2018 West Regional - Spokane, WA

Started by Mike Lehman, May 07, 2018, 12:31:21 PM

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Ralph Turner

#30
Quote from: dp643 on May 14, 2018, 10:07:33 AM
Can someone chime in with the Pool C criteria and how CTX, UTT matched up with Trinity in that regard (maybe Ralph)? Im still a little perplexed at how Trinity got behind them in the regional rankings. Trinity was still 4-2 against the three playoff teams from the west, despite their slow finish.
A "new" criterion this year by the NCAA for baseball was performance in the last 25% of games. Throwing out the game against NAIA Our Lady of the Lake, they had 3 wins against UDallas and 1 against Centenary. 4 wins 7 losses.

Also, I also heard that once ranked always ranked was in effect this year.  In that case, the RRO against Centenary (1-3) hurt them. that wouls give Record against Regonaly Ranked teams of only 7-6.  By going 2 & BBQ, I think that they played themselves out of the Playoffs.

dp643

Ok, that makes sense then. UTT also swept La Verne and TLU this season. ASC probably got big boosts from those two series sweeps.

Jack Parkman

Quote from: dp643 on May 14, 2018, 10:07:33 AM
Can someone chime in with the Pool C criteria and how CTX, UTT matched up with Trinity in that regard (maybe Ralph)? Im still a little perplexed at how Trinity got behind them in the regional rankings. Trinity was still 4-2 against the three playoff teams from the west, despite their slow finish.

A few things to point out here...

1. SOS was a huge difference between these schools.  CTX- 31. UTT- 51, Trinity- 187
2. You mentioned Trinity was 4-2 against the West playoff teams.  While true, they weren't up against TLU in the Pool C running, only CTX and UTT, which they only went 2-0 against.
3. As Ralph mentioned, Trinity went 5-5 down the stretch (not including the SCAC tourney) and that included losses to Southwestern, Schreiner, and McMurry.  Not a good impression on the committee. 
4. I'm not sure if this is taken into consideration but the ASC is a much better conference top to bottom than the SCAC, with UTT sweeping TLU as well.

Purple Heys

2018 West Region Playoff Field

1. Chapman
2. Redlands
3. Concordia (Texas)
4. Texas Lutheran
5. Texas-Dallas
6. Willamette
You can't leave me....all the plants will die.

dp643

Quote from: Jack Parkman on May 14, 2018, 10:33:12 AM
Quote from: dp643 on May 14, 2018, 10:07:33 AM
Can someone chime in with the Pool C criteria and how CTX, UTT matched up with Trinity in that regard (maybe Ralph)? Im still a little perplexed at how Trinity got behind them in the regional rankings. Trinity was still 4-2 against the three playoff teams from the west, despite their slow finish.

A few things to point out here...

1. SOS was a huge difference between these schools.  CTX- 31. UTT- 51, Trinity- 187
2. You mentioned Trinity was 4-2 against the West playoff teams.  While true, they weren't up against TLU in the Pool C running, only CTX and UTT, which they only went 2-0 against.
3. As Ralph mentioned, Trinity went 5-5 down the stretch (not including the SCAC tourney) and that included losses to Southwestern, Schreiner, and McMurry.  Not a good impression on the committee. 
4. I'm not sure if this is taken into consideration but the ASC is a much better conference top to bottom than the SCAC, with UTT sweeping TLU as well.

Im on board now, especially after Ralph chiming in. I was not aware of that part of the criteria. When I made my original post, I had also forgotten about UTT sweeps over La Verne and TLU.

Ralph Turner


dp643

Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 14, 2018, 02:53:06 PM
Glad to see you back dp643!

Thanks Ralph. I have always been lurking, just not much posting! Looking forward to the regional.

Mike Lehman

 ??? ??? ??? Trinity despite a 33-9 and overall record with a .786 winning percentage did not make it to the regional's. They had their opportunity to make it by winning on the field and they did not.

WHY?

1 - Who they played. LOW SOS. Beating bad teams does not help
2 - Who they lost to. Several losses to teams with losing records. Losing to bad teams does not help
3 - When the lost. Failure to win their Conference Tournament and losing and going 2 and Q. and not having a winning record in the last 10 games. Losing 5 of their last 6 games.

dp643

Quote from: Mike Lehman on May 14, 2018, 04:57:44 PM
??? ??? ??? Trinity despite a 33-9 and overall record with a .786 winning percentage did not make it to the regional's. They had their opportunity to make it by winning on the field and they did not.

WHY?

1 - Who they played. LOW SOS. Beating bad teams does not help
2 - Who they lost to. Several losses to teams with losing records. Losing to bad teams does not help
3 - When the lost. Failure to win their Conference Tournament and losing and going 2 and Q. and not having a winning record in the last 10 games. Losing 5 of their last 6 games.

