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Division III basketball (Posting Up) => Women's Basketball => Region 7 women's basketball => Topic started by: MJA on February 24, 2005, 06:38:32 AM

Title: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: MJA on February 24, 2005, 06:38:32 AM
From what I know she was only used sparingly when needed.....very end of the game to hit those three's....she didn't play against AC...I agree with tniem, probably to save her for later in the tourney.
Title: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 25, 2005, 06:59:52 AM
An amazing performance by Kristen MacDonald last night, and a huge win for Calvin.  The strange part was that the two halves seemed like different games.  Clavin leads 21-18 at half, and then the teams score 50 and 53 points in the second half.  Hope couldn't buy a 3 point basket which really hurt.

The biggest surprise to me (this being only my 4th womens game this year) was how absolutely horrible the officiating was.   I have witnessed some really poor officiating in my life (including 3rd grade rec league) but nothing even close to this. This bordered on criminal.  In the first half they called a total of about 8 fouls - in the second half, something like 36.  And the fouls being called were so inconsistent.  Perfect example of their incosistency:

- A Hope player scores on a layup and goes down, grabbing her knee, and stuggling to get back up.  She eventualy gets up and hobbles down court - no interaction from the refs.  While she is hobbling down court, Calvin scores on a similar play, and the Calvin player is now hobbling - whistle to stop play.

I typically follow the mens games more closely - and I am known to let the officials know what I think.  I can tell you that I will be shaking the hand of every official we have on the mens side - because I have now seen how bad it could really be.
Title: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 25, 2005, 09:17:35 AM
A strange season. Hope beat Calvin twice; Calvin beat Albion twice; and Albion  beat Hope twice. At least, I think that's how it went.  

MacDonald  was ice cold in the first two  meetings with Hope, hitting on 2 of 23  field goal attempts.  But this night she got 40 points,  topping the MIAA previous tournament record of 34, and tying the Calvin record. In addition, she set the Calvin season mark for assists.

After a hard-fought first half that saw Calvin take a 21-18 lead with a three by MacDonald at the end, she added three more treys early in the second half to raise the lead to as much as 12. Hope battled back furiously, but would come no closer than four.

Add sudden-death playoffs to an already intense Calvin-Hope rivalry, mix in seniors possibly playing their last games, and you get quite a spectacle!
Title: MIAA
Post by: knightrider on February 25, 2005, 10:48:07 AM
Tniem- sorry i didn't get the post before the game I would have met you.  I was there.  I was actually doing the book for calvin at the table.  I probably stood out like a sore thumb with all the blue and orange around me with me being in gold, but oh well.  I will be at the guys game tonight if you want to meet there.

FDF- I will have to totally disagree with you about the referees.  I will give you that you have a lagitamate gripe about when bria was hurt and they didn't stop play and then holleman got hurt and they did, but lets remember that it is the trail referees decision to stop the play or not.  One official, the one following bria up the court decided that he couldn't stop the play, and the one following hollemans thought he could, so its a judgment call that one decided to make and the other didn't.

I thought the officiating was fine.  I thought they did a nice job.  They were a little more call happy in the second half, but they kept it even.  Lets also remember the time they called three fouls on calvin within 5 seconds of eachother.  I was doing the book and it was within 5 seconds of eachother.  Also, while doing the book, the hope book keeper and I were talking a lot and he seamed to think that yes somethings needed to be called more, but that overall it was a well officiated game.

In the end, no one is able to say that officiating affected the outcome.  MacDonald wasn't missing, hope didn't play defense on her ( which is to her credit for creating the space she needs to shoot) and calvin was very tough on the defensive end.  Overall, I think that the game could have gone either way, but Calvin happened to get a few tips and loose balls here and there with some amazing shooting from macdonald.

Just another great installment in the Hope/Calvin rivalry and i can't wait for the guys game and the women's championship on saturday
Title: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 25, 2005, 11:36:10 AM
Knightrider - I never said that the outcome of the game was decided by the refs.  I do totally disagree with you about the consistency in the calls - and I don't mean versus one team or the other.  The problem I had is that a foul during one part of the game should be a foul the entire game - they were totally in-consistent about that - and it was similar to a roller coaster ride.  That makes it very difficult for the players to play, as the officials are basically changing the rules.
Title: MIAA
Post by: wizard on February 25, 2005, 09:35:31 PM
FDF, have a nice summer!
Title: MIAA
Post by: tniem on February 25, 2005, 10:20:55 PM
Knight - sorry I wasn't on at all today.  Would have loved to meet you at the guy's game tonight.  Would have been the one bright spot for me.  Hope you enjoyed the last two nights.  Maybe at a baseball game this spring?

MacDonald played amazing last night.  She accounted for something like 2/3rds of your points.  That was just a great effort.  If she is able to do that every night, you can't lose.

I agree with FDF on the officiating, I thought Hope got away with murder (and vice versa to a degree) on the perimeter but there were a number of touch falls underneath.  But, you almost never lose because of the stripes, last night we lost because of a one-woman wrecking crew.  Tonight, a total team bombing expedition.  Hard to stomach but it happens.
Title: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 26, 2005, 05:09:53 PM
So who's got the scoop on the Calvin-Albion game? From the box score it looks like Calvin won 60-47, and Lisa Winkle had a huge game with 23 points and 12 rebounds, MacDonald with 19 points. The other most telling stat I can find is FG%, 44% for Calvin and 29% Albion. What's the story?
Title: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 26, 2005, 05:39:27 PM
A curious turn of events. Last year, third-place Albion beat first-place Calvin in the MIAA tourney title game. This year, third-place Calvin beat first-place Albion.  

Last year Albion lost in its first NCAA playoff game to Wilmington, 66-62. It would be great to see the Knights make a good run this year!
Title: MIAA
Post by: knightrider on February 27, 2005, 05:35:26 AM
Dark Knight

you want the story here it is.  Credit calvin's great defense for this win.  When you can hold ruth sventickis to 0 points when she tears hope up for 22 the week before, you know you are doing something right.  Calvin had a good lead, and the albion made a run, but then winkle caught fire and it was no turning back.  Albion played tough, but with the knights defense, there wasn't much you could do.  

To me you gotta give a lot of credit to calvin's post for playing so well.  Lisa winkle had 23 points and 12 boards, and sarah winkle had 8 boards.  Nan played well too, and all contributed to holding albion's post to little scoring inside.  

I think albion still has a good shot at getting in the tourney but with three losses to one team it may be tough.  well see tonight
Title: MIAA
Post by: d-mac on February 27, 2005, 05:32:52 PM
It is time to find out who is in... and who is out.
Whose bubble has been burst and who is wearing Cinderella's glass slippers.
It's Selection Sunday... and tonight there will be a special "Hoopsville" as the 2005 NCAA Men's and Women's Basketball Brackets are announced... LIVE on our air!
The Road to Salem and Virginia Beach officially starts tonight!


It plans to be a huge night... as 50 womens and 48 mens teams are officially invited to the dance and a chance at a national title.

Some teams already know they are going (thanks to winning their conferences) and some think they are going, but there are always surprises.

So tonight, we will break it all down. Starting at 8:30 PM EST, we will take a look at who is definitely in, who might make it, who will be disappointed, and what match-ups you might want to look forward to seeing later in the week.

Then at 10:00 PM EST... we will broadcast LIVE the Women's Selection Show so you can find out when we do... the 50 teams on the Road to Virginia Beach.

That will be followed by the Men's Selection Show at 10:30 PM EST - when 48 teams find out what their Road to Salem will be like.

After those selections... we will go over it with a fine-tooth comb and find out who we think are the surprises!

And throughout the show, we will hear from different regions with live reports and talk to coaches that have made surprising moves into the tournament.

Of course, you can listen in thank to Goucher College.
We suggest you try and use the low-bandwith signal which will require you to have Real Player and selection the 28K version of the show.
At the same time, you can listen to the Broadcastmonsters.com version, using Windows Media Player (go to the "Hoopsville" page for more information).

And you can share your opinions and questions with us, live on the air.
email - hoopsville@d3hoops.com  
AOL IM - Hoopsville2000

And for more information... check out the "Hoopsville" website (www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville)!

Again... it all starts tonight at 8:30 PM EST.
Title: MIAA
Post by: knightrider on February 27, 2005, 11:11:44 PM
I think the knights got a good draw and albion got a christmas present.  Calvin will host franklin on wednesday, and somehow albion gets a bye.  I don't understand that but whatever.  If someone can explain to me how a team can lose three times to one team in a year and still get placed ahead of that team in the seeding, id love to hear it.
Title: MIAA
Post by: tniem on February 28, 2005, 09:06:46 AM
It has to do with the teams the Regional Rankings.  I don't think the Knights were in without the Conf. win.  They were behind Hope and Albion in the rankings all winter.  I am not saying that is the right way to do things but it certainly seems that they use those Rankings to decide everything.  Same thing on the Men's side with Albion ahead of Calvin in the rankings by a lot (although on the court they were maybe only slightly better with two close wins and one close loss).  It should get better in the next couple years with the addition of more slots but even then, they will probably use these rankings too much.
Title: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 28, 2005, 09:52:36 AM
It's too bad that Hope didn't also get in. Hope, Calvin, and Albion seemed so close over the course of the year, and Calvin got by Hope only through a career performance by McDonald.

I'd guess Albion got in before Hope because Hope lost in the semifinals of the tournament, Albion in the finals. But Hope faced Calvin first only because of the MIAA's tiebreaker rules!

Does the number of teams in the tournament go up next year for the women's side also?
Title: MIAA
Post by: flavaflav on February 28, 2005, 12:32:42 PM
You are all forgetting that Albion has five wins over regionally ranked foes (Hope x2, Baldwin Wallace, Franklin, & Wash.& Jefferson) and their three D3 losses are all to regionally ranked opponents (Calvin x3).  Calvin also has 5 wins over regional opponents (Albion x3, Hope, Wheaton), but has a couple bad losses (Tri-State and Thomas More).  It is my belief that the selection committee had a tough choice between Calvin and Albion as to which would be higher rated but chose Albion based on the fact they have performed consistently better on the year.  
Dark Knight, you should not find it as a surprise to see Albion far ahead of Hope in the selection committee's eyes.  They have not had the quality wins Albion has, have losses where Albion does not (non-conference D3 - rockford) and lost both games head-to-head with Albion on the year.  It is obvious to MIAA followers that Hope, Albion, and Calvin are equals in so many ways and it is unfortunate that one of them could not get in- but Hope simply didn't perform against the teams it needed to on the year. Had Hope beaten Rockford earlier this year i believe we may have seen an unheard of three MIAA teams in the dance.  

Should be a great NCAA tourney. Calvin opens up with a winnable game against Franklin (whom Albion beat earlier this year) and Albion has a nice draw against the winner of a BW team they have already beaten and Denison.  If not for Depauw we would almost surely be seeing an MIAA in the quarters.
Title: MIAA
Post by: d-mac on March 01, 2005, 04:22:24 PM
It's time for the Big Dance... the teams are selected... the games are scheduled... and now 48 men's and 50 women's teams will take to the court this weekend with the same goal... a national title.
But who will win? The tournament previews are tonight on "Hoopsville"!!!


Sunday night we were live when the teams were selected and we found out who was in and out. The women's bracket was done relatively well... the men's bracket seems to be a bit of a disappointment.

But now we are looking ahead at the big games this weekend. From now on its win or go home.

One of those men's teams that is one of the hottest in the nation is #17 Gustavus Adulphus... who is riding an 18-game winning streak into the NCAA Tournament. The Gusties now will take on Lawrence on Thursday and could face the defending National Champs, UW-Stevens Point on Saturday. So, what might Mark Hanson be thinking. We will hear from him tonight and how his team has recovered from their 4-5 start to the season.

Now... the NCAA doesn't seed the Men's and Women's Brackets... but we will!
Tonight, live on the air, we will seed the men's and women's brackets according to how we see it and how we think the NCAA was thinking. So you can get an idea of who the NCAA thinks are the top teams and who might be hosting games in the Sweet 16 and Elite 8 (Regionals).

And there are new #1 teams in both the Men's and Women's Top-25 this week... but barely. UW-Stevens Point is just points ahead of Amherst on the men's side. And on the women's, it is just a point between Scranton and Bowdoin.

We will breakdown the final regular season Top-25 and try and figure out what the voters were thinking. Along with pointing out how not all of the Top-25 made the tournament.

And of course, we will have live regional reports from around the nation and take your questions and comments live on the air.

So come join us online and LIVE from 8PM - 10PM Eastern!

"Hoopsville": only place where you can listen or chat about Division III Basketball in the nation.

Go to the "Hoopsville" page for information on how you can listen in and chat with us live!
Title: MIAA
Post by: wizard on March 01, 2005, 08:19:03 PM
Albion still ranked ahead of Calvin.  Unbelievable when you consider that of Albion's 4 losses, three of them were to Calvin.  They weren't able to beat Calvin all year.

Go Knights!
Title: MIAA
Post by: goodknight on March 02, 2005, 08:30:25 PM
Final from the Calvin Fieldhouse
Calvin 74
Franklin 60

The Knights play Saturday at DePauw.
Title: MIAA
Post by: knightrider on March 02, 2005, 08:56:09 PM
An interesting game at the fieldhouse tonight.  I thought the knights could have played better than they did and it hurt to have lisa winkle out for a majority of the first half with foul trouble.  But calvin was able to pull away in the end.  Kudos to Lisa winkle on a strong game.  Kristen mcdonald played well again.  But I thought the game ball should go to Lisa Nanninga.  She played great all game on some tough posts inside and then added 10 points and had 10 rebounds to go with it.  Also props have to go out to Rita Owinga for her great defense on Lindsey Roberson.  Roberson has to be one of the best pure shooters in D3 women's basketball.  I'll compare her to Andy Draayer from the calvin guys team.  She still scored 20 points but I think we played good defense on her.

Bring on Depauw!!!  Go Knights!!
Title: MIAA
Post by: wizard on March 02, 2005, 10:03:43 PM
2 good teams.
3 lousy officials.
Almost makes me appreciate the officals we see on the men's circuit.
Title: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 02, 2005, 10:29:13 PM
I didn't realize it until today, but Massey does ratings for Women's basketball too: http://www.mratings.com/rate.php?lg=cbw#Div III

Calvin is #4, just like on the Men's side. Hope is #11, Albion is #18.

Massey predicted that Calvin would beat Franklin by 13 -- and they won by 14. The prediction for the game at DePauw is exactly even.
Title: MIAA
Post by: knightrider on March 02, 2005, 10:31:52 PM
wiz- I think it would be better to say 2 good teams and two lousy officials with one good one.  The female official at least called a consistant, following the rules game.  She had only one questionable call on mcdonald, the guys though were terrible.  The white haired guy was all over the place.  but oh well, a W is a W.
Title: MIAA
Post by: wizard on March 03, 2005, 07:53:36 AM
The woman was no better.  In fact, much worse.  She didn't know when to call a jump ball rather than a foul or a block rather than a charge.  She set gender equity back about 20 years in just a 40 minute span.
Title: MIAA
Post by: tniem on March 03, 2005, 10:06:40 AM
It has been my experience that in general the refs on the women's side are very inconsistent with charges/blocks and jump balls.  Most of the time jump balls should be fouls or are called way too fast when someone really had full possession.
Title: MIAA
Post by: wizard on March 03, 2005, 03:11:22 PM
All I know is they make Todd Geerlings look good, and that's bad.
Title: MIAA
Post by: Bob Mackenzie on March 03, 2005, 04:23:39 PM
I really think they mess up about as many calls as the men's refs.  They certainly had a few stinkers last night.  But the big difference is with the men's game being played at much greater speed, much more going on in the air, and much more athleticism, the bad calls often aren't nearly as obvious.
Title: MIAA
Post by: knightrider on March 07, 2005, 11:30:50 AM
WOW!!! what a game on Saturday.  I made it down for the calvin womens game in Greencastle IN v DePauw.  The knights started the game with a 13-0 run and we up that amount at half.  To no ones surprise im sure though depauw made a great come back but seemed to run out of gas with about 3 minutes to go.  Calvin went on a 12-0 run to end the game.  And now the lady knights get to host the sectionals.  An amazing season continues, but can the knights beat albion four times in one season??  We'll find out. GO KNIGHTS
Title: MIAA
Post by: Christopher Leverett on March 07, 2005, 11:41:58 PM
Here's hoping that the 4th time is the charm Friday night. Winkle and McDonald are two outstanding players. McDonald should have made the DIII hoops team of the week for her performances in the MIAA tourney. I just don't think Albion played up to their capabilities on that given Saturday. They looked like a totally different team vs. Dension. Also last time Sventickas took the o-fer and I don't think that will happen again:-)

GO BRITS
Title: MIAA
Post by: MJA on March 08, 2005, 07:41:25 AM
nice article.....  
http://www.freep.com/sports/college/miaa8e_20050308.htm
Title: MIAA
Post by: d-mac on March 08, 2005, 04:50:04 PM
Basketball in Division III at this time of year... is so SWEET!!!
32 teams still have a chance at two national titles... and many teams weren't expected to get this far.
Tonight, a preview of this weekend's Sweet 16 action and preparations for the Final Four... on "Hoopsville"!!!


Wooster, Wittenburg, and Illinois Wesleyan are out of the men's bracket!
So, who in the world is still left in the Men's Road to Salem?
Well... UW-Stevens Point, Amherst, and St. John Fisher.

Trinity (TX) is still alive. Most thought they would be playing IWU on Friday night, instead they face Hanover. Tonight, we will chat with Coach Pat Cunningham about his Tigers. Their road to the Final Four is going to be a tough one.

Then there is John Carrol, who defeated Wittenburg to earn their Sweet 16 berth. Coach Mike Moran seems to have his Blue Streaks team clicking on all the right cylinders, having won the OAC before their run in the NCAA's. We will chat with Coach Moran about his upcoming game against Albion... who got by on what some say is a questionable win over Wooster.

On the women's side, not too many upsets, even though DePauw and Buena Vista were eliminated on their Road to Virginia Beach.

Wesleyan continues to surprise as they took out Staten Island to earn their Sweet 16 game against Springfield. Coach Kate Mullen will join us live on the air to talk about how this season's finish isn't what the Cardinals planned on... and how they're looking to keep dancing.

George Fox will be earning a lot of frequent flyer miles this weekend. Coach Scott Rueck has his Bruins playing very good basketball and will take on St. Benedict, who upset Buena Vista. But how are the Bruins going to handle flying across the entire length of the nation for the game(s)... we will ask Coach Rueck.

And Salem is getting ready for their tenth Men's Final Four. ODAC Commissioner Brad Bankston will join us live on the air to let us know how the preparations are going. How you can get tickets! And what else you can expect and should do while in the great city of Salem (and Roanoke), Virginia.

Oh... and of course we will chat with our regional reporters - Gordon Mann will actually join us in studio. And we will certainly take your questions and comments on the air and try and cover a very busy week of basketball.

So come join us online and LIVE from 8PM - 10PM Eastern!

"Hoopsville": only place where you can listen or chat about Division III Basketball in the nation.

Check out the "Hoopsville" page for information on how you can listen... and be a part of the show.
Title: MIAA
Post by: ziggy on March 11, 2005, 10:17:27 PM
Congrats to the Knights for knocking off Albion for a fourth time and advancing to the elite 8!
Title: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 11, 2005, 10:24:58 PM
The knights pulled out a 64-56 win against Albion this evening, the fourth knight victory over the Britons this season. The Brits lost only one other game all year.

The knights got off to a fast start, led by 8 at the half, and increased the lead to 10 or 12 early in the second half. After that point, the Britons in a gritty performance inched back into the game, getting their first tie of the game with a couple of minutes left.  

The knights pulled it out with clutch free-throw shooting at the end of the game.  

Congratulations to the Britons on a great season, and congrats to the Knights on reaching the elite 8, after not being ranked almost the entire season!

It was a good crowd. The bottom-level bleachers were pretty well full and the staff had to open one of the top-level bleachers for excess fans.

The knights play Milliken tomorrow night at 7:00. Massey's latest rating has Milliken at #2 and Calvin at #3, so it should be a great game!
Title: MIAA
Post by: wizard on March 19, 2005, 09:14:29 PM
Milliken, the only team to defeat the Knights in their tournament run just won the national championship.  So, hold your heads high, Calvin.  Congratulations on a very remarkable season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on October 31, 2005, 04:46:20 PM
Congrats to the Hope women on their preseason ranking of 15th.  The upcoming MIAA/CCIW tournament at Calvin should be great, with Wheaton (11th), Hope (15th), Calvin (received some votes), and Carthage.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: knightrider on November 01, 2005, 02:21:53 PM
I am just courious if anyone can tell me what happened to Ruth Sventickas from albion.  i've been looking at their roster online and she isn't there.  It's kind of interesting if they loss one of their first team miaa players after her sophemore year. 
Calvin is looking good.  I'm excited for another year.  Should be close at the top.  Here's to a good season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 01, 2005, 03:41:31 PM
k-rider - I agree about Sventickas being a big loss for Albion.  She pretty much carried the team for while when Casky was hurt last year.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: knightrider on November 01, 2005, 07:07:01 PM
FDF- do you know where she went, or what happened to her?  I was told that if anyone would know other than the albion faithful that it would be the hope faithful, because everyone I talk to over here doesn't have a clue.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dropkick11 on November 02, 2005, 09:41:02 AM
Without Sventickas, what does Albion have..who will be there go to players.....and will it change there style...Is there going to be a repeat of their NCAA appearance last year? 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 03, 2005, 01:30:57 PM
I have no idea what happened to Sventikas - but would love to find out
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 05, 2005, 07:01:42 AM
2005-06 MIAA Pre-Season
Coaches' Women's Basketball Poll

1. Hope ( 8 ) 8
2. Albion 19
3. Calvin 21
4. Alma (1) 32
5. Olivet 37
6. Tri-State 47
7. Saint Mary's 51
8. Kalmazoo 53
9. Adrian 56
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: knightrider on November 07, 2005, 01:38:43 AM
found out sventicas just decided not to play this year.  She is still at albion, just not playing.  In my evaluation of their team, they don't have  much other than guard jaime fornetti, and she isn't a huge threat.  I think Alma will be tougher than Albion this year, but I think it is going to come down to Hope v Calvin once again.  Maybe its too early for that prediction, but I just think thats how its going to be.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 09, 2005, 08:26:03 AM
The annual Meet the Dutch is on Friday at the new DeVos arena.  First time for us to see the teams and the new arena.  Doors open at 5:30 - Womens team at 6, Men at 7
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on November 10, 2005, 07:43:48 PM
I hear Ruthie is doing an internship so she decided not to play.  I heard this from one of the girls that played on Albion's JV roster last year.  I think the britons will still be able to do fairly well.   And now with the field expanding, its possible there could be three teams out of the MIAA in the NCAA tournament!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: PCCoach on November 12, 2005, 08:47:05 PM
 ;D
What's going on at K?  Anyone have any info on the new coach or how they are going to be?  I say middle of the pack for the K women...new and positive sometimes can be good for at least 2-3 wins.  Go Lady Hornets!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on November 18, 2005, 08:17:44 AM
From the coach's preview, it sounds as though Calvin has one of its most inexperienced teams ever, and one of its most talented. Coach Ross is hoping for them to be playing well by the time the MIAA (and NCAA) tournament rolls around.

http://www.calvin.edu/sports/preview/winter.htm#wbasket

In their scrimmage with Grand Valley (which was a game from Grand Valley's perspective), 6'1" Marcia Harris was a freshman starter and the knights' second-leading scorer, with 10 of the knights' 48 points.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: PCCoach on November 21, 2005, 12:33:31 PM
 ???....nobody answered my question about K, but looks like they did on their own.  That was a tough UWRFalls team who quite frankly burried Finlandia friday night.  2-0 for the Lady Hornets!  Surprisingly, they did not have a problem scoring; in fact on friday night 6 players were in double digits (2 had double doubles); solid balance and d; also, they outrebounded one of the teams I think.  Way to go K.  Somethin brewin perhaps?  W'll see.....I think the league games, particularly the first round will be a tell tell sign.  How did everyone else do?...any special reports out there?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 21, 2005, 09:16:10 PM
Hope looked absolutely dominant in their game over Edgewood - a team picked to win their conference and get an NCAA bid this year.  I predict we will see both Hope teams in the tournament this year
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on November 22, 2005, 04:30:19 AM
I think Albion should be a force to be reckoned with.  They are now 2-0....and will be playing @ John Carroll Tuesday, and on Saturday Home against Goshen.  We'll see if they will continue to click.  They lost some key players from last year, but I am sure they will show their resiliency throughout the season.
Title: Hope's Schedule
Post by: tniem on November 22, 2005, 06:44:09 PM
In the past we have talked alot (especially in the men's forum but also in this one) about Hope's scheduling decisions.  I finally looked at the full schedule this year.  It appears that Morehouse was able to put together a tough test during the season this year that would help with the tournament seeding and positioning (if they get to that point).

- 6 out of 9 non-conference are in region.
- Wheaton is in the preseason top-25 (11th).
- 2 (Wilmington and Franklin) are also receiving votes. 
- 6 are neutral court games

All in all, it appears to be a bit more difficult and tournament number ready than the ones that I have seen in the past.  If I get a chance I will look at Calvin's and Albion's as well.  Would be interested to see if GVW was able to create a strong schedule as well with the opening of the fieldhouse.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on December 01, 2005, 07:24:44 PM
who is GVW?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 01, 2005, 10:17:02 PM
Glenn Van Wieren - mens BB coach at Hope
Title: 2005-2006 MIAA
Post by: Flea on December 04, 2005, 01:19:00 PM
Do the Calvin women move into the NCAA D3 top-20?
They beat Wheaton, the #7 team in the NCAA D3, the day after Wheaton beat Hope, the #11 team.

With #24 Albion (6-0) waiting in the wings.

The December 7 Dutch v. Albion match-up should do some sorting on the women's side.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on December 05, 2005, 07:21:21 AM
The Knights definitely ought to get some lovin' from the pollsters after defeating Wheaton, especially since they finished in the elite 8 last year, and coach Ross suggested that this year's team is one of the most talented ever.

True, they're very young, with only one junior and one senior on the team, but they showed they are getting it together in the Wheaton victory. The Thunder's terrific pressure defense forced 30 turnovers, but they forced 36 against #11 Hope the previous day. However, they couldn't sufficiently contain Calvin's post game, with pre-season All-American Lisa Winkle, future All-American Marcia Harris, and sis Sarah Winkle, who's just about as good as the other two but isn't called upon to score as much.

But the most impressive part is that the defense is apparently also getting its act together, holding Wheaton to 45 points, which is 22 less than their season average.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: PCCoach on December 05, 2005, 10:34:44 AM
BIGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG WEEK in the MIAA!!
Wed's schedule:
Adrian at Saint Mary's, 7:30 p.m.
Calvin at Kalamazoo, 8 p.m.
Hope at Albion, 7:30 p.m.
Alma at Aquinas, 7 p.m.

Saturday's Schedule:
Kalamazoo at Adrian, 3 p.m.
Saint Mary's at Alma, 3 p.m.
Tri-State at Hope, 5 p.m.
Spring Arbor at Olivet, 1 p.m.


KZOO gets its frist test in MIAA action under coach TSJ.  Hope and Albion have a showdown...Adrian and St. M's; then on Sat another test for the Lady Hornets.  Will be interesting to see what happens!!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 06, 2005, 03:23:55 PM
WOW!!! 3 MIAA teams in the top 25 - Hope at 16, Albion at 21, and Calvin at 24.   Add to that 2 mens teams in the top 10, and the league is looking pretty great!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on December 06, 2005, 04:07:25 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on December 06, 2005, 03:23:55 PM
WOW!!! 3 MIAA teams in the top 25 - Hope at 16, Albion at 21, and Calvin at 24.

Nice!

There are still lots of questions about the teams in the league, though. Albion is 6-0, but hasn't played any really tough teams. Hope has some lopsided wins and a 4-1 record, but the four victories are against weak teams, with a combined record of 4-16. Wednesday's Hope at Albion game will indeed be a big one. A solid victory by either team could drop the other one out of the top 25.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: MIdoubleA on December 07, 2005, 09:52:16 PM
Hope beats Albion in OT 82-78
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 07, 2005, 09:56:50 PM
Not only is this the first time Hope has beaten Albion since Dec of 2003, Albion was up by 18 in the 1st - lead by 16 at the half - as much as 18 in the second. Hope got it down to 3 with 7 or so minutes left, then Albion got it back to 10.  Bria Ebels banks in a 3 to put it into OT.  Hope outscored Albion 6-2 in OT for the win.   Huge boost for the Dutch, and proof that both teams belong in the top 25.
Title: 12/07/05 MIAA scores
Post by: Flea on December 07, 2005, 11:45:47 PM
Hope 82 over Albion 78 (OT)
Calvin 62 over Kalamazoo 39
St. Mary's 67 over Adrian 50
Aquinas 60 over Alma 45 (non-conference)

MIAA women's standings 12/07/05

Olivet 1-0
Hope 2-0
Calvin 2-0
Albion 1-1
St. Mary's 1-1
Kalamazoo 0-1
Alma 0-1
Tri-State 0-1
Adrian 0-2
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: MIdoubleA on December 08, 2005, 12:58:09 PM
Anyone happen to know why the women get into conference play before the men?  More tournaments on the mens side?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 08, 2005, 01:40:33 PM
I asked that question of Tom Renner last year and his response was that it's due to a larger number of teams (1 more).  The difficulty of scheduling gym use along with the men, made it necessary to start the league games early.

You would think that 1 more team wouldn't cause such havoc, but since that team has no mens team (St. Mary's - an all girl school) it really does cause problems - if you keep the schedule to 2 games per week.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on December 08, 2005, 04:33:28 PM
I listened to the last part of the Albion-Hope game on the net. Very exciting! Both teams sounded very determined. I do think that the MIAA has three deserving teams in the top 25, and it's gonig to be quite a battle.
Title: Calvin ranking
Post by: Flea on December 08, 2005, 08:37:49 PM
Why isn't Calvin higher than #24 after beating then #7, now #11 Wheaton (IL)?

Do any MIAA teams play any other top-25 teams this regular season?
Title: Re: Calvin ranking
Post by: MIdoubleA on December 09, 2005, 01:32:01 PM
Quote from: Flea Shooter on December 08, 2005, 08:37:49 PM
Why isn't Calvin higher than #24 after beating then #7, now #11 Wheaton (IL)?

The truth is that nobody truly understands the method or the madness that is d3hoops ratings. At best, it gives us somewhat of an idea of who is where, but nobody really knows for sure.
Title: Re: Calvin ranking
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 09, 2005, 02:02:05 PM
Quote from: MIdoubleA on December 09, 2005, 01:32:01 PM
Quote from: Flea Shooter on December 08, 2005, 08:37:49 PM
Why isn't Calvin higher than #24 after beating then #7, now #11 Wheaton (IL)?

The truth is that nobody truly understands the method or the madness that is d3hoops ratings. At best, it gives us somewhat of an idea of who is where, but nobody really knows for sure.

Especially this early in the season
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flea on December 14, 2005, 12:59:55 PM
recent poll rankings:

#14   . . . Hope   . . . 5-1

#19 . . . Calvin . . . 6-1   

#23   . . .    Albion . . . 6-1
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on December 17, 2005, 05:38:57 PM
Calvin defeated a weak Rochester (MI) team 71-32. The knights pushed it in to the post for the first part of the game and then seemed to work more on the perimeter game. They hit several threes, which they haven't been doing much so far this season.

Albion (6-2) lost to Spring Arbor (2-13) by 11 points -- ouch! A second straight loss, this time to a weak team. That can't be good for the rankings. The overtime loss to Hope must have them on their heels.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flea on December 22, 2005, 09:24:54 AM
Ironically . . . I can see the Lady Brits taking two of the four Hope / Calvin games but losing two more MIAA games in the bottom of the league.  Hope seems to have the upper hand this year with Calvin's inexperience resulting in dropping a few to the mid-MIAA teams.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 22, 2005, 01:31:43 PM
So how about 3 games into the conference season and Olivet is undefeated and Albion has 2 league losses - I doubt anyone predicted that
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on January 02, 2006, 11:35:02 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on December 22, 2005, 01:31:43 PM
So how about 3 games into the conference season and Olivet is undefeated and Albion has 2 league losses - I doubt anyone predicted that
It's weird because Albion beat some good teams in preseason competition - John Carroll and Anderson are well above .500 (Albion beat Anderson by 34).  But then again, Olivet only lost in the preseason to some tough competition.  Perhaps they will be up with Calvin and Hope this year and threaten to win the league...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 05, 2006, 09:26:11 PM
In a big game tonight with Calvin playing at Albion, Calvin won 51-50. Calvin led by 9 with 7 minutes left, but Albion went on an 11-1 run and made it a close finish.

Lisa Winkle had a huge game, with 15 points and 14 rebounds, 8 of them offensive, playing the last 15 minutes of the game with four fouls. In fact, Peuler, Harris, Winkle, and Winkle all ended up with four fouls while Marcuz fouled out for the Britons.

The knights benefitted from a 40-33 rebound advantage, but shooting 2 for 20 treys didn't help their cause any. But another game holding an opponent to their lowest point total of the season is good.
Title: MIAA
Post by: Flea on January 06, 2006, 02:04:59 AM
What was Albion thinking . . . sinking a last second two-pointer when down by three to end the game?

Did the shooter have her toe on the trey-line or was she clueless.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 06, 2006, 09:18:27 AM
See the play-by-play at http://www.albion.edu/sports/wbasketball/56wbkstats/w105caab.htm#GAME.PLY.

A Briton missed a three-pointer and another, Megan Garvey, got the rebound with less than a second showing on the game clock. Enough time for a layup but not for a pass out to a three-point shooter.
Title: MIAA
Post by: Flea on January 07, 2006, 11:18:18 AM
After a few MIAA games . . .

1.) Who are the top three or four newcomers in the league?

2.) Who is the top newcomer in the MIAA?


Adrian:
12   Kelley Hutchins . . . . . 5-04
33   Jenny Carlson  . . . . . . 6-00   
42   Michelle Zwolinski . . . . 5-09   
44   Holly Pellegrin  . . . . . . 5-10
50   Emily Czaplicki . . . . . . 5-10

Albion:
4     Autumn Charnley . . . . . . 5-05   
11   Stephani Croad . . . . . . . . 5-10
22   Megan Seely . . . . . . . . . . 5-05
24   Lia Cronenwett . . . . . . . . 6-00
34   Stacey Smith . . . . . . . . . 5-06

Alma:
10   Amy Seidl . . . . . . . . . . . 5-05   
12   Heather Keenan . . . . . . 5-07   
14   Jenny Falkenberg . . . . . 5-06   
30   Margaret Powers . . . . . . 5-06

Calvin:
11/14    Kristi Brummel . . . . . . 5-09
15/50    Sarah Partridge . . . . . 5-09
24         Jennifer DeFauw . . . . 5-11
32         Kelly Trewhella . . . . . . 5-08
34        Marcia Harris . . . . . . . . 6-01
44        Emily Schrotenboer . . . 6-00

Hope:
5    Kaitlyn Kopke . . . . 5-07
34    Courtney Knox . . . 6-02
44    Brieann Bryant . . . 5-11
45    Kate Reincke . . . . . 5-11

Kalamazoo:
12   Rachel Eddy . . . . . 5-08
24   Carmen Dorris . . . 5-07
32   Nicki White . . . . . . 6-00

Olivet:
no freshmen on roster

St. Mary's:
44    Nicole Beier . . . . . . 6-02
12    Meghan Conaty . . . 5-02
30    Calli Davison . . . . . 5-05
5      Emily Light . . . . . . . 5-06
42    Erin Newsom . . . . . 6-00
14    Katie Rashid . . . . . . 5-06
50    Ali  Bender . . . . . . . 5-09

Tri-State:
2    Kara Graham . . . 5-03
3    Rachel Grove . . . 5-06
42  Jamie Hiser . . . . 5-09

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 07, 2006, 05:22:42 PM
Top freshman per-game statistics:

Scoring:
  Marcia Harris (Calvin) 13.5
  Erin Newsom (SMC)     9.2

Rebounds:
  Erin Newsom (SMC)    5.9
  Marcia Harris (Calvin)  5.6

Field Goal %
  Marcia Harris (Calvin)  .509
  Erin Newsom (SMC)     .484

Assists:
  Megan Seely (Albion)  3.15
  Marcia Harris (Calvin)  2.82

Steals:
  Megan Seely (Albion)  1.38
  Kara Graham (TSU)    1.38

3-Pt %
  Megan Seely (Albion)    .419
  Kelly Trewhella (Calvin) .306

Blocks
  Jenny Carlson (Adrian) 1.33
  Erin Newsom (SMC)     1.08

Assist/Turnover ratio
  Megan Seely (Albion)    1.71

Looks like Marcia Harris and Erin Newsom stand out as inside players and Megan Seely as a guard.
Title: MIAA
Post by: Flea on January 07, 2006, 09:19:34 PM
January 07, 2006

Albion 78 defeats Tri-State 56

Alma 75 defeats Kalamazoo 55

Calvin 67 defeats Saint Mary's 62

Olivet 74 defeats Adrian 50
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flea on January 07, 2006, 09:26:04 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on January 07, 2006, 05:22:42 PM
Looks like Marcia Harris and Erin Newsom stand out as inside players and Megan Seely as a guard.

head-to-head . . .

## Player                   FG FGA FG FGA FT FTA OF DE TOT PF  TP    A TO BLK S MIN
34 Marcia Harris....... *  8   10   0  0     7  10   0   2   2    0   23    3   4   1   4   32
42 Erin Newsom....... *  1    5    0  0     2   2    1   5   6    5    4    0   4   0   1   20

BTW. excellent post Dark Knight
Title: MIAA pick 'em
Post by: Flea on January 15, 2006, 08:11:59 PM
Quote from: MeMyself on January 15, 2005, 05:19:26 pm
QuoteStephanie Smith broke, not only Olivet's school three point record, but the MIAA all time record, for most three's in a game. Stephanie sank 9 of 16 from behind the arc and was 11-18 in game. She helped Olivet beat Alma by scoring a career high 35 points

With this kind of play Calvin will be in trouble this week.  My picks for Wednesday's games:

January 18

Olivet over Calvin
Hope over Alma
Tri-State over Kalamazoo
Albion over Saint Mary's

home

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: MIdoubleA on January 16, 2006, 06:47:59 PM
Good article today in the Holland Sentinel about the lack of attendance at Hope Womens games. I can't link it because it requires a registered user, but go to www.thehollandsentinel.net and make a free account if you really want.

Is this the same for all of womens basketball?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 21, 2006, 11:18:04 PM
Tommorrows Sentinel article will be about the regular season record crowd of 1527 at DeVos to watch the ladies ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on January 24, 2006, 10:56:57 AM
Quote from: MIdoubleA on January 16, 2006, 06:47:59 PM
Good article today in the Holland Sentinel about the lack of attendance at Hope Womens games. I can't link it because it requires a registered user, but go to www.thehollandsentinel.net and make a free account if you really want.

Is this the same for all of womens basketball?

I reallly didn't find it that interesting of an article.  It is like they finally discovered that more people go to the men's game than the women's.  It is silly.  Compare to last year:

2005-062004-05
3154 opening night800  v. Calvin
1451 w/ men400 
825  425 
605  425 
505  350 
1355 w/ men250 
1525 alone v. Albion650 
400 
700 
75 
1100 season finale for champ.
350 
900  MIAA semis
Note: this isn't the best table.  Rows do not relate.  It is kind of just two lists side by side to compare.

As you can see, the numbers are up this year, even if you do not include the men's games.  I believe those double headers have built some extra interest (as have the new stadium).  Obviously, with a larger gym the crowds do not look as big.  But if you ignored the few seats in the Dow, you would have to admit there were not large crowds for a team that is always nationally ranked.

Actually, if you wanted to draw larger crowds in Holland you would charge for the games or at least sell season tickets.  Imagine if people had to buy season tickets for the women to be able to buy tickets for the men's games.  I guarantee you that if those older Dutch people had to own the tickets, they would be at the games.  Guaranteed.


And how it is at other schools, well, how quiet is this board v. the men's.  You have your answer.  And if you need more proof, here is the attendance averages men's v. women's for the league:

TeamWomen AvgMen Avg
Adrian157 475
Albion176 401
Alma147 238
Calvin306 1308
Hope1346 2895
Kalamazoo141 418
Olivet240 551
Saint Mary's106
Tri State71 114

As you can see, every school has more at the men's games, nearly double.  And all schools men's teams would do better with the Hope women's average attendance (of course that does not include the boost that Calvin will get for the Hope game or the bonus Hope gets on the women's side from double headers).  But I think the point is simple - Hope/Holland does a fairly good job of supporting the women.  People in general just are not as interested in their games. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on January 25, 2006, 09:53:58 PM
Olivet fell behind by 12 at halftime, before rallying to win by 4 in overtime.

Key performer of the night:  Olivet's Audrey Graham scored a career high 31 points in a Comet win.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on February 01, 2006, 05:56:12 AM
The discussion board for men's basketball is a lot more interactive than this one.  I have checked now for the past few days, and still no one has to decided to have some worthwhile discussion.  All I know is Hope seems like it is going to run away with the conference this year.  Calvin is doing well, dont get me wrong, but Hope has been simply dominant.  However, I feel that both Calvin and Hope should both be headed to the NCAA Tournament.   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flea on February 02, 2006, 12:26:48 AM
What has happened to Albion?  I saw them as a hard-nose team that would play physical against the Knights and Dutch. 
Title: Hope v. Adrian
Post by: tniem on February 02, 2006, 10:37:50 AM
Hope's 103-67 victory over Adrian last night was the first 100 point game in the MIAA this season.  The last time 100 points scored was last February when Tri-State beat Olivet 100-89. 

Meanwhile on the Men's side there has only been two 100 point games, Hope beating Andrews (103-46) and Alma beating Marygrove (103-79).  Something in the water with all of the 103 point games?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on February 02, 2006, 10:13:28 PM
Hope has the conference basically wrapped up.  I can see the Hope women's team hoisting the hardware come March.  Calvin has also been doing really well this season, but don't seem to be able to compete with the Flying Dutchmen.  I know there is a small portion of the season still remaining, but I say just give the MIAA Championship banner to Hope.  This year there hasnt been a single team that has been able to compete with them.  Though Calvin will probably end up getting a bid to the NCAA Tournament, but the favorite is Hope.  They are on a long winning streak, I dont see them getting another Loss.  This has to be one of the best Hope teams ever!  If only more of the Dutchies would go support their women's team.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on February 02, 2006, 10:19:20 PM
Albion, just basically fell apart this year.  The women's team looked to be heading to a 3rd NCAA Tournament, but that doesnt look to be the case. Coach Belkowski is basically building towards the future.  After losing several key players from last year, the team started out well and has just folded since the close losses against Hope, a come from behind victory for Hope in which they were down 20, and a one point loss against Calvin.  Since then they have been reeling down hill.  I was thinking a 20 win season was very much a possibility, now that basically has faded.  The only way the women can make a 3rd NCAA Tourney would be to win the MIAA Tournament.  I think the remaining games on their schedule look to be winnable games, and they should end the regular season on a 4 game winning streak heading into the MIAA Tourney, however, nothing has gone the way they would have hoped for. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 03, 2006, 09:04:48 AM
It was quite an exciting game between Albion and Calvin last Wednesday. With tough defense, Albion held Calvin scoreless for the first several minutes and went up 10-0. The Britons packed the paint and the knights had difficulty getting the ball inside. Add to that a dry spell from behind the arc for the knights and you see the difficulty.

In the first game between Calvin and Albion, Calvin won 51-50, surviving a 2-of-20 trey shooting night. That game must have looked like the first half of this game. At times the knights seemed so entirely open on the three-point line that they didn't dare take the shot.

In the second half, the knights were more successful getting the ball inside to Harris or Winkle, who could then score, draw a foul, or generally get the offense flowing better.

That #3 Briton (Fornetti) is speedy. Only Peuler could reliably stop her from dribble penetration. Peuler had a nice game all around.

The knights' 8 blocks and other alters made a big difference in the game. The Britons shot 50% from behind the arc but only 34% of 2-point attempts.

The knights ended up shooting 6/21 treys -- not as good as the last four games, but enough to win. In those four games they'd hit 40% of their attempts, almost double rate of earlier in the season.
Title: MIAA
Post by: Flea on February 03, 2006, 11:29:33 AM
Quote from: albinomascot19 on February 02, 2006, 10:13:28 PM
Calvin has also been doing really well this season, but don't seem to be able to compete with the Flying Dutchmen.

I agree.  Hope's post players pound and pound, and Calvin does not have the depth to stay with them.  If Harris or the battle-hardened Winkle get in foul trouble there is not much muscle coming off Calvin's bench.

Back on the 14th the Wood was tough, tough, tough off the bench . . . and that was at Knollcrest.  Seems as though if either team can shoot 40-45% from the field they'll win the rematch at DeVos on the 11th.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on February 04, 2006, 12:30:17 AM
Do any of you know who and when was the last MIAA Team crowned National Champions in Women's Basketball?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 04, 2006, 03:56:35 PM
Alma, 1992
http://www.d3hoops.com/archives/wncaa92.htm
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on February 04, 2006, 05:08:50 PM
Nice for the MIAA, as Hope won it 2 years earlier.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flea on February 05, 2006, 02:58:04 PM
Quote from: albinomascot19 on February 04, 2006, 12:30:17 AM
Do any of you know who and when was the last MIAA Team crowned National Champions in Women's Basketball?

MIAA in the NCAA history:

<http://www.miaa.org/wbb/wbbncaa.html>
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on February 07, 2006, 01:38:06 PM
It was nice on Saturday to have a women's game through the web/radio hook up.  Often with the men and women playing at the same time, they only broadcast the men's game.  Brian has the team playing very well.

For those that have seen them play this year, has Linda Ebbels developed into the inside presence that could take the team over the top (like Amanda Kerkstra did in the early 2000s)?  Is the team complete from the inside and outside?
Title: Hope/Rochester
Post by: tniem on February 07, 2006, 01:43:48 PM
Having listened to the Rochester game Saturday, I couldn't help but feel that I have seen the Dutch win against them a lot.  So I did a bit of digging and found that Hope and Rochester have played every year since 1998-99.  Only once (the 04-05 season) was that game outide of Holland.  Here are the results:

Season  Margin of Victory
1998-99  50
1999-00  46
2000-01  31
2001-02  63
2002-03  58
2003-04  39
2004-05  28
2005-06  48

Any way, not the strongest competition but lately it appears that Hope has been playing them in the later half of the season during one of the MIAA byes.  Probably a smart place to put this game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on February 10, 2006, 09:20:57 AM
Rochester is a rather weak team.  To even have Rochester in the same breath as Hope college is not right.  Rochester is one of the worst teams in the country, and they arent even in DIII!  This is Rochester College we're talking about in Rochester, Michigan, not Rochester (NY).  We all know Hope is dominating everyone.  Hope's women's team is remarkable on every facet of the game.  They are scoring at will, and also playing some intense defense, when they need it the most.  They arent out of any game.  Think back to the Albion game, when they faced a 2nd half deficit.  They are a resilient team.  I don't see any team stopping them.  I think its a banner year for Hope....National Champions in Springfield, MA!  Hope students really have been spoiled by the performances by the both basketball squads.  If only they would show some more support for their women's team ;D   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 11, 2006, 08:06:35 AM
Any thoughts on the other Hope/Calvin game?

Last time Hope won by 10, but Lisa Winkle got in early foul trouble and eventually fouled out. With reduced inside defenseon the part of the knights, Ellen Wood had a breakout game for Hope.

The knights scored only a pair of treys, but they've been getting more lately, so there may be less reliance on the post game at this point in the season.

If the knights can even up the rebounds and stay out of foul trouble, I think it'll be a good game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on February 11, 2006, 03:40:32 PM
As I would have thought Hope is cruising by Calvin 35-17 with 3:10 left in the 1st Half!  Ellen Wood with a game high 13 points
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on February 11, 2006, 03:53:20 PM
Halftime from Holland, Michigan  39 Hope College 28 Calvin College

Key Performers of the Half:

Hope-Ellen Wood with a game high 17 points

Calvin-Lisa Winkle 11 points

Calvin closes the half on a 16-5 run (last 5 mins).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on February 12, 2006, 05:03:10 PM
Yesterday's result from the Hope/Calvin game, just shows how dominant the Dutchies have been.  A regular season championship, and soon to be a conference tournament championship.  Nothing is stopping this women's team this year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: MIdoubleA on February 14, 2006, 12:07:05 PM
Quote from: albinomascot19 on February 12, 2006, 05:03:10 PM
Yesterday's result from the Hope/Calvin game, just shows how dominant the Dutchies have been.  A regular season championship, and soon to be a conference tournament championship.  Nothing is stopping this women's team this year.

*knocks on wood*

I hope you are right. It's about time one of the two bball teams does something in the post-season. I'd be just as happy for the women as I would be for the men. I think their season has been overlooked this year due to the men's transfers and what not.

By the way, when was the last time the mens and womens team had a combined record of 42-3?!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on February 14, 2006, 10:15:38 PM
I know it is very impressive.....the only time I can think of anything remotely close to that, was DI Uconn men's and women's teams winning national championships in the same year, and I am sure they had records that were comparable, but not quite this good.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on February 15, 2006, 02:03:46 PM
Mo has his team playing well, but their post season play under his tutelage has not produced what we Hope fans have desired. Is this the best Hope woman's team since '90? I would have to say they are as deep or deeper, but we all know that to win a national championship takes a little luck as well as anything else.

Are both final 4's played the same weekend? What a shame it would be if both the men and women were playing the same weekend 600 miles apart. But I guess that neither team will complain too much if that happens!  ;D

Good luck men and women!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: veragrace on February 15, 2006, 02:30:03 PM
I heard yesterday that the JV team is playing the alumni before the varsity play at 3pm.  Confirmed on the hope website, start time of 1pm.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 17, 2006, 12:15:59 AM
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on February 15, 2006, 02:03:46 PM
Is this the best Hope woman's team since '90? I would have to say they are as deep or deeper, but we all know that to win a national championship takes a little luck as well as anything else.


It didn't hurt that the 90 team never had to leave Holland.

As little women's ball as I've watched I'd say Hope's had several teams as good or better than the 90 team.  Just like the men, the GreatLakes Reagion is very strong.  They've run into some good teams in the tournament........and the MIAA doesn't help them much.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 17, 2006, 04:52:38 PM
Heard an amazing stat after the last game.  The seniors on this years Flying Dutch team are currently 100-10 in their careers!!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on February 18, 2006, 10:19:04 PM
That is a great stat.  Coach Morehouse has done a heck of a job at Hope College.  His teams just keep getting better and better.  This year Hope will probably be bringing a championship back to Holland.  I really want to know what Hope's weaknesses are, if any.  They are superb.  They play the game how it should be played.  They execute well on offense, and they play some stifling defense which throws their opponents off their game.  What a great accomplishment for the women to win the regular season championship, with a perfect record in conference play.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: veragrace on February 21, 2006, 01:59:36 PM
Does anyone have news on Jordyn Boles injury from Saturday's game?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: veragrace on February 21, 2006, 02:10:09 PM
http://www.hollandsentinel.com/stories/022106/localsports_20060221042.shtml

...answered my own question
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on February 21, 2006, 08:19:07 PM
Hope leads Kalamazoo 48-21 with 19:29 left in the 2nd half.  Its been all Hope.  I am not surprised either!   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on February 21, 2006, 08:22:07 PM
Hope is absolutely taking care of the Hornets tonight.  I wouldnt be surprised if they are able to get about 90 points, and theres enough time for that to happen.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on February 21, 2006, 08:54:59 PM
Final from Hollywood:  80 Hope 47 Kalamazoo.   Next up for Hope, the winner of Olivet/Albion.....Albion leads Olivet 52-51 with 6:21 left in 2nd half.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on February 21, 2006, 09:09:03 PM
Olivet looks like it has seized control of the game.  With a minute left Olivet leads Albion 61-58.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on February 21, 2006, 09:10:57 PM
Albion falls apart in the last few minutes of the game, as Olivet looks like it will come up with the win and will travel to meet Hope College.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on February 21, 2006, 09:15:27 PM
Final score from Albion, Michigan: 65 Olivet 58 Albion College.

Next up in Holland Michigan on Thursday....Hope College will host Olivet College Comets, slated for a 7:30pm tipoff.


Still no results available from the Alma/St. Mary's game, with the winner, traveling to take on the Calvin College Knights on Thursday.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on February 21, 2006, 09:19:19 PM
Following are tonight's finals:

80  Hope   47 Kalamazoo
75  Calvin  46 Adrian
49  Alma    46 St. Marys
65 Olivet    58 Albion

Thursday:  Olivet @ Hope
                  Alma  @ Calvin



Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: MIdoubleA on February 22, 2006, 12:02:34 AM
The Hope ladies are very good, and they will only continue to get better. Mo is an excellent coach and just like his men's team counterpart, he is turning out to be a great recruiter as well.

It's fun to watch the girls play too, something that cannot always be said of womens bball teams. Bria adds some serious speed to the dutch and Jordan is probably the best shooter currently in the basketball program at Hope (mens and womens).

I'm looking forward to catching a few of their tourney games @ Devos  :D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on February 22, 2006, 03:39:41 PM
This Hope team is better than any other team I have seen in my 5 years of watching DIII basketball as a student.  I made my prediction a long time ago, no one, will stop this team.  I think they have been the most dominant team in the nation thus far.  I think they are going to chalk up many more wins.  2nd national championship trophy for the women's team is heading to Holland, Michigan come March.  They have a high octane offense, that is just unreal.  They know how to rebound, they force turnovers, they can push the ball, and can definitely hit the trifecta.  Without a doubt, I think they are the most complete women's team in DIII....and I personally think it would be a disappointment if they don't win it all.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on February 23, 2006, 11:31:06 PM
Thursday's scores:

63 Calvin 52 Alma

78 Hope  51 Olivet

Next up:  Hope hosts rival Calvin in the MIAA Championship game slated for a 3pm start  Saturday at the Devos Fieldhouse. 

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on February 24, 2006, 05:54:40 AM
I have a dream that one day in the MIAA, women's sports will have much more attendance.  From the figures from the last Hope College contest, it shows that only 460 people were in attendance, which is a far outcry from the number of people that the Devos Fieldhouse can seat.  Come out and support the women's team at Hope College, which is ready to make a championship run.  Don't just be preoccupied with the men's team, but also give support to the women.  These women deserve it.  They give it their all each and every game.  It would be different, if a team wasn't good, but Hope's women are not only good, they are superb.  They are the complete package of what a team should be.  Where are the Dutchies hiding?  If I was a Hope alumni, I would make sure there were more people in the stands.  Can anyone imagine, the Devos only having 460 people at a game, for the men's team?  That wouldn't even be happening in a blizzard, people would find a way to get there.  If truly you want to see basketball at its finest people need to come out in numbers, and show their support for the team.  However for the people that do show up, I commend them.   Good luck to the ladies...may they continue to work hard, and have much more success!  :)
Title: MIAA
Post by: Flea on February 24, 2006, 12:29:00 PM
The comparison b/w the two genders' attendance is terrible. 

At Calvin, many of the "fans" are old folks, and they do not think women should be playing sports ... let alone watch them.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on February 25, 2006, 08:27:35 PM
Hey its not a bad hope.....for there to be more people at women's games... ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on February 26, 2006, 06:15:59 AM
I have a strong feeling that the committee is going to give Hope a #1 seed, and it would foolish for them not to.  They finished off a perfect conference schedule, and dominated in the conference tournament.  Now the next goal is winning it all.  Though they will be challenged by the nation's best teams, I think the ladies can do it. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on February 26, 2006, 07:28:05 AM
i to think hope can go all the way  maybe a double game sat with the men and the girls playing at home
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on February 27, 2006, 06:51:25 AM
I am very curious to see who the committee matches Hope up with. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: silent_observer on February 27, 2006, 09:07:03 AM
Looks like Hope gets Denison (22-8)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Tdog on February 27, 2006, 01:38:34 PM
It would have been nice if the women could have played at home.  They have quite a following, it just looks sparse in such a big place. :D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on February 27, 2006, 02:27:24 PM
To quote another post

"The reason the Hope women are traveling is due to NCAA policy.  When a school could potentially host both a mens' and womens' game, in even years the men are given priority, and in odd years the women are given priority.  This is to remove a potentially sticky decision from the host school.  The only hope for the women to be home was if the men were awarded one of the 5 byes, then the women could have hosted two games Friday and one each for the men and women on Saturday.  Once it became evident the men would not get a bye, this option was gone."

So, a weird policy screws the women out of a rightfully deserved home draw.  If this was an odd year, the men would get screwed as well.  Too bad for the women.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 28, 2006, 06:40:47 AM
Massey says:

Washington over Manchester by 27
Calvin vs. Carroll: toss-up
Washington over Calvin/Carroll by 19

Hope over Denison by 17
Capital over Franklin by 9
Hope over Capital by 5
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hopefan on February 28, 2006, 04:30:18 PM
here I am in St Louis, the one and only "hopefan"...

This weekend , having to stay in the area, I can't watch the Wash U men as they're done, can't watch the Maryville men as they're in Mississippi, can't watch the Maryville ladies as they're up at Wheaton  .....BUT, the Calvin ladies are right here at Wash U

the quandry  what do I do

Go to Wash U and root for Calvin
Go to Wash U and root against Calvin
Go home and find a variety of games on the internet.

tough decision......
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 28, 2006, 10:12:28 PM
Oh come on Scott, if you're a true Hope fan the decision is simple - either option 2 or 3.   ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Wydown Blvd. on March 01, 2006, 12:35:55 AM
or option one to have Hope  "be challenged by the nation's best teams" (in the words of albinomascot19). I would want to see the the Wash U./Hope matchup simply to give the tournament a chance to provide a theatre for a team to prove it is the best in the nation. Well, I am one for not wanting upsets I guess.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 01, 2006, 02:57:14 PM
Agreed - here's hoping we get to see that matchup
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: MIdoubleA on March 01, 2006, 05:59:03 PM
Quote from: albinomascot19 on February 24, 2006, 05:54:40 AM
I have a dream that one day in the MIAA, women's sports will have much more attendance.  From the figures from the last Hope College contest, it shows that only 460 people were in attendance, which is a far outcry from the number of people that the Devos Fieldhouse can seat.  Come out and support the women's team at Hope College, which is ready to make a championship run.  Don't just be preoccupied with the men's team, but also give support to the women.  These women deserve it.  They give it their all each and every game.  It would be different, if a team wasn't good, but Hope's women are not only good, they are superb.  They are the complete package of what a team should be.  Where are the Dutchies hiding?  If I was a Hope alumni, I would make sure there were more people in the stands.  Can anyone imagine, the Devos only having 460 people at a game, for the men's team?  That wouldn't even be happening in a blizzard, people would find a way to get there.  If truly you want to see basketball at its finest people need to come out in numbers, and show their support for the team.  However for the people that do show up, I commend them.   Good luck to the ladies...may they continue to work hard, and have much more success!  :)

Instead of comparing them to the mens team (which boasts best attendance percentage in D3) compare them to other womens teams and/or other mens teams (with the exception of Calvin).

I have been to quite a few of the Lady Dutch games and they seem to fluctuate in attendance. I've been to a game with 500 people and I've been to a game with 1500 people.

Besides, the Devos makes anything short of full look empty. (hopefully that made sense?)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 01, 2006, 09:48:51 PM
Congrats to Lisa Winkle for being named 2nd-team All American by ESPN magazine -- http://www.cosida.com/formpdfs/2006AAAWBBRelease%5B2%5D.pdf

Congrats to the whole team on reaching the NCAAs again this year, when the team has only two upperclassmen!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: knightrider on March 02, 2006, 01:03:22 AM
I'm a little upset with you FDF and Hopefan.  Now I am a Calvin Knight fan so I might be a little biased, but I know that no matter what the situation, when it comes to the NCAA tournament, the only time I will cheer against an MIAA team is if they are playing Calvin.  No matter if it is hope, albion, or any of the rest.  The MIAA has enough problems earning the respect of all division 3 schools and the NCAA tournament committee every year, when it is one of the toughest conferences in D3 hoops.  So if I had my choice sitting in a city and my only option was to go and watch an MIAA team play in the NCAA tourney, I'm sure I would end up going to that game and cheering the MIAA on.
That said... I think Calvin has a good chance to come out of St. Louis still in the tourney.  Hope has a tough road in their regional, but I hope they make it through.  Here's to all the MIAA teams, both men and women, lets hope someone from our league makes it to the final four, and continues to earn our league some much due respect.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on March 02, 2006, 05:33:37 AM
I bet it'd be a pretty wild reception in Holland if both the mens' and women's teams both can claim the hardware in Salem this year ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: devossed on March 02, 2006, 09:12:50 AM
Quote from: albinomascot19 on March 02, 2006, 05:33:37 AM
I bet it'd be a pretty wild reception in Holland if both the mens' and women's teams both can claim the hardware in Salem this year ;D

Wild Bill wouldn't know quite what to do...Neither would Arville.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 02, 2006, 10:43:23 AM
Quote from: knightrider on March 02, 2006, 01:03:22 AM
I'm a little upset with you FDF and Hopefan.  Now I am a Calvin Knight fan so I might be a little biased, but I know that no matter what the situation, when it comes to the NCAA tournament, the only time I will cheer against an MIAA team is if they are playing Calvin.  No matter if it is hope, albion, or any of the rest.  The MIAA has enough problems earning the respect of all division 3 schools and the NCAA tournament committee every year, when it is one of the toughest conferences in D3 hoops.  So if I had my choice sitting in a city and my only option was to go and watch an MIAA team play in the NCAA tourney, I'm sure I would end up going to that game and cheering the MIAA on.
That said... I think Calvin has a good chance to come out of St. Louis still in the tourney.  Hope has a tough road in their regional, but I hope they make it through.  Here's to all the MIAA teams, both men and women, lets hope someone from our league makes it to the final four, and continues to earn our league some much due respect.

...and the  ;D at the end didn't clue you into the fact that I was kidding??   As it happens, I saw all 3 games played at Albion last year in the NCAA tournament, despite having no team there playing.  I was a Calvin supporter against Miss, and an Albion supporter against John Carroll.  As for the last game - I'll just say I rooted for an MIAA team   :D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 02, 2006, 04:28:47 PM
Quote from: albinomascot19 on March 02, 2006, 05:33:37 AM
I bet it'd be a pretty wild reception in Holland if both the mens' and women's teams both can claim the hardware in Salem this year ;D

It would be an even more amazing considering the women's final isn't in Salem.   ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 03, 2006, 07:40:00 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on March 01, 2006, 09:48:51 PM
Congrats to the whole team on reaching the NCAAs again this year, when the team has only two upperclassmen!

Almost sounds like John Ross might have learned how to walk on water from KVS.  ;) :D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on March 03, 2006, 05:20:52 PM
Quote from: knightrider on March 02, 2006, 01:03:22 AM
That said... I think Calvin has a good chance to come out of St. Louis still in the tourney.  Hope has a tough road in their regional, but I hope they make it through.  Here's to all the MIAA teams, both men and women, lets hope someone from our league makes it to the final four, and continues to earn our league some much due respect.

I am not sure I agree with your post.  While Hope, in deed, has a tough road, Washington U. is nothing to look past.  I hope you are right with the Knights but if you are going to say one of the MIAA teams have a tough road this weekend, make sure you acknowledge how difficult both games will be for both teams.  I don't think either team got a very nice/easy road to the sectionals.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on March 03, 2006, 05:21:15 PM
Quote from: oldknight on March 03, 2006, 07:40:00 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on March 01, 2006, 09:48:51 PM
Congrats to the whole team on reaching the NCAAs again this year, when the team has only two upperclassmen!

Almost sounds like John Ross might have learned how to walk on water from KVS.  ;) :D

:D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on March 03, 2006, 06:43:35 PM
Hope advances to the second round with a 21 point win over Denison.  72-51.  They will play the winner of the Franklin-Capital tomorrow at Capital.

Any updates on the Calvin women's game?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on March 03, 2006, 07:42:25 PM
Unfortunately the Knights fell tonight.  One and done.  Hopefully Hope can represent the league well.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flea on March 03, 2006, 07:47:09 PM
Quote from: tniem on March 03, 2006, 06:43:35 PMHope advances to the second round with a 21 point win over Denison.

Now I hope the Flying Dutchwomen win the whole thing ... and I only sign psalms.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on March 03, 2006, 09:12:59 PM
Quote from: Flea Shooter on March 03, 2006, 07:47:09 PM
Quote from: tniem on March 03, 2006, 06:43:35 PMHope advances to the second round with a 21 point win over Denison.

Now I hope the Flying Dutchwomen win the whole thing ... and I only sign psalms.

Tomorrow they will face the regional host - Capital.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on March 04, 2006, 08:41:14 AM
Hey guys, one game at a time.....next up for the ladies...playing Capital at 8:30pm.  While on the men's side Calvin and Hope get ready for their 161 meeting between each other at the Devos Field House.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on March 04, 2006, 11:06:43 PM
Hope defeats the host Capital Crusaders or whatever they were.  I wonder if the Flying Dutch will get to host sectionals.  Probably not very likely but they deserved to this weekend but were screwed by the men.  Probably a road trip to DePauw...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on March 05, 2006, 02:20:35 AM
We need to talk about their fast start in the first half as they made 15 out of their first 21 shots, that is unbelievable.  The Hope women's team just ran away with the game from start to finish.  Also the men beat Calvin, which sends both teams to the Sweet Sixteen, what a great season it has been so far!  Lets see them both keep it going! 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on March 05, 2006, 02:21:25 AM
Hope College has one of the best record in the nation, there is no reason to why they shouldnt be able to host.  It is without question they deserve to host a sectional.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mark_reichert on March 06, 2006, 10:18:22 AM
Quote from: albinomascot19 on March 05, 2006, 02:21:25 AM
Hope College has one of the best record in the nation, there is no reason to why they shouldnt be able to host.  It is without question they deserve to host a sectional.

DePauw has a 2800 seat arena, how many can Hope seat?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Tdog on March 06, 2006, 12:20:04 PM
Couldn't agree with you more.  Hope women deserved to play a game at home, but DePauw is supposed to be more geographically located that Holland.  The DeVos seats 3500, so it could easily handle the crowd.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flea on March 06, 2006, 06:30:47 PM
Quote from: mark_reichert on March 06, 2006, 10:18:22 AM
DePauw has a 2800 seat arena, how many can Hope seat?

Do you think the games would draw more than 2,800?  Even though Hope seats more ... with their arerna and season they should host.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jagluski on March 06, 2006, 07:46:00 PM
Quote from: albinomascot19 on March 05, 2006, 02:21:25 AM
Hope College has one of the best record in the nation, there is no reason to why they shouldnt be able to host.  It is without question they deserve to host a sectional.

Without question...except for the fact that DePauw is centrally located and more importantly, a higher seed.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Wydown Blvd. on March 07, 2006, 10:10:39 AM
check the link for sectional complaints.

http://www.d3hoops.com/dailydose/?p=153#comments

it gave me some decent insight on how they pick.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on March 08, 2006, 03:38:30 PM
Without question Hope College is going to be faced with a tough task when they take on Washington University (MO) in their next game.  Hope has been pretty consistent all year on both ends of the floor, now they will have to come with the same effort and energy, and beat a very talented Bears team.  I am really pulling for the ladies, and hope they can get the job done!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: SKOT on March 09, 2006, 11:14:03 AM
this has to be the most difficult sectionals!

Hope (#6 in d3h.com poll)
vs
Washington (#3 w/ 2 fist place votes)

Depauw (#4 w/ 2 first place votes)
vs.
Wheaton IL (#14)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jagluski on March 09, 2006, 12:44:44 PM
Quote from: SKOT on March 09, 2006, 11:14:03 AM
this has to be the most difficult sectionals!

Hope (#6 in d3h.com poll)
vs
Washington (#3 w/ 2 fist place votes)

Depauw (#4 w/ 2 first place votes)
vs.
Wheaton IL (#14)

The most amazing thing to me is that you've got the two teams with the longest winning streaks in Division III and the only two teams to beat them in this sectional.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 09, 2006, 06:58:23 PM
D3hoopsNet, under contract from NCAAsports.com, will be broadcasting the entire DePauw sectional. Coverage starts a half-hour before tipoff and includes a preview of all four sectionals, plus in-game "live look-ins" at other sectionals in progress.

Gordon Mann on the call, with Wes Anderson joining for the sectional opener.

http://www.d3hoops.com/audio/
Title: Sweet Sixteen Update
Post by: tniem on March 10, 2006, 05:40:03 PM
Halftime, lots of scoring, Hope leads Washington 55-45.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jagluski on March 10, 2006, 07:03:21 PM
As a Wash U alum/fan, I just want to say that was a great game today.

I'll be cheering for Hope to go all the way.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: SKOT on March 10, 2006, 07:34:47 PM
congrats to the Flying Dutch on a big win over Washington U!  time to look foreward to tomorrow!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on March 11, 2006, 10:28:20 AM
When a team is winning there seem to be a lot of people that join the "bandwagon" so to speak.  I have been praising Hope Flying Dutch all year.  I also mentioned how it was going to be a challenge for the ladies to take on the Bears, and they really were up to the task.  I wish them continued success through the tournament.  An increasingly difficult matchup coming for the Flying Dutch, as they take the Depauw Tigers, in the sectional finals.  It should be a battle.  Congrats to the ladies.  I hope now more people will pay attention to this team, and they should after the men's team lost yesterday against the Wittenberg Tigers.  Looking forward to hearing the live play by play coverage.  Lets Go Hope!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope81 on March 11, 2006, 08:58:34 PM
Hope wins going away.  Final Four next week!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on March 11, 2006, 09:10:57 PM
Congrats to the Dutch.

Bria Ebels was saddled with two fouls early, but the rest of the team really responded. 

And kudos to the Hope faithful who travelled down from Holland.  Between them and the DePauw students, this was a fantastic environment.  One of the best I've seen for women's D3.

"Hope" to see you in Springfield, Mass next weekend.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 12, 2006, 01:58:47 AM
Quote from: gordonmann on March 11, 2006, 09:10:57 PM
Congrats to the Dutch.

Bria Ebels was saddled with two fouls early, but the rest of the team really responded. 

And kudos to the Hope faithful who travelled down from Holland.  Between them and the DePauw students, this was a fantastic environment.  One of the best I've seen for women's D3.

"Hope" to see you in Springfield, Mass next weekend.

Actually I think many of those people came over from Springfield OH after last night.   I heard many people makeing plans to do just that.

I'm sure Hope will be well represented in Mass.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 12, 2006, 08:34:50 AM
way  yo go hope girls see you next week in the final 4
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 12, 2006, 09:53:28 AM
The Flying Dutch were just amazing last night.  What a weekend, beat #3 in the nation on Friday, and #4 on their own floor on Saturday.  Now we get #2 on Friday, and potentially #1 on Saturday.  A Championship would have to be the ultimate streak of games, and I'm confident they can do it.  This team is so deep, and you can see it in their play - they know they can beat anybody.

The crowd last night was awesome - nearly as many Hope fans as DePauw.  The DaPauw crowd is an extremely rude bunch, and it's not just the students.  We were sitting near the daults/parents, and the language they used was disgusting.  Really makes you appreciate Hope fans.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 12, 2006, 03:41:19 PM
if any hope fans are going this week  i am wondering what motel you are staying in please we are leaving thur night   dtysse@chartermi.net
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mark_reichert on March 12, 2006, 05:37:56 PM
As a WashU fan, I can only root for Hope now, which would make four years out of five that WashU is knocked out by the National Champion before the final four.  Southern Maine and Scranton get endless trips to the final four while better teams are knocking each other out in the midwest.

It is particularly disappointing this year because this was the last shot for Manning, the greatest WashU player to not even get a trip to the Final Four.  Also Fischer, Rodgers and Fahey appear to be getting plaques AND I lived in Springfield for two years, but I can't rationalize the trip without the team being there playing.

So good luck and enjoy yourselves, because I'm not.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: DPU_radio_guy on March 12, 2006, 08:36:33 PM
While I'm rather biased, I'd like to comment on the DPU student section.

First, I have a hard time believing that was the first time you ever heard a BS call at a basketball game.  That happens at every level all the way up to the NBA.  I mean come on.  The student section at every D1 school (Duke excluded, which prefers "We Big to Differ") in the country uses that one.

Second, the administration did do something about the use of the F word.  There was a mandate laid down by DPU Police in the first half that anybody (or everybody if necessary) that used the F word would be ejected.  To my knowledge, nobody was ejected, but the F word wasn't present in the second half either.  I heard it in the first half, and the administration stopped it.

I also apparently completely blanked the "whore" incident. Everyone I've spoken to who was at the game (including the "leader" of the student section itself) has no recollection of your allegation, either. 

I've been on the road with DePauw men's and women's teams, and several of them (particularly in some non-conference games, mostly not within the SCAC) were way worse than anything I heard at the Neal Fieldhouse on Friday or Saturday.  That's not a defense, but go play at Wabash or at Centre one night.  You'll never want to go that place ever again.  Obviously your women can't play Wabash, but what you saw was a walk in the park compared to that outing this year. 


Say what you will, apparently those of us here in Greencastle don't show the same high moral values that you'll find at the DeVos Fieldhouse.  No way a couple thousand college students would EVER do anything immoral. 
Title: Moving post
Post by: dren on March 12, 2006, 09:11:46 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 12, 2006, 08:15:22 PM
Re: the behavior of DePauw 'fans':

If the situation was as reported (and I have no reason to doubt that it was), one obvious consequence is that DePauw should never even be CONSIDERED for hosting tournament games again until such time as they can give enforceable guantantees that such behavior will NOT be repeated (and if it is, that the offenders will be immediately ejected from the premises).

Both the BS and 'xxx sucks' chants have, deplorably, become so common that they seem to be tacitly legitimized, but I had never previously heard of 'whore' directed at officials or (according to at least one post) opposing players.  That is beyond despicable.  And I agree with the post that the even worse thing was that no DePauw officials did anything about it.  What the hell sort of a 'teaching institution' are they running down there in Greencastle?!

I worked all afternoon on my email to the Hope Pres, Hope AD, Depauw Pres, Depauw AD, MIAA commish, SCAC commish, NCAA D3 womens GL rep, and NCAA D3 Commissioner on Sportsmanship and Ethical Conduct.  I'm sure I'll get some replies tomorrow.  I was sure to stress that in wasn't the fans that struck me as terrible... it was the lack of authority at the game.  I was also sure to stress that the Depauw players and coaches played very tough and had nothing to do with the actions of the Depauw fans.

Again... I encourage everyone to send a quick email down that list.  One complaint isn't much, but just 4 or 5 can raise some attention to the problem. 


David L. Neilson, MIAA Commissioner: miaacommish@ameritech.net
Ray Smith, Hope College AD: resmith@hope.edu
James E. Bultman, Hope College president: bultmanj@hope.edu
Steve Argo, SCAC Commissioner: sargo@scac-online.org
Robert G. Bottoms, Depauw President:   bbottoms@depauw.edu
Page Cotton,  Depauw AD:    pagecotton@depauw.edu
Rosalyn Fornari, Division III Women's Basketball Committee Great Lakes Rep (head coach at PSU Behrend College):  rxf16@psu.edu
Chuck Mitrano, Committee on Sportsmanship and Ethical Conduct DIII Commissioner cmitrano@Empire8.com
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dren on March 12, 2006, 09:31:41 PM
Quote from: DPU_radio_guy on March 12, 2006, 08:36:33 PM
While I'm rather biased, I'd like to comment on the DPU student section.

First, I have a hard time believing that was the first time you ever heard a BS call at a basketball game.  That happens at every level all the way up to the NBA.  I mean come on.  The student section at every D1 school (Duke excluded, which prefers "We Big to Differ") in the country uses that one.

Second, the administration did do something about the use of the F word.  There was a mandate laid down by DPU Police in the first half that anybody (or everybody if necessary) that used the F word would be ejected.  To my knowledge, nobody was ejected, but the F word wasn't present in the second half either.  I heard it in the first half, and the administration stopped it.

I also apparently completely blanked the "whore" incident. Everyone I've spoken to who was at the game (including the "leader" of the student section itself) has no recollection of your allegation, either. 

I've been on the road with DePauw men's and women's teams, and several of them (particularly in some non-conference games, mostly not within the SCAC) were way worse than anything I heard at the Neal Fieldhouse on Friday or Saturday.  That's not a defense, but go play at Wabash or at Centre one night.  You'll never want to go that place ever again.  Obviously your women can't play Wabash, but what you saw was a walk in the park compared to that outing this year. 


Say what you will, apparently those of us here in Greencastle don't show the same high moral values that you'll find at the DeVos Fieldhouse.  No way a couple thousand college students would EVER do anything immoral. 

Great defense... "but everyone else is doing it, that means it is accpetable.." or "were not as bad as insert team name here, they are really bad!!"

QuoteSay what you will, apparently those of us here in Greencastle don't show the same high moral values that you'll find at the DeVos Fieldhouse.  No way a couple thousand college students would EVER do anything immoral. 

That pretty much sums up my point... you are hosting an NCAA Championship event.  What kind of image are you trying to portray as Depauw University students?  Really you guys are no diffenent than any other school... but if you want everyone to remember Depauw as just another Break.com University thats up to you...
Title: Re: Let's Talk MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 12, 2006, 10:37:30 PM
Quote from: sGo Hope on March 12, 2006, 09:11:46 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 12, 2006, 08:15:22 PM
Re: the behavior of DePauw 'fans':

If the situation was as reported (and I have no reason to doubt that it was), one obvious consequence is that DePauw should never even be CONSIDERED for hosting tournament games again until such time as they can give enforceable guantantees that such behavior will NOT be repeated (and if it is, that the offenders will be immediately ejected from the premises).

Both the BS and 'xxx sucks' chants have, deplorably, become so common that they seem to be tacitly legitimized, but I had never previously heard of 'whore' directed at officials or (according to at least one post) opposing players.  That is beyond despicable.  And I agree with the post that the even worse thing was that no DePauw officials did anything about it.  What the hell sort of a 'teaching institution' are they running down there in Greencastle?!

I worked all afternoon on my email to the Hope Pres, Hope AD, Depauw Pres, Depauw AD, MIAA commish, SCAC commish, NCAA D3 womens GL rep, and NCAA D3 Commissioner on Sportsmanship and Ethical Conduct.  I'm sure I'll get some replies tomorrow.  I was sure to stress that in wasn't the fans that struck me as terrible... it was the lack of authority at the game.  I was also sure to stress that the Depauw players and coaches played very tough and had nothing to do with the actions of the Depauw fans.

Again... I encourage everyone to send a quick email down that list.  One complaint isn't much, but just 4 or 5 can raise some attention to the problem. 


David L. Neilson, MIAA Commissioner: miaacommish@ameritech.net
Ray Smith, Hope College AD: resmith@hope.edu
James E. Bultman, Hope College president: bultmanj@hope.edu
Steve Argo, SCAC Commissioner: sargo@scac-online.org
Robert G. Bottoms, Depauw President:   bbottoms@depauw.edu
Page Cotton,  Depauw AD:    pagecotton@depauw.edu
Rosalyn Fornari, Division III Women's Basketball Committee Great Lakes Rep (head coach at PSU Behrend College):  rxf16@psu.edu
Chuck Mitrano, Committee on Sportsmanship and Ethical Conduct DIII Commissioner cmitrano@Empire8.com


Sent my description of it off this afternoon - most appalling to me was the adults/parents who eventually were swearing at their own team
Title: Re: Let's Talk MIAA
Post by: AndersDY on March 12, 2006, 10:46:30 PM
Quote from: sGo Hope on March 12, 2006, 09:11:46 PM
I was also sure to stress that the Depauw players and coaches played very tough and had nothing to do with the actions of the Depauw fans.

No blame belongs to the team, but I wonder if their style of play gave the fans reason to ride the refs more throughout the year. The DePauw girls appeared to push off, at least lightly, quite regularly and played a very out-of-control offensive foul prone style. Particularly #11 seemed to just throw her body around hoping to get a foul called on the defense. I think Bria actually got her second foul because of that tactic before the officials picked up that #11 was just going to sling herself all over the place waiting to get contact called in her favor. This is just a style thing and I didn't see anything actually classless by the DePauw players, but I could picture some games where officials were willing to call a lot of these things against DePauw earlier in the year and the crowd decided the officials were going to be the enemy every night. That doesn't explain the need to attack any visiting opponent though and certainly doesn't put the players at fault, but I wonder if the fans decided because their team plays in a tough style, that they should try to be as "tough" (as if that disgusting display was tough) as they could be in the stands as well.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on March 13, 2006, 07:13:43 AM
DPU, et. al,

Does DePauw fans show up in those numbers for all women's games?  Do you have a female student section all season?  Or is this you guys moving over after the men's season?  Likewise, the other schools in your conference (Wabash is a men's only school), are you refering to their Men's teams or Women's teams?  And yes it does matter or at least it might explain some of sGo's feelings.


So the trip to Mass. this weekend...  Quite a drive from DC, who thinks I should go?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on March 13, 2006, 07:25:20 AM
Quote from: tniem on March 13, 2006, 07:13:43 AM
Does DePauw fans show up in those numbers for all women's games?  Do you have a female student section all season?  Or is this you guys moving over after the men's season?  Likewise, the other schools in your conference (Wabash is a men's only school), are you refering to their Men's teams or Women's teams?  And yes it does matter or at least it might explain some of sGo's feelings.

OK, question asked, answer answered.  Appears your highest attendance for women's games this season was 825 (Rose-Holman, they had over a thousand at their home game so I assume they our your rival or they are close by in terms of miles and both team's fans can show up).  Beyond that it was 325.  So it sounds like this is your men's student section moving over to the women's side where there is a different decorum.  IMO, even at a men's game, BS is a classless chant.  It has nothing to do with morals.  And do not even get me started on wh---.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 13, 2006, 08:50:17 AM
Quote from: tniem on March 13, 2006, 07:13:43 AM
DPU, et. al,

Does DePauw fans show up in those numbers for all women's games?  Do you have a female student section all season?  Or is this you guys moving over after the men's season?  Likewise, the other schools in your conference (Wabash is a men's only school), are you refering to their Men's teams or Women's teams?  And yes it does matter or at least it might explain some of sGo's feelings.


So the trip to Mass. this weekend...  Quite a drive from DC, who thinks I should go?

CM and I will be there, and expect to see you   ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Josh Bowerman on March 13, 2006, 11:16:49 AM
Greetings, Hope fans!  Congratulations on your women's team advancing to the Final Four this weekend in Springfield.  I hope that your ladies play well and wish them good luck.

I'll be photographing the game for d3hoops.com, and would encourage you to check out the photo galleries each night after the games.  And, please stop by and say "hi" during the timeouts--it would be nice to make your acquaintance.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on March 13, 2006, 11:38:03 AM
All I have to say is now people are finally giving the ladies team props.....while I have been saying it all along....I think this team is totally incredible.....Hope College should be able to get by Scranton, and with a possible championship matchup with Southern Maine.  The Hope Flying Dutch have really represented the MIAA well, and now two wins away from a 2nd National championship since 1990.  I bet if the men's team were still in it, Hope Flying Dutch would still be getting no respect whatsoever.  I am happy that everyone can focus on the ultimate team.  I really believe if they continue to play the way they have all season,they should holding the hardware in the end. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on March 13, 2006, 11:40:33 AM
Josh: Nice to know that you are the photographer.  Yeah, I will definitely check out the pictures.  I am looking forward to a well played game this weekend.  Lets Go Hope!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dren on March 14, 2006, 11:35:34 AM
Appartently my thoughts on Depauw are not unfounded...

Quote from: gohope on March 14, 2006, 10:46:18 AM
I too was at the DePauw game.  We made the roadtrip from Ohio to Indiana!  During the game I noticed that there was a gentleman in a suit with his wife (I assumed) sitting at the end of our row in the HOPE section. During one of the infamous DePauw student section cheers, I turned to him and asked if he was the DU President.  He affirmed.  I then asked if he condoned this type of cheering.  He looked at me, with a baffled look, and said, "What cheers?"  I then pointed to the DU student section, and said, "That cheer, don't you hear it?"  He then said, "I don't hear anything."  But... his eyes really said it all.  He heard it.  But did NOTHING.  My letter will be written, but in a few days!


Quote from: Civic Minded on March 12, 2006, 04:03:30 PM
Hmmm....Let me start by agreeing with sGo Hope, and add that I was sitting next to the adult DePauw section (or one of them, anyway), and they were about as bad.  Loud, obnoxious, just plain scary.  When yelling obscenities at the refs over every step wasn't working, when calling some of our girls "dirty players" didn't work, they started swearing at their own players.  As you all know, that didn't help either!   ;)  It really was disgusting.

As to something being done -- there was a little bit done.  Someone from Hope in a position of authority, after several choruses of "Hope s#cks" and the other disgusting outbursts spoke to the NCAA rep and the AD for DePauw about it.  The choruses of "Hope s#cks" did stop, but not the other stuff, as best as I could tell.  It was an embarassment for DePauw -- why would a school put up with that at an event of this caliber???   ???

Quote from: andersdy on March 12, 2006, 08:56:00 PM
For any extra fuel needed against DePauw, one of the Dew Crew members down front commented that one of the costumed DePauw students looked like the Fonz and learned that this made him a "f--got." That was just one student though, which is nearly impossible to control, but the fact that similar venom became organized and consistent is the reason that the NCAA should seriously consider advising DePauw as to why home tournament games won't be played there any time soon.

Quote from: realist on March 13, 2006, 04:57:58 PM
Just spoke with a person who has a family member that goes to De Pauw.  They attended the game a week ago De Pauw/Marysville, and he commented the behavior on the part of De P students was worse than anything he has seen MIAA, Big 10, GLAIC etc. etc.  Language was terrible, and students started chanting for Marysville to leave at the half.  DP was up 17 at the time.
This person sat right behind the De Pauw President.  He indicated the President left at halftime, and walked right by the student section, and didn't say a thing.  To me this indicates that administration condones classless, and unsportmans like behavior.
He (my acquaintance) is sorry now he didn't say something to the President, but thought he would do it when the guy came back after the half, but the Pres. left the building.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 14, 2006, 12:27:41 PM
I sent an e-mail to the NCAA and Depawu "officials" late Sunday.  I doubt I will hear back, even though I asked for a response.

Got our tickets today - sounds like Hope will have a good following. 

Go HOPE
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: monsoon on March 14, 2006, 03:08:00 PM
FDF (and everyone else travelling) - have a safe trip and a good time in Springfield; hopefully the Mass. version will be kinder to our women than the Ohio version was to our men!

Wish I could make the trip - esp. after what I saw from them Saturday...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 14, 2006, 03:19:49 PM
I wrote to the NCAA and DePauw on Sunday night, and just received this reply.  It sounds to me like they are genuinely concerned and I expect we'll be hearing more.

I apologize for the delay but thanks so much for the note. I chair the DIII Commissioners Associations Sportsmanship and Ethical Conduct Committee and serve on the NCAAs national committee. I can also say the commissioners of these respective institutions are top notch people and will also address the matter. I'll be sure to get this to the right people to address. Thanks for bringing this forward to be addressed and for your genuine concern of the integrity of our contests.

Kindest Regards,

Chuck Mitrano
Empire 8 Commissioner

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: knights2000 on March 14, 2006, 05:42:31 PM
Congratulations to Lisa Winkle, 1st team all region. Also, Bria Ebels, 2nd team all region. Brian Morehouse, coach of the year. Once again, congratulations to all.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hornetiger on March 14, 2006, 06:27:15 PM
I was at the game Saturday night, relatively close to the student seciton (I was in the pep band).  I don't recall ever hearing the "whore" chant.  It's not like the Hope student section were angels.  They said some stuff akin to the DePauw student section but it was usually drowned out. Some of the adult Hope fans also said some not so nice things during the first half directly addressing the refs and saying things that can't be repeated here.   I'm not saying this is the norm for the Hope fans; the clear majority of them were very nice and courteous, even nice enough to clap for the pep band after the game...we usually don't get applause like that.

From my observations it seemed like the main function of the police and security near the DePauw student section was to keep from overflow...there were several DePauw students turned away from the student section because it was full. Also,

I'm sure that if anything at the game was as bad as others indicated the NCAA representative sitting at the scorers' table would have done something.

I get the feeling that if this game was held at Hope some of the same things may have been heard from the Hope student section.

As far as attendance numbers go, there's some things to keep in mind. One, the SCAC works on a Friday-Sunday conference game rotation. The womens' games are most always before the men, starting at 6 o'clock which conflicts directly with the time most fraternities and sororities serve dinner (DePauw is 75% greek, so it makes a large difference).  Also, the Sunday games are in the afternoon when most students are doing homework / sleeping in / what have you. Also, Hope has a good 900 more students than DePauw as well. 

That being said, good luck to Hope in the Final 4 and DePauw can definitely start looking forward to next year as only of the Tigers' top 11 players graduates, and Liz Bondi still has one year of NCAA eligibility left.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 14, 2006, 07:28:42 PM
Quote from: hornetiger on March 14, 2006, 06:27:15 PM


I get the feeling that if this game was held at Hope some of the same things may have been heard from the Hope student section.


Not a chance... You are dead wrong here... While the occasional slip may happen at Hope, I guarantee that the AD and President would nip it in the bud. I really doubt you heard anything as bad from the Hope fans as has been mentioned here about the DePauw. You should be embarrassed and coming to this site to grovel, rather that passing the buck and defending your school...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 14, 2006, 07:42:17 PM
yeah hope sold all there tickets today 250  and maybe 2 charter buses going to
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Cowboy J on March 15, 2006, 12:45:01 AM
I have been reading the many comments made by Hope fans after DePauw's hosting of the Great Lakes/Central Region Sectional this past weekend, and decided it was high time that I saddle up and offer a few observations of my own. Especially after 'NW Hope Fan' just tore apart 'hornetiger' ... who was about as complimentary of Hope people as a non-Hope person could be, and who is a first-time poster on this board. What, if it's not entirely pro-Hope, you don't want to hear it? Come on. Let's just say I don't think it's hornetiger who should be embarrassed.

Before the weekend, I simply knew of Hope as a christian school in Michigan. Being a traveler, and enjoying women's basketball, I have also had occasion to watch the Hope women play. When I saw the sectional bracket, I knew three very good teams would be knocked out, with only one advancing to Springfield, Mass. After the weekend, however, I know and have learned a lot more.

Having been at the weekend games, I must say that I am most surprised at the reaction and the constant attention given the DePauw fans ... by Hope fans. People must be scratching their heads, especially those who are used to DePauw's usual 200-or-so fans at the Lilly Center. Other people might be horrified at what they have read. To all I will simply say, relax. The Hope fans are probably accurate in some of their recounting, but important details are being left out, and some stuff is just way blown out of proportion. It's also amusing to read some of the information that is being presented as fact, when they have "known" DePauw for a game, or maybe two. Absurd.

While some people told me the chants of "Bull****" did involve a large part of the student section, the comments of "whore" were heard by some, but they came from a sprinkling of students, at best. (Not the impression one poster gave, for sure, which is an important detail to omit. One or two or five is not the entire student section chanting.) And, the police officers and the DePauw administration and the NCAA rep did nothing? Tell that to the people who received a stern talking to, or who were kicked out of the gym, in a couple of cases, or to the ones who had noise makers and other items taken away from them. And, the DePauw parents swearing at their own players? You're making a group of great people sound like a bunch of hoodlums. And lay off President Bottoms, too. He's a good man who's appreciated around here.  

And to 'andersdy' who posted something about DePauw's "tough style" which might have made the crowd more "tough" and the team using an "out-of-control, offensive foul prone style of play" with DePauw's #11 "throwing her body around"... Don't come up with some loose relationship between team and fans, and a scouting report on the Tigers and #11, after seeing them for one game, or on one weekend. That is completely ridiculous. As for the DePauw players "pushing off, at least lightly," I might agree with the lightly part, if anything. You make the Tigers out to be the devil, and your Flying Dutch, the saints. Oh, okay. I have seen enough of the DePauw women's basketball team to know that they are a gem of a group, led by a truly classy coach, and they're as within-the-rules as anybody. So, you'd be wise not to go there. As for the complaining about Bria Ebels getting her second foul, early in the game, when #11 was "throwing her body around," I can bet it wasn't #11's intent. But, as stated earlier, I have had occasion to watch Hope play, and although immensely talented, Bria Ebels is a flopper. I've seen it a number of times. Case in point: end of the first half against Wash U. Sure, the Wash U player had no business being that close, but Bria put an exclamation point on her fall. That's how I saw it, anyway. I would love to see it on tape. If I am wrong, there are others I have definitely witnessed, as a neutral observer of previous games, I might add. Although not against the rules, some people perceive flopping as being deceitful. Oops, my bad. Forgot we're talking about Hope here. No way a Flying Dutch would stoop to that level. What am I thinking?

I am quite sure DePauw might recognize ways to improve their next hosting of a women's basketball sectional. There is always room to learn. But, if the Hope fans who have gone on a letter-writing and smearing campaign have their way, it may not happen.(Although, if by their on-court performance they deserve it, I have no reason to believe the DePauw women won't host again ... at the next available time.) One of the most disappointing things to me is the unfair judgments some members of the Hope community have placed upon DePauw, its women's basketball team and its running of last weekend's sectional. Sure, there were apparently some crowd problems, but enough to warrant this type of response? Geez, unlike how some of you present yourselves, DePauw never claimed to be perfect. And to judge so quickly and to comment so harshly (poor 'hornetiger,' for one)? Doesn't sound very christian-like to me. What happened to a certain amount of tolerance and not judging and...?

As part of the hosting process, I would think DePauw would sit down and evaluate the job that was done ... the goods and the bads. As for Hope, I think some soul searching needs to be done by them, too. At least by the ones who have been bashing DePauw to no end. (Did you really need to take the information to the men's MIAA site, and then continue to post stuff there after Pat Coleman at least twice told you to keep the information on the underutilized women's site?) It makes one wonder if there is not a greater mission at hand. Bash DePauw into the ground so they can never host again, and glorify Hope so they get an opportunity at every turn. To that end (glorifying Hope), I might add... I think a separate posting board within Great Lakes should be added for Hope fans alone. If I were a non-Hope part of the MIAA, I would get tired of the constant lovefest. "We're the best, Hope fans." "Gotta love Hope fans!" "The Flying Dutch are all that." While I think it's great to love one's school, most ALL people love their schools, and the people who make up their schools. What's really meaningful is when it moves from "self-proclaimed greatness" to outsiders jumping on board. The former gets a bit tiring. But that's just me, a DePauw fan, talking.

I will close with the following: Alright. Enough. We get it. I can't imagine another way you Hope fans could re-word your feelings of disgust about the DePauw fans and DePauw's handling of them. Much to your dismay, the DePauw people at the games would probably agree with some of your points, and beg to differ on the others. Forgive our imperfections. Also, please forgive this first-time poster for the length of this writing, but I wanted to cover a lot of territory before hopping off of my horse for what might be the last time. I invite any Hope posters ... you know who you are... to get off of your (high) horses, too. After all, you have other business at hand.

Not holier than thou, but one proud Tiger fan. Congratulations on a most successful year, Coach Huffman and Co. I wouldn't trade you for the world!

Cowboy J   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 15, 2006, 08:15:17 AM
Quote from: Cowboy J on March 15, 2006, 12:45:01 AM
I will close with the following: Alright. Enough. We get it. I can't imagine another way you Hope fans could re-word your feelings of disgust about the DePauw fans and DePauw's handling of them. Much to your dismay, the DePauw people at the games would probably agree with some of your points, and beg to differ on the others. Forgive our imperfections.    

CJ - I hear what you're saying, and in your shoes I would be defensive as well - but it doesn't change the behaviour we endured.  For me the really frustrating part of all this, has been the lack of what you say in the paragraph I quoted - that the DePauw fans would agree with some of our points.  Lacking that, it appears that this must be the norm and DePauw fans just accept it.  It's good to know that is not necessarily the case.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Old Gold on March 15, 2006, 10:04:42 AM
Actually, Flying Dutch Fan, you would never be in CJ's shoes since it appears that Hope College fans never exhibit bad fan behavior and this discussion wouldn't exist with you on the defensive. ;D

First congratulations to the Hope players on a great season. You should be proud of your accomplishments.

Second, I am absolutely appalled. Yes, appalled that a small group of emotionally-charged fans would use a public forum to make accusations and broad generalizations regarding the DePauw administration and their actions or, in your view, inaction during Saturday night's NCAA game.

Profanity from fans, coaches and players shouldn't be tolerated in college arenas. Unfortunately, it is prevalent throughout the country. If you're a fan of college basketball, then you'd have to be ignorant to think that the only place it occurs is in Greencastle, Indiana.

That's not a defense for it, but it's an issue with which college administrators across the country are dealing and your assaults on the entire DePauw community are incredibly judgmental at the very least.

The DePauw administrators did nothing? That is simply not true! I saw students escorted from the game. I also saw the athletic director address individual students when their individual behavior was identified and that individual behavior then ceased. Additionally, multiple readings of the sportsmanship statement occurred throughout the game by the public address announcer.

Yes, there were "BS" cheers. Perhaps three in the first half and one in the second half and they lasted about two or three seconds before the students policed themselves.

There's a mighty broad brush covered in orange and blue being used to paint the entire DePauw community as irresponsible. That painting is as irresponsible as, say, one or two students screaming "whore."

Andersdy, you might want to clarify your post about the DePauw players having a style of play. If you are implying that the DePauw coaches "teach" a certain style, then you are on an island, my friend. Kris Huffman and her teams are among the most respected on any level and they play the game fairly and with integrity.

A question to all Hope fans who were at the game.

What would Hope have done other than remove spectators from the game, read the sportsmanship announcement several times and address individual behavior in order to put an end to it?

It's easy to be critical when you think you should be the host of the entire tournament, but it's much more difficult to actually present solutions and no one here has done that other than to say DePauw did nothing.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 15, 2006, 10:17:35 AM
Quote from: Old Gold on March 15, 2006, 10:04:42 AM
Second, I am absolutely appalled. Yes, appalled that a small group of emotionally-charged fans would use a public forum to make accusations and broad generalizations regarding the DePauw administration and their actions or, in your view, inaction during Saturday night's NCAA game.

You've made our point - you seem to be more upset by our pointing out what happened than you are by the actual events. 

Quote from: Old Gold on March 15, 2006, 10:04:42 AM
Profanity from fans, coaches and players shouldn't be tolerated in college arenas. Unfortunately, it is prevalent throughout the country. If you're a fan of college basketball, then you'd have to be ignorant to think that the only place it occurs is in Greencastle, Indiana.

Well it doesn't occur in the MIAA - you may find that hard to believe, but we (the fans of teams in this league) cheer passionately for our teams, and get upset and yell at the officials, all without using that kind of language.  In fact I have witnessed the fans policing themselves in the rare occaision when the bad language occurs.


Quote from: Old Gold on March 15, 2006, 10:04:42 AM
The DePauw administrators did nothing? That is simply not true! I saw students escorted from the game. I also saw the athletic director address individual students when their individual behavior was identified and that individual behavior then ceased. Additionally, multiple readings of the sportsmanship statement occurred throughout the game by the public address announcer.

And the President of DePauw was questioned during the game about the cheers, which he claimed to not hear, and proceeded to leave the building.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Old Gold on March 15, 2006, 10:58:00 AM
I've made your point? You can't be serious!

I believe that I made it very clear that profanity shouldn't be tolerated. This is for obvious reasons and I think most of the posters to this site would agree.

Had you stopped there you wouldn't have gotten much of an argument. However, when you (the small group of posters here) chose to attack the DePauw administration and the NCAA Representative for inaction you also chose to distort the facts and simply make it up as your wrote.

You write in one sentence that it doesn't happen in the MIAA and then in the next sentence you write that on the rare occasion that it does happen, the fans police themselves. Which is it? It never happens or it rarely happens? If it rarely happens then it does, in fact, happen. The same could be said by supporters of DePauw University and the Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference schools.

The NCAA's sportsmanship statement also denounces "other intimidating actions directed at officials, student-athletes, coaches or team representatives." I believe that fans, coaches and student-athletes yelling at officials without profanity, is also unsportsmanlike. Would you not agree on that?

I was not privy to the alleged conversation with the DePauw president. But if it happened after the DePauw and NCAA officials did their jobs and addressed the language issues, then what would you have wanted him to say.

To the Hope players, good luck this weekend!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 15, 2006, 12:24:03 PM
I'm dead serious. 

Yes, you said that profanity shouldn't be tolerated, but only after you said you were "absolutely appallled" at our complaints.  Our complaint is that in this instance, profanity was tolerated.

Now you're claiming we made this stuff up to make it sound worse, give me a break.  I witnessed this all first hand, so don't give me that crap.

Why can't you just admit that it was wrong, that something needs to be done about it, and quit trying to project some blame on us.



Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: knights2000 on March 15, 2006, 01:07:05 PM
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on March 14, 2006, 07:28:42 PM
Quote from: hornetiger on March 14, 2006, 06:27:15 PM


I get the feeling that if this game was held at Hope some of the same things may have been heard from the Hope student section.


Not a chance... You are dead wrong here... While the occasional slip may happen at Hope, I guarantee that the AD and President would nip it in the bud. I really doubt you heard anything as bad from the Hope fans as has been mentioned here about the DePauw. You should be embarrassed and coming to this site to grovel, rather that passing the buck and defending your school...

As a Calvin fan, I will agree. I attended both Calvin/Hope mens games at Hope, where the Hope student section was much larger than the ones at Calvin (duh). Anyways, from what I can remember, Hope's chants were all within reason. I didn't have a problem with them, and from my personal expierience, I find it hard to believe that Hope fans said something out of reason.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Old Gold on March 15, 2006, 01:12:56 PM
Okay FDF,

Would this work better for you?

1. Profanity shouldn't be tolerated at athletic events.
2. I am appalled that accusations are being directed to the DePauw and NCAA officials for their "inaction."

I never said it didn't occur. It did. Is there a justification for it at a sporting event? No. How much clearer can I be on my feelings about that?

When the Hope posters extended the discussion into stating the DePauw officials didn't do anything, that's when you made things up.

I still am curious, is there no profanity at MIAA events or is it a rare occurence? It can't be both just as it isn't at DePauw University or the other SCAC schools. If I am limited to those two choices, then I'd have to say it's also a rare occurence at DePauw and in the SCAC.

I also haven't seen a post as to what you would do in addition to escorting students out of the venue, reading the sportsmanship announcement several times and addressing individual students on their individual behavior.

Again, good luck to the Hope players this weekend!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 15, 2006, 01:50:13 PM
Actually, that kind of response is right on.  I can assure you that should anything even close to this happen at a Hope game, your school, and probably the local paper would be receiveing a written apology.  I also know that the President of Hope, or either AD or SID or any coach would simply not allow it to happen.  The Dew Crew (Hope's student section) will stop a cheer (if the cheer happens to be negative toward the opponenet instead of supporting their team) with just a simple shake of the head from one of the coaches.

Do those kind of things happen in the MIAA ever - yes.  In my experience it has happened typically by individuals - some of whom were removed from the gym.  The only time I can remember a student section saying anything like that was the Calvin students at a Hope / Calvin mens game.  In that instance, it was chanted maybe twice before the head coach at Calvin put a stop to it.  I think the coach has the ability to stop it.

I thought I posted this before, but I also think a Technical Foul is a great answer.  Punish the team once, and they will make sure that it doesn't happen again.

As far as the DePauw officials not getting involved - I am only posting based on what I saw, and what other sources (reliable sources in the know) have shared with me.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AndersDY on March 15, 2006, 01:59:47 PM
Quote from: Cowboy J on March 15, 2006, 12:45:01 AM
And to 'andersdy' who posted something about DePauw's "tough style" which might have made the crowd more "tough" and the team using an "out-of-control, offensive foul prone style of play" with DePauw's #11 "throwing her body around"... Don't come up with some loose relationship between team and fans, and a scouting report on the Tigers and #11, after seeing them for one game, or on one weekend. That is completely ridiculous. As for the DePauw players "pushing off, at least lightly," I might agree with the lightly part, if anything. You make the Tigers out to be the devil, and your Flying Dutch, the saints. Oh, okay. I have seen enough of the DePauw women's basketball team to know that they are a gem of a group, led by a truly classy coach, and they're as within-the-rules as anybody. So, you'd be wise not to go there. As for the complaining about Bria Ebels getting her second foul, early in the game, when #11 was "throwing her body around," I can bet it wasn't #11's intent. But, as stated earlier, I have had occasion to watch Hope play, and although immensely talented, Bria Ebels is a flopper. I've seen it a number of times. Case in point: end of the first half against Wash U. Sure, the Wash U player had no business being that close, but Bria put an exclamation point on her fall. That's how I saw it, anyway. I would love to see it on tape. If I am wrong, there are others I have definitely witnessed, as a neutral observer of previous games, I might add. Although not against the rules, some people perceive flopping as being deceitful. Oops, my bad. Forgot we're talking about Hope here. No way a Flying Dutch would stoop to that level. What am I thinking?  

Ok, calm down, it was baseless speculation as I started the whole theory with "I wonder if..." I watched one game and based on that game, #11 appeared to like creating contact. Nothing against the rules about that, but I do think that if an offensive player wants to create contact, that shouldn't be a defensive foul every time, and it wasn't called way more than it should have been, but I did think #11 succeeded in getting one cheap foul called on Bria. All I was saying is #11 particularly, and some of the rest of the team seemed to play a tough style that wasn't afraid of contact. They play a perfectly legal style of basketball, but it could be described as "attacking." I was simply throwing out an idea that perhaps misguided fans saw an attacking style of basketball and determined that they should also be on the attack from the stands. I have no basis for saying that other than observing a game where both team and fans were tough, but in very different ways.

Quote from: Old Gold on March 15, 2006, 10:04:42 AM
Andersdy, you might want to clarify your post about the DePauw players having a style of play. If you are implying that the DePauw coaches "teach" a certain style, then you are on an island, my friend. Kris Huffman and her teams are among the most respected on any level and they play the game fairly and with integrity.

Yeah, to followup, DePauw was a tough team, and I did think the #11 plays a style which can draw fouls, but also creates offensive fouls which I was hoping the refs wouldn't ignore. Certainly any coach teaches some sort of style of play, but I wasn't saying anything underhanded is taught as if the players are schooled in getting cheap fouls. I saw nothing from the DePauw bench the entire game to question their class. I thought they liked creating contact, some of which I felt could have been called in Hope's favor, but there was nothing shameful done by the team. Heck, we Hope fans have a men's player who has been accused of knowing some tricks for drawing cheap fouls, so we know how we're only tempted to call a physical play "dirty" if it creates a call which went against us.


I know nothing about the reaction of the administration and wasn't near the non-student section, so the only claim I will make is that "bullsh--" and "you f--ked up" chants appeared to be well rehearsed parts of the DePauw students' repetoire. They were not random outbursts by individuals, but the planned cheers of a noticeable core group of students. I did not see any self-policing from the rest of the students as none in the student section seemed to have a problem with it. I won't claim to know specifics about what was done to stop these actions, but I do know that the same reports about the fans were made after Friday's game, so it doesn't appear as if the problem popped up out of nowhere when the cheers in question started in the first minute of Saturday's game. I have no idea what was done to control the students during the game (from my seat, all I heard was Charlie Brown's mother through the PA system) but it didn't appear that it had been considered enough of a problem to put a clear stop to any time before the game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 15, 2006, 02:52:56 PM
Spoke with a person who has family attending De Pauw, and  several things are clear (to me at least).   What happened last Sat. night was not an isolated incident.  What is considered as rude, vulgar or objectionable language at Hope, Calvin and most of the MIAA is more "socially acceptable" at De Pauw.   Some students at De Pauw avoid attending games because they would rather not hear the trash.  The administration at De Pauw has a wide variety of means to end offensive behavior.  You can repeatedly play the canned NCAA message on sportmanship or you can physically go the announcers table, and make the announcement yourself as an offical of De Pauw.  You can eject abusive fans one at a time or as a group.  The few times I've seen a fan ejected at an MIAA game it has had a very sobering effect on the entire crowd, and offensive conduct ceased.  Apparently the isolated attempts at discipling any De Pauw students were done rather privately, and had little impact on the entire crowd.   De Pauw U. prides itself on it's supposed high academic standards, and the success of some of it's grads.  One poster thinks it is great the high % of students involved in "greek" activities, but at what expense?   Perhaps the norm at De Pauw is for the administration to do litle to rein in any negative behavior on the part of students?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: GoKnights68 on March 15, 2006, 03:55:34 PM
Do those kind of things happen in the MIAA ever - yes.  In my experience it has happened typically by individuals - some of whom were removed from the gym.  The only time I can remember a student section saying anything like that was the Calvin students at a Hope / Calvin mens game.  In that instance, it was chanted maybe twice before the head coach at Calvin put a stop to it.  I think the coach has the ability to stop it. 





(sigh)




The only time someone's ever said any profanity is Calvin students.  Yup...



I which I was at this game.  I've never seen any people so outraged over students. 




Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Civic Minded on March 15, 2006, 04:06:14 PM
Quote from: goknights68 on March 15, 2006, 03:55:34 PM
Do those kind of things happen in the MIAA ever - yes.  In my experience it has happened typically by individuals - some of whom were removed from the gym.  The only time I can remember a student section saying anything like that was the Calvin students at a Hope / Calvin mens game.  In that instance, it was chanted maybe twice before the head coach at Calvin put a stop to it.  I think the coach has the ability to stop it. 





(sigh)




The only time someone's ever said any profanity is Calvin students.  Yup...



I which I was at this game.  I've never seen any people so outraged over students. 


Hey, these DePauw fans (adults and students) made Kzoo fans of years past look tame!   ;)    And no, I don't think the original poster intended to imply that it only ever happened at Calvin.  But really, nowadays it rarely happens in any MIAA school, except this year, and that happened to be Calvin students (at least in the repetoire of games I attended).  The point was actually a compliment -- Calvin's coach realized a bad thing, and put a stop to it right away.

At any rate, how 'bout we drop it now?  It happened, it was out of hand compared with what we've grown accustomed to, and its over.  If that's the way school's in "the real world" function, then fine.  But those who take offense are allowed to let their feelings be known. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hornet fan on March 15, 2006, 04:18:48 PM
Perfect timing...

Quote

Hey, these DePauw fans (adults and students) made Kzoo fans of years past look tame! ;)

Quote

I had to come over from the Men's Board at Cowboy J's request...

As an MIAA fan, it does happen (beyond Calvin), and when it does, the Game Administraors at ALL sites (Hope, Calvin, Adrian, Albion, Alma, and yes even Kalamazoo and Olivet) put it to an end.

I can go on and on about what Hope fans have done over the years that has crossed the line, but why?  Why would I bring up the fact that Hope Students have called K students "F#ggots?"  Why would I bring up the fact that after a heated Hope/K game, a Hope fan called a K Coach a "N!gger?"  Is it apalling, yes.  Is it isolated, yes.  Hope fans are not perfect, but burying the group because of the actions of 10% of the population is unnecessary.

I was not there, it sounds out of line.  But cut these people some slack...

Quote

At any rate, how 'bout we drop it now? It happened, it was out of hand compared with what we've grown accustomed to, and its over. If that's the way school's in "the real world" function, then fine. But those who take offense are allowed to let their feelings be known.
Quote

I could not agree more...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hornet fan on March 15, 2006, 04:21:21 PM
Oh yeah, good luck to the Flying Dutch in the Final 4...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on March 15, 2006, 04:21:39 PM
While I originally intended to stay out of this thread, I decided to offer a different perspective since I broadcasted the games at DePauw for NCAA Sports this weekend.

My experience was a pleasant one, thanks largely to the efforts of DePauw's Sports Information Director and his crew.  They provided very professional support, which I appreciated.

While I wasn't close enough to the student section to discern what they were chanting most of the time, I was impressed with the turnout.  The students filled the Lilly Center on Friday night despite it being the beginning of spring break.  From experiences elsewhere, I know that's not a given.

I was impressed at the men's basketball team painting their chests up in support of the women.  It's hard to imagine J.J. Redick or Rudy Gay doing that in Division I.  The band did a fantastic job (always a fan of bands doing renditions of Kansas songs), adding to the atmosphere.

