Lacrosse

Started by drisclaw, July 03, 2011, 09:27:41 PM

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PolarCat

Quote from: amh63 on April 02, 2015, 09:45:24 AM
Oh yes....saw a "strange" play near the end of the women's battle between Bates and Bowdoin at Bates.  Game tied at 7-7 with about 5 plus minutes to go.  Bates gets the ball...what does one call the lacrosse ball but a ball...after the P'Bears think they scored but did not.  The goalie tries to pass the ball but cannot and seems to be killing time and goes towards the sideline and then loses the ball to Bowdoin.  With the Goalie out of position, Bowdoin scores which ends up to be the final game winner.
Announcer mentions that there was a yellow card on Bates...player down situation?  Whatever, the situation seemed strange to me and I wonder if the Bates' goalie had instructions to kill some time.
Polarcat....did you catch the game?  Any thoughts?

Sorry for the delayed response - a little thing called "work" interfered!

Yep, my wife and I watched the game from beginning to end.  Bates certainly played well - way better than their record might suggest.  The goalie (Hannah Jeffreys) was particularly impressive. 

I have no clue how that Bowdoin goal got called back - another in a long list of inscrutable calls we've been seeing in the CAC this year.  Normally, there are only three "fouls" a shooter can make: charging, "dangerous propelling", (which means rifling a shot right at the goalie or a defender), or "dangerous follow through" (hitting a defender with her stick on the follow through).  As far as we could tell on the broadcast, the Bowdoin attacker (Mettler Grownie, an elfin little powerhouse two sport athlete) did none of those - and dangerous propelling and dangerous follow through are both mandatory cards.  Since Mettler wasn't carded, we have no idea what the refs thought they saw.  But justice was served when Mettler took advantage of the goalie's mistake a minute later and scored the game winner.

Bates got THREE yellow cards during the game, and I can't remember the last time that happened.  Their first year who had been taking the draws (and quite well) drew a second yellow, so she was suspended for the rest of the game.

Each yellow card is a releasable 2 minute penalty, so when Bowdoin scored Bates went back to full strength (though the first year with 2 yellows could not reenter the game).

Vandy74

#361
Quote from: PolarCat on April 02, 2015, 06:21:07 PM
Quote from: amh63 on April 02, 2015, 09:45:24 AM
Oh yes....saw a "strange" play near the end of the women's battle between Bates and Bowdoin at Bates.  Game tied at 7-7 with about 5 plus minutes to go.  Bates gets the ball...what does one call the lacrosse ball but a ball...after the P'Bears think they scored but did not.  The goalie tries to pass the ball but cannot and seems to be killing time and goes towards the sideline and then loses the ball to Bowdoin.  With the Goalie out of position, Bowdoin scores which ends up to be the final game winner.
Announcer mentions that there was a yellow card on Bates...player down situation?  Whatever, the situation seemed strange to me and I wonder if the Bates' goalie had instructions to kill some time.
Polarcat....did you catch the game?  Any thoughts?

Sorry for the delayed response - a little thing called "work" interfered!

Yep, my wife and I watched the game from beginning to end.  Bates certainly played well - way better than their record might suggest.  The goalie (Hannah Jeffreys) was particularly impressive. 

I have no clue how that Bowdoin goal got called back - another in a long list of inscrutable calls we've been seeing in the CAC this year.  Normally, there are only three "fouls" a shooter can make: charging, "dangerous propelling", (which means rifling a shot right at the goalie or a defender), or "dangerous follow through" (hitting a defender with her stick on the follow through).  As far as we could tell on the broadcast, the Bowdoin attacker (Mettler Grownie, an elfin little powerhouse two sport athlete) did none of those - and dangerous propelling and dangerous follow through are both mandatory cards.  Since Mettler wasn't carded, we have no idea what the refs thought they saw.  But justice was served when Mettler took advantage of the goalie's mistake a minute later and scored the game winner.

Bates got THREE yellow cards during the game, and I can't remember the last time that happened.  Their first year who had been taking the draws (and quite well) drew a second yellow, so she was suspended for the rest of the game.

