University Athletic Association

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Gregory Sager

#3480
Quote from: jknezek on June 12, 2015, 01:39:15 PM
That's interesting. The SAA affiliation was unwieldy. Chicago will need to find someone to play. Being a D3 independent is a cast iron witch after the first two or three weeks of the season.

Yep. And that's why the U of C's press release made mention of the fact that the school is actively seeking out a new affiliation. I'm sure that the school's athletic department is well aware of what a major headache scheduling would become if the Maroons had to join the list of D3 indies -- a list which now, I believe, can be toted up on the fingers of one hand.

Quote from: jknezek on June 12, 2015, 01:39:15 PMShame about losing the UAA rivalries.

Yeah, but they're keeping the one UAA rivalry -- the Founders Cup game between Chicago and Wash U -- that really matters to both schools. Those two schools are already archrivals in every sport (inasmuch, I suppose, as the University of Chicago pays enough attention to sports to actually consider anyone an archrival in a field of endeavor that doesn't include a Nobel Prize for the winner ;)).

The CMU and CWRU people will correct me if I'm wrong, but Carnegie Mellon and Case Western Reserve appear to be an archrival pair as well ... and that's not gonna change with the de facto dissolution of UAA football, since they're both still PAC members.

Quote from: ADL70 on June 12, 2015, 03:02:15 PM
Chicago could affiliate with the seven-team NAAC.

You mean the NACC, right? I suppose the NACC could do in a pinch. The MIAA, with whom the NACC pairs up for odd-team-out games in October and November, is a possibility as well. Either way, whichever one of those leagues the Maroons joined, the other league would be mighty ticked off about it, since it would ruin their odd-team-out schedule.

The U of C could also seek to affiliate with the HCAC, which is likewise an odd-numbered league, the difference between the HCAC and those other two leagues being that, unlike the NACC and MIAA, the HCAC doesn't have an odd-team-out matchup agreement with another odd-numbered league.

Quote from: wally_wabash on June 12, 2015, 02:37:58 PMAs for WashU in the CCIW- super interesting.  Equally interesting is how quickly the CCIW has outfitted itself with 10 teams.  I presume they'll go full round robin here and play just one out of conference per season- a growing trend.  September scheduling is a nightmare and a 9-game league schedule eliminates most of the headache.  It comes at the expense of your SOS, but that's a price many are happy to pay.

Exactly. I can't fathom the CCIW ever abandoning the full round-robin.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

jaybird44

While yesterday was a good-news day for Wash-U football and the CCIW, there is a bit of sadness that the UAA is washing away in football; slowly out to sea by the ebb and flow of the desire to play for AQs and the undertow of the inability of the conference to have enough football schools to be eligible for post-season Pool A bids.

That has always been the Achilles heel of an otherwise tremendous conference for other sports--the lack of teams offering football at the outset of the creation of the UAA.  Johns Hopkins, to my knowledge, never competed in UAA football in its short time in the conference, and Rochester's departure some time ago left the remaining four football-playing teams in a tough situation.  Maintain the status quo, or (to borrow a Star Trek reference) boldly go and seek new football civilizations that would afford competition for an AQ.

Hence, the four teams' move to the PAC and SAA, and Wash-U's eventual landing in the CCIW in 2018.  I am glad that Wash-U and Chicago will maintain their yearly Founder's Cup battles, and I hope Chicago can find a long-term conference affiliation for its football program.

Gregory Sager

According to the front page of d3football.com, it sounds as though Chicago is probably going to move to the MWC, where it will fill the hole in the North Division that will be caused by Carroll's defection to the CCIW after this coming school year. That's probably the best fit available for the Maroons.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

formerd3db

Good comments/observations all.  I agree that it is great to see that WashU and U of Chicago will continue their traditional rivalry.  But I also agree with Gregory that perhaps the better fit for Chicago is the MWF league as far as travel distances and some very old[er] rivalries from many years ago.  If I recall correctly, wasn't Chicago in the Midwest League for a while back in the mid-1980s?

And finally, I also agree that it is sad to see the UAA breakup- the original formation in the first place of "like major research universities" which had storied football histories was a worthy.  However, the new era is such that travel costs are almost prohibitive (similar to Colorado College when it had its program), so this move makes sense for both Chicago and WashU.   
"When the Great Scorer comes To mark against your name, He'll write not 'won' or 'lost', But how you played the game." - Grantland Rice

DBQ1965

I know it was a different era, but how many D3 teams can boast a Heisman Trophy winner among its players?
Reality is for those who lack imagination 😀

formerd3db

Quote from: DBQ1965 on June 13, 2015, 07:38:40 PM
I know it was a different era, but how many D3 teams can boast a Heisman Trophy winner among its players?

