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Division III football (Post Patterns) => Region 3 football (South Atlantic-ish) => Topic started by: Llamaguy on October 11, 2005, 02:42:00 AM

Title: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on October 11, 2005, 02:42:00 AM
Thought it would be nice to have an area to follow potential South Region teams in their quest for the 2005 NCAA Playoffs.

The list includes teams that potentially could end up in the South Region but realize some may potentially head East or to other regions.

This is will be updated weekly as QOWI will change as will the wins / losses of competing teams.

Enjoy and post along with thoughts and observations.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 11, 2005, 03:20:26 AM
Week #6 Comparison

* ranking will be based on current QOWI w/in each loss column
@ - indicates teams eligible for Pool B bids

"0" LOSS TEAMS  with (overall w/l) (regional w/l) QOWI

1.  THIEL @                  (5-0) (5-0)  11.60        D3 #19   AFCA #23
2.  TRINITY                   (5-0) (4-0)  11.50       D3 #12   AFCA # 9
3.  JHU                         (5-0) (4-0)  11.00                    AFCA #18
     WESLEY @               (6-0) (4-0)  11.00       D3 #24 
5.  HSU                        (5-0) (4-0)    9.50       D3 # 3    AFCA # 4
6.  FERREM                   (6-0) (5-0)    9.00

"1" LOSS TEAMS

1.   SALISBURY @            (4-1) (2-0)   14.50      D3 #17   
2.   MCDANIEL                 (4-1) (3-1)   10.50
3.   BRIDGEWATER           (3-1) (2-1)   10.00      D3 #18   AFCA #17
      ETBU                       (4-1) (4-0)   10.00
5.   HAMPDEN-SYDNEY      (4-1) (4-1)    9.60
6.   WASH & LEE              (4-1) (3-1)    9.50
7.   HUNTINGDON @          (4-1) (4-1)    9.00
      METHODIST               (4-1) (4-1)    9.00
9.   CENTRE                     (5-1) (3-1)    8.50
      WASH & JEFF @         (5-1) (3-1)    8.50     D3 #15   AFCA #19
11. DEPAUW                    (3-1) (2-1)    8.33
12. THOMAS MORE @        (4-1) (4-1)    8.00
13. UMHB                        (3-1) (3-1)    7.67     D3 #11   AFCA #13
14. MCMURRY                  (4-1) (3-1)    7.00

"2" LOSS TEAMS

1.   CNU                            (3-2) (3-1)    7.75




* Once a team has more than 2 losses they will drop from consideration as the season progresses. Note: Pool A (automatic qualifiers) will throw "a wrench" into the number of spots available but will not be considered individually for this comparison.

Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 11, 2005, 08:45:17 AM
Llama Guy, thanks for starting the thread.

Before we get too far into this thread, I respectfully ask your thoughts and those of others who have read the Handbook for primary selection criteria.

Would it not be more accurate to rank your teams by in-region criteria?

Having the polls is nice information, but let's put the disclaimer that any ranking that any service has given has absolutely no bearing on the selection committee or their decision!!!!!

ETBU has its loss to D-2 Southern Arkansas?  "Machts nicht!" (to use some of that McMurry education).  That leaves them undefeated in D3.

Also, by the 10th week, when the field has thinned some, let's add key wins according to the Handbook primary criteria.

Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 11, 2005, 09:06:00 AM
Great point Ralph! I agree with trying to mirror what the committee is trying to look at. This will be a starting point for those who want to compare South region teams at one location on the site. With so many teams still alive, I just figured a QOWI was an easy way to rank them in some fashion early on. Also appreciate the ETBU point. We all know our little parts of the South, but together can get a good view of the big picture in the South region.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 11, 2005, 09:12:01 AM
Llama guy, thanks!  I absolutely agree with ranking by QOWI. (Random question...what does al-Qowi mean in Arabic?  I would hate to have this web site hacked by al-Qaeda. :o)

Let's just remind the newbies that ACFA or Football Gazette or even our own d3football.com play no role in the selections!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 11, 2005, 09:32:19 AM
LOL on the al-Qowi!

Here is a link to the NCAA D3 handbook. Championship selection critria are on pages 11-13 I believe.
www.ncaa.org/library/handbooks/football/2005/2005_d3_football_handbook.pdf (http://www.ncaa.org/library/handbooks/football/2005/2005_d3_football_handbook.pdf)

And lastly, yes the polls have no weight in the NCAA's eyes, atleast in D3 that is. We settle it on the field! ;D
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 11, 2005, 09:38:09 AM
Ralph and llamaguy,  The list of teams just confirms in my mind that a lot of the teams with 1 loss can't afford another.  Next 2-3 weeks should be very interesting and help sort out potential Pool C bids.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 11, 2005, 11:08:38 AM
Llamaguy, great start.  One suggestion - you might want to put a "*" by the teams that are eligible for Pool B's.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: muchacho on October 11, 2005, 11:16:56 AM
Some games to look at with potential playoff implications this week are Washington and Lee(4-1) vs.  Hampden Sydney(4-1), and Methodist(4-1) vs. Ferrum(5-0).
Are there any other matchups this week that will have a huge effect on the chase for playoff spots?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 11, 2005, 11:23:00 AM
ETBU @ HSU certainly has playoff implications in the ASC.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 11, 2005, 12:10:06 PM
McMurry has key games for the next 5 weeks.  They will indicate how much improvement they have made this season.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Hug on October 11, 2005, 01:20:49 PM
Is it worth noting that Thiel is almost in Ohio and may be shipped? We'll cross that bridge later on down the line.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: pakownr97 on October 11, 2005, 01:59:38 PM
Hug,

My guess is that if Theil wins the PAC, they will stay in the South.  It seems to me that the committee likes to keep conference champs with an A bid within their region.  I know there are exceptions.

If Theil does not win the PAC, they may get left out, or they may get shipped out.

Just my 2 cents.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 11, 2005, 02:06:29 PM
Just an FYI FWIW--

The top teams in the ASC have yet to play each other, i.e. HSU/UMHB/McM/ETBU will all be squaring off against each other primarily over the next three weeks.

Ergo, the SOS for each of these ASC teams will likely go up--win or lose--in some cases.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Hug on October 11, 2005, 02:23:56 PM
Is there a witch Doctor in the house? I want to see someone project their South Region Pairing. It's OK to be wrong.  :)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: wally_wabash on October 11, 2005, 02:30:35 PM
RE: South region teams getting shipped to the North Region...

The North region is already loaded with plenty of playoff caliber teams.  OAC champ, CCIW champ, NCAC champ, HCAC champ,  MIAA champ.  and IBC champ.  That's already six.  Further, the OAC and CCIW are typically strong candidates for multiple bids (especially with the expanded playoffs this year) and you get an overcrowded North Region.  Twice in the last three years the North region has shipped a team east (Allegheny in '03, John Carroll in '02).  I would guess that the only South region team with a real shot to end up in the North bracket would be Depauw, but Depauw will have to win out to make that happen.  Thiel, if they got shipped out of the region, would almost certainly go to the east.    
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 11, 2005, 02:36:25 PM
I agree with Wally!  Thiel or Wesley might be shipped East.

In 2001, Hardin-Simmons was "sent north" and hosted Wittenburg in the first round, as UMHB went to Trinity.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: wally_wabash on October 11, 2005, 02:53:21 PM
Additionally, the way things are shaping up, Thiel might not be a good North region fit anyway.  The OAC looks like it might beat itself up out of a pool C bid again this year and Wabash could keep any Ohio-based NCAC schools out of the playoffs.  Mount Union very well could be the only Ohio school in the tournament this year.  Any other trip Thiel might have to make gets to be pretty long...without mapquesting things my guess is that Thiel's trips to Indiana or Illinois (or trips from schools in those states to Pennsylvania) are going to be about as long as Thiel's trips to other East region teams.  The brackets probably fall out a whole lot easier by moving Thiel east than trying to cram them into an already crowded North region, especially if there aren't many/any Ohio teams for Thiel to get paired up with. 
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: pakownr97 on October 11, 2005, 02:56:29 PM
I have a question for my fellow experts on this board.  Why does the President's conference winner not get an automatic A bid since their conference now has seven members.  Did the NCAA change that criteria, or am I mistaken?  I thought that conferences with seven or more football members got an A bid?

What gives?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 11, 2005, 02:58:37 PM
After a two-year waiting period they qualify.

http://www.d3football.com/news.php?item=778
http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/?p=55
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 11, 2005, 03:09:54 PM
I'll give it a go, just for kicks and giggles:

South Region preditions, Round one, winners paired for next round:

Christopher Newport (USAC Champ) at Hardin-Simmons
Mary Hardin-Baylor/East Texas Baptist at Trinity


Rationale:  ACFC will come down to last week of season.  If Salisbury wins, the committee will likely shy away from a Salisbury/CNU rematch in the first round.  Texas sub-bracket in-tact w/ likely a one-time-only flight.  CNU gets the long road game because of two-loss record (albeit to two potential playoff teams).

Thomas More (PAC Champ) at Bridgewater
Salisbury (ACFC Champ) at John's Hopkins (CC Champ)


Rationale:  As above w/ regard to Salisbury.  Really, IMO, these four teams are interchangeable as far as who hosts whom, due to relatively close geographic proximity.  

If DePauw, Thiel or W&J get a bid, then I think they get shipped to another region.  

Predicted Pool A's from South Region:  HSU, Trinity, Bridgewater, Christopher Newport, John's Hopkins

Predicted Pool B's from South Region:  Salisbury, Thomas More

Predicted Pool C's from South Region:  Mary Hardin-Baylor or East Texas Baptist
Title: Thanks, Pat
Post by: pakownr97 on October 11, 2005, 03:14:12 PM
Since you did such a fine job on that question, here's another.

How many Pool B v Pool C bids will there be this year?

I read the criteria and could probably figure it out, but I don't want to be "kidlike."

Besides, I am sure Pat already knows.

Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 11, 2005, 03:18:36 PM
It's in the FAQ.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 11, 2005, 03:20:11 PM
Yup.  But, the answer is four.  Though probably only three will outright deserve the bid. 

My guess is the fourth Pool B goes to the PAC this year.  Thiel will get it if they lose to TMC and win out.  TMC gets it if they lose to Thiel and win out.  W&J gets it if Thiel beats TMC and W&J wins out. 

Any of those three teams could be shipped to another region based on geographic proximity.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Toby Taff on October 11, 2005, 03:27:27 PM
Josh
My prediction if MHB and HSU both make the playoffs and you are correct on seeding.  The Loser of the October 22 game (HSU if both go) advances out of the bracket.

Did I just say that ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 11, 2005, 03:39:50 PM
I'm giving the nod to HSU, because I think HSU and UMHB will likely beat ETBU this year.  So, unless I'm mistaken, regardless of the HSU/UMHB outcome, HSU would win the ASC due to the winning percentage tiebreaker in effect due to the UMHB/LC cancellation--assuming they beat ETBU this weekend.  Barring tremendous upset, I think HSU needs one win over ETBU/UMHB to win the ASC.

Do remember that the committee doesn't schedule the games based on "seeds"--i.e. it's not a 1-8, 7-2 thing, but could be a 1-3, 2-4 thing.  Geography takes precedent over everything else.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 11, 2005, 03:47:13 PM
My early predictions for overall Pool C bids is as follows (in no particular order):

ASC #2 team:  East Texas Baptist or Mary Hardin-Baylor, whoever wins on 10/29.

OAC #2 team:  Otterbein or John Carroll, whoever wins on 10/29;  assuming Otterbein beats Ohio Northern this Saturday.

CCIW #2 team:  Augustana, North Central or Carthage.  Augustana controlls own fate in Pool A race, and can likely get only Pool A bid.  Carthage can likely only get Pool C due to loss vs. Augustana last Saturday.

MAC #2 team:  If it's Delaware Valley, otherwise not sure the MAC gets two in.

MIAC #2 team:  St. John's/Concordia-Moorhead/St. Olaf, whichever team finishes conference play with only one conference and overall loss.

IIAC #2 team:  If it's Central, otherwise not sure the IIAC gets two in.

Other possibilities for the seven Pool C slots include St. John Fisher, McDaniel, DePauw, Hobart and Union.  My guess is that, of this group, St. John Fisher (overtime loser to conference champ Ithaca)  and the Hobart/Union loser have the inside track. 

McDaniel will be done if they lose to JHU with two losses.  Don't know what to think about DePauw, but they'd be out with a loss to Wabash.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Toby Taff on October 11, 2005, 03:59:03 PM
Seeding was a bad term, I meant according to your match up.  I really hate to give the nod to HSU, but if both teams are in then MHB beat HSU on 10/22 and you know what they say about beating the same team twice in a season. Also, we know what these games are like normally.  I must say, I wouldn't mind another trip to Trinity, though.  Those games are fun to watch
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 11, 2005, 04:00:45 PM
Josh,  A 2nd ASC team with 2 losses?  Just wondering.  Hope it is true.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 11, 2005, 04:02:28 PM
If W&J runs the table, they'll get a bid, whether it's Pool B or Pool C.

(you veterans KNOW I love to stir THIS pot).
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 11, 2005, 04:03:59 PM
I see what you are getting at, Bill.  For clarification, what I'm assuming is:

HSU and UMHB both beat ETBU.
UMHB potentially beats HSU (that's the homer in me coming out   ;) )

UMHB obviously has to beat ETBU and HSU.  ETBU needs only to beat one of the two, as does HSU.

I don't think the ASC gets two in if the #2 team has two DIII losses.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 11, 2005, 04:10:29 PM
josh,  If ETBU only wins one of the 2 games, they also have 2 losses, although 1 is to a D2.  Will that have any bearing?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 11, 2005, 04:12:15 PM
I don't think so, because the committee only looks at DIII games.  Went back and clarified above.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 11, 2005, 04:25:37 PM
That favors ETBU in a big way.  UMHB has to beat HSU.  What if ETBU wins out, UMHB wins out, and HSU ends up with one loss.  WOW!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 11, 2005, 04:26:49 PM
That wouldn't happen, because HSU would have two losses if both UMHB and ETBU win out.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 11, 2005, 04:29:19 PM
Sorry Josh.  I was assuming HSU beats ETBU, UMHB beats HSU and these teams don't lose any other games.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 11, 2005, 04:33:54 PM
So ETBU would lose twice in-conference in your scenario, Bill?  Just asking for clarification.

Don't know how the tiebreaker would work, but assume it's applied across the board to conference games only.  Clarification on this point would be nice, but I gotta go and don't have time to look it up right now.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 11, 2005, 04:35:42 PM
I can't count Josh.  :) Deciding things on the field is so much easier to follow.  You are correct.  ETBU would have 2 losses.  I think there is a pretty good chance that the 2nd place ASC team will have 2 losses.  Hope I'm wrong on that one.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 11, 2005, 05:04:27 PM
Thanks for the heads up on the Handbook Ralph. That was a good read and very informative.

As for the predictions, I think I'll wait atleast 2 weeks as conference games will significantly thin the Pool B&C fields and the Pool A automatics will be much more clear.

Now a few points/questions about the NCAA's selection criteria:

Primary Criteria (not in priority order)

Secondary Criteria

Question 1: In the primary criteria, Does Conference postseason contest(s) refer to a conference championship game or previous record of a Conference member in past playoff years?

Question 2: It has been my thought that Overall win-loss percentage and strength of schedule were weighted pretty heavily as the top secondary criteria right under the primary criteria. Does anyone have any input on how the SOS would be quantified now that it has been replaced by the QOWI?

One last point, The big question in my mind is the disclaimer on the Primary criteria, (not in priority order), which can make it difficult to figure exactly what the committee will do since they have le-way on the weighting of each critria.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 11, 2005, 05:33:31 PM
Quote from: Llamaguy on October 11, 2005, 05:04:27 PM

Question 1: In the primary criteria, Does Conference postseason contest(s) refer to a conference championship game or previous record of a Conference member in past playoff years?
  • Current year.  Previous years are totally irrelevant.
[/b]
Question 2: It has been my thought that Overall win-loss percentage and strength of schedule were weighted pretty heavily as the top secondary criteria right under the primary criteria. Does anyone have any input on how the SOS would be quantified now that it has been replaced by the QOWI?
  • The QoWI is merely SOS by a different name.   That hasn't changed.  "SOS" no longer has any meaning for D3 selection.  IIRC SOS was a primary, not secondary criterion last year.
[/b]
One last point, The big question in my mind is the disclaimer on the Primary criteria, (not in priority order), which can make it difficult to figure exactly what the committee will do since they have le-way on the weighting of each critria.

  • They've got a weighting; the NCAA just isn't going to share it.  That way they can adjust it from season to season (that, and nobody can call them on it if they "get it wrong."  ::) )
[/b]
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 11, 2005, 05:54:23 PM
Bob Gregg, I don't know how many one loss teams there will be in Pool B/C!

This is getting exciting!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 11, 2005, 06:04:09 PM
Thanks Bfb! It should be fun to follow and as usual this topic becomes pretty hot about this time of year. ;)

I love Playoff Football! With a couple of "Big boys", (W&J, UMHB), with unexpected early losses and so many one loss teams,  looks like the playoffs have started now for alot of teams. Lose one more and you may be out, only time will tell.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 11, 2005, 06:09:13 PM
Llama guy, I understand that the reference to the conference post-season tournament is referring to the playoff game like the New England FC's.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 11, 2005, 06:27:44 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 11, 2005, 05:54:23 PM
Bob Gregg, I don't know how many one loss teams there will be in Pool B/C!

Ralph, I don't know either, but I know this:

IF W&J runs the table to finish 9-1, the Presidents ARE getting an invitation (B or C)!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 11, 2005, 07:38:34 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 11, 2005, 06:09:13 PM
Llama guy, I understand that the reference to the conference post-season tournament is referring to the playoff game like the New England FC's.

Thanks! That is the way I interpreted also but since there were so few "conf. championship games" in DIII, wanted to make sure it didn't mean something else.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 11, 2005, 08:56:02 PM
Quote from: bobgregg on October 11, 2005, 06:27:44 PM

Ralph, I don't know either, but I know this:

IF W&J runs the table to finish 9-1, the Presidents ARE getting an invitation (B or C)!

Bob,
I can give you alteast one senario where Wash & Jefferson winning out will still make it tight getting into the playoffs.


With that senario W&J would then drop into the Pool C group with a current qowi=8.5 and games with Thomas More may help a little and Waynesburg is questionable if they finish above .500 . Best case W&J's qowi goes up to ~9.00.
I know it would take the stars to align, but it is possible that they lose out on a spot as a result of a weaker schedule.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 11, 2005, 09:33:32 PM
W&J may have one factor in its favor if Hanover gets the HCAC AQ.

I believe that that qualifies as #1 in the Secondary Criteria.  I believe that that was a factor in UMHB's Pool C last year, their win over Willamette which got a Pool B bid.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 11, 2005, 09:34:47 PM
In your scenario, Llamaguy, I'm having trouble imaging seven teams chosen ahead of a W&J squad at 9-1 with one of those wins likely against the HCAC champ (convincingly) and the only loss in overtime to another tournament participant.

I still say run the table and the Presidents are in.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 11, 2005, 09:52:02 PM
Bob, I think you are right.

We ASC fans are dreading the ASC "WIAC-ing" itself.  I believe that there are several ASC teams that can administer the "2nd South Region loss" in conference play, and there may be a few 1-loss teams sitting home in November.

We are talking 7 Pool C bids.  IMHO, there are no Pool B's in the North Region (Rockford?), or non-ACFC East Region.  If there is only one NWC team in the playoffs, then the South Region will be where Pool B happens.

If we Pool C teams can get by with only Linfield, the ACFC Champ, and Thiel W&J, then we are in better shape.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 11, 2005, 10:03:31 PM
Quote from: bobgregg on October 11, 2005, 09:34:47 PM
In your scenario, Llamaguy, I'm having trouble imaging seven teams chosen ahead of a W&J squad at 9-1 with one of those wins likely against the HCAC champ (convincingly) and the only loss in overtime to another tournament participant.

I still say run the table and the Presidents are in.

I agree that odds are in your favor for sure. I just know there are 74 teams ahead of W&J's qowi right now. I also agree you have the secondary critria covered as do we at Bridgewater with Hanover. I just had to give you a hard time, you know me. ;D

We at BC have been playing playoff games ever since falling asleep against McDaniel in the second half of the first game. Talk about "backs against the wall", we have known since game 1 that we must win out to get in, secure the Pool A spot and run with the ball in the playoffs. A 7-2 Bridgewater ain't gettin' in the playoffs as a Pool C this year. ;)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 11, 2005, 10:29:31 PM
Llamaguy,

I know it was a hard time you were giving me.

And you know it was a hard time I was giving all you "Pool A/C" guys.

I said last year that one day a Pool C bid was going to go to a Pool B team.  I just had no idea I'd be here lobbying hard for it to be W&J!!!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Hug on October 12, 2005, 09:28:38 AM
Yes at the beginning of the year the BC faithful thought that 8-1 would get us into the playoffs. Now we know it will. 

The scenerio that Llamaguy lays out for W&J can be said of HSC. 9-1 with wins over the Centennial champ JHU and only loss coming to playoff bound BC. Hypothetical of course.  I wonder who would have the better QOWI? W&J or HSC?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 12, 2005, 10:10:49 AM
Bob, if W&J wins out, I think they get the fourth Pool B spot--mostly because Wesley's QOWI is about as high as it's going to get.   I think they're going to have to win out (just to maintain their QOWI) and get the Pool B from the ACFC. 

Salisbury is in worse shape for a second Pool B, because their loss is to a Montclair State team that is currently 2-3 and still has to play Rowan.  that's going to drag their QOWI down.

I mean, who else--besides W&J, assuming they win out--is going to be considered for the fourth Pool B?  I'd have a hard time believing the ACFC is going to get two in, as stated above.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: religion_major on October 12, 2005, 10:21:14 AM
Continuing on the W&J vs. HSC thought, just looking at the records and schedules for both I would give a slight edge to W&J.  The bottom teams in the PAC have managed to win a game or two so far.  The bottom of the ODAC will have one team with only one win and another that will most likely finish 0-10.  The only factor that could help HSC over W&J would be if JHU finishes 9-1 with a lone loss to HSC.  That would be a much better signature win than a win over Hanover.  That being said, judging from the recent history of the CC that is highly unlikely.  Just a little food for thought....
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 12, 2005, 02:33:47 PM
Josh, respectfully, the Salisbury game with Montclair is not in-region.  I don't think it will affect the primary critieria.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 12, 2005, 02:42:16 PM
Well, I guess it technically could, but you are correct, Ralph--it most likely will have zero impact. 

I had forgotten that QOWI is only calculated on in-region games.  Thanks for straightening me out. 

This begs a question, though:  Based on the way the QOWI criteria are set up, does this mean that the conference games between Salisbury/Wesley and Brockport State are not counted in the QOWI?  Seems silly to not factor a conference game into the equation.....doesn't it?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 12, 2005, 02:42:59 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on October 12, 2005, 10:10:49 AM
Bob, if W&J wins out, I think they get the fourth Pool B spot--mostly because Wesley's QOWI is about as high as it's going to get.   I think they're going to have to win out (just to maintain their QOWI) and get the Pool B from the ACFC. 
Actually a quick projection of their QOWI assuming they finish (9-1) losing to Salisbury would be 10.25 at the end of the year. WJ is projected to be ~9.90. W&J's QOWI is being pulled down because they have beaten 3 teams who are (0-5) and have a 1 win Bethany on the horizon. Schedules are made years in advance, but this year it isn't helping W&J.
Quote
Salisbury is in worse shape for a second Pool B, because their loss is to a Montclair State team that is currently 2-3 and still has to play Rowan.  that's going to drag their QOWI down.
The Montclair St. loss is an out of region loss so has no effect on their QOWI. Only in region contests factor into qowi. As for Salisbury's projected QOWI if they finish (9-1) = ~11.25.
Quote

Quote
I mean, who else--besides W&J, assuming they win out--is going to be considered for the fourth Pool B?  I'd have a hard time believing the ACFC is going to get two in, as stated above.


Which leaves a Pool B Field of:
Linfield
Thiel (even if they finish 9-1 have head to head over W&J
Salisbury
Wesley

That being said, W&j still probably has a good shot at a Pool C bid by seasons end if they win out. ;)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 12, 2005, 02:45:29 PM
Ralph you are quicker than I  ! ;)

And I do agree, Josh that if it gets to secondary critria then the Monclair St loss hurts their seeding and chance for home games in the playoffs.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 12, 2005, 02:46:32 PM
You guys posted whilst I was editing.  Any thoughts on my previous question?  Isn't Brockport St. in the East evaluative region?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 12, 2005, 02:54:55 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on October 12, 2005, 02:46:32 PM
You guys posted whilst I was editing.  Any thoughts on my previous question?  Isn't Brockport St. in the East evaluative region?

That is a good question Josh. I have the updated as of 9/23/05 d3 handbook in front of me right now. Salisbury & Wesley are listed as Pool B teams in the South. It doesn't list conference affiliation for non-automatic qualifying conferences. Brockport is not listed in the South or East so I'm not sure, but know the NCAA has the ~200mile proximity as a regional game. Not sure how that works across region lines though. I will say the update needs updating since it still has Chowan in the South and they are now D2. :o
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 12, 2005, 03:01:03 PM
Glad to know I'm not the only one curious.  I was just using the Team Pages (by region) Pat, et. al. have posted for us as reference. 

Maybe he can weigh in with an answer on this one.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 12, 2005, 03:39:09 PM
Josh, the ACFC is not a recognized conference.  I understand that head to head results on common opponents impact the decision and that is one of the benefits of the ACFC.

There will be several one loss in-region teams and so I think that the percentage will play a bigger factor.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 12, 2005, 03:47:24 PM
State University of NY Brockport is listed in the Handbook as an East Region  Pool B.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 12, 2005, 04:01:34 PM
FWIW, upon further inspection, both Salisbury and Wesley only play five in-region DIII games this year.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 13, 2005, 02:21:15 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 12, 2005, 03:47:24 PM
State University of NY Brockport is listed in the Handbook as an East Region  Pool B.

Good detective work Ralph! ;)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 13, 2005, 02:38:00 AM
5 Big Games affecting South Region Playoff Hopefuls this Weekend


How do the Indices Guru's Call'em this Week?

                                  Laz Index        Born Power    Don Hansen

Thiel                            -17                      -15         (28-14)
Hardin-Simmons          -20                       -20         (28-10)
Hampden-Sydney        -4.5                      -11         (35-21)
Ferrem                        -4                         -6           no pick
Howard Payne              -10                       -9          (31-14)

Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 13, 2005, 09:07:30 AM
Quote from: Llamaguy on October 13, 2005, 02:38:00 AM
5 Big Games affecting South Region Playoff Hopefuls this Weekend


  • McMurry vs. Howard Payne

Isn't this just a bit of a stretch?  2-3 Howard Payne and a 4-1 McMurry who hasn't beaten anyone yet (the four opponents they have defeated have a total of one win between them) ?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 13, 2005, 09:25:56 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger (BfB) on October 13, 2005, 09:07:30 AM
Quote from: Llamaguy on October 13, 2005, 02:38:00 AM
5 Big Games affecting South Region Playoff Hopefuls this Weekend


  • McMurry vs. Howard Payne

Isn't this just a bit of a stretch?  2-3 Howard Payne and a 4-1 McMurry who hasn't beaten anyone yet (the four opponents they have defeated have a total of one win between them) ?

Yup its quite a stretch, but they are still alive, granted its only Week 7 of the season. ;D
It said Big games affecting the South region playoff race, not big games in general this week, LOL.  Not alot different than W&L & Centre, its just that Centre plays Maryville this week, Wooooohoooo. All of the other teams not listed as the big 5 should win easily this week.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Hug on October 13, 2005, 09:36:13 AM
Gettysburg thinks they are playing a big game this Friday.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 13, 2005, 10:41:45 AM
Quote from: Hug on October 13, 2005, 09:36:13 AM
Gettysburg thinks they are playing a big game this Friday.

Yup, Hopkins is their Stagg Bowl! :D
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 13, 2005, 11:27:31 AM
Come on Bonzo!  It is a big game  for McMurry...Homecoming, the Yellow Jackets!

We volunteer to end the playoff hopes for HPU.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 13, 2005, 01:31:09 PM
Ron, It becomes a huge game if McMurry wins.  If they lose, it was fun while it lasted. :)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 13, 2005, 01:59:50 PM
Does anyone in this forum believe that Thiel can win out and go 10-0 and secure the playoff spot, or will they lose a game or two????

What would happen if Thiel does lose two gams in the next 5??

Would that crush their playoff aspirations??
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 13, 2005, 02:08:48 PM
Yup.  Pretty much.

I don't think there's going to be much more love for any two-loss teams this year than there has been in the past.  I do think the playoff expansion will likely let in the one loss teams that have been excluded in the past.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 13, 2005, 02:12:18 PM
Cleveland, I think that a 9-1 Thiel gets a spot; 8-2 doesn't!

A 10-0 Thiel hosts one and maybe 2 games. :)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: PittTBCW on October 13, 2005, 02:20:08 PM
I think both teams will finish strong and will get in reguardless of what happens all around D3 football. The committee is not going to leave out a 9-1 W&J or Thiel team (if Thiel loses one).

Ralph,

I am not 100% sure but how many rounds of the playoffs feature playoff teams hosting games? I know it is the first round for sure.

If Thiel does go 10-0 what seed do you think they may get and how many possible games might they get to host.

Thanks for input and clearification in advance!

Go Tomcats!!!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 13, 2005, 02:20:31 PM
Looking at their Schedule they have:

Waynesburg:  3-2

Bethany:  

TMC: 4-1

Buff St.1-4

Carnegie Mellon: 3-2

What are the odds that Thiel can run the table and would it hurt thiel at all knowing that Buff st, and OWU are not in the South Region?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 13, 2005, 02:32:57 PM
Look, if Thiel runs the table, they'll get a Pool B bid and likely first round game at home. 

If TMC runs the table, then they'll get a Pool B bid, but not necessarily a home game, due to the week 1 loss vs. Hanover.

W&J has to beat TMC and hope that Thiel wins out. 

PAC is in a good position for two of the four Pool B's this year, as it stands now.  I think the only scenario that could keep this from happening is if Wesley loses only one game to Salisbury--then they'll get consideration for the fourth Pool B. 

A one-loss PAC team stands a better chance of getting in than a one-loss ACFC runner up, IMO.  But, it could happen that one of the Pool C slots gets used that way.....
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 13, 2005, 02:36:49 PM
Josh,

If W&J runs the table, why do they care if Thiel "wins out"?

At 9-1, W&J's in.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: PittTBCW on October 13, 2005, 02:41:13 PM
Quote from: bobgregg on October 13, 2005, 02:36:49 PM
Josh,

If W&J runs the table, why do they care if Thiel "wins out"?

At 9-1, W&J's in.

If Thiel runs the table they are also in.

Right???

Or could a 9-1 W&J team get picked over a 10-0 Thiel team

Or are you saying no matter what happens W&J at 9-1 and Thiel at 10-0 are both in?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 13, 2005, 02:42:45 PM
I that's likely, but not a foregone conclusion, Bob.  

QOWI might have something to say about that.  W&J needs Thiel to keep winning to keep their QOWI high.  If they fall apart, that loss will weigh heavier on W&J's QOWI, and potentially make them look less attractive as an at-large to a one loss Wesley team.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 13, 2005, 02:44:20 PM
If Thiel falls apart, 9-1 W&J is in via Pool B. Period.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 13, 2005, 02:46:19 PM
Yes, Thiel would be in at 10-0.

TMC needs to win out, because w/ 2 losses they'd likely be out of the running.  If they win out, that means W&J is 8-2, and out of the running.  A 9-1 TMC team has a head-to-head advantage over a 9-1 Thiel.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 13, 2005, 02:46:54 PM
Bob, you are correct on your last point.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 13, 2005, 02:49:16 PM
Cleveland, the hosting of the games is whether the filed has been approved (Wesley in 2000).

The South Region #1 will host 3 games and may host the Semis- if it is seed higher (#1 or #2).
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 13, 2005, 02:51:48 PM
thanks guys....
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 13, 2005, 02:57:52 PM
What about a Mount vs Thiel matchup...Alliance, OH is only right over the border and proably just as far as Washington, PA????
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 13, 2005, 02:59:43 PM
Cleveland, yes, if Thiel were moved to the "Mount Union" Bracket and out of the "Hardin-Simmons" bracket (as of today and the recent Top 25).
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 13, 2005, 03:00:47 PM
It will just depend on who else gets in, Cleveland.  The NCAA is slave to their travel restrictions, but they also still have to fill out the South bracket with a deserving team.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 13, 2005, 03:08:15 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 13, 2005, 02:49:16 PM
Cleveland, the hosting of the games is whether the filed has been approved (Wesley in 2000).


And the AD files the proper paperwork to host a game. In Bridgewater's first playoff year we didn't file and as a result had to travel to a lower seed. And believe it or not it was an honest mistake since we had never made the playoffs in 100yrs of football! :'(
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 13, 2005, 03:12:16 PM
And back in the OLD days, I believe it was Thomas More that didn't file to even participate, and W&J got in because of it, and did pretty well.

I could be mistaken, but I'm almost positive it was TMC (that was the first time I'd ever heard of TMC).
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 13, 2005, 03:22:17 PM
Unbelievable that is something that I hope the boys over at Thiel will know to do, but then again I believe they havent been to the Playoffs at all either!!!!!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 13, 2005, 04:48:03 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on October 13, 2005, 02:57:52 PM
What about a Mount vs Thiel matchup...Alliance, OH is only right over the border and proably just as far as Washington, PA????

Be careful what you wish for.    :D
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 13, 2005, 07:47:07 PM
Trust me Boys I would take WJ first round the 2nd time then going after Mount for the first time!!!!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on October 14, 2005, 12:21:39 PM
Alright ... let me join in on this discussion.  I'm providing just a projection, with the following assumptions:

Hampden-Sydney will beat Johns Hopkins
Salisbury will beat Wesley
Christopher Newport will beat Ferrum
Johns Hopkins will beat McDaniel
Hardin-Simmons will beat both East Texas Baptist & Mary Hardin-Baylor
Wabash will beat DePauw

Obviously, any number of the games above can be reversed ... just my opinion.  So here is what the South Region will look like at the end of the year (barring any upsets and taking the above as what will occur):


SeedSchoolReg. RecordQoW indexOverall RecordBig Reg. WinsBig Non-Reg. WinsLosses
1Har.-Simmons9-0~10.7710-0vs MHBnonenone
2Thiel9-0~11.4410-0@ W&Jnonenone
3Trinity, TX8-0~10.509-0vs Hun.nonenone
4Salisbury5-0~12.209-1@ Wesleynonevs M'Clair St.
5Johns Hopkins8-1~10.339-1nonenone@ H-SC
6CNU7-1~10.258-2@ Ferrumnonevs Rowan, vs Sal.
7Bridgewater7-1~9.758-1@ H-SC@ Hanovervs McDaniel
8Wesley6-1~10.439-1@ DePauwnonevs Salisbury
--Ham.-Sydney9-1~10.309-1vs JHUnonevs BC
--Wash. & Jeff.7-1~9.879-1none@ Hanovervs Thiel
--DePauw6-1~9.577-2nonenonevs Wes., vs Wabash
--Ferrum8-1~9.339-1nonenonevs CNU

I just considered South Region teams with one or less in-region losses, thus bumping MHB from consideration.  If the above pans out, then Wesley and Hampden-Sydney is a toss-up for the last seed.  Of course all this is assuming the South Region gets just eight in, with no one being shipped out (and no one being shipped in).

So I'd project first round games being;

#3 Trinity (TX) at #1 Hardin-Simmons
#7 Bridgewater at #6 Christopher Newport

#8 Wesley at #2 Thiel
#5 Johns Hopkins at #4 Salisbury
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 14, 2005, 12:29:24 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on October 13, 2005, 07:47:07 PM
Trust me Boys I would take WJ first round the 2nd time then going after Mount for the first time!!!!

Which weighs more, Cartel--a ton of feathers or a ton of bricks?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 14, 2005, 12:40:23 PM
Quote from: bobgregg on October 14, 2005, 12:29:24 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on October 13, 2005, 07:47:07 PM
Trust me Boys I would take WJ first round the 2nd time then going after Mount for the first time!!!!

Which weighs more, Cartel--a ton of feathers or a ton of bricks?

Well, they weigh the same.  But which is easier to plow through?   ;D
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: religion_major on October 14, 2005, 12:49:09 PM
Kid,
Judging from the history of the USA south I would count on CNU to loose at least once in confrence.  Methodist is looking decently good this season.  Granted Ferum hasn't played anyone but that could be a close one.  Another travel related question, why wouldn't the NCAA then ship Bridgewater to Salisbury and send CNU to JHU?  Both of those matchups would be within the 500 mile bus limit. 
Title: Feathers and Bricks
Post by: pakownr97 on October 14, 2005, 12:52:52 PM
I don't know much about feathers and bricks, but I do know this.

Mount Union is much better than Thiel or W & J.

And I'd bet a brick to a feather on that.

Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 14, 2005, 01:11:14 PM
Boys,

You wish in one hand and Crap in the other and see which one will get filled up first!!! Take your pic!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 14, 2005, 01:12:11 PM
Kidd great work on all that!! Thats unbelievable now lets hope that these teams can finish out this way and no more math will have to be involved!!!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: sthrncwby on October 14, 2005, 04:03:51 PM
kid,  wouldn't #1 in region get a first round bye?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: religion_major on October 14, 2005, 04:09:48 PM
sthrncwby,
Not since the playoffs expanded to 32 teams.  The only first round bye is for teams who get a bye until next August.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 14, 2005, 04:13:07 PM
All the byes are gone now!! Wow that is something new!! No rest for the Weary....
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: 2055ie on October 14, 2005, 04:32:57 PM
KID,
Just out of curiosity. Taking your assumption that Salsibury beats Wesley. How are you getting Wesley into the playoffs? By my calculations Wesley only plays 5 regional games(based on the schedule provided by D3football.com) that count and with 1 loss that leaves them at .800 in regional competition. With one of the primary criteria being W-L % against regional opponents, .800 is decidedly lower than say, from their region, W&J which you have projected at .875 granted with a lower QoW; or from the West Region where a team could finish with a .857 W-L% and a higher QoW.

Always enjoy reading your analyses, keep them coming
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 14, 2005, 04:36:10 PM
Cleveland,  I think HSU having a bye actually hurt them going into their game with UMHB.  Early in the game, they were not sharp at all.  It seemed to make a difference.  I'm glad there are no longer byes, because it lets 4 more teams into the field.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 14, 2005, 05:04:48 PM
Bill
I could not agree with you anymore.  I believe it is a good thing in Div 3 football because there are so many quality teams in the past that did not get in the playoffs.   Compared to Div 1 these kids do not get scholarships or the glamour.  They truly love the game for what it is, and dont get me wrong I know the D 1 boys love playing ball.  But it is easier to be involved with something that you get a free ride to school, possible future money, and all the spotlight from kirk Herbstreet Lee Corso and crew.  They appreciate the game and realize they have only four more years to put it down and finish their football careers they way they want it to be written.

It is four more teams and I am happy to see the playoffs expanding personally.  We will really see who is mentally prepared to play the required games to play in the Stagg Bowl, and who is prepared to show their team is the full package!

Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 14, 2005, 07:29:09 PM
Kid, there is NO WAY that the PAC and the ACFC each get two and ETBU gets left out with only one DIII loss to HSU.

I assume that you think they'll lose to UMHB, but you didn't even calculate them on your chart!  TMC either!  That's a very Middle Atlantic-centric chart you've got up there.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on October 14, 2005, 09:44:32 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on October 14, 2005, 07:29:09 PM
Kid, there is NO WAY that the PAC and the ACFC each get two and ETBU gets left out with only one DIII loss to HSU.

I assume that you think they'll lose to UMHB, but you didn't even calculate them on your chart!  TMC either!  That's a very Middle Atlantic-centric chart you've got up there.

I'll repeat what I said in my post...

I just considered South Region teams with one or less in-region losses (using my projected outcomes).  Just my opinion, lol ... no need to get snippy.  :D
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 14, 2005, 11:24:40 PM
Not snippy, just kinda surprised, that's all.   ;)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: PittTBCW on October 15, 2005, 01:57:17 AM
There is no doubt that Mount is one of the best teams in the country let alone probably the best program. To say that W&J or Thiel could not compete with them is another story. I am not saying they would beat them...do not jump to that conclusion but compete with them is another story. Hate to say it but on any day pretty much anyone can beat anyone and to say a top 3 mount team is that much better then two end of the year top 12 teams is crazy!

Would love to see one of them match up with Mount to see where the PAC is.

Like I said before they may not beat them but would compete!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: badbadman on October 15, 2005, 09:30:17 AM
If CNU wins the USAC, with only 9 D3 games, 2 losses, and a 6-1 regional record, I think they probably would be seeded lower.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 15, 2005, 02:03:42 PM
Quote from: PittTBCW on October 15, 2005, 01:57:17 AM
There is no doubt that Mount is one of the best teams in the country let alone probably the best program. To say that W&J or Thiel could not compete with them is another story. I am not saying they would beat them...do not jump to that conclusion but compete with them is another story. Hate to say it but on any day pretty much anyone can beat anyone and to say a top 3 mount team is that much better then two end of the year top 12 teams is crazy!

Would love to see one of them match up with Mount to see where the PAC is.

Like I said before they may not beat them but would compete!

Thiel is trailing Waynesburg 14-0 in the first quarter.  While they may come back and win, I don't think you need to be worrying about how competitive they might be with Mount.  The answer is "not." 
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 16, 2005, 02:42:48 AM
Ronald,


Never judge a book by its cover....

or a team by the way they play in a half.....

And don't underestimate waynesburg either....

Give yourself minus karma
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Dutch12 on October 16, 2005, 08:12:57 AM
I'm a huge Thiel fan, but for the most part I think I would have to agree with Ron on this one.  There is no doubt Thiel is having a great year, but to say they are on the same level as Mount is a huge stretch.  I think to be competitive with Mount, Thiel would have to play their best game ever and Mount would have to play pretty bad. 

Thiel is a legit playoff team though, they did get down 14-0 to W&J and 21-0 to Waynseburg, but they were able to come back and win both games on the road where plenty of teams have struggled to win.  That I think speaks volumes of how this team is coached and the character of this team to never give up. 
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 16, 2005, 12:53:54 PM
dutch,

I never did disagree with Ron about who would win or lose.  His words on Thiel being down to Waynesburg 14-0  in the first half has no implications on who would win the matchup with Mount and Thiel.  If you compared the first 6 games and maybe the history over the last 10 years we would have an overwhelming agreement with the verdict going to Mount.  But to say they would not be competitive and lose becaues they are down 14-0 at half is no valid comparison.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 16, 2005, 04:06:52 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on October 16, 2005, 12:53:54 PM
dutch,

I never did disagree with Ron about who would win or lose.  His words on Thiel being down to Waynesburg 14-0  in the first half has no implications on who would win the matchup with Mount and Thiel.  If you compared the first 6 games and maybe the history over the last 10 years we would have an overwhelming agreement with the verdict going to Mount.  But to say they would not be competitive and lose becaues they are down 14-0 at half is no valid comparison.

In your opinion, pseudonymous one.   Besides, the point you raise is not the same as the one I was making. 

If you can't come out and whip the butt of an unranked (~.500) team, you're not going to compete with Mount.    Waynesburg didn't have the horses to take advantage of that lead, and the Raiders will just keep pilin' on.   Thiel is having a great season, but there's a huge difference between simply being undefeated in the regular season and being at the top of the D3 pyramid.   Many of us who have been following D3 for years understand that. 
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 16, 2005, 04:43:36 PM
Ron,

With your years of experience and use of large words you well know that the Waynesburg game is the classic reason why you play every saturday.  Nothing is to be taken for grant it in any division and that is why Mount is never penciled in the National Championship game every year.  They know they are the best around and a top the D3 pyramid, but if you don't come out to play every saturday you will not be invited to the playoffs.  They did not whip their butts NO, do they really need to?  Would it be good to you?  Should they have? 

Bottom Line:  Thiel showed character and backbone coming back to win at Waynesburg.  They got the W peroid...
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 16, 2005, 05:22:01 PM
Oh, let's be reasonable. Being down 21-0 to Waynesburg is the equivalent of being down 56-0 on Mount Union. That's just reality. Mount Union doesn't make unforced mistakes.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Toby Taff on October 16, 2005, 05:54:26 PM
Pat,

Isn't asking for reason from a fan oxymoronic in some way?  ;D

That would be like trying to convince one of the Ferrumites that they're not worthy of a top 25 spot. :D
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 16, 2005, 07:25:41 PM
True, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't try. :)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Allen C on October 16, 2005, 09:56:07 PM
Well I'm a Ferrumite, and while I do not believe that Ferrum is ready to claim the D3 National Championship, I dont think its a stretch to see them ranked. I dont expect it, because of the strength of schedule.(ooc)
I am curious as to how the strength of schedule/qowi affects the rankings? Is their alot of emphasis placed on this by the voters?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 16, 2005, 10:04:32 PM
I would say many voters (can't make a blanket statement, of course, because we have 25 individuals) place a great deal of emphasis on strength of schedule, but definitely not using the NCAA's QOW formula.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 16, 2005, 10:08:15 PM
Any team that is unknown has to do a number of things to start getting votes.  You don't have to do all of them, but the more you have going for you, the higher you're going to end up:

- Win ballgames (Ferrum has got this going, congrats).
- Be a member of a respected conference.
- Consistently win ballgames over a period of years.
- Beat people the voters have heard of. 
- Win playoff games.

Voters don't (IMHO since I don't vote!) look at the QoWI numbers, but they do consider the opponents a team plays and margins of victory.  Sometimes.  :D


Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 16, 2005, 10:28:19 PM
Week #7 Comparison

* ranking will be based on current QOWI w/in each loss column
@ - indicates teams eligible for Pool B bids

AFCA rankings to be updated Tuesday

"0" D-III LOSS TEAMS  with (overall w/l) (regional w/l) QOWI

1.  TRINITY                  (5-0) (4-0)   12.50        D3 #10    AFCA #8
    WESLEY @              (7-0) (4-0)   12.50        D3 #22    AFCA #25  
3.  JOHNS HOPKINS        (6-0) (5-0)   11.20                     AFCA #15                 
4.  THIEL @                  (6-0) (6-0)   11.17        D3 #18   AFCA #20
5.  HARDIN-SIMMONS     (6-0) (5-0)   10.40        D3 # 3    AFCA #4
6.  FERREM                   (7-0) (6-0)   10.33

"1" D-III LOSS TEAMS

1.   SALISBURY @            (5-1) (2-0)   14.50      D3 #17  
2.   WASH & LEE              (5-1) (4-1)   10.60
3.   ETBU                       (4-2) (4-1)      9.80
4.   WASH & JEFF @         (6-1) (4-1)     9.40     D3 # 16   AFCA #17
5.   BRIDGEWATER           (4-1) (3-1)      9.00     D3 #19    AFCA #14
6.   DEPAUW                   (4-1) (3-1)     8.75
7.   HUNTINGDON @         (5-1) (4-1)     8.60
8.   CENTRE                    (6-1) (4-1)     8.40
9.   UMHB                       (4-1) (3-1)     8.25      D3# 9     AFCA #10

* ETBU has only 1 in region loss and 1 loss to a D-II team, thus in the NCAA's eyes, a (4-1) D-III record.

"2" D-III LOSS TEAMS

1.   MCDANIEL                  (4-2) (3-2)    9.00
2.   HAMPDEN SYDNEY       (4-2) (4-2)    8.67
3.   CNU                          (4-2) (3-1)    7.75
4.   METHODIST                (4-2) (4-2)    7.50
5.   THOMAS MORE @        (4-2) (4-2)    7.33
6.   MCMURRY                  (4-2) (3-2)     6.80

*CNU has only 1 in region loss & would be considered ahead of 2 regional loss teams based on NCAA Primary selection criteria

* Once a team has more than 2 losses in region they will drop from consideration as the season progresses. Note: Pool A (automatic qualifiers) will throw "a wrench" into the number of spots available in the South Region. Total spots available in the DIII Playoff Field = 32.


South Region (Pool A) Berths (Conference Champions w/ Auto-bids)

American Southwest Conference -
Centennial Conference -
Old Dominion Athletic Conference -
Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference -
USA South Athletic Conference -

* conference champions to be updated once official
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 16, 2005, 10:33:05 PM
Quote from: Llamaguy on October 16, 2005, 10:28:19 PM
Total spots available in each region = 8. In the South Region it consists of 5 Pool A (Automatic qualifiers) and 3 Pool B/C participants.

This is not true. There's nothing that says the South has to get more than five bids. They could get five, six, seven, eight, nine, even 10 if they all qualify. There is no set number of teams per region, just 32 selections which are then placed into brackets of eight teams apiece.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 16, 2005, 10:48:57 PM
Thanks Pat. I changed it so as not to confuse any posters new to the D3 playoff format.

And I'd be willing to bet that 9 or 10 invitations will go to South Region teams this year. Looks like the East will be getting visitors from the South and/or North yet again.

Still alot of football to play yet though. ;)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 17, 2005, 12:24:10 AM
Quote from: Llamaguy on October 16, 2005, 10:28:19 PM
Week #7 Comparison

*CNU & ETBU both have only 1 in region loss & would be considered ahead of 2 regional loss teams based on NCAA Primary selection criteria


Llama, this is a lot of work  --- thanks.

One thing about ETBU:  Their second loss is to a D-II school.  As far as the NCAA and the selection process is concerned, they're a one loss team.  The D-II game doesn't factor into the equation.

Slap me down if I'm wrong, Pat.   :o
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 17, 2005, 12:31:56 AM
Ron, you understand the primary criteria correctly.  IMHO, ETBU should be moved to the "one loss" group!  Great job Llama guy!  Plus one karma! ;)

It is all about in-region records!  I have added the Pool A conferences to the list of undefeateds.

Quote1.  TRINITY (SCAC)                 (5-0) (4-0)   12.50        D3 #10   AFCA #
     WESLEY @              (7-0) (4-0)   12.50        D3 #22   
3.  JOHNS HOPKINS  (CC)      (6-0) (5-0)   11.20                   
4.  THIEL @                  (6-0) (6-0)   11.17        D3 #18
5.  HARDIN-SIMMONS (ASC)    (6-0) (5-0)   10.40        D3 # 3    AFCA #
6.  FERREM (USAC)               (7-0) (6-0)  10.33
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: PittTBCW on October 17, 2005, 01:16:17 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 16, 2005, 05:22:01 PM
Oh, let's be reasonable. Being down 21-0 to Waynesburg is the equivalent of being down 56-0 on Mount Union. That's just reality. Mount Union doesn't make unforced mistakes.

Pat,

Let me get this right then...If being down 21-0 and coming back vs Waynesburg is the same as being down 56-0 and coming back vs Mount. Wow you are really turning into a Tomcat fan!!! (HAHA)

I love all of the Thiel doubters!!!

Forget the fact that they came back against a decent football team who has won 14 straight home games, o yea forget that they came back after being down 14-0 @ W&J who has owned the PAC and have won playoff games for the past upteen years. Since Thiel has not faired very well for a while (not counting last year 7-3) they are lucky to be 6-0. They have not made the playoffs for years so that makes them not that good either. Since they do not play in Mount Union's conference again they are not good.

Remember they said Thiel can not even COMPETE with MOUNT!!!

No I am not saying Thiel would beat them so understand the difference before I get some dredded, makes it hard to sleep negative Karma!

Tomcats just take it one game at a time and surprise all these guru's who probably never strapped it up and played. The people who have seen you believe in you guys.

As always..."Take care of the small things, and the big things will happen!"


GO Tomcats!!!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Toby Taff on October 17, 2005, 01:55:23 AM
Quote from: PittTBCW on October 17, 2005, 01:16:17 AM

Forget the fact that they came back against a decent football team who has won 14 straight home games, o yea forget that they came back after being down 14-0 @ W&J who has owned the PAC and have won playoff games for the past upteen years. . . .

Remember they said Thiel can not even COMPETE with MOUNT!!!


Pitt,

I don't generally wade into these discussions, but I have to say something.  Thiel deserves respect for what it is doing, i.e. winning their games, but that said let's think about the nature of the competition compared to MUC.  You came back on W&J "who has owned the PAC".  I just went and looked at their playoff escapades for the past 5 years.  None of their playoff losses were within 2 touchdowns of the advancing team and in each of those years, Mount went to the final game save 2004 when UMHB eeked out the last second win.  Thiel, like MHB last year, may be on a roll that just won't stop.  It happens, but reality says that W&J and MUC are on different plateaus, maybe different planets when it comes to skill level.  Until proven otherwise, it is safe to say Thiel can compete if you mean they can suit up and play the game, but if you mean make the game fun for anyone but Purple Raider fan to watch, uh! uh!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 17, 2005, 08:25:40 AM
Quote from: PittTBCW on October 17, 2005, 01:16:17 AM
...Tomcats just take it one game at a time and surprise all these guru's who probably never strapped it up and played. The people who have seen you believe in you guys.

PittTBCW, I'm a "guru" who NEVER strapped it on in this sport, but believe me, I have a little idea what it takes to compete athletically.

I was not then, am not now, surprised by Thiel's success.

The Tomcats' win over W&J did not come out of left field, at least not to the WJPA broadcast crew.  We've seen it coming, and have written so in this forum.

Enjoy the moment.  As one who's been down the path a time or two, believe me, it vanishes rather quickly.

And, I repeat, don't start engraving the National Championship trophy just yet.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Dutch12 on October 17, 2005, 08:51:19 AM
Bob you're exactly right.  I'm not sure why people are trying to guage how Thiel would due vs. Mount on some of these boards, but if Thiel fans want a quick painful end to a great season Mount would serve it up.  I'm a huge Thiel fan and certainly I am rooting for them to win every game, but let's try to keep things in perspective a bit Tomcat fans.  We should be concentrating on winning the PAC and a conference championship before we start claiming we're national championship contenders.  That is exactly what you are claiming when you say Thiel can compete with Mount because any team that "Competes" with Mount is a national championship contender.

Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: PittTBCW on October 17, 2005, 08:51:35 AM
Trust me I am far from engraving the National Championship trophy or making reservations for the Stagg Bowl. I just honestly think that Thiel or W&J could compete with a Mount Union team in a playoff type atmosphere. I am not saying they would be them, but it would be a game that was interesting to both sides for a good portion of the game.

Thats all.

I know it vanishes quickly. Hopefully not too quickly.

Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 17, 2005, 08:52:07 AM
Thanks Ralph & Bonzo. Ask and you shall receive. I have moved ETBU to the new "1 D-III LOSS" column were they are now 3rd, based on QOWI, in that group. As I said at the beginnig, this is a work in progress, any corrections/suggestions are encouraged.

Not that much work to do this now that the template is there. Pat Coleman makes it easy to do with this site's resources. The real fun will be when be get down to " the nitty-gritty " in a few weeks and have to split hairs based on quality wins and  how many spots will be open to South teams based on the rest of D-III. ;)

A college football playoff system is the best thing since popcorn. When will the NCAA D-1 guys figure that out? I know, when they figure out how to make more $ by doing it that way. Sad, just plain sad!


Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 17, 2005, 09:04:08 AM
Quote from: PittTBCW on October 17, 2005, 08:51:35 AM
Trust me I am far from engraving the National Championship trophy or making reservations for the Stagg Bowl. I just honestly think that Thiel or W&J could compete with a Mount Union team in a playoff type atmosphere. I am not saying they would be them, but it would be a game that was interesting to both sides for a good portion of the game.




Unless W&J has improved their team speed, I don't think they will match up with Mount.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: PittTBCW on October 17, 2005, 11:50:09 AM
I am sure glad that DIII football does it right and has a playoff system. I especially like that 4 more teams get in this year. I wish that the NCAA would do something like this in DI-A.


Pat,

How do I get Karma up????

Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 17, 2005, 11:52:10 AM
Quote from: PittTBCW on October 17, 2005, 11:50:09 AM

How do I get Karma up????

I just helped you....
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: PittTBCW on October 17, 2005, 12:00:17 PM
Thanks

Bob


I will tell Dawson you said hello.

I coach with him
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: ThielFan on October 17, 2005, 12:06:14 PM
Quote from: PittTBCW on October 17, 2005, 01:16:17 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 16, 2005, 05:22:01 PM
Oh, let's be reasonable. Being down 21-0 to Waynesburg is the equivalent of being down 56-0 on Mount Union. That's just reality. Mount Union doesn't make unforced mistakes.

Pat,

Let me get this right then...If being down 21-0 and coming back vs Waynesburg is the same as being down 56-0 and coming back vs Mount. Wow you are really turning into a Tomcat fan!!! (HAHA)

I love all of the Thiel doubters!!!


Pitt, I think you are missing the point here... if Thiel makes those kind of mistakes they did on Saturday against playoff quality opposition, you are going to be down a lot more than 21 points, and you're NOT going to be able to get back into the game.  I love Thiel, but they ARE mortal.  They've had three really close games that all turned out in their favor, and I'd love to see them turn out a decisive victory against a really good opponent before I'm going to mention them in the same breath as Mount Union, or Rowan, or anybody else.  That being said, they've put themselves in a really great position to win the PAC and even possibly go to the Division III playoffs.  If they manage that, then they'll get a chance to prove their credentials on the field against the nation's best.  Until then, it's one game at a time, going 1-0 every week.

GO CATS!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: spliskin on October 17, 2005, 12:34:22 PM
Quote from: PittTBCW on October 17, 2005, 11:50:09 AM


Pat,

How do I get Karma up????



Quit being a knuckle-head on these boards and your Karma might climb. Thiel has improved greatly, but you're being ridiculous with your statements and asking to get knocked down. Nobody on the face of the earth, except those with emotion tied to the T-Cats, will believe they can compete with Mount Union. All they need to do is keep winning games to put themselves in position to take a shot. Your like Thiel's worst nightmare with your prognosticating & boasting. You keep saying "Stay focused men, one game at a time, Yada, Yada", and you keep focusing on sh*t that is irrelevant & may never even happen. Take your own advice and focus one week at a time.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: evacuee on October 17, 2005, 04:35:44 PM

Are conference champs always seeded higher than Pool B bids? 

Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 17, 2005, 04:44:32 PM
Quote from: TU2698 on October 17, 2005, 04:35:44 PM

Are conference champs always seeded higher than Pool B bids? 



Nope. As Pat stated earlier, the selection committee selects 32 teams to be in the playoff. 21 enter as Conference champions (Pool A), 4 enter as Pool B(teams in conferences without an auto-bid), 7 enter as Pool C teams. 4 new spots in Pool C this year, which are available to any remaining Pool B teams and any non-Conference champions not already in the playoffs.

Once the field is set at 32, then they are split into 4 regions of 8 and each seeded comparatively amongst those 8 in each region. That being said, seeding does not mean you host or match-up 1 vs. 8 , etc. The almightly travel dollar dictates who plays who in the early rounds of the playoffs. But atleast we have a playoff so I can live with that.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: evacuee on October 17, 2005, 05:03:07 PM

I'm just looking for Trinity to win out and head to Abilene to play HSU.  My guess is that if HSU wins out, UMHB will likely not make it due to Howard Payne's record and the fact that they would have 2 losses.  If Trinity and HSU are unbeaten, and the ASC only sends one team, will that seal up a Trinity at HSU first round game?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 17, 2005, 05:18:49 PM
Yep.

Probably the only way for Trinity to get a home playoff game is to win out and have either ETBU or UMHB win out.   TU would likely host the ASC runner-up in that scenario. 
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 17, 2005, 05:19:18 PM
Quote from: TU2698 on October 17, 2005, 05:03:07 PM

I'm just looking for Trinity to win out and head to Abilene to play HSU.  My guess is that if HSU wins out, UMHB will likely not make it due to Howard Payne's record and the fact that they would have 2 losses.  If Trinity and HSU are unbeaten, and the ASC only sends one team, will that seal up a Trinity at HSU first round game?

If they are the only 2 Texas teams to get in thats very possible. You still have a few options to stay home though:

If there are 3 deep South region/ TX teams in I think HSU & Trinity host week 1(ie. someone flys in to play one of them) and the winners play each other in the 2nd round. This is the previously know "Texas Sub-regional bracket".  ;D

I would have also mentioned Centre but assumed Trinity will give them their 2nd in region loss. ;)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 17, 2005, 05:30:58 PM
What would be interesting is what to do with a single Texas playoff team.

HSU could be placed anywhere the committee wished.

Every opponent is a flight, as might it be with Linfield if there is no Pool B/C for the NWC runner-up.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Toby Taff on October 17, 2005, 06:06:39 PM
Ralph,

Don't Texas teams like road games? ;D

My question about Trinity vs ASC #2. Hasn't that worked out poorly for TU over the past couple of years? ;)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 17, 2005, 07:52:19 PM
UMHB, they do like road games there in Belton, don't they!

If, DPU won the SCAC, and Trinity did not get the Pool C, and ETBU/UMHB/HPU folded, then what does the HSU bracket look like?  Where do you seed HSU?   On top and flying up to 3 teams into Abilene?

One other queston for someone with a Streets and Trips...

I think that Huntingdon in Montgomery is just under 500 miles from ETBU in Marshall TX by the way that I would drive it.  Am I correct? 
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 17, 2005, 09:37:39 PM
Quote from: mhb8904 on October 17, 2005, 06:06:39 PM
Ralph,

Don't Texas teams like road games? ;D

My question about Trinity vs ASC #2. Hasn't that worked out poorly for TU over the past couple of years? ;)

Trinity only played "ASC #2" last year.  They travelled (and lost in OT) to conference (tri-) champion ETBU the year before.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 17, 2005, 09:45:47 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 17, 2005, 07:52:19 PM
UMHB, they do like road games there in Belton, don't they!

If, DPU won the SCAC, and Trinity did not get the Pool C, and ETBU/UMHB/HPU folded, then what does the HSU bracket look like?  Where do you seed HSU?   On top and flying up to 3 teams into Abilene?

One other queston for someone with a Streets and Trips...

I think that Huntingdon in Montgomery is just under 500 miles from ETBU in Marshall TX by the way that I would drive it.  Am I correct? 

As long as HSU wins out, the Cowboys have to be a #1.  I don't think even the NCAA is dumb greedy stupid east-coast biased foolish enough to screw that up.  If they have to fly everyone in there, they fly everyone in there.  Otherwise they have to fly HSU everywhere and what's the difference from a $$ viewpoint?

As far as the rest of the question goes, Ralph, I don't know how you drive.   :D  Mapquest says the distance between the campuses of ETBU and HC is 504.46 miles. 
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 17, 2005, 10:08:58 PM
Bonzo, I drive from Huntingdon to Marshall via Fairview Ave to I-65 southbound to westbound US Hwy 80 thru Selma to Cuba AL, then I-20 thru MS and LA to Marshall TX.

Actually, the odometer on my car is under 3.3 miles per 100, so that may be where I had the question.

In 2001, Trinity hosted #2 UMHB who received a Pool C bid and defeated them.

Thanks for the Streets and Maps.

That means that Huntingdon will probably fly anywhere it goes in the playoffs.

Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 17, 2005, 10:34:54 PM
Should they qualify, that is.  They have to win the rest of the way (doesn't seem like it's going to be that difficult) and hope Trinity does too.  Trinity not getting in the playoffs won't help the Hawks' slim chances.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 17, 2005, 10:42:24 PM
QuoteThat means that Huntingdon will probably fly anywhere it goes in the playoffs.

Let me change that last sentence. :)

"That means that Huntingdon will probably fly anywhere it goes in the playoffs ever."

I don't think that the tectonic plate activity will move Marshall 5 miles closer to Huntingdon in the next century. ;)

I also assume that Mapquest measures the itinerary that I stated.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 18, 2005, 12:12:17 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 17, 2005, 10:42:24 PM
QuoteThat means that Huntingdon will probably fly anywhere it goes in the playoffs.

Let me change that last sentence. :)

"That means that Huntingdon will probably fly anywhere it goes in the playoffs ever."


If ETBU & Huntingdon, a big if, both made the playoff, then I bet the NCAA would make a 4.46 mile clause to save thousands of dollars. And as far as ever , remember LaGrange enters DIII next year and a few years down the road may give Huntingdon somewhere to drive to. Although I believe they will be playing each other during the regular season. ;)

Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 18, 2005, 04:50:30 AM
Huntingdon to ETBU is 501.4 according to Streets & Trips' shortest possible distance setting.

Don't forget Millsaps and Mississippi College are also within 500 miles.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 18, 2005, 07:46:59 AM
Quote"That means that Huntingdon will probably fly anywhere it goes in the playoffs ever."


I guess I was displaying a degree of pessimism about the prospects of Millsaps and Mississippi College ever displacing Trinity/DePauw and HSU/ETBU/UMHB/HPU/et al. from the playoffs.

A likely Montgomery AL to Marshall TX itinerary would be a one stop flight from Montgomery via Memphis to DFW and a 4 hours bus ride to Marshall or Montgomery to Shreveport LA charter and 1 hour bus ride to ETBU.

Thanks for the Streets and Trips info.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Toby Taff on October 18, 2005, 10:14:48 AM
Ralph,

An easier trip would be to fly out of B'Ham and into Shreveport or Dallas.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 18, 2005, 11:54:02 AM
Week 7 South Region Watch Chart has been updated with new AFCA rankings. note: these rankings are not a primary or secondary critria in the NCAA's selection process

The South Region NCAA ranking will also be added as information
in a few weeks once the NCAA begins its listing. ;)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 18, 2005, 11:55:09 AM
Week #7 Comparison

* ranking will be based on current QOWI w/in each loss column
@ - indicates teams eligible for Pool B bids


"0" D-III LOSS TEAMS  with (overall w/l) (regional w/l) QOWI

1.  TRINITY                  (5-0) (4-0)   12.50        D3 #10    AFCA #8
     WESLEY @              (7-0) (4-0)   12.50        D3 #22    AFCA #25   
3.  JOHNS HOPKINS        (6-0) (5-0)   11.20                     AFCA #15                 
4.  THIEL @                  (6-0) (6-0)   11.17        D3 #18   AFCA #20
5.  HARDIN-SIMMONS     (6-0) (5-0)   10.40        D3 # 3    AFCA #4
6.  FERRUM                   (7-0) (6-0)   10.33

"1" D-III LOSS TEAMS

1.   SALISBURY @            (5-1) (2-0)   14.50      D3 #17 
2.   WASH & LEE              (5-1) (4-1)   10.60
3.   ETBU                       (4-2) (4-1)      9.80
4.   WASH & JEFF @         (6-1) (4-1)     9.40     D3 # 16   AFCA #17
5.   BRIDGEWATER           (4-1) (3-1)      9.00     D3 #19    AFCA #14
6.   DEPAUW                   (4-1) (3-1)     8.75
7.   HUNTINGDON @         (5-1) (4-1)     8.60
8.   CENTRE                    (6-1) (4-1)     8.40
9.   UMHB                       (4-1) (3-1)     8.25      D3# 9     AFCA #10

* ETBU has only 1 in region loss and 1 loss to a D-II team, thus in the NCAA's eyes, a (4-1) D-III record.

"2" D-III LOSS TEAMS

1.   MCDANIEL                  (4-2) (3-2)    9.00
2.   HAMPDEN SYDNEY       (4-2) (4-2)    8.67
3.   ROSE-HULMAN           (5-2) (4-2)     8.00
4.   CNU                          (4-2) (3-1)    7.75
5.   METHODIST                (4-2) (4-2)    7.50
6.   THOMAS MORE @        (4-2) (4-2)    7.33
7.   MCMURRY                  (4-2) (3-2)     6.80

*CNU has only 1 in region loss & would be considered ahead of 2 regional loss teams based on NCAA Primary selection criteria

* Once a team has more than 2 losses in region they will drop from consideration as the season progresses. Note: Pool A (automatic qualifiers) will throw "a wrench" into the number of spots available in the South Region. Total spots available in the DIII Playoff Field = 32.


South Region (Pool A) Berths
(Conference Champions w/ Auto-bids)

American Southwest Conference -
Centennial Conference -
Old Dominion Athletic Conference -
Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference -
USA South Athletic Conference -

* conference champions to be updated once official
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 18, 2005, 02:57:32 PM
Good work, Llama --- a couple of things:

1.  It's "Ferrum," not "Ferrem".   :D
2.  Rose-Hulman is 5-2 (4-2 in-region), so could be added to your list of two-loss SR teams.   Their QoWI is 8.00.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 18, 2005, 03:35:14 PM
mhb8904,

QuoteAn easier trip would be to fly out of B'Ham and into Shreveport or Dallas.

It is about 100 miles from Huntingdon to the Birmingham airport.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 18, 2005, 04:15:42 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger (BfB) on October 18, 2005, 02:57:32 PM
Good work, Llama --- a couple of things:

1.  It's "Ferrum," not "Ferrem".   :D

Oops, my bad. I even live in VA and know them well. ;D
Quote
2.  Rose-Hulman is 5-2 (4-2 in-region), so could be added to your list of two-loss SR teams.   Their QoWI is 8.00.

I actually noticed that today while comparing the remaining schedules of the competeing teams. Looks like they have big games at Centre and at home against DePauw. ;)  Wouldn't want to leave anyone out though.

Thanks for the Heads-up! They have been corrected.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 18, 2005, 04:25:49 PM
Anyone besides me curious as to how the NCAA came to the decision to weight wins/losses in the QOWI the way they do?  Seems like setting the first bar at a .667 winning percentage is a bit low, to me.

I think a more accurate statistical picture of a teams' QOWI would be breaking down opponents at .750, .500 and .250--as the difference between a .500 winning percentage and a .667 winning percentage isn't even two full games.  And, it statistically favors teams that still only play nine games.

Just curious ramblings...
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: badbadman on October 18, 2005, 04:58:06 PM
Josh,

I've thought the %'s were odd as well.  They should probably be based on a 10 game season so .70, .50, and .30 make more sense.  Then again, excluding out of region games dosn't make sense to me either ...
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Toby Taff on October 18, 2005, 05:28:15 PM
Ralph,

Yeah, I know.  All of my relatives, save my immediate family, live in central AL.  I was born in Talladega.  I don't know what I was reading when I responded earlier, I didn't see the suggestion of the charter in to Shreveport.  I think I was just thinking that the ride to B'ham and a direct flight into Shreveport might be cheaper than a four hour trip to Marshall after the flight.  I really don't know why I said anything about Dallas.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 18, 2005, 06:41:28 PM
MHB8904,  As random as this conversation is going...

I looked at the flight schedules out of Shreveport and a team appears to be spending as much time clearing airport security, waiting for bus transportation on arrival and killing time in the various lay-overs as they would spend boarding a bus on campus in Montgomery and striking out for Shreveport.

Also, they might save on lodging for the 2nd night because you cannot get out of Shreveport that late...no sonner than 6 hours after the game...shower, ?eat?, one hour ride to Shreveport airport and then arrival 1 1/2 hours before departure...

A second thought, if I could opt to take the bus and pocket that money I saved the NCAA for my football program, I might be tempted.

As for Talladega, they've (NASCAR's) got to do something about bump-drafting and restrictor plate racing. >:(  There are too many accidents that take good drivers out of the competition. >:(

My recommendation is to make the front ends of the cars aerodynamic, but too fragile to bump-draft. ;)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Toby Taff on October 18, 2005, 06:45:49 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 18, 2005, 06:41:28 PM
As for Talladega, they've (NASCAR's) got to do something about bump-drafting and restrictor plate racing. >:(  There are too many accidents that take good drivers out of the competition. >:(

My recommendation is to make the front ends of the cars aerodynamic, but too fragile to bump-draft. ;)

I say dump the restrictor plates.  I'd love to see 200+.  Besides I'm a fan of Junior, I like the bump draft  ;D

And so we kind of stay on topic.... I think we should take up a collection and have a D3 football car in a Nextel race. :D
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 18, 2005, 07:06:44 PM
Junior's not in "The Chase"! ;D  I have never thought of Junior as the right sponsor for D3.  Now Mark Martin... ;)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Toby Taff on October 18, 2005, 07:44:44 PM
I don't care who drives the car, i'd just like to see the car ;D
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: desertcat1 on October 19, 2005, 11:01:00 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 18, 2005, 07:06:44 PM
Junior's not in "The Chase"! ;D  I have never thought of Junior as the right sponsor for D3.  Now Mark Martin... ;)

The D3 boys don't need  any Viagra, ;D  It should be Mickey Waltrip. (Napa Auto parts),   And the bump will stay as long as the plates are in. Sorry boys..  :)

We will all  have to dig deep to fill that bill? Car Costs $$$?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 19, 2005, 11:31:31 AM
I think that I would rather spend the money on server upgrades and Pat's expense budget for the web site! :)

Maybe individual teams, like

"We had a really good car today, my Rhodes Chevy Roadster.  It was really tight like Professor Jones' physics grading curve, but we loosened it up like Rhodes co-eds at a Beale Street frat party"............ Studio cuts to the commercial and the trustees inquire into the selection of NASCAR as the appropriate venue for marketing dollars. :D
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Toby Taff on October 19, 2005, 02:25:17 PM
I was thinking more like the Pepsi marketing deal with Gordon. He doesn't always drive the Pepsi car, but just a race or two each year.  I think the D3 logo would look great on the hood, and could generate some traffic and therefore ad money to make the server upgrades.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 19, 2005, 02:39:29 PM
Looks like we're starting to get into some of the big games affecting playoff position this weekend--finally!

Mary Hardin-Baylor at Hardin-Simmons
UMHB must win out to land a playoff spot.  Hardin-Simmons could potentially afford the loss, but would likely lose out on the #1 seed in the South bracket if they do.  UMHB has struggled each of the last two weeks offensively, but the home team has a nasty history of losing this game each of the last several years.  

Centre at Trinity
SCAC tilt is the first of two biggies for Centre, as next week they get DePauw.  Which team will show up on both sides?  Both teams have shown flashes of impressive play this season, and both have struggled against teams they were much better than on paper.  

Two wins the next two weeks obviously gets Centre in the dance--barring a final week letdown vs. suddenly strong looking, dark horse Rose Hulman.  Pool C consideration might not be unrealistic for DePauw and Trinity, should they each lose to Centre and depending on how things break in the rest of the region.   RHIT has to win out and hope for a Trinity loss.

Wesley at Brockport State
Brockport only gets four home games this year, and this is the last one for them.  2-4 record possibly diminishe the competitiveness of this squad, as the only serious trip to the woodshed came at the hands of Empire 8 front-runner Ithaca.  Extremely long road trip for Wesley...can the Wolverines escape Brockport with a win, much less a more convincing one than the 5 point victory Salisbury scored in week 2?

Week 7 will be a lot of fun, and will begin to seperate some of these contenders from one another.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 19, 2005, 04:38:18 PM
Can we just go back to the days before stars and karma?  Too many #@%$&*@!s out there for it to work the right way.   >:(
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: njlincolnlion on October 19, 2005, 04:48:45 PM
Here's to hoping Brockport shocks the world  :o and beats Wesley.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Toby Taff on October 19, 2005, 04:51:35 PM
Josh,

Someone is really hating on you.  What's up with that? ???
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mandfense on October 19, 2005, 05:50:14 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on October 19, 2005, 02:39:29 PM
Looks like we're starting to get into some of the big games affecting playoff position this weekend--finally!

Mary Hardin-Baylor at Hardin-Simmons
UMHB must win out to land a playoff spot.  Hardin-Simmons could potentially afford the loss, but would likely lose out on the #1 seed in the South bracket if they do.  UMHB has struggled each of the last two weeks offensively, but the home team has a nasty history of losing this game each of the last several years.  

Centre at Trinity
SCAC tilt is the first of two biggies for Centre, as next week they get DePauw.  Which team will show up on both sides?  Both teams have shown flashes of impressive play this season, and both have struggled against teams they were much better than on paper.  

Two wins the next two weeks obviously gets Centre in the dance--barring a final week letdown vs. suddenly strong looking, dark horse Rose Hulman.  Pool C consideration might not be unrealistic for DePauw and Trinity, should they each lose to Centre and depending on how things break in the rest of the region.   RHIT has to win out and hope for a Trinity loss.

Wesley at Brockport State
Brockport only gets four home games this year, and this is the last one for them.  2-4 record possibly diminishe the competitiveness of this squad, as the only serious trip to the woodshed came at the hands of Empire 8 front-runner Ithaca.  Extremely long road trip for Wesley...can the Wolverines escape Brockport with a win, much less a more convincing one than the 5 point victory Salisbury scored in week 2?

Week 7 will be a lot of fun, and will begin to seperate some of these contenders from one another.

Might want to add Johns Hopkins at Muhlenberg to this list.  Winner is in the driver's seat for the conference.  JHU clinches at least a share of the CC with a win, but Muhlenberg has had Hopkins' number the past few years.

Pool C candidates should be rooting for the Blue Jays this weekend, because a JHU loss drops them into Pool C contention with 1 loss, while Muhlenberg has no shot at a Pool C.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 19, 2005, 06:28:55 PM
And the 5th game of the week must be: CNU at Methodist

A loss for Methodist eliminates them from the playoffs.
A CNU win sets up a USAC title game with Ferrum in November.
Now should Methodist win & Ferrum loses to CNU then gentlemen we have a 3-way tie in the USAC and a 9-1 Ferrum team waiting on a Pool C invitation should it not win the tiebreaker. ;)

Should be a fun month ahead seeing how all this sorts itself out, it usually does, on the field! ;D
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 20, 2005, 09:35:45 AM
CNU/Methodist might be an interesting game, lamaguy, as both teams have similar results against common opponents.  You're right--it's certainly an elimination game in the USAC.

However, if JHU loses to a 3-3 Muhlenberg team this year, then the Centinnial Conference should be stripped of its automatic bid and receive no consideration for Pool C at all!   ;)  LOL
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: cnu85 on October 20, 2005, 05:33:24 PM
MHB,

It's been awhile since I had to look up a word....progeny....I like it.

Llama....CNU will take caer of "bidness" the rest of the year. Not to worry.

Anyone know who CNU will replace Chowan with on the schedule next year?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mandfense on October 22, 2005, 09:32:26 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on October 20, 2005, 09:35:45 AM
However, if JHU loses to a 3-3 Muhlenberg team this year, then the Centinnial Conference should be stripped of its automatic bid and receive no consideration for Pool C at all!   ;)  LOL

I agreed with you Josh, but I didn't want to jinx it by saying anything before the game.   ;D

Interesting scenario with the Hardin-Simmons loss today.  Looking ahead a little bit, IF they run the table, does a 10-0 JHU get the #1 seed in the South?  JHU and Ferrum are currently the only 2 undefeated South region teams.  Scary.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on October 22, 2005, 09:36:33 PM
Quote from: mandfense on October 22, 2005, 09:32:26 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on October 20, 2005, 09:35:45 AM
However, if JHU loses to a 3-3 Muhlenberg team this year, then the Centinnial Conference should be stripped of its automatic bid and receive no consideration for Pool C at all!   ;)  LOL

I agreed with you Josh, but I didn't want to jinx it by saying anything before the game.   ;D

Interesting scenario with the Hardin-Simmons loss today.  Looking ahead a little bit, IF they run the table, does a 10-0 JHU get the #1 seed in the South?  JHU and Ferrum could be the only 2 undefeated South region teams.  Scary.

Trinity (TX) will go 8-0, so I can see them getting the #1 seed.

They currently have 4th highest QoWi ranking, but that will drop with their final three games being against the three bottom feeders of the SCIAC.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mandfense on October 22, 2005, 09:37:46 PM
Forgot about Trinity.  And Thiel as well.  Oops.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on October 22, 2005, 09:38:44 PM
Oh, and Thiel is still undefeated at 6-0.

If they win next versus Thomas More, they'll likely be 9-0 come seeding time.

But even so, I still see Trinity (TX) getting the #1 seed.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 22, 2005, 09:42:08 PM
I agree.  Based on today's results, and assuming teams that are supposed to win out do, I think the seeds are:

1.  Trinity
2.  Thiel
3.  Hopkins
4.  UMHB
5.  W&J
6.  HSU
7.  Salisbury
8.  Ferrum

That's one big IF, considering today's games, though.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mandfense on October 22, 2005, 09:53:00 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on October 22, 2005, 09:42:08 PM
I agree.  Based on today's results, and assuming teams that are supposed to win out do, I think the seeds are:

1.  Trinity
2.  Thiel
3.  Hopkins
4.  UMHB
5.  W&J
6.  HSU
7.  Salisbury
8.  Ferrum

That's one big IF, considering today's games, though.

I agree with Trinity at #1, but you're forgetting a certain team in those seedings that Kid wouldn't be too happy about.  :)

I think Thiel or W&J get shipped out of the South.  Probably W&J if Thiel stays undefeated since they should keep the undefeated team in region.

Regardless of seedings, I think JHU/Salisbury and Ferrum/Bridgewater 1st round matchups are inevitable and geographically feasible.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 22, 2005, 09:54:24 PM
Thanks for calling me on that, mandfense.  You are right.  I'd put B'water in where W&J is--because I think since the geography is roughly equal, the committee will not ship the conference champ out of region.

Lack of sleep due to poker last night is my only excuse.   :-X

I'd say a HSU trip to Trinity is likely, as well.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on October 22, 2005, 09:57:19 PM
Haha, no harm no foul :)

I could see...

1 - Trinity (TX)
2 - Johns Hopkins
3 - Salisbury
4 - Thiel
5 - Ferrum
6 - Mary Hardin-Baylor
7 - Bridgewater/W&L
8 - Hardin-Simmons

MHB winning will likely send W&J to the East Region.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: gordonmann on October 22, 2005, 10:09:00 PM
W&J could go east, but so could Salisbury/Wesley or JHU.  They are all a reasonable drive to Rowan or Delaware Valley.

If JHU wins out, Salisbury might be the team that gets shipped to the east.

Just out of curiousity, why would you guys put Ferrum #8 if they finish undefeated?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mandfense on October 22, 2005, 10:10:03 PM
How about these matchups?

Hardin-Simmons AT Trinity - Geographically makes sense
Salisbury AT Johns Hopkins - Battle for the best team in Maryland
Bridgewater AT Ferrum - Ditto for Virginia
Mary-Hardin Baylor AT Thiel - 3 Texas teams means 1 is going to have to travel.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 22, 2005, 10:13:06 PM
My seedings were based on my personal assessment of the strength of teams after today's games.  I think that Ferrum is the weakest team in the field, undefeated or not. 

If UMHB's loss weren't to Howard Payne, I'd have rated them #2.   As-is, I think they slide a bit, but still get a home game--which is big considering the ASC conference champ--should HSU win out--probably get shipped to Trinity for a road playoff game in the first round.

And remember, seeding is irrelevant anyway--geography trumps it all.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 22, 2005, 10:23:24 PM
Still quite a few spoiler games left Gentleman. Too early to make a call, as "down the stretch they come"!

10/29
Salisbury at Wesley
BC at W&L
Thomas More at Thiel
ETBU at UMHB
Centre at DePauw

11/5
W&J at Thomas More
Widener at Salisbury
Johns Hopkins at Hampden-Sydney

11/12
Thomas More at Mt St. Joe's
Wabash at DePaul
Rose-Hulman at Centre
CNU at Ferrum

Time to sort it out on the field, then scratch our heads once the selection committee picks the at-larges. :o
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 22, 2005, 10:53:47 PM
2005 has been the year of the opposite outcome.  IN women's basketball, McMurry knocked the Cowgirls out of the playoffs and beat them 2 of 3.  This fall, Hardin-Simmons volleyball swept McMurry this year.  That happens as often as McMurry beats HSU in football.

Next Saturday night at Shotwell Stadium, McM and HSU meet for what should be a very intesting game.  Either HSU is shell shocked or they come out mad.  McMurry can play their best game of the season or they can flop.

This should be fun.  I wish it were on the new turf that McMurry will install on campus in the off-season so we could play the game there, but Shotwell will be a nice facility for the game.  I would love to have 6500-7000 there.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 23, 2005, 01:51:23 AM
I have the title for this week's feature story:

"What would you like with your can of Whoop-Ass?"  :o

Look at what happened in the true South region alone:

Undefeated Wesley gets pounded
Undefeated HSU gets pounded
Undefeated Trinity FINALLY pounds someone
W&L loses
CNU loses
W&J pounds someone helpless, as usual  :D

Outside the south, and those guys in Alliance lose an OAC game for the first time since '99.  Wow.   Road playoff games for Mount Union in my lifetime??  ;)

Somehow I have a feeling my editor will change the title if I submitted a column that way  ;D
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 23, 2005, 02:29:43 AM
Great title, Ron.

The ASC is crazy!

Has the ASC just gotten better this year?  Today, UMHB played like the second half of 2004!  The 2005 HPU loss mimicks the 2004 HSU loss as a motivator.

As an arbitrary power rating, I see the ASC as UMHB at the top at 95, HSU at 90, HPU and ETBU at 83, TLU at 78, McMurry at 75, LC at 70, SRSU at 65, MC at 55 and AC at 40.  McMurry has 4 wins against the bottom 4 and still faces HSU, UMHB and ETBU.  :-\

The ASC needs help from Wabash in the Monon Bell for a Pool C.  Both HSU and UMHB still need to run the table.  Then,  HSU gets the Pool A and UMHB gets the Pool C bid.

Huntingdon had their week off.  (The Thomas More weekend?)  They should defeat SAGU, Westminster and Maryville TN, their last South Region game and GSAC rival.  With the way that Maryville TN acts in basketball in the GSAC, there may be some revenge meted out by the football team if a Pool B bid is on the line.  I still like Huntingdon as the Pool B darkhorse.

Is TU really that strong?  I thought that TU had 2nd game advantage when they played TLU.

Davidson the SRSU QB is very good!  We have several great QB's in the ASC.

My ranking:
1)  Salinas TLU
T2)  Sellers McM and Johnson HPU tied.  (Sellers still has the 3 best teams to play.  His ranking can move from there.)
4) Cooper LC
5) Davidson SRSU
6) Padron and Welch UMHB (Reliable and steady.  They have lots of tools and support.  Just need to keep things running.  Great QB's for such a great system.)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 23, 2005, 08:35:00 AM
Ralph and Ron,  At this point in the season, how would you set up a South bracket?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Toby Taff on October 23, 2005, 09:11:04 AM
Ron,

I love that title. ;D  Just too funny. 

Ralph,
McMurry already suprised me.  I thought their winning was over for the year, but I think they can beat ETBU, and if HSU and MHB can't keep the O down, it sounds like they could make those two barnburners. I guess we'll see.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 23, 2005, 09:14:52 AM
Ron, live dangerously.  Go with the title! :)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Toby Taff on October 23, 2005, 09:25:44 AM
Or change it to:

What would you like with your can of Whoop-***?

So that it passes the editorial test ;)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 23, 2005, 12:27:09 PM
South Region analysis will be up by tomorrow a.m. Will add the NCAA South region's first Top 10 of the year on Wednesday this go round.

And yes it was a wild weekend to say the least! :o
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 23, 2005, 01:16:15 PM
Bill, I like the analyses by Josh and by "kid", but can both UMHB and especially HSU run the table?

Someone flies into Belton and HSU goes to Trinity as #1 seed.  I would like to see Huntingdon come to UMHB, but that is wishful thinking....Southern style smash mouth football!  But to play TU again if they won?!?

I just hope we go far in the playoffs!

Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 23, 2005, 03:07:55 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 23, 2005, 02:29:43 AM
Has the ASC just gotten better this year?  Today, UMHB played like the second half of 2004!  The 2005 HPU loss mimicks the 2004 HSU loss as a motivator.

I think that, while the conference may be getting stronger, that the gap between the haves and have-nots is narrowing (except poor AC).  The QB transfers have really helped both McM and HPU, too.

Quote
The ASC needs help from Wabash in the Monon Bell for a Pool C.  Both HSU and UMHB still need to run the table.  Then,  HSU gets the Pool A and UMHB gets the Pool C bid.

IMO the ASC gets the second bid regardless of what DPU and Wabash do.  DPU's chances took a hit when Wesley got thrashed.  They may get in still, but I think if you look at UMHB and DPU you would have to rank UMHB above the Indiana Tigers.
QuoteHuntingdon had their week off.  (The Thomas More weekend?)  They should defeat SAGU, Westminster and Maryville TN, their last South Region game and GSAC rival.  With the way that Maryville TN acts in basketball in the GSAC, there may be some revenge meted out by the football team if a Pool B bid is on the line.  I still like Huntingdon as the Pool B darkhorse.
I'm thinking they still need a little help.  With three weeks to go, they could get it.  At the same time, the NCAA might elect not to reward a team that only played 8 D3 teams on their schedule, which would be a shame. 
QuoteIs TU really that strong?  I thought that TU had 2nd game advantage when they played TLU.
Trinity is learning to play power football, and the defense is getting stronger.  They're up against a good Rhodes defensive unit on the road this weekend, let's see how they fare on the road, always a challenge.  That said, TU did manage to pull one out at Redlands, and Redlands gave #7 Oxy all they wanted, too. 
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 23, 2005, 04:24:27 PM
Ron, there are so many great QB's in Texas!  The Brett Elliott-Adam Johnson-Ty Sellers model for transferring when you are not getting the playing time or the enjoyment ought to help the ASC.

We play fun-football down here.  If the equalization by the QB's is key, then high school players should realize that the ASC is a great place to play football.

Would the NCAA cut Huntingdon some slack since they lost a South Region game when Thomas More moved to the Pres AC?  (Yeah, the Millsaps Hurricane Katrina game-rescheduling filled that slot, but they wuz robbed!)  Having LaGrange and having an odd-numbered ASC next year should help Huntingdon fill their schedule.  They can get Maryville, LaGrange, twice if needed, maybe 1-3 ODAC, 2-4 ASC and maybe 4-5 SCAC teams!  Wesminster MO likes to play games after the UMAC Bowl Day which occurs during week #9.  They are North Region, but a D3 opponent nevertheless.  Independent Colorado College also needs games too.

Oh, and Ron, the AC issue is 3 games away from being an SCAC issue! ;)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: pottsy on October 23, 2005, 08:06:46 PM
Ralph,  who do you think would be the #1 seed in the South?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 23, 2005, 08:41:34 PM
Week #8 Comparison

* ranking will be based on current QOWI w/in each loss column
@ - indicates teams eligible for Pool B bids

AFCA Top 25 will be updated Tuesday & NCAA South Regional Top 10 will be updated when released on Wednesday.


"0" D-III LOSS TEAMS  with (overall w/l) (regional w/l) QOWI

1.  TRINITY                  (6-0) (5-0)     12.40      D3 #9     AFCA #
2.  THIEL @                  (7-0) (7-0)     11.43      D3 #18   AFCA #  
3.  JOHNS HOPKINS        (7-0) (6-0)     11.17                   AFCA #                  
4.  FERRUM                   (7-0) (6-0)     10.33

"1" D-III LOSS TEAMS

1.   SALISBURY @            (6-1) (2-0)   13.50      D3 #17  
2.   WESLEY @                (7-1) (4-0)   12.50
3.   HARDIN-SIMMONS      (6-1) (5-1)   10.33      D3 #10    AFCA #        
4.   UMHB                       (5-1) (4-1)   10.00      D3# 5     AFCA #
5.   BRIDGEWATER           (5-1) (4-1)     9.00      D3 #20    AFCA #
     HUNTINGDON @        (5-1) (4-1)      9.00
7.   WASH & JEFF @         (7-1) (5-1)     8.83     D3 # 15   AFCA #
8.   DEPAUW                   (5-1) (4-1)     8.60



"2" D-III LOSS TEAMS

1.   HOWARD PAYNE        (4-3) (4-2)      9.83
2.   WASH & LEE              (5-2) (4-2)     9.00
3.   ETBU                       (4-3) (4-2)      8.83
4.   HAMPDEN SYDNEY       (5-2) (5-2)     8.71
5.   METHODIST                (5-2) (5-2)    8.43
6.   CENTRE                    (6-2) (4-2)      8.17
7.   THOMAS MORE @        (5-2) (5-2)     7.86
8.   MCMURRY                  (5-2) (4-2)     7.83
9.   CNU                          (4-3) (3-2)     7.60

* ETBU has 2 in region losses and 1 loss to a D-II team, thus in the NCAA's eyes, a (4-2) D-III record.

*CNU & HPU have 2 in region losses & stay on the board even with 3 total DIII losses.

* Once a team has more than 2 losses in region they will drop from consideration as the season progresses. Note: Pool A (automatic qualifiers) will throw "a wrench" into the number of spots available in the South Region. Total spots available in the DIII Playoff Field = 32.


South Region (Pool A) Berths (Conference Champions w/ Auto-bids)

American Southwest Conference -
Centennial Conference -
Old Dominion Athletic Conference -
Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference -
USA South Athletic Conference -

* conference champions to be updated once official  
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 23, 2005, 08:46:27 PM
Right now, I think that Trinity has the criteria.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 23, 2005, 08:58:10 PM
A few thoughts as we go into the Week 8 Comparison:

1. McDaniel & Rose-Hulman fall out of consideration with losses this weekend.
2. HSU & Wesley dropped from the unbeatens.

It looks as though there are 12 teams really left in contention with Pool C looking very tight this year. The 2 loss in region team are, "in my opinion", punching their ticket to the playoffs, as a spectator, unless alot of 1 loss teams lose and that is nationwide not just in the South region.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 23, 2005, 08:58:59 PM
Thanks for the update!  I will post my best guess.   ;)

The criteria do not give a priority among the Primary Criteria.  IMHO, it is awfully hard to tell a team that wins all of its game that they did not do enough. I will rank on losses,  then QOWI, then other critiera.  I am assuming that all teams win out!

"0" D-III LOSS TEAMS  with (overall w/l) (regional w/l) QOWI

1.  TRINITY          "A"   SCAC        (6-0) (5-0)     12.40      D3 #9     AFCA #
2.  THIEL @          "B"  Pres AC    (7-0) (7-0)     11.43      D3 #18   AFCA #  
3.  JOHNS HOPKINS  "A"  CC      (7-0) (6-0)     11.17                 AFCA     #          
4.  FERRUM          "A"   USAC       (7-0) (6-0)     10.33

"1" D-III LOSS TEAMS

5.   SALISBURY @     "B"   ACFC     (6-1) (2-0)   13.50   D3 #17  Wesley on Oct 29
6.   WESLEY @          "B"   ACFC     (7-1) (4-0)   12.50
7.   HARDIN-SIMMONS  "A"  ASC    (6-1) (5-1)   10.33      D3 #10    AFCA #        
8.   UMHB                  "C"    ASC     (5-1) (4-1)   10.00      D3# 5     AFCA #
9.   BRIDGEWATER     "A"   ODAC    (5-1) (4-1)     9.00      D3 #20    AFCA #
     HUNTINGDON @  "B"    Indep     (5-1) (4-1)      9.0011.  
11.  WASH & JEFF    "B"  Pres AC    (7-1) (5-1)     8.83     D3 # 15   AFCA #
12.  DEPAUW              "C"  SCAC     (5-1) (4-1)     8.60
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: pottsy on October 23, 2005, 09:12:15 PM
Ralph, Is it possible that UMHB would be ranked higher than HSU?  If not, would they then play Trinity?  Assuming they all win out.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 23, 2005, 09:26:40 PM
Pottsy, as I read the Handbook, no.

http://www.ncaa.org/library/handbooks/football/2005/2005_d3_football_handbook.pdf

Trinity has done everything that the Selection committee wants it to do.  I am very reluctant to assume that the committee will do otherwise.  If we find out otherwise, then okay.

Once again, polls have no role in the Selection process.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: pottsy on October 23, 2005, 09:31:02 PM
Ralph, so would UMHB go to Trinity first round.  Or could they go back to HSU?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 23, 2005, 09:32:31 PM
Looks good Ralph!

Here is my best guess if everyone wins out. (A Big If.)

Pool A: SCAC champ = Trinity
Pool B: PAC champ = Thiel
Pool A: CC champ = Johns Hopkins
Pool A: USAC champ = Ferrum
Pool B: ACFC champ = Salisbury or Wesley
Pool A: ASC champ = Hardin-Simmons
Pool A: ODAC champ = Bridgewater
Pool B: PAC runner-up = Washington & Jefferson
Pool C: ASC runner-up = UMHB

In this senario, 9 teams come out of the South. W&J is moved to the East Region.
Seeding would go as follows:
#1 Trinity
#2 Thiel
#3 Johns Hopkins
#4 Ferrum
#5 Salisbury / Wesley
#6 Hardin-Simmons
#7 UMHB
#8 Bridgewater

First Rd match-ups:
HSU at Trinity
Salisbury/Wesley at Thiel
Ferrum at Johns Hopkins
Bridgewater at UMHB

The key is who gets shipped East and who else might get in via Pool C if more than 9 South region teams get in? Next in line for a Pool C would be Salisbury/Wesley loser, Huntingdon, and DePauw.

It will probably take a couple of more weeks to sort this all out! :o
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Hug on October 23, 2005, 09:33:45 PM
Llama,

That's unacceptible.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: pottsy on October 23, 2005, 09:34:28 PM
Llamaguy,  Do you see a "Texas sub regional"?  If so, how do you think it sets up?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 23, 2005, 09:39:26 PM
You could also send Bridgewater to Thiel and have UMHB go to Johns Hopkins as well.
It will be a commitee call as a flight will be needed either way. ;)

Pottsy,
Yes if the above doesn't happen.

HSU vs Trinity
UMHB vs BC

Then hopefully for the NCAA, UMHB wins and plays the winner of HSU/Trinity.
The first option would also work if UMHB beat Johns Hopkins and came home to play the HSU/Trinity winner.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Toby Taff on October 23, 2005, 09:43:40 PM
So the ASC potentially gets two shots at Trinity?  That would give the Tigers heartburn!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 23, 2005, 10:10:50 PM
After what happened 2 years ago, I really don't care who UMHB plays, as long as they are playing.  Is it possible they could go to Thiel for a 1st round game?  Does it look like Thiel will finish undefeated?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: religion_major on October 23, 2005, 10:13:06 PM
Llama,
If CNU should beat Ferrum what would that do to the South region picture?  I know there would be a three way tie in the USA South, but how would you see that effecting the seeding?

Bill,
My thought would be UMHB to Thiel assuming they beat Thomas Moore.  It would be a flight either way so I just don't see the NCAA rewarding a number six seed by flying a team down from VA so that HSU could have a home game.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 23, 2005, 10:16:11 PM
llamaguy, should UMHB and HSU win out, who will be the higher seed?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Jeremybozz on October 23, 2005, 10:20:09 PM
   My guess is that BC and Ferrum would play in the 1st round if both win out.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Jeremybozz on October 23, 2005, 10:21:29 PM
BC could travel to Johns Hopkins. Great offense vs great JHU d.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 23, 2005, 10:24:43 PM
Rule #1  Geographical proximity.
Rule #2  See rule #1.

Somehow, we get a Texas sub-bracket and someone flies to Texas.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Hug on October 23, 2005, 10:24:58 PM
We won't know diddly until CNU plays Ferrum. If Ferrum wins, they stay home for a first round game. If CNU wins, I believe the coin flip winner will travel to Texas.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: religion_major on October 23, 2005, 10:33:01 PM
Hug,
A CNU victory at Ferrum would cause a three way tie in the USA South.  Ferrum has beaten Methodist who has beaten CNU.   ;D
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 23, 2005, 10:36:09 PM
When is the CNU-Ferrum game?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 23, 2005, 10:36:47 PM
Quote from: Hug on October 23, 2005, 10:24:58 PM
We won't know diddly until CNU plays Ferrum. If Ferrum wins, they stay home for a first round game. If CNU wins, I believe the coin flip winner will travel to Texas.

Thoughts?

I agree with you 100% Hug. A Johns Hopkins loss to Hampden Sydney and a Salisbury loss to Wesley certainly wouldn't hurt Bridgewater's cause to stay in the Northern half of the South Region Playoff bracket.

True RM;however, should CNU win the coin toss then CNU is Pool A with a qowi=7.60. Not to mention they are closer geographically to Texas. ;)

CNU at Ferrum Nov.12th
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 24, 2005, 09:04:21 AM
When do the regional rankings come out?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: historymajor on October 24, 2005, 09:56:37 AM
This week, I think...
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 24, 2005, 11:21:19 AM
Quote from: historymajor on October 24, 2005, 09:56:37 AM
This week, I think...

Wednesday. They will be listed on the Comparison chart once out.

For those of you who haven't found it, the West region has a similar chart posted. Looks like they have 15 or so 1 and zero loss teams left and Whitworth may be a strong B/C as well. Looks like 2 regional losses has you sitting home for sure if you don't get a Pool A this year.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 24, 2005, 02:02:15 PM
Llamaguy, it was your outline that was adopted by the West Region in conjunction with the NCAA's emphasis on identification and adoption of "Best Practices".

I hope that the President of the President's Council of D-III, the Bridgewater College President Phillip C Stone, is impressed with your demonstartion of your BC education! ;)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 24, 2005, 02:20:19 PM
Yeah Ralph, Dr. Stone is good For Bridgewater, but even better for Division III athletics. He is a great guy with a definite handle on the DIII values and experience. ;)

As for the format, next week I will probably begin tweaking it with your suggestion of using Primary critria, big wins, etc. I believe unless alot of 1 loss teams lose this week, the 2 loss bracket will fall by the wayside.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Hug on October 24, 2005, 03:21:57 PM
#6 Salisbury @ #2 Theil
#7 BC @ #3 UJH

#8 UMHB @ #1 Trinity
#5 Hardin Simmons @ #4 Ferrum or #5 CNU/Meth @ #4 Hardin Simmons
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 24, 2005, 03:33:15 PM
Llamaguy, I would only keep the 2 loss teams if there is a mathematical chance for a Pool A bid. :)

We can go thru the conferences and figure that.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: religion_major on October 24, 2005, 04:11:03 PM
Hug,
You have gotta be kidding me if you see CNU or Methodist as a #5 seed above BC and/or UMHB.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 24, 2005, 04:25:00 PM
religion_major,

How do you see the teams being rated.  Hope UMHB is not an 8, but I would take that over not being in.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: religion_major on October 24, 2005, 04:42:33 PM
Bill,
I think #1-4 would have to go to the undefeated teams.  I would rate Trinity at #1 followed by Thiel and JHU at #2 and #3.  I could see the seed going either way.  Assuming that Ferrum wins the USA South and finishes 10-0, they are the #4 seed.  If CNU or Methodist wins the USA South they finish as the #8 seed.  I would rate UMHB at #5 dispite HSU getting the AQ by virtue of UMHB beating HSU.  I would put HSU above Salisbury leaving BC as the #8 seed.  Again if a three way tie comes in the USA South I would put the USA South AQ as #8. 

All of this assumes that W&J gets the fourth pool b slot and is shipped east.  That being said, if HC gets in via pool c they are number 8 in the South and Salisbury probably also goes east.

#6 HSU at #1 Trinity
#5 UMHB at # 4 Ferrum

#8 BC at # 2 Thiel
#7 Salisbury at # 3 JHU

We could see several early round upsets in this senerio: HSU vs. Trinity is a toss up, UMHB should beat Ferrum, and BC over Thiel is a possibility (playoff experiance plus a good playoff record, 2-1, over PAC teams).  It should be a very interesting South Region Playoff picture.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: narch on October 24, 2005, 05:20:38 PM
rm - i know ferrum is undefeated, but even IF they win out, i don't see salisbury being seeded below fc - if the gulls win out they will have beaten wesley (currently 7-1), widener (currently 5-2), and frostburg (currently 4-3) in addition to methodist (currently 5-2) and cnu (currently 4-3) - ferrum doesn't have the same number of quality wins - i think ferrum is a 6 seed, at best, if they win out - i agree that if mc or cnu win the usasac aq, they'll be an 8 seed - the way the ncaa does things, though, your match-ups could be spot on, despite the seedings being off
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 24, 2005, 05:35:20 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 24, 2005, 03:33:15 PM
Llamaguy, I would only keep the 2 loss teams if there is a mathematical chance for a Pool A bid. :)

We can go thru the conferences and figure that.

I'll do that for Week #9. Thanks for the suggestion. ;)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 24, 2005, 05:36:42 PM
IMHO, As geographically dispersed as this area is, it makes more sense to seed these teams by these criteria.

1) Who gets HFA for 3 weeks?  Which team is the best in the region?

2) Who deserves HFA for 2 weeks?  Second best team? Or geographcially isolated and needs to host a (Texas) sub-bracket?

3) Who deserves to host a playoff game?  Which 4 teams?  Geography considered!

Remember the 2002 season!  South Region #3 seed and overall #5 ranked UMHB went to South Region #2 seed and overall #4 ranked (Stagg finalist) Trinity in the first round!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 24, 2005, 05:51:06 PM
Ralph,  At this point in the season, who would you give the #1 seed?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: religion_major on October 24, 2005, 07:42:20 PM
Quote from: narch on October 24, 2005, 05:20:38 PM
rm - i know ferrum is undefeated, but even IF they win out, i don't see salisbury being seeded below fc - if the gulls win out they will have beaten wesley (currently 7-1), widener (currently 5-2), and frostburg (currently 4-3) in addition to methodist (currently 5-2) and cnu (currently 4-3) - ferrum doesn't have the same number of quality wins - i think ferrum is a 6 seed, at best, if they win out - i agree that if mc or cnu win the usasac aq, they'll be an 8 seed - the way the ncaa does things, though, your match-ups could be spot on, despite the seedings being off

Narch,
Would you then just flip the home team for a Ferrum/UMHB game or send the #8 seed to Texas?  Either way, one team is going to have to fly.  The main question is whether a Texas team flies North or a low seed flies to Texas.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: historymajor on October 24, 2005, 09:41:42 PM
R_M.... IF TU wins out (and I'm a TU guy) .... do you really think that TU will be #1 seed in the South????  It seems to me that we need to see the regional rankings b/4 we pronounce TU #1....  or do you know something I don't?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: religion_major on October 24, 2005, 09:58:15 PM
That may also depend on the fate of W&J.  If W&J wins the fourth pool B slot it becomes a toss up between Thiel and Trinity.  Not that it is listed in the criteria but I don't see the NCAA giving the #1 seed to a team that has not made the playoffs since expansion when a perenial playoff team that the committee members may just feel more comforitable with.  I really think that of the undefeated teams in the South region only Thiel and Trinity would have the SOS and/or win over a playoff team to get a #1 seed.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Hug on October 24, 2005, 10:10:41 PM
Salisbury may have a win against a playoff team (CNU/Meth)

Trinity will not
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: narch on October 24, 2005, 10:12:28 PM
rm - i'd put the monarchs in as the 8 seed and i don't care where they play :)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: religion_major on October 24, 2005, 10:13:40 PM
Narch,
I would say that Methodist or CNU would be an 8 seed if either of them were to make it to the dance.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 24, 2005, 10:13:52 PM
Here is a refresher on what the criteria is:

Primary Criteria (not in priority order)

Win-loss percentage against regional opponents
Quality-of-wins index- only contests versus regional competition
In-region head-to-head competition
In-region results vs. common regional opponents
In-region results vs. regionally ranked teams(ranked at the time of the ranking/selection process)
Conference postseason contest(s) is included

Secondary Criteria

Out-of region head-to-head competition
Overall Division III won-loss percentage
Results vs. common non-DIII opponents
Results vs. Division III teams ranked in other regions
Overall win-loss percentage
Results vs. common out-of-region opponents
Overall Division III strength of schedule


Now in my eyes, Trinity = #1

Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: narch on October 24, 2005, 10:32:01 PM
rm - i agree on cnu (and probably mc, too), and i admit you bc fans have MUCH more experience than i do, but IF mc wins out, fc loses to cnu, mc wins the coin flip to get the aq and ssu wins out (did you follow all of those ifs :)), the monarchs 2 losses will be to 9-1 teams - additionally, the monarch opponents to date have a 24-23 record (vs. bc's opp record of 15-28)...nah, it's all a dream - IF the monarchs get in they're an 8 seed...nevermind  ;)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 24, 2005, 10:37:59 PM
History Major, I think that TU is a comfortable  #2 seed now, and quite accurately, the Top seed in the "Texas" sub-bracket.  I think that Thiel has the inside track on the #1.  They will have a win against another playoff team, W&J.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 25, 2005, 10:10:26 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 24, 2005, 10:37:59 PM
History Major, I think that TU is a comfortable  #2 seed now, and quite accurately, the Top seed in the "Texas" sub-bracket.  I think that Thiel has the inside track on the #1.  They will have a win against another playoff team, W&J.

And should Huntingdon get in (they need a little help, but not that much), so would Trinity. 
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: pakownr97 on October 25, 2005, 10:50:47 AM
I'm not sure W & J is in...yet.

If not, Thiel does NOT have a win against a playoff team, either.

Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 25, 2005, 11:45:14 AM
AFCA poll is out.

6. Trinity
7. UMHB
[9. MUC]
12. HSU
15. BC
17. W&J
20. Thiel
25. Ferrum
(26) Salisbury
(33) Wesley
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: badbadman on October 25, 2005, 11:46:33 AM
Ron,

JHU is AFCA #16
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 25, 2005, 12:10:04 PM
Thanks, I always forget they are "South"  ;D
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 25, 2005, 12:29:22 PM
Week #8 Comparison

* ranking will be based on current QOWI w/in each loss column
@ - indicates teams eligible for Pool B bids

NCAA South Regional Top 10 will be updated when released on Wednesday.

"0" D-III LOSS TEAMS  with (overall w/l) (regional w/l) QOWI

1.  TRINITY                  (6-0) (5-0)     12.40      D3 #9       AFCA #6
2.  THIEL @                  (7-0) (7-0)     11.43      D3 #18     AFCA #20
3.  JOHNS HOPKINS        (7-0) (6-0)     11.17                    AFCA #16                 
4.  FERRUM                   (7-0) (6-0)     10.33                    AFCA#25

"1" D-III LOSS TEAMS

1.   SALISBURY @            (6-1) (2-0)   13.50      D3 #17 
2.   WESLEY @                (7-1) (4-0)   12.50
3.   HARDIN-SIMMONS      (6-1) (5-1)   10.33      D3 #10    AFCA #12       
4.   UMHB                       (5-1) (4-1)   10.00      D3# 5     AFCA #7
5.   BRIDGEWATER           (5-1) (4-1)     9.00      D3 #20    AFCA #15
      HUNTINGDON @        (5-1) (4-1)      9.00
7.   WASH & JEFF @         (7-1) (5-1)     8.83     D3 # 15   AFCA #17
8.   DEPAUW                   (5-1) (4-1)     8.60



"2" D-III LOSS TEAMS

1.   HOWARD PAYNE        (4-3) (4-2)      9.83
2.   WASH & LEE              (5-2) (4-2)     9.00
3.   ETBU                       (4-3) (4-2)      8.83
4.   HAMPDEN SYDNEY       (5-2) (5-2)     8.71
5.   METHODIST                (5-2) (5-2)    8.43
6.   CENTRE                    (6-2) (4-2)      8.17
7.   THOMAS MORE @        (5-2) (5-2)     7.86
8.   MCMURRY                  (5-2) (4-2)     7.83
9.   CNU                          (4-3) (3-2)     7.60

* ETBU has 2 in region losses and 1 loss to a D-II team, thus in the NCAA's eyes, a (4-2) D-III record.

*CNU & HPU have 2 in region losses & stay on the board even with 3 total DIII losses.


* Once a team has more than 2 losses in region they will drop from consideration as the season progresses. Note: Pool A (automatic qualifiers) will throw "a wrench" into the number of spots available in the South Region. Total spots available in the DIII Playoff Field = 32.


South Region (Pool A) Berths (Conference Champions w/ Auto-bids)

American Southwest Conference -
Centennial Conference -
Old Dominion Athletic Conference -
Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference -
USA South Athletic Conference -

* conference champions to be updated once official  



Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 25, 2005, 01:28:49 PM
Llamaguy, we may be able to cut that list in half after Saturday!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 25, 2005, 02:44:23 PM
Right on, Ralph!

Six games THIS WEEK matching teams from llamaguy's lists above:

Thomas More at Thiel
Salisbury at Wesley
Hardin-Simmons at McMurry
E.Texas Baptist at Mary Hardin Baylor
Bridgewater at Washington & Lee
Centre at DePauw


November 5th has three more:

Johns Hopkins at Hampden-Sydney
McMurry at Mary Hardin Baylor
Wash & Jeff at Thomas More


And two more on November 12th:
Christopher Newport at Ferrum
E.Texas Baptist at McMurry


Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: religion_major on October 25, 2005, 04:03:33 PM
By the primary criteria Huntingdon should have a slight edge on W&J due to better SOS when the regional rankings come out.  I think if Huntingdon gets in then Salisbury goes to the east region.  Huntingdon would then get to visit the closer of the two ASC teams (UMHB or HSU), with the other team going to Trinity.  That would leave BC visiting Thiel and Ferrum going to JHU.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 25, 2005, 04:45:29 PM
Religion major,

By your suggestions, I understand that you have Linfield as Pool B #1 of course, Thiel as Pool B #2, Salisbury as Pool B #3 (assuming they defeat Wesley this week), Huntingdon as Pool B #4 and then W&J falling to somewhere in Pool C.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: cnu85 on October 25, 2005, 04:52:10 PM
Good work llama.....now I need Motrin!!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: religion_major on October 25, 2005, 05:00:01 PM
Yes I do.  I was simply looking at the primary criteria of which quality win index is one of the primary criteria.  Both have one in region loss to a possible #1 seed, so I was throwing out the idea that Huntingdon might get in ahead of W&J.  The NCAA says that history is not a criteria in selection so I believe that either stands a decent shot at that fourth pool c.  I think W&J's quality win index will improve after the Thomas More game.  Of course if W&J looses to Thomas More, they are done with two regional losses.  It all depends on the Thomas More game, I was simply pointing out the ramifictions of a bid for Huntingdon.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 25, 2005, 05:02:15 PM
major,

If Huntingdon & W&J win out, won't the Presidents have a better In-Region record, off-setting a slightly lower QOWI index?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 25, 2005, 05:26:38 PM
Bob.Gregg,  What is your take on the list from Llamaguy's list?  Things could get a lot clearer, or there could be a huge mess!  I love this time of year! :)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: religion_major on October 25, 2005, 05:27:47 PM
I believe that W&J would take both quality win index and regional record if they beat Thomas More.  I think it is a toss up at this point as to who should go and who should stay home.  Pool C is also a possibility that the team left out of pool b will get in.  I cannot make my final projection until I see the final criteria.  I was just looking at the chart Llamaguy put together and was wondering how far Wesley's QOWI would drop with a loss to Salisbury?  The loser of that game also figures into this fourth pool b discussion.  I was just attepting to show how the bracket would be effected should Hundington get that pool b bid.  I think if W&J makes the playoff they will go to the east region.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 25, 2005, 05:50:53 PM
Quote from: religion_major on October 25, 2005, 05:27:47 PM
I believe that W&J would take both quality win index and regional record if they beat Thomas More.  I think it is a toss up at this point as to who should go and who should stay home.  Pool C is also a possibility that the team left out of pool b will get in.  I cannot make my final projection until I see the final criteria.  I was just looking at the chart Llamaguy put together and was wondering how far Wesley's QOWI would drop with a loss to Salisbury?  The loser of that game also figures into this fourth pool b discussion.  I was just attepting to show how the bracket would be effected should Hundington get that pool b bid.  I think if W&J makes the playoff they will go to the east region.

How right you are! The best Huntingdon can do is qowi=9.57, if W&J wins out qowi=9.62. W&J = 1 loss to an undefeated Thiel team, Huntingdon = 1 loss to an undefeated Trinity team. How is that for close? I agree if Wesley loses this weekend they are out. But don't dicount Whitworth in the west. Currently their only loss is to Linfield. That leaves Pool B = Thiel,Salisbury,Whitworth, W&J, Huntingdon, and Wesley. Pool C may get a visit from some Pool B teams for sure this year. ;)

Wesley's qowi would drop to the mid 11's with a loss to Salisbury.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 25, 2005, 06:10:29 PM
If someone has a more difficult run to get to the playoffs than McMurry, it is Thomas More.

What I want is for Thomas More to defeat both Thiel and especially W&J to knock them both down a notch, and then lose to Mount St Joseph, which is likely to get the Pool A bid from the HCAC.

We ASC fans need there to be no Pool B's falling to Pool C, if we want 2 playoff teams.  I think that 2 (in-region) losses is an "eliminating factor" for Pool C this year.

Right now, we have to worry about Linfield, Thiel, Salisbury (not "or" but)  and Wesley, W&J, Whitworth and Huntingdon.  Those last 4 are competing for "OUR" Pool C bids. >:(        :D

Of course, McMurry's running the table would knock out both UMHB and HSU from Pool C.  If that is the sacrifice that the conference must make for McMurry to win, then so be it. ;D
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 25, 2005, 06:13:49 PM
Ralph,  If HSU and UMHB don't lose another game, don't you think they will both get in the playoffs?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 25, 2005, 06:14:52 PM
Ralph, I'm a McMurry fan this week!  Just for you! :)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 25, 2005, 06:24:25 PM
Bill, I think that the hard floor in Pool C this year is only one in-region loss, but I don't know how the committee will evaluate in-region.

Now HSU and UMHB are probably legitmately Top 10 teams, but most mature, sane ASC fans think that we are a Top 5 conference and that the HPU win over UMHB was no upset!

If we are knocking ourselves out of the playoffs, like the WIAC fans boast that they do, then ouch!

But there are enough other programs that are vastly superior to their conference competition that they make the playoff cut, and then get eliminated in the first round.  Also, we don't have a real weak sister conference that allows us to boost our QOWI's as the Midwest Conference and IBFC do for the CCIW and the WIAC, or the MIAA or HCAC or NCAC even  the middle third of the Pres AC does for the OAC.

The Austin College move might help, but  we need a beatable  independent UDallas and beatable indepedent D-3 SAGU.  Plus we must beat Millsaps and Rhodes when we play them. If LC ends up 4-5, then a win over Rhodes would have turned them into 5-4 team which is better in the QOWI.

The real advantage comes when you can defeat a .500 or better school from a weaker conference.  Then we could really boost our QOWI.

Wordy, but one loss HSU does as the AQ and UMHB will barely gets the Pool C bid.

Oh could you loan McMurry some of those UMHB linemen!  (IMHO, I believe that is UMHB's real strength...their hogs!) :)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 25, 2005, 06:26:59 PM
Ralph,  I agree that one in region loss is it.  It would be  unbelieveable if HSU and UMHB have one loss and one of them wouldn't make it.  If they both get by this weekend, I think they run the table.  I'm still a McMurry fan this week!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 25, 2005, 06:37:26 PM
Board Question,

Does anyone believe that South Region Teams that are Geographically North such as John Hopkins, Thiel, and WJ are not as good as their records show, and should be second guessed upon being placed high or at all in the playoffs??  Would a southern team deserve a playoff spot over any of these teams due to their SOS as of right now???
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 25, 2005, 07:01:16 PM
Cleveland, I think that the issue is geography.

Trinity hosting HSU and someone flying into UMHB is one sub-bracket.  The second round game would probably be a bus ticket in Texas.

I think that is the more significant factor working here.

I believe that filling a Rowan/East Region bracket with 8  geographically proximal schools is what is affecting your conference.  (Rule #1 Geographic Proximity takes precedence.  Rule #2 See Rule #1!    ;))

Remember that John Carroll, the OAC runner-up and a Pool C, ran the East Region table in 2002.  They were 12-2 that year,  0-2 vs. Mount Union, 12-0 vs. the rest of D3! :)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 25, 2005, 08:35:23 PM
Ralph, In this scenario, who hosts the 2nd round game if HSU and UMHB win?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 25, 2005, 11:14:05 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on October 25, 2005, 08:35:23 PM
Ralph, In this scenario, who hosts the 2nd round game if HSU and UMHB win?

The team seeded above the other  ;D  See tomorrow's regional rankings for a clue ...
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 25, 2005, 11:58:12 PM
Once again, Bonzo, great ATR article!

I am glad that Pat has seen fit to give us our own writer.

With AC moving to the SCAC, I foresee more SCAC-ASC games.  Lots of mid-season open dates!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mandfense on October 26, 2005, 03:36:18 AM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on October 25, 2005, 06:37:26 PM
Board Question,

Does anyone believe that South Region Teams that are Geographically North such as John Hopkins, Thiel, and WJ are not as good as their records show, and should be second guessed upon being placed high or at all in the playoffs?? Would a southern team deserve a playoff spot over any of these teams due to their SOS as of right now???

Well, JHU will likely get the automatic bid.  Whether or not they deserve is irrevalvent because they won their conference.

As far Theil and W&J go, they are Pool B teams and in my opinion, deserve a bid over any other South region at large team with the exception of HSU/UMHB.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: PittTBCW on October 26, 2005, 08:40:36 AM
what time do the rankings come out???
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 26, 2005, 08:48:37 AM
Ron, Nice article on the South.  Should have gone with your original title! :)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 26, 2005, 09:12:20 AM
I did.   ;D   Editors!   ;)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 26, 2005, 09:18:15 AM
Well, we all know what you meant.  Keep it up.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 26, 2005, 09:42:48 AM
I belive the rankings come out in the afternoon, but I could be wrong......Anyone know for sure??
Title: Brett Elliott for Heisman
Post by: pakownr97 on October 26, 2005, 10:17:03 AM
I hope everyone sees the blurb on D3football.com's home page where you can link to the online Heisman voting.  Ron Boerger helped get Linfield's QB, a D3 guy, on the ballot.  Let's do what we can to stuff this baby.

Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 26, 2005, 10:39:04 AM
Kudos to Ron.  That is awesome getting Elliot on the ballot.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mizzou_mafia on October 26, 2005, 02:43:25 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on October 26, 2005, 09:42:48 AM
I belive the rankings come out in the afternoon, but I could be wrong......Anyone know for sure??

Cleveland,
I've been checking the ncaa page several times today and nothing new yet. 
http://www.ncaasports.com/football/mens/polls/polls/diviii

I'm sure you'll find a link from d3football.com's homepage the hour they come out too.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 26, 2005, 02:46:47 PM
I just cast my vote for Elliot.  Hope everyone else does the same.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: PittTBCW on October 27, 2005, 08:37:17 AM
Are regional rankings out yet???
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 27, 2005, 08:38:28 AM
I just checked the NCAA site and it was still last Novembers.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 27, 2005, 08:45:53 AM
Pitt easy with the rankings they will come out.  Don't you have a job to do instead of being on here all day!!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: PittTBCW on October 27, 2005, 10:13:00 AM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on October 27, 2005, 08:45:53 AM
Pitt easy with the rankings they will come out.  Don't you have a job to do instead of being on here all day!!


Just one of the "Pro's" to being a student teacher!!!

Trying to take the bull by its horns!!!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on October 27, 2005, 11:30:34 AM
Wouldn't plan on the DIII regional rankings (http://www.ncaasports.com/football/mens/polls/polls/diviii) coming out any time soon.

They still haven't updated the DII ones (http://www.ncaasports.com/football/mens/polls/polls/divii) from last week or the BCS rankings (http://www.ncaasports.com/football/mens/polls/bcs).

Someone go wake that NCAA intern up!  >:(
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 27, 2005, 01:07:00 PM
They are updated!!!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: TXCowboy on October 27, 2005, 01:08:00 PM
if both HSU and UMHB win out will UMHB get another pool C bid?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 27, 2005, 01:13:01 PM
So if the playoffs started today these are the official rankings of who would vs who for the first round of the playoffs?????
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 27, 2005, 01:18:43 PM
TX Cowboy, I think so.

In Pool B, it is looking good for Linfield and Thiel.

Look how far Salisbury, W&J and Wesley are down the South rankings and Whitworth in the West!  They are in danger of not making Pool B.

Huntingdon is off the radar screen! :(

I will run a Pool C list later!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mizzou_mafia on October 27, 2005, 01:18:51 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on October 27, 2005, 01:13:01 PM
So if the playoffs started today these are the official rankings of who would vs who for the first round of the playoffs?????

Not exactly.. but it is a pretty good indicator of who would get seeded what.  There will likely be some teams shipped to other regions, and some teams will have to face each other in the first round because of geography, rather than seeding (Tex teams).  
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mizzou_mafia on October 27, 2005, 01:28:50 PM
Yes, this is about the North Region on a South region playoff thread, but I find it interesting that Mount Union, if the seedings hold, could be faced with THREE road playoff games on the way to the Stagg Bowl.  That's something new for a team that usually only has to fire up the bus to drive to VA come Nov/Dec.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 27, 2005, 01:31:31 PM
Ralph,

How is it Linfield and Thiel look good for the Pool B bids??? I am not doubting you I would just like to know how and why i guess??? lol
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: gordonmann on October 27, 2005, 01:35:22 PM
Cleveland:

I concur with Ralph on Pool B.  Of the six Pool B teams only 2 are ranked higher than eighth, Linfield and Thiel.   This is just a snapshot, but it doesn't look good for a fifth Pool B squad to make the playoffs.

Since Ralph contributes so much to these boards, here's my return gift to him (and you). :)

Pool C Contenders (15 total):

3s - Mary Hardin-Baylor (South)

4s - Union (East), Mount Union (North)

5s - Augustana (North), St. Olaf (West)

6s - Ithaca (East - Alfred is ranked higher now), John Carroll (North

7s - RPI (East)

8s - Saint John Fisher (East), Carthage (North), Concordia-Moorhead (West)

9s - Cortland State (East), Otterbein (North)

10s - Wilkes (East), Capital (North), Central (West)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 27, 2005, 01:37:02 PM
Great stuff Gordonmann!!

Thanks a ton!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: PittTBCW on October 27, 2005, 01:40:54 PM
What seeded teams get a home playoff game???
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 27, 2005, 02:35:48 PM
Lower seed wins.  In an ideal world 1, 2, 3, and 4 host 5, 6, 7, and 8 respectively.  Next round, the 1-8 and 4-5 winners play, and the 2-7 and 3-6 winners play.

However, the AA does everything possible to keep teams from getting on a plane, so in this example they send Hardin-Simmons to Trinity and someone else to UMHB,  and match up the winners of those two games hoping that MHB wins so none of those teams has to get on a plane in the second round. 
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 27, 2005, 02:50:44 PM
My guess at the south Region bracket (and Pool C has several slots for grabs after the OAC,  the  LL and E8  and the MIAC finish their conference games).  If the NCAA will not move a #1 seed out of its own 8-team bracket, and assuming no upsets, then

Trinity (SCAC) hosts HSU (ASC)
UMHB (Pool C) hosts a fly-in (Salisbury/Wesley winner? Pool B)

Ferrum (USAC) hosts Hopkins (CC)
Thiel (Pool B) hosts Bridgewater (ODAC).

I also think that the 3-way tie in the OAC gives 2 Pool C bids, unless the ONU appeal fails.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Hug on October 27, 2005, 03:01:16 PM
Questions:
How far up will Salibury/Wesley winner move up?
How far will Ferrum fall with a loss?
How much will the UJH/HSC game effect UJH's place with a win or loss?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 27, 2005, 03:12:20 PM
Hug, IMHO:

Ferrum with a loss would fall about 5 slots.

Salisbury/Wesley winner might move up 1 slot by virtue of the win alone.

JHU win over H-SC is expected...no change in ranking.

The bigger action is occurring in the East Region with the LL  having Union playing Hobart and RPI and the E8 with Alfred playing Ithaca and St John Fisher.

In the North, North Central still has Augustana.  a second Augie loss helps us with Pool C. In the OAC, Capital has Otterbein and John Carroll.  John Carroll has Otterbein also.

In the West, St Olaf's plays St John's and Concordia-Moorhead.



Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on October 27, 2005, 03:15:10 PM
And I was told that if/when JHU beats McDaniel, then that will possibily bump the Jays past the Eagles (with BC losing to McDaniel).
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Hug on October 27, 2005, 03:17:22 PM
So when HSC beats UJH that will knock them back down past BC.......Oh waight Marty would never let that happen.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Jeremybozz on October 27, 2005, 03:34:53 PM
    If money is an issue I can see Bridgewater going to play at Ferrum if the teams win out. JHU could move up though.
    BC could also play at Thiel. I did expect W&J to be slightly higher in the rankings but there is lots of football to be played.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 27, 2005, 04:10:50 PM
Ralph,  That would be awesome if UMHB got a home playoff game.  I have to admit, I was pleased, but surprised, that UMHB was ranked 3rd.  I thought HSU would be a #1 seed until they lost, but I was a little surprised they were 6th.  Any thoughts?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 27, 2005, 04:15:36 PM
Ralph, do you think the 3rd OAC team gets placed in another region?  Is there still the possibility that a South team goes to the East?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: gordonmann on October 27, 2005, 04:18:39 PM
My guess is there won't be a third OAC team.  I think Capital will beat JCU or ONU, though maybe not both.  The second loss might be one too many for either team.

If that's not the case, I could see the third heading east.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 27, 2005, 04:23:56 PM
Gordon is much closer to that part of the country!

I agree with the 3rd OAC going to the East.

Gordon, does ONU get their appeal?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: gordonmann on October 27, 2005, 06:00:42 PM
Good question.

We're trying to figure out how this is going to play out.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 27, 2005, 06:07:15 PM
I'm glad the #1 seed doesn't get a bye this year.  I think that really hurt HSU last year when they played UMHB. 
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 28, 2005, 06:14:08 AM
Week #8 Comparison

* ranking will be based on current QOWI w/in each loss column

@ - indicates teams eligible for Pool B bids
( ) NCAA South Region Ranking


"0" D-III LOSS TEAMS  with (overall w/l) (regional w/l) QOWI

1.  TRINITY (#1)                (6-0) (5-0)     12.40      D3 #9       AFCA #6
2.  THIEL @ (#4)                (7-0) (7-0)     11.43      D3 #18     AFCA #20
3.  JOHNS HOPKINS (#7)      (7-0) (6-0)     11.17                    AFCA #16                 
4.  FERRUM (#2)                 (7-0) (6-0)     10.33                    AFCA#25

"1" D-III LOSS TEAMS

1.   SALISBURY @ (#8)          (6-1) (2-0)   13.50      D3 #17 
2.   WESLEY @ (#10)            (7-1) (4-0)   12.50
3.   HARDIN-SIMMONS (#6)    (6-1) (5-1)   10.33      D3 #10    AFCA #12       
4.   UMHB (#3)                     (5-1) (4-1)   10.00      D3# 5     AFCA #7
5.   BRIDGEWATER (#5)         (5-1) (4-1)     9.00      D3 #20    AFCA #15
      HUNTINGDON @              (5-1) (4-1)     9.00
7.   WASH & JEFF @ (#9)       (7-1) (5-1)     8.83     D3 # 15   AFCA #17
8.   DEPAUW                        (5-1) (4-1)     8.60



"2" D-III LOSS TEAMS

1.   HOWARD PAYNE        (4-3) (4-2)      9.83
2.   WASH & LEE              (5-2) (4-2)     9.00
3.   ETBU                       (4-3) (4-2)      8.83
4.   HAMPDEN SYDNEY       (5-2) (5-2)     8.71
5.   METHODIST                (5-2) (5-2)    8.43
6.   CENTRE                    (6-2) (4-2)      8.17
7.   THOMAS MORE @        (5-2) (5-2)     7.86
8.   MCMURRY                  (5-2) (4-2)     7.83
9.   CNU                          (4-3) (3-2)     7.60

* ETBU has 2 in region losses and 1 loss to a D-II team, thus in the NCAA's eyes, a (4-2) D-III record.

*CNU & HPU have 2 in region losses & stay on the board even with 3 total DIII losses.
* Once a team has more than 2 losses in region they will drop from consideration as the season progresses. Note: Pool A (automatic qualifiers) will throw "a wrench" into the number of spots available in the South Region. Total spots available in the DIII Playoff Field = 32.


South Region (Pool A) Berths (Conference Champions w/ Auto-bids)

American Southwest Conference -
Centennial Conference -
Old Dominion Athletic Conference -
Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference -
USA South Athletic Conference -

* conference champions to be updated once official   



Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 28, 2005, 06:29:15 AM
Although the South region seedings look a little out of wack, the NCAA has set the potential qualifiers just about the way we have been calling it. ;)

With Salisbury at #8, and Wesley at #10, the loser this week stays home for the playoffs. Then Washington & Jefferson at #9 moves to the East bracket as the final Pool B spot.

This leaves us a solid 8 South region teams to duke it out on the field. Current first round senario would play out as follows based of rankings and more importantly, geography.

Hardin-Simmons #6 @ Trinity #1
Bridgewater #5 @ Ferrum #2
Salisbury/Wesley #8 @ UMHB #3
Johns Hopkins #7 @ Thiel #4


Now after a couple of losses all of this will change but it looks pretty good at week 8. ;D
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: PittTBCW on October 28, 2005, 08:54:01 AM
Good Work!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 28, 2005, 09:16:19 AM
Llama guy, let me try to understand your brackets!


Hardin-Simmons #6 @ Trinity #1
Bridgewater #5 @ Ferrum #2

Salisbury/Wesley #8 @ UMHB #3
Johns Hopkins #7 @ Thiel #4


I think that the second round will have the "Texas Sub-bracket ", with Trinity hosting, IF they win  ;D,

Hardin-Simmons #6 @ Trinity #1
Salisbury/Wesley #8 @ UMHB #3


and the Mid-Atlantic sub-bracket

Bridgewater #5 @ Ferrum #2
Johns Hopkins #7 @ Thiel #4

with Ferrum hosting the second round game.

I am thinking that geographic proximity rules.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 28, 2005, 09:23:04 AM
Right on Ralph!

Trinity hosts throughout. Barring any upsets it looks as though the Texas sub-bracket holds. Even if Ferrum lost to CNU and either CNU or Methodist won the tiebreaker in the USAC it still works. I see it as if Ferrum gets a Pool C bid under that senario, then either Salisbury/Wesley winner or Johns Hopkins moves to the East with W&J. That is assuming the Ferrum Pool C would be over or take the place of a St. John's Fischer for example. The match-ups may change but the Texas & Mid Atlantic sub-regionals still hold true. ;)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 28, 2005, 09:39:14 AM
So I guess DePauw is entirely out of the picture, owing to the fact that they're not ranked in the North or the South.

A Ferrum loss had better drop them at least five slots.  I've never seen anything like them at #2 in region before.  Shesh. 

And speaking of surprises, the top four didn't surprise me much, other than I'd never have put Ferrum there.  But Bridgewater over HSU bugs me, and it's not just because I'm a HSU fan.  The Cowboys only loss is to the previous #2 team in the country in UMHB, and their QOWI is over a full point better than Bridgewater's.  Plus, B'Water's loss is to a 4-3 McDaniel team.

Since seedings and geography don't match up, why'd the NCAA do that?

Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 28, 2005, 09:53:08 AM
It seems like the south committee didn't read the criteria right.  It was the only region to have a lot of "huh" moments   :P

Just because a team's not in the top 10 now doesn't mean they are out (tho it certainly doesn't help).  There are still three weeks of f'ball and some of these teams will be losing. 
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: narch on October 28, 2005, 10:20:03 AM
llama - no usasac team will get a pool c bid - it's the aq or watching from the stands (as it should be) - ferrum and mc didn't play a strong enough ooc schedule, and cnu didn't win the ooc games that would have made them a pool c contender - a ferrum loss (monarch fans are hoping for 2 :)) will drop them further than 5 spots, in my opinion
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mizzou_mafia on October 28, 2005, 10:21:50 AM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on October 28, 2005, 09:39:14 AM
So I guess DePauw is entirely out of the picture, owing to the fact that they're not ranked in the North or the South.

A Ferrum loss had better drop them at least five slots. I've never seen anything like them at #2 in region before. Shesh.

And speaking of surprises, the top four didn't surprise me much, other than I'd never have put Ferrum there. But Bridgewater over HSU bugs me, and it's not just because I'm a HSU fan. The Cowboys only loss is to the previous #2 team in the country in UMHB, and their QOWI is over a full point better than Bridgewater's. Plus, B'Water's loss is to a 4-3 McDaniel team.

Since seedings and geography don't match up, why'd the NCAA do that?

Yeah, for that matter, why isn't JHU seeded higher, especially with Ferrum at #2.  I'm not sure about BC's higher seeding either.  Ever since McDaniel lost it's top several QBs, they haven't been the same, and they certainly aren't a playoff squad... so BC has 0 wins over ranked teams, just like HSU...would think HSU would get the higher ranking.  I can see UMHB getting ranked over Thiel because they do have a win over a regionally ranked team.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 28, 2005, 10:45:53 AM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on October 28, 2005, 09:39:14 AM

And speaking of surprises, the top four didn't surprise me much, other than I'd never have put Ferrum there.  But Bridgewater over HSU bugs me, and it's not just because I'm a HSU fan.  The Cowboys only loss is to the previous #2 team in the country in UMHB, and their QOWI is over a full point better than Bridgewater's.  Plus, B'Water's loss is to a 4-3 McDaniel team.

Since seedings and geography don't match up, why'd the NCAA do that?



I'm a Bridgewater fan and I'm with you on this one Josh. I figured BC to be somewhere between 7-9. My hypothesis still is that this all may change next week. Since the rankings were a day late, did the NCAA forget they were supposed to release them and just throw something together for this week?  Atleast they have the right top 10 picked, just in a weird order. ;)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Hug on October 28, 2005, 10:47:22 AM
narch,

Catch my up on the U-SAC. If Ferrum wins out, we know they are in. And will probably stay around a 2-4 seed. What if CNU and Meth win out, how would the scenerio play out. Coin flip?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Dutch12 on October 28, 2005, 10:50:49 AM
Quote from: mizzou_mofia on October 28, 2005, 10:21:50 AM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on October 28, 2005, 09:39:14 AM
So I guess DePauw is entirely out of the picture, owing to the fact that they're not ranked in the North or the South.



