FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

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Augie6

Quote from: Hardwood on January 10, 2015, 04:21:57 PM
Quote from: Augie6 on January 10, 2015, 02:18:34 PM
Quote from: Dr. Acula on January 10, 2015, 08:06:16 AM
I don't know the ins and outs of Augie, but IMO if you have three things present you can always win with a good coach:

1)  Proximity to HS talent
2)  Quality facilities
3)  A pro-athletics administration that supports sports as an institutional priority

From the sounds of the discussion it seems like Augie is a program located near the western suburbs with very nice facilities who competes in a very good conference.  If their administration supports sports (which nice facilities usually signals) then that sounds like a really good job.  Good luck to Coach Bell.

Number 3 is the big question.  The feeling is the current president isn't very supportive of sports and that's why we have seen Augie fall to the depths that they have.   As far as the  recent investments in the football stadium, I think that can be attributed more to the efforts of former Augie and Cincinnati Bengal QB, Ken Anderson, than it can be to President Bahls.  I'm still not sure this administration really "gets it" when it comes to the impact the sports can play on the educational process.


I don't agree with Augie6 on this one.  Whose "feeling" is it that the current president isn't very supportive of sports?  Is the football program the only measuring stick for deciding whether the president is supportive of athletics?  The men's basketball and track programs have had sustained success on the national level for many years running.  The baseball and wrestling programs were CCIW champs in 2014, Women's CC were CCIW champs in 2013 just to name a few successes.
The president's tenure has included the remodel of the Carver PE center, Swanson/Bruner Field for baseball, and the addition of men's and women's Lacrosse, along with the aforementioned football remodel.
I, like you, am frustrated with the recent struggles within the football program but choose to look at the bigger picture of Augustana sports - not just football.

HW,

Before you give too much credit to President Bahls, I give most of the credit for basketball, track and baseball to Coaches Giovanne, Olsen and Wallace who were all in place well before Bahls became president.  Swanson/Bruner field opened in March of 2004 and Bahls became President in October, 2003 so I think it's pretty safe to say that facility was already planned for before Bahls became President.  You say the wrestling team won a CCIW championship in 2014.  Do you realize that from 1982-2004, Augie won every CCIW championship during that time with the exception of 1997.  Seems like wrestling took a pretty big nose dive shortly after he took over. 

You do also realize that football has the biggest impact of any of the sports (by far) when it comes to the number of potential student athletes who could choose to attend Augustana.  But yet, the current administration made the decision a few years ago to get rid of Coach Barnes,who had a .727 CCIW win percentage and a .699 overall, and is 2nd all time to Coach Reade in victories at Augie. The very next day, that same administration appoints a coach who had a career .500 winning percentage with no connections to Augie's typical recruiting area to be the Head Coach of the football team.  That appointment has set the program back to levels that haven't been seen at Augie since the 1950's.  Did they finally spend some money on a football stadium?  Yes.  But this occurred well after many other Division III schools in the Midwest had upgraded their facilities and Augie was at a distinct disadvantage for many years as a result. The feeling that this President isn't a big supporter of athletics is shared by quite a few alumni that I know.  The fact that you disagree is fine, but I certainly don't think the things you point out show a strong commitment from this President. 
Augie Football:  CCIW Champions:  1949-66-68-75-81-82-83-84-85-86-87-88-90-91-93-94-97-99-01-05-06     NCAA Champions:  1983-84-85-86

Hardwood

Augie6,

I'm not giving all the credit to the current president on the things I listed, just trying to show that because the football program has suffered some tough times doesn't mean the whole athletic program is faltering.  I realize football does have the potential to draw in lots of students and I believe coach Cushman brought in a large class last year - so from a purely numbers perspective football is still getting that accomplished.
What would be your top suggestions to the administration to turn the program around?

USee

Well I think we all agree the Cushman hire was a mistake.  Augie6 has said The current administration got rid of Barnes and hired Cushman within 24 hours.  This time they went through a process that resulted in a strong hire.  I think we can all agree a process like this one would have been a good idea last time.  I until know if Cushman set the program back or how much but the Bell hire makes a much stronger impression than the Cushman hire.