As for the students, I did hear the BS chant but didn't think too much about it.  It's fairly commonplace at sporting event, which doesn't make it right, but might explain why I didn't have much of a reaction to it.  From my admittedly isolated vantage point, I enjoyed the DePauw students' creative outfits which included a caveman, a slice of pizza and characters from Peter Pan.  Sounds like the beginning of a "walked into a bar" joke.

And I was impressed by the Hope fans on Saturday who filled the gym and had a "Let's Go Hope" chant going 90 minutes before the tip.  While I may've missed some of the unsavory moments, I was impressed with the crowd.

That's not meant as dispersion toward the Hope fans on here.  I wouldn't try to dispute the veracity of their complaints.  But I thought it might be good to offer a different perspective.

To echo the closing sentiments of the past two messages, let us "Carry on my wayward sons.  There'll be peace when we are done.  Lay our weary heads to rest.  Don't we cry no more." :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 15, 2006, 04:58:13 PM
I agree. Not to condone the bull-s*** chant, but it is very pervasive. It's unfair to paint DePauw as an outlier on that issue.

I find it less troublesome than the "HEY! YOU SUCK!" chant that I heard probably 20 times this past weekend. I wonder if that will end up on Outside the Lines tonight.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: DPULefty22 on March 15, 2006, 05:50:35 PM
Tiger fan here.

Let me make this abundantly clear: I do NOT condone the use of profanity by a student section (I consider the 'bull-(bleep)' chant an exception to that rule, as it is a tradition at just about every sporting event I've ever been to, high school, college, and pro alike). While I consider heckling to be acceptable under certain circumstances (as long as it's not profane - the 'AIR-BALL' chant is a perfect example, so is a 'you can't do that!' after a foul), there are lines that you have to be careful not to cross. I understand this. So do all DePauw students.

But when a smattering (this is the operative word here) of fans use the f-word in one chant and are then told to stop, it's an unfortunate isolated incident. It is NOT reflective of the DePauw student section and student body as a whole, and it does NOT reflect a passive attitude from school administration - in fact, it's quite the opposite.

This is the only incident of excessive profanity that I can remember. I went back and listened to our school's broadcast of the game, in which the 'bull-(bleep)' chant is clearly audible and the 'you (bleeped) up' chant is vaguely audible. I do not once hear anything else that could even remotely be considered offensive that was orchestrated as a chant by the DePauw student section. Anyone who claims that there were chants of 'Wh*re' during the game is a liar. (So is anyone who says that DePauw parents were cursing at their own players or coaches.)

Look, I'm sorry you guys didn't get to host the regional. Greencastle happened to make more geographic sense than Holland. Besides, it wasn't like the Tigers weren't a one-loss team coming into the weekend or anything... geez. All of these complaints reek of sour grapes. But hey, prove me wrong.

If a 'bull-(bleep)' chant offends you so greatly, or an 'air-ball' chant makes you think that some poor player might get their feelings hurt... well, don't go on the road anymore. Stay within the idyllic Pleasantville that you believe the MIAA cheering sections to be, where everyone joins hands to sing Kumbaya before sharing postgame tea and crumpets.

Hope your trip to the Neal Fieldhouse, a.k.a. "the real world, not some idealized wonderland where Hope College is respected as a beacon of all that is good and just", was educational.

Go Scranton!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: SKOT on March 15, 2006, 06:29:20 PM
Quote from: DPULefty22 on March 15, 2006, 05:50:35 PM
Anyone who claims that there were chants of 'Wh*re' during the game is a liar. (So is anyone who says that DePauw parents were cursing at their own players or coaches.)

                                Box Score (Final)
                            Hope vs DePauw (3/11/06)
Site: Neal Fieldhouse; Greencastle, Indiana  Attendance: 2000


It would take a lot of ears to hear 1999 other people in the arena for the ENTIRE game!
:o
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 15, 2006, 07:08:55 PM
Quote from: DPULefty22 on March 15, 2006, 05:50:35 PM


Go Scranton!

Vinegar calling our grapes sour!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 15, 2006, 07:35:50 PM
good luck hope friday night beat scranton 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 15, 2006, 09:23:37 PM
Here I thought I was ready to just be done with all of this - as several others have mentioned.

Quote from: DPULefty22 on March 15, 2006, 05:50:35 PM
Anyone who claims that there were chants of 'Wh*re' during the game is a liar. (So is anyone who says that DePauw parents were cursing at their own players or coaches.)

OH really?  Where were you sitting?  If you would like to provide a pictoral directory of the parents, I would be glad to point out the specific offenders.  Yes, I am actually that sure of what I heard and who said it.

Quote from: DPULefty22 on March 15, 2006, 05:50:35 PM
Look, I'm sorry you guys didn't get to host the regional.

We're not all that sorry you hosted, considering the outcome.

Quote from: DPULefty22 on March 15, 2006, 05:50:35 PM
If a 'bull-(bleep)' chant offends you so greatly, or an 'air-ball' chant makes you think that some poor player might get their feelings hurt... well, don't go on the road anymore.

The only thing that offends me (even more than what actually happened at the game) is the way every DePauw poster treis to defend it.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 15, 2006, 09:26:52 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on March 15, 2006, 04:21:39 PM
To echo the closing sentiments of the past two messages, let us "Carry on my wayward sons.  There'll be peace when we are done.  Lay our weary heads to rest.  Don't we cry no more." :)

Talk about small world - Civic Minded's uncle was the recording engineer for Kansas - and even has the gold record to prove it . 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: GoKnights68 on March 15, 2006, 09:48:36 PM
The Dew Crew are all perfect little angels, and their cheers are just so amazing and creative.  Shame on the Knight Club and DePauw for not being followers of the amazing Dew Crew.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: monsoon on March 15, 2006, 09:58:05 PM
I'm a Hope fan, I was at DePauw on Saturday...

Enough is enough already.  Let's move on.

And may I suggest Massachusetts as a good place to move on to?  ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 15, 2006, 10:01:45 PM
Quote from: goknights68 on March 15, 2006, 09:48:36 PM
The Dew Crew are all perfect little angels, and their cheers are just so amazing and creative.  Shame on the Knight Club and DePauw for not being followers of the amazing Dew Crew.

That is about the most wha wha, babiest thing, I have ever read on this site. Are you kidding me? Who said anything about angels? Go away dude...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: GoKnights68 on March 15, 2006, 10:50:10 PM
Come on man, I was just giving the Dew Crew praises.  I mean, that fake banner thing was just breathe taking.  Thanks for the negative karma though.  Keep it comin'!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roughrider on March 15, 2006, 10:51:40 PM
Congratulations to the Hope Flying Dutch on an outstanding season!   :)
Good luck in Springfield!   :)

Roughrider
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 15, 2006, 11:30:30 PM
Quote from: goknights68 on March 15, 2006, 10:50:10 PM
Come on man, I was just giving the Dew Crew praises.  I mean, that fake banner thing was just breathe taking.  Thanks for the negative karma though.  Keep it comin'!

The fake banner was classic.. and I didn't give you negative karma, but if you like...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hornetiger on March 16, 2006, 01:02:38 AM
Quote from: realist on March 15, 2006, 02:52:56 PM
One poster thinks it is great the high % of students involved in "greek" activities, but at what expense?   

If I'm thinking correctly I get the impression you're replying to my post....I didn't  mean that DePauw's greek population was "great" by any means. I was just mentioning it in the discussion about attendance and why there aren't more people at Friday night Lady Tiger home games.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hornetiger on March 16, 2006, 01:06:30 AM
Quote from: gordonmann on March 15, 2006, 04:21:39 PM
The band did a fantastic job (always a fan of bands doing renditions of Kansas songs), adding to the atmosphere.

If I could, I'd give a karma point for that.  :) :D ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on March 16, 2006, 07:12:09 AM
Quote from: hornetiger on March 16, 2006, 01:02:38 AM
Quote from: realist on March 15, 2006, 02:52:56 PM
One poster thinks it is great the high % of students involved in "greek" activities, but at what expense?   

If I'm thinking correctly I get the impression you're replying to my post....I didn't  mean that DePauw's greek population was "great" by any means. I was just mentioning it in the discussion about attendance and why there aren't more people at Friday night Lady Tiger home games.

My assumption is that people are not at women's games for the same reason that no one goes to women's games across the country - most people do not care.  You do not have to defend your attendance.  When the tourney came and interest went up, you guys showed up in full force.  That's awesome. 

My only point with attendance was that it may be that part of the reaction to fan reaction was the difference between the men's game and the women's.  If it was a men's student section, they may not see the same line as Hope fans thought there should have been at a women's game.  As I have stated, I think BS is a pretty classless chant but I think I would have ignored it at a men's game because it is prevelant (doesn't make it right) but at a women's game it would have been very disjointing.  Perhaps that is some of the reaction.


Also, if I am not correct, FDF brought his family with him.  That could also a big difference in mindsets between DePauw fans and those from Holland.  The MIAA is very family friendly.  At Hope games, there will be children as young as 2 being allowed to play between the stands.  The school and other schools in the conference demand it so that it can be good entertainment for a number of different age groups.  Perhaps DePauw does not have that same type of interaction with their communities and other fans.  Perhaps it is just for college students and people in Greencastle just know not to go, where as Hope fans were not given the memo ahead of time. 

Again, some of this could simply be a difference in fan culture in the two areas.  Not necessarily defending this, just pointing out where I see the difference in opinions...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: foul_language on March 16, 2006, 10:34:55 AM
I guess the (high school) coach's pep talk athat included the following would not fly at Hope, although DePauw might appreciate it:

There is no 'I' in 'team', but there is a 'U' in 'suck.'

The best way to shut up a crowd, I've found, is to beat its team. Sounds like Hope did that; get past it. All that talk, talk, talk (write, write, write) is only encouraging people. Get outraged at things that matter...

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 16, 2006, 10:55:26 AM
fl:  Your parents must be very proud.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 16, 2006, 11:04:01 AM
tniem - we gonna see you in Springfield?  We're leaving today as soon as school gets out, but we're gonna stop halfway or so.  Hope to see you there tomorrow.

GO HOPE!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: MIdoubleA on March 16, 2006, 11:26:47 AM
Good Luck, ladies! I'd be there if I could  ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hornetiger on March 16, 2006, 11:39:57 AM
Quote

Again, some of this could simply be a difference in fan culture in the two areas.  Not necessarily defending this, just pointing out where I see the difference in opinions...

Agreed.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 16, 2006, 11:47:46 AM
horne,

Now that you are back on... I wanted to apologize to you about taking the brunt of my frustration. You were just in a line of DePauw posters seemingly defending what happened.

Your post was far from the most grievous, and shouldn't have received my fury as such. Some of your fellow brethren on the other hand were not nearly as kind as your "other" words of encouragement. They should take a cue from you.

Again... sorry.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: foul_language on March 16, 2006, 12:40:48 PM
QuoteYour parents must be very proud

MY parents or the parents of the players? Here's the point: no one was traumatized. My daughter (player) recounted the talk, and we both laughed. It certainly was an attention-getter, it relieved some frustration on the coach's part, and they got on with the game. I can't remember if they won or lost and, in the end, it doesn't matter. They played, they got chewed on, they lived to play again.

I guess the thing that astounds me in this Hope-DePauw conversation is the venom of the participants--on both sides, apparently. I can take a lot more from students than I can from parents. Student fans don't have all their synapses firing yet, so I can excuse more uncivilized behavior from them than I can from parents. We're the role models, so getting into a fight on a board over what happened in the stands in a gymnasium five days ago seems counterproductive.

And now I'm doing it, and I wasn't even there.

How many more karma points do I get to lose on that one? I should take a few from myself just for dragging this out.

Good luck to all the teams left in competition. I hope all the games are well-contested, and I hope players and fans, alike, realize what a great thing it is to get to the final four, win or lose.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AndersDY on March 16, 2006, 01:10:34 PM
Anyone else hopping on the bus heading out from Hope tonight? I'll be there ready to head over to Springfield. Since we won't be in Holland, everyone practice your "real world" chants tonight.  :D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 16, 2006, 01:17:08 PM
Good one Andy!!  We'll see you in Springfield
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Cowboy J on March 16, 2006, 03:38:58 PM
Traveling made easier for Flying Dutch fans...

Leave your microscopes and your binoculars and your notepads behind. Although small and easy to pack, go without the hearing aids this time, too. Just know going in, as has been the case all year, you are far better than any of the other teams' fans who will be in attendance at this weekend's games in Springfield. 

What do you think, should the judge's robes be left in the chambers, too? I tend to think so. Although there will be plenty of things you can call the other teams' fans on, why not just sit (with perfect posture) and enjoy the games and your team? In cases where the other fans don't act Hope-like, maybe just forgive them, for they may know not what they do. Or, they may not have a well-organized policy in place to curb their behaviors to the extent that your school does. Take this as yet another opportunity to thank God you're a Flying Dutch fan.

With more room in the suitcase, might I suggest a few things: extra packages of lozenges - I can only imagine how constant chants of "Go Hope Go!" and "Good call ref!" might play tricks with the throat; more lotion - Hope fans' hands must get sore and chapped with all of the clapping for their fellow fans, the officials and, oh yeah, their players; muscle relaxants - maybe it's just me, but if I smiled at my team as much as you probably do yours, not to mention all of the frowns at the opponents' fans, I'd need a break at the end of the day. Oh, and if there's room, maybe an extra set of pom pons. Have a Dew Crew coach check to make sure they're legal, though (which I know they'd be on top of). And, for goodness sakes, do not obstruct the view of the Flying Dutch fans behind you.

It goes without saying, be sure to take your perfect cheers with you, too. It's one of the things you're most known for, and all those present will be better for having heard them. While the perfect cheers are great, I tend to think your ability to judge others, and quickly, is your greatest "strength." Not to mention the art of hearing only what you want to hear. Flying Dutch fans ... the talents abound.


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hornetiger on March 16, 2006, 07:20:41 PM
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on March 16, 2006, 11:47:46 AM
horne,

Now that you are back on... I wanted to apologize to you about taking the brunt of my frustration. You were just in a line of DePauw posters seemingly defending what happened.

Your post was far from the most grievous, and shouldn't have received my fury as such. Some of your fellow brethren on the other hand were not nearly as kind as your "other" words of encouragement. They should take a cue from you.

Again... sorry.

No problems...everybody gets caught up in the heat of the moment, especially after a big stakes game like that. Heck, I feel like an @$$ looking back at my original post.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Cowboy J on March 16, 2006, 08:47:00 PM
Don't be afraid to stick up for yourself, hornetiger. The only reason you got the belated apology from NW Hope Fan is that you have been completely agreeable in your recent posts. Even when you shouldn't be, in my opinion. As far as your initial post goes, you couldn't have been much nicer. Just look at NW Hope Fan's track record. You say a little nothing, and you're told you should be "embarrassed." A recent poster said something against NWHF's way of thinking, and that person was told to "Go home, dude."

What none of these people seem to want to hear is that we are not defending some of the things that were said last weekend. We are, however, defending ourselves from the barrage of judgments that have followed. While it is against the NCAA's code of conduct, if you will, to swear and to single out people with negative comments, what these certain Hope fans have done to blacken DePauw's name is no better. And quite possibly worse.

Some have called for this issue to die, especially after counterpoints have been offered to show the other side. It will be a long time before I can let this one go. As much as the Hope fans might feel wronged for what they heard at last weekend's game(s), DePauw people have a distinct right to feel wronged, too. We're much, much, much, much better than how they have portrayed us. I guess the important thing is for us, and the neutral readers of these posts, to realize this. After all, it's become quite obvious there's no way to get through to them.

We, the people of DePauw, have never claimed to be perfect. Now that some of these Hope fans have spoken for their group, however, they should realize they are the torch bearers for proper conduct at athletic contests. So, cheer for your teams ... nothing more, nothing less. The eyes of the Division III world will be upon you.

Just so we all know, you can't say things against the other team, their fans or the refs, right? Only pro-Flying Dutch things.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 17, 2006, 11:05:05 AM
fl:  Sorry didn't realize you were a proud parent by your name.  In that case your daughter must be very embarassed!
Cowboy J:  Your village just called, and they would like for you to come back home.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 17, 2006, 11:08:33 AM
Quote from: realist on March 17, 2006, 11:05:05 AM
fl:  Sorry didn't realize you were a proud parent by your name.  In that case your daughter must bee very embarassed!
Cowboy J:  Your village just called, and they would like for you to come back home.

Ibid

Quote from: Cowboy J on March 16, 2006, 08:47:00 PM
A recent poster said something against NWHF's way of thinking, and that person was told to "Go home, dude."


And it was... "Go AWAY dude."
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: foul_language on March 17, 2006, 12:25:21 PM
Quotefl:  Sorry didn't realize you were a proud parent by your name.  In that case your daughter must bee very embarassed!

Actually, no. She has a sense of humor. She's fully aware that people say things that shouldn't be taken literally; that people say things in the heat of the moment that they wouldn't say under ordinary circumstances. She knows that the dynamics of a fierce competition sometimes brings on a frenzy and, on those occasions, things are sometimes said or done that shouldn't be (or bee, if you prefer).

She's smart enough to know that the person or people probably don't behave like that all the time. She's wise beyond her years in knowing that face value is too shallow to take as permanent impression. She also knows that the best way to defuse a bad situation is not to make it worse and not to let it evoke a bigger than necessary reaction. (Here I am, Pot, call me black)

So, all in all, she's pretty level-headed, and I suspect she has a great future. I hope she gets the opportunity to play in a final four sometime, and that I get the opportunity to face DePauw fans, Hope fans, all kinds of quality fans, and that in the heat of competition, I don't miss what's happening on the floor while I get caught up in what's happening in the stands.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 17, 2006, 01:15:03 PM
Quote from: foul_language on March 17, 2006, 12:25:21 PM
in the heat of competition, I don't miss what's happening on the floor while I get caught up in what's happening in the stands.

Point taken, but I don't think anyone missed Hope beating DePauw by 16.  ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: foul_language on March 17, 2006, 01:48:28 PM
Quote...I don't think anyone missed Hope beating DePauw by 16

Have a great couple of games this weekend! Talk to you on the flip side
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 17, 2006, 03:21:42 PM
Quote from: realist on March 17, 2006, 11:05:05 AM
fl:  Sorry didn't realize you were a proud parent by your name.  In that case your daughter must bee very embarassed!
Cowboy J:  Your village just called, and they would like for you to come back home.

Consider yourself high fived - from FDF and CM - who are about to leave their hotel in Springfield and head over to the games.

Will post our thoughts on the games later tonight.

GO HOPE
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 17, 2006, 03:31:24 PM
GOOD LUCK TONIGHT GO   HOPE
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 17, 2006, 03:44:03 PM
FDF & Cm:  Hope you enjoyed the games.  I got a few cool ones by my side, the Dell all warmed up, and have the set on D-1.  What a weekend.  Hopefully you will have good news to share on your next post.  Thanks for the + karma.
NWDF:  If I didn't already say it, congrats on reaching the milestone.  I enjoy your perspective.
I keep asking myslf, what would I think if my mother used "foul_language" to identify herself?  Then I come back to my senses, and realize my good Dutch mother had more class than that!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: foul_language on March 17, 2006, 03:48:55 PM
QuoteI keep asking myslf, what would I think if my mother used "foul_language" to identify herself?  Then I come back to my senses, and realize my good Dutch mother had more class than that!

Ah. Beauty is obviously in the eye of the beholder. "Foul" actually refers to those actions for which basketball players are penalized. It grew out of a conversation about what was and wasn't called during games. Why would you assume otherwise? Perception is a fickle thing, isn't it? Yours a little lower than others.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 17, 2006, 04:03:52 PM
f_l lets see:  To quote from several pages ago:  There is no I in 'team, but there is a 'U' in 'suck.  That plus a spirited defense of the language used by persons from DP would lead most people to believe you lack class.  Nice try on justifying  your name, but I'm not buying.  Greencastle hasn't called so I guess it is safe to assume you never left.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: foul_language on March 17, 2006, 04:57:59 PM
Therefore you are without excuse, every man of you who passes judgment, for in that you judge one another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 17, 2006, 05:13:59 PM
Quote from: realist on March 17, 2006, 03:44:03 PM
NWDF:  If I didn't already say it, congrats on reaching the milestone.  I enjoy your perspective.
I keep asking myslf, what would I think if my mother used "foul_language" to identify herself?  Then I come back to my senses, and realize my good Dutch mother had more class than that!

Thanks. I get a little worked up about things sometimes, but don't we all. I wish I had more to post, but being so far away after so many years in Holland makes that difficult. I had plans on flying out for the H/C game at the new facility, but that fell through, and hoped that I would be making a trip this weekend to Salem, but alas...

I gave you some K, by the way...

-Peace!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 17, 2006, 05:40:09 PM
NWHF:  Over the years I have spent time away from W. MI myself.  The De Vos is a great facility.  You will be impressed after all the years in the Civic.  It is going to take 2 great games for the women to come back to W. MI. happy.  S. Maine didn't look like they had many weaknesses.  Thanks for the karma.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 17, 2006, 05:46:12 PM
My video just pooped out... how about you?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 17, 2006, 05:49:52 PM
Quote from: realist on March 17, 2006, 05:40:09 PM
NWHF:  Over the years I have spent time away from W. MI myself. 

Difference is... we'll never go back (to live that is). We went back in the spring last year for a memorial service, and thought about heading out this spring as well. Maybe I'll have Ray or Glen show me around the new building then. I still hope to make it back for a game one of these days, but in the mean time I'll have to enjoy the satellite broadcast.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 17, 2006, 06:00:20 PM
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on March 17, 2006, 05:46:12 PM
My video just pooped out... how about you?

All better now!  ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 17, 2006, 06:43:56 PM
What is this world coming to??? Just heard the BS chant from the Scranton fans...  >:(
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on March 17, 2006, 06:55:02 PM
Halftime, Hope by 1 - 27-26.

The video is really good.  :o
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 17, 2006, 06:55:28 PM
Well after minutes of trying to get the video and audio links to work on this site without success............it suddenly dawned on me to just turn on WHTC.

Sounds like an exciting first half with a series of runs by both teams.

Go Dutch!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 17, 2006, 06:56:01 PM
Quote from: tniem on March 17, 2006, 06:55:02 PM

The video is really good.  :o

I'll take your word for it.  >:(
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 17, 2006, 07:06:24 PM
Here's a piece of St. Patrick's day trivia.

The color Orange in the Irish flag represents the Protestant side Ireland.  Why Orange for the Protestants..........

William of Orange from the Netherlands took up the fight against the Catholic King of England. 

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: monsoon on March 17, 2006, 07:08:09 PM
Quote from: sac on March 17, 2006, 06:56:01 PM
Quote from: tniem on March 17, 2006, 06:55:02 PM

The video is really good.  :o

I'll take your word for it.  >:(

I'm having trouble with the video, too, sac.  WHTC's audio feed is working fine, though.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 17, 2006, 07:39:35 PM
I've had issues with video, but right now it looks great!  ;D

The camera work could be a little better, but I shouldn't complain...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 17, 2006, 07:46:25 PM
64-60 Witt... if you are interested.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: monsoon on March 17, 2006, 07:52:51 PM
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on March 17, 2006, 07:46:25 PM
64-60 Witt... if you are interested.

Thanks!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 17, 2006, 07:54:11 PM
Way to go Dutch ..........woooohooooo. ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: monsoon on March 17, 2006, 07:54:28 PM
Hope wins!  Hope wins!  59-56
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 17, 2006, 08:06:50 PM
Way to go Dutch... Bring home another banner!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roughrider on March 17, 2006, 08:16:38 PM
Congrats to the Hope Flying Dutch on a great semi-final win at Springfield.   :)

Good luck tomorrow.   :)

Roughrider
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 17, 2006, 08:23:16 PM
way to go hope girls  bring home the trophy and the flag   for the new arena go hope saturday
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Josh Bowerman on March 17, 2006, 08:59:41 PM
Great fan support, exciting game.  Congrats to Hope on a well-deserved win.  Good luck against USM tomorrow, and don't forget to check out the photo galleries when you get back to Holland.

Oh, I almost forgot.  Bria Ebels may be one of the best DIII women's player I have ever seen.  She's definitely a DI-calibre player, and really exciting to watch.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 17, 2006, 10:34:26 PM
Way to go flying Dutch.  Gosh pulling for the orange and blue can almost be as hard on the heart as maroon and gold.  Was a bit nervous at the half.  I wasn't going to comment on the langage.  Don't want my new best friend f_l quoting anymore scripture!!
S. Maine looked like a very well coached, and capable team.  I think the Flying Dutch have the team to handle them as long as they keep the turnovers down.  Also need to hit the ones at the stripe.
No problem with the video at anytime.  New computer with Media package and broadband may have helped.  We get spoiled watching D1 ballgames.  Let's just be thankful we get what we get on the video feed.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 17, 2006, 10:37:53 PM
Back in the hotel room after a nice dinner (following getting lost in Springfield trying to get back to our hotel).

The arena is so-so - jam packed, hotter then heck, and there is almost 0 leg room in the bleachers.  Not very comfortable when you've just come 800 miles in the car - but then a win in the semi's makes all pain disappear.

Hope played inspired defense, and I think did a great job holding #12 to 16 points or so - only 2 at the half.  The offense seemed to struggle, but just like she has done for four years, Bria took over when it mattered most.  She is an unbelievable player, and I think the best basketball athlete in the entire MIAA - men included.    Her quickness alone changes games.

In the first game, Southern Maine looked ready to blow-out HS, but the Cowgirls fought back to make it a real game.  Tomorrows games should be great.

TRIVIA - Hope College Basketball (M or W) is now 4-0 in national semi-finals!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 17, 2006, 10:51:36 PM
FDF: Hard to tell much about the facility from the video feed.  It did look like you were packed in there pretty tight.  The announcers commented how full the place was when Hope and Scranton fans really started showing up.  Not surprised to hear it was warm also.  It will be interesting to see how Hope does tomorrow.  Like the opening page says, they have already beat 2,3,4,10, and 17 to get where they are.  Now is not the time to get worried.
You are right about Bria E.  She definitely was most impressive player there today.  I know she did the same thing to Calvin about 3 times this year.  I think the D3hoops.com people are eating just a little crow for the lack of respect the Flying Dutch, and the entire MIAA have gotten this year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Civic Minded on March 17, 2006, 11:00:22 PM
Well, the heartstoppers continue!   ;D

First of all, wish you were here Sac and hope1!  But heck, I'm just glad to be here myself, since that nasty cough nearly had me in the hospital.

Springfield, Springfield...the birthplace of basketball.  The city violently opposed to street signs.  What a convoluted, confusing mess.  Ah well, you get used to it after a while.  From my hotel I can see the multi-colored glow of a giant half-dome -- the Basketball Hall of Fame.  Don't know if we'll venuture over there or not, but it sure is impressive from the outside.

Great game by the Dutch.  Really, they are just amazing this year.  Even with a very talented Scranton team, they are able to create open looks, disrupt their opponent's game, and cause turnovers with nearly every opportunity.  Tonight it was a combination of Bria's speed and agility, and Megan's uncanny sense of awareness that kept them going.  A time or two it seemed that they forgot that they were a team, but quickly got back into the flow that has brought them so far this year.  Can't wait until tomorrow!

As to the fans (you know you're all curious!)  ;) :  No complaints here.  The team from Texas was well represented, with probably about 350 fans.  Their biggest "attraction" was that their fans who were in body paint in their team colors of purple and gold were....girls!  Yup, shorts, sports bras, and paint.  They were enthusiastic, bordering on Ellen Wood loud (you know what I mean), and fun.  Same for the fans from USM and Scranton.  Yes, there was one "B.S." cheer from the Scranton crowd early in the game, priest and all (no, I don't know if he joined in <grin>), but it didn't happen after that.  It was all really positive from all of the team's fans.  In fact, it was kind of odd.  Even in situations where fans of all types would have taken advantage (i.e. "airball" shots), there really wasn't much heart in it from any side.  It was as if, at this level, this close to the championship game, that no one had the heart to belittle the players.  I will admit that I gave a weak "they're not playing" when a Scranton player threw the ball out of bounds, but it just didn't feel right to "pick on" someone playing so hard.

At any rate, it was a good time in Springfield, topped off by a cool beverage at the local pub.  Here's to a great tomorrow!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on March 18, 2006, 12:44:04 AM
Great win for the ladies!  They were able to pull through with a close win over Scranton.  One more huddle to clear, for the hardware....up next in the championship game the Flying Dutch have to face the always dangerous Southern Maine.  Should be quite a game.  Lets Go Hope! ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 18, 2006, 07:19:44 AM
FDF AND CIVIC    WE COULD SEE YOU ON TV   

GO HOPE  TODAY
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on March 18, 2006, 07:25:57 AM
Quote from: hope1 on March 18, 2006, 07:19:44 AM
FDF AND CIVIC WE COULD SEE YOU ON TV

GO HOPE TODAY

But could you see the Painted Ladies from Texas? :D    ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 18, 2006, 08:36:28 AM
Here's to HOPEing the Lady Dutch take home another banner today. The only bad thing about them winning another championship is that they would then be able to honestly chant back to Calvin next year "We've got extras."  ;) :D ::)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: samitysse on March 18, 2006, 08:37:24 AM
 go hope today
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Josh Bowerman on March 18, 2006, 09:45:49 AM
Quote

But could you see the Painted Ladies from Texas? :D    ;)
Quote

They weren't from Texas.  I talked to them, and found out they were women's basketball players from Boston U.  Evidently, there is some connection between their coaching staff and the HSU staff, though I didn't ever quite find out what.

They certainly were creative, though, eh?   :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 18, 2006, 10:10:54 AM
Quote from: Josh Bowerman on March 18, 2006, 09:45:49 AM
Quote

But could you see the Painted Ladies from Texas? :D    ;)
Quote

They weren't from Texas.  I talked to them, and found out they were women's basketball players from Boston U.  Evidently, there is some connection between their coaching staff and the HSU staff, though I didn't ever quite find out what.

They certainly were creative, though, eh?   :)

Josh, Kathryn Otwell, (you remember Kathryn, the former HSU Kodak All-American from the 2000 Elite 8 ), is now an assistant from at Boston University.

It just might start a trend...

March Madness!!! Painted Ladies Gone Wild!    :o  ::)  :-X   8)  ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Josh Bowerman on March 18, 2006, 10:22:38 AM
Might be something to look forward to, Ralph!   8)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hopefan on March 18, 2006, 01:57:31 PM
Maybe everyone already knew it, but the women's championship game is also on CSTV , found on channel 610 on Direct TV, listed at 2:00 Central, 3:00 Eastern - I knew the men's game was on, but only now recognized the women's game is also on.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on March 18, 2006, 03:50:54 PM
Hope by 3 at the half - 33-30.  Wish we had the video feed again. :\'(


(And I cannot use the cry smilie because the javascript doesn't work on a mac and I cannot type in this one like the other faces - perhaps I just cannot figure out the right combo)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dren on March 18, 2006, 04:05:14 PM
Quote from: tniem on March 18, 2006, 03:50:54 PM
Hope by 3 at the half - 33-30.  Wish we had the video feed again. :\'(


(And I cannot use the cry smilie because the javascript doesn't work on a mac and I cannot type in this one like the other faces - perhaps I just cannot figure out the right combo)

yeah... whoever said "internet video killed the internet radio star" was right...  : ' (   :'(
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 18, 2006, 04:23:00 PM
We were very spoiled yesterday. But considering they only showed the 3rd place game today, I'm glad we were not able to watch the dutch today!  ;) :D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dren on March 18, 2006, 04:42:03 PM
Hope up 55-50 4mins to go
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 18, 2006, 04:48:49 PM
Hope by 10.  The hay is in the barn!!!
Way to go Dutch. 
Welcome to the double banner club
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 18, 2006, 04:53:45 PM
Hey..........the ladies are going to do it!    ;D 8)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bulldogalum on March 18, 2006, 04:54:56 PM
Things are looking good for the Flying Dutch
;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 18, 2006, 04:55:19 PM
Win a banner, and beat # 17, 10, 4, 3, 2, & #1.  They should make a movie about this.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bulldogalum on March 18, 2006, 04:57:54 PM
That has got to be about the toughest road ever in a postseason tournament.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 18, 2006, 04:58:54 PM
We're # 1, and this is our house.  Nice to hear.  Lots of nice words from the announcers.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 18, 2006, 04:59:08 PM
Quote from: realist on March 18, 2006, 04:55:19 PM
Win a banner, and beat # 17, 10, 4, 3, 2, & #1.  They should make a movie about this.

That really is incredible.

Way to go ladies. 8) ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 18, 2006, 05:00:26 PM
Huge props to Albionbritfan who picked this back in February I believe.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 18, 2006, 05:03:47 PM
Hope Wins!!!

WOOOOHOOOO!  :D :D :D

Congrats Lady Dutch! Way to do Hope and the MIAA proud!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on March 18, 2006, 05:08:36 PM
So we get a second banner!  ;D

Congrats Flying Dutch!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roughrider on March 18, 2006, 05:09:35 PM
Congratulations to the Hope Flying Dutch, 2006 NCAA Division III Women's Basketball National Champions.   :)

Way to go, ladies!!   :)

Roughrider
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeGirl on March 18, 2006, 05:10:56 PM
WAY TO GO DUTCH!  EXCELLENT PLAYING AND WELL DESERVED!!!!

The local newspapers this morning said that watching Bria Ebels play alone is worth the cost of admission.  

Congrats to Brian Morehouse on Coach of the Year.  
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 18, 2006, 05:19:32 PM
hope    wins the    naional championship    today   


maybe a celberation sunday when the team gets back  go hope it is alsome

1 more banner to hang up
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bulldogalum on March 18, 2006, 05:38:24 PM
Congrats to the Hope women.  Great season, and a wonderful run through the playoffs on the road!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: silent_observer on March 18, 2006, 05:44:45 PM
Congrats Hope on a much deserved championship!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on March 18, 2006, 06:03:36 PM
A great win for the Dutch.  A good plug for the MIAA.  Way to go!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 18, 2006, 06:14:58 PM
No doubt who had the best D3 women's team this year.  You could feel it about 5 minutes into the second half that Hope wanted this game, and would not be denied.  Great greeat win for a fine team.
Enjoy the party, and hanging the banner.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mark_reichert on March 18, 2006, 07:11:39 PM
Congratulations to Hope in joining Stevens Point, Trinity, and Milliken in beating Washington University and keeping them out of the Final Four on the way to the Division III Championship.

Perhaps, unlike those three and Wilmington, they'll return to the tournament to defend their title.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: GoKnights68 on March 18, 2006, 08:33:57 PM
The Hope women's radio announcer is what defines a homer.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 18, 2006, 09:27:02 PM
Congratulations to the Lady Dutch on their new banner. Now you do have extras.    ;) :D ::)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on March 18, 2006, 10:47:43 PM
I also would like to congratulate the Hope Flying Dutch on a well played season, topped off by winning the NCAA DIII National Championship.  I knew they would pull through.  They played magnificently all season long.  I applaud the ladies for their efforts.   8) ;D 

   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on March 19, 2006, 01:43:48 AM
ongrats to the Women on winning the national championship and Congrats to Bri on the MVP.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 19, 2006, 06:43:58 AM
Congrats to the Flying Dutch on an outstanding season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 19, 2006, 08:28:20 AM
Just getting ready to hit the road for home - I guess I slept last night, but still on cloud nine.  That was an absolutely amazing day! - I just saw the score go by on the ESPN ticker!!! - There is nothing that compares to cheering your team to a national championship.  What a GREAT team.  The Coach of Southern Maine was quoted as saying that this is the best DIII team he has seen in a long time, and one he feels could beat some DI teams.  I agree.

The run this team made is just amazing!  Not only beating numbers 1,2,3,4,10, and 17, but also beating 5 D3hoops all-Americans.  I gotta believe that is the most impressive run ever.

The fans were awesome again.  The students even got us old guys to do the stretching with them in pre-game, we did the "who-cares" and more.  The SMU fans were chanting "we're #1" about 20 minutes before the game, and it was really sweet to be a ble to echo that back to them about 2 hours later.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on March 19, 2006, 09:24:23 AM
Quote from: goknights68 on March 18, 2006, 08:33:57 PM
The Hope women's radio announcer is what defines a homer.

Yeah, he is about unbearable to listen to at times.  He is yelling so much that I cannot even understand if something good or bad happened.  You need rewind.  Usually he has done the women's games and the commentator has done the men's (when the station has run both games in an evening).  It would have been nice to have the usual, more even keel announcer.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AndersDY on March 19, 2006, 10:53:18 AM
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1.tinypic.com%2Frsbdif.jpg&hash=ce819ceed7f03731153251ad69eba8b3f52e1ff6)

I definitely think you'd be hard pressed to find a more difficult road any men's or women's D3 team has taken to a national title. In their last 4 games, they beat 1-4 in the last D3hoops poll. That also meant they beat every single team with any first place votes in that poll. They won 0 games at their shiny new home court advantage. One of those top 4 was beaten in their home gym, and the last two were certainly located closer to the arena in Massachusetts than Hope. While in Springfield, someone found an NCAA paper previewing the upcoming tourney which mentioned 5 potential contenders to watch in both the men's and women's brackets: one of those contenders on the women's side is still standing after beating the other 4 in consecutive games. The Flying Dutch must feel like they're ready for anyone else that could possibly be thrown at them, if there were any contenders left.

Scranton and USM brought two extremely tough teams out there. I'm surprised that Marble, Myles, and Mellody were not all first team AAs. Good fans and great games all weekend. What a way to end the season.

For those that didn't get to make it, see how it all ended:
http://video.tinypic.com/player.php?v=rsaseh
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 19, 2006, 12:45:32 PM
that was cool   


the team lands at tulip city airport at  2.30  today   lets go out and greet them
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 19, 2006, 01:04:34 PM
A little tidbit............Hope's largest deficit during the tournament against said teams was 4 points.

Four!

Thats awesome.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 19, 2006, 01:07:47 PM
Cool video Andersdy, thanks.

Chills, definately.  ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mark_reichert on March 19, 2006, 01:38:07 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 19, 2006, 08:28:20 AM
The Coach of Southern Maine was quoted as saying that this is the best DIII team he has seen in a long time, and one he feels could beat some DI teams. I agree.

The run this team made is just amazing! Not only beating numbers 1,2,3,4,10, and 17, but also beating 5 D3hoops all-Americans. I gotta believe that is the most impressive run ever.

Fifield has a short memory.

http://d3hoops.com/danbury/00/washuwins.html

Washington U. 79, Southern Maine 33
Washington U. 64, Scranton 30
Washington U. 86, Baldwin-Wallace 71
Washington U. 81, UW-Eau Claire 63
Washington U. 67, UW-Oshkosh 46

Granted this was the only time WashU hosted a sectional in the last decade at least, but Eau Claire was #2 and Baldwin-Wallaces was #3.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mark_reichert on March 19, 2006, 01:57:46 PM
Quote from: andersdy on March 19, 2006, 10:53:18 AM
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1.tinypic.com%2Frsbdif.jpg&hash=ce819ceed7f03731153251ad69eba8b3f52e1ff6)

I definitely think you'd be hard pressed to find a more difficult road any men's or women's D3 team has taken to a national title. 

For those that didn't get to make it, see how it all ended:
http://video.tinypic.com/player.php?v=rsaseh


Where'd you get the video?  I'd be more interested in the 25th Anniversary team ceremony.

I know it seems like I'm trying to rain on the parade, but I just like intellectual honesty.  Another tough run that might compare:

http://www.d3hoops.com/danbury/wtitle98.htm

I half remembered this bit before I went looking:
Quote:
On the way to the title, the Bears, who finished the season with a school-record 28-2 ledger, twice defeated defending NCAA champion NYU to win the University Athletic Association (UAA) title. Then the Bears had to open the NCAA tournament by knocking off the nation's only unbeaten team (Millikin); defeat the top-ranked team in the country (Wisconsin-Oshkosh) on the way to the semifinals; and then pull off their biggest win of the year by beating Southern Maine on its home floor.

Washington U. became only the second team in the 17-year history of the tournament to defeat the host school on its own floor in the title game.

End Quote

Second and last since the tournament started using a neutral site the following year.

The scores were

Washington U. 77, Southern Maine 69
Washington U. 66, Rowan 51
Washington U. 53, Wisconsin-Oshkosh 45
Washington U. 82, Bridgewater 36
Washington U. 66, Millikin 54

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on March 19, 2006, 02:48:59 PM
Mark:

I don't think Coach Fifield has a short memory.  Here's the full quote as posted in our Hope feature available off the front page.

"We got beat as good a team as I've seen in Division III," said Southern Maine head coach Gary Fifield. "They were every good as bit as those Washington University teams."

Since I only saw one of the Wash U title teams (2001), I won't try to compare Hope with the one you raised.  But I don't think you can undersell how good this Hope team was.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on March 19, 2006, 03:10:15 PM
Quote from: mark_reichert on March 19, 2006, 01:57:46 PM

Where'd you get the video?  I'd be more interested in the 25th Anniversary team ceremony.

I know it seems like I'm trying to rain on the parade, but I just like intellectual honesty.  Another tough run that might compare:



Then DON"T rain on the parade.  Yeesh!

Intellectual Honesty would require that you transport Wash U through time to play this team.  Otherwise, it is a mute point.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 19, 2006, 06:02:22 PM
Anyone know if any of the guys from the men's team made the trip to support the women?  Just wondering...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AndersDY on March 19, 2006, 07:58:08 PM
Quote from: mark_reichert on March 19, 2006, 01:38:07 PM
Fifield has a short memory.

http://d3hoops.com/danbury/00/washuwins.html

Washington U. 79, Southern Maine 33
Washington U. 64, Scranton 30
Washington U. 86, Baldwin-Wallace 71
Washington U. 81, UW-Eau Claire 63
Washington U. 67, UW-Oshkosh 46

Granted this was the only time WashU hosted a sectional in the last decade at least, but Eau Claire was #2 and Baldwin-Wallaces was #3.

I had heard the USM coach having this conversation with some Hope fans after the game and in comparing with Washington, he did specifically mention the years '99 and '00. Not sure what that means about how he might compare this year's USM and Scranton to those teams six years ago, but that was the opinion he gave. I have not seen any Washington teams personally, including this year, and I doubt any of these Hope fans are intimately knowlegable about those teams 5-8 years ago so all we know is what was suggested by one coach. If you're so concerned with his "intellectual honesty," I'm sure you can find Coach Fifield's email online and make your corrections directly to the source. None of us have seen as many of these teams up close as Fifield has, so we can simply report what we heard. Even if he was overstating things, I doubt he's going to ruin the reputation of a 4-time national champion with one man's opinion.

And I don't know where any video of the halftime ceremony with the 25-year team might be, but it just didn't quite seem to have that same excitement. Go back and find the article D3hoops wrote about the team's accomplishments, read that list over a loudspeaker, and picture those 6 women standing at mid-court in power suits. That was about as exciting as it got I'm sorry to report. 
Title: Front Page mistake
Post by: tniem on March 20, 2006, 08:49:50 AM
QuoteBottom: All-American Bria Ebels clutches the Walnut and Bronze.

The caption is wrong, that should say Hope Center Linda Ebels clutches the Walnut and Bronze.  Oh well!


And, aren't you glad you gave into Hope fans and added the women in your preview as one of the teams that could make it to the Final Four.  Apparently it was our women's tournament to lose and not our men's.   ;)
Title: Re: Front Page mistake
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 20, 2006, 09:40:51 AM
Quote from: tniem on March 20, 2006, 08:49:50 AM
QuoteBottom: All-American Bria Ebels clutches the Walnut and Bronze.

The caption is wrong, that should say Hope Center Linda Ebels clutches the Walnut and Bronze.  Oh well!


And, aren't you glad you gave into Hope fans and added the women in your preview as one of the teams that could make it to the Final Four.  Apparently it was our women's tournament to lose and not our men's.   ;)

Thanks for the smarm.

And yes, there's your banner.
Title: Re: Front Page mistake
Post by: tniem on March 20, 2006, 09:51:47 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 20, 2006, 09:40:51 AM
Quote from: tniem on March 20, 2006, 08:49:50 AM
QuoteBottom: All-American Bria Ebels clutches the Walnut and Bronze.

The caption is wrong, that should say Hope Center Linda Ebels clutches the Walnut and Bronze.  Oh well!


And, aren't you glad you gave into Hope fans and added the women in your preview as one of the teams that could make it to the Final Four.  Apparently it was our women's tournament to lose and not our men's.   ;)

Thanks for the smarm.

And yes, there's your banner.

Thanks Pat, hope you knew I was joking...  You guys do a great job.  The coverage this weekend was fantastic and you were right about the quality of the Final Four video.  Wow.   :o

To all that made the trip, hope you had tons of fun.  I am sorry I could not make it.  Eight hours was just going to be too much on the car without someone coming with me.  I will always regret it but will be happy to see another banner at DeVos when I make the trip home.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AndersDY on March 20, 2006, 10:19:20 AM
Pat, I also have to poke at D3hoops and point out you guys missed your chance when you had posed the question of what team entering both men and women into the brackets had the best shot at dual national titles. You listed all the teams who had both men and women berths and said that while Hope was a tempting pick, you ultimately gave Baldwin Wallace the best chance. I'm glad the Flying Dutch proved that choice 1/2 (or is it 1/4?) wrong. It's still too bad that the Dutchman couldn't make the double-up and also prove you right on your men's prediction, but one banner is better than none.

So next year do we have to point out that Hope is equal opportunity and rebut the "where's your banner?" chant with "title nine, title nine" cheers?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: usmhoops1 on March 20, 2006, 10:38:52 AM
Wanted to send along a big congratulations to Hope.  I am  a big supporter of USM but I thought the best team won on Saturday. Your entire community should be ecstatic.

For those who missed the weekend in Springfield, I feel badly for you.  What an incredible atmosphere.  Great basketball, fans, etc.Springfield did an excellent job.

Kudos to all the fans that attended.  The Hope fans were great.  Some great cheers. Loved the stretching routine!!

Again congrats.  You are an outstanding team
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AndersDY on March 20, 2006, 11:15:17 AM
Thanks USM, and it certainly was quite an atmosphere all weekend long. We felt our team was ready for whoever they came up against, but Myles and Marble were both incredible. That has to be a huge blow for USM to see both of them go out that way, though apparently Marble has a potential decision to get one more year of eligibility. USM seems to show up regularly in the late rounds of the tourney so if Morehouse can parlay this title into the recruitment of continued national championship talent, perhaps we will be seeing the Huskies again before too long.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: usmhoops1 on March 20, 2006, 11:54:59 AM
Marble will play next year.  After playing Volleyball at The university in Orono,  she transferred.  Still has one more year.  The frontcourt needs to get better though.  She plays well but is undersized when coming up against the size she saw this past weekend.

An interesting post from the frontpage on thoughts about Springfield.  Someone thought there was great motivation about Hope getting snubbed to some extent in relation to the ranking and all americans.

Any list of that magnitude with 400 plus schools is educated guesswork sometimes.  No one person can possibly evaluate that many girls.  You know how that goes.  Pick these 15 and someone gets thier nose bent.  Certainly, winning the title puts Hope to the front and would probably get  more thoughts in relation to rankings etc.

Because teams dont cross over and play until the tourney, there could probably be 4 polls, kind of like what the NCAA regional polls represent.  Not perfect either way.  Think of it this way.  You got the big trophy.  I think that is the ultimate prize!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 20, 2006, 11:58:44 AM
I talked to our guys Friday night after the semifinals and before making the final call on All-Americans and they told me Ebels had to be on there. (She was on the bubble with two other guards coming into the weekend.) Our crew announced the All-Americans at halftime but the decision did not involve the title game.

The only thing we held out for the results of the title game was Morehouse as coach of the year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Civic Minded on March 20, 2006, 12:18:08 PM
Quote from: usmhoops1 on March 20, 2006, 11:54:59 AM
Marble will play next year.  After playing Volleyball at The university in Orono,  she transferred.  Still has one more year.  The frontcourt needs to get better though.  She plays well but is undersized when coming up against the size she saw this past weekend.

An interesting post from the frontpage on thoughts about Springfield.  Someone thought there was great motivation about Hope getting snubbed to some extent in relation to the ranking and all americans.

... Not perfect either way.  Think of it this way.  You got the big trophy.  I think that is the ultimate prize!!

Marble is one of those players (and this is a compliment) who is very hard to like from the opposing bleachers.  She's everywhere, doing amazing stuff, and (seemingly) getting away with stuff that others don't (why does a slide 8 feet across the floor with the ball never count as a travel for her???).   ;)

FDF did overhear her after the game commenting to a friend that the size of our girls was something else.

As to being snubbed -- don't waste too much time thinking that our women or coach cared.  Seems our women often fly under the radar, and Coach Mo has mentioned on more than one occasion that that's just fine with him.  I didn't get the feeling in any way that they were playing with a chip on their shoulder.  I would call it more of a calm, cool, confident team attitude of "its okay, they'll see in the end."

All in all, it was a great weekend in Mass.  Can't believe we drove all the way out and back, but man, I wouldn't have missed it for the world.  So glad we were able to be there, and watch as the girls on the bench realized that they had the game locked.  Awesome memories, just awesome.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 20, 2006, 04:47:08 PM
Civic this little piece of your post says it all.........."Seems our women often fly under the radar".

I think this was very true here in Holland this year.......all the talk was about the men and their shot at a title.  But quietly behind the scenes the ladies were putting together an amazing season.

As the season wore on I think more and more people started to understand how good they were.........capped off by the 1500 who showed up for the MIAA Championship game.  Heck we didn't even get to see an NCAA game in Holland, likely because the men hosted instead.  So without the benefit of the Orange clad legion of fans who are more than happy to hop on a bandwagon........the ladies went about thier business......quietly.  Even the men's trip to Springfield got more attention.

The ladies have always kind of been in the shadows of the men's program.  Despite the National Title in 1990 the Hope women really haven't had a great history untill Coach Mo's arrival.  Hope's in the middle of a 7 year run of 6 MIAA Championships.......prior to 2000 Hope had 2 overall in 21 years of MIAA play.  In fact the ladies still have a losing overall record against Alma and Calvin.

The fact that the ladies played on campus at the un-fan friendly Dow Center while the men played in front of sold out Civic Center crowds just added to the distance between the two programs.

DeVos has changed that in that now fans have a nice place and a proper place to watch the ladies.  The double-headers with the men's teams drew great crowds......and I think many snowy evenings when the men were away the ladies got a nice boost in attendance.

Coach Mo has elevated a "sleeping giant" to national prominance............I have a feeling if Coach Mo sticks around a long time this won't be the last National Championship banner his woman's teams will put up in the rafters of DeVos.

Perhaps we should have been paying attention all along.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 20, 2006, 04:49:52 PM
P.S.  Bria Ebels was the best overall and most complete player I saw this year..........men and women.  Her ability to turn a game in her teams favor with amazing defensive plays and clutch offensive shooting was stunning.

.........and heck I only saw them play 4 times. ;)


........and I'm envious of her boundless energy.  ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 20, 2006, 05:19:27 PM
yeah mo dose a great job with the girl   team     they could be pretty good next year to
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dren on March 20, 2006, 07:59:54 PM
WTG dutch.  Congrats on a great season!

Also to Monsoon and SAC for winning the pick'em

Final Women's Leaders
1   monsoon   142 * champ via tiebreaker
1   Sac   142
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on March 21, 2006, 08:10:37 AM
Quote from: andersdy on March 20, 2006, 10:19:20 AM


So next year do we have to point out that Hope is equal opportunity and rebut the "where's your banner?" chant with "title nine, title nine" cheers?

I don't get the meaning of this one.  Please explain
Title: DePauw vs Hope in Elite 8 From Coach Mo
Post by: Morehouse on March 21, 2006, 09:41:03 AM
I'm asking that no more posts be made in regards to the DePauw game and the fans.  I sent the following letter to President Bottoms and Coach Huffman and Roz Fornari.  I mean ever word in it and don't feel they should be receiving the emails.  Let's show the class Hope fans should have and move on. 

President Bottoms, Coach Huffman, and Roz Fornari:
It has come to my attention that DePauw University, President Bottoms, Coach Kris Huffman, and Roz Fornari (NCAA site administrator) have come under great scrutiny for the Hope vs DePauw game. I would like to address this from my viewpoint. I have great respect for DePauw University. Kris Huffman is one of the finest people I have had the pleasure to meet in my 10 years as head basketball coach. She exemplifies EVERYTHING that is right about Division 3 athletics. She is a great role model and great ambassador of the game. She is an amazing coach who turns out great teams every year. Kris Huffman is also flat out classy in victory or defeat. I'd love for my daughters who are 4 and 6 to play for a person like Kris Huffman.
Roz Fornari was the NCAA rep and site administrator for the game in Greencastle. I am fortunate to serve on a national committee for the NCAA with her. I have the highest respect for her as a person, coach, and leader. Roz was also our site administrator at Capital University for the first two rounds and our liason at the Final Four. She did a fantastic job at all sites. We were treated with great respect and everything was well organized. She went above and beyond the call in her organization and representation of the NCAA.
The language used by the students was unfortunate, but not a reflection on Kris Huffman or Roz Fornari. They both did their jobs and did them very well.
Sometimes when students get in a group it empowers them. They do things they normally wouldn't do. Using the "F" word is an unfortunate thing that a number of students chose to do. I don't feel it should reflect negatively on Coach Huffman or Roz Fornari. I wish fans understood that college athletics needs MORE people like Kris Huffman and Roz Fornari. They are two of the very best.

Sincerely,


Brian Morehouse
Hope College Women's Basketball Coach

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AndersDY on March 21, 2006, 10:13:49 AM
Quote from: northb on March 21, 2006, 08:10:37 AM
I don't get the meaning of this one.  Please explain

Just referring to the Title Nine Era which intends to put women's sports on equal footing with men. As in we have banners, they just happen to be from the ladies. I was just kidding since the cheers are only directed at the men's team anyway, but perhaps the Hope fans need to start that cheer at Hope-Calvin women's games now.
Title: Re: DePauw vs Hope in Elite 8 From Coach Mo
Post by: northb on March 21, 2006, 12:11:11 PM
Quote from: Morehouse on March 21, 2006, 09:41:03 AM
I'm asking that no more posts be made in regards to the DePauw game and the fans.  I sent the following letter to President Bottoms and Coach Huffman and Roz Fornari.  I mean ever word in it and don't feel they should be receiving the emails.  Let's show the class Hope fans should have and move on. 

President Bottoms, Coach Huffman, and Roz Fornari:
It has come to my attention that DePauw University, President Bottoms, Coach Kris Huffman, and Roz Fornari (NCAA site administrator) have come under great scrutiny for the Hope vs DePauw game. I would like to address this from my viewpoint. I have great respect for DePauw University. Kris Huffman is one of the finest people I have had the pleasure to meet in my 10 years as head basketball coach. She exemplifies EVERYTHING that is right about Division 3 athletics. She is a great role model and great ambassador of the game. She is an amazing coach who turns out great teams every year. Kris Huffman is also flat out classy in victory or defeat. I'd love for my daughters who are 4 and 6 to play for a person like Kris Huffman.
Roz Fornari was the NCAA rep and site administrator for the game in Greencastle. I am fortunate to serve on a national committee for the NCAA with her. I have the highest respect for her as a person, coach, and leader. Roz was also our site administrator at Capital University for the first two rounds and our liason at the Final Four. She did a fantastic job at all sites. We were treated with great respect and everything was well organized. She went above and beyond the call in her organization and representation of the NCAA.
The language used by the students was unfortunate, but not a reflection on Kris Huffman or Roz Fornari. They both did their jobs and did them very well.
Sometimes when students get in a group it empowers them. They do things they normally wouldn't do. Using the "F" word is an unfortunate thing that a number of students chose to do. I don't feel it should reflect negatively on Coach Huffman or Roz Fornari. I wish fans understood that college athletics needs MORE people like Kris Huffman and Roz Fornari. They are two of the very best.

Sincerely,


Brian Morehouse
Hope College Women's Basketball Coach



Agreed.

Nice letter.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 21, 2006, 02:40:15 PM
Quote from: sGo Hope on March 20, 2006, 07:59:54 PM
WTG dutch.  Congrats on a great season!

Also to Monsoon and SAC for winning the pick'em

Final Women's Leaders
1   monsoon   142 * champ via tiebreaker
1   Sac   142


Wish I could say it was my expert ability to analyze women's basketball.........but I was a homer. ;D

But I did have Southern Maine in the final and I think I had Scranton too.  Can't recall. 8)

I was also a homer on the men's side, but managed to get 2 of the final four correct (Amherst, Virginia Wesleyan).  That UW-dujour philosophy didn't quite workout this year.



........and you guys thought only us fans read this stuff.

Nice letter coach and thank you for representing Hope so well.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 21, 2006, 04:04:53 PM
thank you coach on a great seasson this year keep it going  coach
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on March 21, 2006, 06:15:25 PM
GOOSEBUMPS! 

That's what I got when I was finally able to read the front page stories and the recent posts on this site regarding the win by the Hope College Women's Basketball team!!!   :D  I think I'm still on cloud 9 from being in Springfield for the weekend.  The ladies played really well and represented the college really well too!  I may have a few less shuckels in my pocket but I wouldn't have traded that experience for anything else!  It's something that I won't forget.

As Sac has mentioned time and time again, DEFENSE wins games.  And the Hope College Ladies Basketball TEAM won two very competetive games by playing tough DEFENSE.  Both Scranton and Southern Maine were very good teams and the Dutch stayed with their game plan and came out victorious!!!

I am VERY proud of the ladies, both on and off the court, as they played their hearts out and had fun too!

And the Hope contingency that followed the ladies out East, just spectacular!!!  They estimated that over 500 fans were there for Hope.  Ladies - it was truly our honor to cheer you on!!!

Yep, still have 'em - GOOSEBUMPS!!!   :D



GO HOPE!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 21, 2006, 08:21:58 PM
Cool. :)

Hey, a reminder that Coach Morehouse is on Hoopsville as we speak.
http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/tunein.htm
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mark_reichert on March 22, 2006, 08:42:57 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on March 19, 2006, 02:48:59 PM
Mark:

But I don't think you can undersell how good this Hope team was.

One last question, how did this utterly superior Hope team only beat the vastly inferior Wash U team by 3 points?  One would think Hope should have won by at least 15 points, perhaps all the way up to 46.

Personally, I think you are courting bad karma by continuing to claim them to be the best team ever, which given the fate of the 2002, 2003, 2004, and 2005 champions doesn't seem advisable.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on March 23, 2006, 07:03:51 AM
Quote from: mark_reichert on March 22, 2006, 08:42:57 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on March 19, 2006, 02:48:59 PM
Mark:

But I don't think you can undersell how good this Hope team was.

One last question, how did this utterly superior Hope team only beat the vastly inferior Wash U team by 3 points?  One would think Hope should have won by at least 15 points, perhaps all the way up to 46.

Personally, I think you are courting bad karma by continuing to claim them to be the best team ever, which given the fate of the 2002, 2003, 2004, and 2005 champions doesn't seem advisable.

Except he is saying it on the MIAA Board where it is mainly Hope fans right now.  Who is going to give him bad karma?  ;)

I am not sure I see what the issue is.  As far as I can tell, Hope fans have not said that this team is the best ever, they have just speculated that the team had one of the hardest runs possible.  It is mere speculation.  There is no way to ever know. 

Same with you continuing to say that there were better teams out there in the past then this one.  That is probably true.  But it is impossible to know.  It is simply speculation to put teams from different years against each other.  It can be fun for fans but in the end it means very little and shouldn't change someone's karma. 

And just so you know, I would have loved to see the Flying Dutch in 2002 and 2003 play WashU or this versions Hope team.  IIRC Keerkstra was never at full strength in 2003 after she had hurt her knee.  Plus, according to Becky Sutton (new last name) the 2002 was incredibly nervous in the tourneys, while this tem was much more loose.  Had Morehouse had that experience and helped to loosn up those Dutch teams of old, who knows what they could have done?  They were not as deep as this team but they had some great players at the skill positions with Bria and Linda Ebels coming off the bench.  Again it is pure speculation.  Doesn't mean much and WashU would have been favored but it would have been fun...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 23, 2006, 09:04:13 AM
Quote from: mark_reichert on March 22, 2006, 08:42:57 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on March 19, 2006, 02:48:59 PM
Mark:

But I don't think you can undersell how good this Hope team was.

One last question, how did this utterly superior Hope team only beat the vastly inferior Wash U team by 3 points?  One would think Hope should have won by at least 15 points, perhaps all the way up to 46.

Personally, I think you are courting bad karma by continuing to claim them to be the best team ever, which given the fate of the 2002, 2003, 2004, and 2005 champions doesn't seem advisable.

Those claims have been made entirely by non Hope fans, including several 500 win coaches.
Title: 2006 Flying Dutch
Post by: Hoper Upper on March 23, 2006, 10:32:29 AM
First, congrats to the team and the coach for a fantastic year.

Washington U. was, IMHO, the best team that the Dutch played.  Kelly Manning was the best offensive player in DIII.  The only way the Dutch won was that they played their best game of the year.  If they hadn't, they would have lost. 

The Dutch had the unique ability of playing their best when the game was on the line.  Over and over again, they were able to ratchet themselves up to win games--e.g., the Albion away game, the Alma home game, the "flu tourney in Orlando", Washington U, and then Scranton Pa.

There were lots of reasons why they should have lost games--(the Orlando tourney being a prime example--3 or 4 kids throwing up during the game)  But, they didn't.  They always were able to find a way to win.

What truly separates the 2005-06 Flying Dutch from the other teams was their ability for players not only to elevate their game but also to adapt their game so that the team would win.   Bria was the star of a lot of the games, but there were a bunch of kids who came up big over and over again during the year.   

Any team built around one player could never beat the 2005-06 Dutch.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 23, 2006, 06:18:38 PM
HU:  Very fine post.  Each time I saw Calvin play the Hope ladies this year it was obvious they were a superior team.  As some have mentioned no super star, but an excellent team effort from top to bottom.  Some teams just develop a chemistry or work ethic or whatever you want to call it.  They just weren't going to let up, or disapoint their teammates.  The Hope ladies this year reminded me alot of the Calvin 00 men's team.  Every player had a role to fill, and they performed when called upon to do so.  Very unselfish play, and they were focused on a goal.  Other teams just couldn't get the Hope ladies to crack, and instead wound up cracking themselves.
I think I understand where Coach Morehouse is coming from.  I don't doubt the quality of the De Pauw coach or the NCAA rep.  My only question remains why have a sportmanship article in the NCAA if you don't intend to follow or enforce it?  Failing to speakout only insures more teams in the future will be subjected to similar or worse treatment. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 23, 2006, 07:25:06 PM
I completely agree about the dominance of the Dutch.  How often do you find a national championship team that only has 2 players who average double figures in scoring, and no one who finished in the top 10 in scoring or rebounding in the conference.  I think this team was the best example of team I have ever witnessed.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 24, 2006, 10:29:39 AM
FDF:  You are correct.  In watching/listening to the tournament games you could tell the other teams/coaches were having a hard time handling Hope.  Normally when the bench players come in the pressure is a notch less, but Woods et al. almost seemed to turn up the intensity a notch or two.  Yes, it is fun to watch a TEAM play as opposed to 5 people in the same uniform running around.  It is interesting to contrast the Hope women's and mens programs this year.  The men very talented, but just never seemd to get a clear reading what their roles were.  It seemed on several ocassions the men kept waitng for someone to step up, but it didn't happen.  The women on the other hand everyone played 100% when they got their chance.  It also seemed they all had a green light to shoot.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 24, 2006, 01:47:09 PM
I don't remember who the quote was from, but I recall one opposing player (I think from Scranton) said something like: They were big... It seemed like when their bench came in they were even bigger than their starters...

I don't doubt that she was referring to size, but it seems to me she also was referring to HEART. Hope's bench not only played as big or in some cases physically bigger than the starters, but they came in and played like starters, with heart and emotion. Top to bottom, a great TEAM.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mark_reichert on March 24, 2006, 04:38:40 PM
Quote from: tniem on March 23, 2006, 07:03:51 AM
Except he is saying it on the MIAA Board where it is mainly Hope fans right now.  Who is going to give him bad karma?  ;)

I wasn't going to post here again until Coleman said I'd been discredited, but given that WashU has been stuck playing Stevens Point, Trinity, Milliken, and Hope BEFORE the Final Four the last five years, I'd say WashU fans have had plenty of bad karma already, particularly if you compare us to Scranton and Southern Maine fans.  You might rightly believe I'm whining, but I say I am perfectly right in seeing it as a sick joke played from on high, if only as high as the NCAA.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 24, 2006, 05:33:16 PM
Got to win the games to get to the final 4... Look at Hope this year. On the road the whole way and beating 17, 10, 4, 3, 2, and 1 to win it all...

Quote from: mark_reichert on March 24, 2006, 04:38:40 PM
You might rightly believe I'm whining

Yup... :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ronk on March 24, 2006, 09:40:37 PM
There was no end to them," said Southern Maine forward Ashley Marble, an All-Tournament selection, who was held nine points below her average to just eight points. "It seemed like they got bigger every time they came in."
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 25, 2006, 12:26:29 AM
Thanks...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hoper Upper on March 25, 2006, 05:02:16 AM
mark_reichert:

One difference between DIII and the other divisions is that regional games  in the NCAA tournament is based on geography  rather than seeding.  Whoever comes out of the midwest has had to beat teams from the midwest.  As far as basketball, IMHO the best teams are in the midwest--so to get into the final 4 you have to beat a lot of good teams.

IMHO, the ratings would be:

(1)  Hope
(2)  Washington U.
(3)  Scranton
(4)  DePauw
(5)  Southern Maine
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 25, 2006, 10:15:00 PM
Ottawa County, the capital of women's college basketball. ;D :D ;)

DIII Champ---Hope
DII Champ----GVSU

What do we have to do to get these two together?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 25, 2006, 10:20:45 PM
The Lakers won 2 championships this week...

http://www.gvsu.edu/gvnow/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.read_news&id=1DF95FBE-0402-CFBB-6B93EF28B734D41B

;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on March 26, 2006, 01:38:08 AM
3 championships in one year for Grand Valley State, how nice....Football, Women's Volleyball and Women's basketball...and it might not be over yet.......
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on March 26, 2006, 01:39:04 AM
So DIII-Hope, DII-Grand Valley State, just need MSU to win it in DI Tourney....and it will be a heck of a year for womens basketball in michigan  :P
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Civic Minded on March 26, 2006, 12:11:30 PM
Quote from: Hoper Upper on March 25, 2006, 05:02:16 AM
mark_reichert:

One difference between DIII and the other divisions is that regional games  in the NCAA tournament is based on geography  rather than seeding.  Whoever comes out of the midwest has had to beat teams from the midwest.  As far as basketball, IMHO the best teams are in the midwest--so to get into the final 4 you have to beat a lot of good teams.

IMHO, the ratings would be:

(1)  Hope
(2)  Washington U.
(3)  Scranton
(4)  DePauw
(5)  Southern Maine

Having watched 4 of the 5 teams play, I would rank them:

(1)  Hope
(2)  Washington U. (haven't seen them; will take your word)
(3)  Southern Maine
(4)  Scranton
(5)  DePauw  (actually, 4 & 5 seem pretty close in my book; could go either way)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on March 28, 2006, 02:03:15 PM
Quote from: sac on March 25, 2006, 10:15:00 PM
Ottawa County, the capital of women's college basketball. ;D :D ;)

DIII Champ---Hope
DII Champ----GVSU

What do we have to do to get these two together?

That is impressive, when you think that thet have to recruit against each other.  How many of their players were recruited by both teams?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 28, 2006, 02:46:28 PM
Quote from: northb on March 28, 2006, 02:03:15 PM
Quote from: sac on March 25, 2006, 10:15:00 PM
Ottawa County, the capital of women's college basketball. ;D :D ;)

DIII Champ---Hope
DII Champ----GVSU

What do we have to do to get these two together?

That is impressive, when you think that thet have to recruit against each other.  How many of their players were recruited by both teams?

Good question - I'll bet a few.  I did notice that GVSU has a "bench" player with the last name of Baltmanis.  Looking at her picture - I would guess she is the younger sister of former Hope player Amy Baltmanis - who was at the final four in Springfield.  Talk about a fun couple of weeks for her, if she made it to see GVSU win as well.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on March 28, 2006, 03:10:58 PM
FDF -

Yup!  Julie is Amy's "younger" sister from Paw Paw, Michigan.  From what I recall it came down between GVSU and Hope.  I perused the GVSU stats and she hasn't had a lot of playing time.  But maybe only time will tell about that.  And... HOPEfully Amy was able to go and cheer on lil sis too!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 28, 2006, 03:37:17 PM
FYI - all you Hope fans - from the Hope website:

A tribute to the national champion Flying Dutch will be held Wednesday, April 12 at 7:30 p.m. in the DeVos Fieldhouse.

I was just looking at the career record for the seniors on this team:

33-1 Freshman year (02-03)
23-4 Sophomore year (03-04)
23-4 Junior year (04-05)
33-1 Senior year (05-06)

110 -10 Total

Thats a winning percentage of 91.7%!!!  Not bad to look back and your worst season you went 23-4.  It's a shame they only got into the tournament twice.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 28, 2006, 04:17:45 PM
i think there will be a lot of people there on april 12  it would be a good idea to get there early i thiink 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on April 01, 2006, 08:44:04 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 28, 2006, 03:37:17 PM
FYI - all you Hope fans - from the Hope website:

A tribute to the national champion Flying Dutch will be held Wednesday, April 12 at 7:30 p.m. in the DeVos Fieldhouse.

Here's hoping that there is a great crowd for the women...


QuoteI was just looking at the career record for the seniors on this team:

33-1 Freshman year (02-03)
23-4 Sophomore year (03-04)
23-4 Junior year (04-05)
33-1 Senior year (05-06)

110 -10 Total

Thats a winning percentage of 91.7%!!!  Not bad to look back and your worst season you went 23-4.  It's a shame they only got into the tournament twice.

FDF, I was thinking that the MIAA just didn't get enough respect for at-large births but last year both Calvin and Albion were in and this year Calvin and Hope.  Can't complain about having two bids.  It is too bad that this class had some great teams at Calvin and Albion to play against.  Of course, that competition surely helped them during this year's run, which perhaps the Dutch in 2002 and 2003 were missing, IIRC.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on April 05, 2006, 08:37:26 AM
Bria Ebels in Sports Illustrated!!

Bria is in the Faces in the Crowd section of SI's latest edition.  You can also see it online:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/scorecard/faces/2006/04/10/
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on April 06, 2006, 02:32:04 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on April 05, 2006, 08:37:26 AM
Bria Ebels in Sports Illustrated!!

Bria is in the Faces in the Crowd section of SI's latest edition.  You can also see it online:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/scorecard/faces/2006/04/10/

And here I usually skip over those pages.  :-[

Thanks for the heads up!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on April 09, 2006, 04:59:34 PM
Recruiting news for the Hope ladies


http://www.hollandsentinel.com/stories/040906/localsports_20060409043.shtml
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Civic Minded on April 13, 2006, 04:36:12 PM
Quote from: sac on April 09, 2006, 04:59:34 PM
Recruiting news for the Hope ladies


http://www.hollandsentinel.com/stories/040906/localsports_20060409043.shtml

I'm excited about Megan -- she's good.  She really debated between Hope and Calvin (her parents are Calvin grads, she also has a sister at Hope).  I'm sure the Cowens girl is as fantastic as stated.  Sounds like good stuff!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: MIdoubleA on April 20, 2006, 09:08:58 PM
Green should be good too. Like the article states, she was overshadowed by her tall teammate... can't wait to see 'em play  :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on May 30, 2006, 01:35:06 PM
The official NCAA attendance stats are out, and Hope lead the nation in attendance for the fourth year in a row, with an average home attendance of 2928 (up from 2462 a year ago - gotta love the DeVos).  IWU was second with 2470 and Calvin third with 2089.  Hope's average would have ranked them 4th in DII, and 169th in DI (meaning they out-drew 165 DI teams).

The MIAA once again lead the nation (for the 15th consecutive year) as a conference in DIII, with an average of 1234.  The CCIW was second at 866.  Pretty amazing that the MIAA has a nearly 400 per game attendance lead over the next place conference!!

Another amazing thing is that the Hope women averaged 1329, which would have placed them (versus the men) in 8th place in DIII,  and higher than 56 DI mens teams.  Given their awesome year and the national championship (and the DeVos), it will be interesting to see if that number goes up next year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Joe-Man on June 25, 2006, 02:07:54 PM
Wow, looks like the DeVos Fieldhouse, which I say even though I'm a Calvin fan, really makes an impact.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on July 12, 2006, 03:58:11 PM
AWESOME - check out the home page here - Hope may be hosting the womens Final Four in 08 and 09!!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 12, 2006, 03:59:15 PM
Yep. I see no reason why the recommendation wouldn't be accepted, either, but hopefully we'll find out in a timely manner what the management council decides.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Grutte Dirk on July 13, 2006, 12:19:22 AM
With all the new recruits to go along with returning players, when will the Hope machine slow down enough for anyone to catch it? 

I don't see recruiting getting worse, how can the other MIAA schools compete with facilities and success? 

I wonder what it'd take for Hope volleyball to get on board?  Will the Dutch build them a nice new place to play?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on July 13, 2006, 07:59:54 PM
They already did.  There is one of the nicest volleyball courts in DIII in the DeVos as well.  The "end zone" bleachers rotate 180 degrees, and face the volleyball court.  Probably seat 500 or so.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Grutte Dirk on July 13, 2006, 08:35:10 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on July 13, 2006, 07:59:54 PM
They already did.  There is one of the nicest volleyball courts in DIII in the DeVos as well.  The "end zone" bleachers rotate 180 degrees, and face the volleyball court.  Probably seat 500 or so.

Whaaaaa' . . . stuck in a side gym with bleachers doesn't compare to Hope's basketball court and its seating.  No way. 

It's too bad so many of the other Hope facilties aren't close to the basketball team's, but different schools have different ways to tier their students.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on July 14, 2006, 08:56:04 AM
Quote from: Bilk on July 13, 2006, 08:35:10 PM
Whaaaaa' . . . stuck in a side gym with bleachers doesn't compare to Hope's basketball court and its seating.  No way. 

It's too bad so many of the other Hope facilties aren't close to the basketball team's, but different schools have different ways to tier their students.

Maybe so - but then it's not like you get 3400 people out to watch Volleyball.  I will still bet it's the best DIII volleyball court you could find.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Grutte Dirk on July 15, 2006, 02:19:19 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on July 14, 2006, 08:56:04 AM

Maybe so - but then it's not like you get 3400 people out to watch Volleyball.  I will still bet it's the best DIII volleyball court you could find.

But why not put everyone on the main floor?  Why put them off to the side?

I admit, the floor is soooo much nicer lived only for hoops.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on July 15, 2006, 12:10:59 PM
Quote from: Bilk on July 15, 2006, 02:19:19 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on July 14, 2006, 08:56:04 AM

Maybe so - but then it's not like you get 3400 people out to watch Volleyball.  I will still bet it's the best DIII volleyball court you could find.

But why not put everyone on the main floor?  Why put them off to the side?

I admit, the floor is soooo much nicer lived only for hoops.

I can think of a couple of reasons:

1. Both the volleyball and basketball courts are very clean - meaning that neither of them have other lines running across the floor.  The volleyball court has a similar design to the basketball court, graphics and all.

2. A volleyball game held in a 3400 seat arena would feel quite empty , even if you had 1000 people there.  A smaller area provides a better atmosphere for the fans and players, and increases your home court advantage.
Title: Re: Volleyball in Devos
Post by: tniem on July 17, 2006, 10:27:06 AM
Bilk,

I gotta say, I do not understand your argument at all.  Volleyball is not played on the same size court as basketball.  It is a smaller court (I know they need space around the out of bounds but even that is smaller).  So why do teams play volleyball on basketball courts?  Because their schools do not allocate the resources to volleyball.  Simple as that.

Hope built a new gym.  And as part of that construction they built it larger (the building) than it needed to be so that they could have a court that was large enough to play volleyball.  Most schools would not have done that.  They would have either put lines on the basketball court and had small crowds in a huge stadium or they would have continued to use the Dow Center.  Hope built its own volleyball court.  This is not some normal situation of being "stuck in a side gym with bleachers".  It is complete with its own volleyball only scoreboard, seating and court designed for volleyball and a nice new wood floor all in the DeVos Fieldhouse. 

I would guess, if you asked the team and the coach, they are very happy with their new digs and would prefer them over playing on the basketball floor. 

And to answer your other question, Hope's volleyball team has been turned around.  This is from the Hope website:

QuoteThe Flying Dutch posted a perfect 16-0 record in winning the conference championship in Schmidt's second season as head coach. The team posted a 27-8 record this season. Schmidt's two-year record is 46-22.

Calvin got the win in the conference tournament, keeping the Flying Dutch from making the NCAA tournament.  But it appears that Hope is back to its winning ways, winning its first outright regular season title since 2000, which was the last time they were in the NCAAs. 
Title: Re: Volleyball in Devos
Post by: Grutte Dirk on July 18, 2006, 03:44:31 PM
Good points....thanks for the response.

Quote from: tniem on July 17, 2006, 10:27:06 AM
Bilk,

I gotta say, I do not understand your argument at all.

I'll try to be clearer.

Quote from: tniem on July 17, 2006, 10:27:06 AM
So why do teams play volleyball on basketball courts?  Because their schools do not allocate the resources to volleyball.  Simple as that.

So why allocate the nice seating and lighting to basketball and not volleyball?

Quote from: tniem on July 17, 2006, 10:27:06 AM
Hope built a new gym.  And as part of that construction they built it larger (the building) than it needed to be so that they could have a court that was large enough to play volleyball.  Most schools would not have done that.

Just because most schools would not have done it still does not make it right.

Quote from: tniem on July 17, 2006, 10:27:06 AM
It is complete with its own volleyball only scoreboard, seating and court designed for volleyball and a nice new wood floor all in the DeVos Fieldhouse. 

The stadium seating in the basketball arena would be preferable to the bleachers they fans sit in now.  Why not build the volleyball venue with the same bells and whistles as the basketball arena?

Quote from: tniem on July 17, 2006, 10:27:06 AM
I would guess, if you asked the team and the coach, they are very happy with their new digs and would prefer them over playing on the basketball floor. 

True, but I would guess volleyball would like their seating to be as nice as the basketball's.

Quote from: tniem on July 17, 2006, 10:27:06 AM
And to answer your other question, Hope's volleyball team has been turned around. 

But are they in the top-2 or 3 in the NCAA, like the basketball team are, and will continue to be?  Can they bring in the recruits as well as they would with a venue like basketball's?

It bothers me that Hope builds this beautiful basketball arena while letting some of their other sports flounder in staffing and facilities.  In the MIAA so many school make little, if any attempt to be competitive at a national level with most of their teams.  But they still expect the high-end MIAA teams to travel and waste competitive dates on them.

What do you think?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on July 18, 2006, 04:44:25 PM
Bilk, have you been to the DeVos at all and looked at the volleyball court?  That may turn this conversation around and end things.

My understanding, FDF, correct me if I am wrong, is the volleyball court does have lighting and bleachers that are as nice as the basketball stadium.  It is not as large but it is brand new and it is more in line with the number of spectators expected to go to a volleyball game.  From what I can tell, it is better than simply having them play on the basketball court, the area is designed just for volleyball.  The bleachers are not the fold up variety, they are the ones used at the end of the basketball stadium that turn for volleyball games.  Not sure what else you want Hope to do for volleyball or less popular sports.

Here is a picture of the floor plan:

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhope.edu%2Fpr%2Fimg%2Fdevos%2F05DeVosConcourse.jpg&hash=471c1eaba359625f184fa2f1a2102be88c50bf81)

As you can see, it is a part of the DeVos Fieldhouse, it has the same seats as the basketball stadium (the left most bleachers shift) and they are not the fold up variety.  The area is designed for volleyball.  It is just as new.  The lighting and seats are up to par. 

You were perfectly clear about your belief that schools should provide for less popular sports (which I happen to agree with).  What you still have not been clear about is why you think Hope has not provided for volleyball.  They have been given a great new facility with all the bells and whistles.  In my opinion, it is better than playing on the main court.  Believe me, if it was not, they would be playing on the basketball DeVos Fieldhouse court (different seasons than basketball so it isn't interfering or anything) and the alums that gave would have saved a million bucks or so.  But for whatever reason the school recognized that volleyball has different needs and built a separate court.  If you are going to continue to criticize this decision, you need to explain what Hope did wrong with this venue not general criticisms of all colleges and apply that as an assumption. 

In terms of other Hope facilities, the biggest needs for a long time have been W Basketball and Volleyball since they were in the student rec activity building and it was crowded.  Hope took care of that.  The next sports related facilities that needs to be examined are the baseball and softball diamonds.  Some decent seating is needed and it would be nice to have a better clubhouse for the home teams.  Longer term, a new pool will be needed at some point.  Otherwise, most of the facilities are in good shape.  The soccer teams have a nice field, the indoor tennis courts are great, track and cross country are functional, golf takes place all over Michigan, and hockey is a good facility.  In fact, arguably, the teams that have had the worse facilities all these years have been M Basketball and Football. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Grutte Dirk on July 18, 2006, 10:16:06 PM
Quote from: tniem on July 18, 2006, 04:44:25 PM
Bilk, have you been to the DeVos at all and looked at the volleyball court?  That may turn this conversation around and end things.

My understanding, FDF, correct me if I am wrong, is the volleyball court does have lighting and bleachers that are as nice as the basketball stadium. 

They have been given a great new facility with all the bells and whistles.

I guess I would like to see some stadium seating, ie. the fold down chairs, like they have at the basketball venue.  As far as lighting, the west wall could've had some natural light comming throuigh it?  And maybe a way to close it off from the basketball arena (curitan?)

So, with volleyball, it's mainly a seating quality issue.

Quote from: tniem on July 18, 2006, 04:44:25 PM
...it is more in line with the number of spectators expected to go to a volleyball game...Not sure what else you want Hope to do for volleyball or less popular sports.

Your are dead on with this.  The smaller venue is better for volleyball.

You make great points, thanks for your time.  What'ya think about the seating?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Trailer Dog on July 18, 2006, 10:49:45 PM
Quote from: tniem on July 18, 2006, 04:44:25 PM
The next sports related facilities that needs to be examined are the baseball and softball diamonds.....a new pool.....Otherwise, most of the facilities are in good shape.....
soccer.....a nice field
indoor tennis courts are great
track and cross country are functional
golf takes place all over Michigan
hockey is a good facility

In fact, arguably, the teams that have had the worse facilities all these years have been M Basketball and Football. 

Hope's track is worse than many middle schools.  They just had it resurfaced, without adding a steeple pit or appropriate runways for the jumps.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on July 19, 2006, 09:02:17 AM
Quote from: Bilk on July 18, 2006, 10:16:06 PM
As far as lighting, the west wall could've had some natural light comming throuigh it?

Fair enough.  Not sure the dynamics of how natural light would play with volleyball players.  One criticism for basketball is that for afternoon games there is too much natural light.  But that maybe should have been done.


QuoteAnd maybe a way to close it off from the basketball arena (curitan?)

There is a curtain, or at least I know that was the plan.


QuoteSo, with volleyball, it's mainly a seating quality issue....What'ya think about the seating?

Would fold down seats be nice?  Sure.  But as a recent student, we would not use it for basketball.  Surely I would not need it for volleyball.  I guess I don't see it as that big of an issues.  Fold down seats are a nice reward to the season ticket holders in my mind.  It doesn't diminish the quality that much.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on July 19, 2006, 09:02:59 AM
Quote from: Trailer Dog on July 18, 2006, 10:49:45 PM
Quote from: tniem on July 18, 2006, 04:44:25 PM
The next sports related facilities that needs to be examined are the baseball and softball diamonds.....a new pool.....Otherwise, most of the facilities are in good shape.....
soccer.....a nice field
indoor tennis courts are great
track and cross country are functional
golf takes place all over Michigan
hockey is a good facility

In fact, arguably, the teams that have had the worse facilities all these years have been M Basketball and Football. 

Hope's track is worse than many middle schools.  They just had it resurfaced, without adding a steeple pit or appropriate runways for the jumps.

I stand corrected.  I should also clarify that with football I meant it in comparison to other school's fields.  Its a nice venue but certainly it is a bit different than having the locker room as part of the facility.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Grutte Dirk on July 19, 2006, 05:43:53 PM
Quote from: tniem on July 19, 2006, 09:02:17 AM
Fair enough.  Not sure the dynamics of how natural light would play with volleyball players.  One criticism for basketball is that for afternoon games there is too much natural light.  But that maybe should have been done.

No, I can see how the uncontrolled light could be a problem.

Quote from: tniem on July 19, 2006, 09:02:17 AM
There is a curtain, or at least I know that was the plan.

Alright, I should know that before I post.

Quote from: tniem on July 19, 2006, 09:02:17 AM
Would fold down seats be nice?  Sure.  But as a recent student, we would not use it for basketball.  Surely I would not need it for volleyball.  I guess I don't see it as that big of an issues.  Fold down seats are a nice reward to the season ticket holders in my mind.  It doesn't diminish the quality that much.

Would nicer seating bring in more alumni and faculty (aka. old folks)?  I think they may add to the atmosphere.

You've pretty much shot me down, point for point...GO DUTCH?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on July 20, 2006, 02:09:35 PM
Bilk, I don't think you can critisize Hope for its football facility since they don't own it and I'm sure have no control over condition of the field.  The City of Holland owns it and Hope shares it with Holland High.

I would also bet most volleyball players will be quite pleased with the new gym in DeVos correctly called DeYoung Volleyball Gymnasium.

For what its worth Hope's men's golf team plays on one of the finest facilities for any level of golf D1 to D3 at Wuskowhan Players Club. ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Grutte Dirk on July 20, 2006, 03:49:09 PM
Quote from: sac on July 20, 2006, 02:09:35 PM
Bilk, I don't think you can critisize Hope for its football facility since they don't own it and I'm sure have no control over condition of the field.  The City of Holland owns it and Hope shares it with Holland High.


I don't think I critisized Hope's football stadium, although I do post in my sleep sometimes.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on July 20, 2006, 04:00:57 PM
If you're looking for a non-Hope opinion re: the ongoing debate over Hope's athletic facilities (and even if you're not) I'll offer mine. I think that tniem, FDF, et. al., win over bilk--at least with respect to volleyball and golf. Having the volleyball players at DeVos in their own separate location is much preferable to placing the competition on the BB floor where the players would have 3000 empty seats to look at. The decision was well thought IMHO.

As to golf, sac is right. I've played Wuskhowhan and it's a fabulous track. You'd be hard pressed to find a college golf team at any level that plays at a nicer venue.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on July 20, 2006, 06:40:28 PM
Bilk--I may have read between the lines a bit about the football facility........which I think is excellent for D3 actually.

I can share with you that since I stepped on the Hope campus in 1988 they've built 2 soccer fields and improved both the softball and baseball diamonds which need improvement again, redone the track at least once, built an indoor tennis facility, refurbished the Dow Center, and of course built DeVos Fieldhouse.

The improvements are coming at a nice clip actually, it takes time and alot of money, money Hope doesn't always have.  Every academic building on campus has been improved as well.   I think you'll see more improvements as President Bultman's tenure continues, one of the things I've really liked about him is how he understands the importance that athletics plays in a small private college experience for its students.  He seems to be 100% behind Hope athletics.

Since we're on the topic of improvements I've often thought Hope was a little squeezed when it came to space with its athletic facilities.  My hope and maybe this is a long shot is that Hope will consider buying the future empty land the Hart and Cooley plant presently occupies and use it to develop more suitable baseball, softball, track soccer, tennis and intramural fields.

Purchasing that property could really give Hope the oppurtunity to build some first class D3 facilities. 

Pretty good dream huh?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: SKOT on July 20, 2006, 11:12:01 PM
Quote from: sac on July 20, 2006, 06:40:28 PM
I can share with you that since I stepped on the Hope campus in 1988 they've built 2 soccer fields and improved both the softball and baseball diamonds which need improvement again, redone the track at least once, built an indoor tennis facility, refurbished the Dow Center, and of course built DeVos Fieldhouse.

The improvements are coming at a nice clip actually, it takes time and alot of money, money Hope doesn't always have.  Every academic building on campus has been improved as well.   I think you'll see more improvements as President Bultman's tenure continues, one of the things I've really liked about him is how he understands the importance that athletics plays in a small private college experience for its students.  He seems to be 100% behind Hope athletics.

Since we're on the topic of improvements I've often thought Hope was a little squeezed when it came to space with its athletic facilities.  My hope and maybe this is a long shot is that Hope will consider buying the future empty land the Hart and Cooley plant presently occupies and use it to develop more suitable baseball, softball, track soccer, tennis and intramural fields.

Hope has RESURFACED the track twice since 1988, but they have still left the high jump, long jump, triple jump and pole vault areas ILLEGAL by NCAA standards.  And, it is still missing a steeple pit. 

That would be amazing if Hope could get their hands on the Hart and Cooley plant.  they would have the space to build something like Benedictine University has in Lisle, IL!  They have an amazing football/track and field/lacrosse/softball/baseball facility.  They hosted the NCAA Softball and Track and Field National Championships this year.  Check it out:

http://www.ben.edu/news/sports_complex/
http://www.ben.edu/news/sports_complex/photo_gallery.asp
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Grutte Dirk on July 21, 2006, 12:52:04 AM
Quote from: oldknight on July 20, 2006, 04:00:57 PM
If you're looking for a non-Hope opinion re: the ongoing debate over Hope's athletic facilities (and even if you're not) I'll offer mine. I think that tniem, FDF, et. al., win over bilk--at least with respect to volleyball and golf.

Agreed, tniem made very solid points re the volleyball venue.  I don't think I commented about golf.

Quote from: SKOT on July 20, 2006, 11:12:01 PM
Hope has RESURFACED the track twice since 1988, but they have still left the high jump, long jump, triple jump and pole vault areas ILLEGAL by NCAA standards.  And, it is still missing a steeple pit. 

Amen.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on July 21, 2006, 09:49:05 AM
Quote from: Bilk on July 20, 2006, 03:49:09 PM
Quote from: sac on July 20, 2006, 02:09:35 PM
Bilk, I don't think you can critisize Hope for its football facility since they don't own it and I'm sure have no control over condition of the field.  The City of Holland owns it and Hope shares it with Holland High.


I don't think I critisized Hope's football stadium, although I do post in my sleep sometimes.

Just to clarify, I am pretty sure I was the one to criticize the football stadium.  And I am well aware of who owns the stadium.  To quote:


QuoteIn fact, arguably, the teams that have had the worse facilities all these years have been M Basketball and Football.

I stand by that, at least if you factor in the popularity of the sports being viewed.  As Trailer Dog rightly pointed out, however, it is clear that track is the most in need of upgrades.  I mentioned baseball and softball, as well and the need for a new pool in the not so distant future.  But I stand by the main point of the original argument I made about volleyball, which is that Hope does care about lesser watched sports and has pretty good facilities across the board. 

Sac, you made a great point about the academic buildings.  Lubbers is currently undergoing a major renovation and Graves will soon follow.  Across the board, pretty nice facilities at my alma mater.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Grutte Dirk on July 27, 2006, 11:34:30 AM
Any truth to the idea of Hope playing "big" volleyball matches during the 2006-2007 season on the main floor with a taped court?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on July 27, 2006, 11:46:04 AM
Quote from: Bilk on July 27, 2006, 11:34:30 AM
Any truth to the idea of Hope playing "big" volleyball matches during the 2006-2007 season on the main floor with a taped court?


Any truth to the idea that you post this stuff just to get a reaction?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Grutte Dirk on July 27, 2006, 03:14:08 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on July 27, 2006, 11:46:04 AM
Quote from: Bilk on July 27, 2006, 11:34:30 AM
Any truth to the idea of Hope playing "big" volleyball matches during the 2006-2007 season on the main floor with a taped court?

Any truth to the idea that you post this stuff just to get a reaction?

Okay, you think I'm provoking . . . . if it's true will you apologize?  I'm not trying to be silly, just putting something out there that I heard.  This is the internet, isn't it?

Regardless, I don't think my question was much to react to, or controversial.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on July 27, 2006, 03:53:44 PM
Quote from: Bilk on July 27, 2006, 03:14:08 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on July 27, 2006, 11:46:04 AM
Quote from: Bilk on July 27, 2006, 11:34:30 AM
Any truth to the idea of Hope playing "big" volleyball matches during the 2006-2007 season on the main floor with a taped court?

Any truth to the idea that you post this stuff just to get a reaction?

Okay, you think I'm provoking . . . . if it's true will you apologize?  I'm not trying to be silly, just putting something out there that I heard.  This is the internet, isn't it?

Regardless, I don't think my question was much to react to, or controversial.

Nothing to apologize for - at least I don't think there is.  I was just ribbing you a little.  ;)

It is interesting if you've actually heard that from a reliable source.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Preto on July 28, 2006, 05:24:00 PM
Quote from: Bilk on July 27, 2006, 11:34:30 AM
Any truth to the idea of Hope playing "big" volleyball matches during the 2006-2007 season on the main floor with a taped court?

Makes sense.  Last fall's the Calvin v. Hope MIAA tourney match packed the Dow Center.  How many can be seated at the DeVos building volleyball court?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on August 18, 2006, 01:07:52 PM
A great story about a scholarship honoring a basketball player's selflessness:

http://www.hope.edu/pr/pressreleases/content/view/full/10516
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: SKOT on August 30, 2006, 02:11:29 PM
Quote from: Bilk on July 27, 2006, 11:34:30 AM
Any truth to the idea of Hope playing "big" volleyball matches during the 2006-2007 season on the main floor with a taped court?

If you can weasel your way into DeVos right now, there is a court taped onto the main floor right now.  It could happen!  You can also see the anchors for the nets in a couple of the photos on the fieldhose website

http://www.hope.edu/pr/campusdev/devos.html#photos
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Grutte Dirk on September 15, 2006, 10:24:47 PM
Quote from: Bilk on July 27, 2006, 11:34:30 AM

Any truth to the idea of Hope playing "big" volleyball matches during the 2006-2007 season on the main floor with a taped court?

Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on July 27, 2006, 11:46:04 AM

Any truth to the idea that you post this stuff just to get a reaction?

Quote from: SKOT on August 30, 2006, 02:11:29 PM

If you can weasel your way into DeVos right now, there is a court taped onto the main floor right now.  It could happen!  You can also see the anchors for the nets in a couple of the photos on the fieldhose website

http://www.hope.edu/pr/campusdev/devos.html#photos

Do ya think I can get the 5 or 6 kamara points back? 

Don't upset the Dutch, they'll smite ya.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on September 19, 2006, 04:50:13 PM
Could it happen - sure, but you'll get no karma from me until they actually play a game on that taped court.  ;D


For all we know, it could just be an extra court for practicing.   ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Grutte Dirk on September 23, 2006, 01:52:23 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on September 19, 2006, 04:50:13 PM
Could it happen - sure, but you'll get no karma from me until they actually play a game on that taped court.  ;D

For all we know, it could just be an extra court for practicing.   ;)

Will you be there Friday, October the 13th?  I cannot believe the Dutch will be pounded like they were at Calvin this week.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Grutte Dirk on September 23, 2006, 01:55:59 AM
Quote from: Preto on July 28, 2006, 05:24:00 PM
Makes sense.  Last fall's the Calvin v. Hope MIAA tourney match packed the Dow Center.  How many can be seated at the DeVos building volleyball court?


Not to be picky . . . it's called the DeYoung Volleyball Gymnasium.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on September 25, 2006, 08:11:55 AM
Quote from: Bilk on September 23, 2006, 01:52:23 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on September 19, 2006, 04:50:13 PM
Could it happen - sure, but you'll get no karma from me until they actually play a game on that taped court.  ;D

For all we know, it could just be an extra court for practicing.   ;)

Will you be there Friday, October the 13th?  I cannot believe the Dutch will be pounded like they were at Calvin this week.

Unfortunately no - so I'll wait to here your analysis.  And I agree that it will be a much tighter match than in GR.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: PrideSportBBallGuy on October 04, 2006, 11:43:10 PM
This might have already been covered, so please get me caught up.   How are the defending National Champs going to do this year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WLCALUM83 on October 05, 2006, 05:51:59 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on September 25, 2006, 08:11:55 AM
Quote from: Bilk on September 23, 2006, 01:52:23 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on September 19, 2006, 04:50:13 PM
Could it happen - sure, but you'll get no karma from me until they actually play a game on that taped court.  ;D

For all we know, it could just be an extra court for practicing.   ;)

Will you be there Friday, October the 13th?  I cannot believe the Dutch will be pounded like they were at Calvin this week.

Unfortunately no - so I'll wait to here your analysis.  And I agree that it will be a much tighter match than in GR.

Heard Tri-State's volleyball team swept Kalamazoo at home last night. That win puts the Thunder right in the thick of the conference race.  ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on October 05, 2006, 08:09:10 AM
Quote from: PrideSportBBallGuy on October 04, 2006, 11:43:10 PM
This might have already been covered, so please get me caught up.   How are the defending National Champs going to do this year.

The graduates will certainly be missed (those Ebels girls were awesome), but that was an extremely deep team last year.  Henderson, Warsen, and Boles are returning starters, and all are juniors (actually Henderson is a senior, but was a medical red-shirt her freshman year, so she has junior eligibility). 

Wood, Jurik, Lange, and Kopke all played significant minutes and will continue to contribute.  The "3rd string " (all freshman last year) played often last year against 1st or 2nd string oppponents and typically still increased leads. 

Then add in that Coach Mo had a great recruiting year with these top notch players:

Jenny Cowens (Dexter HS, Mich.), Philana Green (Grandville HS, Mich.), Megan Mejeur (St. Joseph HS, Mich.)

and things are looking pretty bright for another great year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on October 05, 2006, 02:17:15 PM
Hope will definitely be the pre-season MIAA favorite and perhaps #1 ranked nationally. However, they are losing league co-MVP Bria Ebels, who was the key player in their tournament success. How will that affect team leadership and chemistry?

Calvin's team was almost all freshmen and sophomores last year, with one junior and one senior. Losing Sara Winkle will hurt, but the extra year of experience for the remainder of the team will certainly help. And the word is that Calvin will have a good new player to improve outside shooting.  The final Massey ratings had Hope #1 with power 27.6, Calvin at #26 nationally with power 9.2. Perhaps Calvin will be in the top 25 to start the season, and maybe less than an 18-point underdog to Hope.

Albion ended last year with a Massey power rating of 1. They are losing All-MIAA first-team Jamie Fornettie, who could dribble-drive around almost anyone in the league. Alma (power -1) is losing All-MIAA first-team Darcie Phillip and second-team Katey Peacock. Losing two key players will hurt.

Olivet ended last year with a power rating of -2. They aren't losing any All-MIAA players. St. Mary's (-6) is losing All-MIAA 2nd team Bridget Boyce.

Kalamazoo (power -10) is losing their only all-MIAA player, Stefanie Salasky. Adrian (-11) didn't have any All-MIAA players, so they aren't losing any.

Tri-State ended last year with a Massey power rating of -16. They're losing All-MIAA second team Shanna Hoogenboom (whose name would be right at home on Hope or Calvin's roster). Based on power rankings at the end of last season, they'll be a 43-point underdog to Hope.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Grutte Dirk on October 13, 2006, 10:04:17 PM
Quote from: Bilk on July 27, 2006, 11:34:30 AM
Any truth to the idea of Hope playing "big" volleyball matches during the 2006-2007 season on the main floor with a taped court?

Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on July 27, 2006, 11:46:04 AM
Any truth to the idea that you post this stuff just to get a reaction?

Quote from: Bilk on July 27, 2006, 03:14:08 PM

Okay, you think I'm provoking . . . . if it's true will you apologize?  I'm not trying to be silly, just putting something out there that I heard.  This is the internet, isn't it?
Regardless, I don't think my question was much to react to, or controversial.

Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on July 27, 2006, 03:53:44 PM
Nothing to apologize for - at least I don't think there is.  I was just ribbing you a little.  ;)
It is interesting if you've actually heard that from a reliable source.

Well, I saw the court tonight.  The Calvin v. Hope match was in the DeYoung Volleyball Gymnasium, not on the DeVos Fieldhouse court.

But the basketball court was taped off for volleyball.

Karma for the Flying Dutch Fan.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Grutte Dirk on October 13, 2006, 10:07:08 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on September 25, 2006, 08:11:55 AM
Unfortunately no - so I'll wait to here your analysis.  And I agree that it will be a much tighter match than in GR.

The 3-1 Calvin victory does not tell the tightness of the match.  The Dutch definitely gave Calvin everything they could handle.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Grutte Dirk on October 13, 2006, 10:10:42 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on July 14, 2006, 08:56:04 AM
Maybe so - but then it's not like you get 3400 people out to watch Volleyball.  I will still bet it's the best DIII volleyball court you could find.

While there were not 3400 fans, there were at least 250 people without seating.  We counted 142 standing in the enterance and sitting on the stairs and I was told there were another 150 in a room above the court (big windows and chairs to stand on).

BUT, the fans were loud, louder than it would have been if we'd been in the DeVos.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Oval on October 13, 2006, 11:10:37 PM
Quote from: Bilk on October 13, 2006, 10:07:08 PM
The 3-1 Calvin victory does not tell the tightness of the match.  The Dutch definitely gave Calvin everything they could handle.

First time Hope has lost a competition in the DeVos building.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on October 21, 2006, 05:55:08 AM
So is this the unofficial MIAA volleyball board?

Obviously the knights are doing well, sporting a shiny new 19-1 record. The only tough match they've had in the MIAA ended up as the first victory over a Dutch team at the DeVos in four games.

So how is it that they're ranked #17, when the other four one-loss teams in the AVCA top-25 (http://www.avca.org/collegiate/DIIIpoll/DIIIpoll10-17-06.asp) are ranked one through four? They've even played some ranked competition, beating #13 Witt and losing to #19 Ohio Nothern early in the season.

I suppose there's not much respect nationally for MIAA volleyball. But the tournament this weekend in which Calvin will play four non-MIAA teams should help, especially if Calvin can defeat #10 Central.

Is there some other place with information or discussion about volleyball?

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Wydown Blvd. on October 21, 2006, 10:57:17 AM
Playing "some" ranked competition is not enough to get the team ranked in the top four. Wash U, ranked number two, has wins against eight ranked teams and Division II UMSL (University of Missourri, St. Louis)

(Note: These are the oppenent's rankings at the date of the match)

Their only loss was at #1 Juniata College

Just wanted to throw a comparison out there, although, I agree that Calvin should be ranked higher than #17th.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on October 21, 2006, 07:27:35 PM
Quote from: Wydown Blvd. on October 21, 2006, 10:57:17 AM
Playing "some" ranked competition is not enough to get the team ranked in the top four. Wash U, ranked number two, has wins against eight ranked teams and Division II UMSL (University of Missourri, St. Louis)

(Note: These are the oppenent's rankings at the date of the match)

Their only loss was at #1 Juniata College

Just wanted to throw a comparison out there, although, I agree that Calvin should be ranked higher than #17th.

Well, Calvin defeated four non-MIAA teams this weekend, without losing a game--including a 3-game victory against #10 Central. Maybe enough for the top 10?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Preto on October 21, 2006, 09:55:58 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on October 21, 2006, 05:55:08 AM
So is this the unofficial MIAA volleyball board?


Calvin defeated Central (IA) 30-23, 30-27, 30-25

CSTV/AVCA Division III Top 25 Coaches Poll (http://www.avca.org/collegiate/DIIIpoll/DIIIpoll10-17-06.asp)

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Wydown Blvd. on October 22, 2006, 04:06:39 AM
Dark Night,

Should be enough for a top 10...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on October 23, 2006, 05:07:06 PM
It is time to talk basketball!

Other than Hope again finishing on top, does anyone have MIAA conference ranking predictions?

My rankings are based on last season's second half performances, and what I can gather about returning key players.

1. Hope

2. Calvin

3. St. Mary's

4. Albion

5. Kalamazoo

6. Olivet

7. Alma

8. Adrian

9. Tri-State

Albion did not look like the same team in the second half when Fornetti was limited by injury.  Is there anyone ready to step up and take her place.

It appears that St. Mary's has Kesler, Newsom and Lipke back.  This may be their year to move into the top tier.

In spite of their record, Kalamazoo was a better and more disciplined team under their new coach.  It looks like they have a taller team this year and if the new recruits come through it could be the Hornet's year to move out of the bottom tier.  I'm sure my #5 ranking is not in line with the CW. 

Olivet's effort to jump start the program with JC transfers fizziled in the second half.  Are any of the freshman listed on the pre-season roster likely to make an immediate impact?

Although Hope lost a couple of key performers to graduation, I understand that this year's recruits are very good.  There are even a couple of very sound players (that could be in the rotation for several MIAA teams) that will be getting PT on the JV.  A couple of last year's freshman should be ready to step up and make real contributions this year.

I would like to hear input from around the league so I can start putting together my "scouting reports" - I wouldn't want to enter the season unprepared :).

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on October 25, 2006, 04:05:09 PM
I'm afraid this really has become a volleyball board  :-[ 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bushop on October 26, 2006, 02:20:49 AM
Hope Women's Basketball roster (http://www.hope.edu/pr/athletics/wbb/wbbrost.html)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bushop on October 26, 2006, 02:21:43 AM
Calvin Women's Basketball roster (http://www.calvin.edu/sports/wbasket/roster.htm)

new comers?

04   Rachael Willett       Jr.   6-1   F       Rockford/Rockford
10   Allison Griswold      Fr.   5-5   G       Webberville/Lansing Christian
20   Marissa Walker      So.   5-7   G       Cedar Springs/Cedar Springs
23   Kelly Bennett          Fr.   5-4   G       Williamston/Williamston
24   Nikki Zimmerman   Jr.   5-6   G       Traverse City/Traverse City West
30   Brook VanEck         Fr.   5-9   F       Lowell/Lowell


Looks like Willett and Zimmerman transferred from Grand Valley State and Walker's the only player from last season's JV team.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on October 26, 2006, 06:43:24 AM
Quote from: Bushop on October 26, 2006, 02:21:43 AM
Calvin Women's Basketball roster (http://www.calvin.edu/sports/wbasket/roster.htm)

new comers?

04   Rachael Willett     Jr.   6-1   F       Rockford/Rockford
10   Allison Griswold    Fr.   5-5   G       Webberville/Lansing Christian
20   Marissa Walker      So.   5-7   G       Cedar Springs/Cedar Springs
23   Kelly Bennett       Fr.   5-4   G       Williamston/Williamston
24   Nikki Zimmerman     Jr.   5-6   G       Traverse City/Traverse City West
30   Brook VanEck        Fr.   5-9   F       Lowell/Lowell


Looks like Willett and Zimmerman transferred from Grand Valley State and Walker's the only player from last season's JV team.

I found bios at GVSU's web site for Rachel Willett (http://gvsulakers.cstv.com/sports/w-baskbl/mtt/willett_rachael00.html) and Nikki Zimmerman (http://gvsulakers.cstv.com/sports/w-baskbl/mtt/zimmerman_nikki00.html).

A pair of D-II transfers sounds promising. GVSU has a preseason #2 ranking in D-II. Sad to see that Willett lost an inch of height in the transfer.  ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Oval on October 27, 2006, 10:57:30 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on October 21, 2006, 05:55:08 AM
So is this the unofficial MIAA volleyball board?


Calvin d. Baldwin-Wallace 30-26, 30-25, 30-16

The nationally-ranked Calvin women's volleyball team extended its win streak to 18 matches with a pair of victories Friday night at the Midwest Classic. Ranked 13th in the latest Division III Coaches' poll, Calvin upped its season record to 27-1 with victories over Kalamazoo and Baldwin-Wallace Friday night.

The match against Baldwin-Wallace featured a meeting of nationally-ranked and regionally-ranked teams as the Yellow Jackets came into the match ranked 19th nationally and number-two in the Great Lakes Region. Calvin came into the match ranked number-one in the Great Lakes Region. The Knights are now 4-1 against nationally-ranked teams this year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WLCALUM83 on October 27, 2006, 11:21:53 PM
Just thought I'd give props to Tri-State's women's volleyball team--the Thunder women won the most in-MIAA matches this year since they joined. (Between that success and the FB team's upset win over Olivet, it's been a good athletic week for Angola, IN.) ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on October 28, 2006, 06:24:16 AM
Quote from: WWWRHH on October 25, 2006, 04:05:09 PM
I'm afraid this really has become a volleyball board  :-[ 

Calvin looked really dominant over Bald Wally, especially in that third game when the knights spotted B-W a 5-1 lead and then went on to win 30-16. Calvin's hitting, blocking, digging were all head and shoulders above BW's. Sometimes literally.

The only match Calvin has lost this year was one in which their starting setter, Katie Zondervan, was injured and only played part of the match. Zondervan leads the nation in assists per game, with 14.28, according to the NCAA stats (http://web1.ncaa.org/stats/StatsSrv/rankings?sportCode=WVB) page.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bushop on October 28, 2006, 04:27:15 PM

2006-07 MIAA Women's Basketball Composite Schedule (http://www.miaa.org/wbb/wbbsched.html)
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Oval on October 28, 2006, 04:32:32 PM
Friday
Calvin d. Kalamazoo 30-23, 30-24, 30-23
Hope d. Alma 25-30, 30-22, 30-12, 31-29

Saturday
Hope d. Kalamazoo 30-18, 30-17, 30-19
Calvin d. Alma 22-30, 30-22, 30-25, 30-14
Adrian d. Saint Mary's 30-22, 30-28, 26-30, 30-32, 15-13

That wraps-up the MIAA regular season title for Calvin .... their first since 1999.

Saturday's non-MIAA games:
Hope d. Baldwin-Wallace 30-15, 28-30, 30-27, 30-27
Calvin d. Muskingum 30-17, 30-21, 30-17
Alma d. Wheaton 30-25, 33-31, 30-28
Hanover d. Kalamazoo 30-16, 30-15, 30-18
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: hawk'ster on October 28, 2006, 04:48:32 PM
Calvin was 45 and 4 in the MIAA.  The MIAA web site (http://www.miaa.org/vb/stats/06/confsked.htm) also lists attendence at each match.

The Calvin/Hope matches were watched by 512 (Sep 19 at Calvin) and 700 (Oct 13 at Hope).

2006 MIAA volleyball matches with 200+ attendence:
700 .... Calvin at Hope
512 .... Hope at Calvin
450 .... St Marys at Hope
425 .... Alma at Hope
300 .... Kazoo at Adrian 
300 .... Tri-State at Hope
217 .... Calvin at Alma
205 .... Adrian at Calvin 
200 .... Albion at Hope
200 .... Hope at Adrian
200 .... Olivet at Adrian 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on October 29, 2006, 12:33:40 PM
The knights' 2006-07 season preview (http://www.calvin.edu/sports/preview/winter.htm#wbasket) is up.

Even though the knights had only one senior last year, they have only three returning starters. What became of Charis Larson?

With the added experience, new players, and two GVSU transfers, it sounds as though this team should be at least as strong as last year's team.
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Bushop on November 01, 2006, 02:29:48 PM
Results

MIAA Volleyball Tournament

Monday
Play-in Match - Albion d. Olivet 30-22, 30-21, 30-14

Tuesday
Calvin d. Albion 30-23, 30-11, 30-17
Hope d. Kalamazoo 30-21, 30-21, 30-19
Adrian d. Tri-State 30-16, 30-21, 30-24
Saint Mary's d. Alma 26-30, 22-30, 30-23, 30-28, 15-11
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Bushop on November 01, 2006, 02:32:59 PM
Upcoming Games

MIAA Volleyball Tournament

Friday -- Semifinals at Calvin College
Adrian vs. Hope
Calvin vs. Saint Mary's

Saturday -- Finals at Calvin College
at Calvin regardless of Friday's winner

Title: Re: MIAA women's basketball rankings
Post by: Preto on November 01, 2006, 05:36:13 PM
USA TODAY ESPN DIVISION III TOP 25 COACHES' POLL (http://www.wbca.org/DIIICoachesPoll.asp)

02. Hope College (Mich.)
15. Calvin College (Mich.)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 02, 2006, 10:56:49 AM
D3hoops preseason poll has Hope 4th, and Calvin 13th.  Interesting that Hope had 7 first place votes, and the teams at 2 & 3 have a combined total of 3.  Obviously the voters have quite a difference of opinion on Hope.

