MBB: NESCAC

Started by cameltime, April 27, 2005, 02:38:16 PM

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nescac1

#24000
This was posted on the Top 25 board, so folks may have missed it, but quite an impressive haul of transfers for Babson.  Looks like they will again be a regional force (and they always play a lot of NESCAC teams, who may have been hoping for a down year after Flannery's graduation ... but perhaps that won't happen with this incoming group).   Babson seems to be relying more and more heavily on transfers rather than first-year recruits, which is interesting.  Obviously it worked out pretty well for them last season, with two higher-division transfers playing major roles in the NCAA tourney. 

"I did want to shed some light on Babson for 2017-18... They return the starting point guard from the six NCAA tournament games and two All-Conference players in Nick Comenale and Bradley Jacks... And they added three Division I transfers. Graham Dolan, who redshirted last season at U Buffalo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGaJakR6D98), Brandon Johnson, a two year player at Boston University (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brjGRJEx9Pk), and Tim Hasbargen, a transfer from Cleveland State who played nine minutes a game and shot 40% from 3 in the Horizon League as a sophomore. The freshman is Andrew Jaworski who averaged over 30 points per game in the state tournament (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iw-uq1qlLVo). So maybe don't sleep so hard on the Beavers..."

[I do note, on the other hand, that so far as I can tell all three of these players started their D1 careers as walk-ons, and none have played major roles on the court, so the talent infusion may not be as scary as "three D1 transfers" might typically connote ... I'd be surprised actually if any were in Flannery's league as a player ... Jaworski is also very interesting, at least based on highlights his playing style looks eerily reminiscent of Flannery's, minus an inch or two and perhaps a bit less athletic, but skill-wise, quite similar]. 


P'bearfan

Quote from: nescac1 on August 28, 2017, 12:21:04 PM
This was posted on the Top 25 board, so folks may have missed it, but quite an impressive haul of transfers for Babson.  Looks like they will again be a regional force (and they always play a lot of NESCAC teams, who may have been hoping for a down year after Flannery's graduation ... but perhaps that won't happen with this incoming group).   Babson seems to be relying more and more heavily on transfers rather than first-year recruits, which is interesting.  Obviously it worked out pretty well for them last season, with two higher-division transfers playing major roles in the NCAA tourney. 

"I did want to shed some light on Babson for 2017-18... They return the starting point guard from the six NCAA tournament games and two All-Conference players in Nick Comenale and Bradley Jacks... And they added three Division I transfers. Graham Dolan, who redshirted last season at U Buffalo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGaJakR6D98), Brandon Johnson, a two year player at Boston University (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brjGRJEx9Pk), and Tim Hasbargen, a transfer from Cleveland State who played nine minutes a game and shot 40% from 3 in the Horizon League as a sophomore. The freshman is Andrew Jaworski who averaged over 30 points per game in the state tournament (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iw-uq1qlLVo). So maybe don't sleep so hard on the Beavers..."

[I do note, on the other hand, that so far as I can tell all three of these players started their D1 careers as walk-ons, and none have played major roles on the court, so the talent infusion may not be as scary as "three D1 transfers" might typically connote ... I'd be surprised actually if any were in Flannery's league as a player ... Jaworski is also very interesting, at least based on highlights his playing style looks eerily reminiscent of Flannery's, minus an inch or two and perhaps a bit less athletic, but skill-wise, quite similar].

nescac1 - interesting post.  Thanks for the update.

Are there any NESCAC teams that regularly (or semi-regularly) recruit transfers?  Amherst of course has had two recent D1 transfers.  Any others?  I don't have a clear picture of Bowdoin's history with transfers but the last one I'm aware of was in the very late '90s / early 2000's.

ronk

Quote from: P'bearfan on August 29, 2017, 06:58:15 AM
Quote from: nescac1 on August 28, 2017, 12:21:04 PM
This was posted on the Top 25 board, so folks may have missed it, but quite an impressive haul of transfers for Babson.  Looks like they will again be a regional force (and they always play a lot of NESCAC teams, who may have been hoping for a down year after Flannery's graduation ... but perhaps that won't happen with this incoming group).   Babson seems to be relying more and more heavily on transfers rather than first-year recruits, which is interesting.  Obviously it worked out pretty well for them last season, with two higher-division transfers playing major roles in the NCAA tourney. 

