleyan 5 (21)
34) NYU 4 (24, 25, 25)
35) MIT 2 (24)
36) Rhodes 1 (25)*
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 04, 2015, 07:05:07 PM
As of 7 PM Wednesday I'm still missing polls from 2 posters.  Unless you specifically tell me you are going to be late with yours, I will start calculating the results in 55 minutes.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 04, 2015, 10:03:55 PM
Posters Poll 2-4-15 (week 4):

1) St. Thomas 171 (1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2)
2) Whitewater 168 (1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3)
3) Marietta 164 (1, 1, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4)
4) Dickinson 146 (3, 4, 4, 4, 5, 7, 9)
5) Randolph-Macon 145 (4, 4, 4, 5, 6, 7, 7)
6) Augustana 135 (5, 5, 7, 7, 7, 8, 8)
7) Virginia Wesleyan 125 (6, 7, 8, 8, 9, 9, 10)
8) Babson 114 (6, 6, 10, 10, 10, 12, 14)
9) St. Norbert 113 (5, 6, 9, 9, 9, 13, 18)
10) Albertus Magnus 93 (5, 6, 6, 10, 16, 20, NR)
11) Washington University 92 (10, 10, 11, 12, 12, 15, 20)
12) Mr. Richard Stockton 87 (11, 11, 11, 14, 14, 14, 20)
13) Stevens Point 86 (9, 13, 13, 13, 15, 16, 17)
14) WPI 77 (8, 11, 12, 13, 17, 18, NR)
15) Franklin & Marshall 76 (5, 11, 14, 18, 18, 19, 21)
16) Emory 72 (11, 14, 15, 15, 16, 17, 22)
17) Johns Hopkins 68 (8, 16, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20)
18) Wooster 62 (8, 17, 19, 21, 23, 15, 17)
19) Elmhurst 54 (12, 13, 15, 20, 21, 22, 25)
20) Whitworth 50 (12, 15, 18, 20, 21, 22, 24)
21) St. Olaf 49 (12, 13, 18, 19, 21, 24, NR)
22) Illinois Wesleyan 32 (14, 17, 21, 23, 23, NR, NR)
23) Ohio Wesleyan 22 (19, 19, 22, 23, 25, NR, NR)
24) Case Western Reserve 19 (16, 19, 24, NR, NR, NR, NR)
25) Chapman 14 (16, 24, 24, NR, NR, NR, NR)
----------------
26) Hardin-Simmons 9 (20, 23)
27) Sir William Paterson 8 (22, 23, 25)
28) Eastern Connecticut 6 (22, 24)
T29) Catholic 5 (23, 24)
T29) MIT 5 (21)
T31) Chicago 3 (25, 25, 25)
T31) St. John Fisher 3 (23)
33) Hope 1 (25)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 04, 2015, 10:11:37 PM
Posters Poll 2-4-15 (week 4):

1) St. Thomas 171 (1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2)
2) Whitewater 168 (1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3)
3) Marietta 164 (1, 1, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4)
4) Dickinson 146 (3, 4, 4, 4, 5, 7, 9)
5) Randolph-Macon 145 (4, 4, 4, 5, 6, 7, 7)
6) Augustana 135 (5, 5, 7, 7, 7, 8, 8)
7) Virginia Wesleyan 125 (6, 7, 8, 8, 9, 9, 10)
8) Babson 114 (6, 6, 10, 10, 10, 12, 14)*
9) St. Norbert 113 (5, 6, 9, 9, 9, 13, 18)
10) Albertus Magnus 93 (5, 6, 6, 10, 16, 20, NR)
11) Washington University 92 (10, 10, 11, 12, 12, 15, 20)
12) Mr. Richard Stockton 87 (11, 11, 11, 14, 14, 14, 20)
13) Stevens Point 86 (9, 13, 13, 13, 15, 16, 17)
14) WPI 77 (8, 11, 12, 13, 17, 18, NR)
15) Franklin & Marshall 76 (5, 11, 14, 18, 18, 19, 21)
16) Emory 72 (11, 14, 15, 15, 16, 17, 22)
17) Johns Hopkins 68 (8, 16, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20)*
18) Wooster 62 (8, 17, 19, 21, 23, 15, 17)*
19) Elmhurst 54 (12, 13, 15, 20, 21, 22, 25)*
20) Whitworth 50 (12, 15, 18, 20, 21, 22, 24)
21) St. Olaf 49 (12, 13, 18, 19, 21, 24, NR)*
22) Illinois Wesleyan 32 (14, 17, 21, 23, 23, NR, NR)
23) Ohio Wesleyan 22 (19, 19, 22, 23, 25, NR, NR)
24) Case Western Reserve 19 (16, 19, 24, NR, NR, NR, NR)
25) Chapman 14 (16, 24, 24, NR, NR, NR, NR)
----------------
26) Hardin-Simmons 9 (20, 23)
27) Sir William Paterson 8 (22, 23, 25)
28) Eastern Connecticut 6 (22, 24)
T29) Catholic 5 (23, 24)
T29) MIT 5 (21)*
T31) Chicago 3 (25, 25, 25)
T31) St. John Fisher 3 (23)
33) Hope 1 (25)

So I wonder if I had sent in this bracket to Mr. Ypsi, if he would've declined it??  Are you allowed to decline yourself??
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 04, 2015, 11:15:31 PM
Quote from: 7express on February 04, 2015, 10:11:37 PM
So I wonder if I had sent in this bracket to Mr. Ypsi, if he would've declined it??  Are you allowed to decline yourself??
Nothing there too egregious. The only one that was radically different from the group was Wooster.


1) St. Thomas 171 (1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2)
2) Whitewater 168 (1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3)
3) Marietta 164 (1, 1, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4)
4) Dickinson 146 (3, 4, 4, 4, 5, 7, 9)*
5) Randolph-Macon 145 (4, 4, 4, 5, 6, 7, 7)
6) Augustana 135 (5, 5, 7, 7, 7, 8, 8)
7) Virginia Wesleyan 125 (6, 7, 8, 8, 9, 9, 10)*
8) Babson 114 (6, 6, 10, 10, 10, 12, 14)
9) St. Norbert 113 (5, 6, 9, 9, 9, 13, 18)*
10) Albertus Magnus 93 (5, 6, 6, 10, 16, 20, NR)*
11) Washington University 92 (10, 10, 11, 12, 12, 15, 20)
12) Mr. Richard Stockton 87 (11, 11, 11, 14, 14, 14, 20)
13) Stevens Point 86 (9, 13, 13, 13, 15, 16, 17)
14) WPI 77 (8, 11, 12, 13, 17, 18, NR)
15) Franklin & Marshall 76 (5, 11, 14, 18, 18, 19, 21)*
16) Emory 72 (11, 14, 15, 15, 16, 17, 22)
17) Johns Hopkins 68 (8, 16, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20)*
18) Wooster 62 (8, 15, 17, 17, 19, 21, 23)
19) Elmhurst 54 (12, 13, 15, 20, 21, 22, 25)
20) Whitworth 50 (12, 15, 18, 20, 21, 22, 24)
21) St. Olaf 49 (12, 13, 18, 19, 21, 24, NR)
22) Illinois Wesleyan 32 (14, 17, 21, 23, 23, NR, NR)
23) Ohio Wesleyan 22 (19, 19, 22, 23, 25, NR, NR)
24) Case Western Reserve 19 (16, 19, 24, NR, NR, NR, NR)
25) Chapman 14 (16, 24, 24, NR, NR, NR, NR)*
----------------
26) Hardin-Simmons 9 (20, 23)
27) Sir William Paterson 8 (22, 23, 25)
28) Eastern Connecticut 6 (22, 24)*
T29) Catholic 5 (23, 24)
T29) MIT 5 (21)
T31) Chicago 3 (25, 25, 25)
T31) St. John Fisher 3 (23)
33) Hope 1 (25)

Can someone explain to me why everyone is so high on Albertus Magnus (not just here but the d3h poll as well)? Who have they beaten? Seems like every year they get by with an easy non-conference schedule, rise up through the rankings as they keep beating weak teams while others lose, then fall on their face in the tournament. If it was a one time scheduling thing I could understand, but it seems like it's every year with them. Until they actually beat someone they won't be making my top 25.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 04, 2015, 11:23:46 PM
Can someone explain to me why everyone is so high on Albertus Magnus (not just here but the d3h poll as well)? Who have they beaten? Seems like every year they get by with an easy non-conference schedule, rise up through the rankings as they keep beating weak teams while others lose, then fall on their face in the tournament. If it was a one time scheduling thing I could understand, but it seems like it's every year with them. Until they actually beat someone they won't be making my top 25.
------------------------------

Them and Norbs have the same problem.  Good records but they played no one, and their conferences suck, but they keep winning while everyone else around them keeps losing, so what really can you do??
I don't think St. Norbert is the 13th best team in the country yet alone top 5, but while everyone around them loses you don't have much choice.  Even in a power conference like the CCIW you can't have a 1 loss Norbs 15 while having a 5 loss IWU 13, a 4 loss Augie 5 and a 4 loss Elmhurst 12.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: D3HoopJunkie on February 04, 2015, 11:54:06 PM
Last time I checked going to the Sweet 16 in the NCAA tournament isnt exactly falling on their face. Not to mention getting there by having to beat the same nationally ranked team twice for the season and on their home court in the tourney. And then losing in the Sweet 16 to the eventual national runner up. Can someone explain to me how thats falling on their face?

And for this season they bring back 4 out of the 5 starters from that Sweet 16 team not to mention a D1 point guard who started in the D1 NCAA tournament against Ohio State.

I think those voters know exactly what kind of team and talent Albertus Magnus has. 
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 04, 2015, 11:54:51 PM
Quote from: 7express on February 04, 2015, 11:23:46 PM
Can someone explain to me why everyone is so high on Albertus Magnus (not just here but the d3h poll as well)? Who have they beaten? Seems like every year they get by with an easy non-conference schedule, rise up through the rankings as they keep beating weak teams while others lose, then fall on their face in the tournament. If it was a one time scheduling thing I could understand, but it seems like it's every year with them. Until they actually beat someone they won't be making my top 25.
------------------------------

Them and Norbs have the same problem.  Good records but they played no one, and their conferences suck, but they keep winning while everyone else around them keeps losing, so what really can you do??
I don't think St. Norbert is the 13th best team in the country yet alone top 5, but while everyone around them loses you don't have much choice.  Even in a power conference like the CCIW you can't have a 1 loss Norbs 15 while having a 5 loss IWU 13, a 4 loss Augie 5 and a 4 loss Elmhurst 12.


I've seen Albertus play.  They've got more talent on that team than just about anyone in the country.  They've got a guard who started in the D1 tournament and a center who's got a combination of size and athletic skills rarely seen in d3.  The only reason I don't have them higher is that I'm terrified every night out someone will be a head case and derail the whole team.

Last year's Albertus team gave Williams a pretty good run for their money.  This year's team is better, perhaps quite a bit so.  I don't trust their coach and the style they run.  There's a high likelihood they'll be inconsistent and undisciplined.  At the same time, they could beat any team in the country on the right night, even if that other team played its best game.

I said pretty much this same thing in the GNAC room.  This Albertus team could give you a 40 or a 100 on any given night.  I'd just rather vote for teams that give 80-90 with consistency.

This year, the problem is our other top teams are more like in the 65-75 range, which is dicey.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2015, 12:03:11 AM
Quote from: 7express on February 04, 2015, 11:23:46 PM
Can someone explain to me why everyone is so high on Albertus Magnus (not just here but the d3h poll as well)? Who have they beaten? Seems like every year they get by with an easy non-conference schedule, rise up through the rankings as they keep beating weak teams while others lose, then fall on their face in the tournament. If it was a one time scheduling thing I could understand, but it seems like it's every year with them. Until they actually beat someone they won't be making my top 25.
------------------------------

Them and Norbs have the same problem.  Good records but they played no one, and their conferences suck, but they keep winning while everyone else around them keeps losing, so what really can you do??
I don't think St. Norbert is the 13th best team in the country yet alone top 5, but while everyone around them loses you don't have much choice.  Even in a power conference like the CCIW you can't have a 1 loss Norbs 15 while having a 5 loss IWU 13, a 4 loss Augie 5 and a 4 loss Elmhurst 12.

In defense of these teams:  Albertus made the Sweet Sixteen last year - not exactly falling on their face (and some who have seen them swear they are better this year).  St. Norbert is 2-0 against the WIAC this season (granted, Oshkosh and Eau Claire are NOT UWW and UWSP, but still), both on the road.  But to add - who had Chapman played?  They drifted up because they were the next to last undefeated team, but their only significant win is a semi-neutral (in California) win over Whitman, then they lost back-to-back games against Cal Lu (no disgrace; IWU lost at Cal Lu too ;)) and Pomona-Pitzer (THAT one is a BAD loss).

There are always teams that drift up because they are not really tested until the postseason, but who is to say they are NOT good, just because they are in a lousy conference?  We just can't really know.  But to totally dismiss 18-1 seems a bit overboard the other way.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 05, 2015, 12:16:22 AM
Quote from: D3HoopJunkie on February 04, 2015, 11:54:06 PM
Last time I checked going to the Sweet 16 in the NCAA tournament isnt exactly falling on their face. Not to mention getting there by having to beat the same nationally ranked team twice for the season and on their home court in the tourney. And then losing in the Sweet 16 to the eventual national runner up. Can someone explain to me how thats falling on their face?
When you read the schedule as giving up 110 points and losing by 18 in the first round rather than Sweet 16 is how. :-[ Add in the previous years and it didn't paint a pretty picture.

Still, they've only played one decent team this year (Richard Stockton) and they lost. Right now all I can point to is that I'd rank them higher than Johnson & Wales or a middle of the pack LEC team (W Conn).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 05, 2015, 12:35:17 PM
St. Norbert is 5th in Massey. So it's in the eye of the beholder. They're basically mauling everyone in their conference, as they should.

Albertus Magnus is 35th...
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2015, 12:36:01 PM
FCGG, your refusal to rank Albertus at all seems inconsistent with your ranking Chapman far higher than anyone else - care to explain the difference?  It's true that Chapman does have one win better than any by Albertus, but they also have a very bad loss, unlike Albertus.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 05, 2015, 12:38:06 PM
Chapman is 20th. It's not always the bad losses...sweeping CMS and beating Whittier that just beat Whitworth helps a ton.

It also may be overstated since Massey counts their UC Irvine game. Since UC Irvine counted it. Yeah...I hate that NCAA rule.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2015, 12:49:55 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 05, 2015, 12:38:06 PM
Chapman is 20th. It's not always the bad losses...sweeping CMS and beating Whittier Whitman that just beat slaughtered Whitworth helps a ton.

It also may be overstated since Massey counts their UC Irvine game. Since UC Irvine counted it. Yeah...I hate that NCAA rule.

Beating Whitman was their one really impressive win; Whittier, not so much! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: lildave678 on February 05, 2015, 12:57:55 PM
The 2 years ago Albertus team is completely different than this years. While Vic L, Davis, Sledge, and Walker are all "seniors" none of them were on that team. That team had a sophmore Larsen just beginning to make an impact and freshman in Jennings playing significant minutes.

Last year they make the Sweet 16 with a true road win in the round of 32. So at the very least, just based on that they should theoretically finish in the 16th-ish range in the polls. They lose their best scorer, but as Hoops Fan said, in comes a transfer who started in the D1 tournament and the other 4 starters return. I'd say that's an upgrade. If you don't want to rank them in the top 10, or have a "ceiling" like Dave because of their schedule that's fine but unranked? Seems like you're basing it SOLELY on the schedule and a team from 2 years ago that looks nothing like this one.

3 out of the 4 times they've been in the NCAA tournament (which is out of the last 5 seasons) they've won a game in the tournament. You say they've "fallen on the their face" but I'd gladly eat my words if there are 25 teams (25 teams that get ranked) that have won a game in the tournament 3 times out of the last 5 seasons. Maybe on lunch I'll try to take a crack at it lol


Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 05, 2015, 12:58:23 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2015, 12:36:01 PM
FCGG, your refusal to rank Albertus at all seems inconsistent with your ranking Chapman far higher than anyone else - care to explain the difference?  It's true that Chapman does have one win better than any by Albertus, but they also have a very bad loss, unlike Albertus.
Unlike Albertus, Chapman actually beat their best opponent (Whitman), and I'd take CMS over J&W in conference as well. It's not all about losses (sure if Chapman had 4 or 5 losses then Albertus's weak schedule wouldn't keep them behind)... it's also who you've beaten.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: lildave678 on February 05, 2015, 01:22:41 PM
Actually didn't take as long as I thought! There are 18 teams who have won at least a game 3 times in the Big Dance during the last 5 seasons, AMC being one of them. Full List -

Albertus
Amherst
Carbrini
Franklin & Marshall
Illinois Wesleyan
Middlebury
Randolph Macon
RIC
St. Mary's MD
St. Thomas
Stevens Point
UW White
Virginia Wesleyan
Wash U
Wheaton
Whitworth
Williams
Wooster

May have made a mistake or 2 in the 15 minutes  :D There were also 21 other teams with 2 wins in the same time frame.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 05, 2015, 01:43:07 PM
Quote from: lildave678 on February 05, 2015, 01:22:41 PM
Actually didn't take as long as I thought! There are 18 teams who have won at least a game 3 times in the Big Dance during the last 5 seasons, AMC being one of them. Full List -

Albertus
Amherst
Carbrini
Franklin & Marshall
Illinois Wesleyan
Middlebury
Randolph Macon
RIC
St. Mary's MD
St. Thomas
Stevens Point
UW White
Virginia Wesleyan
Wash U
Wheaton
Whitworth
Williams
Wooster

May have made a mistake or 2 in the 15 minutes  :D There were also 21 other teams with 2 wins in the same time frame.


