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D3soccer.com => Men's soccer => Topic started by: fishercats on May 19, 2020, 10:51:04 AM

Title: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: fishercats on May 19, 2020, 10:51:04 AM
There hasn't been much discussion on the potential impacts of Covid19 on the upcoming season.

What are teams doing now? Zoom calls? Individual workouts?
How are rosters being impacted? Are kids leaving for less expensive, close to home schools? What does this mean for recruiting?
What potential changes are you hearing for Fall 2020 seasons? Schedule changes? Travel impacts? Tournaments being cancelled?
How are team budgets being impacted? Are some soccer programs being cut?

Some interesting news pieces:

MAC to eliminate 8 postseason tournaments, adjust men's and women's basketball seasons: mac-to-eliminate-eight-postseason-tournaments-adjust-mens-and-womens-basketball-and-volleyball-report.html (//http://)

Division II league in California suspends fall sports: https://www.kbtx.com/content/sports/Division-II-league-in-California-suspends-fall-sports-570419371.html (https://www.kbtx.com/content/sports/Division-II-league-in-California-suspends-fall-sports-570419371.html)
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Ejay on May 19, 2020, 11:31:49 AM
Not a lot of chatter because there's still so many unknowns. And while I'm very hopeful of a full return to fall sports, I'm starting to get more discouraged when I hear that some schools are already changing their fall plans. 

On the D3 level for example, Ithaca won't bring students back until October 5th, which means what - no soccer season at all? an abbreviated season? If I'm a recruit in this senior class, I'm thinking twice about committing (June 1 now for many schools) to a school that may not have a fall season.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: jknezek on May 19, 2020, 12:29:27 PM
Here in AL club sports have started training again with restrictions. There is a lot of talk about college level prospects having a "gap" year and the local top tier club, BUSA or Alabama FC depending on the level you are playing, taking on a team for them. Discussions with ECNL I believe are ongoing on whether they can have Fall and Spring level competition for essentially one year level above what they have traditionally provided.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: CC United on May 19, 2020, 02:15:10 PM
I'm interested in whether the NCAA will grant players waivers if the 2020 season is cut short, assuming it happens at all.  In Division 3, a player uses a year of eligibility if he participates in one official practice for that year.   The NCAA could get in front of the issue. That would help programs and athletes decide what to do when it's time to make a decision.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Another Mom on May 20, 2020, 08:41:21 AM
Re: recruiting-- a head coach just told us that COVID won't hurt the kids already on his radar, and that he'd seen play.  It would hurt those just getting in touch with him now, and that he hadn't seen in person.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PlaySimple on May 20, 2020, 04:00:33 PM
Ithaca College has stated that the fall calendar will start on October 5. (note to EB2319 - I see that you mentioned Ithaca above. I am just adding to what you wrote from what I read on their website)

The plans for athletics seems to be a bit in limbo. From the Ithaca College website:

"I also know many of you will have questions about our athletics programs this fall. Please be assured that our athletics department staff, sports medicine staff, and the director of medicine for IC are working collaboratively to determine a plan and process to re-engage in intercollegiate athletics and recreational sports, and that IC will continue to follow NCAA, NATA, and Liberty League guidelines."

https://www.ithaca.edu/news/college-plans-fall-opening

While D3 athletes are obviously not affected by athletic aid, there will be some interesting implications for spring athletes that missed this past season and, as we get further along in the summer and if it is deemed necessary to cancel the fall sports, the fall athletes that will be affected. If there are some schools that cancel fall seasons while other do not, will this spur transfers? I believe that is going to be a lot more common occurence for the D1, D2, and NAIA athletes, though, as they can receive athletic aid.

I posted some of below on another forum and while it mostly pertains to D1 athletes, there might be some D3 athletes that are also affected. It repeats some of what I already mentioned.

Athletes at all schools and in all divisions that had their seasons canceled this past spring should have another season of eligibility. Some of those athletes are seniors that graduated and may be starting graduate school at another institution. If the graduate program that those athletes are pursing will give them the time to also participate in athletics, I would assume that some would do so. I see that same scenario playing out this upcoming year if athletes get their fall seasons canceled. There will also be a lot of spring sport athletes that will be graduating in the coming years that are going to have another season of eligibility when they graduate.

There have also been a lot of schools that have announced that programs are being cut. Women's soccer has been largely spared but there are men's soccer programs that have been cut, baseball, track and field, cross country, etc. Many of the athletes at those schools, particularly if they're freshmen and sophomores, will be looking at transferring. I'm not sure if the coaches of various sports will be licking their chops with the possible influx of unexpected athletes or if they'll be overwhelmed and confused. This is also going to be confusing for the athletes themselves in deciding what they should do. I see recruiting becoming very different in the coming years with a lot of new dynamics to consider.

Lastly, I can see more and more schools decide that athletics is just not that important and there will be the elimination of sports at many schools. I happen to believe that athletics is an important part of the collegiate experience for many students and it also affords many athletes the opportunity of an education at an institution that they might not have otherwise if they were not an athlete. Look at the many student athletes that are attending some of the Ivies and other Tier 1 schools in all divisions. Athletics opened the door of those schools for many athletes.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: blooter442 on May 20, 2020, 07:46:47 PM
Quote from: CC United on May 19, 2020, 02:15:10 PM
I'm interested in whether the NCAA will grant players waivers if the 2020 season is cut short, assuming it happens at all.  In Division 3, a player uses a year of eligibility if he participates in one official practice for that year.   The NCAA could get in front of the issue. That would help programs and athletes decide what to do when it's time to make a decision.

Pretty sure they gave a year of eligibility to any winter or spring (19-20) athlete whose season was cut short, so I would imagine they would do so for soccer.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Buck O. on May 21, 2020, 08:50:56 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on May 20, 2020, 07:46:47 PM
Quote from: CC United on May 19, 2020, 02:15:10 PM
I'm interested in whether the NCAA will grant players waivers if the 2020 season is cut short, assuming it happens at all.  In Division 3, a player uses a year of eligibility if he participates in one official practice for that year.   The NCAA could get in front of the issue. That would help programs and athletes decide what to do when it's time to make a decision.

Pretty sure they gave a year of eligibility to any winter or spring (19-20) athlete whose season was cut short, so I would imagine they would do so for soccer.

Spring, yes.  But winter? 
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Buck O. on May 21, 2020, 08:53:43 PM
Quote from: fishercats on May 19, 2020, 10:51:04 AM
There hasn't been much discussion on the potential impacts of Covid19 on the upcoming season.

What are teams doing now? Zoom calls? Individual workouts?
How are rosters being impacted? Are kids leaving for less expensive, close to home schools? What does this mean for recruiting?
What potential changes are you hearing for Fall 2020 seasons? Schedule changes? Travel impacts? Tournaments being cancelled?
How are team budgets being impacted? Are some soccer programs being cut?

Some interesting news pieces:

MAC to eliminate 8 postseason tournaments, adjust men's and women's basketball seasons: mac-to-eliminate-eight-postseason-tournaments-adjust-mens-and-womens-basketball-and-volleyball-report.html (//http://)

Division II league in California suspends fall sports: https://www.kbtx.com/content/sports/Division-II-league-in-California-suspends-fall-sports-570419371.html (https://www.kbtx.com/content/sports/Division-II-league-in-California-suspends-fall-sports-570419371.html)

In a similar vein, the A-10 is shortening and regionalizing its schedule, to reduce the amount of overnight travel, and is reducing the number of teams that qualify for the postseason tournament.

https://www.soccerwire.com/news/atlantic-10-conference-mens-and-womens-soccer-to-play-modified-schedule-this-fall/
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: blooter442 on May 22, 2020, 07:26:33 AM
Quote from: Buck O. on May 21, 2020, 08:50:56 PM
Spring, yes.  But winter?

I could be wrong, and perhaps it doesn't apply to all winter athletes, but I believe that the day the pandemic was declared by the WHO (March 11) was immediately before the NCAA indoor track championships (March 12). Prior to the NCAA canceling all future winter and spring championships in the next couple of days, a number of schools pulled their kids from competing – a notable example was Harvard, where a couple of track athletes lashed out at the school via social media, before backtracking once the championships were canceled in full. Either way, indoor track qualifiers for the NCAA meets in all divisions missed out on a chance to compete for a title. Additionally, I'm pretty sure the ski championships were also canceled after the Nordic events, meaning that the Nordic races were held but no alpine events occurred, so there was no combined team championship as usual. And, obviously, March Madness did not happen – it was interesting to hear them postulate about playing behind closed doors, but that obviously did not happen once the pandemic was declared.

In sum: I am not sure if it's blanket eligibility to any athlete who competed during the winter, but I would imagine that if any athletes are going to be reimbursed with winter eligibility it is probably the kids who – individually or with a team – qualified for an NCAA championship but did not get to compete.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Ejay on May 22, 2020, 09:20:50 AM
Quote from: PlaySimple on May 20, 2020, 04:00:33 PM
Lastly, I can see more and more schools decide that athletics is just not that important and there will be the elimination of sports at many schools.

I wouldn't be so quick to think that D3 schools will start eliminating sports. Doing so would eliminate a nice chunk of tuition dollars as many kids are choosing schools specifically for the athletic opportunities they provide. On the D1 level it's a different story because of the ROI disparity due to scholarships, salaries, travel, etc.


Quote from: CC United on May 19, 2020, 02:15:10 PM
I'm interested in whether the NCAA will grant players waivers if the 2020 season is cut short, assuming it happens at all.

How many D3 kids do you think would want to take a 5th year just so they can play one more season? My guess is not many. They'd have to pay another semester tuition, not graduate with their class, put off getting a job, etc.  D3 kids are student-athletes, not athlete-students.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: jknezek on May 22, 2020, 09:35:14 AM
For the level of play at DIII sports, this epidemic might end up being a boon. I see DI and DII schools cutting sports. They are revenue negative at that level. I see DIII schools maintaining sports, they can be revenue positive at our level.

It's really that simple. That's why you see non-revenue sports getting the axe in dribs and drabs right now at those levels. If football is not played this fall, or not played in front of crowds, I suspect the dribs and drabs will turn into a stream. It's a good excuse to do what they've wanted to do anyway. That will push some of those athletes down to DIII schools that will welcome their tuition dollars with open arms.

I also suspect it will put more pressure on the truly elite kids in non-revenue sports like soccer, hockey, tennis, golf, etc. with alternative pro development pathways to take advantage of them more as opposed to college scholarships. Kind of a shame as those are expensive pathways for the most part and some good prospects with low capital will struggle to stay involved.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 22, 2020, 10:59:41 AM
Quote from: EB2319 on May 22, 2020, 09:20:50 AM
Quote from: PlaySimple on May 20, 2020, 04:00:33 PM
Lastly, I can see more and more schools decide that athletics is just not that important and there will be the elimination of sports at many schools.

I wouldn't be so quick to think that D3 schools will start eliminating sports. Doing so would eliminate a nice chunk of tuition dollars as many kids are choosing schools specifically for the athletic opportunities they provide. On the D1 level it's a different story because of the ROI disparity due to scholarships, salaries, travel, etc.

Excellent point. I know that many people who post on d3boards.com like to use D1 examples to illustrate their points, but in most cases that's not a good idea. In this instance, in which we're talking about admissions and institutional revenue, it's totally counterproductive to mention what D1 institutions are doing this fall at all. D3 and D1 are apples and oranges in those aspects, and any examples people might want to use from D1 are therefore not germane at all to the topic.

Quote from: CC United on May 19, 2020, 02:15:10 PM
I'm interested in whether the NCAA will grant players waivers if the 2020 season is cut short, assuming it happens at all.

Quote from: EB2319 on May 22, 2020, 09:20:50 AMHow many D3 kids do you think would want to take a 5th year just so they can play one more season? My guess is not many. They'd have to pay another semester tuition, not graduate with their class, put off getting a job, etc.  D3 kids are student-athletes, not athlete-students.

True enough. It might come down to factors such as disposable family income (which for a lot of people will likely be very different in a post-quarantine-crash economic environment than it is at the moment); the continuing availability of whatever non-athletic scholarships or other financial aid the school has to give to a fifth-year student; the cost of tuition, with or without r&b (cost being a pretty serious variable if you're talking about the difference between a SUNY-Oneonta student-athlete and a Hartwick student-athlete); the availability of summer and holiday-season employment; and the overall job market for new college graduates.

Quote from: jknezek on May 22, 2020, 09:35:14 AM
For the level of play at DIII sports, this epidemic might end up being a boon. I see DI and DII schools cutting sports. They are revenue negative at that level. I see DIII schools maintaining sports, they can be revenue positive at our level.

That occurred to me a week ago today when Bowling Green announced that it was cutting baseball, effective immediately, specifically because of pandemic-induced restructuring. My first thought as a D3 baseball fan was, "Well, there's three dozen baseball student-athletes now available on the market, which, either directly or indirectly through D1 and D2 recruiting displacement, means three dozen more guys who will at least consider enrolling as a baseball-playing student-athlete at a D3 school."

Quote from: jknezek on May 22, 2020, 09:35:14 AMIt's really that simple. That's why you see non-revenue sports getting the axe in dribs and drabs right now at those levels. If football is not played this fall, or not played in front of crowds, I suspect the dribs and drabs will turn into a stream. It's a good excuse to do what they've wanted to do anyway. That will push some of those athletes down to DIII schools that will welcome their tuition dollars with open arms.

I also suspect it will put more pressure on the truly elite kids in non-revenue sports like soccer, hockey, tennis, golf, etc. with alternative pro development pathways to take advantage of them more as opposed to college scholarships. Kind of a shame as those are expensive pathways for the most part and some good prospects with low capital will struggle to stay involved.

Good point, and one soccer-specific matter that I hadn't considered until now is how this is going to impact clubs. Several sports are club-oriented or travel-team-oriented at the high school and middle school levels -- basketball, volleyball, baseball, and softball as well as soccer -- but in soccer the club influence is particularly acute.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: NoSuchThingAsOffsides on May 22, 2020, 02:05:08 PM
Schools that are staking out dates now are likely ones that are heavily tuition dependent. They are trying to assuage fears of students not returning and convince students to make their deposits.

Also, the number of coaches who are working to convince students to pay for an additional year against their best interest is definitely non-zero.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: YoungBuck on May 22, 2020, 06:44:52 PM
Quote from: Buck O. on May 21, 2020, 08:53:43 PM
In a similar vein, the A-10 is shortening and regionalizing its schedule, to reduce the amount of overnight travel, and is reducing the number of teams that qualify for the postseason tournament.

https://www.soccerwire.com/news/atlantic-10-conference-mens-and-womens-soccer-to-play-modified-schedule-this-fall/
This is one area that I think it's safe to say DIII will be in line with DI. Schools will almost certainly be looking to reduce travel costs for programs that don't get shut down completely, meaning regionalized schedules and reductions to overnight travel before conference and national tournaments.

An unintended consequence of this could be further isolation of the Western region schools. A geographically isolated school like Whitworth or Puget Sound is going to have a lot harder time cutting travel costs than any of Eastern PA/NJ/NE schools. I wouldn't be shocked if some of those programs announced program cuts or reduced schedules, which could give their top recruits reason to pick an East coast school going forward (extra 5-10 games per year).

Another unintended consequence to consider could be impacts to SoS. If Chicago or Emory or any other top program from the Midwest or south restricts their non-conference schedule to 50-100 miles or so, their SoS would presumably drop way off, while Messiah or F&M would still be able to find strong teams out of conference nearby. Assuming we have a 2020 season and national tournament, the Pool C selections are going to be a struggle to come up with.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 22, 2020, 07:43:52 PM
Quote from: YoungBuck on May 22, 2020, 06:44:52 PM
Quote from: Buck O. on May 21, 2020, 08:53:43 PM
In a similar vein, the A-10 is shortening and regionalizing its schedule, to reduce the amount of overnight travel, and is reducing the number of teams that qualify for the postseason tournament.

https://www.soccerwire.com/news/atlantic-10-conference-mens-and-womens-soccer-to-play-modified-schedule-this-fall/
This is one area that I think it's safe to say DIII will be in line with DI. Schools will almost certainly be looking to reduce travel costs for programs that don't get shut down completely, meaning regionalized schedules and reductions to overnight travel before conference and national tournaments.

An unintended consequence of this could be further isolation of the Western region schools. A geographically isolated school like Whitworth or Puget Sound is going to have a lot harder time cutting travel costs than any of Eastern PA/NJ/NE schools. I wouldn't be shocked if some of those programs announced program cuts or reduced schedules, which could give their top recruits reason to pick an East coast school going forward (extra 5-10 games per year).

I don't know why they'd necessarily pick an East Coast school. It'd be just as easy to pick a school in the Midwest, and flights to and from school would be cheaper.

Anyway, I think that you're overstating the matter regarding scheduling for the NWC and SCIAC, at least in terms of men's soccer. The NWC plays a double round-robin, which means that 14 of their 18 games apiece are already accounted for in-house. If nobody is seeking to go to Oregon or Washington in order to play them, or if they find themselves in a situation in which they can't spend the money to leave the Pacific Northwest in order to play D3 games, there's always the local NAIA league -- the Cascades Collegiate Conference, 14 teams strong in men's soccer -- that would undoubtedly be looking for local games for the same reason.

As for the SCIAC, it currently plays a hybrid schedule -- not quite a double round-robin, but more than a single round-robin -- of 12 conference games in men's soccer. A full double round-robin would up that total to 16 games, meaning that SCIAC teams would only need to find two non-conference opponents apiece to round out their regular season. That's eminently doable, even if they, too, would have to stay close to home and play local NAIA soccer teams. (Their geographical footprint is covered by two NAIA leagues, the GSAC and the Cal Pac.)

Quote from: YoungBuck on May 22, 2020, 06:44:52 PMAnother unintended consequence to consider could be impacts to SoS. If Chicago or Emory or any other top program from the Midwest or south restricts their non-conference schedule to 50-100 miles or so, their SoS would presumably drop way off, while Messiah or F&M would still be able to find strong teams out of conference nearby. Assuming we have a 2020 season and national tournament, the Pool C selections are going to be a struggle to come up with.

That doesn't necessarily follow. I do think that D3's geography would make it pretty difficult for Emory or Wash U to construct a solid non-con schedule, SoS-wise, if relegated to a 100-mile radius of campus, simply because there just aren't enough teams within that radius to work with. But Chicago and Case Western Reserve wouldn't have that problem. Then again, we're talking about the wrong league for your "unintended consequence" hypothetical, because the UAA schools aren't the ones that are going to have budget issues of this kind.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: backheel18 on May 22, 2020, 08:22:52 PM
I am hearing that some schools are cutting their numbers of interns and assistants to try to save the schools money.  One area that I really feel has improved from the time that I played (2003) is the number of schools that have full time coaches and then have brought in paid assistants or interns.  Could we see some smaller schools go back to part-time coaches?  Or the older model where coaches had to help with another team outside of their season? 
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on May 23, 2020, 01:59:20 PM
YoungBuck, do not be deterred!  The only unintended consequence, or consequence period, that would be truly surprising would be a lack of any.

My two cents...

In terms of relevance to D1, I think we can pretty safely say that D1 sports happening in the Fall is a prerequisite for D3 happening.  D1 football seems hell-bent on happening, for some obvious very good reasons, but certainly there could be more twists and turns in terms of whether that really happens.  Just like with the NBA, NHL, MLB, NFL, MLS, etc, proceeding loses certitude the more one gets into the details about how everything is going to work. 

As a parent and/or D3 recruit, I would be far more concerned about the long-term viability of a college/university than whether any particular college has a Fall season or not.  We have no idea what is going to happen in the Fall....ANYWHERE.  Maybe on those grounds the PAC NW might even be the safest bet.  Schools in the Northeast, New England and Midwest might appear to have better logistical situations, but what happens if there is a surge/outbreak in Boston, Philly, Chicago, etc in Sept or Oct or right when your team is entering conference and NCAA tourney play?  What happens when several players on a team test +?  What happens when some institutions in a conference don't play or have their play interrupted while other schools in the conference don't?  There are also conferences where member schools are well over 100 miles apart, even in the NESCAC (Colby to Hamilton, any NESCAC to Hamilton and vice versa, Colby to Williams or Midd, etc, etc).  How about Trinity to Colorado College?  Centre to Millsaps?  Obviously these examples could go on and on.

Everybody wants to play, and I'm sure most believe we should play, but when you get into exactly how that is going to happen all becomes murky.  And of course the lack of visibility applies to virtually everything.  D1 sports.  Pro sports.  Jobs/work.  How the election will be impacted (and whether the candidates will be who we think they will be). 

The old adage of pick a school where you'll still be happy if things don't work out (tearing an ACL, conflict with the coach, lack of playing time, loss of interest....or a pandemic) has taken on even more meaning.

Strange, tough times.

And then there's hurricane season....

Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: WUPHF on May 26, 2020, 01:28:13 AM
I am not sure I understand the logic behind the 100 mile limit.

I am just guessing, but if the NCAA asks schools to limit their commutes, they will allow for 500 or more miles with exceptions.  If they do this, I also think they will preemptively cancel the postseason, tempering SOS concerns.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: d4_Pace on May 26, 2020, 12:17:11 PM
I mean if you're going to cancel the postseason might as well get rid of the whole thing.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: WUPHF on May 26, 2020, 01:21:58 PM
Quote from: d4_Pace on May 26, 2020, 12:17:11 PM
I mean if you're going to cancel the postseason might as well get rid of the whole thing.

I disagree wholeheartedly, but I am one of those guys that turns out for the Spring season, so...
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: OldNed on May 26, 2020, 02:18:31 PM
In light of this conversation, as well as what's going on with my son who is now an assistant at a D1 program, I was a little shocked to receive a twitter notification that St. Joe's of Maine just released their Fall schedule, and it begins on September 1. 

https://www.gomonks.com/sports/msoc/2020-21/schedule
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: d4_Pace on May 26, 2020, 03:08:28 PM
I mean I completely understand loving to play. But if you're a team thats used to competing for championships its gonna be hard to be fully motivated playing 15 games and then nothing. 
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on May 26, 2020, 03:52:18 PM
D4....is there any tension between your perspective as a 2nd year med student and your perspective as a Tufts national champion alum/superfan looking for a Tufts clean sweep of the 2020s?  And when can we expect your Too-Early-Preseason-Top 10?
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: d4_Pace on May 26, 2020, 04:41:15 PM
Hi Paul, I think ultimately safety is the number one priority and as much as soccer was such a huge part of all these guys/my life, it does not take priority in this situation. 

That being said it would be heartbreaking for all the seniors on the team to not get a chance to make a run at the title one last time. 
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: WUPHF on May 26, 2020, 06:30:54 PM
Quote from: d4_Pace on May 26, 2020, 03:08:28 PM
I mean I completely understand loving to play. But if you're a team thats used to competing for championships its gonna be hard to be fully motivated playing 15 games and then nothing.

When you put it that way, I get it.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Buck O. on May 26, 2020, 11:33:25 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on May 22, 2020, 07:26:33 AM
Quote from: Buck O. on May 21, 2020, 08:50:56 PM
Spring, yes.  But winter?

I could be wrong, and perhaps it doesn't apply to all winter athletes, but I believe that the day the pandemic was declared by the WHO (March 11) was immediately before the NCAA indoor track championships (March 12). Prior to the NCAA canceling all future winter and spring championships in the next couple of days, a number of schools pulled their kids from competing – a notable example was Harvard, where a couple of track athletes lashed out at the school via social media, before backtracking once the championships were canceled in full. Either way, indoor track qualifiers for the NCAA meets in all divisions missed out on a chance to compete for a title. Additionally, I'm pretty sure the ski championships were also canceled after the Nordic events, meaning that the Nordic races were held but no alpine events occurred, so there was no combined team championship as usual. And, obviously, March Madness did not happen – it was interesting to hear them postulate about playing behind closed doors, but that obviously did not happen once the pandemic was declared.

In sum: I am not sure if it's blanket eligibility to any athlete who competed during the winter, but I would imagine that if any athletes are going to be reimbursed with winter eligibility it is probably the kids who – individually or with a team – qualified for an NCAA championship but did not get to compete.

In D1, only athletes in spring sports are getting an extension of eligibility:

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/division-i-council-extends-eligibility-student-athletes-impacted-covid-19
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on May 27, 2020, 10:33:30 AM
Quote from: d4_Pace on May 26, 2020, 04:41:15 PM
Hi Paul, I think ultimately safety is the number one priority and as much as soccer was such a huge part of all these guys/my life, it does not take priority in this situation. 

That being said it would be heartbreaking for all the seniors on the team to not get a chance to make a run at the title one last time.

I'm sure this won't surprise you, but I can't quite work my way up to "heartbreaking."  Heartbreaking because the Tufts seniors don't get a chance for a 3rd title in four years? 

I can agree that not having a season, or having a season that gets cuts short, or having a season without a postseason would be or will be devastating to most seniors, especially those on competitive teams who are excited about their last run with hopes of a special season, or just a a last season with their teammates.  I have no doubt that not having a chance to go "all the way" would be devastating to seniors at Calvin, Amherst, North Park, etc and to other teams that have been knocking on the door like F&M, Kenyon, Hopkins and W&L.  And the same for dozens of other teams believing a magical run is possible akin to the one Colby made a couple of years ago or Centre last year.  And I'll feel almost as badly for frosh coming in who have so eagerly anticipated stepping on to their college team and hoping that they will enjoy a great team experience and make an impact.

The situation definitely sucks....in countless ways.  The Spring season athletes who lost a season, including all of those seniors.  Graduating seniors all over the country in high schools and colleges.  All those looking forward to their high school senior seasons.  All the professional teams hoping to win a ring.  All the college bball players who lost a chance at NCAA tourney glory.  The tons and tons of young people unsure if they will be returning to college this year and those having their graduate programs, law school, and med school compromised or even put on hold. 

One thing is for sure (even if we have a full D3 season).  We'll never forget 2020.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: d4_Pace on May 27, 2020, 11:20:12 AM
I would say its equally sad for the seniors of every school in the country. Whatever their situation is they  have spent three years working towards the moment to finally lead their team. They've spent 15 plus years playing soccer and finally have one last go. 

Obviously, once again some perspective is required because not getting to play a season of a sport pales in comparison to what other people are going through. But I guess you say devastating I say heartbreaking, either way it sucks. 
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: jknezek on May 27, 2020, 11:36:03 AM
Completely agree. It sucks. On the upside, soccer is not like football or some other sports where it pretty much stops at the end of college. There are lots of men's and women's and coed leagues throughout the country. So yeah, it sucks to be done collegiately if that happens. A total gyp by any measure and I feel truly awful for those young men and women.

Fortunately soccer is not a sport that you essentially lose forever at that point. Try being a field hockey player or football or wrestling (though adult wrestling is picking up some steam thanks to MMA). You have, for all intents and purposes, played your very last game ever if those seasons are cancelled. Soccer, basketball, track, swimming, tennis, golf and more all at least have outlets as adults.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on May 27, 2020, 11:48:33 AM
Quote from: d4_Pace on May 27, 2020, 11:20:12 AM
I would say its equally sad for the seniors of every school in the country. Whatever their situation is they  have spent three years working towards the moment to finally lead their team. They've spent 15 plus years playing soccer and finally have one last go. 

Obviously, once again some perspective is required because not getting to play a season of a sport pales in comparison to what other people are going through. But I guess you say devastating I say heartbreaking, either way it sucks.

I think we're on the same page, including with the semantics.  I was only contesting the idea of heartbreaking (or devastating) being peculiar to Tufts.  You clarified that you meant or mean all teams.

I sincerely hope your med school is moving forward in a productive and reasonable way.  So many people have gotten caught and are in limbo.  My kid just made it under the wire to qualify as a 4th year for early graduation and is slotted to start internship/residency in Boston in a couple of weeks.  He's very lucky, although starting out residency in the middle of Covid will be interesting/challenging.  I feel for new 4th years who will have to navigate applying and interviewing for residency this Fall.  My son's wife was in the middle of her second year of PA school, and her program is on hold with no clear indications about when clinicals will resume and when she'll graduate (to help start paying off all of their debt).
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 27, 2020, 11:52:59 AM
One of my nephews started his residency this winter at a major hospital in upstate New York as an ER physician.

From what I hear, he's getting the kind of education via trial by fire that no young doctor ever expects to get.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: blooter442 on May 27, 2020, 06:48:49 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 27, 2020, 11:52:59 AM
One of my nephews started his residency this winter at a major hospital in upstate New York as an ER physician.

From what I hear, he's getting the kind of education via trial by fire that no young doctor ever expects to get.

I can imagine it's a heck of a time to be getting your chops in the ER — one of my good Brandeis friends is moving to Portland, ME (near me) soon to be a resident at Maine Medical Center. She just graduated from med school this spring...the adage "out of the frying pan, into the fire!" seems adept!
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Hopkins92 on May 28, 2020, 12:34:42 PM
Interesting conversation... A couple of points:

1) Perhaps this is obvious, but a number of D1 schools are stating that playing Fall sports is contingent on there being in-person/on-campus classes. Michigan is on record saying they won't play Fall sports if classes/activities are virtual. Just something to keep an eye on... Not sure how you have a season when individual schools are making individual decisions. I assume MI is talking to the rest of the conference, but who knows.

2) https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/luke-decock/article242902546.html  For short synopsis of that article: "Cutting sports like swimming and wrestling could cost a D1 school more money than it saves." There's obviously a lot more to the story, but I just wanted to challenge the idea that Athletic Department's are being straight about the economics of cutting programs. It's also quite annoying that these extremely bloated departments are paying a bunch of suits 6 figure salaries, while cutting programs.

/soap box
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Ejay on May 28, 2020, 02:45:09 PM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on May 28, 2020, 12:34:42 PM
It's also quite annoying that these extremely bloated departments are paying a bunch of suits 6 figure salaries, while cutting programs.

Forget the 6-figure suits.  What about the 7-figure football coaches? The Purdue coach is the 8th highest paid college football coach in the country ($6.6 million), and they've had 1 winning season (7-6) in the last 8 years.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Hopkins92 on May 28, 2020, 03:15:24 PM
I mean, I don't want to get completely side-tracked, but the idea that all of these adults get paid pretty obscene amounts of money and we're still pretending it's not a business that should compensate its employees is ridiculous. If all of these salaries and the TV money and the bowl game nonsense were on the more reasonable side (as it was up until around the mid-80s, it wouldn't be such a farce.

Also, quick update is that MI's provost came out today saying she is "very optimistic" that students will be back on campus in the fall. That's a pretty dramatic shift from "cautiously optimistic" from last week.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Ejay on May 28, 2020, 03:27:10 PM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on May 28, 2020, 12:34:42 PM
a number of D1 schools are stating that playing Fall sports is contingent on there being in-person/on-campus classes.

Didn't the NCAA already say no students on campus = no sports? Or has that changed?
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Hopkins92 on May 28, 2020, 04:02:18 PM
Quote from: EB2319 on May 28, 2020, 03:27:10 PM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on May 28, 2020, 12:34:42 PM
a number of D1 schools are stating that playing Fall sports is contingent on there being in-person/on-campus classes.

Didn't the NCAA already say no students on campus = no sports? Or has that changed?

Yeah, good clarification... I hadn't seen Emmert's statement until I googled it just now (not sure how I missed it.) I also kind of skimmed the first page that had a lot of info, so apologies if someone mentioned it here.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: OldNed on May 28, 2020, 07:29:09 PM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on May 28, 2020, 12:34:42 PM
Interesting conversation... A couple of points:

1) Perhaps this is obvious, but a number of D1 schools are stating that playing Fall sports is contingent on there being in-person/on-campus classes. Michigan is on record saying they won't play Fall sports if classes/activities are virtual. Just something to keep an eye on... Not sure how you have a season when individual schools are making individual decisions. I assume MI is talking to the rest of the conference, but who knows.

2) https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/luke-decock/article242902546.html  For short synopsis of that article: "Cutting sports like swimming and wrestling could cost a D1 school more money than it saves." There's obviously a lot more to the story, but I just wanted to challenge the idea that Athletic Department's are being straight about the economics of cutting programs. It's also quite annoying that these extremely bloated departments are paying a bunch of suits 6 figure salaries, while cutting programs.

/soap box

Regarding point #1, my wife teaches for a D1 university and the preliminary word is that the students will be on campus in the Fall, although they are going to take steps to limit in-class attendance in the interests of social distancing.  Not sure how the heck that will work in the dorms, though...
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Hopkins92 on May 29, 2020, 01:42:29 PM
Quote from: OldNed on May 28, 2020, 07:29:09 PM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on May 28, 2020, 12:34:42 PM
Interesting conversation... A couple of points:

1) Perhaps this is obvious, but a number of D1 schools are stating that playing Fall sports is contingent on there being in-person/on-campus classes. Michigan is on record saying they won't play Fall sports if classes/activities are virtual. Just something to keep an eye on... Not sure how you have a season when individual schools are making individual decisions. I assume MI is talking to the rest of the conference, but who knows.

2) https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/luke-decock/article242902546.html  For short synopsis of that article: "Cutting sports like swimming and wrestling could cost a D1 school more money than it saves." There's obviously a lot more to the story, but I just wanted to challenge the idea that Athletic Department's are being straight about the economics of cutting programs. It's also quite annoying that these extremely bloated departments are paying a bunch of suits 6 figure salaries, while cutting programs.

/soap box

Regarding point #1, my wife teaches for a D1 university and the preliminary word is that the students will be on campus in the Fall, although they are going to take steps to limit in-class attendance in the interests of social distancing.  Not sure how the heck that will work in the dorms, though...

I have two kids at D1 schools and there are number of scenarios being thrown out there. One scenario is that incoming freshmen and seniors will be on campus, and they will be single occupancy dorms and the overflow will be in nearby hotels. I *think* that's a scenario being discussed by MIT. Not sure, but I know I've read that as one option.

Another scenario I've heard is that students whose education relies on labs or other in-person would be on campus, while others would remain virtual in the Fall.

Lots of other things being floated, but those seemed interesting enough to share.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Flying Weasel on May 29, 2020, 03:51:13 PM
https://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/diii-reduces-number-required-contests?fbclid=IwAR33TfULmAUlxw4j9M4GeBOSnDXXjJMD99O2l_Hgc5YKlUW6VCqaKKNQ5So

QuoteDIII reduces number of required contests
Minimums needed for championship selection and sports sponsorship lowered by
33% in all sports for the 2020-21 school year

May 29, 2020 3:09pm  |  Rachel Stern

The minimum number of contests required for sports sponsorship and championship selection in Division III have been reduced by 33% in all sports for the 2020-21 academic year.