Augie6

Quote from: Hardwood on January 11, 2015, 12:12:08 PM
Augie6,

I'm not giving all the credit to the current president on the things I listed, just trying to show that because the football program has suffered some tough times doesn't mean the whole athletic program is faltering.  I realize football does have the potential to draw in lots of students and I believe coach Cushman brought in a large class last year - so from a purely numbers perspective football is still getting that accomplished.
What would be your top suggestions to the administration to turn the program around?

HW,

I would say how they handled this coaching hire vs what transpired 4 years ago is a HUGE step in the right direction.  My opinion was covered on this board when the Barnes/Cushman transition occurred, so I'm not going to re-hash that.  Suffice it to say (and as Usee points out), the way that situation transpired was a big mistake and it certainly showed little to no commitment from the administration at even attempting to ensure the right person was hired to run the largest athletic team (in terms of #'s) at the school.  Coach Bell seems like a good hire, but only time will tell with that.  What I'm happy about, is that it was a thoughtful process that identified 3 very solid final candidates for a job that has lost some of it's luster over the past few seasons.  If they had 150+ applicants for the job after 4 seasons with Cushman running the program into the ground, can you imagine the interest there would have been from very good candidates when Coach Barnes was forced out.

I would like to see the administration (and incoming coaching staff) reach out to former alumni to help with the recruiting process.  I think there would be a lot of former players willing to do that.  I don't think those same players would have been willing to recommend kids going to Augie to play football after the whole Barnes/Cushman transition and the ensuing decline of the program.  Don't get me wrong, Augie is a great school and I would always recommend it from an educational standpoint.  But if a kid wanted to play football while they are getting their education, I wouldn't have recommended Augie over the past few years. 

I'm hopeful that this administration is waking up to the fact that intercollegiate athletics can and does play an important role in the education process.  As I've said many times, I have applied skills that I learned on athletic fields as often as skills I learned in the classroom, during my career.  And, if it's recognized that athletics can play an important role in the educational process, then it's important to have a commitment to excellence for athletics, much like a school would for academics.  We'll see where it goes from here. 
Augie Football:  CCIW Champions:  1949-66-68-75-81-82-83-84-85-86-87-88-90-91-93-94-97-99-01-05-06     NCAA Champions:  1983-84-85-86

Gregory Sager

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 10, 2015, 10:43:28 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 10, 2015, 10:28:15 PM
Quote from: Dr. Acula on January 10, 2015, 08:06:16 AM
I don't know the ins and outs of Augie, but IMO if you have three things present you can always win with a good coach:

1)  Proximity to HS talent
2)  Quality facilities
3)  A pro-athletics administration that supports sports as an institutional priority

From the sounds of the discussion it seems like Augie is a program located near the western suburbs

It isn't, though. Augie is three hours west of Chicago.

Or two, if you drive like me! ;D  (But they DO seem to have cultivated quite a pipeline to the western suburbs - good coaching contacts, I'd assume.

Yes and no. One of the Augie alumni who post here might have more information about this than I do, but my understanding is that it's not just the Augie football team that has a high representation from the western suburbs. From what I know of the school, it appears that Augie's student base as a whole has a strong west-suburban flavor. And the other teams at Augie appear to reflect that as well; the baseball team, for instance, has eleven players from the western and southwestern suburbs, as well as a few players from the northern suburbs.

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 10, 2015, 10:43:28 PMAnyone know if their Lutheran affiliation has much impact on recruiting?)

I highly doubt it. The Lutheran denomination to which Augie belongs, the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America, is not nearly as tightly-knit as are the smaller Lutheran denominations, nor does it run high schools that can act as feeder programs for the teams at ELCA colleges, in contrast to, say, the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod (lots of kids attend the various Concordia schools after graduating from LCMS high schools such as Luther North and Walther). Of the twelve Lutheran high schools in Illinois, ten of them are LCMS affiliates, one (Illinois Lutheran in Crete) is affliated with the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod, and the other one (Rockford Lutheran) is jointly affiliated with the LCMS and with ELCA.

More importantly, the impression that I have of Augie's campus culture is that, like most colleges that are affiliated with mainline denominations, the religious connection is pretty vestigial.

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 10, 2015, 10:43:28 PMI have a soft spot for Monmouth College.  My mentally and physically impaired niece lives a fairly independent life there; nearly all of the people who assist her are in some way affiliated with the college.

