FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

Started by admin, August 16, 2005, 04:58:09 AM

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polbear73

Many thanks for the update, PBPOP20.  Your post adds to my optimism about what Coach Wells has been doing.  I have heard indirectly about the somewhat more realistic attitude on the part of the Admissions Office and I am also hoping that it will pay off in Year 3 of Coach Wells' program.  I have always thought that Bowdoin usually had success in recruiting skill players but, as everyone knows, it all begins upfront.  Hopefully maturing offensive and defensive lines will allow those skill players to perform.

Thanks again. 

gridiron

The more realistic approach by admissions will be the difference-maker. At a distinct disadvantage without said mind set.

lumbercat

A lot of surprise Football admissions this year in Brunswick- In the Caputi days Coach C would lobby for key recruits and he was summarily shot down by admissions.....new deal in Brunswick today- Football recruits getting in who didn't stand a chance in the past......Hockey admissions looser than ever also after getting drummed by Colby last winter.

Bowdoin AD has some real influence with Admissions. With the lofty Bowdoin academic rankings there has been pressure on admissions  to loosen the standards for athletes and they have revised their admissions process. Bowdoin athletics will benefit profoundly from this.

middhoops

Quote from: amh63 on May 28, 2018, 05:41:46 PM
A late to the party type post...the QB D1 transfer to the Nescac topic.  There are talent level differences when one considers the "D1 schools" conferences.  The Ivies versus the Bucknell/Lehigh versus the Un of Cal. at San Diego, etc. conferences.  Then there are the differences in time differences.  I remember when Harvard looked to the House conference for QBs in past eras.
The mentioned QB Foote transfer to Midd came from Brown.  His father was an Amherst alum to boot.
Need to think on that transfer...why?  Better opportunities, offensive coaches, etc., eTc.
If you're referring to Mac Foote, he was the starter as a freshman at Brown but reportedly not comfortable with the size of the school.  His prep school room mate was playing at Middlebury.  Foote came to visit and decided to take his game to the great frozen north.  And it made for 3 very entertaining years.
Was it a better opportunity?  Doubt it.
Better coaches?  Don't know.

Or, amh63, I may have (yet again) misunderstood a point someone made.  If so, mea cupla.

gridiron

Lumbercat--Good for Bowdoin.  No indications Colby admissions bending yet. Guessing new AD still feeling his way and not making waves at admissions. Its a shame really, given the flexibility several other programs have.

By the way, as you may know, the key to the Mule hockey team this season was a goalie transfer.

amh63

Middhoops.....to the best of my fading memory, the Foote is not related to your cuz's family, his father was a big time doctor in Boston and he did not transfer immediately to Midd but may have took a sort of "sabbatical" of sorts to think about his future.  Then again, I maybe way out in left field...not unusual as my kids will point out.
Just back today from my reunion with all my kids joining in.  Hung a bit with the "jocks"...mainly linemen, so I must report a bit on the LJs' football players in the class of 2022.  Seems there are 19 players found on the football twitter account to date....even two QBs to hold the clipboards. Several RBs, and a number of receivers.  There are the usual big linemen and the LBs and DBs and even a kicker.  One of the players is from Hartford, CT!...and another from Columbus OH!  How did Amherst get them from the likes of Trinity and Ohio State? ;D

ColbyFootball

Quote from: gridiron on May 30, 2018, 07:42:10 AM
Lumbercat--Good for Bowdoin.  No indications Colby admissions bending yet. Guessing new AD still feeling his way and not making waves at admissions. Its a shame really, given the flexibility several other programs have.

By the way, as you may know, the key to the Mule hockey team this season was a goalie transfer.
Is it easier to get into Williams, Amherst or Middlebury as a football player than Colby?

gridiron

It depends. If the coaches have identified a player as a "must have", there are many times when the answer is yes. However, certain variables come into play, including one cannot "go to the well" too often during a given recruiting season.

As many have stated numerous times on this board, admissions, the AD and coach all must work together to build a successful program.

ColbyFootball

Quote from: gridiron on May 30, 2018, 07:16:37 PM
It depends. If the coaches have identified a player as a "must have", there are many times when the answer is yes. However, certain variables come into play, including one cannot "go to the well" too often during a given recruiting season.

