2017 Playoffs

Started by Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat, October 31, 2017, 01:17:58 PM

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Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat

Starting the 2017 Playoff thread as it is getting close to time...

emma17

Question on home field (I understand true seeding isn't announced):

If the assumed #2 overall seed lost in the first three rounds, does the team that beat them hold home-field for future games- or does it depend on what that team was seeded?

Or is it determined week by week, which as I recall we have to wait for the NCAA to announce the locations of the following week's games?

merlecanlas

pretty sure that it is week-to-week.  I don't believe that if "seed" #8 beats #1, that #8 assumes the "seed" of #1. 

wally_wabash

The NCAA will announce host site locations each week, but we pretty much know who would host given almost any matchup.  Sometimes we don't know for sure who would host semifinal games if the top seeds all hold, but those are probably about the only scenarios where we have to wait and see. 

Definitely though- home field advantage privileges are not transferable.  If Lakeland beats Oshkosh, Lakeland's still gonna be on the road in round 2. 
"Nothing in the world is more expensive than free."- The Deacon of HBO's The Wire

MonroviaCat

Quote from: wally_wabash on October 31, 2017, 02:27:22 PM
The NCAA will announce host site locations each week, but we pretty much know who would host given almost any matchup.  Sometimes we don't know for sure who would host semifinal games if the top seeds all hold, but those are probably about the only scenarios where we have to wait and see. 

Definitely though- home field advantage privileges are not transferable.  If Lakeland beats Oshkosh, Lakeland's still gonna be on the road in round 2.
and of course, the schools have to apply to host and have an acceptable facility to be allowed to host...
Go Cats!

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

There are other factors, as has been alluded to, that can affect hosting of games... so the committee always waits to officially announce them the Sunday prior. There have been crazy reasons for some schools not to host across the sports of Division III. Usually, as has been noted, we can figure it out based on who is left... but in no way shape or form does an upset team carry on the home-field of the team they beat. That doesn't happen in any sport that I know.

Basically, who ever is the highest regionally ranked team will be the host. Remember, we see the final rankings now. It only gets crazy when crossing regional lines and the rankings are the same or close (i.e. 1 and 2, 2 and 3). Then just look at the data used for rankings and usually we can come up with the host rather easily.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

jamtod

Quote from: MonroviaCat on October 31, 2017, 02:42:36 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on October 31, 2017, 02:27:22 PM
The NCAA will announce host site locations each week, but we pretty much know who would host given almost any matchup.  Sometimes we don't know for sure who would host semifinal games if the top seeds all hold, but those are probably about the only scenarios where we have to wait and see. 

Definitely though- home field advantage privileges are not transferable.  If Lakeland beats Oshkosh, Lakeland's still gonna be on the road in round 2.
and of course, the schools have to apply to host and have an acceptable facility to be allowed to host...

Do a significant number of schools submit the application to host or could we run into a situation in round 2 where two teams won that are unable to host? I imagine you can schedule to avoid that in round 1, but beyond that?

jknezek

Quote from: jamtoTommie on October 31, 2017, 03:39:28 PM
Quote from: MonroviaCat on October 31, 2017, 02:42:36 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on October 31, 2017, 02:27:22 PM
The NCAA will announce host site locations each week, but we pretty much know who would host given almost any matchup.  Sometimes we don't know for sure who would host semifinal games if the top seeds all hold, but those are probably about the only scenarios where we have to wait and see. 

Definitely though- home field advantage privileges are not transferable.  If Lakeland beats Oshkosh, Lakeland's still gonna be on the road in round 2.
and of course, the schools have to apply to host and have an acceptable facility to be allowed to host...

Do a significant number of schools submit the application to host or could we run into a situation in round 2 where two teams won that are unable to host? I imagine you can schedule to avoid that in round 1, but beyond that?

It's not typical that schools either do not file or are not acceptable to host in football. I think MIT hit that snag a few years ago and I'm sure there are a few more scattered around, but it's much more prevalent in sports with bigger tournament fields.

MonroviaCat

Quote from: jknezek on October 31, 2017, 03:41:38 PM
Quote from: jamtoTommie on October 31, 2017, 03:39:28 PM
Quote from: MonroviaCat on October 31, 2017, 02:42:36 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on October 31, 2017, 02:27:22 PM
The NCAA will announce host site locations each week, but we pretty much know who would host given almost any matchup.  Sometimes we don't know for sure who would host semifinal games if the top seeds all hold, but those are probably about the only scenarios where we have to wait and see. 

Definitely though- home field advantage privileges are not transferable.  If Lakeland beats Oshkosh, Lakeland's still gonna be on the road in round 2.
and of course, the schools have to apply to host and have an acceptable facility to be allowed to host...

Do a significant number of schools submit the application to host or could we run into a situation in round 2 where two teams won that are unable to host? I imagine you can schedule to avoid that in round 1, but beyond that?

It's not typical that schools either do not file or are not acceptable to host in football. I think MIT hit that snag a few years ago and I'm sure there are a few more scattered around, but it's much more prevalent in sports with bigger tournament fields.
I was thinking of several years ago when CLU beat Linfield in the first week of the season and should have hosted the rematch in the first round of the playoffs but their field (they were still constructing their current stadium) did not meet the requirement so  CLU had to go to Linfield where their season ended.
Go Cats!

Pat Coleman

Yes, it definitely happens in football where a school is unable to host, but it's rare.

Some years ago, as another example, Hobart declined to host a second-round game because it couldn't staff the game on the holiday weekend.

