Pool B

Started by Ralph Turner, October 01, 2005, 02:12:36 PM

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wesleydad

joel, salisbury's win against uncw is as good as any that chicago has.  the lose to wabash is comparable to the lose to hampden sydney.  if chicago beats wash u then it will be interesting.  as i said i dont think salisbury gets in with 2 loses, but if they are the top team left then they should get in.  if all teams being considered have at least 2 loses then who they lost to has to be considered.  i guess that is why they have the owp and oowp as criteria for picking the teams.

K-Mack

Quote from: wesleydad on November 08, 2010, 06:50:46 PM
i dont think salisbury gets in, but to defend there not beating teams better then 6 - 4.  chicago hasnt played anyone on the level of wesley or hampden-sydney.  if they had then they likely would not even be in the pool b conversation.

I think Salisbury gets the spot.

If the primary criteria break down as wdelsean explains earlier, and it goes to secondary criteria, it's hard to ignore a three-point loss to a No. 1 seed and a four-point loss to a Pool C possible.

Results against all ranked (regionally ranked, not D3football.com ranked) teams in Division III is among the secondary criteria. And it says results, not wins.
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Ryan Tipps

Quote from: K-Mack on November 09, 2010, 10:47:21 PM
And it says results, not wins.

Thank you for saying that!

I highlight that point a lot when people email me with playoff questions. The criteria specifically don't say record against the opponents, they say results. That leads me to believe that close losses as well as blowout wins factor into the equation uniquely.
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K-Mack

Quote from: Ryan Tipps on November 09, 2010, 11:07:33 PM
Quote from: K-Mack on November 09, 2010, 10:47:21 PM
And it says results, not wins.

Thank you for saying that!

I highlight that point a lot when people email me with playoff questions. The criteria specifically don't say record against the opponents, they say results. That leads me to believe that close losses as well as blowout wins factor into the equation uniquely.

Yup. I think it's vague enough to provide an opening for subjectivity to creep in. The committee can consider those results any way it wants.

In the case of Salisbury, they'd be very much doing the right thing, IMHO. Three points vs. a top 5 team is significant. And then at least one other game that says it wasn't a fluke.
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joelmama

Doesn't a win against a ranked team beat out a loss to a ranked team though?

AUKaz00

Wesley, SUNY-Maritime and Salisbury are the only Pool B teams to make the final (released) Regional Rankings.  Hard to imagine an unranked team getting in the discussion.
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wesleydad

AUKaz00, makes sense to me.

dc_has_been

Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 10, 2010, 03:18:01 PM
Wesley, SUNY-Maritime and Salisbury are the only Pool B teams to make the final (released) Regional Rankings.  Hard to imagine an unranked team getting in the discussion.
I wouldn't use that rational because one region could be stronger than the other. 
In regards to Salisbury, their losses are losses the same as WashU's and Chicago's.  If it comes down to those three, which one will get eliminated next week for sure b/c they play eachother, I think you'll have to look at who they beat.  Right now I would give it to one of the UAA schools because I think they've beat better competition as it has been mentioned before.
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Mr. Ypsi

Quote from: dc_has_been on November 10, 2010, 06:24:47 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 10, 2010, 03:18:01 PM
Wesley, SUNY-Maritime and Salisbury are the only Pool B teams to make the final (released) Regional Rankings.  Hard to imagine an unranked team getting in the discussion.
I wouldn't use that rational because one region could be stronger than the other. 
In regards to Salisbury, their losses are losses the same as WashU's and Chicago's.  If it comes down to those three, which one will get eliminated next week for sure b/c they play eachother, I think you'll have to look at who they beat.  Right now I would give it to one of the UAA schools because I think they've beat better competition as it has been mentioned before.

Don't know for sure about football, but in basketball it is established that the committees actually rank MORE than ten (they only release the top ten).  So if whoever wins the WashU/UChi game is ranked at least in the top 12 of their region, Salisbury may not be a sure thing.

