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Division III football (Post Patterns) => General football => Topic started by: Ralph Turner on August 28, 2005, 10:32:37 PM

Title: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 28, 2005, 10:32:37 PM
Thanks to Jason Dannelly of www.naiafootball.net and Larry of www.lazindex.com who have compiled the D3 vs. NAIA games for 2005.

Here are the games for the weekend of Sep 3rd.

W/E Sept.3     
     

Anderson D3 @ Olivet Nazarene NAIA

Mississippi College D3 vs. Belhaven NAIA

North Park D3 vs. Kentucky Wesleyan NAIA

Principia D3 vs. SW Assemblies of God NAIA

UW-Oshkosh D3 @ William Penn NAIA

Corrections and omissions are appreciated!
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on August 28, 2005, 11:22:08 PM
There's got to be more than that.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on August 28, 2005, 11:23:28 PM
Oh. That's just week 1.

Duh.

So we'll be keeping the running record too ... you or me, Ralph?
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ron Boerger on August 28, 2005, 11:27:10 PM
Ralph/Keith, note that on Sept 17, Concordia-Selma (AL) is an NAIA provisional member (playing Millsaps), according to this article on NAIAfootball.net (http://www.naiafootball.net/article.php?articleID=659).  Don't know whether you want to count it or not, but given how hard it was to get info on Concordia last spring thot you'd like the info.   
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Pat Coleman on August 29, 2005, 12:06:45 AM
Good-ol' Selma.

Don't know what to do with them. Even Millsaps has told me both things on whether Concordia-Selma is an intercollegiate team or a club team.

It's less important to me what their affiliation is and more important whether this is a club team or not.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on August 29, 2005, 01:09:24 AM
Yes, I had recently looked into this because someone had to do the Millsaps capsule.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 29, 2005, 01:26:32 AM
K-Mack, how about by committee.  We can post the scores here, use it as a "staging area" and then you can refer to the board for your expert commentary. :)

The ATN column is one constant feature of D3football.com.  This can be the message board for us fans.  Your final commentary is for the record!
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on August 29, 2005, 01:42:19 AM
Oh,
well at least there's no pressure!

I have no problem compliling the results ... having the list to watch here will be much more efficient than my old way of finding the non-d3 vs. d3 games.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: frank uible on August 30, 2005, 08:55:55 PM
Ralph: I've said this before, but you are an informational wonder to behold.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 04, 2005, 04:15:14 PM
W/E Sept.3     
     

Anderson D3 @ Olivet Nazarene NAIA   Lost 18-33

Mississippi College D3 vs. Belhaven NAIA   Postponed

North Park D3 vs. Kentucky Wesleyan NAIA Won 23-13

Principia D3 vs. SW Assemblies of God NAIA  Lost 13-80

UW-Oshkosh D3 @ William Penn NAIA  Won 31-29

UM-Morris vs. Mayville St ND Lost 8-20

Results: 2-3

Corrections appreciated!

at Valley City State 10, Gustavus Adolphus 7

Results:   2-4
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 04, 2005, 04:45:20 PM
W/E Sept.10  Week #2
     
Anderson D3 @ Taylor NAIA

Cornell IA D3 vs. Iowa Wesleyan NAIA

Greenville D3 @ Trinity International NAIA

Loras D3 @ St Ambrose NAIA

Martin Luther D3 vs. Waldorf NAIA

McDaniel D3 @ Seton Hill NAIA

North Carolina Wesleyan D3 vs. Southern Virginia NAIA

St John's MN D3 @ Northwestern MN NAIA
Am deleting this game as per Johnnie esq.  The NAIA master schedule does not include this one.  Thanks Johnnie esq.

http://www.naia.org/football/schedules/2005/091005.html

Sul Ross St D3 @ SW Assemblies of God NAIA (Sept 9th)

UW-Whitewater D3 vs. St Xavier NAIA
 
Corrections appreciated!
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: johnnie_esq on September 07, 2005, 06:31:50 PM
It's my understanding that Northwestern (MN) is NCAA DIII provisional this year for the first time.  Whether that makes them NAIA still for this count, I'm not sure.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on September 11, 2005, 03:45:33 PM
If it makes you feel better, we officially consider Northwestern down with us, and took that game off the list used in Around the Nation.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 11, 2005, 04:57:22 PM
W/E Sept.10  Week #2
     
Anderson D3 @ Taylor NAIA   Win 52-14

Cornell IA D3 vs. Iowa Wesleyan NAIA   Loss 0-13

Greenville D3 @ Trinity International NAIA   Loss 17-26

Loras D3 @ St Ambrose NAIA   Loss 28-29

Martin Luther D3 vs. Waldorf NAIA   Loss 2-10

McDaniel D3 @ Seton Hill NAIA  Win 28-9

North Carolina Wesleyan D3 vs. Southern Virginia NAIA   Win 36-15

Sul Ross St D3 @ SW Assemblies of God NAIA (Sept 9th)  Win 24-20

UW-Whitewater D3 vs. St Xavier NAIA   Win 34-20.

Record for the week, 5-4.  Record for the year 7-8.

Corrections appreciated.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 11, 2005, 04:59:32 PM
Week 3, Sept 17th

W/E Sept.17     
     

Colorado College D3 vs. Tabor NAIA

Willamette D3 @ Azusa Pacific NAIA
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ron Boerger on September 12, 2005, 06:13:41 PM
I predict PAIN in Willamette's future.

That is one tough preseason schedule.   A D2, one of the top NAIA schools, and the #2 (for now ;D) D3 team. 
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: gordonmann on September 12, 2005, 11:58:23 PM
"I ain't got nothin' against Willamette.  But I pity da foo!"
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 18, 2005, 12:01:46 AM
Week 3, Sept 17th

W/E Sept.17     
     

Colorado College D3 vs. Tabor NAIA   Loss 30-66

Willamette D3 @ Azusa Pacific NAIA   Loss 17-36

Record for the week, 0-2.  Record for the year, 7-10.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 18, 2005, 12:10:49 AM
W/E Sept.24     
     

Greensboro D3 @ Southern Virginia NAIA

Millsaps D3 vs. Belhaven NAIA

UW-Eau Claire D3 @ St Francis IN NAIA

UW-Stevens Point D3 vs. Waldorf NAIA

Corrections appreciated.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 25, 2005, 04:07:06 PM
I am away from my home computer and cannot get reliable internet access.

I will be back by Wednesday night.

Last weekends games:

Greensboro D3 @ Southern Virginia NAIA  Loss 7-35.

Millsaps D3 vs. Belhaven NAIA   Loss 13-30.

UW-Eau Claire D3 @ St Francis IN NAIA   Loss 0-35.

UW-Stevens Point D3 vs. Waldorf NAIA  Win 42-13
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 28, 2005, 08:16:55 PM
This week's games

W/E Oct.1     

UW-Stout D3 vs. Waldorf NAIA

Wesley D3 @ Seton Hill NAIA

Whitworth D3 at Eastern Oregon NAIA   (Thanks cawcdad...I appreciate your keeping tabs on the Lewis and Clark substitute games. :))
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: cawcdad on September 28, 2005, 09:04:17 PM
Ralph,
you can add Whitworth at Eastern Oregon
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 01, 2005, 09:11:13 PM
W/E Oct.1     

UW-Stout D3 vs. Waldorf NAIA  Won 44-3

Wesley D3 @ Seton Hill NAIA  Won 48-10

Whitworth D3 at Eastern Oregon NAIA Lost 14-24

This week's results: 2-1.   This year's results 10-14.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 02, 2005, 01:06:53 AM
W/E Oct.8     
     
Husson D3 @ Southern Virginia NAIA

Willamette D3 vs. Southern Oregon NAIA

Corrections appreciated.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 12, 2005, 07:37:08 PM
W/E Oct.8     
     
Husson D3 @ Southern Virginia NAIA --Canceled by Southern VA.

Willamette D3 vs. Southern Oregon NAIA   Won  34-28 in OT.

Corrections appreciated.

This year 11-14.

My computer crashed and with it the schedule of this week!  Sorry!  The temporary is working poorly.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: wildcat11 on October 12, 2005, 07:55:22 PM
Ralph,

This week:

Southern Oregon (NAIA) vs. Linfield (D3)
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: repete on October 15, 2005, 08:45:38 PM
RT:
Buena Vista beat Waldorf 14-3 today. Should Linfield play as expected and dismantle the often tough but somewhat scuzzy Southern Oregon program, it would be 13-14.

BTW, RT, I'm now subscribing to your favorite national newspaper (cashed in USAir miles for it). It's great as ever, but since the bird died I have nothing to do with their editorial pages. :)
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: repete on October 24, 2005, 04:01:34 AM
K-Mack, FYI,
ATN only had one NAIA-D3 game, but there was also another out west, where PLU beat  Southern Oregon. It was a late add to the schedule. With two wins (Frostburg over Seton Hill), that's 16-14 D3, I think.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on October 27, 2005, 06:21:45 AM
Quote from: repete on October 24, 2005, 04:01:34 AM
K-Mack, FYI,
ATN only had one NAIA-D3 game, but there was also another out west, where PLU beat  Southern Oregon. It was a late add to the schedule. With two wins (Frostburg over Seton Hill), that's 16-14 D3, I think.

Thanks. Lewis & Clark meant we even have to spot-check our schedules. (frizzy-haired smiley)
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 18, 2005, 07:50:27 PM
Mississippi College beat Belhaven, 52-16.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: FPM on December 13, 2005, 01:10:48 PM
So what is the final tally
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: footballfever on December 14, 2005, 03:22:08 PM
Add:
Waldorf 48  Simpson  13  Loss
SW Assemblies  47  Crown 14  Loss
Olivet Nazerene  29  Northwestern College  13   Loss

Should be 19-15 NAIA


The tally is deceiving in that D3 normally plays the weakest NAIA teams or teams that don't offer much in scholarships.  The well funded NAIA teams are much better than D3 as they should be.  NAIA can offer 24 scholarships (Plus as many as they want for non varsity players or redshirts.  Plus lower academic standards for athletes in NAIA allows helps NAIA get more D1 ability players.

Comparing D2 and NAIA would be a better comparison as head to head it is close each year between them.  NAIA has a lot less teams than other divisions now and it makes it harder to compare.  The upper half of NAIA is playing at a average D2 level of play or higher even though NAIA is not what it was in the past. 

Scholarships limits
D1A  85
D1AA  56
D2   36
NAIA 24 (Plus)
D3  0
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: wildcat11 on December 14, 2005, 04:17:03 PM
Quote from: footballfever on December 14, 2005, 03:22:08 PM
The tally is deceiving in that D3 normally plays the weakest NAIA teams or teams that don't offer much in scholarships.  The well funded NAIA teams are much better than D3 as they should be.  NAIA can offer 24 scholarships (Plus as many as they want for non varsity players or redshirts.  Plus lower academic standards for athletes in NAIA allows helps NAIA get more D1 ability players.

Comparing D2 and NAIA would be a better comparison as head to head it is close each year between them.  NAIA has a lot less teams than other divisions now and it makes it harder to compare.  The upper half of NAIA is playing at a average D2 level of play or higher even though NAIA is not what it was in the past. 

Scholarships limits
D1A  85
D1AA  56
D2   36
NAIA 24 (Plus)
D3  0

Fever,

I don't know if you're a NAIA honk but this is the typical crap that NAIA fans try to sell. If you spent any time to take a look at the current health of the NAIA then I have a hard time knowing that someone could type this with a stright face.

Yes, One thing that the NAIA has in common with D2 is the ability to hand out money.  That's about it. 

That's great that NAIA schools "can" hand out 24 scholarships but please list how many programs not named Carroll College do on a year in and year out basis?  There's a big difference between "can" and "do".

Also, please list to us what the upper half of the NAIA schools that play middle of the road DII quality of football? Geneva? Walsh? MidAmerica? Valley City State?   

You are right that the NAIA had it's hey day back in the 70's, 80's and early 90's but that's over now.  You have a few excellent teams (Carroll, St. Francis) but once you get past these teams the bottom falls out pretty fast.

The NAIA is no better in terms of quality of teams that DIII produces.  I can say that because I played in a program that transitioned from the NAIA to DIII and I didn't notice one damn bit of difference.

You put the NAIA top 10 and DIII top 10 into a bracket and some years DIII would get the better of it and other the NAIA would.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 14, 2005, 04:27:10 PM
Quote from: footballfever on December 14, 2005, 03:22:08 PM
The tally is deceiving in that D3 normally plays the weakest NAIA teams or teams that don't offer much in scholarships. 

Much like those stellar programs in D-III you just noted, Crown and Northwestern. If Massey ranked those provisional D-III members in with the rest of D-III, Crown would be #210 and Northwestern #128 out of the 228 schools it measures. (Some listed as D-III are not.)
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 14, 2005, 04:30:38 PM
Lumping all of NAIA into one little box is almost as bad as NAIA pundits saying the NCAA is all about money and not about "character." Those of us at D-III see all of the character and none of the money.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: footballfever on December 14, 2005, 10:38:36 PM
Thats typical D3 talk to say scholarships don't matter? Bull!  Thats how you get talented players in most cases and there is far more individual talent in NAIA than D3 and better overall teams.. By the way I am not a NAIA honk.

I would say just check the at least the top 40-45 teams in NAIA they all offer at least 15 or more scholarships and probably more than half of those the very close to or the full 24 scholarships (some I know offer much more than 24 with the redshirts rule).  A handful of NAIA conferences offer more scholarships than  4-5 / D2 conferences.  Plus I also know more than half of D2 teams offer less than 15 scholarships. Get the picture that NAIA is comparable to average D2 football.  NAIA attracts a lot of D1 talent mostly because of academic standards being lower for athletics. NAIA wins about half there games against D2 competition (check youself) and most games are on the road for NAIA.

NAIA has half as many teams (94) as D3 so I would hope D3 has a few good teams in it.  Overall quality? NAIA is better and the best teams are better in NAIA. 

I would expect a D3 BACKER to try to say D3 is as good and that scholarships don't matter. You know it makes a difference if you know anything about football. Which I think you do. Plus it is true if you look at the teams D3 beat from NAIA most are bottom feeders in there NAIA league and played better than average D3 teams.

D3 is in a class all its own. Nothing wrong with that and how D3 operates is good. Student comes first.

Heck even the American football Coaches Association Division 2 All America team includes NAIA players.

D3 is not on equal terms with NAIA.  NAIA isn't what it was but it sure still is a higher level of football than D3. Only thing D3 has is the NCAA label (which really means nothing).

Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: footballfever on December 14, 2005, 10:56:17 PM
By the way the Massey rankings are a joke! They don't know anything about most teams they are ranking. Its a good as having a blind man rank the teams. 

*Also the best teams in NAIA beat the best D3 that is for sure.
Only example is I know of lately is Azusa Pacific (NAIA )#10 last year against # 9/ D3 Trinity(who had a 30 game home win streak at the time) Azusa Beat Trinity 35-7 or 35-14 on there Home field. This game was played Middle to end of season.

NAIA #1 beat D2 #1 on there Home field a couple years ago as well by two TD's.  That D2 team that lost to the NAIA team two years in a row went on to beat a playoff D1AA team.

I can go on but I think you know NAIA is still playing some good football.



Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: footballfever on December 14, 2005, 11:01:45 PM
By the way the Massey rankings are a joke! They don't know anything about most teams they are ranking. Its a good as having a blind man rank the teams.  

*Also the best teams in NAIA beat the best D3 that is for sure.
Only example is I know of lately is Azusa Pacific (NAIA )#10 last year against # 9/ D3 Trinity(who had a 30 game home win streak at the time) Azusa Beat Trinity 35-7 or 35-14 on there Home field. This game was played Middle to end of season. By they way Azusa Pacific lost in the first round of the NAIA playoffs to a DAC team (U of Mary) 21-0.

NAIA #1 beat D2 #1 on there Home field a couple years ago as well by two TD's.  That D2 team that lost to the NAIA team two years in a row went on to beat a playoff D1AA team.

I can go on but I think you know NAIA is still playing some good football.



Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: smedindy on December 14, 2005, 11:10:52 PM
The Massey ratings are a good attempt to evaluate teams without any bias. Now some rankings may seem a bit off, and a 10-game football season some irregularities may surface, but overall the Massey ratings seem fairly solid to me.

I do my own D-3 power rating compendium using three indicies and Massey is the closest fit to my rankings, when all is said and done. (Not that I'm the ranking expert).

I would have to say the NAIA is quite regional, moreso than D-3. In Indiana, there's one good NAIA team and I bet Wabash could be quite competitive to them. I'd say that team for team, conferences like the OAC, MIAC, WIAC, and the CCIW could definitely best the NAIA in a 'challenge'.

Anyway, many of the NAIA schools have different missons than D-3 schools. The schools are in D-3 because of their missions, not their football programs.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 14, 2005, 11:35:15 PM
fbfever,

If you can arrange the game, I'll take (d2) Grand Valley State over the NAIA ALL-STAR team, and spot you two TDs.

AND I'll take MUC, UWW, and Linfield (you pick the order) against the NAIA top 3.

I know none of this will ever happen, so we're both just blowin' smoke.  But I'm a d3 fan - why are YOU here? ;)
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: footballfever on December 15, 2005, 12:10:11 AM
You are really blowin smoke with that!!!  If you think Linfield or any D3 team can beat Carrol or USF- St Francis Ind. and some others you are smokin something. Grand Valley and Carrol or USF would be a good game.  I am hear to speak the truth. I am a fan of all football.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 15, 2005, 12:47:59 AM
You honestly think any NAIA team could stay with Grand Valley?  Could you send me some of what you're smoking? ;)

4 TDs over any individual team; 2 TDs over the All-Star team.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 15, 2005, 04:33:29 AM
Quote from: footballfever on December 14, 2005, 10:56:17 PM
By the way the Massey rankings are a joke! They don't know anything about most teams they are ranking. Its a good as having a blind man rank the teams. 

I don't know why this statement was so profound that you had to post it twice. All I was using it was to say that the two teams you mentioned are bad Division III teams, and you can't argue against that.

I notice you didn't even try.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: wildcat11 on December 15, 2005, 03:46:19 PM
Quote from: footballfever on December 14, 2005, 10:38:36 PM
I would say just check the at least the top 40-45 teams in NAIA they all offer at least 15 or more scholarships and probably more than half of those the very close to or the full 24 scholarships (some I know offer much more than 24 with the redshirts rule). 

So you are saying 20-25 NAIA schools (a little under 1/4th of the football membership) plays with the full 24 scholarships?  Now, that is funny.  Just don't blurt out some crap and try to pass it along as fact.  Can you provide us with a list of schools that give out the full amount of scholarships?  I don't think you can.

Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: repete on December 16, 2005, 02:53:51 AM
Fever's delusional. He sites Azusa vs. Trinity on ``there'' home field. There are plenty of other examples. In each of the past few years, d3 teams have beaten nationally ranked NAIA teams.

Whitewater has beaten St. Xavier three straight times, including twice when they were middle of the pack in the WIAC. It took a last-second 47-yard field goal for St. Ambrose, another top 15 NAIA team and playoff selection, to beat IIAC non-contender Loras on the Bees' field. Other than St. Francis (No.2) vs. UWEC (No. 19) NAIA victories over ranked d3 teams have been exceedingly rare.

No matchups of top teams? How about 2003, Linfield was No. 7 and S. Oregon was No. 5 -- want to guess who won Fever?

Throw a few facts at this guy and he'll fade away.


Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: footballfever on December 16, 2005, 11:30:25 AM
The only fact I need to know is NAIA is better than D3.....   Mostly the Only people who don't want to accept that is D3 backers who didn't have enough talent or the sense to realize reality.  Go to D2 football website most will recognize NAIA as better than D3 that is for sure.  Nothing can change the D3 backers mind they think they play scholarship football even when they don't.  By the way WILDCat the (average number of scholarships in all of NAIA is around 15) and there is good amount who are "close" to the full 24+.  The top 35-40 or so offer around 18-22.   Really that is a big advantage and without a doubt the talent is better in NAIA and compares more closely with D2.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: smedindy on December 16, 2005, 11:45:53 AM
If the NAIA is so much better why are there schools fleeing the NAIA to go to the NCAA?
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: footballfever on December 16, 2005, 12:01:28 PM
The ones leaving for D3 which is very few are schools that had little or NO scholarships and had NO chance to compete in NAIA on a national level. Those schools like Crown, Northwestern etc  are schools that are going D3 in that fall into that catagory.  They will have a level playing field in D3 and continue to play each other within a D3 conference.

Most that are going go to D2 which most (NAIA) can move to quite easliy.  No doubt NAIA has lost teams and its not as good as it once was but that doesn't take away from that fact there is plenty of quality that it is still a higher level of football than D3.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: wildcat11 on December 16, 2005, 12:15:25 PM
Quote from: footballfever on December 16, 2005, 11:30:25 AM
The only fact I need to know is NAIA is better than D3.....   .

Wow...you really brought me to the light with that gem.

Here's a fun fact for you fever.

In the History of the NAIA there has been 83 NAIA football titles won (NAIA-I, NAIA-II, and now just NAIA due to lack of teams to make two divisions) in the history of the NAIA.  Of those 83 titles here is where those programs are now.....

-12 of those titles belong to schools who are now I-AA
-23 of those titles belong to schools who are now D3
-35 of those titles belong to schools who are  D2
-1 by a program that no longer plays football (D2)
-12 by now current NAIA members

...now here is the funny thing about those 12 titles current NAIA members own.  The last major defection of colleges from the NAIA was in 1996 and 1997 when schools that now make up the American Southwest Conference (DIII), the Northwest Conference (DIII) and few now DII schools were in the transition from the NAIA to DII/DIII.

The NAIA title game in 1997 was played by Willamette (DIII), who had not had one scholarship dollar in their program from 1995-97 to make the transition to DIII from the NAIA, and Findlay (DII).  

After this 1997 season the 7 NAIA titles won (1998-2004) were all won by teams that are still NAIA members.  The funny thing is that the teams that still remained in the NAIA had won a whopping total of 5 NAIA tiles in the whole history of NAIA football while the now NCAA schools were still in the NAIA.

So come back to me in 10 years when the current NAIA catches up to DIII in the number of NAIA titles that reside in DIII trophy cases.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: footballfever on December 16, 2005, 12:33:14 PM
That is the such a lame arguement using teams that were NAIA??? How does that show anything?? Teams that were NAIA years ago and won NAIA titles were NOT D3 teams then and had different rules, etc  when playing in NAIA.  How can you even make a statement like that and think that has anything to do with comparing NAIA and D3 football.  I don't care how many NAIA trophy they have in the case from years ago while they were NAIA teams playing under NAIA guidelines has nothing to do with how good they are in non scholarship D3. 

We are comparing D3 to NAIA and the fact is that NAIA is a higher level of football and compares more favorably with D2.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: wildcat11 on December 16, 2005, 12:38:38 PM
Quote from: footballfever on December 16, 2005, 12:33:14 PM
That is the such a lame arguement using teams that were NAIA??? How does that show anything??

It shows one thing....that a team playing under DIII rules (no scholarship dollars) while still in the NAIA, which Willamette did, can advance and play in the NAIA title game. :)
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: footballfever on December 16, 2005, 04:53:14 PM
Sure they didn't have scholarships! Right and I have some land on the ocean for Free. Maybe you were just one who didn't have a scholarship. 

I know a D1AA team advanced to the title game a few years back without scholarships so it could happen BUT that would be the exception to the rule type of thing.

Year in and year out teams with a good amount scholarships will beat teams without any. 

Would love to see the D3 champ get drilled by the NAIA champ but a better game would be the D2 against the NAIA champ.  Hard to get through to the D3 backers here but fact is that NAIA is a higher level of football. Sorry to say it even though I am a D3 backer myself. More D3 people need to admit where they stand in the football food chain.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 16, 2005, 06:29:51 PM
I find it interesting that the entire argument for NAIA being better than D-III is the number of scholarships, yet that doesn't translate to D-II being better than the NAIA.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: footballfever on December 18, 2005, 12:53:37 PM
Never said NAIA was better than D2. I said it is on the same level in most cases and compares favorably with D2.
NAIA does very well against D2 teams as well and in most cases NAIA has just as many scholarships as the "average" D2 team does.  NAIA also has lower academic standards for athletics which helps them to draw some very talented athletes as well that would not be eligible by NCAA standards.  The arguement was NAIA /D3 and there is not much to base to a D3 agruement for D3. NAIA is the higher level of football than D3 anyway you want to slice it.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 18, 2005, 03:14:07 PM
Quote from: footballfever on December 18, 2005, 12:53:37 PM
Never said NAIA was better than D2.