Each yellow card is a releasable 2 minute penalty, so when Bowdoin scored Bates went back to full strength (though the first year with 2 yellows could not reenter the game).

Check page 26 of the rule book.  Goals can be disallowed for several reasons that have nothing to do with fouls or carded infractions.  Without having witnessed the event I can only speculate but the most obvious reason would seem that either the Bowdoin player or a teammate inadvertently stepped inside the goal circle.  All they would have needed to do is have any portion of their foot inside the area.  The goal would have also been disallowed if the attacking team was offside.  It's Rule 4, section 9, I believe.  Some possible reasons for the goal not to count have been eliminated by PolarCat's eyewitness account.  There are a few others listed as well.  An attacker inside the goal circle or an offside violation would seem to be the most likely ruling however.

amh63

Saw that Amherst's women's team won over Williams tonight at home.  It was tied 7-7 at the half but a 2nd half surge of 10 goals by the LJs gave Amherst the win...3-3 in the conference.  Next up is Conn College. 

PolarCat

Quote from: Vandy74 on April 03, 2015, 07:36:54 PM

Check page 26 of the rule book.  Goals can be disallowed for several reasons that have nothing to do with fouls or carded infractions.  Without having witnessed the event I can only speculate but the most obvious reason would seem that either the Bowdoin player or a teammate inadvertently stepped inside the goal circle.  All they would have needed to do is have any portion of their foot inside the area.  The goal would have also been disallowed if the attacking team was offside.  It's Rule 4, section 9, I believe.  Some possible reasons for the goal not to count have been eliminated by PolarCat's eyewitness account.  There are a few others listed as well.  An attacker inside the goal circle or an offside violation would seem to be the most likely ruling however.

So the humble guy at the scorer's table who professes to know nothing about the game starts citing chapter and verse of the rule book?  YIKES!

There was no attacking player in the goal circle (the play would have been called a "break away" in hockey).  While it's possible that Bowdoin was offside, I find it highly unlikely.  They are a very disciplined team, and usually the way an offensive offside is called is when a defender runs a clear into the offensive zone, and a midfielder fails to come back over the restraining line during the clear.  That didn't happen here.

I do wish the videos stayed posted online longer, so that there was some lingering "evidence" to be analyzed.  A teaching moment, as it were.  As it is, it's just my speculation based on my memory (which at my age is going to Hell in an Easter basket).

PolarCat

Big game day for the NESCAC women today.  Middlebury travels to their nemesis Colby for an 11:00 start, while Hamilton tries to knock off top ranked Trinity in the Coop at noon.  Both games should have National ranking impact.

Conn travels to Bates in what is probably a must win game for either team if they hope to make the tournament.  While Wes travels to Tufts in a game that should be an easy win for the Jumbos.  Bowdoin gets a bit of a respite, taking on non-league Endicott at 3:00.

Happy Easter everyone!

amh63

Your roving reporter of sorts...
Amherst wins over Williams in Willytown on the men's side.  Amherst led in every period.
On the women's side...Middlebury's beats Colby 7-5 in the featured conference game..as PolarCat cited.  Bowdoin won its out of conference match and the other scores, I forgot while posting :'(
Leave the details to others.

Vandy74

Quote from: amh63 on April 04, 2015, 05:17:48 PM
Your roving reporter of sorts...
Amherst wins over Williams in Willytown on the men's side.  Amherst led in every period.
On the women's side...Middlebury's beats Colby 7-5 in the featured conference game..as PolarCat cited.  Bowdoin won its out of conference match and the other scores, I forgot while posting :'(
Leave the details to others.

Just got home from a long day of drafting my fantasy baseball team.   I didn't do a very good job.  But that's OT for this board.  Both Middlebury teams won today I see.  I would have loved to attend the men's home game especially after needing to clear two inches of snow off my car this morning.  The women beat a Colby team that has had their number lately. 