A couple of good tests early for Hope, with a potential game against #9 Bald Wally on November 18 at the DeVos, and a game with #5 Wheaton on December 1 at Wheaton.  Wheaton was the only team to defeat the Dutch last year, so that should be a barn burner.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on November 02, 2006, 01:19:22 PM
If I may interrupt this volleyball board ( ;)) with a basketball announcement: The 2006-07 MIAA Coaches' Poll is up and to no one's surprise Hope is first and Calvin second. I was surprised to see that the Lady Knights did get 2 first place votes. Now, this board may return to its regularly scheduled volleyball programing.  :P
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: knightrider on November 03, 2006, 01:07:07 AM
I'm surprised with the rankings also, but I thought that people would look at the Calvin/ Hope matchup to be closer than what they have ranked it if not give Calvin the advantage.  Here is why.  Hope lost a lot of talent and leadership when the lost both Ebels at last years end.  Bria is the biggest loss seeing that Hope has a lot of talent at the post position, but I don't think Hope has a fill in for Bria, just like Calvin didn't have a fill in for Kristen McDonald after she left.  Calvin though is returning three starters- one being the all-american Lisa Winkle.  Combine her with a much improved Marcia Harris and a more experienced back court, the knights are quite threatening.  Plus with the GVSU transfers, one who will up the experience and bring a much needed quality sub in the post, and a guard who brings the shooting ability that haunted the knights last year.  I think this is the biggest key to the new Knights.  Last year teams could sit back and play a zone, which shuts down the paint and forces the outside shot, because the knights didn't have the shooters to shoot them out of the zone.  This year though, with the transfer and more experience in those freshmen from last year, it won't be as easy to just play zone against the knights.  I think that if the knights can gel as a team, you could see them filling hopes national champions shoes this year.  At least this is my take on the situation. 

In regards to Charis Larson, from what I have heard she just didn't work hard enough in the off season to keep her spot.  She has plenty of competition this year for that spot, and with her lack of effort to improve, got past over for someone who is working to improve and is showing that they want to play.  I heard it was a tough situation, but Coach Ross knew that he had to cut some people from last years team to improve the teams talent and how well they play as a team.  Charis was just one of the players that didn't pan out as planned.  And if you look back to last season and how much she produced, it wasn't very much.  And if you compare her sophemore season to her freshmen season, with the obvious understanding that with experience comes improvement, she actually declined in production.  Also, her defense, which was something that gained her time in her freshmen year, declined last year, which doesn't help matters.  So that is why from what I've heard Charis is no longer on the team.

But heres to another fun season, and I look forward to seeing how it pans out.  GO KNIGHTS!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on November 03, 2006, 09:23:11 AM
Quote from: oldknight on November 02, 2006, 01:19:22 PM
Now, this board may return to its regularly scheduled volleyball programing.  :P

Massey came out with computer rankings for women's volleyball (http://mratings.com/rate.php?lg=cvol). Here are the top 20:

  1     Juniata                  32   1   1.168    3.03 (  1)   0.52 (  1) Mid Atl
  2     Washington MO            28   1   1.083    2.65 (  2)   0.48 (  3) UAA
  3     Calvin                   29   1   1.007    2.59 (  3)   0.13 ( 24) MIAA
  4 + 1 La Verne                 27   1   0.887    2.12 (  4)  -0.26 ( 55) SCIAC
  5 - 1 Concordia Mhd            22   1   0.864    2.03 (  5)   0.24 ( 13) MIAC
  6 + 1 WI Eau Claire            26   2   0.768    1.90 (  6)  -0.03 ( 35) WIAC
  7 + 1 WI Oshkosh               32   4   0.765    1.82 (  7)   0.24 ( 14) WIAC
  8 + 4 Wittenberg               30   6   0.703    1.82 ( 8 )   0.39 (  6) NCAC
  9     Hiram                    30   3   0.701    1.67 ( 12)  -0.15 ( 47) NCAC
10 - 4 Carthage                 26   4   0.693    1.78 (  9)   0.14 ( 22) CCIW
11     Baldwin-Wallace          26   6   0.643    1.70 ( 11)   0.38 (  7) OAC
12 + 1 WI Whitewater            29   6   0.617    1.64 ( 13)   0.18 ( 18) WIAC
13 - 3 Trinity TX               27   6   0.612    1.78 ( 10)   0.18 ( 19) SCAC
14     Ohio Northern            27   8   0.606    1.62 ( 14)   0.43 (  4) OAC
15 + 1 Linfield                 18   2   0.546    1.29 ( 17)  -0.29 ( 58) NWC
16 + 1 Emory                    23   9   0.518    1.43 ( 16)   0.48 (  2) UAA
17 - 2 Capital                  24   8   0.511    1.47 ( 15)   0.23 ( 15) OAC
18     Central IA               23   8   0.481    1.26 ( 18)   0.29 ( 10) IIAC
19 + 2 Hope                     22   8   0.473    1.17 ( 20)   0.24 ( 12) MIAA
20 - 1 SW Univ TX               26   6   0.456    1.14 ( 21)  -0.22 ( 51) SCAC


Note that Calvin is #3, which seems to me much more appropriate based on their record than the AVCA's #12. Hope comes in at #19. St. Thomas (MN) is overrated, according to Masey. Otherwise, this computer ranking matches the AVCA poll surprisingly well.

Presumably Calvin has a lower ranking than other one-loss teams because of a schedule that is perceived as weak, but note that their schedule is really very solid, at 24th toughest in the nation. Juniata and Washington's schedules are 1 and 3 respectively, and Concordia is 13th. La Verne's is quite a bit easier than Calvin's, at 55th.
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Bushop on November 03, 2006, 11:45:19 PM
Results

MIAA Volleyball Tournament

Friday -- Semifinals at Calvin College
Hope d. Adrian 26-30, 30-20, 23-30, 30-28, 15-12
Calvin d. Saint Mary's 30-26, 30-27, 30-22

Upcoming Game

Saturday -- Championship at Calvin College
Calvin (31-1) versus Hope (24-8), 4 p.m.


- looks like St Marys gave Calvin a good challenge, three tight games.

Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Bushop on November 04, 2006, 09:09:03 PM
Results

MIAA Volleyball Tournament

Saturday -- Championship at Calvin College
Calvin d. Hope 30-25, 30-27, 27-30, 25-30, 15-10


HOLY DUTCH.....either Calvin is a little down this weekend (see St Marys) or Hope has really stepped-up their game.
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Dark Knight on November 05, 2006, 05:57:59 AM
Quote from: Bushop on November 04, 2006, 09:09:03 PM
Saturday -- Championship at Calvin College
Calvin d. Hope 30-25, 30-27, 27-30, 25-30, 15-10[/font][/size]

HOLY DUTCH.....either Calvin is alittle down this weekend (see St Marys) or Hope has really stepped-up their game.


I don't think this is a "down" result. Even if Calvin were the best team in the nation I'd expect a tight match from Massey #19 and arch-rival Hope, in the MIAA tournament final, competing for the NCAA auto bid.
Title: Re: MIAA Volleyball
Post by: Dark Knight on November 06, 2006, 04:33:15 PM
The NCAA volleyball tournament bracket (http://www.ncaasports.com/volleyball/womens/brackets/viewable/straight64_dyn/2006/DIII) is out. The tournament is done over two weekends, three games this weekend at regionals (Calvin for the Great Lakes), and 3 games next weekend in Salem.

4 of the 8 teams in the Great Lakes regional are ranked in the top 25 by the AVCA. To get a trip to Salem, the highest-ranked team #12 Calvin or Hope might have to face is #11 Wittenberg, whom Calvin defeated 3-1 earlier in the season. To get to the final four, they might have to defeat #7 Trinity (TX).

The Midwest regional is the toughest, with #4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10. #1 Juniata is the only ranked team in the Mid-Atlantic, and there are none in the New England regionals.

Interestingly, for most ranked teams, the AVCA poll position matches the Massey computer ranking pretty closely -- within one position in 8 of 10 cases for West/Midwest teams. Every single ranked team in the South region is overrated, according to Massey, and every single ranked team in the Great Lakes regional is underrated, according to Massey. (Sounds like basketball polls!)

South: #13 Emory should be #16, according to Massey. #17 Austin should be #28. #16 Southwestern (TX) should be #20. #7 Trinity should be #13.

Great Lakes: #11 Wittenberg should be #8. #15 Hiram should be #9. #20 Ohio Northern should be #14. Unranked Hope should be #19. #12 Calvin should be #3.
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Bushop on November 07, 2006, 11:41:29 PM
2006 Volleyball All-MIAA Honors

Most Valuable Player: Kristen Kalb, Calvin
(senior from Stow, Ohio/Stow Munroe Falls HS)

Freshman of The Year: Lorna Slupczynski, Saint Mary's
(freshman from St. John, Ind./Andrean HS)

Defensive Player of the Year: Anne Cusack, Saint Mary's
(senior from Napervile, Ill./Naperville North HS)

Coach of the Year: Amber Warners, Calvin

ALL-MIAA FIRST TEAM
Molly Krikke, Calvin* (junior from Greenwich, Ohio/South Central HS)
Kristen Kalb, Calvin* (senior from Stow, Ohio/Stow Munroe Falls HS)
Katie Zondervan, Calvin*** (junior from Lakewood, Calif./Valley Christian HS)
Abby Sikora, Adrian* (senior from Ceresco/Harper Creek HS)
Deena Van Assen, Hope* (senior from Jenison/Jenison HS)
Lindsey Eshelman, Adrian** (junior from Adrian/Adrian HS)
Anne Cusack, Saint Mary's* (senior from Napervile, Ill./Naperville North HS)
Amber Hoezee, Hope** (senior from Jenison/Jenison HS)
Kelsee Krull, Alma* (senior from Midland/Dow HS)
* denotes number of years All-MIAA first team

ALL-MIAA SECOND TEAM
Nora Slenk, Hope (sophomore from Holland/Holland Christian HS)
Lauren DeGroot, Calvin (sophomore from Tulare, Calif./Central Valley Christian)
Kristen Playko, Saint Mary's (senior from Norwalk, Ohio/Saint Paulís HS)
Lorilyn Vogel, Calvin (senior from Orange City, Iowa/Unity Christian HS)
Kim Gillhespy, Alma (sophomore from Cedar Springs/Cedar Springs HS)
Sarah Slamer, Albion (senior from Battle Creek/BC Central HS)
Sara Morningstar, Adrian (junior from Addison/Addison HS)
Kaylee Sova, Alma (senior from Freeland/Freeland HS)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 09, 2006, 06:18:26 PM
Lisa Winkle and Jordyn Boles made the pre-season AA team.....4th and HM resectively.

http://d3hoops.com/tow/wompreallam07.htm
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WLCALUM83 on November 09, 2006, 08:37:36 PM
NCAA Div III Volleyball Tournament update:

Hope defeated Ohio Northern, 3 games to 1.  ;)

BTW, Wittenberg and Hiram won 3-1, and 3-0 respectively in the other bracket.

NEWS FLASH:  Calvin swept Nazareth, 3-0. Calvin vs. Hope tomorrow.
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Bushop on November 09, 2006, 11:01:58 PM
Friday Semi-Final Matches
Wittenberg vs. Hiram, 4:30 p.m.
Hope vs. Calvin, 7 p.m.

4th time's a charm, Hope wins.
Title: Re: MIAA Volleyball
Post by: WLCALUM83 on November 10, 2006, 08:02:16 AM
Which NCAC team would you rather the Calvin/Hope winner get in the regional final?
Title: Re: MIAA Volleyball
Post by: Dark Knight on November 10, 2006, 08:31:24 AM
Quote from: WLCALUM83 on November 10, 2006, 08:02:16 AM
Which NCAC team would you rather the Calvin/Hope winner get in the regional final?

Calvin beat Witt 3-1 early in the season, the last two games with the score of 30-13. (When the knights are on a roll, they can be scary.) As far as Massey is concerned Witt and Hiram are two peas in a pod. However, recent results could suggest that Hiram has been improving over the season, like Hope.

Interestingly, this will also be a fourth meeting for Witt and Hiram, with Witt taking the two conference matches and Hiram winning a tight 5-game match in the conference tournament.

However, I think Calvin will take the region in two tight matches, breeze past the south region champ, and be competitive in the final four. (Biased? me?)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: SKOT on November 10, 2006, 05:13:50 PM
The Hope/Calvin VB match tonight will be broadcast live.  I wonder how exciting volleyball is on the radio (especially for a rather novice volleyball fan like myself)....

http://www.calvin.edu/sports/ram/calvinsports.ram
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball.
Post by: WLCALUM83 on November 10, 2006, 06:49:49 PM
Wittenberg over  Hiram in a 5-gamer.
Title: Re: MIAA Volleyball
Post by: WLCALUM83 on November 10, 2006, 09:19:56 PM
Calvin over Hope, 3 games to 1.

To quote Yogi Berra:  "Deja vu all over again."
(another Wittenberg/Calvin regional final). :) ;) :D
Title: Re: MIAA Volleyball
Post by: Dark Knight on November 11, 2006, 08:15:47 AM
Yesterday's match between Calvin and Hope had an attendance of 1123. Avca.org has the largest attendance for a DIII volleyball match up through Nov. 8 as 1068 (Wisconsin-Platteville vs. Loras) so last night's match could have had the largest attendance of any match this year.
Title: Re: MIAA Volleyball
Post by: WLCALUM83 on November 11, 2006, 08:32:23 PM
Final volleyball result just in:  Wittenberg 3, Calvin 0.  :-X
Title: Re: MIAA Volleyball
Post by: Dark Knight on November 12, 2006, 07:05:45 AM
Quote from: WLCALUM83 on November 11, 2006, 08:32:23 PM
Final volleyball result just in:  Wittenberg 3, Calvin 0.  :-X

How sad. The knights fell behind early, and then it looked like they were off their normal game, playing tight perhaps. Witt had some excellent blocking, and that also put the knights off their game.

Still, a great season. Congrats to the knights.
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: hawk'ster on November 16, 2006, 11:02:44 AM
2006 AVCA NCAA Division III All-America Volleyball Team (http://www.avca.org/collegiate/DIIIawards/06DIIIAA.asp)

AVCA DIVISION III FIRST-TEAM ALL-AMERICA
Kristen Kalb   Calvin College   OH   Jr.   5-9   Stow, Ohio

AVCA DIVISION III SECOND-TEAM ALL-AMERICA
Molly Krikke   Calvin College   MB   Jr.   5-11   Greenwich, Ohio
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on November 17, 2006, 04:22:44 PM
Basketball season!!

The Calvin women play Johnson and Wales. (?? whoever that is ??)

Hope plays Davenport. (Do they even have a basketball team? I guess they must.)

Albion plays Defiance, 6-20 last year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 17, 2006, 04:55:49 PM
Actually the Davenport womens team is very good.  They made the NAIA national tournament last year with a record of 28-6.
Title: Re: MIAA w basketball
Post by: Harrier on November 17, 2006, 10:12:16 PM
Thanks for the volleyball posts .... but I'd like to see a lot more women's basketball info on the board.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on November 17, 2006, 10:32:38 PM
the hope girls won  tonight    the line up looked really good they are going to be really tough this year  1-0
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: WLCALUM83 on November 17, 2006, 10:41:46 PM
Just to close out the volleyball talk, the Wittenberg team that beat Calvin got down to the Final 4-- only to lose to Juniata for the second year in a row. It'll be a Juniata/Washington-St. Louis final. Heard both of those squads had only one loss each all season. (Just put that in for the volleyball Border Battle fans out there).

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: admittedlydutch on November 18, 2006, 12:09:17 PM
Quote from: hope1 on November 17, 2006, 10:32:38 PM
the hope girls won  tonight    the line up looked really good they are going to be really tough this year  1-0

With two solid starters graduating this past year, I was interested to see what would happen in terms of starters and such.  This women's team is deep -- that was pretty apparent last year as well.  Everyone got off the bench last night against a pretty decent Davenport team (28-5 regular season last year).  The box score says it all: http://www.miaa.org/wbb/stats/0607/1117hodv.htm.  Strong scoring across the board, and no Hope player over 30 minutes of play.

Should be a terrific year...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 18, 2006, 12:52:53 PM
What I found most impressive about the Hope game last night was the fact that the first 4 off the bench were a junior and 3 freshman.  A really talented and really deep team.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on November 18, 2006, 09:01:33 PM
what a good  game today for hope  now  2-0
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: SKOT on November 19, 2006, 03:20:01 PM
The thing that scared me about the Hope games was the 44 turnovers in two games!  They committed 20 against Davenport and 24 against BW.  They will need to clean that up to try and repeat what they did last year!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on November 20, 2006, 09:52:16 AM
SKOT the turnover number does give one pause, but I think there are reasons to expect that number to improve.

A lot of players are still learning the system and getting to know each others game.  Three freshman saw extensive action and in the BW game 2 sophmores and three freshman played the final 5 or 6 minutes of the first half.  (The Dutch shoud be fun to watch for the forseeable future).

The Dutch played very aggressive offense and constantly pushed the ball up court.  Some of the long passes were just out of reach.  The timing will improve with each game.

Something tells me that Coach Morehouse will not except the factors above as reasonable excuses and turnovers will be an issue at practice.  I do not think Hope will alter their style.  We should expect to see a lot of players getting minutes and aggressive offense and defense all the time.

In spite of the turnovers, Hope got past an elite eight team when other ranked teams such as Wheaton and Scranton fell to unranked foes.
Title: Re: MIAA w basketball
Post by: Flea on November 22, 2006, 12:38:14 AM
Quote from: Harrier on November 17, 2006, 10:12:16 PM
Thanks for the volleyball posts .... but I'd like to see a lot more women's basketball info on the board.

Then post it.  I liked having some volleyball stuff while basketball is slow.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on November 22, 2006, 06:46:04 AM
Last night's home opener for the Knights was a big game, against NAIA #14 Aquinas, who already had played 6 games. Both teams came out playing intense defense. In the first 10 minutes of the game, Calvin held Aquinas to 11 points. Unfortunately, in the same time period, Aquinas held Calvin to zero. I don't know that I've ever seen a team go 10 minutes without scoring. And I'm not sure I'd really attribute it to Aquinas' defense, at least not all -- there were several good shots, but nothing was dropping -- literally. 3-point attempts, mid-range jump shots, layups, free-throws, it didn't matter, nothing went in. Calvin missed their first 11 shots, and added 8 turnovers in the first 10 minutes for good measure. Their defense kept them in the game, which was 11-0 at the 10-minute mark.

During the second part of the first half, the knights started to find the mark offensively and it went back and forth for a couple of minutes. Then Calvin went on a 13-2 run for the final 7 minutes of the half, ending with a 3-pointer just before the buzzer, to end up trailing by 3 at the half, 22-19.

In the second half, All-American Lisa Winkle quickly picked up fouls #3 and 4, and she sat most of the rest of the game. Aquinas built their lead back up to 41-30. Then the knights' offense started to get in sync, with good efforts by various knights including freshmen Brook VanEck and Allison Griswold, and transfer Rachel Willet ably filled in for Winkle, playing good defense, scoring 8 points, and pulling down 10 rebounds. She had a couple of nice Aultman-like post moves. The knights scored 51 points in the second half, to Aquinas' 36, and the game ended with the knights on top 70-58.

After starting with 11 misses, the knights ended up hitting a very respectable 22 of 50 field goals, for 44%, including 7 of 14 treys. They made 25 turnovers, but many of them resulted from an apparent attempt to push the ball up court as fast as possible against a full court press. There were numerous half-court passes, many of which didn't find the mark. I'd guess the accuracy of such plays will increase as the season progresses.

Next up is an even bigger test, at DIII #5 Wheaton.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bushop on November 22, 2006, 01:10:25 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on November 22, 2006, 06:46:04 AM

Next up is an even bigger test, at DIII #5 Wheaton.


I don't see Calvin beating the Thunder this season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on November 22, 2006, 07:06:36 PM
Quote from: Bushop on November 22, 2006, 01:10:25 PM
I don't see Calvin beating the Thunder this season.

Any reasoning behind your pronouncement?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bushop on November 22, 2006, 09:53:52 PM
I think Calvin caught Wheaton by surprise last season.  Plus they play in the windy city.  Harris handled the Wheaton post players, I don't think we'll see a repeat of that again either.

What do you think?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on November 23, 2006, 06:14:39 AM
Quote from: Bushop on November 22, 2006, 09:53:52 PM
I think Calvin caught Wheaton by surprise last season.  Plus they play in the windy city.  Harris handled the Wheaton post players, I don't think we'll see a repeat of that again either.

What do you think?

I agree that last year's game seemed to be a bit of an abberation, especially since Wheaton defeated Hope the same weekend. However, Wheaton's high pre-season ranking is based on four returning starters, and one of them hasn't played so far this year due to injury. Two important subs didn't return to the team, and the Wheaton coach says that "depth will be a concern."  Wheaton has already lost by 9 at home to unranked Wilmington.

The knights are better now than they were at this time last year, I think. Last year's back court was all freshmen and sophomores, and this year they all have a year of experience, plus some newcomers to add depth. And based on the Aquinas game, Calvin will play an up-tempo, fast-break offense that will take advantage of Calvin's depth and athleticism.

So, I think Calvin has a good shot at it.
Title: Re: MIAA women's basketball
Post by: Bushop on November 23, 2006, 10:49:33 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on November 22, 2006, 06:46:04 AM

Next up is an even bigger test, at DIII #5 Wheaton.

Quote from: Bushop on November 22, 2006, 01:10:25 PM

I don't see Calvin beating the Thunder this season.

I should write .... until the NCAA tourney.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 28, 2006, 03:00:21 PM
New top 25 is out.  Hope at #2, only 5 points out of first.  Calvin also breaks into the top 10 at #9
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on November 28, 2006, 09:51:44 PM
the  hope girls  won tonight    first game in  miaa  beat  saint marys
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 28, 2006, 11:55:50 PM
I took in the Hope/St.Mary's game tonight which Hope won 67-42.

Boy can those ladies play defense.  They just stiffled the Belles all night.  I believe the score would have been much worse had Hope not struggled to shoot the ball  to start, but StM led 6-2 then Hope held them scoreless for the next 7-8 minutes but Hope really didn't pour in the points either, although it was a 15-0 run.

St Mary's shot under 30% for the game, committed 29 turnovers, 19 of those register as Hope steals.  Their leading scorer averaging 19 a game was held to 10 but had only 3 with 10 minutes to go.

I didn't see a whole lot of last years Hope team but from what I did see there are two glaring differences between last year and this year  1)  they have a distinct lack of 3 point shooters  2)  No Bria Ebels and her basketball shoes full of energy and 5-8 plays a game no other ladie on the floor could make.

Right now their defense is way ahead of their offense which sometimes resembled a jumbled mess, but the defense was sound and quick to double and pressure.

Perhaps the most impressive thing is the 3 Freshman who come off the bench.  All 3 are very solid and sound ball players particularly Cowen and Greene.  As they get better, Hope will get better.  Very impresssed with how well these 3 played D, not something Fr are always adept at doing.


So at least for tonight I was able to satisfy my craving for a good basketball hot dog, felt good to be back in DeVos.


Felt really weird to walk outside into the warmer great outdoors afterwards.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bushop on November 29, 2006, 12:16:12 AM
Has John Ross coached Calvin team ever beaten Hope?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: knightrider on November 30, 2006, 02:36:25 AM
Yes a John Ross coached team has beaten Hope.  It happened in the MIAA tournament in 2005.  Kristen McDonald scored 40 and the knights won by 6.  That was the most recent.  They also beat hope in his first year as coach by 12 in their second meeting during the regular season.  Overall though, Ross coached Calvin teams are 2-6 verse hope.
One thing to remember though is that in all of those meetings you have had Bria Ebels playing for hope, along with Linda Ebels and a lot of the other nucleas of last years championship team.  So going 2-6 against them in that time is actually not that bad.  It will be interesting to see what happens this year seeing that Hope's core of the past couple years has now graduated.  Sac's two differences that he sees in the hope team this year already is what I kind of thought might happen this year.  So I'm excited to see what happens.  Maybe by the end of this year Ross's record vs hope will be 5-6, but here is hoping (no pun intended).
Anyone else have any thoughts about the season at hand? Any predictions?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on December 01, 2006, 09:09:59 PM
WHEATON 49 Calvin 46
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 01, 2006, 11:19:46 PM
The other ladies final

Hope 65 Carthage 51

Should be quit a tilt between Wheaton and Hope tommorrow.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on December 02, 2006, 03:53:38 PM
Calvin over Carthage 83-61, despite 23 turnovers. Carthage didn't have an answer for Calvin's front line, and Calvin shot three-pointers well too.

Lisa Winkle (21 points, 14 rebounds) became Calvin's all-time leading scorer and rebounder in this game. Congrats!


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on December 02, 2006, 07:41:23 PM
As the men stunk it up this weekend, Hope still has the women to cheer for as they defeated Wheaton 83-81 in OT. Congrats ladies on another win against a formidable in-region opponent!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bushop on December 06, 2006, 09:43:15 PM
RESULTS
Wednesday, December 6


Calvin 86, Kalamazoo 58
Saint Mary's 56, Adrian 48
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on December 07, 2006, 09:38:00 AM
The knights only have two more non-MIAA games on the schedule: Puget Sound and Cal Lutheran. Puget Sound will be a challenge, though Calvin should be a slight favorite. Cal Lutheran should be less of a challenge.

I think the CCIW results suggest something close to parity between Calvin and Hope, at least for that weekend: although Hope went 2-0 to Calvin's 1-1, Calvin had a +19 total point differential to Hope's +16. Both MIAA teams did a little worse on Friday (after the long drive) than on Saturday.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Cowman on December 08, 2006, 04:09:45 PM
What do the Knight need to do to challenge this Dutch this season?  I thought Calvin would come out stronger, now I doubt they can stay with Hope for 40 minutes.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on December 08, 2006, 09:18:39 PM
Dark Knight I think your analysis ignores the elephant in the room.  Hope and Calvin have played two common opponents and while both beat Carthage, only Hope beat the stronger team Wheaton.

Point differentials are meaningless - especially when achieved at the expense of a much weaker team.  Carthage is a decent team with three solid players, but not much depth.  Hope played all 15 players and their minutes were much more broadly distributed than Calvin's vs. Carthage.  On Saturday, Carthage played Calvin tough in the first half, but just ran out of steam in second.  The Knights continued to play Winkle and Harris late in the game even after the outcome was a foregone conclusion and Carthage was playing the end of the bench.  Was this strategy employed in an attempt to run up the score or because Calvin lacks depth in the post?

After last weekend I think it is obvious that Hope is much deeper than Calvin.  Against Wheaton, Calvin played ten players, but two made only cameo appearances.  Hope played 11 players vs. Wheaton and none played less than nine minutes (the box score mins are wrong due to an incorrect substitution in the play-by-play).  Over the past couple of seasons Hope has won several games because they were stronger at the finish.  Hope's depth at post is likely to wear on Harris and Winkle over the course of the game.

Calvin is a strong team and I am sure they will give Hope a tough challenge.  But I have to give Hope the edge due their depth, three point shooting and proven ability to come through in the clutch and win close games.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on December 09, 2006, 05:22:39 PM
the hope  girls won today  87 to  57  over tri state at  tri state 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on December 16, 2006, 09:57:16 PM
Calvin defeated Alma 75-50. I didn't see the game but the report is that Alma tried a tight 2-3 zone and double- and triple-teamed inside. That sounds like a good strategy against Calvin, who have a very strong front line and questionable outside shooting.

However, the knights responded with 54.5% shooting from 3-point range, including 7 of 11 for 64% in the second half. Freshman Allison Griswold was 4 for 7 from 3-point range and Kelly Trewhella was 3 for 5. The continued development of a perimeter game to go with the inside game bodes well for the rest of the season! The knights still had 20 turnovers, though.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on December 20, 2006, 09:54:23 PM
hope beat albion tonight  68 to  58
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 20, 2006, 11:56:32 PM
Made it out to DeVos to see the ladies play Albion.  Pretty good action tonight.  A nice crowd of just over 1000......but pretty much a "how ya doing" social crowd.

Albion jumped all over Hope early hitting their first 4 shots before Hope got on the board, then made their fifth to lead 10-2.  Within a couple minutes it was Hope 11 Albion 10.  It was back and forth for a few minutes.......with the score tied at 20, Albion hits back-to-back threes to go up 26-20.  There were more than a few murmurs around the crowd at that point.

Over the final four minutes of the 1st half Hope outscored Albion 14-2 to lead 34-28 I believe, maybe it was 36-28........forget.

So Albion needs to start the 2nd half strong right.......Hope gets the opening inbounds nails a 3, then converts a missed Albion shot into a quick deuce and with 30 seconds Hope has a nice 11 or 13 point lead.  They ran off a run of 21-2 after trailing by 6 to take firm command of this one.

The lead stayed around 15-16 with Albion makeing a couple nice surgess to try and stay in it, those girls never quit.  Albion got it down to 13 with some serious mo and then Philana Greene kind of took over a couple possesions scoreing 5 of 7 Hope points including a beauty of a pick pocket at midcourt..........lead back to 20.

Albion still didn't quit and got it back to 9 before Hope finally put it away.  Hope really tried to keep up a high pace in this one and had several break out baskets in the 2nd stanza.  Albion kind of ran out of gas at the end, as they aren't as deep as Hope.....but who is?.  A nice solid win that extends the Hope win streak to 38 games.

I saw some great post entry passes tonight from both teams and some overall pretty good teamwork.......alot of "extra" passes on the blocks.

Hope won't be happy with the way they played, they were very sloppy with the ball at times, and one of Albion's 6 or 8 points runs in the second was the result of 4 straight posessions with bad passes.  They didn't shoot well overall and were a horrid 12-25 from the stripe.  Its a little scary to think how easily Hope could have won with some better execution.  But surely Albion is to be credited some for their defensive effort.  This is still a developing Hope squad, at one point it was Fr, Fr, So, Jr, Fr on the floor and they extended the lead.


The Hope win streak gets put to a serious test next week when they meet Division II U of Missouri-St. Louis (2-4) down in Hanover, In.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: roaring0506 on December 21, 2006, 08:22:30 AM
I don't think that Hope's win streak will be tested down in Hanover if Hope is as good as everyone thinks.  I've seen the UM-St. Louis team play, and they aren't that good of a team.  They have size, and they're Div. II, but really that's all I can say for them.  There strength is there inside game, and one good three point shooter.  There starters log the majority of their minutes, so Hope's deep bench should wear them down.

Merry Christmas MIAA!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on December 22, 2006, 07:34:21 AM
Some interesting league stats.

Calvin leads the league in FG%, 3FG%, and defense in the same categories. But Calvin is last place in FT% --  ??? 

I didn't expect to see Calvin in first place in 3FG% since that was a weakness last year. Looks like they've corrected it -- for the most part. Season average is .370, but in their loss to Wheaton they shot 2 for 15, for .133.

Calvin also leads the league in assists, turnover margin, steals, and assist/turnover ratio. I didn't necessarily expect that for turnover margin. I guess it results from their stingy defense and high number of steals, since they're tied for last place in turnovers per game!

Calvin also leads the league in scoring margin, which is always nice. But one that surprises me is that Calvin is 5th place in rebound margin and last place in offensive rebounds, despite having the league's top rebounder in Lisa Winkle. Calvin gets 11.3 offensive rebounds per game to league-leading Hope's 17.5. Any theories on why that might be?


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 22, 2006, 08:14:03 AM
Your answer might be in your first sentence.

Quote from: Dark Knight on December 22, 2006, 07:34:21 AM

Calvin leads the league in FG%, 3FG%,
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope7 on December 24, 2006, 09:21:19 AM
merry x mas
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on December 24, 2006, 12:18:23 PM
Quote from: sac on December 22, 2006, 08:14:03 AM
Your answer might be in your first sentence.
Quote from: Dark Knight on December 22, 2006, 07:34:21 AM
Calvin leads the league in FG%, 3FG%,

Good point. However, I don't think that can be the whole answer -- Calvin and Hope's shooting percentages are fairly close at .469 and .453, while offensive rebounding averages are 17.5 and 11.3.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on December 29, 2006, 11:09:07 PM
hope won tonight  82 to  74  over missouri-st louis 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on December 30, 2006, 06:06:27 PM
hope girls won today  78 to 38   ill colledge  to go to  9-0
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 04, 2007, 09:29:19 PM
Nice win for the knights today over a pretty solid Albion team, 84-60. Before tonight Albion's record was 6 and 6, but one of those losses was to #11 Wilmington by 1 point, one to #2 Hope by 8 points, and one to [#26] Puget Sound, by 3.

The knights looked very sharp. There were only about 12 turnovers before garbage time, 24 assists, and 11 of 21 three point attempts. The defense was very tough at times, but there were a few lax stretches.

Compared to last year, the knights have almost of the key pieces plus a number of nice additions who are getting signficant playing time (or starting, in the case of Zimmerman). Should be fun MIAA race!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 04, 2007, 09:48:41 PM
Hope women moved into 3rd place all time for DIII winning streaks (42 in a row) by beating Adrian tonight 82-47. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bushop on January 04, 2007, 10:02:56 PM
SCORES
January 4, 2006

Calvin 84, Albion 60
Olivet 82, Saint Mary's 63
Hope 82, Adrian 47
Alma 73, Tri-State 57
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 05, 2007, 05:27:24 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on January 04, 2007, 09:29:19 PM
Nice win for the knights today over a pretty solid Albion team, 84-60. Before tonight Albion's record was 6 and 6, but one of those losses one to #2 Hope by 8 points,

Not sure where you got 8, Hope won that one 68-56 and Hope led by 20 with 7 minutes to go.

That should be one great matchup next weekend though.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on January 06, 2007, 04:46:14 PM
Calvin in a squeaker over St. Mary's, 53-52.  St Mary's throws a "hail self"  :D off the front rim as time runs out.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bushop on January 07, 2007, 03:27:12 PM
SCORES
January 6, 2007

Albion 86, Tri-State 53
Adrian 65, Olivet 56
Calvin 53, Saint Mary's 52 -- oh my
Kalamazoo 66, Alma 58
Hope 79, Rochester 33
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 07, 2007, 03:52:29 PM
I didn't realize it untill yesterday but it will be possible to watch the Hope/Calvin men's game next Saturday in GR and then pile into a car and head over to DeVos to watch the women's game.

Anyone else plannning on doing this?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Green Hornet on January 07, 2007, 03:58:38 PM
I'm just going to go to the girl's game. Super pumped. I hope the Calvin girls give them a run for their money.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bushop on January 07, 2007, 06:33:29 PM
Quote from: Green Hornet on January 07, 2007, 03:58:38 PM
I'm just going to go to the girl's game. Super pumped. I hope the Calvin girls give them a run for their money.

Calvin seems to be struggling in many ways.  The Knights are going to need to be much more physical to match-up with the Dutch.  I'm afraid Wood will have her way with them just like last season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on January 07, 2007, 07:06:58 PM
sac  me and my kids are planning on doing this i think no  problem the mens game will be done around  4.00   then we are going  straight to the girls game 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 10, 2007, 05:29:48 AM
New Massey power ratings are out. The MIAA is strong -- the fifth-strongest conference.


RankPower
Hope 318.4
Calvin 714.0
Albion782.4
Adrian104-3.1
Olivet161-5.9
St.Mary's136-3.8
Alma165-8.4
Kalamazoo235-15.4
Tri-State268-17.3

The #3 vs. #7 match next Saturday should be a good one -- Massey makes Hope about an 8-point favorite at the DeVos, with home court advantage. However, I agree that Calvin had problems containing Wood last year.

This year maybe they'll have a better strategy. Knock on Wood.  ;)

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bushop on January 10, 2007, 10:21:06 PM
SCORES
January 10, 2007

Alma 77, Adrian 71
Hope 92, Olivet 63
Calvin 79, Tri-State 40
Albion 80, Kalamazoo 42
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on January 11, 2007, 02:35:12 PM
Dark Knight:

I am also looking forward to the game Saturday evening and believe it will be a good one.  Hope needs a challenge because thirty to forty point victories are not great preparation for post-season play.

Post play will certainly be important to the final outcome.  Wood had great success against Calvin last year, but if the Knights will have to do more than stop one player to beat the Dutch.

Hope is a much more balanced team than Calvin.   I have only seen the lady Knights play once this year, but from that brief observation and a review of the statistics they seem very dependent on Winkle and Harris.  Both play a lot of minutes and are the leading scorers.

Hope's minutes and points are more evenly distributed and they are a very balanced team.  The post players have been very productive, but if a team chooses to collapse to the middle and double or triple team inside (as Olivet did Wednessday) Boles and Jurik will make them pay from the outside.  Take away the perimeter and Hope's bigger and stronger post players can dominate the middle.

At the skill level and in three point shooting I have to give the edge to Hope's guards.  In the post I think Hope has a potential advantage with depth, size and better quality bench players.  Wood starts and averages 18 mins/8.5 pts, Lange comes in with 14 mins / 7.2 pts, and Knox fills in with 9 mins / 4.2 pts.  Combined the 5 position has produced 20 pts and 14.3 rbds per game (in 40 avg combined mins).  All three centers are listed at 6'2" and are typically stronger than their opponents.  At the 4 position Warsen and O'Hare contribute 13 pts / 9 rbds per game (in 33 avg mins) and Warsen is a much improved offensive player this year.

I think the game will come down to how effectively Hope's perimeter players shoot and whether Harris and Winkle can contend with better rested, bigger opponents.  If either has foul trouble the advantage will quickly tilt to Hope.  The Dutch centers have shot 117 free throws and made 68% from the line, but Ellen has made 73% of her forty, so it will probably not be a good idea to knock on Wood ;).


 

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on January 11, 2007, 02:51:23 PM
Before someone else points it out, I will correct myself on one point  :(.  Hopefully, it will be my last mistake on this board.

A quick review of the statistics indicates that Calvin has shot the three more often with a little better success than Hope (.388 vs. .378).

It will be interesting to see how each team does versus more intense defensive pressure than they have typically encountered.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 11, 2007, 06:57:00 PM
Hope's Jordyn Boles......26 points in 18 minutes vs Olivet.    Efficient 8)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 13, 2007, 10:18:58 PM
Calvin 60 Hope 57

A congrats to the Knights for snapping the very impressive 44 game winning streak of the Flying Dutch.

Very similar game to the men in that it basically came down to the final 4 or 5 minutes.  Calvin executed, Hope did not.  The difference to me was Calvin's interior defense and in the first half their rebounding.

However the first 15 minutes was simply the worst 15 minutes I've seen an organized team play basketball.  wow

No matter how open the blonde in the fouth row is, its simply not a good pass.........the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th time.   :o


after a Hope FT the score was 7-5 Calvin at the 15:30 mark, 10 minutes later it was 20-11 Calvin but Hope's posessions over that time included and I'm not kidding here...........


1 for 11 shooting including 4 straight misses on one posession, and ELEVEN turnovers and many of those were the passes into the bleacher variety or just simply handing the ball to a player from Calvin.

Despite that stretch Hope somehow stayed within reach and made a game of it in the second half.  However that 15 minutes will haunt them.    The final stats ended up pretty even overall and again it came down to executing down the stretch Calvin did, Hope did not.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Grutte Dirk on January 13, 2007, 10:46:30 PM
I was surprised how quiet the crowd of 2,911 was.  The Hope fans roared after the Dutch got back in the game and took a lead.  I strongly believe that if the crowd had been with the team throughout the game,  Calvin would've been cooked.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Oval on January 14, 2007, 12:00:02 AM
scores
Jan 13

Olivet 75, Alma 63
St Marys 72, Kazoo 40
3State 74, Adrian 69
Calvin 60, Hope 57
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on January 14, 2007, 10:12:47 AM
The agony of defeat....

As a Hope fan it is tempting to blame the loss last night on inconsistent refing in the first half, or bad luck on a couple of close shots that would just not fall.  However, I think that in the end we have to acknowledge that Calvin won because came into the game with a near perfect strategy, and maintained the discipline to execute that strategy when the game tightened. 

Also, Hope's performance in the early minutes of the game once again put them in a hole.  Against a weak team it is possible to recover from early turnovers and one pass and a missed shot offense, but last night there was not enough time to pull it out against a good, disciplined and well coached team.  It would have been nice if the crowd was more into it early, but sometimes you need something to cheer about.

Calvin's Strategy: (Just my impressions as an observer - as coaches say "I haven't yet reviewed the film" :))

Calvin altered the starting lineup in a very surprising way.  Harris was on the bench and Willet started.  The first thing that went through my mind was that Harris must have violated a team rule, but I quickly saw that Ross was determined to keep at least one skilled big player on the court all the time and at the same time create a size mismatch against Hope's relatively small 4 position (power forward) players.  Calvin was content to let Hope's centers get their points by never double teaming in the post as long as they were able to neutralize the 4s, take away the perimeter shot and make it difficult for  Greene and Henderson to drive to the basket.

For the minutes she played and the shots she took, Willet's numbers are not impressive, but her size on defense made a huge difference.  Hope got only 6 pts and 4 rbds from the 4 position.  Calvins big players "stayed home" on defense with there hands high and made driving the basket very difficult.  This allowed the Knights guards to play tough, tight defense on the perimeter and pressure the ball all the time.

On the offensive end Calvin's inside mismatch seemed to pull Hope's guards to the middle to help which opened up the floor for some nice mid-range shots.  I was also impressed with the way Calvin moved the ball.

In the end, the closeness of the final score is a testament to Hope's ability to fight back and play tough defense.  Hopefully, last night is a wake up call for the team to not get in the hole early.

I was impressed with the play of Wood and Lange against the toughest competition they have faced this year.  Perhaps last night's game will give Hope some ideas on how to use its size to greater advantage in the future.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Green Hornet on January 14, 2007, 10:35:57 AM
What a sad loss. Sitting courtside let me see that Hope just expected the win. No intensity. What the heck? They came out flat and Morehouse didn't have them ready. I think their plan was flawed. They have good shooters. Let them shoot. Jordan needs to let the ball fly.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Grutte Dirk on January 14, 2007, 05:07:38 PM
Quote from: WWWRHH on January 14, 2007, 10:12:47 AM
The agony of defeat....

As a Hope fan it is tempting to blame the loss last night on inconsistent refing in the first half, or bad luck on a couple of close shots that would just not fall. 


Looked like both teams missed mutiple bunnies, but please don't hoot about the refs.  Wood and Lange would spend 5-10 seconds in the lane again and again.  There were a few strange calls against both teams in the last ten minutes.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 14, 2007, 08:22:52 PM
Quote from: WWWRHH on January 14, 2007, 10:12:47 AM
The agony of defeat....

Calvin's Strategy:

WWWRHH,

Nice analysis -- thanks. I wasn't at the game, but it sounds very plausible.

One big difference between the knights last year and this is that they trailed the league in 3-point percentage last year, and this year they lead the league. Zone defense or pulling guards toward the middle has not successful this year. The threes weren't dropping for the most part yesterday, but as you say, there were some nice mid-range shots.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 15, 2007, 12:23:30 AM

MIAA.org is reporting the 2911 in attendance set a regular season D3 record for woman's attendance.  So pat yourself on the back if you were in attendance, great crowd and the ladies deserve it.  Hope v Calvin now owns both men and womens  D3 attendance records.

As for the atmosphere, its what you get when you put 2500 comfortable seats in an arena that sits 3500 and the home team plays terrible for 20 minutes. :-\
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 15, 2007, 12:39:14 AM
Read that in the releases on the front page of D3hoops.  ;)

Congrats. Cool records, both.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 15, 2007, 02:09:27 AM
Sac, was that the MIAA record?  Or an NCAA record?

We are looking at 2000-2200 at McMurry vs. HSU on Jan 22nd and the Howard Payne at HSU game may beat that on Thursday the 25th. :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 15, 2007, 02:28:14 AM
The NCAA record book does not list a separate record for regular-season games. Calling it an NCAA record might be a stretch, since it doesn't appear the NCAA would recognize this as a record.

For the record, the release Hope posted on our site doesn't claim it as an NCAA record, so I am not calling them out for this.

Here's what is in the record book:
4,001—Wis.-Oshkosh (68) vs. Mount Union (50), March 16, 1996, at Kolf Sports Center,  Oshkosh, Wis. (NCAA final).
3,512—Wis.-Oshkosh (60) vs. New York U. (37), and Mount Union (71) vs. St. Thomas (Minn.) (57), March 15, 1996, Kolf Sports Center, Oshkosh, Wis. (NCAA semifinals).
3,300—UNC Greensboro (68) vs. Southern Me. (66) and Concordia-M'head (65) vs. St. John Fisher (57), March 19, 1988, at Memorial Arena, Moorhead, Minn. (NCAA third place and NCAA final).
3,154—Hope (94) vs. Edgewood (55), Nov. 19, 2005, at DeVos Fieldhouse, Holland, Mich.
2,850—St. John Fisher (70) vs. Southern Me. (53) and Concordia-M'head (103) vs. UNC Greensboro (66), March 18, 1988, at Memorial Arena, Moorhead, Minn. (NCAA semifinals).
2,550—Capital (72) vs. Wheaton (Mass.) (54) and Washington-St. Louis (86) vs. Wis.-Eau Claire (82) (ot), March 18, 1994, at W.L. Zorn Arena, Eau Claire, Wis. (NCAA semifinals).
2,507—St. Thomas (Minn.) (75) vs. New York U. (51), March 15, 1996, at Kolf Sports Center, Oshkosh, Wis. (NCAA third place).
2,500—UNC Greensboro (55) vs. Luther (52), March 11, 1988, at Regents Center, Decorah, Iowa (NCAA quarterfinal).
2,300—Capital (82) vs. Washington-St. Louis (63), March 19, 1994, at W.L. Zorn Arena, Eau Claire, Wis. (NCAA final).

Note the game in bold -- why is that game different? The NCAA recognizes men's/women's doubleheaders.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 15, 2007, 10:31:17 AM
Here's the link to miaa.org (http://miaa.org), you can read what they said and see a nice picture of the evening's event.

I think the MIAA (and truth be told the Hope SID since he runs the site) was trying to diferentiate the game as purely a regular-season women's event.  In other words there was no other draw.

At the very least its a regular season record since all those that Pat lists are NCAA tournament games, except the Hope men and women double header, which was also a special night in that it was opening night of DeVos Fieldhouse.  This was simply a regular season game between two rivals.

I thought it was awesome to see a great crowd give the women equal treatment in the Hope/Calvin rivalry.  Something that was always difficult to do with the men typically playing at the same time and in Hope's case the women  played in a different and overall poor facility before last year.

7,500 people watched a Hope v Calvin game Saturday in 2 different locations, and thats not even counting the TV audience for the men's game. 

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 15, 2007, 12:47:32 PM
Ehh, yeah, but it's kind of a fake record in the NCAA mind-set, though. It's taking the NCAA record and then applying two separate asterisks to it.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 15, 2007, 01:53:37 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 15, 2007, 12:47:32 PM
Ehh, yeah, but it's kind of a fake record in the NCAA mind-set, though. It's taking the NCAA record and then applying two separate asterisks to it.

I can see where your coming from, but why does the NCAA recognize a men's/women's double-header for attendance.  That seems a  little disingenuous to the ladies.

Last year Hope had another double-header and the ladies got credit for an attendance of about 2800 which was also the men's attendance.  There weren't 1000 people at that game untill the final minute.

To me that attendance would be more fake than a legitimate women's only game  drawing almost 3,000 people.

Kind of strange I guess.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 15, 2007, 05:35:43 PM
Quote from: sac on January 15, 2007, 01:53:37 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 15, 2007, 12:47:32 PM
Ehh, yeah, but it's kind of a fake record in the NCAA mind-set, though. It's taking the NCAA record and then applying two separate asterisks to it.

I can see where your coming from, but why does the NCAA recognize a men's/women's double-header for attendance.  That seems a  little disingenuous to the ladies.

Last year Hope had another double-header and the ladies got credit for an attendance of about 2800 which was also the men's attendance.  There weren't 1000 people at that game untill the final minute.

To me that attendance would be more fake than a legitimate women's only game  drawing almost 3,000 people.

Kind of strange I guess.

The NCAA's record book says a doubleheader can be counted for women's attendance if a separate attendance count is taken by halftime of the women's game. Were there 3,154 in the building by halftime? After all, it was the much-awaited opener of a spectacular new building. But people on this board would know better than I.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 15, 2007, 08:02:46 PM
I personally wasn't at that game so I don't know.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 15, 2007, 08:33:05 PM
There was an interview with Calvin's coach John Ross on Hoopsville. You can listen at  http://www.d3hoops.com/audio/07/hoopsville11407a.mp3. The interview appears just over half way through the program.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 16, 2007, 11:40:20 AM
Quote from: sac on January 15, 2007, 08:02:46 PM
I personally wasn't at that game so I don't know.

I was, and IIRC everyone was pretty much there right from the start.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 16, 2007, 04:46:41 PM
The new d3hoops.com Top 25 is out. Hope dropped from #2 to #4 and Calvin climbed from #11 to #8.

The latest Massey rating (http://mratings.com/rate.php?lg=cbw&sub=III&mid=1) has it the other way around, with Calvin #2 behind Howard Payne, and Hope at #7!

Calvin, #2
Hope, #7
Albion, #74
St. Mary's, #134
Olivet, #145
Alma, #168
Adrian, #169
Tri-State, #231
Kalamazoo, #247

The Massey rankings listed above are based on past results and difficulty of schedule as well as power. To predict future games, you look only at the power rating, and there Hope is slightly ahead.

But only slightly -- on a neutral court, Hope would be an 0.2-point favorite!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on January 16, 2007, 06:50:16 PM
Dark Knight:

I am already looking forward to the next match up.  I expect it to be at least as exciting as last Saturday's game.  Calvin is a better team than last year and probably the only one that will seriously challenge Hope until the playoffs.

When these two teams meet, comparable point spreads, power rankings and polls do not mean a lot - both have the ability to blow the game open if they execute well and the other team is not prepared to play.

I hope the Dutch finally learned they have to start the game with some intensity if they want to remain successful.  They may be able to turn it on and recover from an uninspired start and still win by 30 against most teams on the schedule, but it is not going to happen against a very good team with something to prove.

Who knows, Hope may even show something a little different than the standard game plan and rotation if it is necessary to counter Calvin's strengths and strategy. 

February 10 can not come too soon.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Oval on January 18, 2007, 09:12:24 PM
scores
Jan 17

Calvin 87, Olivet 63
Tri-State 82, Kalamazoo 71
Hope 69, Alma 46
Albion 71, Saint Mary's 68 (OT)

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Oval on January 20, 2007, 05:11:31 PM
scores
Jan 20

St Marys 84, Adrian 72
Calvin 85, Kazoo 67
Olivet 56, 3State 50
Albion 82, Hope 75
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 20, 2007, 05:18:21 PM
What happened?!?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: billgull on January 20, 2007, 09:56:09 PM
http://www.albion/edu/sports/ (http://www.albion/edu/sports/)

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: atn alum on January 21, 2007, 05:23:13 PM
I joked to our publisher that I should auction my top 25 first-place vote off this week?

I have no idea who to pick, from among 7 to 8 deserving teams...

Anyone with a good argument as to why I should give Calvin a big bump up?

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 21, 2007, 06:42:34 PM
Quote from: atnwriter on January 21, 2007, 05:23:13 PM
Anyone with a good argument as to why I should give Calvin a big bump up?

I'd be a little forgiving of Calvin for their early-season 3-point loss at Wheaton. They have a couple of freshmen and two transfers who are getting lots of minutes, and it takes time to fit them into the rotation and teach them their roles. 

Those new players are settling in and the team is playing stronger now. Their offense runs through a powerful front court including Harris and all-American Winkle. Last year this gave them a legitimate top-15 team, ending at #14 in the d3hoops.com poll. The big difference with this team (besides an added year of experience) is outside shooting. Last year it was pretty poor, last in the league; this year their three-point percentage is something like 6-th best in DIII, thanks to the new players and the added year of experience.

That said, I don't see much on the results sheet to separate the top few teams. Massey Ratings have Howard Payne as a strong #1, well above the rest--but they've played one of the weakest schedules of the top teams and no ranked competition. The remainder of the top teams are pretty close, with Calvin at #3. However, Calvin has played the toughest schedule of the top 8, according to Massey, and as far as I can tell, Calvin is the only team of the top 8 with two wins against ranked competition.

Sill, I'm glad I don't have to try to put them in order!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 22, 2007, 07:33:30 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on January 20, 2007, 05:18:21 PM
What happened?!?


I saw the first Hope/Albion game in Holland, in that one the Britons got a quick early lead and played with Hope right up to the end of the first half.  The Britons got in some foul trouble, namely one of their two big girls, Hope went on a nice run to lead by 20.  But Albion played Hope even or a little ahead for about 25 minutes of that game and they didn't shoot particularly well.

It was obvious last week that Hope is going through a little bad spell, in the course of the season your likely to hit one or two, they just weren't good enough to overcome a very poor stretch of basketball vs a very good Calvin team and generally seemed out of synch on offense. 

Calvin had a poor game vs St. Mary's and pulled out a win, Hope didn't at Albion its those kinds of games that often separate Champions from runner ups.

Hope/Calvin should get at least 2 more shots at each other and they should be very good games, they matchup very well and there really isn't much difference in overall personel.


PS Knights got a nice jump in the poll as they should, Hope took a big tumble to 11.  The differences in the men's and women's poll is pretty striking, there are alot of really good records on the women's side and not much to separate teams.  While on the men's there are quite a few teams with multiple losses.......maybe a lot of reputation voting, team and league.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 22, 2007, 09:22:34 PM
Quote from: sac on January 22, 2007, 07:33:30 PM
PS Knights got a nice jump in the poll as they should, Hope took a big tumble to 11.  The differences in the men's and women's poll is pretty striking, there are alot of really good records on the women's side and not much to separate teams.  While on the men's there are quite a few teams with multiple losses.......maybe a lot of reputation voting, team and league.

Women's basketball isn't as competitive as men's -- there is more spread between the top teams and the bottom teams. The top teams in women's basketball always seem to have one or two, or at most three losses, while top teams in a men's conference such as WIAC or CCIW can have five or six at the end of the year.

I agree that Hope's women's team is still top notch and could even repeat if they peak at the right time, like they did last year. However, it's very hard to keep the same keen edge of hunger -- and get the breaks that a championship run takes -- two years in a row.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 22, 2007, 09:30:58 PM
.........and do it without Bria Ebels. ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Oval on January 24, 2007, 10:27:40 PM
scores
Jan 24

Hope 91, Tri-State 56
St Marys 66, Alma 58
Adrian 63, Kazoo 55
Olivet 47, Albion 34
Calvin 99, Rochester 36 (non-MIAA)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 25, 2007, 01:58:54 AM
Hope inserted Fr. Philania Green into the starting lineup tonight, while I'm not sure it had a big impact tonight, its possibly gotten the ladies attention some.

Tri-State might be the youngest college team I've ever seen, they have 10 Freshman on the roster.  Seems like 3 or 4 started, with a Soph.

The first half probably resembled Hope's last outing with Albion in some ways, though I can't be sure not having seen that game.  However I got the sense Hope found  a little something in the 2nd half on offense and defense and really dominated the Thunder.

Maybe they'll catch a little momentum and get out of their malaize in the next week or so.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 25, 2007, 01:21:49 PM
The knights had a 99-36 victory over a very weak Rochester (MI) team last night, but the game wasn't as close as the score would suggest.

The score was 58-19 at halftime. Apparently Ross told them to cool it a bit, because the knights didn't go for any fast break points in the second half and they toned down the intensity. The starters played an average of 10 minutes, first half only.

Calvin had possession right near the end of the game with 97 points, and the fans cheered loudly for a three-point attempt, but the players wouldn't go for it.

I'm not sure how much this game helped the knights--and I'm not sure the that scoring lots of points against the MIAA's last-place team constitutes momentum building for Hope, either.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on January 25, 2007, 05:21:10 PM
Very classy job last night by coach John Ross.  Not only did he refuse to let them go for the century mark (a lesson for GVW), but he also noticed early on that the opponent was inferior and managed the game accordingly.  The starting five players averaged on 10 minutes of playing time while all of the reserveds played and averaged 21 minutes of playing time.  Very classy!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 26, 2007, 09:06:29 AM
The Knights are 4th in the nation in 3-point field goal percentage as of 1/21, at 38.5%, but they don't have any players showing up in the NCAA's top-50 list.

That's because they have three outstanding shooters, not just one or two, and none of them takes enough 3-point shots to show up in the list! You need two scores per game to be shown.

Freshman Allison Griswold leads the Knights (and the MIAA) at .492, on 31 of 63 attempts. Brummel and Zimmerman aren't far behind, at .448 and .444.  If they had a few more shots, they'd be 4th, 12th, and 14th in the nation, respectively.

If Griswold can hit 5 treys in her next game, she'll show up on the list. If she goes 5 of 8 or better, she could lead the nation.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 26, 2007, 05:04:10 PM
Quote from: wizardry on January 25, 2007, 05:21:10 PM
Very classy job last night by coach John Ross.  Not only did he refuse to let them go for the century mark (a lesson for GVW), but he also noticed early on that the opponent was inferior and managed the game accordingly.  The starting five players averaged on 10 minutes of playing time while all of the reserveds played and averaged 21 minutes of playing time.  Very classy!

Of course - everything Calvin is always so much more classy than anything Hope.  Give me a break.  You're talking about one game that the Lady Knights have had this kind of a blow out.  Hope's men have had 5 or 6 in their last 7 games.  At some point you have to not just be concerned about the feelings of the other team - you have to keep your team ready to play the tough games. 

The other thing you'll find is that in most cases, the team on the losing end of a blowout is less embarrased by everyone just playing out the game, than they are by being "protected".  There are of course exceptions, and I think every coach in the MIAA handles that well.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: admittedlydutch on January 26, 2007, 10:19:39 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on January 26, 2007, 05:04:10 PM
Quote from: wizardry on January 25, 2007, 05:21:10 PM
Very classy job last night by coach John Ross.  Not only did he refuse to let them go for the century mark (a lesson for GVW), but he also noticed early on that the opponent was inferior and managed the game accordingly.  The starting five players averaged on 10 minutes of playing time while all of the reserveds played and averaged 21 minutes of playing time.  Very classy!

Of course - everything Calvin is always so much more classy than anything Hope.  Give me a break.  You're talking about one game that the Lady Knights have had this kind of a blow out.  Hope's men have had 5 or 6 in their last 7 games.  At some point you have to not just be concerned about the feelings of the other team - you have to keep your team ready to play the tough games. 

The other thing you'll find is that in most cases, the team on the losing end of a blowout is less embarrased by everyone just playing out the game, than they are by being "protected".  There are of course exceptions, and I think every coach in the MIAA handles that well.

Have to agree with Flying Dutch -- when the third string is in for the last 8 minutes of every game, they should really try not to score. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on January 27, 2007, 09:48:17 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on January 26, 2007, 05:04:10 PM
Quote from: wizardry on January 25, 2007, 05:21:10 PM
Very classy job last night by coach John Ross.  Not only did he refuse to let them go for the century mark (a lesson for GVW), but he also noticed early on that the opponent was inferior and managed the game accordingly.  The starting five players averaged on 10 minutes of playing time while all of the reserveds played and averaged 21 minutes of playing time.  Very classy!

Of course - everything Calvin is always so much more classy than anything Hope.  Give me a break.  You're talking about one game that the Lady Knights have had this kind of a blow out.  Hope's men have had 5 or 6 in their last 7 games.  At some point you have to not just be concerned about the feelings of the other team - you have to keep your team ready to play the tough games. 

The other thing you'll find is that in most cases, the team on the losing end of a blowout is less embarrased by everyone just playing out the game, than they are by being "protected".  There are of course exceptions, and I think every coach in the MIAA handles that well.

I assume FDF's comment that there was "one game that the Lady Knights have had this of kind of blow out" is just hyperbole intended to make a point because a comparison of statistics doesn't quite support that statement. For the entire season Hope's men have outscored their opposition by a margin of 17.7 points per game (80.9 to 63.2) while Calvin's women have outscored their opponents by 22 points per game (74.1 to 52.1). To be fair to your comment I will say that Hope's men have had a couple more "blowout" wins than has had Calvin's women. If we use a win by 25 or more points as the accepted definition then Hope has had seven blowout wins and Calvin five. If we use 35 point wins as the accepted definition of a blowout then the two teams are even with three apiece.

Blowout wins are always problematic for the winning coach and they're why almost all coaches hate them. I think almost all coaches are sensitive to the fact that we need to show respect for opponents and the need to do that is even greater when the opponent is suffering through a really bad game. The winning coach wants his kids to play hard  without causing further embarrassment to the losing team and finding creative ways to accomplish those twin goals is no easy task.

Although winning big does have the advantage of allowing you to rest your key players and it allows coaches to give their subs major minutes, it compels coaches to find ways to keep the score down by not doing things their players are trained to do in practice and most other games. These include things like not pressing, not double teaming the ball and not looking to run the break. The winning coach will typically tell his kids to play hard--as if it's still a close game--but when players realize they are not allowed to utilize the full range of offensive and defensive options they ordinarily prepare to use in games it leads to inevitable on-the-court sluggishness. In the long run this isn't good for the winning team because it leads to bad habits, particularly a loss of game intensity and intensity isn't a quality that can be turned on and off like a water faucet. Players think it can but years of observation have led me to conclude that it can't. It takes time to work your way up to peak intensity and when you come down from that mountain it takes time to climb back up to the top. Therefore when you do get into a scrape with a quality opponent who has started the game with maximum intensity--and you haven't--you find yourself in a dogfight.

This is why blowout wins are poor preparation for the tough games you inevitably will have down the road. Add to that the fact that coaches have to suffer through the inevitable criticism that they merely are unnecessarily embarrassing an opponent and you can see why they hate these kinds of games. Having said all that I do think a coach does need to rein in his players and instruct them not to do anything that could arguably be seen as showing up the losing side. When the winning side winds up with a breakaway late in a blowout win I'm always far more impressed with the player who simply lays it in softly off the glass rather than calling attention to himself and soaring in for a monster slam. A dunk in a 40 point win may make the home crowd happy and be seen by the winning side as "all in good fun" but to me it takes some of the luster off the win and exudes a certain classlessness.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on January 27, 2007, 11:17:31 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on January 26, 2007, 05:04:10 PM
Quote from: wizardry on January 25, 2007, 05:21:10 PM
Very classy job last night by coach John Ross.  Not only did he refuse to let them go for the century mark (a lesson for GVW), but he also noticed early on that the opponent was inferior and managed the game accordingly.  The starting five players averaged on 10 minutes of playing time while all of the reserveds played and averaged 21 minutes of playing time.  Very classy!

Of course - everything Calvin is always so much more classy than anything Hope.  Give me a break.  You're talking about one game that the Lady Knights have had this kind of a blow out.  Hope's men have had 5 or 6 in their last 7 games.  At some point you have to not just be concerned about the feelings of the other team - you have to keep your team ready to play the tough games. 

The other thing you'll find is that in most cases, the team on the losing end of a blowout is less embarrased by everyone just playing out the game, than they are by being "protected".  There are of course exceptions, and I think every coach in the MIAA handles that well.

So, you don't think the actions of John Ross were classy?  It was a week where two teams appraoched the century mark.  One coach did it right, the other allowed it to go another way.  I just think John Ross is a class act and it showed in his actions.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 27, 2007, 02:03:27 PM
Quote from: wizardry on January 27, 2007, 11:17:31 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on January 26, 2007, 05:04:10 PM
Quote from: wizardry on January 25, 2007, 05:21:10 PM
Very classy job last night by coach John Ross.  Not only did he refuse to let them go for the century mark (a lesson for GVW), but he also noticed early on that the opponent was inferior and managed the game accordingly.  The starting five players averaged on 10 minutes of playing time while all of the reserveds played and averaged 21 minutes of playing time.  Very classy!

Of course - everything Calvin is always so much more classy than anything Hope.  Give me a break.  You're talking about one game that the Lady Knights have had this kind of a blow out.  Hope's men have had 5 or 6 in their last 7 games.  At some point you have to not just be concerned about the feelings of the other team - you have to keep your team ready to play the tough games. 

The other thing you'll find is that in most cases, the team on the losing end of a blowout is less embarrased by everyone just playing out the game, than they are by being "protected".  There are of course exceptions, and I think every coach in the MIAA handles that well.

So, you don't think the actions of John Ross were classy?  It was a week where two teams appraoched the century mark.  One coach did it right, the other allowed it to go another way.  I just think John Ross is a class act and it showed in his actions.

Not trying for the century mark at the end of the game was definitely classy, but telling the players not to go for the fast breaks is a more difficult judgment call, for all the reasons oldknight mentioned. Don't want them to practice bad habits, and it's also not clear that the opponent will feel better knowing they didn't play their hardest.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Oval on January 27, 2007, 05:16:42 PM
MIAA scores
Saturday Jan 27

Saint Mary's 83, Tri-State 66
Calvin 67, Adrian 46
Hope 101, Kalamazoo 53
Albion 68, Alma 55
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 31, 2007, 02:35:28 PM
I do believe that Lisa Winkle passed the 1,500 point career mark on saturday.  No listing on the D3hoops milestone page though...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 31, 2007, 04:31:49 PM
Key game for the Knights tonight at Albion, ranked as the third-best MIAA team and #55 in the nation by Massey. They've been playing well lately, except for the hangover loss at Olivet.

The knights come in ranked #3 by both major polls, with Hope at #4 in the coaches' poll.

Calvin is currently #1 in the nation according to Massey, but then Massey thinks that Calvin has a 63-point win against Rochester, NY. I'm a frayed knot.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 31, 2007, 05:34:07 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on January 31, 2007, 04:31:49 PM
They've been playing well lately, except for the hangover loss at Olivet.

Huh?  Calvin beat Olivet by 24
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 31, 2007, 06:57:16 PM
Quote from: sac on January 31, 2007, 05:34:07 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on January 31, 2007, 04:31:49 PM
They've been playing well lately, except for the hangover loss at Olivet.

Huh?  Calvin beat Olivet by 24

Albion's hangover loss, after the victory against Hope. They shot something like 20%.

Massey says Calvin 67 Albion 57, by the way.


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Oval on January 31, 2007, 09:30:12 PM
MIAA scores
Wednesday Jan 31

Calvin 75, Albion 65
Hope 87, Adrian 53
Saint Mary's 81, Olivet 72
Alma 71, Tri-State 65
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 01, 2007, 04:04:23 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 31, 2007, 02:35:28 PM
I do believe that Lisa Winkle passed the 1,500 point career mark on saturday.  No listing on the D3hoops milestone page though...

E-mail is more effective than a sniping post on a board I might not read for days, Slappy.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 01, 2007, 11:10:44 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 01, 2007, 04:04:23 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 31, 2007, 02:35:28 PM
I do believe that Lisa Winkle passed the 1,500 point career mark on saturday.  No listing on the D3hoops milestone page though...

E-mail is more effective than a sniping post on a board I might not read for days, Slappy.

I was actually hoping for confirmation from someone on this page before I emailed it, Pat.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 03, 2007, 09:18:19 AM
Calvin is playing St. Mary's today, and I'll be curious to see how the game goes, since in their prior meeting down in Indiana, Calvin escaped with a one-point victory, 53-52. SMC didn't ever have the lead after the first minute of the game, and they were down 13 early in the second half. They were down 7 with 3 minutes to go. With 3 seconds to go they were down two and had a pair of free throws. Make, miss. Sounds like a valiant comeback attempt that fell just short.

Calvin didn't shoot as well as usual in that game, at .375 (.214 of three-pointers), but SMC was worse at .278. It sounds as though it was a defensive battle.

The stat that jumps out at you is rebounding, though. SMC had 45 rebounds to Calvin's 31. SMC had 14 offensive boards on 39 missed shots to Calvin's 3 offensive boards on 30 missed shots. Overcoming that kind of a rebounding deficit takes some doing!

Massey says it'll be Calvin 77-56, but I'd guess it'll be closer than that.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: knightrider on February 03, 2007, 11:31:33 AM
The Calvin St Mary's game has been cancelled do to the snow, just for everyones information.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Oval on February 03, 2007, 09:33:37 PM
MIAA scores
Saturday Feb 2

Olivet 69, Adrian 62
Alma 56, Kalamazoo 47
Albion 83, Tri-State 53
Saint Mary's at Calvin, ppd (makeup Monday, 6 p.m.)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Oval on February 05, 2007, 10:23:01 PM
MIAA scores
Monday Feb 5

Calvin 75, Saint Mary's 44
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 05, 2007, 10:33:06 PM
Calvin 75 St. Mary's 44. This game was all Calvin with all 14 players getting time and no one playing more than 20 minutes. Calvin shot .429 to SMC's .219. SMC wasn't able to handle Calvin's defensive pressure, and Calvin looked poised and confident and made some nice plays.  17 points for Harris in 18 minutes, and 13 rebounds for Winkle.

Calvin did much better on the boards this game, but SMC still outrebounded the Knights 46-42, and picked up 24 offensive boards on their 50 missed shots, to Calvin's 13 offensive boards on their 32 missed shots. I saw SMC players get into position to rebound offensively and even box out offensively when a teammate took a shot, and I didn't see as much of that from Calvin.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ziggy on February 07, 2007, 11:20:41 PM
First set of regional rankings:
Great Lakes
1 Calvin 12-0 18-1
2 DePauw 12-2 19-2
3 Denison 17-2 19-3
4 Wilmington 16-3 18-3
5 Hope 13-2 18-2
6 Baldwin-Wallace 16-4 17-4
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Oval on February 08, 2007, 09:43:35 AM
MIAA scores
Wednesday Feb 7

Calvin 58, Tri-State 44
Hope 78, Olivet 70
Alma 69, Adrian 65
Albion 83, Kalamazoo 37
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Preto on February 08, 2007, 12:30:35 PM
Quote from: ziggy on February 07, 2007, 11:20:41 PM
First set of regional rankings:
Great Lakes
1 Calvin 12-0 18-1
5 Hope 13-2 18-2


Homecoming or not, I think Calvin is ready to fall.  Hope's second loss was a carryover from the Calvin loss in DeVos.  The Dutch will come out and overwhelm the Knights in the first 10 minutes.  The question will be if Calvin can recover.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 08, 2007, 03:19:29 PM
Quote from: Preto on February 08, 2007, 12:30:35 PM
Quote from: ziggy on February 07, 2007, 11:20:41 PM
First set of regional rankings:
Great Lakes
1 Calvin 12-0 18-1
5 Hope 13-2 18-2


Homecoming or not, I think Calvin is ready to fall.  Hope's second loss was a carryover from the Calvin loss in DeVos.  The Dutch will come out and overwhelm the Knights in the first 10 minutes.  The question will be if Calvin can recover.

Based upon Calvin's apparently indifferent perfomance last night against a weak Tri-State squad (3-18) I can understand why you might make that claim. But I saw most of Hope's win last night over Olivet and the better team in that game looked pretty uninspiring too. Makes you wonder if each team was looking ahead to Saturday.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: David Collinge on February 08, 2007, 04:18:38 PM
Hey Oldknight,
Put down your latest Kronenmeyer sister and come over to the women's NCAC room for a quick cup of coffee.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 08, 2007, 09:21:52 PM
Quote from: Preto on February 08, 2007, 12:30:35 PM
Homecoming or not, I think Calvin is ready to fall.  Hope's second loss was a carryover from the Calvin loss in DeVos.  The Dutch will come out and overwhelm the Knights in the first 10 minutes.  The question will be if Calvin can recover.

I don't know what to think about this game. I think this must be sort of like what the fans of the Dutchmen felt two days ago: they ought to win, they won on the road a couple of weeks ago, but who knows...

I think the big risk for the Dutch is to focus too much on Winkle and Harris and get burned by Calvin's outside shooting. You have to be able to defend the paint without double teaming or (heavens) playing a zone. Or catch the knights on a cold night, e.g. 2-15 from behind the arc against Wheaton.

Massey gives Calvin about a 6-point advantage at Knollcrest, but that's not too far from a tossup.

In any case, it's obviously a huge game for bragging rights but a game unlikely to have post-season implications.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: knightrider on February 08, 2007, 11:49:39 PM
I think saturday's game comes down to if calvin can take hope out of their rhythm like they did a couple weeks ago.  The biggest factor a couple of weeks ago is that hope had zero penitration by the guards and Calvin was able to hold hopes posts from creating too much damage.  If Calvin is able to do the same thing, (i.e. shut down Wood, Lange, Warsen) I think they win the game.  Hope I don't think has replaced Bria Ebels yet and that is the big difference between last year and this year.  Hope had a slashing guard that made teams work against the perimeter, which opened up the inside more.  This year, teams can gamble a little bit more with the perimeter players and concentrate more on the inside, and thus compete with Hope.  Both Hope losses attest to guard play as being the difference, just look at Boles shooting percentage against Albion. 
Any way you look at it, I think it is going to be a great game, in front of a great crowd (that could set the regular season women's D3 attendance record again).  It will be fun.  See you all there.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 09, 2007, 06:17:48 AM
knightrider, thanks for the post. Very interesting and informative. Gives me an idea of what to look for at the game.

Since this is a homecoming game, most people got tickets in advance. Does anyone know how many tickets have been distributed?

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 09, 2007, 08:30:28 AM
I just learned that the same ticket will get you in to the men's and women's double header, with the women's game at 12:45 and the men's game at 3:00.

Do the NCAA rules state that the total number of tickets sold is counted as the attendance for both games? If so, could this game, which may have close to 4500 attendance according to the NCAA, be at or near an all-time D-3 women's game attendance record?

Not that I'd put much stock in that record if only 2000 people actually see the game...

What is the all-time attendance record?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 09, 2007, 12:52:38 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 09, 2007, 08:30:28 AM
I just learned that the same ticket will get you in to the men's and women's double header, with the women's game at 12:45 and the men's game at 3:00.

Do the NCAA rules state that the total number of tickets sold is counted as the attendance for both games? If so, could this game, which may have close to 4500 attendance according to the NCAA, be at or near an all-time D-3 women's game attendance record?

Not that I'd put much stock in that record if only 2000 people actually see the game...

What is the all-time attendance record?


Apparently the NCAA allows a school to count anyone in attendance by halftime as attending the women's games.  Seems like we had a similar discussion a few pages back about a Hope women's/men's double header last year and how attendance was calculated for the women.

sorry don't have a link.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 09, 2007, 02:52:05 PM
Yes, that is the rule. If a separate attendance count -- in the building -- is taken by halftime of the women's game it counts.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 09, 2007, 09:56:08 PM
Quote from: Brian Morehouse
"Maybe (Calvin) should be No. 1," said Morehouse, who guided the Flying Dutch to the Division III title last year. "They are that good. I was talking with our assistant coaches, and I said, 'Who would they not be able to beat on the way to the Final Four?' We couldn't come up with a team.

--GR Press (http://www.mlive.com/search/index.ssf?/base/sports-5/1171028188288990.xml?grpress?SPSM&coll=6)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on February 10, 2007, 01:31:19 PM
Halftime

Calvin 23
Hope   21

Calvin 16 turnovers
Title: Re: Lets Talk MIAA
Post by: GoKnights68 on February 10, 2007, 02:04:48 PM
Looks like Calvin and Hope women are all tied up at 37 with about 10 minutes to go in the game.  Should be  a great finish.
Title: Re: Lets Talk MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on February 10, 2007, 02:22:17 PM
Quote from: goknights68 on February 10, 2007, 02:04:48 PM
Looks like Calvin and Hope women are all tied up at 37 with about 10 minutes to go in the game.  Should be  a great finish.

Super game... 51-51 w/37 sec
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 10, 2007, 02:27:37 PM
Wow, what an exciting last 17 seconds to the Hope-Calvin game. OT. Two really evenly matched teams in both games. Hopefully they both make the NCAA tourney and are not matched up to meet each other in the first or second round. Dumb committee, I have no faith.
Title: Re: Lets Talk MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on February 10, 2007, 02:27:57 PM
OT

Another Hope/Calvin classic...
Title: Re: Lets Talk MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 10, 2007, 02:28:42 PM
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on February 10, 2007, 02:22:17 PM
Quote from: goknights68 on February 10, 2007, 02:04:48 PM
Looks like Calvin and Hope women are all tied up at 37 with about 10 minutes to go in the game.  Should be  a great finish.

Super game... 51-51 w/37 sec

Listening to the Calvin radio in the library right now. All I got was a yell and Calvin stole the ball. Almost sounded like the Calvin player missed a layup. Is that right?
Title: Re: Lets Talk MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 10, 2007, 02:41:56 PM
Unfortunate loss for the Hope Women. They only shot 30% from the floor, including 18% from the 3 and still managed to almost win the game because of a great game on the boards. It should be great to see these two teams meet up again, hopefully that will happen in the MIAA tourney.

That said this has to be the most depressing week for Orange and Blue teams ever. First, the Bears. Then Hope men, now Hope women. If Illinois doesn't pull off a victory at Indiana in the next 7 minutes I may just stay in bed all day tomorrow :'(
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 10, 2007, 05:26:30 PM
It was a very evenly matched, very physical defensive battle with bodies flying every which way. The halftime score was 23-21 for the knights. There were many lead changes and the largest lead by either team was 5 points.

Hope didn't have any dribble penetration to speak of but they did pass the ball in to the post quite a bit, and Wood was their leading scorer.

Calvin had problems getting the ball into the post in the first half -- many passes were tipped or picked off. This will be excellent experience for them for tournaments, because no other teams have been able to apply this kind of defensive pressure. But with all of Hope's emphasis on interior defense Calvin was able to hit 8 three-point shots, nearly half their point total for the non-overtime portion of the game.

After the men's game, the women's team cut down the nets to celebrate the MIAA season championship for the Knights.

Addendum: I wasn't too surprised to see from the box score that Hope had outrebounded Calvin 49-33. Hope had 22 offensive rebounds on 46 missed shots. Calvin made up the deficit with better shooting, 41% on the game to Hope's 30%. The 3-point percentage made a huge difference, 8 of 15 for Calvin to 3 of 17 for Hope.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Oval on February 10, 2007, 09:44:09 PM
MIAA scores
Saturday Feb 10

Calvin 63, Hope 58 (OT)
Saint Mary's 62, Kalamazoo 60
Olivet 76, Alma 72
Tri-State 89, Adrian 77
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Fawkes316 on February 10, 2007, 09:55:38 PM
Losing to Wheaton could be the best thing that has happened to Calvin. Wheaton was the last team to beat both Millikin and Hope the last two years, before they went on to win the National Championship.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: knightrider on February 11, 2007, 12:00:51 PM
to settle this attendance issue, yesterdays game attendance between calvin and hope was listed at 2234, much less than the 2900 for the first meeting this year.  From being at the game, this was definitely because of a count at half time and not from the end of the game.  By the end of the game there was probably more than 3000. 

A more interesting observation was that the guys game was credited with an attendance of 3300, but that had to have counted some of those in attendance at the women's game because the fieldhouse cleared out quite a bit after the women's game.  I bet the guys game had 2000, but not 3000 in attendance. 

Overall I think the way the NCAA counts attendance is flawed and the only way to have gotten an accurate count would have been to empty out the fieldhouse after the women's game and have different tickets for the mens game.  Time to put an end to this discussion.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: knightrider on February 11, 2007, 12:20:08 PM
Looking at the calvin hope game from yesterday, I think my pregame assessment wasn't too far off.  Calvin tried to stop Hope in the post but still gave up 31 of hope's 58 points by wood, lange, and warsen.  These three combined to shoot 10 of 20 from the field and 11 of 15 from the free throw line.  The rest of the hope team shot 10 of 36 from the floor and 4 of 6 from the free throw line.  The other main post player, emily ohare, was 0-8 from the floor.  I think this shows calvin's defensive focus in the game, and what made a difference in the game.  Focusing on the posts and gambling a bit on the guards paid off and Calvin won the game. 

Looking at what Calvin attacked on the offensive end, I would say that Kristi Brummel was the game breaker.  Her outside shooting early in the game was what kept calvin in the game.  Then the rest of the calvin guards stepping up and hitting big outside shots, helped open up the inside a bit for Harris and Winkle.

One thing I would like to see Calvin do more against Hope the next time is go with the three post lineup of winkle, harris and willett.  The nice thing about this lineup is that harris is fast enough to guard on the perimeter, plus it forces one of hopes guards to guard a post player, usually harris.  This mismatch would be in Calvin's favor.  Calvin used this a couple of times yesterday, but only took full advantage once where Harris posted Boles up and scored. 

Overall it was a great, exciting game, and hopefully we will get at least one more match up between these two before the season is over.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hawk'ster on February 11, 2007, 12:21:48 PM
Quote from: Preto on February 08, 2007, 12:30:35 PM
Quote from: ziggy on February 07, 2007, 11:20:41 PM
First set of regional rankings:
Great Lakes
1 Calvin 12-0 18-1
5 Hope 13-2 18-2


Homecoming or not, I think Calvin is ready to fall.  Hope's second loss was a carryover from the Calvin loss in DeVos.  The Dutch will come out and overwhelm the Knights in the first 10 minutes.  The question will be if Calvin can recover.


Right on one count – Hope's defense was all over Calvin for the 1st ten minutes.  But that went both ways. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flea on February 11, 2007, 12:27:20 PM
I was surprised Winkle passed-up so many 10-12 footers in the paint.  I've seen her hit these before.  Her lack of shooting may be one reason Calvin was chuckin' it from the cheap seats.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 11, 2007, 01:57:50 PM
Quote from: Flea on February 11, 2007, 12:27:20 PM
I was surprised Winkle passed-up so many 10-12 footers in the paint.  I've seen her hit these before.  Her lack of shooting may be one reason Calvin was chuckin' it from the cheap seats.

I also was surprised to see Winkle pass up on a couple of opportunities to take the mid-range jumper. The only thing I can think was happening is that Lisa was giving head fakes so that Ellen Wood (who creates matchup problems for Winkle and for Calvin) would be out of position and, hopefully, get into some foul difficulty.

Knightrider has suggested that Calvin go with a lineup of Winkle, Harris and Willett so as to create matchup problems for Hope the next time they play . Although that possibility has some attraction I agree with the current arrangement John Ross has. His current rotation has Willett subbing in for either Winkle or Harris and I don't see a good rotation available for the Knights if he has to sub in after starting all three of these girls. In yesterday's game Trewhella was seriously gassed late in regulation. You have to give your post players rest too.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: David Collinge on February 11, 2007, 02:06:57 PM
Are Lisa Winkle, Sarah Winkle, and Aaron Winkle siblings?  And if so, are there any more at home like them?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Preto on February 11, 2007, 02:17:03 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on February 11, 2007, 02:06:57 PM
Are Lisa Winkle, Sarah Winkle, and Aaron Winkle siblings?  And if so, are there any more at home like them?

Not siblings.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 11, 2007, 02:25:23 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on February 11, 2007, 02:06:57 PM
Are Lisa Winkle, Sarah Winkle, and Aaron Winkle siblings?  And if so, are there any more at home like them?

Lisa and Sarah are sisters. They are not related to Aaron--except possibly very distantly.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 11, 2007, 02:32:08 PM
Great win for Calvin's women today.  BTW: don't say that in the men's room, even if it is true, some of the posters there are overly sensitive.  Definitely a good test in more ways than one to be ready for the tournaments.
Thanks OK.  I was just going to say the two women are sisters.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Harrier on February 11, 2007, 02:55:02 PM
Did anyone else think the game was over-the-top physical? 

My only problem with the officiating is when there's obvious physical contact which results in a turnover.  There're a few times when an offensive player was knocked to the ground, the ball squirted out-of-bounds and the refs gave it to the other team....strange?

I don't think Calvin went inside because there wasn't anything there.  Wood owned the paint.  Without her athleticism and dribble penetration Harris would've had a tough time getting near the basket.  She wasn't getting the ball down on the box with a chance to make a move.

Winkle seemed a bit gassed.  That may have led to her passing-up some shots.  She was tremendous on defense, often guarding a stronger Wood.  That'd wear on anyone.  We saw some of Winkle's track speed when she ran down a Hope guard following a front court steal and an open basket ahead of her.

Where'll Winkle fall on this season's AA teams?

In 2006 she was Honorable Mention and currently she's on the 2007 pre-season Fourth Team.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Grutte Dirk on February 11, 2007, 03:01:07 PM
Dear Greyhounds,

Please send film of the last three Messiah at Moravia games to:

Coach J Ross
c/o HPERDS Dept
3201 Burton SE
Grand Rapids MI
49546
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Cowman on February 11, 2007, 03:12:38 PM
Quote from: Harrier on February 11, 2007, 02:55:02 PM
Did anyone else think the game was over-the-top physical? 

My only problem with the officiating is when there's obvious physical contact which results in a turnover.  There're a few times when an offensive player was knocked to the ground, the ball squirted out-of-bounds and the refs gave it to the other team....strange?

Oh my.  In OT a Hope player was sandwiched near the baseline and dropped the ball OB -- CALVIN BALL.  Too important to miss that call.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 11, 2007, 03:19:20 PM
In general i've found women's officiating to be down right atrocious.  But strangely I've also seen some women's games that were much more physical than the men.

The #1 quality in a recruit for D3 should be a sense of humor. ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Trailer Dog on February 11, 2007, 03:34:16 PM
Quote from: sac on February 11, 2007, 03:19:20 PM
In general i've found women's officiating to be down right atrocious.  But strangely I've also seen some women's games that were much more physical than the men.

The #1 quality in a recruit for D3 should be a sense of humor. ;)

If the MIAA men played as physical as the women there would be blood on the floor every game.  The stripes would have to put a stop to it.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flynn on February 11, 2007, 05:33:16 PM
With Calvin winning the MIAA title and on the cusp of a #1 ranking I did a very small piece of research and something dinged my curiousity. 

-- What happened to the Lady Knights from 2001-2003? 
-- What happened in 2004 that brought them back?

1996 .... 1st: (12-0)
1997 .... 1st: (11-1)
1998 .... 1st: (12-0)
1999 .... 1st: (14-2)
2000 .... 2nd: (13-3)
2001 .... 4th: (7-7)
2002 .... 5th: (7-7)
2003 .... 4th: (6-8)
2004 .... 1st: (13-1)
2005 .... 3rd: (13-3)
2006 .... 2nd: (14-2)
2007 .... 1st: (currently 14-0)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Harrier on February 11, 2007, 05:40:29 PM
Quote from: Flynn on February 11, 2007, 05:33:16 PM
With Calvin winning the MIAA title and on the cusp of a #1 ranking I did a very small piece of research and something dinged my curiousity. 

-- What happened to the Lady Knights from 2001-2003? 
-- What happened in 2004 that brought them back?


It may've had more to do with the rest of the MIAA than with Calvin.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 11, 2007, 05:46:46 PM
Quote from: Flynn on February 11, 2007, 05:33:16 PM
With Calvin winning the MIAA title and on the cusp of a #1 ranking I did a very small piece of research and something dinged my curiousity. 

-- What happened to the Lady Knights from 2001-2003? 
-- What happened in 2004 that brought them back?

Didn't coach Ross start in 2004? Also Lisa Winkle.

Quote from: Harrier
It may've had more to do with the rest of the MIAA than with Calvin.

The MIAA is very strong this year. Was it even stronger in 2001..3?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: David Collinge on February 11, 2007, 06:14:25 PM
Quote from: Flynn on February 11, 2007, 05:33:16 PM
With Calvin winning the MIAA title and on the cusp of a #1 ranking [...]

I'd hold off on that celebration party until the rankings come out.  Bowdoin has at least as good a claim to the top spot in this week's poll.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flynn on February 11, 2007, 06:39:30 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on February 11, 2007, 06:14:25 PM
Quote from: Flynn on February 11, 2007, 05:33:16 PM
With Calvin winning the MIAA title and on the cusp of a #1 ranking [...]

I'd hold off on that celebration party until the rankings come out.  Bowdoin has at least as good a claim to the top spot in this week's poll.

Sorry, I misused the word cusp.

cusp [kuhsp] a point that marks the beginning of a change

I should have used verge.

verge [vurj] the edge, rim, or margin of something

I'd say Calvin is right on the edge of the top-ranking, but not quite there (maybe).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hawk'ster on February 11, 2007, 07:31:39 PM
Quote from: Flynn on February 11, 2007, 05:33:16 PM
With Calvin winning the MIAA title and on the cusp of a #1 ranking I did a very small piece of research and something dinged my curiousity. 

1996 .... 1st: (12-0)
1997 .... 1st: (11-1)
1998 .... 1st: (12-0)
1999 .... 1st: (14-2)
2000 .... 2nd: (13-3)
2001 .... 4th: (7-7)
2002 .... 5th: (7-7)
2003 .... 4th: (6-8)
2004 .... 1st: (13-1)
2005 .... 3rd: (13-3)
2006 .... 2nd: (14-2)
2007 .... 1st: (currently 14-0)

Where can one find MIAA standings older than 1996?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 11, 2007, 11:09:16 PM
I believe the Holland Archives in Hope's library has all of the MIAA historical stuff.  I have no idea if its available to the public.

From my vintage 1995 MIAA tournament program

1995
Hope.....11-1
Calvin....10-2
Alma......9-3
Adrian....5-7
Albion....4-8
Olivet.....2-10
Kzoo......1-11


Answer to an earlier question..........in 2001 to 2003  Kalamazoo had a couple very good teams, Alma and Albion also had good teams.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 12, 2007, 07:07:04 AM
Quote from: hawk'ster on February 11, 2007, 07:31:39 PM
Quote from: Flynn on February 11, 2007, 05:33:16 PM
With Calvin winning the MIAA title and on the cusp of a #1 ranking I did a very small piece of research and something dinged my curiousity. 

1996 .... 1st: (12-0)
1997 .... 1st: (11-1)
1998 .... 1st: (12-0)
1999 .... 1st: (14-2)
2000 .... 2nd: (13-3)
2001 .... 4th: (7-7)
2002 .... 5th: (7-7)
2003 .... 4th: (6-8)
2004 .... 1st: (13-1)
2005 .... 3rd: (13-3)
2006 .... 2nd: (14-2)
2007 .... 1st: (currently 14-0)

Where can one find MIAA standings older than 1996?

You can gather a bit more info from the MIAA in the NCAA page (http://www.miaa.org/wbb/wbbncaa.html):

1985 Alma is MIAA champ, 1-1 in NCAAs
1986 Alma is MIAA champ, 1-1 in NCAAs
1987 Alma is MIAA champ, 1-1 in NCAAs
1988 Calvin is MIAA champ, 1-1 in NCAAs
1989 Alma is MIAA champ, 1-1 in NCAAs

1990 Hope is MIAA champ, 5-0 in NCAAs, national champ
1991 Adrian 1-1, Calvin 0-1 in NCAAs
1992 Alma is MIAA champ, 5-0 in NCAAs, national champ
1993 Calvin is MIAA champ, 0-1 in NCAAs
1994 Alma is MIAA champ, 1-1 in NCAAs
1995 Hope is MIAA champ, 0-1 in NCAAs
1996 Calvin 1-1 in NCAAs, Alma 0-1 in NCAAs
1997 Alma 1-1, Calvin 1-1 in NCAAs
1998 Calvin 1-1, Hope 0-1 in NCAAs
1999 Hope 0-1, Defiance 0-1, Calvin 2-1 in NCAAs

2000 Calvin 2-1 in NCAAs
2001 Hope 0-1 in NCAAs
2002 Hope 1-1 in NCAAs
2003 Hope 3-1 in NCAAs
2004 Albion 0-1 in NCAAs
2005 Calvin 3-1, Albion 1-1 in NCAAs
2006 Calvin 0-1, Hope 6-0 in NCAAs, national champ

Let's see, that's 8 NCAA appearances and a national championship for Alma, 10 appearances and 3 sectionals for Calvin, 8 appearances, two sectionals, and two national championships for Hope, and appearances for Adrian, Albion (2), and Defiance. The MIAA is 38 and 26 overall in the NCAAs (36 and 24 against non-MIAA teams), with 3 national championships in 22 years.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ziggy on February 12, 2007, 09:24:12 PM
Calvin moves into the #2 spot in this week's poll, just six points shy of #1.  Hope moves up a spot to #8 despite the loss on Saturday.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Harrier on February 12, 2007, 09:36:24 PM
Quote from: ziggy on February 12, 2007, 09:24:12 PM
Hope moves up a spot to #8 despite the loss on Saturday.

Brilliant.  I love to see a poll that makes sense.  A team barely losses to a top-team and moves up. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: David Collinge on February 12, 2007, 11:27:14 PM
Quote from: Harrier on February 12, 2007, 09:36:24 PM
Quote from: ziggy on February 12, 2007, 09:24:12 PM
Hope moves up a spot to #8 despite the loss on Saturday.

Brilliant.  I love to see a poll that makes sense.  A team barely losses to a top-team and moves up. 

They really did move up, too, albeit slightly--they gained 10 points.  So it's not just a question of moving up because the teams around them (like Rochester and IWU) fell faster, although that may have been a factor.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 13, 2007, 11:10:51 AM
Good points David.  The womens poll does seem to make a great deal of sense.  I am very happy to see Calvin in 2nd.  Over the years I think a #1 rating has hurt more teams than it has ever helped.  Last Sat. proves Hope hasn't lost much (from last year), and Calvin can't relax. :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 13, 2007, 11:27:01 AM
I think a Hope-Calvin rematch in the MIAA finals would be one of the more exciting championship games in years in the MIAA in either men or women's games.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 13, 2007, 12:05:56 PM
Repeat matchups in the two conference finals are no guaruntee of course.......but it would be great if the starting times allowed fans to attend both Championship games. :)

The biggest obstacle for another Calvin/Hope game would seem to be a Hope/Albion matchup, which at least for now would be avoided.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Preto on February 13, 2007, 12:37:39 PM
Quote from: sac on February 13, 2007, 12:05:56 PM
Repeat matchups in the two conference finals are no guaruntee of course.......but it would be great if the starting times allowed fans to attend both Championship games. :)

The biggest obstacle for another Calvin/Hope game would seem to be a Hope/Albion matchup, which at least for now would be avoided.

Amen
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 14, 2007, 09:05:09 PM
What a great effort tonight by Olivet. Very impressive.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Oval on February 14, 2007, 09:38:08 PM
MIAA scores
Wednesday Feb 14

Tri-State 67, Kalamazoo 46
Hope 63, Alma 48
Calvin 66, Olivet 62
Saint Mary's 71, Albion 63 (OT)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Harrier on February 16, 2007, 12:07:02 PM
Any thoughts on the MIAA basketball tournament?

SATURDAY, FEB. 17
Hope at Saint Mary's, 3 p.m.
Albion at Adrian, 3 p.m.
Kalamazoo at Olivet, 3 p.m.
Calvin at Alma, 3 p.m.


(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.miaa.org%2Fimg%2Flogostrophy%2FMIAABballTournLogo07.jpg&hash=8e7779b700f1e34b9daea461974dddd24376b890)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Preto on February 16, 2007, 12:10:54 PM
Quote from: Harrier on February 16, 2007, 12:07:02 PM
Any thoughts on the MIAA basketball tournament?

SATURDAY, FEB. 17
Hope at Saint Mary's, 3 p.m.
Albion at Adrian, 3 p.m.
Kalamazoo at Olivet, 3 p.m.
Calvin at Alma, 3 p.m.



Calvin's won two close ones, I see Hope winning the tourney.  Will Calvin get in if they loose again before the NCCA's?

I wouldn't be shocked if St Marys beat the Dutch tomorrow.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 16, 2007, 12:28:32 PM
Quote from: Preto on February 16, 2007, 12:10:54 PM
Quote from: Harrier on February 16, 2007, 12:07:02 PM
Any thoughts on the MIAA basketball tournament?

SATURDAY, FEB. 17
Hope at Saint Mary's, 3 p.m.
Albion at Adrian, 3 p.m.
Kalamazoo at Olivet, 3 p.m.
Calvin at Alma, 3 p.m.



Calvin's won two close ones, I see Hope winning the tourney.  Will Calvin get in if they loose again before the NCCA's?

I wouldn't be shocked if St Marys beat the Dutch tomorrow.

Calvin is currently 22-1 and ranked first in the Great Lakes Region (Hope is ranked 5th). If Calvin wins out until the MIAA conference final I can't imagine they would drop so low as to not get an at-large bid to the NCAA. Of course they likely would be matched up against Hope again in the first or second round unless one of the teams got moved out of region for the NCAA's.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hawk'ster on February 17, 2007, 01:23:27 AM
Quote from: DCHopeNut on February 14, 2007, 09:05:09 PM
What a great effort tonight by Olivet. Very impressive.

I'd say Olivet has two of the top athletes in the MIAA.  Audrey Graham and Kelsey Gordon are as quick, if not quicker, than anyone else I've seen this winter.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Oval on February 17, 2007, 07:52:12 PM
MIAA scores
Saturday Feb 17

Hope 79, Saint Mary's 71
Albion 79, Adrian 53
Olivet 84, Kalamazoo 51
Calvin 59, Alma 53
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Harrier on February 17, 2007, 07:57:52 PM
MIAA Women's tournament

MONDAY - play-in game
#9 Kalamazoo (3-21) at #8 Adrian (8-15), 7:30 p.m.

TUESDAY - quarterfinals
Kalamazoo/Adrian winner at #1 Calvin (23-1), 7:30 p.m.
#7 Tri-State (6-18) at #2 Hope (21-3), 7:30 p.m.
#6 Alma (10-13) at #3 Saint Mary's (11-12), 7:30 p.m.
#5 Olivet (12-11) at #4 Albion (14-10), 7:30 p.m.

THURSDAY - semi-finals
Hope/Tri-State winner vs. Alma/Saint Mary's winner at highest seed, 7:30 p.m.
Albion/Olivet winner vs. Calvin/Kalamazoo-Adrian winner at highest seed, 7:30 p.m.

SATURDAY - championship
Championship game at highest remaining seed, 3 p.m.

winner advances to NCAA Tournament
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 17, 2007, 09:04:54 PM
Congrats to the knights who finish up the MIAA season a perfect 16-0, just the second time that's been done. (Hope did it last year as well.)

For the second time this week the knights faced a determined, upset-minded team and escaped with a close victory. Last time the knights didn't have much bounce in the step after the strenuous Hope game,  and the knights made only 3 of 16 trey attempts. This afternoon the knights shot pretty well, at .465, but turned the ball over 25 times to an aggressive Alma defense.

The MIAA has several really good teams that are difficult to beat, especially at home. Still, Ross says that the knights' focus needs to be a lot better starting with the conference tournament.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flynn on February 17, 2007, 09:18:59 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 17, 2007, 09:04:54 PM
Congrats to the knights who finish up the MIAA season a perfect 16-0, just the second time that's been done. (Hope did it last year as well.) ..... but turned the ball over 25 times to an aggressive Alma defense.


Turnovers will be their doom.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 18, 2007, 06:03:41 AM
Quote from: Flynn on February 17, 2007, 09:18:59 PM

Turnovers will be their doom.


They need to keep turnovers down, work hard on the boards, and hit more 3-point shots. If they can focus and pull it all together, I think they can go far in the NCAA tournament, but if focus doesn't improve, they won't.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Harrier on February 19, 2007, 10:47:28 PM
SCORES
MIAA Women's tournament

MONDAY - play-in game
Adrian 78, Kalamazoo 66

TUESDAY - quarterfinals
#8 Adrian (8-15) at #1 Calvin (23-1), 7:30 p.m.
#7 Tri-State (6-18) at #2 Hope (21-3), 7:30 p.m.
#6 Alma (10-13) at #3 Saint Mary's (11-12), 7:30 p.m.
#5 Olivet (12-11) at #4 Albion (14-10), 7:30 p.m.

THURSDAY - semi-finals
Hope/Tri-State winner vs. Alma/Saint Mary's winner at highest seed, 7:30 p.m.
Albion/Olivet winner vs. Calvin/Kalamazoo-Adrian winner at highest seed, 7:30 p.m.

SATURDAY - championship
Championship game at highest remaining seed, 3 p.m.

winner advances to NCAA Tournament
Title: Re: MIAA women's pick 'em
Post by: hawk'ster on February 19, 2007, 10:54:46 PM
MIAA Women's tournament

TUESDAY - quarterfinals
Lady Knights o Bitchin' Bulldogs
Flying Dutch o Thunderwomen
Belles o Fighting Scots
CometsBritons

THURSDAY - semi-finals
Flying Dutch o Belles
Lady Knights o Comets

SATURDAY - championship
Lady Knights o Flying Dutch
Title: Re: MIAA women's pick 'em
Post by: hawk'ster on February 19, 2007, 10:55:54 PM
Quote from: hawk'ster on February 19, 2007, 10:54:46 PM
MIAA Women's tournament

TUESDAY - quarterfinals
Lady Knights o Bitchin' Bulldogs
Flying Dutch o Thunderwomen
Belles o Fighting Scots
CometsBritons

THURSDAY - semi-finals
Flying Dutch o Belles
Lady Knights o Comets

SATURDAY - championship
Lady Knights o Flying Dutch


-- for 200 .... anyone else what to post some picks?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Preto on February 19, 2007, 11:11:00 PM
Tuesday
Calvin
Hope
Alma
Albion

Thursday
Hope
Calvin

Saturday
Calvin

2 MIAA teams in the NCAAs.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: veragrace on February 20, 2007, 08:51:42 AM
Does anyone know the status of Stacy Warsen from Hope?  I saw that she was out with an injury on Saturday. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flynn on February 20, 2007, 10:03:59 AM
MONDAY - play-in game
Adrian 78, Kalamazoo 66

TUESDAY - quarterfinals
Calvin
Hope
St Marys
Olivet

THURSDAY - semi-finals
Hope
Olivet - upset special

SATURDAY - championship
Hope
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 20, 2007, 10:49:37 AM
Quote from: veragrace on February 20, 2007, 08:51:42 AM
Does anyone know the status of Stacy Warsen from Hope?  I saw that she was out with an injury on Saturday. 

According to the Sentinel (which means a 50% chance of being right) she will be playing tonight
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 20, 2007, 10:50:33 AM
Tuesday
Calvin
Hope
Alma
Albion

Thursday
Hope
Calvin

Saturday
Hope
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 20, 2007, 02:23:27 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 20, 2007, 10:49:37 AM
According to the Sentinel (which means a 50% chance of being right) she will be playing tonight

Fifty?

Here are my own personal, painstakingly selected picks for the women's tournament........
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 20, 2007, 10:50:33 AM
Tuesday
Calvin
Hope
Alma
Albion

Thursday
Hope
Calvin

Saturday
Hope

I'll take Hope by 4 to break the tie-breaker
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 20, 2007, 03:33:17 PM
I'll take Hope by 5
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Harrier on February 20, 2007, 09:15:13 PM
SCORES
MIAA Women's tournament

MONDAY - play-in game
Adrian 78, Kalamazoo 66

TUESDAY - quarterfinals
Calvin 90, Adrian 52
Hope 85, Tri-State 61
Saint Mary's 66, Alma 54
Albion 80, Olivet 74 (OT)

THURSDAY - semi-finals
Hope/Tri-State winner vs. Alma/Saint Mary's winner at highest seed, 7:30 p.m.
Albion/Olivet winner vs. Calvin/Kalamazoo-Adrian winner at highest seed, 7:30 p.m.

SATURDAY - championship
Championship game at highest remaining seed, 3 p.m.

winner advances to NCAA Tournament
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Harrier on February 20, 2007, 09:18:33 PM
Olivet/Albion 62-62 to overtime
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Harrier on February 20, 2007, 09:39:04 PM
Albion goes from 5 down with under a minute to winning by 6.

Graham's 4 of 16 shooting kept the Britons in it.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Harrier on February 20, 2007, 09:42:45 PM
SCORES
MIAA Women's tournament

MONDAY - play-in game
Adrian 78, Kalamazoo 66

TUESDAY - quarterfinals
Calvin 90, Adrian 52
Hope 85, Tri-State 61
Saint Mary's 66, Alma 54
Albion 80, Olivet 74 (OT)

THURSDAY - semi-finals
Saint Mary's at Hope
Albion at Calvin

SATURDAY - championship
Championship game at highest remaining seed, 3 p.m.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 21, 2007, 03:40:17 PM
Congrats to Lisa Winkle for being a finalist for the Jousten award.   It seems to me that she is the perfect candidate for this type of award.  She has done extremely well over the last 4 years.  win or lose this one award she is in line for a lot more awards before she is done.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 21, 2007, 03:50:35 PM
Quote from: realist on February 21, 2007, 03:40:17 PM
Congrats to Lisa Winkle for being a finalist for the Jousten award.   It seems to me that she is the perfect candidate for this type of award.  She has done extremely well over the last 4 years.  win or lose this one award she is in line for a lot more awards before she is done.

Considering she's a Lady Knight, maybe the Jousting award is fitting.   ;D

realist - my apologies for playing off your misspelling, but it was just too good to pass up
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bob MacKenzie on February 21, 2007, 04:14:36 PM
Quote from: realist on February 21, 2007, 03:40:17 PM
Congrats to Lisa Winkle for being a finalist for the Jousten award.   It seems to me that she is the perfect candidate for this type of award.  She has done extremely well over the last 4 years.  win or lose this one award she is in line for a lot more awards before she is done.

I also see Lindsay Ippel is a finalist.  I believe Lindsay's parents are Calvin grads and John Ross recruited her hard.  Imagine if she had come to play for the Knights.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hawk'ster on February 21, 2007, 07:45:00 PM
Quote from: Bob MacKenzie on February 21, 2007, 04:14:36 PM

I also see Lindsay Ippel is a finalist.  I believe Lindsay's parents are Calvin grads and John Ross recruited her hard.  Imagine if she had come to play for the Knights.

ouch
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 22, 2007, 02:53:30 AM
Randolph-Macon would've won a national championship ...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Harrier on February 22, 2007, 06:36:34 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 22, 2007, 02:53:30 AM
Randolph-Macon would've won a national championship ...

great one
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 22, 2007, 07:41:55 PM
Live scoreboards for tonights semi-final action

http://www.calvin.edu/scoreboard/

http://www.hope.edu/athletics/livestats/
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 22, 2007, 07:51:12 PM
8:38 to go 1st half

Calvin 23 Albion 17

9:48 to go 1st half

Hope 15 St. Mary's 13
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 22, 2007, 08:10:37 PM
Halftime in both semi-finals

Calvin 32  Albion 26

Calvin holds Albion scoreless for 5:30, Guimond 13 for SM, Harris 11 for Calvin.

Hope 28 St. Mary's 24

10-0 run around the 6 min mark gives Hope the slim lead,  Wood for Hope with 13
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 22, 2007, 08:35:58 PM
I just had to post these score now

Calvin 41 Albion 33  15:30

Hope 41 St. Mary's 33  13:00

yep at the same moment, Hope on 9-0 run after Belle's took the lead.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 22, 2007, 08:43:51 PM
Timeout in Holland

Hope 50 SMC 39  8:32

18-6 run since SMC grabbed the lead


Calvin 53 Albion 42   10:01
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 22, 2007, 09:08:15 PM
FINALS

Hope 71 St. Mary's 52

Hope played what sounded like a great 10-15 minutes of basketball, a 13-0 run put it away midway through.  Ellen Wood with a 10-13 23pts 10 rebound performance for Hope.

Calvin 70 Albion 54

Harris 18 for Calvin, Guimond 18 Bossard 20 for Albion

Remarkably similar games.

Saturday 3pm at Calvin Fieldhouse

Hope vs Calvin
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Harrier on February 22, 2007, 09:51:09 PM
SCORES
MIAA Women's tournament

MONDAY - play-in game
Adrian 78, Kalamazoo 66

TUESDAY - quarterfinals
Calvin 90, Adrian 52
Hope 85, Tri-State 61
Saint Mary's 66, Alma 54
Albion 80, Olivet 74 (OT)

THURSDAY - semi-finals
Hope 71, St. Mary's 52
Calvin 70, Albion 54

SATURDAY - championship
Hope at Calvin, 3 p.m.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Grutte Dirk on February 23, 2007, 10:40:44 AM
Quote from: sac on February 22, 2007, 09:08:15 PM
Ellen Wood with a 10-13 23pts 10 rebound performance for Hope.

IMHO Wood is a very strong canidate for MVP this season.  While Winkle is all-american great, Wood is a bigger part of her team and should be an AA as well.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 23, 2007, 10:41:24 AM
Two solid outings for the knights.

In last night's game, the Britons played very well and hard. They're quick, they pass well, and they can drive to the bucket. They're not too far from a top-25-caliber team. If they played Southern Maine's schedule, they'd probably also be 21-2, or maybe a little worse if they had a couple of bad games. Congrats to Jessica Babcock on a great career.

The knights worked hard, out-rebounding the Britons 36-33 and holding turnovers down to an acceptable 15. Ball movement was good, with 17 assists.

Harris is really starting to stand out offensively. When she's hitting her shots, she's very hard to stop, even from a few feet out, even double teamed. She can get hacked or pushed by about three defenders on her way to the bucket and still get the shot off. Fortunately for the Britons the refs were allowing quite a bit of contact. Lisa Winkle picked up her 14th double-double of the season.

Calvin's win streak is up to 22 games, but from this point on, every game is going to be a huge challenge. Not the least of which is one and possibly two more games against Hope in the next week or so!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 23, 2007, 11:23:21 AM
Quote from: Bilk on February 23, 2007, 10:40:44 AM
Quote from: sac on February 22, 2007, 09:08:15 PM
Ellen Wood with a 10-13 23pts 10 rebound performance for Hope.

IMHO Wood is a very strong canidate for MVP this season.  While Winkle is all-american great, Wood is a bigger part of her team and should be an AA as well.

Both of these ladies are excellent players who have had fine careers and are the heart and soul of their respective teams. But Calvin did go undeated in the conference and to me that's the difference maker. I think you have to give the MVP to Lisa.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Cowman on February 23, 2007, 11:33:38 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 23, 2007, 10:41:24 AM
Two solid outings for the knights.

In last night's game, the Britons played very well and hard. They're quick, they pass well, and they can drive to the bucket. They're not too far from a top-25-caliber team. If they played Southern Maine's schedule, they'd probably also be 21-2, or maybe a little worse if they had a couple of bad games. Congrats to Jessica Babcock on a great career.


The question is, does Albion become as good a team playing Southern Maine's schedule . . . or does Southern Maine become a better team playing in the MIAA?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Trailer Dog on February 23, 2007, 11:49:36 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 23, 2007, 10:41:24 AM

Calvin's win streak is up to 22 games, but from this point on, every game is going to be a huge challenge. Not the least of which is one and possibly two more games against Hope in the next week or so!


If Calvin does play the Dutch two more times this winter no way they win both.  In that scenario I see the Knights winning the MIAA tourney and losing to Hope in the NCAAs.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on February 23, 2007, 03:23:33 PM
Went to cheer on the Flying Dutch last night against the Saint Mary Belles.  Some notes:

*  KUDOS to the students from Saint Mary's who made the trip to cheer on their team. They NEVER gave up and were a LOT louder than the 3 students from Hope. And what's up with that?  A handful of Hope students at the game, that's it????  I just don't get it?  But the young lads who wore the "Belles" - you got to give them a LOT OF CREDIT. I mean A LOT!!!  ::)

*  The game was quite close the first half with the lead changing a number of times.  Hope came out the second half with a greater will to win.  PLUS they put in both Wood and Lange and Saint Mary's was having a harder time keeping up with that rotation.

*  Now onto the "Leading Scorer" in the MIAA.  Allison Kessler.  She has a very nice shot, and handles the ball okay, BUT WHAT AN ATTITUDE.  She definitely puts the "ME" in Team.  After the game, she "shook" hands with the Hope Ladies, and hardly even acknowledged Coach Morehouse when he stopped specifically to share some words with her, she could definitely take a lesson from fellow teammate Bridget Lipke who had just as much will and determination, but acknowledged the words and gester from both the team and Coach Morehouse.  So the I looked up the Conference stats, and no wonder she's leading the league in scoring, she's played almost 970 minutes compared to 650 for a leading Calvin player and 530 for a leading Hope player.  HOLY COW!!!  Okay I'm done!   :) 

*  Kudos to Julie Henderson for doing a spectacular job on Defense last night.  Hope kept their two leading shooters for Saint Mary's who average 33 points together to just 24 and just 2 assists when they usually average 8!

