FB: Liberty League

Started by admin, August 16, 2005, 04:58:34 AM

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Bartman

#49365
Quote from: dlip on July 10, 2017, 10:12:07 AM
You guys make some great points regarding the bowl game. dlip is just an old softy who likes to squeeze as much east region d3 football out of the figurative d3 football nipple as possible every year. Hopefully this game won't be a hinderance for the players. When it comes down to it dlip believes it is all about them. dlip just loves both of these conferences and will certainly look to attend an extra game between the two...of course he says that now when his two kids and wife are not in the room.  ;D
dlip, +k for enthusiasm and unwavering support for the E8 and LL, I think this could be a great game as well, but OOC frequency between the 2 leagues , at least for now out of necessity, could be an issue with a rematch, but I like the concept and hope the Dutchmen make it to this game this year(of course I can't encourage anything like the LL championship)...based on the family reference , I am concerned that you are not passing the D3/LL/Dutchmen Football intensity/legacy to the little dlipers ???
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Bombers798891

So am I correct in assuming this is not optional for teams, like the ECAC's were?

@d3jason

Wondering if third place teams could still take a ECAC game?

ITH radio

I could see RPI going to an ECAC game if they didn't finish in the top 2. They can afford it and have had success with those bowl games. SLU and HOB have opted out for years. Not sure what Union or UofR would do if they qualified.
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Pat Coleman

Quote from: @d3jason on July 10, 2017, 02:01:06 PM
Wondering if third place teams could still take a ECAC game?

It sounds that way, yes. Not sure how many will opt to, but it appears the option is there.
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Bombers798891

Ithaca's home schedule in 2017: Cortland, Union, Fisher, Hobart, and Alfred. It's identical to the 2015 schedule except for Union, who was nice enough to visit two years in a row.

I'm bummed. The Bombers are in this new conference and, for an overwhelming majority of their fans, they're not going to see anything they haven't in the last few years. I know, they'll get RPI and Rochester at home next year, but from a fan perspective, this is a little like when it's your birthday, and your spouse says your gift is coming, but won't be here for a few days.

I'm not blaming anyone, don't get me wrong. I know schedules are tough to put together, but it's just a bit of a bummer to not get to see new teams at home for a year.

ITH radio

#49371
I get that - fortunately Bart was able to get Coach Yoder and his Hornets up to Geneva and opening with Brockport at the Boz is a nice change of pace instead of the annual thumping of Dickinson (well, since 2010 anyway, the series was pretty competitive up until them).

Switching gears, I've heard IC's defense being potentially "Top 25" caliber this season. Looks like only three starters (based on the final bx anyway) graduated, so that's a lot of talent coming back this season. What do you think Bombers?

Also, am I reading right that IC has 9 coming back on O (i.e., only Shafer & Vandenbos graduated)?
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HansenRatings

Quote from: ITH radio on July 13, 2017, 01:11:11 PM
Switching gears, I've heard IC's defense being potentially "Top 25" caliber this season. Looks like only three starters (based on the final bx anyway) graduated, so that's a lot of talent coming back this season. What do you think Bombers?

Also, am I reading right that IC has 9 coming back on O (i.e., only Shafer & Vandenbos graduated)?

If they're only graduating three seniors, this number can only go up (& points/game go down) this preseason:

Follow me on Twitter. I post fun graphs sometimes. @LogHanRatings

Bombers798891

Quote from: ITH radio on July 13, 2017, 01:11:11 PM
I get that - fortunately Bart was able to get Coach Yoder and his Hornets up to Geneva and opening with Brockport at the Boz is a nice change of pace instead of the annual thumping of Dickinson (well, since 2010 anyway, the series was pretty competitive up until them).

Switching gears, I've heard IC's defense being potentially "Top 25" caliber this season. Looks like only three starters (based on the final bx anyway) graduated, so that's a lot of talent coming back this season. What do you think Bombers?

Also, am I reading right that IC has 9 coming back on O (i.e., only Shafer & Vandenbos graduated)?

I would put little stock in the 9 returning offensive starters. To begin with, one of the non-returners plays the most important position. Second, Swanstrom has said he wants to run the spread. Mike Welch, of course, did not. He also said he will build around his players. So, what does that all mean? For example, do fullbacks like Helmkamp and Yule have a role in his offense? If Swanstrom wants to use four WR, that's going to require a freshman. And maybe this offense requires a different type of OL?

