Regional Rankings and SOS

Started by DIIISuperfan, February 20, 2013, 02:38:43 PM

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magicman

I follow your logic, Dave. I just think that head to head win by Plattsburgh is the deciding factor for me. As long as we are talking about ifs, consider this. Skidmore's 2-4 record vRRO has 4 games against the Liberty League's #2 seed Hobart and the LL's #3 seed Clarkson in which they went 2-2. Outside their league they were 0-2 vRRO. Here's the if...if the #2 seed in the SUNYAC, Geneseo, and the 3# seed in the SUNYAC, Oswego, were regionally ranked in place of the 2 LL teams ( and that's not a big leap) then Plattsburgh State would have a  4-1 record vRRO. I realize this is only conjecture on my part, but those 2 SUNYAC teams, in my opinion were better than Hobart and Clarkson. If those 2 LL teams were in the SUNYAC I don't believe they would have finished 2nd and 3rd in our league. I've seen every one of these teams play on numerous occasions this year and that's what I'm basing my opinion on. We'll just have to disagree on this one, Dave.

On another note you've had some excellent Hoopsville shows this year, good job. I haven't caught as many as I would have liked to because I don't have high speed internet in my home (dial up only). I have to stay at my store and hang out for many extra hours waiting for the show to come on, since I have a high speed connection in town. However after 30 years of bugging the local cable provider, they finally have strung the wire from the road I live on up to my house (I'm about 1000 feet from the road) and will be coming Saturday morning to install, cable TV, high speed internet, and phone service. I'm like a kid who just got his first 2 wheeler. :D                                                             

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

First off... congrats on getting cable and high-speed internet. I wish I knew about your struggles because we introduced a podcast this year which is basically the audio-only version of the show... could have allowed you to enjoy the show in a lot more places. Oh well LOL. Thank you for at least tuning into the show... I do appreciate it and your kind words about the show.

As for your points on the SUNYAC and Liberty... while I agree that Oswego and Geneseo may appear to be better, the challenge is there is no actual "eye test" when it comes to these things. There can't be. And sure, if the SUNYAC was ranked, it would help Plattsburgh... but they aren't so it can't.

Also, you can't remove the conference games that are giving Skidmore the 2-2 part of their vRRO. This is the bone of contention I had with a regional committee coach last year on Hoopsville. The regional committee ranks the teams, they can't then go punish the teams for then having more vRROs than others because they ranked multiple teams in the conference. Sure, when it comes to head-to-head you can remove the game(s) from vRRO to keep from considering it twice, but not games a team has played in a conference that then has multiple teams ranked accordingly. That is punishing a team for what the committee considers playing in a tough conference. So while I appreciate that Skidmore wouldn't have the same vRRO if they hadn't played two teams in the Liberty twice... those two other teams in the conference are ranked and thus they deserve to have that data included (doesn't mean the committee won't analyze that data carefully in turn).

Basically, I just don't feel a single head-to-head game is enough to ignore a nearly "significant" difference in the SOS along with a better vRRO. However, we will find out later today if the East Region and the National Committees agree or not with either of our arguments/points.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

magicman

Dave,

I'm pretty sure they will agree with yours. Which means that Plattsburgh State will have to win the automatic bid that comes with taking home the SUNYAC Championship. That's how we prefer to make the NCAA field anyway, and hope our season will continue because we achieve that goal.

Regarding the podcast you referred to I probably couldn't have gotten that either at my house because I had problems trying to get audio feeds from games when I was at my home. I could usually get live stats but there were a number of times when I couldn't even pull them in. I spend a lot of time in my office at my store during basketball season, basically making Mrs. magicman a basketball widow from mid October until Salem weekend is over. She, more than anyone, is ecstatic that technology has finally come to our household. She won't have to spend 4 or 5 nights home alone until I roll in around 11 PM.     

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

magicman

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 25, 2015, 01:57:16 PM
Final public men's basketball regional rankings are out: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2015/02/25/final-public-ncaa-regional-rankings-released/

You got your wish, magicman!

I'm happy it turned out that way Dave, but a little surprised, not that Plattsburgh was 2nd (well a little bit), but I thought that Skidmore, by gaining the top seed in the Liberty League would probably move ahead of Hobart. Apparently the two h2h wins that Hobart had over the Thoroughbreds was enough to keep the Statesmen in front of them in the rankings. I'm guessing the National committee had something to do with the final order of the teams.   