The Division III Administrative Committee approved the reductions during a videoconference Thursday in response to recommendations from the Division III Membership and Championships Committees. The minimum number of required participants will stay the same.

"We hope that a reduction in contest minimums will provide flexibility to our member schools as they work to reopen during what is a very uncertain and complex time. We understand this won't fix everything for everyone, but we believe it is the right move at this time and we will remain flexible moving forward," said Tori Murden McClure, chair of the committee and Spalding president.

. . .

The committee noted that both the Membership and Championships Committees are committed to flexibility in making decisions in this rapidly changing climate. The intention right now is to conduct fall championships as scheduled.

. . .

Here are the revised sport-by-sport contest minimums for the 2020-21 academic year:
. . .
- Men's soccer: 9.
- Women's soccer: 9.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 29, 2020, 04:37:29 PM
Move was to be expected across the board. It doesn't mean too much in the grand scheme of things other than institutions that may be struggling can hit lower numbers to still fall into compliance with the NCAA (their fellow members) and even qualify for the tournaments.

The maximums will likely not change, so teams are still able to play as many as their institution will allow.

I am hearing schools are starting to put restrictions in place like "non-conference games must be a same-day travel opponent." Meaning some will have far less options in terms of opponents including quality. That will have a larger impact on things.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Stryker on June 01, 2020, 04:52:11 PM
I agree. The reduction of minimum # of games to qualify for tournament play cuts both ways, allowing flexibility for some teams to be able to play while also narrowing the window to qualify. For example, there are competitive teams in strong conferences that rely on non-conference games against quality opponents to try to overcome the expected losses to the perennial powers in order to improve their chances to make the tournament. With travel limitations and other expected changes, that may no longer be possible. 9 games would basically be the conference schedule for my kid's team. Yes, they may be able to play some more games against some other local teams, but the quality may not be the same. That puts more emphasis on the league games.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Flying Weasel on June 01, 2020, 05:00:19 PM
I haven't been checking on other schools, but today Messiah University (not sure I'll ever get used to that) has announced that the Fall Semester will go forward with in-person instruction and on-campus housing available for all students.  In order to minimize travel and the potential to spread the virus, the semester will actually start one week earlier, will not include a fall break, and classes will conclude before Thanksgiving with finals being completed remotely after Thanksgiving.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Flying Weasel on June 01, 2020, 05:10:22 PM
If teams are restricted in their travel for away games (whether by their own school, or by their conference or the NCAA), given how Strength of Schedule works and factors into tournament selection, they would probably be better off in that respect to simply taking advantage of the reduction in required number of contests rather than playing week local competition to fill the schedule.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on June 01, 2020, 05:24:42 PM
Might be time to put SoS aside for a year.  There are going to be adjustments and compromises across the board for professional and college sports.  One solution may be that there ends up being no tournament.  But even a 16 team tournament, picked by the Chair and the regional committees, would be better than nothing.  It will be interesting to see how creative and innovative the NCAA will be if needed.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Stryker on June 02, 2020, 02:15:43 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on June 01, 2020, 05:24:42 PM
Might be time to put SoS aside for a year.  There are going to be adjustments and compromises across the board for professional and college sports.  One solution may be that there ends up being no tournament.  But even a 16 team tournament, picked by the Chair and the regional committees, would be better than nothing.  It will be interesting to see how creative and innovative the NCAA will be if needed.

You may be right. I don't envy the NCAA. If the NCAA decides not to have a tournament or has a tournament with fewer qualifying teams, there is a real risk that a lot of current players will choose to red-shirt this season. How that will affect the ability of schools to field a team is an unknown. My kid is in a 5 year program and has flexibility to red-shirt. Trying to balance role as team leader against desire to maximize number of chances to participate in the NCAA tournament. Would definitely red-shirt if no tournament. Unclear what the choice will be if the NCAA decides to have a reduced tournament or if the NCAA fails to announce its plans for the tournament before the season starts. 
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 02, 2020, 02:23:21 PM
Remember ... by "NCAA" we mean Division III members. The division makes decisions for itself. Overall decisions like the cancelation of March Madness and all other championships certainly was made higher up, but not without long conversations with membership and particular boards.

The biggest reason for the minimums to be reduced had more to do with helping schools who may be struggling financially especially due to the current climate keep their programs up to the standards that qualify for NCAA membership. It has less to do with championship tournaments, honestly. Yes, the tournaments are part of the minimums, but the focus on the reduction of minimums was more to keep membership from having problems with their membership.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on June 02, 2020, 03:03:13 PM
Quote from: Stryker on June 02, 2020, 02:15:43 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on June 01, 2020, 05:24:42 PM
Might be time to put SoS aside for a year.  There are going to be adjustments and compromises across the board for professional and college sports.  One solution may be that there ends up being no tournament.  But even a 16 team tournament, picked by the Chair and the regional committees, would be better than nothing.  It will be interesting to see how creative and innovative the NCAA will be if needed.

You may be right. I don't envy the NCAA. If the NCAA decides not to have a tournament or has a tournament with fewer qualifying teams, there is a real risk that a lot of current players will choose to red-shirt this season. How that will affect the ability of schools to field a team is an unknown. My kid is in a 5 year program and has flexibility to red-shirt. Trying to balance role as team leader against desire to maximize number of chances to participate in the NCAA tournament. Would definitely red-shirt if no tournament. Unclear what the choice will be if the NCAA decides to have a reduced tournament or if the NCAA fails to announce its plans for the tournament before the season starts.

Obviously college students, including those looking forward to their frosh years, and their parents, will all have to make their own decisions based on what they know at each critical decision point.  I know I would be very reluctant to send a kid off to college for the first time, or I guess even as a soph, junior, or senior, IF all the indicators suggested a very compromised, watered down college experience (and in that respect I'm not even including the athletic piece).  Sounds like your kid has some flexibility and options that few will have in terms of a "redshirt" year that doesn't involve putting a life on hold for D3 soccer, paying an extra 45-70K for the privilege, or waiting out using one's four years of eligibility by just waiting a year to go back to school.  I have to admit I don't really get having soccer be, at the D3 level, the deciding factor, but I also know there are some kids who basically are only going to college even at D3 to keep playing soccer.  To each his or her own I suppose.  Beyond that, I also think the risk of miscalculating (in hindsight) is high.  A kid could skip this year based on your reasoning above, and then THIS season could be the one where his team makes the tournament.  Or a kid could wait and a team could miss out because of events out of their control that dropped their SoS from a projected .580 to .535, a "loss" in PKs in a conference final, and/or a string of key injuries at the wrong time of the season.  Seeing a couple of handfuls of schools make the tournament every year or most years doesn't mean that a NCAA tourney bid can ever be taken for granted.  It is very, very easy to NOT make the tournament.  Anyway, overall I get it.  When you are in the middle of it, and especially when your team has a real shot and is on a real run, there's not much better (for kid and parent)....all the years since age four or so, the indoor phase, the period of thinking your kid might be pretty good, watching your kid in exciting high school and club games, and having all of that lived history crescendo into a shot at glory with teammates your kid has grown to love feels really, really, really good.  But one way or another, it's over, and it's over abruptly.  Of course there is the second "career" to look forward to as an obnoxious and insufferable parent alum who poses as a pundit for another decade  ;) on d3soccer.com.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Gregory Sager on June 02, 2020, 03:09:44 PM
Quote from: Stryker on June 02, 2020, 02:15:43 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on June 01, 2020, 05:24:42 PM
Might be time to put SoS aside for a year.  There are going to be adjustments and compromises across the board for professional and college sports.  One solution may be that there ends up being no tournament.  But even a 16 team tournament, picked by the Chair and the regional committees, would be better than nothing.  It will be interesting to see how creative and innovative the NCAA will be if needed.

You may be right. I don't envy the NCAA. If the NCAA decides not to have a tournament or has a tournament with fewer qualifying teams, there is a real risk that a lot of current players will choose to red-shirt this season. How that will affect the ability of schools to field a team is an unknown. My kid is in a 5 year program and has flexibility to red-shirt. Trying to balance role as team leader against desire to maximize number of chances to participate in the NCAA tournament. Would definitely red-shirt if no tournament. Unclear what the choice will be if the NCAA decides to have a reduced tournament or if the NCAA fails to announce its plans for the tournament before the season starts.

Redshirting is not permitted in D3. If you practice with the team, you're using up one of your four years of eligibility regardless of whether you dress for games or not.

You may be confusing redshirting with grayshirting (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=3735.0).
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 02, 2020, 03:30:44 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on June 02, 2020, 03:09:44 PM
Quote from: Stryker on June 02, 2020, 02:15:43 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on June 01, 2020, 05:24:42 PM
Might be time to put SoS aside for a year.  There are going to be adjustments and compromises across the board for professional and college sports.  One solution may be that there ends up being no tournament.  But even a 16 team tournament, picked by the Chair and the regional committees, would be better than nothing.  It will be interesting to see how creative and innovative the NCAA will be if needed.

You may be right. I don't envy the NCAA. If the NCAA decides not to have a tournament or has a tournament with fewer qualifying teams, there is a real risk that a lot of current players will choose to red-shirt this season. How that will affect the ability of schools to field a team is an unknown. My kid is in a 5 year program and has flexibility to red-shirt. Trying to balance role as team leader against desire to maximize number of chances to participate in the NCAA tournament. Would definitely red-shirt if no tournament. Unclear what the choice will be if the NCAA decides to have a reduced tournament or if the NCAA fails to announce its plans for the tournament before the season starts.

Redshirting is not permitted in D3. If you practice with the team, you're using up one of your four years of eligibility regardless of whether you dress for games or not.

You may be confusing redshirting with grayshirting (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=3735.0).

And there is a crack down on grayshirting, which I think Sager is hinting at there.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Stryker on June 02, 2020, 05:40:46 PM
Good points and thanks for the info. I'm not one of those that knows all the rules, my kid does though. That's why I appreciate boards like these.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Stryker on June 02, 2020, 05:54:16 PM
 Of course there is the second "career" to look forward to as an obnoxious and insufferable parent alum who poses as a pundit for another decade  ;) on d3soccer.com.
[/quote]

View you more as a resource of knowledge. Your comments echo many of the points that I have made with my kid and helps make informed decisions. Can only be a soccer player for so long . In contrast, will be an engineer for rest of lifetime.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on June 02, 2020, 06:16:28 PM
Quote from: Stryker on June 02, 2020, 05:54:16 PM
Of course there is the second "career" to look forward to as an obnoxious and insufferable parent alum who poses as a pundit for another decade  ;) on d3soccer.com.

View you more as a resource of knowledge. Your comments echo many of the points that I have made with my kid and helps make informed decisions. Can only be a soccer player for so long . In contrast, will be an engineer for rest of lifetime.
[/quote]

You're going to do very well.  You handled the little "education" you got here much better than I or many other posters would have.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Ejay on June 02, 2020, 06:53:00 PM
Quote from: Stryker on June 02, 2020, 05:54:16 PM
View you more as a resource of knowledge. Your comments echo many of the points that I have made with my kid and helps make informed decisions. Can only be a soccer player for so long . In contrast, will be an engineer for rest of lifetime.

Stick around and you'll see what he means ;-)
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: fishercats on June 10, 2020, 11:02:08 AM
I saw mention that the NCAA may allow DIII sports to start earlier in August this year. Any word or details on that?

Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: CC United on June 10, 2020, 01:00:36 PM
The link below is the 2020 NCAA Division III COVID-19 Question and Answer Guide, updated June 8.  It's also available at NCAA.org. See page 16, question 2 at the bottom.  It looks like preseason start dates remain the same for now, but I have no inside information.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 10, 2020, 03:32:34 PM
Quote from: CC United on June 10, 2020, 01:00:36 PM
The link below is the 2020 NCAA Division III COVID-19 Question and Answer Guide, updated June 8.  It's also available at NCAA.org. See page 16, question 2 at the bottom.  It looks like preseason start dates remain the same for now, but I have no inside information.

No link as of yet, but no, DIII has not changed it's dates at this time. They are likely not going to change dates and leave it up to individual schools and conferences to make their own adjustments. Changing the overall dates is unfair to those who may be able to meet those dates. Those dates are broad guides anyway. NESCAC schools have started practices later than a lot of conferences in a lot of sports ... no ones says you have to start on that date.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: CC United on June 10, 2020, 06:05:04 PM
https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/compliance/d3/2020D3AMA_COVID19QandAGuide.pdf

Here's the link. Not sure why it didn't go through.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 11, 2020, 03:41:52 PM
FYI: http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/division-iii-increases-length-fall-sports-preseasons
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: fishercats on June 12, 2020, 08:25:39 AM
Thanks...this was the decision I was hearing about.


Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 11, 2020, 03:41:52 PM
FYI: http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/division-iii-increases-length-fall-sports-preseasons
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Golden_Fan on June 17, 2020, 11:14:14 AM
News coming from the SUNYAC... They will be splitting into East and West divisions virtually eliminating the need for overnights. An interesting piece to note is that - "members of the two divisions potentially could schedule non-conference crossover contests against each other that would have no impact on the SUNYAC standings."

https://sunyacsports.com/general/2019-20/releases/20200617dwjbxn (https://sunyacsports.com/general/2019-20/releases/20200617dwjbxn)
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 17, 2020, 06:48:21 PM
Quote from: Golden_Fan on June 17, 2020, 11:14:14 AM
News coming from the SUNYAC... They will be splitting into East and West divisions virtually eliminating the need for overnights. An interesting piece to note is that - "members of the two divisions potentially could schedule non-conference crossover contests against each other that would have no impact on the SUNYAC standings."

https://sunyacsports.com/general/2019-20/releases/20200617dwjbxn (https://sunyacsports.com/general/2019-20/releases/20200617dwjbxn)

Some schools I know are restricting non-conference travel to trips that can be done with no overnights, unless the programs pay for themselves. This is across the board for sports at those particular schools.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Striker22 on June 22, 2020, 11:18:21 AM
FYI - this just out

-----------------------------

Important Announcement Regarding Fall 2020 Semester
Posted: Jun 22, 2020 
BRUNSWICK, Maine - Bowdoin College has released plans for the 2020 fall semester in an announcement from President Clayton Rose that can be found below.

Fall 2020 Announcement
Due to limits on campus attendance, sports in fall semester have been canceled with "opportunity for the winter, spring, and possibly fall varsity athletes to participate and compete in some form after January 1."

The full section on Athletics is here:
Unfortunately, we will not be participating in fall and winter varsity sports during the fall semester. This is one of the very disappointing outcomes of our plan. Athletics is a central part of the Bowdoin experience for many of our students and for the College more generally. NESCAC has not yet determined what will happen with conference play or how coaches in this extraordinary semester may interact with athletes on fall, winter, and spring teams during the fall semester, but I am hopeful that there will be significant opportunities this fall for coaches to work with those athletes who are both on and off campus. Varsity athletes living on campus are likely to have in-person workout opportunities with coaches, but unfortunately, students living off campus will not be permitted to participate in on-campus workouts. Last week, NESCAC released the following statement regarding the fall semester:

NESCAC institutions continue to focus on plans for the 2020–2021 academic year with the safety and well-being of students, faculty, staff, and their communities the primary concern. As institutions finalize their plans for the coming year, federal, state, and local health guidance, as well as institutional policies, will guide their independent decisions regarding reopening. 

Athletics engagement is an important part of the experience for many of our students, and member institutions remain committed to this experience. However, this will not be a traditional fall on campus in any respect, including for athletics. The conference continues to develop plans for the return to athletics, including possible modifications to NESCAC rules to allow institutions flexibility to provide for meaningful experiences for students within school policies and federal, state, and local health directives. We expect to have more details in the weeks ahead and will share information as it becomes available.

As I have already noted, I am hopeful that there will be an opportunity for the winter, spring, and possibly fall varsity athletes to participate and compete in some form after January 1.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on June 22, 2020, 11:41:47 AM
Add UMass-Boston to the list.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 22, 2020, 04:37:19 PM
There will be more, but also don't be surprised at some that won't make this decision.

The balance of hurting enrollment and an institution's future is a very difficult knife edge to be on for some schools.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on June 22, 2020, 05:39:38 PM
I was never hopeful about a real season being played, but IMO one can feel a definite shift over the past 3-5 days, with increasing anxiety about the NBA's plan, pessimism about the NFL, and especially the building news going in the wrong direction re: NCAA football.  A plan can sound good and well thought out as long as the variables remain static, but nothing about this crisis so far has been static.  It's not that hard to come up with a plan to test and isolate one or two cases, but as soon as there are a handful of cases, or far more than that already at places as influentially huge as Alabama, Clemson and Texas, there is no way to contain fast enough or well enough before moving forward just seems too daunting.  It's hard to see how D3 soccer is going to happen if D1 football doesn't happen.  I wouldn't be surprised if in the next couple of weeks we start hearing real doubts about the NCAA D1 bball season.

I suppose, if the NCAA allows it, that some D3s could try to forge ahead, but as more schools announce no Fall sports, then the logistics of who you will play and what such teams will do once a few of their own players test + will likely make those schools ask themselves what they are doing. 

It is hard to believe what we are going through, and it is certainly devastating if the trend-line continues for all the student-athletes looking forward to their final season, their first season, and everything in between...not to mention all the disruption to their educational experiences and all the rest.

I also would not be hopeful about other NESCACs.  Some may not agree with the Bowdoin move, or a move this soon, but once a few others join them, what's in it for a few to push forward, and for what exactly if the season is dramatically reduced and with no playoffs/tournament?  Just sticking with Maine, I'm not sure I can envision Bates or Colby bucking the Bowdoin decision.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 22, 2020, 05:52:24 PM
I don't agree with your last paragraph, though there are parts I do agree with (i.e. I think Bates and Colby going a different direction is a solid thought). I think some others will go in their own direction. Last Friday's statement by the NESCAC is clear they don't have a conference all on the same page. Some wouldn't be able to possibly play a full conference schedule anyway due to restrictions in their states (as they currently sit), so they were going to have to find a new way of doing things.

Yeah, schedules could be dramatically reduced. You may seem some opponents played multiple times. And playoffs and tournaments are likely the last thing administrations are thinking about in the grand scheme of things.

What is really in it for some of these institutions is complicated. Some are going to want to make sure to keep their student-athletes engaged and active in some capacity - even if it is mainly on campus. Some are going to be very conscious that losing students/enrollment could be a death-nail or the start of putting those nails in their institution's future. Others are going to be aware that if something does happen, they may not survive a lawsuit while others are wiling to risk that knowing they couldn't take the enrollment hit.

It is so complicated and each school, be damned the conference affiliation, is going to have to figure this out for themselves. Mathematically figuring out if an enrollment hit is something they can survive or bad PR, the list is really long.

My head hurts today just from the conversations I've had that have all been different.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: fishercats on June 23, 2020, 11:41:23 AM
Just one caveat on the Bowdoin decision that seems to be getting lost in various forums and news pieces - this seems in large part driven by a bigger decision of how the college is returning to operations. With limited on-campus presence (only freshman, transfers, students who can't take classes remotely, senior honors students, residential life staff), it seems that they really precluded themselves from returning to sports (and probably other extra-curricular activities)...i.e., if students-athletes aren't on campus, how can they justify engaging in athletic competitions.

It does not appear that this was a decision based upon the risks of engaging in athletic activities.

What will be interesting is the ramifications and trickle-down impact on those colleges who do decide to return to campus and engage in athletics.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on June 23, 2020, 12:23:40 PM
Quote from: fishercats on June 23, 2020, 11:41:23 AM
Just one caveat on the Bowdoin decision that seems to be getting lost in various forums and news pieces - this seems in large part driven by a bigger decision of how the college is returning to operations. With limited on-campus presence (only freshman, transfers, students who can't take classes remotely, senior honors students, residential life staff), it seems that they really precluded themselves from returning to sports (and probably other extra-curricular activities)...i.e., if students-athletes aren't on campus, how can they justify engaging in athletic competitions.

It does not appear that this was a decision based upon the risks of engaging in athletic activities.

What will be interesting is the ramifications and trickle-down impact on those colleges who do decide to return to campus and engage in athletics.

Good points.

Kenyon is planning to have a mostly normal Fall semester with all or most students, with a few changes like skipping a Fall break, classes and residential life ending by Nov 24, having finals remotely in December, and a start of Spring semester in early February.  Website talks about phasing in athletes beginning around Aug 10th but also notes that the NCAC has yet to finalize schedules. 

"Athletic schedules remain to be determined by the North Coast Athletic Conference. In accordance with NCAA guidelines for Division III athletics, teams will be allowed to practice beginning August 10. With that date in mind, we are developing a phased move-in schedule and the implementation of specific health and safety measures for fall student-athletes. We expect updates from the conference in the coming weeks."

The above plans are now a week old, so who knows if the most recent trends will impact the tentative plan.  At any rate, an announced plan obviously is reversible, especially if the reverse is towards not having a near-full student population on campus and not having Fall athletic seasons.  Interaction effects, if any, between schools and in reaction to what other schools do, will be interesting to watch.  And also interesting will be what the NCAA decides about sanctioning play and a tournament.  I can't imagine that most players and coaches will be highly motivated if there are no conference or national titles to shoot for.

The whole thing sucks and is messy, and there are no easy answers.  What a dreadful year, and there are still six full months to go.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PlaySimple on June 23, 2020, 02:18:20 PM
This forum has a lot more information and details than the women's forum. I posted in the women's forum re Bowdoin but I should have checked here beforehand.

I've been waiting to hear what the UAA stance and the member schools of the UAA are deciding what to do about all of this. With how geographically dispersed the schools in the UAA are, they'll have a tougher time with things.

Forgive me if this was discussed earlier in this thread, but is anyone privy to what the thinking of the UAA is at this point. I posted ↓ in the women's forum and am curious if anyone has heard of anything similar to this:

"I have heard various unconfirmed rumors that since the UAA is such a geographically dispersed conference, that travel is going to be minimized. One idea being floated to minimize travel will be that the schools may become temporary members of conferences within the individual schools' regions for the short-term. From what I have heard this is only one of many options that are being considered.

I don't anticipate that decisions will be made by the end of this month but I would look for some more concrete details, from all schools and all conferences, to be known by the middle of July at the latest."
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: WUPHF on June 23, 2020, 03:12:21 PM
Temporary members of conferences within the individual schools regions? 

How is that even possible on any level?

I do think the UAA could consider playing a reduced conference schedule, particularly if they want to avoid flights.

Washington University plays Emory, Carnegie Mellon, Case Western Reserve and Chicago
Chicago plays Rochester, Emory, Case Western Reserve and Washington University

No one wants to drive 600-700 miles in a charter bus, but this is more practical than cancelling the season.

I would have to take the time to work out the details, but I think you could build a four-opponent conference season, particularly if you utilize Thanksgiving week for a long two-game road trip.  I think the postseason gets cancelled before the start of the semester, but that is probably just me.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PlaySimple on June 23, 2020, 03:32:27 PM
Quote from: WUPHF on June 23, 2020, 03:12:21 PM
Temporary members of conferences within the individual schools regions? 

How is that even possible on any level?

It doesn't sound possible or feasible to me to me either. Perhaps "temporary members" was not the correct wording. More accurately, rather, would be that the UAA schools mostly populate their schedules with teams from conferences in their geographic region.

Carnegie Mellon and CWRU are pretty close in proximity but they're also close to the schools in the OAC and the NCAC. Chicago is close to a lot of the schools in the CCIW and WIAC. Emory is close to many schools in the Southern Athletic Association. Wash U is also somewhat close to some of the schools in the SAA and the CCIW. You get the idea. Some of those mentioned schools are affiliate members of other conferences for other sports already so it may not be that big of a stretch to do this in the short-term if needed.

Quote from: WUPHF on June 23, 2020, 03:12:21 PM

Washington University plays Emory, Carnegie Mellon, Case Western Reserve and Chicago
Chicago plays Rochester, Emory, Case Western Reserve and Washington University

Brandeis and NYU?

I'm also starting to think that this season could possibly end up just being a season of games with no championships - either individual conferences or NCAA. If there are championships at the NCAA level, would regional championships be a possibility?

There are too many unknowns at this point.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: WUPHF on June 23, 2020, 04:53:44 PM
I would have to work on the details, but...

NYU and Brandeis could get games against each other and Rochester and Carnegie Mellon and Case Western.

Carnegie Mellon and Case Western Reserve may have to play five games.

Teams could also play double-headers.  I think it could be relatively fun to play Emory on Saturday afternoon as scheduled and on early Sunday morning.

I know what you mean about the possibility of playing locally.  But teams would have to cancel or have other games cancelled to open up opportunities for the UAA teams to work in.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Buck O. on June 26, 2020, 08:45:11 AM
Quote from: PlaySimple on June 23, 2020, 03:32:27 PM
Quote from: WUPHF on June 23, 2020, 03:12:21 PM
Temporary members of conferences within the individual schools regions? 

How is that even possible on any level?

It doesn't sound possible or feasible to me to me either. Perhaps "temporary members" was not the correct wording. More accurately, rather, would be that the UAA schools mostly populate their schedules with teams from conferences in their geographic region.


Why is it impossible?  Take WashU, for example.  They're already CCIW members for football, and they've posted a 2020 schedule for soccer that already includes three CCIW teams.  So, to implement this plan, they'd only need to replace six UAA opponents (keeping Chicago on the schedule, since that's a day trip) with the other six CCIW teams. and presto!  No overnight travel!  I'm sure there would be some logistical challenges that I'm not appreciating, but I don't see that as impossible.  They wouldn't be eligible for the autobid to the NCAA tournament, but I don't think there would be a tournament anyway. 

Chicago could do likewise.  They don't have a 2020 schedule posted, but they played four CCIW teams last year.

I doubt that any of this comes to fruition.  I think the more likely outcome is that the soccer season is moved to the spring (and yes, I know that also presents a bunch of logistical problems).
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: WUPHF on June 26, 2020, 11:19:58 AM
There is so much that is unknown and unknowable at this point, but I cannot imagine how it is possible.

Washington University, as an example, already plays three CCIW teams this season and assuming they play UChicago, is it possible to add 6 games at this point?

I could see the soccer season moved to the Spring, but more likely, I would say part of the schedule is played in the Fall and part in the Spring.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Flying Weasel on June 26, 2020, 11:36:36 AM
Quote from: Buck O. on June 26, 2020, 08:45:11 AM
Quote from: PlaySimple on June 23, 2020, 03:32:27 PM
Quote from: WUPHF on June 23, 2020, 03:12:21 PM
Temporary members of conferences within the individual schools regions? 

How is that even possible on any level?

It doesn't sound possible or feasible to me to me either. Perhaps "temporary members" was not the correct wording. More accurately, rather, would be that the UAA schools mostly populate their schedules with teams from conferences in their geographic region.


Why is it impossible?  Take WashU, for example.  They're already CCIW members for football, and they've posted a 2020 schedule for soccer that already includes three CCIW teams.  So, to implement this plan, they'd only need to replace six UAA opponents (keeping Chicago on the schedule, since that's a day trip) with the other six CCIW teams. and presto!  No overnight travel!  I'm sure there would be some logistical challenges that I'm not appreciating, but I don't see that as impossible.  They wouldn't be eligible for the autobid to the NCAA tournament, but I don't think there would be a tournament anyway. 

If the UAA team would not be eligible for the automatic berth from their "temporary" conference, would games against them count in the standings/seedings and would they participate in that conference's tournament?  If not, then why bother to call them "temporary members"?  It would be more of an arrangement of convenience and mutual benefit to work together to help fill out each other's schedules.  The UAA team would get replacement opponents for most or all of the cancelled UAA games and the teams in the other conference would each get one replacement opponent for one of their originally schedule non-conference games that now needs to be cancelled due to travel/budget restrictions.

The next question is, if a conference like the UAA does not play a conference schedule, but their teams still play games, would they be considered independent (Pool B) this season for the proposes of NCAA tournament selection (if there is a tournament)?

This could very well be a purely academic/theoretical discussion if the season and/or the NCAA tournament gets cancelled. But attempts to have a season could force some creative and flexible solutions for this one season.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Flying Weasel on June 26, 2020, 11:42:14 AM
It's been commented something to this affect that if there is no NCAA tournament and championship to play for, what is the motivation for the top programs, and how much would the schools, the programs, and the players want to play some sort of a regular season if there is no post-season to be working toward and championships available to be won.  This surprised me.  I'm sure the season would lose some of its edge and motivation would be affected, but how often do we hear players mention when they advance to the next weekend of the tournament how much they love that they'll get to practice and be together as a team for another week (and conversely, when being eliminated, the disappointment of not just losing but also not being able to continue being together as a team).  I don't know, I never played intercollegiate sports, much less on a top tier team with championship aspirations.  But it seems to me, the players that would make up these sorts of teams really love playing soccer (beyond and besides the results and the championships).  These players like practicing and the brotherhood, etc.  I would think they'd still want to play as much as possible, even if there was no prize at the end.  It wouldn't be the same.  And it might not bring out the absolute best in them.  But I would think those players comfortable playing this fall would still want to play even without a national tournament at the end.  I could be wrong.  Others would have better insight than me.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on June 26, 2020, 01:40:28 PM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on June 26, 2020, 11:42:14 AM
It's been commented something to this affect that if there is no NCAA tournament and championship to play for, what is the motivation for the top programs, and how much would the schools, the programs, and the players want to play some sort of a regular season if there is no post-season to be working toward and championships available to be won.  This surprised me.  I'm sure the season would lose some of its edge and motivation would be affected, but how often do we hear players mention when they advance to the next weekend of the tournament how much they love that they'll get to practice and be together as a team for another week (and conversely, when being eliminated, the disappointment of not just losing but also not being able to continue being together as a team).  I don't know, I never played intercollegiate sports, much less on a top tier team with championship aspirations.  But it seems to me, the players that would make up these sorts of teams really love playing soccer (beyond and besides the results and the championships).  These players like practicing and the brotherhood, etc.  I would think they'd still want to play as much as possible, even if there was no prize at the end.  It wouldn't be the same.  And it might not bring out the absolute best in them.  But I would think those players comfortable playing this fall would still want to play even without a national tournament at the end.  I could be wrong.  Others would have better insight than me.

IMO, there are interaction effects between being part of a competitive team or team with aspirations of becoming competitive, the fraternity of the team developing in that context, a known structure that you are primed to participate in (conference opponents, rivals, tournament play), and love of the game. 

Think of it this way.  Would you as a player feel deflated if you were going into your senior year at Messiah and were told that the NCAA D3 powerhouse program had been downgraded to a club or intramural program?  You might still like hanging out with your buddies, and you might still like kicking the ball around, but the enthusiasm level likely would be super-low.  And perhaps similar to how students and parents are feeling about paying for a 70K a year education to only get a partial residential experience or no residential experience at all.   I could see Messiah kids deciding that this might be a great time to do a mission year....and at other places they might prefer hanging with their buddies playing FIFA along with drinking games.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Flying Weasel on June 26, 2020, 02:27:20 PM
Sure, if the choice was between
  (a) an club/intramural season, and
  (b) no season at all,
I can see how players at top programs might prefer no season at all. 

But if the choice is between
  (a) playing a D-III schedule (maybe a few less regular season games than normal), with a conference tournament, but no national tournament, and
  (b) no season at all,
I would have a harder time imagining most would simple prefer not to play.  It would be a lost season unless the player wanted to extend his college studies an extra semester/year. I'm not saying the motivation and drive would be the same: it wouldn't. But is nothing better than something if you are already there at school completing another semester of course work?

But then again, I've never been in their shoes.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 26, 2020, 02:58:58 PM
TCNJ has joined Bowdoin in canceling fall sports ... others likely to join them, but I'm not sure we will see all sports canceled by the NCAA. Members know they can't cut the knees out from under colleges that need students to come to school or they will never open their doors.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on June 26, 2020, 04:11:07 PM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on June 26, 2020, 02:27:20 PM
Sure, if the choice was between
  (a) an club/intramural season, and
  (b) no season at all,
I can see how players at top programs might prefer no season at all. 

But if the choice is between
  (a) playing a D-III schedule (maybe a few less regular season games than normal), with a conference tournament, but no national tournament, and
  (b) no season at all,
I would have a harder time imagining most would simple prefer not to play.  It would be a lost season unless the player wanted to extend his college studies an extra semester/year. I'm not saying the motivation and drive would be the same: it wouldn't. But is nothing better than something if you are already there at school completing another semester of course work?

But then again, I've never been in their shoes.

I think we're basically agreeing.  I meant that your scenario might feel like the downgrade I described, not that it literally would be that.  Maybe it would be more akin to a spring season or a preseason exhibition type of deal.  And yes, many might decide to go ahead and play but not necessarily with gusto or in a way that the "love of the game" slogan might suggest.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: WUPHF on June 26, 2020, 04:22:40 PM
I feel confident that students will understand that any season is better than no season at all. 

Especially after an extended period of lock down and isolation.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on June 26, 2020, 04:45:47 PM
"...how often do we hear players mention when they advance to the next weekend of the tournament how much they love that they'll get to practice and be together as a team for another week (and conversely, when being eliminated, the disappointment of not just losing but also not being able to continue being together as a team)."

I think responding to this specifically above will better explain my earlier response.

Have you ever heard that line about getting another week together from an average team?  I recall Shapiro saying this, McCarty, Souders, Bianco when CWRU made their nice run, etc.  They always say something like "real happy with the win, but even more happy that I get to spend another week with these guys."  I think that's what you're referring to.  Or, that you don't get another week your with guys because you dropped out in the Sweet 16 or Elite 8.

Anyway, my memory is that when Kenyon had relatively mediocre years my kid's first two seasons they weren't that excited about getting two more weeks to practice under the rules.  They still wanted to hang out together but they were ready for a break from the soccer stuff (at least in terms of formal practice time).  The last two years when they had good runs were different.  Even after exiting the tournament, they had a certain amount of adrenaline from exciting, successful seasons, and especially after the junior year ended on your field lol, they were motivated to maximize their time and looked forward to the short spring season in a different way in anticipation of "trying to go all the way" that last year.  The same energy of course was there between the first and second weekends.  Having another week together really meant that they were still alive in the tournament, and at least to a significant degree I think not getting another week is really a downer precisely because you have been eliminated and "it's over."  I just think there is a difference between getting to be together another week when anticipating the next round versus getting to be together when there's nothing particular to be excited about aspiration-wise.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on June 26, 2020, 06:32:30 PM
Sorry, a little hypomanic today.