 I can see UMHB getting ranked over Thiel because they do have a win over a regionally ranked team.

I don't have a problem with UMHB behing ahead of Thiel, but Thiel also has a win against a regionally ranked team. 
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: narch on October 28, 2005, 11:12:28 AM
hug - you're absolutely right - if cnu and mc win out, 3 teams will be 6-1 in conference and all will be 1-1 in head-to-head competition - all other tie-breakers will be exhausted, so they will flip a coin to determine the aq winner...of course, i'm holding out hope that g'boro or ncwc (or both) will pull out a victory vs. ferrum, then cnu beats the panthers, in which case the tie-break between mc and cnu will be head-to-head...it would be nice to get that first ncaa birth outright rather than via coin flip, but i would take it either way if it came :)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 28, 2005, 11:29:27 AM
Mizzou, I agree w/ you RE:  Hopkins.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mizzou_mafia on October 28, 2005, 01:35:09 PM
Quote from: Dutch12 on October 28, 2005, 10:50:49 AM
Quote from: mizzou_mofia on October 28, 2005, 10:21:50 AM
I can see UMHB getting ranked over Thiel because they do have a win over a regionally ranked team.

I don't have a problem with UMHB behing ahead of Thiel, but Thiel also has a win against a regionally ranked team. 

Ah, glad you caught me on that!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mandfense on October 28, 2005, 04:56:09 PM
No way JHU should be any lower than 5th in the region.  I have no problem with them being behind the 3 Texas teams or Thiel, since Thiel beat W&J.  No way they should be behind Bridgewater and Ferrum, especially if the committee uses the criteria they say they use (ie. QOWI).

IF JHU goes 10-0, winning their conference, the last 2 on the road against McDaniel (who beat BC, albeit a different team than Game 1) and HS-C, and don't get a home playoff game, that would be an absolute injustice. 

You can't punish a team for playing the schedule they're dealt and winning all the games on that schedule.

Of course, anything can happen in those games so it may be a moot point.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: evacuee on October 28, 2005, 05:44:05 PM
Maybe you're right, but come on, they're such a bunch of nerds.  I can imagine the half time speech if they're beating someone at half time-

"You know when you were a baby in your crib, Your dad looked down at you and said some day my son will grow to be a man.  Now...look at you.  You just got your @$$e$ whipped...by a bunch of G%d D^#*ed nerds....NERDS!  Well if I was you I'd do somethin' about it.  I would get up, and redeem myself, in the eyes of my father, my maker, and my coach!"

                   -John Goodman

I love that movie, probably the best football movie ever made and there isn't even any game footage. 

Meanwhile, JHU is in the other locker room discussing global politics and how they apply to the economic viability of a Division 1-A playoff system. 

I'm kidding.  I just wanted to have something to say. 
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: badbadman on October 28, 2005, 06:07:48 PM
TU2698 - that was great - lol

Very odd #2 ranking for Ferrum and no one seems to understand it.  Maybe the committee will adjust their thinking over the next few weeks.

Mandefense -- ironically, the JHU schedule had 2 opponents that the d3football.com preview predicted to go undefeated and 2 teams that were predicted to go 7-3.  Oh well.

They may still end up getting that home playoff game if they go unbeaten.  Kid recently posted "I was told that if/when JHU beats McDaniel, then that will possibily bump the Jays past the Eagles (with BC losing to McDaniel)."

JHU needs to go get the CC AQ and go unbeaten before this matters.  However, there is alot of football left to play.  
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: badbadman on October 28, 2005, 06:19:16 PM
TU2698 - I should have karma ability, but my 800 or so posts were never xferred over to the new board.  Consider this a positive karma message.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mandfense on October 28, 2005, 06:58:06 PM
Quote from: badbadman on October 28, 2005, 06:07:48 PM
Mandefense -- ironically, the JHU schedule had 2 opponents that the d3football.com preview predicted to go undefeated and 2 teams that were predicted to go 7-3.  Oh well.

They may still end up getting that home playoff game if they go unbeaten.  Kid recently posted "I was told that if/when JHU beats McDaniel, then that will possibily bump the Jays past the Eagles (with BC losing to McDaniel)."

JHU needs to go get the CC AQ and go unbeaten before this matters.  However, there is alot of football left to play.  

Agreed.  And it starts tomorrow.  None of their last 3 games are pushovers. 
Title: Bridgewater 17, W&L 13 FINAL
Post by: Jeremybozz on October 29, 2005, 04:05:58 PM
  BC all but clinches ODAC title.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: gordonmann on October 29, 2005, 08:27:07 PM
I think they actually they do clinch.

The worst BC can do is finish 4-2 but they have wins over the other two-loss teams (Hampden-Sydney, W&L and Guilford).

BC joins SJU (MIAC), Lakeland (IBFC) and Monmouth (MWC) in wrapping up their bids early.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 29, 2005, 08:44:53 PM
Trinity, Thiel & Ferrum remain unbeaten in the South.

Johns Hopkins suffers a first loss.
Salisbury suffers a second loss.

Third losses for (and all but gone)
Washington & Lee
East Texas Baptist
Centre
Thomas More


Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 29, 2005, 09:20:49 PM
I think JH just messed alot up in the NCAA rankings today due to their favoring of geography to save money on the schools. 


Any new possible outcomes for the next few weeks if the teams continue to win out, and one must think that the JH lost and also the Salisbury lost can only help WJ become a lower seed and a hopeful for making the playoffs?????

Is that the right thinking here????
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on October 29, 2005, 10:20:09 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 29, 2005, 08:44:53 PM
Trinity, Thiel & Ferrum remain unbeaten in the South.

Johns Hopkins suffers a first loss.
Salisbury suffers a second loss.

Third losses for (and all but gone)
Washington & Lee
East Texas Baptist
Hampden-Sydney
Centre
Thomas More

Sydney killed Dickinson.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 29, 2005, 10:33:08 PM
eh....kid,

I've corrected my post from above.

I WAS going by the d3football.com scores &  standings.

That's been changed now.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 30, 2005, 08:10:35 AM
In looking at the South regional rankings, I would think Washington & Jefferson and Wesley replace Johns Hopkins and Salisbury in the polls.  The top 6 teams all won.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 30, 2005, 09:53:31 AM
Hmm, might there be room for one-loss Huntingdon and/or DePauw?

To be frank, DPU is not helping themselves with narrow wins the last two weeks against teams that aren't so good, e.g.

@DPU 7 Rhodes 3
@DPU 14 Centre 7

when you have in the same time period

@Trinity 45 Centre 7
Trinity 34 @Rhodes 6
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 30, 2005, 10:00:27 AM
Ron, Would you see DePauw or Huntington playing UMHB in Belton and HSU still going to Trinity?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on October 30, 2005, 10:10:10 AM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on October 30, 2005, 10:00:27 AM
Ron, Would you see DePauw or Huntington playing UMHB in Belton and HSU still going to Trinity?
I would think that one of the more southern teams in VA. would be sent to Texas. After all Wesley had to go to Texas to play a home game when they made the playoffs. And as it turned out Trinity's field wasn't much better!!! Wesley could very well play a Rowan or Del Val. 
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 30, 2005, 10:14:13 AM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on October 30, 2005, 10:00:27 AM
Ron, Would you see DePauw or Huntington playing UMHB in Belton and HSU still going to Trinity?

Huntingdon would be the more likely scenario, if they can get in.  They are going to have to fly regardless.  If DPU gets in, they could be shifted to the north bracket. 

Not really high on either team getting in right now, but if as many teams lose the next two weeks, it could happen.   DePauw needs to find their offense to get past Wabash.

To answer the other half of your question, it still seems likely that HSU plays at Trinity and UMHB gets someone that's flown in. 
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 30, 2005, 10:17:09 AM
Huntington would be the closest team to Texas, right.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on October 30, 2005, 10:36:06 AM
Wesley's quality of win rating may give them a higher seed in the South. Though I don't know how the Chowan game next week effects that
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 30, 2005, 10:51:59 AM
PA_wesleyfan,  I think W&J and Wesley will move into 7 & 8 in the regional rankings.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 30, 2005, 05:10:18 PM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on October 30, 2005, 10:36:06 AM
Wesley's quality of win rating may give them a higher seed in the South. Though I don't know how the Chowan game next week effects that

Chowan is now D-II so it won't affect it at all.  Based on their and Salisbury's Regional ranking, I think the commitee is not looking kindly to having half or less of their games in region. They aren't being penalized just don't think that the committee is giving their qowi equal consideration. Just my observation though.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 30, 2005, 05:19:15 PM
I think about the only thing we've learned after this week is that Salisbury will be out of the playoffs this year.

Pool B is looking like Linfield, Thiel, W&J and Wesley--and no Pool B slots falling to Pool C.  At least one of those guys gets shipped out of region.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 30, 2005, 05:22:23 PM
Actually, as was discussed on the Daily Dose earlier in the week, it looks like Chowan still conts as a regional game, although philosophically they shouldn't.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 30, 2005, 05:25:20 PM
Continuing...

In my non-professional opinion, the South Region still looking like:

1.  Trinity
2.  Thiel
3.  UMHB
4.  HSU
5.  Bridgewater
6.  Washington & Jefferson
7.  John's Hopkins/CC Winner
8.  Ferrum/USAC Winner

Matchups in my proposed scenario would be:

HSU at Trinity  (even though if HSU has to play a road game, I'd love it to be at Thiel so I could see it)
W&J at UMHB

Ferrum at Bridgewater
Hopkins at Thiel
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 30, 2005, 05:30:43 PM
Here's a question, just for kicks:

Any traction to the thought that UMHB might get sent to Trinity in the opening round, due to the fact that they'd be a Pool C team?  I'm not sure how the committee would look at that, or if it matters, since the reason they're not in Pool A consideration has to do with a hurricane.

Just curious, more than anything.  In this scenario, I could still see HSU getting sent on the road in the first round fairly easily (to Thiel, for example), with the Texas sub-bracket intact.  In this scenario, the draw would look like:

UMHB at Trinity
HSU at Thiel

W&J at Bridgewater
Hopkins/CC at Ferrum

Me thinks Ferrum would have to win out for this to be a viable scenario.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 30, 2005, 05:32:00 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on October 30, 2005, 05:30:43 PM
Any traction to the thought that UMHB might get sent to Trinity in the opening round, due to the fact that they'd be a Pool C team?

If they felt that way, surely they'd have HSU ahead of UMHB in the regional rankings instead of the other way around. I suspect we already have our answer on that.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 30, 2005, 05:37:59 PM
Just curious owing to the fact that geography trumps seeding every time, especially in the South.  I could see HSU and UMHB ending up 3-4 or 4-5 in the regional rankings, though. 

Thiel should move up, IMO, with their win over TMC.  UMHB only slips due to the fact that the ETBU doesn't earn them as many points.  Why HSU is ranked behind Bridgewater is still a mystery.

And yes, now I'm rambling....
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 30, 2005, 06:05:54 PM
Week #9 Comparison

* ranking will be based on current QOWI w/in each loss column
@ - indicates teams eligible for Pool B bids
( ) NCAA South Region Ranking - will be updated for Week 9 once released on Wednesday
AFCA Rankings updated as of Nov. 1   (N/R = not ranked)

"0" D-III LOSS TEAMS  with (overall w/l) (regional w/l) QOWI   (important games remaining)

1.  TRINITY (#1)                (7-0) (6-0)     11.50      D3 #9      AFCA#6       None
2.  THIEL @ (#4)                (8-0) (8-0)     11.00      D3 #16    AFCA#19    11/12                       at Carnegie Mellon
3.  FERRUM (#2)                 (8-0) (7-0)     10.29                   AFCA#23     11/12                      Christopher Newport

"1" D-III LOSS TEAMS

1.  WESLEY @ (#10)             (8-1) (5-0)   13.20                      N/R           None
2.  HARDIN-SIMMONS (#6)     (7-1) (6-1)   10.43      D3 #10    AFCA #11    11/12                      at Texas Lutheran       
3.  UMHB (#3)                      (6-1) (5-1)   10.33      D3# 5     AFCA #7      11/5                       McMurry
4.  JOHNS HOPKINS (#7)        (7-1) (6-1)     9.86                     N/R          11/5                      at Hampden-Sydney, 11/12 at McDaniel
5.  BRIDGEWATER (#5)          (6-1) (5-1)     9.67      D3 #18    AFCA #15    None
6.  HUNTINGDON @               (6-1) (5-1)     9.40                       N/R            11/5                      at Westminster (MO)
7.  WASH & JEFF @ (#9)       (8-1) (6-1)     8.86     D3 # 14   AFCA #17     11/5                       at Thomas More
8.  DEPAUW                        (6-1) (5-1)     8.60                        N/R        11/5                        at Rose-Hulman, 11/12 Wabash



"2" D-III LOSS TEAMS

The "2-loss" in region teams look to basically be eliminated from Pool C consideration. There are currently 14 undefeated teams and 23 "1-loss" teams in D3 football. Should enough of these teams lose in the last 2 weeks I may revisit the "2-loss" group. For now I will list the most likely "2-loss" teams to get a Pool C and the 2 or more loss teams in the USA-South conference still alive for that Pool A bid.

Top "2-loss" Pool C candidates =  1. Salisbury               (6-2) (2-1) 12.00
                                             2. Hampden-Sydney   (6-2) (6-2)   9.75

USA-South Pool A =  Methodist  (6-2)
                           Christopher Newport  (5-3)



South Region (Pool A) Berths (Conference Champions w/ Auto-bids)

American Southwest Conference -
Centennial Conference -
Old Dominion Athletic Conference - Bridgewater
Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference -
USA South Athletic Conference -

* conference champions to be updated once official     



Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mandfense on October 30, 2005, 07:35:59 PM
Quote from: Llamaguy on October 30, 2005, 06:05:54 PM

4.  JOHNS HOPKINS (#7)        (7-1) (6-1)     9.86                    AFCA #       11/5                        at Hampden-Sydney

This week's game against Hampden-Sydney is meaningless for JHU.  A win might impress some people and maybe affect seeding if they happen to make the playoffs, but win or lose, their important game is on 11/12 against McDaniel.  That's the one they'll most likely need to win to get the CC bid and into the playoffs.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mandfense on October 30, 2005, 07:54:47 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on October 30, 2005, 05:37:59 PM
Why HSU is ranked behind Bridgewater is still a mystery.

[sarcasm on]
I don't think Bridgewater's coach being on the NCAA South Evaluation Committee had anything to do with Bridgewater being higher than they should be.   ::)
[sarcasm off]
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 30, 2005, 07:55:49 PM
Quote from: mandfense on October 30, 2005, 07:35:59 PM
Quote from: Llamaguy on October 30, 2005, 06:05:54 PM

4.  JOHNS HOPKINS (#7)        (7-1) (6-1)     9.86                    AFCA #       11/5                        at Hampden-Sydney

This week's game against Hampden-Sydney is meaningless for JHU.  A win might impress some people and maybe affect seeding if they happen to make the playoffs, but win or lose, their important game is on 11/12 against McDaniel.  That's the one they'll most likely need to win to get the CC bid and into the playoffs.

Technically you are right mandefense. Though a loss to HSC may send Hopkins to the East Region or to Texas even when they beat McDaniel. ;)
The important game nomer is refering to games they could lose. If Hopkins loses to a 1-3 in conference McDaniel team who has lost 4 in a row, they don't deserve to go to the playoffs anyway. Regardless I will add the McDaniel game since it has Pool A implications.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mandfense on October 30, 2005, 08:01:55 PM
Quote from: Llamaguy on October 30, 2005, 06:05:54 PM
If Hopkins loses to a 1-3 in conference McDaniel team who has lost 4 in a row, they don't deserve to go to the playoffs anyway.

I couldn't agree with you more.  I think JHU team knows this and would agree with that statement as well.

That being said I think JHU goes down to H-SC this week, embarrassed and with a chip on their shoulder.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 30, 2005, 08:03:20 PM
Quote from: mandfense on October 30, 2005, 07:54:47 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on October 30, 2005, 05:37:59 PM
Why HSU is ranked behind Bridgewater is still a mystery.

[sarcasm on]
I don't think Bridgewater's coach being on the NCAA South Evaluation Committee had anything to do with Bridgewater being higher than they should be.   ::)
[sarcasm off]

That is funny Josh! :D I wanted to ask this week and maybe Ralph or Bonzo can get some clarification, It is a selection committee, Do they even vote on the Regional Top 10's? My impression was they meet to seed the teams after 32 are picked and placed into regions. Can anyone get any clarification?

On a side note, I don't think it really matters where HSU is seeded a long as they are behind UMHB. Texas teams stay in Texas, and the head-to-head loss will trump the equal record in any committee's eyes. I will grant you though if HSU won the Texas sub-bracket and BC won the Mid-Atlantic one that it would be better to play a Regional Championship game at home.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 30, 2005, 08:08:25 PM
Agreed Mandfense. The funny thing is, this will be JD Ricca's last home game and its Hall-of-Fame day at Hampden-Sydney. Not to mention they lost their last two home games to Bridgewater and W&L this year. HSC will not want to send Ricca out with a 3 game losing streak. They will be up as well.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mandfense on October 30, 2005, 08:15:23 PM
Quote from: Llamaguy on October 30, 2005, 08:08:25 PM
Agreed Mandfense. The funny thing is, this will be JD Ricca's last home game and its Hall-of-Fame day at Hampden-Sydney. Not to mention they lost their last two home games to Bridgewater and W&L this year. HSC will not want to send Ricca out with a 3 game losing streak. They will be up as well.

Well, JHU's last home game was yesterday and I'm sure they didn't want to send their seniors out with a loss.  Look how well that turned out.   :)

If JHU follows the same gameplan against them as they did last year, it should be a very close game.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 30, 2005, 08:18:37 PM
I believe that the seedings and brackets are done by the national committee on Selection Sunday using the input from the Regional Evaluation Committees.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 30, 2005, 08:21:30 PM
Thanks Ralph. Do you know if the committee in the handbook is who votes for the Regional Top 10's posted by the NCAA?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on October 30, 2005, 08:22:45 PM
  I think you are a over looking the fact that JHU lost to a very untested Ursinus at home.  I would think that would  drop them considerably in the regional ratings.  JHU ranks about 12th in the region in the NCAA strength of schedule.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 30, 2005, 08:33:09 PM
Yes, Llamaguy, those regional rankings are ranked by the regional advisory committee. However, when a coach or AD is on the committee, he/she must get off the conference call when their team is being discussed.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 30, 2005, 08:47:16 PM
Thanks Pat. I know personally Mike Clark has as much integrity as any coach in the country so that might clear any questions. I would wonder which way the 3 far south  ;) committee members would vote?

Josh,
I know you were being sarcastic, but some people take what they read on here as gospel, regardless of how you preface it. :-\
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mandfense on October 30, 2005, 08:52:25 PM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on October 30, 2005, 08:22:45 PM
 I think you are a over looking the fact that JHU lost to a very untested Ursinus at home.  I would think that would  drop them considerably in the regional ratings.  JHU ranks about 12th in the region in the NCAA strength of schedule.

I am??   ???  Nowhere in my last few posts did I politic on JHU's behalf after their loss this weekend so exactly how am I overlooking the loss?  

I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to deduct that JHU is going to drop in the regional rankings, if they stay in the top 10 at all.   ::)

The fact is a JHU win on the 12th or an Ursinus loss on the 5th or 12th, and JHU is in the NCAAs.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on October 30, 2005, 09:09:08 PM
 Mandfence

  I don't think I was singling you out with my opinion. There are others here whose opions differ from mine is all. Geesh get a grip. A win will make you happy again!!!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mandfense on October 30, 2005, 09:11:05 PM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on October 30, 2005, 09:09:08 PM
Mandfence

  I don't think I was singling you out with my opinion. There are others here whose opions differ from mine is all. Geesh get a grip. A win will make you happy again!!!

My apologies.  I thought you were singling me out.

Yes, winning does cure all ails.  I'm sure the beers were going down nicely in Dover last night.  Congrats on the huge Wolverine win!!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 30, 2005, 09:21:59 PM
No problem.  I wouldn't even question it, except for the rather large disparity in the QOWI numbers.  Of course, we are ALL saying the same thing about Ferrum @ #2.

Sheesh.  Of the zero or one-loss teams, they have the #6 QOWI, behind one loss UMHB, HSU and Wesley!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 30, 2005, 09:36:53 PM
BTW, Lamaguy, thanks for the continued visual breakdown of the relevant playoff stats.  It makes it easy to be a pundit when you've got all the info at your fingertips--literally!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 30, 2005, 10:31:13 PM
I'm with ya Josh. As I said last week, I will be curious to see if the order changes this week with everything coming out late last week. Did someone at the NCAA drop the ball and they have to rush together a Top 10? Guess we will find out come Wednesday? I hope! ;D
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Hug on October 31, 2005, 10:36:56 AM
Would this shock anyone (after last weeks rankings)-
My Projection for this week's Regional Rankings
1-Trinity
2-Ferrum
3-Thiel
4-UMHB
5-Wesley
6-BC
7-Hardin Simmons
8-Wash & Jeff
9-Johns Hopkins
10-Salisbury

I think they will start positioning teams for post season alignment.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 31, 2005, 11:50:34 AM
Hug, I wouldn't drop HSU to 7th or UMHB to 4th.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Hug on October 31, 2005, 12:01:04 PM
Bill,

I have UMHB as the highest ranked 1 loss team.  And I agree, there is no way that Hardin Simmons is the 7th best team in the South.  I actually would pick them to win the South Bracket, but unfortuantely The Cowboys will be going to Trinity in the first round. So I believe the commitee will under value them to make the brackets look more respectible.

I do also believe that the three remaining undefeteds have done enough to warrent the top three positions.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 31, 2005, 02:11:34 PM
Since everyone on this board was shocked to see Ferrum so high on the NCAA's regional rankings heres a little tidbit.

Ferrum beat Emory and Henry 29-13 in the second week of the season at E&H.

WJ beat Emory and Hentry 50-0 the fourth week of the season at E&H. (E&H had a bye week inbetween)

Thiel beat WJ 35-38 in the 5th week of the season at WJ. 

Would anyone in their right mind take this into consideration?? Or is this research that I did a waste????Its the only comparison that I could find of teams that I could draw a connection to.  Is Ferrum the real deal and a deserve the Number 2 ranking?  Or should another Pool B team be in the position?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: religion_major on October 31, 2005, 02:35:54 PM
Cartel,
I for the life of me cannot figure out why Ferrum is above Thiel.  I would think such criteria as victory over a Regionally Ranked team (W&J) and higher quality of win index would put Thiel above Ferrum before point spreads (in my understanding not an evaluation criteria) against one win teams are even looked at.  I don't believe that the E&H results should be looked at other than to say that both Ferrum and W&J won the games.  The primary criteria should make it evedent that Thiel should be #2 and Ferrum #3.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: tcheadhunter on October 31, 2005, 02:43:43 PM
Ferrum has only beat 2 teams with winning records (and those 2 are average at best). All 8 opponents are a combined 20-44 and 4 of those teams have only 1 win. But again I do respect the 8-0 but it's all relative to the teams you beat. Ferrum (in my lowly opinion) should not be ranked that high.   
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 31, 2005, 02:50:39 PM
Quote from: tcheadhunter on October 31, 2005, 02:43:43 PM
Ferrum has only beat 2 teams with winning records (and those 2 are average at best). All 8 opponents are a combined 20-44 and 4 of those teams have only 1 win. But again I do respect the 8-0 but it's all relative to the teams you beat. Ferrum (in my lowly opinion) should not be ranked that high.   

Someone else did point out that two coaches of teams defeated by Ferrum were on the South Region evaluation committee.  That is the ONLY explanation (IMHO) for Ferrum getting ranked that high.   

The good news is the playoffs let the players sort this out on the field. 
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 31, 2005, 02:51:29 PM
TC,

Credit must be given for them being 8-0 as you said.  I definetly give them credit because even though those teams are 20-44 they still had to get a W.  I agree with both of you Religion Major and TC that they are not deserving of the 2nd seed in the South.  I would be entertained by the NCAA's way of explaining there reasoning to everyone.  It has to be Geography that they are thinking.  Who knows!  Any maybe someone in the South region will over take them for that Position and it does not have to be Thiel.   I am a firm believer in earning your keep and yes they have gone 8-0 but the measure of how strong those teams are they have played is weak, and that has not been taken into FULL consideration. 

The class I dreaded the most growing up was GEOGRAPHY and I am still feeling the effects of it!!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 31, 2005, 02:52:04 PM
Ron,

Let the bodies hit the FLOOOR!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 31, 2005, 02:54:40 PM
The AA doesn't take geography into account when it assigns seeds; it does when pairing teams off.   That is why (for example) today you would see a #6 Hardin-Simmons go to #1 Trinity instead of to #3.  

In fact, if for some reason the seeds ended up with three TX teams in the top 4 (has happened before, prolly won't again this year), the lowest will go to the highest and get screwed out of a home game altogether.  
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 31, 2005, 02:59:41 PM
Ron,

That is news to me because I was always under the impression that they were taking Geography into consideration the entire time not just for the pairings.  Thanks Ron
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Toby Taff on October 31, 2005, 11:54:44 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger (BfB) on October 31, 2005, 02:54:40 PM
The AA doesn't take geography into account when it assigns seeds; it does when pairing teams off.   That is why (for example) today you would see a #6 Hardin-Simmons go to #1 Trinity instead of to #3. 

In fact, if for some reason the seeds ended up with three TX teams in the top 4 (has happened before, prolly won't again this year), the lowest will go to the highest and get screwed out of a home game altogether. 

Gee, never seen that before.  ::)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 01, 2005, 12:59:31 PM
By putting  the Texas teams in a sub-bracket, so to speak Cleveland, it essentially does accomplish that.

Assume HSU and Trinity play in the first round.  Obviously, a Texas team has to win.  Putting a Ferrum or Thiel up against an UMHB team on the road also looks like a safe bet, given the ASC's results vs. the rest of the south region in previous years.

No, that's definitely a way the NCAA can get away with only two flights in this area until the national semifinals.  They've done it before, and I see no reason to expect that it will be any different this year, unfortunately.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 01, 2005, 02:08:18 PM
Just for everyone's information, here are the members of the South Evaluation Region committee:

Charles Harris, Averett University, cochair (AD)
Steve Mohr, Trinity University, cochair (coach)
Paul Barnes, Shenandoah University (coach)
Mike Clark, Bridgewater College (coach)
Mike Clary, Rhodes College (AD)
Mike Donnelly, Muhlenberg College (coach)
Ralph Harris, East Texas Baptist University (coach)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 01, 2005, 03:25:40 PM
I've spent a little time this afternoon looking at projected QOWI and what that might do to South Region playoff pairings.  Assuming that the favored team (i.e. the one with the better record, or the home team if all things are equal) wins out, the following should be close to what the QOWI will look like on Selection Sunday:

1.  Wesley     13.00
2.  Trinity       11.38
3.  Thiel         11.10
4.  HSU          10.67
5.  Ferrum     10.56
6.  UMHB       10.50
7.  B'Water   10.38
8.  JHU          10.33
9.  W&J           9.38

So, because of this, here's what I'm thinking the selection committee might do, seeding-wise:

1.  Trinity  (highest QOWI)
2.  UMHB  (because of win on road over HSU)
3.  Thiel    (because of slightly less impressive win on road vs. W&J)
4.  HSU     (Pool A, #3 regional QOWI)
5.  Ferrum  (better QOWI than B'Water plus undefeated gets to host)
6.  Bridgewater  (HSC and W&L victories & QOWI points mask 31-49 record of opponents)
7.  JHU  (QOWI almost full point better than W&J)
8.  W&J  (last team seeded in south, they get it over Wesley because of potential geography vs. Thiel in later rounds)

Wesley gets shipped to East bracket, likely as #1 or #2 seed.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 01, 2005, 03:25:56 PM
(continued)

So, based on seeding and geography, here's the first round, IMHO, if the playoffs were to start today, complete with rationale:

UMHB at Trinity
HSU at Thiel

Rationale:  HSU is pool A bid winner and has higher QOWI than UMHB.  Ergo, UMHB goes to higher seeded Trinity, HSU to higher seeded Thiel.  Texas sub-bracket still intact unless Thiel pull major shocker.  Trinity OR UMHB to host HSU in second round.

Bridgewater at Ferrum
W&J at John's Hopkins

Rationale:  Undefeated Ferrum gets to host game because of their record and the fact that B'Water's loss is to likely 4-6 McDaniel team at home.  Hopkins gets to host W&J for geography and because they have almost full point QOWI advantage.

Obviously, in this scenario, the bottom half of the draw has a much easier road to travel to the quarterfinals than the top half of the draw.  But alas, geography always takes precedent.  It will be interesting to see how much weight in the home/away matchups is given to QOWI and/or head-to-head matchups in-region vs. playoff teams.

Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 01, 2005, 03:41:27 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on November 01, 2005, 03:25:40 PM

So, because of this, here's what I'm thinking the selection committee might do, seeding-wise:

1.  Trinity  (highest QOWI)
2.  UMHB  (because of win on road over HSU)
3.  Thiel    (because of slightly less impressive win on road vs. W&J)
4.  HSU     (Pool A, #3 regional QOWI)
5.  Ferrum  (better QOWI than B'Water plus undefeated gets to host)
6.  Bridgewater  (HSC and W&L victories & QOWI points mask 31-49 record of opponents)
7.  JHU  (QOWI almost full point better than W&J)
8.  W&J  (last team seeded in south, they get it over Wesley because of potential geography vs. Thiel in later rounds)

Wesley gets shipped to East bracket, likely as #1 or #2 seed.

Josh, I don't know why you put emphasis on HSU being a Pool A winner.  Nothing in the playoff seeding criteria says anything about Pool A being better than Pool C. 

I think the fact that UMHB beat HSU head-to-head will A) give them the higher seed, B) send HSU to Trinity. 

Also, unless the Selection Committee continues to show disregard for the criteria, using the QOWI you came up with, I think an undefeated Thiel with a higher QOWI than a one-loss UMHB will be seeded higher.  They both have 1 win over a regionally ranked opponent, so that should be a wash.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 01, 2005, 03:47:12 PM
No, but they'd have a higher QOWI, too.  So, IMO, those two things combined could very well send them to Thiel.  Remember, also, that the criteria are used to determine who gets in the playoffs, not seedings or home/away pairings.

I mean, if not HSU, who are you going to send to Thiel?  UMHB?

You have to keep the Texas sub-bracket for travel purposes, and Thiel obviously deserves a home game as an undefeated w/ the #2 QOWI in-region.  Can't put W&J there in the first round because of the conference affiliation.

Remember that seedings and pairings have nothing to do with each other--ergo the fact that the winner of the Trinity/UMHB game hosts HSU or Thiel in the second round.

This is beginning to seem like the most viable scenario, in my mind.  ASC is strong all year, but gets shipped on the road.  Sucks to be in Texas this year, me thinks.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 01, 2005, 03:51:22 PM
Josh,

I'll post some projected seedings in a few more minutes, but my initial thought is that the region will want to give both Trinity and UMHB a home game.  In this way, if the top team seeded team in each game wins, then it's an all-Texas game in Round 2.

Also, I really don't think the committee is going to make UMHB travel to the Number 1 seed because of a < .2 difference in QOWI.  When it's that marginal, other criteria, such as head-to-head, I should think will take precendence.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 01, 2005, 03:55:28 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on November 01, 2005, 03:47:12 PM
Remember, also, that the criteria are used to determine who gets in the playoffs, not seedings or home/away pairings.


Actually, the Criteria is used for seeding and home/away pairings.

"Teams may be seeded on a regional basis using the regional selection criteria."
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 01, 2005, 03:57:15 PM
Not according to the FAQs on the front page...but I might be wrong and need to look in a different spot.

Of course, the rest of the bracket could get slotted because of a > .2 QOWI, too, MM.

Just my opinion, here.  But who does Thiel get to play and where?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 01, 2005, 03:59:26 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on November 01, 2005, 03:57:15 PM
Not according to the FAQs...but I might be wrong.

The quote I posted was from the NCAA handbook.  I've been on top of the criteria the past several years and double checked to make sure nothing of that nature had changed, and it hadn't. 

http://www.ncaa.org/library/handbooks/football/2005/2005_d3_football_handbook.pdf

Page 12-13.  It specifically talks about "Selection Criteria -- For Ranking and Selection"

Give me a sec, I'll have some pairings up :)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 01, 2005, 04:02:14 PM
I do want to point out that "In-region head-to-head competition" and "In-region results vs regionally ranked opponents" are also primary criteria, and neither should be given any less weight than any QOWI numbers.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 01, 2005, 04:02:33 PM
I'll give you a sec.... time's up!   ;)

With what you're saying, UMHB could end up with the #1 seed then--since they have the better win over a ranked regional opponent (when compared to Thiel) and wins over the same opponents that Trinity does (ergo a wash), and QOWI falls further down on the criteria list than head to head stuff.

I gotta go to my daughter's soccer game, but I'll be back later tonight to see what you've come up with, MM.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 01, 2005, 04:08:15 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on November 01, 2005, 04:02:33 PM

With what you're saying, UMHB could end up with the #1 seed then--since they have the better win over a ranked regional opponent (when compared to Thiel)

Josh,

You keep mentioning "Better ranked regional opponent."  When you're working on your pairings, I wouldn't worry about where opponents are ranked, but just IF they are ranked.  The selection criteria says wins against regionally ranked opponents are used, but you won't find anything in the primary or secondary criteria about an advantage being obtained for beating a higher ranked regional opponent.

Now, I really will get to some projections.. ;)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 01, 2005, 04:51:33 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on November 01, 2005, 03:25:40 PM
I've spent a little time this afternoon looking at projected QOWI and what that might do to South Region playoff pairings.  Assuming that the favored team (i.e. the one with the better record, or the home team if all things are equal) wins out, the following should be close to what the QOWI will look like on Selection Sunday:

1.  Wesley     13.00
2.  Trinity       11.38
3.  Thiel         11.10
4.  HSU          10.67
5.  Ferrum     10.56
6.  UMHB       10.50
7.  B'Water   10.38
8.  JHU          10.33
9.  W&J           9.38

Ok, for these projections, I'm not looking outside the South Region at all.  Because of this, these projections could be VERY flawed, because all 9 teams Josh mentioned may not make the playoffs.  As I have limited time right now, I will just assume that all 9 teams make the playoffs. 

I will be using the projected QOWI that Josh provided us.  This may also change during the remainder of the season.  As QOWI is NOT the only primary criteria, I'll try to explain why I feel these teams should get these seedings if they win out.

I'll also follow Josh's lead and ship Wesley out of the region.  This makes sense geographically, but without looking at the other regions, this may be dumb.  I wouldn't be surprised to see the committee ship out a lower seed elsewhere (like W&J or HSU).  For example, HSU could get shipped to Linfield, if someone would have to fly there anyway.  This really depends on the national picture, which I'm not going to look at right now. 

First, a question... is Thiel's game with Bluffton an in-region game?  Am I correct that if a school is within 200 miles of each other, it's an in-region game.  Mapquest has these two schools at more than 230 miles apart, yet the NCAA regional rankings show Thiel with 7 of 7 games being in region (before this past weekend's game).
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 01, 2005, 04:54:03 PM
Actually, I think that Josh is just trying to get HSU to come to Pennsylvania for a playoff game. ;)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 01, 2005, 05:16:47 PM
Seedings
1) Thiel 10-0?, 10-0, QOWI 11.10, 1 win over regionally ranked opponent
2) Trinity 8-0, 9-0, QOWI 11.38
3) Ferrum 10-0, 10-0, QOWI 10.56
4) UMHB 7-1, 8-1, QOWI 10.50, 1 win over regionally ranked opponent
5) HSU 8-1, 9-1, QOWI 10.67
6) JHU, 8-1, 9-1, QOWI 10.33
7) B'Water 7-1, 8-1, QOWI 10.38
8 ) W&J 7-1, 9-1, QOWI 9.38

Pairings
1 Theil vs 7 B'Water
3 Ferrum vs 8 W&J

2 Trinity vs 5 HSU
4 UMHB vs 6 JHU

Sidenote: Trinity and BC both have a member on the selection committee.  I wouldn't be surprised to see Trinity leapfrog Thiel for #1, or B'Water move up to 6.  HOWEVER, even if this happens, I think the only pairing that could get changed is who gets shipped to UMHB.  

Rationale for Seeding and Pairing
--Thiel is the only undefeated with a win against a regionally ranked opponent, and has a comparable QOWI to Trinity, thus the #1 seeding.
--Trinity and Ferrum come next, as they both have a better winning % against regional opponents (a primary criteria) than the remaining field.  Trinity has a higher QOWI than Ferrum, thus the higher seeding.
--UMHB beat HSU head-to-head, placing them higher than HSU.  UMHB also has a win over a regionally ranked opponent and a comparable QOWI in relation to the rest of the field.  Thus, #4
--HSU before JHU based on QOWI.  All other things are a wash.
--JHU ahead of BC based on region winning %.  QOWI basically even.
--BC ahead of W&J based on significant QOWI advantage.

In pairings, I kept Thiel and W&J away from each other in the first round, and UHMB and HSU away from each other.  I believe everyone else is close enough for busing.

Comments?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: spliskin on November 01, 2005, 05:51:14 PM
MM,

Bluffton is considered a regional game for Thiel.

BTW - good work!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 01, 2005, 07:04:42 PM
Quote from: mizzou_mofia on November 01, 2005, 05:16:47 PM
[...]

Pairings
1 Theil vs 7 B'Water
3 Ferrum vs 8 W&J

2 Trinity vs 5 HSU
4 UMHB vs 6 JHU

[...]

Comments?

Excellent analysis!  I could see MHB having to play the lower seeded W&J team and sending JHU to Thiel instead.  Leaving Bridgewater to travel to Ferrum.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on November 01, 2005, 08:41:56 PM
Tomorrow's Regional rankings should tell us alot. If the Top 6 stay the same I think we will have a good idea what the committee is thinking. Barring a McMurry over UMHB, a CNU over Ferrum, or a major upset with the rest of the top 6, things should stay the same after tomorrow's release.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 01, 2005, 08:49:43 PM
Quote from: Llamaguy on November 01, 2005, 08:41:56 PM
Tomorrow's Regional rankings [...]

Or Thursday's ... or Friday's.

Whenever they decide to post them :)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 01, 2005, 09:16:34 PM
Keep an eye on the W&J at Thomas More game this weekend.  If Thomas More springs the upset, Thiel won't have a win against a regionally ranked opponent.
Title: Poll
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 01, 2005, 10:30:20 PM
Poll posted.

These seem to be the last five 'big' games of the season for the South Region.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 01, 2005, 11:30:29 PM
One-loss DePauw vs. undefeated Wabash in Week 12  is certainly a big game for DPU, in the South Region thanks to their SCAC membership.  A win gives them one against a regionally ranked opponent and would have to vault them into the thick of Pool C consideration. 
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 02, 2005, 12:08:26 AM
MS Streets and Trips says 199.5 miles from Thiel to Bluffton.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: smedindy on November 02, 2005, 12:45:30 AM
That's week 11, actually.

And Ron..

Ain't gonna happen...(I am bound to say that...)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 02, 2005, 02:47:10 AM
We have posted our playoff projections:

http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on November 02, 2005, 08:03:25 AM
Interesting Projections Pat! Wow, a one loss W&J who doesn't even get into the dance. :o Moving John Carroll into the South is a new twist. I'm sure some of this will change by selection day, its a start though.

My best guess is that Union loses two, RPI doesn't get in over W&J and things are back on track. As for the John Carroll prediction, gotta put them somewhere (if they get in) never considered the South but it is a possibility.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 02, 2005, 08:11:18 AM
Quote from: Llamaguy on November 02, 2005, 08:03:25 AM
Interesting Projections Pat! Wow, a one loss W&J who doesn't even get into the dance. :o...

No surprise there!
Title: W&J Playoff Hopes
Post by: PittTBCW on November 02, 2005, 08:24:56 AM
Lets see what people think!!!
Title: Re: W&J Playoff Hopes
Post by: spliskin on November 02, 2005, 08:38:25 AM
According to PCole's column on "projecting the playoffs" it seems he thinks they need some help to get in. I was a bit surprised that he left them out of his projections but he should understand the playoff picture better than I do. It looks like a low QOWI is what's hurting W&J at this point. Looking at Pat's projections, it seems Capital needs to beat JCU & Wabash needs to beat Depauw for Monon Bell to knock them out along with W&J winning vs TMC next week for W&J to get in (at least this is what I am taking from Pat's column).

Disclaimer: others in the south could also lose which may get W&J in but I listed the most likely slip-ups based on Pat's analysis.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: spliskin on November 02, 2005, 08:50:15 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 02, 2005, 08:11:18 AM
Quote from: Llamaguy on November 02, 2005, 08:03:25 AM
Interesting Projections Pat! Wow, a one loss W&J who doesn't even get into the dance. :o...

No surprise there!

Bob,

I am sensing some antimousity toward PCole. That's new ;)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 02, 2005, 08:54:08 AM
just a little TRULY friendly banter between pcole & me regarding W&J.  That's all.  Nothing more, nothing less.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on November 02, 2005, 09:06:15 AM
You could also as easily see sending John Carroll to UMHB. Shorter bus ride to Ferrum for BC and a plane flight either way. Athough if you assume that Bridgewater is a better bet to lose at UMHB, thereby assuring a Texas vs. Texas second round, its possible.  I also feel that the committee may sway toward keeping BC on a bus first week since a committee memeber is on the panel. I know they can't hear what the rest of the crew is saying but I think they would avoid flying BC out unless its absolutely necessary (committee courtesy). ;) Pat, any thoughts?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 02, 2005, 09:11:00 AM
Actually, W&J is competing against Linfield, Thiel, Wesley and Whitworth for the 4th Pool B and the last 3 Pool C teams whom I will guess are Wartburg/Coe/Central, St John Fisher and John Carroll.  They are in the same boat as Concordia-Moorhead who has a last minute loss to St John's.

The only Pool C teams listed in the South are John Carroll and UMHB.

As for the bus ride, John Carroll fits nicely into the northern half of the bracket.

Aw llamguy, we would love to have Bridgewater come to Belton! :)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 02, 2005, 10:00:27 AM
Quote from: smedindy on November 02, 2005, 12:45:30 AM
That's week 11, actually.

And Ron..

Ain't gonna happen...(I am bound to say that...)

I only talk about possibilities :)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: religion_major on November 02, 2005, 10:13:49 AM
I would see Johns Hopkins as a #8 seed getting punished with a flight to Texas as opposed to Bridgewater.  Remember Hopkins is right next to BWI airport where as the nearest airport to BC is at least two hours away.  I would see John Carroll to Thiel, BC to Ferrum and Hopkins to UMHB as opposed to BC to UMHB.  Geographicly is does not make sense to give John Carroll a 500 mile bus ride, JHU as long bus ride and BC a flight when BC could take a short bus ride to Ferrum, John Carroll could have a more reasonable bus ride to Thiel and the NCAA could save money on a bus to the airport for Hopkins and still keep the Texas sub-regional in order.  Just my geographic two cents...
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Hug on November 02, 2005, 10:26:35 AM
rm,

yep!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on November 02, 2005, 11:26:27 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 02, 2005, 09:11:00 AM


Aw llamguy, we would love to have Bridgewater come to Belton! :)

As would I Ralph. For the South Region Championship! I prefer a little less travel the first two weeks, but thats just me. ;)

Afterall, to get to the Stagg you have to beat good teams each week.
Bring it on!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Hug on November 02, 2005, 12:21:57 PM
Who has a link to get to the NCAA regional rankings page?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 02, 2005, 12:25:29 PM
http://www.ncaasports.com/football/mens/polls/polls/diviii

Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Hug on November 02, 2005, 12:43:03 PM
Thank you Ron.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 02, 2005, 01:18:07 PM
I posted this on the ODAC board, but think it also fits in well here.

I was just looking at the South Region Rankings put up on Oct 26.  I've been trying to figure out what exactly they were thinking in putting together their rankings.  Here's a thought:  Maybe they seeded the teams the way they wanted them to pair up.  In other words, the seedings were more of a pairing.

I know that the NCAA guidelines advise to keep conference teams from playing each other in the first round, if they can work it out in the geography.  But...

1. Trinity (Texas) 5-0 6-0
2. Ferrum 7-0 7-0
3. Mary Hardin-Baylor 4-1 5-1
4. Thiel 7-0 7-0
5. Bridgewater (Virginia) 4-1 5-1
6. Hardin-Simmons 5-1 6-1
7. Johns Hopkins 6-0 7-0
8. Salisbury 2-0 6-1

At that point I could have seen 1v8, 2v7, 3v6, 4v5...with the committee forgetting about the 'in-conference' thing.

We could follow this train of thinking further and include some of Pat's insights by moving John Carroll to the South.

The 6 seed from the north, John Carroll could fill HSU's spot in the above scenario, and HSU could fill any vacancy left in the West by an IIAC school falling out of the rankings.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 02, 2005, 01:30:49 PM
If that's the case, does HSU get a home game?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 02, 2005, 01:50:38 PM
Well, let's just say of the top 10 in the West Region right now, Whitworth could drive to Linfield, but after that, who's going to fly into Occidental (Pat's projected 3 seed in the West).  Maybe the 6 seed in the South (HSU)...a team that someone would have to fly to anyway.   Of course, it could by UMHB too...

Just some thoughts to make you Texas boys even more antsy.. :)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 02, 2005, 01:53:04 PM
And Josh, if that happens, I'd think HSU would be the road team...UMHB...I'm not sure if they'd get home or away against Occidental...haven't compared those numbers. 

In any case, if the Texas team won, they'd likely get a trip to Linfield in the 2nd round :)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 02, 2005, 02:17:40 PM
Yes, rooting for Pool C teams to lose can help but better for W&J if Pool B teams lose.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 02, 2005, 02:20:04 PM
Quote from: mizzou_mofia on November 02, 2005, 01:50:38 PM
Well, let's just say of the top 10 in the West Region right now, Whitworth could drive to Linfield, but after that, who's going to fly into Occidental (Pat's projected 3 seed in the West).  Maybe the 6 seed in the South (HSU)...a team that someone would have to fly to anyway.   Of course, it could by UMHB too...

Just some thoughts to make you Texas boys even more antsy.. :)

That's always possible, too. I did glance at that possibility last night. Basketball has done it.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Toby Taff on November 02, 2005, 04:07:30 PM
Quote from: mizzou_mofia on November 02, 2005, 01:50:38 PM
Well, let's just say of the top 10 in the West Region right now, Whitworth could drive to Linfield, but after that, who's going to fly into Occidental (Pat's projected 3 seed in the West).  Maybe the 6 seed in the South (HSU)...a team that someone would have to fly to anyway.   Of course, it could by UMHB too...

Just some thoughts to make you Texas boys even more antsy.. :)

Hey, that would open up the possibility of an HSU-MHB Stagg Bowl for the rematch!  Talk about making my education more difficult!  Well, at least that would be between semseters.  ;)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 02, 2005, 04:09:34 PM
NCAA poll released for north and east, but not south or west.   :'(

I suppose they're having intern problems--again.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 02, 2005, 04:18:51 PM
Well, everyone knows those are the two most important regions this year  ;D

Six two-loss teams already in the North/East.  Gonna be a lot of unhappy teams sitting at home with those kinds of records. 
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: firewater on November 02, 2005, 07:16:57 PM
If you can not beat teams in the PAC, you do not deserve to go to the playoffs.  W and J will stay home or go to an ECAC game.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 02, 2005, 07:27:10 PM
Quote from: firewater on November 02, 2005, 07:16:57 PM
If you can not beat teams in the PAC, you do not deserve to go to the playoffs.

That's a little harsh, don't you think, considering a PAC school sent several teams packing FROM the playoffs last year.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: spliskin on November 02, 2005, 08:00:26 PM
Quote from: firewater on November 02, 2005, 07:16:57 PM
If you can not beat teams in the PAC, you do not deserve to go to the playoffs.  W and J will stay home or go to an ECAC game.

Whoa! That is harsh. Someone smite this guy for me please.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Toby Taff on November 02, 2005, 09:15:03 PM
Quote from: spliskin on November 02, 2005, 08:00:26 PM
Quote from: firewater on November 02, 2005, 07:16:57 PM
If you can not beat teams in the PAC, you do not deserve to go to the playoffs.  W and J will stay home or go to an ECAC game.

Whoa! That is harsh. Someone smite this guy for me please.

I would but for two things, I'm no mercenary smiter, and we played W&J last year in PA  ;D
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: PittTBCW on November 02, 2005, 09:29:27 PM
Someone give spliskin some medicine....I think he has gone crazy!!!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 03, 2005, 08:41:26 AM
I agree with mhb8904.  W&J is 0-3 versus Texas.

1999 HSU wins 51-3
2002 Trinity wins 45-10
2004 UMHB wins 52-16.

Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 03, 2005, 08:53:38 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 03, 2005, 08:41:26 AM
I agree with mhb8904.  W&J is 0-3 versus Texas.

1999 HSU wins 51-3
2002 Trinity wins 45-10
2004 UMHB wins 52-16.
[/size]
UH UH UH!!!

1994, on the way to their second Stagg Bowl appearance in three seasons,

W&J 28, at Trinity 0

Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 03, 2005, 09:12:52 AM
Thanks, Bob!
Title: New Poll
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 03, 2005, 09:16:57 AM
New poll posted.


Previous poll:

Will W&J get in the National Playoffs?

Definitely, if they win out - 13 (40.6%)
Need some help even if they win out - 17 (53.1%)
No, does not matter if they win out - 2 (6.3%)
 
Total Votes: 32
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Hug on November 03, 2005, 10:15:06 AM
South region rankings are up.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: PittTBCW on November 03, 2005, 10:16:29 AM
Quote from: Hug on November 03, 2005, 10:15:06 AM
South region rankings are up.


How do I get to them???
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 03, 2005, 10:18:54 AM
Didn't I post this link like yesterday in this forum? 

http://www.ncaasports.com/football/mens/polls/polls/diviii

South
1.   Trinity (Texas)   6-0   7-0
2.   Ferrum   8-0   8-0   
3.   Mary Hardin-Baylor   5-1   6-1
4.   Thiel   8-0   8-0
5.   Bridgewater (Virginia)   5-1   6-1
6.   Wesley   5-0   8-1
7.   Hardin-Simmons   6-1   7-1
8.   Washington and Jefferson   6-1   8-1
9.   Johns Hopkins   6-1   7-1
10.   DePauw   5-1   6-1

Congrats to DPU for getting in the top ten ... much better shot at getting a bid with two more W's.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: PittTBCW on November 03, 2005, 10:27:29 AM
South
1. Trinity (Texas) 6-0 7-0
2. Ferrum 8-0 8-0 
3. Mary Hardin-Baylor 5-1 6-1
4. Thiel 8-0 8-0
5. Bridgewater (Virginia) 5-1 6-1
6. Wesley 5-0 8-1
7. Hardin-Simmons 6-1 7-1
8. Washington and Jefferson 6-1 8-1
9. Johns Hopkins 6-1 7-1
10. DePauw 5-1 6-1


Sorry is you did post the link Ron I must have missed it!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 03, 2005, 10:41:18 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 03, 2005, 08:53:38 AM
1994, on the way to their second Stagg Bowl appearance in three seasons,

W&J 28, at Trinity 0

I might point out to our Ferrum fans that Trinity followed the exact same scenario that the Panthers are experiencing this year:  an undefeated season out of nowhere, only to get owned in the first D3 playoff game in school history.   And at home (never did figure out why W&J had to come to Trinity in '94). 
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Toby Taff on November 03, 2005, 10:42:29 AM
Quote from: PittTBCW on November 03, 2005, 10:27:29 AM
South
1. Trinity (Texas) 6-0 7-0
2. Ferrum 8-0 8-0 
3. Mary Hardin-Baylor 5-1 6-1
4. Thiel 8-0 8-0
5. Bridgewater (Virginia) 5-1 6-1
6. Wesley 5-0 8-1
7. Hardin-Simmons 6-1 7-1
8. Washington and Jefferson 6-1 8-1
9. Johns Hopkins 6-1 7-1
10. DePauw 5-1 6-1

Did HSU fall a spot because of quarterback attrition?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: religion_major on November 03, 2005, 10:45:32 AM
My guess is Wesley jumped HSU because they are underfeated in the region while HSU has a regional loss.  Even then I can't understand why BC is above Wesley (I may point out for those who do not know I am a Bridgewater fan).
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 03, 2005, 10:56:09 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger (BfB) on November 03, 2005, 10:41:18 AM...(never did figure out why W&J had to come to Trinity in '94). 

BFB, there was the W&J loss in Week 9 to Cortland State.

The wildest thing about that game was the play of W&J DT Matt Szczypinski.  Had knee surgery on Tuesday (scope) in Pennsylvania and played Saturday in Texas.  And was a force!

Mr. Alphabet Soup that winter added Kodak AFCA A-A to the Szczypinski, in addition to his AP Little A-A, and Champion A-A and PAC All-Conference, and host of other letters.

I enjoyed my visit to Texas that day! (as I'm sure you can imagine!)
Title: This is Old News for You Texas Guys
Post by: pakownr97 on November 03, 2005, 10:57:54 AM
Before I voted in the new poll, I wanted to check to make sure UMHB won their matchup with HSU.  

What I didn't remember was the score, 38-7. WOW!  Now I see why HSU is ranked so low.  I know a loss is a loss, but I think we all expected a closer game.

So I voted for UMHB, but don't count out Bridgewater.  I think any of the top eight have a realistic chance to make it to the semis.

Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: tTU719803 on November 03, 2005, 11:00:43 AM
Trinity had a great team in '94.  Their defense was stacked.  But it was a case of a team that was only a year removed from being the perennial SCAC doormat being in a playoff game for the first time and choking.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 03, 2005, 11:17:16 AM

RnkSchoolRecordsQoWiWeek 10Week 11
1Trinity, Texas6-0, 7-011.500at Sewanee (4-4)vs Millsaps (1-6)
2Ferrum8-0, 8-010.286at N.C. Wesleyan (3-5)vs Christopher Newport (5-3)
3Mary Hardin-Baylor5-1, 6-110.333vs McMurry (5-3)at Austin (1-7)
4Thiel8-0, 8-011.000vs Buffalo State (3-4)at Carnegie Mellon (4-4)
5Bridgewater, Va.5-1, 6-19.667vs Randolph-Macon (2-6)vs Catholic (3-5)
6Wesley5-0, 8-113.200at ChowanOpen
7Hardin-Simmons6-1, 7-110.429vs Austin (1-7)at Texas Lutheran (4-4)
8Washington & Jefferson6-1, 8-18.857at Thomas More (5-3)Open
9Johns Hopkins6-1, 7-19.857at Hampden-Sydney (6-2)at McDaniel (4-4)
10DePauw5-1, 6-19.500at Rose-Hulman (5-3)vs Wabash (8-0)

The next five (by QoWi):


RnkSchoolRecordsQoWiWeek 10Week 11
--Salisbury2-1, 6-212.000vs Widener (6-2)at Frostburg State (5-3)
--Hampden-Sydney6-2, 6-29.750vs Johns Hopkins (7-1)at Randolph-Macon (2-6)
--Howard Payne5-2, 5-39.714vs Louisiana College (3-4)at Mississippi College (1-6)
--Huntingdon4-1, 6-19.400at Westminster, Mo. (5-4)vs Maryville, Tenn. (1-7)
--Methodist6-2, 6-29.000at Greensboro (1-7)vs Shenandoah (1-7)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 03, 2005, 11:30:35 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 03, 2005, 10:56:09 AM
I enjoyed my visit to Texas that day! (as I'm sure you can imagine!)

I was there too, Bob.  It was the first game I had attended since my days at the school in the early '80s and was what got me interested in national Division III football in the first place.   So even though your guys spanked my guys, I have to thank W&J for something.  And we returned the favor in '02.   ;D
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on November 03, 2005, 11:31:37 AM
Week #9 Comparison

* ranking will be based on current QOWI w/in each loss column
@ - indicates teams eligible for Pool B bids
( ) NCAA South Region Ranking
AFCA Rankings updated as of Nov. 1   (N/R = not ranked)

"0" D-III LOSS TEAMS   with (overall w/l) (regional w/l) QOWI   (important games remaining)

1.  TRINITY (#1)                (7-0) (6-0)     11.50      D3 #9      AFCA#6       None
2.  THIEL @ (#4)                (8-0) (8-0)     11.00      D3 #16    AFCA#19    11/12                       at Carnegie Mellon
3.  FERRUM (#2)                 (8-0) (7-0)     10.29                   AFCA#23     11/12                      Christopher Newport

"1" D-III LOSS TEAMS

1.  WESLEY @ (#6)                (8-1) (5-0)   13.20                    N/R           None
2.  HARDIN-SIMMONS (#7)      (7-1) (6-1)   10.43      D3 #10    AFCA #11    11/12                      at Texas Lutheran       
3.  UMHB (#3)                      (6-1) (5-1)   10.33      D3# 5     AFCA #7      11/5                       McMurry
4.  JOHNS HOPKINS (#9)        (7-1) (6-1)     9.86                     N/R          11/5                      at Hampden-Sydney, 11/12 at McDaniel
5.  BRIDGEWATER (#5)          (6-1) (5-1)     9.67      D3 #18    AFCA #15    None
6.  HUNTINGDON @               (6-1) (5-1)     9.40                       N/R            11/5                      at Westminster (MO)
7.  WASH & JEFF @ (#8)       (8-1) (6-1)     8.86     D3 # 14   AFCA #17     11/5                       at Thomas More
8.  DEPAUW (#10)                (6-1) (5-1)     8.60                        N/R        11/5                        at Rose-Hulman, 11/12 Wabash



"2" D-III LOSS TEAMS

The "2-loss" in region teams look to basically be eliminated from Pool C consideration. There are currently 14 undefeated teams and 23 "1-loss" teams in D3 football. Should enough of these teams lose in the last 2 weeks I may revisit the "2-loss" group. For now I will list the most likely "2-loss" teams to get a Pool C and the 2 or more loss teams in the USA-South conference still alive for that Pool A bid.

Top "2-loss" Pool C candidates =  1. Salisbury               (6-2) (2-1) 12.00
                                              2. Hampden-Sydney   (6-2) (6-2)   9.75

USA-South Pool A =  Methodist  (6-2)
                            Christopher Newport  (5-3)



South Region (Pool A) Berths (Conference Champions w/ Auto-bids)

American Southwest Conference -
Centennial Conference -
Old Dominion Athletic Conference - Bridgewater
Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference -
USA South Athletic Conference -

* conference champions to be updated once official      


Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on November 03, 2005, 11:40:37 AM
OK the Week 9 chart is updated with current regional rankings. Was someone asleep at the wheel at the NCAA office again this week? ::)

Looks like HSU is the team not getting the love. Wesley after a big win over Salisbury jumped them in the regional ranking. Still a mystery, but now HSU can wonder how they are not only  behind BC but also Wesley. I know Wesley does have a higher QOWI so theoretically its BC's ranking which is in question. It looks a though whatever formula they used last week is still in place.

Also congrats to DePauw, if they can beat Rose-Hulman this week and Wabash in Week 11 they would definitely be a strong Pool C candidate. ;)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: spliskin on November 03, 2005, 11:58:25 AM
Llamaguy,

Good work as usual, but I suggest that the "important game" remaining for Thiel is 11/5 vs Buffalo State. Buffalo State plays an excruciating schedule as evidenced by their 20th ranked QOWI number of 10.333. 3 of their 4 losses came at the hands of nationally ranked teams (Ithica, Wesley, Salisbury). While CMU's QOWI is ranked #128 at 7.00. They've earned their 4-4 record over much easier competition. Additionally, Buff State upset Thiel in 2004 to knock them out of the postseason.

At this point in the season every game is important for poll B candidates, but it seems to me that BSU will be Thiel's toughest test remaining.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: PittTBCW on November 03, 2005, 11:59:11 AM
Why don't they seed the 3 Texas Teams 2,3, and either 6 or 7 so that noone has to travel to Texas except the opening round as long as all goes good and give Thiel and Ferrum 1 and 4. That way if the bracket plays out you have two game that make sence geographically speaking.


Just my opinion
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 03, 2005, 11:59:30 AM
Llama Guy,

You have Thiel playing Carnegie Mellon this week.  They play BUff St. at home this week and next week is Carnegie mellon at Mellon.....
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: PittTBCW on November 03, 2005, 12:02:32 PM
Quote from: spliskin on November 03, 2005, 11:58:25 AM
Llamaguy,

Good work as usual, but I suggest that the "important game" remaining for Thiel is 11/5 vs Buffalo State. Buffalo State plays an excruciating schedule as evidenced by their 20th ranked QOWI number of 10.333. 3 of their 4 losses came at the hands of nationally ranked teams (Ithica, Wesley, Salisbury). While CMU's QOWI is ranked #128 at 7.00. They've earned their 4-4 record over much easier competition. Additionally, Buff State upset Thiel in 2004 to knock them out of the postseason.

At this point in the season every game is important for poll B candidates, but it seems to me that BSU will be Thiel's toughest test remaining.


Without a doubt Thiel's biggest game this season is the one coming up this week vs Buff St.....then after that the biggest game of the season is @ Carnegie Mellon. If Thiel lets down either of the last two weeks it could spell disaster for the Tomcats as far as making the Playoffs. Buff State is by far a better team in my opinion then Mellon and I look forward to the matchup this weekend in Greenville. Thiel owes them for last year as mentioned and Buff St. like to play spoiler so I am sure it will be quite a contest this Saturday.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 03, 2005, 12:03:07 PM
LLama,

My bad important games left to play.....LOL I would say BUFF is just as big or bigger than Mellon.....
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 03, 2005, 12:04:12 PM
Quote from: spliskin on November 03, 2005, 11:58:25 AM
[...] I suggest that the "important game" remaining for Thiel is 11/5 vs Buffalo State. Buffalo State plays an excruciating schedule as evidenced by their 20th ranked QOWI number of 10.333. 3 of their 4 losses came at the hands of nationally ranked teams (Ithica, Wesley, Salisbury). [...]

The same Buffalo State team that lost to a club team (George Mason) 27-21 on Sept. 3?

Bridgewater beat Mason 45-0 on Sept. 24 ... they had/have like 40 players on their roster.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: PittTBCW on November 03, 2005, 12:09:19 PM
I did not look much at it Kid. I thought that Buff State was a pretty good team but if they lost to a club team I have to second guess my observation. Nice work!!!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 03, 2005, 12:12:39 PM
Quote from: PittTBCW on November 03, 2005, 11:59:11 AM
Why don't they seed the 3 Texas Teams 2,3, and either 6 or 7 so that noone has to travel to Texas except the opening round as long as all goes good and give Thiel and Ferrum 1 and 4. That way if the bracket plays out you have two game that make sence geographically speaking.


Again:  the seeds do not dictate travel.  The NCAA will adjust the games as necessary to minimize travel.   Geography trumps seeds.  

If there are three TX teams the brackets will be be adjusted to maximize the chance of them meeting in the first two rounds.  It happens that way every time there are three teams in an isolated geography.  

Taking the #1 seed away from a team for bogus "ease of travel" issues would be a total ripoff.  They should be able to host the regional final if it comes down to that.  If Theil or Ferrum merits the #1 by the AA's published policies, fine, but you cannot take a seed away for no reason.  
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 03, 2005, 12:38:02 PM
Thanks Ron for restating the Rules on Geographic Proximity!

I am glad to see all of this Angst concerning being flown to Texas.  ;D

Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: spliskin on November 03, 2005, 12:39:26 PM
Kid,

Buff State did not play a game on Sept 3rd (at least according to their schedule). Are we talking about the same team? BSU is in the AFCA conference. Their first game was Sept 10th. Maybe they scrimmaged George Mason and it is not listed. Is that what you're saying? Please extrapolate so I can understand.

Buff State schedule

9/10 vs Ithica L
9/17 vs Wesley L
9/24 vs Cortland St W
10/1 vs Frostburg St L
10/15 vs Salisbury L
10/22 vs Newport News W
10/29 vs Plymoth St W
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: spliskin on November 03, 2005, 12:42:54 PM
Sorry,

Make that "BSU competes in the ACFC conference"
Excuse my dislexia.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: miz on November 03, 2005, 12:44:24 PM
Quote from: spliskin on November 03, 2005, 12:39:26 PM
Kid,

Buff State did not play a game on Sept 3rd (at least according to their schedule). Are we talking about the same team? BSU is in the AFCA conference. Their first game was Sept 10th. Maybe they scrimmaged George Mason and it is not listed. Is that what you're saying? Please extrapolate so I can understand.

Buff State schedule

9/10 vs Ithica L
9/17 vs Wesley L
9/24 vs Cortland St W
10/1 vs Frostburg St L
10/15 vs Salisbury L
10/22 vs Newport News W
10/29 vs Plymoth St W

They didn't include it on official schedule b/c GM was a club team and it was essentially a scrimmage.  But they did play. 
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on November 03, 2005, 12:57:50 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 03, 2005, 12:38:02 PM

I am glad to see all of this Angst concerning being flown to Texas.  ;D



I believe the teams could care less. The fans who have to book all of their own trips is a whole different animal. Besides I prefer to see Texas in early December as opposed to Pre-Thanksgiving anyway. :D
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 03, 2005, 01:09:13 PM
Llamaguy,

It's good to be playing ANYBODY in December.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 03, 2005, 01:18:58 PM
Kid,

QuoteThe same Buffalo State team that lost to a club team (George Mason) 27-21 on Sept. 3?

Bridgewater beat Mason 45-0 on Sept. 24 ... they had/have like 40 players on their roster

A quote from BUFF St. coach on their season preview of their website:

QuoteJV PROGRAM: Buffalo State resurrected its junior varsity program last season and will play six games this year. The Bengals will host George Mason, Brockport, Ithaca, Niagara College, (Ont.), Allegheny and St. John Fisher. "Our junior varsity program is an excellent way for our young players to gain valuable game experience and hone their skills in a competitive atmosphere," said Shaffner.

That loss early in the season to George Mason is nullified by the fact that it was mainly played by their JVs and is now clear why they lost to the Club team from George Mason.


I have a feeling that game was more of a scrimmage and the JV got most of the playing time in that game Kid.  Not only it is the JV second year at Buff St.  More of a get the jitters out game and get ready for the real season.  Besides this game they have quality losses to and a solid win from:

1.Ithaca- Tied for first in the E8 and currently ranked 6th in the East Region at 8-1.
2.Wesley Tied for first in the E8 and currently ranked 6th in the South Region at 8-1
3. Salisbury- Who just recenetly lost its second game of the year to Wesly and was ranked 17th on D3 just last week

4. BUFF ST. beat a courtland St. team 27-20 that is tied for second in NJAC and played Rowan to a 24-16 finale. Rowan is the ranked fourth by d3 and also number one for the East Region Playoffs according to the NCAA.  Courtland is also getting considerations to be ranked on d3football.

The club loss to George Mason is pointless and should not be taken into consideration.  Not only that Buff St. is a PAC killer the last three years and has the most potential for killing their playoff aspirations.

Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 03, 2005, 01:22:01 PM
BOB Gregg knows very well the capabilities of Buff St with their 10-7 victory over them 2 years ago.

They beat Thiel last year to send them to their 3 loss of the season and without consideration for the big dance.  This team knows how to win late in the season and plays better in the cold, wind, snow, and they will be prepared to play!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on November 03, 2005, 01:45:16 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 03, 2005, 01:09:13 PM
Llamaguy,

It's good to be playing ANYBODY in December.

Excellent point Bob!

And Yes it will Be! ;D ;D (just kidding) or very hopeful that is
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 03, 2005, 01:52:31 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on November 03, 2005, 01:18:58 PM
Kid,

[...]

That loss early in the season to George Mason is nullified by the fact that it was mainly played by their JVs and is now clear why they lost to the Club team from George Mason.

[...]

Good catch!  Didn't know.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 03, 2005, 01:54:53 PM
Being a Thiel Alum I appreciate that Kid!

I understand your side completely.  By any chance though can i have some karma taken away from me though??
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: PittTBCW on November 03, 2005, 02:02:33 PM
Ron,

I keep forgeting that the NCAA can arrange a 1 vs 7 game or 1 vs 6 game in the first round or any round to make things easier on travel. No need for the bold though. And no I was not trying to say that Thiel deserves the top seed. I would say that Trinity is very deserving of a number one seed.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 03, 2005, 02:49:46 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on November 03, 2005, 01:22:01 PM
BOB Gregg knows very well the capabilities of Buff St with their 10-7 victory over them 2 years ago.

They beat Thiel last year to send them to their 3 loss of the season and without consideration for the big dance.  This team knows how to win late in the season and plays better in the cold, wind, snow, and they will be prepared to play!

Actually, Cartel, I don't know a thing about Buffalo State this year.  I know what they did to the Presidents two years ago, but since there is NO chance the two will meet in any forum this year, I haven't spent two seconds thinking about them (that is, after noting that the Bengals play one of the Pool B berth-seeking teams down the stretch).

What they did to W&J was greatly added by what W&J did to themselves in a set of circumstances I hope to never see repeated.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Dutch12 on November 03, 2005, 03:01:31 PM
Thiel also killed themselves last year against Buff State.  5 turnovers.  I think the starting QB (Satterfield) was injured as well. 
Title: South Region Playoff Watch-non standard questino
Post by: Bwana on November 03, 2005, 05:41:29 PM
Why are there no D3 football schools in the Deep South.  Generally speaking, I see few-even no-references to D# football programs in FL, AL, GA, MS, etc.  I know BC is scheduling against a new program in Georgia (the name escapes me)...

What is the reason?  D3 football programs seem fairly numerous in the rest of the country.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch-non standard questino
Post by: spliskin on November 03, 2005, 06:09:25 PM
Quote from: Bwana on November 03, 2005, 05:41:29 PM
I know BC is scheduling against a new program in Georgia (the name escapes me)...


LaGrange is the name you are looking for.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 03, 2005, 06:12:01 PM
Bwana, LaGrange is adding football.

First there are very few colleges playing NAIA football as well.

Secondly, there are fewer small colleges in the South.  The southern economy did not support the development of small colleges in the Post Civil War era as we saw in the North.

I can find one Methodist related college for about every annual conference (an ecclestical jurisdiction) in the South.   However, the denominational spread in the deep South was Methodist, Baptist and Presbyterian.  In the midwest you can add Brethren, Dutch Reformed, Congregational, Lutherans of all sorts, and Catholic, each of whom had their own colleges.  (Just check the charters!)

As for football, I think that the post-World War II years killed football on most campuses, e.g., Southwestern, Hendrix, Emory, Centenary LA.  SEC and SWC football were bigger.  Any surviving NAIA and pre-1973  Small College  are now D2.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: spliskin on November 03, 2005, 06:31:32 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 03, 2005, 02:49:46 PM
in a set of circumstances I hope to never see repeated.

Amen!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bwana on November 04, 2005, 10:26:10 AM
Ralph-

OK, I can see that...but as I consider your answer I have to think it may also have something to do with perceived educational necessity in the ante bellum period. 

Consider that in Virginia (not a big cotton state, more on that later) H-SC, WL, EH RMC, and Roanoke College all were founded  were founded prior to the American Civil War.  Bridgewater College was founded in 1870.  Almost all these schools had (and have) a connection to a religious denomination, and all kept going through reconstruction and to the present.

It strikes me that the real answer to my question is the ante bellum economy.  Virginia (for example) was a slave state but had perhaps a stronger mercantile tradition than some of the states farther south.  Note this was also a time when typically one needed to be affluent to attend college.

I know that in the cotton regions a strong primo genitur culture was in place.  The oldest male inherited the family farm/plantation, especially in the landed classes.  Typically the younger males either went to a military academy and then one of the service branches, while those next in line had a variety of options, but college was not generally among them (unless they could reach West Point, etc).

So I have to wonder if the reason is less that the Deep South couldn't support  small colleges, but that there were not a great deal of small colleges in existence to support...

Just a wandering thought...and one that I suppose will turn into my next private research effort!


Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 03, 2005, 06:12:01 PM

Secondly, there are fewer small colleges in the South.  The southern economy did not support the development of small colleges in the Post Civil War era as we saw in the North.

As for football, I think that the post-World War II years killed football on most campuses, e.g., Southwestern, Hendrix, Emory, Centenary LA.  SEC and SWC football were bigger.  Any surviving NAIA and pre-1973  Small College  are now D2.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: religion_major on November 04, 2005, 10:45:34 AM
Bwana,
Just a minor point of note, Bridgewater College was founded in 1880 not 1870.   :)
Title: Bwana
Post by: pakownr97 on November 04, 2005, 10:45:57 AM
Two points.

First, I don't mean to nitpick, but I think Bridgewater was founded in 1880.  I have a T-shirt that states so.

Secondly, and more importantly, I think it would be hilarious if Tusky were to moon Dr. Geisert.  I'd pay to see it.

;D
Title: Oops
Post by: pakownr97 on November 04, 2005, 10:51:15 AM
Religion_Major beat me to it.

But I still want to see someone moon Geisert.
Title: Re: Bwana
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 04, 2005, 12:34:19 PM
Quote from: pakownr97 on November 04, 2005, 10:45:57 AM
...Bridgewater was founded in 1880.  I have a T-shirt that states so....
The Bridgewater website agrees with your t-shirt.  Or is it the other way around?
Title: Re: Bwana
Post by: Bwana on November 04, 2005, 12:37:22 PM
Dang...fat fingered another one!  Of course it was 1880...they had the centennial celebration right in the middle of my time at BC.

As to Tusky mooning Dr. Geisert...just the thought is mind boggling!





Quote from: pakownr97 on November 04, 2005, 10:45:57 AM
Two points.

First, I don't mean to nitpick, but I think Bridgewater was founded in 1880.  I have a T-shirt that states so.

Secondly, and more importantly, I think it would be hilarious if Tusky were to moon Dr. Geisert.  I'd pay to see it.

;D
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 04, 2005, 01:13:18 PM
Bwana, good day!

The charters of many of those schools list the reason for their creation as the education of minister's of the Gospel.  I was surprised to see that Auburn's charter goes back to 1858 as a Methodist Episcopal Church, South institution before the state of Alabama took over the school about 1871.

I know that McMurry, founded in 1923, was the final successful attempt after 4 previous failures in west Texas beginning in 1881. Southwestern's name goes back to 1875, but the antecedent charters for one of the 4 colleges that were merged into Southwestern goes as far back as 1840.

No doubt the industrialization and wealth in the Midwest and Northeast had something to do with all of the institutions that were created in the post Civil War era.  (Gen Sam Houston opposed Texas' secession because he knew the extent of the industrialization of the North!  Also remember that Gen Chamberlain of Gettysburg fame became the president of Bowdoin.  http://www.curtislibrary.com/pejepscot/joshbiog.htm )

Finally, the population in the South lagged the north formany decades after the Civil War.  Only since the development of residential air-conditioning in the early 1950's (among ohter things)  can you see any rapid growth in the South. :)
Title: Bwana
Post by: pakownr97 on November 04, 2005, 02:36:11 PM
You old fart you.  You were at BC about the same time I was.  God bless you in your old age. 

;D
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bwana on November 04, 2005, 08:57:26 PM
No question about any of this...as a matter of fact, I think this information nicely  complements my speculation.

Without massive research, I think in the Deep South (think cotton and kudzu) there was not the same focus on a college education as in the upper south.  Of course, Texas was new to the Union and had not had the chance to establish the collegiate culture.  In the post bellum period the upper south, which had a greater mercantile base, was able to better support small colleges.  The lower south, with a greater focus on cotton, took years to come back.  In fact, I have read many books that suggest that the South as a region did not completely rebound from the Civil War until WWII.

I don't think we are in disagreement, I think we are examining different points on the same time line.


Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 04, 2005, 01:13:18 PM
Bwana, good day!

The charters of many of those schools list the reason for their creation as the education of minister's of the Gospel.  I was surprised to see that Auburn's charter goes back to 1858 as a Methodist Episcopal Church, South institution before the state of Alabama took over the school about 1871.

I know that McMurry, founded in 1923, was the final successful attempt after 4 previous failures in west Texas beginning in 1881. Southwestern's name goes back to 1875, but the antecedent charters for one of the 4 colleges that were merged into Southwestern goes as far back as 1840.

No doubt the industrialization and wealth in the Midwest and Northeast had something to do with all of the institutions that were created in the post Civil War era.  (Gen Sam Houston opposed Texas' secession because he knew the extent of the industrialization of the North!  Also remember that Gen Chamberlain of Gettysburg fame became the president of Bowdoin.  http://www.curtislibrary.com/pejepscot/joshbiog.htm )

Finally, the population in the South lagged the north formany decades after the Civil War.  Only since the development of residential air-conditioning in the early 1950's (among ohter things)  can you see any rapid growth in the South. :)
Title: Re: Bwana
Post by: Bwana on November 04, 2005, 09:02:07 PM
You would be right on all counts, and thank you for your kind thoughts.  We are of that lucky ilk who had the pleasure of being able to attend Flagpole locally and Easters-The Biggest Party on the East Coast-down in C'Ville.

I can only hope your old age is serving well...and if not I can bring the crazed Pole down from NYC and have him chase you around the block a few times. 

Nothing like a crazed teamster coming after you to boost  your heart rate!

Quote from: pakownr97 on November 04, 2005, 02:36:11 PM
You old fart you.  You were at BC about the same time I was.  God bless you in your old age. 

;D
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: narch on November 04, 2005, 11:45:25 PM
nc isn't the "deep south", but it has always amazed me how many d2 schools there are (and some very good d2 football programs, to boot) - the concept of d2 just escapes me - i understand (but don't agree with) the d1 philosophy of fully subsidizing athletes (primarily for the financial gain of the institution), but d2 makes little sense to me...if you can't fully subsidize, why bother at all? take that same $$$ you are spending on athletic scholly's, throw it into a need-based financial aid system and go d3 rather than trying to pretend that you're almost as good as the d1's

oh yeah...this is the playoff watch forum...ferrum shouldn't be the #2 seed in the south, and they will get exposed either this week or next or, hopefully for monarch fans, both :)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Jamnqb10 on November 05, 2005, 10:04:37 AM
Narch
You might be right, FC could get exposed today or next week. That is always a possibility (But unlikely)  We all know they are working a weak division.  But obviously someone thinks they deserve to be ranked 2nd.  Thats the GREAT thing about DIII vs DI, the playoff system will truly tell us who deserves to be where.   Good luck to the Monarchs today!

BlackHats Forever!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on November 05, 2005, 06:43:31 PM
Early scenario post Week 10:

South Region Round 1:

#1 Trinity hosts #6 Hardin-Simmons
#2 Ferrum hosts #5 Bridgewater
#3 UMHB Hosts #7 DePauw
#4 Thiel host #8 Johns Hopkins


More to come once the rest of results are analyzed. Now I need sleep. LOL!

* obviously in this scenario W&J & Wesley head to the East bracket.

Any thoughts? ???
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 05, 2005, 06:46:10 PM
Llamaguy, DePauw must defeat Wabash in the Monon Bell game.

Wabash is in great shape to get the #1 seed in the North.

I still haven't penciled DPU into a Pool C bid.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on November 05, 2005, 06:49:08 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 05, 2005, 06:46:10 PM
Llamaguy, DePauw must defeat Wabash in the Monon Bell game.

Wabash is in great shape to get the #1 seed in the North.

I still haven't penciled DPU into a Pool C bid.


But it sure would make the NCAA happy now wouldn't it? South Region without a flight until the finals. ;)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: religion_major on November 05, 2005, 06:51:20 PM
Question on the table: Would the NCAA respect confrence games for a pool B confrence the way that it does for a pool A?  Would they still try to avoid a first round matchup between members of the same pool B confrence?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 05, 2005, 07:32:17 PM
Religion Major, I think that they would avoid a rematch until the 2nd round regardless of the nature of the game, conference, in-region, rivalry game, non-conference game.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 05, 2005, 09:23:19 PM
Assuming everyone wins out that is supposed to, I think Lamaguy's prediction is right on.  Pat's intimation that John Carroll might sneak into the south bracket earlier this week was interesting and plausible, but I don't think the OAC is going to get two in now that all the second place teams have two in-conference losses.

The only one I might question is DePauw, but they could also go into the north bracket quite easily.  We'll see.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 05, 2005, 09:50:32 PM
Quote from: Llamaguy on November 05, 2005, 06:49:08 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 05, 2005, 06:46:10 PM
Llamaguy, DePauw must defeat Wabash in the Monon Bell game.

Wabash is in great shape to get the #1 seed in the North.

I still haven't penciled DPU into a Pool C bid.


But it sure would make the NCAA happy now wouldn't it? South Region without a flight until the finals. ;)

It's a flight from DePauw to UMHB.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bwana on November 05, 2005, 10:44:24 PM
Maybe this is in the FAQ-if so, pls don't flame me.

Typically when you have an 8-team/person field, you get the initial draw and then the winners of 1v8 and 4v5 play each other, and the winners of 2v7 and 3v6 the same.

Due to the travel expenses involved, the fact that some facilities are lacking, or a team did not put in paperwork to host a home game, are there any constraints such as that in the D3 field, especially after the first round? 

Is it really just a matter of each round pick the best travel arrangements while avoiding rematches in the first round, then repair after the first round?

After the initial field is selected, what rules or restrictions are in place for the remaining rounds?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on November 05, 2005, 10:55:51 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 05, 2005, 09:50:32 PM

It's a flight from DePauw to UMHB.

Rut Rooo!  ;D But a much closer flight than anyone from the Middle Atlantic. And no more driving to Ferrum for John Carroll. Its going to be quite a tough job for the NCAA committee this year. Someone or ones will be left out even with 4 extra spots. Wow!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 06, 2005, 01:25:09 AM
Quote from: Bwana on November 05, 2005, 10:44:24 PM
Maybe this is in the FAQ-if so, pls don't flame me.

Typically when you have an 8-team/person field, you get the initial draw and then the winners of 1v8 and 4v5 play each other, and the winners of 2v7 and 3v6 the same.

Due to the travel expenses involved, the fact that some facilities are lacking, or a team did not put in paperwork to host a home game, are there any constraints such as that in the D3 field, especially after the first round? 

Is it really just a matter of each round pick the best travel arrangements while avoiding rematches in the first round, then repair after the first round?

After the initial field is selected, what rules or restrictions are in place for the remaining rounds?


They do not repair after the first round. The brackets are set.

Sometimes teams that are seeded to host do not file their paperwork (Bridgewater did this once) or do not have a sufficient facility to host a game (has happened to John Carroll, Carthage and Wesley). Also, sometimes the traditional 1-8/4-5; 2-7/3-6 format is broken up for travel purposes, to avoid extra airplane flights.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on November 06, 2005, 07:00:46 AM
Taken from the Play-off Projection page. Any Thoughts?

Quote from: eh ... just call me 'kid' on October 25, 2005, 05:28:15 pm
There are currently threads for Pool B bids, Pool C bids, the West Playoff Bracket, and the South Region Playoff Watch.

I just figured this could be the place to "put it all together."

After reading through the aforementioned threads, here is my best attempt:

Linfield Bracket (West)                       UW-Whitewater Bracket (North)
Central/Coe C                                     Albion/Alma/Hope A
Central/Coe/Wartburg A                        Aurora/Concordia/Lakeland A
Concordia-Moorhead/St. Olaf C              Augustana/North Central A
Linfield B                                              Mount Union C
Monmouth A                                        Mt. St. Joseph A
Occidental A                                        Ohio Northern A
St. John's A                                          UW-Whitewater A
Whitworth C                                        Wabash A
     
Rowan Bracket (East)                         Trinity (TX) Bracket (South)
Alfred/St. John Fisher C                          Bridgewater/Wash. & Lee A
Curry/Fitchburg St. A                            CNU/Ferrum/Methodist A
Delaware Valley A                                   Hardin-Simmons A
DePauw/Huntingdon C                            Johns Hopkins A
Hobart/Union A                                      Mary-Hardin Baylor C
Ithaca A                                                Salisbury/Wesley B
Rowan A                                               Thiel B
Wash. & Jeff. B                                       Trinity (TX) A

Your thoughts?





The Kid knows Playoff Projections!

Here are my thoughts after 2 weeks of results:

A few updates and a win by DePauw (which will be tough) and the brackets pretty much fall in line. Depauw switches to the South while Wesley moves East. Whitworth loses its spot to W&J, W&J heads North. UW-Whitewater moves back into the West while North Central takes the C bid and fills out the North bracket.

Last teams left out:

1) Cal Lutheran
2) Huntingdon

East: (No Longer Rowan) Del Val? Bracket             West:  Linfield Bracket
St John Fischer (C)                                               Central/Coe (A)
Curry/Fitchburg St. (A)                                           Central/Coe (C)
Delaware Valley (A)                                               Con-Moor (C)
Wesley (B)                                                            Linfield (B)
Union (A)                                                              Monmouth (A)
Ithica (A)                                                              Occidental (A)
Rowan (A)?                                                           St. John's (A)
Hobart/RPI (C)                                                      UW-Whitewater (A)


North: Mt Union (dang-it) Bracket                         South: Trinity (TX) Bracket
Albion (A)                                                            Bridgewater (A)
Lakeland (A)                                                         Ferrum (A)
Augustana (A)                                                      Hardin-Simmons (A)
North Central (C)                                                  UMHB (C)
Mt Union (A)                                                        Johns Hopkins (A)
Mt St, Joseph (A)                                                 Trinity (A)
Wabash (A)                                                         Thiel (B)
Washington & Jefferson (B)                                     DePauw (C)

Note: I could also see DePauw in the North with Wash & Jeff. staying in the South. Geographical decision for the NCAA to make.

*** Should DePauw lose to Wabash, I see the Committee having to decide between Cal Lutheran and a (2-loss) Capital.
   * If its Capital, they stay in the North, Wabash gets top seed over Mt. Union. W&J moves back South.
    **If its Cal Lutheran, Whitewater moves North and W&J back to the South.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 06, 2005, 11:11:49 AM
Should DePauw lose to Wabash, then Huntingdon will get the same or more consideration than Cal Lutheran and a 2-loss OAC team.

Every one of Cal Lutheran's wins has come against a team that is currently .500 or WORSE.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bwana on November 06, 2005, 11:17:49 AM
Pat-

Gracias, mi amigo!

Explanation from Brother Coleman:
They do not repair after the first round. The brackets are set.

Sometimes teams that are seeded to host do not file their paperwork (Bridgewater did this once) or do not have a sufficient facility to host a game (has happened to John Carroll, Carthage and Wesley). Also, sometimes the traditional 1-8/4-5; 2-7/3-6 format is broken up for travel purposes, to avoid extra airplane flights.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on November 06, 2005, 11:48:32 AM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on November 06, 2005, 11:11:49 AM
Should DePauw lose to Wabash, then Huntingdon will get the same or more consideration than Cal Lutheran and a 2-loss OAC team.

Every one of Cal Lutheran's wins has come against a team that is currently .500 or WORSE.

Good Point Josh. I have to admit that I am basing that strictly on QOWI.
Cal Lutheran 9.750  Huntingdon 8.600

Not to mention if Cal Lutheran gets in then the NCAA can split up the top 3 teams in the country by moving UW-Whitewater to the North.

Just my two-cents. ???
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: enzoneking6 on November 06, 2005, 12:41:03 PM
i hope the playoffs this year consist of 1 v.8,2 v. 7, 3 v. 6, and so on because it seem like that NCAA is being cheap with d-3 football.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on November 06, 2005, 12:48:02 PM
Quote from: enzoneking6 on November 06, 2005, 12:41:03 PM
i hope the playoffs this year consist of 1 v.8,2 v. 7, 3 v. 6, and so on because it seem like that NCAA is being cheap with d-3 football.

And that is why the D3 National Championship game has an 11 a.m. Eastern slot with ESPN.
That is life in D3 land. ;)

No TV revenue = no voice for change.
Title: New Poll
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 06, 2005, 02:20:56 PM
New poll posted.


Previous Question: Of the teams in Pat Coleman's south region projection, who would likely be the south's semis rep?
Bridgewater (Va.) - 8 (13.1%)
Ferrum - 4 (6.6%)
Hardin-Simmons - 10 (16.4%)
John Carroll - 0 (0%)
Johns Hopkins - 4 (6.6%)
Mary Hardin-Baylor - 22 (36.1%)
Thiel - 3 (4.9%)
Trinity (Texas) - 10 (16.4%)
   
Total Votes: 61
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 06, 2005, 02:29:54 PM
Quote from: Llamaguy on November 06, 2005, 12:48:02 PM
Quote from: enzoneking6 on November 06, 2005, 12:41:03 PM
i hope the playoffs this year consist of 1 v.8,2 v. 7, 3 v. 6, and so on because it seem like that NCAA is being cheap with d-3 football.

And that is why the D3 National Championship game has an 11 a.m. Eastern slot with ESPN.
That is life in D3 land. ;)

No TV revenue = no voice for change.

Actually, there's good news -- the game is at 1 p.m. this year.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 06, 2005, 02:31:41 PM
One reason I hate QoWI is that it tends to make people overlook minor little things like losses.  Want to get blown out and still make the playoffs, and have a good seed?  Just lose to someone outside of your region.  Little things like 47-0 out-of-region shellackings don't show up in the QoWI. 

While I *think* Huntingdon should get consideration if DPU loses, I fear they will not.  The combination of being relatively unknown and the fact that they only played 8 D-I games this year are going to be hard to overcome.   That and one of their better wins of the season, yesterday at Westminster (Mo), won't show up in the QoWI because ... it's out of region.  Sigh.   Westminster's a lot closer to Montgomery than San Antonio, but the loss to Trinity counts and the W against Westminster does not.   
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 06, 2005, 03:14:57 PM
Well, let me ask a question based on Bonzo's last post...

Exactly what does qualify as a regional contest?  I was under the impression that the main criteria was that it had to be within 500 miles.  If that were the case, Wesley's 47-0 loss to Brockport should count as in-region, owing to the fact that they're 425 (appx.) miles apart.

However, games between several ASC routinely exceed the 500 mile limit, yet are counted as in-region contests.  SRSU to MC is over 800 miles by itself!

I think I'd personally like QOWI as an indicator better if it either A)  counted all conference games by default or B)  got rid of the regional basis--which I don't understand in the first place--and counted all games against DIII competition.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 06, 2005, 03:23:59 PM
Everyone gets stuck in a region, and there's no geographic limit on the size of a region.  That's why you have the MIAC and WIAC in the west along with the west coast teams, Texas in with teams from Penna and Indiana, etc... you know that Josh, but some other folks new to D3 might wonder.   All conference games are in-region by default, too (that's why all SCAC teams are South). 

Games between teams in different regions are considered "in region" only if the two are separated by 200 or fewer miles.  That's a great model for teams in the N and E region but not those in the W and S.  I have been agitating for a removal of the "regional" distinction for years now.  They're all D3 games, let 'em count as such. 
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on November 06, 2005, 03:50:24 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 06, 2005, 02:29:54 PM
Quote from: Llamaguy on November 06, 2005, 12:48:02 PM
Quote from: enzoneking6 on November 06, 2005, 12:41:03 PM
i hope the playoffs this year consist of 1 v.8,2 v. 7, 3 v. 6, and so on because it seem like that NCAA is being cheap with d-3 football.

And that is why the D3 National Championship game has an 11 a.m. Eastern slot with ESPN.
That is life in D3 land. ;)

No TV revenue = no voice for change.

Actually, there's good news -- the game is at 1 p.m. this year.

Thanks for that info Pat!!!! Stone Station won't have to set-up at 6 a.m. in the parkinglot this year. We will definitely be there with bells on though.  ;D
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 06, 2005, 04:46:23 PM
Josh, the handbook lists the teams by region.  In addition, a game is also  designated as an in-region game, if the schools from different regions are within a 200 mile radius as determend by Microsoft Streets and Trips.

The 200 mile radius rule does not apply within the region.  Sul Ross and Wesley are still South Region teams, and DePauw is South Region by virtue of its membership in the SCAC.

DePauw, in Greencastle IN in the midst of the North Region Conferences' NCAC and the HCAC,  also gets to count any game within the 200 mile radius of Greencastle, including Wabash. :)

http://www.ncaa.org/library/handbooks/football/2005/2005_d3_football_handbook.pdf
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 06, 2005, 08:50:34 PM
I guess I should clarify.  My main question is why aren't all schools in the same conference slotted in the same region (read Wesley and Brockport State)?   Wesley's non-conference game versus DePauw game counted as an in-region game, but the conference blowout they suffered at the hands of Brockport State doesn't?  Furthermore, four of the six ACFC schools are already in the south evaluative region.

That makes exactly zero sense.  If DePauw is a de facto member of the south region vis a vis their conference affiliation, then the Brockport game ought to be a de facto in-region game for Wesley.

Opining on a Sunday evening...
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 06, 2005, 09:37:08 PM
Josh, the ACFC is not an officially recognized conference. :)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 06, 2005, 09:42:48 PM
Then why aren't the teams considered independents?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: religion_major on November 06, 2005, 10:13:28 PM
Josh,
In the NCAA's opinion the ACFC is merely a way for independent football teams to schedule games.  The NCAA couldn't care less if Salisbury plays Brockport as a part of the ACFC or not.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 06, 2005, 11:33:22 PM
Josh, according to the Handbook, they are independents.  I am not sure if the ACFC has any type of membership status in the NCAA.

What the ACFC does is give these independents 5 games, and next year 4 games, and a way to acknowledge performances, e.g., Conference champs, all-Conference, POTW.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 07, 2005, 08:36:36 AM
Gotcha.  Thanks.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: d3fbalumn on November 07, 2005, 09:16:00 PM
Llamaguy,

Any thoughts yet on south region rankings and/or pairings given the changes in QOWI since this weekends games?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on November 08, 2005, 12:06:11 AM
Quote from: d3fbalumn on November 07, 2005, 09:16:00 PM
Llamaguy,

Any thoughts yet on south region rankings and/or pairings given the changes in QOWI since this weekends games?

I'll update the QOWI w/ ACFA rankings tomorrow. But bottomline it really comes down to does the South get 9 or 10 teams in? A DePauw win over Wabash puts them in as a Pool C and the 10th South Region Team. If they are in, W&J & Wesley move to the East Bracket. If Depauw loses then W&J stays in the South unless Huntingdon squeeks in, which I doubt.

Scenario #1 (DePauw is in)

First Rd:
Trinity hosts Hardin-Simmons
UMHB hosts DePauw
Ferrum hosts Bridgewater
Thiel hosts Johns Hopkins



Scenario #2 (Depauw is out)

First Rd:
Trinity hosts Hardin-Simmons
UMHB hosts Johns Hopkins
Ferrum hosts W&J
Thiel hosts Bridgewater
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on November 08, 2005, 01:14:24 AM
Week #10 Comparison

* ranking will be based on current QOWI w/in each loss column
@ - indicates teams eligible for Pool B bids
( ) NCAA South Region Ranking (will be updated again Wednesday)
AFCA Rankings  (Updated Nov. 8th) 

"0" D-III LOSS TEAMS   with (overall w/l) (regional w/l) QOWI   

1.  THIEL @ (#4)                 (9-0) (9-0)     11.33      D3 #17     AFCA#18
2.  TRINITY (#1)                 (8-0) (7-0)      11.14      D3 #9      AFCA#6       
3.  FERRUM (#2)                  (9-0) (8-0)     10.38                    AFCA#21     

"1" D-III LOSS TEAMS

1.  WESLEY @ (#6)                (9-1) (5-0)   12.80      D3 #25
2.  UMHB (#3)                       (7-1) (6-1)   10.29      D3 #4      AFCA#4                           
3.  HARDIN-SIMMONS (#7)      (8-1) (7-1)   10.13      D3 #8       AFCA#9                                                  4.  BRIDGEWATER (#5)           (7-1) (6-1)     9.71      D3 #18     AFCA#13
     DEPAUW (#10)                 (7-1) (6-1)     9.71
6.  WASH & JEFF @ (#8)         (9-1) (7-1)     9.38      D3 #16     AFCA#17   
7.  HUNTINGDON @                (7-1) (4-1)     8.60                       
     
                   

"2" D-III LOSS TEAMS

1.  JOHNS HOPKINS (#9)           (7-2) (6-2)     9.25    (Pool A USA-South bid)   
               

The "2-loss" in South Region teams look to basically be eliminated from Pool C consideration. It looks a though if any Pool C teams get in with 2-losses it will be an Ohio Athletic conference team. (Capital,John Carroll,ONU) It is a reach to think that even one of these will get into the field.


South Region Games Nov. (12th) (that could affect seedings or bids)
Thiel at Carnegie Mellon
Christopher Newport at Ferrum
Hardin-Simmons at Texas Lutheran
Wabash at DePauw

*note: There are other teams with seeding implications but barring a major upset, they should win or in Johns Hopkins case would hold their 8th seed even with a loss this weekend.



South Region (Pool A) Berths (Conference Champions w/ Auto-bids)

American Southwest Conference -
Centennial Conference - Johns Hopkins
Old Dominion Athletic Conference - Bridgewater
Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference -
USA South Athletic Conference - Ferrum

* conference champions to be updated once official   
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: d3fbalumn on November 08, 2005, 07:44:58 AM
Thanks Llamaguy,

It sounds like you believe that W&J will get in regardless of what happens at the Bell game. It is a question of whether W&J gets placed in the South or the East region. Am I reading that right?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on November 08, 2005, 08:12:56 AM
Yes that is my take. The only way I see them not getting in is if Willamette shocks the D3 world and beats Linfield this weekend. I don't see Willamette getting in with 4 regional wins and losses to other divisions that Linfield beat handily. W&J takes the last Pool B spot.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 08, 2005, 08:30:47 AM
Llamaguy,  what are the key games this week for bids and seeding?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 08, 2005, 08:49:24 AM
I'd think the main "seeding" game is CNU/Ferrum.  Ferrum already has the conference title, but CNU--at least earlier in the season--was considered the front-runner.  Ferrum's QOWI is already much lower than the top 2, and a loss would likely knock them down to the very low 10.0s-9.9s range in that category.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on November 08, 2005, 08:52:12 AM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on November 08, 2005, 08:30:47 AM
Llamaguy,  what are the key games this week for bids and seeding?

South Region Games Nov. (12th) (that could affect seedings or bids)
Thiel at Carnegie Mellon
Christopher Newport at Ferrum
Hardin-Simmons at Texas Lutheran
Wabash at DePauw

*note: There are other teams with seeding implications but barring a major upset, they should win or in Johns Hopkins case would hold their 8th seed even with a loss this weekend.

Ferrum & Thiel will be playing to host a first rd game.
HSU to win the ASC Pool A and get into the playoffs.
DePauw to get the last Pool C spot. (Oh, and to ring that bell for another year)  ;D
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: DPU_radio_guy on November 08, 2005, 03:52:33 PM
Quote from: Llamaguy on November 08, 2005, 12:06:11 AM

I'll update the QOWI w/ ACFA rankings tomorrow. But bottomline it really comes down to does the South get 9 or 10 teams in? A DePauw win over Wabash puts them in as a Pool C and the 10th South Region Team. If they are in, W&J & Wesley move to the East Bracket. If Depauw loses then W&J stays in the South unless Huntingdon squeeks in, which I doubt.

Scenario #1 (DePauw is in)

First Rd:
Trinity hosts Hardin-Simmons
UMHB hosts DePauw
Ferrum hosts Bridgewater
Thiel hosts Johns Hopkins

Quote

Llamaguy,
Do you think that if DPU gets in, they get shipped to the North?  I find it hard to believe that they'd ship the Tigers all the way to UMHB.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on November 08, 2005, 05:11:51 PM
It will be a tough call for the NCAA. The West & The South regions are where the overflow of playoff teams will come from this year. DPU could move North if they could find enough other North or South teams to fill out the East. Bottomlime is someone will have to fly to UMHB. The question is, will it be DPU or someone from the Mid Atlantic in the South region? Hopefully come Saturday afternoon you will be excitedly awaiting where your boys get to play an extra weekend of football in '05!  ;)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 09, 2005, 08:45:08 AM
Any potential surprises we might look for this weekend from the selection committee?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bwana on November 09, 2005, 08:47:27 AM
Llamaguy-

Since I like to "scenario rosily", and following your predictions below, what is your best playoff guess if CNU defeats Ferrum this Saturday?  Same teams go, but BC hosts first round game?


Scenario #1 (DePauw is in)

First Rd:
Trinity hosts Hardin-Simmons
UMHB hosts DePauw
Ferrum hosts Bridgewater
Thiel hosts Johns Hopkins

Quote

Llamaguy,
Do you think that if DPU gets in, they get shipped to the North?  I find it hard to believe that they'd ship the Tigers all the way to UMHB.
Quote
Title: New Poll
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 09, 2005, 09:39:11 AM
New poll posted.


Previous Question: Which South Region team is least likely to make the playoffs?

DePauw - 13 (29.5%)
Huntingdon - 27 (61.4%)
Washington & Jefferson - 3 (6.8%)
Wesley - 1 (2.3%)
 
Total Votes: 44
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 09, 2005, 10:27:08 AM
I hope the NCAA puts HSU at Trinity and DePauw at UMHB.  ASC vs SCAC.  Texas Sub regional.  Makes a lot of sense in my mind.  Probably won't work then. :)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on November 09, 2005, 12:22:47 PM



You are right on Bwana.

There are still alot of what ifs though. It really comes down to  how many South region teams head East and who flys to Texas.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: sthrncwby on November 09, 2005, 02:03:16 PM
Llamaguy, I know in the past they have put teams in different regions.  Who makes that call and why not just take the best 32 teams and randomly select who plays.  The higher rank gets home field.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 09, 2005, 02:24:10 PM
This today in the newspaper closest to the BC Eagles:

"senior wide receiver Brian Awkard expressed his preference for a distant road game if a home game were impossible.

"If we didn't [play at home], it'd be nice to fly to Texas," Awkard said. "If we had to go somewhere, I'd rather fly somewhere and feel like a professional rather than riding on a long bus somewhere.""

Just thought you Texans should know that not everyone wants to avoid ya'll...just all of us that don't get our plane tickets paid for by a school :)



Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: tTU719803 on November 09, 2005, 03:20:49 PM
I'd love to see another Bridgewater - Trinity matchup.  Those 3 games in that 3 year span were some of the best football I have ever seen.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on November 09, 2005, 03:28:26 PM
Quote from: sthrncwby on November 09, 2005, 02:03:16 PM
Llamaguy, I know in the past they have put teams in different regions.  Who makes that call and why not just take the best 32 teams and randomly select who plays.  The higher rank gets home field.

The Regional Committee will rank their Top 10's Saturday evening after the games and send them to the NCAA Nat'l Committee. The Nat'l Committee will take that info, Pick their 32 teams and adjust for regions that have less than 8 qualifiers with overflow from other regions. Then they seed them but more importantly decide on 1st Rd match-ups based on what is cheapest travelwise for the NCAA.

As for the Top 32, the NCAA has 21 conferences who have automatic bids into the tounament. Unfortunately some of those automatic qualifiers are never in the Top 32. Thus without removing the auto-qualifiers, you will never see the best 32 teams duke it out. ;)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: miz on November 09, 2005, 05:30:02 PM
Quote from: ttu719803 on November 09, 2005, 03:20:49 PM
I'd love to see another Bridgewater - Trinity matchup.  Those 3 games in that 3 year span were some of the best football I have ever seen.

They were great games.  Now just lose to Millsaps and we'll see ya' next Saturday ;)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on November 09, 2005, 05:41:12 PM
Regional Rankings are out:

South
1. Trinity (Texas) 7-0 8-0
2. Ferrum 9-0 9-0
3. Thiel 9-0 9-0
4. Mary Hardin-Baylor 6-1 7-1
5. Wesley 6-0 9-1
6. Bridgewater (Virginia) 6-1 7-1
7. Washington and Jefferson 7-1 9-1
8. Hardin-Simmons 7-1 8-1
9. DePauw 6-1 7-1
10. Hampden-Sydney 7-2 7-2


Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: pakownr97 on November 09, 2005, 06:05:47 PM
Quote from: ttu719803 on November 09, 2005, 03:20:49 PM
I'd love to see another Bridgewater - Trinity matchup.  Those 3 games in that 3 year span were some of the best football I have ever seen.

TTU,

Did you see the 2001 game at Bridgewater?  That was the greatest football game I've ever seen at any level.

Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 09, 2005, 06:15:21 PM
Quote from: ttu719803 on November 09, 2005, 03:20:49 PM
I'd love to see another Bridgewater - Trinity matchup.  Those 3 games in that 3 year span were some of the best football I have ever seen.

Phew ... got that right!

2000: TU 47 - BC 41 (ot)
2001: BC 41 - TU 37
2002: TU 38 - BC 32


Scoring by Quarters (combined):


1st2nd3rd4th
BC13274034
TU21323732

(overtime TD by TU counted in 4th qtr pts)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on November 09, 2005, 06:28:46 PM
Looks like Capital will get a Pool C bid with 2 losses. They are ranked #5 in the North region this week. ;)

New South Region prediction:

1st Rd:

Hardin-Simmons at Trinity
Johns Hopkins at UMHB
Capital at Thiel
Bridgewater at Ferrum
(Would reverse sites if Ferrum loses to CNU)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: tTU719803 on November 09, 2005, 09:20:45 PM
Yes, saw all 3 of them.  I agree, the '01 game (despite the outcome) was the best college football game I have ever seen, a close winner over the '02 game. 

That '01 game was a matchup of, in my opinion, 2 of the best 3 teams that season.  You put them, BC, and Mount in a round-robin and who knows what happens.  That Trinity team was better than the '02 team in my opinion.

I can still picture Lutz slipping a near sack by Doran to throw the game winner... ugh.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 09, 2005, 10:23:16 PM
 I understand all the quirks of the of the playoff pairings. But If Wesley is ranked 5th in the South where would you put them in the East? Unfortunately the way the rankings look they are planning on sending them to Texas again... or will they keep them in the East?
   
Quote from: Llamaguy on November 09, 2005, 06:28:46 PM
Looks like Capital will get a Pool C bid with 2 losses. They are ranked #5 in the North region this week. ;)

New South Region prediction:

1st Rd:

Hardin-Simmons at Trinity
Johns Hopkins at UMHB
Capital at Thiel
Bridgewater at Ferrum
(Would reverse sites if Ferrum loses to CNU)

Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Hawks88 on November 09, 2005, 10:37:04 PM
So with 2 loss Hampden-Sydney ranked 10th in the south does that mean that Huntingdon is even farther from consideration than previously thought?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 09, 2005, 10:48:23 PM
How 'bout HSU winning each of the last two weeks and continuing to drop in the regional poll. 

What a joke.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: PittTBCW on November 09, 2005, 11:12:53 PM
I think this week will still have alot to decide in the whole playoff picture. Upsets can happen and etc that will make a major mix up possible. I am looking forward to playoff time I can tell you that much!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 10, 2005, 10:04:45 AM
Josh,  I agree with you.  That doesn't make any sense.  Didn't UMHB drop from 3rd to 4th?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: PittTBCW on November 10, 2005, 10:35:12 AM
My only guess is that since Thiel is undefeated they put the 3 undefeated teams in the top 3 slots. That would be my only guess.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 10, 2005, 10:38:51 AM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on November 09, 2005, 10:48:23 PM
How 'bout HSU winning each of the last two weeks and continuing to drop in the regional poll. 

What a joke.

It makes sense if you just look at those 2 weeks (in-region undefeated Wesley passing HSU, then W&J after W&J beat a +.500 team while HSU beat a 1-8 squad).

Just looking at that...that makes sense.  But looking at the actual criteria, I don't see why W&J passed HSU.

The only thing I can guess is the primary criteria "In region results vs regionally ranked opponents."  It doesn't say record.  It says results, which could be interpreted to mean that the final score does matter (UMHB 38 - HSU 7, Thiel 38 - W&J 35 OT)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 10, 2005, 10:39:57 AM
Or QOWI.
Title: New Poll
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 10, 2005, 11:09:45 AM
New poll posted.


Previous Question: Which current south region first round host is more likely to get upset this weekend?

Ferrum [vs Christopher Newport (5-4)] - 36 (75%)
Mary Hardin-Baylor [at Austin (1-8)] - 2 (4.2%)
Thiel [at Carnegie Mellon (5-4)] - 8 (16.7%)
Trinity (TX) [vs Millsaps (2-6)] - 2 (4.2%)
 
Total Votes: 48
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: PittTBCW on November 10, 2005, 12:18:01 PM
The more I look at things a 10-0 Thiel team should be the number 2 seed in the south region. They are going to be 10-0 in region, zero losses, strength of schedule is better, and Thiel beat W&J, which is what gives them the edge on Ferrum.

Just my opinion.

It may be a little biased...sorry
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 10, 2005, 12:39:31 PM
Quote from: PittTBCW on November 10, 2005, 12:18:01 PM
The more I look at things a 10-0 Thiel team should be the number 2 seed in the south region. They are going to be 10-0 in region, zero losses, strength of schedule is better, and Thiel beat W&J, which is what gives them the edge on Ferrum.

Just my opinion.

It may be a little biased...sorry

If you really look at the criteria, and just follow the criteria, Thiel should be the #1 seed.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Hug on November 10, 2005, 02:37:32 PM
This may be the best poll you've posted, I eventually voted for Wesley vs. UMHB.

I like these pairings with one exception. The committee will send Wesley to Thiel and UJH to UMHB. The committee will see UJH as no threat to UMHB, thus insuring a second round bus trip game. on the other hand Wesley could give UMHB a hand full, committee will not chance that.

On a side not Wesley jumping BC in the regional rankings is huge. If BC goes to Ferrum and wins and Wesley goes to Thiel and wins, Wesley would be the higher seed for the second round match-up, ouch!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: narch on November 10, 2005, 03:16:27 PM
this may be old news, but has wesley improved their facilities enough to host an ncaa playoff game? again, they may have made some improvements over the last few years...it's been a while since i've been there, but the last time i went the field wasn't appropriate for middle school games, much less playoff football - never stopped wesley from getting some monster athletes, though :)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: abnrgr on November 10, 2005, 03:53:23 PM
Narch
Should have seen those Wolverine facilities  in 1976. I cannot remember any stands that were not drug in but they were a good team
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Jamnqb10 on November 10, 2005, 04:46:20 PM
Quote from: mizzou_mofia on November 10, 2005, 12:39:31 PM
Quote from: PittTBCW on November 10, 2005, 12:18:01 PM
The more I look at things a 10-0 Thiel team should be the number 2 seed in the south region. They are going to be 10-0 in region, zero losses, strength of schedule is better, and Thiel beat W&J, which is what gives them the edge on Ferrum.

Just my opinion.

It may be a little biased...sorry

I honestly dont think it matters at this point.  You better bring your "A" game no matter who you play and what thier rank is.  This is DIII and our championships are decided on the field not by a computer.  If Theil is due a #1 ranking, it will show soon enough.
Go BlackHats!!!



Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: @d3jason on November 10, 2005, 05:03:01 PM
Narch---

Wesley has upgraded their facilities tremendously. New field turf, pressbox, messaging scoreboard, lights and visitors stands.  It would be an excellent place to host a tournament game now.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 10, 2005, 05:06:55 PM
W&J played AT Wesley one year.  We (radio guys/film crew) flew in a twin-engine, four seater private Cessna.  Lot's of fun.

Couldn't find the runway (turns out it was a grass airstrip).  We finally found it, started to approach when over the radio comes the instructions to "turn immediately.  Cease your approach."  That's when the pilot realized he had lined up Dover Air Base.....

We still laugh about that flight to this day!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: @d3jason on November 10, 2005, 05:10:47 PM
Great story Bob. The Presidents sure has a great team that year. Kicked Wesley butt (41-6). I was suprised they lost in the stagg bowl that year.  The Wolverines gave you a little better run for the money in '95 (leading 10-0 at half).
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: narch on November 10, 2005, 05:13:56 PM
Quote from: Conrad on November 10, 2005, 05:03:01 PM
Narch---

Wesley has upgraded their facilities tremendously. New field turf, pressbox, messaging scoreboard, lights and visitors stands.  It would be an excellent place to host a tournament game now.
thanks...sounds like they've got facilties befitting the quality of the team, now
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 10, 2005, 05:18:18 PM
Quote from: Conrad on November 10, 2005, 05:10:47 PM
Great story Bob. The Presidents sure has a great team that year. Kicked Wesley butt (41-6). I was suprised they lost in the stagg bowl that year.  The Wolverines gave you a little better run for the money in '95 (leading 10-0 at half).

Conrad, what's the chances that I've got a story on the '95 game too?

If you recall, it was pouring down rain, wind 25-30 mph, etc.  Awful.

The old W&J press box had push-out windows held up with pieces of angle iron.  Late third quarter, I stand up out of my seat to look around and out the old coaches box windows (which I could actually see out of) and the wind lifted my window up, then crashed down, shoving that angle iron square into the seat where I was 10 seconds earlier.

Until now, most people have no idea how close W&J was to becoming Washington, Jefferson & Gregg!!!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: @d3jason on November 10, 2005, 05:24:32 PM
I remember it being about 72 degrees on the morning of that game and by the time it was over we were driving back to Dover in about 6 inches of snow.  About half our team was hypothermic.

Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: @d3jason on November 10, 2005, 05:37:47 PM
Coach Lucky was running his team into the locker room between series to keep them warm. He quite a character and a great coach. Wesley on the far sideline had no such shelter.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: d3fbalumn on November 10, 2005, 07:17:50 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 10, 2005, 05:18:18 PM

Until now, most people have no idea how close W&J was to becoming Washington, Jefferson & Gregg!!!

Don't be so modest Bob....when it's your time they will probably drop the Washington & Jefferson altogether and just go with Gregg's College, or better yet Bob's College....LOL ;D
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 10, 2005, 07:31:22 PM
d3fbalumn,

The only problem with the stormy Wesley game day is that to have had the name change at the College, I would have been DEAD.

Of course, the other two guys that the school is named for are dead, too!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: d3fbalumn on November 10, 2005, 07:59:43 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 10, 2005, 07:31:22 PM
d3fbalumn,

The only problem with the stormy Wesley game day is that to have had the name change at the College, I would have been DEAD.

Of course, the other two guys that the school is named for are dead, too!

I got it, that's why I prefaced with "when your time comes". We all hope that doesn't happen until after the 100th annual Stagg Bowl or beyond but when it does I will lobby hard for the "Gregg" addition.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: PittTBCW on November 11, 2005, 01:08:27 AM
With the criteria and such pointing to Thiel as a number 1 seed then why aren't they???

With a 10-0 finish could they bump up two spots or does the top notch in the south belong to Trinity???

If the criteria says so then the Tomcats should be number one in the south. Forget about the past...thats why there is criteria just follow the dang rules!!!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 11, 2005, 06:41:32 AM
Quote from: PittTBCW on November 11, 2005, 01:08:27 AM
With the criteria and such pointing to Thiel as a number 1 seed then why aren't they???

Good question Pitt.  You could check with the co-chairs of the South Region Evaluation Committee for the answer:

Charles Harris, Averett University, cochair (AD)
Steve Mohr, Trinity University, cochair (coach)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 11, 2005, 08:18:50 AM
Mofia,

Trinitys coach is the cochair of the South Region Evaluation Commitee?

QuoteSteve Mohr, Trinity University, cochair (coach)

He must be a solid evaluater of talent due to his teams success in the playoffs and ablility to recruit solid football players, but how does someone get in the position as Evaluation Committee Chair?

Should coaches be on the voting commitees? 

The argueing point that someone could always bring up is a predetermined bias for a team?  Has their ever been any problems in the past with coaches being on the commitees or has it been a very smooth process?

I see both ways personally. I understand someones point if they thought a coach were being predetermined in their opinions.  Not only that they are busy and constrained their own team and players from week to week.  Whether its having player meetings, players getting in trouble at school, their grades with teachers, taking calls from fans, parents, newspapers, and having practice everday.  Are they able to truly evaluate other teams on what is going on elsewhere in their region during the season.  Pat Coleman who has the ability and time to follow all the teams in the Nation would be a tremendous evaluator and that is why he will be on ESPN this weekend. 

Being a coach you do know talent when you see it, and you have been around the NCAA for sometime and you know how to judge a solid team that deserves to be in the playoffs.  Are they given info on all the teams in their regions from the NCAA and pick from their criteria?  How does that work?

Remeber I am not either way on this one just perplexed on how these chairs are picked and how they judge who gets in and who doesn't.  Is their flaws to this system???
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on November 11, 2005, 09:03:24 AM
Lets not accuse the Committee of wrong doing!

Here is the criteria:

Primary Criteria (not in priority order)


Secondary Criteria

Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 11, 2005, 09:22:41 AM
Llama,
Thiel does have a higher QOWI than Trinity, and as of this ranking, has a win over a ranked regional team.  I don't see anywhere in the criteria where Trinity (or Ferrum) has the edge over Thiel.

Also, until HSC moved into the rankings this week, there was nothing in the criteria to support putting BC above HSU in the rankings.  In the regional rankings up to this point, the South Region committee appears to not be following the criteria to a 'T', so it makes you look elsewhere for reasons as to why teams are ranked where they're ranked.

Thus, the following.

Cleveland,

Here's a listing of the South Region Evaluation Committee for this year, as posted in this thread earlier.  I've added each member's conference affliation.  

I've also bolded conferences that have at least one member on the committee and at least one team in the rankings.  I've italicized any ranked team with a member on the committee.

USAC: Charles Harris, Averett University, cochair (AD)
SCAC: Steve Mohr, Trinity University, cochair (coach)
USAC: Paul Barnes, Shenandoah University (coach)
ODAC: Mike Clark, Bridgewater College (coach)
SCAC: Mike Clary, Rhodes College (AD)
CC:     Mike Donnelly, Muhlenberg College (coach)
ASC:   Ralph Harris, East Texas Baptist University (coach)

Here are the South Region's Top 10.  I've included conference affliliation.

1. Trinity (SCAC)
2. Ferrum (USAC)
3. Thiel (PAC)
4. Mary Hardin-Baylor (ASC)
5. Wesley (ACFC)
6. Bridgewater (ODAC)
7. Washington and Jefferson (PAC)
8. Hardin-Simmons (ASC)
9. DePauw (SCAC)
10. Hampden-Sydney (ODAC)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 11, 2005, 09:28:38 AM
I also believe that committee members are not allowed to participate in rankings/discussion that involve their teams - or remember seeing that stated somewhere. 

It would not surprise me to see Trinity drop after Saturday's game against an opponent with only two wins - their QOWI will go down as a result.  I still can't figure why Ferrum is #2, though. 
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 11, 2005, 09:31:36 AM
One thing Llama,

Thiel QOWI: 11.33
Trinity QOWI: 11.143

Not a huge difference, but not quite as close as you posted.  Plus, I don't think we should worry about SOS based on Massey Ratings, since that's not in the criteria.

Also, as you pointed out: "In-region results vs. regionally ranked teams(ranked at the time of the ranking/selection process".  Each week is a time of ranking, correct?  It doesn't matter for selection until next week, but I would think it would count for ranking right now.

And I hope the committee isn't even looking at a missed Trinity-Depauw game, as it never happened.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: spliskin on November 11, 2005, 09:34:33 AM
Llamaguy,

Great analysis....After seeing this breakdown, I concur with your assesment.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on November 11, 2005, 09:50:47 AM
Point being Mizzou that the committee is not considering the Regional win for Thiel yet. Maybe they are considering it but if they aren't it makes things closer. As for the Strength of schedule, it is a secondary criteria and is considered. There is no other published SOS so if they don't use it they will consider it subjectively. I'm not defending the committee as I agree after this weekend Thiel could move up. But I seriously doubt that the Committee members are intentionally swaying the vote.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 11, 2005, 10:07:12 AM
I hear yah Llama.  I'm just looking for answers, and hopefully accountability.  The journalist in me wants more answers and isn't satisfied with just accepting what is presented, especially when what is presented doesn't follow the guidelines that everyone else is using.

Isn't the QOWI the SOS index used by the committee, not Massey?  I know it was in the past.

If I follow your line of rationale, and give Trinity the 'benefit of the doubt', and don't count Thiel's win against a regionally ranked team, then why is Ferrum ahead of Thiel (when Thiel has a full point higher QOWI).  Why is BC ahead of HSU (again, HSU has a higher QOWI, and a higher Regional winning %)?   

I won't say that committee members "are intentionally swaying the vote", but it would make sense for, say the two USAC members, to support Ferrum, not because they're in the same conference, but because they both got pounded by Ferrum.   They've seen Ferrum play.  No one on the committee has seen Thiel play.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: religion_major on November 11, 2005, 10:11:46 AM
mizzou,

I think you may be on to something regarding who on the committee has seen which teams play.  Dispite what the criteria tells a committee member it will be hard for him to forget the team that monkey stomped his team.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on November 11, 2005, 10:23:11 AM
Totally agree with the Ferrum & BC assessment. The old SOSI was replaced by the qowi. Although the qowi doesn't exactly give you a good feel for SOS. I doubt they use Massey, I think its subjective and may be where your "seeing a team play" comes into effect. ;)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: PittTBCW on November 11, 2005, 10:50:23 AM
Guys Great Job!!!

I think alot of you made valid points. I am not trying to say that Thiel is the best team in the south region. I just think that if the rules state that Thiel should be number one then they should be. If they state they should be 8th then they should be 8th. I am not trying to create something out of nothing just was curious. In football if its fourth down and 5 yards to go and you only get 3 yards its not a first down.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Hug on November 11, 2005, 10:55:13 AM
You guys are being too Black & White.  Its all going to come down to mileage.
Title: New Poll
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 11, 2005, 11:12:38 AM
New poll posted.


Previous Question: If everyone wins out this weekend (and Pat's recent projections hold) - putting fan bias aside - which game would you most want to see?

#18 Bridgewater (9-1) at Ferrum (10-0) - 4 (8.9%)
Johns Hopkins (8-2) at #17 Thiel (10-0) - 6 (13.3%)
#8 Hardin-Simmons (9-1) at #9 Trinity, Texas (9-0) - 24 (53.3%)
#25 Wesley (9-1) at #4 Mary Hardin-Baylor (8-1) - 11 (24.4%)
 
Total Votes: 45
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 11, 2005, 01:10:59 PM
Quote from: Hug on November 11, 2005, 10:55:13 AM
You guys are being too Black & White.  Its all going to come down to mileage.

Matchups will, but seedings shouldn't.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 11, 2005, 02:40:30 PM
Quote from: Hug on November 11, 2005, 10:55:13 AM
You guys are being too Black & White.  Its all going to come down to mileage.

Yes, but don't overthink it. The committee traditionally has no qualms whatsoever about sending teams 499 miles by bus, the limit before which the NCAA must pay for a flight. As long as it's a bus trip, they don't usually care whether it's 200 miles or 499 miles.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Hug on November 11, 2005, 02:58:59 PM
Maybe I'm underthinking it!

I still believe it works too well not to have BC and Ferrum play one place or the other.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 11, 2005, 05:07:28 PM
Llamaguy , Imagine this board in '95 or 96' When there were 7 or maybe even 8 undefeated teams and only 4 made the playoffs. 
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 11, 2005, 05:22:39 PM
It's interesting to look at Massey's top 32 teams. 

1. UW-Whitewater
2. Linfield
3. St John's
4. Mt Union
5. Concordia
6. Augustana
7. N Central
8. UW-Eau Claire
9. Central (IA)
10. Capital
11. St Olaf
12. UW-Stout
13. UW-LaCrosse
14. Ohio Northern
15. UMHB <- First South Region team
16. UW-Oshkosh
17. John Carroll
18. Coe
19. Hardin-Simmons
20. Wesley
21. Wabash
22. Trinity
23. Thiel
24. St John Fisher
25. Wheaton
26. Occidental
27. Bethel
28. DePauw
29. Rowan
30. W&J
31. Monmouth
32. Ithaca

So, Massey doesn't think too much of the South Region this year.   #39 Wesley is the eighth-ranked SR team.  Howard Payne is #45, Huntingdon #50. 
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 11, 2005, 05:50:37 PM
Massey never does. It's always very West heavy.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Jamnqb10 on November 11, 2005, 06:22:09 PM
OK Guys,   Here it is, the end of the season.  I feel like I did when i was 16 and I realized that the summer was allmost over.   Thank God for the playoffs.  I hope your team made it. (Mine Did)  I would like to give a shout out to those Panthers from Ferrum college.  Bring it home Boys.  Leave no doubt who is supreme in the USAC.  Nobody beleived you could do it.  Except you of course.  Good luck Coach D & H.

GO! BlackHats!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 11, 2005, 08:07:03 PM
I think it might be more accurate to say Massey is always WIAC-heavy, wouldn't you agree, Pat?  I mean, is it realistic--at any level--that five teams from one conference are in the top 16 teams in the country?  ;)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 11, 2005, 08:58:56 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 11, 2005, 05:50:37 PM
Massey never does. It's always very West heavy.

It's normally WIAC heavy, but there's usually someone from the south in the top ten.   
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 11, 2005, 10:22:09 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on November 11, 2005, 08:07:03 PM
I think it might be more accurate to say Massey is always WIAC-heavy, wouldn't you agree, Pat?  I mean, is it realistic--at any level--that five teams from one conference are in the top 16 teams in the country?  ;)

Because of common opponents, though, the high ratings spread throughout the region.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2005, 09:47:29 AM
LET'S GET IT STARTED!

B/C hopefuls from the South Region:

Thiel (vs. Carnegie-Mellon)
Wesley (9-1, idle)
Wash & Jeff (9-1, idle)
Huntingdon (vs. Maryville)

UMHB (vs. Austin)
Trinity (vs. Millsaps)
DePauw (vs. Wabash)
Hampden-Sydney (vs. Randolph-Macon)
Methodist (vs. Shenandoah)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Jeremybozz on November 12, 2005, 01:20:13 PM
Catholic leads Bridgewater 14-0 in the 1st quarter.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 12, 2005, 01:28:16 PM
Wabash draws first blood, leads DePauw 3-0 midway through the first. 

DPU gets a BIG break when a short punt into the wind takes a funny bounce and hits a Wabash player.  DPU ball in Wabash territory.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 12, 2005, 01:51:03 PM
In games that could shake up some seedings or change homefield advantage...

CNU beating Ferrum 24-0 in the 1st quarter. 

Carnegie Mellon beating Thiel 14-7 in the 2nd quarter.

Catholic beating Bridgewater 16-7 in the 2nd quarter.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: tcheadhunter on November 12, 2005, 01:51:18 PM
CNU leads undefeated Ferrum 24-0 at the end of the first quarter.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 12, 2005, 02:17:51 PM
Depauw just scored with a 4 & goal at the 1.

Tigers up 7-3, under 2 minutes left in the 1st half.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: desertcat1 on November 12, 2005, 02:20:56 PM
thanks for the scores boys.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 12, 2005, 02:33:15 PM
Games of interest in the South Region Playoff Watch

UMHB leads Austin 14-0 with 7:40 to go in the 1st.

Rowan flirting with missing the playoffs and opening up another spot:  Rowan 7, Montclair St 7 late 2nd quarter.

Bridgewater 22, Catholic 16, HALF
Depauw 7, Wabash 3, HALF
Carnegie Mellon 21, Thiel 14, HALF
CNU 24, Ferrum 0, HALF

That's all I have right now.  Anyone have the HSU-TLU score?


Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: dballa on November 12, 2005, 02:34:40 PM
HSU/TLU doesn't start til 7pm central
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 12, 2005, 02:36:23 PM
Quote from: dballa on November 12, 2005, 02:34:40 PM
HSU/TLU doesn't play til 7pm central

Ah, that explains why I'm not getting the game online :)

John Hopkins up 7-3 at the HALF on Mcdaniel, and Rowan takes a 14-7 lead into the HALF.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 12, 2005, 02:57:16 PM
Trinity and Millsaps knotted at zero after one quarter of play. 
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2005, 03:00:56 PM
Quote from: mizzou_mofia on November 12, 2005, 02:33:15 PMRowan flirting with missing the playoffs and opening up another spot:  Rowan 7, Montclair St 7 late 2nd quarter.

mizzou, Rowan losing doesn't open another spot.  Either SUNY Cortland or Rowan is getting the NJAC "A" bid.  And neither is getting a "C".
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2005, 03:02:34 PM
Speaking of SUNY Cortland, anybody notice the piece on the front page about R-Kal Truluk signing with the AZ. Cardinals.

He was one tough son of a gun for Cortland.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 12, 2005, 03:04:41 PM
10-7 Wabash after a huge "no fumble" call on third and goal from the 4 prevented a 95-yard DPU fumble return.  3:11 left in third. 
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 12, 2005, 03:08:11 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2005, 03:00:56 PM
mizzou, Rowan losing doesn't open another spot.  Either SUNY Cortland or Rowan is getting the NJAC "A" bid.  And neither is getting a "C".

Thanks Bob! I'll quit posting Rowan scores on here.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2005, 03:16:54 PM
Now here's a question:

What would Thiel (CMU) and Ferrum (CNU) losses do to the picture?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: tcheadhunter on November 12, 2005, 03:19:50 PM
End of 3rd quarter, CNU 31  - Ferrum 7  :o :o :o
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 12, 2005, 03:20:34 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2005, 03:16:54 PM
Now here's a question:

What would Thiel (CMU) and Ferrum (CNU) losses do to the picture?


Ferrum still gets a Pool A, yes?

Thiel .. interesting.  Hurts W&J who lost to Thiel, but I think Theil is still in.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 12, 2005, 03:24:05 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2005, 03:16:54 PM
Now here's a question:

What would Thiel (CMU) and Ferrum (CNU) losses do to the picture?


I agree with Ron. I think if Thiel loses, they still get a B and have a shot at a home game with a win over regionally ranked W&J to go with a decent QOWI.  Any idea how far Thiel's QOWI would fall with a loss?

Ferrum still gets the A, but without a big win this season, I think they likely have a road game in the first round.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: tcheadhunter on November 12, 2005, 03:33:17 PM
CNU 37 - Ferrum 7 12:15 left in 4th quarter.

Ferrum fans are already exiting the stadium. Why is Pitts on the bench? Has Ferrum already given up? Are they trying to keep Pitts healthy for the playoffs? I am not sure why Ferrum would bench Pitts and settle for co-champions of the USA South. Plus they might not get a home field playoff game.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 12, 2005, 03:34:32 PM
Now 17-7 Wabash, 7:10 left.   A fumbled/blocked DPU punt (after DPU intercepted Harbaugh at the Wabash 35 but could not move) led to a 37 yard TD reception off a screen to Kyle Piazza. 

DPU is now 0-12 on third downs. 

Trinity is up 21-0 with time running down in the first.

DPU finally moving as Weithoff opens up the offense.  Had a receiver wide open rushing to the end zone but overthrew him. 
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 12, 2005, 03:42:23 PM
Wabash 17, DePauw 14 (Chase Jonason 21 yd pass from Wiethoff) as the Tigers have basically gone exclusively to the passing game.   5:14 left in the game. 
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 12, 2005, 04:03:03 PM
Wabash hangs on as DPU can't advance the ball past midfield.  Final Score, Wabash 17, DePauw 14.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2005, 04:05:03 PM
So far, that's losses by two 1-loss Pool C candidates.

St. John Fisher to Alfred
DePauw to Wabash
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 12, 2005, 04:08:21 PM
HSC beat RMC 50-17 today, so they should remain ranked in the South Region poll, which is helpful to Bridgewater.

Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: OldPhart on November 12, 2005, 04:36:43 PM
Scoreboard not up to date so... Thiel comes back from 28-14 to tie in regulation.  Thiel wins over CMU 50-48 in 3OT. Tomcats did all they can to help W&J in.

Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 12, 2005, 04:50:29 PM
Maryville intercepts a Huntingdon pass that went through the hands of the intended receiver in the end zone with less than 20 seconds remaining.  The Hawks are definitely out of the playoffs after the 35-31 loss. 

Trinity's now up 34-0 as Blake Barmore leads the team on an 80-yard drive (after once again holding Millsaps who had first-and-goal). 
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 12, 2005, 05:15:56 PM
Final from San Antonio - Trinity 41, Millsaps 0. 
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Hawks88 on November 12, 2005, 07:25:45 PM
And I am sick to my stomach. I went into today thinking we needed two or three one loss teams to lose to give us a shot. I get home and look at the scoreboard and see that three of the teams I had listed have lost. Oh well, our defense played just well enough today to take the decision out of the selection commitee's hands.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mandfense on November 12, 2005, 07:35:05 PM
I think the big question who is going to travel to UMHB?  I'm thinking it has to be W&J as #6 seed (Assuming Linfield wins tonight).  Wesley goes East to play Union.

#7 Hardin-Simmons AT #1 Trinity
#8 Johns Hopkins AT #2 Thiel
#6 Washington & Jefferson AT #3 Mary-Hardin Baylor
#5 Ferrum AT #4 Bridgewater

Thiel and MHB could flop seeds as could HSU and W&J but I think the matchups would be the same.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 12, 2005, 07:47:38 PM
Wesley will move up and get a home game in the south!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mandfense on November 12, 2005, 07:55:07 PM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on November 12, 2005, 07:47:38 PM
Wesley will move up and get a home game in the south!

I think they deserve one especially since they'd be ranked around #4 in the South Region right now, but geographically, it makes more sense to ship them East as opposed to a Bridgewater or a Ferrum or a W&J.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 12, 2005, 08:23:26 PM
 I don't disagree with that. But I don't think you move them to lower seed in the East. Espacially after shipping them to
Texas when the should have been home in their initial trip to the playoffs a few years back.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on November 12, 2005, 08:27:41 PM
Here is my prediction and I'm sticking to it, LOL.  ;D

East: Delaware Valley Bracket                             West:  Linfield Bracket
Capital (C)                                                          Central (C)
Curry (A)                                                            Coe (A)
Delaware Valley (A)                                              Con-Moor (C)
Wesley (B)                                                          Linfield (B)
Union (A)                                                            Monmouth (A)
Ithica (A)                                                            Occidental (A)
Rowan (A)                                                           St. John's (A)
Hobart (C)                                                           Cal Lutheran (C)


North: Wabash Bracket                                       South: Trinity Bracket
Albion (A)                                                            Bridgewater (A)
Lakeland (A)                                                         Ferrum (A)
Augustana (A)                                                      Hardin-Simmons (A)
North Central (C)                                                  UMHB (C)
Mt Union (A)                                                        Johns Hopkins (A)
Mt St, Joseph (A)                                                 Trinity (A)
Wabash (A)                                                         Thiel (B)
UW Whitewater (A)                                               Wash & Jefferson (B)

Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mandfense on November 12, 2005, 08:31:37 PM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on November 12, 2005, 08:23:26 PM
I don't disagree with that. But I don't think you move them to lower seed in the East. Espacially after shipping them to
Texas when the should have been home in their initial trip to the playoffs a few years back.

NCAA Rule #1 - Geography TRUMPS seeding.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 12, 2005, 08:41:47 PM
Johns Hopkins could go east. Depending on how far north they have to go LOL. I am NOt confused yet BUT I am getting close!

LLAMA    Yep you are holding fast!! Until 1:30 Sunday??
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mandfense on November 12, 2005, 08:44:57 PM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on November 12, 2005, 08:41:47 PM
Johns Hopkins could go east. Depending on how far north they have to go LOL. I am NOt confused yet BUT I am getting close!

LLAMA    Yep you are holding fast!! Until 1:30 Sunday??

I thought of that, but JHU isn't even ranked in the South, and to ship them East, they'd get a #7 seed.  That would mean a ranked team in the South ahead of JHU would get a #8 seed in that region, and that wouldn't make much sense.

Edited to add:  Llama's South and East brackets are the same as mine.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: pakownr97 on November 12, 2005, 08:49:31 PM
Why does Wesley's loss against an ACFC opponent, Brockport State, NOT count as a regional loss?  I know Brockport State is in the East region, but I thought I read on here that a game against any opponent within your own conference is considered a regional game.

I think Ron Boerger brought it up about Depauw.

Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on November 12, 2005, 08:53:22 PM
Quote from: pakownr97 on November 12, 2005, 08:49:31 PM
Why does Wesley's loss against an ACFC opponent, Brockport State, NOT count as a regional loss?  I know Brockport State is in the East region, but I thought I read on here that a game against any opponent within your own conference is considered a regional game.

I think Ron Boerger brought it up about Depauw.



Pak,
ACFC is not a recognized conference. Basically a bunch of Independants forming a conference for scheduling purposes.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 12, 2005, 08:54:50 PM
HEY!!!! LLAMA I recognise it!!!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mandfense on November 12, 2005, 08:58:07 PM
Just had another scenario.  Capital is more than 500 miles from Union, which screwed up my plan.  Maybe Capital moves to the South as a #8 seed and plays at Thiel, which is close geographically, and Johns Hopkins moves East as a #7 to play at Union, also within the 500 mile limit. 

Thoughts????
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on November 12, 2005, 09:02:04 PM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on November 12, 2005, 08:54:50 PM
HEY!!!! LLAMA I recognise it!!!

Boooooooo! LOL. Now you know my weak points. ;)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: pakownr97 on November 12, 2005, 09:08:07 PM
Does anything about the NCAA make sense? 

Kind of reminds of a scene from a Riddler episode of Batman.

Batman:  Here's what the Riddler is asking, Robin.  When is a conference not a conference?

Robin:  Holy Cross, Batman, I don't know, when is a conference not a conference?

Robin:  Wait, Batman.  I've got it! When the NCAA doesn't recognize it.

Batman:  Exactly, old chum.  To the Thiel College, Robin.