*  Good Luck Ladies on Saturday at Calvin!  Go Hope!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 23, 2007, 04:45:40 PM
FDF:  No harm no foul.  Do 100 posts perfectly, and no one notices, but misspell one word. :D
Expect Sat's game to be very close.  Home court may just determine the outcome. 
Glad I don't have to vote for mvp.  It is hard when you have several  deserving candidates.  I give the edge to Winkle on the double doubles, and looking at the stats she could have had a few more, but spent loads of time on the bench. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 23, 2007, 05:09:35 PM
Quote from: Trailer Dog on February 23, 2007, 11:49:36 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 23, 2007, 10:41:24 AM

Calvin's win streak is up to 22 games, but from this point on, every game is going to be a huge challenge. Not the least of which is one and possibly two more games against Hope in the next week or so!


If Calvin does play the Dutch two more times this winter no way they win both.  In that scenario I see the Knights winning the MIAA tourney and losing to Hope in the NCAAs.

That scenario may not even be a possibility. Hope is on the bubble as to whether they'll get in to the NCAAs if they don't win the MIAA tourney. Currently their QOWI is 10.136, but if they lose another game it'll go down. I read somewhere that the threshold is likely to be about 10 for DIII women's teams.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: roaring0506 on February 23, 2007, 10:59:16 PM
I really don't think the NCAA would keep out Hope if they lose to Calvin in the finals.  Whether of not a have a low QOWI, they've still been ranked in the top 10 in the country.  Do they deserve to be in the tournament if they lose???  I'm sure the Hope fans think so.... but I'm sure a couple of other schools fans would disagree.  It will definitely be interesting.  Maybe Hope will beat Calvin this time 'round, and we won't have to discuss this senario ;)  Should be a fun one to watch it.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 24, 2007, 07:51:40 AM
Quote from: roaring0506 on February 23, 2007, 10:59:16 PM
I really don't think the NCAA would keep out Hope if they lose to Calvin in the finals.  Whether of not a have a low QOWI, they've still been ranked in the top 10 in the country.  Do they deserve to be in the tournament if they lose???  I'm sure the Hope fans think so.... but I'm sure a couple of other schools fans would disagree.  It will definitely be interesting.  Maybe Hope will beat Calvin this time 'round, and we won't have to discuss this senario ;)  Should be a fun one to watch it.

I don't like the QOWI system any better than the next guy, and Hope clearly deserves to dance if the tournament picks are supposed to even faintly resemble the best teams. However, them's the rules, at least for this year.

Hope's QOWI will fall to 9.583 if they lose to Calvin (or something close to that; it could also be affected by other teams' wins or losses). Definitely marginal at best for getting into the NCAAs.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 24, 2007, 07:59:10 AM
This morning's edition of the Holland Sentinel had an article on the NCAA proposal to ban the use of male practice players at women's practices. The NCAA believes that the use of men at practice is not in the spirit of Title IX and the stated reason for that belief is that using male practice players reduces opportunities for women. Can anyone explain how women's opportunities are reduced by using men at practice? Is the NCAA saying that using men reduces the practice time that would go to women and, therefore, this constitutes invidious discrimination? ??? Couldn't women argue that the use of men at women's practices improves the skill level of women and banning such use discriminates  by failing to give women the opportunity to utilize all possible tools for such improvement?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 24, 2007, 08:25:59 AM
Quote from: oldknight on February 24, 2007, 07:59:10 AM
Couldn't women argue that the use of men at women's practices improves the skill level of women and banning such use discriminates  by failing to give women the opportunity to utilize all possible tools for such improvement?

NO!

At least not in the NCAA's world. That would give tacit assent to the proposition that men tend to be taller and faster than women. :o A college president could get fired for suggesting such a thing. ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 24, 2007, 10:06:58 AM
Quote from: oldknight on February 24, 2007, 07:59:10 AM
This morning's edition of the Holland Sentinel had an article on the NCAA proposal to ban the use of male practice players at women's practices. The NCAA believes that the use of men at practice is not in the spirit of Title IX and the stated reason for that belief is that using male practice players reduces opportunities for women.

No, a select committee of NCAA members feels this is the case. Let's not paint the NCAA office with this broad brush unfairly on this one.

Back on Jan. 7, Hoopsville did an on-air discussion of this topic with women's basketball coaches and administrators. It might be worth listening to:

http://www.d3hoops.com/audio/07/malepracticing10707.mp3
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 24, 2007, 10:45:18 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 24, 2007, 08:25:59 AM
Quote from: oldknight on February 24, 2007, 07:59:10 AM
Couldn't women argue that the use of men at women's practices improves the skill level of women and banning such use discriminates  by failing to give women the opportunity to utilize all possible tools for such improvement?

NO!

At least not in the NCAA's world. That would give tacit assent to the proposition that men tend to be taller and faster than women. :o A college president could get fired for suggesting such a thing. ;)


Being the gender sensitive guy that I am ( ;)) you'll note that I began asking the question with the words "Couldn't women argue . . . ?" I really don't want to be Larry Summers--although I wouldn't mind having his severance package. 8)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 24, 2007, 11:20:53 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 24, 2007, 10:06:58 AM
Quote from: oldknight on February 24, 2007, 07:59:10 AM
This morning's edition of the Holland Sentinel had an article on the NCAA proposal to ban the use of male practice players at women's practices. The NCAA believes that the use of men at practice is not in the spirit of Title IX and the stated reason for that belief is that using male practice players reduces opportunities for women.

No, a select committee of NCAA members feels this is the case. Let's not paint the NCAA office with this broad brush unfairly on this one.

Back on Jan. 7, Hoopsville did an on-air discussion of this topic with women's basketball coaches and administrators. It might be worth listening to:

http://www.d3hoops.com/audio/07/malepracticing10707.mp3

Pat:

Thanks for the link and the discussion d3hoops did on this issue. Val Cushman, Randolph-Macon Womens' AD basically answered my question (the one I asked with respect to reduction of women's practice opportunities) in the affimative. That is, she said those who want the issue addressed are concerned that women's opportunities are negatively affected by male practice players at womens' practices because if a man is on the floor practicing, that necessarily means that a woman is not. I couldn't tell from the discussion whether Cushman has a strong belief one way or the other on this issue.

I don't think my comments could be construed as painting the NCAA with a broad brush but if there is a select committee operating under the authority of the NCAA then doesn't any of the committee's recommendations necessarily include the NCAA itself? I didn't think my comments were unfair to the organization although I do recognize the entire organization has not yet made a final decision.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 24, 2007, 11:43:34 AM
Here's the article

http://hollandsentinel.com/stories/022407/local_20070224003.shtml


Really I don't know the rule on this at all, but the thing that stuck out to me was Hope's women's AD made a good point about St. Mary's College and their problem with having no male students.

Definately doesn't sound like coaches want it to change.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Preto on February 24, 2007, 12:19:38 PM
Quote from: oldknight on February 24, 2007, 07:59:10 AM
Can anyone explain how women's opportunities are reduced by using men at practice? Is the NCAA saying that using men reduces the practice time that would go to women and, therefore, this constitutes invidious discrimination?

Do any coaches (men's team) bring in five or six post-collegiate basketball players to practice against their varsity while the other 7-8 team members shoot free throws or just watch?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 24, 2007, 12:42:54 PM
Quote from: Preto on February 24, 2007, 12:19:38 PM
Quote from: oldknight on February 24, 2007, 07:59:10 AM
Can anyone explain how women's opportunities are reduced by using men at practice? Is the NCAA saying that using men reduces the practice time that would go to women and, therefore, this constitutes invidious discrimination?

Do any coaches (men's team) bring in five or six post-collegiate basketball players to practice against their varsity while the other 7-8 team members shoot free throws or just watch?

There would be if any of them thought it would help get their team better prepared to play.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 24, 2007, 01:13:33 PM
I think that would be considered a scrimmage actually.........aren't schools restricted in the number of scrimmages they can hold?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: David Collinge on February 24, 2007, 01:25:09 PM
The issue of women's teams using male practice players was also brought up in the Daily Dose in January.  Here's a link to that discussion (http://www.d3hoops.com/dailydose/2007/01/02/who-should-teams-practice-against/), which also includes a well-reasoned and well-written take by Vassar's head women's coach Barb Bausch.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on February 24, 2007, 01:54:01 PM
Quote from: oldknight on February 24, 2007, 07:59:10 AM
This morning's edition of the Holland Sentinel had an article on the NCAA proposal to ban the use of male practice players at women's practices. The NCAA believes that the use of men at practice is not in the spirit of Title IX and the stated reason for that belief is that using male practice players reduces opportunities for women. Can anyone explain how women's opportunities are reduced by using men at practice? Is the NCAA saying that using men reduces the practice time that would go to women and, therefore, this constitutes invidious discrimination? ??? Couldn't women argue that the use of men at women's practices improves the skill level of women and banning such use discriminates  by failing to give women the opportunity to utilize all possible tools for such improvement?
There was an article on this in the most recent "Chronicle of Higher Education" about the use of this practice at the DI level. Two interesting quotes in the story (and I'm going from memory here, so I can't vouch for the accuracy). The first came from the coach of the University of Maryland's team, who places certain restrictions on how the male players can play, but argued they were invaluable because they were "quicker, stronger, faster, and more physical" and thus really elevate the women's level of play. The second quote came from the person who was bringing the action against the NCAA (can't remember the name) who argued that "such practices rely on archaic notions of male pre-eminence." A sociologist, no doubt, and the coaches seem to know something this person doesn't.

The action was initiated by some female players who argued they were being deprived of practice time as a result. They quickly solicited the help of ideological equity proponents who saw here an opportunity to grind a political axe.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Grutte Dirk on February 24, 2007, 02:16:52 PM
Quote from: sac on February 24, 2007, 01:13:33 PM
I think that would be considered a scrimmage actually.

Very good point.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 24, 2007, 03:24:52 PM
Hope women are off to a nice start this afternoon. Up 27-16 10 minutes into the game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 24, 2007, 03:47:55 PM
Hope  41
Calvin 31
Half

Solid half by the Hope women. Brian Morehouse is being described as at his "most intense ever," which wouldn't surprise me. Hope has been so close to beating Calvin twice and although I think both of these teams will be playing in the NCAA tourney (I would be shocked if the loser doesn't get a Pool C bid, I'd say Calvin is guaranteed a Pool C and Hope all but assured one) it'd be great to see Hope win this game.

I hope the NCAA doesn't put these two teams in the same bracket for the first weekend. Shoot, you know they will too. Stupid NCAA >:(
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 24, 2007, 04:23:56 PM
Hope seems to be running into trouble as Calvin has gone on a nice little run to bring the game to 58-56 with 9 minutes left.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on February 24, 2007, 04:40:52 PM
Another barnburner.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 24, 2007, 04:44:22 PM
these have been great games all year.

Marcia Harris got hurt with about 4 minutes left in the game and has left for the locker room. She had 23 of Calvin's points. Lisa Winkle has another 23. If Hope could guard just one of them they would be in good shape. For Calvin's sake you have to hope Harris' injury is not too serious and she will be able to play next weekend in the NCAA.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on February 24, 2007, 04:53:51 PM
Let's just hope the NCAA is smart enough to keep these two teams apart as long as possible!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 24, 2007, 04:58:00 PM
Hope 71
Calvin 68

A great, hard fought game again. Hope is now 4-0 against Calvin in MIAA championship games.

In addition to losing this game Calvin suffered two big injuries late in the game. Calvin should be a lock for a Pool C bid, however, with these injuries it could be bad.

Marcia Harris left the game with about 4 minutes left to an apparent knee injury. She was taken off the court without putting any weight on her knee and headed straight to the locker room.

With about 20 seconds left Christy Brummel went down to an ankle injury and she was also taken off the court without placing any weight on her ankle.

Those are both potentially huge losses for the #2 Calvin women, especially Harris who has had two monster games against Hope including 23 this afternoon.

Good luck to both teams tomorrow and lets hope they are not placed in the same bracket so any meeting would be at least in the Sweet 16.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 24, 2007, 05:15:39 PM
In past games Calvin's three-point shooting kept them in it. This time I think they only hit one trey, but they were still able to fight back from a 13-point deficit. They looked as though they were going to win it until Harris went out.

Losing Harris and/or Brummel would be a huge blow.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on February 24, 2007, 05:24:45 PM
great job hope girls and lets hope the men win tonight to go  2-0  vs calvin today
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 24, 2007, 05:33:31 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 24, 2007, 05:15:39 PM
In past games Calvin's three-point shooting kept them in it. This time I think they only hit one trey, but they were still able to fight back from a 13-point deficit. They looked as though they were going to win it until Harris went out.

Losing Harris and/or Brummel would be a huge blow.


The stat sheet shows 2-18 from the arc. I hate to say it but the losses of Harris and Brummel means Calvin is toast for the NCAA tournament and from his post game comments you can tell that John Ross knows it. I feel badly for the team and I'm sure the Hope players do too.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 24, 2007, 06:02:37 PM
Quote from: oldknight on February 24, 2007, 05:33:31 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 24, 2007, 05:15:39 PM
In past games Calvin's three-point shooting kept them in it. This time I think they only hit one trey, but they were still able to fight back from a 13-point deficit. They looked as though they were going to win it until Harris went out.

Losing Harris and/or Brummel would be a huge blow.


The stat sheet shows 2-18 from the arc. I hate to say it but the losses of Harris and Brummel means Calvin is toast for the NCAA tournament and from his post game comments you can tell that John Ross knows it. I feel badly for the team and I'm sure the Hope players do too.

Do we know the severity of Harris' injury? She clearly is a more important part of the team than Brummel's and they could easily be out in the first weekend without her.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AndersDY on February 24, 2007, 06:24:42 PM
Of all the ways to win such a great game, that has to be the worst. For those not there, Brummel's injury came as she was dribbling around the arc on potentially Calvin's final possession on which they were looking for a 3-pointer to tie. She pretty much crumbled to the floor which of course included losing the ball to a Hope player which then let Hope get to the line once more to ice the game with about 7 seconds left. An exciting game, but with a giant damper on it with the injuries in the final minutes.

I was sitting right over the shoulder of WHTC and got to watch the stats throughout the game. Hope jumped out in the first half with their defense, I believe points off turnovers were 22-2 at the half. Calvin could have been run out of the gym, except that they had basically twice as many rebounds as Hope the whole way. Fortunately Hope was able to hang on by shooting better than 80% from the line (and boy were there a lot of FTs today...).

Real unfortunate for Calvin's tournament chances if Harris is done for the year. With both Winkle and Harris on the floor, Calvin is extremely difficult to defend. Having just Winkle allows teams to focus on her much more.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: BrainOfJ. on February 24, 2007, 07:37:51 PM
Good Job Hope Women. You've earned your bid for sure.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flea on February 24, 2007, 07:42:31 PM
Quote from: DCHopeNut on February 24, 2007, 06:02:37 PM

Do we know the severity of Harris' injury? She clearly is a more important part of the team than Brummel's and they could easily be out in the first weekend without her.

But Calvin has a post to come off the bench.  With Calvin's already poor guard play who's going to replace Brummel?  Without her 3s in Calvin v Hope II Hope wins two at Knollcrest this winter.

MRIs should be done tonight.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 24, 2007, 09:33:28 PM
Quote from: Flea on February 24, 2007, 07:42:31 PM
Quote from: DCHopeNut on February 24, 2007, 06:02:37 PM

Do we know the severity of Harris' injury? She clearly is a more important part of the team than Brummel's and they could easily be out in the first weekend without her.

But Calvin has a post to come off the bench.  With Calvin's already poor guard play who's going to replace Brummel?  Without her 3s in Calvin v Hope II Hope wins two at Knollcrest this winter.

MRIs should be done tonight.

According to Doug Wentworth, both Harris and Brummel are possible ACLs. That really really ... isn't nice. Both for them and for the team.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 24, 2007, 10:52:33 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 24, 2007, 09:33:28 PM
Quote from: Flea on February 24, 2007, 07:42:31 PM
Quote from: DCHopeNut on February 24, 2007, 06:02:37 PM

Do we know the severity of Harris' injury? She clearly is a more important part of the team than Brummel's and they could easily be out in the first weekend without her.

But Calvin has a post to come off the bench.  With Calvin's already poor guard play who's going to replace Brummel?  Without her 3s in Calvin v Hope II Hope wins two at Knollcrest this winter.

MRIs should be done tonight.

According to Doug Wentworth, both Harris and Brummel are possible ACLs. That really really ... isn't nice. Both for them and for the team.


Wow, that is very sad if that is the case. To lose two players to ACL injuries within 4 minutes of playing time of the conference championship. Have to feel bad for Calvin ladies tonight. Best of luck to Brummels and Harris.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 24, 2007, 10:56:29 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 24, 2007, 09:33:28 PM
Quote from: Flea on February 24, 2007, 07:42:31 PM
Quote from: DCHopeNut on February 24, 2007, 06:02:37 PM

Do we know the severity of Harris' injury? She clearly is a more important part of the team than Brummel's and they could easily be out in the first weekend without her.

But Calvin has a post to come off the bench.  With Calvin's already poor guard play who's going to replace Brummel?  Without her 3s in Calvin v Hope II Hope wins two at Knollcrest this winter.

MRIs should be done tonight.

According to Doug Wentworth, both Harris and Brummel are possible ACLs. That really really ... isn't nice. Both for them and for the team.


I have to say that I've wtinessed someone blowing their ACL in the past, and both Harris and Brummel looked to be just that.  Such a bad thing to happen to two good players.   Prayers will be offered for both.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on February 24, 2007, 11:00:04 PM
the hope should  be able to host a 1st round game  it would be nice not calvin right away to play
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 25, 2007, 01:04:01 AM
It was a great hard fought game at Calvin today.   Honestly though the last play by Calvin just left a pit in your stomach.  I felt terrible for the Knights........everyone there deserved to see if  Calvin could tie it.   Following just minutes after Harris went down was just cruel.  Sometimes you wonder about the fella upstairs. :-\


I think coach Ross should send a tape of Harris' injury to the supervisor of officials.  If I saw what I thought I did, the refs had 4 chances to stop that play before an injury occurred and didn't do it.  Granted I don't know when the injury occurred but it looked like it happened at the end.

1.  There was an initial foul on the play, call it and no mad scramble

2.  Probably could have called reaching in or a push on the scramble

3.  Hope player has posession calling timeout

4.  A Hope and Calvin player had posession, jump ball

The whistle took forever and a better whistle could have avoided injury.


Maybe I'm way off here, but that part of it was disappointing.

Very devastating day for the Knights, no one wants to see injuries in such big games and such important times of the year.

....and I agree the NCAA would be well served to keep these two far, far apart in the brackets.  But certainly you wonder about the Knights chances now,  Winkle will and is capable of carrying the load.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 25, 2007, 06:04:50 AM
Quote from: sac on February 25, 2007, 01:04:01 AM
It was a great hard fought game at Calvin today.   Honestly though the last play by Calvin just left a pit in your stomach.  I felt terrible for the Knights........everyone there deserved to see if  Calvin could tie it.   Following just minutes after Harris went down was just cruel.  Sometimes you wonder about the fella upstairs. :-\


I think coach Ross should send a tape of Harris' injury to the supervisor of officials.  If I saw what I thought I did, the refs had 4 chances to stop that play before an injury occurred and didn't do it.  Granted I don't know when the injury occurred but it looked like it happened at the end.

1.  There was an initial foul on the play, call it and no mad scramble

2.  Probably could have called reaching in or a push on the scramble

3.  Hope player has posession calling timeout

4.  A Hope and Calvin player had posession, jump ball

The whistle took forever and a better whistle could have avoided injury.


Thank you thank you thank you for saying it. I hate to complain about the reffing in a situation like this, but I was thinking earlier of posting and offering to take up a collection to help the MIAA hire some refs who could keep the game under control.

Too late now.

I didn't see any sort of contact in Brummel's case, though. It looked as though she just twisted her knee a little and crumpled to the floor in pain.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Harrier on February 25, 2007, 01:16:10 PM
Quote from: Harrier on February 11, 2007, 02:55:02 PM
Did anyone else think the game was over-the-top physical? 

Quote from: sac on February 25, 2007, 01:04:01 AM
I think coach Ross should send a tape of Harris' injury to the supervisor of officials.  If I saw what I thought I did, the refs had 4 chances to stop that play before an injury occurred and didn't do it.  Granted I don't know when the injury occurred but it looked like it happened at the end.

Again, I've never seen a men's game as physical as these women's games.  What is the thinking behind allowing such physical play?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Harrier on February 25, 2007, 01:21:36 PM
SCORES
MIAA Women's tournament

MONDAY - play-in game
Adrian 78, Kalamazoo 66

TUESDAY - quarterfinals
Calvin 90, Adrian 52
Hope 85, Tri-State 61
Saint Mary's 66, Alma 54
Albion 80, Olivet 74 (OT)

THURSDAY - semi-finals
Hope 71, St. Mary's 52
Calvin 70, Albion 54

SATURDAY - championship
Hope 71, Calvin 68
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 25, 2007, 07:56:10 PM
Don't expect Harris or Brummel back anytime soon.

Losing them hurts--a lot.

Still, the knights have a deep team. I wonder if they can pull together in this adversity and still make a good NCAA run. Everyone else will have to step up a bit. They'll really have to pull together. But they do have the depth and the potential.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on February 25, 2007, 08:05:09 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 25, 2007, 07:56:10 PM
Don't expect Harris or Brummel back anytime soon.

Losing them hurts--a lot.

Still, the knights have a deep team. I wonder if they can pull together in this adversity and still make a good NCAA run. Everyone else will have to step up a bit. They'll really have to pull together. But they do have the depth and the potential.


I couldn't agree more.  It is very sad to lose two players in this manner.  Coach Ross said he'd rather lose by 40 points than to see these two young women get injured.

But, let's not give up on the rest fo the team.  Calvin is a deep and talented team and very well coached.  Oh, oh, I shouldn't have made that last comment because sac is probably going to think it's a slam against Hope's coach. :) ;) :D ;D >:( :( :o 8) ??? ::) :P :-[ :-X :-\ :-* :'(

Go Lady Knights!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 25, 2007, 08:33:54 PM
SAC and Dark Knight I could not agree more with your comments about the play that led to Harris' injury.  I have seen several similar situations this year where there was plenty of opportunity to call a jump ball, but instead the refs let the play proceed as more and more players get involved increasing the risk of injury.  Often the end result is a cheap foul or traveling call (as in the case of this play).  It makes me sick to see Harris with a serious injury well after the whistle should have ended the scrimmage.  I think all real fans want to see the game settled by the players.

Hopefully neither injury is as bad as feared and the recoveries will be quick and complete.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 25, 2007, 10:28:08 PM
Calvin is in  :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 26, 2007, 10:23:59 AM
Not sure from these brackets who got the worse deal Calvin or Hope.  I am sure Hope fans aren't wild about going back to De Pauw.  It is going to be very hard for Calvin to mount an effective tournament with key players missing.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 26, 2007, 11:13:18 AM
One of these deserved a hosting opportunity.  But at least they kept them apart and can't meet untill elite 8 if they advanced.


Hope at DePauw is a gentle reminder that the NCAA really doesn't care what we think.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dothedew on February 26, 2007, 12:25:22 PM
BOO FREAKIN' HISS to the NCAA for sending the Hope ladies to DePauw this year after the MESS that was last season. I was fortunate/unfortunate to see that elite 8 game and the mess it caused after the fact. We don't need to dive back into the argument...but for those of us that were there...it was CRAP!
DUMB/DUMB/DUMB.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: DPU3619 on February 26, 2007, 12:30:13 PM
Welcome back, friends!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: roaring0506 on February 26, 2007, 01:03:23 PM
Yes, welcome back. 

Quote from: dothedew on February 26, 2007, 12:25:22 PM
BOO FREAKIN' HISS to the NCAA for sending the Hope ladies to DePauw this year after the MESS that was last season. I was fortunate/unfortunate to see that elite 8 game and the mess it caused after the fact. We don't need to dive back into the argument...but for those of us that were there...it was CRAP!
DUMB/DUMB/DUMB.


I'm so glad the "saintly" fans from Hope are coming back down to Greencastle.  I laughed as soon as the pairings came out because I wondered how quickly the fans from Hope would jump up and down and throw a fit (Thanks for being the first dothedew).  It amazes me that you care to talk more about the fans' behavior than the actual game itself. 

To what MATTERS THE MOST!!!!! - The Game

Hope vs. Denison
DePauw vs. Transylvania

Should be some very competitive 1st and 2nd round games in Greencastle this Friday!

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 26, 2007, 05:54:43 PM
All MIAA team announced

Lisa Winkle, Calvin MVP

http://www.miaa.org/wbb/index.html
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 26, 2007, 06:48:46 PM
Julie Henderson - Defensive Player of the Year

Hope has played much better over the past couple of weeks and look to be peaking at just the right time.

A big part of the resurgence has been Henderson's all around play.  Her assist to turnover ratio has been good and her shot selection excellant.  If the posts are open she distributes the ball inside, but if the posts are covered she has found the open lane or Boyles open for the jumper.  Obviously, she has played good defense all year, but has really stepped it up to the next level the past two games.

Boyles has also been driving the basket with confidence and her three point touch has returned.

It is unlikely that the Dutch 4s and 5s will have to face the size / talent combination Calvin put on the floor last Saturday with Harris, Winkle and Willet in at the same time.  But with Henderson and Boyles at the top of their game, slowing Woods and Lange is certainly not a guaranteed route to victory.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 26, 2007, 11:51:49 PM
I think it took 2 days for those grapes to turn sour.  :P
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 27, 2007, 01:34:52 PM
Dark Knight I noticed Coach Morehouse voicing heated complaints to the refs on a couple of occasions, and from my vantage point it looked like some of the picks set to free up Winkle and Harris involved some grasping and foot sliding.

There are two posible conclusions to our observations; we either did not attend the same game....

or our view was clouded by our loyalties.

My physics is not good enough to justify the parallel universe theory, so my inclination is to go with the latter option.

I didn't see anything from either team that could be called dirty .... I saw two evenly matched teams that wanted to win contesting every play.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 27, 2007, 02:57:56 PM
Quote from: sac on February 26, 2007, 11:51:49 PM
I think it took 2 days for those grapes to turn sour.  :P

sac's grapes normally turn sour right away.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 27, 2007, 04:36:37 PM
Both coaches were talking with the refs most of the game.  I thought they were paid to do that.  Calvin's problem wasn't the officials, it was turnovers. :)  You can not reasonably expect to win a hotly contested game with that number of turnovers.   Calvin needed to protect, and value the ball, and failed to do so.  Points to Hope for knowing/exploiting a Calvin weakness.  Frankly, Calvin should expect to see all future teams pressure the ball.  A guard should not pick up the dribble without having an exit strategy for the ball ahead of time.
Calvin got beat by a team that simply did what it had to do to win the game.  Don't fault Hope or the refs. because we did not solve the problem. :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 27, 2007, 04:47:59 PM
Is there an official word on the injuries to Harris and Brummels? I know the consensus was serious, season ending injuries but has that been confirmed?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 27, 2007, 05:29:33 PM
I heard both Brummel and Harris are out with MCL injuries.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hoper Upper on February 28, 2007, 12:46:41 PM
An MCL injury is not as serious as an ACL injury.  Depending upon the severity of the MCL injury, it might be possible to play with a knee brace. 

According to my info, Brummel is out for the playoffs.  Harris might be able to play with a knee brace.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 28, 2007, 04:33:12 PM
I googled MCL injuries and found the following:

http://orthopedics.about.com/cs/kneeinjuries/a/mclinjury.htm

The article indicates that surgery is seldom required and depending on the severity, recovery can be fairly quick.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on February 28, 2007, 04:36:28 PM
Quote from: sac on February 26, 2007, 11:51:49 PM
I think it took 2 days for those grapes to turn sour.  :P

Sac--I'm not understanding your p.o.v.  On the previous page you summarized how that particular play could have been stopped by the refs stepping in before the injury occurred.  Hope's players were playing within what the refs would allow, DK is saying that he saw things that the refs should not have allowed.  I'm just not sure what is sour grapes about that.  
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 28, 2007, 05:28:35 PM
northb
Anyone who saw that play would never come to the conclusion it was a dirty play........not what Dark Knight was referring to either.   DK was referring to the overall game...........which I would never come close to describing as dirty.........in fact it wasn't nearly as physical as the Hope/Calvin game I saw in Holland.  DK's assertion that Hope played dirty I interpret as an attempt to downplay his teams loss, and an attempt to label a Hope team in a way that in no way should they be labled.

For what its worth, the Calvin girl got hurt when a teamate rolled over her, not a Hope player.

The sour grapes..........just my attempt at humor which seems to repeatedly sail over the heads of certain posters.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 01, 2007, 04:45:14 PM
Be sure to read the nice article on Willet, and Partridge in the Around the Nation section.  A very nice piece on two players being asked to step up their games. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on March 02, 2007, 05:41:05 PM
Well let's hope the MIAA is represented better at Wilmington and Aurora than at Greencastle.  Good grief!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 02, 2007, 05:44:20 PM
Wow, Hope 18 Denison 40, at the half.  Hope 6-27 (22%) for field goals. Denison 14-30 for 47%.

Calvin over Thomas More 15-5 about half way through the first half. Sounds like Thomas More is not used to the kind of defense the Knights are bringing.

Thomas More is double teaming Winkle at every opportunity.

Now 19-13. Winkle is getting triple-teamed and Calvin's three-point attempts aren't falling.

Walker got a 3, making it 24-15.

26-20 at the half.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 02, 2007, 05:47:34 PM
DK:  I am checking that out it just doesn't sound good for Hope.  I am sure they have a very hostle crowd in IN.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 02, 2007, 06:03:07 PM
Not sure Calvin has enough depth left to survive tonight.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 02, 2007, 06:10:11 PM
Hope 0-9 on 3's just not the women's night I guess.  It doesn't sound like it's getting any better.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 02, 2007, 06:23:33 PM
Calvin 34-25. It sounds like Winkle is getting tired.

13:52, Calvin up 38-27.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 02, 2007, 06:24:11 PM
Den 56 Hope 39  10 min.  Hope making a run.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 02, 2007, 06:25:39 PM
I think you are right.  Good to hear Partridge in.  Big problem for tomorrow if they survive tonight.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 02, 2007, 06:28:10 PM
Hope has several of the Denison women with 4 fouls.  Perhaps if they can get them out Hope has a chance.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 02, 2007, 06:40:42 PM
70 - 52.  One an done I am afraind for the Hope women.  Let's Hope this isn't some sort of omen for the MIAA.

Winkle a double double, and Calvin by 11 7:05 left.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 02, 2007, 06:49:10 PM
2:53 left, Calvin up 48-36.

2:00 left, 53-38.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 02, 2007, 06:51:00 PM
Very good season for the Hope women.  Hate to see it end this way, but they had a great couple of seasons.  Sadly the 3 just wasn't there today.  82-66
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: roaring0506 on March 02, 2007, 06:51:25 PM
Denison 82
Hope 66
Final
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 02, 2007, 06:52:34 PM
Calvin with 2 min. to go should survive if they keep making the ft's.  53-38.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 02, 2007, 06:57:24 PM
Great win for the lady Knights.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 02, 2007, 06:57:54 PM
53-38 Final! Knights move on, with a school record for most victories in a season. That's a better result than Massey's prediction, despite the shorter roster.

Lisa Winkle with 14 points and 13 rebounds, double-teamed the whole night. Zimmerman with 15.

Coach Ross told the team before the game that they need to hold Thomas More to 40 points. There going to need similar defensive efforts here on out.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 02, 2007, 08:04:57 PM
DK:  I bet it is quiet on this board for a while. :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flea on March 02, 2007, 08:09:26 PM
Quote from: realist on March 02, 2007, 06:51:00 PM
Very good season for the Hope women.  Hate to see it end this way, but they had a great couple of seasons.  Sadly the 3 just wasn't there today.  82-66

Amen.  The Dutch are a great team and had a great year.  Their MIAA Tourney Championship was a tremendous accomplishment.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 02, 2007, 08:36:45 PM
Looks like Calvin will face Wilmington in the 2nd round.  It would be nice if they could get a nice relaxing night of sleep.  I am sure we will see everyone key on Winkle.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 02, 2007, 08:41:12 PM
Quote from: realist on March 02, 2007, 08:36:45 PM
Looks like Calvin will face Wilmington in the 2nd round.  It would be nice if they could get a nice relaxing night of sleep.  I am sure we will see everyone key on Winkle.

I'll be curious to see the box score. But if teams continue to key on Winkle it'd help if the  rest of the team got hot from behind the arc again...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 02, 2007, 09:01:58 PM
Amen on that.  Zimmernan hit a couple key shots today.  Really need to see Partridge play more key minutes.  I think key is going to be defense, and Calvin protecting the ball.  If Calvin can rest Winkle some they should match up well with Wilmington.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 03, 2007, 08:44:52 PM
Calvin got way behind in the first half, but in the start of the second half, Calvin went on a 27-8 scoring run to take a 66-60 lead! Under 4 minutes to go. The knights finally got hot from behind the arc in the second half.

68-62, Winkle with 20 points.

Zimmerman missed a three, Wilmington made one. 68-66.

1:09 left, 1 point lead for Calvin.

70-67 Calvin, 44 seconds left! Time out Wilmington.

73-67 14 seconds left.

34-15 scoring run for Calvin over the last 15 minutes. Incredible!

Winkle blocked a three-point attempt, and Calvin is headed to the sweet 16! Final score 73-67.

22 points, 14 rebounds for Winkle.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 03, 2007, 09:04:02 PM
I say to my great shame and my great joy that Calvin's Lady Knights have made me out to be a fool :-[ ;D--not that I needed the help.  When Harris and Brummel went down I predicted the women's team wouldn't win a game in the NCAA. Now they're in the sweet 16. Impressive work by the Lady Knights and Coach Ross.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 03, 2007, 09:05:00 PM
Way to go Calvin women.   Fantastic finish.  I didn't think it could possibly happen, but they keep focused, and got the job done.
1 down, and 1 to go.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 03, 2007, 09:07:46 PM
The road only get tougher from here, but it is nice to see the Lady Knights be able to prove they are not a one dimension team. :)  Have to agree it sure sounds like winkle was playing on pure emotion.  No question she is one great player.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 03, 2007, 09:08:07 PM
Again, Calvin did about 8 points better than Massey's prediction -- even with the shortened roster.

Calvin will play either Southern Maine or Fitchburg St in the sweet 16. I think they should have a pretty good shot at either of those teams.

The sectional will also include Emmanuel and DePauw. If they have the sectional in Grand Rapids or Greencastle, IN, two teams will have to fly, and if they have the sectional in MA or ME, two teams will have to fly. So it doesn't really matter from that perspective who hosts.

So who's likely to get the nod?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 03, 2007, 11:13:40 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on March 03, 2007, 09:08:07 PM
Again, Calvin did about 8 points better than Massey's prediction -- even with the shortened roster.

Calvin will play either Southern Maine or Fitchburg St in the sweet 16. I think they should have a pretty good shot at either of those teams.

The sectional will also include Emmanuel and DePauw. If they have the sectional in Grand Rapids or Greencastle, IN, two teams will have to fly, and if they have the sectional in MA or ME, two teams will have to fly. So it doesn't really matter from that perspective who hosts.

So who's likely to get the nod?


In the last published results Calvin was ranked No. 1 in the Great Lakes region and DePauw was No. 2. I don't know whether Calvin's loss in the conference tourney moved them back a spot but if the NCAA takes Horace Greeley's advice it would seem to me that Calvin has a good shot at hosting. :-\
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 04, 2007, 08:03:40 AM
Quote from: oldknight on March 03, 2007, 11:13:40 PM
In the last published results Calvin was ranked No. 1 in the Great Lakes region and DePauw was No. 2. I don't know whether Calvin's loss in the conference tourney moved them back a spot but if the NCAA takes Horace Greeley's advice it would seem to me that Calvin has a good shot at hosting. :-\

"Go west, go west, like Horace Greeley sayst"? Don't forget that he descended into madness and died a bitter man. [Wikipedia rules! Like the Kronemeyer sisters!]

Calvin's loss to Hope in the MIAA tourney makes only one regional loss, to DePauw's three. But the last QOWI list had DePauw at 10.905, Calvin at 10.550.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WLCALUM83 on March 04, 2007, 02:50:40 PM
In a game that will determine Calvin's next opponent, Southern Maine is trailing Fitchburg State 31-30 at halftime.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Stinger on March 04, 2007, 03:13:38 PM
Emmanuel is the host. That's a heckuva way to travel. But, hey, a weekend in Boston? Can't beat it.  Good luck Calvin.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WLCALUM83 on March 04, 2007, 03:43:26 PM
Last I heard, Southern Maine is up 10 points on Fitchburg State late in that game. Fitchburg State's had a passel of players foul out. (Southern Maine feed kept breaking up on me-).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 04, 2007, 04:18:54 PM
Massey says Calvin over Southern Maine 69-59 on neutral wood (using ratings that don't account for the last two games).

Average power rating for last two games:

Calvin 20.0
Southern Maine 6.8
DePauw 16.5
Emmanuel 8.7


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: knightrider on March 04, 2007, 06:23:57 PM
Does any one else think that Calvin got a little screwed having to travel instead of host?  They are the highest ranked team of the four, but instead the lowest ranked team of the four is hosting.  OUt of the four the only places that I thought it could have been was Calvin and DePauw, with Calvin getting the edge because of regional ranking and because they have an airport.  From where I am sitting, there isn't much justification for having Emmanuel host because two teams have to fly either way.  I just think that it is a little odd that they aren't hosting, and if you think about last year, Hope didn't host either on their tournament run, given the guys hosted the first couple rounds, but that shouldn't have mattered after the first rounds.  They were the higher seed and were given a harder road.  They shouldn't have had to go to Capital and then DePauw last year and Calvin shouldn't be going to Emmanuel this year.  Just my thoughts, what do the rest think?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: DePauw05 on March 04, 2007, 06:24:45 PM
Can someone enlighten me on the wisdom behind sending Calvin, Southern Maine, and DePauw to lowest seed Emmanuel in Boston on Friday?   I doubt it had to do with cost effectiveness of travel to Boston as flights appear to be $800 to $1,000, and hotel rates are likely higher in Boston as well.  Although I'm a biased DePauw fan, I thought Calvin or DePauw would have made more sense as hosts since both are ranked higher and it's a two school flight situation no matter who hosts.  
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: DePauw05 on March 04, 2007, 06:26:48 PM
was typing when you posted, knightrider.  I agree
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 05, 2007, 12:08:31 AM
I have to say I would have lost a lot of money betting that Hope would get further than Calvin in the tournament after the injuries.  Congrats to the Knights thats a nice accomplishment. 

This is the 8th time an MIAA time has made sectionals, but very impressively its the 7th time in 9 years and 3rd year in a row.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 05, 2007, 02:18:05 AM
Quote from: DePauw05 on March 04, 2007, 06:24:45 PM
Can someone enlighten me on the wisdom behind sending Calvin, Southern Maine, and DePauw to lowest seed Emmanuel in Boston on Friday? 

Sure. Emmanuel is not actually the lowest seed in the NCAA's eye. They're the highest.

Those who were quoting QOWI and regional winning percentage earlier in comparing DePauw and Calvin might want to check what Emmanuel's numbers are.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 06, 2007, 11:39:09 AM
Congrats to Calvin's Lisa Winkle - Josten award winner for 2007!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 06, 2007, 12:03:21 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 06, 2007, 11:39:09 AM
Congrats to Calvin's Lisa Winkle - Josten award winner for 2007!!

Wow, that's a great honor. Well-deserved, too.

The Grand Rapids Press had an article  (http://www.mlive.com/search/index.ssf?/base/sports-5/1173102902309990.xml?grpress?SPSM&coll=6&thispage=2)yesterday saying that Winkle was very sick last weekend while doing double duty in the post (and bed-ridden on Sunday). She asked to be taken out at one point because if she didn't sit down, she was sure her "head was going to explode."

The article also said that the Knights "launched an uncharacteristic 30 3-point field-goal attempts--and made 8--to beat Wilmington." 

'"I was wondering where that came from," Calvin coach John Ross said. "But Lindsey Peuler, one of our defensive stoppers, came in and drained three big 3s for us.'

The Knights are going to need continued stepping-up in order to keep playing.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 06, 2007, 12:15:47 PM
congrats to Lisa Winkle.

I don't recall an MIAA player winning a jostens award before.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 06, 2007, 01:09:52 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on March 06, 2007, 12:03:21 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 06, 2007, 11:39:09 AM
Congrats to Calvin's Lisa Winkle - Josten award winner for 2007!!

Wow, that's a great honor. Well-deserved, too.

The Grand Rapids Press had an article  (http://www.mlive.com/search/index.ssf?/base/sports-5/1173102902309990.xml?grpress?SPSM&coll=6&thispage=2)yesterday saying that Winkle was very sick last weekend while doing double duty in the post (and bed-ridden on Sunday). She asked to be taken out at one point because if she didn't sit down, she was sure her "head was going to explode."

The article also said that the Knights "launched an uncharacteristic 30 3-point field-goal attempts--and made 8--to beat Wilmington." 

'"I was wondering where that came from," Calvin coach John Ross said. "But Lindsey Peuler, one of our defensive stoppers, came in and drained three big 3s for us.'

The Knights are going to need continued stepping-up in order to keep playing.


And to think Lisa--while sick--played 35 minutes of ball in a close, intense, must-win game scoring 22 points (6-13 from the floor, 10-10 from the stripe), grabbed 13 rebounds and blocked 2 shots. Mighty impressive numbers if she had been healthy but under the circumstances downright Jordanesque.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 06, 2007, 02:37:23 PM
Excellent, excellent award for Lisa, and Calvin, and the entire MIAA.  Of all the post season awards that can be given out I think this one indicates truely what the D3 athlete is.  She has had an excellent career.  It is going to be tough for Calvin to replace her next year.
I do not recall any other MIAA students winning this award.  Not even sure how many have been one of the finalist.   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 06, 2007, 02:59:35 PM
Quote from: realist on March 06, 2007, 02:37:23 PM
Excellent, excellent award for Lisa, and Calvin, and the entire MIAA.  Of all the post season awards that can be given out I think this one indicates truely what the D3 athlete is.  She has had an excellent career.  It is going to be tough for Calvin to replace her next year.
I do not recall any other MIAA students winning this award.  Not even sure how many have been one of the finalist.   

Ironically, another Winkle (Aaron) was a finalist in 2000 but Korey Coon of Illinois Wesleyan won that year in the men's division. The only other MIAA student athlete I could find who was ever nominated for the award was Jeff Bell of Olivet in 1999.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 06, 2007, 03:44:23 PM
Thanks OK:  I sort of remembered Aaron being nominated, but wasn't 100 % sure.  Either way it is a great award, going to a very deserving person.  Hopefully Lisa will miss the award ceremony in Salem because she has more important things to do. :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: goodknight on March 06, 2007, 04:33:30 PM
Lisa  ;) le for President! ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 06, 2007, 04:51:35 PM
Quote from: goodknight on March 06, 2007, 04:33:30 PM
Lisa  ;) le for President! ;)

That might be the :D est post in D3 hoops history but it's still worthy of + k. ::)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on March 06, 2007, 05:21:18 PM
Quote from: goodknight on March 06, 2007, 04:33:30 PM
Lisa  ;) le for President! ;)

took me a minute, but +k
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: goodknight on March 06, 2007, 09:47:19 PM
Quote from: oldknight on March 06, 2007, 04:51:35 PM
Quote from: goodknight on March 06, 2007, 04:33:30 PM
Lisa  ;) le for President! ;)

That might be the :D est post in D3 hoops history but it's still worthy of + k. ::)

:D is goudaknight's middle name.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 06, 2007, 10:13:47 PM
Quote from: goodknight on March 06, 2007, 09:47:19 PM
Quote from: oldknight on March 06, 2007, 04:51:35 PM
Quote from: goodknight on March 06, 2007, 04:33:30 PM
Lisa  ;) le for President! ;)

That might be the :D est post in D3 hoops history but it's still worthy of + k. ::)

:D is goudaknight's middle name.

Only a Frisian would try and Sneek that comment past OldKnight. ::)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: strikingviking on March 06, 2007, 11:35:38 PM
Congrats to Calvin on a great year!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 07, 2007, 07:49:01 PM
Gosh; one sure doesn't see many posts from Hope fans in here lately.  Go figure!!! :) ;) :D ;D ???
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WLCALUM83 on March 07, 2007, 08:23:39 PM
Perhaps most of them are now focused on the Hope men's team.  :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on March 07, 2007, 09:43:58 PM
Quote from: oldknight on March 06, 2007, 10:13:47 PM
Quote from: goodknight on March 06, 2007, 09:47:19 PM
Quote from: oldknight on March 06, 2007, 04:51:35 PM
Quote from: goodknight on March 06, 2007, 04:33:30 PM
Lisa  ;) le for President! ;)

That might be the :D est post in D3 hoops history but it's still worthy of + k. ::)

:D is goudaknight's middle name.

Only a Frisian would try and Sneek that comment past OldKnight. ::)

I'm gonna groan-again
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 07, 2007, 11:12:10 PM
Quote from: realist on March 07, 2007, 07:49:01 PM
Gosh; one sure doesn't see many posts from Hope fans in here lately.  Go figure!!! :) ;) :D ;D ???

Shockingly, the absense of Calvin posters on the men's board is also noted! ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: goodknight on March 07, 2007, 11:14:23 PM
Quote from: sac on March 07, 2007, 11:12:10 PM
Quote from: realist on March 07, 2007, 07:49:01 PM
Gosh; one sure doesn't see many posts from Hope fans in here lately.  Go figure!!! :) ;) :D ;D ???

Shockingly, the absense of Calvin posters on the men's board is also noted! ;)

We get a little queasy when FDF slips on the brass knuckles... ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WLCALUM83 on March 08, 2007, 06:55:59 AM
Quote from: sac on March 07, 2007, 11:12:10 PM
Quote from: realist on March 07, 2007, 07:49:01 PM
Gosh; one sure doesn't see many posts from Hope fans in here lately.  Go figure!!! :) ;) :D ;D ???

Shockingly, the absense of Calvin posters on the men's board is also noted! ;)

Perhaps after the 2 men's teams met 5 times in the same season, could it be many of you feel "rivalried-out" (at least for this season?) :D (ba dumm bumm!)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 08, 2007, 08:28:59 AM
Quote from: sac on March 07, 2007, 11:12:10 PM
Quote from: realist on March 07, 2007, 07:49:01 PM
Gosh; one sure doesn't see many posts from Hope fans in here lately.  Go figure!!! :) ;) :D ;D ???

Shockingly, the absense of Calvin posters on the men's board is also noted! ;)

Why murder someone already in the process of committing suicide? ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: atn alum on March 08, 2007, 12:32:24 PM
Sorry to interrupt the fun chatter...

If you can't make it on Friday or Saturday, and have any trouble getting Calvin's audio feed, please tune in to us:

We'll have all 3 games
http://www.d3hoops.com/audio

* Calvin vs Southern Maine
* Emmanuel vs DePauw
* Saturday's sectional final

Coverage on Friday starts at 5:15pm, Saturday at 6:45 ET

Feel free to e-mail us at cgbears2006@aol.com

and if you're at the game, feel free to say hello. Enjoy Boston!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: strikingviking on March 08, 2007, 01:07:45 PM
Best of luck to John Ross and his Calvin women!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 08, 2007, 04:32:39 PM
Quote from: strikingviking on March 08, 2007, 01:07:45 PM
Best of luck to John Ross and his Calvin women!!!

Good luck to the basketball team too!    :P
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 08, 2007, 04:34:30 PM
Quote from: goodknight on March 07, 2007, 11:14:23 PM
Quote from: sac on March 07, 2007, 11:12:10 PM
Quote from: realist on March 07, 2007, 07:49:01 PM
Gosh; one sure doesn't see many posts from Hope fans in here lately.  Go figure!!! :) ;) :D ;D ???

Shockingly, the absense of Calvin posters on the men's board is also noted! ;)

We get a little queasy when FDF slips on the brass knuckles... ;)

That's strange - most people get quesy when I slip on the orange shorts  :-[
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 08, 2007, 04:42:09 PM
FDF: Don't stop now; you're on a roll. 8)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 08, 2007, 10:42:20 PM
Best of luck to lady Knights, keep the feel good story going,

Its been proven it can be done. ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: goodknight on March 09, 2007, 08:49:13 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 08, 2007, 04:34:30 PM
Quote from: goodknight on March 07, 2007, 11:14:23 PM
Quote from: sac on March 07, 2007, 11:12:10 PM
Quote from: realist on March 07, 2007, 07:49:01 PM
Gosh; one sure doesn't see many posts from Hope fans in here lately.  Go figure!!! :) ;) :D ;D ???


Shockingly, the absense of Calvin posters on the men's board is also noted! ;)

We get a little queasy when FDF slips on the brass knuckles... ;)

That's strange - most people get quesy when I slip on the orange shorts  :-[
Not to mention when they're slipping off... :o
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on March 09, 2007, 11:14:57 AM
Quote from: goodknight on March 09, 2007, 08:49:13 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 08, 2007, 04:34:30 PM
Quote from: goodknight on March 07, 2007, 11:14:23 PM
Quote from: sac on March 07, 2007, 11:12:10 PM
Quote from: realist on March 07, 2007, 07:49:01 PM
Gosh; one sure doesn't see many posts from Hope fans in here lately.  Go figure!!! :) ;) :D ;D ???


Shockingly, the absense of Calvin posters on the men's board is also noted! ;)

We get a little queasy when FDF slips on the brass knuckles... ;)

That's strange - most people get quesy when I slip on the orange shorts  :-[
Not to mention when they're slipping off... :o

ewwwwwww...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 12:23:20 PM
The MIAA website has the wrong time posted for the Calvin game tonight.  I have looked for a live stat or scoreboard for the game tonight, and do not find one.   I think Calvin is really going to have their hands full tonight.  A key to this weekend is going to be if Calvin can protect the ball, and rest Lisa periodically.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 09, 2007, 01:19:57 PM
Quote from: realist on March 09, 2007, 12:23:20 PM
The MIAA website has the wrong time posted for the Calvin game tonight.  I have looked for a live stat or scoreboard for the game tonight, and do not find one.   I think Calvin is really going to have their hands full tonight.  A key to this weekend is going to be if Calvin can protect the ball, and rest Lisa periodically.

The Calvin website has the Lady Knights playing in the first game set for 5:30 while the MIAA site has them playing the second game. I assume that Calvin's listing is the correct one.

Just out of curiosity I checked out Southern Maine's season statistics and I also looked at the box score of last season's championship game against Hope. Based on the box score it looks to me that Hope primarily won the game on the boards because the biggest disparity in the box is that statistic. Hope won the boards 52-38 while most other stats in the box were reasonably close. Hope did shoot a little better  (37% to 33%) but both teams made three shots from beyond the arc so it doesn't look like the shooting was the decisive factor.

This year's team is led in scoring by Marble at 22.8 and Kent at 10.8. Hope limited Marble to 8 points last year, but she had 15 boards so it appears that how well or poorly Calvin handles her may be a determining factor. Marble is listed as only 5'9" so I assume she is very athletic and aggressive. Last year's Huskies' team was led in scoring against Hope by Myles (23) and Frost (13) but neither appear on this year's roster. However Kent is a new addition--and apparently a good one--because she has made 53 shots from beyond the arc on very impressive 45% shooting from that range. Obviously she is a dangerous player.

I found it interesting that in last year's championship game only one non-starter played more than 3 minutes for Southern Maine so unless they've improved their bench it appears the Huskies aren't deep--especially when you realize that two important scorers from last year's championship are no longer playing for the Huskies. Hopefully foul trouble and/or fatigue will be an issue for them. If the Lady Knights can stay within striking distance the last 5 minutes they would seem to have a chance to win.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Preto on March 09, 2007, 01:36:56 PM
It's 5:30 p.m.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: feces monkey on March 09, 2007, 01:40:28 PM
http://sports.mainetoday.com/college/basketball-women/070309usm.html

FYI...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: roaring0506 on March 09, 2007, 05:47:58 PM
Calvin 15
S. Maine 11
14:00 1st half
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 05:49:12 PM
Marble is everything they said she was.  Hope held her to 8 points last year.  Calvin hasn't slowed her down much.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: roaring0506 on March 09, 2007, 05:55:40 PM
Calvin 19
So. Maine  18

8:05 1st half
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 05:58:33 PM
The turnovers are a big concern.  Calvin has to make each possesion count.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 06:01:25 PM
26-18 Calvin up.  Marble is out
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: roaring0506 on March 09, 2007, 06:05:16 PM
Calvin 31
So. Maine 20
2:00 1st
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 06:05:38 PM
Calvin 31 to 20.  No lead would be large enough.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 06:10:13 PM
Calvin 33   to 24  at the half.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 09, 2007, 06:13:03 PM
From Mark Simon's broadcast on d3hoops it sounds like Southern Maine is struggling with Calvin's size and Calvin is struggling to guard Marble.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 06:33:15 PM
Not good 3 fouls on Winkle.  They still haven't figured out how to stop Marble.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 06:39:33 PM
If Calvin could take advantage of the SMU turnovers they would be in much better shape.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 06:40:41 PM
Marble with 25 points, and Calvin turns it over.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: roaring0506 on March 09, 2007, 06:41:25 PM
It's tied up....  44-44
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 06:41:40 PM
Tied at 44.  2 quick 3's, and all Calvin can do is turnovers.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 06:44:46 PM
SMU 11 straight points.  Where is Winkle?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: roaring0506 on March 09, 2007, 06:46:16 PM
Uh oh... Winkle #4
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 06:46:40 PM
Winkle back to the bench with 4 fouls.  this doesn't look good.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: roaring0506 on March 09, 2007, 06:48:15 PM
big shot for Calvin.... down 1
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 06:51:29 PM
Calvin down by 2.  4 minutes to go.  thank goodness Van Eck came to play.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 06:54:11 PM
53-53 and a turnover.  Calvin just can't get any distance on SMU.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 06:56:53 PM
56-54  Calvin by 2.  Winkle back in.  Really need several defensive stops.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 06:59:46 PM
Winkle out with 1 min. 30 to go.  Darn :)  Calvin up by 2
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: roaring0506 on March 09, 2007, 07:00:14 PM
Calvin better hope for no overtime
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 07:01:07 PM
Marble 34 points.  31 seconds left
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 07:02:56 PM
Not the way I really wanted to see this game go.
Van Eck foul.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 07:04:18 PM
Marble misses 2 ft's 
Zimmerman to the line  Calvin by 3
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 07:04:51 PM
6.8 seconds.  Partridge to the line.
We need this.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 07:05:55 PM
60 - 56 6.8 seconds left.  Really could have used the first ft by Partridge.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 07:07:05 PM
Calvin wins.  On to the elite 8 ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 07:08:14 PM
Great win for the Knights.  Especially with Lisa in foul trouble much of the 2nd half.
It doesn't get much better than this.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 09, 2007, 07:12:50 PM
For much of the second half, with Winkle on the bench, Calvin was missing three of their top three scorers. Freshman Brook VanEck was the Knight's scoring leader for this game. Sounds like she had some power post moves. Coach Ross called it probably the best game of her life.

Lisa Winkle with another double-double, 13 points and 13 rebounds.

Amazing performance by Ashley Marble (sp?), eh?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 09, 2007, 07:19:04 PM
VanEck came up huge down the stetch for Calvin. She's terribly undersized for the college game but she's fearless. I saw her play many times in high school and she was always a clutch player.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 09, 2007, 07:24:07 PM
Coach Ross took responsibility for S. Maine's big run at the start of the second half. At half time Ross told them to double Marble whenever possible, and that resulted in several other players scoring lots of points, fast. Then they stopped doubling and SM's run slowed.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 07:30:52 PM
I thought those were interesting comments.  Good idea for the coach to take the blame for some lapses.  He really has done a good job with this team.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: usmhoops1 on March 09, 2007, 08:17:17 PM
Congrats to Calvin.  I will miss not seeing our Huskies in Springfield, but Calvin was the better team today. Good luck tomorrow vs either Depauw or Emmanual.  Enjoy Boston. Some great restaurants and sites to see.  Probably a few Red Sox fans around too !!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flea on March 09, 2007, 08:42:58 PM
Quote from: realist on March 09, 2007, 07:07:05 PM
Calvin wins.  On to the elite 8 ;D

If Calvin gets through the round of 8 will there be enough time for the two bad knees to heal?  Will Harris and/or Brummel be back of the semis?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on March 09, 2007, 08:49:56 PM
Congratulations coach John Ross and the Lady Knights.  A very classy program!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: doc on March 09, 2007, 08:59:16 PM
Quote from: Flea on March 09, 2007, 08:42:58 PM
Quote from: realist on March 09, 2007, 07:07:05 PM
Calvin wins.  On to the elite 8 ;D

If Calvin gets through the round of 8 will there be enough time for the two bad knees to heal?  Will Harris and/or Brummel be back of the semis?

Everything I've heard and read calls the MCL injuries to both of them "season ending."
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 09:02:36 PM
Looks like Calvin is going to get Dep tomorrow.  They are really handling Emmanuel easily.  I remember last year Dep gave Hope a run, but that game was in IN.  The Hope fans there were not at all impressed with the fans, and students.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on March 09, 2007, 09:52:21 PM
Quote from: realist on March 09, 2007, 09:02:36 PM
Looks like Calvin is going to get Dep tomorrow.  They are really handling Emmanuel easily.  I remember last year Dep gave Hope a run, but that game was in IN.  The Hope fans there were not at all impressed with the fans, and students.

That is a bit of an understatement as I recall.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 09, 2007, 10:08:50 PM
DePauw will be Calvin's toughest challenge to date, according to Massey--who also says that with Howard Payne out, DePauw is the highest-rated remaning team.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: roaring0506 on March 09, 2007, 10:26:08 PM
As we've seen so far in this tournament, I think we can just throw out all the rankings/ratings.  Anyone can in this year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: atn alum on March 10, 2007, 12:59:57 AM
hey folks

thanks for listening to our broadcast...getting a kick out of reading the updates...

enjoy the sectional title game. DePauw reminds me a lot of Hope '06, from the 2 games i saw of them
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 10, 2007, 08:43:01 AM
Quote from: atnwriter on March 10, 2007, 12:59:57 AM
hey folks

thanks for listening to our broadcast...getting a kick out of reading the updates...

enjoy the sectional title game. DePauw reminds me a lot of Hope '06, from the 2 games i saw of them

A big thanks and tip of the hat to everyone at d3hoops for the all the broadcasts being provided. All the announcers I've listened to have done an excellent job and have conveyed the excitement of the games to the listener very well. I'm really impressed.

It's my "hope" that DePauw reminding you of Hope '06 doesn't extend to the final result of tonight's game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 10, 2007, 10:14:08 AM
No doubt Calvin is going to have to be firing on all cylinders tonight to have much of a chance.  Spreading the scoring around has worked well, and especially since the bench is really stepping up.  My biggest worry is still the tendency to have turnovers.  I think Calvin can beat Depauw, but only if they play their best 40 minutes of bball.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 10, 2007, 11:14:20 AM
Quote from: realist on March 10, 2007, 10:14:08 AM
No doubt Calvin is going to have to be firing on all cylinders tonight to have much of a chance.  Spreading the scoring around has worked well, and especially since the bench is really stepping up.  My biggest worry is still the tendency to have turnovers.  I think Calvin can beat Depauw, but only if they play their best 40 minutes of bball.

A look at the stat sheets for Depauw support realist's statements. Depauw did to Emmanauel what the Tigers have been doing to opponents all year--outshooting their opponents from the floor and hammering them on the boards. Depauw's combined season statistics show they have shot quite a bit better than their opponents (47% to 37%) and clobbered the opposition by 11 (40 to 29) in rebounding. Those are pretty impressive numbers. Depauw also distributes their minutes all around with an amazing 11 players averaging at least 11 minutes of PT per game (and 8 with at least 15) so don't look for Calvin to tire them out tonight. Like Calvin, Depauw spreads around the scoring with Liz Bondi being Depauw's only double figure scorer at 15.3. In many ways they mirror Calvin's team--a deep team that outshoots and outrebounds their opponent--but with more impressive numbers than Calvin. Calvin also outshot their opponents by quite a bit (45.7% to 34.9%) but didn't outrebound their opponents like Depauw with the Lady Knights gathering only 3 more per game than their opposition. Surprisingly, these two teams had no common opponents this year so it's hard to be sure if Depauw is really a better rebounding team than Calvin or if the Tigers played a weaker schedule. I did see that in last year's tournament game against Hope, the Lady Dutch outrebounded Depauw by a significant margin (52-34) so maybe Depauw didn't see as many good teams as Calvin did this year (maybe a Hope poster who saw last year's game can weigh in). But all in all, it seems the Lady Knights have their work cut out for them. Unfortunately, I'll be gone tonight without internet access and won't get back until very late so I won't be able to follow what's happening. I'm relying on others to give me their take on the game which I'll read later.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 10, 2007, 06:55:57 PM
Is there a live scoreboard for this game?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: roaring0506 on March 10, 2007, 06:58:51 PM
wasn't yesterday.. so I would assume no.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on March 10, 2007, 07:35:56 PM
Depauw up 28-20 at the half.  Winkle has 80% of the Knights point total.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on March 10, 2007, 08:16:51 PM
Slipping away from Calvin 12-0 run for Depauw, up by 18 with 6:45 to go
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on March 10, 2007, 09:46:54 PM
Congrats to the Lady Knights.  A really good year for them!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 11, 2007, 12:41:26 AM
Yes, indeed.  A great year for the women.  They did everything anyone could have expected, and frankly even more.  Losing so much firepower to knee problems at the worst time of the year hurts.  With the way everything was going, and has turned out it could well have been there year.  I don't think we have heard the last from these ladies, but it will be tough to replace a super star like Lisa.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on March 11, 2007, 06:12:05 PM
Congratulations to the Knights on another successful season.  And special recognition to coach John Ross, who has now compiled a record of 99-17 (85.3%) in the four years he has coached at Calvin.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 14, 2007, 07:58:31 AM
3 MIAA players on D3hoops.com All-region teams

http://d3hoops.com/all-region/07/glakewom.htm
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: goodknight on March 14, 2007, 11:02:14 AM
Quote from: sac on March 14, 2007, 07:58:31 AM
3 MIAA players on D3hoops.com All-region teams

http://d3hoops.com/all-region/07/glakewom.htm

And a coach......


Congratulations to John Ross and Lisa Winkle.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on March 14, 2007, 10:19:20 PM
Congratulations to Calvin College for placing two players on DIII All-America teams, Lisa Winkle and Marcia Harris.  Both, very well deserved recognitions.  And, a special tribute to coach John Ross for being named coach of the year!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on March 14, 2007, 10:39:51 PM
Quote from: wizardry on March 14, 2007, 10:19:20 PM
Congratulations to Calvin College for placing two players on DIII All-America teams, Lisa Winkle and Marcia Harris.  Both, very well deserved recognitions.  And, a special tribute to coach John Ross for being named coach of the year!

I know it's technically "all-region" but they're "all-america" to me.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 16, 2007, 07:57:52 AM
From the Holland Sentinel this morning:

Referee to work first Final Four
Brad Duistermars gets call for NCAA Division III women's hoops tourney

http://hollandsentinel.com/stories/031607/localsports_20070316038.shtml

Didn't see Brad work in any games during the season, but he did ref one game at Hope during the MIAA tourney.  Very nice for the former Holland Christian and Hope player.  Too bad neither Hope nor Calvin could keep winning and join him there.   :-\
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 17, 2007, 04:57:47 PM
DePauw just beat Wash U 55-52 to win the National Championship.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 18, 2007, 02:42:03 PM
It is interesting that Depauw wins the women's title this year.  It is sort of bitter sweet in a way.  One can't help but wonder if this would have been Calvin's year had it not been for the season ending injures of Harrris and Brummel.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 18, 2007, 05:12:35 PM
I thought the same thing -- that Calvin at full strength could probably have beat DePauw. Can't be too sad about another elite-8 finish, though. The playoff run showed a lot of determination.

Next year the Knights will obviously miss Lisa Winkle, but if Harris and Brummel come back full strength, I'd think the Knights should be at least as strong as this year's elite-8 tournament edition. Especially with the year of experience for this year's crop of freshmen.

N.B. Harris and Brummel have both had their surgeries now.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 18, 2007, 05:16:25 PM
Congrats to Lisa Winkle for making d3hoops.com's 3rd-team All American list.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 19, 2007, 03:16:10 PM
Lisa sure has deserved all the honors that have come her way.  It would be hard to find a better person, student, and athlete.  I sort of assume she isn't done yet, and we will see her name regarding the track team this spring. :)  It will be interesting to see how things shake out for the team next fall.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bob MacKenzie on March 19, 2007, 03:59:58 PM
Quote from: realist on March 18, 2007, 02:42:03 PM
It is interesting that Depauw wins the women's title this year.  It is sort of bitter sweet in a way.  One can't help but wonder if this would have been Calvin's year had it not been for the season ending injures of Harrris and Brummel.

2006 Hope beats Depauw in regional final and goes on to win championship
2007 Depauw beats Calvin in regional final and goes on to win championship
2008 Calvin beats....? 

If they get there, it won't be a long commute for Calvin fans (although still longer than for Hope fans).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: goodknight on March 20, 2007, 09:51:03 AM
Quote from: Bob MacKenzie on March 19, 2007, 03:59:58 PM
Quote from: realist on March 18, 2007, 02:42:03 PM
It is interesting that Depauw wins the women's title this year.  It is sort of bitter sweet in a way.  One can't help but wonder if this would have been Calvin's year had it not been for the season ending injures of Harrris and Brummel.

2006 Hope beats Depauw in regional final and goes on to win championship
2007 Depauw beats Calvin in regional final and goes on to win championship
2008 Calvin beats....? 

If they get there, it won't be a long commute for Calvin fans (although still longer than for Hope fans).

Bobby:  We've missed ye!
Welcome back to the board -- and just in time for the long off-season lull. ???
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bob MacKenzie on March 20, 2007, 12:50:52 PM
Quote from: goodknight link=topic=4515.msg701159#msg701159
/quote]

Bobby:  We've missed ye!
Welcome back to the board -- and just in time for the long off-season lull. ???

I've been lurking around, GK.  Just haven't had much intelligent to add from 800 miles away.  (not that that seems to always be a requirement) ::)

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on August 23, 2007, 02:09:12 PM
Lisa Winkle is one of the athletes featured in Sports Illustrated's "Faces in the Crowd" in the 8/27/07 issue.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on August 23, 2007, 02:34:33 PM
Quote from: almcguirejr on August 23, 2007, 02:09:12 PM
Lisa Winkle is one of the athletes featured in Sports Illustrated's "Faces in the Crowd" in the 8/27/07 issue.

That's awesome!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on September 10, 2007, 02:33:23 PM
Word on the men's discussion board is that Carrie Snikkers has enrolled at Hope (from Unity Christian).  She's still listed on the Oakland roster for 07-08, but apparently decided to come to Hope instead.  A 6'3" freshman center  - who was the Class B player of the year for 06.  If this is true, she would be a great addition for the Flying Dutch
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on September 10, 2007, 06:51:21 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on September 10, 2007, 02:33:23 PM
Word on the men's discussion board is that Carrie Snikkers has enrolled at Hope (from Unity Christian).  She's still listed on the Oakland roster for 07-08, but apparently decided to come to Hope instead.  A 6'3" freshman center  - who was the Class B player of the year for 06.  If this is true, she would be a great addition for the Flying Dutch

She's an extraordinary talent and if she stays 4 years at Hope the Lady Dutch are all but certain to reach at least one Final Four (and likely more) during her time in Holland. In fact I'll go further than that and predict at least one more championship banner in Holland if she plays four years for Hope. She would mean as much to Hope's women's basketball of this generation as Mark Veenstra did for Calvin's men's teams of the 70's. That would be quite ironic considering both graduated from the same high school.

P.S.  I find it hard to believe she will play four years at the D3 level.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Grutte Dirk on September 11, 2007, 01:05:42 PM
Big MIAA volleyball match-up tonight. 

Calvin v. Adrian at Calvin at 6:30 p.m.  An Adrian win would be huge for the Bulldogs.  I see the Knights ripe for the fall.  They have huge games this weekend in Ohio and could be over-looking tonight's MIAA match-up.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Grutte Dirk on September 11, 2007, 01:16:35 PM
Quote from: hoopdreams on September 08, 2007, 07:59:24 PM
I was just told that another snikkers, Carrie, is enrolled at Hope as well. Didn't like Oakland at all and will play for the Dutch!

Quote from: hope81 on September 10, 2007, 12:49:46 PM
So here's a question.  I think Carrie Snikkers was runner-up for the Michigan Miss Bball award last year.  How many (let's say top 3 finishers) Mr. (or Miss) Bball's have played in the MIAA before?  I don't know the answer....just wondering if there were any others?

Quote from: SBell on September 10, 2007, 05:41:23 PM
The Oakland website says she was runner-up for Miss Basketball. Of course, the Miss Basketball voting is  more sketchy, uninformed and political than even the Mr. Basketball voting, so who knows what that position means, excactly.

Hope's loaded.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on September 11, 2007, 09:14:04 PM
Quote from: oldknight on September 10, 2007, 06:51:21 PM

She's an extraordinary talent and if she stays 4 years at Hope the Lady Dutch are all but certain to reach at least one Final Four (and likely more) during her time in Holland. In fact I'll go further than that and predict at least one more championship banner in Holland if she plays four years for Hope. She would mean as much to Hope's women's basketball of this generation as Mark Veenstra did for Calvin's men's teams of the 70's. That would be quite ironic considering both graduated from the same high school.

P.S.  I find it hard to believe she will play four years at the D3 level.

Pretty bold considering how hard it is to get to a final four. :D  She should be a wonderfull player for Hope........but like you I'd be surprised if she finished at Hope.  I'm guessing her late decision to leave Oakland left her with only D3 as a true option.  I've personally never heard of a player leaving before even one day of classes.  Kind of strange.

As far as her impact on the team though, she simply replaces Ellen Wood, joining Lindsay Lange and the promising Emily O'Hare on the baseline.  So really Hope goes back to having a deep front line, when they wouldn't have had one this year.  From what I've heard though her talent seems to be above what you'd expect at the D3 level.  6-3 is very tall for this level.

Don't forget Hope graduated four very good Seniors in Wood, Jurik, Bossard and Henderson, and will graduate Lange, Warsen and Boles this year.  Thats alot of really good players leaving the program in a short period of time.


But hey, it would be awesome to host a couple late March games in DeVos.


PS  I can't believe Morehouse is starting his 12th season at Hope.  wow, do I feel up there in age. ;)
Title: Re: MIAA Volleyball
Post by: Dark Knight on September 11, 2007, 09:53:14 PM
Quote from: Bilk on September 11, 2007, 01:05:42 PM
Big MIAA volleyball match-up tonight. 

Calvin v. Adrian at Calvin at 6:30 p.m.  An Adrian win would be huge for the Bulldogs.  I see the Knights ripe for the fall.  They have huge games this weekend in Ohio and could be over-looking tonight's MIAA match-up.

Well, the Knights do have two huge matches coming up against #18 Ohio Northern and #1 Wittenberg this weekend, but that didn't slow them down today. They handled previously-unbeaten-in-the-conference Adrian easily. Last year's stars are taking up where they left off last fall, and freshman Kim Wigboldy had 10 kills.
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Preto on September 11, 2007, 10:03:00 PM
6   Katie Zondervan   Sr.   S   5-6   Lakewood, CA/Valley Christian
7   Kayla Hollenbeck   Fr.   MH   6-1   Hudsonville/Hudsonville
8   Jessica Garlick   Jr.   S/RS   5-11   Portage/Kalamazoo Christian
9   Kelsey Sears   So.   DS/L   5-6   Traverse City/Traverse City West
10   Rachel DeYoung   So.   OH   5-10   Hudsonville/Unity Christian
11   Katie Corbett   So.   OH/DS   5-8   St. Joseph/Stevensville-Lakeshore
12   Carolyn Nelson   Fr.   S   5-9   Milan/Milan
13   Kristen Kalb   Sr.   OH   5-9   Stow, OH/Stow-Munroe Falls
14   Kim Wigboldy   Fr.   OH   5-9   Scottsdale, AZ/Valley Christian
17   Molly Krikke   Sr.   MH   5-11   Greenwich, OH/South Central
18   Sara Kramer   So.   OH   5-11   Dyer, IN/Illiana Christian
20   Sarah Ernst   Sr.   DS/OH   5-8   Fort Wayne, IN/Concordia Lutheran
21   Lauren DeGroot   Jr.   L/S   5-6   Tulare, CA/Central Valley Christian

Only five of thirteen from Michigan.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on September 12, 2007, 02:21:16 PM
SAC:

I think Hope is even stronger this year than you suggest.

Henderson has another year of eligibility due to a season missed injured two years ago and is back as a fifth year senior.  So the only players in Morehouse's ten player rotation that need to be replaced are Jurik and Woods.

I hear that three of last years sophmores are not coming back this year, but Kopke and Knox are playing.  Kopke was Henderson's backup. Knox is 6-2 and in a reserve role demostrated she was better than most of the posts in the MIAA.  It would appear that "going big" (Lange is 6-2 and O'Hare 6-0) is a real option this year - especially if either Warsen or O'Hare is comfortable at the 3 position.

There will be several new faces on the bench (3 graduations + 3 non-returners), but the Dutch with the addition of Snikkers and nine returning players with significant playing time are set up for a great season.  I don't see a drop off in the 08-09 season either in spite of the four graduations this year.

My schedule is cleared November through March.

Calvin - which had the advantage of playing a big line up last year - appears to be at a real disadvantage.  Winkle graduated and the rumor is Willet is studying off campus and unavailable for the season.  Harris is coming off a very serious knee injury and the reserve front line players are very inexperienced.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on September 12, 2007, 04:43:12 PM
I'm certainly no expert on the women's team, thanks for the headsup on Henderson.  I kinda thought that but thought it wise to let someone else correct that.

So indeed, Hope is loaded.  :D ;)
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 14, 2007, 09:02:22 PM
Friday & Saturday, September 14-15
Adrian, Alma, Calvin and Hope at "Border Battle"
hosted by Wittenberg. Tournament Schedule

Saturday, September 15
Albion at Olivet, 11 a.m.
Kalamazoo at Tri-State, 1 p.m.

The MIAA schools in Ohio are in for a battle. 

Friday, Sept. 14

Baldwin-Wallace def. Alma
3-1 (30-28, 30-28, 27-30, 30-22)   

Ohio Northern #18 def. Calvin #10 . . . ouch
3-0 (30-28, 30-23, 30-23)

Wittenberg #1 def. Adrian
(30-15, 30-18, 30-18)   

Hope def. Mount St. Joseph
3-1 (27-30, 24-30, 30-19, 20-30)

Ohio Northern def. Alma
3-0 (30-18, 31-29, 30-27)   

Calvin def. Baldwin-Wallace
3-0 (30-24, 30-18, 30-20)

Wittenberg vs. Hope   

Mount St. Joseph vs. Adrian

Saturday, Sept. 15

Ohio Northern vs. Hope   

Baldwin-Wallace vs. Adrian

Wittenberg vs. Alma   

Mount St. Joseph vs. Calvin

Baldwin-Wallace vs. Hope   

Ohio Northern vs. Adrian

Wittenberg vs. Calvin   

Mount St. Joseph vs. Alma
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Cowman on September 15, 2007, 12:21:08 AM
hope takes #1 ranked witt to 5 games. nice.
lets hope the knights can pull off the upset after being upset friday.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Cowman on September 15, 2007, 12:26:32 AM
Quote from: WWWRHH on September 12, 2007, 02:21:16 PM
SAC:

I hear that three of last years sophmores are not coming back this year, but Kopke and Knox are playing.  Kopke was Henderson's backup. Knox is 6-2 and in a reserve role demostrated she was better than most of the posts in the MIAA.  It would appear that "going big" (Lange is 6-2 and O'Hare 6-0) is a real option this year - especially if either Warsen or O'Hare is comfortable at the 3 position.


Jennifer Bylsma (JV)
Brieann Bryant
Kate Reincke
Courtney Knox
Kimmy Gordon
Kaitlyn Kopke

So you're hearing that Bryant, Reincke and Gordon are gone?
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 16, 2007, 10:57:47 AM
Hope v. Calvin, round 1 this Wednesday at Calvin College.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on September 17, 2007, 11:00:41 PM
So you're hearing that Bryant, Reincke and Gordon are gone?

Cowman:

That is what I hear based on who is attending open gyms.  Of course, it is possible that there could be a change of heart before official practice starts.

Pure speculation on my part, but I assume that  Hope's depth compared to other MIAA teams combined with relatively few key graduations the last couple years, has made it hard for some very fine players in the junior class to establish  a role and get playing time.
Title: Re: MIAA women's basketball
Post by: Oval on September 19, 2007, 12:16:40 PM
Quote from: WWWRHH on September 17, 2007, 11:00:41 PM
So you're hearing that Bryant, Reincke and Gordon are gone?

Cowman:

Pure speculation on my part, but I assume that  Hope's depth compared to other MIAA teams combined with relatively few key graduations the last couple years, has made it hard for some very fine players in the junior class to establish  a role and get playing time.

I hope some of them realize the value of being part of a great community.
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 07:10:32 PM
Hope wins the first game.
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 07:11:25 PM
GAME TWO

Hope 11
Calvin 15
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 07:12:30 PM
GAME TWO

Hope 11
Calvin 18

Deweerd's out
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 07:14:48 PM
GAME TWO

Hope 17
Calvin 19

Calvin timeout
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 07:18:11 PM
GAME TWO Hope 1 / Calvin 0

Hope 20
Calvin 25

Hope timeout

Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 07:21:52 PM
GAME TWO Hope 1 / Calvin 0

Hope 24
Calvin 29
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 07:22:35 PM
GAME TWO Hope 1 / Calvin 1

Hope 25
Calvin 30 game
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 07:25:38 PM
GAME THREE Hope 1 / Calvin 1

Hope 00
Calvin 00

Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 07:27:50 PM
GAME THREE Hope 1 / Calvin 1

Hope 05
Calvin 01


Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 07:32:06 PM
GAME THREE Hope 1 / Calvin 1

Hope 08
Calvin 08

8-3 run by Calvin

timeout Hope

Hope playing three freshmen
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 07:34:21 PM
GAME THREE Hope 1 / Calvin 1

Hope 09
Calvin 11

11-4 Calvin run
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 07:41:49 PM
GAME THREE Hope 1 / Calvin 1

Hope 21
Calvin 22

7-4 run by Hope

Calvin timeout
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 07:46:34 PM
GAME THREE Hope 1 / Calvin 1

Hope 27
Calvin 28
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 07:47:12 PM
GAME THREE Hope 1 / Calvin 1

Hope 28
Calvin 28
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 07:47:39 PM
GAME THREE Hope 1 / Calvin 1

Hope 29
Calvin 28

Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 07:48:33 PM
GAME THREE Hope 1 / Calvin 1

Hope 29
Calvin 29
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 07:49:03 PM
GAME THREE Hope 1 / Calvin 1

Hope 29
Calvin 30
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 07:49:54 PM
GAME THREE Hope 1 / Calvin 2

Hope 29
Calvin 31 game

3-0 run by Calvin
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 07:50:57 PM
GAME FOUR Hope 1 / Calvin 2

Hope 00
Calvin 00
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 07:57:31 PM
GAME FOUR Hope 1 / Calvin 2

Hope 03
Calvin 08
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 07:59:21 PM
GAME FOUR Hope 1 / Calvin 2

Hope 04
Calvin 11

Hope timeout
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 08:03:29 PM
GAME FOUR Hope 1 / Calvin 2

Hope 10
Calvin 14

4-0 Hope run

Calvin timeout
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 08:08:41 PM
GAME FOUR Hope 1 / Calvin 2

Hope 17
Calvin 21

Calvin timeout

Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 08:13:59 PM
GAME FOUR Hope 1 / Calvin 2

Hope 22
Calvin 29
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 08:14:49 PM
GAME FOUR Hope 1 / Calvin 3

Hope 23
Calvin 30 game match
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Cowman on September 22, 2007, 01:35:23 AM
Friday. Sept 21

Saint Mary's d. Kalamazoo
28-30, 30-22, 20-30, 30-26, 15-10
Calvin d. Olivet
30-20, 32-30, 30-18

Linda Slagell Classic

Albion d. New York University
30-20, 30-21, 30-27



Saturday

Adrian at Alma, noon
Tri-State at Hope, 1 p.m.
Olivet at Hope, 3 p.m.

Looks like the Comets make a swing into west-Michigan for back-to-back matches.
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Cowman on September 22, 2007, 01:39:33 AM
Quote from: Preto on September 11, 2007, 10:03:00 PM
6   Katie Zondervan   Sr.   S   5-6   Lakewood, CA/Valley Christian
7   Kayla Hollenbeck   Fr.   MH   6-1   Hudsonville/Hudsonville
8   Jessica Garlick   Jr.   S/RS   5-11   Portage/Kalamazoo Christian
9   Kelsey Sears   So.   DS/L   5-6   Traverse City/Traverse City West
10   Rachel DeYoung   So.   OH   5-10   Hudsonville/Unity Christian
11   Katie Corbett   So.   OH/DS   5-8   St. Joseph/Stevensville-Lakeshore
12   Carolyn Nelson   Fr.   S   5-9   Milan/Milan
13   Kristen Kalb   Sr.   OH   5-9   Stow, OH/Stow-Munroe Falls
14   Kim Wigboldy   Fr.   OH   5-9   Scottsdale, AZ/Valley Christian
17   Molly Krikke   Sr.   MH   5-11   Greenwich, OH/South Central
18   Sara Kramer   So.   OH   5-11   Dyer, IN/Illiana Christian
20   Sarah Ernst   Sr.   DS/OH   5-8   Fort Wayne, IN/Concordia Lutheran
21   Lauren DeGroot   Jr.   L/S   5-6   Tulare, CA/Central Valley Christian

Only five of thirteen from Michigan.

This speaks to Calvin's ability to recruit nation-wide.  If they ever get football they will be pulling players from all over the US.....unlike other MIAA schools.  Although in hoops that ability isn't helping much when Hope gets some of the best players in Michigan.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on September 24, 2007, 12:36:44 PM
This is from today's GR Press:

http://www.mlive.com/sports/grpress/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1190605502305270.xml&coll=6
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hoopdreams on September 26, 2007, 11:00:03 PM
to whom are you referring to as the best players in Michigan for Hope?  Carrie Snikkers?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Cowman on September 27, 2007, 06:00:32 PM
Quote from: hoopdreams on September 26, 2007, 11:00:03 PM
to whom are you referring to as the best players in Michigan for Hope?  Carrie Snikkers?

Snikkers, as well as some very strong men and other women.  IMO they're killing the rest of the MIAA in the recruiting 'wars'.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on October 11, 2007, 06:26:41 PM
"killing" would of course be a relative term.

The men had a fantastic 07 recruiting spring, but the previous few seasons have been somewhat thin.  However they are head and shoulders on paper the best class of the MIAA coming in this season.  I don't know if you could really say that about the last 2 or 3 years.

However Coach Morehouse has had two outstanding classes back to back from what I understand on the women's side.  The biggest difference for him is he's winning over kids who have scholarship offers at other levels.  Thats even excluding Snikkers, I'm not so sure a whole lot of recruiting wooed her away from Oakland.

Coach Mo reloads, Coach VW had to restock. ;) :D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Preto on October 12, 2007, 09:45:03 PM
2007 MIAA Volleyball Report

Calvin         12-0   
Hope            8-2     
Adrian          8-3   
Tri-State       7-5     
Albion           5-6     
Kalamazoo     4-7     
Saint Mary's   4-7     
Alma             2-10     
Olivet            2-12   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Trailer Dog on October 13, 2007, 10:24:30 PM
MIAA Volleyball
October 12-13, 2007

Albion College Quad
Albion d. Olivet 29-31, 30-21, 30-26, 27-30, 20-18 stats
Olivet d. Rochester 30-20, 30-19, 30-19
York (Pa.) d. Olivet 30-23, 28-30, 29-31, 30-22, 15-12
York (Pa.) d. Albion 30-20, 31-29, 23-30, 30-27
Albion d. Rochester 27-30, 30-17, 30-25, 30-28

Millikin Invitational
Calvin d. Franklin 30-26, 30-19, 30-21
Calvin d. Central, Iowa 30-23, 21-30, 30-22, 30-28
Saint Mary's d. Franklin 30-17, 30-22, 30-26
Saint Mary's d. Fontbonne 30-23, 37-35, 30-24
Calvin d. Millikin 30-26, 30-26, 28-30, 25-30, 15-8
Calvin d. Fontbonne 30-19, 30-14, 30-18

Saturday
Hope d. Kalamazoo 30-14, 30-10, 30-24 stats
Tri-State d. Adrian 30-25, 30-23, 30-25 stats
Tri-State d. Manchester 30-27, 30-21, 28-30, 30-22
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Preto on October 13, 2007, 10:29:29 PM
Oct 13 MIAA Volleyball Report

Calvin         12-0   
Hope            9-2     
Adrian          8-4   
Tri-State       8-5     
Albion           5-6     
Kalamazoo     4-7     
Saint Mary's   4-8     
Alma             2-10     
Olivet            2-12   

Tuesday, October 16
Olivet at Adrian, 6:30 p.m.
Albion at Saint Mary's, 7 p.m.

Wednesday, October 17
Calvin at Hope, 6:30 p.m. the big match-up of the week
Tri-State at Alma, 7 p.m.

Thursday, October 18
Albion at Adrian, 6:30 p.m.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on October 16, 2007, 11:26:17 AM
Hope has moved the VB game on Wednesday to the main floor, to accomodate as many fans as possible.  DIII record is 1,850, when when Roanoke (Va.) College beat Washington and Lee (Va.) University in Lexington, Va., in 2000.  Should be an awesome matchup, and it would be great to see the attendace record broken.

AND... you can get in for 1/2 price if you wear orange (I'll be watching for the Calvin Netherlanders to come in wearing orange, and then change their colors  :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on October 17, 2007, 08:46:58 PM
Awesome volleyball match tonight - with Hope winning in 4.  Announced attendance was 1802, just short of a record, but a great crowd none the less.  And it was LOUD in there, almost as loud as a Hope/Calvin Mens bball game (might have been louder for a couple of points).
Title: Re: MIAA Volleyball
Post by: Trailer Dog on October 17, 2007, 11:10:41 PM
MIAA Volleyball
Oct 17

Hope d. Calvin
18-30, 30-26, 30-20, 30-27

Tri-State d. Alma
30-21, 30-21, 26-30, 30-28
Title: Re: MIAA Volleyball
Post by: Preto on October 17, 2007, 11:16:20 PM
Quote from: Trailer Dog on October 17, 2007, 11:10:41 PM
MIAA Volleyball
Oct 17

Hope d. Calvin
18-30, 30-26, 30-20, 30-27

Tri-State d. Alma
30-21, 30-21, 26-30, 30-28

I'm very impressed to see the Dutch dig down and win three straight after being pounded in game 1.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on October 19, 2007, 07:25:50 PM
Since this has become the unofficial home of D3volleyball.com/MIAA  ;) :D

I thought I'd post the link to the photos from the game ....

http://www.hope.edu/pr/athletics/vb/vbphotocalvin1.html
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on October 19, 2007, 10:30:26 PM
MIAA Volleyball
Saturday

St. Mary's at Kalamazoo, 11 a.m.
Alma at Adrian, noon
Hope at Tri-State, 1 p.m. (does the 9-5 Thunder take advantage of a possible let down and pull the big upset?)
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Trailer Dog on October 20, 2007, 07:41:27 PM
MIAA Volleyball
Saturday, October 20

Kalamazoo d. St Mary's 30-28, 30-27, 30-27
Adrian d. Alma 30-28, 30-21, 30-27
Hope d. 3State 30-28, 30-17, 30-23 .... not even close
St Mary's d. Defiance 30-26, 30-22,30-25
Kalamazoo d. Defiance 30-23, 24-30, 30-18, 30-26

League Standings
   
Calvin      12   1
Hope      11   2   
Adrian       11   4      
Tri-State        9   6
Saint Mary's   5   8      
Albion        5   8   
Kalamazoo   5   8      
Alma        2   12      
Olivet        2   13   
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Oval on October 24, 2007, 08:23:00 AM
Calvin (22-4) 3, Saint Mary's (12-16) 1
30-19, 26-30, 30-25, 30-21

Assuming Calvin does not win the MIAA tournament.

Do you think their habit of going to four or five games versus mediocre teams will hurt their chances for an at-large bid to the NCAAs?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on October 24, 2007, 01:59:22 PM
I see Hope's website has its women's BB teams posted but not their men's (ironically, Calvin has it reversed with only its men's team posted). The Lady Dutch varsity roster has 16 members, a number that seems ridiculous to me.  The varsity includes 6 freshmen, none of whom will apparently be spending time on the JV because they aren't listed there. The JV roster has 13 members.

The preseason poll has Hope ranked 12th and based on who they have coming back and the entering freshmen (including Michigan's Class B Player of the Year) this ranking is too low. If Hope stays healthy this year they've got the makings of a Final Four team.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on October 24, 2007, 03:12:47 PM
16 players does make for a crowded bench.  However, Hope carried 16 year before last on their way to the national championship so it doesn't seem as if that number is a detriment to performance.  The team's four seniors are all projected starters and will leave big shoes to fill next year.  I suspect that Morehouse wants to develop his top recruits against his experienced players.   The competition at varsity practice is certainly tougher than the typical JV schedule.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on October 24, 2007, 03:52:41 PM
Hope sure has some height on that team.  Average height is 5-11 wiht 6 players between 6-0 and 6-3, and 4 more 5-10 or 5-11.
Title: Re: MIAA women's basketball
Post by: Oval on October 24, 2007, 09:51:13 PM
Quote from: oldknight on October 24, 2007, 01:59:22 PM

The preseason poll has Hope ranked 12th and based on who they have coming back and the entering freshmen (including Michigan's Class B Player of the Year) this ranking is too low. If Hope stays healthy this year they've got the makings of a Final Four team.

You speak the truth old one .... the Dutch are going to roll.  Do they have a strong non-MIAA schedule?  I'd like to see them match-up with GVSU.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on October 24, 2007, 09:57:16 PM
Quote from: Oval on October 24, 2007, 09:51:13 PM
Do they have a strong non-MIAA schedule?  I'd like to see them match-up with GVSU.

The GVSU matchup would have been great in 06 with the D2 and D3 champs going at it.

Wheaton is on the Hope schedule, they always seem to be nationally ranked.  The only other non-con matchups that look intriguing to me would be a possible Ohio Northern game, and a possible game with Hanover.

http://www.hope.edu/pr/athletics/winter.html#wbball

The oddity will be the Dec 21 game with conference foe St. Mary's in the opening round of Hope's tournament.  That game will also double as an MIAA regular season contest. 

I believe their stiffest tests will come from the also nationally ranked and equally as good Calvin Knights, probably on 3 or 4 occassions.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on October 24, 2007, 10:16:27 PM
Not only are there 16 on the varsity for Hope, but TEN of them are Soph or Freshman.  And they still have 6 women with a ring.

Thats an odd comibition of youth and experience.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on October 25, 2007, 09:32:05 AM
Quote from: sac on October 24, 2007, 10:16:27 PM
Not only are there 16 on the varsity for Hope, but TEN of them are Soph or Freshman.  And they still have 6 women with a ring.

Thats an odd comibition of youth and experience.

An odd combination, that shoudl yield some great learning for the younger ones.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on October 25, 2007, 02:45:59 PM
Oval:  Hope women usually have a pre-season scrimmage against GVSU.  While it is my understanding that the scimmage is held under game conditions and is competitive, I am not sure the primary objective is to win as opposed to trying out various combinations.

In terms of the non-conference schedule it looks like Ohio Northern may prove to be the toughest challenge.  They have a solid program and beat some good teams last year.  Based on recent performances Oberlin, Rochester and Defiance do not look like strong competors and Hanover is very weak.  (A review of last years results indicates that at the Hanover holiday tournament Hope beat Illinois College by 40 the day after IC beat Hanover).  Even Wheaton might not present the same level of competition as in the past since according to the CCIW board (and confirmed by a check of the Wheaton web site) All American center Jill Trenz is not playing and has transfered to another school.

So it looks like the strongest opponent will be Calvin assuming that Brummel and Harris are (hopefully) fully recovered and the Knight's  can adequately fill Winkle and Willet's (?) positions.  Albion and St. Mary's also have the ability and talent to provide a real contest, but the rest of the MIAA is relatively weak.

So it looks like Hope should win a lot of games and should probably be favored to win the conference.  However, a more difficult schedule would be better preparation for the post season.  But regional scheduling and the obligations of the conference schedule are hard to work around.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Cowman on October 25, 2007, 08:21:50 PM
Quote from: sac on October 24, 2007, 09:57:16 PM

I believe their stiffest tests will come from the also nationally ranked and equally as good Calvin Knights, probably on 3 or 4 occassions.

Oh my .... are you implying this season's Knights are on par with this season's Dutch?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flea on October 25, 2007, 08:25:35 PM
Quote from: sac on October 24, 2007, 10:16:27 PM
Not only are there 16 on the varsity for Hope, but TEN of them are Soph or Freshman.  And they still have 6 women with a ring.

Thats an odd comibition of youth and experience.

Very frightening.  I doubt Calvin will have a long unbeaten run in the Van Noord like Hope did in the DeVos.  Ross is going to have to do some creative recuriting in far away places to catch-up.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on October 26, 2007, 07:45:03 PM
Quote from: Cowman on October 25, 2007, 08:21:50 PM


Oh my .... are you implying this season's Knights are on par with this season's Dutch?

Well I'm hardly an expert on women's basketball (nor men's) but it seems both the Dutch and Knights lost fairly equal cogs in their machines.  Correct me if I'm wrong of course.  I thought Hope and Calvin were pretty much on equal terms last season, and I did actually manage to catch two games one at each gym, and each won on the others floor.  They didn't look very different to me.

I don't think a gap has opened between the two from last year to this year.  I fully expect the women's race to come down to Hope and Calvin.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Grutte Dirk on October 27, 2007, 12:22:43 AM
Quote from: sac on October 26, 2007, 07:45:03 PM
Quote from: Cowman on October 25, 2007, 08:21:50 PM

Oh my .... are you implying this season's Knights are on par with this season's Dutch?

Well I'm hardly an expert on women's basketball (nor men's) but it seems both the Dutch and Knights lost fairly equal cogs in their machines.  Correct me if I'm wrong of course.  I thought Hope and Calvin were pretty much on equal terms last season, and I did actually manage to catch two games one at each gym, and each won on the other's floor.  They didn't look very different to me.

I don't think a gap has opened between the two from last year to this year.  I fully expect the women's race to come down to Hope and Calvin.

Winkle gone = huge gap.  Do you see anyone from last year's Hope team close to Winkle in terms of play and leadership?  Could be, but who?

That, along with a slow return from Calvin's injuries and a small recruiting class makes the gap even larger considering Hope's great recruiting class.  What is unknown is how many women dropped the sport at Hope or Calvin.  A few key Dutch losses could level the field a but I still see the 2007-2008 Hope squad on their way to the NCAA title, not just the MIAA title.
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Grutte Dirk on October 27, 2007, 12:26:34 AM
The Knights almost loose another one.  With this approach they go nowhere in the NCAAs, if they even get there.

Calvin 3, Kalamazoo 2 (30-20, 26-30, 27-30, 30-11, 15-10)

K'zoo is 5-10 in the MIAA.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on October 27, 2007, 08:30:38 AM
Quote from: sac on October 26, 2007, 07:45:03 PM


I don't think a gap has opened between the two from last year to this year.  I fully expect the women's race to come down to Hope and Calvin.

I agree that this year's race comes down to Hope and Calvin but I also agree with Bilk that there is a gap that didn't exist last year. The two squads were essentially even last year but Calvin's loss of Winkle (who isn't really being replaced) combined with Hope's returning players and outstanding freshmen class puts the Lady Dutch in the driver's seat for the current season. Calvin is certainly good enough to beat Hope but over the course of a long season I expect Hope will have too many talented basketball players to not win the conference and make a deep run in the NCAA tournament.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on October 27, 2007, 08:51:48 AM
i thiink it will come down to hope and calvin to  with both in the ncaa and maybe hope going to the final 4 
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Oval on October 27, 2007, 09:29:45 PM
Quote from: Bilk on October 27, 2007, 12:26:34 AM
The Knights almost loose another one.  With this approach they go nowhere in the NCAAs, if they even get there.

Calvin 3, Kalamazoo 2 (30-20, 26-30, 27-30, 30-11, 15-10)

K'zoo is 5-10 in the MIAA.

Someone woke-up for this match :

Saturday
Calvin d. Albion 30-21, 30-12, 30-7 ouch
Hope d. Kalamazoo 30-23, 30-12, 30-24
Tri-State d. Saint Mary's 30-26, 30-23, 27-30, 30-22
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on October 30, 2007, 10:15:10 AM
http://blogs.hollandsentinel.com/dan/

Dan D'Addona of the Holland Sentinel has some good comments regarding Calvin's roster and the Knight's lack of size and shortage of experienced post players.  I think the conclusions he draws about the the difficulty this will cause matching up with the Dutch are correct.

Since most of the posters on this board seem to be most familar of with the Calvinist teams, we may be overlooking the Wesleyans :).  Last year Albion was very inconsistent, but played very good at times and won some big games.  They also have some size and experience.  Is this the year the Britons could break the Hope / Calvin duopoly?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on October 30, 2007, 03:19:39 PM
You can read about the Briton's here

http://www.albion.edu/sports/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2104&Itemid=933

They lost their leading scorer Jessica Babcock, but otherwise seem to be mostly intact from last season.

Lots of FR on the varsity.


By the way Hope has to replace Ellen Wood, her vocal leadership on the floor will be difficult to replace.  (if you saw the Hope women, you know what I mean )

Hope is going for its 10th consecutive 20 win season, that would be an outstanding accomplishment.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on October 30, 2007, 05:01:01 PM
Ellen will be hard to replace.  She worked hard throughout her career and really came into her own last year.

However, in Knox and / or Snikkers (maybe both if Morehouse wants to go really big) , Hope has legitimate canditates to fill that spot in the rotation - and that does not even include the freshman that are basically unknown commodities at this point.  (I am assuming that Hope remains with basically a ten player rotation and Lange starts at center).

The front line succession planning at Calvin does not seem as orderly.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on October 30, 2007, 05:24:09 PM
Quote from: WWWRHH on October 30, 2007, 10:15:10 AM
  Is this the year the Britons could break the Hope / Calvin duopoly?

No, Hope will win the conference this year, probably quite comfortably.

Quote from: sac on October 30, 2007, 03:19:39 PM


Hope is going for its 10th consecutive 20 win season, that would be an outstanding accomplishment.

20 wins is a given. The only question I have is "Can the Lady Dutch win 30?"

Quote from: WWWRHH on October 30, 2007, 05:01:01 PM
Ellen will be hard to replace.  She worked hard throughout her career and really came into her own last year.


I saw Ellen Wood play. She was a nice player who worked hard to become an effective post by the time she was a senior. I mean no disrepect to her when I say that she will not be hard to replace--at least not as far as her talent level is concerned. If you've never seen Snikkers play then let me tell you, there is no comparison in skill level between Wood and Snikkers. I seriously doubt that there is an entering female freshmen at the D3 level with her combination of athletic ability and size. She's not only 6'3", she's an outstanding passer and 3 point shooter. In fact, she is likely to lead Hope in 3 point per centage this year. Snikkers is also a presence on defense and has the best pair of hands of any female player I've ever seen. They're like velcro when she puts her mitts on the ball. Combined with an excellent and experienced supporting cast, and other talented freshmen on the roster, Hope is primed for a run that might not end until Hope finishes hosting the Final Four at DeVos on March 22, 2008. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on October 30, 2007, 05:54:14 PM
I love the confidence you have in the Dutch Oldknight, which just seems strange and weird and considerably wrong considering the side of the aisle your on. ;) :D

The MIAA has won 5 National Championships in basketball men's and women's,  all 5 have one thing in common.  Facing a close game along the way where the final score could have gone either way and history would be different.

1990     Hope women
  Hope 68, Wisc.-Oshkosh 67 (Regional) 
  Hope 85, Buena Vista, Iowa 79 (ot) (Quarterfinal)
  Hope 65, St. John Fisher, N.Y. 63 (National Championship )

1992    Alma women
  Alma 81, Luther, Iowa 80 (Semis) 
  Alma 79, Moravian, Pa. 75 (National Championship)

1992  Calvin men
Calvin 91, Hope 88 (Second Round)
Calvin 69, Gustavus-Adolphus, Minn. 68 (Sectional)

2000   Calvin men
Calvin 92, Franklin 90 (ot) (Second Round)
Calvin 79, Franklin & Marshall, Pa. 77 (Semis)
Calvin 79, Wisc. -Eau Claire 74 (Championship game)

2006  Hope women
  Hope 59, Scranton, Pa. 56 (Semi-Finals)

This also holds true for the other 5 men's squads who went to the final four except the 98 Hope men.  Albion 1978, Calvin 1990, Hope 1996, Calvin 2005 all faced close early round games they could have easily lost.

The list of razor close losses to knock an MIAA team out of the tournament is even longer.

Everything just has to go to right, to predict a National Championship.
 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 01, 2007, 12:03:28 AM
Not that pre-season polls mean anything but I thought this was interesting.

http://www.wbca.org/DIIICoachesPoll.asp

The Dutch got a first place vote, but were still behind the Knights.


Oldknight do you have a vote in this poll. ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on November 01, 2007, 10:15:29 AM
Hope is announcing that tickets to the Women's Final Four will go on sale at DeVos Fieldhouse today! For those interested in beating the rush once Hope makes the Final Four your opportunity to get a ticket is today.

http://hope.edu/pr/athletics/
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 01, 2007, 01:47:41 PM
No one posted it so here it is....


MIAA Women's Basketball Coaches Pre-Season Poll:
1. Hope (6) 10,
2. Calvin (3) 15,
3. Albion 23,
4. Saint Mary's 26,
5. Adrian 41,
6. Alma 45,
7. Tri State 52 ,
8. Olivet 53,
9. Kalamazoo 59
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 01, 2007, 03:33:28 PM
http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/

women's preseason poll
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dballa on November 01, 2007, 03:41:48 PM
that's actually the men's, it's still showing the women's final poll from last year.  I'm sure it will be up soon though.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 01, 2007, 04:13:41 PM
speaking of skimming :-[
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dballa on November 01, 2007, 04:53:15 PM
Well now your link works as the women's poll has been released :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 01, 2007, 05:50:13 PM
The womens poll looks like the voters were pretty scattered with their views.  8 teams received a first place vote, including the team at #14.

Hope comes in at 4, Calvin at 9.
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on November 03, 2007, 04:31:00 PM
GAME ONE Hope 0 / Calvin 1

Hope 22
Calvin 30
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on November 03, 2007, 04:49:16 PM
GAME TWO Hope 0 / Calvin 2

Hope 19
Calvin 30
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on November 03, 2007, 05:14:25 PM
GAME THREE Hope 0 / Calvin 3

Hope 23
Calvin 30

Calvin's off to the NCAAs.
Hope waits 'til Monday for an at-large bid.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on November 04, 2007, 08:39:21 PM
According to the Holland Sentinel today, Carrie Snikkers is projected to be either the 3rd team center or the second team forward.

The team may be good, but they can't be that loaded with that amount of talent.
Title: Re: MIAA women's basketball
Post by: Oval on November 04, 2007, 09:05:11 PM
Quote from: AlwaysHope on November 04, 2007, 08:39:21 PM
According to the Holland Sentinel today, Carrie Snikkers is projected to be either the 3rd team center or the second team forward.

The team may be good, but they can't be that loaded with amount of talent.

3rd team center ..... 2nd team forward ..... it's nice the Sentinel has a sense of humor.  More like 2nd team all-MIAA.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 04, 2007, 11:19:11 PM
I don't even see this on the online Sentinel, is this in the actual paper version?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on November 05, 2007, 06:44:28 AM
Quote from: sac on November 04, 2007, 11:19:11 PM
I don't even see this on the online Sentinel, is this in the actual paper version?

Sac:  Here's the link.

http://hollandsentinel.com/stories/110407/hopetab_20071104116.shtml
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 05, 2007, 08:25:11 AM
Not a surprise the Sentinel would predict that about Snikkers.  They are so clueless about the game that they've been talking about Jesse Reimink playing center this year, like he did last year   ???
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on November 05, 2007, 11:33:40 AM
Quote from: Oval on November 04, 2007, 09:05:11 PM
Quote from: AlwaysHope on November 04, 2007, 08:39:21 PM
According to the Holland Sentinel today, Carrie Snikkers is projected to be either the 3rd team center or the second team forward.

The team may be good, but they can't be that loaded with amount of talent.

3rd team center ..... 2nd team forward ..... it's nice the Sentinel has a sense of humor.  More like 2nd team all-MIAA.

There are several reasons not to respond to speculation about the Dutch lineup and Snikkers role.

I have never seen Snikkers play.

I do not talk to Coach Morehouse on a regular basis.

On the few occasions we have spoken he did not ask my opinion.

I do not attend practice.

However, I have watched the team for a few years and do know it is not a star based.  The team wins by playing Morehouse's system.  The system employs a fast paced offense, an intense pressing defense and relys on a two unit rotation where everyone plays all out all the time.

It is not unusual for freshman to play or even start.  However, it would be almost unheard of for a freshman to supplant a proven upper classman.  The system does reward hard work and loyalty.  Often times good high school players develop into very good or great college players in the system.

Four of five starters return this year and Lange, a center, has played a key role the last two years.  I have a hard time imagining anyone replacing captains Warsen or Lange (positions 4 & 5) in the starting lineup this year.  Green - the 3 - brings such quickness, slashing ability, and defense that I think her role is secure.

Three players return to the second unit and Knox played some important minutes at center last year.  Dutch centers are required to play a rough and tumble post up role down low and run the court end to end.  Both Lange and Knox fit the prototype.  They are strong, can jump and have sprinters speed.  O'Hare returns in the 4 position, but would appear able to play at the 3 left open by Jurik's graduation if necessary. 

Given what I have read about Snikkers perimeter ability, it would seem that second unit forward is a very likely (and honorable) role.  Think about it, a 6', 6'2" and 6'3" second unit front line that could start for almost any D3 team in the country.  Other conference teams will never be able to rest their staters without the risk of being totally dominated on the boards.   Remember that this is a full two unit system and the second unit often plays almost as many minutes as the first unit.

Snikkers is not the first - or even the only current player - to pass up a DI, DII or NAIA scholarship to play for the Dutch.  Hope is a DIII team but plays on a different plain than 95% of their competition and it is a big step from Class B high school to their level. 

The Dutch seem to be enjoying an embarrassment of riches this year and a big reason for the depth is Morehouse's ability to retain players for four years.  I feel pretty safe in saying that we will not see anything done that will disrupt the chemistry that he has worked so hard to build.

So let's sit back and see what happens and avoid promoting one player (who has yet to play a college game) over the proven performers that have brought us this far.  Hopefully, the season will be as fun as we all assume.





Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 05, 2007, 11:45:50 AM
What a hose job by the NCAA volleyball committee.  Hope does not get an invite to the trounament, despite having a fine 24-9 record, with 7 of those loses coming to tournament teams.  Here are the losses this team suffered this year

2 versus #11 Ohio Northern (one 3 game match, one 5 game match)
1 versus #1 Wittenburg (a 5 game match, the only time Witt 34-0 went to 5 games all year)
2 versus #16 Calvin (one 3 game, one 4 game, plus beat Calvin in 4 games)
1 versus Adrian (4 game match, also beat Adrian twice)
1 versus #9 UW Oshkosh (4 game match)
1 versus IWU (3 game match)
1 versus #8 Emory (3 game match , every game went past 30 points)



Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on November 05, 2007, 01:26:39 PM
I mostly agree with WWWRHH's comments but will supplement them with a few of my own. I understand and agree with the philosophy that any college freshman, no matter how talented, be required to clearly earn their way into a starting position. This is especially true when, as noted, you are dealing with a team "with an embarrassment of riches." Hope is one of the best female D3 squads in the nation without Snikkers. Until Snikkers shows herself to be better than the player she supplants she should come off the bench. My problem with the brief mention appearing in the Sentinel is that to the casual observer Snikkers appears destined for little more than mop-up duty her first year.

I know other DI talents have wound playing at the D3 level (even at Hope :o)--but not a player of her talent. Usually a player who drops from DI to DIII is a more marginal DI talent than is Carrie. She was the No. 1 recruit at a DI institution and you don't go from that to an end-of-the-bencher at a  DIII school in the course of 6 months. I don't know what Morehouse has in mind in moving Snikkers along but my guess is that she will be a starter at some point in the season. She's just too talented to be an 8 minute per game player. Because she is a very good ball-handler and an excellent outside shooter, Morehouse does have the flexibility of playing Snikkers at more than one position. She may not start right away but if she doesn't play a lot right away, I will be amazed.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 05, 2007, 06:21:14 PM
Last season Fr. Philana Green spent the first half of the season coming off the bench.  By the  later half of the MIAA schedule she was starting ahead of Sr. Sarah Jurik.

The situation may or may not turn out to be similar this year, but at least the precedent has been set that its happened at Hope before.

I probably don't like all the hype thats hurled at Carrie Snikkers, I never like to see so much asked of Freshman.  I think Bria Ebels went through a similar set of expectations her Fr. year.   Its always a tougher transition to college ball than people realize.  But I'm pretty confident that Oldknight has seen Snikkers play aheck of alot more than me, so I'll defer to him on Snikkers' talent.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 05, 2007, 06:22:04 PM
Why is it every time I read the MIAA women's board lately, I get a craving for a candy bar?  ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Oval on November 06, 2007, 08:51:31 AM
Quote from: WWWRHH on November 05, 2007, 11:33:40 AM
Quote from: Oval on November 04, 2007, 09:05:11 PM
Quote from: AlwaysHope on November 04, 2007, 08:39:21 PM
According to the Holland Sentinel today, Carrie Snikkers is projected to be either the 3rd team center or the second team forward.

The team may be good, but they can't be that loaded with amount of talent.

3rd team center ..... 2nd team forward ..... it's nice the Sentinel has a sense of humor.  More like 2nd team all-MIAA.

There are several reasons not to respond to speculation about the Dutch lineup and Snikkers role.


Very solid reasoning.  You're right, who knows how the newbies will do.
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Trailer Dog on November 06, 2007, 08:56:41 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on November 05, 2007, 11:45:50 AM
What a hose job by the NCAA volleyball committee.  Hope does not get an invite to the trounament, despite having a fine 24-9 record, with 7 of those loses coming to tournament teams.  Here are the losses this team suffered this year

2 versus #11 Ohio Northern (one 3 game match, one 5 game match)
1 versus #1 Wittenburg (a 5 game match, the only time Witt 34-0 went to 5 games all year)
2 versus #16 Calvin (one 3 game, one 4 game, plus beat Calvin in 4 games)
1 versus Adrian (4 game match, also beat Adrian twice)
1 versus #9 UW Oshkosh (4 game match)
1 versus IWU (3 game match)
1 versus #8 Emory (3 game match , every game went past 30 points)


While it is a tough Regional, I'd like to see the unranked team's resumes.  Did Hope beat any ranked teams?

Nov. 8, quarterfinals
Washington #4 vs. Hanover, 1 p.m.
W-Oshkosh #9 vs. W-Platteville, 3:30 p.m.
W-La Crosse #17 vs. Calvin #16, 6 p.m.
Carroll vs. Carthage #6, 8:30 p.m.

