FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

Started by admin, August 16, 2005, 04:58:09 AM

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nescac1

#15645
So Trinity has brought in 67 guys in two years, for a sport with a 75-man roster cap?  Unreal.  That means something like one out of eight underclass men at Trinity are football recruits. 

Several NESCAC schools (including Williams, making its win over Trinity all the more miraculous) had fewer guys than that on the entire roster last season!  It makes the biggest difference when it comes to injuries - always a huge issue in football - and attrition.  Williams, for example, had top line talent that made it competitive with any team last season, as it showed early in the season.  But by the end of the year, a starting TB, QB, OT, WR, MLB, CB, and OLB/DE, if memory serves, all were out for the season with injuries (granted, while football inevitably involves a lot of injuries, that is more bad luck than usual, especially since the MLB and QB were two of the best players in NESCAC), and Williams with its small roster just didn't have the bodies needed to compete down the stretch.  Bowdoin, while lacking in the level of first-line talent Williams had, was also crushed by injuries last season, contributing to its struggles in a major way. 

Of course, no team wants to lose guys to injury, but Trinity's second-string can come right in at almost every spot without missing a beat, as all of them would be starters at several NESCAC programs.  It's hard to imagine the Bants losing very many games over the next three seasons in light of the last two classes brought in ... on the other hand, I wonder if all the emphasis on football recruiting over the past few years will start to hurt Trinity a bit in some other sports (other than squash, at which Trinity continues to dominate).  Trinity still only get 72 TIPS per year, so each additional football admit who is a high-level recruit means one less recruit for other sports ...

OldCardinal


[/quote]

Frank Hauser is the OC at Tufts and was the head coach at Wesleyan from '92-'09. I don't recall if he moved directly into that role after being fired by Wes. Has anyone besides Mike Whalen served as head coach at two different NESCAC programs?[/quote]


Vic Gatto was the head coach at Bates before becoming the HC at Tufts back in the 70's.

Trin9-0

Quote from: nescac1 on May 08, 2019, 10:10:51 AM
So Trinity has brought in 67 guys in two years, for a sport with a 75-man roster cap?  Unreal.  That means something like one out of eight underclass men at Trinity are football recruits. 

Several NESCAC schools (including Williams, making its win over Trinity all the more miraculous) had fewer guys than that on the entire roster last season!  It makes the biggest difference when it comes to injuries - always a huge issue in football - and attrition.  Williams, for example, had top line talent that made it competitive with any team last season, as it showed early in the season.  But by the end of the year, a starting TB, QB, OT, WR, MLB, CB, and OLB/DE, if memory serves, all were out for the season with injuries (granted, while football inevitably involves a lot of injuries, that is more bad luck than usual, especially since the MLB and QB were two of the best players in NESCAC), and Williams with its small roster just didn't have the bodies needed to compete down the stretch.  Bowdoin, while lacking in the level of first-line talent Williams had, was also crushed by injuries last season, contributing to its struggles in a major way. 

Of course, no team wants to lose guys to injury, but Trinity's second-string can come right in at almost every spot without missing a beat, as all of them would be starters at several NESCAC programs.  It's hard to imagine the Bants losing very many games over the next three seasons in light of the last two classes brought in ... on the other hand, I wonder if all the emphasis on football recruiting over the past few years will start to hurt Trinity a bit in some other sports (other than squash, at which Trinity continues to dominate).  Trinity still only get 72 TIPS per year, so each additional football admit who is a high-level recruit means one less recruit for other sports ...

It's important to remember that Trinity had just 15 seniors last year, and will have only 13 this season so the larger than normal recruiting classes the past two years shouldn't be totally unexpected. Also, last season only 28 of the 35 incoming first year players made the final 76 man roster. It has been noted multiple times, by those who have gone through the recruiting process at Trinity, that not even recruited players are guaranteed a roster spot as freshmen. That clearly hasn't impacted the number of football players who want to try and continue their playing careers in Hartford.

Trinity has distinct recruiting advantages which include (but are not limited to):

  • A historical and tradition of winning combined with a record of recent dominance (and all the benefits that accompany that success)
  • Strong philanthropic and career networking support from alumni
  • Slightly lower admission standard, so a player may be accepted at Trinity without additional consideration, whereas the same student may need to be a tip at another school.
Your argument that larger numbers of incoming football players will hurt the performance of other sports is based on the assumption that Trinity is using more than their allotted number of tips on football at the expense of other sports. There's no evidence that is taking place and incidentally the Bantams' men's teams have been doing quite well. In addition to football, the men's hockey, golf, and squash teams all won NESCAC titles this year. The wrestling, men's track & field, and lacrosse teams have all improved significantly over the past few seasons, and there's been no noticeable drop off in basketball or baseball who are traditionally very competitive.

