Rule and Policy Changes

Started by hopefan, June 24, 2015, 09:48:06 AM

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Ralph Turner

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on October 20, 2017, 01:35:32 PM
Quote from: smedindy on October 20, 2017, 01:34:56 PM
I really do think each division needs its own championship week. D3 first, then D2, then D1.

I agree with you. Lacrosse has them all on the same weekend and I sometimes love that and sometimes wish DIII got a bigger spotlight.
But,Dave, I have gotten the impression that Lacrosse and the "Lacrosse nation" are a different breed, and the mega-weekend seems to work in that sport.

Is that partially correct?  Thanks

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 22, 2017, 08:46:18 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on October 20, 2017, 01:35:32 PM
Quote from: smedindy on October 20, 2017, 01:34:56 PM
I really do think each division needs its own championship week. D3 first, then D2, then D1.

I agree with you. Lacrosse has them all on the same weekend and I sometimes love that and sometimes wish DIII got a bigger spotlight.
But,Dave, I have gotten the impression that Lacrosse and the "Lacrosse nation" are a different breed, and the mega-weekend seems to work in that sport.

Is that partially correct?  Thanks

They are a different bread and the DIII title game for men is well attended (sometimes equal attendance to the semifinals and even final games [individually] for DI). However, I feel the current men's structure for the tournament is a mess because of their size and the Memorial Day Weekend game. More importantly, I think the DIII women are completely lost in the weekend. They had been paired with the DI women for awhile which had worked, but once in awhile (like last year) they are on their own and no one seems to notice (besides Salem who hosted them).

I just feel DIII deserves a slightly brighter spotlight. Women's lacrosse as well (DI title game was held BEFORE the DII and DIII men's title games on Memorial Day Weekend Sunday). The men's weekend is also hit or miss depending on the location and stadium. Lacrosse is moving back to smaller stadiums in the future which may help.

Let me also say, men's lacrosse seems to have a different camaraderie than the women's game as well. I am also not thrilled with DIII men's lacrosse, especially the championships committee, in how it has been handling the growth of the sport. The "old boys network" seems to be controlling things (like two regions for a sport of 200 institutions) and it is a joke. Someone should actually file a lawsuit... but that is a different conversation I could get into.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Going to through out a tease for everyone... I just put together a Hoopsville audio-only podcast regarding a new national coordinator for officials at the Division III level. A full story and the podcast will be online sometime soon - not sure the exact ETA. You can learn a lot more then. :)
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

smedindy

Quote from: hopefan on October 18, 2017, 04:45:59 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 17, 2017, 11:06:21 PM
Quote from: hopefan on October 17, 2017, 03:14:40 PM
Quote from: hopefan on October 12, 2017, 11:11:54 PM
Well Well Well... 2 days after I told about the horse race to see who would be the last D3 school to post their schedule, 6 of the missing 8 have shown up... thanks to the SIDs of Johnson State, Albertus Magnus, Lesley, Wilson, Rosemont, and Stockton for responding..

Leaving the final 2

Amherst   and   Greensboro

I will say that both of these schools have historically been extremely late in getting their schedule posted!!   Who knows why....

Amherst got theirs posted, I've given up on Greensboro... why one school of 427 would not have their schedule posted after practice has started is beyond me... My pointing it out to the SID (in a friendly way) has not helped...

I was going to say -- we have Amherst's schedule on our site. And 25 games for Greensboro:
http://www.d3hoops.com/teams/Greensboro/Men/2017-18/index

I agree Pat.. but the 25 games are backed into from everyone else's schedules... pity the poor Greensboro college fan who doesn't know about D3hoops.com and goes to the Greensboro site, only to still find the 2016-17 schedule posted!! :'(

Greensboro does have their schedule posted, in case you were wondering.

sac

How were officials assigned for the national tournament before?

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Quote from: sac on October 30, 2017, 12:17:33 PM
How were officials assigned for the national tournament before?

Usually the NCAA contacted the conference commissioners and thus the conference assigners and a list of names, or specific names, were given to the NCAA for assigning. Those names could be provided with no specific criteria or evaluation added... so sometimes (a lot of times) assigners made sure to help their guys out to get them games late in the year. Also, once a ref did a game they would most likely done for the tournament. And the final four was basically one ref from every region provided for the games (maybe a couple of extras, but I can't remember off the top of my head).

That entire system will be blown up and eventually Haney (and his women's basketball counterpart) will do all of the assigning. It may not work exactly that way this year, but at least the choices will be based more on merit and skills than in the past.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

Just Bill

#112
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on October 30, 2017, 12:27:00 PM
Quote from: sac on October 30, 2017, 12:17:33 PM
How were officials assigned for the national tournament before?

Usually the NCAA contacted the conference commissioners and thus the conference assigners and a list of names, or specific names, were given to the NCAA for assigning. Those names could be provided with no specific criteria or evaluation added... so sometimes (a lot of times) assigners made sure to help their guys out to get them games late in the year. Also, once a ref did a game they would most likely done for the tournament. And the final four was basically one ref from every region provided for the games (maybe a couple of extras, but I can't remember off the top of my head).