You should have asked specifically.  I keep a spreadsheet with the teams that have won at least one game in the tournament all the way back to the beginning of d3.  Wouldn't have taken me long at all to look up.

You did get all the teams right.  For what it's worth, Wooster and Whitworth are tied for the longest active streak: six straight years with an NCAA tournament win.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: lildave678 on February 05, 2015, 01:55:38 PM
Good to know!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 05, 2015, 02:09:55 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2015, 12:49:55 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 05, 2015, 12:38:06 PM
Chapman is 20th. It's not always the bad losses...sweeping CMS and beating Whittier Whitman that just beat slaughtered Whitworth helps a ton.

It also may be overstated since Massey counts their UC Irvine game. Since UC Irvine counted it. Yeah...I hate that NCAA rule.

Beating Whitman was their one really impressive win; Whittier, not so much! ;D

Sorry for the confusion. Whit, whit, whit...
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2015, 02:17:23 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 05, 2015, 02:09:55 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2015, 12:49:55 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 05, 2015, 12:38:06 PM
Chapman is 20th. It's not always the bad losses...sweeping CMS and beating Whittier Whitman that just beat slaughtered Whitworth helps a ton.

It also may be overstated since Massey counts their UC Irvine game. Since UC Irvine counted it. Yeah...I hate that NCAA rule.

Beating Whitman was their one really impressive win; Whittier, not so much! ;D

Sorry for the confusion. Whit, whit, whit...

Yeah, some people pick nits; me, I'm a whit-picker! ;D

(Also, I sense you value CMS more highly than I do.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 05, 2015, 02:52:07 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2015, 02:17:23 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 05, 2015, 02:09:55 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2015, 12:49:55 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 05, 2015, 12:38:06 PM
Chapman is 20th. It's not always the bad losses...sweeping CMS and beating Whittier Whitman that just beat slaughtered Whitworth helps a ton.

It also may be overstated since Massey counts their UC Irvine game. Since UC Irvine counted it. Yeah...I hate that NCAA rule.

Beating Whitman was their one really impressive win; Whittier, not so much! ;D

Sorry for the confusion. Whit, whit, whit...

Yeah, some people pick nits; me, I'm a whit-picker! ;D

(Also, I sense you value CMS more highly than I do.)

43rd in Massey. Ain't hay...
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 05, 2015, 06:11:41 PM
Just calculated Magicman's poll that he sent to me this morning and here are the changes in the current poll:

#'s 1 to #3 remain unchanged.
Randolph-Macon and Dickinson are now tied for 4th
Wash U jumped Albertus in the updated poll so now Wash U is #10 and AMC is #11
Stevens Point jumped Richard Stockton so now SP is #12 and Richie Stockton falls to #13
Emory jumped both WPI and Franklin & Marshall, but WPI held off F&M so that leaves Emory #14, WPI #15 and F&M #16.
St. Olaf jumped both Whitworth & Elmhurst and Whitworth jumped Elmhurst, so that leaves St. Olaf #19, Whitworth #20 and Elmhurst #21
Chapman bumped Case, so now Chapman is #24 and Case Western occupies the last spot at #25.

Outside of the top 25:
Eastern jumped Sir William Patterson, so the Warriors are now #27 while the Pioneers fall to #28
North Central is now tied for #33 with Hope.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: GnacBballFan on February 05, 2015, 11:54:47 PM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 04, 2015, 11:15:31 PM
Quote from: 7express on February 04, 2015, 10:11:37 PM
So I wonder if I had sent in this bracket to Mr. Ypsi, if he would've declined it??  Are you allowed to decline yourself??
Nothing there too egregious. The only one that was radically different from the group was Wooster.


1) St. Thomas 171 (1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2)
2) Whitewater 168 (1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3)
3) Marietta 164 (1, 1, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4)
4) Dickinson 146 (3, 4, 4, 4, 5, 7, 9)*
5) Randolph-Macon 145 (4, 4, 4, 5, 6, 7, 7)
6) Augustana 135 (5, 5, 7, 7, 7, 8, 8)
7) Virginia Wesleyan 125 (6, 7, 8, 8, 9, 9, 10)*
8) Babson 114 (6, 6, 10, 10, 10, 12, 14)
9) St. Norbert 113 (5, 6, 9, 9, 9, 13, 18)*
10) Albertus Magnus 93 (5, 6, 6, 10, 16, 20, NR)*
11) Washington University 92 (10, 10, 11, 12, 12, 15, 20)
12) Mr. Richard Stockton 87 (11, 11, 11, 14, 14, 14, 20)
13) Stevens Point 86 (9, 13, 13, 13, 15, 16, 17)
14) WPI 77 (8, 11, 12, 13, 17, 18, NR)
15) Franklin & Marshall 76 (5, 11, 14, 18, 18, 19, 21)*
16) Emory 72 (11, 14, 15, 15, 16, 17, 22)
17) Johns Hopkins 68 (8, 16, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20)*
18) Wooster 62 (8, 15, 17, 17, 19, 21, 23)
19) Elmhurst 54 (12, 13, 15, 20, 21, 22, 25)
20) Whitworth 50 (12, 15, 18, 20, 21, 22, 24)
21) St. Olaf 49 (12, 13, 18, 19, 21, 24, NR)
22) Illinois Wesleyan 32 (14, 17, 21, 23, 23, NR, NR)
23) Ohio Wesleyan 22 (19, 19, 22, 23, 25, NR, NR)
24) Case Western Reserve 19 (16, 19, 24, NR, NR, NR, NR)
25) Chapman 14 (16, 24, 24, NR, NR, NR, NR)*
----------------
26) Hardin-Simmons 9 (20, 23)
27) Sir William Paterson 8 (22, 23, 25)
28) Eastern Connecticut 6 (22, 24)*
T29) Catholic 5 (23, 24)
T29) MIT 5 (21)
T31) Chicago 3 (25, 25, 25)
T31) St. John Fisher 3 (23)
33) Hope 1 (25)

Can someone explain to me why everyone is so high on Albertus Magnus (not just here but the d3h poll as well)? Who have they beaten? Seems like every year they get by with an easy non-conference schedule, rise up through the rankings as they keep beating weak teams while others lose, then fall on their face in the tournament. If it was a one time scheduling thing I could understand, but it seems like it's every year with them. Until they actually beat someone they won't be making my top 25.



They got to the sweet sixteen last yr, that falling flat on their face? lol weird perspective to me
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: GnacBballFan on February 06, 2015, 12:02:10 AM
FC Grizz, you feel to say how they have fallen flat on their faces in the tourney. please do tell how thats the case. You asked why everyone is so high on them, now you got your answer. Its a rather simple one at that. return 4 starters from a sweet 16 team, bring in a legit d1 transfer, and there you have it. I think if their starting PG didn't miss the majority of the second half against stockton, they'd be undefeated right now.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: GnacBballFan on February 06, 2015, 12:06:30 AM
*missed the whole second half. played all of 10 mins. left with an injury. if thats a weakness that can derail albertus, their depth. their bench is strong, but no where near the talent of the starting 5. interesting to see how they play saturday, down two starting guards
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 06, 2015, 06:22:53 AM
Quote from: GnacBballFan on February 06, 2015, 12:06:30 AM
*missed the whole second half. played all of 10 mins. left with an injury. if thats a weakness that can derail albertus, their depth. their bench is strong, but no where near the talent of the starting 5. interesting to see how they play saturday, down two starting guards

Are you talking about Davis?  He did nothing but hurt the team in that game.  He came out because he was playing so poorly and a couple bad calls got in his head.  They might have won if he'd played less in that one.  Also, Sledge was actually the starting PG - Davis definitely the 2 - not sure if it changed since then, but it was certainly true then.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ferraro13 on February 06, 2015, 03:43:01 PM
Hoops, he played awful those 10 mins, but from what I was told he never came back be used he was poked in the eye pretty badly. Oliver is known to pull players if they are playing bad, very quickly. However, I have never seen a star player, Davis in this case, get pulled all of 10 mins and not return bc of the game they were having. That was early on in the year, while sledge occasionally runs the 1, Davis is their starting pg
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 06, 2015, 03:47:13 PM
Quote from: Ferraro13 on February 06, 2015, 03:43:01 PM
Hoops, he played awful those 10 mins, but from what I was told he never came back be used he was poked in the eye pretty badly. Oliver is known to pull players if they are playing bad, very quickly. However, I have never seen a star player, Davis in this case, get pulled all of 10 mins and not return bc of the game they were having. That was early on in the year, while sledge occasionally runs the 1, Davis is their starting pg

It was a rough game overall.  One of the reasons I'm so high on Albertus is because I feel like that was close to their worst game - and they still looked darn impressive.  It was, what, game two, maybe, with a pretty big new piece coming in.  Chemistry was bad.  Davis didn't know where he fit, plus he was in foul trouble from the tip.  The eye thing was unfortunate, but he was on the bench ready to go the whole second half.

It is what it is.  Overcoming those problems and incorporating three scorers into the team is a testament to those guys.  I can't wait to see them in the tournament - I'm secretly hoping they get shipped down this way - because I think they'll look completely different than they did.

I root for teams to excel.  I like seeing good basketball no matter who it's from.  I have a lot of hope they'll put together some magical game (a la Williams against Amherst in Salem last year), because it's just fun to watch.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 08, 2015, 10:57:25 PM

After all the losses this week, I went back to the beginning again and started over.  Some teams moved a lot, but I was happy I had a good number in the right places all along.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 09, 2015, 12:14:42 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 08, 2015, 10:57:25 PM

After all the losses this week, I went back to the beginning again and started over.  Some teams moved a lot, but I was happy I had a good number in the right places all along.

I did mine earlier and outside of 3 or 4 that were more than 5 spots off, we generally had the same teams right around the same area.  I thought I was going to be completely off board this week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Bengalsrule on February 09, 2015, 03:38:26 PM
Any idea when the 1st regional rankings come out??
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 09, 2015, 03:42:50 PM
Quote from: Bengalsrule on February 09, 2015, 03:38:26 PM
Any idea when the 1st regional rankings come out??

This Wednesday Feb. 11th, I believe.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 10, 2015, 08:07:47 PM
I'll probably be at the Eastern Connecticut/Keene game tomorrow night so won't be able to post the poll.  New deadline for this week will be 1 PM Thursday.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ferraro13 on February 10, 2015, 10:46:49 PM
Looks like albetus might have lost one of their starting guards for the yr, but it can't ne confirmed. Without him they are not a top ten team. Top 25? Yes. Threat to best anyone in the country? Prob not without him unfortunately
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 11, 2015, 09:09:32 AM
Quote from: Ferraro13 on February 10, 2015, 10:46:49 PM
Looks like albetus might have lost one of their starting guards for the yr, but it can't ne confirmed. Without him they are not a top ten team. Top 25? Yes. Threat to best anyone in the country? Prob not without him unfortunately

With Sledge and Vic, they're good enough to compete with anyone.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 11, 2015, 03:08:04 PM
Looks like the NCAA is agreeing with me about Albertus being ranked too high... barely top 10 in their own region? I'm not sure that even I would have them that low :o
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 11, 2015, 03:16:58 PM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 11, 2015, 03:08:04 PM
Looks like the NCAA is agreeing with me about Albertus being ranked too high... barely top 10 in their own region? I'm not sure that even I would have them that low :o


Their SOS is .469.  Bates' is .615.  We have huge SOS gaps in the NE.


Remember, the RR have nothing to do with how good a team actually is.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 12, 2015, 11:36:14 PM
Posters Poll 2-12-15 (week 5):

1) St. Thomas 148 (1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2)
2) Marietta 141 (1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 3)
3) Whitewater 140 (2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4)
4) Randolph-Macon 128 (3, 4, 4, 5, 6, 6)
5) Babson 116 (4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10)
6) Virginia Wesleyan 115 (5, 6, 7, 7, 8, 8)
7) Stevens Point 101 (6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 13)
T8) Augustana 98 (4, 8, 9, 9, 11, 17)
T8) St. Norbert 98 (4, 5, 7, 9, 12, 21)
10) Dickinson 96 (7, 9, 9, 10, 12, 13)
11) Johns Hopkins 90 (6, 9, 11, 12, 14, 14)
12) Albertus Magnus 84 (5, 5, 8, 11, 18, 25)
13) St. Olaf 78 (10, 10, 11, 13, 13, 21)
14) Washington University 60 (10, 12, 14, 16, 20, 24)
15) Illinois Wesleyan 55 (11, 12, 16, 16, 20, NR)
16) Ohio Wesleyan 50 (14, 15, 17, 19, 19, NR)
T17) Richard Stockton 48 (13, 15, 17, 18, 19, NR)
T17) William Paterson 48 (12, 14, 16, 20, 22, 24)
T17) Worcester Polytech 48 (13, 14, 15, 18, 22, NR)
20) Chapman 45 (15, 16, 16, 19, 22, 23)
21) Eastern Connecticut 38 (17, 17, 18, 20, 21, 25)
22) Emory 27 (15, 21, 22, 23, 23, NR)
23) Elmhurst 16 (19, 19, 24, NR, NR, NR)
24) Wooster 15 (18, 21, 24, NR, NR, NR)
25) Catholic 14 (21, 22, 22, 25, NR, NR)
--------------------
26) Whitworth 12 (17, 23)
27) Chicago 11 (15)
T28) Franklin & Marshall 8
T28) St. John Fisher 8 (20, 24)
30) Bates 6 (20)
T31) Centre 3 (23)
T31) Hope 3 (23)
T33) Mount Union 2 (24)
T33) Scranton 2 (25, 25)
35) Amherst 1 (25)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 13, 2015, 03:07:38 AM

1) St. Thomas 148 (1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2)
2) Marietta 141 (1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 3)
3) Whitewater 140 (2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4)
4) Randolph-Macon 128 (3, 4, 4, 5, 6, 6)
5) Babson 116 (4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10)*
6) Virginia Wesleyan 115 (5, 6, 7, 7, 8, 8)
7) Stevens Point 101 (6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 13)
T8) Augustana 98 (4, 8, 9, 9, 11, 17)
T8) St. Norbert 98 (4, 5, 7, 9, 12, 21)*
10) Dickinson 96 (7, 9, 9, 10, 12, 13)
11) Johns Hopkins 90 (6, 9, 11, 12, 14, 14)*
12) Albertus Magnus 84 (5, 5, 8, 11, 18, 25)*
13) St. Olaf 78 (10, 10, 11, 13, 13, 21)
14) Washington University 60 (10, 12, 14, 16, 20, 24)
15) Illinois Wesleyan 55 (11, 12, 16, 16, 20, NR)*
16) Ohio Wesleyan 50 (14, 15, 17, 19, 19, NR)
T17) Richard Stockton 48 (13, 15, 17, 18, 19, NR)*
T17) William Paterson 48 (12, 14, 16, 20, 22, 24)*
T17) Worcester Polytech 48 (13, 14, 15, 18, 22, NR)
20) Chapman 45 (15, 16, 16, 19, 22, 23)
21) Eastern Connecticut 38 (17, 17, 18, 20, 21, 25)
22) Emory 27 (15, 21, 22, 23, 23, NR)
23) Elmhurst 16 (19, 19, 24, NR, NR, NR)
24) Wooster 15 (18, 21, 24, NR, NR, NR)
25) Catholic 14 (21, 22, 22, 25, NR, NR)
--------------------
26) Whitworth 12 (17, 23)
27) Chicago 11 (15)
T28) Franklin & Marshall 8 (18)*
T28) St. John Fisher 8 (20, 24)
30) Bates 6 (20)*
T31) Centre 3 (23)
T31) Hope 3 (23)
T33) Mount Union 2 (24)
T33) Scranton 2 (25, 25)
35) Amherst 1 (25)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on February 15, 2015, 08:23:18 PM
We seem to be shedding voters. I know it's a hard year, but...it's not THAT hard.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 15, 2015, 09:37:21 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 15, 2015, 08:23:18 PM
We seem to be shedding voters. I know it's a hard year, but...it's not THAT hard.