;D
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2005, 09:34:58 PM
Not that I'm expecting it, but IF Hardin-Simmons loses to Texas Lutheran (as they are at the half), you guys can all go back to the drawing board because NOBODY will be flying to Texas.  There'll be Trinity & UMHB and that'll be it.

Remember now, I said I'm not expecting that to happen, but....
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on November 12, 2005, 09:49:37 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2005, 09:34:58 PM
Not that I'm expecting it, but IF Hardin-Simmons loses to Texas Lutheran (as they are at the half), you guys can all go back to the drawing board because NOBODY will be flying to Texas.  There'll be Trinity & UMHB and that'll be it.

Remember now, I said I'm not expecting that to happen, but....

Yup it is possible. I'm listening to the game right now. ;)
14-14 in the 3rd. Punt return for HSU touchdown.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2005, 09:54:40 PM
And the NCAA penny-pinchers aren't the only ones cheering for TLU right now.  ALL of the Pool C bubblers are jumping up and down, shouting and cheering for TLU too.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on November 12, 2005, 09:55:39 PM
Quote from: mandfense on November 12, 2005, 08:58:07 PM
Just had another scenario.  Capital is more than 500 miles from Union, which screwed up my plan.  Maybe Capital moves to the South as a #8 seed and plays at Thiel, which is close geographically, and Johns Hopkins moves East as a #7 to play at Union, also within the 500 mile limit. 

Thoughts????

That would be quite a gag gift for an undefeated season posted by Thiel. :o
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: religion_major on November 12, 2005, 10:47:40 PM
So who on the bubble makes it if HSU looses?  Huntingdon?  Hampden-Sydney?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2005, 10:52:04 PM
IF HSU loses, they're in trouble (likely OUT).  UMHB becomes the ASC "A".

Pool C looks like this (seven berths)

1-loss candidates:
Concordia-Moorhead (to St. Johns, 20-16)
North Central (to Augustana, 20-17)
Central (to Coe, 17-14)
Hobart (to Union, 28-18)
California Lutheran (to Occidental, 41-9)


2-loss candidates (won/idle today, then loss today)
Alfred (W&L, Ithaca)
Wilkes (Wm. Patterson, Del. Valley)
Adrian (Alma, Hope)
St. Olaf (St. John's, Conc-Moorhead)
Capital (Mt.Union, Otterbein)
Ohio Northern (Capital, John Carroll)
Hampden-Sydney (Bridgewater, W&L)
St. Norbert (Whitewater, Monmouth)
Methodist (Salisbury, Ferrum)
Hardin-Simmons (UMHB, Texas Lutheran--IF HSU loses)

St. John Fisher (Ithaca, Alfred)
DePauw (Wesley, Wabash)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on November 12, 2005, 10:56:00 PM
Quote from: religion_major on November 12, 2005, 10:47:40 PM
So who on the bubble makes it if HSU looses?  Huntingdon?  Hampden-Sydney?

John Carroll or Alfred are my two choices. If they don't go with three OAC teams then I think Alfred gets in.

Thought ???
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2005, 11:04:38 PM
Quote from: Llamaguy on November 12, 2005, 10:56:00 PM
John Carroll or Alfred are my two choices. If they don't go with three OAC teams then I think Alfred gets in.

John Carroll?  They lost AGAIN today (17-14 to Baldwin-Wallace).  The Blue Streaks are 7-3, and NOT making the tournament.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 12, 2005, 11:11:59 PM
Just a thought...

Now that HSU has lost...they won't be a regionally ranked team.

Before today's games, UMHB has a QOWI almost .6 better than Bridgewater.  Bridgewater will have a win against a regionally ranked opponent, unlike UMHB.  I'm guessing UMHB would keep the higher seed, but it's possible they could swap spots too.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 12, 2005, 11:13:27 PM
Mizzou, I've always wondered about that.  Does it count if the team is ranked when you beat them, or is it based on where they finish the season?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Jeremybozz on November 12, 2005, 11:13:39 PM
TLU wins over Hardin Simmons. Is HSU out now?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on November 12, 2005, 11:14:16 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2005, 11:04:38 PM
Quote from: Llamaguy on November 12, 2005, 10:56:00 PM
John Carroll or Alfred are my two choices. If they don't go with three OAC teams then I think Alfred gets in.

John Carroll?  They lost AGAIN today (17-14 to Baldwin-Wallace).  The Blue Streaks are 7-3, and NOT making the tournament.

Didn't know that Bob. Thanks. I'll take Alfred as the NCAA doesn't want to open up the ONU issue again. ;)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 12, 2005, 11:14:28 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on November 12, 2005, 11:13:27 PM
Mizzou, I've always wondered about that.  Does it count if the team is ranked when you beat them, or is it based on where they finish the season?

It's based on where they're at at the time of selection.

I'm guessing they re-rank the teams tonight?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 12, 2005, 11:18:07 PM
Quote from: Jeremybozz on November 12, 2005, 11:13:39 PM
TLU wins over Hardin Simmons. Is HSU out now?

Two losses to non-ranked teams makes it pretty darned tough.  DePauw's two losses are to ranked teams and they prolly won't get in.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2005, 11:20:58 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger (BfB) on November 12, 2005, 11:18:07 PMTwo losses to non-ranked teams makes it pretty darned tough.  DePauw's two losses are to ranked teams and they prolly won't get in.

BfB, I agree about DePauw.  But one of HSU's losses is to UMHB.  And THEY ARE ranked.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 12, 2005, 11:22:45 PM
I know it is a long shot, but I wish HSU could get in. 
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 12, 2005, 11:23:48 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2005, 11:20:58 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger (BfB) on November 12, 2005, 11:18:07 PMTwo losses to non-ranked teams makes it pretty darned tough.  DePauw's two losses are to ranked teams and they prolly won't get in.

BfB, I agree about DePauw.  But one of HSU's losses is to UMHB.  And THEY ARE ranked.

Sorry, got confused with UMHB's loss.  Duh. 
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on November 12, 2005, 11:24:17 PM
Here is my prediction and I'm sticking to it, LOL.

Thanks HSU, I promise no more changes. (ha,ha)

East: Delaware Valley Bracket                             West:  Linfield Bracket
Alfred (C)                                                          Central (C)
Curry (A)                                                            Coe (A)
Delaware Valley (A)                                              Con-Moor (C)
Wesley (B)                                                          Linfield (B)
Union (A)                                                            Monmouth (A)
Ithica (A)                                                            Occidental (A)
Rowan (A)                                                           St. John's (A)
Hobart (C)                                                           Cal Lutheran (C)


North: Wabash Bracket                                       South: Trinity Bracket
Albion (A)                                                            Bridgewater (A)
Lakeland (A)                                                         Ferrum (A)
Augustana (A)                                                      Capital (C)
North Central (C)                                                  UMHB (A)
Mt Union (A)                                                        Johns Hopkins (A)
Mt St, Joseph (A)                                                 Trinity (A)
Wabash (A)                                                         Thiel (B)
UW Whitewater (A)                                               Wash & Jefferson (B)

Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 12, 2005, 11:24:57 PM
Quote from: Llamaguy on November 12, 2005, 08:27:41 PM
Here is my prediction and I'm sticking to it, LOL.  ;D

East: Delaware Valley Bracket                             West:  Linfield Bracket
Capital (C)                                                          Central (C)
Curry (A)                                                            Coe (A)
Delaware Valley (A)                                              Con-Moor (C)
Wesley (B)                                                          Linfield (B)
Union (A)                                                            Monmouth (A)
Ithica (A)                                                            Occidental (A)
Rowan (A)                                                           St. John's (A)
Hobart (C)                                                           Cal Lutheran (C)


North: Wabash Bracket                                       South: Trinity Bracket
Albion (A)                                                            Bridgewater (A)
Lakeland (A)                                                         Ferrum (A)
Augustana (A)                                                      Hardin-Simmons (A)
North Central (C)                                                  UMHB (C)
Mt Union (A)                                                        Johns Hopkins (A)
Mt St, Joseph (A)                                                 Trinity (A)
Wabash (A)                                                         Thiel (B)
UW Whitewater (A)                                               Wash & Jefferson (B)

That lasted 3 hours :)

Llama, if the committee adds in Alfred like you mentioned in place of departed HSU, what do think about these pairings in the South?

1 Trinity hosts 3 UMHB
2 Thiel hosts 8 JHU
4 Wesley hosts 7 W&J
5 BC hosts 6 Ferrum.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on November 12, 2005, 11:26:07 PM
If HSU & DePauw don't get in, the question is does South Region #1 play #3 UMHB in round 1? :-[
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 12, 2005, 11:26:22 PM
Ah, didn't see your post until I posted!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on November 12, 2005, 11:27:09 PM
Guess that is what I get for assuming HSU takes care of business. ;)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: badbadman on November 12, 2005, 11:27:25 PM
It looks like the south now has exactly 8 likely playoff teams:

1.  Trinity
2.  Thiel
3.  MHB
4.  Wesley
5.  Bridgewater
6.  W&J
7.  Ferrum
8.  JHU

likey matchups:

MHB at Trinity
JHU at Thiel
Ferrum at Wesley
W&J at Bridgewater
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 12, 2005, 11:27:51 PM
Quote from: Llamaguy on November 12, 2005, 11:26:07 PM
If HSU & DePauw don't get in, the question is does South Region #1 play #3 UMHB in round 1? :-[

Plenty of precedent, unfortunately.  So, again, UMHB gets screwed out of a home game.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 12, 2005, 11:28:27 PM
What time are the selections tomorrow?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 12, 2005, 11:29:17 PM
Has anyone cranked out the updated QOWI to look over?

Selection show at 1pm Bill.  Posted on here probably at 1:30.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 12, 2005, 11:30:31 PM
I know the veterams on Post Patterns always say that geography trumps everything else, but it is strange to see #1 play #3 and #5 play #6.  Still, I expect to be at Stevens Field next Saturday.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 12, 2005, 11:31:02 PM
Mizzou, help me with my ignorance, eastern or central.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on November 12, 2005, 11:31:40 PM
Quote from: badbadman on November 12, 2005, 11:27:25 PM
It looks like the south now has exactly 8 likely playoff teams:

1.  Trinity
2.  Thiel
3.  MHB
4.  Wesley
5.  Bridgewater
6.  W&J
7.  Ferrum
8.  JHU

likey matchups:

MHB at Trinity
JHU at Thiel
Ferrum at Wesley
W&J at Bridgewater


I still think a North team needs to move. Makes more sense to move Capital into the South and Wesley to the East. Guess we will see tomorrow.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 12, 2005, 11:33:57 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on November 12, 2005, 11:31:02 PM
Mizzou, help me with my ignorance, eastern or central.

The selection show is at 1:00 EST (12:00 CT) on ESPN News.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Toby Taff on November 12, 2005, 11:35:50 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger (BfB) on November 12, 2005, 11:27:51 PM
Quote from: Llamaguy on November 12, 2005, 11:26:07 PM
If HSU & DePauw don't get in, the question is does South Region #1 play #3 UMHB in round 1? :-[

Plenty of precedent, unfortunately.  So, again, UMHB gets screwed out of a home game.

Worked out ok last year.  ;)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 12, 2005, 11:38:59 PM
Quote from: mhb8904 on November 12, 2005, 11:35:50 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger (BfB) on November 12, 2005, 11:27:51 PM
Quote from: Llamaguy on November 12, 2005, 11:26:07 PM
If HSU & DePauw don't get in, the question is does South Region #1 play #3 UMHB in round 1? :-[

Plenty of precedent, unfortunately.  So, again, UMHB gets screwed out of a home game.

Worked out ok last year.  ;)

Be nice for the home fans to be able to see a few more games though.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 12, 2005, 11:43:04 PM
Gee, is that the sound of cursing coming from Pat & company as they re-jigger the predictions?   :D
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on November 12, 2005, 11:48:53 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger (BfB) on November 12, 2005, 11:43:04 PM
Gee, is that the sound of cursing coming from Pat & company as they re-jigger the predictions?   :D

Yup! Had HSU won they actually had a chance of hitting all 32 teams this year. Now lets see how they do. ;) That last spot is a toss-up.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 13, 2005, 12:11:43 AM
Quote from: Llamaguy on November 12, 2005, 11:48:53 PM

That last spot is a toss-up.
I'm liking your Alfred choice more each time I look at it Llama, as they only have 1 loss in region.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 13, 2005, 12:42:24 AM
It's been a long week today!

Good night.  See you all bright and early in the morning.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 13, 2005, 01:06:21 AM
Yep.  I guess "overnight" (as in "overnight tonight we'll give you one final set of projected playoff pairings") means "before you get up tomorrow."   ;D  'nite!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: pakownr97 on November 13, 2005, 01:38:48 AM
Anybody still up?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Toby Taff on November 13, 2005, 01:40:58 AM
Quote from: mizzou_mofia on November 12, 2005, 11:38:59 PM
Quote from: mhb8904 on November 12, 2005, 11:35:50 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger (BfB) on November 12, 2005, 11:27:51 PM
Quote from: Llamaguy on November 12, 2005, 11:26:07 PM
If HSU & DePauw don't get in, the question is does South Region #1 play #3 UMHB in round 1? :-[

Plenty of precedent, unfortunately.  So, again, UMHB gets screwed out of a home game.

Worked out ok last year.  ;)

Be nice for the home fans to be able to see a few more games though.

We travel well, and SAn Antonio IS nice this time of year.
Title: New Poll
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 13, 2005, 02:06:09 AM
New poll posted.


Previous Question: Assuming the following schools won't make the field of 32, who would have made the most noise in the playoffs?

DePauw - 9 (17%)
Hampden-Sydney - 12 (22.6%)
Howard Payne - 8 (15.1%)
Huntingdon - 2 (3.8%)
Methodist - 4 (7.5%)
Salisbury - 4 (7.5%)
Washington & Jefferson - 14 (26.4%)
Washington & Lee - 0 (0%)
   
Total Votes: 53
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 13, 2005, 07:07:09 AM
I don't think it really matters who you play when in the playoffs.  You have to win them all to be champions.  However, do the schools get any sort of financial benefit by advancing further into the playoffs?  If that is the case, then homefield should carry more weight.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 13, 2005, 07:32:03 AM
Pretty sure the gate money goes to the AA (to help pay for all that travel).  A number of schools don't charge anything normally for fb games, and the AA mandates the gate in the playoffs.  Of course there is concession money to be had, programs, and the like, but even then the AA limits what you can sell. 
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 13, 2005, 11:11:44 AM
D3 projection:

SOUTH

Trinity (Texas) (A)
Thiel (B)
Occidental (A)
Mary Hardin-Baylor (A)
Wesley (B)
Ferrum (A)
Bridgewater (A)
Johns Hopkins (A)


Johns Hopkins @ Trinity
Bridgewater at Thiel
Ferrum @ Wesley
Mary Hardin-Baylor @ Occidental

Let's leave Occidental in the West, move Whitewater to the North, W&J in the South.

UMHB at Trinity
Johns Hopkins at Thiel
Ferrum at Bridgewater
W&J at Wesley
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 13, 2005, 11:19:51 AM
Bob.Gregg, I like your scenario better.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: pakownr97 on November 13, 2005, 11:22:27 AM
Let's all make a pact right now.  No matter what happens to our team at 1:00 EST today, we will all thank the NCAA for giving us a 32 team playoff system where our teams will prove their worth on the field.

I'm a Bridgewater alum, so we will probably be b!+ching that we wanted a home game.  The Texas teams will probably be b!+ching that #3 seed should get a home game.  Hampden-Sydney will probably be b!+ching they missed the field, again.  No one will be happy.  

So let's thank the powers that be that this will all be settled on the field.  Not by Pat or the AA or BCS or anything else.  To win this thing your team (or mine) will have to win at sometime on the road against a great team.  If we are seeded lower than we like, then its up to our teams to go out and prove we were robbed.

In other words, let's keep this all in perspective.  After all this is D3, not D-1A.  No one's life will be lost over these seedings.

Hope we all have a great day.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: pakownr97 on November 13, 2005, 11:23:33 AM
Bob Gregg,

I like your matchups, too.

I hope you are correct.

Can't believe I'm agreeing with a W & J guy.

;D
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 13, 2005, 11:29:18 AM
pakownr97,  I agree with you, 32 teams are much better than 28.  I'm sure 33 and 34 will feel slighted.  From a practical standpoint, I hope UMHB plays in San Antonio.  I don't relish a flight to Occidental, but I will go where ever they play.  You have to win 4 games to get to the Stagg Bowl, so I don't think it really matters where a team starts.  You have to beat good teams along the way to reach the finals.  UMHB did ok last year playing on the road.  I imagine they will wear their all white uniforms. :)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: pakownr97 on November 13, 2005, 11:35:28 AM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on November 13, 2005, 11:29:18 AM
pakownr97,  I agree with you, 32 teams are much better than 28.  I'm sure 33 and 34 will feel slighted.  From a practical standpoint, I hope UMHB plays in San Antonio.  I don't relish a flight to Occidental, but I will go where ever they play.  You have to win 4 games to get to the Stagg Bowl, so I don't think it really matters where a team starts.  You have to beat good teams along the way to reach the finals.  UMHB did ok last year playing on the road.  I imagine they will wear their all white uniforms. :)

Hey Bill,

My point was actually that 32 teams are better than none, like Div 1.  What a joke.  Let's all look forward to some "real" football over the next month.

Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 13, 2005, 11:37:29 AM
pakownr97, even better point.  I just don't understand the thinking against a D1 playoff.  The excitement would far outweigh March madness.  The arguement that it would mess up the bowls doesn't fly in my opinion.  I don't think the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th place teams going to bowls would change.  And the money would be out of sight.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: tTU719803 on November 13, 2005, 11:48:24 AM
It's a shame that UMHB has been such a good team for the past 4 years and still hasn't gotten a home playoff game.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: norton on November 13, 2005, 12:09:59 PM
South prediction:
JHU (8) at Thiel (2)
W&J (6) at BC (5)
UMHB (3) at Trinity (1)
Ferrum (7) at Wesley (4)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: pakownr97 on November 13, 2005, 12:14:48 PM
Quote from: ttu719803 on November 13, 2005, 11:48:24 AM
It's a shame that UMHB has been such a good team for the past 4 years and still hasn't gotten a home playoff game.

Not only that, but wasn't there one year when MHB was one of the top ten teams and didn't even make the show?  I think it was 2003.  Sorry, but I sometimes get UMHB and HSU confused.  It's the east coast bias thing.  Just kidding. 
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 13, 2005, 12:17:43 PM
pakowner97,  2003 selection day was one of the worst days I've ever had, even worse for the UMHB players.  It was hard to understand how the selection committee could have kept them out.  Glad there is no chance for that this year.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: pakownr97 on November 13, 2005, 12:59:06 PM
Bill,

I have memory troubles in my old age, but I remember that day clearly.

BC was number two in the region the previous week, CNU was #1, because they beat BC earlier in the year.  CNU lost in the last week, so we thought we should move up to #1.  So the AA, in its infinite wisdom, decided to make Lycoming #1.  I was so mad...until I noticed UMHB got left out completely. 

Then I thought, at least BC gets a chance to prove the committee wrong (which we did).  Your team never got that chance.

Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: PittTBCW on November 13, 2005, 01:08:28 PM
I think the predictions should be pretty close. You guys did a great job! I think the Thiel Tomcats after sneaking one out yesterday will end up the 2 seed and host John Hopkins in the first round. I also think W&J might stay in the south bracket.


Almost selection time!!!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Jeremybozz on November 13, 2005, 01:19:42 PM
Is BC really at home vs W&J? Wesley was listed on top and they hit the road.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bwana on November 13, 2005, 01:21:42 PM
Looks like the TX boys got sharp end of the stick (due to travel regs...)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: PittTBCW on November 13, 2005, 01:22:33 PM
Not sure about W&J Bridgewater game locatiion but I know they are playing each other.


The Thiel Tomcats face John Hopkins at home


Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bwana on November 13, 2005, 01:24:01 PM
Quote from: Jeremybozz on November 13, 2005, 01:19:42 PM
Is BC really at home vs W&J? Wesley was listed on top and they hit the road.

I think so...

I wonder what seed they had BC at?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: dballa on November 13, 2005, 01:25:37 PM
It's pretty sad we'll never get to see what damage two Texas teams can do in the playoffs...
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bwana on November 13, 2005, 01:26:24 PM
I say I think so as the pairings as listed are consistent in their use of whether top or bottom is at home.

Start at the linfield pairing, and it seems in the odd numbered pairings as you go down the page it is bottom at top, and in the even number it is top at bottom.

Actually, the same can be said within each region.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bwana on November 13, 2005, 01:28:26 PM
At 1209 Norton predicted...

Quote from: norton on November 13, 2005, 12:09:59 PM
South prediction:
JHU (8) at Thiel (2)
W&J (6) at BC (5)
UMHB (3) at Trinity (1)
Ferrum (7) at Wesley (4)

Norton-

What inside line of information do you have?  On the nose right down the line in the South!!!

Pat better but you on the payroll...
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 13, 2005, 01:30:39 PM
A 2 loss team received a bid in the east region.  That has really got to hurt HSU.  I'm biased, but the east is the weakest region by far.  Too bad HSU couldn't have been the 2 loss team to get a bid.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Jeremybozz on November 13, 2005, 01:38:11 PM
I am sorry. Wesley was listed on the bottom and got a 1st round game. W&J was listed below BC but will apparently hit the road.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 13, 2005, 01:41:47 PM
Wesley is home

Bracket workes this way

1 vs 8 sic in the south
5 vs 4
3 vs 6
9 vs 2

Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bwana on November 13, 2005, 01:48:46 PM
In a perfect world where 500-mile rules do not exist I would hearily endorse your pairings...but since I doubt UMHB would be seeded 8th in the south, and given the NCAA and their travel machinations, I have a hunch that Norton's call may be closer to the mark.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Toby Taff on November 13, 2005, 02:14:36 PM
Quote from: Bwana on November 13, 2005, 01:21:42 PM
Looks like the TX boys got sharp end of the stick (due to travel regs...)

We get poked with that same stick every year.  Apparently they like to see the top part of the ASC play Trinity at Trinity.  Maybe the top of the ASC needs top schedule Trinity preseason for MHB to get a home game.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 13, 2005, 02:16:01 PM
bwana I was trying to show how a bracket home and a way works. I know to well about the 500 mile and  money thing works
I agree that the Texas thing is not quite right  
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bwana on November 13, 2005, 02:30:22 PM
PA-wesley...

10-4, but I am curious to see just who got waht seed...
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Stephen1452 on November 13, 2005, 02:42:10 PM
Anyone think that playing christopher newport will help umhb get that home game?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 13, 2005, 02:46:09 PM
If UMHB doesn't lose to HPU, they would have easily been the #1 seed this year and had the HFA at least until the semis. 

Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 13, 2005, 02:49:09 PM
Ron, any idea on how the teams are seeded, oops I saw on ESPNews there are no seeds.  How do they determine home field?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 13, 2005, 02:52:13 PM
Pat probably has much more insight than I do, but I think they are seeded.  Top of each bracket is (normally) your 1-8, bottom your 2-7, next your 3-6 and finally 4-5. 
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: spliskin on November 13, 2005, 02:58:31 PM
Which set of pairing will get matched up in the 2nd round?
IE: the Thiel/Hopkins winner will play the winner of which other set?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 13, 2005, 02:59:31 PM
My GUESS (and it's only that) in the South bracket is:

1.  Trinity
2.  Thiel
3.  Wesley
4.  UMHB
5.  Bridgewater
6.  W&J
7.  Ferrum
8.  Johns Hopkins


If UMHB & Wesley win, Posters say Pat said Wesley hosts Round two.
Thiel would host anyone they play in the region except Trinity.
Johns Hopkins can not get a home game.
Ferrum only gets a home game if they play Johns Hopkins in the Region Final.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 13, 2005, 03:00:24 PM
UMHB @ Trinity
Ferrum @ Wesley


W&J @ Bridgewater
Johns Hopkins @ Thiel


Winners meet in second round
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 13, 2005, 03:02:24 PM
 looks like bridgewater got athe 3 and wesley the 4
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 13, 2005, 03:05:28 PM
I know that chances are tough for UMHB to get a home game as we understand it now, but I want those "northern" sportswriters and media folk to see some D3 football, Texas Style!

Good luck, Cru!

The wheels on the bus go round and round, round and round, round and round...all thru the town. ;D
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 13, 2005, 03:07:17 PM
PA Wesley fan, As I understand it, "pairings" are not necessarily "seedings".
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 13, 2005, 03:09:08 PM
Ralph, can you make any sense out of how they are ranked, rated, seeded, etc?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mandfense on November 13, 2005, 03:11:25 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 13, 2005, 02:59:31 PM
My GUESS (and it's only that) in the South bracket is:

1.  Trinity
2.  Thiel
3.  UMHB
4.  Wesley
5.  Bridgewater
6.  W&J
7.  Ferrum
8.  Johns Hopkins


If UMHB wins, my guess is they are home in Round two.
Thiel would host anyone they play in the region except Trinity.
Johns Hopkins can not get a home game.
Ferrum only gets a home game if they play Johns Hopkins in the Region Final.


On the ESPNEWS broadcast, Pat said that Wesley would host UMHB if they both win their games.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: BC2000 on November 13, 2005, 03:17:48 PM
SO, what are the seeding from top to bottom?

Did BC get the 3 seed?  What about Thiel?

Know I shouldn't look down the road to the second round, but would BC would host Thiel in the 2nd round.

Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 13, 2005, 03:21:09 PM
Quote from: BC2000 on November 13, 2005, 03:17:48 PM
...Know I shouldn't look down the road to the second round, but would BC would host Thiel in the 2nd round.

NO, you shouldn't.

NO, they wouldn't.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bwana on November 13, 2005, 03:54:02 PM
Quote from: mandfense on November 13, 2005, 03:11:25 PM

On the ESPNEWS broadcast, Pat said that Wesley would host UMHB if they both win their games.

Really?  Who did UMHB tick off at NCAA HQ?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Olinemom on November 13, 2005, 05:28:08 PM
Quote from: pakownr97 on November 09, 2005, 06:05:47 PM
Quote from: ttu719803 on November 09, 2005, 03:20:49 PM
I'd love to see another Bridgewater - Trinity matchup.  Those 3 games in that 3 year span were some of the best football I have ever seen.

TTU,

Did you see the 2001 game at Bridgewater?  That was the greatest football game I've ever seen at any level.

He may not have but it was a fabulous game.  Hope the game this coming weekeind can be an exceptional one as well.


Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 13, 2005, 05:56:12 PM
Quote from: Bwana on November 13, 2005, 03:54:02 PM
Quote from: mandfense on November 13, 2005, 03:11:25 PM

On the ESPNEWS broadcast, Pat said that Wesley would host UMHB if they both win their games.

Really? Who did UMHB tick off at NCAA HQ?

I think that Wesley's QOWI, which is highest in D3, is the key factor.

1.  Trinity                      8-0,  11.000
2.  Thiel                      10-0, 11.1
3.  Wesley                    5-0,  12.500
4.  UMHB                      7-1, 10.375
5.  Bridgewater            7-1, 9.500
6.  W&J                         7-1, 9.375
7.  Ferrum                     8-1,  10.111
8.  Johns Hopkins          7-2,  9.444


Ferrum's loss dropped them from a QOWI of 11.000 to 10.111.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 13, 2005, 06:16:48 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 13, 2005, 05:56:12 PM
Quote from: Bwana on November 13, 2005, 03:54:02 PM
Quote from: mandfense on November 13, 2005, 03:11:25 PM

On the ESPNEWS broadcast, Pat said that Wesley would host UMHB if they both win their games.

Really? Who did UMHB tick off at NCAA HQ?

I think that Wesley's QOWI, which is highest in D3, is the key factor.

1.  Trinity                      8-0,  11.000
2.  Thiel                      10-0, 11.1
3.  Wesley                    5-0,  12.500
4.  UMHB                      7-1, 10.375
5.  Bridgewater            7-1, 9.500
6.  W&J                         7-1, 9.375
7.  Ferrum                     8-1,  10.111
8.  Johns Hopkins          7-2,  9.444


Ferrum's loss dropped them from a QOWI of 11.000 to 10.111.


I mentioned this last night, and I'm not sure if it had any bearing or not in the seeding, but maybe HSU fell from the regional rankings after losing...which in-turn hurt UMHB, as they'd no longer have a win against a regionally ranked team.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 13, 2005, 06:48:49 PM
Mizzou, I have HSU's QOWI roughly 10.222 with a win over TLU.  I believe that HSU might have knocked Capital (8-2, 10.100) out of the playoffs.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: cruprez on November 13, 2005, 07:02:51 PM
Ok, so explain to me, the not "seeding" statement....the teams were not seeded per the broadcast, so are they using the last Regional Rankings or what?  To get to the point, I am wondering if UMHB will ever have a home game during this postseason play?  I thought, we might in the 2nd round but a statement was made that we (UMHB) would go to another place if (when!) we beat TU....any clarification to my confused mind would be appreciated.

GO CRU
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on November 13, 2005, 07:19:21 PM
Quote from: cruprez on November 13, 2005, 07:02:51 PM
Ok, so explain to me, the not "seeding" statement....the teams were not seeded per the broadcast, so are they using the last Regional Rankings or what?  To get to the point, I am wondering if UMHB will ever have a home game during this postseason play?  I thought, we might in the 2nd round but a statement was made that we (UMHB) would go to another place if (when!) we beat TU....any clarification to my confused mind would be appreciated.

GO CRU

Not if they go strictly by bracket lines. Obviously they are not an eight seed playing a one seed but that is how they are paired up due to geography. Correct me if I'm wrong but the teams have been seeded everytime in the past. Now do they use that to their advantage to have UMHB host if they beat Trinty & Wesley on the road or do they have to travel regardless. Again if they have to travel throughout regardless then that is just flat wrong! But welcome to D-III athletics from an NCAA perspective. :o
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 13, 2005, 07:39:05 PM
Cruprez, there was one last regional ranking from Saturday that the committee used.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 13, 2005, 07:56:24 PM
Ralph, would that be the one they spilled coffee on and got the pages out of place? :)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: firewater on November 13, 2005, 08:28:10 PM

For the semis, does bracket one play bracket two and bracket three play bracket 4?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bwana on November 13, 2005, 08:28:54 PM
A hypothetical question, and one I ask because I am math impaired...

If BC had beaten McDaniel in Game 1, how much (if any) would that have improved their playoff position?  Could they have bumped Thiel from the #2 slot?

Note I said slot and not seed...
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 13, 2005, 08:29:33 PM
Quote from: firewater on November 13, 2005, 08:28:10 PM

For the semis, does bracket one play bracket two and bracket three play bracket 4?

The National Semifinals have the Linfield bracket vs. the Trinity bracket
and
The Wabash bracket vs. the Delaware Valley bracket
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 13, 2005, 08:34:34 PM
Bwana,  This is my guess.  Still only one home game...

1.  Trinity                      8-0,  11.000
2.  Thiel                      10-0, 11.1
3.  Wesley                    5-0,  12.500
4.  Bridgewater            8-0, 10.500
5.  UMHB                      7-1, 10.375
6.  W&J                         7-1, 9.375
7.  Ferrum                     8-1,  10.111
8.  Johns Hopkins          7-2,  9.444
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bwana on November 13, 2005, 08:54:54 PM
Ralph, you are a good man!

Unfortunately, I had a hunch it would be that way.  Funny how sometimes your post season chances can be limited by the schedule you choose!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 13, 2005, 09:24:01 PM
Bwana, Bridgewater could have used another in-region game playing a team with at least a .500 record.

A road win over a .500 team would have given you 13 pts, or raised your QOWI to 10.778.  a road win over a .667 team would have given you 15 QOWI pts and raised the QOWI to 11.000 and a9-0 in-region record.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 13, 2005, 09:26:38 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 13, 2005, 09:24:01 PM
Bwana, Bridgewater could have used another in-region game playing a team with at least a .500 record.

A road win over a .500 team would have given you 13 pts, or raised your QOWI to 10.778.  a road win over a .667 team would have given you 15 QOWI pts and raised the QOWI to 11.000 and a9-0 in-region record.

Enter Ferrum onto the schedule next season.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 13, 2005, 11:58:36 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 13, 2005, 02:59:31 PM
My GUESS (and it's only that) in the South bracket is:

1.  Trinity
2.  Thiel
3.  Wesley
4.  UMHB
5.  Bridgewater
6.  W&J
7.  Ferrum
8.  Johns Hopkins


If UMHB & Wesley win, Posters say Pat said Wesley hosts Round two.
Thiel would host anyone they play in the region except Trinity.
Johns Hopkins can not get a home game.
Ferrum only gets a home game if they play Johns Hopkins in the Region Final.


I may have said that regarding Wesley. If so, I meant to be more vague since we don't have seeds.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: ThielFan on November 14, 2005, 12:26:40 AM
What is exactly the deal with the ESPNews broadcast stating that the teams are not seeded?  Is that their way of spoonfeeding a mainstream sports audience into understanding in a roundabout way that "the rankings will be used only to determine who plays at home, and not the actual pairings because we are dead-set on screwing the outstanding Texas teams into playing each other immediately?"  Saying that teams aren't seeded would be a nifty little trick into making people believe (except actual D-III fans of course) that there is actually nothing competitively unbalanced or unfair with the geographical nonsense that we are all used to.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 14, 2005, 12:41:26 AM
Well, the NCAA didn't provide them to us, so it's not like we withheld them from you.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Olinemom on November 14, 2005, 01:07:20 AM
Quote from: ThielFan on November 14, 2005, 12:26:40 AM
What is exactly the deal with the ESPNews broadcast stating that the teams are not seeded?  Is that their way of spoonfeeding a mainstream sports audience into understanding in a roundabout way that "the rankings will be used only to determine who plays at home, and not the actual pairings because we are dead-set on screwing the outstanding Texas teams into playing each other immediately?"  Saying that teams aren't seeded would be a nifty little trick into making people believe (except actual D-III fans of course) that there is actually nothing competitively unbalanced or unfair with the geographical nonsense that we are all used to.
So well expressed!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: ThielFan on November 14, 2005, 06:52:14 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 14, 2005, 12:41:26 AM
Well, the NCAA didn't provide them to us, so it's not like we withheld them from you.
I'm glad to hear that.  I was just bemused to hear about teams not being seeded because of all the discussion I've seen in the last couple of weeks about the regional rankings, and about what it meant for seeding in the individual regions.  I went to the NCAA's site to look over the championship handbook again, and they definitely DO mention seeding as one of the criteria for site selection, though that is secondary to geography, which we are all used to, though none of us like it.  They also have a championship bracket posted, which seems to show which teams are hosting games, but only for the first round, and none of the seeds are given.  So, as you say, apparently they are the ones keeping the seeds to themselves, perhaps so they don't look like idiots for sending #3 to go play at #1, while #2 gets to host #8.  It's just hard to get used to eating crumbs from the tablecloth, especially when there's so much confusion over where teams would play if they met a couple of rounds down the line, which is what I think most of us would like to be able to infer from a bracket.

Secondly, I was glad to see Division III football get a little bit of coverage on TV, and I'm glad that they had you on there, Pat, because it meant that we viewers could be confident that somebody on there knew their stuff.  I wish they hadn't rushed us through everything so fast, and it would have been much better if they had you and K-Mack on there for about an hour to break things down a little bit more, but again, we are beggars at the table.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 14, 2005, 07:13:26 AM
Just a thought on seeding.  Texas High School football does not seed nor do you automatically get homefield advantage.  Districts are grouped geographically and you play based on that.  Many times, very good teams meet early in the playoffs.  Doesn't make the NCAA brackets any easier to understand, but it is not unique.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 14, 2005, 08:37:42 AM
Bill,

That reminds me of my senior year in high school.  Our football team was clearly an underdog the whole way through the playoffs...had road games in both regional games.  Then, come state semis, we play the undefeated, Number 1 team in the state, and we got a home game.

I don't understand how we did, but we didn't complain...just went on to win the game before losing in the state finals. 

It'd be nice if the NCAA could do a little better than high school football.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 14, 2005, 08:45:46 AM
I agree with you Mizzou.  If the high schools can't agree on a site, they flip a coin.  I just wish we had some idea of how the teams are seeded.  Doesn't make much sense with the emphasis on regional rankings.  I do understand that geography trumps everything else, but that doesn't appear to be as important after the first round.  Or is it?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bwana on November 14, 2005, 10:08:08 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 13, 2005, 09:24:01 PM
Bwana, Bridgewater could have used another in-region game playing a team with at least a .500 record.

A road win over a .500 team would have given you 13 pts, or raised your QOWI to 10.778. a road win over a .667 team would have given you 15 QOWI pts and raised the QOWI to 11.000 and a9-0 in-region record.
Ralph-

Again, thank you the explanation..it illustrates just how tight the playoff calculations are!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: tTU719803 on November 14, 2005, 10:54:12 AM
In the end, I guess HSU got UMHB...when they lost, they lost not only their playoff bid but a first round home game for UMHB as well.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: pakownr97 on November 14, 2005, 11:05:56 AM
Quote from: ttu719803 on November 14, 2005, 10:54:12 AM
In the end, I guess HSU got UMHB...when they lost, they lost not only their playoff bid but a first round home game for UMHB as well.

TTU,

I totally agree.  Maybe they lost on purpose because they hate UMHB so much, LOL!!
;D

I know I'm being stupid, but I do it so well.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bwana on November 14, 2005, 11:21:46 AM
Quote from: pakownr97 on November 14, 2005, 11:05:56 AM
Quote from: ttu719803 on November 14, 2005, 10:54:12 AM
In the end, I guess HSU got UMHB...when they lost, they lost not only their playoff bid but a first round home game for UMHB as well.

TTU,

I totally agree.  Maybe they lost on purpose because they hate UMHB so much, LOL!!
;D

I know I'm being stupid, but I do it so well.


Well, from BC one old timer to another, and to quote Lamar Neal, "Always play to your Strengths!"
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 14, 2005, 12:50:41 PM
Here are the official SR seeds:

South Bracket (seeded No. 4)
   
at 1. Trinity (Texas) (9-0)
3. Mary Hardin-Baylor (8-1) 

7. Ferrum (9-1)
at 4 Wesley (9-1) 

at 5. Bridgewater (Va.) (8-1)
6. Washington and Jefferson (9-1)   

8. Johns Hopkins (8-2)
at 2. Thiel (10-0) 


Congrats, BC.  You got the home game UMHB deserved.   
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: PittTBCW on November 14, 2005, 01:36:50 PM
By the way good job Pat on the show on Sunday!!!

Glad DIII football was getting some spotlight!!!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: narch on November 14, 2005, 01:47:22 PM
looking at those seeds, i had a thought - maybe, when the ncaa finally adopts a d1a playoff of some sort, they'll take some of the BILLIONS of $$$ it would generate and spend it on a few plane tickets for the d3 playoffs...ah, who am i kidding, there will never be a d1a playoff, and if there is, the ncaa will NEVER spend that money on the d3 playoffs...sorry to interrupt
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: ThielFan on November 14, 2005, 01:49:47 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger (BfB) on November 14, 2005, 12:50:41 PM
Here are the official SR seeds:

South Bracket (seeded No. 4)

at 1. Trinity (Texas) (9-0)
3. Mary Hardin-Baylor (8-1)

7. Ferrum (9-1)
at 4 Wesley (9-1)

at 5. Bridgewater (Va.) (8-1)
6. Washington and Jefferson (9-1)

8. Johns Hopkins (8-2)
at 2. Thiel (10-0)


Now we have the seedings... at least now we can figure out who might play whom and where!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 14, 2005, 01:53:00 PM
Thanks, guys -- I enjoyed the experience and yes, it would've been great to get more time, but to be realistic, we were lucky to get the time we had. The 17 minutes we were on-air (which excludes commercials) was the most they have given D-III football so far in three years. We were even 45 seconds over budget. :)

I'll blog about the experience later at some point. Still getting the to-do list lightened up.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Jeremybozz on November 14, 2005, 02:14:15 PM
So the BC/W&J winner will play the Thiel/JHU winner right? I do not think they re-seed the teams after the 1st round.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: pakownr97 on November 14, 2005, 02:23:24 PM
That's right, Jeremy.  But I still don't understand why BC would play at Thiel while the higher seeded Wesley draws Trinity.  All of this assumes the home team (higher seed) wins the first round.

Seems to me it should be BC playing at Trinity and Wesly at Thiel in the second, of course, assuming the same thing.

But I'm happy.

:)

Go BC!

Here's to a well officiated first round!
Title: Re: Week 1 South Region playoff games
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 14, 2005, 02:25:09 PM
... ping ...
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 14, 2005, 02:29:31 PM
Quote from: pakownr97 on November 14, 2005, 02:23:24 PM
That's right, Jeremy.  But I still don't understand why BC would play at Thiel while the higher seeded Wesley draws Trinity.  All of this assumes the home team (higher seed) wins the first round.

Seems to me it should be BC playing at Trinity and Wesly at Thiel in the second, of course, assuming the same thing.

But I'm happy.

:)

Go BC!

Here's to a well officiated first round!

The brackets are set.  They are not RE-SET after the first round.

The seedings are set, then matchups moved to accomodate Geographic Proximity.

After the first round games, the seedings determine home sites.

Despite what we may have heard yesterday, if UMHB wins, they host in Round 2 the Ferrum/Wesley winner. (correction from a brain freeze, soory Pat)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 14, 2005, 02:31:10 PM
My hypothetical yesterday included nothing about Trinity winning, Bob.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: dballa on November 14, 2005, 02:36:16 PM
So WHEN UMHB beats Trinity, they should get to host the 2nd round game correct?  And should they win that game and should Thiel lose one of their 1st or 2nd round games, UMHB would host a Quarterfinal game right?  Since they are seeded higher than any of those other teams left?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 14, 2005, 02:44:50 PM
Given those assumptions, yes. 
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 14, 2005, 03:03:20 PM
Trinity would have the home field through the first three rounds, I think.  Whoever comes out of the South goes to Linfield.  Who hosts if Linfield is knocked off?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: religion_major on November 14, 2005, 03:06:38 PM
The west is seeded higher so if the seeds are equal then the west cham hosts.  If say UMHB plays Oxy UMHB would host since they have a higher seed. 
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: cruprez on November 14, 2005, 03:52:08 PM
Might I add this quote in response to the comment about HSU hating UMHB so bad that they might have lost on purpose..."Your House or Our House, it doesn't matter!"   Remember last year, the CRU self-proclaimed themselves "The Road Dawgs"--all their games were on the road and they still took care of business!  that's exactly what has to happen this year, one game at a time, one step at a time...either home or away- it doesn't matter...you can be sure they will show up and play one tough game where ever they are!

GO CRU
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 14, 2005, 03:59:39 PM
Who were the pool C selections? 
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on November 14, 2005, 04:01:53 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 14, 2005, 02:31:10 PM
My hypothetical yesterday included nothing about Trinity winning, Bob.

Yes but you did mention a "sleeper" team in Wesley who would play on Wesley's fieldturf if they both won in the first round. Correct? I assume that with the seedings now posted that that game would be played in Texas.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 14, 2005, 04:05:52 PM
I'm amazed that the east bracket is seeded 2nd, ahead of the north and the south. 
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 14, 2005, 04:07:10 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 14, 2005, 02:31:10 PM
My hypothetical yesterday included nothing about Trinity winning, Bob.

Sorry, Pat.  Brain freeze.  If/when UMHB wins, THEY host Ferrum/Wesley winner.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: pakownr97 on November 14, 2005, 04:08:36 PM
CRU,

I was only kidding.  I am a BC alum, but we ALL know you guys got scrood (Pat, can I say it phonetically) again.

Don't wanna get you purple guys all stirred up, LOL.

Good luck.  Until you meet BC!

:)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 14, 2005, 04:10:26 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger (BfB) on November 14, 2005, 12:50:41 PM
[...]
Congrats, BC.  You got the home game UMHB deserved.   

Your last couple DD and PP posts have been a bit on the frustrated/sarcastic side.

Look at it this way ... MHB has to travel all of two hours to San Antonio, to romp (at least Born-Power is picking the Crusaders by three TDs) the Tigers, then travel back home to host Wesley, then probably host Bridgewater or W&J.  And if they are the south region rep, they would have had to travel to Linfield (if they are the west region rep) anyway (regardless of seed).

So what's the big deal?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: pakownr97 on November 14, 2005, 04:12:18 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on November 14, 2005, 04:05:52 PM
I'm amazed that the east bracket is seeded 2nd, ahead of the north and the south. 

I agree, Bill.  The East is definitely the weakest bracket.  It should be:

1.  West
2.  North
3.  South
4.  East

I don't see how anyone without bias could think otherwise.

Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on November 14, 2005, 04:12:47 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on November 14, 2005, 04:05:52 PM
I'm amazed that the east bracket is seeded 2nd, ahead of the north and the south. 

Yup! The East is the only region with 4 unranked D3Football.com Top 25 teams. And if you follow Pat's note that it is based on the Top seed then the AFCA coaches poll has Delaware Valley at #9. Guess who is #6? Yes Trinity the number 1 seed in the South. Not to mention the number 2 seeds in both the South & North (UMHB & Mt. Union) are #7 and #8, respectively. Once again, the NCAA committee screwed it up.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 14, 2005, 04:13:09 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on November 14, 2005, 03:59:39 PM
Who were the pool C selections? 

7 C's
Wilkes (East)
Cortland State (East)
North Central (North)
Central (West)
Hobart (East)
Concordia-Moorhead (West)
Capital (North)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 14, 2005, 04:15:38 PM
Quote from: eh ... just call me 'kid' on November 14, 2005, 04:10:26 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger (BfB) on November 14, 2005, 12:50:41 PM
[...]
Congrats, BC.  You got the home game UMHB deserved.   

So what's the big deal?

When BC gets screwed out of a first round home game almost every year, perhaps you will understand.  Of course, you'd have to be in the top half of the bracket most every year to begin with. 

Why should MHB fans constantly have to make a road trip, even a "short" one?   There are a lot of people who aren't able to waste six hours on the road to take in a game. 
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 14, 2005, 04:16:58 PM
3 C selections from the east is incredible.  I don't get that.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 14, 2005, 04:18:45 PM
Ron, I'm just glad UMHB got in the playoffs.  2003 was the worst!  Sorry you have to drive so far for the game.  It's in my backyard, so I'm going to enjoy it again this year! :) Based on the 3 C selections in the east, HSU has got a real beef.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 14, 2005, 04:30:27 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on November 14, 2005, 04:18:45 PM
Ron, I'm just glad UMHB got in the playoffs.  2003 was the worst!  Sorry you have to drive so far for the game.  It's in my backyard, so I'm going to enjoy it again this year! :) Based on the 3 C selections in the east, HSU has got a real beef.

Bill, I like most things you post, but what's HSU's beef?

HSU has a .778 regional winning percentage.  Nobody in any serious consideration had lower. (Cortland, by the way, had the same).

HSU has a 9.556 QOWI, the LOWEST among the D3 Dozen!
HSU's only game against a team IN the tournament, they lost to UMHB 38-7.

Wilkes has a higher regional winning percentage AND a higher QOWI.
Wilkes only game against a team IN the tournament, they lost to Del. Vall. 17-14.

Capital has a higher regional winning percentage AND a higher QOWI.
Capital's only game against a team IN the tournament, they lost to Mt. Union, 42-24.

Cortland has the same regional winning percentage, a higher QOWI AND a win against a regionally ranked opponent (Ithaca). Cortland also lost to Rowan, another tournament team, 24-16.

WHAT'S HSU's beef?
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 14, 2005, 04:32:26 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger (BfB) on November 14, 2005, 04:15:38 PM
Quote from: eh ... just call me 'kid' on November 14, 2005, 04:10:26 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger (BfB) on November 14, 2005, 12:50:41 PM
[...]
Congrats, BC.  You got the home game UMHB deserved.   

So what's the big deal?

When BC gets screwed out of a first round home game almost every year, perhaps you will understand.  Of course, you'd have to be in the top half of the bracket most every year to begin with. 

Why should MHB fans constantly have to make a road trip, even a "short" one?   There are a lot of people who aren't able to waste six hours on the road to take in a game. 

Like I said, if things play out the way it looks like it should (on paper), MHB will get two home games.  Enjoy just being in the playoffs.  If BC had to travel to Thiel or if we were shipped to the East Region, those who could (financially, time-wise) would pack up and go ... fair or not.  Those who couldn't make it can listen to it on a local station or via the net.

I just don't see this as harp-worthy.  Talk to Linfield who has to face the #6-ranked team in the country first round.  Talk to Monmouth who went undefeated and has to travel 477 miles.  Talk to Alfred who should have made the playoffs (criteria-wise) but is sitting at home.

Beat Howard Payne and this wouldn't be a problem.  Had BC not gotten a home game, it wouldn't have been the NCAA's fault.  We didn't get it done versus McDaniel.
Title: Re: Week 1 South Region playoff games
Post by: frank uible on November 14, 2005, 05:14:24 PM
How in the hell did Thiel get in the South Region? It's an hour and a half from Cleveland! I know... I know the answer, but this is ridiculous.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 14, 2005, 05:38:40 PM

Despite being ranked in the top ten at the end of three of the last four regular seasons, the 2004 national runner-up has never been granted a home playoff game by the NCAA.  And each time they have made the playoffs, their seed was high enough under normal circumstances to merit a home game. 

I understand why Oxy and Linfield fans are unhappy; I think they should be, and it's the same friggin' reason why I'm unhappy.  But it hasn't happened to them three out of the last four years.  Like I said earlier, it's really easy to pooh-pooh this when you're not the ones impacted.  The NCAA would pair these teams up even if they were #1 and #2  in the country (by whatever measure) just so they could save a plane trip.   

BC is the (innocent) beneficiary of the NCAA's stupidity.  I'm not mad at BC, you didn't do anything to deserve it, but that's the whole point.  You're getting a home game that belongs to someone else.    If it was W&J or Ferrum or anyone seeded 5-8 I would say the exact same thing to them. 
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: miz on November 14, 2005, 05:47:25 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger (BfB) on November 14, 2005, 05:38:40 PM

  • 2002:  Undefeated UMHB is the fifth-ranked team in the country.  The NCAA ships them to #4 Trinity in the first round.  UMHB loses 48-38.
  • 2003: UMHB, at 9-1, is not invited to the playoffs.
  • 2004: In a similar situation to this season, UMHB loses a game (to HSU) and is shipped to San Antonio.  Ranked #8 in the country, they are shipped to #7 Trinity and this time pull away to win, 32-13.   
  • 2005: #4 UMHB gets to go to #8 Trinity for the third time in four years.  This could be the toughest matchup in the whole bracket, and it's going to happen in the first round. 

Despite being ranked in the top ten at the end of three of the last four regular seasons, the 2004 national runner-up has never been granted a home playoff game by the NCAA. 

I understand why Oxy and Linfield fans are unhappy; I think they should be, and it's the same friggin' reason why I'm unhappy.  But it hasn't happened to them three out of the last four years.  Like I said earlier, it's really easy to pooh-pooh this when you're not the ones impacted.  The NCAA would pair these teams up even if they were #1 and #2  in the country (by whatever measure) just so they could save a plane trip.   

BC is the (innocent) beneficiary of the NCAA's stupidity.  I'm not mad at BC, you didn't do anything to deserve it, but that's the whole point.  You're getting a home game that belongs to someone else.    If it was W&J I would say the exact same thing to them. 

Based on this season's results (which is what the pairing are based on) explain to me why MHB "deserves it" so much compared to BC and W&J?  They lost by 4 TD's to a non-playoff team.  W&J lost a much closer game to an undefeated playoff squad.  BC 2005 performance is comparable to MHB, not better or worse. 

Again, like kid said, if you beat the teams you should have beaten than it would be a non-issue.  You lose (like BC and W&J did also) and it becomes much more subjective. 

And the fact that MHB got to the Stagg Bowl last year is great (it really is great, that is not meant to be a sarcastic statement), but it doesn't mean anything in terms of this season. 
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: imad3fanatic on November 14, 2005, 05:53:49 PM
Quote from: miz on November 14, 2005, 05:47:25 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger (BfB) on November 14, 2005, 05:38:40 PM

  • 2002:  Undefeated UMHB is the fifth-ranked team in the country.  The NCAA ships them to #4 Trinity in the first round.  UMHB loses 48-38.
  • 2003: UMHB, at 9-1, is not invited to the playoffs.
  • 2004: In a similar situation to this season, UMHB loses a game (to HSU) and is shipped to San Antonio.  Ranked #8 in the country, they are shipped to #7 Trinity and this time pull away to win, 32-13.   
  • 2005: #4 UMHB gets to go to #8 Trinity for the third time in four years.  This could be the toughest matchup in the whole bracket, and it's going to happen in the first round. 

Despite being ranked in the top ten at the end of three of the last four regular seasons, the 2004 national runner-up has never been granted a home playoff game by the NCAA. 

I understand why Oxy and Linfield fans are unhappy; I think they should be, and it's the same friggin' reason why I'm unhappy.  But it hasn't happened to them three out of the last four years.  Like I said earlier, it's really easy to pooh-pooh this when you're not the ones impacted.  The NCAA would pair these teams up even if they were #1 and #2  in the country (by whatever measure) just so they could save a plane trip.   

BC is the (innocent) beneficiary of the NCAA's stupidity.  I'm not mad at BC, you didn't do anything to deserve it, but that's the whole point.  You're getting a home game that belongs to someone else.    If it was W&J I would say the exact same thing to them. 

Based on this season's results (which is what the pairing are based on) explain to me why MHB "deserves it" so much compared to BC and W&J?  They lost by 4 TD's to a non-playoff team.  W&J lost a much closer game to an undefeated playoff squad.  BC 2005 performance is comparable to MHB, not better or worse. 

Again, like kid said, if you beat the teams you should have beaten than it would be a non-issue.  You lose (like BC and W&J did also) and it becomes much more subjective. 

And the fact that MHB got to the Stagg Bowl last year is great (it really is great, that is not meant to be a sarcastic statement), but it doesn't mean anything in terms of this season. 
[/quote

UMHB lost by 4 points to Howard Payne and they led in the game until the last minute.
Howard Payne finished 7/3 and tied HSU for 2bd in the ASC.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 14, 2005, 06:02:34 PM
Quote from: miz on November 14, 2005, 05:47:25 PM

Based on this season's results (which is what the pairing are based on) explain to me why MHB "deserves it" so much compared to BC and W&J?  They lost by 4 TD's to a non-playoff team.  W&J lost a much closer game to an undefeated playoff squad.  BC 2005 performance is comparable to MHB, not better or worse. 

1.  Because the NCAA's own seeding/ranking process said so.  You know that 3 is better than either 5 or 6?
2.  They lost on a last-second TD pass to a 7-3 team, not by "four touchdowns."   Good try. 

Quote
Again, like kid said, if you beat the teams you should have beaten than it would be a non-issue.  You lose (like BC and W&J did also) and it becomes much more subjective. 

See 2002 above.  When they did, they got shipped to SA.  And even had UMHB won out this year, #2 seed Trinity would have been shipped to #1 seed UMHB.  That is just as bad (actually, worse). 

Quote
And the fact that MHB got to the Stagg Bowl last year is great (it really is great, that is not meant to be a sarcastic statement), but it doesn't mean anything in terms of this season. 

The fact that a three-time top ten team has never had a home playoff game is much more significant, I agree. 

While I am using UMHB as the most egregious example of the NCAA screwing teams, don't be mistaken.   What I am really complaining about is the fact that highly ranked teams in Texas will not ever get a fair shake in the playoff process until the NCAA changes the way it looks at playoffs.  That may be never, but that doesn't make it right. 
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Kelly Boggs on November 14, 2005, 06:16:09 PM
miz,

FYI: UMHB lost by 4 points to HPU, not 4 TD's.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 14, 2005, 06:18:18 PM
Bob.Gregg, I don't think the east teams are nearly as strong as HSU and 3 of them got pool C invites.  HSU is in if they beat TLU, so most of the problem is their own doing. :)  I would like to have seen them get in.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 14, 2005, 06:24:14 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger (BfB) on November 14, 2005, 06:02:34 PM
[...]
While I am using UMHB as the most egregious example of the NCAA screwing teams, don't be mistaken.   What I am really complaining about is the fact that highly ranked teams in Texas will not ever get a fair shake in the playoff process until the NCAA changes the way it looks at playoffs.  That may be never, but that doesn't make it right. 

Try looking at it this way ... had the south region been 1-8, 2-7, 3-6, and 4-5 w/ the matchups, then MHB (being the third seed) would have a home game (against W&J).  If they won, and Thiel beat Ferrum, then MHB would have to travel to Thiel (away from home).  If they won that and Trinity won their two games, then MHB would once again have to play a game away from home.

But with it 1-3, 4-7, 2-8, and 5-6, MHB is away from home in the first round.  If they win, then they get to host either Ferrum or Wesley.  If they win that, they would more than likely face W&J or Bridgewater (another home game).

So in the scenario they actually have, they more than likely will get two home games before flying out west.  In the 1-8, 2-7, 3-6, 4-5 scenario, you'd likely get one home game.

This might actually benefit them.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 14, 2005, 06:33:19 PM
I don't know Ron, UMHB did pretty good last year on the road. :)  They are a superstitious bunch and wore all white uniforms for every game in the playoffs.  Can the home team choose to wear white? :)  Go CRU!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: miz on November 14, 2005, 07:07:07 PM
Quote from: UMHBalum-n-Catland on November 14, 2005, 06:16:09 PM
miz,

FYI: UMHB lost by 4 points to HPU, not 4 TD's.

Yes, I see that now.  I don't know what I was looking at. 
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 14, 2005, 07:14:39 PM
Quote from: Llamaguy on November 14, 2005, 04:01:53 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 14, 2005, 02:31:10 PM
My hypothetical yesterday included nothing about Trinity winning, Bob.

Yes but you did mention a "sleeper" team in Wesley who would play on Wesley's fieldturf if they both won in the first round. Correct? I assume that with the seedings now posted that that game would be played in Texas.

Yes, now that we have actual seedings, that's out the window.

However, UMHB does have field turf also.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 14, 2005, 07:19:14 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on November 14, 2005, 06:18:18 PM
Bob.Gregg, I don't think the east teams are nearly as strong as HSU and 3 of them got pool C invites.  HSU is in if they beat TLU, so most of the problem is their own doing. :)  I would like to have seen them get in.

No issue whatsoever with your liking "to have seen them (HSU) get in."

But there is a system for evaluation in place.  Under that given system, HSU's on-field performance didn't match Cortland's, or Wilkes', or Hobart's.

You may well have an argument ABOUT the system, but there isn't an argument to be made about the system's application!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 14, 2005, 07:21:06 PM
Quote from: eh ... just call me 'kid' on November 14, 2005, 06:24:14 PM...But with it 1-3, 4-7, 2-8, and 5-6, MHB is away from home in the first round.  If they win, then they get to host either Ferrum or Wesley.  If they win that, they would more than likely face W&J or Bridgewater (another home game).

So in the scenario they actually have, they more than likely will get two home games before flying out west.  In the 1-8, 2-7, 3-6, 4-5 scenario, you'd likely get one home game.

This might actually benefit them.

I'm sure undefeated Thiel's players and fans might find one little piece of your scenario objectionable....
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 14, 2005, 07:25:49 PM
Finally, somehow, people around these boards continue to be surprised by the NCAA insistence on using the "Geographic Proximity" clause as it regards to matchups.

Disdain for the provision is acceptable.
Hatred (while a dangerous emotion) is understandable.

Surprise, particularly out of any board regular is just "head in the sand".  ('They won't do it to us.  I know what it says, but our ranking's so strong they'll have to do something else.)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Toby Taff on November 14, 2005, 08:23:46 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 14, 2005, 07:25:49 PM
Finally, somehow, people around these boards continue to be surprised by the NCAA insistence on using the "Geographic Proximity" clause as it regards to matchups.

Disdain for the provision is acceptable.
Hatred (while a dangerous emotion) is understandable.

Surprise, particularly out of any board regular is just "head in the sand".  ('They won't do it to us.  I know what it says, but our ranking's so strong they'll have to do something else.)

I think for most of us its more disgust.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: historymajor on November 14, 2005, 09:01:09 PM
Maybe the problem is the 'regions' themselves.... I've long complained that the 'south' region got changed forever when the ASC grew into it's current proportions.... the south extends from PA to West TX... The west covers all of CA as far east as 'some' of the WI schools, while others are in the North. Pat has mentioned that Lakeland and Whitewater are in different regions.... Maybe now with 32 teams they should consider trying to balance things out in 8 regions. Maybe the regions need to be dynamic and be 're-drawn' after the top 32 teams are identified, and 1-32 has been established and strength of region/travel/? could be factored in...
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: PittTBCW on November 14, 2005, 09:08:23 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 14, 2005, 07:21:06 PM
Quote from: eh ... just call me 'kid' on November 14, 2005, 06:24:14 PM...But with it 1-3, 4-7, 2-8, and 5-6, MHB is away from home in the first round.  If they win, then they get to host either Ferrum or Wesley.  If they win that, they would more than likely face W&J or Bridgewater (another home game).

So in the scenario they actually have, they more than likely will get two home games before flying out west.  In the 1-8, 2-7, 3-6, 4-5 scenario, you'd likely get one home game.

This might actually benefit them.



I'm sure undefeated Thiel's players and fans might find one little piece of your scenario objectionable....


Never under estimate the Cardiac Cats especially @ home!!!

Very balanced, tested, great chemistry, great defense, very strong oline and rb's.....you never know thats why they line up and play every game every Saturday!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: religion_major on November 14, 2005, 09:17:52 PM
Welcome to the playoffs Thiel fans.  Most any team can beat any other team in this region.  Thiel may be undefeated, but even if Hopkins does not give Thiel much of a game I will promise you that the winner of the BC and W&J game will give Thiel a run for their money.
Title: Re: Week 1 South Region playoff games
Post by: badbadman on November 14, 2005, 09:41:31 PM
frank - on a straight line (through Lake Erie) it's only about 100 miles to Canada!  I guess it is South if you live in Matagami, Quebec.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: PittTBCW on November 14, 2005, 10:05:15 PM
I agree. Any team can give any team a run for their money each and every week especially in the playoffs. Win or go home....why in the heck do the big boys not have a playoff system....I can not wait for Saturday!
Title: Re: Week 1 South Region playoff games
Post by: Amish Allstar on November 14, 2005, 10:55:40 PM
South is a strange mix of regions, teams and leagues.  Ohio to Texas to Penn.  very very weird.
Title: Re: Week 1 South Region playoff games
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 14, 2005, 11:43:42 PM
With 32 teams selected now, why doesn't the AA smiply organize FB into EIGHT regions?  Sounds simple enough ... and similar to what they do in other sports like bball. 

West
Southwest
Upper Midwest
Midwest
Middle Atlantic
New England
Ohio Valley
Something else ...
Title: Re: Week 1 South Region playoff games
Post by: Toby Taff on November 14, 2005, 11:47:22 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger (BfB) on November 14, 2005, 11:43:42 PM
With 32 teams selected now, why doesn't the AA smiply organize FB into EIGHT regions?  Sounds simple enough ... and similar to what they do in other sports like bball. 

West
Southwest
Upper Midwest
Midwest
Middle Atlantic
New England
Ohio Valley
Something else ...

Something else to AA would probably= Texas! ;D
Title: Re: Week 1 South Region playoff games
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 15, 2005, 01:28:36 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger (BfB) on November 14, 2005, 11:43:42 PM
With 32 teams selected now, why doesn't the AA smiply organize FB into EIGHT regions?  Sounds simple enough ... and similar to what they do in other sports like bball. 

West
Southwest
Upper Midwest
Midwest
Middle Atlantic
New England
Ohio Valley
Something else ...


With only 221 non-NESCAC schools, though, that would decrease regional game opportunities. And for football, played almost exclusively on Saturdays, there's no reason to discourage travel by limiting movement like that.
Title: Re: Week 1 South Region playoff games
Post by: frank uible on November 15, 2005, 04:53:38 AM
badbadman: Probably fewer than one hundred miles since a large part of Lake Erie is in Canada!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: ThielFan on November 15, 2005, 08:26:40 AM
Quote from: religion_major on November 14, 2005, 09:17:52 PM
Welcome to the playoffs Thiel fans.  Most any team can beat any other team in this region.  Thiel may be undefeated, but even if Hopkins does not give Thiel much of a game I will promise you that the winner of the BC and W&J game will give Thiel a run for their money.

This is no surprise to any Thiel fans that have paid any attention this season.  After all, we did have to win three of our road games in overtime, and many teams that were supposed "pushovers" gave Thiel a strong challenge.  I don't think that Thiel is planning to come in and walk over anybody, they know how much hard work will be necessary to have a chance to win any of these games, including Hopkins.
Title: Re: Week 1 South Region playoff games
Post by: ThielFan on November 15, 2005, 08:30:35 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 15, 2005, 01:28:36 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger (BfB) on November 14, 2005, 11:43:42 PM
With 32 teams selected now, why doesn't the AA smiply organize FB into EIGHT regions?  Sounds simple enough ... and similar to what they do in other sports like bball. 

West
Southwest
Upper Midwest
Midwest
Middle Atlantic
New England
Ohio Valley
Something else ...


With only 221 non-NESCAC schools, though, that would decrease regional game opportunities. And for football, played almost exclusively on Saturdays, there's no reason to discourage travel by limiting movement like that.

Good call, Pat... I was about to say that would make the regional ranking system that much more difficult come playoff time with a more limited number of regional contests, and we know that the NCAA struggles enough trying to get things right in the current situation! ;)
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 15, 2005, 08:54:00 AM
For all the fans in the playoffs for the first time, enjoy the experience.  Last year, following UMHB was the most fun I've had in a football season since I was in high school.  Nothing compares to the excitement of the playoffs.  Win or go home!  We were fortunate enough to see some very nice parts of the country.  It was a scramble every Saturday night and Sunday trying to figure out how we were going to get to the next game.  Good luck to everyone.

If only D1 could do this!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: cruprez on November 15, 2005, 09:05:18 AM
Bill
  I agree with you...the ride with UMHB last year was a BLAST!  We would rush back to the hotel room to begin searching for flights to the next destination.  We saw Penn, Ohio, and VA....beautiful parts of the country.  This year we started at Salem, Oregon, again, a beautiful place to see.  For all in the playoffs, take time to go to the games..Last year's Christmas was to sit and look at the scrapbook I made about the football season but it was well worth every dime!
  This is my son's senior year and you bet we will be there again at every game.....GO CRU
Title: Re: Week 1 South Region playoff games
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 15, 2005, 09:20:33 AM
Yeah, I realized at some point last night that this was really a pretty stupid idea.  Oh well. 
Title: Re: Week 1 South Region playoff games
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 15, 2005, 09:23:28 AM
Ron, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea if the best 32 teams were going into the playoffs, including automatic qualifiers, and then placed into the regions.  Why couldn't the indexes be used to rank the teams nationally?  I would like to see the best remaining teams get the Pool C bids, regardless of their region.  Seems to work for March Madness.  I understand D 3 doesn't have the money, but it should be workable.
Title: Re: Week 1 South Region playoff games
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 15, 2005, 09:34:38 AM
"I would like to see the best remaining teams get the Pool C bids, regardless of their region."

Based on WHAT measure?

What is the best measuring stick for evaluation of teams that not only didn't play each other, but didn't play anybody that each other played?


Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 15, 2005, 09:36:38 AM
Quote from: PittTBCW on November 14, 2005, 10:05:15 PM
....I can not wait for Saturday!...

Don't rush it, PittTBCW.  Enjoy the moments one at a time.

When the end comes, it's a long, dark and dreary wait for next September.

Don't be in any hurry to move Saturday here any quicker.
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: pakownr97 on November 15, 2005, 11:59:52 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 15, 2005, 09:36:38 AM
Quote from: PittTBCW on November 14, 2005, 10:05:15 PM
....I can not wait for Saturday!...

Don't rush it, PittTBCW.  Enjoy the moments one at a time.

When the end comes, it's a long, dark and dreary wait for next September.

Don't be in any hurry to move Saturday here any quicker.

Bob,

That almost sounds like a concession speech.  Are you giving up on your Presidents? 

Just kidding.

Please come join us at Stone Station on Saturday.  We won't bite.  Well, maybe.  But anyway, come on in and talk to us before the game.  We will welcome you as our guest...except during the game.  LOL!

Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 15, 2005, 12:06:40 PM
I appreciate the invite, but I'll ask that you treat Mark Uriah to the benefits of being your guest.  I'll be at Heinz Field, calling two District High School championship games.  (It was a very difficult decision for me, but this is the way we've almost always done it when HS/NCAA games clash on our broadcast schedule).

As far as conceeding, I'm not giving up on the Presidents at all.

It's just that I've enjoyed this time of year 17 of the past 21 seasons!  That's a little more experience than most people on this site.  And I was trying to share with the rookies (specifically Thiel folks) to savour the moment, enjoy the ride.

The end is empty and awful when it comes.  Don't rush it!
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: pakownr97 on November 15, 2005, 12:17:52 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 15, 2005, 12:06:40 PM
I appreciate the invite, but I'll ask that you treat Mark Uriah to the benefits of being your guest.  I'll be at Heinz Field, calling two District High School championship games.  (It was a very difficult decision for me, but this is the way we've almost always done it when HS/NCAA games clash on our broadcast schedule).

As far as conceeding, I'm not giving up on the Presidents at all.

It's just that I've enjoyed this time of year 17 of the past 21 seasons!  That's a little more experience than most people on this site.  And I was trying to share with the rookies (specifically Thiel folks) to savour the moment, enjoy the ride.

The end is empty and awful when it comes.  Don't rush it!

Bob,

We know that from last year.  Not to mention its a long ride home.

We will welcome Mark Uriah and any other W & J fans to our beautiful albeit small campus.  Please stop by and share our hospitality.  Llamaguy, Skoaltrain, Olinemom, Kid and the others (sorry to anyone I missed, especially my friend who made the ribs last week and the unknown {wink, wink} parents, oops, I mean persons who made the shrimp).

You are going to miss a heckova game.

BC 113
W&J  111


Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: pakownr97 on November 15, 2005, 12:19:37 PM
That's right.  The official over/under on this game is 224 points.
;D
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 15, 2005, 12:28:43 PM
Just a little fun with Massey Ratings and the respective brackets:


Bracket   Top 10     Top 20    Top 50          Avg 
West         5          6         8          10.625
South        0          3         5          38.000
North        3          5         6          26.500
East         0          0         6          55.250

(8-2 St. Olaf and !6-4! UW-Eau Claire are the two Massey top-ten teams sitting at home, in case you're wondering). 
Title: Re: South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 15, 2005, 02:01:56 PM
Like I said, West-heavy Massey, not just Wisconsin-heavy. :)
Title: Re: Week 1 South Region playoff games
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 16, 2005, 11:02:54 AM
one more ping to move this up the list.  Vote now ...
Title: Re: Week 1 South Region playoff games
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 16, 2005, 01:44:24 PM
Frank,

It is funny you say that because I have been thinking about that for 5 years and now it is finnally an issue because they made the playoffs for the first time.  They are actually higher North in geography than ONU, Mount, Capital, BW, Otterbien, Marietta, and the rest of the OAC schools.  An hour and some change from cleveland and the same from Pittsburgh down I 79!  They are in the PAC which most of their teams are south and Thiel is the most Northern PAC team.  Who knows though!
Title: Re: Week 1 South Region playoff games
Post by: Dutch12 on November 16, 2005, 02:16:18 PM
Not to mention for a couple years Alfred was in the PAC.  That put a team from New York in the South Region!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 17, 2005, 03:22:07 PM
I combined the two topics.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 17, 2005, 03:23:42 PM
must be pretty quiet for you to have time to combine threads......

Have a great Saturday!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 17, 2005, 05:49:45 PM
Nice article on Trinity in the San Antonio paper today.  You can access it at www.mysanantonio.com
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 17, 2005, 07:49:01 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 17, 2005, 03:23:42 PM
must be pretty quiet for you to have time to combine threads......

Have a great Saturday!

I have not had a lot of time to read the boards lately, no -- just squeezed out a little time on coffee break at work.

Doesn't take much time thanks to the software, though.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 18, 2005, 11:56:31 AM
Well, I deleted the question which included the poll, but the poll itself didn't go away.  Sigh.   Here are the results, they'll go away as soon as Pat takes care of it:

Which visiting team has the best chance of winning in Week 1:
   
Total Votes: 60
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: narch on November 18, 2005, 01:07:37 PM
here are my south region predictions (not touching other regions except in the pick 'em) for this week

trinity 31 - umhb 28 (ot) - this should be a regional final

thiel 24 - jhu 10 - both teams have solid defenses, but thiel has more offense

w&j 41 - b'water 38 - both teams have great offenses, but b'water has struggled against the pass some, and w&j throws it a lot - along with the texas game, these 2 games could be among the best of the weekend

wesley 38 - ferrum 17 - this is not the result that i WANT as a usasac fan, but it's what i think will happen - i know ferrum fans will say "fc can score 24 on anybody", but they didn't against cnu last weekend - ferrum defense is suspect to the pass and wesley has big, fast, physical receivers and they run just enough to keep you honest and guessing - wesley is also very stout against the run, and ferrum can't throw it when they NEED to (they are effective if they throw when it's not expected) - pitts is an exciting option qb, though, and he could single-handedly keep the panthers in the game
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PittTBCW on November 18, 2005, 01:27:08 PM
Narch,

Nice write ups and predictions. I think UMHB will knock off Trinity though. I agree it is a tough matchup in the first round thought it would be a good 2nd round match up though.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: narch on November 18, 2005, 01:30:56 PM
pitttbcw - i had a tough time with that one...and my (ot) prediction shows just how confident i am  ;D - i picked trinity to win the region over w&j in the pick 'em contest, though, so i felt that i had to remain true to my bracket - this is my first foray predicting games beyond the usasac...i paid a little more attention to the rest of the region this season because of the season the monarchs had...we'll see how it goes - i think i finished 32 - 12 predicting usasac games this year...not bad
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PittTBCW on November 18, 2005, 01:59:43 PM
Not bad at all!!

I hope Thiel is part of your winners this week!!!
Title: FINAL BC 30 WJ 21
Post by: Bwana on November 19, 2005, 03:19:20 PM
Helluva game!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: narch on November 19, 2005, 05:50:35 PM
2 - 2 on my predictions...ouch - i missed the toughest games...the others were cupcakes - not good

congrats to all the winners this week - that score isn't good for the usasac
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 19, 2005, 08:44:35 PM
  Wesley played a very good game today and their special teams set the tone early for a very one sided victory.  The D virtually shut down Ferrums running game and other than one nice pass and grab held Ferrums passing game ineffective.  Ferrum tried to play with eight men back in pass coverage but Wesley adjusted and ran the ball well and threw some swing passes that Ferrum couldn't. Lee had two catches today that not many receiver on any level would make.
  The game was played with a a minimum of penalties as well as the striped shirts didn't get real involved. I think there was maybe 5 penalties all day. If Wesley plays this well next week they may very well give MHB quick exit too. Maybe  Wesley's second trip to Texas will have a better ending than their last
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 19, 2005, 08:56:45 PM
The UMHB defense was incredible today.  They are big, strong and fast.  Trinity's offensive line was no match for them today.  The D has been playing like this since the Hardin-Simmons game.  Hope they do the same next week.  It will be nice to have a home game.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PittTBCW on November 19, 2005, 09:17:19 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on November 19, 2005, 08:56:45 PM
The UMHB defense was incredible today.  They are big, strong and fast.  Trinity's offensive line was no match for them today.  The D has been playing like this since the Hardin-Simmons game.  Hope they do the same next week.  It will be nice to have a home game.


For UMHB to shut down Trinity today has to be a great sign for them. I am glad they will get to host a well deserved playoff game. Congrats to UMHB and all the playoff victors today!
Title: Re: Week 1 South Region playoff games
Post by: ThielFan on November 20, 2005, 07:09:52 AM
Quote from: Dutch12 on November 16, 2005, 02:16:18 PM
Not to mention for a couple years Alfred was in the PAC.  That put a team from New York in the South Region!

I remember that, Dutch.  Alfred was a long way from all of the other PAC teams.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: firewater on November 20, 2005, 08:28:34 AM
Thiel fans beware.  Bridgewater college officials were great hosts but their fans left a lot to be desired.  Bridgewater set a place for the W and J fans to tailgate.  When we came back to the area after the game they damaged a car and stole the tailgating flag.  Their fans also destroyed the food which was provided by Bridgewater.  Guard your tailgate area this weekend or you may receive the same treatment.  What a shame it was a great ballgame played with class and the best team won.  Maybe the best team in the PAC can beat them.  Good luck
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on November 20, 2005, 10:08:48 AM
I would like to know details of your damage Firewater! I was tailgating on the otherside of the house you were behind. When I came out at halftime our tailgate Stone Station had quite a bit of food etc. blown over by the high winds. Just questioning if it could have been that as well. I can assure you that a few college students, if they did that, will not travel to Thiel and I will appologize on behalf of 99% of BC fans if it was a student who did it.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 20, 2005, 11:33:01 AM
WOW! Only 2 lower seeds won in the opening round of the playoffs, #3 UMHB and #5 Capital.  I hate to think the NCAA selection committee knew what they were doing.  What's the fun in that!  ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 20, 2005, 11:37:28 AM
Bill, and the OAC and the ASC always assume it's a typographical error when their members are listed as the lower seed! ;D

Travel safely this weekend!  Wesley fans, enjoy your trip to Central Texas!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 20, 2005, 12:12:32 PM
Ralph, I know a lot of people felt like UMHB should have been the favorite in the game, despite Trinity being the #1 seed.  It would have been interesting if they hadn't had to play in the first round.  Trinity's defense would have won them some games.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: pakownr97 on November 20, 2005, 01:09:25 PM
Quote from: firewater on November 20, 2005, 08:28:34 AM
Thiel fans beware.  Bridgewater college officials were great hosts but their fans left a lot to be desired.  Bridgewater set a place for the W and J fans to tailgate.  When we came back to the area after the game they damaged a car and stole the tailgating flag.  Their fans also destroyed the food which was provided by Bridgewater.  Guard your tailgate area this weekend or you may receive the same treatment.  What a shame it was a great ballgame played with class and the best team won.  Maybe the best team in the PAC can beat them.  Good luck

Firewater,

Another Bridgewater alum checking in to apologize for any damage to your vehicle or property.  Please try to understand that this behavior is not typical of BC people, neither fans nor students.

Like Llamaguy, I hope there is an explanation other than vandalism.

 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 20, 2005, 01:34:28 PM
Bill, part of the frustration of the "geographic proximity" is that "at least half" of the post-season losses on the front page right side bar for the SCAC (TU) and the ASC were inflicted by Texas schools!

The Black Flag did itself proud yesterday.  That was basically a 14-6 game!

I guess we have to settle for the consolation of establishing the pre-eminence of the "Texas Sub-bracket".  Go CRU!  Make it happen! :)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 20, 2005, 01:36:31 PM
Ralph, We really need an ASC team to pick up a Pool C bid.  Maybe Austin College and Trinity will both get in.  4 teams, nice sub bracket.  Then the winner runs the table.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: firewater on November 20, 2005, 03:07:06 PM
pakownr97 and Llamaguy thnaks.  We were treated as one of your own by everyone.  It was my fault for leaving the flag up.  It was on a telescpoic aluminum pole that attaches toa base.  Someone unscrewed the pole from the base and stole the flag.  The only reason i know this is one of the connections were shut and the other open.  Had the wind torn the flag both connections would have been open or destoyed.  I have traveled with the Presidents for four years with never a problem leaving the flag up.  Even agaisnt our PAC foes.  I was never treated better at any place as I was at Bridgewater.  You should be proud of the administration and the class of your football team and as you say 99% of your fans.  My daughter even went into the tailgate party above us and asked those attending and one young person said she did not have any evidence.  Meaning the flag or no one saw them.  I will be a Thiel looking for the flag as it is close to home plus it should be another great game.  It was red and white with my sons number on it.  I hope the person enjoys it as much as my family and friends have as it has been the sign everyone looks for when we traveled.  Just would hate to see this happen every place you go and receive a bad rap for a few.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on November 20, 2005, 04:21:01 PM
Firewater,
  I'll check with administration and ask around, if i can retrieve it I will bring it to you. I personally know how much they mean! I own the flags you guys walked right by on the way to the field, the large red and white ones. I had to personally sew them and have them lettered as I could find no one to do it for me. I usually take them down but did leave it up with no problem last year at W&J. Again I'll see if I can find it. If you are at the game Saturday, look Stone Station up as you will be welcomed with open arms. ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Olinemom on November 20, 2005, 09:05:31 PM
Quote from: firewater on November 20, 2005, 08:28:34 AM
Thiel fans beware.  Bridgewater college officials were great hosts but their fans left a lot to be desired.  Bridgewater set a place for the W and J fans to tailgate.  When we came back to the area after the game they damaged a car and stole the tailgating flag.  Their fans also destroyed the food which was provided by Bridgewater.  Guard your tailgate area this weekend or you may receive the same treatment.  What a shame it was a great ballgame played with class and the best team won.  Maybe the best team in the PAC can beat them.  Good luck
That is awful.  I hope you reported it to the Security Police there.  Never have I heard of anything like this happening on our campus!  I am ashamed and apologize.  Where did they place you'all?  I can't imagine something like this.  I will say something tomorrow when I get to school.   I have been here for 23 years and this is a first and a LOW, I might add.  This is terrible.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 20, 2005, 10:57:47 PM
Firewater,

Sorry to hear that being Thiel Alum and former player I remember seeing your flag raised high.  That not only is an aweful act of immaturity but especially to lose something that you and your family keeps close to your hearts.  Like we always say, One bad apple ruins it for everyone, and I am sure that is the case here.  I look forward to seeing everyone from VA come up to support their team and watching another quality football game. 

Being new to the NCAA playoffs I can not stand how they come in and charge for parking, jack up prices per ticket, and not let you come back in till after the 3rd quarter if you decided to leave.  Heres a disturbing fact that i read in Sports Illustrated a while back on the NCAA.  They cover all their expenses for all sports and salaries of employees for the year with the TV and commercial deals alone that it has with DIV 1 basketball.  We are at their mercy so we obide by the rules!

I guess its better to have this feeling than to never be able to experience it!  Anyone elses thoughts on how the NCAA runs their tight ship for these playoff games???? Likes, Dislikes???



Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 20, 2005, 11:15:24 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on November 20, 2005, 10:57:47 PM
Being new to the NCAA playoffs I can not stand how they come in and charge for parking, jack up prices per ticket, and not let you come back in till after the 3rd quarter if you decided to leave.

Those aren't all NCAA rules.  They only mandate a minimum (yes minimum) price per ticket, $8.  Anything else is the host school being greedy.   I've never heard or seen any "re-entry" rule, and the NCAA doesn't do diddly with parking. 

Be sure you know where to direct your outrage. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: jdean on November 20, 2005, 11:24:34 PM
Having had ther pleasure of attending all the Mount home playoff games since 1993, I can tell you that there is always one announcement before the game and before halftime: if you leave the stadium you have to buy another ticket to reenter. Every time that I can recall they've said it is an NCAA rule.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: mizzou_mafia on November 20, 2005, 11:26:03 PM
I know at the BC game this weekend, if you left, you had to pay to get back in.

Anyone know what cut of the $8 goes to the schools involved, and what goes back to the NCAA?  The attendance was marked at 2400 at the BC-W&J game, so there's almost $20K to pay for officials and the bus ride.  
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: religion_major on November 20, 2005, 11:27:48 PM
Quote from: firewater on November 20, 2005, 03:07:06 PM
pakownr97 and Llamaguy thnaks.  We were treated as one of your own by everyone.  It was my fault for leaving the flag up.  It was on a telescpoic aluminum pole that attaches toa base.  Someone unscrewed the pole from the base and stole the flag.  The only reason i know this is one of the connections were shut and the other open.  Had the wind torn the flag both connections would have been open or destoyed.  I have traveled with the Presidents for four years with never a problem leaving the flag up.  Even agaisnt our PAC foes.  I was never treated better at any place as I was at Bridgewater.  You should be proud of the administration and the class of your football team and as you say 99% of your fans.  My daughter even went into the tailgate party above us and asked those attending and one young person said she did not have any evidence.  Meaning the flag or no one saw them.  I will be a Thiel looking for the flag as it is close to home plus it should be another great game.  It was red and white with my sons number on it.  I hope the person enjoys it as much as my family and friends have as it has been the sign everyone looks for when we traveled.  Just would hate to see this happen every place you go and receive a bad rap for a few.

As a Bridgewater student, it upsets me that someone would do something like that.  I am sorry that your flags were stolen.  This is the type of senseless behavior that makes things difficult for football fans to enjoy games.  
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: spliskin on November 20, 2005, 11:28:45 PM
The ticket for the TC vs JHU game was $8 and we were told that you would have to buy another ticket to re-enter if you left the stadium as mandated by the NCAA. Personnally, I think $8 for a playoff game is very reasonable.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 20, 2005, 11:39:43 PM
Wow, learn something new.  OK, thanks.   It's interesting that you find nothing in the championship handbook about this, at least I was not able to.

The D3 football championship handbook states:

Tickets
[Reference: Tickets in the Division III General Section and Bylaw 31.1.11 in the NCAA Manual.]
An allotment of tickets will be reserved for the competing institutions.

Each competing institution will have access to 500 tickets, with no less than half of
the tickets being located between the 30-yard lines. The host institution or sponsoring
agency will retain 250 of the 500 tickets, and the competing institutions will be advised
that they are available if needed. Additional tickets may be purchased, but the seat
locations will not be guaranteed.

Admission shall be charged at all NCAA championships, unless a governing
sports committee determines that charging admission is not feasible due to facility
configuration or the expenses relative to the event's attendance history. Children under
two years of age may be admitted free if they do not occupy a seat. Ticket prices shall
be determined by the respective games committees with the approval of the governing
sports committee. Ticket prices may be "scaled" according to the location of the seats.

Faculty members shall be charged regular admission prices. Properly identified grade
school, high-school and college students may purchase admission tickets at a reduced
rate to be recommended by the governing sports committee and approved by the
divisional championships committee.
Each institution shall return all moneys and unsold tickets and inform the host
institution or sponsoring agency of the number it will require from the 250 tickets
being retained not later than 6 p.m. Thursday before the game. If the tickets are not
returned to the host institution or sponsoring agency by this time, the institution shall
be responsible for all unreturned tickets at face value. Once the competing institutions
release the tickets being retained, the host institution or sponsoring agency will use them for public sale.

Minimum Prices. The minimum ticket price for adults at preliminary rounds of the
Division III championship shall be $8. A $4 student general-admission ticket, with
student identification card, is permissible for students of participating institutions for
preliminary-round games.

Ticket prices for the national championship game are $15 for adults ($12.50 in
advance) and $5 for students. For information regarding tickets to the championship
game, contact: Marcia White, Salem Civic Center, P.O. Box 886, Salem, Virginia 24153


The Division III General Championships Handbook states only:

Tickets
[Reference: Tickets (see pages in sports-specific handbooks).]
Admission shall be charged at all NCAA championships, unless a governing
sports committee determines that charging admission is not feasible due to facility
configuration or the expense relative to the event's attendance history. The respective
games committees, with the approval of the governing sports committee, shall determine
ticket prices. Ticket prices may be "scaled" according to the location of the seats.

Faculty members shall be charged regular admission prices. Cheerleaders in uniform,
not to exceed 12 in number, and a uniformed mascot may be admitted without charge.
Properly identified grade school, high-school and college students may purchase
admission tickets at a reduced rate to be recommended by the sports committee and
approved by the Division III Championships Committee.

The solicitation of donations from spectators at an NCAA championship shall be prohibited without the prior approval of the Division III Championships Committee.


Bylaw 31.1.11 states only:

31.1.11 Admission and Tickets. Admission shall be charged at all NCAA championships unless a governing sports committee determines that charging admission is not feasible because of facility configuration or the expense relative to the event's attendance history. Ticket prices shall be respective games committees with the approval of the governing sports committee.

Can anyone cite chapter and verse for "no leaving the stadium" ??  I don't doubt it, just wonder where it's at now that I went digging to find it. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: critic on November 21, 2005, 10:11:33 AM
Anybody know how much each school makes by hosting a playoff game?  It sure woud be nice to make some money off of these playoffs to put back into each individual program. ;D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 21, 2005, 10:59:10 AM
I was a part of Bridgewater's hosting meeting last Monday, and it was Bridgewater that set the "no re-entry" rule, not the NCAA.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: pakownr97 on November 21, 2005, 12:24:40 PM
Quote from: eh ... just call me 'kid' on November 21, 2005, 10:59:10 AM
I was a part of Bridgewater's hosting meeting last Monday, and it was Bridgewater that set the "no re-entry" rule, not the NCAA.

Sounds like Ron & Kid agree it not the NCAA's, but the host school's decision on re-entry.  Doesn't matter to me, for the quality of football I've seen during the past five years of D3 playoffs, I'll gladly obay any dumb rule "they" make up to see the best entertainment $8 stinking bucks will ever buy.  Heck, I pay almost $100 per month for DirecTV, and I have not seen as much entertainment in eleven years.

So, just for you Kid, here's my stats:

DirecTV (est 100/mo X 132 mo) = $13,200

D3 Playoffs (2 adults 1 child = 20 per game X 12) = $240
+ One Stagg Bowl = $30

Uh oh, I guess I owe the NCAA $12,930.  I hope they don't know where I live. ;D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: jdean on November 21, 2005, 01:26:20 PM
I downloaded the entire 2005 DIII handbook and skimmed thru it. There is nothing in there about the re-entry rule. There seems to have been a couple minor changes to other sections so maybe the rule was deleted with the 9-15-05 update.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: firewater on November 21, 2005, 01:40:34 PM
GREAT NEWS
Brandon Wakefield has recovered my lost flag.  Thanks to everyone for their help and sincerity.  Evidently someone remembered my daughter heading into the tailgate of Bridgewater fans and Brandon took over.  Good luck to all.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: miz on November 21, 2005, 01:49:52 PM
Quote from: firewater on November 21, 2005, 01:40:34 PM
GREAT NEWS
Brandon Wakefield has recovered my lost flag.  Thanks to everyone for their help and sincerity.  Evidently someone remembered my daughter heading into the tailgate of Bridgewater fans and Brandon took over.  Good luck to all.

Nobody could have probably written a more fitting closure to the BC-W&J weekend than Wakefield saving the day in the end. 

I'm glad you got your flag back. 

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: pakownr97 on November 21, 2005, 02:02:13 PM
Quote from: firewater on November 21, 2005, 01:40:34 PM
GREAT NEWS
Brandon Wakefield has recovered my lost flag.  Thanks to everyone for their help and sincerity.  Evidently someone remembered my daughter heading into the tailgate of Bridgewater fans and Brandon took over.  Good luck to all.

That Wakefield kid is an alright guy.  Now, if we could just get him to stand on the correct side of the sidelines... ;D

Glad you got your flag back. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on November 21, 2005, 03:26:01 PM
Quote from: firewater on November 21, 2005, 01:40:34 PM
GREAT NEWS
Brandon Wakefield has recovered my lost flag.  Thanks to everyone for their help and sincerity.  Evidently someone remembered my daughter heading into the tailgate of Bridgewater fans and Brandon took over.  Good luck to all.

Great news Firewater! I was hot on their trail but didn't know he had already recovered the goods! For what its worth, it was not a current BC student who took it as far as I can tell. Guess some people take a rivalry thing a little too far. Last years loss to W&J was awful but not bad enough to do something like that. If you still come to the game Saturday stop by and say hey, we will be under the BCfootball flags with the white tent. ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bwana on November 21, 2005, 04:47:46 PM
Quote from: critic on November 21, 2005, 10:11:33 AM
Anybody know how much each school makes by hosting a playoff game?  It sure woud be nice to make some money off of these playoffs to put back into each individual program. ;D

I do not know that they get a great deal of money.

I spoke at length with Bill Miracle (Dean of Students) at Bridgewater during the BC/WJ game.  Bill said that effectively Jopson field was an NCAA enterprise zone.  All $$ from tickets, concessions, programs, souvenirs all goes to the NCAA, and then the host school gets back money.  He did not indicate how much the NCAA gave back., but I bet given how tight the NCAA is with travel $$ when they set the seeds that the school would not get back much beyond hosting costs. 

However, his explanation did answer my unspoken question as to why the Eagle Club did not run their tent during playoff games and why the Bookstore Tent was not set up in front of Memorial as per usual...
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bwana on November 21, 2005, 04:54:13 PM
Quote from: eh ... just call me 'kid' on November 21, 2005, 10:59:10 AM
I was a part of Bridgewater's hosting meeting last Monday, and it was Bridgewater that set the "no re-entry" rule, not the NCAA.

Kid-

Why did BC go w/ the no reentry?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: bcsportswriter on November 21, 2005, 04:57:24 PM
I know it isnt good to question Dean Miracle, but as far as I know all of the concession sales at the playoffs stay at school.  The baseball team and softball team split the money. it never goes to the NCAA. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 21, 2005, 04:58:32 PM
Quote from: Bwana on November 21, 2005, 04:54:13 PM
Quote from: eh ... just call me 'kid' on November 21, 2005, 10:59:10 AM
I was a part of Bridgewater's hosting meeting last Monday, and it was Bridgewater that set the "no re-entry" rule, not the NCAA.

Kid-

Why did BC go w/ the no reentry?

That's information I'm probably privy to and need to keep within the meeting.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 21, 2005, 05:22:12 PM
  Wesley also had the no reentry rule. But those fans were told it was the NCAA that mandated it.  You would think they could come up with a stamping system to let people out at half time
   BUT I also noticed that there has been a crackdown on students and fans who seemed to be under the influence. I guess that comes with the bigger crowds unfotunatly
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 21, 2005, 06:41:55 PM
OK ... a week after facing off against the dimunitive Trinity OL/DL, UMHB will have a different challenge this week.  Last week's starting lines for Wesley:

OL:  6'3", 295; 6'0", 260; 5'11, 242; 6'4", 297; 6'5", 280:  avg 6'2", 275
DL: 6'5", 255; 6'2, 327; 6'3", 238; 6'3, 287:  avg. 6'4", 277

Wesley has made 31 sacks and allowed 10 (UMHB:  43, 14)
Suffered 10 interceptions and forced 10 (UMHB: 7, 18)
Lost 10 fumbles and recovered 18 (UMHB: 11, eight)

Tale of the tape (regular season only, NCAA stats have not yet been updated):


CategoryWesleyUMHB
========================================
Total Offense408.2 (46)428.6 (33)
Total Defense259.7 (20)256.7 (17)
Rushing Offense128.3 (144)275.0 (11)
Rushing Defense86.3 (17)69.8 (7)
Passing Offense279.9 (23)153.6 (168)
Pass Eff Defense106.0 (73)99.1 (43)
Scoring Offense42.4 (9)41.3 (13)
Scoring Defense16.2 (36)9.9 (5)
Turnover Margin0.5 (65)0.8 (46)
Team Kickoff Returns22.68 (16)20.83 (47)
Team Punt Returns6.46 (167)17.03 (2)
Team Net Punting33.2 (33)37.41 (2)

Individual leaders, Wesley:

Passing Efficiency:  Chris Warrick, 151.8 (24)
Total Offense:  Warrick, 271.0 (28)
Kickoff Returns:  Larry Beavers, 23.9 (40)
Sacks:  Bryan Robinson, 1.3pg (4th)
Tackles for Loss:  Robinson, 1.7pg (27th)
Forced Fumbles:  Robinson and Mario Harris, 0.4 pg (t5th)

Individual leaders, UMHB:

All-Purpose yardage:  P. J. Williams, 141.3 (42nd)
Punt returns:  Williams, 17.8 (5th)
Punting:  Hunter Hamrick, 43.1 (1st)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PittTBCW on November 21, 2005, 07:50:01 PM
Nice Work!!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bwana on November 21, 2005, 08:19:33 PM
Quote from: eh ... just call me 'kid' on November 21, 2005, 04:58:32 PM
Quote from: Bwana on November 21, 2005, 04:54:13 PM
Quote from: eh ... just call me 'kid' on November 21, 2005, 10:59:10 AM
I was a part of Bridgewater's hosting meeting last Monday, and it was Bridgewater that set the "no re-entry" rule, not the NCAA.

Kid-

Why did BC go w/ the no reentry?

That's information I'm probably privy to and need to keep within the meeting.

Fair enough!  I assumed it had something to do with security, but I couldn't figure in what way...
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: ThielFan on November 22, 2005, 08:10:21 AM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on November 21, 2005, 05:22:12 PM
  Wesley also had the no reentry rule. But those fans were told it was the NCAA that mandated it.  You would think they could come up with a stamping system to let people out at half time
   BUT I also noticed that there has been a crackdown on students and fans who seemed to be under the influence. I guess that comes with the bigger crowds unfotunatly

The same thing was present at Thiel-Hopkins.  A sign at the gate which indicated no re-entry.  We all assumed that it was an NCAA mandate since we know that the NCAA has strict rules about their playoff games, and why else would there be a change from all of the rest of the home games?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: @d3jason on November 22, 2005, 08:11:58 AM
Ron Boerger

Any word on who will start for UMHB at QB? Welch or Padron? I noticed that Welch is still listed as the starter on their two-deep from their website, but heard that he is injured.
I've read that both are quite capable, but an interested how a change affects the Cru offense.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: narch on November 22, 2005, 08:22:19 AM
alright, i'll give this another shot - missed the w&j/b'water game and the tu/umhb game last week, so maybe i can make up for those poor picks this week

b'water 24 - thiel 17 - i had picked w&j to win here, and b'water messed that up...just a hunch that maybe i haven't been giving the eagles and the odac enough credit - playoff experience, a balanced offense, playmakers at the rb position and a defense that stiffened in it's biggest test of the season last week have me leaning toward the boys from b'water

umhb 31 - wesley 30 - reading bfb's comparison's ALMOST swayed me toward wesley, and i am rooting a bit for the wolverines since the monarchs used to play them in the early days of the acfc....this game could really go either way and i'm now officially changing my pick within this post...wesley 31 - umhb 30 in a second round upset
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: @d3jason on November 22, 2005, 08:36:30 AM
Narch
Thanks for putting the hex on wesley (after last week's picks)  ;D ;D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 22, 2005, 08:50:08 AM
Narch,

You are not the kind Lebron James is the King!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: spliskin on November 22, 2005, 09:10:23 AM
Hmmm, I thought Elvis was the King!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 22, 2005, 11:23:56 AM
Quote from: Conrad on November 22, 2005, 08:11:58 AM
Ron Boerger

Any word on who will start for UMHB at QB? Welch or Padron? I noticed that Welch is still listed as the starter on their two-deep from their website, but heard that he is injured.
I've read that both are quite capable, but an interested how a change affects the Cru offense.

Word from the front office is that, while Welsh will be evaluated during the week, he is planning to play and there is no change in the depth chart at this time. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 22, 2005, 04:52:38 PM
Key news for South Region playoff teams:

http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/?p=153
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 22, 2005, 05:43:49 PM
AKA "the NCAA tries to make up for years of snubbing UMHB."**  :)

OK, guys, just win on Saturday.

** - yes, I know that's not really the case.  Really. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 22, 2005, 06:14:08 PM
Spliskin,

Presley is definetly the first King!


Lebron is generation Y KING!


What are the odds that Thiel can get an exception for an extra home game?  Can Thiel file first timers on their Papework! jk
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bwana on November 22, 2005, 08:17:31 PM
Quote from: spliskin on November 22, 2005, 09:10:23 AM
Hmmm, I thought Elvis was the King!

truth be told, it is a geographical thing...for instance, there are parts of Texas where "Bob Wills is Still the King"

That observations goes out with an assist to the late, great Waylon Jennings.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bwana on November 22, 2005, 08:19:50 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 22, 2005, 04:52:38 PM
Key news for South Region playoff teams:

http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/?p=153

Well, another lesson learned...I had no idea you had to file paperwork for each round.

Of course, after the BC situation in 2000 I knew you had to file paperwork, but I thought it was a one time thing for the entire playoffs...

Live and learn!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 22, 2005, 10:32:20 PM
Bwana, you must have Texan in your blood!  :)

One of these days when you driving from Ft Worth to Amarillo, take State Hwy 86 west from Estelline (watch out for the Texas Highway Patrolman) for about 30 miles to Bob Wills' hometown of Turkey, TX.   It is a quiet little town and the Monument on the west side of town to Bob Wills is a beautiful fiddle atop a tall column.

Warren Thompson would understand! ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: desertcat1 on November 23, 2005, 01:47:44 AM
Quote from: Bwana on November 22, 2005, 08:17:31 PM
Quote from: spliskin on November 22, 2005, 09:10:23 AM
Hmmm, I thought Elvis was the King!

truth be told, it is a geographical thing...for instance, there are parts of Texas where "Bob Wills is Still the King"

That observations goes out with an assist to the late, great Waylon Jennings.


I agree 100%  bob's still the king...
Go Cats..
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 23, 2005, 07:55:58 AM
Desert,

Geography plays a huge role

But with Lebron scoring 36 last night in leading the Cavs to their 9 straight win and a virtual tie for first place in the central and the second best record in the league, he is the King in this area atleast!!!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: narch on November 23, 2005, 12:16:19 PM
monarch = king, regardless of geography

and i couldn't care less about the nba
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 23, 2005, 12:21:03 PM
NBA?

Oh, I remember,  100 points on both sides of the scoreboard, 2 minutes on the clock.  Jump ball!

Nother Boring Attempt to duplicate the excitement that IS DIII Football
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 23, 2005, 02:33:52 PM
Ralph and Bwana,

You know what they say about people who come from texas dont ya!!!!

HAHA I love that movie!!!!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 23, 2005, 04:35:35 PM
Cartel, I hope you get to come to Texas for your D3 playoff experience!  ;D

Two types of people in the world. Texans and those who wish they were Texans! 8)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 23, 2005, 04:38:33 PM
Ralph, there's AT LEAST one other kind....
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 23, 2005, 05:30:57 PM
Ralph,

HAHA I have been down to Texas Lubbock if that counts....Texas Tech is as beautiful as it gets, but its not exactly texas because its not as hot (weather wise) due to its high altitude.  Other than that Texas has tremendous food, people, and lets not forget home of some of these most beautiful women in America!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 23, 2005, 06:39:40 PM
Cleveland Cartel, I knew y0ou were a man of intelligence...

Line dancing in Lubbock with a bevy of beauties! ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bwana on November 23, 2005, 06:54:37 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 22, 2005, 10:32:20 PM
Bwana, you must have Texan in your blood!  :)

One of these days when you driving from Ft Worth to Amarillo, take State Hwy 86 west from Estelline (watch out for the Texas Highway Patrolman) for about 30 miles to Bob Wills' hometown of Turkey, TX.   It is a quiet little town and the Monument on the west side of town to Bob Wills is a beautiful fiddle atop a tall column.

Warren Thompson would understand! ;)

Ralph-

While I have neither the bloodlines nor the native attitude to be a texan, I thank you for the complement!

While not a texan, I had the benefit of parents who had eclectic tastes in music.  It was not unusual in any 24 hour period in our home to hear Benny Goodman, Frank Sinatra, The Beatles, Johnny Cash, Patsy Cline, Rachmaninoff, Tchaikovsky, Jelly Roll Morton, and, of course, Bob Wills.

Mom and Dad never quite got The Dead, so there were some limits!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bwana on November 23, 2005, 06:56:05 PM
Quote from: desertcat1 on November 23, 2005, 01:47:44 AM
Quote from: Bwana on November 22, 2005, 08:17:31 PM
Quote from: spliskin on November 22, 2005, 09:10:23 AM
Hmmm, I thought Elvis was the King!

truth be told, it is a geographical thing...for instance, there are parts of Texas where "Bob Wills is Still the King"

That observations goes out with an assist to the late, great Waylon Jennings.


I agree 100%  bob's still the king...
Go Cats..

As old Waylong sang (in part)...

You can hear the Grand Ol' Opry in Nashville Tennessee
It's the home of country music,on that we all agree
But when you cross that ol' Red River hoss that just don't mean a thing
Cause' once you're down in Texas, Bob Wills is still the king!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PittTBCW on November 23, 2005, 11:18:12 PM
What part of Texas is Trinity in...if its Trinity Texas where is that at?

What part of Delaware is Wesley from???

A general proximity would be a good start....just curious people keep asking what part of these states these teams are from and I was curious so I knew I could ask the right people...the PAC board!

I actually know where Bridgewater is in Virginia because of Dawson (W&J's QB from years past)/

Thanks in advance

Happy Turkey Day!!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2005, 11:26:03 PM
We have the cities of origin for every Division III school on our site. Links are next to the word "Teams" on our front page.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 23, 2005, 11:27:03 PM
Wesley is in Dover Del. Home of Dover Downs, Dover Air Force Base, Del. State U. and the States Capital. cetrally located for your convenience!!!  ?HAppy Thanksgivng to one and all!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Toby Taff on November 23, 2005, 11:47:02 PM
Quote from: PittTBCW on November 23, 2005, 11:18:12 PM
What part of Texas is Trinity in...if its Trinity Texas where is that at?

What part of Delaware is Wesley from???

A general proximity would be a good start....just curious people keep asking what part of these states these teams are from and I was curious so I knew I could ask the right people...the PAC board!

I actually know where Bridgewater is in Virginia because of Dawson (W&J's QB from years past)/

Thanks in advance

Happy Turkey Day!!!

Trinity is in San Antonio, but there is a Trinity, TX.  Trinity Texas is in East Texas 30-45 minutes north of Huntsville.  Fairly small town, has a great little western store with cheap jeans.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Olinemom on November 24, 2005, 12:31:10 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 23, 2005, 12:21:03 PM
NBA?

Oh, I remember,  100 points on both sides of the scoreboard, 2 minutes on the clock.  Jump ball!

Nother Boring Attempt to duplicate the excitement that IS DIII Football
SO TRUE
[/size][/b][/u][/color]
Makes me wish I could give Karma points already ;D, because you sure deserve it on this post!!  Not that all your posts aren't scintillating.  They are quite interesting.  Hope you are coming to Greenville in the midst of the snow storm in the frozen tundra region of PA and can stop by Stone Station!!

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Olinemom on November 24, 2005, 12:42:17 AM
Quote from: Bwana on November 23, 2005, 06:54:37 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 22, 2005, 10:32:20 PM
Bwana, , Patsy Cline

is from Virginia.  Winchester, by way of Elkton as her mother was a Hensley.  Why that's a suburb of Bridgewater don't you know?  Country music is an attitude but let's just keep Miss Patsy where she belongs, shall we?  Texas has other charms, which, hopefully we will get to see.  But only if we take care of business this Saturday in the frozen tundra of PA.  ;D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bwana on November 24, 2005, 07:22:05 AM
Quote from: Olinemom on November 24, 2005, 12:42:17 AM
Quote from: Bwana on November 23, 2005, 06:54:37 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 22, 2005, 10:32:20 PM
Bwana, , Patsy Cline

is from Virginia.  Winchester, by way of Elkton as her mother was a Hensley.  Why that's a suburb of Bridgewater don't you know?  Country music is an attitude but let's just keep Miss Patsy where she belongs, shall we?  Texas has other charms, which, hopefully we will get to see.  But only if we take care of business this Saturday in the frozen tundra of PA.  ;D

Yes, ma'am, I am aware of where she hailed from.  I have even been to the Patsy Cline museum and placed flowers at her tombstone.

My point in my complete post was regarding a previous reference to Bob Wills.  It was suggested that because I knew about Bob Wills, I had Texas blood.  I went on to mention the wide musical exposure I had as a child, which included classical, rock, jazz, and country.  Patsy was mentioned as an example of the various artists my parents listened to (along with Goodman, sinatra, Cash, The Beatles, etc.).  No one is ceding Patsy to any other state or commonwealth.
Title: HAPPY THANKSGIVING!
Post by: Bwana on November 24, 2005, 07:23:09 AM
Happy Thanksgiving!

Travel safely and enjoy your food comas!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: abnrgr on November 24, 2005, 01:40:02 PM
Happy Thanksgivings

In our day think about the ones who are somewhere else making it possible for us to be where we are. The Infantryman standing out front, the Coast Guardsman boarding a ship in 20 ft seas, the sailor standind his watch, the Marine and the pilot.

RLTW!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 24, 2005, 01:50:27 PM
I am out of Cleveland and I will be going to the Thiel  BW game this weekend and East cleveland and far east have alreayd been hit with over a foot of snow, but some of t hat is expected to melt by saturday as temps rise to 35 and higher....Should be a little snow and still a little trecherous coming out....
Looking forward to Saturday!!!

THE CARTEL!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: critic on November 24, 2005, 05:23:58 PM
Drive carefully BC.  By the way rumor has it that PA isn't exactly the best at clearing the roads, :o  lots of black ice expected in the morning :-\ but in the afternoon the roads should be fine. ;D  Looking forward to hearing about the BC & Thiel game.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: desertcat1 on November 24, 2005, 10:29:24 PM
Quote from: Bwana on November 23, 2005, 06:56:05 PM
Quote from: desertcat1 on November 23, 2005, 01:47:44 AM
Quote from: Bwana on November 22, 2005, 08:17:31 PM
Quote from: spliskin on November 22, 2005, 09:10:23 AM
Hmmm, I thought Elvis was the King!

truth be told, it is a geographical thing...for instance, there are parts of Texas where "Bob Wills is Still the King"

That observations goes out with an assist to the late, great Waylon Jennings.


I agree 100%  bob's still the king...
Go Cats..

As old Waylong sang (in part)...

You can hear the Grand Ol' Opry in Nashville Tennessee
It's the home of country music,on that we all agree
But when you cross that ol' Red River hoss that just don't mean a thing
Cause' once you're down in Texas, Bob Wills is still the king!



Bwana:

Don't forget   "Willie Nelson will be the first to tell you bob willis is still the king" 8)

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 25, 2005, 07:25:03 AM
Desert,

Taking us back with some Bob Willis and I like it!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bwana on November 25, 2005, 09:09:36 AM
Quote from: desertcat1 on November 24, 2005, 10:29:24 PM
Quote from: Bwana on November 23, 2005, 06:56:05 PM
Quote from: desertcat1 on November 23, 2005, 01:47:44 AM
Quote from: Bwana on November 22, 2005, 08:17:31 PM
Quote from: spliskin on November 22, 2005, 09:10:23 AM
Hmmm, I thought Elvis was the King!

truth be told, it is a geographical thing...for instance, there are parts of Texas where "Bob Wills is Still the King"

That observations goes out with an assist to the late, great Waylon Jennings.


I agree 100%  bob's still the king...
Go Cats..

As old Waylong sang (in part)...

You can hear the Grand Ol' Opry in Nashville Tennessee
It's the home of country music,on that we all agree
But when you cross that ol' Red River hoss that just don't mean a thing
Cause' once you're down in Texas, Bob Wills is still the king!



Bwana:

Don't forget   "Willie Nelson will be the first to tell you bob willis is still the king" 8)



Well, since Willy is still around I thought I would let him speak for himself...I mean, once the hazy smoke that sometimes surrounds him clears!  ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: critic on November 26, 2005, 12:20:46 AM
Just read something interesting while surfing the web.  Field turf will freeze up to three inches if enough freezing and melting, and freezing and melting go on.  Just wondering if anybody knows if Thiels field is like that.  If so what would be the best type of shoes to wear. Turf because its had or cleats, i would think that cleats may be counter productive on an almost sheet of ice, that is if that is the case...... Can't wait to hear about the games on saturday.
Good Luck to all the teams this saturday. :)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: ThielFan on November 26, 2005, 08:19:50 AM
Safe travels to all driving to Greenville this week.  Win or lose, I'd love to see a great game today.  I'm incredibly proud of the 'Cats and everything they've accomplished this season.  That being said...

May the best team win, and let's make it one more football weekend for Thiel!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 26, 2005, 12:42:58 PM
Let the games begin!!!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Jeremybozz on November 26, 2005, 12:54:23 PM
BC 7, Thiel 7 2nd quarter.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Jeremybozz on November 26, 2005, 01:18:32 PM
BC 7, Thiel 7 HALF
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 26, 2005, 01:24:35 PM
Wesley 17 UMHB 7 with 8 mins to go in the first two big wesley hits for fumbles
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 26, 2005, 02:50:25 PM
Wesley is playing very well on both sides of the ball.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bwana on November 26, 2005, 03:06:27 PM
BC 24, Thiel 13
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Jeremybozz on November 26, 2005, 04:21:58 PM
Wesley 46, UMHB 36 FINAL
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: historymajor on November 26, 2005, 05:25:18 PM
Wow!!!  Congrats to Wesley!  I thought UMHB was fantastic in last week's dominating showing at TU...  Now I'm glad TU didn't have to face Wesley!  Watch out BW... if Wesley can play like they did today... Katie bar the door!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 26, 2005, 09:04:39 PM
Congratulations to Wesley.  They came to Belton and played an outstanding game.  Their QB was outstanding and their o line kept the UMHB defense off of him the whole game.  The Wesley defensive front was big and strong.  Turnovers killed UMHB and Wesley took advantage of them.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Toby Taff on November 26, 2005, 09:13:41 PM
Let me offer congrats to wesley, as well. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: narch on November 26, 2005, 10:56:16 PM
2-2 in week 2 predictions...working on south region final prediction as we speak...leaning toward b'water because of playoff experience, but those boys from wesley seem to have the glass slipper on....hmm - should be interesting

congrats to both teams, and all who made it this far
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: abnrgr on November 27, 2005, 12:04:34 AM
I will eat my words on that helping. Wolverines are wild!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on November 27, 2005, 10:45:34 AM
Quote from: critic on November 26, 2005, 12:20:46 AM
Just read something interesting while surfing the web.  Field turf will freeze up to three inches if enough freezing and melting, and freezing and melting go on.  Just wondering if anybody knows if Thiels field is like that.  If so what would be the best type of shoes to wear. Turf because its had or cleats, i would think that cleats may be counter productive on an almost sheet of ice, that is if that is the case...... Can't wait to hear about the games on saturday.
Good Luck to all the teams this saturday. :)

Well the choice of the day was long cleats. Footing was not nearly as bad as it looked like it would be, other than the speed bumps. They used snow blowers to clear the yardlines clean and blew it between the yardlines.  ;D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 27, 2005, 11:20:46 AM
Good luck to Bridewater as I hope to see them continue their drive to the post season and also a big congrats is out to Wesley for pulling off what many including myself was unthinkable, and I love it!

Thats why we play the games because when everyone counts you out there is still 52 players on the other sideline that know in their heart s that they can beat the man across the ball from them.....

Goodluck next week teams
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PittTBCW on November 27, 2005, 11:38:52 AM
Congrats to Wesley and B'Water on thier wins this week. Good luck to both teams this week. Hopefully the winner will represent the south region deep into the playoffs!

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: MommaCru on November 27, 2005, 02:14:39 PM
First let me offer my congrats to the Wesley Team, enjoy this Cinderella post season....Safe travel home :)

CRU Family, Friends & Belton, TX.....Thanks for 4 years of excitement, hospitality and nurturing.  Nicholas #9..... you know how proud I am of YOU ! ! ! ! !   You have surpassed my dreams and thanks for allowing me take this journey with you.   A master of the game and you show it in every breath you take between the white chalk lines. 

To the UMHB coaching family.....Awesome mentors, fine gentleman and caring human beings. Ms Goff...your halo shines brighter every year.

HAVE A SAFE AND BLESSED HOLIDAY SEASON
Title: South region Champ
Post by: religion_major on November 27, 2005, 06:03:13 PM
What do ya'll think? 

I'll put one vote down for Bridgewater. :)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: desertcat1 on November 27, 2005, 07:21:14 PM
Quote from: Bwana on November 25, 2005, 09:09:36 AM
Quote from: desertcat1 on November 24, 2005, 10:29:24 PM
Quote from: Bwana on November 23, 2005, 06:56:05 PM
Quote from: desertcat1 on November 23, 2005, 01:47:44 AM
Quote from: Bwana on November 22, 2005, 08:17:31 PM
Quote from: spliskin on November 22, 2005, 09:10:23 AM
Hmmm, I thought Elvis was the King!

truth be told, it is a geographical thing...for instance, there are parts of Texas where "Bob Wills is Still the King"

That observations goes out with an assist to the late, great Waylon Jennings.


I agree 100%  bob's still the king...
Go Cats..

As old Waylong sang (in part)...

You can hear the Grand Ol' Opry in Nashville Tennessee
It's the home of country music,on that we all agree
But when you cross that ol' Red River hoss that just don't mean a thing
Cause' once you're down in Texas, Bob Wills is still the king!



Bwana:

Don't forget   "Willie Nelson will be the first to tell you bob willis is still the king" 8)



Well, since Willy is still around I thought I would let him speak for himself...I mean, once the hazy smoke that sometimes surrounds him clears!  ;)



bwana, 

even after a little smoke Wilie stills knows who 's the king,

"it's in the song"  Have you ever heard it?

;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bwana on November 27, 2005, 07:24:24 PM
Quote from: desertcat1 on November 27, 2005, 07:21:14 PM
Quote from: Bwana on November 25, 2005, 09:09:36 AM
Quote from: desertcat1 on November 24, 2005, 10:29:24 PM
Quote from: Bwana on November 23, 2005, 06:56:05 PM
Quote from: desertcat1 on November 23, 2005, 01:47:44 AM
Quote from: Bwana on November 22, 2005, 08:17:31 PM
Quote from: spliskin on November 22, 2005, 09:10:23 AM
Hmmm, I thought Elvis was the King!

truth be told, it is a geographical thing...for instance, there are parts of Texas where "Bob Wills is Still the King"

That observations goes out with an assist to the late, great Waylon Jennings.


I agree 100%  bob's still the king...
Go Cats..

As old Waylong sang (in part)...

You can hear the Grand Ol' Opry in Nashville Tennessee
It's the home of country music,on that we all agree
But when you cross that ol' Red River hoss that just don't mean a thing
Cause' once you're down in Texas, Bob Wills is still the king!



Bwana:

Don't forget   "Willie Nelson will be the first to tell you bob willis is still the king" 8)



Well, since Willy is still around I thought I would let him speak for himself...I mean, once the hazy smoke that sometimes surrounds him clears!  ;)



bwana, 

even after a little smoke Wilie stills knows who 's the king,

"it's in the song"  Have you ever heard it?

;) ;) ;)

I imagine I have heard the song...but we have to let the smoke clear not for Willie to speak, but to make sure the listeners heads are clear enough to understand what he is saying!  ;)
Title: Re: South region Champ
Post by: Toby Taff on November 27, 2005, 07:24:45 PM
I'll reply Wesley.  It could be fun to see a Linfield-Wesley matchup.  Talk about Racking up frequent flyer miles.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: desertcat1 on November 27, 2005, 07:30:46 PM
Quote from: Bwana on November 27, 2005, 07:24:24 PM
Quote from: desertcat1 on November 27, 2005, 07:21:14 PM
Quote from: Bwana on November 25, 2005, 09:09:36 AM
Quote from: desertcat1 on November 24, 2005, 10:29:24 PM
Quote from: Bwana on November 23, 2005, 06:56:05 PM
Quote from: desertcat1 on November 23, 2005, 01:47:44 AM
Quote from: Bwana on November 22, 2005, 08:17:31 PM
Quote from: spliskin on November 22, 2005, 09:10:23 AM
Hmmm, I thought Elvis was the King!

truth be told, it is a geographical thing...for instance, there are parts of Texas where "Bob Wills is Still the King"

That observations goes out with an assist to the late, great Waylon Jennings.


I agree 100%  bob's still the king...
Go Cats..

As old Waylong sang (in part)...

You can hear the Grand Ol' Opry in Nashville Tennessee
It's the home of country music,on that we all agree
But when you cross that ol' Red River hoss that just don't mean a thing
Cause' once you're down in Texas, Bob Wills is still the king!



Bwana:

Don't forget   "Willie Nelson will be the first to tell you bob willis is still the king" 8)



Well, since Willy is still around I thought I would let him speak for himself...I mean, once the hazy smoke that sometimes surrounds him clears!  ;)



bwana, 

even after a little smoke Wilie stills knows who 's the king,

"it's in the song"  Have you ever heard it?

;) ;) ;)

I imagine I have heard the song...but we have to let the smoke clear not for Willie to speak, but to make sure the listeners heads are clear enough to understand what he is saying!  ;)


we use that smoke for medical reasons out here in Or. too ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bwana on November 27, 2005, 08:28:53 PM
Medicinal or not, after hearing Toby Keith sing about it I think we need to be careful smoking weed with Willie under any circumstances!  :D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 27, 2005, 09:03:32 PM
Wesley once rode a bus to Madison Wisc.  Played at 1AA Butler and scheduled a game in Fla.just to get teams Just to get a ninth game. They know to well about travel  Except once time Coach Drass didn't have enough movies for the busses!!!  [quote aauthor=mhb8904 link=topic=4102.msg432309#msg432309 date=1133137485]
I'll reply Wesley. It could be fun to see a Linfield-Wesley matchup. Talk about Racking up frequent flyer miles.
Quote
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 28, 2005, 01:28:59 PM
I guess, all in all, the state of affairs in the Northern Tier of the South Region isn't as sad as had been rumored.

lol
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: pakownr97 on November 28, 2005, 05:40:10 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 28, 2005, 01:28:59 PM
I guess, all in all, the state of affairs in the Northern Tier of the South Region isn't as sad as had been rumored.

lol

You said it, Bob!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 28, 2005, 06:01:18 PM
Wesley was very good.  I was impressed by the size of their lines.  They were strong and negated the UMHB pass rush completely.  The QB was awesome.  However, UMHB still managed to score 36 points and that would be a concern for me.  Turnovers were the difference in the game and they were caused by Wesley.  Good luck this week.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 28, 2005, 06:41:37 PM
Turnovers ended up 4-4, I think.  Wesley was able to convert but UMHB could not.  MHB had enough red zone chances in the second half to win the game (or at least make the Wolverines worry about it) but the Wesley defense came up big time after time.

The final score wasn't really as close as it seemed, after all UMHB scored their last TD with under a second left. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: narch on November 30, 2005, 08:57:51 AM
i think i'm ready for my prediction...and this is going to make some b'water fans happy (or not, considering i'm only 4-2 picking south region games at this point :))

b'water 35 - wesley 31 - there is no reason for me to pick b'water other than gut and past experience...wesley looks to stack up very well statistically against the eagles, but i think the slipper will fall off this weekend - good luck to both teams, and i hope the winner reps the south region well in the semifinals!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: njlincolnlion on November 30, 2005, 03:46:16 PM
My Pick for the Bridgewater/Wesley game is:

Wesley 35    Bridgewater 28

Just a gut feeling and gotta go with the ACFC!!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: desertcat1 on November 30, 2005, 08:50:15 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger (BfB) on November 28, 2005, 06:41:37 PM
Turnovers ended up 4-4, I think.  Wesley was able to convert but UMHB could not.  MHB had enough red zone chances in the second half to win the game (or at least make the Wolverines worry about it) but the Wesley defense came up big time after time.

The final score wasn't really as close as it seemed, after all UMHB scored their last TD with under a second left. 


that sounds normal their good at running up the score ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PittTBCW on December 01, 2005, 10:27:59 AM
Prediction Time:

Still have not seen Wesley play...Saw B'Water last week @ Thiel so this prediction may not be as strong as if I saw both teams play. But based on the information I have I will do the best that I can!!!

Here we go

B'Water @ Wesley

I have to go with the Eagles. I think the strength of thier running game and well balanced defense and strong special teams will get the job down this week and represent the south region in the semis. The BC faithful will be out in ful force again this week and take away some of the homefield advantage by packing the seats and rooting on the pep band. The running game should be the deciding factor and the ability of the BC secondary to shut down Wesley's pass first offense will be the keys to success for the Eagles. BC's coaching staff is one of D3's best and will come up with a scheme this week that will be tough to beat aslong as the players can successful with the plan.

B'Water 31 Wesley 21

Good luck to both teams & safe travels!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on December 01, 2005, 11:01:05 AM
Just can't find it in myself to pick Wesley.

I'm not sure what it is, but in the National Quarterfinals, I just can not pick a team that got smoked (47-0) by a .500 ballclub.

I could be dead wrong, but I'll have to live with that if I am....
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: wrighthall220 on December 01, 2005, 02:07:51 PM
Bob,
You must have forgotten there was mud on the field and um players from Brockport and uummmm..  :)  You're right, I agree with you there has to be a weakness that the excellent BC coaches will exploit on Saturday...there are not enough excuses in the world for a 47-0 loss.  Even if Wesley fans don't want to admit it, 47-0 leads me to believe there is something that is a HUGE weakness that can be exploited.  Granted BC has a loss under their belt but I'll go with BC by a touchdown or less. 

BC 42-Wesley 35

GO BC!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BigMikeA78 on December 01, 2005, 02:36:25 PM
As a proud BC supporter and alum, I know I am biased in this pick, but Bridgewater has been there and done this before, they know how to win on the road...they are used to wintry weather conditions, whether it be wind, rain, snow, sleet, or mud...and in the end, BC is balanced in all three aspects of the game...while Wesley is going to be a very formidable opponent, I see this game coming down to the last few minutes with BC scoring late to win it.

BC 27, Wesley 20
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: cptculo17 on December 01, 2005, 02:41:14 PM
The only thing that BC is going to exploit this weekend is probably figure out a way of how to run more plays when theres no time left on the clock...(Rowan)...because thats the only chance your going to have to win...

Running game...what running game...weve shut down some of the "supposedly" talented running games so far "Ferrum #1 in the nation, o yea and that team from Texas who went to the championship last yr...I guess thats not good enough... Im tired of the fact that Wesley gets no credit or writeups on D3.com...because this is a cindarella in the making and I guess a blowout again!!! will prove my point...everyones basing their pick from a 47-0 loss to Brockport in the regular season...it only matters what you do during the playoffs...thats right Brockport is still at home right now drinking their hot cocoa...wesley is the hottest team right now...look at the numbers...how can you pick against them...that secondary has no clue of the task ahead of them...stay tuned, and youll no why

So make us the underdog again...the wolverines and their die hard fans thrive off that kind of stuff...and no massive carnival of fan support along with their pep band is going to intimidate us...you better bring more than that
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 01, 2005, 03:05:31 PM
Quote from: cptculo17 on December 01, 2005, 02:41:14 PM
Im tired of the fact that Wesley gets no credit or writeups on D3.com...because this is a cindarella in the making and I guess a blowout again!!!

Yeah.

Wonder where you got the term cinderella -- because it sounds exactly like what we said on the selection show on ESPNews. Guess that isn't enough credit for you, though.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: wrighthall220 on December 01, 2005, 03:19:48 PM
cptculo17
Angry words from a Place Kicker.. reminds me of the Colts kicker!  ;D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: cptculo17 on December 01, 2005, 03:26:34 PM
Yea because a cindarella team hosts a regional game and is higher seeded than its opponent...
That school deserves more write up than what they get

And since when does a persons email clarify who that person is...nice try buddy...besides the point vanderjact ripped on his own team first of all (peyton manning preferably)...unlike how I praised mine..so way to make a point
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: mizzou_mafia on December 01, 2005, 03:38:41 PM
Quote from: cptculo17 on December 01, 2005, 02:41:14 PM

So make us the underdog again...the wolverines and their die hard fans thrive off that kind of stuff...

Last time I checked the poll at the top of this board, Wesley is the favorite by those that tred these grounds.  A few more Bridgewater fans have posted their predictions instead of just voting, but the numbers speak for themselves.  I suspect a lot of Texas votes.

Why with the Rowan comment?  I know you're just a newbie poster that likely won't be around after Wesley picks up its next loss, so just enjoy your ride!  No need to rip on BC.  

If you're looking for props on Wesley, visit the ASC board.  Or visit the ODAC or ACFC board after Saturday if Wesley wins.  From here on out, Wesley's play on the field controls the respect and press they get.  

Oh, and Wesley has gotten some coverage on this site this year.  Here's a nice article that took me less than a minute to find...so there's probably others.

http://www.d3football.com/atr.php?id=2199
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on December 01, 2005, 03:53:55 PM
It's a win-win situation for cptculo17 (posting-wise).

Newbie poster, week before a big game, comes on here saying how his team rocks (blah blah blah).  If Wesley wins, then he remains on here giving us the "I told you so" crap.  If Wesley loses, then he never posts again and simply goes back to being just a reader.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: wrighthall220 on December 01, 2005, 03:56:39 PM
cptculo17,
Let's see if I can help ease the anger.. or is it fear?  

"Yea because a cindarella team hosts a regional game and is higher seeded than its opponent...
That school deserves more write up than what they get"

From what I know Wesley has the following  going against them:

-They haven't made much noise in the playoffs in recent history.  Rowan, Linfield, Capital and Mount Union have, hence the coverage.  


The reason Wesley is hosting the game this weekend is a direct result of BC losing to McDaniel in Week1.  Wesley just happened not to lose to a "south region" team.  It's not that big of a deal that Wesley is hosting the game, I'm sorry but it's honestly not.  I know it's new and a big deal for Wesley and their fans but in the big scheme of things, where a game is being held is NOT a reason for the press to flock to Wesley.  (nor does it help Wesley earn respect)  I have  yet to read a report that was based on how important it is that Mount Union is hosting Capital... I've read reports about how the various players are going to change the outcome of the game but not homefield importance.  


Something else to note, you complained about the Brockport loss.. which seems like a touchy subject.. it's all anyone knows about Wesley.... so if it hurts your feelings I'm sorry..  :'(      However,  if you're going to defend yourself against the Brockport loss.. please point out which of the remaining 8 teams were shut out in a 40+ point loss.   47-0 is an eye sore.  



I know what the Colts kicker said.. I just think it's funny when kickers get angry because you all are usually very well spoken... but honestly you're not that scary!
;D

Forgive me if wesleypk48@yahoo.com doesn't lead me to believe you're a kicker..  :P


Oh and good jab with the Rowan statement.. very timely and very, very original..  :D   You don't have to worry about the time.. you all are in charge of that!  :P ::)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: wrighthall220 on December 01, 2005, 04:04:18 PM
cptculo17,

Just a quick tip... don't mess with BC's posters.. we're fairly used to "this is our year", "keep counting on us as underdogs", blah, blah, blah... we're fairly well educated DIII football fans, we're going to support our team win or lose.. now you may want to ask yourself.. will you do the same?  Will you be here in Feb, April?  We will!  ;D  Just be careful about  poking us too hard!  :D ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bwana on December 01, 2005, 04:05:23 PM
Quote from: cptculo17 on December 01, 2005, 02:41:14 PM
The only thing that BC is going to exploit this weekend is probably figure out a way of how to run more plays when theres no time left on the clock...(Rowan)...because thats the only chance your going to have to win...

Running game...what running game...weve shut down some of the "supposedly" talented running games so far "Ferrum #1 in the nation, o yea and that team from Texas who went to the championship last yr...I guess thats not good enough... Im tired of the fact that Wesley gets no credit or writeups on D3.com...because this is a cindarella in the making and I guess a blowout again!!! will prove my point...everyones basing their pick from a 47-0 loss to Brockport in the regular season...it only matters what you do during the playoffs...thats right Brockport is still at home right now drinking their hot cocoa...wesley is the hottest team right now...look at the numbers...how can you pick against them...that secondary has no clue of the task ahead of them...stay tuned, and youll no why

So make us the underdog again...the wolverines and their die hard fans thrive off that kind of stuff...and no massive carnival of fan support along with their pep band is going to intimidate us...you better bring more than that

Whoah, hoss...that chip on your shoulder is affecting your spelling.

Before your blast of bile and bitterness drowns your keyboard, you should note that the south region poll on D3.com (See above) show participants favoring Wesley over BC by a 3-2 margin.  Both the OAC and ODAC pick-em's have Wesley favored...and since the ODAC pick is based on the Borne ratings, we have statistical indices that Wesley should be favored....oh, and Wesley is the higher seed, too, hence the home game in Dover.

Wesley is getting plenty of respect.  If you want to get more folks on this board picking Wesley, then you need to get them logged on.  Beyond BC fans or backers of teams that have played BC, I don't see a tsunami of people coming in here and picking against Wesley...and BC backers can not be expected to pick against or talk down their own team.  ;)

Wesley has had a great year to date, and the only folks who are still calling them a cinderella team are those searching for artificial reasons to get fired up for the game.

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on December 01, 2005, 04:17:08 PM
Quote from: Bwana on December 01, 2005, 04:05:23 PM
[...]
Wesley has had a great year to date, and the only folks who are still calling them a cinderella team are those searching for artificial reasons to get fired up for the game.

Well said ... I "applauded" you.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: mizzou_mafia on December 01, 2005, 04:18:20 PM
It appears that members of the ODAC board were just waiting for someone to shake things up  :)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: WCswann28sis on December 01, 2005, 04:20:43 PM
QuoteI don't think that he (captculo17) is mad at the fact that Wesley "doesn't get their props on the site" I mean they do but barely.  Its the fact that all of yall have been sleepin on these boys all year and holding them up as just "good enough". Now everybody is wakin up and seening them for the team they really are, a kick ass team  ;). And wats up with that bs article you (mizzou_mofia) found, surely they get mentioned in some write ups, a couple of sentences, but thats it, they don't get articles get it right.  At the playoff level stats don't mean crap, its whomever is in the favor of the playoff gods on that saturday afternoon, its about who's got the heart and the want for that win.  I read they way that yall hipe your teams up and tear other teams and each other down and I think yall know nothing but a bunch of numbers, u don't know these boys and you don't know these teams.  I've been around this game longer then I've known how to walk and its about who's got it at that moment and time, not who had or didn't have it last week or last year, so get off the lost to Brockport. They'll be at home this weekend while the wolverines will be playin strong in the playoffs.  Saturdays game is gonna be great and if you're not there I feel sorry for you. Good luck to both Bridgewater and Wesley, but I'm rootin for my brother. This is just my opinion, not and argument.

"LOOK #28 GOT'S UR BALL, GO WESLEY"
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: wrighthall220 on December 01, 2005, 04:24:42 PM
Mizzou.. I've been missing the posters like cptculo17, he/she/it reminds me of the HSC fans/players/parents from October.. which we all remember as: angry, want more respect,  think this is their year, etc.   did I mention angry?    I think there is a little fear in there as well.. but in any case it's always fun to play with angry posters!  :D ;D

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: wrighthall220 on December 01, 2005, 04:28:33 PM
WCswann28sis

What the crap was that?   If you're going to make general statements.. some of us played on recent BC teams while others are at EVERY game.. even pre-season practices.. to say "we know nothing" shows a great deal of ignorance.  ::)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: mizzou_mafia on December 01, 2005, 04:35:13 PM
Hey wright,

Maybe these 2 new posters are HSC fans who created blatantly obvious (might I say, almost too obvious) Wesley-related email accounts to get in some post-season jabs.   :D

Or maybe they're BCers who are trying to help us through the pre-game lull on the boards the several days before post-season kickoffs.

WCswamm28sis,
You know, there were several other 'articles' about Wesley victories that I ran across, but I thought that one was most likely to get a reaction :)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: mizzou_mafia on December 01, 2005, 04:40:38 PM
WCswamm28sis,

Really, no hate towards the Wesley crowd.  I don't think I've read any BCers saying anything bad about the Wolverines yet this week...and as far as this...

Quote from: WCswann28sis on December 01, 2005, 04:20:43 PM
holding (Wesley) up as just "good enough".

I don't think most of us knew enough about Wesley this year to hold them up as anything!  You're probably more right in saying that people were sleeping on Wesley.  But after beating UMHB soundly, everyone's wide awake.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: religion_major on December 01, 2005, 04:46:50 PM
Quote from: mizzou_mofia on December 01, 2005, 04:40:38 PM
WCswamm28sis,

Really, no hate towards the Wesley crowd.  I don't think I've read any BCers saying anything bad about the Wolverines yet this week...and as far as this...

Quote from: WCswann28sis on December 01, 2005, 04:20:43 PM
holding (Wesley) up as just "good enough".

I don't think most of us knew enough about Wesley this year to hold them up as anything!  You're probably more right in saying that people were sleeping on Wesley.  But after beating UMHB soundly, everyone's wide awake.

A team has to be "good enough" before it can be great.  In the playoffs if a team can be "good enough" for 5 weeks that makes them national champions.  There are no bad teams left in the playoffs.  Wesley has made it to the elite eight and earned all the respect that they have received.  Bridgewater had to earn respect when it started to rise, now Wesley is doing the same thing. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: WCswann28sis on December 01, 2005, 05:09:46 PM
I didn't say anything bad about Bc, in fact I'm sure their a great team, they'd have to be to get this far. I haven't seen BC play this year so I can't say anything bad about them and I won't cuz thats jus not my style, I have nothing to gain here. I don't really see any wesley fans except for captcul17 downing BC, but I do see plenty of BC fans taking snaps at Wesley. But anyways, the comment I made about posters not really knowing anything but stats did not include current players, maybe I should've put a disclaimer on that but that was obvious duh, so sweetheart settled down ok. Its just an opinion, geez get ur jock strap outta ur butt and maybe ur'll feel better.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: religion_major on December 01, 2005, 05:29:16 PM
WCswann28sis,

We, the BC fans, are trying to get some discussion of the game going on.  There have been very few pot shots that I can see taken at Wesley that have not been a direct result of on the field preformance.  You don't like BC fans taking shots at Wesley's 47-0 loss to Brockport, then find something BC has done this year to shoot back at (start with the second half of the McDaniel game).  It's called a football discussion board because we attempt to discuss what we think about football on here.  Most BC fans think that BC will go up to Wesley and win this weekend.  We have various reasons that we have given to back that opinion up.  Why might I ask, other than the fact that your brother is playing, do you believe that Wesley will win? 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on December 01, 2005, 05:50:57 PM
Boy oh Boy who told all the Wesley people about this page???
I would like to add my two cents.( seeing that's all I ever come home wioth from Dover Downs)  Too bad you newbies haven't taken the time to stroll around the site! Wesley is getting it's props as well as it ever has. Some people are going to go off from BC too but that's their opinion.