That entire system will be blown up and eventually Haney (and his women's basketball counterpart) will do all of the assigning. It may not work exactly that way this year, but at least the choices will be based more on merit and skills than in the past.
Close. Each region had a regional coordinator that would work with the conference coordinators to make assignments in their section of the bracket. For the semifinals and finals there was a rotating order of regions, so each regional coordinator of those regions whose turn it was would send their best three officials to the finals. The championships committee would then decide which crew would work which game, attempting to not put refs and teams from the same region in the same game.

From what I've heard I don't think the system will be blown up that much. Just the chain of command will be changed. The National Coordinator will still have to rely heavily on the Regional Coordinators to make early round assignments. Because there's simply no way that the NC can know EVERY ref in the country.

The big difference is that assignments previously were approved or denied by the championships committee and the NCAA liaison, who often didn't have any detailed knowledge of the referees or officiating experience. Now, the National Coordinator will be the point person for the NCAA to make those approvals. Being that they are experienced referees and can focus on just this area, they should have a better handle and understanding on the composition of the officiating crews. Will relieve the Championships Committee and the NCAA liaison of a time-consuming responsibility and will be able to do a better job at it.
"That seems silly and pointless..." - Hoops Fan

The first and still most accurate description of the D3 Championship BeltTM thread.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

#113
Quote from: Just Bill on October 30, 2017, 12:36:29 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on October 30, 2017, 12:27:00 PM
Quote from: sac on October 30, 2017, 12:17:33 PM
How were officials assigned for the national tournament before?

Usually the NCAA contacted the conference commissioners and thus the conference assigners and a list of names, or specific names, were given to the NCAA for assigning. Those names could be provided with no specific criteria or evaluation added... so sometimes (a lot of times) assigners made sure to help their guys out to get them games late in the year. Also, once a ref did a game they would most likely done for the tournament. And the final four was basically one ref from every region provided for the games (maybe a couple of extras, but I can't remember off the top of my head).

That entire system will be blown up and eventually Haney (and his women's basketball counterpart) will do all of the assigning. It may not work exactly that way this year, but at least the choices will be based more on merit and skills than in the past.
Close. Each region had a regional coordinator that would work with the conference coordinators to make assignments in their section of the bracket. For the semifinals and finals there was a rotating order of regions, so each regional coordinator of those regions whose turn it was would send their best three officials to the finals. The championships committee would then decide which crew would work which game, attempting to not put refs and teams from the same region in the same game.

Much of this was changed a few years ago. We have had each region represented in terms of refs for a few years now. The crews would be a mixture of regions (three for example) not one full crew from a region. Obviously, if a team was from a particular region, that ref was not used for that game. It allowed for the ref crews to be mixed and matched according to who was in what game. What you describe was how it was for a number of years prior.

Quote from: Just Bill on October 30, 2017, 12:36:29 PM
From what I've heard I don't think the system will be blown up that much. Just the chain of command will be changed. The National Coordinator will still have to rely heavily on the Regional Coordinators to make early round assignments. Because there's simply no way that the NC can know EVERY ref in the country.

The big difference is that assignments previously were approved or denied by the championships committee and the NCAA liaison, who often didn't have any detailed knowledge of the referees or officiating experience. Now, the National Coordinator will be the point person for the NCAA to make those approvals. Being that they are experienced referees and can focus on just this area, they should have a better handle and understanding on the composition of the officiating crews. Will relieve the Championships Committee and the NCAA liaison of a time-consuming responsibility and will be able to do a better job at it.

Feel free to listen to the podcast I had with Jim Haney. He discusses his plans to blow up much of it actually. They will rely on the regional coordinators, but he hopes in the future to make the assignments himself and not rely on the regional coordinators to make those assignments. It will be based on evaluations and basically grades. It won't happen that way this year, but that is his goal.

Also, Jim will be able to assign officials to more than one round of games. If they do a good enough job, he plans to move them through the tournament just as teams move through and thus reward them. He hopes that those who are working the final four games have actually worked one or two games earlier in the tournament as well. That is not always the case - sometimes never the case - in the past.

Like I said, listen to the podcast. I have had several on and off the air conversations with Jim Haney in the last six weeks and plan to have him, and hopefully the women's coordinator, on Hoopsville often in the future.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

Just Bill

I admittedly have a firmer grasp on WBB than on MBB. They do not assign finals officials in the manner you describe. As usual, I suspect MBB and WBB will each have their own unique way that they will operate.
"That seems silly and pointless..." - Hoops Fan

The first and still most accurate description of the D3 Championship BeltTM thread.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Quote from: Just Bill on October 30, 2017, 01:40:21 PM
I admittedly have a firmer grasp on WBB than on MBB. They do not assign finals officials in the manner you describe. As usual, I suspect MBB and WBB will each have their own unique way that they will operate.

They have adjusted things at each final four with each national committee and with each coaches' organization (NABC and WBCA) for a number of years. I am sure this could have been adjusted differently than the women's. It hasn't been a topic of conversation on the women's side maybe because traditionally I go to the men's final four (lots of reasons), so I can't say for sure.

That all said... I will be sure to check in on the women's side soon to find out what is going on and to compare. I suspect the women's coordinator will be a future guest on Hoopsville as well (have had more difficulty getting info from that side of things unfortunately).
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.