Shenandoah, TX 2018-19 NCAA d3fb championships

Started by Ron Boerger, October 13, 2017, 09:46:42 AM

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Teamski

Quote from: wally_wabash on December 11, 2017, 01:32:48 PM
Quote from: Teamski on December 11, 2017, 01:22:27 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on December 11, 2017, 01:10:45 PM
Honestly, that's on y'all.  Don't blame the weather because your guys didn't pack the right shoes.  Anybody wanting to play for championships in D3 has to be ready to play anywhere in December.  If cold is an excuse for a team, they're not ready.

So, you seen no adverse affect on a team practicing in 50-60 degree weather for a 25-35 degree game vs a team that is already there having hosted a string of 30-40 degree games?  Unless you have a fieldhouse that can double as a freezer, you are at a distinct disadvantage.

-Ski

Not really, no.  25-35 isn't even really that cold if we're being honest.  If 25-35 degrees is "adverse", then I have questions about how soft Wesley football is.

Wesley tends to be a fair weather team.

-Ski
Wesley College Football.... A Winning Tradition! A Coach Mike Drass Legacy.

wally_wabash

Quote from: Teamski on December 11, 2017, 01:40:11 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on December 11, 2017, 01:32:48 PM
Quote from: Teamski on December 11, 2017, 01:22:27 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on December 11, 2017, 01:10:45 PM
Honestly, that's on y'all.  Don't blame the weather because your guys didn't pack the right shoes.  Anybody wanting to play for championships in D3 has to be ready to play anywhere in December.  If cold is an excuse for a team, they're not ready.

So, you seen no adverse affect on a team practicing in 50-60 degree weather for a 25-35 degree game vs a team that is already there having hosted a string of 30-40 degree games?  Unless you have a fieldhouse that can double as a freezer, you are at a distinct disadvantage.

-Ski

Not really, no.  25-35 isn't even really that cold if we're being honest.  If 25-35 degrees is "adverse", then I have questions about how soft Wesley football is.

Wesley tends to be a fair weather team.

-Ski

Cool.  They'll be fun to watch until Homecoming, but as far as the tournament goes, they've maxed out.  You can't win this tournament if normal December temperatures in places like Ohio and Wisconsin are uncomfortable. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
"Nothing in the world is more expensive than free."- The Deacon of HBO's The Wire

Teamski

Quote from: wally_wabash on December 11, 2017, 01:57:37 PM
Cool.  They'll be fun to watch until Homecoming, but as far as the tournament goes, they've maxed out.  You can't win this tournament if normal December temperatures in places like Ohio and Wisconsin are uncomfortable. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Point taken.  It doesn't change the fact that the DIII championship should be as neutral as possible for both teams. 

-Ski
Wesley College Football.... A Winning Tradition! A Coach Mike Drass Legacy.

skunks_sidekick

Teamski...I love you man!  You heart is clearly on your sleeve, and I get it.  Men much more rational than me have spelled it out for you my man.  You are somewhat showing your "Ohio weather sucks & don't put it by Mount Union because odds are they will be in it" bias. 

Have you seen the latest weather update?  It's going to be snowing in Salem, and snowing in Canton.  Weather is NOT an issue if you are comparing the two.  I have been to Salem double digit times.  MORE times than not, the weather is NOT good.  I remember 2002 when the weather was warm, but the wind was howling off that one mountain like crazy.  Mount ran the ball the first quarter, and I had some people with me that were saying, "wait, what about this great Mount passing attack?".  I said...wait for it...and when they got the wind it was lights out. 

Based upon my limited (10 going on 11) times attending in Salem, weather is really not a deterrant to having the game in Canton.  Hate on Mount, I am ok with that.  But the show that the HOF, Canton folks, and all that will be involved will be second to none.  Oh by the way, if it snows, they will deal with it.  It's what we do up here.

I was a honk to get the folks up here to bid on the game.  I was probably more gas bag than reality.  However, I knew some people and made some phone calls.  That was many years ago, and none of the people in place now were involved when I was pushing for it.  I am glad they bid on it, and got the game.  These folks are top notch, and will put on a great event.  Mind you, they will need to because the Salem folks have done nothing but notch up their game year after year. 

Teamski...tell Wesley to put on their cold weather gear, watch Rocky IV or whichever movie that was when he was in Russia, and let's have a Wesley/Mount Stagg Bowl in Canton.  I know Wesleydad will be there, and he has an open invitation to stay at my place.

HScoach

I've been to 17 Staff bowls and can honestly say the weather typically sucks.  Especially the wind.   As a  fan of a team that typically has a better passing game than their opponent, I would love to see the game somewhere the wind isn't an issue 80% of the time.
I find easily offended people rather offensive!

Statistics are like bikinis; what they reveal is interesting, what they hide is essential.

smedindy

You know, I've seen it snow at the Sun Bowl, and at the Poulan / Weed Eater Independence Bowl in Shreveport. If you had a game in Alabama or Mississippi this week, then there would be snow.