I think I've said this before, but offense is simply going to be an unknown until we actually see them line up. Welch and Swanstrom could not have run more different styles.


Jonny Utah

Quote from: Bombers798891 on July 13, 2017, 02:15:19 PM
Quote from: ITH radio on July 13, 2017, 01:11:11 PM
I get that - fortunately Bart was able to get Coach Yoder and his Hornets up to Geneva and opening with Brockport at the Boz is a nice change of pace instead of the annual thumping of Dickinson (well, since 2010 anyway, the series was pretty competitive up until them).

Switching gears, I've heard IC's defense being potentially "Top 25" caliber this season. Looks like only three starters (based on the final bx anyway) graduated, so that's a lot of talent coming back this season. What do you think Bombers?

Also, am I reading right that IC has 9 coming back on O (i.e., only Shafer & Vandenbos graduated)?

I would put little stock in the 9 returning offensive starters. To begin with, one of the non-returners plays the most important position. Second, Swanstrom has said he wants to run the spread. Mike Welch, of course, did not. He also said he will build around his players. So, what does that all mean? For example, do fullbacks like Helmkamp and Yule have a role in his offense? If Swanstrom wants to use four WR, that's going to require a freshman. And maybe this offense requires a different type of OL?

I think I've said this before, but offense is simply going to be an unknown until we actually see them line up. Welch and Swanstrom could not have run more different styles.

Yes I agree.  The good thing is that IC has always used fullbacks that can catch, and many spread offenses these days use "H" back type players to block backside DEs and/or release into routes.  you can also always put a fullback on the line as a TE.

The big question I have is are they (or do they) have a quarterback that can run (or is a running QB even part of Swarnstrom's plan?)

Bombers798891

Quote from: Jonny "Utes" Utah on July 13, 2017, 02:26:07 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on July 13, 2017, 02:15:19 PM
Quote from: ITH radio on July 13, 2017, 01:11:11 PM
I get that - fortunately Bart was able to get Coach Yoder and his Hornets up to Geneva and opening with Brockport at the Boz is a nice change of pace instead of the annual thumping of Dickinson (well, since 2010 anyway, the series was pretty competitive up until them).

Switching gears, I've heard IC's defense being potentially "Top 25" caliber this season. Looks like only three starters (based on the final bx anyway) graduated, so that's a lot of talent coming back this season. What do you think Bombers?

Also, am I reading right that IC has 9 coming back on O (i.e., only Shafer & Vandenbos graduated)?

I would put little stock in the 9 returning offensive starters. To begin with, one of the non-returners plays the most important position. Second, Swanstrom has said he wants to run the spread. Mike Welch, of course, did not. He also said he will build around his players. So, what does that all mean? For example, do fullbacks like Helmkamp and Yule have a role in his offense? If Swanstrom wants to use four WR, that's going to require a freshman. And maybe this offense requires a different type of OL?

I think I've said this before, but offense is simply going to be an unknown until we actually see them line up. Welch and Swanstrom could not have run more different styles.

Yes I agree.  The good thing is that IC has always used fullbacks that can catch, and many spread offenses these days use "H" back type players to block backside DEs and/or release into routes.  you can also always put a fullback on the line as a TE.

The big question I have is are they (or do they) have a quarterback that can run (or is a running QB even part of Swarnstrom's plan?)

I've always felt that Welch never utilized his QBs mobility at all. You don't need to be Tyler Johnson, but I love me some bootlegs, or the sprint out/throw back type plays. I'd be willing to bet Swanstrom's going to do more with that than Welch did.

ITH radio

#49376
Good points. The Welch line up seemed like the old school 2 WR, single TE with FB and RB, power I type (not unlike the offense Coach DeWall ran when he was at Hobart before Coach Drach installed a 3-4 WR sets all lot more of the time).

