East Region Fan Poll

Started by gobombers15, December 19, 2008, 01:29:14 PM

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magicman

Based on the latest regional rankings that pabegg has posted on the Pool C board it looks like the East entries in the NCAA tournament could be these teams:

1. Ithaca  Pool C bid if they lose conference tournament.   

2. St. Lawrence    Pool C bid if they lose conference tournament.

3. Hamilton Pool C bid if they lose conference tournament

4. SUNYAC conference tournament winner. No other SUNYAC school will get a bid

5. Medaille if they win the AMCC conference tournament. Only bid will be tourney champion

6. Winner of the NEAC conference tournament if it's 1 of the 6 NY schools.
    SUNYIT is a top contender but again only 1 bid from this conference

It's possible that 2 other teams from the East could make the NCAA's.

1. If an E8 team (RIT, Utica, Naz/Fisher) upsets Ithaca for the automatic bid it would give the E8 2 entries.

2. If a Liberty League team other than St. Lawrence or Hamilton wins the conference tournament. (RPI or Clarkson) This could give the LL 3 bids. It's possible that SLU or Hamilton, both locks right now for a Pool C bid, could drop in the Pool C rankings if they lose in the semifinal game of their tournament instead of the finals. I don't think the LL will get 3 bids but it is possible.

We could have as few as 3 teams or as many as 8 teams make the field.       

gobombers15

Guys, still need a few more ballots. Send them in when you get a chance. Thanks.
A 2004 graduate of the "almighty legendary" Ithaca College. Goooooo Bombers.

Cyclone0205

Just sent mine in...brutal week trying to pick teams.   We've had the discussion before, but the region this year is really really down.  Based just on merit (teams I think are in the top 57 in the country), I think there's an argument that Ithaca should be the only team from the region to go to the dance.



FisherDynasty

I just put my ballet in and wow what a horrible batch of teams this year.  I can't even get over how each league is so down.  leader of the sunyac has 8 losses, besides fisher the 2 team has 8 losses, both uaa teams have 8 and 9 losses, the only conf with descent teams is LL with 5-6 which is still a little down for them. besides ithaca this batch is very mediocre. 

Ethelred the Unready

Quote from: FisherDynasty on February 24, 2009, 01:01:45 PM
I just put my ballet in and wow what a horrible batch of teams this year.  I can't even get over how each league is so down.  leader of the sunyac has 8 losses, besides fisher the 2 team has 8 losses, both uaa teams have 8 and 9 losses, the only conf with descent teams is LL with 5-6 which is still a little down for them. besides ithaca this batch is very mediocre. 

...and yet somebody just found a way to beat the defending National Champions and current #2 ranked team.   Oh sure, all it took was some unbelievable good fortune, but that's what clean living will do for ya.
"Your mind is on vacation but your mouth is working overtime" - Mose Allison

Cyclone0205

Hahaha, well yes Rochester did beat the #2 team in the country.  But no one would argue that this team is anywhere near as good as the prior Rochester teams.

Ethelred the Unready

Quote from: Cyclone0205 on February 24, 2009, 02:06:24 PM
Hahaha, well yes Rochester did beat the #2 team in the country.  But no one would argue that this team is anywhere near as good as the prior Rochester teams.

Well...there was a team in the mid-80's I think that was below .500, but yeah, I agree.
"Your mind is on vacation but your mouth is working overtime" - Mose Allison

with age came?

alright maybe I am trying to stir the pot a little here.... BUT I do believe there may be greater parity but not necessarily mediocrity. #14 Middlebury lost to St Lawrence - #23 Amherst squeaked a 3 pt win over LL doormat Skidmore - #13 Trinity (Tx) beat SUNYIT (who most of us did not even know is in our region- just kidding- ) by only 10 points - U of R over Wash U SJF over St Mary's.  These are all very highly ranked and regarded teams being either challenged or beaten by team you refer to a"weak."  I just think top to bottom the LL and the E-8 are just pretty even.

Cyclone0205

with age -


I, in my analysis, am not comparing whether the region is strong or weak has against other regions.  I'm just putting the region up against itself in the past couple years.


Ithaca is on par with most #1 teams in the region from the past.


After them, there is a significant drop off.  As we've said, Rochester and NYU are not even close to as good as their teams from even just a year ago.  2008 UAA East vs. 2009 UAA East would be 20-30 point games, maybe by half.


As for the SUNYAC, we all agree that the conference is definitely down.

I think there is more parity, but I don't think the parity is because the top teams stayed good and the bottom teams got better.  I think it's because the top got worse and the bottom got better...and since, in these rankings we only focus on the top, it looks like the region as a whole has gotten worse.

with age came?

OK I agree the SUNYAC is very disappointing this year. So many teams did not perform to expectations - Cortland, Brockport, Plattsburg, Potsdam but it might be because all the teams had to play a more evenly matched league.  The league I am most familiar with is the liberty league and that league is in, my estimation, tougher. St Law was no 1 last year but has improved this year with a better record and good freshman.  Hamilton was number 2 and they lost virtually nothing and gained some solid freshman, Vassar was number 3 and is down somewhat, Clarkson was 4 and still is, but again has most of the components from last year are back and their record is 15-10  overall vs 9-15 on last years squad. RPI was 5 th last year and 3rd this year and it was the SImmon's show last year and it still is today so they did not get worse. Hobart lost a stud senior but last years freshman have improved so they are probably a push, Skidmore has in my opnion the best total freshman class and are vastly improved. So in my opinion the best got better and the rest of the league moved up.  In the e-8 I think Ithaca is better than any team was last year. Roch tech better than last year, Utica better than last year. Naz down a little, Stevens down, Hartwick significantly up, Alfred significantly up, SJF probably up too, Elmira a push. As a whole I think the league is better especially at the top with Ithaca.  Roch is definitely down but still has a win against Wash U.  NYU 16-11 last year 15-9 this year is probably a push.  So other than the SUNYAC I think the rest of the east is on the whole better.