So true DBQ1965.  I had the great privilege of meeting Berwanger years ago after having been invited by him for a visit.  We met at his then office and he kindlpy spent some 4 1/2 hours visiting with me.  We talked about many things, although obviously no surprise that the big topic was football.  He shared with me about his time at U of C and Stagg when Berwanger was a freshman and the Old Stagg Field Stadium and Big Ten football back then. (Some of you may not know that U of C of the Big Ten (Western Conference) played MIAA Hillsdale College in 1930 and it was a low scoring game). 

Anyway, he gave me signed photos (his famous pose of course) and a book on the Heisman.  I remember when walking up the front walk and I was holding a new book on the Heisman winners that my wife had given me for my birthday-I was bringing it to have him sign it. He saw the book and sad..."oh, I see you already have that one" and he proceeded to give me a different book on the Heisman winners that had also been published at the time and signed both for me.  His autographed photo remains in my sports library den.  He gave everyone who visited him one of the Heisman books.  Berwanger was very kind and generous man and I was sad when he passed away in the early 2000s. 

I do love U of C's football history room and seeing the original Heisman Trophy.  WashU was big time football also until the 1930's.
"When the Great Scorer comes To mark against your name, He'll write not 'won' or 'lost', But how you played the game." - Grantland Rice

DBQ1965

Quote from: formerd3db on June 13, 2015, 08:29:30 PM
Quote from: DBQ1965 on June 13, 2015, 07:38:40 PM
I know it was a different era, but how many D3 teams can boast a Heisman Trophy winner among its players?

So true DBQ1965.  I had the great privilege of meeting Berwanger years ago after having been invited by him for a visit.  We met at his then office and he kindlpy spent some 4 1/2 hours visiting with me.  We talked about many things, although obviously no surprise that the big topic was football.  He shared with me about his time at U of C and Stagg when Berwanger was a freshman and the Old Stagg Field Stadium and Big Ten football back then. (Some of you may not know that U of C of the Big Ten (Western Conference) played MIAA Hillsdale College in 1930 and it was a low scoring game). 

Anyway, he gave me signed photos (his famous pose of course) and a book on the Heisman.  I remember when walking up the front walk and I was holding a new book on the Heisman winners that my wife had given me for my birthday-I was bringing it to have him sign it. He saw the book and sad..."oh, I see you already have that one" and he proceeded to give me a different book on the Heisman winners that had also been published at the time and signed both for me.  His autographed photo remains in my sports library den.  He gave everyone who visited him one of the Heisman books.  Berwanger was very kind and generous man and I was sad when he passed away in the early 2000s. 

I do love U of C's football history room and seeing the original Heisman Trophy.  WashU was big time football also until the 1930's.

My claim to fame with U of C  came with running the 880 (I am that old) and the 800 indoors on the 220 dirt track oval in the old fieldhouse (allegedly built above the Fermi cyclotron on campus).  Two times I ran for Wheaton College and once representing McCormick Theological Seminary.  While unofficial, I did run a PR at 1:59.1 in 1961. Now I still run at 5k distances in the 70-74 age group.
Reality is for those who lack imagination 😀

ADL70

#3487
Further UAA connection to the Heisman--an NYU player was the sculptor`s model.

Interesting that Carroll also uses the "wishbone C" logo as well.

Yes Greg, CWRU and CMU play a trophy game which is included in PAC`s week 11 rivalry games.

And d3db the UAA will continue in the other sports.
SPARTANS...PREPARE FOR GLORY
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Think beyond the possible.
Compete, Win, Respect, Unite

Gregory Sager

Quote from: formerd3db on June 13, 2015, 06:01:00 PM
Good comments/observations all.  I agree that it is great to see that WashU and U of Chicago will continue their traditional rivalry.  But I also agree with Gregory that perhaps the better fit for Chicago is the MWF league as far as travel distances and some very old[er] rivalries from many years ago.  If I recall correctly, wasn't Chicago in the Midwest League for a while back in the mid-1980s?

The University of Chicago was a MWC member from 1976 until the founding of the UAA in 1987.

Quote from: formerd3db on June 13, 2015, 06:01:00 PMAnd finally, I also agree that it is sad to see the UAA breakup- the original formation in the first place of "like major research universities" which had storied football histories was a worthy.  However, the new era is such that travel costs are almost prohibitive (similar to Colorado College when it had its program), so this move makes sense for both Chicago and WashU.   