Never said you did. You seem to have trouble reading.

Quote from: footballfever on December 18, 2005, 12:53:37 PM
NAIA also has lower academic standards for athletics which helps them to draw some very talented athletes as well that would not be eligible by NCAA standards.

Yep, but it's all about character, remember.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: C.A. Wassink on December 20, 2005, 07:04:33 PM
I have coached and officiated at NAIA & NCAA D2, DIAA and D3 and have had close family members play at both NAIA and NCAA institutions.  There is no more of a level playing field within the NAIA and within D3 than there is between NAIA and D3.  There are only a handful of NAIA schools who allocate the full 24 full-ride scholarships.  Many of the NAIA conferences have their own limitations, such as 10 to 12 tuition grants per school.  This only establishes the maximum scholarship aid and many of the schools within that conference choose to award less than that, often because of financial limitations.  The "average" football scholarship is often less than $4,000.  Many NCAA D3's actually offer more attractive financial aid packages than some of the NAIA schools.  Some D3's allow red-shirting and others don't.  The NAIA actually requires uniform academic standards and D3 does not.  If a d3 admits the student, they must let him play-period!  As long he he remains academic eligible for that school, he can play.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: dutcheye on December 21, 2005, 04:45:28 AM
fbfever-
I notice you never really respond to the facts that have been presented in previous messages refuting your argument that NAIA is better than D3.  At least not in an effective manner.  You simply keep stating that NAIA has a higher quality of player, based on their ability to offer athletic scholarships.  I would like to bring up the point that, just because D3 institutions cannot offer athletic scholarships, it does not mean that there are no players with scholarship talent on D3 teams. I know you never said that explicitly, and you being knowlegeable about D3 football; I'm sure you were already aware of this point.  You just chose to conveniently ignore it.  I have experience with a D3 team that has great tradition, and while I'm not sure the exact number at any one period of time, there were quite a few guys over my 4 years that turned down walk on offers at D1 schools, transferred from D1 schools after walking on, or turned down scholarship offers from lower division NCAA shools, or from NAIA schools to play D3 football.  This is not to mention guys who had no scholarship offers who, after a couple of years to develop in the weight room, turned into very good football players.  I would say the talent level accross the board is very comparable when looking at top D3 schools as compared to top NAIA schools.  While I'm not sure anyone can ever convince you of this, even when comparing results between top teams recently, I'm sure that we can both agree that each has some tremendous athletes and tremendous teams, that don't get enough credit as compared to higher levels.  Some things will never change....................................................... BTW...anyone have any thoughts about comparing D3/NAIA/D2 teams to D1AA non-scholarship.  I know D3 usually stacks up pretty well with Drake.  Yet Drake is still considered one of the "big 4" in football in the state of IA by the Des Moines Register....Nothing against Drake, but that team is nothing more than a glorified D3 team..I'd say they'd contend for the IIAC crown with Central, Wartburg, and Coe...which is great.  But do they really deserve to be mentioned in any category with Iowa, ISU, or even UNI for that matter!!! OK so maybe I'm bitter on that point....Go bulldogs!
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Maroon&Gold on December 21, 2005, 10:23:52 AM
Okay here is my argument in the NAIA debate.  Are hte top few teams caoparable to and capable of beating anyone in D3?  Yes.

However, I think the real strength of D3 is the depth of quality. The depth of quality teams in NAIA is simply not there. Case in point from this year.  Valley City State, who finished ranked #22 nationally in NAIA played Gustavus (a MIAC team who finished the year 3-7) this season and beat them in Valley City  by a 10-3 score.  The top 4 teams in the MIAC all beat Gustavus by no less than 17 points.

To expand on this point.  If scholarships are hte key factor to making a strong team or league, then the NAIA should be all about depth of quality teams, because every team that gives scholarships should have an advantage over D3 teams.  Do the top teams compare, yes, the problem, there are about 10 NAIA teams that are quality, compared to about 30 from D3.

Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: footballfever on December 21, 2005, 04:11:47 PM
I"ll take VCSU over any MAIC team and VCSU is not a regular power in there conference. 

By the way there are not any conferences in NAIA that limit the number of scholarships below the max 24. All are allowed 24 Plus redshirts. Read some ealier post to see the breakdown on the schoalrships in NAIA.  The "average" is 15 scholarship for NAIA.  Also the academic requiremnts in NAIA are much lower.

So most of these posts by D3 backers are B.S. 

And Concordia guy,  there are only 94 teams in NAIA so I would hope D3 would have some quality teams with 200 teams.  The best of NAIA smokes the D3 teams.

Also the only comparing of top teams head to head in NAIA and D3 is 2004 Azusa Pacific #9 in NAIA played @ Trinity (TX) #8 D3. Now Trinity had a 30 game home win streak coming into the game.  Azusa Pacific won 35-7.   This game was played later in the season so no preseason rankings or rank after one game type of thing.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: smedindy on December 21, 2005, 04:59:30 PM
Who's the MAIC???  ;D

Regular power or not, they were ranked nationally and they lost to a bottom feeder in their conference - and you still said you'd take them over anyone in that conference.

I wonder what C-M, or St. Olaf, or St. John's would have done to them???

Oh, and Azusa won that game 30-14, NOT 35-7. And I don't think Trinity deserved to be ranked that highly. They struggled with Millsaps and lost to Mary Hardin-Baylor at home in the playoffs in a worse margin than Azusa.

Get the facts rigt or go home.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: repete on December 21, 2005, 05:18:12 PM
Guys .  . . facts and logic don't work with this troll.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: footballfever on December 21, 2005, 07:54:39 PM
What facts did you show me except the wrong info????????????  VCSU BEAT Gustavus with there JV mostly playing half the time in game one.  Not Lost like was stated.  What other facts did you have?? 

When facts are posted they are ignored by your D3 bias. 
The score was 35-14 in favor of Azusa.  Azusa got killed as well in the playoffs(UMary now D2) 20-2.  The excuses like Trinity was overrated(30 game home win streak?),  they lost by more in the playoffs, etc, etc,  boo hoo  ...... lost score really isn't the issue even though it was a blowout.  With two teams ranked about the same in the two divisions. 

The only people who think D3 is even close to NAIA are D3 backers. The rest is pretty clear NAIA has more talent and plays better football overall and anyone who knows football knows that fact. By the way Carrol beats the D3 Champ Mount Union this year by 30.

Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 21, 2005, 09:06:35 PM
fbf,

Did you happen to note one of the earliest scores of this season: NPU 23, Kentucky Wesleyan 13?  NPU has not won a game in the CCIW this MILLENIUM!

BTW, in the parallel universe I have access to, the d2, d3, and NAIA champs have a playoff.  Grand Valley beat Carrol 52-3; Carrol was doing decently against MUC until they forfeited: after Pierre Garcon grabbed his 3rd pass (253 yds, 3 TDs), they were heard muttering 'f*** this s***, we ain't gettin' beat by no 50!'  [Ah, in a single quotation I managed to malign both their athletic AND academic status!]

fbf, your rants are becoming highly predictable and very tedious.  WHAT are you doing on a d3 board?!
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: wildcat11 on December 21, 2005, 09:54:17 PM
Some recent scores of note:

2000:  NAIA #2 Southern Oregon losses to then unranked D3 Linfield.

2002: NAIA #5 Southern Oregon losses to then top 15 D3 Linfield.

2003: NAIA #5 Southern Oregon (with 3 guys that sign NFL FA deals) lose to #7 Linfield.

2005: NAIA #7 St. Xavier loses to #2 D3 Whitwater (Whitewater has beat STX four contests in a row, while STX has been a NAIA top 25 program over the past few years).

Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 21, 2005, 10:48:04 PM
Best of luck trying to introduce actual facts into the discussion. :)
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: smedindy on December 21, 2005, 11:43:42 PM
Uh, Fever. While I misread the score from the poster, the fact remains that a top NAIA program barely beat a bottom MIAC program - why would the JV play in a game that's 10-3? That makes no sense at all.


And that leads me to believe that most of the MIAC could whip 'em.

And you think this is a wrong score: http://www.d3football.com/story.php?story=6449

You also must realize that rankings are many times not the best measure of how good a team TRULY is, because rankings have a lot of biases in them. Who does the NAIA rankings, anyway?


Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: dutcheye on December 22, 2005, 02:32:43 AM
smedindy-
I wouldn't worry too much about getting the score wrong...footballfever made an earlier post claiming that Waldorf beat Simpson 48-13 when in reality it was the other way around..Simpson won 48-13.  Not that this does anything for D3's argument....Simpson should pound Waldorf...but I just thought I would point out his hypocricy.  Two NAIA playoff teams from IA...Morningside and St. Ambrose.....both would be beaten 9 times out of 10 by the IIAC champ.  I take that back..Morningside would be beaten 9 times out of 10 and St. Ambrose would be 10 times out of 10.  They were lucky to beat an average Loaras team.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: footballfever on January 02, 2006, 03:19:34 PM
My gosh please!  Morningside would beat ANY D3 team by at least 20 this year.  Who besides D3 backers think D3 is as good as NAIA???? Please there isn't anything to compare NAIA is better.  You can twist and turn it anyway you like but that is a well known fact. We should be comparing D2 and NAIA that would probably be closer.   D3 Non scholarship football is the bottom of the football food chain......End of discussion
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 02, 2006, 04:38:59 PM
Perhaps you should go pat yourself on the back on D2Football.com and see what it gets you. We're not buying here.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 02, 2006, 05:13:35 PM
On the other hand, he is on a record-setting pace - I don't recall anyone with double-digit numbers whose negative karma exceeded their post total!
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: jasondannelly on January 13, 2006, 02:59:16 PM
Since I check this board every couple of months, I thought it would be a good time to respond.

First off, I have the utmost respect for DIII football as well as DII football.  Whether we want to admit it or not, we are very much all the same. 

Small college football giving student athletes a chance to get an education and play ball for a couple more years.

I also have the utmost respect because I have to travel to DII and DIII schools in order to see many of the NAIA National Championship Trophies as well as some of the best and brightest alumns of NAIA schools.

First let me address a few issues that have been stated about the NAIA.
#1.  Quote from PC:  "Lumping all of NAIA into one little box is almost as bad as NAIA pundits saying the NCAA is all about money and not about "character." Those of us at D-III see all of the character and none of the money. "

The same arguement is very true with the NAIA.  While football teams receive money for playoff travel the rest of the oranization does not.  Meaning everyone of the NAIA schools that make it to a championship outside of football have to raise a boat load of money.

The NAIA is taking a proactive approach to Character in its sports as well as in the youth leagues surrounding its member institutions.  The NAIA has established 30 plus schools as Champions of Character Centers.  These schools make it a point to reach out to their local communities and speak to High Schools and Youth Leagues about Character issues.  It is truly a grassroots effort.  Over 150 of the NAIA's members are character institutions.

#2 Footballfevr quote: "at least the top 40-45 teams in NAIA they all offer at least 15 or more scholarships and probably more than half of those the very close to or the full 24 scholarships"

Not even close.  A common misconception about the NAIA is that their best teams offer the most money.  Not true.  An example would be Georgetown, a power in the NAIA.  Year after year, they get by on 12 scholarships.  The rest of the Top 15 schools are around 15-18 and the average NAIA school is probably 15 or less.  There are less than 5 schools that offer the full 24 count.

"I would expect a D3 BACKER to try to say D3 is as good and that scholarships don't matter"
Its actually true.  Scholarships don't matter as much as great coaching, an outstanding administration, and support from the community.  Give me 24 scholarships and no support from the admins and I'll show you a bad football team.

I'm not going to sit here and make excuses about who beat who and what teams didn't beat who.  The only arguement I have are the people saying "They beat a ranked NAIA team" or "They beat a ranked D3 team".  When you make this arguement, please include where the team finished ranked.  I keep hearing about how an unranked Linfield beat a top ranked SOU team.  Yep, and what'd SOU finish that season?  5-4 and unranked. 

#3 A question from smedindy: "If the NAIA is so much better why are there schools fleeing the NAIA to go to the NCAA?"
Honestly footballfvr gave a pretty decent answer, but I'll add a few things.  When I talked with a number of NCAA members who used to be NAIA schools they all said the exact same thing.  "Post season reimbursement and a chance for our institution to grow."  Members now in D3 said "Our school wanted to change the way we rewarded aid and gain money for post season reimbursement."

#4 Scholarship Money:  I'll be brief.  At the AFCA Coaches Convention I talked with 10 DIII coaches who used to be in the NAIA.  When I asked about the difference in scholarships they said to me, "Well they can give a football scholarship, but we still give more aid on a per player basis."

When I asked one coach if they had to count the aid by the NAIA rules (where academic is a part of countable aid) he said, "We'd probably be around 40-50 Scholarships."

Don't kill the messenger, this comes straight from several of your coaches.

I won't be checking on here for a while as I will be very busy working on my own site/business, but feel free to email me at mail@naiasports.net with any questions.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: smedindy on January 13, 2006, 03:23:01 PM
I think that has a lot to do with the aid that schools give in general. The vast majority of our football players have some sort of financial aid package.  But it's all need based (except for some academic scholarships).

Still, some kids think it's a big whiz-bang deal to have a 'football scholarship' - that's why having Marian come on board in Indianapolis gives DePauw, Wabash, Franklin, etc. some concern about Indianapolis recruting, especially with the strong Catholic fooball schools in that city.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: dutcheye on January 13, 2006, 04:59:21 PM
It sure is nice to here from someone on the NAIA side of things that actually knows what they are talking about.  Thank you for your insight JD.  I think, that when it comes right down to it, to compare D3 to NAIA is a lot like splitting hairs.  It is a very difficult task, and there isn't much of a point to it.  We can't really settle it on the playing field in any comprehensive way.  In reality the players on the field are the same kids on either side of the ball.  Same talent level....recruited in some cases by the same institutions....just made different choices when it came down to picking the college that fit them best.  From a football standpoint the difference between the two is very, very, marginal.
Title: D3 and NAIA
Post by: tmerton on March 20, 2006, 08:58:06 PM
A few days ago I saw a recruiting website that described the level of football competition at NAIA as being superior to D3 - somewhere between D2 and D3 was what it said I believe.  Carroll College in Montana (where Gags got his start) has won the NAIA championship 3 or 4 straight years.  How would they have done in D3?
Title: Re: D3 and NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 21, 2006, 01:28:04 AM
tmerton, there are five pages of posts on the D3 vs. NAIA message board farther down the page.  (Actually on Page 2, as I am posting.) :)
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: tmerton on March 21, 2006, 11:25:52 AM
Interesting thread; wish I'd seen it sooner.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Knightstalker on March 21, 2006, 11:38:29 AM
Regarding NAIA scholarships.  My nephew went to Houghton College an NAIA D2 school.  Houghton figured out all other financial aid he would be eligible for and then gave him an athletic scholarship for cross country and T&F to cover the rest with no cost to his family and no loans. 

He coached the Cross Country, cross country skiing and T&F programs at Paul Smiths College for one year.  PSC is most likely going to become an NAIA school because it is easier to comply with scholarship regulations at NAIA than with the NCAA.  He was part of the committee that recommended NAIA.  He is now coaching at Houghton and they are still awarding the scholarships the same way.  From what he has told me it is how most NAIA schools both D1 and D2 operate.  Almost no one at NAIA schools gets a full athletic scholarship.

He told me NAIA has looser grade standards but that most of the individual schools have tougher standards than the NCAA mandates.  At Houghton if you have NCAA minimum grades you are not competing.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: SaintNick on April 07, 2006, 03:56:41 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 21, 2005, 09:06:35 PM

BTW, in the parallel universe I have access to, the d2, d3, and NAIA champs have a playoff.  Grand Valley beat Carrol 52-3; Carrol was doing decently against MUC until they forfeited: after Pierre Garcon grabbed his 3rd pass (253 yds, 3 TDs), they were heard muttering 'f*** this s***, we ain't gettin' beat by no 50!'  [Ah, in a single quotation I managed to malign both their athletic AND academic status!]


First off, so there are no misconceptions I am an NAIA supporter and Carroll alum,and I am here because I have a little free time and there is not allot of football talk going on elsewhere. Anyway, I am sure no one really cares but Carroll College is one of the most highly regarded academic colleges in the Northwest, and possesses very high academic standards, and, while it is not always the case with successful athletic programs, this academic prowess also transfers over to the football team, they had 12 academic all-Americans and of those 12, 9 were major contributors to the team (by major, I mean starters, the most notable being Tyler Emmert), I am sure that you were just angry at ftblfever (he ruffles feathers on the NAIA board as well), but Carroll has very high academic and athletic standards. As to the NAIA v. DIII issues, it is really impossible to determine without 1 v. 1, 2. v. 2  etc. pairings, and the only situation that comes close was Eastern Oregon playing Witworth when they were both ranked #25 and both ended up unranked at the end of the season with 6-5 and 5-3 records, EO won that game by 10, but it is hardly an empirical test for gauging the two divisions. I for one think that a Carroll/Linfield match up would be a great game, but i doubt we will see it anytime soon. Well, that's my rant, thanks for indulging me.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: tmerton on April 07, 2006, 07:55:44 PM
Quote from: SaintNick on April 07, 2006, 03:56:41 PM
First off, so there are no misconceptions I am an NAIA supporter and Carroll alum,and I am here because I have a little free time and there is not allot of football talk going on elsewhere. Anyway, I am sure no one really cares but Carroll College is one of the most highly regarded academic colleges in the Northwest, and possesses very high academic standards, and, while it is not always the case with successful athletic programs, this academic prowess also transfers over to the football team, they had 12 academic all-Americans and of those 12, 9 were major contributors to the team (by major, I mean starters, the most notable being Tyler Emmert), I am sure that you were just angry at ftblfever (he ruffles feathers on the NAIA board as well), but Carroll has very high academic and athletic standards. As to the NAIA v. DIII issues, it is really impossible to determine without 1 v. 1, 2. v. 2  etc. pairings, and the only situation that comes close was Eastern Oregon playing Witworth when they were both ranked #25 and both ended up unranked at the end of the season with 6-5 and 5-3 records, EO won that game by 10, but it is hardly an empirical test for gauging the two divisions. I for one think that a Carroll/Linfield match up would be a great game, but i doubt we will see it anytime soon. Well, that's my rant, thanks for indulging me.

Yeah, but how's the tailgating at games???

Carroll's a fine school - the place where John Gagliaridi got his start and had an assistant coach who went on to become the Archbishop of Seattle (Raymond "Dutch" Hunthausen).  I agree it would be nice to have more interplay between NAIA and NCAA schools.

One of the main things I noted when I looked at the Carroll media guide was the number of advertisements - in the guide, around the stadium, etc.  Has a kind of minor league baseball feel to it  - not intended as a slight at all, but it does stick out at the college level. 
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: SaintNick on April 07, 2006, 10:22:54 PM
Carroll has some of the best (if not the best) tailgating in the NAIA it is a real community event which is why there is so much advertising, Carroll has become the crown jewel of Helena and is a prime choice for advertising.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: tmerton on April 08, 2006, 01:47:34 AM
Quote from: SaintNick on April 07, 2006, 10:22:54 PM
Carroll has some of the best (if not the best) tailgating in the NAIA it is a real community event which is why there is so much advertising, Carroll has become the crown jewel of Helena and is a prime choice for advertising.

My wife taught high school in Butte for a few years (way back) and has always talked about Montana with a reverence that I think you have to live in Montana to share.  (And yes, I understand the Butte is not a prime spot, certainly not Helena - which is all the more reason I think her impressions are significant.)

I'd love to see Carroll play St. John's.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: SaintNick on April 08, 2006, 05:46:57 PM
Quote from: tmerton on April 08, 2006, 01:47:34 AM

I'd love to see Carroll play St. John's.

I agree and believe that any top NAIA vs. any top DIII team could be a good game, the most informative thing from last season is to look at is how the very best teams (by best I mean teams that were at least in the top 10 in the final rankings) that played cross-over games faired. D III had two very good teams play NAIA teams: Whitewater(2) and Linfield(3), if I missed any pleas correct me. The NAIA had to very good teams: Azusa(9) and St. Francis(2) and one good team: St. Xavier (7 in final ranking 9 in post season ranking).Whitewater beat St. Xavier by 14, and Linfield beat Southern Oregon 49-14. Azusa beat Willamete 36-17 and St. Francis shut out Eu Claire 35-0. The top teams in the NAIA and DIII dominated their cross-over opponents. The bottom line seems to be that the very best teams in either league would probably be very competitive with each other.

Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Flea on June 09, 2006, 08:23:30 PM
The head track and field coach at the local NAIA school told me he can give $2000 to as many students as he wants.  A few recieve more money, but they see it as a way to increase enrollment, and it's so expensive anyways they don't care.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on June 09, 2006, 11:32:18 PM
Quote from: SaintNick on April 07, 2006, 03:56:41 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 21, 2005, 09:06:35 PM

BTW, in the parallel universe I have access to, the d2, d3, and NAIA champs have a playoff.  Grand Valley beat Carrol 52-3; Carrol was doing decently against MUC until they forfeited: after Pierre Garcon grabbed his 3rd pass (253 yds, 3 TDs), they were heard muttering 'f*** this s***, we ain't gettin' beat by no 50!'  [Ah, in a single quotation I managed to malign both their athletic AND academic status!]


First off, so there are no misconceptions I am an NAIA supporter and Carroll alum,and I am here because I have a little free time and there is not allot of football talk going on elsewhere. Anyway, I am sure no one really cares but Carroll College is one of the most highly regarded academic colleges in the Northwest, and possesses very high academic standards, and, while it is not always the case with successful athletic programs, this academic prowess also transfers over to the football team, they had 12 academic all-Americans and of those 12, 9 were major contributors to the team (by major, I mean starters, the most notable being Tyler Emmert), I am sure that you were just angry at ftblfever (he ruffles feathers on the NAIA board as well), but Carroll has very high academic and athletic standards. As to the NAIA v. DIII issues, it is really impossible to determine without 1 v. 1, 2. v. 2  etc. pairings, and the only situation that comes close was Eastern Oregon playing Witworth when they were both ranked #25 and both ended up unranked at the end of the season with 6-5 and 5-3 records, EO won that game by 10, but it is hardly an empirical test for gauging the two divisions. I for one think that a Carroll/Linfield match up would be a great game, but i doubt we will see it anytime soon. Well, that's my rant, thanks for indulging me.

Sorry to be so slow to get back to you - I rarely check this board.  Sorry to pick on Carroll - I'm fairly familiar with Carroll (WI) but confess I didn't even know there was a Carroll in Helena!  Now that I've looked it up, I retract all aspersions on its academics. :-[

I wasn't angry at fbfever - he wasn't worth such a reaction.  Just trying to get his goat, and your alma mater happened to be in the crossfire - sorry!
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: SaintNick on June 22, 2006, 01:35:54 PM
Ypsi,
I was not offended, I just had some extra time and a little info, anyway I should have noted that you were referring to a Parallel Universe and maybe Carroll's academic standards are not that high in that universe. ;) It will be interesting to see how the NAIA v. D3 matchups go for this coming season, but until then I am out.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 28, 2006, 10:39:17 PM
Preliminary compilation of the D3 vs NAIA.
(Rough Draft--Corrections appreciated

Thanks to Jason Dannelly (http://football.victorysportsnetwork.com/schedule.php))

August
31  William Penn University  @  University of Wisconsin-Stout


September
  2  St. Olaf College  @  Valley City State University   
      Central Methodist University  @  Westminster College   
      Thiel College  @  Geneva College   
      Taylor University  @  Anderson University   
      St. Norbert College  @  Olivet Nazarene University   
      Saint Ambrose University  @  Loras
   
9    Seton Hill College  @  McDaniel   
      NC Wesleyan College  @  Southern Virginia University   
      Southwestern Assemblies of God Univ  @  Sul Ross St. Univ.   
      Martin Luther College  @  Waldorf College
   
16  Shorter College  @  LaGrange College   
      Seton Hill College  @  Wesley College   

23  UW-LaCrosse  @  Azusa Pacific University         
      Howard Payne University  @  Paul Quinn College   
      Austin College  @  Southwestern Assemblies of God Univ   
      UW-Stevens Point  @  Waldorf College
 
30  UW-Stevens Point  @  Trinity International University   
      Azusa Pacific University  @  Whitworth College   

October
14  Southern Oregon University  @  Linfield College   

November
  4  Huntingdon College  @  Southwestern Assemblies of God Univ
   
11  Southwestern Assemblies of God Univ  @  Colorado College   
      Waldorf College  @  Buena Vista University  
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ron Boerger on June 29, 2006, 03:33:16 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on June 28, 2006, 10:39:17 PM
Sept
23  UW-LaCrosse  @  Azusa Pacific University         
      Howard Payne University  @  Paul Quinn College   
      Austin College  @  Southwestern Assemblies of God Univ   
      UW-Stevens Point  @  Waldorf College

What a shame this could not have been instead

UW-LC @ Howard Payne (could be a good matchup)
Austin College @ UW-SP (not much of a contest)

Oh, well.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 29, 2006, 03:42:01 PM
Austin College probably wanted out of that game.