PolarCat......I found a PDF download of the rule book a few years back.  I was able to find the site again for an updated version.  When in doubt Google it.  Was play stopped to award the GK ball possession or did she have it after a goal had seemingly been scored but never recognized as such, i.e. the ball went into the net but as far as the refs were concerned she made a save?  Since Bowdoin scored soon afterward it doesn't matter I guess.  You're right.  The officiating too often is  harder to understand than some of the rules themselves.  The disallowing of a goal because the shooter is fouled in the act and then awarded what can be a difficult free position shot bothers me the most.

PolarCat

Quote from: Vandy74 on April 04, 2015, 06:04:46 PM
PolarCat......I found a PDF download of the rule book a few years back.  I was able to find the site again for an updated version.  When in doubt Google it.  Was play stopped to award the GK ball possession or did she have it after a goal had seemingly been scored but never recognized as such, i.e. the ball went into the net but as far as the refs were concerned she made a save?  Since Bowdoin scored soon afterward it doesn't matter I guess.  You're right.  The officiating too often is  harder to understand than some of the rules themselves.  The disallowing of a goal because the shooter is fouled in the act and then awarded what can be a difficult free position shot bothers me the most.

We've probably bored and chased off everyone else on this board, but since it's a slow afternoon, I'll respond anyway.

Yes, I have the PDF of the NCAA rules (which differs slightly from the USLacrosse rules).  In the play in question, the ball went into the net, then the refs awarded the ball to Bates.  According to Bowdoin parents in attendance (we were only watching the online broadcast, with an announcer who was pretty clueless), the call was the offender crossed into the crease after shooting.  It sure didn't look that way on TV, nor did it look that way to the parents, but it's an admittedly partisan crowd.

For what it's worth, the team that reffed the Bowdoin / Endicott game today did a MUCH better job.  Pure professionalism from beginning to end.  Hope we can entice them back if we host a playoff game.  (Somewhat unbelievably, today was Senior Day and Bowdoin's last home game of the regular season.  The snowbanks lining Whittier Field are still 4 feet high, and the temperature was still miserable - isn't lacrosse supposed to be a "Spring" sport?  That damn Punxatawney Phil.  I am going to start a gorilla marketing campaign, telling the world that groundhog tastes like chicken.  Maybe I can enlist the help of the cows from the Chick-Fil-A campaign?)

amh63

#368
PolarCat......interesting weather remarks for a person whose family attends schools in Maine and went to schools in NE....one that made Winter Carnival into a legendary event! :)
With regards to your suggestion of an ad campaign.....how about a "flash mob" using the Internet?  Seems that I read somewhere that there was an Amherst person may have come up with the flash mob concept......then again, that maybe another false rumor.

Vandy74.....hope your Cuz is staying out of trouble....and your niece is enjoying her time at Amherst.
Speaking of baseball......Amherst played its two first games against Middlebury in Auburn, Ma.....wherever that is?  Panthers seem to have a poor pitching staff, based on the results :).

magicman

#369
Plattsburgh State Men defeated Geneseo State 16-6 on Saturday to improve to 9-3 overall and 2-0 in the SUNYAC. They get a double dose of Red Dragons back to back as they travel to Oneonta State on Wednesday and then host Cortland State on Saturday. Hopefully they won't be looking past the Oneonta Red Dragons in anticipation of the Saturday matchup against the perennial conference champion Cortland Red Dragons.

15th ranked Cortland defeated 10th ranked Ithaca College 11-10 in double overtime on Wednesday April 1st. It was the 3rd straight year that Cortland has defeated Ithaca in overtime. This Saturday's game against Plattsburgh could determine the #1 seed for the SUNYAC playoffs.

Also on Saturday afternoon the Cortland Women ranked #5, defeated 17th ranked Geneseo State 17-7. It was the first loss of the season for the Knights who are now 6-1. The Red Dragons upped their record to 9-1. Three games in the next 7 days for Cortland, all at home, with the biggest game coming next Sunday as they host the 11th ranked Tufts Jumbos. Cortland plays Oneonta on Tuesday and Oswego on Saturday prior to the Tufts matchup. They finish the regular season with 3 conference games, all on the road.   