I remember exactly when I knew this virus crisis was real, and I'm guessing the same is true for at least some of you.

The night the NBA shut down.  March 11, 2020.  The Gobert testing + story emerged...and while waiting to watch the nightcap game with Zion the season was was suspended.  Learning about Tom Hanks was an extra jolt the same evening I think.

Anyway, I think there is a very good chance that the NBA -- what I consider the best-run professional league in the world -- will lead again.  They will either follow through with their plan and clear the way for other leagues in this country, OR, and I think the more likely outcome, abandon their plan and then other leagues and the NCAA will follow again just as they did in March.  We should know within the next 2-3 weeks.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/if-the-nba-cant-finish-season-safely-no-us-league-can-162318903.html
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Ron Boerger on June 28, 2020, 08:17:00 AM
Quote from: WUPHF on June 26, 2020, 04:22:40 PM
I feel confident that students will understand that any season is better than no season at all. 

Especially after an extended period of lock down and isolation.

With the current meltdown underway in Texas I doubt anyone here (at least in D3) is going to be talking about college athletics in the fall.  Nobody has pulled the plug yet but it would seem to be only a matter of time until they do. 
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: WUPHF on June 28, 2020, 11:11:24 AM
I think the postseason will be cancelled for.

But, I still think we will get a condensed regular season.

There are so many institutions that are going to open the doors (and dorms, fields, arenas) or close for good.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on June 29, 2020, 11:03:23 AM
And there goes Williams...
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: College Soccer Observer on June 29, 2020, 12:04:15 PM
Will be very interesting to see the number of varsity athletes who decide to take a year or a semester off.  With all of the positive tests among D-I football players, there has been very little news about hospitalizations required, if any. 
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: jknezek on June 29, 2020, 12:07:50 PM
Quote from: College Soccer Observer on June 29, 2020, 12:04:15 PM
Will be very interesting to see the number of varsity athletes who decide to take a year or a semester off.  With all of the positive tests among D-I football players, there has been very little news about hospitalizations required, if any.

Probably because there are very few if any. The issue isn't the athletes themselves, though statistically a few could have problems requiring hospitalization, the issue is spreading it to the older coaching staff, University and Athletic Department Support Staff, and Professors as athletes pass it around to each other or other campus residents. 
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 29, 2020, 01:33:11 PM
Keep something in mind... the NCAA is likely to do everything it can NOT to cancel the postseasons at this time. They don't want to do anything that will scuttle schools from bringing in their students or having seasons if they are able to in their parts of the country. This isn't like the winter/spring right now ... though, it could end up being that way. The NCAA is going to let schools and conferences do what they need to do for their own well being and such. They may make a decision at some point, but I've been told and I've read that the NCAA (and especially DIII) would like to not cancel postseasons if they can avoid it - even with smaller number of schools having seasons.

I know of institutions who are going to do everything they can to have some kind of seasons. They have to or they likely could not open their doors in the future.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: College Soccer Observer on June 29, 2020, 02:27:25 PM
An essential part of the college experience is being around other people, in classes, in dorms, in dining halls, and yes, in athletics.  Williams today announced a plan to test every student on return, and then test every student weekly.  Dining halls will be closed except for grab and go.  No sports.  If we are going to live in such fear of a virus that in Massachusetts has killed 0 people from 0-19 and 15 under the age of 30 (a rate of 1 per 100,000 people, with 98.2 % of all deaths in MA having 1 or more significant underlying health conditions), we are not living at all.  In their zeal to avoid any kind of risk to anyone, colleges may cause themselves significant loss of enrollment.  What is the point of paying big $ for a college education that is increasingly likely to be at least partially remote and which does not include athletics (varsity or club)?  According to Williams, 60% of their student body participates in either varsity or club sports.   
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: 4231CenterBack on June 29, 2020, 02:53:28 PM
Stop it!  CSO you are making too much sense!  There's also a chance of the kids being struck by lightning when they play or the bus could have an accident on the way to a match!
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 29, 2020, 03:23:30 PM
Quote from: College Soccer Observer on June 29, 2020, 02:27:25 PM
An essential part of the college experience is being around other people, in classes, in dorms, in dining halls, and yes, in athletics.  Williams today announced a plan to test every student on return, and then test every student weekly.  Dining halls will be closed except for grab and go.  No sports.  If we are going to live in such fear of a virus that in Massachusetts has killed 0 people from 0-19 and 15 under the age of 30 (a rate of 1 per 100,000 people, with 98.2 % of all deaths in MA having 1 or more significant underlying health conditions), we are not living at all.  In their zeal to avoid any kind of risk to anyone, colleges may cause themselves significant loss of enrollment.  What is the point of paying big $ for a college education that is increasingly likely to be at least partially remote and which does not include athletics (varsity or club)?  According to Williams, 60% of their student body participates in either varsity or club sports.   

It isn't the fear of those in the age group who attend a college dying from this ... but that they pass it on to others who are more at risk including, but not limited to, professors, parents, grandparents, and many, many others.

Also, while no one in that age group has died in Massachusetts, Williams students come from far outside the state and those states those numbers aren't the same.

There is more going on here than just what is happening in Massachusetts and what the death numbers are for this age group. This age group can easily transport this virus to many other places without ever realizing they had it.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on June 29, 2020, 03:59:56 PM
I don't think there is a school, team, player, family or fan who doesn't want to see something resembling a real season happen.  I would bet that the desire to play was extremely high at all these colleges.  Sure, schools like Williams and Bowdoin can weather a lost season (or semester) way better than most, but canceling a season at a place like Williams where athletics are a huge part of the school was not a decision that they reached without very considerable and deliberate thought I would assume.  I also doubt Williams wanted to cut tuition by 15% either.  Clearly, not playing is more critical for some other schools worried about survival, but they can't play just because of financial viability.  They have to believe it is actually a good decision, as no one wants to get to mid-October and have a total mess on their hands that made everything worse (and they also have to have enough other schools joining them). 

Everyone is struggling with the pandemic and what to do.  The NBA is desperate to play.  They may not.  The list of NBA players already opting out is growing.

All states want to open.  Some appear to be paying for that now.  We all know that October, November and December could get really bad.

Postseason?  That seems very, very unlikely.  Any season beyond a club or reserve team type of schedule seems unlikely.  And at what point do enough schools decide not to play that a season feels so diluted as not to accomplish anything close to what participating schools hoped for?

And where is the NCAA's leadership on this?  It sounds generous to allow schools and conferences to make their own decisions.  But is that generous or simply declining to step up and provide some guidance --either way -- for schools to hang their hats on?  Is the NCAA going to let all D1 schools decide on their own?  And is there anyone who could see the NCAA shutting down D1 Fall athletics while allowing D3 schools to play?
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 29, 2020, 04:07:07 PM
NCAA "leadership" is DIII deciding things as a division as they always do.

The higher ups - being directed by their membership as always - have been trying to give schools as much leeway as possible. At the DIII level, they are making things as easy as possible.

There is a known side of things that they can't just shut things down because it will kill schools off - that is NCAA membership. There are guidelines in place that change when necessary and it is a constant discussion for basically any committee I've been catching up on. I also know ADs and coaches are talking constantly about the what ifs and such.

Remember ... "NCAA" is schools and conferences as members. Those in Indy don't make blanket decisions without membership telling them what they want or need. If membership says, "don't cancel postseasons at this time, we want to give schools a chance to figure out what is best of them in their geographic regions," then the "NCAA" (as in those in Indy) will follow suit.

That is how things work. The decision to cancel winter and spring sports involved NCAA membership at all division levels before it was finally made official.

I think at this time you will see sports from an overall perspective stay in place until there is indications from membership that a full shutdown is necessary. We aren't at that point right now and making that type of decision as we enter July would likely permanently close a number of institutions - if not immediately, within six months to a year.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Ejay on June 29, 2020, 04:07:28 PM
Maybe this is Calvin's year!
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on June 29, 2020, 04:17:50 PM
So for the Winter and Spring seasons, did DIII decide on their own, or allow member schools to decide or their own, or was there a NCAA-wide decision?

Are you saying that D1 football in theory could be canceled while D3 soccer presses on?
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on June 29, 2020, 04:18:30 PM
Quote from: EB2319 on June 29, 2020, 04:07:28 PM
Maybe this is Calvin's year!

LOL.  Or Kenyon's!
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Ejay on June 29, 2020, 04:24:03 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on June 29, 2020, 04:18:30 PM
Quote from: EB2319 on June 29, 2020, 04:07:28 PM
Maybe this is Calvin's year!

LOL.  Or Kenyon's!

I thought of saying Kenyon, but wanted to give you the satisfaction :-)
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on June 29, 2020, 04:27:13 PM
Quote from: EB2319 on June 29, 2020, 04:24:03 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on June 29, 2020, 04:18:30 PM
Quote from: EB2319 on June 29, 2020, 04:07:28 PM
Maybe this is Calvin's year!

LOL.  Or Kenyon's!

I thought of saying Kenyon, but wanted to give you the satisfaction :-)

I would be more than happy to wrap my arms around an asterisk championship! 
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 29, 2020, 06:05:46 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on June 29, 2020, 04:17:50 PM
So for the Winter and Spring seasons, did DIII decide on their own, or allow member schools to decide or their own, or was there a NCAA-wide decision?

Are you saying that D1 football in theory could be canceled while D3 soccer presses on?

Two things... the Board of Governors and other Presidential committees were involved with the Winter/Spring decisions. DIII was involved, though a lot of that was being driven by the medical panel they had. Ultimately the Chair of each division's Presidential Committee and the BOG are the ones who spearheaded the decision to scuttle things in the winter/fall championships. So yes, DIII had a say, but remember also ... DIII was already making hard decisions like closing gyms to NCAA tournament games and severely limiting who was in attendance at swim, diving, wrestling championships. DIII was already heading down this road before DI had to start making any kind of decision.

The decision ALSO came AFTER Division III institutions started shutting down spring sports and campuses ... followed by Ivy League and then many, many others. NCAA had already made decisions on tournament games and attendance, but they didn't decide to shut everything down until pretty much all of the schools and conferences I work for plus many, many others had already ended winter and spring efforts. The NCAA didn't follow, but because membership had decided to end things the NCAA had info from their members to end everything as such.

Right now, they are letting members make their decisions. If there comes a time when it is no longer relevant to hold championships, the NCAA will make such a decision.

D1 football - i.e. FBS - is a different beast. Remember, NCAA doesn't hold a championship in that division of the sport (just FCS in D1). The bowl games have nothing to do with the NCAA and the NCAA gets not a single penny from those bowl games. So ... yeah, D1 football could ultimately do something completely different than DIII soccer.

At the same time, I wouldn't be surprised as some sports do split things per division on what is best for each division. We shall see how it all plays out.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on June 29, 2020, 06:18:19 PM
That is all very difficult to follow... who makes what decision and in what order, and/or whether there can be a point where all of that is out the window, and a decision is made at one level that trickles down, or just events writ large that have a domino effect even if not technically under the same jurisdictions (like NBA/NFL>D1 Football>D1 sports>D3 sports).

What is your bottom line best guess on what we are going to see with D3 soccer in the Fall?  I personally am guessing that there will not be anything resembling what we are used to in terms of a D3 season or anything that we would call a season, period.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 29, 2020, 07:25:25 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on June 29, 2020, 06:18:19 PM
That is all very difficult to follow... who makes what decision and in what order, and/or whether there can be a point where all of that is out the window, and a decision is made at one level that trickles down, or just events writ large that have a domino effect even if not technically under the same jurisdictions (like NBA/NFL>D1 Football>D1 sports>D3 sports).

What is your bottom line best guess on what we are going to see with D3 soccer in the Fall?  I personally am guessing that there will not be anything resembling what we are used to in terms of a D3 season or anything that we would call a season, period.

Right now ... I think we have DIII soccer in some form in the fall. But I am going to reserve the right to come back and change that depending on how things progress in the coming weeks.

We have seen a few schools decide to forgo sports. I know of a few more that I've been told will likely be on that list as well. But I also know of a number of other schools who are either forging ahead or are not planning to shutdown sports altogether. (I've had more calls, texts, emails with people regarding the upcoming seasons in the last few weeks than I think all of my post-seasons covering DIII combined.)

The thing that is hard to read right now ... is it all could change. If you asked me in March, I saw winter sports shutting down, but not spring (I thought there would be a brief stoppage, but not a cancellation as of March). Come April and into May, I thought we wouldn't see any professional sports restart in any capacity. In the beginning of June, I thought fall sports might look a little different, but they would move forward just fine with even MLB trying to finish up a season (NBA and NHL having maybe done some kind of finals, but ...). And then in the last week, I started to wonder if there would be enough schools to play certain sports, if other sports like basketball would shift the start of the season to, say, Jan. 1 or so, and other things as I saw numbers skyrocketing in parts of the country.

Right now, I have work (first since March 11) starting on July 10 and then another gig starting, hopefully, July 24. I know the July 10 one is good unless things explode in far crazier ways. The July 24 one I am starting to worry about. But the fall and winter sports are far enough away that my mentality is things could calm down ... maybe.

So right now ... I think fall sports will take place, but look pretty different. Fall championships likely take place in some capacity. Winter sports ... lots of questions.

Next week or late July ... this could look completely different.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Buck O. on June 29, 2020, 09:07:29 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 29, 2020, 03:23:30 PM
Quote from: College Soccer Observer on June 29, 2020, 02:27:25 PM
An essential part of the college experience is being around other people, in classes, in dorms, in dining halls, and yes, in athletics.  Williams today announced a plan to test every student on return, and then test every student weekly.  Dining halls will be closed except for grab and go.  No sports.  If we are going to live in such fear of a virus that in Massachusetts has killed 0 people from 0-19 and 15 under the age of 30 (a rate of 1 per 100,000 people, with 98.2 % of all deaths in MA having 1 or more significant underlying health conditions), we are not living at all.  In their zeal to avoid any kind of risk to anyone, colleges may cause themselves significant loss of enrollment.  What is the point of paying big $ for a college education that is increasingly likely to be at least partially remote and which does not include athletics (varsity or club)?  According to Williams, 60% of their student body participates in either varsity or club sports.   

It isn't the fear of those in the age group who attend a college dying from this ... but that they pass it on to others who are more at risk including, but not limited to, professors, parents, grandparents, and many, many others.

Also, while no one in that age group has died in Massachusetts, Williams students come from far outside the state and those states those numbers aren't the same.

There is more going on here than just what is happening in Massachusetts and what the death numbers are for this age group. This age group can easily transport this virus to many other places without ever realizing they had it.

Exactly right, Dave.  A few months ago, FL was imposing quarantines on visitors from NY.  Now the shoe is on the other foot.

CSO, it's important to recognize that when you hear that R0, the transmission rate, is less than one, that does mean that if that rate is sustained, it would die out eventually, but the emphasis is on the word "eventually."  If R0 = 0.95, for example, then each additional college student who is infected would infect another 0.95 people on average, who would infect another 0.95^2 = 0.9025 people, and so on.  The total number of people infected in that chain?  20.   So the one college student who starts that chain is just the tip of the tip of the iceberg.

One other thing: Yes, most of the people who die from COVID-19 have co-morbidities.  If it kills me, I'll be one of them.  But lots of people have these co-morbidities, and many, likely most, of those co-morbidities wouldn't have killed those people in the absence of COVID.  So let's not pretend that the effects of the disease are limited to a few people who are easily isolated and had one foot in the grave anyway.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: jamtod on June 29, 2020, 09:10:34 PM
Quote from: Buck O. on June 29, 2020, 09:07:29 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 29, 2020, 03:23:30 PM
Quote from: College Soccer Observer on June 29, 2020, 02:27:25 PM
An essential part of the college experience is being around other people, in classes, in dorms, in dining halls, and yes, in athletics.  Williams today announced a plan to test every student on return, and then test every student weekly.  Dining halls will be closed except for grab and go.  No sports.  If we are going to live in such fear of a virus that in Massachusetts has killed 0 people from 0-19 and 15 under the age of 30 (a rate of 1 per 100,000 people, with 98.2 % of all deaths in MA having 1 or more significant underlying health conditions), we are not living at all.  In their zeal to avoid any kind of risk to anyone, colleges may cause themselves significant loss of enrollment.  What is the point of paying big $ for a college education that is increasingly likely to be at least partially remote and which does not include athletics (varsity or club)?  According to Williams, 60% of their student body participates in either varsity or club sports.   

It isn't the fear of those in the age group who attend a college dying from this ... but that they pass it on to others who are more at risk including, but not limited to, professors, parents, grandparents, and many, many others.

Also, while no one in that age group has died in Massachusetts, Williams students come from far outside the state and those states those numbers aren't the same.

There is more going on here than just what is happening in Massachusetts and what the death numbers are for this age group. This age group can easily transport this virus to many other places without ever realizing they had it.

Exactly right, Dave.  A few months ago, FL was imposing quarantines on visitors from NY.  Now the shoe is on the other foot.

CSO, it's important to recognize that when you hear that R0, the transmission rate, is less than one, that does mean that if that rate is sustained, it would die out eventually, but the emphasis is on the word "eventually."  If R0 = 0.95, for example, then each additional college student who is infected would infect another 0.95 people on average, who would infect another 0.95^2 = 0.9025 people, and so on.  The total number of people infected in that chain?  20.   So the one college student who starts that chain is just the tip of the tip of the iceberg.

One other thing: Yes, most of the people who die from COVID-19 have co-morbidities.  If it kills me, I'll be one of them.  But lots of people have these co-morbidities, and many, likely most, of those co-morbidities wouldn't have killed those people in the absence of COVID.  So let's not pretend that the effects of the disease are limited to a few people who are easily isolated and had one foot in the grave anyway.

And we've heard from plenty of college and professional athletes with concerns about their well-being due to other conditions they have (not to mention family members), and I think it's silly to only focus on death when there are unknowns and evidence of other long-term consequences (ground glass lung among others), even in the young folks
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: gfal5 on July 01, 2020, 04:08:49 PM
Division III Membership Committee statement on return to sports

July 1, 2020 3:00pm

Division III member schools and conferences each face unprecedented challenges in determining the appropriateness of conducting intercollegiate athletics on campus during the 2020-21 academic year. The Division III Membership Committee strongly encourages institutions to make the best decisions for their campus community and the happiness, health and safety of their student-athletes. If an institution does not satisfy one or more membership requirements as a result, it may seek relief through existing waivers. The Division III Membership Committee is committed to providing appropriate flexibility to assist member institutions through this process.

Media Contact
Jeremy
Villanueva
Assistant Director of Communications
NCAA
jvillanueva@ncaa.org
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 01, 2020, 05:03:17 PM
Basically telling schools use their best judgement and that the NCAA (specifically DIII committees) are there to support and help if necessary. Not in a situation right now where blanket decisions, which could impact institutions in negative ways, are necessary.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on July 01, 2020, 05:40:16 PM
Amherst joins the list....and Swarthmore too. 

From Amherst website...

Will there be athletic competition at Amherst in 2020-21?

There will be no athletic competition during the fall semester (August 24-December 11). No  decision has been made on competition in the spring semester. We are communicating closely with our New England Small College Athletic Conference (NESCAC) peers, public health officials and the NCAA, and will make more information known as soon as we are able.

Does that mean fall and winter sports will not compete at all?

We don’t know yet. Fall and winter sports will not be competing until after the fall semester; we are actively participating in discussions to develop possible opportunities for fall and winter athletes to stay engaged with their teams in the spring with limited practice and playing opportunities. With the information we have now, it is unlikely that fall sports activity in the spring would resemble a standard season consisting of a full schedule of regular season contests and postseason play, and it would be dependent on final approval from the NCAA. We understand this is frustrating to hear. While we recognize the importance of varsity athletics, we must balance that with health and safety concerns.

And the Swat statement...

Athletics and physical education play a significant role in maintaining and strengthening the wellbeing of our community members;, and our colleagues in athletics are designing robust offerings for the upcoming academic year to support our physical and mental health. Unfortunately, all of the measures we’re putting in place to keep our community members safe — strict physical distancing and masking policies, limits on the number of students returning to campus, severely restricted college travel, etc. — will prohibit our participation in intercollegiate athletic competition during for the fall semester.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 01, 2020, 07:16:29 PM
We have a complete and updated list here (though, we need to add Amherst): https://www.d3sports.com/notables/2020/06/schools-call-it-off-for-fall

The decision is for Amherst appears to be that fall sports will not compete and winter sports will at least be delayed - much like Bowdoin first announced, though with a later date of Jan. 1.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on July 01, 2020, 07:35:14 PM
As the list grows and major conferences (NESCAC, Centennial, Liberty, NEWMAC, UAA, NCAC, MIAC, and likely others) have too many of their members opting out, the ability of holdouts to have any semblance of a season will become increasingly more difficult, in part because the logistics will become even more difficult, and schools will find their athletics conflicting with the guidelines for students on campus at large.  The momentum seems pretty clear and will soon be overwhelming.  Not what anyone wants to hear, but barring some major turn of events the writing is closing in on the wall if not already on it.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 01, 2020, 09:11:13 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on July 01, 2020, 07:35:14 PM
As the list grows and major conferences (NESCAC, Centennial, Liberty, NEWMAC, UAA, NCAC, MIAC, and likely others) have too many of their members opting out, the ability of holdouts to have any semblance of a season will become increasingly more difficult, in part because the logistics will become even more difficult, and schools will find their athletics conflicting with the guidelines for students on campus at large.  The momentum seems pretty clear and will soon be overwhelming.  Not what anyone wants to hear, but barring some major turn of events the writing is closing in on the wall if not already on it.

There have been 15 schools of 440 or something? Let's just see where things go. I have had many talks with many around the country ... each conference has a mix of schools that have different takes on all of this. Nothing is for sure at all.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: midwest on July 02, 2020, 06:44:18 AM
Did I miss something on NCAC? I hadn't heard any NCAC schools announce they would not compete this fall.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on July 02, 2020, 08:36:05 AM
Quote from: midwest on July 02, 2020, 06:44:18 AM
Did I miss something on NCAC? I hadn't heard any NCAC schools announce they would not compete this fall.

No, sorry, I can see where that was misleading, although I certainly haven't checked a ton of websites to see if schools may have posted something.

My point was more about the type of schools that have already announced and those likely to follow by association.  And, btw, have we seen any school announce assertively in the other direction that they will have a season as close to normal as possible, regardless?  Decisions start impacting other decisions with interaction effects and a viral effect.  If Swat isn't playing what is the chance Haverford will?  And once Swat and Haverford are out, what is the likelihood of Hopkins, F&M, Dickinson, etc following suit?  What NESCAC is going to buck the trend now?  With RPI out, can you see a scenario where Vassar, Union and Skidmore stay in?  And if those go, how does SLU not join them?  If and when Kenyon, Oberlin, Denison or DePauw fall off, then how long can the others hold on to play?  In addition to a huge financial concern, there is also a reputation concern.  Especially as the potential season becomes further and further from normal, why would a Haverford forge ahead if Swat isn't?  Can you see a Middlebury or Hamilton playing if the rest of the NESCAC isn't?  In that context, what administrator wants to take the risk of their plan going badly given what the peers are doing?  And as the season looks less and less normal the motivation to continue has to be very strong with the pressure ratcheting up as more drop off.

Now, most conferences are not like the NESCAC or UAA where all of the schools are relative peers with an ability to financially survive whatever happens.  So it will be interesting to see what happens in conferences that are more mixed, like the NCAC, Centennial and ODAC.  And is a W&L going to be more influenced by fellow ODAC schools or by NESCAC and Centennial academic peers?  Can you see Macalester and Carleton playing if other academically elite D3s and a regional peer like Grinnell are not playing?  No doubt schools will WANT to have a season, but in addition to the survival motivation, I think those schools would have to embrace and sell a philosophy that playing is the right thing to do in terms of health and wellness.  I could see schools saying that the best alternative among difficult options is to stare down the virus and just storm ahead right through it.  But they still need enough other schools to play, and at what point do schools react to the pressure from other schools, consider what they will have to do to proceed, and then ultimately decide that the logistics and risks are just too great.

Here's a wildcard....if some prominent school or schools announces positively in the other direction that they are going ahead and are doing on philosophical and health grounds...what some might view as courageous and others might view as something else.  Who might be authoritative enough to change the trend-line?  I'm thinking IF schools like Hopkins, Wash U, Chicago, Emory and Rochester forged ahead, places with highly reputable medical schools and medical centers.  Let's say Hopkins announces that their best medical experts are actually ADVISING college and high school sports to go forward, then that kind of rationale might catch on, and once a few schools like that with enormous clout joined together the momentum could probably change very quickly.  I just don't see that happening.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: College Soccer Observer on July 02, 2020, 09:58:24 AM
Excellent analysis PN.  I think one of the factors driving this is that at the college level, many decisions are made by faculty committees, and the faculty members appear to be firmly in the life does not go back to normal until there is a vaccine camp (that is not meant to be a snarky or political comment, just the reality of how they see things).  See this article from the Chicago Tribune that illustrates the issue.  https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-coronavirus-illinois-colleges-fall-classes-faculty-20200701-ta423pg6avfqfgd6ou2zauikkq-story.html  A minority of the faculty at Middlebury posted their desires for the fall to be fully remote.  An overlooked factor for colleges in small towns is that the towns may see the college students as likely to introduce the virus into their communities, and colleges have to take the feelings of their local communities into account.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Flying Weasel on July 02, 2020, 12:45:18 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on July 02, 2020, 08:36:05 AMhave we seen any school announce assertively in the other direction that they will have a season as close to normal as possible, regardless?

An individual school can decide to cancel the fall athletic season and make an announcement.  But, on the other hand, while a school can individually decide to pursue a fall athletic season, they cannot individually announce assertively that they will have as normal as possible a season because "as normal as possible" requires other schools/programs being on board as well.  So you can't expect school's that would like to have a fall season to make big announcements to that effect like those who are choosing to cancel the fall season.

Over the past month or so, many schools (maybe most?) in Pennsylvania from all NCAA divisions have pro-actively announced that they are currently planning to have their campuses open for the fall semester.  Messiah, Elizabethtown, Lebanon Valley, Lycoming, Eastern, Widener, Susquehanna, York, Gettysburg, Moravian, etc. from Division III, Shippensburg, Bloomsburg, Millersville, Clarion, etc. in Division II, and Division I's like Penn State, Bucknell, Lehigh, and Lafayette.

Many of them have the same game-plan/concept of starting 1 or 2 weeks earlier than normal, having no fall break in October (adding it to Thanskgiving break), and ending on-campus residency and instruction when students return home for Thanksgiving break, followed by 0 to 2 weeks of remote instruction and remote final exams. There's probably more differences in the preliminary details, to the extent that details have been shared, on what on-campus measures would be taken due to the virus (in-person vs on-line instruction, classroom capacities, dormitory/room capacities, virus testing, commuting options, etc.).

However, getting back to your point, many of the announcements do not touch on the subject of athletics although some do. Some others have information regarding athletics elsewhere on their website (e.g. on a Covid-19 FAQs webpage). Of the Pennsylvania schools that I am aware of planning on a residential fall semester, none have announced cancellation of the fall athletics season.  The ones who do mention the fall athletic seasons seem to indicate planning on pursuing a season, some specifically mentioning such decisions will be made in concert with their conference. 

You mentioned Swarthmore, and their cancellation of athletics this fall.  Swarthmore is planning on opening its campus, but will be limiting residency and on-campus instruction much more drastically that I have heard announced by the other schools I listed above (although I am not really spending time trying to track all this).  Residency and on-campus instruction will be almost exclusively for first years, sophomores, and transfers. So cancelling athletics is in line with that degree of restrictions/limitations.

I know the MAC is pursuing having a fall athletics season, but their task force for this may very well end up deciding it can't be done. If most of the MAC schools want to forge ahead with a fall season, I'm not sure that what the NESCAC schools decide or even a few other Mid-Atlantic schools (e.g. Swat) decide would greatly impact the MAC's decision. 

That said, even without a major spike on Covid-19 cases that would basically make the decision for schools,  I do think decisions to cancel could snowball at some point due to a combination of "peer pressure" and lack of opponents. I wouldn't think we are on the brink of that just yet, but I don't really have reason to know how close we may be.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 02, 2020, 01:18:03 PM
Here is what can be an easy determination ... look at endowments.

So far many of the schools (15?) who have decided to forgo fall/first semester sports have pretty healthy endowments. Those who need enrollment, especially from athletics, to keep strong as an institution aren't going to make the same decisions unless there is absolutely no other choice.

There are some other factors, but if we start listing them all we just jump down a rabbit hole that has no ending. There are so many variables.

OAC announced today basically reaffirming what they announced on May 5. They will play only conference games for soccer, volleyball, and football in the fall (tennis, golf, and cross country can compete against non-conference opponents). Games will begin Sept. 19.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on July 02, 2020, 03:19:40 PM
Take my comments for just the opinion that it is...and that I have a fair amount of time on my hands.  Especially for any new posters, let me underscore that I have no inside information, no detailed understanding of the protocols, usual practices, and decision trees of different schools, conferences, NCAA divisions, etc.  I also do not have a current player involved and my livelihood has no correlation with whatever happens.  I don't even have a podcast lol.  When shelter-in-place began in Massachusetts I figured I'd be working from home for maybe three weeks...and I'm now going into my 5th month. 

A few thoughts regarding replies above...

Colleges and universities, both those that have said they will not have Fall sports and those that have not, have been very careful with their languaging/messaging, and they certainly are not advertising their plans in bold out of concern for retaining their students and wanting to appear as responsive as possible to students/families.  That goes for schools with large endowments as well.  As I think FW alluded to, in most cases you have to go into the FAQs to find a blurb about athletics.  Yes, it is hard to make guarantees in the affirmative when participation is intertwined with decisions of other conference members and other local schools (which is in some ways the point), but, they could make statements like "XYZ college is intent on having our athletic teams compete this Fall, and that is our current plan, with the caveat that plans could change based on factors beyond our control (i.e. what other schools do, spikes with covid, conference and/or NCAA decisions, etc)".  It sounds like this is the stance OAC schools have taken and maybe many other schools as well. 

I don't get the sense that whether or not to have athletics this Fall is tied to having a residential campus.  Aside from the Swarthmore example, most of the schools reporting that they will not have teams participating ARE strongly encouraging their students to return to campus with elaborate design and protocol adjustments to allow that to happen as safely as possible. 

Schools that desperately need as many students as possible to return, including those with their survival at risk, have to be careful with their messaging as well.  I don't think they can say "we're asking you to come back because otherwise our school may not survive."  Students and their families need to believe that students will be safe, relatively speaking.  In terms of those intent on having athletics, I think we can agree that there already has been a good amount of compression....starting late, ending early, no return after Thanksgiving, limited travel, conference games only, or contests only within 60-90 miles, etc, etc.

I'm sure that there are schools very intent on having a season.  I'm just suggesting that the limitations are likely to increase over time in ways that make whatever is being salvaged seem and feel less and less recognizable...to a point where school and league administrators ask themselves "what are we doing" and are the downsides overtaking the benefits.  We haven't even touched on all the scenarios, like what a team will do if there is a campus outbreak and/or 5 or more players on a team test +.  It's sort of like contact tracing.  Sounds great, but actually doing it can get way from you pretty rapidly.  Delaying season start dates also seems a bit counter-intuitive to me, like waiting so that the compressed season falls right in the middle of surges or a 2nd wave.

I know the NBA has nothing to do with whether Messiah plays soccer this Fall, but I do still think that how that goes will reverberate across professional and collegiate athletics.  I think the NBA has 25 + active player cases as of today with 10 or so staff +'s.  They seem intent on forging ahead (I hope they do and I will watch every game), but you can tell that Silver and others already are concerned that they may have to abandon the plan.

We shall see.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: WUPHF on July 03, 2020, 12:33:19 AM
Interestingly, the total Covid-19 deaths for individual Americans between the age of 0-24 is 171 and a significant percentage of these deaths can be attributed to both Covid-19 and one or more comorbidities.

This number is certainly lower because of the the shutdown of almost every college and universities so we have to consider that.

And for those who are infected by Covid-19, there is a risk of lifelong consequences including heart and lung damage.

A tough call regardless of how you look at it.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 03, 2020, 12:39:27 AM
Quote from: WUPHF on July 03, 2020, 12:33:19 AM
Interestingly, the total Covid-19 deaths for individual Americans between the age of 0-24 is 171 and a significant percentage of these deaths can be attributed to both Covid-19 and one or more comorbidities.

This number is certainly lower because of the the shutdown of almost every college and universities so we have to consider that.

And for those who are infected by Covid-19, there is a risk of lifelong consequences including heart and lung damage.

A tough call regardless of how you look at it.

I don't think the deaths of this age range is the biggest worry for those on campuses ... it is the fact that many turn into transportation devices for the virus unknowingly. That means professors, staff, you name it are in jeopardy. Worse than that ... family and others are now in jeopardy when they come home and such.

This is more than just worrying about students being sick and maybe dying. It is about far more.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: WUPHF on July 03, 2020, 09:20:11 AM
Colleges are worried that infection rates among students will become high enough that they will have no choice but to close campuses again. And the public will go looking for answers and ask why did you do X or Y, prompting more lawsuits.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dubuquer on July 03, 2020, 02:45:15 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 02, 2020, 01:18:03 PM
Here is what can be an easy determination ... look at endowments.

So far many of the schools (15?) who have decided to forgo fall/first semester sports have pretty healthy endowments. Those who need enrollment, especially from athletics, to keep strong as an institution aren't going to make the same decisions unless there is absolutely no other choice.


I think Dave hit the nail on the head with this one.  Not having fall sports could be an existential crisis for private schools with small enrollments, small endowments and large (and/or successful) athletic departments. If you're a school with 50% of your students participating in athletics and sports are canceled some of those students are not going to enroll - they may take a year off, or take classes at their local CC or transfer to a big state school.  If half of the athletes choose that option (which I think is probably high, but it might be in the realm of possibility) then that school is suddenly down 25% in enrollment.  That's enough to necessitate the drastic cuts that begin the rapid downward spiral of an institution.