Nov. 9, semifinals
Washington (Mo.)-Hanover winner vs. Wisconsin-Oshkosh-Wisconsin-Platteville
winner, 4:30 p.m.
Wisconsin-La Crosse-Calvin winner vs. Carroll (Wis.)-Carthage winner, 7 p.m.

Nov. 10, championship
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Trailer Dog on November 06, 2007, 09:07:01 AM
Quote from: sac on November 05, 2007, 06:21:14 PM
I probably don't like all the hype thats hurled at Carrie Snikkers, I never like to see so much asked of Freshman.  I think Bria Ebels went through a similar set of expectations her Fr. year.


What were Miss Ebels' high school credentials?
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 06, 2007, 09:17:53 AM
Quote from: Trailer Dog on November 06, 2007, 08:56:41 AM
While it is a tough Regional, I'd like to see the unranked team's resumes.  Did Hope beat any ranked teams?

Calvin was the only ranked team they beat.  They were also the only team all year to win two games against Wittenburg
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 06, 2007, 12:21:50 PM
Quote from: Trailer Dog on November 06, 2007, 09:07:01 AM

What were Miss Ebels' high school credentials?

She wasn't in the running for Miss basketball, but I think most people expected her to do very well at Hope.

I don't think she was all-state, but she was all-area for the Sentinel, for what thats worth.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 06, 2007, 03:43:48 PM
Quote from: sac on November 06, 2007, 12:21:50 PM
Quote from: Trailer Dog on November 06, 2007, 09:07:01 AM

What were Miss Ebels' high school credentials?

She wasn't in the running for Miss basketball, but I think most people expected her to do very well at Hope.

I don't think she was all-state, but she was all-area for the Sentinel, for what thats worth.

She also had collegiate coaches watching her prior to being in middle school.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gottaluvhoops on November 09, 2007, 12:02:30 PM
Can Hope run the table this year??
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Trailer Dog on November 09, 2007, 01:39:43 PM
Calvin is the underdog here on out.  Tonight's game vs. the host school will be brutal.

Thursday, Nov. 8, quarterfinals
Washington #4 - 3 defeats Hanover - 0
(W) Oshkosh #9 - 3 defeats (W) Platteville - 2
Calvin #16 - 3 defeats (W) La Crosse #17 - 1 (26-30, 30-26, 30-20, 30-15)
Carthage #6 - 3 defeats Carroll - 0

Friday, Nov. 9, semifinals
Washington #4 - 3 defeats (W) Oshkosh #9 - 2
Carthage #6 - 3 defeats Calvin #16 - 0, (30-26, 30-23, 30-07) tough loss for the Knights and the MIAA

Saturday, Nov. 10, championship
Washington #4 versus Carthage #6
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hawk'ster on November 09, 2007, 01:42:07 PM
Quote from: gottaluvhoops on November 09, 2007, 12:02:30 PM
Can Hope run the table this year??

I would say they should run the MIAA table and could run the NCAA table.  Seems like Calvin's losses will make the MIAA road fairly easy for the Dutch.  Did any MIAA schools have a great recruiting year?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Trailer Dog on November 09, 2007, 10:41:57 PM
Quote from: hawk'ster on November 09, 2007, 01:42:07 PM
Quote from: gottaluvhoops on November 09, 2007, 12:02:30 PM
Can Hope run the table this year??

I would say they should run the MIAA table and could run the NCAA table.  Seems like Calvin's losses will make the MIAA road fairly easy for the Dutch.  Did any MIAA schools have a great recruiting year?

You mean other than Hope (I hope)?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: brutus on November 10, 2007, 07:13:55 PM
Any update on the Calvin ACL's?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 10, 2007, 10:48:50 PM
Anyone at meet the Dutch this morning?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on November 11, 2007, 07:05:53 AM
sac i was there the hope girls looked pretty good   they schould have a out stading year i think
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 11, 2007, 12:53:46 PM
To finish up our tracking of VB, Calvin lost in the second round of the NCAA

Carthage d. Calvin 30-26, 30-23, 30-7

30-7?  WOW!
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Trailer Dog on November 11, 2007, 05:51:02 PM
Thursday, Nov. 8, quarterfinals
Washington #4 - 3 defeats Hanover - 0
(W) Oshkosh #9 - 3 defeats (W) Platteville - 2
Calvin #16 - 3 defeats (W) La Crosse #17 - 1 (26-30, 30-26, 30-20, 30-15)
Carthage #6 - 3 defeats Carroll - 0

Friday, Nov. 9, semifinals
Washington #4 - 3 defeats (W) Oshkosh #9 - 2
Carthage #6 - 3 defeats Calvin #16 - 0, (30-26, 30-23, 30-07) tough loss for the Knights and the MIAA

Saturday, Nov. 10, championship
Washington #4 - 3 defeats Carthage #6 - 1
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 13, 2007, 06:45:39 PM
Hope's Jordan Boles is listed as an honorable mention Pre-season all-america by D3hoops.com

I'd link it but for some inexplicable reason, my right click won't work.  ???
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Civic Minded on November 14, 2007, 11:00:04 AM
Quote from: sac on November 13, 2007, 06:45:39 PM
Hope's Jordan Boles is listed as an honorable mention Pre-season all-america by D3hoops.com

I'd link it but for some inexplicable reason, my right click won't work.  ???

Sounds painful!   ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 14, 2007, 11:57:04 AM
Quote from: sac on November 13, 2007, 06:45:39 PM
Hope's Jordan Boles is listed as an honorable mention Pre-season all-america by D3hoops.com

I'd link it but for some inexplicable reason, my right click won't work.  ???

Any chance you're coming to watch the Dutch on Friday and/or Saturday?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 14, 2007, 01:12:51 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on November 14, 2007, 11:57:04 AM
Quote from: sac on November 13, 2007, 06:45:39 PM
Hope's Jordan Boles is listed as an honorable mention Pre-season all-america by D3hoops.com

I'd link it but for some inexplicable reason, my right click won't work.  ???

Any chance you're coming to watch the Dutch on Friday and/or Saturday?

Thursday is Thanksgiving in the Sac household, I have family hanging around this weekend it would be difficult to sneak away from the hard core games of  UNO.  The 7 year old wouldn't understand and I don't want her to call me chicken.

......and Saturday, well that should need no explanation. ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Civic Minded on November 14, 2007, 02:23:02 PM
Quote from: sac on November 14, 2007, 01:12:51 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on November 14, 2007, 11:57:04 AM
Quote from: sac on November 13, 2007, 06:45:39 PM
Hope's Jordan Boles is listed as an honorable mention Pre-season all-america by D3hoops.com

I'd link it but for some inexplicable reason, my right click won't work.  ???

Any chance you're coming to watch the Dutch on Friday and/or Saturday?

Thursday is Thanksgiving in the Sac household, I have family hanging around this weekend it would be difficult to sneak away from the hard core games of  UNO.  The 7 year old wouldn't understand and I don't want her to call me chicken.

......and Saturday, well that should need no explanation. ;)

After Thanksgiving shopping sales??? :D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on November 14, 2007, 04:02:24 PM
sac it wont be the same with out you there 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: veragrace on November 15, 2007, 02:53:32 PM
I was at "Meet The Dutch" and noticed Kaitlyn Kopke in a walking cast of some sort.  Anyone have the story on this?
I thought the girls looked pretty solid.  Last year I enjoyed watching Emily O'Hare and think she appears stronger and more confidant this year.  Looking forward to the weekend...we sat in our seats last weekend and I looked at my husband and said "welcome home".  :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Civic Minded on November 15, 2007, 04:05:12 PM
Quote from: veragrace on November 15, 2007, 02:53:32 PM
I was at "Meet The Dutch" and noticed Kaitlyn Kopke in a walking cast of some sort.  Anyone have the story on this?
I thought the girls looked pretty solid.  Last year I enjoyed watching Emily O'Hare and think she appears stronger and more confidant this year.  Looking forward to the weekend...we sat in our seats last weekend and I looked at my husband and said "welcome home".  :)

Oh my stars, I know the feeling!  Can't wait until tomorrow night, when we are finally "home" again too!  Missing Meet the Dutch/Dutchmen for the first time in about 12 years nearly killed me! :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on November 15, 2007, 04:20:53 PM
i know i can not wait till friday night to watch some good basketball game  kopke was waling  monday  but not so good  i think maybe play next weekend 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 16, 2007, 01:12:37 PM
From the article in the Sentinel (link below) sounds like the Lady Knights are going to have a tough time dealing with injuries to start the year

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/stories/111607/localsports_20071116057.shtml
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on November 16, 2007, 10:23:11 PM
hope played good tonight a tough one saturday vs ohio northern i think
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on November 16, 2007, 11:07:56 PM
I was curious how Snickers would do in her first college game at Hope.  But she was not listed in the boxscore.  Anyone know why she did not play?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 16, 2007, 11:25:23 PM
Snikkers did play - she played with the second unit.  Something like 4 points and maybe about that many rebounds as well.  In my opinion, she looked more like a freshman than the rest of the freshman - but that might have been because of higher expectations.  Hope is an extremely deep team.

I think there is an issue with the scoreboard/stats board only handling 15 players, and Hope has 16.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 17, 2007, 09:36:41 PM
Looks like the Dutch absolutely womanhandled the Polar Bears today 89-61.

5 girls in double figures

http://www.miaa.org/wbb/stats/0708/1117onuw.htm
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flea on November 17, 2007, 10:03:43 PM
Women's Basketball - MIAA's Weekend

Hope (#4) 93, Oberlin 44
Hope (#4) 89, (OH) Northern 61

Calvin (#9) 79, Mount St Joseph 41
Calvin (#9) 62, Illinois College 52

Albion 85, SUNY Brockport 76 (OT)
Albion 58, Muskingum 56

Trine 72, Rose-Hulman 52
Trine 74, Franklin 59

(VA) Wesleyan 62, Adrian 55
Adrian 68, Ursinus 66

Baldwin Wallace 60, Alma 52 (2OT)
Alma 62, Marian 59

Kalamazoo 83, Dominican 81 (OT)
Capital (#20) 75, Kalamazoo 49

Wheaton 75, St Mary's 56
St Mary's 83, Aurora 47

DePauw (#5) 96, Olivet 63
Washington (MO) (#6) 68, Olivet 38
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on November 19, 2007, 08:16:43 PM
Here's a unique stat about Hope's 89-61 victory over Ohio Northern.  The starters scored 25 points in total, and the bench scored the remaining 64 points.  Thus the bench outscored ONU, 64 - 61!

The 5 Hope starters played a total of 67 minutes, while the 11 players coming off the bench played 130 minutes (numbers rounded off, since the total is not 200), so the entire bench was more productive than the starters were for this game.

And you can't say that ONU put in their reserves early.  The five ONU starters totaled 117 minutes of the 201 total minutes (again rounded off).

I thought I should do a similar comparison with their first opponent, Oberlin.  Results were even more so tilted to the bench.  The 5 Hope starters played 61 minutes and scored 25 points, while the bench played 139 minutes and scored the remaining 65 points, outscoring the entire Oberlin team, 65 - 44.  This was accomplished by and large against the 5 Oberlin starters, who played 150 of their team's 200 minutes; these starters scored 40 of the team's 44 points.  Or you could say that the Hope bench outscored the Oberlin bench 65 - 4!

Appropriately, one of the Hope bench players, Emily O'Hare, was named to the all-tourney team.

In both games every Hope player scored.  In the first game every player got a rebound, while in the second game everyone got a rebound except for one person.

Now that's depth!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 19, 2007, 10:25:43 PM
Excellent stuff!  I can't remember seeing something like that.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on November 19, 2007, 10:40:38 PM
Quote from: AlwaysHope on November 19, 2007, 08:16:43 PM
Here's a unique stat about Hope's 89-61 victory over Ohio Northern.  The starters scored 25 points in total, and the bench scored the remaining 64 points.  Thus the bench outscored ONU, 64 - 61!

The 5 Hope starters played a total of 67 minutes, while the 11 players coming off the bench played 130 minutes (numbers rounded off, since the total is not 200), so the entire bench was more productive than the starters were for this game.




I can't say I'm surprised. I think we're going to see more of this kind of bench output this year because 1) Hope's women won't have many close games and 2) Hope's bench is very talented.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on November 19, 2007, 11:43:44 PM
Quote from: oldknight on November 19, 2007, 10:40:38 PM
Quote from: AlwaysHope on November 19, 2007, 08:16:43 PM
Here's a unique stat about Hope's 89-61 victory over Ohio Northern.  The starters scored 25 points in total, and the bench scored the remaining 64 points.  Thus the bench outscored ONU, 64 - 61!

The 5 Hope starters played a total of 67 minutes, while the 11 players coming off the bench played 130 minutes (numbers rounded off, since the total is not 200), so the entire bench was more productive than the starters were for this game.




I can't say I'm surprised. I think we're going to see more of this kind of bench output this year because 1) Hope's women won't have many close games and 2) Hope's bench is very talented.

Actually, you could argue that if the game is close, the "subs" should come in sooner, based on that two game performance.  They have been outplaying the starting unit in the first two games!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 20, 2007, 10:15:57 AM
Quote from: AlwaysHope on November 19, 2007, 11:43:44 PM
Quote from: oldknight on November 19, 2007, 10:40:38 PM
Quote from: AlwaysHope on November 19, 2007, 08:16:43 PM
Here's a unique stat about Hope's 89-61 victory over Ohio Northern.  The starters scored 25 points in total, and the bench scored the remaining 64 points.  Thus the bench outscored ONU, 64 - 61!

The 5 Hope starters played a total of 67 minutes, while the 11 players coming off the bench played 130 minutes (numbers rounded off, since the total is not 200), so the entire bench was more productive than the starters were for this game.

I can't say I'm surprised. I think we're going to see more of this kind of bench output this year because 1) Hope's women won't have many close games and 2) Hope's bench is very talented.

Actually, you could argue that if the game is close, the "subs" should come in sooner, based on that two game performance.  They have been outplaying the starting unit in the first two games!

To be more acurate, you would have to look at points per player minute (ppm).  If you do that, in the first game the starters scored at a rate of 0.46 ppm based on 28 points (not 25) in 61 minutes.  The bench also scored at 0.46 ppm based on 65 points in 139 minutes - basically a wash.

In the second game, the starters scored at 0.37 ppm and the bench at 0.49 ppm. 

Either game, that's impressive.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: veragrace on November 20, 2007, 11:43:12 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on November 16, 2007, 11:25:23 PM
Snikkers did play - she played with the second unit.  Something like 4 points and maybe about that many rebounds as well.  In my opinion, she looked more like a freshman than the rest of the freshman - but that might have been because of higher expectations.  Hope is an extremely deep team.

I think there is an issue with the scoreboard/stats board only handling 15 players, and Hope has 16.


I was more impressed with Snikkers on Saturday than Friday.  She seemed to be more comfortable.  I also like DeKuiper for defense and, of course, Kopke.  She never quits.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on November 20, 2007, 02:59:01 PM
Quote from: veragrace on November 20, 2007, 11:43:12 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on November 16, 2007, 11:25:23 PM
Snikkers did play - she played with the second unit.  Something like 4 points and maybe about that many rebounds as well.  In my opinion, she looked more like a freshman than the rest of the freshman - but that might have been because of higher expectations.  Hope is an extremely deep team.

I think there is an issue with the scoreboard/stats board only handling 15 players, and Hope has 16.


I was more impressed with Snikkers on Saturday than Friday.  She seemed to be more comfortable.  I also like DeKuiper for defense and, of course, Kopke.  She never quits.

I could not get to the game, but I did notice that in only 16 minutes Snickers got 10 points on 5 of 8 shooting, led the team with 7 boards and tied for the lead with 3 assists, got one block and had zero turnovers.  Obviously the boxscore doesn't tell you everything, but a very good start statistically.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gottaluvhoops on November 20, 2007, 04:21:14 PM
Hope is going to go undefeated in the regular season.  They are to deep and strong inside!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Civic Minded on November 20, 2007, 05:21:10 PM
Quote from: veragrace on November 20, 2007, 11:43:12 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on November 16, 2007, 11:25:23 PM
Snikkers did play - she played with the second unit.  Something like 4 points and maybe about that many rebounds as well.  In my opinion, she looked more like a freshman than the rest of the freshman - but that might have been because of higher expectations.  Hope is an extremely deep team.

I think there is an issue with the scoreboard/stats board only handling 15 players, and Hope has 16.


I was more impressed with Snikkers on Saturday than Friday.  She seemed to be more comfortable.  I also like DeKuiper for defense and, of course, Kopke.  She never quits.

I absolutely agree, on all counts.  Snikkers seemed to settle in on Saturday, andwas great fun to watch.  When she decides to work it inside to the basket, she can't be stopped.  DeKuiper has really impressed me, maybe the most of any of the freshmen so far.  What an abundance of blessings this team has!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on November 20, 2007, 08:59:03 PM
Hope is indeed deep and strong inside:  In Saturday's game at the 5 position Lange scored 6 in  9 mins., Snikkers scored 10 in 16 mins, and Knox scored 10 in  7 mins.  If you can get 26 points in 32 mins from your center position the zone is not going to be effective.  It doesn't look like we will see two of these players on the court at the same time, but if I was an opposing coach I would wonder what to do if it did happen.  Of course at the four position O'Hare is also doing a good job of racking up the points.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on November 20, 2007, 10:35:23 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on November 20, 2007, 10:15:57 AM
Quote from: AlwaysHope on November 19, 2007, 11:43:44 PM
Quote from: oldknight on November 19, 2007, 10:40:38 PM
Quote from: AlwaysHope on November 19, 2007, 08:16:43 PMHere's a unique stat about Hope's 89-61 victory over Ohio Northern.  The starters scored 25 points in total, and the bench scored the remaining 64 points.  Thus the bench outscored ONU, 64 - 61!The 5 Hope starters played a total of 67 minutes, while the 11 players coming off the bench played 130 minutes (numbers rounded off, since the total is not 200), so the entire bench was more productive than the starters were for this game.
I can't say I'm surprised. I think we're going to see more of this kind of bench output this year because 1) Hope's women won't have many close games and 2) Hope's bench is very talented.
Actually, you could argue that if the game is close, the "subs" should come in sooner, based on that two game performance.  They have been outplaying the starting unit in the first two games!
To be more acurate, you would have to look at points per player minute (ppm).  If you do that, in the first game the starters scored at a rate of 0.46 ppm based on 28 points (not 25) in 61 minutes.  The bench also scored at 0.46 ppm based on 65 points in 139 minutes - basically a wash. In the second game, the starters scored at 0.37 ppm and the bench at 0.49 ppm.  Either game, that's impressive.
Acurate?  Sorry, I couldn't let that one pass.
Seriously, FDF, thanks for catching my addition error.  At least we did not make this mistake; hopefully it was not a Kalamazoo College Grad that spelled this (you got to see it to believe it.):
http://www.chicagotribune.com:80/news/nationworld/sns-sns0906offbeats120070906051717,0,7163988.photo?coll=chi_home_promo
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 21, 2007, 11:38:15 AM
AH - That's a good one!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on November 21, 2007, 01:12:13 PM
Quote from: gottaluvhoops on November 20, 2007, 04:21:14 PM
Hope is going to go undefeated in the regular season.  They are to deep and strong inside!
One has to love this level of team support, but not sure any team is ever too deep or strong indside.   There is probably little doubt that Hope will have an excellent year, but going undefeated is setting the bar pretty high. :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 21, 2007, 03:51:39 PM
I don't believe gottaluvhoops is a Hope fan.  They've made 11 posts, and 9 have been on the IIAC and MIAC boards.

The 2 posts in here have been

"Can Hope run the table?" and "Hope is going to go undefeated in the regular season.  They are to deep and strong inside!", about a week or two apart.


The most boisterous comments about Hope seem to be coming from people who rarely would wear orange or blue. ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on November 21, 2007, 04:28:55 PM
i think it schould be a good game tonight at 6.00 on whtc vs defaiance of ohio 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 21, 2007, 08:32:31 PM
Hope 93, Defiance 70
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on November 22, 2007, 12:04:43 AM
To all the MIAA posters:

Wishing You Joys
Both Great and Small
And a Happy Thanksgiving
To you all!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on November 22, 2007, 12:33:14 PM
Sac:  I have to agree it didn't sound like a typical Hope poster.  Hard to tell with people who post a few times, and then move on.   :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2007, 02:00:20 AM
Quote from: sac on November 21, 2007, 03:51:39 PM
I don't believe gottaluvhoops is a Hope fan.  They've made 11 posts, and 9 have been on the IIAC and MIAC boards.

...

The most boisterous comments about Hope seem to be coming from people who rarely would wear orange or blue. ;)

How do you know it's not a Macalester fan? :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gottaluvhoops on November 27, 2007, 09:39:45 AM
Hope is up to #4 in the rankings!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 27, 2007, 10:45:26 AM
Actually Hope remains at #4, although Calvin did move up from #9 to #6.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Grutte Dirk on November 27, 2007, 09:51:35 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on November 27, 2007, 10:45:26 AM
Actually Hope remains at #4, although Calvin did move up from #9 to #6.

Hope's under rated (who can run with them?) and Calvin's over rated (too many personnel losses).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope81 on November 30, 2007, 10:23:06 PM
Another impressive win by the Dutch tonight.  Depth proved to be the difference.  At one point in the 2nd half the Hope subs had outscored the Carthage subs 33-7.  And I think Snikkers is starting to understand the Hope system.  Should be a good game tomorrow as Wheaton beat Calvin.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on November 30, 2007, 11:26:19 PM
Quote from: hope81 on November 30, 2007, 10:23:06 PM

  And I think Snikkers is starting to understand the Hope system. 


16 points, 9 boards and 4 blocks in 21 minutes? Yeah, I would say so.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 01, 2007, 01:03:20 AM
I think some coaches would take that kind of bench production, .......from their whole bench.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on December 01, 2007, 09:13:22 AM
way to go hope girls keep it up today it schould be a great game today i hope a lot of fans show up and watch the game today it would be nice
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on December 01, 2007, 09:17:18 AM
Quote from: oldknight on November 30, 2007, 11:26:19 PM
Quote from: hope81 on November 30, 2007, 10:23:06 PM

  And I think Snikkers is starting to understand the Hope system. 


16 points, 9 boards and 4 blocks in 21 minutes? Yeah, I would say so.

Here's the link for Dan D'Addona's take on the game with comments from Morehouse and Snikkers in today's Sentinel.

http://hollandsentinel.com/stories/120107/localsports_20071201065.shtml
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 01, 2007, 02:56:56 PM
Carthage 52 Calvin 50

Hope 73 Wheaton 56

Carries Snikkers with 15 and 5 bds. off the bench.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on December 01, 2007, 03:06:14 PM
Quote from: sac on December 01, 2007, 02:56:56 PM
Carthage 52 Calvin 50

wow! I think we all expected Calvin to have a tough early start to their season due to injuries but I never expected to see them lose both games this weekend!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on December 01, 2007, 08:39:28 PM
Some notes from today's first game:

1.  There are NO players from Wisconsin on Carthage's team. Kinda interesting.

2.  Carthage played like they forgot about the time change. Just a bit slower and their passing a bit fuzzy.

3.  Bounce passing is going to kill me yet!!!!!!!!!  Watching both teams try to execute the "bounce pass" got scarier and scarier as the game went on - kinda like driving home from Holland to Kazoo this evening. Holy Not Fun!!  But as Dorothy shares with Toto, "There's no place like home!"

4.  Carthaged TOTALLY depended on #54, who was a good player, but one player does not make a team!

5.  Carthage never gave up. Behind by about a dozen in the second half they just kept chipping away. A note to the coach from Carthage:  When totally disgusted/disappointed with the play of your team, if you're going to turn your back on them, hand the game over to an assistant coach so that they'll know that someone believes in them.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on December 01, 2007, 09:05:30 PM
Some notes from today's second game:

1.  When Carrie Snickers entered the game and scored her first points, the person that I was sitting by, we both mentioned it would be fun for everybody at the game sometime later in the season to be given a Snickers candy bar as they entered the DeVos, and then we'd hold them up in her honor. Well... the guys who run the giant scoreboard must have been evesdropping as there was a HUGE graphic of a Snickers candy bar on the scoreboard when Carrie scored. That was fun!

2.  At the beginning of the game I made a note to myself to check the number of minutes played for #45 for Wheaton. I was going to guess that the coach would play her for much of the game, but as the game progressed, I saw that she didn't have the stamina for a full game and ended up playing 27 minutes. But later I wondered the same for #21, and looking at the stats, YEP, all 40 minutes!  And that same tone came across in her play. As there is "me" in the word team! Don't get me wrong, she is a good player, but she needs to remember that there are four others out there at the same time that she is playing.

3.  Is Linebacking 101 an official class at Wheaton? Instead of snowing outside it was raining offense charging/pushing by the Thunder in the first half!

4.  Before I forget - a REALLY COOL NATIONAL ANTHEM done by a group of women members from the Holland Chorale!  VERY IMPRESSIVE!!! It would be really sweet if they could sing prior to one of the games when Hope hosts the Final Four Tournament!

5.  Hope Ladies - Lots of good things. The game was close the first half with Hope leading 32-30, but then the depth of Hopes team was too much for the Thunder. Hope just kept substituting with just as strong or even stronger players. They led in rebounding, assists, steals and had half as many turnovers as Wheaton.  They're just a lot of fun to watch, and... they have fun playing too!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on December 01, 2007, 09:38:04 PM
One last thing. It was interesting noting that when I looked at Wheaton's roster, I noticed that players came from 9 states! For those of us in the MIAA most of our players come much more regionally, if not within a two hour radius of the school. Being limited in knowledge about other teams, I wondered about Washington U. in St. Louis, since they are also a school that receives students nationwide. They have players from 16 states on the Women's Basketball team!!!  I'm going to guess that the majority of D3 schools have players on a team that are more regionally vs. nationally, but it would be fun to hear from others on this!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Grutte Dirk on December 01, 2007, 10:24:15 PM
Quote from: hope81 on November 30, 2007, 10:23:06 PM

And I think Snikkers is starting to understand the Hope system.


If by "Hope system" you mean .... take ball, be tall, score again and again .... then I'd agree.  She's starting to understand.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on December 02, 2007, 08:49:17 AM
good job hope girls keep it rolling all seasson long
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on December 04, 2007, 11:15:47 PM
Several comments regarding the Hope women's basketball team after their impressive 5-0 start:

1) Of their top 8 scorers, five of them have yet to start a game this year.  Another way of looking at it is that five "non-starters" have outscored two starters.  And it's not because they have more playing time.   These five "non-starters" have totaled 343 minutes while scoring 181 points, while the five starters (who started every game this year) have totaled 441 minutes while scoring 171.   Incidentally, also of the 8 top scorers, only 2 are seniors, 2 juniors, 3 sophmores, and 1 freshman.

2) The leading scorer of the team has averaged only 10.8 points per game.

The Dutch have now been ranked # 1 in the USA Today/ESPN poll, and # 3 in the  D3 Hoops poll.

Heard an interesting post-game interview with Asst. Coach Dean Morehouse this past weekend.  When asked about the starters and the reserves, he stated that Hope only has two teams:  Those playing on the floor at that moment, and those on the bench.  He never used the words starters or reserves, or 1st and 2nd team.  When the interviewer brought up Carrie Snickers, he said that she is still a freshman who like the other freshmen is still learing the Hope system.  He then praised her for her talent.  Spoken like a true veteran coach who keeps things in perspective.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 05, 2007, 09:13:26 PM
Hope 92 Marygrove 40

http://www.miaa.org/wbb/stats/0708/1205magr.htm

Hope takes on Albion Saturday following the men's tournament.  Good double-header against good competition.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on December 05, 2007, 10:57:33 PM
Quote from: sac on December 05, 2007, 09:13:26 PM
Hope 92 Marygrove 40

Hope takes on Albion Saturday following the men's tournament.  Good double-header against good competition.

As Oldknight said at the game tonight, they keep outscoring the opposition 5-2 every two minutes or so. They never seemed to go on a big run, but every time you looked up at the score board, the lead was 10 points larger. Hope's women came at Marygrove in waves. It really wasn't fair. I was most impressed with Kaitlyn Kopke - she's fearless, and quick.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on December 06, 2007, 04:00:34 PM
man what a blowout last night  hope they do it saturday to vs albion it would be nice if they could
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 06, 2007, 10:36:27 PM
Hope 6-0 vs Albion 6-0

Last year Albion beat Hope at Albion, one of Hope's 4 losses.  The win by Hope in DeVos was a game Hope dominated, but Albion never quit and made it a game in the end, it should be a good contest.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on December 08, 2007, 09:03:53 AM
Quote from: sac on December 06, 2007, 10:36:27 PM
Hope 6-0 vs Albion 6-0

Last year Albion beat Hope at Albion, one of Hope's 4 losses.  The win by Hope in DeVos was a game Hope dominated, but Albion never quit and made it a game in the end, it should be a good contest.

Albion's best player appears to be a player with whom I am familiar, Brittany Kemperman, who prepped at GR Catholic Center. She was a good high school player and a very accurate shooter but I'm pretty sure the Brits will be outmanned (or, outwomaned) tonight. Hope has 10 players as good (or better) than Kemperman. Other players of note for Albion are Guimond (6'2") and Till (6'0") who seem to carry the inside scoring load as well as rebounding. From Albion's season box it looks like the Brits beat teams largely on the strength of rebounding (45 to 30). Hope can throw talented big players at Albion in waves and the Brits are not likely to enjoy the fruits of a dominating rebounding margin. I don't anticipate a particularly close game. Hope by 20+.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on December 08, 2007, 07:13:59 PM
Margins of victory by the Women's Top 13.

(2) Howard Payne 36.2
(3) Hope 31.5
(7) UW Whitewater 28.7
(1) Mary Washington 28
(5) Kean 27.5
(4) Messiah 25.3
(12) Illinois Wesleyan 23.4
(13) Simpson 23
(6) NYU 21.4
(9) Southern Maine 18.7
(11) Thomas More 17
(8) DePauw 14.5
(10) McMurry 11.8
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 08, 2007, 11:08:46 PM
Hope 75 Albion 63

Hope played one outstanding half and led by 19, then played one less than outstanding half and were beaten by 7.  Not much different than last years contest with Albion really.  The Brits are really young and play really hard, they sure didn't give up.  I thought Hope lost their edge with the big first half.

Hope was never threatened, I don't believe the lead ever reached less than 12 after the initial Hope burst.  Hope's indeed loaded, there are a LOT of nice pieces on the floor at all times.  I left feeling Albion is a really good team.

Carrie Snikkers in a Hope uniform is well...........its just going to be unfair :D.   She had an off night shooting, but 6-3 and can shoot 3's prettier than anyone else?   She had enough really good plays to make me say wow several times.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gottaluvhoops on December 10, 2007, 09:41:59 AM
Hope train is still rolling!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on December 12, 2007, 04:08:09 PM
yes and i hope they keep it rolling all year long  it would be great
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on December 15, 2007, 05:07:22 PM
Hope beats North Central, 70 - 59.  Game was not that close, as Hope was up by 28 at one point in the second half.

Warsen is the only player in double figures with 10.  Everyone scores except for one player.  Have not seen the stats yet, but the Flying Dutch "D" created a large number of turnovers.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on December 15, 2007, 07:56:01 PM
yes a lot of turnovers for both teams and a lot of shots missed
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on December 15, 2007, 08:09:45 PM
Quote from: AlwaysHope on December 15, 2007, 05:07:22 PM
Hope beats North Central, 70 - 59.  Game was not that close, as Hope was up by 28 at one point in the second half.

Warsen is the only player in double figures with 10.  Everyone scores except for one player.  Have not seen the stats yet, but the Flying Dutch "D" created a large number of turnovers.

According to the box Warsen got her 10 on only 3 shots (she went 6-8 from the line). Hope forced 36 turnovers, getting an amazing 24 steals. I see that Hope, after taking a commanding 60-32 lead, got outscored 27-10 the last 10 minutes of the game. Apparently boredom set in.

While I can respect what Morehouse has done with Hope's women in his tenure, I continue to think it was a mistake for him to carry 16 players on his varsity roster. He has 6 freshmen on his varsity and I see at least 2 who should have been placed on the JV team. He has several excellent varsity players--young ladies who could start at other schools--who are getting as little as 10-12 minutes in some games. In fact, only 3 players average more than 15 minutes per game (Boles leads with 20.1)and I wouldn't be surprised if some of these women aren't real happy about that. Eventually Hope will find a competitive opponent and game and when that happens we will see if the limited minutes his most important players are currently playing have prepared them properly for that type of game. I'm wondering about that myself.

Calvin, even with their losses from graduation and players who chose not to play, could offer that kind of competition. The Lady Knights, though not as deep or talented as Hope, do have some tough minded, blue collar players who could pull an upset on Hope. I'm wondering how Hope would react to a gut-check, rivalry game that challenges them. Every good team needs consistency to get over the hump of a 25+ game schedule and we don't know if Hope has developed that yet because their best players don't play enough.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on December 15, 2007, 08:43:36 PM
Interesting observations, OldKnight.

So far, Hope's women have been so vastly superior to most teams they've played that one has to presume that practice provides the needed challenge.  One benefit of the second five being so nearly equal to the first five is that both groups face tough competition and a hard workout most practice days, I'd guess.  (Game day may be something of a let up.)

Today, the Hope women put in the five players who hadn't yet played with just under 10 minutes to go and the score 60 to 32.  Meanwhile the North Central coach seemed not to go to the end of her bench, and in fact was playing her first five for the game's final minutes, during which the margin shrunk.  So, yes, the final score does not tell the story.

Several times in the last few minutes I was impressed with the athleticism of Erika Bruinsma, who was comfortably able, though 6' 1", to dribble through traffic.  I expect to see a lot more from her the next three years.

Even on an off-shooting day, with lots of missed layups and only 1 3-point shot, Hope's women (like its men) thrive on its defense.  I see Philly Green was only credited with one steal, but her intense defense seemed to lead to a lot of turnovers and steals by others.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on December 16, 2007, 10:12:43 AM
also  it was nice to see  jordyn  get her 1000  points  at home yesterday  maybe they will have some close game this week friday and saturday it would be nice to see a close game 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Trailer Dog on December 16, 2007, 11:32:52 AM
Quote from: pointlem on December 15, 2007, 08:43:36 PM

.....Even on an off-shooting day, with lots of missed layups and only 1 3-point shot, Hope's women (like its men) thrive on its defense.  I see Philly Green was only credited with one steal, but her intense defense seemed to lead to a lot of turnovers and steals by others.

Another reason the Dutch will win it all this winter.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 18, 2007, 04:12:13 PM
 A former Knight made the notables today.

http://www.d3hoops.com/notables.php
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 19, 2007, 09:41:50 PM
Albion 78, Calvin 51    whoa!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on December 19, 2007, 10:18:53 PM
Albion drowned and battered Calvin tonight using a rain of Brit 3's and a hail of Lady Knight turnovers. Albion methodically pulled into a 12 point lead at half and simply did more of the same in the second. Albion is a young club and displayed a balanced inside-out game that didn't show up at DeVos earlier this month. After so-so shooting in the first half the Knights shot miserably in the second. Calvin did OK on the boards but got beat to all the loose balls. But the big problem for Calvin was the turnovers, committing many silly ones that led to fast breaks and easy shots for the Brits. John Ross tried to pull all the strings, using up all his time outs by the 14:48 mark of the second half, but to no avail. It didn't help Calvin that Kristi Brummel never got on the floor and I have no idea why.

Since Albion got swamped in the first half against Hope earlier this month I think this young Brit team has made improvement and is the only possible speed bump for the Hope women on the way to their league title. Albion has enough size and good shooting to give Hope a game at Kresge. I imagine the Albion women have circled January 19 on their calendar and would like some payback that Saturday.

One sidenote about Calvin's lone freshmen on the varsity roster--Kacy Cryderman. I was very interested in her last name because a Paul Cryderman played for Albion during the Mark Veenstra years. Paul was an excellent player and a two-time All-Conference selection, a great rebounder and defender for the Brits, the prototype of a Mike Turner hoopster. It only took about three times up and down the court for me to realize that Kacy was a similar type player from the distaff side. She ran the court well, played strong and unintimidated and showed that she is a very good 6'1" female athlete. During the course of the game two guys sitting in front of me were talking about her so I inquired about her pedigree and--lo and behold--she is Paul Cryderman's daughter. According to Paul's former roomie at Albion, the Brits never showed much interest in her as a prepster but John Ross did so she's at Knollcrest now. I find this be even stranger and more interesting than if a Hope alum had his daughter playing at Calvin. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on December 21, 2007, 03:50:26 PM
going to the girls game tonight i hope for some good games this week would  be nice to watch
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on December 21, 2007, 10:53:21 PM
WOW!  Calvin's Lisa Winkle wins the NCAA "Top VIII" award.  See miaa.org for details.  First MIAA player to receive this honor!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 21, 2007, 10:54:55 PM
Hope 75 St. Mary's 58

Hope hosts 7-2 Hanover tommorrow afternoon.  They've each beaten DefianceOH, Hope by 23, Hanover 13.

This could be a good matchup.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on December 22, 2007, 09:04:24 AM
it looks like they want to press the hole game full court  it schould be a pretty good game i think to
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on December 22, 2007, 04:40:25 PM
Hope destroys a good Hanover team 88-49. 

Boles 12
Snikkers 13 pts, 7 reb, 3 stl, 3 blk in 14 minutes of work.  Imagine what she would do if she started and played 25 min.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on December 23, 2007, 09:15:43 AM
yes the hope girls played really good it is going to take a really good team to beat hope
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dumezrules on December 23, 2007, 08:42:42 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on December 22, 2007, 04:40:25 PM


Snikkers 13 pts, 7 reb, 3 stl, 3 blk in 14 minutes of work.  Imagine what she would do if she started and played 25 min.

From what I have seen, she would need an oxygen mask to play that long....she isnt in the shape some of the other girls are

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: SKOT on December 27, 2007, 03:05:47 PM
Does Albion deserve to be in the national conversation?  They are 8-1 with a couple of good wins over Brockport State (5-1) and Calvin (6-3).  When the next top 25 comes out, i believe they should get at least a couple of votes!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on December 27, 2007, 03:50:11 PM
SKOT: Good Question. 

Albion is certainly the best team Hope has faced this year - including Wheaton and Carthage which both beat ranked teams.  Looking ahead at the Britons schedule it looks like they should win the upcoming games with Wisconsin-Superior and Concordia (Illinois).  After that it is all league play.  With the convincing win against Calvin it looks possible that Albion could finish with three losses - all of them to Hope.  (I assume that Hope's depth will result in victories even though Albion is always tough on their home court).

If the Britons finish with a 24-3 record with all the losses coming against the #1 or #2 team (depending on the poll) they should at least make the post season.

In terms of cracking the top 25 I think their schedule works against them with a couple of NAIA games, a weak conference and only one ranked school on the schedule.   D3 rankings are based a lot on reputation - just look at Calvin's votes early in the year when it was fairly well known within the region that graduation, attrition, injuries and a transfer had weakened the team.  So I would not be surprised if they fly under the radar unless they beat Hope.  However, if the Britons win at least one game in the post-season and return this year's underclassman they will get votes next year.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on December 27, 2007, 06:18:52 PM
Quote from: dumezrules on December 23, 2007, 08:42:42 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on December 22, 2007, 04:40:25 PM


Snikkers 13 pts, 7 reb, 3 stl, 3 blk in 14 minutes of work.  Imagine what she would do if she started and played 25 min.

From what I have seen, she would need an oxygen mask to play that long....she isnt in the shape some of the other girls are



I will grant that Snikkers may not be in as good a shape as she was last year but to say that "she would need an oxygen mask to play that long" is a comment laden with hyperbole. In last year's Class B semifinal win over Detroit Country Day she played 35 of the 36 minutes available--including the entire 4 minute overtime--without any noticeable laboring or drop in production. In Hope's win Saturday against Hanover, Snikkers displayed some of the reasons why she is such a dominating figure on the court--it's because she is such an efficient player who doesn't waste energy, makes good decisions, and is typically in the right place at the right time. This is particularly true on defense where her contributions are hardly even noticed by the casual fan who typically focuses on how many points are scored. Hanover had a pretty good freshmen post player (Martin) who scored 6 early points before Snikkers ever got on the floor. In less than three minutes of play, Martin attempted 6 shots from the floor while being guarded by Carrie. Two were blocked, the other four had little chance of success and none went in. Later, after Hanover realized giving the ball to their post player wasn't a recipe for offensive success, Snikkers sniffed out passes to Hanover players she was not guarding. She totally disrupted any offensive flow Hanover was trying to create and she started several breaks with her ability to quickly outlet the ball to a streaking Hope player.  I was sitting close to the floor and I never noticed any need for oxygen.

Quote from: SKOT on December 27, 2007, 03:05:47 PM
Does Albion deserve to be in the national conversation?  They are 8-1 with a couple of good wins over Brockport State (5-1) and Calvin (6-3).  When the next top 25 comes out, i believe they should get at least a couple of votes!

Absolutely. I saw Albion against both Hope and Calvin and if Pat gave me his ballot I would definately give the Brits a vote in the Top 20. They have solid players both inside and out, shoot the ball well, and play good defense. I don't think they will lose many games this year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 27, 2007, 08:26:03 PM
My experience with women's basketball is admittedly minimal but I certainly left the Hope/Albion game feeling like Hope beat a pretty good basketball team.  The blowout of Calvin should confirm that.

I think Hope (and anyone for that matter) will have their hands full with the Brits the rest of the season.  Thats a good young, developing team.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on December 28, 2007, 06:33:42 AM
yes i thought albion was pretty good to they wont lose to many games maybe 2 losses in the miaa both to hope
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 30, 2007, 11:13:42 PM
Looks like the Lady Dutch will be the new #1 in the next poll.  #5 UW-Whitewater knocks off current #1 Mary Washington 70-67 today.  We'll see but it seems likely.

Just in time for a Jan 9 meeting at Calvin. ;)  Tri-State will get the first shot Jan 5.



Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 31, 2007, 01:08:39 PM
Rough weekend for the Lady Hornets of Kalamazoo, on Saturday they lost on a layup/w foul + the Free throw with 2 seconds on the clock.......Redlands 58 Kalamazoo 56

On Sunday, they lost a double OT thriller to Wooster 93-92 which included a 3 with 1:17 left to tie for Kzoo, a 3 to go ahead by 3 just 20 seconds later, and another Kzoo 3 20 seconds later to tie and eventually send the game into OT.  All while surviving 2 final last second attempts by Wooster.

The first OT included a heartbreaking miss at the FT line with 10 seconds to go, which would have won the game, and again surviving a last second 3.

The second OT saw Wooster held scoreless for 2 1/2 minutes before bombing in their last 3, 3 point shots, including the game winner with just 6 seconds to go.  The final minutes included 2 missed Kzoo FT's which could have meant a 3rd OT.

http://www.miaa.org/wbb/stats/0708/1230kzwo.htm
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on January 01, 2008, 07:42:24 PM
Word on the street right now is that if you're looking for FINAL FOUR tickets, then you had better HOPE that your team is one of the final four. That's because ALL of the general admission and reserved seats have been sold out!! That's pretty spectacular!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 02, 2008, 08:07:55 PM
As expected the Dutch claim the top spot in the latest poll, receiving 11 #1 votes.

Mary Washington had 16 first place which changed hands this week.

#1 Hope +4
#2 Whitewater +6
#3 Howard Payne +3
#4 New York +3

Only 24 poll points separate #1 from #3
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on January 03, 2008, 02:15:27 PM
Quote from: oldknight on October 24, 2007, 01:59:22 PM


The preseason poll has Hope ranked 12th and based on who they have coming back and the entering freshmen (including Michigan's Class B Player of the Year) this ranking is too low. If Hope stays healthy this year they've got the makings of a Final Four team.
Quote from: sac on January 02, 2008, 08:07:55 PM
As expected the Dutch claim the top spot in the latest poll, receiving 11 #1 votes.

Mary Washington had 16 first place which changed hands this week.

#1 Hope +4
#2 Whitewater +6
#3 Howard Payne +3
#4 New York +3

Only 24 poll points separate #1 from #3

It's funny how I can take no particular pleasure in being right. :(
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 03, 2008, 03:21:47 PM
Quote from: oldknight on January 03, 2008, 02:15:27 PM
Quote from: oldknight on October 24, 2007, 01:59:22 PM


The preseason poll has Hope ranked 12th and based on who they have coming back and the entering freshmen (including Michigan's Class B Player of the Year) this ranking is too low. If Hope stays healthy this year they've got the makings of a Final Four team.
Quote from: sac on January 02, 2008, 08:07:55 PM
As expected the Dutch claim the top spot in the latest poll, receiving 11 #1 votes.

Mary Washington had 16 first place which changed hands this week.

#1 Hope +4
#2 Whitewater +6
#3 Howard Payne +3
#4 New York +3

Only 24 poll points separate #1 from #3

It's funny how I can take no particular pleasure in being right. :(

And maybe even funnier that lots of Hope fans are HOPEing your right about the Final Four
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 03, 2008, 10:47:07 PM
Per Dave Collinge's excellent work on the Daily Dose this is the first time Hope has been ranked #1 during the regular season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on January 04, 2008, 04:29:39 PM
yes that is nice it looks like saturday game will be a another blow out for the hope girls vs tri state compared to what the stats are
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Grutte Dirk on January 05, 2008, 02:18:21 AM
Quote from: hope1 on January 04, 2008, 04:29:39 PM
yes that is nice it looks like saturday game will be a another blow out for the hope girls vs tri state compared to what the stats are

When isn't Hope v. anyone not be a blowout?  Unless they can play GVSU they're not going to see anything close to them until the NCAAs; and maybe not even then.

IMO, talent-wise the 2007-2008 Dutch are the best women's hoops team the MIAA's ever seen.  Agreed?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 05, 2008, 03:48:23 AM
Quote from: Bilk on January 05, 2008, 02:18:21 AM

IMO, talent-wise the 2007-2008 Dutch are the best women's hoops team the MIAA's ever seen.  Agreed?

I think we're a long way from finding that out.

BEST OVERALL RECORD
33-1 Hope, 2005-06 ==National Champion
31-1 Hope, 2002-03
28-3 Calvin, 2006-07
27-3 Hope, 2001-02
25-3    Hope, 2000-01
24-2    Hope, 1989-90 ==National Champion
24-3 Alma, 1991-92 ==National Champion

There have been some awfully talented women's teams in the MIAA's history. 


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on January 05, 2008, 03:33:19 PM
Does anyone know why Stacy Warsen did not start and has not played?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 05, 2008, 05:57:58 PM
Hope 81 Trine 58

....not bad for a team that was 3-22 from 3  :-\, no word on Miss Warsen.  How do you get 30 more shots at the basket than your oponent (rhetorical, I know how).  84 shots in one game.......thats going to ruin their efficiency rating.



Albion 75 Olivet 66 OT

.....Albion dodges  a huge bullet as Olivet makes 1 of 2 FT's with :09 remaining in regulation.  Then the Brits dominate the OT.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on January 06, 2008, 09:05:36 AM
i think she sprained her ankle she was limping  pretty good and resting her up for wed night at calvin
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 06, 2008, 05:03:16 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on January 05, 2008, 03:33:19 PM
Does anyone know why Stacy Warsen did not start and has not played?

The Sentinel blog said she sprained he ankle while "tubing" in Traverse City ..........I would hope that such a smart, intelligent young Hope student was tubing on snow and not water in January.  :D ;)

She was held out of the game in hopes she would be 100% or close to it for Calvin on Wednesday.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 06, 2008, 08:38:42 PM
sac,

There are plenty of indoor waterparks in the Traverse City area.  But, true, if outdoors, tubing on water this time of year might call for psychiatric intervention! ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hopetix on January 07, 2008, 11:52:15 AM
Wanted to clarify about Final Four tickets for women's final four being held at Hope in March. What is sold out at this point are the reserved seats for Saturday's championship and consolation games. There are about 10 reserved seats left for Friday's two games. At this point there are still quite a few general admission tickets left. Those are not sold out.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Civic Minded on January 07, 2008, 05:43:01 PM
Quote from: Hopetix on January 07, 2008, 11:52:15 AM
Wanted to clarify about Final Four tickets for women's final four being held at Hope in March. What is sold out at this point are the reserved seats for Saturday's championship and consolation games. There are about 10 reserved seats left for Friday's two games. At this point there are still quite a few general admission tickets left. Those are not sold out.



Welcome, Hopetix!   ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Civic Minded on January 07, 2008, 05:43:30 PM
Quote from: Hopetix on January 07, 2008, 11:52:15 AM
Wanted to clarify about Final Four tickets for women's final four being held at Hope in March. What is sold out at this point are the reserved seats for Saturday's championship and consolation games. There are about 10 reserved seats left for Friday's two games. At this point there are still quite a few general admission tickets left. Those are not sold out.


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gottaluvhoops on January 09, 2008, 11:32:06 AM
Early predictions for the final four?  Hope should be there!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 09, 2008, 02:47:01 PM
Livestats and broadcast for tonight's games at www.miaa.org

Hope at Calvin at 6pm.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on January 09, 2008, 03:19:02 PM
Quote from: gottaluvhoops on January 09, 2008, 11:32:06 AM
Early predictions for the final four?  Hope should be there!!

I wish I could participate, but there is not enough information to work with.

I Hope that the Dutch will be there as much as anyone and have already purchased reserved seats.  However, I think it is almost impossible to make final four predictions in D3 since we do not see any teams from other regions play,  there aren no televised games and few common opponents among the top teams.

For instance, the #2 ranked team, Wisconsin - Whitewater, is no more than a five hour drive and in a neighboring state, but shares no common opponents with Hope.  I did not know anything about Howard Payne so I checked their site and found they are a successful program with size and it looks like they could match up well with Hope.

When the field is down to 16 there may be enough common opponents to make some reasonable guesses.

I am more concerned about tonight's game with Calvin.  On paper, it is an easy victory, but I doubt Calvin will roll over on their home court.

So whille I suspect Hope has a great chance, I wish they had a tougher schedule to prepare for the off season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 09, 2008, 03:49:35 PM
Past NCAA pairings have also put Hope in regions that would include UW Whitewater and were in DePauw's region the past 2 seasons.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on January 09, 2008, 10:29:04 PM
In a game dominated by defense, Hope won 56-39. The Lady Knights shot miserably (13 of 56) but that was exclusively due to Hope's defensive pressure which was suffocating all night. Calvin needed a big game from Harris and from one perimeter player but Hope's bigs hounded Marcia into a 3 for 16 night. Calvin went 3 for 15 from the arc and I don't think any one of those trey attempts could be considered an open look. Hope's defense reacted so spontaneously to every offensive move, that Calvin's offense never was comfortable.

I actually think the Lady Knights did well to keep this a competitive game until about the 5 minute mark. Calvin stayed in the game with pretty good defense of their own and made life pretty miserable for Greene who had a lousy game, getting twice as many turnovers as points (8 to 4). If the much smaller Lady Knights could have kept Hope off the boards (Hope had 15 second chances) Calvin would have kept this game closer. Calvin should be credited with giving Hope its poorest offensive showing of the season. Hope opened up a double digit lead in the first half largely on the strength of Snikkers' outside shooting. Carrie had a double/double with 15 points and 12 boards in a game high 22 minutes of play.

This is the third time I've seen Hope's women play this year and the more I watch them the more I'm convinced that Cowen is--by far--the best athlete on the team. She has all the attributes necessary to be a star. She's quick, fast and has outstanding lateral movement. Combined with her tenacity she can make life miserable for anyone she's guarding. She is also a good ball handler and has nice form on her jumper. When there's a loose ball on the floor she typically comes away with it. She reminds me a little bit of a Steve Cramer from the distaff side.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 10, 2008, 01:25:33 AM
15pts and 12rbs in 22 minutes............... ::)


....and I agree about Cowen.  8)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on January 10, 2008, 06:44:40 AM
way to go girls keep it rolling now olivet saturday  good job on beating calvin wed night
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on January 12, 2008, 05:21:03 PM
Calvin loses to Adrian 61-54. Adrian finished the game on a 31-13 run over the last 12 minutes. Calvin's shooting woes continue hitting only 30% for the game and 21% in the second half. Adrian grabbed 14 offensive boards. Harris had a double/double with 18 and 10 and Zimmerman added 10 points. On the positive side Brummel saw 20 minutes of action and scored six. Looks like a tough year for the Lady Knights.

The Hope freight train keeps rolling with a 65-48 win over Olivet. A quick look at the live stats shows that Snikkers was a DNP. I know she has tendinitis in one ankle and--despite her double/double against Calvin Wednesday--she was visibly limping that night. Apparently it's gotten worse.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on January 12, 2008, 10:01:08 PM
Quote from: oldknight on January 12, 2008, 05:21:03 PM
Calvin loses to Adrian 61-54. Adrian finished the game on a 31-13 run over the last 12 minutes. Calvin's shooting woes continue hitting only 30% for the game and 21% in the second half. Adrian grabbed 14 offensive boards. Harris had a double/double with 18 and 10 and Zimmerman added 10 points. On the positive side Brummel saw 20 minutes of action and scored six. Looks like a tough year for the Lady Knights.

The Hope freight train keeps rolling with a 65-48 win over Olivet. A quick look at the live stats shows that Snikkers was a DNP. I know she has tendinitis in one ankle and--despite her double/double against Calvin Wednesday--she was visibly limping that night. Apparently it's gotten worse.

My sister was at the women's game, sitting near at least one of the jayvees.  She heard that Carrie has a stress fracture in her foot, and is in a walking cast.  I HOPE she has a speedy recovery.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on January 12, 2008, 11:09:51 PM
The score makes Hope's victory seem more decisive than it felt watching the game.  The Dutch's lead was single digits most of the second half, Olivet narrowed the lead to 7 points on more than one occasion and was trailing by only nine points with three mins. left.

Hope's offense seems to be out of sync since the break with many missed layups and relatively few three pointers - but they continue to win by comfortable margins.  Everyone continues to play tough defense and they are winning games by limiting their opponents opportunities.

Warsen played, but obviously continues to be hobbled by the ankle injury and as previously mentioned Snikkers DNP due to a foot injury.  I heard that while it is possibly a stress fracture she does not yet have a definitive diagnosis.  Hope did not have any scoring from the forward position this afternoon except for late in the game when centers Knox (picking up Snikkers' minutes) and Lange were in the game together and by default one had to play the 4 position.

There were some bright spots.  The Dutch dominated inside.  Together Knox (13) and Lange (12) scored 25.  Both were able to consitently post up inside. However, they missed a total of 16 shots, most of which they normally would have easily made.  The poor shooting was partially offset by each going to the line eight times and making 11 of the 16.  Looking at the stats it appears Knox made 5 of 6 down the stretch. 

Green. as always, played great defense and shot 5 for 8.

Henderson, who unselfishly seems to be defense and assit focused this year, took matters in her own hands and took the ball to the basket when things were tight and Hope needed a score.  She scored only one fieldgoal, but made 6 of 7 from the line.

The Dutch have proved they can win when one part of their game is not working.  The injury to Snikkers is unfortunate, but Hope has the luxury of giving her time to recover without rushing her back into service.  How many teams have the depth at post to play without the services of players the caliber of Snikkers and Warsen* and to have the "third string" center lead the team in scoring and rebounds.

I am sure the team will be firing on all cylinders soon.  Perhaps having to work through some tough games will help them prepare for the post-season.

*Edited from original which said "Snikkers and Lange."  Lange played (as noted earlier in the post) and was effective on both offense and defense.  Warsen put in her minutes, but it appeared the ankle limited her offensively. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 13, 2008, 09:12:02 PM
Reason #1 teams shouldn't be penciled into a final four in December.---Injuries.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on January 13, 2008, 11:01:17 PM
Coach Morehouse said tonight that he hoped that Snickers would be out only four weeks, just in time for the second Calvin game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on January 14, 2008, 06:46:11 PM
You know... This is all due to Pat's "looking like" optimism.  ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 15, 2008, 12:51:42 PM
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on January 14, 2008, 06:46:11 PM
You know... This is all due to Pat's "looking like" optimism.  ;)

Listening to hoopsville the other night I kind of got the feeling they might think Hope is the #1 team in the country.  They didn't seem very definitive in their opinoin.  ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 15, 2008, 09:14:25 PM
I've heard some talk away from the boards that while Hope's women's team is very good, the perception is they've played a very weak schedule.

According to massey's ratings for schedule strength,

Olivet #8
Calvin #28
Albion #37
St. Mary's #46
Hope #47
Adrian #70
Tri-State #94
Kalamazoo #171
Alma #200

#47 is much better than what I would have thought listening to others complain about their lack of competition.  In fact its downright impressive that 7 of 9 are in the top 100 and all 9 are in the top half for schedule strength.

Overall the league ranks #10 which I believe is pretty good on a historical basis for the league.  I think 7 of the 9 are in the top half of D3.


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on January 16, 2008, 08:34:26 AM
Quote from: sac on January 15, 2008, 09:14:25 PM
I've heard some talk away from the boards that while Hope's women's team is very good, the perception is they've played a very weak schedule.

According to massey's ratings for schedule strength,

Olivet #8
Calvin #28
Albion #37
St. Mary's #46
Hope #47
Adrian #70
Tri-State #94
Kalamazoo #171
Alma #200

#47 is much better than what I would have thought listening to others complain about their lack of competition.  In fact its downright impressive that 7 of 9 are in the top 100 and all 9 are in the top half for schedule strength.

Overall the league ranks #10 which I believe is pretty good on a historical basis for the league.  I think 7 of the 9 are in the top half of D3.




Thanks for compiling this list, sac,both here and on the men's board.  I'm wondering how the other teams in the top ten are ranked (both men and women)?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on January 16, 2008, 09:25:41 AM
Has there been any word in the Holland Sentinel or the Holland gossip underworld since Sunday on the status of Snikkers?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on January 16, 2008, 04:37:36 PM
Quote from: DCHopeNut on January 16, 2008, 09:25:41 AM
Has there been any word in the Holland Sentinel or the Holland gossip underworld since Sunday on the status of Snikkers?

An X-Ray showed no break and a bone scan also did not detect any fracture but some swelling is still present. The plan is to keep her foot in a boot the rest of this week and then reevaluate it. Apparently the doctor isn't sure what's going on either but if the swelling subsides Snikkers might be back on the court next week.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on January 16, 2008, 06:04:29 PM
Quote from: oldknight on January 16, 2008, 04:37:36 PM
Quote from: DCHopeNut on January 16, 2008, 09:25:41 AM
Has there been any word in the Holland Sentinel or the Holland gossip underworld since Sunday on the status of Snikkers?

An X-Ray showed no break and a bone scan also did not detect any fracture but some swelling is still present. The plan is to keep her foot in a boot the rest of this week and then reevaluate it. Apparently the doctor isn't sure what's going on either but if the swelling subsides Snikkers might be back on the court next week.

Wow, that'd be great news for Hope. And well not good news at all for the rest of the MIAA.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on January 16, 2008, 09:19:48 PM
The Lady Knights hammer Olivet 93-61, shooting 64.4% from the floor. It appears Calvin's shooting woes ended with a bang (hopefully for the season) and Olivet was the unlucky recipient of the reawakening.

Hope beat Adrian 75-54 breaking away from a 36-25 half time lead. Apparently Hope was never seriously challenged in the second half.

The shocker of the night--Alma clubbing Albion 76-57. 'Ya think the Brits might have been lookin' ahead to Saturday's game against Hope?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on January 17, 2008, 02:02:56 PM
Quote from: DCHopeNut on January 16, 2008, 06:04:29 PM
Quote from: oldknight on January 16, 2008, 04:37:36 PM
Quote from: DCHopeNut on January 16, 2008, 09:25:41 AM
Has there been any word in the Holland Sentinel or the Holland gossip underworld since Sunday on the status of Snikkers?

An X-Ray showed no break and a bone scan also did not detect any fracture but some swelling is still present. The plan is to keep her foot in a boot the rest of this week and then reevaluate it. Apparently the doctor isn't sure what's going on either but if the swelling subsides Snikkers might be back on the court next week.

Wow, that'd be great news for Hope. And well not good news at all for the rest of the MIAA.

It is good news, but there doesn't appear to be any reason to rush Snikkers back before she is near 100% and pain free.

Even with Carrie out there is little good news for  the rest of MIAA.  Hope is deep at the 5 position.  In the last two games Lange and Knox have combined for 42 pts, 28 rbs, and 7 stls in a total 73 mins played.  Knox, filling in for Snikkers, has accounted for 20 pts, 18 rbs and 3 stls. 

There are few D3 teams with the big player depth of the Dutch.  Most teams have a big drop off in production from the first line post to the second line.  Not many can play three centers with good production with the option of having a fresh rested big player in the game all of the time.

Snikkers is very important to the ulitimate success of the team, but what she really needs to do is get healthy, and play enough games to be sharp for the conference tourney and post-season.

While Lange and Knox are doing an outstanding job, there are important dimensions that Snikkers brings to the game.  She is a good perimeter player and three point shooter.  (I don't recall Knox or Lange and three point shot being used together  :)).  These talents provide Morehouse with options his opponents cannot employ.  If he needs to match up small, Warsen and O'Hare can fill their role.  Lange seems able to guard anyone.

However, if he wants to go big he can play two of the three 5's at the same time.  He did this in the second half at Calvin with Snikkers and Knox, and at Olivet with Lange and Knox when the score was a little tighter than desired and in both the cases the lead widened.  However, if only 2 or the three are available the Dutch can not go big to early in the game due to foul trouble concerns.

It seems that pairing Knox with Snikkers could be a powerful offensive combination.  Even though Knox has the eleventh most playing time, she is #1 in both total rebounds and offensive rebounds.  If Carrie goes outside the other team has to use size to guard against her shot and scramble to come up with a solution to an offensive rebounder.  Things would not be easier on the defensive boards since Snikkers is the best defensive rebounder.

Sorry for the long post and I do not mean to downplay the contribution of the guards.  Hope's trasition offense is dependent on their tough defense.  But this years team has something in common with the 2005 team that last year's team didn't and that is three productive big players.  In '05 it was Ebels, Woods and Lange.  This year's group is a little bigger, at least as productive and, with Snikkers outside shot, has added dimensions that were not available then.

If everyone is healthy at the end of the regular season, I will start to allow myself to become cautiously optimistic.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 17, 2008, 05:01:15 PM
WWWRHH - great post.  I had to laugh a bit at your comment about Hope playing small with Warsen and O'Hare - Stacy is 5'10" and Emily is 6'0".  Most DIII teams would love to have that size for their 5.  Heck Jullie Hendersen could play the 5 for most schools - she is 5'11". 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on January 17, 2008, 09:23:47 PM
An update on Snikkers. The boot will stay through next week. The following week Hope has no Wednesday game so the earliest she could see any game time would be Saturday, February 2 against Kazoo. By then she won't have played for over three weeks so I don't imagine she will get many minutes.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on January 18, 2008, 08:33:48 AM
it scould be a  pretty good game saturday vs albion i wish the game was on the radio for i could listen to the game maybe on live stats
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 19, 2008, 03:31:22 PM
About halfway through in Albion, and #1 is in a battle, trailing 16-9.   Were down 11-2 to start.

http://www.albion.edu/sports/stats/xlive.htm

The livestats board is stuck now, but the Hope women were down 12 to Albion, have now come back to make it 25-20 Albion.  Still stuck though.


Albion 37 Hope 24 at the half.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on January 19, 2008, 04:06:07 PM
Quote from: sac on January 19, 2008, 03:31:22 PM
About halfway through in Albion, and #1 is in a battle, trailing 16-9.   Were down 11-2 to start.

http://www.albion.edu/sports/stats/xlive.htm

The livestats board is stuck now, but the Hope women were down 12 to Albion, have now come back to make it 25-20 Albion.  Still stuck though.


Albion 37 Hope 24 at the half.

Wow. I expected a tough game but didn't foresee Hope being down 13 at the half! Trouble may be looming!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 19, 2008, 04:19:35 PM
Hope starts the second half on a 12-2 run, including 12 straight.

Albion 39 Hope 36  15 min to go.

All tied 45-45  9 to go
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on January 19, 2008, 04:41:45 PM
Heck of a turn around this half! Hope they can keep the mo.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 19, 2008, 04:51:18 PM
looks like the livestats are stuck again.  >:(
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on January 19, 2008, 04:52:29 PM
Quote from: sac on January 19, 2008, 04:51:18 PM
looks like the livestats are stuck again.  >:(

I know! The game is probably over at this point. Real close at least.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on January 19, 2008, 04:55:42 PM
Any other resources to get a score?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on January 19, 2008, 04:58:48 PM
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on January 19, 2008, 04:55:42 PM
Any other resources to get a score?

None, that I have been able to track down. No radio for the game unfortunately.

EDIT: Livestats seems to be working as the clock is going down again.
Didn't jump ahead though. just started up. I wonder if there was a 10 minute delay in the game for some reason??? Hopefully, not an injury or anything.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on January 19, 2008, 04:59:43 PM
60-54 Hope 3:55
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on January 19, 2008, 05:05:49 PM
62-60 Hope, 1:12 left
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on January 19, 2008, 05:09:16 PM
It seems to me that since livestats just stopped for about a 10-15 minute period and then started back up and counted down that something caused the game at Albion to experience a break in the action. Whenever I recall livestats stopping before once it picks back up it jumps ahead to wherever the game is in play.

If my really weak theory is correct I sure hope no one on either team experienced an injury.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on January 19, 2008, 05:11:16 PM
Looks like Albion is fouling...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on January 19, 2008, 05:13:18 PM
Hearts of CHAMPIONS right there I'll tell ya! Sweet win!!!

Congrats Ladies!!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 19, 2008, 05:13:23 PM
Wow, what an escape.   Way to go Dutch!

Hope 65 Albion 62,  Hope now has a 3 game lead in the loss column.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on January 19, 2008, 05:14:38 PM
Wow, that's a great comeback for Hope. I am sure Coach Morehouse had some very "encouraging" words at halftime to spur on the team.

Two things I notice looking at livestats:
1) It'll be great to have Snikkers back (hopefully). Another scoring threat never hurts.
2) Warsen only took three shots. Hopefully the box score later will reveal whether she just did not shoot or whether she her minutes were limited due to the injury she has been nursing.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on January 19, 2008, 11:09:01 PM
Calvin handily beat Kazoo today 79-40 and the Lady Knights appear to have solved their offensive woes. They came up with their second straight dominating performance after a series of games when they struggled to score. They shot 31-60 from the floor, including 7-13 from the arc. Harris led with 19, Partridge had 14 and freshman Kacy Cryderman had her second straight double digit game with 10 in just 16 minutes of play. I think Albion is going to regret not recruiting alum Paul Cryderman's daughter to their school.


Quote from: oldknight on October 30, 2007, 05:24:09 PM

Quote from: sac on October 30, 2007, 03:19:39 PM


Hope is going for its 10th consecutive 20 win season, that would be an outstanding accomplishment.

20 wins is a given. The only question I have is "Can the Lady Dutch win 30?"


Halfway there. :( :'(
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 22, 2008, 12:25:29 AM
Can anyone ever remember a 3 game lead with less than half the conference season gone?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on January 22, 2008, 10:03:15 AM
Nice article in today's Holland Sentinel on the Lady Dutch:

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/stories/012208/localsports_20080122048.shtml
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on January 22, 2008, 08:22:11 PM
Seems a little curious that neither a Hope nor Calvin player has been named MIAA player of the week this year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on January 22, 2008, 09:15:15 PM
Quote from: wizardry on January 22, 2008, 08:22:11 PM
Seems a little curious that neither a Hope nor Calvin player has been named MIAA player of the week this year.

Hope is using an 11, sometimes 12, player rotation and it is hard for any player to accumulate the stats needed to get attention in their system.  This is especially true since he team is very unselfish.

It seems that the PoW is most often the best player on an average team that plays two other average teams that week.  The PoWs have not had outstanding games against the Dutch.

I am surprised that Harris (Calvin) has not received the award at least once
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dumezrules on January 24, 2008, 11:17:42 AM
Quote from: WWWRHH on January 22, 2008, 09:15:15 PM
Quote from: wizardry on January 22, 2008, 08:22:11 PM
Seems a little curious that neither a Hope nor Calvin player has been named MIAA player of the week this year.

Hope is using an 11, sometimes 12, player rotation and it is hard for any player to accumulate the stats needed to get attention in their system.  This is especially true since he team is very unselfish.

It seems that the PoW is most often the best player on an average team that plays two other average teams that week.  The PoWs have not had outstanding games against the Dutch.

I am surprised that Harris (Calvin) has not received the award at least once


I believe that Hope could have every PoW if those girls played at another school....their top ten could all be All-MIAA...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on January 25, 2008, 12:33:14 PM
Quote from: oldknight on January 16, 2008, 04:37:36 PM
Quote from: DCHopeNut on January 16, 2008, 09:25:41 AM
Has there been any word in the Holland Sentinel or the Holland gossip underworld since Sunday on the status of Snikkers?

An X-Ray showed no break and a bone scan also did not detect any fracture but some swelling is still present. The plan is to keep her foot in a boot the rest of this week and then reevaluate it. Apparently the doctor isn't sure what's going on either but if the swelling subsides Snikkers might be back on the court next week.

Its been over a week since I last heard anything about Snikkers. Does anyone have a medical update on her?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on January 25, 2008, 12:54:02 PM
Quote from: DCHopeNut on January 25, 2008, 12:33:14 PM
Quote from: oldknight on January 16, 2008, 04:37:36 PM
Quote from: DCHopeNut on January 16, 2008, 09:25:41 AM
Has there been any word in the Holland Sentinel or the Holland gossip underworld since Sunday on the status of Snikkers?

An X-Ray showed no break and a bone scan also did not detect any fracture but some swelling is still present. The plan is to keep her foot in a boot the rest of this week and then reevaluate it. Apparently the doctor isn't sure what's going on either but if the swelling subsides Snikkers might be back on the court next week.

Its been over a week since I last heard anything about Snikkers. Does anyone have a medical update on her?

The boot was to come off Wednesday. I haven't heard if she returned to practice yet but she did expect to do so.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on January 26, 2008, 12:19:07 PM
they said wed night  maybe 4 more weeks then she will be back
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on January 27, 2008, 06:47:41 AM
nice comeback from being down at halftime nice game and nice win
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on January 27, 2008, 04:21:35 PM
Quote from: hope1 on January 27, 2008, 06:47:41 AM
nice comeback from being down at halftime nice game and nice win

You know the Hope women keep on turning out victory after victory but they keep starting really slow as well. I think they have had way too many games stay close too long recently. I am sure getting Snikkers back in a few weeks should help some but I am worried that Hope may have some trouble down the road when they meet up with stronger teams.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 27, 2008, 05:14:21 PM
Slow starts aren't good, but it's not unusualy for the Dutch.  They have had that same characteristic for several years - including in 05-06 and they did pretty good in the tournament that year.   ;D

*date corrected
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 27, 2008, 05:19:21 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on January 27, 2008, 05:14:21 PM
Slow starts aren't good, but it's not unusualy for the Dtuch.  They have had that same characteristic for several years - including in 05 and they did pretty good in the tournament that year.   ;D

They did even better in 2006.  ;D ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeTV on January 28, 2008, 01:46:53 AM
For all those Snikkers fans out there she will be back this week. Saturday for sure i have from a very very good source...her family. They have been slow lately but they know that when it needs to be turned on it will be.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on January 28, 2008, 09:36:37 AM
Quote from: HopeTV on January 28, 2008, 01:46:53 AM
For all those Snikkers fans out there she will be back this week. Saturday for sure i have from a very very good source...her family. They have been slow lately but they know that when it needs to be turned on it will be.

That'd be great news for Hope and Carrie.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on January 28, 2008, 10:28:30 AM
[
Quote from: DCHopeNut on January 27, 2008, 04:21:35 PM
You know the Hope women keep on turning out victory after victory but they keep starting really slow as well. I think they have had way too many games stay close too long recently. I am sure getting Snikkers back in a few weeks should help some but I am worried that Hope may have some trouble down the road when they meet up with stronger teams.

I don't think the return of Snikkers will have an impact on how the games start.  Having her back will be an over all positive and create additional rotation options, but her injury is not the root cause of the opponents' increased first half increased competitiveness.  She is a good ball player with great talent and huge potential upside, but she is not on the first unit and in the most difficult games (Albion and St. Mary's) the second unit played well in the first half.

Although I doubt Morehouse would accept what I am about to say as an excuse, the recent difficulty may have a lot to do with the challenges of playing these teams a second time.  The first time a team plays the Dutch it is hard for them to be prepared for the speed and pressure defense.  The second time around it is a little easier to prepare a game plan that may - at least for a time - neutralize some of their strengths. 

For the rest of the season the Hope game will be the biggest game of the year for the opponent and they will all be "up" for the game.  In reality it is harder for Hope to approach every game with this level of intensity – but that is what the coaches expect and demand.

The first unit has to be aware of what is happening and adjust.  They certainly have been able to do this as the game proceeds.  At St. Mary's it was very difficult to get the ball into the post the first half.  The Belles size was comparable, they were allowed to be very physical and they packed it inside on defense.  The solution turned out to be Boles and Cowen finding the mark on three pointers which in turn began to open the game up a little bit. 

The second unit may be having a little more success in the first half because they can watch what is happening, make mental adjustments and come into the game fresh and counter the opponents' strategy.

I have to admit that as a fan these slow starts are frustrating.  We would all like to see a 20 point lead at half time.  But I am also impressed that the team keeps their heads, makes the necessary adjustments and comes back to win.

As much as I and others get excited about Hope's post play and depth, we have to remember that everything starts with the guards. On defense they pressure the ball and create turnovers that lead to transition baskets.  The guards handle the ball, and Henderson and Kopke are primarily focused on creating scoring opportunities for the other players.  (I would be more concerned about injuries to either of these two than any other player.) Green can turn a game around with her defense, and Boles and Cowen can alter a game with their outside shooting.  This is a team based program that was very good before the arrival of every player currently on the roster and most likely will continue to be well after the current freshman class graduates.

Finally (sorry for another long post) it is hard to attribute any of the recent "difficulties" to Snikkers' injury.   I have already mentioned the importance of the guards, and the fact that Carrie is on the second rotation.  But the second unit center position has continued to be productive.  Over the last five games Knox has played very good defense, averaged 8.8 points (=Snikkers) and 9.2 rebounds (+3.5).  Which raises the question of what the rotation looks like when Snikkers (statistically the second best rebounder as well as a proven scorer) is healthy.  It is a good problem to have, but I'm sure it is not easy for the coaches to optimally use all of the talent.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on January 28, 2008, 03:46:18 PM
Quote from: WWWRHH on January 28, 2008, 10:28:30 AM

Finally (sorry for another long post) it is hard to attribute any of the recent "difficulties" to Snikkers' injury.   I have already mentioned the importance of the guards, and the fact that Carrie is on the second rotation.  But the second unit center position has continued to be productive.  Over the last five games Knox has played very good defense, averaged 8.8 points (=Snikkers) and 9.2 rebounds (+3.5).  Which raises the question of what the rotation looks like when Snikkers (statistically the second best rebounder as well as a proven scorer) is healthy.  It is a good problem to have, but I'm sure it is not easy for the coaches to optimally use all of the talent.


I agree completely with your thoughts on Carrie's return. I think she helps because you can never have enough talented, tall post players. But she won't change the fact Hope has been starting slowly. And as you said, Knox has played well in her place.

My concern is that one of these games Hope starts slow and can't turn it on in the second half. The Albion game was dangerously close to that scenario and Calvin has been playing much better recently. I think that is a scary game the second time around.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on January 28, 2008, 05:15:02 PM


DC:

You're right.  Albion and St. Mary's are decent, well coached teams, but probably not as good as what the Dutch will face in the tournament - especially if they have to go through DePauw again.  A slow start against a very good team could determine the outcome of the game.

Without a Wednesday game, I am sure practices will be intense this week and everyone will be challenged to step up their game.

I almost feel bad for Kalamazoo since they have to visit DeVoss on Saturday.

On the other hand, I think it is a good game for Snikkers to come back.  She should be able to take her shots and work on her moves without a lot of pressure. 

Her return is important for a reason that I think has been overlooked.  When all three centers are healthy foul trouble is a minor concern - all can play aggressive defense all of the time.  However, with Lange in foul trouble last Saturday, I thought that Knox felt forced to play defense a little more cautiously than usual.  It looked like there were times she would have normally tried to block a shot, but pulled back in order to avoid a possible foul.   At the very least, it has to be in the back of her mind.

When all three are available, foul trouble on one might close off the option of going with the big lineup, but it is a managable situation.  However, when Lange fouled out at Albion with the score close, I think that Knox fouling out or getting injured would have been a big deal given Albion's size. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on January 29, 2008, 08:04:20 PM
1) I don't know if anyone else noticed this, but in the St. Mary's game, a closely contested contest, the reserves played a total of 90 minutes, compared to 110 minutes for the starters, but outscored the starters, 42 - 40.  This was despite the career high of 27 points scored by Boles.

2) For the year the starters have averaged 35.6 points a year, while the reserves have averaged 42.2 points.  Obviously, some of these games were blowouts where the reserves got a lot of playing time, but still these numbers are very impressive.

3) For a team undefeated in the MIAA and ranked # 1 in the nation, it took 11 weeks before one of its players (Boles) was named MIAA player of the week, and then she had to share it with a Tri-State player.  The emphasis for the women's team is TEAM!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on January 30, 2008, 07:08:07 PM
Quote from: AlwaysHope on January 29, 2008, 08:04:20 PM
3) For a team undefeated in the MIAA and ranked # 1 in the nation, it took 11 weeks before one of its players (Boles) was named MIAA player of the week, and then she had to share it with a Tri-State player.  The emphasis for the women's team is TEAM!

No doubt. They really are an impressive group. And some of the other facts you mentioned will have to make the MIAA scared that next year's Hope women may be just as good as this years even with the loss of Boles and Warsen and the other seniors.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 31, 2008, 08:58:16 AM
Quote from: DCHopeNut on January 30, 2008, 07:08:07 PM
Quote from: AlwaysHope on January 29, 2008, 08:04:20 PM
3) For a team undefeated in the MIAA and ranked # 1 in the nation, it took 11 weeks before one of its players (Boles) was named MIAA player of the week, and then she had to share it with a Tri-State player.  The emphasis for the women's team is TEAM!

No doubt. They really are an impressive group. And some of the other facts you mentioned will have to make the MIAA scared that next year's Hope women may be just as good as this years even with the loss of Boles and Warsen and the other seniors.

And Boles performance was strong enough that she made team of the week on this site.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 02, 2008, 11:58:26 AM
It'll be nice to have the Lady Dutch back in action today and reportedly with the return of Snikkers, thereby, increasing the depth of the bench again.

Hopefully, we'll see a nice quick start from the Dutch instead of our recent, typical slow first halves.

If anyone catches this game instead of heading to Albion I'd appreciate a report later.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 02, 2008, 12:18:50 PM
Quote from: DCHopeNut on February 02, 2008, 11:58:26 AM
It'll be nice to have the Lady Dutch back in action today and reportedly with the return of Snikkers, thereby, increasing the depth of the bench again.


I don't believe she is quite ready to play yet today though she may suit up. As I understand it she is likely to see her first game action next week. Up till now--since the boot came off her foot--Snikkers has been limited to doing some low impact conditioning such as running in a pool and biking. I don't think she has even done any practicing with the team other than shooting around. This is a wise move since, with the league regular season crown well in hand, Hope doesn't need to rush her back. I understand that she is more likely to see her first game next week against Tri-State with more significant PT on Saturday against Calvin. Wonderful. :( :'(
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mjfasteenwolf on February 02, 2008, 02:21:06 PM
Quote from: oldknight on February 02, 2008, 12:18:50 PM
Quote from: DCHopeNut on February 02, 2008, 11:58:26 AM
It'll be nice to have the Lady Dutch back in action today and reportedly with the return of Snikkers, thereby, increasing the depth of the bench again.


I don't believe she is quite ready to play yet today though she may suit up. As I understand it she is likely to see her first game action next week. Up till now--since the boot came off her foot--Snikkers has been limited to doing some low impact conditioning such as running in a pool and biking. I don't think she has even done any practicing with the team other than shooting around. This is a wise move since, with the league regular season crown well in hand, Hope doesn't need to rush her back. I understand that she is more likely to see her first game next week against Tri-State with more significant PT on Saturday against Calvin. Wonderful. :( :'(

Unfortunately for you OK, that is the same thing I was thinking. She is going to suit up today, and ease her way back in just in time for the Calvin game. I am sure Calvin is going to show up to play a little better than they did last time, so it is good that Hope has tune up games today and wed, and then with the return of Snikkers next Saturday, they should be ready to handle the laday Knights again.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 02, 2008, 03:29:06 PM
Jordyn Boles has tied the career three point record at Hope (currently tied with Bria Ebels) by hitting two 3s in the first half.

Congrats to Jordyn!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 02, 2008, 09:32:58 PM
Quote from: DCHopeNut on February 02, 2008, 03:29:06 PM
Jordyn Boles has tied the career three point record at Hope (currently tied with Bria Ebels) by hitting two 3s in the first half.

Congrats to Jordyn!

Finishing that thought, she broke the record with 2 more in the second half.

Big pat on the back to the 1010 in attendance today at DeVos, thats a pretty good crowd for such a matchup.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on February 03, 2008, 08:33:03 AM
a big game saturday vs calvin  maybe a big crowd at the devoss  snickers might be back saturday
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: veragrace on February 05, 2008, 02:05:45 PM
This is a great article on Knox and her stellar contribution to the team in Snikkers absence. 

http://hollandsentinel.com/stories/020508/localsports_20080205045.shtml

I like the idea of Courtney and Carrie playing together with Emily at small forward.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on February 05, 2008, 05:46:34 PM
Quote from: veragrace on February 05, 2008, 02:05:45 PM
This is a great article on Knox and her stellar contribution to the team in Snikkers absence. 

http://hollandsentinel.com/stories/020508/localsports_20080205045.shtml

I like the idea of Courtney and Carrie playing together with Emily at small forward.

So Hope's third string center leads the MIAA in rebounds, while playing a lot less minutes than the other rebound leaders!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: MIdoubleA on February 05, 2008, 06:10:46 PM
Quote from: AlwaysHope on February 05, 2008, 05:46:34 PM
Quote from: veragrace on February 05, 2008, 02:05:45 PM
This is a great article on Knox and her stellar contribution to the team in Snikkers absence. 

http://hollandsentinel.com/stories/020508/localsports_20080205045.shtml

I like the idea of Courtney and Carrie playing together with Emily at small forward.

So Hope's third string center leads the MIAA in rebounds, while playing a lot less minutes than the other rebound leaders!

Basically the story of their season.

I love watching the woman play almost as much as I love watching their opponents faces in the second half. By that time, they've figured out that they get no rest whatsoever when Hope's 3rd string comes in. Wave after wave of dutch come in and run the other teams ragged. Mo has done a great job with recruiting and developing lots of good athletes. Now if only someone else we know could do just as good... ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: SKOT on February 06, 2008, 11:00:21 AM
Quote from: veragrace on February 05, 2008, 02:05:45 PM
This is a great article on Knox and her stellar contribution to the team in Snikkers absence. 

http://hollandsentinel.com/stories/020508/localsports_20080205045.shtml

I like the idea of Courtney and Carrie playing together with Emily at small forward.

The article mentions Snikkers having a "bone stress reactor."  Can someone explain what this is.    Did they just mean a stress fracture?  Apparently its so secretive that Google doesn't even know what it is.  The only time those 3 words appear in a row on the internet is on the Sentinel web page. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 06, 2008, 12:59:25 PM
Quote from: SKOT on February 06, 2008, 11:00:21 AM
Quote from: veragrace on February 05, 2008, 02:05:45 PM
This is a great article on Knox and her stellar contribution to the team in Snikkers absence. 

http://hollandsentinel.com/stories/020508/localsports_20080205045.shtml

I like the idea of Courtney and Carrie playing together with Emily at small forward.

The article mentions Snikkers having a "bone stress reactor."  Can someone explain what this is.    Did they just mean a stress fracture?  Apparently its so secretive that Google doesn't even know what it is.  The only time those 3 words appear in a row on the internet is on the Sentinel web page. 

I suspect the Sentinel article means "bone stress reaction" not "reactor." On the gradient scale of least to most serious chronic bone conditions of the foot caused by repetitive use, the labeling goes: bone strain, stress reaction, and stress fracture. These conditions are an overuse injury to any of the many bones of the foot, is exacerbated by regular running on hard surfaces (like a basketball floor) and has been long noticed in soldiers whose training typically involves long marches. The stress fracture is the most serious form of this injury but is a bit of a misnomer since most times there is no actual fracture line even among those diagnosed with this condition. Obviously, there is as much art as science in evaluating the injury and precscribing treatment (rest) and most doctors will be cautious and allow only gradual increases in daily activity in order to avoid a reoccurrence.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mjfasteenwolf on February 06, 2008, 02:56:19 PM
Quote from: veragrace on February 05, 2008, 02:05:45 PM
This is a great article on Knox and her stellar contribution to the team in Snikkers absence. 

http://hollandsentinel.com/stories/020508/localsports_20080205045.shtml

I like the idea of Courtney and Carrie playing together with Emily at small forward.

Thats a great idea, but if you put Emily at the three in the second rotation, that means you are leaving DeKuiper, or Cowen on the bench, which I don't think is something you want to do. I woudl say as they are playing right now, if anything you make Emily the 11th player. You need some sort of perimeter presence on the 2nd string, which as hard as emily might try to do, shes not as strong out there as Miranda and Jenny.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: OC_SID on February 06, 2008, 03:40:27 PM
All women's games for tonight have been postponed until tomorrow at 7:30.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: MIdoubleA on February 07, 2008, 03:29:56 PM
So I made this comment in the men's chat and got karma-kicked out of there.

Was anyone else surprised that Ebels (bria) and Winkle weren't anywhere on the Dream Teams that were posted? I figured for all of their accomplishments and accolades (not to mention their basketball prowess) they would be shoe-ins for honorable mention at the very least?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 07, 2008, 04:26:44 PM
Quote from: MIdoubleA on February 07, 2008, 03:29:56 PM
So I made this comment in the men's chat and got karma-kicked out of there.

Was anyone else surprised that Ebels (bria) and Winkle weren't anywhere on the Dream Teams that were posted? I figured for all of their accomplishments and accolades (not to mention their basketball prowess) they would be shoe-ins for honorable mention at the very least?

Not really, neither Winkle nor Ebels made the D3hoops.com First Team All-American team.  Fouth for Ebels in 06,  5th for Winkle in 06, and 3rd in 07.  There were alot of women ahead of them.  I don't expect any of the men to make it either.

Shame on you for talking women's basketball in the men's room. ::) ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: GoVols on February 07, 2008, 05:01:19 PM
Quote from: MIdoubleA on February 07, 2008, 03:29:56 PM
So I made this comment in the men's chat and got karma-kicked out of there.

Was anyone else surprised that Ebels (bria) and Winkle weren't anywhere on the Dream Teams that were posted? I figured for all of their accomplishments and accolades (not to mention their basketball prowess) they would be shoe-ins for honorable mention at the very least?
If I recall, Bria wasn't named an All-American until AFTER the team won the national championship and the peeps naming the team felt obligated to put one member of the champs on the team. Not that Brian Morehouse would have minded; he stresses the team concept and that's the way they continue to play. That's why it's so hard for other teams to beat them.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 07, 2008, 05:15:17 PM
Our All-American teams are always named before the championship game, actually. But we'd be foolish not to let our in-person observations of the semifinals play a part. Gordon Mann, who along with Mark Simon and I do the bulk of the decision-making on the women's All-American team, covered the DePauw sectional that year and saw Hope play three times before we named our All-Americans.

But the teams are announced in the pregame show and are written in stone at that time.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mjfasteenwolf on February 07, 2008, 10:20:08 PM
Another great 2nd half on the road tonight for the Dutch. If only they could show up for the first half, imagine what the scores would look like. Great to see them shoot 65 percent from the floor in the 2nd half to bury the Thunder. Boles had a gutsy performance, playing quite sick, yet still hit 6-9 from behind the arc. Philly scored 17, and Henderson had 8 assists. Great night for the Dutch, who also got Carrie Snikkers back tonight. Go Hope beat Calvin!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 08, 2008, 01:12:42 AM
Quote from: mjfasteenwolf on February 07, 2008, 10:20:08 PM
Another great 2nd half on the road tonight for the Dutch. If only they could show up for the first half, imagine what the scores would look like. Great to see them shoot 65 percent from the floor in the 2nd half to bury the Thunder. Boles had a gutsy performance, playing quite sick, yet still hit 6-9 from behind the arc. Philly scored 17, and Henderson had 8 assists. Great night for the Dutch, who also got Carrie Snikkers back tonight. Go Hope beat Calvin!

It should be quite obvious Hope just wears teams out.


calvin vs Hope should be a good game Saturday, Calvin has been playing much better as of late.  They've won 5 of 6 and lost at Albion by only 3 after losing to them by 27 earlier this winter. 

Hope is expecting a pretty big crowd for the game Saturday.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 08, 2008, 11:21:15 AM
Hope in Around the Nation:
http://www.d3hoops.com/nation/
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on February 08, 2008, 12:38:34 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 08, 2008, 11:21:15 AM
Hope in Around the Nation:
http://www.d3hoops.com/nation/

Sweet story.  Thanks!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Stinger on February 08, 2008, 12:57:43 PM
Nice props to former Haslett Viking Kaitlyn Kopke.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 08, 2008, 04:25:43 PM
On the side bar to those articles it says..........

.........should Hope's men's and women's basketball teams both be in the Sweet 16 and both in position to host, the women would play on the road. The men's side gets priority for the Sweet 16 and Elite Eight rounds, with the women being granted first dibs on homecourt for the first two rounds.

This is the exact opposite of what I was told just a few days ago.  Can we get clarification on this.

I was told rounds 1 and 2 the men have prioprity in even years, and the women have priority in odd years...........and that switches for the Sectionals.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on February 10, 2008, 08:12:32 AM
good job on a nice game yesterday  it is had to beleive that it is the last regular seasson game  for the hope seniors 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Preto on February 10, 2008, 08:23:24 AM
Quote from: hope1 on February 03, 2008, 08:33:03 AM
a big game saturday vs calvin  maybe a big crowd at the devoss  snickers might be back saturday

Oddly, Calvin has Homecoming with their women on the road in Holland.  They usually travel fairly well to DeVos for this game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope81 on February 10, 2008, 10:17:16 AM
Regarding the hosting question by sac, the men have priority in even years in the first two rounds.  The women have priority in rounds 3 and 4.  This is per the final four tournament director.  Thus, the #1 team in the nation could be sent on the road if the men are chosen to host.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: GoVols on February 10, 2008, 10:44:06 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 08, 2008, 11:21:15 AM
Hope in Around the Nation:
http://www.d3hoops.com/nation/
Funny that Morehouse would say he's coaching "like my hair is on fire" when he did that Matt Lauer thing and kept a short buzz cut to get ready for the impending baldness that's creeping in.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on February 10, 2008, 01:46:34 PM
Quote from: hope81 on February 10, 2008, 10:17:16 AM
Regarding the hosting question by sac, the men have priority in even years in the first two rounds.  The women have priority in rounds 3 and 4.  This is per the final four tournament director.  Thus, the #1 team in the nation could be sent on the road if the men are chosen to host.
On the schedules I recall the women's round 1 being Wednesday and the men's Thursday, with Saturday round 2 games . . . so perhaps only a conflict with round 2? (I'm presuming the NCAA wouldn't consider Saturday afternoon and evening games with separate ticketing.)  Perhaps, though, an undefeated team, if any such is left, might earn a bye for round 1?

And would I be right to think that any team dreaming of being in the Final Four would rather have an opportunity to host rounds 3 and 4 than found 2?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 10, 2008, 04:42:45 PM
From my experience, just getting to host any NCAA tournament game is pretty cool.  It happens so rarely with todays format that you can't be too picky.


But I'll concede, seeing your team celebrate the win to get you to the Final Four at home is much more fun than doing it on the road.  We've been able to do both twice at Hope, with both the men's and women's teams.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 11, 2008, 04:17:36 PM
It was good to see the Dutch starters play very well on Saturday.  As a unit, it might be their best game this year.

Hope's interior defense was also very good as the linked Holland Sentinel article about Lindsay Lange points out.  After being slowed by foul trouble in a couple of games over the past month (including some "mystery" calls) her last two games have been exceptional. 

Lange's  defense on Harris was outstanding.  It looks like Lange has faced Harris enough over the years to have decoded her inside moves.

http://hollandsentinel.com/stories/021108/localsports_20080211032.shtml

Knox seemed to struggle on offense, but also played sound defense.  Snikkers shot timing was off and she did not seem to have all of her mobility back, but did manage to grab a few boards.  Hopefully, all of the "bigs" will have their games come together at the same time as we near the end of the season.

Congrats to MIAA player of the week Philly Greene - she can contributions in so many areas it is sometimes too easy to overlook some of the things she does.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 11, 2008, 05:53:54 PM
Quote from: WWWRHH on February 11, 2008, 04:17:36 PM
It was good to see the Dutch starters play very well on Saturday.  As a unit, it might be their best game this year.


Interesting to read that. I was only able to check the score on Saturday a few times and didn't listen at all so I can't judge at all. Saturday was just Hope's second win by fewer than 10 points. I know Calvin has been playing much better recently but I wonder what others thoughts on the game were. Should a close home game worry us as we head to the MIAA tourney and a likely match up with Albion or Calvin coming. (I mean as much as the #1, undefeated team ought to worry).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 11, 2008, 06:01:17 PM
Calvin hung with Hope in the first half due to a free throw disparity.  However, the Dutch pulled away in the second half and stretched the lead to 20 pts.  It was in the high teens with just a few minutes to go and the Knights hit some 3 point field goals against the freshman to narrow the score in the last 2 mins.

It really was not as close as the final score appeared and the outcome was never in doubt in the second half.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 11, 2008, 06:02:44 PM
Quote from: WWWRHH on February 11, 2008, 06:01:17 PM
Calvin hung with Hope in the first half due to a free throw disparity.  However, the Dutch pulled away in the second half and stretched the lead to 20 pts.  It was in the high teens with just a few minutes to go and the Knights hit some 3 point field goals against the freshman to narrow the score in the last 2 mins.

It really was not as close as the final score appeared and the outcome was never in doubt in the second half.

Thanks for that info. Sadly, one misses those sorts of things when they can only check the score at the end.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 11, 2008, 06:59:49 PM
All MIAA boxscores have running play-by-play.

http://www.miaa.org/wbb/stats/0708/0209calw.htm
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on February 11, 2008, 08:10:09 PM
Quote from: WWWRHH on February 11, 2008, 06:01:17 PM
Calvin hung with Hope in the first half due to a free throw disparity.  However, the Dutch pulled away in the second half and stretched the lead to 20 pts.  It was in the high teens with just a few minutes to go and the Knights hit some 3 point field goals against the freshman to narrow the score in the last 2 mins.

It really was not as close as the final score appeared and the outcome was never in doubt in the second half.

I was at the game, and after Hope went up 21 points with 7 minutes left the game was never in doubt.   Coach Ross commented about Hope's strong defense after his Calvin team scored their first bucket, a trey, with 37 seconds into the game, and did not score another basket until there was 3:50 left in the first half.  So Hope held Calvin scoreless from the floor for almost 16 minutes.  The Knights ended the half with four baskets, but did outscore Hope by 10 points from the free throw line to finish the half down by only 5 points.

For the game Hope's front line held Marcia Harris to only six points, including only one basket (8 shots).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on February 12, 2008, 09:34:54 AM
Congrats to the Dutch for their #1 ranking for this week.  I also noted that Howard Payne picked up a couple of 1st place votes from last week with the Dutch at 15 and HP at 10. All I can say is "Ladies, Keep on keeping on!"  :D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 12, 2008, 06:05:18 PM
Quote from: gohope on February 12, 2008, 09:34:54 AM
Congrats to the Dutch for their #1 ranking for this week.  I also noted that Howard Payne picked up a couple of 1st place votes from last week with the Dutch at 15 and HP at 10. All I can say is "Ladies, Keep on keeping on!"  :D

Interesting to see Hope lose two votes during a week they played so well and beat a good Calvin team. Of course none of it matters, win and in.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 12, 2008, 07:29:31 PM
Quote from: DCHopeNut on February 12, 2008, 06:05:18 PM
Quote from: gohope on February 12, 2008, 09:34:54 AM
Congrats to the Dutch for their #1 ranking for this week.  I also noted that Howard Payne picked up a couple of 1st place votes from last week with the Dutch at 15 and HP at 10. All I can say is "Ladies, Keep on keeping on!"  :D

Interesting to see Hope lose two votes during a week they played so well and beat a good Calvin team. Of course none of it matters, win and in.

Howard Payne has recent victories over tough conference foes Hardin Simmons (16-5) (final four 2006) and ranked McMurry (18 -3) over the past two weeks. 

I hope the lack of comparable competition does not hurt Hope in the tourney.

MIAA is not as tough, although I think Albion is under appreciated.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on February 13, 2008, 10:46:02 AM
Quote from: WWWRHH on February 12, 2008, 07:29:31 PM
Quote from: DCHopeNut on February 12, 2008, 06:05:18 PM
Quote from: gohope on February 12, 2008, 09:34:54 AM
Congrats to the Dutch for their #1 ranking for this week.  I also noted that Howard Payne picked up a couple of 1st place votes from last week with the Dutch at 15 and HP at 10. All I can say is "Ladies, Keep on keeping on!"  :D

Interesting to see Hope lose two votes during a week they played so well and beat a good Calvin team. Of course none of it matters, win and in.

Howard Payne has recent victories over tough conference foes Hardin Simmons (16-5) (final four 2006) and ranked McMurry (18 -3) over the past two weeks. 

I hope the lack of comparable competition does not hurt Hope in the tourney.

MIAA is not as tough, although I think Albion is under appreciated.



Definitely underappreciated.  At 17-4 with 2 of their losses to the #1 team in the nation (one by only 2 points), this team should be getting more than 10 votes in the poll.  I'm not sure how to explain their other two losses, but I'm sure they will meet Hope again in the MIAA tourney, and Hope had better be on their game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 13, 2008, 11:36:10 AM
Quote from: WWWRHH on February 12, 2008, 07:29:31 PM
Quote from: DCHopeNut on February 12, 2008, 06:05:18 PM
Quote from: gohope on February 12, 2008, 09:34:54 AM
Congrats to the Dutch for their #1 ranking for this week.  I also noted that Howard Payne picked up a couple of 1st place votes from last week with the Dutch at 15 and HP at 10. All I can say is "Ladies, Keep on keeping on!"  :D

Interesting to see Hope lose two votes during a week they played so well and beat a good Calvin team. Of course none of it matters, win and in.

Howard Payne has recent victories over tough conference foes Hardin Simmons (16-5) (final four 2006) and ranked McMurry (18 -3) over the past two weeks. 

I hope the lack of comparable competition does not hurt Hope in the tourney.

MIAA is not as tough, although I think Albion is under appreciated.

The numbers (at least Massey's) would say differently.  Massey has Hope's strength of schedule as 67 (out of 432).  Howard Payne is 32 and Thomas Moore (the other unbeaten team) is 96.  Albion is 72.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 13, 2008, 12:12:25 PM
Albion's close away loss to a decent Wartburg team is understandable.

The 19 point loss to Alma three days before their 2 point loss to Hope can only be explaied by the team looking ahead to the Hope game three days later.

I am sure that game was an anomaly, but it may cost the Brits a pool C bid - unless they can get past the Dutch in the conference tourney.  This will be a challenge since Hope will have the home court advantage.  I think Albion deserves a bid, but the MIAA does not typically get two.

The Massey rankings may place Albion's strength of schedule higher than Thomas Moore, but TM is ranked and likely to win their conference and automatically qualify.  Remember, the Massey rankings measure the strength of your opponents. a team  can have a tough schedule and not be ranked if it losses games it shouldn't.
 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 13, 2008, 02:02:11 PM
I don't mean to argue, but the MIAA has gotten two teams into the "big dance" the last 3 years

04/05 - Calvin & Albion

05/06 - Calvin & Hope

06/07 - Calvin & Hope
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 13, 2008, 03:14:30 PM
Great Lakes Region In-Region Record Overall Record
1. Thomas More 18-0 21-0
2. Hope 18-0 20-0
3. DePauw 16-1 19-3
4. Baldwin-Wallace 19-2 19-2
5. Ohio Northern 15-5 16-5
6. Wilmington (Ohio) 14-5 16-5


Awesome, you have got to just love the NCAA
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 13, 2008, 03:17:47 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 13, 2008, 02:02:11 PM
I don't mean to argue, but the MIAA has gotten two teams into the "big dance" the last 3 years

04/05 - Calvin & Albion

05/06 - Calvin & Hope

06/07 - Calvin & Hope

You are right - I forgot about Calvin's bid year before last.

The point I was trying to make was based on Hope's feeling that they needed to win the MIAA tourney to capture a bid last year given their losses to Calvin (2) and Albion.

So in an effort to either clarify my thougths or dig a deeper hole.....

I do not have enough time to research the next statement, so I could be wrong twice in one day (and if so I will try for a third)....but in 2005 didn't Calvin win the MIAA tourney by beating conference champ Albion.  In '06, Calvin's only D3 losses were to Hope, and in '07 Hope won the tourney by beating conference champ Calvin after getting beat by Calvin (2x) and Albion.  In each of the last three years, the MIAA reps were the tourney champ plus the conference champ or a team with losses only to the confernce / tourney champ.

Albion's losses to Wartburg and Alma, in addtion to the losses to Hope, complicates the selection process (assuming Hope wins the final three games).  They are a very good team, but their best chance for a bid is to capture the conference tourney.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on February 13, 2008, 05:04:02 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 13, 2008, 11:36:10 AM
Quote from: WWWRHH on February 12, 2008, 07:29:31 PM
Quote from: DCHopeNut on February 12, 2008, 06:05:18 PM
Quote from: gohope on February 12, 2008, 09:34:54 AM
Congrats to the Dutch for their #1 ranking for this week.  I also noted that Howard Payne picked up a couple of 1st place votes from last week with the Dutch at 15 and HP at 10. All I can say is "Ladies, Keep on keeping on!"  :D

Interesting to see Hope lose two votes during a week they played so well and beat a good Calvin team. Of course none of it matters, win and in.

Howard Payne has recent victories over tough conference foes Hardin Simmons (16-5) (final four 2006) and ranked McMurry (18 -3) over the past two weeks. 

I hope the lack of comparable competition does not hurt Hope in the tourney.

MIAA is not as tough, although I think Albion is under appreciated.

The numbers (at least Massey's) would say differently.  Massey has Hope's strength of schedule as 67 (out of 432).  Howard Payne is 32 and Thomas Moore (the other unbeaten team) is 96.  Albion is 72.

Now I definitely think that Albion is underappreciated.  This week only a max of 10 pollsters showed enough appreciation for a team rated higher than Thomas Moore by Massey to put them in the top 25.  And if any of those who did include Albion ranked them higher than 25, even fewer pollsters showed them any appreciation.  But then...there are probably other conferences with teams that are underappreciated in the opinion polls, so good for Albion that they got 10 votes!   ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mjfasteenwolf on February 13, 2008, 10:10:09 PM
Another solid road win for the Lady Dutch tonight. Knox came up big off the bench again, and Boles, Henderson, and Greene all had 10 pts and 3 or more assists. Solid game, slow start, but once again taking a 20 point lead in the 2nd half.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on February 13, 2008, 10:40:07 PM
Aaauuuuggggghhhh!!  :-\

Too much work today. I couldn't go to a game tonight and wasn't near a computer to check things out either.  But a quick glance at the stats, I see that Lindsay Lange got a technical!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Lindsay ????  Anyone know what happened??  ???
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 13, 2008, 10:47:23 PM
Hope was just better than Olivet, plain and simple.  Hope got outrebounded, struggled from the line, only shot 36% in the second half and won by 21.  Olivet just couldn't find enough first half defense to keep pace.

Both teams traded runs of 6-10 points in the first half with Hope getting the last one to lead by 10, but the Dutch led all the way.  In the second coach Mo went to the zone, and Olivet found it really hard to get the easier baskets they were able to create in the first half.  Hope was able to isolate Knox down low some in the second, she was the most impressive Dutch tonight.

I've seen Hope play with more energy and enthusiasm, they just seemed a little lacking in that department,  or maybe it was just the cold hearted stare of a team that knows they will win the battle eventually.  They do play with an impressive demeanor.

I've always been sitting up in the cushy seats at DeVos to watch the ladies and you really need to be down low to understand just how much bigger and stronger the Hope women are.   Hope was very physical and Olivet didn't like that much, but they can be.......its just wave after wave of 6-1, 6-2, 6-3 coming at you.  Every pass is met with a defender quickly, just not much space to operate out there for the opposition.   I'll also add, Hope has some pretty clever basketball players.

Hope quietly clinched at least a piece of the MIAA title tonight, which is now their 3rd in 4 years and 7th in 9.  Saturday they'll go for the outright title in front of the home fans.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 13, 2008, 10:50:17 PM
Quote from: gohope on February 13, 2008, 10:40:07 PM
Aaauuuuggggghhhh!!  :-\

Too much work today. I couldn't go to a game tonight and wasn't near a computer to check things out either.  But a quick glance at the stats, I see that Lindsay Lange got a technical!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Lindsay ????  Anyone know what happened??  ???

Worst technical foul ever..............hard foul underneath by Olivet, Lange turned and pushed the ball into the side of her opponent with both hands on the ball.  Never said a word, ball never left her hands.  That was it.............I believe the ref was trying to see more than was there.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on February 13, 2008, 10:52:49 PM
Quote from: mjfasteenwolf on February 13, 2008, 10:10:09 PM
Another solid road win for the Lady Dutch tonight. Knox came up big off the bench again, and Boles, Henderson, and Greene all had 10 pts and 3 or more assists. Solid game, slow start, but once again taking a 20 point lead in the 2nd half.

"Knox came up big" is almost an understatement.  She leads the Flying Dutch with 11 rebounds (5 more than Greene) and 11 points in only 14 minutes of playing time!  WOW!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 14, 2008, 03:35:02 PM
Just for the fun of it, I looked at poitns and rebounding for the Dutch , and calculated what they would be averaging in 40 minutes of playing time.  Knox would be at 19.7 points and 19.4 rebounds.  Snickers would be at 20.4 points and 13.8 rebounds. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mjfasteenwolf on February 14, 2008, 05:03:26 PM
What are the odds, if any of Hope hosting the first round of the NCAA. They are ranked 2nd in the region right now behind Thomas Moore, but if they would move into 1st, and Hopes men had to travel, would the Dutch have a chance at hosting? Someone with more knowledge on this topic please fill me in.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 14, 2008, 05:20:15 PM
Yes -- remember there are essentially two regionals for each of the eight regions so two teams in the GL rankings could easily host on the first weekend.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on February 15, 2008, 06:41:48 AM
that would be nice  i hope a lot of fans show up saturday it is the seniors last regular seasson home game saturday
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on February 15, 2008, 11:49:52 AM
Quote from: hope1 on February 15, 2008, 06:41:48 AM
that would be nice  i hope a lot of fans show up saturday it is the seniors last regular seasson home game saturday

This weekend is a men's/women's double-header.  With this being the last home game for the women, I would expect it to be parents' day, possibly also for the men.  Either way, if you have general admission seats, you may want to get there early.

Women's JV:         1pm
Women's Varsity: 3pm
Men's JV:              5:15pm
Men'sVarsity:        7:30pm

In the past these have been a one ticket for all games affair.  No reason for me to think otherwise this time around.  Also, the women will be observing the WCBA's Think Pink program to raise awareness about breast cancer, so wear pink if ya got it!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 16, 2008, 12:24:19 PM
Hope is honoring its 4 Sr's today, and if they aren't.........at least I am, and wow what Seniors.

Jordyn Boles, Julie Henderson, Stacey Warsen and Lindsay Lange.

These four ladies have combined to play 401 games and have started 319 of them.

They've accumulated a record of 101-9, including 56-5 in MIAA play.  3 MIAA Championships, 2 MIAA Tournament Championships, 2008 will be their 3rd NCAA appearance, and of course were part of the 2006 National Championship team.


Some notable records..............
Jordyn Boles is already the schools all-time leading 3 point shooter, and she will likely finish as one of the top 5 scorers in school history.  She will also finish in the top 10 in assists and will likely finish #2 in games played behind teamate Julie Henderson.

Julie Henderson will likely finish as the all-time leader in games played, and needs just 6 steals to become Hope's all-time leader.

For four years now, Boles and Henderson have started every game for the Flying Dutch, and for all but 1 game in the last 3 years, Boles, Henderson and Warsen have started every game.

Well done ladies.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 16, 2008, 03:57:41 PM
Livestats is stuck for the women's game

its Hope 50 Adrian 34 at the half

FINAL  Hope 88 Adrian 65
http://www.miaa.org/wbb/stats/0708/0216adrw.htm

double/double for Snikkers in 14 minutes of action.  :o
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Oval on February 16, 2008, 10:53:48 PM
Hope 88, Adrian 65
Albion 71, Alma 53
Saint Mary's 71, Kalamazoo 39
Calvin 71, Olivet 69 ... whoa
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 17, 2008, 05:07:05 PM
Dutch posters have been pretty quite considering "our" team wrapped up the conference champoionship and home court advantage for the MIAA tournament.

Although expected, it was a dominating performance and an important milestone!  I found it encouraging that so many players played well, and the second unit had a couple of great sets after what I thought were a couple of games where they were not as effective on offense as the starting group.  Yesterday the six second rotation players scored a combined 46 points.

Another very encouraging sign was the performance of the big players.  They all had good days at the same time.  Knox and Snikkers both scored 10, Lange 8.  The forwards were also solid  with Warsen chipping in 7 and O'hare 4.  If the third unit which played the last ten mins. is considered, the 4 scored by both Kutney and Bruinsma, brings the 4/5 position scoring to 47 points.  Adrian had a little size on the roster, but their posts were not as fast or strong.

It looked like Knox and Snikkers are beginning to figure out how to play together and work off the others game.  They played two complete rotations together (Knox missed some minutes late in the first half due to picking up her second foul) and in those 10 mins outscored Adrian by 26 points and controlled the paint.  Good post players seem to be a rare commodity in D3, and if all can continue to play well it will give the Dutch a big advantage in the post-season.

It might be good to face Albion and St. Mary's in the confernence tourney since their inside game will provide the Dutch the biggest challenge.

Congratulations to Hope's swim teams for great conference meets.  The men finished #1 and the women #2.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 17, 2008, 09:16:08 PM
Quote from: WWWRHH on February 17, 2008, 05:07:05 PM
Dutch posters have been pretty quite considering "our" team wrapped up the conference champoionship and home court advantage for the MIAA tournament.


While every game matters dare I suggest that at this point the "regular season" seems rather mundane and more of a chore than anything. An undefeated season is great but the real excitement now is waiting for the MIAA tourney.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on February 18, 2008, 06:52:36 AM
yes got my tickets for the girls game next week tuesday night
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on February 19, 2008, 10:53:13 AM
Hope's seniors have had quite an impressive college hoops career, as we all know.  The Holland Sentinel highlights them in an article in today's issue:

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/stories/021908/localsports_20080219055.shtml

I think the most amazing thing listed in the article is the fact that the team has won 6 more games this year than anyone else realizes.  "The Flying Dutch are 28-0 this season, giving the seniors a 102-9 record during their careers."  Who knew?   :D

Maybe if those were in-region games against quality opponents, they could move up to #1 in the regional rankings.   ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 19, 2008, 01:25:20 PM
Quote from: golfniz1 on February 18, 2008, 06:14:51 PM
ME TOO, BUT MINE ARE FOR THE ASC TOURNAMENT MY TEAM IS UNDEFEATED THIS YEAR TOO SURE WOULD BE NICE TO SEE THESE 2 TEAMS PLAY HOPE VS HPU WHAT A GOOD GAME IT WOULD BE.

From what I read, it looks like it would be an exciting game.

However, we should not get ahead of ourselves.  Both HPU and Hope have to get through their own conference tourney where they will face at least one, and maybe two, tough opponents that would like nothing more than to avenge regular season losses and gain the AQ.