And I will bet that HPU may not have the funds to fly anywhere this year.  The Southern Nazarene trip is about 350 miles.  That being the case, then there are no other options in the southwest.  (Trinity's dance card was already full.)
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Bill McCabe on June 29, 2006, 03:46:14 PM
With the cost of travel and the importance of wins, I can understand why these teams chose to schedule like they did.  HPU and AC will both benefit from early wins.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 29, 2006, 04:02:02 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on June 29, 2006, 03:46:14 PM
With the cost of travel and the importance of wins, I can understand why these teams chose to schedule like they did.  HPU and AC will both benefit from early wins.

But Bill they have no value towards the NCAA and post-season play.  In Pool C consideration, the best that HPU might do would be 7-1 vs. South Region teams (.875 winning percentage).  Someone else might go 8-1 or 9-1 in region and have a better in-region winning percentage.

The HSU and UMHB non-conference games will be in-region.  That can really help the conference, too.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Warren Thompson on June 29, 2006, 04:43:21 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on June 29, 2006, 04:02:02 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on June 29, 2006, 03:46:14 PM
With the cost of travel and the importance of wins, I can understand why these teams chose to schedule like they did.  HPU and AC will both benefit from early wins.
But Bill they have no value towards the NCAA and post-season play.  In Pool C consideration, the best that HPU might do would be 7-1 vs. South Region teams (.875 winning percentage).  Someone else might go 8-1 or 9-1 in region and have a better in-region winning percentage.

Ralph et al.:

Is this a sign of increasing difficulty for SCAC and ASC teams to schedule "meaningful" non-conference games?
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ron Boerger on June 29, 2006, 04:51:09 PM
There's been some speculation (by Pat, no less) that the SCAC wants to change back to a six-game conference schedule after Colorado College and Birmingham-Southern join.  If not, the SCAC teams will only have two non-conference games to schedule instead of the current four. 

With the ASC having to schedule an additional non-conference game this season and beyond (unless they add a FB school), there are a lot of ASC schools looking to add that tenth game and there aren't many close in-region options.  MC has Millsaps, the Texas ASC schools have Trinity and Austin, and maybe Rhodes is a possibility for LC and MC. 
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 29, 2006, 05:39:49 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger (BfB) on June 29, 2006, 04:51:09 PM
There's been some speculation (by Pat, no less) that the SCAC wants to change back to a six-game conference schedule after Colorado College and Birmingham-Southern join.  If not, the SCAC teams will only have two non-conference games to schedule instead of the current four. 

With the ASC having to schedule an additional non-conference game this season and beyond (unless they add a FB school), there are a lot of ASC schools looking to add that tenth game and there aren't many close in-region options.  MC has Millsaps, the Texas ASC schools have Trinity and Austin, and maybe Rhodes is a possibility for LC and MC. 
That also helps BSC.

So, Austin College can choose from 9 ASC schools for 3 games and do a Kalamazoo trip every other year.  Whom do they want to play in the ASC?  McM, which is AC's 2nd most common opponent at 64 games to Trinity's 70 games? TLU, an institutional peer? Whom else? At the last minute, they chose Southwestern Assemblies of God over HPU.

Trinity?  One road trip and 2-3 ASC teams.

Colorado College?  At least they can compete for a conference title.  The need for games may help the west coast schools.

DePauw? 6 SCAC, Monon Bell and three travel friendly games.

BSC?  Huntingdon and LaGrange plus two others?  Faulkner? It is NAIA  and in-state.

Millsaps unfortunately has not had 10 "legal" games, 3 of the last 7 years!

I think that the beneficiaries of the move will be the ASC and South Region independents.

I also suspect this is a calculated move to improve the QOWI at the expense of weaker independents.  However, if LaGrange and Huntingdon become football powerhouses, you lose the travel savings.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Highlander on June 30, 2006, 08:47:05 PM
Ralph hit the nail on the head about Huntingdon and Lagrange becoming powerhouses. With the talent that they have to choose from in recruiting- it should take long.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 30, 2006, 07:51:25 AM
This season's start has jumped up on me! :-\

We have D3 games starting tomorrow night! :o

Thanks to Keith McMillan and to Laz of lazindex.com for the help.  We may even hear from Jason Dannelly of NAIAfootball.com.

Week 1 D3 vs. NAIA (If they are D3 Provisional, then we are going to claim them as D3.  Corrections are always appreciated! ;))

31 Aug -- William Penn IA at UW-Stout
31 Aug -- Mayville St (ND) at Hamline

2 Sep -- St Ambrose IA at Loras
2 Sep -- Central Methodist MO at Westminster MO
2 Sep -- St Norbert at Olivet Nazarene IL
2 Sep -- St Olaf at Valley City St ND
2 Sep -- Thiel at Geneva PA
2 Sep -- Howard Payne at Southern Nazarene OK
2 Sep -- Anderson at Taylor IN
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on August 31, 2006, 01:10:05 AM
Ralph,
You the man, as always. We'll track this in ATN again this year.

I think Jason's NAIA site is .net, for the record.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 31, 2006, 10:16:04 PM
I received a prompt reply to an email concerning the composition of the NAIA this year from Jason Dannelly.  And I quote,

QuoteCouple changes - Seton Hill is no longer an NAIA school.  They are moving to DII and no longer participate in the NAIA.

Southern Virginia still does not participate in the NAIA football season (no idea why)

Concordia-Selma was suppose to be in the NAIA this year, but have chose to wait another year.

That should cover all of it.

Thanks , Jason and have a great and safe season!
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 31, 2006, 10:22:20 PM
Quote from: K-Mack on August 31, 2006, 01:10:05 AM
Ralph,
You the man, as always. We'll track this in ATN again this year.

I think Jason's NAIA site is .net, for the record.

Thanks, K-Mack! :)

Jason Dannelly's email came from www.victorysportsnetwork.com.

It appears that Jason has made some quality upgrades over the off-season, too.  It is certainly fun being a sports fan in the Internet days!
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: FPM on September 01, 2006, 01:03:47 AM
Well the West Region did a pretty good job with both Stout and Hamline beating NAIA schools good way to start DIII 2     NAIA  0
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on September 07, 2006, 01:27:17 AM
Jason's site still lists Southern Virginia as NAIA, so I'm going to list it for now, and when we determine the truth, we will or won't (I suspect the latter) count it in our tally.

I won't count Trinity Bible or games played by NNA against others.

Seton Hill is D2 in my eyes as well.

So, ATN will show D3 7, NAIA 2 for Week 1 and list this slate of Week 2 games:

Black Hills State at UW-Eau Claire
Southern Oregon at Menlo
Southwest Assemblies of God at Sul Ross State
Martin Luther at Waldorf
North Carolina Wesleyan at Southern Virginia

Doesn't look like it's gonna be a good week for D3.

I have last year's tallies at 7-11 vs. D2 and 7-10 vs. D-I-AA.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 11, 2006, 12:15:59 AM
Quote from: K-Mack on September 07, 2006, 01:27:17 AM
Week 2 games:

Black Hills State 0 at UW-Eau Claire  20
Southern Oregon 16 at Menlo 13
Southwest Assemblies of God 6 at Sul Ross State 35
Martin Luther 17 at Waldorf 24
North Carolina Wesleyan 42 at Southern Virginia 7* (http://naia.cstv.com/member-services/championships/Qualifcation_Plans/FootballQP.htm)

D3 3 wins, 2 losses.

I have last year's tallies at 7-11 vs. D2 and 7-10 vs. D-I-AA.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 12, 2006, 12:27:40 AM
Week #3

D3   Greenville   vs   NAIA   Taylor IN

NAIA   Shorter   vs   D3   LaGrange
NAIA   Azusa Pacific   vs   D3   UW-Whitewater

I like the chances of LaGrange vs. first year program Shorter.  we can see what difference scholarships make, if any.  (I also believe that any margin under 17 points is rough parity at this point as well.)
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: ADL70 on September 13, 2006, 06:13:57 PM
[quote (I also believe that any margin under 17 points is rough parity at this point as well.)
[/quote]

An interesting propostion Ralph.  Do you mean that to apply to football in general or just to this game between two start-ups; one scholarship and the other not?
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 13, 2006, 06:34:43 PM
Quote from: cwru70 on September 13, 2006, 06:13:57 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner link=topic=4504.msg552249#msg552249 date=1158035260 (I also believe that any margin under 17 points is rough parity at this point as well.)
/quote]

An interesting propostion Ralph.  Do you mean that to apply to football in general or just to this game between two start-ups; one scholarship and the other not?

cwru70, I am referring to the 2 start-up programs.  If we use the USNews rankings as a rough proxy for academic prestige, LaGrange is #7 of the 53 Top tier Southern Comprehensive Colleges; Shorter is #21 of 53.

Do athletic scholarships allow a school to attract more talent at the key positions?
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Hawks88 on September 13, 2006, 06:55:42 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 12, 2006, 12:27:40 AM
Week #3

D3   Greenville   vs   NAIA   Taylor IN

NAIA   Shorter   vs   D3   LaGrange
NAIA   Azusa Pacific   vs   D3   UW-Whitewater

I like the chances of LaGrange vs. first year program Shorter.  we can see what difference scholarships make, if any.  (I also believe that any margin under 17 points is rough parity at this point as well.)


This is actually Shorter's second season. They were 3-7 last year and 1-1 so far this season.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 14, 2006, 08:14:16 AM
Quote from: Hawks88 on September 13, 2006, 06:55:42 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 12, 2006, 12:27:40 AM
Week #3

D3   Greenville   vs   NAIA   Taylor IN

NAIA   Shorter   vs   D3   LaGrange
NAIA   Azusa Pacific   vs   D3   UW-Whitewater

I like the chances of LaGrange vs. first year program Shorter.  We can see what difference scholarships make, if any.  (I also believe that any margin under 17 points is rough parity at this point as well.)


This is actually Shorter's second season. They were 3-7 last year and 1-1 so far this season.

Boink!  My bad!  Thanks Hawks!  Brevard is the first-year team that is D-2 Provisional. :-\
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Foss on September 14, 2006, 08:23:19 PM
Ralph, thanks for keeping track of these games again this season.

Unless it has been discussed on another thread, I'm surprised there has not been more talk about this Saturday's UW-Whitewater vs. NAIA #9 Azusa Pacific contest (although it is mentioned in this week's ATN). We all know what UWW did last year and is expected to do this season, and Azusa has consistently been regarded as a pretty tough team. They (Azusa) have given 4-time NAIA champ Carroll College a couple of really good scares during their reign atop of that division.

By the way, how about UWW's schedule this year? Even with Mary Hardin-Baylor's early season loss, the Warhawks have to be playing one of the most difficult schedules in DIII. In addition to playing everyone in the tough WIAC, they collide with a top ten NAIA school (Azusa) and then travel down to Texas to play UMHB late in the year. Wow!
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 14, 2006, 11:44:20 PM
Foss, I think that UMHB finishes at least 7-3 in-region, and UW-W is in (administative)region #4 with UMHB.  That can become a 15 point win.

I think that Azusa is a perfect game for UWW.  You play 9 in-region games.  A hard a time as you have filling a schedule, I will concede an Azusa Pacific (NAIA) game.  Azusa is willing to play anyone as well!

Good luck!
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 17, 2006, 11:41:54 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 12, 2006, 12:27:40 AM
Week #3

D3   Greenville 0   vs   NAIA   Taylor IN 13

NAIA   Shorter   54            vs            D3   LaGrange 0
NAIA   Azusa Pacific 7   vs   D3   UW-Whitewater 27


D3 1, NAIA 2 in Week #3;  D3 11, NAIA 6 on the season.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 17, 2006, 11:44:48 PM
Week #4


D3   UW-La Crosse   at   NAIA   Azusa Pacific
D3   Howard Payne   at   NAIA   Paul Quinn
D3   UW-River Falls   at   NAIA   St Francis IN
D3   Austin College   at   NAIA   SW Assemblies of God

NAIA   Southern Virginia*   vs   D3   Greensboro

Southern Virginia is not competing in the NAIA playoffs in 2006.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on September 19, 2006, 12:38:37 AM
Or 2007 or 2008, etc.

Are they or are they not an NAIA-classified team?

According to VSN, they are, and I think they are listed on their own website that way, but I realize that doesn't eliminate all doubts.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 24, 2006, 06:49:31 PM
D3   UW-La Crosse   at   NAIA   Azusa Pacific --  wins 27-10
D3   Howard Payne   at   NAIA   Paul Quinn  wins 16-9
D3   UW-River Falls   at   NAIA   St Francis IN  loses 8-63
D3   Austin College   at   NAIA   SW Assemblies of God -- wins 7-0

NAIA   Southern Virginia*   vs   D3   Greensboro  -- G'boro wins 17-16

Also, one game that I overlooked...

D3 UW-Stevens Point  at  NAIA Waldorf IA --  wins 45-7.

D3 goes 5-1 on the week, and is now 16-7 on the season.

Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 24, 2006, 06:58:00 PM
Week #5...

D3 UW-Stevens Point             at         NAIA  Trinity International


NAIA Azusa Pacific                   at          D3 Whitworth
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on September 25, 2006, 02:09:35 AM
Starting to run away with it. Drop the So. Va. and it's still 14-7 with significant wins over Geneva, Azusa x 2, etc. and a hardcore beatdown from St. Francis (Ind.)
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: repete on September 25, 2006, 02:53:34 AM
Perhap this is why Jason D's NAIA site doesn't track this anymore. In fact, the No. 1 d3 basher (of many) on his boards was from the Dakota Conference, which is 0-3 vs. d3 this season.

And two of those wins were vs. the DAC's top teams ...

Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on September 27, 2006, 02:15:28 AM
Quote from: repete on September 25, 2006, 02:53:34 AM
Perhap this is why Jason D's NAIA site doesn't track this anymore.

That and it doesn't prove anything ... Either side can argue its way out of a lot of results, like "just because this team beat this team doesn't mean this divison is better than that one." Or "you have more teams." Or "those teams aren't representative of the whole division." Or "Yeah, but Carroll would beat Mount Union."

I think it's good for our readers to know who isn't playing D3 teams and if they have some sort of standing in NAIA when we do play them.

There are some people who don't deal with facts and/or have their minds made up before the discussion begins (Dude, we'd totally smoke Grand Valley!) ... but for the most part I track it because it's a small education on who these other teams are.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 30, 2006, 07:17:21 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 24, 2006, 06:58:00 PM
Week #5...

D3 UW-Stevens Point       35       at         NAIA  Trinity International  0


NAIA Azusa Pacific        14           at          D3 Whitworth   17

D3 goes 2-0 this week and is now 18-7 on the season.

There are no "D3 vs. NAIA" games next week.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 09, 2006, 01:40:31 AM
Week #7:

NAIA Southern Oregon at Linfield
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 15, 2006, 02:10:30 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 09, 2006, 01:40:31 AM
Week #7:

NAIA Southern Oregon  29  at Linfield  37

D3 19 games, NAIA 7 games.

Week #8

D3   Frostburg St   at   NAIA   Union KY
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on October 16, 2006, 12:14:28 AM
Cool. We have the same thing.

Course it's easy to keep up with one game every two weeks :)
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 16, 2006, 08:53:57 AM
Quote from: K-Mack on October 16, 2006, 12:14:28 AM
Cool. We have the same thing.

Course it's easy to keep up with one game every two weeks :)

I just appreciate the double-checking/proofreading! ;) :)
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 21, 2006, 07:17:14 PM
D3 20 games, NAIA 7 games.

Week #8

D3   Frostburg St  7  at   NAIA   Union KY 3


Week #9

NAIA Southern Virginia  at  D3-Affiliate Apprentice-Nwpt News
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 02, 2006, 10:32:27 PM
Plagarized from the front page.

Newport News beat Southern Virginia 32-0.

Week #10
vs. NAIA (1-0 in Week 9, 21-7 in 2006)
Huntingdon at Southwest Assemblies of God
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on January 02, 2007, 12:19:54 AM
How come the NCAA statistics have Nebraska Wesleyan as the 13th-ranked (or whereever) defense in D3, but they pretty clearly consider themselves NAIA?

http://www.nebrwesleyan.edu/athletics/football/index.php

http://web1.ncaa.org/stats/StatsSrv/rankings

I know there's a lot of dual-membership cases and whatnot, so can one of you gurus tackle this one for me?
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: gordonmann on January 02, 2007, 01:23:24 AM
That is interesting.

Nebraska Wesleyan is Division III for basketball (http://www.d3hoops.com/school_info.php?school=Nebraska%20Wesleyan&team=m).

There are other teams that are Division III for some sports, but not others.  Menlo (Division III football, NAIA hoops) and Cal State Hayward (Division III baseball, NAIA hoops) come to mind.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: runyr on August 04, 2007, 04:46:35 PM
Wow, I just read this entire thread (9 pages).  My head's spinning and I can't imagine the two sides ever agreeing on which organization has the better teams. 
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 04, 2007, 04:54:20 PM
Oh, the cowman and the farmer should be friends...

We will keep track of the scores again this year.  Contributions and corrections are appreciated.  Sometimes my fall travel schedule makes it tough to post in a timely fashion.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 04, 2007, 05:13:48 PM
Week #10 Huntingdon 42 Southwestern Assemblies of God 17

D3 22 wins; NAIA 7 wins.

Week #11

Waldorf IA 20, Buena Vista (IIAC) 17 OT

Colorado College 28, Southwestern Assemblies of God 6

Final tally in the 2006 season:

D3 -- 23 wins
NAIA -- 8 wins
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on August 06, 2007, 12:10:25 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on August 04, 2007, 05:13:48 PMFinal tally in the 2006 season:

D3 -- 23 wins
NAIA -- 8 wins

Quote from: runyr on August 04, 2007, 04:46:35 PM
I can't imagine the two sides ever agreeing on which organization has the better teams. 

A couple more seasons like that should settle the argument. You can talk about matchups all you like but that's a serious disparity.

But considering that D3 itself functions as I-AA and II in some states (Wisc.) and NAIA is present in states where there's little D3 presence or vice versa, it's safe to assume that a similar level of player ends up at a lot of NAIA and D3 institutions.

I can't speak for NAIA necessarily, but there's such a wide range of talent level in D3 alone that it's really hard to generalize an entire division as better than the other. HSCoach, I think, said it best on the other thread that some of our best teams are probably better than some of their best and some of our worst are worse than their worst.

They probably have a similar disparity in talent between their Carrolls and St. Francises and the schools who are brand new programs, brand new to the classification or simply floundering, or what have you.

Some D3s can beat D2s and I-AAs, scholarships or no.

Basically, it's probably not very wise to spend a lot of time trying to generalize the skill level of 238 teams, some of whom aren't that far removed from NAIA status themselves.

It appears to be a more adversarial relationship than it should be. After all, we small-school fans should probably be banding together.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: runyr on August 06, 2007, 09:37:47 PM
Quote from: K-Mack on August 06, 2007, 12:10:25 AM

It appears to be a more adversarial relationship than it should be. After all, we small-school fans should probably be banding together.

Not when some of us have stars on our bellies and some of us don't! (Dr. Seuss)
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on August 06, 2007, 11:46:49 PM
Nice Sneetches reference  :D
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: d-train on August 07, 2007, 01:32:09 PM
Quote from: K-Mack on August 06, 2007, 12:10:25 AM
Basically, it's probably not very wise to spend a lot of time trying to generalize the skill level of 238 teams, some of whom aren't that far removed from NAIA status themselves.

It appears to be a more adversarial relationship than it should be. After all, we small-school fans should probably be banding together.

I agree with your sentiment here, K-Mack. I'm just a fan of small-college ball and I think a few more people need to adopt that attitude. We have a lot more in common with NAIA teams than we have differences...especially those schools (like PLU, Linfield, HSU) with NAIA roots. Geez, Willamette lost the '97 NAIA title game to a team that is now D-2...and I played in NAIA and D-3 playoff games without changing schools.  ???
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on August 07, 2007, 10:16:26 PM
Well said d-train.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Kira & Jaxon's Dad on August 08, 2007, 06:16:27 AM
Does the NAIA do drug testing.  I visited St. Ambrose my senior year in HS and remember that as one of the big differences (other than scholarship $) was that the NAIA didn't drug test.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: HScoach on August 08, 2007, 07:12:31 AM
Quote from: K-Mack on August 06, 2007, 11:46:49 PM
Nice Sneetches reference  :D

I agree.  Just read that one the other night (and Yertle the Turtle) to my youngest boy.  Nothing beats Dr. Seuss!
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on August 10, 2007, 01:26:05 AM
Quote from: kirasdad on August 08, 2007, 06:16:27 AM
Does the NAIA do drug testing.  I visited St. Ambrose my senior year in HS and remember that as one of the big differences (other than scholarship $) was that the NAIA didn't drug test.

If that's true, I wonder if it's a cost issue.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: BoBo on August 10, 2007, 04:03:26 AM
Quote from: K-Mack on August 10, 2007, 01:26:05 AM
Quote from: kirasdad on August 08, 2007, 06:16:27 AM
Does the NAIA do drug testing.  I visited St. Ambrose my senior year in HS and remember that as one of the big differences (other than scholarship $) was that the NAIA didn't drug test.

If that's true, I wonder if it's a cost issue.

The NAIA Medical Guidelines, page 17 - Substance Abuse Program, doesn't indicate if testing is conducted at the Association level.  I would conclude it doesn't drug test.

http://graphics.fansonly.com/schools/naia/member-services/training/Medical%20Guidelines%20Book%2006-07revised.pdf (http://graphics.fansonly.com/schools/naia/member-services/training/Medical%20Guidelines%20Book%2006-07revised.pdf)
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on September 03, 2007, 08:42:53 PM
vs. NAIA (23-8 in 2006)
Guilford 70, at Southern Virginia 26
Anderson 37, at Taylor 13
at St. Norbert 34, Olivet Nazarene 27
UW-Stevens Point 13, at Webber International 7
Southern Nazarene 42, at Howard Payne 14
at Austin 35, Southwest Assemblies of God 14

5-1.

More of the same.  ;)
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 03, 2007, 08:45:27 PM
The Southern Nazarene score is the perplexing one.  Let's see how far they go in the playoffs.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on September 03, 2007, 08:55:55 PM
Quote from: K-Mack on September 03, 2007, 08:42:53 PM
More of the same.  ;)

I looked back on this board, and found that disturbing clash with that Football Fever clown.

NAIA got the better of D3 in '05, 19-15, it appears.

So like most logical people said, the two divisions aren't terribly far apart, at least when you put similarly-ranked teams together. Though if it continues at a 23-8 and 5-1 clip, we may have to re-evaluate our thinking on the matter.

In any case, I just chart it so people know which classification the non-D3s people are playing came from. Do what you will with the records.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: BoBo on September 03, 2007, 08:57:11 PM
Quote from: K-Mack on September 03, 2007, 08:42:53 PM
vs. NAIA (23-8 in 2006)
Guilford 70, at Southern Virginia 26
Anderson 37, at Taylor 13
at St. Norbert 34, Olivet Nazarene 27
UW-Stevens Point 13, at Webber International 7
Southern Nazarene 42, at Howard Payne 14
at Austin 35, Southwest Assemblies of God 14

5-1.