Another thing to note is that a lot of colleges in the midwest are in rural small towns that don't have a lot of medical resources to begin with.  And these rural communities generally skew older than average so the residents are more likely to feel the wrath of COVID-19.  Bringing a bunch of kids from all over the country or all over the region practically guarantees that COVID-19 will begin circulating in those communities if it isn't already.

It's a really bad situation all around.  Many colleges and universities were struggling before the virus.  I don't envy college administrators trying to figure out what to do amidst all the uncertainty and trying to balance the livelihoods of students, employees, their communities and their institutions.

Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Shamrock on July 06, 2020, 12:07:51 PM
Is that true though, Dubuquer?

I completely agree that the virus puts college administrators in a real difficult position from a safety, pedagogical, and financial standpoint, but with respect to their athletes, I'm not confident that losing a season (in and of itself) is going to have a significant impact on enrollment.

It comes down to this: is a Div-III student-athlete that invested in his or her athletic career that they are willing to put their education on pause, or materially change their educational environment, by going to a state school or a community college?  It's a difficult question to answer because the educational environment at their Div-III school is likely to be different (at least temporarily) than what they would normally expect at their Div-III institution.  I suppose that every student-athlete's answer to that question is going to be slightly different, but I would assume that, given the fact that they decided to come to a Div-III school in the first place, that student athlete is not going to upset their entire academic career over a single season lost.

I don't know.  We are living in an extraordinary time.  Just my opinion.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dubuquer on July 06, 2020, 12:46:00 PM
I'm not sure how big an impact a season or year of canceled sports would have on enrollment.  That remains to be seen.  I would hope that student athletes are emphasizing the "student" side of the equation, but students are social and if classes are all online and they can't socialize with teammates or other students in person then I have to think that there will be more than a handful that choose to take the semester or year off (although given the job situation and inability to travel that seems unlikely) or, what I think is more likely, the first- and second-year students will choose to go to community colleges or larger, cheaper state schools rather than pay the higher tuition at smaller private schools.  Junior and seniors may have enough invested in their chosen school that they will stay enrolled and take the classes online.  I think the at-risk schools are afraid that they can not afford to be in front of the curve and have to be pitching the line that they will be open for face to face instruction and sports.  Even a modest enrollment decline puts them at risk.  We will see what happens.  I hope I'm wrong and small schools can make this all work out and the 21-22 academic year is business as usual!
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Hopkins92 on July 06, 2020, 03:32:31 PM
Quote from: Dubuquer on July 06, 2020, 12:46:00 PM
what I think is more likely, the first- and second-year students will choose to go to community colleges or larger, cheaper state schools rather than pay the higher tuition at smaller private schools.

As a parent with 2 kids in college, the idea of paying a massively expensive tuition for online classes is really REALLY not appealing. One of my kids is going the CC route in the fall, the other is sticking with the virtual route, as it is clear school is moving toward a hybrid approach that lowers risk but allows for some interaction/class time.

It's their choice, but I'm fully supportive of taking a semester/year off until things become less uncertain on campus.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Buck O. on July 06, 2020, 07:53:11 PM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on July 06, 2020, 03:32:31 PM
Quote from: Dubuquer on July 06, 2020, 12:46:00 PM
what I think is more likely, the first- and second-year students will choose to go to community colleges or larger, cheaper state schools rather than pay the higher tuition at smaller private schools.

As a parent with 2 kids in college, the idea of paying a massively expensive tuition for online classes is really REALLY not appealing. One of my kids is going the CC route in the fall, the other is sticking with the virtual route, as it is clear school is moving toward a hybrid approach that lowers risk but allows for some interaction/class time.

It's their choice, but I'm fully supportive of taking a semester/year off until things become less uncertain on campus.

As a parent with one kid in college, I would say the same.  But I would also say that the decision as to whether my son's college will participate in fall intercollegiate sports will have virtually no impact on our decision.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on July 07, 2020, 09:48:58 AM
I'm hearing MIT although I can't find anything easily on the website.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Ron Boerger on July 07, 2020, 10:54:19 AM
Quote from: PaulNewman on July 07, 2020, 09:48:58 AM
I'm hearing MIT although I can't find anything easily on the website.

Pat just posted an update to the page where they are keeping track of these, https://www.d3sports.com/notables/2020/06/schools-call-it-off-for-fall

The MIT update is buried in the student paper's story discussing "seniors only" for the semester:  https://thetech.com/2020/07/07/fall-details-only-seniors - the actual MIT FAQ is apparently restricted.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Ommadawn on July 07, 2020, 12:30:25 PM
Here's the scoop from COVID19.mit.edu:

Athletics, physical education, wellness, and recreation

What is the plan for MIT's Fall 2020 varsity athletics program?

To eliminate the possibility of transmission and infection during games and matches, MIT will not participate in athletic competitions during the Fall 2020 season. Institutions around the country in Division III have announced similar decisions.

A final decision about winter sports has not been made yet. Winter sports athletes and coaches should be aware that, if the winter season does in fact move forward, it would begin no earlier than January 1, 2021. Decisions about winter and spring varsity sports will be made in accordance with guidance from federal, state, and local health authorities, as well as any scheduling directives from the New England Women's and Men's Athletic Conference (NEWMAC), the Patriot League (women's openweight crew), and the United Volleyball Conference (men's volleyball).
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Ejay on July 07, 2020, 03:10:21 PM
Entire Centennial Conference done for the fall  https://www.centennial.org/sports/general/2020-21/fall_2020

LANCASTER, Pa. -- The following is a statement regarding athletic activity for the fall 2020 semester.
In response to the unprecedented challenges of the COVID-19 pandemic, the Centennial Conference Presidents Council has been meeting diligently to address the safety and well-being of students, faculty, staff, and their communities. As institutions finalize their plans for the coming year, federal, state, and local health guidance, as well as institutional policies, will guide their independent decisions regarding reopening. 

Given health and other related concerns, the Centennial Conference Presidents Council has decided to suspend any inter-collegiate competition for sports scheduled for the fall semester. The presidents will reevaluate this decision by the end of September, based on work to be done by the Conference to assess sports-specific activities and the experiences on the schools' campuses. The presidents have determined football will not be played in the fall. The Conference will also explore the possibility of shifting certain fall sports, including football, to the spring.   
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 07, 2020, 03:44:20 PM
Quote from: EB2319 on July 07, 2020, 03:10:21 PM
Entire Centennial Conference done for the fall  https://www.centennial.org/sports/general/2020-21/fall_2020

LANCASTER, Pa. -- The following is a statement regarding athletic activity for the fall 2020 semester.
In response to the unprecedented challenges of the COVID-19 pandemic, the Centennial Conference Presidents Council has been meeting diligently to address the safety and well-being of students, faculty, staff, and their communities. As institutions finalize their plans for the coming year, federal, state, and local health guidance, as well as institutional policies, will guide their independent decisions regarding reopening. 

Given health and other related concerns, the Centennial Conference Presidents Council has decided to suspend any inter-collegiate competition for sports scheduled for the fall semester. The presidents will reevaluate this decision by the end of September, based on work to be done by the Conference to assess sports-specific activities and the experiences on the schools' campuses. The presidents have determined football will not be played in the fall. The Conference will also explore the possibility of shifting certain fall sports, including football, to the spring.

So no it is not done for the fall.

Football is done, but all other sports will be reevaluated in September. I am told that this is to evaluate things once students return to the campuses that are still open (majority of the conference, so far). At that time if things are felt to be okay, they will look to start fall sports with in-conference games only. So, fall sports still have access to AQs other than football unless in September the presidents decide otherwise.

I know that much of this is because some presidents wanted a full shutdown and others did not. So, this is a "one foot in, one foot out" approach for now.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: fishercats on July 07, 2020, 05:49:11 PM
MIAA released a revised schedule for Fall.

A few observations:

- This reverts back to the format from a couple years back where teams play each other twice.
- Not sure if this is just hopeful thinking from the conference or whether all the participating schools have made a decision about the fall.
- Unclear what a non-conference schedule will look like. These teams need to play the likes of Chicago, North Park, ONU, Case and others to see where they fall.

https://www.miaa.org/general/2019-20/releases/MIAA_Fall_2020_Schedules_Announced (https://www.miaa.org/general/2019-20/releases/MIAA_Fall_2020_Schedules_Announced)
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on July 07, 2020, 06:37:55 PM
The Centennial announcement strikes me as interesting in a number of ways, and can be read in at least several different ways.  An optimistic take (play ends up happening in the Fall) seems very, very hopeful at best.

My first reaction was that the statement is smart in terms of providing wiggle room, and if for some reason we look like we are really in the clear come September the conference and its schools could fashion a season together.  I won't debate here whether the situation will look better or worse in mid-September, and, if better, with also a positive forecast for October and November, but I'm also not sure how one could read that statement and not think that at least right now the conference is leaning heavily towards not having a season and is not expecting to have one (and hence the reference to possibly moving some sports to Spring). 

My second reaction was that the statement is smart in terms of getting athletes back to campus with a vague promise that if things do look really good then there is room for them to change course.  The language about further consideration by the end of September also would not bring me much comfort as a player.  If it is really the end of September, and presuming a need for at least 10 days to 2 weeks of training before official games, then actual play might not start until at least a week or more into October.  Now if they decided to have a season by mid-September, then maybe that works a little better.

My third reaction was that for the segment of D3 soccer players who are making their returns to campus this Fall contingent on the likelihood of there being a season, the statement is not helpful.  I have no idea how many players might fall into this category, but I would think there would be some especially for some with the most competitive programs.

Finally, the Centennial is one of the conferences with a big mix of schools in terms of financial health/wealth.  Hopkins, Swat, and Haverford, and I assume F&M, Dickinson, and maybe Gettysburg, can weather the storm more easily than the others.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 07, 2020, 07:51:12 PM
A coupe of things per the Centennial ... there are no limits on what campuses do with teams between the time they arrive and if sports possible start up in late September. So, coaches and such could have practices. The only thing suspended are the games at this time and they could be restarted in-conference in late September.

I can tell you that there is no agreement on one plan or another in the conference. There are presidents who tend to dictate how things will be that seem to want things shut down, but they have run into presidents who are clearly not of that opinion and this was the "compromise." Football squashed for the season, but all other sports temporarily suspended pending how things look when students are back on campus for awhile.

And moving to spring can be mentioned, but the Centennial is full of national powerhouse lacrosse programs ... I think moving sports to the spring will be pretty much impossible in terms of facility usage, athletic training staff abilities and availabilities, sports information availability, game day staffing, locker room space, etc., etc., etc. and that is assuming the pandemic hasn't still got things pretty complicated.

While some of the teams in the conference seem to have financial wealth, I know things are tough right now. Don't assume even schools like Dickinson and Gettysburg could weather the storm. Some endowments aren't as large as you would think and some couldn't bail them out anyway. I also am told that Hopkins is expecting to lose half-a-billion-dollars where things stand NOW and they are expecting students back on campus this fall (more on that in a minute). The loss of international students potentially at Hopkins is going to have a devastating affect. Now throw in the athletics student body and that is another major hit. Not that Hopkins isn't going to survive this, but if this is the impact facing them imagine what smaller institutions are dealing with.

Odd note about the conference: Back in the NCAA tournament for basketball, Hopkins was the first to shut their doors per COVID for competition and have no fans in attendance (though, they were inconsistent; basketball was closed by lacrosse had thousands of fans that same weekend and baseball had fans in attendance as well). Hopkins being a research hospital school certainly knows their stuff, though it was a crazy few weeks in March. Fast forward to now and the school is planning to welcome students back. They still have access to the best scientists and doctors and they are moving forward. Others in their own conference, likely having heard the same information Hopkins itself has heard, is not. Just interesting.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on July 07, 2020, 10:39:34 PM
It will be more interesting if it turns out that Hopkins is one of the schools strongly endorsing going ahead and playing.  I mentioned elsewhere that such a pronouncement from a Hopkins, Wash U, Chicago, Emory, etc would be highly influential and give other schools cover for proceeding.  Welcoming students back is not by itself an endorsement of athletics going ahead.

If teams can do full practices right away and even show up on the dates they originally were supposed to report, then I'm not sure why they wouldn't just go ahead and play. 

It's not entirely clear to me if the financial hit is as big as advertised, in terms of the impact of whether athletes come back or not.  I know athletes can be as much as 35-40% of a student body, but the number not coming back specifically because of a missed Fall season has got to be significantly less, and I would think there is some variance among sports and maybe also to some degree gender.  Is a cross-country kid in his senior year not going to come back because there's no cross-country season?  Is a soccer player who usually is a sub going to skip a year just for that?  I'm sure colleges are anxious about people not returning in general if the plan involves limited residential and campus life and virtual classes.

And I have viewed the "maybe in the Spring" suggestion as mostly an appeasement and "let 'em down easy" kind of strategy.

At any rate, the wording is what it is.  And I'm not sure how a message of "for now, we won't be playing, but we'll consider the matter again by late September" gives a strong enough signal for athletes on the fence about going to school or opting out to go ahead and come.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Ejay on July 08, 2020, 07:09:14 AM
Quote from: PaulNewman on July 07, 2020, 10:39:34 PM
Is a cross-country kid in his senior year not going to come back because there's no cross-country season?  Is a soccer player who usually is a sub going to skip a year just for that?

Speaking from personal experience, I played at a school that was occasional ranked but always finished outside the tournament and the T25.  I was all-conference and had a year of eligibility left when I graduated. Coach tried to convince me to come back for grad school to use that year.  While it sounded fun, I realistically never gave it serious consideration. I suspect a large majority of today's current players would do likewise. On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised to see an incoming freshman decide to wait a year to start school.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: WUPHF on July 08, 2020, 01:11:05 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on July 07, 2020, 10:39:34 PM
It's not entirely clear to me if the financial hit is as big as advertised, in terms of the impact of whether athletes come back or not.  I know athletes can be as much as 35-40% of a student body, but the number not coming back specifically because of a missed Fall season has got to be significantly less, and I would think there is some variance among sports and maybe also to some degree gender. 

Two thoughts...

If the Fall season had been cancelled last Fall for whatever reason, a certain percentage of students may have imagined a gap-year that involved an internship, research, backpacking through Europe and so on.  This Fall, the alternatives are what?

The financial hit is going to be big for everyone who brings in a lot of auxiliary revenue and that is a lot of institutions.  This is not only revenue from dormitories, food service, summer camps and so on, but also revenue from medical care and much more.

People go back to the notion of institutional wealth (e.g. endowments) and such...

If you are Johns Hopkins, of course, you are going to be open 100 years from now, but for the short term, you are going to be facing budget cuts, reductions, etc. 

Unfortunately, the auxiliary revenues are going to kill off a number of Division III schools this year without a state or federal bailout.  Hard to know how many.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: WUPHF on July 08, 2020, 01:55:41 PM
No one should feel sorry for Stanford, but: https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/07/08/stanford-eliminates-11-varsity-sports/
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Ron Boerger on July 08, 2020, 03:11:57 PM
The UAA has weighed in, basically teams have the freedom to do what they want, there won't be a conference schedule per se (tho teams can play each other):  https://uaa.prestosports.com/sports/general/2020-21/uaafallstatement

QuoteIt makes sense, at this time, to move away from a conference-adopted schedule.  While we will continue to try to maintain UAA playing relationships as a priority, each UAA institution needs the flexibility to find additional local sport partners with which to compete, as they are able.

...

This resolution applies only to those sports for which the UAA sponsors championship competition during the fall (i.e., soccer, volleyball, and cross country).
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: WUPHF on July 08, 2020, 03:18:15 PM
I think we can assume that we will have a few more changes before the Fall begins, but if the UAA is able to continue as planned, that would leave a team such as Washington University needing 5 games in October and 1 game in November assuming that they play Chicago.

Hard to think about these with so much left to be determined...
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: stlawus on July 08, 2020, 03:28:22 PM
SLU's AD announced yesterday fall sports are still on but with a start date no earlier than September 26th with reduced OOC matchups which make sense.  I know RPI scrapped fall sports but I'm assuming most LL schools will be taking a similar approach to SLU.   I know the schedules will be reduced but I am wondering if they will schedule additional in conference games.   It would obviously lead to unbalanced schedules but I'm just curious if that would be an option. 
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Red Dog on July 08, 2020, 03:33:23 PM
LL has posted a statement on their website. League games plus two out of league games and a playoff and championship. First game Sept 26. There may be one other LL school on the fence with RPI but every other school is apparently intending to participate pending approval from NY and circumstances as they unfold beyond their control.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: jaybird44 on July 08, 2020, 03:47:51 PM
Carnegie Mellon cancelling fall sports for 2020:

https://athletics.cmu.edu/generalnews/2019-2020/cmu2020fallstatement

Decision came after the UAA made this statement:

https://washubears.com/general/2020-21/releases/20200708fnfmig
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Gregory Sager on July 08, 2020, 04:10:11 PM
Jay and WUPHF, my guess is that Wash U and Chicago are going to contact the CCIW and/or the MWC and try to fill out their schedules for men's and women's soccer, men's and women's XC, and for women's volleyball by attaching to one league or the other on a temporary basis. (I doubt that the invitation would extend to formally taking part in the standings and conference tournaments and possibly taking the AQ, but who knows?) Given that the various teams in both of those leagues are going to have to alter their schedules for those sports, anyway, this might be feasible.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: jknezek on July 08, 2020, 04:15:46 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on July 08, 2020, 04:10:11 PM
Jay and WUPHF, my guess is that Wash U and Chicago are going to contact the CCIW and/or the MWC and try to fill out their schedules for men's and women's soccer, men's and women's XC, and for women's volleyball by attaching to one league or the other on a temporary basis. (I doubt that the invitation would extend to formally taking part in the standings and conference tournaments and possibly taking the AQ, but who knows?) Given that the various teams in both of those leagues are going to have to alter their schedules for those sports, anyway, this might be feasible.

My guess is neither of those schools are going to play. Neither need to and with peer schools like CMU and now hearing Case about to let go of the season, it wouldn't surprise me to see these fall away also. I truly believe that the vast majority of schools that aren't afraid of losing significant student athlete dollars won't play.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: WUPHF on July 08, 2020, 04:27:41 PM
Yeah, I was hesitating on building my own schedule because I do not expect them to play.

I feel like everything is going to come crashing down in August.

I mean, why repopulate the dorms, dining halls, libraries and then say sorry, but no soccer?
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on July 08, 2020, 05:01:24 PM
Quote from: WUPHF on July 08, 2020, 01:11:05 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on July 07, 2020, 10:39:34 PM
It's not entirely clear to me if the financial hit is as big as advertised, in terms of the impact of whether athletes come back or not.  I know athletes can be as much as 35-40% of a student body, but the number not coming back specifically because of a missed Fall season has got to be significantly less, and I would think there is some variance among sports and maybe also to some degree gender. 

Two thoughts...

If the Fall season had been cancelled last Fall for whatever reason, a certain percentage of students may have imagined a gap-year that involved an internship, research, backpacking through Europe and so on.  This Fall, the alternatives are what?

The financial hit is going to be big for everyone who brings in a lot of auxiliary revenue and that is a lot of institutions.  This is not only revenue from dormitories, food service, summer camps and so on, but also revenue from medical care and much more.

People go back to the notion of institutional wealth (e.g. endowments) and such...

If you are Johns Hopkins, of course, you are going to be open 100 years from now, but for the short term, you are going to be facing budget cuts, reductions, etc. 

Unfortunately, the auxiliary revenues are going to kill off a number of Division III schools this year without a state or federal bailout.  Hard to know how many.

Absolutely, everyone is going to suffer, paralleling the crisis at large for most of the country.  Yes, some will suffer more than others, but no one wants to be canceling sports and limiting students on campus.  I have to think that the schools, going in both directions, have tried to think through all the details very carefully.

My question is more about the impact of athletics alone.  Some schools already are limiting how many can be on campus, period.  What portion of revenue loss can be attributed directly to not having a Fall season, aside from the school's general restrictions and mitigation efforts?  And for those who intended to come back to campus if permitted to do so, how many are athletes who will decide not to return if the season is shut down?  Unless I am really missing something, it is the virus that is causing hardship....not whether or not colleges have a Fall season. 

I looked at the Hopkins website regarding overall plans for having students return.  They may be welcoming them back, but the restrictions are pretty extensive...masks everywhere inside and out and all other kinds of precautions.  While reading all of it I had a hard time picturing sports teams playing there.

If there is some real substance to the possibility of schools/conferences moving soccer to the Spring that clearly would be a far from normal season unless the whole division followed suit.  I assume they wouldn't have two NCAA tournaments.

The CWRU reference struck me as Case easily could put together a very local schedule with OAC, some NCAC, northwestern PA schools, and even Rochester.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on July 08, 2020, 05:06:48 PM
NYT.....Ivy League announces all sports on hold until January.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 08, 2020, 05:10:02 PM
Again... notice that the decisions are high-endowment schools which are suspending sports. I just don't think this is going to be a huge wave in general ... not at this time.

Random: I realized today that half of last year's championship weekend teams will not be playing soccer this fall. Amherst men, RPI men, Pomona-Pitzer women, Carnegie Mellon women.

That was a gut check to realize.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: jamtod on July 08, 2020, 05:22:04 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 08, 2020, 05:10:02 PM
I just don't think this is going to be a huge wave in general ... not at this time.

So will it be a second wave... or just a mini-plateau and then continuation of the first wave?
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Gregory Sager on July 08, 2020, 05:24:47 PM
Quote from: jknezek on July 08, 2020, 04:15:46 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on July 08, 2020, 04:10:11 PM
Jay and WUPHF, my guess is that Wash U and Chicago are going to contact the CCIW and/or the MWC and try to fill out their schedules for men's and women's soccer, men's and women's XC, and for women's volleyball by attaching to one league or the other on a temporary basis. (I doubt that the invitation would extend to formally taking part in the standings and conference tournaments and possibly taking the AQ, but who knows?) Given that the various teams in both of those leagues are going to have to alter their schedules for those sports, anyway, this might be feasible.

My guess is neither of those schools are going to play. Neither need to and with peer schools like CMU and now hearing Case about to let go of the season, it wouldn't surprise me to see these fall away also. I truly believe that the vast majority of schools that aren't afraid of losing significant student athlete dollars won't play.

I hope that my guess is right and yours is wrong. But I certainly wouldn't put any money on it. As you said, Chicago and Wash U don't need to play sports.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: jaybird44 on July 08, 2020, 05:46:03 PM
But I need to broadcast WashU sports...for my sanity...
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Gregory Sager on July 08, 2020, 05:50:45 PM
I hear you loud and clear, Jay. No games to broadcast helped make this spring miserable for me, too.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Stryker on July 08, 2020, 05:57:45 PM
Quote from: Red Dog on July 08, 2020, 03:33:23 PM
LL has posted a statement on their website. League games plus two out of league games and a playoff and championship. First game Sept 26. There may be one other LL school on the fence with RPI but every other school is apparently intending to participate pending approval from NY and circumstances as they unfold beyond their control.

The only other school on the fence  for Liberty League is Union.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: WUPHF on July 08, 2020, 06:47:06 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 08, 2020, 05:10:02 PM
Again... notice that the decisions are high-endowment schools which are suspending sports. I just don't think this is going to be a huge wave in general ... not at this time.

You do not need to start with the again because it makes it seem like you think you have some unique insight here.  Everyone understands that wealthy institutions are going to move more quickly on the matter. 

And it is not just a matter of money.

Amherst and Williams know that an outbreak on the soccer team is national news whereas an outbreak at the MCLA is barely making the Boston Globe.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 08, 2020, 07:09:11 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on July 08, 2020, 05:24:47 PM
Quote from: jknezek on July 08, 2020, 04:15:46 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on July 08, 2020, 04:10:11 PM
Jay and WUPHF, my guess is that Wash U and Chicago are going to contact the CCIW and/or the MWC and try to fill out their schedules for men's and women's soccer, men's and women's XC, and for women's volleyball by attaching to one league or the other on a temporary basis. (I doubt that the invitation would extend to formally taking part in the standings and conference tournaments and possibly taking the AQ, but who knows?) Given that the various teams in both of those leagues are going to have to alter their schedules for those sports, anyway, this might be feasible.

My guess is neither of those schools are going to play. Neither need to and with peer schools like CMU and now hearing Case about to let go of the season, it wouldn't surprise me to see these fall away also. I truly believe that the vast majority of schools that aren't afraid of losing significant student athlete dollars won't play.

I hope that my guess is right and yours is wrong. But I certainly wouldn't put any money on it. As you said, Chicago and Wash U don't need to play sports.

From what I was told by someone associated with UChicago today ... they are pushing forward at this time.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 08, 2020, 07:12:10 PM
Quote from: WUPHF on July 08, 2020, 06:47:06 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 08, 2020, 05:10:02 PM
Again... notice that the decisions are high-endowment schools which are suspending sports. I just don't think this is going to be a huge wave in general ... not at this time.

You do not need to start with the again because it makes it seem like you think you have some unique insight here.  Everyone understands that wealthy institutions are going to move more quickly on the matter. 

And it is not just a matter of money.

Amherst and Williams know that an outbreak on the soccer team is national news whereas an outbreak at the MCLA is barely making the Boston Globe.

I have been having conversations about this every day for more than a month ... believe it or not, not everyone thinks about the endowments. Furthermore, some people think particular schools are wealthy and they aren't. I can think of a few in the Centennial many think have large endowments and then realize they are less than $300m.

I also just came across someone in the basketball boards who posted the Amherst coach hiring ... weeks after it was a "popular" topic in the boards. Not everyone is as keyed in or paying attention ... so, I'm repeating a talking point because I think it is worth making sure people understand.

In DIII we have had about 25 schools announce no sports in the fall ... out of 440(ish). That isn't a large number in the grand scheme of things. Could it change? Yep. Will it? No idea.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on July 08, 2020, 08:15:28 PM
Do you think colleges should base whether they play or not on whether they have a high or low endowment?

Is there any data on how much not playing will impact how many students return, assuming those schools are endorsing most or all students returning?  I assume a certain percentage of students will not return in the Fall regardless.  How much is athletics additive to that?

If you were referring to me, every CC school I mentioned has an endowment over 300 million.  The one I almost mentioned but didn't is Muhlenberg which as of 2019 comes in just under 300 mill at 289 million.  I confess I didn't check all of them ahead of posting but I was making an overall point about how the ones I mentioned might potentially impact one another.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: NEPAFAN on July 08, 2020, 08:36:40 PM
I don't see any fall sports across the board in the fall, I'm sorry to say.  It is 8 July and the cancellations are already pouring in.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Gregory Sager on July 09, 2020, 09:53:59 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 08, 2020, 07:09:11 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on July 08, 2020, 05:24:47 PM
Quote from: jknezek on July 08, 2020, 04:15:46 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on July 08, 2020, 04:10:11 PM
Jay and WUPHF, my guess is that Wash U and Chicago are going to contact the CCIW and/or the MWC and try to fill out their schedules for men's and women's soccer, men's and women's XC, and for women's volleyball by attaching to one league or the other on a temporary basis. (I doubt that the invitation would extend to formally taking part in the standings and conference tournaments and possibly taking the AQ, but who knows?) Given that the various teams in both of those leagues are going to have to alter their schedules for those sports, anyway, this might be feasible.

My guess is neither of those schools are going to play. Neither need to and with peer schools like CMU and now hearing Case about to let go of the season, it wouldn't surprise me to see these fall away also. I truly believe that the vast majority of schools that aren't afraid of losing significant student athlete dollars won't play.

I hope that my guess is right and yours is wrong. But I certainly wouldn't put any money on it. As you said, Chicago and Wash U don't need to play sports.

From what I was told by someone associated with UChicago today ... they are pushing forward at this time.

That's great news. And, while each institution makes decisions for itself based upon its own needs and situation, it makes me hopeful that Wash U will act in tandem with its archrival and traveling partner.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on July 09, 2020, 10:58:41 AM
Quote from: NEPAFAN on July 08, 2020, 08:36:40 PM
I don't see any fall sports across the board in the fall, I'm sorry to say.  It is 8 July and the cancellations are already pouring in.

Yep....the divergence in perspectives is pretty stunning to me.

This very week we have two of the biggest NCAA D1 powerhouses -- Ohio State and UNC-Chapel Hill -- announcing at least temporary suspensions of all athletic programs due to outbreaks within the programs (at least 37 + cases at UNC I believe).  Now of course those setbacks may indeed be temporary, but we've also seen Clemson, Alabama and I think Texas have issues.  The Dallas MLS team is out.  At least one WNBA team is out.  The viability of doing a NBA season inside of a bubble at Disney World is still an open question. 

I know, I know... D3 athletics supposedly has little to nothing to do with D1 athletics and professional leagues, but D3 sports aren't divorced from the world either and they don't have some special sauce that the others don't.  If anything, they have less resources.  I'm sure all of the D3 schools that have already opted out desperately wanted to go forward and play.  There is no school regardless of wealth that isn't going to feel broken without official athletics.  Wanting and even still planning to go ahead are not a lot to hang one's hat on at this point.

From a strategic point of view I'm not sure I'm following the proposed starts in very late September.  I would have thought they would have moved things UP to attempt to get a season in.  Seems like the proposed late starts allows schools cover if needed to say we planned to play and announced that in good faith if "conditions on the ground" result in a reversal.  When are we supposed to know if there is a plan to go forward with a NCAA D3 tournament?
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: jknezek on July 09, 2020, 11:06:18 AM
I still think this will be a very individual, school by school, conference by conference type thing. I expect at least half of DIII schools to try and have sports. They can't afford not to. They'll get the students back on campus, make sure they are enrolled, get the money, and attempt practices and keep a schedule. Then if cases start popping up in the players themselves or opponents they will cancel. And if the cases don't pop up, or go unknown, they will attempt to play.

To be clear, I'm not calling this a scam, I'm calling this an attempt to have a season, knowing that the threshold for failure is low, but the attempt needs to be made to make sure the enrollment dollars come in.

I will be extremely surprised if we have any kind of post-season for any sport this fall.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on July 09, 2020, 11:27:15 AM
Quote from: jknezek on July 09, 2020, 11:06:18 AM
I still think this will be a very individual, school by school, conference by conference type thing. I expect at least half of DIII schools to try and have sports. They can't afford not to. They'll get the students back on campus, make sure they are enrolled, get the money, and attempt practices and keep a schedule. Then if cases start popping up in the players themselves or opponents they will cancel. And if the cases don't pop up, or go unknown, they will attempt to play.

To be clear, I'm not calling this a scam, I'm calling this an attempt to have a season, knowing that the threshold for failure is low, but the attempt needs to be made to make sure the enrollment dollars come in.

I will be extremely surprised if we have any kind of post-season for any sport this fall.

Fair enough.  I wouldn't call it a scam either, but assuming you are right I think you hit the nail on the head with the low threshold for failure.

So you've described the institutional side of things, again based almost entirely on money.

From a player and/or family perspective -- assuming that going back to school and giving out those enrollment dollars IS in fact dependent on the school expressing the intent to have some kind of season -- at what point for some will having a season not look and feel enough like having a "real" season to go back?  Is a 6-10 game season with no NCAA tourney enough?  Maybe.  I suppose this is where FW's point about "getting to be with your brothers" comes into play.  I think personally I would either decide to return to school with or without a season OR hold off and keep my year of eligibility.


Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 09, 2020, 11:30:33 AM
Quote from: PaulNewman on July 08, 2020, 08:15:28 PM
Do you think colleges should base whether they play or not on whether they have a high or low endowment?

Is there any data on how much not playing will impact how many students return, assuming those schools are endorsing most or all students returning?  I assume a certain percentage of students will not return in the Fall regardless.  How much is athletics additive to that?

If you were referring to me, every CC school I mentioned has an endowment over 300 million.  The one I almost mentioned but didn't is Muhlenberg which as of 2019 comes in just under 300 mill at 289 million.  I confess I didn't check all of them ahead of posting but I was making an overall point about how the ones I mentioned might potentially impact one another.

Absolutely! Go through the list of schools that have called off fall sports (fully, skip the Centennial for now) or not allowing students on campus and you will see a common thread.

Furthermore, I have talked to institutions who don't have high endowments and their mentality is different. They need to survive this and not having students on campus or not have athletics (which is more about the energy and atmosphere on many campuses than just bodies and enrollment) could push the financial limits colleges are already facing from the spring decisions into a hole they can't recover from. Institutions are already closing and will continue to close from this pandemic. The pendulum was already swinging in the wrong direction for high-education and a number of institutions prior to COVID-19, but that pendulum has been shoved in that direction now. Schools with low endowments don't have the financial fall back to rely on as those with significantly higher endowments.

Furthermore as one AD told me, there are lawsuits to worry about and those with with higher endowments could be worried that their financial security could be a target (whether that is accurate or not; one article about NCAA lawsuits per name and likeness showed that D1's thinking to get rid of it's reserve funds because they were worried the money would be targeted by lawyers proved to be a foolish idea for many reasons including lawyers who point out the reserve funds, i.e. endowments, are not something they consider when deciding on lawsuits). Some schools have tort limits for payouts thanks to being state institutions. Others do not have those limits and may worry if something goes wrong if they can handle the hit of those lawsuits.

And if you need more examples of where endowments plays a role, look at the Centennial and NESCAC. While the Centennial has made a decision on the fall, it is NOT the same decision Swarthmore and Haverford have made and Bryn Mawr will make. I know schools in the Centennial who plan to have students on campus and have fall sports if they can possibly pull it off (after a decision in late September). And the NESCAC is split. There are some who have announced they are shutting down sports. There are others who have not and are trying to have sports.

Per "having a season" that Paul just posted about ... having 6-10 games is better than nothing would have been the perspective I would have had as an athlete. At least I am playing.

The minimum to be considered for the post-season, which right now is the furthest from my mind and likely many others, is about half the season max. Changed for this season.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: jknezek on July 09, 2020, 11:35:54 AM
Quote from: PaulNewman on July 09, 2020, 11:27:15 AM
Quote from: jknezek on July 09, 2020, 11:06:18 AM
I still think this will be a very individual, school by school, conference by conference type thing. I expect at least half of DIII schools to try and have sports. They can't afford not to. They'll get the students back on campus, make sure they are enrolled, get the money, and attempt practices and keep a schedule. Then if cases start popping up in the players themselves or opponents they will cancel. And if the cases don't pop up, or go unknown, they will attempt to play.