Your fellow IWU alumnus Steve Schweer, who played basketball for the Titans and then served as a graduate assistant coach at North Park while he was obtaining his master's degree from NPU, is both the assistant coach of the Monmouth men's basketball team and the school's assistant AD. Real good guy, too.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

Gregory Sager

Quote from: Augie6 on January 11, 2015, 12:23:45 AM
Quote from: Hardwood on January 10, 2015, 04:21:57 PM
Quote from: Augie6 on January 10, 2015, 02:18:34 PM
Quote from: Dr. Acula on January 10, 2015, 08:06:16 AM
I don't know the ins and outs of Augie, but IMO if you have three things present you can always win with a good coach:

1)  Proximity to HS talent
2)  Quality facilities
3)  A pro-athletics administration that supports sports as an institutional priority

From the sounds of the discussion it seems like Augie is a program located near the western suburbs with very nice facilities who competes in a very good conference.  If their administration supports sports (which nice facilities usually signals) then that sounds like a really good job.  Good luck to Coach Bell.

Number 3 is the big question.  The feeling is the current president isn't very supportive of sports and that's why we have seen Augie fall to the depths that they have.   As far as the  recent investments in the football stadium, I think that can be attributed more to the efforts of former Augie and Cincinnati Bengal QB, Ken Anderson, than it can be to President Bahls.  I'm still not sure this administration really "gets it" when it comes to the impact the sports can play on the educational process.


I don't agree with Augie6 on this one.  Whose "feeling" is it that the current president isn't very supportive of sports?  Is the football program the only measuring stick for deciding whether the president is supportive of athletics?  The men's basketball and track programs have had sustained success on the national level for many years running.  The baseball and wrestling programs were CCIW champs in 2014, Women's CC were CCIW champs in 2013 just to name a few successes.
The president's tenure has included the remodel of the Carver PE center, Swanson/Bruner Field for baseball, and the addition of men's and women's Lacrosse, along with the aforementioned football remodel.
I, like you, am frustrated with the recent struggles within the football program but choose to look at the bigger picture of Augustana sports - not just football.

HW,

Before you give too much credit to President Bahls, I give most of the credit for basketball, track and baseball to Coaches Giovanne, Olsen and Wallace who were all in place well before Bahls became president.  Swanson/Bruner field opened in March of 2004 and Bahls became President in October, 2003 so I think it's pretty safe to say that facility was already planned for before Bahls became President.  You say the wrestling team won a CCIW championship in 2014.  Do you realize that from 1982-2004, Augie won every CCIW championship during that time with the exception of 1997.  Seems like wrestling took a pretty big nose dive shortly after he took over.

Up until about a decade ago, or perhaps a decade and a half, the conventional wisdom around the CCIW was that the league had never had an all-sports trophy because, as one wag once put it, "Augie would've run out of room to put them all." Every year, perhaps dating back even as far as 1960 (the year after Wheaton was kindly invited to exit what was then called the College Conference of Illlinois so that the Crusaders could go pick on somebody their own size), Augustana regularly won more CCIW titles and finished higher in the standings across the breadth of CCIW sports than did anybody else. With the exception of a few outliers such as men's cross-country (take a bow, Al Carius of NCC) and, later, men's soccer (in which it took other CCIW programs a decade and a half before even one of them was able to compete with longtime national powerhouse Wheaton under Joe Bean), the rule of thumb in the CCIW was that, no matter the sport, if you wanted to win the title you'd probably have to go through Rock Island in order to do it, since Augie was typically one of the top two or three contenders regardless of the sport.