More of the same.  ;)


The ending of the UWSP/Webber International game was especially interesting. The game was heading for OT, when on a 4th down, the Webber punter knocked an 84 yard boomer that was downed at the Point 2 yard line.  However, a penalty brought the play back for a re-kick.  On the re-kick, Point blocked the punt and fell on the loose ball for a TD with :38 seconds remaining and the game winner.  Talk about your fantastic finishes.

The recap is here:

http://www.uwsp.edu/athletics/football/2007/Webberintl.htm (http://www.uwsp.edu/athletics/football/2007/Webberintl.htm)
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on September 03, 2007, 10:52:24 PM
Whoa. That's a brutal way to lose.

Nice tip. Almost as crazy as that Cornell-Northwestern finish. Definitely from the 'stuff I've never seen before' files.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on September 03, 2007, 10:57:41 PM
K-Mack,

What?  You've never seen (effectively) a 98-yard penalty for a game-losing td before?!

Such a sheltered life. ;D
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on September 03, 2007, 11:55:34 PM
I gotta get out more.

Did you read about the sprinkler thing? It'll be in ATN if you haven't.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: pg04 on September 04, 2007, 12:00:02 AM
Was that the thing about the sprinklers coming out when a team was about to kick an extra point, and then when it eventually stopped they missed the EP?  I have no idea what teams were involved but I know I heard it somewhere  :P
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on September 04, 2007, 01:35:18 AM
Quote from: pg04 on September 04, 2007, 12:00:02 AM
Was that the thing about the sprinklers coming out when a team was about to kick an extra point, and then when it eventually stopped they missed the EP?  I have no idea what teams were involved but I know I heard it somewhere  :P

Yeah. We just so happened to have a shooter at that game too :)
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: repete on September 04, 2007, 02:32:21 AM
Ah, Football Fever ... I remember his stuff.

The interesting thing about the zealots are that the  folks who have the most reasonable perspectives -- and know that the annual d3 vs. naia tally makes good board fodder but not much else -- are the guys with actual experience/connections in both divisions ... such as WC11.

Still, it's kind of funny to look at the NAIA boards. The mantra over there is that they're equal to d2. Interestingly, if Concordia beats NAIA Dickinson State this week after beating d2 Moorhead on Saturday, then maybe in a small, obscure  way they will be  correct .... :) 

Still, tho, I would have loved to see a game between Carroll and Mount. Or that great Linfield team and Carroll.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on September 07, 2007, 02:55:27 AM
Quote from: repete on September 04, 2007, 02:32:21 AM
Still, it's kind of funny to look at the NAIA boards. The mantra over there is that they're equal to d2. Interestingly, if Concordia beats NAIA Dickinson State this week after beating d2 Moorhead on Saturday, then maybe in a small, obscure  way they will be  correct .... :) 

That's funny.

I think they're slightly delusional if they really believe that about D2; I haven't seen much factual basis to support that, but then again, some of those guys (OK, maybe just Fever) had a real problem with facts.

Then again, there's a big difference between D2 Gulf South, NCC or MIAA and D2 independents, NE-10 or what have you.

I think if we've learned anything following along its that you can't paint every classification with a broad brush. Every NAIA isn't better or worse than every D2 or D3 and vice versa. There is some overlap, and to some extent, a good fundamental football team (like Appy State for example) is a good, fundamental football team no matter how much talent is on the other side of the line from them.

D3, perhaps more than any, currently encompasses such a wide range of talent levels, institutional commitments to football, etc.

My personal opinion is that the level of strength goes in the order you expect it would: BCS, FCS, D2, D3, NAIA. But I certainly agree that the best in all the so-called lower divisions could beat middlin' teams probably all the way up to FCS, or at least II.

What we notice in places that have geographical overlap (Ohio, Pa., Michigan, Va.) is that many of the top kids are being recruited across the board, and their school choice often comes down to something not necessarily football-specific.

Also, when you're talking about scholarship-level programs that don't have enough scholarships to give everyone a full ride, there are many non-scholarship D3s, especially ones with reasonable tuition to begin with, who can put together a need-based financial aid package that is competitive with a partial athletic scholarship.

I think the presence of scholarships alone as the basis for proof there's a higher talent level works much better if there are full scholarships involved, if at all.

Certainly we could discuss it more with folks on the outside, but to prove what, really?

I love our level of football as it is and don't feel we have to convince anyone of our legitimacy or anything. In a way, such a pursuit reflects a kind of insecurity, a desperation to get people to believe you're worthy. Which is silly if you already know you are.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Tom33 on September 07, 2007, 07:55:41 AM
There is no way the NAIA is even close to the D3 level of play. The talent level in some schools could be comparable, but in most circumstances not even a contest.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: repete on September 07, 2007, 10:43:01 AM
KMack,
That sums it up nicely on a number of levels.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on September 08, 2007, 04:04:55 AM
Quote from: repete on September 07, 2007, 10:43:01 AM
KMack,
That sums it up nicely on a number of levels.

Thank you.

Most people just glaze over my long posts.  ;D
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: BoBo on September 08, 2007, 04:55:45 PM
UW-Platteville gets a win vs NAIA St. Ambrose today:

Pioneers 16 Fighting Bees 6
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on September 09, 2007, 06:42:38 AM
So unless I have this wrong, D3 went 6-0 against NAIA today and 0-5 against D2/I-AA.

(no comment)
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on September 12, 2007, 12:54:25 AM
ATN's Who are those guys year-long running list of inter-classification competition:

vs. NAIA (23-8 in 2006)
Guilford 70, at Southern Virginia 26
Anderson 37, at Taylor 13
at St. Norbert 34, Olivet Nazarene 27
UW-Stevens Point 13, at Webber International 7
Southern Nazarene 42, at Howard Payne 14
at Austin 35, Southwest Assemblies of God 14
5-1 ---------------
Sul Ross State 39, at S.W.A.G. 7
Ferrum 22, at Southern Virginia 16
at UW-Platteville 16, No. 9 St. Ambrose 6
at St. Olaf 45, Valley City State 14
UW-Eau Claire 14, at No. 10 Black Hills State 3
Concordia-Moorhead 41, at Dickinson State 7
11-1 --------------------


Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Just Bill on September 12, 2007, 10:52:08 AM
UW-Stevens Point plays three NAIA teams this season.  In fact, I think if they win all three games they get an automatic bid to the NAIA playoffs.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 12, 2007, 11:23:26 AM
LOL
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: repete on September 12, 2007, 05:07:40 PM
And with a cash guarantee they can host ...
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on September 13, 2007, 03:21:17 PM
Quote from: K-Mack on September 12, 2007, 12:54:25 AM
ATN's Who are those guys year-long running list of inter-classification competition:

vs. NAIA (23-8 in 2006)
Guilford 70, at Southern Virginia 26
Anderson 37, at Taylor 13
at St. Norbert 34, Olivet Nazarene 27
UW-Stevens Point 13, at Webber International 7
Southern Nazarene 42, at Howard Payne 14
at Austin 35, Southwest Assemblies of God 14
5-1 ---------------
Sul Ross State 39, at S.W.A.G. 7
Ferrum 22, at Southern Virginia 16
at UW-Platteville 16, No. 9 St. Ambrose 6
at St. Olaf 45, Valley City State 14
UW-Eau Claire 14, at No. 10 Black Hills State 3
Concordia-Moorhead 41, at Dickinson State 7
11-1 --------------------

The Week 3 slate, according to that wonderful, expertly-written ATN column:

Azusa Pacific at No. 6 UW-La Crosse
LaGrange at Shorter
UW-Stevens Point at Iowa Wesleyan
Taylor at Greenville
Haskell Indian Nations at Redlands
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on September 20, 2007, 12:44:44 AM
ATN's Who Are Those Guys? year-long running list of inter-classification competition:

vs. NAIA (23-8 in 2006)
Guilford 70, at Southern Virginia 26
Anderson 37, at Taylor 13
at St. Norbert 34, Olivet Nazarene 27
UW-Stevens Point 13, at Webber International 7
Southern Nazarene 42, at Howard Payne 14
at Austin 35, Southwest Assemblies of God 14
5-1 ---------------
Sul Ross State 39, at S.W.A.G. 7
Ferrum 22, at Southern Virginia 16
at UW-Platteville 16, No. 9 St. Ambrose 6
at St. Olaf 45, Valley City State 14
UW-Eau Claire 14, at No. 10 Black Hills State 3
Concordia-Moorhead 41, at Dickinson State 7
11-1 --------------------
at No. 6 UW-La Crosse 27, Azusa Pacific 20, OT
at Shorter 38, LaGrange 12
UW-Stevens Point 54, at Iowa Wesleyan 13
Taylor 35, at Greenville 28
at Redlands 42, Haskell Indian Nations 7
14-3 ------------------
Waldorf at UW-Stevens Point
Howard Payne at Texas College
Southern Oregon at Willamette


[/quote]
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: repete on September 23, 2007, 05:24:46 PM
Wasn't sure where else to post it, but here's bad video of a great NAIA finish ...

http://www.vsn360.com/view_video.php?viewkey=aab5298d5da10fe66f21
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 23, 2007, 06:29:51 PM
Quote from: repete on September 23, 2007, 05:24:46 PM
Wasn't sure where else to post it, but here's bad video of a great NAIA finish ...

http://www.vsn360.com/view_video.php?viewkey=aab5298d5da10fe66f21
Great video...Thanks!
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Just Bill on September 25, 2007, 01:26:44 PM
Point defeats Waldorf 55-0 to complete the sweep of NAIA opponents!

Do you believe in probablities?  Yes!!!
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Presto on September 25, 2007, 06:39:45 PM
i played hs ball with someone that went to a naia school. the better naia teams could beat the lesser d3 teams but for the most part i think d3 is better even though they give some scholarships. better degree to.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Presto on September 25, 2007, 06:40:39 PM
yeah cool vid ralph thanks
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 25, 2007, 10:25:52 PM
Quote from: Presto on September 25, 2007, 06:39:45 PM
i played hs ball with someone that went to a naia school. the better naia teams could beat the lesser d3 teams but for the most part i think d3 is better even though they give some scholarships. better degree to.
Presto, a point of clarification...

D3 schools do not give athletic scholarships, and their financial aid profiles to athetes must be within 4% of the aid profile of the general student body. :)
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Presto on September 26, 2007, 08:18:41 AM
i'm sorry ralph i wasn't clear, what i meant to say was:

i played hs ball with someone that went to a naia school. the better naia teams could beat the lesser d3 teams but for the most part i think d3 is better even though the naia can give some scholarships and d3 can't. better degree to.

after rereading it i see i didn't clearly say what i meant, sorry about that and thanks for clarifying.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on September 27, 2007, 09:53:06 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 25, 2007, 10:25:52 PM
Quote from: Presto on September 25, 2007, 06:39:45 PM
i played hs ball with someone that went to a naia school. the better naia teams could beat the lesser d3 teams but for the most part i think d3 is better even though they give some scholarships. better degree to.
Presto, a point of clarification...

D3 schools do not give athletic scholarships, and their financial aid profiles to athetes must be within 4% of the aid profile of the general student body. :)

Yeah, I meant to step in there and say it looks like Presto meant the NAIA can give scholarships.

Good to have Ralph chime in anyway, I didn't know the 4% thing.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on September 28, 2007, 01:42:27 AM
ATN's Who Are Those Guys? year-long running list of inter-classification competition:

vs. NAIA (23-8 in 2006)
Guilford 70, at Southern Virginia 26
Anderson 37, at Taylor 13
at St. Norbert 34, Olivet Nazarene 27
UW-Stevens Point 13, at Webber International 7
Southern Nazarene 42, at Howard Payne 14
at Austin 35, Southwest Assemblies of God 14
5-1 ---------------
Sul Ross State 39, at S.W.A.G. 7
Ferrum 22, at Southern Virginia 16
at UW-Platteville 16, No. 9 St. Ambrose 6
at St. Olaf 45, Valley City State 14
UW-Eau Claire 14, at No. 10 Black Hills State 3
Concordia-Moorhead 41, at Dickinson State 7
11-1 --------------------
at No. 6 UW-La Crosse 27, Azusa Pacific 20, OT
at Shorter 38, LaGrange 12
UW-Stevens Point 54, at Iowa Wesleyan 13
Taylor 35, at Greenville 28
at Redlands 42, Haskell Indian Nations 7
14-3 ------------------
at UW-Stevens Point 55, Waldorf 0
Texas College 33, Howard Payne 27, OT
Southern Oregon 34, at Willamette 27
15-5 ----------------------
---- No update necessary for Weeks 5 or 6
Southern Virginia at Frostburg State
Southern Oregon at No. 20 Linfield
Faulkner at Huntingdon
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: AF4 on October 07, 2007, 09:37:17 PM
Huntingdon will play the first yr program in NAIA, Faulkner University (cross montgomery, al rival) next satuday

today the Huntingdon JV soundly beat the Faulkner JV, 28-18.... sounds close but it was not... They were bigger, faster, and appeared to have many more visible tatoos than the Huntingdon kids... but we played more as a unit/team... we were very well coached

we emptied our bench before the end of the first half

Go Hawks
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: smedindy on October 07, 2007, 09:41:39 PM
Quote from: AF4 on October 07, 2007, 09:37:17 PM
we emptied our bench before the end of the first half

In my viewings of JV games - the benches ALWAYS get emptied!
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: AF4 on October 07, 2007, 09:56:10 PM


i have a >30r gap in my limited knowledge of jv games ( from when i played  until this yr)  so.......your viewing of jv is more learned than mine ...

my point was they were emptied in the first half

thanks

keep the faith

and 

Go Hawks
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: AF4 on October 14, 2007, 12:41:24 AM
Huntingdon Played first yr NAIA Faulkner (and new cross town rival) at Samford Stadium on the Huntingdon campus today, winning 30 - 12. there was a good  crowd, Montgmoery Mayor flipped the coin to start the game, and Huntingdon was presented the first ever battle of montgomery Trophy/Capital City Show Down...or called earlier in the week... The Bird Bowl.. (Hawks vs Eagles)

although a first yr NAIA program, Faulkner had numerous D-1 & D-2 NCAA. and NAIA transfer players

they were bigger and faster than Huntindon, but we played as a more cohesive unit, lots of gang tackling, good fundimental football

Huntingdon held Faulkner fourth and <1 yd on 4 seperate occasions.
  Go Hawks...and keep the faith
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on October 16, 2007, 02:43:19 AM
Thanks for the update.

And isn't it "tase?" Or "taze?" I dunno.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: AF4 on October 16, 2007, 10:18:28 AM


i believe taz...taze.. and tase r all acceptable when u r screaming it

but thanks

u do an awesome job with D3

Go Hawks
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on October 16, 2007, 08:16:23 PM
Quote from: AF4 on October 16, 2007, 10:18:28 AM
i believe taz...taze.. and tase r all acceptable when u r screaming it

Fair enough.

The new quote is pretty funny too.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: ADL70 on November 13, 2007, 10:48:42 PM
Malone (NAIA) v Geneva (DIII Prov) in NCCAA Bowl game.

http://www.geneva.edu/object/io_1194966330112.html
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on January 06, 2008, 03:05:18 AM
FINAL

ATN's Who Are Those Guys? year-long running list of inter-classification competition:

vs. NAIA (23-8 in 2006)
Guilford 70, at Southern Virginia 26
Anderson 37, at Taylor 13
at St. Norbert 34, Olivet Nazarene 27
UW-Stevens Point 13, at Webber International 7
Southern Nazarene 42, at Howard Payne 14
at Austin 35, Southwest Assemblies of God 14
5-1 ---------------
Sul Ross State 39, at S.W.A.G. 7
Ferrum 22, at Southern Virginia 16
at UW-Platteville 16, No. 9 St. Ambrose 6
at St. Olaf 45, Valley City State 14
UW-Eau Claire 14, at No. 10 Black Hills State 3
Concordia-Moorhead 41, at Dickinson State 7
11-1 --------------------
at No. 6 UW-La Crosse 27, Azusa Pacific 20, OT
at Shorter 38, LaGrange 12
UW-Stevens Point 54, at Iowa Wesleyan 13
Taylor 35, at Greenville 28
at Redlands 42, Haskell Indian Nations 7
14-3 ------------------
at UW-Stevens Point 55, Waldorf 0
Texas College 33, Howard Payne 27, OT
Southern Oregon 34, at Willamette 27
15-5 ----------------------
---- No update necessary for Weeks 5 or 6
Week 7:
Southern Virginia 35, at Frostburg State 20
at No. 20 Linfield 30, Southern Oregon 22
at Huntingdon 30, Faulkner 12
17-6 ------
Week 8:
Frostburg St. 28, Union (Ky.) 7
Luther 58, Waldorf 7
19-6 -----
Week 9
at Buena Vista 46, Waldorf 22
Newport News Apprentice 45, So. Virginia 14
21-6 ------
Week 10
Waldorf 29, Minn.-Morris 22
Kentucky Wesleyan 35, LaGrange 21

Week 11 none leaves 21-8 this year's record, 21-9 if you include Malone's 45-17 victory over Geneva in the NCCAA Victory Bowl.

FWIW.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on September 10, 2008, 05:27:50 PM
23-8 in 2006
21-9 in 2007

2008
Week 1 5-2 (though the last four all look like they could've gone either way)
Malone at Newport News, ccd.
Taylor (Ind.) 27, at Anderson 17
at No. 2 UW-Whitewater 24, NAIA No. 8? St. Xavier 9
at Simpson 38, Grand View 21
at UW-Stevens Point 23, Webber International 21
at Southwest Assemblies of God 16, Austin 14
No. 14 UW-Eau Claire 11, at (ranked) Bethel (Tenn.) 6
Louisiana College 17, at Bacone 16

> Games against former UMAC member Trinity Bible, N.D. – this week at Minn.-Morris – don't fall under any of the above classifications. But we might as well track them somewhere, so ...

Week 1
at Minn.-Morris 13, Trinity Bible (N.D.) 0
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on September 10, 2008, 06:48:34 PM
For some reason I just decided to count, and there are 90 NAIA football programs. Felt like sharing.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 10, 2008, 11:15:26 PM
Quote from: K-Mack on September 10, 2008, 06:48:34 PM
For some reason I just decided to count, and there are 90 NAIA football programs. Felt like sharing.
D-III has more than 2.5 times that number!
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: AF4 on September 11, 2008, 11:35:05 AM
Huntingdon will play faulkner (NAIA Southern conf) this sat night at the Cramton Bowl in Montgomery, Al in the Capital City Show Down

Faulkner was over matched by Samford  (D-1FCS SoCon) last sat night (losing 66-0) .....but they r big

they probably out weigh Huntingdon ~35-45lbs across the line...and that is a conservative estimate

we shall see how it lays out

keep the faith
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on September 13, 2008, 07:52:44 PM
This week's slate (halfway updated)

vs. NAIA (5-2 in Week 1)
at No. 4 Mary Hardin-Baylor 30, No. 22 Southern Nazarene 7 (Fri.)
No. 13 Virginia-Wise 42, at Newport News 0
at No. 11 St. Ambrose 34, UW-Platteville 17
at UW-Stout 37, No. 14 Jamestown 13
Iowa Wesleyan at UW-Stevens Point
at Concordia-Moorhead 38, Dickinson State 13
at Bethany 34, Kentucky Christian 19
at Ferrum 34, Southern Virginia 7
Shorter 28, at LaGrange 23
Mayville State at Wisconsin Lutheran
at Howard Payne 20, Texas College 13
at Cumberland (Ky.) 49, Mississippi College 28
Huntingdon at Faulkner
Millsaps at Belhaven
Dakota State at Minnesota-Morris
Southwestern Assemblies of God at Sul Ross State

NAIA rankings come from Victory Sports Network's Sept. 8 poll.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: AF4 on September 13, 2008, 11:19:08 PM
Huntingdon beat Faulkner 21 - 7

was not that close..though... Faulkner had lots of speed... they are better than last yr

keep the faith
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Major Rev on September 14, 2008, 12:45:34 AM
Millsaps beats Belhaven 34-14 in the Riverside Rumble!
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 14, 2008, 08:09:23 AM
SRSU beat SAGU 30-14.

Dakota State beat MN-Morris 40-24.

Mayville 9 Wisconsin Lutheran 7.

UWSP 45, Iowa Wesleyan 7.

I count that as D-III 8 wins, NAIA 6 wins.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on September 14, 2008, 03:53:07 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 14, 2008, 08:09:23 AMI count that as D-III 8 wins, NAIA 6 wins.

That's odd since I counted 16 games.

Let's recap:

vs. NAIA (5-2 in Week 1)
at No. 4 Mary Hardin-Baylor 30, No. 22 Southern Nazarene 7 (Fri.)
No. 13 Virginia-Wise 42, at Newport News 0
at No. 11 St. Ambrose 34, UW-Platteville 17
at UW-Stout 37, No. 14 Jamestown 13
at UW-Stevens Point 45, Iowa Wesleyan 7
at Concordia-Moorhead 38, Dickinson State 13
at Bethany 34, Kentucky Christian 19
at Ferrum 34, Southern Virginia 7
Shorter 28, at LaGrange 23
Mayville State 9, at Wisconsin Lutheran 7
at Howard Payne 20, Texas College 13
at Cumberland (Ky.) 49, Mississippi College 28
Huntingdon 21, at Faulkner 7
Millsaps 34, at Belhaven 14
Dakota State 40, at Minnesota-Morris 24
at Sul Ross State 30, Southwestern Assemblies of God 14

That's 10-6 in favor of D3 by my count.

10-6 in Week 2, 15-8 on the season.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 14, 2008, 05:03:27 PM
Quote from: K-Mack on September 14, 2008, 03:53:07 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 14, 2008, 08:09:23 AMI count that as D-III 8 wins, NAIA 6 wins.

That's odd since I counted 16 games.

Let's recap:

...

That's 10-6 in favor of D3 by my count.

10-6 in Week 2, 15-8 on the season.
Just like the signature line says,

"Mount Union of the message board"

:D  ;)
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Foss on September 20, 2008, 09:48:27 PM
Wow, UW-Oshkosh - a team not really anywhere on the D3 radar - defeats NAIA's #2 Ohio Dominican at their house. This snaps Ohio Dominican's 16 game regular season win streak. Apparently it would have been 17 straight but an illegal participation penalty at the end of the game gave Oshkosh a second chance at the game winning field goal. This would be similar to if UW-Whitewater or Mary Hardin-Baylor lost to a seldom heard of NAIA school.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 20, 2008, 09:58:52 PM
Quote from: Foss on September 20, 2008, 09:48:27 PM
Wow, UW-Oshkosh - a team not really anywhere on the D3 radar - defeats NAIA's #2 Ohio Dominican at their house. This snaps Ohio Dominican's 16 game regular season win streak. Apparently it would have been 17 straight but an illegal participation penalty at the end of the game gave Oshkosh a second chance at the game winning field goal. This would be similar to if UW-Whitewater or Mary Hardin-Baylor lost to a seldom heard of NAIA school.
In its season opener last week, UMHB beat Southern Nazarene, which had played its third game.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on September 21, 2008, 01:51:08 AM
Quote from: Foss on September 20, 2008, 09:48:27 PM
This would be similar to if UW-Whitewater or Mary Hardin-Baylor lost to a seldom heard of NAIA school.

If you believed NAIA and D3 were similar levels, yeah I guess it would.

We've often maintained that it's so hard to compare Division III as a whole, an entity that contains both the WIAC and the UMAC and a lot in between, to the NAIA, which is less than half D3's size as well as the former home to some top D3 programs.

I'm not sure it does any good to argue about who's better so I avoid it. Let the numbers speak for themselves.

Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 20, 2008, 09:58:52 PM
In its season opener last week, UMHB beat Southern Nazarene, which had played its third game.

Perhaps made all the more impressive to me today after watching Salisbury, in its third game, tackle a lot better and run its offense a lot more crisply than Christopher Newport, who is plenty talented but was playing its first game.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on September 21, 2008, 10:04:48 AM
4-2 in Week 3, 19-10 in 2008

UW-Oshkosh 17, at No. 2 Ohio Dominican 16
at Bacone 13, Howard Payne 6
MacMurray 42, at Haskell Indian Nations 26
at Asuza Pacific 13, UW-La Crosse 10
at Washington and Lee 35, Southern Virginia 28
at Willamette 31, Southern Oregon 23
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Foss on September 21, 2008, 12:15:31 PM
Quote from: K-Mack on September 21, 2008, 01:51:08 AM
I'm not sure it does any good to argue about who's better so I avoid it. Let the numbers speak for themselves.