PolarCat

#370
Magicman,

Thanks for breaking up the monotony / monopoly of NESCAC posts here.  Also for striking a blow for gender equality! 

We'll be watching the rest of the Cortland Women's schedule with great interest.  Good for the Jumbo's for making that long bus trip.  They are making the most of their travel budget, playing Hamilton on Saturday and Cortland on Sunday.  It's a mini homecoming for their HC who was co-head coach at Cortland before taking the Tufts position.

Pretty punishing road trip, though, playing two top 10 teams in a 27 hour span.  I expect they will be pretty beat by the time they return home and start preparing for Amherst and Bowdoin.

amh63

#371
Magicman.....how is it that your Cardinals get good lacrosse players?  Aware that it is a Native American game...any Native American players?...being serious here....Amherst is always looking out for such students with that background...truly.  On that subject, many years ago I was informed that Maine has a large Native American presence....even reservations.  Discussed it recently with a friend who has several pieces of property in Maine, including a family farm...and goes up each summer to keep them in shape.  Where am I going?...who really knows, but I'm thinking if the tribes in Maine play the sport, or are only the tribes of the NY region the originators.  I know, I should look it up online!

PolarCat

If you're looking for something to watch on Tuesday (yes, Tuesday) evening, the Bowdoin Women's Polar Bears are hosting the Colby White Mules at 7:00 PM, in a battle of top 10 teams.  (The IWCLA Coaches Poll hasn't been released yet today, but I suspect Colby will drop from last week's number 2 spot after their loss to Middlebury, while Bowdoin may move up a spot or two from #7).

The video can be found here: http://nsnsports.net/colleges/bowdoin-college/

Vandy74

Quote from: amh63 on April 06, 2015, 01:17:06 PM
Magicman.....how is it that your Cardinals get good lacrosse players?  Aware that it is a Native American game...any Native American players?...being serious here....Amherst is always looking out for such students with that background...truly.  On that subject, many years ago I was informed that Maine has a large Native American presence....even reservations.  Discussed it recently with a friend who has several pieces of property in Maine, including a family farm...and goes up each summer to keep them in shape.  Where am I going?...who really knows, but I'm thinking if the tribes in Maine play the sport, or are only the tribes of the NY region the originators.  I know, I should look it up online!

amh63......not sure if magicman's encyclopedic knowledge of basketball extends to lax and I make no such claims myself but somewhere along the line I learned that the game was initially played by the Algonquin tribes of the St. Lawrence Valley (remember the game being played in a scene from the most recent "Last of the Mohicans" movie) followed by the other Eastern Woodlands tribes, those along the western Great Lakes region and some Plains Indians in what is now Canada.  Since early settlers must have learned it from the Native Americans in their areas it's odd that to any great extent the upper Midwest is only now showing interest.  The exception being in Ohio where schools like Denison and Ohio Wesleyan have men's programs as old if not older than those of some NESCAC schools.  I believe I have mentioned previously a retired Middlebury College English prof friend, Denison '61, who considered playing lacrosse when he realized his high school football ability didn't extend to the college game.  Denison is located in Granville, O., not Dennison, O. btw, which was originally settled by people from Mass. and Conn. who were attracted to the New England-like landscape they had come from.  It is to be assumed they brought a familiarity of the game with them as well.

Vandy74

Quote from: PolarCat on April 06, 2015, 01:59:47 PM
If you're looking for something to watch on Tuesday (yes, Tuesday) evening, the Bowdoin Women's Polar Bears are hosting the Colby White Mules at 7:00 PM, in a battle of top 10 teams.  (The IWCLA Coaches Poll hasn't been released yet today, but I suspect Colby will drop from last week's number 2 spot after their loss to Middlebury, while Bowdoin may move up a spot or two from #7).

The video can be found here: http://nsnsports.net/colleges/bowdoin-college/

Thanks for the heads up PolarCat.  I might just do that.