BB: E8: Empire 8

Started by maxpower, February 23, 2007, 12:22:17 PM

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airball55

To me, Ithaca was not even in the conversation.  They only played two games in the last two weeks, lost both and had a regional record of 22-10.  Fisher, played anyone and everyone, got to 30 and still didn't get in. I guarantee that if Ithaca had the same resume, they would be playing.  I looked pretty close at the selections and Baldwin Wallace just shocks me. They had some real nice wins, but, also had some pretty bad loses.  It is supposed to be based on region record, Fisher obviously doesn't get the nod.  So, at the end of the day, the two and three teams by rankings in NY don't get in.  That pretty much sums up what the committee thinks of NY. 30-8 and they didn't even get in the conversation.  Yikes.

AlleyCat

The NCAA committee had never thought of NY as a good region. It's a shame but until NY gets the walnut and bronze and is in the discussion every year as a contender, the committee looks at it as a place to ship other teams. I agree, St John Fisher should probably had a better look. 2 words for the Empire 8 - automatic bid. Find a way to make it happen.

Bombers798891

Fisher played 7 games against RRO, went 3-4 in those games, and had an SOS that was 92nd.

Baldwin Wallace played (I think) 20 games against RRO, went 11-9 in those games and finished with an SOS that ranked 13th.

I mean, if Ithaca's "not even in the conversation," and, at least according to the Regional Rankings, the Bombers were one of Fisher's strongest opponents, and Fisher lost three of those four games, exactly what is holding up their resume?

D3SportsFan

The E8 is still several years from an AQ. Even with Elmira joining next year, the conference will sit at 6 teams. Once a seventh team joins, the conference will have a 2-year provisional term before an AQ is granted, correct?

Does anyone know of conversations about a seventh baseball member joining the conference? Which unaffiliated colleges could be considered, or colleges looking to jump into the E8?

airball55

30-8 for fisher.  8-2 against NCAA tournament teams, which, was in the discussion.  A top 100 strength of schedule.  Number two in the region.  If you took the names off of Cortland and Fisher, just compared resumes...you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.  Listen, they dropped the ball against Ithaca at home, hats off to a bombers squad that did what they could without their starting SS and basically 5 pitchers.  Honestly, even if Fisher took 2 or three, I still don't think they get it.  Ithaca played 2 games the last two weeks!!! I think Coach V. thought they had done enough, but, taking three of four against the region's number two team wasn't enough at the time.  They also I believe had the most wins in the region against .500 or better opponents, another part of the criteria.  I wish for all NY to get a bit more love.  30-8 is 30-8.  As for the AQ, with Elmira it gets the league to six with no other team on the horizon.  Good for RIT moving to a league where they at least can play for it.  An AQ is a big deal for these teams.

John McGraw

Quote from: D3SportsFan on May 12, 2014, 01:45:21 PM
The E8 is still several years from an AQ. Even with Elmira joining next year, the conference will sit at 6 teams. Once a seventh team joins, the conference will have a 2-year provisional term before an AQ is granted, correct?

Does anyone know of conversations about a seventh baseball member joining the conference? Which unaffiliated colleges could be considered, or colleges looking to jump into the E8?

Alfred State, currently transitioning from the NJCAA, could be a possible affiliate member in baseball depending on which multi-sport conference the school joins.

Bombers798891

Quote from: airball55 on May 12, 2014, 02:54:30 PM
30-8 for fisher.  8-2 against NCAA tournament teams, which, was in the discussion.  A top 100 strength of schedule.  Number two in the region.  If you took the names off of Cortland and Fisher, just compared resumes...you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.  Listen, they dropped the ball against Ithaca at home, hats off to a bombers squad that did what they could without their starting SS and basically 5 pitchers.  Honestly, even if Fisher took 2 or three, I still don't think they get it.  Ithaca played 2 games the last two weeks!!! I think Coach V. thought they had done enough, but, taking three of four against the region's number two team wasn't enough at the time.  They also I believe had the most wins in the region against .500 or better opponents, another part of the criteria.  I wish for all NY to get a bit more love.  30-8 is 30-8.  As for the AQ, with Elmira it gets the league to six with no other team on the horizon.  Good for RIT moving to a league where they at least can play for it.  An AQ is a big deal for these teams.

http://d3baseball.com/interactive/faq/ncaaTournament#pool

1. "8-2 against NCAA tournament teams"
2. "They also I believe had the most wins in the region against .500 or better opponents"
3. "Number two in the region."

Unless I'm misinterpreting something, none of these things are mentioned as selection criteria.

4. "A top 100 strength of schedule."

96th. Only one Pool C team had an SOS below 38. (Tufts, 97th). Given how borderline Tufts was, not the argument you think it is.


5. "Ithaca played 2 games the last two weeks!!!"