"I did want to shed some light on Babson for 2017-18... They return the starting point guard from the six NCAA tournament games and two All-Conference players in Nick Comenale and Bradley Jacks... And they added three Division I transfers. Graham Dolan, who redshirted last season at U Buffalo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGaJakR6D98), Brandon Johnson, a two year player at Boston University (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brjGRJEx9Pk), and Tim Hasbargen, a transfer from Cleveland State who played nine minutes a game and shot 40% from 3 in the Horizon League as a sophomore. The freshman is Andrew Jaworski who averaged over 30 points per game in the state tournament (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iw-uq1qlLVo). So maybe don't sleep so hard on the Beavers..."

[I do note, on the other hand, that so far as I can tell all three of these players started their D1 careers as walk-ons, and none have played major roles on the court, so the talent infusion may not be as scary as "three D1 transfers" might typically connote ... I'd be surprised actually if any were in Flannery's league as a player ... Jaworski is also very interesting, at least based on highlights his playing style looks eerily reminiscent of Flannery's, minus an inch or two and perhaps a bit less athletic, but skill-wise, quite similar].

nescac1 - interesting post.  Thanks for the update.

Are there any NESCAC teams that regularly (or semi-regularly) recruit transfers?  Amherst of course has had two recent D1 transfers.  Any others?  I don't have a clear picture of Bowdoin's history with transfers but the last one I'm aware of was in the very late '90s / early 2000's.

I suspect that many transfers are players that were originally recruited in high/prep school by the D3 coaching staff but chose the scholarship-level instead, rather than the staff now scouring social media for previously unrecruited by them players who are now seeking to transfer. 

nescac1

ronk, I think that is largely true in general.  But there are definitely a small handful of successful programs that seem to embrace a model of bringing in a high volume of high-impact, high-profile transfers, and for those schools I imagine that many of the players they are bringing in were not folks that their staffs were focused on when they were in high school.  Wisconsin-Whitewater (its three top players last year were all scholarship guys transferring down), Albertus Magnus, Neumann and Cabrini (until its coach left a few years ago) all come to mind as perpetually strong programs in that category.  Those schools are bringing in major talents from the JC or D1 / D2 level who I doubt were focused on Division 3 when they were in high school.  I am sure there are some others as well.   I'm not sure where Babson fits -- on the one hand, Babson has now had five D1/D2 transfers in the last three years, plus at least one more who was offered (KJ Garrett, who chose Tufts instead), but the types of players who they are bringing in (New England D2 guys and D1 walk-ons) all seem like they were sort of at the margin of Division 3 to begin with, so it's certainly possible that most of them were on Babson's radar when they were still in high school.  And of course Babson has a lot less flexibility in terms of academics than most of the schools who are focused on a transfer-heavy recruiting model. 

P'bearfan, it seem very rare that a NESCAC school brings in a scholarship-level transfer for hoops, and when they do, it generally will be in accordance with the model ronk is talking about.  Tufts has had I think 3-4 transfers for men's hoops over the years, including two over the last 3-4 years, all solid players, but none of them made a massive impact.  I can think of three Amherst guys and three Williams guys who have transferred in, plus a small smattering of other players around NESCAC, but it's rare for there to be an impact transfer into NESCAC.  All three Williams transfers were definitely recruited by Williams when in high school, and none of them were stars post-transfer.  The only three impact NESCAC transfers that I can recall are Jayde Dawson, Rob Stockwell, who was an all-NESCAC guy for Bates about a decade ago, and most notably Colin Tabb, who was an absolute stud for Trinity after transferring in roughly around 2000.  I'm sure that I'm forgetting a few others. 