Yeah, I pretty much agree with that.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on September 30, 2008, 09:23:30 AM
Week 4
at UW-SP 10, Azusa Pacific 9
at Linfield 14, Southern Oregon 7
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on October 04, 2008, 06:32:13 PM
Week 5 ... only non-division game vs. any classification (almost an ideal week!)

at? Guilford 47, Southern Va. 31
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on October 16, 2008, 12:27:33 AM
Week 6 results:
Frostburg State 21, at Southern Virginia 13
Luther 31, at Waldorf 0
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on October 29, 2008, 12:50:15 AM
Week 8
BV 41, Waldorf 0
No. 11 Wesley 42, Webber Intl 13
at SOU 40, No. 3 UMHB 28

not sure of the home/aways of the top two, but no one seems to mind. :)
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 29, 2008, 12:53:43 AM
Quote from: K-Mack on October 29, 2008, 12:50:15 AM
Week 8
at BV 41, Waldorf 0
No. 11 Wesley 42, at Webber Intl 13
at SOU 40, No. 3 UMHB 28

not sure of the home/aways of the top two, but no one seems to mind. :)
;)
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on November 25, 2008, 06:17:01 PM

Forfeits knock NW Oklahoma out of NAIA playoffs
    ALVA, Okla. (AP) — Northwestern Oklahoma State will not play its scheduled NAIA quarterfinal game at defending national champion Carroll College on Saturday after discovering that three players were academically ineligible.
    Northwestern forfeit its regular-season games against Bacone and Texas College as well as a postseason game against Friends (Kan.) University because the players competed in those games while ineligible.
    The school said the unidentified players dropped classes during the fall semester that reduced their course load below 12 hours, which is not allowed by the NAIA.
    "Our university community is saddened and embarrassed by the actions we were forced to take today, but we will never compromise the integrity of this university," university president Janet Cunningham said in a statement.
    "Everyone at Northwestern is accountable for ensuring that we follow NAIA rules and institutional policy to the letter."
    Cunningham apologized to the opposing schools involved in the forfeited games, especially Friends, and said a task force would be formed to look into eligibility issues in the athletic department and prevent further compliance problems.
    "I also feel for our players and coaches who will not be allowed to continue their season. They have worked very hard to get to this point but I am confident they understand that we are doing the right thing," Cunningham said.
    Carroll athletic director Bruce Parker said there will be no quarterfinal game, and the Montana school will advance to the semifinals because of the forfeit. The Fighting Saints have won five of the last six NAIA titles, have a 27-game winning streak and are the top-ranked team in the playoffs.
    Northwestern Oklahoma State won its only national title in 1999 and also lost to Carroll in the 2003 title game.
    The NAIA planned to have its National Eligibility Committee review a report from Northwestern Oklahoma State and determine whether any additional sanctions are necessary.
    "It is our understanding that earlier today Northwestern Oklahoma's internal monitoring system detected a violation of NAIA rules and once learning of the violation the administration immediately contacted NAIA officials," NAIA president Jim Carr said in a statement.
    "I know this is a difficult time for the administration, coaches and players but would like to recognize the integrity of the university's administration for taking responsibility to do what was right."
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 25, 2008, 06:38:28 PM
Props to President Cunningham, and I hope that the coaches, the senior athletic compliance/administrator and faculty rep can install a system that prevents that from happening in the future.

I know that coaches are dealing that issue on a perennial basis, as student-athletes "drop the ball" and don't work to stay eligible.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Foss on November 25, 2008, 08:20:18 PM
Interesting. Since their postseason victory is forfeited, why not allow the team they "defeated" (Friends, Kan.) to compete against Carroll College? (who incidentally doesn't need anymore help in winning another NAIA title) I understand game film would be received mid-week, but if overnighted today both universities would have had it by tomorrow. Both would be at an equal disadvantage by not getting the tapes earlier in the week. I imagine cost might have something to do with it since in addition to the expenses for Friends, the NAIA is also possibly looking at cancellation fees for NW Oklahoma. Anyway, just kind of seems like a waste that they don't attempt to allow the school who played by the rules to advance, especially when this was discovered relatively early in the week.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Foss on November 25, 2008, 08:29:53 PM
This partly answers my question. This from the Friends University Athletic website:

The National Administrative Council (NAC) of the NAIA determines the process of competition when violations are reported.  In this instance, after discussion with Friends University administration and the NAIA, it was decided that Carroll College would receive a bye through the quarterfinals of the NAIA national playoff football series.

"It is regrettable that this occurred," said Friends University Athletic Director Joe Zimmerman.  "I know our players and coaches would have embraced an opportunity to continue the season."


Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on March 30, 2009, 02:42:52 PM
I was asked about this, so I thought I'd wrap up the season's final numbers. We were updated through Week 9:

QuoteWho are those guys?

Tracking Division III against competition from other classifications:

vs. NAIA (0-1 in Week 9, 26-13 in 2008)
Minn.-Morris at Waldorf
East Texas Baptist at Azusa Pacific

Week 10
Minn.-Morris 20, at Waldorf 0
at Azusa Pacific 33, ETBU 21

Week 11
at Newport News 37, Southern Va. 14
Trine 34, at Ky. Christian 12

That works out to 29-14.

Since NNA technically is not a D3 (for our purposes, we group them with D3 because they play in a D3 conference), we should subtract their 1-2 record against UVa.-Wise, Webber Int'l and Southern Va. to be more accurate.

So that's 28-13 for 2008.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on March 30, 2009, 03:14:41 PM
From the offseason e-mail & reply files:

Quote----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob"
To: keith@d3football.com
Subject: DIII vs NAIA

Keith—

I was hoping you could help me out.  I had a discussion with a friend this weekend regarding the quality of football in DIII vs. NAIA.  He felt because NAIA offers scholarship money that the football must be of higher quality.  I told him based on my experience that wasn't the case.  I thought at one time I saw on the D3football site that you posted the annual W-L record of DIII schools vs. NAIA.  At any rate, I couldn't find it and wondered if you know the season records for the past several years head-to-head.  Any info would be a big help.  Thanks in advance.

Bob

Hey Bob,
Sorry I don't get a chance to check D3 e-mail much during the offseason.

I think 2005 was much closer to .500, but the inter-classification record the past three years is pretty undeniable:

23-8 in 2006
21-9 in 2007
28-13 in 2008

There are a couple caveats, I think. First, there are about 235 D3 schools and 90 NAIAs, so almost by definition we're made up of a wider range of schools. But the second thing I think is pretty important. Even though Division III can't give athletic scholarships and its general financial aid profile to athletes must be within 4% of what it gives the student body, a good number of Division III schools are very stable institutions with either state support, such as in Wisconsin, N.Y. and N.J., or are private schools with long histories and active alumni bases. Having the support of the NCAA, which makes quite a bit of money from the March Madness TV deal, makes life a lot easier on Division III athletic departments than their similarly-sized counterparts in NAIA.

Also, NAIA teams are allowed 24 scholarships. You know it takes much more than 24 players to field a football team, so the size of those scholarships aren't going to match up to full tuition. In the cases of a Division III school that's well-established, it can come close to or match that money in academic-based or need-based aid, and then use what might be perceived as a superior degree or superior facilities, etc. to make a compelling case.

Hope that helps,

Keith McMillan
National Columnist & Managing Editor
Keith@D3football.com
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: doolittledog on March 30, 2009, 06:20:52 PM
Quote from: K-Mack on March 30, 2009, 02:42:52 PM
I was asked about this, so I thought I'd wrap up the season's final numbers. We were updated through Week 9:

QuoteWho are those guys?

Tracking Division III against competition from other classifications:

vs. NAIA (0-1 in Week 9, 26-13 in 2008)
Minn.-Morris at Waldorf
East Texas Baptist at Azusa Pacific

Week 10
Minn.-Morris 20, at Waldorf 0
at Azusa Pacific 33, ETBU 21

Week 11
at Newport News 37, Southern Va. 14
Trine 34, at Ky. Christian 12

That works out to 29-14.

Since NNA technically is not a D3 (for our purposes, we group them with D3 because they play in a D3 conference), we should subtract their 1-2 record against UVa.-Wise, Webber Int'l and Southern Va. to be more accurate.

So that's 28-13 for 2008.

If they went 1-2 wouldn't that work out to 28-12?
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: WIplayer on April 07, 2009, 01:26:27 PM
Sorry I'm posting this in several places, but is there a message board for the WIAC?  I can't find one.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ron Boerger on April 07, 2009, 02:20:43 PM
(also sent via PM)

WIAC board:

http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=3741.0
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on April 07, 2009, 11:02:28 PM
Quote from: doolittledog on March 30, 2009, 06:20:52 PM
Quote from: K-Mack on March 30, 2009, 02:42:52 PM
I was asked about this, so I thought I'd wrap up the season's final numbers. We were updated through Week 9:

QuoteWho are those guys?

Tracking Division III against competition from other classifications:

vs. NAIA (0-1 in Week 9, 26-13 in 2008)
Minn.-Morris at Waldorf
East Texas Baptist at Azusa Pacific

Week 10
Minn.-Morris 20, at Waldorf 0
at Azusa Pacific 33, ETBU 21

Week 11
at Newport News 37, Southern Va. 14
Trine 34, at Ky. Christian 12

That works out to 29-14.

Since NNA technically is not a D3 (for our purposes, we group them with D3 because they play in a D3 conference), we should subtract their 1-2 record against UVa.-Wise, Webber Int'l and Southern Va. to be more accurate.

So that's 28-13 for 2008.

If they went 1-2 wouldn't that work out to 28-12?

YES!

I probably should update 2007 and 2006 (and if I can find 2005) and subtract NNA too.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on September 09, 2009, 02:54:47 AM
2009 Week 1 ... later for the cleaning up.

vs. NAIA (30-14 in 2008)
No. 2 UW-Whitewater at Dickinson State (Dakota Athletic Conference) W 38-3
Bethel, Tenn. (Mid-South Conference) at UW-Eau Claire W 21-7
Anderson at Taylor (Mid-States Football Association) L 31-16
Newport News at Malone (Mid-States Football Association) L 35-19
Southwestern Assemblies (independent) at Austin W 38-7
Bacone (Mid-South Conference) at Louisana College W 56-21

Dickinson ranked 15th and Malone 25th in the CSTV NAIA coaches' poll

Also:
Minn. Morris at Trinity Bible (S.D.) W 49-0
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: BoBo on September 12, 2009, 09:37:57 PM
UWW had no trouble with NAIA Midland Lutheran College (Fremont NE) 58-0. In a game that wasn't as close as the score indicates  :D, Jeff Donovan was 10-13 & 5 TD's (he and the other starters only played the first half (48-0 at that point).  MLC total offensive amounted to 92 yards.  In 2 games vs scholarship NAIA opponents, the UWW defense has allowed a grand total of 201 yards and 16 first downs.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 13, 2009, 01:44:58 PM
Week #2 for Keith to clean up later...    ;)

Bethany WV 41 Ky Christian 33
#2 UW-Whitewater 58, Midland Lutheran
VA-Wise 48, Newport News 0
Buena Vista 16, Peru St 14
Millsaps 27 Belhaven 10
Concordia-Moorhead 43 Valley City State 28
Rhodes 47 Haskell Indian Nations 16
UW-LaCrosse 49, Azusa Pacific 24
UW-Stout 24 Jamestown 14
Huntingdon 45, Faulkner 12
Cumberlands KY 55 Mississippi College 26
Shorter GA 42, LaGrange 19
Howard Payne 23, Southwestern Assemblies 17
#3 Mary Hardin-Baylor 42 Southern Nazarene 7
Minn-Morris 21 Dakota St 20

Corrections appreciated...




Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on September 15, 2009, 02:44:55 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 13, 2009, 01:44:58 PM
Week #2 for Keith to clean up later...    ;)

Bethany WV 41 Ky Christian 33
#2 UW-Whitewater 58, Midland Lutheran
VA-Wise 48, Newport News 0
Buena Vista 16, Peru St 14
Millsaps 27 Belhaven 10
Concordia-Moorhead 43 Valley City State 28
Rhodes 47 Haskell Indian Nations 16
UW-LaCrosse 49, Azusa Pacific 24
UW-Stout 24 Jamestown 14
Huntingdon 45, Faulkner 12
Cumberlands KY 55 Mississippi College 26
Shorter GA 42, LaGrange 19
Howard Payne 23, Southwestern Assemblies 17
#3 Mary Hardin-Baylor 42 Southern Nazarene 7
Minn-Morris 21 Dakota St 20

Corrections appreciated...

Thanks Ralph. I'll score it like so:

Midland Lutheran (Great Plains Athletic Conference) at No. 2 UW-Whitewater W 58-0
No. 3 Mary Hardin-Baylor at Southern Nazarene (Central States Football League) W 42-7
Cumberlands, Ky. (NAIA No. 6, Mid-South Conference) at Mississippi College L 55-26
LaGrange at Shorter (NAIA No. 11, Mid-South) L 42-19
Newport News Apprentice at U.Va.-Wise (NAIA No. 21, Mid-South) L 48-0
UW-Stout at Jamestown (NAIA No. 24, Dakota Conference) W 24-14
Bethany at Kentucky Christian (Mid-South) W 41-33
Peru State (independent) at Buena Vista W 16-14
Belhaven (Mid-South) at Millsaps W 27-10
Concordia-Moorhead at Valley City State (Dakota) W 43-28
Rhodes at Haskell Indian Nations (independent) W 47-16
Azusa Pacific (independent) at UW-La Crosse W 49-24
Faulkner (independent) at Huntingdon W 45-12
Howard Payne at Southwestern Assemblies of God (Central States) W 23-17
Minnesota-Morris at Dakota State (Dakota) W 21-20

By my count, that's a staggering 12-3 record for Division III, with all three losses coming by unranked D3s against ranked NAIA teams.

Didn't look like too many even matchups though. Maybe Belhaven-Millsaps, I think they've lost that game before. Stout and LaCrosse played good NAIA teams. Buena Vista/Peru might be an even matchup.

I dunno. Kinda cool to look at the scores and see there were still some tight games.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on September 24, 2009, 08:38:20 AM
Week 3
vs. NAIA (12-3 in Week 2; 16-5 in 2009)
Bacone (Mid-South Conference) at Howard Payne W 56-7
Haskell Indian Nations (independent) at MacMurray L 25-22
Willamette at Southern Oregon (independent) W 22-15

Crown 63, Trinity Bible 14 FWIW. I know that doesn't belong here.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on September 29, 2009, 01:13:45 PM
Week 4
vs. NAIA (2-1 in Week 3; 18-6 in 2009)
No. 14 Linfield at Southern Oregon (independent) W 37-21
No. 17 UW-Stevens Point at Azusa Pacific (independent) L 23-7
No. 21/No. 23 Malone (Mid-States Football Association) at Anna Maria L 65-10
Ferrum at Southern Virginia (independent) W 28-21
Ohio Dominican (Mid-States Football Association) at UW-Oshkosh L 31-29
MacMurray at Bethany, Kan. (Kansas Collegiate Athletic Conference) L 63-34

2-4. Not our best showing, though a few more points at Oshkosh would've kept it even.

Also Martin Luther beat Trinity Bible 54-14. Only because I mentioned last week's score above.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on October 07, 2009, 04:36:39 AM
Week 5
Southern Virginia (independent) at Guilford W 48-6
Westminster (Mo.) at Haskell Indian Nations (independent) W 47-14
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: 02 Warhawk on June 14, 2010, 06:13:56 PM
Found this on an NAIA board that was posted recently based off of the 2009 rosters. I'm not sure how to evaluate this b/c I haven't heard of half these NAIA schools. I'm guessing he took the top 10 schools from the 2009 final standings from each division.

I'm guessing we might see ANOTHER mount union-UWW matchup for the championship  8-)


Ok it is on. Mock Playoff:

TOP BRACKET

1 UWW Whitewater
BYE

9 Univ. of Cumberlands [play in game]
8 Central

5 St. Thomas (winner plays UWW/play in winner)
4 St. Xavier

3 Linfield (winner plays Lindenwood/play in winner)
6 Ottawa

10 Coe [play in game]
7 Mid American Nazerene

2 Lindenwood
BYE


BOTTOM BRACKET

1 Sioux Falls
BYE

9 Illinois Wesleyan [play in game]
8 McKendree

5 Morningside (winner plays USF/play in winner)
4 Wesley

3 Carroll College (winner plays Mount Union/play in winner)
6 Wittenberg

10 St.Francis (Ind.) [play in game]
7 Mary Hardin-Baylor

2 Mount Union
BYE
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 14, 2010, 09:14:24 PM
U Cumberlands (http://www.ucumberlands.edu/athletics/football/stats/2008/091308MSCollegeTeam.html) beat Mississippi College 55-26 last season.

Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Kira & Jaxon's Dad on June 14, 2010, 09:20:17 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on June 14, 2010, 09:14:24 PM
U Cumberlands (http://www.ucumberlands.edu/athletics/football/stats/2008/091308MSCollegeTeam.html) beat Mississippi College 55-26 last season.

Or, two years ago:
Quote
MSC vs UC
(09/13/08)
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 14, 2010, 09:38:21 PM
Thanks
Quote from: Manuel Willocq on June 14, 2010, 09:20:17 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on June 14, 2010, 09:14:24 PM
U Cumberlands (http://www.ucumberlands.edu/athletics/football/stats/2008/091308MSCollegeTeam.html) beat Mississippi College 55-26 last season.

Or, two years ago:
Quote
MSC vs UC   28-49
(09/13/08)
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on September 02, 2010, 09:47:02 PM
Quote from: 02 Warhawk on June 14, 2010, 06:13:56 PM
Found this on an NAIA board that was posted recently based off of the 2009 rosters. I'm not sure how to evaluate this b/c I haven't heard of half these NAIA schools. I'm guessing he took the top 10 schools from the 2009 final standings from each division.

I'm guessing we might see ANOTHER mount union-UWW matchup for the championship  8-)

Yeah, funny because I was just reviving the Who Are Those Guys? last night and noticing that the Big Two (Carroll and St. X) in NAIA were ranked 3rd and 4th last year.

I'm sure the NAIA site thinks its teams would win, and I don't know that I honestly know enough about their top teams to do a legit comparison, but I can't imagine I'd learn anything that would make me pick against MUC or UWW, given their recent runs of success.

I think the numbers are pretty convincing over the past four years in favor of D3 in h2h games with NAIA, but there are 240 D3s and 90 NAIAs, so I think we cover a wider gamut and it depends who you put up against who. I'm sure the top NAIA conference would dominate the UMAC in h2h. I bet some of the best NAIAs would go pretty deep into the D3 playoffs, perhaps even win Stagg Bowls. I bet Carroll and MUC share some similar traits, nah mean?

I spend my share of time comparing the two, but I don't really understand what there is to prove.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 08, 2010, 03:48:38 PM
D-3 vs NAIA

Taylor Ind 42, Anderson 20
(Alfred State 22 Newport News 7)

Coe 48 Iowa Wesleyan 21
McMurry 41 Bacone 6
Belhaven 41 LaCollege 34
Austin College 28 Southwestern Assemblies 6
UW-Eau Claire 35, Bethel TN 31
Black Hills State 14 UW-Stout 13 (OT)
Dickinson St 29, Concordia-Moorhead 24

D-III 4 wins, 5 losses.


Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on September 15, 2010, 10:13:54 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 08, 2010, 03:48:38 PM
D-3 vs NAIA

Taylor Ind 42, Anderson 20
(Alfred State 22 Newport News 7)

Coe 48 Iowa Wesleyan 21
McMurry 41 Bacone 6
Belhaven 41 LaCollege 34
Austin College 28 Southwestern Assemblies 6
UW-Eau Claire 35, Bethel TN 31
Black Hills State 14 UW-Stout 13 (OT)
Dickinson St 29, Concordia-Moorhead 24

D-III 4 wins, 5 losses.

There was much pummelage in Week 2:
Dakota State (DAC) 7, at No. 1 UW-Whitewater 70
Olivet Nazarene (Mid-States Football Association) 7, at No. 12 Coe 45
Birmingham-Southern 52, at Faulkner (Mid-South Conference, West) 16
Buena Vista 27 at Peru State (independent) 7
Chapman 10 at Menlo (independent/D3 in 2009) 21
Valley City State (Dakota Athletic Conference) 0, at Concordia-Moorhead 42
Southwest Assemblies of God (Central States Football League) 7 at Howard Payne 32
LaVerne 14 at Azusa Pacific (independent) 59
Texas College (Central States Football League) 0, at McMurry 64
Jamestown (Dakota Athletic Conference) 24, at UW-Stout 27

Looks like 9-2 to me.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: cawcdad on September 15, 2010, 02:30:01 PM
Menlo was D-III Northwest Conference in 2009.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 15, 2010, 05:24:07 PM
Yes. They are independent now. That's the affiliation Keith is listing, 2010 conference affiliation.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: cawcdad on September 15, 2010, 06:01:39 PM
Thanks. Misread it.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 19, 2010, 10:54:53 PM
Week #3

D-III goes 5-2.

Azusa Pacific 46, Whittier 21
Huntingdon 42, Faulkner 10
Westminster MO 42, Haskell 14
Malone 69, Anna Marie 0
Emory and Henry 20, Virginia-Wise 10
UW-Whitewater 37, Campbellsville 7
Willamette 42, Southern Oregon 24

Corrections appreciated.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ryan Tipps on September 19, 2010, 11:56:19 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 19, 2010, 10:54:53 PM
Week #3

D-III goes 5-2.

Azusa Pacific 46, Whittier 21
Huntingdon 42, Faulkner 10
Westminster MO 42, Haskell 14
Malone 69, Anna Marie 0
Emory and Henry 20, Virginia-Wise 10
UW-Whitewater 37, Campbellsville 7
Willamette 42, Southern Oregon 24

Corrections appreciated.

Add one more to that list, Ralph.
Ferrum lost to Southern Virginia University 20-17 on Saturday.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on September 22, 2010, 01:51:01 AM
Yup, that was the list I had, 5-3 ... SouVa's status is weird though. I'm sure the NAIA will take the win.

That makes 5-3 Week 3, 18-10 so far this year; pretty consistently near 2-to-1 D3 over NAIA since '06, fwiw.

vs. NAIA (9-2 in Week 2, 13-7 in 2010)
No. 1 UW-Whitewater at Campbellsville (Mid-South Conference, East)
No. 24 Southern Oregon (independent) at No. 13 Willamette
U.Va.-Wise (Mid-South Conference, East) at Emory & Henry
Southern Virginia (independent) at Ferrum
Huntingdon at Faulkner (Mid-South Conference, West)
Haskell Indian Nations (independent) at Westminster (Mo.)
Whittier at No. 19 Asuza Pacific (independent)
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: BoBo on September 22, 2010, 07:45:11 AM
This from Gregg Easterbrook's page 2 (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/100921_tuesday_morning_quarterback&sportCat=nfl) article on ESPN.com :

"Obscure College Score of the Week: Malone 69, Anna Maria 0. A rare case in which an NAIA school beats up on an NCAA college. Malone ran up a 69-point margin despite Anna Maria not committing a turnover)."
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on September 22, 2010, 01:51:58 PM
Yeah, that game shouldn't even have been played, Malone is a legit NAIA program and Anna Maria is just starting out in one of the weakest conferences in D3.

I have nothing nice to say about Easterbrook, which means I should say nothing at all. Was kinda hoping he'd stop with the obscure score since it's always a backhanded compliment or an outright dis.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: hazzben on October 29, 2010, 08:49:38 PM
K-Mack:

Re: top NAIA v. Top DIII...I'd love to see Carroll and USF against UWW and Mount. Fwiw, USF handled UND last year at UND, I don't know I'd assume we'd come out on top. USF had 13 FCS & FBS transfers this offseason alone. I would love to see it played out though...
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: K-Mack on November 09, 2010, 10:01:59 PM
I'd like to see it too. And WIAC teams have beaten the Dakotas too, so I don't know what to make of that.