I missed last week visiting my 10-month old grandson, but I've already submitted this week's ballot.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 16, 2015, 03:32:46 PM
Posters Poll 2-12-15 (week 5):

1) St. Thomas 148 (1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2)
2) Marietta 141 (1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 3)
3) Whitewater 140 (2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4)
4) Randolph-Macon 128 (3, 4, 4, 5, 6, 6)
5) Babson 116 (4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10)*
6) Virginia Wesleyan 115 (5, 6, 7, 7, 8, 8)
7) Stevens Point 101 (6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 13)
T8) Augustana 98 (4, 8, 9, 9, 11, 17)*
T8) St. Norbert 98 (4, 5, 7, 9, 12, 21)
10) Dickinson 96 (7, 9, 9, 10, 12, 13)*
11) Johns Hopkins 90 (6, 9, 11, 12, 14, 14)
12) Albertus Magnus 84 (5, 5, 8, 11, 18, 25)
13) St. Olaf 78 (10, 10, 11, 13, 13, 21)*
14) Washington University 60 (10, 12, 14, 16, 20, 24)
15) Illinois Wesleyan 55 (11, 12, 16, 16, 20, NR)
16) Ohio Wesleyan 50 (14, 15, 17, 19, 19, NR)
T17) Richard Stockton 48 (13, 15, 17, 18, 19, NR)
T17) William Paterson 48 (12, 14, 16, 20, 22, 24)*
T17) Worcester Polytech 48 (13, 14, 15, 18, 22, NR)*
20) Chapman 45 (15, 16, 16, 19, 22, 23)
21) Eastern Connecticut 38 (17, 17, 18, 20, 21, 25)
22) Emory 27 (15, 21, 22, 23, 23, NR)
23) Elmhurst 16 (19, 19, 24, NR, NR, NR)
24) Wooster 15 (18, 21, 24, NR, NR, NR)*
25) Catholic 14 (21, 22, 22, 25, NR, NR)
--------------------
26) Whitworth 12 (17, 23)
27) Chicago 11 (15)
T28) Franklin & Marshall 8
T28) St. John Fisher 8 (20, 24)
30) Bates 6 (20)
T31) Centre 3 (23)
T31) Hope 3 (23)
T33) Mount Union 2 (24)
T33) Scranton 2 (25, 25)*
35) Amherst 1 (25)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 16, 2015, 03:53:25 PM
I did mine for this week.  I basically blew the whole thing up and started over.  Not remotely confident in ANY of the 25 teams I have in there, and the spots I have them at, I have a feeling I'll have a lot of outliers this week.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: HOPEful on February 17, 2015, 06:18:26 AM
I concur. Has there ever been a season in which so many teams fit the bill as both a legitimate contender to travel to Salem and a legitimate worry to get knocked out in the first weekend?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 19, 2015, 12:31:10 AM
I'm not sure when I'll get this weeks poll in  :(  I had to work late tonight & tomorrow and I'll probably be up in Boston over the weekend.  I'll try to post it some point Friday.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 20, 2015, 08:56:03 PM
Sorry for the delay, Poster's Poll 2-20-15 (week 6):

1) Randolph-Macon 164 (1, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 5)
2) Whitewater 162 (1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 4, 6)
3) St. Thomas 159 (1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 6, 7)
4) Babson 149 (2, 3, 4, 4, 4, 7, 9)
5) Stevens Point 139 (3, 5, 5, 6, 6, 8, 10)
T6) Augustana 134 (2, 4, 5, 7, 8, 11, 11)
T6) Marietta 134 (3, 6, 6, 7, 8, 9, 9)
8) St. Norbert 132 (1, 4, 5, 5, 7, 8, 20)
9) Virginia Wesleyan 113 (7, 9, 9, 11, 11, 12, 12)
10) Albertus Magnus 111 (4, 6, 8, 8, 10, 11, 24)
11) St. Olaf 103 (7, 8, 9, 10, 12, 16, 17)
12) Johns Hopkins 89 (9, 12, 13, 13, 15, 15, 16)
13) Dickinson 87 (10, 11, 12, 12, 15, 15, 20)
14) WPI 82 (10, 10, 11, 12, 13, 18, NR)
15) Ohio Wesleyan 73 (13, 13, 13, 14, 17, 19, 20)
16) Emory 64 (14, 15, 15, 17, 18, 18, 21)
17) Elmhurst 55 (14, 14, 16, 17, 21, 22, 23)
18) Eastern Connecticut 54 (12, 14, 14, 19, 22, 23, 24)
19) Washington University 49 (14, 16, 16, 17, 21, 24, 25)
20) Catholic 39 (18, 18, 19, 20, 21, 21, NR)
21) Whitworth 37 (13, 16, 21, 22, 23, 24, NR)
22) St. John Fisher 34 (15, 18, 19, 19, 25, NR, NR)
23) Wooster 21 (19, 20, 22, 23, 25, NR, NR)
24) Richard Stockton 19 (19, 23, 23, 23, 24, 25, NR)
25) Franklin & Marshall 18 (16, 22, 22, NR, NR, NR, NR)
------------
26) Illinois Wesleyan 17 (17, 18)
27) Chapman 11 (20, 21)
28) Chicago 9 (17)
29) Centre 6 (20)
T30) Mount Union 4 (22)
T30) New York University 4 (24, 24)
T32) East Texas Baptist 1 (25)
T32) Penn State-Behrend 1 (25)
T32) Whitman 1 (25)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 20, 2015, 09:01:37 PM
Sorry for the delay, Poster's Poll 2-20-15 (week 6):

1) Randolph-Macon 164 (1, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 5)
2) Whitewater 162 (1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 4, 6)*
3) St. Thomas 159 (1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 6, 7)*
4) Babson 149 (2, 3, 4, 4, 4, 7, 9)
5) Stevens Point 139 (3, 5, 5, 6, 6, 8, 10)
T6) Augustana 134 (2, 4, 5, 7, 8, 11, 11)*
T6) Marietta 134 (3, 6, 6, 7, 8, 9, 9)
8) St. Norbert 132 (1, 4, 5, 5, 7, 8, 20)
9) Virginia Wesleyan 113 (7, 9, 9, 11, 11, 12, 12)
10) Albertus Magnus 111 (4, 6, 8, 8, 10, 11, 24)*
11) St. Olaf 103 (7, 8, 9, 10, 12, 16, 17)
12) Johns Hopkins 89 (9, 12, 13, 13, 15, 15, 16)
13) Dickinson 87 (10, 11, 12, 12, 15, 15, 20)*
14) WPI 82 (10, 10, 11, 12, 13, 18, NR)
15) Ohio Wesleyan 73 (13, 13, 13, 14, 17, 19, 20)
16) Emory 64 (14, 15, 15, 17, 18, 18, 21)
17) Elmhurst 55 (14, 14, 16, 17, 21, 22, 23)*
18) Eastern Connecticut 54 (12, 14, 14, 19, 22, 23, 24)
19) Washington University 49 (14, 16, 16, 17, 21, 24, 25)
20) Catholic 39 (18, 18, 19, 20, 21, 21, NR)
21) Whitworth 37 (13, 16, 21, 22, 23, 24, NR)
22) St. John Fisher 34 (15, 18, 19, 19, 25, NR, NR)
23) Wooster 21 (19, 20, 22, 23, 25, NR, NR)*
24) Richard Stockton 19 (19, 23, 23, 23, 24, 25, NR)
25) Franklin & Marshall 18 (16, 22, 22, NR, NR, NR, NR)
------------
26) Illinois Wesleyan 17 (17, 18)*
27) Chapman 11 (20, 21)
28) Chicago 9 (17)
29) Centre 6 (20)
T30) Mount Union 4 (22)
T30) New York University 4 (24, 24)
T32) East Texas Baptist 1 (25)
T32) Penn State-Behrend 1 (25)
T32) Whitman 1 (25)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 20, 2015, 09:13:19 PM
Sorry for the delay, Poster's Poll 2-20-15 (week 6):

1) Randolph-Macon 164 (1, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 5)
2) Whitewater 162 (1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 4, 6)
3) St. Thomas 159 (1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 6, 7)
4) Babson 149 (2, 3, 4, 4, 4, 7, 9)
5) Stevens Point 139 (3, 5, 5, 6, 6, 8, 10)
T6) Augustana 134 (2, 4, 5, 7, 8, 11, 11)
T6) Marietta 134 (3, 6, 6, 7, 8, 9, 9)*
8) St. Norbert 132 (1, 4, 5, 5, 7, 8, 20)*
9) Virginia Wesleyan 113 (7, 9, 9, 11, 11, 12, 12)
10) Albertus Magnus 111 (4, 6, 8, 8, 10, 11, 24)*
11) St. Olaf 103 (7, 8, 9, 10, 12, 16, 17)
12) Johns Hopkins 89 (9, 12, 13, 13, 15, 15, 16)*
13) Dickinson 87 (10, 11, 12, 12, 15, 15, 20)
14) WPI 82 (10, 10, 11, 12, 13, 18, NR)
15) Ohio Wesleyan 73 (13, 13, 13, 14, 17, 19, 20)
16) Emory 64 (14, 15, 15, 17, 18, 18, 21)
17) Elmhurst 55 (14, 14, 16, 17, 21, 22, 23)
18) Eastern Connecticut 54 (12, 14, 14, 19, 22, 23, 24)*
19) Washington University 49 (14, 16, 16, 17, 21, 24, 25)
20) Catholic 39 (18, 18, 19, 20, 21, 21, NR)
21) Whitworth 37 (13, 16, 21, 22, 23, 24, NR)
22) St. John Fisher 34 (15, 18, 19, 19, 25, NR, NR)
23) Wooster 21 (19, 20, 22, 23, 25, NR, NR)
24) Richard Stockton 19 (19, 23, 23, 23, 24, 25, NR)*
25) Franklin & Marshall 18 (16, 22, 22, NR, NR, NR, NR)*
------------
26) Illinois Wesleyan 17 (17, 18)
27) Chapman 11 (20, 21)
28) Chicago 9 (17)
29) Centre 6 (20)
T30) Mount Union 4 (22)
T30) New York University 4 (24, 24)
T32) East Texas Baptist 1 (25)*
T32) Penn State-Behrend 1 (25)
T32) Whitman 1 (25)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 25, 2015, 11:43:01 PM
Posters Poll 2-25-15 (week 7):

1) Randolph-Macon 140 (1, 1, 1, 3, 5, 5)
2) UW-Whitewater 139 (1, 1, 2, 3, 4, 6)
3) Babson 133 (2, 2, 3, 4, 6, 6)
4) UW-Stevens Point 123 (2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9)
5) St. Thomas 118 (2, 3, 4, 8, 10, 11)
T6) Augustana 117 (2, 3, 7, 8, 9, 10)
T6) St. Norbert 117 (1, 4, 5, 5, 7, 17)
8) Marietta 115 (3, 6, 7, 8, 8, 9)
9) Virginia Wesleyan 101 (6, 8, 9, 10, 11, 11)
10) Albertus Magnus 94 (4, 5, 7, 12, 14, 20)
11) Johns Hopkins 87 (8, 10, 11, 12, 14, 14)
12) St. Olaf 84 (7, 9, 9, 13, 15, 19)
13) Ohio Wesleyan 73 (12, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17)
14) WPI 71 (10, 10, 11, 11, 17, NR)
15) Emory 66 (13, 13, 15, 15, 17, 17)
16) Eastern Connecticut 61 (12, 13, 13, 18, 19, 20)
17) Wash U 53 (14, 14, 16, 17, 20, 22)
18) Whitworth 44 (12, 16, 18, 19, 21, NR)
19) Dickinson 42 (15, 16, 18, 21, 22, 22)
20) Wooster 33 (18, 18, 19, 19, 24, 25)
21) Illinois Wesleyan 30 (15, 16, 20, 23, NR, NR)
22) Richard Stockton 26 (16, 19, 20, 23, NR, NR)
23) Franklin & Marshall 15 (20, 21, 23, 25, NR, NR)
24) John Carroll 14 (18, 22, 24, NR, NR, NR)
25) Catholic 13 (22, 22, 23, 24, NR, NR)
-----------------
26) Centre 11 (16, 25)
27) Elmhurst 10 (21, 21)
T28) St. John Fisher 5 (21)
T28) Whitman 5 (23, 24)
30) Mount Union 3 (23)
T31) Calvin 2 (24)
T31) Chicago 2 (24)
T33) PS-Behrend 1 (25)
T33) Scranton 1 (25)
T33) Southern Vermont 1 (25)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: HOPEful on February 26, 2015, 12:28:54 PM
1) Randolph-Macon 140 (1, 1, 1, 3, 5, 5)
2) UW-Whitewater 139 (1, 1, 2, 3, 4, 6)
3) Babson 133 (2, 2, 3, 4, 6, 6)
4) UW-Stevens Point 123 (2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9)
5) St. Thomas 118 (2, 3, 4, 8, 10, 11)
T6) Augustana 117 (2, 3, 7, 8, 9, 10)
T6) St. Norbert 117 (1, 4, 5, 5, 7, 17)
8) Marietta 115 (3, 6, 7, 8, 8, 9)
9) Virginia Wesleyan 101 (6, 8, 9, 10, 11, 11)
10) Albertus Magnus 94 (4, 5, 7, 12, 14, 20)
11) Johns Hopkins 87 (8, 10, 11, 12, 14, 14)
12) St. Olaf 84 (7, 9, 9, 13, 15, 19)
13) Ohio Wesleyan 73 (12, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17)
14) WPI 71 (10, 10, 11, 11, 17, NR)
15) Emory 66 (13, 13, 15, 15, 17, 17)
16) Eastern Connecticut 61 (12, 13, 13, 18, 19, 20)
17) Wash U 53 (14, 14, 16, 17, 20, 22)
18) Whitworth 44 (12, 16, 18, 19, 21, NR)
19) Dickinson 42 (15, 16, 18, 21, 22, 22)
20) Wooster 33 (18, 18, 19, 19, 24, 25)
21) Illinois Wesleyan 30 (15, 16, 20, 23, NR, NR)
22) Richard Stockton 26 (16, 19, 20, 23, NR, NR)
23) Franklin & Marshall 15 (20, 21, 23, 25, NR, NR)
24) John Carroll 14 (18, 22, 24, NR, NR, NR)
25) Catholic 13 (22, 22, 23, 24, NR, NR)
-----------------
26) Centre 11 (16, 25)
27) Elmhurst 10 (21, 21)
T28) St. John Fisher 5 (21)
T28) Whitman 5 (23, 24)
30) Mount Union 3 (23)
T31) Calvin 2 (24)
T31) Chicago 2 (24)
T33) PS-Behrend 1 (25)
T33) Scranton 1 (25)
T33) Southern Vermont 1 (25)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on March 02, 2015, 02:01:05 PM
I just found out I broke my wrist today so no poll this week  :'(. If someone else wants to fill in this week be my guest.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2015, 02:03:39 PM
Quote from: 7express on March 02, 2015, 02:01:05 PM
I just found out I broke my wrist today so no poll this week  :'(. If someone else wants to fill in this week be my guest.

Since I originated the poll, I could certainly sub a week.  Forward any ballots to me.  If any posters haven't yet submitted (or just want to help out 7express by RE-submitting), PM them to me.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on March 02, 2015, 02:39:02 PM
Quote from: 7express on March 02, 2015, 02:01:05 PM
I just found out I broke my wrist today so no poll this week  :'(. If someone else wants to fill in this week be my guest.

7express,

Sorry to hear that. Hope everything turns out ok and you heal quickly.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 02, 2015, 03:19:37 PM

I sent mine to 7 already - did he pass it along or do you need it?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2015, 03:36:24 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 02, 2015, 03:19:37 PM

I sent mine to 7 already - did he pass it along or do you need it?

Haven't received anything from him yet.  Go ahead an re-send it to me, in case he is totally hors de combat.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on March 02, 2015, 10:55:39 PM
Quote from: 7express on March 02, 2015, 02:01:05 PM
I just found out I broke my wrist today so no poll this week  :'(. If someone else wants to fill in this week be my guest.

I'm probably gonna need surgery next week too, so unless you don't mind a few extra weeks for the end of season poll, someone should take over that too  :'(

Sorry for the inconvenience, and thanks for subbing this week Ypsi!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on March 02, 2015, 11:17:56 PM
Yick!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2015, 11:33:21 PM
Quote from: 7express on March 02, 2015, 10:55:39 PM
Quote from: 7express on March 02, 2015, 02:01:05 PM
I just found out I broke my wrist today so no poll this week  :'(. If someone else wants to fill in this week be my guest.

I'm probably gonna need surgery next week too, so unless you don't mind a few extra weeks for the end of season poll, someone should take over that too  :'(

Sorry for the inconvenience, and thanks for subbing this week Ypsi!

Yeah, I can do the final poll too.  You take care!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 03, 2015, 10:10:29 PM
Being only the sub, I don't know the habits of voters this year.  But it is late evening on Tuesday, and I still have only four ballots.  Is it time for me to have a coronary? ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 03, 2015, 10:35:55 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 03, 2015, 10:10:29 PM
Being only the sub, I don't know the habits of voters this year.  But it is late evening on Tuesday, and I still have only four ballots.  Is it time for me to have a coronary? ;D
Not yet. Deadline was usually Wed so I'm sure someone like me still haven't sent theirs yet. ;)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on March 03, 2015, 10:55:08 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 03, 2015, 10:10:29 PM
Being only the sub, I don't know the habits of voters this year.  But it is late evening on Tuesday, and I still have only four ballots.  Is it time for me to have a coronary? ;D

I set the deadline for 8 pm Wednesday so a couple posters sent them in Wed afternoon.  however the past 2 or 3 weeks I think ive only gotten 4 or 5 ballots (most all season was 9 including mine) so once you've hit 7 if you get there I wouldn't expect many, if any, more.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 03, 2015, 11:09:21 PM
Quote from: 7express on March 03, 2015, 10:55:08 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 03, 2015, 10:10:29 PM
Being only the sub, I don't know the habits of voters this year.  But it is late evening on Tuesday, and I still have only four ballots.  Is it time for me to have a coronary? ;D

I set the deadline for 8 pm Wednesday so a couple posters sent them in Wed afternoon.  however the past 2 or 3 weeks I think ive only gotten 4 or 5 ballots (most all season was 9 including mine) so once you've hit 7 if you get there I wouldn't expect many, if any, more.

Yeah, alas, it has been slowly dwindling for years.  For awhile, 12 was a disappointing week, but I don't think we've hit ten in two or three years.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 03, 2015, 11:19:53 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 03, 2015, 11:09:21 PM
Quote from: 7express on March 03, 2015, 10:55:08 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 03, 2015, 10:10:29 PM
Being only the sub, I don't know the habits of voters this year.  But it is late evening on Tuesday, and I still have only four ballots.  Is it time for me to have a coronary? ;D

I set the deadline for 8 pm Wednesday so a couple posters sent them in Wed afternoon.  however the past 2 or 3 weeks I think ive only gotten 4 or 5 ballots (most all season was 9 including mine) so once you've hit 7 if you get there I wouldn't expect many, if any, more.