I do note that Amherst takes a LOT of transfer athletes in general, but they tend to be dispersed among all sports.  Amherst seems to average around one transfer per year for football, and often those guys make a major impact, and has also had high profile transfers in both men's and women's basketball, men's ice hockey (a bunch there), and men's soccer, among others.  I'd guess that many if not most of those transfers were on Amherst's radar when they were in high school.  Other than Amherst, I can't think of any NESCAC school that relies heavily on recruiting transfers for athletics in the aggregate.

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)


Even in the case of Whitewater and Albertus, most of those transfers are guys previously recruited who come back looking for a better situation.  At the very least, they're guys who have relationships with the coaching staff.  I suspect that's the case in a majority of situations.

The other transfer scenario is when a coach needs a specific role filled and doesn't have guys in the pipeline to fill it.  A talented team is missing an inside presence, the coach goes looking for a JUCO player or a transfer who's got size and experience - that kind of thing.

I think it's much rarer for a player to just show up out of nowhere.  Aaron Walton-Moss ended up at Cabrini because one of his friends happened to invite him to a pickup game on campus and the coaches saw him - but he wasn't a transfer, just a guy who hadn't gone to college after high school.  The Neumann guys were similar, but I think that's very rare.

The transfers on last year's Babson team all had connections to the school in one way or another.  I suspect this year's batch is the same.  I think Babson's business school's rep is pretty key, too - it's certainly an easier sell than some place like Albertus.
Lead Columnist for D3hoops.com
@ryanalanscott just about anywhere

nescac1

Interesting, Hoops Fan, thanks..  I admittedly have no inside knowledge of Albertus, but that really surprises me.  I would not imagine that there is typically an overlap, when still in high school, between players who end up at JUCOs and guys who were hotly recruited by D3 schools.  I assumed that Albertus' coach was scouring JUCOS each year for very talented guys who were not snatched up by D1 schools.  Especially considering how late in the recruiting cycle many Albertus transfer recruits seem to be locked down. 

Given the long-time prominence of Whitewater's program, and the heavy regional focus of recruiting for WIAC schools, it does make a bit more sense that some of its star transfers would have been considering Whitewater when still in high school. 

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

Quote from: nescac1 on August 29, 2017, 10:14:58 AM
Interesting, Hoops Fan, thanks..  I admittedly have no inside knowledge of Albertus, but that really surprises me.  I would not imagine that there is typically an overlap, when still in high school, between players who end up at JUCOs and guys who were hotly recruited by D3 schools.  I assumed that Albertus' coach was scouring JUCOS each year for very talented guys who were not snatched up by D1 schools.  Especially considering how late in the recruiting cycle many Albertus transfer recruits seem to be locked down. 

Given the long-time prominence of Whitewater's program, and the heavy regional focus of recruiting for WIAC schools, it does make a bit more sense that some of its star transfers would have been considering Whitewater when still in high school.

It might not even be guys those coaches think they can land out of high school, but often coaches will put in the relational effort knowing that a guy going to a low d1 might be a good transfer candidate later on.  A number of the AMC transfers were never considering AMC out of high school, but many of them had relationships with the staff anyway.  I don't think he's doing a lot of cold calling is all I'm saying.
Lead Columnist for D3hoops.com
@ryanalanscott just about anywhere

nescac1

Ahh, I see, interesting info Ryan. 

P'bearfan

http://www.eurobasket.com/Spain/news/506439/Lucas-Hausman-signs-at-Marbella

Former Bowdoin player Lucas Hausman has signed a contract to play with CB Marabella in Spain this upcoming season.  Good luck to Lucas and all the former NESAC players who playing overseas!

Ubuntu

Not that it's all about the money but.... About does one make as a D3 stud going to Europe?

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

Quote from: Ubuntu on September 16, 2017, 07:39:07 AM
Not that it's all about the money but.... About does one make as a D3 stud going to Europe?