  I was all set to defend Wesley's mere 200 and what ever yrds passing/ game with this little tidbit. in almost every game this year Wesley ran the ball most of the second half. They make a lot of a BIG plays so don't be deceived by some of there Defensive stats either. The Offense scores so quickly that the D. is on the field alot. Not withstanding that mirage of a game in the twilight zone B'port
   
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on December 01, 2005, 07:13:58 PM
Quote from: WCswann28sis on December 01, 2005, 05:09:46 PM
But anyways, the comment I made about posters not really knowing anything but stats did not include current players, maybe I should've put a disclaimer on that but that was obvious duh, so sweetheart settled down ok. Its just an opinion, geez get ur jock strap outta ur butt and maybe ur'll feel better.

Did she just use sweetheart and jock strap in the same post? WOW!  :o
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on December 01, 2005, 07:21:08 PM
 I believe she did!!!!  And in contect too!!! So how can you argue with that. Now I will be spending all day looking to see who it was that wrote that comment!!! I have going to Wesley games for 10 yrs now and I don't think have ever heard that saying..  Close tho If she only knew that you can't get your jock up ther like a thong unless helped !!!!quote author=Llamaguy link=topic=4102.msg435856#msg435856 date=1133482438]
Quote from: WCswann28sis on December 01, 2005, 05:09:46 PM
But anyways, the comment I made about posters not really knowing anything but stats did not include current players, maybe I should've put a disclaimer on that but that was obvious duh, so sweetheart settled down ok. Its just an opinion, geez get ur jock strap outta ur butt and maybe ur'll feel better.

Did she just use sweetheart and jock strap in the same post? WOW!  :o
Quote
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bwana on December 01, 2005, 09:13:07 PM
Quote from: eh ... just call me 'kid' on December 01, 2005, 04:17:08 PM
Quote from: Bwana on December 01, 2005, 04:05:23 PM
[...]
Wesley has had a great year to date, and the only folks who are still calling them a cinderella team are those searching for artificial reasons to get fired up for the game.

Well said ... I "applauded" you.
Gracias, mi amigo!

I hope you have a safe trip to Wesley, and we shall see you on saturday!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: WCswann28sis on December 01, 2005, 09:14:17 PM
In my opinion I think Wesley will win because I believe that they are the better team fundementally and physically, plus their at home and they haven't lost at home in the past 2 years.  Our crowd gets way to hipe to let our boys down and in turn they hipe us up with their big plays (ex: 1st round of the playoff, scoring within the first wat 10 secs of the game on a kick off that was fumbled and recovered by WC and ran in for the TD, props to special teams.) Their defense is just vicious, there is mucho power on that line. I love going to watch them play, they never disappoint. I'm not saying anything different about wesley that a BC fan wouldn't say about BC.

Yes I understand that this is a board of discussion but there is a difference between discussing and talking down about any team.  I find these boards very intriging and yes I've read other boards I do see the praise that people have giving the Wolverines, never said that they didn't.

And yes I did use sweetheart and jock strap in the same post, lol

p.s- Guys remember this is just all in fun, don't take this stuff personally.

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: bcsportswriter on December 01, 2005, 09:41:17 PM
Quote from: WCswann28sis on December 01, 2005, 09:14:17 PM
In my opinion I think Wesley will win because I believe that they are the better team fundementally and physically, plus their at home and they haven't lost at home in the past 2 years.  Our crowd gets way to hipe to let our boys down and in turn they hipe us up with their big plays (ex: 1st round of the playoff, scoring within the first wat 10 secs of the game on a kick off that was fumbled and recovered by WC and ran in for the TD, props to special teams.) Their defense is just vicious, there is mucho power on that line. I love going to watch them play, they never disappoint. I'm not saying anything different about wesley that a BC fan wouldn't say about BC.

Yes I understand that this is a board of discussion but there is a difference between discussing and talking down about any team.  I find these boards very intriging and yes I've read other boards I do see the praise that people have giving the Wolverines, never said that they didn't.

And yes I did use sweetheart and jock strap in the same post, lol

p.s- Guys remember this is just all in fun, don't take this stuff personally.



You guys just got busted.  :)   BC this weekend by 2 scores.  Wesley thinks they are on a roll, wait until they see us.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on December 01, 2005, 11:15:04 PM
Quote from: WCswann28sis on December 01, 2005, 09:14:17 PM

And yes I did use sweetheart and jock strap in the same post, lol

p.s- Guys remember this is just all in fun, don't take this stuff personally.



Well then I will be in full uniform again this weekend. That is minus the jock strap, just in case! ;D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on December 01, 2005, 11:35:38 PM
LLama
  how many of you crazed posters will be at the game?  should be one great crowd.

  we usually sit to the left of the booth, second row from the top, unreserved seating. introduce youself if you can get to that side of the field!!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: skoaltrain on December 01, 2005, 11:38:39 PM
Amazing!  WCswann28sis.  I can't believe what I have just spent the past hour on this board catching up on.  Man, I've been on this board for 4+ years and have never seen spelling that bad.  Grammar was terrible and your use of abbreviations was appalling.  I sure hope Wesley is a better football team than you are a "typer."  

I will give you props though, you really stirred it up.  Same with captculo17.  No clue and it can all be chalked up to being "newbie's."  Good energy but not much validity.  Time will tell and let us all resume this thread come Saturday afternoon. But unlike the BC faithful, I'm sure you two chumps will disappear into the night if you happen to lose.  Oh well, we've ran off better posters and many at that.

I am the SkoalTrain!  Peace!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 02, 2005, 12:14:21 AM
Quote from: WCswann28sis on December 01, 2005, 09:14:17 PM


...And yes I did use sweetheart and jock strap in the same post, lol

p.s- Guys remember this is just all in fun, don't take this stuff personally.



That implies Wesley and wedgies in the same post! :D :D :D

WCswann28sis, welcome aboard!

I would love to have another South Team make the Stagg.  We will have had BC, Trinity and UMHB so far this decade, and BC, TU, UMHB and HSU have won the South Region since the Pools started.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but it would be nice to have Wesley make the Stagg Bowl.  That would show lots of balance in the South. :)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: miz on December 02, 2005, 01:32:44 AM
Quote from: cptculo17 on December 01, 2005, 02:41:14 PM


Running game...what running game...weve shut down some of the "supposedly" talented running games so far "Ferrum #1 in the nation

Hard words from a little kicker, lol.  And you can tell your teammates who actually play football that BC isn't anything close to Ferrum.  Whole 'nother ballgame buddy. 

And BTW, we're gonna' block a kick Saturday.  And you're gonna' miss another one that comes back to haunt you. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Olinemom on December 02, 2005, 08:41:27 AM
Quote from: Llamaguy on December 01, 2005, 11:15:04 PM
Quote from: WCswann28sis on December 01, 2005, 09:14:17 PM

And yes I did use sweetheart and jock strap in the same post, lol

p.s- Guys remember this is just all in fun, don't take this stuff personally.
Well then I will be in full uniform again this weekend. That is minus the jock strap, just in case! ;D

What number are you wearing this weekend?  A good one to go with the third set of combat boots, I hope!!

GO BC EAGLES
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: iLuvWCFB on December 02, 2005, 10:23:18 AM
I'll admit I'm a "newbie" but I'm not here to start trouble (haha)

But I know most of my WC FB boys check this out to see what the people are saying and I'm just taking a second to say...

Good luck!!!!!!   ;D :-*

The energy in Dover is amazing, we know you've got this!

Just trying to keep it positive around here, haha
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PittTBCW on December 02, 2005, 10:24:28 AM
How is cptculo17 practicing if he is hanging out in Indi with Vanderjagt???

You better hope you come through on some kicks now...I would hate to see a 28 to 27 Wesley loss because of a missed kick!

Be careful for what you wish for...you will be the headline of the bashing next week...or maybe the hero...probably not BC rolls in this one on the road!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 02, 2005, 12:18:12 PM
Quote from: miz on December 02, 2005, 01:32:44 AM
And BTW, we're gonna' block a kick Saturday. 

Wesley may as well. They've done as well as Bridgewater has in that department.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: wrighthall220 on December 02, 2005, 12:31:03 PM
Yep we know that Pat.. hence the post about BC blocking one!  ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 02, 2005, 12:39:50 PM
Right -- but with Miz you can never tell. :)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: wrighthall220 on December 02, 2005, 01:29:40 PM
True, VERY true..  ;D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bmore BC on December 02, 2005, 02:31:47 PM
I think Marcus or Winston is due for a big game. Especially since Marcus has not exploded in the playoffs. wesley can talk about how there defense has shut down the run all year, but according to the stats you all have the worst run defense out of the 3 playoff teams Bridgewater has faced this postseason and neither of those held up. I did hear that wesley has a couple athletes, but I think BC's experience will be one of the many factors that will help them win the game. Plus the BC secondary has not played this well since the 2001 run when everyweek we faced a QB AA and won.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on December 02, 2005, 03:07:24 PM
TO THE BC PROUD AND FAITHFUL,


Goodluck this weekend with Wesley as they are a strong team with lots of momentum going into this game with the vicotry of MHB and also playing at home.  I not only want to see BC win but I want to see the hammer come down this weekend and show off their abilities of the stud RB's and stingy defense which was truly the key to last weeks victory.  Support your team strong just as you did last weekend in Greenville, and take care of the little things and the big things will happen! haha

BC will be in my thoughts on saturday with all the gracious people I met last weekend.  GOODLUCK and safe driving!  And I wish I could get my hands on one of Oline moms Godiva Brownies this saturday!!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on December 02, 2005, 04:43:21 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on December 02, 2005, 03:07:24 PM...I wish I could get my hands on one of Oline moms Godiva Brownies this saturday!!!

You probably could....

I-77 to I-80 to I-76 to PA 100 to US 202 to I-95 to US 1 to US 13!

If you knew where they were going to be, you could have one for breakfast if you left any time in the next 8 hours.

Problem with wishes:  Everybody thinks Genie's gonna pop out of the lamp and just give them to you!

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on December 02, 2005, 05:06:30 PM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on December 01, 2005, 11:35:38 PM
LLama
  how many of you crazed posters will be at the game?  should be one great crowd.

  we usually sit to the left of the booth, second row from the top, unreserved seating. introduce youself if you can get to that side of the field!!!


There should be 8-10 BC posters there. I'll try to get over there before the game starts and say hello. ;)

I'm easy to spot, red (home) BC jersey #87, with camo pants, victory beads, and a beverage in hand! ;D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on December 02, 2005, 06:15:03 PM
I will be dress WARM but I will look for you as long as we get outta PA early enough
Quote from: Llamaguy on December 02, 2005, 05:06:30 PM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on December 01, 2005, 11:35:38 PM
LLama
  how many of you crazed posters will be at the game?  should be one great crowd.

  we usually sit to the left of the booth, second row from the top, unreserved seating. introduce youself if you can get to that side of the field!!!


There should be 8-10 BC posters there. I'll try to get over there before the game starts and say hello. ;)

I'm easy to spot, red (home) BC jersey #87, with camo pants, victory beads, and a beverage in hand! ;D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Jeremybozz on December 02, 2005, 08:44:53 PM
This poster will be there if my alarm clock works.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: WCswann28sis on December 03, 2005, 01:05:55 AM
skoaltrain,

At least when someone had something to debate with me at least it had something to do with football.  All you have to come at me with is about my grammer usage, oh please get a life.  I'll type how I want and if you don't like it you don't have to read it, I'm not on here to astonish you with my writing skills, you're not one of my college professors. :P

Good luck to both teams tomorrow. And to all, safe travels tomorrow, stay warm.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 03, 2005, 07:19:27 AM
WCswann28sis, as I said above, welcome to the board!  I am happy to have the engaged "Wesley World" so excited.  BC has been at the top of the South Region for all of the 21st Century, so it is fun to see a newcomer from the north half of the South Region!

Altho' this is a message board and not your master's thesis, your most recent reply was enjoyable to read.  D3football- and d3hoops-fans read so many posts over the period of a season, that it is fun zipping thru the well-written posts, comprehending the gist of the message and then moving on to the next one.  A cogent, visually-pleasing post does reflect well on the poster and the school.  The attempt to use punctuation does help with the message and any nuance that the author wishes to give.  "Keyboard dyslexia"  is usually apparent for just that and recognized by the reader.

Today, I think that I am rooting for the "newbie".  You rather convincingly "smash-mouthed" our conference champion last weekend.  So on to BC!  Go South Region!  :)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on December 03, 2005, 07:58:19 AM
I agree with you Ralph.  Today I am a Wesley fan.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on December 03, 2005, 10:13:07 AM
At least we are having playoffs, unlike the goofy BCS for D 1.  I saw on the ESPN website this morning that Congress is going to hold hearings on the BCS.  That could be very interesting.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: cptculo17 on December 03, 2005, 04:17:06 PM
Well...well...well...
I guess the kicker knows what hes talking about....all of you sorry BC fans talking smack on my team now know what the last 3 teams felt...humiliation...ive seen more offense in a chess match...that was terrible...how you guys made it this far...i have no clue...now i know why no ODAC team ever plays us in the regular season because we have tried and your coach keeps denying us...because after todays romping...u know why too...yea...we havent seen your passing game yet or running game yet...are you serious....that was pathetic...and finally i guess it took 2 blowouts and a major upset against UMHB to get front cover on D3.com...like i said...start giving this team respect because there is only 4 teams left after today...and WESLEY is one of them baby...bring on the next victim...bc nothing is stopping this momentum
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: cptculo17 on December 03, 2005, 04:18:26 PM
And for all you WESLEY faithful out there...i applaud you...I got your back like you got mine
And all my diehard tailgators ...we sure know how to get it done...WHOOOOOOOP!!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 03, 2005, 04:21:08 PM
Quote from: cptculo17 on December 03, 2005, 04:17:06 PM
Well...well...well...
I guess the kicker knows what hes talking about....all of you sorry BC fans talking smack on my team now know what the last 3 teams felt...humiliation...ive seen more offense in a chess match...that was terrible...how you guys made it this far...i have no clue...now i know why no ODAC team ever plays us in the regular season because we have tried and your coach keeps denying us...because after todays romping...u know why too...yea...we havent seen your passing game yet or running game yet...are you serious....that was pathetic...and finally i guess it took 2 blowouts and a major upset against UMHB to get front cover on D3.com...like i said...start giving this team respect because there is only 4 teams left after today...and WESLEY is one of them baby...bring on the next victim...bc nothing is stopping this momentum

You were also on the cover after the Salisbury game and the week after for Around the Nation. And I personally named Wesley my Cinderella team on ESPNews on the selection show.

Guess you are new to the site or something.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PittTBCW on December 03, 2005, 04:23:41 PM
Congrats to Wesley on thier victory today!

I think you showed more doubters that the 47-0 loss to Brockport was a fluke or just a bad game as you went through the South region and won it. Congrats again and keep your kicker focused on the uprights instead of post patterns. I am sure he will have to face a tough kick sometime soon and I don't want to see him choke then get humiliated in this forum.

cptculo17 congrats on the win!

I know your backing your team but be careful!

Hopefully you can beat the winner of Whitewater/Linefield and take the South region all the way with the high powered offense of yours!!!

BC great season!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: iLuvWCFB on December 03, 2005, 04:32:20 PM
Never a doubt....Congratulations WESLEY!!  ;D :-*

You guys are absolutely amazing!  Nothing beats a Wesley crowd, we love our boys!!  ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: umhbalum on December 03, 2005, 04:46:10 PM
Congrats Wesley and keep it going.  I would like to look back and say that my Crusaders lost to the National Champions
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on December 03, 2005, 05:10:52 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on December 01, 2005, 11:01:05 AM
Just can't find it in myself to pick Wesley.

I'm not sure what it is, but in the National Quarterfinals, I just can not pick a team that got smoked (47-0) by a .500 ballclub.

I could be dead wrong, but I'll have to live with that if I am....

Like I said, I could be dead wrong......

You guys from B.C. keep making me look like a dolt!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: cptculo17 on December 03, 2005, 06:06:41 PM
Hey Pat,

I just said what had to be said...im not fairly new to D3...I was a former player and since not playing this yr have been on d3 more often than ever...

yes we did get an article after salisbury...but ever since then, this team has been making some serious noise in the playoffs and putting up some scorching numbers on offense...I did watch you pick them as your cinderella just i feel that this team has been slapped around by other so called fans who think they know football...and im just tired of getting on d3.com everyday to read about Mt.Union, or Rowan, or Linfield/ whitewater...same old same old...heres a little college from Dover, DE who are one game away from the Stagg Bowl and should be getting more credit than they have...now thats an interesting story
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Toby Taff on December 03, 2005, 06:07:38 PM
Congrats Wesley!

Represent the south well!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on December 03, 2005, 08:18:15 PM
Geeesh if you are a former player than do Wesley proud and RELAX!!!! If you had been here all year you would know that people are starting to respect the program. Coach Drass is getting out of this group more than he could have envisioned So enjoy the ride...
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on December 03, 2005, 08:41:30 PM
Wouldn't it be something if the two school with abouta stones throw apart across the Delaware played for it all in Va. in two weeks??? It does take a bit longer to drive around to get to the schools!!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: wrighthall220 on December 03, 2005, 09:57:54 PM
Congrats Wesley.. try to make the South proud... you may want to dump fans like cptculo17 in the ditch on your trip west however, he only makes your school looks like  a$$.   ::)   (I thought you weren't a kicker?  ::) ???)    Congrats again to Wesley! Keep it up... again cptculo17, learn some class with winning and losing and then we'll talk again.  (also before you knock BC.. your own coach tried to model his program after ours.. so think twice, three times before trashing a program I have a feeling you know NOTHING about)

Nice season BC! :)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PittTBCW on December 04, 2005, 10:45:37 AM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on December 03, 2005, 08:18:15 PM
Geeesh if you are a former player than do Wesley proud and RELAX!!!! If you had been here all year you would know that people are starting to respect the program. Coach Drass is getting out of this group more than he could have envisioned So enjoy the ride...

Amen to that!!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PittTBCW on December 04, 2005, 12:48:03 PM
When do the All-American and Region awards come out?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: miz on December 04, 2005, 04:39:11 PM
Contrats to Wesley and good luck in Wisconson.  Had to listen to the game on the radio, but sounded like you guys are playing great right now. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: cptculo17 on December 05, 2005, 10:48:16 AM
again cptculo17, learn some class with winning and losing and then we'll talk again.  (also before you knock BC.. your own coach tried to model his program after ours.. so think twice, three times before trashing a program I have a feeling you know NOTHING about)

Hold on there wright...class? hmm...i dont think our coach preaches being sore losers and then have his own players (BC) start throwing bottles and harrasing are QB at the end of the game) yea some class some of your players have...

I got class...I never had any problems with you BC fans until some of the remarks made by your players and Coaches...for instance your coach saying that yea Wesley has "a good offense, defense, and Special teams..but besides than that, what else do they bring to the table...well I guess you guys all found out on Sat...so I think you guys are the ones who need some class...no stop your giving me a headache listening to you cry
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on December 05, 2005, 10:54:19 AM
Quote from: cptculo17 on December 05, 2005, 10:48:16 AM
[...]

I never had any problems with you BC fans until some of the remarks made by your players and Coaches...for instance your coach saying that yea Wesley has "a good offense, defense, and Special teams..but besides than that, what else do they bring to the table...well I guess you guys all found out on Sat...so I think you guys are the ones who need some class...no stop your giving me a headache listening to you cry

lol ... how sad you didn't pick up on the fact Coach Clark was being sarcastic.

You just keep making yourself look better and better ;) ... I can't wait to see what post #8 brings!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: religion_major on December 05, 2005, 10:54:41 AM
Quote from: cptculo17 on December 05, 2005, 10:48:16 AM
again cptculo17, learn some class with winning and losing and then we'll talk again.  (also before you knock BC.. your own coach tried to model his program after ours.. so think twice, three times before trashing a program I have a feeling you know NOTHING about)

Hold on there wright...class? hmm...i dont think our coach preaches being sore losers and then have his own players (BC) start throwing bottles and harrasing are QB at the end of the game) yea some class some of your players have...

I got class...I never had any problems with you BC fans until some of the remarks made by your players and Coaches...for instance your coach saying that yea Wesley has "a good offense, defense, and Special teams..but besides than that, what else do they bring to the table...well I guess you guys all found out on Sat...so I think you guys are the ones who need some class...no stop your giving me a headache listening to you cry

You forgot to mention how the paper artical stated that Coach Clark added a chuckle after he said that.  Translation: "Wesley is good at everything.  This will be a very tough game to win."  Most football fans understand that there are three dimentions to football: offense, defense and special teams.  To say that a team is good at all three indicates to the informed reader that the team in question (in this case Wesley) is a very good football team.  You will note this statement was made before Wesley double monkey stompped BC not afterwards.  It also shows that you are looking for what you want to see, disrespect for Wesley by others, not the message that the speaker, Bridgewater Coach Mike Clark, was most likely attempting to bring.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: wrighthall220 on December 05, 2005, 11:18:32 AM
cptculo17,
If your spelling is any indication of your education I will step back and apologize.. I truly do not like picking on those who cannot for their own thoughts. :(    Keep it up "genious"  (that's  spelling at its finest!)   ::)  There's no crying here.. none at all I'm proud of how far BC made it this year!  I'm impressed with Wesley, but again I think you're a dolt without class.  Just my opinion.  (the dolt comment  from the spelling and the lack of class from everyone of your posts)   I'm hoping for something "genious" from "are" local Southern Region Spelling Champ in post #8!!! Whoot!  ::)   

*note I think Wesley has a great team,  a majority of the Wesley fans are great and have decent opinions..cptculo17 is the exception to the rule... but then again kickers don't have to know TOOOOOO much to play football!  :D   
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: dedragon on December 05, 2005, 11:47:13 AM
Quote from: cptculo17 on December 05, 2005, 10:48:16 AM
again cptculo17, learn some class with winning and losing and then we'll talk again.  (also before you knock BC.. your own coach tried to model his program after ours.. so think twice, three times before trashing a program I have a feeling you know NOTHING about)

Hold on there wright...class? hmm...i dont think our coach preaches being sore losers and then have his own players (BC) start throwing bottles and harrasing are QB at the end of the game) yea some class some of your players have...

I got class...I never had any problems with you BC fans until some of the remarks made by your players and Coaches...for instance your coach saying that yea Wesley has "a good offense, defense, and Special teams..but besides than that, what else do they bring to the table...well I guess you guys all found out on Sat...so I think you guys are the ones who need some class...no stop your giving me a headache listening to you cry

cptculo17,

It is one thing to be ignorant, it is a totally different thing to fluant it.  Don'tcha think?  I wouldn't worry about what anyone says about Wesley.  At this point, Wesley deserves respect as the South Region Champions, which by the way, is what 99% of these posters are giving them.  Beyond that, Wesley will have to earn it once again.  That is the simple and plain truth.  I hope that Wesley will continue to put together a solid game plan followed solid execution.  Whitewater will prove to be a much different task than BC and if they win in Wisconsin then the Wolverines will garner more respect as a Stagg Bowl participant.

So, as they say in DE "Back it down".  BC is now in the past.  Move on and lighten up.

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: wrighthall220 on December 05, 2005, 12:01:04 PM
dedragon,
You hit the nail on the head,  I think sometimes people want more than they deserve.  Sure Wesley is having a great YEAR and they deserve all the credit in the world.  HOWEVER, they've won how many playoff games in the history of their program?  I know of 3 playoff wins by Wesley, granted they were big wins but no one in their right mind would expect to be touted in the same way the press does for  Mount Union or Rowan, both of those programs have won MULTIPLE region championships, and have made several trips to the Stagg Bowl.   Now if someone wants to complain about the respect given to say BC over Wesley.. it should be looked at in the same light as the Mount Union/Rowan example, with just a slightly smaller amount of light.   BC has won on a more consistant basis than Wesley and may have fallen short this year but it does not discredit the fact that they have the 3rd longest active playoff streak.  When Wesley catches up to consistant playoff teams they will EARN the respect they deserve.  It won't be given to them for making it to the final 4  one year.  I'm sure there are plenty of teams that have made it to the final 4 only to never make it past the 1st round again.    Again I give Wesley all the credit in the world.  Keep it up and EVERYONE will give you the credit you deserve... in the mean time you may want to keep some of those "genious" fans in the closet before they embarrass you.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PittTBCW on December 05, 2005, 12:02:16 PM
Someone tell this guy to cut off his hands so he can stop posting...please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: wrighthall220 on December 05, 2005, 12:04:09 PM
 :D  Nice Pitt!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: cptculo17 on December 05, 2005, 12:24:53 PM
Blah Blah Blah...

7 points...

I say no more...

Everything spelled okay for you? I made sure I clicked on spell check up above...sorry for the sentence fragments...don't fail me

What a joke
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: religion_major on December 05, 2005, 12:51:32 PM
Quote from: cptculo17 on December 05, 2005, 12:24:53 PM
Blah Blah Blah...

7 points...

I say no more...

Everything spelled okay for you? I made sure I clicked on spell check up above...sorry for the sentence fragments...don't fail me

What a joke

Most of the posting community has a problem with the fact that you generate no thought whatsoever to add to the conversation not the fact that you can barely spell your own name correctly.  You will note that even posters from your own school consider you a joke (dedragon). 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PittTBCW on December 05, 2005, 12:56:26 PM
I am not failing you so don't worry. Probably a D minus with some bad comments. The reason behind that is that I would actually have to have you in class for another year and that would drive me crazy.

Have a great day.

P.S. If you want I can hook you up with one of my 6th graders for tutoring in spelling and how to quit being a crying annoying person. Let me know!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: cptculo17 on December 05, 2005, 01:04:31 PM
lol

That was pretty funny Pitt...put a smile on my face for the day

Im not so bad in class after all...Im graduating in 4 yrs, done in May
I would of loved to take one your classes of such prestige

p.s. lol (laugh out loud) computer lingo if you didnt get that

Talk to ya later
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: wrighthall220 on December 05, 2005, 01:46:45 PM
So you were cut from Wesley? Quit the team?  If I read that last post correctly you are still IN school... wow.. you truly are a sad sack.


7 points is correct.  I'm glad you can count that high, although I may be giving you too much credit, afterall, you PROBABLY do have 7 fingers.   

GENIOUS! GENIOUS!     :D  WOOT!    ::)



What's with the email change, were you getting too many emails  from Hooked on Phonics?     I'll be sure to send them to: tkmt40@aol.com  ;D :D  What a JOKE!

*Please note I'm not upset over the fact that Wesley was better than BC on 12-3-05.. I just find cptculo17  an amusing fool*
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: firewater on December 05, 2005, 04:17:46 PM
Congrats to Wesley and good luck.  Wesley's fans should be proud and support their team.  You can never make yourself look good by making someone else look bad.  Enjoy the ride and when you get consistent ala Mount Union then you can be arrogant and cocky.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on December 05, 2005, 04:25:50 PM
Quote from: PittTBCW on November 23, 2005, 11:18:12 PM
..I actually know where Bridgewater is in Virginia because of Dawson (W&J's QB from years past)...

From this part of Pennsylvania, let me tell you that knowing "where Bridgewater is in Virginia because of Dawson" could well make me lose my lunch...

I just saw that post from pre-Thanksgiving.

I'd just as soon never read the words "Bridgewater" and "Dawson" together, if it's all the same to you....
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on December 05, 2005, 08:24:22 PM
cptculo17

     You think you Wesley was put down before? You should take a trip to the Wisconsin board they are talking like ther isn't even a game this week.  they are predicting the score for the stagg bowl.
   
     
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PittTBCW on December 05, 2005, 08:27:24 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on December 05, 2005, 04:25:50 PM
Quote from: PittTBCW on November 23, 2005, 11:18:12 PM
..I actually know where Bridgewater is in Virginia because of Dawson (W&J's QB from years past)...

From this part of Pennsylvania, let me tell you that knowing "where Bridgewater is in Virginia because of Dawson" could well make me lose my lunch...

I just saw that post from pre-Thanksgiving.

I'd just as soon never read the words "Bridgewater" and "Dawson" together, if it's all the same to you....


Bob,

I am not being mean or anything don't get me wrong...I coached with him last year at a high school in the south hills and we were talking about D3 football and stuff and he mentioned the B'water game as one of the biggest snowball games he has ever been apart of because we had a game go bad...real bad. Did not mean to upset you.

Sorry Bob
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on December 06, 2005, 08:08:08 AM
Pitt,

No problem, really.

That game with Bridgewater wasn't the definition of a snowball game.

It was an avalanche......
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: historymajor on December 09, 2005, 08:36:54 PM
I was at THE ICE BOWL in Green Bay in '67...... I don't think Whitewater will be THAT cold.... but.... Tell the fans to layer-up... we used sleeping bags zipped up around us... after the beating Wesley put on UMHB and the whomping of BW... we all believe that the WIAC mystique is just that... go there, dress warm, enjoy the moment and put it on those cheese-eaters!
Represent the South Region!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: SeoulGuy on December 09, 2005, 08:51:19 PM
Actually, most of the cheese produced in Wisconsin gets exported. So, to be accurate, you should have said cheesemakers. Just thought I'd point that out :D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 09, 2005, 09:23:13 PM
There are three images at NFL Films that seer the heart of every Dallas Cowboy fan:

1)  The Block--Jerry Kramer's block that lets Bart Starr score the TD in the 1967 NFL Championship game. :(  Lombardi goes on the lead the Packers to win the first NFL-AFL Championship Game.
2)  The Drop--TE Jackie Smith, who is signed specifically by the Cowboys for his skills after a long career with the St Louis Cardinals, drops a TD pass in the end zone in Super Bowl XIII that would have tied the score :( :(

(Tip of the hat to Conrad!)

http://football.about.com/cs/superbowl/a/bl_superbowl13.htm

3)  The Catch--the Montana-to-Clark catch over Everson Walls in the 1981 NFC Championship game. :( :( :(
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: @d3jason on December 09, 2005, 11:31:46 PM
Ralph--
As a Steelers fan, I must mention that Jackie's drop would have only tied the game ;D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: @d3jason on December 09, 2005, 11:34:22 PM
Seoul--
First thing I did this moring when I woke up in Janesville was grab some cheese kurds from the local gas mart. We love cheese in Delaware too.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 10, 2005, 12:40:01 AM
I hear the cheese sunnis and the cheese baathists are all over the cheese kurds. Right, kubiack? :)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: hasanova on December 10, 2005, 01:18:37 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 10, 2005, 12:40:01 AM
I hear the cheese sunnis and the cheese baathists are all over the cheese kurds. Right, kubiack? :)
Did any of those guys play for Colby?  :)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 10, 2005, 01:21:38 AM
Quote from: hasanova on December 10, 2005, 01:18:37 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 10, 2005, 12:40:01 AM
I hear the cheese sunnis and the cheese baathists are all over the cheese kurds. Right, kubiack? :)
Did any of those guys play for Colby?  :)

No, hasanova, the NESCAC does not participate in the post-season for football.  8)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: hasanova on December 10, 2005, 01:26:32 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 10, 2005, 01:21:38 AM
Quote from: hasanova on December 10, 2005, 01:18:37 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 10, 2005, 12:40:01 AM
I hear the cheese sunnis and the cheese baathists are all over the cheese kurds. Right, kubiack? :)
Did any of those guys play for Colby?  :)

No, hasanova, the NESCAC does not participate in the post-season for football.  8)
Yes, I know - I was just continuing the "all-cheese" joke theme Pat started, but I guess it got too "whey" out.  :)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 10, 2005, 01:31:44 AM
Quote from: hasanova on December 10, 2005, 01:26:32 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 10, 2005, 01:21:38 AM
Quote from: hasanova on December 10, 2005, 01:18:37 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 10, 2005, 12:40:01 AM
I hear the cheese sunnis and the cheese baathists are all over the cheese kurds. Right, kubiack? :)
Did any of those guys play for Colby?  :)
No, hasanova, the NESCAC does not participate in the post-season for football.  8)
Yes, I know - I was just continuing the "all-cheese" joke theme Pat started, but I guess it got too "whey" out.  :)

Hasanova, I gave you a karma just for the really good "straight line"!  I couldn't pass up the retort! :D :D :D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 10, 2005, 01:34:10 AM
Quote from: hasanova on December 10, 2005, 01:26:32 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 10, 2005, 01:21:38 AM
Quote from: hasanova on December 10, 2005, 01:18:37 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 10, 2005, 12:40:01 AM
I hear the cheese sunnis and the cheese baathists are all over the cheese kurds. Right, kubiack? :)
Did any of those guys play for Colby?  :)

No, hasanova, the NESCAC does not participate in the post-season for football.  8)
Yes, I know - I was just continuing the "all-cheese" joke theme Pat started, but I guess it got too "whey" out.  :)

Yeah, it's obvious you don't know jack. :)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 10, 2005, 01:38:01 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 10, 2005, 01:34:10 AM
Quote from: hasanova on December 10, 2005, 01:26:32 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 10, 2005, 01:21:38 AM
Quote from: hasanova on December 10, 2005, 01:18:37 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 10, 2005, 12:40:01 AM
I hear the cheese sunnis and the cheese baathists are all over the cheese kurds. Right, kubiack? :)
Did any of those guys play for Colby?  :)

No, hasanova, the NESCAC does not participate in the post-season for football.  8)
Yes, I know - I was just continuing the "all-cheese" joke theme Pat started, but I guess it got too "whey" out.  :)

Yeah, it's obvious you don't know jack. :)

That is as Gouda response as any I have heard! ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: cruprez on December 10, 2005, 04:30:42 PM
after the beating Wesley put on UMHB----we did the "beating" to ourselves....not that Wesley's wasn't good but we were our worse enemy that day.....


Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: tTU719803 on December 10, 2005, 04:54:55 PM
Quote from: cruprez on December 10, 2005, 04:30:42 PM
after the beating Wesley put on UMHB----we did the "beating" to ourselves....not that Wesley's wasn't good but we were our worse enemy that day.....




Trinity could say the exact same thing about our game with UMHB...
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on December 10, 2005, 05:06:44 PM
Most of the turnovers in both of those games were caused by plays the other team made.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: historymajor on December 10, 2005, 05:24:46 PM
Wow, whatever kinda cheese was served,,,, the Wolverines didn't like it!
Well it's the best of the west against the best of the north....  should be a great game.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bwana on December 10, 2005, 06:24:19 PM
Quote from: ttu719803 on December 10, 2005, 04:54:55 PM
Quote from: cruprez on December 10, 2005, 04:30:42 PM
after the beating Wesley put on UMHB----we did the "beating" to ourselves....not that Wesley's wasn't good but we were our worse enemy that day.....




Trinity could say the exact same thing about our game with UMHB...
...and BC could say the exact same thing about our game with Wesley
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on December 10, 2005, 06:42:24 PM
Bwana
There are a lot of people here who could take a lesson from you and your some of your fans.. You people  have a LOT of CLASS and BW should be proud to call you fans
Quote from: Bwana on December 10, 2005, 06:24:19 PM
Quote from: ttu719803 on December 10, 2005, 04:54:55 PM
Quote from: cruprez on December 10, 2005, 04:30:42 PM
after the beating Wesley put on UMHB----we did the "beating" to ourselves....not that Wesley's wasn't good but we were our worse enemy that day.....




Trinity could say the exact same thing about our game with UMHB...
...and BC could say the exact same thing about our game with Wesley
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bwana on December 10, 2005, 10:29:50 PM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on December 10, 2005, 06:42:24 PM
Bwana
There are a lot of people here who could take a lesson from you and your some of your fans.. You people  have a LOT of CLASS and BW should be proud to call you fans
Quote from: Bwana on December 10, 2005, 06:24:19 PM
Quote from: ttu719803 on December 10, 2005, 04:54:55 PM
Quote from: cruprez on December 10, 2005, 04:30:42 PM
after the beating Wesley put on UMHB----we did the "beating" to ourselves....not that Wesley's wasn't good but we were our worse enemy that day.....


Trinity could say the exact same thing about our game with UMHB...
...and BC could say the exact same thing about our game with Wesley

That is very kind of you to say...and not only is BC proud to call us fans, they are proud to call us for donations and contributions!  ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PittTBCW on December 11, 2005, 01:32:22 AM
Congrats to Wesley on a great season!!!

Also congrats are in order to all of the all region South selections this year!!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on December 12, 2005, 03:56:39 PM
Hold on to your hats, fellas.

It's only 11 months to Selection Sunday, 2006!!!

And THAT will be the day a "B" gets a "C".....
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 12, 2005, 03:58:27 PM
And 23 months until Selection Sunday 2007 when the Pres AC will be getting an "A" and hoping for a "C". :D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on December 12, 2005, 04:10:08 PM
At least then, we'll KNOW there's one getting in.

Think about this:

It's probably a good thing the NCAA turned down the PAC waiver request.

Had it been approved, Thiel is the "AQ".  And I wouldn't have wanted to be sitting on the edge of Jewel's couch waiting to see if the Red & Black got  a "C".

I certainly wouldn't have had the confidence in a "C" that I had in the "B".
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bwana on December 12, 2005, 10:00:26 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 12, 2005, 03:58:27 PM
And 23 months until Selection Sunday 2007 when the Pres AC will be getting an "A" and hoping for a "C". :D

Ralph, you never cease to amaze and impress with your ability to plan ahead!  ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PittTBCW on December 13, 2005, 08:19:23 AM
Any predictiong for the Stagg Bowl???

Here is a thought.....


Who would have thought that Mount Union would have one loss and still be playing for the National Championship?

Not me there one loss (if it occurs) comes during the post season.

I am looking forward to watching this game I think it will be a good game and I am curious which purple people eater will win! Probably make a predicition sometime later this week. Right now I am thinking Mount Union but I am going to do some research to see what team I think will win it! (Like it really matters)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bwana on December 16, 2005, 09:28:31 PM
Quote from: PittTBCW on December 13, 2005, 08:19:23 AM
Any predictiong for the Stagg Bowl???


Well, pride demands I pick the team that beat the team that beat BC, so...

UWW-35
Mount Union 28
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: spliskin on December 17, 2005, 06:04:02 PM
Quote from: Bwana on December 16, 2005, 09:28:31 PM

Well, pride demands I pick the team that beat the team that beat BC, so...

UWW-35
Mount Union 28

Well, I know this isn't horseshoes, darts, or grenade throwing; but you had the score right anyway.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bwana on December 17, 2005, 08:41:17 PM
Quote from: spliskin on December 17, 2005, 06:04:02 PM
Quote from: Bwana on December 16, 2005, 09:28:31 PM

Well, pride demands I pick the team that beat the team that beat BC, so...

UWW-35
Mount Union 28

Well, I know this isn't horseshoes, darts, or grenade throwing; but you had the score right anyway.

Yes...yes, I did.  so I take some pride in the fact that I had the Purple beating the Purple by 35-28...just that I had the wrong Purple beating the wrong Purple.

Oh, well...
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PittTBCW on December 18, 2005, 07:48:00 PM
Congrats to all members of all the All-American selections!!!

When does the final D3football.com & AFCA Top 25 come out???

Will Thiel finally jump W&J????

Congrats to Mount Union on there win in the Stagg Bowl. The game was great and gave the people a good idea of what D3 football is all about!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bwana on December 20, 2005, 11:45:47 AM
Quote from: PittTBCW on December 18, 2005, 07:48:00 PM
When does the final D3football.com & AFCA Top 25 come out???

Will Thiel finally jump W&J????
That would be a big 10-4, good buddy!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: La Verdad on August 02, 2006, 11:00:10 PM
Mount Union... ???
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 03, 2006, 12:47:52 AM
Quote from: La Verdad on August 02, 2006, 11:00:10 PM
Mount Union... ???

Mount Union is a North Region team.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Hug on September 11, 2006, 09:40:41 AM
Never to early for Hug to think about the playoffs. One huge tally in the column of CNU. The Rowan game will not hurt them, (Out of Region) but the UMHB win could be big for playoff seedings.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: religion_major on September 11, 2006, 06:31:41 PM
Quote from: Hug on September 11, 2006, 09:40:41 AM
Never to early for Hug to think about the playoffs. One huge tally in the column of CNU. The Rowan game will not hurt them, (Out of Region) but the UMHB win could be big for playoff seedings.

That win will be even bigger if UMHB beats Hardin-Simmons for the ASC pool A bid because that would most likely mean that the number one seed will not be from Texas. :)

Sorry Texas guys but I can't travel to Texas to watch a game. ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Hug on September 12, 2006, 12:56:39 PM
The Trinity loss minimizes their chances for a #1 seed. 

History dictates you pretty much have to run the regular season South Region table to get a #1 seed.

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Hug on September 12, 2006, 01:19:06 PM
Question:
Is Brockport St. still in the East Region?  If so, why are they the only school in their conference that is in the East while the rest are in the South?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: muchacho on September 12, 2006, 01:36:46 PM
Regarding Brockport...Its kind of hard to justify a school in NY as being from the South. I have a hard enough time thinking that the PA schools are considered South.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 12, 2006, 01:37:48 PM
Brockport isn't from the South, but yes, everyone else in the ACFC is. It was a little more balanced when Buff State was also in that conference, but they left for the NJAC this year.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Hug on September 12, 2006, 02:22:58 PM
Why wouldn't the NCAA include Brockport in the South Region? Yes I know geographically they do not fit, but they seem to be caught in limbo. Have they tried to find a conference in the east region that will take them?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on September 12, 2006, 06:05:01 PM
I've always wondered why they wouldn't seek membership in the NJAC, too.  God knows, those teams have trouble scheduling DIII opponents, and it would certainly help.  Plus, the institutional profile is similiar enough...

Ponderous.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 12, 2006, 06:49:45 PM
The NCAA doesn't recognize the ACFC, so that's probably why it doesn't consolidate Brockport out of the East.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Hug on September 13, 2006, 01:47:55 PM
Ahhh, so they are basically a group of independents who try to make it easier on their AD's by scheduling each other.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 13, 2006, 05:23:16 PM
Quote from: Hug on September 13, 2006, 01:47:55 PM
Ahhh, so they are basically a group of independents who try to make it easier on their AD's by scheduling each other.

Hug, you are right-on with that statement.

I expect Brockport State and SUNY-Morrisville to join the NJAC soon.  It certainly would help with scheduling, because those NJAC's don't always fill their schedules, especially Rowan.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on September 14, 2006, 10:52:34 AM
I'm not quite sure where to post this, so I'll post it here--I'm not sure it's worthy of its own thread anyway.

Did anyone notice that the date of the Aztec Bowl is the same as the date of the Stagg Bowl? 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: muchacho on September 14, 2006, 10:55:38 AM
I could be wrong, but didn't they occur on the same date last year as well?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on September 14, 2006, 10:57:15 AM
Isn't that why you never get to play in the Aztec if you're in the Stagg?   :)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on September 14, 2006, 11:10:11 AM
You're right, Ron.  And, obviously, everybody wants to be at the Stagg Bowl.  Because of logistics and practice, though, I'd think that it would exclude players from programs who advance to the Quarterfinal round, too--possibly even the second round.

I just think that it's a shame that the two coincide with one another.  I know that the bigger profile games like the Blue-Gray game, the East-West Shrine game, etcetera all operate under the same basic model--i.e. they take players whose team is finished for the year, but the Aztec is the one invitational game that really highlights DIII players, and I wish that it could be open to all players--especially those from teams that have had a successful season.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 14, 2006, 11:40:56 AM
Nah, it only excludes Stagg Bowl participants.

We need to remember that the Aztec Bowl is Mexico's game and the AFCA has no jurisdiction or authority to set a game date or time.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: wrighthall220 on September 14, 2006, 11:52:45 AM
Several players from Bridgewater have played in the Stagg Bowl since 2001 and even though they've been on teams that have gone deep and not so deep in the playoffs they've always managed to make it in time for the game.   It seems to be like a great trip for the kids that get to go and I think it's a great opportunity not only to travel but to bring together D3 players that may never meet/play agaisnt each other.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Hug on October 03, 2006, 02:46:21 PM
Is this a DO-OR-DIE week for UMHB?

A two loss Texas team has notoriously had difficulty making it into the big dance.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Zmotion10 out on 2 on October 03, 2006, 02:51:23 PM
It is for UMHB because they also have Whitewater, HPU and Mississippi College all on the schedule.  Not much room for error.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 03, 2006, 02:55:31 PM
UMHB's safest route to the playoffs is winning Saturday.  2 losses with Whitewater on the schedule make it very difficult.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Olinemom on October 04, 2006, 04:56:02 PM
Quote from: wrighthall220 on September 14, 2006, 11:52:45 AM
Several players from Bridgewater have played in the Stagg Bowl since 2001 and even though they've been on teams that have gone deep and not so deep in the playoffs they've always managed to make it in time for the game.   It seems to be like a great trip for the kids that get to go and I think it's a great opportunity not only to travel but to bring together D3 players that may never meet/play agaisnt each other.
Don't you mean the Aztec Bowl down in Mexico?  I know Marcus went there and Nic did too.  Michael Day as well.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on October 04, 2006, 07:41:50 PM
Quote from: Olinemom on October 04, 2006, 04:56:02 PM
Quote from: wrighthall220 on September 14, 2006, 11:52:45 AM
Several players from Bridgewater have played in the Stagg Bowl since 2001 and even though they've been on teams that have gone deep and not so deep in the playoffs they've always managed to make it in time for the game.   It seems to be like a great trip for the kids that get to go and I think it's a great opportunity not only to travel but to bring together D3 players that may never meet/play agaisnt each other.
Don't you mean the Aztec Bowl down in Mexico?  I know Marcus went there and Nic did too.  Michael Day as well.

From Bridgewater, Davon Cruz (2001) and Jermaine Taylor (2003) were invited, but couldn't play (BC was in the NCAA semis those years).

Mike Day (2002), Lawrence Frierson (2004) and Marcus Washington (2005) were invited and were able to play. So we've had a senior invited the past five years.

I hope Winston Young or Josh Knight are invited, but I really hope they can't play. :)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: religion_major on October 05, 2006, 01:37:25 PM
Quote from: Matt Barnhart (kid) on October 04, 2006, 07:41:50 PM
Quote from: Olinemom on October 04, 2006, 04:56:02 PM
Quote from: wrighthall220 on September 14, 2006, 11:52:45 AM
Several players from Bridgewater have played in the Stagg Bowl since 2001 and even though they've been on teams that have gone deep and not so deep in the playoffs they've always managed to make it in time for the game.   It seems to be like a great trip for the kids that get to go and I think it's a great opportunity not only to travel but to bring together D3 players that may never meet/play agaisnt each other.
Don't you mean the Aztec Bowl down in Mexico?  I know Marcus went there and Nic did too.  Michael Day as well.

From Bridgewater, Davon Cruz (2001) and Jermaine Taylor (2003) were invited, but couldn't play (BC was in the NCAA semis those years).

Mike Day (2002), Lawrence Frierson (2004) and Marcus Washington (2005) were invited and were able to play. So we've had a senior invited the past five years.

I hope Winston Young or Josh Knight are invited, but I really hope they can't play. :)

Makes two of us...
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: billybaroo on October 08, 2006, 11:43:43 PM
UMHB CRUSADERS CRU CRU CRUSADERS WHAT!!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Hug on October 09, 2006, 12:58:40 PM
Sooooo, how do we shape up at this point in the season?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on October 09, 2006, 01:34:26 PM
Quote from: Hug on October 09, 2006, 12:58:40 PM
Sooooo, how do we shape up at this point in the season?

Hopefully Ralph Turner and/or Llamaguy are hard at work to answer this. :)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 09, 2006, 01:52:13 PM
Quote from: Matt Barnhart (kid) on October 09, 2006, 01:34:26 PM
Quote from: Hug on October 09, 2006, 12:58:40 PM
Sooooo, how do we shape up at this point in the season?

Hopefully Ralph Turner and/or Llamaguy are hard at work to answer this. :)

This evening...
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: religion_major on October 09, 2006, 02:24:43 PM
For the South Region Playoff analyisis:

Pool A:

CC: Ursinus(5-0) and Dickenson(4-1) have overall winning records.  Both are still undefeated in conference play.  No other CC team has a winning record, but at this point only Muhlenberg is more than one game out of first place in the conference.  The CC is traditionally unpredictable and at this point I would say that either Ursinus or Dickenson will win the conference considering that they have been the most consistent this year.  I can't see any CC team having the qualifications to get a pool C bid.  Ursinus is the only team that could possibly be 9-1 without winning the conference, and there is no CC team with a quality win to justify consideration at 8-2.

ODAC:  Bridgewater(5-0) and Washington and Lee(4-1) appear to be the main contenders this year.  Catholic(3-2) and Guilford(3-2) both have winning records, but both already have a conference loss and neither have played Bridgewater yet.  Guilford also has yet to play Washington and Lee.  Neither have played consistently enough to garner much consideration in this discussion yet.  A victory by Guilford over Bridgewater would allow them back into the conversation.  I would say that Bridgewater is favorite considering their recent conference record and the fact that Washington and Lee must travel to Bridgewater this year.  The only team that I could see getting much consideration at the pool C level from the ODAC this year would be Bridgewater if they fail to win the conference.  The best that Washington and Lee could do is 8-2 without winning the ODAC and an 8-2 team generally needs a banner win to hang its hat on.  Washington and Lee has not beaten anyone that would qualify as a banner win.

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: religion_major on October 09, 2006, 06:50:22 PM
Pool A continued:

USAC:  Christopher Newport(4-1) and Averett(3-2) are both undefeated in conference play.  Maryville(3-3) is the only other team with a winning record so far in conference play.  It appears to be a two horse race with CNU and Averett for the USAC crown.  CNU has one loss to national power Rowan while Averett's two losses came to Mount Union and Wesley respectively.  CNU might get some pool c consideration should Averett win the conference at 8-2 with a quality win over Mary Hardin-Baylor.  Averett's only hope for the playoffs this year is to beat CNU and win the USAC.

SCAC:  Trinity(5-1), Rhodes(4-1), and Millsaps(2-3) are all undefeated in conference play.  Millsaps would appear to be a non-factor with a losing record at this point in the year.  Trinity should have the inside track to the conference title since they have already beaten the traditional number 2 team in this conference, DePauw(4-1).  Should DePauw win out and beat Wabash in the Mannon Bell game they would have an excellent shot at a pool c bid with a 9-1 record and a win over a quality opponent. 

ASC: Mary Hardin-Baylor(4-1) has established itself as the front runner by beating Hardin-Simmons(3-1).  UMHB is the only undefeated team in ASC play, while HSU, Sul Ross State(3-1), and Louisiana College(3-1) each have only one conference loss.  Louisiana College is the only one ASC loss team that still has to play UMHB giving the Crusaders the inside track to the ASC title and AQ.  Hardin-Simmions has an excellent shot at a pool c bid should they win the remainder of their games considering that they already have a quality win over Linfield.  The UMHB/UW-Whitewater game will likely effect seeding, but with the Crusader's position in the conference race, it will not have much of an impact on their ability to make the playoffs.

Disclaimer: The language of quality win for the purposes of my playoff projections means a win over a likely regionally ranked team, which is a primary criteria for determining at large bids. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: religion_major on October 09, 2006, 07:06:55 PM
Pool B:

The South region contains two pool B conferences and a sprinkling of Independents compeating for one of the four nation wide pool B playoff spots.  Looking at the regional location of Pool B conferences, I believe that 2-3 of the 4 pool B bids will come from South Region teams.  Wesley(5-0) is at this point almost a shoe-in for a pool B birth.  Carnegie Mellon(5-0) and Washington and Jefferson(4-1) appear to have decent selection but cannot afford to stumble if they wish to get a bid.  Results from the Northwest Conference will play a part here because Linfield(2-1, and a non-d3 loss) and Witworth(5-0) are also compeating with CMU and W&J for 3 pool B spots.  I believe that Linfield must either beat Witworth or pray that CMU and W&J do not finish 10-0 and 9-1 respectively.  At this point CMU, W&J and Linfield all lack a quality win.  A win over Witworth would be a quality win for Linfield.  Neither CMU or W&J has a game left on their schedule that would likely constitute a quality win.  Rockford(5-1) is also still in the pool B race.  Rockford does not have a quality win opportunity left either and would need to win out to get much consideration.  Witworth and Wesley are the only teams that can afford a slipup and still make the playoffs in pool B without help.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: religion_major on October 09, 2006, 07:09:55 PM
Projected South Region Playoff teams:

Wesley
Bridgewater
Dickenson
CNU
UMHB
Hardin-Simmons
Trinity
CMU
DePauw

With someone being moved out of region.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 09, 2006, 07:41:26 PM
Religion major,  out of those 9 teams, who would you project being moved out of region?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 09, 2006, 08:29:08 PM
Major,

Are you saying W&J doesn't make it, even if they run the table?

Are you saying W&J gets shipped somewhere else?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on October 09, 2006, 09:02:25 PM
Quote from: Matt Barnhart (kid) on October 09, 2006, 01:34:26 PM
Quote from: Hug on October 09, 2006, 12:58:40 PM
Sooooo, how do we shape up at this point in the season?

Hopefully Ralph Turner and/or Llamaguy are hard at work to answer this. :)

Working on this weekend's tailgate! I'll begin compiling my notes and make predictions after all this weekends results are in the book. ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 09, 2006, 09:28:04 PM
Good capsule summaries of the various conferences by religion major (+1 K)

Thru week #6, here is my take:

1)  Wesley -- In the absence of QOWI numbers, and anticipating an undefeated season, they are the #1 Seed.
2)  Bridgewater -- ODAC Champion.  Finishes with an in-region record of 10-0.
3)  CNU -- USAC.  Captians handle Averett. Have an in-region record of 9-0.
4)  UMHB -- Pool A winner from the ASC.  I won't try to "overplay the hand" so I will say that UMHB finishes in-region 8-2 with losses to CNU and UW-W.
5)  HSU -- Top Pool C bid.  Finishes in-region 8-1.
6)  Trinity -- SCAC Pool A bid.
7)  W&J -- Pool B bid (for the last year).
8 )  Ursinus -- Centennial winner Pool A bid.  Gets sent to the East.

My pairings:

Wesley* hosts CNU
Bridgewater hosts W&J

HSU hosts Trinity
UMHB** hosts a fly-in.

Wesley hosts second and third rounds. 
**UMHB hosts second round.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: religion_major on October 09, 2006, 09:37:40 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 09, 2006, 08:29:08 PM
Major,

Are you saying W&J doesn't make it, even if they run the table?

Are you saying W&J gets shipped somewhere else?

Bob,

I'm saying that I think W&J will slip up.  If they run the table W&J will get a B or a C at 9-1.  Maybe I am being too hard on them.  I also believe that CMU is one of the few teams that will get left out at 9-1, espessially if W&J wins out.  I also think that this discussion of W&J vs CMU becomes a moot point if Whitworth can beat Linfield.  A Linfield team with 2 in-region losses stays home if W&J is 9-1 and CMU is 10-0.  If Whitworth can beat Linfield then I will put both W&J and CMU in. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: religion_major on October 09, 2006, 09:40:19 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on October 09, 2006, 07:41:26 PM
Religion major,  out of those 9 teams, who would you project being moved out of region?

I would say that either DaPauw or CMU(W&J if CMU slips up) gets sent North or Dickenson goes east.  I would say Dickenson goes east.

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 09, 2006, 09:54:03 PM
CMU gets a bid at 10-0.  They may not get a bid at 9-1 if their QOWI is too low.

You cannot ask a team to do anything other than win all of your games!

I think that they will lose one...just the odds, no other reason.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: religion_major on October 09, 2006, 10:04:29 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 09, 2006, 09:28:04 PM
Good capsule summaries of the various conferences by religion major (+1 K)

Thru week #6, here is my take:

1)  Wesley -- In the absence of QOWI numbers, and anticipating an undefeated season, they are the #1 Seed.
2)  Bridgewater -- ODAC Champion.  Finishes with an in-region record of 10-0.
3)  CNU -- USAC.  Captians handle Averett. Have an in-region record of 9-0.
4)  UMHB -- Pool A winner from the ASC.  I won't try to "overplay the hand" so I will say that UMHB finishes in-region 8-2 with losses to CNU and UW-W.
5)  HSU -- Top Pool C bid.  Finishes in-region 8-1.
6)  Trinity -- SCAC Pool A bid.
7)  W&J -- Pool B bid (for the last year).
8 )  Ursinus -- Centennial winner Pool A bid.  Gets sent to the East.

My pairings:

Wesley* hosts CNU
Bridgewater hosts W&J

HSU hosts Trinity
UMHB** hosts a fly-in.

Wesley hosts second and third rounds. 
**UMHB hosts second round.


Ralph,

Given your seedings, I have an issue with your pairings in the Mid-Atlantic sub-region.  W&J is able to drive to Wesley, as is CNU able to drive to Bridgewater.  With this being said, I cannot see why the NCAA in all their stupidity would have 1 vs 3 and 2 vs 7 in the sub-region. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 09, 2006, 10:45:03 PM
Candidly, the way that I seed and the way the pairings come from behind closed doors frequently do not agree.

IMHO, W&J has gotten favorable treatment many times, and I think that they are able to convince the committee and the NCAA that it is in the best interest of the NCAA for them to play Bridgewater and let Wesley and CNU play. ;)

#2 W&J  vs. #6 BC in 2004 (http://www.d3football.com/notables/2004/11)  And CNU vs. Salisbury

#6 seed W&J got #7 seed CNU in 2002 (http://www.d3football.com/playoffs/02/index.html), the same year that #2 seed Trinity hosted #3 seed UMHB, and #4 seed Kings got #5 seed Salisbury.



Remember, geographic proximity is the reason for the "Texas subbracket".
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CaptainChris on October 09, 2006, 11:48:02 PM
CNU wouldn't have a higher seed with their strength of schedule if they finished out at 9-0 in the region?  Their other out of conference game was Salisbury who beat a likely playoff team in W&J.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: religion_major on October 10, 2006, 12:19:25 AM
Quote from: CaptainChris on October 09, 2006, 11:48:02 PM
CNU wouldn't have a higher seed with their strength of schedule if they finished out at 9-0 in the region?  Their other out of conference game was Salisbury who beat a likely playoff team in W&J.

CNU would have a higher seed than W&J assuming that both win out.  If they do not then the committee does not even believe in its own criteria. :)




















Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CaptainChris on October 10, 2006, 12:37:03 AM
I am talking about a higher seed then 3rd.  If they were to finish 9-1 with their only loss out of region to MAYBE the #1 seed in the east Rowan and out of conference wins against UMHB and Salisbury.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: religion_major on October 10, 2006, 01:01:06 AM
Quote from: CaptainChris on October 10, 2006, 12:37:03 AM
I am talking about a higher seed then 3rd.  If they were to finish 9-1 with their only loss out of region to MAYBE the #1 seed in the east Rowan and out of conference wins against UMHB and Salisbury.

They won't jump a 10-0 Bridgewater or a 10-0 Wesley.  Trinity was not a very good 9-0 last year and Theil was not as strong as the typical 10-0 but they still got the #1 and #2 seeds.  CNU's QOWI might not be that much better than Bridgewater's when all is said and done.  While BC's non-conference victories were not against very strong teams, the ODAC as a conference had a much better non-conference record than the USAC did this year. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 10, 2006, 01:39:41 AM
QOWs:
http://www.d3football.com/qow.php

2     Mary Hardin-Baylor     12.200     4-1, 4-1
10    Hardin-Simmons    11.200    3-1, 3-1
12    Christopher Newport    11.000    4-0, 4-1
12   Wesley    11.000    4-0, 5-0
21    Dickinson    10.400    4-1, 4-1
26    DePauw    10.000    4-1, 4-1
26   Washington and Jefferson    10.000    3-1, 4-1
34   Washington and Lee    9.800    4-1, 4-1
36   Thiel    9.750    2-2, 3-3
38    Trinity (Texas)    9.667    5-1, 5-1
28   Ursinus    9.667    3-0, 5-0
40    Bridgewater (Va.)    9.600    5-0, 5-0
40   Huntingdon    9.600    3-2, 3-3
49   Johns Hopkins    9.333    2-1, 2-3
49   Salisbury    9.333    1-2, 2-3
55    Rhodes    9.200    4-1, 4-1
59   Carnegie Mellon    9.000    4-0, 5-0
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 10, 2006, 06:02:10 AM
Ralph, If TLU were to win out, could they receive a bid at 8-2?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 10, 2006, 06:34:32 AM
Good Morning, Bill!

A 2-loss TLU is awfully deep in the bubble.  The implied win over HSU knocks HSU onto the bubble as well.

I don't think that we will see a 2 (in-region) loss team get a Pool C bid.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 10, 2006, 06:54:39 AM
One other factor that impacts the ASC dramatically is the leveling out effect that the late season losses by the ASC teams in conference play has on the QOWI.  The ASC has had a good non-conference/in-region record.

Good wins for QOWI:

HSU -- UWSP and Linfield
LaCollege -- Millsaps and LaGrange
McM -- Austin College
MissCollege -- Millsaps and (??LaGrange??)
TLU -- Austin College and Trinity

UMHB -- (??UW-Whitewater??)

No Impact -- (may be detrimental if substituting a win over a D3 would boost the team into another QOWI Quantum (a scientifically precise term for a higher level of value.)

ETBU- Ouachita Baptist
HPU -- Southern Nazarene and Paul Quinn -- if HPU finishes 4-4 in conference play then there is no impact.
Sul Ross -- Southwestern Assemblies

Losses -- These in-region losses hurt QOWI, because you get fewer points towards the index by the value of the game, and because of the multiplier effect.  A loss by ETBU to Trinity will hurt the whole conference if ETBU only finishes 4-5 in region.  ETBU game values would be 10-11 for victories and 2-3 for defeats.  If a win over Trinity would have given ETBU a 5-4 record in South Region games, then a victory over ETBU would be worth 12-13 points and a defeat to ETBU would be worth 4-5 points towards calculating the index.

ETBU -- Trinity
McM -- Menlo
UMHB -- CNU
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CNULifer on October 14, 2006, 08:18:25 PM
You guys need to rethink all of your south brackets now that BC is not going to be 10-0.  Maybe they should have played a tougher out of conference schedule, hindsight being 20/20 and all.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on October 14, 2006, 10:17:38 PM
Quote from: CNULifer on October 14, 2006, 08:18:25 PM
You guys need to rethink all of your south brackets now that BC is not going to be 10-0.  Maybe they should have played a tougher out of conference schedule, hindsight being 20/20 and all.

I'm sorry Lifer but for a guy who is an educated "broker" / "company owner" thats a pretty "grade school comment", LOL! A couple of drops of blood in the water and Lifer becomes a Great White! If CNU trips up which I hope they won't, be assured the favor won't be returned, but glad you enjoyed the BC loss. ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CNULifer on October 15, 2006, 09:35:25 AM
Never said I was all those things.  Just asked why I couldn't be?  Check my post.

I did not enjoy BC loss.  Just thought that the out of confernce schedule bit bc a little, now that they are not going 10-0.  Hey, BC will probably win out and still get to the dance.  They just won' have the easiest road to travel when they get there.

Easy scheduling in my mind is very scary because you can never take your conference for granted.  I know this will upset the usac guys but, maybe exculding CNU's first year, CNU was the best team in the conference by far and we still couldn't beat SU.  The posts before had a lot of rahrah for each team BC / CNU.  This post does not.  What has now happened to BC is exactly what I was trying to convey earlier.  The possiblity of loss is always there.  BC is now left with a now what situation where they have to root for other teams so that they may get in the Playoffs.

As far as CNU goes, I am far from convinced that we will win out.  We took some steps saturday.  But D stopped playing at half time. 

The real question for me is what would happen if CNU does stumble one time.

Here is the hypothetical.  CNU goes 8 - 1 in region and BC goes 9 - 1 in region.  Who would get the playoff bid and why?  Strength of schedule is on CNU's side and Margin of Victory and Playoff presidence is on BC side.  What is more important?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 15, 2006, 10:40:18 AM
That's not enough data.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on October 15, 2006, 11:41:54 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 15, 2006, 10:40:18 AM
That's not enough data.

I'll help him out Pat. ;)

First off, if BC doesn't win out its a moot point to be compared to CNU.

If W&L loses to Guilford next week then Guilford would hold the tiebreaker and would be the ODAC Champion provided they win out. BC would then fall into Pool C consideration.

Here is the Comparison:Primary Selection Criteria    CNU   vs.   BC


In addition to this the secondary critera that may come into play is:
1) Overall D3 won/loss% = 8-2   vs.  9-1
2) results vs. ranked in other regions =  0-1  vs. 0-0
3) overall D3 sos = 9.8 vs. 9.5

*a few assumptions were made:
CNU's loss would be to Averett
W&L & Averett would be a regionally ranked team

Based on all this I would say CNU would hold the advantage with the only way BC would look better would be if CNU's loss would be to Ferrum. In that case BC would hold the "in region common opponent" advantage and would look better by beating Shenandoah by 30pts vs. 14pts for CNU.

Personally if CNU loses a game I would be more worried about Depauw winning out and getting the Pool C bid over CNU. Carnegie Mellon would also have to be considered if they go undefeated.

At this point barring an unforseen occurance, (like they somehow win their conference) I see Hardin-Simmons, UW-Lacrosse, Capital, and St. Olaf as very good bets to receive Pool C bids. In my opinion that leaves about 18-20 teams alive for 3 spots, nationwide.

In a nutshell, you better win your conference this year because there could be some tough decisions made by the selection committee come November. ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on October 15, 2006, 12:15:28 PM
Quote from: CNULifer on October 15, 2006, 09:35:25 AM
Never said I was all those things.  Just asked why I couldn't be?  Check my post.


Or you could be a current 5th yr converted CNU LB who hasn't played a varsity down this year, has 24 carries for 60yrd in a career that included a 1 yd TD with 1:38 left in a 35-3 victory over Chowan in 2002. Or maybe not! :o
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 15, 2006, 03:21:41 PM
With the Bridgewater loss, we have seen conventional wisdom thrown out the window!

I am waiting until after week #9 now.

We have also 3 "pool B's" that are contending for slots:  Wesley, CNU and an "undefeated" Carnegie Mellon.

We also may have more than 8 bids out of the South Region which will cause some shifting.

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ryan Tipps on October 15, 2006, 03:35:42 PM
Quote from: CNULifer on October 15, 2006, 09:35:25 AM
Here is the hypothetical.  CNU goes 8 - 1 in region and BC goes 9 - 1 in region.  Who would get the playoff bid and why?  Strength of schedule is on CNU's side and Margin of Victory and Playoff presidence is on BC side.  What is more important?

Even if this scenario (CNU losses to Averett; BC wins out) did happen, aren't the odds heavily in favor that both teams would get a Pool C bid? Since the expanded playoffs, when was the last time a 9-1 team outside of the NEFC actually missed going to the playoffs? And I think a CNU team with only one in-region loss is pretty much guaranteed a Pool C bid. I might be wrong, but I see both teams as being shoo-ins.

The complications will likely be fueled once it comes time to seed these teams.

But the season is far from over, and a lot can happen...
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on October 15, 2006, 03:59:34 PM
Quote from: WCLegacy on October 15, 2006, 03:35:42 PM
Quote from: CNULifer on October 15, 2006, 09:35:25 AM
Here is the hypothetical.  CNU goes 8 - 1 in region and BC goes 9 - 1 in region.  Who would get the playoff bid and why?  Strength of schedule is on CNU's side and Margin of Victory and Playoff presidence is on BC side.  What is more important?

Even if this scenario (CNU losses to Averett; BC wins out) did happen, aren't the odds heavily in favor that both teams would get a Pool C bid? Since the expanded playoffs, when was the last time a 9-1 team outside of the NEFC actually missed going to the playoffs? And I think a CNU team with only one in-region loss is pretty much guaranteed a Pool C bid. I might be wrong, but I see both teams as being shoo-ins.

The complications will likely be fueled once it comes time to seed these teams.

But the season is far from over, and a lot can happen...

CNU may but I doubt BC would get in and it could be tight for CNU. Remember that the Pool C is for runners-up or worse of automatic bid conferences, independents, and any leftovers from the teams not getting one of four Pool B bid. Just a quick look at the standings, their are atleast 20 teams with 1 or 0 D3 regional losses. As I said 3-4 spots are already well on the way to be locked up. There could be as many as 8-10 teams with 1 regional loss at the close of the season. Those 8-10 will be vying for 7 spots and that is assuming one of the undefeated conference leaders doesn't lose their conference to a 2 regional loss team and back into one of Pool C spots.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ryan Tipps on October 15, 2006, 04:16:17 PM
Quote from: Llamaguy on October 15, 2006, 03:59:34 PM
CNU may but I doubt BC would get in and it could be tight for CNU. Remember that the Pool C is for runners-up or worse of automatic bid conferences, independents, and any leftovers from the teams not getting one of four Pool B bid. Just a quick look at the standings, their are atleast 20 teams with 1 or 0 D3 regional losses. As I said 3-4 spots are already well on the way to be locked up. There could be as many as 8-10 teams with 1 regional loss at the close of the season. Those 8-10 will be vying for 7 spots and that is assuming one of the undefeated conference leaders doesn't lose their conference to a 2 regional loss team and back into one of Pool C spots.

I still think BC would have a spot in the playoffs because a 9-1 record overall is pretty tough to ignore. I realize that their nonconference SOS isn't all that wonderful, but it's still a solid record. And CNU gets in on the merits of the big win against UMHB and a good win against Salisbury.

There are lots of teams out there that look good on paper at this point in the season, but I think the list will be considerably pared down once Week 11 is over. In this guy's opinion, BC and CNU would both have a spot if all of these "ifs" and "assumptions" fall into place.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on October 15, 2006, 04:57:14 PM
Unless alot of teams lose BC will not get the Pool C.

One loss is one loss and as long as there are 8-10 teams in that position BC will be on the outside looking in.

BC has tradition but tradition doesn't count in the selections although it can help with seeding once you are in. (unspoken though)

BC has:


*Insert weak schedule comments here*

BC has had two hitches this year, 1) they had no way of knowing McDaniel & Ferrum would be this bad this year, 2) they have not taken care of their own business against Guilford.

BC's best bet for the playoffs is with a W&L win next week and a showdown at Jopson Field for the ODAC Championship provided the winner of that game wins out. ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 16, 2006, 01:45:05 AM
Ehh, no offense, but McDaniel has been headed this way for a long time. I'll definitely grant Ferrum but McDaniel should not be a surprise.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on October 16, 2006, 08:28:04 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 16, 2006, 01:45:05 AM
Ehh, no offense, but McDaniel has been headed this way for a long time. I'll definitely grant Ferrum but McDaniel should not be a surprise.

Not 2-8 or 3-7 bad! Yes they are no longer a regional power but they have been a .500 team or better since they started playing BC. I was refering to BC's QOWI being less than normal because Ferrum & McDaniel are less than .333 teams this year. I do respect your opinion that they aren't as good as they used to be though. ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Hug on October 16, 2006, 11:12:00 AM
A question for Pat, or anybody who wants to take a crack at it.

Why would the Hardin-Simmons vs. UW-Stevens-Point game be in-region
while the CNU vs. Rowan game be out-of-region
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 16, 2006, 11:15:44 AM
b/c the NCAA is stupid?   ;D

Seriously, they changed the rules this season so that the teams in the West and (at least some) South could play each other and be "in-region," b/c they have a hard time finding enough in-region teams to put together a non-conference schedule.  They did it on a state-by-state basis.

The fact that the geographic distances for "in-region" are now totally out of whack between regions as a result apparently didn't seem important to the committee.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 16, 2006, 11:21:46 AM
Ron, If Sul Ross were to win out and beat HSU, do they have a shot at a Pool C?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: wrighthall220 on October 16, 2006, 11:37:29 AM
Quote from: Hug on October 16, 2006, 11:12:00 AM
A question for Pat, or anybody who wants to take a crack at it.

Why would the Hardin-Simmons vs. UW-Stevens-Point game be in-region
while the CNU vs. Rowan game be out-of-region

Because of how the lines are drawn for regions.. it doesn't make much sense that W&J is considered to be in the same region as a team from Texas.. but that's just the way it is.   
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 16, 2006, 12:00:54 PM
wrighthall220, UMHB-UW Whitewater is also an in-region game.  I'm not sure UMHB would have been so excited to schedule that game had they known it would count as an in-region.  Oh well, NCAA!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 16, 2006, 12:15:35 PM
I think they'd need some help, to be honest.  Only 7-1 in region will impact their QoWI vs. teams that are 9-1 or 8-1.  A lot can happen between now and the end of the season, tho.  An impressive turnaround so far in any case!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 16, 2006, 02:03:43 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on October 16, 2006, 11:21:46 AM
Ron, If Sul Ross were to win out and beat HSU, do they have a shot at a Pool C?

Bill, I will answer your question from another board here.

I can see SRSU getting a Pool C bid if they win out and get help in the QOWI.

That means that UMHB and HSU need to finish with an in-region records above .666.  On the other end, ETBU and HPU need 2 more wins (both Miss Coll and LaColl) to finish at .333.  McMurry can finish with a win over TLU and loss to SRSU and finish at in-region >.333 regardless of the HSU game.  (The loss at  Menlo hurts the conference here.)  For SRSU to get maximum QOWI benefit from MissColl and LaColl, those teams needs to finish >0.333.  Finally, TLU is right on the edge finishing in-region .500.

Now there are multiple variations of this, but the higher the QOWI for SRSU, the better their chances.

Honestly, I hope that Coach Wright can get one more in-region game next year, and a 10-game schedule.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 16, 2006, 02:39:56 PM
Amazing that we are talking about SRU getting a playoff bid.  They still have a lot of football in front of them, but wow, what a turnaround.
Title: 2006 South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 16, 2006, 03:18:23 PM
Week #7 Comparison

* ranking will be based on current QOWI w/in each loss column
@ - indicates teams eligible for Pool B bids
( ) NCAA South Region Ranking - to be released w/in next week

AFCA rankings were updated 10/17/06

* D3 & AFCA rankings are not considered by the commitee during the selection process, they are only listed for informational purposes.


"0" SOUTH REGION LOSS TEAMS w/ (regional w/l) (overall w/l) QOWI

1.  WESLEY @                  (4-0) (6-0)     12.00      D3 #5       AFCA #5
2.  CNU                           (5-0) (5-1)     11.00      D3 #19     AFCA #22
3.  CARN. MELLON @        (5-0) (6-0)       9.80                                 

"1" SOUTH REGION LOSS TEAMS

1.   UMHB                        (5-1) (5-1)     12.00      D3 #6      AFCA #10
2.   HARDIN-SIMMONS      (4-1) (4-1)     10.67      D3 #8      AFCA #14
3.   DEPAUW                    (5-1) (5-1)     10.50             
4.   WASH & JEFF @          (4-1) (5-1)     10.40     
5.   DICKINSON                (5-1) (5-1)     10.17     
6.   WASH & LEE               (5-1) (5-1)      9.83                       
7.   TRINITY                     (5-1) (5-1)      9.33                      AFCA #21
8.   BRIDGEWATER            (5-1) (5-1)      9.17     D3 #21      AFCA #19
9.   SUL ROSS STATE         (3-1) (4-1)     9.00
10. URSINUS                    (3-1) (5-1)      8.00

"2" SOUTH REGION LOSS TEAMS

1.   HUNTINGDON @         (3-2) (4-3)     10.00
      THIEL @                    (3-2) (4-3)     10.00
3.   AVERETT                    (4-2) (4-2)      9.17
      MISS. COLLEGE          (4-2) (4-2)      9.17
5.   RHODES                     (4-2) (4-2)      8.67
      SALISBURY @             (1-2) (3-3)      8.67
7.   GUILFORD                  (4-2) (4-2)      8.50
      LOUISIANA COLL         (3-2) (3-2)     8.50
9.   THOMAS MORE @        (4-2) (4-2)      8.00
10. JOHNS HOPKINS          (2-2) (2-4)      7.75
11. CATHOLIC                   (2-2) (3-3)      7.50


* Once a team has more than 2 losses in region they will drop from consideration as the season progresses. Note: Pool A (automatic qualifiers) will throw "a wrench" into the number of spots available in the South Region.

Total spots available in the DIII Playoff Field = 32. 21 Pool A "automatic qualifiers"; 4 Pool B, and 7 Pool C qualifiers, nationwide.


South Region (Pool A) Berths (Conference Champions w/ Auto-bids)

American Southwest Conference -
Centennial Conference -
Old Dominion Athletic Conference -
Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference -
USA South Athletic Conference -

* conference champions to be updated once official    


Note: To take a look at  the nationwide list of Pool C contenders refer to the Pool C -- 2006 thread on the General Football Post Patterns board.
 


Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on October 16, 2006, 03:29:22 PM
Its that time of year again in the south region. Its almost Playoff season! Here is the 2006 edition of the South Region Playoff watch. I will update it as we go same as last year. Any corrections would be appreciated. Enjoy! ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 16, 2006, 04:47:13 PM
If the season ended today, would the Pool A teams for the South be UMHB, Dickinson, Washington & Lee, Trinity, and CNU or Averitt?  With the addition of Austin College, the SCA moved from B to an A?  I know there are a lot of games left, but I'm just trying to get a handle on the automatic bids.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on October 16, 2006, 04:56:52 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on October 16, 2006, 04:47:13 PM
If the season ended today, would the Pool A teams for the South be UMHB, Dickinson, Washington & Lee, Trinity, and CNU or Averitt?  With the addition of Austin College, the SCA moved from B to an A?  I know there are a lot of games left, but I'm just trying to get a handle on the automatic bids.

Still too many head to head matchups to make that call Bill. ASC looks like UMHB's to lose, Trinity is in the drivers seat in SCAC, Dickinson & Ursinus are the best bets in CC, CNU and Averett have yet to meet in the USAC, and W&L,Guilford,plus Bridgewater are all still alive in the ODAC. It only takes one injury or an upset or two to tip the applecart so it is too early to call conference winners.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 16, 2006, 06:11:50 PM
Thanks Llamaguy.  I realize there are still several head to head games that could change the automatic qualifier.  Just trying to figure out the Pool A conferences.  How many Pool B's are there in the South region?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on October 16, 2006, 06:57:21 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on October 16, 2006, 06:11:50 PM
Thanks Llamaguy.  I realize there are still several head to head games that could change the automatic qualifier.  Just trying to figure out the Pool A conferences.  How many Pool B's are there in the South region?

Well there are 4 spots nationwide and then any not getting those are then considered for one of the 7 Pool C spots. The Pool B's in contention in the South Region are all marked with an @ on the chart below. Wesley and W&J are good bets with either Whitworth or Linfield getting one or both of the others out of the West region. Rockford at 9-0 could throw a wrench into things and it will be interesting to see if Carnegie Mellon gets a Pool B if they go undefeated at  10-0. Carnegie Mellon's QOWI index will be lower than  a few other 1 and 2 loss Pool B contenders. Just another tough decision for the committee come November. ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 16, 2006, 07:12:18 PM
Thanks Llamaguy.  I really don't understand Pool B. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on October 16, 2006, 07:49:42 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on October 16, 2006, 07:12:18 PM
Thanks Llamaguy.  I really don't understand Pool B. 

excerpt from NCAA Championship Handbook:

Pool B is reserved for independent institutions and institutions that are members of conferences that do not receive automatic qualification (Pool A). The number of eligible institutions in Pool B is determined by subtracting the number of eligibile institutions  in Pool A from the total number of active Division III institutions sponsoring football.

The number of berths available for Pool B institutions is determined by dividing the number of institutions eligible in Pool B by the access ratio for Pool A.


So in essence Bill, Pool B holds 4 spots for teams without an automatic bid and gives them an equal chance to get into the playoffs, strictly from  a number of teams(without a conference affiliation or a conference without enough teams in thier conference to get an automatic bid) per number of playoff spots available.

Title: Me and Llama
Post by: Eh-You on October 17, 2006, 12:18:54 AM
After a rocky start, me and the Dali are officially buddies and I thank him for the hard work that must go into the Playoff Watch.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CNULifer on October 17, 2006, 12:34:49 AM
Hey Llama,

The player is my brother.  It was in a past post answering ron boegers earlier question.  Don't bring him up, the staff at CNU does not allow players to get on these boards.

Keep up with info.  They put him back on offense and he played against Greensboro.  Not much, but I'm not complaining.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on October 17, 2006, 03:55:34 AM
Quote from: CNULifer on October 17, 2006, 12:34:49 AM
Hey Llama,

The player is my brother.  It was in a past post answering ron boegers earlier question.  Don't bring him up, the staff at CNU does not allow players to get on these boards.

Keep up with info.  They put him back on offense and he played against Greensboro.  Not much, but I'm not complaining.

Fair enough! I hope that his senior season turns out to be a great one with a deep run into the playoffs! Not trying to bully anyone around just don't take too kindly to those who think I'm all BC all the time. Yes I want the Eagles to make the playoffs but if they don't get the job done on the field then I will be there cheering for another South Region team to carry the flag for the South! ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on October 17, 2006, 09:19:58 AM
Week #7 Comparison

* ranking will be based on current QOWI w/in each loss column
@ - indicates teams eligible for Pool B bids
( ) NCAA South Region Ranking - to be released w/in next week

AFCA rankings were updated 10/17/06

* D3 & AFCA rankings are not considered by the commitee during the selection process, they are only listed for informational purposes.


"0" SOUTH REGION LOSS TEAMS w/ (regional w/l) (overall w/l) QOWI

1.  WESLEY @                  (4-0) (6-0)     12.00      D3 #5       AFCA #5
2.  CNU                           (5-0) (5-1)     11.00      D3 #19     AFCA #22
3.  CARN. MELLON @        (5-0) (6-0)       9.80                                 

"1" SOUTH REGION LOSS TEAMS

1.   UMHB                        (5-1) (5-1)     12.00      D3 #6      AFCA #10
2.   HARDIN-SIMMONS      (4-1) (4-1)     10.67      D3 #8      AFCA #14
3.   DEPAUW                    (5-1) (5-1)     10.50             
4.   WASH & JEFF @          (4-1) (5-1)     10.40     
5.   DICKINSON                (5-1) (5-1)     10.17     
6.   WASH & LEE               (5-1) (5-1)      9.83                       
7.   TRINITY                     (5-1) (5-1)      9.33                      AFCA #21
8.   BRIDGEWATER            (5-1) (5-1)      9.17     D3 #21      AFCA #19
9.   SUL ROSS STATE         (3-1) (4-1)     9.00
10. URSINUS                    (3-1) (5-1)      8.00

"2" SOUTH REGION LOSS TEAMS

1.   HUNTINGDON @         (3-2) (4-3)     10.00
      THIEL @                    (3-2) (4-3)     10.00
3.   AVERETT                    (4-2) (4-2)      9.17
      MISS. COLLEGE          (4-2) (4-2)      9.17
5.   RHODES                     (4-2) (4-2)      8.67
      SALISBURY @             (1-2) (3-3)      8.67
7.   GUILFORD                  (4-2) (4-2)      8.50
      LOUISIANA COLL         (3-2) (3-2)     8.50
9.   THOMAS MORE @        (4-2) (4-2)      8.00
10. JOHNS HOPKINS          (2-2) (2-4)      7.75
11. CATHOLIC                   (2-2) (3-3)      7.50


* Once a team has more than 2 losses in region they will drop from consideration as the season progresses. Note: Pool A (automatic qualifiers) will throw "a wrench" into the number of spots available in the South Region.

Total spots available in the DIII Playoff Field = 32. 21 Pool A "automatic qualifiers"; 4 Pool B, and 7 Pool C qualifiers, nationwide.


South Region (Pool A) Berths (Conference Champions w/ Auto-bids)

American Southwest Conference -
Centennial Conference -
Old Dominion Athletic Conference -
Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference -
USA South Athletic Conference -

* conference champions to be updated once official    


Note: To take a look at  the nationwide list of Pool C contenders refer to the Pool C -- 2006 thread on the General Football Post Patterns board.
   

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on October 17, 2006, 11:22:59 AM
So, if the NCAA regional rankings were released this week, given what Llamaguy has provided, would this be the south's top 10?


SchoolIn-Region, Overall
1.Wesley
4-0, 6-0
2.Christopher Newport
5-0, 5-1
3.Mary Hardin-Baylor
5-1, 5-1
4.Carnegie Mellon
5-0, 6-0
5.Hardin-Simmons
4-1, 4-1
6.Washington & Jefferson
4-1, 5-1
7.Trinity (Texas)
5-1, 5-1
8.DePauw
5-1, 5-1
9.Dickinson
5-1, 5-1
10.Washington & Lee
5-1, 5-1

It seems Bridgewater (Va.) would be the next one in.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on October 17, 2006, 11:58:45 AM
Looks about right but remember they don't look at QOWI that closely so the 7-11 spots could be shifted quite a bit.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Crowdmaker on October 17, 2006, 01:46:47 PM
I could be wrong, as I'm rather new to these boards....but how does Dickinson losing to Hobart (not a south region team) give them a loss in the south region?  Thanks.

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: billybaroo on October 17, 2006, 01:47:12 PM
Quote from: Matt Barnhart (kid) on October 17, 2006, 11:22:59 AM
So, if the NCAA regional rankings were released this week, given what Llamaguy has provided, would this be the south's top 10?


SchoolIn-Region, Overall
1.Wesley
4-0, 6-0
2.Christopher Newport
5-0, 5-1
3.Mary Hardin-Baylor
5-1, 5-1
4.Carnegie Mellon
5-0, 6-0
5.Hardin-Simmons
4-1, 4-1
6.Washington & Jefferson
4-1, 5-1
7.Trinity (Texas)
5-1, 5-1
8.DePauw
5-1, 5-1
9.Dickinson
5-1, 5-1
10.Washington & Lee
5-1, 5-1

It seems Bridgewater (Va.) would be the next one in.


So if that holds true the rest of the year what would the play-off matchups be. And I know nobody can tell what the NCAA will do besides the cheapest route possible but what are some ideas. Could there be a rematch between UMHB and CNU cause I would like to see that. Or will the Texas teams be forced to eliminate each other like they always do.

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 17, 2006, 01:49:31 PM
Quote from: Crowdmaker on October 17, 2006, 01:46:47 PM
I could be wrong, as I'm rather new to these boards....but how does Dickinson losing to Hobart (not a south region team) give them a loss in the south region?  Thanks.



Last summer, the NCAA adopted a change for all sports that games inside the Geographic Membership Region (Region #2 is New York and Pennsylvania) would be considered "in-region".
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on October 17, 2006, 02:13:38 PM
Billybaroo,
Really its too early to tell. I can tell you there will be a Texas-subbracket because it always saves the NCAA money. If Depauw makes it in then it will make it even easier to have the first two rounds in Texas. UMHB vs. DePauw & HSU vs. Trinity then the winners play the next week.
There are some early predictions on the General Football Board, "Way too early Guesses" for Playoff Regions Thread. Check it out. ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Crowdmaker on October 17, 2006, 02:15:54 PM
Thanks for clearing that up for me Ralph.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: DPU3619 on October 20, 2006, 12:20:33 AM
Quote from: Llamaguy on October 17, 2006, 02:13:38 PM
If Depauw makes it in then it will make it even easier to have the first two rounds in Texas. UMHB vs. DePauw & HSU vs. Trinity then the winners play the next week.

I know it's early, but that scares the proverbial heeby-jeebies out of me.  All 5 yds/game they're giving up on the ground.  Alas, still very very early to tell.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Rikki_Tikki_Tavi on October 22, 2006, 10:06:43 AM
I know its WAAAAAAAAAY early, but a CNU/WLU playoff game sounds like a great match to me. Assuming they both win out, they are both 9-1 and undefeated in the conference. Who would get the home game? My bet is on the Captains because of their schedule and win over UMHB, but I could be wrong. Id like to hear the ODAC/WLU fans input on this.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ryan Tipps on October 22, 2006, 10:29:38 AM
Quote from: Rikki_Tikki_Tavi on October 22, 2006, 10:06:43 AM
I know its WAAAAAAAAAY early, but a CNU/WLU playoff game sounds like a great match to me. Assuming they both win out, they are both 9-1 and undefeated in the conference. Who would get the home game? My bet is on the Captains because of their schedule and win over UMHB, but I could be wrong. Id like to hear the ODAC/WLU fans input on this.

I don't know if the caliber of the UMHB win would be the biggest factor, but rather that CNU would be undefeated in region while W&L would have one in-region loss. That right there probably would give CNU the home game in that scenario.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on October 22, 2006, 10:47:01 AM
Week #8 Comparison

* ranking will be based on current QOWI w/in each loss column
@ - indicates teams eligible for Pool B bids
( ) NCAA South Region Ranking for Week of 10/24/06

AFCA rankings will be updated 10/24/06

* D3 & AFCA rankings are not considered by the commitee during the selection process, they are only listed for informational purposes.

"0" SOUTH REGION LOSS TEAMS w/ (regional w/l) (overall w/l) QOWI

1.  WESLEY @ (#1)             (4-0) (7-0)     12.00      D3 #5      AFCA #5
2.  CNU (#2)                      (6-0) (6-1)     10.50      D3 #18    AFCA #20
3.  CARN. MELLON @ (#5)   (6-0) (7-0)       9.50                                 

"1" SOUTH REGION LOSS TEAMS

1.   UMHB (#3)                   (6-1) (6-1)     12.00      D3 #6      AFCA #9
2.   HARDIN-SIMMONS (#6)  (5-1) (5-1)     10.14      D3 #8      AFCA #13
3.   DICKINSON (#7)           (6-1) (6-1)      9.86
      TRINITY (#4)                (6-1) (6-1)      9.86      D3 #24    AFCA #19
5.   WASH & JEFF @ (#8)     (5-1) (6-1)      9.33     
6.   SUL ROSS STATE           (4-1) (5-1)      9.20   
7.   WASH & LEE (#9)          (6-1) (6-1)      8.71                                             

"2" SOUTH REGION LOSS TEAMS

1.   DEPAUW                    (5-2) (5-2)       9.71
2.   AVERETT (#10)           (5-2) (5-2)       9.00
3.   SALISBURY @             (1-2) (3-4)       8.67
4.   RHODES                     (4-2) (5-2)       8.33
5.   THOMAS MORE @        (5-2) (5-2)       8.29
6.   BRIDGEWATER            (5-2) (5-2)       8.14
7.   JOHNS HOPKINS          (3-2) (3-4)       7.80
8.   URSINUS                    (3-2) (5-2)       7.40


* Once a team has more than 2 losses in region they will drop from consideration as the season progresses. Note: Pool A (automatic qualifiers) will throw "a wrench" into the number of spots available in the South Region.

Total spots available in the DIII Playoff Field = 32. 21 Pool A "automatic qualifiers"; 4 Pool B, and 7 Pool C qualifiers, nationwide.


South Region (Pool A) Berths
(Conference Champions w/ Auto-bids)

American Southwest Conference -
Centennial Conference -
Old Dominion Athletic Conference -
Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference -
USA South Athletic Conference -

* conference champions to be updated once official      


Note: To take a look at  the nationwide list of Pool C contenders refer to the Pool C -- 2006 thread on the General Football Post Patterns board.   


 



Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on October 22, 2006, 11:05:01 AM
Right-on Legacy! Thats exactly why CNU would host.

Some interesting Playoff tidbits after this week.

If the conference leaders win their respective conferences:
USAC-CNU, ASC-UMHB, ODAC-W&L, SCAC-Trinity, CC-Dikinson, and with 3 teams being Pool B, that leaves only 2 teams in the South region in Pool C with one loss. Those two schools play each other leaving one Pool C contender with one loss in the weeks to come.
Point being, Pool B's will take Pool C spots this year or 2 regional loss teams may slip in, but I doubt it would be from the South Region unless its HSU.
Remember, there doesn't have to be 8 teams out of the South Region, only 5 automatics and the rest compete with the entire nation for the other 11 spots, 4 Pool B, & 7 Pool C.  I like the teams we have to make a run at the Stagg Bowl!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: kickerdad on October 25, 2006, 01:36:38 PM
I guess everybody is writting off Averett even though they haven't even taken the field yet against CNU. I hope everyone who has penciled CNU
in as the USAC rep. doesn't have to eat any crow. I know we are the
underdogs and even a lose to CNU won't make this season a bad one.

I just hope Averett is able to show the conference and everyone else
what they really have (18 or 19 Seniors and about the same number in
1st, 2nd and Honorable mention All Conference players from last year) and they only need to get all the "T" crossed and I's Dotted at the same time. As I mentioned on one of the other post earlier, if Averett ever hits full
throttle this year, someone better watch out. I hope Averett and CNU both
go into the Nov 4th game undefeated in the Conference.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on October 25, 2006, 01:44:12 PM
Quote from: kickerdad on October 25, 2006, 01:36:38 PM
I guess everybody is writting off Averett even though they haven't even taken the field yet against CNU. I hope everyone who has penciled CNU
in as the USAC rep. doesn't have to eat any crow. I know we are the
underdogs and even a lose to CNU won't make this season a bad one.

I just hope Averett is able to show the conference and everyone else
what they really have (18 or 19 Seniors and about the same number in
1st, 2nd and Honorable mention All Conference players from last year) and they only need to get all the "T" crossed and I's Dotted at the same time. As I mentioned on one of the other post earlier, if Averett ever hits full
throttle this year, someone better watch out. I hope Averett and CNU both
go into the Nov 4th game undefeated in the Conference.

No write off here! Actually it would be better for the USAC if Averett does beat CNU and two USAC teams make the playoffs. I doubt CNU85 likes that logic though! :o
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 25, 2006, 05:22:20 PM
Llamaguy, if Averett beats CNU, would CNU still get a Pool C? 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on October 25, 2006, 09:40:00 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on October 25, 2006, 05:22:20 PM
Llamaguy, if Averett beats CNU, would CNU still get a Pool C? 

Absolutely! They would be right with a one loss in region HSU team. Their QOWI would still be @ 10.00 which is I'm sure in the top 5 of the Pool C candidates nationwide. The only way CNU doesn't get in is to lose 2 of their final games. A good position to be in for sure.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Eh-You on October 25, 2006, 10:33:06 PM
[[/quote]

Absolutely! They would be right with a one loss in region HSU team. Their QOWI would still be @ 10.00 which is I'm sure in the top 5 of the Pool C candidates nationwide. The only way CNU doesn't get in is to lose 2 of their final games. A good position to be in for sure.
[/quote]

Seems like a no brainer to me - CNU should just let Averett win!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: K-Mack on October 28, 2006, 11:21:33 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on October 25, 2006, 05:22:20 PM
Llamaguy, if Averett beats CNU, would CNU still get a Pool C? 

Not after today. CNU is Pool A or bust at this point, I believe.

The South Region is not looking very strong anymore beyond the top teams, although we know CNU can stick with UMHB.

A rough guess:

Dickinson at Wesley
W&L/E&H/Guilford at CNU/Averett
Carnegie Mellon at UMHB
Hardin-Simmons at Trinity (Texas)

or

Dickinson at Wesley
CNU/Averett at Carnegie Mellon
W&L/E&H/Guilford at UMHB
Hardin-Simmons at Trinity
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Toby Taff on October 28, 2006, 11:23:48 PM
K Mack,

Did you get to take a tour of campus today?  If so What'd you think?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 28, 2006, 11:32:32 PM
Keith, I'm not sure the South Region was ever really that strong outside of the top three, maybe four teams.   Still stronger than the East, tho'.  ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 28, 2006, 11:47:38 PM
Quote from: K-Mack on October 28, 2006, 11:21:33 PM
The South Region is not looking very strong anymore beyond the top teams, although we know CNU can stick with UMHB.

Well, Keith, since there's no smiley here, don't you think that the two teams' relative performance since their matchup in week 2 proves that CNU basically was lucky to catch UMHB flatfooted?  I mean, just look at today's results ... UMHB keeps the #2 team's offense out of the end zone all day, while CNU gives up 46 to a .500 team that's going nowhere.   

You've been on the NU bandwagon all year based on that performance in Week 2.  They've done nothing to impress since (or before).  I'll take two loss UMHB over two loss CNU in a walk any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 29, 2006, 07:59:59 AM
It seems to me that each year all of the regions aren't really that strong after the top 2 or 3 teams.  Every year there are a lot of lopsided scores.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 29, 2006, 08:00:48 AM
Is it possible that HSU will be ranked ahead of UMHB?  1 loss vs 2.  How does head to head figure in this?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on October 29, 2006, 02:00:50 PM
Week #9 Comparison

* ranking will be based on current QOWI w/in each loss column

@ - indicates teams eligible for Pool B bids
( ) NCAA South Region Ranking for Week of 11/01/06

AFCA rankings  updated 10/31/06

* D3 & AFCA rankings are not considered by the commitee during the selection process, they are only listed for informational purposes.

"0" SOUTH REGION LOSS TEAMS w/ (regional w/l) (overall w/l) QOWI

1.  WESLEY @ (#1)             (5-0) (8-0)     11.40      D3 #4      AFCA #4
2.  CARN. MELLON @ (#5)    (7-0) (8-0)       9.50                                   

"1" SOUTH REGION LOSS TEAMS

1.   HARDIN-SIMMONS (#4)  (6-1) (6-1)     11.14     D3 #7      AFCA #11
2.   TRINITY (#2)                (7-1) (7-1)    10.38     D3 #23     AFCA #17
3.   DICKINSON (#6)            (7-1) (7-1)      9.86
4.   CNU (#8)                      (6-1) (6-2)      9.43           
      WASH & JEFF @ (#7)      (6-1) (7-1)      9.43    D3 #25   AFCA #25                                           

"2" SOUTH REGION LOSS TEAMS

1.   UMHB (#3)                  (6-2) (6-2)     11.00       D3 #6     AFCA #14
2.   SUL ROSS STATE          (4-2) (5-2)       9.50
3.   AVERETT (#9)             (6-2) (6-2)       9.00
      WASH & LEE (#10)       (6-2) (6-2)       9.00
5.   BRIDGEWATER             (6-2) (6-2)       8.63
6.   URSINUS                     (4-2) (6-2)       7.83


* Once a team has more than 2 losses in region they will drop from consideration as the season progresses. Note: Pool A (automatic qualifiers) will throw "a wrench" into the number of spots available in the South Region.

Total spots available in the DIII Playoff Field = 32. 21 Pool A "automatic qualifiers"; 4 Pool B, and 7 Pool C qualifiers, nationwide.


South Region (Pool A) Berths (Conference Champions w/ Auto-bids)

American Southwest Conference - UMHB
Centennial Conference - Dickinson
Old Dominion Athletic Conference - Washington & Lee
Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference -
USA South Athletic Conference -

* conference champions to be updated once official      


Note: To take a look at  the nationwide list of Pool C contenders refer to the Pool C -- 2006 thread on the General Football Post Patterns board.   


Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 29, 2006, 06:29:26 PM
Llamaguy,  how do you see HSU and UMHB being seeded?  QOWI is not the only criteria, correct?  Wesley will be the #1 seed unless there is a huge upset.  HSU and UMHB 2nd and 3rd.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on October 29, 2006, 07:39:38 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on October 29, 2006, 06:29:26 PM
Llamaguy,  how do you see HSU and UMHB being seeded?  QOWI is not the only criteria, correct?  Wesley will be the #1 seed unless there is a huge upset.  HSU and UMHB 2nd and 3rd.

Right now I would say it would be a toss up between UMHB,HSU, and Trinity if they can beat Millsaps. UMHB has 2 in-region losses to good teams but beat HSU head-to-head. HSU has a win against Linfield who may also be in the playoffs. I would say it could go either way. Remember though that seedings don't mean a lot other than probable home field in the second round. It will be interesting to see which way the committee goes. ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 29, 2006, 08:13:49 PM
It's fun to suppose about how the teams will be seeded, but it still comes down to winning your games.  I'm looking forward to the playoffs.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 29, 2006, 10:32:41 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on October 29, 2006, 08:13:49 PM
It's fun to suppose about how the teams will be seeded, but it still comes down to winning your games.  I'm looking forward to the playoffs.

Bill, I am still an advocate of head-to-head and common opponents.

TLU beat Trinity and lost to UMHB.  They play HSU this week.

As for QOWI, the value of the (7-3) loss by UMHB to UWW was worth 6 QOWI points.
The 49-17 HSU win over UW-SP is worth 10 points, but only if they win one of their next 2 games.  That value may fluctuate.

As for UMHB staying #6, what would you expect if #2 beat #6 by 4 points?  I agree with the props you sent their way!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 30, 2006, 07:40:44 AM
Ralph, so do you see UMHB and HSU being the 2nd and 3rd seeds?  That order?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on October 30, 2006, 12:00:38 PM
I saw the Fan Poll, now how would you seed the teams for the south playoffs?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 30, 2006, 04:53:24 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on October 30, 2006, 07:40:44 AM
Ralph, so do you see UMHB and HSU being the 2nd and 3rd seeds?  That order?

I see Trinity going to HSU (assuming that HSU beats TLU and McMurry)
I see someone flown into UMHB.

If top seeds prevail, then HSU meets in Belton (because of head-to-head).

I wonder if Wesley is kept in the South Region, or moved to the East as the #1 seed.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on October 30, 2006, 05:53:51 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 30, 2006, 04:53:24 PM

I wonder if Wesley is kept in the South Region, or moved to the East as the #1 seed.

Only if Hobart or Wilkes loses a game. Hobart is undefeated with a better QOWI than Wesley and Wilkes is less than a quarter point behind Wesley at this point.

Hobart plays two > .500 teams to finish so if they win out they will be the #1 seed in the East. IMO
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: exmajor on October 30, 2006, 08:29:24 PM
Ralph,

Trinity still has to beat Millsaps in two weeks to make it in.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 30, 2006, 08:58:36 PM
Quote from: exmajor on October 30, 2006, 08:29:24 PM
Ralph,

Trinity still has to beat Millsaps in two weeks to make it in.

Sorry, exmajor!  Millsaps' winning the SCAC would throw the committee another plane flight!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 01, 2006, 04:09:55 PM
South Regional Rankings are up!


1. Wesley 5-0 8-0
2. Trinity (Texas) 7-1 7-1
3. Mary Hardin-Baylor 6-2 6-2
4. Hardin-Simmons 6-1 6-1
5. Carnegie Mellon 7-0 8-0
6. Dickinson 7-1 7-1
7. Washington and Jefferson 6-1 7-1
8. Christopher Newport 6-1 6-2
9. Averett 6-2 6-2
10. Washington and Lee 6-2 6-2
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 01, 2006, 04:11:09 PM
OKAY, playoff gurus, if everything works out, isn't this one team too many?

What happens?

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 01, 2006, 04:11:58 PM
Bob, either Christopher Newport or Averett will eliminate the other this weekend.

I am curious, however, to know why Trinity keeps on getting mad love--especially given that HSU and UMHB are ahead of them in both the AFCA and the d3football.com polls!

Alas, it seems as if fate will keep HSU from hosting a playoff game--assuming they win out and get a Pool C bid.  :(
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 01, 2006, 04:13:50 PM
I know that.

There's still 9 left on the board for 8-team bracket....
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 01, 2006, 04:15:15 PM
Interesting that W&L went from No. 9 to No. 10 after their loss to Bridgewater.

I'd think BC would be No. 10.  Hmph.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 01, 2006, 04:16:06 PM
Based on the rankings today, would Trinity host HSU and who would play UMHB.  I would then assume that if Trinity won, the next game would be there.  HSU and UMHB win, they play a rematch in Belton?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 01, 2006, 04:16:10 PM
Somebody gets shipped out of region--I personally think Wesley is the easiest to do that to, but that conversation has taken place in the General Football board, and the real gurus seem to think I'm nuts for suggesting it.  ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 01, 2006, 04:37:28 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on November 01, 2006, 04:11:58 PM
I am curious, however, to know why Trinity keeps on getting mad love--especially given that HSU and UMHB are ahead of them in both the AFCA and the d3football.com polls!


Polls are irrelevant in the regional rankings as you know, Josh.

IMO Trinity is above UMHB because UMHB has two losses.  Good losses, but L's nonetheless.   7-1 > 6-2 and that is supposedly the primary criterion.

The real question is why is Trinity above HSU when HSU has a better QoWI?   Only thing I can think of is that the pencilnecks who put this together say 7-1 > 6-1 and ignore the fact that HSU (a) should be 7-1 and (b) can't figure out that a loss to TLU should hurt more than a loss to UMHB.  Trinity's QoWI should go down after this week's game against sub-.333 Sewanee.   

Of course, then you get into this:  if W-L is the primary criteria, why is CMU where they are?  I think they don't deserve to be any higher than that but again if you knock them for playing a crappy schedule then you should also knock Trinity for losing to a .500 TLU team. 

OK, here come the karma hits from the SCAC faithful. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 01, 2006, 04:39:27 PM
Ron, great points.  What do you see as the key games these last 2 weeks in the South region?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 01, 2006, 04:44:08 PM
It should be noted that CMU stayed in the same spot this week, but flip-flopped with HSU.  HSU jumps two spots as a result of CNU's loss.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 01, 2006, 04:59:50 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on November 01, 2006, 04:39:27 PM
Ron, great points.  What do you see as the key games these last 2 weeks in the South region?

What games aren't key?  For all the players we are worried about, every game is important.  I would like to see Wesley lose but I doubt it's going to happen.     With Trinity, UMHB, and HSU 2-3-4 all that may change will be the order, and even that looks ?able.  Games remaining and likely records of teams at end of year assuming all W's by the contenders:

Trinity:  vs Sewanee (2-8), @Millsaps (6-4)
HSU:  @TLU (6-4), vs. McMurry (3-7)
UMHB:  @ETBU (3-7), vs. HPU (5-5)

Not a lot there to move the QoWIs around.  What HSU gains this week it will lose against McM.   Of course if anyone loses a game, all bets are off. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Eh-You on November 01, 2006, 05:37:06 PM
Quote from: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 01, 2006, 04:15:15 PM
Interesting that W&L went from No. 9 to No. 10 after their loss to Bridgewater.

I'd think BC would be No. 10.  Hmph.

I agree Kid. Seems not to have much (any) logic behind it. And since we're Hmphing about the rankings - I would normally be spouting off about AU being 9 and CNU being 8 but that will be settled this weekend so I won't waste my keystrokes on it.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: K-Mack on November 02, 2006, 12:22:25 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 30, 2006, 04:53:24 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on October 30, 2006, 07:40:44 AM
Ralph, so do you see UMHB and HSU being the 2nd and 3rd seeds?  That order?

I see Trinity going to HSU (assuming that HSU beats TLU and McMurry)
I see someone flown into UMHB.

If top seeds prevail, then HSU meets in Belton (because of head-to-head).

I wonder if Wesley is kept in the South Region, or moved to the East as the #1 seed.

I agree with the Trinity on the road part; a lot of people have Trinity at home, but the loss to TLU would mean they go to either Hardin-Simmons (if they lose to TLU, there will be no playoffs for them) or UMHB, based on the common opponent criteria.

I also think there are three legit No. 1s in the East, and Wilkes is the least likely of them to lose a game, although King's could be tough. No need to move Wesley there, the South is going to be the region needing all of its teams, and if you move someone out, it might be Carnegie Mellon or W&J to the North. I can see scenarios where anywhere from seven to nine East teams get in, and in one of them an East has to move to the South.

Certainly Bridgewater beat W&L head-to-head, but it also lost to Guilford and Emory & Henry ... until W&L's final results come in, I'm sure they grade out ahead of Bridgewater as a one-loss team, which is what it is.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: K-Mack on November 02, 2006, 12:24:54 AM
Quote from: Llamaguy on October 30, 2006, 05:53:51 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 30, 2006, 04:53:24 PM

I wonder if Wesley is kept in the South Region, or moved to the East as the #1 seed.

Only if Hobart or Wilkes loses a game. Hobart is undefeated with a better QOWI than Wesley and Wilkes is less than a quarter point behind Wesley at this point.

Hobart plays two > .500 teams to finish so if they win out they will be the #1 seed in the East. IMO

Couldn't Cortland get the 1 seed with wins over Rowan and Ithaca? Granted, neither of those would be a playoff team with another loss, but they may be 9 and 10 in the final regional ranking, which could give Cortland an edge in "wins over regionally ranked opponents" criteria.

So much depends on what happens with the big Empire 8, NJAC and LL clashes.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: exmajor on November 02, 2006, 10:02:49 AM
Ron,

I would think you of all people would not count your chickens before they hatch.  Sure, history says Trinity will make the playoffs, but this is a first time since '96 I think that the conference will come down to the final week.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 02, 2006, 10:25:36 AM
Quote from: exmajor on November 02, 2006, 10:02:49 AM
Ron,

I would think you of all people would not count your chickens before they hatch.  Sure, history says Trinity will make the playoffs, but this is a first time since '96 I think that the conference will come down to the final week.

I answered the question asked "assuming all wins by the [top 3 Texas] contenders" and further stated "if anyone loses, all bets are off."   I have stated several times in other places that the SCAC championship comes down to the last week.  I had five minutes between meetings yesterday to make that post.

If you want to make the case for the Majors, feel free.  I'm just a TU alumnus these days and don't have to be "fair and balanced" anymore.     ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 02, 2006, 10:40:34 AM
At this time, I think it is a safe bet in sticking with Trinity.  You don't win 13 or 14 or however many conference championships in a row by accident.  Ron has been very fair in his assesment of Trinity and Millsaps.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 02, 2006, 12:26:28 PM
Having seen both teams play this year, I'd say that Trinity has the better defense, Millsaps the better offense.  That's no news flash to anyone, but does kinda sum up "keys to the game" for both teams.   :-\
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: centennialfan15 on November 02, 2006, 02:48:41 PM
So if the regional rankings hold true the rest of the season Dickinson would play at CMU?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 02, 2006, 02:50:48 PM
No, the pairings are rarely 1-8, 2-7, etcetera.  Mileage plays heavily into it, especially in the South and West regions. 

And, given that CMU and W&J are all of about 20 miles apart, I betcha those two schools play each other, should they both win out the rest of the way.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Snakehandler on November 02, 2006, 02:56:17 PM
I'll give it a shot:

Dickinson @
Wesley
USAC Winner @
W&J


Trinity @
Hardin Simmons
ODAC Winner @
UMHB
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 02, 2006, 03:08:43 PM
I think that's a plausible bracket, snakehandler--but would love to hear the rationale behind it, nonetheless.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: exmajor on November 02, 2006, 03:11:47 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on November 02, 2006, 10:40:34 AM
At this time, I think it is a safe bet in sticking with Trinity.  You don't win 13 or 14 or however many conference championships in a row by accident.  Ron has been very fair in his assesment of Trinity and Millsaps.

No doubt he has been fair, always is, did not mean malice in the previous post.  I realize the odds are in Trinity's favor and a 5-3 team at this point, despite the last few weeks, does not deserve alot of playoff talk.  I am actually going to hold my tongue about Millsaps and playoffs until after the game in two weeks.  The possibilities are exciting though!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 02, 2006, 03:15:03 PM
snakehandler,

What do you do with the Tartans of Carnegie-Mellon University?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Snakehandler on November 02, 2006, 03:17:09 PM
They may end up with two losses, Bob.  And thus sitting home. If they make the playoffs, I can see them going to the East, as a 5 or 6 seed.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 02, 2006, 03:22:09 PM
Quote from: Snakehandler on November 02, 2006, 03:17:09 PM
They may end up with two losses, Bob.  And thus sitting home. If they make the playoffs, I can see them going to the East, as a 5 or 6 seed.

TWO?  Wow, that won't sit well with some around the boards....
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Snakehandler on November 02, 2006, 03:22:46 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on November 02, 2006, 03:08:43 PM
I think that's a plausible bracket, snakehandler--but would love to hear the rationale behind it, nonetheless.

What would you like to know? I'm shippinging the Melons to the East with 1 loss. They won't beat Theil and I'm not convinced they'll get by Bethany. Two losses and they're done.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 02, 2006, 06:09:50 PM
Quote from: Snakehandler on November 02, 2006, 02:56:17 PM
I'll give it a shot:

Dickinson @
Wesley
USAC Winner @
W&J


Trinity @
Hardin Simmons
ODAC Winner @
UMHB

  Dickerson is actually closer to Wesley than Averett(Wesley already beat them earlier this year) and may be even closer than CNU I'll have to check milage Dickerson. I think they may ship the USAS champ to Texas   
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 04, 2006, 05:08:12 PM
Averett's out of the playoff hunt, now 0-3 against decent teams after losing 41-31 to CNU today (http://www.cnusports.com/football/livestats/xlive.htm).    Well, OK they are out if CNU beats Ferrum next week. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BDTartan on November 04, 2006, 10:32:44 PM
Well snakehandler, are you convinced now?  A 44-6 drubbing of Bethany oughta change your mind about the Tartans.  I'm not saying anything about the Thiel game as I remember last year's game when the teams fortunes were flip-flopped with Thiel sitting at 9-0 and CMU at 5-4 and Thiel won a GREAT game 50-48 in 3 OT's.  You are also the first person to have them going to the East.  I have seen them in the North, but not the East.  I agree with Josh, if CMU and W&J win out, why not keep em right in the South and let em play each other right off the bat.  A former PAC team(CMU) playing a current PAC team sounds like a great match-up to me.  It would just be a coin toss as to where its played.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 04, 2006, 10:34:27 PM
Bethany was also drubbed by Thiel and Westminster (Pa.). That doesn't really show anything in and of itself.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BDTartan on November 04, 2006, 10:40:21 PM
Pat, is it just me or do you seem to follow me around and critique my posts??  All I was doing was pointing this out to snakehandler who said he wasn't convinced CMU would get by Bethany.  I was just telling him that they did more than get by.  I am well aware of what Thiel did to Bethany.  But its also funny that Thiel needed OT to beat Thomas Moore and Bethany came back and beat Thomas Moore so that doesn't really show anything in and of itself.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 04, 2006, 10:42:54 PM
BD:

I've made 14,000 posts. I probably post after a lot of people to get numbers like that, don't you think?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: pg04 on November 04, 2006, 10:44:47 PM
Quote from: BDTartan on November 04, 2006, 10:40:21 PM
Pat, is it just me or do you seem to follow me around and critique my posts??  All I was doing was pointing this out to snakehandler who said he wasn't convinced CMU would get by Bethany.  I was just telling him that they did more than get by.  I am well aware of what Thiel did to Bethany.  But its also funny that Thiel needed OT to beat Thomas Moore and Bethany came back and beat Thomas Moore so that doesn't really show anything in and of itself.

Or maybe is it that he just disagrees with what you say?  This is a discussion, after all. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BDTartan on November 04, 2006, 10:51:20 PM
First of all portgrad, what is there to disagree with????  I never said it was an accomplishment to drub Bethany.  Second of all, it had everything to do with what snakehandler said.  Once again, I was just pointing it out to snakehandle because he wasn't "convinced they'll get by Bethany".

Lastly, Pat has jumped all over me as of late and I didn't think that my post deserved his retort.  Pat, I don't care what you say, or what you think of me, I've told you this before but give me a break man.  I don't think there was any reason to say what you said.  And you can post 14,000 more times and it won't change a thing will it?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 04, 2006, 10:54:07 PM
Given the South has nine potential playoff teams this year, what happens in next week's games between Ithaca/Cortland St., Bethel/St. John's and Trinity/Millsaps will not only determine two conference championships and a Pool C bid possibility, but go a long way toward determining who's at home and who's on the road for the first round.

A Cortland St. loss, for example, probably gets Dickinson shipped to the East region, as the Dragons would also lose out on a Pool C berth.  This scenario probably keeps the Texas sub-bracket intact, barring a Millsaps upset of Trinity.

If Cortland St. wins, however, either HSU or UMHB could get shipped to the West region--especially if St. John's beats Bethel to win the AQ spot from the MIAC (Bethel is basically out of Pool C consideration, barring a major miracle).  If Millsaps beats Trinity, however, HSU and UMHB could either play each other or each host a first round game (one hosting a fly-in and the other hosting Millsaps).  It's hard for me to imagine Trinity winning next weekend and not hosting a first round playoff game, though.

It will be fun to see what happens.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: pg04 on November 04, 2006, 10:54:35 PM
Quote from: BDTartan on November 04, 2006, 10:51:20 PM
First of all portgrad, what is there to disagree with????  I never said it was an accomplishment to drub Bethany.  Second of all, it had everything to do with what snakehandler said.  Once again, I was just pointing it out to snakehandle because he wasn't "convinced they'll get by Bethany".

Lastly, Pat has jumped all over me as of late and I didn't think that my post deserved his retort.  Pat, I don't care what you say, or what you think of me, I've told you this before but give me a break man.  I don't think there was any reason to say what you said.  And you can post 14,000 more times and it won't change a thing will it?

You stated that the drubbing of bethany should change the mind of Snakehandler, maybe Pat didn't think such a win was worthy of changing the opinion.  That's all....I'm not sure why I said anything because this is the second time I've gotten in the middle of you two somehow... lol
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BDTartan on November 04, 2006, 11:00:34 PM
Jeez ow Pete, portgrad, if snakehandler wasn't convinced they would get by Bethany and then CMU beats them 44-6, why would that not change his mind??  As I said, the Thiel game is a whole 'nother story, but I think I would change my mind about a team if I wasn't "convinced" they would get by somebody and they turn around and beat that somebody by 38 points.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 04, 2006, 11:05:23 PM
I am curious as to Carnegie Mellon's playoff chances, should they lose to Thiel on Saturday next.  I'm guessing--and thinking out loud here--because there are four Pool B spots and Linfield lost today, CMU will likely get the last Pool B spot (Behind Wesley, Whitworth and W&J) regardless of the outcome of the game.

Could this actually be sound reasoning?   ???
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BDTartan on November 04, 2006, 11:09:46 PM
I couldn't tell ya Josh since my reasoning isn't sound enough for some folks around here.  But I wonder, how are the pool b's handed out?  What process do they use?  I just wonder how CMU gets the "last" bid regardless of the Thiel game's outcome when they are ranked ahead of W&J in the regional rankings, but W&J are just about one spot ahead of them in every other poll.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 04, 2006, 11:15:15 PM
Drop the chip from your shoulder, BDT. Not everyone is out to get you. I talk to a lot of people, don't take it personally. Sheesh.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: pg04 on November 04, 2006, 11:16:47 PM
There are 5 teams in Contention for Pool B, of the 5, 4 will get a bid...  CMU, Wesley, W&J, Whitworth.  Linfield is the 5th.... Wesley W&J and Whitworth are locks.  If CMU were to lose, it would come down to them and Linfield.  Linfield has now 2 losses in-region...

Essentially we would have a 1-loss CMU vs. a 2-loss Linfield... That would be a close decision.  
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 04, 2006, 11:19:20 PM
That's what I'm wondering, too, portgrad.  Linfield's two losses would be to (likely) playoff teams, but two losses are still two losses........
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BDTartan on November 04, 2006, 11:23:42 PM
No Pat, you've been the only one on my case, but since I don't want to wake any slumbering gods I'll listen to you.  For future reference, that's not a chip my friend.  You will know when I have a chip on my shoulder.  I am actually a pretty nice guy and easy to get along with, but I didn't understand why you jumped on my Bethany comment to snakehandler, unless you yourself aren't convinced about CMU.  But to say the least, you're probably not, right??

As far as the B bids, my heart says CMU even if they lose, but given everybody's knock on their weak schedule, I wouldn't be surprised if a 2 loss Linfield takes it from them.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: pg04 on November 04, 2006, 11:24:43 PM
I would say that unless CMU gets blown out of the water next week, I would put them into the field... But Linfield's history may be more helpful than anything else....
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 04, 2006, 11:25:18 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on November 04, 2006, 10:54:07 PM
...

 If Millsaps beats Trinity, however, HSU and UMHB could either play each other or each host a first round game (one hosting a fly-in and the other hosting Millsaps).  It's hard for me to imagine Trinity winning next weekend and not hosting a first round playoff game, though.

It will be fun to see what happens.

Millsaps is a fly-in for both UMHB and HSU as well.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BDTartan on November 04, 2006, 11:25:55 PM
This will probably get me be-headed but what does history have to do with the present?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 04, 2006, 11:26:44 PM
Tartan, just give it up, will ya?  I appreciate your dedication to CMU, and how this great season must have you excited.  But you're just plain coming off as the south end of a north-bound mule...if you know what I mean.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 04, 2006, 11:28:24 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 04, 2006, 11:25:18 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on November 04, 2006, 10:54:07 PM
...

 If Millsaps beats Trinity, however, HSU and UMHB could either play each other or each host a first round game (one hosting a fly-in and the other hosting Millsaps).  It's hard for me to imagine Trinity winning next weekend and not hosting a first round playoff game, though.

It will be fun to see what happens.

Millsaps is a fly-in for both UMHB and HSU as well.


Ralph, I would really want to believe you...but given the penny-pinching ways of the AA, I wouldn't be surprised to see the first in-conference first round matchup in playoff history!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: pg04 on November 04, 2006, 11:29:47 PM
Quote from: BDTartan on November 04, 2006, 11:25:55 PM
This will probably get me be-headed but what does history have to do with the present?

A lot, if it's the NCAA Selection committee... They will choose teams they know have good pasts of playing well in the Playoffs.

Again, Linfield should not make the playoffs, in my opinion (THEY HAD SEVEN TOs TODAY!), but that doesn't mean it won't happen.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 04, 2006, 11:30:43 PM
That's not necessarily true. The past 6-8 years has really seen a lot of the "tradition" factor removed from the selection process.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 04, 2006, 11:31:05 PM
tartan,I think that the Linfield loss cuts you some slack.  History is not a criterion for the playoffs.  I see CMU as the 4th Pool B at 10-0 or 9-1.

I see Linfield as the 6th, 7th, 8th or 9th Pool C depending on the East Region.

The impact of the Linfield loss on their QOWI is that they earned 8 fewer QOWI points towards their index.  Playing only 7 in-region games, that knocked them down 1.143 in the index.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Schwami on November 04, 2006, 11:31:14 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on November 04, 2006, 11:26:44 PM
Tartan, just give it up, will ya?  I appreciate your dedication to CMU, and how this great season must have you excited.  But you're just plain coming off as the south end of a north-bound mule...if you know what I mean.

Don't you mean the North end of a South bound mule?  This moving teams around to different regions is getting mighty confusing!!!  :P ;D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: pg04 on November 04, 2006, 11:32:36 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 04, 2006, 11:30:43 PM
That's not necessarily true. The past 6-8 years has really seen a lot of the "tradition" factor removed from the selection process.

I stand corrected.  I guess I should know that better than some. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 04, 2006, 11:34:32 PM
Quote from: Schwami on November 04, 2006, 11:31:14 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on November 04, 2006, 11:26:44 PM
Tartan, just give it up, will ya?  I appreciate your dedication to CMU, and how this great season must have you excited.  But you're just plain coming off as the south end of a north-bound mule...if you know what I mean.

Don't you mean the North end of a South bound mule?  This moving teams around to different regions is getting mighty confusing!!!  :P ;D

LOL.  +1 for the good geography pun.  Even so, this doesn't really have as much to do with teams moving from one region to another, as it does who gets the last mandated Pool B bid. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: pg04 on November 04, 2006, 11:37:21 PM
I guess we could say, then CMU is safe and BDT can rest easy.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BDTartan on November 04, 2006, 11:37:38 PM
Once again I am misunderstood as being CMU CMU CMU CMU CMU CMU.  Josh, I was just asking a question and I predicted correctly that someone would have something to say about it.  Do I have to start everyone of my posts with "CMU or no CMU".  Like maybe I should of said.

CMU or no CMU what does history have to do with choosing playoff teams?

Does that help?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 04, 2006, 11:39:39 PM
My comments aren't related to CMU as much as they are related to your ongoing battle with Pat.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 04, 2006, 11:42:44 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on November 04, 2006, 11:28:24 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 04, 2006, 11:25:18 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on November 04, 2006, 10:54:07 PM
...

 If Millsaps beats Trinity, however, HSU and UMHB could either play each other or each host a first round game (one hosting a fly-in and the other hosting Millsaps).  It's hard for me to imagine Trinity winning next weekend and not hosting a first round playoff game, though.

It will be fun to see what happens.

Millsaps is a fly-in for both UMHB and HSU as well.


Ralph, I would really want to believe you...but given the penny-pinching ways of the AA, I wouldn't be surprised to see the first in-conference first round matchup in playoff history!

1999 PLU beat Willamette in the first round, 28-24 on their way to the Title.
2001 PLU beat Whitworth 27-26 in OT.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: pg04 on November 04, 2006, 11:43:22 PM
We may need to set up a ring for this....
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BDTartan on November 04, 2006, 11:45:12 PM
No ring needed portgrad.  If it was a battle I would have had more to say.  I was just trying to explain myself.  Oh well, I guess I might as well just go back to the UAA board and say there huh?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 04, 2006, 11:45:25 PM
I stand corrected, Ralph.  But the AA has precedent on its side--which scares me!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: pg04 on November 04, 2006, 11:46:31 PM
Quote from: BDTartan on November 04, 2006, 11:45:12 PM
No ring needed portgrad.  If it was a battle I would have had more to say.  I was just trying to explain myself.  Oh well, I guess I might as well just go back to the UAA board and say there huh?

That's no fun!  Does anyone even inhabit that board?  That's pretty much why I float around, my board doesn't have too much usually. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BDTartan on November 04, 2006, 11:49:32 PM
Just me and cwru70 over on the UAA board for the most part.  But it ain't no fun here when everything I say is taken the wrong way and I have to try to explain myself and then my explanations are never good enough...........what's a guy to do?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: roocru on November 05, 2006, 12:08:30 AM
Quote from: BDTartan on November 04, 2006, 10:40:21 PM
Pat, is it just me or do you seem to follow me around and critique my posts??  All I was doing was pointing this out to snakehandler who said he wasn't convinced CMU would get by Bethany.  I was just telling him that they did more than get by.  I am well aware of what Thiel did to Bethany.  But its also funny that Thiel needed OT to beat Thomas Moore and Bethany came back and beat Thomas Moore so that doesn't really show anything in and of itself.

BD Tartan,

I sympathize with you but look at it this way.  I looked on Pat's personal page and between 10:34 and 10:44  he made five posts.  Two were to you on the South Regional Board, one on the E8 Board, one on the OAC board and one on the ODAC board.  His job is to moderate his entire site and it is my opinion that as he surveys the different boards, he makes short, pithy comments to posters.  He cannot take time to write missives explaining all parts of his posts. 

This chat board is just like email in that there is no body language or facial expressions to see with each post to better understand them.  He obviously is not waiting for you to post so he can respond just by looking at the number of posts he makes all over the board.   You , me or any other posters cannot read into all posts things that may or may not be there.  You do sound like a reasonable guy with good information to post.   :)

From seven years experience on the board; relax, take time before you respond to think about what you are going to say, be polite, and enjoy these boards as what they are for, the sharing of opinions.  If you don't you get closer to sounding like Eh you and that is an awful thought to consider.  ;) ::) ;D ;D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 05, 2006, 12:13:10 AM
Something tells me we won't be hearing much from Eh-You for a while, Rick!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 05, 2006, 12:15:59 AM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on November 04, 2006, 11:45:25 PM
I stand corrected, Ralph.  But the AA has precedent on its side--which scares me!

Josh, would you rather see UMHB and HSU matched in the first round, or both sent on the road to different regions at #8 seeds? ??? :)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 05, 2006, 12:17:55 AM
That's not going to happen, Ralph--one of 'em has to play the Trinity/Millsaps winner.   ;)

But hypothetically, I'd take the rematch any day.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BDTartan on November 05, 2006, 12:26:49 AM
Oh great!!  I'm being compared to that guy?!?!  I doubt anything I've posted on here has come close to his antics and I doubt I ever will.  Needless to say, I'm done with this.  I'm tired of beating my head against the wall.

Why is it that Wash. U is credited with the UAA's only playoff game when CMU played one against Lycoming in 1990??
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 05, 2006, 12:30:51 AM
Quote from: BDTartan on November 05, 2006, 12:26:49 AM
Oh great!!  I'm being compared to that guy?!?!  I doubt anything I've posted on here has come close to his antics and I doubt I ever will.  Needless to say, I'm done with this.  I'm tired of beating my head against the wall.

Why is it that Wash. U is credited with the UAA's only playoff game when CMU played one against Lycoming in 1990??

Pat has only gone back as far as the Pool system has been the mechanism for determining the playoffs. (I think). ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BDTartan on November 05, 2006, 12:33:55 AM
Okay, I wondered about that when Pat told me Wash. U was the only UAA team to play a playoff game.

How does losing to Thiel effect CMU?  Would it change who and where they play in the first round compared to being 10-0?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: roocru on November 05, 2006, 12:39:13 AM
Quote from: BDTartan on November 05, 2006, 12:26:49 AM
Oh great!!  I'm being compared to that guy?!?!  I doubt anything I've posted on here has come close to his antics and I doubt I ever will. 

BDTartan,
Don't worry.  I was not equating you with him,  ;D  just using him as the extreme far end of the spectrum.  He is (was?) definitely one of a kind !!!!!  ::) ::)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 05, 2006, 12:40:04 AM
Quote from: BDTartan on November 05, 2006, 12:33:55 AM
Okay, I wondered about that when Pat told me Wash. U was the only UAA team to play a playoff game.

How does losing to Thiel effect CMU?  Would it change who and where they play in the first round compared to being 10-0?

I think that CMU is cuurently the 4th Pool B bid.

I think that geographic proximity will impact your seeding in the bracket more than anything, especially since the NCAA is dealing with 3 South Region teams that are geographic islands, UMHB, HSU and Trinity/Millsaps. :-\

Losing to Thiel probably makes you the last at-large team seeded and you would go on the road anywhere the NCAA needs you.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BDTartan on November 05, 2006, 12:42:34 AM
Does winning the Thiel game help get a first round match-up against W&J regardless of whether its at Cameron or Gesling?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 05, 2006, 12:55:21 AM
I mentioned this to you in the post earlier where I laid it out, plus it's mentioned on the front page. Since the automatic bids went into place, Wash U is the only UAA team to make the playoffs.

Dunno why that was so hard to understand. And sorry I had to point it out to you but you persisted in the error. Guess I had to respond.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BDTartan on November 05, 2006, 12:57:14 AM
Yeah, okay Pat.  Must have forgot the details.  I knew you told me about it but I don't remember the details.  Sorry.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Toby Taff on November 05, 2006, 01:13:40 AM
Ralph,

I'd opt for the #8 seeds and moving out.  As much as I have liked the outcome of the last few HSU-UMHB games, I'd like to see them both match up with strong teams from other conferences and give a good showing for Asc deep into the playoffs.  Heck putthem on differents sides of the bracket and see if they can meet back up in the stag bowl ;D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: billybaroo on November 05, 2006, 09:59:05 AM
Quote from: mhb8904 on November 05, 2006, 01:13:40 AM
Ralph,

I'd opt for the #8 seeds and moving out.  As much as I have liked the outcome of the last few HSU-UMHB games, I'd like to see them both match up with strong teams from other conferences and give a good showing for Asc deep into the playoffs.  Heck putthem on differents sides of the bracket and see if they can meet back up in the stag bowl ;D

Smartest thing I have ever heard
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 05, 2006, 10:35:30 AM
Boy it's a good thing BDtarnan wasn't around when the fisld was smaller and undefeated teams from one region didn't  make the playoffs over one and sometimes two loss teams from other regions.... 

   Josh
I don't think there is a clear cut decison on who to send to Tex.  Dickenson probably has a better trip by bus to any of the other south schools. But they could also jump on RT 81 and go to the east(ya ya actually north) easier than any other team. I know teams from the south don't look foward to going to Wesley right now and they would like to see them move east. But them being #1 south probablt leaves them in the south
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Rikki_Tikki_Tavi on November 05, 2006, 12:19:54 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on November 05, 2006, 12:13:10 AM
Something tells me we won't be hearing much from Eh-You for a while, Rick!

LOL Now that you think Eh-You wont be back for a while, you guys got some room in here for a CNU (not CMU) fan!?!?!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 05, 2006, 12:21:01 PM
Quote from: Rikki_Tikki_Tavi on November 05, 2006, 12:19:54 PM

LOL Now that you think Eh-You wont be back for a while, you guys got some room in here for a CNU (not CMU) fan!?!?!

All fans are welcome, especially those without blinders.   :D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on November 05, 2006, 12:29:20 PM
Week #10 Comparison

* ranking will be based on current QOWI w/in each loss column
@ - indicates teams eligible for Pool B bids
( ) NCAA South Region Ranking for Week of 11/01/06

AFCA rankings as of 10/31/06

* D3 & AFCA rankings are not considered by the commitee during the selection process, they are only listed for informational purposes.

Teams in green have already clinched Conference Championships and are Pool A representatives in the 2006 Playoff field.

Teams is purple are probable Pool B recipients in the 2006 Playoff field.

"0" SOUTH REGION LOSS TEAMS w/ (regional w/l) (overall w/l) QOWI

1.  WESLEY @ (#1)              (5-0) (9-0)     11.80      D3 #4      AFCA #4
2.  CARN. MELLON @ (#5)    (8-0) (9-0)      10.25                                   

"1" SOUTH REGION LOSS TEAMS

1.   HARDIN-SIMMONS (#4)  (7-1) (7-1)     10.88     D3 #7      AFCA #11
2.   CNU (#8)                      (7-1) (7-2)     10.25
3.   DICKINSON (#6)            (8-1) (8-1)     10.22
4.   TRINITY (#2)                 (8-1) (8-1)     10.11    D3 #23   AFCA #17         
5.   WASH & JEFF @ (#7)      (7-1) (8-1)     10.00    D3 #25   AFCA #25                                           

"2" SOUTH REGION LOSS TEAMS

1.   UMHB (#3)                   (7-2) (7-2)     10.78       D3 #6     AFCA #14
2.   WASH & LEE (#10)       (7-2) (7-2)       9.33
3.   BRIDGEWATER             (7-2) (7-2)       9.11
4.   URSINUS                     (5-2) (7-2)       8.27


* Once a team has more than 2 losses in region they will drop from consideration as the season progresses. Note: Pool A (automatic qualifiers) will throw "a wrench" into the number of spots available in the South Region.

Total spots available in the DIII Playoff Field = 32. 21 Pool A "automatic qualifiers"; 4 Pool B, and 7 Pool C qualifiers, nationwide.


South Region (Pool A) Berths (Conference Champions w/ Auto-bids)

American Southwest Conference - UMHB
Centennial Conference - Dickinson
Old Dominion Athletic Conference - Washington & Lee
Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference -
USA South Athletic Conference -

* conference champions to be updated once official        


Note: To take a look at  the nationwide list of Pool C contenders refer to the Pool C -- 2006 thread on the General Football Post Patterns board.   



Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 05, 2006, 12:30:01 PM
Ron, what is your take for the Texas sub-bracket today?  Trinity -Millsaps sounds like a great game.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 05, 2006, 12:31:34 PM
Llamaguy, how do you see the South Region bracket?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on November 05, 2006, 12:34:50 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on November 05, 2006, 12:30:01 PM
Ron, what is your take for the Texas sub-bracket today?  Trinity -Millsaps sounds like a great game.

If Trinity loses I'm not certain they get a Pool C with two regional losses. More explaination on the Pool C board once I get the specifics posted later this evening. ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 05, 2006, 12:44:19 PM
Quote from: Llamaguy on November 05, 2006, 12:34:50 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on November 05, 2006, 12:30:01 PM
Ron, what is your take for the Texas sub-bracket today?  Trinity -Millsaps sounds like a great game.

If Trinity loses I'm not certain they get a Pool C with two regional losses. More explaination on the Pool C board once I get the specifics posted later this evening. ;)

I agree, Llama, unless many of the one-loss teams stumble next weekend.  Two teams from the SCAC seems very unlikely even so.  Trinity doesn't have a quality win (vs. regionally ranked opposition) to their credit.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BDTartan on November 05, 2006, 02:11:58 PM
PAWesley, what you are saying probably wouldn't have bothered me all that much considering back in 95' our high school team went 10-0 beating the best team in the league and still didn't make the playoffs because they only took four teams from each region at the time.

And you guys can do your best, your not going to bait me into saying anything stupid anymore.  CMU or no CMU I'm here to learn and talk D3 football.  If most of my posts involve CMU then so be it.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 05, 2006, 02:17:39 PM
Not trying to bait you at all BD. A few years back there were I believe 7 maybe 8 undefeated teams in the south and they all didn't make it.  And  if you had read some of my other posts you would have seen that I have said all along that an undefeated  team whoever it is deserves a spot.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 05, 2006, 02:54:52 PM
South Regional rankings shouldn't see much movement:

Top 8 all won, along with #10.  #9 lost to #8.

1.  Wesley, now 9-0
2.  Trinity, now 8-1
3.  UMHB, now 7-2
4.  HSU, now 7-1
5.  CMU, now 9-0
6.  Dickinson, now 8-1
7.  W&J, now 8-1
8.  CNU, now 7-2
10.  W&L, now 7-2

9.  Averett, now 6-3.

STILL one team too many.  What to do?  Oh, what to do?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BDTartan on November 05, 2006, 03:51:11 PM
PAWesley, I didn't say you were baiting me.  I was just saying that I'm done talking non-sense because it gets me nowhere.  And I knew what you were getting at and I have read your previous posts.  I was just saying that where I am from, our high school teams are used to getting snubbed come playoff time.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on November 05, 2006, 03:56:06 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 05, 2006, 02:54:52 PM
South Regional rankings shouldn't see much movement:

Top 8 all won, along with #10.  #9 lost to #8.