Yeah, alas, it has been slowly dwindling for years.  For awhile, 12 was a disappointing week, but I don't think we've hit ten in two or three years.

I'm fine killing it off.  Don't keep it alive for my sake.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 03, 2015, 11:23:26 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 03, 2015, 11:09:21 PM
Quote from: 7express on March 03, 2015, 10:55:08 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 03, 2015, 10:10:29 PM
Being only the sub, I don't know the habits of voters this year.  But it is late evening on Tuesday, and I still have only four ballots.  Is it time for me to have a coronary? ;D

I set the deadline for 8 pm Wednesday so a couple posters sent them in Wed afternoon.  however the past 2 or 3 weeks I think ive only gotten 4 or 5 ballots (most all season was 9 including mine) so once you've hit 7 if you get there I wouldn't expect many, if any, more.

Yeah, alas, it has been slowly dwindling for years.  For awhile, 12 was a disappointing week, but I don't think we've hit ten in two or three years.
During football season we had 10 this year which was more than the past couple years
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on March 04, 2015, 09:08:38 AM
Maybe better marketing? Hire Sterling Cooper Draper Pryce!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 04, 2015, 10:06:06 PM
Well, we reached five. ::)  Any more in the offing, or should I surrender and post?  One hour for responses!  (Your ballot would count - many spots up for grabs, including #1.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on March 04, 2015, 10:27:35 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 04, 2015, 10:06:06 PM
Well, we reached five. ::)  Any more in the offing, or should I surrender and post?  One hour for responses!  (Your ballot would count - many spots up for grabs, including #1.)

I cant submit one, so looks like you'll be good to go.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on March 04, 2015, 10:57:46 PM
Did you get mine?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 04, 2015, 11:18:52 PM
*SIGH*  Five ballots.  (On the other hand, my easiest typing job since I invented this thing! ;))

FINAL REGULAR SEASON POLL:

1.  UWW           120 (1,1,2,2,4)
2.  Randy Mac    119 (1,1,2,3,4)
3.  Babson         113 (2,3,4,4,4)
4.  St. Thomas   106 (2,3,3,7,9)
5.  Augie            104 (3,5,6,6,6)
6.  St. Norbert     95 (1,5,6,6,17)
7.  Va Wes          88 (7,8,9,9,9)
8.  UWSP            87 (7,8,8,10,10)
9.  Albertus         86 (5,5,7,8,19)
10 Marietta         81 (5,10,11,11,12)
11 Dickinson       71 (8,9,10,12,20)
12 Emory            59 (12,13,13,15,18)
t13 JHU              57 (7,15,15,16,20)
t13 WashU          57 (12,13,14,17,17)
15 OWU             50 (13,14,16,18,19)
t16 Whitworth     48 (14,14,14,18,22)
t16 WPI              48 (11,11,16,18,-)
18 St. Olaf          37 (10, 17,20,23,23)
19 Stockton        33 (15,16,16,24,-)
20 Wooster         30 (18,19,20,21,22)
21 UMU              22 (11,21,24,-,-)
t22 E. Conn         19 (12,23,25,25,-)
t22 IWU              19 (13,20,-,-,-)
24 SJF                17 (17,22,22,-,-)
25 JCU               11 (15,-,-,-,-)

26 Scranton        10 (19,23)
27 F&M                 9 (21,22)
28 ETB                 8 (21,24,25)
t29 Catholic          7 (23,24,25,25)
t29 Elmhurst         7 (19)
31 Whitman          5 (21)
32 Calvin              2 (24)

Voters this week:  Hoops Fan, frodotwo, smedindy, FCGG, and yours truly.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 21, 2015, 09:05:40 PM
Don't forget - we do do a final poll.  Send me a ballot before your thoughts totally leave basketball for a few months! 8-)

I'll probably post on Wednesday evening.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 25, 2015, 04:02:57 PM
Four ballots is all we've got so far.  I plan to post about 8 tonight unless I hear from someone wanting an extension.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 25, 2015, 09:06:04 PM
I had already started typing when ballot #6 came over the transom!

FINAL POLL, 2015:

1.  UWSP      150 (unanimous)
2.  Augie       144 (unanimous)
3.  Babson     134 (3,3,3,4,4,5)
4.  VaWes      129 (3,3,4,4,5,8)
5.  RandyMac   124 (4,4,5,5,5,7)
6.  St. Thomas 114 (3,6,7,8,8,10)
7.  UWW          112 (5,6,6,7,10,10)
8.  Marietta      107 (5,6,9,9,10,10)
9.  Dickinson    102 (6,6,7,8,13,17)
10 Albertus        85 (6,8,11,11,12,22
11 Emory          84 (9,11,12,12,13,15)
12 JHU             78 (7,9,12,13,18,19)
13 St. Olaf        70 9,10,14,14,18,21)
14 St. Norbert   65 (8,11,14,14,18,-)
15 Whitworth    51 (13,16,16,19,20,21)
16 UMU            48 (11,16,18,18,19,-)
t17 ETBU          43 (12,16,16,17,-,-)
t17 OWU           43 (13,15,17,19,23,-)
t19 Stockton      37 (14,17,19,20,23,-)
t19 WashU         37 (13,15,21,22,22,-)
21 Wooster        34 (17,17,20,20,23,25)
22 TrinityCT       32 (14,15,20,23,-,-)
23 SJF               30 (15,16,20,24,25,-)
24 IWU              24 (12,19,23,-,-,-)
25 Elmhurst       15 (15,22,-,-,-,-)

26 Bates            10 (21,24,24,25)
t27 E. Conn         9 (21,22)
t27 Scranton       9 (21,22)
t27 WPI              9  (18,25)
30 Calvin            4 (22)
t31 F&M              2 (24)
t31 Skidmore      2 (24)
t31 TrinityTX      2 (24)
t34 Catholic        1
t34 CMS             1
t34 So. VT          1

Voters:  Hoops Fan, frodotwo, smedindy, FCGG, ronk, and yours truly
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 25, 2015, 10:54:37 PM
Three teams dropped off my ballot (St Norbert 17th, Catholic 23rd, Calvin 24th) and were replaced by Mount Union, St John Fisher, and Trinity (CT)

FINAL POLL, 2015:

1.  UWSP      150 (unanimous)
2.  Augie       144 (unanimous)
3.  Babson     134 (3,3,3,4,4,5)
4.  VaWes      129 (3,3,4,4,5,8)
5.  RandyMac   124 (4,4,5,5,5,7)
6.  St. Thomas 114 (3,6,7,8,8,10)
7.  UWW          112 (5,6,6,7,10,10)
8.  Marietta      107 (5,6,9,9,10,10)
9.  Dickinson    102 (6,6,7,8,13,17)
10 Albertus        85 (6,8,11,11,12,23)
11 Emory          84 (9,11,12,12,13,15)
12 JHU             78 (7,9,12,13,18,19)
13 St. Olaf        70 (9,10,14,14,18,21)
14 St. Norbert   65 (8,11,14,14,18,--)
15 Whitworth    51 (13,16,16,19,20,21)
16 UMU            48 (11,16,18,18,19,-)
t17 ETBU          43 (12,16,16,17,-,-)
t17 OWU           43 (13,15,17,19,23,-)
t19 Stockton      37 (14,17,19,20,23,-)
t19 WashU         37 (13,15,21,22,22,-)
21 Wooster        34 (17,17,20,20,23,25)
22 TrinityCT       32 (14,15,20,23,-,-)
23 SJF               30 (15,16,20,24,25,-)
24 IWU              24 (12,19,23,-,-,--)
25 Elmhurst       15 (15,22,-,-,-,--)

26 Bates            10 (21,24,24,25)
t27 E. Conn         9 (21,22)
t27 Scranton       9 (21,22)
t27 WPI              9  (18,25)
30 Calvin            4 (22)
t31 F&M              2 (24)
t31 Skidmore      2 (24)
t31 TrinityTX      2 (24)
t34 Catholic        1
t34 CMS             1
t34 So. VT          1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 25, 2015, 11:36:44 PM
My final ballot of 2015:

1.  UWSP      150 (unanimous)
2.  Augie       144 (unanimous)
3.  Babson     134 (3,3,3,4,4,5)
4.  VaWes      129 (3,3,4,4,5,8)
5.  RandyMac   124 (4,4,5,5,5,7)
6.  St. Thomas 114 (3,6,7,8,8,10)
7.  UWW          112 (5,6,6,7,10,10)
8.  Marietta      107 (5,6,9,9,10,10)
9.  Dickinson    102 (6,6,7,8,13,17)
10 Albertus        85 (6,8,11,11,12,22
11 Emory          84 (9,11,12,12,13,15)
12 JHU             78 (7,9,12,13,18,19)
13 St. Olaf        70 9,10,14,14,18,21)
14 St. Norbert   65 (8,11,14,14,18,-)
15 Whitworth    51 (13,16,16,19,20,21)
16 UMU            48 (11,16,18,18,19,-)
t17 ETBU          43 (12,16,16,17,-,-)
t17 OWU           43 (13,15,17,19,23,-)
t19 Stockton      37 (14,17,19,20,23,-)
t19 WashU         37 (13,15,21,22,22,-)
21 Wooster        34 (17,17,20,20,23,25)
22 TrinityCT       32 (14,15,20,23,-,-)
23 SJF               30 (15,16,20,24,25,-)
24 IWU              24 (12,19,23,-,-,-)
25 Elmhurst       15 (15,22,-,-,-,-)

26 Bates            10 (21,24,24,25)
t27 E. Conn         9 (21,22)
t27 Scranton       9 (21,22)
t27 WPI              9  (18,25)
30 Calvin            4 (22)
t31 F&M              2 (24)
t31 Skidmore      2 (24)
t31 TrinityTX      2 (24)
t34 Catholic        1
t34 CMS             1
t34 So. VT          1

Voters:  Hoops Fan, frodotwo, smedindy, FCGG, ronk, and yours truly
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 04, 2016, 05:30:46 AM
So what happened to this? No one stepped up to the plate? It did not go out in a blaze of glory. Seems like it should have since it was a staple on the website for so long.  :(

I think Mr. Ypsi, the originator should give it a whirl for the rest of the year.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 04, 2016, 09:18:44 AM
That's a lot of work, as you know. When there is only 7 pollsters, not worth it. When there was 12-15, that was a lot of fun to discuss.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 04, 2016, 09:34:22 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 04, 2016, 09:18:44 AM
That's a lot of work, as you know. When there is only 7 pollsters, not worth it. When there was 12-15, that was a lot of fun to discuss.

I know and I was hoping that perhaps we could get some renewed interest. Besides, Chuck's retired and I was trying to see that he stays active. :D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 04, 2016, 01:49:51 PM
I'd volunteer to step up, but I just got way to much going on, no way I'd be able to pull it off.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 04, 2016, 09:46:33 PM
Quote from: magicman on February 04, 2016, 09:34:22 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 04, 2016, 09:18:44 AM
That's a lot of work, as you know. When there is only 7 pollsters, not worth it. When there was 12-15, that was a lot of fun to discuss.

I know and I was hoping that perhaps we could get some renewed interest. Besides, Chuck's retired and I was trying to see that he stays active. :D

The dog and the grankkids keep me plenty active! ;D

I will compile the poll ONLY if at least ten voters swear that they will actively participate.  It was just too frustrating in later years to wait until Wednesday or Thursday to finally put out a 'poll' of 5 or 6 voters.  It was really enjoyable in the early years, but it may have just run its course.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on February 05, 2016, 12:42:56 AM
With this coaching I'm doing I'm not even following D3 closely enough to put out a top 25 poll anyways that would be "reasonable" so unfortunately I would have to pass this year (hell I didn't even know Chris Newport was ranked, yet alone #6 until I saw it on the pick em league page yesterday).  Now you have about 4 people!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: magicman on February 05, 2016, 05:30:35 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 04, 2016, 09:46:33 PM
Quote from: magicman on February 04, 2016, 09:34:22 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 04, 2016, 09:18:44 AM
That's a lot of work, as you know. When there is only 7 pollsters, not worth it. When there was 12-15, that was a lot of fun to discuss.

I know and I was hoping that perhaps we could get some renewed interest. Besides, Chuck's retired and I was trying to see that he stays active. :D

The dog and the grankkids keep me plenty active! ;D

I will compile the poll ONLY if at least ten voters swear that they will actively participate.  It was just too frustrating in later years to wait until Wednesday or Thursday to finally put out a 'poll' of 5 or 6 voters.  It was really enjoyable in the early years, but it may have just run its course.

Understandable, and I doubt you'd get 10 unless a bunch of newbies showed up. I know you'd probably have 4 with Grizzlies, Hoops Fan, you and me. After that it would be a crap shoot.  ::) Now if we could get the guys in the Pick 'Em League and the Futures Tournament to come on board we'd be set.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 07, 2018, 03:59:12 AM
With some of the discussion going on in the Top 25 thread, I thought I'd see if there was interest in resurrecting this. If we can get at least 10 or so I'll run the thing. (We had 10 on the football side this season and you don't want basketball to have less support than them do you?)
Votes would be after Sunday games and need to be submitted in a timely manner (certainly by Tuesday but preferably by Monday)
Only say you're interested if you'll participate every week (or almost every week... I know you have lives and vacations and such) and not disappear before the end of the tournament.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Smitty Oom on January 07, 2018, 10:03:54 AM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 07, 2018, 03:59:12 AM
With some of the discussion going on in the Top 25 thread, I thought I'd see if there was interest in resurrecting this. If we can get at least 10 or so I'll run the thing. (We had 10 on the football side this season and you don't want basketball to have less support than them do you?)
Votes would be after Sunday games and need to be submitted in a timely manner (certainly by Tuesday but preferably by Monday)
Only say you're interested if you'll participate every week (or almost every week... I know you have lives and vacations and such) and not disappear before the end of the tournament.

Ill do this! I may not put as much time in as a real voter, but I will try my best not to show conference bias ;)

Start this week or next, do you think?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 07, 2018, 10:49:52 AM
I'll vote
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: TheOsprey on January 07, 2018, 10:54:21 AM
Same here!!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 07, 2018, 11:45:38 AM
I'm game.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: warriorcat on January 07, 2018, 12:15:01 PM
I'm in
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 07, 2018, 12:33:16 PM

The last year we did this, I was already voting in the real poll (although I hadn't told anyone) - I just submitted my ballot here as well.  I;d be happy to do it again, if you want, but I'd also be fine sitting it out if you want it to be just posters.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 07, 2018, 07:58:41 PM
Well, that's seven (including Ryan), but no more additions in the last 7+ hours.  So I would assume the poll is a no go for THIS week, but maybe we can lure in some voters this coming week. :)

Folks, it IS a fair amount of work to do it right, but think of the benefits to your pickems results!  And for those likely to even consider joining, the 'work' is after all a 'labor of love' for d3 hoops!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 07, 2018, 08:56:43 PM
The way it's going right now I'd lean toward not this week, but I'm going to message a few people and just posted in the Top 25 thread. If we're going to have one this week I'll send a PM by tomorrow afternoon at the latest... probably should have tried to start this early in the week rather than on a Saturday ::)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Smitty Oom on January 07, 2018, 09:02:06 PM
I might do one for this week to warm up anyway!

But yes, I think there should be 3 of us out there that would be wanting to do this!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 07, 2018, 10:23:35 PM
I doubt I could participate THIS week.  It's been a hectic day in Ypsi.  The arctic grip finally loosened today, which was a mixed blessing.  The dishwasher and ice-maker have both been out of service for a couple weeks, due to frozen lines.  Today the lines thawed, and the kitchen and basement flooded from the dishwasher spewing out water even though it was not turned on (line survived, according to the plumber, but valve in the dishwasher was shot, and drain pipe was still frozen, so....)  Had to turn off water to the whole house to stop the flood.  Tomorrow will be appliance repairman (hopefully), and then (perhaps) plumber again.  This has been a continuing problem due to lack of adequate insulation around the edges of the kitchen - if the temps drop to near zero for an extended period, the lines freeze and often destroy the appliances.

Memo to self: find SOME contractor who can solve insulation problem without having to completely tear down house!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 07, 2018, 10:41:01 PM
Due to the last minute nature, Ypsi being unable to go, and still recruiting folks I have decided that there will not be an official poll for this week. However if you want to prepare, go ahead and make your ballot and I'll give a simplified "preseason" poll on Tuesday. The following week will be the first full poll.

To submit your ballot you simply PM me your list. The best format is simply number every team with one team per line... and try to make sure I know which team you've chosen. I have the occasional issue in the football poll when someone starts using initials or shortened forms for teams that leave multiple possibilities (for instance is 'CM' Carnegie Mellon or Concordia Moorhead? or is 'Whit' Whitman, Whitworth, Whittier)
This (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=7065.msg1847136#msg1847136) is how the final football poll looked this season as a reference to how this will look.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 08, 2018, 11:17:03 AM
I'm gonna pass. The expanded fantasy leagues keep me more than busy.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Smitty Oom on January 08, 2018, 12:36:50 PM
Well here is my first ever top 25. Let me know what you think, Im sure I have a couple things I over looked or didnt take into account.