I wrote a piece about d3 players in Europe last year.  I don't think numbers were included, but generally, a d3 guy has to start at the bottom.  A first year salary might be room, board and 8-12k - that's if you're really a stud.

Money comes if you prove yourself the first year or two and get noticed by bigger clubs.  I suspect DiBartolomeo is doing ok for himself in Israel these days, but he had to work hard and struggle early.

Hausman signed in the Spanish 4th division.  The hope there is that a bigger club sees him and he performs well enough to move up the ranks.
Lead Columnist for D3hoops.com
@ryanalanscott just about anywhere

P'bearfan

Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 16, 2017, 08:48:54 AM
Quote from: Ubuntu on September 16, 2017, 07:39:07 AM
Not that it's all about the money but.... About does one make as a D3 stud going to Europe?

I wrote a piece about d3 players in Europe last year.  I don't think numbers were included, but generally, a d3 guy has to start at the bottom.  A first year salary might be room, board and 8-12k - that's if you're really a stud.

Money comes if you prove yourself the first year or two and get noticed by bigger clubs.  I suspect DiBartolomeo is doing ok for himself in Israel these days, but he had to work hard and struggle early.

Hausman signed in the Spanish 4th division.  The hope there is that a bigger club sees him and he performs well enough to move up the ranks.

Any links available to your article?  Sounds very interesting.

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

Quote from: P'bearfan on September 19, 2017, 06:54:17 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 16, 2017, 08:48:54 AM
Quote from: Ubuntu on September 16, 2017, 07:39:07 AM
Not that it's all about the money but.... About does one make as a D3 stud going to Europe?

I wrote a piece about d3 players in Europe last year.  I don't think numbers were included, but generally, a d3 guy has to start at the bottom.  A first year salary might be room, board and 8-12k - that's if you're really a stud.

Money comes if you prove yourself the first year or two and get noticed by bigger clubs.  I suspect DiBartolomeo is doing ok for himself in Israel these days, but he had to work hard and struggle early.

Hausman signed in the Spanish 4th division.  The hope there is that a bigger club sees him and he performs well enough to move up the ranks.

Any links available to your article?  Sounds very interesting.

There's an archive of all the Around the Nation columns - http://www.d3hoops.com/columns/around-the-nation/headlines-featured

Here's this particular one - http://www.d3hoops.com/columns/around-the-nation/2016-17/going-pro-from-division-3
Lead Columnist for D3hoops.com
@ryanalanscott just about anywhere

middhoops

It's been a long wait since March.
Today I enjoyed watching the Midd players scrimmage.  Not giving away too many secrets, but one returning key player has improved notably.  One bench player also has taken a huge step forward.  And a fy player shocked me with his ability to score against anyone, in a number of ways.
Other than that, it was just basically my best day in 6 months.
Not sure why most people enjoy summer so much.  It may be because they have interests other than small college basketball.
Go figure.

P'bearfan

Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 19, 2017, 07:01:24 AM
Quote from: P'bearfan on September 19, 2017, 06:54:17 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 16, 2017, 08:48:54 AM
Quote from: Ubuntu on September 16, 2017, 07:39:07 AM
Not that it's all about the money but.... About does one make as a D3 stud going to Europe?

I wrote a piece about d3 players in Europe last year.  I don't think numbers were included, but generally, a d3 guy has to start at the bottom.  A first year salary might be room, board and 8-12k - that's if you're really a stud.

Money comes if you prove yourself the first year or two and get noticed by bigger clubs.  I suspect DiBartolomeo is doing ok for himself in Israel these days, but he had to work hard and struggle early.

Hausman signed in the Spanish 4th division.  The hope there is that a bigger club sees him and he performs well enough to move up the ranks.

Any links available to your article?  Sounds very interesting.

There's an archive of all the Around the Nation columns - http://www.d3hoops.com/columns/around-the-nation/headlines-featured

Here's this particular one - http://www.d3hoops.com/columns/around-the-nation/2016-17/going-pro-from-division-3

Nice article!  Thanks for sharing.