AUKaz00

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 10, 2010, 06:32:20 PM
Quote from: dc_has_been on November 10, 2010, 06:24:47 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 10, 2010, 03:18:01 PM
Wesley, SUNY-Maritime and Salisbury are the only Pool B teams to make the final (released) Regional Rankings.  Hard to imagine an unranked team getting in the discussion.
I wouldn't use that rational because one region could be stronger than the other. 
In regards to Salisbury, their losses are losses the same as WashU's and Chicago's.  If it comes down to those three, which one will get eliminated next week for sure b/c they play eachother, I think you'll have to look at who they beat.  Right now I would give it to one of the UAA schools because I think they've beat better competition as it has been mentioned before.

Don't know for sure about football, but in basketball it is established that the committees actually rank MORE than ten (they only release the top ten).  So if whoever wins the WashU/UChi game is ranked at least in the top 12 of their region, Salisbury may not be a sure thing.

WashU is also in the South, so they'd have to jump Salisbury in the final rankings and since neither WashU or Chicago is currently ranked, the winner won't get the benefit of a quality win from the result.  Just as the committee seems to be telegraphing what they're going to be doing with seeding by jumping Mount Union over NCC, I think they are telling us who is in the driver's seat for the 3 Pool B bids.
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joelmama

Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 10, 2010, 08:46:49 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 10, 2010, 06:32:20 PM
Quote from: dc_has_been on November 10, 2010, 06:24:47 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 10, 2010, 03:18:01 PM
Wesley, SUNY-Maritime and Salisbury are the only Pool B teams to make the final (released) Regional Rankings.  Hard to imagine an unranked team getting in the discussion.
I wouldn't use that rational because one region could be stronger than the other.  
In regards to Salisbury, their losses are losses the same as WashU's and Chicago's.  If it comes down to those three, which one will get eliminated next week for sure b/c they play eachother, I think you'll have to look at who they beat.  Right now I would give it to one of the UAA schools because I think they've beat better competition as it has been mentioned before.

Don't know for sure about football, but in basketball it is established that the committees actually rank MORE than ten (they only release the top ten).  So if whoever wins the WashU/UChi game is ranked at least in the top 12 of their region, Salisbury may not be a sure thing.

WashU is also in the South, so they'd have to jump Salisbury in the final rankings and since neither WashU or Chicago is currently ranked, the winner won't get the benefit of a quality win from the result.  Just as the committee seems to be telegraphing what they're going to be doing with seeding by jumping Mount Union over NCC, I think they are telling us who is in the driver's seat for the 3 Pool B bids.
I think you are correct but it still makes sense to me that a win over a ranked team is better than a close loss to a ranked team.  Maybe I am too used to the harbin computer pints system used in Ohio HS.

@d3jason

Wash U also lost to a 3-6 Rhodes team.

WashUDad

and Beat Wabash, Wooster and Case Western... but yes the loss to Rhodes is horrible

UofCAlum

Certainly the NCAA selection committee views injuries in the same way as they do for the D1 Basketball tournament right?  In that case, the committee must take into consideration that Chicago's two losses occurred when they played without their QB and Left Tackle.  Both got hurt early on against Elmhurst and neither played at all vs. Wabash.  In fact, Chicago's third string QB played most of the game against Wabash.  Since the players returned, Chicago is undefeated.
 
Another factor the committee would most likely take into consideration is that both of Salisbury's losses took place at home while both of Chicago's occurred on the road.
 
I'm not saying that either of these factors should be dispositive but I do think it's entirely reasonable that the committee considers them when trying to make a determination on who should be the third Pool B team.  Of course, if they just selected the actual three best Pool B teams...both Salisbury and the Chicago/Wash U winner would go and SUNY Maritime would be left out.

Pat Coleman

Quote from: UofCAlum on November 13, 2010, 01:05:26 PM
Certainly the NCAA selection committee views injuries in the same way as they do for the D1 Basketball tournament right? 

Not really. Every team has injuries, right? This is football, after all, not basketball.
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