1   Whitman
2   Yorkpa
3   Swarthmore
4   UW-River Falls
5   UW-Whitewater
6   Whitworth
7   Augustana
8   Washington U.
9   St. John's
10   Wittenberg
11   Williams
12   Wesleyan
13   MIT
14   Nebraska Wesleyan
15   UW-Oshkosh
16   Hamilton
17   Middlebury
18   Ohio Wesleyan
19   Eastern Connecticut
20   Emory
21   IWU
22   Baldwin Wallace
23   John Carroll
24   Skidmore
25   Augsburg
ORV   Platteville
ORV   St. Norbert's
ORV   Emory & Henry
ORV   Buena Vista
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 08, 2018, 12:45:43 PM

Nebraska Wesleyan is the only one that seems like a head-scratcher to me.  Gaudy record, but one of the weakest schedules I've ever seen.  They got rocked in their first conference game by a mid-level team.  That's a tough one, although you may have seen something I haven't.  Everything else is entirely defensible.  I have four of the same top five.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Smitty Oom on January 08, 2018, 01:05:17 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 08, 2018, 12:45:43 PM

Nebraska Wesleyan is the only one that seems like a head-scratcher to me.  Gaudy record, but one of the weakest schedules I've ever seen.  They got rocked in their first conference game by a mid-level team.  That's a tough one, although you may have seen something I haven't.  Everything else is entirely defensible.  I have four of the same top five.

Yup. Very fair. I knew this was going to be the main difference from my top 25 and most other posters. They are getting arguably their best player back into form with Schimonitz, plus they were very good without him. It may be a biased, as I have watched this team play and I really like the Prarie Wolves offensive fire power and length on defense. With just one slip up against BVU on their resume (I admittedly didn't watch any of this game), I am still going to buy in. Now with two more tough IIAC games this week at Loras and at Dubuque, if they don't preform how I think they can I won't be afraid to move them down.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 08, 2018, 01:28:30 PM
They are at Loras and host Dubuque. If they don't win both of those, well then...
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 08, 2018, 02:54:57 PM
I;m in.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: me on January 08, 2018, 07:44:27 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 08, 2018, 12:45:43 PM

Nebraska Wesleyan is the only one that seems like a head-scratcher to me.  Gaudy record, but one of the weakest schedules I've ever seen.  They got rocked in their first conference game by a mid-level team.  That's a tough one, although you may have seen something I haven't.  Everything else is entirely defensible.  I have four of the same top five.

I don't think they have that weak a schedule, they just beaten anyone good enough to get a read on them. I don't think their schedule is appreciably worse than Whitman's.

Haha you'd probably love my top 5 then...I have I think 2 of these.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 08, 2018, 07:51:13 PM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on January 08, 2018, 01:05:17 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 08, 2018, 12:45:43 PM

Nebraska Wesleyan is the only one that seems like a head-scratcher to me.  Gaudy record, but one of the weakest schedules I've ever seen.  They got rocked in their first conference game by a mid-level team.  That's a tough one, although you may have seen something I haven't.  Everything else is entirely defensible.  I have four of the same top five.

Yup. Very fair. I knew this was going to be the main difference from my top 25 and most other posters. They are getting arguably their best player back into form with Schimonitz, plus they were very good without him. It may be a biased, as I have watched this team play and I really like the Prarie Wolves offensive fire power and length on defense. With just one slip up against BVU on their resume (I admittedly didn't watch any of this game), I am still going to buy in. Now with two more tough IIAC games this week at Loras and at Dubuque, if they don't preform how I think they can I won't be afraid to move them down.

I have Nebraska Wesleyan in the Top 5, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: me on January 08, 2018, 07:56:53 PM
Oh heck I might as well post it

1. Whitman
2. Wittenberg
3. St. John's
4. Augustana
5. York
6. John Carroll
7. Baldwin Wallace
8. UW-River Falls
9. Washington U
10. UW-Whitewater
11. Whitworth
12. Swarthmore
13. UW-Platteville
14. Wartburg
15. Augsburg
16. Illinois Wesleyan
17. Ohio Wesleyan
18. Marietta
19. UW-Oshkosh
20. MIT
Can I just stop here?
21. Hamilton
22. Emory & Henry
23. Wheaton IL
24. Franklin & Marshall
25. LeTourneau I think (I skipped a number, had to add 25 on later)

I didn't really want to vote for any of the last 5. If I had voted for teams other than these they would have been more OAC, CCIW, WIAC, MIAC...so more yowling from people, probably. So I tried to reward good starts from teams that at least tried to schedule well.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 08, 2018, 08:39:26 PM
I've got 5 ballots so far (which includes the two posted here) for the "preseason" poll and we're now up to 11 people participating. Things are looking good.
Of those 5 ballots, there's 43 teams receiving a vote and only 8 on all ballots.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 08, 2018, 10:51:02 PM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on January 08, 2018, 01:05:17 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 08, 2018, 12:45:43 PM

Nebraska Wesleyan is the only one that seems like a head-scratcher to me.  Gaudy record, but one of the weakest schedules I've ever seen.  They got rocked in their first conference game by a mid-level team.  That's a tough one, although you may have seen something I haven't.  Everything else is entirely defensible.  I have four of the same top five.

Yup. Very fair. I knew this was going to be the main difference from my top 25 and most other posters. They are getting arguably their best player back into form with Schimonitz, plus they were very good without him. It may be a biased, as I have watched this team play and I really like the Prarie Wolves offensive fire power and length on defense. With just one slip up against BVU on their resume (I admittedly didn't watch any of this game), I am still going to buy in. Now with two more tough IIAC games this week at Loras and at Dubuque, if they don't preform how I think they can I won't be afraid to move them down.

I did watch the BV game, which probably doesn't help.  They just looked way overmatched.  Maybe it's the step up from the level of competition they'd had to IIAC levels - hopefully they'll be contenders.  It's a fun offense to watch.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 09, 2018, 03:54:19 AM
I've had 7 ballots (which is more than I expected on such short notice) so here's the "preseason" poll.
Only 7 teams appeared on all seven ballots. Next week when we have everyone in I'll give the full rundown of votes.

Rank
Team
Points
1)
Whitman (6)
174
2)
Augustana
145
3)
York (PA)
141
4)
St John's
126
5)
UW-Whitewater
123
6)
Wittenberg
123
7)
Swarthmore
118
8)
UW-River Falls
115
9)
Whitworth
108
10)
Washington U
97
11)
MIT (1)
91
12)
Hamilton
82
13)
UW-Oskhosk
82
14)
Ohio Wesleyan
73
15)
Wesleyan
67
16)
Williams
67
17)
John Carroll
61
18)
Middlebury
50
19)
Marietta
46
20)
Baldwin Wallace
43
21)
Nebraska Wesleyan
40
22)
UW-Platteville
37
23)
Emory
29
24)
Skidmore
27
25)
Illinois Wesleyan
20
Also Receiving Votes: Eastern Connecticut 19, Augsburg 17, Lycoming 16, St Norbert 16, New Jersey City 15, Wartburg 15, Franklin & Marshall 13, Juniata 13, Ohio Northern 13, Emory & Henry 10, Amherst 9, TCNJ 8, North Central (IL) 6, Nichols 5, Albright 4, Maryville 4, Wheaton (IL) 3, Buena Vista 2, LeTourneau 1, St Thomas 1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: me on January 09, 2018, 11:30:01 AM
Augsburg dominated St. Thomas last night. I'm now pretty confident I valued them accurately.

Still some significant regional and anchoring bias in the poll vs. reality, but better, at least.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Team First on January 09, 2018, 01:40:59 PM
I saw the Augsburg/ St Thomas game online and wouldn't characterize it as a dominating win. The fact that the Tommies only went 4-28 from three didn't help matters but Augsburg only hit 3-16. As I saw things, the difference was that St Thomas had trouble finishing at the rim (or getting to the line) especially after the stretch where Augsburg opened a double digit lead. I've seen St Thomas live early this year and think they are a better team than their record for whatever that's worth. I would agree with the comments that argue that there are many good teams out there and few if any dominating ones; teams that can play poorly and still win. Both of these teams seem to have what it takes to make a post season run but of course they have to get there first...and they have to play well to do that. It's actually a very interesting year.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: me on January 09, 2018, 11:59:33 PM
Augsburg was up like 18 with 3 to go on the road. That's dominating.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: me on January 12, 2018, 09:26:31 PM
Quote from: me on January 08, 2018, 07:56:53 PM
Oh heck I might as well post it

1. Whitman
2. Wittenberg
3. St. John's
4. Augustana
5. York
6. John Carroll
7. Baldwin Wallace
8. UW-River Falls
9. Washington U
10. UW-Whitewater
11. Whitworth
12. Swarthmore
13. UW-Platteville
14. Wartburg
15. Augsburg
16. Illinois Wesleyan
17. Ohio Wesleyan
18. Marietta
19. UW-Oshkosh
20. MIT
Can I just stop here?
21. Hamilton
22. Emory & Henry
23. Wheaton IL
24. Franklin & Marshall
25. LeTourneau I think (I skipped a number, had to add 25 on later)

I didn't really want to vote for any of the last 5. If I had voted for teams other than these they would have been more OAC, CCIW, WIAC, MIAC...so more yowling from people, probably. So I tried to reward good starts from teams that at least tried to schedule well.

Feeling pretty good about this other than not having ranked Ohio Northern out of fear of outrage. Won't make that mistake again.

Also feeling good about my lack of belief in the NESCAC and Williams in particular. Don't even have Williams or Wesleyan in my 10 on deck teams now.

Moved Wheaton into my top 10 pending their result this weekend. If they can get Augie and North Central both on the road, I say it's warranted.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: me on January 14, 2018, 02:52:17 PM
1. Whitman
2. Wittenberg
3. St. John's
4. York
5. John Carroll
6. UW-Whitewater
7. Washington U
8. Whitworth
9. UW-Oshkosh
10. Baldwin Wallace
11. Illinois Wesleyan
12. Wheaton
13. UW-River Falls
14. Marietta
15. UW-Platteville
16. Ohio Northern
17. Augustana
18. Hamilton
19. MIT
20. Augsburg
21. Swarthmore
22. Emory & Henry
23. LeTourneau
24. Franklin & Marshall
25. North Central
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Smitty Oom on January 15, 2018, 02:53:21 PM
Week 2 - Jan 15th   
1   Whitman
2   Yorkpa
3   Wittenberg
4   St. John's
5   Hamilton
6   UW-Whitewater
7   Washington U.
8   UW-River Falls
9   UW-Oshkosh
10   Swarthmore
11   MIT
12   Middlebury
13   Williams
14   Eastern Connecticut
15   Emory
16   IWU
17   Wesleyan
18   Augustana
19   Whitworth
20   John Carroll
21   Baldwin Wallace
22   Emory & Henry
23   Franklin and Marshall
24   Platteville
25   Wheaton (Ill)
ORV   Wooster
ORV   Nichols (Until Burton comes back I'm not as confident)
ORV   Marietta
ORV   Tufts
ORV   Loras

Some Quick Hitters:

Admittedly too high on Whitworth last week due to the nice record. Two losses are to good teams but watching the gmae against Whitman wasn't super impressed with them.

Probably too high on NWU last week as well. I still think Nebraska Wesleyan is a very good team but the loss at Loras in OT made me want a couple more solid IIAC wins before they regain a vote for my poll. Loras had a couple good results. Made ORV for me this week.

Wittenberg and Hamilton made a big jump. To still be undefeated at this point and with both team getting solid conference wins this week I felt it necessary to jump them towards the top. Both look more and more like real contenders each week.

The top 3 WIAC teams are impossible to rank. I think UWW is a slight cut above the rest but can't argue against any way you slice it.

Augustana takes a little bit of a dive in my ranks. Haven't watched any games this year but when looking at scores just not too impressed. I tried to distance the amazing run in last year NCAAs to realize they were a bottom tier top 25 team last year, and might be the same this year as well. Another CCIW team makes an appearance for me with the Wheaton Franics' coming in at 25 for me. Love watching Aston play.

Middlebury rights the ship this week with 3 solid wins. They bumped back up a couple spots for me. Still enjoy watching this team play and will be tough in Feb/March.

Lastly, there are a ton of solid teams in Ohio in the OAC and NCAC. Dropped OWU out of top 25, still a talented roster. BWU, JCU, ONU, Wooster and Marietta are all very solid teams that I think are great candidates to fill out the bottom half of a top 25.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: me on January 15, 2018, 06:12:01 PM
Thought I would be giving the OAC more credit than anyone but nope.

Massey has JCU 5, Marietta 6, Ohio Northern 16, Baldwin Wallace 17.

Top 4 in WIAC 7, 9, 10, 12.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: AndOne on January 15, 2018, 06:47:07 PM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on January 15, 2018, 02:53:21 PM
Week 2 - Jan 15th   
1   Whitman
2   Yorkpa
3   Wittenberg
4   St. John's
5   Hamilton
6   UW-Whitewater
7   Washington U.
8   UW-River Falls
9   UW-Oshkosh
10   Swarthmore
11   MIT
12   Middlebury
13   Williams
14   Eastern Connecticut
15   Emory
16   IWU
17   Wesleyan
18   Augustana
19   Whitworth
20   John Carroll
21   Baldwin Wallace
22   Emory & Henry
23   Franklin and Marshall
24   Platteville
25   Wheaton (Ill)
ORV   Wooster
ORV   Nichols (Until Burton comes back I'm not as confident)
ORV   Marietta
ORV   Tufts
ORV   Loras

Some Quick Hitters:

Admittedly too high on Whitworth last week due to the nice record. Two losses are to good teams but watching the gmae against Whitman wasn't super impressed with them.

Probably too high on NWU last week as well. I still think Nebraska Wesleyan is a very good team but the loss at Loras in OT made me want a couple more solid IIAC wins before they regain a vote for my poll. Loras had a couple good results. Made ORV for me this week.

Wittenberg and Hamilton made a big jump. To still be undefeated at this point and with both team getting solid conference wins this week I felt it necessary to jump them towards the top. Both look more and more like real contenders each week.

The top 3 WIAC teams are impossible to rank. I think UWW is a slight cut above the rest but can't argue against any way you slice it.

Augustana takes a little bit of a dive in my ranks. Haven't watched any games this year but when looking at scores just not too impressed. I tried to distance the amazing run in last year NCAAs to realize they were a bottom tier top 25 team last year, and might be the same this year as well. Another CCIW team makes an appearance for me with the Wheaton Franics' coming in at 25 for me. Love watching Aston play.

Middlebury rights the ship this week with 3 solid wins. They bumped back up a couple spots for me. Still enjoy watching this team play and will be tough in Feb/March.

Lastly, there are a ton of solid teams in Ohio in the OAC and NCAC. Dropped OWU out of top 25, still a talented roster. BWU, JCU, ONU, Wooster and Marietta are all very solid teams that I think are great candidates to fill out the bottom half of a top 25.

Massey has North Central ranked 23rd, ahead of both IWU and Wheaton.
You may be impressed with Aston Francis, and rightly so. Loving to see him play is understandable. But one superstar does not necessarily mean his team is Top 25 material. And, you may be unaware, but North Central beat the Wheaties by 9 Saturday night. In that game, 2 starters from the Wheaton team failed to score a single point. Only two players scored in double figures. One of those two had 11 points.
NCC lost it's first game of the year to a team they shouldn't have. Many other teams have losses that should not have happened. Their other losses are to teams you have ranked 17th, 18th, and 19th.
Not considering the Cardinals should be considered an oversight at this point. 🤔
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Smitty Oom on January 15, 2018, 07:11:54 PM
Quote from: AndOne on January 15, 2018, 06:47:07 PM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on January 15, 2018, 02:53:21 PM
Week 2 - Jan 15th   
1   Whitman
2   Yorkpa
3   Wittenberg
4   St. John's
5   Hamilton
6   UW-Whitewater
7   Washington U.
8   UW-River Falls
9   UW-Oshkosh
10   Swarthmore
11   MIT
12   Middlebury
13   Williams
14   Eastern Connecticut
15   Emory
16   IWU
17   Wesleyan
18   Augustana
19   Whitworth
20   John Carroll
21   Baldwin Wallace
22   Emory & Henry
23   Franklin and Marshall
24   Platteville
25   Wheaton (Ill)
ORV   Wooster
ORV   Nichols (Until Burton comes back I'm not as confident)
ORV   Marietta
ORV   Tufts
ORV   Loras

Some Quick Hitters:

Admittedly too high on Whitworth last week due to the nice record. Two losses are to good teams but watching the gmae against Whitman wasn't super impressed with them.

Probably too high on NWU last week as well. I still think Nebraska Wesleyan is a very good team but the loss at Loras in OT made me want a couple more solid IIAC wins before they regain a vote for my poll. Loras had a couple good results. Made ORV for me this week.

Wittenberg and Hamilton made a big jump. To still be undefeated at this point and with both team getting solid conference wins this week I felt it necessary to jump them towards the top. Both look more and more like real contenders each week.

The top 3 WIAC teams are impossible to rank. I think UWW is a slight cut above the rest but can't argue against any way you slice it.

Augustana takes a little bit of a dive in my ranks. Haven't watched any games this year but when looking at scores just not too impressed. I tried to distance the amazing run in last year NCAAs to realize they were a bottom tier top 25 team last year, and might be the same this year as well. Another CCIW team makes an appearance for me with the Wheaton Franics' coming in at 25 for me. Love watching Aston play.

Middlebury rights the ship this week with 3 solid wins. They bumped back up a couple spots for me. Still enjoy watching this team play and will be tough in Feb/March.