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Yeah... ignore conference standings... not a factor... so thus just because Skidmore is on top of the conference, two h2h losses would hurt their chances.

To make your head spin a bit... if this came down to Plattsburgh-Skidmore... the committee might have had one thought. If they compared Plattsburgh-Hobart... they may have had another thought. When they compared Hobart-Skidmore, that might have resulted in questioning the other two ... so they turn this into a three-team comparison and that might be how you get 2, 3, 4 there.

As for national input/changes... I don't know as I have not asked as of yet.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

dcahill44

Slightly surprised that Skidmore slipped to 4 as there SOS number is a considerably high than Plattsburgh and a lot higher than Hobart. National Committee did have input and made changes.

magicman

Quote from: dcahill44 on February 25, 2015, 04:07:11 PM
Slightly surprised that Skidmore slipped to 4 as there SOS number is a considerably high than Plattsburgh and a lot higher than Hobart. National Committee did have input and made changes.

How do you know this is true Derek?

magicman

So the 3rd set of Regional rankings for the East ended up in this order.

1. St John Fisher
2. Plattsburgh State
3. Hobart
4. Skidmore
5. NYU
6. Clarkson

Already there are changes in store for the one we won't see next week as #3 Hobart lost by a 69-59 score to #6 Clarkson. With Skidmore killing RIT 50-30, it looks like the Golden Knights will travel to Saratoga to face Skidmore for the LL title

dcahill44

Looking like the East will not get any Pool C bids this year if Fisher wins the E8, Plattsburgh wins the SUNYAC, and Skidmore wins the Liberty League. I think if Fisher loses in the conference tournament they will be on the bubble because of there low SOS numbers but i think they will ultimately get in tho. Despite the great record.

7express

Quote from: dcahill44 on February 26, 2015, 09:40:05 AM
Looking like the East will not get any Pool C bids this year if Fisher wins the E8, Plattsburgh wins the SUNYAC, and Skidmore wins the Liberty League. I think if Fisher loses in the conference tournament they will be on the bubble because of there low SOS numbers but i think they will ultimately get in tho. Despite the great record.

If Fisher, Plattsburgh and Skidmore all win their leagues and NYU beats Brandeis Saturday, NYU very well might be the first East rep and that maybe enough to get them in late in the process.  However if any of those 3 teams lose, NYU is definitely out and the East probably gets no bids (unless Fisher is the one that lost).

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Pretty much said that exact same thing in Hoopsville last night.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

dcahill44

No at large bids for the East Region hopefully somebody can make a run in the East. Fisher has a tough pod. Hoping to watch WPI and Amherst next weekend at Fisher, should be some great basketball.

spwood

Quote from: 7express on February 27, 2015, 03:29:45 AM
Quote from: dcahill44 on February 26, 2015, 09:40:05 AM
Looking like the East will not get any Pool C bids this year if Fisher wins the E8, Plattsburgh wins the SUNYAC, and Skidmore wins the Liberty League. I think if Fisher loses in the conference tournament they will be on the bubble because of there low SOS numbers but i think they will ultimately get in tho. Despite the great record.

If Fisher, Plattsburgh and Skidmore all win their leagues and NYU beats Brandeis Saturday, NYU very well might be the first East rep and that maybe enough to get them in late in the process.  However if any of those 3 teams lose, NYU is definitely out and the East probably gets no bids (unless Fisher is the one that lost).

Figures Plattsburgh is the one to prove you right!

dcahill44

#59
A couple weeks away from the Regional Rankings and its looking like one team in the E8 (fisher), Lancaster Bible (if they keep winning) SOS is bad though, NYU and rest will be all SUNYAC in some order. I think teams like Plattsburgh, Oneonta (who I personally think are two of the best teams in the region) and depending on who keeps winning because nobody knows in the SUNYAC. Cortland, Geneseo, Buff State, and Oswego are all up for consideration. We will see how the next 2-3 weeks plays out but i think those 9 teams will all be up for consideration for 6 slots. If the SUNYAC keeps beating up on each other I think it will be a two bid league depending on who wins the conference tournament of course.

Would love to hear other people talk about the upcoming rankings even though we are a couple weeks or so away.