FB: Liberty League

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Jonny Utah

Quote from: Ithaca798891 on April 22, 2020, 03:39:27 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on April 22, 2020, 03:00:29 PM
Quote from: Ithaca798891 on April 22, 2020, 02:46:48 PM
I really hope I'm wrong but, I don't think we're getting football this year.

I have that feeling as well, but I also can see some professional leagues starting up, and even if they are without fans, if we go 3-4 months in a row with low numbers of cases and deaths, especially among young people, I think their may be a chance at something.  But you would need a good 3-4 months of a semi-opened up economy before anything will happen I agree.

You're never going to have d3 football without fans.

If the college isn't open due to health risks of people congregating in large groups, you can't have 250+ football players, coaches, staff all mingling during a game. Conversely, if the college is open because those health risks are mitigated, what's the harm in having fans there? At most campuses, dining halls and central campus buildings are apt to be more crowded than the football stands.

Well I'm saying that if pro leagues can have games without fans and no one starts to get sick again (testing will need to be a part of this obviously), then other things will start to open up.  D3 football is the place that really doesn't need any fans, because the games are pretty free to the student body anyway and finances aren't a concern.

But what you say about the campuses is the main issue I agree.  If college campuses aren't open, then there will be no sports.  I 100% agree with you there. 

The Mole

Thanks for the insights and commentary on U of R. Much appreciated and will be helpful for the young man in question. I enjoy both the banter and analysis on this thread. Thank you again
TAKE THE ROAD LESS TRAVELED

Oline89

Quote from: Ithaca798891 on April 22, 2020, 03:39:27 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on April 22, 2020, 03:00:29 PM
Quote from: Ithaca798891 on April 22, 2020, 02:46:48 PM
I really hope I'm wrong but, I don't think we're getting football this year.

I have that feeling as well, but I also can see some professional leagues starting up, and even if they are without fans, if we go 3-4 months in a row with low numbers of cases and deaths, especially among young people, I think their may be a chance at something.  But you would need a good 3-4 months of a semi-opened up economy before anything will happen I agree.

You're never going to have d3 football without fans.

If the college isn't open due to health risks of people congregating in large groups, you can't have 250+ football players, coaches, staff all mingling during a game. Conversely, if the college is open because those health risks are mitigated, what's the harm in having fans there? At most campuses, dining halls and central campus buildings are apt to be more crowded than the football stands.

If the college campus is open, why wouldn't there be sports be played?  It seems to me that the idea of bringing players back to campus and test everyone, makes sense.  Continue daily temperature monitoring, have the trainers keep a watchful eye on all players for any symptoms, limit any trips off campus. 

jmcozenlaw

Quote from: Oline89 on April 22, 2020, 09:21:31 PM
Quote from: Ithaca798891 on April 22, 2020, 03:39:27 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on April 22, 2020, 03:00:29 PM
Quote from: Ithaca798891 on April 22, 2020, 02:46:48 PM
I really hope I'm wrong but, I don't think we're getting football this year.

I have that feeling as well, but I also can see some professional leagues starting up, and even if they are without fans, if we go 3-4 months in a row with low numbers of cases and deaths, especially among young people, I think their may be a chance at something.  But you would need a good 3-4 months of a semi-opened up economy before anything will happen I agree.

You're never going to have d3 football without fans.

If the college isn't open due to health risks of people congregating in large groups, you can't have 250+ football players, coaches, staff all mingling during a game. Conversely, if the college is open because those health risks are mitigated, what's the harm in having fans there? At most campuses, dining halls and central campus buildings are apt to be more crowded than the football stands.

If the college campus is open, why wouldn't there be sports be played?  It seems to me that the idea of bringing players back to campus and test everyone, makes sense.  Continue daily temperature monitoring, have the trainers keep a watchful eye on all players for any symptoms, limit any trips off campus.