Since teams have a hard enough time finding games, I'm surprised these haven't materialized for UWW. For MUC I understand more because they have one open date that opens up once every two years.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: ADL70 on December 19, 2010, 10:16:51 AM
In an eerily parallel universe, Carroll (MT) defeated Sioux Falls for the NAIA championship.  One of those teams has won the title every year since 2002.  There have been other teams in the final, but one of those two has won.

The primary color for each team...purple!

I am aware of eight college games that were played this weekend.  Three were blowouts and five were competitive games.  The three blowouts were bowl games and the five close games were playoff games.

What's so great about the bowl system again?
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: retagent on December 20, 2010, 06:08:04 PM
I read that prior to that game, Souix Falls had a winning streak of 50 games, or something like that. I was under the impression that UWW was the leader in that category. I guess thay are now at any rate.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: BoBo on December 20, 2010, 07:43:11 PM
^ Yes, Carroll (MT) won 10-7 ending SF's 42 game win streak, retagent. The 42 games tied the NAIA consecutive game win streak record. UWW now has the nations longest win streak at 30 games.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: ADL70 on December 20, 2010, 10:16:40 PM
I later read that USF is leaving NAIA for DII next season.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: 02 Warhawk on April 02, 2015, 10:31:29 AM
Looks like a match-up of NAIA and D3 powers are set to collide this season. Morningside #3 in the NAIA will host Whitewater on 9/24. I know it's been discussed a lot over the years if the top NAIA teams can compete with the D3's elite. This should provide a great measuring stick for fans.

I highly doubt this will be a typical blowout NAIA win for the Hawks. This could very well be their toughest game on their schedule.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: SJSUPhil on July 21, 2015, 04:29:44 PM
With all the power that the NCAA has, I'm pleasantly surprised that the NAIA is still around.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Gregory Sager on July 22, 2015, 03:55:22 PM
Preseason #18 UW-Oshkosh will face an NAIA team, Robert Morris-Chicago, on September 5. In spite of being based in Chicago's Loop, the Eagles play off -campus in northwest suburban Arlington Heights. RMUC went 8-3 last season; the Eagles lost a narrow 27-19 decision to UWO in Oshkosh in the season opener for both teams.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: smedindy on July 23, 2015, 01:50:44 PM
Quote from: SJSUPhil on July 21, 2015, 04:29:44 PM
With all the power that the NCAA has, I'm pleasantly surprised that the NAIA is still around.

Some schools would rather not have to deal with rules or standards, I guess!
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Jack Parkman on July 23, 2015, 09:30:41 PM
Quote from: smedindy on July 23, 2015, 01:50:44 PM
Quote from: SJSUPhil on July 21, 2015, 04:29:44 PM
With all the power that the NCAA has, I'm pleasantly surprised that the NAIA is still around.

Some schools would rather not have to deal with rules or standards, I guess!

National Association of Ineligible Athletes
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on July 23, 2015, 11:09:34 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on July 23, 2015, 09:30:41 PM
Quote from: smedindy on July 23, 2015, 01:50:44 PM
Quote from: SJSUPhil on July 21, 2015, 04:29:44 PM
With all the power that the NCAA has, I'm pleasantly surprised that the NAIA is still around.

Some schools would rather not have to deal with rules or standards, I guess!

National Association of Ineligible Athletes

An unfair over-generalization.  I have little doubt that D3 schools on overall average are academically superior to NAIA schools, many schools are not NCAA because they simply cannot afford the minimum teams rules of the NCAA.  I believe NCAA D3 requires 6 sports per gender (5 for truly small enrollment schools);  there are schools that can barely afford 3-4 sports teams.  While such cash-strapped schools will probably, on average, also be unable to hire stellar faculty, let's not go victim-blaming for poverty: some, I'm sure, are excellent educational institutions, with at least some excellent students.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: BoBo on July 24, 2015, 07:59:23 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on July 22, 2015, 03:55:22 PM
Preseason #18 UW-Oshkosh will face an NAIA team, Robert Morris-Chicago, on September 5. In spite of being based in Chicago's Loop, the Eagles play off -campus in northwest suburban Arlington Heights. RMUC went 8-3 last season; the Eagles lost a narrow 27-19 decision to UWO in Oshkosh in the season opener for both teams.

Robert Morris is #20 in the NAIA early poll from April.

Are you sure about that winning team? 

I remember watching that game last year and could swear it was 24-3 RM leading at the half. Then, the Titans closed to within 5 at 24-19 at the end of the third. They were unable to continue the rally and ended up on the losing end of a 27-19 score. I could be wrong, but I think I'm right. You might want to make a correction to your winner in that game.  ;)
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 24, 2015, 10:36:32 AM
Quote from: BoBo on July 24, 2015, 07:59:23 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on July 22, 2015, 03:55:22 PM
Preseason #18 UW-Oshkosh will face an NAIA team, Robert Morris-Chicago, on September 5. In spite of being based in Chicago's Loop, the Eagles play off -campus in northwest suburban Arlington Heights. RMUC went 8-3 last season; the Eagles lost a narrow 27-19 decision to UWO in Oshkosh in the season opener for both teams.

Robert Morris is #20 in the NAIA early poll from April.

Are you sure about that winning team? 

I remember watching that game last year and could swear it was 24-3 RM leading at the half. Then, the Titans closed to within 5 at 24-19 at the end of the third. They were unable to continue the rally and ended up on the losing end of a 27-19 score. I could be wrong, but I think I'm right. You might want to make a correction to your winner in that game.  ;)

Not sure what your post is getting at, BoBo, but I believe you and Gregory both said UWO lost that game.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Jack Parkman on July 24, 2015, 01:03:08 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on July 23, 2015, 11:09:34 PM
Quote from: Jack Parkman on July 23, 2015, 09:30:41 PM
Quote from: smedindy on July 23, 2015, 01:50:44 PM
Quote from: SJSUPhil on July 21, 2015, 04:29:44 PM
With all the power that the NCAA has, I'm pleasantly surprised that the NAIA is still around.

Some schools would rather not have to deal with rules or standards, I guess!

National Association of Ineligible Athletes

An unfair over-generalization.  I have little doubt that D3 schools on overall average are academically superior to NAIA schools, many schools are not NCAA because they simply cannot afford the minimum teams rules of the NCAA.  I believe NCAA D3 requires 6 sports per gender (5 for truly small enrollment schools);  there are schools that can barely afford 3-4 sports teams.  While such cash-strapped schools will probably, on average, also be unable to hire stellar faculty, let's not go victim-blaming for poverty: some, I'm sure, are excellent educational institutions, with at least some excellent students.

Just a joke, that is all.  I've been around both NAIA and D3 and both have plenty of great schools.  NAIA seems to have a higher number of "bounce-back" guys on their rosters.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: BoBo on July 24, 2015, 09:10:28 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on July 24, 2015, 10:36:32 AM
Quote from: BoBo on July 24, 2015, 07:59:23 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on July 22, 2015, 03:55:22 PM
Preseason #18 UW-Oshkosh will face an NAIA team, Robert Morris-Chicago, on September 5. In spite of being based in Chicago's Loop, the Eagles play off -campus in northwest suburban Arlington Heights. RMUC went 8-3 last season; the Eagles lost a narrow 27-19 decision to UWO in Oshkosh in the season opener for both teams.

Robert Morris is #20 in the NAIA early poll from April.

Are you sure about that winning team? 

I remember watching that game last year and could swear it was 24-3 RM leading at the half. Then, the Titans closed to within 5 at 24-19 at the end of the third. They were unable to continue the rally and ended up on the losing end of a 27-19 score. I could be wrong, but I think I'm right. You might want to make a correction to your winner in that game.  ;)

Not sure what your post is getting at, BoBo, but I believe you and Gregory both said UWO lost that game.

What am I getting at?  Seriously, dude, Mr. Coleman? That's a head scratcher.

Mr. Gregory said:
Quotethe Eagles lost a narrow 27-19 decision to UWO in Oshkosh in the season opener for both teams.
= Oshkosh wins, Eagles [Robert Morris] loses

BoBo: 
QuoteThey [UWO] were unable to continue the rally and ended up on the losing end of a 27-19 score.
= Robert Morris wins, They [UWO] loses.

The correct score was Robert Morris in a narrow VICTORY 27-19 over UWO at Oshkosh. And when you think about it, it wasn't really that narrow, they led the entire game.
BX from d3Football.com: http://www.d3football.com/seasons/2014/boxscores/20140906_vd39.xml shows it went exactly the way I described it!!

That's about as clear as day...do you still believe we both said Oshkosh lost? AND, you're the professional journalist. Wow is all I can say.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: bulk19 on July 24, 2015, 09:26:59 PM
Hey BoBo -
How you doing on the UWL QB stat correction that you said you'd get back to us on?
;D
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 24, 2015, 10:40:56 PM
Quote from: BoBo on July 24, 2015, 09:10:28 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on July 24, 2015, 10:36:32 AM
Quote from: BoBo on July 24, 2015, 07:59:23 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on July 22, 2015, 03:55:22 PM
Preseason #18 UW-Oshkosh will face an NAIA team, Robert Morris-Chicago, on September 5. In spite of being based in Chicago's Loop, the Eagles play off -campus in northwest suburban Arlington Heights. RMUC went 8-3 last season; the Eagles lost a narrow 27-19 decision to UWO in Oshkosh in the season opener for both teams.

Robert Morris is #20 in the NAIA early poll from April.

Are you sure about that winning team? 

I remember watching that game last year and could swear it was 24-3 RM leading at the half. Then, the Titans closed to within 5 at 24-19 at the end of the third. They were unable to continue the rally and ended up on the losing end of a 27-19 score. I could be wrong, but I think I'm right. You might want to make a correction to your winner in that game.  ;)

Not sure what your post is getting at, BoBo, but I believe you and Gregory both said UWO lost that game.

What am I getting at?  Seriously, dude, Mr. Coleman? That's a head scratcher.

Mr. Gregory said:
Quotethe Eagles lost a narrow 27-19 decision to UWO in Oshkosh in the season opener for both teams.
= Oshkosh wins, Eagles [Robert Morris] loses

BoBo: 
QuoteThey [UWO] were unable to continue the rally and ended up on the losing end of a 27-19 score.
= Robert Morris wins, They [UWO] loses.

The correct score was Robert Morris in a narrow VICTORY 27-19 over UWO at Oshkosh. And when you think about it, it wasn't really that narrow, they led the entire game.
BX from d3Football.com: http://www.d3football.com/seasons/2014/boxscores/20140906_vd39.xml shows it went exactly the way I described it!!

That's about as clear as day...do you still believe we both said Oshkosh lost? AND, you're the professional journalist. Wow is all I can say.

Yep, you're right, I misread. But thanks for the point-by-point rebuttal on a one-point post. Good job!
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: 02 Warhawk on September 18, 2015, 01:27:46 PM
Seems like both D3 and NAIA fans are eye balling next week's game between UWW#1 and Morningside#2. I found this NAIA message board where they started a Morningside vs. Whitewater (http://www.victorysportsnetwork.com/Forum/viewtopic/topic/71689/start/0#pid719042) thread way back on the 9th, and the game isn't until the 24th.

I'll be interested to read NAIA fan's analysis about these two heavy weights squaring off.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 21, 2015, 01:09:22 PM
Quote from: 02 Warhawk on September 18, 2015, 01:27:46 PM
Seems like both D3 and NAIA fans are eye balling next week's game between UWW#1 and Morningside#2. I found this NAIA message board where they started a Morningside vs. Whitewater (http://www.victorysportsnetwork.com/Forum/viewtopic/topic/71689/start/0#pid719042) thread way back on the 9th, and the game isn't until the 24th.

I'll be interested to read NAIA fan's analysis about these two heavy weights squaring off.
D3fans must give a tip of the hat to Pat Coleman who created the conference and general topic discipline on these message boards. The VSN/NAIA and D2 message boards are unbridled chaos and make no sense to the occasional reader.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: 02 Warhawk on September 24, 2015, 09:58:44 AM
After being dormant most of the week, it looks like the NAIA board is starting to buzz about the game.

As one NAIA fan posted:

QuoteMorningside is definitely a Top 10 team in NAIA, maybe even Top 5, but this year they've gone 3-0 agianst teams with a combined record of 1-7.  They continue to put up XBox numbers every year because they don't play anyone with the possible exception of Northwestern.

My concern is they will be touted on the ESPN broadcast as the "#1 team in NAIA", because that's where the coaches' poll has put them.  If UW-W smokes them, that makes NAIA look like D-IV football when our "#1 team" can't compete with a D-III team, despite the countless examples of NAIA schools competitng with and/or beating other D-II teams.

For the exposure, marketing, and potential recruiting advantages it may provide the NAIA, I hope M'Side wins big... but I'm not holding my breath.  UW-W by 13


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: 02 Warhawk on September 24, 2015, 10:40:19 PM
The D3 world is standing a little taller today.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: 02 Warhawk on September 25, 2015, 08:53:08 AM
In the post game interview I heard Pat mention that Morningside (I assume all NAIA football programs) has 24 scholarship players on their roster. Now are we talking full rides? Or just partial scholarships?
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Teamski on September 25, 2015, 09:34:51 AM
I would love to see this sort of match-up more often.  It certainly shows that the NAIA is not a joke when it comes to quality teams at the top of the rankings.  Morningside was no pushover and if they hadn't had the turnovers early who knows what would have happened (although I think UWW would have simply continued to control the ball with Ratliffe running the way he was).  I really enjoyed the game and was rooting for the Warhawks big time.  Good stuff!

-Ski
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: jknezek on September 25, 2015, 09:44:51 AM
Yeah. I really want to see this game in better conditions. Both teams had what I consider weather related miscues and I think a good day for football would have made both teams even more explosive. Morningside had the chops, UWW just had a bit more on the night to my distinct pleasure. It will be interesting to see where Morningside finishes this year. Is this really the best of the NAIA or once again a top 5 team that doesn't get over the hump? Given Morningside gave UWW almost everything they could handle, even a slightly better team would be hard for anyone in DIII to top...

Marian beat Morningside pretty handily last year before Southern Oregon handled Marian pretty well in the finals. Last year isn't this year, and you have to respect that Morningside was/is #1 according to the NAIA coaches poll, but it will be interesting to see if they come good in the NAIA championships.

Heck of a good game. Good for UWW, good for DIII, good entertainment for fans (other than the weather). Congratulations UWW. You did DIII proud and look, once again, like an unstoppable force. Is there an immoveable object somewhere in DIII up to the challenge?
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 25, 2015, 07:51:18 PM
Quote from: 02 Warhawk on September 25, 2015, 08:53:08 AM
In the post game interview I heard Pat mention that Morningside (I assume all NAIA football programs) has 24 scholarship players on their roster. Now are we talking full rides? Or just partial scholarships?

The NAIA limit is 24 scholarships. While it's certainly possible there might be one or two guys who get a full ride out of it, generally the convention is to split those up and award a bunch of partial scholarships.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: bleedpurple on September 27, 2015, 12:57:12 AM
Quote from: jknezek on September 25, 2015, 09:44:51 AM
Yeah. I really want to see this game in better conditions. Both teams had what I consider weather related miscues and I think a good day for football would have made both teams even more explosive. Morningside had the chops, UWW just had a bit more on the night to my distinct pleasure. It will be interesting to see where Morningside finishes this year. Is this really the best of the NAIA or once again a top 5 team that doesn't get over the hump? Given Morningside gave UWW almost everything they could handle, even a slightly better team would be hard for anyone in DIII to top...

Marian beat Morningside pretty handily last year before Southern Oregon handled Marian pretty well in the finals. Last year isn't this year, and you have to respect that Morningside was/is #1 according to the NAIA coaches poll, but it will be interesting to see if they come good in the NAIA championships.

Heck of a good game. Good for UWW, good for DIII, good entertainment for fans (other than the weather). Congratulations UWW. You did DIII proud and look, once again, like an unstoppable force. Is there an immoveable object somewhere in DIII up to the challenge?

Morningside is very good.  I believe the team I saw on Thursday night would be up in the UW-W, MU, Linfield, UMHB, Wesley stratosphere in DIII. Whether they are the best or not in NAIA, I have no way of knowing.  Programs also have peaks and valleys. Southern Oregon was a beast last year apparently. Maybe they are this year, but they already lost. Also, in 2012 they lost to Morningside, and in 2011, they lost 31-9 to Willamette.  So, taking a broader view, I don't think there's any evidence at all that the top NAIA team would dominate D-III teams.  If Southern Oregon folks think differently, they can always give UW-W a call. I know they need a game in 2016.  I don't know if we still have the 500 mile travel cap.  But I'm sure they'd take games if there was a way to work out the home and home and if that type of travel is allowed again by the Wisconsin powers that be.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: wildcat11 on September 27, 2015, 01:02:22 AM
Quote from: bleedpurple on September 27, 2015, 12:57:12 AM
If Southern Oregon folks think differently, they can always give UW-W a call.

They already took a pass on playing Linfield in 2016 so doubt they'll be ringing up UWW.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: 02 Warhawk on September 29, 2015, 11:02:59 PM
Quote from: 02 Warhawk on September 18, 2015, 01:27:46 PM
Seems like both D3 and NAIA fans are eye balling next week's game between UWW#1 and Morningside#2. I found this NAIA message board where they started a Morningside vs. Whitewater (http://www.victorysportsnetwork.com/Forum/viewtopic/topic/71689/start/0#pid719042) thread way back on the 9th, and the game isn't until the 24th.

I'll be interested to read NAIA fan's analysis about these two heavy weights squaring off.

Kind of funny, I'm finding it hard to find reading material from a NAIA perspective about morningside losing to UWW. The naia site talks about them dropping to 4th, but never says why. Even pat's NAIA friend hasn't written about the game on his blog. Almost like they are pretending it never happened.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Teamski on September 30, 2015, 10:05:20 AM
Quote from: bleedpurple on September 27, 2015, 12:57:12 AM
Quote from: jknezek on September 25, 2015, 09:44:51 AM
Yeah. I really want to see this game in better conditions. Both teams had what I consider weather related miscues and I think a good day for football would have made both teams even more explosive. Morningside had the chops, UWW just had a bit more on the night to my distinct pleasure. It will be interesting to see where Morningside finishes this year. Is this really the best of the NAIA or once again a top 5 team that doesn't get over the hump? Given Morningside gave UWW almost everything they could handle, even a slightly better team would be hard for anyone in DIII to top...

Marian beat Morningside pretty handily last year before Southern Oregon handled Marian pretty well in the finals. Last year isn't this year, and you have to respect that Morningside was/is #1 according to the NAIA coaches poll, but it will be interesting to see if they come good in the NAIA championships.

Heck of a good game. Good for UWW, good for DIII, good entertainment for fans (other than the weather). Congratulations UWW. You did DIII proud and look, once again, like an unstoppable force. Is there an immoveable object somewhere in DIII up to the challenge?

Morningside is very good.  I believe the team I saw on Thursday night would be up in the UW-W, MU, Linfield, UMHB, Wesley stratosphere in DIII. Whether they are the best or not in NAIA, I have no way of knowing.  Programs also have peaks and valleys. Southern Oregon was a beast last year apparently. Maybe they are this year, but they already lost. Also, in 2012 they lost to Morningside, and in 2011, they lost 31-9 to Willamette.  So, taking a broader view, I don't think there's any evidence at all that the top NAIA team would dominate D-III teams.  If Southern Oregon folks think differently, they can always give UW-W a call. I know they need a game in 2016.  I don't know if we still have the 500 mile travel cap.  But I'm sure they'd take games if there was a way to work out the home and home and if that type of travel is allowed again by the Wisconsin powers that be.

The NAIA is kinda interesting.  There is such a HUGE spread in the quality of the teams from top to bottom.  Probably even more so than DIII.  There are a lot of NAIA teams that would get stomped by most DIII teams, while at the top, the NAIA is quite good (with scholarships of course).  The NAIA should probably be broken down into two to three divisions.  Just my impression.

-Ski
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: cawcdad on September 30, 2015, 12:57:47 PM
NAIA has two divisions for basketball. I do not believe there are enough NAIA schools playing football to allow for two or more divisions.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on September 30, 2015, 01:18:57 PM
The NAIA had two divisions for football until about the mid 90s when they went down to one because they didn't have enough teams to justify two divisions anymore.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: bleedpurple on September 30, 2015, 02:41:11 PM
Quote from: wildcat11 on September 27, 2015, 01:02:22 AM
Quote from: bleedpurple on September 27, 2015, 12:57:12 AM
If Southern Oregon folks think differently, they can always give UW-W a call.

They already took a pass on playing Linfield in 2016 so doubt they'll be ringing up UWW.

No kidding.  Well there ya' go.  Now that I think about it, UW-W's opening is in 2017.  But obviously it wouldn't have mattered.  If they don't want to play the Cats, that is their right (even though frustrating).  But then don't even hint at being a superior team or program.  Maybe they don't, but NAIA supporters who post on the message boards over there sure would.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: hazzben on October 01, 2015, 12:56:33 PM
Quote from: Teamski on September 30, 2015, 10:05:20 AM

The NAIA is kinda interesting.  There is such a HUGE spread in the quality of the teams from top to bottom.  Probably even more so than DIII.  There are a lot of NAIA teams that would get stomped by most DIII teams, while at the top, the NAIA is quite good (with scholarships of course).  The NAIA should probably be broken down into two to three divisions.  Just my impression.

-Ski

Not sure about the bolded portion. There are also a lot of DIII teams that would get stomped by most NAIA teams. I think the gap between the top and bottom is pretty extreme in both. I like to think the average DIII team is better than the average NAIA. But that's just conjecture. I also like to think our Top 50 is more competitive than theirs, from an intra-division standpoint. But again, that's just, like, my opinion man  :)
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: DFWCrufan on November 05, 2015, 10:59:08 PM
From what I understand, Linfield and UMHB are scheduled to play 2016-17...If UW W knew about that it could be a reason they passed. but that is conjecture.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 06, 2015, 12:10:04 PM
Quote from: DFWCrufan on November 05, 2015, 10:59:08 PM
From what I understand, Linfield and UMHB are scheduled to play 2016-17...If UW W knew about that it could be a reason they passed. but that is conjecture.
Props to Linfield!

They have always been willing to travel to play ASC teams. HSU, UMHB are the two that I recall over the last 15 years.

(And their baseball fans that I have met in the Regionals are wonderful too.)
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 08, 2017, 12:24:39 AM
Let's revive this thread:

Vs D-1   (0-1)

Campbell 70 Methodist 0

Vs D-2  (1-0)

Sul Ross State 47  UT-Permian Basin 22

Vs NAIA  (5-3)

North Central IL  33, Robert Morris IL  31
Buena Vista 31, Mayville St (SD)  27
Okla Panhandle State 10, McMurry 0
Austin 31, Bacone OK 18
Trinity International 58, Wisconsin Lutheran 21
Louisiana Coll 59, Wayland Baptist 20
Hendrix 56, Lyon Ark 28
Southwestern Assemblies 63, Howard Payne 34

Vs Other  (0-1)

Apprentice 39, Greensboro 7



Corrections are appreciated.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Teamski on September 08, 2018, 07:57:11 PM
Wow.  DIII got bitch slapped by the NAIA today!  Ouch!

No. 4 UW-Oshkosh    3    Davenport    7
No. 6 Linfield    14    Carroll (Mont.)    21
St. Scholastica    29    Mayville St.    33
Buena Vista    20    Concordia (Neb.)    27
Crown    14    Presentation    42
Austin    14    Wayland Baptist    24

-Ski
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: jamtod on September 09, 2018, 10:31:41 AM
Quote from: Teamski on September 08, 2018, 07:57:11 PM
Wow.  DIII got bitch slapped by the NAIA today!  Ouch!

No. 4 UW-Oshkosh    3    Davenport    7
No. 6 Linfield    14    Carroll (Mont.)    21
St. Scholastica    29    Mayville St.    33
Buena Vista    20    Concordia (Neb.)    27
Crown    14    Presentation    42
Austin    14    Wayland Baptist    24

-Ski

Add one for the good guys from last week (there were probably others also)
St Thomas 76 Trinity International 7
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: ADL70 on September 09, 2018, 12:40:50 PM
These weren't any better.