That's certainly not true anymore. As Hardwood pointed out, there are still Augustana programs that are very strong (and even, as is the case in men's basketball, dominant) within this circuit. But, as Augie6 pointed out in rebuttal, those tend to be programs that were already strong under coaches whose tenure dates back to the era of all-sports dominance. The question is this, however: Is the decline of Augustana in terms of all-sports CCIW dominance a function of the Augustana administration's lessening interest in, and emphasis upon, athletics success, or is it a function of one or more CCIW rivals upping the ante?
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

Augie6

Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 12, 2015, 06:20:42 PM

Up until about a decade ago, or perhaps a decade and a half, the conventional wisdom around the CCIW was that the league had never had an all-sports trophy because, as one wag once put it, "Augie would've run out of room to put them all." Every year, perhaps dating back even as far as 1960 (the year after Wheaton was kindly invited to exit what was then called the College Conference of Illlinois so that the Crusaders could go pick on somebody their own size), Augustana regularly won more CCIW titles and finished higher in the standings across the breadth of CCIW sports than did anybody else. With the exception of a few outliers such as men's cross-country (take a bow, Al Carius of NCC) and, later, men's soccer (in which it took other CCIW programs a decade and a half before even one of them was able to compete with longtime national powerhouse Wheaton under Joe Bean), the rule of thumb in the CCIW was that, no matter the sport, if you wanted to win the title you'd probably have to go through Rock Island in order to do it, since Augie was typically one of the top two or three contenders regardless of the sport.

That's certainly not true anymore. As Hardwood pointed out, there are still Augustana programs that are very strong (and even, as is the case in men's basketball, dominant) within this circuit. But, as Augie6 pointed out in rebuttal, those tend to be programs that were already strong under coaches whose tenure dates back to the era of all-sports dominance. The question is this, however: Is the decline of Augustana in terms of all-sports CCIW dominance a function of the Augustana administration's lessening interest in, and emphasis upon, athletics success, or is it a function of one or more CCIW rivals upping the ante?

Mr. Sager,

I didn't go into that in my response to Hardwood, but you are spot on in your comments about Augie's performance in multiple sports of over many years.  Something has definitely changed and I think it's probably a combination of factors that you mention.  Clearly, some of the programs in the CCIW and throughout the country have made changes which have served to "up the ante" as it relates to competing at a high level in athletics.  Schools have invested in facilities and brought in the right people to run the athletic programs, and, as a result have seen a significant increase in their athletic successes.  NCC is probably the best example of this in the CCIW over the past decade, particularly as it relates to their successes in football, men's basketball and wrestling to go with the always strong men's track and field and cross country programs. 
Augie Football:  CCIW Champions:  1949-66-68-75-81-82-83-84-85-86-87-88-90-91-93-94-97-99-01-05-06     NCAA Champions:  1983-84-85-86

Hardwood

Quote from: Augie6 on January 12, 2015, 01:58:20 PM
Quote from: Hardwood on January 11, 2015, 12:12:08 PM
Augie6,

I'm not giving all the credit to the current president on the things I listed, just trying to show that because the football program has suffered some tough times doesn't mean the whole athletic program is faltering.  I realize football does have the potential to draw in lots of students and I believe coach Cushman brought in a large class last year - so from a purely numbers perspective football is still getting that accomplished.
What would be your top suggestions to the administration to turn the program around?

HW,

I would say how they handled this coaching hire vs what transpired 4 years ago is a HUGE step in the right direction.  My opinion was covered on this board when the Barnes/Cushman transition occurred, so I'm not going to re-hash that.  Suffice it to say (and as Usee points out), the way that situation transpired was a big mistake and it certainly showed little to no commitment from the administration at even attempting to ensure the right person was hired to run the largest athletic team (in terms of #'s) at the school.  Coach Bell seems like a good hire, but only time will tell with that.  What I'm happy about, is that it was a thoughtful process that identified 3 very solid final candidates for a job that has lost some of it's luster over the past few seasons.  If they had 150+ applicants for the job after 4 seasons with Cushman running the program into the ground, can you imagine the interest there would have been from very good candidates when Coach Barnes was forced out.

I would like to see the administration (and incoming coaching staff) reach out to former alumni to help with the recruiting process.  I think there would be a lot of former players willing to do that.  I don't think those same players would have been willing to recommend kids going to Augie to play football after the whole Barnes/Cushman transition and the ensuing decline of the program.  Don't get me wrong, Augie is a great school and I would always recommend it from an educational standpoint.  But if a kid wanted to play football while they are getting their education, I wouldn't have recommended Augie over the past few years. 

I'm hopeful that this administration is waking up to the fact that intercollegiate athletics can and does play an important role in the education process.  As I've said many times, I have applied skills that I learned on athletic fields as often as skills I learned in the classroom, during my career.  And, if it's recognized that athletics can play an important role in the educational process, then it's important to have a commitment to excellence for athletics, much like a school would for academics.  We'll see where it goes from here.