Plus each team would probably have to win 4 games before any face off and Hope has always tough DePauw and Thomas More, another undefeated team, in its region. 

Speaking of which, it does not appear the Presidents Athletic Conference has a board on this site.  Does anyone know anything about Thomas More? Based on their roster and stats it looks like they have some size on the bench, but rely on a 6'0 and a couple of 5'11" players for most of the mins in the post.  Although they go 8 or 9 deep, their mins are not spread around like Hope's, but few teams use as many players as Morehouse does - especially in the 4 and 5 positions.

The basketball will get more exciting, but a lot more nerve wrecking beginning next week.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 19, 2008, 01:28:31 PM
Would it surprise anyone to see a 1st and 2nd round pod of  Hope, Thomas More, DePauw and Whitewater.  ::)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on February 19, 2008, 02:21:40 PM
Quote from: sac on February 19, 2008, 01:28:31 PM
Would it surprise anyone to see a 1st and 2nd round pod of  Hope, Thomas More, DePauw and Whitewater.  ::)

Surprise, no.  Dismay, yes...quite.  I think Pat addressed this thought earlier, though, by pointing out that the Great Lakes Region typically hosts 2 pods of 1st and 2nd round games, and the NCAA would likely split Thomas More and Hope.
Title: mocking hope1
Post by: golfniz1 on February 19, 2008, 11:07:47 PM
to hopeconvert I was mocking no one I was mearly saying that a game between Your #! vs hpu would be a good game to watch.  If what I said was taken out of context then I do appologize to hope1, but that was all I was suggesting.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 20, 2008, 09:08:56 AM
Quote from: golfniz1 on February 19, 2008, 11:07:47 PM
to hopeconvert I was mocking no one I was mearly saying that a game between Your #! vs hpu would be a good game to watch.  If what I said was taken out of context then I do appologize to hope1, but that was all I was suggesting.

golfniz1

Evidently someone felt you were mocking the Dutch's enthusiastic fan base.  However, I read the ASC board and know that HPU's fans are at least as exuberant as we are, so I take you at face value.

I have "intruded" on your board with my own posting and was lucky not to be taken out of context.

Good luck - maybe we will have the opportunity to trade observations over the next few weeks.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on February 20, 2008, 09:20:57 AM
Quote from: golfniz1 on February 19, 2008, 11:07:47 PM
to hopeconvert I was mocking no one I was mearly saying that a game between Your #! vs hpu would be a good game to watch.  If what I said was taken out of context then I do appologize to hope1, but that was all I was suggesting.
I apologize for the mistake.

Good luck to your team (until they meet the Dutch, that is).

EDIT: *Changed subject line*
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 20, 2008, 03:32:36 PM
No change to the women's poll

http://www.ncaasports.com/basketball/womens/polls/rankings/diviii
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mjfasteenwolf on February 20, 2008, 07:33:05 PM
Another blowout win for the Flying Dutch is happening right now. They are leading 85-42 with a few minutes to play. Kzoo kept it close up until 13-10 but after that it was all Hope. Every player scored at least 2 points except for Henderson but she had 7 assists and no turnovers. Sounds like they are playing well, looking to get ready for Alma on Saturday, and then the MIAA tourney. Congrats to the Dutch, and keep on winning!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on February 20, 2008, 07:41:41 PM
As long as the Dutch go deep this year w/ those numbers Julie should break the assist record.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 21, 2008, 01:49:52 AM
The leader in minutes played for Hope last night was Cowen.......16  :o

14 ladies logged at least 10 mintues, a 15th logged 9 minutes..........and a starter only logged 6.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on February 21, 2008, 10:06:57 AM
Not surprised to see Philana Greene sharing the lead with 10 pts, but her co-leader--Megan Mejeur--is a pleasant surprise.  10 pts on 3-5 shooting, 4-4 from the line, 2 rebs, 1 steal, and only 1 t.o. while commiting no fouls in 10 min. off the bench.  Nice game!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on February 21, 2008, 11:36:23 AM
This sounds like a stuck record (or CD), but Hope's starters last night scored 28 points and the reserves scored 63 points of the 91 total points!

For the year (through last night), the starters are averaging 36.9 points per game, while the bench is scoring 42.1 points!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mjfasteenwolf on February 21, 2008, 12:27:24 PM
Quote from: AlwaysHope on February 21, 2008, 11:36:23 AM
This sounds like a stuck record (or CD), but Hope's starters last night scored 28 points and the reserves scored 63 points of the 91 total points!

For the year (through last night), the starters are averaging 36.9 points per game, while the bench is scoring 42.1 points!

I hope that you are not trying to rip on the starters for anything. Of course the reserves are going to score more points than the starters when you get at least 12-13 deep in every game, and usually 15-16 deep. Also in games when they are scoring 80-90 points against teams like KZOO, the reserves are playing way more minutes than the starters, against teams that are easy to score on.

I just don't think its fair to compare the two or three different strings of players on Hope's team. They all do something well, I think the second string can score as well as the first, and are a little quicker sometimes, but the first string plays great defense. Also the players coming off the bench are usually facing a team that is more worn out, since the starters face the fresh players at the beginning of each half. All in all, lets not compare them to each other, they are all playing well, and as a team, try not to bring anything up that makes people compare themselves to their teammates.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Civic Minded on February 21, 2008, 12:36:41 PM
Quote from: mjfasteenwolf on February 21, 2008, 12:27:24 PM
Quote from: AlwaysHope on February 21, 2008, 11:36:23 AM
This sounds like a stuck record (or CD), but Hope's starters last night scored 28 points and the reserves scored 63 points of the 91 total points!

For the year (through last night), the starters are averaging 36.9 points per game, while the bench is scoring 42.1 points!

I hope that you are not trying to rip on the starters for anything. Of course the reserves are going to score more points than the starters when you get at least 12-13 deep in every game, and usually 15-16 deep. Also in games when they are scoring 80-90 points against teams like KZOO, the reserves are playing way more minutes than the starters, against teams that are easy to score on.

I just don't think its fair to compare the two or three different strings of players on Hope's team. They all do something well, I think the second string can score as well as the first, and are a little quicker sometimes, but the first string plays great defense. Also the players coming off the bench are usually facing a team that is more worn out, since the starters face the fresh players at the beginning of each half. All in all, lets not compare them to each other, they are all playing well, and as a team, try not to bring anything up that makes people compare themselves to their teammates.

I didn't read AH's post that way at all.  I believe he is just pointing to the "embarassment of riches" this Hope team possesses, and that this team is strong enough that it's possible for the 2nd and 3rd units to get lots of minutes and thereby score lots of points.  (But if his point is what you're suggesting, I'd have to agree with your thoughts...)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mjfasteenwolf on February 21, 2008, 12:51:58 PM
Quote from: Civic Minded on February 21, 2008, 12:36:41 PM
Quote from: mjfasteenwolf on February 21, 2008, 12:27:24 PM
Quote from: AlwaysHope on February 21, 2008, 11:36:23 AM
This sounds like a stuck record (or CD), but Hope's starters last night scored 28 points and the reserves scored 63 points of the 91 total points!

For the year (through last night), the starters are averaging 36.9 points per game, while the bench is scoring 42.1 points!

I hope that you are not trying to rip on the starters for anything. Of course the reserves are going to score more points than the starters when you get at least 12-13 deep in every game, and usually 15-16 deep. Also in games when they are scoring 80-90 points against teams like KZOO, the reserves are playing way more minutes than the starters, against teams that are easy to score on.

I just don't think its fair to compare the two or three different strings of players on Hope's team. They all do something well, I think the second string can score as well as the first, and are a little quicker sometimes, but the first string plays great defense. Also the players coming off the bench are usually facing a team that is more worn out, since the starters face the fresh players at the beginning of each half. All in all, lets not compare them to each other, they are all playing well, and as a team, try not to bring anything up that makes people compare themselves to their teammates.

I didn't read AH's post that way at all.  I believe he is just pointing to the "embarassment of riches" this Hope team possesses, and that this team is strong enough that it's possible for the 2nd and 3rd units to get lots of minutes and thereby score lots of points.  (But if his point is what you're suggesting, I'd have to agree with your thoughts...)

Well I agree with you as well, and AH if that it what he is saying, they do possess unbelievable depth.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 21, 2008, 03:29:20 PM
Hope's distribution of playing time is uncoventional. I was reading the CCIW page yesterday and noticed that IWU played the starters most of the minutes in a blowout of Elmhurst.  A check of the box score showed the starters averaged 28.4 mins., with the next four averaging 12 mins.  One of the posters noted that as the tournament approaches, teams need to shorten the bench to prepare those that are going to play in the post season.  In most situations that makes sense.

Morehouse has not chosen to take that route.  Even in the closest games 11 or 12 players will see the court and there is not a huge spread in mins. played.  We continue to see rotating 4/5 combinations.  I think this works for the Dutch because:

   They are deep and there is not much talent difference between the first and second lines,

   In a typical week, the biggest challenge the Dutch face is scrimmage at practice, and

   Various combinations can be used to counter different situations.

I am sure every player would enjoy more minutes, but this approach keeps fresh players in the game.  It also helps develop players for next year and the year after.  It looks like the high level of involvement keeps the team spirit alive and everyone pulling together.

To echo earlier comments....while the second line is fast and can put a lot of points on the board at times, the first unit players are generally better individual defenders and play very good team defense.  The second line also benefits from playing against tiring opponents and the opportunity to observe the other coaches game plan.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on February 21, 2008, 03:38:32 PM
Quote from: Civic Minded on February 21, 2008, 12:36:41 PM
Quote from: mjfasteenwolf on February 21, 2008, 12:27:24 PM
Quote from: AlwaysHope on February 21, 2008, 11:36:23 AM
This sounds like a stuck record (or CD), but Hope's starters last night scored 28 points and the reserves scored 63 points of the 91 total points!

For the year (through last night), the starters are averaging 36.9 points per game, while the bench is scoring 42.1 points!

I hope that you are not trying to rip on the starters for anything. Of course the reserves are going to score more points than the starters when you get at least 12-13 deep in every game, and usually 15-16 deep. Also in games when they are scoring 80-90 points against teams like KZOO, the reserves are playing way more minutes than the starters, against teams that are easy to score on.

I just don't think its fair to compare the two or three different strings of players on Hope's team. They all do something well, I think the second string can score as well as the first, and are a little quicker sometimes, but the first string plays great defense. Also the players coming off the bench are usually facing a team that is more worn out, since the starters face the fresh players at the beginning of each half. All in all, lets not compare them to each other, they are all playing well, and as a team, try not to bring anything up that makes people compare themselves to their teammates.

I didn't read AH's post that way at all.  I believe he is just pointing to the "embarassment of riches" this Hope team possesses, and that this team is strong enough that it's possible for the 2nd and 3rd units to get lots of minutes and thereby score lots of points.  (But if his point is what you're suggesting, I'd have to agree with your thoughts...)

Civic minded, my point precisely.  I don't recall seeing a team with that much depth.  Unlike the Hope men's team that, in Van Wiren's words, "relies on the seniors," and specifically the starters, this team relies on both the starters and the "non-starters" (probably a better word than reserves).

For example, in the Hope-Calvin game last night, where Hope led 50-22 at half, and wound up winning 76 - 59, the starters scored all but 10 points.  

In fact, my favorite player to watch is Philly Greene.  I just love the defensive pressure she puts on the ball handlers.  I also agree with your assessment that the starters are incredible on defense; the Calvin coach made a similiar remark after the last game.

In summary, I cannot recall any team that has such "abundance" that they lose little or nothing when the starters sit.  Specifically, I cannot recall situations where the bench of a team gets so much playing time that it is outscoring the starters for the year, or last night where the bench out-scored the other team, 63 to 53.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 21, 2008, 05:09:15 PM
Big kudos to the women's team for hustling back to Holland to catch the second half of the men's game.

Although time studies might suggest no showers were involved. :-\ :D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 21, 2008, 05:23:33 PM
Average Minutes Per Game:

First Line:   18.3

Second Line:    16.7

Third Line:    5

*Maybe not exact since some simplifying assumptions had to be made to account for the 6 player (and sometime 7 or 8)rotation on the second line, but still an indication of how minutes are spread around.  If someone had not seen the Dutch play they might guess that this was a version of the Grinnell system - which it definitely is not.

Quote from: sac on February 21, 2008, 05:09:15 PM
Big kudos to the women's team for hustling back to Holland to catch the second half of the men's game.

Although time studies might suggest no showers were involved. :-\ :D

At least no one was on the court long enough last night to make showers absoultely, positively necessary  ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: womens fan on February 21, 2008, 06:26:05 PM
This discussion has prompted me to make my first post here.

I have watched the women play, and would like to add a few things.

I agree it is probably not in the team's best interest to be comparing the different groups, and I think there are reason's we are seeing a difference in scoring.

As stated, the starters are playing against another teams fresh starters.

The others players are coming in against either a slightly tired group, or the other teams second string. To Hope's credit, they have a far deeper bench, and it is no wonder that they are superior to many other teams second unit.

In several of the games this year, the third unit has been playing with about 10 minutes left in the game. The second unit is used to give them a break. At this point, the opponent has got to be getting frustrated with Hope's relentless play, and very tired.

In my opinion, the biggest reason is the difference in style of play. The starting unit for Hope, plays a methodical, half court offense, using a good deal of the shot clock. They are forcing the opponent to expend energy playing defense. The second unit plays an up tempo, fast break style of basketball. Because of the fast break, and pushing the ball, they are able to have more possesions, in the same minutes played. It leads to a greater opportunity to score. An up tempo, fast break style against an opponent that has been playing a great deal of defense can't be a fun thing for the other team.

I agree that the first unit plays great team defense, and they are fantastic at holding teams down. Often we watch the ball pressure defense, and see some frustrated opposing guards. Let's not forget, that they are being backed up by off the ball defense that is preventing any type of pass, and totally distrubting the other team's offense.

All in all, I believe that the combination of the different styles of Hope basketball has lead to great success for the program. Morehouse has used the talent he has to the team's advantage. It may not lead to the stats needed to create All-Americans, but I have a feeling that they are more interested in team success....

Go Hope.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on February 21, 2008, 11:09:58 PM
This post is going to appear in both the men's and women's site because... one of highlights of this season for me regarding both Hope teams is that neither team is dependant on one player. It has truly been a team effort. Historically the teams have turned to player "A" during those tight, tense moments and in the past you can just hear the words from people who are thinking, "Give it to "Player A", give it to "Player A." But this year, player "A" could be any starter or someone from the "Second wave." People have alluded to this thought in earlier posts, but it was once again apparent yesterday as I watched the ladies play against "K".  Coach Morehouse commented that this game was the best 40 minutes played by the "entire" team - which includes all "Three waves!" Reading the reports from the men's game, and looking at the stats, not as many players played in the game, but one of the bright spots of the evening was Brandon Bosch, a player who has been giving his all during the season, patiently waiting for his chance to help out the team. And yesterday, he did just that. So as the saying goes, there's no "I" in the word "Team!"
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 22, 2008, 10:25:08 AM
Quote from: womens fan on February 21, 2008, 06:26:05 PM
This discussion has prompted me to make my first post here.

I have watched the women play, and would like to add a few things.

I agree it is probably not in the team's best interest to be comparing the different groups, and I think there are reason's we are seeing a difference in scoring.

As stated, the starters are playing against another teams fresh starters.

The others players are coming in against either a slightly tired group, or the other teams second string. To Hope's credit, they have a far deeper bench, and it is no wonder that they are superior to many other teams second unit.

In several of the games this year, the third unit has been playing with about 10 minutes left in the game. The second unit is used to give them a break. At this point, the opponent has got to be getting frustrated with Hope's relentless play, and very tired.

In my opinion, the biggest reason is the difference in style of play. The starting unit for Hope, plays a methodical, half court offense, using a good deal of the shot clock. They are forcing the opponent to expend energy playing defense. The second unit plays an up tempo, fast break style of basketball. Because of the fast break, and pushing the ball, they are able to have more possesions, in the same minutes played. It leads to a greater opportunity to score. An up tempo, fast break style against an opponent that has been playing a great deal of defense can't be a fun thing for the other team.

I agree that the first unit plays great team defense, and they are fantastic at holding teams down. Often we watch the ball pressure defense, and see some frustrated opposing guards. Let's not forget, that they are being backed up by off the ball defense that is preventing any type of pass, and totally distrubting the other team's offense.

All in all, I believe that the combination of the different styles of Hope basketball has lead to great success for the program. Morehouse has used the talent he has to the team's advantage. It may not lead to the stats needed to create All-Americans, but I have a feeling that they are more interested in team success....

Go Hope.

wf - welcome to the board, and a great first post!

I believe there is an additional benefit from what you describe, and that is the difficulty other teams have in preparing for Hope.  In most cases, as you prepare to play against another team, you figure out how to defend against their style of play.  How do you do that against Hope, a team that's style of play might be considered "schizophrenic" (sorry, I just had to use that word).  As a game progresses, your team may start to adapt to how Hope is playing, and then suddenly they are a different team.  Morehouse mixing up players (not sticking to a strict 5 in / 5 out substitution pattern) creates even more varieties in the style of play.   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: MIdoubleA on February 22, 2008, 10:43:51 AM
I love reading this board because I love watching the women's team play.

I think you've hit the nail on the head in regards to Mo's success with different play styles. Try defending Lange in the post on the first rotation, Snikkers in the post and out on the arc in the second, then Knox in the post in the third rotation. What a handful! Can you imagine what teams must be thinking?

I'm guessing that by now the ladies team is having some serious psychological advantage over their adversaries. How do you even prepare for a team like that?

Which brings me to my suggested topic: how do you stop them?

I am guessing it's going to take some terrible off-night shooting and maybe a coaching mistake (?) for the women to lose. I just can't think of another way you can stop them. What are your thoughts?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 22, 2008, 11:09:54 AM
I think some Hope fans are forgetting a game,...... they aren't unbeatable just undefeated.

http://www.miaa.org/wbb/stats/0708/w119hoab.htm
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: MIdoubleA on February 22, 2008, 11:47:32 AM
Quote from: sac on February 22, 2008, 11:09:54 AM
I think some Hope fans are forgetting a game,...... they aren't unbeatable just undefeated.

http://www.miaa.org/wbb/stats/0708/w119hoab.htm

I've hardly forget about the scare. I was more or less alluding to; what happened? How did Albion almost beat them? What did they do that nobody else has done?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on February 22, 2008, 12:11:37 PM
Quote from: sac on February 22, 2008, 11:09:54 AM
I think some Hope fans are forgetting a game,...... they aren't unbeatable just undefeated.

http://www.miaa.org/wbb/stats/0708/w119hoab.htm

Who knows what happened in the first half of that game, but 8-24 and 2-3 vs. 14-28 and 3-4 will do that to you. They showed the hearts of champions by playing their game in the second half, on a nice steady pace  with average shooting and great D to come back.

No doubt they can be beat, and their biggest challenge after the MIAA tournament may be getting through their region, but opponents will have to play their absolute best and Hope will have to be "off" like that first half of that game for them to lose.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on February 22, 2008, 12:17:08 PM
Quote from: MIdoubleA on February 22, 2008, 11:47:32 AM
How did Albion almost beat them? What did they do that nobody else has done?

Someone there would know better as it is hard to tell from the box or play by play, but on the surface, Albion was Hot and Hope was not. Maybe Albion pressured more of Hope's shots in the first half... And maybe Mo wasn't prepared (I doubt that) for what Albion first threw at him???

Obviously Hope's D tightened up in the second half and the O loosened up... Most importantly they fought through the deficit and battled back.

A loss that day, while possibly changing the polls, would have inspired them the same way. I think they learned a lot from that game...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mjfasteenwolf on February 22, 2008, 12:33:50 PM
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on February 22, 2008, 12:17:08 PM
Quote from: MIdoubleA on February 22, 2008, 11:47:32 AM
How did Albion almost beat them? What did they do that nobody else has done?

Someone there would know better as it is hard to tell from the box or play by play, but on the surface, Albion was Hot and Hope was not. Maybe Albion pressured more of Hope's shots in the first half... And maybe Mo wasn't prepared (I doubt that) for what Albion first threw at him???

Obviously Hope's D tightened up in the second half and the O loosened up... Most importantly they fought through the deficit and battled back.

A loss that day, while possibly changing the polls, would have inspired them the same way. I think they learned a lot from that game...

I was at the game so I will provide a few of my insights. Hope struggled immensly (sp) in the first half. Tried to force a lot of passes into the post which Albion was all over. Dekuiper and Cowen came in and opened it up with some perimeter jumpers which seemed to help out the inside game a lot. Also Albion was hitting everything in the first half, and nothign would fall for Hope, a lot of balls that rimmed out.
In the 2nd half, Jordyn Boles caught fire after having an awful first half. Hope just kept clawing back into it and started getting to every lose ball. Mo then turned up the pressure on Albions guards by playing some full court press, which led to a few turnovers, and really threw Albions set offense off since they were not getting into their offense until there was less than 20 seconds left on the shot clock.
Hope kept playing hard, dealt with a really annoying shot clock issue, and battled past some missed free throws to pull it out.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 22, 2008, 12:35:25 PM
It is important to remember a few things about Albion:  they are a very good team, their post players are tall and  may be the most comprable to Hope's in terms of effectiveness that the Dutch have encountered this year, and they are always extremely tough at home.

And then there were a few things that put Hope in a tough situation that day.  Carrie Snikkers was out with an injury, Stacy Warsen (1 rbd / 2 pts) was still suffering from her ankle injury (no more tubing for a while) and Lange was in foul trouble much of the time and eventually fouled out.  Due to the injuries and fouls Hope never was able to really go big.   

The Brits had been beat by Alma three days before and a victory would have put them back in the NCAA tourney chase.  Albion came out hot and shot 50% the first half and the Dutch were down quickly, but like NW Hope Fan said they showed a lot of heart that day. 

The Dutch will probably meet the Britons next Saturday and I expect that Albion will be fired up.  Their season will be on the line.  But this time Warsen is healthy, Snikkers is back and the Dutch are at home.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on February 22, 2008, 12:51:08 PM
WWWRHH:  nice summation to put that game into perspective.  I remembered Snikkers' injury, but forgot about Warsen's, and didn't realize Lange fouled out.  (I suppose a quick look at the box score would have revealed that.  ;)  ).  That many woes for Hope's post position probably won't converge in one game again, and as has been mentioned, the rest of the team worked it out just fine by the final buzzer.  Other teams should not weigh that game too heavily when they prepare to face Hope, other than to take into account the kind of adversity they faced and still came out victorious.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on February 22, 2008, 02:56:35 PM
Quote from: MIdoubleA on February 22, 2008, 10:43:51 AM

I think you've hit the nail on the head in regards to Mo's success with different play styles. Try defending Lange in the post on the first rotation, Snikkers in the post and out on the arc in the second, then Knox in the post in the third rotation. What a handful! Can you imagine what teams must be thinking?


And what's even more fun, Coach Mo has been playing both Snikkers AND Knox together in the "2nd Wave" rotation!!  Many coaches at that point are looking for the white flag to wave!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 22, 2008, 11:10:12 PM
I think a MIAA championship game against either Albion or Calvin would prove a nice challenge for Hope. However, the fact Albion or Calvin would likely have to play the other one the day before would create a serious issue.

I have to say while I am rooting for a perfect season from Hope I certainly would like to see Albion sneak into the NCAA tourney as a Pool C. I really think they are team capable of making a serious run in the tourney if they can just get in.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on February 24, 2008, 05:11:50 PM
I was not at the Hope women's game on Sat., so my remarks are based on looking at the boxscore and reading various accounts of the game.

Did anyone notice Carrie Snickers' performance?  Offensively she was only 1 for 6 from the field, for a total of 2 points.  But in only 14 minutes of playing time she lead all players with 10 rebounds.  Even more amazing is that of the 13 blocks by both teams in the game, she had seven, or just over half; so her blocks exceeded the sum of all the other players!  I would suspect that she also altered or discouraged a few shots near the basket in her limited playing time.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 25, 2008, 02:00:41 PM
Snkkers did a great job on defense even though her offense has not really found its rhythm since her return from injury.  However, she worked hard and kept her head in the game.  The Dutch defensive scheme is relatively complicated vs. the straight up man-to-man played at the high school level and it looks like she is beginning to get comfortable with both playing the help side and trusting her team mates to back her up.

Carrie was not the only post to squeeze some stats into a few minutes.  Lange scored 7 pts and had 8 rbds. in 14 minutes and Knox had 9 rbds., 13 pts. and a block in 11 minutes.  So the 3 big players combined for 27 rbds., 22 pts., and 8 blks in only 39 minutes.  It will be interesting to see how Morehouse uses them when the games get tighter. 

Moving on to another position, it is amazing how quickly Boles can rack up the points when she gets hot.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Preto on February 25, 2008, 09:34:28 PM
Heard today if one of Tuesday's games are postponed, all will be postponed to double headers on Wednesday.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 25, 2008, 11:44:19 PM
Quote from: Preto on February 25, 2008, 09:34:28 PM
Heard today if one of Tuesday's games are postponed, all will be postponed to double headers on Wednesday.

I'm kind of doubting St. Mary's can pull off a men's/women's double header.   I'm more confident in Hope, Albion and Calvin.

TSU over Kzoo tonight 80-70 so TSU travels to Hope.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 26, 2008, 09:40:53 AM
Quote from: sac on February 25, 2008, 11:44:19 PM
Quote from: Preto on February 25, 2008, 09:34:28 PM
Heard today if one of Tuesday's games are postponed, all will be postponed to double headers on Wednesday.

I'm kind of doubting St. Mary's can pull off a men's/women's double header. 

Sure - some MIAA men's team vs Notre Dame - sounds like fun - although CM might be conflicted about it   ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on February 26, 2008, 10:07:52 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 26, 2008, 09:40:53 AM
Quote from: sac on February 25, 2008, 11:44:19 PM
Quote from: Preto on February 25, 2008, 09:34:28 PM
Heard today if one of Tuesday's games are postponed, all will be postponed to double headers on Wednesday.

I'm kind of doubting St. Mary's can pull off a men's/women's double header. 

Sure - some MIAA men's team vs Notre Dame - sounds like fun - although CM might be conflicted about it   ;)


I think that would be a GREAT test just to see where CM's true colors really lie!!!   ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 26, 2008, 11:21:27 AM
Nice article in the Holland Sentinel about Hope's guards strong defensive play.  In his blog, Dan D'Addona also discusses the importance of the guards defense in creating the transition offense that distinguishes the Dutch from most women's teams.

http://hollandsentinel.com/stories/022608/localsports_20080226038.shtml

http://blogs.hollandsentinel.com/dan/

Perhaps Hope's slow starts are the result of figuring out the opponents tendencies, then breaking them down defensively in order to play the game on the Dutch's terms.  Few teams will have the staminia to stay with Hope for forty minutes. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mjfasteenwolf on February 26, 2008, 12:21:10 PM
Quote from: WWWRHH on February 26, 2008, 11:21:27 AM
Nice article in the Holland Sentinel about Hope's guards strong defensive play.  In his blog, Dan D'Addona also discusses the importance of the guards defense in creating the transition offense that distinguishes the Dutch from most women's teams.

http://hollandsentinel.com/stories/022608/localsports_20080226038.shtml

http://blogs.hollandsentinel.com/dan/

Perhaps Hope's slow starts are the result of figuring out the opponents tendencies, then breaking them down defensively in order to play the game on the Dutch's terms.  Few teams will have the staminia to stay with Hope for forty minutes. 

Thanks for the links, it is nice to see someone is noticing the intense defense that Hopes guards play. Their defense makes it almost impossible for opposing guards to get comfortable.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Civic Minded on February 26, 2008, 03:44:36 PM
Quote from: gohope on February 26, 2008, 10:07:52 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 26, 2008, 09:40:53 AM
Quote from: sac on February 25, 2008, 11:44:19 PM
Quote from: Preto on February 25, 2008, 09:34:28 PM
Heard today if one of Tuesday's games are postponed, all will be postponed to double headers on Wednesday.

I'm kind of doubting St. Mary's can pull off a men's/women's double header. 

Sure - some MIAA men's team vs Notre Dame - sounds like fun - although CM might be conflicted about it   ;)


I think that would be a GREAT test just to see where CM's true colors really lie!!!   ;)

Oh, c'mon, y'all!   Orange and Blue trumps all, including FDF if push comes to shove! ;D ;) :o 8)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Civic Minded on February 26, 2008, 03:45:21 PM
Isn't it game time yet?!?   ???  :P
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 26, 2008, 04:15:56 PM
Quote from: Civic Minded on February 26, 2008, 03:44:36 PM
Quote from: gohope on February 26, 2008, 10:07:52 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 26, 2008, 09:40:53 AM
Quote from: sac on February 25, 2008, 11:44:19 PM
Quote from: Preto on February 25, 2008, 09:34:28 PM
Heard today if one of Tuesday's games are postponed, all will be postponed to double headers on Wednesday.

I'm kind of doubting St. Mary's can pull off a men's/women's double header. 

Sure - some MIAA men's team vs Notre Dame - sounds like fun - although CM might be conflicted about it   ;)


I think that would be a GREAT test just to see where CM's true colors really lie!!!   ;)

Oh, c'mon, y'all!   Orange and Blue trumps all, including FDF if push comes to shove! ;D ;) :o 8)
Say what?    :P
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 26, 2008, 04:19:12 PM
Looking forward to tonight's game.  We saw the second half of the Tri-State / Albion game on Saturday, and despite their small size, I was impressed with the way the Lady Thunder battled inside and just never went away.  Albion put on several second half runs, but TSU always responded to keep it a 5-7 point game until very late.  Here's HOPEing nobody is looking ahead - althought this Hope team has shown they're pretty good at being focused.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on February 26, 2008, 04:31:32 PM
yes tri state  played pretty good saturday  but still hope schould beat them by maybe 20 or 30  points i think i hope a good crowd tonight
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 26, 2008, 08:34:17 PM
A couple interesting games tonight

Albion and Alma are within 2 points 5 min in the 2nd

Adrian is handling Calvin by 13

Hope starting to pull away from TSU


All the miaa games here.......
http://www.olivetcollege.edu/athletics/miaa/wbb/0226.HTM
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 26, 2008, 08:37:40 PM
A little background on the Adrian/Calvin game

Adrian 61 Calvin 54 at Adrian
Calvin 65 Adrian 64 at Calvin
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 26, 2008, 09:02:59 PM
Adrian beats Calvin 59-58. A disappointing season for the Knights ends early on a sour note.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 26, 2008, 09:04:24 PM

Adrian survives 8:13 of scoreless basketball to win by 1 after leading 59-46.  Great comeback by Calvin.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 26, 2008, 09:09:20 PM
Lindsey Lange 2 points, Julie Henderson 0 points, Stacey Warsen doesn't play..........Hope wins by 29
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Civic Minded on February 26, 2008, 10:28:27 PM
Quote from: sac on February 26, 2008, 09:09:20 PM
Lindsey Lange 2 points, Julie Henderson 0 points, Stacey Warsen doesn't play..........Hope wins by 29

And the first half was just as ugly as it seemed.  Hope was out rebounded by 3State in the first half, yet easily wins the rebounding battle overall.  Let's hope the  tourney jitters were dispelled with this one.

On a lighter note, the 3 pt. shooting responsibilities were shared nicely throughout the team -- and every one of them was a beauty.  Free throw shooting; not so much.  :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: GoVols on February 26, 2008, 11:13:01 PM
T-State pretty much denied Lange the ball and when she did shoot, she shot badly. Thunder forced Hope to beat 'em with the 3 and they did, tying a tournament record with 12 in, I believe, 23 attempts. Nice percentage, but tournament record is 1.000 — a 1-for-1. There's gotta be a minimum to make that stat legit.
Oh, Warsen out with the flu. Hope it doesn't spread, though Hope played the first half like they were all ill.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: MIdoubleA on February 27, 2008, 09:21:44 AM
A frightening trend I noticed when Hope plays poorly is that of their field goal percentage on "easy shots" - put backs, layups, etc. For whatever reason, these types of shots tend to fly way over the hoop, clang off the rim, or hit the backboard so hard they bounce past the basket. I've only noticed this in person, as the stats probably mask this type of behavior; poor % = +rebounds.

Hopefully they correct this before they get into games that really truly matter...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 27, 2008, 11:14:26 AM
Quote from: DCHopeNut on February 26, 2008, 09:02:59 PM
Adrian beats Calvin 59-58. A disappointing season for the Knights ends early on a sour note.
Unfortunately sad, but true.  Some times you just don't get the ball to bounce right for you. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mjfasteenwolf on February 27, 2008, 12:38:11 PM
Quote from: WWWRHH on February 25, 2008, 02:00:41 PM


Moving on to another position, it is amazing how quickly Boles can rack up the points when she gets hot.

We saw this again last night, I didn't realize she had 14 in the first half until I heard it announced during halftime. The team looked OK, still dominant, but still room for improvement. Would be nice to have Snikkers get her touch back, and to get Warsen healthy.
Tomorrow against St. Mary's should be a good game, hopefully they keep it close for a while, then Hope call blow them out as well. Depends a lot on how well Henderson/Cowen, and whoever else guards Kesslar tomorrow can do on her. With hopes D I am not too worried about her taking over the game. Should be great, HOPE to see the Dutch playing for the tourney title on Saturday.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 27, 2008, 02:28:41 PM
New rankings........

Great Lakes Region
1.  Thomas More  20-0  25-0
2.  DePauw  19-1  22-3
3.  Hope  22-0  24-0 
4.  Baldwin-Wallace  23-2  23-2
5.  Wilmington (Ohio)  17-6  19-6
6.  Ohio Northern  18-6  19-6

This is just an absolute joke
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 27, 2008, 03:01:52 PM
What an absolute pile of crap!  Wait, that's actually the definition in Websters if you look up NCAA .
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 27, 2008, 03:04:52 PM
Wow, just amazing. And with our luck someone will think those four teams should be a first weekend pod.  >:(
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 27, 2008, 03:27:52 PM
It wouldn't surprise me if this is an effort to ensure that the NCAA has a "reason" for Hope to not host the first round.  Maybe we'll get to go back to our favorite place - DePauw
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 27, 2008, 03:35:42 PM
It looks to me, the women's committee's are heavily emphasizing OWP.

They certainly didn't compare scores against regionally ranked teams or use records vs common opponents.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on February 27, 2008, 03:36:47 PM
i hope not  they played a pretty good game lst night on saint marys game thuresday night  go  hope
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on February 28, 2008, 06:16:10 AM
it schould be a good  game tonight and i turn 40 today   lets hope a lot of fan"s show up and root the girls on
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on February 28, 2008, 09:41:44 AM
Quote from: hope1 on February 28, 2008, 06:16:10 AM
it schould be a good  game tonight and i turn 40 today   lets hope a lot of fan"s show up and root the girls on

Happy birthday, hope1!  Here's HOPE-ing the Flying Dutch provide an exciting win to make your day complete.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 28, 2008, 09:52:19 AM
Happy Birthday hope1 8)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Civic Minded on February 28, 2008, 10:07:15 AM
Quote from: sac on February 28, 2008, 09:52:19 AM
Happy Birthday hope1 8)

Here, Here!  Happy Birthday, hope1!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mjfasteenwolf on February 28, 2008, 04:55:23 PM
Warsen out again tonight for the Dutch, lets HOPE O'Hare can step it up again. St Mary's should be a decent test. but should be another victory, go Flying Dutch.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 28, 2008, 07:44:50 PM
Another slow start for the Lady Dutch. ??? :(

I certainly disagree with the GL Rankings but I really am afraid that despite an amazing record and outstanding talent this Hope team is prone to being upset early in the NCAA tourney particularly if they are faced with a strong team. I realize the results of this season don't support that but I just don't have a sinking feeling about the future.

(I realize Hope can still go on to win this game by 30).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 28, 2008, 08:49:31 PM
Interesting night for Carrie Snikkers to get her first career start.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 28, 2008, 09:14:57 PM
Hope and Albion win tonight.

Hope ends up winning by about 25 (I can't recall right now) like I expected but there is still something about this team that worries me.

Saturday ought to be a great game and a good test for Hope.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: OC_SID on February 28, 2008, 09:35:07 PM
Albion and Hope both win by 17, and almost identical scores. The Britons score one more and give up one more than the Flying Dutch.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on February 28, 2008, 09:38:25 PM
Actually, the difference is 17 points.  Albion wins, 83-66, while Hope is victorious, 82-65.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 28, 2008, 09:39:26 PM
Quote from: OC_SID on February 28, 2008, 09:35:07 PM
Albion and Hope both win by 15, and almost identical scores. The Britons score one more and give up one more than the Flying Dutch.

Quote from: AlwaysHope on February 28, 2008, 09:38:25 PM
Actually, the difference is 17 points.  Albion wins, 83-66, while Hope is victorious, 82-65.

.......and Hope's biggest lead was 29, Albion 19
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on February 29, 2008, 06:30:24 AM
it schould be a good game saturday  vs albion  maybe stacy will play saturday she said she is going to try it would help a lot
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mjfasteenwolf on February 29, 2008, 07:32:14 AM
Quote from: DCHopeNut on February 28, 2008, 07:44:50 PM
Another slow start for the Lady Dutch. ??? :(

I certainly disagree with the GL Rankings but I really am afraid that despite an amazing record and outstanding talent this Hope team is prone to being upset early in the NCAA tourney particularly if they are faced with a strong team. I realize the results of this season don't support that but I just don't have a sinking feeling about the future.

(I realize Hope can still go on to win this game by 30).

Come on DCH, you are one of the people I can always count on for 100 percent optimism about Hope.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 29, 2008, 01:29:02 PM
Just in case anyone missed it

http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2008/02/27/Women%27s+finals+appear+headed+for+sellout/2002
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 01, 2008, 09:46:15 AM
Quote from: DCHopeNut on February 28, 2008, 07:44:50 PM
Another slow start for the Lady Dutch. ??? :(

I certainly disagree with the GL Rankings but I really am afraid that despite an amazing record and outstanding talent this Hope team is prone to being upset early in the NCAA tourney particularly if they are faced with a strong team. I realize the results of this season don't support that but I just don't have a sinking feeling about the future.

(I realize Hope can still go on to win this game by 30).

DCHN:  I'm mystified by your over-the-top worry wartism. With that kind of attitude I would guess you were a 1L. One of the hardest things for a basketball team to do is consistently defeat conference foes by double digit margins--something Hope has done all year. Every coach in the MIAA knew Hope was loaded this year and opposing coaches tried every trick they knew to keep games close. Nothing worked all year except for the one close game at Albion. That's an amazing achievement because it would have been easy for Hope to get bored with the competition--or lack thereof--and lose some intensity.

While recognizing the possibility of an upset, I think Hope is as sure a bet as there is in college basketball to get into the Final Four. In three weeks, Hope will hoist a championship trophy over their heads on their own floor.


On a side note, I was at the boys district final last night between Unity Christian and Zeeland East. In the final minute of a very close game, Tom Snikkers went to the stripe to shoot two pressure packed free throws when the Zeeland students began chanting "Sis-ter's bet-ter." I looked across the way to see Carrie chuckling to herself. Brother calmly buried two free throws. The chanting stopped.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on March 01, 2008, 12:25:24 PM
OK: great story. I see you're spending your time these days of the distaff side. We miss your leavening influence across the aisle!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 01, 2008, 12:27:11 PM
Quote from: oldknight on March 01, 2008, 09:46:15 AM
..........Zeeland students began chanting "Sis-ter's bet-ter." I looked across the way to see Carrie chuckling to herself. Brother calmly buried two free throws. The chanting stopped.

Sooooo.............is she?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 01, 2008, 12:44:25 PM
Quote from: sac on March 01, 2008, 12:27:11 PM
Quote from: oldknight on March 01, 2008, 09:46:15 AM
..........Zeeland students began chanting "Sis-ter's bet-ter." I looked across the way to see Carrie chuckling to herself. Brother calmly buried two free throws. The chanting stopped.

Sooooo.............is she?

Depends on who you ask. Sister thought so; Brother just gave me that dismissive "You can't be serious" laugh.

Tom is a very talented player and in a game featuring two outstanding Class B teams, he was the best player on the floor last night.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 01, 2008, 12:49:19 PM
Quote from: oldknight on March 01, 2008, 12:44:25 PM
Quote from: sac on March 01, 2008, 12:27:11 PM
Quote from: oldknight on March 01, 2008, 09:46:15 AM
..........Zeeland students began chanting "Sis-ter's bet-ter." I looked across the way to see Carrie chuckling to herself. Brother calmly buried two free throws. The chanting stopped.

Sooooo.............is she?

Depends on who you ask. Sister thought so; Brother just gave me that dismissive "You can't be serious" laugh.

Tom is a very talented player and in a game featuring two outstanding Class B teams, he was the best player on the floor last night.

Was it really dismissive, or was more of a macho she's never beaten me one on one.......as far as you know and I'm not telling. :D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mjfasteenwolf on March 01, 2008, 01:52:02 PM
Quote from: sac on March 01, 2008, 12:49:19 PM
Quote from: oldknight on March 01, 2008, 12:44:25 PM
Quote from: sac on March 01, 2008, 12:27:11 PM
Quote from: oldknight on March 01, 2008, 09:46:15 AM
..........Zeeland students began chanting "Sis-ter's bet-ter." I looked across the way to see Carrie chuckling to herself. Brother calmly buried two free throws. The chanting stopped.

Sooooo.............is she?

Depends on who you ask. Sister thought so; Brother just gave me that dismissive "You can't be serious" laugh.

Tom is a very talented player and in a game featuring two outstanding Class B teams, he was the best player on the floor last night.

Was it really dismissive, or was more of a macho she's never beaten me one on one.......as far as you know and I'm not telling. :D

They're both great players on great teams, I'd have to give the edge to Carrie right now, until Tom can win more than a conference championship. Speaking of Carrie, getting another start today in place of Warsen who should see limited action. HOPEfully Carrie can take advantage of the situation. Albion should be a good test today, but I see the Dutch pulling out another double digit victory at home today.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: SKOT on March 01, 2008, 04:02:07 PM
I didn't realize you could get a fuzzy connection with internet radio... This is going to drive me crazy

/insert picture of person pulling their hair out from the MIAA men's board here!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: SKOT on March 01, 2008, 07:19:58 PM
Congrats to the Hope women on a perfect regular season (and conference tourney!) 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 02, 2008, 03:43:18 AM
Really solid game from Hope today, they only needed one 3 to beat Albion.   The difference in 3 point shooting 1 to 7 was a large reason for the 11 point margin.  Hope  really dominated them inside.  Lots of good interior passing from a number of ladies, and some key defensive plays at the right moments.

Albion played hard and well for most of the game, never quit.  Second time I've seen them and they sure seem like an NCAA team to me, I hope they get invited.

Nice of Albion to stay and be recognized by another great DeVos women's crowd and stick around for the trophy presentation, they deserved the ovation.  If only the other MIAA runner-up had done the same.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 02, 2008, 12:03:21 PM
Quote from: sac on March 02, 2008, 03:43:18 AM
If only the other MIAA runner-up had done the same.

No??!! Really???  :o
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 02, 2008, 09:40:44 PM
No Albion women in the tournament. :'(
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 02, 2008, 09:47:20 PM
That's a real shame.  I'm sure the lady Brits could have challenged a fair number of the teams that make the tournament.  3 of their 5 losses were to Hope - I thought that might have been enough to get them in.  First time since 04 that the MIAA only gets one women's team in.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on March 03, 2008, 09:28:09 AM
I think that's what happens when you get too formulaic with your decision-making. Perhaps that's a result of having 400+ schools to deal with, but I would think that if more human judgment had been brought into play, Albion would have received a fairer shake.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: OC_SID on March 03, 2008, 09:32:04 AM
Hope women travel to play at Baldwin-Wallace against Juniata.  ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 03, 2008, 09:33:48 AM
Nobody better tell sac where the Hope women have to play this week. :-X

Whoops, OC_SID just violated the rule.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 03, 2008, 09:34:47 AM
Beats the heck out of going to DePauw
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on March 03, 2008, 09:48:43 AM
Quote from: oldknight on March 03, 2008, 09:33:48 AM
Nobody better tell sac where the Hope women have to play this week. :-X

Whoops, OC_SID just violated the rule.

Especially if you see who they might be facing in the second round.  :P
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on March 03, 2008, 09:49:57 AM
And a potential regional final against Howard Payne. A tough bracket - but I think the women are up to it.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: OC_SID on March 03, 2008, 09:58:27 AM
Quote from: oldknight on March 03, 2008, 09:33:48 AM
Nobody better tell sac where the Hope women have to play this week. :-X

Whoops, OC_SID just violated the rule.

SAC has given me permission to say "Baldwin-Wallace."
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 03, 2008, 10:01:15 AM
Based on the bracket, it appears Hope is a #2 seed, and B-W is hosting because the Hope men will be hosting so the women can't.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Stinger on March 03, 2008, 10:01:53 AM
Albion had to be one of the last teams not to be selected.  That's too bad. I really didn't think there was any question.  I thought Coach Carden did an excellent job this year.   Perhaps the loss at Alma brought them down just enough.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on March 03, 2008, 10:06:36 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 03, 2008, 10:01:15 AM
Based on the bracket, it appears Hope is a #2 seed, and B-W is hosting because the Hope men will be hosting so the women can't.

Perhaps. It could have been done that way for geographical purposes. It's a way of keeping the TX schools (Trinity and McMurry also) all close to each other.

I also took the fact that BW is hosting to be an indication that the men will get the first weekend.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: SKOT on March 03, 2008, 11:18:12 AM
Is it just me, or wouldn't it have made sense to announce the mens bracket first this year (and the women first next year) because the men get home scheduling preference this year? 

The comities had to have already made some decisions about both brackets to announce the women. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 03, 2008, 11:54:41 AM
Here's a quick comparison of the Hope women vs Juniata



Offense     % 2pt   % 3pt      % FT
Hope     47.6   32.7      74.2
Juniata     47.8   30      70.8
            
Defense     % 2pt   % 3pt     
Hope     35.1   27.7     
Juniata     42.5   26.5     
            
Rebounding     Team   Opp      Margin
Hope     46.4   37      9.4
Juniata     37.8   34.9      2.9
            
Scoring     Team   Opp      Margin
Hope     78.5   56      22.5
Juniata     64.8   60.5      4.3
            
3 point shooting     Attempts   Made      Made/game
Hope     388   127      4.7
Juniata     394   118      4.4
            
Blocks     Total   per game     
Hope     177   6.6     
Juniata     67   2.5     
            
Steals     Total   per game     
Hope     401   14.9     
Juniata     266   9.9     
            
Turnovers     Total    per game     
Hope     493   18.3     
Juniata     573   21.2     
            
Assists     Total   per game     
Hope     439   16.3     
Juniata     362   13.4     
            
Assist/Turnover             
Hope     0.89        
Juniata     0.63        
            
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: MIdoubleA on March 03, 2008, 11:57:45 AM
Quote from: SKOT on March 03, 2008, 11:18:12 AM
Is it just me, or wouldn't it have made sense to announce the mens bracket first this year (and the women first next year) because the men get home scheduling preference this year? 

The comities had to have already made some decisions about both brackets to announce the women. 

Agreed.

It is my understanding that if the Hope women win their first two games, they'll have home court advantage til it's over or they lose - correct?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: OC_SID on March 03, 2008, 12:14:43 PM
Quote from: MIdoubleA on March 03, 2008, 11:57:45 AM
Quote from: SKOT on March 03, 2008, 11:18:12 AM
Is it just me, or wouldn't it have made sense to announce the mens bracket first this year (and the women first next year) because the men get home scheduling preference this year? 

The comities had to have already made some decisions about both brackets to announce the women. 

Agreed.

It is my understanding that if the Hope women win their first two games, they'll have home court advantage til it's over or they lose - correct?

Not necessarily ... any of the four remaining teams could host the sectional.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 03, 2008, 12:20:34 PM
I wonder if Mo would like some eyes at UPS??? Not sure if I could get a hall pass to do that and I wonder how much it would help...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 03, 2008, 02:21:29 PM
This bracket suggests a sectional at Howard Payne.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on March 03, 2008, 02:22:19 PM
SKOT thanks for the background stats on Juniata.

We can never take an opponent lghtly, especially at this stage of the season.

However, Pool B must have been pretty thin for Juniata to get a bid.  They barely got past Adrian by 4 points, and lost to teams with records of  20-6, 13-12, 21-6, 7-18, and 16-10.  

I know the "black box" criteria made it hard for the MIAA to get two teams in this year, but I have no doubt that Albion deserved a bid.  The Brits showed a lot of heart and class on Saturday and certainly won my admiration with their never quit attitude.  Hope could not have asked for better preparation for the tournament than to face Albion in the final game.   Good luck numbers 10, 23, 33, 34, 45 - you have a lot to be proud of.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: monsoon on March 03, 2008, 04:33:36 PM
Quote from: sac on March 03, 2008, 02:21:29 PM
This bracket suggests a sectional at Howard Payne.

Agreed - at least two teams will have to fly in the next round anyway; so send them south.  Howard Payne seems to be the #1 seed in this part (if not the entire) bracket.  Mo has shown he can get the ladies ready to play tough teams on the road (see '06).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on March 03, 2008, 07:58:10 PM
Jordyn Boles and Phily Greene got 1st team honors for the 2008 All-MIAA team.

Lindsay Lange gets 2nd team honors, while Julie Henderson is Defensive Player of the year.

Congratulations to these Hope players and all the other players who received MIAA honors.

Go to www.miaa.org website for the complete list of both men's and women's teams.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 03, 2008, 08:31:11 PM
Hope and Juniata have one common opponent

Juniata 63 Adrian 59

Hope 75 Adrian 54
Hope 88 Adrian 65

As you might expect, Hope will have a decided height advantage.
http://www.juniata.edu/athletics/wbasketball/roster.html

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on March 03, 2008, 09:10:40 PM
Quote from: sac on March 03, 2008, 08:31:11 PM
Hope and Juniata have one common opponent

Juniata 63 Adrian 59

Hope 75 Adrian 54
Hope 88 Adrian 65

As you might expect, Hope will have a decided height advantage.
http://www.juniata.edu/athletics/wbasketball/roster.html



According to the school's website this is their 2nd NCAA appearance.  The first one was in 1986, when they lost in the first round, but then won the next day for third place in their region.

They were a Pool B berth, which is reserved for schools from conferences that do not have automatic bids (in this case the Landmark Conference), or schools that are independent and do not belong to a conference.  Only 3 schools got Pool B bids.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mjfasteenwolf on March 04, 2008, 10:51:51 AM
Quote from: AlwaysHope on March 03, 2008, 07:58:10 PM
Jordyn Boles and Phily Greene got 1st team honors for the 2008 All-MIAA team.

Lindsay Lange gets 2nd team honors, while Julie Henderson is Defensive Player of the year.

Congratulations to these Hope players and all the other players who received MIAA honors.

Go to www.miaa.org website for the complete list of both men's and women's teams.

Congrats to those girls, all of those honors are well deserved, I especially respect Hope womens players who can make that big of an impression while only getting 20 minutes a game.

Can't wait to see how the Flying Dutch do in the tournament, they have some questions to answer, but are well loaded for along tourney run. Go Dutch.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 04, 2008, 12:19:09 PM
good luck  hope  girls hope you come back with 2 wins this week
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 05, 2008, 10:49:01 AM
The current poll on the d3hoops front page asks which of the 3 unbeaten teams will be the first to go home.  Hope is leading in this poll, with 41.7% (at the time of this post) of those polled thinking they will be first to lose.  My first reaction was one of ire.  But, you know what?  That's the same opinion othershad of Hope 2 years ago at the final four.  We all know the results, and I think that speaks well of how Hope handles themselves when others believe them to be the underdog.

I still have confidence in them.  If other teams want to doubt them, fine.  Let them.  Come into the game overconfident and we'll see how Hope picks them apart.

Go Hope!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Civic Minded on March 05, 2008, 10:57:13 AM
FDF and I are driving to Ohio Friday to watch the women, then back home for Saturday's men's game.  Anyone else making the trip to Berea?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 05, 2008, 11:33:36 AM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on March 05, 2008, 10:49:01 AM
The current poll on the d3hoops front page asks which of the 3 unbeaten teams will be the first to go home.  Hope is leading in this poll, with 41.7% (at the time of this post) of those polled thinking they will be first to lose.  My first reaction was one of ire.  But, you know what?  That's the same opinion othershad of Hope 2 years ago at the final four.  We all know the results, and I think that speaks well of how Hope handles themselves when others believe them to be the underdog.

I still have confidence in them.  If other teams want to doubt them, fine.  Let them.  Come into the game overconfident and we'll see how Hope picks them apart.

Go Hope!!!

I voted and the average came down to 30...........so not many votes?  Keep hatin', thats all I have to say.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 05, 2008, 11:36:23 AM
Quote from: Civic Minded on March 05, 2008, 10:57:13 AM
FDF and I are driving to Ohio Friday to watch the women, then back home for Saturday's men's game.  Anyone else making the trip to Berea?

I'll be there.

Sort of a spiritual journey, ya know, visit those who have wronged you in the past.  Try and bring closure, that kind of thing. ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 05, 2008, 12:12:35 PM
i am trying to make it if not the radio will do
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Civic Minded on March 05, 2008, 12:14:14 PM
Quote from: sac on March 05, 2008, 11:36:23 AM
Quote from: Civic Minded on March 05, 2008, 10:57:13 AM
FDF and I are driving to Ohio Friday to watch the women, then back home for Saturday's men's game.  Anyone else making the trip to Berea?

I'll be there.

Sort of a spiritual journey, ya know, visit those who have wronged you in the past.  Try and bring closure, that kind of thing. ;)

Should I bring extra little pills? :D  And if I do, can I take your picture by "the" sign?   ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 05, 2008, 12:41:15 PM
I'm thinking maybe light a candle and leave it in front of the Bald-Wally statue (if there even is one), maybe on the the steps of the gym.  Something like that.

We'll see about any photography.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AndersDY on March 05, 2008, 12:54:16 PM
Quote from: sac on March 03, 2008, 08:31:11 PM

As you might expect, Hope will have a decided height advantage.
http://www.juniata.edu/athletics/wbasketball/roster.html


Does that even need to be said? Is there any team in D3 who matches Hope in terms of height? An ironic twist given the men's team is currently quite smallish.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 05, 2008, 01:11:55 PM
Women's preview

http://www.d3hoops.com/women-final-four/08/preview.htm
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on March 05, 2008, 02:07:31 PM
Quote from: AndersDY on March 05, 2008, 12:54:16 PM
Quote from: sac on March 03, 2008, 08:31:11 PM

As you might expect, Hope will have a decided height advantage.
http://www.juniata.edu/athletics/wbasketball/roster.html


Does that even need to be said? Is there any team in D3 who matches Hope in terms of height? An ironic twist given the men's team is currently quite smallish.

It will be interesting to see what type of line up Morehouse goes with Friday.  Will he stay big and attack the middle, or increase Warsen's and O'Hare's (I know she is 6 ft. tall) minutes to match up with the opponent's smaller and presumably quick players? He started O'Hare against Tri-State, but went with Snikkers against St. Mary's and Albion.

Of course, one of Hope's advantages is to show multiple looks by mixing up player combinations.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on March 05, 2008, 02:25:06 PM
Quote from: WWWRHH on March 05, 2008, 02:07:31 PM
Quote from: AndersDY on March 05, 2008, 12:54:16 PM
Quote from: sac on March 03, 2008, 08:31:11 PM

As you might expect, Hope will have a decided height advantage.
http://www.juniata.edu/athletics/wbasketball/roster.html


Does that even need to be said? Is there any team in D3 who matches Hope in terms of height? An ironic twist given the men's team is currently quite smallish.

It will be interesting to see what type of line up Morehouse goes with Friday.  Will he stay big and attack the middle, or increase Warsen's and O'Hare's (I know she is 6 ft. tall) minutes to match up with the opponent's smaller and presumably quick players? He started O'Hare against Tri-State, but went with Snikkers against St. Mary's and Albion.

Of course, one of Hope's advantages is to show multiple looks by mixing up player combinations.


I'm pretty sure he went with a special line-up against St. Mary's and Albion because Warsen had been fighting the flu.  I love it though when he plays "book ends" against the other teams!!!  (Lange and Snikkers/Knox and O'Hare).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: OC_SID on March 05, 2008, 04:47:30 PM
Quote from: Civic Minded on March 05, 2008, 12:14:14 PM
Quote from: sac on March 05, 2008, 11:36:23 AM
Quote from: Civic Minded on March 05, 2008, 10:57:13 AM
FDF and I are driving to Ohio Friday to watch the women, then back home for Saturday's men's game.  Anyone else making the trip to Berea?

I'll be there.

Sort of a spiritual journey, ya know, visit those who have wronged you in the past.  Try and bring closure, that kind of thing. ;)

Should I bring extra little pills? :D  And if I do, can I take your picture by "the" sign?   ;)
Quote from: sac on March 05, 2008, 12:41:15 PM
I'm thinking maybe light a candle and leave it in front of the Bald-Wally statue (if there even is one), maybe on the the steps of the gym.  Something like that.

We'll see about any photography.

I hope that all of you have a safe trip visiting Baldwin-Wallace College ... In case you have not been there, you will be very impressed with the Lou Higgins Center and Urpsrung Gym ... While you are there, be sure to check out the athletic archives and read about the legendary Lee Tressel and his son, Jim.  ;)

SAC, there is no Baldy-Wally statue and there are not any steps leading to the gym's entrance, just a long sidewalk!

Again, safe travels! If you get there early, there are plenty of great places to eat down Bagley Road in either direction. If you want to know the good spots, send me a PM.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 05, 2008, 04:59:06 PM
Quote from: sac on March 05, 2008, 11:33:36 AM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on March 05, 2008, 10:49:01 AM
The current poll on the d3hoops front page asks which of the 3 unbeaten teams will be the first to go home.  Hope is leading in this poll, with 41.7% (at the time of this post) of those polled thinking they will be first to lose.  My first reaction was one of ire.  But, you know what?  That's the same opinion othershad of Hope 2 years ago at the final four.  We all know the results, and I think that speaks well of how Hope handles themselves when others believe them to be the underdog.

I still have confidence in them.  If other teams want to doubt them, fine.  Let them.  Come into the game overconfident and we'll see how Hope picks them apart.

Go Hope!!!

I voted and the average came down to 30...........so not many votes?  Keep hatin', thats all I have to say.

The fine print under the graphic states the number of votes.  Thomas More has been the 'leading' vote getter for a long time now.  Actually the safer bet is either Hope or Howard Payne, since one of them has to fall in the Elite Eight (if not before).  Hope got the first three votes - I know that because my vote for HPU turned out to be vote number four!

There is a thread in the multi-regions board addressing which unbeaten will go down first (Pat acknowleged there that he 'borrowed' the poll from them).  Those early votes 'for' Hope may have been the 'feisty' (i.e., delusional!) Puget Sound voters, who listed the order of falling by when they would meet UPS! :D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 05, 2008, 07:43:13 PM
Quote from: OC_SID on March 05, 2008, 04:47:30 PM
... While you are there, be sure to check out the athletic archives and read about the legendary Lee Tressel and his son, Jim.  ;)

Already getting nauseous, this is going to be harder than I thought. :-\
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Civic Minded on March 05, 2008, 09:42:26 PM
Quote from: sac on March 05, 2008, 07:43:13 PM
Quote from: OC_SID on March 05, 2008, 04:47:30 PM
... While you are there, be sure to check out the athletic archives and read about the legendary Lee Tressel and his son, Jim.  ;)

Already getting nauseous, this is going to be harder than I thought. :-\

I've never actually seen someone implode before.  Better take the camera along!   :D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mjfasteenwolf on March 06, 2008, 07:25:32 AM
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it looks like Hope will be without one of their key players for the tourney run. Not going to say who yet, because its not 100 percent, but just making sure nobody is caught of guard.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on March 06, 2008, 08:58:09 AM
Quote from: mjfasteenwolf on March 06, 2008, 07:25:32 AM
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it looks like Hope will be without one of their key players for the tourney run. Not going to say who yet, because its not 100 percent, but just making sure nobody is caught of guard.

Can you provide some insight or hint:  Grades, injury or illness?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mjfasteenwolf on March 06, 2008, 09:54:39 AM
Quote from: WWWRHH on March 06, 2008, 08:58:09 AM
Quote from: mjfasteenwolf on March 06, 2008, 07:25:32 AM
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it looks like Hope will be without one of their key players for the tourney run. Not going to say who yet, because its not 100 percent, but just making sure nobody is caught of guard.

Can you provide some insight or hint:  Grades, injury or illness?

Not a starter, but someone who plays quite a bit, and due to an injury.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 06, 2008, 10:38:40 AM
Quote from: mjfasteenwolf on March 06, 2008, 09:54:39 AM
Quote from: WWWRHH on March 06, 2008, 08:58:09 AM
Quote from: mjfasteenwolf on March 06, 2008, 07:25:32 AM
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it looks like Hope will be without one of their key players for the tourney run. Not going to say who yet, because its not 100 percent, but just making sure nobody is caught of guard.

Can you provide some insight or hint:  Grades, injury or illness?

Not a starter, but someone who plays quite a bit, and due to an injury.

Good thing they're deep.  And, I see that Howard Payne will have to play McMurray for the 3rd time this season, this Saturday.  We all know how hard it is to beat the same team 3 times in one year, right?   ;)  :D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mjfasteenwolf on March 06, 2008, 10:44:30 AM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on March 06, 2008, 10:38:40 AM
Quote from: mjfasteenwolf on March 06, 2008, 09:54:39 AM
Quote from: WWWRHH on March 06, 2008, 08:58:09 AM
Quote from: mjfasteenwolf on March 06, 2008, 07:25:32 AM
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it looks like Hope will be without one of their key players for the tourney run. Not going to say who yet, because its not 100 percent, but just making sure nobody is caught of guard.

Can you provide some insight or hint:  Grades, injury or illness?

Not a starter, but someone who plays quite a bit, and due to an injury.

Good thing they're deep.  And, I see that Howard Payne will have to play McMurray for the 3rd time this season, this Saturday.  We all know how hard it is to beat the same team 3 times in one year, right?   ;)  :D

I was thinking the same thing, depth shouldn't be too much of a problem, the injury might be at the thinnest position they have though. Also yes, go McMurray, looks like HP handled them fine last time, but hopefully 3rd times a charm.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dballa on March 06, 2008, 11:30:01 AM
Actually this is the 4th time HPU will be playing McMurry.  HPU beat them twice during conference play and the latest time by 22 points in the conference tournament on a neutral floor.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on March 06, 2008, 11:34:14 AM
mjfasteenwolf:  When you said it was injury to a non-starting key player I was pretty sure the wrist injury had worsened and now with your mention of this being a thin position I am pretty sure who you are referring to.  We can only hope that there is a chance it does not sideline her for the entire run.

But it sounds like we should expect to see Henderson and probably Green playing some extended minutes.

Considering how hard everyone has worked this is a real disappointment.  I feel so bad for the player.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mjfasteenwolf on March 06, 2008, 11:39:15 AM
Quote from: WWWRHH on March 06, 2008, 11:34:14 AM
mjfasteenwolf:  When you said it was injury to a non-starting key player I was pretty sure the wrist injury had worsened and now with your mention of this being a thin position I am pretty sure who you are referring to.  We can only hope that there is a chance it does not sideline her for the entire run.

But it sounds like we should expect to see Henderson and probably Green playing some extended minutes.

Considering how hard everyone has worked this is a real disappointment.  I feel so bad for the player.

Good detective skills, you narrowed it down to the right player, just a new more severe injury. You are also definetely right that Henderson, maybe Greene, and maybe Cowen/DeKuiper will be seeing more time. Hopefully they can step it up. I am not worried about Henderson needing to play more minutes, I think she will step it up. She can take charge of the team, and play all game without making many mistakes, i am sure some of you remember the 06 run, if she plays anything like that, Hope will be fine. The only thing that worries me, is although Henderson is a great defensive player, she cannot put the full court on the ball pressure on that Kopke does so well, the Flying  Dutch will miss that, but I think they will rise to the occassion.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: veragrace on March 06, 2008, 12:02:07 PM
You beat me to it but I was just about to guess Kopke as well.  I was really HOPEing it wasn't her.  She's been a great leader and defensive spark for the second team.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 06, 2008, 12:19:24 PM
Quote from: dballa on March 06, 2008, 11:30:01 AM
Actually this is the 4th time HPU will be playing McMurry.  HPU beat them twice during conference play and the latest time by 22 points in the conference tournament on a neutral floor.



dballa, you are correct.  However, it was kind of an inside joke to those reading this board who also frequent the men's MIAA board, where there was a discussion about 3rd meetings.  So it made a better reference to take some artistic liberty with the number of meetings.  That's all...

(Apologies to Mr. Sager.   ;D )
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dballa on March 06, 2008, 12:28:53 PM
No problem at all.  I think it's funny we have our Howard Payne fans hoping Hope loses so we could have a better opportunity to host and we have Hope fans wanting HPU to lose to have a better opportunity to host.  Even with that fans want HPU and Hope to play against each other if they make it that far.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: womens fan on March 06, 2008, 02:54:59 PM
Quote from: mjfasteenwolf on March 06, 2008, 11:39:15 AM
Quote from: WWWRHH on March 06, 2008, 11:34:14 AM
mjfasteenwolf:  When you said it was injury to a non-starting key player I was pretty sure the wrist injury had worsened and now with your mention of this being a thin position I am pretty sure who you are referring to.  We can only hope that there is a chance it does not sideline her for the entire run.

But it sounds like we should expect to see Henderson and probably Green playing some extended minutes.

Considering how hard everyone has worked this is a real disappointment.  I feel so bad for the player.

Good detective skills, you narrowed it down to the right player, just a new more severe injury. You are also definetely right that Henderson, maybe Greene, and maybe Cowen/DeKuiper will be seeing more time. Hopefully they can step it up. I am not worried about Henderson needing to play more minutes, I think she will step it up. She can take charge of the team, and play all game without making many mistakes, i am sure some of you remember the 06 run, if she plays anything like that, Hope will be fine. The only thing that worries me, is although Henderson is a great defensive player, she cannot put the full court on the ball pressure on that Kopke does so well, the Flying  Dutch will miss that, but I think they will rise to the occassion.


It is a shame to hear about Kopke. it will be a loss for the team if she is unable to play.

I think you are correct. Henderson can probably defend any player in almost any situation, but is best in the half court. Let's not forget that Cowen is coming close to being able to play the defense that Henderson does, and has the lateral speed to pressure the ball. I also expect to see some great things form DeKuiper in the future. It may be sooner than she was planning on, but this may be when we start to see what she is capable of.

I am hoping that the adversity that they are facing right now will bring them together and provide a little added motivation.... as if that is needed.

Go Hope.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: monsoon on March 06, 2008, 10:47:49 PM
Safe travels to everyone heading to Cleveland...they're calling for some nasty weather in Ohio this weekend.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 07, 2008, 05:44:31 AM
good luck girls tonight here is hoping you win tonight  good luck
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: veragrace on March 07, 2008, 12:59:58 PM
Sentinel calls Kopke "questionable" for Round One.  No specific mention of what the injury is but encouraging to me that they are not saying out for the whole tourney.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: OC_SID on March 07, 2008, 04:51:07 PM
Quote from: veragrace on March 07, 2008, 12:59:58 PM
Sentinel calls Kopke "questionable" for Round One.  No specific mention of what the injury is but encouraging to me that they are not saying out for the whole tourney.

I am listening to the pre-game show (from sunny Florida). I believe Ron is interviewing Dean Morehouse, and Dean just said that Kopke has ACL tear and is out for the tournament.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 07, 2008, 06:00:05 PM
No live stats?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on March 07, 2008, 07:12:37 PM
HOPE WINS!!!!   

(A copy of the Hope Sports Report)

WOMEN'S BASKETBALL
Flying Dutch Begin NCAA Tournament Run With Victory

Hope College coasted to a 76-47 victory over Juniata, Pa. in a first
round game of the NCAA Division III women's basketball championships
on Friday.

The game was played in snowy Ohio on the campus of Baldwin-Wallace
College. An impending blizzard caused B-W officials to close their
campus for the weekend, but the tournament games will go on since the
teams had already arrived.  Approximately 75 fans braved the slippery
roads to cheer the Flying Dutch to their 28th straight victory.

Coach Brian Morehouse's Flying Dutch were playing their 11th straight
NCAA game on the road.  Their 12th straight will come Saturday when
Hope plays the winner of a late Friday game between host
Baldwin-Wallace and D'Youville, N.Y.

The Flying Dutch were in command from the start, jumping out to a 14-0
lead.  Six minutes into the game Hope had a 17-2 lead.  Hope's
halftime  lead was 40-19.  Hope shot 54% (19-for-35) in the first half
led by Philana Green's 5-for-5 shooting performance.  Juniata,
meanwhile, made just five baskets over the first 20 minutes behind 23%
(5-for-26) shooting.

Greene and Jenny Cowen each finished with 12 points while Carrie
Snikkers added 10.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 07, 2008, 07:29:16 PM
veragrace just pointed out to me:  Hope's top scorers...sophmore, sophmore, freshman.  Sweet!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 08, 2008, 01:12:26 AM
Quote from: gohope on March 07, 2008, 07:12:37 PM
An impending blizzard caused B-W officials to close their
campus for the weekend, ..........

Wimps.  :D

This is coming from someone who just spent approximately 8 hours driving through said blizzard conditions from Columbus to Cleveland (Berea) and back to Michigan.    Tough it up.  :P

I'm usually happy to make Ann Arbor for other reasons leaving Ohio, tonight it was because it finally quit snowing somewhere around there.  Quite the adventure.

But I got to wish my niece happy birthday in person, spend some QT with the nephew,  get my but kicked in foosball by the little brother, did a little personal observation of Capital...........and I got to see Hope just basically clobber Juniata, I'm really not even sure the final score sums up the mismatch.  Hope played well there's little doubting that, but Juniata was pretty intimidated from the tip.  I thought a big part of Hope's 14-0 lead was just simple intimidation, lots of wild shots by Juniata.

Hope dominated the interior, dominated the boards.......there's a reason Hope shot well over 50%, lot of bunnies tonight, great interior passing.  Green was the early catalist, with a handfull of steals, a couple assists and some early points to get the  Dutch rolling.

Jenny Cowen really stood out tonight, I thought she played a great game, quite a lift for Hope in the absense of Kopke.  DeKuiper also played well, although the boxscore doesn't really show it.  Hope will miss Kopke, there's not quite the same killer energy on defense without her. 

In our haste to outrun and escape the great Ohio Blizzard of 2008, we headed home after the game, but it only took a look at warmups to see BW also had a huge mismatch vs D'Youville, I'm not surprised by that final score at all.  Hope/B-W should be a good one.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 08, 2008, 07:03:59 AM
good job last night and good luck tonight
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 08, 2008, 01:39:25 PM
Just found out we have a (quite thin) connection to Howard-Payne University.  veragrace is a screen printer and occasionally prints vinyl for the pads you see on the basketball posts like the ones at DeVos (yes, she printed those).  Rummaging through some files today, we discovered that she also printed Howard-Payne's pads.  She sometimes jokes that she should print a little "Go Hope" on the back (inside) of the pads before printing the image that's supposed to go on the front.  Did she do it with HPU's pads?   :o  ;)

There is another fieldhouse going up, a little closer to home.  The manufacturer of the hoop supports at Hope is in Grand Rapids.  I wonder if we'll be seeing an order for some maroon pads with gold images on them?  Hmmm...  Might present an opportunity too good to pass up.   ;)  :D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 08, 2008, 04:08:56 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on March 08, 2008, 01:39:25 PM
Just found out we have a (quite thin) connection to Howard-Payne University.  veragrace is a screen printer and occasionally prints vinyl for the pads you see on the basketball posts like the ones at DeVos (yes, she printed those).  Rummaging through some files today, we discovered that she also printed Howard-Payne's pads.  She sometimes jokes that she should print a little "Go Hope" on the back (inside) of the pads before printing the image that's supposed to go on the front.  Did she do it with HPU's pads?   :o  ;)

There is another fieldhouse going up, a little closer to home.  The manufacturer of the hoop supports at Hope is in Grand Rapids.  I wonder if we'll be seeing an order for some maroon pads with gold images on them?  Hmmm...  Might present an opportunity too good to pass up.   ;)  :D

Way too good to pass up - and at the very least, it might cause a good number of maroon and gold supporters to try to unwrap the supports, just to check  ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 08, 2008, 04:13:14 PM
The Dutch I believe are in for a battle tonight.  Definitely their biggest test of the season, against a quality opponent on the road (thanks NCAA).  The half I saw BW play last night the looked pretty good, and are as deep as Hope.  The thing they don;t have is the overabundance of size that Hope has.  That being said, it will be Hope's D that decides this game.  Last season, these two teams met in the second game of the year at DeVos, and Hope won by 2 on a runner by Henderson.  It could easily be that close tonight as well.

Go HOPE
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 08, 2008, 04:19:35 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 08, 2008, 04:08:56 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on March 08, 2008, 01:39:25 PM
Just found out we have a (quite thin) connection to Howard-Payne University.  veragrace is a screen printer and occasionally prints vinyl for the pads you see on the basketball posts like the ones at DeVos (yes, she printed those).  Rummaging through some files today, we discovered that she also printed Howard-Payne's pads.  She sometimes jokes that she should print a little "Go Hope" on the back (inside) of the pads before printing the image that's supposed to go on the front.  Did she do it with HPU's pads?   :o  ;)

There is another fieldhouse going up, a little closer to home.  The manufacturer of the hoop supports at Hope is in Grand Rapids.  I wonder if we'll be seeing an order for some maroon pads with gold images on them?  Hmmm...  Might present an opportunity too good to pass up.   ;)  :D

Way too good to pass up - and at the very least, it might cause a good number of maroon and gold supporters to try to unwrap the supports, just to check  ;D

The visual of a bunch of Calvin faithful madly tearing apart their shiny, spankin' new basketball pads looking for something that might or might not be printed on the inside makes me laugh.   :D  Kind of a comical version of the last lines of One Tin Soldier.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dothedew on March 08, 2008, 07:17:26 PM
Any updates from the Women's game would be great....they only have live stats for the men and radio for both....I'm listening to men's
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dothedew on March 08, 2008, 07:26:49 PM
I just got my answer...the Women are rollin'

Up 34-12 or something like that.

GIDDYUP
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on March 08, 2008, 08:17:27 PM
Last I heard it was 55-30. They should be able to coast from there.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on March 08, 2008, 08:24:58 PM
64-40
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on March 08, 2008, 08:46:19 PM
Sounds like a great road win for the women and not its not entirely impossible that Hope can host the next four rounds of the NCAA tourney. Although I believe that would require a Thomas More loss.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 08, 2008, 09:37:56 PM
Quote from: DCHopeNut on March 08, 2008, 08:46:19 PM
Sounds like a great road win for the women and not its not entirely impossible that Hope can host the next four rounds of the NCAA tourney. Although I believe that would require a Thomas More loss.

I think you mean Howard Payne.  The only way Hope would benefit from a Thomas More loss is, they would have to face them in the championship game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 08, 2008, 09:47:24 PM
what a great  game tonight for the hope girls    keep it rolling along
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: SKOT on March 08, 2008, 09:56:19 PM
Food for thought...Howard Payne is is like 175 miles from the nearest airport.  Hope is like 30.  That might make a difference as to who gets to host if it is between those two...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 08, 2008, 09:57:43 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on March 08, 2008, 09:37:56 PM
Quote from: DCHopeNut on March 08, 2008, 08:46:19 PM
Sounds like a great road win for the women and not its not entirely impossible that Hope can host the next four rounds of the NCAA tourney. Although I believe that would require a Thomas More loss.

I think you mean Howard Payne.   :o  The only way Hope would benefit from a Thomas More loss is, they would have to face them in the championship game.

So..........  Oglethorpe beats Thomas More tonight.  Looks like no teams will be traveling to Crestview Hills, KY, next weekend.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 08, 2008, 10:23:37 PM
Quote from: SKOT on March 08, 2008, 09:56:19 PM
Food for thought...Howard Payne is is like 175 miles from the nearest airport.  Hope is like 30.  That might make a difference as to who gets to host if it is between those two...
Good point, SKOT.  Austin and Dallas/Fort Worth Airports both look to be 3 hour drives away . . . which does suggest that the NCAA may put the women in Holland (seeding notwithstanding). . . and the men at Wheaton in Chicago?  (I don't want the Hope men to face Wheaton again, and certainly not on their home floor, but the women have certainly earned the right to some home court opportunity at the regional/sectional level.)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on March 08, 2008, 10:26:16 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 08, 2008, 04:13:14 PM
The Dutch I believe are in for a battle tonight.  Definitely their biggest test of the season, against a quality opponent on the road (thanks NCAA).  The half I saw BW play last night the looked pretty good, and are as deep as Hope.  The thing they don;t have is the overabundance of size that Hope has.  That being said, it will be Hope's D that decides this game.  Last season, these two teams met in the second game of the year at DeVos, and Hope won by 2 on a runner by Henderson.  It could easily be that close tonight as well.

Go HOPE

B-W is a good team, but last night they were playing D'Youville which was possilbly the slowest team I have ever seen.  They had a 6-4 center that was no where near as athletic as the Dutch posts.  I talked with some B-W parents and they seemed very confident based on the their teams performance against D'Youville.  In the end the Dutch played a very good offensive game, but the defensive ball pressure of Hope was not comparable to what B-W faced last night.

The Dutch size was also a big factor.  Snikkers and Knox played much more tonight.  Carrie had 15 pts, 10 rbs. and Knox had 10 pts / 7 rbs.  Lange had an injury to her shooting hand but still scored six and played great defense as always. As a team Hope dominated on the boards and with Boles both driving and putting up long range threes B-W never could find a rhythm.

Julie Henderson did a great job running the offense and controlling the tempo of the game and her defense was constantly disruptive.  However, the team did miss Kopke.

Since the big players were effective last night I wonder if they played limited minutes because that was all they were needed, to avoid injury or to make it more difficcult for B-W to scout tonight's game plan.  Whatever the reason, the "secret" is out.

After watching this weekend's games I am more convinced that Albion should have received a bid.  This season Alma took B-W to two overtimes and Clavin lost to B-W by 6.  I think both Juniata and D'Youville would be in the lower half of the MIAA.  Perhaps we should give our own conference more respect.  I hope the NCAA does in the future.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: House on March 08, 2008, 10:54:39 PM
Howard Payne wins. McMurry came back in the 2nd half and had it down to 6 points, but couldn't get closer. (listened to the McMurry broadcast)

At the end of the Hope game, the radio broadcaster was saying that the Hope Women will almost certainly travel to Howard Payne next weekend assuming HP wins. The funny thing was, at the end of the Howard Payne game, the McMurry anouncer said that everyone there told them Howard Payne should just go ahead and pack their bags for Holland Michigan. They speculated that HP might not get 45 Free Throws  :o playing on the road and would have a tougher time without the big (2613) home crowd.

I'm guessing the Hope Women will be flying to Texas next weekend. HP should have hosted a sectional last year, but travel restrictions forced them on the road. This year it looks like the NCAA set the bracket up so that every school would need to fly to the sectional no mater who hosted. Looks like they want to be able to justify having HP host.
Personally I would rather see the Women host and the Men on the road in what appears to be a weaker sectional. However, the Women proved they can beat top teams on the road in 2006, and again tonight.


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 08, 2008, 11:28:54 PM
Looking over the teams (for both the men and women) I gotta believe the men will be hosting - although I wish they both could.  The women (IMHO) will most likely be going to Howard Payne in Texas.  The reason I think this happens is two-fold.  HPU is the top ranked team, and all four teams are at least 700+ miles from each other, meaning 3 teams are flying somewhere, so it makes sense for the top team to host.  If the women aren't hosting, then the men have to be chosen based on their ranking.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 09, 2008, 12:52:55 AM
Abilene, Texas has an airport, they have daily flights to DFW several times a day.  Not more than 90 miles from Brownwood and Howard Payne.


Howard Payne has a beautifull facility, here's a taste.
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hputx.edu%2Fs%2F668%2Fimages%2Feditor%2FSID%2520pictures%2FColiseum5-w.jpg&hash=efdae019ca74d00b047003f5499d5928c24d7124)

the rest here....  http://www.hputx.edu/s/668/howardpayne.aspx?pgid=1591
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 09, 2008, 08:33:38 AM
the hope coach said maybe  texas or calfiorina or 50/50 shot of playing home
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 09, 2008, 08:41:20 AM
Wow, Sac, that is some facility . . . seats 4500 for a school of 1019 students?  And they had 2600+ there last night (and have had 2000+ for some other women's games this season)? 

I can see that, despite their hard-to-get-to location, they've made the case they can make for ever hosting a sectional tournament game.  The Hope women will never have faced an unfriendly crowd such as this . . . but at least they're back a ways from the court (I prefer Hope's more intimate courtside architecture).

Too bad the NCAA didn't place Hope and HPU in different sectionals.  (It's not that they're geographically linked.)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 09, 2008, 12:18:08 PM
Hope's next opponent George Fox actually has a common opponent from the MIAA with Hope.

George Fox 69 St. Mary's 58 at Trinity, TX

Hope 75 St. Mary's 58 at Hope
Hope 82 St. Mary's 73 at SMC
Hope 82 St. Mary's 65 at Hope

The roster
http://www.georgefox.edu/athletics/womens_bball/2008/roster.html

The schedule
http://www.georgefox.edu/athletics/womens_bball/2008/results.html
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 09, 2008, 12:36:23 PM
Howard Payne hosting sectionals.

Recommend flying to DFW and driving from there. Even if you caught the connection to Abilene, you'd be driving another 90 minutes.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 09, 2008, 02:19:11 PM
Pat Coleman is right about DFW.  Find I-20 and go west to Cisco TX (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisco,_Texas), home of Conrad Hilton's very first hotel, the Mobley (a nice little museum and community center.) Then turn south at Cisco.  You hunters will see some good deer and quail country.

An alternative if you could get a direct flight or use your miles is to fly into Austin and drive to Brownwood thru the hill country.  I don't know if the bluebonnets will be blooming yet.  (I do not know what the University of Texas at Austin is doing in hoops, either men or women.  That might be a conflict.)

Things to do in Brownwood.

Go to Coleman TX (http://www.d3hoops.com/dailydose/2006/12/04/traveling-tejas/) 30 miles west of Brownwood.

You Conan the Barbarian fans (http://www.opinionjournal.com/la/?id=110009378) can visit the home of Robert E. Howard in nearby Cross Plains, TX

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 09, 2008, 02:22:22 PM
As for playing in the Brownwood Mausoleum Coliseum, you Hope ladies just need to imagine that everyone in the stands is a Calvin grad.

Simple enough!  ;)

The Brownwood Coliseum is a city-owned facility that was built in 1964.  They replaced the original floor and other things over the summer.

News release (http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2007-08-01)

HPU is like most teams with rural players who grew up playing against their brothers.

The HPU roster is full of players from little hamlets such as Priddy, Magnolia, Tolar, Bloomington and Boerne (pronounced Burney).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on March 09, 2008, 03:42:45 PM
Here are two very unusual stats regarding the Hope-BW game yesterday.

Hope turns the ball over 24 times, compared to only 10 TOs for Balwin-Wallace.  On the other hand, they out-rebound the BW ladies 59-23!

They obviously need to protect the ball better the rest of the way.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: House on March 09, 2008, 04:13:38 PM
Thanks for the info Ralph Turner. Very interesting history on the Coliseum. I'd make fun of the fact that they were recently playing with non-standard goals, but Hope was on an incorrectly sized floor until 2005.
I lisened to the end of the McMurry game last night. Sounds like D3 is losing one of it's finest with that loss. Did HPU really earn 45 free throws?
Any chance you could give us an HPU scouting report?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dballa on March 09, 2008, 05:40:02 PM
House,

The officials at the McMurry/HPU game had never called a game for either team.  They have however called a lot of DI games.  What HPU does is attack the rim with their guards and their two senior posts Hoffman and Blalock.  If you look at their free throws in most of the games throughout the year they've shot quite a few. 

I know I get a lot of McMurry fans riled up on our ASC board but I want to tell Hope fans that I can't wait to see your team play in person.  I've seen their scores, stats, and watched them on video on the internet and it will be a real treat to have them play at our place.

I hope you guys enjoy your experience in Texas, and hopefully I'll get to meet a few of you if you come on down.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hwbb on March 09, 2008, 07:13:15 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 09, 2008, 12:36:23 PM
Howard Payne hosting sectionals.



So Pat, in addition to your travel tips, might you also try to explain the NCAA D3 committee a bit more. The Hope women's game against George Fox on Friday night will be their 13th consecutive NCAA tournament game on the road dating back to 2002. That includes a run to the Elite Eight and a national champtionship (both done entirely on the road), for a program that's in the top ten for most appearances in your poll. If good programs earn the right to host, I can't connect the logic here. And why match up the undefeateds so early? Why does this make sense? Can you help? Thanks. And by the way, I hope the ever-frugal NCAA is saving money, because this weird bracket means I would need to spend at least $2500 for two of us to go this weekend, given airfares from Grand Rapids. Anybody know if Hope will sponsor any kind of group travel?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on March 09, 2008, 08:39:06 PM
Quote from: Hwbb on March 09, 2008, 07:13:15 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 09, 2008, 12:36:23 PM
Howard Payne hosting sectionals.



I hope the ever-frugal NCAA is saving money, because this weird bracket means I would need to spend at least $2500 for two of us to go this weekend, given airfares from Grand Rapids. Anybody know if Hope will sponsor any kind of group travel?


One of the parents is examining a charter flight.

Flights from O'Hare are significantly cheaper, but flight, hotel and car for two will still run $1,000 plus.  Perhaps the Hope administration will consider reducing the tuition bill for team parents or the future tuition for the children of fans that make the trip  :) :) or would that violate D3 rules.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 09, 2008, 08:59:38 PM
Quote from: Hwbb on March 09, 2008, 07:13:15 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 09, 2008, 12:36:23 PM
Howard Payne hosting sectionals.



So Pat, in addition to your travel tips, might you also try to explain the NCAA D3 committee a bit more. The Hope women's game against George Fox on Friday night will be their 13th consecutive NCAA tournament game on the road dating back to 2002. That includes a run to the Elite Eight and a national champtionship (both done entirely on the road), for a program that's in the top ten for most appearances in your poll. If good programs earn the right to host, I can't connect the logic here. And why match up the undefeateds so early? Why does this make sense? Can you help? Thanks. And by the way, I hope the ever-frugal NCAA is saving money, because this weird bracket means I would need to spend at least $2500 for two of us to go this weekend, given airfares from Grand Rapids. Anybody know if Hope will sponsor any kind of group travel?

The Hope ladies have been unlucky in that their two best teams (2006, 2008) had to compete against the men for 1st and 2nd round hosting priorities.  On top of that the MIAA doesn't seem to get much of a fair shake with the Great Lakes regional committee.  Hope and Calvin had excellent teams the last three years, yet neither have hosted a tournament game. 

2005 was the last time an MIAA team hosted an NCAA game when Calvin was awarded the Sectional.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 09, 2008, 09:12:19 PM
Doesn't hosting the Final Four kinda make up for the 'snubs'? ;)

Just make sure you get there!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 09, 2008, 09:19:29 PM
Quote from: Hwbb on March 09, 2008, 07:13:15 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 09, 2008, 12:36:23 PM
Howard Payne hosting sectionals.



So Pat, in addition to your travel tips, might you also try to explain the NCAA D3 committee a bit more. The Hope women's game against George Fox on Friday night will be their 13th consecutive NCAA tournament game on the road dating back to 2002. That includes a run to the Elite Eight and a national champtionship (both done entirely on the road), for a program that's in the top ten for most appearances in your poll. If good programs earn the right to host, I can't connect the logic here. And why match up the undefeateds so early? Why does this make sense? Can you help? Thanks. And by the way, I hope the ever-frugal NCAA is saving money, because this weird bracket means I would need to spend at least $2500 for two of us to go this weekend, given airfares from Grand Rapids. Anybody know if Hope will sponsor any kind of group travel?

Howard Payne was higher seeded this year. Sac has a pretty good take above on previous years.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 09, 2008, 09:24:12 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 09, 2008, 09:12:19 PM
Doesn't hosting the Final Four kinda make up for the 'snubs'? ;)

Just make sure you get there!
Not really Mr.Y,  Hope isn't hosting the Final Four so they can play it at home, their hosting independant of what the team is doing.

...........the tournament committee won't say it, but I'm sure it was factored in that Hope was hosting the final four.

They had a chance to put Hope at home this past weekend per their own guidelines and didn't, instead sent them to presumably the #4 ranked Great Lakes Region team.  All while being unbeaten and ranked #3 behind a team with a loss in the previous poll.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 09, 2008, 10:44:00 PM
Those guidelines also say the following, however:

"The committees prefer that institutions not host both men's and women's events in the same round of the championships."
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 09, 2008, 10:55:25 PM
This HPU looks that strongest of any team that we have seen in the ASC this decade.

It has more depth than the Kendra Anderson 2003 team that lost in the Sectional to National Champ Trinity or the early 2000 teams coached by Julie Goodenough, formerly of Okie State and now of Charleston Southern in the Big South.

Maybe a bit stronger post play than the 2006 McMurry team that lost to Cinderella HSU team that went to the Final Four.

Finally has the tournament maturity (to wit, the first round loss to Trinity in 2005, the loss to HSU in the first round in 2006, the Sweet 16 loss in Decorah IA in 2007)  that it takes to get this far.

Nice addition in Katy Sarem at Guard.  She worked her way into the starting lineup by Christmas. 

The front court has five solid players...Blalock, Hoffman, Hobbs, Hohertz and Jockers.  I think that Jockers has made the biggest improvement this year.  They can play a very physical style of ball that you usually don't see in the South.  They do not lose anything when Coach Kielsmeir goes to his bench in the standard rotation.

HPU has shot the free throws very well.  Blalock, Daniels and Hoffman all hit > 80%.

The All-American (point) guard is Meia Daniels from Ft Worth.  She is as quick as anyone you have seen this year.  ASC POTY (in a conference that has Tarra Richardson).  When McMurry closed to 6 with 4:30 left, Daniels drained 3 consecutive 3FG's to put the game out of reach.  Daniels can drive the basket hard, too.

This team has the right combination of speed and physical size to advance far in the tourney.

ASC-West basketball is very good quality.  #5 Concordia-Austin, coached by former WNBA head coach Linda Sharp could win 10 D-III conferences. #4 UMHB could win 15 conferences.  #3 HSU could win 20 conferences; McM at least 25 to 30.  HPU is a well-coached battle-hardened team and the Brownwood Coliseum will be loud.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeCSO on March 10, 2008, 12:18:59 AM
I found some travel options:  ($479.00 PP including all taxes,fees and midsize rental car)  Leaving on Thursday, March 13, 2008  Grand Rapids, MI (GRR) to Dallas, TX (DFW)  1 Stop Jet Aircraft  Anytime between 5am-2am (next day) (airline will choose flight times)  Includes Mid Size Car 
Returning Flight  Monday, March 17, 2008   Dallas, TX (DFW) to Grand Rapids, MI (Grand Rapids - Kent County Intl Grand Rapids, MI   1 Stop  Jet Aircraft  Anytime between 6am-10pm (airline will choose flight times) 

($551.00 PP including all taxes, fees, and midsize rental car) Departing Flight Thursday, March 13, 2008  Grand Rapids, MI (GRR)  to Dallas, TX (Dallas Fort Worth Intl Dallas, TX 1 Stop Jet Aircraft  Anytime between
5am-2am (next day) (airline will choose flight times)  Includes Mid Size Car   
Returning Flight Sunday, March 16, 2008   Dallas, TX (DFW) to Grand Rapids, MI (GRR)  1 Stop Jet Aircraft  Anytime between 6am-10pm (airline will choose flight times) 

Hotels run from $50.00 to $99.00 per night within Brownwood, TX.  Hope this helps those heading south.  You can email me from the link on the left if you have questions or need help.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: JACKET84 on March 10, 2008, 09:13:25 AM
Quote from: pointlem on March 09, 2008, 08:41:20 AM
Wow, Sac, that is some facility . . . seats 4500 for a school of 1019 students?  And they had 2600+ there last night (and have had 2000+ for some other women's games this season)? 

I can see that, despite their hard-to-get-to location, they've made the case they can make for ever hosting a sectional tournament game.  The Hope women will never have faced an unfriendly crowd such as this . . . but at least they're back a ways from the court (I prefer Hope's more intimate courtside architecture).

Too bad the NCAA didn't place Hope and HPU in different sectionals.  (It's not that they're geographically linked.)
I'm not sure how they came up with 2,635.  The coliseum was approx. 90% + full.  I was estimating 3,800-3,900.  IF Hope and HPU make it to the Saturday game, I know there will be more than 4,000 in attendance.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mjfasteenwolf on March 10, 2008, 11:00:53 AM
Quote from: Hwbb on March 09, 2008, 07:13:15 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 09, 2008, 12:36:23 PM
Howard Payne hosting sectionals.



Anybody know if Hope will sponsor any kind of group travel?

There has been some talk of chartering a flight for everyone who wants to go down to TX, could save a couple hundred per person on the flight.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 10, 2008, 01:40:54 PM
Air Hope.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 10, 2008, 02:00:43 PM
Or a nice 20 hr road trip.  :o
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&geocode=&saddr=49423&daddr=brownwood+tx&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=41.767874,94.658203&ie=UTF8&z=5 (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&geocode=&saddr=49423&daddr=brownwood+tx&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=41.767874,94.658203&ie=UTF8&z=5)

Leave after work on Thursday, check in and take a nap before the game... no problem! :P :D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 10, 2008, 02:08:07 PM
Anyone know if the Alumni office tries to rally the troops in Texas? In the last Alumni directory I count almost 400 Hope alum living in TX...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hwbb on March 10, 2008, 08:37:02 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 09, 2008, 09:19:29 PM
Quote from: Hwbb on March 09, 2008, 07:13:15 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 09, 2008, 12:36:23 PM
Howard Payne hosting sectionals.





Howard Payne was higher seeded this year. Sac has a pretty good take above on previous years.

Well, yes, obviously Howard Payne was a higher seed. So they host. Okay, fine. What I was trying to ascertain were answers to the broader questions, one I perhaps asked poorly: for example, how does the NCAA preach regional commpetition all year and then create a sectional that stretches to the geographical extremes of the USA; why did the NCAA match up two of the three undefeateds before the final four; and if the answer to the second question is that they think Hope is only the seventh or eighth best team, then why the huge disparity between the NCAA and d3hoops. Are we watching different teams? I've missed the logic of the NCAA this year. Something stinks.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: golfniz1 on March 10, 2008, 09:33:13 PM
Hwbb I agree with you 100% I could not believe they had Hope and HPU in the same bracket it is mind boggling!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: monsoon on March 11, 2008, 11:39:43 AM
Quote from: Hwbb on March 10, 2008, 08:37:02 PM
...how does the NCAA preach regional commpetition all year and then create a sectional that stretches to the geographical extremes of the USA; why did the NCAA match up two of the three undefeateds before the final four;

Yet, if they had set up the bracket regionally, we would have had Hope and Thomas More in the same bracket, likely meeting even sooner than Hope and HPU could potentially meet.  And just for the fun of it, we could have played those games in Greencastle.  ;D    And it's not as if Howard Payne doesn't deserve to host in their own right - they do.  Would I rather be playing in DeVos than in the Mausoleum?  Of course, but HPU is certainly worthy of hosting.

Over the last few years, it has been very clear that the Women's Committee moves teams around more in putting the bracket together than does the Men's Committee - most of the "resident sages" of d3hoops (the long-time, well-respected posters) and many others applaud this work by the Women's Committee and wish the Men's Committee would do the same.
Title: HOPE COLLEGE
Post by: twoblindrefs on March 11, 2008, 12:47:57 PM
Can anyone share suggestions for some nice places to eat around Hope College? I'm sure many folks will be going to the Final FDOur and some of the local posters from that area might be good resources! Thanks, Dan
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on March 11, 2008, 01:08:12 PM
Within walking distance from campus:

New Holland Brewing Company: sandwiches, pizzas, big salads. The G-Love burger is excellent. Very fine crafted brews. Meals under $10.

84 East: italian, reasonably priced.

8th Street Grille: sandwiches, burgers, soups and salads. Beer on tap. Reasonably priced.

Via Maria: italian, more expensive. Good food and drink.

Russ': american food, extensive menu. LOVE the twinburger. Very reasonably priced.

Long John Silver.

The Curraugh: moderately priced ($10-15). Irish pub, good beer selection. Food is decent enough.

Subs-n'more: pizza and subs. Also a Quiznos across the street.

Various ice cream and coffee shops also right by campus. New Holland is my favorite place downtown, and I have a special weakness for Russ', which is a great family place.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 11, 2008, 01:42:38 PM
Don't forget:

Froggy's: hotdogs, burgers, and hand-dipped ice cream

Gregordog: hotdogs

Kozak's: Gyros, chicago-style hotdogs, and homemade baklava

...for the hotdog crowd.  All are better than the hotdogs at DeVos.   :o  Did I just say that?   ;)

To be fair, the DeVos concession stands offer more than just hotdogs.


If you want something you're familiar with, there are plenty of national chain family-style restaurants along US31 (Appleby's, Ruby Tuesday's, Ihop, etc.).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Civic Minded on March 11, 2008, 02:10:40 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on March 11, 2008, 01:42:38 PM

...for the hotdog crowd.  All are better than the hotdogs at DeVos.   :o  Did I just say that?   ;)

To be fair, the DeVos concession stands offer more than just hotdogs.


Hey!  I like the DeVos hotdogs (even without the now world famous condiments)!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 11, 2008, 02:22:44 PM
Quote from: twoblindrefs on March 11, 2008, 12:47:57 PM
Can anyone share suggestions for some nice places to eat around Hope College? I'm sure many folks will be going to the Final FDOur and some of the local posters from that area might be good resources! Thanks, Dan

The word of warning would be any of these downtown places will be pretty busy before the games both Friday and Saturday, even if Hope isn't there.

My favorite, 8th Street Grill, is usually packed before games.


This should help..

http://holland.org/sections/32-dining
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: SKOT on March 11, 2008, 03:06:18 PM
How you can talk about dining in Holland without mentioning their amazing authentic Mexican places like Margarita's and Taco Fiesta is beyond me!  Both are excellent choices and don't break the bank!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: veragrace on March 11, 2008, 03:51:02 PM
Also happening downtown on this Saturday at noon is the St Patricks Day parade.  The Curragh will have live music starting around 11:30 all day long and will be ridiculously busy.  If you're up for a late night, check out The Green Room playing at 11pm...very fun band.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 11, 2008, 05:57:26 PM
you can not forget  about  skiles tavern  maybe the best  pizza and beer down town with walking from the devoss
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 11, 2008, 08:47:19 PM
Please do not kill the messenger.  :)   :)
Yesterday I spoke with a friend who is on the staff at Schreiner U.  They are in Kerrville TX, and the same conference as HPU.  When I mentioned Hope playing HPU the phone went silent for several moments, and then he asked if I knew how good they were.  I said obviously good enough that they are undefeated, and hosting a sectional.  His main point was look at the team roster, and realize that this team is made up of young ladies (many of whom) just missed getting D2 rides.  His comment is that they are extremely quick,  like to drive,  and like to pressure the ball.  Generally TX players are weak on some fundamentals, but his thought was this team is the real deal, and playing them at their place is no picnic.
Please do not kill the messenger.  :) 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 11, 2008, 09:10:32 PM
good luck hope girls   i hope you have a nice air plane from tulip city airport   and good luck hope you come back with 2  wins and safe travel
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 11, 2008, 09:18:10 PM
Quote from: realist on March 11, 2008, 08:47:19 PM
Please do not kill the messenger.  :)   :)
Yesterday I spoke with a friend who is on the staff at Schreiner U.  They are in Kerrville TX, and the same conference as HPU.  When I mentioned Hope playing HPU the phone went silent for several moments, and then he asked if I knew how good they were.  I said obviously good enough that they are undefeated, and hosting a sectional.  His main point was look at the team roster, and realize that this team is made up of young ladies (many of whom) just missed getting D2 rides.  His comment is that they are extremely quick,  like to drive,  and like to pressure the ball.  Generally TX players are weak on some fundamentals, but his thought was this team is the real deal, and playing them at their place is no picnic.
Please do not kill the messenger.  :) 

No reason to kill the messenger - it's nice to hear that assessment.  Of course I think you might hear the same thing about our team, so we'll just have to go down there and show them.  Potentially an awesome game -but right now Hope needs to focus on George Fox.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 11, 2008, 09:50:57 PM
Looks like great golfing weather this week!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on March 11, 2008, 11:20:16 PM
Quote from: realist on March 11, 2008, 08:47:19 PM
Please do not kill the messenger.  :)   :)
Yesterday I spoke with a friend who is on the staff at Schreiner U.  They are in Kerrville TX, and the same conference as HPU.  When I mentioned Hope playing HPU the phone went silent for several moments, and then he asked if I knew how good they were.  I said obviously good enough that they are undefeated, and hosting a sectional.  His main point was look at the team roster, and realize that this team is made up of young ladies (many of whom) just missed getting D2 rides.  His comment is that they are extremely quick,  like to drive,  and like to pressure the ball.  Generally TX players are weak on some fundamentals, but his thought was this team is the real deal, and playing them at their place is no picnic.
Please do not kill the messenger.  :) 

I concur that there is no need to kill the messenger.  Their are reasons that both Hope and Howard Payne would prefer to play on their home courts this weekend.  No one makes it this far unless they are a very good team.

But several Hope players also had the opportunity to play in scholarship programs.  For instance, "everyone" knows that Carrie Snikkers was Miss Michigan Basketball runnerup and left a full ride DI scholoarship to come to Hope.  She is obviously very talented and has had a big impact in the tournament.  However, both Knox and Lange are more or less equally productive in the post.  Hope's guards are quick and play great ball defense.  Hopefully both teams get past the Friday games and face each other Saturday.  It has the makings of a great game.  Too bad it is not equal distance from both schools so the crowd would be more evenly balanced.

As has been mentioned on this board often, Hope's strength is its balance and depth.  Not many teams can count on near equal scoring from the first and second rotations.  The Dutch average 78 pts per game and the leading scorer averages only 11.3.  HPU average 76.8 pts. per game and three of their players average 12.9 or better.

HPU does have some size and starts  a 6-0 F and 6-2 C, but does not seem to go as deep inside as the Dutch.  Hope's post are tall, fast and strong (if you have time take a look at Lange's (an All-american heptathlete) and Knox's performances at the conference track meet - not what you would expect from girls their size).  I suspect the overall balance, 10 deep rotation, depth at the big positions, combined with quick defensive minded guards and a couple of outside shooters might present a look that HPU has not seen this year.

Again the makings of a great game, but not a guaranteed victory for anyone.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 12, 2008, 09:46:54 AM
Personally I think Hope has the depth to be able to handle HPU, should that game come to pass.  The point the Schreiner guy was making is HPU has had considerable success in forcing other team's ball handlers into making bad decisons.   On several occassions posters have mentioned the turnovers the Hope team has had in some games.    His feeling was turnovers could very well be a telling factor should the two teams meet.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 12, 2008, 09:51:24 AM
For anyone who has the ability to get away from work for a few minutes today, the Hope women will be leaving for Texas today, and Tom Renner (on the Hope Sports Report this morning) suggested that we give them a send-off.  They will be boarding the bus at 2:45, and leaving around 3:15 from the DeVos parking lot (the rear lot by the loading dock).  The bus will be taking them to Tulip City Airport, to board a charter plane for Texas.

Interesting side note - the same plane that earlier will be arriving with the Whitworth mens team from California.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 12, 2008, 09:55:54 AM
Quote from: realist on March 12, 2008, 09:46:54 AM
Personally I think Hope has the depth to be able to handle HPU, should that game come to pass.  The point the Schreiner guy was making is HPU has had considerable success in forcing other team's ball handlers into making bad decisons.   On several occassions posters have mentioned the turnovers the Hope team has had in some games.    His feeling was turnovers could very well be a telling factor should the two teams meet.

It is true that Hope turns the ball over at a fairly high rate - averaging 18.5 turnovers per game.  A big reason for this is how hard they push the ball up the court. 

Another factor to look at is that although they average 18.5 turnovers per game, they are forcing their opponents to turn the ball over 23.9 times per game.  Hope is also averaging 14.4 steals per game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: JACKET84 on March 12, 2008, 10:32:22 AM
Hope should enjoy the weather in Brownwood.  High in the 80's.  Near 90 on Friday.  Cooling off to the 70's on Saturday.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 12, 2008, 11:35:03 AM
I don't have an idea if Meia Daniels is quicker than any Hope guards, but HPU has been able to push the zone outwards versus outside shooters in the last few years.

The HPU front court seems sufficiently deep to match Hope on rotation.  I also wonder if the amount of quickness that we see in guard play in the ASC is comparable to the MIAA.

I have reviewed the stats of HPU's games at Chapman and vs Redlands in California and then the games versus the Top 4 teams in the ASC-East (UT-Tyler, UT-Dallas, Mississippi College and Louisiana College and the next four teams in the ASC-West, (McMurry, Hardin-Simmons, UMHB and Concordia TX) whom I consider the creditable opponents for this analysis.  All teams in the analysis have winning in-region records.

In those 18 games, the opponents averaged 12.9 offensive rebounds and 21.8 defensive rebounds or 34.8 rebounds per game.  They committed 21.3 turnovers and got 8.6 steals per game.

HPU got 11.6 offensive rebounds and 27.6 defensive rebounds or 39.3 rebounds per game.  They committed 18.6 turnovers and got 13.7 steals per game.

Five more rebounds, three fewer turnovers and 5 more steals per game for HPU than their best opponents..

This should be interesting.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mjfasteenwolf on March 12, 2008, 11:46:35 AM
ACTION ALERT:
All or most of you are aware that Hope College is hosting the NCAA
Division III Women's Basketball Championship next weekend.  Hope has
been chosen to do this because of the quality of our institution.
However, the quality of our institution is degraded when a few decide
to mar its reputation.  Today, it was noticed that three NCAA Welcome
banners had been stolen from the lamppost in the front circle of
DeVos.  This is HIGHLY disappointing!!  We ask that those who may know
the whereabouts of these stolen banners, please find them and return
them to the DeVos Fieldhouse, no questions asked. We are trying to put
our best feet forward for our visitors and the NCAA.  Actions like
this do not allow that to happen.  Please help!!

Eva Dean Folkert (folkert@hope.edu)
Director of Women's Athletics

This is too bad, HOPEfully whoever took those will decide they should represent Hope with a little more class.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 12, 2008, 12:08:19 PM
that is to bad some stole the banners no class at all
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Civic Minded on March 12, 2008, 12:53:51 PM
gohope, any thoughts?    ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 12, 2008, 01:23:05 PM
Not the first time those rowdy Hopesters have stolen banners. :P
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 12, 2008, 01:28:36 PM
Some food for thought.  A comparison of Hope and HPU, should they meet



Offense     % 2pt   % 3pt      % FT
Hope     47.9   33.2      63.5
HPU     50.2   33.5      75.8
            
Defense     % 2pt   % 3pt     
Hope     34.8   27.2     
HPU     34.6   23.3     
            
Rebounding     Team   Opp      Margin
Hope     46.7   36.1      10.6
HPU     41.2   31.9      9.3
            
Scoring     Team   Opp      Margin
Hope     78.0   55.4      22.6
HPU     76.8   47.1      29.7
            
3 point shooting     Attempts   Made      Made/game
Hope     413   137      4.7
HPU     361   121      4.2
            
Blocks     Total   per game     
Hope     183   6.3     
HPU     101   3.5     
            
Steals     Total   per game     
Hope     418   14.4     
HPU     447   15.4     
            
Turnovers     Total    per game     
Hope     536   18.5     
HPU     501   17.3     
            
Assists     Total   per game     
Hope     473   16.3     
HPU     371   12.8     
            
Assist/Turnover             
Hope     0.88        
HPU     0.74        
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 12, 2008, 01:29:23 PM
Quote from: sac on March 12, 2008, 01:23:05 PM
Not the first time those rowdy Hopesters have stolen banners. :P

Where's the banner (clap, clap, clap, clap, clap)...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 12, 2008, 01:40:16 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 12, 2008, 09:55:54 AM
Quote from: realist on March 12, 2008, 09:46:54 AM
Personally I think Hope has the depth to be able to handle HPU, should that game come to pass.  The point the Schreiner guy was making is HPU has had considerable success in forcing other team's ball handlers into making bad decisons.   On several occassions posters have mentioned the turnovers the Hope team has had in some games.    His feeling was turnovers could very well be a telling factor should the two teams meet.

It is true that Hope turns the ball over at a fairly high rate - averaging 18.5 turnovers per game.  A big reason for this is how hard they push the ball up the court. 

Another factor to look at is that although they average 18.5 turnovers per game, they are forcing their opponents to turn the ball over 23.9 times per game.  Hope is also averaging 14.4 steals per game.

That's a good analysis by FDF. Hope's women average nearly 65 shots taken per game. That's a lot of shots, and a lot of possessions per game.  HPU has played the same number of games as Hope and has taken 265 fewer shots than has Hope so the two teams obviously play at different paces. By contrast, Calvin's women average 53 shots per game and Hope's men (whose offense I consider to be pretty high octane) average about 60 shots. IMO, Hope's women do a good job of taking care of the ball and if any opponent thinks they have an advantage in the TO department I think they will find that assumption to be quite mistaken.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: JACKET84 on March 12, 2008, 02:06:58 PM
HPU isn't looking past DeSales.  It will be tough to beat them, just like it will be hard for Hope to beat George Fox.  At this point of the tournament, anybody can win.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on March 12, 2008, 03:19:21 PM
Quote from: Civic Minded on March 12, 2008, 12:53:51 PM
gohope, any thoughts?    ;)


NOT ME This time!!!  The thought NEVER even entered the noggin!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Civic Minded on March 12, 2008, 03:23:09 PM
Just went to see the ladies off -- they all seemed really excited, and thought it was cool that there were people there to wish them well before they headed on their way.  While many of the fans there were comiserating with them about the "unfortunateness" of them having to play away from home, they seem to have a pretty good attitude about it.

Go get 'em, ladies!  We'll be cheering you on from home!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 12, 2008, 03:28:03 PM
yes good luck it would be nice if hope went 4-0  this weekend  then i  dont know whitch final 4 i would go to it would be tuff 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on March 12, 2008, 03:38:54 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 12, 2008, 11:35:03 AM
I have reviewed the stats of HPU's games at Chapman and vs Redlands in California and then the games versus the Top 4 teams in the ASC-East (UT-Tyler, UT-Dallas, Mississippi College and Louisiana College and the next four teams in the ASC-West, (McMurry, Hardin-Simmons, UMHB and Concordia TX) whom I consider the creditable opponents for this analysis.  All teams in the analysis have winning in-region records.

Five more rebounds, three fewer turnovers and 5 more steals per game for HPU than their best opponents..

This should be interesting.

I have become more optimistic.  Over the Christmas holidays I needed a basketball fix and went to Kalamazoo to see their holiday tournament.  Redlands barely escaped Kazoo with a 2 point win over the worst team in the MIAA and beat Rose-Hulman, a very average team, by 6.  Perhaps it was the cold weather or the travel (why would a CA team come to MI in late December).  but Redlands looked like a team that Hope's third string would have made a very early entrance against.  I would not characterize them as quick.


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeCSO on March 12, 2008, 04:00:37 PM
Quote from: Civic Minded on March 12, 2008, 03:23:09 PM
Just went to see the ladies off -- they all seemed really excited, and thought it was cool that there were people there to wish them well before they headed on their way.  While many of the fans there were comiserating with them about the "unfortunateness" of them having to play away from home, they seem to have a pretty good attitude about it.

Go get 'em, ladies!  We'll be cheering you on from home!