I would think a mobile QB would be part of the plan, especially when you consider Germano (the QB at Hop) was the 2nd leading rusher on their 2016 team with 97 carries for 507 yards and 6 rush TDs.
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Bombers798891

Quote from: ITH radio on July 13, 2017, 01:11:11 PM
I get that - fortunately Bart was able to get Coach Yoder and his Hornets up to Geneva and opening with Brockport at the Boz is a nice change of pace instead of the annual thumping of Dickinson (well, since 2010 anyway, the series was pretty competitive up until them).

Switching gears, I've heard IC's defense being potentially "Top 25" caliber this season. Looks like only three starters (based on the final bx anyway) graduated, so that's a lot of talent coming back this season. What do you think Bombers?

Also, am I reading right that IC has 9 coming back on O (i.e., only Shafer & Vandenbos graduated)?

I don't really know what Top 25 means. I don't mean that rudely, I just don't really see enough of everyone else to have any basis for comparison. I suspect Ithaca will be strong defensively, and very good at linebacker.

HansenRatings

Quote from: Bombers798891 on July 13, 2017, 03:03:57 PM
Quote from: ITH radio on July 13, 2017, 01:11:11 PM
I get that - fortunately Bart was able to get Coach Yoder and his Hornets up to Geneva and opening with Brockport at the Boz is a nice change of pace instead of the annual thumping of Dickinson (well, since 2010 anyway, the series was pretty competitive up until them).

Switching gears, I've heard IC's defense being potentially "Top 25" caliber this season. Looks like only three starters (based on the final bx anyway) graduated, so that's a lot of talent coming back this season. What do you think Bombers?

Also, am I reading right that IC has 9 coming back on O (i.e., only Shafer & Vandenbos graduated)?

I don't really know what Top 25 means. I don't mean that rudely, I just don't really see enough of everyone else to have any basis for comparison. I suspect Ithaca will be strong defensively, and very good at linebacker.

It is a bit of an abstract concept to rate a defense independent of the entire team in general, and I don't think my ratings do anywhere close to a perfect job of removing bias from a team's offense or special teams in its defensive rating, but the gist of the concept is this:

If a perfectly average DIII football team's offense were given average field position on an infinite number of drives against every Division III team, the average number of points Ithaca would be expected to allow would be among the 25 fewest in the nation based on their performance the last four years and the amount of returning starters for this upcoming season.

A bit of an obtuse way of saying it, but that's the essence of a "Top 25" defense to me.
Follow me on Twitter. I post fun graphs sometimes. @LogHanRatings

Bombers798891

Quote from: HansenRatings on July 13, 2017, 04:49:02 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on July 13, 2017, 03:03:57 PM
Quote from: ITH radio on July 13, 2017, 01:11:11 PM
I get that - fortunately Bart was able to get Coach Yoder and his Hornets up to Geneva and opening with Brockport at the Boz is a nice change of pace instead of the annual thumping of Dickinson (well, since 2010 anyway, the series was pretty competitive up until them).

Switching gears, I've heard IC's defense being potentially "Top 25" caliber this season. Looks like only three starters (based on the final bx anyway) graduated, so that's a lot of talent coming back this season. What do you think Bombers?

Also, am I reading right that IC has 9 coming back on O (i.e., only Shafer & Vandenbos graduated)?

I don't really know what Top 25 means. I don't mean that rudely, I just don't really see enough of everyone else to have any basis for comparison. I suspect Ithaca will be strong defensively, and very good at linebacker.

It is a bit of an abstract concept to rate a defense independent of the entire team in general, and I don't think my ratings do anywhere close to a perfect job of removing bias from a team's offense or special teams in its defensive rating, but the gist of the concept is this:

If a perfectly average DIII football team's offense were given average field position on an infinite number of drives against every Division III team, the average number of points Ithaca would be expected to allow would be among the 25 fewest in the nation based on their performance the last four years and the amount of returning starters for this upcoming season.

A bit of an obtuse way of saying it, but that's the essence of a "Top 25" defense to me.

I mean, sure?

I guess it's just hard, and I'm not trying to be a jerk. The difference between IC last year (48th) and the 25th was 2.9 points. How much of that is statistical noise based on garbage time scores, opponent quality, etc? No idea.

Let me put it to you this way: Ithaca's defense could carry a solid offense to a conference title and possibly a playoff win. Think, 2014 Ithaca, but not 2013 (which carried a mediocre offense to one.)