Augie6,

Fair statement - let's see what happens.  My only suggestion would be for you to be proactive and email the recruiting coordinator and help get things rolling!

cciwfootballfan

Quote from: Augie6 on January 12, 2015, 07:59:04 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 12, 2015, 06:20:42 PM

Up until about a decade ago, or perhaps a decade and a half, the conventional wisdom around the CCIW was that the league had never had an all-sports trophy because, as one wag once put it, "Augie would've run out of room to put them all." Every year, perhaps dating back even as far as 1960 (the year after Wheaton was kindly invited to exit what was then called the College Conference of Illlinois so that the Crusaders could go pick on somebody their own size), Augustana regularly won more CCIW titles and finished higher in the standings across the breadth of CCIW sports than did anybody else. With the exception of a few outliers such as men's cross-country (take a bow, Al Carius of NCC) and, later, men's soccer (in which it took other CCIW programs a decade and a half before even one of them was able to compete with longtime national powerhouse Wheaton under Joe Bean), the rule of thumb in the CCIW was that, no matter the sport, if you wanted to win the title you'd probably have to go through Rock Island in order to do it, since Augie was typically one of the top two or three contenders regardless of the sport.

That's certainly not true anymore. As Hardwood pointed out, there are still Augustana programs that are very strong (and even, as is the case in men's basketball, dominant) within this circuit. But, as Augie6 pointed out in rebuttal, those tend to be programs that were already strong under coaches whose tenure dates back to the era of all-sports dominance. The question is this, however: Is the decline of Augustana in terms of all-sports CCIW dominance a function of the Augustana administration's lessening interest in, and emphasis upon, athletics success, or is it a function of one or more CCIW rivals upping the ante?

Mr. Sager,

I didn't go into that in my response to Hardwood, but you are spot on in your comments about Augie's performance in multiple sports of over many years.  Something has definitely changed and I think it's probably a combination of factors that you mention.  Clearly, some of the programs in the CCIW and throughout the country have made changes which have served to "up the ante" as it relates to competing at a high level in athletics.  Schools have invested in facilities and brought in the right people to run the athletic programs, and, as a result have seen a significant increase in their athletic successes.  NCC is probably the best example of this in the CCIW over the past decade, particularly as it relates to their successes in football, men's basketball and wrestling to go with the always strong men's track and field and cross country programs. 

fyi:
http://athletics.wheaton.edu/news/2014/12/24/GEN_1224144457.aspx?path=gen

augiefan

I just hope Coach Bell brings Augie's offense into the modern era. The passing game has pretty much totally supplanted the running game in college football, and I think the high school kids are drawn to programs with high powered offenses. Hopefully Coach Bell can approach doing what Coach Thorne did at NCC.

Gregory Sager

I'll be interviewing Mike Conway at halftime of tomorrow evening's EC @ NPU men's basketball game. Tune in if you'd like to hear his thoughts; he's a pretty candid guy, and I try not to toss my interview guests a lot of softballs.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

CardinalAlum

D3 National Champions 2019 & 2022  ** D3 National Champions 2019 & 2022  **   D3 National Champions 2019 & 2022  **  D3 National Champions 2019 & 2022  **  D3 National Champions 2019 & 2022  **  D3 National Champions 2019 & 2022  **  D3 National Champions 2019 & 2022  **  D3 National Champions 2019 & 2022  **  D3 National Champions 2019 2022

79jaybird

That's a nice recruit for NC.  Perhaps he will evolve into something special for the Cards.
VOICE OF THE BLUEJAYS '01-'10
CCIW FOOTBALL CHAMPIONS 1978 1980 2012
CCIW BASKETBALL CHAMPIONS 2001
2022 BASKETBALL NATIONAL RUNNER UP
2018 CCIW PICK EM'S CHAMPION


thewaterboy

Hey North Central fans, just to stir it up a little (and because the UWW-Wesley opener is an extreme longshot of ever happening), I saw that North Central is looking for a game to open the season and so does Wesley. Pretty interesting stuff for both schools if it becomes a possibility.