D3 vs. D1-AA, D2 and others

Started by Ralph Turner, August 30, 2006, 07:58:29 AM

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smedindy

Didn't Prairie View get rid of scholarships for a while when they were hemorrhaging cash?

Ralph Turner

Quote from: smedindy on September 06, 2007, 09:48:09 AM
Didn't Prairie View get rid of scholarships for a while when they were hemorrhaging cash?
The year was 1998.  Prairie View was still a member of the Southwestern Athletic Conference (SWAC).

I cannot comment on the number of scholarships that they were awarding at the time.

smedindy

They're still in the SWAC. That was at the end of the run where they may have been the worst college program of all time in any division, losing 80 straight.

I can't find any confirmation that they were without scholarships at that point in time. They have them now, but I think they had to do without for a while as they were bereft of funds.


The Roop

#33
Quote from: K-Mack on September 06, 2007, 05:49:13 AM
Very rare is the I-AA scholarship team that plays a D3, for obvious reasons.

I've been doing this feature in ATN for the past two years, I think, you could go back and look if you really cared.

I think the La Crosse/S.D. State one from last year is one of the few.

While UW-Lax/S.D. St. isn't a bad example it's probably not the best. S.D. St. is still going through it's provisional status so they haven't had time to "stack" their roster just yet.

My two cents says that a non-scholarship 1-AA isn't much different than a D3 anyway. Except for enrollment and stadium size; if that. For example lots of the teams in the Pioneer Football League (past and present) competed as D3s prior to the 1991 rule change requiring schools to compete as D1s in all sports or drop a level basically. It's still nice to see the D3s pick up some wins though and does provide for some interesting conversation.
Ist Ihre Tochter achtzehn bitte

Knightstalker

Quote from: The Roop on September 06, 2007, 01:16:42 PM
Quote from: K-Mack on September 06, 2007, 05:49:13 AM
Very rare is the I-AA scholarship team that plays a D3, for obvious reasons.

I've been doing this feature in ATN for the past two years, I think, you could go back and look if you really cared.

I think the La Crosse/S.D. State one from last year is one of the few.

While UW-Lax/S.D. St. isn't a bad example it's probably not the best. S.D. St. is still going through it's provisional status so they haven't had time to "stack" their roster just yet.

My two cents says that a non-scholarship 1-AA isn't much different than a D3 anyway. Except for enrollment and stadium size; if that. For example lots of the teams in the Pioneer Football League (past and present) competed as D3s prior to the 1991 rule change requiring schools to compete as D1s in all sports or drop a level basically. It's still nice to see the D3s pick up some wins though and does provide for some interesting conversation.

Some of the MAAC teams were also D-3 back then, I know St. Peters was.

"In the end we will survive rather than perish not because we accumulate comfort and luxury but because we accumulate wisdom"  Colonel Jack Jacobs US Army (Ret).

The Roop

I'm sure there are other schools that competed similarly, but what made me think of the PFL is the fact that D1 Dayton ended Augustanas run of D3 National Championships in football.
Ist Ihre Tochter achtzehn bitte

K-Mack

#36
Quote from: The Roop on September 06, 2007, 01:16:42 PM
Quote from: K-Mack on September 06, 2007, 05:49:13 AM
Very rare is the I-AA scholarship team that plays a D3, for obvious reasons.

I've been doing this feature in ATN for the past two years, I think, you could go back and look if you really cared.

I think the La Crosse/S.D. State one from last year is one of the few.

While UW-Lax/S.D. St. isn't a bad example it's probably not the best. S.D. St. is still going through it's provisional status so they haven't had time to "stack" their roster just yet.

Well, it came from one of the three toughest leagues in Division II, so it's still a quality win, but I see what you're saying.

If you have a better example, I'm all ears.


Quote from: The Roop on September 06, 2007, 01:16:42 PM
My two cents says that a non-scholarship 1-AA isn't much different than a D3 anyway. Except for enrollment and stadium size; if that. For example lots of the teams in the Pioneer Football League (past and present) competed as D3s prior to the 1991 rule change requiring schools to compete as D1s in all sports or drop a level basically. It's still nice to see the D3s pick up some wins though and does provide for some interesting conversation.