To be clear, I'm not calling this a scam, I'm calling this an attempt to have a season, knowing that the threshold for failure is low, but the attempt needs to be made to make sure the enrollment dollars come in.

I will be extremely surprised if we have any kind of post-season for any sport this fall.

Fair enough.  I wouldn't call it a scam either, but assuming you are right I think you hit the nail on the head with the low threshold for failure.

So you've described the institutional side of things, again based almost entirely on money.

From a player and/or family perspective -- assuming that going back to school and giving out those enrollment dollars IS in fact dependent on the school expressing the intent to have some kind of season -- at what point for some will having a season not look and feel enough like having a "real" season to go back?  Is a 6-10 game season with no NCAA tourney enough?  Maybe.  I suppose this is where FW's point about "getting to be with your brothers" comes into play.  I think personally I would either decide to return to school with or without a season OR hold off and keep my year of eligibility.

Yeah. I have no idea. I don't have kids in that age group. Mine are 10, 8 and 8 and we are back doing our sole sport of taekwondo, though we are not participating in the summer tournament next week or the Alabama State Games later this month. Both areas we would normally compete.

I would not be particularly upset about an 18-22 year old playing sports this fall as a parent, though I would be skeptical of having them come home at Thanksgiving and might pay for a hotel quarantine for them for a week or two after the semester ends if I was in a at-risk age group.

For me, the reason schools are having issues is the faculty and staff risk, not so much the student risk (though obviously there have been some serious cases in younger people). We will see how it turns out, but I do believe trying to have a season is mostly about enrollment dollars for D3 schools, and a little about wanting athletes to have the most typical season possible.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on July 09, 2020, 12:10:30 PM
A few reactions...

I would love to see detailed projected attrition rates....like how many won't be going to their schools regardless of how "normal" or how much campus life is being proposed, how many truly will base a decision on their school's intended plan to play, how many will decide based on their own assessment of the likelihood of a season aside from what their school is telling them, and how many will go back no matter what because after all I'm a senior, this is D3 after all, and I have plans for a job or grad school after graduation.

Schools with lesser endowments can be sued too.

My read of the Centennial statement is very different.  Yes, so far, Swat and Haverford have made more definitive statements.  But while some Centennial schools may be hoping, the lean in the statement is pretty strongly towards not playing.  As it stands, they aren't playing, but the door is open to reconsider.  Football already is out across the board in the CC.  And wrt to the NESCAC, I'd be surprised if any play, and I'd shocked if it's more than two.  Trinity has a much higher endowment than I thought, so the only ones with relatively low endowments are Conn and Bates.  The rest are over 700-800 million with several well over a billion.

In addition to my ongoing "watch what happens with the NBA" closely theme, I now would add keeping an eye on the OAC which currently appears to be strongly intending to play.  CWRU and Oberlin are right there in that backyard (yeah, I know).  And I would assume whatever happens with Ohio State could ripple.  I of course will be interested in what Kenyon does, which has an OK endowment (400 mill+) compared to peers but not nearly as high as Oberlin, Denison and DePauw.

Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 09, 2020, 12:17:35 PM
The attrition rates will have to come after the fact. As one coach pointed out to me and an AD confirmed, some of these decisions may not come until the student is climbing into the car with their parents - or on the drive - and suddenly decides they are not coming or decides to go through with it. Heck, a gig I am working (I am finally working after four months - at least for a few weeks) starting this weekend had a few people back out this week. I thought it was because of testing results (positive COVID tests). It turns out it is because their families (or wife specifically) suddenly didn't want them to go as the moment arrived.

Yes, schools with lesser endowments can be sued, but the hit of not reopening fully will be a bigger and more assured toll than the possibility of being sued. A larger endowed school knows they can withstand the financial hit of not having students on campus and fear the lawsuit more.

And high endowments doesn't mean they absolutely will keep students home and not have athletics. Johns Hopkins is planning on students on campus and wants to have sports ... I'm simply pointing out that not a lot of low-endowment schools will make the same decisions as high-endowment schools right now.

Understand my "read" on the Centennial Conference is talking to people in the conference. This is what I've been doing around the country for the last month-plus. I know you don't know me as much as other sports know me, but I work very hard to stay on top of things in the Division in all sports ... and I've been talking to coaches and ADs (and others) around the country. I am also in Centennial country and have a lot of contacts here. My read is more than just "I think I see this happening" and more of "this is what I've been told."

As for the NESCAC... it's the same. I'm talking to people in that conference. There are member institutions who have said "we will play (an in-state, non-conference member) three times in soccer if we have to" rather than shut the doors to students on campus as other schools have decided. I have at least four on my list who fit that description. The simplest way you can read into the NESCAC right now is what is the conference saying. Days before Bowdoin made their decision, the conference came out with a statement of "schools need to do what is best for them" type statement. They knew Bowdoin was going to announce what they announced. And the conference knew what Williams, Amherst, and some others would announce (some have maybe changed their minds, by the way; I was told at least one school that has announced they are hedging their bets was going to announce the same as Bowdoin, but they haven't now). If the NESCAC was killing things off and were speaking as one ... they would have already beaten the Ivy to the punch - as they did last March.

And I am not one to say "watch the NBA closely." I think the Golbert situation just happened to be the breaking point last March. Right now, MLB might be worth watching more closely because they are the ones who will be going in and out of other cities and hot spots with a testing system that right now is a mess.

Other than that... these decisions are going to be geographical and regional at best. What works for the midwest isn't necessarily going to work for Southern California, etc.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Ejay on July 09, 2020, 12:35:26 PM
Speaking of attrition... at schools that aren't playing this fall I'd be curious to see how many players say F 'it, and give up the sport.  I don't think it will be a lot, but I can definitely see instances of kids realizing they don't really miss it.  Remember, most of these kids have been playing soccer for 10-12 months a year for the last 10 years.  This forced break might just be the nudge they need to pursue other interests.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on July 09, 2020, 12:58:02 PM
Dave, I think it's fair to say that you and I are not the best of pals....which is a little silly because we know virtually nothing about each other at all beyond reacting to and responding to posts on a D3 soccer chat board.

I respect what you do and I think it's great that you support and promote D3 sports.  From what I have consumed over the past handful of years, you do a really nice job as a broadcaster as well.  I also respect your role and view of yourself as an "insider."  I don't think that means that we (or I) should sit around, hold our own thoughts and opinions, and wait for you to tell us "what's really going on" (and then by definition adjust our own views accordingly).  The number of phone calls you have had with really important people "in the know" probably isn't going to impact my thinking a ton, or maybe it will, but not by necessity. I could call "Woj" or even Adam Silver himself right now and hear that the NBA is full steam ahead, the teams have flown in and gotten settled in the bubble, and Lebron is taking selfies with Mickey.  Silver telling me that, completely in good faith, doesn't mean they will pull it off, and I can have my own opinion about whether they will.  I hope they do.  I'm starving for the NBA, I want to see Lebron vs Zion in the first round, and I want to see how far Brad Stevens (DePauw great!) can take the Celtics.  As an aside given your comment above, if the NBA with literally billions and billions on the line and no certainty about '20-'21 cannot make it work inside a bubble, then I have doubts about campuses pulling off athletics no matter what ADs and school Presidents are hoping or insisting today.

I would say that I will now try to refrain from posting, but I really enjoy posting lol, and so I won't make that commitment at this time.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: jknezek on July 09, 2020, 02:18:45 PM
Second MLS team is removed from Tournament. Nashville had 9 positives. I think the only way we have a DIII season is if we DON'T test... and no, I'm not advocating that kind of idiocy.

I stand by what I posted this a.m., schools are going to try. But with the h.s. and college workouts we are seeing now, let alone the issues we are seeing with the "best of everything" pros, groups of players are regularly testing positive and shutting things down for weeks. It's pretty clear that players are going to test positive all over the place. Then what? Do you skip 2 weeks of your schedule because all the players were in contact? Forfeit 2-4 games? At that point it's not a season, it's just a few scrimmages because everything becomes luck of the draw.

Now if you don't test, you don't know. And at $100 a pop for tests, I'm thinking this will be the way schools go. Only testing when someone has symptoms. But then do you test everyone else on the team, because they all had contact? Everyone on all teams? Shared training space, weight rooms, dorms, classrooms, cafeterias, it's not like Player A hasn't been in contact with just teammates, but other sports players and general student body.

Such a sad mess. I feel so bad for the players who have lost and might lose one of those precious seasons.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: WUPHF on July 09, 2020, 02:54:22 PM
Quote from: EB2319 on July 09, 2020, 12:35:26 PM
Speaking of attrition... at schools that aren't playing this fall I'd be curious to see how many players say F 'it, and give up the sport. 

I think this could be a serious problem for schools in conferences such as the SLIAC.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: WUPHF on July 09, 2020, 03:02:50 PM
Quote from: jknezek on July 09, 2020, 02:18:45 PM
Second MLS team is removed from Tournament. Nashville had 9 positives. I think the only way we have a DIII season is if we DON'T test... and no, I'm not advocating that kind of idiocy.

When you test, you have a case.

If we didn't have any testing, we would have very few cases.


Do we reach heard immunity before we get a vaccine?
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: jamtod on July 09, 2020, 03:09:08 PM
Quote from: WUPHF on July 09, 2020, 03:02:50 PM
Quote from: jknezek on July 09, 2020, 02:18:45 PM
Second MLS team is removed from Tournament. Nashville had 9 positives. I think the only way we have a DIII season is if we DON'T test... and no, I'm not advocating that kind of idiocy.

When you test, you have a case.

If we didn't have any testing, we would have very few cases.


Do we reach herd immunity before we get a vaccine?

Not likely. The prospect of achieving herd immunity through infection is almost unheard of in modern times, and any widescale herd immunity would be fairly catastrophic on a short time frame. Without the likelihood of lifetime immunity, at current spread rates, we'd be looking at a few years to reach herd immunity. In that time, a fair number of the early infected are going to be going back into the non-immune pool.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: WUPHF on July 09, 2020, 03:12:15 PM
+1 Thanks for that.  It is interesting how under control the situation is in some of the European countries.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 09, 2020, 03:24:42 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on July 09, 2020, 12:58:02 PM
Dave, I think it's fair to say that you and I are not the best of pals....which is a little silly because we know virtually nothing about each other at all beyond reacting to and responding to posts on a D3 soccer chat board.

I respect what you do and I think it's great that you support and promote D3 sports.  From what I have consumed over the past handful of years, you do a really nice job as a broadcaster as well.  I also respect your role and view of yourself as an "insider."  I don't think that means that we (or I) should sit around, hold our own thoughts and opinions, and wait for you to tell us "what's really going on" (and then by definition adjust our own views accordingly).  The number of phone calls you have had with really important people "in the know" probably isn't going to impact my thinking a ton, or maybe it will, but not by necessity. I could call "Woj" or even Adam Silver himself right now and hear that the NBA is full steam ahead, the teams have flown in and gotten settled in the bubble, and Lebron is taking selfies with Mickey.  Silver telling me that, completely in good faith, doesn't mean they will pull it off, and I can have my own opinion about whether they will.  I hope they do.  I'm starving for the NBA, I want to see Lebron vs Zion in the first round, and I want to see how far Brad Stevens (DePauw great!) can take the Celtics.  As an aside given your comment above, if the NBA with literally billions and billions on the line and no certainty about '20-'21 cannot make it work inside a bubble, then I have doubts about campuses pulling off athletics no matter what ADs and school Presidents are hoping or insisting today.

I would say that I will now try to refrain from posting, but I really enjoy posting lol, and so I won't make that commitment at this time.

I, in no way, expect anyone to not express their opinions. I simply am trying to help understand that my thoughts on the matter aren't coming from me being on the outside trying to read the tea leaves, but from what people are actually telling me has happened. It is the best way to inform people and I don't want it to be confused with me guessing at what might be going on. So, I was simply trying to convey to you that what I was saying is what has happened.

I will say that I have had many an occasion when people will try and indicate that what I have reported is inaccurate or simply will pretend I said nothing ... only to have what I reported be absolutely true. The ACAA/CAC merger comes to mind recently. Does that mean I might get something wrong? Absolutely. I don't expect to have a perfect track record, but I also sit on anything I am unsure of or simply say I am unsure of the information I have received. I break or report far less than I hear - by a healthy margin.

And sure, things change ... I've stated that a lot in this current situation. Anything I am saying or reporting about the Centennial or others could change in a month with the ever-changing world we are living in.

Sure, if the NBA can't make it work I would agree that things are rather clumsy at best for everyone else. My only point with the MLB is that it presents a more real-world scenario of changing cities and locales, even staying in other places, that will cause the biggest stress. Sadly, no college can bubble itself and expect to be playing any competition what-so-ever.

As for the "not the best of pals," I have nothing for you. Sadly, it started on the wrong foot, but that doesn't mean I stay on that same foot for all times. I am simply repying to your comments and supplying information that I have worked on myself. If I don't have anything, I don't say anything. And I don't view myself as an 'insider.' I simply work hard to gather as much information as I can about Division III, it's conferences, and it's members. I do my best to then inform the larger public about what is going on. My goal has never been to get a scoop or to break news. That sometimes happens as it falls in my lap or I work something that ends up giving me an opportunity, but I can tell you that right now I am sitting on several items that I won't break or report on because it isn't my place. Someone like HoopDirt or others won't have the same level of scrutiny and want to show they are more 'insider' - I don't find that helpful. Sometimes it is better to be informed and ready to report and reply to a story than it is to be the one that breaks it and prove one to be an inside. Of course, we may be using the term differently.

And don't worry ... starting this weekend you might not hear much from me. I will be out of town for work - I finally have work for the first time since March 11. It will be the longest I've ever been away from home for work (two weeks; was asked to be gone a month), so it will be new for me.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Gregory Sager on July 09, 2020, 03:39:07 PM
Quote from: jknezek on July 09, 2020, 02:18:45 PMNow if you don't test, you don't know. And at $100 a pop for tests, I'm thinking this will be the way schools go.

We may see batch testing, which is cheaper, used as a screening method instead of only testing symptomatic student-athletes, or screening by testing members of a team one-by-one. (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/coronavirus-test-shortages-trigger-a-new-strategy-group-screening2/)
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on July 09, 2020, 03:50:59 PM
Fair reply, Dave.  Appreciated.  Good luck on your trip.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 09, 2020, 04:00:51 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on July 09, 2020, 03:50:59 PM
Fair reply, Dave.  Appreciated.  Good luck on your trip.

Thanks. If anyone is a tennis fan ... you might see some of my work (though, it is a team effort) on ESPN2, ESPN+, Tennis Channel, CBS SportsNetwork, and even Facebook Watch.

The job is with World TeamTennis. Producing and AD for something like 16 matches in ten days (roughly). I am only there for half of the entire "season" which finishes Aug. 2.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: midwest on July 09, 2020, 07:54:47 PM
NCAC announces that there can be a fall season -- though schools can choose to do less than NCAC provides. In-conference play, nothing before mid-September, and no overnight travel.   https://www.northcoast.org/News/2020-21/Releases/NCACFallUpdate20?fbclid=IwAR2JhZe6UYpLYfiLVt29YpEr53CNv0QlnQKPg-Fc_J_YWJ62Ab-iL2GZWbc

Oberlin announced yesterday it will not have any fall sports. 
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: gfal5 on July 10, 2020, 10:37:22 AM
MAC Announces Update on Fall 2020

7/10/2020 9:00:00 AM

ANNVILLE, Pa. (Conference News) – The Middle Atlantic Conference (MAC) President's Council met on Thursday to discuss athletics for the fall of 2020 and has made the following statement:

The MAC intends to pursue fall athletics competition, with each campus formulating plans for resocialization that will comply with local, state and NCAA guidelines. Competition will be limited to MAC institutional members beginning no earlier than September 18, 2020 and with the goal of reaching NCAA minimums in all sports.

The MAC will continue to prioritize the health and well-being of student-athletes, coaches, campuses and communities and therefore will continue to evaluate both internal and external factors and revisit this decision if necessary.

"It is paramount that each campus prioritizes the health of its entire campus community," said Megan Morrison, MAC Executive Director. "I am hopeful that with carefully crafted resocialization plans, athletics, as an integral piece in the co-curricular experience for so many student-athletes and campuses, may be able to happen this fall."
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: d4_Pace on July 10, 2020, 12:54:51 PM
NESCAC fall sports done... https://nescac.com/news/2019-20/NESCAC_Presidents_Statement
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: jknezek on July 10, 2020, 03:22:29 PM
W&L pulls the plug on all sports during the fall semester.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Flying Weasel on July 10, 2020, 05:19:44 PM
In case anyone hasn't seen it yet, D3soccer.com is tracking all the schools' and conferences' status for the fall season due to Covid-19 with links to their releases.

https://d3soccer.prestosports.com/notables/2020/COVID-Status-of-Play
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on July 11, 2020, 10:53:00 AM
We wake up this morning to what seems to me an alternative reality that five NESCACs are potentially back in play for leaving an opening for some kind of alternative competition but nothing that adds up to the wording of "having a season."  Is this just sheer denial?  Very technical parsing of language interpreted as liberally as absolutely possible?  Backing up someone's statement that NESCACs are not acting in lockstep, even though they put out a very clear statement signed by all NESCAC Presidents?  A desperate attempt to limit the potential (likely?) domino effect?

This is only my opinion of course, but my gut reaction is that there is a straining and bending over backwards to parse language into a reality that is just not true, or even, at best, that bears no resemblance to any sort of "real season" with a  path to post-season play.  It's almost as if the schools must state in blood "No Fall Sports, period" in order to be counted as out.  Of course schools don't want to write things that starkly.  They are trying to empathize with the blow and trying to normalize as much as possible with language about contact with coaches, training opportunities, possible practices, etc.  I don't see how a school saying something at the very end that if all goes really well we may consider allowing some very limited competition is really any different than the other statements from a practical point of view.

In the updating on the site, there is a reference to Middlebury.  Well, let's look at what Middlebury said...

Dear Middlebury Community,

The NESCAC presidents released a joint statement earlier today announcing that NESCAC competition for 2020 fall sports will be canceled due to ongoing concerns around COVID-19. As a result, there will be no scheduled NESCAC competitions or championships. Individual institutions do, however, have the discretion to organize practices and to consider alternate competitions, dependent on state and local health guidelines. 

At this time, Middlebury does not have any competitions scheduled for the fall. And we continue to consult the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the Vermont Department of Health, and other authoritative sources on all public health issues and their potential bearing on Middlebury programming. If public health guidelines allow for any sort of limited competition at Middlebury, we will consider them at the appropriate time and only if it is safe to do so. 

Our FAQs on the NESCAC decision can be found here.

We understand that this is difficult news for many to hear, though not unexpected given the circumstances. To our athletes, as always, your coaches are here for you if you would like to reach out. To Middlebury's many fans, we appreciate your understanding.

Athletes join those in the creative arts, community engagement, and many other activities in being challenged to find new ways to do what they love to do in the Middlebury community. We are confident that we can forge those new paths.

To our entire community, we will continue to keep you up to date on this issue and all others related to Middlebury's plans for the fall.

Sincerely,

Erin Quinn '86
Director of Athletics

Laurie Patton
President


Trying as hard as possible to address the needs and desires of students and student-athletes makes a ton of sense.  Many are working as hard as possible to ease the blow and to have the on campus semester be as fruitful as possible.  Leaving some wiggle room makes sense.  But at some point -- at some point -- we are talking about two very different things.  The overall tone of the Midd statement is regretful, apologetic, and empathetic.  Look, being able to train, being able to practice, being able to interact often with teammates and coaches, and maybe getting something akin to a Spring season with a few games against very local opponents with real referees is definitely not nothing, and may make many relatively happy given the circumstances and once they get over the blow about not having anything resembling a regular "season."  That's great.  I personally don't think the Midd statement (or the Trinity one I read) reads as though there is any actual likelihood of a few competitive scrimmages with real referees, but even so, a few games sometime later in the Fall should not be confused with qualifying as "playing in the Fall."  If I'm a student going back, I may be glad that the school is allowing some activities, but I'm not going to confuse that with there being a season. 
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 11, 2020, 10:58:45 AM
Just FTI - as I understand it, NESCAC schools can still schedule and play games against non-conference foes. Heck, if they wanted to play a conference foe without it being a conference game I am sure that could be arranged. The conference has shut down conference games, but I have been told that at least a few schools want to try and cobble something together for their athletes.

We shall see how long that lasts ... the reality is that every day I see news change. As I was on the road yesterday, things were changing constantly. Hard to keep track when trying to stay on the road, in bad weather, at the same time.

BTW - D3sports has a comprehensive list of announcements and changes: https://www.d3sports.com/notables/2020/06/schools-call-it-off-for-fall
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: jknezek on July 11, 2020, 01:08:53 PM
To be fair, a school like W&L and others did basically sign it in blood. So the NESCAC schools could have written something simple. I think they are trying to leave the door open for the member schools who still hope and want to have athletics. Whether that is realistic or not is irrelevant. The statement is not the black and white statement that W&L and other schools have used, so it is legitimate to wonder at why and to speculate. Same with the Centennial. It seems like it is easy for individual schools to say no way, but much harder, outside the Ivies, for conferences to absolutely shut the door for its members. And that seems perfectly understandable to me.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on July 11, 2020, 02:21:08 PM
Quote from: jknezek on July 11, 2020, 01:08:53 PM
To be fair, a school like W&L and others did basically sign it in blood. So the NESCAC schools could have written something simple. I think they are trying to leave the door open for the member schools who still hope and want to have athletics. Whether that is realistic or not is irrelevant. The statement is not the black and white statement that W&L and other schools have used, so it is legitimate to wonder at why and to speculate. Same with the Centennial. It seems like it is easy for individual schools to say no way, but much harder, outside the Ivies, for conferences to absolutely shut the door for its members. And that seems perfectly understandable to me.

I think you're being very generous, and I'm not sure what you think is irrelevant.  Irrelevant in terms of being counted as not playing or playing?  On that score, maybe we need another category like "currently not intending to play but leaving the door open for consideration of some limited competition down the road."  The Middlebury statement seems pretty straightforward to me....no current plan for athletic competition, we understand that this is difficult news, reach out to your coaches if you like, along with other extracurriculars finding new ways to do what you love, and any sort of limited competition could be considered at the appropriate time and IF deemed safe to do so.  Is your read of the statement significantly different than mine?  Based on current circumstances, Middlebury is not going to be playing.

Isn't it also fair to ask what "any sort of limited competition" would mean, in the event there is an adjustment to the present stance?  One option is a relatively normal season with a shot at a NCAA tourney.  Other options could include a conference only schedule or a fully non-conference schedule where both meet the minimums for NCAA tourney consideration, and then finally, and the one seemingly applicable in this NESCAC discussion as an improbable but best case scenario, where a school "cobbles together" a few contests locally akin to what many non-NESCAC schools do in the Spring, like where Messiah has an official scrimmage with Bucknell, and a Kenyon has scrimmages with local Mt. Vernon Nazarene (NAIA), a D2 local school, and, let's say given the proximity, Denison.  Sure, the latter is better than nothing and may satisfy or partially appease some, but that's kind of irrelevant also from the point of view of "playing in the Fall" in a way that jives with the usual focus of this D3soccer.com site for instance.

Maybe our Tufts and Colby correspondents will chime in.  Also curious about Brandeis, as I suppose Tufts and Brandeis could play four times.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: jknezek on July 11, 2020, 02:29:44 PM
We just don't know. But there is a distinction between W&L's "no athletic competition in the Fall semester" and what other schools have written. That is important. If you have truly closed the door, as W&L did, it's a simple statement. If you want to leave wiggle room, then you write something wordy and convoluted like Middlebury. That's all. The wiggle room may not be needed, in my opinion it's very unlikely sports will be played, but Middlebury left themselves an option, W&L didn't bother.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on July 11, 2020, 02:41:59 PM
OK.  FWIW, I don't see the W&L info as much different than Midd's.  Very similar except for the possibility of considering a few games down the road.  And IF W&L ends up having a couple of scrimmages across the street with VMI I won't consider W&L as being deceptive.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: jknezek on July 11, 2020, 03:00:39 PM
"Considering these measures to keep our students, faculty and staff as safe as possible, the decision was made that athletics competition cannot continue until at least January 1, 2021.

The following sports are immediately impacted and will not contest a schedule during the fall of 2020: Men's & Women's Cross Country, Field Hockey, Football, Men's & Women's Soccer and Volleyball. "

--- W&L


If public health guidelines allow for any sort of limited competition at Middlebury, we will consider them at the appropriate time and only if it is safe to do so. 
--Middlebury

Cannot and Will Not by W&L, Consider and If by Middlebury. One has no door, one has an option. Maybe it's because I work in finance with options all the time, but part of my job is to value options, and even small ones have value. Middlebury left an option, W&L did not.

We can value Middlebury 's option differently, and I don't value it much as I said, but it exists. W&L's does not, so there is no value at all.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on July 11, 2020, 03:35:49 PM
Quote from: jknezek on July 11, 2020, 03:00:39 PM
"Considering these measures to keep our students, faculty and staff as safe as possible, the decision was made that athletics competition cannot continue until at least January 1, 2021.

The following sports are immediately impacted and will not contest a schedule during the fall of 2020: Men's & Women's Cross Country, Field Hockey, Football, Men's & Women's Soccer and Volleyball. "

--- W&L


If public health guidelines allow for any sort of limited competition at Middlebury, we will consider them at the appropriate time and only if it is safe to do so. 
--Middlebury

Cannot and Will Not by W&L, Consider and If by Middlebury. One has no door, one has an option. Maybe it's because I work in finance with options all the time, but part of my job is to value options, and even small ones have value. Middlebury left an option, W&L did not.

We can value Middlebury 's option differently, and I don't value it much as I said, but it exists. W&L's does not, so there is no value at all.

Maybe that's it...I'm NOT in finance lol.  I already conceded the difference between the two statements.  I read W&L's fine print and that was very similar in terms of coming back, interacting with coaches, possible practices, training, etc.  That's what I meant. 

I did enjoy reading about your President....a serious athlete, philosophy (and math) major at Williams and Ph.D. in philosophy from Northwestern.  As an undergrad philosophy major myself who got a masters in philosophy before a Ph.D. in clinical psych, and as a fellow Nietzsche fan, I was impressed.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: d3d3d3 on July 13, 2020, 01:48:31 PM
Union joins RPI as the second Liberty League institution to cancel fall athletics.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: y_jack_lok on July 13, 2020, 05:47:17 PM
Quote from: WUPHF on July 09, 2020, 02:54:22 PM
Quote from: EB2319 on July 09, 2020, 12:35:26 PM
Speaking of attrition... at schools that aren't playing this fall I'd be curious to see how many players say F 'it, and give up the sport. 

I think this could be a serious problem for schools in conferences such as the SLIAC.

Maybe that is why the SLIAC is apparently full steam ahead with fall sports. https://www.sliac.org/general/2020-21/releases/20200709lwviuh
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on July 14, 2020, 04:47:52 PM
And there goes my national championship....

With the rapid rise in COVID-19 cases in recent weeks, especially among young people, we cannot continue to plan for a return to competitive athletics this fall. Intercollegiate athletics competition will be canceled for the remainder of the 2020 calendar year. This is the right decision for the well-being of our entire Kenyon community. We appreciate your patience throughout this process, and we understand that for our student-athletes in particular, this news may be especially hard to take.

Please understand that athletics remains an important aspect of the Kenyon student experience. For now, however, it will have a different look. The Department of Athletics, Fitness and Recreation is committed to making that experience look and feel as meaningful as possible. Your coaches and staff are here to support you, and will be focused on establishing an environment that allows for our teams to reconvene in creative and purposeful ways. They will use this time to learn and grow in ways that build our community in sport and beyond.

At this time we do not yet know what lies ahead for our winter and spring sports seasons at Kenyon, and regret that there is continued uncertainty amid rapidly changing circumstances. We expect to have better data and information in the fall.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: CC United on July 15, 2020, 12:02:15 AM
Quote from: CC United on May 19, 2020, 02:15:10 PM
I'm interested in whether the NCAA will grant players waivers if the 2020 season is cut short, assuming it happens at all.  In Division 3, a player uses a year of eligibility if he participates in one official practice for that year.   The NCAA could get in front of the issue. That would help programs and athletes decide what to do when it's time to make a decision.

NCAA Division 3 Committee Approves Blanket Waiver:

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/diii-administrative-committee-approves-blanket-waivers-participation

Good news for a lot of players. 
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: southsidejet on July 15, 2020, 11:57:53 AM
Quote from: CC United on July 15, 2020, 12:02:15 AM
Quote from: CC United on May 19, 2020, 02:15:10 PM
I'm interested in whether the NCAA will grant players waivers if the 2020 season is cut short, assuming it happens at all.  In Division 3, a player uses a year of eligibility if he participates in one official practice for that year.   The NCAA could get in front of the issue. That would help programs and athletes decide what to do when it's time to make a decision.

NCAA Division 3 Committee Approves Blanket Waiver:

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/diii-administrative-committee-approves-blanket-waivers-participation

Good news for a lot of players.

So, what is considered the 'maximum' number of contests for D3 men's soccer (and is this number different in 2020-21 vs prior seasons)? Would this number also include conference & NCAA tournament games?
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 15, 2020, 01:23:50 PM
The maximum number of games hasn't changed in a number of years. It counts the regular season and one game for all conference tournament games (if a conference tournament is three, it is one "game"; if a conference doesn't have a tournament, the team can use that one as another game). NCAA tournament play does not count at all.

The maximum will not change even in a year like now. The maximum doesn't have a role in this case. The minimum is far more important to make sure a sport counts towards membership guidelines and to help schools that might lose a lot of games out of their control.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: NEPAFAN on July 15, 2020, 06:10:04 PM

1. Intercollegiate Athletics: The Presidents of the Landmark Conference unanimously agree that a return to athletic competition in the fall of 2020 is the intent of each respective member institution but only if it can be done safely.
a) Each member institution will continue to work within local and state health guidelines, along with guidance from national organizations such as the CDC, the American College Health Association (ACHA), and the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA), as they finalize their reopening plans.
b)The Landmark Conference's primary focus for the fall of 2020 will be competition among conference members; we plan to culminate with a conference postseason tournament.
c) Specific details regarding scheduling, the postseason, and other policies will come later this summer.
d)The Conference is also cognizant of the importance of its spectator policy to parents, alumni, and fans. We will make an announcement regarding a conference-wide spectator policy by Monday, August 3.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Buck O. on July 15, 2020, 09:58:49 PM
'Deis is out.

https://www.brandeisjudges.com/information/covid19/Fall2020Announcement
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Buck O. on July 15, 2020, 10:04:14 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 15, 2020, 01:23:50 PM
The maximum doesn't have a role in this case.

The press release says:  "Division III student-athletes will not be charged with participation for the 2020-21 season if their team can complete only 50% or less of the sport's maximum contests/dates of competition due to the ongoing impact of the COVID-19 pandemic."
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 15, 2020, 10:20:41 PM
Quote from: Buck O. on July 15, 2020, 10:04:14 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 15, 2020, 01:23:50 PM
The maximum doesn't have a role in this case.

The press release says:  "Division III student-athletes will not be charged with participation for the 2020-21 season if their team can complete only 50% or less of the sport's maximum contests/dates of competition due to the ongoing impact of the COVID-19 pandemic."

Because the minimums for all sports were basically reduced to half of the maximum. In basketball, for example, it is down to 12 - it was 15 or 16 I think? The max is 25. So half. That is why the wording because each sport has a different number.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Ron Boerger on July 16, 2020, 12:16:30 PM
The SCAC is the latest conference to call off Fall sports competition, with a nod to possible rescheduling in the Spring should conditions permit.   https://scacsports.com/news/covid19_update3
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: southsidejet on July 16, 2020, 12:47:35 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 15, 2020, 10:20:41 PM
Quote from: Buck O. on July 15, 2020, 10:04:14 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 15, 2020, 01:23:50 PM
The maximum doesn't have a role in this case.

The press release says:  "Division III student-athletes will not be charged with participation for the 2020-21 season if their team can complete only 50% or less of the sport's maximum contests/dates of competition due to the ongoing impact of the COVID-19 pandemic."

Because the minimums for all sports were basically reduced to half of the maximum. In basketball, for example, it is down to 12 - it was 15 or 16 I think? The max is 25. So half. That is why the wording because each sport has a different number.

This is important to identify because of the wording of the waiver. If 25 is the official max, a team can theoretically play 12 games combined and still not have it count as a 'spent' season for the players, correct? That could be a full conference schedule, conference tournament, plus an NCAA tournament game... seems high. I'm looking at the OAC who still plans on playing conference games at this point.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on July 16, 2020, 01:31:46 PM
https://www.mascac.com/news/2019-20_News/Fall_Sports_Statement

Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: jknezek on July 16, 2020, 02:34:43 PM
Quote from: southsidejet on July 16, 2020, 12:47:35 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 15, 2020, 10:20:41 PM
Quote from: Buck O. on July 15, 2020, 10:04:14 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 15, 2020, 01:23:50 PM
The maximum doesn't have a role in this case.

The press release says:  "Division III student-athletes will not be charged with participation for the 2020-21 season if their team can complete only 50% or less of the sport's maximum contests/dates of competition due to the ongoing impact of the COVID-19 pandemic."

Because the minimums for all sports were basically reduced to half of the maximum. In basketball, for example, it is down to 12 - it was 15 or 16 I think? The max is 25. So half. That is why the wording because each sport has a different number.

This is important to identify because of the wording of the waiver. If 25 is the official max, a team can theoretically play 12 games combined and still not have it count as a 'spent' season for the players, correct? That could be a full conference schedule, conference tournament, plus an NCAA tournament game... seems high. I'm looking at the OAC who still plans on playing conference games at this point.

The way the snowball is going it's not going to matter. Even if some schools still play, the NCAA can save a ton of money just by bagging the tournament. A bastardized tournament that includes maybe half of the teams? It's an easy justification and an easy cut. If your conference wants to play, that's all good, but will it really make sense to fly a pile of teams around for a half legitimate tournament?