Lastly, there are a ton of solid teams in Ohio in the OAC and NCAC. Dropped OWU out of top 25, still a talented roster. BWU, JCU, ONU, Wooster and Marietta are all very solid teams that I think are great candidates to fill out the bottom half of a top 25.

Massey has North Central ranked 23rd, ahead of both IWU and Wheaton.
You may be impressed with Aston Francis, and rightly so. Loving to see him play is understandable. But one superstar does not necessarily mean his team is Top 25 material. And, you may be unaware, but North Central beat the Wheaties by 9 Saturday night. In that game, 2 starters from the Wheaton team failed to score a single point. Only two players scored in double figures. One of those two had 11 points.
NCC lost it's first game of the year to a team they shouldn't have. Many other teams have losses that should not have happened. Their other losses are to teams you have ranked 17th, 18th, and 19th.
Not considering the Cardinals should be considered an oversight at this point. 🤔

I was quite aware of that result, and it was home for your Cards if I am not mistaken. If the other starters are so bad I feel like it should have been a bigger beat down that just 9 points.  ??? ???

NCC is playing better as of recently and I agree, I probably should have had them on the personal ORV category at least. But Wheaton did beat Whitworth in WA while NCC lost to Whitworth on a neutral floor. Granted, a Head-to-Head is probably more telling then the transitive property... But it is just one point, as I had them ranked 25.

Wheaton has a Massey rating of 29, only 6 behind NCC. They have a SOS of 26 while NCC SOS is 35. I would say its pretty close.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: me on January 15, 2018, 07:16:21 PM
As someone that voted for North Central, I agree with this. They impressed me with their inside-outside game. Wheaton looked like a team with a great player and one that might even be too good for some of his teammates.

They both played Whitworth and Wheaton won and North Central didn't. Wheaton beat Baldwin Wallace and North Central lost to a lower-caliber team from the same league in Heidelberg (though Heidelberg has played just about everyone close), and Wheaton won at Augustana and North Central lost to Augustana at home.

It could be true that North Central ends the year the better team. But Wheaton has shown more so far, this past weekend notwithstanding.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: AndOne on January 15, 2018, 07:50:03 PM
It is pretty close.
I guess my follow-up question would be who is the better team right now?
The Cardinals have won 8 in a row.  ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: me on January 15, 2018, 11:35:15 PM
Did anyone else vote?
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 15, 2018, 11:47:22 PM
Quote from: me on January 15, 2018, 11:35:15 PM
Did anyone else vote?

Most voters send a PM to the poll compiler, rather than posting a ballot here (which could potentially effect other voters).  We like the Australian secret ballot! ;D  (Though maybe you don't yet have enough posts to have PM rights?  Can't recall the rules on that.)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 16, 2018, 12:06:49 AM
Quote from: me on January 15, 2018, 11:35:15 PM
Did anyone else vote?
We're at 8 ballots so far... I sent a PM a little bit ago to the remaining 3 as a reminder.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: me on January 16, 2018, 12:24:37 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 15, 2018, 11:47:22 PM
Quote from: me on January 15, 2018, 11:35:15 PM
Did anyone else vote?

Most voters send a PM to the poll compiler, rather than posting a ballot here (which could potentially effect other voters).  We like the Australian secret ballot! ;D  (Though maybe you don't yet have enough posts to have PM rights?  Can't recall the rules on that.)

Sorry, thought it was optional. Plus I figured it would start conversation...that has not really happened. Hopefully that means everything i did made sense haha.

I think this poll is gonna end up being better than the real one, though.

Ryan and Dave's conversation on Hoopsville could influence voters too.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: warriorcat on January 16, 2018, 08:07:15 AM
I tried to send my top 25 to FCGrizzilies by both pm and regular e mail.  It apparently did not get there.  Can you email me the correct address?  Hundleyk1954@gmail.com ?  Thank you.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Smitty Oom on January 16, 2018, 08:49:45 AM
Quote from: me on January 16, 2018, 12:24:37 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 15, 2018, 11:47:22 PM
Quote from: me on January 15, 2018, 11:35:15 PM
Did anyone else vote?

Most voters send a PM to the poll compiler, rather than posting a ballot here (which could potentially effect other voters).  We like the Australian secret ballot! ;D  (Though maybe you don't yet have enough posts to have PM rights?  Can't recall the rules on that.)

Sorry, thought it was optional. Plus I figured it would start conversation...that has not really happened. Hopefully that means everything i did made sense haha.

I think this poll is gonna end up being better than the real one, though.

Ryan and Dave's conversation on Hoopsville could influence voters too.

I like posting it to start conversation as well. If you want me to pm it to Grizz instead I will do that for sure, just let me know.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 16, 2018, 09:19:55 AM
I don't have a problem with revealing your ballot, but it's preferable to do it after the poll is posted which my goal is Tuesday nights.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Smitty Oom on January 16, 2018, 10:27:54 AM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 16, 2018, 09:19:55 AM
I don't have a problem with revealing your ballot, but it's preferable to do it after the poll is posted which my goal is Tuesday nights.

Okay I will do that instead!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 16, 2018, 12:27:03 PM
Good news... I have all the ballots so you get the poll a bit early.


2017-18 TOP 25 FAN POLL (Jan 8-14)

Rank
Team
Pts
Prev
1)
Whitman (10)
274
1
2)
Wittenberg
238
T5
3)
St John's
227
4
4)
UW-Whitewater
222
T5
5)
York (PA)
207
3
6)
WashU
192
10
7)
UW-Oshkosh
187
T12
8)
MIT (1)
176
11
9)
Hamilton
169
T12
10)
UW-River Falls
149
8
11)
Augustana
146
2
12)
John Carroll
133
17
13)
Swarthmore
124
7
14)
Illinois Wesleyan
108
25
15)
Whitworth
104
9
16)
Williams
103
T15
17)
Marietta
92
19
18)
Middlebury
82
18
19)
Lycoming
81
NR
20)
Emory
78
23
21)
Wesleyan
65
T15
22)
E Connecticut
46
NR
23)
Franklin & Marshall
43
NR
24)
Baldwin Wallace
39
20
T25)
Emory & Henry
38
NR
T25)
Ohio Wesleyan
38
14
T25)
UW-Platteville
38
22

Dropped Out: #21 Nebraska Wesleyan; #24 Skidmore

Also Receiving Votes: Ohio Northern 36, Wheaton (IL) 23, North Central (IL) 22, Nebraska Wesleyan 19, Hobart 8, Wartburg 8, Augsburg 7, New Jersey City 7, Nichols 7, Amherst 6, Tufts 6, Ramapo 5, Rochester 5, Juniata 4, LeTourneau 4, St Norbert 4, Bethel 2, Gwynedd Mercy 1, Maryville 1, Randolph-Macon 1

Voters: FCGrizzliesGrad, KnightSlappy, me, Mr. Ypsi, NCF, Ryan Scott, smedindy, Smitty Oom, TheOsprey, warriorcat, and WUH
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: WUPHF on January 16, 2018, 01:43:55 PM
At one point while completing my poll, I had a thought that no one else would rank MIT as highly as I did.  Turns out I was wrong.  Not my No. 1 vote.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 16, 2018, 02:06:04 PM
Looks like I'm the only one in on Ramapo. I don't mind being an outlier. Besides, the bottom 7-8 spots were a challenge....
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: me on January 16, 2018, 07:15:08 PM
With Letourneau (LeTourneau?) getting another vote from somewhere, I don't think I'm alone on anyone anymore.

Still think the eastern teams are ranked too high, but at least it's closer.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 17, 2018, 02:45:06 AM
I think I've settled on a format to include a bit of extra data for the poll. A bit of spreadsheet magic and I've got something simple I can post quickly (and not exceed the character limit). High is the highest rank a ballot had them, low is the lowest rank someone had them, and ballots is how many ballots did the team appear on.

Rank
Team
High
Low
Ballots
1)
Whitman
1
2
11
2)
Wittenberg
2
9
11
3)
St John's
2
12
11
4)
UW-Whitewater
3
12
11
5)
York (PA)
2
NR
9
6)
WashU
3
NR
10
7)
UW-Oshkosh
4
21
11
8)
MIT
1
19
11
9)
Hamilton
4
18
11
10)
UW-River Falls
7
NR
10
11)
Augustana
5
24
11
12)
John Carroll
3
NR
10
13)
Swarthmore
10
21
11
14)
Illinois Wesleyan
8
NR
9
15)
Whitworth
7
NR
9
16)
Williams
7
NR
9
17)
Marietta
8
NR
9
18)
Middlebury
11
NR
7
19)
Lycoming
10
NR
8
20)
Emory
10
NR
7
21)
Wesleyan
14
NR
9
22)
E Connecticut
10
NR
7
23)
Franklin & Marshall
9
NR
7
24)
Baldwin Wallace
10
NR
6
T25)
Emory & Henry
6
NR
5
T25)
Ohio Wesleyan
4
NR
3
T25)
UW-Platteville
6
NR
5
28)
Ohio Northern
11
NR
5
29)
Wheaton (IL)
12
NR
5
30)
North Central (IL)
17
NR
5
31)
Nebraska Wesleyan
7
NR
1
T32)
Hobart
18
NR
1
T32)
Wartburg
21
NR
2
T34)
Augsburg
20
NR
2
T34)
New Jersey City
21
NR
2
T34)
Nichols
19
NR
1
T37)
Amherst
20
NR
1
T37)
Tufts
20
NR
1
T39)
Ramapo
21
NR
1
T39)
Rochester
22
NR
2
T41)
Juniata
22
NR
1
T41)
LeTourneau
23
NR
2
T41)
St Norbert
22
NR
1
44)
Bethel
24
NR
1
T45)
Gwynedd Mercy
25
NR
1
T45)
Maryville
25
NR
1
T45)
Randolph-Macon
25
NR
1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: me on January 17, 2018, 08:35:10 AM
This is certainly illuminating. Hard to believe how few teams are on all ballots.

I think I would like 4 other ballots besides mine :)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Smitty Oom on January 17, 2018, 08:37:01 AM
At this point in the season, Im curious on the argument to leave York PA off of the top 25 ballot.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 17, 2018, 12:05:45 PM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on January 17, 2018, 08:37:01 AM
At this point in the season, Im curious on the argument to leave York PA off of the top 25 ballot.

I mean, they hold The BeltTM and all.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Smitty Oom on January 17, 2018, 12:27:15 PM
Quote from: smedindy on January 17, 2018, 12:05:45 PM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on January 17, 2018, 08:37:01 AM
At this point in the season, Im curious on the argument to leave York PA off of the top 25 ballot.

I mean, they hold The BeltTM and all.

Which boosts any team holding The BeltTM an automatic National Championship contender.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 17, 2018, 01:13:54 PM
Holding The BeltTM is worth at least one first place vote!

Good to see this up and running again. Sorry I'm not participating, but good to follow anyway.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 17, 2018, 02:32:44 PM
I could not possibly vote for a team holding The BeltTM. Even a first place vote would be like casting swine before pearls.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Smitty Oom on January 20, 2018, 02:15:13 PM
Excited to make a new top 25 this week. Obviously there is more information after a big week of games but reflecting on my poll feel like I made a few mistakes. What I think will probably be proved wrong with all of todays action... but thats what makes it fun!!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: me on January 20, 2018, 02:46:49 PM
It's the teams that made the mistakes. :)

I have to say the way things are falling may mess up a lot of other rankings more than they do mine. I wasn't putting these eastern teams that are getting beat very high (or at all).

The power is all in the middle of the country (and Washington state) this year.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 22, 2018, 08:43:03 PM
I'm just waiting on one ballot and a correction on another (and I've already received a correction from a different ballot because of duplication). Hopefully they'll be in by tomorrow afternoon or so.
Only 7 teams on every ballot at the moment and 47 teams with a vote.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 23, 2018, 10:41:59 AM
Ok... folks really need to double check their ballots before submitting. I think this week is a record for the basketball or football polls with 3 separate ballots having duplicated a team. ???


2017-18 TOP 25 FAN POLL (Jan 15-21)
Rank
Team
Record
Pts
Prev
1)
Whitman (10)
17-0
273
1
2)
Wittenberg
17-0
253
2
3)
St John's
14-1
240
3
4)
WashU
14-2
236
6
5)
York (PA)
16-1
200
5
6)
Augustana
14-3
183
11
7)
Illinois Wesleyan
14-3
151
14
T8)
Swarthmore
15-2
148
13
T8)
Whitworth
15-2
148
15
10)
UW-Whitewater
14-3
145
4
11)
MIT (1)
15-2
131
8
12)
Wesleyan
13-3
115
21
13)
Middlebury
14-3
110
18
14)
Emory
14-2
106
20
15)
Lycoming
17-1
94
19
16)
John Carroll
14-3
92
12
17)
Williams
13-4
88
16
18)
Hamilton
15-1
85
9
19)
UW-River Falls
12-4
83
10
T20)
Baldwin Wallace
14-3
82
24
T20)
E Connecticut
15-2
82
22
22)
UW-Stevens Point
12-5
79
NR
23)
Emory & Henry
16-1
78
T25
24)
Wheaton (IL)
13-4
49
NR
25)
UW-Platteville
14-3
47
T25

Dropped Out: #7 UW-Oshkosh, #17 Marietta; #23 Franklin & Marshall; #T25 Ohio Wesleyan

Also Receiving Votes: UW-Oshkosh 46, Marietta 45, Nebraska Wesleyan 24, Rochester 24, Franklin & Marshall 21, Ohio Wesleyan 19, Ohio Northern 18, Amherst 12, New Jersey City 10, Augsburg 9, Ramapo 9, North Central (IL) 8, Hobart 6, Gwynedd Mercy 5, LeTourneau 5, Bethel 4, Maryville 3, Nichols 3, Loras 2, Salem St 2, Cabrini 1, Sul Ross St 1

Voters: FCGrizzliesGrad, KnightSlappy, me, Mr. Ypsi, NCF, Ryan Scott, smedindy, Smitty Oom, TheOsprey, warriorcat, and WUH
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 23, 2018, 10:45:54 AM
 
Rank
Team
High
Low
Ballots
1)
Whitman
1
3
11
2)
Wittenberg
2
6
11
3)
St John's
2
12
11
4)
WashU
2
16
11
5)
York (PA)
3
NR
10
6)
Augustana
4
18
11
7)
Illinois Wesleyan
7
NR
10
T8)
Swarthmore
6
25
11
T8)
Whitworth
5
NR
9
10)
UW-Whitewater
5
24
11
11)
MIT
1
NR
10
12)
Wesleyan
9
NR
9
13)
Middlebury
7
NR
8
14)
Emory
7
NR
9
15)
Lycoming
6
NR
9
16)
John Carroll
2
NR
9
17)
Williams
7
NR
8
18)
Hamilton
5
NR
9
19)
UW-River Falls
10
NR
9
T20)
Baldwin Wallace
7
NR
10
T20)
E Connecticut
12
NR
9
22)
UW-Stevens Point
7
NR
7
23)
Emory & Henry
5
NR
9
24)
Wheaton (IL)
12
NR
7
25)
UW-Platteville
8
NR
4
26)
UW-Oshkosh
12
NR
6
27)
Marietta
9
NR
7
T28)
Nebraska Wesleyan
4
NR
2
T28)
Rochester
20
NR
5
30)
Franklin & Marshall
15
NR
2
31)
Ohio Wesleyan
7
NR
1
32)
Ohio Northern
15
NR
2
33)
Amherst
14
NR
1
34)
New Jersey City
19
NR
2
T35)
Augsburg
18
NR
2
T35)
Ramapo
19
NR
2
37)
North Central (IL)
18
NR
1
38)
Hobart
20
NR
1
T39)
Gwynedd Mercy
21
NR
1
T39)
LeTourneau
21
NR
1
41)
Bethel
22
NR
1
T42)
Maryville
23
NR
1
T42)
Nichols
23
NR
1
T44)
Loras
24
NR
1
T44)
Salem St
24
NR
1
T46)
Cabrini
25
NR
1
T46)
Sul Ross St
25
NR
1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 23, 2018, 01:04:41 PM
UWSP #7???  :o
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: WUPHF on January 23, 2018, 07:57:43 PM
Appreciate the high and low ranking.