The ladies left Devos parking lot at 3:14pm with a nice fan base to send them off.  I was glad to be there to see their smiling excited faces.  May God's right hand be upon you ladies as you travel, play, and come home to your Hope family.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 12, 2008, 04:02:02 PM
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhollandsentinel.com%2Fimages%2F031208%2F61614_246.jpg&hash=aba9960dc67da212a68d7dbdaa214078f7b46316)

Ed says Go Hope..........and recycle!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 12, 2008, 08:11:19 PM
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hope.edu%2Fimg%2F355%2Fwbasketball%2F08dWBBAirport355.jpg&hash=d18a41709ed579d70052461e047135027f38e285)

Hope women at the airport, in one of those "are they really makeing us do this" kind of moments.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Civic Minded on March 12, 2008, 09:53:26 PM
Quote from: sac on March 12, 2008, 08:11:19 PM
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hope.edu%2Fimg%2F355%2Fwbasketball%2F08dWBBAirport355.jpg&hash=d18a41709ed579d70052461e047135027f38e285)

Hope women at the airport, in one of those "are they really makeing us do this" kind of moments.

Oh mercy.   :P
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on March 13, 2008, 08:33:10 AM
Quote from: sac on March 12, 2008, 04:02:02 PM
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhollandsentinel.com%2Fimages%2F031208%2F61614_246.jpg&hash=aba9960dc67da212a68d7dbdaa214078f7b46316)

Ed says Go Hope..........and recycle!

Sigh. Don't get me started...

It's hard not to look ahead to a Hope/HPU matchup. Ralph has given us excellent insight into what is obviously a very good HPU team. OK seems very confident about this Hope team. If Hope can win on HPU's home floor, that would be quite a statement, obviously.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 13, 2008, 08:35:26 AM
Quote from: HopeConvert on March 13, 2008, 08:33:10 AM
Quote from: sac on March 12, 2008, 04:02:02 PM
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhollandsentinel.com%2Fimages%2F031208%2F61614_246.jpg&hash=aba9960dc67da212a68d7dbdaa214078f7b46316)

Ed says Go Hope..........and recycle!

Sigh. Don't get me started...

It's hard not to look ahead to a Hope/HPU matchup. Ralph has given us excellent insight into what is obviously a very good HPU team. OK seems very confident about this Hope team. If Hope can win on HPU's home floor, that would be quite a statement, obviously.

Is it just me, or does Ed look like he's been recycled?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mjfasteenwolf on March 13, 2008, 11:24:36 AM
Quote from: HopeConvert on March 13, 2008, 08:33:10 AM
Quote from: sac on March 12, 2008, 04:02:02 PM
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhollandsentinel.com%2Fimages%2F031208%2F61614_246.jpg&hash=aba9960dc67da212a68d7dbdaa214078f7b46316)

Ed says Go Hope..........and recycle!

Sigh. Don't get me started...

It's hard not to look ahead to a Hope/HPU matchup. Ralph has given us excellent insight into what is obviously a very good HPU team. OK seems very confident about this Hope team. If Hope can win on HPU's home floor, that would be quite a statement, obviously.

You are 100% right, it is really hard to to look ahead to that matchup. I think it will definetely happen. From what I have heard around the basketball world, Hope should not have too much of a problem with George Fox, and I do not see HPU losing on their home court Friday. Hopefully I will have a different feeling on Saturday though if they are playing the Dutch. Both teams sound great, and I have no idea who would win, unfortunately if Hope would lose I would have to wonder how the game would have gone if it was played at Devos, or on a neutral floor, but you have to play the cards you are dealt. If Hope can make it to that game, and win it, I don't see anybody in the nation being able to stop that momentum, especially having to come in to Holland. With that all said, its all a long ways away, lets first take care of GF, then we'll look to the future.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 13, 2008, 12:30:33 PM
i will have to listen friday at 6.00 i wonder what whtc radion guy is flying out to texas  i hope the girls play well
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 13, 2008, 01:33:28 PM
Ron Weatherby flew to Texas with the team, and will be broadcasting from there, followed by the mens game broadcast by Greg Chandler.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 13, 2008, 02:37:48 PM
Quote from: HopeConvert on March 13, 2008, 08:33:10 AM
Quote from: sac on March 12, 2008, 04:02:02 PM
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhollandsentinel.com%2Fimages%2F031208%2F61614_246.jpg&hash=aba9960dc67da212a68d7dbdaa214078f7b46316)

Ed says Go Hope..........and recycle!

Sigh. Don't get me started...

It's hard not to look ahead to a Hope/HPU matchup. Ralph has given us excellent insight into what is obviously a very good HPU team. OK seems very confident about this Hope team. If Hope can win on HPU's home floor, that would be quite a statement, obviously.

When you really don't have a dog in the fight it's amazing how confident you can be. ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: golfniz1 on March 14, 2008, 12:07:29 AM
Both Hope and HPU have very difficult games before we can thank about a 1 versus 2 matchup.  Both George Fox and DeSales are playing very good basketball.  So neither Hope or HPU better look to far ahead.  That is why you play the game for you never know what may happen.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on March 14, 2008, 10:43:49 AM
Quote from: golfniz1 on March 14, 2008, 12:07:29 AM
Both Hope and HPU have very difficult games before we can thank about a 1 versus 2 matchup.  Both George Fox and DeSales are playing very good basketball.  So neither Hope or HPU better look to far ahead.  That is why you play the game for you never know what may happen.

I've always wanted a coach to come out and say things such as: "We're looking past our next opponent. As far as I'm concerned, we should deal with them pretty easily. It's the next game that worries me." Or: "We're taking it four games at a time." Or: "We've got more talent. We won't have to outwork them to get this win." Or: "Jeez, these are young kids. I expect the crowd is really going to get into their heads." Or: "I don't think we'll need a total team effort for this one. Either 60% from all the starters, or 100% from two of them ought to be enough to do the trick."

You get the idea.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 14, 2008, 10:51:22 AM
HC - I love it - but at the same time wouldn't want you coaching my kid   ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on March 14, 2008, 11:10:31 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 14, 2008, 10:51:22 AM
HC - I love it - but at the same time wouldn't want you coaching my kid   ;D

When you see my list of things I would like to hear said at Presidential debates, you might not want me teaching them either.  ;) ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 14, 2008, 01:02:19 PM
Quote from: HopeConvert on March 14, 2008, 11:10:31 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 14, 2008, 10:51:22 AM
HC - I love it - but at the same time wouldn't want you coaching my kid   ;D

When you see my list of things I would like to hear said at Presidential debates, you might not want me teaching them either.  ;) ;D

I'm thinking there are only two words necessary for most Presidential debates...

"Yeah right"
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 14, 2008, 01:09:22 PM
I'm waiting for "Get bent" myself.  It could be used in any situation, doesn't even matter what the question was, it would just confirm that leadership has finally arrived to the Simpson's generation.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on March 14, 2008, 01:33:59 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 14, 2008, 01:02:19 PM
Quote from: HopeConvert on March 14, 2008, 11:10:31 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 14, 2008, 10:51:22 AM
HC - I love it - but at the same time wouldn't want you coaching my kid   ;D

When you see my list of things I would like to hear said at Presidential debates, you might not want me teaching them either.  ;) ;D

I'm thinking there are only two words necessary for most Presidential debates...

"Yeah right"

That's actually pretty close to the spirit of it...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 14, 2008, 03:34:43 PM
i hope they announce the ladys score like they did last week on the scoreboard
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mjfasteenwolf on March 14, 2008, 06:41:47 PM
tied up at the half, i'm not too worried though, Hope battled back to tie it up, got some momentum back. nobody in real foul trouble for the dutch, also gf made 4 threes to Hopes 0, I have a feeling JB and JC might hit a few in the second half, also seems Hope has been a 2nd half team most of the year anyways.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 14, 2008, 10:48:26 PM
good games girls and nice win    please win sat  i have to listen at 7.00  go girls
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 14, 2008, 10:59:16 PM
I'm kind of surprised nobody's posted anything more...

Hope wins 47-40 in a game that came down to the last few minutes.  One could also say that it came down to a substantial reversal of fortunes for Hope.  No 3s from Boles or Cowen.  In fact, they both went 0-1 from 3.   ::)  the only 2 made from 3 were from...wait for it...Carrie Snikkers!  Yes, Hope's biggest of the bigs (6'3") was 50% from 3 with a 2-4 effort from behind the arc.  Nice job!  Kind of makes up for the 6-16 effort overall.   :P

Okay, yes, I'm being a little harsh.  I'm sorry.  But it got pretty frustrating hearing my Dad's reports as he listened in while we were watching Kent Raymond from Wheaton score as much as Hope's whole women's team.  (You can prob. read about that on the CCIW men's board if you want the details.)  At one point he reported that some 6'1" GF big had blocked all of Carrie's shots up to then.  Hard to believe, but looking at their website earlier this week, I knew Hope would be challenged down low.  It appeared to me their post players would be about the most athletic bunch Hope had seen all season, and I figured they would do well against our quite athletic posts.

In the end, it came down to a couple of key 3s from Carrie, a deuce from Julie Henderson, and a great defensive effort from the team.  And that's what it's about: team.  Kudos to Carrie for her 16 points, 4 boards, 3 steals and 1 block in 18 minutes.  Kudos to Philana Greene for her 13 points, 7 boards, and 1 steal in 36 minutes.  But what I'm really impressed with this season is this teams ability to play as a team, battle through to the very end, and figure out how to come out with the win.

Get your rest tonight ladies.  You're going to need everything you've got again tomorrow night.  And as you head off to sleep, remember this: you've got thousands of fans supporting you from afar who believe in you!  Bring it home, ladies!  Bring it home!

(And with that, I log my 200th post.  I have the POWER!)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mjfasteenwolf on March 15, 2008, 12:12:57 AM
Quote from: mjfasteenwolf on March 14, 2008, 06:41:47 PM
tied up at the half, i'm not too worried though, Hope battled back to tie it up, got some momentum back. nobody in real foul trouble for the dutch, also gf made 4 threes to Hopes 0, I have a feeling JB and JC might hit a few in the second half, also seems Hope has been a 2nd half team most of the year anyways.

I'm hoping that my predictions about JB and JC were meant for tomorrow night, since they didn't come true in the second half. Can't wait to listen to the game tomorrow, anybody know what station it will be on, since the womens and mens games will overlap? Best of luck to both Hope teams tomorrow!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 15, 2008, 01:19:53 AM
Good thing the women don't have to face Kent Raymond tomorrow: Hope 47, Raymond 47 (and surely someone else would score a point :o)!

Good luck to the Lady Dutch; as a Michigander but a CCIW guy, I plead neutrality for the Dutchmen. ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 15, 2008, 08:54:50 AM
go gets them  tonight   girls
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 15, 2008, 09:55:48 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 15, 2008, 01:19:53 AM
Good thing the women don't have to face Kent Raymond tomorrow: Hope 47, Raymond 47 (and surely someone else would score a point :o)!

Good luck to the Lady Dutch; as a Michigander but a CCIW guy, I plead neutrality for the Dutchmen. ;D

Not sure Raymond could score 47 against the Hope women, they play a lot better defense than Whitworth did.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 15, 2008, 10:29:41 AM
I think one really has to credit the GF coach for having put together a very good game plan to use against Hope.  It also helps that he had some very athletic young women to implment the plan.  The radio guy on several occassions mentioned how Hope's guards seemed to be getting frustrated, and the lack of open looks meant someone was playing good D.  A bit nervous to listen to a game such as yesterday, but perhaps it may prove helpful to Hope tonight in that they know they must play the entire 40 minutes. :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 15, 2008, 10:49:32 AM
Quote from: oldknight on October 30, 2007, 05:24:09 PM
Quote from: WWWRHH on October 30, 2007, 10:15:10 AM
  Is this the year the Britons could break the Hope / Calvin duopoly?

No, Hope will win the conference this year, probably quite comfortably.

Quote from: sac on October 30, 2007, 03:19:39 PM


Hope is going for its 10th consecutive 20 win season, that would be an outstanding accomplishment.

20 wins is a given. The only question I have is "Can the Lady Dutch win 30?"
 

Well, at least that question has been answered now.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hwbb on March 15, 2008, 11:59:48 AM
This brief look-ahead to tonight's game, based on conversations with people who are in Brownwood. Howard Payne is--no surprise here--the real deal. Strong guard play--Meia Daniels is very fast, quick release on the jumper, and strong defensively. A lot of size inside (both height and bulk), and one of the bigs can also step out and shoot the three. Taking advantage of a huge height advantage, HPU was not severely tested last night, and thus their starters could limit second-half playing time--an advantage for them since they apparently don't go as deep as Hope. The atmosphere inside the Brownwood Colisseum was "as loud as any Hope-Calvin game." It's kinda us against the world--but I sure like the fifteen that make up "us" and the coaches who guide them. Go Hope.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 15, 2008, 01:01:47 PM
I brought this up earlier, here and on the men's page.  Hope's teams are playing as teams...no superstar performances night in and night out by one or two.  That's what has gotten the this far, and I think what will take them both to the Final Four.  To wit: only twice this year have Hope's women been led by someone with 20 or more points.  Both times Jordyn Boles.  On 1/26 at St Mary's with 27.  They won by 9.  And on 3/20 at BW with 20.  They won by 20.

It hasn't been singular performances that have gotten them this far, and I believe that gives them an edge tonight.  I HOPE I'm right.

GO HOPE!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 15, 2008, 01:28:17 PM
Just read this on another page and clears up some questions I had last night listening to the game:

Quote from: Rick Akins on March 15, 2008, 12:04:19 PM
...but maybe some of their struggles last night had to do with playing the #1 defense (by points allowed) in D3.

I did not know that... Good to know it wasn't just an "off night".
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: MIdoubleA on March 15, 2008, 02:50:58 PM
A collection of random thoughts and discussions at the breakfast table today. Feel free to respond to or answer any of them.



* Is this the national championship game tonight?
* Why are these two paired so "early?"
* Is the pairing/location "fair" to everyone?
* GVSU is hosting 4 games today. Why can't Division 3 teams do the same thing?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 15, 2008, 04:06:26 PM
4 more hours towards the start of the girls good luck
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 15, 2008, 09:41:18 PM
Has any individual had this good of a game against Hope... Good grief! 37 points  :o
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 15, 2008, 09:53:12 PM
nice job on a great seasson girls only 1 losse that is a great seasson to bad you could not have played them next week in the final 4  have a safe trip home
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeCSO on March 15, 2008, 09:58:14 PM
Keep your heads up high ladies.  We are all very proud of you.  You are the best examples of what a Student/Athlete should be. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 15, 2008, 10:01:52 PM
Outrebounding HPU 53 to 33, and scoring more baskets, is an indication of the strength of Hope's team.  One wonders what the NCAA was thinking in matching these two teams up in the same sectional . . . and what more Coach Morehouse and his team must do next year to earn a chance to host some games.  What a fitting national championship game this would have been.

Nevertheless, what an absolutely terrific season these women have had.  I love the way they push the ball up the court.  And I love their infectuous joy and obvious affection for each other.  They've made me a fan.  And with all the great talent returning next year I'm sure I'm not the only one looking forward to more good things to come.

Thank you Jordan/Julie/Lindsay/Stacey for a great four years!

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dballa on March 15, 2008, 11:51:52 PM
To the Hope fans and players, it was a pleasure watching your team out on the court tonight as well as Friday night.  They are an amazing group of young ladies.  This game should have been played at the Final Four.  It was absolutely worthy of being on tv instead of a lot of DI or DII games.

Boles lit us up from behind the arc and Green is so smooth with the ball and such a great defender.

I know you are as proud of your ladies as we are of ours.  I just hope the games next weekend are as exciting as the games have been this weekend in Brownwood.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: BrainOfJ. on March 16, 2008, 01:14:37 AM
why the NCAA  would put the 2 undefeated teams in the same bracket to meet up in the elite eight is beyond me. These two should have met up in Holland next Saturday. Here's to great decision making!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 16, 2008, 05:26:01 AM
Quote from: pointlem on March 15, 2008, 10:01:52 PM
Outrebounding HPU 53 to 33, and scoring more baskets, is an indication of the strength of Hope's team.  One wonders what the NCAA was thinking in matching these two teams up in the same sectional . . . and what more Coach Morehouse and his team must do next year to earn a chance to host some games.  What a fitting national championship game this would have been.
Good game and travel safely Hope.

To answer the question, the Selection committee had Hope #3 in the last Regional Ranking that was published.  Thomas More and DePauw did nothing in the regular season to suggest that the order changed on the selection weekend.

As an ASC fan, I understand geographic isolation.  But, the Hope games versus Oberlin, Defiance, Wheaton IL, North Central and (NAIA) Marygrove were not as beneficial to Hope's cause as Thomas More's games versus Ohio Wesleyan, Wilmington, DePauw, Centre and Wittenberg.  The same benefits can be said for DePauw's games versus IWU, Thomas More, Ohio Northern and Wittenberg.  These games are primary criteria and the equal of the (undefeated) in-region record in the eyes of the commitee!

I understand how hard it is too schedule in-region non-conference games when you are on top.  McMurry's head coach, Veronica Snow, was lamenting that tonight for 2008-09, and she loses the top 3 scorers and a solid defender.

Good luck next season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 16, 2008, 08:10:05 AM
Would love to hear some eye witness reports from last night - specifically Hope getting 10 more fouls called on them, which of course lead to the huge disparity in FT shots, and the game
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: JACKET84 on March 16, 2008, 10:12:46 AM
HPU usually goes to the free throw line more, due to the fact that they drive to the basket more than other teams, and dare you to stop them.  I was at the game.  I didn't always agree with the officials, but I thought they were consistant for both teams.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mcmfan on March 16, 2008, 10:17:17 AM
Flying Dutch Fan,

You probably want an eye witness Hope fan, but I'm from McMurry, who got beaten four times this season against HPU and was the only team in our conference to beat them last year.  I went to the game and was really impressed with the Hope team -- a class act.  Talked to some Hope fans, and they were great, too.  But back to your question.  Drawing fouls and cleaning up on free throws has been has been a characteristic of HPU all season, and the free throw margin has decided a number of close games for them.  They have been able to out free throw opponents both on their home court, which you might expect, but also on their opponents' courts.  It was clearly the edge against Hope last night, along with Hope's inability to shut down HPU's Meia Daniels.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hwbb on March 16, 2008, 01:59:37 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 16, 2008, 05:26:01 AM
Quote from: pointlem on March 15, 2008, 10:01:52 PM
Outrebounding HPU 53 to 33, and scoring more baskets, is an indication of the strength of Hope's team.  One wonders what the NCAA was thinking in matching these two teams up in the same sectional . . . and what more Coach Morehouse and his team must do next year to earn a chance to host some games.  What a fitting national championship game this would have been.
Good game and travel safely Hope.

To answer the question, the Selection committee had Hope #3 in the last Regional Ranking that was published.  Thomas More and DePauw did nothing in the regular season to suggest that the order changed on the selection weekend.

As an ASC fan, I understand geographic isolation.  But, the Hope games versus Oberlin, Defiance, Wheaton IL, North Central and (NAIA) Marygrove were not as beneficial to Hope's cause as Thomas More's games versus Ohio Wesleyan, Wilmington, DePauw, Centre and Wittenberg.  The same benefits can be said for DePauw's games versus IWU, Thomas More, Ohio Northern and Wittenberg.  These games are primary criteria and the equal of the (undefeated) in-region record in the eyes of the commitee!

I understand how hard it is too schedule in-region non-conference games when you are on top.  McMurry's head coach, Veronica Snow, was lamenting that tonight for 2008-09, and she loses the top 3 scorers and a solid defender.

Good luck next season.
Mr. Turner (or Mr. Coleman, who watches this board), as a d3hoops veteran, perhaps you can put some further meaning behind your comments. We all know Hope was ranked #1 by d3hoops and the USA Today Poll, Howard Payne #2. But the NCAA placed undefeated Hope only third in their region, behind Thomas More (also undefeated, therefore certainly understandable) and 3-loss DePauw. Since what the NCAA thinks is what finally matters for bracketing and home court, does this mean that the d3hoops poll is essentially an inconsequential beauty contest to which we should pay little attention? Or are the criteria so absolutely different between d3hoops and the NCAA that the poll is finally an unreliable predictor, unlike most other polls we see? It's that disconnect, between poll position and NCAA decision, that has most Hope supporters still wondering why this game had to be played when it did and why Hope was not deserving to host. (The latter question does not imply that HPU was somehow an undeserving host. They were deserving. Both were.) Admittedly biased, I can't say I've seen an explanation to this disconnect that seems satisfying.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 16, 2008, 02:32:00 PM
Quote from: oldknight on March 12, 2008, 01:40:16 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 12, 2008, 09:55:54 AM
Quote from: realist on March 12, 2008, 09:46:54 AM
Personally I think Hope has the depth to be able to handle HPU, should that game come to pass.  The point the Schreiner guy was making is HPU has had considerable success in forcing other team's ball handlers into making bad decisons.   On several occassions posters have mentioned the turnovers the Hope team has had in some games.    His feeling was turnovers could very well be a telling factor should the two teams meet.

It is true that Hope turns the ball over at a fairly high rate - averaging 18.5 turnovers per game.  A big reason for this is how hard they push the ball up the court. 

Another factor to look at is that although they average 18.5 turnovers per game, they are forcing their opponents to turn the ball over 23.9 times per game.  Hope is also averaging 14.4 steals per game.

That's a good analysis by FDF. Hope's women average nearly 65 shots taken per game. That's a lot of shots, and a lot of possessions per game.  HPU has played the same number of games as Hope and has taken 265 fewer shots than has Hope so the two teams obviously play at different paces. By contrast, Calvin's women average 53 shots per game and Hope's men (whose offense I consider to be pretty high octane) average about 60 shots. IMO, Hope's women do a good job of taking care of the ball and if any opponent thinks they have an advantage in the TO department I think they will find that assumption to be quite mistaken.
To answer the question about drawing fouls, a field goal attempt is not recorded when the offensive player has drawn a foul going to the basket as McMurry Head Coach Veronica Snow predicted would be HPU's game plan.  (Coach Snow's assessment is in an Abilene Reporter-News interview (http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=1526.3225).  They drive the basket and dare you to foul them.)

Hope shot 265 more FGA's this season (or about 9 per game).  Let's simplify where 265 more FGA's in Hope's season came from over HPU's FGA numbers.  Let's not include the permutations of steals, turnovers, "charges", etc.

HPU committed 421 Personal fouls to their opponents 566.  HPU drew 145 more fouls from their opponents. 

Let's imagine that Hope has 145 possessions that did not end in the foul that HPU would have drawn as a foul.  If Hope misses 56% of their FGA's, then Hope gets 38% of the rebounds as offensive rebounds. 145 x .56 = 81 new possessions.  If they miss 56% of the put-backs and repeat attempts on those 81 new possessions, then they have 45 "new possessions".  (81 x .56 = 45).  If Hope misses 56% of the shots and gets the offensive rebound 38% of the time, that is an extra 10 shots on "putbacks".

145 + 45 + 10 = 200 possessions that are recorded by Hope instead the number resulting by having drawn a foul, as HPU does.  I think that the different styles of play are reflected in the statistics.  The difference of 65 possessions over a 30 game season (essentially one per half) can be attributed to tempo alone.

The Hope possession ends in a FG or a defensive rebound.  HPU's possession is reflected on the FT line.

Thanks for the chance to explain.  That HPU-Hope game was typical HPU, as we McMurry fans saw four times this year!  >:(  ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 16, 2008, 02:44:55 PM
Quote from: Hwbb on March 16, 2008, 01:59:37 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 16, 2008, 05:26:01 AM
Quote from: pointlem on March 15, 2008, 10:01:52 PM
Outrebounding HPU 53 to 33, and scoring more baskets, is an indication of the strength of Hope's team.  One wonders what the NCAA was thinking in matching these two teams up in the same sectional . . . and what more Coach Morehouse and his team must do next year to earn a chance to host some games.  What a fitting national championship game this would have been.
Good game and travel safely Hope.

To answer the question, the Selection committee had Hope #3 in the last Regional Ranking that was published.  Thomas More and DePauw did nothing in the regular season to suggest that the order changed on the selection weekend.

As an ASC fan, I understand geographic isolation.  But, the Hope games versus Oberlin, Defiance, Wheaton IL, North Central and (NAIA) Marygrove were not as beneficial to Hope's cause as Thomas More's games versus Ohio Wesleyan, Wilmington, DePauw, Centre and Wittenberg.  The same benefits can be said for DePauw's games versus IWU, Thomas More, Ohio Northern and Wittenberg.  These games are primary criteria and the equal of the (undefeated) in-region record in the eyes of the commitee!

I understand how hard it is too schedule in-region non-conference games when you are on top.  McMurry's head coach, Veronica Snow, was lamenting that tonight for 2008-09, and she loses the top 3 scorers and a solid defender.

Good luck next season.
Mr. Turner (or Mr. Coleman, who watches this board), as a d3hoops veteran, perhaps you can put some further meaning behind your comments. We all know Hope was ranked #1 by d3hoops and the USA Today Poll, Howard Payne #2. But the NCAA placed undefeated Hope only third in their region, behind Thomas More (also undefeated, therefore certainly understandable) and 3-loss DePauw. Since what the NCAA thinks is what finally matters for bracketing and home court, does this mean that the d3hoops poll is essentially an inconsequential beauty contest to which we should pay little attention?

Well...kinda  :-\  (Parenthetically, I am not a voter on the D3hoops.com poll, but I think that the D3Hoops.com poll gives us fans something to discuss in the 11 weeks of the season prior to the release of the first Regional Rankings.)


Or are the criteria so absolutely different between d3hoops and the NCAA that the poll is finally an unreliable predictor, unlike most other polls we see?

Yes, they are measuring different aspects of the season.  The Handbook is very clear (by the absence of any inclusion of such polls) that any "commercial power rating" or poll ("Massey", the ABCA, or D3Hoops.com) has no bearing the the seeding and tournament process.   Please read the Handbook for all matters concerning the tournament and the way that the NCAA (D-III) member institutions have determined that the Women's Basketball Championship shall be determined.

It's that disconnect, between poll position and NCAA decision, that has most Hope supporters still wondering why this game had to be played when it did and why Hope was not deserving to host. (The latter question does not imply that HPU was somehow an undeserving host. They were deserving. Both were.) Admittedly biased, I can't say I've seen an explanation to this disconnect that seems satisfying.
2008 Handbook (http://www.ncaa.org/library/handbooks/basketball/2008/2008_d3_w_basketball_handbook.pdf)

I hope this clarifies the matter.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hwbb on March 16, 2008, 03:18:45 PM

2008 Handbook (http://www.ncaa.org/library/handbooks/basketball/2008/2008_d3_w_basketball_handbook.pdf)

I hope this clarifies the matter.
[/quote]
Thank you, Mr. Turner. That was helpful. I can't say that I'm fully convinced that a group of young women who do everything their schedule asks of them still hasn't done enough, no matter what what conference they're in or who they play non-conference. But that's me. I'll not raise this subject again.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 16, 2008, 03:49:58 PM
Quote from: Hwbb on March 16, 2008, 01:59:37 PM
Since what the NCAA thinks is what finally matters for bracketing and home court, does this mean that the d3hoops poll is essentially an inconsequential beauty contest to which we should pay little attention?

It depends -- do you want to know who the best teams are? Look at our poll. Do you want to know how the NCAA will bracket teams? Look at the regional poll.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 16, 2008, 04:04:42 PM
i see the girls are back hope they had a nice trip today
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mcmfan on March 16, 2008, 06:02:07 PM
Flying Dutch Fan,

A follow-up on my earlier post, about the discrepancy in fouls between Hope and HPU.  Your feelng seems to be that things would have been different in a different place.  HPU's secret weapon may be their ability to draw fouls, or maybe, to put it differently, to get the refs to notice the fouls and to call them -- and not just on their home court.  On March 7, 2008, we at McMurry played HPU on our court.  Here are the free throw figures:
McMurry: 15
HPU: 31
We're used to this.  You guys kept them off their routine during the first half of the game, when the fouls were fairly even, but it got out of hand in the second half.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: golfniz1 on March 16, 2008, 08:35:13 PM
I would like to apologize to sac and Carrie Snickkers for the comments I made in a previous post. My choice of words may have been wrong and for that I do big time apologize to these 2 people and I hope you except my apology.  Now on to my take Hope has a very good basketball team and are very well coached. Those girls played hard and got alot of cujos from this HPU fan.  Hope will for sure be back and as strong as ever next year. So girls keep your head up and good luck.
If I mispelled Carries last name I apologize for that too.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hoper Upper on March 16, 2008, 10:23:52 PM
On a neutral court, Hope wins.  If HPU played at Hope College, they would lose by 10. 

The HPU players were "high fiving" the refs before the game.  Ridiculous...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 16, 2008, 10:29:55 PM
Quote from: Hoper Upper on March 16, 2008, 10:23:52 PM
On a neutral court, Hope wins.  If HPU played at Hope College, they would lose by 10. 

The HPU players were "high fiving" the refs before the game.  Ridiculous...
No, that was not a "high five".

The "knuckles to knuckles" greeting is used by players in this part of the country as a "handshake" at many levels in the pre-game introductions, especially where you have three quick "handshakes" with the referees.

:)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dballa on March 16, 2008, 10:32:20 PM
The HPU players ALWAYS go up to the refs before the game when their name is announced.  Actually almost every team in the ASC does that as an act of sportsmanship towards the officials.  All coaches get a handshake from the officials before the game, why can't the players??  Your statement implies they did it to gain favoritism amongst the officials.  That is a ridiculous statement on your part.

When HPU invited Hope to the center of the court to say "The Lord's Prayer", was that to rub in the win too?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 16, 2008, 10:35:29 PM
Quote from: Hoper Upper on March 16, 2008, 10:23:52 PM
On a neutral court, Hope wins.  If HPU played at Hope College, they would lose by 10.  ...
I am glad that you have quantified the home court advantage for Hope at +7.5 points.

That is a useful statistic going forward.  I will submit the 7.5 point Hope home court advantage to the Calvin and Albion fans for their consideration.   (It works for men and women, right?) :D   ;)

Actually Massey's MOV has not been updated to reflect Saturday's game, and predicts #1 HPU 64.27, #2 Hope 58.78.

I think that Massey hit it.

Massey MOV (http://www.mratings.com/rate.php?lg=cbw&sub=III&mid=1)


Aoff minus Bdef plus (Ah + Bh )/ 4 = A score

HPU = 74.82 - 12.83 = 62.99 + {(3.82 + 1.49)/4} = 64.27

Boff minus Adef minus (Ah + Bh)/4  = B score

Hope= 77.44 - 17.38 = 60.06 - {(3.82 + 1.49)/4} = 58.78
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: BBenthusiast on March 16, 2008, 11:37:46 PM
The following stats are official percentages from the ASC website.  HPU's 3 top scorers have made and shot more FT than any other players in the conference.  The team stats show that HPU has made more than any other team has shot.  Hope this helps with the speculation.

FREE THROW PCT (Min. 2.0 made per game)
## Player-Team               Cl  G   FTM   FTA   Pct
----------------------------------------------------
1.Stacey Blalock-HPU....... SR 31   139   165  .842
2.Marci Trogus-UTT.........       26    64    76  .842
3.Courtney Davis-SU........     25    89   107  .832
4.Melissa Thomas-UTT.......    26    66    80  .825
5.Meia Daniels-HPU......... SR 31   138   170  .812
6.Brittany Burton-TLU...... FR 25    51    63  .810
7.Rosemary Green-MC......JR 26    75    94  .798
8.Janice Mitchell-SRSU..... SR 24    60    76  .789
9.Lindsay Eaton-UTT........    26    80   102  .784
10.Kimberly Hoffman-HPU. SR 31   130   166  .783
11.Ericka Baker-UTD......... SR 25    88   115  .765
12.Denee McKay-LETU.........    25    65    85  .765
13.Monica Enriquez-SU.......    24    86   113  .761
14.Kristen Baskin-LETU......     21    88   116  .759
15.Anesia McBride-MC....... JR 26    70    93  .753

FREE THROW PERCENTAGES
## Team                  G    FTM   FTA   Pct
---------------------------------------------
1.Howard Payne........ 31    633   838  .755
2.Schreiner........... 25        461   634  .727
3.Mississippi College. 26    372   516  .721
4.Texas-Tyler......... 26       450   626  .719
5.Texas-Dallas........ 26      328   473  .693
6.Ozarks.............. 25        313   465  .673
7.Sul Ross State...... 24    314   467  .672
8.Mary Hardin-Baylor.. 27  380   568  .669
9.LeTourneau.......... 25    356   537  .663
10.Louisiana College... 26  355   544  .653
11.East Texas Baptist.. 24  276   425  .649
12.Hardin-Simmons...... 27  326   503  .648
13.McMurry............. 30       368   570  .646
14.Concordia Texas..... 25  370   574  .645
15.Texas Lutheran...... 25  221   346  .639


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 17, 2008, 08:54:59 AM
Quote from: dballa on March 16, 2008, 10:32:20 PM
The HPU players ALWAYS go up to the refs before the game when their name is announced.  Actually almost every team in the ASC does that as an act of sportsmanship towards the officials.  All coaches get a handshake from the officials before the game, why can't the players??  Your statement implies they did it to gain favoritism amongst the officials.  That is a ridiculous statement on your part.

It's not ridiculous if you've never seen it before.  Any player who did that in the MIAA might be seen as seeking to get an advantage.  Maybe a bad assumption on the part of Hoper Upper, but no reason for you to over-react. 

Quote from: dballa on March 16, 2008, 10:32:20 PM
When HPU invited Hope to the center of the court to say "The Lord's Prayer", was that to rub in the win too?

WOW - if this is the kind of response you provide after winning, we better get some extra security lined up for the final four, just in case you lose.  That invitation was a class act by HPU, too bad you can't follow suit.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dballa on March 17, 2008, 09:14:22 AM
I know it's a class act on a part of the HPU players, they do it every game.  But to try to imply that they wanted to gain some kind of favoritism from the refs is worth commenting on.

If you look at the previous page on here I did comment on the Hope players and not in a negative manner.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: JACKET84 on March 17, 2008, 09:51:58 AM
I didn't know if anybody else saw the same thing I did, but I was surprised at the language the Hope head coach used towards the end of the game.  Also, did you see the way he greeted Coach Kielsmeier, and the way he attempted to run after the refs? The assistant coach had to restrain him.   Did his emotion get the best of him?  It just looked like he wasn't setting a good example to his players in a loss. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 17, 2008, 09:54:20 AM
Time for all of you HPU folks to just go away. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hoper Upper on March 17, 2008, 10:06:05 AM
BBEnthusiast, I appreciate you providing the stats, because they prove clearly how bad the away teams got jobbed in Texas.   The stats prove that HPU was "given" the games by the refs. 

HPU averaged 15 fouls per game (433/29) during the regular season.

Yet, playing Hope, a team that is much better than any they played during the year, HPU  suddenly commits only 6 fouls.

Further, this whole "HPU draws fouls" is simply a myth.  Go back and redo the numbers and compare free throws per game.  (Note that HPU played more games than anyone else).  You'll find they shot more than their opponents on average, but only about 7 more...which is easily explained by the strategy of "fouling at the end of the game when you are losing".

In any event, HPU better not clean off a place for the trophy just yet.  We'll sit what happens when the refs call the game fairly.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: David Collinge on March 17, 2008, 10:24:55 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 17, 2008, 08:54:59 AM
Quote from: dballa on March 16, 2008, 10:32:20 PM
The HPU players ALWAYS go up to the refs before the game when their name is announced.  Actually almost every team in the ASC does that as an act of sportsmanship towards the officials.  All coaches get a handshake from the officials before the game, why can't the players??  Your statement implies they did it to gain favoritism amongst the officials.  That is a ridiculous statement on your part.

It's not ridiculous if you've never seen it before.  Any player who did that in the MIAA might be seen as seeking to get an advantage.  Maybe a bad assumption on the part of Hoper Upper, but no reason for you to over-react. 

I'd never seen it before, and I thought it was a great idea.  As an entirely impartial observer in this, I agree with dballa's take.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hwbb on March 17, 2008, 11:20:52 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 16, 2008, 10:35:29 PM
Quote from: Hoper Upper on March 16, 2008, 10:23:52 PM
On a neutral court, Hope wins.  If HPU played at Hope College, they would lose by 10.  ...
I am glad that you have quantified the home court advantage for Hope at +7.5 points.

That is a useful statistic going forward.  I will submit the 7.5 point Hope home court advantage to the Calvin and Albion fans for their consideration.   (It works for men and women, right?) :D   ;)

Actually Massey's MOV has not been updated to reflect Saturday's game, and predicts #1 HPU 64.27, #2 Hope 58.78.

I think that Massey hit it.

Massey MOV (http://www.mratings.com/rate.php?lg=cbw&sub=III&mid=1)


Aoff minus Bdef plus (Ah + Bh )/ 4 = A score

HPU = 74.82 - 12.83 = 62.99 + {(3.82 + 1.49)/4} = 64.27

Boff minus Adef minus (Ah + Bh)/4  = B score

Hope= 77.44 - 17.38 = 60.06 - {(3.82 + 1.49)/4} = 58.78
Mr. Turner, if you believe Massey "hit it" on the HPU - Hope comparison, is it accurate to assume you think Massey's ratings are generally correct overall. If so, then might you also agree that the continuing questions about the NCAA, its criteria for evaluating teams, and its overall stewardship of the D3 tournament are legit (nonwithstanding the NCAA rulebook about ignoring other polls, as you pointed out previously). According to Massey, HPU is better than Hope, and they proved it on the court. Okay. But also according to Massey, #1 and #2 played too early (been debated extensively already); 9 of the top 12 teams were on the same half of the bracket; Hope and UW-Whitewater each had to play three top-12 teams, and Hope all on the road; HPU just one, and neither Oglethorpe nor Messiah played any top-12 teams (and that had nothing to do with Thomas More's upset loss). You look at these numbers for a single game to support your view that HPU was and is the better team. Fair enough--they did win the game, after all. But can you also understand why some others can also look at these same numbers and continue to ask, something's just not right. Or fair. Which, of course, life isn't either. Besy wishes to HPU this weekend.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 17, 2008, 11:49:56 AM
Quote from: David Collinge on March 17, 2008, 10:24:55 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 17, 2008, 08:54:59 AM
Quote from: dballa on March 16, 2008, 10:32:20 PM
The HPU players ALWAYS go up to the refs before the game when their name is announced.  Actually almost every team in the ASC does that as an act of sportsmanship towards the officials.  All coaches get a handshake from the officials before the game, why can't the players??  Your statement implies they did it to gain favoritism amongst the officials.  That is a ridiculous statement on your part.

It's not ridiculous if you've never seen it before.  Any player who did that in the MIAA might be seen as seeking to get an advantage.  Maybe a bad assumption on the part of Hoper Upper, but no reason for you to over-react. 

I'd never seen it before, and I thought it was a great idea.  As an entirely impartial observer in this, I agree with dballa's take.

I agree it's a great idea - but the point is that is was something never seen before, and so it might have appeared to be something it wasn't.  Its very easy for someone to be mistaken about the intentions of something that they have never witnessed before.  dballa's simple explanation was fine - but then why the hostility about the prayer after the game?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dballa on March 17, 2008, 12:12:31 PM
There was no hostility, just making a point.  I certainly could understand the question being asked as to why the players went up to the refs if it was never witnessed before, but the way it was said implied the HPU players did it to gain favoritism with the officials.


With that being said I won't discuss it any further.  I know Hope College will put on a first rate Final Four and I hope the games will be just as fun and exciting as they were this past weekend.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 17, 2008, 12:23:05 PM
i have extra tickets for the girls game for friday and sat if anyone wants them can email me please   doug_tysse@yahoo.com

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 17, 2008, 12:31:41 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 17, 2008, 09:54:20 AM
Time for all of you HPU folks to just go away. 

Because they brought up a legitimate question about the postgame reaction? I've heard about it from a neutral party who was present.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 17, 2008, 01:21:03 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 17, 2008, 12:31:41 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 17, 2008, 09:54:20 AM
Time for all of you HPU folks to just go away. 

Because they brought up a legitimate question about the postgame reaction? I've heard about it from a neutral party who was present.
I considered the post by JACKET84 to be nothing more than inflamatory and bordering on rubbing salt in the wound.  Knowing Coach Morehouse, I seriously doubt the truth of any of that post.  Maybe I'm wrong, and it really happened - but if it did, how would anyone who posts here be able to answer that question? 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 17, 2008, 01:35:13 PM
Nice article about Hope's 4 Seniors

http://hollandsentinel.com/stories/031708/localsports_20080317033.shtml
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: JACKET84 on March 17, 2008, 02:14:06 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 17, 2008, 01:21:03 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 17, 2008, 12:31:41 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 17, 2008, 09:54:20 AM
Time for all of you HPU folks to just go away. 

Because they brought up a legitimate question about the postgame reaction? I've heard about it from a neutral party who was present.
I considered the post by JACKET84 to be nothing more than inflamatory and bordering on rubbing salt in the wound.  Knowing Coach Morehouse, I seriously doubt the truth of any of that post.  Maybe I'm wrong, and it really happened - but if it did, how would anyone who posts here be able to answer that question? 

I wasn't "rubbing salt in the wound".  I just know what I (and others around me) witnessed.  I thought he was a little unprofessional.  Every coach could take a lesson from the George Fox coach.  I don't know anything about the man, other than what I saw Friday night.  He looked like a class act to me.  I'm hoping that Hope will now help cheer for HPU in the finals, just like McMurry did.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 17, 2008, 02:16:53 PM
Quote from: Hwbb on March 17, 2008, 11:20:52 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 16, 2008, 10:35:29 PM
Quote from: Hoper Upper on March 16, 2008, 10:23:52 PM
On a neutral court, Hope wins.  If HPU played at Hope College, they would lose by 10.  ...
I am glad that you have quantified the home court advantage for Hope at +7.5 points.

That is a useful statistic going forward.  I will submit the 7.5 point Hope home court advantage to the Calvin and Albion fans for their consideration.   (It works for men and women, right?) :D   ;)

Actually Massey's MOV has not been updated to reflect Saturday's game, and predicts #1 HPU 64.27, #2 Hope 58.78.

I think that Massey hit it.

Massey MOV (http://www.mratings.com/rate.php?lg=cbw&sub=III&mid=1)


Aoff minus Bdef plus (Ah + Bh )/ 4 = A score

HPU = 74.82 - 12.83 = 62.99 + {(3.82 + 1.49)/4} = 64.27

Boff minus Adef minus (Ah + Bh)/4  = B score

Hope= 77.44 - 17.38 = 60.06 - {(3.82 + 1.49)/4} = 58.78
Mr. Turner, if you believe Massey "hit it" on the HPU - Hope comparison, is it accurate to assume you think Massey's ratings are generally correct overall. If so, then might you also agree that the continuing questions about the NCAA, its criteria for evaluating teams, and its overall stewardship of the D3 tournament are legit (nonwithstanding the NCAA rulebook about ignoring other polls, as you pointed out previously). According to Massey, HPU is better than Hope, and they proved it on the court. Okay. But also according to Massey, #1 and #2 played too early (been debated extensively already); 9 of the top 12 teams were on the same half of the bracket; Hope and UW-Whitewater each had to play three top-12 teams, and Hope all on the road; HPU just one, and neither Oglethorpe nor Messiah played any top-12 teams (and that had nothing to do with Thomas More's upset loss). You look at these numbers for a single game to support your view that HPU was and is the better team. Fair enough--they did win the game, after all. But can you also understand why some others can also look at these same numbers and continue to ask, something's just not right. Or fair. Which, of course, life isn't either. Besy wishes to HPU this weekend.
Thanks and I will answer this evening after work.  :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 17, 2008, 03:13:40 PM
Quote from: sac on March 17, 2008, 01:35:13 PM
Nice article about Hope's 4 Seniors

http://hollandsentinel.com/stories/031708/localsports_20080317033.shtml
Indeed, an amazing four years for them (3 for Lange).  Between the four of them they are in the top ten all time in 22 career categories and 8 single season categories.  I'm working on formating the stuff I pulled together, and will post it shortly.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 17, 2008, 03:50:42 PM
Some great numbers for an amazing group of seniors.   In their four years, they were 110-10, including a national championship, and 9-2 in the NCAA tournament - all road games.  Individually, they "only" accomplished this:

Career Numbers

Jordyn Boles
Games Played      120   2nd     
Games Started      120   2nd     
Points scored      1266   3rd     
Scoring average      10.6   9th     
FG Made      445   5th     
FG Attempts      1074   3rd     
3pt Made      218   1st     
3pt Attempts      570   1st     
3pt Percentage      0.382   4th     
FT percentage      0.767   6th     
Assists      219   8th     

Julie Henderson

Games Played      122   1st     
Games Started      122   1st     
3pt Percentage      0.367   5th     
FT Percentage      0.758   8th     
Assists      444   2nd     
Blocks      32   9th     
Steals      235   1st      1.41 A/TO ratio

Lindsay Lange

FG Percentage      0.534   3rd     
Blocks      123   2nd     

Stacy Warsen

Games Played      115   5th     
FT attemps      277   9th     

Single Season Numbers

Jordyn Boles

3pt Made      65   2nd      2007-08

Jullie Henderson

Assists      119   5th      2006-07
Assists      107   8th      2005-06
Assists      106   9th      2007-08
Assists      104   10th      2004-05
Steals      78   3rd      2005-06

Lindsay Lange

FG Percentage      0.597   1st      2006-07
Blocks      53   2nd      2007-08

Stacy Warsen - didn't get into the top 10 for an single season records, but had an amazing offensive rebounding career.  She finished with a total of 441 rebounds, and 216 of those were offensive rebounds!!

<edited> Updated to include the 2 games Julie Hendereson played in 03-04 prior to her injury and being redshirted.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 17, 2008, 07:29:00 PM
Quote from: Hwbb on March 17, 2008, 11:20:52 AM

Mr. Turner, if you believe Massey "hit it" on the HPU - Hope comparison, is it accurate to assume you think Massey's ratings are generally correct overall?

I think that "Massey" MOV is probably the most accurate statistical model that I have found on the internet at measuring an RPI in D3.  The biases that are built into Massey include the schedules of D3 teams that are regionally focused and cannot be compared to the D-1 model where a national focus is present.

If so, then might you also agree that the continuing questions about the NCAA, its criteria for evaluating teams, and its overall stewardship of the D3 tournament are legit (notwithstanding the NCAA rulebook about ignoring other polls, as you pointed out previously)?

Yes, considering that the NCAA, including members institutions such as the MIAA and the ASC and at least 40 other conferences, have determined the most equitable method of measuring  the performances across all sports.  And, that this can be evaluated on a yearly basis to improve the process of access to the national championship.  I wonder how much HPU's Massey Index benefited from the 89-50 pasting that HPU laid on D-II UTexas-Permian Basin because HPU could not find another opponent.

According to Massey, HPU is better than Hope, and they proved it on the court. Okay. But also according to Massey, #1 and #2 played too early (been debated extensively already); 9 of the top 12 teams were on the same half of the bracket.

If you want to talk about geographical proximity to a McMurry alum, I will point out that D3Hoops.com #4 McMurry men (undefeated versus D3) got sent to Calvin in the Sectional Finals, along with #3 and the team that beat #2 in 2000.  I will point out that #1 South Region Seed Mississippi Men in 2007 were flown to sectional host Virginia Wesleyan for the Sectionals.  I will point out that this year's South Region #3 McMurry played ASC rival HPU in the second round (http://www.d3hoops.com/dailydose/2008/02/27/ncaas-third-regional-rankings/)!  (Kinda like Calvin and Hope playing for the fourth time in the second round of the NCAA's.)  And that is just in basketball alone.  As for Football, I can post for hours about the things that geographic proximity has done to the ASC!  ;)

Hope and UW-Whitewater each had to play three top-12 teams, and Hope all on the road; HPU just one, and neither Oglethorpe nor Messiah played any top-12 teams (and that had nothing to do with Thomas More's upset loss). You look at these numbers for a single game to support your view that HPU was and is the better team. Fair enough--they did win the game, after all. But can you also understand why some others can also look at these same numbers and continue to ask, something's just not right? Or fair? Which, of course, life isn't either.

Oh absolutely.  We fans in the ASC would love to get some bracket-equity.  We are grateful when the adjudicated criteria and bracket luck coincide for HPU as it did this year.  The 2008 Mary Hardin-Baylor (UMHB) Men's team was #1 in the South Region (26-2 overall/23-2 South Region) and gets shipped to Millsaps where they lose in the Regional Finals on an "ESPN Buzzer Beater"...  #1 in the South Region by the NCAA's own criteria and don't get to host a Regional?

Best wishes to HPU this weekend.
Thanks, and good luck in Salem.

As for Massey, I believe that teams in D3 get tied into the strength of region's ability to diversify its schedules.  The Great Lakes and the Midwest Regions seem to be able to play the Massey game well.  The OWP and the OOWP in the Southwest are especially challenged because the ASC wishes to play schedule for the ease and convenience of D3 scheduling and not gearing a schedule towards the OWP/OOWP.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: David Collinge on March 17, 2008, 09:09:50 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 17, 2008, 01:21:03 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 17, 2008, 12:31:41 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 17, 2008, 09:54:20 AM
Time for all of you HPU folks to just go away. 

Because they brought up a legitimate question about the postgame reaction? I've heard about it from a neutral party who was present.
I considered the post by JACKET84 to be nothing more than inflamatory and bordering on rubbing salt in the wound.  Knowing Coach Morehouse, I seriously doubt the truth of any of that post.  Maybe I'm wrong, and it really happened - but if it did, how would anyone who posts here be able to answer that question? 


I think it would be better to move on and celebrate what two great teams accomplished in this season. 

But since you asked, while I can't vouch for language or intentions, as I was in a seat where the Hope bench was partly obscured (and much to far away to hear anything in that loud crowd), Coach Morehouse appeared to be very, very angry at the end of the game.  Maybe 10 minutes later, when I was down at the media table, he reappeared on the court and was still exceedingly upset, although I heard no salty language and he certainly wasn't pursuing anyone.  It happens, even to even-keeled and gentlemanly fellows, a description I am told fits your coach.  (Anyone who was at the Wooster/Albion men's game a few years back saw and even more vigorous demonstration by a couple of very good and professional coaches from Wooster.)  It was an emotional time, and a very difficult loss, and who can blame the coach if his emotions got the better of him?  I certainly don't.

Shortly after the game ended (like, 1-2 minutes later), when the HPU players formed what I understand is their usual postgame prayer circle and asked the Hope players to join them (something I found far more surprising than the pregame greeting of the referees, by the way), it was Coach Morehouse who calmed down enough to instruct his team to join in, as he did himself.  You may take that for whatever it may be worth to you.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: JACKET84 on March 18, 2008, 08:26:06 AM
I couldn't ask for a better answer than that.  Thank you for your input.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mjfasteenwolf on March 18, 2008, 11:31:41 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 17, 2008, 03:50:42 PM
Some great numbers for an amazing group of seniors.   In their four years, they were 110-10, including a national championship, and 9-2 in the NCAA tournament - all road games.  Individually, they "only" accomplished this:

Career Numbers

Jordyn Boles
Games Played      120   1st      tied with Julie Henderson
Games Started      120   1st      tied with Julie Henderson
Points scored      1266   3rd     
Scoring average      10.6   9th     
FG Made      445   5th     
FG Attempts      1074   3rd     
3pt Made      218   1st     
3pt Attempts      570   1st     
3pt Percentage      0.382   4th     
FT percentage      0.767   6th     
Assists      219   8th     

Julie Henderson

Games Played      120   1st      tied with Jordyn Boles
Games Started      120   1st      tied with Jordyn Boles
3pt Percentage      0.365   5th     
FT Percentage      0.755   8th     
Assists      436   2nd     
Blocks      31   9th     
Steals      233   1st      1.40 A/TO ratio

Lindsay Lange

FG Percentage      0.534   3rd     
Blocks      123   2nd     

Stacy Warsen

Games Played      115   5th     
FT attemps      277   9th     

Single Season Numbers

Jordyn Boles

3pt Made      65   2nd      2007-08

Jullie Henderson

Assists      119   5th      2006-07
Assists      107   8th      2005-06
Assists      106   9th      2007-08
Assists      104   10th      2004-05
Steals      78   3rd      2005-06

Lindsay Lange

FG Percentage      0.597   1st      2006-07
Blocks      53   2nd      2007-08

Stacy Warsen - didn't get into the top 10 for an single season records, but had an amazing offensive rebounding career.  She finished with a total of 441 rebounds, and 216 of those were offensive rebounds!!

These are all very amazing stats, what a great group of girls, I am sure MO will miss them a lot, both and off the court. I do have to question you on one record though, according to my count Julie has 122 starts and games played if you count the two from her freshmen year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 18, 2008, 11:33:36 AM
mjf - you're right - and that explains why I had some numbers disagreeing.  I'll have to go back and get the stats from those 2 games, and then I'll update my post
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mjfasteenwolf on March 18, 2008, 12:04:00 PM
you are welcome, I wondered if that was throwing you off.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mcmfan on March 18, 2008, 02:17:32 PM
Quote from: mcmfan on March 16, 2008, 06:02:07 PM
Flying Dutch Fan,

On March 7, 2008, we at McMurry played HPU on our court.
Oops, it was on February 7, not March.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on March 18, 2008, 03:24:29 PM
I have two (2) tickets (cushy seats!) for the Friday and Saturday games.  Let me know if you'd like them!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on March 18, 2008, 03:31:26 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 17, 2008, 01:21:03 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 17, 2008, 12:31:41 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 17, 2008, 09:54:20 AM
Time for all of you HPU folks to just go away. 

Because they brought up a legitimate question about the postgame reaction? I've heard about it from a neutral party who was present.
I considered the post by JACKET84 to be nothing more than inflamatory and bordering on rubbing salt in the wound.  Knowing Coach Morehouse, I seriously doubt the truth of any of that post.  Maybe I'm wrong, and it really happened - but if it did, how would anyone who posts here be able to answer that question? 


I don't know what Jacket84's motives are, but I think it is a legit question.  If someone who was there could give some insight, or if word had come around to the Hope faithful about why he was upset, it would be of interest to the board.  Coach Moorehouse seems like a classy guy (I have never met him), from what I hear on this board.  
Quote from: hope1 on March 17, 2008, 12:23:05 PM
i have extra tickets for the girls game for friday and sat if anyone wants them can email me please   doug_tysse@yahoo.com



On a different note, do posters think there will be unused tickets (i.e., bought but not utilized) as events have unfolded.  If I were a Hopian, I would have purchased tickets to the hometown final four early, as I would have seen the women in Holland as more likely than the men in Salem.  (As I went to post I saw another offer.)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 18, 2008, 04:00:53 PM
ok that is fine i got rid of mine today 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: golfniz1 on March 18, 2008, 05:36:34 PM
For what it is worth I talked to Coach Morehouse briefly after the game and he was fine with me. I congratulated him on a fine season and how well coached his girls were.  Im sorry that some of the Hope fans are not going the game this weekend you are going to miss some good games.  I will be there can you tell me where a good place to eat is that is close to the Doubletree?  good luck to the Dutchmen this weekend in their quest for a National Championship.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 18, 2008, 09:06:32 PM
bob evans is right across the street but at the double tree they have a good place to eat to
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on March 18, 2008, 11:40:03 PM
Quote from: gohope on March 18, 2008, 03:24:29 PM
I have two (2) tickets (cushy seats!) for the Friday and Saturday games.  Let me know if you'd like them!


Mine are free for someone who wants to go!  Just trying to help with attendance numbers!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: golfniz1 on March 19, 2008, 12:06:30 AM
sac: thank you very much for the information on good places to eat in Holland I can assure you I will try a few.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 19, 2008, 09:18:12 AM
Congrats to Marcia Harris and Alison Kessler for their 1st team all region selections and to Jordyn  Boles for her 3rd team all region selection.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 19, 2008, 11:38:55 AM
I see that there are a few folks wanting to sell their tickets for this weekend.  I hope that this is not perceived as a bunch of fair-weather "homers" responding to the Hope women's loss Saturday.  Some of the posters included I know are going to Salem to cheer on the men in their bid for the walnut and bronze.  Others may have other commitments that will keep them away from the DeVos.  This is where veragrace and I find ourselves.

As much as we would like to take in some great women's basketball this weekend, we will be travelling north for a funeral on Friday, and have commited to spend time with our family on Saturday.  Bad for us, but good for someone else if they are still looking for tickets.  Both seats are in section 2 row M for both nights.  They are behind the scorer's table, at mid court, in the cushy seats.  Very desirable seats.

PM me if you would like to purchase them from us.  We will not profit from this sale.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 21, 2008, 08:52:21 AM
Congrats to Jordyn Boles - selected All-American by NAWBC.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 22, 2008, 01:12:15 AM
I saw HPU-Hope last week and HPU-UWW on the videocast.  The Flying Dutch gave HPU much more trouble than UWW.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 22, 2008, 10:51:52 AM
So the women's semis out-drew the mens (by 150 or so).  Way to go Hope & West Michigan.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 22, 2008, 11:37:29 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 22, 2008, 10:51:52 AM
So the women's semis out-drew the mens (by 150 or so).  Way to go Hope & West Michigan.
Thanks for the support!

I hope that you see some good basketball today, too.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hwbb on March 22, 2008, 10:00:47 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 22, 2008, 11:37:29 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 22, 2008, 10:51:52 AM
So the women's semis out-drew the mens (by 150 or so).  Way to go Hope & West Michigan.
Thanks for the support!

I hope that you see some good basketball today, too.

We saw excellent basketball this weekend--four teams who represented their schools and D-3 very well, including an undefeated champion. What we didn't see this weekend was the national championship game--that was played a week ago in Brownwood.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 22, 2008, 10:02:04 PM
I agree! :)

It was fun to see a great Hope team in Brownwood! ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: golfniz1 on March 24, 2008, 01:08:56 AM
I was at the Tournament this weekend in Holland Michigan and I gotta tell you Hope fans that it was the one of the best times of my life.  The people of Holland were very kind and hospitable. Hope you put on a very good tournament be very proud for it was grrrrrrreat!  All of you are very correct Hope and HPU should have been playing for the title in Holland, but thanks to some suspect bracketing they did not.  Even if they would have played in the championship at Holland I still believe HPU would have come out on top, but we will never know.  It would have been an EPIC game. Once again thank you Holland Michigan and Hope College for a very unforgettable  weekend of Womens College Basketball and fun. ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: twoblindrefs on March 24, 2008, 09:02:59 AM
I agree, great weekend in Holland...even with the snow storm....Hope was a great host, the facility is one of the best D3 facilities I have ever seen.

Congrats to Howard Payne.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Rick Akins on March 24, 2008, 09:08:28 PM
hwbb:

I agree 100%.  The real championship was now obviously last Saturday night (3/15/08) in Brownwood, Texas.  Of course, I am thrilled that our HPU girls "finished it" in such an outstanding way in Holland.  Of course, selfishly I wanted us to be national champs--and we are!!--but I also want the best team to win with no flukes and no questions.  I don't think there were many, if any, questions in Holland about that.  See my post on the top 25 multi region board for my take on the sectional.  No doubt, that was the game of the year!

As far as Holland and Hope, my wife and I loved it!  Considering the incredible disappointment of the weekend before, I felt everyone was more than gracious to us overall.  I love your town, too.  Downtown was amazing and the snow was nice too. We got there Thursday for the banquet, which was very nicely done I might add, and  all the snow was fun for us.  Maybe not quite so neat for many of the locals we talked to who seemed about ready for spring!  Also not so great for our president emeritus and  6 other alums whose plane  was diverted to Green Bay and who then drove 500+ miles across the upper peninsula to get to Holland at midnight Friday and missed the first game.  They were all there for the finals though!

Thanks again.  DeVos was a stunning venue and Hope College, Holland, Michigan, and yes, even the NCAA, made  the Final Four as special as it should be.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Sand Man on March 24, 2008, 09:39:35 PM

Thank you Hope College and Holland.  You were outstanding hosts.  I met many folks, and enjoyed visiting with all of them.  You helped make a memorable weekend into an unforgetable one!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 24, 2008, 09:53:57 PM
Final women's Top 25 posted.
http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Scratch on March 24, 2008, 11:07:48 PM
A big thank you to the folks at Hope.  The whole family had a great time at the championship games, outstanding apple turnovers, an offer to use cafeteria trays to go sledding, and liberal smiles all around.  Thanks a ton for a memorable weekend!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on March 26, 2008, 11:48:15 AM
Although the way the season ended still stings, I guess it is time to move on.

It will be hard to adjust to the loss of Jordan, Julie, Lindsay and Stacy.  They have contributed so much to the team's success over the last four years.  It will be an adjustment watching games without these outstanding young women representing the Dutch.

Losing four starters from a team that came within a couple of minutes and a couple of breaks of going to the final four would be devastating to most programs.  Fortunately, Hope is not most programs and will not have to go through a long rebuilding process.

I was finally able to overcome the pain and review the season ending stats.

The Dutch return:

3 of the top 5 scorers and 7 of the top 10,

The top two, and 3 of the top 4, rebounders,

4 of the top 5 shot blockers, and

The top two, and 3 of the top 5, free throws taken (and made).

Coach Morehouse can choose a starting five from Green, Snikkers, Knox, O'Hare, Kopke and Cowen and still have six players with real varsity playing time to draw on - including DeKuiper, Bruinsma and Geers.

With the development of some of the younger players and a couple of good recruits next year should be fun.

I am going out on a limb and predicting  a top 10 pre-season rank, another conference championship and a deep playoff run  :).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 26, 2008, 12:10:05 PM
yes they will miss the seniors they have couple of other good players coming up
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 29, 2008, 02:48:35 PM
Here, for the record, is an article in Holland, Michigan's paper that winsomely expresses what many folks here were thinking (albeit mindful that the well-meaning NCAA selection committee volunteers are probably always destined to leave some folks unhappy).

NCAA needs to change way it determines tournament schedule

By JEFFREY JAPINGA

The powers that be in the NCAA got to experience this past weekend what we've known all along -- that the Division III women's basketball Final Four at DeVos Fieldhouse would be a first-class event.

And why wouldn't it be? Hope College, its host, and the college's athletic department, consistently do things well and do things the right way. That's in part why Hope basketball has developed such a strong and loyal following, and why this Final Four sold more advance tickets than any other in D-III women's basketball tournament in history.

But if people know a good thing when they see it -- and hats off to Hope and its volunteers for a job well done -- they also know when something isn't right. That's why all around DeVos last weekend, spectators of all stripes kept asking the same question: Who calls a foul on the people who created the tournament?
Much about the NCAA and its tournament is a mystery. But last weekend, this much was clear. All season long, three D-III women's basketball teams had cleared every single hurdle their schedule had set in front of them during the regular season. Two of those teams -- Hope College and Howard Payne University -- were the clear juggernauts, both undefeated, often winning by wide margins, the consensus top two teams in the nation. And yet, when the tournament draw was released, one of those teams got home court, the other didn't. And while other teams could skate toward the Final Four without any top-12 competition, the two best teams would be forced to play each other in a sectional round. How could this be?

The answer, it appears, is both simple and complicated. Most simply explained, the NCAA doesn't care about rankings, consensus or common sense. Instead, it uses its own system to evaluate the strength of teams, one that takes a team's overall record, then discounts that record if the other schools that team has played -- and the teams those teams have played -- haven't won enough games. In the NCAA's system, Hope was nowhere close to a top team; in fact, it was only the third-best in just our small region of the country, behind a team that had lost three times.

How can that be? Because, in the logic of the NCAA, if other schools in Hope's league, the Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association, don't win enough non-league games, then Hope's wins must not mean as much either.

The NCAA says its system is the best way to compare teams in a division where teams don't -- and shouldn't -- play national schedules. Does it work? This year, that system produced a tournament in which nine of the top-12 rated teams (according to Massey, the nationally-respected computer poll) ended up in the same half of the tournament draw. Where two teams, Hope and Wisconsin-Whitewater, each had to play three top-12 teams for the chance to reach the Final Four, while the other three teams in the Final Four played only one top-12 team. Combined. A tournament where one of the consensus best two teams in the nation was guaranteed not to make the Final Four.

Worst of all, this system produces a tournament that, intentionally or not, plays favorites with certain schools, handing out preferential draws and home-court advantage based not on records or rankings, but on flawed information and favorable geography. Consider: The senior class at Hope, with a record of 110-10 over four years and a national championship, never played a home tournament game -- the ultimate reward for strong play -- in their four years of basketball. By comparison, DePauw University, with nearly an identical record and NCAA tournament profile to Hope, played seven.

The Final Four was a first-class event this year, and it will be again next year when it returns to Holland. The real question is whether the NCAA has the will to find a new way forward that will make the tournament itself as classy as the institutions hosting it and the teams playing in it.

By insisting on using only its own system to the exclusion of all other input, the NCAA ensures that, for all the excitement this tournament generates every year, it is not and cannot be the fair test of the basketball ability they have promised to its member schools and players. And when that happens, it's the players, the very student-athletes the NCAA pledges to support, who end up the real losers.

Click here to return to story:
http://hollandsentinel.com/stories/032608/sports_20080326075.shtml

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: airball1 on March 29, 2008, 05:38:45 PM
Pointlem:

Although you made some interesting points in your essay, some of your facts need to be verified. Like the one that the final four teams only faced one Top Twelve team combined (and I am assuming you mean HPU/Hope). If you look at Oglethorpe's road to the final four, you will see NO home games and a victory over #3 Thomas More on their home court and a victory over #10 Kean (who I think was a #3 pre-season) on their home court. Throw in a victory over #20 Wm. Smith and it's obvious which team took the hardest road without complaints. Oglethorpe did not show well in the Final Four and there has been much ado about lacking an inside game but they also showed they could win without an "inside game". It just didn't happen on the Final Four weekend.
One Fact you did get right: Hope College and the People of Holland, Michigan did an outstanding job putting on the event. A BIG THX from Hotlanta for your gracious Southern style hospitality.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 29, 2008, 05:49:22 PM
Thank you, airball1 . . . though I deserve no credit for either the article (which I didn't write, though I sympathized with) or the hospitality.  (Like so many Hope/Holland area fans I was down in Salem.  Events conspired to pull many of us away!  Likely more of us will be around to help with the hospitality in March, 2009.)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hwbb on March 29, 2008, 08:37:17 PM
Quote from: airball1 on March 29, 2008, 05:38:45 PM
Pointlem:

Although you made some interesting points in your essay, some of your facts need to be verified. Like the one that the final four teams only faced one Top Twelve team combined (and I am assuming you mean HPU/Hope). If you look at Oglethorpe's road to the final four, you will see NO home games and a victory over #3 Thomas More on their home court and a victory over #10 Kean (who I think was a #3 pre-season) on their home court. Throw in a victory over #20 Wm. Smith and it's obvious which team took the hardest road without complaints. Oglethorpe did not show well in the Final Four and there has been much ado about lacking an inside game but they also showed they could win without an "inside game". It just didn't happen on the Final Four weekend.
One Fact you did get right: Hope College and the People of Holland, Michigan did an outstanding job putting on the event. A BIG THX from Hotlanta for your gracious Southern style hospitality.

Indeed, Oglethorpe's road was a difficult one...anytime you play four away from home in the tourney, it is tough! Kudos for their resiliance and skill (and nickname!). A second look again at the  Massey ratings, however--like them or not, it was the yardstick of the writer of the posted piece used--neither Thomas More (inexplicably, perhaps) nor Kean appeared in the top-12 at the time Oglethorpe played them. One could maintain, especially on this board, that d3hoops has a better handle on the teams and a more accurate rating. Could be. Or not. It perhaps proves the point of the article...that no single system, whether Massey or d3hoops or the NCAA's, should be used to determine the brackets.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 29, 2008, 09:18:45 PM
Well, that's a fairly ridiculous yardstick to use if you're only going to use one ...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hwbb on March 29, 2008, 11:53:47 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 29, 2008, 09:18:45 PM
Well, that's a fairly ridiculous yardstick to use if you're only going to use one ...

Because?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 30, 2008, 12:19:48 AM
Are you talking Massey or Massey MOV?

There is a big difference in the two.

I have always been told that Massey MOV is more reflective as a statistical tool.

Massey (http://www.mratings.com/rate.php?lg=cbw&sub=III&mid=6)

Massey MOV (http://www.mratings.com/rate.php?lg=cbw&sub=III&mid=1)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 30, 2008, 12:21:06 AM
Seems to me it fairly underrated some teams, by your own admission.

Also seems silly for you to refer to yourself in the third person.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 30, 2008, 01:47:52 AM
One correction...

HPU opened the tourney with D3hoops.com #12 McMurry.  (McMurry was ranked #6 in Massey, #8 in the final Massey MOV.  The WBCA never had McMurry ranked as high as the other rankings/ratings.  (I wonder if the resignation of the 2007 McMurry women's coach at the end of the last season was a factor in the voting by the WBCA this season.)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 31, 2008, 03:36:10 PM
It would appear that the RCA really knows how to play women's ball.  Northwestern (of Iowa) - Hope's sister college - won the women's NAIA Div II national championship, and finished with a record of 35-2.  While Hope had a fabulous year around an entire team, NW did it a bit different. 

Senior Debbie Remmerde led the Raiders with a 30.3 point average.  She finished her career 1 point shy of the all-time NAIA scoring record, finishing with 3854 points.  She also set the career free throw record at 95.8% (657 / 686), including a collegiate record 133 in a row.  From behind the arc, she was 481/888 or 54.2%.  Amazing numbers!!

(OK - so it's my alma matter, and I had to brag a little.  I still bleed orange & blue)

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on April 18, 2008, 11:48:08 PM
Here's one for the ladies......from the Detroit News All-Metro-East, and Second Team Class A

Claire Cannon, Clinton Township Chippewa Valley: Cannon averaged 15.2 points, 4.2 assists and 3.7 rebounds to help Chippewa Valley to the MAC White title and the Class A regional final. "Claire's a gym rat," coach Dave Prestininzi said. "She's a great leader and great competitor." College -- Albion
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on May 06, 2008, 09:07:27 PM
Tidbits from the Hope women's schedule.

Open Saturday Nov 15 at DeVos vs Mt Union

Possibly 2 games with Defiance within 3 days of each other early in the season.

MIAA opener is a doozy on Wed. December 3 @ Albion;  should be two top 25 type teams there.  Return trip is Sat. Jan 24

Hope is traveling to the RDV Tournament in Orlando this year, the same one the men took part in last season.   Hope, Carthage, Elmhurst and Lawrence will be there.  Not sure of the format.

Hope is also playing Cornerstone, not sure these two programs have met very often on the women's side.

Calvin at Hope Wednesday Jan 14 at 7:30 PM
Hope at Calvin  Saturday Feb 21 3PM in the season finaly
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on May 06, 2008, 10:24:21 PM
Quote from: sac on May 06, 2008, 09:07:27 PM



Hope at Calvin  Saturday Feb 21 3PM in the season finaly


I have it on good authority that next season's home contest with Hope will be Calvin's Homecoming game--the first ever Homecoming dedicated solely to the distaff side of the hoops schedule (the men will be on the road).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on May 12, 2008, 10:14:06 PM
Quote from: oldknight on May 06, 2008, 10:24:21 PM
Quote from: sac on May 06, 2008, 09:07:27 PM



Hope at Calvin  Saturday Feb 21 3PM in the season finaly


I have it on good authority that next season's home contest with Hope will be Calvin's Homecoming game--the first ever Homecoming dedicated solely to the distaff side of the hoops schedule (the men will be on the road).

Apparently my "good authority" proved to be something less than that. :-[ Calvin's hoops schedules are up now and they show Homecoming set for the February 7 men's game against Adrian--not the women's game against Hope. I've voted to impeach my unimpeachable source. ::)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Norm Zylstra on May 19, 2008, 08:43:26 PM
Quote from: oldknight on May 12, 2008, 10:14:06 PM
Quote from: oldknight on May 06, 2008, 10:24:21 PM
Quote from: sac on May 06, 2008, 09:07:27 PM

Hope at Calvin  Saturday Feb 21 3PM in the season finale


I have it on good authority that next season's home contest with Hope will be Calvin's Homecoming game--the first ever Homecoming dedicated solely to the distaff side of the hoops schedule (the men will be on the road).

Apparently my "good authority" proved to be something less than that. :-[ Calvin's hoops schedules are up now and they show Homecoming set for the February 7 men's game against Adrian--not the women's game against Hope. I've voted to impeach my unimpeachable source. ::)

Your original source was correct. 

Calvin's 2009 Homecoming Saturday is February 21, 2009.  The basketball game is between the Knights and Dutch women's teams. 

It's my job to know (as silly as that sounds, it really is).  I'll check about where the schedule information came from, thanks for the heads-up.  February 7 would be too close to the beginning of 2nd semester anyways.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gottaluvhoops on May 22, 2008, 12:31:45 PM
How is the Hope recruiting class this year?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on May 24, 2008, 08:55:54 PM
The only recruit name I have heard is Jessa Boles - Jordan's sister.   Word is that she is very good, but a little bigger and more of a swing player than Jordan.

No rumors of transfers (read the men's board)  :).

When open gym's start there may be more word on who plans to attend.  I get the impression that it is not unusual for the Dutch to have players change their mind and attend Hope after planning to enroll elsewhere.  Snikkers made a late decision last year and I think O'Hare did the same year before last.

Also heard through the grapevine that the emphasis was on bringing in some guards with the loss of Hederson and Boles and Kopke's injury (rehab is going well), and still a very deep post roster - Snikkers, Knox, O'Hare, Bruinsma and Kutne (6'3"+, 6'2", 6'0", 6'1" and 6'1").   Morehousd seems to like all of them all and it seemed hard to get everyone good minutes last year.  It will be interesting to see how the post players are paired up.  Knox and Snikkers played together most of the time after Carrie returned from her injury and it was a very effective scoring and rebounding combination, but they are also the two best inside bangers of the group.  I think it is possible they will play on seperate rotations to balance rebounding and keep a big body in the game all the time - but that is pure speculation.

They carried 16 on the roster last year, but with 7 players returning from the regular rotation and Bruinsma and Geers getting minutes whenever possible it could be hard for freshman to break in to the rotation.  I have also heard that a couple of players from the JV have a shot at making the team.

I suppose that depth has its problems, but I think most coaches would rather worry how to distribute playing time rather than scrape to fill a starting lineup with adequate players.

Title: Re: MIAA volleyabll
Post by: Flea on May 29, 2008, 03:19:08 PM
Some volleyball recruiting news.  She transferring to Hope and could push the Dutch to the final four this coming season.

Femi Alabi (http://www.gocamels.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=65369&SPID=7302&DB_OEM_ID=15300&ATCLID=809925&Q_SEASON=2007)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on June 20, 2008, 08:28:09 PM
Women's attendance release

http://www.hope.edu/pr/pressreleases/content/view/full/18907
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Cowman on June 28, 2008, 09:06:04 AM
USA Olympic Trials schedule and results (http://www.usatf.org/events/2008/OlympicTrials-TF/schedule.asp)

Katie Corner, former Calvin College basketball player, finishes 9th at the Olympic Trials.

Women Discus Throw
==========================================================================
Auto Qualifier: 60.00
       World: W 76.80m  7/9/1988    Gabriele Reinsch, GDR
    American: A 67.67m  4/14/2007   Suzy Powell-Roos, Asics
          OT: T 65.90m  7/17/2000   Seilala Sua, UCLA
     Hayward: S 65.36m  2000        Lisa Marie Vizaniari, Australia
    Name                    Year Team                    Finals
==========================================================================
Finals
  1 Aretha Thurmond              Nike                    65.20m     213-11
      60.89m  65.20m  58.84m  57.98m  FOUL  59.82m
  2 Suzy Powell-Roos             Tri-Valley Asics        62.92m     206-05
      59.88m  58.95m  62.55m  59.69m  59.51m  62.92m
  3 Stephanie Brown Trafton      Nike                    62.65m     205-06
      FOUL  60.24m  60.43m  62.65m  FOUL  60.52m
  4 Becky Breisch                Nike                    61.04m     200-03
      60.36m  59.52m  61.04m  FOUL  56.25m  55.19m
  5 Cecilia Barnes               unattached              56.91m     186-08
      56.91m  55.80m  FOUL  55.05m  56.64m  56.68m
  6 Summer Pierson               unattached              56.69m     186-00
      53.96m  FOUL  56.69m  56.12m  FOUL  56.48m
  7 Kelechi Anyanwu              unattached              54.51m     178-10
      54.51m  53.10m  52.99m  FOUL  52.71m  FOUL
  8 Taiyshawna Battle            Arizona State           54.22m     177-11
      51.04m  54.22m  52.88m  50.29m  53.60m  52.83m
  9 Katie Corner                 Throw 1 Deep            53.49m     175-06
      53.13m  53.49m  53.16m

10 Khadija Talley               Miami                   53.49m     175-06
      53.05m  52.43m  53.49m
11 Rachel Longfors              Tri-Valley Asics        53.44m     175-04
      53.44m  FOUL  51.60m
12 Rachel Varner                unattached              53.23m     174-08
      52.99m  53.23m  FOUL
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on July 09, 2008, 03:07:06 PM
Today's Holland Sentinel had an article on the Dutch basketball team where the coach and a couple of players were quoted as saying that they hope to be good again this year and make another tournament run.  Nothing surprising there.....

But Morehouse was also quoted as saying that Calvin will have the biggest front court in the league.

Reviewing last year's Calvin roster it looks like starters Van Eck (5-9) and Harris (6-1) return along with Roodvoets (6-2) and Cryderman (6-0).  Based on what I have seen in the past, I didn't anticpate Roodvoets getting significant minutes.

Hope returns probable starters Snikkers (6-3) and Knox (6-2), along with Bruinsma (6-1) - who will probably see significant playing time - and Kutney (6-1).

Do the Knights have a couple of tall, talented recruits that are going to replace the size lost with the departure of Winkle and Willet in 07?

Or is Morehouse creating something to worry about?

Calvin does return a good core. But it seems to me that some teams lost significant talent and, unlike the Dutch, do not have the obvious replacements already on the roster.  It would appear that this year's recruiting class is especially important for Albion (post players) and St. Mary's (guard) if they are to challenge Hope and Calvin for the league's top spots.

November is still four monhts away, but does anyone have impressions of how the recruiting classes look based on summer leagues and open gyms.


http://www.hollandsentinel.com/sports/x544082489/Flying-Dutch-hope-to-make-another-bid-for-national-championship

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: fannie on July 30, 2008, 10:32:54 AM
http://www.hollandsentinel.com/sports/x1289457007/Flying-Dutch-basketball-losing-key-player-to-transfer

This makes me SAD!  Oh well gotta do what ya gotta do!  Best of luck Emily....
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on July 30, 2008, 03:21:37 PM
Last year had to be difficult for Emily, with her minutes diminishing over the course of the season.  That combined with not being sure that Hope was the right school probably made transfering an easier decision.  Even if she had not started, she would have played an important role and her contributions will be missed.

With the talent that the Dutch had in the post position - Lange, Warsen, Snikkers, Knox, O'Hare and Brunisma - it was hard for everyone to get on the court.  Each one of these players would have had major minutes on other (and probably started for most) MIAA teams.  Depth is good, but last year may have been too much of a good thing.  Coaching decisions could be easier this year.

With Emily's departure, I suspect Morehouse will primarily employ a three player rotation at the PF / C positions.  The combination of Snikkers / Knox worked well last year.  Bruinsma is more of a forward than a center, but still effective inside.  Kutney is probably still a year away from adapting to the college game, but will probably see increased playing time to get her ready for the following seasons.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on August 01, 2008, 08:07:08 AM
yes that is really to bad she left  i wish  her good luck
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on August 15, 2008, 05:29:24 AM
The Lady Dutch are in Holland (the European one) this week, Germany last week  , you can read their journal here

http://www.hope.edu/athletics/wbb/hofheim08.html
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Trailer Dog on August 24, 2008, 12:52:59 AM
CBS College Sports Network/AVCA Division III Coaches Top 25 Poll

2008 PRESEASON POLL: August 20, 2008 (http://www.avca.org/collegiate/DIIIpoll/DIIIpoll8-20-08.asp)

Calvin and Hope both ranked.
Title: Re: MIAA volleyabll
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on August 29, 2008, 10:11:50 AM
Quote from: Flea on May 29, 2008, 03:19:08 PM
Some volleyball recruiting news.  She transferring to Hope and could push the Dutch to the final four this coming season.

Femi Alabi (http://www.gocamels.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=65369&SPID=7302&DB_OEM_ID=15300&ATCLID=809925&Q_SEASON=2007)


Apparently something changed, as she is not on the roster for this year.
Title: Re: MIAA volleyabll
Post by: Flea on August 29, 2008, 09:01:26 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on August 29, 2008, 10:11:50 AM
Quote from: Flea on May 29, 2008, 03:19:08 PM
Some volleyball recruiting news.  She transferring to Hope and could push the Dutch to the final four this coming season.

Femi Alabi (http://www.gocamels.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=65369&SPID=7302&DB_OEM_ID=15300&ATCLID=809925&Q_SEASON=2007)


Apparently something changed, as she is not on the roster for this year.

Can you find out why?
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on August 29, 2008, 09:12:44 PM
Volleyball ONU Invitational
Friday, Aug 29
         
#21 Calvin (Mich)    26   25   31   3
#11 Ohio Northern   24   17   29   0
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on September 02, 2008, 03:21:32 PM
Back to basketball!!

Sharri Brumfield named Head Women's Basketball Coach
Aug. 27 - Sharri Brumfield has been named head women's basketball coach at Kalamazoo College. She will also serve as an instructor in the College's physical education department.

Brumfield comes to Kalamazoo from Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (RPI) in New York where she served as assistant women's basketball coach and recruiting coordinator this past year. Previously, Brumfield coached at Thomas More (Ky.) and led the Saints to four NCAA III Tournament appearances and two "Sweet 16" appearances over 17 seasons. more ==>

Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 13, 2008, 08:29:15 PM
Wittenberg Border Battle (http://www4.wittenberg.edu/news/athletics/volleyball/08info/borderbattle.html)
Saturday, Sept 13
         
#18 Calvin (Mich)    25   14   26   25    3
#10 Ohio Northern   14   25   24    21   1

#18 Calvin (Mich)    25   25   25          3
#5  Wittenberg        16  17    14          0

Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 14, 2008, 02:39:49 PM
The Dutch gave Witt a good match and beat Mount St. Joseph (who beat Calvin 30-1 on Friday).  Sets-up some great matches on Sept 19 (at Calvin) and Oct 17 (at Hope).

Wittenberg def. Hope
3-2 (18-25, 25-18, 18-25, 25-16, 15-7)

Ohio Northern def. Hope
3-1 (23-25, 26-24, 25-18, 25-18)

Hope def. Mount St. Joseph
3-2 (18-25, 25-22, 23-25, 26-24, 15-12)

Hope def. Hiram
3-0 (25-11, 25-15, 25-17)
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Trailer Dog on September 16, 2008, 08:55:03 PM
AVCA Division III Coaches Top 25 Poll (http://www.avca.org/collegiate/DIIIpoll/DIIIpoll9-16-08.asp)
2008 Poll #2: September 16, 2008

volleyball
15.)  Calvin
17.)  Hope
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2008, 09:21:23 PM
Hope d. Calvin 25-22, 25-20, 23-25, 25-22

Big win for the Dutch
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on September 30, 2008, 03:48:15 PM
New volleyball poll is out.  Hope moves up 1 spot to #14, Calvin moves down 1 spot to #17
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on October 15, 2008, 06:12:30 PM
so a big game friday  calvin  at hope   they are trying to break the attendance record so every one show up to watch the match friday at 6.30
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Trailer Dog on October 18, 2008, 01:06:25 PM
NCAA record crowd sees Calvin knock off Hope
An NCAA Division III regular season volleyball record crowd of 2,307 witnessed a five-set thriller Friday at DeVos Fieldhouse, as Calvin came from behind to hand Hope its first MIAA loss.  The previous NCAA regular season record crowd was 1,850 when Roanoke (Va.) College defeated Washington and Lee (Va.) on Oct. 25, 2000.

Volleyball
Calvin 17th d. Hope 12th 25-20, 23-25, 13-25, 25-13, 15-13

Did not see this coming ... especially after the 25-13 shellacking Calvin took in the 3rd set.  I'm glad they played in Hope's main arena instead of the side gym.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on October 21, 2008, 05:36:00 PM
As mentioned on the men's side, DIII News (not to be confused with D3hoops.com)  has ranked Baldwin Wallace, a team Hope beat by 20 in the second round of the '08 playoffs, #1 in its pre-season poll.  The Dutch were ranked only 23rd.

It appears that B-W was ranked #1 because they have 9 returnees from their 12 player rotation.  However, the Dutch have 7 of their top 12 returning.  In fact, Hope's returning players out scored and out rebounded BWs returing players from last year's game.  Hope completely dominated BWs post players (rebounding margin 59-23) and the Dutch should remain strong in middle again this year.  Snikkers and Knox combined for 25 points and at least 17 rebounds (there were 11 mystery "team" rebounds assigned) in only a combined 38 mins. of playing time.

http://www.hope.edu/pr/athletics/wbb/

The Dutch cupboard is far from bare. They are in a much better position than most teams that lose four starters.

The two rotation system that Morehouse uses prepares players for the future and blurs the line between starters and subs. Last year, Snikkers, Kopke, Knox and Cowen would most likely have started for almost, if not all, the teams Hope faced.

They return:

3 of the top 5 scorers and 6 of the top 10,

The top two, and 3 of the top 4, rebounders,

4 of the top 5 shot blockers, and

The top two, and 3 of the top 5, free throws taken (and made).

Coach Morehouse could start Green, Snikkers, Knox, Kopke and Cowen and still have five players with real varsity playing time to draw on - including DeKuiper, Bruinsma and Geers. Not many D3 teams have 6-1, 6-2 and 6-3 players (Bruinsma, Knox and Snikkers) with real basketball skills.

Some players will have to step up and lead, but there is real reason for optimism heading into the season.

Although DIII news advertises itself as the best publication covering the D III level, I expect that a truly informed source such as this site will show a little more respect for the Dutch program in its initial poll  :).

Title: Re: MIAA Volleyball
Post by: Dark Knight on October 22, 2008, 09:41:13 PM
In that recent squeaker of a win Calvin had at Hope, freshman Rebecca Kamp had an amazing 25 kills and 9 blocks, with a .407 hitting percentage. For her effort she received not only her second MIAA player of the week award but also her second national DIII player of the week award. It is the fifth such award a Calvin player has received.

Currently Kamp is leading DIII in hitting percentage.

Congrats!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on October 23, 2008, 04:20:54 PM
The Lady Knights have their team roster up and the varsity team shows four freshman. One of those freshmen is a 5'9" guard from Haslett--Cassie Kopke.  Hope's senior guard, Kaitlyn Kopke is also from Haslett. Are these two girls sisters? If so, how did that happen? Did she have car trouble on her way to Holland, pull off the East Beltline to ask for help, and then realize Knollcrest was the place for her?

The roster link for Calvin is:
http://www.calvin.edu/sports/womens/basketball/roster.htm

Hope's women's team is also up:
http://www.hope.edu/pr/athletics/wbb/wbbrost.html
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on October 23, 2008, 05:00:08 PM
They are sisters - I don't think there are any dramatic reasons for her decision other than feeling Calvin was the best overall choice  for her.

I am surprised that Calvin did not bring in more height to provide some help on the boards.  I think Hope continues to have an advantage in the post, but with the graduation of Warsen and O'Hare's transfer, they do not have the same level of experienced depth as last year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on October 24, 2008, 12:01:46 AM
The Hope PR department didn't mince words about what they tought of the D3 news poll.

http://www.hope.edu/pr/athletics/wbb/

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on October 28, 2008, 01:37:36 PM
Does anyone have information on Albion's roster.  Last year's team deserved to be selected for the playoffs and could have made a nice run with the way they were playing at the end of the season.

They have a great group of guards returning, but they lost four F/Cs between 6-0 and 6-2 that received almost all of the mins. in the middle.  The five seniors (forwards plus a guard) accounted for more than half their points and over two-thirds of the rebounds.

Have the Britons been able to recruit some solid post players or will they have to alter their style of play to make use of the available talent?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on October 30, 2008, 07:24:04 PM
D3hoops.com poll is up and it ranks UW-Whitewater No. 1. Pat's poll gives Hope more respect than did Women's DIII News by putting the Dutch at No. 8. Calvin's women got 1 vote.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flea on October 30, 2008, 10:03:21 PM
Quote from: WWWRHH on October 23, 2008, 05:00:08 PM

I am surprised that Calvin did not bring in more height to provide some help on the boards. 

My guess is that it was not due to a lack of desire to bring in some height.
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Trailer Dog on October 30, 2008, 10:12:36 PM
AVCA Division III Coaches top-25: Oct 28 (http://www.avca.org/divisions/division%2Dthree%2Dwomen/poll%2D8/)

14th Calvin
20th Hope
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gottaluvhoops on October 31, 2008, 10:41:48 AM
Congrats to both teams for being ranked!  It should be interesting when those two teams meet, as it always is!
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Oval on October 31, 2008, 03:58:11 PM
Quote from: Trailer Dog on October 18, 2008, 01:06:25 PM
NCAA record crowd sees Calvin knock off Hope
An NCAA Division III regular season volleyball record crowd of 2,307 witnessed a five-set thriller Friday at DeVos Fieldhouse, as Calvin came from behind to hand Hope its first MIAA loss.  The previous NCAA regular season record crowd was 1,850 when Roanoke (Va.) College defeated Washington and Lee (Va.) on Oct. 25, 2000.

Volleyball
Calvin 17th d. Hope 12th 25-20, 23-25, 13-25, 25-13, 15-13

Did not see this coming ... especially after the 25-13 shellacking Calvin took in the 3rd set.  I'm glad they played in Hope's main arena instead of the side gym.

It's great to see the volleyball match in the big gym.  Last season the were overflow in the side gym.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on October 31, 2008, 04:47:59 PM
Looking at the schedule Calvin's Homecoming game this year is Feb. 21st  versus Hope.  This is also dedication weekend for the new fieldhous complex.  I think I read the goal is to set a new attendance record for D3 women's bball that day.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on October 31, 2008, 05:10:39 PM
Before I move on to basketball.....

Good Luck Volleyball team.  A good tournament run would be the perfect transition to the basketball season.  Although basketball tends to get the most attention at Hope, I know the other athletes are working just as hard and often providing just as entertaining and exciting performance as the high profile sports.

As I expected, D3hoops ranked the Dutch in the top ten.  I think number eight is reasonable - we will find out as the season progresses.  

It looks like several top teams return strong core lineups.

Since last years "second string" usually performed at least as well as the starters, Hope should match up well with anyone at the beginning of the game and should do very well in the conference as the other top teams lost key players as well.

However (and I may be repeating myself from earlier postings)  the team probably is not quite as deep this year.  We fans are quite familar with the top seven or eight players, but the backups at the 1, 3 and 5 positions will not bring the experience (Kopke, Knox, O'Hare, Cowen) or reputation (Snikkers) as was the case last year.  It appears unlikely that players like Knox and Bruinsma will be starting the season on the third unit.  My impression is that unlike past years, the team is deeper at the backcourt positions than in the post.  Hopefully, Kutne and the post players brought up from JV develop and become ready to step up to bigger roles.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flea on November 02, 2008, 03:00:38 PM
Quote from: realist on October 31, 2008, 04:47:59 PM
Looking at the schedule Calvin's Homecoming game this year is Feb. 21st  versus Hope.  This is also dedication weekend for the new fieldhous complex.  I think I read the goal is to set a new attendance record for D3 women's bball that day.

The varsity play first followed by the junior varsity.  Apparently there's a get together next to the gym between games ... everyone's invited.
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Trailer Dog on November 02, 2008, 03:08:41 PM
Busy volleyball weekend ...

MIAA
Calvin d. Kalamazoo 25-13, 25-13, 25-13
Hope d. Alma 25-12, 28-26, 25-22
Albion d. Trine 25-23, 25-14, 25-21.
Hope d. Kalamazoo 25-19, 25-14, 25-9
Calvin d. Alma 25-21, 21-25, 25-22, 25-15
Alma d. Hanover, Ind. 25-14, 25-20, 25-21

non-MIAA
Calvin d. Baldwin-Wallace, Ohio 25-13, 25-10, 25-16
Kalamazoo d. Hanover, Ind. 25-23, 25-23, 15-25, 17-25, 15-12
Alma d. Manchester, Ind. 25-23, 25-18, 25-20
Heidelberg d. Hope 23-25, 25-16, 25-20, 14-25, 15-10
Wheaton, Ill. d. Adrian 25-15, 25-19, 15-25, 25-18
Adrian d. Benedictine, Ill. 25-21, 23-25, 26-24, 25-21
Alma d. Hanover, Ind. 25-14, 25-20, 25-21
Calvin d. Heidelberg, Ohio 22-25, 25-22, 25-15, 25-17
Hope d. Baldwin-Wallace, Ohio 25-12, 25-12, 25-18
Manchester, Ind. d. Kalamazoo 19-25, 13-25, 25-19, 25-18, 15-11
North Central, Ill. d. Adrian 25-14, 25-15, 25-12
Adrian d. Aurora, Ill. 23-25, 25-21, 25-22, 25-15

getting ready for ...
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Trailer Dog on November 02, 2008, 03:15:15 PM
MIAA volleyball tournament
Tuesday, November 4

First Round
#8 Trine (4-12, 9-19) at #1 Hope (15-1, 25-6), 7 p.m.
#7 Kalamazoo (4-12, 8-21) at #2 Calvin (14-2, 24-4), 7 p.m.
#6 Albion (5-11, 12-15) at #3 Alma (11-5, 20-9), 7 p.m.
#5 Adrian (8-8, 14-15) at #4 Saint Mary's (9-7, 18-10), 7 p.m.

1.) Can Calvin overcome Hope's experience?
2.) If the seeds play out will the Dutch lose or a second time to the Knights on their home court?
3.) As this season has bore out someone will upset one of the big-2, if so, who will it be?
4.) Can Hope or Calvin lose and pick-up one of 6 NCAA at-large bids?

Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Dark Knight on November 04, 2008, 08:14:18 PM
Quote from: Trailer Dog on November 02, 2008, 03:15:15 PM
1.) Can Calvin overcome Hope's experience?
2.) If the seeds play out will the Dutch lose or a second time to the Knights on their home court?

Calvin has really been playing well of late, with several victories over regionally or nationally ranked competition in Hope, Embry-Riddle, and Heidelberg, whereas Hope picked up a couple of losses. Anything can happen, of course, but Calvin seems to be getting their game together.

Kamp is turning out to be a dominant force when she's on the front line. She has an amazing ability to get the ball down in the opponent's side of the court in just the right place, at just the right time, to make it really hard to return. Does she have a shot at league MVP and All-American as a freshman if Calvin makes a good tournament run?


Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Trailer Dog on November 04, 2008, 10:43:29 PM
MIAA volleyball tournament
Friday, November 7 at Hope

Semifinals
#3 Scots (21-9) v. #2 Knights (26-4), 5:30 p.m.
#5 Bulldogs (15-15) v. #1 Dutch (26-6), 7:30 p.m.

First Round
#1 Dutch d. #8 Thunder 25-15, 25-17, 25-12
#2 Knights d. #7 Hornets 25-17, 25-19, 25-18
#3 Scots d. #6 Britons 25-18, 25-13, 25-20
#5 Bulldogs d. #4 Belles 21-25, 25-22, 25-21, 25-19

Does anyone know if they'll play the semis on the main floor or in the side gym?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on November 05, 2008, 04:24:24 PM
Is freshman Jessa Boles, Jordyn's sister? Does she have similar game?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on November 05, 2008, 09:59:02 PM
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on November 05, 2008, 04:24:24 PM
Is freshman Jessa Boles, Jordyn's sister? Does she have similar game?

Yes; they are sisters. I never got a chance to see Jessa play a high school game but I understand that she does have a pretty good outside shot so that similarity is obvious. I do believe Jessa played center on her high school team so she has some post scoring ability too. But on this team I doubt Morehouse is looking for her to carry the inside scoring load.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on November 05, 2008, 10:42:46 PM
Don't get to chat much about women's hoops, but any idea how Brian did with his recruiting this year? Hard to top getting Snikkers and Co. last year... Looks like 3 freshmen guards including Boles. And I saw a 6'1" on the JV .

I've always been amazed at the level of players he brings to Hope.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: cmlundy on November 06, 2008, 11:25:33 AM
I like the fact that Jessa has an outside shot like Jordyn.  With the inside presences, it is also good to have the outside threat from 3. 

Coaches Poll is out and Hope is picked 1st

Any ideas on the Starting Five?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch on November 06, 2008, 01:51:32 PM
The Dutch scrimmaged GVSU last night.  Even though the coach played many different combinations the Dutch played well and came out ahead by a comfortable margin in  the first half.  The second half was closer, but there seemed to be less emphasis on winning than on seeing how groupings of players worked out.

The starters last night were Green, Snikkers, Knox, Kopke, and Cowen.

The second unit was Bruinsma, Kutney, DeKuiper, Greers with freshman Allie Cerone at point.  Abby Phillips, a sophmore up from JV also saw some good minutes with this unit and showed a really nice 3 pt. touch.  Bruinsma saw some minutes with mostly first unit players.

It appeared that others in line to receive some playing time are Boles and Kreuze, another sophmore up from JV.

No surprises.  Kopke looked healthy and full speed and did  a good job running the point.  Green played great defense, slashed to the basket and hit a couple of nice pull up jumpers.  Cowen looked to pass inside, but kept everyone honest with a couple of long jumpers.  Snkkers made some nice inside moves and her outside shot looked smooth.  Knox rebounded aggressively and went to the free throw line several times (and made most of them).

Everyone played hard defense. Very balanced - no one dominated and everyone scored.

It looked like the Dutch employed a match up zone defense more than I have seen in the past.  It helped the post match up with smaller, quicker GVSU players on the perimeter by providing a little back up help inside.  I thought the defense improved as the game progressed and the players adjusted to the opponents style.

Both units were strong on the inside and Kutney looked more confident and had a nice looking shot.  GVSU played small lineups and Hope was able to use their size advantage on the offensive end.

I would be surprised to see Boles taking many outside shots.  It looked like she was used primarily at the 4 position.

There are still some timing issues to work out.  Some passes were made a little late and I think that with some combinations there was uncertainty about each player's exact role.  But overall a good and encouraging effort for this stage of the season.

The best indicator was smiles on the coaches faces afterward.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on November 06, 2008, 05:30:53 PM
i think they looked pretty good last night  a lot of people there for not announcing it on the radio
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Grutte Dirk on November 06, 2008, 06:32:44 PM
2008-09 MIAA Women's Basketball Preseason Poll
(first place votes in parenthesis):

1. Hope 11 (6)
2. Calvin 14.5 (2.5)
3. Albion 21.5 (0.5)
4. Saint Mary's 31
5. Adrian 34
6. Olivet 46
7. Alma 53
7. Trine 53
9. Kalamazoo 60

Very surprised Calvin received any 1st place votes. I think this winter's Albion squad has a better shot at Hope.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 07, 2008, 01:55:32 PM
Hope has closed their campus until Tuesday morning due to a Norovirus outbreak - including cancelling all on-campus athletic activities. 

http://www.hope.edu/hopetoday/
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 07, 2008, 02:42:04 PM
Back to volleyball........

how does this....
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on November 07, 2008, 01:55:32 PM
Hope has closed their campus until Tuesday morning due to a Norovirus outbreak - including cancelling all on-campus athletic activities. 

http://www.hope.edu/hopetoday/


affect the MIAA volleyball tournament at Hope this weekend?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 07, 2008, 03:01:47 PM
Quote from: sac (semi tanned, stuffed with shrimp,  treadmill on order) on November 07, 2008, 02:42:04 PM
Back to volleyball........

how does this....
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on November 07, 2008, 01:55:32 PM
Hope has closed their campus until Tuesday morning due to a Norovirus outbreak - including cancelling all on-campus athletic activities. 

http://www.hope.edu/hopetoday/


affect the MIAA volleyball tournament at Hope this weekend?

Nevermind

The MIAA volleyball tournament scheduled this weekend has also been cancelled at DeVos Fieldhouse and has not been rescheduled at this time.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on November 08, 2008, 09:11:47 AM
hope plays tuesday afternoon at  3.00 vs adrian   then calvin and alma play then the winner plays at  8.00
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Preto on November 08, 2008, 04:10:13 PM
sent out by MIAA publicist Greg Chandler

MIAA Volleyball Tournament semifinals and finals postponed

Friday's and Saturday's matches in the MIAA volleyball tournament have been postponed until Tuesday, Nov. 11.  Commissioner David Neilson has determined that the matches will be conducted on Tuesday in a triangular format at Hope College's DeVos Fieldhouse.

semifinals:
3 p.m.  Adrian v. Hope
then     Alma v. Calvin

championship:
8 p.m.  semifinal winners

A backup site will be designated if health prohibitions at Hope College have not been lifted. The Ottawa County Health Department, in consultation with the state of Michigan and federal Centers for Disease Control, have ordered Hope College to prohibit assembly of people on campus and at sporting events. They have also prohibited the travel of Hope student-athletes to other sporting events. The prohibitions will be reviewed Tuesday morning, Nov. 11.

Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Harrier on November 08, 2008, 04:18:59 PM
How does this effect the MIAA auto-qualifier and any at large bids?  The pairings are done Sunday night and I cannot imagine they'd keep a at-large spot open.  Does this mean only one MIAA team can go to the NCAAs?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on November 08, 2008, 04:24:44 PM
now the  thing for tuesday is cancled hope gets the auto because they won the league
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on November 08, 2008, 04:31:57 PM
Quote from: hope1 on November 08, 2008, 04:24:44 PM
now the  thing for tuesday is cancled hope gets the auto because they won the league

From MIAA site:

The Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association announced Saturday that it has canceled the MIAA volleyball tournament, which had initially been postponed until Tuesday, Nov. 11.

So this means Alma and Adrian loose their chance at the automatic qualifier so the MIAA has a chance to send an at-large team (possibly Calvin) as well as the MIAA automatic qualifier (Hope)?
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Oval on November 08, 2008, 04:33:44 PM
Quote from: Flea on November 08, 2008, 04:31:57 PM
So this means Alma and Adrian loose their chance at the automatic qualifier so the MIAA has a chance to send an at-large team (possibly Calvin) as well as the MIAA automatic qualifier (Hope)?

Nope ... read the next papragraph ::

Commissioner David Neilson announced the cancellation after consulting with the NCAA, which had initially allowed an exception to its requirement that the MIAA's automatic qualifier be determined by Sunday's deadline. After revisiting the matter, the NCAA determined that the MIAA must abide by the original timeline.
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Harrier on November 08, 2008, 09:23:23 PM
Quote from: Oval on November 08, 2008, 04:33:44 PM
After revisiting the matter, the NCAA determined that the MIAA must abide by the original timeline.


Looks like the Commissioner Neilson's got a direct line to the NCAA.  I wonder what prompted the NCAA to reconsider their decision?  Must have been quite a task to pull everyone together on a Saturday afternoon to overturn their original decision.
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Dark Knight on November 09, 2008, 03:58:00 PM
Quote from: Flea on November 08, 2008, 04:31:57 PM
Quote from: hope1 on November 08, 2008, 04:24:44 PM
now the  thing for tuesday is cancled hope gets the auto because they won the league

From MIAA site:

The Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association announced Saturday that it has canceled the MIAA volleyball tournament, which had initially been postponed until Tuesday, Nov. 11.

So this means Alma and Adrian loose their chance at the automatic qualifier so the MIAA has a chance to send an at-large team (possibly Calvin) as well as the MIAA automatic qualifier (Hope)?

Yes, that's presumably what it means. Calvin also loses its chance to win the league tournament, though hopefully Calvin will still be invited to the NCAAs. They'll have to put a big asterisk by this season's league champion result.

On the plus side, does this mean that a possible third meeting between Calvin and Hope could be at Calvin or a neutral site now?
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on November 09, 2008, 05:27:08 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on November 09, 2008, 03:58:00 PM
On the plus side, does this mean that a possible third meeting between Calvin and Hope could be at Calvin or a neutral site now?


oddly, home court hasn't been to kind this fall ::

Sept 19 Hope over Calvin 3-1 at Calvin
Oct 17  Calvin over Hope 3-2 at Hope
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 09, 2008, 06:43:05 PM
There's a post on the MIAA men's bball site that Hope is now closed through at least Wednesday a.m., with 400 confirmed cases of norovirus (and the poster was dubious that the campus would open even Wednesday).

Anyone know whether Hope athletes have been isolated and/or allowed to practice elsewhere?  It would be a shame if all their seasons ended prematurely.
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Erm Schmigget on November 10, 2008, 08:55:44 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on November 09, 2008, 03:58:00 PM

Yes, that's presumably what it means. Calvin also loses its chance to win the league tournament, though hopefully Calvin will still be invited to the NCAAs. They'll have to put a big asterisk by this season's league champion result.
On the plus side, does this mean that a possible third meeting between Calvin and Hope could be at Calvin or a neutral site now?


Would you ask the MIAA to put a big asterisk next to the regular season basketball champs for every year before they adopted the league tournament system for determining the automatic bid?

This whole situation stinks enough for the athletes.  Why cast this cloud over them too? 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 10, 2008, 09:19:21 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 09, 2008, 06:43:05 PM
There's a post on the MIAA men's bball site that Hope is now closed through at least Wednesday a.m., with 400 confirmed cases of norovirus (and the poster was dubious that the campus would open even Wednesday).

Anyone know whether Hope athletes have been isolated and/or allowed to practice elsewhere?  It would be a shame if all their seasons ended prematurely.

No practices have been occuring, affecting fall and winter sports teams.  Word "on the street" is that there are a number of athletes who have been infected.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on November 10, 2008, 09:31:50 AM
I hope this doesn't affect the women's basketball team too greatly.  We (Vera and I) have been looking forward to getting our first glimpse of them this Saturday against Mount Union.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 10, 2008, 09:34:13 AM
Same for us, Erm.

Volleyball update - both Hope and Calvin are in the trounament, at the same location - UW Oshkosh.  Potential meeting in a regional semi-final
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on November 10, 2008, 09:38:28 AM
Flying Dutch Fan's information  is consistent with what I have been told.

The health department order prohibits all gatherings and that includes practices.  Hope athletes live within the broader college community and many have been infected.  Some coaches have also become ill.

Obviously this is bad timing for the women's basketball team as they prepare to open this weekend.

I feel bad for the senior fall sport athletes (both at Hope and other MIAA schools) that have had their final season disrupted and perhaps even end prematurely.



Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 10, 2008, 11:30:44 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on November 10, 2008, 09:34:13 AM
Same for us, Erm.

Volleyball update - both Hope and Calvin are in the trounament, at the same location - UW Oshkosh.  Potential meeting in a regional semi-final

Hope plays Heidelberg, Calvin plays Whitewater


Hope just played Heidelberg 2 weeks ago......the berg won 23-25, 25-16, 25-20, 14-25, 15-10
Title: Re: MIAA Volleyball
Post by: Dark Knight on November 11, 2008, 01:59:00 PM
Congrats to Rebecca Kamp, the first ever freshman to be selected as MIAA MVP in volleyball. If her numbers hold up, she looks like a good bet for All American as well.

Have any MIAA athletes in any sport made league MVP and All American as freshmen?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on November 11, 2008, 05:24:27 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on November 10, 2008, 09:19:21 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 09, 2008, 06:43:05 PM
There's a post on the MIAA men's bball site that Hope is now closed through at least Wednesday a.m., with 400 confirmed cases of norovirus (and the poster was dubious that the campus would open even Wednesday).

Anyone know whether Hope athletes have been isolated and/or allowed to practice elsewhere?  It would be a shame if all their seasons ended prematurely.

No practices have been occuring, affecting fall and winter sports teams.  Word "on the street" is that there are a number of athletes who have been infected.

This virus is a really tough break for Hope. I'm wondering what the athletes (presumably on their own) have been doing to prepare for the NCAA?

Word "on the street" at Knollcrest is that a Calvin student visited friends at Hope last week ( :o :o), and after returning to the Calvin dorms, a resident got sick over the weekend. The volleyball coaches were so spooked by the news that they ordered the entire team off campus. I understand the ill student was tested and norovirus was not implicated.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: OshDude on November 11, 2008, 07:58:49 PM
If anyone's interested in the D-III regional volleyball tournaments, I have a fairly extensive blog (http://uwoshvball.wordpress.com/) that covers the St. Thomas (http://uwoshvball.wordpress.com/2008/11/11/st-thomas-regional-guide/) and Oshkosh (http://uwoshvball.wordpress.com/2008/11/11/oshkosh-regional-guide/) (where HC and CC will be) regionals. It's not bad in national terms, either. Stop by and tell me what you think.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 11, 2008, 08:19:29 PM
Well done OshDude.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: OshDude on November 11, 2008, 09:20:24 PM
I'm really looking forward to seeing Kamp and Calvin this year. I covered the Carthage Regional last year and went away really impressed with Krikke, Zondervan and another huge hitter (whose name escapes me ... Kalb sound right?). At least in the first match. Second one? Not so much, but in that opener Zondervan directed an incredible offensive machine.

Anyway, I didn't think Calvin would be back after losing those three players. Can't wait to see what Kamp can do against a young and talented Whitewater team. Can't wait to see Kamp, period. Lots of accolades for her already.

I have not seen Hope this year, either. But I've seen them a few times in the past. Anyone have any info to prepare me for what I'll see? Still running the same offense? Read and heard all about the virus situation. Hope (no pun intended) they'll be prepared to play their best. Hard to imagine they would be after not practicing and all of the other restrictions.

Best of luck, MIAA-ers. Anyone going to Oshkosh?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on November 12, 2008, 07:31:16 AM
Quote from: OshDude on November 11, 2008, 09:20:24 PM
Best of luck, MIAA-ers.

Thanks! You too.

This regional of 8 teams has 6 ranked or RV teams, according to the AVCA:
Calvin  (#14) v. Whitewater (#11)
Carthage (#10) v. St. Norbert
Heidelberg (RV) vs. Hope (#22)
Lakeland vs. Oshkosh (#7)

Massey Ratings has volleyball ratings, which are a bit different:
Calvin (#15) vs. Whitewater (#3)
Carthage (#7) vs. St. Norbert (#67)
Heidelberg (#28) vs. Hope (#29)
Lakeland (#54) vs. Oshkosh (#10)

If Massey is to be believe, Calvin has the toughest initial match and Whitewater is the favorite to win the sectional.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: OshDude on November 12, 2008, 01:02:43 PM
One more angle. Pablo rankings, which have been an incredible predictor in the past. Rankings are national:

at Oshkosh
#10 Calvin vs #30 Whitewater
#14 Carthage vs #47 St Norbs
#13 Heidelberg vs #18 Hope
#79 Lakeland vs #15 Oshkosh
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: OshDude on November 12, 2008, 01:19:42 PM
New AVCA poll released today.
This regional of 8 teams has 6 ranked or RV teams, according to the AVCA:
Calvin  (#14)(#12) v. Whitewater (#11)(#15)
Carthage (#10) v. St. Norbert
Heidelberg (RV) vs. Hope (#22)(#19)
Lakeland vs. Oshkosh (#7)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on November 12, 2008, 02:51:45 PM
Quote from: OshDude on November 12, 2008, 01:02:43 PM
One more angle. Pablo rankings, which have been an incredible predictor in the past. Rankings are national:

at Oshkosh
#10 Calvin vs #30 Whitewater
#14 Carthage vs #47 St Norbs
#13 Heidelberg vs #18 Hope
#79 Lakeland vs #15 Oshkosh

I think I like this Pablo system!  ;)  Thanks for posting the results.

On the other hand, I checked Massey again and realized that he hasn't put in any games from this year. The rankings above are for last year. Oops.

Has anyone here looked into how these ranking systems work? I wonder if a hidden markov probability model wouldn't be better than the MOV averaging often used. Are there any ranking systems using HMMs?

