Pool B

Started by Ralph Turner, October 01, 2005, 02:12:36 PM

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Foss

I thought that's what the playoff FAQ link was for?  :)
A packed student section behind an end zone cheering on guys they will actually see in class on Monday is almost as cool as The Streak.

Ralph Turner

Quote from: Foss on October 02, 2007, 01:05:06 AM
I thought that's what the playoff FAQ link was for?  :)
:D

+1  ;)

SU Backer

  Pat, sorry I posted. I wasn't trying to self profess anything......nor muddy any waters, just gave my opinion on how I thought things would shake out in the ACFC this year.

Ralph Turner

Quote from: SU Backer on October 02, 2007, 10:02:28 AM
  Pat, sorry I posted. I wasn't trying to self profess anything......nor muddy any waters, just gave my opinion on how I thought things would shake out in the ACFC this year.
Don't apologize!  We are glad to have new posters.

The job of educating ourselves on what gets into the playoffs is one of the biggest factors in the things that people post, and some of us really try to keep everyone focused on what is important relative to the playoffs.

+1,  :)

Pat Coleman

Quote from: SU Backer on October 02, 2007, 10:02:28 AM
  Pat, sorry I posted. I wasn't trying to self profess anything......nor muddy any waters, just gave my opinion on how I thought things would shake out in the ACFC this year.

Definitely don't apologize. I wasn't referring to you!
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Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

Foss

Pat, I can understand the "muddying the water" and I will no longer make mention of anything that does not apply to actual Pool B selection. But I think calling someone's Pool B analysis "self-professed" when that person is merely responding to a topic that someone else just asked for discussion on is a bit harsh.

Quote from: K-Mack on October 01, 2007, 01:37:12 AM
Hey, how about some who's in, who's struggling fan analysis?

Salisbury
PLU
Wesley
Wash U.
CMU
Linfield
Willamette?
A packed student section behind an end zone cheering on guys they will actually see in class on Monday is almost as cool as The Streak.

Pat Coleman

You may be overreacting. Since you didn't seem interested in accepting Ralph's notes, I reiterated them. Now it appears you understand. :)
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Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

Foss

I'm always interested in Ralph's notes - who isn't? Maybe you misinterpreted.  :)
A packed student section behind an end zone cheering on guys they will actually see in class on Monday is almost as cool as The Streak.

K-Mack

Now that everyone's settled down, you are all right. This happens all the time, we muddy the waters because we see the entire picture. Good things happen on this thread when people like Ralph and Pat post because they are trained to look at team resumes the way the committee would.

Everyone's comments are welcome ... this is where we fans (and columnists) help sort things out.

One note I should add for SU backer ... I don't think 2 losses is necessarily a death knell. It turned out to be last season, when some 9-1 teams got left at home, but the season before that, Cortland State, one of those teams that went 9-1 in 2006, got in at 8-2 in '05.

Also, I think Wilkes got in in Pool C with two losses, and I think under the 28-team bracket -- with four fewer spots available -- CNU did it once.

For Wesley and Salisbury specifically, a lot is going to depend on two things: 1) the quality of Pools B -- 3 bids -- and C -- 7 bids. 2) the results of the teams they played, or the OOWP or whatever (opponents' opponents winning percentage)

Pat or Ralph are better at clearly explaining the criteria, I usually don't get knee-deep into it until Week 8 or so. But I can say that the results of teams Wesley has played -- for instance if NC Wesleyan, DV/Widener and Montclair State all go on to win their conferences and the Wolverines lose to Salisbury and finish 8-2, they might end up with a Strength of Schedule (whatever we're calling that QoW index these days) that favors it vs. a 1-loss team who played a lot of weak teams.

Don't take that as gospel, just something to think about.

Ralph, you think the NWC champ could end up with a weaker resume than a runner-up who earns a bid? Sounds plausible, but give me a scenario.
Former author, Around the Nation ('01-'13)
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K-Mack

Generally speaking, it's a good thing if a team you played makes the playoffs or comes awfully close, since results against regionally-ranked opponents is a criterion. (correct latin usage or what there?)

Whitworth would be rooting for Redlands to stay ranked, as would Wesley for Montclair State. But perhaps even more important than a team you lost to doing well is a team you beat doing well ... so for Wesley, rooting for NCW or Widener may be more important, esp. since DV cancels out since Salisbury played them too.
Former author, Around the Nation ('01-'13)
Managing Editor, Kickoff
Voter, Top 25/Play of the Week/Gagliardi Trophy/Liberty Mutual Coach of the Year
Nastradamus, Triple Take
and one of the two voices behind the sonic #d3fb nerdery that is the ATN Podcast.

Ralph Turner

Quote from: K-Mack on October 03, 2007, 12:58:25 AM
...

Ralph, you think the NWC champ could end up with a weaker resume than a runner-up who earns a bid? Sounds plausible, but give me a scenario.
Thanks for the post.

Football by-laws

I went to the by-laws only to find that the by-laws do not have a AQ clause as the ASC does. (They may consider it next year.)

I had imagined Willamette defeating Linfield and PLU but losing to Whitworth.  PLU and Linfield beat Whitworth.

Willamette 5-1 (6-2 West Region)  W- Linfield, PLU, L&C, Menlo, UPS; L- Whitworth)
PLU            5-1 (8-1 West Region) W- Linfield, Whitworth, Menlo, UPS L&C; L - Willamette
Whitworth  4-2 (6-3 West Region) W-UPS, L&C, Menlo, Willamette; L- Linfield, PLU,
Linfield       4-2  (5-2 West Region) W- Whitworth, UPS, L&C, Menlo;  L- PLU, Willamette
UPS            2-4
Menlo         1-5
L&C            0-6   

Under this scenario, PLU has the better West Region record but lost to Willamette in the head-to-head.  The lack of the AQ designation in the by-laws leaves this one open, and the NCAA can go with the team with the better in-region record.   

Ralph Turner

Quote from: K-Mack on October 03, 2007, 01:06:23 AM
...

criterion. (correct latin usage or what there?)

...
Actually from the Greek verb, krinein, to judge or decide.  First found in English around 1631.   :)

K-Mack

Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 03, 2007, 01:26:05 AM
Quote from: K-Mack on October 03, 2007, 01:06:23 AM
...

criterion. (correct latin usage or what there?)

...
Actually from the Greek verb, krinein, to judge or decide.  First found in English around 1631.   :)

Thanks, Prof.
Former author, Around the Nation ('01-'13)
Managing Editor, Kickoff
Voter, Top 25/Play of the Week/Gagliardi Trophy/Liberty Mutual Coach of the Year
Nastradamus, Triple Take
and one of the two voices behind the sonic #d3fb nerdery that is the ATN Podcast.

Ron Boerger

Quote from: K-Mack on October 03, 2007, 12:58:25 AM[snip]

For Wesley and Salisbury specifically, a lot is going to depend on two things: 1) the quality of Pools B -- 3 bids -- and C -- 7 bids. 2) the results of the teams they played, or the OOWP or whatever (opponents' opponents winning percentage)

[snip]

Speaking of which, and I know after week 5 is early .... Pat, when should we expect to see how teams stack up under this new method?


Pat Coleman

Good question. I think we have the data in place to calculate this so perhaps after this week's games we'll do a dry run and see what it looks like.
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Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.