Anderson was shellacked by start-up NAIA Indiana Wesleyan, 61-6.

Valley City 48 Minn-Morris 0

Arizona Christian 67  Whittier 42


Davenport is in its third and final year of transition to NCAA DII
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Captain_Joe08 on September 09, 2018, 01:13:47 PM
Also.....

Lawrence Tech (NAIA) 30 Wisconsin Lutheran 22
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: bleedpurple on September 18, 2019, 03:10:12 PM
This week #3 UW-W travels to NAIA #5 St. Xavier in Chicago. A few years ago we played a highly competitive home and home series against Morningside, IA. The first year we played, 2015, it was a #1 vs #1 match-up. Jordan Ratliffe scored on a 6 yard run to give UW-W the 33-30 victory.  In 2016, at UW-W, the Warhawks never trailed and won 35-21.

Hopefully, this weekend will be marked by more NCAA success. Go Warhawks!
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Baldini on October 25, 2019, 12:22:57 PM
Vs. D-1 (FCS)  (0-4)

Stetson 58  Louisiana College 13
Georgetown 69  Catholic 0
Stetson 59  Western New England 28
Stetson 55  N.C. Wesleyan 21

Vs. D-2  (1-2)

Wesley 69  Franklin Pierce 0
Franklin Pierce 29  Curry 27
Texas A&M-Kingsville 72  Sul Ross State 0

Vs. NAIA  (11-6)

St. Thomas 69  Trinity International 3
St. Scholastica 42  Mayville St. 35  OT
Hendrix 28  Lyon 20
Lawrence Tech 34  Wisconsin Lutheran 14
St. Scholastica 41  Presentation 13
Anderson 27  Cincinnati Christian 23
Austin 27  Southwestern Assemblies 26
Buena Vista 27  Concordia (Neb.) 24
Valley City State 67  Minnesota-Morris 7
UW-Whitewater 28  St. Xavier 20
UW-Platteville 41  Thomas More 10
Dickinson St. 23  UW-La Crosse 17
Waldorf 27  UW-River Falls 24
Dakota St. 38  UW-Stevens Point 21
Brevard 40  Allen 9
Emory and Henry 49  Bluefield 21
Olivet Nazarene 69  Greenville 8

Vs. USCAA  (3-3)

Apprentice 23  Greensboro 8
Apprentice 49  Gallaudet 13
LaGrange 50  Apprentice 13
Apprentice 35  Anna Maria 20
Southern Virginia 40  Apprentice 7
Randolph-Macon 35  Apprentice 3

*Updated as of 11/23 and unaware of any other games yet to be played.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Baldini on November 19, 2019, 09:49:20 AM
Southern Virginia defeated Apprentice 40-7, but this is not the last game against non D-3 opponents. I was unaware of the deal that the ODAC and Apprentice have to play a Bowl game at the conclusion of the regular season. Randolph-Macon will play Apprentice on Saturday in the Neptune Bowl at Virginia Beach Sportsplex.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on November 19, 2019, 12:05:51 PM
There is another one Saturday when Greenville hosts NAIA Olivet Nazarene in the NCCAA's victory bowl.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Baldini on November 23, 2019, 07:10:21 PM
Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on November 19, 2019, 12:05:51 PM
There is another one Saturday when Greenville hosts NAIA Olivet Nazarene in the NCCAA's victory bowl.

Thanks for the heads up HC, final score has been added above.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: sjujohnnie on December 04, 2019, 12:28:00 PM
Earlier this season, on September 21st, Whitewater (ranked #3 at the time) played at NAIA #5 St Xavier & won 28-20. St Xavier lost to NAIA #1 Morningside this past Saturday (November 30th), 51-0. St Xavier was ranked #9 at the time of their semifinal matchup at Morningside. To win it all at the NAIA level, teams would need to win four games - first round, semifinal, quarterfinal, & championship. It looks as if Morningside will win it all again for a second-straight season. Since Sioux Falls moved to Division II 9 years ago, Morningside is 75-3 in conference games having won 43 straight & is 88-5 in regular-season matchups. They are on a 27 game winning streak. I often wish the top 25 of the NAIA would merge with the top of Division III. Morningside, however, appears to be head & shoulders above the rest of it's competition.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Baldini on December 04, 2019, 05:59:00 PM
Quote from: sjujohnnie on December 04, 2019, 12:28:00 PM
Earlier this season, on September 21st, Whitewater (ranked #3 at the time) played at NAIA #5 St Xavier & won 28-20. St Xavier lost to NAIA #1 Morningside this past Saturday (November 30th), 51-0. St Xavier was ranked #9 at the time of their semifinal matchup at Morningside. To win it all at the NAIA level, teams would need to win four games - first round, semifinal, quarterfinal, & championship. It looks as if Morningside will win it all again for a second-straight season. Since Sioux Falls moved to Division II 9 years ago, Morningside is 75-3 in conference games having won 43 straight & is 88-5 in regular-season matchups. They are on a 27 game winning streak. I often wish the top 25 of the NAIA would merge with the top of Division III. Morningside, however, appears to be head & shoulders above the rest of it's competition.

I hope this doesn't sound like I'm being negative about Morningside's accomplishments because what that program has done is very impressive, but as great as they have been in conference play it has not always been the case in the playoffs. Last year was their first ever title and this year is no gimme either. The winner of the Mideast division of the Mid-States conference (St. Francis (Ind.) or Marian (Ind.) ) has won 3 of the last 4 titles and an 11-0 Marian plays Linsey Wilson in the other semi-final on Saturday. Morningside should handle Grand View, but the title game will be no walk in the park. In last years semi's St. Francis took Morningside to OT before losing 34-28 and the final was a 35-28 result against Benedictine (Kan.). Also worth noting is that Morningside beat St. Xavier in the 1st round last year 51-14.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: sjujohnnie on December 04, 2019, 10:48:09 PM
It's unfortunate that all we can do is speculate how a program like Morningside (or Northwestern who was ranked #5 when they faced Morningside) would fare against the top competition in Division III. Is it comparable to how Mount Union is rarely tested until late playoff rounds or often only in the Stagg? My wife graduated from Morningside prior to Steve Ryan taking the helm. While she was there they were a Division II doormat. I graduated from St John's in '03 & always wonder how Morningside would do against St John's!
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Baldini on December 04, 2019, 11:31:35 PM
They would be very good games I am sure. Morningside did play a home and home with UW-Whitewater in 2015-16, so we know that Morningside will travel down that road. Would St. John's go down that road is doubtful. If a review of the past 10 seasons tells us anything it is that St. John's is careful about keeping the non-conference schedule on the easier side. Which is certainly their right to do so if they prefer it that way.

In 2015 UW-W defeated Morningside 33-30 and ironically they both lost in the semi's of their championships. In 2016 UW-W again defeated Morningside this time with the score 35-21 and irony struck again as both were eliminated in the quarter finals of their championships.   
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: sjujohnnie on December 07, 2019, 04:53:09 PM
#1 Morningside defeated #4 Grand View 21-16 to earn another trip to the NAIA national championship game.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Baldini on December 07, 2019, 05:05:27 PM
I saw that, a little closer than I thought it would be. Marion defeated Lindley Wilson 34-24 in the other game setting up a #1 vs. #2 championship match-up next week. 
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: sjujohnnie on December 07, 2019, 08:31:46 PM
Appears to be much easier to win a title at the NAIA level vs Division III! Basically have to be ranked in the top 16 of their poll & then win 4 games in 5 weeks & it's reseeded weekly. Actually Morninside & Marian will get a week off before meeting in the title game on Saturday, December 21st at Eddie Robinson Stadium on the campus of Grambling.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: sjujohnnie on December 07, 2019, 09:02:14 PM
Whitewater's win over UMHB ended UMHB's 27-game win streak. I believe Morningside, who won their 28th straight game today, leads all levels.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: sjujohnnie on December 07, 2019, 09:08:48 PM
I was corrected on the MIAC board. NDSU has an active 34-game winning streak.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: hazzben on December 07, 2019, 11:36:35 PM
Quote from: Baldini on December 04, 2019, 11:31:35 PM
If a review of the past 10 seasons tells us anything it is that St. John's is careful about keeping the non-conference schedule on the easier side. Which is certainly their right to do so if they prefer it that way.

That's not a fair assessment. First, SJU has a hard time getting teams to pick up the phone for non-con games. Second, playing in a tough league also means you probably don't want to go out and schedule Top 15 teams for non-con from a sheer attrition standpoint. Case in point, they will be playing their 14th game of the season next week, which will have involved a ton a good to really good d3 football teams (Wheaton, Chapman, Aurora, two WIAC teams, UST, Concordia, St. Olaf, GAC, and Bethel).
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Baldini on December 08, 2019, 10:15:06 AM
Quote from: hazzben on December 07, 2019, 11:36:35 PM
Quote from: Baldini on December 04, 2019, 11:31:35 PM
If a review of the past 10 seasons tells us anything it is that St. John's is careful about keeping the non-conference schedule on the easier side. Which is certainly their right to do so if they prefer it that way.

That's not a fair assessment. First, SJU has a hard time getting teams to pick up the phone for non-con games. Second, playing in a tough league also means you probably don't want to go out and schedule Top 15 teams for non-con from a sheer attrition standpoint. Case in point, they will be playing their 14th game of the season next week, which will have involved a ton a good to really good d3 football teams (Wheaton, Chapman, Aurora, two WIAC teams, UST, Concordia, St. Olaf, GAC, and Bethel).

First off I am not claiming I would do anything different than St. John's already does, but I don't think it is an unfair assessment at all. Secondly, I am not buying this narrative that they can't get teams to pick up the phone for non-conference games either. The teams in the UMAC and some other lesser talented teams in other conferences don't return their calls because they don't want a 98-0 St. Scholastica seal clubbing that St. John's wants to lay on someone. But UW-LC, UW-O, UW-WW and UW-P all need games every year and end up traveling great distances to play very good teams, you really believe they won't pick up the phone if St. John's calls? There is a bunch of good NAIA schools that are in dire need of games every year and are fairly good fits for St. John's. Dickinson St. played UW-LC this season (and beat them), Valley City would be a great game for them, UW-WW played St. Xavier in a very good game and they also played Morningside a few years back which was noted earlier. Those are just a few examples of pages I could type here.

Again, I don't blame them for doing things the way they do. I think their is some good reasons to schedule strong and good reasons not to, but don't be surprised if someone calls BS on claims that they can't get anyone to schedule them. Or like the person claiming on the MIAC board that they didn't want Macalester back because they didn't want another 'creampuff' on the schedule.

So which is it, they need to schedule softer because of the 'attrition standpoint' or the schedule has too many 'creampuffs'? Because when people are claiming both it is just a chronic bitching session.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: hazzben on December 08, 2019, 04:49:01 PM
Quote from: Baldini on December 08, 2019, 10:15:06 AM
Quote from: hazzben on December 07, 2019, 11:36:35 PM
Quote from: Baldini on December 04, 2019, 11:31:35 PM
If a review of the past 10 seasons tells us anything it is that St. John's is careful about keeping the non-conference schedule on the easier side. Which is certainly their right to do so if they prefer it that way.

That's not a fair assessment. First, SJU has a hard time getting teams to pick up the phone for non-con games. Second, playing in a tough league also means you probably don't want to go out and schedule Top 15 teams for non-con from a sheer attrition standpoint. Case in point, they will be playing their 14th game of the season next week, which will have involved a ton a good to really good d3 football teams (Wheaton, Chapman, Aurora, two WIAC teams, UST, Concordia, St. Olaf, GAC, and Bethel).

First off I am not claiming I would do anything different than St. John's already does, but I don't think it is an unfair assessment at all. Secondly, I am not buying this narrative that they can't get teams to pick up the phone for non-conference games either. The teams in the UMAC and some other lesser talented teams in other conferences don't return their calls because they don't want a 98-0 St. Scholastica seal clubbing that St. John's wants to lay on someone. But UW-LC, UW-O, UW-WW and UW-P all need games every year and end up traveling great distances to play very good teams, you really believe they won't pick up the phone if St. John's calls? There is a bunch of good NAIA schools that are in dire need of games every year and are fairly good fits for St. John's. Dickinson St. played UW-LC this season (and beat them), Valley City would be a great game for them, UW-WW played St. Xavier in a very good game and they also played Morningside a few years back which was noted earlier. Those are just a few examples of pages I could type here.

Again, I don't blame them for doing things the way they do. I think their is some good reasons to schedule strong and good reasons not to, but don't be surprised if someone calls BS on claims that they can't get anyone to schedule them. Or like the person claiming on the MIAC board that they didn't want Macalester back because they didn't want another 'creampuff' on the schedule.

So which is it, they need to schedule softer because of the 'attrition standpoint' or the schedule has too many 'creampuffs'? Because when people are claiming both it is just a chronic bitching session.

::) ::)

Let me try again.

For a team like SJU, that has aspirations of playing deep into the postseason, it's wise to be cognizant of sheer the volume of Top 40ish caliber teams you'll play. Football is a brutally violent/physical sport and the potential of a 13+ game schedule is daunting. So again, look at the teams they played this year. Swapping out RH for UWP and UWS for UWO would be nonsensical given the teams they'll play in conference and in a post-season run.

Bearing that in mind, there are a number of teams that aren't picking up the phone when SJU calls (and they aren't the only ones that have this problem). This is just a fact. It's not "scheduling soft" to recognize a Top 15 opponent probably doesn't serve you given the quality of opponents you'll face in-conference. And then having a challenge when teams in the average to good category of D3 don't want to schedule you in return.

And yeah, the top teams in the MIAC don't want MAC back in. We are super annoyed at having to swap out UST for MAC. When/if MAC joins the conference, you'll probably see a shift in how teams schedule in the non-con.

It's not a "chronic bitch session." We were all super annoyed when MAC was allowed to weenie way out and dropped MIAC fb, but got to stay for their other sports. The schools with the will to compete are now doubly annoyed that weaker elements in the conference have conspired to boot UST, which will now mean we get stuck with MAC in their place. No top teams in the MIAC are ducking good competition. It's why we were all gnashing our teeth at the tossing of UST. 

Bottom line, in a MIAC that includes UST, you need to be mindful of the fact that the Top half of the MIAC will be a gauntlet and there are precious few Pool C bids, and a second loss is usually the kiss of death. In a Post-UST MIAC universe, there's more reason to schedule tougher. But we haven't been in that world to this point. So again, to your oblivious point in bold above, we'd rather have UST in the conference, and if they are, it will affect who you schedule in non-con. But now that we have to take the creampuff back, I'm sure playoff aspiring teams will adjust their non-con strategy.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: sjujohnnie on December 21, 2019, 11:00:45 PM
Morningside just defeated Marian, 40-38 for their 2nd straight NAIA national championship title. Will be interesting to see if Ryan stays or leaves for Wheaton.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: TheChucker on December 23, 2019, 11:51:52 AM
Quote from: Baldini on December 08, 2019, 10:15:06 AM
Quote from: hazzben on December 07, 2019, 11:36:35 PM
Quote from: Baldini on December 04, 2019, 11:31:35 PM
If a review of the past 10 seasons tells us anything it is that St. John's is careful about keeping the non-conference schedule on the easier side. Which is certainly their right to do so if they prefer it that way.

That's not a fair assessment. First, SJU has a hard time getting teams to pick up the phone for non-con games. Second, playing in a tough league also means you probably don't want to go out and schedule Top 15 teams for non-con from a sheer attrition standpoint. Case in point, they will be playing their 14th game of the season next week, which will have involved a ton a good to really good d3 football teams (Wheaton, Chapman, Aurora, two WIAC teams, UST, Concordia, St. Olaf, GAC, and Bethel).

First off I am not claiming I would do anything different than St. John's already does, but I don't think it is an unfair assessment at all. Secondly, I am not buying this narrative that they can't get teams to pick up the phone for non-conference games either. The teams in the UMAC and some other lesser talented teams in other conferences don't return their calls because they don't want a 98-0 St. Scholastica seal clubbing that St. John's wants to lay on someone. But UW-LC, UW-O, UW-WW and UW-P all need games every year and end up traveling great distances to play very good teams, you really believe they won't pick up the phone if St. John's calls? There is a bunch of good NAIA schools that are in dire need of games every year and are fairly good fits for St. John's. Dickinson St. played UW-LC this season (and beat them), Valley City would be a great game for them, UW-WW played St. Xavier in a very good game and they also played Morningside a few years back which was noted earlier. Those are just a few examples of pages I could type here.

Again, I don't blame them for doing things the way they do. I think their is some good reasons to schedule strong and good reasons not to, but don't be surprised if someone calls BS on claims that they can't get anyone to schedule them. Or like the person claiming on the MIAC board that they didn't want Macalester back because they didn't want another 'creampuff' on the schedule.

So which is it, they need to schedule softer because of the 'attrition standpoint' or the schedule has too many 'creampuffs'? Because when people are claiming both it is just a chronic bitching session.

With the MIAC not getting a Pool C bid this year with two very good nationally relevant teams left out (St. Thomas and Bethel), and a decent Concordia team going into conference play with two D3 losses on their schedule from playing a really tough non-con (Whitewater and La Crosse), I don't think the trend will be towards playing a tougher non-conference slate. Quite the opposite actually. I'm not sure how the NCAA selection committee views wins and losses vs. NAIA teams, so maybe that's an option for non-conference play if those losses don't hold much weight.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 23, 2019, 12:50:47 PM
Quote from: TheChucker on December 23, 2019, 11:51:52 AM
... I'm not sure how the NCAA selection committee views wins and losses vs. NAIA teams, so maybe that's an option for non-conference play if those losses don't hold much weight.
My first thought is that you could end up with a record of 8-1 versus D3 teams instead of 9-1, having played an NAIA team in your 10th game.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: hazzben on December 23, 2019, 03:29:17 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 23, 2019, 12:50:47 PM
Quote from: TheChucker on December 23, 2019, 11:51:52 AM
... I'm not sure how the NCAA selection committee views wins and losses vs. NAIA teams, so maybe that's an option for non-conference play if those losses don't hold much weight.
My first thought is that you could end up with a record of 8-1 versus D3 teams instead of 9-1, having played an NAIA team in your 10th game.

Didn't seem to effect UWW this year.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: sjujohnnie on September 12, 2020, 09:36:43 PM
Morningside leads Northwestern 24-21 early in the 3rd quarter. Likely Morningside's only competitive game this year.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: sjujohnnie on September 12, 2020, 10:12:11 PM
Knotted up at 31 to start the 4th. Would love to see Morningside & Northwestern in the MIAC & a couple bottom dwellers kicked to the curb! Would love to see how St John's would match up!
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: BLynn on September 21, 2020, 11:03:00 PM
Quote from: sjujohnnie on September 12, 2020, 09:36:43 PM
Morningside leads Northwestern 24-21 early in the 3rd quarter. Likely Morningside's only competitive game this year.

From your laptop to God's ear.  M'side won 45-31, but it was tied 31-all with 8 minutes left.  Seen my share of M'side-NWC games and this might be the best Northwestern team I've seen, (going back to 1977).  Their Qb got leg cramps thru out the game and missed a couple key plays (back-up fumbled at M'side 19). 

Loved the UWW-M'side series and would gladly see the Johnnies a time or two.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: hazzben on September 22, 2020, 05:04:56 PM
Quote from: BLynn on September 21, 2020, 11:03:00 PM
Quote from: sjujohnnie on September 12, 2020, 09:36:43 PM
Morningside leads Northwestern 24-21 early in the 3rd quarter. Likely Morningside's only competitive game this year.

From your laptop to God's ear.  M'side won 45-31, but it was tied 31-all with 8 minutes left.  Seen my share of M'side-NWC games and this might be the best Northwestern team I've seen, (going back to 1977).  Their Qb got leg cramps thru out the game and missed a couple key plays (back-up fumbled at M'side 19). 

Loved the UWW-M'side series and would gladly see the Johnnies a time or two.

Hard to imagine it's better than the 81 and 83 NWC teams. 83 in particular.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: BLynn on October 04, 2020, 10:53:12 PM
Quote from: hazzben on September 22, 2020, 05:04:56 PM
Quote from: BLynn on September 21, 2020, 11:03:00 PM
Quote from: sjujohnnie on September 12, 2020, 09:36:43 PM
Morningside leads Northwestern 24-21 early in the 3rd quarter. Likely Morningside's only competitive game this year.

From your laptop to God's ear.  M'side won 45-31, but it was tied 31-all with 8 minutes left.  Seen my share of M'side-NWC games and this might be the best Northwestern team I've seen, (going back to 1977).  Their Qb got leg cramps thru out the game and missed a couple key plays (back-up fumbled at M'side 19). 

Loved the UWW-M'side series and would gladly see the Johnnies a time or two.

Hard to imagine it's better than the 81 and 83 NWC teams. 83 in particular.

M'side and NWC didn't play those 2 seasons and yes, the 1983 NAIA D2 Champs had to be good, but the athleticism I've seen this year (against Morningside and Dordt this Saturday) impresses me more than the teams I saw back in the 70's and early this century.  The game has changed to involve speed so much more than before and Red Raiders have plenty.  btw freshman LB Parker Fryar is going to be, if not already, a great one at NWC
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: sjujohnnie on May 01, 2021, 04:57:37 PM
Watching the NAIA semifinal game between Morningside & Northwestern. 90 degrees in Sioux City. 2:03 remaining. Morningside leads 41-36. If they hold on they'll have won 40 straight games & will play Monday, May 10th for a shot at a 3-peat of national championships. Really wonder how St John's would fare against Morningside/Northwestern? Certainly would rather face them with Erdmann under center.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: sjujohnnie on May 01, 2021, 05:06:53 PM
The WR for Northwestern has a school record with over 300 yards receiving. Both Morningside & Northwestern have high-powered offenses & put up 500+ yards regularly. Northwestern's QB put up a prayer & it was hauled in in the endzone to give Northwestern a 42-41 lead with 16 seconds left. 2 point conversion coming.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: sjujohnnie on May 01, 2021, 05:16:05 PM
Northwestern's two-point conversion was good. 2 seconds remain & Morningside will have to throw up a Hail Mary. Northwestern hasn't beaten Morningside since 2013 or been to a national championship game since 1984 according to the announcers. And Morningside's Hail Mary was incomplete. That's Morningside's first loss since 2017.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: hazzben on May 04, 2021, 10:05:29 AM
I was at the game, it was a classic...and stupid hot!

The NWC receiver had 300 yds because M-Side chose to double cover their best/AA WR the entire game. Kooima feasted on the openings it provided in other single coverage matchups. To the tune of 490 passing yards, 3 TD's, plus 2 rushing TD's. Morningside was incredible up front, especially on the OLine.

Sad update, Kooima tore his Achilles on the final TD with 16 seconds remaining. So NWC goes into the National Championship game without its AA QB. Really tough break for a team that's built around an explosive passing offense.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: sjujohnnie on May 04, 2021, 11:17:31 PM
I thought about going, but just streamed it at home. Had the place to myself with all the amenities & none of the heat! My wife went to Morningside & we live down in Sergeant Bluff. That stinks for Kooima! I hope they can still bring home the title for the GPAC & northwest Iowa! Out of curiosity, how do you think Morningside & Northwestern over the last few years would match up to St John's with Erdmann, Bartch, & company? I'm guessing Bethel will be St John's toughest competition going forward with St Thomas no longer in the MIAC.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: hazzben on May 05, 2021, 10:59:31 AM
They'd be fascinating games to watch. Morningside was better a few years back in 2018. I don't know that this years team is their best, which is kinda nuts because this team is crazy good, especially up front. IMO, they were 1 CB short of winning a third National Title.

I think NWC has better WR talent than SJU did in 2019, just ask Morningside, who held the AA to 0 catches (by doubling him the entire game), and had another WR torch them for 300 yds  :o. And I'd take Erdmann over Kooima at QB. But I'd take the Solsma/Niles combo over any of them, hence why I think Morningside from 2018 is probably my pick for who would win.

The Morningside v. UWW series from a few years ago was very telling. They had two incredibly close battles, when both programs were top 1/2 in NAIA/D3. So that said, I think seeing Morningside vs SJU would have been great to see, but probably favors Morningside. Them vs. NCC would be the matchup I'd really have wanted to see. If you could have paired 2018 Solsma (5,391 yds passing, 72 TD's, 14,033 career passing yds) vs. 2019 Rutter (4,591 yds passing, 56 TD's, 14,265 career passing yds)... that'd be some insane QB play and two very complete Championship teams.