To be fair - when I asked the question, I was operating under the presumption #3 was irrelevant based upon old criteria. #2 goes for UT Tyler and CTX as well. #1 is a huge discrepancy, and really the only factor that mattered when I made the post.

Based upon the criteria I know now, I no longer question why they didnt get in.

AllStar


bzzboyz

Since explanations are the order of the day, who can explain how a conference runner up who didn't finish in the top 25 gets seeded higher than two conference winners and one of which was ranked 6th? Is SOS that big of a decider?

I do find it kinda funny that TLU and Concordia get to travel over 2000 miles to play each other when they're only 50 miles way from each other.

Jack Parkman

Quote from: bzzboyz on May 14, 2018, 07:09:12 PM
Since explanations are the order of the day, who can explain how a conference runner up who didn't finish in the top 25 gets seeded higher than two conference winners and one of which was ranked 6th? Is SOS that big of a decider?

I do find it kinda funny that TLU and Concordia get to travel over 2000 miles to play each other when they're only 50 miles way from each other.

Yes, SOS really is that big of a factor.  TLU's SOS is 119, while CTX is 31, thats a pretty significant difference.  When it comes down to it, I think everyone is seeded right where they should be.  Take the Top 25 rankings out of the equation, they mean nothing.

This would have been a great year for the West to be played in TX as you could have put 4 TX teams there, the NWC and 1 SCIAC and fly the other SCIAC somewhere else. 

Ralph Turner

#42
Quote from: bzzboyz on May 14, 2018, 07:09:12 PM
Since explanations are the order of the day, who can explain how a conference runner up who didn't finish in the top 25 gets seeded higher than two conference winners and one of which was ranked 6th? Is SOS that big of a decider?

I do find it kinda funny that TLU and Concordia get to travel over 2000 miles to play each other when they're only 50 miles way from each other.
The criteria used by the NCAA are different than the D3baseball.com/NCBWA Top 25 (or for that matter the ABCA Top 30) poll. TLU and CTX are playing because the NCAA did not want Redlands and Chapman or UT-D and CTX playing each other in the first round. TLU and CTX are roughly/naturally the  #4 and #3 seeds in the region.

IMHO, there is not a dime's worth of difference in the Top 5 seeds and Willamette is truly my darkhorse.

Ralph Turner

#43
Quote from: Jack Parkman on May 14, 2018, 07:41:45 PM
Quote from: bzzboyz on May 14, 2018, 07:09:12 PM
Since explanations are the order of the day, who can explain how a conference runner up who didn't finish in the top 25 gets seeded higher than two conference winners and one of which was ranked 6th? Is SOS that big of a decider?

I do find it kinda funny that TLU and Concordia get to travel over 2000 miles to play each other when they're only 50 miles way from each other.

Yes, SOS really is that big of a factor.  TLU's SOS is 119, while CTX is 31, thats a pretty significant difference.  When it comes down to it, I think everyone is seeded right where they should be.  Take the Top 25 rankings out of the equation, they mean nothing.

This would have been a great year for the West to be played in TX as you could have put 4 TX teams there, the NWC and 1 SCIAC and fly the other SCIAC somewhere else.
I am glad that they are flying a Texas team to another region.  I will be very upset if UTT goes 2 and BBQ (again).

Since 2010, here is UTT's record in the West Regionals

2010 1-2 (eliminated by Mississippi College, which was still a member of the ASC)
2011  0-2
2013  2-2 
2015  0-2
2016  2-2
2017  0-2.

Jack Parkman

Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 14, 2018, 08:45:42 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on May 14, 2018, 07:41:45 PM
Quote from: bzzboyz on May 14, 2018, 07:09:12 PM
Since explanations are the order of the day, who can explain how a conference runner up who didn't finish in the top 25 gets seeded higher than two conference winners and one of which was ranked 6th? Is SOS that big of a decider?

I do find it kinda funny that TLU and Concordia get to travel over 2000 miles to play each other when they're only 50 miles way from each other.

Yes, SOS really is that big of a factor.  TLU's SOS is 119, while CTX is 31, thats a pretty significant difference.  When it comes down to it, I think everyone is seeded right where they should be.  Take the Top 25 rankings out of the equation, they mean nothing.

This would have been a great year for the West to be played in TX as you could have put 4 TX teams there, the NWC and 1 SCIAC and fly the other SCIAC somewhere else.
I am glad that they are flying a Texas team to another region.  I will be very upset if UTT goes 2 and BBQ (again).

Since 2010, here is UTT's record in the West Regionals

2010 1-2 (eliminated by Mississippi College, which was still a member of the ASC)
2011  0-2
2013  2-2 
2015  0-2
2016  2-2
2017  0-2 *0-3  Forgetting to tarp the field on Saturday night should count as a big L