2019 Pool C

Started by MRMIKESMITH, October 21, 2019, 03:03:33 PM

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AO

Quote from: HSCTiger74 on December 09, 2019, 06:30:49 PM
Quote from: AO on December 09, 2019, 03:07:19 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on December 09, 2019, 01:52:31 PM
Quote from: bluestreak66 on December 09, 2019, 01:42:15 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on December 09, 2019, 01:31:55 PM
Quote from: USee on December 07, 2019, 10:56:56 PM
I seem to recall there being some folks who argued the last team in the field, or any pool C team really has no realistic chance to win the Stagg. I may be misremembering this discussion but if that's the case, this year may be the year that 2 Pool C's end up playing for the Stagg.

I don't think I've said that Pool C teams don't have a chance to win the championship.  I have repeatedly said things like this:

Quote from: wally_wabash on November 07, 2019, 02:46:09 PM
To date, even with the limited number of at-large bids, I don't think anybody can reasonably point to one single instance where the size of the field excluded a team that would be considered a contender to win the tournament.

My position on the issue has not changed through three rounds of this tournament.
I respectfully disagree on this point. I do believe based on the way Mulhenberg has handled their first three rounds that Susquehanna could have made some noise in this tournament. I don't think Mulhenberg winning the championship is totally far fetched at this point, and if they do, there will have been a 9-1 team whose only loss was in OT to the champions excluded from the playoffs. I do generally agree that never before has a true potential contender been left out, but there is a part of me that feels like this may have been the year.

I understand the sentiment.  Making noise in the tournament and winning the tournament are different things.  I'm talking very specifically about teams that can win that have been left out, and I don't think that's happened this year or in any year. 

Are we sure Susquehanna is even the best team that didn't qualify?  The Top 25 doesn't think so.
Even if Muhlenberg goes on to win the title this year that doesn't necessarily mean they would have beaten Mount Union.  Susquehanna's odds to the win the tournament wouldn't improve that much either.  It's not zero, but it's still very unlikely.

  Maybe I'm slow but I'm not sure what your point is here. How Muhlenberg (or SJU or UWW) would have done against Mt. Union is irrelevant, because North Central already knocked them out. Are you equating that to the irrelevance of the Susquehanna speculation, since they didn't even make the field?
Yeah I think you got it.  If we started the tournament over today with Susquehanna in the field, I still don't think they are a top contender for the title. 

HSCTiger74

Quote from: AO on December 09, 2019, 07:20:37 PM
Quote from: HSCTiger74 on December 09, 2019, 06:30:49 PM
Quote from: AO on December 09, 2019, 03:07:19 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on December 09, 2019, 01:52:31 PM
Quote from: bluestreak66 on December 09, 2019, 01:42:15 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on December 09, 2019, 01:31:55 PM
Quote from: USee on December 07, 2019, 10:56:56 PM
I seem to recall there being some folks who argued the last team in the field, or any pool C team really has no realistic chance to win the Stagg. I may be misremembering this discussion but if that's the case, this year may be the year that 2 Pool C's end up playing for the Stagg.

I don't think I've said that Pool C teams don't have a chance to win the championship.  I have repeatedly said things like this:

Quote from: wally_wabash on November 07, 2019, 02:46:09 PM
To date, even with the limited number of at-large bids, I don't think anybody can reasonably point to one single instance where the size of the field excluded a team that would be considered a contender to win the tournament.

My position on the issue has not changed through three rounds of this tournament.
I respectfully disagree on this point. I do believe based on the way Mulhenberg has handled their first three rounds that Susquehanna could have made some noise in this tournament. I don't think Mulhenberg winning the championship is totally far fetched at this point, and if they do, there will have been a 9-1 team whose only loss was in OT to the champions excluded from the playoffs. I do generally agree that never before has a true potential contender been left out, but there is a part of me that feels like this may have been the year.

I understand the sentiment.  Making noise in the tournament and winning the tournament are different things.  I'm talking very specifically about teams that can win that have been left out, and I don't think that's happened this year or in any year. 

Are we sure Susquehanna is even the best team that didn't qualify?  The Top 25 doesn't think so.
Even if Muhlenberg goes on to win the title this year that doesn't necessarily mean they would have beaten Mount Union.  Susquehanna's odds to the win the tournament wouldn't improve that much either.  It's not zero, but it's still very unlikely.

  Maybe I'm slow but I'm not sure what your point is here. How Muhlenberg (or SJU or UWW) would have done against Mt. Union is irrelevant, because North Central already knocked them out. Are you equating that to the irrelevance of the Susquehanna speculation, since they didn't even make the field?
Yeah I think you got it.  If we started the tournament over today with Susquehanna in the field, I still don't think they are a top contender for the title.

  Okay, thanks.
TANSTAAFL

smedindy

Susquehanna and John Carroll may have won a game, possibly two. Yes, Susquehanna was close against Muhlenberg, but the Mules seem to have rocketed up their play after that game and after Ursinus went ahead of them 14-7.