Might be much to do about nothing, but more of the big school talking heads are going down this path. One wonders if they truly know something and are greasing the skids.........or if they are talking out of the keysters. I still take the side of no football as currently scheduled and trying to figure out if it can be played in the Spring given stadium situations and other sports. If so, recruiting for the Fall 2021 season will be a clusterfudge!!!

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/29085873/arizona-president-says-fall-football-increasingly-unlikely-more-answers-needed

thewaterboy

Quote from: jmcozenlaw on April 23, 2020, 10:56:26 AM
Quote from: Oline89 on April 22, 2020, 09:21:31 PM
Quote from: Ithaca798891 on April 22, 2020, 03:39:27 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on April 22, 2020, 03:00:29 PM
Quote from: Ithaca798891 on April 22, 2020, 02:46:48 PM
I really hope I'm wrong but, I don't think we're getting football this year.

I have that feeling as well, but I also can see some professional leagues starting up, and even if they are without fans, if we go 3-4 months in a row with low numbers of cases and deaths, especially among young people, I think their may be a chance at something.  But you would need a good 3-4 months of a semi-opened up economy before anything will happen I agree.

You're never going to have d3 football without fans.

If the college isn't open due to health risks of people congregating in large groups, you can't have 250+ football players, coaches, staff all mingling during a game. Conversely, if the college is open because those health risks are mitigated, what's the harm in having fans there? At most campuses, dining halls and central campus buildings are apt to be more crowded than the football stands.

If the college campus is open, why wouldn't there be sports be played?  It seems to me that the idea of bringing players back to campus and test everyone, makes sense.  Continue daily temperature monitoring, have the trainers keep a watchful eye on all players for any symptoms, limit any trips off campus.

Might be much to do about nothing, but more of the big school talking heads are going down this path. One wonders if they truly know something and are greasing the skids.........or if they are talking out of the keysters. I still take the side of no football as currently scheduled and trying to figure out if it can be played in the Spring given stadium situations and other sports. If so, recruiting for the Fall 2021 season will be a clusterfudge!!!

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/29085873/arizona-president-says-fall-football-increasingly-unlikely-more-answers-needed
Football in the spring > No football at all.

Oline89

What is the feeling of Spring football vs No football, and giving the upcoming seniors another year of eligibility

Ithaca798891

Quote from: Oline89 on April 22, 2020, 09:21:31 PM
Quote from: Ithaca798891 on April 22, 2020, 03:39:27 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on April 22, 2020, 03:00:29 PM
Quote from: Ithaca798891 on April 22, 2020, 02:46:48 PM
I really hope I'm wrong but, I don't think we're getting football this year.

I have that feeling as well, but I also can see some professional leagues starting up, and even if they are without fans, if we go 3-4 months in a row with low numbers of cases and deaths, especially among young people, I think their may be a chance at something.  But you would need a good 3-4 months of a semi-opened up economy before anything will happen I agree.

You're never going to have d3 football without fans.

If the college isn't open due to health risks of people congregating in large groups, you can't have 250+ football players, coaches, staff all mingling during a game. Conversely, if the college is open because those health risks are mitigated, what's the harm in having fans there? At most campuses, dining halls and central campus buildings are apt to be more crowded than the football stands.

If the college campus is open, why wouldn't there be sports be played?  It seems to me that the idea of bringing players back to campus and test everyone, makes sense.  Continue daily temperature monitoring, have the trainers keep a watchful eye on all players for any symptoms, limit any trips off campus.

Because if you're not allowing non-student athletes back to campus due to health risks, how do you justify allowing student athletes back? What makes them different?

Oline89

It goes without saying (or maybe it doesn't  ???) that if there is no classes on campus, then there are no sports.  My point was, bringing students back in stages (fall athletes first), then maybe freshamn, then upperclass would allow the groups to be tested in smaller cohorts.  Easing the burden on the schools.

jmcozenlaw

Quote from: thewaterboy on April 23, 2020, 11:58:34 AM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on April 23, 2020, 10:56:26 AM
Quote from: Oline89 on April 22, 2020, 09:21:31 PM
Quote from: Ithaca798891 on April 22, 2020, 03:39:27 PM
Quote from: Jonny Utah on April 22, 2020, 03:00:29 PM
Quote from: Ithaca798891 on April 22, 2020, 02:46:48 PM
I really hope I'm wrong but, I don't think we're getting football this year.