Look at all those teams with a low of NR.  This has been a season and we still have a long way to go.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on January 24, 2018, 07:33:53 PM
"You think you know, but you don't know...."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHipzGL4dwM
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 29, 2018, 11:33:00 PM
I think we may have lost a voter as me hasn't been on in a week and can't receive PMs. I'm guessing probably not a voluntary absence. Should he come back I'll add his ballot to the results


2017-18 TOP 25 FAN POLL (Jan 22-28)

Rank
Team
Record
Pts
Prev
1)
Whitman (8)
19-0
247
1
2)
Wittenberg
19-0
231
2
3)
St John's
16-1
227
3
4)
Washington U (1)
16-2
224
4
T5)
Illinois Wesleyan
16-3
167
7
T5)
MIT (1)
17-2
167
11
7)
Middlebury
15-3
164
13
8)
Swarthmore
17-2
142
T8
9)
Whitworth
17-2
136
T8
10)
York (PA)
17-2
128
5
11)
UW-Platteville
16-3
124
25
12)
Augustana
15-4
121
6
13)
Emory & Henry
18-1
113
23
14)
E Connecticut
17-2
109
T20
15)
Emory
15-3
102
14
16)
UW-Oshkosh
15-4
95
NR
17)
Williams
15-4
91
17
18)
Wesleyan
16-4
68
12
19)
Marietta
15-4
64
NR
20)
UW-Whitewater
15-4
63
10
T21)
Hamilton
17-2
62
18
T21)
Lycoming
18-2
62
15
23)
John Carroll
15-4
56
16
24)
UW-Stevens Point
13-6
42
22
25)
UW-River Falls
13-5
37
19
Dropped Out: #T20 Baldwin-Wallace; #24 Wheaton (IL)

Also Receiving Votes: Franklin & Marshall 29, Nebraska Wesleyan 22, Bethel 17, Ohio Wesleyan 17, Wooster 15, Amherst 14, Hobart 13, North Central (IL) 12, Gwynedd Mercy 11, Augsburg 9, New Jersey City 9, Ohio Northern 9, Baldwin Wallace 7, Johns Hopkins 5, Salem St 5, Hanover 4, Nichols 3, Maryville 2, Occidental 2, Plattsburgh St 2, Ramapo 1

Voters: FCGrizzliesGrad, KnightSlappy, Mr. Ypsi, NCF, Ryan Scott, smedindy, Smitty Oom, TheOsprey, warriorcat, and WUH
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on January 29, 2018, 11:35:38 PM
 
Rank
Team
High
Low
Ballots
1)
Whitman
1
3
10
2)
Wittenberg
2
5
10
3)
St John's
2
4
10
4)
WashU
1
9
10
T5)
Illinois Wesleyan
5
19
10
T5)
MIT
1
20
10
7)
Middlebury
5
23
10
8)
Swarthmore
5
25
10
9)
Whitworth
5
NR
8
10)
York (PA)
6
NR
9
11)
UW-Platteville
6
19
10
12)
Augustana
8
NR
9
13)
Emory & Henry
4
NR
9
14)
E Connecticut
9
23
10
15)
Emory
10
NR
9
16)
UW-Oshkosh
6
NR
9
17)
Williams
7
NR
7
18)
Wesleyan
13
NR
9
19)
Marietta
8
25
10
20)
UW-Whitewater
10
NR
7
T21)
Hamilton
8
NR
7
T21)
Lycoming
6
NR
6
23)
John Carroll
3
NR
5
24)
UW-Stevens Point
13
NR
6
25)
UW-River Falls
15
NR
5
26)
Franklin & Marshall
13
NR
3
27)
Nebraska Wesleyan
7
NR
2
T28)
Bethel
9
NR
1
T28)
Ohio Wesleyan
11
NR
2
30)
Wooster
20
NR
4
31)
Amherst
12
NR
1
32)
Hobart
20
NR
4
33)
North Central (IL)
15
NR
2
34)
Gwynedd Mercy
15
NR
1
T35)
Augsburg
17
NR
1
T35)
New Jersey City
19
NR
2
T35)
Ohio Northern
17
NR
1
38)
Baldwin Wallace
21
NR
2
T39)
Johns Hopkins
21
NR
1
T39)
Salem St
21
NR
1
41)
Hanover
22
NR
1
42)
Nichols
23
NR
1
T43)
Maryville
24
NR
1
T43)
Occidental
25
NR
2
T43)
Plattsburgh St
24
NR
1
46)
Ramapo
25
NR
1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 30, 2018, 12:20:37 AM
A few anomalies:  Someone had JCU at #3??!!  Drug-testing may be in order! ;D  I was also surprised someone left Augie off their ballot entirely (though I almost did the same by accident - they needed to drop down quite a ways, then I forgot to insert them at all until just before I hit 'post') - they are NOT top ten (like the 'official' poll still says), but they are quite good (perhaps an accidental omission?).  I'm glad I wasn't the only one to give Oxy a #25 vote; but since then I've seen HOW low their SOS is - not sure I will do it again. ;)  I have serious doubts that my IWU Titans are really #5 (though I myself ranked them there 'cause I couldn't find a better alternative); every other team I tried to put there seemed an even worse choice (with Midd being my closest other).  I felt like d-mac: I like my first four (which are the first four of the poll, though I reversed 3 and 4), then wanted to skip to 10 - but SOMEONE has to be #5. ::)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Smitty Oom on January 30, 2018, 10:30:52 AM
Here is my ballot. Actually, my ballot is pretty consistent with the posters poll.

Week 4 - Jan 29th   
1   Whitman
2   Wittenberg
3   Washington U.
4   St. John's
5   Swarthmore
6   Middlebury
7   IWU
8   York (PA)
9   Eastern CT
10   Emory
11   Emory & Henry
12   UW-Platteville
13   MIT
14   Whitworth
15   Williams
16   Augustana
17   Hamilton
18   UW-Oshkosh
19   Wesleyan
20   UW-Stevens Point
21   John Carroll
22   Marietta
23   Wooster
24   Maryville (TN)
25   Hobart
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 30, 2018, 10:57:41 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 30, 2018, 12:20:37 AM
A few anomalies:  Someone had JCU at #3??!!  Drug-testing may be in order! ;D  I was also surprised someone left Augie off their ballot entirely (though I almost did the same by accident - they needed to drop down quite a ways, then I forgot to insert them at all until just before I hit 'post') - they are NOT top ten (like the 'official' poll still says), but they are quite good (perhaps an accidental omission?).  I'm glad I wasn't the only one to give Oxy a #25 vote; but since then I've seen HOW low their SOS is - not sure I will do it again. ;)  I have serious doubts that my IWU Titans are really #5 (though I myself ranked them there 'cause I couldn't find a better alternative); every other team I tried to put there seemed an even worse choice (with Midd being my closest other).  I felt like d-mac: I like my first four (which are the first four of the poll, though I reversed 3 and 4), then wanted to skip to 10 - but SOMEONE has to be #5. ::)

I'd ask this: is it entirely clear that Yorkpa is better than John Carroll? I don't think so.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 30, 2018, 12:37:06 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 30, 2018, 12:20:37 AM
A few anomalies:  Someone had JCU at #3??!!  Drug-testing may be in order! ;D  I was also surprised someone left Augie off their ballot entirely (though I almost did the same by accident - they needed to drop down quite a ways, then I forgot to insert them at all until just before I hit 'post') - they are NOT top ten (like the 'official' poll still says), but they are quite good (perhaps an accidental omission?).  I'm glad I wasn't the only one to give Oxy a #25 vote; but since then I've seen HOW low their SOS is - not sure I will do it again. ;)  I have serious doubts that my IWU Titans are really #5 (though I myself ranked them there 'cause I couldn't find a better alternative); every other team I tried to put there seemed an even worse choice (with Midd being my closest other).  I felt like d-mac: I like my first four (which are the first four of the poll, though I reversed 3 and 4), then wanted to skip to 10 - but SOMEONE has to be #5. ::)

I'm not considering Oxy until they play at CMS this week.  Despite the terrible start, CMS really seems to have righted the ship and are playing better than anyone else in the conference right now.  I wouldn't pick Oxy in that game, although they're clearly capable of winning.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 30, 2018, 07:18:09 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 30, 2018, 10:57:41 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 30, 2018, 12:20:37 AM
A few anomalies:  Someone had JCU at #3??!!  Drug-testing may be in order! ;D  I was also surprised someone left Augie off their ballot entirely (though I almost did the same by accident - they needed to drop down quite a ways, then I forgot to insert them at all until just before I hit 'post') - they are NOT top ten (like the 'official' poll still says), but they are quite good (perhaps an accidental omission?).  I'm glad I wasn't the only one to give Oxy a #25 vote; but since then I've seen HOW low their SOS is - not sure I will do it again. ;)  I have serious doubts that my IWU Titans are really #5 (though I myself ranked them there 'cause I couldn't find a better alternative); every other team I tried to put there seemed an even worse choice (with Midd being my closest other).  I felt like d-mac: I like my first four (which are the first four of the poll, though I reversed 3 and 4), then wanted to skip to 10 - but SOMEONE has to be #5. ::)

I'd ask this: is it entirely clear that Yorkpa is better than John Carroll? I don't think so.

Moot point - Yorkpa's highest ranking was #6 (I had them at #15).  I wasn't questioning JCU being on a voter's ballot (though they weren't on mine), but NUMBER THREE??!! :o
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 30, 2018, 07:21:17 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 30, 2018, 12:37:06 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 30, 2018, 12:20:37 AM
A few anomalies:  Someone had JCU at #3??!!  Drug-testing may be in order! ;D  I was also surprised someone left Augie off their ballot entirely (though I almost did the same by accident - they needed to drop down quite a ways, then I forgot to insert them at all until just before I hit 'post') - they are NOT top ten (like the 'official' poll still says), but they are quite good (perhaps an accidental omission?).  I'm glad I wasn't the only one to give Oxy a #25 vote; but since then I've seen HOW low their SOS is - not sure I will do it again. ;)  I have serious doubts that my IWU Titans are really #5 (though I myself ranked them there 'cause I couldn't find a better alternative); every other team I tried to put there seemed an even worse choice (with Midd being my closest other).  I felt like d-mac: I like my first four (which are the first four of the poll, though I reversed 3 and 4), then wanted to skip to 10 - but SOMEONE has to be #5. ::)

I'm not considering Oxy until they play at CMS this week.  Despite the terrible start, CMS really seems to have righted the ship and are playing better than anyone else in the conference right now.  I wouldn't pick Oxy in that game, although they're clearly capable of winning.

Pretty much my thoughts.  IF they beat CMS, they probably stay on my ballot; lose and they're definitely gone.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 30, 2018, 09:47:43 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 30, 2018, 07:18:09 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 30, 2018, 10:57:41 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 30, 2018, 12:20:37 AM
A few anomalies:  Someone had JCU at #3??!!  Drug-testing may be in order! ;D  I was also surprised someone left Augie off their ballot entirely (though I almost did the same by accident - they needed to drop down quite a ways, then I forgot to insert them at all until just before I hit 'post') - they are NOT top ten (like the 'official' poll still says), but they are quite good (perhaps an accidental omission?).  I'm glad I wasn't the only one to give Oxy a #25 vote; but since then I've seen HOW low their SOS is - not sure I will do it again. ;)  I have serious doubts that my IWU Titans are really #5 (though I myself ranked them there 'cause I couldn't find a better alternative); every other team I tried to put there seemed an even worse choice (with Midd being my closest other).  I felt like d-mac: I like my first four (which are the first four of the poll, though I reversed 3 and 4), then wanted to skip to 10 - but SOMEONE has to be #5. ::)

I'd ask this: is it entirely clear that Yorkpa is better than John Carroll? I don't think so.

Moot point - Yorkpa's highest ranking was #6 (I had them at #15).  I wasn't questioning JCU being on a voter's ballot (though they weren't on mine), but NUMBER THREE??!! :o

I'm saying if you're not going to question Yorkpa at 6, why would you question JCU at 3? Doesn't seem that that huge a distinction to me is all. In both cases some feel they're not ranked and some feel they're among the best in D3.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 30, 2018, 10:06:31 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 30, 2018, 09:47:43 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 30, 2018, 07:18:09 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 30, 2018, 10:57:41 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 30, 2018, 12:20:37 AM
A few anomalies:  Someone had JCU at #3??!!  Drug-testing may be in order! ;D  I was also surprised someone left Augie off their ballot entirely (though I almost did the same by accident - they needed to drop down quite a ways, then I forgot to insert them at all until just before I hit 'post') - they are NOT top ten (like the 'official' poll still says), but they are quite good (perhaps an accidental omission?).  I'm glad I wasn't the only one to give Oxy a #25 vote; but since then I've seen HOW low their SOS is - not sure I will do it again. ;)  I have serious doubts that my IWU Titans are really #5 (though I myself ranked them there 'cause I couldn't find a better alternative); every other team I tried to put there seemed an even worse choice (with Midd being my closest other).  I felt like d-mac: I like my first four (which are the first four of the poll, though I reversed 3 and 4), then wanted to skip to 10 - but SOMEONE has to be #5. ::)

I'd ask this: is it entirely clear that Yorkpa is better than John Carroll? I don't think so.

Moot point - Yorkpa's highest ranking was #6 (I had them at #15).  I wasn't questioning JCU being on a voter's ballot (though they weren't on mine), but NUMBER THREE??!! :o

I'm saying if you're not going to question Yorkpa at 6, why would you question JCU at 3? Doesn't seem that that huge a distinction to me is all. In both cases some feel they're not ranked and some feel they're among the best in D3.

Point noted, but #3 puts JCU above what I consider (for THIS week, anyway!) two of the almost certain top four teams.  #6 just puts Yorkpa near the top of the chaos from 5 on down - way too high for my taste, but at least not above SJU, WashU or whomever.  IMO, there IS a huge distinction between #3 and #6, because (with current data) there is a clear break between #4 and #5.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 06, 2018, 05:44:08 PM
Down a voter this week. Hopefully back to a full 10 next time.

2017-18 TOP 25 FAN POLL (Jan 9-Feb 4)
Rank
Team
Record
Pts
Prev
1)
Whitman (9)
21-0
225
1
2)
Wittenberg
21-0
209
2
3)
Washington U
18-2
205
4
4)
St John's
18-2
180
3
5)
Middlebury
18-3
164
7
6)
UW-Platteville
18-3
154
11
7)
York (PA)
19-2
147
10
8)
Whitworth
19-2
143
9
9)
E Connecticut
19-2
139
14
10)
Williams
18-4
126
17
11)
MIT
18-3
116
T5
T12)
Emory
16-4
101
15
T12)
Hamilton
19-2
101
T21
14)
Swarthmore
18-3
97
8
15)
Augustana
16-5
93
12
16)
Illinois Wesleyan
16-4
80
T5
17)
UW-Stevens Point
15-6
71
24
18)
John Carroll
17-4
64
23
19)
Wesleyan
16-5
48
18
20)
UW-Oshkosh
16-5
47
16
21)
Wooster
17-4
44
NR
22)
Franklin & Marshall
18-3
41
NR
T23)
Hobart
18-3
34
NR
T23)
Lycoming
19-3
34
T21
T25)
Nebraska Wesleyan
19-3
32
NR
T25)
UW-Whitewater
16-5
32
20
Dropped Out: #13 Emory & Henry; #19 Marietta; #25 UW-River Falls

Also Receiving Votes: Marietta 25, Cabrini 22, Plattsburgh St 19, Amherst 17, UW-River Falls 15, Nichols 13, North Central (IL) 13, Ohio Northern 12, Ohio Wesleyan 11, Salem St 11, Emory & Henry 10, Johns Hopkins 10, New Jersey City 9, St Olaf 7, Randolph-Macon 3, Sul Ross St 1

Voters: FCGrizzliesGrad, KnightSlappy, Mr. Ypsi, NCF, Ryan Scott, smedindy, Smitty Oom, TheOsprey, and warriorcat
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 06, 2018, 05:46:47 PM
 
Rank
Team
High
Low
Ballots
1)
Whitman
1
1
9
2)
Wittenberg
2
6
9
3)
WashU
2
8
9
4)
St John's
4
10
9
5)
Middlebury
4
21
9
6)
UW-Platteville
4
17
9
7)
York (PA)
5
NR
8
8)
Whitworth
4
NR
8
9)
E Connecticut
7
19
9
10)
Williams
6
24
9
11)
MIT
2
NR
8
T12)
Emory
10
NR
8
T12)
Hamilton
5
NR
8
14)
Swarthmore
9
NR
8
15)
Augustana
9
NR
8
16)
Illinois Wesleyan
7
NR
7
17)
UW-Stevens Point
10
NR
6
18)
John Carroll
3
NR
7
19)
Wesleyan
12
NR
6
20)
UW-Oshkosh
8
NR
5
21)
Wooster
11
NR
6
22)
Franklin & Marshall
9
NR
4
T23)
Hobart
18
NR
7
T23)
Lycoming
14
NR
4
T25)
Nebraska Wesleyan
5
NR
2
T25)
UW-Whitewater
16
NR
6
27)
Marietta
11
NR
3
28)
Cabrini
17
NR
4
29)
Plattsburgh St
20
NR
4
30)
Amherst
9
NR
1
31)
UW-River Falls
19
NR
4
T32)
Nichols
15
NR
2
T32)
North Central (IL)
16
NR
3
34)
Ohio Northern
17
NR
2
T35)
Ohio Wesleyan
15
NR
1
T35)
Salem St
20
NR
3
T37)
Emory & Henry
16
NR
1
T37)
Johns Hopkins
19
NR
2
39)
New Jersey City
18
NR
2
40)
St Olaf
22
NR
2
41)
Randolph-Macon
24
NR
2
42)
Sul Ross St
25
NR
1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 13, 2018, 03:39:31 PM

2017-18 TOP 25 FAN POLL (Feb 5-12)
Rank
Team
Record
Points
Prev
1)
Whitman (9)
23-0
248
1
2)
Washington U
20-2
233
3
3)
St John's
21-2
219
4
4)
UW-Platteville (1)
20-3
217
6
5)
Wittenberg
22-1
207
2
6)
Whitworth
20-3
165
8
7)
Augustana
18-5
156
15
8)
Emory
18-4
138
T12
9)
Hamilton
20-3
129
T12
10)
E Connecticut
20-3
124
9
11)
Williams
19-5
121
10
12)
John Carroll
19-4
120
18
13)
Middlebury
19-5
115
5
14)
York (PA)
20-3
112
7
15)
Swarthmore
19-4
104
14
16)
UW-Oshkosh
18-5
87
20
17)
Wooster
19-4
84
21
18)
Wesleyan
19-5
65
19
19)
Hobart
20-3
61
T23
20)
UW-Stevens Point
16-7
58
17
21)
Illinois Wesleyan
17-5
54
16
22)
Cabrini
20-3
47
NR
23)
MIT
18-5
41
11
24)
Johns Hopkins
19-4
36
NR
25)
Nebraska Wesleyan
21-3
35
T25