1.  Wesley, now 9-0
2.  Trinity, now 8-1
3.  UMHB, now 7-2
4.  HSU, now 7-1
5.  CMU, now 9-0
6.  Dickinson, now 8-1
7.  W&J, now 8-1
8.  CNU, now 7-2
10.  W&L, now 7-2

9.  Averett, now 6-3.

STILL one team too many.  What to do?  Oh, what to do?

Yeah my guess is that Averett drops out, and either Bridgewater or Millsaps moves in at #10 this week. ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 05, 2006, 08:01:43 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 05, 2006, 02:54:52 PM
South Regional rankings shouldn't see much movement:

Top 8 all won, along with #10.  #9 lost to #8.

1.  Wesley, now 9-0--Pool B
2.  Trinity, now 8-1--Pool A with a win over Millsaps
3.  UMHB, now 7-2--Pool A
4.  HSU, now 7-1--Pool C
5.  CMU, now 9-0--Pool B
6.  Dickinson, now 8-1--Pool A
7.  W&J, now 8-1--Pool B/C
8.  CNU, now 7-2--Pool A with a win over Ferrum
10.  W&L, now 7-2--Pool A

9.  Averett, now 6-3.

STILL one team too many.  What to do?  Oh, what to do?

I can see 9 south Region teams making the playoffs. ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on November 05, 2006, 08:06:31 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on November 05, 2006, 12:31:34 PM
Llamaguy, how do you see the South Region bracket?

Sorry it took so long Bill. I had to figure out the senarios for the rest of the country before I could figure out the South.

Here goes:

Seeds in red.

Wesley #1                 hosts         W&L #8

Trinity #2                   hosts        UMHB #3

Carnegie Mellon #4      hosts         W&J #6

Dickinson #5               hosts        CNU #7

Hardin-Simmons is shipped to the West bracket for a fly-in or could host a fly-in

If Millsaps beats Trinity I still see them playing UMHB also except they would have to fly there as they would anywhere. The seeds would change in that case but wouldn't affect pairings.

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 05, 2006, 08:17:50 PM
Llamaguy,  you really think they will break up the Texas sub bracket?  If they should keep HSU, who do you see being sent elsewhere?  Thanks for the information.  It will be fun next Sunday to see how the NCAA places the teams.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on November 05, 2006, 08:20:39 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on November 05, 2006, 08:17:50 PM
Llamaguy,  you really think they will break up the Texas sub bracket?  If they should keep HSU, who do you see being sent elsewhere?  Thanks for the information.  It will be fun next Sunday to see how the NCAA places the teams.

Not sure? The problem is the East can fill their bracket on their own, the North fills itself out as well. The West is where teams are needed. :-\
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 05, 2006, 08:21:23 PM
Llamaguy, just curious, but why would you ship out HSU?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 05, 2006, 08:23:07 PM
LLama  

 I was thinking that the committee would leave W&L with a closer game and send Dickinson or CMU to Wesley. But you think they will seat according to actually ranking after whateve becomes of thew Tex, bracket. I guess other than a plane ride, a bus rise is a bus ride be it 250 miles or 150 ?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 05, 2006, 08:26:18 PM
Llamaguy, should Trinity lose this weekend, could they receive a Pool C?  What would that do to the South bracket?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on November 05, 2006, 08:32:36 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on November 05, 2006, 08:21:23 PM
Llamaguy, just curious, but why would you ship out HSU?

They would be the lowest Texas seed. I guess potentially if Trinity loses Millsaps, Millsaps could be shipped but that would leave an all ASC first round game.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BDTartan on November 05, 2006, 08:34:53 PM
PA_wesley, W&L???  Do you mean W&J?  Cuz if its W&J, who would be closer than CMU at 20 miles??
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 05, 2006, 08:35:19 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on November 05, 2006, 08:26:18 PM
Llamaguy, should Trinity lose this weekend, could they receive a Pool C?  What would that do to the South bracket?

I don't think that a 2-loss Trinity gets a Pool C bid.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 05, 2006, 08:37:29 PM
Quote from: BDTartan on November 05, 2006, 08:34:53 PM
PA_wesley, W&L???  Do you mean W&J?  Cuz if its W&J, who would be closer than CMU at 20 miles??

CMU and W&J makes sense from a student-athlete perspective.

It is basically a home game for both, played on the field of the higher seed!

Any playoff game where you can spend the night before in your own bed is a good thing!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: patcummings on November 05, 2006, 08:40:44 PM
PAWesley...

AGAIN...the committee will not make a pairing because one school is closer to another if all possible opponents are driving anyway.  The committee has made it known they attempt to eliminate flights in the first round.  Driving 230 or 290 miles will not make a difference to the committee. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BDTartan on November 05, 2006, 08:42:30 PM
Good point Ralph!!  I would love to see that game, but we'll have to wait and see.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 05, 2006, 08:43:45 PM
Quote from: patcummings on November 05, 2006, 08:40:44 PM
PAWesley...

AGAIN...the committee will not make a pairing because one school is closer to another if all possible opponents are driving anyway.  The committee has made it known they attempt to eliminate flights in the first round.  Driving 230 or 290 miles will not make a difference to the committee. 

I disagree, Pat.  It's very much a real possibility, in my mind, that W&J and CMU will be paired with one another in the first round.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Rikki_Tikki_Tavi on November 05, 2006, 08:45:03 PM
Here you go, W&L vs. CNU with the winner going to Wesley. That's an easy one to the untrained eye (me!). Close proximity, bus trip with the winner going to Dover, which is another bus trip. Just a thought.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on November 05, 2006, 08:46:49 PM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on November 05, 2006, 08:23:07 PM
LLama  

 I was thinking that the committee would leave W&L with a closer game and send Dickinson or CMU to Wesley. But you think they will seat according to actually ranking after whateve becomes of thew Tex, bracket. I guess other than a plane ride, a bus rise is a bus ride be it 250 miles or 150 ?


Actually precedent was set last year. Ferrum was sent to Wesley and W&J was sent to BC. It would have actually been 12 miles shorter for W&J to go to Wesley and much closer for Ferrum to have traveled to BC.

Bill,
No, if Trinity loses this week I don't see them getting a bid. I see the last two Pool C spots going to 2 of the following 5 teams: Cortland State, Bethel, Wartburg, UW-Lax, and Franklin. All of those are 1 loss teams. ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on November 05, 2006, 08:52:01 PM
Quote from: Rikki_Tikki_Tavi on November 05, 2006, 08:45:03 PM
Here you go, W&L vs. CNU with the winner going to Wesley. That's an easy one to the untrained eye (me!). Close proximity, bus trip with the winner going to Dover, which is another bus trip. Just a thought.

Except they are both in the bottom 4 seeds. Put them in a remote South D3 location, like Texas  ;D and then you would have a shot at that matchup. ;) Unless one of the teams higher in the South Region poll loses, or CNU jumps W&J and Dickinson, CNU will not host a first round game.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 05, 2006, 08:55:09 PM
As long as they all come to Wesley .... Boy I know someone that's going to be in the dog house when Wesley plays three home games in a row...Me

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Rikki_Tikki_Tavi on November 05, 2006, 08:59:54 PM
Llama, you are officially the Dali-llama!! I posted that before i read what came about the same time I hit the post button. But I gotcha. CNU to Dickinson huh. Damn NC Wesleyan!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 05, 2006, 09:02:31 PM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on November 05, 2006, 08:55:09 PM
As long as they all come to Wesley .... Boy I know someone that's going to be in the dog house when Wesley plays three home games in a row...Me

Isn't that scenario covered on one of the commercials for "Man Rules"?

I clearly remember that old Florida State football player, Burt Reynolds, covering that one.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 05, 2006, 09:04:57 PM
Ralph, what is do you think of sending HSU to the West?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 05, 2006, 09:06:44 PM
But someone here has tHERe own man rules!!!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on November 05, 2006, 09:07:25 PM
Quote from: Rikki_Tikki_Tavi on November 05, 2006, 08:59:54 PM
Llama, you are officially the Dali-llama!! I posted that before i read what came about the same time I hit the post button. But I gotcha. CNU to Dickinson huh. Damn NC Wesleyan!!

You got it man! Dickinson is a manageable matchup though.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 05, 2006, 09:17:13 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on November 05, 2006, 09:04:57 PM
Ralph, what is do you think of sending HSU to the West?

This involves one plane flight and probably no overnight expenses for W&J.

Wesley #1 hosts #8 CNU (Drive up the Atlantic Coast)
CMU #5 hosts #7 W&J  (only 20 miles from Washington, PA to Pittsburgh!)

UMHB #3 hosts #10 W&L -- only flight
Trinity #2 hosts #4 HSU -- if I am HSU, I like this.

#6 Dickinson goes East.

Bill, did UMHB drive to San Antonio and to Abilene and spend the night before the games in 2004?  More accurately, did the NCAA pay for UMHB to drive to San Antonio and to Abilene and spend the night before the games in 2004?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Rikki_Tikki_Tavi on November 05, 2006, 09:23:02 PM
Quote from: Llamaguy on November 05, 2006, 09:07:25 PM
Quote from: Rikki_Tikki_Tavi on November 05, 2006, 08:59:54 PM
Llama, you are officially the Dali-llama!! I posted that before i read what came about the same time I hit the post button. But I gotcha. CNU to Dickinson huh. Damn NC Wesleyan!!

You got it man! Dickinson is a manageable matchup though.

Thanks llama, but they still have to win next Sunday. When they do (they better!), then Ill start picking everyone's brain again!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 05, 2006, 09:24:07 PM
If I am sending Dickinson to the East, then what does the East look like?

E8
LL
NJAC
MAC
NEFC
Dickinson
Pool C
Pool C.

I think that the East gets 2 Pool C bids.  Please look on the Pool C board for a very comprehensive table compiled by llama guy.

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 05, 2006, 09:26:16 PM
Yes, they spent the night before the games.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on November 05, 2006, 09:38:46 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 05, 2006, 09:24:07 PM
If I am sending Dickinson to the East, then what does the East look like?

E8
LL
NJAC
MAC
NEFC
Dickinson
Pool C
Pool C.

I think that the East gets 2 Pool C bids.  Please look on the Pool C board for a very comprehensive table compiled by llama guy.



That could very well be the case as well Ralph. I have SJF and Hobart winning tough games with one spot left in the East also. If Cortland State doesn't get in, either because they lost to Ithaca, or because Bethel or Wartburg got the last Pool C to fill out the West, then a South team must go East. Good call!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: K-Mack on November 05, 2006, 09:49:41 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on November 02, 2006, 02:50:48 PMAnd, given that CMU and W&J are all of about 20 miles apart, I betcha those two schools play each other, should they both win out the rest of the way.

Unless they need one of them to be the Purple Raiders' sacrificial lamb.

I guess CMU/W&J and W&L/CNU makes sense ... but three of those four might not deserve a home game.

Wesley should be at home.
UMHB should be at home vs. SCAC champ
CMU should be at home
the fourth one is a crap shoot between two-loss CNU, two-loss

I guess they could fly someone into UMHB and have Trinity/Millsaps go to Hardin-Simmons.

I dunno. I guess I should read before I post.

This was another one I thought up earlier, without remembering W&J

QuoteHSU at Dickinson
Trinity/Millsaps at UMHB

CNU at Carnegie Mellon
W&L at Wesley
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: K-Mack on November 05, 2006, 09:54:02 PM
Quote from: BDTartan on November 04, 2006, 10:51:20 PM
First of all portgrad, what is there to disagree with????  I never said it was an accomplishment to drub Bethany.  Second of all, it had everything to do with what snakehandler said.  Once again, I was just pointing it out to snakehandle because he wasn't "convinced they'll get by Bethany".

Lastly, Pat has jumped all over me as of late and I didn't think that my post deserved his retort.  Pat, I don't care what you say, or what you think of me, I've told you this before but give me a break man.  I don't think there was any reason to say what you said.  And you can post 14,000 more times and it won't change a thing will it?

I think in context, you're right, your response was to something snakehandler said, and was harmless.

But I also think you're going to need to toughen up if you're gonna be on the boards. If Pat or whoever disagrees with you, just let them disagree. No need to make it into a personal whinefest every time.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: K-Mack on November 05, 2006, 09:54:41 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on November 04, 2006, 11:05:23 PM
I am curious as to Carnegie Mellon's playoff chances, should they lose to Thiel on Saturday next.  I'm guessing--and thinking out loud here--because there are four Pool B spots and Linfield lost today, CMU will likely get the last Pool B spot (Behind Wesley, Whitworth and W&J) regardless of the outcome of the game.

Could this actually be sound reasoning?   ???

I think so.

W&J (at Bethany) is the only Pool B that can't afford to lose next week, as it would pick up a second loss and then bring other two-loss Pool Bs, of which there aren't many, to the cusp of the picture.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BDTartan on November 05, 2006, 10:25:36 PM
I see your point K-Mack, and I have already started my journey down that road.  I've decided to just stop the conversation short if it ever comes to that anymore.

I'm glad you think CMU should be at home.  I personally thought that even at 10-0 they would be playing outside of Pittsburgh.  They are no strangers to travel and flights.  Wash. U and Chicago are flights for them and they've flown out to Colorado College.  I don't know enough to say whether or not they're home or who they even play, but I'm all for a first round game at Gesling.  Good thing they put that new field turf in this past year.  I don't know about playing surfaces factoring in, but no team would have wanted to come play on the turf they had last year.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 05, 2006, 10:37:32 PM
BDtartan

  Wesley actually was seeded higher than Trinity a few years back and because of the field condition and seating they had to play in Texas where they played in the aftermath of a big storm and ended up in the mud any way.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BDTartan on November 05, 2006, 10:41:05 PM
Wow, I bet that had to suck.  No need to worry about that at Gesling.  New field-turf and seating for about 3500.  Add the top of the parking garage and all the standing room you could want on the visitors side and I would say you could bump that up to about 5500.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 05, 2006, 10:45:44 PM
Wesley has new turf too. Added seats on both side of the field and one end zone though I don't know the capacity. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BDTartan on November 05, 2006, 10:56:32 PM
I notice more and more teams at all levels are going to the new Field-Turf.  I wonder what advantages it must have over other turfs or natural surfaces.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: K-Mack on November 05, 2006, 11:14:52 PM
Quote from: BDTartan on November 05, 2006, 10:56:32 PM
I notice more and more teams at all levels are going to the new Field-Turf.  I wonder what advantages it must have over other turfs or natural surfaces.

I don't know, as I never played on it, but there was a very noticable difference between the turf at Belton HS (UMHB) and Rowan. The former was more grasslike and the field surface softer. Rowan seemed like a faster track, shorter and probably would leave more scrapes and burns.

FWIW. The surfaces, according to teams, are a big part of going on the road in the playoffs, not knowing what shoes to bring,etc.

I think CMU, at 9-1, would be on the road, and maybe even shipped to the North or East. But with the abundance of teams in the South who are going to make playoffs with a loss or two, and with the so-called Texas sub-bracket, I think you have to reward CMU for the unbeaten year with the home game.

Wesley is going to host at 10-0.
UMHB, or one of the Texas teams, is going to host.

Then you've got:
CMU 10-0 possibly
Dickinson 10-0 possibly
Wash & Jeff. 9-1 ... these teams will have a common opponent, but all wins.
CNU 8-2 ... has a common opponent (Salisbury) to put them above W&J, and won't be shipped to UMHB
Hardin-Simmons (one loss)
Trinity (one loss) or Millsaps (three losses)
Wash. & Lee (two losses)

So all things considered, I think if CMU and Dickinson stay in the East, there's a good chance their unbeaten records will be rewarded. The QoWI may not allow it, but there is a chance.

And if you got to play at W&J, it would reward your fans with what's practically a home game, so you can't go wrong there.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: K-Mack on November 05, 2006, 11:18:25 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 05, 2006, 09:17:13 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on November 05, 2006, 09:04:57 PM
Ralph, what is do you think of sending HSU to the West?

This involves one plane flight and probably no overnight expenses for W&J.

Wesley #1 hosts #8 CNU (Drive up the Atlantic Coast)
CMU #5 hosts #7 W&J  (only 20 miles from Washington, PA to Pittsburgh!)

UMHB #3 hosts #10 W&L -- only flight
Trinity #2 hosts #4 HSU -- if I am HSU, I like this.

#6 Dickinson goes East.

Bill, did UMHB drive to San Antonio and to Abilene and spend the night before the games in 2004?  More accurately, did the NCAA pay for UMHB to drive to San Antonio and to Abilene and spend the night before the games in 2004?

W & L at Dickinson is a manageable drive.

Depending on this week's results, the East might not need another team. If Cortland, St. John Fisher and Hobart win ...

Wilkes AQ
Rowan AQ
Springfield AQ
Curry AQ
Hobart Pool C 9-1
Union AQ
Cortland Pool C 9-1
SJF Pool C 9-1

Then you figure maybe CMU or W&J goes to the North bracket, maybe to Capital or Mount Union.

Or maybe someone unexpected loses and changes everything.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BDTartan on November 05, 2006, 11:36:16 PM
It will all be settled this weekend right? 

K-Mack, you're right about the "home" game at W&J, but I think any of the teams mentioned here that CMU would possibly play other than UMHB would be a very manageable drive for CMU fans. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Toby Taff on November 06, 2006, 12:36:27 AM
concerning the field turf...

My understanding is that it is a monofilament turf, so it is much more like grass.  It is wierd to watch people running on it and see the rubber beads coming up, but the surface is supposed to be much better than early turfs.  The way it works is the field is covered in rubber beads and the beads settle in between the filaments ultimately packing and forming a rubber base for the turf.  Its kind of like sanding a golf green to make the green faster.  The sand holds the blades of grass up and protects much of the blade so the green can be cut very short without killing the turf.  Same Idea, just no cutting.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 06, 2006, 08:23:17 AM
Quote from: K-Mack on November 05, 2006, 11:14:52 PM
Dickinson 10-0 possibly

Not to be picky (I like your analysis), but the Devils lost at Hobart (by only three) during the second week of the season.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Snakehandler on November 06, 2006, 09:41:44 AM
I was wrong.

I am no longer a Melon Hater.  I like the idea of them going 10-0 and receiving a #2 seed.

I would like to try another projection, but I have no idea.  Somebody is either going to get left out all together or shipped.

In my eyes there are 9 teams right now.

Dickinson
Wesley
W&J
Carnigie Melon
W&L
CNU
UMHB
Trinity
Hardin Simmons

Which way a team gets sent is hard to tell. Seems like every other Region is loaded up as it is.  I'll just wait for selection Sunday, or for a team to drop a game they shuoldn't have.


Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BDTartan on November 06, 2006, 09:22:37 PM
Couldn't figure out why you were a Mellon hater anyways.  I wasn't saying they were headed all the way, but I figure you got to give them credit for going from 5-5 last year to a possible 10-0 and playoff berth this year.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 08, 2006, 08:41:53 AM
Interesting if the projections for the South play out.  UMHB would be playing a rematch with CNU and if HSU wins at Trinity, another rematch.  Has any team ever played rematches in the first two rounds?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Snakehandler on November 08, 2006, 10:51:25 AM
Typically the NCAA will try not to let that happen.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 08, 2006, 10:52:41 AM
Snakehandler, what I've read on here earlier is that they try to avoid 1st round conference rematches.  Is that what you see?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 08, 2006, 11:39:09 AM
Only conference rematches are protected.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 08, 2006, 11:43:24 AM
Thanks Pat.  Have you ever seen a team play rematches in the first 2 rounds?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BDTartan on November 08, 2006, 09:20:37 PM
I would assume that the projection in the daily dose of CMU hosting W&J is only if they get by Thiel.  I can't see them hosting if they lose.  Maybe, but I'm not the one to say so.  I figure they still get in but have to travel.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 08, 2006, 09:35:38 PM
Yes, all of the projections are based on teams winning out.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BDTartan on November 08, 2006, 09:40:56 PM
I figured, and I didn't think you guys were going to write a book explaining every litlle detail either.  But thanks anyways Pat.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Snakehandler on November 09, 2006, 09:10:15 AM
Quote from: BDTartan on November 08, 2006, 09:20:37 PM
I would assume that the projection in the daily dose of CMU hosting W&J is only if they get by Thiel.  I can't see them hosting if they lose.  Maybe, but I'm not the one to say so.  I figure they still get in but have to travel.

Not so fast my friend.  There are many folks out there that are pointing to this game as the only descent team the Melons are playing this year. Lose this game and you might want to have a bourban ready for the Sunday selection show.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 09, 2006, 09:25:28 AM
Now, let me think....

Selection Sunday and a western Pa team is wondering 'what happened?'

Where have we heard THAT song before....

Echos from previous Selection Sundays....

"Why didn't we get in?"

"How come you didn't choose us?"
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 09, 2006, 09:43:02 AM
IF the Tartans get blown out by the Tomcats this weekend are they worthy to be in the playoffs based on their schedule?


I think not to be honest with you.  19-44 overall record combined for thier opponents thats atrocious. 


Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: billybaroo on November 09, 2006, 10:42:35 AM
I dont think it will happen but if HPU beats UMHB then would the Cru lose the home play-off game even though they are still the conference champs?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 09, 2006, 11:32:08 AM
UMHB loses, they will be on the road, and I would think at Trinity.   HSU would probably get a home gain with the fly-in team.  That's assuming that one team wouldn't be shipped out of region.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 09, 2006, 11:34:30 AM
I read on the Pool C thread that Linfield's dropping out of the regional rankings drops HSU from having a win over a regionally ranked opponent.  Now that might be the reason they would be below Trinity.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: billybaroo on November 09, 2006, 01:38:31 PM
Hasn't Linfield been to the Play offs for several years in a row? Or do they have a winning streak that is different from the play off streak
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BDTartan on November 09, 2006, 01:39:35 PM
Well, I guess CMU will just have to take care of business then.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 09, 2006, 01:45:39 PM
The Linfield streak is consecutive winning seasons.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 11, 2006, 05:31:22 PM
Wesley
UMHB
HSU
CMU
Dickinson
W&J
CNU
W&L
Millsaps

Now, how's that shake out?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 11, 2006, 05:33:50 PM
Bob, what do you see as the first round match ups?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 11, 2006, 05:40:06 PM
Wesley
UMHB
HSU
CMU
Dickinson
W&J
CNU
W&L
Millsaps


Here are the problems for the NCAA & they are significant.

Millsaps is 529 miles to Belton (UMHB)
Millsaps is 584 miles to Abilene (HSU)
Millsaps is 796 miles to Lexington (W&L)

UMHB & HSU are in the same conference. Can't (?) play in first round.

Flight to UMHB
Flight to HSU
Millsaps on flight....

And HOW will the NCAA make this work?

Now, how's that shake out?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 11, 2006, 05:42:44 PM
I sure hope they don't match up HSU and UMHB in the first round.  That really doesn't seem fair, just because of geography.  It's like the ASC is penalized because of being in Texas.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Toby Taff on November 11, 2006, 05:45:49 PM
Wesley
UMHB
HSU
CMU
Dickinson
W&J
CNU
W&L
Millsaps


Here are the problems for the NCAA & they are significant.

Millsaps is 529 miles to Belton (UMHB)
Millsaps is 584 miles to Abilene (HSU)
Millsaps is 796 miles to Lexington (W&L)

UMHB & HSU are in the same conference. Can't (?) play in first round.

Flight to UMHB
Flight to HSU
Millsaps on flight....

And HOW will the NCAA make this work?

Now, how's that shake out?
-------------------------------------------

How about
Millsaps to Wesley
CNU to UMHB
W&L to HSU
W&J to CMU

Dickenson to the East?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 11, 2006, 05:48:03 PM
Quote from: mhb8904 on November 11, 2006, 05:45:49 PM
How about
Millsaps to Wesley
CNU to UMHB
W&L to HSU
W&J to CMU

Dickinson to the East?

That's what I had, but that's Flight, flight, flight.  I have to see that to believe it.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 11, 2006, 05:54:14 PM
I'm glad to know that the UMHB is already in and just waiting to see who they play.  2003 was awful when we were not invited.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 11, 2006, 05:58:23 PM
How about

W&L to Wesley
Millsaps to UMHB
CNU to HSU
W&J to CMU

Dickinson to the East.

That's TWO flights.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 11, 2006, 05:59:09 PM
I'll take it! SOLD.  :)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 11, 2006, 06:06:08 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 11, 2006, 05:58:23 PM
How about

W&L to Wesley
Millsaps to UMHB
W&L to HSU
W&J to CMU

Dickinson to the East.

That's TWO flights.

Quote from: Bill McCabe on November 11, 2006, 05:59:09 PM
I'll take it! SOLD.  :)


Okay!  It's official!

Washington & Lee Varsity goes to Wesley!
Washington & Lee "B" Team goes to HSU!

:D :D :D ;D :D ::) ;) :) 8)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 11, 2006, 06:21:33 PM
On the Pool C board, I gave Pool C bids to Cortland State, St John Fisher and Hobart!

That means that the East will have those 3 Pool C's plus Pool A bids from NJAC, E8, LL, NEFC and the MAC.

IMHO, CMU goes to the North Region.

The North Region will have OAC, NCAC, MIAA, HCAC, CCIW, IBFC, Capital and Wheaton as a Pool C's and CMU, as a Pool B.  I am not sure whom they send to the West. (IBFC or Wheaton are geographically the closest.)

The South has Pool B's Wesley and W&J.  The Pool A bids are  USAC, ASC, SCAC, ODAC, Centennial.  HSU is the Pool C bid.

Out West, I see Pool B Whitworth, plus WIAC, MIAC, MWC, SCIAC, and IIAC.  St John's is the Pool C.  One team gets moved into the West.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BDTartan on November 11, 2006, 07:33:16 PM
Does CMU get a home game in the north?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: ADL70 on November 11, 2006, 08:40:21 PM
Ralph is it proximity rather than ranking that gets CMU to the Mt Union bracket?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 11, 2006, 09:44:06 PM
Quote from: cwru70 on November 11, 2006, 08:40:21 PM
Ralph is it proximity rather than ranking that gets CMU to the Mt Union bracket?

cwru70, IMHO, yes.  As we have seen in Texas in all sports, including the National champion Trinity Men's soccer team playing every game past the first one on the road in about 2003 to #5 UMHB going to #4 Trinity in the first round football playoffs 2002, it is about Travel budget!

I also think that CMU has its best chance to catch a "weak" #5 at home as a #4 seed.  The geography is pushing CMU westward and not to the south and east.

As I read the opinions of other fans, I see the decision between a 3rd Pool C bid in the East (Cortland St?) vs. UW-Lacrosse getting a second Pool C bid in the West for the final Pool C bid as what determines the bracket in which CMU is slotted.  If there are only 7 bids given to East Region teams, then I think that Dickinson goes East.  If there are 8 East bids, then I think that CMU goes to the North.  (After all, the UAA is as much a North Region conference (CWRU and UChicago) as a South Region one (CMU and Wash StL).

In the North, does an undefeated CMU get the second first round home game for the eastern side of the region, a #4 vs. #5 and the winner going to MUC?  In the North, how is Capital slotted?  MUC, North Central, Wheaton, Witt, Capital, Concordia WI, MSJ, Hope?  Hope to North Central and MSJ to Wheaton; Capital to CMU and Witt to MUC?  That is the only way I can see CMU hosting a game in the North Region, but there are many other bracketologists who are better than I. :-\

In the South, I can see W&J going to CMU as a 4/5 and playing the winner of the Wesley/CNU game.  Also I see UMHB hosting Millsaps and W&L going to HSU.

Just my opinion... :)  (One other comment, I am not trying to force my opinion on others.  I do enjoy discussing the process, and I beleive that we fans have figured out as much of the process as we can know over the last 6-8 seasons.  It is clearly easier to "seat" the teams now than it was 5-7 years ago.  I just propose these thoughts for others to consider and I greatly respect the carefully considered arguments of my fellow posters.)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CNU85 on November 11, 2006, 10:04:26 PM
there's a lot of talk about CNU going on the road. I'd like to see the reasoning behind it. CNU has 1 region loss, a region win against UMHB and the only non region loss was to Rowan....I  think that deserves a home game.....a trip to UMHB (a team we beat) just doesn't seem to be the right thing to do.  A trip to Wesley doesn't seem right for round 1....W&L should go to Wesley....but what do I know?

i am a little biased in my thoughts.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 11, 2006, 10:13:02 PM
Quote from: CNU85 on November 11, 2006, 10:04:26 PM
there's a lot of talk about CNU going on the road. I'd like to see the reasoning behind it. CNU has 1 region loss, a region win against UMHB and the only non region loss was to Rowan....I  think that deserves a home game.....a trip to UMHB (a team we beat) just doesn't seem to be the right thing to do.  A trip to Wesley doesn't seem right for round 1....W&L should go to Wesley....but what do I know?

i am a little biased in my thoughts.

CNU85, You have a good question, but I think that you are trumped by geography.  Geographic proximity is the main (under-appreciated and not-formally listed but frequently mentioned) criterion.  You have 3 bids that are a plane flight away from your part of the bracket.  They do not like to play conference members (UMHB and HSU) in the first round.  Millsaps must fly everywhere, so send them as the #8 to Texas and fly another low seed (W&L?) to HSU.  If Dickinson is sent East, then undefeated Carnegie-Mellon and W&J are twenty miles apart.  You are left with Wesley on the road or a plane flight to Texas.

IMHO, that is a bracket that is determined by geography! :-\
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: exmajor on November 11, 2006, 11:10:47 PM
Just an FYI, Millsaps did submit a bid to host a first round game.  I realize a three loss team is not the first choice for the NCAA, but the facilities are excellent and Jackson has a fairly accesible airport.  I know it is likely they head somewhere in Texas, but I'll take it seeing as Trinity has been in the last 9 years.  A very exciting day for Millsaps!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: ADL70 on November 11, 2006, 11:16:36 PM
As you say Ralph, a lot depends on who gets the last C slot.  The whole regional rankings concept perplexes me when a team is moved out of region (well it makes no sense to me in any regard, but especially in this situation).  Does the dreaded QOWI decide who hosts betwen teams paired by in differenct regions (but of course that index is based only on regional results)?  If so, then maybe CMU @ Cap, if CMU goes N?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 11, 2006, 11:26:07 PM
As I understand the Regional Rankings and then the National Selection, they rank the 4 regions and put them out on the table.

Then they pull out the Pool A's.
Then they pull out the Pool B's.

Every other team in the country (facetiously speaking, but really only those in the Regional Rankings) remains.

The Pool C bids are then filled.

Best remaining team from the four regions.
Next best remaining team from the four regions.
Next best...
Next best...
Down thru the 7th bid.

I wish that I could help you understand what is happening behind those dooors, but I don't even fell confident enough to post where CMU is going.

My two best guesses depend on the 7th Pool C bid.
If the West gets 2 Pool C bids, then I think that Dickinson goes East to fill that bracket and CMU hosts W&J.

If the East gets 3 Pool C bids, then CMU is farthest West and closest to the North (MUC) bracket.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 11, 2006, 11:45:14 PM
And if the NORTH gets three C's, Dickinson goes East, Concordia Wisc goes West and CMU hosts W&J.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 11, 2006, 11:47:23 PM
Here's my new South Region rankings and how they'll matchup in first round:

1.  Wesley
2.  UMHB
3.  HSU
4.  CMU
5.  W&J
6.  Dickinson
7.  CNU
8.  Millsaps
9.  W&L

W&L @ Wesley
Millsaps @ UMHB
CNU @ HSU
W&J @ CMU

Dickinson to the East.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 12, 2006, 12:56:11 AM
Just back from the HSU game, so this is my first chance to weigh in.

Bob, your projected South bracket is exactly the same as mine, because I do believe that Millsaps is within the driving distance parameters for a game at UMHB--at least based on the way I mapped it.  It seems pretty cut and dried--at least to me.

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2006, 12:57:41 AM
Here's my brackets, just for the fun of it:

I'm projectingHobart, St. John Fisher, Hardin-Simmons, Wheaton, Capital, Franklin and UW LaCrosse as the Pool C's.

Wesley, Whitworth, CMU & W&J as the Pool B's.

South (exporting Dickinson to the East):
Washington & Lee at Wesley
Millsaps at UMary Hardin-Baylor
Christopher Newport at Hardin-Simmons
Washington & Jefferson at Carnegie-Mellon

East (importing Dickinson from South):
Curry at Wilkes
Dickinson at Springfield
Hobart at St. John Fisher
Union at Rowan


North (exporting Concordia Wisconsin to the West):
Hope at Mt. Union
Wittenberg at Capital
Franklin at Wheaton
Mt. St. Joseph's at North Central


West (importing Concordia Wisconsin from the North):
St. Norbert at UW Whitewater
Bethel at Central
Occidental at Whitworth
UW LaCrosse at Concordia Wisc.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2006, 12:59:49 AM
Josh,

I come up with 529 miles from Jackson to Belton.  Of course, if there's a way to move the two towns closer, NCAA will find it.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 12, 2006, 01:10:35 AM
Bob, MapQuest says that if they drive through Shreveport, LA it's 498 miles.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on November 12, 2006, 01:10:59 AM
Here's my new South Region rankings and how they'll matchup in first round:

1.  Wesley
2.  UMHB
3.  HSU
4.  CMU
5.  W&J
6.  CNU
7.  Millsaps
8.  Dickinson
9.  W&L

W&L @ Wesley
HSU @ UMHB ------------> 1 FLIGHT
Millsaps @ CMU
CNU @ W&J

Dickinson to the East.

I hope I'm wrong but just wanted to throw it out there incase the AA works their $ magic.  :-\
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: theoriginalupstate on November 12, 2006, 01:13:44 AM
Any southerners got the scoop on Dickinson?

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 12, 2006, 01:18:15 AM
Pat has posted final playoff projections in the Daily Dose blog--and I agree with his projections in the south:  chalk will rule the day, IMO.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2006, 01:18:44 AM
Llamaguy,

IF Josh is right about Shreveport, then Millsaps to UMHB is a bus.

Therefore, CNU to HSU

W&J to CMU
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 12, 2006, 01:19:50 AM
Geez, Bob.  You can try it yourself if you don't believe me.  I have no reason to lie about it.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2006, 01:26:23 AM
Josh,

Wasn't saying anything at all about you lying.

I ran Mapquest and it gave me the number I posted.  That's all.

Get some sleep.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 12, 2006, 01:31:21 AM
I think I need to....long day, lots of driving--but some pretty good pictures!

Sorry.....
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 12, 2006, 02:20:23 AM
The NCAA uses Mappoint, not Mapquest, and uses the shortest possible distance setting, as always.

If you are getting 529, you are not using shortest possible distance setting. If your map software doesn't have that setting, stop using it.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Toby Taff on November 12, 2006, 02:31:06 AM
I get Millsaps to UMHB at 491 miles.  I wouldn't want to make that drive though.  1 Full day on the bus and then play a hard hitting stingey defense.  No thanks.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2006, 07:45:29 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 12, 2006, 02:20:23 AM
The NCAA uses Mappoint, not Mapquest, and uses the shortest possible distance setting, as always.

If you are getting 529, you are not using shortest possible distance setting. If your map software doesn't have that setting, stop using it.

Yes, by guru, SIR!

I have changed the setting as ordered, sir!

And, by golly gosh gee, the NCAA HAS moved these two schools under the 500 mile limit!

Begging your pardon, sir!

1701 North State Street, Jackson, MS  39210 to
900 College Street, Belton, TX 76513

Comes in at 498.49 miles, sir!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: exmajor on November 12, 2006, 09:59:03 AM
It would be a difficult drive for Millsaps!  I remember driving to SA one year, going through Houston to get to SA.  Now I grew up in Houston and loved coming home to Texas to play, but even for me this was a killer of a bus ride.  I would imagine Millsaps would go over on I20 and head south for this one though. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CNU85 on November 12, 2006, 10:51:25 AM
Here's what I don't like.....CNU beats the ASC champion...both the ASC champ and CNU have 1 in region loss......and UMHB gets a higher seed AND (The part that really doesn't make sense to me) CNU has to go on the road to play the ASC runner up!!!

That makes no sense to this biased CNU fan!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 12, 2006, 10:56:38 AM
First off, nothing has been officially decided.  We're all just pundits, here, making projections.

Second, you lost to North Carolina Wesleyan.  Take it like a man.   ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CNU85 on November 12, 2006, 11:03:51 AM
Pat and the guys are pretty good at picking the matchups. they have CNU @ HSU.....I still say HSU is the runner up in a conference where we beat the conference champion...send HSU to our house!!!

and next year we take revenge on NCW!!! (I hope - cuz they are my next year's pre-season favorite to win the conf)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 12, 2006, 11:05:21 AM
Also, just FYI, HSU has only one overall in-region loss as the ASC runner-up, too.  The ASC champ has TWO in region losses.   ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CNU85 on November 12, 2006, 11:22:00 AM
I thought UMHB other loss was to UW-Whitewater? Are they in the south region?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CNU85 on November 12, 2006, 11:25:27 AM
and to make my point even more...HSU/CNU common opponent is UMHB...CNU won, HSU lost......send them to our house!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 12, 2006, 11:32:34 AM
I repeat:  you lost to North Carolina Wesleyan.  Say it with me three times, slowly, so that the profound impact of those words can sink in....   ;)

Yes, Wisconsin Whitewater counts as an in-region game for UMHB.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CNU85 on November 12, 2006, 11:35:12 AM
the words can't some out of my mouth....

and why does the UW-Whitewater game count as in-region fo UMHB?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 12, 2006, 11:39:41 AM
New scheduling criteria from the NCAA this season--you can read about it on the front page. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CNU85 on November 12, 2006, 11:44:40 AM
oops...I missed it....I'll go read it.

Thanks Josh!

Also - I realize the NCW game means we travel.....that's why I keep saying that my points are biased......but to tell you the truth.....the NCW loss was needed. We were rolling too easily and needed somone to tell us we can be beat....and I'm glad it wasn't Averett that beat us!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 12, 2006, 01:44:23 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2006, 12:59:49 AM
Josh,

I come up with 529 miles from Jackson to Belton.  Of course, if there's a way to move the two towns closer, NCAA will find it.


This is a good place for me to express my mea culpa for misloading the program on Jackson to Belton on mappoint.com "shortest possible route" from earlier in the season.  I know that I would have remembered that factoid! :-\

I am glad that it works out that way! :)

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2006, 02:10:58 PM
Wash & Lee to the East!!!

What's THAT do?  We'll see shortly.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on November 12, 2006, 02:13:16 PM
Quote from: Llamaguy on November 12, 2006, 01:10:59 AM
Here's my new South Region rankings and how they'll matchup in first round:

1.  Wesley
2.  UMHB
3.  HSU
4.  CMU
5.  W&J
6.  CNU
7.  Millsaps
8.  Dickinson
9.  W&L

W&L @ Wesley
HSU @ UMHB ------------> 1 FLIGHT
Millsaps @ CMU
CNU @ W&J

Dickinson to the East.

I hope I'm wrong but just wanted to throw it out there incase the AA works their $ magic.  :-\

Was I the only one who feared the worst? Again the NCAA snubs Texas and makes an easy route for Wesley to host the Texas/CNU/W&J winner. What can we say, its the penny pinching NCAA! :-\
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Rikki_Tikki_Tavi on November 12, 2006, 02:13:35 PM
Capts vs. W&J
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CNU85 on November 12, 2006, 02:17:33 PM
I'm happy witht the CNU draw.....but gotta admit.....it really sucks for UMHB and HSU. I just don't think that is right.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 12, 2006, 02:20:57 PM
It's a shame that being in Texas has such an impact. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BDTartan on November 12, 2006, 02:33:02 PM
No news on CMU yet?  It doesn't sound like we are going to see a first round matchup between the Tartans and the Prez.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CNU85 on November 12, 2006, 02:35:59 PM
CMU is at home against Milsaps
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 12, 2006, 02:36:42 PM
Llamaguy, nice going.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2006, 02:41:27 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 12, 2006, 02:20:23 AM
The NCAA uses Mappoint, not Mapquest, and uses the shortest possible distance setting, as always.
Apparently NOT
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 12, 2006, 02:43:20 PM
Bob.Gregg, I'm not sure what they use.  Why not match up CMU and W&J in the first round.  That's only a few miles apart.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2006, 02:46:06 PM
Why not?

Only a few miles.  Lower, MUCH lower expenses.

Larger, SIGNIFICANTLY larger income.

Maybe it's not all about the money...

I think they confused CNU & CMU....

Hey, they used the wrong map, maybe they grabbed the wrong initial...
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on November 12, 2006, 02:50:18 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on November 12, 2006, 02:36:42 PM
Llamaguy, nice going.

Unfortunately that was one prediction I was HOPING to be wrong on! >:(
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 12, 2006, 02:50:58 PM
My first round upset in the South Region (the visiting team winning) is Millsaps!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BDTartan on November 12, 2006, 02:51:42 PM
Oh well, where is Millsaps located?  Don't know much about them.  How much of a chance does CMU have of giving them a game?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 12, 2006, 02:53:19 PM
And talking about missed classtime!!!

Why isn't W&J driving from the Pittsburgh suburbs vs driving across 3 states from western Pennsylvania, across Maryland, to eastern Viriginia?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: exmajor on November 12, 2006, 02:55:04 PM
Millsaps is located in Jackson, MS and has about 1100 students.  They run the spread on offense and can be deadly with it and the defense is base, but has the advantage of a former DI coach behind it in Mike Dubose (former coach of Alabama).
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 12, 2006, 02:56:57 PM
Millsaps is in Jackson MS and is a US News and World Report Top Liberal Arts College.

They are 7-3 but have a 7 game win streak.

They are my #7 seed (but probably #6 by the committee) to CMU #5 seed.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CNU85 on November 12, 2006, 02:57:06 PM
Ralph....depending on the route taken...they might actually have to cross into West Virginia for a few miles!!  ;D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 12, 2006, 02:58:20 PM
Congratulations to all of the teams that are headed to the playoffs.  Good luck and enjoy the next few weeks.  They will be something you remember for a lifetime.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 12, 2006, 02:58:45 PM
Quote from: CNU85 on November 12, 2006, 02:57:06 PM
Ralph....depending on the route taken...they might actually have to cross into West Virginia for a few miles!!  ;D

Good!!!! Four states!!!  :D :D :D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2006, 02:59:55 PM
Now, here's my first dilemma of the day:

I'm a Mapquest kinda guy.

I've been chastized strongly for failing to use the NCAA Official mapping/distance software.

The NCAA didn't use it themselves.

Now, I've got to get to Newport News.  What to do?  What to do?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: exmajor on November 12, 2006, 03:00:30 PM
I'm confused, is Millsaps driving to Pittsburgh?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2006, 03:01:14 PM
Flying to Pittsburgh from Jackson.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BDTartan on November 12, 2006, 03:01:49 PM
Yeah, since when has the NCAA done anything that made sense?  Take the BCS for one.

Oh well, at least CMU's D will be facing a familar offense with the spread.  I believe 6 out of the last 7 teams they've played have run the spread.  We will see what happens next Saturday.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 12, 2006, 03:02:22 PM
exmajor, I believe the NCAA picks up the tab for all travel expenses.  If it is within 500 miles, I would bet on a bus trip.  If not, they are probably flying.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: roocru on November 12, 2006, 03:02:57 PM
See info from UMHB website below for game time.

Belton, TX-For the fifth time in the past six seasons, the University of Mary Hardin-Baylor football team has qualified for the NCAA Division III National Championships. But for the first time, the Crusaders will open the postseason at home with a First Round playoff game against American Southwest Conference rival Hardin-Simmons next Saturday at 12:00 PM.

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 12, 2006, 03:04:56 PM
BDTartan, I'd be more worried about the Millsaps D than the Millsaps O.  They have gotten quite a few points off of INT returns the last few weeks.  They were the difference makers against Trinity yesterday.

Yeah, they give up yards, but they make up for it with the turnovers!  Trinity actually outgained the Majors yesterday and still got throttled!

PS - Dear NCAA committee, you suck.  Use your rules or don't have them. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: exmajor on November 12, 2006, 03:06:03 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2006, 03:01:14 PM
Flying to Pittsburgh from Jackson.

I thought so, I guess they do not want to fly more than one team to Texas and so Millsaps heads to Pittsburgh to freeze.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Rikki_Tikki_Tavi on November 12, 2006, 03:09:04 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2006, 02:59:55 PM
Now, here's my first dilemma of the day:

I'm a Mapquest kinda guy.

I've been chastized strongly for failing to use the NCAA Official mapping/distance software.

The NCAA didn't use it themselves.

Now, I've got to get to Newport News.  What to do?  What to do?

Come on down Bob!! We will treat you with the utmost respect and gratitude! We treat our visitors well down yonda!! POMOCO is a great place to take in a game and the atmosphere is very enjoyable.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: xbcdad on November 12, 2006, 03:09:15 PM
Ron,
Speaking of Trinity, How many years has it been since they have been out of the playoff. Seems to me a home game in SA is a given. i'm guessing their unbroken playoff run is longer than my eagles.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BDTartan on November 12, 2006, 03:12:17 PM
While I respect your opinion Ron, I'm not worried about INTs against CMU since they only put the ball in the air when they absolutely positively have to and also when they think they can get the safeties creeping up.  I hope its a good game.  I wonder if CMU and Millsaps have ever played each other.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2006, 03:17:33 PM
Quote from: Rikki_Tikki_Tavi on November 12, 2006, 03:09:04 PM
Come on down Bob!! We will treat you with the utmost respect and gratitude! We treat our visitors well down yonda!! POMOCO is a great place to take in a game and the atmosphere is very enjoyable.

We're coming, Rikki.

Several questions:

1)  Small, twin-engine plane--fly into what airport?

2)  Distance from that airport to POMOCO?

3)  Pressbox facilities, size, quality, etc.?

We have District High School Semifinal game Friday night, then NCAA's Saturday....
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BDTartan on November 12, 2006, 03:21:34 PM
Nevermind my question, I found a program.  Millsaps and CMU have never met.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Rikki_Tikki_Tavi on November 12, 2006, 03:24:01 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2006, 03:17:33 PM
Quote from: Rikki_Tikki_Tavi on November 12, 2006, 03:09:04 PM
Come on down Bob!! We will treat you with the utmost respect and gratitude! We treat our visitors well down yonda!! POMOCO is a great place to take in a game and the atmosphere is very enjoyable.

We're coming, Rikki.

Several questions:

1)  Small, twin-engine plane--fly into what airport?

2)  Distance from that airport to POMOCO?

3)  Pressbox facilities, size, quality, etc.?

We have District High School Semifinal game Friday night, then NCAA's Saturday....

Small, twin-engine planes can fly into Newport News/Williamsburg International airport

Distance from said airport to CNU is 6.18 miles by
That is if you believe it!!! (since according to the main d3football page, its longer than 500 miles from millsaps to belton!!)

pressbox facilities I believe is more than adequate. I havent been in there, but ive seen the inside of it from the stands, there are two rows and its fairly long. very accomodating. Ill have to talk to a buddy of mine who works there to get more details for you.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Rikki_Tikki_Tavi on November 12, 2006, 03:24:55 PM
Apologies for the length of the link, still dont know how to write something and link what was written so the link doesnt take up the whole page
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 12, 2006, 03:30:44 PM
Rikki, use the BBC tag with the "world" icon over that long URL.

If you don't have that ability to "modify" your posts then let us know.

Thanks
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: patcummings on November 12, 2006, 03:33:52 PM
I really don't see the problem with CMU hosting Millsaps and W&J going to CNU.  Not talking about any other teams (Texas), I don't think there is an issue.  

Just because W&J is close to CMU does not mean that they should play each other.  40 miles or 250 miles is relatively the same to the committee.  250 versus 491 miles does not equate to the same thing.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 12, 2006, 03:36:37 PM
Quote from: patcummings on November 12, 2006, 03:33:52 PM
I really don't see the problem with CMU hosting Millsaps and W&J going to CNU.  Not talking about any other teams (Texas), I don't think there is an issue.  

Just because W&J is close to CMU does not mean that they should play each other.  40 miles or 250 miles is relatively the same to the committee.  250 versus 491 miles does not equate to the same thing.

Pat, when does W&J leave their campus to travel to Newport News?

If they were playing in Pittsburgh, would they leave at the same time and get there 3 hours earlier?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BDTartan on November 12, 2006, 03:38:55 PM
How is 40 miles and 250 miles similar??  Now W&J drives down the day before and sleeps in a hotel.  If they were playing at CMU then they could have slept in their own beds.  

To be fair, some of us weren't just talking about travel.  How many Millsaps fans are going to be able to come to Gesling.  Secondly, W&J at CMU would have renewed an old PAC rivalry.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: roocru on November 12, 2006, 03:43:37 PM
From the D3Football front page:

Why are the Texas teams playing each other in the first round? The NCAA says that although their approved mapping software for determining regional games (MSN Mappoint) spits out a 491.7 mile distance for Millsaps to get to Mary Hardin-Baylor, their mileage charts say the distance is over 500 miles. Therefore they're not allowed to bus Millsaps to UMHB. I think the discrepancy is something they are going to look into.  (next year)


Why the NCAA is using a different map than the one it tells its schools to use is not readily apparent.  ($$$$$$$)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2006, 03:45:16 PM
I'm going back to the Criteria/Human Factor issue that I raised last night.

For several weeks, W&J has been ranked regionally ahead of CNU.
I do not believe the criteria supported such a ranking, but there it was.

Now, I believe correctly, CNU is seeded ahead of W&J.
The Captains have a higher QOWI.
The Captains have a win over UMHB, a regionally-ranked opponent.
The Captains have a win over a common opponent to whom the Presidents lost (Salisbury).

I don't have a problem with that.  Straight by the criteria listed for everybody to read.

Here's the rub.
St. John's has the lowest QOWI index of the 1-loss Pool C teams.
St. John's has NO wins over regionally ranked opponents.

Franklin has the 6th best QOWI index of the group.
Franklin has a win over Wabash.

The criteria has Franklin above three teams in the Pool C group.

St. John's gets in.  The Human factor plays here.

Which is it, guys?  Good ol' boys, or criteria?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Rikki_Tikki_Tavi on November 12, 2006, 03:53:06 PM
Yeah Im stupid when it cames to that, I think you might have to spell it out for me step by step!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 12, 2006, 04:19:16 PM
Quote from: xbcdad on November 12, 2006, 03:09:15 PM
Ron,
Speaking of Trinity, How many years has it been since they have been out of the playoff. Seems to me a home game in SA is a given. i'm guessing their unbroken playoff run is longer than my eagles.

It was nine years straight, xbcdad.   I think it was the second-longest streak behind MUC.  Too many injuries cost them this year (1st string QB, RB, and one of their LBs), and a damned fine coaching job by DuBose at Millsaps. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Rikki_Tikki_Tavi on November 12, 2006, 04:24:38 PM
Bob its probably close to 15 minutes drive time from the airport to the campus. Best place to park is the University Place entrance off warwick blvd. If you want to mapquest it, its 900 Bland Blvd, Newport News, VA 23602 to 1 University Place, Newport News, VA 23606.

There's also a campus map on the cnu page that can tell you precisely where the football field is from where you enter and where to park. Heres the link to the campus map: http://about.cnu.edu/visitingCampus/campusMap.cfm
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CNU85 on November 12, 2006, 04:33:03 PM
If it takes 15 min to drive from the airport to CNU campus, then you're my grandmother......15 minutes max with bad traffic and hitting all the lights red.....nice little airport..very long runways...I've put down a few Cessnas there....not sure who the FBO is now....probably Flight International.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Rikki_Tikki_Tavi on November 12, 2006, 04:34:29 PM
Apparently Mr. CNU85 hasn't driven from there in quite a while!! GRANDPA!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BDTartan on November 12, 2006, 04:40:24 PM
Didn't know exactly where to post this, but this seems to be as good as place as any.

I notice that the Wesley and UWW brackets contain 8 of the nation's top 10 teams according to D3.  With only Capital standing in Mt. Union's way in their bracket and the east teams all knocking each other off in the Wilkes bracket it seems to me like Mt. Union has a much, much easier road to the Stagg Bowl than any other top 10 team.

I could be wrong, but it looks fishy to me with Wesley, HSU, and UMHB in the Wesley bracket and St. John's, UWW, Whitworth, and Central in the UWW bracket.

I realize travel implications have much to do with it, but that's like telling Mt. - "Not only are you the team everybody is gunning for, but you get help because of your location."
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 12, 2006, 04:47:21 PM
Quote from: BDTartan on November 12, 2006, 04:40:24 PM
Didn't know exactly where to post this, but this seems to be as good as place as any.

I notice that the Wesley and UWW brackets contain 8 of the nation's top 10 teams according to D3.  With only Capital standing in Mt. Union's way in their bracket and the east teams all knocking each other off in the Wilkes bracket it seems to me like Mt. Union has a much, much easier road to the Stagg Bowl than any other top 10 team.

I could be wrong, but it looks fishy to me with Wesley, HSU, and UMHB in the Wesley bracket and St. John's, UWW, Whitworth, and Central in the UWW bracket.

Good post BD!  +1!

The North has been dominated by MUC and it is tough for anyone else to make any noise.

The South has had 3 teams make the Stagg Bowl in this decade (Bridgewater, Trinity and UMHB).  The West has had 3 Champions under the new format, Pacific Lutheran, St John's and Linfield.

The East has had Rowan and not much else.

The breadth of those other 2 regions have made for more exposure in the Polls.  I think that is what you see.

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BDTartan on November 12, 2006, 04:52:57 PM
Thanks Ralph, I kind of wondered for a second if Mt. was getting some kind of "special treatment" but then I thought of the geography and other things.

I wonder if instead of worrying about travel expenses and criteria(which seems like it was an issue this year) the NCAA could take the pains to even out the bracket.  Why couldn't one of the Minn. or Wisc. teams get put in the North???  Or for that matter, flip it so that the winner of the North Region plays either the winner of the South or West?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 12, 2006, 04:56:44 PM
The seedings have been added to the brackets (http://www.d3football.com/playoffs/06/bracket.htm).  Once again, the NC-effing-A has found yet another way to screw a Texas team from hosting a first-round game.  #2 UMHB hosts #3 HSU.  This year's beneficiary is CNU.   Sigh.

Year in, year out, this crap happens.  It would have made PERFECT sense to send #7 Millsaps to #2 UMHB which is where they belonged by both the FA's rules and seeding.  But we're talking about the NCFA here, and sense never works when there are $ to be pinched. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Rikki_Tikki_Tavi on November 12, 2006, 05:07:30 PM
Just out of curiousity, since it did kill the cat, why did Hardin-Simmons get a higher seeding the *sigh* CNU?

Hope your not mad at CNU for being a beneficiary, Ron?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 12, 2006, 05:24:25 PM
My point, Rikki, is that if you are going to go to the effort of seeding teams, the higher seeded teams should be the ones gettting the home games in the first round.

This is 3 or 4 years running (or maybe more, I don't know) that some Texas team that should have hosted a first round game finds itself instead shipped to play at another Texas team just so the FA can save a few dollars.  This year's violation of the FA's supposed "fair play" purpose is the most egregious, since it had to make up some BS about "having a different mileage table" to justify what it did. 

And, quite frankly, seeing a two-loss team be the beneficiary of this stupidity wrankles further.  CNU should be at CMU, not Millsaps.  That's 4 and 5. 

Look at the other three brackets.  They are perfect (1 vs. 8, 2 and 7, 3 and 6, 4 and 5).  Only in the South is it screwed up.  And once again it's a team from Texas that has to suffer. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 12, 2006, 05:26:08 PM
I'm simply at a loss for words.   :-\ ??? :-\ ??? :-\ ???
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 12, 2006, 05:28:56 PM
+K for Ron.  I, too, shall now refer to the large, bloated, bureaucratic organization in Indianapolis as the NCFA.   8)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 12, 2006, 05:36:35 PM
I wish that we could get an official explanation from

* ***** *****
NCAA Director of Championships

of how his department messed up its procedures so grandly!

An apology posted on the D3football website would be a good start.

(Edited for reasons...His name is in the NCAA D3 Football Championships Handbook--RT)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 12, 2006, 05:37:48 PM
Surely you wouldn't be implicitly suggesting that all affected parties flood the email inbox of R. Wayne Burrow, NCAA Director of Championships with complaints, would you Ralph?   ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 12, 2006, 05:39:59 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on November 12, 2006, 05:37:48 PM
Surely you wouldn't be implicitly suggesting that all affected parties flood the email inbox of R. Wayne Burrow, NCAA Director of Championships with complaints, would you Ralph?   ;)

You're fast, Josh!  I couldn't even edit my post after a cooling off period of 15 secs!   :D ;D :D ;D 8)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 12, 2006, 05:41:33 PM
What were the "reasons" for your edit, Ralph?   ???
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 12, 2006, 05:44:31 PM
A phone number of an individual with initials RWB that might be of interest:  317/917-6493.

This website (http://www.ncaa.org/cgi-bin/staffmailform2.pl?id=wburrow@ncaa.org&name=R.+Wayne+Burrow) purports to send an e-mail to the same person.

I would suggest that anyone using either of these alternatives keep it polite and professional.  Simply calling the NCFA a bunch of arrogant tightwads with a huge bias against Texas schools is unlikely to result in anything changing, even if it is true.  Actually, no matter what you do it's unlikely anything will change, after all we are talking about the NCFA which operates by its own rules, except when they don't want to. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 12, 2006, 05:46:08 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on November 12, 2006, 05:41:33 PM
What were the "reasons" for your edit, Ralph?   ???

"Cooler" head?!?

Josh, How do I demand accountability from the NCAA?  They expect McMurry to abide by the principles of a voluntary association.

Perhaps a mass letter writing campaign is the thing.

Or the ASC Commissioner protesting his competency to execute the guidelines of the Handbook in the selection of the Champion by the approved guidelines.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CNU85 on November 12, 2006, 06:05:46 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger (BfB) on November 12, 2006, 05:24:25 PM
And, quite frankly, seeing a two-loss team be the beneficiary of this stupidity wrankles further.  CNU should be at CMU, not Millsaps.  That's 4 and 5. 

Based on your thought process, which is based on the seeidngs (and remember these are d3football.com seedings...not the  NCAA....there are three beneficiaries...CNU, Milsaps, and W&J......since, if you go by seedings, the last two would have had to make the trip to Texas.

and we all know that region losses count, not out of region...and CNU is a 1 loss team in the region...including a W against UMHB.

I was thinking CNU would have to travel to Texas...which in my mind would have been wrong for reasons stated in earlier posts. I think there are many more variables considered than any of us are even considering. Why did W&L go to the Wilkes bracket? why not put CMU in that bracket and send W&L to CNU.

Also, if you stick with the seedings, that would have meant 2 flights to Texas, and the NCFA does not hide the fact that travel $$$ is a consideration in pairings. I say it's not fair to the Texas teams, yet kudos for the NCFA for keeping d3 sports what it is....non-scholarship athletes and being fiscally responsible. There's not much TV revenue out there for d3 football.

So - be mad for the short hand the Texas teams have been given, but don't dare say anyone is a "beneficiary". CNU deserves a home game.....

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CNU85 on November 12, 2006, 06:12:55 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2006, 03:17:33 PM

We're coming, Rikki.
Several questions:

3)  Pressbox facilities, size, quality, etc.?

Bob - I would be surprised if you don't find the facilities one of the best, if not THE best, D3 facilities you have ever been in. Let me know after this week. The coaches in the box will be spoiled as well. I'm sure you've been to many, so I'll be curious to hear your thoughts and opinions.

Oh - and if you're in the box...stick your head out and look in the second to last row...50 yd line and say hi!!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CNU85 on November 12, 2006, 06:14:31 PM
what can I look for from W&J as a fan watching the game......speed, size, key players, offensively oriented, D? both? run, pass? etc.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 12, 2006, 06:19:11 PM
Quote from: CNU85 on November 12, 2006, 06:05:46 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger (BfB) on November 12, 2006, 05:24:25 PM
And, quite frankly, seeing a two-loss team be the beneficiary of this stupidity wrankles further.  CNU should be at CMU, not Millsaps.  That's 4 and 5. 

Based on your thought process, which is based on the seeidngs (and remember these are d3football.com seedings...not the  NCAA....there are three beneficiaries...CNU, Milsaps, and W&J......since, if you go by seedings, the last two would have had to make the trip to Texas.

and we all know that region losses count, not out of region...and CNU is a 1 loss team in the region...including a W against UMHB.

I was thinking CNU would have to travel to Texas...which in my mind would have been wrong for reasons stated in earlier posts. I think there are many more variables considered than any of us are even considering. Why did W&L go to the Wilkes bracket? why not put CMU in that bracket and send W&L to CNU.

Also, if you stick with the seedings, that would have meant 2 flights to Texas, and the NCFA does not hide the fact that travel $$$ is a consideration in pairings. I say it's not fair to the Texas teams, yet kudos for the NCFA for keeping d3 sports what it is....non-scholarship athletes and being fiscally responsible. There's not much TV revenue out there for d3 football.

So - be mad for the short hand the Texas teams have been given, but don't dare say anyone is a "beneficiary". CNU deserves a home game.....

Pat Coleman says these are the official NCAA rankings (http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=4935.9).
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 12, 2006, 06:59:42 PM
Quote from: CNU85 on November 12, 2006, 06:05:46 PM

So - be mad for the short hand the Texas teams have been given, but don't dare say anyone is a "beneficiary". CNU deserves a home game.....


Nope.  You lost two games (one to a very mediocre team), the NCAA seeded you fifth, both of which means you are getting a home game you don't deserve.   Enjoy it. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 12, 2006, 07:15:51 PM
I think that we should just have a permanent "Texas Sub-bracket Championship" trophy named for some D3 Luminary.
;D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CNU85 on November 12, 2006, 07:27:03 PM
we lost 1 region game....and beat the ASC champion

and I will enjoy it...thanks!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CNU85 on November 12, 2006, 07:29:55 PM
Ralph,

I thought the NCAA didn't rank or "seed " the teams until the semifinals...??
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 12, 2006, 07:42:56 PM
Quote from: CNU85 on November 12, 2006, 07:29:55 PM
Ralph,

I thought the NCAA didn't rank or "seed " the teams until the semifinals...??

According to Pat, those are.

I wonder if he got a copy of the Final Regional Rankings that were used in the Seeding of the South Region.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 12, 2006, 07:49:44 PM
The NCAA seeds this bracket every year. We always have the seedings on our bracket. They do not release them to TV.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Toby Taff on November 12, 2006, 07:53:11 PM
Ralph,

For the texas sub-bracket trophy I recommend a big gold cow patty trophy that has "Texsa Sub-Bracket Champ" engraved on it.  I twould be symbolic of the DooDoo heaped on us year after year. ;D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 12, 2006, 08:11:43 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 12, 2006, 07:15:51 PM
I think that we should just have a permanent "Texas Sub-bracket Championship" trophy named for some D3 Luminary.
;D

Maybe the R. Wayne Burrow Trophy, Ralph?   :)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Zmotion10 out on 2 on November 12, 2006, 09:38:35 PM
Quote from: mhb8904 on November 12, 2006, 07:53:11 PM
Ralph,

For the texas sub-bracket trophy I recommend a big gold cow patty trophy that has "Texsa Sub-Bracket Champ" engraved on it.  I twould be symbolic of the DooDoo heaped on us year after year. ;D

+1  That is great!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Rikki_Tikki_Tavi on November 12, 2006, 10:18:15 PM
Damn I didnt mean to start a pissing contest!!

I totally agree CNU lost to, well, maybe an average team, and I do agree that its unjust that the NCAA paired up teams based on travel, but what can you do except voice your opposition to it. For example, a women's soccer coach told the NCAA that they were a bunch of explatives for matching up his team against the same team they opened up with in the NCAA last year and its a team that they play yearly!! Its Division III and I cant imagine or count the number of times Ive seen this in the past . I think it sucks for the texas schools and I would be pissy too!! But what can we do about it now is all Im pointing out. Unfortunately, nothing, we as fans of our respective schools have to go out and cheer on our team no matter the opponent. Believe me, as a diehard CNU fan, I was for sure banking on listening to the game on the radio as the Captains traveled to HSU (had they sent them to UMHB, I think I may have boycotted it!). But the fact of the matter is, this is the way they put the brackets together and we just, unfortunately, have to deal with the hand that's dealt.

Man that's cliche, I apologize, I will not step down off my soapbox!!

Believe me fellas, I certainly enjoy reading every post from the well-knowns and respect everything that you all have to say about division 3 football. This is my first year posting, but I visited the site in the past. You guys and Pat and everyone associated with this site are top of the line.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: patcummings on November 12, 2006, 10:32:25 PM
I really don't know what everyone is all upset about.

I mean - the brackets are never perfect. 

The Texas teams play one week ahead of time if form holds.  If both teams were that solid, they would have won in week one and gotten to the game that we will get one week early. 

The system is not perfect and is selected by humans...and I think we have some significant benefits over our D1 friends.

Oh - and in reference to something someone said previously, the committee does not concoct pairings in order to restore old PAC rivalries.  Now THAT would be silly.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 12, 2006, 10:40:52 PM
Quote from: patcummings on November 12, 2006, 10:32:25 PM
I really don't know what everyone is all upset about.

I mean - the brackets are never perfect. 

The Texas teams play one week ahead of time if form holds.  If both teams were that solid, they would have won in week one and gotten to the game that we will get one week early.  

The system is not perfect and is selected by humans...and I think we have some significant benefits over our D1 friends.

Oh - and in reference to something someone said previously, the committee does not concoct pairings in order to restore old PAC rivalries.  Now THAT would be silly.

This is the list of the Pool C teams and when they might meet their "Pool A" conference mate.   There is separation for the other conferences besides the ASC.




Conference     Pool A bid           Pool C bid           Round
ASCS#2 UMHBS#3 HSU1st Round
CCIWN#6 N. CentralN#3 WheatonRegional Finals
Empire 8E#2 SpringfieldE#3 St John Fisher2nd Round
LibertyE#6 UnionE#5 HobartRegional Finals
MIACW#5 BethelW#7 St John's Regional Finals
OACN#1 Mt UnionN#2 CapitalRegional Finals
WIACW#1 UW-WW#4 UW-LC2nd Round

Respectfully Pat, do you seriously think that you could get away with that comment (in italics) on the Empire 8, OAC, CCIW, WIAC, MIAC or Liberty League boards?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 12, 2006, 10:42:58 PM
Quote from: patcummings on November 12, 2006, 10:32:25 PM
I really don't know what everyone is all upset about.

I mean - the brackets are never perfect. 

The Texas teams play one week ahead of time if form holds.  If both teams were that solid, they would have won in week one and gotten to the game that we will get one week early. 

Well, Pat, if one of your teams was impacted every stinking year due to a fluke in geography and the distribution of Division III teams, you might be more sympathetic.   If the teams play enough to get a top-four seed, the players deserve the chance to play an opponent before their home fans.  The home fans deserve the chance to see their team in the playoffs.   I have no problem if one team is a 3 and another a 6.  But that hasn't happened in recent memory. 

Let's just match up MUC and UW-W in the first round next year.  Everyone knows that it's the game we'll get in the end anyway.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BDTartan on November 12, 2006, 11:02:18 PM
patcummings, I was referring to W&J/CMU as an old PAC rivalry because it would be a better money maker!!!  Teams are only forty miles apart and former rivals.................
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 12, 2006, 11:03:25 PM
The income potential of the D-III football playoffs is pretty small, in all honesty.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: billybaroo on November 12, 2006, 11:11:59 PM
Pat, are yall gonna do the play off capsules again this year? Not being pushy I know the teams where just announced just wondering?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 12, 2006, 11:16:23 PM
You bet. Usually takes us a few days to compile, though.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BDTartan on November 12, 2006, 11:17:51 PM
I understand what you're saying Pat, but you gotta figure they'd make a little more on W&J at CMU instead of Millsaps.  I just wonder how many Millsaps folks are going to make the trip to frigid Pittsburgh.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 12, 2006, 11:21:11 PM
Pat

How much of the gait does the ncaa actually get from each game?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 12, 2006, 11:24:13 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger (BfB) on November 12, 2006, 10:42:58 PM
Quote from: patcummings on November 12, 2006, 10:32:25 PM
I really don't know what everyone is all upset about.

I mean - the brackets are never perfect. 

The Texas teams play one week ahead of time if form holds.  If both teams were that solid, they would have won in week one and gotten to the game that we will get one week early. 

Well, Pat, if one of your teams was impacted every stinking year due to a fluke in geography and the distribution of Division III teams, you might be more sympathetic.   If the teams play enough to get a top-four seed, the players deserve the chance to play an opponent before their home fans.  The home fans deserve the chance to see their team in the playoffs.   I have no problem if one team is a 3 and another a 6.  But that hasn't happened in recent memory. 

Let's just match up MUC and UW-W in the first round next year.  Everyone knows that it's the game we'll get in the end anyway.
Ron has a very good point.  The top 4 seeds should expect a home game in an 8-team region.  I have no problem with the bottom half of the bracket being sent anywhere.

D3 boasts about the emphasis on the student-athlete and the campus experience.

McMurry dropped its mascot, just so we could continue to vie for the experience of hosting a playoff game.

I believe that there were 3 games that were wrongly bracketed.

UMHB should have gotten Millsaps by bus (a great ASC/SCAC matchup).
HSU, as the #3, should have gotten a W&L.  The winner (HSU?) could go to UMHB for the South Region Southern semis.
#4 CMU should have played nearby W&J, a great game for the student bodies of both institutions.  (How many alums are there in the Pittsburgh area?)
I know that throws #5 CNU into Wesley, but the bottom half of the bracket gets moved around.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 12, 2006, 11:27:46 PM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on November 12, 2006, 11:21:11 PM
Pat

How much of the gait does the ncaa actually get from each game?

The NCAA gets 100% of it, I believe, but pays for the transportation and lodging for the visiting school, for a per diem for both teams, etc.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BDTartan on November 12, 2006, 11:28:56 PM
I agreed with you Ralph, which was my point for making more money off of the first game at Gesling.  Oh well, what's been done can't be undone.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CNU85 on November 13, 2006, 09:08:13 AM
I'm interested in viewpoints on Pool A vs Pool C........does anyone think that a Pool C team should be seeded higher than a Pool A. the point of view would be that a Pool A team is a conference Champion...even though some are 7-3.....should a 9-1 Pool C team get a home game over a conference Champion......I'm not looking at any specific teams or scenarios.....just in principal....
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 13, 2006, 09:11:10 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 12, 2006, 11:03:25 PM
The income potential of the D-III football playoffs is pretty small, in all honesty.

While it is small, the W&J/CMU matchup would have brought in MORE and shelled out LESS.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 13, 2006, 09:12:18 AM
CNU85, I think the seedings should be based on how good the teams are thought to be by the committee.  A Pool C from the OAC or ASC is probably better than most of the teams in the playoffs.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 13, 2006, 10:57:12 AM
Quote from: CNU85 on November 13, 2006, 09:08:13 AM
I'm interested in viewpoints on Pool A vs Pool C........does anyone think that a Pool C team should be seeded higher than a Pool A. the point of view would be that a Pool A team is a conference Champion...even though some are 7-3.....should a 9-1 Pool C team get a home game over a conference Champion......I'm not looking at any specific teams or scenarios.....just in principal....

Ponder the D-I basketball tournament and where the champions of conferences are compared to at-large teams from power conferences. I think this is done ther right way.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Rick Akins on November 13, 2006, 12:55:04 PM
Ralph, Ron and all other people of common sense on this board and the rest of this website--including  the publisher who came up with the perfect and logical south bracket.  You need to read the WEAK quote from Wayne Burrows  of the NCAA in today's Temple Telegram.  Ralph, thanks for pointing out somewhere on here how very likely it is the SOUTH bracket may end up with MORE flights with this stupid decision that  could have been easily avoided with Millsaps to UMHB and some other lower seeded team to HSU.  I also agree with you Ron the Pat Cummings' argument was really really pitiful--any other area would be more angry than we are--we are just resigned to it.  But I believe this "takes the Cake." THEY DON'T EVEN FOLLOW THEIR OWN RULES!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 13, 2006, 12:59:04 PM
Maybe you could punch in the quote for us. The Daily Telegram's Web site doesn't print the whole story.

The paper also uses the wrong Top 25 poll. :)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CNU85 on November 13, 2006, 01:04:06 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 13, 2006, 10:57:12 AM
Quote from: CNU85 on November 13, 2006, 09:08:13 AM
I'm interested in viewpoints on Pool A vs Pool C........does anyone think that a Pool C team should be seeded higher than a Pool A. the point of view would be that a Pool A team is a conference Champion...even though some are 7-3.....should a 9-1 Pool C team get a home game over a conference Champion......I'm not looking at any specific teams or scenarios.....just in principal....

Ponder the D-I basketball tournament and where the champions of conferences are compared to at-large teams from power conferences. I think this is done ther right way.

Good points Pat. It's good to hear various opinions. I tend to agree with Pool C teams of power conferences getting higher seeds of Pool A teams from less competitive conferences. Locally, in HS football the second team in the district received a higher seed than the champion and are seeded #1 in the region playoffs...now that doesn't make sense to me at all. That would be similar to ranking HSU ahead of UMHB. The HS situation is what made me pose the question about Pool C and A teams. It gets complicated when you try to fit 34 teams into a 32 team field. For the first time, I tried to predict the field of 32....I missed it by 2...I had Cortland St and Franklin.

Pat...great job on Sunday. You need more air time!!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CNU85 on November 13, 2006, 01:04:56 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 13, 2006, 09:11:10 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 12, 2006, 11:03:25 PM
The income potential of the D-III football playoffs is pretty small, in all honesty.

While it is small, the W&J/CMU matchup would have brought in MORE and shelled out LESS.

as would an in-state W&L/CNU matchup.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 13, 2006, 01:07:03 PM
Thanks. I always wish the show were longer -- shoot, it usually takes me the first segment to feel comfortable with the cameras and I wouldn't mind a third segment where we can talk more about the teams.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CNU85 on November 13, 2006, 01:10:06 PM
When I started watching the segment, I saw d3 highlights and was wnodering, "how do we get CNU highlights on TV". Then the answer became very obvious.....get a bracket called the CNU bracket!!!  ;D
Maybe someday.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Rick Akins on November 13, 2006, 01:18:47 PM
Pat, I agree--they definitely use the wrong poll!!  Here is the quote from Mr. Burrows--"It's a tough thing to have to put conference members against each other," NCAA  director of championships  Wayne Burrows said.  "If Trinity had gotten in, it would have created some flexibility in the brackets."  Like I said, WEAK!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 13, 2006, 02:00:22 PM
Weak and completely oblivious to the arguement.  Mr. Burrows would do well to stop giving quotes since he obviously is ignorant to his own stated policies and procedures--and thereby loses even more credibility with every word.

Of course, when was the last time we could accuse the AA of being a credible organization?

For the record and for the un-initiated, Trinity getting in made no difference one way or the other.  One team still had to fly to Texas, even with two teams (presumably Trinity and HSU) matched up against one another in the first round. 

I think this is an issue the new conference leadership needs to put on their front burner.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Toby Taff on November 13, 2006, 02:02:49 PM
Just so we all know that the AA is consistent even in causing fan aggrevation... Abilene Christian University plays West Texas A&M, a conference opponent they beat during the regular season, at WTA&M in the first round of the D2 playoffs.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CNU85 on November 13, 2006, 02:03:34 PM
Consistent in the way they treat Texas teams.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 13, 2006, 02:21:28 PM
Quote from: CNU85 on November 13, 2006, 01:10:06 PM
When I started watching the segment, I saw d3 highlights and was wnodering, "how do we get CNU highlights on TV". Then the answer became very obvious.....get a bracket called the CNU bracket!!!  ;D
Maybe someday.

Brilliant application of your fine CNU education!  :D ;D :D ;D ;) :) 8)

Big-time smiling laugh!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CNU85 on November 13, 2006, 02:22:26 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 13, 2006, 02:21:28 PM
Quote from: CNU85 on November 13, 2006, 01:10:06 PM
When I started watching the segment, I saw d3 highlights and was wnodering, "how do we get CNU highlights on TV". Then the answer became very obvious.....get a bracket called the CNU bracket!!!  ;D
Maybe someday.

Brilliant application of your fine CNU education!  :D ;D :D ;D ;) :) 8)

Big-time smiling laugh!

I'm as sharp as a beer commercial...Brilliant!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 13, 2006, 02:22:54 PM
Quote from: mhb8904 on November 13, 2006, 02:02:49 PM
Just so we all know that the AA is consistent even in causing fan aggrevation... Abilene Christian University plays West Texas A&M, a conference opponent they beat during the regular season, at WTA&M in the first round of the D2 playoffs.

We have a Texas Sub-region in D2.  Midwestern State also made D2.

(There are no AQ's in the 24 team D2 playoffs.)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CNU85 on November 13, 2006, 02:24:07 PM
Actually Ralph, If I relied solely on my CNU (CNC at the time) education I'd still be wondering how....my grad work from another fine VA institution  was put to the test.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 13, 2006, 03:29:26 PM
Quote from: RWayneBurrows on November 13, 2006, 01:18:47 PM
"It's a tough thing to have to put conference members against each other. If Trinity had gotten in, it would have created some flexibility in the brackets."

AKA since Trinity, UMHB, HSU would have been seeded 2-3-4 it would have been "not only can we screw HSU in the first round, but then we can screw one of the first-round winners out of a deserved home game in the second round.  Not only that but it wouldn't have been nearly so obvious as what we ended up doing!!"
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Rick Akins on November 14, 2006, 08:53:23 AM
Eric Drennan has a great column in today's Temple Daily Telegram about the ncaa and the south bracket--with several more inane, asinine and nonsensical quotes from Mr. Burrows  of the ncaa.  I have emailed Eric and asked him to send it to Pat@d3football.com.  I hope he will.  Only the first part of the column is on their website.  Believe me, the quotes only get  better.   He makes absolutely no sense!!  The ASC at some point has to at least try to hold them accountable to their own rules.  This year was a perfect time to bring some fairness to Texas,  USING THEIR OWN CRITERIA, and they absolutely blew it big time--either out of malice or more likely ignorance.  Ralph Turner has pointed out on the Daily Dose that there will very likely be more flights  this year with this south bracket than the one proposed by d3 football.com.  Will the ncaa consider hiring the d3football.com experts to construct the brackets next year since you obviously understand their rules better than the bureaucrats and the committee? I am only half kidding!!

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 14, 2006, 09:24:00 AM
What I think actually happened in Bracketgate 2006 is that the NCAA's Championship Committee administrative flunkie for D3 (my cynical side says that we in D3 get the administrative aides that have the IQ's lower than a D-1 scholarship football player while a D3 grad runs the NFL) did not run thru all of the implications of the "switch to msn.mappoint.com" rules change.  There was a blurb in the Athletic Administrators monthly newsletter in September (?) about permitting qualifying "200-mile in-region" games under the old system this year.

I will bet that the "500-mile mappoint.com shortest distance" flaw may be in all of the instruction booklets in all D3 championship packets (Soccer Volleyball, basketball, baseball, etc.), and we posters (especially Pat Coleman's eagle-eyes) just brought it to light in our discussions.  When his projections of Millsaps bussing to UMHB did not occur, that is when the administrative flaw became apparent.

The D1 and D2 NCAA handbooks have an upper midlevel administrator over the D1 and D2 Football Championships.  C Wayne Burrow, "NCAA Director of Championships", who probably had no idea that some junior underling in the D3 section of the NCAA had messed up, did not comprehend of the nature or the consequences of this administrative SNAFU.

If he had said that we had a SNAFU, then it would have just gone away.

(SNAFU just seems to be the right term for this.  You World War II historians will remember the origin of "Situation Normal--All Fouled Up" ). ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 14, 2006, 09:48:12 AM
Good post, Ralph.  +K for you since someone seems to be dinging people who point out the FA's not perfect. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Toby Taff on November 14, 2006, 09:53:04 AM
Ron,

There's a 2A poster lurking about... get a rope ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Rick Akins on November 14, 2006, 10:14:24 AM
Ralph:   Once again you have probably figured out what happened--a mess up by a clerk-SNAFU as you said.   Then Mr. Burrow needs to step up and say we messed up and apologize.  If you read the Telegram article I referred to earlier you will see he did nothing of the sort.  Just a bunch of garbage about  8 hour vs. 9 hour bus rides and other cover my tail junk. I am a big boy--if they will admit it, I will shut up for this year.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CNU85 on November 14, 2006, 10:36:11 AM
Being an outsider to the Texas issue.....it seems to happen every year. That is more than a SNAFU...it's a BOHICA!!!

Bend Over, Here It Comes Again!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 14, 2006, 03:04:51 PM
"To be the best you've got to beat the best."

That has never been more true if Mary Hardin-Baylor is to win the national title...

They would likely have to beat...

First Round - No. 6 Hardin-Simmons
Second Round - No. 20 Washington & Jefferson
Quarterfinals - No. 3 Wesley
Semifinals - No. 2 UW-Whitewater
Finals - No. 1 Mount Union

:o
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CNU85 on November 14, 2006, 03:50:42 PM
ahem.........you mean CNU, not W&J.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 14, 2006, 04:11:31 PM
Quote from: CNU85 on November 14, 2006, 03:50:42 PM
ahem.........you mean CNU, not W&J.


Ahem .... no, he doesn't   ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 14, 2006, 05:37:33 PM
Quote from: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 14, 2006, 03:04:51 PM
"To be the best you've got to beat the best."

That has never been more true (emphasis added/pc) if Mary Hardin-Baylor is to win the national title...

They would likely have to beat...

First Round - No. 6 Hardin-Simmons
Second Round - No. 20 Washington & Jefferson
Quarterfinals - No. 3 Wesley
Semifinals - No. 2 UW-Whitewater
Finals - No. 1 Mount Union

A breeze compared to 2004:

at No. 7 Trinity (Texas) #    W 32-13       
at No. 3 Hardin-Simmons #    W 42-28       
at No. 5 Washington and Jefferson #    W 52-16       
at No. 1 Mount Union #    W 38-35       
vs. No. 2 Linfield # Salem, Va.    L 28-21       
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BDTartan on November 14, 2006, 05:53:18 PM
Wow, seems like a tough road.  Flip it once and check out how much easier it is for Mt. Union.  Only one top 10 team in their half of the bracket and that's Capital who they whupped earlier this season.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 14, 2006, 06:10:17 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 14, 2006, 05:37:33 PM
Quote from: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 14, 2006, 03:04:51 PM
"To be the best you've got to beat the best."

That has never been more true (emphasis added/pc) if Mary Hardin-Baylor is to win the national title...

They would likely have to beat...

First Round - No. 6 Hardin-Simmons
Second Round - No. 20 Washington & Jefferson
Quarterfinals - No. 3 Wesley
Semifinals - No. 2 UW-Whitewater
Finals - No. 1 Mount Union

A breeze compared to 2004:

at No. 7 Trinity (Texas) #    W 32-13       
at No. 3 Hardin-Simmons #    W 42-28       
at No. 5 Washington and Jefferson #    W 52-16       
at No. 1 Mount Union #    W 38-35       
vs. No. 2 Linfield # Salem, Va.    L 28-21       

Good call!

Perhaps I thought W&J went 10-0 like I projected, and moved up to No. 4 or 5, after their preseason ranking of No. 15?

Had that been the case, then...

Quote"To be the best you've got to beat the best."

That has never been more true if Mary Hardin-Baylor is to win the national title...

They would likely have to beat...

First Round - No. 6 Hardin-Simmons
Second Round - No. 5 (change made/mb) Washington & Jefferson
Quarterfinals - No. 3 Wesley
Semifinals - No. 2 UW-Whitewater
Finals - No. 1 Mount Union

:o

;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 14, 2006, 06:36:57 PM
UMHB dominated Trinity and W&J in 2004, and jumped out to a big lead against HSU.  They certainly held there own that year.  I think HSU is a very tough game to start the playoffs, but they would have to play eventually.  The winner of that game I expect to win the 2nd round.  Wesley is the team to beat in our region.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 15, 2006, 03:33:39 PM
Bob Gregg and I had this discussion on the Pres AC board.  I have re-copied it for readers here.


Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 15, 2006, 12:12:25 PM
South,

While I would have enjoyed the W&J/CMU game, it should NOT have been scheduled.  Had the NCAA not fouled up the mileage situation, W&J SHOULD have been flying to HSU for the first round.

The Mellons are the four seed in the bracket.  Christopher Newport is the five seed and SHOULD be playing at Carnegie-Mellon.  W&J, as the six seed should be at #3 HSU.  Trinity should host Millsaps and W&L/Dickinson at Wesley.

The Regional Rankings, for several weeks, disregarded the published criteria, listing W&J ahead of CNU.

The Captains finished with the same in-region record as the Presidents.  They finished with a higher QOWI index.  They finished with a win against a regionally-ranked opponent (UMHB).  They finished with a win against a common opponent (Salisbury) that the Presidents lost to.

The National Committee, correctly, seeded CNU 5th, ahead of the Presidents.  The ONLY reason W&J is playing CNU and not HSU is Mileage-Gate '06.

CMU/W&J would have been fun.  It would have drawn many more people than Millsaps/CMU.  It would have generated additional income and reduced expenses.  It also would have added to Bracket-Gate '06.

While I would rather be sleeping in my own bed Friday night sted a hotel room somewhere in northern Virginia on my way to Newport News, that would have opened the door to yet another charge of dereliction of duty against the oft-maligned NCAA.

No, Joe's article, while it sounds good, comes up short on the facts of the matter.

+1 karma, bob!  Excellent discussion of the situation.

As the recipient of NCAA Bracket-logic, I would have conceded reverse bracket logic in a CMU-W&J game for these reasons.

#3 HSU is either the 2nd or the 3rd team selected in Pool C. (Capital, then either UW-L or HSU.  HSU beat also UW-SP, and every bit as convincingly as UW-L.)
#4 CMU gets a home game.
#5 CNU has to go on the road.  Strict bracketing should send them to CMU, where I believe they would have won.  Instead, they are the beneficiary of HSU's mis-fortune.
#6  W&J should go on the road.  A quick trip into CMU minimizes lost classtime and gets the student-athletes back to Washington, PA by 6pm Sat night.  That also saves money!
#7  Millsaps can be rightly bussed to UMHB.

For all of the clamoring by some CNU fans, they are the big winners in this one.  I think that they got the easiest draw possible (#6 W&J).  They get (HSU's) home game.  And, as a #4/#5-type seed, they get on the other side of the bracket from Wesley!

The committee could have just looked at Pat's bracket on the projections page, said that is close enough to what they saw in the numbers, used that as the bracket and be done with it, and few woudl have known any difference.  (If the Millsaps-to-UMHB mileage data had been present for the selection committee's use, I wonder if we might not have seen it happen.)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 15, 2006, 04:58:55 PM
Ralph, I remember you saying at least 10,000 times that geography trumps everything in the first round.  I'm suspicious of the committee's decisions.  Also, I had asked earlier who is on the committee.  Does anyone know?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 15, 2006, 05:05:47 PM
I got this off of the NCAA website:

AD   Al Dorenkamp
  Central College (Iowa)   Iowa Intercol. Athletic Conf. SEP 2008 

  III       AD   Charles S. Harris
  Averett University   USA South Athletic Conference SEP 2007 


  III       CCD, Associate AD / Head Football Coach   Norman Eash
  Illinois Wesleyan University   College Conference of Illinois & Wisconsin SEP 2010 


  III       Commissioner   Kenneth Andrews
  Middle Atlantic States Collegiate Athletic Corp.   Middle Atlantic States Collegiate Athletic Corp. SEP 2008 


  III       Director of Men's Athletics, Compliance Director   Dick Kaiser
  Defiance College   Heartland Collegiate Athletic Conference SEP 2009 


  III       Head Coach Football   Steve Mohr
  Trinity University (Texas)   Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference SEP 2009 


  III       Head Football Coach   Michael C. Maynard
  University of Redlands   Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conf. SEP 2010 


  III       Head Football Coach   Michael DeLong
  Springfield College   New England Women's & Men's Athletic Conference SEP 2010 

Is this the committee that seeded and set the playoffs?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 15, 2006, 05:10:39 PM
You beat me to the punch, Bill.  Interesting to note who the two South Region representatives are, and where they happen to be from....
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CNU85 on November 15, 2006, 05:16:35 PM
You could look at it a bunch of ways......the 2 south region guys could've gone either way.....they could've been homeboys and watched out for their own conference...or they could've tried to stick it to their rivals......or maybe the AU guy was a homoeboy and the Trinity guy stuck it to the other 2 TX teams.....who knows? Maybe they duked it out!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 15, 2006, 05:38:36 PM
Maybe they should have used some common sense and followed their own guidelines! ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 15, 2006, 05:50:50 PM
BINGO--then it's a moot question.   :)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Rikki_Tikki_Tavi on November 15, 2006, 07:58:13 PM
Common sense!! That would be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to easy in this instance!! Dont you think!?!?  ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 15, 2006, 08:39:22 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on November 15, 2006, 05:05:47 PM
I got this off of the NCAA website:

AD   Al Dorenkamp
  Central College (Iowa)   Iowa Intercol. Athletic Conf. SEP 2008 

  III       AD   Charles S. Harris
  Averett University   USA South Athletic Conference SEP 2007 


  III       CCD, Associate AD / Head Football Coach   Norman Eash
  Illinois Wesleyan University   College Conference of Illinois & Wisconsin SEP 2010 


  III       Commissioner   Kenneth Andrews
  Middle Atlantic States Collegiate Athletic Corp.   Middle Atlantic States Collegiate Athletic Corp. SEP 2008 


  III       Director of Men's Athletics, Compliance Director   Dick Kaiser
  Defiance College   Heartland Collegiate Athletic Conference SEP 2009 


  III       Head Coach Football   Steve Mohr
  Trinity University (Texas)   Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference SEP 2009 


  III       Head Football Coach   Michael C. Maynard
  University of Redlands   Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conf. SEP 2010 


  III       Head Football Coach   Michael DeLong
  Springfield College   New England Women's & Men's Athletic Conference SEP 2010 

Is this the committee that seeded and set the playoffs?

Wait a second...

They are the committee!  I am not going to put that on them!  The NCAA has a large bureaucracy and administrative staff that is responsible for keeping the paperwork in line and in accordance with NCAA policy!  This is a large bureaucratic entity.  That is what they should excel at!  Paperwork and processes!

I don't expect those people (the coaches and administrators on the committee)  to have double-checked whether the database for mileage had been corrected from the previous to the msn.mappoint.com "shortest distance"  standard.  You have some administrative type writing in her/his family Christmas letter that s/he has this big job at the NCAA!  S/he is the one responsilbe for giving bad information to the committee members.

To name Steve Mohr (for example) as not executing his responsibilites in a professional fashion is just not right!  I am more inclined to think that Coach Mohr is angry at the SNAFU that occurred on his watch!  How many times have you sat on a big board meeting and wondered if the info in the board book was completely accurate?  That gives you a bad feeling in the pit of your stomach!

I am angry that Commisioner Burrow has not come out and said that the SNAFU resides in the D3 Championship Committee administrative team.

As I have said elsewhere, I will bet the administrative packets for every other D3 Championship Handbook and database were not corrected as well.  If some intern had his/her book (whether Field hockey or women's volleyball) corrected to the new mileage standard, then that intern needs a promotion! I just hope that the corrections are made in time for basketball! :-\
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: evacuee on November 16, 2006, 01:11:26 PM

Where is everyone from Carnegie Mellon?  Are they too smart to pay attention to football?  Man, I wish I were.  Then maybe I wouldn't have driven 400 miles in one day to watch my team get steamrolled by Millsaps last weekend. 

I really hope Millsaps wins.  That way no one will be tricked into thinking the wing-t is a good offense for college football.  I'm also a fan of the school and the conference. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Zmotion10 out on 2 on November 16, 2006, 01:28:15 PM
I love the wing-t!  Especially if they mix in a little single wing.

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CMURyan on November 16, 2006, 01:31:02 PM
BDTartan posts a lot (we're the CMU Tartans) and I follow along but don't get into the discussion too much.  We're not exactly a sports school, but there is still a fair amount of excitement regarding the game this weekend.

While I'm here, I'll make a point that I've wanted to make for a while.  CMU gets a bad rap on these boards because of the schedule.  We haven't played a tough schedule, but we've physically dominated every team we've played except for Wash U.  I listened to the broadcast of the Thiel game and the score doesn't indicate the one sidedness of it.  We controlled the ball and ate up clock for 3 and a half quarters.  A late two minute drill drive down 14 accounted for Thiel's only points.  Also, it hasn't been brought up anywhere that I've seen, but CMU not only is undefeated, but hasn't trailed a single minute all season.  I know that some of this is luck (who gets the ball first), but it's also indicative of how one sided the games have been (with the exception of Wash U, which was close the whole way).

As for the wing-t, I know that it is outdated by D1A standards where the linebackers are too fast, but CMU makes it work for D3.  It takes a strong O line, a bruising but quick fullback, and at least one fast wing back, all of which we have.  It isn't gimicky or anything like that.  It's all about ball control.  Keep the defense off the field, avoid turnovers and grind out yards.  Also works well in Western PA where the rainy and cold Octobers and Novembers can make passing tough.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 16, 2006, 02:20:40 PM
Quote from: CMURyan on November 16, 2006, 01:31:02 PM
BDTartan posts a lot....
Really?  We hadn't noticed.....j/k.  Glad to have him, and you, around.

Quote from: CMURyan on November 16, 2006, 01:31:02 PM
...We're not exactly a sports school, but there is still a fair amount of excitement regarding the game this weekend.
The rumored faculty walkout due to overemphasizing of football should be exciting...

Quote from: CMURyan on November 16, 2006, 01:31:02 PM
... As for the wing-t...works well in Western PA where the rainy and cold Octobers and Novembers can make passing tough.
That would explain CMU's nearly annual appearance in the D-III playoffs.


Quote from: CMURyan on November 16, 2006, 01:31:02 PM
...CMU not only is undefeated, but hasn't trailed a single minute all season.  I know that some of this is luck (who gets the ball first), but it's also indicative of how one sided the games have been (with the exception of Wash U, which was close the whole way).
THAT is an impressive point.

Here's one more impressive Mellon point for you...
CMU opponents have scored a combined 44 points in the first three quarters ALL season.  CMU has scored that many in EACH of the first three quarters.

SCORE BY QUARTERS     1st  2nd  3rd  4th  OT     Total
--------------------  ---  ---  ---  ---  ---      ---
Carnegie Mellon.....        62  106   44   72    3  -   287
Opponents...........        14   17    13   38    0  -    82
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 16, 2006, 02:36:05 PM
Common sense?  Right!

Anyway, I just got word (can't tell you where) that had Trinity won, the W&J/CMU game would have happened.

Trying to understand what that would have meant, but how's this:

#1  Wesley hosting # 8 Dickinson
#2  Trinity hosting #4 HSU
#3  UMHB hosting #6 CNU
#5  CMU hosting #7 W&J
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CMURyan on November 16, 2006, 02:40:51 PM
Yes, the faculty are up in arms about the rumors of the 10 year, $10 million contract extension that we're going to give Rich Lackner.  I know that we haven't made the playoffs in a while, but the athletic department does brag about having something like 30 straight years without a losing season. 

The stat that Bob mentioned more or less proves the point.  By the fourth quarter we almost always have the second string in, which is why the point differential isn't quite as ridiculous for that quarter.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 16, 2006, 02:44:09 PM
Ryan,

I post in jest, as you may or may not know.

My brother is a Mellon alum, back before they sold the bank.  Of course, being a "paying customer" we had to rob the bank to send him there....

In fact, I think the last losing season for CMU (1974) was when by brother was there.  I guess they needed that little extra scratch to push them over the top.

Seriously, good luck to the Tartans.  Stick around a while.

By the way, I believe the Presidents have several open dates down the road.  Perhaps Rich would be interested.  Ehhh, on second thought, he probably wouldn't.  Never was before.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CMURyan on November 16, 2006, 02:51:32 PM
Oh no...I got that...hence the contract comment.  But, the 30 straight non-losing seasons was the athletic department's claim to fame when I toured here (now a junior).
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: exmajor on November 16, 2006, 03:44:39 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 16, 2006, 02:20:40 PM

Here's one more impressive Mellon point for you...
CMU opponents have scored a combined 44 points in the first three quarters ALL season.  CMU has scored that many in EACH of the first three quarters.

SCORE BY QUARTERS     1st  2nd  3rd  4th  OT     Total
--------------------  ---  ---  ---  ---  ---      ---
Carnegie Mellon.....        62  106   44   72    3  -   287
Opponents...........        14   17    13   38    0  -    82


Just for comparison, here is the same stat for Millsaps:

SCORE BY QUARTERS     1st  2nd  3rd  4th    Total
--------------------  ---  ---  ---  ---      ---
Millsaps College....  117   57   71   85  -   330
Opponents...........   55   43   50   56  -   204
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 16, 2006, 05:50:03 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 16, 2006, 02:36:05 PM
Common sense?  Right!

Anyway, I just got word (can't tell you where) that had Trinity won, the W&J/CMU game would have happened.

Trying to understand what that would have meant, but how's this:

#1  Wesley hosting # 8 Dickinson
#2  Trinity hosting #4 HSU
#3  UMHB hosting #6 CNU
#5  CMU hosting #7 W&J

Here's what I think:  the committee had already pencilled in a "W" for Trinity - then when Millsaps won, they freaked out, figured that a little school in Bohunk, MS* had to be more than 500 miles from anyone, and went with their very poorly thought-out plan B.  These guys probably couldn't even find MS on a map. 

* - I don't equate Jackson to Bohunk, but we are talking about the NCAA.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Rick Akins on November 16, 2006, 06:11:22 PM
I agree, Ron about the presumed Trinity win. Plan B was very poorly thought out as we have all realized and commented--even if the ncaa has not acknowledged, or  worse, refuses to admit, its mistake.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 16, 2006, 06:20:49 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger (BfB) on November 16, 2006, 05:50:03 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 16, 2006, 02:36:05 PM
Common sense?  Right!

Anyway, I just got word (can't tell you where) that had Trinity won, the W&J/CMU game would have happened.

Trying to understand what that would have meant, but how's this:

#1  Wesley hosting # 8 Dickinson
#2  Trinity hosting #4 HSU
#3  UMHB hosting #6 CNU
#5  CMU hosting #7 W&J

Here's what I think:  the committee had already pencilled in a "W" for Trinity - then when Millsaps won, they freaked out, figured that a little school in Bohunk, MS* had to be more than 500 miles from anyone, and went with their very poorly thought-out plan B.  These guys probably couldn't even find MS on a map. 

* - I don't equate Jackson to Bohunk, but we are talking about the NCAA.

Ron, I do not think that you are not giving enough credit to Trinity Head Coach Mohr, who sits on the national committee.

I think that the problem lies with the database of Millsaps mileage.

If Millsaps can be bussed to Belton, then you can fly a lower seed to HSU.

Also, Keith makes very clear today in the ATN that the national committee did not share the final regional rankings with D3football!!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: K-Mack on November 16, 2006, 09:25:28 PM
You have to believe they looked at the matchups as they were seeded first and then intentionally changed it.

I don't see what's so unbelievable about them using the wrong mileage counter scenario.

That's the only thing that seems to make sense out of an otherwise nonsensical event.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 16, 2006, 09:36:35 PM
Keith, we don't think it's unbelievable.  We think it's unacceptable.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 16, 2006, 09:46:38 PM
Josh

The only way it gets changed is if one or more of the (hosed) coaches get on the committee..... And good luck with that. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 16, 2006, 09:54:22 PM
Just a point of clarification, PA.   :)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 16, 2006, 09:58:05 PM
 Right choice of words Josh!!! The committee definately FUMBLED
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: cnusfinest54 on November 16, 2006, 10:25:54 PM
Okay yeah I am a die hard CNU. But I just have a quick question that im sure to get a million answers to.  No one has doubted the fact that UMHB deserves a home game but everyone seems to have a problem with CNU getting a home game.  Now was I surprised that CNU got a home game YES. And yeah they didn't help themselves by losing to NCW but the fact of the matter still remains that a team they beat head to head is ranked higher than them in the playoffs. CNU's only other loss came against a pretty good Rowan team in week one. Both teams finished with identical regional records as well as identical overall marks with the only common opponent being each other, which CNU won. I just don't get the overall argument but maybe someone can take the time to enlighten me.  Now don't get me wrong I still think the Texas teams got the shaft and CNU has a very winnable first round match up. But if an 8-2 UMHB was ranked ahead of a 9-1 Hardin Simmons team for obvious reasons how come UMHB was ranked so far ahead of CNU.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: K-Mack on November 16, 2006, 11:17:00 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on November 16, 2006, 09:36:35 PM
Keith, we don't think it's unbelievable.  We think it's unacceptable.

Reason I used the word unbelievable is that people were coming up with all these complicated theories for what happened.

So I said "I don't see what's so unbelievable" about them just using the wrong mileage number and screwing it up from there.

Frankly, the more I look at it, it's just not that bad.

a) It happens every year. Par for the course doesn't make it right, but it should take away some of the initial shock that appears to be lingering for a fifth day now.
b) UMHB could very easily have been seeded behind CNU, possibly even as low as 4 or 5. A 2 seed and a home game is an awful nice reward for a two-loss season, even if No. 2 was against Whitewater.
c) As seeded, they would have met in the second round anyway.
d) It guarantees a first-round winner, not just a first-round loser.

Obviously, it would have been made more sense to avoid the rematch and follow the seeds.

But seriously though, leave the crying and whining for the teams that got screwed out of a playoff spot. You're in.

Unacceptable? Looks to me like accepting it is the only choice any of you have. And the teams don't seem to mind that much.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: K-Mack on November 16, 2006, 11:22:36 PM
Quote from: cnusfinest54 on November 16, 2006, 10:25:54 PM
Okay yeah I am a die hard CNU. But I just have a quick question that im sure to get a million answers to.  No one has doubted the fact that UMHB deserves a home game but everyone seems to have a problem with CNU getting a home game.  Now was I surprised that CNU got a home game YES. And yeah they didn't help themselves by losing to NCW but the fact of the matter still remains that a team they beat head to head is ranked higher than them in the playoffs. CNU's only other loss came against a pretty good Rowan team in week one. Both teams finished with identical regional records as well as identical overall marks with the only common opponent being each other, which CNU won. I just don't get the overall argument but maybe someone can take the time to enlighten me.  Now don't get me wrong I still think the Texas teams got the shaft and CNU has a very winnable first round match up. But if an 8-2 UMHB was ranked ahead of a 9-1 Hardin Simmons team for obvious reasons how come UMHB was ranked so far ahead of CNU.

Good question.

I think it has to be the strength of the second loss.

UMHB was No. 17 in the QoWI, CNU 18.
They did play head-to-head, although it was a five-point loss at CNU in Game 1 for UMHB and Game 2 for CNU.

UMHB had a win vs. a regionally-ranked opponent (Hardin-Simmons), as did CNU (UMHB). And if UMHB also got credit for playing an oppoent ranked in a different region and losing, CNU would do the same.

I don't see any other reason why the head-to-head result would be ignored.

You kinda got jobbed, but then again a home game is nice for a two-loss five seed. Don't lose to NCW and I think you're the 2 seed, hands down.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: K-Mack on November 16, 2006, 11:26:57 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 14, 2006, 05:37:33 PM
Quote from: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 14, 2006, 03:04:51 PM
"To be the best you've got to beat the best."

That has never been more true (emphasis added/pc) if Mary Hardin-Baylor is to win the national title...

They would likely have to beat...

First Round - No. 6 Hardin-Simmons
Second Round - No. 20 Washington & Jefferson
Quarterfinals - No. 3 Wesley
Semifinals - No. 2 UW-Whitewater
Finals - No. 1 Mount Union

A breeze compared to 2004:

at No. 7 Trinity (Texas) #    W 32-13       
at No. 3 Hardin-Simmons #    W 42-28       
at No. 5 Washington and Jefferson #    W 52-16       
at No. 1 Mount Union #    W 38-35       
vs. No. 2 Linfield # Salem, Va.    L 28-21       

Yeah,
'04 was legendary.

I also think CNU will win Saturday and put up a fight in the second round.

I think the Central/SJU road is pretty tough too:

1st round: No. 9 Central or No. 12 St. John's
2nd round: No. 8 Whitworth or No. 10 Occidental
Quarters: No. 2 UW-Whitewater
Semis: No. 3 Wesley, No. 5 UMHB or No. 6 HSU
Final: No. 1 Mount Union
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: K-Mack on November 16, 2006, 11:44:40 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on November 15, 2006, 05:10:39 PM
You beat me to the punch, Bill.  Interesting to note who the two South Region representatives are, and where they happen to be from....

::)

We have asked Mohr and Collins (Capital) about being on the committee in the past, and met Dorenkamp at the Stagg Bowl last year. Berezowitz (UWW) used to be on the committee too.

If I'm not mistaken, they have to recuse themselves if they make the playoffs. I'm not sure if that extends to teams and games that affect their conference rivals, but that would make sense. Them being professional enough to be above that would also make sense.

Generally speaking, these coaches want the best for Division III.

I also don't think it's wise for them to hold grudges or try to use influence for anything other that what it is supposed to be used for. I imagine that could come back to bite them some year when they aren't on the committee and someone else does it to them. I'd also bet that doing anything unscrupulous could jeopardize not only that person's future on the committee, but the future and the credibility of anyone else from their school.

You can say I play the company line or whatever, but I think people are way too quick to toss out accusations or come up with conspiracy theories when there are other logical explanations yet to be considered.

I'm not saying the committee could not have done something it can't publicly defend, or can but doesn't want to. But it's also possible they made a silly mistake and it's too late to fix it.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: cnusfinest54 on November 17, 2006, 12:06:10 AM

K-Mack thanks for the info. By no means am I complaining about the hand CNU was dealt. I just couldn't understand with all of the controversy surrounding the seedings and with all of the knowledgeable d 3 posters putting in their 2 cents how that issue never came up.  If you look at it a different way, if UMHB wins their first round game and CNU wins theirs. UMHB will have the luxury of playing a tough conference foe, then play a team that beat them head to head in the regular season (with the same record regional record) in a revenge game at home.  "Not a bad deal for a 2 loss team" that lost the regular season head to head match up, but will be still be guaranteed 2 home games if they win out before the south region title game.  Looking at it that way Hardin Simmons REALLY GOT THE SHAFT IF HEAD TO HEAD GAMES DON'T MATTER.  ;D ;D ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Zmotion10 out on 2 on November 17, 2006, 12:12:06 AM
No complaining here because HSU will get their due on Saturday.  After the loss to UMHB all I have been able to think about is a re-match.  That is because I think we will beat them. I don't care about the rankings. Just wanted to make the playoffs so we could clean the slate and get another shot at the Cru.



Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: K-Mack on November 17, 2006, 12:35:56 AM
cnu,
Great point. Let's see if the complaints are defeaning out of the ASC if/when they get a home game against a team that already beat its champion h2h.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: dsc on November 17, 2006, 07:57:49 AM
Bottom line...

Go Cowboys!!!
Title: Happiness is....
Post by: Toby Taff on November 17, 2006, 09:00:21 AM
Knowing that whoever wins, I still have a team to pull for in the playoffs.  If UMHB wins, I support my alma mater.  If HSU wins, I support my friend Jordan and the miriads of rabid Cowboy faithful i find myself surrounded by day in and out. ;D

That said,
GO CRU!!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 17, 2006, 09:29:47 AM
Quote from: K-Mack on November 16, 2006, 11:44:40 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on November 15, 2006, 05:10:39 PM
You beat me to the punch, Bill.  Interesting to note who the two South Region representatives are, and where they happen to be from....

::)

We have asked Mohr and Collins (Capital) about being on the committee in the past, and met Dorenkamp at the Stagg Bowl last year. Berezowitz (UWW) used to be on the committee too.

If I'm not mistaken, they have to recuse themselves if they make the playoffs. I'm not sure if that extends to teams and games that affect their conference rivals, but that would make sense. Them being professional enough to be above that would also make sense.

Generally speaking, these coaches want the best for Division III.

I also don't think it's wise for them to hold grudges or try to use influence for anything other that what it is supposed to be used for. I imagine that could come back to bite them some year when they aren't on the committee and someone else does it to them. I'd also bet that doing anything unscrupulous could jeopardize not only that person's future on the committee, but the future and the credibility of anyone else from their school.

You can say I play the company line or whatever, but I think people are way too quick to toss out accusations or come up with conspiracy theories when there are other logical explanations yet to be considered.

I'm not saying the committee could not have done something it can't publicly defend, or can but doesn't want to. But it's also possible they made a silly mistake and it's too late to fix it.

...which is why I say that the simplest answer to the question is probably the right one.

The NCAA did not include the msn.mappoint.com "shortest distance" database in the selection packets.

If the coaches see the possibililty of the bracket that Pat projected last Saturday night, and Millsaps to UMHB is a "bussable" game, then we see #7 Millsaps to #2 UMHB. We see #4 CMU hosting #5 W&J (great local game and the potential for lots of fan, alum, and student interest) and #3 HSU hosting #6 CNU.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CNU85 on November 17, 2006, 11:38:04 AM
Quote from: cnusfinest54 on November 17, 2006, 12:06:10 AM

K-Mack thanks for the info. By no means am I complaining about the hand CNU was dealt. I just couldn't understand with all of the controversy surrounding the seedings and with all of the knowledgeable d 3 posters putting in their 2 cents how that issue never came up.  If you look at it a different way, if UMHB wins their first round game and CNU wins theirs. UMHB will have the luxury of playing a tough conference foe, then play a team that beat them head to head in the regular season (with the same record regional record) in a revenge game at home.  "Not a bad deal for a 2 loss team" that lost the regular season head to head match up, but will be still be guaranteed 2 home games if they win out before the south region title game.  Looking at it that way Hardin Simmons REALLY GOT THE SHAFT IF HEAD TO HEAD GAMES DON'T MATTER.  ;D ;D ;)



Scroll back several pages....I made the point on many boards, inclding this one, and it got me grief and my Karma got "jacked up"...or should that be "jacked down". I made the same exact points but K-Mack wasn't around to  moderate the discussion.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 17, 2006, 12:03:56 PM
Quote from: K-Mack on November 16, 2006, 11:22:36 PM
UMHB was No. 17 in the QoWI, CNU 18.
They did play head-to-head, although it was a five-point loss at CNU in Game 1 for UMHB and Game 2 for CNU.

UMHB had a win vs. a regionally-ranked opponent (Hardin-Simmons), as did CNU (UMHB). And if UMHB also got credit for playing an oppoent ranked in a different region and losing, CNU would do the same.

I don't see any other reason why the head-to-head result would be ignored.

You kinda got jobbed, but then again a home game is nice for a two-loss five seed. Don't lose to NCW and I think you're the 2 seed, hands down.

Maybe b/c most people realize that the h2h in UMHB's first game is basically meaningless at this point of the season, and that since then, UMHB faced stiffer competition and played them better than did CNU.  A four-point loss to UWW vs a 12-point loss to NCW?  C'mon, Keith.  I know you've been beating the "CNU is better than UMHB b/c they beat them in Week 2" drum all season, but results since then point to it being a fluke. 

I agree that CNU going 9-1 makes the case for them being a #2.  8-2 with a loss to a non-playoff team and a thrashing at the hands of Rowan puts them squarely where they belong.   
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 17, 2006, 12:05:41 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 17, 2006, 09:29:47 AM

If the coaches see the possibililty of the bracket that Pat projected last Saturday night, and Millsaps to UMHB is a "bussable" game, then we see #7 Millsaps to #2 UMHB. We see #4 CMU hosting #5 W&J (great local game and the potential for lots of fan, alum, and student interest) and #3 HSU hosting #6 CNU.

The only problem with that, Ralph, is that CNU is #5, not #6.

That throws out the W&J/CMU game, and delivers CNU at CMU.  

#6 W&J heads to HSU.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Rikki_Tikki_Tavi on November 17, 2006, 01:06:07 PM
Fluke huh, verrrrry interesting.

I hope CNU and UMHB meet again in the second round and can prove to the all mighty that the game wasn't a fluke.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 17, 2006, 01:06:48 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 17, 2006, 12:05:41 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 17, 2006, 09:29:47 AM

If the coaches see the possibililty of the bracket that Pat projected last Saturday night, and Millsaps to UMHB is a "bussable" game, then we see #7 Millsaps to #2 UMHB. We see #4 CMU hosting #5 W&J (great local game and the potential for lots of fan, alum, and student interest) and #3 HSU hosting #6 CNU.

The only problem with that, Ralph, is that CNU is #5, not #6.

That throws out the W&J/CMU game, and delivers CNU at CMU.  

#6 W&J heads to HSU.
Bob, I was referring to  Pat's projected bracket (http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/?p=270) from the Daily Dose.

If the Committee had known that Millsaps was a bus trip to Belton, I think that they would have bussed them there.

That takes the #2-#7 game out.

Then I think that they put W&J and CMU together as a plausible #4-#5 game.  (W&J is ahead of CNU in the November 8th regional rankings. (http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/?p=268#comments))

Thanks and good luck vs CNU!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 17, 2006, 01:25:53 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 17, 2006, 01:06:48 PM
W&J is ahead of CNU in the November 8th regional rankings. (http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/?p=268#comments))

I dealt with this earlier.  That ranking is without reason.  And the National Committee, correctly, corrected it.

Same in-region record
CNU had win over common regional opponent that W&J lost to
CNU had win over regionally ranked team.  W&J did not.

There is NO way the final rankings had CNU behind the Presidents.  And the earlier regional rankings shouldn't have either.

Or the NCAA should just go back to the 'good ol' boys' rankings and forget publishing any criteria, primary or otherwise.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 17, 2006, 02:29:48 PM
Quote from: Rikki_Tikki_Tavi on November 17, 2006, 01:06:07 PM
Fluke huh, verrrrry interesting.

I hope CNU and UMHB meet again in the second round and can prove to the all mighty that the game wasn't a fluke.

I too hope they meet, for the exact opposite reason.   I've got years and years of watching D3 playoffs going, how about you?  Not to mention the Texas teams are cumulatively tired of their near-perennial playoff punching bag (that would be W&J). 

So go ahead, folks, keep dropping the ol' karma.  God forbid someone have an opinion that's different than yours. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 17, 2006, 03:58:08 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 17, 2006, 01:25:53 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 17, 2006, 01:06:48 PM
W&J is ahead of CNU in the November 8th regional rankings. (http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/?p=268#comments))

I dealt with this earlier.  That ranking is without reason.  And the National Committee, correctly, corrected it.

Same in-region record
CNU had win over common regional opponent that W&J lost to
CNU had win over regionally ranked team.  W&J did not.

There is NO way the final rankings had CNU behind the Presidents.  And the earlier regional rankings shouldn't have either.

Or the NCAA should just go back to the 'good ol' boys' rankings and forget publishing any criteria, primary or otherwise.

Thanks, Bob, for the clarification.

I had missed that.

Good luck to the Presidents.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Olinemom on November 17, 2006, 07:30:57 PM
Quote from: BDTartan on November 12, 2006, 04:40:24 PM
Didn't know exactly where to post this, but this seems to be as good as place as any.

I notice that the Wesley and UWW brackets contain 8 of the nation's top 10 teams according to D3.  With only Capital standing in Mt. Union's way in their bracket and the east teams all knocking each other off in the Wilkes bracket it seems to me like Mt. Union has a much, much easier road to the Stagg Bowl than any other top 10 team.

I could be wrong, but it looks fishy to me with Wesley, HSU, and UMHB in the Wesley bracket and St. John's, UWW, Whitworth, and Central in the UWW bracket.

I realize travel implications have much to do with it, but that's like telling Mt. - "Not only are you the team everybody is gunning for, but you get help because of your location."
almost every year it works out just like that, although 2 years ago UMHB burst their bubble up in Alliance.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: dsc on November 18, 2006, 12:21:51 AM
olinemom


VERY fishy!!!

(It always seems to be the case, huh?)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Olinemom on November 18, 2006, 02:44:38 AM
Quote from: dsc on November 18, 2006, 12:21:51 AM
olinemom


VERY fishy!!!

(It always seems to be the case, huh?)

I truly think you all and the Crusaders have been mistreated so many times in the past and this year is no exception!!!  There really is no excuse not to send Millsaps down to Tejas (spelling meant) to UMHB and probably CNU down to you guys.  I know Llamaguy is happy because he gets to go see a game in VA. but I have to go to a concert tomorrow for the nephew who's in a talent contest. (in the middle of the play offs, I ask you, why????????)  But I think your all's game later today should be a huge game, and there have been some great ones down in your league this year.  I listened to the one when my "other team" came down and you beat them.  I wasn't too happy that day, but any team can beat any other team on any given day.  You all did a great job that day and the Cats weren't up to snuff.  Now UMHB is one of my teams as well.  Sorry, what can I say?  I met them 2 years ago when they came to the Stagg Bowl and ate my brownies.  I met their fans as well.  So if you all make it this far, you will get the brownies as I make brownies for both teams that make it to the Stagg Bowl and for the fans that support both teams at the tailgate that we at Stone Station host.  At any rate, have a great day of football, while those of us with withdrawal just pine away and mourn! :'( :'(  We'll get over it--in time for the Stagg Bowl for sure.  ;D ;D  And now it's time to hit the hay!! (Of course I said that 2 hours ago.)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CNU85 on November 18, 2006, 03:33:08 PM
Bob,

congrats on the win. How was the atmosphere? facilities? Did you enjoy yuour stay? Of course leaving with a W helps a lot. It was goo dmeeting you. Hope you make it back safely!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 18, 2006, 07:44:35 PM
BDTartan, congratualtions on the win over Millsaps.  You shut down the Millsaps offense!

Good luck at Wesley!

Right now, Coach Lackner is one of my candidates for National Coach of the Year.  About the only other candidate that I can think of would be someone other than Larry Kehres winning the Stagg! :)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 18, 2006, 10:30:23 PM
Quote from: CNU85 on November 18, 2006, 03:33:08 PM
Bob,

congrats on the win. How was the atmosphere? facilities? Did you enjoy yuour stay? Of course leaving with a W helps a lot. It was goo dmeeting you. Hope you make it back safely!

85, nice to meet you today.  The box is nice, one of the nicest we've worked in.

Had we not had trouble pre-game with our phone line, we've have opened the box window and enjoyed the atmosphere.  But I thought it was more important that our audience hear the game, even if we couldn't give them any crowd sound.

The trip home was uneventful, with the exception of some very colorful language from my broadcast partner (OSU alum) at various times during the Buckeyes win!...
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 18, 2006, 11:37:12 PM
Congrats to CMU on the big win today and good luck against Wesley.   You will find them to be much larger and much faster (at most positions, anyway) than Millsaps.  Good luck next week!

And to Millsaps - it's a tough way to end the season, but if anyone had offered the Majors the chance to represent the conference in the playoffs before the season, you would have taken it, no questions asked.  You EARNED your way in and now know better what to expect the next time the opportunity comes around.  Congratulations on a fine season!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BDTartan on November 19, 2006, 07:11:35 PM
The congratulations deserve to go to those players and coaches at CMU not me.  All I did was sit in the stands and cheer them on.  I am extremely happy with the win, but I must say after speaking with people about Millsaps I was stunned to watch the CMU defense shut down the Millsaps offense.  I believe Millsaps only had one redzone appearance and was picked off immediately after they got there.  For the most part CMU just let them have 5 and 10 yard outs, but everything else they had their clamps on.

Congrats to CMU and on to Wesley!!  Go Tartans!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: jc101 on November 19, 2006, 09:16:43 PM
Quote from: BDTartan on November 19, 2006, 07:11:35 PM
The congratulations deserve to go to those players and coaches at CMU not me.  All I did was sit in the stands and cheer them on.  I am extremely happy with the win, but I must say after speaking with people about Millsaps I was stunned to watch the CMU defense shut down the Millsaps offense.  I believe Millsaps only had one redzone appearance and was picked off immediately after they got there.  For the most part CMU just let them have 5 and 10 yard outs, but everything else they had their clamps on.

Congrats to CMU and on to Wesley!!  Go Tartans!

Yeah, Millsaps was averaging 33 ppg during the regular season.  So that was a great defensive effort.  Wesley's offense is even better, averaging 39 ppg so the CMU defense is going to have their hands full again.  Looks like Wesley's only close game was a 13-10 win at Salisbury.  Salisbury ended the season with 5 losses, but they did beat W&J 32-14 so they must've been pretty good.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 19, 2006, 10:55:46 PM
How is everyone doing so far in their prediction polls????

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on November 19, 2006, 10:59:13 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on November 19, 2006, 10:55:46 PM
How is everyone doing so far in their prediction polls????



14-2 here. If you took all the favorites, it was a good week for you. I missed the St. John's and UW-Lax games. Thought there might be an upset there that didn't materialize.  :D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 19, 2006, 11:01:30 PM
Not bad at all for the Llama!

i was 13-3...

I took Curry and and i really thought Mount St. Joseph would come back strong this week from their lost against TMore in the last game of the year.

And Concordia Wisc.  also proved me wrong being defeated by north central.   
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 19, 2006, 11:09:30 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on November 19, 2006, 10:55:46 PM
How is everyone doing so far in their prediction polls????

I went 14-2 as well.  Missed CMU/Millsaps and CNU/W&J.  :-\

At least I still have all of my second round winners alive. A couple tough games though ... IMO, in order of toughest to easiest (as far as picking a winner);

1 - St. John Fisher at Springfield
2 - Rowan at Wilkes
3 - St. John's at Whitworth
4 - Carnegie Mellon at Wesley
5 - UW-La Crosse at UW-Whitewater
6 - Washington & Jefferson at Mary Hardin-Baylor
7 - North Central at Capital
8 - Wheaton at Mount Union

Any thoughts?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on November 19, 2006, 11:39:30 PM
Quote from: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 19, 2006, 11:09:30 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on November 19, 2006, 10:55:46 PM
How is everyone doing so far in their prediction polls????

I went 14-2 as well.  Missed CMU/Millsaps and CNU/W&J.  :-\

At least I still have all of my second round winners alive. A couple tough games though ... IMO, in order of toughest to easiest (as far as picking a winner);

1 - St. John Fisher at Springfield
2 - Rowan at Wilkes
3 - St. John's at Whitworth
4 - Carnegie Mellon at Wesley
5 - UW-La Crosse at UW-Whitewater
6 - Washington & Jefferson at Mary Hardin-Baylor
7 - North Central at Capital
8 - Wheaton at Mount Union

Any thoughts?

You may want to move St. John's at Whitworth down a few. Whitworth's QB has a bum ankle and played on one leg last week. It may have worked against Occidental but I doubt it will against St. John's.  ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 19, 2006, 11:41:48 PM
 14-2 but my bracket went blank so I am not sure who my second loss was. Occidental was one
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BDTartan on November 19, 2006, 11:43:05 PM
I also went 14-2.  Looks pretty good to me Matt.  I missed on North Central/Concordia and Whitworth/Occidental.  I am surprised that you put the CMU/Wesley game in the top half of your list.  I thought for sure everybody would have Wesley as a lock over CMU.  I hope your right and its a good game, I'll be leaving for Dover, DE at about 2 am Saturday morning.

My bracket went blank as well.  All you have to do is grab hold of the scroll bar and move it real slow down the bracket and the winners(bold) and losers should appear.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on November 19, 2006, 11:49:46 PM
All my second roudn and quarterfinal winners are still in place which is good news.  I was surpised to see Curry lose after goign 11-0 this season.  Did anyone else pic them over springfield? 

Doesnt seem like it???
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BDTartan on November 19, 2006, 11:57:46 PM
I sure as heck didn't.  I figured Springfield's human highlight at QB would have a good game and I was right.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on November 20, 2006, 12:05:33 AM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on November 19, 2006, 11:49:46 PM
All my second roudn and quarterfinal winners are still in place which is good news.  I was surpised to see Curry lose after goign 11-0 this season.  Did anyone else pic them over springfield? 

Doesnt seem like it???

The fact that the NEFC was 0-7 in the playoffs going in pretty much did it for me. They are in a weak conference and it shows once they get into the playoffs.

I agree about Springfield's QB. Interesting to note that Springfield & St. Johns Fisher are Top 10 in the country in rushing offense. If Rowan can get by Wilkes that would setup quite a matchup with Rowan having the 2nd best rushing defense in the country. Which team wins out?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: pg04 on November 20, 2006, 12:23:28 AM
I agree, the Springfield Quarterback is a Force.  The only team that has really been able to stop him was Ithaca.

As For Curry, Never EVER pick an NEFC team until they have come within an eyelash of being competitive with the rest of the east.  I shudder to think what may have happened had they played Mount Union!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on November 20, 2006, 01:00:47 AM
I would have it more like:

1 - St. John Fisher at Springfield
2 - Rowan at Wilkes
3 - North Central at Capital
4 - UW-La Crosse at UW-Whitewater
5 - St. John's at Whitworth
6 - Washington & Jefferson at Mary Hardin-Baylor
7 - Carnegie Mellon at Wesley
8 - Wheaton at Mount Union

In my mind there are only 2 games that on paper could go either way. That being said, upsets happen and we are now into the rounds that they start. Remember a Wesley team that went into Texas and took down UMHB last year? It can happen and usually does. ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Toby Taff on November 20, 2006, 02:26:32 AM
Quote from: Llamaguy on November 20, 2006, 01:00:47 AM
I would have it more like:

1 - St. John Fisher at Springfield
2 - Rowan at Wilkes
3 - North Central at Capital
4 - UW-La Crosse at UW-Whitewater
5 - St. John's at Whitworth
6 - Washington & Jefferson at Mary Hardin-Baylor
7 - Carnegie Mellon at Wesley
8 - Wheaton at Mount Union

In my mind there are only 2 games that on paper could go either way. That being said, upsets happen and we are now into the rounds that they start. Remember a Wesley team that went into Texas and took down UMHB last year? It can happen and usually does. ;)


I'd like to see CMU surprise Wesley, a little second round "one good turn..." payback.  + the possibility of a 3rd UMHB home game.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BDTartan on November 20, 2006, 08:53:32 AM
haha, I'd be glad to have to make a trip from Ohio to Texas, but one game at a time for CMU.  The way I see it, CMU will have to jump all over Wesley like Dickinson did, but maintaint a lead.  That will be much tougher now that Wesley will be ready for a team they're supposed to beat.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 20, 2006, 09:05:47 AM
Quote from: BDTartan on November 20, 2006, 08:53:32 AM
haha, I'd be glad to have to make a trip from Ohio to Texas, but one game at a time for CMU.  The way I see it, CMU will have to jump all over Wesley like Dickinson did, but maintaint a lead.  That will be much tougher now that Wesley will be ready for a team they're supposed to beat.

I wonder if Dickinson's early lead knocked the "#1 seed giddiness" out of Wesley, and they now have their collective game faces on.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: dedragon on November 20, 2006, 11:00:43 AM
Quote from: mhb8904 on November 20, 2006, 02:26:32 AM
Quote from: Llamaguy on November 20, 2006, 01:00:47 AM
I would have it more like:

1 - St. John Fisher at Springfield
2 - Rowan at Wilkes
3 - North Central at Capital
4 - UW-La Crosse at UW-Whitewater
5 - St. John's at Whitworth
6 - Washington & Jefferson at Mary Hardin-Baylor
7 - Carnegie Mellon at Wesley
8 - Wheaton at Mount Union

In my mind there are only 2 games that on paper could go either way. That being said, upsets happen and we are now into the rounds that they start. Remember a Wesley team that went into Texas and took down UMHB last year? It can happen and usually does. ;)


I'd like to see CMU surprise Wesley, a little second round "one good turn..." payback.  + the possibility of a 3rd UMHB home game.

Don't you think it would be a better turn if you guys came to Dover for that payback.  I would think the players would prefer to deliver it themselves.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Toby Taff on November 20, 2006, 12:00:24 PM
Quote from: dedragon on November 20, 2006, 11:00:43 AM
Quote from: mhb8904 on November 20, 2006, 02:26:32 AM
Quote from: Llamaguy on November 20, 2006, 01:00:47 AM
I would have it more like:

1 - St. John Fisher at Springfield
2 - Rowan at Wilkes
3 - North Central at Capital
4 - UW-La Crosse at UW-Whitewater
5 - St. John's at Whitworth
6 - Washington & Jefferson at Mary Hardin-Baylor
7 - Carnegie Mellon at Wesley
8 - Wheaton at Mount Union

In my mind there are only 2 games that on paper could go either way. That being said, upsets happen and we are now into the rounds that they start. Remember a Wesley team that went into Texas and took down UMHB last year? It can happen and usually does. ;)


I'd like to see CMU surprise Wesley, a little second round "one good turn..." payback.  + the possibility of a 3rd UMHB home game.

Don't you think it would be a better turn if you guys came to Dover for that payback.  I would think the players would prefer to deliver it themselves.

They probably would, but I have a final on the 2nd of December, I can't make it to Dover, I could however make it to Belton. ;D  My intentions are purely selfish. ::)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 20, 2006, 04:39:30 PM
Ralph
  Dickinson had 220+ yrds in the first 16 mins of the game. After they fumbled inside the 15 they had a tackle screen td called back for holding which was so obvious that the player called for the infraction tried to hide under the turf.. Wesley held Dickinson to less than 60 total yrds.  I would say that woke up. Robinson was running guys down all over the field. and to boot he is playing some wide out!!!
  CMU might have to score 40 this week to stay close.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CMURyan on November 20, 2006, 05:00:47 PM
You ought to give CMU a little credit.  The team did just shut out a playoff caliber offense and is third in the nation in scoring defense.  Not saying we'll win, but I wouldn't expect Wesley to go out there and put up points like they did against the rest of the competition.  Should be a hard fought game and if CMU can get the running game going, I think we've got a real shot.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 20, 2006, 05:16:26 PM
 I didn't say CMU couldn't or wouldn't keep it close. The fact is that Wesley scores a lot of points week after week. And if CMU wants to stay with them they either have to score with Wesley or run off a lot of time on the clock. Wesley can score from anywhere on the field. They don't use a lot of time to do it.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 20, 2006, 05:20:39 PM
Quote from: CMURyan on November 20, 2006, 05:00:47 PM
You ought to give CMU a little credit.  The team did just shut out a playoff caliber offense and is third in the nation in scoring defense.  Not saying we'll win, but I wouldn't expect Wesley to go out there and put up points like they did against the rest of the competition.  Should be a hard fought game and if CMU can get the running game going, I think we've got a real shot.

CMURyan, IMHO, the creditable performance over/under for CMU vs. Wesley is 2 TD's.

I hope they can defeat Wesley because that would mean a playoff game in Belton if the CRU can take care of business.

Coach Lackner is my Coach of the Year, and defeating Wesley would probably lock that in for him!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Hampton U SID on November 20, 2006, 07:01:51 PM
PA...please tell me that I am reading something wrong....Bryan Robinson playing wideout??????

GULP

:o
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 20, 2006, 07:12:19 PM
 HAHA I believe that is what position you would call it... I know that they threw a pass to him during the Morrisville game. incomplete. Can you imagine him Blocking you!!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: dedragon on November 20, 2006, 11:27:47 PM
I saw him at practice this afternoon returning kick offs during specialty.  Man...what an athlete.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: patcummings on November 21, 2006, 10:36:04 PM
FYI...

NCAASports.com will be offering audio of Wesley/CMU with yours truly on the call this weekend.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 21, 2006, 11:19:46 PM
DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAM
PatCummings
I only have two PC's ,one for the web cast and one for the radio cast. Guess I'll have to surf...Enjoy your trip to Dover.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 21, 2006, 11:25:23 PM

  Boy if I could lose weight as fast as my Karma has dropped this week I would be back to being pleasantly plump!!!! LOL
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on November 21, 2006, 11:33:29 PM
Quote from: patcummings on November 21, 2006, 10:36:04 PM
FYI...

NCAASports.com will be offering audio of Wesley/CMU with yours truly on the call this weekend.

Hey Mr Cummings,

Anybody calling the game at Wilkes? Make sure Wesley takes care of business this week and the BC'ers will be "in the house" with you for the regional final.  ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on November 22, 2006, 05:09:25 PM
We need to shorten this region up! In an effort to see a game this week I have to drive 4hrs to the Wilkes/Rowan game. Yes I could go to Wesley, but am planning on making that trip next Saturday unless CMU knocks them off.

I'm making an attempt to see as many D3 teams in person during the playoffs so I don't get called out for voting on a team I haven't seen in person. Ha,ha. Just kidding. I'm really just enjoying as much football as I can before the dreaded "offseason" begins.  ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 22, 2006, 05:14:48 PM
Quote from: Llamaguy on November 22, 2006, 05:09:25 PM
We need to shorten this region up! In an effort to see a game this week I have to drive 4hrs to the Wilkes/Rowan game. Yes I could go to Wesley, but am planning on making that trip next Saturday unless CMU knocks them off.

I'm making an attempt to see as many D3 teams in person during the playoffs so I don't get called out for voting on a team I haven't seen in person. Ha,ha. Just kidding. I'm really just enjoying as much football as I can before the dreaded "offseason" begins.  ;)

I have to take this weekend off from in-person Division III football (wife's orders) ... but if there's a Wesley/UMHB showdown in Dover on Dec. 2, better save me a seat!

I've got to hand it to you ... you might be seeing 10 different Division III teams in person in six weeks: Catholic, Bridgewater, Christopher Newport, Washington & Jefferson, Wilkes, Rowan, Wesley, Mary Hardin-Baylor, Mount Union, and UW-Whitewater.  Impressive!

PS: Let me know if you're still married come Dec. 17 :)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on November 22, 2006, 07:18:38 PM
Quote from: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 22, 2006, 05:14:48 PM

I have to take this weekend off from in-person Division III football (wife's orders) ... but if there's a Wesley/UMHB showdown in Dover on Dec. 2, better save me a seat!

I've got to hand it to you ... you might be seeing 10 different Division III teams in person in six weeks: Catholic, Bridgewater, Christopher Newport, Washington & Jefferson, Wilkes, Rowan, Wesley, Mary Hardin-Baylor, Mount Union, and UW-Whitewater.  Impressive!

PS: Let me know if you're still married come Dec. 17 :)

LOL! Better make that 11 if either Rowan or Wilkes doesn't make the Semi's. I have a trip to Mt. Union in the works for Dec. 9. ;)

I read the latter part of the post to the wife. Her response: "We've been together too long, I could give a rat's azz whether you go to a football game or not.!  :D And note, this comment is after I missed her sister's wedding to go to the Ferrum game in September. Guess I got a good woman. ;D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 22, 2006, 10:27:54 PM
  Happy Thanksgiving to all you great DIII fans. Have a safe holiday weekend.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 23, 2006, 11:28:56 AM
Quote from: Llamaguy on November 22, 2006, 07:18:38 PM
..... "We've been together too long, I could give a rat's azz whether you go to a football game or not.!

Perhaps, Llama, your wife could talk to my wife......
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 23, 2006, 11:52:37 AM
Llama

Mine tooooo!!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 23, 2006, 11:57:02 AM
After 26 years, my wife asked what games I'm going to this weekend.  I love her!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 24, 2006, 09:11:44 AM
Okay, okay.  But keep in mind I'm only five months into it.  I need a little more time for her to start not caring where and what I do. :D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 24, 2006, 09:45:28 AM
Quote from: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 24, 2006, 09:11:44 AM
Okay, okay.  But keep in mind I'm only five months into it.  I need a little more time for her to start not caring where and what I do. :D
Kid, try this.

One rose, one point.
One dozen roses, one point.
One rose on twelve different days, each with a nice little note on the card, twelve points.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 24, 2006, 11:42:22 AM
Matt, the ultimate is to get her to go with you to the games.  My wife would only go when one of our boys was playing.  >:(
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CNU85 on November 24, 2006, 12:52:07 PM
Kid,

Give her Boone's Farm before the game...she'll be alright!!

21 years as of yesterday!! I have gotten her to attend a few hoops games one year....only because she used to change diapers on one of the CNU players (have fun with that one Llama!!!!).
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: kickerdad on November 24, 2006, 01:03:40 PM
Matt,

I am with Bill, been married 33 years and only when our son is playing will my wife go to a game. She has only let me out of the barn 3 other times to go to a college game and thats because it was a D1 game at UVA and I had too much money invested.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Olinemom on November 24, 2006, 07:53:46 PM
Quote from: patcummings on November 21, 2006, 10:36:04 PM
FYI...

NCAASports.com will be offering audio of Wesley/CMU with yours truly on the call this weekend.

Well, I will be listening to you as well as to the WW-WLX game.  So have a great game!!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Olinemom on November 24, 2006, 07:55:19 PM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on November 21, 2006, 11:25:23 PM

  Boy if I could lose weight as fast as my Karma has dropped this week I would be back to being pleasantly plump!!!! LOL

have some +karma and e-brownies on me!!  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Olinemom on November 24, 2006, 07:59:37 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 23, 2006, 11:28:56 AM
Quote from: Llamaguy on November 22, 2006, 07:18:38 PM
..... "We've been together too long, I could give a rat's azz whether you go to a football game or not.!

Perhaps, Llama, your wife could talk to my wife......
I was watching some high school state playoff game in Pennsylvania today on Fox Sports South.  I know you do some of these games.  This one was in Pittsburgh.  Of course, I didn't think that it might mot have been live.  I don't know.  Just wondered if you had been calling the game?  Sounds really nebulous, I know.  Oh well . . .
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 24, 2006, 10:54:24 PM
Olinemom

  Thanks for both.. You certainly know how to cheer up people!!!!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on November 25, 2006, 12:06:45 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 23, 2006, 11:28:56 AM
Quote from: Llamaguy on November 22, 2006, 07:18:38 PM
..... "We've been together too long, I could give a rat's azz whether you go to a football game or not.!