Bottom line, Erdmann, Kooima, Solsma, and Rutter are all ridiculous talents.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: sjujohnnie on October 09, 2021, 03:22:04 PM
NAIA #3 Morningside is up 55-7 on the road against Hastings with 0:59 remaining in the first half. Is Morningside that good or is their competition that bad? Does the coach just run up the score against opponents? In the first four games of the 2021 season Morningside has not scored less than 56 points. I really wish there wasn't an NAIA!
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: hazzben on October 12, 2021, 11:06:50 AM
Quote from: sjujohnnie on October 09, 2021, 03:22:04 PM
NAIA #3 Morningside is up 55-7 on the road against Hastings with 0:59 remaining in the first half. Is Morningside that good or is their competition that bad? Does the coach just run up the score against opponents? In the first four games of the 2021 season Morningside has not scored less than 56 points. I really wish there wasn't an NAIA!

I was at the Morningside vs NWC Semi-final game this Spring (weird thing to write about fb). Morningside is really, really good. They are very much a UWW/Mount/UMHB type program at the NAIA level. NWC is really the only competition they have each season before the second round of the playoffs.

There's a fair amount of talent along the I-29 corridor. With UNO not having football any longer, and all the D2 teams in S. Dakota being sub-elite, they get some very good recruits.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: 02 Warhawk on October 12, 2021, 11:21:40 AM
Yeah, Morningside is usually a top 5 program in the NAIA. Back in '15 and '16 UWW had home/home series against them, the Warhawks beat them both times. The big story line for the 2015 game was that both teams were ranked #1 in their respected divisions (D3 and NAIA).

The Hawks earned the bragging rights for D3 that year.  ;)
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: sjujohnnie on October 13, 2021, 01:15:50 PM
I was at the game in Sioux City that year. Wasn't that Whitewater's first season without Leipold? Morningside's head coach, Steve Ryan, is a Wheaton alum. Seems as if there's not much discrepancy between the top of Division III & the NAIA. Will always wonder, as a St John's alum & massive fan, how they would look against each other & the rest of the top Division III teams like Whitewater, Mount Union, UMHB, & North Central as of late & how their conference opponents would fair. Guess it'll always be a what-if. Are they recruiting the same caliber talent? Same caliber student academically?
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 13, 2021, 10:15:22 PM
Quote from: sjujohnnie on October 13, 2021, 01:15:50 PM
I was at the game in Sioux City that year. Wasn't that Whitewater's first season without Leipold? Morningside's head coach, Steve Ryan, is a Wheaton alum. Seems as if there's not much discrepancy between the top of Division III & the NAIA. Will always wonder, as a St John's alum & massive fan, how they would look against each other & the rest of the top Division III teams like Whitewater, Mount Union, UMHB, & North Central as of late & how their conference opponents would fair. Guess it'll always be a what-if. Are they recruiting the same caliber talent? Same caliber student academically?

NAIA can offer athletic scholarships - for football, up to 24 FTE which are split among recipients (D2, by comparison, allows 36 FTE).  The NAIA rules for athletic scholarships say you must meet two of three criteria:  NAIA has three requirements of which a prospective student-athlete must meet at least two of.  (1) at least an 18 on the ACT or an 860 on the SAT (2) a 2.0 GPA on a 4.0 GPA scale (3) graduate in the top half of your high school class.  Homeschool student require a 20/950 (source (https://www.recruitref.com/blog/can-naia-schools-offer-full-ride-scholarships)).  Morningside also offers a $5K yearly "talent scholarship" to participants in a wide variety of athletics of which athletics is one, and an additional $1K/year discount if you make an official visit.  As those are both available to the general student body they probably don't count against the athletic scholarship totals.

My guess is that athletic scholarship recipients at NAIA schools don't have to meet the same standards as other prospective students, just like many scholarship athletes elsewhere, but set me straight if anyone knows that not to be the case.  Morningside's general admissions profile is similar to at least some of the schools you mention.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: 02 Warhawk on October 13, 2021, 10:51:47 PM
I would think the talent pool would be similar to D3. Most of the NAIA school are located around the middle of the country.

Yeah those two years were the first two without Leipold. UWW didn't make it to the Stagg Bowl either years, so technically Whitewater wasn't even the best D3 had to offer then.

I heard awhile back that after the top 10-15 ranked teams in the NAIA, there's a big drop off in talent. I think their top teams will matchup great to our top teams. But after that I think D3 has the edge.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: hazzben on October 14, 2021, 09:29:24 AM
Quote from: 02 Warhawk on October 13, 2021, 10:51:47 PM
I would think the talent pool would be similar to D3. Most of the NAIA school are located around the middle of the country.

Yeah those two years were the first two without Leipold. UWW didn't make it to the Stagg Bowl either years, so technically Whitewater wasn't even the best D3 had to offer then.

I heard awhile back that after the top 10-15 ranked teams in the NAIA, there's a big drop off in talent. I think their top teams will matchup great to our top teams. But after that I think D3 has the edge.

To be fair, Morningside didn't win the title either of those years either.

I think NAIA goes deeper than just top 10-15. Top 25 are probably similar. The creativity of aid packages at most top D3 schools would be competitive with an NAIA package. In the GPAC, multiple schools have considered a move to D3, and each came away with the conclusion it would be more expensive to run their athletics Dept as a D3 school.

One major difference is that D3 is over 3 times the size of NAIA, so the bottom of D3 is worse than the bottom of the NAIA, IMO.

One place of clear D3 superiority, our national website. Pat and crew are light years ahead of VSN.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: 02 Warhawk on October 14, 2021, 09:36:36 AM
Depends who you ask. When Morningside played UWW those two years I created an account on the NAIA boards to see their thoughts on the games. I cited that each year D3 typically has a winning record against  NAIA  schools. They came back with "beyond the top teams the rest of the NAIA is pretty bad. That's why D3 wins most of the time."  Not saying I agree with that, but that's the view of fans who follow that division. I don't follow the NAIA as close as they do, so I can't say for sure if they're wrong or right.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Baldini on October 14, 2021, 02:17:05 PM
Quote from: 02 Warhawk on October 14, 2021, 09:36:36 AM
Depends who you ask. When Morningside played UWW those two years I created an account on the NAIA boards to see their thoughts on the games. I cited that each year D3 typically has a winning record against  NAIA  schools. They came back with "beyond the top teams the rest of the NAIA is pretty bad. That's why D3 wins most of the time."  Not saying I agree with that, but that's the view of fans who follow that division. I don't follow the NAIA as close as they do, so I can't say for sure if they're wrong or right.

I don't really agree with that comment, D3 and NAIA are very similar in that they have top, middle and bottom tiers. At all 3 levels when playing a similar tier the games will be evenly matched. We do not have much to go off of in 20/21 COVID year, but this is the 2019 season.

Vs. NAIA  (11-6)

St. Thomas 69  Trinity International 3
St. Scholastica 42  Mayville St. 35  OT
Hendrix 28  Lyon 20
Lawrence Tech 34  Wisconsin Lutheran 14
St. Scholastica 41  Presentation 13
Anderson 27  Cincinnati Christian 23
Austin 27  Southwestern Assemblies 26
Buena Vista 27  Concordia (Neb.) 24
Valley City State 67  Minnesota-Morris 7
UW-Whitewater 28  St. Xavier 20
UW-Platteville 41  Thomas More 10
Dickinson St. 23  UW-La Crosse 17
Waldorf 27  UW-River Falls 24
Dakota St. 38  UW-Stevens Point 21
Brevard 40  Allen 9
Emory and Henry 49  Bluefield 21
Olivet Nazarene 69  Greenville 8

When a top D3 plays a bottom feeder NAIA we have St. Thomas against Trinity International, when a top NAIA plays a lower end D3 you get Valley City State over Minnesota-Morris. The mid level games should be the telling games to support how similar the two products are. Dickinson State, Waldorf and Dakota State all played UW system teams and came away with wins in evenly matched games.   
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: hazzben on October 14, 2021, 03:07:22 PM
Quote from: 02 Warhawk on October 14, 2021, 09:36:36 AM
Depends who you ask. When Morningside played UWW those two years I created an account on the NAIA boards to see their thoughts on the games. I cited that each year D3 typically has a winning record against  NAIA  schools. They came back with "beyond the top teams the rest of the NAIA is pretty bad. That's why D3 wins most of the time."  Not saying I agree with that, but that's the view of fans who follow that division. I don't follow the NAIA as close as they do, so I can't say for sure if they're wrong or right.

I think they'd argue Top 25 is their sense of Top Teams, not just Top 10-15. I interact on their board and with people who are pretty heavy NAIA followers (and even coaches), and I think that would be more along the lines of their take. I think they'd also argue, like we would, that there are tiers. The team ranked #20 in D3 isn't likely a great game against a Top 3-5 team, and same for NAIA.

The trick is we rarely get clean data points ... like #1 ranked UWW vs Morningside, for a comparison. Or a Top 15-25 D3 versus a Top 15-25 NAIA.

Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: sjujohnnie on October 16, 2021, 04:52:06 PM
Morningside is up 77-7 over cross-town rival Briar Cliff with 11:28 remaining in the 4th quarter. St John's got their 3rd consecutive shutout of the season today with a 56-0 win over St Olaf. They had backups in early & kept the ball on the ground for most of the second half so they wouldn't run up the score further than it already was. Can the same be said about Morningside? I would love to know what their opponents think about the program & hear some insights into it!
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: 02 Warhawk on October 16, 2021, 10:20:55 PM
Based on their message boards, they aren't well liked.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: sjujohnnie on October 23, 2021, 04:45:39 PM
Morningside had a 12-7 halftime lead over Dordt. Dordt was up 28-19 at one point in the 2nd half & had a 28-26 lead with 1:18 remaining in the 4th quarter when they chose to go for it. Didn't convert & with 0:43 left Morningside punched it in the endzone & converted the 2-point attempt. Morningside held on to win 34-28.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: hazzben on October 23, 2021, 05:40:03 PM
Dordt's qb might be the best athlete in the GPAC
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: sjujohnnie on October 31, 2021, 10:03:17 PM
#3 Morningside (Sioux City, IA) travels to #2 Northwestern (Orange City, IA) on Saturday.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: hazzben on November 01, 2021, 09:08:10 AM
Quote from: sjujohnnie on October 31, 2021, 10:03:17 PM
#3 Morningside (Sioux City, IA) travels to #2 Northwestern (Orange City, IA) on Saturday.

Should be a great matchup. Kooima played his first game since tearing his achilles against Morningside in the Spring, and threw 6 TD's as NWC blew out Dordt.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: sjujohnnie on November 06, 2021, 04:52:11 PM
#3 Morningside has a 48-39 lead over #2 Northwestern on the road with 8:01 remaining in the contest.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: sjujohnnie on December 15, 2021, 10:00:29 PM
Appears that ground zero for the best programs in NAIA are in Iowa. Grand View, Morningside, & Northwestern all made the semis. Morningside & Northwestern being in the same conference. NAIA national championship game Saturday at 5:00 from Durham, NC between Morningside & Grand View. I'll forever be curious how Morningside & Northwestern would look against St John's, Bethel & the top programs above in Division III.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Coolrey on December 16, 2021, 03:58:08 PM
Back in 2016, D-III #2 Whitewater beat NAIA #2 Morningside 35-21.  Whitewater got beat, I think, in the 3rd round of the D-III playoffs that year while M'Side lost in the 2nd.  I think if you were to matchup this year's UMHB team w/ this year's M'Side team, I don't think the NAIA team holds up.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: SW1 on January 16, 2022, 12:08:28 PM
No way Morningside stays on the field with UMHB.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: sjujohnnie on September 03, 2022, 09:35:36 AM
With #5 St John's hosting #4 Whitewater at 1:00 today I'm nervous, but hopeful that St John's can open the season with a HUGE win! This will only be the second time in history that Whitewater has traveled to Collegeville. In 2002 St John's beat them 42-18. Tonight my wife, who is a Morningside alum, & I are going to the Morningside/Northwestern game in Sioux City. Morningside has now won 3 straight NAIA titles. Tonight's matchup is #1 vs #3 so should be a great game! Would be really nice if St John's could defeat Whitewater which Morningside was unable to do in their home & away series a handful of years ago so that I can mention that at the game! So glad that the return of college football is finally here!
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: sjujohnnie on September 03, 2022, 05:16:43 PM
#5 St John's was able to do what Morningside was unable to! They took down #4 Wisconsin-Whitewater, 24-10. Will be interesting to see what #1 Morningside looks like tonight vs #3 Northwestern. Still wish the NAIA could fold so I could see how teams like Morningside & Northwestern would fare against UMHB, Mount Union, Whitewater, St John's, etc.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: sjujohnnie on September 03, 2022, 11:35:17 PM
Morningside prevailed, 30-29.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: hazzben on September 09, 2022, 09:30:08 AM
Quote from: sjujohnnie on September 03, 2022, 11:35:17 PM
Morningside prevailed, 30-29.

It was a great game. McCarty should have taken the points on the 2 at the end of the half. Easier to say that now seeing how close it ended up. Here's to hoping they both win out and meet up deep in the playoffs again!
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: HOPEful on September 09, 2022, 10:37:39 AM
I stumbled upon this thread and am truthfully learning this morning for the first time that the NAIA has football. My ignorance is due to the fact that my NAIA knowledge revolves around basketball and the WHAC, which does not have football.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Inkblot on September 09, 2022, 11:29:24 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on September 09, 2022, 10:37:39 AM
I stumbled upon this thread and am truthfully learning this morning for the first time that the NAIA has football. My ignorance is due to the fact that my NAIA knowledge revolves around basketball and the WHAC, which does not have football.

Four WHAC members (Concordia, Lawrence Tech, Madonna, Siena Heights) play football in the Mid-States Football Association.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: HOPEful on September 12, 2022, 11:20:00 AM
Quote from: Inkblot on September 09, 2022, 11:29:24 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on September 09, 2022, 10:37:39 AM
I stumbled upon this thread and am truthfully learning this morning for the first time that the NAIA has football. My ignorance is due to the fact that my NAIA knowledge revolves around basketball and the WHAC, which does not have football.

Four WHAC members (Concordia, Lawrence Tech, Madonna, Siena Heights) play football in the Mid-States Football Association.

Very cool. All of those WHAC schools are on the east side of Michigan. I'm most familiar with Cornerstone and Aquinas due to proximity and their relationships with Hope and Calvin. Thanks for enlightening my ignorance! :)

Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: smedindy on September 12, 2022, 06:40:31 PM
There's a NAIA school out here that has 8 teams. Five in Montana, two in Oregon and one in Idaho. Basically it's the football playing schools of the Cascade and Frontier conferences.

I think there are 91 NAIA schools playing football.

Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: BSCpanthers on September 18, 2022, 02:57:49 PM
This weekend, Birmingham Southern(1-1) will host NAIA Point University(0-4).  BSC desperately needs to get our offense working this weekend before starting conference play.  Last season we traveled to Little Rock to play first year NAIA Arkansas Baptist, we had a chance in that game for many players to get playing time, hopefully this Saturday we will have the same experience.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: MRMIKESMITH on September 18, 2022, 03:04:55 PM
Salisbury rolls Ave Maria beating them 42-14, shutting them out 2nd half.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: HOPEful on September 22, 2022, 01:14:32 PM
Quote from: FANOFD3 on September 18, 2022, 03:04:55 PM
Salisbury rolls Ave Maria beating them 42-14, shutting them out 2nd half.

Not only shutting them out, but scoring 28 themselves. The game was tied 14-14 at half.

After that second half, Ave Maria temporarily became Kyrie Eleison.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: BSCpanthers on September 25, 2022, 11:50:19 AM
Birmingham Southern beats Point 34-14, honestly, should have been 49-7.  BSC just isn't playing with that killer instinct like they were last season.  Which playing with a sophomore QB, it's going to take a bit to get that going.  But a win is a win, and win over a scholarship program just feels big, even if they are now 0-5. 
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: sjujohnnie on November 13, 2022, 10:23:06 PM
Morningside has apparently averaged 57.4 points per game & 570.5 yards of total offense (385 passing) this season. Other than the 1 point win over #3 Northwestern (out of Orange City, IA) they haven't been challenged. Is Morningside just that good or is their competition that pathetic? The NAIA tournament starts Saturday. Morningside faces the #16 seed & then the tournament is reseeded so, assuming they win, they'll face the lowest remaining seed each week they stay alive. Would still be curious how teams like Northwestern & Morningside would stack up against the top of Division III. Would the games be toss ups? I live near Sioux City & attended the Whitewater/Morningside game 6 or so years ago. I went to St John's & my wife went to Morningside. Was fun to see St John's defeat Whitewater to start the season when Morningside was not able to do it. Granted different seasons/players. Thoughts?
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: bleedpurple on November 13, 2022, 10:48:55 PM
Quote from: sjujohnnie on November 13, 2022, 10:23:06 PM
Morningside has apparently averaged 57.4 points per game & 570.5 yards of total offense (385 passing) this season. Other than the 1 point win over #3 Northwestern (out of Orange City, IA) they haven't been challenged. Is Morningside just that good or is their competition that pathetic? The NAIA tournament starts Saturday. Morningside faces the #16 seed & then the tournament is reseeded so, assuming they win, they'll face the lowest remaining seed each week they stay alive. Would still be curious how teams like Northwestern & Morningside would stack up against the top of Division III. Would the games be toss ups? I live near Sioux City & attended the Whitewater/Morningside game 6 or so years ago. I went to St John's & my wife went to Morningside. Was fun to see St John's defeat Whitewater to start the season when Morningside was not able to do it. Granted different seasons/players. Thoughts?

Yes, I think we want another shot at you. lol
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: sjujohnnie on November 14, 2022, 12:26:07 AM
I'd be fine with that! It would mean we'd have advanced to the quarterfinals & you'd have to travel back to Collegeville!
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: sjujohnnie on November 15, 2022, 11:34:20 PM
Morningside has now won 13 straight conference (GPAC - Great Plains Athletic Association) titles. St John's has now won 4 straight MIAC titles. I believe that's the 3rd time in program history that St John's has won 4 in a row. If St John's can win again next season it would be the first time they'd ever won 5 in a row. Like the Division III tournament the NAIA tournament starts Saturday, however only 16 teams are selected (12 conference champs & 4 at large bids). It's also reseeded after each round. Morningside being the #1 seed faces #16 &, as long as they win, will be rewarded with the lowest seed that remains - a much easier path than the Division III tournament!
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: hazzben on November 16, 2022, 09:21:16 AM
Quote from: sjujohnnie on November 15, 2022, 11:34:20 PM
Morningside has now won 13 straight conference (GPAC - Great Plains Athletic Association) titles. St John's has now won 4 straight MIAC titles. I believe that's the 3rd time in program history that St John's has won 4 in a row. If St John's can win again next season it would be the first time they'd ever won 5 in a row. Like the Division III tournament the NAIA tournament starts Saturday, however only 16 teams are selected (12 conference champs & 4 at large bids). It's also reseeded after each round. Morningside being the #1 seed faces #16 &, as long as they win, will be rewarded with the lowest seed that remains - a much easier path than the Division III tournament!

Yeah, it's still kinda wild to me that they re-seed after every round. People complain about Mount never going on the road, but imagine if it was guaranteed that NCC got the worst team still left in the bracket every round!? It creates an environment that actually protects dynasties. Once you're established as the best 2 or 3 in the country, you'll be getting prime playoff matchups.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: hazzben on November 16, 2022, 09:26:20 AM
If Bethel can't beat Wheaton on the road in Rd 1 there's a good chance I'll be watching NWC in the second round since I'll be down in Orange City for thanksgiving. Assuming they beat Dickinson and that it's not terribly cold.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: sjujohnnie on November 16, 2022, 02:23:16 PM
We're celebrating my wife's parents' 50th wedding anniversary in Oyens that Saturday night with a Mass for them. Will go for supper after. Will be hard for me to keep an eye on the Northwestern matchup with all of the Division III action (besides, assuming St John's makes it to round two), but hope Northwestern (& Bethel) win! NAIA championships should come with an asterisk by default given the reseeding of their bracket. Hope you have a great Thanksgiving & that your team(s) win!
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: hazzben on November 16, 2022, 02:33:09 PM
Quote from: sjujohnnie on November 16, 2022, 02:23:16 PM
We're celebrating my wife's parents' 50th wedding anniversary in Oyens that Saturday night with a Mass for them. Will go for supper after. Will be hard for me to keep an eye on the Northwestern matchup with all of the Division III action (besides, assuming St John's makes it to round two), but hope Northwestern (& Bethel) win! NAIA championships should come with an asterisk by default given the reseeding of their bracket. Hope you have a great Thanksgiving & that your team(s) win!

Hopefully supper involves Archie's Waeside!
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: sjujohnnie on November 16, 2022, 02:54:22 PM
You hit the nail on the head! That's the plan!
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: hazzben on November 22, 2022, 09:38:47 AM
Quote from: sjujohnnie on November 16, 2022, 02:54:22 PM
You hit the nail on the head! That's the plan!

Hope Archie's was on point!

Fortune has smiled on my small college football loving soul. Bethel wins in the first round and travels to PST Linfield. Which means I can go to the NWC v. Marion game at 12 in Orange City, while I watch SJU v. Wartburg on my phone. And have time to get back home to watch Linfield v. Bethel. Bliss!!
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: sjujohnnie on November 22, 2022, 12:33:44 PM
Saturday will be a blast for you! Probably my fault for the miscommunication, but we're celebrating my wife's parent's 50th this coming Saturday night. I've convinced her to allow me to watch the St John's game at noon at home in Sergeant Bluff & then will head up to Oyens. Will do my best to keep an eye on the Bethel game! Best of luck! I hope both Bethel & my Johnnies can continue to advance! Sounds like Wartburg is going to be a tall task! With Aurora on the rise, St John's, will not get any breaks if they can win on Saturday. The same could be said for Bethel! Good for the MIAC!
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: hazzben on December 17, 2022, 11:39:33 PM
Northwestern College wins the NAIA title. Iowa has produced a ton of really good small college football the last few years. NWC, Morningside, Central, Grandview, and Wartburg have all made the semifinals or won titles. It'd be fascinating to see how they shook out if they played across divisions.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: QC Life on March 23, 2023, 04:59:30 PM
Quote from: hazzben on December 17, 2022, 11:39:33 PM
Northwestern College wins the NAIA title. Iowa has produced a ton of really good small college football the last few years. NWC, Morningside, Central, Grandview, and Wartburg have all made the semifinals or won titles. It'd be fascinating to see how they shook out if they played across divisions.
Iowa's small college football has been great the last few years.
(Division I, not so much...)
There are some really intriguing potential matchups.... NW vs Central, Grand View vs Wartburg....
Wish there was room in the schedules for that.
I know this is the football board, but I'd also love to see Grand View and Wartburg meet in wrestling.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: Ron Boerger on March 24, 2023, 08:34:43 AM
There's room in the schedules, but the NCAA disincentivizes cross-division play as those results are basically ignored when playoff selection time comes.  All other things being equal, having one less win (vs. D3) on the schedule could actually hurt.
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: doolittledog on March 24, 2023, 09:49:44 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on March 24, 2023, 08:34:43 AM
There's room in the schedules, but the NCAA disincentivizes cross-division play as those results are basically ignored when playoff selection time comes.  All other things being equal, having one less win (vs. D3) on the schedule could actually hurt.

In the case of the ARC, almost always a one bid league.  So win the conference and you are in.  Finish 2nd and you stay home.  So maybe these schools could schedule against the NAIA and just take care of business in the conference.  But, there is the chance you could get 2 schools in, and there are plenty of D3 schools in IA, MN, WI, IL you can schedule so unlikely to happen.   
Title: Re: D3 vs. NAIA
Post by: sjujohnnie on November 04, 2023, 04:40:09 PM
Morningside lost to #1 Northwestern  last weekend 34-20 on the road. That ended their 78 game winning streak against conference opponents in the regular season which dated back to 2013. They just lost at home 28-24 against Dordt. No clue when they last lost two in a row!