Of course, nothing compared to the Bills / Colts


Teamski

Quote from: skunks_sidekick on December 11, 2017, 07:18:08 PM

Have you seen the latest weather update?  It's going to be snowing in Salem, and snowing in Canton.  Weather is NOT an issue if you are comparing the two.  I have been to Salem double digit times.  MORE times than not, the weather is NOT good.  I remember 2002 when the weather was warm, but the wind was howling off that one mountain like crazy.  Mount ran the ball the first quarter, and I had some people with me that were saying, "wait, what about this great Mount passing attack?".  I said...wait for it...and when they got the wind it was lights out. 


The funny thing is that I am not defending Salem as a location.  I never was.  I don't think it is a good one to be perfectly honest.  What I am saying is that if the NCAA wants to move the show, they should be looking for more temperate waters.  There is a practical layer in there somewhere.... ;)

-Ski
Wesley College Football.... A Winning Tradition! A Coach Mike Drass Legacy.

wesleydad

Quote from: Teamski on December 11, 2017, 08:26:53 PM
Quote from: skunks_sidekick on December 11, 2017, 07:18:08 PM

Have you seen the latest weather update?  It's going to be snowing in Salem, and snowing in Canton.  Weather is NOT an issue if you are comparing the two.  I have been to Salem double digit times.  MORE times than not, the weather is NOT good.  I remember 2002 when the weather was warm, but the wind was howling off that one mountain like crazy.  Mount ran the ball the first quarter, and I had some people with me that were saying, "wait, what about this great Mount passing attack?".  I said...wait for it...and when they got the wind it was lights out. 


The funny thing is that I am not defending Salem as a location.  I never was.  I don't think it is a good one to be perfectly honest.  What I am saying is that if the NCAA wants to move the show, they should be looking for more temperate waters.  There is a practical layer in there somewhere.... ;)

-Ski

Ski, you have never made the trip to Salem to see a game so I am not sure what your beef with Salem is.  It is easier to get to for most folks than the 2 cities you keep mentioning, Nashville and Memphis, how are they central to D3.  Salem wants the game and does a top notch job with it.  I am going again this year because it is leaving and I don't foresee Wesley making a Stagg in the near future that would get me to fly to Texas.  Now, having never been to the HOF I will certainly take that trip no matter who is in it and will gladly take skunks up on the offer to stay at his place.  This game will be minimally attended because it is D3.  I have loved every game I have attended and Jason and his friend Nick will never forget the Blizzard trip we made.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Couple of comments per what I have read:

- Shenanoah's previous city manager and members of the City Council did know what they were getting involved in. However, the city manager left and three new members of the city council were voted onto the board this past May. Apparently, no one did their homework or got up to speed with the departing city manager before he left. That is their fault, yes, but it doesn't automatically mean they didn't know what was going on when they signed up for this opportunity. Those involved changed, for whatever reason, between the bid being accepted and the meetings this past fall.

- The weather conversation is like beating a dead horse. It snowed last week in the Houston area. Believe it or not, it could snow in Shenandoah if the conditions are right. The game is played outdoors unless you have enough money to have a dome. It is what it is. Not worth arguing for a better place for weather. If we were in Florida, you never know if the game would be swamped by non-stop rain.

- Canton has a new stadium coming that this game will be played as part of a whole complex. Let's not judge the event or the game before we get there. Not much about the place will be the same between now and then just as it isn't the same as it was two years ago there.

- Shenandoah does appear to care less than Salem, but we have also been spoiled. There are very few "Salems" in the NCAA let alone Division III. I would be happy to tell people more about how Salem was screwed by some individuals at the NCAA (not the entity, not the division as a whole)... over a few beers. Salem isn't going to come to the rescue if needed, bet on that. However, we are headed to Shenandoah unless something really goes sideways. Two years and we will move on.

- Attendance in Salem isn't too bad especially outside of the two teams involved. No one is expected sold out. I just don't think, especially in this day in age, it is an expectation to have. Salem did well. Shenandoah probably won't do as well. I can see Canton maybe doing well, but super high attendance numbers just aren't going to happen.

- The size of Detroit's market is not a factor in any way, shape, or form. If anything, it works against an event like this. The bigger the market, the more money it takes to advertise enough to get enough eyeballs on it interested. I worked in the 24th largest market in the country for 14 years... it was like pulling teeth just to get sports to cover DIII teams nationally ranked over DI teams who couldn't sniff a winning season. It isn't like attendance is through the roof at those locations, either. It is actually cheaper to spend money in Salem on media and advertising than it would be in Detroit, Houston, etc. The 6pm news in those markets is a lot of money versus Salem or the like. At least the Salem media cared... we shall see if the other cities care as well (probably will the first year based on the "newness," the next year and beyond is a wild guess).