Perhaps, Llama, your wife could talk to my wife......

LOL! You thought I was kidding didn't you? Here was my Thanksgiving, went to see some friends in Richmond, VA (2 hr drive), stayed at their place with the family. Got up and took them to Science museum and to see Happy Feet on IMAX. Took the family for a nice dinner  ;D at Hooters in Richmond. I get in my truck, drive 40 minutes out of the way to go to a High school football game on the way home. The wife drives kids home from Richmond. Just got home and get to leave in 6 hrs to pickup a friend and head to Rowan/Wilkes live(4hr drive), then back home by 8pm to watch JMU/Youngstown St on the Deuce. Are you ready for some football?

My good friend made a good point last week, "There are only so many football weekends in the year, we better enjoy them while they last!"  :D

ps. Kid, Richmond had you know who's 3 sisters at the wing place. Priceless! ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Olinemom on November 25, 2006, 12:30:42 AM
Quote from: Llamaguy link=topic=4102.msg619560#msg619560/quote]
I don't suppose you would have room on the trip to Alliance that you were talking about taking (Dec 8-9?)  Maybe I  have t he wrong date.  But I thought I would ask.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 25, 2006, 12:04:05 PM
Quote from: Olinemom on November 24, 2006, 07:59:37 PM
I was watching some high school state playoff game in Pennsylvania today on Fox Sports South.  I know you do some of these games.  This one was in Pittsburgh.  Of course, I didn't think that it might mot have been live.  I don't know.  Just wondered if you had been calling the game?  Sounds really nebulous, I know.  Oh well . . .

Actually, mom, I was doing two of those games live, and THAT's why I'm still in PA, not in Texas.  I wasn't doing them on tv that you were watching, but on radio (my strength).  They always get guys to work the tv that haven't seen the teams, don't know the rules, or are P-G/Trib newspaper writers..... Go figure!

Oh, the other reason I'm still in PA is that American Airlines thought that $1,123 was a good price for round-trip from PIT to DFW.  Hope their plane was full.

And here's a real kicker--that same flight went on to Austin.  Round-trip if I flew the extra leg was $548.  Now, tell me how THAT makes sense....$1,123 if I fly segment 1 of the trip.  $548 if I fly segments 1 & 2....

Here's hoping we don't bail them out!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Toby Taff on November 25, 2006, 12:05:45 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 25, 2006, 12:04:05 PM
They always get guys to work the tv that haven't seen the teams, don't know the rules, or are P-G/Trib newspaper writers..... Go figure!

You sound a little bitter bob ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 25, 2006, 12:09:20 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 25, 2006, 12:04:05 PM
... I wasn't doing them on tv that you were watching, but on radio (my strength). 

Not at all.  You missed my point about radio.

And I rarely get to watch the games.  I just always get to hear the comments about the people Fox hires to announce them....
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 25, 2006, 12:21:14 PM
koroma 59 yrds td run welsey starts strong 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Toby Taff on November 25, 2006, 12:44:37 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 25, 2006, 12:09:20 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 25, 2006, 12:04:05 PM
... I wasn't doing them on tv that you were watching, but on radio (my strength). 

Not at all.  You missed my point about radio.

And I rarely get to watch the games.  I just always get to hear the comments about the people Fox hires to announce them....
I read correctly, that was tongue in cheek.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 25, 2006, 12:45:35 PM
wesley/cmu on WDEL.com
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 25, 2006, 02:38:50 PM
Congrats to Wesley ... that sets up a quarterfinal game in Dover!  Looks like I'll be making the trip!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 29, 2006, 07:59:43 PM
Pat or K-Mack

Who's going to be in Dover this weekend?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 29, 2006, 11:54:09 PM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on November 29, 2006, 07:59:43 PM
Pat or K-Mack

Who's going to be in Dover this weekend?

Keith and Cummings (source (http://d3football.com/audio/)).
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on December 10, 2006, 11:10:49 AM
That was very nice yesterday having the stream of the game.  Hope there can be more of those in the future.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: crusaderforlife on October 10, 2007, 01:09:41 AM
What happens if we have numerous two loss teams in the SOuth region as Pool C potentials. The was the South Region is going it may be very possible.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: roocru on October 10, 2007, 01:40:16 AM
Quote from: crusaderforlife on October 10, 2007, 01:09:41 AM
What happens if we have numerous two loss teams in the SOuth region as Pool C potentials. The was the South Region is going it may be very possible.

Crusaderforlife,

Pools B and C are done on a national basis, not a regional one.  It is entirely possible for a region to have none of either.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 10, 2007, 09:29:35 AM
I copied this from the South Region Fan Poll Board.

Quote from: Matt Barnhart (kid) on October 10, 2007, 07:29:40 AM
I think we'll know on Oct. 27.  Wesley v. Salisbury, Millsaps v. Trinity.
W&J at Waynesburg and NCWC at CNU, too!

Also for our enjoyment, UMHB at UW-Whitewater.

What a weekend!  The Wesley-Salisbury game is for one or two Pool B bids.  The others help determine the SCAC, the Pres AC and the USA South.

UMHB at UW-W probably determines home field advantage thru the Semi-finals.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Snakehandler on October 12, 2007, 10:42:52 AM
I'm ready to go out on a limb: So here we go with my first projection:

(5) Milsaps (9-1) @ (1) UMHB (9-1)
8 Muhlenburg (9-1) @ (4) Salisbury (9-1)



(6) CNU (8-2) @ (3) Wesley (9-1)
(7) Emory & Henry (8-2) @ (2) W&J (10-0)

Any thoughts?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 12, 2007, 10:46:29 AM
I think you're a braver man than I to make a projection this early in the season.

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 12, 2007, 10:57:00 AM
Quote from: Snakehandler on October 12, 2007, 10:42:52 AM
(7) Emory & Henry (8-2) @ (2) W&J (10-0)

Any thoughts?

20-year anniversary of a classic South Region final game.

I got married one week later.  Now, well, I better leave it at that...
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Major Rev on October 12, 2007, 11:37:30 AM
Ah, Snakehandler, pushes us into a real fray here.

I will leave you guys who are the "statistical stallions" to conquer this one this early!  As a fledgling, my knowledge is just too limited, but that's quite a stab on the bottom two!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 13, 2007, 11:38:55 PM
Quote from: Snakehandler on October 12, 2007, 10:42:52 AM
(7) Emory & Henry (8-2)

Jinxed the Wasps, Snakehandler!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 13, 2007, 11:45:31 PM
Quote from: Snakehandler on October 12, 2007, 10:42:52 AM
I'm ready to go out on a limb: So here we go with my first projection:

(5) Milsaps (9-1) @ (1) UMHB (9-1)
8 Muhlenburg (9-1) @ (4) Salisbury (9-1)

Any thoughts?
Luckiest team in the bracket?

Muhlenberg!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Snakehandler on October 15, 2007, 10:05:33 AM
This week's playoff projection:

(5) Milsaps (9-1) @ (1) UMHB (9-1)
8 Muhlenburg (9-1) @ (4) Salisbury (9-1)



(6) CNU (8-2) @ (3) Wesley (9-1)
(7) HSC (8-2) @ (2) W&J (10-0)

Book It!!!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 15, 2007, 12:34:12 PM
UMHB 9-1 ???  I didn't catch this last week somehow.

If they do lose to UW-W, a regional game according to the site under the adjusted regional rules, I doubt they'd get the #1 seed. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 15, 2007, 01:12:07 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on October 15, 2007, 12:34:12 PM
UMHB 9-1 ???  I didn't catch this last week somehow.

If they do lose to UW-W, a regional game according to the site under the adjusted regional rules, I doubt they'd get the #1 seed. 
Great point, Ron!  That would give W&J #1! How about this!

(5) Millsaps (9-1) @ (2) UMHB (9-1)
(6) CNU (8-2) @ (4) Salisbury (9-1)  For the Chesapeake Championship!

(7) HSC (8-2) @ (3) Wesley (9-1)
(8 ) Muhlenburg (9-1)  @ (1) W&J (10-0)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Snakehandler on October 15, 2007, 01:47:28 PM




Quote from: Ron Boerger on October 15, 2007, 12:34:12 PM
UMHB 9-1 ???  I didn't catch this last week somehow.

If they do lose to UW-W, a regional game according to the site under the adjusted regional rules, I doubt they'd get the #1 seed. 
Good point, I didn't realize it was an "in region" game.

Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 15, 2007, 01:12:07 PM
(6) CNU (8-2) @ (4) Salisbury (9-1)  For the Chesapeake Championship!

They have already played once this year. The NCAA may make them play again in the first round, but I would think they would try to avoid it if possible.

How about:

(5) Millsaps (9-1) @ (2) UMHB (9-1)
(6) HSC (8-2) @ (4) Salisbury (9-1) 

(7) CNU (8-2) @ (3) Wesley (9-1)
(8 ) Muhlenburg (9-1)  @ (1) W&J (10-0)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Carl Menist on October 15, 2007, 01:53:57 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 15, 2007, 01:12:07 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on October 15, 2007, 12:34:12 PM
UMHB 9-1 ???  I didn't catch this last week somehow.

If they do lose to UW-W, a regional game according to the site under the adjusted regional rules, I doubt they'd get the #1 seed. 
Great point, Ron!  That would give W&J #1! How about this!

(5) Millsaps (9-1) @ (2) UMHB (9-1)
(6) CNU (8-2) @ (4) Salisbury (9-1)  For the Chesapeake Championship!

(7) HSC (8-2) @ (3) Wesley (9-1)
(8 ) Muhlenburg (9-1)  @ (1) W&J (10-0)

Who is HSC?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on October 15, 2007, 01:54:10 PM
Quote from: Snakehandler on October 15, 2007, 01:47:28 PM




Quote from: Ron Boerger on October 15, 2007, 12:34:12 PM
UMHB 9-1 ???  I didn't catch this last week somehow.

If they do lose to UW-W, a regional game according to the site under the adjusted regional rules, I doubt they'd get the #1 seed. 
Good point, I didn't realize it was an "in region" game.

Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 15, 2007, 01:12:07 PM
(6) CNU (8-2) @ (4) Salisbury (9-1)  For the Chesapeake Championship!

They have already played once this year. The NCAA may make them play again in the first round, but I would think they would try to avoid it if possible.

How about:

(5) Millsaps (9-1) @ (2) UMHB (9-1)
(6) HSC (8-2) @ (4) Salisbury (9-1) 

(7) CNU (8-2) @ (3) Wesley (9-1)
(8 ) Muhlenburg (9-1)  @ (1) W&J (10-0)

In my opinion Muhlenburg or Wesley if they get in will go to the East and another 9-1 team from the South will get in.(If there is one)  The East as usual may not have enough 1 loss teams to compete nationally for a Pool C bid. There will be atleast one 2 loss Pool C recipient. Book it.  :D

I plan on putting together the annual South Region Playoff Watch info after next week's results.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 15, 2007, 02:56:27 PM
Quote from: Big C on October 15, 2007, 01:53:57 PM

Who is HSC?
Hampden-Sydney College (ODAC)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: frank_ezelle on October 15, 2007, 05:28:13 PM
Just a question for those who understand the playoff system better than I.  Suppose Millsaps goes 9-1, winning the SCAC AQ.  Also suppose Mississippi College goes 8-2 with their only other loss being to UMHB.  Would there be a reasonable possibility of a Millsaps vs. MS College matchup in the first round of the playoff? 

Millsaps should be ranked if they win out, so MC would have a win over a ranked team, a loss to UMHB, and a close loss to a team that might get back into the rankings.  For what it's worth, and I've been told repeatedly that it is worth nothing when it comes to playoff considerations, it would be a high gate game with very little expense for the NCAA. 

Do any of you see the chance of a matchup like this happening if all the ifs work out correctly?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 15, 2007, 05:49:36 PM
Yes, if the two teams made the playoffs there's a good chance they'd be matched against each other. The committee gives less importance to avoiding non-conference rematches than it does to avoiding conference rematches.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: DPU3619 on October 15, 2007, 06:01:08 PM
Quote from: frank_ezelle on October 15, 2007, 05:28:13 PM
Just a question for those who understand the playoff system better than I.  Suppose Millsaps goes 9-1, winning the SCAC AQ.  Also suppose Mississippi College goes 8-2 with their only other loss being to UMHB.  Would there be a reasonable possibility of a Millsaps vs. MS College matchup in the first round of the playoff? 

Not really excited about that potential trip to Belton, are you?  :D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CNU85 on October 15, 2007, 06:04:14 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on October 15, 2007, 12:34:12 PM
UMHB 9-1 ???  I didn't catch this last week somehow.

If they do lose to UW-W, a regional game according to the site under the adjusted regional rules, I doubt they'd get the #1 seed. 

Can the adjusted rules on in-region games be explained in a few easy sentences so that this simpleton can understand it?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: exmajor on October 15, 2007, 06:23:09 PM
Quote from: Wes Anderson (DPU3619) on October 15, 2007, 06:01:08 PM
Quote from: frank_ezelle on October 15, 2007, 05:28:13 PM
Just a question for those who understand the playoff system better than I.  Suppose Millsaps goes 9-1, winning the SCAC AQ.  Also suppose Mississippi College goes 8-2 with their only other loss being to UMHB.  Would there be a reasonable possibility of a Millsaps vs. MS College matchup in the first round of the playoff? 

Not really excited about that potential trip to Belton, are you?  :D

I would be far more concerned with Trinity in Jackson in two weeks than where a potential playoff game may shake out.  I think a loss in Jackson by Millsaps eliminates playoff hopes this year.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 15, 2007, 06:30:12 PM
Quote from: CNU85 on October 15, 2007, 06:04:14 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on October 15, 2007, 12:34:12 PM
UMHB 9-1 ???  I didn't catch this last week somehow.

If they do lose to UW-W, a regional game according to the site under the adjusted regional rules, I doubt they'd get the #1 seed. 

Can the adjusted rules on in-region games be explained in a few easy sentences so that this simpleton can understand it?
FAQ on in-region games. (http://www.d3football.com/faq.php?answer&category=Playoffs&id=38)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: frank_ezelle on October 17, 2007, 06:45:32 AM
Quote from: exmajor on October 15, 2007, 06:23:09 PM
Quote from: Wes Anderson (DPU3619) on October 15, 2007, 06:01:08 PM
Quote from: frank_ezelle on October 15, 2007, 05:28:13 PM
Just a question for those who understand the playoff system better than I.  Suppose Millsaps goes 9-1, winning the SCAC AQ.  Also suppose Mississippi College goes 8-2 with their only other loss being to UMHB.  Would there be a reasonable possibility of a Millsaps vs. MS College matchup in the first round of the playoff? 

Not really excited about that potential trip to Belton, are you?  :D

I would be far more concerned with Trinity in Jackson in two weeks than where a potential playoff game may shake out.  I think a loss in Jackson by Millsaps eliminates playoff hopes this year.

I'm not in any way thinking that Millsaps getting into the playoffs is a guarantee.  No offense to anyone, but if Millsaps loses to Trinity then the best they can do is go 8-2 with a win against no significant opponent (in the eyes of the NCAA playoff committee).  Millsaps will only get into the playoffs via the SCAC AQ.

I don't know what to expect when Trinity comes to town at the end of this month.  Trinity will undoubtedly play better than last year.  I think Millsaps will also play better in everything but the special teams--it would be hard to come close to Chris Jackson's performance last year and that was a big key to the victory.  I do know that it should be one heck of a ballgame with a big Homecoming crowd and it would be hard to find a better way to spend a Saturday afternoon on a hopefully beautiful fall day.  It should be a great event and I hope the crowd is overflowing for both teams.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 17, 2007, 11:33:40 AM
Can anyone (Ralph) provide me with either a link to the ASC football handbook or refresh my memory as to the tiebreaker system?  I can't seem to find the information on the ASC's revamped website (which is pretty nice, IMO)...

Here's my take on the South right now:

AQ conference champs (Pool A):

CC:  Muhlenburg/Dickinson--Muhlenburg could factor in the Pool C discussion if they lose only to Dickinson and wind up 9-1.

SCAC:  Trinity/Millsaps--A 2-loss SCAC team will not get an at-large, so the winner of this game most likely takes all.

USAC:  NC Wesleyan/Christopher Newport--A 3-loss USAC tean will not get an at-large, so the winner of this game takes all.

PAC:  W&J/Waynesburg--Either team finishing at 9-1 has a legitimate shot at a Poll C berth.

ASC:  Mississippi College/UMHB--MC is out with a loss.  If UMHB loses to MC and the Choctaws win out, the Crusaders MUST beat Wisconsin-Whitewater.  I don't think an 8-2 UMHB team gets an at-large, even if CNU wins the USAC and the Crusaders have an in-region win over a playoff team--there could easily be too many 9-1 teams ahead of them.  If UMHB beats MC, then they earn the ASC Pool A (assuming they don't somehow stumble in-conference the rest of the way) and get in, regardless of the outcome against UW-Whitewater.

ODAC:  Randolph Macon/Bridgewater--I think a 2-loss ODAC team is out of the running for a Pool C this year, so the winner of this game takes all here.

Non-AQ Conference Champs (Pool B/C)

ACFC:  Salisbury/Wesley--If Salisubry beats Wesley, the Wolverines are out at 2 losses, even if they have a win over a potential Pool A NC Wesleyan.  If Wesley beats Salisbury, though, each team could legitimately finish 9-1 with a win over a playoff team (depending on what happens in the USAC)

UAA:  Washington University/Case Western University--If Case wins out, they'll be 10-0 and almost a shoo in for a Pool B, given the small pool to choose from.  They're also a North Region team that could conceivably get shipped out-of-region to play a W&J, Waynesburg, Salisbury, Wesley or Muhlenburg/Dickinson.  An 8-2 Wash U. team is done, but if both finish 9-1, then one could lay claim to one of the Pool C slots, while the other would likely get a Pool B as conference champ.  Obviously, a lot of the UAA's chances for multiple bids hinges on how the NWC and ACFC both play out.

Teams that are alive for potential at-large berths (Pool C)

This has to be looked at from a national perspective, so that's what I'll do here.  These are the only teams I think that have a shot at at-large berths into the playoffs this year:

*  Muhlenberg, if they finish 9-1.
*  Waynesburg/W&J, if they finish 9-1.
*  Salisbury, if they finish 9-1.
*  Case Western, if they finish 9-1.
*  UMHB, if they finish 9-1.
*  Wheaton, if they finish 9-1.
*  Alfred, if they finish 9-1.
*  Central, if they finish 9-1.
*  RPI, if they finish 9-1.
*  St. Norbert, if they finish 9-1.
*  St. John's/Bethel/St. Olaf, if any of them finish with one loss.
*  Cortland St./TCNJ/Montclair St., if any of them finish with one loss.
*  Capital/Mt. Union, if they finish 9-1.
*  Occidental, if they finish 9-1.
*  UW-Stevens Point, if they finish 9-1.

I think the Pool C slots will all go to 9-1 teams this year, and that a Pool B-eligible team could legitimately sneak in and take a Pool C--especially if the ACFC and the UAA both finish with two 9-1 teams (the NWC looks likely to only get one this year, due to a jumble of previous losses by teams contending for their conference title).   

IMO, that's all pretty solid reasoning, but invite anyone and everyone to poke holes in it--that's what the message boards are for, after all!   :)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 17, 2007, 12:34:03 PM
Good post, Josh ... but actually should Rhodes win out and Trinity win out then there's a three way tie in the SCAC and Rhodes could get the AQ.  It seems unlikely given the skin-of-their teeth wins (e.g. a one-point win last week against a CC team that had to use its best WR at QB the second half due to injuries) and poor performance early in the season, but it's still possible. 

I remember 2005 was a similar season to this, with many one loss teams, and a lot of potential 9-1's went down unexpectedly the last week.  Will be interesting to see if that happens again in '07. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 17, 2007, 12:52:06 PM
True. 

Rhodes does already have an out-of-conference loss, however, which I think effectively removes them from Pool C consideration--ergo, their only hope is for a three-way tie atop the SCAC (which happens if Trinity beats Millsaps next week and everyone wins out).

How does the SCAC break ties, Ron?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 17, 2007, 01:20:51 PM
+1 Josh!  :)

The ASC breaks multiple ties by coin flip instead of point spread.

I don't know where the Tie-breaker section has gone.  :-\
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 17, 2007, 02:19:07 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on October 17, 2007, 12:52:06 PM
True. 

Rhodes does already have an out-of-conference loss, however, which I think effectively removes them from Pool C consideration--ergo, their only hope is for a three-way tie atop the SCAC (which happens if Trinity beats Millsaps next week and everyone wins out).

How does the SCAC break ties, Ron?

Unfortunately the SCAC removed their sport-specific policy manuals from their website, Josh, so I don't know.  Perhaps our good South Region reporter can contact the SCAC and use the info in a future column. 

Yeah, for Rhodes it's Pool A or bust. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: DPU3619 on October 17, 2007, 04:55:10 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on October 17, 2007, 02:19:07 PM
Unfortunately the SCAC removed their sport-specific policy manuals from their website, Josh, so I don't know.  Perhaps our good South Region reporter can contact the SCAC and use the info in a future column. 

Hint hint.  Wink wink.  Nudge Nudge, there eh, Ron?

I had spoken with DePauw Sports Information and had sent an email to the home office earlier today because I had a few readers inquire about that very issue. 

In the event of a 3 way tie between Rhodes, Milsaps, and Trinity, the tiebreak would be number of losses.  So Trinity would win the AQ at 9-1 while MC and RC are out at 8-2.

The home office tells me to keep in mind this isn't the tiebreak for all 3 way ties.  Something about non-conference games or something.

If one team was eliminated from such a tiebreak, you would then revert to head-to-head victory for the two remaining teams. 

In such an event that all three teams shared a similiar numbers of losses, the tiebreak would be the beloved OWP. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Carl Menist on October 17, 2007, 05:19:07 PM
Quote from: Wes Anderson (DPU3619) on October 17, 2007, 04:55:10 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on October 17, 2007, 02:19:07 PM
Unfortunately the SCAC removed their sport-specific policy manuals from their website, Josh, so I don't know.  Perhaps our good South Region reporter can contact the SCAC and use the info in a future column. 

Hint hint.  Wink wink.  Nudge Nudge, there eh, Ron?

I had spoken with DePauw Sports Information and had sent an email to the home office earlier today because I had a few readers inquire about that very issue. 

In the event of a 3 way tie between Rhodes, Milsaps, and Trinity, the tiebreak would be number of losses.  So Trinity would win the AQ at 9-1 while MC and RC are out at 8-2.

The home office tells me to keep in mind this isn't the tiebreak for all 3 way ties.  Something about non-conference games or something.

If one team was eliminated from such a tiebreak, you would then revert to head-to-head victory for the two remaining teams. 

In such an event that all three teams shared a similiar numbers of losses, the tiebreak would be the beloved OWP. 

When it all gets down to it you just have to win! With something as important as a conference championship and an NCAA playoff bid, that is how it should be.

I think that may be why the chatter on the message board is down. Not really a whole lot to say at this point.

It is down to the "nut cutting".


Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Major Rev on October 17, 2007, 08:20:23 PM
I think that's exactly it, Big C.  These two weeks will tell the story.  (Had noticed that myself...)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on October 18, 2007, 12:24:27 AM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on October 17, 2007, 11:33:40 AM


Here's my take on the South right now:


ODAC:  Randolph Macon/Bridgewater--I think a 2-loss ODAC team is out of the running for a Pool C this year, so the winner of this game takes all here.

IMO, that's all pretty solid reasoning, but invite anyone and everyone to poke holes in it--that's what the message boards are for, after all!   :)

If Bridgewater wins out thus eliminating RMC and HSC wins out, both BC & HSC finish 5-1 in conference and HSC holds head-to-head tie breaker for automatic bid. BC would drop into the 9-1 teams vying for a Pool C.

note: 4 tough games for BC so this may not be likely but it is possible.  ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Highlander on October 18, 2007, 12:28:48 AM
Concerning the USASOUTH Conf.- It was stated that no three loss team would get an at large bid. Does anyone think there might be a slight chance Maryville could get an at large if they are able to win out. That would give them an 8-2 record. With their losses coming to NCWC and CNU. Definitely not trying to put the cart before the horse, or trying to say that MC should get a bid. I am just curious to know what everyone else thinks.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 18, 2007, 01:00:43 AM
I believe there has been one 8-2 team to get a Pool C bid, and that was Capital. One of the losses was to Mount Union, of course.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Highlander on October 18, 2007, 01:15:02 AM
Thanks for the reply Pat. Even if MC cannot win the conf. or make the show, they have made some tremendous improvment and can be one of only six teams at Maryville to win eight or more games. They have several things to be proud of and to build on in future seasons.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: DPU3619 on October 18, 2007, 08:24:16 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 17, 2007, 01:20:51 PM
The ASC breaks multiple ties by coin flip instead of point spread.

I don't know where the Tie-breaker section has gone.  :-\

Ralph, I just want to make sure all of my ducks are in a row here.

If UMHB, MC, and HSU all finish the conference schedule at 7-1, they would be break the tie by coinflips despite a difference in overall record? 

In theory, MC could finish 9-1, UMHB could finish 8-2, and HSU could finish 7-3. 

Obv. none of this would matter if UMHB rolls on Saturday, but I just want to make sure I'm following along on the appropriate page.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 18, 2007, 08:33:53 AM
Wes, I will try to get back to you on Friday pm.  I think that is what I remember about the tie-breaker on the old web site.

ASC fans will remember the 2003 season (http://www.d3football.com/previous_info.php?school=East+Texas+Baptist&year=2003) when the tiebreaker was a variation of victory margin model.  ETBU won the tie-breaker solely because HSU did not get to attempt the PAT in their overtime victory over ETBU.  HSU scored the TD in OT to win 20-14 and thus did not need the PAT to win.  That PAT was the final margin of victory in the three-way calculation.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Toby Taff on October 18, 2007, 09:24:58 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 18, 2007, 08:33:53 AM
Wes, I will try to get back to you on Friday pm.  I think that is what I remember about the tie-breaker on the old web site.

ASC fans will remember the 2003 season (http://www.d3football.com/previous_info.php?school=East+Texas+Baptist&year=2003) when the tiebreaker was a variation of victory margin model.  ETBU won the tie-breaker solely because HSU did not get to attempt the PAT in their overtime victory over ETBU.  HSU scored the TD in OT to win 20-14 and thus did not need the PAT to win.  That PAT was the final margin of victory in the three-way calculation.

If I'm not mistaken, UMHB could have also won had they chosen to kick a field goal in OT against ETBU rather than going for the td.


I do remember correctly.
http://www.d3football.com/story.php?story=1938 (http://www.d3football.com/story.php?story=1938)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 18, 2007, 11:24:39 AM
Quote from: mhb8904 on October 18, 2007, 09:24:58 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 18, 2007, 08:33:53 AM
Wes, I will try to get back to you on Friday pm.  I think that is what I remember about the tie-breaker on the old web site.

ASC fans will remember the 2003 season (http://www.d3football.com/previous_info.php?school=East+Texas+Baptist&year=2003) when the tiebreaker was a variation of victory margin model.  ETBU won the tie-breaker solely because HSU did not get to attempt the PAT in their overtime victory over ETBU.  HSU scored the TD in OT to win 20-14 and thus did not need the PAT to win.  That PAT was the final margin of victory in the three-way calculation.

If I'm not mistaken, UMHB could have also won had they chosen to kick a field goal in OT against ETBU rather than going for the td.


I do remember correctly.
http://www.d3football.com/story.php?story=1938 (http://www.d3football.com/story.php?story=1938)
So, concede the battle but win the war.  :)

However, UMHB was going for 10-0 and home field advantage in the playoffs.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 18, 2007, 11:37:33 AM
http://www.d3football.com/notables/2007/10/18/Strength+of+schedule

Strength of Schedule numbers are out.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Snakehandler on October 18, 2007, 12:07:54 PM
Wow, I may have to rethink my pairings. The Salisbury/ Wesley winner may end up being the #1.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 18, 2007, 12:14:40 PM
snake, no need to change them for any reason right now.

The numbers are still muddy because of the limited statistical sample (5-6 games overall, 3-4 in region for many).

The numbers will mean more once more games are played (batting average based on less than 100 ab's is too volatile).

Thanks for your work.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on October 18, 2007, 12:23:57 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 18, 2007, 11:37:33 AM
http://www.d3football.com/notables/2007/10/18/Strength+of+schedule

Strength of Schedule numbers are out.

Shesh.  And this is supposed to be easier than QOWI?   :P
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 18, 2007, 12:24:46 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on October 18, 2007, 12:23:57 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 18, 2007, 11:37:33 AM
http://www.d3football.com/notables/2007/10/18/Strength+of+schedule

Strength of Schedule numbers are out.

Shesh.  And this is supposed to be easier than QOWI?   :P

No, just more meaningful. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 18, 2007, 02:36:23 PM
Ron hit the nail on the head.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: DPU3619 on October 18, 2007, 07:22:26 PM
After getting on the horn with ASC home office, here is the tiebreak scenario:

A two way tie would be solved by head-to-head record.  There are many other tiebreaks to follow that, but they won't be necessary since everybody has played each other.

Now, for a three way tie (por ejemplo: UMHB, MC, and HSU), I point you directly to the handbook:

Quote
In the event of a three-way or more tie that cannot be broken by the record against the tied teams followed by record against other conference opponents in descending order, the Commissioner shall conduct a draw with the tied teams to determine the conference's automatic qualifier to the NCAA Division III Football Championship.

Obviously, the record against the tied teams would not result in anything. 

The next tiebreak would be record against conference opponents in descending order.  Since nobody lost to anybody from ETBU on down to the bottom, we'd be looking at a draw situation, it seems. 

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Toby Taff on October 19, 2007, 12:47:54 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 18, 2007, 11:24:39 AM
Quote from: mhb8904 on October 18, 2007, 09:24:58 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 18, 2007, 08:33:53 AM
Wes, I will try to get back to you on Friday pm.  I think that is what I remember about the tie-breaker on the old web site.

ASC fans will remember the 2003 season (http://www.d3football.com/previous_info.php?school=East+Texas+Baptist&year=2003) when the tiebreaker was a variation of victory margin model.  ETBU won the tie-breaker solely because HSU did not get to attempt the PAT in their overtime victory over ETBU.  HSU scored the TD in OT to win 20-14 and thus did not need the PAT to win.  That PAT was the final margin of victory in the three-way calculation.

If I'm not mistaken, UMHB could have also won had they chosen to kick a field goal in OT against ETBU rather than going for the td.


I do remember correctly.
http://www.d3football.com/story.php?story=1938 (http://www.d3football.com/story.php?story=1938)
So, concede the battle but win the war.  :)

However, UMHB was going for 10-0 and home field advantage in the playoffs.

I'm glad UMHB went for the win, but the tie-breaker was hard to swallow. :P
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on October 21, 2007, 10:16:44 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on October 18, 2007, 12:24:46 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on October 18, 2007, 12:23:57 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 18, 2007, 11:37:33 AM
http://www.d3football.com/notables/2007/10/18/Strength+of+schedule

Strength of Schedule numbers are out.

Shesh.  And this is supposed to be easier than QOWI?   :P

No, just more meaningful. 

I don't agree, at least not across the board. Mount Union is ranked #207 and they play in the OAC. I know the number will go up in future weeks but the OAC as a conference is better than those numbers. Period!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 21, 2007, 10:58:37 AM
Quote from: Llamaguy on October 21, 2007, 10:16:44 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on October 18, 2007, 12:24:46 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on October 18, 2007, 12:23:57 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 18, 2007, 11:37:33 AM
http://www.d3football.com/notables/2007/10/18/Strength+of+schedule

Strength of Schedule numbers are out.

Shesh.  And this is supposed to be easier than QOWI?   :P

No, just more meaningful. 

I don't agree, at least not across the board. Mount Union is ranked #207 and they play in the OAC. I know the number will go up in future weeks but the OAC as a conference is better than those numbers. Period!
Llamaguy, you are seeing the impact of the in-region records (last week) of Averett (0-6), Otterbein (3-3), Muskingum (0-6), Heidelberg (2-4), ONU (4-2) and Wilmington (1-5).

Also, MUC is catching the statistical "whammy" of being at the bottom of the downside of the distribution curve before it really flattens out with some of the weaker teams.  MUC doesn't get to count its game with MUC in its stat, as Capital and Otterbein do.  ;)

The Averett game is what really hurts MUC.  As I look at MUC's calculation, the OWP is .333 (10-20)  Averett is winless (0-6).  If Averett's only loss is to MUC and they are (5-1), that raises the OWP to 15-15 (.500), which is good for a tie for 113th/114th where Central and UMHB are, and about where a statistician would predict for a 230-team sample size.

These changes will ameliorate themselves to some degree, but the Averett game is the one that hurts them most.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on October 21, 2007, 12:27:21 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 21, 2007, 10:58:37 AM
Quote from: Llamaguy on October 21, 2007, 10:16:44 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on October 18, 2007, 12:24:46 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on October 18, 2007, 12:23:57 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 18, 2007, 11:37:33 AM
http://www.d3football.com/notables/2007/10/18/Strength+of+schedule

Strength of Schedule numbers are out.

Shesh.  And this is supposed to be easier than QOWI?   :P

No, just more meaningful. 

I don't agree, at least not across the board. Mount Union is ranked #207 and they play in the OAC. I know the number will go up in future weeks but the OAC as a conference is better than those numbers. Period!
Llamaguy, you are seeing the impact of the in-region records (last week) of Averett (0-6), Otterbein (3-3), Muskingum (0-6), Heidelberg (2-4), ONU (4-2) and Wilmington (1-5).

Also, MUC is catching the statistical "whammy" of being at the bottom of the downside of the distribution curve before it really flattens out with some of the weaker teams.  MUC doesn't get to count its game with MUC in its stat, as Capital and Otterbein do.  ;)

The Averett game is what really hurts MUC.  As I look at MUC's calculation, the OWP is .333 (10-20)  Averett is winless (0-6).  If Averett's only loss is to MUC and they are (5-1), that raises the OWP to 15-15 (.500), which is good for a tie for 113th/114th where Central and UMHB are, and about where a statistician would predict for a 230-team sample size.

These changes will ameliorate themselves to some degree, but the Averett game is the one that hurts them most.

How right you are my friend! Bridgewater is in the same boat as LaGrange will most likely finish 0-10, Shenandoah 1-9, and McDaniel 1-9. Two of those teams were in the playoffs just a few years ago. Word is BC is picking up Averret to replace McDaniel and possibly Frostburg to replace LaGrange, not sure that will help much next year. :-\

CNU85, swing away!  ;D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 21, 2007, 12:31:59 PM
Those two teams have two winning seasons in the past six. It's time to give up the spin.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on October 21, 2007, 12:36:36 PM
Huge games with Playoff implications nationwide next weekend:

Salisbury vs. Wesley
Wabash vs. Wooster
Capital vs. Mt Union
UW-Whitewater vs. UMHB
Muhlenburg vs. Dickinson
W&J vs. Waynesburg
Curry vs. Nichols
Occidental vs. Cal Lutheran
Millsaps vs. Trinity
Mt. St. Joseph vs. Defiance
Coast Guard vs. Maine Maritime
New Jersey vs. Cortland St.
CNU vs. North Carolina Wesleyan

Call it Separation Saturday,if you win you are one step closer to getting in, lose and you may be home watching. Three great weeks of football remaining.

I will be posting the South Region Playoff watch for the first time this year on Wednesday. Its going to be a wild and bumpy ride.  ;D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on October 21, 2007, 12:45:58 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 21, 2007, 12:31:59 PM
Those two teams have two winning seasons in the past six. It's time to give up the spin.

LOL! No spin needed as one may soon join the ODAC so we would be stuck with them anyway. How about BC picks CNU back up?  :o :o

It is what it is. I still think it will be interesting to see how the committee uses the new formula. You surely can't defend to me that Washington University has the 56th strongest schedule in D-III, can you?

The power conferences(ie. WIAC) beat themselves up playing tough teams in conference. Looks to me the way to go is to be in "middle of the road conference" (ie. HCAC) and schedule one or 2 teams you know will be around .500 or better and 1 powerhouse you know you will lose to but will get you a 10-0 owp.  ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 21, 2007, 01:07:29 PM
Actually, the OWP is a more precise version of the QOWI.  The QOWI "modulated" the opponents' winning percentage into four strata of percentages, then win and lose, and home and away to give the 16 levels of distinction, on a 0 to 15 scale, as opposed to 1001 levels of distinction between .000 and 1.000.

It is the OOWP that is really new, and is dervied from the OWP calculations.

The secret to having a good OWP and OOWP is what the UAA and the NESCAC schools have done so well.  Find beatable teams that will be above average in less than the toughest conferences and then work from there.

Wash StL is strategically located in the South Football Region and Region #4 Adminstrative Region and in the 4-member UAA.  They can cherry-pick the 7 non-conference games from teams in IL, WI and into the South Region that will give them the best chance at a Pool B bid.  The OOWP might be brought done a little, if the more mediocre teams in that opponent's conference were getting slammed.

However, we have seen this formula play out this way in NESCAC hoops for years.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on October 21, 2007, 02:05:15 PM
Frostburg only has 4 region games this year and that's  if Westminster counts. But I guess 0-4 is the same as 0-7 except for oowp. And the only team that benefits is a team they beat in Randolph- Macon
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 21, 2007, 02:23:57 PM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on October 21, 2007, 02:05:15 PM
Frostburg only has 4 region games this year and that's  if Westminster counts. But I guess 0-4 is the same as 0-7 except for oowp. And the only team that benefits is a team they beat in Randolph- Macon
That is an in-region game, because both teams are in the South Evaluation Region.
Title: 2007 South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Llamaguy on October 24, 2007, 03:00:27 AM
Week #8 Comparison

* ranking will be based on current (OWP) "opponent's winning %" w/in each loss column
@ - indicates teams eligible for Pool B bids
( ) NCAA South Region Ranking released 10/24/07

AFCA rankings released 10/23/07

* D3 & AFCA rankings are not considered by the commitee during the selection process, they are only listed for informational purposes.

(OWP/OOWP) = opponents winning % / opponent's opponents winning % : which is a marker for the Strength of Schedule for each team. The higher the OWP the tougher the schedule. If 2 teams have a similar OWP then a higher OOWP suggests a tougher schedule. Thus it is a way to see which team may rate out higher in the selection committee's eyes for the Strength of Schedule portion of the primary section criteria for inclusion into the playoff field.

"0" SOUTH REGION LOSS TEAMS w/ (regional w/l)  (overall w/l)    (OWP/OOWP)

1.  SALISBURY @ (3)                (4-0) (8-0)      (0.692 / 0.458)      D3 #9       AFCA #8
2.  UMHB (1)                           (7-0) (7-0)      (0.531 / 0.525)      D3 #2       AFCA #2
3.  MUHLENBURG (5)                 (7-0) (7-0)      (0.454 / 0.615)      D3#20      AFCA#17
4.  WASH & JEFFERSON (2)        (4-0) (7-0)      (0.407 / 0.619)      D3#8        AFCA#7
5.  WAYNESBURG (6)                (6-0) (7-0)       (0.369 / 0.551)                    AFCA#21
                                 

"1" SOUTH REGION LOSS TEAMS

1.   WESLEY @ (4)                  (5-1) (7-1)       (0.767 / 0.547)      D3 #10     AFCA #11
2.   WASHINGTON U. @ (9)       (6-1) (6-1)       (0.609 / 0.542)       
3.   MILLSAPS (7)                    (6-1) (6-1)       (0.514 / 0.490)      D3#24             
4.   TRINITY (TX) (8 )              (5-1) (6-1)       (0.483 / 0.513)      D3#19      AFCA#20     
5.   DICKINSON                       (6-1) (6-1)       (0.476 / 0.596)     
6.   RANDOLPH MACON             (6-1) (6-1)       (0.433 / 0.649)                       
7.   NC WESLEYAN                  (5-1) (5-2)       (0.433 / 0.576)                     
8.   BRIDGEWATER (10)            (6-1) (6-1)       (0.407 / 0.564)                    AFCA #19
9.   URSINUS                          (5-1) (6-1)       (0.234 / 0.624)

"2" SOUTH REGION LOSS TEAMS

1.   CNU                               (4-2) (5-2)       (0.600 / 0.503)
2.   RHODES                          (4-2) (5-2)       (0.594 / 0.511)
3.   HAMPDEN-SYDNEY            (6-2) (6-2)       (0.535 / 0.572)
4.   DEPAUW                         (4-2) (5-2)       (0.489 / 0.480)
5.   WASH. & LEE                   (4-2) (4-2)       (0.486 / 0.496)
6.   MARYVILLE                      (5-2) (5-2)       (0.476 / 0.471)
7.   MISS. COLLEGE                (5-2) (5-2)        (0.446 / 0.553)
8.   SUL ROSS ST.                 (4-2) (5-2)        (0.434 / 0.510)
9.   EAST TX BAPTIST            (5-2) (5-3)        (0.424 / 0.499)


* Once a team has more than 2 losses in region they will drop from consideration as the season progresses. Note: Pool A (automatic qualifiers) will throw "a wrench" into the number of spots available in the South Region.

Total spots available in the DIII Playoff Field = 32. 22 Pool A "automatic qualifiers"; 3 Pool B, and 7 Pool C qualifiers, nationwide.


South Region (Pool A) Berths (Conference Champions w/ Auto-bids)

American Southwest Conference -
Centennial Conference -
Old Dominion Athletic Conference -
Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference -
USA South Athletic Conference -

* conference champions to be updated once official     


Note: To take a look at  the nationwide list of Pool C contenders refer to the Pool C -- 2007 thread on the General Football Post Patterns board.

Any corrections would be greatly appreciated.
   


 



Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on October 24, 2007, 03:11:46 AM
A few thoughts after compiling the info this year:

1. It will be interesting to see how the committee uses the Strength of Schedule vs. the Regional W/L record to decide the field. Will a 2-loss team with an above 0.600 OWP get in over a 1-loss team in the 0.400's? How much of % difference in OWP is really significant? - note this is one of many criteria but will potentially allow comparing apples to apples when evaluating a team's entire season.

2. I don't think other than CNU, that any of the current 2-loss teams have a great shot at getting in, but quite a few of the 1-loss teams have a high enough OWP that should they lose another game they may still be viewed stronger than some of the 1-loss teams with weaker schedules. That being said, there will be a lot of fluctuation in the OWP week to week so things could change fast. A good example is Linfield in Pool B, right now their OWP is decent but they play a zero and one win team in the final 3 weeks. Every team you have played affects your OWP number every week. Should be interesting to follow.

3. Within the next 2 weeks we will be able to weed out the South Region Pool C contenders and compare them nationally as more of the automatic bid conferences shake out. There will be a lot of movement with so many important games this weekend.  ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on October 24, 2007, 08:59:52 AM
Llama,

Well done, my friend. Very informative.

Like you said, this weekend will probably shorten and strengthen this list.

Should be a fun one!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: HunterT on October 26, 2007, 07:10:03 PM
Llama, that's pretty impressive stats there.

Only one question... Where's Rhodes? they're only a 2 loss team at this point.

I understand that they don't have a good shot at a playoff bid unless an earthquake causes football to become extinct at Millsaps and Trinity, but I would love to see their stats in that breakdown.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on October 26, 2007, 08:51:28 PM
Quote from: HunterT on October 26, 2007, 07:10:03 PM
Llama, that's pretty impressive stats there.

Only one question... Where's Rhodes? they're only a 2 loss team at this point.

I understand that they don't have a good shot at a playoff bid unless an earthquake causes football to become extinct at Millsaps and Trinity, but I would love to see their stats in that breakdown.
Thanks for the heads up. They have been added.  ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: HunterT on October 26, 2007, 09:04:26 PM
thanks. nice to see they slide in at #2 in the two loss teams.
Title: Re: 2007 South Region Playoff Watch
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 27, 2007, 09:48:29 PM
Llama, let me scribble on the post...

Quote from: Llamaguy on October 24, 2007, 03:00:27 AM
Week #8 Comparison

* ranking will be based on current (OWP) "opponent's winning %" w/in each loss column
@ - indicates teams eligible for Pool B bids
( ) NCAA South Region Ranking released 10/24/07

AFCA rankings released 10/23/07

* D3 & AFCA rankings are not considered by the commitee during the selection process, they are only listed for informational purposes.

(OWP/OOWP) = opponents winning % / opponent's opponents winning % : which is a marker for the Strength of Schedule for each team. The higher the OWP the tougher the schedule. If 2 teams have a similar OWP then a higher OOWP suggests a tougher schedule. Thus it is a way to see which team may rate out higher in the selection committee's eyes for the Strength of Schedule portion of the primary section criteria for inclusion into the playoff field.

"0" SOUTH REGION LOSS TEAMS w/ (regional w/l)  (overall w/l)    (OWP/OOWP)



3.  MUHLENBERG (5)                 (7-0) (7-0)      (0.454 / 0.615)      D3#20      AFCA#17
4.  WASH & JEFFERSON (2)        (4-0) (7-0)      (0.407 / 0.619)      D3#8        AFCA#7


"1" SOUTH REGION LOSS TEAMS

1.  SALISBURY @ (3)                (4-0) (8-0)      (0.692 / 0.458)      D3 #9       AFCA #8

2.  UMHB (1)                           (7-0) (7-0)      (0.531 / 0.525)      D3 #2       AFCA #2

5.  WAYNESBURG (6)                (6-0) (7-0)       (0.369 / 0.551)                    AFCA#21
                     
 
           


1.   WESLEY @ (4)                  (5-1) (7-1)       (0.767 / 0.547)      D3 #10     AFCA #11
           
4.   TRINITY (TX) (8 )              (5-1) (6-1)       (0.483 / 0.513)      D3#19      AFCA#20     
     
6.   RANDOLPH MACON             (6-1) (6-1)       (0.433 / 0.649)                       
7.   NC WESLEYAN                  (5-1) (5-2)       (0.433 / 0.576)                     

9.   URSINUS                          (5-1) (6-1)       (0.234 / 0.624)

"2" SOUTH REGION LOSS TEAMS

2.   WASHINGTON U. @ (9)       (6-1) (6-1)       (0.609 / 0.542)       

3.   MILLSAPS (7)                    (6-1) (6-1)       (0.514 / 0.490)      D3#24

5.   DICKINSON                       (6-1) (6-1)       (0.476 / 0.596)

8.   BRIDGEWATER (10)            (6-1) (6-1)       (0.407 / 0.564)                    AFCA #19


1.   CNU                               (4-2) (5-2)       (0.600 / 0.503)

2.   RHODES                          (4-2) (5-2)       (0.594 / 0.511)
3.   HAMPDEN-SYDNEY            (6-2) (6-2)       (0.535 / 0.572)
4.   DEPAUW                         (4-2) (5-2)       (0.489 / 0.480)
5.   WASH. & LEE                   (4-2) (4-2)       (0.486 / 0.496)
6.   MARYVILLE                      (5-2) (5-2)       (0.476 / 0.471)
7.   MISS. COLLEGE                (5-2) (5-2)        (0.446 / 0.553)
8.   SUL ROSS ST.                 (4-2) (5-2)        (0.434 / 0.510)
9.   EAST TX BAPTIST            (5-2) (5-3)        (0.424 / 0.499)


* Once a team has more than 2 losses in region they will drop from consideration as the season progresses. Note: Pool A (automatic qualifiers) will throw "a wrench" into the number of spots available in the South Region.

Total spots available in the DIII Playoff Field = 32. 22 Pool A "automatic qualifiers"; 3 Pool B, and 7 Pool C qualifiers, nationwide.


South Region (Pool A) Berths (Conference Champions w/ Auto-bids)

American Southwest Conference -
Centennial Conference -
Old Dominion Athletic Conference -
Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference -
USA South Athletic Conference -

* conference champions to be updated once official     


Note: To take a look at  the nationwide list of Pool C contenders refer to the Pool C -- 2007 thread on the General Football Post Patterns board.

Any corrections would be greatly appreciated.

With two weeks left, the only hope for a 2-loss team is to win the conference!

I have not updated the season records.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on October 28, 2007, 01:18:53 AM
-4 karma points in ten minutes geesh glad I didn't step on any toes!!!!

Ralph

Do you think Salisbury gets put in the East if those boys keep knocking each other off. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 28, 2007, 01:38:04 AM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on October 28, 2007, 01:18:53 AM
Ralph

Do you think Salisbury gets put in the East if those boys keep knocking each other off. 
No I don't think so, because the NCAA has no problem with second round match-ups.

I think that the "East" bracket includes:

NJAC
LL
E8
NEFC
MAC
Pool C from upstate NY
Pool C from upstate NY
Case Western Reserve, which gets moved into the East.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 28, 2007, 01:42:09 AM
I am really looking forward to this week's Regional Rankings. :)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on October 28, 2007, 01:49:24 AM
Wesley is done with region games and I don't see Frostburg beating Salisbury but I didn't think there was any way Morrisville beats Brockport either.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on October 28, 2007, 02:31:14 PM
Ralph

Do you think that UWW could take the # 1 seed away from Mt Union?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 28, 2007, 03:18:17 PM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on October 28, 2007, 02:31:14 PM
Ralph

Do you think that UWW could take the # 1 seed away from Mt Union?


Great question!
I don't know.  CNU's losing to NCWC hurt UMHB and everyone else in that "tree".
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on October 28, 2007, 03:36:07 PM
Looks good Ralph! I'll update everything probably Tuesday evening when the new SOS is released, unless it comes out earlier this week.

IMHO Wesley & Salisbury have 2 of the 3 Pool B's locked. Case Western has the other until next weekends game with Washington U., they win they are in, they lose, they are teetering on the fence.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 29, 2007, 05:30:23 PM
LLAMA and RALPH,

What are the odds that the PAC may send two teams to the big dance this year for the first time ever?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 29, 2007, 05:47:33 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on October 29, 2007, 05:30:23 PM
LLAMA and RALPH,

What are the odds that the PAC may send two teams to the big dance this year for the first time ever?
The problems with Waynesburg are these.

The wins over Muskingum and Wooster bring down the team's stats.


The games against Geneva and St Vincent won't count towards playoff stats until 2009.


Let's see where the Regional Ranking puts them on Wednesday.

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 29, 2007, 07:07:23 PM
Quote from: Cleveland Cartel on October 29, 2007, 05:30:23 PM
LLAMA and RALPH,

What are the odds that the PAC may send two teams to the big dance this year for the first time ever?

Not the first time ever, Cartel.

2005--Thiel won the PAC title, beat Johns Hopkins, then lost to Bridgewater.
2005--Wash & Jeff lost in first round to Bridgewater
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 29, 2007, 08:00:29 PM
+1 Bob!  I failed to check 2005.  The link to the 2005 bracket is not activated on the "Playoffs" page, and I did not check it out manually!

:-\
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Cleveland Cartel on October 31, 2007, 09:34:07 PM
Great Catch bob i should bieng a Tomcat Alumn. 

I also added on the karma for you....

Bob,

Check out my post on the PAC site and see what you think.

Thanks

Cartel
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 31, 2007, 09:48:25 PM
Cartel,

A Pool C for the PAC is a longshot.  There just isn't the kind of nationwide respect.

But it is not out of the question.

A 9-1 Waynesburg University team would get a serious look.

But they have to win, even IF the Geneva game doesn't help them in the criteria.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 31, 2007, 09:55:48 PM
Bob, I have always thought that W&J got lots of respect nationwide.

Over on the Pool C board (http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=5445.105), I have Waynesburg as the first team coming off the board from the South Region for a Pool C bid.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 31, 2007, 10:30:04 PM
Ralph, I agree about W&J.

But Waynesburg's national respect this year will come as a team that lost to W&J.  That's not nearly the same, as you well know.

A 9-1 Waynesburg team will be the first South Pool C, if the committee gets to a Pool C from the South.

I know this:  late Saturday afternoon, Waynesburg became the biggest fan of every conference favorite across the country...
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 31, 2007, 10:42:39 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on October 31, 2007, 10:30:04 PM
Ralph, I agree about W&J.

But Waynesburg's national respect this year will come as a team that lost to W&J.  That's not nearly the same, as you well know.

A 9-1 Waynesburg team will be the first South Pool C, if the committee gets to a Pool C from the South.
Bob, I find it hard to believe that not a single Pool C bid will come from the South, especially with all of the 2-loss teams that seem to be populating the bottom of all 4 Regional Rankings.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: altor on October 31, 2007, 10:46:31 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 28, 2007, 01:38:04 AM
I think that the "East" bracket includes:

NJAC
LL
E8
NEFC
MAC
Pool C from upstate NY
Pool C from upstate NY
Case Western Reserve, which gets moved into the East.
Ralph,
being a "yankee" infiltrating this South Region discussion, I'm interested in who you have as the 9th playoff team in the North that requires the committee to move CWRU to the East?

The only team I can think of is 2-loss Capital.  Is that who you are thinking? Or are you considering them higher on the list and Mt St Joe as the 9th team?

Incidentally, something for this group to think about, I'm actually thinking that if Case loses on Saturday, they are out completely (Pool B and C).  The way I see it, this leaves an open spot in the North, which could possibly get filled by a 9-1 Waynesburg.  (?)  (At the moment, I have Capital as the best 2-loss team, but they don't have a line in my bracket....yet)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on October 31, 2007, 11:19:34 PM
Well Waynesburg is ranked 6th in the NCAA South bracket. There may be some national respect for Waynesburg after all. From my recollection the Regional Top 10's are the teams on the NCAA's radar. If they stay a #6 and finish with 1 loss I think they will get in. IMO.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 01, 2007, 06:47:33 AM
I agree Llamaguy.

I think the committee gave Waynesburg plenty of credit, ranking them sixth in the South.

But they now need to win a game that doesn't count for them.

I know, I know, it's not in the criteria...But it IS on the mind...which makes it a criteria.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 07, 2007, 11:34:00 AM
As of today, who do you see as the 8 teams in the south?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 07, 2007, 11:42:32 AM
I think it's pretty cut-and-dry this year...

Mary Hardin-Baylor (ASC Champion) (Pool A)
Muhlenberg (CC Champion) (Pool A)
North Carolina Wesleyan (USAC Champion) (Pool A)
R-MC or H-SC (ODAC Champion) (Pool A)
Trinity or Millsaps (SCAC Champion) (Pool A)
Washington & Jefferson (PAC Champion) (Pool A)
Wesley (Pool B)
Salisbury (Pool B/C)

Obviously, with Waynesburg's loss to Geneva last week, they played themselves out of a possible Pool C berth. No other south region team (to my knowledge) has only one in-region loss.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Carl Menist on November 07, 2007, 01:18:27 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on November 07, 2007, 11:34:00 AM
As of today, who do you see as the 8 teams in the south?

Bill -

There is a good deal of disussion at the South Region fan poll section as well as the General / Pool C section. There are also similar regional posts in the East, North and West sections.

Based on these posts, many of which are very insightful and enlightening, it looks like the South could possibly have more than 8 teams with a reasonable shot at a bid.

The strongest regions are the North and South regions. There is some discussion that the East may only have 6 teams and the west maybe less than 8.

Based on the limited understanding I have, it seems that an advantage will accrue to the south because of Wesley and Salisbury being likely Pool B selections.

This coupled with the fact that NC Wesleyan in not ranked in the top 10, at least as of last week, provides an opportunity for the south to have up to 3 teams on the board for consideration for Pool C bids by the committee. If NC W moves into the top 10, 2 teams. The thing that is significant is that with Wesley and Salisbury likely getting Pool B invites, the 8, 9 and 10 teams have a chance for a look.

Based on the win loss records in region and the SOS numbers published this week, teams that could be included in the top 10 include the top 8 teams from last week followed by,( in order of regional record and SOS),  NC Wesleyian (7-1 / 7-2) SOS 49.7%, Millsaps (7-2 / 7-2) SOS 54.1%, Dickinson (7-2 /7-2) SOS 50.6, Hampton -Sydney (7-2 /7-2) SOS 49.3, Mississippi College (7-2 / 7-2) SOS 44.9 followed by other south region teams with 2 loses Washington and Lee, Depauw and Ursinus.

Important match-ups this week-end  include the Randolph -Macon / Hampton- Sydney game and the Trinity  / Austin College games for the remaining AQs. The first game is between 1 and 2 in the conference and is a championship game, Trinity is the favorite in the Austin game.

If RM or Trinity lose, they would be likely move to the short list for Pool C consideration.

One other interesting issue is the loss last week by Waynesburg to provisional Geneva. Technically, the committee looks at the in region results. for selection purposes. However, the loss last week to Geneva, a team with a pretty good record, could negatively effect Waynesburg when subjectiviy is brought into the equation. The Waynesburg numbers are (6-1 / 7-2) SOS 42.4%.

If you strictly took the South teams by record then by SOS, the list would be the same as last week, reshuffled in order just a bit with NC Wesleyian being added in at spot 8, Waynesburg moving down to 9, by virtue of it's 6-1 regional record, followed by Millsaps moving in at 10.

Based on the aforementioned strengths of the other regions, coupled with several head to head match-ups between other region's teams with one loss now just ahead of our south two loss  teams, gives Pool C eligible teams  making the final south rankings a reasonable shot a getting in in my opinion.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 07, 2007, 05:11:50 PM
Quote from: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 07, 2007, 11:42:32 AM
Obviously, with Waynesburg's loss to Geneva last week, they played themselves out of a possible Pool C berth. No other south region team (to my knowledge) has only one in-region loss.

Officially, Waynesburg's loss to Geneva is a non-factor.  They Golden Tornado is a first-year transitional team and the game is not included in the criteria.

Waynesburg is a one-regional-loss team.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 07, 2007, 05:39:14 PM
I think Matt has nailed it--the only real question in the South is the seeding/pairings.  And we know for sure the SCAC rep will visit Belton in the first round.
Title: NCAA Rankings Out --- South Below
Post by: Carl Menist on November 07, 2007, 05:41:49 PM
Interesting -

South 
1.  Washington and Jefferson  6-0 9-0 
2.  Wesley  6-1 8-1 
3.  Muhlenberg  9-0 9-0 
4.  Mary Hardin-Baylor  8-1 8-1 
5.  Salisbury  4-1 8-1 
6.  Trinity (Texas)  7-1 8-1 
7.  Randolph-Macon  8-1 8-1 
8.  Millsaps  7-2 7-2 
9.  Hampden-Sydney  6-2 7-2 
10.  Waynesburg  6-1 7-2 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: exmajor on November 07, 2007, 06:00:50 PM
Millsaps has only one conference loss, for what it is worth.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 07, 2007, 06:19:38 PM
It's in-region record followed by overall record.  Conference records are not a factor when seeding/selecting playoff teams. 

That said, good to see Millsaps move to #8.  There are a lot of two loss teams in all of the regions so the Majors' chances are looking up!

It is surprising that they dropped Waynesburg for losing a game against a provisional D3 member.  Millsaps needs to take care of business against B-SC, not that I expect there to be any doubt whatsoever about who wins that game.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Carl Menist on November 07, 2007, 06:33:37 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 07, 2007, 06:19:38 PM
It's in-region record followed by overall record.  Conference records are not a factor when seeding/selecting playoff teams. 

That said, good to see Millsaps move to #8.  There are a lot of two loss teams in all of the regions so the Majors' chances are looking up!

It is surprising that they dropped Waynesburg for losing a game against a provisional D3 member.  Millsaps needs to take care of business against B-SC, not that I expect there to be any doubt whatsoever about who wins that game.

Ron --- I am pretty pumped!!! --- even if things don't work out rith regard to a Pool C bid, it is very nice for Millsaps to be recognized in this way as a quality / top tier program. Mike Dubose, his staff and the young men that field the team deserve it!

Additionally, I am still pretty high on the Austin College 'Roos for this week-end!!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 07, 2007, 06:55:38 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 07, 2007, 06:19:38 PM

It is surprising that they dropped Waynesburg for losing a game against a provisional D3 member.  ...

Ron, I have another theory on the use of Geneva in the evaluations.  They have been a reliable "yardstick" in the secondary criteria, playing as a first-year provisional in the Pres AC.  They provided "common-opponent" status for Salisbury, W&J and Waynesburg.

http://www.d3football.com/school_info.php?year=2007&school=Geneva
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 07, 2007, 09:19:53 PM
Ralph, I would agree with the notion that you could use the secondary criteria when comparing Salisbury and Waynesburg.  And only then if you found most other things to be relatively equal, which their in-region record will not be.

Waynesburg 7-1
Salisbury 5-1
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: golden_dome on November 08, 2007, 02:05:13 AM
Ralph,
   I have a question for you, or anyone else who might know. At what point would Mississippi College jump Millsaps for a Pool C bid since they have the head to head win. I know the criteria, but how close would the teams have to be for the regional committee to go to head to head and put the Choctaws up for the next bid ahead of the Majors.
   Another question which builds on that one. Would Millsaps' potential win next weekend at BSC not count toward their regional record since BSC is a provisional? That would give Mississippi College a better regional record as well with one more win and equal losses and close the current gap between the two teams.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Carl Menist on November 08, 2007, 02:42:20 AM
Quote from: Chris Brooks on November 08, 2007, 02:05:13 AM
Ralph,
   I have a question for you, or anyone else who might know. At what point would Mississippi College jump Millsaps for a Pool C bid since they have the head to head win. I know the criteria, but how close would the teams have to be for the regional committee to go to head to head and put the Choctaws up for the next bid ahead of the Majors.
   Another question which builds on that one. Would Millsaps' potential win next weekend at BSC not count toward their regional record since BSC is a provisional? That would give Mississippi College a better regional record as well with one more win and equal losses and close the current gap between the two teams.

Chris - I wondered about the same thing. The head to head nod would clearly go to MC. I think the variance is in the OWP numbers - Millsaps is 54.1 or #62 whereas MC is 44.9 or #168.

I am not familiar with the details on teh BSC game and its effect in potentially benefiting MC in this case.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: golden_dome on November 08, 2007, 08:17:27 AM
Carl,
     I know they look at it, but I don't know how close the teams have to be in the rankings to apply it. MC's opponent winning percentage is killing them this year primarily due to an out of conference game against winless LaGrange. Right now I am assuming MC is 11th in the region with the possibility of moving up as high as 8th in the final week if things were to go right.
     Let's say Millsaps ends the season 7th in the region and MC finished 9th, would they then look at head to head if MC has one more regional win? I think there is a chance Millsaps gets passed this week by a couple teams if the BSC game does not count toward their regional record, but I'm not sure about that.   
     But one reason I asked the question was this. I think Millsaps will at least be in the conversation for a Pool C bid, probably 5-6 national teams ahead of MC assuming MC wins this weekend. But would someone bring up the head to head criteria between the two teams which could keep both out?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 08, 2007, 08:42:28 AM
Quote from: Chris Brooks on November 08, 2007, 02:05:13 AM
Ralph,
   I have a question for you, or anyone else who might know. At what point would Mississippi College jump Millsaps for a Pool C bid since they have the head to head win. I know the criteria, but how close would the teams have to be for the regional committee to go to head to head and put the Choctaws up for the next bid ahead of the Majors?

Chris, I believe that a win over HSU vaults MissColl over Millsaps into the #5-#7 position.  Millsaps with 2 South Region losses would possibly be out of the Rankings because of one-loss Mississippi College being "in".

Miss Coll compared to Trinity:

In-region record: 9-1 vs. 8-1
Common opponents: Victories over Millsaps, ETBU and TLU for both teams.
Records versus Regionally Ranked teams: 0-1 vs 0-0.

I think that Miss College gets a Pool C bid.


   Another question which builds on that one. Would Millsaps' potential win next weekend at BSC not count toward their regional record since BSC is a provisional?  That would give Mississippi College a better regional record as well with one more win and equal losses and close the current gap between the two teams.

Right!  The BSC game doesn't count in South Region record or for primary criteria for Millsaps or Trinity

I think that the HSU loss knocked you out of a Pool C bid.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 08, 2007, 12:01:49 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 07, 2007, 09:19:53 PM
Ralph, I would agree with the notion that you could use the secondary criteria when comparing Salisbury and Waynesburg.  And only then if you found most other things to be relatively equal, which their in-region record will not be.

Waynesburg 7-1
Salisbury 5-1

They tend to treat these two numbers as equal, actually. Remember this is not a math problem.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 08, 2007, 12:05:39 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 07, 2007, 06:55:38 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 07, 2007, 06:19:38 PM

It is surprising that they dropped Waynesburg for losing a game against a provisional D3 member.  ...

Ron, I have another theory on the use of Geneva in the evaluations.  They have been a reliable "yardstick" in the secondary criteria, playing as a first-year provisional in the Pres AC.  They provided "common-opponent" status for Salisbury, W&J and Waynesburg.

http://www.d3football.com/school_info.php?year=2007&school=Geneva

Especially since Geneva's Head Coach is....

*2nd Winningest Coach in Western Pennsylvania
*Among top five winningest coaches in the state of Pennsylvania
*Among the top ten winningest coaches in the states of
Pennsylvania, Ohio and West Virginia


**taken from Geneva website
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 08, 2007, 12:44:03 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 08, 2007, 12:01:49 PM

Remember this is not a math problem.

EXACTLY.  You have just spoken the exact point I have been trying to make.

It's not a math problem.  Otherwise, we'd just have the computer do it. But Humans are involved, weighing criteria and assigning subjective value to things on the board, and in the mind.

Thank you, d3football.com guru.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 08, 2007, 01:37:26 PM
Yeah -- the fact that it's not a math problem is the only spot where we agree. I can still point to criteria that support my point and you are pointing to human subjectivity. :)
Title: Pool C slots 8 through 19
Post by: Carl Menist on November 08, 2007, 01:41:29 PM
Pat / Wes / Ralph et al ---

Just left the following post at the projected brackets. Would be interested, as i think others with teams including in the rankings with the following copied from that post -

Pat - Thanks for your follow-up.

If you have time and this is a fair question - How do the 12 teams including in the rankings this week stack up? In other words, in yur view, who is #8 through #19 on the Pool C pecking order at this point?

Also, is the most significant secondary factor to OWP geography in most cases? Just trying to understand.

Thanks.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 08, 2007, 02:24:34 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 08, 2007, 12:05:39 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 07, 2007, 06:55:38 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 07, 2007, 06:19:38 PM

It is surprising that they dropped Waynesburg for losing a game against a provisional D3 member.  ...

Ron, I have another theory on the use of Geneva in the evaluations.  They have been a reliable "yardstick" in the secondary criteria, playing as a first-year provisional in the Pres AC.  They provided "common-opponent" status for Salisbury, W&J and Waynesburg.

http://www.d3football.com/school_info.php?year=2007&school=Geneva

Especially since Geneva's Head Coach is....

*2nd Winningest Coach in Western Pennsylvania
*Among top five winningest coaches in the state of Pennsylvania
*Among the top ten winningest coaches in the states of
Pennsylvania, Ohio and West Virginia


**taken from Geneva website***

***
none of which count one iota in the eyes of the committee.
Title: Re: Pool C slots 8 through 19
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 08, 2007, 02:31:06 PM
Quote from: Carl Menist on November 08, 2007, 01:41:29 PM
Pat / Wes / Ralph et al ---

Just left the following post at the projected brackets. Would be interested, as i think others with teams including in the rankings with the following copied from that post -

Pat - Thanks for your follow-up.

If you have time and this is a fair question - How do the 12 teams including in the rankings this week stack up? In other words, in yur view, who is #8 through #19 on the Pool C pecking order at this point?

Also, is the most significant secondary factor to OWP geography in most cases? Just trying to understand.

Thanks.

Carl, having followed Pat's projections for 6-7 years, I will defer to his knowledge (and his sources).

My "what if's" in these matters come down to looking at the game that you shouldn't have lost.  I really don't think that there are more than one team per region that is left "waiting at the alter, all dressed up and bouquet in hand,"  five teams at most.

The remaining "Regionally Ranked Teams" just help the coach's resume.  However, the final rankings are never released, like the D-1 coach who won the Furniture Bowl and finished #25 in the USA Today Top 25.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 08, 2007, 02:37:43 PM
Quote from: Matt Barnhart (kid) on November 07, 2007, 11:42:32 AM
I think it's pretty cut-and-dry this year...

Mary Hardin-Baylor (ASC Champion) (Pool A)
Muhlenberg (CC Champion) (Pool A)
North Carolina Wesleyan (USAC Champion) (Pool A)
R-MC or H-SC (ODAC Champion) (Pool A)
Trinity or Millsaps (SCAC Champion) (Pool A)
Washington & Jefferson (PAC Champion) (Pool A)
Wesley (Pool B)
Salisbury (Pool B/C)


I think Muhlenberg gets the #1 seed in the East....And to answer the first question that will come out of that, the Mules beat the East's #1 team--New Jersey, AT New Jersey...

And Muhlenberg owns a win against one of the LL's co-leaders...
Title: Re: Pool C slots 8 through 19
Post by: Carl Menist on November 08, 2007, 02:40:20 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 08, 2007, 02:31:06 PM
Quote from: Carl Menist on November 08, 2007, 01:41:29 PM
Pat / Wes / Ralph et al ---

Just left the following post at the projected brackets. Would be interested, as i think others with teams including in the rankings with the following copied from that post -

Pat - Thanks for your follow-up.

If you have time and this is a fair question - How do the 12 teams including in the rankings this week stack up? In other words, in yur view, who is #8 through #19 on the Pool C pecking order at this point?

Also, is the most significant secondary factor to OWP geography in most cases? Just trying to understand.

Thanks.

Carl, having followed Pat's projections for 6-7 years, I will defer to his knowledge (and his sources).

My "what if's" in these matters come down to looking at the game that you shouldn't have lost.  I really don't think that there are more than one team per region that is left "waiting at the alter, all dressed up and bouquet in hand,"  five teams at most.

The remaining "Regionally Ranked Teams" just help the coach's resume.  However, the final rankings are never released, like the D-1 coach who won the Furniture Bowl and finished #25 in the USA Today Top 25.

Thanks Ralph. So with regard to Millsaps, it should be one of the 4 or 5 by virtue of it being the first south team not including in Pat's bracket?

Following is a post i just sent to Josh, You have answered the question with your above comments. any futher thoughts from you or others would be of interest.

To Josh -

Quote from: Josh Bowerman on November 08, 2007, 02:17:33 PM
It's 'Galactic Overlord', yessir.  Get it right.   :)

I personally find a lot to question in the picks posted in the Daily Dose.  They assume that SOS isn't going to weigh as heavily into the Pool C discussion as I personal think it will.



Josh - will you take a look at my question over on the playoff post, out at Pat's projection.

I certainly Have a high regard for pat's insight, but I really expected the SOS to be a little more heavily weighted.

I thought that several of the one loss west teams would lose this week-end( duh because they are playing head to head) and that that would be a benifit to 2 loss teams wit pretty good SOSs. based on my spread of the Pool B canidates, Millsaps is number 6 per my assumptions / spreadwith a couple of teams with higher SOS'
s just above them that have fairly tough games this week-end they might lose - Capital, North central / Carthage, Hobart and Hartwick. Hartwick is at 7 just behind Millsaps on my list with a 53.5 OWP versus 54.1 for Millsaps.

Thanks,

Carl

PS - Ralph --- a heads up that something must be wrong with the site --- I just noticed that my Karma is up to zero? FYI.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 08, 2007, 02:50:21 PM
Carl, with respect to SOS, I see these problems in D3 Football.

1)  Few to no inter-region games like D-1 to give common opponents (by definition).
2)  Too few non-conference opponents to impact the conference's SOS in the 9-team and 10-team conferences.
3)  Deliberate avoidance of any contribution that non-D3 opponents might make to the calculation. (By definition.)
4)  A really small "n" compared to D-1 Football and even D-3 Hoops and Baseball.
5)  I have not even seen the confidence intervals that would accompany the calculations of the index.
Title: Re: Pool C slots 8 through 19
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 08, 2007, 02:53:41 PM
Quote from: Carl Menist on November 08, 2007, 01:41:29 PM
Pat / Wes / Ralph et al ---

Just left the following post at the projected brackets. Would be interested, as i think others with teams including in the rankings with the following copied from that post -

Pat - Thanks for your follow-up.

If you have time and this is a fair question - How do the 12 teams including in the rankings this week stack up? In other words, in yur view, who is #8 through #19 on the Pool C pecking order at this point?

Also, is the most significant secondary factor to OWP geography in most cases? Just trying to understand.

Thanks.


I saw your question on the blog but I don't go anywhere near that deep in my Pool C rankings.

Geography is not at all a factor for playoff selection.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 08, 2007, 03:46:28 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 08, 2007, 12:01:49 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 07, 2007, 09:19:53 PM
Ralph, I would agree with the notion that you could use the secondary criteria when comparing Salisbury and Waynesburg.  And only then if you found most other things to be relatively equal, which their in-region record will not be.

Waynesburg 7-1
Salisbury 5-1

They tend to treat these two numbers as equal, actually. Remember this is not a math problem.

Quote from: Pat Colemanfrom the blog...
... regional winning percentage (really, in-region losses)...

Where in the criteria does the committee straight-up exchange "regional winning percentage" for "in-region losses"?  Or is that one of those things they do but don't write?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 08, 2007, 03:52:31 PM
I'm judging by having watched the results in action. Haven't seen 6-1 or 7-1 treated differently from 8-1 and 9-1 in the past.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 08, 2007, 03:54:35 PM
Here's a good visual example from earlier this season:

West Region
No. Name In-Region Overall
1. UW-Whitewater 6-0 6-1
2. St. John's 7-0 8-0
3. Central 7-0 8-0
4. Occidental 6-0 6-0
5. St. Norbert 7-0 8-0
6. Redlands 4-1 5-1
7. Bethel 6-1 6-1
8. Wartburg 7-1 7-1
9. Linfield 3-1 4-2
10. UW-Stevens Point 3-1 6-1
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 08, 2007, 03:56:00 PM
An in-season Regional Rankings is one thing.

The Selection Sunday rankings are an entirely different matter...

Witness the protests that have taken place that the National Committee doesn't release the final regional rankings.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 08, 2007, 04:00:14 PM
Straight up, yes or no question:

Are you saying that the NATIONAL committee will look at the following as being identical records:

5-1 in region
7-1 in region

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 08, 2007, 04:06:15 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 08, 2007, 04:00:14 PM
Straight up, yes or no question:

Are you saying that the NATIONAL committee will look at the following as being identical records:

5-1 in region
7-1 in region

Yes, that is my observation. That's all I can tell you, since I have never been a
member of the national committee.

Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 08, 2007, 03:52:31 PM
I'm judging by having watched the results in action. Haven't seen 6-1 or 7-1 treated differently from 8-1 and 9-1 in the past.

Quote from: Pat Colemanfrom the blog...
... regional winning percentage (really, in-region losses)...
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 08, 2007, 04:07:00 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 08, 2007, 03:56:00 PM
The Selection Sunday rankings are an entirely different matter...

Why is this the case? Do the criteria change on Selection Sunday that we're not aware of?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 08, 2007, 04:18:25 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 08, 2007, 04:07:00 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 08, 2007, 03:56:00 PM
The Selection Sunday rankings are an entirely different matter...

Why is this the case? Do the criteria change on Selection Sunday that we're not aware of?

I didn't say the criteria changed on Selection Sunday.  I'm saying that the criteria is based on a complete body of work on Selection Sunday.  That's a completely different picture on which the evaluation is made.

Apparently, we're going to disagree.  So be it.

I know this:  If you and I are competing for one last spot in the tournament, I'd rather be 7-1 instead of 5-1 with comparable OWP & OOWP...
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 08, 2007, 04:24:12 PM
That's nice and all, but what makes you more comfortable isn't really what's going to get you in the tournament. :)

And I guess I don't see what hair you're splitting between the complete body of work through 10 weeks and the complete body of work through 11 weeks. The same evaluation is made as if the season were over every time they make the evaluation.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 10, 2007, 09:40:49 AM
I've put all the conference races, key games, head-to-head tiebreakers, AQ berths, Pool B & C eligibles all in one place:

http://www.wjpa.com/All-in-One-Races.htm

Hope someone else finds this useful today...
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 10, 2007, 10:30:14 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 10, 2007, 09:40:49 AM
I've put all the conference races, key games, head-to-head tiebreakers, AQ berths, Pool B & C eligibles all in one place:

http://www.wjpa.com/All-in-One-Races.htm

Hope someone else finds this useful today...
+1, Thanks!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Carl Menist on November 10, 2007, 10:48:02 AM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 10, 2007, 09:40:49 AM
I've put all the conference races, key games, head-to-head tiebreakers, AQ berths, Pool B & C eligibles all in one place:

http://www.wjpa.com/All-in-One-Races.htm

Hope someone else finds this useful today...

Thanks Bob. Nice Job.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 10, 2007, 10:49:13 AM
Carl,

After twice screwing up Millsaps this week, it's the least I could do...
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 10, 2007, 12:22:13 PM
Agreed, very nicely done, Bob.  +1

You are going to keep this updated as the day progresses??   ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: cgmatch on November 10, 2007, 06:02:30 PM
With the win today improving Mississippi College's record to 8-2.  What are the chances that they make the playoffs? 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 10, 2007, 06:08:21 PM
Quote from: cgmatch on November 10, 2007, 06:02:30 PM
With the win today improving Mississippi College's record to 8-2.  What are the chances that they make the playoffs? 
At this minute, I count 5 teams that have 1 in-region loss and going for Pool C bids.

I count 14 teams around the country that have 2 losses in-region and seem to be vying for the remaining 2 Pool C bids

If Miss College had beaten HSU, then they would have a Pool C bid.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: cgmatch on November 10, 2007, 06:12:37 PM
Thanks Ralph.


Good luck Cru bring back a title to the ASC!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 10, 2007, 07:59:01 PM
All-in-One-Races is updated.

I've put all the conference races, key games, head-to-head tiebreakers, AQ berths, Pool B & C eligibles all in one place:

http://www.wjpa.com/All-in-One-Races.htm

Hope someone else finds this useful today...
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Just_that_kid on November 10, 2007, 10:21:06 PM
Anyone notice the Millsaps scores lately? an asterisk loss and a miracle play.. 5 points from being 10-0? There's got to be a chance. This is one of the teams from the south that can make some real noise.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 10, 2007, 10:25:16 PM
The outcome of the last game in the SCIAC could have a huge impact on the evaluation of the last couple Pool C bids...

Here's what I've got in C so far...

Whitworth
St. John Fisher
St. John's
Mt. St. Joseph
Hobart

The SCIAC "Rose Bowl Rule" could throw two teams (Occidental & Redlands) into the "C" discussion, though strength of schedule may hold one or both out.  Redlands is #62 on the charts (.540 & .475). Occidental is #210 (ouch) (.395 & .507).

Right now, my last two C's are Wheaton & Wartburg, with Capital & Millsaps right there in the mix as well.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 10, 2007, 10:26:07 PM
Quote from: Just_that_kid on November 10, 2007, 10:21:06 PM
Anyone notice the Millsaps scores lately? an asterisk loss and a miracle play.. 5 points from being 10-0? There's got to be a chance.

That doesn't overly matter. Throwing away the opener is going to come back to haunt them.
Title: Just make a call on Millsaps and save the commentary on skeletons in the closet
Post by: Carl Menist on November 10, 2007, 11:20:18 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 10, 2007, 10:26:07 PM
Quote from: Just_that_kid on November 10, 2007, 10:21:06 PM
Anyone notice the Millsaps scores lately? an asterisk loss and a miracle play.. 5 points from being 10-0? There's got to be a chance.

That doesn't overly matter. Throwing away the opener is going to come back to haunt them.

Pat ---

I really appreciate all you and the D-3 staff do  and the wonderful website. It is after 11 EST on Saturday night.

There are lots of great teams close or real close to making the playoffs. Lots close or real close to staying home.

Just a humble request, if you don't want to put Millsaps in your final bracket, don't do it, but please refrain from the yeah but, shouldn't have stuff. Either the team is going to make it or not and it is ultimately not your call, you report on it.

Personally, I would like to see it come down to the objective numbers for Millsaps and the official results, no astericks.

Many of the other teams that are on the short list have comparable records, but some have very close wins to 500 teams at the end of the season or even one or two losses in a row. This can not be to their advantage.

It is interesting that when it is covenient to respond to questions about in or out projections / thinking for a particular team and the SOS or OWP is high or good for the team in question, that it is emphasized and pointed out as being the basis for the placement and when it is not convenient, the subjective flexibility of the decision process is suggested.

Put em in or put em out, but hold off on the what I see as a bit of a passive aggressive back handed slap at Millsaps.

I know I am tired and apologize if I offended you. Just make your decision tonight and wait for the announcement tomorrow. Cut them some slack in or out.

Thanks --- and thanks for an overall great year on the D-3 football site.

PS - Millsaps didn't play top 10 teams the last two weeks but weren't playing with children. bounced back pretty nicely froma tough tough loss and probably could have scored 100 in each of the last two games. --- It was 52-0 at halftime today. I don't think Millsaps  will embarass the  South if they are playing next week. Infact, may be a bad dream / night mare for a top seeded team to have to play in the first round?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 11, 2007, 12:29:16 AM
If Millsaps fans don't ask for asterisks for their losses then I doubt anyone would say anything about the circumstances of the losses, Carl.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Carl Menist on November 11, 2007, 12:50:08 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 11, 2007, 12:29:16 AM
If Millsaps fans don't ask for asterisks for their losses then I doubt anyone would say anything about the circumstances of the losses, Carl.

This one isn't and neither is the team!

On a different note --

Last year we got in with the big win over Trinity one the last game --- no news to you Pat. Becuase of the circunstances last year and my lack of familiarity with the process and sources for information, I didn't follow all the activity of teh last three or four weeks as the season wound down and pointed to the playoffs.

This year, it has really been an overall enlightening and impressive experience to watch activity around the nation and begin to more fullyappreciate the breath, depth and many quality teams and schools across the country involved in Division III football. There are allot of great teams.

The overall experience at Millsaps is awesome and I am sure an experience that is replicated all around the country.

Good stuff.

May not be a good participant in all this because I get frustrated with what I feel to be negative comments pointed towards the kids and the coaches doing a good work. I know I respond adversarily at times, but it really bugs me. I try to never demean or put down other teams and thier efforts. It is the people (posters) making poorly thought out and less than constructive comments that I lose my tolerance with.


Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 11, 2007, 01:39:24 AM
Carl, the Millsaps-Miss College game spurred more postings on a relative basis (number of posts, number of "new post responses", sustained posting on a board previously "dormant", number of new posters who joined the conversation, degree of sustained quality posting, shift in dominance of the board from one school to another, etc.) than I can remember in the last 7 years.

The tumbleweeds would blow down the main street of the SCAC Message Board between non-Trinity posts, until that game.  That game also encapsuled the slim margin that is the difference between an at-large bid and sitting home in D3.  Most D-3 fans do not comprehend how truly finite 7 at-large bids for a field of 200+ schools is.  The early posts on the SCAC board by experienced posters recognized that fact and called so quickly and so accurately, that it affected the entire D3 season.

The Oxy loss at Whittier is making the Pool C bid more interesting, and brings Millsaps that much closer to edge of getting a bid.  Off-season reflection in the weight room in Jackson will dwell on that game.

There is no doubt about it!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Carl Menist on November 11, 2007, 03:14:16 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 11, 2007, 01:39:24 AM
Carl, the Millsaps-Miss College game spurred more postings on a relative basis (number of posts, number of "new post responses", sustained posting on a board previously "dormant", number of new posters who joined the conversation, degree of sustained quality posting, shift in dominance of the board from one school to another, etc.) than I can remember in the last 7 years.

The tumbleweeds would blow down the main street of the SCAC Message Board between non-Trinity posts, until that game.  That game also encapsuled the slim margin that is the difference between an at-large bid and sitting home in D3.  Most D-3 fans do not comprehend how truly finite 7 at-large bids for a field of 200+ schools is.  The early posts on the SCAC board by experienced posters recognized that fact and called so quickly and so accurately, that it affected the entire D3 season.

The Oxy loss at Whittier is making the Pool C bid more interesting, and brings Millsaps that much closer to edge of getting a bid.  Off-season reflection in the weight room in Jackson will dwell on that game.

There is no doubt about it!

Don't know what more could be done in the weight room and how the guys there can kick themselves with regard to what you are referring to. Bid or no bid, I think if there has been any reflection it has been a little further upstairs and appropriate decisions will be made on a go forward basis to minimize the chance of it happening again if fortunate enough to be in  the same position in the future.

Pat obviously has a basis for his final projections and he is probably on point.

I cetainly understand the priniciple of winning every game you can, but I would think a committee comparing 10 or 12 good teams for 7 spots would closely review and put weight on actual schedule details when camparing i and 2 loss teams and look less favorably on teams with records that  include losses to teams well below 500 and very close games to 500 and below teams --- examples follow ----

Hartwick  - 8-2 record

9/1/07 Loss to (3-7) Western New England
11/3/07 Close win to (4-6) Springfield
11/10/07 Quadruple OT win over (3-7) Utica

Capital - 8-2 record

10/20/07 Loss to (5-5) Otterbein
11/3/07 Tight win over (0-10) Muskingum
11/10/07 Tight win over (6-4) Baldwin Wallace

Whitworth - 8-2 record

9/22/07  Close win over (4-6) UW Stout
10/27/07 Close win over (4-6) Williamette

It seems that close losses  to 9-1 or 8-2 teams would be perceived more positively than losses to sub 500 teams. Same goes with close wins. Better to have your close wins to other teams wih strong record versus sub 500 and no win teams.

If that is considered, the teams above included in Pat's final projection could have some exposure?


Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 11, 2007, 08:17:20 AM
Please remember that losses (and all games , for that matter) to teams below .500 are reflected in the OWP and the OOWP.

A win is a win.  No margin of victory is considered.  From reviewing the criteria in multiple D3 sports, the Championship Committee doesn't want to go there, which means, running up the score doesn't help with the Selection Committee.

Following Coach DuBose's system, the system is that any Millsaps Major had better be ready to play whenever he steps on the field.  The "short term" setback was that the "third stringers" who "lost it" back in the Aug 2007 know that they had better be prepared in November 2008.  The "long term" benefit is the work ethic that his system puts into the culture of the DuBose's Majors' teams and how hard the 70th and the 80th player on the roster will work in the off-season.   The peer pressure by the half dozen friends of the star player on the star is that the star player has to work harder so as not to incur the wrath of his half-dozen friends who aren't as talented as he.

I saw this phenomenon work at Lake Highlands HS in their decade of the 1990's. :)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 11, 2007, 08:22:20 AM
Concerning your examples...

Capital vs. Otterbein -- Cross-town rivals in Columbus OH in the OAC.

Hartwick -- Ugly loss to WNE almost knocks them out of the playoffs.

Whitworth -- Close win over UW-Stout is a great win.  Any win over the WIAC is viewed as a great win.  The WIAC is probably #1, the OAC is #2 in the nation as a conference.

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: frank_ezelle on November 11, 2007, 09:39:00 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 11, 2007, 08:17:20 AM

Following Coach DuBose's system, the system is that any Millsaps Major had better be ready to play whenever he steps on the field.  The "short term" setback was that the "third stringers" who "lost it" back in the Aug 2007 know that they had better be prepared in November 2008.  The "long term" benefit is the work ethic that his system puts into the culture of the DuBose's Majors' teams and how hard the 70th and the 80th player on the roster will work in the off-season.   The peer pressure by the half dozen friends of the star player on the star is that the star player has to work harder so as not to incur the wrath of his half-dozen friend who aren't as talented as he.


Ralph, I wish I could have summed up my comments that well back in early September.  Coach DuBose has clearly stated that he wants to build a program at Millsaps and I think he takes a long term approach in some of his decisions.  He said at last year's banquet for the Millsaps senior athletes that he would like to have at least 20-25 seniors leaving the program each year instead of the 6 he had in 2006.  The 2007 team has 12 seniors and with 22 juniors on the roster this season, there should be even more seniors on the 2008 team. 

The success at Millsaps over the last two seasons, 12-1 in the SCAC with an outright championship and a co-championship, makes people forget that these have been rebuilding years at Millsaps.  The 2005 team was 2-7 and those two wins were both 1-point victories.  It's reasonable to think that these two seasons have just been the groundwork for bigger and better things.

Frank.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 11, 2007, 12:23:20 PM
Regarding the mention of Hartwick and Capital above...

Hartwick has an automatic as champion of the Empire 8, so they are obviously in anyway.  You mention their close calls against teams with poor records - OK (admittedly, their opening loss to Western New England is probably the most puzzling result of the entire D-3 season).  But don't forget that they have defeated last year's national semifinalist and current top 10 team St. John Fisher.  They deserve their spot.

Capital deserves to go as well.  In the past decade, the OAC runner-up has always performed very well in the playoffs - almost always winning until they run into their own Mount Union, who everyone has trouble beating.  I would be very surprised if the OAC runner-up is ever left out of the playoffs given their track record of tremendous playoff success.

Millsaps, despite having a terrific season, quite simply does not deserve to go to the playoffs; they failed to win their automatic and their conference is not strong enough to merit a second bid.  The SCAC has not had any recent playoff success.  I don't think an SCAC team has won a playoff game since 2002 Trinity.  They shouldn't be a two-bid league until they prove they have two teams that are capable of competing on the national scale.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 11, 2007, 01:22:26 PM
#1 Washington & Jefferson (10-0) vs. #8 North Carolina Wesleyan (8-2)
Drop-back quarterback (#1 efficiency rating) vs. running quarterback.
Perennial participant (116 years of football) vs. newcomer (4th season)
Bishops suffered losses to Wesley (34-31) and Widener (27-17), then won eight straight.


#4 Mary Hardin-Baylor (9-1) vs. #6 Trinity (9-1)
UMHB got whacked at UWW, then dropped to 4th in own region.
Tigers only loss to Rhodes in mid-season, and miracle win keeping Millsaps out.


#3 Muhlenberg (10-0) vs. #5 Salisbury (9-1)
Mules have allowed an average of 7.5 points a game, seven games of one score or less.
Seagulls only loss to Wesley, but have only played one other team (Albright) that was even within a local call of a playoff race.

#2 Wesley (9-1) vs. #7 Hampden-Sydney (8-2)
Wesley lost to Montclair State in mid-September, but owns wins over N.C. Wesleyan, Widener and Salisbury, all in the dance.
Hampden-Sydney lost the opener to Johns Hopkins, then won multiple shootouts since then.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Carl Menist on November 11, 2007, 02:04:07 PM
Quote from: frank_ezelle on November 11, 2007, 09:39:00 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 11, 2007, 08:17:20 AM

Following Coach DuBose's system, the system is that any Millsaps Major had better be ready to play whenever he steps on the field.  The "short term" setback was that the "third stringers" who "lost it" back in the Aug 2007 know that they had better be prepared in November 2008.  The "long term" benefit is the work ethic that his system puts into the culture of the DuBose's Majors' teams and how hard the 70th and the 80th player on the roster will work in the off-season.   The peer pressure by the half dozen friends of the star player on the star is that the star player has to work harder so as not to incur the wrath of his half-dozen friend who aren't as talented as he.


Ralph, I wish I could have summed up my comments that well back in early September.  Coach DuBose has clearly stated that he wants to build a program at Millsaps and I think he takes a long term approach in some of his decisions.  He said at last year's banquet for the Millsaps senior athletes that he would like to have at least 20-25 seniors leaving the program each year instead of the 6 he had in 2006.  The 2007 team has 12 seniors and with 22 juniors on the roster this season, there should be even more seniors on the 2008 team. 

The success at Millsaps over the last two seasons, 12-1 in the SCAC with an outright championship and a co-championship, makes people forget that these have been rebuilding years at Millsaps.  The 2005 team was 2-7 and those two wins were both 1-point victories.  It's reasonable to think that these two seasons have just been the groundwork for bigger and better things.

Frank.

Ralph ---

I agree with Frank's post and do thank you for your insight and willingness to share your time and knowledge as to the intricacies of football in Division III.

I hope that your insight into Coach Dubose system is on point and that the fruits of that system is the development of great teams in the future but more importantly, the continued development of fine young men who play for him.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: old ends on November 11, 2007, 07:29:32 PM
Even thought Muhlenberg did not get to go East,, It will be interesting to see how far they get. Personnaly with their stats they have a good chance of getting a lot futher than most people think.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: OLine Coach on November 12, 2007, 02:15:31 PM
Can one of the gurus tell me why Waynesburg got left out of pool C? 

They lost to W&J by 1 point.
They lost to Geneva in OT - a team with scholarship athletes - and a game that even if they had won would still give them a 7-1 regional record and would not have helped them.

Are they getting screwed by the selection committee or are they getting screwed because teams like geneva are on their probation period?

I may be wrong but wasn't there a team in there with a 2 loss in region record?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 12, 2007, 02:52:23 PM
OLine coach,

Waynesburg got left out of Pool C because:

They lost to W&J, period.
They lost to Geneva, period.

Waynesburg's losses were magnified by the fact that the Yellow Jackets OWP was ranked 186  !!!

And, yes, Eau Claire had two regional losses, as did Ithaca.

Waynesburg was bubble at best after losing to W&J.  Losing to Geneva, while not a primary criteria game, was a loss, and that meant it wasn't a WIN against a primary criteria opponent.

They say misery loves company:  Imagine being Whitworth...NWC conference champion (unbeaten in doing so), one in-region loss and that in week 1 to a team IN the tournament. And the Pirates OWP was 122!

Waynesburg doesn't have the credentials to make THIS field.  But, in my opinion, Ithaca and Eau Claire don't either.

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: muledaddy on November 12, 2007, 06:07:24 PM
 Old Ends,

There may be more than a grain of truth in those stats for the Mules.their out of
conference victories over  TCNJ (15-0 in game 1) and Union (34-0 in game 2)
begin to tell the tale..this mule can kick....defense is sharp...6 all conference
1st team defenders on board...a highly motivated, smart group, with a qb who finds a way to win (come from behind victories in 2 games, one making up a 17 pt deficit).
!st team all conference 1000 yd +running back,good pass receivers, all make for a very interesting Saturday...it can't come soon enough........GO MULES !!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 12, 2007, 06:43:34 PM
Yes. Beating Union (5-4) puts Muhlenberg in elite company.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: muledaddy on November 12, 2007, 07:02:24 PM
Thanks Pat,

Humility is best served fresh.


Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: old ends on November 12, 2007, 09:00:48 PM
Muldaddy..

Trust me, one of the first things I do is pull the stats.. Look at my Centennial Post and you will see that I even post them for other to read.

Not only is DeLuca over a 1M yds, in the conference, he also lead the conference in scoring. Santagato passed for almost 193.2 yds/game and he leads in passing efficiency at 162.6.

Plus the field is something Salisbury , I do not think, has seen the likes of before.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: muledaddy on November 13, 2007, 08:27:03 PM
 Old Ends and Pat d(the Guru),

Our field is lovely, but different.We are scheduled to replace the surface as soon as this season is over, hopefullly not quite yet. Its harder than the average
schoolyard.

The significance of the opening 2 non conference games was that they both were shut outs, hinting at the defense being pretty good. The rest of the regular
season proved how good the defense was....holding some good  high yardage
teams, with good running attacks, to less than expected by all.

Can a Guru have Karma....will Gulls fly away over the sunset.....and how hard can a MULE KICK...these are the questions that  soon will be answered......
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Smith Reed on November 16, 2007, 07:58:50 PM
Look for the NCW defense to be the cornerstone of anything generated
by the Bishops against W&J . The offense relies on adept play calling and
execution with wise decision making by their QB. If this is not there then the
Bishops are in for a long day. NCW has not faced an offense like W&J since
early in the season. They will be fully tested tomorrow. The Bishop defense is a
corp of proud young men and should be prepared for the challenge.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: muledaddy on November 16, 2007, 09:11:55 PM
It's MULETIME.....sit back, relax, and let's if a bird that runs can outplay a mule that kicks,,,,,defense....

poise....defense....poise...bird turnovers(3 )...and lots of prayers get the MULES over Gulls.......the
good thing about a Mule is the bad thing about a mule....its a very stubborn animal...it will not be denied..
meanwhile...gulls are good for something......oh, yeah...they are annoying to beachfolk, helpful to fishermen, and are considered as pesky flying rats by most....GO MULES..........
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 16, 2007, 09:15:30 PM
Ballgame on the air tomorrow about 11:45 a.m. ET:
http://www.d3football.com/audio/
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: yessir on November 17, 2007, 03:03:14 AM
Good luck to NC Wesleyan. Beat W&J so I don't have to use my free plane tickets so soon.......GO CRU!!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 17, 2007, 09:35:15 AM
Broadcast link for North Carolina Wesleyan at Washington & Jefferson:

http://www.wjpa.com/sports.htm

This is the W&J broadcast
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: @d3jason on November 17, 2007, 11:46:44 AM
Broadcast link to Wesley/Hampden-Sydney at

wdel.com
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: umhbalum on November 17, 2007, 12:40:30 PM
Live feed for the UMHB/Trinity game

http://secure.stretchinternet.com/demo/games.php?user=trinity&o=cal_stamp
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: umhbalum on November 17, 2007, 01:41:29 PM
Let's go CRU! Any news on Oliver yet? I heard he just went down a few minutes ago....
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: umhbalum on November 17, 2007, 01:44:41 PM
Just heard that Oliver was carted off the field.  :o
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: umhbalum on November 17, 2007, 02:05:13 PM
CRU scores again.

CRU 21 - Trinity 10

5 minutes left in the half
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: muledaddy on November 17, 2007, 06:48:14 PM
Muleworld,

Gulls don't fly...they ride the bus home...til next season..As predicted, mule defense
rose to the occasion, cutting gull rushing game in half.Turnovers (3 key ones)
also were predicted to figure in the outcome, and they did.

Just for fun, Muledaddy's picks in the south, at the beginning of last week, included the no8 NCW upset over no 1 seed W and SJ.

This message board stuff is getting to be a really interesting new pastime.

Let's see, Mules go to Dover, Del (home of the Monster Mile) for next week's
contest....isn't Wesleyan from the same conference as the now departed Gulls?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on November 17, 2007, 07:27:12 PM
Quote from: muledaddy on November 17, 2007, 06:48:14 PM
Muleworld,

Gulls don't fly...they ride the bus home...til next season..As predicted, mule defense
rose to the occasion, cutting gull rushing game in half.Turnovers (3 key ones)
also were predicted to figure in the outcome, and they did.

Just for fun, Muledaddy's picks in the south, at the beginning of last week, included the no8 NCW upset over no 1 seed W and SJ.

This message board stuff is getting to be a really interesting new pastime.

Let's see, Mules go to Dover, Del (home of the Monster Mile) for next week's
contest....isn't Wesleyan from the same conference as the now departed Gulls?

Are you going to be there?

-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 17, 2007, 09:40:53 PM
Quote from: muledaddy on November 17, 2007, 06:48:14 PM
Muleworld,

Gulls don't fly...they ride the bus home...til next season..As predicted, mule defense
rose to the occasion, cutting gull rushing game in half.Turnovers (3 key ones)
also were predicted to figure in the outcome, and they did.

Just for fun, Muledaddy's picks in the south, at the beginning of last week, included the no8 NCW upset over no 1 seed W and SJ.

This message board stuff is getting to be a really interesting new pastime.


Wesleyan is in the USA south. WESLEY is in the ACFC. And the Monster mile isn't the only big thing in Dover. And the Wolverines play some mean D too..

Let's see, Mules go to Dover, Del (home of the Monster Mile) for next week's
contest....isn't Wesleyan from the same conference as the now departed Gulls?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Smith Reed on November 17, 2007, 10:00:31 PM
Bob Greg, you called a good game today. To your credit, you knew both
teams and the color commentary was on point. NCW' s defense rose to
the occaision. Let's hope they can keep it up. Thanks Again.
GO BISHOPS!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 18, 2007, 12:50:17 AM
Quote from: Smith Reed on November 17, 2007, 10:00:31 PM
Bob Greg, you called a good game today. To your credit, you knew both
teams and the color commentary was on point. NCW' s defense rose to
the occaision. Let's hope they can keep it up. Thanks Again.
GO BISHOPS!!!!!!!!!
IMHO, Bob Gregg is in the D3 Top 10 of football announcers!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: muledaddy on November 18, 2007, 02:59:26 PM
Weleyfolk,


See ACFC board today for the first official Muledaddy posting on the subject of the big game at Dover on 11/24....more exciting than Jimmie Johnson winning the
Nextel Cup.......better than  the Monster Mile...its MULETIME.....
GO MULES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: njlincolnlion on November 19, 2007, 08:13:31 AM
Congratulations to Muhlenburg in your win over Salisbury.  Get ready for ACFC round 2.

GO WOLVERINES, Keep "chopping" and win some games for the ACFC!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 19, 2007, 09:17:21 AM
Quote from: Smith Reed on November 17, 2007, 10:00:31 PM
Bob Greg, you called a good game today. To your credit, you knew both
teams and the color commentary was on point. NCW' s defense rose to
the occaision. Let's hope they can keep it up. Thanks Again.
GO BISHOPS!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 18, 2007, 12:50:17 AM
IMHO, Bob Gregg is in the D3 Top 10 of football announcers!

Thanks, guys.

Even IF I have W&J glasses, I try to give the fair shake...
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: roocru on November 20, 2007, 06:02:30 PM
Just thought I would throw this out there for everybody to look at. :)  This is the team stats and order for all South Region teams left in the playoffs.  Nothing special intended.  Use it for your own enjoyment and arguments. ;)

NCAA Football               
Division III  Total Offense               
Through Games 11/17/2007               


Rank   Name   G   Plays   YDS   YPG
2   Mary Hardin-Baylor   11   774   5798   527.1
9   Wesley   11   847   5344   485.8
15   N.C. Wesleyan   11   825   5004   454.9
45   Case Reserve   11   833   4479   407.2
56   Wabash   11   N/A   N/A   396.7
63   North Central (Ill.)   11   N/A   N/A   392.2
73   Wis.-Whitewater   11   N/A   N/A   382.9
75   Muhlenberg   11   N/A   N/A   382.6

NCAA Football               
Division III  Total Defense               
Through Games 11/17/2007               


Rank   Name   G   Plays   YDS   YPG
2   Muhlenberg   11   616   2051   186.5
14   Wesley   11   731   2782   252.9
21   Wis.-Whitewater   11   730   2910   264.5
38   Case Reserve   11   745   3134   284.9
39   Mary Hardin-Baylor   11   783   3139   285.4
41   North Central (Ill.)   11   726   3145   285.9
64   N.C. Wesleyan   11   N/A   N/A   305.0
92   Wabash   11   N/A   N/A   325.5

NCAA Football               
Division III  Rushing Offense               
Through Games 11/17/2007               


Rank   Name   G   Rush   Rush Yds   YPG
1   Mary Hardin-Baylor   11   596   4131   375.5
15   Wesley   11   537   2846   258.7
26   N.C. Wesleyan   11   496   25.21   229.2
36   Wis.-Whitewater   11   532   2300   209.1
44   North Central (Ill.)   11   516   2203   200.3
60   Muhlenberg   11   N/A   N/A   183.9
66   Case Reserve   11   N/A   N/A   179.4
184   Wabash   11   N/A   N/A   104.6

NCAA Football               
Division III  Rushing Defense               
Through Games 11/17/2007               


Rank   Name   G   Opp Rush   Opp Rush Yds   YPG
2   Mary Hardin-Baylor   11   356   399   36.3
7   North Central (Ill.)   11   371   746   67.8
11   Muhlenberg   11   345   783   71.2
16   Wis.-Whitewater   11   357   907   82.5
22   Wesley   11   381   1001   91.0
41   Case Reserve   11   405   1181   107.4
64   Wabash   11   N/A   N/A   117.1
97   N.C. Wesleyan   11   N/A   N/A   138.3      

NCAA Football                     
Division III  Passing Offense                     
Through Games 11/17/2007                     


Rank   Name   G   Pass Att   Pass Com   Int   Pass Yds   YPG
19   Wabash   11   362   244   12   3213   292.1
66   Case Reserve   11   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   227.8
67   Wesley   11   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   227.1
69   N.C. Wesleyan   11   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   225.7
104   Muhlenberg   11   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   198.7
114   North Central (Ill.)   11   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   191.9
142   Wis.-Whitewater   11   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   173.8
184   Mary Hardin-Baylor   11   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   151.5

NCAA Football                        
Division III  Pass Efficiency Defense                        
Through Games 11/17/2007                        


Rank   Name   G   Opp Pass   Opp Pass Cpl   Opp Int   Opp Pass Yds   Opp Pass TDs   Pass Eff
2   Muhlenberg   11   271   124   12   1268   3   79.9
11   Wesley   11   350   166   17   1781   9   88.9
14   Wis.-Whitewater   11   373   182   25   2003   11   90.2
32   Case Reserve   11   340   178   18   1953   8   97.8
48   N.C. Wesleyan   11   311   159   22   1834   14   101.4
64   Mary Hardin-Baylor   11   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   104.0
116   North Central (Ill.)   11   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   117.2
118   Wabash   11   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   117.5

NCAA Football                              
Division III  Scoring Offense                              
Through Games 11/17/2007                              


Rank   Name   G   TDs   PAT   2PT   Def Pts   FG   Saf   Pts   PPG
1   Mary Hardin-Baylor   11   83   79   0   0   10   1   609   55.4
14   Wesley   11   56   50   1   0   9   2   419   38.1
15   N.C. Wesleyan   11   56   53   0   0   8   1   415   37.7
16   North Central (Ill.)   11   53   50   0   1   14   1   414   37.6
28   Case Reserve   11   51   47   0   0   11   0   386   35.1
46   Wabash   11   49   42   0   0   2   1   344   31.3
54   Wis.-Whitewater   11   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   30.5
56   Muhlenberg   11   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   30.5

NCAA Football                              
Division III  Scoring Defense                              
Through Games 11/17/2007                              


Rank   Name   G   TDs   Opp XP   2PT   Opp DXP   Opp FGM   Opp Saf   Pts   Avg
3   Muhlenberg   11   12   10   1   0   4   0   96   8.7
9   Wis.-Whitewater   11   20   17   0   0   3   0   146   13.3
17   Case Reserve   11   22   9   3   0   4   1   161   14.6
20   Wabash   11   22   16   1   0   5   0   165   15.0
31   Wesley   11   23   18   2   0   7   0   181   16.5
52   Mary Hardin-Baylor   11   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   18.3
53   North Central (Ill.)   11   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   18.5
78   N.C. Wesleyan   11   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   20.0

NCAA Football                              
Division III  Turnover Margin                              
Through Games 11/17/2007                              


Rank   Name   G   Opp Fum   Opp Int   Turn Gain   Fum Lost   Int   Turn Lost   Margin   Avg
2   Mary Hardin-Baylor   11   18   26   44   14   8   22   22   2.0
9   Wis.-Whitewater   11   14   25   39   12   9   21   18   1.6
11   Muhlenberg   11   14   12   26   5   4   9   17   1.5
21   Case Reserve   11   14   18   32   11   6   17   15   1.4
32   N.C. Wesleyan   11   17   22   39   13   15   28   11   1.0
36   North Central (Ill.)   11   10   20   30   10   10   20   10   0.9
116   Wesley   11   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   0.0
121   Wabash   11   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   -0.1

NCAA Football                              
Division III  Team Kickoff Returns                              
Through Games 11/17/2007                              


Rank   Name   KO Ret   KO Ret Yds   Kick Ret TDs   Avg
4   Wesley   40   1012   4   25.30
13   North Central (Ill.)   38   854   0   22.47
31   Wabash   32   675   0   21.09
70   Case Reserve   N/A   N/A   N/A   19.79
110   Muhlenberg   N/A   N/A   N/A   18.92
113   N.C. Wesleyan   N/A   N/A   N/A   18.89
199   Mary Hardin-Baylor   N/A   N/A   N/A   16.92
200   Wis.-Whitewater   N/A   N/A   N/A   16.90

NCAA Football               
Division III  Team Punt Returns               
Through Games 11/17/2007               


Rank   Name   Punt Ret   Punt Ret Yds   Punt Ret TDs   Avg
12   Wesley   32   434   1   13.56
19   North Central (Ill.)   39   501   1   12.85
27   N.C. Wesleyan   19   231   0   12.16
35   Mary Hardin-Baylor   46   528   1   11.48
44   Wabash   27   298   1   11.04
140   Wis.-Whitewater   N/A   N/A   N/A   7.64
148   Muhlenberg   N/A   N/A   N/A   7.45
160   Case Reserve   N/A   N/A   N/A   6.93

NCAA Football               
Division III  Team Tackles for Loss               
Through Games 11/17/2007               


Rank   Name   G   STFL   ATFL   Tackle Yds   TTFL   TFLPG
1   Mary Hardin-Baylor   11   85   80   557   125   11.4
10   Wabash   11   89   38   451   108   9.8
19   Wesley   11   67   68   432   101   9.2
33   N.C. Wesleyan   11   65   54   340   92   8.4
42   North Central (Ill.)   11   68   42   347   89   8.1
52   Muhlenberg   11   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   7.8
107   Wis.-Whitewater   11   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   6.6
116   Case Reserve   11   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   6.5

NCAA Football                     
Division III  Team Pass Sacks                     
Through Games 11/17/2007                     


Rank   Name   G   Sacks   Sack Yds   Avg      
5   Mary Hardin-Baylor   11   45   329   4.09         
6   Muhlenberg   11   43   248   3.91         
6   Wabash   11   43   284   3.91         
10   Wis.-Whitewater   11   40   230   3.64         
14   North Central (Ill.)   11   38   210   3.45         
72   Wesley   11   N/A   N/A   2.45         
79   Case Reserve   11   N/A   N/A   2.36         
91   N.C. Wesleyan   11   N/A   N/A   2.27         

NCAA Football                        
Division III  Team Passing Efficiency                        
Through Games 11/17/2007                        


Rank   Name   G   Pass Att   Pass Com   Int   Pass Yds   Pass TD   Pass Eff
9   Wabash   11   362   244   12   3213   27   159.94
10   Mary Hardin-Baylor   11   178   94   8   1667   20   159.57
15   Muhlenberg   11   253   164   4   2186   15   153.80
36   Case Reserve   11   336   202   6   2506   22   140.80
39   Wesley   11   310   167   9   2498   22   139.17
52   North Central (Ill.)   11   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   134.59
68   N.C. Wesleyan   11   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   129.75
76   Wis.-Whitewater   11   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   125.68

NCAA Football                        
Division III  Pass Sacks Allowed                        
Through Games 11/17/2007                        


Rank   Name   G   Opp Sacks   Opp Sack Yds   Avg         
3   Mary Hardin-Baylor   11   8   46   0.73         
14   Wesley   11   11   79   1.00         
39   Wabash   11   15   102   1.36   
90   Case Reserve   11   N/A   N/A   1.82   
105   N.C. Wesleyan   11   N/A   N/A   1.91   
119   Wis.-Whitewater   11   N/A   N/A   2.09   
176   Muhlenberg   11   N/A   N/A   2.64   
184   North Central (Ill.)   11   N/A   N/A   2.73   

NCAA Football                  
Division III  Kickoff Return Defense                  
Through Games 11/17/2007                  


Rank   Name   G   Opp KO Ret   Opp KO Ret Yds   Opp Kick Ret TDs   Avg
19   Muhlenberg   11   61   920   0   15.08
20   N.C. Wesleyan   11   66   997   1   15.11
28   Case Reserve   11   64   1009   0   15.77
30   Mary Hardin-Baylor   11   89   1411   0   15.85
51   Wesley   11   N/A   N/A   N/A   17.11
65   Wabash   11   N/A   N/A   N/A   17.56
151   Wis.-Whitewater   11   N/A   N/A   N/A   19.70
163   North Central (Ill.)   11   N/A   N/A   N/A   20.15

NCAA Football                  
Division III  Punt Return Defense                  
Through Games 11/17/2007                  


Rank   Name   G   Opp Punt Ret   Opp Punt Ret Yds   Opp Punt Ret TDs   Avg
25   Wis.-Whitewater   11   19   94   0   4.95
49   Wesley   11   15   90   1   6.00
57   North Central (Ill.)   11   N/A   N/A   N/A   6.44
63   Muhlenberg   11   N/A   N/A   N/A   6.72
66   Wabash   11   N/A   N/A   N/A   6.79
88   Case Reserve   11   N/A   N/A   N/A   7.50
92   Mary Hardin-Baylor   11   N/A   N/A   N/A   7.67
153   N.C. Wesleyan   11   N/A   N/A   N/A   9.45

NCAA Football                  
Division III  Turnovers Lost                  
Through Games 11/17/2007                  


Rank   Name   G   Fum Lost   Int   Turn Lost   
3   Muhlenberg   11   5   4   9   
38   Case Reserve   11   11   6   17   
49   Wabash   11   6   12   18   
69   North Central (Ill.)   11   N/A   N/A   20   
87   Wis.-Whitewater   11   N/A   N/A   21   
106   Mary Hardin-Baylor   11   N/A   N/A   22
160   Wesley   11   N/A   N/A   26
183   N.C. Wesleyan   11   N/A   N/A   28

NCAA Football               
Division III  Turnovers Gained               
Through Games 11/17/2007               


Rank   Name   G   Opp Fum   Opp Int   Turn Gain
1   Mary Hardin-Baylor   11   18   26   44
3   Wis.-Whitewater   11   14   25   39
3   N.C. Wesleyan   11   17   22   39
18   Case Reserve   11   14   18   32
28   North Central (Ill.)   11   10   20   30
59   Wesley   11   N/A   N/A   26
59   Muhlenberg   11   N/A   N/A   26
187   Wabash   11   N/A   N/A   17

NCAA Football               
Division III  Passes Had Intercepted               
Through Games 11/17/2007               


Rank   Name   G   Pass Att   Int   
4   Muhlenberg   11   253   4   
16   Case Reserve   11   336   6   
34   Mary Hardin-Baylor   11   178   8   
49   Wesley   11   310   9   
49   Wis.-Whitewater   11   282   9   
68   North Central (Ill.)   11   N/A   10   
133   Wabash   11   N/A   11   
155   N.C. Wesleyan   11   N/A   15

NCAA Football            
Division III  Fumbles Lost            
Through Games 11/17/2007            


Rank   Name   G   Fum Lost   
7   Muhlenberg   11   5   
18   Wabash   11   6   
111   North Central (Ill.)   11   10   
139   Case Reserve   11   11   
155   Wis.-Whitewater   11   12   
176   N.C. Wesleyan   11   13   
195   Mary Hardin-Baylor   11   14   
219   Wesley   11   17   

NCAA Football            
Division III  Passes Intercepted            
Through Games 11/17/2007            


Rank   Name   G   Opp Pass   Opp Int
1   Mary Hardin-Baylor   11   427   26
2   Wis.-Whitewater   11   373   25
7   N.C. Wesleyan   11   311   22
17   North Central (Ill.)   11   355   20
35   Case Reserve   11   340   18
45   Wesley   11   350   17
116   Muhlenberg   11   N/A   12
133   Wabash   11   N/A   11

NCAA Football                  
Division III  Team Net Punting                  
Through Games 11/17/2007                  


Rank   Name   Punt Yds   Opp Punt Ret Yds   Punts   TB   Net Yds
12   Wis.-Whitewater   2216   94   58   4   35.21
13   North Central (Ill.)   1908   103   48   6   35.10
24   Wabash   1392   95   36   3   34.36
32   Mary Hardin-Baylor   1800   184   44   6   34.00
84   Wesley   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   31.67
111   Case Reserve   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   30.50
113   Muhlenberg   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   30.47
152   N.C. Wesleyan   N/A   N/A   N/A   N/A   29.56

NCAA Football                  
Division III  Fumbles Recovered         
Through Games 11/17/2007         


Rank   Name   G   Opp Fum
3   Mary Hardin-Baylor   11   18
6   N.C. Wesleyan   11   17
25   Case Reserve   11   14
25   Wis.-Whitewater   11   14
25   Muhlenberg   11   14
101   North Central (Ill.)   11   10
119   Wesley   11   9
191   Wabash   11   6
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 20, 2007, 06:15:57 PM
Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaammmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!

+1 roocru

can you find me some tax breaks  :D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: muledaddy on November 20, 2007, 07:08:35 PM
Roocru,

You, my friend, are truly doing the rest of us lost sheep, mules, and wolverines a great service.....After all this time, as I suspected, the
numbers do support the Lambert poll ranking of Mules over Wesley.

It seems that Mules are a lot like Whitewater in many key areas.
Saturday should play very interesting, based on your chart. The Mule
d and the Wesley o  will certainly have something to determine,
according to the numbers.
As a crossed-species type, I must, and I mean must give Muletime the edge.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: @d3jason on November 20, 2007, 08:14:32 PM
Quote from: muledaddy on November 20, 2007, 07:08:35 PM

It seems that Mules are a lot like Whitewater in many key areas.


If you've ever seen Whitewater?, aww never mind.  :-X
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 20, 2007, 08:52:00 PM
Quote from: Conrad on November 20, 2007, 08:14:32 PM
Quote from: muledaddy on November 20, 2007, 07:08:35 PM

It seems that Mules are a lot like Whitewater in many key areas.


If you've ever seen Whitewater?, aww never mind.  :-X

About the only thing they have in common is they both have 52 man rosters for their playoff games ;D Do I get a prize?? ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: wesleydad on November 20, 2007, 09:08:03 PM
mule, you are really starting to sound like your name sake.  to try and compare your mules to uww is mule-i-nine.  to have fun with a quote from a presidential candidate i cant name at this moment, i have seen the mule and i have seen the warhawks, and you are no warhawks.  the stats that many posters are showing seem to favor wesley.  the bottom line is this, if wesley does not commit more than 1 turnover, this game will not be competitive.  i base this on the fact that it seems that the only reason that the mules are undefeated is due to mistakes made by other teams.  after reading several of the mules press clippings, that is the conclusion i come to.  wesley did not play well early in the year and still defeated uncw, del val, and widener, not because of mistakes by the other team, but because wesley is that good.  their only lose may have been their worse game, not yardage wise, but execution wise.  with the field position they had in that game they should have scored in the 50's and despite that they were a bad decision by the qb from tying the game and going ot, where they almost certainly would have won the game.  keep supporting your team, it is why we watch them play, but be real in your hopes.  everyone has a punchers chance, which is all i give the mules.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: muledaddy on November 20, 2007, 09:53:58 PM
Wesleydad, I like your style. All we ask is a puncher's chance. Thank you.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: muledaddy on November 21, 2007, 05:13:28 PM
Wsleydad,

Happy Thanksgiving to you and your loved ones. I concede that there is a srong case to be made for statistical superiority by Wesley on paper, thus the higher
poll ratings/seeding in the tournament. Did the Colorado Rockies show anything on paper that could possibly explain, or even hint at, their post season run? No.
Did it happen? Yes........Let's just wait and see what happens on saturday...the
pressure is all on Wesley...there are no expectation plaaced on us SMules.... the game should be fun....
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: wesleydad on November 21, 2007, 06:24:41 PM
mule, thank you and the same to you and yours.  wesley will not be feeling any pressure, they have been here b4 and expected to be at least this far again.  some of the players feel they have something to prove this year, that the last 2 years were not a fluke and this years version is at least as good as the last 2.  i cant wait for saturday, i know at my age i shouldnt rush days away, but this has been fun for the last 3 years.  i have always enjoyed watching my kids play ball, but this has been way beyond anything i would have expected.  i have met some great people these last 3 years and hope to meet some more on the journey, you included.  i have plenty to be thankful for this thanksgiving, my younger son who is the army, is home from ft campbell for the holidays.  he is scheduled to be deployed to afghanistan at the end of december for 15 months so this is really a special time.  make sure you stop by, i am easy to find, i wear an army bucket hat from my son and we are always on the left side of the tailgate area as you enter, near the fenced in playground.  we have a good time before and after the game.  met the stone station guys last week and they are supposed to be in the house again this week.  pawesleyfan will also be there.  stop by and share an adult beverage if you would like, i have no problem sharing with an opponent, i believe in allowing people to drown their sorrows. ::)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on November 22, 2007, 09:38:55 AM
I must be just about the only guy here that's a fan of a team that hasn't either attended the school or has a kid there, hehehehe.  I live in the neighborhood, so me and my wife walk over and watch Wesley's games.  I am really looking forward to the game.  My feeling is that the Mule's run will work for about a quarter before Wesley dials it in and starts exploiting it.  This is what usually happens.  It doesn't look like the Mules have much of a passing game (the complete opposite of HSC), so we'll see what happens.   I think (and hope) that Wesley will take the game quite seriously and focus on the task a hand......

-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on November 22, 2007, 09:52:34 AM
.......Oh and for anybody going to the game, I'm easily found standing up and down, yelling throughout the game in the middle of the stands.... ;D  I'm about the loudest guy out there except Uncle  Frank and the fine gentlemen heckling the defense right next to the press box......

-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: old ends on November 22, 2007, 06:14:16 PM
Will the travel for NCW effect their play. Last week to Western PA and this week to Tx??
Can the NCW pull off( I really do not want to say upset)  another victory against MHB???

If the NCW offense can keep ball control and rest their defense, I think they may have a very good chance.

Comments
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: muledaddy on November 23, 2007, 09:23:59 AM
Re: NCW vs MHB

It's a tough stretch of road from beating  Wand J (as predicted correctly by Muledad in Post 966 on 11/12 on Centenniel Board) to takling tough in Texas.

I think it can be done , but its a longshot and I wouldn't bet  on it.

Turning to this week"s best chance for an unforgettable headline, it has to be
MULES KICK WOLVERINES.....

Against all odds, like David and Goliath, and with the sprit of Stallone in Rocky II,
the downtrodden, oppressed, and disrespected trubelievers of the world, the
MULES,  come to Dover with the same positive enthusiasm and work ethic, a deep and abiding faith, and a la desire to keep playing that will not be denied.

MULES 30   WOLVERINES 24...and that's the way it is....
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on November 23, 2007, 09:25:32 AM
People are entitled to dreams you know.....   :P

-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Smith Reed on November 23, 2007, 10:18:11 AM
The NCW defense will be tested as it has been all year. The defense
seems to get stronger as the games go on. If they come out strong
on Saturday, the defense will create for the offense. If the NCW
coaching staff has enough scouting material and film to work with is
also what will help level the playing field. GO BISHOPS!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Toby Taff on November 23, 2007, 10:42:43 AM
It should be interesting.  It'll be cold (in the high 30's/low 40's @ game time) and there is an 80% chance of precipitation.  For those coming to watch, bring something waterproof  and warm.  There's not much protection from the elements in Belton.  Y'all have a safe trip and we'll see you tomorrow,
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 23, 2007, 03:44:30 PM
Quote from: muledaddy on November 23, 2007, 09:23:59 AM
Re: NCW vs MHB

It's a tough stretch of road from beating  Wand J (as predicted correctly by Muledad in Post 966 on 11/12 on Centenniel Board) to takling tough in Texas.

I think it can be done , but its a longshot and I wouldn't bet  on it.

Turning to this week"s best chance for an unforgettable headline, it has to be
MULES KICK WOLVERINES.....

Against all odds, like David and Goliath, and with the sprit of Stallone in Rocky II,
the downtrodden, oppressed, and disrespected trubelievers of the world, the
MULES,  come to Dover with the same positive enthusiasm and work ethic, a deep and abiding faith, and a la desire to keep playing that will not be denied.

MULES 30   WOLVERINES 24...and that's the way it is....


I think that there were about 5 mentions of David and Goliath last week too. And I will tell you the same thing muledaddy.. Goliath couldn't outrun the stone!!! Wesley players CAN!!!! 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: kickerdad on November 23, 2007, 04:10:03 PM
Does anyone know who sets the kickoff time for the playoff games? Seems odd that during the season, 90% of the games start at 1:00 PM or after. I notice that most of the games this weekend are at noon. However a few are 1:00 PM. Is there any rhyme or reason for this?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 23, 2007, 04:20:36 PM
kickerdad

One reason is the the changing of the clocks from daylight savings time... When the time was changed holloween weekend a lot of teams changed to12:00 because of the early sunset.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: old ends on November 23, 2007, 04:24:42 PM
How many of the DIV III teams have light's?  Next year Dickinson is going to have them. Would love to see a night game in the late summer there.

Good luck to all teams Saturday
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: kickerdad on November 23, 2007, 04:31:36 PM
Quote from: old ends on November 23, 2007, 04:24:42 PM
How many of the DIV III teams have light's?  Next year Dickinson is going to have them. Would love to see a night game in the late summer there.

Good luck to all teams Saturday

We played 3 night games this year. One of course was at Salem and that stadium is owned by the city......Guilford and Shenandoah both have lights. Night games are exciting but they can put a strain on you if you have to travel 4 hours or longer.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2007, 10:15:53 PM
Actually, all Division III playoff games are at noon local time. Some are in the Eastern time zone and some in Central.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 24, 2007, 07:14:31 PM
South Region playoffs come down to the best 2 teams.  Did anyone really doubt that two weeks ago?  I am actually glad that UMHB was #4, so that this meeting would occur in the third week.  I actually think that UMHB should have been seeded #1 and Wesley #2.  I also wonder if Trinity wasn't at least the 4th best team in the Region, just barely behind an undefeated Muhlenberg. 

I still believe that the northern half of the region gets an advantage by the proximity to multiple conferences.  This permits the permutations of OWP and OOWP to play out to their fullest.

I wish that Miss College and Millsaps had been able to play the northern teams in the region!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on November 24, 2007, 09:00:28 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 24, 2007, 07:14:31 PM
South Region playoffs come down to the best 2 teams.  Did anyone really doubt that two weeks ago?  I am actually glad that UMHB was #4, so that this meeting would occur in the third week.  I actually think that UMHB should have been seeded #1 and Wesley #2.  I also wonder if Trinity wasn't at least the 4th best team in the Region, just barely behind an undefeated Muhlenberg. 


And you say this why?  I believe Wesley had the tougher schedule, unless I missed something.....

-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 24, 2007, 09:05:25 PM
Ski, I think we settle that one on Saturday. :)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on November 25, 2007, 12:22:25 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 24, 2007, 09:05:25 PM
Ski, I think we settle that one on Saturday. :)

Of course..... ;)


-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: roocru on November 26, 2007, 11:28:39 PM
Once again just posting this for everyone's enjoyment and edification.  No claims being made on my part.  ;) I stuck to the South Region this week and added some individual rankings as well!

Category      Rank   Actual   National Leader   Actual   
Total Offense (231 ranked)
   UMHB   2   526.5   Mount Union   548.3   
   Wesley   9   486.3         
Total Defense (231 ranked)
   Wesley   16   258.8   Mount Union   128.4   
   UMHB   20   265.4         
Rushing Offense (231 ranked)
   UMHB   1   382.4   Mary Hardin-Baylor   382.4   
   Wesley   14   261.3         
Rushing Defense (231 ranked)
   UMHB   2   36.2   Mount Union   12.8   
   Wesley   21   88.8         
Passing Offense (231 ranked)
   Wesley   69   224.9   Guilford   376.9   
   UMHB   192   144.1         
Pass Efficiency Defense (231 ranked)
   Wesley   14   91.8   Mount Union   71.5   
   UMHB   44   100.9         
Scoring Offense (231 ranked)
   UMHB   1   56.1   Mary Hardin-Baylor   56.1
   Wesley   12   38.1      
Scoring Defense (231 ranked)
   UMHB   31   16.8   Mount Union   4.1
   Wesley   33   16.8      
Turnover Margin (231 ranked)
   UMHB   2   2.1   Whitworth   2.6
   Wesley   132   -0.2      
Team Kickoff Returns (231 ranked)
   Wesley   6   23.91   Wis.-La Crosse   26
   UMHB   204   16.75      
Team Punt Returns (231 ranked)
   Wesley   18   12.82   Ithaca   18.06
   UMHB   35   11.46      
Team Tackles for Loss (231 ranked)
   UMHB   1   11.4   Mary Hardin-Baylor   11.4
   Wesley   17   9.3      
Team Pass Sacks (231 ranked)
   UMHB   5   4.08   Capital   4.55
   Wesley   56   2.67      
Team Passing Efficiency (231 ranked)
   UMHB   6   161.74   Mount Union   193.39
   Wesley   36   140.24      
Pass Sacks Allowed (231 ranked)
   UMHB   3   0.67   Mount Ida   0.6
   Wesley   14   1.00   Springfield   0.6
Kickoff Return Defense (231 ranked)
   UMHB   26   15.58   Lewis & Clark   11.96
   Wesley   70   17.74      
Punt Return Defense (231 ranked)
   Wesley   50   6   Tufts   1.8
   UMHB   79   7.24      
Turnovers Lost (231 ranked)
   UMHB   121   24   Hobart   7
   Wesley   191   29      
Turnovers Gained (231 ranked)
   UMHB   1   49   Mary Hardin-Baylor   49
   Wesley   52   27      
Passes Had Intercepted (231 ranked)
   UMHB   34   8   Rockford   2
   Wesley   47   9      
Fumbles Lost (231 ranked)
   UMHB   212   16   Allegheny   2
   Wesley   229   20   Manchester   2
Passes Intercepted (231 ranked)
   UMHB   1   28   Mary Hardin-Baylor   28
   Wesley   36   18      
Team Net Punting (231 ranked)
   UMHB   33   33.72   Occidental   39.02   
   Wesley   88   31.56         
Fumbles Recovered (231 ranked)
   Wesley   2   21   Shenandoah   22   
   UMHB   121   9
         
Category      Player   Rank   Actual   National Leader   Actual
Rushing Yards Per Game (500 ranked)
   UMHB   Jarvis Thrasher   7   145.4   Robert Heller, Waynesburg   197.8
   Wesley   Mike Pennewell   14   131.2      
   UMHB   Quincy Daniels   22   115.9      
   Wesley   Aaron Jackson   166   61.0      
   UMHB   Chris Owen   307   41.1      
   Wesley   Alpha Koroma   391   30.8      
   UMHB   Josh Welch   500   22.3      
Passing Efficiency (500 ranked)
   Wesley   Jason Schatz   41   138.80   Greg Micheli, Mount Union   202.2
   UMHB   Josh Welch   NR   153.89      
Total Offense (500 ranked)
   Wesley   Jason Schatz   72   217.5   Jason Boltus, Hartwk   399.7
   UMHB   Jarvis Thrasher   165   145.4      
   Wesley   Mike Pennewell   189   131.2      
   UMHB   Josh Welch   204   124.3      
   UMHB   Quincy Daniels   212   115.9      
   Wesley   Aaron Jackson   403   61      
   UMHB   Josh Saenz   445   53.3      
Receptions Per Game (500 ranked)
   Wesley   Michael Clarke   241   3.7   Hagen Miller, Guilford   10.3
   Wesley   Jon Lanouette   322   3.3      
   Wesley   Larry Beavers   343   3.2      
   UMHB   Patrick Oliver   476   2.6      
Receiving Yards Per Game (500 ranked)
   Wesley   Michael Clarke   105   69.9   Jack Phelan, Hartwk   148
   Wesley   Larry Beavers   189   55.5      
   UMHB   Patrick Oliver   227   50.9      
   Wesley   Jon Lanouette   312   42.7      
Scoring (500 ranked)
   UMHB   Jarvis Thrasher   10   11.5   Nate Kmic, Mount Union   15.5
   UMHB   Quincy Daniels   16   10      
   UMHB   Joel Munoz   25   9.4      
   Wesley   Collin Blugis   90         
   UMHB   Chris Owen   129   6.5      
   UMHB   Patrick Oliver   129   6.5      
   Wesley   Larry Beavers   133   6.5      
   Wesley   Michael Clarke   333   4.5      
   Wesley   Mike Pennewell   411   4      
All Purpose (500 ranked)
   Wesley   Jarvis Thrasher   30   151.4   Tyler Sherden, Luther   222
   UMHB   Quincy Daniels      137.2      
   UMHB   Mike Pennewell   64   132.5      
   UMHB   Chris Owen   328   80      
   Wesley   Larry Beavers   66   131.5      
   Wesley   Michael Clarke   405   71.3      
   Wesley   Aaron Jackson   489   64.5      
Punt Returns (500 ranked)
   Wesley   Blair Newman   12   14.1   Jason Chier, Ithaca   20.4
   UMHB   Brett Parker   15   13.8      
Kickoff Returns (500 ranked)
   Wesley   Larry Beavers   2   32.1   Kareen Moon, Wm. Paterson   34.8
   UMHB   NR   NR   NR      
Field Goals Per Game (500 ranked)
   Wesley   Joel Munoz   33   0.9   Jeff Schebler, Wis.-Whitewater   1.9
   UMHB   Collin Blugis   45   0.8      
Punting (500 ranked)
   Wesley   NR   NR   NR   Alex Groh, Occidental   45.9
   UMHB   NR   NR   NR      
Interceptions (500 ranked)
   Wesley   Chet Turner   49   0.5   Phil Schroer, Neb. Wesleyan   1
   UMHB   Derr Williams   103   0.4      
   UMHB   Brett Parker   176   0.4      
   UMHB   Lee Munn   192   0.3      
   Wesley   Trae Swann   199   0.3      
   UMHB   Bryson Tucker   333   0.3      
   UMHB   Elliott Barcak   468   0.2      
   Wesley   Tim Stewart   468   0.2      
   Wesley   Jeremiah Santiago   468   0.2      
Total Tackles (500 ranked)
   Wesley   Sean Matthews   135   8.6   Jason Fielding, Westfield St.   15.7
   UMHB   Jerrell Freeman   207   8      
   Wesley   Bryan Robinson   492   6.6      
Solo Tackles (500 ranked)
   UMHB   Jerrell Freeman   371   3.9   Kyle Follweiler, Wilkes   9.4
   Wesley   Sean Matthews   463   3.8      
Pass Sacks (500 ranked)
   Wesley   Bryan Robinson   21   1   Mike Czerwien, Waynesburg   2.1
   UMHB   Chad Hilton   82   0.7      
   UMHB   William DeWease   167   0.5      
   UMHB   Jerrell Freeman   169   0.5      
   UMHB   Eric Henri   169   0.5      
   Wesley   Michael Ward   169   0.5      
   Wesley   Josh Nevid   375   0.4      
Tackles For Loss (500 ranked)
   Wesley   Bryan Robinson   7   2.2   Mike Czerwien, Waynesburg   3.1
   UMHB   Jerrell Freeman   95   1.4      
   UMHB   Eric Henri   115   1.3      
   UMHB   William DeWease   133   1.3      
   UMHB   Chad Hilton   176   1.2      
   Wesley   Sean Matthews   176   1.2      
   Wesley   Josh Nevid   272   1      
   Wesley   Michael Ward   412   0.9      
Forced Fumbles (500 ranked)
   UMHB   John Hamilton   67   0.27   Brian Cilento, Kean   0.6
   Wesley   Josh Jones   72   0.25      
   UMHB   Ben Beckworth   136   0.2      
   UMHB   Eric Henri   261   0.18      
   UMHB   Jerrell Freeman   290   0.17      
   UMHB   Jason Miller   290   0.17      
   UMHB   Chad Hilton   290   0.17      
   Wesley   Sean Matthews   290   0.17      
   Wesley   Carlos James   440   0.11      
   Wesley   Eston Ennis   440   0.11      
Passes Defended (500 ranked)
   UMHB   Brett Parker   45   1.5   Rob Leighton, Maine Maritime   2.1
   Wesley   Chet Turner   50   1.4      
   UMHB   Derr Williams   151   1.1      
   UMHB   Elliott Barcak   155   1      
   UMHB   Calvin Fleming   300   0.8      
   Wesley   Jeremiah Santiago   155   1      
   Wesley   Marcus Morris   380   0.8      
   Wesley   Bryan Robinson   380   0.8      
Passing Yards (500 ranked)
   Wesley   Jason Schatz   27   2531   Jason Boltus, Hartwk   3986
   UMHB   Josh Welch   161   1224      
   UMHB   Josh Saenz   251   399      
   UMHB   Patrick Oliver   296   78      
   UMHB   Chris Owen   395   12      
   Wesley   Larry Beavers   357   28      
Rushing Yards (500 ranked)
   UMHB   Jarvis Thrasher   3   1745   Robert Heller, Waynesburg   2176
   Wesley   Mike Pennewell   6   1574      
   UMHB   Quincy Daniels   12   1391      
   Wesley   Aaron Jackson   128   671      
   UMHB   Chris Owens   254   452      
   Wesley   Alpha Koroma   312   369      
   UMHB   Josh Welch   431   267      
   UMHB   Josh Saenz   462   240      
   Wesley   Larry Beavers   469   230      
Receiving Yards (500 ranked)
   Wesley   Michael Clarke   56   839   Jack Phelan, Hartwk   1628
   Wesley   Larry Beavers   119   666      
   UMHB   Patrick Oliver   170   560      
   Wesley   Jon Lanouette   247   470      
   UMHB   Cole Smith   473   306      
Passing Yards Per Game (500 ranked)
   Wesley   Jason Schatz   60   210.9   Jason Boltus, Hartwk   362.4
   UMHB   Josh Welch   189   102      
   UMHB   Josh Saenz   260   33.3      
   UMHB   Patrick Oliver   299   7.1      
   Wesley   Larry Beavers   370   2.3      
   UMHB   Chris Owen   402   1.1      
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on November 27, 2007, 10:08:11 AM
Boy,

From those stats, I guess we can assume that Wesley will be pounded into oblivion, hehehehehe.....