Irrelevant, since Ithaca did not qualify for the NCAAs, no one has claimed that they should have, and we're discussing St. John Fisher. Also--and stop me if you've heard this before--not part of the selection criteria


Again, I may be misinterpreting the wording here, so if someone feels like correcting me, go ahead. But I don't see how most of what you brought up in your post has anything to do with the actual criteria for selection

D3SportsFan

Yes, Alfred State is a possibility. How many more years until Alfred State is a full DIII member? This chart makes it seem like not until 2017-2018, 4 more years, but I thought provisional members only had a 2-year period.

http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2014-15%20Provisional%2C%20Reclassifying%20and%20Exploratory%20Chart.pdf

airball55

Sorry, let me clarify.  Win-loss versus D3 opponents: 30-8 .789%. Strength of schedule in region..no one in NY does to well here because not everyone plays Cortland.  The .500 point I made was OWP, etc...Make no mistake, I am pulling for everyone here. The strength of opponents opponents and etc...I am not going to read that far.  Bottom line is that that Fisher didn't get it done against Ithaca and my point was it may still not have mattered.  In Ithaca's case, D3 baseball kept bringing them up in the discussion, that's why I brought them up, I just thought Fisher's overall body of work was better.  I just don't see how these teams can make it unless they win 33-35 games.  One bad weekend and pooooof, it's over.  I certainly hoped Ithaca would have had the chance to defend the regional.  This tells you how far off I was, not only did I think Fisher would make it...they would be the two seed. 

D3SportsFan

It's a very difficult road to the NCAA tournament, particularly as a Pool B team. A Pool B team's criteria needs to be as strong, if not much stronger, than other teams who may earn an AQ (especially those who are not favorites to win a conference tournament).

In-region records only
AQ: Haverford (22-18, #51); no bid: Gettysburg (31-8, #254)
AQ: Illinois Wesleyan (24-16, #39); no bid: Augustana (29-12, #166)
AQ: Worcester St. (24-13, #123); no bid: Salem St. (29-16, #70)
AQ: DePauw (23-19, #91); no bid: Wooster (29-15, #60), Allegheny (27-14, #57)
AQ: Thomas More (23-17, #281); no bid: Washington & Jefferson (29-15, #143)

AQ: John Carroll (24-15, #7) with Marietta (29-14, #2) and Heidelberg (31-11, #12) earning bids also.
AQ: Wesleyan (27-11, #140) with Tufts (31-7, #97) and Amherst (28-9, #32) earning bids also.

Other Pool C bids:
Moravian (32-10, #28)
Southern Maine (31-12, #15)
Kean (31-12, #38)
Rutgers-Camden (26-11-1, #22)
Baldwin-Wallace (25-14, #13)
Shenandoah (31-9, #19)
Birmingham Southern (35-10, #30)
Rhodes (27-14, #26)
UW-Stevens Pt. (29-11, #3)
UW-La Crosse (26-16, #4)


In comparison to the 2 who earned bids, the correct bids were given.

Case (30-10; 30-10, .750; .5844(18); #14)
Emory (29-10; 27-9, .750; .5894(13); #16)

Ithaca (26-10; 22-10, .688; .5623(43); #42)
SJFC (31-11; 30-8, .789; .5390(95); #96)


Unfortunately, 2014 was a year where 30-8 as a pool B just wasn't enough. One very big reason why the Empire8 needs to expand for an AQ. If other top 50 SOS teams would have won Pool A bids, then it may have helped SJFC's chances.

Spence

It's not that 30 wins isn't enough, it's that there weren't enough quality wins and they went 1-3 against Ithaca. Ithaca was probably higher in the regional rankings, and so if Ithaca doesn't get in, Fisher isn't even on the board.

jdex

Thought here is Ithaca being twice weathered out of games with Cortland dearly cost the Bombers. Though it's a big rivalry, games meant more to IC since it has no league AQ. Cortland foremost is conference-minded. Win there, get homefield tourney edge, and let the NCAA playoffs begin. Cortland/Ithaca series always mid-week when Joe Brown will throw down-the-line arms, who have struggled this season. IC staff a bit deeper. CSt offense, with more punch, probably would have had to deliver to beat hungrier Ithaca. Not having win(s) over Corts on its resume major blow IMO

airball55

Great discussion.  Fisher has to play their conference.  Rochester won't play them.  They beat teams in the worst region in the country and paid for it.  They did go 8-2 against NCAA teams (3-1 Stevens, 1-0 Widener, 1-1 Keystone, 1-0 Rose Hulman, 2-0 Haverford).  I give them credit for playing good teams out of state.  Cortland needs to play the Fisher's and Ithaca's, no doubt.  Not sure why that isn't happening.  As for Cortland's staff, I hope for their safe that's not true in the regional, or it will be bye bye.  Ithaca staff really thin, basically the same five guys all the time.  Ultimately, if Fisher drops 3 of 4 against Ithaca, and that decided their fate, they should just go independent and not play in any conference.  Same for Ithaca, if they have one bad weekend and that's it...then NY is screwed because those two teams are in the top three in the state right now and they won't get a sniff at the NCAA's.  And last I checked, losing to Ithaca isn't all that bad.  Oh well, let's just hope the NY teams represent well.  Fisher ends up ahead of Ithaca in ABCA poll, both teams in top 25, Fisher may be 2 in region as well, neither get in.

sjfcards

Flemister and D'Amato of Fisher were both named All-American yesterday. Flemister named 1st team, and D'Amato named as an honorable-mention. Flemister was also named the New York Region player of the year.

Congrats to both!
GO FISHER!!!

John McGraw

http://empire8.com/news/2015/2/19/BB_0219150131.aspx

SUNY Canton has been added to the Empire 8 as an affiliate member for baseball. A tournament will be held at the end of the regular season to crown an Empire 8 champion. With the addition of Canton, the league now has seven baseball playing members which is the threshold for an automatic bid to the NCAA tournament. Normally there is a wait time for a league to be granted an AQ after it reaches seven teams.