From that point in their Ursinus game forward (losing 14-7), Muhlenberg has given up just 48 points.


art76

We've got ourselves a Pool C Stagg Bowl. Interesting. Gotta wonder how this will all play out next year, and the coming years, as Pool C teams are selected in the future.
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You have a body. - C.S. Lewis

MUC57

Quote from: art76 on December 15, 2019, 09:13:07 AM
We've got ourselves a Pool C Stagg Bowl. Interesting. Gotta wonder how this will all play out next year, and the coming years, as Pool C teams are selected in the future.

art76

Thanks for pointing that out. Never occurred to me that was the situation.
As to the impact on future pool C selections - hmmmm! 🤔
I'm old! I get mixed up and I forget things! Go Everybody! 🏈 ☠

wally_wabash

Quote from: art76 on December 15, 2019, 09:13:07 AM
We've got ourselves a Pool C Stagg Bowl. Interesting. Gotta wonder how this will all play out next year, and the coming years, as Pool C teams are selected in the future.

The criteria for Pool C selection is composed entirely of data from the current regular season.  The one spot where previous year's results can be leveraged are when seeding undefeated teams- undefeated teams are (generally) not Pool C teams, so committees wouldn't be able to look back for data from 2019 when selecting 2020's Pool C teams. 
"Nothing in the world is more expensive than free."- The Deacon of HBO's The Wire

Ralph Turner

Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 07, 2019, 10:26:19 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 01, 2019, 12:25:15 AM
Quote from: art76 on November 30, 2019, 10:24:17 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 23, 2019, 08:03:03 PM
Quote from: jamtod on November 23, 2019, 07:16:00 PM
Pool C squads go 4-1, only loss is Redlands to UMHB
UMHB 43 Redlands 14

UWW 35 Monmouth 10

Wartburg 41 Hope 3

NCC 51 Wabash 14

Wesley 58 Framingham State 14

Thought you would have posted the update by now, but Pool C was 2-2 this weekend, with both UWW and NCC left on opposite sides of the bracket and could not meet until the Stagg.

NCC 59 UMU 52

UWW 41 Wartburg 28

Del Valley 45  Wesley 10


Week #3 Pool C 2-0

NCC 31 Del Valley 14

UWW 26 UMHB 7

Week #4 Pool C 2-0

NCC 45 Muhlenberg 14

UWW 35 SJU 32

Pool C Final Record - 11-4


Ralph Turner

The fact that we have a Pool C Stagg Bowl is not surprising when we consider that each team comes from a Top 5 conference, and/or maybe the 2 best conferences in D3.

smedindy

Even though we have a "C" Stagg Bowl, I don't think the 'last teams out' would have made it this far. Maybe round 2.

Pat Coleman

Quote from: art76 on December 15, 2019, 09:13:07 AM
We've got ourselves a Pool C Stagg Bowl. Interesting. Gotta wonder how this will all play out next year, and the coming years, as Pool C teams are selected in the future.

I think they already select Pool C with this in mind -- trying to take the highest quality teams regardless of how they actually measure up in SOS and the like.
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Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

Inkblot

Conspiracy theory time: Wisconsin–Whitewater intentionally tanked against Oshkosh in an attempt to keep North Central from getting a Pool C bid.  ;)
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MRMIKESMITH

We are going to see quite a lot of conference rematches and short distance match-ups this upcoming season with the NCAA cutting the budget, because no NCAA Tournament.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Quote from: FANOFD3 on March 26, 2020, 06:43:04 PM
We are going to see quite a lot of conference rematches and short distance match-ups this upcoming season with the NCAA cutting the budget, because no NCAA Tournament.

No. Not accurate. The money and the deficit NCAA announced pertaining to DIII is just for this academic/fiscal year. That includes all the championships already played (and paid for) and other expenses seen every year.

The fact half of basketball and other winter sports plus none of the spring sports meant the hit wasn't as brutal. ALSO, there is a reserve set aside for situations JUST like this. It was created, I believe, after the budget tightening in 2013/14 which did impact the championships in nearly all sports (especially the highest cost ones). It has something like $16m set aside for occasions like 2013/14 (when the TV money isn't given out at the same rate as previously per contact or change in contracts) or rainy days.

The shortfall is for JUST this academic/fiscal year ... as I've been told, next year's budget will be what is already planned due it being crafted with the TV money (and other revenue) expected next year.

I reported this yesterday on Twitter (@d3hoopsville) and responded to some tweets today (@davemchugh).
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

Pat Coleman

But let's be realistic -- even with the budget deficit applying to 2019-20, it would be wise to consider the possibility that expenditures might be more conservative in 2020-21. If we're spending the rainy day fund now, as we should, I'm sure the powers that be will want to start rebuilding it.

I would not be surprised at all to see championship expenditures played closer to the vest in 2020-21.
Publisher. Questions? Check our FAQ for D3f, D3h.
Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 27, 2020, 03:16:31 PM
But let's be realistic -- even with the budget deficit applying to 2019-20, it would be wise to consider the possibility that expenditures might be more conservative in 2020-21. If we're spending the rainy day fund now, as we should, I'm sure the powers that be will want to start rebuilding it.

I would not be surprised at all to see championship expenditures played closer to the vest in 2020-21.

Yes ... but they put money into the reserve every year from the budget as I understand it. Do they put more in? Possibly, but I suspect they will do everything they can to avoid having that cause changes to championships. Would they maybe limit one flight? Possibly, but we wait for that to happen every year. That's nothing new.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.