-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: old ends on November 27, 2007, 04:18:21 PM
I love those numbers.. which really do not show that much of a difference overall. There is only a 40 yard difference in overall total offense and a 7 yd difference in total defense. Turnover ratio is greater for UMHB by 2. Looks like for Wesley to win-- Hold onto the ball-- stop long runs--get longer runs-- tell UMHB that the game is in Dover NJ not DE. that was an attemp at humor.

Really overall game look to be close.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: muledaddy on August 04, 2008, 08:12:42 PM
Good evening ,

Wesley looks pretty impressive preseason.......same record as everyone else....let  the games begin...

in Beijing, Dover, and Allentown........looking for a rematch in November...enjoy the games...
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 02, 2008, 01:38:13 AM
Interesting things after today's games.  Trinity losing was predictable, though I personally thought the game would have been a little closer.  W&J losing to Thomas More wasn't unforeseen, as the Saints have been having a nice season.  The two together, though, have a significant impact on the South Region playoffs this year.  Here are my fan projections and analysis with two weeks left to go...

My Projected South Region Playoff Seeds(based on SOS standings)
1.   Millsaps
2.   Mary Hardin-Baylor
3.   Hardin-Simmons
4.   Wesley
5.   Thomas More
6.   Catholic
7.   USAC Rep (Christopher Newport or Ferrum)
8.   SLIAC Rep (LaGrange or Huntingdon)

My Projected South Region First-Round Playoff Pairings
8.  SLIAC Rep at 1.  Millsaps
3.  Hardin-Simmons at 2.  Mary Hardin-Baylor

7.  USAC Rep at 4.  Wesley
6.  Catholic at 5.  Thomas More

My Analysis
1.  Washington and Jefferson's loss today almost assures that a South Region team will get shipped out of region for the first round.  Muhlenberg is the most likely candidate--and this projection gets shipped to the East Region as the 1 or 2 seed, assuming they win one of their final two games.  Thomas More could also get shipped into the North Region. 

The pairings listed above work out so that there are no flights in the first round.  In this scenario, there could potentially be only one flight, and that would be for the regional final--but there would be a maximum of three flights.  If Thomas More gets shipped to the North Region, there's a guaranteed flight for the regional final, but that could potentially be the only flight in this region.  In the Thomas More scenario, there's a maximum of two flights.

2.  Washington & Jefferson losing, most unfortunately, also all but assures another first round rematch for the two ASC teams, Hardin-Simmons and Mary Hardin-Baylor, with the winner traveling to Jackson, MS to play Millsaps in the second round.  Millsaps deservs a home game, and the only way they can host without a flight is by being paired against either the SLIAC Rep or Mary Hardin-Baylor.  Since the committee will likely look less favorably upon a 1 vs. 2 seed matchup in the first round than they would a conference rematch (which they seem to have no problem with when dealing with the Texas teams), it's likely they will choose the "lesser" of two evils and re-match the two ASC teams in the first round.

I can't see the NCAA breaking with precedent (i.e. spending money on flights in the South Region) just to create a more "fair" bracket for the two ASC teams.

3.  With the W&J loss paired with Millsaps dismantling of Trinity, it looks fairly iffy that the SCAC or the PAC will get at-large bids.  Washington & Jefferson probably has a slightly better shot than Trinity, but since there are only six at-large berths, they're going to have to make their case against a lot of teams that are ahead or virtually even with them in the SOS rankings to get one.  Some of these teams include (in no particular order):

The Oxy/Willamette loser
The Mt. Union/Otterbein loser
Trine (if they lose to Adrian)
RPI (if they lose to Hobart)
The Huntingdon/LaGrange Loser
Montclair State
Rowan
Hampden-Sydney
Hardin-Simmons
Wisconsin-Whitewater
The Christopher Newport/Ferrum Loser

With only two weeks left in the season, it will certainly be interesting to see how everything gets fleshed out.  This is how I see it breaking right now and why, though.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 02, 2008, 02:50:13 AM
Thanks for your thoughts, Josh.  :)


I think that the committee can get a "cleaner" bracket if they make an undefeated Muhlenberg the #1 seed (or even #2 seed), and ship Thomas More to the "north".

2) Millsaps (SCAC "A") vs 8 ) SLIAC Pool B either Huntingdon or LaGrange.
3) UMHB (ASC "A") vs 4) HSU  (Pool C)

1) Muhlenberg (CC Pool "A") vs 7) Catholic  (ODAC Pool "A")
5) Wesley (Pool B) vs 6) USA South (Pool "A")

I get Thomas More to Catholic as 493 miles on my attempt at Microsoft Maps shortest distance.  (I hope that I am using the official version of the software.)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 02, 2008, 08:39:20 AM
The only official NCAA mileage-checker is here:
https://web1.ncaa.org/TES/exec/miles

Accessible to all. But 527 from Thomas More to Catholic.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 02, 2008, 08:41:47 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 02, 2008, 08:39:20 AM
The only official NCAA mileage-checker is here:
https://web1.ncaa.org/TES/exec/miles

Accessible to all. But 527 from Thomas More to Catholic.
Okay!

Thomas More to the "North" Bracket.  Muhlenberg stays in the "South".
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 02, 2008, 10:00:52 AM
That's all interesting, because (I admittedly checked the mileage using Mapquest, not the other software), Crestview Hills, KY to Washington, DC is 484 miles.  Wonder where that extra 40 miles comes from?

It likely doesn't matter--the more I think about it, the more Ralph's comment about my original thought is right on--Muhlenberg in the South Region does provide a cleaner bracket.  Thomas More is probably going to be more likely to get shipped out of region than the Mules.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: old ends on November 02, 2008, 11:44:43 AM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on November 02, 2008, 10:00:52 AM
That's all interesting, because (I admittedly checked the mileage using Mapquest, not the other software), Crestview Hills, KY to Washington, DC is 484 miles.  Wonder where that extra 40 miles comes from?

NCAA used the outer loop of the beltway.
I agree, Ralph makes a correct call, but will NCAA?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: muledaddy on November 02, 2008, 04:13:23 PM


Mates,

I like Ralph's view better, wtih Mules staying home...why not?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 02, 2008, 07:43:55 PM
The way this is playing out, I can imagine either Millsaps or Muhlenberg deserving 3 home games in the playoffs.

The other team in that pair deserves 2 home games in the playoffs.

I can give UMHB a home game for the Texas sub-bracket.

The other home game is up for grabs in the northern half of the bracket, either Wesley, CNU/Ferrum or Catholic.

I still think that Thomas More gets shipped to the "North" Bracket!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 05, 2008, 12:55:31 PM
Regional rankings are out.

1. Millsaps 7-0 8-0 - Pool A
2. Muhlenberg 8-0 8-0 - Pool A
3. Mary Hardin-Baylor 6-0 7-1 - Pool A
4. Hardin-Simmons 8-1 8-1 - Pool C
5. Thomas More 7-1 7-1 - Pool A
6. Huntingdon 7-0 8-0 - Pool B/[C with L but would be lower in ranking]
7. Trinity (Texas) 6-1 7-1 - Pool C
8. Washington and Jefferson 6-1 7-1 - Pool C
9. Catholic 6-1 7-1 - Pool A
10. Wesley 2-1 6-1 - Pool B/C

Good news for Millsaps at #1, tho their OWP will go down from here.   HSU in excellent position to get pool C bid.

Good news for Trinity to be above W&J and Wesley.   Huntingdon above them will hopefully get a pool B bid or lose and drop below them. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 05, 2008, 12:57:16 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 02, 2008, 08:41:47 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 02, 2008, 08:39:20 AM
The only official NCAA mileage-checker is here:
https://web1.ncaa.org/TES/exec/miles

Accessible to all. But 527 from Thomas More to Catholic.
Okay!

Thomas More to the "North" Bracket.  Muhlenberg stays in the "South".

That should be really good news for Trinity!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: AF4 on November 05, 2008, 02:06:44 PM
Huntingdon must play 2 tough ones ...including LaGrange in 2 wks

i am wondering why LaGrange (to quote the LC contigent )  is not being shown any love in the poll ?

...they are 8-0 in D-3 play... and thier only loss came in the way of a close game with a ranked NAIA team !

i have no dawg in thier fight.... just curious

keep the faith
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Hawks88 on November 05, 2008, 02:25:43 PM
Quote from: AF4 on November 05, 2008, 02:06:44 PM
Huntingdon must play 2 tough ones ...including LaGrange in 2 wks

i am wondering why LaGrange (to quote the LC contigent )  is not being shown any love in the poll ?

...they are 8-0 in D-3 play... and thier only loss came in the way of a close game with a ranked NAIA team !

i have no dawg in thier fight.... just curious

keep the faith
Actually LaGrange is 7-0 in region(B'ham Southern doesn't count yet). Basically LaGrange is the exact same 7-0 as Huntingdon as we have both played all of our other conference teams and both beat Maryville out of conference. Don't get me wrong, I am happy as can be that we are ranked where we are but I don't see how LaGrange isn't included when their region record is exactly the same against the same teams.


Go Hawks!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: AF4 on November 05, 2008, 02:35:15 PM
Hawk88....MY MAN

i stand corrected...i forgot that BSC was just 2nd yr

hope to see u sat... gots to hunker down

keep the faith
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: The Forgotten Man on November 05, 2008, 03:14:36 PM
Quote from: Hawks88 on November 05, 2008, 02:25:43 PM

Actually LaGrange is 7-0 in region(B'ham Southern doesn't count yet). Basically LaGrange is the exact same 7-0 as Huntingdon as we have both played all of our other conference teams and both beat Maryville out of conference. Don't get me wrong, I am happy as can be that we are ranked where we are but I don't see how LaGrange isn't included when their region record is exactly the same against the same teams.


Go Hawks!!

Thanks. That's what I'm talking about.

Good luck to the Hawks this weekend.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 05, 2008, 04:11:40 PM
I think that LaGrange is a close "11th".

The glaring fact that I see out of this poll is the impact that the ".500" OWP/OOWP has on UMHB.  HSU gets boost by their games with Linfield and maybe UWLC to vault above other 1-loss teams, but UMHB is stuck with only the OWP/OOWP of the other 8 ASC teams contributing to that number!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 05, 2008, 04:19:47 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 05, 2008, 12:55:31 PM
Regional rankings are out.

1. Millsaps 7-0 8-0 - Pool A
2. Muhlenberg 8-0 8-0 - Pool A
3. Mary Hardin-Baylor 6-0 7-1 - Pool A
4. Hardin-Simmons 8-1 8-1 - Pool C
5. Thomas More 7-1 7-1 - Pool A
6. Huntingdon 7-0 8-0 - Pool B/[C with L but would be lower in ranking]
7. Trinity (Texas) 6-1 7-1 - Pool C
8. Washington and Jefferson 6-1 7-1 - Pool C
9. Catholic 6-1 7-1 - Pool A
10. Wesley 2-1 6-1 - Pool B/C

Good news for Millsaps at #1, tho their OWP will go down from here.   HSU in excellent position to get pool C bid.

Good news for Trinity to be above W&J and Wesley.   Huntingdon above them will hopefully get a pool B bid or lose and drop below them. 


Wrong in-reigon record for Wesley.  They are 3-1 in-region!  Widener counts in the 200-mile radius rule!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: crudbdad on November 05, 2008, 04:55:41 PM
Ralph-
If the NCAA is going to stick to the 500 mile rule then what is the importance of seeds. In a normal 1-8 where 1 vs 8; 2 vs 7 etc.. the seedings take on more relevance. Right now UMHB is no.3 but could face the possibility of playing Milsaps in the 1st round due to that rule. Muhlenberg is 289 from W&J so does that mean if all holds true they play as 2 vs 7? Thomsas More is 550 from Huntingdon so that would be a 5 vs 6. I wish the evil empire would put more credence in ranking the teams and letting them play the games as ranked not by the mileage. I am sure Trinity and Hardin-Simmons would prefer new opponents as well.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 05, 2008, 05:05:22 PM
crudbdad,  that is too logical.  Expect something weird when the pairings are announced.   ;D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 05, 2008, 05:38:30 PM
Quote from: crudbdad on November 05, 2008, 04:55:41 PM
Ralph-
If the NCAA is going to stick to the 500 mile rule then what is the importance of seeds. In a normal 1-8 where 1 vs 8; 2 vs 7 etc.. the seedings take on more relevance. Right now UMHB is no.3 but could face the possibility of playing Millsaps in the 1st round due to that rule. Muhlenberg is 289 from W&J so does that mean if all holds true they play as 2 vs 7? Thomas More is 550 from Huntingdon so that would be a 5 vs 6. I wish the evil empire would put more credence in ranking the teams and letting them play the games as ranked not by the mileage. I am sure Trinity and Hardin-Simmons would prefer new opponents as well.
I think that UMHB gets one playoff game, as a #3.

Muhlenberg or Millsaps will get two games, and the #1 seed can have a 3rd.

The crux of the matter is cash for travel and missed school time.

Geographic proximity is hard-wired into the Handbook!

Please remember that there are only 3 Pool B bids (and I think that the Huntingdon LaGrange winner gets one.)

Huntingdon/LaGrange goes to Millsaps, (90% chance on that call, IMHO.)

Pat Coleman and K-Mack postulated HSU getting shipped out of region.

I'll bet that the Cowboy faithful wouldn't mind that.



Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: old ends on November 05, 2008, 06:09:25 PM
Somthing to think about is the fact of where Muhlenberg is located. From or to Allentown 200 miles covers all of NJ, DE, two thirds of PA, CT, NY with a high arc close to Albany swinging to about Elmira then out through Long Island, parts of Ma and MD. I think it is about 200-240 to Albany. To Boston is close to 300 miles. This could cause them to go East.

But again the next two weeks could change a lot of options.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Toby Taff on November 05, 2008, 06:12:00 PM
i would be happy if HSU got shipped out.  not because i don't want them to play the cru again, but i don't want it to be a first round game and that is what i fear.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 05, 2008, 06:16:23 PM
Quote from: old ends on November 05, 2008, 06:09:25 PM
Something to think about is the fact of where Muhlenberg is located. From or to Allentown 200 miles covers all of NJ, DE, two thirds of PA, CT, NY with a high arc close to Albany swinging to about Elmira then out through Long Island, parts of Ma and MD. I think it is about 200-240 to Albany. To Boston is close to 300 miles. This could cause them to go East.

But again the next two weeks could change a lot of options.
Muhlenberg may get moved to the East, if they lose to Moravian.

On the other hand, these are solid top seeds at 10-0...

MUC, NCC, Millsaps, Willamette.

Cortland State at 10-0 will be a solid #1.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 05, 2008, 06:17:09 PM
Quote from: mhb8904 AKA Toby Taff on November 05, 2008, 06:12:00 PM
i would be happy if HSU got shipped out.  not because i don't want them to play the cru again, but i don't want it to be a first round game and that is what i fear.
I would like our chances!

Send us (the proverbial ASC "us") to the West Region.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 05, 2008, 06:22:12 PM
I think that would be great if HSU went West.  I hope it is not to Willamette.   ;)  It would be great to have 2 ASC teams with a chance to advance to the later rounds.  I assume that would send Trinity to UMHB.  Oh no, could Trinity go West and HSU come to UMHB.  >:(
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Toby Taff on November 05, 2008, 06:46:30 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on November 05, 2008, 06:22:12 PM
I think that would be great if HSU went West.  I hope it is not to Willamette.   ;)  It would be great to have 2 ASC teams with a chance to advance to the later rounds.  I assume that would send Trinity to UMHB.  Oh no, could Trinity go West and HSU come to UMHB.  >:(
Bite your tongue, :P
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 05, 2008, 07:00:24 PM
Great Around the Region this week!

One other thing for Trinity and Millsaps would be for DePauw to beat Wabash!

That is an in-region game, against a regionally ranked opponent, for all concerned, especially if 8-2/8-2 DePauw "ekes" into the Final South Region Rankings (the one we never see) with that win over #4 Wabash!  DePauw will get an OWP of 9-0 to add to their value.  The SCAC teams would get an OOWP of 9-0.

DePauw would have losses to Millsaps and Trinity and a win over Wabash!  That is 1-2 as a result over Regionally Ranked Opponents.* 

Conjecture...would a DePauw win over Wabash be enough to vault Trinity into a Pool C bid?



*Regionally Ranked Opponents -- RRO   I saw K-Mack use this abbreviation.  Let's propogate it.   :)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 05, 2008, 07:02:23 PM
Toby Taff, I will always assume the worst case when it comes to the playoff pairings.  Too much history. :)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Toby Taff on November 05, 2008, 07:12:07 PM
I know bill, but we should not speak of the evil ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: crudbdad on November 06, 2008, 10:52:54 AM
I would like to see HSU go west so the ASC can have an opportunity for 1 or 2 teams to advance as far as possible. Depending on the brackets a HSU/UMHB rematch in the semi-finals would bring a whole new level of intensity to the rival.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 06, 2008, 10:28:09 PM
IF HSU gets shipped out of region, then I certainly hope they get a good enough seed to host a game.  In the south (even if they're on the road), I can get to Belton or Jackson.  Not so much to some of the west teams...
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: K-Mack on November 08, 2008, 10:39:28 AM
Josh and Ralph, re: your predictions of HSU at UMHB in the first round: Conference rematches in the first round are to be avoided. 2006 was the exception, not the rule.

You guys also remember the random Hardin-Simmons at Wittenberg matchup?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 08, 2008, 11:18:48 AM
Quote from: K-Mack on November 08, 2008, 10:39:28 AM
Josh and Ralph, re: your predictions of HSU at UMHB in the first round: Conference rematches in the first round are to be avoided. 2006 was the exception, not the rule.

You guys also remember the random Hardin-Simmons at Wittenberg matchup?
I remember a banged-up HSU lost to Wittenberg, which coasted past a "#2" seed Thomas More in Round 2, before running into MUC.  As an ASC fan, I saw that as a wasted opportunity to prove to the D3-nation what Texas football was really like, before Trinity and UMHB made the Stagg Bowl.  ("Everybody" loses in Alliance, except UMHB.   ;) )    2001 Playoff Brackets (http://www.d3football.com/playoffs/01/bracket.htm)

I just cannot figure out how to do the bracket of eight teams if 6 of them are:

Huntingdon/LaGrange
Millsaps
UMHB
HSU
Oxy
Willamette.

Your podcast suggesting a link to the West Coast was interesting.  I wondered if the at-larges might fallout this way.

#1) Millsaps (SCAC Pool A) vs #8 Huntingdon/LaGrange (Pool B) a bus ride

#4 UMHB (ASC Pool A) vs #6 Trinity (SCAC Pool C) a bus ride

#2 Willamette  (NWC Pool A)  vs #7 Redlands (SCIAC Pool C)  Highly seeded  Willamette needs 1-2 plane flights regardless.

#3 Oxy (SCIAC Pool A) vs #5 HSU (ASC Pool C)  A chance to avoid first round conference matchups (Oxy/Redlands and UMHB/HSU).  Oxy-Redlands in the second round would be a bus ride.

Yes it is a very strong bracket, but it gives some new match-ups and tries to minimize plane flights.

We get more pieces in the puzzle today.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 09, 2008, 12:12:01 AM
Quote from: K-Mack on November 08, 2008, 10:39:28 AMJosh and Ralph, re: your predictions of HSU at UMHB in the first round: Conference rematches in the first round are to be avoided. 2006 was the exception, not the rule.

Forgive our cynacism, Keith, but quite frankly, I'll believe it when I see it.

I fully expect HSU and UMHB to meet again in Belton for a first-round playoff game two weeks from today.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 09, 2008, 07:51:18 AM
Josh, I'm with you.  It would be nice to be surprised by something different.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Swish3 on November 09, 2008, 04:47:07 PM
A 5-1 regional record wasn't enough to get CNU into the rankings?  Unfortunately, CNU doesn't really have what I would consider a quality win, so I suppose that's why.  Then again, who has Huntingdon beat????

Ralph....do you see CNU jumping in due to losses by Thomas More, Huntingdon and Trinity?

GO CAPS! 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: AF4 on November 09, 2008, 05:21:37 PM
swish3 said:
"Then again, who has Huntingdon beat?"


i am sure u meant that as a rhetorical question ???
but... so you know (and according to the SLIAC, USA South Athletic Conference, ODAC, and NAIA  web sites)
  .....Maryville ( USA South Athletic Conference 5-4, 4-2 conf), Faulkner (NAIA 2-8), MacMurray (4-6), Greenville (6-4), Eureka (3-6), Blckburn, (2-8) Westminister (4-5), Principia (0-10) by a combined total of 317 - 93,

we lost to HSC ( 8-1 ODAC) 38-34

we now must play a LaGrange (8-1 SLIAC) next wk

clear it up any ? ;D

keep the faith

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Swish3 on November 09, 2008, 05:49:24 PM
Quote from: AF4 on November 09, 2008, 05:21:37 PM
swish3 said:
"Then again, who has Huntingdon beat?"


i am sure u meant that as a rhetorical question ???
but... so you know (and according to the SLIAC, USA South Athletic Conference, ODAC, and NAIA  web sites)
  .....Maryville ( USA South Athletic Conference 5-4, 4-2 conf), Faulkner (NAIA 2-8), MacMurray (4-6), Greenville (6-4), Eureka (3-6), Blckburn, (2-8) Westminister (4-5), Principia (0-10) by a combined total of 317 - 93,

we lost to HSC ( 8-1 ODAC) 38-34

we now must play a LaGrange (8-1 SLIAC) next wk

clear it up any ? ;D

keep the faith



Sorry, my friend, it definitely wasn't rhetorical....I just don't see how beating those teams constitutes a #5 or #6 regional ranking.  I personally don't feel H-SC is as good as some seem to think, either.

GO CAPS!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 09, 2008, 06:05:32 PM
But I think that the South Region Fan Poll will have CNU somewhere around 6th.

After a season of week-to-week competition in the USA South, I think that Huntingdon and LaGrange would have their game up to USA South standards.  ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Swish3 on November 09, 2008, 06:27:34 PM
I'm not sure I followed your response, Ralph.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 09, 2008, 07:15:22 PM
Quote from: swish3 on November 09, 2008, 06:27:34 PM
I'm not sure I followed your response, Ralph.
Sorry Swish!

Two thoughts in that last post...

I think that CNU will be #6 in this week's Fan Poll.

I also think that Huntingdon and LaGrange would get up to USA South speed within a season in the USA South, if the USA South and GSAC merged.  There is better week-to-week competition in the USASouth than in the SLIAC.   :)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Swish3 on November 09, 2008, 08:11:15 PM
I was asking if you thought CNU would jump into the NCAA's regional rankings, given Thomas More, Huntingdon and Trinity lost?  I figured your guess would be better than most.  Thanks!

GO CAPS!

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 09, 2008, 08:19:27 PM
Quote from: swish3 on November 09, 2008, 08:11:15 PM
I was asking if you thought CNU would jump into the NCAA's regional rankings, given Thomas More, Huntingdon and Trinity lost?  I figured your guess would be better than most.  Thanks!

GO CAPS!
Yes, because no one else seems to want it.   :)

I think that the Caps have a chance at hosting a first round game.  We will see in this week's Regional Rankings.

I think that Muhlenberg is #1 seed, unless they can be moved to the East Region because no one is undefeated in the East , if Cortland loses.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: HSC85 on November 09, 2008, 08:25:39 PM
CNU and HSC have a common opponent in NC Wesleyan.  CNU wins by 1 and HSC wins by 11.  Both of the games were at NCW.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Swish3 on November 09, 2008, 08:44:06 PM
True, but that was the first game of the season....NCW is playing a lot better now.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Swish3 on November 09, 2008, 08:54:04 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 09, 2008, 08:19:27 PM
Quote from: swish3 on November 09, 2008, 08:11:15 PM
I was asking if you thought CNU would jump into the NCAA's regional rankings, given Thomas More, Huntingdon and Trinity lost?  I figured your guess would be better than most.  Thanks!

GO CAPS!
Yes, because no one else seems to want it.   :)

I think that the Caps have a chance at hosting a first round game.  We will see in this week's Regional Rankings.

I think that Muhlenberg is #1 seed, unless they can be moved to the East Region because no one is undefeated in the East , if Cortland loses.

That would be nice, but it may be a long shot.  As you said, we'll see what this week's regional rankings look like, since the committee tends to base their seeds on the rankings.

CNU still needs to beat a pretty good Ferrum team, as well.

GO CAPS!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: simplefan on November 10, 2008, 04:06:19 PM
what is the most likely pairing for HSU?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 10, 2008, 04:31:34 PM
Dude.

UMHB.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 10, 2008, 04:42:16 PM
That was simple, Josh.   ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Toby Taff on November 10, 2008, 05:10:33 PM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on November 10, 2008, 04:31:34 PM
Dude.

UMHB.

(melodically)
say, say it isn't so ...(it isn't so u o o)
Say in isn't so . . . (it isn't so u o o)

;D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 10, 2008, 05:20:48 PM
+1 for great Hall and Oates reference, Toby!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: muledaddy on November 11, 2008, 07:15:34 AM


Go East young mules, go East.....for there are great riches to be found...

and many waiting to be pounded...and pounded...and pounded
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 11, 2008, 09:52:02 AM
Quote from: muledaddy on November 11, 2008, 07:15:34 AM


Go East young mules, go East.....for there are great riches to be found...

and many waiting to be pounded...and pounded...and pounded

Afraid of some real competition, eh?   ::) 
Title: NCAA Budget
Post by: Sader4life on November 14, 2008, 03:14:34 PM
The funny thing is that all of these questions debates and arguments about who goes where and who is seeded with who could all be avoided with just a little bit more money from the National Collegiate Athletic Association. I find it rather strange that there are 120 Division I Football Bowl Subdivision teams and 239 Division III Football teams (Yes that's twice as many teams) And only 3.18% of the NCAA's budget is dedicated to ALL Division III sports. Sure we are nowhere near as big as the Florida's LSU's USC's Texas's Ohio State's etc, and sure we will always be the red-headed step child of the NCAA, but you increase that number to 6.36% and all of these problems go away. Number 1 seed hosts Number 8 seed everytime, Number 2 hosts number 7 everytime and so on. None of this Texas Sub-Bracket business and Occidental having to play Willamette because of money rules. And I know it will never happen during our time, but its just something to think about. That way you have a fair playoff bracket and no-one complains about getting cheated etc.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Major Rev on November 15, 2008, 04:34:00 PM
Looking at the scoreboard, all previous bets are off!  NOW what?!  Does Muhlenberg stay in region?  If so, who's on the road?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: crazylegs33 on November 15, 2008, 04:40:22 PM
Do today's losses and the Texas sub-bracket give CNU a shot at a home game?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: @d3jason on November 15, 2008, 04:55:07 PM
Don't see them jumping Wesley or W & J (if they get a Pool C).

Two teams need to be moved

South Region
1. Millsaps 8-0 9-0                                     Beat BSC
2. Muhlenberg 9-0 9-0                               Lost to Moravian
3. Mary Hardin-Baylor 7-0 8-1                    Beating Sul Ross
4. Hardin-Simmons 9-1 9-1                        Season complete
5. Catholic 7-1 8-1                           Lost to Bridgewater
6. Hampden-Sydney 7-1 8-1            Lost to Randolph Macon
7. Washington and Jefferson 7-1 8-1       Beat Waynesburg
8. Wesley 3-1 7-1                                        Beat Galludet
9. Huntingdon 7-1 8-1                       Lost to LaGrange
10. Christopher Newport 6-1 7-1              Beat Ferrum

Thomas More is in (Probably moves to North?)
Is W&J looking better.
Randolph-Macon is in.
How far does Muhlenberg fall or are they moved?
Is Lagrange in? I think so.

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 15, 2008, 06:32:30 PM
First look at what is left.

1)  Millsaps SCAC Pool A
2)  UMHB ASC Pool A
3)  Muhlenberg Pool A
4)  HSU  Pool C
5)  CNU  Pool A
6)  Wesley Pool B
7)  RMC  Pool A
8 ) LaGrange Pool B

Thomas More Pool A goes north.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: @d3jason on November 15, 2008, 06:36:34 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 15, 2008, 06:32:30 PM
First look at what is left.

1)  Millsaps SCAC Pool A
2)  UMHB ASC Pool A
3)  Muhlenberg Pool A
4)  HSU  Pool C
5)  CNU  Pool A
6)  Wesley Pool B
7)  RMC  Pool A
8 ) LaGrange Pool B

Thomas More Pool A goes north.
How's CNU jump Wesley? OWP, etc? W & J still in the mix too....
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 15, 2008, 06:42:11 PM
Quote from: Conrad on November 15, 2008, 06:36:34 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 15, 2008, 06:32:30 PM
First look at what is left.

1)  Millsaps SCAC Pool A
2)  UMHB ASC Pool A
3)  Muhlenberg Pool A
4)  HSU  Pool C
5)  CNU  Pool A Wesley Pool B
6)  Wesley Pool B  CNU Pool A
7)  RMC  Pool A
8 ) LaGrange Pool B

Thomas More Pool A goes north.
How's CNU jump Wesley? OWP, etc? W & J still in the mix too....
Conrad, yep. I think that you are right.  ;)

Wesley gets the nod by virtue of the Salisbury outcome.  Wesley won the Salisbury game. CNU lost to the Seagulls.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 15, 2008, 07:15:53 PM
So now that two loss teams are apparently in play for a pool C slot ... does DePauw stand any chance, or are there simply too many teams ahead of them in the South Region for them to get on the board?  OK, they lost to Millsaps (and Trinity, a loss about as bad right now as Trinity's loss to Centre).  BUT ... they have a huge win today against an undefeated top-five opponent. 

When I look at the other two-loss teams out there, there don't seem to be any who can claim such a quality win.  If they were in the East Region they'd probably have a shot. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CNU85 on November 15, 2008, 07:50:08 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 15, 2008, 06:42:11 PM
Quote from: Conrad on November 15, 2008, 06:36:34 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 15, 2008, 06:32:30 PM
First look at what is left.

1)  Millsaps SCAC Pool A
2)  UMHB ASC Pool A
3)  Muhlenberg Pool A
4)  HSU  Pool C
5)  CNU  Pool A Wesley Pool B
6)  Wesley Pool B  CNU Pool A
7)  RMC  Pool A
8 ) LaGrange Pool B

Thomas More Pool A goes north.
How's CNU jump Wesley? OWP, etc? W & J still in the mix too....
Conrad, yep. I think that you are right.  ;)

Wesley gets the nod by virtue of the Salisbury outcome.  Wesley won the Salisbury game. CNU lost to the Seagulls.

LaGrange at Milsaps
HSU at UMHB
Wesley at Muhlenberg
RMC at CNU

wishful thinking?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 15, 2008, 07:51:27 PM
I don't know if they'll be East, North or South, but I'd bet W&J is in the dance.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CNU85 on November 15, 2008, 07:56:16 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 15, 2008, 07:51:27 PM
I don't know if they'll be East, North or South, but I'd bet W&J is in the dance.

Their record of 9-1 says so. SOW is almost at the bottom of D3. But 8 of those games are conference games and W&J doesn't have a choice but to play those games. The 2 non-conf games were vs teams with a final record of 5-13 (with one more game to play). I could see some 8-2 teams ahead of W&J. Time for W&J fans to say a prayer before hitting the sack and not getting any sleep. Good luck!! Take an Ambien or you might not get a good night's rest.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 15, 2008, 08:06:55 PM
Please go to the Pool C board.

I have updated the third regional rankings.  W&J has started out higher than most of the other Pool C bid teams, and lots of RR teams lost today.


I think that the Presidents have been lucky.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 15, 2008, 08:09:44 PM
Quote from: CNU85 on November 15, 2008, 07:50:08 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 15, 2008, 06:42:11 PM
Quote from: Conrad on November 15, 2008, 06:36:34 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 15, 2008, 06:32:30 PM
First look at what is left.

1)  Millsaps SCAC Pool A
2)  UMHB ASC Pool A
3)  Muhlenberg Pool A
4)  HSU  Pool C
5)  CNU  Pool A Wesley Pool B
6)  Wesley Pool B  CNU Pool A
7)  RMC  Pool A
8 ) LaGrange Pool B

Thomas More Pool A goes north.
How's CNU jump Wesley? OWP, etc? W & J still in the mix too....
Conrad, yep. I think that you are right.  ;)

Wesley gets the nod by virtue of the Salisbury outcome.  Wesley won the Salisbury game. CNU lost to the Seagulls.

LaGrange at Milsaps
HSU at UMHB
Wesley at Muhlenberg
RMC at CNU

wishful thinking?
Yes I think so.

I have this bracket.

#1 Millsaps vs #8 LaGrange
#2 UMHB vs #4 HSU

#3 Muhlenberg vs #7 RMC
#5 Wesley vs #6 CNU

Thomas More goes north to Franklin.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 15, 2008, 08:14:49 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 15, 2008, 08:06:55 PM
Please go to the Pool C board.

I have updated the third regional rankings.  W&J has started out higher than most of the other Pool C bid teams, and lots of RR teams lost today.


I think that the Presidents have been lucky.
They have been lucky.  And they did what a whole bunch of people who had control of their own destiny did not do--win impressively today.  And the door came off the hinges for the rest of the Pool this afternoon.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CNU85 on November 15, 2008, 08:20:45 PM
That looks better Ralph. But a CNU game on the road means I can't convince my wife to let me hit the road on the weekend of our anniversary. A home game means I might be able to sneak away for 4 hours - for a fee!! :D :D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 15, 2008, 08:29:39 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 15, 2008, 08:09:44 PM
Yes I think so.

I have this bracket.

#1 Millsaps vs #8 LaGrange
#2 UMHB vs #4 HSU

#3 Muhlenberg vs #7 RMC
#5 Wesley vs #6 CNU

Thomas More goes north to Franklin.


HSU lost to regionally-ranked UMHB.
Muhlenberg lost to unranked Moravian.

I put HSU 3, Muhlenberg 4, but it doesn't change who plays who (unless HSU has to face Muhenberg in a future round).
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 15, 2008, 08:45:09 PM
I just didn't have the "guts" (temerity to use an more refined word) to imagine the committee dropping Muhlenberg that far.

I would like to see HSU at #3 to bring the Regional Finals to the Deep South. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: @d3jason on November 15, 2008, 10:07:39 PM
Muhenlenberg should drop more than one IMHO and probably have to go on the road.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 15, 2008, 10:18:08 PM
Okay, guys, IF W&J gets in the dance and is in the South bracket, the Presidents will be no lower than 5th, possibly 4th with the results of today's games.

The last public regional rankings have W&J 7th, behind Catholic & HSC, both of whom lost.  And, depending on how much weight the committee would give to the Mules' last game loss, the Presidents could move to fourth.

And, IF in the South bracket and fourth or fifth, the Presidents would host a first-round game, thanks to the Texas sub-regional....

Just thought I'd throw that out there.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 15, 2008, 10:28:36 PM
Over on my picks for the Pool C, I wondered who from the South might be sent East.

W&J, or Muhlenberg or even Wesley.  Wesley is such at short trip for CNU and their game was canceled in the first week.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 16, 2008, 10:17:24 AM
And here's another couple little ditties:

Pat (and crew) appear to agree about W&J being in, and in the South, and hosting.

Somebody asked about moving Muhlenberg east instead of Wesley.
IF that happens, W&J would likely be the #4 and hosting in first round regardless of the Texans.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: wesleydad on November 16, 2008, 10:37:57 AM
just wondering, since all the teams that are being mentioned for home games in the south have at least one loss, shouldnt wesley be ahead of all of them since they were ranked higher at the beginning of the season.  the dominoes should all be back in line again with wesley ahead of both muhlenburg and w&j.  i know that their lack of region games hurts and rnkings dont matter, but just a thought.

i hope wesley does not get moved to the east because i think they are a strong contender to win the south region.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 16, 2008, 10:42:36 AM
It's all about the selection criteria, wesleydad.  Wesley's opponents' winning percentage (OWP) is very poor and they don't have a win against a regionally-ranked opponent.  Muhlenberg has a much better OWP.  W&J is about the same, I haven't done the breakdowns enough to slot W&J vs Wesley.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: wesleydad on November 16, 2008, 10:53:21 AM
thanks, ron, i figured as much.  holding out hope for a least one home game.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 16, 2008, 03:20:33 PM
Wesley / Mules .

second week gets two flights!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 16, 2008, 03:23:33 PM
Brackets:

http://www.d3boards.com/playoffs/footballbracket2008.pdf
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 16, 2008, 03:37:26 PM
D3Football.com's Selection Show Special is broadcasting:

http://www.d3football.com/notables/2008/01/14/1571/post-selection-selection-show.html

or directly into Windows Media Player:

http://win.1.c2.audiovideoweb.com/1c2winlive6881
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 16, 2008, 03:41:00 PM
surprising that they put 2,3 and 4 on same side of bracket giving Millsaps the easiest route to the the south final
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Toby Taff on November 16, 2008, 04:08:41 PM
Welcomw to the wonderful world of the Texas Sub-Bracket
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: drinkxs.com on November 16, 2008, 04:09:26 PM
I agree Wesly Fan, seems like out side the bracket is loaded.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: drinkxs.com on November 16, 2008, 04:10:18 PM
our side
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Toby Taff on November 16, 2008, 04:37:30 PM
but you have to love it when, if all things work out perfectly, the #2 seed has to beat a 3, 4, and 1 to get out of the bracket and two 1s to win it all
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: golden_dome on November 16, 2008, 04:48:16 PM
I don't have a team involved this year, but every year is more frustrating with the NCAA. I understand the rules well, but the fact that travel plays such a huge role completely disrespects the efforts of these players and the integrity of the postseason in my opinion. The ASC almost always gets the short end of it.

#6 Muhlenberg, #8 UMHB, #9 Wesley  and #11 Hardin-Simmons are in the same subbracket. Not to mention two ASC teams playing in the first round, both of which are capable of going deep into the tournament.

I've been banging the Millsaps drum all year, but they face a LaGrange team they will beat by 50 or more, which they've earned, but  followed by fringe Top 25 teams in Washington & Jefferson or Christopher Newport in the second round, who they also will easily outmatch.

Obviously nothing Millsaps has done wrong here, I'm just using them as an example. I know how good they are and believe me, they don't need any help. It would just be nice in this part of the country, and particularly in regards to the ASC,  to see actual performance on the field take precedence over travel for once.

I know you can't fly teams all over the country, but you can at least use the seeding in each region, which also is subject to scrutiny. Any system that has Wesley a #7 seed, barely ahead of LaGrange, is flawed in my opinion. We've gotten so used to this in the South, and in the West a lot of times, that it doesn't raise eyebrows anymore.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Toby Taff on November 16, 2008, 05:00:42 PM
we need a rich d3 benefactor that will pay for plane tickets.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 16, 2008, 05:01:23 PM
It looks like any way the bracket goes, the second week gets two flights
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: @d3jason on November 16, 2008, 05:06:38 PM
Quote from: mhb8904 AKA Toby Taff on November 16, 2008, 05:00:42 PM
we need a rich d3 benefactor that will pay for plane tickets.
Too bad that Pickens guy is giving all his money to Oklahoma State.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Jeremybozz on November 16, 2008, 05:07:49 PM
 There is a reason they play the games. Lets remember what happened yesterday before we start writing off some of the teams.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Toby Taff on November 16, 2008, 05:18:39 PM
 No one's writing anyone off, just lamenting getting jobbed, again. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: TrickyTroy on November 16, 2008, 05:38:21 PM
Its going to be a Millsap vs ASC final. Millsap, MHB, and HSU is way head of the rest of the pack(sorry mules should of went north or east :P) Just wish they put HSU and MHB on oppisite sides of the bracket so we can start having a all-texas final like usual.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 16, 2008, 05:41:57 PM
Quote from: TrickyTroy on November 16, 2008, 05:38:21 PM
Its going to be a Millsap vs ASC final. Millsap, MHB, and HSU is way head of the rest of the pack(sorry mules should of went north or east :P) Just wish they put HSU and MHB on oppisite sides of the bracket so we can start having a all-texas final like usual.

It's obvious you haven't been paying attention for a few years TrickyTroy. I hope all the teams over look Wesley
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on November 16, 2008, 05:45:12 PM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on November 16, 2008, 05:41:57 PM
It's obvious you haven't been paying attention for a few years TrickyTroy. I hope all the teams over look Wesley

Yep, we don't exist.   Keep thinking that way..... :D

-Ski


Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 16, 2008, 05:48:37 PM
I actually like Wesley's draw.  I think that the Wolverines have a great bracket.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: TrickyTroy on November 16, 2008, 05:50:17 PM
Wesley will lose to the mules ::), but wesley fans can keep saying their prayers to make it to texas. It should be a fun flight to texas, but a sad flight back. :D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: LGpanthers on November 16, 2008, 05:53:06 PM
Now let me make this clear before I go any further I do not expect LG to beat millsap. Though I do expect it to be closer than many might expect such as the person who said by 50 or more. LaGrange has come a long way in three years and I think it is a great thing that they have made the playoffs that quickly! There is plenty of talent on defense along the line, linebackers, and secondary. I believe they will be able to make it closer than some expect do to the ability to cover as they do have the 7th ranked pass defense in the country. Nobody believed they would beat anybody but principia and Blackburn this year. Then they beat maryville easily and they did what ever they wanted against huntingdon just didnt capatilize to make the score worse. They had 420 yards on them and held them to 220 and that included a LC fumble in the endzone and and interception at the 15 of HC. They believe and it will show!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 16, 2008, 05:55:38 PM
Quote from: TrickyTroy on November 16, 2008, 05:50:17 PM
Wesley will lose to the mules ::), but wesley fans can keep saying their prayers to make it to texas. It should be a fun flight to texas, but a sad flight back. :D
I think that Wesley matches up well with Muhlenberg.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: TrickyTroy on November 16, 2008, 05:57:50 PM
Happy for Lagrange, they did a amazing job ;), but they still have a way to go before they can no longer be underdogs, Wesley was the same way, and they moved to honesly say they have a shot at being the best in the south every year now. The south, however, has been controled for a long time by texas teams. :P
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on November 16, 2008, 05:58:27 PM
Quote from: TrickyTroy on November 16, 2008, 05:50:17 PM
Wesley will lose to the mules ::), but wesley fans can keep saying their prayers to make it to texas. It should be a fun flight to texas, but a sad flight back. :D

Trash talking already and we haven't even gotten into the first round.  I let fate talk before I do..... ;)

-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: TrickyTroy on November 16, 2008, 06:02:20 PM
I do to Ralph, but i like the mules to win because Wesley can possible challange the Texas teams (only if the bring their A game) plus I would luv to say texas football just whopped some (another name for a mule).
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on November 16, 2008, 06:02:56 PM
Quote from: TrickyTroy on November 16, 2008, 05:57:50 PM
Happy for Lagrange, they did a amazing job ;), but they still have a way to go before they can no longer be underdogs, Wesley was the same way, and they moved to honesly say they have a shot at being the best in the south every year now. The south, however, has been controled for a long time by texas teams. :P

One year is indeed a long time.  Wesley beat MHB two years running before losing last year to them.  I wouldn't consider that a trend just yet.  

-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 16, 2008, 06:06:57 PM
Quote from: TrickyTroy on November 16, 2008, 06:02:20 PM
I do to Ralph, but i like the mules to win because Wesley can possible challange the Texas teams (only if the bring their A game) plus I would luv to say texas football just whopped some (another name for a mule).
In my best provincial Texas mode, it would be nice to put a big whompin' on Muhlenberg.

I always like to beat those traditional D3 powers like Muhlenberg and W&J.   :)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: TrickyTroy on November 16, 2008, 06:20:02 PM
1998- Trinity(tx) South Champs beat Lyco
1999- Tinity South Champs beat HSU
2000- HSU south Champs beat Trinity
2001-BridgeWater south champs beat Trinity
2002- Trinity South champs beat bridgewater
2003- Bridgewater south champs beat lyco
2004-MHB south champs beat w+J
2005- Wesley south champs beat W+J
2006- Wesley South champs beat MHB
Texas teams been in south championship game 7 times in9 years won it 5 times in 9 years been to stagg bowl 2 times in 7 years Wesley 2 times in 9 years made it to south final and 2 times win it in 9 years
Odds are in the texas team favor
That was also a complement for wesley saying they can be consider one of the best year in year out
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: TrickyTroy on November 16, 2008, 06:22:31 PM
I just want asc  to beat MT. Union again, not many conferences can say that
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 16, 2008, 06:24:21 PM
2007 -- UMHB beat Trinity, NCWC ( which had beaten W&J) and then Wesley (which had beaten Hampden-Sydney and Muhlenberg) to go to the Semis at UWW.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 16, 2008, 06:24:55 PM
Quote from: TrickyTroy on November 16, 2008, 06:22:31 PM
I just want ASC  to beat MT. Union again, not many conferences can say that
That will be in the Stagg if it happens!   :)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: TrickyTroy on November 16, 2008, 06:28:51 PM
If ASC makes to the Stagg bowl I'm there(hope its HSU)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: golden_dome on November 16, 2008, 07:11:24 PM
Quote from: LGpanthers on November 16, 2008, 05:53:06 PM
Now let me make this clear before I go any further I do not expect LG to beat millsap. Though I do expect it to be closer than many might expect such as the person who said by 50 or more. LaGrange has come a long way in three years and I think it is a great thing that they have made the playoffs that quickly!

I hope they do play well, it's always fun seeing underdogs challenge in the playoffs. It's just hard to believe a program that has gone 0-20 the last two years improved that much in one year. It's easier to believe their improvement had more to do with joining a weak football league in the SLIAC. MS College beat them 50-7 last season and this year's Millsaps team is better than that team was.

I think LaGrange will eventually have a great team due to the fact Georgia puts out so much talent every year, but I'm not sure they've made that jump from 0-10 to serious contender in one year. Who knows, Georgia is a hotbed for football talent, and the great thing about the playoffs is the opportunity to prove yourself.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 16, 2008, 07:32:11 PM
I think that LaGrange had two factors working for it.

1)  It is the third year of the program.  By the end of the season, the core of the team had played 30 games.  Those are veteran players by now.

2)  The SLIAC is a beatable conference.  The only competition that they faced was Huntingdon, in their 30th game.  Thirty games into the career is different from 21 or 22.  Making the playoffs as a Pool B is another advantage.

This raises the profile of D3 in the Deep South.  BSC will have a good program.

This will be fun in the future!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: LGpanthers on November 16, 2008, 07:35:06 PM
It is fun and by no means am I saying we are on the same level as the national powerhouses yet. I agree that it somewhat was due to joining a weak conference but when presented you cant pass it up in the case of huntingdon and LG. There also happens to be other things that have helped make a difference such as having a returning quarterback for the first time and not having to play a freshman quaterback. LG does have some decent wins against HC and Maryville and a 5 point loss to the 12th ranked NAIA shorter college. Maryville who beat us 21-3 last year we beat this year 38-14 and that played CNU and only lost 38-31. I dont think it is always great to look at scores but that sure is encouraging. HC beat us 43-0 last year this year we beat them 27-17 and it could have been worse. We moved the ball up and down the field on them and put up 420 yards of offense. Last year shorter wasnt even ranked they beat us 38-12 this and this year it was 28-23 and we threw an interception in the endzone at the end of the game from the 17 yard line. These statistics just show that it wasnt only the weak conference that caused they great turnaround rather it was a team that believes in themselves and works hard because they know nobody believes in them yet! I do think this is just a great oppurtunity to see where we are it will be fun who knows maybe a miracle can happen.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: wesleydad on November 16, 2008, 08:27:45 PM
what a loaded bracket, with 4 of the top 12 teams in the same half.  i agree with ralph, i like the matchups for wesley.  they are strong against the run and the teams in their half like to run.  wesley is very balanced on offense so they will give any team trouble.  add the threat of beavers on special teams and they have to be one of the favorites, certainly the best 7 seed in the playoffs.  i will save my prediction for the game with muhlenburg for later.  will have plenty of fun reading some posters comments to see how over the top they get with their predictions.  it is too bad that they could not split up umhb and hsu so that they could meet in the second or third round depending on how they had set up the bracket.  seems to be more than the usual flights for this bracket although wesley did fly to umhb 3 years ago and beat them.  let the fun begin.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 16, 2008, 09:02:53 PM
While I wish the AA didn't have the "geographic proximity" rule, they do.

That having been said, let's remember that THIS year's "Millsaps" bracket matches up #2 UMHB & #3 HSU in the first round.  Naturally, those two, with wins, would meet in the second round.

Being seeded #2 & #3, they could NOT meet in the Region Finals.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: The Forgotten Man on November 16, 2008, 09:23:52 PM
Quote from: Chris Brooks on November 16, 2008, 04:48:16 PM
...
I've been banging the Millsaps drum all year, but they face a LaGrange team they will beat by 50 or more...

Let's see now, I guess that puts you in with the folks who  thought LC would lose to Maryville, Greenville, Westminster, and Huntingdon.  Yes, and they were wrong.

Now, I'm not predicting the outcome of the game--LC will need more than a few lucky breaks to keep up with the Majors.  But trashing LaGrange like that is wrong.

Let's hope it had more to do with your frustration with the NCAA than any critical analysis on your part. ;)

As Ralph has indicated, LC is now a team of third year varsity players with three years of college level weight training (you should see the great facility they have) and is no longer the youthful team of freshmen and sophomores of last year. Should be interesting watching them next year when the core of the team will have played varsity football for 35+ games before the season starts.

To paraphrase a stock prospectus, past year's performance is not  a reliable indicator of future success. If you had seen 29 of the past 30 games as I have you would be amazed at the improvement shown this year and especially this week. Seeing is believing. :)

Good luck to all of the south region teams playing--especially poor Randolph Macon who gets to challenge MUC! The better these teams do, the better the chances for seeing the birth of more D3 programs in the south, especially in Georgia (we are the only program in the state).
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 16, 2008, 09:35:39 PM
My framework for LaGrange is that LaGrange has not played a "Millsaps" like we see this year.

This Millsaps is a really great team.  I am already thinking about where they fit in "my top10 all-time teams in the South".  Click here. (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=5306.0)

Millsaps has been here.  UMHB had to get the Trinity monkey off its back.  This is the year that LaGrange sees what it needs to do to get to the next level, as seniors.

If you guys can knock them off, I think that the rest of the South will appreciate it, tho'.  ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 16, 2008, 09:41:13 PM
Let's let them win a game or two in the playoffs before we go that far, Ralph....   :)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: The Forgotten Man on November 16, 2008, 10:03:57 PM
Don't get me wrong. Our boys understand both how far they've come and how far they have yet to go. They were thrilled  ;D with the invitation to the playoffs and never had the presumptuousness to assume they deserved a bid. To quote my son, "We've come a long way Dad; if the season ends today, it's still been a great season, but if we get a bid that is just icing on the cake."

Many, many things will have to go their way to keep up with the Majors.  The only prediction I'm making is that they won't lay over and die like a previous poster suggested. They have worked too hard to just do that.

These boys young men and their coaches are building a program that I hope will do much to inspire other schools in Georgia, Alabama, and Florida to do the same.

Wouldn't it be great if some day the south region consisted solely of schools in the south?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: @d3jason on November 16, 2008, 10:31:59 PM
I am wondering if Ralph has the had the "Barbed-Wired-And-Mesquite" trophy made up yet for the winner of the "Texas Sub bracket."

And if so what does it look like?

To be honest, LaGrange's big win really suprised me. They lost to Huntingdon 43-0 last season and though I thought they'd give the Hawks a game I never expected them to dominate. But according to box score, they appeared to do just that. I am anxious to watch Huntingdon's football show online tomorrow night and get my first "look" at them.

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 16, 2008, 10:42:40 PM
Quote from: Conrad on November 16, 2008, 10:31:59 PM
I am wondering if Ralph has the had the "Barbed-Wired-And-Mesquite" trophy made up yet for the winner of the "Texas Sub bracket."

And if so what does it look like?

To be honest, LaGrange's big win really suprised me. They lost to Huntingdon 43-0 last season and though I thought they'd give the Hawks a game I never expected them to dominate. But according to box score, they appeared to do just that. I am anxious to watch Huntingdon's football show online tomorrow night and get my first "look" at them.

The best artist that I have found in this part of the country is here (http://www.hartleywoodcraft.com/?cat=9).  He does some beautiful work.   ;)

Please scroll down to see the barbed wire in the rough timber.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: frank_ezelle on November 16, 2008, 10:42:59 PM
In 2005 Millsaps was 2-7 and only 4 points away from a winless season.  In 2006 they won their last 7 games of the season, were undefeated in the SCAC, and they made the NCAA Playoffs.  No one should know better than Millsaps just how much a team can improve in one year.

There is a huge similarity between the 2006 Millsaps team and this year's LaGrange team in that both had to win a huge game on the last Saturday of the regular season and then turn around and prepare for an away game the following Saturday.  It's hard to properly prepare in such a situation, but Millsaps went to Pittsburgh and played to a 0-0 halftime tie before simply wearing out in the second half.  If Millsaps had had the depth in 2006 that LaGrange has now, I think they would have won that playoff game.

I fully expect LaGrange to be a tough playoff team this Saturday and I would expect LaGrange to win if Millsaps plays like they did Saturday against Birmingham Southern (7 turnovers, 100+ yards in penalties).  Birmingham Southern is the only common opponent of these two teams with LaGrange beating them 34-31 and Millsaps beating them 31-14 yesterday--those scores seem fairly competitive to me.

Like everyone else except a handful of LaGrange faithful, I believe Millsaps is a solid favorite to win this opening round.  But being a Millsaps fan, I've seen some strange things happen on our Harper Davis field like the 2006 Millsaps 34-12 win over Trinity and the 2007 15-lateral play by Trinity.  I expect Millsaps to need their "A" game this Saturday and I think they'll have their "A" game after yesterday's wake up call.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: golden_dome on November 16, 2008, 10:50:11 PM
Quote from: The Forgotten Man on November 16, 2008, 09:23:52 PM
Quote from: Chris Brooks on November 16, 2008, 04:48:16 PM
...
I've been banging the Millsaps drum all year, but they face a LaGrange team they will beat by 50 or more...

Let's see now, I guess that puts you in with the folks who  thought LC would lose to Maryville, Greenville, Westminster, and Huntingdon.  Yes, and they were wrong.

Now, I'm not predicting the outcome of the game--LC will need more than a few lucky breaks to keep up with the Majors.  But trashing LaGrange like that is wrong.

That comment was not just sizing up this year's LaGrange team but came from the last couple years when the south's top seed has usually blown out the lower seeded teams. Last season #4 UMHB beat #16 Trinity 52-23, then beat NC Wesleyan 64-0 the following week.

Congrats to LaGrange for getting into the playoffs, it is something to be proud of. I knew they were picking up wins this year but none of those four teams you mentioned had great years either. Maryville, Greensboro and Westminster all were about .500 without any wins over a quality opponent. Huntingdon was 8-2 but they didn't beat anyone either.

I hope to see LC come out and be competitive, but it's a big jump from the SLIAC to face a #4 ranked team. On the other hand it's a great opportunity to earn respect, which is the same thing teams like UMHB had to do in the playoffs. Geting into the playoffs is the first hurdle, now we'll see how they stack up.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: The Forgotten Man on November 16, 2008, 11:08:27 PM
Quote from: frank_ezelle on November 16, 2008, 10:42:59 PM
...
Like everyone else except a handful of LaGrange faithful, I believe Millsaps is a solid favorite to win this opening round.  But being a Millsaps fan, I've seen some strange things happen on our Harper Davis field like the 2006 Millsaps 34-12 win over Trinity and the 2007 15-lateral play by Trinity.  I expect Millsaps to need their "A" game this Saturday and I think they'll have their "A" game after yesterday's wake up call.

Even the LaGrange faithful are realists and recognize we are the definite underdog in this matchup; we're just hopeful realists.  ;) Looking forward to the game and hoping we give you a good one.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: @d3jason on November 16, 2008, 11:10:30 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 16, 2008, 10:42:40 PM
Quote from: Conrad on November 16, 2008, 10:31:59 PM
I am wondering if Ralph has the had the "Barbed-Wired-And-Mesquite" trophy made up yet for the winner of the "Texas Sub bracket."

And if so what does it look like?

To be honest, LaGrange's big win really suprised me. They lost to Huntingdon 43-0 last season and though I thought they'd give the Hawks a game I never expected them to dominate. But according to box score, they appeared to do just that. I am anxious to watch Huntingdon's football show online tomorrow night and get my first "look" at them.

The best artist that I have found in this part of the country is here (http://www.hartleywoodcraft.com/?cat=9).  He does some beautiful work.   ;)

Please scroll down to see the barbed wire in the rough timber.

That guy does nice work. I may have an idea for a Xmas present for my mother now, Thanks!

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: LGpanthers on November 16, 2008, 11:12:26 PM
About the millsap team from what I have found online it seems that have a very good QB and 2 or 3 very good WR. Also from looking at the box score they pass bout 35 to 40 times a game and run bout 20 to 25. Can any body confirm what they have? Also what are there strengths on defense? I really hope to make it to the game in jackson but I will first have to get out of a Camping class trip only a 1 hour class guys to help my GPA since I am a Biology major. I can second what forgotten man has said from talking to some of the guys they are ready to see what they can do against a big time team and hopefully gain respect for this up and coming program!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: LGpanthers on November 16, 2008, 11:13:14 PM
Quote from: LGpanthers on November 16, 2008, 11:12:26 PM
About the millsap team from what I have found online it seems that they have a very good QB and 2 or 3 very good WR. Also from looking at the box score they pass bout 35 to 40 times a game and run bout 20 to 25. Can any body confirm what they have? Also what are there strengths on defense? I really hope to make it to the game in jackson but I will first have to get out of a Camping class trip only a 1 hour class guys to help my GPA since I am a Biology major. I can second what forgotten man has said from talking to some of the guys they are ready to see what they can do against a big time team and hopefully gain respect for this up and coming program!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 16, 2008, 11:13:26 PM
Quote from: The Forgotten Man on November 16, 2008, 11:08:27 PM
Quote from: frank_ezelle on November 16, 2008, 10:42:59 PM
...
Like everyone else except a handful of LaGrange faithful, I believe Millsaps is a solid favorite to win this opening round.  But being a Millsaps fan, I've seen some strange things happen on our Harper Davis field like the 2006 Millsaps 34-12 win over Trinity and the 2007 15-lateral play by Trinity.  I expect Millsaps to need their "A" game this Saturday and I think they'll have their "A" game after yesterday's wake up call.

Even the LaGrange faithful are realists and recognize we are the definite underdog in this matchup; we're just hopeful realists.  ;) Looking forward to the game and hoping we give you a good one.

The Forgotten Man

Nothing wrong with that.. Wesley was a big underdog a few years back and we Wesley fans were the one's who believed. That's what faithful fans do..
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 16, 2008, 11:58:20 PM
Quote from: Conrad on November 16, 2008, 11:10:30 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 16, 2008, 10:42:40 PM
Quote from: Conrad on November 16, 2008, 10:31:59 PM
I am wondering if Ralph has the had the "Barbed-Wired-And-Mesquite" trophy made up yet for the winner of the "Texas Sub bracket."

And if so what does it look like?

To be honest, LaGrange's big win really suprised me. They lost to Huntingdon 43-0 last season and though I thought they'd give the Hawks a game I never expected them to dominate. But according to box score, they appeared to do just that. I am anxious to watch Huntingdon's football show online tomorrow night and get my first "look" at them.

The best artist that I have found in this part of the country is here (http://www.hartleywoodcraft.com/?cat=9).  He does some beautiful work.   ;)

Please scroll down to see the barbed wire in the rough timber.

That guy does nice work. I may have an idea for a Xmas present for my mother now, Thanks!
Hmmmm... I just hope that Wesley doesn't walk away with the Barbed Wire and Mesquite this year!   :-\
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Toby Taff on November 17, 2008, 07:59:25 AM
I think we should make a virtual barbed wire and mesquite and award it to the winner of the  Texas sub-Bracket this year by sending notification to the schools SID.  Maybe set up a web-site that honors the winners of the Texas Sub-Bracket by recounting the history of the bracket and having a year by year retelling of the champions season.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Toby Taff on November 17, 2008, 08:41:27 AM
I have decided to do it.  I have time to build it, so I registered a web address, texassubbracket.com.  Anyone willing to help out let me know. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: exmajor on November 17, 2008, 09:54:13 AM
Quote from: LGpanthers on November 16, 2008, 11:12:26 PM
About the millsap team from what I have found online it seems that have a very good QB and 2 or 3 very good WR. Also from looking at the box score they pass bout 35 to 40 times a game and run bout 20 to 25. Can any body confirm what they have? Also what are there strengths on defense? I really hope to make it to the game in jackson but I will first have to get out of a Camping class trip only a 1 hour class guys to help my GPA since I am a Biology major. I can second what forgotten man has said from talking to some of the guys they are ready to see what they can do against a big time team and hopefully gain respect for this up and coming program!

LG, come over to the SCAC board and we can fill you in on Millsaps.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: @d3jason on November 17, 2008, 12:32:04 PM
Quote from: mhb8904 AKA Toby Taff on November 17, 2008, 08:41:27 AM
I have decided to do it.  I have time to build it, so I registered a web address, texassubbracket.com.  Anyone willing to help out let me know. 

Ralph--
Look what you started now..... :D :D :D :D

As far as Wesley winning the trophy, I am just hoping that they can get by The Mules. I've been to Florida, Ohio, New York, Maryland just this year. Another trip to Texas like in 2005 would be great. Leaving on Thanksgiving night, not so good. (Wife does not like that and my three-year is convinced she's going to Texas with me if Wesley pulls it off.)

It would great to meet some of the posters in either Belton or Abliene. UMHB had the best press box food I ever had last time... Chicken and Steak Fajitas.


Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: AJK on November 17, 2008, 04:09:34 PM
 ??? GOT BEAVERS? THEY DO. Larry Beavers that is. Good luck to the South Region teams who have to go threw this special teams nightmare of trying to figure out,  should we kick to him or pouch it to the 40 yard line?
   Talk about no respect. Wesley gets the 7th seed? Get your head out of the sand. Lets not forget that only 2 teams (MU and UW) have more wins than Wesley in the last 4 years.   Sorry Mules, you got the short end of that stick. Last years 21- 38 loss at Wesley is coming to your house only with a better team than last year.     Big reason why is QB McSweeny, a huge upgrade from last year and has only played 1 or 2 4th quarters this year. One of them was the 1st game of the season which he didnt start, which is there only loss. 
   Bottom line is that Wesley should have been a 2,3 or 4 seed. But the South Region will find that out soon enough.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 17, 2008, 04:16:05 PM
This year is the only one that really matters to seedings. If you're so hacked off, go out and prove it, I guess.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: The Forgotten Man on November 17, 2008, 04:18:24 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 17, 2008, 04:16:05 PM
This year is the only one that really matters to seedings. If you're so hacked off, go out and prove it, I guess.

Thanks. I was trying to think of a tactful way to say that; now I don't have to.   :)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 17, 2008, 04:23:45 PM
Quote from: The Forgotten Man on November 17, 2008, 04:18:24 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 17, 2008, 04:16:05 PM
This year is the only one that really matters to seedings. If you're so hacked off, go out and prove it, I guess.

Thanks. I was trying to think of a tactful way to say that; now I don't have to.   :)

Sounds like this guy is writing checks!! 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: The Forgotten Man on November 17, 2008, 04:26:34 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 17, 2008, 04:23:45 PM
Sounds like this guy is writing checks!! 

If you can get the Majors to turn the ball over 7 times again this weekend, I'd have to think about writing one.  ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: exmajor on November 17, 2008, 04:32:28 PM
Quote from: The Forgotten Man on November 17, 2008, 04:26:34 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 17, 2008, 04:23:45 PM
Sounds like this guy is writing checks!! 

If you can get the Majors to turn the ball over 7 times again this weekend, I'd have to think about writing one.  ;)

I don't see that happening this week.  I am sure the wake-up call will resound in practice this week, Coach Dubose is too good for it not to and these guys have come too far.  The BS-C game last week may be exactly what the doctor ordered!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 17, 2008, 04:44:01 PM
ex-major,

that was a real shock to see that turnover number.  I think you're right -wake up call.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: exmajor on November 17, 2008, 04:50:46 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 17, 2008, 04:44:01 PM
ex-major,

that was a real shock to see that turnover number.  I think you're right -wake up call.

We shall see, but if it was a wake-up call and the Majors bring their "A" game, all bias aside, I would not want any part of them as an opposing coach or player . . . ok, some bias I guess  ;D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: The Forgotten Man on November 17, 2008, 06:02:16 PM
Quote from: exmajor on November 17, 2008, 04:32:28 PM
Quote from: The Forgotten Man on November 17, 2008, 04:26:34 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 17, 2008, 04:23:45 PM
Sounds like this guy is writing checks!! 

If you can get the Majors to turn the ball over 7 times again this weekend, I'd have to think about writing one.  ;)

I don't see that happening this week.  I am sure the wake-up call will resound in practice this week, Coach Dubose is too good for it not to and these guys have come too far.  The BS-C game last week may be exactly what the doctor ordered!

I really don't see it happening either, but a man can dream can't he? When I went and looked at the MC vs BSC stats, I shuddered thinking about how that was the last thing LaGrange needed. We'd rather you hadn't recieved the wake-up call just yet.  ::)

Seriously, your guys seem like a great football time team and I'm certain our guys are pleased to just have the opportunity to see how well they can do against such a powerhouse.

Maybe I'll see you in Jackson!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: wesleydad on November 17, 2008, 06:13:34 PM
AJk, not really sure where you get all your comments from about the QB position at wesley.  make sure that the stats back up the comment.  i am not sure how your comment of a huge upgrade can be backed up.  this year, mcsweeney, 9 games 1684 yards for 187 a game.  schatz had 13 games for 2787 yards, 214 a game.  there is no doubt that last years schedule was much tougher than this years and schatz sat most of the 4th quarters last year so that is a wash.  it seems that you have a problem with how schatz played QB last year from several of your posts.  if you are going to come on here with a vendetta, make sure you can support it with facts, not just some unfounded opinion.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: exmajor on November 17, 2008, 06:14:32 PM
Quote from: The Forgotten Man on November 17, 2008, 06:02:16 PM
Quote from: exmajor on November 17, 2008, 04:32:28 PM
Quote from: The Forgotten Man on November 17, 2008, 04:26:34 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 17, 2008, 04:23:45 PM
Sounds like this guy is writing checks!! 

If you can get the Majors to turn the ball over 7 times again this weekend, I'd have to think about writing one.  ;)

I don't see that happening this week.  I am sure the wake-up call will resound in practice this week, Coach Dubose is too good for it not to and these guys have come too far.  The BS-C game last week may be exactly what the doctor ordered!

I really don't see it happening either, but a man can dream can't he? When I went and looked at the MC vs BSC stats, I shuddered thinking about how that was the last thing LaGrange needed. We'd rather you hadn't recieved the wake-up call just yet.  ::)

Seriously, your guys seem like a great football time and I'm certain our guys are pleased to just see how well they can do against such a powerhouse.

Maybe I'll see you in Jackson!

Millsaps started its turnaround 3 seasons ago when they lost three of their first four games, but won all their conference games to get the automatic bid.  That was their first playoff appearance in over two decades and they just wore down after playing Carnegie Mellon to a scoreless tie at the half.  

Last year the team was a one point loss and a "miracle" away from two playoff bids in a row.  

All of this to say they are not a "powerhouse" yet and still have a lot to prove on the national level.  This is an experienced, strong and fast team on both sides of the ball, with a senior QB who should be in the running for player of the year.  I think Coach Dubose stepped into the head coaching role with the challenge of making this team a "powerhouse" on the national level and he has the chance to continue that climb with a strong showing in the playoffs this year.

However, 7 turnovers is not the way to get that done, it worked ok against BS-C, but not against La Grange I suspect.  Should be a good one, have to watch it online this week, but will be there in spirit!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 17, 2008, 06:28:20 PM
exmajor

The way the season started and finished last year for Millsaps had to be gut wrenching... Kinda like falling out of a tree , survivng the fall and then having the tree fall on you...
So maybe just a little poetic justice for your team.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: exmajor on November 17, 2008, 06:36:57 PM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on November 17, 2008, 06:28:20 PM
exmajor

The way the season started and finished last year for Millsaps had to be gut wrenching... Kinda like falling out of a tree , survivng the fall and then having the tree fall on you...
So maybe just a little poetic justice for your team.

That is one way to look at it  :D, or on the positive side, it has motivated the team for this season.  The first loss last season was the result of a strategy going in and sticking to it.  The starters were pulled after one half and a comfortable lead and not put back in the game when things started falling apart . . . this strategy manifested itself after Millsaps saw the depth they needed to be competitive in their playoff loss the season before.  So, maybe all the pieces will be lined up this year.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: AJK on November 17, 2008, 07:53:18 PM
 Wesleydad I'm not trying to dis Schatz in any way. I think any QB that wins 11 d3 games in a season is got to be good. Schatz has a huge arm thats for sure, but not as accurate as McSweeny. You need to be able to hit your 5 and 10 yard passes with a high percentage and that is what McSweeny does very well. Also, he's like having another RB in the backfield. To me the  stat that stands out is Schatz last year completed 52% of his passes and McSweeny has completed 69% along with 320 yds on the ground. The yards are not really important, but what is is the questions can you convert on 3rd and short consistently and hit your targets more often than not. Thats backing up my comment, I do believe.  Ive seen both play and this is not a stat but McSweeny seems  more composed in the pocket.
  We seem to root for the same team and I am glad Wesley has a quality backup QB in case anything happens to the starter. I am not trying to start a "vendetta" or anything, Im just giving a reason why Wesley should fare well up at Muhlenberg this week.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: TrickyTroy on November 17, 2008, 08:08:37 PM
Wesley will not make it out of second round. :'( As far as seedings I would of gave them a 4 or 5 but no where close to 1,2,or3. 7 is unjust for them ???. Great game between the mules and wesley, but winner faces umhb( one of the best defenses in the nation) or HSU which will cause wesley major problems( they are pass happy not a running team. wesley is great against the run not so good against the pass ;D)  Wesley better root for UMHB ;).That way they have a chance in the second round.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: AJK on November 17, 2008, 09:47:15 PM
 Thats the same thing Wesley heard the the last time they went to UMHB. They went down there and smacked them in the mouth. Beavers only had 3 TDs that time and about 200yds receiving.
  Last year they were without Beavers and McSweeny if you recall. Wesley has to many weapons on offense. UMHB has not seen a team with this much balance on offense. The only team out there thats going to beat them in the South is themselves. If they dont drop it on the ground they will be fine.
  UMHB lost to Southern Oregon. Willamette beat Southern Oregon. I saw Willamette play 2 weeks ago and have to say I was not to impressed.
  UMHB should root for the Mules.
 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: wesleydad on November 17, 2008, 10:00:54 PM
ajk, please get the info right you are starting to make us wesley people look stupid.  beavers played last year, check the stats, he was ineffective running or receiving.  they didnt have mcsweeney because he wasnt good enough to start.  the fact that wesley beat umhb in texas, what is now 4 years ago, is insignificant.  the only thing i can agree with you on is that umhb should cheer for muhlenburg.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: crufootball on November 17, 2008, 10:09:46 PM
As a UMHB fan, the only team I will be rooting for is UMHB as we will have our hands full with HSU.

One thing though, I would not put too much stock in how well we did againnst Southern Oregon, since we were down to our 5th and 6th running backs. The starter that game was our back up linebacker and the back  up was a freshman who had only played in one game before that.

Man I wish there was this much to read during the regular season.

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: TrickyTroy on November 17, 2008, 11:28:38 PM
man looks like wesley only seen wesley play. I can tell you wesley offense is no were close to what HSU offense is and UMHB can inform you of that.  There is a reason ncaa pick MHB and HSU 2 and 3 seeds and the wesley 7 seed, AJ so what UMHB lost to Something Org. I'm a HSU fan can can tell you they played with what it seemed their tenth team rbs, 2nd team QB, 2nd team wr, and I beleive 1 2nd team lb. Am I right UMHB? HSU beat Linfeld, Linfield crushed that org. team, and UMHB beat HSU by 2pts this season. PAST OPP. are Past OPP.  As a HSU FAN, I'm  hopeing to see what should be a south final in the first round. Mules and Wesley concern me as very little compare to UMHB. UMHB been one of very few teams that can slow down HSU offense.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: AJK on November 18, 2008, 02:06:36 AM
 Wesleydad sorry. gave you the stats you asked for.
I  stand corrected. Beavers did play last year against UMHB. My appologies thanks
for the correction. 
  My first comment was just stating that wesley got hosed for being a 7 seed. sorry that struck a nerve.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: The Forgotten Man on November 18, 2008, 07:23:43 AM
Quote from: exmajor on November 17, 2008, 06:14:32 PM

... Should be a good one, have to watch it online this week, but will be there in spirit!

Can you share the link for the game? My family up in Pennsylvania would love to see the game.

Thanks.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 18, 2008, 08:29:07 AM
Quote from: AJK on November 18, 2008, 02:06:36 AM
Wesleydad sorry. gave you the stats you asked for.
I  stand corrected. Beavers did play last year against UMHB. My appologies thanks
for the correction. 
  My first comment was just stating that wesley got hosed for being a 7 seed. sorry that struck a nerve.

yeah but how long are you going to btch about this?  There's 200 other D3 teams that would love to trade places with Wesley.  If you believe your team is so good, then why do you care where you are seeded?  It shouldn't, and doesnt matter.  Just play the game. 

BTW, those are great numbers (last year) for a QB, wesleydad.  What was the reasoning for the switch to these other QB?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 18, 2008, 08:47:13 AM
Quote from: crufootball on November 17, 2008, 10:09:46 PM
As a UMHB fan, the only team I will be rooting for is UMHB as we will have our hands full with HSU.

One thing though, I would not put too much stock in how well we did againnst Southern Oregon, since we were down to our 5th and 6th running backs. The starter that game was our back up linebacker and the back  up was a freshman who had only played in one game before that.

Man I wish there was this much to read during the regular season.
Let HPU and ETBU start challenging for the crown, as we have seen in recent seasons, and the chat will go thru the roof!   :)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: exmajor on November 18, 2008, 01:16:18 PM
Quote from: The Forgotten Man on November 18, 2008, 07:23:43 AM
Quote from: exmajor on November 17, 2008, 06:14:32 PM

... Should be a good one, have to watch it online this week, but will be there in spirit!

Can you share the link for the game? My family up in Pennsylvania would love to see the game.

Thanks.

They should be able to go through d3football.com to get to it, under the scores/schedule page or try this direct link:

http://www.atwsportscast.com/Colleges/Millsaps%20College.htm
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: The Forgotten Man on November 18, 2008, 01:27:16 PM
Thanks for the assist.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on November 18, 2008, 02:28:21 PM
Quote from: crufootball on November 17, 2008, 10:09:46 PM

Man I wish there was this much to read during the regular season.


Aahhh....that's just it.  The playoffs bring out the best and worst in people.  It is the ultimate reality show where one bad episode and you are gone.  Trash talking starts here and judging by the posts, it's not just us Wesley guys spouting gas.   ;D

-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: muledaddy on November 18, 2008, 04:44:29 PM
Mates,

I am not really good with numbers.However, my computer, at National Sports rankings, tells me that the mules beat Wesly, by an average of 3 pts, 16 out of 25  to show themselves, and the world, that dreams can come true.......
On paper, Wesley has a clear edge.The key to this game is not on paper;its in the heart.Sheer speed and
talent favor Wesley, but the will to win can not be measured easily..If the Mules come to win, they will win.
If they can win the turnover war, and play defense like crazy, they will not be denied. Otherwise, Wolverines pull a carbon copy of last year's disheartening defeat at The Ditch. Make Allentown proud.
On DeLuca,on Santagato,on Nolan, on Cresta, on Moates, on Rathbun, on Mazzola, on Doyle,on Ahouse,make it happen...Go Mules
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: crufootball on November 18, 2008, 05:46:22 PM
Muledaddy, if Wesley clearly wins on paper how do the Mules win according to a computer ranking system? I agree the Mules have the tools to win the game, but would not think it would show up on a computer system if they are outmatched on paper.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: muledaddy on November 18, 2008, 05:59:02 PM

Cru

I don't know the answer...the computer just spits it out after you id the teams and who is home
team, select a 25 game series, and presto.......try it

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: wesleydad on November 18, 2008, 06:50:31 PM
saintsfan, most would agree that the numbers were just fine last year.  the % completion is not high because of the pass plays called, usually in the 10 - 20 range even on short yardage plays.

why the change?  since i am pretty close to the situation, it was my son who was the QB last year, there has never been a really clear explanation as to the change.  explanations were given, most of which make no sense, something about practice completions and the like.

personally, i think there was a change in plans by the o coordinator knowing that they would be good this year, looking ahead to the next couple of years and preparing for the lose of so many players on offense.  as you can see by the % and yardage total this year, most of the passes have been a much shorter variety, most between 0 - 5 yards with the hope of a receiver breaking a play. 

wesley's record is exactly what it would have been with either player at QB this year.  the schedule was not difficult compared to last years.  the frustrating part of it is that a senior was replaced by a sophomore, and said senior did everything that was asked of him for the team, playing and leading the conference in receptions 2 years ago when they were struggling to find receivers.  playing QB last year for a team that went to the region finals only losing to a umhb team that gave UWW all it wanted the following week.  life takes funny turns and sometimes they dont make sense, but you move on and do what you can for the team.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Llamaguy on November 18, 2008, 06:50:56 PM
Quote from: muledaddy on November 18, 2008, 05:59:02 PM

Cru

I don't know the answer...the computer just spits it out after you id the teams and who is home
team, select a 25 game series, and presto.......try it



As with BCS rankings, there is more than one rating service. Born Power ratings has Wesley as a 6pt favorite in Saturday's game.  ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: wesleydad on November 18, 2008, 06:56:07 PM
hey llama, thanks for the seat info for the stagg.  i guess i need to call the office to pre purchase since i cant find any online orders for the game.  hard to believe but it is right around the corner.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Gray Fox on November 18, 2008, 07:34:13 PM
Quote from: Llamaguy on November 18, 2008, 06:50:56 PM
Quote from: muledaddy on November 18, 2008, 05:59:02 PM

Cru

I don't know the answer...the computer just spits it out after you id the teams and who is home
team, select a 25 game series, and presto.......try it



As with BCS rankings, there is more than one rating service. Born Power ratings has Wesley as a 6pt favorite in Saturday's game.  ;)
This guy also has Wesley by 6.

http://www.virtual-elrod.com/files/forecast.htm

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 18, 2008, 07:35:25 PM
Muhlenberg hasn't played a quality opponent all year.  Wesley by 15.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: JAdaPrince on November 18, 2008, 08:23:37 PM
SAINTSFan ... You might wanna change your signature and add 2008 to the Bridge Bowl champs
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 18, 2008, 10:18:00 PM
It looks like Josh Bowerman, Gray Fox and I will be able to come down for the UMHB-HSU game.

We would like to meet and "re-meet" as many fans as possible.

Per chance shall there be a tailgating opportunity for the visitors on Saturday?

A "Lime-Stone Station" perhaps?  ;D

Y'all go the home game!  Lots of fans are rolling in... It's a tradition that ought to be continued...   ;)

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: roocru on November 19, 2008, 12:08:31 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 18, 2008, 10:18:00 PM
It looks like Josh Bowerman, Gray Fox and I will be able to come down for the UMHB-HSU game.

We would like to meet and "re-meet" as many fans as possible.

Per chance shall there be a tailgating opportunity for the visitors on Saturday?

A "Lime-Stone Station" perhaps?  ;D

Y'all go the home game!  Lots of fans are rolling in... It's a tradition that ought to be continued...   ;)

Ralph,

I will be there, don't know about tailgating, but Josh knows how to get to Schoepf's Bar-B-Q and I will be there after the game for sure!!  ;D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Toby Taff on November 19, 2008, 12:11:40 AM
what would the lime stone station version of communion look like?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 19, 2008, 12:48:22 AM
Quote from: mhb8904 AKA Toby Taff on November 19, 2008, 12:11:40 AM
what would the lime stone station version of communion look like?
Methodist or Baptist?  :D

Communion Wafers and Grape Juice...  ;)

United Methodist Church documents (http://archives.umc.org/frames.asp?url=http%3A//www.gbod.org/worship/default.asp%3Fact%3Dreader%26item_id=1743&loc_id=9%2C10,39)

Welch's Grape Juice (http://www.welchs.com/about-welchs/history.aspx)

The Welch family is credited with unfermented grape juice and its use a Communion elements, so that even alcoholics would not 'backslide" on Communion wine.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: crudbdad on November 19, 2008, 10:59:42 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 18, 2008, 10:18:00 PM
It looks like Josh Bowerman, Gray Fox and I will be able to come down for the UMHB-HSU game.

We would like to meet and "re-meet" as many fans as possible.

Per chance shall there be a tailgating opportunity for the visitors on Saturday?

A "Lime-Stone Station" perhaps?  ;D Ralph- we will be there tail gating. Would like to meet you. Look for the Champagne colored Suburban with all the high school stickers on the back. Will try to get on the firsst or 2nd row.

Y'all go the home game!  Lots of fans are rolling in... It's a tradition that ought to be continued...   ;)


Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 19, 2008, 03:57:01 PM
crudbdad!

We will look for you.  Depending on the weather, I will probably wear my McMurry University Men's Track National Championship maroon T-shirt or a vintage McMurry Indian Baseball Warm-up Jacket!   :)

Looking forward to this!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 19, 2008, 04:01:52 PM
But *where* do we find you, Ralph?  I estimate a strong chance of being able to go.

I'd wear my Trinity Stagg Bowl cap if I hadn't burned it already  :o
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: muledaddy on November 19, 2008, 04:42:21 PM

Ron,

Thanks for your opinion that the Mules have not played a quality opponent all year...I was wondering when the Mule hater was coming out of the closet...Mules  by 7......now we know where the negative votes

came from every Monday....like the Mules could really pick their schedule......let's get real...many of the teams
in the playoffs haven't had a chance to play teams like MUC, Whitewater, North Central etc....through
no fault of their own.....does that mean they shouldn't get a chance to play the best..apparently not in your world,,,GO MULES
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 19, 2008, 05:02:55 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 19, 2008, 04:01:52 PM
But *where* do we find you, Ralph?  I estimate a strong chance of being able to go.

I'd wear my Trinity Stagg Bowl cap if I hadn't burned it already  :o
I will post a location later.  (Will discuss with Josh and GrayFox!)

Where will the best tail-gaiting location be?  The West side stands?  Or in the parking lot south of the stadium?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 19, 2008, 05:11:07 PM
Quote from: muledaddy on November 19, 2008, 04:42:21 PM

Ron,

Thanks for your opinion that the Mules have not played a quality opponent all year...I was wondering when the Mule hater was coming out of the closet...Mules  by 7......now we know where the negative votes

came from every Monday....like the Mules could really pick their schedule......let's get real...many of the teams
in the playoffs haven't had a chance to play teams like MUC, Whitewater, North Central etc....through
no fault of their own.....does that mean they shouldn't get a chance to play the best..apparently not in your world,,,GO MULES

Muledaddy, respectfully, Ron Boerger was the South Region reporter from 2003 to 2005.  He has seen some very good teams back in the better days for Trinity, too.

I also look at the playoff history when Texas has played the northern half of the South Region.  Wesley gives us trouble!  Very few other teams in the other part of the region do.

I am holding silent on the outcomes.  I think that I know what will happen, but fortunately, it will be decided on the field.

Good luck.  I know with whom I think that we ASC match up better.  Let's see what happens on Saturday.   :)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: crudbdad on November 19, 2008, 05:12:36 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 19, 2008, 05:02:55 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 19, 2008, 04:01:52 PM
But *where* do we find you, Ralph?  I estimate a strong chance of being able to go.

I'd wear my Trinity Stagg Bowl cap if I hadn't burned it already  :o
I will post a location later.  (Will discuss with Josh and GrayFox!)

Where will the best tail-gaiting location be?  The West side stands?  Or in the parking lot south of the stadium?
I think the south side gives you more room(have to take up 2 parking spots) and opportunity to see more people. Some people tailgate on the southwest side by the elementary school.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on November 19, 2008, 05:41:13 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 19, 2008, 05:11:07 PM

I am holding silent on the outcomes.  I think that I know what will happen, but fortunately, it will be decided on the field.


Well stated.  I, too, like to keep my slices of humble pie small.  I'm on a diet, you know.  ;)

-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 19, 2008, 06:13:59 PM
Quote from: muledaddy on November 19, 2008, 04:42:21 PM

Ron,

Thanks for your opinion that the Mules have not played a quality opponent all year...I was wondering when the Mule hater was coming out of the closet...Mules  by 7......now we know where the negative votes

came from every Monday....like the Mules could really pick their schedule......let's get real...many of the teams
in the playoffs haven't had a chance to play teams like MUC, Whitewater, North Central etc....through
no fault of their own.....does that mean they shouldn't get a chance to play the best..apparently not in your world,,,GO MULES

I don't have any votes, but nice try.  I also don't know where you get that I think the Mules shouldn't 'get a chance to play the best' (which I suppose is your way of saying make the playoffs); they won their conference's automatic bid, and that's all you can ask any team to do. 

If Muhlenberg wanted to 'play the best' during the regular season, though, all they have to do is pick up the phone and call LK or coaches of any of the top programs who have problems lining up non-conference opponents.    Coach Fred at UMHB would be overjoyed to get a call, too, and that would even be an in-region game.   Don't boo-hoo me on your non-conference opponents, most everyone else picks who they want and if you have crappy non-conf opponents, you'll get called on it.  I've called my own alma mater on it this year fer cryin' out loud because it cost THEM.

You haven't played a single opponent that got into playoffs; I don't think you've even played one that was regionally ranked.  That's my definition of 'quality opponent.'

With an undefeated season on the line last week, the Mules snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.  Wesley is bigger, stronger, and faster than Moravian and has a heckuva lot more playoff experience, so I made a prediction you don't like.  Shoot me. 

And if I'm wrong - it will hardly be the first time and I'll come here, admit I was wrong, and congratulate the Mules on their 'upset' win.  Thankfully Pat extends all of us the ability to express our opinions, not just those who are so blinded by their support of the team their son plays on that they can't even consider another point of view. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: roocru on November 19, 2008, 06:20:02 PM
Quote from: muledaddy on November 19, 2008, 04:42:21 PM

Ron,

Thanks for your opinion that the Mules have not played a quality opponent all year...I was wondering when the Mule hater was coming out of the closet...Mules  by 7......now we know where the negative votes

came from every Monday....like the Mules could really pick their schedule......let's get real...many of the teams
in the playoffs haven't had a chance to play teams like MUC, Whitewater, North Central etc....through
no fault of their own.....does that mean they shouldn't get a chance to play the best..apparently not in your world,,,GO MULES

This is one of the most petty posts I have seen in quite awhile.  First, you are wrong in your assumption of the voters in the poll and then you attack one of the most respected posters in the D3 world as well as the South Region.  If this is what you normally do, go back to your own board and post there and leave this to more educated posters.  One look at your karma tells me this is not the first time you have said something like this!!!   >:(
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 19, 2008, 06:26:30 PM
Ron & roocru,  +1.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: muledaddy on November 19, 2008, 09:30:20 PM
Mates,

Quality teams, like Union and Wilkes, (in other years) are good non conference opponents for the Mules.

The fact that they were not really strong this year is hardly sufficient ammunition to cast stones at the Mules.TCNJ, whom we shut out last year, was not a bad opponent. (playoff team)
This board is about free speech, notwithstanding opinions to the contrary, as long as it relates to the
general topic. Personal attacks, namecalling, and describing others or their posts as "petty" reflects poorly
on those who think they are either superior or knowledgeable.Lighten up and enjoy the games......and the banter
...see the Mule-Wesley stats on the Centenniel board....its a tossup,Bill,Roo, and Ron
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: @d3jason on November 19, 2008, 09:50:36 PM
Wesley needs regional games too.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: muledaddy on November 19, 2008, 09:59:58 PM

Conrad,

I suggested  to the Mule admin that they pursue Wesley as an opponent as soon as they had beaten us in the playoffs last year, looking for the test early in the year.It just didn't fit for this year with previous obligations too honor.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 19, 2008, 10:03:00 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 19, 2008, 06:13:59 PM
If Muhlenberg wanted to 'play the best' during the regular season, though, all they have to do is pick up the phone and call LK or coaches of any of the top programs who have problems lining up non-conference opponents.    Coach Fred at UMHB would be overjoyed to get a call, too, and that would even be an in-region game.   Don't boo-hoo me on your non-conference opponents, most everyone else picks who they want and if you have crappy non-conf opponents, you'll get called on it.  I've called my own alma mater on it this year fer cryin' out loud because it cost THEM.

Wesley and Salisbury are in the neighborhood and perennially need opponents.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 19, 2008, 10:09:01 PM
Quote from: muledaddy link=topic=4102.msg987252#msg987252This board is about free speech, notwithstanding opinions to the contrary, as long as it relates to the
general topic. Personal attacks, namecalling, and describing others or their posts as "petty" reflects poorly
on those who think they are either superior or knowledgeable.Lighten up and enjoy the games......and the banter
...see the Mule-Wesley stats on the Centenniel board....its a tossup,Bill,Roo, and Ron

Let's see.  You called me a "hater" who was "coming out of the closet" and then falsely accused me of saying "they shouldn't get a chance to play the best."   

Name-calling?  Check.
Personal attack?  Check.
Making things up to support your argument?  Check. 

I don't think you are the one to pull the "lighten up" or "name calling" card, unless you heed your own advice first.   

Enjoy your weekend.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: roocru on November 19, 2008, 11:36:14 PM
Quote from: muledaddy on November 19, 2008, 04:42:21 PM

Ron,

Thanks for your opinion that the Mules have not played a quality opponent all year...I was wondering when the Mule hater was coming out of the closet...Mules  by 7......now we know where the negative votes

came from every Monday
....like the Mules could really pick their schedule......let's get real...many of the teams
in the playoffs haven't had a chance to play teams like MUC, Whitewater, North Central etc....through
no fault of their own.....does that mean they shouldn't get a chance to play the best..apparently not in your world,,,GO MULES

And which parts of the highlighted  quotes above are "banter"?  Banter I understand!  If you want to see real banter, visit the NWC, MIAC or even OAC boards.  That is banter at it's best.

You called out another poster calling him a "hater", blamed him for something he had no part of, accused him of something he had already complained about against the team he personally roots for, and said "his world" was  an inferior one.  He did not infer that one had to play a team like the ones you mentioned, you put those words in his mouth!!  This was a drive-by and nothing more.

I read the Centennial board every day and I had already called up the comparative stats to help me with my pickem's as I have for all the playoff teams.  It will probably be a tossup.  I have also read the Centennial board often enough to see you are sometimes not real popular over there either!

Maybe it's time for you to "loosen up" and see the error of your ways.  A simple apology would have been the appropriate response to Ron's well thought out reply!  Instead you fall back on the first amendment to justify your remarks.

As other longtime posters will tell you, I very seldom get on my soap box, but this post confirmed my impressions of you and reminded me of all the uninformed and "petty" parents I dealt with in my 35 years of coaching and being an Athletic Director.  They too had blinders on when it came to their kids and their program.  Why don't you just cheer for your team and leave it at that.  No one appointed you as their defender.  Maybe, just maybe, you do not know it all!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 20, 2008, 08:36:26 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 19, 2008, 10:09:01 PM
Quote from: muledaddy link=topic=4102.msg987252#msg987252This board is about free speech, notwithstanding opinions to the contrary, as long as it relates to the
general topic. Personal attacks, namecalling, and describing others or their posts as "petty" reflects poorly
on those who think they are either superior or knowledgeable.Lighten up and enjoy the games......and the banter
...see the Mule-Wesley stats on the Centenniel board....its a tossup,Bill,Roo, and Ron

Let's see.  You called me a "hater" who was "coming out of the closet" and then falsely accused me of saying "they shouldn't get a chance to play the best."   

Name-calling?  Check.
Personal attack?  Check.
Making things up to support your argument?  Check. 

I don't think you are the one to pull the "lighten up" or "name calling" card, unless you heed your own advice first.   

Enjoy your weekend.

Maybe he's allowed to do the above because he doesn't consider himself "superior" or knowledgeable??  Thus it doesn't reflect poorly on him..
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: ATownStomp on November 20, 2008, 11:54:17 AM
I am a brand new member of D3boards and wanted to say hello to everyone on the board and that I have been watching these boards for a while and am very familiar with D3 football especially the South Region.

I saw some of the posts back and forth between muledaddy and a couple of other posters most notably Ron and just wanted to throw my two cents in because franky...that's what these boards are for. While I do believe Wesley to be the favorite for the upcoming game I don't see the legitimate argument when it comes to quality opponents. Muhlenberg beat a quality Johns Hopkins team and lost an overtime game to a quality Moravian team. Most other teams in the South Region really don't have much more than that. I am very curious to see how Johns Hopkins fairs against Catholic and Moravian against Salisbury considering the Centennial is considered to be a "weak conference" by most ... which is warranted ( I guess) based on past playoff performances. I am predicting two Centennial Conference ECAC wins by very narrow margins with the home field advantage tipping the scales.

Wesley is bigger faster stronger than the Mules. But they are on the road, have a week to prepare for a multiple offense that has more big play threats than last year (can't load the box as much as you could last year) and a defense that is still going to blitz you from all over and a more experienced secondary. Mules will lose if they have turnovers and penalties (big problem last couple of weeks). Last weeks wake up call hopefully (you know who I am rooting for) has these guys ready to bring it against a perennial powerhouse. Ace in the hole is the "Duke" Donnelly Mules by a field goal. Muhlenberg is ranked exactly where they should be I see nothing wrong with this ranking except that Wesley is the best 7 seed by far in the NCAA's and they got screwed by a hurricane and this game would probably be in DE otherwise.

Either way we will see go Mules!!!



Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on November 20, 2008, 12:11:03 PM
Quote from: ATownStomp on November 20, 2008, 11:54:17 AM
I am a brand new member of D3boards and wanted to say hello to everyone on the board and that I have been watching these boards for a while and am very familiar with D3 football especially the South Region.

I saw some of the posts back and forth between muledaddy and a couple of other posters most notably Ron and just wanted to throw my two cents in because franky...that's what these boards are for. While I do believe Wesley to be the favorite for the upcoming game I don't see the legitimate argument when it comes to quality opponents. Muhlenberg beat a quality Johns Hopkins team and lost an overtime game to a quality Moravian team. Most other teams in the South Region really don't have much more than that. I am very curious to see how Johns Hopkins fairs against Catholic and Moravian against Salisbury considering the Centennial is considered to be a "weak conference" by most ... which is warranted ( I guess) based on past playoff performances. I am predicting two Centennial Conference ECAC wins by very narrow margins with the home field advantage tipping the scales.

Wesley is bigger faster stronger than the Mules. But they are on the road, have a week to prepare for a multiple offense that has more big play threats than last year (can't load the box as much as you could last year) and a defense that is still going to blitz you from all over and a more experienced secondary. Mules will lose if they have turnovers and penalties (big problem last couple of weeks). Last weeks wake up call hopefully (you know who I am rooting for) has these guys ready to bring it against a perennial powerhouse. Ace in the hole is the "Duke" Donnelly Mules by a field goal. Muhlenberg is ranked exactly where they should be I see nothing wrong with this ranking except that Wesley is the best 7 seed by far in the NCAA's and they got screwed by a hurricane and this game would probably be in DE otherwise.

Either way we will see go Mules!!!


A sincere welcome to the board is in order!  Will you be at the Muhlenberg game this weekend?

-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 20, 2008, 12:14:42 PM
Welcome, Atown!  Glad to have new posters on the boards!  +1!  :)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: kickerdad on November 20, 2008, 12:51:54 PM
Quote from: roocru on November 19, 2008, 11:36:14 PM
Quote from: muledaddy on November 19, 2008, 04:42:21 PM


As other longtime posters will tell you, I very seldom get on my soap box, but this post confirmed my impressions of you and reminded me of all the uninformed and "petty" parents I dealt with in my 35 years of coaching and being an Athletic Director.  They too had blinders on when it came to their kids and their program.   Why don't you just cheer for your team and leave it at that.  No one appointed you as their defender.  Maybe, just maybe, you do not know it all!!

Roo

I agree, I've coached as well but not on the college level. I have had my share of parents bending my ear. However, there are a few of us (parents) out there that behave ourselves. I just finished four years of being a DIII parent and didn't bash anyone or any other school with exception of my own son when he screwed up.   ;) 

Remember this is a game and life is too short to fuss about "Mickey Mouse" Poop.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: kickerdad on November 20, 2008, 12:53:53 PM
Quote from: kickerdad on November 20, 2008, 12:51:54 PM
Quote from: roocru on November 19, 2008, 11:36:14 PM
Quote from: muledaddy on November 19, 2008, 04:42:21 PM


As other longtime posters will tell you, I very seldom get on my soap box, but this post confirmed my impressions of you and reminded me of all the uninformed and "petty" parents I dealt with in my 35 years of coaching and being an Athletic Director.  They too had blinders on when it came to their kids and their program.   Why don't you just cheer for your team and leave it at that.  No one appointed you as their defender.  Maybe, just maybe, you do not know it all!!

Roo

I agree, I've coached as well but not on the college level. I have had my share of parents bending my ear. However, there are a few of us (parents) out there that behave ourselves. I just finished four years of being a DIII parent and didn't bash anyone or any other school with exception of my own son when he screwed up.   ;) 

Remember this is a game and life is too short to fuss about "Mickey Mouse" Poop.

Darn it Ralph, I thought I did what you told me to do about the quote thing and still can't get it right.

Oh well, maybe I need another 4 years to get it straight.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: roocru on November 20, 2008, 01:15:29 PM
Quote from: kickerdad on November 20, 2008, 12:51:54 PM
Roo

I agree, I've coached as well but not on the college level. I have had my share of parents bending my ear. However, there are a few of us (parents) out there that behave ourselves. I just finished four years of being a DIII parent and didn't bash anyone or any other school with exception of my own son when he screwed up.   ;) 

Remember this is a game and life is too short to fuss about "Mickey Mouse" Poop.

Kickerdad,

I certainly did not mean to include "all" parents in my statement.  As you well know, the majority of parents who had kids play D3 ball (or high school) were like you.  My time coaching was all in Texas high schools as well.  I guess since the parents with blinders on were a major reason in my decision to retire a year and a half ago, sometimes that gets my dander up!  I have enjoyed your posts on the other boards and hope that you continue to post after your son has gone on to bigger and better things.  My son last played in 2004 and I still enjoy being here!   :)  +k

ps;  scroll down to the last [/quote] mark, click right behind it, hit enter and start your post there.   ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: ATownStomp on November 20, 2008, 01:42:01 PM
I will be there without a doubt, maybe I will see you there. It should be a good one. No precipitation in the forecast (seems like this is the exceptio this season) just supposed to be a little above freezing! But you can't complain as long as you still have a game to go to. Sometimes you take for granted how great it is for your team to be playing in November especially in D3 when there are about 200 teams that aren't.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on November 20, 2008, 01:46:36 PM
Quote from: ATownStomp on November 20, 2008, 01:42:01 PM
I will be there without a doubt, maybe I will see you there. It should be a good one. No precipitation in the forecast (seems like this is the exceptio this season) just supposed to be a little above freezing! But you can't complain as long as you still have a game to go to. Sometimes you take for granted how great it is for your team to be playing in November especially in D3 when there are about 200 teams that aren't.

Excellent.  We'll see you there.  I will be bundled up with my family, of course.

-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: crazylegs33 on November 20, 2008, 02:00:35 PM
Looks like snow Friday @ W&J. I should have fun driving from Newport News. I have to be crazy to be willing to drive in such conditions but seeing CNU beat W&J will make it 100% worth it. Ha Ha.

Be Careful on the roads if you are traveling to one of the games this weekend.

Go Captains!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on November 20, 2008, 02:45:24 PM
Quote from: crazylegs33 on November 20, 2008, 02:00:35 PM
Looks like snow Friday @ W&J. I should have fun driving from Newport News. I have to be crazy to be willing to drive in such conditions but seeing CNU beat W&J will make it 100% worth it. Ha Ha.

Be Careful on the roads if you are traveling to one of the games this weekend.

Go Captains!

The Division III playoffs tend to do that to you!!  Have a safe drive.

-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 20, 2008, 03:10:22 PM
Quote from: ATownStomp on November 20, 2008, 11:54:17 AM
I am a brand new member of D3boards and wanted to say hello to everyone on the board and that I have been watching these boards for a while and am very familiar with D3 football especially the South Region.

I saw some of the posts back and forth between muledaddy and a couple of other posters most notably Ron and just wanted to throw my two cents in because franky...that's what these boards are for. While I do believe Wesley to be the favorite for the upcoming game I don't see the legitimate argument when it comes to quality opponents. Muhlenberg beat a quality Johns Hopkins team and lost an overtime game to a quality Moravian team. Most other teams in the South Region really don't have much more than that. I am very curious to see how Johns Hopkins fairs against Catholic and Moravian against Salisbury considering the Centennial is considered to be a "weak conference" by most ... which is warranted ( I guess) based on past playoff performances. I am predicting two Centennial Conference ECAC wins by very narrow margins with the home field advantage tipping the scales.

Wesley is bigger faster stronger than the Mules. But they are on the road, have a week to prepare for a multiple offense that has more big play threats than last year (can't load the box as much as you could last year) and a defense that is still going to blitz you from all over and a more experienced secondary. Mules will lose if they have turnovers and penalties (big problem last couple of weeks). Last weeks wake up call hopefully (you know who I am rooting for) has these guys ready to bring it against a perennial powerhouse. Ace in the hole is the "Duke" Donnelly Mules by a field goal. Muhlenberg is ranked exactly where they should be I see nothing wrong with this ranking except that Wesley is the best 7 seed by far in the NCAA's and they got screwed by a hurricane and this game would probably be in DE otherwise.

Either way we will see go Mules!!!

Welcome - even if our definition of quality opponents differs.    :D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: exmajor on November 20, 2008, 05:01:18 PM
Folks,

Forgive me ignorance/oversight here, but I was reading Keith's ATN a moment ago and he stated that if Millsaps wins this weekend, they get the winner of the Texas "sub-bracket" the following week.  I guess I was reading the bracket as is, thinking the winner of W&J/CNU would play the winner of Millsaps/La Grange.  But according to Keith's comments, travel costs must come into play in the later rounds as well.  Can some one shed some light on my tired eyes please?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: old ends on November 20, 2008, 05:10:19 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 20, 2008, 03:10:22 PM
Quote from: ATownStomp on November 20, 2008, 11:54:17 AM
I am a brand new member of D3boards and wanted to say hello to everyone on the board and that I have been watching these boards for a while and am very familiar with D3 football especially the South Region.

I saw some of the posts back and forth between muledaddy and a couple of other posters most notably Ron and just wanted to throw my two cents in because franky...that's what these boards are for. While I do believe Wesley to be the favorite for the upcoming game I don't see the legitimate argument when it comes to quality opponents. Muhlenberg beat a quality Johns Hopkins team and lost an overtime game to a quality Moravian team. Most other teams in the South Region really don't have much more than that. I am very curious to see how Johns Hopkins fairs against Catholic and Moravian against Salisbury considering the Centennial is considered to be a "weak conference" by most ... which is warranted ( I guess) based on past playoff performances. I am predicting two Centennial Conference ECAC wins by very narrow margins with the home field advantage tipping the scales.

Wesley is bigger faster stronger than the Mules. But they are on the road, have a week to prepare for a multiple offense that has more big play threats than last year (can't load the box as much as you could last year) and a defense that is still going to blitz you from all over and a more experienced secondary. Mules will lose if they have turnovers and penalties (big problem last couple of weeks). Last weeks wake up call hopefully (you know who I am rooting for) has these guys ready to bring it against a perennial powerhouse. Ace in the hole is the "Duke" Donnelly Mules by a field goal. Muhlenberg is ranked exactly where they should be I see nothing wrong with this ranking except that Wesley is the best 7 seed by far in the NCAA's and they got screwed by a hurricane and this game would probably be in DE otherwise.

Either way we will see go Mules!!!

Welcome - even if our definition of quality opponents differs.    :D

Muledaddy is that you  :D :D :D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 20, 2008, 05:24:49 PM
Quote from: exmajor on November 20, 2008, 05:01:18 PM
Folks,

Forgive me ignorance/oversight here, but I was reading Keith's ATN a moment ago and he stated that if Millsaps wins this weekend, they get the winner of the Texas "sub-bracket" the following week.  I guess I was reading the bracket as is, thinking the winner of W&J/CNU would play the winner of Millsaps/La Grange.  But according to Keith's comments, travel costs must come into play in the later rounds as well.  Can some one shed some light on my tired eyes please?
Yes, if Millsaps beats LaGrange, then Millsaps hoses the winner of #2 UMHB and #3 HSU.  If the ASC team wins the Millsaps game, then either UMHB or HSU hosts the Regional Final.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 20, 2008, 05:31:43 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 20, 2008, 05:24:49 PM
Quote from: exmajor on November 20, 2008, 05:01:18 PM
Folks,

Forgive me ignorance/oversight here, but I was reading Keith's ATN a moment ago and he stated that if Millsaps wins this weekend, they get the winner of the Texas "sub-bracket" the following week.  I guess I was reading the bracket as is, thinking the winner of W&J/CNU would play the winner of Millsaps/La Grange.  But according to Keith's comments, travel costs must come into play in the later rounds as well.  Can some one shed some light on my tired eyes please?
Yes, if Millsaps beats LaGrange, then Millsaps hoses the winner of #2 UMHB and #3 HSU.  If the ASC team wins the Millsaps game, then either UMHB or HSU hosts the Regional Final.

Wow, Ralph, Millsaps is going to "hose" the ASC winner?  You really can see into the future!   ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: exmajor on November 20, 2008, 05:32:12 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 20, 2008, 05:24:49 PM
Quote from: exmajor on November 20, 2008, 05:01:18 PM
Folks,

Forgive me ignorance/oversight here, but I was reading Keith's ATN a moment ago and he stated that if Millsaps wins this weekend, they get the winner of the Texas "sub-bracket" the following week.  I guess I was reading the bracket as is, thinking the winner of W&J/CNU would play the winner of Millsaps/La Grange.  But according to Keith's comments, travel costs must come into play in the later rounds as well.  Can some one shed some light on my tired eyes please?
Yes, if Millsaps beats LaGrange, then Millsaps hoses the winner of #2 UMHB and #3 HSU.  If the ASC team wins the Millsaps game, then either UMHB or HSU hosts the Regional Final.

Thanks Ralph, sorry I did not take notice of that . . . can't say that does not make my stomach churn some, yikes!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: muledaddy on November 20, 2008, 05:50:34 PM

Old,
   Please limp in front of the mule stands or,at the very least, near the hotdog stand at halftime, thus giving me a chance to find you and shake yuor hand...the new guy was good......Go Mules
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 20, 2008, 05:52:50 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 20, 2008, 05:24:49 PM
[Yes, if Millsaps beats LaGrange, then Millsaps hoses the winner of #2 UMHB and #3 HSU.  If the ASC team wins the Millsaps game, then either UMHB or HSU hosts the Regional Final.

Wait a minute, guys.  That's not the way the D-3 bracket works, at least it never has.

This isn't the NHL where things get re-shuffled every round.  The AA doesn't take the 16 winners from Saturday and re-figure the matchups based on airplane flights.

The bracket is set.  The Millsaps/LaGrange winner faces the W&J/CNU winner.  Period.  If Millsaps wins, they host.  If LaGrange wins, they travel.

Then, in the region finals, the highest remaining seed hosts the final.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 20, 2008, 06:09:14 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 20, 2008, 05:24:49 PM
Quote from: exmajor on November 20, 2008, 05:01:18 PM
Folks,

Forgive me ignorance/oversight here, but I was reading Keith's ATN a moment ago and he stated that if Millsaps wins this weekend, they get the winner of the Texas "sub-bracket" the following week.  I guess I was reading the bracket as is, thinking the winner of W&J/CNU would play the winner of Millsaps/La Grange.  But according to Keith's comments, travel costs must come into play in the later rounds as well.  Can some one shed some light on my tired eyes please?
Yes, if Millsaps beats LaGrange, then Millsaps hoses   "h-o-s-t-s"   the winner of #2 UMHB and #3 HSU.  If the ASC team wins the Millsaps game, then either UMHB or HSU hosts the Regional Final.
Big-time mess-up!

My BAD!!!!   :-\   :o   ::)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Carl Menist on November 20, 2008, 06:14:29 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 20, 2008, 05:52:50 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 20, 2008, 05:24:49 PM
[Yes, if Millsaps beats LaGrange, then Millsaps hoses the winner of #2 UMHB and #3 HSU.  If the ASC team wins the Millsaps game, then either UMHB or HSU hosts the Regional Final.

Wait a minute, guys.  That's not the way the D-3 bracket works, at least it never has.

This isn't the NHL where things get re-shuffled every round.  The AA doesn't take the 16 winners from Saturday and re-figure the matchups based on airplane flights.

The bracket is set.  The Millsaps/LaGrange winner faces the W&J/CNU winner.  Period.  If Millsaps wins, they host.  If LaGrange wins, they travel.

Then, in the region finals, the highest remaining seed hosts the final.

This makes more sense to me, but Ralph really seems to be a master of the rules. I briefly reviewed the handbook and did not see an indication that the second round games would be re-bracketed within region based on geographic proximity. However, the comments regarding all of this in the handbook were vague enough to deem a re-bracketing process plausable.

If this is the way it is it really is crazy. Why didn't they go ahead and put the southern teams on the same side of the bracket if geographic proximity and a re-bracketing was anticipated. Seems like Wesley and Muhlenberg would be fairly close to W&J and CNU?

Gotta play the games anyway but it seems like a published bracket should follow the bracket layout once established.

Little help here please??
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: exmajor on November 20, 2008, 07:09:56 PM
Quote from: Carl Menist on November 20, 2008, 06:14:29 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 20, 2008, 05:52:50 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 20, 2008, 05:24:49 PM
[Yes, if Millsaps beats LaGrange, then Millsaps hoses the winner of #2 UMHB and #3 HSU.  If the ASC team wins the Millsaps game, then either UMHB or HSU hosts the Regional Final.

Wait a minute, guys.  That's not the way the D-3 bracket works, at least it never has.

This isn't the NHL where things get re-shuffled every round.  The AA doesn't take the 16 winners from Saturday and re-figure the matchups based on airplane flights.

The bracket is set.  The Millsaps/LaGrange winner faces the W&J/CNU winner.  Period.  If Millsaps wins, they host.  If LaGrange wins, they travel.

Then, in the region finals, the highest remaining seed hosts the final.

This makes more sense to me, but Ralph really seems to be a master of the rules. I briefly reviewed the handbook and did not see an indication that the second round games would be re-bracketed within region based on geographic proximity. However, the comments regarding all of this in the handbook were vague enough to deem a re-bracketing process plausable.

If this is the way it is it really is crazy. Why didn't they go ahead and put the southern teams on the same side of the bracket if geographic proximity and a re-bracketing was anticipated. Seems like Wesley and Muhlenberg would be fairly close to W&J and CNU?

Gotta play the games anyway but it seems like a published bracket should follow the bracket layout once established.

Little help here please??

This is what I meant with my original question, but I did not want to go totally against what Keith said in ATN and what Ralph said on the board, out of respect of course.  I just wanted to find out what the correct answer is.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 20, 2008, 07:16:29 PM
Something I don't understand - on the NCAA bracket itself (http://www.d3boards.com/playoffs/footballbracket2008.pdf), in the second round it says "seeding first, followed by national rank".  What does THAT mean??
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: wesleydad on November 20, 2008, 07:19:45 PM
ralph, i wish you were correct, i trip to pittsburgh or newport news would be a lot shorter and less expensive than one to texas should wesley win this weekend.  no need to complain about the seedings, they are what they are.  

i expect wesley to be ready to play this weekend.  my concerns will be on the defensive side, the lack of pass rush, which may not hurt if it keeps santagata in the pocket and forces him to throw from there.  if i remember correct, he is good at making things happen scrambling.  wesley has been strong against the run and eventhough the mules are big upfront i dont expect them to have much more success than anyone else has this year.  on offense, wesley is balanced, but the stats are down from last year, partly due to the easier schedule and calling off the dogs early.  much has been made about the change at QB this year at wesley and whether or not they are better for it.  they have certainly changed their philosophy on pass plays with the large majority of them being less than 10 yards.  can that win against a tough defense that crowds the line of scrimmage and without checking the stats, i believe limited beavers impact last year.  the mules blitz, can the new Qb handle the pressure which he has not seen this year?  the running game will get its yards with pennywell and jackson.  this has the makings of a good game which i believe the wolverines win because i just think that they are better.

on the other issue, muledaddy speaks his piece, he and i have gone back and forth from time to time.  he is a great supporter of the mules and deserves credit for it.  i have told him that he goes over the top sometimes and he knows that, but if being excited about your team and your son playing is a crime then please arrest me too, because i have also been known to overspeak from time to time.  i dont believe he meant any disrespect to any other poster.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 20, 2008, 08:10:14 PM
Hmmm...

"After further review, the call is overruled."

I completely overlooked the bracket as posted on the NCAA pdf.  (I even went back to the Podcast where Pat Coleman and K-Mack discussed the brackets at 49 minutes to confirm the brackets.)

"My BAD!"

I thought that I had seen the southern half of the bracket working out and going against the northern half of the bracket.  With the restrictions on flights, I had the northern half of the South avoiding plane flights until the Regional finals.

The minimum number of flights that the South Region could have would be #6 CNU at #5 W&J and #7 Wesley at #4 Muhlenberg followed by Winner #6/#5 vs Winner #4/#7 at the higher seed.  All three combinations are within 500 miles.

#2 UMHB can bus to #1 Millsaps, as can #8 LaGrange to Millsaps.  If seeds held to form, then there would be only one plane flight in my mind.  This is where I became confused!

Well, that makes the bracket a little fairer.  If HSU beats UMHB, then the Cowboys could host a game at Thanksgiving.  An HSU victory over UMHB would mean two plane flights in the second round and a plane flight in the third round.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 20, 2008, 08:13:03 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 20, 2008, 07:16:29 PM
Something I don't understand - on the NCAA bracket itself (http://www.d3boards.com/playoffs/footballbracket2008.pdf), in the second round it says "seeding first, followed by national rank".  What does THAT mean??
Honestly, I don't know!

If the finance guys changed the Willamette bracket before it was released to cut the number of flights, it won't surprise me to see the #2 UMHB (winner over #3 HSU) to be bussed to #1 Millsaps, if the Majors beat LaGrange.   :-\
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 20, 2008, 08:49:14 PM
Hmmm

What's next?? 4 team brackets with the closer brackets matching up throughout the playoffs. I truly thought that there would be 2 flights in the second round. Talk about being sacked as a top three seeding...
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 20, 2008, 08:51:11 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 20, 2008, 07:16:29 PM
Something I don't understand - on the NCAA bracket itself (http://www.d3boards.com/playoffs/footballbracket2008.pdf), in the second round it says "seeding first, followed by national rank".  What does THAT mean??

Hmm, in the past I put the Top 25 ranking on the line with the teams. Didn't get to that this year.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 20, 2008, 09:13:05 PM
Sorry, Pat, I thought that came from the AA.  Thanks for clarifying.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 20, 2008, 09:33:06 PM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on November 20, 2008, 08:49:14 PM
Hmmm

What's next?? 4 team brackets with the closer brackets matching up throughout the playoffs. I truly thought that there would be 2 flights in the second round. Talk about being sacked as a top three seeding...
And as I review the bracket, I think that we are in line for two flights in the second round as it stands now.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: golden_dome on November 21, 2008, 12:01:13 PM
Here are D3football.com's picks for week one of the South Region bracket. The predicted scores should make for interesting conversation.

MILLSAPS (South) BRACKET
No. 8 LaGrange at No. 1 Millsaps
Keith: Millsaps, 49-17
Ryan: Millsaps, 45-10
Pat: Millsaps, 63-3

No. 6 Christopher Newport at No. 5 Washington & Jefferson
Keith: W&J, 28-21
Ryan: W&J, 34-31
Pat: W&J, 24-21

No. 7 Wesley at No. 4 Muhlenberg
Keith: Wesley, 21-20
Ryan: Wesley, 31-20
Pat: Wesley, 31-23

No. 3 Hardin-Simmons at No. 2 Mary Hardin-Baylor
Keith: Hardin-Simmons, 20-18
Ryan: Hardin-Simmons, 27-24
Pat: Hardin-Simmons, 38-35
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Josh Bowerman on November 21, 2008, 12:33:32 PM
I think if HSU can score more than 21 against the Crusaders tomorrow, there's a good chance of them winning the game.  If it's a low-scoring game, that probably means the UMHB defense is playing well and the Crusader running attack is eating up a lot of time off the clock.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: ATownStomp on November 21, 2008, 02:33:31 PM
Wow, all of you guys picked Hardin Simmons. I just like the formula of running the ball and defense especially in the postseason. Although it looks like it should ba great game. Real hard for me to gage either Texas team though all the way from ATown... although according to the NCAA's it is somehow located in the ...South?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 21, 2008, 02:39:57 PM
I am a bit suprised at the unanimous HSU pick.

I am not surprised about the unanimous Wesley pick.    ;D

At least if I am wrong, I'll be in good company.   ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: muledaddy on November 21, 2008, 03:46:47 PM
Gents,
The D3 picks are logical. I, quite naturally, must defy logic and say that the Mules can and will upset Wesley,
if they can hold them to 30 points or less....no small feat....but it can be done....turnovers, quarterback pressure, and tight defense will be required to kick the Wolverines...otherwise, it will be a long afternoon..
Go Mules.....

I got the other picks right, if the D3 crew is on the money...

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: majorsfan on November 21, 2008, 05:01:05 PM
Quote from: Chris Brooks on November 21, 2008, 12:01:13 PM
No. 8 LaGrange at No. 1 Millsaps
Keith: Millsaps, 49-17
Ryan: Millsaps, 45-10
Pat: Millsaps, 63-3

I'd love to see it, but I'm expecting a tough game out of LaGrange.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: frank_ezelle on November 21, 2008, 05:31:56 PM
I see that Pat got my shipment of Millsaps Kool-Aid.  I sent enough to last all 5 weeks but he must have drunk it all at once!  :o  I'll be happy with any of the three scores or any other score that has Millsaps scoring more points than LaGrange.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: thewaterboy on November 21, 2008, 10:57:49 PM
hello, i am new to the d3 boards but i have viewed them for about 2 seasons now.  ;)

Well, im pretty anxious for the Wesley game tomorrow, and if Wesley plays like they have most of the season excluding their first game, i think we will win. but turnovers could hurt Wesley. Its more fumbles than anything. But they have shown improvement in the ballhandling category. i think Wesley has just too many weapons on both sides of the ball. They are a very fast team with a very poised and excellent QB in Shane McSweeny (I like him because he has a very good presence in the pocket, and knows how to use his legs). Muhlenberg is also a very good football team, but I fear that they have not played anyone that is as tough as Wesley I dont believe, but if Wesley plays like they know how to and we execute, we win.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: roocru on November 22, 2008, 01:28:29 AM
Welcome aboard, waterboy!!  :D  +k for sticking your toes in the water!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on November 22, 2008, 07:28:14 AM
Quote from: the waterboy on November 21, 2008, 10:57:49 PM
hello, i am new to the d3 boards but i have viewed them for about 2 seasons now.  ;)

Well, im pretty anxious for the Wesley game tomorrow, and if Wesley plays like they have most of the season excluding their first game, i think we will win. but turnovers could hurt Wesley. Its more fumbles than anything. But they have shown improvement in the ballhandling category. i think Wesley has just too many weapons on both sides of the ball. They are a very fast team with a very poised and excellent QB in Shane McSweeny (I like him because he has a very good presence in the pocket, and knows how to use his legs). Muhlenberg is also a very good football team, but I fear that they have not played anyone that is as tough as Wesley I dont believe, but if Wesley plays like they know how to and we execute, we win.

A very warm welcome indeed!  Are you going to make the game?  Anyways, it will be a cold "hot" game!

I will be there, #92 jersey and all.  :D

-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: AJK on November 22, 2008, 09:14:27 AM
 Welcome Waterboy,
I have to agree with you. McSweeny will have to be on his A game though. The Mules like to biltz and gamble on  D which might cause some trouble but if they guess wrong Wesley has the right play called they will make some big plays downfield and if McSweeny gets by the blitz he will run for lots of yards. 

Prediction: Wesley 34 Mules 21
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 22, 2008, 09:23:35 AM
Good luck to all today.

Sorry that I cannot be in Belton today.  One of my call associates had a family emergency and needed me to cover for our group today. 


Travel safely, all.  Wish I could have met all of you.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: TrickyTroy on November 22, 2008, 09:43:25 AM
does anyone know if there is a live video feed for the mhb-hsu game
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 22, 2008, 11:00:53 AM
Quote from: TrickyTroy on November 22, 2008, 09:43:25 AM
does anyone know if there is a live video feed for the mhb-hsu game
The following is the obligatory tacky comment, reflecting the sentiments of envious ASC football fans that their team is not hosting a playoff football game today...   :D :D :D ;D   :)

NO!!! They are still trying to get reliable telephone service to the press box at Belton High School stadium.  When does DSL get there?   ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CNU85 on November 22, 2008, 12:17:19 PM
CNU drives...kicks FG up 3-0

W&J drives...TD  7-3

Can't keep doing this all day.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: raiderfan1983 on November 22, 2008, 12:17:56 PM
14-0 Mount over RMC
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: raiderfan1983 on November 22, 2008, 12:20:37 PM
21-0 Mount 6:19 to play in the 1st
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CNU85 on November 22, 2008, 12:27:22 PM
End of 1st. W&J up7-3 over CNU. Ogun has 11 carries for 60 yds.

CNU has ball 2nd and goal on W&J 3.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CNU85 on November 22, 2008, 12:30:14 PM
TD CNU!!!! Up 10-7
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CNU85 on November 22, 2008, 12:32:25 PM
W&J now into CNU side of field. This is an offesnive game. Just into 2nd qt CNU has 93 yds on ground. 110 total.

TD W&J.....wow
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CNU85 on November 22, 2008, 12:33:10 PM
14-10 W&J
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: thewaterboy on November 22, 2008, 02:38:29 PM
Well Wesley walks away with a win. It wasnt the offenses best outing but the defense helped us out. We made a few mistakes but we won a game that wasnt that pretty offensively. Well, we will see whos next. its 21-21 in the umhb game right now. Go Wesley!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 22, 2008, 02:43:46 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 18, 2008, 07:35:25 PM
Muhlenberg hasn't played a quality opponent all year.  Wesley by 15.

Bump.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 22, 2008, 02:59:30 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 22, 2008, 02:43:46 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 18, 2008, 07:35:25 PM
Muhlenberg hasn't played a quality opponent all year.  Wesley by 15.

Bump.

+1 Ron, you called that one!  Big time!  :)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: dlippiel on November 22, 2008, 03:44:19 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 22, 2008, 02:59:30 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 22, 2008, 02:43:46 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 18, 2008, 07:35:25 PM
Muhlenberg hasn't played a quality opponent all year.  Wesley by 15.

Bump.

+1 Ron, you called that one!  Big time!  :)

What happened to the Mules today? I thought Wesley would take it but not shut Deluca out? Interesting game and a solid win for Wesley, congrats!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 22, 2008, 05:31:34 PM
Quote from: dlippiel on November 22, 2008, 03:44:19 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 22, 2008, 02:59:30 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 22, 2008, 02:43:46 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 18, 2008, 07:35:25 PM
Muhlenberg hasn't played a quality opponent all year.  Wesley by 15.

Bump.

+1 Ron, you called that one!  Big time!  :)

What happened to the Mules today? I thought Wesley would take it but not shut Deluca out? Interesting game and a solid win for Wesley, congrats!


  Deluca had around 40 yrds rushing. He had a few recieving yrds.

Muledaddy was right.. If Muhlenberg scored 30 they would have won :)

+1 Ron
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on November 22, 2008, 06:36:02 PM
Well, I just got back from Allentown and boy, that was a COLD one!! 

Wesley got it done, and as mentioned above, thanks to the defense in the first half.  For some reason, Wesley doesn't play well in the cold (Note UWW results in the playoffs).  When the football is hard, Wesley just doesn't execute very well.  I knew things would be tough when the first reverse attempt got bobbled by Aaron Jackson and almost lost the fumble.  From there on end, Wesley just couldn't get things done, except when the defense stepped in and started to win the field position war Muhlenberg was waging on the Wolverines.  What really hurt the Mules was the last-second first half Hale Mary thrown by McSweeny to Lanounette to put the game at 13-0.   I knew the game was over then.

So IMHO, Wesley survived a spirited Muhlenberg team by:

1:  NO TURNOVERS!  There were a couple fumbles, but none were lost.

2:  That stubborn defense that bent at times, but kept Muhlenberg's offense from scoring in the red zone.  I can tell you, I haven't seen so many hard hits in a single game as I have today.  Wow.

So, now that my feet and brain have thawed, it's now onto Texas for the Wolverines.  Well done team.

It was a pleasure to meet Muledaddy and Wesleydad at the game.  And no, no riots errupted during or after the game, even though two of us were considering rushing the field.

-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: muledaddy on November 22, 2008, 08:16:14 PM

Mates,

It wasn't very pretty in Allentown today. It was cold and the coldest thing of all was the Mule offfense.
It wasn't a factor. Wesley defese was good.The Mules shot themselves in the foot in the first half,
dropping a td pass in the endzone and anotheer key drop.Giving up a Hail Mary pass td with no time on the clock before halftime was a backbreaker that made it a 13-0 game.The Mules of the past 2 weeks
have not resembled the Mules earlier in the season.Injuries decimated the Mule offense.Ron was right when he said that wesley would win by 15, but I never saw the shutout coming.......The only good
thing all day from this Mule fan's perspective was meeting 2 fine gentlemen who are also D3 superfan's,
Wesleydad and Teamski.Nothing beats D3 football. Go Wesley.......
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: The Forgotten Man on November 22, 2008, 11:53:06 PM
Congrats to Millsaps on a very well-played game. Good luck with the rest of the playoffs.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: thewaterboy on November 23, 2008, 12:50:13 PM
Well, were in a similar scenario. Wesley vs. UMHB. Hopefully we can give them a little pay back from last year, but our offense has to do a little better. Granted that the Muhlenberg defense played well, I watched the game online and noticed some things Wesley could improve on.

1. The Offensive line needs to do a better job of run and pass block. Pressure was in McSweeny's face all day and backs had no room to move on some of the plays.

2. Learn how to kick a field goal. Its no easy task but it drives me crazy when a kicker misses a 22 yarder and an extra point attempt. I mean come on thats all the kicker does. No offense to Blugis, but what happened to what he was doing last year.

3. Get Beavers the ball more. An easy task and not really a problem. I am 99% sure that Beavers will get the ball a lot more at UMHB. Hes our playmaker. The Mules didnt kick to him and he wasnt thrown to, partially because of the fact that McSweeny had no time to throw the ball 3/4 of the time he dropped back to pass.

Well thats all I can think of right now. Feel free to add on what ever you want, but I think I covered all of it. If Wesley can improve on these things, we got a good shot against UMHB. Now, as Forrest Gump would say,"Thats all I have to say about that."

Go Wesley!

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on November 23, 2008, 01:54:03 PM
Quote from: the waterboy on November 23, 2008, 12:50:13 PM

2. Learn how to kick a field goal. Its no easy task but it drives me crazy when a kicker misses a 22 yarder and an extra point attempt. I mean come on thats all the kicker does. No offense to Blugis, but what happened to what he was doing last year.


I don't know why Colin Blugis is in such a funk.  Last year, he did brilliantly as a Freshman, but this year, he has just been out of it.  I can't explain a thing like that.

-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 23, 2008, 02:08:16 PM
Quote from: Teamski on November 23, 2008, 01:54:03 PM
Quote from: the waterboy on November 23, 2008, 12:50:13 PM

2. Learn how to kick a field goal. Its no easy task but it drives me crazy when a kicker misses a 22 yarder and an extra point attempt. I mean come on thats all the kicker does. No offense to Blugis, but what happened to what he was doing last year.


I don't know why Colin Blugis is in such a funk.  Last year, he did brilliantly as a Freshman, but this year, he has just been out of it.  I can't explain a thing like that.

-Ski

   Sometimes it's just a little mechanical thing that throws off a kicker. He is still hitting the ball well he is just pushing it a little right. And yesterday with the wind blowing two different directions it's not always easy to have the ball do what you think it will do in the air. Coach Delgado does a great job with the kickers but he can't stand next to them on the fioeld during the game. I am sure Blugis will be fine.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on November 23, 2008, 03:07:08 PM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on November 23, 2008, 02:08:16 PM

   Sometimes it's just a little mechanical thing that throws off a kicker. He is still hitting the ball well he is just pushing it a little right. And yesterday with the wind blowing two different directions it's not always easy to have the ball do what you think it will do in the air. Coach Delgado does a great job with the kickers but he can't stand next to them on the fioeld during the game. I am sure Blugis will be fine.

I have no doubt that he will work it out.  You just don't lose that ability outright.

-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: thewaterboy on November 23, 2008, 08:31:51 PM
I saw that they let Antonio Regalbuto kick some extra points in the game against Gallaudet. Why not let Blugis take a break and have Regalbuto kick the PATs while Blugis straightens himself out.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on November 23, 2008, 08:34:38 PM
Quote from: the waterboy on November 23, 2008, 08:31:51 PM
I saw that they let Antonio Regalbuto kick some extra points in the game against Gallaudet. Why not let Blugis take a break and have Regalbuto kick the PATs while Blugis straightens himself out.

Consistency.  Pure and simple.  You don't want to start doing the cup switching routine when it comes to a team like this.  Once Blugis gets back on track, he will be an asset fort he next two years.  He nailed a 42 yard field goal this year, so he has the leg to carry the ball.

-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 23, 2008, 08:52:59 PM
That, plus the 52 man roster limit may not give them the opportunity to carry 2 kickers.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 25, 2008, 12:18:12 PM
How about this scenario:

Wesley knocks off UMHB
W&J wins at Millsaps

Then, we'll see you all at Cameron Stadium on Saturday, Dec. 6th, for a noon kickoff in the Region Final?

Works for me.

Eliminates airplane trips too. (AA likes that!)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on November 25, 2008, 12:26:50 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 25, 2008, 12:18:12 PM
How about this scenario:

Wesley knocks off UMHB
W&J wins at Millsaps

Then, we'll see you all at Cameron Stadium on Saturday, Dec. 6th, for a noon kickoff in the Region Final?

Works for me.

Eliminates airplane trips too. (AA likes that!)

We can all dream, you know!  I'd love to go see another Wolverines game!!

-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 25, 2008, 01:24:40 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 25, 2008, 12:18:12 PM
How about this scenario:

Wesley knocks off UMHB
W&J wins at Millsaps

Then, we'll see you all at Cameron Stadium on Saturday, Dec. 6th, for a noon kickoff in the Region Final?

Works for me.

Eliminates airplane trips too. (AA likes that!)
UMHB can bus to Millsaps.   That eliminates a plane trip, too.   :D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 25, 2008, 01:27:50 PM
Ahh, Ralph beat me to it. :)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 25, 2008, 01:37:05 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 25, 2008, 01:24:40 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 25, 2008, 12:18:12 PM
How about this scenario:

Wesley knocks off UMHB
W&J wins at Millsaps

Then, we'll see you all at Cameron Stadium on Saturday, Dec. 6th, for a noon kickoff in the Region Final?

Works for me.

Eliminates airplane trips too. (AA likes that!)
UMHB can bus to Millsaps.   That eliminates a plane trip, too.   :D

How about busing HSU back to Belton for another game!   ;D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 25, 2008, 01:38:14 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on November 25, 2008, 01:37:05 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 25, 2008, 01:24:40 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 25, 2008, 12:18:12 PM
How about this scenario:

Wesley knocks off UMHB
W&J wins at Millsaps

Then, we'll see you all at Cameron Stadium on Saturday, Dec. 6th, for a noon kickoff in the Region Final?

Works for me.

Eliminates airplane trips too. (AA likes that!)
UMHB can bus to Millsaps.   That eliminates a plane trip, too.   :D

How about busing HSU back to Belton for another game!   ;D

At least Bob's scenario is theoretically possible, Bill.   ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 25, 2008, 01:39:19 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 25, 2008, 01:38:14 PM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on November 25, 2008, 01:37:05 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 25, 2008, 01:24:40 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 25, 2008, 12:18:12 PM
How about this scenario:

Wesley knocks off UMHB
W&J wins at Millsaps

Then, we'll see you all at Cameron Stadium on Saturday, Dec. 6th, for a noon kickoff in the Region Final?

Works for me.

Eliminates airplane trips too. (AA likes that!)
UMHB can bus to Millsaps.   That eliminates a plane trip, too.   :D

How about busing HSU back to Belton for another game!   ;D

At least Bob's scenario is theoretically possible, Bill.   ;)

I thought we were talking about the NCAA.  They may not have thought of this scenario yet.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 25, 2008, 06:25:17 PM
Don't let the bean counters here that!!! ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: footballfan12 on November 25, 2008, 11:37:08 PM
Pat and Ralph,

I may not be such avid D3 fans. But, I do not think a coach is going to bus his team 8+ hours on a bus to play in an NCAA playoff game. So, you guys make zero sense on that one. So, where do you see a bus trip???

Also, not much talk about Millsaps and W&J. Everyone must think Millsaps is just going to roll to another victory. Should be an interesting one? I think it may be one of the longest football games in NCAA playoffs! The ball may be in the air over 100 times combined. I think if Swallow can complete around 70 percent of his passes W&J will win. That being said, W&J does not fair well in games where their QB throws 50+ times, so Curt Jones will need to run the ball effectively.

Last, it will be interesting to see how W&J defends Millsaps. They do not seem to run the ball much but are very effective when they do. It seems to me that they throw a lot of shorter passes in the 7-10 yard range, more of a spread a defense horizontal approach.

Interested to hear what others have to say. Especially the guys that think a coach would bus his players 8+ hours for a playoff game....
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on November 26, 2008, 12:06:33 AM
Quote from: footballfan12 on November 25, 2008, 11:37:08 PM
Pat and Ralph,

  defense horizontal approach.

Interested to hear what others have to say. Especially the guys that think a coach would bus his players 8+ hours for a playoff game....

Um..... the NCAA will only fly teams if the distance is over 500 miles.  So, yeah, a coach may have to bus his team 8 hours if he wants them to play.  Wesley has had some humdingers of a trip this season (Florida, Ohio and upstate NY). 

-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 26, 2008, 12:17:28 AM
Quote from: footballfan12 on November 25, 2008, 11:37:08 PM
Pat and Ralph,

I may not be such avid D3 fans. But, I do not think a coach is going to bus his team 8+ hours on a bus to play in an NCAA playoff game. So, you guys make zero sense on that one. So, where do you see a bus trip???

Also, not much talk about Millsaps and W&J. Everyone must think Millsaps is just going to roll to another victory. Should be an interesting one? I think it may be one of the longest football games in NCAA playoffs! The ball may be in the air over 100 times combined. I think if Swallow can complete around 70 percent of his passes W&J will win. That being said, W&J does not fair well in games where their QB throws 50+ times, so Curt Jones will need to run the ball effectively.

Last, it will be interesting to see how W&J defends Millsaps. They do not seem to run the ball much but are very effective when they do. It seems to me that they throw a lot of shorter passes in the 7-10 yard range, more of a spread a defense horizontal approach.

Interested to hear what others have to say. Especially the guys that think a coach would bus his players 8+ hours for a playoff game....
Welcome footballfan12!

Teamski is right!  Welcome to the peculiar world that is D3 football.   :)  As for football in the ASC, McMurry in Abilene TX busses to Clinton MS 577 miles due east on I-20!  There are lots of stories like that in this part of the country, in the ASC and the SCAC.

Help me HSU fans...what are there between HSU (on the north side of Abilene) and Mississippi College's Robinson Stadium?  Five stop lights?  Three in Abilene to get off the campus and on the I-20 and two when you get to the stadium in Clinton?   :D   

(Glad you asked the question.  If you have any question, dumb or not, email me and I will try to answer it for you.  Building the D3fan base is the most important thing on these websites.  I probably speak for most of the veteran posters, too.)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: MajorDad on November 26, 2008, 12:27:53 AM
Quote from: footballfan12 on November 25, 2008, 11:37:08 PM
Pat and Ralph,

I may not be such avid D3 fans. But, I do not think a coach is going to bus his team 8+ hours on a bus to play in an NCAA playoff game. So, you guys make zero sense on that one. So, where do you see a bus trip???

Also, not much talk about Millsaps and W&J. Everyone must think Millsaps is just going to roll to another victory. Should be an interesting one? I think it may be one of the longest football games in NCAA playoffs! The ball may be in the air over 100 times combined. I think if Swallow can complete around 70 percent of his passes W&J will win. That being said, W&J does not fair well in games where their QB throws 50+ times, so Curt Jones will need to run the ball effectively.

Last, it will be interesting to see how W&J defends Millsaps. They do not seem to run the ball much but are very effective when they do. It seems to me that they throw a lot of shorter passes in the 7-10 yard range, more of a spread a defense horizontal approach.

Interested to hear what others have to say. Especially the guys that think a coach would bus his players 8+ hours for a playoff game....