I know they haven't announced any of that, but logically it makes no sense to have the risk or, maybe most important to the NCAA and D3, spend the money. Conference champions? Hang your banner. That's all you are likely to get. And every conference and school announcement brings the likely result closer.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: southsidejet on July 16, 2020, 03:27:16 PM
Quote from: jknezek on July 16, 2020, 02:34:43 PM
Quote from: southsidejet on July 16, 2020, 12:47:35 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 15, 2020, 10:20:41 PM
Quote from: Buck O. on July 15, 2020, 10:04:14 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 15, 2020, 01:23:50 PM
The maximum doesn't have a role in this case.

The press release says:  "Division III student-athletes will not be charged with participation for the 2020-21 season if their team can complete only 50% or less of the sport's maximum contests/dates of competition due to the ongoing impact of the COVID-19 pandemic."

Because the minimums for all sports were basically reduced to half of the maximum. In basketball, for example, it is down to 12 - it was 15 or 16 I think? The max is 25. So half. That is why the wording because each sport has a different number.

This is important to identify because of the wording of the waiver. If 25 is the official max, a team can theoretically play 12 games combined and still not have it count as a 'spent' season for the players, correct? That could be a full conference schedule, conference tournament, plus an NCAA tournament game... seems high. I'm looking at the OAC who still plans on playing conference games at this point.

The way the snowball is going it's not going to matter. Even if some schools still play, the NCAA can save a ton of money just by bagging the tournament. A bastardized tournament that includes maybe half of the teams? It's an easy justification and an easy cut. If your conference wants to play, that's all good, but will it really make sense to fly a pile of teams around for a half legitimate tournament?

I know they haven't announced any of that, but logically it makes no sense to have the risk or, maybe most important to the NCAA and D3, spend the money. Conference champions? Hang your banner. That's all you are likely to get. And every conference and school announcement brings the likely result closer.

The question revolves around just how many games could be played before a year of eligibility is burned up, nothing to do with the NCAA tournament being played or not (unless that adds more games obviously). The whole thing can be bagged obviously, but we're not there yet.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Hopkins92 on July 16, 2020, 03:32:43 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on July 14, 2020, 04:47:52 PM
And there goes my national championship....

With the rapid rise in COVID-19 cases in recent weeks, especially among young people, we cannot continue to plan for a return to competitive athletics this fall. Intercollegiate athletics competition will be canceled for the remainder of the 2020 calendar year. This is the right decision for the well-being of our entire Kenyon community. We appreciate your patience throughout this process, and we understand that for our student-athletes in particular, this news may be especially hard to take.

Please understand that athletics remains an important aspect of the Kenyon student experience. For now, however, it will have a different look. The Department of Athletics, Fitness and Recreation is committed to making that experience look and feel as meaningful as possible. Your coaches and staff are here to support you, and will be focused on establishing an environment that allows for our teams to reconvene in creative and purposeful ways. They will use this time to learn and grow in ways that build our community in sport and beyond.

At this time we do not yet know what lies ahead for our winter and spring sports seasons at Kenyon, and regret that there is continued uncertainty amid rapidly changing circumstances. We expect to have better data and information in the fall.

Without a vaccine, it's just irresponsible to play sports in the Fall.

These kids can't bubble up like MLS*, NBA and other PROFESSIONAL leagues that are attempting to come back in the middle of a global pandemic.

We're putting coaches and other staff LIVES at risk so guys and gals can kick a ball around in meaningless competitions#? C'mon.

* - And they had to send two teams home and postpone another match last week.

# - As has been exhaustively detailed on this thread, there aren't nearly enough schools playing to have any kind of "meaningful" season. Teams that decide to take this significant risk are going to be involved in a glorified Spring exhibition season.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on July 16, 2020, 03:45:57 PM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on July 16, 2020, 03:32:43 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on July 14, 2020, 04:47:52 PM
And there goes my national championship....

With the rapid rise in COVID-19 cases in recent weeks, especially among young people, we cannot continue to plan for a return to competitive athletics this fall. Intercollegiate athletics competition will be canceled for the remainder of the 2020 calendar year. This is the right decision for the well-being of our entire Kenyon community. We appreciate your patience throughout this process, and we understand that for our student-athletes in particular, this news may be especially hard to take.

Please understand that athletics remains an important aspect of the Kenyon student experience. For now, however, it will have a different look. The Department of Athletics, Fitness and Recreation is committed to making that experience look and feel as meaningful as possible. Your coaches and staff are here to support you, and will be focused on establishing an environment that allows for our teams to reconvene in creative and purposeful ways. They will use this time to learn and grow in ways that build our community in sport and beyond.

At this time we do not yet know what lies ahead for our winter and spring sports seasons at Kenyon, and regret that there is continued uncertainty amid rapidly changing circumstances. We expect to have better data and information in the fall.

Without a vaccine, it's just irresponsible to play sports in the Fall.

These kids can't bubble up like MLS*, NBA and other PROFESSIONAL leagues that are attempting to come back in the middle of a global pandemic.

We're putting coaches and other staff LIVES at risk so guys and gals can kick a ball around in meaningless competitions#? C'mon.

* - And they had to send two teams home and postpone another match last week.

# - As has been exhaustively detailed on this thread, there aren't nearly enough schools playing to have any kind of "meaningful" season. Teams that decide to take this significant risk are going to be involved in a glorified Spring exhibition season.

All this seemed pretty obvious to me at least a few weeks ago, but some/many disagree.  It is going to be harder and harder for administrators not to ask themselves "What are we doing here?"  We have blown through the endowment argument with some of the latest additions to the "not playing" list.  IMO, the most we could see is what is in the fine print of those NESCACs that hedged their statements ever so slightly....if the Fall ends up going better than expected then MAYBE a school can have 3-4 local scrimmages.  Eligibility looks safe.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Ron Boerger on July 16, 2020, 07:13:18 PM
The SAA has also cancelled fall sports.  https://www.saa-sports.com/general/2019-20/releases/20200716slnbjk
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 17, 2020, 11:51:26 AM
Quote from: southsidejet on July 16, 2020, 12:47:35 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 15, 2020, 10:20:41 PM
Quote from: Buck O. on July 15, 2020, 10:04:14 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 15, 2020, 01:23:50 PM
The maximum doesn't have a role in this case.

The press release says:  "Division III student-athletes will not be charged with participation for the 2020-21 season if their team can complete only 50% or less of the sport's maximum contests/dates of competition due to the ongoing impact of the COVID-19 pandemic."

Because the minimums for all sports were basically reduced to half of the maximum. In basketball, for example, it is down to 12 - it was 15 or 16 I think? The max is 25. So half. That is why the wording because each sport has a different number.

This is important to identify because of the wording of the waiver. If 25 is the official max, a team can theoretically play 12 games combined and still not have it count as a 'spent' season for the players, correct? That could be a full conference schedule, conference tournament, plus an NCAA tournament game... seems high. I'm looking at the OAC who still plans on playing conference games at this point.

12 is the minimum for DIII basketball. Hit that number and by the rules currently in place the year of eligibility will be used up. Again, as things stand now.

We have to remember we are in uncharted territory. The Division(s) is trying to handle things as best as possible with nothing to work from. They have been trying to keep things open and easy for schools and conferences to make their own decisions. No point in taking away the tournaments now when we are four months removed from said tournaments with far more understanding of something unknown than we did in March (which was also two months out from spring championship tournaments).

Things will probably change ... tomorrow or Monday or Friday or ... whenever. There are just too many things we don't know despite everything we have learned since March.

What I really fear is schools and conferences trying to wedge the fall into the spring. It sucks to lose the fall sports, but spring was already lost and trying to wedge fall into spring especially for institutions where resources are tight to begin with is going to be ... insane.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: jaybird44 on July 17, 2020, 04:35:24 PM
No fall sports at the University of Chicago...

https://athletics.uchicago.edu/general/2020-21/releases/20200716m11xzq
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Stryker on July 23, 2020, 09:36:50 AM
Liberty League cancels its fall season.


https://libertyleagueathletics.com/news/2020/7/22/general-liberty-league-statement-on-fall-semester-competition.aspx

Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: OldNed on July 23, 2020, 09:48:47 AM
St. Joseph's of Maine isn't throwing in the towel yet on some type of a fall season, despite the GNAC conference cancelling the conference schedule.  Perhaps with lower COVID rates in New England, and in Maine in particular, they might be able to cobble together some games against in-state opponents.

https://www.gomonks.com/general/2020-21/releases/20200720fgsxg8
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: midwest on July 23, 2020, 02:38:47 PM
NCAC cancels intercollegiate sports through 12/31. Oberlin and Kenyon had already cancelled their own sports programs for the fall, I don't know how many other conference members had also cancelled.

https://www.northcoast.org/News/2020-21/Releases/NCACFallSemester
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: fishercats on July 23, 2020, 02:53:48 PM
As of yesterday, "Count is 210 of 448 institutions and 20 of 45 conferences as of July 23 10:00 AM EDT." https://d3soccer.com/notables/2020/COVID-Status-of-Play (https://d3soccer.com/notables/2020/COVID-Status-of-Play). This is just over 45%.

My kid's coach stated that 40-50% cancelling pretty much represents a tipping point for NCAA calling it off.

This isn't looking good if you were hoping for any type of "regular" looking season.

Some conferences are still committed to playing, but whether that is for a conference or NCAA championship, or for a more informal-type season, is yet to be determined.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PlaySimple on July 23, 2020, 05:39:10 PM
Quote from: fishercats on July 23, 2020, 02:53:48 PM

Some conferences are still committed to playing, but whether that is for a conference or NCAA championship, or for a more informal-type season, is yet to be determined.

Even with the conferences that are committed to playing, I'm more of the attitude that it probably won't happen. And if a season does start, it will be short. To me it seems inevitable that someone will test positive at some point.

Of the conferences that have canceled, it seems that most of them are dispersed geographically (UAA), in areas with a lot of Covid cases (CUNYAC), or have large student populations that are from a lot of different areas of the country (NESCAC, NCAC). A lot of those aforementioned schools have large endowments also and can weather whatever financial setback that canceling sports might impose on them. For D3 athletics that is usually the loss of tuition due to athletes not attending a university for sport. That doesn't happen a lot at the D3 level, as students tend to be more academically motivated to attend a particular institution, but it does occur. There are plenty of D3 schools that are marginal from an academic standpoint.

Some conferences that seem to be committed to playing are the Ohio Athletic Conference (OAC), the Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Conference (MIAA), and the Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference (WIAC). All of those conferences are composed entirely of members within their respective states with the exception of some affiliate members of the WIAC that are from Minnesota and are members for only one sport. Additionally, the MIAA has two members from Indiana (Trine & St. Mary's College) but those schools are very close to the Indiana-Michigan border. The schools in all of the mentioned conferences primarily attract students from within their respective geographic areas and the administrators probably believe that there is low risk. With the NCAC that I mentioned earlier, while it is true that all except two of the schools are in Ohio, the schools seem to attract students that are from a lot of different areas of the country.

I have heard that the CCIW will be deciding tomorrow what they intend on doing. I'll be surprised if they have any sort of a season.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 23, 2020, 06:07:10 PM
Be aware with the CUNYAC - New York is now one of the lowest COVID cases areas in the country.

The concern is actually that numbers are increasing again in general (some places far higher than others) and what the flu season will do to add to the misery.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: southsidejet on July 24, 2020, 12:42:26 PM
OAC most likely cancelling their fall season this afternoon, per sources.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Stryker on July 24, 2020, 02:04:58 PM
Middle Atlantic Conference cancelled its fall season.

https://fdudevils.com/news/2020/7/24/general-mac-suspends-intercollegiate-competition-for-fall-2020.aspx
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Ejay on July 24, 2020, 03:42:34 PM
Is the ODAC the first conference to announce their intention to move fall sports to the spring? I don't recall seeing that from anyone else.

"The ODAC remains focused on providing meaningful competition for all student-athletes in 2020-21, which includes an intention to sponsor conference competition for fall and winter sports in the spring semester."

https://www.odaconline.com/general/2020-21/releases/072120-odac-update
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Gregory Sager on July 24, 2020, 04:40:20 PM
... and there goes the OAC's fall season:

https://www.oac.org/MISC/COVID-19_2020/Fall_Postponed
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: ThankstoJack on July 24, 2020, 04:41:39 PM
There have been conferences several that mentioned exploring Spring 2021 play in their suspension/cancellation announcements, but this from the SCAC was a separate statement and very explicit.

SCAC Statement Regarding Alternative Playing Seasons for 2020-21 Academic Year   https://scacsports.prestosports.com/news/covid19_update4 (https://scacsports.prestosports.com/news/covid19_update4)
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PlaySimple on July 24, 2020, 05:40:15 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on July 24, 2020, 04:40:20 PM
... and there goes the OAC's fall season:

https://www.oac.org/MISC/COVID-19_2020/Fall_Postponed

Some schools or conferences are wording their press releases as the season being "postponed" vs others that are stating "canceled." I don't realistically feel that the fall sports can be moved to the spring but is the wording being used to still leave that as an option? To me it's just not feasible. Schools will not have the facilities or personnel to accommodate that. There's been more talk of this happening at the D1 level but even most of those schools will not have the ability or resources to pull it off.

I read through the OAC press release and to me it was vague in terms of the fall sports being played later. It never said that the season would be moved but it never stated that it wouldn't, either. All that was clear was that the winter sports of basketball, indoor track and field, swimming and diving, and wrestling will also have intercollegiate competition postponed during the 2020 calendar year, with plans to resume in January 2021. That is optimistic as well and it will not happen, IMHO, if there is not a vaccine by that time.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: CC United on July 25, 2020, 02:00:41 PM
The NCAA is considering legislation that will allow fall sports to compete in the spring.  Based on this, the Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference (SCAC)(which includes Trinity Texas & Colorado College) created a task force of member schools to plan for intercollegiate competition in the spring for fall sports. I do not expect a regular season to be played in the spring, but I think teams cold play some kind of schedule against conference and/or no conference opponents if we get a vaccine. I am a realist and understand a spring season may not happen.  However, I think the SCAC schools and other conferences will make it happen if the Pandemic takes a significant turn for the better. The logistical concerns expressed by some about playing in the spring are legitimate, but in my opinion overstate the problem and underestimate the institutions desire to make it happen. Watching D3 teams play will lift all our spirits whenever it happens.  We're overdue for some good news. I am predicting a majority of D3 soccer programs will play games in the spring and this Board will be back to the usual banter with strong previews by Mr. Right, which I miss. With that in mind, I'll respond to any comments in May 2021.

https://scacsports.prestosports.com/news/covid19_update4
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on July 25, 2020, 02:54:17 PM
First, kudos to whoever is putting together the lists on the site and keeping them updated.  I'm sure it's a ton of work.  Second, I'm not following all of the nuances about some schools being listed as not playing in 2020 and others not being listed (yet).  Maybe there are a couple of errors but some omissions (like OAC and MAC) are stated as intentional.  Middlebury and Trinity (CT) were cited as examples of NESCACs still open to considering some type of limited competition, but both have been listed as not playing in 2020 for a while now.  There are others like St Joseph's (ME) listed as not playing that have posted similar language about the possibility of trying to cobble together some competition (and St. Joe's specifically cites possibly schools in ME and NH).  Then there is Rochester that is not listed because of being "in the process of identifying competitive opportunities for our teams."  Given all the schools in that area already committed to not playing, I'm not sure what that could mean.   Maybe local community colleges, D2 schools?  Just with respect to Rochester, my cynicism suggests to me that UR is playing games with language, and at best they are referring to a few exhibition-style encounters.  I'll take the liberty to say that with UR since I paid them over 200K.  At any rate, reading the OAC and MAC statements, I don't see any references to even a possibility of their schools having real competition in 2020 (unless I missed something or member schools have some different language).  I do see references to hoping for the Spring, but obviously that would be 2021 and determined well down the road.   

I agree with both views expressed thus far about Spring....that 1) schools, just like the ones with language about some form of limited competition, are trying as hard as they can to soften the blow, not lose students, and leave those glimmers of hope (while virtually every school talks about the devastating news and promise robust involvement with coaches, training, leadership opportunities, and maybe, eventually working up to full practices); and 2) that schools will aggressively pursue some form of competition in the Spring.  Regarding the latter, I would think a Spring season would be more meaningful if most or all D3s limit themselves in the Fall to no more than a few exhibition-type competitions.  For example, if the MIAA follows through with a full round robin schedule, wouldn't that put them out of a potential Spring season with a possible tournament?

Addendum re: Spring.....who knows?  The focus mostly has been on whether schools can handle putting on Fall and Spring athletics at the same time.  That's presuming there will be Spring athletics.  We're all hoping for that I'm sure, maybe even expecting that.  Still a ton of questions.  Will an effective vaccine be ready?  Can it be sufficiently distributed soon enough?  Will enough people accept and take a vaccine?  How the Fall in general goes in the country may be highly impactful.  Better than expected, or worse?  And to what extent will the virus still be a problem in December, January, February, March.  So much can happen between now and then.  I mean, just in the sports world, Kobe Bryant and his daughter (and all the other passengers) died in 2020.  Watching The Last Dance seems like months and months ago.   And right in the middle of the next six to seven months is an election that -- whatever the result -- is going to rock the country as a good portion of the country will be traumatized (adding to the trauma already endured in 2020). 

At least Zion is back in the bubble ;).
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: ThankstoJack on July 25, 2020, 04:54:14 PM
Thanks for the comment on Fall 2020 Status of Play Updates. You are correct; it is lot of work. The most difficult part may be trying to decipher the statements from the schools. If they leave a bit of wiggle room, whether it's cynically or not, I don't feel it's my place to declare them out. That does bring up the issue of monitoring for changes. I monitor all the conference and individual RSS feeds but if the update isn't posted on the athletics pages, I don't see it. I will take a look at those you mentioned and update as necessary.

As for St. Joseph's (Maine), I missed that they are exploring competition with other colleges and universities. When I looked yesterday, NVU-Johnson, NVU-Lyndon, and Maine-Presque Isle all specifically declared they were looking for competition this fall. Also, Colby's last COVID related statement on their athletics pages was in March. Their campus wide plan notes in their "Athletics" section that they are "exploring possibilities for a more limited, local competition schedule". So, there are possibilities. Not exactly short trips though.

I agree on UR. From a distance I can't see why they are taking that position when the UAA and virtually all other New York D-III's will not be playing in 2020.

With all the conference statements Wed., Thu., and Fri. it became impossible to maintain the individual institutions. And now with considerably more than half saying no Fall 2020 play I decided might be better to create a (shorter) list of who hasn't closed the door rather than who is definitely not playing in 2020.  That stopped when my wife popped in and said, "Why are you working on the website so much? I though you told me the season was going to be cancelled. ;D.

As for the spring, I would love to see it, but the resource issue seems to be a high hurdle. I mentioned the possibility of a spring season to my often injured, former D-III soccer playing daughter and her immediate comment was about the already overworked athletic trainers. However, I will note that most of this week's conference statements about postponing/cancelling the fall season do state fairly emphatically their desire for some sort of spring soccer, and other fall sports.

In any case if anyone sees errors please let me know at d3soccer.com@gmail.com.

Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on July 25, 2020, 06:12:26 PM
+k ThankstoJack!

I agree/concede that it's not your role nor mine to out-think the languaging, although the exact words used are interesting to look at and compare.  That said, I do think there is a major difference between a school saying they are open to considering some limited local competition and schools/conferences intending to still have something more akin to a regular season (like I guess the MIAA is still planning/hoping for).  The former in my mind is hesitant and limited enough to conclude that the school is conceding that at best they'll try to put something together so players can have a taste of competitive play with no illusions about anything resembling a regular season.  Colby, for instance, could talk cross-town Thomas into a couple of games and maybe a game or two with another school like Presque Isle.

And thanks for clarifying you just had not gotten to the OAC and MAC yet, as opposed to not listing them for some other reason.  I agree that at this point a shorter lists of who is keeping the door ajar and/or still planning full steam ahead may be easier.

Thanks again for the time you're devoting.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: College Soccer Observer on July 25, 2020, 10:20:56 PM
Given the campus protocols Middlebury will be operating under, I cannot see any way that they could do anything more than a game or two in late October if everything goes perfectly.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PlaySimple on July 27, 2020, 12:55:43 PM
CCIW........

https://cciw.org/news/2020/7/27/general-cciw-postpones-fall-2020-competition.aspx

Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on July 27, 2020, 07:42:45 PM
From UMass-Boston on June 22 (and Bowdoin on June 25) to 329 by July 27.  Pretty stunning.

Calvin still alive, though!
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Vasoccer757 on July 28, 2020, 01:38:10 PM
USA south just pulled the plug on fall sports happening. That conference has 18 Members (some are women only).

https://www.usasouth.net/general/2019-20/releases/20200721h1jgh9
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dubuquer on July 28, 2020, 02:57:49 PM
WIAC pulls the plug on fall sports: https://wiacsports.com/news/2020/7/27/general-wiac-fall-statement-on-covid-19.aspx

The ARC, however, chooses to move forward: https://rollrivers.com/news/2020/7/27/football-american-rivers-conference-to-proceed-with-conference-competition-for-fall-2020.aspx

We will see if they are able to pull that off.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Ejay on July 28, 2020, 10:00:33 PM
NJAC suspends all fall sport contests and league championships though they "will pursue every avenue within the NCAA governance structure to explore the provision of a competitive season for the fall sport student-athletes during the spring 2021 semester".

IMHO, this is the death knell for D3 sports this fall.  The NJAC's full members are entirely NJ state schools with large percentages of in-state students.  And NJ has one of the lowest current infection/spread rates in the country. In other words, it's one of the safest states and even they're calling it a day.

https://njacsports.com/news/2020/7/27/football-statement-by-the-new-jersey-athletic-conference-regarding-fall-sports.aspx
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: fishercats on July 30, 2020, 02:21:03 PM
Expecting a Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association Athletics fall sports announcement sometime today. Just saw some news about MIAA football starting to leak.

https://www.woodtv.com/ncaa/ncaa-football/miaa-canceled-football-in-fall/#:~:text=GRAND%20RAPIDS%2C%20Mich.,to%20114%20days%20of%20practice. (https://www.woodtv.com/ncaa/ncaa-football/miaa-canceled-football-in-fall/#:~:text=GRAND%20RAPIDS%2C%20Mich.,to%20114%20days%20of%20practice.)

I am seeing at least three big questions now:
- Do NCAA and conferences move the season to the spring?
- What are teams allowed to do in the Fall?
- What will be the impact on eligibility, especially this year's seniors. Specifically, will anyone really stay around for a 5th year?


Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 30, 2020, 11:03:43 PM
DIII has already announced a waiver for eligibility. If teams don't play 50% of their allotted games, the waiver is good across the board.

I think teams are allowed to do some team activities. DIII moved the system to "days" instead of "weeks" to allow more flexibility. Ii don't know how this impacts things as I haven't had time to take it for a deep dive, but it would seem with the "days" option that teams could use some time this fall for team activities.

Spring is going to be nearly impossible even if COVID wasn't a factor.
- There isn't a school in DIII that has the athletic training, game day, sports information, and other staffing to handle that many sports playing games and having practices in a day let alone a week.
- Now add in facility challenges in terms of locker rooms and fields and it gets even more complicated.
- Add in anyone who has football and lacrosse and you can imagine the challenges. And football is about the only one with one game a week - the time lost to make sure a field is ready for one sport's game kills practices. Johns Hopkins (plenty of money) has one field for football, men's and women's soccer, field hockey, and men's and women's lacrosse (which also happens to be DI).
- Also many fall sports won't be able to get on their fields in the spring ... can you imagine soccer trying to get on fields especially if they don't have turf in February or March in most parts of this country (for DIII)?
- Of course, many schools also rotate locker rooms (lacrosse may use football for example).

NOW add in COVID restrictions or challenges which may be improved but might not be gone come February or so. That means cleaning down locker rooms and training rooms ... it means some places using locker rooms for training rooms to spread out tables (I'm aware of a few schools that have considered this).

And we haven't even consider the winter sports that may still be ongoing or pushed themselves ... adding to the staffing challenges along with facility pressures and the like. Men's and women's basketball having to deal with women's volleyball wanting to practice ... and add in men's volleyball for some schools. Ice hockey programs will take up a lot of resources that spring and fall sports would need. Swimming and diving may be the easiest to deal with for a lot of reasons, but there is still staffing needs that will take away from other sports.

I'll add one more thought: the spring sports already got hammered last spring with COVID. By adding fall to spring, the spring athletes are once again getting the short end of the stick. Not only because the fall sports are taking some of the spotlight, but because of the pressures that will be on everyone to make it work diminishing the spring sports a bit - maybe taking their practice times or best availability and such. And I am sure the spring athletes may have a bit of negative feelings that the fall sports are getting all this effort to make their seasons work while they got left gutted in March.

And then you have two-sport athletes who now are left with having to make a choice.

I appreciate that schools and conferences are saying "we will try and play in the spring," but I think it might be a bit of smoke and trying to make it seem like a nice thing. I just don't think it is realistic. Schools can't afford to bring in the staffing to make it work. Schools don't have the facilities to make it happen. There isn't enough time in the day for all the practices (especially if a game is thrown in there).

I just don't see it happening... though I am sure some will try hard. I just hope they don't anger athletes by saying they will move things to the spring when they likely know this won't work.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: NEPAFAN on July 31, 2020, 10:22:11 AM
Landmark Fall is done...just brutal.....
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PlaySimple on July 31, 2020, 11:02:40 AM
Quote from: fishercats on July 30, 2020, 02:21:03 PM
I am seeing at least three big questions now:
- Do NCAA and conferences move the season to the spring?
- What are teams allowed to do in the Fall?
- What will be the impact on eligibility, especially this year's seniors. Specifically, will anyone really stay around for a 5th year?

d-mac gave a very thorough explanation of why he believes that D3 fall athletics will have a challenging task in moving the season to the spring. I tend to agree with about all that he said. While it is a good thought, it will be nearly impossible to logistically pull it off.  There may be some schools/conferences that have the facilities and personnel to make it work but I would think that those would be in the minority. There are plenty of D3 athletes, though, that will be fine with a short season if that is all that will be possible. Many athletes just want to compete. If it becomes obvious that a school or conference will be able to have the fall sports compete in the spring, I do hope that the athletes are not strung along and the information is conveyed to them early.

d-mac also touched on the two-sport athletes and having to make a choice. I see that as difficult and it will also leave some teams short-handed. A good number of soccer players and football players participate in track and field in the spring. There area also some football players that play lacrosse. There are the field hockey players that play lacrosse. Also, look at the cross country runners. Cross country is a fall sport but just about all cross country runners participate in track. Many distance runners prefer XC to track but there is no way that XC gets moved to the spring. That sport will just be scratched this year. The examples go on and on.

Lastly, fishercats, you asked this question: "What will be the impact on eligibility, especially this year's seniors. Specifically, will anyone really stay around for a 5th year?"

To answer that, I can't see any D3 athlete staying around for another year just because they have the year of eligibility remaining. Where that will come into play, though, will be the athlete that may not be graduating in 4 years and will be around for a 5th year for academic reasons anyway. I would think that the rule will also apply to those starting graduate school. If a graduate program allows the time for athletic participation there will be some that might participate. This is fairly common at the D1 level. I would also think that if any athlete is talented enough to play at the D1 level and is attending graduate school at a D1 school that they would be able to use that eligibility at the D1 school. The athlete wold more than likely be participating as a walk-athlete, though, and not a scholarship athlete. Joe Burrow upon graduation from Ohio State did famously quarterback LSU to a National Championship and won a Heisman Trophy for himself while he was a graduate student but that example is a huge exception. It is rare that a D3 athlete would be able to win a scholarship at a D1 school as a 5th year participant but it could be done as there are many D3 athletes that are talented enough to play at a D1 school). But to reiterate, again, no student-athlete will stay at a D3 school for a 5th year for athletic purposes only.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: College Soccer Observer on July 31, 2020, 12:31:43 PM
100% disagree with the last sentence.  Many will take a semester off so that they can return and play next fall.  Underclassmen will do the same thing.  Most of my son's teammates are planning on taking off a semester at some point, and 75% of the seniors will do so in order to compete next fall.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Ejay on July 31, 2020, 01:43:25 PM
75% of Middlebury seniors are not graduating on time so they can play one more season of soccer?? That's surprising.  And what do you mean for about underclassman taking a semester off "at some point"? So assuming things return to normal, or somewhat normal, the Soph's will still think about taking a spring semester off at some point ust to get the extra year?
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Ommadawn on July 31, 2020, 01:50:17 PM
Quote from: College Soccer Observer on July 31, 2020, 12:31:43 PM
100% disagree with the last sentence.  Many will take a semester off so that they can return and play next fall.  Underclassmen will do the same thing.  Most of my son's teammates are planning on taking off a semester at some point, and 75% of the seniors will do so in order to compete next fall.

This is consistent with what I've heard, too, particularly among rising seniors.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PlaySimple on July 31, 2020, 02:01:48 PM
Quote from: Ommadawn on July 31, 2020, 01:50:17 PM
Quote from: College Soccer Observer on July 31, 2020, 12:31:43 PM
100% disagree with the last sentence.  Many will take a semester off so that they can return and play next fall.  Underclassmen will do the same thing.  Most of my son's teammates are planning on taking off a semester at some point, and 75% of the seniors will do so in order to compete next fall.

This is consistent with what I've heard, too, particularly among rising seniors.

A rising senior taking a semester off so that can graduate later? Pay the higher tuition that comes with that? Delay starting graduate school or starting in the workforce? I know that this is a difficult time to be starting out in the workforce but there are still a lot of unknowns. I just don't see someone taking a semester off so that they can play another season of soccer.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: College Soccer Observer on July 31, 2020, 05:06:13 PM
Quote from: PlaySimple on July 31, 2020, 02:01:48 PM
Quote from: Ommadawn on July 31, 2020, 01:50:17 PM
Quote from: College Soccer Observer on July 31, 2020, 12:31:43 PM
100% disagree with the last sentence.  Many will take a semester off so that they can return and play next fall.  Underclassmen will do the same thing.  Most of my son's teammates are planning on taking off a semester at some point, and 75% of the seniors will do so in order to compete next fall.

This is consistent with what I've heard, too, particularly among rising seniors.

A rising senior taking a semester off so that can graduate later? Pay the higher tuition that comes with that? Delay starting graduate school or starting in the workforce? I know that this is a difficult time to be starting out in the workforce but there are still a lot of unknowns. I just don't see someone taking a semester off so that they can play another season of soccer.

My son's teammates are all opting to take a semester off at some point, and he plans to as well. They can work, do an internship, etc.  This is a testament to two things.  1. The culture of the program where players do not want to miss out on a season of competition with their closest friends.  2.  The alumni network is so strong that most of players are graduating with job offers in hand.  I think very few are going to suffer financially by postponing graduation because they are not going to school for an extra semester.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Flying Weasel on August 01, 2020, 10:38:05 AM
Given the fact that, while not common or typical, it is far from unheard of for student-athletes who suffer injuries to stay in college for an extra semester/year to use all four years of eligibility, I am surprised anyone would think that almost no one would do so because of Covid-19.  At the same time, I am surprised to hear a number like 75% doing so, and I am sure that across the board in D-III the percent will not be anywhere close to that.

This is a unique situation and I can see some logic in thinking that if ever there was a time to defer trying to enter the workforce and getting started on a career, now would be one of those times.  The finances of extending your college enrollment would rule out that option for many, but for many others that may not be the case.   

Different players and their families will have different outlooks and mindsets about "getting on with life" and they will have different options available to them due to their different financial situations and other factors.  I never played intercollegiate sports myself, but just in general with respect to life decisions, as I have gotten older, I have often thought that when I was younger that I should have been less mature in some of my life decisions and "gone for it" at times to have experiences that largely can't be had later down life's journey.  You only live once and can't go back and do it over.  You have the rest of your life to work, to pay off debt, etc.  It's a fine line and a tough balance, and I'm not advocating to be completely irresponsible.  These are tough decisions for the kids and their families.  The 20-something me would probably be saying that most players should just graduate on schedule and get a job and get on with life.  All these years later, I am much more conflicted and less opinionated on what is the right approach.

The one thing that I wonder about is whether the Fall 2021 season will be a normal one or not.  I certainly hope so, but as this pandemic extends on with much uncertainty remaining, who knows.  Not sure if that is factoring into the thought- and decision-making process for players and their families.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Ejay on August 03, 2020, 10:23:41 AM
More and more coaches we're talking to are indicating they will play some kind of season in the spring.  Not "may play", but "will play". And this is not the 15 day one scrimmage season either...
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: blue_jays on August 03, 2020, 02:40:10 PM
Quote from: EB2319 on August 03, 2020, 10:23:41 AM
More and more coaches we're talking to are indicating they will play some kind of season in the spring.  Not "may play", but "will play". And this is not the 15 day one scrimmage season either...

Honestly it doesn't matter what the coaches think in terms of the spring. It all comes down to what the Athletic Directors decide in terms of what is best for everyone in the athletic department. At this point we don't even know if winter sports will be played, much less prognosticate the spring.
Playing fall sports during the spring of 2021 is a fool's errand unless they want to make it intramural and not count as an official season. As has been pointed out by many, folding the busiest sports season (fall) into the second busiest sports season (spring) will never work logistically, especially with health protocols and limited space for facilities, practice, locker rooms, and staffing events.
Not to mention the budgets of every school in the country are going to be reduced, the pandemic is taking a toll on every university's budget for the fiscal year that has just begun.
Good luck to these schools trying to tell the spring sports they will get the shaft once again, that's what departmental mutinies are made of.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 03, 2020, 05:32:30 PM
Quote from: EB2319 on August 03, 2020, 10:23:41 AM
More and more coaches we're talking to are indicating they will play some kind of season in the spring.  Not "may play", but "will play". And this is not the 15 day one scrimmage season either...

They can say that all they want ... but they may want to talk to their ADs before they try and schedule (or, I guess they could schedule and then find out the hard way).

I think a number of fall teams may try and cobble something nice this spring to help the seniors. Maybe a home-and-home with someone near by, but any resemblance of any reasonable schedule or competition ... let alone NCAA championships ... isn't going to happen.

I can say this much: Fall Championships will be canceled this week. Either the NCAA BOG is going to do it or the Division will do it. And "canceled" not "postponed." Coaches can make all the effort they want, but they need to be realistic and to do so would require them to see the bigger picture outside of their sport.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on August 04, 2020, 10:37:49 AM
Well, that was fast.