Most of that's true.

The fact that these I-AAs don't offer scholarships and schedule D3 schools give them a lot in common with an official D3.

But we generally are dealing with bigger schools with stronger athletic departments (although you have to wonder about football's place in their depts.)

Again, you know, you make of it what you will, the D3 vs. I-AA or II comparisons. I list them to educate folks on who these teams on the schedule are.

My opinion has always been that a good D3 will have several kids who could've played I-AA, while a I-AA will have a full roster full, obviously. I think there is some crossover, and the Pioneer League and the A-10/CAA being the same classification would be something of a misnomer, if only the OAC and IBFC were too. In other words, there's a wide range of talent levels, commitments to football, etc. under the labels "D3" and "I-AA" to begin with, so a comparision that only scratches the surface is probably flawed to begin with.

Former author, Around the Nation ('01-'13)
Managing Editor, Kickoff
Voter, Top 25/Play of the Week/Gagliardi Trophy/Liberty Mutual Coach of the Year
Nastradamus, Triple Take
and one of the two voices behind the sonic #d3fb nerdery that is the ATN Podcast.

The Roop

K-Mack: The Mount Union of the message board... That's Friggin Awesome !
Ist Ihre Tochter achtzehn bitte

K-Mack

Quote from: The Roop on September 07, 2007, 11:58:20 AM
K-Mack: The Mount Union of the message board... That's Friggin Awesome !

Thanks. It's probably not actually true, but it sounds cool.
Former author, Around the Nation ('01-'13)
Managing Editor, Kickoff
Voter, Top 25/Play of the Week/Gagliardi Trophy/Liberty Mutual Coach of the Year
Nastradamus, Triple Take
and one of the two voices behind the sonic #d3fb nerdery that is the ATN Podcast.

K-Mack

I got 0-4 today vs. D2. and 0-1 vs. I-AA (Butler over Hanover)

Missouri-Rolla and Ouachita Baptist are middling teams from tough D2 conferences playing middling teams (Stout & ETBU) from tough D3 conferences. UNC Pembroke is a D2 startup playing another Carolina team in Gboro, and WOU/Linfield is an annual Oregon grudge match (or what have you)

Sounds like they were all even matchups with regard to the teams' standing in D2 and D3 and we got blanked.

So far so bad (but not completely unexpected)
Former author, Around the Nation ('01-'13)
Managing Editor, Kickoff
Voter, Top 25/Play of the Week/Gagliardi Trophy/Liberty Mutual Coach of the Year
Nastradamus, Triple Take
and one of the two voices behind the sonic #d3fb nerdery that is the ATN Podcast.

Pat Coleman

Keith,

We ranked ETBU No. 123 out of 238, which is below the halfway point. If you meant middling within the ASC, I don't think that's true.
Publisher. Questions? Check our FAQ for D3f, D3h.
Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

K-Mack

Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 09, 2007, 10:48:45 AM
Keith,

We ranked ETBU No. 123 out of 238, which is below the halfway point. If you meant middling within the ASC, I don't think that's true.

Sort of meant it as a general term, I didn't give it much thought. I guess since they won the conference as recently as 2003, I don't consider them a bottom-feeder, but they're also not a consistent contender.

Do with that what you will, oh fellow picker of nits.
Former author, Around the Nation ('01-'13)
Managing Editor, Kickoff
Voter, Top 25/Play of the Week/Gagliardi Trophy/Liberty Mutual Coach of the Year
Nastradamus, Triple Take
and one of the two voices behind the sonic #d3fb nerdery that is the ATN Podcast.

smedindy

I'll add my nits and 123 out of 238, while below the halfway point, is middling since it's just a skosh UNDER halfway.

Pat Coleman

But not middling for the ASC. It's bottoming for the ASC.
Publisher. Questions? Check our FAQ for D3f, D3h.
Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

Ralph Turner

Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 10, 2007, 10:40:58 AM
But not middling for the ASC. It's bottoming for the ASC.
I did not want to divulge the Kickoff 2007 rankings of the ASC teams, but I was quite pleased that the bottom of the ASC was considered to be in the 3rd quintile of D3.