FBF, I haven't spent any time this week looking at W&J stats and their OPP's. Looking at this past weekend, if this game becomes and aerial show, As was Millsaps game with La Grange, 725yds passing total both teams, i like Millsaps chances in the Red Zone. Even though they gave La Grange 488 total yds, Millsaps had 560 total and scored much more often as depicted by the 51-26 score. It should be something to see for the fans, thats for sure. With all the balls in the air, I think turnovers may dictate the winner of this one...
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Toby Taff on November 26, 2008, 03:22:13 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 26, 2008, 12:17:28 AM
Quote from: footballfan12 on November 25, 2008, 11:37:08 PM
Pat and Ralph,

I may not be such avid D3 fans. But, I do not think a coach is going to bus his team 8+ hours on a bus to play in an NCAA playoff game. So, you guys make zero sense on that one. So, where do you see a bus trip???

Also, not much talk about Millsaps and W&J. Everyone must think Millsaps is just going to roll to another victory. Should be an interesting one? I think it may be one of the longest football games in NCAA playoffs! The ball may be in the air over 100 times combined. I think if Swallow can complete around 70 percent of his passes W&J will win. That being said, W&J does not fair well in games where their QB throws 50+ times, so Curt Jones will need to run the ball effectively.

Last, it will be interesting to see how W&J defends Millsaps. They do not seem to run the ball much but are very effective when they do. It seems to me that they throw a lot of shorter passes in the 7-10 yard range, more of a spread a defense horizontal approach.

Interested to hear what others have to say. Especially the guys that think a coach would bus his players 8+ hours for a playoff game....
Welcome footballfan12!

Teamski is right!  Welcome to the peculiar world that is D3 football.   :)  As for football in the ASC, McMurry in Abilene TX busses to Clinton MS 577 miles due east on I-20!  There are lots of stories like that in this part of the country, in the ASC and the SCAC.

Help me HSU fans...what are there between HSU (on the north side of Abilene) and Mississippi College's Robinson Stadium?  Five stop lights?  Three in Abilene to get off the campus and on the I-20 and two when you get to the stadium in Clinton?   :D   

(Glad you asked the question.  If you have any question, dumb or not, email me and I will try to answer it for you.  Building the D3fan base is the most important thing on these websites.  I probably speak for most of the veteran posters, too.)
Ralph,
if you go up grape you don't have to hit any lights in abilene.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Sader4life on November 26, 2008, 08:13:37 AM
Mark your calendars:
NCAA Division III South Region Final
Saturday 6 December
12 noon CST
#5 University of Mary Hardin-Baylor Crusaders vs #3 Millsaps Majors
Harper Davis Stadium (5,000)

;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 26, 2008, 08:19:35 AM
Quote from: Sader4life on November 26, 2008, 08:13:37 AM
Mark your calendars:
NCAA Division III South Region Final
Saturday 6 December
12 noon CST
#5 University of Mary Hardin-Baylor Crusaders vs #3 Millsaps Majors
Harper Davis Stadium (5,000)

;)

Sader, do you make it a habit to post things that came become "bulletin board material" on these boards?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Sader4life on November 26, 2008, 08:21:50 AM
UMHB is the ONLY team to have won its first round playoff game in each of the last 5 years, and won of only two teams to have played in the Second Round of the playoffs five years straight (Mount Union being the only other one). :D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Toby Taff on November 26, 2008, 08:28:04 AM
I wouldn't be marking anything on my calendar just yet.  Irrespective of the school you support.  I'd be willing to bet that the folks at MUC were marking the calendar for Salem in 2004 when UMHB surprised them and they ended up sitting at home.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Toby Taff on November 26, 2008, 08:30:38 AM
Quote from: Sader4life on November 26, 2008, 08:21:50 AM
UMHB is the ONLY team to have won its first round playoff game in each of the last 5 years, and won of only two teams to have played in the Second Round of the playoffs five years straight (Mount Union being the only other one). :D

Yes, but 2 of the past 4 years they were at home on weekend 3
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: MajorDad on November 26, 2008, 08:45:58 AM
Quote from: mhb8904 AKA Toby Taff on November 26, 2008, 08:28:04 AM
I wouldn't be marking anything on my calendar just yet.  Irrespective of the school you support.  I'd be willing to bet that the folks at MUC were marking the calendar for Salem in 2004 when UMHB surprised them and they ended up sitting at home.

Agree....
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: The Forgotten Man on November 26, 2008, 09:17:37 AM
Quote from: footballfan12 on November 25, 2008, 11:37:08 PM
Pat and Ralph,

I may not be such avid D3 fans. But, I do not think a coach is going to bus his team 8+ hours on a bus to play in an NCAA playoff game. So, you guys make zero sense on that one. So, where do you see a bus trip???

...

Interested to hear what others have to say. Especially the guys that think a coach would bus his players 8+ hours for a playoff game....

Another point of information: Huntingdon and LaGrange have three 9+ hour bus trips for regular season conference games. And my son thought it was great that they only had two to a room for the playoffs. You gotta love football to play in D3.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: wesleydad on November 26, 2008, 12:34:56 PM
sader, that is all nice and everything, but remember that umhb was sent home in 2 of the last 3 years by some team out of dover, delaware.  i think they are called the wesley wolverines, who i believe are one of only 3 teams, whitewater and muc being the others, to play in the region final the last 3 years which i think would trump umhb's 5 straight years of winning in the first round.  wesley has won the first round the last 4 years, not making the playoffs 5 years ago. 

the last i checked wesley was still planning on getting on a plane thursday evening and flying to texas for a football game on saturday.  since they have played umhb 3 years in a row, winning 2 of them, i think they will show up to play, ignoring your guarentee of their demise.  they will not be intimidated by the setting as the seniors have played in 2 semis and 3 region finals, something that umhb can not claim.

2 good teams that know each other likely makes for a good contest with neither team having a lack of respect for the other, unlike some fans.  enjoy the game if you go, but dont be surprized if it doesnt end up the way you expect it to.  i will be there wearing a #13 jersey so stop by and say hi, always nice to meet other fans, even if they are over the top with their support of their team.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: yessir on November 26, 2008, 12:41:53 PM
Quote from: mhb8904 AKA Toby Taff on November 26, 2008, 08:28:04 AM
I wouldn't be marking anything on my calendar just yet.  Irrespective of the school you support.  I'd be willing to bet that the folks at MUC were marking the calendar for Salem in 2004 when UMHB surprised them and they ended up sitting at home.
I totally agree.....I am Crusader through and through but there's a difference between being confident that ur team will perform well and counting your chicken before they hatch.....and ur counting chickens man. I don't care who's playing who....never look forward to the next week....that's when you get beat 'This" week.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: skunks_sidekick on November 28, 2008, 01:47:56 PM
Toby....we STILL don't accept that defeat.......we have hired a high-powered attorney to petition to NCAA to wipe that game off the books!   ;D

Here's to meeting MHB sooner rather than later for the "revenge game". 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Toby Taff on November 28, 2008, 02:53:48 PM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on November 28, 2008, 01:47:56 PM
Toby....we STILL don't accept that defeat.......we have hired a high-powered attorney to petition to NCAA to wipe that game off the books!   ;D

Here's to meeting MHB sooner rather than later for the "revenge game". 
Sorry to dig up that memory, but it seemed apropos. ;D  I could go for a December rematch this year.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: K-Mack on November 28, 2008, 07:50:20 PM
Quote from: Teamski on November 26, 2008, 12:06:33 AM
Quote from: footballfan12 on November 25, 2008, 11:37:08 PMInterested to hear what others have to say. Especially the guys that think a coach would bus his players 8+ hours for a playoff game....

Um..... the NCAA will only fly teams if the distance is over 500 miles.  So, yeah, a coach may have to bus his team 8 hours if he wants them to play. 

In case this isn't totally clear, the NCAA picks up the tab for ALL playoff travel. (a major difference between Division III and NAIA, where schools foot their own bill)

The NCAA's deal is this: They pay for 52 players and 10 coaches/support staff. If the game is more than 500 miles away, they will fly you. If it is less than, they will pay for your buses. Included is per diem for meals, etc.

UMHB and Millsaps are famously close to the 500-mile limit. You might run a search on MapQuest or Google maps and get over 500, and if you use the NCAA's approved mileage calculating software wrong, as it is assumed the committee did when building the brackets in 2006, you could get more than 500. If you use it correctly, you get 491.

That explain it?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Sader4life on November 29, 2008, 07:59:37 AM
Oh K-Mack no-one knows the mileage between UMHB and Millsaps better than Mary-Hardin Baylor fans! Being a football fan in 2006 and a basketball fan in 2008 we have felt the pinch of the "NCAA Mileage calculating software." In 2006, UMHB did not get to host Millsaps in the first round of the playoffs because it was 530 miles from Belton to Jackson. So the NCAA went against their dream of "not pitting conference foes against each other in the first round" and decide to make the ASC look bad and ruin our hopes of having a better record to save an extra dime. Fast forward 2 years and the UMHB Basketball team compiles a phenomenal 25-2 record and cross their fingers possibly hoping to host the First Round of the Tournament with Millsaps and Maryville having to come to Belton. And lo and behold the NCAA suddenly figures that the distance between Belton and Jackson is 491 miles and UMHB is sent by bus to a place that was preiously over 500 miles. Did Millsaps suddenly change the location of their campus? " Are the basketball courts and the football stadium that far apart? I guess this was the one "mishap." I did not ever understand- Are the statements about pitting conference foes against each other and flying teams if the distance is over 500 miles not hard and fast rules and can be manipulated to suit the NCAA needs, please make me understand.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Sader4life on November 29, 2008, 08:07:00 AM
Oh and by the way if my "strong predicition" of a Millsaps and UMHB South Region Final is wrong. I will try to be the first one on here to concede defeat and apologize to those I offended by my outlandish prediction. Am I backing away from what I said ahead of the storm......definitely not that's truly what I believe will happen- I am just man enough to admit when I am wrong..........if I am wrong :)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: frank_ezelle on November 29, 2008, 08:12:25 AM
Fortunately, the football field is now within 500 miles of Belton as well and we will be glad to host the UMHB football team as long as the results are the same as the basketball tournament. :)

Both Millsaps and UMHB have some hard work to do today in order to make that rematch a reality.  BTW, regarding your prediction of a Millsaps-UMHB final, both of those teams should be favored today because of the home field advantage if for no other reason.  With wet weather at Millsaps, I think the key in Jackson will be which team commits the fewest turnovers.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Toby Taff on November 29, 2008, 08:24:19 AM
sader4life,

we may have been the reason they new Millsaps was within the driving distance in 08, because i guarantee they heard it a lot after the 06 debacle.  ;D  beside millsaps is 530 miles if you drive up I35 to I20 and over.  It is not, however, if you drive it like every Texan i've ever met and take 31 to Tyler ad catch i20 there.

As far as this statement goes:
Quote from: Sader4life on November 29, 2008, 08:07:00 AM
Oh and by the way if my "strong predicition" of a Millsaps and UMHB South Region Final is wrong. I will try to be the first one on here to concede defeat and apologize to those I offended by my outlandish prediction.
I don't think outlandish predictions necessarily were the problem.  By all means be a homer, I am, be outlandish if you like, but be respectful.  I'd bet you that I've been a Crusader fan longer than you have, and I have gone off the deep end with predictions, and I have seen the Cru embarrassed in sports when i was talking crap and had to eat my words.  I would like to say I always was respectful, but I can't, at times i came across as a jerk, and your posts about the game came across as dismissive and jerky.  Even yessir said it was egg counting, and he's about as bragadocious for the cru as they come.  i certainly hope the prediction is spot on, I'd just say show some respect when making them.  No need to give a good team bulletin board fodder.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 29, 2008, 10:32:02 AM
Quote from: Sader4life on November 29, 2008, 08:07:00 AM
Oh and by the way if my "strong predicition" of a Millsaps and UMHB South Region Final is wrong. I will try to be the first one on here to concede defeat and apologize to those I offended by my outlandish prediction

Picking the #1 and #2 seeds to meet in the regional finals is hardly outlandish  ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on November 29, 2008, 01:05:43 PM
Not a good start for Wesley, a lost fumble on the first offensive play by Aaron Jackson....  :P

-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on November 29, 2008, 01:09:46 PM
.....Which results in a touchdown for MHB on the subsequent offensive series...

Those turnovers drives me nuts!

-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 29, 2008, 01:21:11 PM
Anyone have a score/time update on Millsaps/W&J? I just watched an entire change of possession and didn't get either of them, nor a scoreboard shot on the video.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on November 29, 2008, 01:27:45 PM
Crusaders up 10-0.  They are overpowering the Wesley defensive line and running effectively.  Wesley held the Cru on a goal-line stand that resulted in the field goal.  Two Wolverines are gimpy already, Santiago and Ward.  The offense really needs to kick in, have a fumble and a 3 and out.

-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on November 29, 2008, 01:34:11 PM
Well, it's getting ugly.  Wesley was driving down the field, got to the 20 and McSweeny fumbled the ball allowing MHB to run it back for another TD.... 17-0 UMBH....  Those turnovers just kill a talented team like Wesley.... :-\

-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 29, 2008, 01:45:11 PM
UMHB, not UMBH, please.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: exmajor on November 29, 2008, 01:47:44 PM
Millsaps is up 14-7 with about 12 8 or so left in the half, W&J is driving the ball now, on Majors 42.  Timeout W&J with a fourth and short to think about.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on November 29, 2008, 01:56:16 PM
MHB  sinks a 45 yard field goal to go up 20-0 with about 5 minutes left in the first half.  Their running game is continuing to be effective.  Wesley's offensive line isn't doing well against the pressure.

-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: exmajor on November 29, 2008, 02:00:19 PM
W&J scores to tie it at 14 with 2:16 to go until the half.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: exmajor on November 29, 2008, 02:01:53 PM
And Millsaps returns the kickoff to the 19 yard line of W&J and a flag comes in at the end to add 15 more to it, 1 and goal from the 9 now.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: exmajor on November 29, 2008, 02:08:31 PM
W&J holds the Majors to 3 and it goes to the half with Millsaps leading 17-14.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on November 29, 2008, 02:10:08 PM
Well, once again, the UMHB running game gets it done, marches down the field and scores another TD with less than a minute to go. 27-0.  Wow.

-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on November 29, 2008, 02:19:49 PM
Well, the first half ends with UMHB leading wesley 27-0.  Three turnovers and lack of offense really killed any chance of Wesley to stay in the game.  This is a repeat of last year where the turnovers completely destroyed the game for the Wolverines.  Tough play by UMHB on both sides of the ball has been the difference.

-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 29, 2008, 02:35:22 PM
Can someone get a message to the Millsaps broadcasters that their mikes are staying live during the timeouts/commercials?

Certainly an interesting first half in Jackson, the Majors' defense needs to step up on this opening W&J drive.

Kurt Jones 81 yds rushing fo W&J in the first half. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on November 29, 2008, 02:42:09 PM
Wesley scores after recovering the ball on the half starting on-side kick and marching down the field. 27-7.

-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 29, 2008, 02:42:54 PM
My bad, Millsaps got a FG on the opening drive to go up 20-14.

W&J dodges a bullet when a receiver is ruled to be down before a fumble, drive straight down the field to take the lead for the first time, 21-20, on a dive by Jones - his second TD.  Millsaps isn't getting much pressure on Swallow and he's having the time to find open receivers.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 29, 2008, 02:46:00 PM
Millsaps gets a good return but stalls on the W&J 35, punts.  The Presidents will take over at their ten. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on November 29, 2008, 02:51:18 PM
MHB drives down the field in it's first possesion of the second half and misses a 30 yard field goal.

-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 29, 2008, 02:56:01 PM
Millsaps gets a big stop on when W&J goes for it on 4th and 7 at the Majors 25 - and gain six on a WR screen that looked like it would go for more.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: exmajor on November 29, 2008, 02:56:36 PM
Big 4th down stop for Millsaps on their own 25, get the ball back with 1 minute left in 3rd and trailing 21-20.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on November 29, 2008, 02:56:46 PM
Wesley goes 3 and out.  MHB starts running down the field, that running game just opening up the line.  Saintz (sp) fumbles the ball down on the Wesley 6 and the Wolverines recover, dodging another lethal bullet.

-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on November 29, 2008, 03:02:10 PM
Yet another interception of McSweeny in Wesley territory.... :'(

-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on November 29, 2008, 03:05:00 PM
....Which once again results in a UMHB TD.....and a missed extra point.  33-7.

-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on November 29, 2008, 03:17:55 PM
A four and out for Wesley on Wesley's side of the line, UMHB nails a 49 yarder.  36-7 UMBH.

-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on November 29, 2008, 03:21:42 PM
My lord.  Yet another fumble, this time by Pennewell, so Wesley looses it's 5th turnover.

-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on November 29, 2008, 03:26:51 PM
.........And results in another UMHB field goal.  39-7 UMHB.  Cheers in the crowd over the Millsaps and WJ game.

-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: exmajor on November 29, 2008, 03:30:35 PM
Majors are going to lose, great season, could not get the offense totally in sync today.  Now UMHB gets another home game next weekend, good luck guys!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on November 29, 2008, 03:33:35 PM
Now it is 6 turnovers for Wesley and another touchdown for UMHB with a fumble recovery and return.  46-7 UMHB.

-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on November 29, 2008, 03:35:45 PM
Poetic justice. Wesley senior return ace, Larry Beavers returns a kick-off return for 86 yards.  46-14.

-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: thewaterboy on November 29, 2008, 03:43:13 PM
well there goes Larry Beavers again. 98 yard for the score. Im going to miss seeing him in a Wolverine uniform. Hopefully we can start watchin him on Sundays  ;D. Its been a great 4 years for the seniors. Losing only 9 games in 4 years. Not what we wanted this year but it was a great run.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 29, 2008, 03:49:34 PM
Congratulations to the Presidents on the big win today.

Congratulations to the Majors on three exceptional years, looking forward to see what 2009 brings.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on November 29, 2008, 03:50:17 PM
And that is it.  Mary Hardin Baylor beats Wesley 46-14 and will meet Washington and Jefferson at home next week.

Congratulations to UMHB.  They were the better team on the field and played one hell of a game.  They played phyisical ball on both sides and wanted that game bad.   6 turnovers for Wesley contributed to a complete route.  Good luck to UMHB in the next round. ;)

-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Toby Taff on November 29, 2008, 03:50:49 PM
Bill,
RooCru has the binoculars you left at the game and will bring them next week
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Sader4life on November 29, 2008, 04:52:47 PM
Quote from: Sader4life on November 26, 2008, 08:13:37 AM
Mark your calendars:
NCAA Division III South Region Final
Saturday 6 December
12 noon CST
#5 University of Mary Hardin-Baylor Crusaders vs #3 Millsaps Majors
Harper Davis Stadium (5,000)

;)
Wow, what a Saturday- just got back from the game and sorry this took so long. But true to my word I admit I was wrong I apologize to all the fans of Washington and Jefferson for under-estimating your team I really didnt see that coming. I was wrong but am definitely not sad about it. So I guess it should now read
NCAA Division III South Region Final
Saturday 6 December
12 noon CST
University of Mary Hardin Baylor Crusaders vs Washington and Jefferson Presidents
Belton Tiger Field
Again I apologize for being wrong
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on November 30, 2008, 12:54:20 PM
Pretty quiet around here.  Everbody must be passed out from the victory/end of season parties.... ;)

I'm still kinda shocked at the woopin' that Wesley got.  I fully expected the Wolverines to go in and clash hard with MHB.  That obviously didn't happen. 

-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: old ends on November 30, 2008, 06:42:48 PM
Quote from: Teamski on November 30, 2008, 12:54:20 PM

I'm still kinda shocked at the woopin' that Wesley got.  I fully expected the Wolverines to go in and clash hard with MHB.  That obviously didn't happen. 

-Ski

Turnovers got ya. How many points did MHBU get from those turnover's that could have gone to Wesley, if they kept the ball???
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: crufootball on November 30, 2008, 06:58:28 PM
I believe the Cru got 35 points off of the turnovers and 3 more on a turnover on downs.

I was wondering, in the Wesley stats it shows that #52 Carlos James was ejected from the game. Was he the player that kicked one of our players on a kickoff return? I was not aware that player received any official punishment but I did hear that Coach Drass took him out of the game?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: wesleydad on November 30, 2008, 07:37:51 PM
crufootball, he was the player removed by the coach.  not sure why it says he was ejected since there was no flag on the play.  35 pts off of turnovers, that will do you in everytime.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on November 30, 2008, 08:06:38 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 30, 2008, 07:37:51 PM
crufootball, he was the player removed by the coach.  not sure why it says he was ejected since there was no flag on the play.  35 pts off of turnovers, that will do you in everytime.

And this wasn't the first year where turnovers curtailed the Wolverine season.  Last year was just as bad.  If they could keep that ball off the ground, they would of been in a far better position, pure and simple.

-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 30, 2008, 08:30:22 PM
Quote from: Teamski on November 30, 2008, 08:06:38 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 30, 2008, 07:37:51 PM
crufootball, he was the player removed by the coach.  not sure why it says he was ejected since there was no flag on the play.  35 pts off of turnovers, that will do you in everytime.

And this wasn't the first year where turnovers curtailed the Wolverine season.  Last year was just as bad.  If they could keep that ball off the ground, they would of been in a far better position, pure and simple.

-Ski

Two of the Wesley fumbles were caused by good tackles.  The killer was when the QB looked like he tried to lateral as he was being hit.  Henry returned that fumble 80 yards.  Wesley might have gotten points on that drive if the QB doesn't try to pitch.  That was a very big play in the game.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: crufootball on November 30, 2008, 08:34:38 PM
thanks wesleydad, i thought that was the case. Kudos to Coach for taking care of the problem on his on.

Glad to hear the trip home was a good one for you and I am glad your son got to get on the field in his last game. I obviously don't know what went on but I was shocked midway through the season when I heard he was not playing. He was a great player both as a receiver and quarterback.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: thewaterboy on December 01, 2008, 04:41:46 PM
yep 35 points off turn overs, wont help you get a win. That was the WORST game since Del Val for the Wolverines, and that was really bad. UMHB played excellently and Wesley would have had to have played a MUCH better game to knock off the Cru. A Jax doesnt seem to hold onto the ball in the beginning of games for some reason. Blugis seemed to be kicking better, from what I heard. UMHB was just a better team in that game.

Anyway, since my Wolverines are out of the playoffs, I would like to say go Cru! You guys can make the South Region proud.

As always Go Wesley and Go Cru!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: wesleydad on December 01, 2008, 06:42:08 PM
crufootball, thanks for the compliments.  you and many others were shocked by the way things went this year.  as far as what went on, i have some information and i have some opinions, neither of which matters now because it is over.  he had an excellent career and has nothing to hang his head over.  jason was complimented as much this year for how he handled the situation as he was when he played receiver or QB.  the facts prove that the team was better last year  against a tougher schedule than it was this year, enough said.  he continued to do what was asked of him eventhough he was very disappointed with the situation, always a team player.  made his mom and i proud. :D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: umhb2001 on December 01, 2008, 07:19:54 PM
Do any of you on here know where to find some Washington and Jefferson video?  Our CBS affiliate carries some, but I can't find a station in Virginia that carries W&J video.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on December 01, 2008, 08:49:56 PM
W&J isn't in Virginia.

It's in Pennsylvania, southwest of Pittsburgh.

But don't expect to find any video there either.
If it's not D-I or NFL, or Friday night high school (with promo signs), you'll be lucky to find the scores.
Title: South Region Playoffs
Post by: Sader4life on December 06, 2008, 08:47:29 AM
I do not think that Washington and Jefferson have faced a defense anywhere close to the caliber of Mary Hardin-Baylor's defense. Bobby Swallow is a great quarter-back and thoroughly deserving of his Second Team Preseason All-American honor. 275-413 passing for 3,551 yards and 36 touchdowns on the
season is pretty impressive. But I can't help but think if he has already been sacked 25 times this season he may be in trouble today, also expect the 5 INTs on the season number to go up. All the Saenz point to a big win for the Cru today. Call it confident, cocky, arrogant, dishing crow, but I will be surprised if the Cru does not win by three touchdowns today. Sure W&J is in the top 8 out of 239 teams in Division III (thats the top 3.35% of the DIII class) and had to be a good team to get here but in my opinion they are nowhere near UMHB's level and are going to struggle as in the past with a Texas team.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on December 06, 2008, 01:29:45 PM
 :o  Gah..... Well, it's looking quite ugly for W&J.  It's already 21-0 with 7 minutes left in the first quarter.   It's going to be a very long game.

-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: cowboyfan on December 06, 2008, 01:33:29 PM
Great Job UMHB keep it up. This cowboy is rooting for you.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Toby Taff on December 06, 2008, 02:09:04 PM
UMHB is up 42-7 in the 2nd qtr.  OUCH
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: crualum75 on December 06, 2008, 02:33:06 PM
Playoff update

UMHB    49
W&J      7

at the half!!!
Cru hitting on all cylinders right now.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: umhbalum on December 06, 2008, 02:37:41 PM
Wow it sounds like the CRU is playing well on both sides of the ball.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 06, 2008, 03:33:25 PM
UMHB 63-7 late 4th qtr.
Title: Re: South Region Playoffs
Post by: Sader4life on December 08, 2008, 01:55:11 AM
Quote from: Sader4life on December 06, 2008, 08:47:29 AM
I do not think that Washington and Jefferson have faced a defense anywhere close to the caliber of Mary Hardin-Baylor's defense. Bobby Swallow is a great quarter-back and thoroughly deserving of his Second Team Preseason All-American honor. 275-413 passing for 3,551 yards and 36 touchdowns on the
season is pretty impressive. But I can't help but think if he has already been sacked 25 times this season he may be in trouble today, also expect the 5 INTs on the season number to go up. All the Saenz point to a big win for the Cru today. Call it confident, cocky, arrogant, dishing crow, but I will be surprised if the Cru does not win by three touchdowns today. Sure W&J is in the top 8 out of 239 teams in Division III (thats the top 3.35% of the DIII class) and had to be a good team to get here but in my opinion they are nowhere near UMHB's level and are going to struggle as in the past with a Texas team.
I apologize I was very wrong so very wrong, I probably need to stop all this prediction stuff altogether . This Crusader team is for real, and I know I am biased but I am pretty sure they had the best performance out of the four winning teams on Saturday. Its not to late to hop on the UMHB bandwagon people and all are welcome.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: wesleydad on December 08, 2008, 07:05:55 PM
sader, there cant be any room left on the bandwagon, your ego takes up all the room ;).
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on December 08, 2008, 07:18:33 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on December 08, 2008, 07:05:55 PM
sader, there cant be any room left on the bandwagon, your ego takes up all the room ;).

Wesleydad,  That made me laugh.  +1
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: wesleydad on December 08, 2008, 07:30:04 PM
bill, thanks for the karma.  besides, i am not sure if the umhb supporters that i have met, roocru, crualum39, toby taff, and several others, are on the same bandwagon as sader.

i am cheering for umhb as i have seen them for 3 straight years and i know how good they are.  i believe they will win this game if they keep playing as they have the past 2 weeks, no fear of uww, take it to them as they have wesley and wash and jeff.  if i did not already have my money spent on a trip to the stagg and then off to nashville for another week and a half i would be getting on a plane to see the game.

good luck to the cru.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Toby Taff on December 08, 2008, 08:21:00 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on December 08, 2008, 07:30:04 PM
bill, thanks for the karma.  besides, i am not sure if the umhb supporters that i have met, roocru, crualum39, toby taff, and several others, are on the same bandwagon as sader.

i am cheering for umhb as i have seen them for 3 straight years and i know how good they are.  i believe they will win this game if they keep playing as they have the past 2 weeks, no fear of uww, take it to them as they have wesley and wash and jeff.  if i did not already have my money spent on a trip to the stagg and then off to nashville for another week and a half i would be getting on a plane to see the game.

good luck to the cru.
Wesleydad,

We prefer to take our own wagons. ;D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Sader4life on December 09, 2008, 08:15:51 AM
Quote from: wesleydad on December 08, 2008, 07:05:55 PM
sader, there cant be any room left on the bandwagon, your ego takes up all the room ;).
Wesleydad that was pretty funny, like I am serious, you made me smile. I usually have a comeback to every comment that is directed at me, but that was just too clever- I am at a loss for words.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on December 09, 2008, 08:35:04 AM
Quote from: Sader4life on December 09, 2008, 08:15:51 AM
Quote from: wesleydad on December 08, 2008, 07:05:55 PM
sader, there cant be any room left on the bandwagon, your ego takes up all the room ;).
Wesleydad that was pretty funny, like I am serious, you made me smile. I usually have a comeback to every comment that is directed at me, but that was just too clever- I am at a loss for words.

You're at a loss for words?  I'm disappointed.  :D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on December 09, 2008, 08:55:15 AM
Good luck, Cru.

Win it all.  I really AM hoping you do.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Sader4life on December 09, 2008, 11:04:40 AM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on December 09, 2008, 08:35:04 AM
Quote from: Sader4life on December 09, 2008, 08:15:51 AM
Quote from: wesleydad on December 08, 2008, 07:05:55 PM
sader, there cant be any room left on the bandwagon, your ego takes up all the room ;).
Wesleydad that was pretty funny, like I am serious, you made me smile. I usually have a comeback to every comment that is directed at me, but that was just too clever- I am at a loss for words.

You're at a loss for words?  I'm disappointed.  :D
Yeah I am pretty disappointed to. I was going to allude to the fact that Wesley isn't playing anyone this week or remind him that we beat his team, but that would have been mean and though they lost they were very classy about, didnt make excuses about the loss and left with my dignity and respect, so I couldn't bring myself to do something like that. I do admit if there was a D3football.com Post Patterns All American Jerk list I probably would be voted Team Captain and probably deservingly but know that attack people when they make weak excuses for why UMHB lost, or say something negative about UMHB and the exact opposite happens. Thats why I get along so well with my companions from Abilene :).  Do I go over the top sometimes....... of course, do I enjoy being the jerk of d3football.com........I will leave you to answer that but lets just say I like to keep things interesting- and just to stir the hornets nest. I predict UMHB beats UW-Whitewater by three touchdowns  ;D ha ha ha.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: SaintsFAN on December 09, 2008, 12:31:37 PM
if you are designated "jerk of D3football.com", then you won't be around much to enjoy your notoriety.  Pat just suspeneded another guy in the East Region and I'm sure that when he gets around to your posts, he'll do the same if he views you as a troll on this board.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: wesleydad on December 09, 2008, 07:09:54 PM
sader, i am glad that i was able to make a couple of people smile.  i would not have been offended by any comments about the beat down.  we stunk out the joint that day, no excuses.  the weather was nice, the field was good, and on that day your team was better, much better.  the band was a about half full i think due to the holiday and they didnt play during plays.  i didnt notice the cheerleaders from across the field so i guess they werent improperly dressed.  the refs didnt miss any calls except for the personal foul that coach drass took into his own hands by removing the offending player from the field.  i wish they would have come up with some phantom down by contact on some of the fumbles, but i still dont think it would have mattered. 

i have seen umhb for 3 years now and have the utmost respect for them.  i am openly cheering for them this week because i have met several posters from there and i enjoy talking to them and consider them friends from afar.  you are just like muledaddy on the centenial site, a strong supporter of your team who occasionally offends others with your bluntness.  in a p c world that doenst always fly.  i have been known to do that once in awhile myself.

good luck this week, enjoy it, i know we did the 2 years we lost to uww, the semis is a great place to be, but not good enough.  go cru.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: thewaterboy on December 11, 2008, 04:51:26 PM
Id like to see the Cru walk away with this game. I think the score will be 30-27 Cru. I dont like seeing Mount and Whitewater in Virginia every year. Lets mix it up a little
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Crusader2011 on December 12, 2008, 12:56:16 AM
Quote from: Sader4life on December 09, 2008, 11:04:40 AM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on December 09, 2008, 08:35:04 AM
Quote from: Sader4life on December 09, 2008, 08:15:51 AM
Quote from: wesleydad on December 08, 2008, 07:05:55 PM
sader, there cant be any room left on the bandwagon, your ego takes up all the room ;).
Wesleydad that was pretty funny, like I am serious, you made me smile. I usually have a comeback to every comment that is directed at me, but that was just too clever- I am at a loss for words.

You're at a loss for words?  I'm disappointed.  :D
Yeah I am pretty disappointed to. I was going to allude to the fact that Wesley isn't playing anyone this week or remind him that we beat his team, but that would have been mean and though they lost they were very classy about, didnt make excuses about the loss and left with my dignity and respect, so I couldn't bring myself to do something like that. I do admit if there was a D3football.com Post Patterns All American Jerk list I probably would be voted Team Captain and probably deservingly but know that attack people when they make weak excuses for why UMHB lost, or say something negative about UMHB and the exact opposite happens. Thats why I get along so well with my companions from Abilene :).  Do I go over the top sometimes....... of course, do I enjoy being the jerk of d3football.com........I will leave you to answer that but lets just say I like to keep things interesting- and just to stir the hornets nest. I predict UMHB beats UW-Whitewater by three touchdowns  ;D ha ha ha.
Oh yes T, you get along just smashingly with the Abilene folks.
And you're right, UMHB is usually very dignified when we lose. What irks me is when some other teams blame our fans, or in last weeks case, the band for the loses. I remember once last year we beat someone by almost 40 points and the coach said it was our fans fault.
Seriously?
And if you weren't so spirited, I might be just a tad disappointed. In fact, I'm a little shocked you didn't have to say anything in return. Losing your comebacks?
Wesleydad- I'm glad that you like us. :) We're really not that bad once you get to know us.
GO Cru!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Sader4life on December 15, 2008, 11:37:12 AM
Congratulations to the Warhawks you were the better team on Saturday. Disappointing end to the season for the Mary Hardin-Baylor Crusaders considering the goals the team had set. No excuses we were just hands down beaten on Saturday but keep your heads up and bounce back next year.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 28, 2009, 04:36:12 PM
First Regional Rankings...

South Region
1. Wesley 3-0 7-0  Pool B
2. Mississippi College 6-0 6-1  Pool A
3. Washington and Jefferson 7-0 7-0  Pool A/C
4. Hampden-Sydney 8-0 8-0  Pool A
5. Mary Hardin-Baylor 4-1 6-1  Pool C
6. Thomas More 7-0 7-0   Pool A/C
7. Centre 6-1 6-1   Pool A
8. Huntingdon 3-0 6-1  Pool B
9. Dickinson 6-1 6-1  Pool A
10. DePauw 5-1 5-1  Pool C

I have assumed that higher seeds will win out.  Centre has the win over DPU.  The Centennial is a mess.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on October 28, 2009, 04:39:58 PM
Pat sent this to the NCAA, which should get Huntingdon up there some:

Huntingdon informed us that they had been granted a waiver to count SLIAC opponents as in-region after the conference broke up this spring. If that's the case, then Huntingdon should be 5-0 in-region (Westminster, Greenville).
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 01, 2009, 10:05:33 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 28, 2009, 04:36:12 PM
First Regional Rankings...

South Region
1. Wesley 3-0 7-0  Pool B  Beat Salsibury 30-12
2. Mississippi College 6-0 6-1  Pool A/C  Lost to HPU 38-24
3. Washington and Jefferson 7-0 7-0  Pool C  Lost to TMC 14-7
4. Hampden-Sydney 8-0 8-0  Pool A/C     Open Date
5. Mary Hardin-Baylor 4-1 6-1  Pool C/A  Beat ETBU 52-10
6. Thomas More 7-0 7-0   Pool A   Beat W&J  14-7
7. Centre 6-1 6-1   Pool A/C      Beat Rhodes 37-10
8. Huntingdon 3-0 6-1  Pool B   Beat LaGrange 51-10
9. Dickinson 6-1 6-1  Pool A/C   Beat Muhlenberg 17-16
10. DePauw 5-1 5-1  Pool C/A    Beat Birmingham Southern 35-21

I have assumed that higher seeds will win out.  Centre has the win over DPU.  The Centennial is a mess.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 02, 2009, 12:00:20 PM
Question now is how high does TMC jump with the win over W&J.  They probably jump UMHB, whose loss to MC now looks worse thanks to the Chocs' shocking defeat at the hands of HPU.  

Based on what I saw in San Antonio this weekend, the Centre-Trinity match on Saturday is going to be interesting.  It looks like the Colonels finally got their post-Ostermann offense going and Trinity has to come back from a humbling at the hands of Asuza Pacific to play spoiler, an unfamiliar role. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 02, 2009, 01:09:39 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 02, 2009, 12:32:58 PM
interesting fact:  Thomas More can't host a Playoff Game on Campus in 2009.  The Bank of Kentucky Stadium is not finished ---

WHAT???  Not FINISHED?!!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 02, 2009, 03:32:35 PM
OK, so I've been corrected on the situation at Thomas More... They CAN host a playoff game at Bank of Kentucky Stadium.  There are stands there, along with clocks etc.  What isn't done is the offices in the stadium.

Thats what I get for posting hearsay..
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 02, 2009, 03:45:25 PM
Is there a press box???

I'm just asking in case the Presidents get bounced early and Pat needs us to call a game on the internet....

I'm not doing ANY volunteer work that would require a 5 hour drive only to have to sit outside in mid-November....
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 02, 2009, 04:08:22 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 02, 2009, 03:45:25 PM
Is there a press box???

I'm just asking in case the Presidents get bounced early and Pat needs us to call a game on the internet....

I'm not doing ANY volunteer work that would require a 5 hour drive only to have to sit outside in mid-November....

Yessir... that part is done.  I believe... just the offices underneath (they have it set up like W&J's ---with windows on the lower level and doors etc) that aren't quite finished.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: hurley on November 02, 2009, 08:56:16 PM
What is the deal with delaware and hosting playoffs? NFL gaming situation
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 03, 2009, 12:36:16 PM
Quote from: hurley on November 02, 2009, 08:56:16 PM
What is the deal with delaware and hosting playoffs? NFL gaming situation

there is no "deal" --- its a non-issue now
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 04, 2009, 03:55:09 PM
SOUTH REGION -- Nov 4, 2009
1. Wesley 5-0 8-0   Pool B
2. Hampden-Sydney 8-0 8-0  ODAC Pool A/C
3. Thomas More 8-0 8-0          PresAC Pool A
4. Huntingdon 4-0 7-1                Pool B
5. Mississippi College 6-1 6-2      ASC Pool A/C
6. Mary Hardin-Baylor 5-1 7-1      ASC Pool C/A
7. Centre 7-1 7-1                           SCAC Pool A/C
8. Dickinson 7-1 7-1                       CC Pool A/C
9. Washington and Jefferson 7-1 7-1   Pres AC Pool C
10. DePauw 6-1 6-1    SCAC Pool C/A

Okay Hawks88, looks like a first round home game is a possibility.

http://www.d3football.com/dailydose/2009/11/04/ncaa-regional-rankings-take-2/
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: @d3jason on November 04, 2009, 03:59:31 PM
It will be interesting to see how Hampden-Sydney fares against Salisbury this weekend. They really need that game to get (and a win over RMC next week, of course) if they want be stay home the first couple weeks.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 04, 2009, 04:03:41 PM
Thomas More has a road game against the North's #3 team in week 11 --- which could propel them to #2 in South (provided they take care of business this weekend)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Gray Fox on November 05, 2009, 06:58:51 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 02, 2009, 01:09:39 PM
Quote from: SaintsFAN on November 02, 2009, 12:32:58 PM
interesting fact:  Thomas More can't host a Playoff Game on Campus in 2009.  The Bank of Kentucky Stadium is not finished ---

WHAT???  Not FINISHED?!!!
Have you checked with the FDIC? :P
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 05, 2009, 07:19:21 PM
WOW... You went there.  They may have to!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 13, 2009, 11:07:11 PM
Sunday on a special "Selection Sunday" edition of "In the HuddLLe" at http://InTheHuddLLe.com, we will be joined by Joy Solomen, this year's NCAA Division III Football Championship Committee Chairwoman.  She will discuss the bracketing process -- from selection of the Field of 32 to the placement and seeding of those teams.

In order to make the interview more interactive, we would ask those with questions to post those questions between 3:30pm EST and 5:00pm EST to the "East Region Playoffs" message board on Sunday (following the release of the brackets).  We will not just focus on the Liberty League team in the mix or even just the East Region -- we will discuss any surprises and concerns that become evident once the brackets are released.

In addition to Chairwoman Solomen, we will interview Liberty League Commissioner Timothy Danehy, speak with the coach of the Liberty League team that wins tomorrow's League Championship Game and discuss the team the Liberty League participant will face.  Please join us starting at 7:30pm EST at http://InTheHuddLLe.com (or for the archive starting at around 10:00pm EST).
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 15, 2009, 05:29:04 PM
We just finished our "In the HuddLLe" interview with Dr. Joy Solomen, Chairwoman of the NCAA Division III Football Championship Committee.  I have to admit, I learned some things during the call -- and I'm sure readers will want to hear what she said about strength of schedule issues, the East as a whole and the way to avoid Mount Union at the top of the East Bracket every year.

Tune in at http://InTheHuddLLe.com at 7:30pm EST for the interview and a lot more.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 26, 2010, 12:54:23 PM
First try at a South Region Bracket

1) Wesley "B"
2) UMHB "A"
3) TMC "A"
4) HSC :"A" 
5) HSU Pool C bid but likely paired with UMHB in the first round
6) DPU "A"  (First round at TMC)
7) USAC "A"
8) East Region team moved to South Region.

My Pool B's are Wesley, CRWU and an undefeated Maritime.

CWRU can be moved into the East if needed to fill the bracket

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: HSC85 on October 26, 2010, 01:21:17 PM
That is a great "logical" way to put the bracket together.  One question that I would have is what happens to the CC, winner a possible undefeated Ursinus?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 26, 2010, 03:33:45 PM
Quote from: HSC85 on October 26, 2010, 01:21:17 PM
That is a great "logical" way to put the bracket together.  One question that I would have is what happens to the CC, winner a possible undefeated Ursinus?
I  think that they may be moved East.

When I wrote that, I was thinking that SUNY-Maritime might make a good #8 for #1 Wesley.


Okay, this.


1) Wesley "B"
2) UMHB "A"
3) TMC "A"
4) HSC :"A"
5) CC Champ
5) HSU Pool C bid but likely paired with UMHB in the first round
6) DPU "A"  (First round at TMC)
8) USAC "A"

Does the CC get a first round game in the "East" Region?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: DPU3619 on October 26, 2010, 06:30:22 PM
I've been chewing the cud on the DePauw situation pretty heavy since Saturday.  Do they stay in the South this year?  Does the NCAA move them to the North and still pair them with TMC again like last season? TMC could easily go East, too.

DePauw & TMC are tough because they're so close to all those North region schools.  There's probably 10 playoff teams that are within driving distance of both schools.  Meanwhile, TMC is the only school in the bracket Ralph constructed that DePauw can drive to.  Everybody else is too far.  Now we're starting to assume that people are beating other people, which is assuming a lot.  However, it's a lot cheaper to move both TMC & DePauw to the North and drive them to Witt or North Central, for example, or even have Trine or IWU come to them. 

Just thinking out loud here....
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 26, 2010, 07:03:09 PM
Quote from: Wes Anderson on October 26, 2010, 06:30:22 PM
I've been chewing the cud on the DePauw situation pretty heavy since Saturday.  Do they stay in the South this year?  Does the NCAA move them to the North and still pair them with TMC again like last season? TMC could easily go East, too.

DePauw & TMC are tough because they're so close to all those North region schools.  There's probably 10 playoff teams that are within driving distance of both schools.  Meanwhile, TMC is the only school in the bracket Ralph constructed that DePauw can drive to.  Everybody else is too far.  Now we're starting to assume that people are beating other people, which is assuming a lot.  However, it's a lot cheaper to move both TMC & DePauw to the North and drive them to Witt or North Central, for example, or even have Trine or IWU come to them.  

Just thinking out loud here....
When does the NCAA want to start paying for flights?  Second round games?  That is what we have seen in the ASC.  E.g., the HSU-UMHB winner requires a flight for a second round game.  Someone has to fly.  Why not the DPU-TMC winner in the second round either fly to or host the second round fly-in?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on October 27, 2010, 05:58:38 PM
First regional rankings from NCAA:

SOUTH REGION In-Region Record Overall Record
 
1. Hampden-Sydney 7-0 7-0
2. Mary Hardin-Baylor 6-0 7-0
3. Wesley 4-0 7-0
4. DePauw 7-0 7-0
5. Thomas More 7-0 7-0
6. Ursinus 7-0 7-0
7. Salisbury 4-1 6-1
8. Hardin-Simmons 7-1 7-1
9. Randolph-Macon 7-1 7-1
10. Washington and Jefferson 5-2 5-2
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: wesleydad on October 27, 2010, 06:41:14 PM
as i dont have all the info, still it seems odd that wesley is at 3, looks like due to the fact that they only have 4 in region wins compared to hampden's 7 and umhb's 6.  then how do you explain salisbury ahead of either hardin simmons or macon.  as some have said this will work itself out, still looks funny to me.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: crufootball on October 27, 2010, 07:32:11 PM
Stuff like this never stops surprising me, I don't know why I expect things like regional rankings or playoff seeding to make sense but every year it surprises when stuff like this happens. Things shouldn't have to work themselves out, if team A is the best team they should be ranked #1 right now and right now Wesley has seemed to impress everyone with the exception of whoever made the South region ranking. And I know in a week or two things probably will work themselves out and Wesley will be #1 which will make no sense by these rankings because that will only mean they beat teams they should have as the #3 team.

PS Excuse me for the small rant but I figure if I get it out my system now I might avoid a larger one when it is announced that UMHB will be facing HSU in the first round....again.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Toby Taff on October 27, 2010, 08:25:29 PM
Quote from: crufootball on October 27, 2010, 07:32:11 PM
PS Excuse me for the small rant but I figure if I get it out my system now I might avoid a larger one when it is announced that UMHB will be facing HSU in the first round....again.
No.  the bitterness will still be there.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on October 27, 2010, 08:28:26 PM
When I first saw the rankings I almost threw up  :o, but on seeing UWW and MUC's rankings, I knew that things would sort themselves out.... ;)  Whew......

-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on October 31, 2010, 11:49:31 PM
 I just looked at the updated strength of schedules and Wesley jumped all the way up to # 5 after yesterdays game. They don't have a week to week set-up like the poll so it's hard to see what teams have chnaged by comparison this week... But it will certainly change over the next two weeks.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on November 01, 2010, 08:43:24 AM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on October 31, 2010, 11:49:31 PM
I just looked at the updated strength of schedules and Wesley jumped all the way up to # 5 after yesterdays game. They don't have a week to week set-up like the poll so it's hard to see what teams have chnaged by comparison this week... But it will certainly change over the next two weeks.

....And if Kean wins next week, they will be 6-3 going into Dover....  ;)

-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 01, 2010, 12:16:17 PM
IMHO, Wesley has locked up the Pool B bid.

Now they are contending for the #1 seed in the bracket.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: crualum55 on November 01, 2010, 01:05:43 PM
How is Hampden-Sydney in front of Mary Hardin-Baylor in the South region right now?  Is it only because they are 8-0 right now compard to the Cru's 7-0?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 01, 2010, 01:11:28 PM
FAQ  Playoffs (http://www.d3football.com/interactive/faq/playoffs).

Won-loss record is not the only criterion.

Please check out the FAQ link above.

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: crualum55 on November 01, 2010, 01:20:22 PM
Thanks for the link  I wish I'd had know about that when I played.  It still looks as though UMHB is ahead of Hampden-Sydney in a few of the criteria.  I did not look through schedules at the opponents so I don't have all the facts.  There are still a few weeks to go though.  Although I don't know that it benefits UMHB to play at home more.  They play very strong on the road during playoff games.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 01, 2010, 01:43:36 PM
You don't have to look through schedules at opponents (although we would certainly love it if you did). We do the NCAA's calculations for you:

http://www.d3football.com/seasons/2010/schedule?tmpl=sos-template

Keep in mind this is now through this week's games, while the ranking is last weeks ranking.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 03, 2010, 03:23:25 PM
Latest regional rankings posted:
http://d3blogs.com/d3football/2010/11/03/ncaas-second-regional-rankings/
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Toby Taff on November 03, 2010, 03:33:40 PM
They look more normal.  Glad to see HSU higher up the list.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 03, 2010, 04:04:07 PM
Quote from: Toby Taff on November 03, 2010, 03:33:40 PM
They look more normal.  Glad to see HSU higher up the list.


South Region
1. Wesley 5-0 8-0
2. Mary Hardin-Baylor 7-0 8-0
3. Hampden-Sydney 8-0 8-0
4. DePauw 8-0 8-0
5. Thomas More 8-0 8-0
6. Hardin-Simmons 8-1 8-1
7. Ursinus 7-1 7-1
8. Salisbury 4-2 6-2
9. Randolph-Macon 7-1 7-1
10. Washington and Lee 6-2 6-2

Looks like another UMHB/HSU first round meeting.

Key games ahead include the ODAC showdowns HSC at W&L this week and HSC and RMC next week.

Ursinus still must beat Muhlenberg to stay out of a 2-loss tie situation in the Centennial Conference.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: @d3jason on November 03, 2010, 04:44:17 PM
Does Wesley get sent to the east this year? (assuming they beat Kean next week.)

It looks like the Wheaton/North Central winner could steal away the North number one seed from Mount Union.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: thewaterboy on November 03, 2010, 09:00:40 PM
Maybe Mount gets shipped east and wesley stays south if Wheaton/North Central has #1 (is that even possible?)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ryan Tipps on November 03, 2010, 09:08:25 PM
Definitely possible, among other things that could keep Wesley in the South. Assuming all teams win out, the chips could fall in a variety of ways.

The three most likely scenarios I see are:

North-South-East-West
Mount-UMHB-Wesley-UWW
UWW-Wesley-Mount-St. Thomas
CCIW winner-Wesley-Mount-UWW

In Kickoff 2010, I predicted Wesley winning the East Region, so I'm hoping they get shipped there. :)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 06, 2010, 06:24:58 PM
Updated thru Nov 6th

South Region
1. Wesley 5-0 8-0   Pool B (open date)
2. Mary Hardin-Baylor 7-0 8-0  8-0 / 9-0 Clinched Pool A today
3. Hampden-Sydney 8-0 8-0  8-1/8-1 Pool C  after today's loss to W&L
4. DePauw 8-0 8-0  9-0 /9-0  SCAC Pool A
5. Thomas More 8-0 8-0 9-0 /9-0 Clinched Pres AC Pool A
6. Hardin-Simmons 8-1 8-1  (open date)
7. Ursinus 7-1 7-1 7-2/ 7-2 Lost to Muhlenberg which got the CC Pool A Bid
8. Salisbury 4-2 6-2 (open date)
9. Randolph-Macon 7-1 7-1  7-2 /7-2  Lost to Bridgewater
10. Washington and Lee 6-2 6-2  7-2 /7-2 ODAC Pool A with the win over H-SC

Still looks like another UMHB/HSU first round meeting.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: algernon on November 07, 2010, 10:11:31 AM
So, these are the South teams that look like they will (or might) get an NCAA bid (along with their current record and my projection of their regional ranking in tomorrow's NCAA ranking:

1.   Wesley 5-0 8-0                     Pool B
2.   Mary Hardin-Baylor 8-0 9-0       Pool A
3.   DePauw 9-0 9-0                      Pool A
4.   Thomas More 9-0 9-0                 Pool A   
5.   Hampden-Sydney 8-1 8-1       Pool C
6.   Hardin-Simmons 8-1 8-1       Pool C
7.   Salisbury 4-2 6-2                  Pool B
8.   Muhlenburg   7-1  7-2           Pool A
9.   Washington and Lee 7-2 7-2     Pool A
NA   CNU   5-4  5-4                      Pool A

I'm not clear on whether Hampden-Sydney or Hardin-Simmons is the team most likely to get the #5 spot.  These two teams are certainly competing for a Pool C bid, with one or the other possibly left out.  If both teams win their last game (HSC hosts RMC!), and both actually get a Pool C bid, than I'm wondering what others think is the likelihood of the following first-round schedule matchups (and I've put final regional/overall record, if they win out, in parentheses):

CNU (6-4, 6-4) to Wesley (6-0, 9-0)
Hardin-Simmons (9-1, 9-1) to Mary Hardin-Baylor (9-0 / 10-0)
North Region team () to DePauw (10-0, 10-0)
W&L (8-2, 8-2) to Thomas More  (10-0, 10-0)
Muhlenburg (5-2, 7-2) to Delaware Valley (9-1, 9-1)
Salisbury (5-2, 7-2) to Hampden-Sydney (9-1, 9-1)

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 07, 2010, 03:10:43 PM
Quote from: algernon on November 07, 2010, 10:11:31 AM
So, these are the South teams that look like they will (or might) get an NCAA bid (along with their current record and my projection of their regional ranking in tomorrow's NCAA ranking:

1.   Wesley 5-0 8-0                     Pool B
2.   Mary Hardin-Baylor 8-0 9-0       Pool A
3.   DePauw 9-0 9-0                      Pool A
4.   Thomas More 9-0 9-0                 Pool A   
5.   Hampden-Sydney 8-1 8-1       Pool C
6.   Hardin-Simmons 8-1 8-1       Pool C
7.   Salisbury 4-2 6-2                  Pool B
8.   Muhlenburg   7-1  7-2           Pool A
9.   Washington and Lee 7-2 7-2     Pool A
NA   CNU   5-4  5-4                      Pool A

I'm not clear on whether Hampden-Sydney or Hardin-Simmons is the team most likely to get the #5 spot.  These two teams are certainly competing for a Pool C bid, with one or the other possibly left out.  If both teams win their last game (HSC hosts RMC!), and both actually get a Pool C bid, than I'm wondering what others think is the likelihood of the following first-round schedule matchups (and I've put final regional/overall record, if they win out, in parentheses):

CNU (6-4, 6-4) to Wesley (6-0, 9-0)
Hardin-Simmons (9-1, 9-1) to Mary Hardin-Baylor (9-0 / 10-0)
North Region team () to DePauw (10-0, 10-0)
W&L (8-2, 8-2) to Thomas More  (10-0, 10-0)
Muhlenburg (5-2, 7-2) to Delaware Valley (9-1, 9-1)
Salisbury (5-2, 7-2) to Hampden-Sydney (9-1, 9-1)


HSC was #5 in the South Region before the loss to W&L. I wonder how far that they drop in the final Pool C assessment.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: algernon on November 07, 2010, 03:27:48 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 07, 2010, 03:10:43 PM
HSC was #5 in the South Region before the loss to W&L. I wonder how far that they drop in the final Pool C assessment.

Actually, the ranking I included in my earlier post was just my projection of what tomorrow's ranking might look like.  The most recent ranking has HSC at #3:  http://www.ncaa.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/110310aaa.html

HSC was #1 in the South Region in the October 27 NCAA ranking.

Then they beat Guilford by 29 points, while Wesley defeated Salisbury by 3 points and Mary Hardin-Baylor defeated Howard Paine by 42 points, and they dropped to #3 (behind #1 Wesley and #2 Mary Hardin-Baylor) in the South Region in the November 3 poll.  

Given HSC's first loss of the season on Saturday, to W&L, I'm figuring they'll drop from #3 to #5 or #6.  They've got a win over Salisbury under their belt.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 07, 2010, 03:47:06 PM
Sorry, my misunderstanding..
Geography trumps seeding in the South Region.

Nevertheless this is what the  bracket looks like to me this Sunday.

Wesley vs CNU
Muhlenberg vs W&L

TMC vs DPU
UMHB vs HSU
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: algernon on November 07, 2010, 03:53:25 PM
Well, I think that both Hampden-Sydney and Salisbury have an excellent shot at a bid, if they win out.  And, if both teams get a bid (along with Hardin-Simmons), then there will be 10 teams from the South Region in the tournament .... In that case, I think we might have DePauw hosting a North team and another South Region team traveling to play Delaware Valley or perhaps an Ohio team.

Actually, it's sort of funny that the South Region's Muhlenburg would travel south to visit the "East Region's" Delaware Valley.  (With teams from Pennsylvania to Maine, the East Region seems like it should be renamed the "Northeast Region".)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: wesleydad on November 07, 2010, 09:26:23 PM
Ralph, the lower half would be loaded with the possible 2, 3, 4, and 5 seeds in it if depauw doesnt get shipped out.  with this bracket do you think hampden sydney gets in and gets sent to the east?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ryan Tipps on November 07, 2010, 09:34:19 PM
I'll repost this in this thread, too, just for a point of reference. Here's my thinking:

Quote from: Ryan Tipps on November 07, 2010, 08:25:36 PM
... these are two scenarios I could see happening:

This assumes DePauw gets shipped North. (Probably makes the most sense from the South Region perspective.)
1. Wesley vs. 8. USA South winner
2. Mary Hardin-Baylor vs. 5. Hardin-Simmons
3. Thomas More vs. 7. Hampden-Sydney
4. Washington & Lee vs. 6. Muhlenberg

This assumes Wesley gets shipped East. (Two travesties in this scenario with the Texas subbracket and the DPU/TMC pairing. But driving distance is the deciding factor.)
1. Mary Hardin-Baylor vs. 5. Hardin-Simmons
2. DePauw vs. 3. Thomas More
4. Washington & Lee vs. 8. USA South winner
6. Muhlenberg vs. 7. Hampden-Sydney
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: algernon on November 07, 2010, 09:46:49 PM
How about this?
(records listed are if they win again this Saturday)

#8 CNU (6-4) @ #1 Wesley (9-0)
#7 Salisbury (7-2) @ #4 Hampden-Sydney (9-1)

#5 Hardin-Simmons (9-1) @ #2 Mary Hardin-Baylor (10-0)
#6 W&L (8-2) @ #3 Thomas More (10-0)

DePauw (10-0) hosts a North Region team
Muhlenburg (8-2) visits an East Region team
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ryan Tipps on November 07, 2010, 10:16:44 PM
Quote from: algernon on November 07, 2010, 09:46:49 PM
#7 Salisbury (7-2)

Having played Wesley and Hampden-Sydney to the bone, Salisbury deserves a spot as much as many of the other playoff teams. (I mean this wholeheartedly.)

However, with a WashU./Chicago showdown this coming Saturday, I think one of them would have a much better shot at getting the third Pool B slot than would Salisbury. They look better on NCAA paper (Wash U., especially) than does SU. And I don't see SU getting in as a Pool C with so many one-loss teams still on the table.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 07, 2010, 10:47:52 PM
The ASC always has a poor OWP/OOWP, and I think that we are not always given the benefit of the doubt that one should have for our geographic isolation.

On my ballot, we have #2 UMHB and #3 HSU (which are both in the Top 10 on d3football.com).  TMC and DPU would be 4/5.  If HSU beats TMC, I believe they deserve to host a playoff game.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Frank Rossi on November 10, 2010, 02:31:19 PM
We've got Regional Rankings... Final time for the season that we'll see them:

http://d3blogs.com/d3football/2010/11/10/ncaas-third-regional-rankings/
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: HSC85 on November 10, 2010, 03:45:27 PM
I am curious how the criteria of wins over regionally ranked teams and SOS are applied?  It seems that there will be teams chosen over teams based on geography or saving dollars, instead of a strict application of the selection criteria.  Especially when it comes to Pool C.  That is not a complaint.  It is just an observation.  Every team had that same chance to win the automatic qualifier.  I am just wondering how some decisions are made?  Maybe some of the more experienced posters could shed some light.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 10, 2010, 04:20:15 PM
Geography and money are NOT factors in selecting teams.  They compare the top team in each region according to the selection criteria (which include OWP/OOWP/games against regionally ranked teams and a whole lot more).  The top team gets the first pool C bid and is replaced by the next team in that region, then the process is repeated with the three teams that weren't selected and the new one.  Repeat until all Pool C bids are passed out.  

Geography and money ARE factors in deciding who gets a home game and how the brackets are built once the teams are selected, which is why you always see Texas teams matched up in the first round if there are only two of them, regardless of conference affiliation, seed, logic, or anything else.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: HSC85 on November 10, 2010, 04:57:29 PM
I understand the process.  I just don't understand why there are criteria published as applicable and then the Regional Rankings come out and they are not applied.  It is harder to understand in the other regions.  I think the South Region is closer to the criteria than the other regions. 

Based on the Regional Rankings the top 6 pool C selections would be:

Wheaton
Courtland/Rowan
Ohio Northern
Monclair St/Rowan/Courtland St
Hardin Simmons
Coe

However if the selection criteria listed as primary are applied there would be a different mix.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: algernon on November 11, 2010, 08:02:27 AM
So, these are the South teams who are an AQ or are ranked:

1.   Wesley 5-0 8-0                     Pool B
2.   Mary Hardin-Baylor 8-0 9-0       Pool A
3.   DePauw 9-0 9-0                      Pool A
4.   Thomas More 9-0 9-0                 Pool A   
5.   Hardin-Simmons 8-1 8-1       Pool C
6.   Washington and Lee 7-2 7-2     Pool A
7.   Hampden-Sydney 8-1 8-1       Pool C
8.   Salisbury 4-2 6-2                  Pool B
9.   Muhlenburg   7-1  7-2           Pool A
10.   Ursinus        7-1  7-2           Pool C
NA   CNU   5-4  5-4                      Pool A

If each team wins out, then maybe we'll see the following (and I've put final regional/overall record, if they win out, in parentheses)?

CNU (6-4, 6-4) to Wesley (6-0, 9-0)
Hardin-Simmons (9-1, 9-1) to Mary Hardin-Baylor (9-0 / 10-0)
North Region team () to DePauw (10-0, 10-0)
W&L (8-2, 8-2) or Hampden-Sydney (9-1, 9-1) to Thomas More  (10-0, 10-0)
Muhlenburg (5-2, 7-2) to Hampden-Sydney (9-1, 9-1) or W&L (8-2, 8-2)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: short on November 11, 2010, 01:22:46 PM
Depauw to the North. If Chicago or Wash U gets the last pool b spot that might push Depauw back to the South.  Or maybe sends Wittenburg south.  Witt is within 500 miles of Thomas More, Washington & Lee, Hampden-Sydney, and Muhlenburg while Depauw is only within 500 miles of Thomas More.

Bracket looking like this
Wesley 10-0
CNU 6-4

MHB 10-0
HSU 9-1

Witt 10-0
Muhlenburg 8-2

TM 10-0
WL 8-2
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: labart96 on November 13, 2010, 11:37:38 PM
For the second year in a row, we'll have Dr. Joy Solomen, Chair of the tournament selection committee on ITH tomorrow night - shows starts at 7:30 PM ET. 

Please post your questions here once the selections have been made so we can work them into our interview accordingly (we'll have plenty of our own, but always open to input).

You can tune into ITH - www.inthehuddLLe.com - to hear the interview with Dr. Solomen as well as catch a live reading of the ECAC match ups as we expect to get those around 8:00-30 PM ET and plan to announce them live on the show.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 13, 2010, 11:49:57 PM
Some of the losses today combined with the upset losses last week have  things a bit for the brackets
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on November 20, 2010, 03:36:55 PM
A solid game by Wesley today!  53-14.  Over 600 yards of offense while only allowing 172 yards by Muhlenburg.  The second string was in by the end of the 3rd quarter.  Wesley had only 1 turnover and 3 penalties.  Outstanding!  Looking forward to some revenge next week on Montclair State.

This was the best offensive showing all year.  Sottilaire had over 300 yards of passing and 4 TD's.  Both Wright and Jahad each had over 100 yards rushing while Krout and Fowlkes were over 100 yards of recieving each.  Outstanding! 

A VERY promising start to the playoffs.

-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 12, 2011, 04:19:13 PM
Week #10  (2nd South Regional Ranking)  Records are overall/ in-region/ overall/ conference. (Pool A in Bold  Pool B in italics)


SOUTH

           Team                        Regional/ Overall/ Conference          Today                Results versus Regionally Ranked opps.
1 Mary Hardin-Baylor 8-0 9-0 7-0  Leading TLU 49-13 at the half.  Key wins over McMurry, LaColl
2 Johns Hopkins 9-0 10-0  9-0       Edged McDaniel 28-24.             None
3 Trinity (Texas) 10-0 10-0 7-0          Beat Austin College 7-6     Win over Centre
3 Wesley 5-1 9-1   x-x                         Beat Huntingdon 54-13    Loss to Kean, win over Salisbury                   
5 McMurry 6-1 7-2 6-1                          Playing  Miss College    Loss to UMHB; win over LaCollege
6 Hampden-Sydney 8-2 8-2 5-1    Loss to Randolph-Macon 48-34    Win over Wash & Lee; loss to Huntindgon         
7 Centre 7-1 7-1  4-1                           Beat Rhodes 41-28                Win over Wash & Lee; Loss to Trinity   
8 Thomas More 9-1 9-1 7-1          Beat Mt St Joseph                Loss to Waynesburg
9 Louisiana College 6-2 7-2 5-2                   Losing to HSU                      Loss to UMHB and McMurry
10 Christopher Newport 8-1 8-2 7-0    Beat Maryville                 Loss to Stevenson, Salisbury

Also ranked  Washington and Lee 8-2 8-2 5-1  Open date  Losses to Centre and HSC
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: jknezek on November 12, 2011, 04:28:40 PM
Anyone else think H-SC's performance today is going to stand a good chance at sending them to UMHB to fill out the Texas sub-division should the committee go that route? Two of their last three games have been rough, sandwiching an exceptional effort to overcome the Generals. I guess we'll see what the committee thinks, but The Game loss is really a brutal blow for the ODAC rep...
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: SUADC on November 12, 2011, 06:54:38 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 12, 2011, 04:28:40 PM
Anyone else think H-SC's performance today is going to stand a good chance at sending them to UMHB to fill out the Texas sub-division should the committee go that route? Two of their last three games have been rough, sandwiching an exceptional effort to overcome the Generals. I guess we'll see what the committee thinks, but The Game loss is really a brutal blow for the ODAC rep...


I think H-SC @ Wesley, CNU @ MHB, Thomas More @ Johns Hopkins, and Centre @ McMurry.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: crufootball on November 12, 2011, 07:05:33 PM
Quote from: SUADC on November 12, 2011, 06:54:38 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 12, 2011, 04:28:40 PM
Anyone else think H-SC's performance today is going to stand a good chance at sending them to UMHB to fill out the Texas sub-division should the committee go that route? Two of their last three games have been rough, sandwiching an exceptional effort to overcome the Generals. I guess we'll see what the committee thinks, but The Game loss is really a brutal blow for the ODAC rep...


I think H-SC @ Wesley, CNU @ MHB, Thomas More @ Johns Hopkins, and Centre @ McMurry.

Where is Trinity in that situation?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: wesleydad on November 12, 2011, 07:20:54 PM
i think the h-sc loss saved them from a trip to dover and will send them to dc to play hopkins with cnu at wesley.  i am not sure if the mileage issue is in play, but the other 4 could be umhb, trinity, centre, and mcmurray.  i think thomas more can move to the north.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: jknezek on November 12, 2011, 08:04:19 PM
Quote from: SUADC on November 12, 2011, 06:54:38 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 12, 2011, 04:28:40 PM
Anyone else think H-SC's performance today is going to stand a good chance at sending them to UMHB to fill out the Texas sub-division should the committee go that route? Two of their last three games have been rough, sandwiching an exceptional effort to overcome the Generals. I guess we'll see what the committee thinks, but The Game loss is really a brutal blow for the ODAC rep...


I think H-SC @ Wesley, CNU @ MHB, Thomas More @ Johns Hopkins, and Centre @ McMurry.

Pretty sure Thomas More and Johns Hopkins are close to 600 miles. That would be too far.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 12, 2011, 08:13:50 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 12, 2011, 08:04:19 PM
Quote from: SUADC on November 12, 2011, 06:54:38 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 12, 2011, 04:28:40 PM
Anyone else think H-SC's performance today is going to stand a good chance at sending them to UMHB to fill out the Texas sub-division should the committee go that route? Two of their last three games have been rough, sandwiching an exceptional effort to overcome the Generals. I guess we'll see what the committee thinks, but The Game loss is really a brutal blow for the ODAC rep...


I think H-SC @ Wesley, CNU @ MHB, Thomas More @ Johns Hopkins, and Centre @ McMurry.

Pretty sure Thomas More and Johns Hopkins are close to 600 miles. That would be too far.
TMC to JHU = 536  miles
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: HSCTiger74 on November 12, 2011, 08:34:58 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 12, 2011, 08:13:50 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 12, 2011, 08:04:19 PM
Quote from: SUADC on November 12, 2011, 06:54:38 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 12, 2011, 04:28:40 PM
Anyone else think H-SC's performance today is going to stand a good chance at sending them to UMHB to fill out the Texas sub-division should the committee go that route? Two of their last three games have been rough, sandwiching an exceptional effort to overcome the Generals. I guess we'll see what the committee thinks, but The Game loss is really a brutal blow for the ODAC rep...


I think H-SC @ Wesley, CNU @ MHB, Thomas More @ Johns Hopkins, and Centre @ McMurry.

Pretty sure Thomas More and Johns Hopkins are close to 600 miles. That would be too far.
TMC to JHU = 536  miles

So to quote the immortal Harry Doyle ... Juuust a bit outside.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: SUADC on November 12, 2011, 10:30:30 PM
Quote from: crufootball on November 12, 2011, 07:05:33 PM
Quote from: SUADC on November 12, 2011, 06:54:38 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 12, 2011, 04:28:40 PM
Anyone else think H-SC's performance today is going to stand a good chance at sending them to UMHB to fill out the Texas sub-division should the committee go that route? Two of their last three games have been rough, sandwiching an exceptional effort to overcome the Generals. I guess we'll see what the committee thinks, but The Game loss is really a brutal blow for the ODAC rep...


I think H-SC @ Wesley, CNU @ MHB, Thomas More @ Johns Hopkins, and Centre @ McMurry.

Where is Trinity in that situation?

Totally forgot about Trinity, with that I can see either H-SC or Wesley moving to the East, I would choose Wesley going to the East and having Thomas More @ Trinity (TX) and H-SC @ Johns Hopkins
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 12, 2011, 10:35:42 PM
No way the NCAA will pay for three flights to Texas with three schools there.  McM at Trinity (or given today's result maybe even Trinity at McM  :-[ ), bet on it.   Way too much precedent for the AA to start worrying about being fair at this stage. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Toby Taff on November 12, 2011, 10:42:03 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 12, 2011, 10:35:42 PM
No way the NCAA will pay for three flights to Texas with three schools there.  McM at Trinity (or given today's result maybe even Trinity at McM  :-[ ), bet on it.   Way too much precedent for the AA to start worrying about being fair at this stage.
would you make the drive to Abilene if Trinity came north?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 12, 2011, 11:00:25 PM
McMurry will renovate the Wilford Moore Stadium (http://www.reporternews.com/news/2011/nov/11/mcmurry-plans-stadium-upgrade) this off-season.  This is a $2.2 million upgrade.

Construction will begin ASAP.

I haven't heard if McMurry submitted for the playoffs (altho' they are usually pretty active at those things.)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 12, 2011, 11:29:55 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 12, 2011, 10:35:42 PM
No way the NCAA will pay for three flights to Texas with three schools there.  McM at Trinity (or given today's result maybe even Trinity at McM  :-[ ), bet on it.   Way too much precedent for the AA to start worrying about being fair at this stage.
There was a point today when I was following JHU, ahead by 4, and Trinity, only up 7-0.

I could imagine McMurry at #3 in the South Region.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 13, 2011, 09:20:27 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 12, 2011, 11:29:55 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 12, 2011, 10:35:42 PM
No way the NCAA will pay for three flights to Texas with three schools there.  McM at Trinity (or given today's result maybe even Trinity at McM  :-[ ), bet on it.   Way too much precedent for the AA to start worrying about being fair at this stage.
There was a point today when I was following JHU, ahead by 4, and Trinity, only up 7-0.

I could imagine McMurry at #3 in the South Region.

Pat and company have Trinity (#4 south) going to UMHB (#1) now and McM (as a #7 in the west region, really??) going to Linfield.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 13, 2011, 09:38:45 AM
Why would the NCAA abandon the Texas Sub-regional?  ;D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: HSC85 on November 13, 2011, 10:22:49 AM
HSC is within 500 miles of Centre, Thomas More, JHU, Wesley, Salisbury and possibly others in other regions.  The KY schools are more than 500 miles from JHU, Wesley and Salisbury.  It makes sense to see HSC and CNU go to some combination of JHU, Wesley, or Salisbury.  By doing this you still have a guaranteed bus game in the second round even if there would be two upsets.  I predict a Texas sub-bracket.  I just do not know the team that would be flown in to fill it out.  It could be HSC or CNU.  However with a flight, it could be anyone. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CruGuy on November 13, 2011, 10:42:17 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 13, 2011, 09:20:27 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 12, 2011, 11:29:55 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 12, 2011, 10:35:42 PM
No way the NCAA will pay for three flights to Texas with three schools there.  McM at Trinity (or given today's result maybe even Trinity at McM  :-[ ), bet on it.   Way too much precedent for the AA to start worrying about being fair at this stage.
There was a point today when I was following JHU, ahead by 4, and Trinity, only up 7-0.

I could imagine McMurry at #3 in the South Region.

Pat and company have Trinity (#4 south) going to UMHB (#1) now and McM (as a #7 in the west region, really??) going to Linfield.

As an alum of UMHB, I didn't like that bracket at all. Easily the worst possible scenario for a well established #1. I don't see the NCAA shipping McMurry out west though. Makes too much sense to have Texas sub-bracket.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 13, 2011, 12:57:33 PM
D3football.com has projected the best of possible brackets, geographic proximity considered..

It is possible for McMurry to meet UMHB in Salem for the Stagg Bowl.

All of one, one for all!

We find out at 5pm CST.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Toby Taff on November 13, 2011, 05:04:24 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 13, 2011, 12:57:33 PM
D3football.com has projected the best of possible brackets, geographic proximity considered..

It is possible for McMurry to meet UMHB in Salem for the Stagg Bowl.

All of one, one for all!

We find out at 5pm CST.
I'm for a potential all ASC Stagg
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 13, 2011, 08:27:18 PM
South Region teams are scattered over all four brackets!

UWW bracket:  Thomas More and CNU

Tommies bracket:  Johns Hopkins

Mount Union:  Centre hosts Hampden-Sydney

UMHB bracket:  Redlands at UMHB; McMurry at Trinity TX; Hobart at Wesley
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: D O.C. on November 13, 2011, 09:50:58 PM
Congrats for getting your team in there before you're out the door, Old Timer.
Will you get to see Saturday's game, Ralph?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 13, 2011, 10:05:17 PM
Quote from: D O.C. on November 13, 2011, 09:50:58 PM
Congrats for getting your team in there before you're out the door, Old Timer.
Will you get to see Saturday's game, Ralph?
I cannot get to SAT but I hope to drive down to Belton the next weekend if we beat TU.

The poignancy for the Seniors is that the first game they played as Freshmen was against Trinity at Stevens in 2008, a 48-18 loss. As sophs, they lost the first game of the Mumme era to Trinity, 31-26 on an incredible "double fumble"/fumble and strip.

http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=3803.9795 and following posts
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 14, 2011, 02:53:38 PM
The UMHB bracket is this year's candidate for the "Bracket of Death"

#4  hosts  #14
#15 hosts #19
#5 hosts #8
#7 hosts RV #31
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on November 14, 2011, 03:38:16 PM
I am excited!  This is gonna be cool!    :-*

-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: D O.C. on November 16, 2011, 03:56:15 PM
I have reason to believe this is the best "South" bracket ever.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: wesleydad on November 16, 2011, 05:12:27 PM
hard to argue that.  take out hobart who is unranked and you still have 7, 4 in the top ten, ranked teams.  dont recall seeing that in all the years of "south bracket"'s since i have been following d3.  it will be fun to see how each region fars against the other with the cross over games.  there has been debate about how to compare regions when they dont play each other, well this will put that out into the open.  cant argue actual game results.  only 2 more days until game time.  :D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: D O.C. on November 17, 2011, 05:40:09 PM
wesleydad....what board do Wesley fans play on?  I cannot find them all year - lucky you.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: wesleydad on November 17, 2011, 09:30:37 PM
DOC we are on the acfc board.  not many of us, me, teamski, pawesleyfan, and waterboy for the most part.  beenhittohard is a transplanted mount fan who travels to wesley to see good football, compliment to wesley.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CNU85 on November 18, 2011, 03:27:49 PM
Wesleydad,

Give me a short scouting report on Kean if you have time. Good luck tomorrow!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 18, 2011, 10:03:45 PM
I think one thing that has been overlooked in the UMHB bracket is the travel. If Wesley/Hobart winner has to fly west or Cal Luth/Linfield has to fly east and that team wins again they will have to fly cross country a second time if UMHB is still standing. Just a Hypothetical!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: beenhit2hard on November 18, 2011, 10:18:33 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on November 17, 2011, 09:30:37 PM
DOC we are on the acfc board.  not many of us, me, teamski, pawesleyfan, and waterboy for the most part.  beenhittohard is a transplanted mount fan who travels to wesley to see good football, compliment to wesley.

Transplanted former mount union d line coach  ;D ::) :o
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: pbrooks3 on November 18, 2011, 10:54:08 PM
Good luck Centre Colonels tomorrow in your playoff game!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: wesleydad on November 18, 2011, 11:05:44 PM
cnu85, i picked you guys to win.  the qb is as annoying as you will find.  he avoids the rush as well as anyone.  they do nothing fancy, the d is good, the o is average.  protect the ball.  the special teams are very good.  good luck tomorrow.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CNU85 on November 19, 2011, 01:14:04 PM
The wheels have fallen off the CNU bus. In fact, the engine fell off too! And the bumpers, fenders, sun roof, mirrors.

With 1:20 left before half, CNU down by 7 to Kean 14-7. Halftime score 34-7. 

Let's see what happens in second half.

Wesleydad- you were right. CNU is not taking care of ball. It is costing them. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: CNU85 on November 19, 2011, 09:08:40 PM
Looking at stats of the Kean/CNU game. CNU lead in just about every category. Yards passing, yards rushing, TOP, fewer penalties. The key stat other than the score - turnovers. CNU had 6. Kean is very opportunistic. They scored 3 times in 53 seconds at end of first half to blow it open. CNU didn't allow a first down in third quarter. But Kean had too large of a lead and CNU was forced to go for it on 4th down almost every possession. Congrats to Kean. Beat Salisbury!!!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 31, 2012, 05:42:01 PM
SOUTH  REGION RANKINGS WEEK #1
1    Mary Hardin-Baylor    7-0    8-0  ASC
2    Wesley    5-1    7-1                   Pool B
3    Johns Hopkins    8-0    8-0        Centennial
4    Waynesburg    9-0    9-0          Pres AC
5    Huntingdon    4-2    5-2             Pool B/C
5    Washington and Lee    6-2    6-2  ODAC
7    Louisiana College    4-2    6-2                 ASC
8    Muhlenberg    5-2    6-2                         Centennial
9    Hampden-Sydney    6-2    6-2                ODAC
10    Hardin-Simmons    4-3    5-3                 ASC



Pool A conference leaders are in Bold
Wesley is the strongest Pool B candidate in the Region, and highest among the four regions.

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Hawks88 on November 03, 2012, 09:58:59 PM
So, I'm guessing F&M replaces Hampden-Sydney in the regional rankings? 2-losses and just got their 2nd win over RRO. Was just checking to see who it might be, hoping it would be Millsaps but looks like F&M.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: jknezek on November 03, 2012, 10:04:22 PM
Quote from: Hawks88 on November 03, 2012, 09:58:59 PM
So, I'm guessing F&M replaces Hampden-Sydney in the regional rankings? 2-losses and just got their 2nd win over RRO. Was just checking to see who it might be, hoping it would be Millsaps but looks like F&M.

that would be my guess. you almost had it with Hardin Simmons, as they would have dropped with a loss.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Hawks88 on November 03, 2012, 10:08:35 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 03, 2012, 10:04:22 PM
Quote from: Hawks88 on November 03, 2012, 09:58:59 PM
So, I'm guessing F&M replaces Hampden-Sydney in the regional rankings? 2-losses and just got their 2nd win over RRO. Was just checking to see who it might be, hoping it would be Millsaps but looks like F&M.

that would be my guess. you almost had it with Hardin Simmons, as they would have dropped with a loss.
Maybe LC will take care of that next week. That is as long as Millsaps takes care of BSC. Ehh, we just need to win ours and not worry about anyone else.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: jknezek on November 03, 2012, 10:20:18 PM
Quote from: Hawks88 on November 03, 2012, 10:08:35 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 03, 2012, 10:04:22 PM
Quote from: Hawks88 on November 03, 2012, 09:58:59 PM
So, I'm guessing F&M replaces Hampden-Sydney in the regional rankings? 2-losses and just got their 2nd win over RRO. Was just checking to see who it might be, hoping it would be Millsaps but looks like F&M.

that would be my guess. you almost had it with Hardin Simmons, as they would have dropped with a loss.
Maybe LC will take care of that next week. That is as long as Millsaps takes care of BSC. Ehh, we just need to win ours and not worry about anyone else.

Yep. It took 4 overtimes today, but my Generals did get it done. A win next week makes 8-2, probably 1-1 vs RRO (depends on F&M getting into the rankings). SOS will be good, but 2 losses will put them in the bottom of a bracket. Be interesting to see where they travel. If they lose next week to a weak Shenandoah because they are looking ahead, they can enjoy Belton, Dover, or Alliance, so I'm praying they don't pull a game like they did at Bridgewater.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 03, 2012, 11:44:57 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 31, 2012, 05:42:01 PM
SOUTH  REGION RANKINGS WEEK #1
1    Mary Hardin-Baylor    7-0    8-0  Clinched  ASC   WON
2    Wesley    5-1    7-1                   Pool B  WON
3    Johns Hopkins    8-0    8-0        Centennial   Lost to F&M
4    Waynesburg    9-0    9-0          Pres AC           WON
5    Huntingdon    4-2    5-2             Pool B/C                 WON NON-D3 GAME
5    Washington and Lee    6-2    6-2  Clinched ODAC         BEAT H-SC
7    Louisiana College    4-2    6-2                 ASC          WON
8    Muhlenberg    5-2    6-2                         Centennial   WON
9    Hampden-Sydney    6-2    6-2                ODAC         Lost to W&L
10    Hardin-Simmons    4-3    5-3                 ASC           WON



Pool A conference leaders are in Bold
Wesley is the strongest Pool B candidate in the Region, and highest among the four regions.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: thewaterboy on November 05, 2012, 07:58:56 AM
So suppose the committee wants to place UMHB and Wesley in different brackets to avoid a repeat match-up (at least until potentially later). What are the odds that Wesley gets shipped to the east with Mount Union? They had a relatively easy road to the semis last year where Linfield, Wesley, and UMHB got stuck in the cannibalistic "south" bracket.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 06, 2012, 01:24:03 AM
Quote from: thewaterboy on November 05, 2012, 07:58:56 AM
So suppose the committee wants to place UMHB and Wesley in different brackets to avoid a repeat match-up (at least until potentially later). What are the odds that Wesley gets shipped to the east with Mount Union? They had a relatively easy road to the semis last year where Linfield, Wesley, and UMHB got stuck in the cannibalistic "south" bracket.
The committee is probably very comfortable having the rematch in the third round, the round of 8.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Teamski on November 06, 2012, 03:57:00 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 06, 2012, 01:24:03 AM
Quote from: thewaterboy on November 05, 2012, 07:58:56 AM
So suppose the committee wants to place UMHB and Wesley in different brackets to avoid a repeat match-up (at least until potentially later). What are the odds that Wesley gets shipped to the east with Mount Union? They had a relatively easy road to the semis last year where Linfield, Wesley, and UMHB got stuck in the cannibalistic "south" bracket.
The committee is probably very comfortable having the rematch in the third round, the round of 8.

I concur.  There is no reason why the committee would break South Region tradition.

-Ski
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: wesleydad on November 06, 2012, 07:29:18 PM
Quote from: Teamski on November 06, 2012, 03:57:00 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 06, 2012, 01:24:03 AM
Quote from: thewaterboy on November 05, 2012, 07:58:56 AM
So suppose the committee wants to place UMHB and Wesley in different brackets to avoid a repeat match-up (at least until potentially later). What are the odds that Wesley gets shipped to the east with Mount Union? They had a relatively easy road to the semis last year where Linfield, Wesley, and UMHB got stuck in the cannibalistic "south" bracket.
The committee is probably very comfortable having the rematch in the third round, the round of 8.

I concur.  There is no reason why the committee would break South Region tradition.

-Ski

the only reason it would happen would be if there is an overload of top teams in the south and a void in the east.  unfortunatly the south has imploded and there is not an overload.  the east is looking rather weak after the top 3 so wesley could get sent there, but pick the poison UMHB in belton or Mount in alliance.  I like alliance because i can drive there. ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: thewaterboy on November 07, 2012, 08:08:23 AM
wesleydad, I like Alliance too  ;) in my backyard almost! Which is why, of course, Im hoping they will be there at some point.

It was just something to consider since Linfield got shipped to the "South" last year. I know that the east is typically not the strongest of the brackets. But it would be interesting to see Mount paired with a perrenial power in their bracket right from the get go. But I would say Hobart would be the #2 seed there with their success.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 12, 2012, 10:05:18 PM
South
Mary Hardin-Baylor   8-0 9-0   Won game #10   ASC Pool A
Wesley 5-1 8-1                      Won the last game      Pool B
Johns Hopkins 8-1 8-1            Won the last game      CC Pool A
4  Waynesburg 9-0 9-0              Lost the last game
5T Huntingdon 4-2 6-2                Lost the last game
5T Washington and Lee   7-2 7-2      Won the last game  ODAC Pool A
Louisiana College 5-2 7-2         Beat #10 HSU               Pool C
8  Muhlenberg 6-2 7-2                 Won the last game
9  Franklin and Marshall 7-2 7-2    Lost the last game
10 Hardin-Simmons 5-3 6-3         Lost to #7 LaCollege

NR  CNU 6-4  6-4                                                          USA South Pool A bid.

After the last weekend, did LaCollege move to #5?  I would have loved to have seen a #5 LaCollege at #4 Wash & Lee!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: jknezek on November 13, 2012, 09:08:08 AM
I wouldn't have minded seeing that either Ralph. Unfortunately I think W&L ended up as a 7 seed in their current bracket. Pretty miserable. But I keep telling myself you can't complain when you have 2 losses.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 03, 2013, 09:36:23 AM
So, UMHB -TLU in the first round?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: jknezek on November 03, 2013, 09:58:31 AM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on November 03, 2013, 09:36:23 AM
So, UMHB -TLU in the first round?

That's a good guess at this point unless the NCAA is willing to spring for a few more flights. It's a shame, since I think there will be better candidates for an 8 seed than TLU, but I would be somewhat surprised NOT to see a Texas sub-bracket. On the other hand, given TLU's desire to avoid UMHB by moving from the ASC to the non-AQ SCAC, I also can't help but see a bit of poetic justice in the matchup occurring at some point. TLU plays everyone BUT UMHB from the ASC, so their intent in moving from the ASC is pretty clear.

I could see a few ways you could even out an extra flight in the first round by setting up a likely matchup between UMHB and TLU in the second. But that would require some guessing and foresight by the committee. Lot of football to be played, but I have to think that if UMHB and TLU make the playoffs, as seems likely, the intent will be to match them at some point. It makes financial sense, but I'd rather see that matchup in round 2, rather than round 1 if both go undefeated.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Toby Taff on November 03, 2013, 11:21:19 AM
Quote from: jknezek on November 03, 2013, 09:58:31 AM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on November 03, 2013, 09:36:23 AM
So, UMHB -TLU in the first round?

That's a good guess at this point unless the NCAA is willing to spring for a few more flights. It's a shame, since I think there will be better candidates for an 8 seed than TLU, but I would be somewhat surprised NOT to see a Texas sub-bracket. On the other hand, given TLU's desire to avoid UMHB by moving from the ASC to the non-AQ SCAC, I also can't help but see a bit of poetic justice in the matchup occurring at some point. TLU plays everyone BUT UMHB from the ASC, so their intent in moving from the ASC is pretty clear.

I could see a few ways you could even out an extra flight in the first round by setting up a likely matchup between UMHB and TLU in the second. But that would require some guessing and foresight by the committee. Lot of football to be played, but I have to think that if UMHB and TLU make the playoffs, as seems likely, the intent will be to match them at some point. It makes financial sense, but I'd rather see that matchup in round 2, rather than round 1 if both go undefeated.
i agree that we will likely have a Texas sub-bracket again, and am glad it will be against TLU if it happens. TLUs program is tangentially related to UMHBs through coach Padron, so I get leaving the ASC from a football standpoint. He witnessed the programs rise as a parent and as a coach had a good grasp of what he was seeing. He knows the mountain TLU has to climb. I think they have a better shot at combing it from outside the ASC
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 03, 2013, 05:00:05 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 03, 2013, 09:58:31 AM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on November 03, 2013, 09:36:23 AM
So, UMHB -TLU in the first round?

That's a good guess at this point unless the NCAA is willing to spring for a few more flights. It's a shame, since I think there will be better candidates for an 8 seed than TLU, but I would be somewhat surprised NOT to see a Texas sub-bracket. On the other hand, given TLU's desire to avoid UMHB by moving from the ASC to the non-AQ SCAC, I also can't help but see a bit of poetic justice in the matchup occurring at some point. TLU plays everyone BUT UMHB from the ASC, so their intent in moving from the ASC is pretty clear.

I could see a few ways you could even out an extra flight in the first round by setting up a likely matchup between UMHB and TLU in the second. But that would require some guessing and foresight by the committee. Lot of football to be played, but I have to think that if UMHB and TLU make the playoffs, as seems likely, the intent will be to match them at some point. It makes financial sense, but I'd rather see that matchup in round 2, rather than round 1 if both go undefeated.

I wouldn't have any problem with the irony matchup there. Just finishing their ASC schedule in Week 12 instead of Week 11.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: umhb2001 on November 04, 2013, 01:01:19 PM
Quote from: Toby Taff on November 03, 2013, 11:21:19 AM
Quote from: jknezek on November 03, 2013, 09:58:31 AM
Quote from: Bill McCabe on November 03, 2013, 09:36:23 AM
So, UMHB -TLU in the first round?

That's a good guess at this point unless the NCAA is willing to spring for a few more flights. It's a shame, since I think there will be better candidates for an 8 seed than TLU, but I would be somewhat surprised NOT to see a Texas sub-bracket. On the other hand, given TLU's desire to avoid UMHB by moving from the ASC to the non-AQ SCAC, I also can't help but see a bit of poetic justice in the matchup occurring at some point. TLU plays everyone BUT UMHB from the ASC, so their intent in moving from the ASC is pretty clear.

I could see a few ways you could even out an extra flight in the first round by setting up a likely matchup between UMHB and TLU in the second. But that would require some guessing and foresight by the committee. Lot of football to be played, but I have to think that if UMHB and TLU make the playoffs, as seems likely, the intent will be to match them at some point. It makes financial sense, but I'd rather see that matchup in round 2, rather than round 1 if both go undefeated.
i agree that we will likely have a Texas sub-bracket again, and am glad it will be against TLU if it happens. TLUs program is tangentially related to UMHBs through coach Padron, so I get leaving the ASC from a football standpoint. He witnessed the programs rise as a parent and as a coach had a good grasp of what he was seeing. He knows the mountain TLU has to climb. I think they have a better shot at combing it from outside the ASC

I believe his son is also a coach at TLU along with at least one other former coach from UMHB. They have the pieces of the UMHB puzzle; the question is this, is Padron's glue as tacky as Fredenburg's? That is the question.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bill McCabe on November 09, 2013, 11:32:49 PM
So what happens now the TLU lost to HSU
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 09, 2013, 11:45:55 PM
We'll have to see how far they fall in the regional rankings this week.   My guess is that such an egregious loss combined with no Ws over RROs - unless LC sneaks back in - will put paid to their playoff hopes.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Scots13 on November 10, 2013, 12:49:33 PM
I would hope TLU is out of the playoff picture after the showing they just had. Granted I'm not too highly qualified to speak on TLU football or the SCAC, but one would figure with a SOS of 214 out of 244 and getting an absolute shocking 73-44 beat down by a 4-5 HSU team, TLU screwed the proverbial pooch on Saturday.

I'd like to see the Texas sub-bracket that has had a lot of build up, but I don't see a late season loss like this one as being too kind for a playoff resume.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Toby Taff on November 10, 2013, 01:41:20 PM
Quote from: Scots13 on November 10, 2013, 12:49:33 PM
I would hope TLU is out of the playoff picture after the showing they just had. Granted I'm not too highly qualified to speak on TLU football or the SCAC, but one would figure with a SOS of 214 out of 244 and getting an absolute shocking 73-44 beat down by a 4-5 HSU team, TLU screwed the proverbial pooch on Saturday.

I'd like to see the Texas sub-bracket that has had a lot of build up, but I don't see a late season loss like this one as being too kind for a playoff resume.
that thumping was not totally unexpected. HSU has a team that can score in bunches and as I said on another board if TLU doesnt show up against HSU or HPU they could get beat. They better show up next week or HPU could bite them as well
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 10, 2013, 08:17:24 PM
Some of the regular Texas posters have called HSU Jekyll or Hyde this season.

TLU needs to beat HPU to retain credibility.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: jaybird44 on November 10, 2013, 11:10:42 PM
Even if Texas Lutheran defeats Howard Payne, it's hard to brush aside giving up 73 points to a sub-.500 team--even if that team was Hardin-Simmons with a very good SOS.  It would be one thing if TL lost 76-73 in 5 or 6 OTs.  But it is difficult to think of TL as a playoff team with a loss like that and an SOS that is near the bottom of the D-3 barrel.

If SOS has the meaning and importance that it is supposed to have, then Wash-U should move past Texas Lutheran...being only a half-game behind in the won-loss column, and a vastly superior SOS.  If Wash-U remains behind TL in this week's regional rankings, then the SOS stat should be removed from consideration by the committee...so everyone can then schedule the weakest slate of teams possible. 

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: jknezek on November 11, 2013, 09:53:04 AM
Quote from: jaybird44 on November 10, 2013, 11:10:42 PM
Even if Texas Lutheran defeats Howard Payne, it's hard to brush aside giving up 73 points to a sub-.500 team--even if that team was Hardin-Simmons with a very good SOS.  It would be one thing if TL lost 76-73 in 5 or 6 OTs.  But it is difficult to think of TL as a playoff team with a loss like that and an SOS that is near the bottom of the D-3 barrel.

If SOS has the meaning and importance that it is supposed to have, then Wash-U should move past Texas Lutheran...being only a half-game behind in the won-loss column, and a vastly superior SOS.  If Wash-U remains behind TL in this week's regional rankings, then the SOS stat should be removed from consideration by the committee...so everyone can then schedule the weakest slate of teams possible.

Mostly I agree with you, but you ignore some pertinent information about SOS. For example, any team that plays in a 10 team conference round robin has an SOS near .500. It doesn't matter how good the conference is, that SOS has to trend very close to .500 for all members. Similarly, a team that plays in an 8 team conference, if the members of the conference have scheduled weak opposition, can trend to a very high SOS based on sweeping OOC play. Again, it doesn't really matter how good the teams in the conference are, simply that they are better than their OOC schedule.

So SOS can not be judged in a vacuum. Wash U, while clearly playing a tough schedule this year (even including two first year teams), has the ability to make a strong SOS in a way other teams can't. TLU is basically playing the entire ASC minus UMHB. The ASC is traditionally the South's best conference, though this year seems to be a down year. Now is it a down year because the teams are actually weaker, or is it a down year because the teams scheduled difficult OOC matches, leading to sub .500 records for an 8 team conference? In this case, it's probably a bit of both so it has dragged TLU's SOS through the floor despite playing what, in many years, would be a very reputable schedule.

While I agree Wash U deserves to hit the table before TLU, I wouldn't base that argument on how SOS is supposed to work. I'm more inclined to agree with your 72 point analysis. Though I also find it difficult to put a team on the table that has 2 losses and squeaked out a 7-0 win over Macalaster. On the upside, the Bears did win, on the downside it's a hold your nose and close your eyes when you vote kind of win when you look at a body of work that includes scoring double digits on only ONE team that has above a .500 record.

My money, right now, would go Millsaps, Wesley, Framingham St. In Pool C for the South I would line up TMC before Wash U based on the criteria, but Wash U before TLU. Objectively, having two losses is almost always a killer for an at-large. Coe dropping from contention kills the "we lost to two great teams close" idea, so you are hanging your hat on a close loss to UWW early and wins over Rhodes, Centre, and probably Chicago, none of whom look as good as they did 3 weeks ago.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: ExTartanPlayer on November 11, 2013, 10:26:26 AM
I agree with jknezek's point on the necessity of context when interpreting the SOS numbers.  Incidentally, that's the same argument I've been using against over-weighting Wesley's #1 SOS ranking (although WashU has a lot more games while Wesley only has 6).

WashU and TLU present an interesting dichotomy.  At first blush, I say WashU has played a tougher schedule and notched more quality wins (plus a high-quality loss against UWW, a game that they led into the fourth quarter).  As jknezek notes, WashU just doesn't score much; it's like that old saw about a running back "If you need two yards, he'll get you three; if you need six yards, he'll get you three" with WashU's offense.  If you need 10 points to win, they'll get you 10.  If you need 24 to win, they'll get you 10.  But their defense is so darn good that they keep winning, even if it means 7-0 wins against Macalester and 9-7 against Carnegie Mellon.  Having seen them in person, I believe that they are capable of shutting down all but the best handful of teams in Division III (they did hold Whitewater to 17 points) and even the better teams they could "slow down" (i.e. they could hold Mount to like 34 instead of 58)...but they can't score against anybody good.  They can barely score against anybody, period.  And that last point jknezek makes re: the Coe loss hurts.  If Coe was 9-1 or 10-0 and in line for the IIAC's bid, WashU could play the card that they lost to two playoff teams in close, competitive games. 

TLU is kind of the opposite.  They score lots of points...and give up lots of points.  I'm really not sure who would win a hypothetical matchup between the two.  The only connection I can really find between them is that WashU's UAA peer Case Western beat Trinity by 4, the same margin as TLU, but that's impossible to interpret meaningfully given the differences in time of season and whatnot.

I'm honestly not sure who is a better playoff representative (i.e. which of them actually makes the playoffs more "competitive").  It really would depend on who they drew in the first round.  If TLU gets in, they might be able to score with the right first-round opponent; if WashU gets in, they might be able to shut down the right first-round opponent.  I will be interested to see where they end up in the rankings.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 11, 2013, 07:42:19 PM
 When it comes down to B and C bids we are all usually left scratching our heads about at least one bid. Someone always gets left out that we feel should be in! I wouldn't be surprised to be surprised. LOL
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: jknezek on November 11, 2013, 07:48:01 PM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on November 11, 2013, 07:42:19 PM
When it comes down to B and C bids we are all usually left scratching our heads about at least one bid. Someone always gets left out that we feel should be in! I wouldn't be surprised to be surprised. LOL

Completely true. On the other hand, if we are talking about 1 or 2 out of 8 selections (5C + 3B) it's really not a big deal. Understandably a big deal to the team that feels shafted, but toward the bottom of the selection barrel the teams start to look so much alike, and all of them have something that is their fault for leaving them sitting on the table, it's not really an issue for me. By the time you get to "whose wart is ugliest" you realize all of them grew their own warts making selection an iffy proposition.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: cover2 on November 16, 2013, 10:17:37 PM
So, if I'm reading the projections correctly, and seeds hold in the South, that would have UMHB with 2 rematches in the first 2 rounds, correct?  Is that unavoidable or will it matter to the committee?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 16, 2013, 10:46:38 PM
Yes, the brackets make sense.  Sorry TLU and Millsaps.  'Saps will have the Pool A in 2015, (I think.)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 16, 2013, 10:49:25 PM
Quote from: cover2 on November 16, 2013, 10:17:37 PM
So, if I'm reading the projections correctly, and seeds hold in the South, that would have UMHB with 2 rematches in the first 2 rounds, correct?  Is that unavoidable or will it matter to the committee?



  Not really because more than likely all the south teams are not staying in the south or UMHB bracket. Last year the committee moved teams all over the map. And with some of the auto bid teams losing today it doesn't sit well for high seeds for many of the south teams beyond Johns Hopkins and UMHB
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: PA_wesleyfan on November 16, 2013, 10:52:32 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 16, 2013, 10:46:38 PM
Yes, the brackets make sense.  Sorry TLU and Millsaps.  'Saps will have the Pool A in 2015, (I think.)

  RaLph

JHU has probably earned a no. 2 seed correct? I would think that would leave them in the south or do you think they throw them into a Mount Union Bracket as a two?

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 16, 2013, 11:06:57 PM
Quote from: PA_wesleyfan on November 16, 2013, 10:52:32 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 16, 2013, 10:46:38 PM
Yes, the brackets make sense.  Sorry TLU and Millsaps.  'Saps will have the Pool A in 2015, (I think.)

  RaLph

JHU has probably earned a no. 2 seed correct? I would think that would leave them in the south or do you think they throw them into a Mount Union Bracket as a two?
PA, I like the South Bracket. They handle the geographic difficulties and leave the South intact.  There is nothing in the South this year.  Wash U gets there as a South Pool B but they are closer to the West and the North than the South.

Gallaudet is in DC. Rowan is just up from Wesley.

This is actually the Circumferential Bracket.  Look at the geographical location of these teams.   It is the "southern and eastern underbelly" of the qualifiers.  :)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: @d3jason on November 17, 2013, 05:16:44 PM
"Circumferential." Love it!

Ralph are you inventing words again?

I need to use this in my classroom when I move a student away from peers that are making them less than productive.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: wesleydad on November 17, 2013, 05:47:46 PM
Quote from: cover2 on November 16, 2013, 10:17:37 PM
So, if I'm reading the projections correctly, and seeds hold in the South, that would have UMHB with 2 rematches in the first 2 rounds, correct?  Is that unavoidable or will it matter to the committee?

maybe, maybe not.  It will be interesting to see how they break out the south.  If UMHB has to play Redlands and then Wesley then they would have to feel good about their situation.  But, if Redlands and Wesley are good, they say it is tough to beat a good team twice in the same season.  UMHB is one of the best teams in the country so I don't think they are going to worry about who they play.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: crufootball on November 17, 2013, 06:36:24 PM
Pat seems to be indicating that Mount Union and UW-W are ahead of of UMHB and Bethel for the top #1's. But doesn't order typically follow a top left, bottom right, top right, bottom left pattern meaning it should be Mt. Union then UMHB?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Toby Taff on November 17, 2013, 06:40:39 PM
I'm pretty sure pat's right. Semis in whitewater if all seeds hold.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 17, 2013, 06:42:19 PM
Quote from: @d3jason on November 17, 2013, 05:16:44 PM
"Circumferential." Love it!

Ralph are you inventing words again?

I need to use this in my classroom when I move a student away from peers that are making them less than productive.
Nah, just a standard vocabulary that one learns during the standard D-3 education.   ;)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: wrdad on November 17, 2013, 08:02:07 PM
Mary Hardin-Baylor is in the exact same spot that Mount Union was in last year and Mount was the number 2 overall seed in the playoffs
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 17, 2013, 08:36:48 PM
Welcome wrdad!  +1!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: D O.C. on November 18, 2013, 12:18:29 AM
Congratulations Crusaders.
Hope to see you down the road.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: desertcat1 on November 18, 2013, 09:57:31 AM
Quote from: D O.C. on November 18, 2013, 12:18:29 AM
Congratulations Crusaders.
Hope to see you down the road.


Dal is about 2 hours north but,   AUS  is only 1 hour south... IF needed... ;D
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 22, 2013, 08:40:42 PM
South Region Summary:

WashU lost to Franklin 17-10

Wash & Jeff lost to UMU  34-20

Wesley beat JHU 29-24
Wesley beat Ithaca 23-15
Wesley lost to UMU 62-59

Hampden-Sydney beat Maryville TN 42-34
Hampden-Sydney lost to Linfield 31-21

UMHB beat Redlands 35-7
UMHB beat Rowan 59-8
UMHB beat St John Fisher 45-23
UMHB lost to UWW 16-15


Thanks to Bob Gregg for the correction!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on January 01, 2014, 09:31:28 PM
Ralph, that should be WashJeff lost to UMU 34-20...

WashU lost to Franklin, 17-10
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 18, 2014, 12:24:46 AM
We have 9 South Region teams in the playoffs, distributed in all four brackets!

Pool A:  UMHB (ASC); JHU (Centennial); H-SC (ODAC); Wash & Jeff (Pres AC) CNU (USA South)
Pool B:  Wesley (Independent); TLU (SCAC)
Pool C:  Muhlenberg (Centennial); Centre (SAA)



ARRRGGHHHHH!  I missed on W&J AGAIN!  Sorry. No excuse , sir!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 18, 2014, 08:01:52 AM
Ahhhh.....Washington & Jefferson (PAC) is Pool A, is South Region, and is IN the playoffs, Ralph.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 22, 2014, 11:48:05 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 18, 2014, 12:24:46 AM
We have 9 South Region teams in the playoffs, distributed in all four brackets!

Pool A:  UMHB (ASC); JHU (Centennial); H-SC (ODAC); Wash & Jeff (Pres AC) CNU (USA South)
Pool B:  Wesley (Independent); TLU (SCAC)
Pool C:  Muhlenberg (Centennial); Centre (SAA)

Nine SR teams began. Five move to the Sweet 16:
UMHB to host Linfield
JHU to play at Hobart
Wash & Jeff to play at Mount Union (3rd time since 2009)
CNU to play at Widener
Wesley to host MIT
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 23, 2014, 06:41:51 PM
Props to W&J for dismantling Wittenberg, 41-25!  Great job!  Witt's late 31-yard drive for a TD kept it from being a "monkey stomp".  (East Region fans define a "monkey stomp" as a 21-point win.)

The South Region went 5-4 out of a possible 7-2!  Only Centre at UMU was blown out and Muhlenberg almost picked up the upset at Widener! 

Very strong showing in the South.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 23, 2014, 06:44:23 PM
Quote from: Bob.Gregg on November 22, 2014, 11:48:05 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 18, 2014, 12:24:46 AM
We have 9 South Region teams in the playoffs, distributed in all four brackets!

Pool A:  UMHB (ASC); JHU (Centennial); H-SC (ODAC); Wash & Jeff (Pres AC) CNU (USA South)
Pool B:  Wesley (Independent); TLU (SCAC)
Pool C:  Muhlenberg (Centennial); Centre (SAA)

Nine SR teams began. Five move to the Sweet 16:
UMHB to host Linfield  (West)
JHU to play at Hobart  (East)
Wash & Jeff to play at Mount Union (North)  (3rd time since 2009)
CNU to play at Widener  (East)
Wesley to host MIT  (East)
Props to the National Selection Committee!

Everyone of those 5 games is an inter-region game!  It is not too far a reach for the South Region to have 4 of the 8 in the Quarterfinals.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 06, 2016, 04:42:09 PM
Starting up this topic again. 
First Regional Rankings came out on 11/02.

South Region   
1. Mary Hardin-Baylor 8-0 8-0 then beat Belhaven
2. Johns Hopkins 8-0 8-0  then beat  F&M; Clinched the Centennial Pool A bid.
3. Hardin-Simmons 7-1 5-1 then beat ETBU soundly
4. Case Western Reserve 8-0 8-0  then beat a solid Westminster PA team
5. Thomas More 8-1 8-1  Finished the season at 9-1
6. Muhlenberg 7-1 7-1  then beat Ursinus
7. Berry 7-1 7-1      then beat Birmingham Southern. (Wash U must lose at Chicago for Berry to stay in the hunt for a Pool A bid.)
8. Maryville 7-1 7-1  Lost to Huntingdon.
9. East Texas Baptist 7-1 5-1 Lost to HSU.
10. Randolph-Macon 7-1 7-1  Beat  Guilford; can clinch the ODAC Pool A with a win over Hampden-Sydney in "The Game".

USA South -- Huntingdon can clinch the Pool A with a win at Averett.
SAA -- Centre can clinch the Pool A bid with a win over Berry
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Bob.Gregg on November 06, 2016, 05:14:33 PM
per the PAC ED, Thomas More is the AQ.  CWRU is in the Pool C hunt. Officially.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: E.115 on November 07, 2016, 02:12:13 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 06, 2016, 04:42:09 PM

SAA -- Centre can clinch the Pool A bid with a win over Berry

And WashU clinches the SAA Pool A bid with a Berry win over Centre, correct?  (Assuming they defeat Chicago)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 07, 2016, 10:53:57 AM
Quote from: E.115 on November 07, 2016, 02:12:13 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 06, 2016, 04:42:09 PM

SAA -- Centre can clinch the Pool A bid with a win over Berry

And WashU clinches the SAA Pool A bid with a Berry win over Centre, correct?  (Assuming they defeat Chicago)
Yes.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Hawks88 on November 07, 2016, 11:37:26 AM
Quote from: E.115 on November 07, 2016, 02:12:13 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 06, 2016, 04:42:09 PM

SAA -- Centre can clinch the Pool A bid with a win over Berry

And WashU clinches the SAA Pool A bid with a Berry win over Centre, correct?  (Assuming they defeat Chicago)
And Berry would get the Pool A bid with a win over Centre AND a Chicago win over WashU.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: E.115 on November 07, 2016, 06:00:02 PM
Quote from: Hawks88 on November 07, 2016, 11:37:26 AM
Quote from: E.115 on November 07, 2016, 02:12:13 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 06, 2016, 04:42:09 PM

SAA -- Centre can clinch the Pool A bid with a win over Berry

And WashU clinches the SAA Pool A bid with a Berry win over Centre, correct?  (Assuming they defeat Chicago)
And Berry would get the Pool A bid with a win over Centre AND a Chicago win over WashU.

Good point.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BerryCollegeFan on November 08, 2016, 01:31:05 PM
Are the regional rankings published every Wednesday until the brackets are set?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: ADL70 on November 08, 2016, 01:59:21 PM
The RR after week 11 are not published or otherwise announced.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: desertcat1 on November 16, 2016, 11:39:58 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on November 08, 2016, 01:59:21 PM
The RR after week 11 are not published or otherwise announced.


Surprise , surprise :o

Not this year..  thanks NCAA.. :-* 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Hawks88 on November 16, 2016, 04:00:08 PM
Quote from: desertcat1 on November 16, 2016, 11:39:58 AM
Quote from: ADL70 on November 08, 2016, 01:59:21 PM
The RR after week 11 are not published or otherwise announced.


Surprise , surprise :o

Not this year..  thanks NCAA.. :-*
They did this year...http://www.d3football.com/playoffs/2016/final-regional-ranking
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: D O.C. on November 16, 2016, 06:03:25 PM
Wow! Look at that UMU .490 SOS.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 17, 2016, 01:12:00 AM
Quote from: D O.C. on November 16, 2016, 06:03:25 PM
Wow! Look at that UMU .490 SOS.

Are you the last to hear? :)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: D O.C. on November 17, 2016, 01:57:46 AM
Nope. I just educated a bunch more casual readers who hop on at playoff time.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: SaintsFAN on November 17, 2016, 07:51:02 AM
RE:  Mount Union's SOS from http://loganahansen21.wixsite.com/hansen-ratings/single-post/2016/03/13/A-Treatise-on-Strength-of-Schedule

Excluding the PAC and MWC, every conference plays a round-robin style regular season schedule. If we were to calculate a conference-only SoS using the NCAA's system, the conference's average SoS would always be 0.500 (because it's a closed loop; there has to be one victory for every loss). But not all coferences are created equal. The NCAA obviously recognizes this, and uses the OOWP metric to try to get some indication of a team's schedule relative to the nation, but the limited number of non-conference games for some teams again skews their results.
The UMAC does not field very competitive football teams on the national scale (they regularly rank last or second-to-last in my system and in d3football.com's conference rankings). The UMAC also plays a nine game conference schedule, meaning each team only plays one non-conference game per year. Here's a list of their teams' SoS as calculated by the NCAA in 2015:


Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BerryCollegeFan on October 26, 2018, 02:50:28 PM
I guess it is time for the first regional rankings next week.  This Saturday would be the final games to impress the rankings.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 27, 2018, 05:26:13 PM
Here is an excellent podcast that explains the playoffs.  I strongly recommend it for anyone who has questions, or who wants a refresher.

http://www.d3blogs.com/d3football/2018/10/25/around-the-nation-podcast-216-committee-chair-explains-it-all/
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: E.115 on October 28, 2018, 01:41:16 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 27, 2018, 05:26:13 PM
Here is an excellent podcast that explains the playoffs.  I strongly recommend it for anyone who has questions, or who wants a refresher.

http://www.d3blogs.com/d3football/2018/10/25/around-the-nation-podcast-216-committee-chair-explains-it-all/

Area code for Case Western Reserve is 216... I'm thinking it's a good omen for the Spartans.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 03, 2018, 05:31:18 PM
I just hope that the bracket has the chance for UMHB or HSU (or both) to meet Berry.  Now that Wesley is gone, UMHB seems to be sent West.

It has been a long time since the ASC has played from eastern time zone of the South Region.

Here are ASC opponents from the South Region in the post season. (Partial listing of other games.)

2017 UMHB - None; HSU None
         HSU   -  Loss at Linfield 13-27
2016 UMHB - None: HSU None
         HSU  -  Loss at Linfield 10-24
2015 UMHB - HSU round 1; Huntingdon round 2
         HSU  --- Loss at UMHB
2014 UMHB - TLU (Pool B) round 1
2013 UMHB - None
2012 UMHB - Louisiana College round 1; Wesley round 3 (W)
        LaColl
2011 UMHB - McMurry round 2; Wesley round 3 (L);
         McM      McMurry Trinity (W)
2010 UMHB - CNU (59-7) Thomas More (69-7) Wesley (9-19)
2009 UMHB - None
        Miss Coll Huntingdon 56-35; - round 2 Wesley 9-43
2008 UMHB - HSU 38-35; round 2 Wesley 46-14; Round 3 W&J 63-7
                    HSU Loss to UMHB in round 1
2007 UMHB - Trinity TX 52-23; round 2 NCWC 64-0; round 3 Wesley 27-10
2006 UMHB - HSU 33-21; W&J 30-27; Wesley 20-34
2005 UMHB - Trinity 35-6; Wesley 36-46
2004 UMHB - Trinity 32-13; HSU 42-28; W&J 52-16
                  - HSU bye first round
2003 ETBU - Trinity 42-41; Lycoming 7-13
2002 UMHB - Trinity 38-48
2001 HSU    - loss at Wittenberg 35-38
2000 HSU    - McDaniel 32-10; Trinity TX 33-30
1999 HSU   - WashUStL 28-21; W&J 51-3; Trinity TX (loss 33-40)

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: BerryCollegeFan on November 05, 2018, 10:16:28 AM
it seems there was a change sometime around 2013/14.  Do you think it is just a lack of teams in travel distance in South or is it the need to find teams for the west bracket?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: MUC57 on November 05, 2018, 10:31:49 AM

Berry fans

Congrats on winning your conference's AQ. Wish you well in the playoffs whoever you face. Nice to see some newer teams doing well. Of course, don't mind an older Mount Union team also doing well!
Go Vikings!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 25, 2018, 05:01:59 PM
Update

Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 03, 2018, 05:31:18 PM
I just hope that the bracket has the chance for UMHB or HSU (or both) to meet Berry.  Now that Wesley is gone, UMHB seems to be sent West.

It has been a long time since the ASC has played from eastern time zone of the South Region.

Here are ASC opponents from the South Region in the post season. (Partial listing of other games.)

2021 UMHB - Trinity
2019 UMHB - Rounds 2; Huntingdon; 42-6
2018 UMHB - HSU 27-6; Berry 75-9
         HSU -  Loss to UMHB
2017 UMHB - None; HSU None
         HSU   -  Loss at Linfield 13-27
2016 UMHB - None: HSU None
         HSU  -  Loss at Linfield 10-24
2015 UMHB - HSU round 1; Huntingdon round 2 43-23
         HSU  --- Loss at UMHB 19-37
2014 UMHB - TLU (Pool B) 27-20 round 1
2013 UMHB - None
2012 UMHB - Louisiana College round 1; Wesley round 3 (W)
        LaColl  --- Lost at 20-59
2011 UMHB - McMurry round 2; Wesley round 3 (L);
         McM      McMurry Trinity (W)
2010 UMHB - CNU (59-7) Thomas More (69-7) Wesley (9-19)
2009 UMHB - None
        Miss Coll Huntingdon 56-35; - round 2 Wesley 9-43
2008 UMHB - HSU 38-35; round 2 Wesley 46-14; Round 3 W&J 63-7
                    HSU Loss to UMHB in round 1
2007 UMHB - Trinity TX 52-23; round 2 NCWC 64-0; round 3 Wesley 27-10
2006 UMHB - HSU 33-21; W&J 30-27; Wesley 20-34
2005 UMHB - Trinity 35-6; Wesley 36-46
2004 UMHB - Trinity 32-13; HSU 42-28; W&J 52-16
                  - HSU bye first round
2003 ETBU - Trinity 42-41; Lycoming 7-13
2002 UMHB - Loss at Trinity 38-48
2001 HSU    - Loss at Wittenberg 35-38
2000 HSU    - McDaniel 32-10; Trinity TX 33-30
1999 HSU   - WashUStL 28-21; W&J 51-3; Trinity TX (loss 33-40)
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 25, 2018, 05:02:48 PM
Congrats to JHU, Muhlenberg and UMHB making it to the Round of 8.

I really like JHU's chances. They were fortunate to be sent to a heavily-East Region populated bracket.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: D O.C. on November 27, 2018, 02:54:07 AM
Yes, they were.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: wally_wabash on November 27, 2018, 08:31:52 AM
I'm sure you guys do actually know where Johns Hopkins is located on a globe.  It's not luck that got them grouped with the teams they're grouped with. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 27, 2018, 12:08:16 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 25, 2018, 05:02:48 PM
Congrats to JHU, Muhlenberg and UMHB making it to the Round of 8.

I really like JHU's chances. They were fortunate to be sent to a heavily-East Region populated bracket.
Quote from: D O.C. on November 27, 2018, 02:54:07 AM
Yes, they were.
Quote from: wally_wabash on November 27, 2018, 08:31:52 AM
I'm sure you guys do actually know where Johns Hopkins is located on a globe.  It's not luck that got them grouped with the teams they're grouped with. 
That is one time when geographic proximity worked to the favor of a South Region team.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: wally_wabash on November 27, 2018, 01:13:35 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 27, 2018, 12:08:16 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 25, 2018, 05:02:48 PM
Congrats to JHU, Muhlenberg and UMHB making it to the Round of 8.

I really like JHU's chances. They were fortunate to be sent to a heavily-East Region populated bracket.
Quote from: D O.C. on November 27, 2018, 02:54:07 AM
Yes, they were.
Quote from: wally_wabash on November 27, 2018, 08:31:52 AM
I'm sure you guys do actually know where Johns Hopkins is located on a globe.  It's not luck that got them grouped with the teams they're grouped with. 
That is one time when geographic proximity worked to the favor of a South Region team.

You know, something that might need revisiting are the geographic regional designations.  How much sense does it really make for the PAC to be "south"?  I'm going to do a little side project here and get back to you in a little bit. 

I'm back.  So I re-regionalized the conferences in a way that I think more closely mirrors how we've been grouping things together in the tournament.  My four new regions are:

Region 1 - 6 conferences, one IND, 58 total teams:
CC
Thomas More
MAC
OAC
ODAC
PAC
USASC

Region 2 - 8 conferences, 65 teams, NESCAC included:
CCC
ECFC
E8
LL
MASCAC
NESCAC
NEWMAC
NJAC

Region 3 - 7 conferences, 65 teams:
CCIW
HCAC
MIAA
MWC
NCAC
NACC
WIAC

Region 4 - 7 conferences, 62 teams:
ARC
ASC
MIAC
NWC
SAA
SCIAC
UMAC

Fairly balanced, right?  Regions 1-3 make good sense geographically.  Region 4 makes no sense geographically, but why wouldn't it make sense to take your island leagues and group them together?  That's what is being done pretty routinely for the tournament.  So instead of being every year at how the NCAA is cheaping out by lumping all of the flying teams into the same quadrant, we can just use that as a starting point and stop being mad about it every single November. 

It's really just not possible to do much about the cluster of lower-ranked conferences from New England.  There isn't a reasonable way to spread them out.  So for better or worse, that northeast area is just always going to be unpalatable for those that follow the divison's powerhouses.  No way around that. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: MRMIKESMITH on November 27, 2018, 02:16:40 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on November 27, 2018, 01:13:35 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 27, 2018, 12:08:16 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 25, 2018, 05:02:48 PM
Congrats to JHU, Muhlenberg and UMHB making it to the Round of 8.

I really like JHU's chances. They were fortunate to be sent to a heavily-East Region populated bracket.
Quote from: D O.C. on November 27, 2018, 02:54:07 AM
Yes, they were.
Quote from: wally_wabash on November 27, 2018, 08:31:52 AM
I'm sure you guys do actually know where Johns Hopkins is located on a globe.  It's not luck that got them grouped with the teams they're grouped with. 
That is one time when geographic proximity worked to the favor of a South Region team.

You know, something that might need revisiting are the geographic regional designations.  How much sense does it really make for the PAC to be "south"?  I'm going to do a little side project here and get back to you in a little bit. 

I'm back.  So I re-regionalized the conferences in a way that I think more closely mirrors how we've been grouping things together in the tournament.  My four new regions are:

Region 1 - 67 conferences, one IND, 58 total teams:
CC
Thomas MoreNJAC
MAC
OAC
ODAC
PAC
USASC

Region 2 - 87 conferences, 65 teams, NESCAC included:
CCC
ECFC
E8
LL
MASCAC
NESCAC
NEWMAC
NJAC

Region 3 - 7 conferences, 65 teams:
CCIW
HCAC
MIAA
MWC
NCAC
NACC
WIAC

Region 4 - 7 conferences, 62 teams:
ARC
ASC
MIAC
NWC
SAA
SCIAC
UMAC

Fairly balanced, right?  Regions 1-3 make good sense geographically.  Region 4 makes no sense geographically, but why wouldn't it make sense to take your island leagues and group them together?  That's what is being done pretty routinely for the tournament.  So instead of being every year at how the NCAA is cheaping out by lumping all of the flying teams into the same quadrant, we can just use that as a starting point and stop being mad about it every single November. 

It's really just not possible to do much about the cluster of lower-ranked conferences from New England.  There isn't a reasonable way to spread them out.  So for better or worse, that northeast area is just always going to be unpalatable for those that follow the divison's powerhouses.  No way around that.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: wally_wabash on November 27, 2018, 02:27:44 PM
My first pass had exactly what you've edited to there, MANDGSU.  I moved NJAC to Region 2 to provide a little bit more balance to the northeast leauges in that region.  I don't think a region with the E8, the NJAC, and the LL is all that soft.  But I think you need all three there juxtaposed with the northeast conferences to make it work. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: crufootball on November 27, 2018, 03:17:19 PM
Is this something that is possible? Are the regions ever shaken up for any reason?
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: HScoach on November 27, 2018, 03:18:40 PM
Wally:  I like it.  When I become Grand Poobah Of All Things Known To Man, you will be my first cabinet appointment as Czar Of D3 Football. 

Not surprisingly that makes much more sense than what the NCAA does.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: wally_wabash on November 27, 2018, 03:26:24 PM
Quote from: crufootball on November 27, 2018, 03:17:19 PM
Is this something that is possible? Are the regions ever shaken up for any reason?

Sure.  Conferences have been reclassified in the not-too-distant past.  The MAC used to be a South region conference as Ralph has noted somewhere around here recently.  The only thing preventing the D-III presidents from doing this is probably some burning desire to fix something that really isn't that big of a problem to begin with.   :)  But it could be done with some legislation at NCAA meeting time. 

Another option would be to increase the number of regions to, say, six like they do in other sports.  But that doesn't really solve the map problem at tournament time.  No matter how you cluster the different conferences together into regions, the ASC schools are still only 500 miles within one another and nobody else. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 27, 2018, 07:53:55 PM
Wally, I was delightfully greeted by your re-alignment of the regions.  +1!

Practically, that is the way that it works when brackets are published.

The ASC has not played SJU since HSU's loss to the Johnnies in 2000.

As for the SAA, five of the members are practically in the "West", i.e., Austin College and Trinity in Texas, Hendrix in Conway AR, Rhodes in Memphis TN and Millsaps in Jackson MS

UMHB has played the ARC in playoff games in the past.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 29, 2018, 05:20:22 PM
Baseball has eight regions, but is set up somewhat like this, with the Texas and West Coast teams in the same region.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 03, 2018, 11:01:52 AM
How about that?

Two South Region teams are in the semi-finals, UMHB & JHU.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: retagent on December 03, 2018, 03:41:01 PM
Thomas More will no longer be a D III football program next year.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 09, 2022, 06:15:18 PM
Going to revive this board for the playoff games involving Region 3...

...awfully nice of the committee to give a "tie" for 7th!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Hawks88 on November 09, 2022, 06:59:59 PM
Why does it have Huntingdon as 7-1 vs D3? All of our games are D3. Unless they are only counting in region but the header doesn't say that and they have Linfield at 8-0 so they have that game counting for them.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 09, 2022, 09:48:20 PM
Going to be like old times with HSU probably going to Trinity.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Hawks88 on November 10, 2022, 07:16:05 AM
Here's bit that I had wondered about but never checked on. Coach Turk mentioned on his radio show last night that Huntingdon has not actually clinched yet. Because Belhaven is playing everyone in the conference and will have 8 conference games while all other teams are skipping one(because of the week 3 ODAC-USAC challenge) they will end up 7-1 with a win this week. If we were to lose and end up 6-1 then Belhaven would win the conference.
Just more incentive to make sure we take care of business against Lagrange.

Go Hawks!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 10, 2022, 09:29:39 AM
Pat and Greg talk to the national selection committee chair in a special edition of the ATN Podcast (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?action=post;topic=4102.2325;last_msg=2060223) and one of the questions they asked was (paraphrased) "what do you do when the regional committees game the system".  What I found most interesting was that the chair went immediately to Region 3 as his example (and Pat redirected him to other regions where there was more potential gaming going on). 

The chair also addressed the "why does region 3 get eight ranked teams when everyone else only got seven" and many other questions. 
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Etchglow on November 10, 2022, 10:15:09 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 10, 2022, 09:29:39 AM
Pat and Greg talk to the national selection committee chair in a special edition of the ATN Podcast (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?action=post;topic=4102.2325;last_msg=2060223) and one of the questions they asked was (paraphrased) "what do you do when the regional committees game the system".  What I found most interesting was that the chair went immediately to Region 3 as his example (and Pat redirected him to other regions where there was more potential gaming going on). 

The chair also addressed the "why does region 3 get eight ranked teams when everyone else only got seven" and many other questions.

I think he is a r3 guy so that's why he went to r3. I think it is kind of funny that he went to "oh we're not putting Hsu at #2" instead of the whole ranking 8 teams in a list that is supposed to be 7.  I thought his defense of ranking 8 was rather weak as well...
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Hawks88 on November 10, 2022, 10:47:06 AM
If there is a question about #7 it should really be between Bridgewater and Belhaven. Birmingham-Southern should easily be #6.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Wild Horse Rider on November 10, 2022, 01:33:36 PM
HSU has a pretty good shot I think at one of the at large bids.  From the best I could tell there are 8 solid candidates before the week 11 games.  I know upsets can happen so this is just assuming chalk:

Region 1 best candidate- Kings (8-1) 1 RR loss to Del Valley and 1 RR win to Stevenson
Region 2 best candidate- Johns Hopkins (8-1) 1 RR loss to Susquehanna
Region 3 best candidate- Hardin-Simmons (7-1) 1 RR loss UMHB and 1 RR win UW Platteville
Region 4 best candidate- EITHER loser of Albion/Alma this weekend who will have 1 RR and a (9-1) record loss OR John Carroll (7-1) 1 RR loss Mount Union 1 RR win Baldwin Wallace
Region 5 best candidate- Wheaton (7-2) 2 RR losses Trinity and North Central and 1 RR win Wash U
Region 6 best candidates (could have two here)- UW Whitewater 2 RR losses St Johns and UW Platteville and 2 RR wins UMHB and UW Oshkosh.  The loser of the Bethel/St Johns game will have 1 RR win and 2 RR losses

I don't know what order the teams will come off the board this sunday for the at large bids but I would expect:

Hardin-Simmons, Wheaton, UWW, St Johns/Bethel, and I am very torn on the 5th team.  I think the best resume would be Kings or Johns Carroll but Johns Hopkins wouldn't surprise me.  Clearly I could be off or missing some better teams but that is what my untrained eye saw.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: jakeMN91 on November 10, 2022, 05:33:22 PM
Quote from: Wild Horse Rider on November 10, 2022, 01:33:36 PM
HSU has a pretty good shot I think at one of the at large bids.  From the best I could tell there are 8 solid candidates before the week 11 games.  I know upsets can happen so this is just assuming chalk:

Region 1 best candidate- Kings (8-1) 1 RR loss to Del Valley and 1 RR win to Stevenson
Region 2 best candidate- Johns Hopkins (8-1) 1 RR loss to Susquehanna
Region 3 best candidate- Hardin-Simmons (7-1) 1 RR loss UMHB and 1 RR win UW Platteville
Region 4 best candidate- EITHER loser of Albion/Alma this weekend who will have 1 RR and a (9-1) record loss OR John Carroll (7-1) 1 RR loss Mount Union 1 RR win Baldwin Wallace
Region 5 best candidate- Wheaton (7-2) 2 RR losses Trinity and North Central and 1 RR win Wash U
Region 6 best candidates (could have two here)- UW Whitewater 2 RR losses St Johns and UW Platteville and 2 RR wins UMHB and UW Oshkosh.  The loser of the Bethel/St Johns game will have 1 RR win and 2 RR losses

I don't know what order the teams will come off the board this sunday for the at large bids but I would expect:

Hardin-Simmons, Wheaton, UWW, St Johns/Bethel, and I am very torn on the 5th team.  I think the best resume would be Kings or Johns Carroll but Johns Hopkins wouldn't surprise me.  Clearly I could be off or missing some better teams but that is what my untrained eye saw.

Regarding your at-large candidates in Region 6, it is my understanding that UWW will get the auto-bid with a win this weekend since they have the head-to-head win over UW-Lacrosse. Lacrosse would then be the top at-large team from the WIAC.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Wild Horse Rider on November 10, 2022, 06:07:08 PM
Brain fart.  You are correct.  Thanks Jake
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Cowboy2 on November 10, 2022, 11:37:55 PM
Quote from: Wild Horse Rider on November 10, 2022, 06:07:08 PM
Brain fart.  You are correct.  Thanks Jake

Half wrong. If UWW loses (never know) they would be the second selection for a pool c team for R6.

But yes most likely UWL will be the candidate.

I think based on the bethel situation last year Wheaton gets in on that resume and SOS.

HSU has got to have UWP win and stay in. Their SOS isn't great enough to use no did they have a close game against UMHB

Committee loves Hopkins

JCU in my opinion isn't as good of a choice as BSC or Wash U for a two loss team...but both have someone high ranked in conference ahead of them to be even discussed

Should be a wild selection day
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 10, 2022, 11:48:06 PM
Quote from: Cowboy2 on November 10, 2022, 11:37:55 PM
Quote from: Wild Horse Rider on November 10, 2022, 06:07:08 PM
Brain fart.  You are correct.  Thanks Jake

Half wrong. If UWW loses (never know) they would be the selection for a pool c team for R6.

But yes most likely UWL will be the candidate.

I think based on the bethel situation last year Wheaton gets in on that resume and SOS.

HSU has got to have UWP win and stay in. Their SOS isn't great enough to use no did they have a close game against UMHB

Committee loves Hopkins

JCU in my opinion isn't as good of a choice as BSC or Wash U for a two loss team...but both have someone high ranked in conference ahead of them to be even discussed

Should be a wild selection day
Yes.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: tigerguy on November 13, 2022, 05:42:38 PM
Welp - another gauntlet of a southern bracket. Pretty tough pill to swallow to see 5 of the top 9 teams in one quadrant, whereas Mount Union's quadrant has....just them. Sigh.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: tigerguy on November 13, 2022, 06:11:22 PM
Quote from: tigerguy on November 13, 2022, 05:42:38 PM
Welp - another gauntlet of a southern bracket. Pretty tough pill to swallow to see 5 of the top 9 teams in one quadrant, whereas Mount Union's quadrant has....just them. Sigh.

Shouldn't have stopped looking. North Central's quadrant is even breezier. Sheesh. Geography, man.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: D3Navy on November 13, 2022, 06:22:05 PM
Will be nice to have playoff football back at EM Stevens Stadium.  The fan support has been outstanding this year and Saturday should be amazing.  It'll also be fun to have a loaded visitor side.

Trinity needs to jazz up the offense a bit to advance.  Special teams and defense have carried the load this year.  The 2nd half against Sewanee yesterday was very promising.  It revealed a lot of depth and a stable of superb quarterbacks (keep an eye on Dez Thomas over the next few years!).

Can't wait for Saturday!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 13, 2022, 06:26:20 PM
I hope that the World Famous Cowboy Band makes the trip.

That should be a great game.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: wildcat11 on November 13, 2022, 06:28:07 PM
The Mount Union and North Central bracket are something.

When that talking head alluded to a fiscal responsible bracket I knew TX/West Coast was gonna get all thrown together.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: tigerguy on November 13, 2022, 06:30:50 PM
Quote from: D3Navy on November 13, 2022, 06:22:05 PM
Will be nice to have playoff football back at EM Stevens Stadium.  The fan support has been outstanding this year and Saturday should be amazing.  It'll also be fun to have a loaded visitor side.

Trinity needs to jazz up the offense a bit to advance.  Special teams and defense have carried the load this year.  The 2nd half against Sewanee yesterday was very promising.  It revealed a lot of depth and a stable of superb quarterbacks (keep an eye on Dez Thomas over the next few years!).

Can't wait for Saturday!

Trinity should be at full strength with their offensive weapons for the first time since week one. Would have liked to see the first team offense play more against Sewanee to knock off the rust, but two special teams touchdowns and a blowout left few offensive plays all together before the backups came in. Hopefully things finally start coming together though.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: MonroviaCat on November 13, 2022, 06:35:39 PM
Quote from: wildcat11 on November 13, 2022, 06:28:07 PM
The Mount Union and North Central bracket are something.

When that talking head opened up saying alluding to a fiscal responsible bracket I knew TX/West Coast was gonna get all thrown together.
Once I saw St. John's at #1 I knew it, too.  And I'm not saying giving St. John's that spot was a bad call.  I do think they could easily have swapped Mt. Union and Linfield (and the teams in their half of the quads) to reward Linfield for having the tougher SOS and not winning their last game by dumb luck....but what do I know? ???
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: wildcat11 on November 13, 2022, 06:47:25 PM
Quote from: MonroviaCat on November 13, 2022, 06:35:39 PM
Quote from: wildcat11 on November 13, 2022, 06:28:07 PM
The Mount Union and North Central bracket are something.

When that talking head opened up saying alluding to a fiscal responsible bracket I knew TX/West Coast was gonna get all thrown together.
Once I saw St. John's at #1 I knew it, too.  And I'm not saying giving St. John's that spot was a bad call.  I do think they could easily have swapped Mt. Union and Linfield (and the teams in their half of the quads) to reward Linfield for having the tougher SOS and not winning their last game by dumb luck....but what do I know? ???

Having a ball bounce off a defender's head for a last second Hail Mary to beat a 7-2 Baldwin Wallace = Cakewalk to the NCAA Semi's.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 14, 2022, 03:49:15 PM
I looked up Trinity's games against the ASC in post-season play.


Year........Team......Score....W/L....
1999HSU40-33Win
2000at HSU30-33Loss
2001UMHB30-6Win
2002UMHB48-38Win
2003at ETBU41-42Loss
2004UMHB13-32Loss
2005UMHB6-35Loss
2011McM16-25Loss
2021at UMHB3-13Loss

Looking forward to this one.


Of course, most of us believe this is not your mother's Trinity team. Coach Urban will have them ready.
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 20, 2022, 03:58:49 PM
I looked up Trinity's games against the ASC in post-season play.


Year........Team......Score....W/L....
1999HSU40-33Win
2000at HSU30-33Loss
2001UMHB30-6Win
2002UMHB48-38Win
2003at ETBU41-42Loss
2004UMHB13-32Loss
2005UMHB6-35Loss
2011McM16-25Loss
2021at UMHB3-13Loss
2022HSU14-7Win
2022UMHB......

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 20, 2022, 04:00:42 PM
Nice win by Randy Mac.

I really want to see how they do against Del Valley!
Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Cowboy2 on November 20, 2022, 06:19:37 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 20, 2022, 03:58:49 PM
I looked up Trinity's games against the ASC in post-season play.


Year........Team......Score....W/L....
1999HSU40-33Win
2000at HSU30-33Loss
2001UMHB30-6Win
2002UMHB48-38Win
2003at ETBU41-42Loss
2004UMHB13-32Loss
2005UMHB6-35Loss
2011McM16-25Loss
2021at UMHB3-13Loss
2022HSU14-7Win
2022UMHB......

UMHB also took a game in 2007 against Trinity
https://www.scacsports.com/sports/fball/2007-08/stats/TUNCAA1.HTM

Title: Re: South Region playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 20, 2022, 08:02:20 PM
I looked up Trinity's games against the ASC in post-season play.
(Thanks to Cowboy2. +1)

Year........Team......Score....W/L....
1999HSU40-33Win
2000at HSU30-33Loss
2001UMHB30-6Win
2002UMHB48-38Win
2003at ETBU41-42Loss
2004UMHB13-32Loss
2005UMHB6-35Loss
2007at UMHB23-52Loss
2011McM16-25Loss
2021at UMHB3-13Loss
2022HSU14-7Win
2022UMHB......