Dropped Out: #22 Franklin & Marshall; #T23 Lycoming; #T25 UW-Whitewater

Also Receiving Votes: Marietta 34, Franklin & Marshall 24, Lycoming 24, St Olaf 24, Plattsburgh St 23, Amherst 21, New Jersey City 20, Nichols 17, Wheaton (IL) 16, Salem St 15, North Central (IL) 13, UW-River Falls 8, UW-Whitewater 8, LeTourneau 7, Ohio Wesleyan 7, Ohio Northern 6, Sul Ross St 5, Randolph-Macon 2

Voters: FCGrizzliesGrad, KnightSlappy, Mr. Ypsi, NCF, Ryan Scott, smedindy, Smitty Oom, TheOsprey, warriorcat, and WUPHF
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 13, 2018, 03:40:32 PM
 
Rank
Team
High
Low
Ballots
1)
Whitman
1
3
10
2)
Washington U
2
9
10
3)
St John's
3
8
10
4)
UW-Platteville
1
6
10
5)
Wittenberg
3
11
10
6)
Whitworth
3
NR
9
7)
Augustana
6
19
10
8)
Emory
7
NR
9
9)
Hamilton
5
NR
9
10)
E Connecticut
6
NR
9
11)
Williams
4
NR
9
12)
John Carroll
2
NR
9
13)
Middlebury
9
25
10
14)
York (PA)
8
NR
8
15)
Swarthmore
8
NR
9
16)
UW-Oshkosh
5
NR
7
17)
Wooster
7
NR
9
18)
Wesleyan
10
NR
8
19)
Hobart
15
NR
9
20)
UW-Stevens Point
10
NR
7
21)
Illinois Wesleyan
11
NR
6
22)
Cabrini
8
NR
6
23)
MIT
6
NR
3
24)
Johns Hopkins
10
NR
4
25)
Nebraska Wesleyan
5
NR
3
26)
Marietta
13
NR
5
T27)
Franklin & Marshall
16
NR
3
T27)
Lycoming
14
NR
3
29)
St Olaf
20
NR
5
30)
Plattsburgh St
17
NR
4
31)
Amherst
7
NR
2
32)
New Jersey City
17
NR
4
33)
Nichols
14
NR
2
34)
Wheaton (IL)
17
NR
2
35)
Salem St
19
NR
4
36)
North Central (IL)
18
NR
3
T37)
UW-River Falls
19
NR
2
T37)
UW-Whitewater
18
NR
1
T39)
LeTourneau
22
NR
2
T39)
Ohio Wesleyan
19
NR
1
41)
Ohio Northern
20
NR
1
42)
Sul Ross St
23
NR
2
43)
Randolph-Macon
24
NR
1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 13, 2018, 08:01:55 PM
With only ten voters, the spread on most teams never ceases to amaze me!  No one can say we're a bunch of conformists! ;D
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 21, 2018, 04:15:48 PM
Sorry for the delay. Had a late ballot.


2017-18 TOP 25 FAN POLL (Feb 12-18)
Rank
Team
Record
Points
Prev
1)
Whitman (9)
25-0
249
1
2)
Washington U (1)
22-2
235
2
3)
UW-Platteville
22-3
221
4
4)
St John's
23-2
218
3
5)
Wittenberg
23-2
193
5
6)
Whitworth
22-3
173
6
7)
Augustana
19-5
159
7
8)
Williams
20-5
151
11
9)
E Connecticut
22-3
149
10
10)
Hamilton
22-3
147
9
11)
Emory
20-4
134
8
12)
Wesleyan
20-5
123
18
13)
Swarthmore
21-4
112
15
14)
Illinois Wesleyan
19-5
100
21
15)
York (PA)
21-4
97
14
16)
Wooster
20-5
92
17
17)
Johns Hopkins
21-4
78
24
18)
Plattsburgh St
20-4
71
NR
T19)
Middlebury
19-6
58
13
T19)
UW-Oshkosh
19-6
58
16
21)
Cabrini
22-3
55
22
22)
John Carroll
20-5
50
12
23)
Marietta
20-5
47
NR
24)
UW-Stevens Point
17-8
44
20
25)
Nebraska Wesleyan
22-3
41
25

Dropped Out:
#19 Hobart and #23 MIT

Also Receiving Votes: MIT 29, Nichols 27, Amherst 25, Salem St 23, Hobart 18, LeTourneau 14, Franklin & Marshall 11, North Central (IL) 9, Ohio Wesleyan 9, Christopher Newport 7, Wheaton (IL) 6, Bethel 5, St Olaf 5, UW-River Falls 5, Ohio Northern 2

Voters: FCGrizzliesGrad, KnightSlappy, Mr. Ypsi, NCF, Ryan Scott, smedindy, Smitty Oom, TheOsprey, warriorcat, and WUPHF
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 21, 2018, 04:17:15 PM
 
Rank
Team
High
Low
Ballots
1)
Whitman
1
2
10
2)
Washington U
1
8
10
3)
UW-Platteville
2
5
10
4)
St John's
3
9
10
5)
Wittenberg
4
12
10
6)
Whitworth
3
NR
9
7)
Augustana
6
16
10
8)
Williams
4
22
10
9)
E Connecticut
8
17
10
10)
Hamilton
4
NR
9
11)
Emory
6
NR
8
12)
Wesleyan
9
19
10
13)
Swarthmore
9
NR
9
14)
Illinois Wesleyan
11
24
10
15)
York (PA)
8
NR
9
16)
Wooster
12
NR
9
17)
Johns Hopkins
12
NR
9
18)
Plattsburgh St
10
NR
7
T19)
Middlebury
13
NR
7
T19)
UW-Oshkosh
5
NR
7
21)
Cabrini
7
NR
6
22)
John Carroll
6
NR
7
23)
Marietta
11
NR
8
24)
UW-Stevens Point
12
NR
7
25)
Nebraska Wesleyan
5
NR
3
26)
MIT
3
NR
2
27)
Nichols
15
NR
6
28)
Amherst
7
NR
2
29)
Salem St
18
NR
5
30)
Hobart
20
NR
6
31)
LeTourneau
14
NR
2
32)
Franklin & Marshall
20
NR
2
T33)
North Central (IL)
18
NR
2
T33)
Ohio Wesleyan
17
NR
1
35)
Christopher Newport
19
NR
1
36)
Wheaton (IL)
22
NR
2
T37)
Bethel
21
NR
1
T37)
St Olaf
21
NR
1
T37)
UW-River Falls
23
NR
2
40)
Ohio Northern
24
NR
1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 27, 2018, 05:10:47 PM
2017-18 TOP 25 FAN POLL (Feb 19-25)
Rank
Team
Record
Points
Rank
1)
Whitman (8)
26-1
246
1
T2)
Washington U (2)
22-3
223
2
T2)
Wittenberg
26-2
223
5
T4)
Whitworth
24-3
194
6
T4)
Williams
22-5
194
8
6)
UW-Platteville
22-4
190
3
7)
Augustana
22-5
176
7
8)
St John's
23-3
165
4
9)
E Connecticut
25-3
158
9
10)
Emory
21-4
137
11
11)
Hamilton
22-4
124
10
12)
York (PA)
23-4
122
15
13)
Johns Hopkins
23-4
110
17
T14)
John Carroll
23-5
108
22
T14)
Wesleyan
21-6
108
12
16)
Swarthmore
22-5
90
13
17)
Plattsburgh St
22-4
86
18
18)
Wooster
21-6
67
16
19)
Middlebury
19-6
58
T19
20)
UW-Stevens Point
19-8
57
24
21)
Cabrini
24-3
56
21
22)
MIT
22-5
51
NR
23)
Nebraska Wesleyan
24-3
50
25
24)
Nichols
25-3
49
NR
25)
North Central (IL)
19-8
36
NR
Dropped Out: #14 Illinois Wesleyan, #T19 UW-Oshkosh, and #23 Marietta

Also Receiving Votes: UW-Oshkosh 34, Illinois Wesleyan 30, Marietta 27, Amherst 22, Augsburg 11, Christopher Newport 7, LeTourneau 7, Bethel 6, Franklin & Marshall 6, Sul Ross St 5, Ohio Wesleyan 4, New Jersey City 3, Ramapo 3, Ohio Northern 2, Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 1, Emory & Henry 1, Hanover 1, St Olaf 1, UW-River Falls 1

Voters: FCGrizzliesGrad, KnightSlappy, Mr. Ypsi, NCF, Ryan Scott, smedindy, Smitty Oom, TheOsprey, warriorcat, and WUPHF
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 27, 2018, 05:12:15 PM
 
Rank
Team
High
Low
Ballots
1)
Whitman
1
3
10
T2)
Washington U
1
9
10
T2)
Wittenberg
2
12
10
T4)
Whitworth
2
NR
9
T4)
Williams
4
13
10
6)
UW-Platteville
2
12
10
7)
Augustana
5
17
10
8)
St John's
5
NR
9
9)
E Connecticut
8
15
10
10)
Emory
4
NR
8
11)
Hamilton
10
19
10
12)
York (PA)
8
NR
9
13)
Johns Hopkins
10
NR
9
T14)
John Carroll
3
21
10
T14)
Wesleyan
7
NR
9
16)
Swarthmore
7
NR
9
17)
Plattsburgh St
10
NR
8
18)
Wooster
12
NR
8
19)
Middlebury
14
NR
6
20)
UW-Stevens Point
11
NR
7
21)
Cabrini
7
NR
5
22)
MIT
2
NR
6
23)
Nebraska Wesleyan
6
NR
7
24)
Nichols
16
NR
9
25)
North Central (IL)
12
NR
6
26)
UW-Oshkosh
16
NR
5
27)
Illinois Wesleyan
13
NR
7
28)
Marietta
13
NR
3
29)
Amherst
8
NR
3
30)
Augsburg
18
NR
2
T31)
Christopher Newport
21
NR
2
T31)
LeTourneau
19
NR
1
T33)
Bethel
20
NR
1
T34)
Franklin & Marshall
20
NR
1
35)
Sul Ross St
23
NR
2
36)
Ohio Wesleyan
22
NR
1
T37)
New Jersey City
23
NR
1
T37)
Ramapo
23
NR
1
39)
Ohio Northern
24
NR
1
T40)
Claremont-Mudd-Scripps
25
NR
1
T40)
Emory & Henry
25
NR
1
T40)
Hanover
25
NR
1
T40)
St Olaf
25
NR
1
T40)
UW-River Falls
25
NR
1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2018, 07:32:26 PM

Who still has MIT #2?  That's insane.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 27, 2018, 07:42:37 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2018, 07:32:26 PM

Who still has MIT #2?  That's insane.

True, but no more insane than the voter who still refuses to vote for Whitworth.  (Scary thought: maybe both are the same voter?! ::))
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Smitty Oom on February 28, 2018, 01:08:36 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 27, 2018, 07:42:37 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2018, 07:32:26 PM

Who still has MIT #2?  That's insane.

True, but no more insane than the voter who still refuses to vote for Whitworth.  (Scary thought: maybe both are the same voter?! ::))

Both of which stand out to me as well. Also not voting for St. John's but that would rank in at third in my list of 'insane votes.' Thats the reason for the posters poll though!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 28, 2018, 01:13:17 AM
Half the voters selected a unique team at 25 to get them a single vote in the poll. (The other five votes for #25 all finished ranked in the 20s in the poll)
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 28, 2018, 06:43:31 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 27, 2018, 07:42:37 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2018, 07:32:26 PM

Who still has MIT #2?  That's insane.

True, but no more insane than the voter who still refuses to vote for Whitworth.  (Scary thought: maybe both are the same voter?! ::))

I don't think that's crazy.  I don't think they're anywhere close to #2 in the country.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 28, 2018, 08:52:35 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 28, 2018, 06:43:31 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 27, 2018, 07:42:37 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2018, 07:32:26 PM

Who still has MIT #2?  That's insane.

True, but no more insane than the voter who still refuses to vote for Whitworth.  (Scary thought: maybe both are the same voter?! ::))

I don't think that's crazy.  I don't think they're anywhere close to #2 in the country.

Yeah, I think it's funny what people think is crazy sometimes. As much as we pride ourselves as being separate from the mothership's poll (Ryan Scott excluded), I think our opinions are still anchored to it in a lot of ways.

For example: Nebraska Wesleyan was only named on 7 ballots but so far no one's called that out as crazy! (My ratings, Drew Pasteur, Massey, and Bennett all have them in the top six using different statistical models). Granted, those models are never perfect (see: my rating and MIT).
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 28, 2018, 10:26:09 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 28, 2018, 08:52:35 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 28, 2018, 06:43:31 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 27, 2018, 07:42:37 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2018, 07:32:26 PM

Who still has MIT #2?  That's insane.

True, but no more insane than the voter who still refuses to vote for Whitworth.  (Scary thought: maybe both are the same voter?! ::))

I don't think that's crazy.  I don't think they're anywhere close to #2 in the country.

Yeah, I think it's funny what people think is crazy sometimes. As much as we pride ourselves as being separate from the mothership's poll (Ryan Scott excluded), I think our opinions are still anchored to it in a lot of ways.

For example: Nebraska Wesleyan was only named on 7 ballots but so far no one's called that out as crazy! (My ratings, Drew Pasteur, Massey, and Bennett all have them in the top six using different statistical models). Granted, those models are never perfect (see: my rating and MIT).

I can see an argument for every extreme on there except two: Not voting for St. John's seems irresponsible at this point and the MIT at 2 thing.  Honestly, though, if Jomard were still playing, I wouldn't even have a problem with it, but with the injury it's silly.
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 20, 2018, 11:34:43 PM
2017-18 TOP 25 FAN POLL (Final)

Rank
Team
Record
Points
Rank
1)
Nebraska Wesleyan (10)
30-3
250
23
2)
UW-Oshkosh
25-8
232
NR
3)
Whitman
29-2
218
1
4)
Augustana
25-6
198
7
5)
UW-Platteville
24-5
191
6
6)
Wittenberg
27-3
164
T2
7)
Hamilton
24-5
154
11
8)
Washington U
22-4
153
T2
9)
Springfield
22-9
152
NR
10)
Swarthmore
25-6
148
16
11)
MIT
25-6
144
22
12)
Ramapo
25-7
135
NR
13)
John Carroll
25-6
120
T14
14)
Williams
23-6
118
T4
T15)
St John's
23-4
97
8
T15)
Whitworth
24-4
97
T4
17)
Emory
23-5
95
10
18)
York (PA)
24-5
80
12
19)
Middlebury
21-7
79
19
20)
Plattsburgh St
24-5
75
17
21)
UW-Stevens Point
21-9
61
20
22)
Franklin & Marshall
22-7
55
NR
23)
Wesleyan
22-7
41
T14
24)
E Connecticut
26-4
39
9
25)
Johns Hopkins
24-5
38
13
Dropped Out: #18 Wooster, #21 Cabrini, #24 Nichols, and #25 North Central (IL)

Also Receiving Votes: Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 26, Cabrini 24, Amherst 19, Wooster 17, Marietta 13, North Central (IL) 5, Bethel 4, Augsburg 3, LeTourneau 2, Ohio Wesleyan 2, Hobart 1

Voters: FCGrizzliesGrad, KnightSlappy, Mr. Ypsi, NCF, Ryan Scott, smedindy, Smitty Oom, TheOsprey, warriorcat, and WUPHF
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 20, 2018, 11:35:48 PM
 
Rank
Team
High
Low
Ballots
1)
Nebraska Wesleyan
1
1
10
2)
UW-Oshkosh
2
9
10
3)
Whitman
2
7
10
4)
Augustana
3
18
10
5)
UW-Platteville
3
9
10
6)
Wittenberg
4
19
10
7)
Hamilton
6
15
10
8)
Washington U
4
NR
9
9)
Springfield
3
NR
9
10)
Swarthmore
4
NR
9
11)
MIT
2
22
10
12)
Ramapo
4
NR
8
13)
John Carroll
4
24
10
14)
Williams
5
22
10
T15)
St John's
10
NR
9
T15)
Whitworth
9
NR
8
17)
Emory
10
NR
9
18)
York (PA)
8
NR
9
19)
Middlebury
13
NR
9
20)
Plattsburgh St
13
NR
9
21)
UW-Stevens Point
11
NR
9
22)
Franklin & Marshall
10
NR
8
23)
Wesleyan
8
NR
6
24)
E Connecticut
16
NR
7
25)
Johns Hopkins
18
NR
9
26)
Claremont-Mudd-Scripps
11
NR
4
27)
Cabrini
16
NR
5
28)
Amherst
7
NR
1
29)
Wooster
18
NR
6
30)
Marietta
13
NR
1
31)
North Central (IL)
21
NR
1
32)
Bethel
22
NR
1
33)
Augsburg
23
NR
1
T34)
LeTourneau
24
NR
1
T34)
Ohio Wesleyan
24
NR
1
36)
Hobart
25
NR
1
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: smedindy on March 21, 2018, 02:11:53 PM
I don't have a 'lone' ballot.

Low on Williams and Hamilton

High on Emory (and UW - Oshkosh, but I think I have company there.)

Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: Smitty Oom on March 21, 2018, 02:13:33 PM
Thanks for doing this Grizz, it was fun to make a poll each week and see how it compared to the d3hoops poll!
Title: Re: Posters' Poll
Post by: 7express on December 30, 2018, 02:34:48 AM
Coming back for 19 Grizz??