Further back, Western Connecticut brain farted and failed to file to host beyond the second weekend. As the top seed. Fate intervened, of course, and since Western Connecticut should never have been the top seed in the first place, it lost to Montclair State in the second round. After getting a first-round bye.
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gordonmann

Brockport "hosted" John Carroll at Rochester years ago and Franklin more recently hosted Wheaton at a local high school, both because of bad field conditions.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

As Pat points out, it has happened. Usually, when those things occur many notice and make note of it themselves. For a lot of schools that I know, they will submit paperwork whether they have a chance of hosting or not; whether they have a chance of making the playoffs or not. They just do it to make sure they have got it done on for the outside chance it happens.

The most common one I see is when a facility is spoken for (rental usually) because a program/department is not used to that kind of success. The balance between bringing money in for a rental versus keeping it reserved for the off-chance of hosting is pretty tricky for some.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

wally_wabash

Top Seed Talk! 

I think we're all in agreement that UMHB, UWO, and UMU are going to be the top three seeds, with a 98% certainty that it will be in that order.  Now that we have regional rankings, we can really start to zero in on who is in play for that last top seed.  The contenders:

1E Delaware Valley - 8-0, 0.539 SOS, 1-0 vs RROs (24-19 W vs. 4E Wesley)
   Prognosis: Pretty good.  As the top ranked team from one of the regions, they seem the obvious choice.  Probably the favorite for that last spot right now. 

2E Brockport - 8-0, 0.532 SOS, 0-0 vs RROs
   Prognosis: Poor.  Brockport would have to surge ahead of Del Val in the East's rankings.  In order to do that, they'd probably need an RRO win.  The most likely candidate would be Alfred, but Brockport still has to beat Alfred to get to 10-0 and a third loss would certainly hold Alfred out of the rankings.  Tough year for the E8, and I think it's gonna cost Brockport a shot at a top seed. 

2N Wittenberg - 8-0, 0.546 SOS, 2-0 vs RROs (52-6 W @ 5N Depauw, 20-14 W @ 10S Westminster)
   Prognosis: You know what, maybe.  That Westminster chip is very nice for Wittenberg as long as Westminster keeps on winning.  Notching that extra RRO win in the out of conference game is a huge deal (often dumb luck).  Also consider a scenario where Wabash beats DePauw and both Wabash and DePauw wind up in the bottom of the North's rankings (possible).  That would make Witt 3-0 vs RROs and that might just be sexier than Del Val. 

2S Hardin-Simmons - 6-1, 0.559 SOS, 0-1 vs RROs (7-17 L vs. 1S UMHB)
   Prognosis: Not great.  While the result vs. UMHB isn't disqualifying (like something on the order of 50-7 would be), I'm just not sure there's enough meat on the bones here to warrant a #1 seed for the Cowboys.  I think you really need to have an RRO win in there, especially if you're carrying a loss.  The SOS is also at a highwater mark, so that's not going to be quite a nice at selection time.  And, you hate to bring it up but I don't really see a scenario where the NCAA is going to allow UMHB and HSU to stay away from each other for multiple rounds and guarantee extra flights for as long as those two stay in the tournament.  Best case scenario for H-SU realistically is that they get a home game in Round 1 against whoever, and then a rematch with UMHB in the second round. 

t2W Linfield - 6-1, 0.601 SOS, 1-1 vs RROs (3-24 L vs. 1S UMHB, 12-6 W vs. 10W George Fox)
   Prognosis: Stay tuned.  I think Linfield's penchant to just scrape by will ultimately keep them out of a top seed but I'm not going to bury them just yet.  Linfield also holds a win over SCIAC champion Chapman.  Chapman, I presume, is lurking just outside of the West top 10.  If they creep in and George Fox wins out and stays ranked (probably), then you've got Linfield with a 2-1 vs. RROs which is quite nice.  Linfield's schedule strength will come down some, but not immensely over the last two weeks.  Outside shot here for Linfield, but they have to have Chapman and George Fox be ranked.  And it would help if they scored some points against Puget Sound and Pacific.   

t2W Wartburg - 8-0, 0.599 SOS, 1-0 vs. RROs (36-13 W vs. 7W Monmouth)
   Prognosis: With a touch of help, pretty good.  Ties...pfft.  Obviously step one is that they can't be tied with Linfield.  The West RAC has to make a choice.  I think Linfield stays ahead as long as their ranked opponents stay ranked.  If GFU falls out and Chapman doesn't get in, then Wartburg is in position for the West #2 spot.  Wartburg's SOS is going to take a hit in weeks 10 and 11...it'll be interesting to see where that SOS ends up relative to Delaware Valley.  Also keep an eye on Wesley...if Wesley loses one of their last two games, that takes some shine off of Del Val's signature win and really opens up that last top seed to a team like Wartburg. 

Overall I think the pecking order for that last top seed looks like this at the moment:
Del Val
Wartburg
Wittenberg
Linfield
Hardin-Simmons
Brockport
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HScoach

Excellent summary.   

Though after reading that thru, the 4th #1 seed looks horribly weak.  No idea whatever the brackets end up, but I can't put a lock of faith in any of those potential teams actually winning a region.   Wartbug most likely.  Linfield on name recognition only, but not this year. 
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Statistics are like bikinis; what they reveal is interesting, what they hide is essential.

Ralph Turner

As jknezek and I have been posting over on the various South Region boards, geographic proximity has the South-West bracket:

Chapman
at UMHB

HSU (Pool C)
at Linfield  (Pool A)

Geographic proximity overrides all other considerations.  Linfield can be 2W or 3W or even 4W. We have only 2 or 3 flights among the travel orphans.