I have that feeling as well, but I also can see some professional leagues starting up, and even if they are without fans, if we go 3-4 months in a row with low numbers of cases and deaths, especially among young people, I think their may be a chance at something.  But you would need a good 3-4 months of a semi-opened up economy before anything will happen I agree.

You're never going to have d3 football without fans.

If the college isn't open due to health risks of people congregating in large groups, you can't have 250+ football players, coaches, staff all mingling during a game. Conversely, if the college is open because those health risks are mitigated, what's the harm in having fans there? At most campuses, dining halls and central campus buildings are apt to be more crowded than the football stands.

If the college campus is open, why wouldn't there be sports be played?  It seems to me that the idea of bringing players back to campus and test everyone, makes sense.  Continue daily temperature monitoring, have the trainers keep a watchful eye on all players for any symptoms, limit any trips off campus.

Might be much to do about nothing, but more of the big school talking heads are going down this path. One wonders if they truly know something and are greasing the skids.........or if they are talking out of the keysters. I still take the side of no football as currently scheduled and trying to figure out if it can be played in the Spring given stadium situations and other sports. If so, recruiting for the Fall 2021 season will be a clusterfudge!!!

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/29085873/arizona-president-says-fall-football-increasingly-unlikely-more-answers-needed
Football in the spring > No football at all.

As much as I want to say, "please, don't say that". You might very well be correct. :(

jmcozenlaw

Quote from: Oline89 on April 23, 2020, 01:21:20 PM
What is the feeling of Spring football vs No football, and giving the upcoming seniors another year of eligibility

Good question Oline! In conversation with a couple of bored coaches and A.D. friends of mine, they fear the cascade that could happen. Something like this...............Fall football gets nixed and gets moved to the Late Winter/Spring. What does that do to the other Fall sports such as men's and women's soccer, field hockey and women's volleyball (am I missing something else)? These outdoor sports use the football field in a lot of cases so when do they get moved to?

Fall coaches, especially football coaches ask "when the hell would we recruit"? given that the heavy lifting occurs once the football season is over? What happens if high schools continue with distance learning through the holidays (or we get a flare up and we shut it all down again) and High School Fall sports are cancelled. WHO is added to HOW do we recruit?!?!

Now, come mid-October, here comes men's and women's basketball and wrestling, with practices and games/matches starting around November 1 (wrestling) and November 8 (basketball). What do you do with these sports? Some schools have men's volleyball as well, although they start around mid-January. Baseball and softball are right around the corner, but at least they have their own playing fields. Then, both men's and women's lacrosse are starting real soon (mid-February practices) and they use the football field in many cases. Additionally, track and field in many cases uses the track surrounding the football field and the field itself for some other field events.

The Spring athletes (baseball, softball, men's and women's lacrosse, men's and women's track and field) have already been given an extra year of eligibility given the circumstances today. If Fall sports are moved to Spring, the stadium situation would be a disaster for many schools, for practices and games. The gym situation would be equally as disastrous for many schools that have a full offering of sports (i.e. wrestling and men's volleyball........two sports not offered by many schools). Some schools are adding women's wrestling. That will also mean gym time.

Giving an extra year of eligibility, similar to the Spring student athletes is one thing...............being able to afford a fifth year of school is another. There are a bunch of small schools that are teetering on the precipice now. Returning unused room and board and other partial fees hurt some of them already. If the Fall were to become a distance learning situation, with no room and board fees, that will equal the death of about 8-10 schools that I could name, but won't.