As many have stated numerous times on this board, admissions, the AD and coach all must work together to build a successful program.
While Williams, Amherst and Middlebury can go to the well for a must have player, I assume all things being equal they have tougher admissions than the other successful nescac programs. But, that's just my assumption, that's why I asked.

quicksilver

Quote from: lumbercat on May 29, 2018, 10:59:16 PM
A lot of surprise Football admissions this year in Brunswick- In the Caputi days Coach C would lobby for key recruits and he was summarily shot down by admissions.....new deal in Brunswick today- Football recruits getting in who didn't stand a chance in the past......Hockey admissions looser than ever also after getting drummed by Colby last winter.

Bowdoin AD has some real influence with Admissions. With the lofty Bowdoin academic rankings there has been pressure on admissions  to loosen the standards for athletes and they have revised their admissions process. Bowdoin athletics will benefit profoundly from this.

Hope that this is true in the case of both the Bowdoin football and hockey programs!! Bowdoin has struggled more often than not on the gridiron for many years, with recruiting restrictions a big part of the problem. The Bowdoin AD is a former Bowdoin football player so likely has a very clear sense of what needs to be done to make the football program more competitive. The men's hockey program, in contrast, has long been the crown jewel of the Bowdoin sports program so it has been stunning to watch the hockey program crash and burn in the past few years with very few of the stars who used to delight us during the wintry months . .An obvious victim of recruiting restrictions that do not seem to apply to most of the other NESCAC teams. The same thing also happened to the Middlebury hockey program, which has fallen even further than the Bowdoin hockey program.   

polbear73

Quote from: quicksilver on May 31, 2018, 01:22:32 AM
Quote from: lumbercat on May 29, 2018, 10:59:16 PM
A lot of surprise Football admissions this year in Brunswick- In the Caputi days Coach C would lobby for key recruits and he was summarily shot down by admissions.....new deal in Brunswick today- Football recruits getting in who didn't stand a chance in the past......Hockey admissions looser than ever also after getting drummed by Colby last winter.

Bowdoin AD has some real influence with Admissions. With the lofty Bowdoin academic rankings there has been pressure on admissions  to loosen the standards for athletes and they have revised their admissions process. Bowdoin athletics will benefit profoundly from this.
The influence of a certain new Board member can't be underestimated either.  This gentleman has been generous to Bowdoin, particularly athletics, and it is rumored that he has been very vocal in getting football and hockey fixed. 

Hope that this is true in the case of both the Bowdoin football and hockey programs!! Bowdoin has struggled more often than not on the gridiron for many years, with recruiting restrictions a big part of the problem. The Bowdoin AD is a former Bowdoin football player so likely has a very clear sense of what needs to be done to make the football program more competitive. The men's hockey program, in contrast, has long been the crown jewel of the Bowdoin sports program so it has been stunning to watch the hockey program crash and burn in the past few years with very few of the stars who used to delight us during the wintry months . .An obvious victim of recruiting restrictions that do not seem to apply to most of the other NESCAC teams. The same thing also happened to the Middlebury hockey program, which has fallen even further than the Bowdoin hockey program.

unionpalooza

This post from a while back had me thinking of the last time this question was settled on the field rather than in message boards.  Unless anyone remembers one more recent, I think it was the last Union-Hamilton game in 1991.  It was memorable - Union won 51-17, in a game plagued with a few hundred yards in unsportmanlike penalties and at least one ejection.  The highlight was when Hamilton's stud RB (Eric Grey) finally managed to break off a TD run against Union's third string, which played the whole second half, for a meaningless TD in the last few minutes.  Grey spiked the ball and the Hamilton team ran the field and celebrated as though they had won the Super Bowl.  Bagnoli was so pissed he put the first string offense back in and scored another touchdown with a few seconds to go.

Good times.

Quote from: dlip on April 11, 2018, 03:56:28 PM
Quote from: PolarCat on April 10, 2018, 07:58:25 PM
Quote from: dlip on April 09, 2018, 12:25:33 PMdlip does agree with you for the most part. He just thinks the way you tried to "NESCAC" ufanbill was piss poor and hopefully not representative of a NESCAC education...maybe more a Union one.