You're absolutely right that Trinity's depth is a huge factor in their success. I'd have to imagine, given the resurgence at Williams, that the Ephs won't have to be concerned with depth for much longer.
NESCAC CHAMPIONS: 1974, 1978, 1980, 1983, 1987, 1991, 1993, 1996, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2008, 2012, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2022, 2023
UNDEFEATED SEASONS: 1911, 1915, 1934, 1949, 1954, 1955, 1993, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2008, 2012, 2016, 2022

amh63

OldCardinal.....wow, haven't heard the name "Vic Gatto"  in some time!   He was a fine running back for Harvard in my days.  What happen to him after Tufts?
Plus K for the memories.

lumbercat

#15649
Vic Gatto was the youngest head coach in the NCAA in 1973 when Bates AD Bob Hatch brought him to Bates to rebuild the Bates program that had faded from their dominant football position in Maine in the mid 60's.
Gatto restructured the program.....his best move was hiring Web Harrison as the DC at Bates. Harrison, a decorated Marine veteran, was the DC at Boston University for a BU team that played San Diego State in the Pasadena Bowl in 1969.
Together they rebuilt the Bates Football program.
In 1978 Gatto moved to Tufts. After a few years at Tufts he went to Davidson which was the last stop in his coaching career.



JEFFFAN

Trinity SAT score average - 1320
Willians SAT score - 1468

If the definition of slight (your italics) is 148 points , God bless you!


Quote from: Trin8-0 on May 10, 2019, 04:53:12 PM
Quote from: nescac1 on May 08, 2019, 10:10:51 AM
So Trinity has brought in 67 guys in two years, for a sport with a 75-man roster cap?  Unreal.  That means something like one out of eight underclass men at Trinity are football recruits. 

Several NESCAC schools (including Williams, making its win over Trinity all the more miraculous) had fewer guys than that on the entire roster last season!  It makes the biggest difference when it comes to injuries - always a huge issue in football - and attrition.  Williams, for example, had top line talent that made it competitive with any team last season, as it showed early in the season.  But by the end of the year, a starting TB, QB, OT, WR, MLB, CB, and OLB/DE, if memory serves, all were out for the season with injuries (granted, while football inevitably involves a lot of injuries, that is more bad luck than usual, especially since the MLB and QB were two of the best players in NESCAC), and Williams with its small roster just didn't have the bodies needed to compete down the stretch.  Bowdoin, while lacking in the level of first-line talent Williams had, was also crushed by injuries last season, contributing to its struggles in a major way. 

Of course, no team wants to lose guys to injury, but Trinity's second-string can come right in at almost every spot without missing a beat, as all of them would be starters at several NESCAC programs.  It's hard to imagine the Bants losing very many games over the next three seasons in light of the last two classes brought in ... on the other hand, I wonder if all the emphasis on football recruiting over the past few years will start to hurt Trinity a bit in some other sports (other than squash, at which Trinity continues to dominate).  Trinity still only get 72 TIPS per year, so each additional football admit who is a high-level recruit means one less recruit for other sports ...

It's important to remember that Trinity had just 15 seniors last year, and will have only 13 this season so the larger than normal recruiting classes the past two years shouldn't be totally unexpected. Also, last season only 28 of the 35 incoming first year players made the final 76 man roster. It has been noted multiple times, by those who have gone through the recruiting process at Trinity, that not even recruited players are guaranteed a roster spot as freshmen. That clearly hasn't impacted the number of football players who want to try and continue their playing careers in Hartford.

Trinity has distinct recruiting advantages which include (but are not limited to):

  • A historical and tradition of winning combined with a record of recent dominance (and all the benefits that accompany that success)
  • Strong philanthropic and career networking support from alumni
  • Slightly lower admission standard, so a player may be accepted at Trinity without additional consideration, whereas the same student may need to be a tip at another school.
Your argument that larger numbers of incoming football players will hurt the performance of other sports is based on the assumption that Trinity is using more than their allotted number of tips on football at the expense of other sports. There's no evidence that is taking place and incidentally the Bantams' men's teams have been doing quite well. In addition to football, the men's hockey, golf, and squash teams all won NESCAC titles this year. The wrestling, men's track & field, and lacrosse teams have all improved significantly over the past few seasons, and there's been no noticeable drop off in basketball or baseball who are traditionally very competitive.

You're absolutely right that Trinity's depth is a huge factor in their success. I'd have to imagine, given the resurgence at Williams, that the Ephs won't have to be concerned with depth for much longer.

amh63

Slow times wrt football news.  Graduation for Amherst on 26th of this month.  Seniors in all sports turning to other areas.  Amherst's football recruits will appear in the Fall...soon enough for me.
Some interesting news found as I "troll" the Nescac websites.  The Bowdoin Orient...school newspaper..discusses the increased recruiting budgets by the Maine schools in particular and the Nescac schools in general. Seems the "Lid" was removed recently.  Schools can now send more coaches around country for student athletes.  Info shown indicates that Bates has greatly taken advantages of the situation.

bantamweight

Quote from: JEFFFAN on May 11, 2019, 12:00:31 PM
Trinity SAT score average - 1320
Willians SAT score - 1468

If the definition of slight (your italics) is 148 points , God bless you!