My contacts are being told that athletic budgets are being slashed in some cases. Others are putting the onus on head coaches to really help, like never before, with getting asses in seats, acting like mini-admissions hubs...........and being compensated above their salary for doing so. This is a mess and coaches, administrators and some Presidents are very, very nervous...........even some of the more well heeled schools with solid endowments. What does a conference look like with shuttered and teetering schools if you are one of two or three in much better shape?

I blew up the other day talking to an administrator at a local university. This person (hiding gender) was bitching that their net tuition % across the university was down to 64.5% this school year. I was flabergasted and mentioned how they were 78 students short of their freshmen goal this past August. That's tuition and room and board for most (minus commuters) as well other ancillary fees. This person has spent their entire career in academic administration and I swear that they could not wrap their arms around what I was saying.

Don't worry about the damn net tuition % (yes, even at a tuition dependent school) when you are 78 STUDENTS SHORT OF YOUR GOAL!!!!!! In fact, give the head coaches some extra money (that really costs squatta as it's just a shell game in this case) to fill out rosters, with enhanced aid packages for those who deserve it whether academically and/or financially. I asked him/her, for 2020-2021 (if things magically revert back to August 2020) a simple question:

Would you rather wind up 78 students short again OR would you rather hit the goal, fill the classrooms, dorms, dining hall, even if it means the net tuition % drops to 60%, as an example? This genius chose the former!!!!

78 students paying $20K - $25K all-in (albeit $10K - $15K below plan) brings in an additional (close to) $2 MILLION DOLLARS (in the case of $25K). Being short those 78 students leaves you that much in the hole!! It also would prevent the "rightsizing" (I abhor that term!) that gets rid of excellent people who have given their heart and soul to a school for many years! In my line of work, I'd rather get 50% of SOMETHING vs. 100% of NOTHING!!

I don't know how many schools have folks at the top who have zero business sense, but this was mind blowing.

Oh, I have a conference call with the President of that University next Tuesday, I won't throw the CFO under the bus, or, at least not too far!!

Rant over.........let's hope the football season is not. :)

Ithaca798891

#53230
Quote from: Oline89 on April 23, 2020, 04:05:56 PM
It goes without saying (or maybe it doesn't  ???) that if there is no classes on campus, then there are no sports.  My point was, bringing students back in stages (fall athletes first), then maybe freshamn, then upperclass would allow the groups to be tested in smaller cohorts.  Easing the burden on the schools.

Okay, so now justify the athletes being the first ones back in a way that doesn't confer favoritism due to them being athletes, which not only would be a PR nightmare, but probably an NCAA violation.

Because I have no idea what that justification could possibly be.

Oline89

Quote from: Ithaca798891 on April 24, 2020, 10:49:16 AM
Quote from: Oline89 on April 23, 2020, 04:05:56 PM
It goes without saying (or maybe it doesn't  ???) that if there is no classes on campus, then there are no sports.  My point was, bringing students back in stages (fall athletes first), then maybe freshamn, then upperclass would allow the groups to be tested in smaller cohorts.  Easing the burden on the schools.

Okay, so now justify the athletes being the first ones back in a way that doesn't confer favoritism due to them being athletes, which not only would be a PR nightmare, but probably an NCAA violation.

Because I have no idea what that justification could possibly be.

Simple, fewer people on campus, fewer students that need testing.  Fewer students on campus allows for creation of a cohort of students that are now free of disease (have presumably tested negative).  Then the following week, the next group of students are brought onto campus.  And so on, until all students have been tested, and then classes can begin.  What is the favoritism?  Fall athletes all arrive on campus at least 2 weeks before the general student body anyway

UfanBill

Quote from: Ithaca798891 on April 24, 2020, 10:49:16 AM
Quote from: Oline89 on April 23, 2020, 04:05:56 PM
It goes without saying (or maybe it doesn't  ???) that if there is no classes on campus, then there are no sports.  My point was, bringing students back in stages (fall athletes first), then maybe freshamn, then upperclass would allow the groups to be tested in smaller cohorts.  Easing the burden on the schools.