We've gone from some insistence that we could still see a meaningful season/competition this Fall just 3-4 weeks ago to almost a full rule out of a Spring season. 

IMO it's too early to conjecture about Spring 2021.  While the odds now seem more likely that a Spring season won't happen I do believe there is a scenario where it could.  A week ago I was inquiring with some dealers about electric mopeds/scooters, and the one reasonably close to me said they were out of stock and would not be getting anymore this year.  I then asked if they expected new inventory in 2021, and the woman laughed and replied "Who knows what is going to happen in 2021!"  Same thing here.  I don't think we know.  I'm not buying the resources argument.  As has been argued for the Fall, schools and conferences are chomping at the bit for an "all clear" signal, and the pent-up frustration/energy is only going to escalate.  I would think most schools are desperate to deliver great news and will be highly motivated to deliver if there is an "all clear" soon enough to execute.  I have no idea what that cut-off date would be (maybe Feb 1, Feb 15, March 1?), and I have my doubts that all of the components of an "all clear" (effective vaccine PLUS adequate distribution in time) can happen soon enough.  That said, if there is great news that is actionable then I think a lot of schools will want to make a season happen even if resources are tight and overwhelmed for a handful or so of weeks.  As I've said, the carrot of a possible Spring season no doubt has a strategic element, but if statements being made about seriously considering a Spring season are fully disingenuous that would be very disappointing.

The biggest barrier may be something someone mentioned above.  Assuming there is an "all clear," and assuming that many schools will not find the resource issue prohibitive, the key factor could come down to Winter sports.  It's hard to argue for having Fall sports in the Spring if the Winter sports don't happen, and while things certainly could change, an "all clear" for Winter sports seems highly unlikely, especially given the strong possibility that the Fall could be very bad in terms of surges, 2nd wave, etc.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: blue_jays on August 04, 2020, 02:50:59 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on August 04, 2020, 10:37:49 AM
Well, that was fast.

We've gone from some insistence that we could still see a meaningful season/competition this Fall just 3-4 weeks ago to almost a full rule out of a Spring season. 

IMO it's too early to conjecture about Spring 2021.  While the odds now seem more likely that a Spring season won't happen I do believe there is a scenario where it could.  A week ago I was inquiring with some dealers about electric mopeds/scooters, and the one reasonably close to me said they were out of stock and would not be getting anymore this year.  I then asked if they expected new inventory in 2021, and the woman laughed and replied "Who knows what is going to happen in 2021!"  Same thing here.  I don't think we know.  I'm not buying the resources argument.  As has been argued for the Fall, schools and conferences are chomping at the bit for an "all clear" signal, and the pent-up frustration/energy is only going to escalate.  I would think most schools are desperate to deliver great news and will be highly motivated to deliver if there is an "all clear" soon enough to execute.  I have no idea what that cut-off date would be (maybe Feb 1, Feb 15, March 1?), and I have my doubts that all of the components of an "all clear" (effective vaccine PLUS adequate distribution in time) can happen soon enough.  That said, if there is great news that is actionable then I think a lot of schools will want to make a season happen even if resources are tight and overwhelmed for a handful or so of weeks.  As I've said, the carrot of a possible Spring season no doubt has a strategic element, but if statements being made about seriously considering a Spring season are fully disingenuous that would be very disappointing.

The biggest barrier may be something someone mentioned above.  Assuming there is an "all clear," and assuming that many schools will not find the resource issue prohibitive, the key factor could come down to Winter sports.  It's hard to argue for having Fall sports in the Spring if the Winter sports don't happen, and while things certainly could change, an "all clear" for Winter sports seems highly unlikely, especially given the strong possibility that the Fall could be very bad in terms of surges, 2nd wave, etc.

Resources matter more than you're giving it credit for. Locker room space is a huge issue if you're doubling the sports that need access, plus doubling your opponents. Can't socially distance effectively in that scenario. Athletic trainers are required at practices and games, and they're spread thin in the best of times. Hiring outside help gets expensive, and every school is gonna have some budget crunch this year, even the high endowment schools. Not to mention your overworked facilities staff that takes care of the fields and preps them for games and practices year round.
When lacrosse, soccer, football and track all use the same stadium facility, how's that gonna work for games and practices?
And whose gonna staff the games especially when they're all playing simultaneously? We're talking D3 schools with 1-2 person shops who rely on student manpower to accomplish these things. If spring gets played, it's likely just spring sports.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on August 04, 2020, 07:18:04 PM
Quote from: blue_jays on August 04, 2020, 02:50:59 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on August 04, 2020, 10:37:49 AM
Well, that was fast.

We've gone from some insistence that we could still see a meaningful season/competition this Fall just 3-4 weeks ago to almost a full rule out of a Spring season. 

IMO it's too early to conjecture about Spring 2021.  While the odds now seem more likely that a Spring season won't happen I do believe there is a scenario where it could.  A week ago I was inquiring with some dealers about electric mopeds/scooters, and the one reasonably close to me said they were out of stock and would not be getting anymore this year.  I then asked if they expected new inventory in 2021, and the woman laughed and replied "Who knows what is going to happen in 2021!"  Same thing here.  I don't think we know.  I'm not buying the resources argument.  As has been argued for the Fall, schools and conferences are chomping at the bit for an "all clear" signal, and the pent-up frustration/energy is only going to escalate.  I would think most schools are desperate to deliver great news and will be highly motivated to deliver if there is an "all clear" soon enough to execute.  I have no idea what that cut-off date would be (maybe Feb 1, Feb 15, March 1?), and I have my doubts that all of the components of an "all clear" (effective vaccine PLUS adequate distribution in time) can happen soon enough.  That said, if there is great news that is actionable then I think a lot of schools will want to make a season happen even if resources are tight and overwhelmed for a handful or so of weeks.  As I've said, the carrot of a possible Spring season no doubt has a strategic element, but if statements being made about seriously considering a Spring season are fully disingenuous that would be very disappointing.

The biggest barrier may be something someone mentioned above.  Assuming there is an "all clear," and assuming that many schools will not find the resource issue prohibitive, the key factor could come down to Winter sports.  It's hard to argue for having Fall sports in the Spring if the Winter sports don't happen, and while things certainly could change, an "all clear" for Winter sports seems highly unlikely, especially given the strong possibility that the Fall could be very bad in terms of surges, 2nd wave, etc.

Resources matter more than you're giving it credit for. Locker room space is a huge issue if you're doubling the sports that need access, plus doubling your opponents. Can't socially distance effectively in that scenario. Athletic trainers are required at practices and games, and they're spread thin in the best of times. Hiring outside help gets expensive, and every school is gonna have some budget crunch this year, even the high endowment schools. Not to mention your overworked facilities staff that takes care of the fields and preps them for games and practices year round.
When lacrosse, soccer, football and track all use the same stadium facility, how's that gonna work for games and practices?
And whose gonna staff the games especially when they're all playing simultaneously? We're talking D3 schools with 1-2 person shops who rely on student manpower to accomplish these things. If spring gets played, it's likely just spring sports.

I think my overall message is that a real soccer season in the Spring is unlikely.  But the scenario where I suggested it might happen was based on the idea that there would be no need for social distancing (which also may be unlikely).  However, if there is a true "all clear" I do believe many schools will be anxious to make as many students happy as possible, especially when the crisis will have dragged on longer and caused more damage than probably any of them expected a few months ago. 
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Hopkins92 on August 05, 2020, 10:53:13 AM
Good to see D-Mac and PaulN keeping it real with the resource issue. EXTREMELY tricky for even D1 schools to spread out the support staff, let along locker rooms and fields. A lot of east coast schools have limited real estate and struggle in normal times to find practice and game day fields.

I want to highlight the training staff issue. At the high school level, this makes stacking Fall and Spring sports a complete non-starter. I know there's a range of AD budgets across D3, but this isn't a "nice to have," there are liability issues at play here... You have to have training staff at every game.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Jim Dixon on August 05, 2020, 01:52:10 PM
Looking past the fall, if there is not some real solution to the pandemic than the spring seasons will be in jeopardy. I do not see any real slow down in preparing for a 2021 baseball season with 15% of the games scheduled to date (typical for this time) but nothing will stop this than a vaccine or cure with a vaccine the most likely. Great progress but getting it to the world will take many months and as much as I might debate, D-III baseball players are not the most in need.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Flying Weasel on August 05, 2020, 02:09:25 PM
The NCAA Board of Governor's is leaving it to each division to decide if fall championships can be conducted while providing guidelines it will enforce.

https://www.ncaa.com/live-updates/ncaa/ncaa-sports-news-schedule-changes-coronavirus-updates-all-sports

QuoteNCAA directs each division to determine if it can safely hold fall championships

The NCAA Board of Governors ruled Wednesday that each division will be directed to determine its ability to conduct fall championships (https://www.ncaa.com/news/ncaa/article/2020-08-05/ncaa-board-governors-directs-each-division-safeguard-student-athlete-well-being). Each division must make a decision regarding fall championships by Aug. 21.

The NCAA outlined and clarified several guidelines it would enforce and expect for any return-to-sport scenario to protect the student-athletes' interests. You can read the full release here (https://www.ncaa.com/news/ncaa/article/2020-08-05/ncaa-board-governors-directs-each-division-safeguard-student-athlete-well-being).

● NCAA championships may use reduced bracketing, a reduced number of competitors, predetermined sites and, where appropriate, single sites to limit exposure to COVID-19.
● If 50% or more of eligible teams in a particular sport in a division cancel their fall season, there will be no fall NCAA championship in that sport in that division.
● If fall sports championships are postponed in any division, a decision to conduct that championship at a later date will be based upon the scientific data available at that time regarding COVID-19, along with other considerations.
● All student-athletes must be allowed to opt out of participation due to concerns about contracting COVID-19. If a college athlete chooses to opt out, that individual's athletics scholarship commitment must be honored by the college or university.

"First and foremost, we need to make sure we provide a safe environment for college athletes to compete for an opportunity to play in NCAA championships," NCAA President Mark Emmert said in an official statement. "A decision based on the realities in each division will provide clarity for conferences and campuses as they determine how to safely begin the academic year and the return to sports."

It was already obvious from a realistic and practical standpoint, but it's now "official" that, on the basis of the second bullet item, there can be no Division III Fall Championships.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Flying Weasel on August 05, 2020, 02:26:07 PM
Here's the full list of requirements from the NCAA Board of Governors.

https://www.ncaa.com/news/ncaa/article/2020-08-05/ncaa-board-governors-announces-specific-requirements-conduct-fall-sports

Quote● All fall sports activity (preseason, regular season and postseason) must follow the recently released return-to-sport guidelines from the NCAA Sport Science Institute for all athletic activity. As the guidelines change based on the ever-changing pandemic, schools must follow any future modifications.

● The NCAA will establish a phone number and email to allow college athletes, parents or others to report alleged failures. The Association will notify school and conference administrators, who will be expected to take immediate action.

● All member schools must adhere to federal, state and local guidelines related to COVID-19. Further, the conduct of NCAA championships must be in line with federal, state and local guidelines.

● All student-athletes must be allowed to opt out of participation due to concerns about contracting COVID-19. If a college athlete chooses to opt out, that individual's athletics scholarship commitment must be honored by the college or university.

● Each division must determine no later than Aug. 14 the eligibility accommodations that must be made for student-athletes who opt out of participating this fall or for those whose seasons are canceled or cut short due to COVID-19. College athletes and their families must know what their eligibility status will be before beginning the fall season.

● Member schools may not require student-athletes to waive their legal rights regarding COVID-19 as a condition of athletics participation.

● Member schools, in conjunction with existing insurance standards, must cover COVID-19 related medical expenses for student-athletes to prevent out-of-pocket expenses for college athletes and their families.

● Any NCAA fall championship or other postseason contests must be conducted within enhanced safety protocols for student-athletes and essential athletics personnel. These safety enhancements will include regular testing, separation of college athletes and essential personnel from all other nonessential personnel, and physical distancing and masking policies during all aspects of noncompetition.

● NCAA championships may use reduced bracketing, a reduced number of competitors, predetermined sites and, where appropriate, single sites to limit exposure to COVID-19.

● If 50% or more of eligible teams in a particular sport in a division cancel their fall season, there will be no fall NCAA championship in that sport in that division.

● If fall sports championships are postponed in any division, a decision to conduct that championship at a later date will be based upon the scientific data available at that time regarding COVID-19, along with other considerations.

Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 05, 2020, 02:30:16 PM
It is official from DIII ... fall have been canceled. Notice ... canceled. No effort I have been told will really be made for the spring.

Schools may make the effort to have a few games for seniors or something, but no full championships from the NCAA. Thus, why would schools use up eligibility to have full seasons?

I have talked to a number of administrators in DIII and trying to pull off the spring even without Covid with all those sports just isn't feasible ... and a few mentioned that it wouldn't be fair to spring athletes (and even winter ones) who got screwed last academic year.

For me, selfishly, I have now lost four NCAA Division III sports I call for NCAA.com in the last five months. I will go more than a year between opportunities. I feel horrible for the coaches and student-athletes ...
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Flying Weasel on August 05, 2020, 02:41:30 PM
D-Mac beat me to it, but the Division III Presidents Council cancels fall championships as they had to do because of the 50% participation threshold set by the NCAA Board of Governor's, as noted in my previous posts.  Of course, with all but one conference cancelling fall competition and only a smattering of others school leaving the door open to some fall contests, there wasn't going to be a fall championship regardless.  But now it is official. 

https://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/division-iii-presidents-council-cancels-fall-championships

QuoteDivision III Presidents Council cancels fall championships
Moving sports to spring proved unworkable
August 5, 2020 1:58pm | Jeremy Villanueva

NCAA Division III championships in fall sports for 2020-21 are canceled. With the health and safety of the division's student-athletes, coaches, athletics administrators and communities as its priority, the Division III Presidents Council made the decision Wednesday to cancel the championships due to the COVID-19 pandemic and related administrative and financial challenges.

The Board of Governors directed each division to make a decision on its fall sport championships. It also agreed to require all members institutions to apply the resocialization principles to fall sports and set a 50% sponsorship threshold for a fall sport championship to be conducted.

"Looking at the health and safety challenges we face this fall during this unprecedented time, we had to make this tough decision to cancel championships for fall sports this academic year in the best interest of our student-athlete and member institutions," said Tori Murden McClure, chair of the Presidents Council and president at Spalding. "Our Championships Committee reviewed the financial and logistical ramifications if Division III fall sports championships were conducted in the spring and found it was logistically untenable and financially prohibitive. Our Management Council reached the same conclusion. Moving forward, we will try to maximize the championships experience for our winter and spring sport student-athletes, who unfortunately were short-changed last academic year."

Also official, the fall championships will not be conducted in the spring.  Of course, that doesn't prohibit the schools and conferences from playing fall sports in the spring, but anything resembling a full regular season would seen out of the question for reasons already presented by others on this message board and the reasons D-III has ruled out conducting fall championships during thw spring.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 05, 2020, 03:38:50 PM
To be fair, the 50% threshold is nice ... but this was coming anyway. But yeah, it doesn't help that basically just one conference planned to play any fall sports - as mentioned.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Gregory Sager on August 05, 2020, 03:51:16 PM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on August 05, 2020, 10:53:13 AM
Good to see D-Mac and PaulN keeping it real with the resource issue. EXTREMELY tricky for even D1 schools to spread out the support staff, let along locker rooms and fields. A lot of east coast schools have limited real estate and struggle in normal times to find practice and game day fields.

I want to highlight the training staff issue. At the high school level, this makes stacking Fall and Spring sports a complete non-starter. I know there's a range of AD budgets across D3, but this isn't a "nice to have," there are liability issues at play here... You have to have training staff at every game and every practice.

FTFY
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: stlawus on August 05, 2020, 03:59:10 PM
People still trying to hold onto delusions that schools will play any sort of spring competition for fall sports remind me of that scene from Bad Santa where Billy Bob Thornton repeatedly tries to get Bernie Mac to settle for anything less than half of their haul.  It is not going to happen.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 05, 2020, 04:32:53 PM
Quote from: stlawus on August 05, 2020, 03:59:10 PM
People still trying to hold onto delusions that schools will play any sort of spring competition for fall sports remind me of that scene from Bad Santa where Bill Bob Thornton repeatedly tries to get Bernie Mac to settle for anything less than half of their haul.  It is not going to happen.

Sadly, I know of conferences trying to make it happen especially in football ... I just don't think people are (a) working in reality or being honest to themselves and (b) being honest with the students.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on August 05, 2020, 05:57:42 PM
Quote from: stlawus on August 05, 2020, 03:59:10 PM
People still trying to hold onto delusions that schools will play any sort of spring competition for fall sports remind me of that scene from Bad Santa where Bill Bob Thornton repeatedly tries to get Bernie Mac to settle for anything less than half of their haul.  It is not going to happen.

Color me guilty if the mention of a possibility of Spring competition in the event of a very unlikely scenario (an "all clear")  counts as delusional.  I think I was clear that play in the Spring seemed very unlikely.  That said, I wasn't holding a pending NCAA announcement, and I was probably influenced by suggestions here, including formally on the site, that there was significant momentum towards moving towards a Spring season as the prospects for a Fall season continued to evaporate....as well as the talk about how dire not playing would be for many schools and that at least some would move heaven and earth to salvage some kind of real season.  And of course then there were the conferences and schools themselves promising a careful look at the feasibility of the Spring, and while I was cynical about that I didn't want to think they were being totally disingenuous.  To be fair, a month ago I stated that these statements about Spring seemed "mostly an appeasement and a 'let 'em down easy' kind of strategy."  I will readily concede that I appear to have whiffed on the "resource" issue, in part due to what I just described, but also because schools and conferences avoided the inevitable about the Fall for so long and why would they publish consideration of the Spring if that was going to be a non-starter from the jump.  I admit that after weeks of conferences, schools (and posters here) holding out for the Fall I didn't see everything turning on a dime right now in terms of a Spring possibility proffered in just the past few weeks.  FWIW, I gave my opinion that the "writing was on the wall" for the Fall almost five weeks ago, and there was pushback at that time and for at least two to three weeks thereafter. 

At any rate, it appears we have finally reached consensus that the towel has been thrown in the middle of the ring. 

Stay safe everyone.  Now I can turn my focus more exclusively to which electric moped scooter I'm going to get.  Oh, and.....Go Lords!
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on August 05, 2020, 05:58:48 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on August 05, 2020, 03:51:16 PM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on August 05, 2020, 10:53:13 AM
Good to see D-Mac and PaulN keeping it real with the resource issue. EXTREMELY tricky for even D1 schools to spread out the support staff, let along locker rooms and fields. A lot of east coast schools have limited real estate and struggle in normal times to find practice and game day fields.

I want to highlight the training staff issue. At the high school level, this makes stacking Fall and Spring sports a complete non-starter. I know there's a range of AD budgets across D3, but this isn't a "nice to have," there are liability issues at play here... You have to have training staff at every game and every practice.

FTFY

FWIW....wow.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: d4_Pace on August 05, 2020, 06:14:40 PM
So way too early 2021 top 5...
1 Amherst
2 Tufts
3 Calvin
4 Messiah
5 someone else
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on August 05, 2020, 06:19:22 PM
Quote from: d4_Pace on August 05, 2020, 06:14:40 PM
So way too early 2021 top 5...
1 Amherst
2 Tufts
3 Calvin
4 Messiah
5 someone else

LOL.  That's great.  Wasn't that your 2019 "too early" prediction?
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 05, 2020, 06:56:21 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on August 05, 2020, 03:51:16 PM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on August 05, 2020, 10:53:13 AM
Good to see D-Mac and PaulN keeping it real with the resource issue. EXTREMELY tricky for even D1 schools to spread out the support staff, let along locker rooms and fields. A lot of east coast schools have limited real estate and struggle in normal times to find practice and game day fields.

I want to highlight the training staff issue. At the high school level, this makes stacking Fall and Spring sports a complete non-starter. I know there's a range of AD budgets across D3, but this isn't a "nice to have," there are liability issues at play here... You have to have training staff at every game and every practice.

FTFY

And some sports I think require multiple - like football - but don't quote me on that. I just have it in my memory bank as something I was told once.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: stlawus on August 05, 2020, 08:52:35 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 05, 2020, 04:32:53 PM
Quote from: stlawus on August 05, 2020, 03:59:10 PM
People still trying to hold onto delusions that schools will play any sort of spring competition for fall sports remind me of that scene from Bad Santa where Bill Bob Thornton repeatedly tries to get Bernie Mac to settle for anything less than half of their haul.  It is not going to happen.

Sadly, I know of conferences trying to make it happen especially in football ... I just don't think people are (a) working in reality or being honest to themselves and (b) being honest with the students.

At this point is selfishness.   A month ago I was not opposed at an attempt to have some sort of fall competition if there were agreed upon universal guidelines but at this point there really is not an argument to have fall sports at any point this year.  There are enough issues and constraints to even begin the academic year in the fall, and adding a whole other layer of stress to move fall sports to spring is not something at the top priority list for schools.     I'm not normally a cynic but it appears that some people care more about alma mater glory and entertainment than the health and safety of the athletes. 
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 05, 2020, 09:11:28 PM
Quote from: stlawus on August 05, 2020, 08:52:35 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 05, 2020, 04:32:53 PM
Quote from: stlawus on August 05, 2020, 03:59:10 PM
People still trying to hold onto delusions that schools will play any sort of spring competition for fall sports remind me of that scene from Bad Santa where Bill Bob Thornton repeatedly tries to get Bernie Mac to settle for anything less than half of their haul.  It is not going to happen.

Sadly, I know of conferences trying to make it happen especially in football ... I just don't think people are (a) working in reality or being honest to themselves and (b) being honest with the students.

At this point is selfishness.   A month ago I was not opposed at an attempt to have some sort of fall competition if there were agreed upon universal guidelines but at this point there really is not an argument to have fall sports at any point this year.  There are enough issues and constraints to even begin the academic year in the fall, and adding a whole other layer of stress to move fall sports to spring is not something at the top priority list for schools.     I'm not normally a cynic but it appears that some people care more about alma mater glory and entertainment than the health and safety of the athletes.

...or care more about making sure they get tuition money.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Falconer on August 06, 2020, 06:33:40 PM
I want to pick up on the "need for tuition money" theme that's often found in this thread—for good reasons. Of course the biggest potential impact is that some D3 schools might actually fold, if their numbers this fall are just too low, after many years of being on shoestring budgets. Everyone knows this; just wanted to ensure that no one thinks I'm ignoring it.

However, a secondary but very important impact could be much more widespread, namely, that lots of schools might be forced to lay off or outright release ("fire" isn't really the right word in this context, since we aren't talking about people who defy institutional policies) many faculty members who won't be able ever to return to those schools, or at least who probably won't be back in the near term. I stress faculty here, rather than other employees, b/c colleges typically hire faculty differently than most other employee categories, including mid-level administrators. Faculty are usually hired after national searches, in which most or all viable candidates have earned doctorates that resulted from 5-7 years of post-baccalaureate training, during which time they were being paid living wages. The opportunity cost for those people is very, very large—they gave up many years of good earnings to become qualified for the jobs they most wanted. You can't just wave your hands and create those people, and their loss is not the institution's gain. IMO, this is bigger hit to those schools than ending a few athletic programs or other areas that might be cut without hitting the core academic mission of the school.

And, of course, this is happening already across the country, and probably will continue to happen for a few years to come, even if a vaccine is soon widely available. A single terrible year can have a very big footprint, far beyond that year. The people you have to let go will be in many cases really hard to replace. People who give that many years in pursuit of faculty jobs deserve job security (if earned), more than many other employees who didn't have to make comparable economic sacrifices to work at a college. If that can't be counted on, the pipeline may start to go dry.

So, yes, at many schools the need to retain as much tuition as possible is critical to their academic mission. They might actually survive the pandemic and other economic threats, but if they do so with substantially reduced quality than they will still be on life support. It's not a trivial problem. Those dollars really do matter. Only institutions with very deep pockets (Lafayette, for example, which is saying that they might lose $30M because of the pandemic) can afford to tough it out. And, most D3 schools are not in that category, even if many NESCACs probably are.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Gregory Sager on August 07, 2020, 11:28:14 AM
Excellent post, Falconer.

The pipeline is already not as prolific as it used to be, as two generations of colleges and universities foregoing the hiring of tenure-track instructors in many fields in favor of usings TAs and "gypsies" (non-tenure-track adjunct instructors working on annual contracts) has made the pursuit of college professorship much less enticing to young people. In particular, this is acutely felt in the STEM disciplines, whose areas of expertise often (but not always) translate better to in-demand careers outside of academia.

This was always counteracted somewhat by the bull market of higher education; the U.S. is flush with four-year institutions of higher learning of all sizes, and in our culture it has long been expected of most young people that they attend college (an expectation that does not necessarily redound to our society's advantage, but that's a subject for another day). But that bull market, as we all know, is drawing to an end. Plus, the periodic (and seemingly inevitable) hiring freezes that accompany economic or demographic downturns make it worse, because, as you said, the opportunity cost is so high for those who seek a career in college teaching. It's easy to be dissuaded from enrolling in an academically-oriented masters program with an eye on an eventual professorship if you're a college junior or senior reading an article about 300 people applying for a single tenure-track teaching job on some college campus. Dissuade enough of them, and eventually you'll get only five people applying for such a job. The law of supply and demand is inexorable.

A parallel problem is that more and more liberal arts colleges, in an effort to stay economically viable, are making programmatic decisions about faculty that are based upon student demand. They're counting heads among undergrads on a major-by-major basis and deeming that certain fields regarded as esoteric in the public mind (i.e., many of the humanities and social sciences disciplines) that are not drawing students to major in them are therefore expendable in an era in which institutions of higher learning have less pie to carve in their annual budget pie charts. Meanwhile, those budgetary resources are shifted towards popular majors with a more obvious and direct classroom-to-career connection (business administration, nursing, education, engineering, etc.). What has gone on at Illinois Wesleyan over the past month or two -- it's drawn a lot of media attention in the Prairie State, including the Chicago Tribune, that I'm sure IWU would've rather not had -- is a perfect example of this sort of institutional shift of faculty resources.

As it is doing in so many other ways, I'm sure that the pandemic will act as an accelerant to this process. As more and more liberal arts colleges edge towards the brink, or at least towards the sort of long-term damage of which you spoke, this type of human-resources shift within faculties will start to look less like trendy bean-counting and more and more like triage.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: WUPHF on August 07, 2020, 11:56:03 AM
I'll be honest, I have no concerns whatsoever that the United States will run low on faculty anytime soon.

The supply exceeds demand in every field, including business and STEM fields.

I do think that the federal government will offer financial support to most colleges who can hold out long enough, but time will tell.  It is going to be a rough ride for everyone.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Gregory Sager on August 07, 2020, 01:01:45 PM
Quote from: WUPHF on August 07, 2020, 11:56:03 AM
I'll be honest, I have no concerns whatsoever that the United States will run low on faculty anytime soon.

The supply exceeds demand in every field, including business and STEM fields.

Oh, I certainly agree. But will the quality be the same if only a quarter, or a third, as many people are applying for each job opening?

Quote from: WUPHF on August 07, 2020, 11:56:03 AMI do think that the federal government will offer financial support to most colleges who can hold out long enough, but time will tell.  It is going to be a rough ride for everyone.

I wish I shared your optimism.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dubuquer on August 07, 2020, 04:32:37 PM
My wife is a chair of a science department at a small liberal arts college and I work as director of a division of academic affairs at a mid-size D3 public university.  Both are institutions are VERY dependent on tuition dollars.  Pre-Covid it was well known that the next 10 years were going to be rough in higher education as demographically there are just a lot fewer students coming up the pipeline, especially in certain parts of the country like the upper Midwest, but all the challenges that higher ed was going to face in that time have been compressed into 6 months and a lot of institutions are hanging on for dear life right now.  I think you can talk to any of the older faculty who have served on hiring committees and they will tell you that demand for faculty positions 10-20 years ago was way higher and, as Greg stated, the quality of current applicants is nowhere near what it once was.  I've heard this repeatedly.  Instead of 100+ applicants, most of whom had teaching experience, now you might see 20, most of whom are post-docs or even grad students who haven't yet finished up their dissertations.  You're seeing a lot more failed searched because the applicant pool simply isn't good enough and the few good applicants out there are snatched up by institutions with the money to do so.  The shift Greg described away from liberal arts and the sorts of broad-based educations is not just hurting students (IMO) but it's demoralizing faculty.  Is there administrative bloat at colleges and universities?  Heck yes, but a lot of places have really trimmed that fat already and the only thing left to go are faculty lines.  Once that happens institutions enter the downward spiral.  Do students (and their parents) want to invest in 4+ years at an institution that is struggling?  Some certainly don't, which only furthers the process.  I will fully admit that there are too many universities (does Wisconsin really need 13 public 4 year universities when Iowa only has 3?) and some probably should go by the wayside.  The problem is that all colleges offer so much to their students and are woven into the fabric of the communities they inhabit.  Their decline hurts everyone in those communities.  All I can say is that, barring some massive aid package from the feds, a lot of colleges are going to emerge from this pandemic a lot weaker, if they emerge at all.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: WUPHF on August 07, 2020, 05:14:03 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on August 07, 2020, 01:01:45 PM
Quote from: WUPHF on August 07, 2020, 11:56:03 AMI do think that the federal government will offer financial support to most colleges who can hold out long enough, but time will tell.  It is going to be a rough ride for everyone.

I wish I shared your optimism.

I am not sure if that is optimism or not.

I think the money will come, but not before many colleges and universities close (my reference to those who hold on).

I wasted a day looking at public tax records at Central Division institutions and found at least one college in the Midwest that is surely only open because they sold multiple properties over the last few years.  There are others that look way worse than MacMurray and, in my novice opinion, need the revenue from the residence and dining halls and other auxiliary operations to have a chance at opening in the Spring 2021.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Gregory Sager on August 10, 2020, 02:37:36 PM
Quote from: Dubuquer on August 07, 2020, 04:32:37 PMI will fully admit that there are too many universities (does Wisconsin really need 13 public 4 year universities when Iowa only has 3?)

I'm sure that I'll catch hell from the WIAC people for saying this, but I've never really understood why the University of Wisconsin has two full-sized, residential branch campuses that are only 27 miles apart (UWEC and UW-Stout), and a third that is only another 40 miles down the road from UW-Stout (UWRF).

And it's not as though they're in a heavily-populated part of the state, a la the southeastern corner of Wisconsin, Madison, the Fox Cities, or Green Bay.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Caz Bombers on August 10, 2020, 04:00:44 PM
we have so many in the SUNY system too, and I would hate to lose any of them down to the community college level, but I just don't know anymore what may happen.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Pat Coleman on August 10, 2020, 04:03:44 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on August 10, 2020, 02:37:36 PM
Quote from: Dubuquer on August 07, 2020, 04:32:37 PMI will fully admit that there are too many universities (does Wisconsin really need 13 public 4 year universities when Iowa only has 3?)

I'm sure that I'll catch hell from the WIAC people for saying this, but I've never really understood why the University of Wisconsin has two full-sized, residential branch campuses that are only 27 miles apart (UWEC and UW-Stout), and a third that is only another 40 miles down the road from UW-Stout (UWRF).

And it's not as though they're in a heavily-populated part of the state, a la the southeastern corner of Wisconsin, Madison, the Fox Cities, or Green Bay.

It's a good opportunity for them to pull students in from Minnesota, and my understanding is that those campuses do that quite well. They definitely have the enrollment overall to support three schools in this manner -- it's not as if they are three 1,800-student campuses.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Gregory Sager on August 10, 2020, 04:41:39 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on August 10, 2020, 04:03:44 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on August 10, 2020, 02:37:36 PM
Quote from: Dubuquer on August 07, 2020, 04:32:37 PMI will fully admit that there are too many universities (does Wisconsin really need 13 public 4 year universities when Iowa only has 3?)

I'm sure that I'll catch hell from the WIAC people for saying this, but I've never really understood why the University of Wisconsin has two full-sized, residential branch campuses that are only 27 miles apart (UWEC and UW-Stout), and a third that is only another 40 miles down the road from UW-Stout (UWRF).

And it's not as though they're in a heavily-populated part of the state, a la the southeastern corner of Wisconsin, Madison, the Fox Cities, or Green Bay.

It's a good opportunity for them to pull students in from Minnesota, and my understanding is that those campuses do that quite well. They definitely have the enrollment overall to support three schools in this manner -- it's not as if they are three 1,800-student campuses.

That's true for now ... but who knows how they'll be doing once the student demographic ebb troughs?

Also, if they're drawing large numbers of Minnesotans, that means that they're vulnerable to the vicissitudes of the interstate tuition compacts among the upper midwestern states. Who knows if Minnesota and Wisconsin will continue tuition reciprocity under severe downturn conditions, especially if there appears to be a significant imbalance in terms of students migrating from one state to the other?

(After I had posted my previous post it occurred to me that I was probably safe from the wrath of the WIACers, since this is a soccer board and the WIAC is down to only two men's soccer programs now. But then I took a karma hit and realized that I probably wasn't as safe as I thought I was.  :D)
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Pat Coleman on August 10, 2020, 08:09:01 PM
Vulnerable to the vicissitudes ... nice alliteration.

I had high school classmates attend WIAC schools because of those tuition exchange deals -- and I am 47 years old. They've been fairly stable.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 10, 2020, 10:55:44 PM
While it is primarily a basketball show, we do have an all encompassing approach and mindset on Hoopsville. The latest podcast which we released late Monday afternoon features a conversation with Jason Fein. He is Athletics Director at Bates College and he is on the DIII Management Council (taking over as chair in January). He had a rather lengthy conversation about how things got to where they are and why the decision to pull the Fall Championships.

I tried to keep it as a generic conversation without going too far into the weeds. You may find it interesting.