- And to follow up the point, cities/towns/locations have to bid for these events with the NCAA. Just saying "Memphis" or "Nashville" doesn't mean the NCAA goes and looks at them. If no one there cares enough to put a bid together, it isn't suddenly going to get a visit from the NCAA.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

Ralph Turner

I actually believe that it snowed in Houston because the Astros won the World Series.   ;D

http://abc13.com/weather/snow-in-houston----it-happens-more-than-you-think/2753082/

+1! Dave for your post.

wally_wabash



Quote from: skunks_sidekick on December 11, 2017, 07:18:08 PM
Teamski...tell Wesley to put on their cold weather gear, watch Rocky IV or whichever movie that was when he was in Russia, and let's have a Wesley/Mount Stagg Bowl in Canton.  I know Wesleydad will be there, and he has an open invitation to stay at my place.

or whichever movie that was when he was in Russia??  I can't even right now. 
"Nothing in the world is more expensive than free."- The Deacon of HBO's The Wire

crufootball

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 11, 2017, 08:54:23 PM
Couple of comments per what I have read:

- Shenanoah's previous city manager and members of the City Council did know what they were getting involved in. However, the city manager left and three new members of the city council were voted onto the board this past May. Apparently, no one did their homework or got up to speed with the departing city manager before he left. That is their fault, yes, but it doesn't automatically mean they didn't know what was going on when they signed up for this opportunity. Those involved changed, for whatever reason, between the bid being accepted and the meetings this past fall.

- The weather conversation is like beating a dead horse. It snowed last week in the Houston area. Believe it or not, it could snow in Shenandoah if the conditions are right. The game is played outdoors unless you have enough money to have a dome. It is what it is. Not worth arguing for a better place for weather. If we were in Florida, you never know if the game would be swamped by non-stop rain.

- Canton has a new stadium coming that this game will be played as part of a whole complex. Let's not judge the event or the game before we get there. Not much about the place will be the same between now and then just as it isn't the same as it was two years ago there.

- Shenandoah does appear to care less than Salem, but we have also been spoiled. There are very few "Salems" in the NCAA let alone Division III. I would be happy to tell people more about how Salem was screwed by some individuals at the NCAA (not the entity, not the division as a whole)... over a few beers. Salem isn't going to come to the rescue if needed, bet on that. However, we are headed to Shenandoah unless something really goes sideways. Two years and we will move on.

- Attendance in Salem isn't too bad especially outside of the two teams involved. No one is expected sold out. I just don't think, especially in this day in age, it is an expectation to have. Salem did well. Shenandoah probably won't do as well. I can see Canton maybe doing well, but super high attendance numbers just aren't going to happen.

- The size of Detroit's market is not a factor in any way, shape, or form. If anything, it works against an event like this. The bigger the market, the more money it takes to advertise enough to get enough eyeballs on it interested. I worked in the 24th largest market in the country for 14 years... it was like pulling teeth just to get sports to cover DIII teams nationally ranked over DI teams who couldn't sniff a winning season. It isn't like attendance is through the roof at those locations, either. It is actually cheaper to spend money in Salem on media and advertising than it would be in Detroit, Houston, etc. The 6pm news in those markets is a lot of money versus Salem or the like. At least the Salem media cared... we shall see if the other cities care as well (probably will the first year based on the "newness," the next year and beyond is a wild guess).

- And to follow up the point, cities/towns/locations have to bid for these events with the NCAA. Just saying "Memphis" or "Nashville" doesn't mean the NCAA goes and looks at them. If no one there cares enough to put a bid together, it isn't suddenly going to get a visit from the NCAA.

Question for you Dave or anyone else that may have more historical knowledge than I do. I too have seen the comments that the people of Shenandoah don't care and that will clearly mean that the product will be sub standard. My question, do we know what the people of Salem thought 25 years ago? 25 years ago if the city council members of Shenandoah would have made the same comments none of us would have known. Clearly I know that Salem is more in D3 country so I am sure there was more buy in initially but that doesn't mean it wasn't a lot of work for them and didn't require a few years to earn the good will that is obviously this many years later.

I do have my doubts about the success of a Texas Stagg Bowl but I am confident that since UMHB is listed as a co-sponsor of the event we will not let it be a terrible event.


Bob.Gregg

I liked Bradenton.....

jknez---point of correction--W&J's trip to Salem (1994) was their SECOND Stagg Bowl.  First was in 1992 in Bradenton, FLA.
Been wrong before.  Will be wrong again.

jknezek

Quote from: Bob.Gregg on December 12, 2017, 08:56:07 AM
I liked Bradenton.....

jknez---point of correction--W&J's trip to Salem (1994) was their SECOND Stagg Bowl.  First was in 1992 in Bradenton, FLA.

My fault. I was doing it really fast using a cell phone to trigger back and forth from the history and attendance page to the board.

AO

Can someone give me a good reason why the athletes are going to like Houston/Canton less than Salem?  I'm sure the media/staff/admins are going to miss the Salem gift packs that they get in their hotel rooms.