Sorry to burst your bubble.  Dartmouth undergrad here.  Though if I had a kid at Union, and some putz from another conference (NEC?  NEWMAC?  SUNYAC?) came on the Liberty League board talking smack, I would respond the same way.  (I guess you would then say I "Liberty-ed" them?) 

And what's your take on the data?  That kids apply to Amherst, Williams, Bowdoin, et. al. because the weather is finer there than in Upstate?  The coeds are hotter?  The beer is colder?  The drugs are better?  The tuition is cheaper?  There are more non-gender specific bathrooms?  (You may have me there).  That their odds of meeting the one-legged lesbian bagpipe player of their dreams are higher in the NESCAC?  How, pray tell, does dlip spin the acceptance rates?

+k for the post PolarCat. dlip enjoys some ribbing.

In all seriousness he really doesn't know a great data point to use to illustrate your point. He just felt that the one you used, acceptance rates, may not tell the entire story. Although he will restate the fact that he does agree with what you said. To be honest he really doesn't know how to best assess and/or rate schools in regards to pure academic excellence that would show a clear picture that would shut down any possible rebuttal. Princeton review may have some data? Maybe a look at the average salaries of graduates of NESCAC schools vs other highly reputable D3 academic institutions. Honestly, he doesn't really know, and admittedly because of that he should ease up on his critique of the data point you used.

Anyway, the banter was fun and to dlip, based on his own personal experience, as well as what he "feels" from observation and being a former college student himself, academically the NESCAC school sit, "Oh so high" on the academic excellence totem pole. Maybe the decision to not be considered for playoff entrance is based prominently on the idea of academics first and forming a tight knit group of like minded academic institutions.

With all of that being said to dlip, he can say with certainty, that because of the fact that NESCAC schools do not take part in the post season or play out of league games it is really almost impossible to accurately assess just how much better, worse, or similar they are to other D3 football schools. Someone previous made a comment that the top NESCAC teams would "crush" Union. Possibly...possibly not. There really isn't a true way to know where one could make such a statement with certainty and validity.

PBPOP20

Quote from: unionpalooza on May 31, 2018, 12:15:11 PM
This post from a while back had me thinking of the last time this question was settled on the field rather than in message boards.  Unless anyone remembers one more recent, I think it was the last Union-Hamilton game in 1991.  It was memorable - Union won 51-17, in a game plagued with a few hundred yards in unsportmanlike penalties and at least one ejection.  The highlight was when Hamilton's stud RB (Eric Grey) finally managed to break off a TD run against Union's third string, which played the whole second half, for a meaningless TD in the last few minutes.  Grey spiked the ball and the Hamilton team ran the field and celebrated as though they had won the Super Bowl.  Bagnoli was so pissed he put the first string offense back in and scored another touchdown with a few seconds to go.

Good times.

Not really relevant to the conversation... Union was a beast 89-93  and fell of a cliff after that never approaching that level of success...  picking a game out of history with perhaps one of Unions strongest teams ever (undefeated regular season 10-0 in 91)  hardly makes the point.

PBPOP20

And just a question.... honestly, I have no clue..   Are NESCAC posters going over to the liberty league or east region board and taking shots at their teams/leagues?  Or is the NESCAC board just lucky?   

Jonny Utah

Quote from: PBPOP20 on May 31, 2018, 04:41:07 PM
Quote from: unionpalooza on May 31, 2018, 12:15:11 PM
This post from a while back had me thinking of the last time this question was settled on the field rather than in message boards.  Unless anyone remembers one more recent, I think it was the last Union-Hamilton game in 1991.  It was memorable - Union won 51-17, in a game plagued with a few hundred yards in unsportmanlike penalties and at least one ejection.  The highlight was when Hamilton's stud RB (Eric Grey) finally managed to break off a TD run against Union's third string, which played the whole second half, for a meaningless TD in the last few minutes.  Grey spiked the ball and the Hamilton team ran the field and celebrated as though they had won the Super Bowl.  Bagnoli was so pissed he put the first string offense back in and scored another touchdown with a few seconds to go.

Good times.

Not really relevant to the conversation... Union was a beast 89-93  and fell of a cliff after that never approaching that level of success...  picking a game out of history with perhaps one of Unions strongest teams ever (undefeated regular season 10-0 in 91)  hardly makes the point.

Those Union teams were ok, but there were better teams 😂