It is the third segment of the show ... roughly the 40 minute mark, I think? You can listen to the podcast here: https://bit.ly/3kGZ962

(https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=710/cr=n/d=ev7hd/sv26ba99wwms5530.jpg)

You also have your options on most of the common podcast avenues found here (click on the images where necessary):
SoundCloud: www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville


 
   
(https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=300/mh=150/cr=n/d=40gkf/zp2t977dsfqmq2ng.jpg) (https://apple.co/2E9e0Bl)(https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=300/mh=150/cr=n/d=40gkf/7jdya7ckqexrfad3.jpg) (http://bit.ly/2rFfr7Z)(https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=300/mh=150/cr=n/d=40gzu/0qxioniqi7kizek9.jpg) (https://spoti.fi/2qoExnV)(https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=300/mh=150/cr=n/d=40gkg/qlios5f6juz7tij9.jpg) (https://www.iheart.com/podcast/256-hoopsville-30984615/)(https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=300/mh=150/cr=n/d=40gkf/otimp41swikeb9uf.jpg) (https://castbox.fm/app/castbox/player/id332395)(https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=300/mh=150/cr=n/d=40gkg/vpaw3ejt1tsc9r48.jpg) (https://radiopublic.com/hoopsville-6nkZN8)

We also have the podcast now on Tune-In (https://tunein.com/podcasts/Sports--Recreation-Podcasts/Hoopsville-p1153539/).
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dubuquer on August 11, 2020, 12:37:36 PM
American Rivers Conference finally caved and "postponed" most fall sports, including soccer, to the spring.  https://rollrivers.com/news/2020/8/11/american-rivers-conference-a-r-c-makes-announcement-regarding-fall-sports.aspx

I think we all know the likelihood of fall sports actually happening in the spring.

The ARC announcement firmly blames the NCAA's testing requirements for the decision.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Another Mom on August 12, 2020, 11:42:43 AM
Covid effects on recruiting: some schools have fewer spots than normal,  we are finding.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: southsidejet on August 13, 2020, 01:32:25 PM
OAC just announced specific play dates/times for a Spring 2021 schedule. 9 conference games, 1 final (or consolation game for 3-10), so 10 games total. Saves a year of eligibility and gets the seniors one more crack at a conference title.

https://oac.prestosports.com/MISC/COVID-19_2020/Fall_sports_springs_schedules
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dark Knight on August 13, 2020, 03:36:30 PM
For now, Calvin intends to play a little fall soccer. The MIAA presidents have agreed to play games mostly within the conference. However, the conference has announced that its fall sports schedule has been postponed, hopefully to be played later in the academic year.

Four of the eight MIAA schools are playing some fall sports anyway: Calvin, Adrian, Trine, and Olivet (Cross country, tennis, and golf only).

https://calvinknights.com/general/2019-20/releases/20200730l10ds5

Calvin has a revised fall soccer schedule up. Most games are listed as "postponed," but there are two games with Adrian that have a date and time and two with Trine listed as TBA.

https://calvinknights.com/sports/msoc/2020-21/schedule
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: d4_Pace on August 13, 2020, 05:16:51 PM
Well I guess the good news for Calvin is they can't lose in the final four this year
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Ejay on August 14, 2020, 09:59:05 AM
Quote from: southsidejet on August 13, 2020, 01:32:25 PM
OAC just announced specific play dates/times for a Spring 2021 schedule. 9 conference games, 1 final (or consolation game for 3-10), so 10 games total. Saves a year of eligibility and gets the seniors one more crack at a conference title.

https://oac.prestosports.com/MISC/COVID-19_2020/Fall_sports_springs_schedules

Fake news! D-mac said conferences planning to play fall sports in the spring weren't "working in reality".  :P
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: southsidejet on August 14, 2020, 12:13:13 PM
Quote from: EB2319 on August 14, 2020, 09:59:05 AM
Quote from: southsidejet on August 13, 2020, 01:32:25 PM
OAC just announced specific play dates/times for a Spring 2021 schedule. 9 conference games, 1 final (or consolation game for 3-10), so 10 games total. Saves a year of eligibility and gets the seniors one more crack at a conference title.

https://oac.prestosports.com/MISC/COVID-19_2020/Fall_sports_springs_schedules

Fake news! D-mac said conferences planning to play fall sports in the spring weren't "working in reality".  :P

:)
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Pat Coleman on August 15, 2020, 03:18:46 PM
Quote from: EB2319 on August 14, 2020, 09:59:05 AM
Quote from: southsidejet on August 13, 2020, 01:32:25 PM
OAC just announced specific play dates/times for a Spring 2021 schedule. 9 conference games, 1 final (or consolation game for 3-10), so 10 games total. Saves a year of eligibility and gets the seniors one more crack at a conference title.

https://oac.prestosports.com/MISC/COVID-19_2020/Fall_sports_springs_schedules

Fake news! D-mac said conferences planning to play fall sports in the spring weren't "working in reality".  :P

The OAC can announce these games, but we are a long way from seeing them happen. These schools haven't even had students on campus yet. It seems abundantly optimistic to announce something in mid-August.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Ejay on August 15, 2020, 06:20:09 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on August 15, 2020, 03:18:46 PM
Quote from: EB2319 on August 14, 2020, 09:59:05 AM
Quote from: southsidejet on August 13, 2020, 01:32:25 PM
OAC just announced specific play dates/times for a Spring 2021 schedule. 9 conference games, 1 final (or consolation game for 3-10), so 10 games total. Saves a year of eligibility and gets the seniors one more crack at a conference title.

https://oac.prestosports.com/MISC/COVID-19_2020/Fall_sports_springs_schedules

Fake news! D-mac said conferences planning to play fall sports in the spring weren't "working in reality".  :P

The OAC can announce these games, but we are a long way from seeing them happen. These schools haven't even had students on campus yet. It seems abundantly optimistic to announce something in mid-August.

I think you're missing the point.  It's been suggested there's no way fall sports could play in the spring because of a shortage of trainers, fields, athletes, etc, etc, etc.  Clearly, the OAC is saying they can make it happen. Of course, Covid could throw a wrench into that, but we're not talking about Covid.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Pat Coleman on August 15, 2020, 06:41:07 PM
Quote from: EB2319 on August 15, 2020, 06:20:09 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on August 15, 2020, 03:18:46 PM
Quote from: EB2319 on August 14, 2020, 09:59:05 AM
Quote from: southsidejet on August 13, 2020, 01:32:25 PM
OAC just announced specific play dates/times for a Spring 2021 schedule. 9 conference games, 1 final (or consolation game for 3-10), so 10 games total. Saves a year of eligibility and gets the seniors one more crack at a conference title.

https://oac.prestosports.com/MISC/COVID-19_2020/Fall_sports_springs_schedules

Fake news! D-mac said conferences planning to play fall sports in the spring weren't "working in reality".  :P

The OAC can announce these games, but we are a long way from seeing them happen. These schools haven't even had students on campus yet. It seems abundantly optimistic to announce something in mid-August.

I think you're missing the point.  It's been suggested there's no way fall sports could play in the spring because of a shortage of trainers, fields, athletes, etc, etc, etc.  Clearly, the OAC is saying they can make it happen. Of course, Covid could throw a wrench into that, but we're not talking about Covid.

I'm not missing the point. (By the way, I agree with Dave's point.)
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Pat Coleman on August 16, 2020, 12:47:15 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 03, 2020, 05:32:30 PM
I think a number of fall teams may try and cobble something nice this spring to help the seniors. Maybe a home-and-home with someone near by, but any resemblance of any reasonable schedule or competition ... let alone NCAA championships ... isn't going to happen.

I can say this much: Fall Championships will be canceled this week. Either the NCAA BOG is going to do it or the Division will do it. And "canceled" not "postponed." Coaches can make all the effort they want, but they need to be realistic and to do so would require them to see the bigger picture outside of their sport.

I still agree with this, and I've said the same thing over on the D3football.com side of the house. The thought of two home games in football -- doable, for sure. The thought of a national championship for a fall sport in the spring was never going to be realistic at the D-III level.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: midwest on August 18, 2020, 02:47:58 PM
My just-graduated D3 player was talking about the younger guys training, lifting etc. without any fall competitions. He was relieved that he was no longer in school, as he said the prospect of training without competition seemed absurd. He said he loved his team and being together with the guys, but that he trained to compete and to win. If there was no match to look forward to, he didn't really see much point in spending several hours a day training.

Which illustrates why I, his parent, was a competent but not recruited athlete, since in this situation, I would have been happy to go out and just practice with my friends. He, in contrast, has always been driven to push himself in order to perform. Different mind sets.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Stryker on August 22, 2020, 01:26:15 PM
My daughter  has been back at her school since August 10 and already the head coach is in quarantine with her family for possible exposure outside of the University and the Assistant Coach has been diagnosed with Covid. One player came down 2 days ago with fever and other symptoms; Covid test came back negative and they are hoping that it is not a false negative. That player is quarantining until a second test result returns. All of this with limited interaction between the team. Can't imagine how disruptive the season would have been if they had gone ahead with the season.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PlaySimple on August 26, 2020, 01:44:48 PM
This is old news from August 20 and I am not sure that it has been verified. Basically the rumor is that there will be a NCAA tournament in the spring for D1 with 32 teams each. To the surprise of no one, there will not be a tournament in the spring for D2 or D3.

Most that I know that play D3, particularly the seniors that will be moving on and definitely not playing in the fall of 2021, will just be content to play some games in the spring. Even if that is only 5 or 10 games. Most just want to play something and couldn't care less about there being an NCAA championship. The OAC seems to have a good plan for the spring of league games only with a championship game at the end. I hope it works out for the league but I have my doubts.

https://www.soccerwire.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/ncaa-rumor.png
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 26, 2020, 03:11:46 PM
As discussed before, DIII canceled their championships and that word was used on purpose. And the idea of any substantial - or even half - season in the spring is really not realistic. More and more schools and conferences are coming to that realization, finally (from what I am being told in many, many conversations I have across the country).

I feel for the seniors, I really do. Though, that started back in March when winter sports championships were pulled with some athletes just about to start their final competitions and spring championships and seasons canceled just as those seasons were ramping up.

BTW - DI thoughts on getting spring championships is starting to hit the road blocks many of us already knew existed. What people forget is how many sites and people are involved in these things. I was given a number of about 320 sites for DI, DII, DIII fall championships in a normal year. Can you imagine trying to pull that off during spring championships even if only DI is added in? Not to mention, some of the actual sites that were available originally may no longer be an option in the spring.

And we haven't discussed the point that we don't know the landscape of the coronavirus next month let alone next spring.

Things have got to be taken one day, one week at a time.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PlaySimple on September 01, 2020, 12:57:22 PM
I posted the following on another forum. It is about a D2 school but it is worth posting here.

The New York Institute of Technology has announced that it is suspending athletics for at least two years. The press release specifically states "Due to the COVID-19 pandemic and the costs associated with it, New York Institute of Technology will suspend all of its NCAA Division II athletics programs for at least two years." It is also stated "all athletic scholarships will be honored for New York Tech students so that they can continue with their academic programs and graduate on schedule. Currently, close to 250 student-athletes are enrolled at New York Tech."

There is more here:

https://nyitbears.com/news/2020/8/20/general-new-york-tech-to-suspend-its-ncaa-programs.aspx

I certainly hope that this is not a developing trend but many schools are going to take a long and hard look at the role of athletics and how it relates the educational experience. I have previously stated that participation in athletics or, at the very least, club sports or intramurals, is important to the complete development of an individual. That said, some schools may very well decide that athletics are best served in a club atmosphere at the school or elsewhere. Perhaps akin to what is primarily done in Europe. I am not sure that this will be the case in the near immediate future but it is entirely conceivable that many schools and universities will head that way in the future.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: blue_jays on September 01, 2020, 01:36:17 PM
Quote from: PlaySimple on September 01, 2020, 12:57:22 PM
I posted the following on another forum. It is about a D2 school but it is worth posting here.

The New York Institute of Technology has announced that it is suspending athletics for at least two years. The press release specifically states "Due to the COVID-19 pandemic and the costs associated with it, New York Institute of Technology will suspend all of its NCAA Division II athletics programs for at least two years." It is also stated "all athletic scholarships will be honored for New York Tech students so that they can continue with their academic programs and graduate on schedule. Currently, close to 250 student-athletes are enrolled at New York Tech."

There is more here:

https://nyitbears.com/news/2020/8/20/general-new-york-tech-to-suspend-its-ncaa-programs.aspx

I certainly hope that this is not a developing trend but many schools are going to take a long and hard look at the role of athletics and how it relates the educational experience. I have previously stated that participation in athletics or, at the very least, club sports or intramurals, is important to the complete development of an individual. That said, some schools may very well decide that athletics are best served in a club atmosphere at the school or elsewhere. Perhaps akin to what is primarily done in Europe. I am not sure that this will be the case in the near immediate future but it is entirely conceivable that many schools and universities will head that way in the future.

Doubt it becomes much of a trend, smaller schools can be very dependent on athletics to provide steady enrollment every year. Tuition, room, and board is how these schools will survive, they can't afford to get rid of a significant portion of their student body. In D1, I guarantee there will be more cuts to non-revenue sports, which could create Title IX complications. Look for these smaller D1 schools to drop down to D2 or D3 status for cost savings in the next few years.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on September 01, 2020, 06:23:36 PM
I don't think the NYIT thing will become a thing. As stated already, most schools in DIII need athletics to keep enrollment up. If we see suspensions of athletics, it will be actual cancelations because the entire school is shutting down. That will happen more and more as the next 6-12 months unfolds.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PlaySimple on September 11, 2020, 09:13:29 AM
Quote from: College Soccer Observer on July 31, 2020, 12:31:43 PM
100% disagree with the last sentence.  Many will take a semester off so that they can return and play next fall.  Underclassmen will do the same thing.  Most of my son's teammates are planning on taking off a semester at some point, and 75% of the seniors will do so in order to compete next fall.

I am revisiting this because I was thinking about the current situations of many athletes that I personally know.

In a Sports Illustrated article, Barry Alvarez, the AD at Wisconsin, hit the nail on the head. Granted, the article is from April but it is timely.

"What we tried to do was encourage our seniors to go ahead and, if you're going to graduate, graduate and move on with your life," athletic director Barry Alvarez said Wednesday on his monthly radio show on WIBA-AM. "We appreciate everything that you've done. But move forward. The future is in question, and we can't promise you anything."

While this applies to a D1 school, and in D1 soccer has become a spring sport this year, it is sage advice. Wisconsin will not be allowing spring athletes to return in 2021 and neither will the Ivies. I expect a lot of other universities to do likewise. The exception to this that I see will be those athletes that graduate with eligibility remaining and start graduate school in a program that might afford them the ability to also participate in athletics.

Link to SI article: https://www.si.com/college/2020/04/09/wisconsin-not-allow-spring-student-athletes-return
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: WUPHF on September 11, 2020, 09:35:59 AM
I agree with Barry Alvarez as far as his advice, but I disagree with a policy that prohibits students from returning.  In my mind, students should be able to choose what works best for them.

I have to think that part of the motivation is to keep students from taking a gap semester or gap year.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PlaySimple on September 11, 2020, 02:00:33 PM
Quote from: WUPHF on September 11, 2020, 09:35:59 AM
I agree with Barry Alvarez as far as his advice, but I disagree with a policy that prohibits students from returning.  In my mind, students should be able to choose what works best for them.

I have to think that part of the motivation is to keep students from taking a gap semester or gap year.

I'm pretty sure that what Alvarez meant was that students would not be able to return as athletes. If a student has course work to finish up then I'm sure that they would not be prohibited from returning to a university. If a student-athlete has played four seasons of a sport, then I can't disagree with stance of not allowing them to return as athletes.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Another Mom on September 11, 2020, 06:47:00 PM
Didn't Justin Serpone just say (somewhere  -- NESJ?-- can't remember) that every one of his seniors were deferring and coming back next year?
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: WUPHF on September 13, 2020, 08:47:55 PM
Quote from: PlaySimple on September 11, 2020, 02:00:33 PM
Quote from: WUPHF on September 11, 2020, 09:35:59 AM
I agree with Barry Alvarez as far as his advice, but I disagree with a policy that prohibits students from returning.  In my mind, students should be able to choose what works best for them.

I have to think that part of the motivation is to keep students from taking a gap semester or gap year.

I'm pretty sure that what Alvarez meant was that students would not be able to return as athletes. If a student has course work to finish up then I'm sure that they would not be prohibited from returning to a university. If a student-athlete has played four seasons of a sport, then I can't disagree with stance of not allowing them to return as athletes.

I mean, sure, I might agree with prohibiting students from returning after four seasons of varsity athletics, but as far as I can tell, he is telling seniors to come back for the Fall and Spring and graduate in May, even if a Spring season does not happen.  I am sure there would be exceptions.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: gfal5 on September 18, 2020, 11:14:42 AM
Does anyone know the rules surrounding college teams playing in a U23 league together?
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Ejay on September 18, 2020, 04:19:23 PM
I know coaches who are entering their teams in U23 leagues, but they aren't practicing at the school and aren't coached by the coach.  So technically they're an independent club team and as such the NCAA has no jurisdiction over them.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: gfal5 on September 19, 2020, 12:49:08 PM
Thanks!
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Golden_Fan on September 20, 2020, 07:00:56 PM
Well brockport is done for a bit

https://13wham.com/news/local/suny-brockport-suspends-mens-soccer-program (https://13wham.com/news/local/suny-brockport-suspends-mens-soccer-program)
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Falconer on September 25, 2020, 11:52:51 AM
NPR recently ran this interesting report on higher education and the virus: https://www.npr.org/programs/fresh-air/2020/09/16/913559377/fresh-air-for-sept-16-2020-coronavirus-on-college-campus?showDate=2020-09-16

A lot of the schools that tried fully to open have crashed and burned--that's well known. According to this report, smaller colleges might have a better chance to succeed. Nevertheless, the comments about the town-gown dynamic at some of those small-town schools (none mentioned by name) around 17:45 are particularly interesting and do seem consistent with what's gone down at some places in PA.

Some schools have been successful so far, including Messiah. They have a weekly count publicly visible here: https://www.messiah.edu/homepage/4331/messiah_university_covid-19_dashboard. Right now that number seems unusually low for a school in the 2500 range for undergraduate enrollment. Apart from what must be a high degree of self-discipline among students and employees, I wonder if the non-party-school reputation might have a positive role here, given the fact that many other schools have had to respond to off-campus parties and other gatherings that spread the virus.

What's happening in other parts of the country?
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: jknezek on September 25, 2020, 12:29:00 PM
W&L's dashboard is here: https://my.wlu.edu/covid-19-resources  It seems pretty reasonable so far.

Certainly better than our local h.s. which has had approximately half the kids go out for positive results or quarantine at least once since a mid August opening. On the upside, having half the kids out is the only way they are staying open 5 days a week, since about 25% of the teachers are out and there is no one willing to sub. My wife is a spec ed assistant and they shut down the spec ed kids the other day for a pair of positives. That freed up the department teachers and aides to sub throughout the rest of the school. So far, spec ed aids, assistant coaches, bus drivers, admin assistants, and principals and vice principals have all been drafting into "teaching" classes. Suffice to say, not much teaching is happening in those classrooms...
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Ommadawn on September 25, 2020, 01:19:37 PM
It's interesting to see the variability in the dashboard formats across institutions.  Falconer's assertion about the potential for small colleges and universities to succeed seems to be borne out at a number of institutions, including Clark (https://www.clarku.edu/healthy-clark-dashboard/) and Western New England (https://www1.wne.edu/coronavirus/dashboard/index.cfm).
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on September 25, 2020, 01:40:31 PM
Colby's efforts to control COVID was featured on September 22 during the PBS News Hour:  https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/how-maines-colby-college-is-striving-to-keep-covid-19-under-control.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Stryker on September 25, 2020, 03:17:29 PM
Guess RIT may be an exception then.  RIT's dashboard is here.     https://www.rit.edu/ready/dashboard
10 student cases and 2 staff cases since opening on August 19. Great statistics for a student population of approximately 19,000 students, about 16,000 undergraduate and 3000 graduate.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Falconer on September 25, 2020, 03:43:51 PM
Quote from: jknezek on September 25, 2020, 12:29:00 PMMy wife is a spec ed assistant and they shut down the spec ed kids the other day for a pair of positives. That freed up the department teachers and aides to sub throughout the rest of the school. So far, spec ed aids, assistant coaches, bus drivers, admin assistants, and principals and vice principals have all been drafting into "teaching" classes. Suffice to say, not much teaching is happening in those classrooms...
My daughter teaches early elementary music in a small city public school. She likewise has been assigned to assist other teachers with reading and math; music is not being taught right now.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: y_jack_lok on September 26, 2020, 11:02:39 AM
I was unaware of these dashboards, so thanks for mentioning them. Looks like Randolph-Macon is in a similar spot as W&L with an on-campus positivity rate of about 4%-5%. However, when factoring in off-campus folks it jumps to 7.4%. Even 4% seems a bit high to me. https://www.rmc.edu/campus-life/protect/dashboard
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: TyWebb on September 27, 2020, 08:02:31 PM
Here is a link to quickly see how each individual school is doing. Not as detailed at the individual institutions dashboard but you can see
the number of infections per school. Once on the link scroll down to search by state or school name.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/covid-college-cases-tracker.html
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Falconer on October 03, 2020, 08:53:02 PM
On a happier note, the Falcons actually played tonight--against the Falcons. A 60-minute intra-squad scrimmage under the lights, with officiating and the whole works. For the soccer-starved out there, check out this amazing goal by SO F #8 Cole Christian from Midlothian VA. The sequence starts around 29:00: https://www.facebook.com/MessiahMensSoccer/videos/889252188569507/

They don't get any prettier than that!

And, in these times, it's OK to root for the Falcons--they also lost tonight.  :o
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: CC United on October 09, 2020, 12:41:28 PM
Trinity Texas just announced on their twitter feed that the Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference has approved an 8 game conference season in the Spring. Yes, I know, it hasn't happened yet and a lot can happen before then.  We can talk in May about whether this was a good or bad idea.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TrinitySoccerTX/status/1314266627173736448
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Ejay on October 10, 2020, 10:29:54 PM
Quote from: CC United on October 09, 2020, 12:41:28 PM
Trinity Texas just announced on their twitter feed that the Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference has approved an 8 game conference season in the Spring. Yes, I know, it hasn't happened yet and a lot can happen before then.  We can talk in May about whether this was a good or bad idea.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TrinitySoccerTX/status/1314266627173736448


Shhhh, don't tell D-Mac who said conferences planning to play fall sports in the spring weren't "working in reality".
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PaulNewman on October 11, 2020, 09:12:43 AM
Quote from: EB2319 on October 10, 2020, 10:29:54 PM
Quote from: CC United on October 09, 2020, 12:41:28 PM
Trinity Texas just announced on their twitter feed that the Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference has approved an 8 game conference season in the Spring. Yes, I know, it hasn't happened yet and a lot can happen before then.  We can talk in May about whether this was a good or bad idea.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TrinitySoccerTX/status/1314266627173736448


Shhhh, don't tell D-Mac who said conferences planning to play fall sports in the spring weren't "working in reality".

Come on now....please be fair and present a full picture.  He is still VERY confident that a Fall season will happen....in 2020.

Meanwhile, the NESCAC quietly has canceled all Winter competition.

Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Ejay on November 18, 2020, 12:16:26 PM
The ODAC announces plan for return to play in spring...
Soccer (men): shift its existing eight-game unbalanced schedule from fall 2020 to spring 2021. The season will begin Sunday, February 21 and continue thru Sunday, April 4. Four teams will qualify for the ODAC Tournament, slated for Thursday, April 8 and Sunday, April 11

https://www.odaconline.com/general/2020-21/releases/111720-odac-update-spring-semester
https://www.odaconline.com/general/2020-21/releases/111720-odac-spring-update-faq
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Falconer on November 20, 2020, 06:34:00 PM
Despite COVID, the PA state soccer finals are tonight—and the school district that includes the Messiah soccer field (the rest of campus across the Yellow Breeches Creek is in a different county and district), Northern York, is in the the final for the first time ever. They have several players with very impressive offensive numbers. Haven't heard whether any are planning to become Falcons. I can think of just two players from Northern who played at Messiah in the past, none too recently. Northern is the same HS where the great distance runner Marlie Starliper (some here will recognize that name) set the state XC course record and finished second last year in the national Foot Locker race. She's now at NC State. The last Northern team to win a title was, I think, the baseball team in 2011.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 24, 2020, 03:38:19 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 11, 2020, 09:12:43 AM
Quote from: EB2319 on October 10, 2020, 10:29:54 PM
Quote from: CC United on October 09, 2020, 12:41:28 PM
Trinity Texas just announced on their twitter feed that the Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference has approved an 8 game conference season in the Spring. Yes, I know, it hasn't happened yet and a lot can happen before then.  We can talk in May about whether this was a good or bad idea.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TrinitySoccerTX/status/1314266627173736448


Shhhh, don't tell D-Mac who said conferences planning to play fall sports in the spring weren't "working in reality".

Come on now....please be fair and present a full picture.  He is still VERY confident that a Fall season will happen....in 2020.

Meanwhile, the NESCAC quietly has canceled all Winter competition.

Excuse me what? You guys seem to once again not understand what I say when I say it.

For the record, I was in the hospital during this latest shot at me ... so just seeing it. Maybe I should have ignored it because ... it's pointless to repeat myself.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PlaySimple on December 04, 2020, 12:59:52 PM
Quote from: Falconer on November 20, 2020, 06:34:00 PM
Northern is the same HS where the great distance runner Marlie Starliper (some here will recognize that name) set the state XC course record and finished second last year in the national Foot Locker race.

This is an off topic post.

BTW, her name is "Marlee." I just happened to see your post. Do you happen to know why she did not run at NC State this past cross country season? They have a loaded women's team, taking 1st place in their three major competitions this season and winning the ACC Championships. They were 2nd in a tri-meet vs Wake Forest and UNC but that was with the reserve runners. Marlee did not run in any competition this fall . She may not have been the top runner but she most certainly would have run varsity. I'm just wondering if she was injured or redshirted.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Ron Boerger on December 07, 2020, 07:19:15 PM
The SCAC published a Winter/Spring sports schedule update today - no changes for soccer, which for the men is a ten-week schedule starting Feb 20 with conference championships Apr 23-25 at Centenary, women's a nine-week schedule starting Feb 27 with championships Apr 23-25 at Texas Lutheran.

https://www.scacsports.com/news/2020-2021/covid19_update7
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: PlaySimple on January 25, 2021, 01:46:57 PM
It's not D3 but Michigan announced on Saturday that there is a pause of all athletic activity for up to 14 days. This is due to some involved in UofM athletics testing positive for a variant strain of covid that is more virulent.

From the UofM press release:

"The mandate follows positive test results for the SAR-CoV-2 B.1.1.7 variant virus infections from several individuals linked to the U-M Athletic Department through its diligent testing regiment. The B.1.1.7 variant is thought to be approximately 50 percent more transmissible than the standard form of the virus, leading to faster spread of the virus, potentially increased numbers of cases, and additional hospitalizations and deaths."

There have been struggles to holding winter sports at D3 schools around the country. Basketball games are being postponed or canceled, I've heard of some track meets being canceled, etc. Some schools, colleges, and high schools, have tried to combat the situation for track meets by holding events that might be jumping only, throws only, sprints only, distance events only, etc. That's easier to do with a sport like track but it can't work for basketball or most team sports. This all does not bode well for a spring season. I hope that I'm wrong but it's going to be tough.

Here is the UofM press release: https://mgoblue.com/news/2021/1/23/general-university-of-michigan-athletics-enters-department-wide-activity-pause.aspx
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Ejay on February 19, 2021, 10:39:01 AM
Surprised no one has referenced it yet, but the ODAC started their spring schedule earlier this month. Unfortunately weather has impacted many games, but still... they're playing!

https://www.odaconline.com/sports/msoc/2020-21/schedule
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Gotberg on February 22, 2021, 02:31:48 PM
CCIW schools are playing a conference schedule beginning in late March.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: CC United on February 22, 2021, 06:10:34 PM
The Spring 2021 soccer season has started for schools in the Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference (SCAC)(Trinity Texas, Texas Lutheran, Colorado College, South Western ...). https://www.scacsports.com/sports/msoc/2020-21/schedule

Some of the games this past weekend were canceled due to the weather.  Also, the SCAC  member schools are currently not allowing spectators at athletic events, but most of the games are available for streaming.  I have no connection to either school, but Texas Lutheran v. Southwestern on Sunday should be a good game.

Finally, I noticed d3soccer.com is posting some scores from around the country on their scoreboard.

We have a long way to go, but maybe, just maybe, we have turned a corner.  Hopefully, the lessons learned this Spring will help programs around the country have a smooth season this Fall. 

Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: jekelish on February 25, 2021, 05:59:26 PM
Quote from: CC United on February 22, 2021, 06:10:34 PM
The Spring 2021 soccer season has started for schools in the Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference (SCAC)(Trinity Texas, Texas Lutheran, Colorado College, South Western ...). https://www.scacsports.com/sports/msoc/2020-21/schedule

Some of the games this past weekend were canceled due to the weather.  Also, the SCAC  member schools are currently not allowing spectators at athletic events, but most of the games are available for streaming.  I have no connection to either school, but Texas Lutheran v. Southwestern on Sunday should be a good game.

Finally, I noticed d3soccer.com is posting some scores from around the country on their scoreboard.

We have a long way to go, but maybe, just maybe, we have turned a corner.  Hopefully, the lessons learned this Spring will help programs around the country have a smooth season this Fall.

Trinity at Austin College has been postponed due to COVID-19 issues, unfortunately. The women's game is still going to be taking place but the men's match will hopefully be able to be made up later this spring.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Pilsner on February 26, 2021, 04:40:28 PM
Can anyone confirm if any of the D3 conferences are requiring masks during play? - other than the Landmark Conference?  Spectators also banned from at least Catholic University games. 
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Ron Boerger on February 26, 2021, 05:02:59 PM
The SCAC hasn't required them for volleyball or basketball so don't see why they would for soccer.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Ejay on February 27, 2021, 10:32:43 AM
Quote from: Pilsner on February 26, 2021, 04:40:28 PM
Spectators also banned from at least Catholic University games.

The entire Landmark is "banning" spectators - not just Catholic.

Fans are not permitted at any Landmark contests at this time. It is the hope that this policy can be revisited for outdoor sports later this semester if conditions improve and subject to state and local health authorities permitting outdoor gatherings.Fans are encouraged to follow the action of their favorite programs via live streams for available games. The conference's Blueframe channel can be accessed via the web at landmarknetwork.tv
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: fishercats on February 27, 2021, 10:07:13 PM
Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Conference is:

1. Requiring masks
2. Allowing HOME fans only. And I believe this is limited to families of players.

Games kick off week of March 14th.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: NEPAFAN on March 01, 2021, 10:31:15 AM
Landmark games will be counted as Exhibitions, is this unique to the Landmark?
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 01, 2021, 11:21:25 AM
Quote from: NEPAFAN on March 01, 2021, 10:31:15 AM
Landmark games will be counted as Exhibitions, is this unique to the Landmark?

Nope.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Ron Boerger on March 01, 2021, 12:31:45 PM
Trinity (TX) men had to call off last weekend's game against Austin College due to COVID protocols.   According to the Trinity student newspaper (https://trinitonian.com/2021/02/28/news-brief-covid-spike/) there has been a recent outbreak on campus, which they are attributing to the recent weather that knocked out power and water to large parts of the state for several days (which in turn resulted in people gathering for warmth/power/water in those places which still had them).   The other athletic programs on-campus are (so far) not impacted. 
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Ejay on March 02, 2021, 07:12:44 PM
Randolph Macon beat Bridgewater this past weekend 2-0.  RMC's first goal was scored by freshman Chazz Jones. I'm going on record now as saying this kid will be an absolute stud over the next 4 years.  I saw him play club a year or two ago and was immensely impressed.  He was so quick. In one game, he scored a 30 yard right foot rocket and then a 25 yard left foot rocket later in the game. He scored 68 goals in HS - granted they didn't play anyone - but still impressive nonetheless.
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Ron Boerger on March 04, 2021, 09:04:43 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on March 01, 2021, 12:31:45 PM
Trinity (TX) men had to call off last weekend's game against Austin College due to COVID protocols.   According to the Trinity student newspaper (https://trinitonian.com/2021/02/28/news-brief-covid-spike/) there has been a recent outbreak on campus, which they are attributing to the recent weather that knocked out power and water to large parts of the state for several days (which in turn resulted in people gathering for warmth/power/water in those places which still had them).   The other athletic programs on-campus are (so far) not impacted.

They've also called off this weekend's match versus Colorado College (https://www.trinitytigers.com/sports/msoc/2020-21/releases/20210225sra73j) due to continuing COVID issues.   The release says both matches will be rescheduled "schedules permitting".
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: OldNed on March 04, 2021, 03:36:10 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on March 04, 2021, 09:04:43 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on March 01, 2021, 12:31:45 PM
Trinity (TX) men had to call off last weekend's game against Austin College due to COVID protocols.   According to the Trinity student newspaper (https://trinitonian.com/2021/02/28/news-brief-covid-spike/) there has been a recent outbreak on campus, which they are attributing to the recent weather that knocked out power and water to large parts of the state for several days (which in turn resulted in people gathering for warmth/power/water in those places which still had them).   The other athletic programs on-campus are (so far) not impacted.

They've also called off this weekend's match versus Colorado College (https://www.trinitytigers.com/sports/msoc/2020-21/releases/20210225sra73j) due to continuing COVID issues.   The release says both matches will be rescheduled "schedules permitting".

I think there's going to be a lot of those situations across the college sports landscape this spring, until most of population has been vaccinated.  My son works for a D1 program in New England and they've had to cancel their first games on both the men's and women's side due to Covid protocols. 
Title: Re: Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season
Post by: Ron Boerger on March 12, 2021, 12:11:35 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on March 04, 2021, 09:04:43 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on March 01, 2021, 12:31:45 PM
Trinity (TX) men had to call off last weekend's game against Austin College due to COVID protocols.   According to the Trinity student newspaper (https://trinitonian.com/2021/02/28/news-brief-covid-spike/) there has been a recent outbreak on campus, which they are attributing to the recent weather that knocked out power and water to large parts of the state for several days (which in turn resulted in people gathering for warmth/power/water in those places which still had them).   The other athletic programs on-campus are (so far) not impacted.

They've also called off this weekend's match versus Colorado College (https://www.trinitytigers.com/sports/msoc/2020-21/releases/20210225sra73j) due to continuing COVID issues.   The release says both matches will be rescheduled "schedules permitting".

AAND ... this weekend's match against Southwestern.   Same URL, interestingly enough.