Okay, so now justify the athletes being the first ones back in a way that doesn't confer favoritism due to them being athletes, which not only would be a PR nightmare, but probably an NCAA violation.

Because I have no idea what that justification could possibly be.

Aren't the fall athletes always the first students back on campus? Followed by incoming freshmen for orientation and then the bulk of the student body. I see this as a non-issue. Am I missing something?
"You don't stop playing because you got old, you got old because you stopped playing" 🏈🏀⚾🎿⛳

Ithaca798891

#53233
Quote from: UfanBill on April 24, 2020, 12:36:36 PM
Quote from: Ithaca798891 on April 24, 2020, 10:49:16 AM
Quote from: Oline89 on April 23, 2020, 04:05:56 PM
It goes without saying (or maybe it doesn't  ???) that if there is no classes on campus, then there are no sports.  My point was, bringing students back in stages (fall athletes first), then maybe freshamn, then upperclass would allow the groups to be tested in smaller cohorts.  Easing the burden on the schools.

Okay, so now justify the athletes being the first ones back in a way that doesn't confer favoritism due to them being athletes, which not only would be a PR nightmare, but probably an NCAA violation.

Because I have no idea what that justification could possibly be.

Aren't the fall athletes always the first students back on campus? Followed by incoming freshmen for orientation and then the bulk of the student body. I see this as a non-issue. Am I missing something?

Athletes aren't the only ones who come back early. Why not the RAs, or orientation leaders, or student workers? The RAs and orientation leaders, in particular, would be more critical if you're planning to have the rest of the student body to follow in the coming weeks.

EDIT: And along those lines, I'd think you'd want student employees in certain areas back early too (like the dining hall), if you're going to have thousands of students following them the next week.

Jonny Utah

Quote from: Ithaca798891 on April 24, 2020, 12:57:27 PM
Quote from: UfanBill on April 24, 2020, 12:36:36 PM
Quote from: Ithaca798891 on April 24, 2020, 10:49:16 AM
Quote from: Oline89 on April 23, 2020, 04:05:56 PM
It goes without saying (or maybe it doesn't  ???) that if there is no classes on campus, then there are no sports.  My point was, bringing students back in stages (fall athletes first), then maybe freshamn, then upperclass would allow the groups to be tested in smaller cohorts.  Easing the burden on the schools.

Okay, so now justify the athletes being the first ones back in a way that doesn't confer favoritism due to them being athletes, which not only would be a PR nightmare, but probably an NCAA violation.

Because I have no idea what that justification could possibly be.

Aren't the fall athletes always the first students back on campus? Followed by incoming freshmen for orientation and then the bulk of the student body. I see this as a non-issue. Am I missing something?

Athletes aren't the only ones who come back early. Why not the RAs, or orientation leaders, or student workers? The RAs and orientation leaders, in particular, would be more critical if you're planning to have the rest of the student body to follow in the coming weeks.

EDIT: And along those lines, I'd think you'd want student employees in certain areas back early too (like the dining hall), if you're going to have thousands of students following them the next week.

I think logistically it won't happen the way Oline89 is saying, simply because if you can have 100 players and coaches mixing together, then you can have 30 kids in a class or a dorm mixing together, so in essence, things will be back to normal anyway, so why would you ease the football team back first, why not ease the classroom and dorms back first, and push the season back....

So basically I'm assuming 30 kids in a class or 100 kids in each dorm is going to happen before 100 kids/coaches/trainers/etc on an athletic field.  The can happen at the same time, or if it's like any other year, the 100 athletes come back first.

Some other random thoughts on my own end, is what is going to happen to local High Schools, especially public versus private.  Are kids going to spend money to attend private schools if distance learning continues?  At that point you might as well spend the money on private tutors in addition to your free public school education.  I have also read that many (mostly international) students are steering away from NY and NE schools for the specific reason of this virus (why take your chance at Columbia being shut down when you can go to Vanderbilt or Cal Berkley).  Will this affect LL schools in anyway?