WBB: Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference

Started by BedtimeForBonzo, March 12, 2005, 12:24:50 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Quote from: scottiedoug on March 20, 2017, 10:55:38 AM
Sorry I missed that.  My point remains, however.

What in the world is your point?
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

Pat Coleman

Quote from: scottiedoug on March 20, 2017, 10:55:38 AM
Sorry I missed that.  My point remains, however.

It remains inaccurate, sure.

Scottie -- I know you love your Maryville and USA South, but that conference is really far down the pecking order and is not a national contender right now. Going to have to get better to earn the at-large bids and postseason honors you want.
Publisher. Questions? Check our FAQ for D3f, D3h.
Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

scottiedoug

I know that the USA South is what it is and is not. It is very hard for D3 programs to compete with all the scholarship choices players have in the southeast.  Lots of D2 programs lurking around with money to give out!

Does that mean that there are nearly no players in D3 in the South who are All Americans?  Could be, and Pat and Dave, who see national competition, are in a better position than I am to know....

I still think Maryville's women were worthy of a bid....

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Quote from: scottiedoug on March 21, 2017, 10:21:55 AM
I know that the USA South is what it is and is not. It is very hard for D3 programs to compete with all the scholarship choices players have in the southeast.  Lots of D2 programs lurking around with money to give out!

Does that mean that there are nearly no players in D3 in the South who are All Americans?  Could be, and Pat and Dave, who see national competition, are in a better position than I am to know....

I still think Maryville's women were worthy of a bid....

FYI - there are D2s around a lot of D3 programs in this country and I can't tell you how many teams either have players who had D2 choices and choose D3... OR transferred out of D2 to a D3 school. Heck, the two teams playing for a national championship in men's basketball this year had D2 transfers and players who decided D3 was a better choice. So the south's "challenge" of having D2s is not unique. As a result, there has to be better reasons for the struggles, because I hear the same comments from the northwest, New Jersey, the northeast, the midwest, etc... but we still see teams get talent and we still see teams compete.

As for the Maryville comment... bid to the tournament or bid for All-America? Bid to the tournament is worth a conversation. However, they were there at the end without the criteria to get in (accordingly to the committee). They need to improve the out of conference schedule a hair, most likely, and not take unnecessary losses in conference to be in a better position (per this year's criteria info).

If it is about All-American opportunities on either set of teams... not sure what I can tell you. That was a very difficult list this year. There were a LOT of players left off who deserved to be there. Heck, both men and women's teams had second-teamers who had arguments to be first-teamers, but there wasn't enough room.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

Ron Boerger

Selecting 25 A-A players from 400 teams ain't easy. 

scottiedoug

My comment was about the tournament bid.  We know the role of scheduling and not losing games!  Maryville scheduled and beat some teams that in previous years had had good records and would have helped the SOS if they had performed as "expected."  Still, you need to win (although the only loss to an average team record-wise was a tournament loss to Wittenburg and the conference losses were to Piedmont and Ferrum, the other best teams in the USASouth. And they scheduled Thomas More on purpose.

Dave, any ideas about the current decline in the southeast...even the supposedly mighty ODAC was not its usual self.  I know it has for a long time been the case that the South generally has not competed in D3 at the top level. Too much pork in the diet?


Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

scottiedoug - I don't agree with the decline comment. The ODAC women are actually far more competitive now then they have been. That has usually been a one-bid league and this year got two in... easily. I think there is more competition.

On the men's side, things are down for sure, but I think it will be temporary. These things go in waves. Look at the WIAC... down for a year or two and should come roaring back next year in men's basketball.

I wouldn't put much stock in things being "down." That said, it isn't like the South has every been like the Northeast or Central. But look to the Mid-Atlantic to see how things that have been down for years is now surged back into the national conversation.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

scottiedoug

So is it possible to determine why these swings happen?  It also is the case in D1, of course. New coaches? I am not a big fan of the idea that things "just happen," but have no other explanations.

I appreciate your role in D3Hoops.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Oh I think recruiting goes in waves. I think when some teams have had a number of players in previous years, future recruits may not be interested because they don't see opportunities to play while another team with less recruits have more opportunities (not true across the board, but I have seen waves at schools like that).

New coaches affects a lot. Where their high schools "point" their students has an affect (and that changes often). Influences on high school students as well including their families, where they want to go, etc.

I think the biggest thing as well is that there is more talent out there and thus there are more options especially in Division III women's basketball. I will never forget Nancy Fahey saying to me after I asked her why it seemed harded to win national titles for the Bears now versus then - "there are a lot more talented girls playing basketball now." In other words, more talent at more schools. As a result, there are more options and recruits are constantly looking around. Also I think there is far more awareness of Division III schools outside of the immediate "area" for many. There are numerous reasons for that, but the key being players may be more aware of schools further away and thus schools don't have the same area to pull players from because they are looking elsewhere.

If the South remains "down" for a few more seasons, than I think more is going on. If they return, then the wave idea is more prevalent.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

Ron Boerger

New story on Trinity rising senior Micah Weaver:   https://new.trinity.edu/news/driving-court

Also answers the (unlikely) question as to Monica Holguin returning (she has a year of eligibility remaining):  "Despite losing five seniors, Hill has recruited six rising first-years, all "really good" in Weaver's estimation."   There were exactly five seniors on this year's roster.

Pat Coleman

I'm not sure I'd take that as the final word. It's a throwaway line by someone who might not know the details.
Publisher. Questions? Check our FAQ for D3f, D3h.
Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

Ron Boerger

Well, I'd be thrilled to be wrong ...

In other Monica Holguin news, her jersey is going to be on display at the Women's Basketball Hall of Fame's "Ring of Honor":

https://twitter.com/joe_shot/status/860185246158999553
 

jekelish

Well with the new season getting closer and closer to kicking off now that practice has been underway for nearly a week...

I'm going to make my bold prediction: this will be the year Austin College breaks into the Top 25. They return almost everyone, and brought in a very, very strong recruiting class. Plus: Bryce Frank worked extremely hard in the offseason, particularly on her shooting, so her midrange game should be better, as should her free throw shooting. I wouldn't be surprised to see an 18 and 12 season from her this year.

Looking forward to the season getting underway!

Ron Boerger

#1678
Trinity almost knocked off another D1 team to start the season, falling 62-57 at UT-Rio Grande Valley this weekend.  Micah Weaver had 23 for Trinity; Abby Holland had 12 and Mollie Hughes 11.  Trinity led most of the way before falling late; RGV took the lead for good with 1:01 remaining.  The Tigers outshot their D1 opponent 44-36%, posted an 18-10 assist advantage, and turned the ball over 21 times to the host's 26 (with a 16-10 advantage in steals).   The Islanders Vaqueros won the rebound battle by a sizable margin, 39-24.    A 27-7 disparity at the free throw line in favor of the locals didn't help, either.

Edit: not at RGV but in an event at TAMU-Corpus Christi.   

As seems to be typical the D1 team counts this result while the D3 school marks it as exhibition.   

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 13, 2017, 09:28:59 PM
As seems to be typical the D1 team counts this result while the D3 school marks it as exhibition.

Yes considering the D1 schedule has started and D3's has not. D1 doesn't have the same rules as D3 in terms of these games. Everything basically counts once the season starts in D1.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.