FisherDynasty

withage came, i agree with your sunyac analysis they are without question down this year, LL might be stronger, and e8 is definatly down as well at the top, and uaa (nyu and uofr) are not even close to past years. Fisher is definatly not up from last year, we wont go into detail.  however, in analyzing the region i believe you have to go with the dominant teams year in and year are that are usually are of much higher quality than an improved naz team or imporved rit team such as nyu and uofr, these are teams that play in a great league and are real contenders for sweet 16 and final 4 any most given years, then you have to look at fisher as of late many late ncaa runs are way down, then you go to the sunyac probably the strongest league in region on any given year there top 2-3 teams usually have been ranked during the year and have the opportunity to make a run in the ncaa's, then of course in liberty league year in and year out u have hamilton and slu which have held to their standings this year, probably the ownly league that actually is where they usually are.   We can say Ithaca stepped in for Fisher and that is legitimate, but the e8 usually has another team getting an at large or right there for an at large as well whether it be RIT who in my opinion is not very good at all and Utica who has come up as of late but they are not as good as past years either.

Like i said before, luckily since the Nescac is also down i think ithaca or any other east team in the tourny has a shot.  Most other northeast leagues are not very strong at all, teams have good records but the leagues are very bad.  I think middleberry, brandies, amherst, mit, and a few others will be tough but all very beatable by any top sunyac, e8, or LL team.


Cyclone0205

As an E8 follower, and we've had this conversation quite a bit, the e8 is definitely down from last year.


I'll just go by where they finished from this year to last year in the regular season.

Bold is the 2009 team
#1 - Ithaca (17-9) vs. Ithaca (24-1)

Winner:  '09 Ithaca.  2009 Ithaca is obviously better.  Not really much discussion needed for this one.

#2 - Stevens (23-6) vs. RIT (17-8)

Winner: '08 Stevens.  This Stevens team was ranked in the Top 25 in the country for multiple weeks, ended up winning the ECAC Metro Championship, and was a nightmare match-up most nights.  I have to give them the edge over this years RIT team, who started out very strong, but has faded horribly. 

#3 - Nazareth (20-8) vs. Utica (17-8)

Winner:  Push.  This one is up for debate.  To me, Naz won the Empire 8 last year, and had a player in Canori that came out of no where and played hot most of the season.  However, I think Utica is more talented, but they don't play up to their talent.  So I'll call it even.

#4 - Fisher (17-12) vs. Nazareth (12-13)

Winner: '08 Fisher.  Not even close.  This years Naz team just isn't very good, and Fisher was a pretty decent team throughout the year once they got healthy and Coach got them going, as he always does.

#5 - Utica (16-9) vs. St. John Fisher (16-9)

Winner: '08 Utica.  Fisher fans are, as far as I've experienced, as realistic and impartial as we have, and I think they'd agree that last years Utica team was better than this years Fisher squad.  Utica was a team that just didn't play to it's talent, which is why I knock them, but I think Fisher was just too young this year and in the head to head most would take Utica.


I'm going to stop there because when you get down to the final 4 teams, it becomes splitting hairs.  In short, I think last year RIT was better than this year Hartwick, and after that you can argue that the bottom three from this year (stevens, alfred, elmira) are better than the bottom 3 from last year. 


That being said, I think the "parity" comes from the fact that, after Ithaca, the top got A LOT worse and the bottom got better, but only marginally.  That's why we think the e8 as a whole is down.

FisherDynasty

Not to mention 2008 e8 was weaker from top 4 teams than 2007 through 2005 atleast.

gobombers15

Guys, sorry the poll did not get posted this week. There were two posters who couldn't get me their ballots because of good reasons. At this point, it would be moot. Make sure to send me your polls this Sunday evening, though. If everyone gets them to me on Sunday night, I can have it posted that evening. It makes it easier for me, too, when I don't have worry about it during the work week. Thanks.
A 2004 graduate of the "almighty legendary" Ithaca College. Goooooo Bombers.

with age came?

Guys rather than comparing 1 to 1 - Compare this years team to last years team from the same school.   I do not pretend to know the league like you do but the only 2 teams that I see that are definitely worse this year are Stevens & Naz. Fisher & Utica may be pushes.  The rest I believe are all better.  Also show me wins against quality opponents last year from regional teams like St Mary's by Fisher, St Law by Ithaca, MIddlebury by St Lawrence, Williams by Hamilton, Wash U by Rochester.  The league I do know is the LL and except for Vassar & possibly Hobart every team is as good or better than last year.  I think the LL should get 2 teams in the tournament now with RPI's upset of ST Law in the finals.  Same with the e-8 (personally I hope it is Ithaca & RIT).  I just do not see Naz as deserving yet. There are too many good wins and for that matter close losses (see LL Doormat's Skidmore's 3 point loss to top 25 Amherst) to make the unilateral statement that the region is way down.  SUNYAC - yes absolutely, rest of region I am still not yet convinced.