As ADL70 said, the UAA isn't breaking up. It simply lost two of its football teams. (The league indicates that it wishes to continue sponsoring football, but that point now appears to be moot.) Chicago and Wash U will continue to participate in the UAA in all of their other sports. As for travel costs, yeah, they're steep and getting steeper. But "almost prohibitive" is not really a term that fits either school; Wash U's endowment is $5.6 billion, and Chicago's is $7.5 billion. Needless to say, they can afford those UAA plane rides and hotel rooms.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

hickory_cornhusker

Quote from: Gregory Sager on June 13, 2015, 03:35:14 PM
According to the front page of d3football.com, it sounds as though Chicago is probably going to move to the MWC, where it will fill the hole in the North Division that will be caused by Carroll's defection to the CCIW after this coming school year. That's probably the best fit available for the Maroons.

Lake Forest may want that North Division spot. I don't know how Macalester alters the numbers but I know without them the travel distances are better for Lake Forest in the North than the South. Also, geographically, Lake Forest is north of Chicago.

Gregory Sager

That's a good point. But Lake Forest may have an ongoing investment in the rivalries it has with the other South Division teams. Or, it may not. We'll see.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

formerd3db

#3491
Quote from: Gregory Sager on June 14, 2015, 09:39:28 AM
Quote from: formerd3db on June 13, 2015, 06:01:00 PM
Good comments/observations all.  I agree that it is great to see that WashU and U of Chicago will continue their traditional rivalry.  But I also agree with Gregory that perhaps the better fit for Chicago is the MWF league as far as travel distances and some very old[er] rivalries from many years ago.  If I recall correctly, wasn't Chicago in the Midwest League for a while back in the mid-1980s?

The University of Chicago was a MWC member from 1976 until the founding of the UAA in 1987.

Quote from: formerd3db on June 13, 2015, 06:01:00 PMAnd finally, I also agree that it is sad to see the UAA breakup- the original formation in the first place of "like major research universities" which had storied football histories was a worthy.  However, the new era is such that travel costs are almost prohibitive (similar to Colorado College when it had its program), so this move makes sense for both Chicago and WashU.   

As ADL70 said, the UAA isn't breaking up. It simply lost two of its football teams. (The league indicates that it wishes to continue sponsoring football, but that point now appears to be moot.) Chicago and Wash U will continue to participate in the UAA in all of their other sports. As for travel costs, yeah, they're steep and getting steeper. But "almost prohibitive" is not really a term that fits either school; Wash U's endowment is $5.6 billion, and Chicago's is $7.5 billion. Needless to say, they can afford those UAA plane rides and hotel rooms.

I didn't say the UAA was going defunct, simply that it is breaking up with regard to its football sponsoring schools, which it is, in losing two of its four football teams (the topic that most every one was discussing, I believe, was with regard to the football schools of the UAA).  Regardless, it will be interesting to see if they can rebuild by adding football teams as you mentioned as stated in their announcement.

Also, you certainly are right they can afford the costs for extended travel.  However, I do not doubt that has been at least in the discussion, even if for just being included in the overall general discussion and potential aspects to be considered.  At the same time, it certainly doesn't hurt either in saving some $ by going into conferences that will require less travel (when U of C decides which league it would like to join/affiliate with).   
"When the Great Scorer comes To mark against your name, He'll write not 'won' or 'lost', But how you played the game." - Grantland Rice

hickory_cornhusker

Quote from: Gregory Sager on June 14, 2015, 02:48:46 PM
That's a good point. But Lake Forest may have an ongoing investment in the rivalries it has with the other South Division teams. Or, it may not. We'll see.

Possible. Back in the 1990s when Cornell and Coe were both still in the conference, Lake Forest was part of the North so they do have a history with those teams as well. My guess is if Chicago were to affiliate with the MWC, Lake Forest would be allowed to play in the division they want and Chicago would take the other.

martin

I think you may see something like Cornell and Grinnell going to the North, Beloit to the South and Chicago added to the South.
Crescat scientia; vita excolatur.
Even a blind man knows when the sun is shining.

martin

Quote from: ADL70 on June 14, 2015, 08:59:01 AM
Further UAA connection to the Heisman--an NYU player was the sculptor`s model.

Interesting that Carroll also uses the "wishbone C" logo as well.

Yes Greg, CWRU and CMU play a trophy game which is included in PAC`s week 11 rivalry games.

And d3db the UAA will continue in the other sports.

Carroll does not use the wishbone C - they use a block C.
http://carrollathletics.com/index.aspx?path=football&

Central College uses the wishbone C. But Chicago originated the logo.
http://espn.go.com/blog/playbook/fandom/post/_/id/12724/the-uni-watch-history-of-the-wishbone-c
Crescat scientia; vita excolatur.
Even a blind man knows when the sun is shining.