Trinity is test optional, so there's no way you know that. Sounds more like jealousy to me.

413Local

"Slightly"????   For years, everyone in New England has known that Trinity can get kids in that NO OTHER NESCAC school can even think about recruiting.  As the Wesleyan alum grump like's to say: "It is what it is."   I suppose we should applaud you for your grudging quasi-admission, but I don't even think Coach Devaney would try to argue against this fact.  There are sub-1000 SAT kids on his roster.

bantamweight

Quote from: 413Local on May 12, 2019, 12:55:58 PM
As the Wesleyan alum grump like's to say: "It is what it is."

People say that when they've given up.

QuoteThere are sub-1000 SAT kids on his roster.

Prove it.

lumbercat

#15655
I know at least 2 recent Trinity recruits with sub 1000 SATS. Their only NESCAC acceptance was Trinity. I also know a recent recruit to Trinity with great grades who had his pick to any of the NESCACS and chose Trinity for their winning Football tradition. His final decision was between Amherst and Trinity. His financial package was much better at Trinity.

I have known others in the past at Trinity who were borderline academic recruits but made the grade academically and graduated on time thanks to the Trinity Football tutor program. Trinity deserves great credit for taking chances on some lower academic candidates in their winning football program. They have always been willing to recruit good athletes with lower academic credentials who have thrived in the tutorial program they provide.  To my knowledge it is the only formalized program of its kind in the NESCAC.

Trinity does more to to maintain a winning Football tradition than any other school in the NESCAC. They deserve their great winning tradition.

amh63

It's been a WET Spring in my neck of the woods.....delaying some gardening that I enjoy.  Been watching a lot of lacrosse....D1 and D3.  A sort of Football in the Md area....and in upper NY.  A good friend of mine and I would spend time watching D3 lacrosse at JHU, his Alma mater.  Yes, it was women lacrosse and Amherst was playing.  JHU plays D1 on the men side.  Anyway, his late aunt was married to the famous Syracuse football coach that had Jim Brown on his team.  It was said that Jim Brown liked lacrosse better than football and was a super lacrosse player.  My friend has a classmate/frat brother named Bloomberg.  I'm digressing.  Anyway, I'm posting here to congratulate Bates' crew teams in winning the CAC titles....again!  Un of Michigan had crew teams competing.
I posted in the past that Amherst and Trinity had brothers playing against each other on the football field.  All were star players to boot.  Parents would cross the field at half time to change their seats.
Discussion of SAT scores, etc. is mute when the recruits/players finish college.  Agree with Lumbercat.

413Local

[quote
Discussion of SAT scores, etc. is mute when the recruits/players finish college.  Agree with Lumbercat.
[/quote]      While post-college graduation, the discussion of SAT scores may be moot, when discussing reasons why Trinity is able to land recruits that other NESCAC schools cannot, it does seem rather relevant.  Perhaps the BBC Maine schools might consider that approach for a much needed shot in the arm to their programs that seem on the upswing?

Trin9-0

The perception among many posters that Trinity's roster is comprised of players who couldn't get into any other NESCAC school is absurd. There are countless examples of players being recruited by multiple NESCAC schools with varying admissions results. For example; a source with firsthand knowledge shared with me two separate accounts of recruits who were denied at Trinity but accepted into Tufts this year.
NESCAC CHAMPIONS: 1974, 1978, 1980, 1983, 1987, 1991, 1993, 1996, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2008, 2012, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2022, 2023
UNDEFEATED SEASONS: 1911, 1915, 1934, 1949, 1954, 1955, 1993, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2008, 2012, 2016, 2022

NBC93

Concerning admissions at Trinity: I don't think anecdotal tales of individual recruits tilts the scales much for either side. The reality seems to be that each school makes choices from year to year, staff to staff, and administration to administration, that affects the on-field product. Trinity chooses to work within the league rules at one end of the spectrum and the CBB schools operate toward the other.
I'll ad my two cents worth of anecdote, I have first-hand knowledge of a player that was recruited heavily by several NESCAC schools and MIT. He was denied by MIT and a Big-10 school that was not recruiting him for football, but he was accepted to one of the top tier academic schools in the NESCAC.
None of that changes what I believe to be a fact that Trinity has a different model that enables good athletes to play and succeed in a premier academic conference at a great school. Kudos to them for an obviously unpopular practice from competitors' views, but a highly progressive and optimistic academic and athletic undertaking.
P. S. I do not wish ill toward any team or school but I do root heavily against the Trinity football team! Just trying to be objective here, though! :)