Hmmm, a fun project for a cold winter's evening?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: OshDude on November 12, 2008, 04:17:44 PM
Much of what you wrote was over my head (I'm not surprised), but here's (http://www.richkern.com/vb/rankings/PabloFAQ.asp) how Pablo is calculated, if you're interested. It's based on individual set scores more than overall match results. However Pablo is figured, it has regularly outperformed regional rankings and NCAA seeds.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 13, 2008, 08:21:47 AM
Hope's opener against Mt Union on Saturday has been cancelled.  Mt Union is not allowing there team to come to Hope over concerns about the virus
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on November 13, 2008, 09:29:54 AM
This is very disppointing news, and I think an over reaction considering the pro-active steps that Hope took to address the situation, the relatively low infection rate within the broader Hope community, the health department's monitoring and the noro-virus method of transmission.  The Raiders would not need to visit any campus buildings other than DeVos and I am sure even the visitors locker room has been sanitized a couple of times.

Contact on the basketball court does not seem to transmit the virus.  Some of the players became sick, but not all.  There have been no reports of GVSU players becoming ill after last Wednesday's scrimmage when some of the Dutch players were likely already infected.

Hopefully Mount Union is just being cautious rather than using the situation as an excuse to avoid opening the season with a long bus ride to face a bigger, highly ranked opponent.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope81 on November 13, 2008, 12:06:32 PM
At this point there is still a women's jayvee game Saturday at 5 pm.  Morehouse is also searching for a possible scrimmage opponent, but time is short.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 13, 2008, 01:16:12 PM
hope81 - just checking - the JV schedule on the Hope website says the game on the 15th is at 1pm.  Has it been changed to 5pm?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope81 on November 13, 2008, 04:59:33 PM
You are correct that the schedule says 1 pm.  However, the game became part of the night activities with Mount Union.  It still will be at 5 pm as of right now.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 13, 2008, 05:01:16 PM
UW Whitewater ended Calvin's volleyball season this afternoon 3-1.   Still... congrats on a fine season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 13, 2008, 05:02:06 PM
Quote from: hope81 on November 13, 2008, 04:59:33 PM
You are correct that the schedule says 1 pm.  However, the game became part of the night activities with Mount Union.  It still will be at 5 pm as of right now.
OK thanks!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on November 13, 2008, 05:56:57 PM
hope has a scrimmage at  4.00  at the devoss friday
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 13, 2008, 08:59:24 PM
Hope VB lost to Heidleberg 3-1.  Looks like they put up a good fight (25-22, 20-25, 29-27, 25-19).  Would have loved to have seen them play without having "the plague" interrupt their preparations.  Congrats on a great season!!

Go HOPE
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: OC_SID on November 13, 2008, 11:09:39 PM
The live stats on the host school's Web site reports it was a five-set loss.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: OshDude on November 14, 2008, 01:10:26 AM
Quote from: OC_SID on November 13, 2008, 11:09:39 PM
The live stats on the host school's Web site reports it was a five-set loss.
Yeah, five sets. Wish I could see Hope OH Nora Slenk play another match. Wow, was she good.
That whole Heidelberg/Hope match was incredible. Great showcase for what D-III volleyball has to offer. Entertaining, intense, well-played, etc. Too bad for Hope that the Heidelberg serve was ridiculous at times.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 14, 2008, 07:57:01 AM
MY bad, I mis-read the 3rd game.  Hope really struggled this year in 5 set matches (2-5), but still a great season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flea on November 14, 2008, 10:17:42 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on November 11, 2008, 01:59:00 PM
Congrats to Rebecca Kamp, the first ever freshman to be selected as MIAA MVP in volleyball. If her numbers hold up, she looks like a good bet for All American as well.

Have any MIAA athletes in any sport made league MVP and All American as freshmen?


I'm wondering ... how often is the MIAA MVP not All-American (in any sport)?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: OshDude on November 14, 2008, 02:45:43 PM
Quote from: Flea on November 14, 2008, 10:17:42 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on November 11, 2008, 01:59:00 PM
Congrats to Rebecca Kamp, the first ever freshman to be selected as MIAA MVP in volleyball. If her numbers hold up, she looks like a good bet for All American as well.

Have any MIAA athletes in any sport made league MVP and All American as freshmen?


I'm wondering ... how often is the MIAA MVP not All-American (in any sport)?
She was also named AVCA All-Region (http://www.avca.org/awards/divisional-/division-three-all-region) and Great Lakes Freshman of the Year. Book it. She'll be an All-American. Several other Hope and Calvin players were named to the All-Region and HM teams.
Also yesterday, the Calvin coach was named GLR Coach of the Year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 14, 2008, 04:09:10 PM
The MIAA was very well represented on the Great Lakes all region team.  The future looks fairly bright for Hope and Calvin as well.

All-Region

Kim Gillhespy - SR- Alma
Rebecca Kamp - FR - Calvin
Nora Slenk - SR - Hope
Kara VandeGutche - SO - Hope

Honorable mention

Lauren DeGroot - SR - Calvin
Andrea Helminiak - JR - Hope
Kelsey Sears - JR - Calvin

Title: Re: MIAA Volleyball
Post by: Dark Knight on November 19, 2008, 08:24:41 PM
Quote from: OshDude on November 14, 2008, 02:45:43 PM
Book it. She'll be an All-American.

National freshman of the year and first-team All American. Can't complain about those results.

Congrats to Rebecca.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gottaluvhoops on November 20, 2008, 11:00:18 AM
Volleyball :) .  Isn't this a basketball bored.  Just kidding! 

How do the teams look early on?  Will Hope win another conference championship this year?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 20, 2008, 11:42:08 AM
My opinion - Hope will win the league again, although I doubt it will be at 16-0.  The Hope team is still very deep, with a lot of experience, speed, and what I see as two legit All-American level players in Snikkers and Greene.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on November 22, 2008, 03:51:08 PM
FDF:  I am inclined to agree with your prediction at this point.  I see Calvin being very hard to beat in their new home, but not sure they will duplicate the success that Hope has enjoyed at the De Vos. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on November 23, 2008, 02:45:32 PM
The Dutch won their tip off tournament.  They beat a pretty good Condordia team Friday night (although the Cobbers were just over matched on the inside) and won pretty comfortably over Defiance on Saturday.

There were some good individual performances, and this year's team may be even more athletic than the last couple of years.   However, they played some ugly basketball, mixed in with some really good stretches, in both games.  When the starters were on the court together, the Dutch were solid but unspectacular, but some combinations had a lot of glitches.  Some of this is understandable given the practices, Ferris State scrimmage and Mt. Union game lost to the noro-virus.  They are also replacing four starters, so some bumps are to be expected.  However, they will have to get the unforced mental errors under control before they travel to Albion on December 3rd.

I expect the team to have a great season, but they have a lot of work to do to reach their full potential.  When they get their timing down and really learn how to play together it is going to be hard for any of the other conference schools to stop them.

Philly Green demonstrated that she has the ability to change the tempo of a game almost single handily.   The big post combination of Knox and Snikkers worked out very well.  Snikkers has as much pure basketball talent and skills as any player at this level, but is still too streaky.  Knox seems able to maintain consistent intensity and find ways to use her strength to her advantage.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on November 23, 2008, 05:34:27 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on November 20, 2008, 11:42:08 AM
My opinion - Hope will win the league again, although I doubt it will be at 16-0.  The Hope team is still very deep, with a lot of experience, speed, and what I see as two legit All-American level players in Snikkers and Greene.

I agree with your assessment. The 2007-08 edition of Hope basketball was an unusual core group of talented, proven veterans combined with exceptionally talented newcomers--a team of so many good players on one squad we might not see the likes of again in the MIAA. This year's core group is very talented, but I think Hope will lose at least one conference game. In addition to last year's seniors, I think the retirement of Emily O'Hare from Hope's team is a loss. I saw her in high school and thought she was perfectly suited to the D3 game. She gave Hope some good minutes off the bench last year and I thought she was destined to give Hope more and even better minutes this year. Apparently she wanted to move into the next phase of her life before graduation, and that's OK too. The commitment to college sports big and if you're dissatisfied with it, it's best to move on, so best wishes to Emily.

Based on this weekend's results it appears that Marcia Harris is fully recovered from her 2007 tournament injury. Combined with a couple of freshmen who might inject new life, I think the Lady Knights might offer a test in February when they (not the men's team) host Hope for Homecoming at the new arena. This game has potential to be an exciting event.

Quote from: WWWRHH on November 23, 2008, 02:45:32 PM


The big post combination of Knox and Snikkers worked out very well.  Snikkers has as much pure basketball talent and skills as any player at this level, but is still too streaky. 

In part because of her outrageous talent, Carrie does have a tendency to coast when the opponent isn't challenging her or her team. But I have seen her play a lot and can tell you that she has often bailed out her team when the game was close and the hour was late.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 03, 2008, 11:19:09 PM
Hope 80 Albion 54

What a defensive effort by the Lady Dutch this evening. 

Hope held Albion's starting 5 to 21 points, on 7-33 (21.2%), 12 rebounds, 3 assists, 11 turnovers, 3 steals

Hope's starting 5 scored 57 points, on 23-43 (53.5%), 23 rebounds, 15 assists, 9 turnovers, 7 steals.

What a couple young teams these are,  Albion has 1 Jr, 1 Sr (who did not play) they started So, So, So, Fr, Jr.   Hope has 2 Jr, 2 Sr but started Sr, Jr, Jr, Sr, So.  And they just kicked some tail.

It was just domination on the defensive end.  I'm not sure how many but I can only remember a handfull of Albion baskets that seemed to come from their offense, all the backdoor cut variety.  The rest seemed to be late in the shot clock desperate looking shots.   I don't think the final score reflects just how dominating this was, maybe it does.  It was 40-21 at halftime and Hope was a miserable 1-11 from trey, I mean, wow!

The difference to me seemed to be movement.  The whole Hope team just moved better than Albion.  They were all over the Brits on defense because they could be, and on offense they probably move the ball, and without the ball better than most at this level.  They should list Philana Greene on the other teams roster because she always seems to be wearing the other girls jersey.

Hope's girls looked like they hit the weight room (and the tanning beds), a number of them also looked a little trimmed down from last year.  Lots of offseason running I'm guessing.  They didn't look fatigued at all in this one.   Geers, Bruinsma and DeKuipers off the bench looked much improved, if Hope can get these girls and the rest of the bench to perform at the next level........well, lookout.

I'm sure coach Mo was very pleased with the overall defensive effort and intensity which was there all evening.


Past trips to Albion have been more thrilling, I'm not certain this Albion team is as good as last years but..........

08  Hope 64 Albion 62
07  Albion 82 Hope 75
06  Hope 82 Albion 78 OT
05  Albion 84 Hope 72

in the MIAA world, I think this score is a shocker.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 04, 2008, 09:35:30 AM
Albion has indeed been the toughest MIAA opponent for Hope in recent years.  Starting with the 1999-2000 season through today, Hope is an incredible 148-14 in MIAA play - that's a .914 winning percentage.  The 14 losses break down like this:

7 Albion
5 Calvin
2 Alma (both in 99-00)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on December 04, 2008, 12:42:32 PM
good summary sac

I will add a "few" observations.  While the defensive effort was very good there was also notable improvement on the offensive end. Turnovers were cut in half and the offensive rotation was the best it has been this year.  The Dutch won a couple of their previous games because they were bigger and more athletic than the opponent, but last night they were bigger and played better basketball making it a lot more fun to watch.

The Brits are not as good as last year.  They graduated four good 4 / 5 position players and the incoming bigs are not yet up to speed.  Hope starts some size...5-7, 5-9, 5-9, 6-2, 6-3.  While neither of the bigs (Snikkers and Knox) have started before, they are experienced and productive.  They are backed up by an athletic 6-1 Bruinsma (who would start on other MIAA teams) and 6-1 Kutney.

This size is going to give the rest of the MIAA problems since a lot of the better post players have graduated over the last couple of years and have not been replaced with equivalent size.  Hope's height inside poses two problems for opponents.  The Dutch posts are real basketball players and the guards are such great defenders there is no relief from the pressure on the perimeter making it very hard for opponents to find open shots.

Last night was Snikkers' best outing of the season and possibly of her college career.  She shot well, played active defense -including going to the floor for loose balls and challenging shots from the corner - and moved very well without the ball.

The double big combination of Knox and Snikkers is somewhat different than Morehouse's past strategy of pairing a big center with more of a 3 position type player at power forward.  They are working well together although it seems like both still want to go to the same spot at times.  It also requires Knox to often guard a forward on the perimeter which is not a situation we have seen in the past.

Last night the post players combined for 38 points (Snikkers 19, Knox 10, and Bruinsma 9)  Knox played less minutes and Burinsma more minutes vs. previous outings.  Erica was playing well and Albion started a 5-10 forward that liked to play away from the basket which is a more natural position for her than Knox.  However, #24 finished with only 3 points so there was not much to complain about either's defensive effort.

You are right about Green.  I have not seen a better defender in the MIAA, but what is seldom mentioned is her effort on the boards.  With all the attention given to trying to box out the bigs, she finds a way to slide in and grab a lot of rebounds.

Although the three point shooting was cold in the first half it improved in the second half and the guards shoot well enough to keep any team from sagging inside and shutting down the post options.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flea on December 04, 2008, 09:40:29 PM
Quote from: oldknight on November 23, 2008, 05:34:27 PM
Combined with a couple of freshmen who might inject new life, I think the Lady Knights might offer a test in February when they (not the men's team) host Hope for Homecoming at the new arena. This game has potential to be an exciting event.

Apparently Calvin is inviting any and all high school students to the game free of charge.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Oval on December 06, 2008, 10:48:32 PM
Women's Basketball Dec 06 scores
Trine 66, Kalamazoo 59
Adrian 54, Albion 52 (wow)
Hope 63, Alma 46
Saint Mary's 79, Calvin 74 (ouch)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on December 06, 2008, 11:43:26 PM
Not much to say about the Hope game.  The team was not as sharp as against Albion but the game was not as close as the score indicates.  The starters played only 15 mins. and the posts once again dominated the inside.

Based on comp scores between common opponents it looks like there is parity among most of the league - except for Hope.  The Dutch are balanced and have a lot of weapons.  They just have to keep their focus and find ways to stay sharp.

I enjoy watching comortable victories, but the team needs to be challenged.  Next Saturday's game against Cornerstone will be interesting given CU's NAIA ranking.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 08, 2008, 12:58:27 AM
Albion's loss to Adrian helped put Hope's win in a better light.  The Bulldogs have snuck up to 6-1 on the young season.  Interesting that Hope opens the new year at St. Mary's with a share for first place on the line.


The Cornerstone game WWWRHH mentioned immediately follows the men's tournament on Saturday at DeVos.  Cornerstone was ranked #14 in last weeks NAIA II poll.  They won all 3 of their games last week to move to 8-3.  You would think they'll move up a little this week. (tommorrow.)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 08, 2008, 09:22:56 AM
Here's to HOPEing that Mo is able to keep the girls focused on CU Saturday night, given that they will have just finished exams, and are headed to Florida the very next day.  I know he can do it, I just expect it might be a little tough.  Should be a good crowd though - since they play at 5:30, right after the men.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 13, 2008, 07:22:35 PM
Whew

Hope 76 Cornerstone 69

Must have been a fun one.  Cornerstone nearly erased a 19 point halftime deficit and trailed by 2 with just 2 minutes left.  They had the ball down 3 twice but Hope pulled away with FT's

Carrie Snikkers with 27 points, 21 rebounds.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: OC_SID on December 13, 2008, 07:55:37 PM
Quote from: sac on December 13, 2008, 07:22:35 PM
Whew

Hope 76 Cornerstone 69

Must have been a fun one.  Cornerstone nearly erased a 19 point halftime deficit and trailed by 2 with just 2 minutes left.  They had the ball down 3 twice but Hope pulled away with FT's

Carrie Snikkers with 27 points, 21 rebounds.

Livestats from the game show Snikkers with 23 rebounds ...

Anyhow, a very interesting day in MIAA women's action:
       Snikkers scores 27, grabs 23 rebounds
       Albion hangs on to beat Calvin, 77-75 ... Albion's Nicole Dennis scores 32, including 25 in first half
       Saint Mary's breaks the MIAA single-game record with 42 free throws made
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 14, 2008, 07:06:04 AM
Not only did Carrie Snikkers have 27 points and 23 rebounds in 27 minutes, she also had four blocks, and for me the most amazing part is she had a double double at halftime, and nearly did it again in the second half.  At the half she had 19 points and 13 rebounds.  Second half - 8 points and 10 rebounds.  If either half was her game total, as a coach you'd be pretty happy.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on December 14, 2008, 09:30:32 AM
have a safe  flight to florida today  have some nice weathear  come back with some more wins
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on December 14, 2008, 11:06:47 AM
Carrie playing against these other young women isn't fair. Since we might describe a dominant male player as "a man among boys" would it be appropriate on the distaff side to describe Carrie, mutatis mutandis, as a woman among girls?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 14, 2008, 12:43:21 PM
Quote from: HopeConvert on December 14, 2008, 11:06:47 AM
Carrie playing against these other young women isn't fair. Since we might describe a dominant male player as "a man among boys" would it be appropriate on the distaff side to describe Carrie, mutatis mutandis, as a woman among girls?
Not sure if that comment would be considered proper or not, but in my book it is spot on.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 15, 2008, 07:38:20 PM
Hope defeated Elmhurst 72-49 at the RDV Sportsplex in Orlando
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 15, 2008, 08:09:13 PM
Thanks for the score FDF, livestats wasn't working.

http://www.hope.edu/pr/athletics/wbb/stats/0809/1215hoel.htm

With Mount Union being afraid of bugs, this was an important in-region win for the Lady Dutch.  Hope gets all 3 outside the conference they could get beating Defiance twice and now Elmhurst.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 15, 2008, 09:02:50 PM
Should be one more in-region game tomorrow, as they are playing Carthage
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on December 15, 2008, 10:12:38 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on December 15, 2008, 09:02:50 PM
Should be one more in-region game tomorrow, as they are playing Carthage

Here we go ...  ::)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 16, 2008, 07:18:06 PM
Quote from: HopeConvert on December 15, 2008, 10:12:38 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on December 15, 2008, 09:02:50 PM
Should be one more in-region game tomorrow, as they are playing Carthage

Here we go ...  ::)

Not to bring up old wounds, but its not listed as in-region on the d3hoops.com schedules and wasn't listed as in-region last season............


this year
http://d3hoops.com/school/HOPE/womens/2009

last year
http://d3hoops.com/school/HOPE/womens/2008

.....it wasn't counted as in-region for the men last year.


Somehow it seems appropriate this game is being played near the Magic Kingdom tonight,  let me know if Tinkerbell was there

Magic Ferry anyone?............<sigh>............die horse die!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 16, 2008, 09:24:41 PM
Of course it wasn't an in-region game last year - we beat Carthage.  Don't you know the Magic Ferry only runs in years when Hope loses to Carthage.     ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 16, 2008, 10:26:39 PM
Way to post the score of the game you flew across the country to see FDF  ::)

Hope 64 Carthage 46

Close one at the half, Dutch hold the Red ..uh women? to 19 second half points.  Philana Green 18, Cowen 13, Bruinsma 10.   Must have played some D on Snikkers, held to 2 points and no FG's.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 17, 2008, 08:51:56 AM
Quote from: sac on December 16, 2008, 10:26:39 PM
Way to post the score of the game you flew across the country to see FDF  ::)

Not me - I'm stuck here in frigid Michigan.  Certain other posters (who shall remain nameless) are down in Florida, and have been providing game, as well as margarita updates.   ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 17, 2008, 11:08:49 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on December 17, 2008, 08:51:56 AM
Quote from: sac on December 16, 2008, 10:26:39 PM
Way to post the score of the game you flew across the country to see FDF  ::)

Not me - I'm stuck here in frigid Michigan.  Certain other posters (who shall remain nameless) are down in Florida, and have been providing game, as well as margarita updates.   ;D

My sincerest apologies, I'm guessing they bounce passed the bill your way though. ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch on December 17, 2008, 11:22:41 AM
Quote from: sac on December 16, 2008, 10:26:39 PM
Way to post the score of the game you flew across the country to see FDF  ::)

Hope 64 Carthage 46

Close one at the half, Dutch hold the Red ..uh women? to 19 second half points.  Philana Green 18, Cowen 13, Bruinsma 10.   Must have played some D on Snikkers, held to 2 points and no FG's.

Carthage packed it inside on Snikkers and Knox.  The starting posts faced at least a double team whenever the ball came inside, and sometimes were triple teamed.  The refs let the Red play very physical to say the least - you can read between the lines if you want.  When the starting posts were not in the game the defense was more straight up.  The Dutch did have a 40-29  rebounding advantage with Knox pulling in 9 (+5 steals) and Snikkers 7.

Adjustments were made at half time - more intense defensive pressure and the posts pulled away from the basket opening up the inside for Greene and giving Cowen some good looks.  Bruinsma found the seams and made some really nice moves.

This was the best the second unit has played.  Defense was consistently strong and the offensive ball rotation was very good.  I think the Dutch are moving closer to a full two unit rotation with no drop off when the second group is on the floor.  Although Kutney only scored 2 points I think it was the best (and relatively foul free) defense I have seen her play.

Carthage is a good team and I think this game should be a wake up call to future opponents.  It may be possible to slow the post players (although I think in most games both 30 and 34 would have been sent to the line a lot more often)  but this is not a one dimensional team and over emphasis on one or two players just opens up opportunities for others.


Congrats to Cowen and Greene (MVP) for being named to the all tournament team.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 17, 2008, 11:53:02 AM
Quote from: sac on December 17, 2008, 11:08:49 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on December 17, 2008, 08:51:56 AM
Quote from: sac on December 16, 2008, 10:26:39 PM
Way to post the score of the game you flew across the country to see FDF  ::)

Not me - I'm stuck here in frigid Michigan.  Certain other posters (who shall remain nameless) are down in Florida, and have been providing game, as well as margarita updates.   ;D

My sincerest apologies, I'm guessing they bounce passed the bill your way though. ;)
But of course
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on December 17, 2008, 03:40:58 PM
nice 2 wins hope girls now come home to cold michigan
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 20, 2008, 07:22:06 PM
Well Albion is doing the best job at making my gushing statements about Hope's win there seem a bit .........foolish. :-[

Albion drops MIAA game #3 of the season 58-52 to Trine.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 22, 2008, 12:12:42 AM
Not sure how often I'll have anything worth posting, but with IWU #2 and Hope #3 (currently), expect me to be at least a regular lurker.

Here's hoping for a meeting at DeVos in March. :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on December 22, 2008, 09:08:04 AM
Quote from: sac on December 20, 2008, 07:22:06 PM
Well Albion is doing the best job at making my gushing statements about Hope's win there seem a bit .........foolish. :-[

Albion drops MIAA game #3 of the season 58-52 to Trine.

sac don't be too hard on yourself.  Although Albion is not as good as they were the last three years, the Dutch did play well on their court.  Looking at comp scores it seems there is broad parity among seven MIAA teams this year and they are sandwiched between the Dutch and Kalamazoo.  Trine and Adrian are much improved teams.

I haven't had a chance to examine every teams record, but it appears that the conference is doing better against non-conference opponents this year.  Albion is 4-1 against non-conference opponents.

The Dutch have also won against some tough opponents recently and at times have played outstanding stretches of ball.  These stretches of really good ball are occuring more frequently and the team is becoming more consistent.  There are no weak links in the top eight players (the other two members of the second rotation are improving), all can score and as the Carthage game showed, if the opponent puts all their effort into shutting down one aspect of the offense it only opens opportunities for other players to take control of the game.

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 22, 2008, 12:12:42 AM
Not sure how often I'll have anything worth posting, but with IWU #2 and Hope #3 (currently), expect me to be at least a regular lurker.

Here's hoping for a meeting at DeVos in March. :)

I am looking forward to the IWU's games against Carthage and Elmhurst so we can get an indication of how IWU and the Dutch match up.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 03, 2009, 04:56:38 PM
bit of shocker today,  St. Mary's 91 Hope 84

St. Mary's now 4-0 and in sole posession of first place, and 6-6 on the season.  Livestats went out for me so I have no details.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on January 03, 2009, 05:17:35 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on November 20, 2008, 11:42:08 AM
My opinion - Hope will win the league again, although I doubt it will be at 16-0. 

Quote from: sac on January 03, 2009, 04:56:38 PM
bit of shocker today,  St. Mary's 91 Hope 84

St. Mary's now 4-0 and in sole posession of first place, and 6-6 on the season.  Livestats went out for me so I have no details.

Didn't take long for FDF to be proven correct on the record part of the equation. If Hope was ripe for an upset, this game was it. Hope hasn't played in 18 days; the Belles played this past Monday and Tuesday (losing both).  A long layoff over the holidays combined with a long road trip game is never a recipe for good hoops.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 03, 2009, 05:42:27 PM
St. Mary's is 90 minutes from Holland..........long?

Carrie Snikkers had 31 points and 11 rbs,  she had 18 at the half.

It was 44-40 at the half, so StM outscored  Hope 51-40 in the second half, and that just isn't Morehouse's defense.  Also St Mary's outscored Hope 13-2 in the final 2:20, Hope went 1-6 from the floor.

http://www.miaa.org/wbb/stats/0809/0103smhc.htm
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 03, 2009, 05:51:06 PM
This was a really big program win for St. Mary's.  Overall Hope was 34-5 against the Belle's all-time.  Since they joined the MIAA in 1999 though, they had never beaten the Dutch.

1999 Hope 81, Saint Mary's 53
1999 Hope 75, Saint Mary's 60

2000 Hope 72, Saint Mary's 45
2000 Hope 87, Saint Mary's 54
2001 Hope 75, Saint Mary's 51
2001 Hope 62, Saint Mary's 46
2001 Hope 95, Saint Mary's 48
2002 Hope 73, Saint Mary's 56
2002 Hope 74, Saint Mary's 64
2003 Hope 90, Saint Mary's 73
2003 Hope 77, Saint Mary's 37
2003 Hope 77, Saint Mary's 50
2004 Hope 71, Saint Mary's 51
2004 Hope 92, Saint Mary's 72
2005 Hope 78, Saint Mary's 64
2005 Hope 61, Saint Mary's 48
2006 Hope 77, Saint Mary's 38
2006 Hope 91, Saint Mary's 66
2007 Hope 67, Saint Mary's 42
2007 Hope 79, Saint Mary's 71
2007 Hope 71, Saint Mary's 52
2008 Hope 75, Saint Mary's 58
2008 Hope 82, Saint Mary's 73
2008 Hope 82, Saint Mary's 65


24 in a row as a member of the MIAA.


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: OC_SID on January 03, 2009, 07:30:08 PM
Quote from: sac on January 03, 2009, 05:51:06 PM
This was a really big program win for St. Mary's.  Overall Hope was 34-5 against the Belle's all-time.  Since they joined the MIAA in 1999 though, they had never beaten the Dutch.

24 in a row as a member of the MIAA.


Earlier this season, Saint Mary's also beat Calvin for the first time in school history, a streak of 29 games!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 04, 2009, 10:05:23 PM
Quote from: OC_SID on January 03, 2009, 07:30:08 PM
Quote from: sac on January 03, 2009, 05:51:06 PM
This was a really big program win for St. Mary's.  Overall Hope was 34-5 against the Belle's all-time.  Since they joined the MIAA in 1999 though, they had never beaten the Dutch.

24 in a row as a member of the MIAA.


Earlier this season, Saint Mary's also beat Calvin for the first time in school history, a streak of 29 games!

Hadn't realized that, obviously the Belle's are breaking barriers this year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 07, 2009, 10:39:37 PM
Well, it took awhile, but the Calvin women got a win in the new fieldhouse against Trine.  Not sure of the final numbers, but the attendance sounded pretty good.  I know Calvin wanted to set a new D3 womwn's attendance record, and sort of figured it would happen in Feb. when Hope comes to town.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on January 08, 2009, 10:33:50 AM
Following the Flying Dutch loss to St. Mary's on Sat., they made sure that there would not be 2 losses in a row when they destroyed Kalamazoo on Wed., 103-44.

The article in the Holland Sentinel stated that the Flying Dutch have not lost two games in a row since 10 years ago.  Ten years since the last losing streak?   Could that be right?  If so, that is VERY impressive.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 08, 2009, 02:46:20 PM
St. Mary's continues to be the feel good story of the MIAA beating 9-2 Adrian last night 74-69 at Adrian.

St. Mary's hosts 3-1 Alma this Saturday in yet another big matchup.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 11, 2009, 12:22:26 AM
St. Mary's stomped Alma 69-47 to remain in 1st place
http://www.miaa.org/wbb/stats/0809/0110smac.htm

St. Mary's hosts Albion Wed. and is off next Saturday

Hope hosts Calvin and Olivet next week.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on January 14, 2009, 11:18:35 PM
With the men's team at Adrian, I passed on the opportunity to visit beautiful Lenawee County in Janaury, and I attended the Lady Knights' visit in Holland. After a nice meal at HBC with Mrs. OK, we found our way to DeVos where I was wondering if we would 1) see Marcia Harris play, and 2) be treated to a competitive game. The answer to both was a resounding "No." Once I saw Harris in street clothes I knew this wasn't likely to be a good night (not goodknight) for the Calvin women. I was right.

I've mentioned before that Jenny Cowen was easily the best athlete on Hope's team and her full array of talents were on display tonight. In the first 13 minutes of the game she scored 16 of her game high 20, set up other scores with terrific passes, grabbed several boards, interrupted Calvin passing lanes, and created general havoc with the Knights offense. To be sure she had some help, but her consistent play on both ends set the tone for the game. An undersized Calvin squad was never in this one. I truly respect Brook VanEck who--at 5'8"--fearlessly plays down low, game after game and does a good job doing so. But on most nights she is only giving up 3-4 inches, not the the 6-7 inch differential she had tonight. That's just too much height to overcome.

Calvin sophomore Kacy Cryderman started the second half and did a nice job for the Lady Knights. If Harris won't be playing, Kacy will have to be playing more. I like the girl. She has nice size, is strong (she sets great off-the-ball screens), has a decent shot and is a good athlete.

This is the first game I've seen Hope's women play this year and their starting five is every bit as good as last year's. However, the Hope bench is not as strong as last year when the second team seemed every bit as good as the starters. As long as Morehouse has 2 or 3 subs he can regularly count on it won't make any difference. You can only put five on the floor at one time anyway.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on January 14, 2009, 11:19:32 PM
Women's Basketball
Adrian 57, Alma 50
Trine 51, Olivet 34
Albion 77, Saint Mary's 72
Hope 73, Calvin 49


Thanks Albion!  :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: OC_SID on January 15, 2009, 12:58:49 PM
Quote from: Flea on January 14, 2009, 08:24:26 PM
at half ::

Trine 51
Olivet 34


That was the final score for Olivet and Trine!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 15, 2009, 02:18:50 PM
Quote from: OC_SID on January 15, 2009, 12:58:49 PM
Quote from: Flea on January 14, 2009, 08:24:26 PM
at half ::

Trine 51
Olivet 34


That was the final score for Olivet and Trine!!

Wow, those defenses were tough in the second half! :o ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 16, 2009, 04:40:06 PM
Hope coach Brian Morehouse is sitting on 299 wins and 58 losses, with a win over Olivet he hits the 300 win milestone, in just under 13 seasons.  They don't keep track of fastest to '300' for the women, but I have to believe thats among the fastest to accomplish that feat in both games and years.

For pespective, Glenn VanWieren the Hope men's coach, reached 300 wins in his 17th season or 403rd game.


Brian's teams' winning % put him #7 on the current list of all-time active coaches for winning % in all divisions.........right behind Geno Auriema, UConn and Pat Summit, Tennessee.........thats some heady company folks.  He's currently #3 in D3.   I believe Brian will turn 40 sometime in 2009 which leaves alot of time to move up the elustrious list of all-time women's coaches.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on January 18, 2009, 09:46:04 AM
nice job hope girls and to coach mo for getting his 300  win saturday it was nice to watch keep it going
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 19, 2009, 02:15:48 PM
As hope1 said Brian Morehouse reached win #300 Saturday, I'm sure this picture is hanging somewhere in the Morehouse office or household.

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hope.edu%2Fimg%2F355%2Fwbasketball%2F09Morehouse300win.jpg&hash=296d005d4aa5bb9758ee9523be876798bb7a2ade)

Those girls were really excited.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on January 21, 2009, 07:53:13 AM
Today's Sentinel summarizes tonight's matchup between Hope and Adrian. Among other things it lists "Key Players."

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/sports/x497799554/TIPOFF-Flying-Dutch-play-at-Adrian

Apparently being the leading scorer, rebounder and shot blocker on your team isn't enough to be listed as a Key Player. ???
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 21, 2009, 11:01:02 AM
Quote from: oldknight on January 21, 2009, 07:53:13 AM
Today's Sentinel summarizes tonight's matchup between Hope and Adrian. Among other things it lists "Key Players."

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/sports/x497799554/TIPOFF-Flying-Dutch-play-at-Adrian

Apparently being the leading scorer, rebounder and shot blocker on your team isn't enough to be listed as a Key Player. ???

She's been slumping?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on January 21, 2009, 11:05:22 AM
Quote from: sac on January 21, 2009, 11:01:02 AM
Quote from: oldknight on January 21, 2009, 07:53:13 AM
Today's Sentinel summarizes tonight's matchup between Hope and Adrian. Among other things it lists "Key Players."

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/sports/x497799554/TIPOFF-Flying-Dutch-play-at-Adrian

Apparently being the leading scorer, rebounder and shot blocker on your team isn't enough to be listed as a Key Player. ???

She's been slumping?

Quote from: oldknight on November 23, 2008, 05:34:27 PM


In part because of her outrageous talent, Carrie does have a tendency to coast when the opponent isn't challenging her or her team. But I have seen her play a lot and can tell you that she has often bailed out her team when the game was close and the hour was late.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on January 21, 2009, 12:36:03 PM
A busy work schedule has kept me away from the board for a while, but I am going to make time to put my 2 cents in on this topic.

oldknight, I do not know the Sentinel's process for selecting the "key players" for each game.  However, it is always four players so one starter is left out each game and this time it is Carrie.  However, I wouldn't get too excited about the oversight, and intentional or not there is a certain logic to emphasizing the importance of performances from the rest of the team.

Carrie had two monster games against Cornerstone and St. Mary's.  The Cornerstone game almost slipped away and the St. Mary's game did.  But when she scored 2 against Carthage, 6 vs. Calvin, and 0 in the last game (Olivet) the Dutch managed to win each game with ease due to strong performances from several team mates.

Everyone knows what Snikkers is capable of doing on a given night, but to be successful in the Hope system the team needs balance.  Carrie is not super woman and can be slowed if the oppositon devotes enough effort to doing so.  The rest of the players need to step up and take advantage of the attention she draws from opposing teams, and Snikkers must recognize how to take advantage of the situation.

The Calvin game was a good example.  Calvin packed the zone in tight and Cowen lit it up from the outside.  Greene and Kopke also bettered their scoring averages.  As soon as Calvin tried to switch to "man", Carrie posted up and reminded them why that wasn't a good idea. At the other end, Knox and Bruinsma's ability to guard Van Eck on the perimeter took away the Knights best scoring option.  (Just a side note....Knox's success in guarding smaller forwards has been a pleasant surprise.)

Rather, than Carrie slumping or coasting I think she is beginning to learn how to play within the system, take what comes her way and be content when the team succeeds.  Her unselfishness in the last few games shows she understands how to make her team stronger and I am sure she is a lot less concerned with what the newspapers say than any of the posters on this board.

Moving on to an old topic....

I could point to a number of "reasons" for the St. Mary's loss - ticky tack reffing, long lay off, "lucky" shots and Geers injury causing disruption to the rotation.  However, there also seemed to be a lack of intensity, the killer instinct needed to put away a dangerous opponent early was missing, and there may have been an over reliance on Snikkers to carry the team.  Although going undefeated is always a goal, I think that defeat refocused the team.   The Dutch are playing thier best basketball of the season and I look forward to the rematch on the 31st.




Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: fannie on January 28, 2009, 10:56:17 AM
Can some one help me understand the "substitution time-outs" that Coach Morehouse uses.....are these charged as "time-outs", when can he use them, is this a new rule? 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 28, 2009, 11:42:40 AM
Quote from: fannie on January 28, 2009, 10:56:17 AM
Can some one help me understand the "substitution time-outs" that Coach Morehouse uses.....are these charged as "time-outs", when can he use them, is this a new rule? 

This is really nothing new.  Coaches can use a timeout (one of their alloted timeouts) to simply put in substitutes.  It's a method of stopping the clock so the substitutions can be made.   It's typically only used at toward the end of a game which is a blowout, and the coach is trying to get as much playing time as possible for his players.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on January 29, 2009, 04:46:35 PM
The St. Mary's - Hope game is the biggest MIAA game of the season, and the Dutch's most important conference game since the tourney championship against Calvin in '06.

The Belles beat the Dutch in the first meeting, but subsquently lost to Albion leaving the teams tied with a conference record of 8-1.  The winner is likely to have home court advantage throughout the conference tournament.

Although comp scores since the loss indicate that Hope should be able to win comfortably own their on floor I expect it to be another tough game.  St. Mary's comes closest to having the (skilled) size to match up with Snikkers, Knox, Bruinsma,et. al, and their big players have a nice outside touch which can stretch Hope's defense.

And defense will be the key.  In the first game St. Mary's scored 91 - 35 more than the average opponent. 

The Hope starters played much of the game in foul (19 total) trouble  and played an ineffective zone for much of the second half in order to keep their scorers on the floor.  They were not able to generate ball pressure and St. Mary's found the gaps and hit some jumpers.

I expect Hope to be better prepared if they have to go to a zone, get called for far fewer fouls, and win by double digits.  However, the Belles will come prepared and the game will be hard fought.

A big crowd like last Saturday wouldn't hurt.  Hopefully a lot of fans will attend both games and help cheer the women to victory.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on January 29, 2009, 05:14:46 PM
I only saw the last part of St. Mary's overtime win over Calvin last night (the Lady Knights' third OT game at VanNoord this month), and I will be very surprised if the Belles come away from DeVos with a victory Saturday. Admittedly I didn't see a lot on which to base an opinion, but the Hope women clearly are have a more talented group than does St. Mary's.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 30, 2009, 11:56:51 AM
Quote from: WWWRHH on January 29, 2009, 04:46:35 PM
A big crowd like last Saturday wouldn't hurt.  Hopefully a lot of fans will attend both games and help cheer the women to victory.

I suspect the crowd will be a good size - lots of people looking forward to this rematch.  Heck the JV game will even help, as they will be playing against a Hope alum team that includes at least 4 of the starters for the 06 National Cahampionship team (Bria Ebels, Linda Ebels Phillips, Julie Henderson, Jordyn Boles)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on January 30, 2009, 06:23:37 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on January 30, 2009, 11:56:51 AM
Quote from: WWWRHH on January 29, 2009, 04:46:35 PM
A big crowd like last Saturday wouldn't hurt.  Hopefully a lot of fans will attend both games and help cheer the women to victory.

I suspect the crowd will be a good size - lots of people looking forward to this rematch.  Heck the JV game will even help, as they will be playing against a Hope alum team that includes at least 4 of the starters for the 06 National Cahampionship team (Bria Ebels, Linda Ebels Phillips, Julie Henderson, Jordyn Boles)

Here's a little incentive for coming to the games tomorrow:

Someone very dear to me is sponsoring (via her business) the women's game.  This means in part that you could be one of several lucky winners of an item produced by her business.  The only question for you is, what does her business produce?  Come to the game and find out.  (No, she is not a jeweler.)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on January 30, 2009, 08:20:22 PM
yes i   hope that is a lot of people for the girls game to watch the old players play the jv at  1.00  and stay after to watch the men play at  7.30  please fill the devoss
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on January 31, 2009, 05:54:50 PM
I took in Hope's easy 84-59 win this afternoon over St. Mary's.  Snikkers immediately set the pace for this game by scoring 9 points in the first four and half minutes of play and grabbing several rebounds. She and Knox established themeselves on the interior all game and pretty much swept the boards. Cowen played her usual hard nosed, high octane style of ball, hitting a pair of threes about midway through the half to open up a comfortable lead, and the Belles never challenged. The second half saw more of the same and St. Mary's was never in this one. At one point, Hope led 68-32, before Morehouse called off the hounds. Snikkers led with 21 and 10, and Cowen added 15, going 3-6 from behind the arc.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 01, 2009, 01:50:45 AM
It should be pointed out St. Mary's was missing a couple girls in this one, most noteably Nichole Beier who put 25 up the first time, and also starter Erin Newsome who scored 14 the first time.  Both go 6-2, 6-0.

They were alot more shorthanded than I thought even at the game.

With that said, Hope was pretty sharp for most of the game.   Philana Green had 0 points and Hope won by 25.  That says something.


A rematch in the MIAA tournament with both at full strength would be nice to see.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 01, 2009, 02:24:29 PM
Quote from: sac on February 01, 2009, 01:50:45 AM
It should be pointed out St. Mary's was missing a couple girls in this one, most noteably Nichole Beier who put 25 up the first time, and also starter Erin Newsome who scored 14 the first time.  Both go 6-2, 6-0.

They were alot more shorthanded than I thought even at the game.

With that said, Hope was pretty sharp for most of the game.   Philana Green had 0 points and Hope won by 25.  That says something.

A rematch in the MIAA tournament with both at full strength would be nice to see.

A minor correction....Erin Newsome did start and play, but she was held in check by Hope's starters.  Knox was able to play defense on the starter without picking up early fouls.  The Dutch established their inside dominance early against the Belles starting front line.  Beire's absence did hurt St. Mary's (she averages 11 pts. and 3 rbs.), but I do not think she would have made a major difference in the outcome.  Most of her points in South Bend came in the second half against Hope's zone which they did not employ yesterday.

However, starting guard #15 Patsy Mahoney did not play and she scored 18 in the first match.  Her replacement Maggie Ronan only scored 2 yesterday vs. 11 in the previous game.  If both missing players had been available, it is likely that the score would have been closer and Hope's starters would not have spent most of the second half on the bench.

I do agree that a full strength rematch would be a great game and I am happy that it will likely take place in Holland.  However, if Knox and Snikkers control the inside and the team plays defense with yesterday's intensity, I think the outcome will be similar.



Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 01, 2009, 02:34:13 PM
The rebounding displayed by the ladies yesterday was absolutely amazing - especially Knowx on the offensive side.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 01, 2009, 05:52:38 PM
Quote from: WWWRHH on February 01, 2009, 02:24:29 PM
Quote from: sac on February 01, 2009, 01:50:45 AM
It should be pointed out St. Mary's was missing a couple girls in this one, most noteably Nichole Beier who put 25 up the first time, and also starter Erin Newsome who scored 14 the first time.  Both go 6-2, 6-0.

They were alot more shorthanded than I thought even at the game.

With that said, Hope was pretty sharp for most of the game.   Philana Green had 0 points and Hope won by 25.  That says something.

A rematch in the MIAA tournament with both at full strength would be nice to see.

A minor correction....Erin Newsome did start and play, but she was held in check by Hope's starters.  Knox was able to play defense on the starter without picking up early fouls.  The Dutch established their inside dominance early against the Belles starting front line.  Beire's absence did hurt St. Mary's (she averages 11 pts. and 3 rbs.), but I do not think she would have made a major difference in the outcome.  Most of her points in South Bend came in the second half against Hope's zone which they did not employ yesterday.

However, starting guard #15 Patsy Mahoney did not play and she scored 18 in the first match.  Her replacement Maggie Ronan only scored 2 yesterday vs. 11 in the previous game.  If both missing players had been available, it is likely that the score would have been closer and Hope's starters would not have spent most of the second half on the bench.

I do agree that a full strength rematch would be a great game and I am happy that it will likely take place in Holland.  However, if Knox and Snikkers control the inside and the team plays defense with yesterday's intensity, I think the outcome will be similar.





Thanks for the correction.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on February 02, 2009, 03:36:42 PM
Congrats to Carrie Snikkers on being named this week's Player of the Week!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: cmlundy on February 04, 2009, 01:00:22 PM
Has anyone seen the schedule for the finals in March.

Semis 4/6
finals 10 and 1.

Seems like bad scheduling to me????
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 04, 2009, 04:33:09 PM
Quote from: cmlundy on February 04, 2009, 01:00:22 PM
Has anyone seen the schedule for the finals in March.

Semis 4/6
finals 10 and 1.

Seems like bad scheduling to me????

Hmmmm, can't say a reason but it does put the  D3 women's and men's Championship games back-to-back, so perhaps Television was a factor?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope81 on February 07, 2009, 10:11:37 AM
Television is indeed the reason for the weird starts.  CSTV (or the NCAA) is trying for "championship Saturday".  They want to run the 2 women's games, the two men's games, and I think hockey finals all back to back as live events.  Thus the strange times on Saturday.  Those strange times drive the earlier games on Friday as well.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 08, 2009, 01:36:57 PM
It's just an amazing story about Calvin's Marcia Harris, who saw her first action in nearly 6 weeks to spark the Lady Knights to an 88-81 win over Adrian yesterday. Despite the fact that Harris only completed one full practice since her December 30 injury, she pumped in 28 points against the Bulldogs in only 16 minutes of action. Here's a link to the story:

http://www.calvin.edu/sports/news/comments/return-by-harris-sparks-womens-basketball-team-to-win-at-adrian/

The Lady Knights entertain Hope for a Homecoming game at VanNoord on February 22 and I expect it will be quite well attended. If Harris is healthy and in game shape by then, it could be an entertaining afternoon.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 09, 2009, 08:55:54 AM
I am glad to see Harris back in the line up.  It is never good to see someone lose their senior season to an injury.

I agree that Calvin with Harris will provide Hope a better game than the first match up.  She will certainly provide a credible inside threat and keep either Snikkers or Knox occupied.  (I suspect that Snikkers will draw the assignment and Knox will remain on Van Eck.)

I still expect Hope to win since they have more offensive options, are stronger on the boards, and are deeper than the Knights .  However, if both Harris and Van Eck are playing well nothing can be taken for granted. 

Hope needs to be challenged and the bigs need to face good inside play.  Easy 30 - 40 point victories are not good preparation for the post season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: section7 on February 09, 2009, 02:44:24 PM
Congrats to Marcia Harris on her return.  Always like her as a player.

What was amazing, assuming the stats are correct, she scored 28 pts on 16 shots in 16 minutes.

Appears foul trouble may have been a factor, but either way, that is fillin it.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 09, 2009, 11:09:02 PM
http://www.hollandsentinel.com/news/x84119828/Leadership-of-Hope-basketball-player-inspires-Chicken-Soup-for-the-Soul-story

"Story" from the sentinel, sound like an interesting book to thumb through.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 11, 2009, 05:12:28 PM
In spite a relatively weak strength of schedule ranking (est to be 323 out 424 by D3hoops) Hope is ranked #2 in the region behind DePauw.

http://www.ncaa.com/auto_pdf/p_hotos/s_chools/ncaa/sports/w-baskbl/auto_pdf/Rankings-DIIIWBB-21109

This being an odd numbered year, where women's team have home court preference over men's teams, Hope may finally have the opportunity to get the first two rounds of the NCAAs at home.

Of course, they have some real gamies to get through first with Trine playing better and Harris back for Calvin.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Darryl Nester on February 13, 2009, 09:37:28 AM
Pardon the intrusion to your board ... I've been working on a program I wrote a couple of years ago to analyze scenarios for the HCAC standings, trying to extend it so that it could do a similar analysis for any other conference.  I posted results to the CCIW board yesterday, and thought I'd now submit the same to the MIAA.

The first table below summarizes current standings and remaining games.  The second table lists--as a percentage of all possible outcomes for the remaining games--the final seeding for each team.  These are not probabilities (unless you believe that each team has an equal likelihood of winning each game).

I assumed in making this table that your conference's tie-breaking procedure was the same as those of the HCAC (the MIAA page does not have an obvious discussion of tie-breakers).


TeamOverall  Home  Away  Remaining Games
Hope12-17-05-1vs. Adrian, @ Olivet, @ Calvin
St. Mary's (Ind.)12-26-16-1@ Albion, vs. Kzoo
Trine8-64-24-4vs. Alma, vs. Calvin
Calvin7-64-23-4vs. Olivet, @ Trine, vs. Hope
Adrian6-74-32-4@ Hope, vs. Kzoo, @ Alma
Albion6-73-33-4vs. SMC, @ Alma, vs. Olivet
Alma6-73-33-4@ Trine, vs. Albion, vs. Adrian
Olivet3-102-51-5@ Calvin, vs. Hope, @ Albion
Kalamazoo0-140-80-6@ Adrian, @ SMC



Team    #1  #2  #3  #4  #5  #6  #7  #8  #9 
Hope
55.88%44.12%--------------
SMC
44.12%55.88%--------------
Trine
----43.38%32.20%16.89%7.23%0.29%----
Calvin
----39.33%23.66%20.61%11.67%4.74%----
Adrian
----4.30%17.72%27.64%28.71%20.46%1.17%--
Albion
----2.27%13.21%19.78%32.03%31.64%1.07%--
Alma
----10.72%13.21%15.09%19.97%41.02%----
Olivet
----------0.39%1.86%97.75%--
Kzoo
----------------100.00%
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 13, 2009, 03:37:11 PM
Quote from: Darryl Nester on February 13, 2009, 09:37:28 AM

The first table below summarizes current standings and remaining games.  The second table lists--as a percentage of all possible outcomes for the remaining games--the final seeding for each team.  These are not probabilities (unless you believe that each team has an equal likelihood of winning each game).


Thanks for the update....it is interesting to see how competitive the race still is for the third and fourth seeds.

Which leads to my next thought - Trine is an obviously much improved team over last year, but also over the beginning of this year.  Based on what I saw Wednesday night, their recent run of conference victories was no fluke.  The new coach has them playing well and doing the right thing at an intensity level that previous Thunder teams did not exhibit.  They pushed Hope and in the end were just overwhelmed by the size and strength of Snikkers, Greene and Knox.  If they are able to recruit some size over the next couple of years they could become real contenders.

Recent coaching changes at Trine and St. Mary's are changing the conference landscape and will make things more challenging for the Dutch and that is a good thing.  Easy 25 point victories make it hard to prepare for the post season.  On the other hand, with the graduation of Harris and Van Eck I believe that Calvin will spend some time away from the upper half of the conference unless the next recruiting class is very strong.

After the first Calvin game, oldknight said "This is the first game I've seen Hope's women play this year and their starting five is every bit as good as last year's. However, the Hope bench is not as strong as last year when the second team seemed every bit as good as the starters. As long as Morehouse has 2 or 3 subs he can regularly count on it won't make any difference. You can only put five on the floor at one time anyway."

At that time, I tended to moderately disagree with him.  I didn't think this year's second rotation had quite the scoring punch as last year's team (you won't find scorers like Snikkers, Cowen and Knox or a point guard as strong as Kopke playing second unit on most teams) but after seeing the lack of scoring against Trine's tough D by the second rotation I am beginning to see what he meant.

For those that missed the game, the score was deceiving.  Trine pushed Hope for 33 minutes and Hope basically won because the three mentioned above scored 70% of the Dutch's points and were just so much bigger and / or stronger than anyone on the Thunder roster.

Last year Hope's first unit averaged 36.5 points per game and the second unit was close behind with 33.4.  This year, the first five put in 48.9 per game compared to the second units 22.4.  All of the starting five average more than 20 mins. a game and last year just three did.

This year's second rotation is very good defensively, but as a group do not have as much offensive punch.  Bruinsma and DeKuiper are fairly reliable scorers and Geers is a very good defender. Cerone, Phillips and Kutney show a lot of promise, but overall the group  just is not yet as experienced and polished as their counterparts from last years team.

When games are tough in the tourneys, I think Morehouse will be less likely to substitute five at a time and more likely rotate in the second unit a couple at a time to play along side starters.  This approach will work fine and most teams will be less talented, but foul trouble could make for some tense situations if two or more starters have to sit out for long periods together.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Darryl Nester on February 14, 2009, 10:08:21 PM
Updated with today's results:

TeamOverall  Home  Away  Remaining Games
Hope13-18-05-1@ Olivet, @ Calvin
St. Mary's (Ind.)12-36-16-2vs. Kzoo
Trine9-65-24-4vs. Calvin
Calvin8-65-23-4@ Trine, vs. Hope
Albion7-74-33-4@ Alma, vs. Olivet
Adrian6-84-32-5vs. Kzoo, @ Alma
Alma6-83-33-5vs. Albion, vs. Adrian
Olivet3-112-51-6vs. Hope, @ Albion
Kalamazoo0-140-80-6@ Adrian, @ SMC



Team    #1  #2  #3  #4  #5  #6  #7  #8  #9 
Hope
89.06%10.94%--------------
St. Mary's (Ind.)
10.94%89.06%--------------
Trine
----50.00%50.00%----------
Calvin
----50.00%29.69%17.19%3.12%------
Albion
------17.19%45.31%31.25%6.25%----
Alma
------3.12%12.50%26.56%57.81%----
Adrian
--------25.00%39.06%35.94%----
Olivet
--------------100.00%--
Kalamazoo
----------------100.00%
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on February 15, 2009, 09:59:45 AM
the girls played a good game yesterday vs adrian and hope played all the players that was nice to see. and a great crowd to show to see the seniors play her last home regular seasson home game
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 17, 2009, 12:53:14 AM
It was great to see the Hope women go all out with the pink uniforms Saturday.  What an awesome thing that cause has turned out to be around college basketball.

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hollandsentinel.com%2Farchive%2Fx602818862%2Fg1130bf218f6cc65de24dd921728e4bcba5d9783a51ced6.jpg&hash=1dab470077840b960503bdc99684a52242930ef6)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on February 17, 2009, 09:59:48 AM
i hope a lot of fans go to the calvin game saturday  brian said yesterday it will be the toughest team they will face saturday with harris back for calvin she is playing good at  2.00  the jv afterward the varsity game
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 17, 2009, 12:34:55 PM
With St. Mary's struggling due to injuries to Beier and Mahoney, Calvin is the best team remaining on the schedule prior to the post season tourney.  Although Calvin played Olivet on Saturday and Hope plays Olivet on Wednesday, the comp scores will not provide much insight into how the Dutch and Knights will match up.  As I said in a previous post, Harris and Van Eck together will provide a challenge for Snikkers and Knox inside.

I think Harris and Van Eck will score fewer points against the Dutch than they have in other games since Harris returned, but when playing defense Knox and Snikkers height advantage will be somewhat mitigated by Calvin's post players athleticism.  On the other hand, it will remain a huge challenge for Calvin to keep Hope off the boards.  I am looking forward to a good game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on February 19, 2009, 08:10:07 AM
good job last night girls keep it up now a tough game at calvin
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 19, 2009, 01:15:05 PM
The Dutch have gained the #1 regional ranking with DePauw's recent loss to Centre.

If the team can make it through this weekend and next week's conference tourney unscathed, they have a good chance of hosting each weekend of the tourney.

http://www.ncaa.com/auto_pdf/p_hotos/s_chools/ncaa/sports/w-baskbl/auto_pdf/Rankings-DIIIWBB-21809

Since the men are playing at Trine I expect to see the Hope fan base show up in GR for the Calvin game Saturday.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: fannie on February 19, 2009, 08:08:31 PM
Is there any information out regarding dates and game times for next weeks MIAA tournament?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 20, 2009, 11:31:28 AM
Quote from: fannie on February 19, 2009, 08:08:31 PM
Is there any information out regarding dates and game times for next weeks MIAA tournament?

The games will be held on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday and played on the higer seeds court.  The Dutch will have home court advantage as the #1 seed.

As far as I know, game times have not been annouced, but week night games are generally played at 7:30 and Saturday games at 3:00.

Tourney match ups are not at all clear at this point.  Hope will face the winner of the Olivet or Kalamazoo play-in game.  Although K has not won this year, they do have a chance of pulling an upset.

On Saturday, if Hope beats Calvin (likely, but not a lock), Albion prevails over Olivet (very probable) and Alma defeats Adrian (mild upset), three teams - Calvin, Trine and Albion - will finish 9-7, and two teams - Adrian and Alma - will close the season at 7-9.

Since I remain employed, I am not going to try to figure out the potential tie breakers and seedings while here at the office.  However, it looks like there is a strong possiblity that the Dutch could face 2 of the 3  teams that have been playing the best recently:  Calvin, Trine and Albion in the tournament. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: OC_SID on February 20, 2009, 01:11:00 PM
Quote from: WWWRHH on February 20, 2009, 11:31:28 AM
Quote from: fannie on February 19, 2009, 08:08:31 PM
Is there any information out regarding dates and game times for next weeks MIAA tournament?


Tourney match ups are not at all clear at this point.  Hope will face the winner of the Olivet or Kalamazoo play-in game.  Although K has not won this year, they do have a chance of pulling an upset.


There is no play-in game this year, so Hope is locked in to play Olivet on Tuesday night at 7:30 p.m.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 20, 2009, 02:07:57 PM
Thanks for the clarification OC_SID. 

The elimination of the play-in game is certainly better from an academic stand point in that it eliminates the need for back to back games by a team.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on February 20, 2009, 10:56:28 PM
I have been following the MIAA women's and men's boards for about a year, and have finally mustered up enough courage to venture a post of my own.   Therefore, I would ask everyone to please bear in mind King David's admonition to his military chief Joab, i.e., "Deal gently for my sake with the young man, even with Absalom."

I saw a picture in today's Holland Senile showing a Unity Christian player named Steffani Snikkers [ http://www.hollandsentinel.com/sports/x1658749593/Chix-rout-Unity-Christian?view=pop&photo=0 ] .  Can anyone tell me if she is a sister or relative of Carrie Snikkers and what are her basketball talents?  Just thinking ahead......

thanks

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 21, 2009, 08:35:31 AM
Quote from: wwjjdd on February 20, 2009, 10:56:28 PM
I have been following the MIAA women's and men's boards for about a year, and have finally mustered up enough courage to venture a post of my own.   Therefore, I would ask everyone to please bear in mind King David's admonition to his military chief Joab, i.e., "Deal gently for my sake with the young man, even with Absalom."

I saw a picture in today's Holland Senile showing a Unity Christian player named Steffani Snikkers [ http://www.hollandsentinel.com/sports/x1658749593/Chix-rout-Unity-Christian?view=pop&photo=0 ] .  Can anyone tell me if she is a sister or relative of Carrie Snikkers and what are her basketball talents?  Just thinking ahead......

thanks



Welcome to the board. Fear not, I've already granted you my standard courtesy applause just for showing up.

Steffani Snikkers is indeed Carrie's younger sister and a freshmen at Hudsonville Unity Christian. Steffani is not yet a starter but she does play quite a bit on the varsity and averages about 4-5 points per game. Her high school team is pretty inexperienced and has struggled this season but I think there are better days ahead for them. At 5'10" Steffani is not as tall as her older sister who was a varsity starter from her first game as a 9th  grader. But Steffani has good court sense, ball-handling skills and a fundamentally sound shot. It's a lot to ask that she be as dominating as her sister--and she won't be--but I expect she will be a solid high school player over the next three years.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on February 21, 2009, 02:40:16 PM
Quote from: hope1 on February 19, 2009, 08:10:07 AM
good job last night girls keep it up now a tough game at calvin


the hope girls play home tuesday  night at  7.30    general seating  then if they win play thuresday night home to the tickets are on sale at the devoss ticket office
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on February 21, 2009, 02:46:26 PM
the hope girls at beating calvin at half time hope  39  to   27
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 21, 2009, 05:08:49 PM
Hope wins 68-65, great game from Jenny Cowen, 26 points, including the go ahead 3 with under a minute to go.

attendance = 3175
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 21, 2009, 08:54:53 PM
In what was truly one of the best D3 women's contests I've ever seen, an undermanned, but game and gritty Lady Knights squad nearly pulled off a major upset for Calvin's Homecoming game at VanNoord Arena this afternoon. It was obvious from the opening tip that Calvin was playing with great passion, something they needed to do the entire 40 minutes to stay in the game against Hope's rare combination of large and talented players. Hope had to know this was going to be a different kind of game when they were unable to score a field goal until the 16:28 mark with Knox scoring on a putback. Calvin did something desperate and surprising--at least to me--by full court pressing the Hope squad from the start and never wavering in doing so, even when Hope made several layups and short jumpers in the first half to build a 39-27 halftime lead. It's rare to see 40 minutes of full court pressing but that's what Calvin did this afternoon, even though I would have thought that Hope was not the type of team with whom that strategy would work. What made it work was Calvin's relentless commitment to their strategy and it eventually wore down Hope both mentally and physically.

At half I remarked to my wife that Calvin reminded me of that pesky little junkyard dog who seemed to think it was the toughest animal in the neighborhood and just wouldn't stop barking at you. I was wondering if the Lady Knights would run out of gas in the second half but it appeared to me that it was Hope who began leaking some oil first (I know, a poor pairing of metaphors). Calvin narrowed the gap behind some excellent floor play from senior Krisit Brummel and freshmen Jill Thomas, and combined with the willingness of Marcia Harris and Brook VanEck (I'd love to go to war with the bulldog from Lowell) to challenge Hope's bigs inside, Calvin slowly but surely closed the gap. When Ottenhof hit a triple at the 3 minute mark to give Calvin a 61-58 lead, even the most staid of Calvinists got off their seats to roar approval.

Jenny Cowen, who was primarily responsible for building Hope's first half lead then took over, scoring 7 of the last 10 for Hope. The most important of these was her 3 ball from the corner at the 46 second mark with the game tied at 63. Cowen then displayed more ice water in the veins by hitting 2 free throws with 19 seconds left to put Hope back up by the final margin. Partridge's surprisingly open 3 at the buzzer went wide and the game ended without Calvin going into yet another overtime game at VanNoord.

The most amazing statistic to me was that despite being outsized by several inches at every inside position, the Lady Knights outrebounded Hope 47-45, getting an incredible 19 offensive boards. Morehouse can't be happy about that. Calvin simply outworked Hope and grabbed virtually every loose ball in the second half. There's simply no excuse for the fact that Brook VanEck at 5'8" got 9 rebounds--more than either Snikkers or Knox. This game was a good and needed test for Hope who have had too many easy wins this year. The game had a tournament quality intensity to it that Hope needs to match if they expect reach the Final Four.

The player of the game really was Cowen, scoring 26 on 8-16 from the floor, 6 of 7 from the stripe, and hustling her way to a team high 9 boards. She repeatedly made big plays for Hope and if she hadn't been on the floor Calvin would have won this game by double digits. I've often said that while she's easily the best athlete on Hope's team, it's her hard nosed, competitive, never-say-die attitude that makes her excel. She's a joy to watch. The crowd was large and very noisy and this made for an exciting afternoon. For those of you who missed today's action, it was as exciting as the men's game at the same venue last week.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: fannie on February 21, 2009, 09:32:42 PM
Could not have said it any better oldknight..........it was a fun game to watch.  Hope NEEDED that kind of game to ready them for hopefully a nice post-season run.......the full court press seemed to be "key" for Calvin's success this afternoon.  This weeks up-coming tourney could prove interesting!!!!!  :-)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on February 21, 2009, 10:38:13 PM
thanks, OK, for the info on Steffani Snikkers.  Much appreciated.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on February 22, 2009, 09:21:06 AM
yes what a good game yesterday  maybe they will meet in the miaa tourment finals at the devoss that would be a aonother good game
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 23, 2009, 12:31:16 AM
This is WAY premature (but doesn't hurt to plan) - IF IWU makes it to the Final Four, I plan to be there. :)  For the IWU @ Hope football game, I brought my RV, but that somehow doesn't now seem an option!  Suggestions on accommodations, etc.?

My dream match up would be IWU vs. Hope for the title.  You'd have home court, but we'd have Christina Solari (national POY?) - I like those odds! ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 23, 2009, 11:45:12 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 23, 2009, 12:31:16 AM
This is WAY premature (but doesn't hurt to plan) - IF IWU makes it to the Final Four, I plan to be there. :)  For the IWU @ Hope football game, I brought my RV, but that somehow doesn't now seem an option!  Suggestions on accommodations, etc.?

My dream match up would be IWU vs. Hope for the title.  You'd have home court, but we'd have Christina Solari (national POY?) - I like those odds! ;)

I like those odds too - the odds of Hope shutting down the national POY.  Coach Mo has a history of being pretty darn good at it
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 23, 2009, 01:01:11 PM
Yesterday I prepared a long, insightful commentary from a Hope fan's perspective and then lost my internet connection during the posting process.

At this point, I will not try to top oldknight's in depth analysis of the game.  However, I will summarize what I believe are some of the positive and negative take away's for Hope.

Positives:

Jenny Cowen,

A W in the win column,

Decent play from the three primary post players,

Ability to maintain composure against an intense press,

Ability to maintain composure when down late in the game on the opponents floor- very different from St. Mary's game,

Good defense in the critical final 3 minutes,

Heather Kreuse's strong defense and calm inbounding late in the first half when Knox and Snikkers were on the bench with two fouls.

Negatives:

Failure to capitalize against the double teaming press for much of the second half,

Too many missed easy shots,

Weak rebounding,

Poor defensive rotation at times that opened up wide open corner shots, back door layups and mismatch's for Harris.  (This is a correctable problem.)

Limited scoring from the perimeter players other than Cowen.

Coach Ross put together an excellant game plan and his team played to the best of its ability, but in the end it wasn't enough.  I agree that this was a test that will be beneficial to the Dutch, but I am not complacent about the tourney.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 23, 2009, 01:17:01 PM
This is a test to see if there are any posters other than Hope and Calvin backers.

I believe this year's conference tourney could be the best of recent years.  While, Hope, Calvin and St. Mary's should advance through the first round with little difficulty all other games through the championship should be credible competitions.

Would it be possible to hear from followers of St. Mary's, Albion and Trine.  What are your keys to victory and what has to go your way to make it to Saturday?

Question for St. Mary's:  Is Beier healthy and ready to go for the tournament?  I see from the box score that she was in the starting lineup against K, but played only two minutes.   Hopefully it was not just an opportunity for her to get on the floor the final home game of her senior year since she is such a tough competitor.  Am I correct in assuming Mahoney is ready to go?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on February 23, 2009, 04:03:31 PM
yes i can not go tuesday  night maybe thuresday after my daughter gets done with dutch dance then saturday for shure i will be there
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 23, 2009, 08:41:39 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 23, 2009, 12:31:16 AM
This is WAY premature (but doesn't hurt to plan) - IF IWU makes it to the Final Four, I plan to be there. :)  For the IWU @ Hope football game, I brought my RV, but that somehow doesn't now seem an option!  Suggestions on accommodations, etc.?

My dream match up would be IWU vs. Hope for the title.  You'd have home court, but we'd have Christina Solari (national POY?) - I like those odds! ;)

Mr. Ypsi there are several national chain hotels within just a couple of miles of campus.  Since you have been to Holland you know there are several great resturants and good shopping downtown.

I would love to engage in NCAA tournament scenario analysis - however, Hope has the conference tourney to get through this week and nothing can be taken for granted - at least Calvin does not seem to have received notice that this week is merely a formality.

However, if you are looking ahead to a match up for Solari, check out the stats for Hopes starting bigs then look at the number of minutes they have averaged.  Both are capable of playing thirty minutes if necessary.  But there is a lot of basketball still to be played.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 23, 2009, 09:23:06 PM
Quote from: WWWRHH on February 23, 2009, 08:41:39 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 23, 2009, 12:31:16 AM
This is WAY premature (but doesn't hurt to plan) - IF IWU makes it to the Final Four, I plan to be there. :)  For the IWU @ Hope football game, I brought my RV, but that somehow doesn't now seem an option!  Suggestions on accommodations, etc.?

My dream match up would be IWU vs. Hope for the title.  You'd have home court, but we'd have Christina Solari (national POY?) - I like those odds! ;)

Mr. Ypsi there are several national chain hotels within just a couple of miles of campus.  Since you have been to Holland you know there are several great resturants and good shopping downtown.

I would love to engage in NCAA tournament scenario analysis - however, Hope has the conference tourney to get through this week and nothing can be taken for granted - at least Calvin does not seem to have received notice that the next week is merely a formality.

However, if you are looking ahead to a match up for Soari, check out the stats for Hopes starting bigs then look at the number of minutes they have averaged.  Both are capable of playing thirty minutes if necessary.  But there is a lot of basketball still to be played.

Thanks for the response.  Fortunately both Hope and IWU are in the envious position of the conference tourneys being only to protect seeding - both are absolute locks for a C if they fall.  Based on last year, do you have any sense of whether I should book now (with cancellation possible - wouldn't want to 'count my chickens ...'), or could I afford to wait 'til the Titans actually make it?

BTW, just saw today that the next two Final Fours will be in Bloomington - dare we 'hope' for a home-and-home series? ;)  [I would be reasonably certain that THAT would be a first for national title games in any sport at any level! :D]
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 24, 2009, 01:10:17 PM
Mr. Ypsi:

I think you have some time before you make reservations.  Holland does not sit alone isolated on the wind swept prairie like the Bloomington - Normal metropolis.  It is really part of the greater Grand Rapids area(downtown GR is much closer to Hope than Peoria is to IWU) and there are several lake towns north and south of the city that are slow in the winter.

Even if you waited until the week prior to the finals, I think you could find a hotel less than thirty minutes from campus without great difficulty.  However, some of the locals may be able to provide more detailed information.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hoosier Titan on February 24, 2009, 02:26:16 PM
Quote from: WWWRHH on February 24, 2009, 01:10:17 PM
....Holland does not sit alone isolated on the wind swept prairie like the Bloomington - Normal metropolis....

I really wanted to argue with this description, but it is just too accurate! :D The only bad thing about living in B-N--we have had weather worse than Mt. Washington, NH, this year, site of the highest wind ever recorded on Earth, without the great scenery and hiking.

http://mountwashington.org/ (http://mountwashington.org/)

Thanks for the info, WWW.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 24, 2009, 09:17:24 PM
#1 Hope 74, #8 Olivet 57
#2 Saint Mary's 74, #7 Adrian 60
#3 Calvin 69, #6 Alma 41
#5 Albion 58, #4 Trine 48


Semi's are set

#5 Albion at #1 Hope

#3 Calvin at #2 Saint Mary's

Its the third year in a row the same four teams have made the semi-finals.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 24, 2009, 10:23:37 PM
After losing twice in overtime to Alma during the regular season, Calvin seems to have taken no chances tonight (and apparently no prisoners) in a 69-41 romp at VanNoord.  I noticed a curious thing from tonight's box. Cassie Kopke, who began the season on Calvin's roster, ended it on Alma's. During the same season, she played 3 games for the Lady Knights and 15 for the Scots. I don't know that I've ever seen that before. :o
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 24, 2009, 11:03:23 PM
There was a Hope JV player for the men many years ago who transferred to Alma at the winter break and played regularly for their varsity the rest of the season........Osborn was his last name.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on February 25, 2009, 06:36:25 AM
i am loojing for a good game thuresday   night  hope vs albion
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 25, 2009, 03:55:27 PM
Really nice articel in the Detroit News about Coach Mo

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090224/SPORTS0203/902240362/1133/SPORTS
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on February 26, 2009, 10:14:51 PM
i did  not expect a blow out tonight over albion hope keeps playing better and better  i did not expext st marys to beat calvin to
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 26, 2009, 10:22:07 PM
#2 Saint Mary's 67, #3 Calvin 58
#1 Hope 79, #5 Albion 52

Saturday afternoon at DeVos Fieldhouse

#2 St. Mary's vs #1 Hope


Congrats to St.Mary's for making their first ever MIAA Tournament final appearance, Hope will be playing in their 4th in a row and 10th overall.  They'll be looking for MIAA Tournament Championship #9.


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on February 27, 2009, 08:04:40 AM
it schould be a good 1 saturday afternoon at  3.00  they need fans come out and support the hope girls
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 27, 2009, 09:30:06 AM
I think it would be fair to say that Coach Mo inspired (those that were there saw a lot of "inspiration" occurring on the sideline :)) the team to play with greater intensity than they did in a rather pedestrian performance against Olivet.  He was particulary insistent that everyone play aggressive ball denying defense on every play.  The offense was much crisper and turnovers (at least by the primary rotation) were held to a minimum.  It may have been the best offensive effort of the season - the inside game set up the outside game and vice versa.  I think we also got an indication of the player rotation strategy that Morehouse plans to use going forward - but I will let the oppostion do their own scouting report.

I expected and wished for a Hope - Calvin rematch tomorrow.  I assume that St. Mary's played a great game to hold off Harris and company.  Mahoney's return to the lineup has made a big difference for the Belles and the Dutch should expect to face a tough, fired up opponent.  Saturday's game is huge for the Belles - if they win they get the AQ and the potential for deep run in the tourney, but a loose would mean they have no chance of getting a post-season nod.

Looking ahead to the game I, of course, expect a Hope victory.  I also expect a hard fought game, but Hope just has greater depth and fresher legs.  Last night, only one Hope player played more than 19 mins., while four Belles played 30 or more and a fifth played 26.  If Hope plays with the intensity and effort of last night it will be hard for St. Mary's to stay with them for forty minutes.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 27, 2009, 10:04:28 AM
Quote from: WWWRHH on February 27, 2009, 09:30:06 AM
I think it would be fair to say that Coach Mo inspired (those that were there saw a lot of "inspiration" occurring on the sideline :)) the team to play with greater intensity than they did in a rather pedestrian performance against Olivet.  He was particulary insistent that everyone play aggressive ball denying defense on every play. 

I absolutely agree.  I also think that the defensive intensity of Hope will be the deciding factor on Saturday.  The Dutch offense has shown it to be very capable of scoring against the Belles (84 points in each of the regular season match-ups).  The defense has given up 91 and 59 in those two games (granted the Belles were missing key players due to injuries during their 59 point performance).   I predict an intense Hope D that leads to a victory.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on February 27, 2009, 10:28:33 PM
hope fans come out to support the dutch still have time to catch 2 games
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 27, 2009, 11:01:37 PM
Quote from: hope1 on February 27, 2009, 10:28:33 PM
hope fans come out to support the dutch still have time to catch 2 games

Hopefully sturdent attendance will pick up now that the games really mean something!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 28, 2009, 03:48:54 PM
Hope's women are cruising past St. Mary's 39-22 at half. Sounds like Snikkers is dominating her counterpart and the Belles' leading scorer, Erin Newsome, outscoring her 14-4, and outboarding her 5-2.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on February 28, 2009, 04:16:46 PM
Looks likely that the women will play again Holland... hopefully 6 more times!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 28, 2009, 04:59:45 PM
Hope 77 St. Mary's 47

quite a decade Hope wrapped up today in MIAA success.

MIAA Championships
2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2005 (co), 2006, 2008, 2009

MIAA Tournament Championships
2001, 2002, 2003, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009


Quote from: NW Hope Fan on February 28, 2009, 04:16:46 PM
Looks likely that the women will play again Holland... hopefully 6 more times!

Is it here that I remind people Hope hasn't hosted a women's tournament game in the DeVos era.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on February 28, 2009, 05:49:48 PM
Quote from: sac on February 28, 2009, 04:59:45 PM


Is it here that I remind people Hope hasn't hosted a women's tournament game in the DeVos era.

With that said, regardless of what the men do, I hope that the faithful, and then some (oldknight) pack the house!

Go Hope!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: cmlundy on February 28, 2009, 10:55:31 PM
This all comes down to now what the ncaa will do.  This is an odd year which means the girls should be home so time will tell....
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 28, 2009, 11:42:09 PM
the Flying Dutch have played very good basketball the last two games.  I think the close call last Saturday and some "encouragement" from the coaches fired them up big time. 

It is hard to believe the Belles team we saw today beat the Calvin team we saw last week. 

Quote from: oldknight on February 28, 2009, 03:48:54 PM
Hope's women are cruising past St. Mary's 39-22 at half. Sounds like Snikkers is dominating her counterpart and the Belles' leading scorer, Erin Newsome, outscoring her 14-4, and outboarding her 5-2.

Not to quibble....but the matchups were not that direct.  Those that don't watch this team often may not realize how difficult it is to score against Hope's primary rotation when the team is executing their defense the way they have this week.

Carrie had a great game - however, the Hope team had a great game.  As I have said before, I am not going to do a scouting report for future opponents, but if anyone thinks the key to beating this team is a singular focus on shutting down Snikkers they will be very disappointed with the outcome.  There are at least eight other players waiting to take advantage of that strategy and Carrie has proven that she is as happy beating you with 2 points as she is with thirty.

Carrie dominated defensively near the basket, but Knox drew the defensive assignment on Newsome and Bruinsma took it over when she was in the game.  Nothing new here, it appears to the extent possible Snikkers plays the paint and Knox plays the perimeter.  If Snikkers is out and Knox in, Knox takes the assignment most likely to keep her inside.  This allows the team to front aggresively and deny the ball to a primary scoring threat and if an opponent does penetrate the inside a big presence is there to provide help side defense.  In the end, the Belles posts, Newsome and Kammrath, finished with respectable stats, but my impression is that those numbers were accumulated primarily against the third unit.

The final stats are misleading. Hope's starting posts totally dominated the inside as they have most games.  Snikkers (20/10) and Knox (10/12)accumulated 30 points and 22 rebounds in 40 combined minutes.   Eight of Knox's rebounds were offensive and she went to the line 6 times on shooting fouls.  Cowen scored 12 in only 11 minutes, and Greene scored 10, had 2 steals and 3 blocks in 22 mins.  Kopke just made sure everything ran smoothly.  The Hope starters played 96 mins. , by contrast top ranked IWU played their starters 143 mins in CCIW title game.

Which brings me to my final point this evening.  Hope has few category leaders in the MIAA, although there are several Dutch players among the leaders in most categories.  But those stats are misleading because the Dutch starters barely average more than 20 mins a game and are ofter being compared to players that have played  far more minutes.  For instance, Hope has 4 players in the top 20 scorers, but no players in the top 20 minutes played.

I am a homer, but after watching Hope head to head against all the MIAA teams I think they have the best scorer (Snikkers), rebounder (Knox) defender (Greene) three point shooter (Cowen) "assister" (Kopke).  I hope that those selecting the all conference honorees take that into consideration.

Quote from: cmlundy on February 28, 2009, 10:55:31 PM
This all comes down to now what the ncaa will do.  This is an odd year which means the girls should be home so time will tell....

With the #1 regional ranking and a strong conference tourney, I would be very surprised if Hope does not have home court advantage.  It will be interesting to see how so many top ranked mid-west team will be split up.  No matter who they face, I am sure a big crowd would encourage the team.  I really hope more students fill the stands next week.


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on March 01, 2009, 01:54:37 PM
I would be shocked if Hope isn't hosting the first weekend. My concern is that due to geography Hope could end up playing at IWU the second weekend and you would have a potential 1 v. 2 match up before you get to the Final Four.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 01, 2009, 02:31:40 PM
Quote from: ChicagoHopeNut (recently relocated from DC) on March 01, 2009, 01:54:37 PM
I would be shocked if Hope isn't hosting the first weekend. My concern is that due to geography Hope could end up playing at IWU the second weekend and you would have a potential 1 v. 2 match up before you get to the Final Four.

Yeah, I'm afraid that might happen.  (Though, since if they do separate them, IWU would have to play AT Hope, I suppose Hope having to come to the Shirk would only be fair! :D)

My dream match-up remains an IWU/Hope title game, but geography may trump that possibility.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 02, 2009, 12:08:41 AM
http://www.d3hoops.com/women-final-four/09/projected.htm

The d3hoops projection.

Hope hosting a 4 team pod of Washington and Jefferson, Capital and playing Brockport State.  I like the hosting part, the pairing doesn't make much sense to me, but we'll see.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: goodknight on March 02, 2009, 09:04:11 AM
Although the on-court result was less than Calvin might have wished for this past weekend, word comes that Coach John Ross has brought into the fold his top recruit for next year to do battle with Ms. Snikkers rather than caddy for her for the next couple of years.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: fannie on March 02, 2009, 11:17:17 AM
FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!  A chance to host a first round at HOPE!!!!!  :-)  WOO-HOO!!!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on March 02, 2009, 11:28:01 AM
Very happy to see that Hope and IWU are on opposite sides of the bracket. That said the pod at Hope on the first weekend looks tough (also glad it does not include DePauw, I was afraid of a tough match up there).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2009, 11:44:23 AM
Quote from: ChicagoHopeNut (recently relocated from DC) on March 02, 2009, 11:28:01 AM
Very happy to see that Hope and IWU are on opposite sides of the bracket. That said the pod at Hope on the first weekend looks tough (also glad it does not include DePauw, I was afraid of a tough match up there).

DePauw plays at IWU in game 2 (IF they beat UWEC, and we don't lay an egg against OWU).

If all goes well, my dream match for the title IS possible! :)  (Though the Titans may have to beat all three WIAC teams, or rematches against DePauw and Wash U.)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: cmlundy on March 02, 2009, 11:52:53 AM
Looking at the rosters it appears that Hope has a definite height advantage.  WJC has one player above 6-0. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 02, 2009, 11:54:35 AM
I know I'm getting ahead of myself...

What are the chances of George Fox hosting if they win their first?  I'm particularly interested because I'm hoping Hope also will still be in it by then.  GF is undefeated and Hope has that one pesky loss, but that's not enough information to base that decision.  

I suppose GF hosting would probably be a longshot, but NWHopeFan would surely enjoy the chance to see the Flying Dutch right in his backyard.

Any insight would be helpful and appreciated.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on March 02, 2009, 12:11:49 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on March 02, 2009, 11:54:35 AM
I know I'm getting ahead of myself...

What are the chances of George Fox hosting if they win their first?  I'm particularly interested because I'm hoping Hope also will still be in it by then.  GF is undefeated and Hope has that one pesky loss, but that's not enough information to base that decision.  

I suppose GF hosting would probably be a longshot, but NWHopeFan would surely enjoy the chance to see the Flying Dutch right in his backyard.

Any insight would be helpful and appreciated.

Even though George Fox may deserve to host, their D3 geographic isolation makes it unlikely.  It would mean the NCAA would likely have to spring for three second round plane trips it probably own't happen.

They are a tough team and when you look at what their coach has done with one senior and 10 freshman they can never be under estimated.  I think Hope and the other top D3 programs should get used to Fox becoming a periennial challenger.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on March 02, 2009, 12:54:13 PM
Quote from: ChicagoHopeNut (recently relocated from DC) on March 02, 2009, 11:28:01 AM
Very happy to see that Hope and IWU are on opposite sides of the bracket. That said the pod at Hope on the first weekend looks tough (also glad it does not include DePauw, I was afraid of a tough match up there).

This is all I could have asked for.  The toughest games for the Hope women will be their 3rd and 4th, especially if they have to go on the road.  Hope would've beaten MHB at Hope last year.  Hope fans already attend basketball unlike other schools in the country.  The home court advantage for the final four will be overwhelming.  I'm sure most other teams are used to a couple hundred fans at their games, even important ones.  They will be greeted by a 3000+ sea of orange, raucous and ready to add a second banner to the rafters.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 02, 2009, 12:57:21 PM
That bracket suggests at least 2 flights into the sweet 16 with a real possibility of 3 going somewhere if the right comibination of teams won.   If I had a guess, the Sweet 16 looks like somewhere in the South.


.......and once again the women dust the men in bracketology.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 02, 2009, 12:59:47 PM
yes i think the 3rd round at george fox if hope gets by his round snikers is named  mvp of the league
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on March 02, 2009, 01:08:12 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on March 02, 2009, 12:54:13 PM
Quote from: ChicagoHopeNut (recently relocated from DC) on March 02, 2009, 11:28:01 AM
Very happy to see that Hope and IWU are on opposite sides of the bracket. That said the pod at Hope on the first weekend looks tough (also glad it does not include DePauw, I was afraid of a tough match up there).

This is all I could have asked for.  The toughest games for the Hope women will be their 3rd and 4th, especially if they have to go on the road.  Hope would've beaten MHB at Hope last year.  Hope fans already attend basketball unlike other schools in the country.  The home court advantage for the final four will be overwhelming.  I'm sure most other teams are used to a couple hundred fans at their games, even important ones.  They will be greeted by a 3000+ sea of orange, raucous and ready to add a second banner to the rafters.

Third.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 02, 2009, 01:16:46 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on March 02, 2009, 11:54:35 AM
I know I'm getting ahead of myself...

What are the chances of George Fox hosting if they win their first?  I'm particularly interested because I'm hoping Hope also will still be in it by then.  GF is undefeated and Hope has that one pesky loss, but that's not enough information to base that decision. 

I suppose GF hosting would probably be a longshot, but NWHopeFan would surely enjoy the chance to see the Flying Dutch right in his backyard.

Any insight would be helpful and appreciated.

I wouldn't complain... at 1 hour away and in the middle of Oregon wine country it could be a fun weekend. I'd be glad to be a weekend host!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 02, 2009, 01:46:58 PM
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on March 02, 2009, 01:16:46 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on March 02, 2009, 11:54:35 AM
I know I'm getting ahead of myself...

What are the chances of George Fox hosting if they win their first?  I'm particularly interested because I'm hoping Hope also will still be in it by then.  GF is undefeated and Hope has that one pesky loss, but that's not enough information to base that decision. 

I suppose GF hosting would probably be a longshot, but NWHopeFan would surely enjoy the chance to see the Flying Dutch right in his backyard.

Any insight would be helpful and appreciated.

I wouldn't complain... at 1 hour away and in the middle of Oregon wine country it could be a fun weekend. I'd be glad to be a weekend host!

Let's see...  Oh, good!  Vera and I have no obligations that Sunday morning.  I'll put Priceline in my favorites, just in case.   ;D  ;D  ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 02, 2009, 03:53:14 PM
the  hope home game thie week washingiton  jefferson they look really good with a record of 24-4
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on March 02, 2009, 05:51:08 PM
I have developed a preliminary "scouting report" based upon a quick look at the Washington & Jefferson Presidents season stats and roster. 

It appears that in some ways the Presidents resemble the Dutch, in that their leading scorer (#15 Hays 6-0) @ 15.9 ppg is a post player.  Hays is also a solid rebounder @ 6.2 per game.

Like Hope, scoring is fairly well distributed among the other starters (10.1, 10.0, 9.0, 6.7).

The other post player (#33 Gibson 6-1) is also a solid contributor with 10.0 points and 10.6 rebounds per game.

Hays and Gibson combined average 25.9 points and 16.8 rebounds a game vs. 22.8 points and 15.8 rebounds for the Snikkers / Knox Hope post combination of 22.8 points and  15.8 rebounds.

However, the Presidents post players average 27.6 minutes a contest, vs. the Hope tandem of 20.3 minutes.

Hope's posts players are solid defenders that have typically held counterparts scoring and rebounding stats to well below their overall averages.  Hope's post players are also a little bigger than Hays and Gibson.

W&J has some firepower and is a solid defensive team, but somewhat less potent in both categories than Hope.

Hope seems to have a clear depth advantage

Starters               Hope             W&J

Minutes played                     53%                       67%
                                         (21.2)                    (26.79)

Scoring                                  60%                      74% 
                                           
Rebounds                             55%                       64%


Team

Points Per Game                    77.9                      70.1

Opponents ppg                     55.2                       54.3

Rebound Margin                      8.3                         6.4

Based on the stats it does not appear that W&J has the third strong rebounder like Greene nor anyone as aggressive as Greene on defense.  Nor do the stats point to a post off the bench that can play significant minutes like Bruinsma while maintaining production similar to the starters.

Also missing off the bench for the Presidents lineup is a scorer like DeKuiper or a defensive stopper / decent scorer such as Geers.

The point guards have comparable stats per minute played.  W&J's point, #24 Killeen 5-5, appears very solid and may have a slight edge in some categories.

(Speculative) Keys to the Game:  Snikkers and Knox avoiding early fouls, defensive pressure on the Presidents posts, and fresh Dutch legs maintaining consistent defensive pressure.   If Cowen and / or Greene have a hot hand that would be an added bonus.

I will note that their are no common opponents, and W&J seems to play in a stronger conference than Hope given that two PAC teams qualified for the playoffs.  They appear very solid and are a very credible opponent.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 02, 2009, 07:42:27 PM
Been awhile but in 2003 the Dutch beat Wash & Jeff in the NCAA's 71-60, that WJ team was 22-2.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 02, 2009, 09:15:56 PM
tickets  go sale wed  at devoss  i think  10.00
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on March 02, 2009, 10:53:28 PM
Hope players received almost as much post season MIAA recognition as possible:

http://www.miaa.org/wbb/

Carrie Snikkers - MVP

All MIAA First Team:  Carrie Snikkers, Jenny Cowen

All MIAA Second Team:  Philly Greene,  Courtney Knox

Considering that no more than two players per school can be named to each all MIAA team, and no more than four total between first and second all conference this is about the best that the Dutch could do.  However, I really feel that Kopke is as deserving of recognition as the other starters.

(Although Nicole Beier from St. Mary's lost the last few weeks of her senior year to injury, I think the second team all conference recognition she received was well deserved.)

In addition to the all conference recognition, Courtney Knox was also named player of the week for the first time in her career.


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 03, 2009, 01:39:28 PM
Nicole Beier of St. Mary's missed 6 games plus the conference tournament and still earned second team all-miaa.  Thats pretty impressive really..........and she only started 2 conference games.


You never know what a difference one player can make but it should be noted.......Nicole in the lineup, St. Mary's beat Hope.  Nicole out of the lineup, Hope beat St. Mary's twice rather easily.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on March 03, 2009, 02:42:46 PM
Quote from: sac on March 03, 2009, 01:39:28 PM
Nicole Beier of St. Mary's missed 6 games plus the conference tournament and still earned second team all-miaa.  Thats pretty impressive really..........and she only started 2 conference games.


You never know what a difference one player can make but it should be noted.......Nicole in the lineup, St. Mary's beat Hope.  Nicole out of the lineup, Hope beat St. Mary's twice rather easily.

I shouldn't take the bait, but I will. ;)

There were a lot of reasons Hope lost the game at St. Mary's and Beier's career game against the Dutch's zone (I can't recall a subsequent reappearance of the zone) was one of them.  I obviously think that Beier is a very good player and left alone she hits from the outside better than any big player in the league except Snikkers.  I have no idea why she did not start - the coach must think she brings an added dimension off the bench.  I also was hopeful that she would not have to finish her career sidelined by injury.

However, I do not think her presence would have made much difference last Saturday as the Hope women played their best defense of the year last Thursday and Saturday.

Remember the lineup the Belles fielded Saturday was the same group that handled Calvin with only moderate difficulty two nights before when the Knights seemed to be gaining momentum.

The Dutch played great defense in the championship game and, as they say, the game was not as close as the score would indicate.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 03, 2009, 05:51:49 PM
Quote from: sac on March 03, 2009, 01:39:28 PM
Nicole Beier of St. Mary's missed 6 games plus the conference tournament and still earned second team all-miaa.  Thats pretty impressive really..........and she only started 2 conference games.


What's is even more impressive is the fact that Marcia Harris was named First Team All-MIAA. Marcia played in only 6 of 16 regular season games (2 in December and 4 in February), but in the games she appeared Harris averaged 20 points per game despite averaging less than 21 minutes played in each game she appeared. The voters obviously regarded Marcia's contributions (and her return when she could easily have called it a career) as worthy of recognition.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on March 04, 2009, 06:59:19 AM
Carissa Verkaik coming to Calvin:

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/sports/x1362395605/PREP-ROUNDUP-Maroons-top-player-chooses-Calvin-College
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: fannie on March 04, 2009, 09:13:32 AM
Any idea why women's tickets are more costly than the men's tickets for the upcoming first round of NCAA tourney?  At Hope - 8 dollars, at Wheaton 6 dollars........
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 04, 2009, 09:53:45 AM
i think  why because the devoss is bigger then wheaton  gym lots of tickets left i got my  5
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 04, 2009, 12:38:57 PM
Quote from: fannie on March 04, 2009, 09:13:32 AM
Any idea why women's tickets are more costly than the men's tickets for the upcoming first round of NCAA tourney?  At Hope - 8 dollars, at Wheaton 6 dollars........

The host school can set prices as it likes -- the NCAA only sets a minimum, as far as I can tell.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 04, 2009, 02:24:01 PM
Quote from: oldknight on March 03, 2009, 05:51:49 PM
Quote from: sac on March 03, 2009, 01:39:28 PM
Nicole Beier of St. Mary's missed 6 games plus the conference tournament and still earned second team all-miaa.  Thats pretty impressive really..........and she only started 2 conference games.


What's is even more impressive is the fact that Marcia Harris was named First Team All-MIAA. Marcia played in only 6 of 16 regular season games (2 in December and 4 in February), but in the games she appeared Harris averaged 20 points per game despite averaging less than 21 minutes played in each game she appeared. The voters obviously regarded Marcia's contributions (and her return when she could easily have called it a career) as worthy of recognition.

Missed that one OK, thats very impressive as well.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on March 05, 2009, 10:51:19 AM
Washington and Jefferson's conference (Presidents Athletic Conference PrAC) does not seem to be represented on the women's side so it is not possible to monitor their chatter and gain any insight into what we might see tomorrow night.

I did find the attached newspaper article and toward the end it does discuss the Presidents style of play.  As I gathered from the stats, they have some similarities with the Dutch.  However, it also sounds as if their post may play a different type of game than the Dutch's starting duo.

http://www.observer-reporter.com/OR/Story/03-03-W-amp-J-gets-Hope-in-DIII-tourney

We could see some intesting matchups.

W&J's highest ranked opponent Thomas More (TM won 2 of 3) has some height on the roster, but More's primary rotation included only one 6 footer.  Carrie could pose a real challenge for a shorter team not used to a highly skilled big player that can hurt you inside and outside.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 05, 2009, 05:00:32 PM
Here's a quick team stat comparison fo Hope and Washigton & Jefferson



Offense     % 2pt   % 3pt      % FT
Hope     44.6   34.7      69.6
W&J     46.5   36.7      72
            
Defense     % 2pt   % 3pt     
Hope     33   29.8     
W&J     40.4   31.6     
            
Rebounding     Team   Opp      Margin
Hope     45.6   37.3      8.3
W&J     37.9   31.5      6.4
            
Scoring     Team   Opp      Margin
Hope     77.9   54.3      23.6
W&J     70.1   55.2      14.9
            
3 point shooting     Attempts   Made      Made/game
Hope     404   140      5.4
W&J     382   140      5
            
Blocks     Total   per game     
Hope     149   5.7     
W&J     70   2.5     
            
Steals     Total   per game     
Hope     372   14.3     
W&J     237   8.5     
            
Turnovers     Total    per game     
Hope     453   17.4     
W&J     386   13.8     
            
Assists     Total   per game     
Hope     409   15.7     
W&J     402   14.4     
            
Assist/Turnover             
Hope     0.9        
W&J     1        
            
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on March 05, 2009, 05:27:14 PM
Flyinjg Dutch Fan:  thanks for the additional stat breakdown.

If I may, let me add a couple of points and an attempt to provide some analysis and color to the stats.

Hope's turnovers and assist to turnover ratio always make me cringe a little when I look at the numbers in isolation.

However, the high octain offense which takes chances getting the ball up the court is part of the reason for the turnovers.  But coupled with the fast break first mentality, is an aggressive defense.  While Hope has 17.4 turnover per game, opponents have an eyepopping 24.2.  I can live with that ratio.

(The amount of time that the third rotation spends on the floor is a prime contributor to the high turnovers. Of course that distirbuted playing time is the reason that the team has done so well after graduating four starting seniors and will be back again next year when two key starters depart.)

Another stat I find intesting is that while the Dutch's total rebounding margin is 8.3 per game, the offensive rebounding margin is 5.5 which I believe contributes to a pretty healthy second chance point differential.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 05, 2009, 05:31:02 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 05, 2009, 05:00:32 PM
Here's a quick team stat comparison fo Hope and Washigton & Jefferson



Offense     % 2pt   % 3pt      % FT
Hope     44.6   34.7      69.6
W&J     46.5   36.7      72
            
Defense     % 2pt   % 3pt     
Hope     33   29.8     
W&J     40.4   31.6     
            
Rebounding     Team   Opp      Margin
Hope     45.6   37.3      8.3
W&J     37.9   31.5      6.4
            
Scoring     Team   Opp      Margin
Hope     77.9   54.3      23.6
W&J     70.1   55.2      14.9
            
3 point shooting     Attempts   Made      Made/game
Hope     404   140      5.4
W&J     382   140      5
            
Blocks     Total   per game     
Hope     149   5.7     
W&J     70   2.5     
            
Steals     Total   per game     
Hope     372   14.3     
W&J     237   8.5     
            
Turnovers     Total    per game     
Hope     453   17.4     
W&J     386   13.8     
            
Assists     Total   per game     
Hope     409   15.7     
W&J     402   14.4     
            
Assist/Turnover             
Hope     0.9        
W&J     1        
            

A couple of things stand out for me. Hope's defensive shooting per centage (for 2-point attempts) is significantly better than W & J's. I doubt if W & J sees the kind of defensive pressure that Hope typically shows and I think the Presidents will find scoring in the paint to be far more difficult than they normally experience. Knox and Snikkers are an imposing tandem and if you've never played against them, their ability to clog up the lane can be intimidating. Snikkers in particular is a good shot blocker and I wouldn't be surprised if she had 5 or 6 blocks by halftime. I think Calvin's experience at DeVos in their first game this year (when they got blown out) enabled them to better deal with Hope's pressure the second time around and that made for a much better game.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: fannie on March 05, 2009, 06:24:45 PM
Thanks for taking the time to get some info up about the Presidents....I had done some searching and had found very little.  I did  a video Google on Presidents womens basketball and found a couple of short snippets that were interesting but not real informative!  :-)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 05, 2009, 06:24:54 PM
i think it will be a good game friday  night i just hope they fill it up that would help more
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flea on March 05, 2009, 11:07:45 PM
Quote from: almcguirejr on March 04, 2009, 06:59:19 AM
Carissa Verkaik coming to Calvin:

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/sports/x1362395605/PREP-ROUNDUP-Maroons-top-player-chooses-Calvin-College

That'll keep Ross happy during tennis season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 06, 2009, 09:37:38 PM
good job hope girls keep it rolling carrie with  27  points hope is going to be a tough team to beat they are looking better and better
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on March 06, 2009, 11:23:50 PM
Good win tonight for the Dutch.

As some of us suspected, the Presidents were just physically over matched by the Hope post players.  Snkkers and Knox combined for more than half the Dutch's rebounds and points.  Snikkers had 27 points and Knox 17.  They combined for 21 rebounds.  Carrie's inside / outside game was in full force.  She was 4-5 from 3 point range.  Most of her twos came from a post up near the basket followed by her patented soft baby hook.

Knox grabbed 6 offensive rebounds and it seemed was able to convert all into points.  4-4 from the field and 9-11 from the FT line.

The rest of the scoring was dispersed among the team with some nice three pointers by DeKuiper and Geers.

W&J is a very good team.  The Presidents never gave up and although down by 22 at the half they came out strong in the second half and shot very well to narrow the lead to 11.  Before Hope closed out the game with a strong run. 

Hope shot very well from beyond the arc in the first half.  It looked to me as if W&J extened their defensive pressure on the Hope's perimeter players in the second half and basically played a physical "man" defense on Hope's post, but double teamed when the ball came inside.  They were able to play even with Hopes guards, but just could not stope Hope's inside game.   It was a gutsy strategy and probably was their best chance for victory. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 07, 2009, 02:14:18 PM
Pat Coleman chose Oglethorpe over Hope in the Sectionals final, to get to the Final Four.  While this perplexed me somewhat when I first read it, last night's results have solidified my initial thought that Pat might be full of baloney with this prediction.

Hope out blocked (4-0), out rebounded (21-14), and out-scored #23 W&J in the paint (36-22) last night on their way to a relatively easy win on their home floor.  By contrast, OU eked out a 3-point win inside of the last minute, while 2 of their  starters played all 40 minutes against an unranked Maryville team, also on their home floor.

Hope has OU outsized (and deep into the bench), and with the numbers the Dutch put up last night (listed above), I just don't see OU coming out victorious in a week, regardless of where the NCAA decides to send them.

BTW, I'm not over-looking Baldwin-Wallace tonight.  But if you saw what I saw last night, you'd understand why I'm affording myself the luxury of looking ahead.  I understand that Hope--and for that matter OU--has 2 more games to win before this match-up is possible.  But these comments are based on the assumption that Pat was right that they will actually meet in the Elite Eight.  I'm sure Coach Mo and the Hope women will not look past the next game, any step of the way.

Sorry, Pat, but I just don't see eye-to-eye with you on this one.  OU just hasn't shown it yet.

GO HOPE!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 07, 2009, 02:21:28 PM
Links of interest:

http://www.washjeff.edu/Athletics/WBasketball/089stats/game29.htm

http://www.d3hoops.com/game-releases/v2.0/2009/Mar/06/Oglethorpe-vs.-Maryville+(Tenn.)/5bft578mkqt75ovk/29407
(no box score for OU's game)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 07, 2009, 05:36:41 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on March 07, 2009, 02:14:18 PM
Pat Coleman chose Oglethorpe over Hope in the Sectionals final, to get to the Final Four.  While this perplexed me somewhat when I first read it, last night's results have solidified my initial thought that Pat might be full of baloney with this prediction.

Hope out blocked (4-0), out rebounded (21-14), and out-scored #23 W&J in the paint (36-22) last night on their way to a relatively easy win on their home floor.  By contrast, OU eked out a 3-point win inside of the last minute, while 2 of their  starters played all 40 minutes against an unranked Maryville team, also on their home floor.

Hope has OU outsized (and deep into the bench), and with the numbers the Dutch put up last night (listed above), I just don't see OU coming out victorious in a week, regardless of where the NCAA decides to send them.

BTW, I'm not over-looking Baldwin-Wallace tonight.  But if you saw what I saw last night, you'd understand why I'm affording myself the luxury of looking ahead.  I understand that Hope--and for that matter OU--has 2 more games to win before this match-up is possible.  But these comments are based on the assumption that Pat was right that they will actually meet in the Elite Eight.  I'm sure Coach Mo and the Hope women will not look past the next game, any step of the way.

Sorry, Pat, but I just don't see eye-to-eye with you on this one.  OU just hasn't shown it yet.

GO HOPE!!

I would bet that prediction is based on two key factors. 

1. Oglethorpe was in the final four last year

2. Oglethorpe will likely be hosting the sectional

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: House on March 07, 2009, 07:30:58 PM
Is the WHTC Audio working for anyone?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 07, 2009, 10:01:57 PM
My wife and I took in the B-W/Hope game at DeVos and sac will be glad to know that we successfully exorcised the BaldWally ghost from the Hope campus, as the ladies won 69-53. The Flying Dutch took an early 14-1 lead and it had all the earmarks of an easy game. The Yellow Jackets began play very tentatively, especially on defense, and I was close enough to the B-W bench to hear their coach exclaim "We're letting them get easy shots everywhere." But the ghost of Christmas past refused to die easily and trouble began in the form of two early fouls on Snikkers.

The trouble was compounded by a curious coaching decision by Morehouse when, for extended minutes, he left only one starter (Knox) in the game while Cowen, Greene and Kopke were left to watch the lead dwindle. B-W has an excellent point guard (Quiring) who harrassed the daylights out of Hope's point, forcing the Flying Dutch to start their offense further from the basket. B-W closed with one at 18-17 and the game stayed close before Hope righted the ship, largely on the strength of some excellent inside/outside play of one of Al VandenBosch's finest, Erika Bruinsma, who I believe ended the half with 11 points.

After a halftime score of 35-28, Hope went back to basics in the second half and in a workmanlike way, slowly but surely pulled away until a 21 point lead was established. B-W never really threatened in the second half. I was surprised to see Hope got outrebounded 44-42, and like Hope's close win at Calvin a couple of weeks ago, it seemed like an awful lot of loose ball rebounds weren't recovered by the Flying Dutch. That would concern me if I coached these ladies. There's too much talent on Hope's squad to see that happen so often.

I'm sure Hope will be on the road next week, and if they want a return engagement for more March hoops at DeVos the Flying Dutch need to crank up the consistency. I would also be a bit concerned about the play from the point position, especially off the bench which doesn't seem to offer this team a lot of help. It strikes me as Hope's Achilles' heel.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 07, 2009, 10:11:15 PM
I've been thinking about the upcoming sectional that Hope will be in, and I'm predicting that Thomas More will be hosting.  Here's my reasoning (as I try to think like the NCAA - yikes)

If Thomas More hosts -  Both Hope (393) and Oglethorpe (454) are within the 500 mile driving distance, meaning a sinlge airplane ride (for the George Fox / Chapman winner).

If Hope hosts - only Thomas More is within driving distance - 2 teams have to fly

If Oglethorpe hosts - only Thomas More is within driving distance - 2 teams have to fly

If George Fox/Chapman host - 3 teams have to fly
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 07, 2009, 10:39:40 PM
i think thomas and more will  host putt they have a 1200  gym they might hve to clear it out  or  like  200 tickets a team
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 07, 2009, 10:42:20 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 07, 2009, 10:11:15 PM
I've been thinking about the upcoming sectional that Hope will be in, and I'm predicting that Thomas More will be hosting.  Here's my reasoning (as I try to think like the NCAA - yikes)

If Thomas More hosts -  Both Hope (393) and Oglethorpe (454) are within the 500 mile driving distance, meaning a sinlge airplane ride (for the George Fox / Chapman winner).

If Hope hosts - only Thomas More is within driving distance - 2 teams have to fly

If Oglethorpe hosts - only Thomas More is within driving distance - 2 teams have to fly

If George Fox/Chapman host - 3 teams have to fly
Quote from: sac on March 07, 2009, 05:36:41 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on March 07, 2009, 02:14:18 PM
Pat Coleman chose Oglethorpe over Hope in the Sectionals final, to get to the Final Four.  While this perplexed me somewhat when I first read it, last night's results have solidified my initial thought that Pat might be full of baloney with this prediction.

Hope out blocked (4-0), out rebounded (21-14), and out-scored #23 W&J in the paint (36-22) last night on their way to a relatively easy win on their home floor.  By contrast, OU eked out a 3-point win inside of the last minute, while 2 of their  starters played all 40 minutes against an unranked Maryville team, also on their home floor.

Hope has OU outsized (and deep into the bench), and with the numbers the Dutch put up last night (listed above), I just don't see OU coming out victorious in a week, regardless of where the NCAA decides to send them.

BTW, I'm not over-looking Baldwin-Wallace tonight.  But if you saw what I saw last night, you'd understand why I'm affording myself the luxury of looking ahead.  I understand that Hope--and for that matter OU--has 2 more games to win before this match-up is possible.  But these comments are based on the assumption that Pat was right that they will actually meet in the Elite Eight.  I'm sure Coach Mo and the Hope women will not look past the next game, any step of the way.

Sorry, Pat, but I just don't see eye-to-eye with you on this one.  OU just hasn't shown it yet.

GO HOPE!!

I would bet that prediction is based on two key factors. 

1. Oglethorpe was in the final four last year

2. Oglethorpe Thomas More will likely be hosting the sectional  ;)


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 07, 2009, 10:44:57 PM
#2 Hope vs #7 Thomas More
#5 Oglethorpe vs probably #3 George Fox
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 07, 2009, 11:16:33 PM
FDF, your posts are great . . . but I think you haven't factored in all the financial considerations in your prediction of Thomas More's hosting based on one less air trip.  Hope has averaged about 1000 more fans at home than has Thomas More in each team's last couple home games, and has almost triple the capacity.  At an average $7 per ticket, you're likely talking $14,000 added revenue for the two days.  Then add to that the revenue from the saved cost of the Hope bus trip that wouldn't be taken and I wager you'll have much more than the cost of an Oglethorpe plane ride (20 people x $500 = $10,000, and the NCAA can probably do it for less than that on its group discount).

Moreover, if seeding and history count for nothing, then wouldn't there be an essential unfairness to Michigan colleges because of their boxed-in-by-Canada geography?  If losing only one game over two seasons can't merit a chance to host a sectional tournament, when one is supporting the NCAA by hosting the Final Four for two years, then what more would a Michigan team have to do?

Being an optimist, I predict that Hope will host next weekend's sectional. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on March 08, 2009, 12:35:40 AM
The hardest 16 point victory that I can remember......but they are not supposed to be easy at this stage.  It looks like many ranked teams had closer games than they are accustomed to this eveing.  Dutch fans may be spoiled by frequent easy victories.

oldknight, as usual, your analysis of the game is very good.  I think I can shed some light on the coaching decisons in the first half.  First, Morehouse is going to use his rotation, to the greatest extent possible, if he can maintain any type of lead.  I think he believes he can use his superior depth to wear teams down.  His substitutions are much less dramatic this year than last when he basically substituted five at at time.  It generally works out, although it does produce some heart stopping moments. 

He has basically been using a three post rotation recently, so there is usually one starter (Knox or Snikkers) playing with four second unit players for extended minutes.

Coach Morehouse seems to hate having foul trouble influence coaching decisions and rotation in the second half.  Once a player gets two fouls they generally sit the rest of the first half.  This evening Snikkers and Cowen got there first two quickly.  (I thought the second one on Carrie was ticky tack at best.)  He did bring Carrie back for some scoring punch late in the half, but she seemed to have instructions to play conservative D.

You are right that the backup point is inexperienced.  However, the option is to either play Kopke even mins. than desired, move Greene to point or play one of his shooting guards at the 1 position.  I expect that the rotation will stay unchanged unless absolutely necessary.

Snikkers and Knox were not able to score like last night.  A big reason was the physical inside play of Baldwin Wallace which the refs permitted in the first half.  Knox had her usual strong offensive rebounding effort, could not get the put backs to fall and, unlike last night when she went to the line 5 times after an O rebound, she did not get a foul call.  It seemed that the refs made some adjustments at half time and a little less contact was permitted in the second half when Snikkers went to the line a few times.  Hope's posts still scored 38 points (Snikkers 15, Bruinsma 13, Knox 7, and Kutney 3.

The most troubling stat for me was BWs 44 -42 rebounding advantage.  Snikkers (9), Knox(12) & Greene (6) grabbed 27 and Geers and Kutney contributed 5 in limited time. The rest of the team needs to find a way to help grab some loose balls.

The good news is that even with a sub-par night in many respects, there were some real positives.  Tonight demostrated that the Dutch are not one dimensional. - they do not have to have 25 from Snikkers or a big night from Cowen to pull out a victory.  It was good to see Bruinsma (13 pts) and Greene (15 pts) end their mini scoring slumps.  The team also played some pretty good defense with 7 blocks and 12 steals.  The also had a 20 - 12 turnover advantage.

I am optimistic about the Thomas More game even though it will be on their home court.  (The lowest seeded team gets the game due to travel costs, but I guess it beats flying to Oregon.) 

I expect the Dutch to meet George Fox in the elite eight.  Although Olglethorpe is experieced and was in the final four last year, GFs coach has brought an almost totally inexperienced team this far and I would not under estimate his ability to pull off an upset.  With that said, I think Hope's experience, depth and size can bring them back to Holland in two weeks.



Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: BruinFan on March 08, 2009, 12:37:24 AM
Quote from: pointlem on March 07, 2009, 11:16:33 PM
Moreover, if seeding and history count for nothing, then wouldn't there be an essential unfairness to Michigan colleges because of their boxed-in-by-Canada geography?  If losing only one game over two seasons can't merit a chance to host a sectional tournament, when one is supporting the NCAA by hosting the Final Four for two years, then what more would a Michigan team have to do?

Being an optimist, I predict that Hope will host next weekend's sectional. 

Pointlem, you make some good points about the finances.

The geography unfairness issue exists for other areas as well. I think that outside of Holland and the Hope alumni and friends community, that the rest of the D3 world would see giving Hope the opportunity to host all the way to the championship as an even greater injustice.

Does anyone know what time the NCAA will announce who is hosting the sectionals?
Best wishes to all of the teams that have advanced to round 3 next weekend.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 08, 2009, 01:15:47 AM
Quote from: BruinFan on March 08, 2009, 12:37:24 AM
Quote from: pointlem on March 07, 2009, 11:16:33 PM
Moreover, if seeding and history count for nothing, then wouldn't there be an essential unfairness to Michigan colleges because of their boxed-in-by-Canada geography?  If losing only one game over two seasons can't merit a chance to host a sectional tournament, when one is supporting the NCAA by hosting the Final Four for two years, then what more would a Michigan team have to do?

Being an optimist, I predict that Hope will host next weekend's sectional. 

Pointlem, you make some good points about the finances.

The geography unfairness issue exists for other areas as well. I think that outside of Holland and the Hope alumni and friends community, that the rest of the D3 world would see giving Hope the opportunity to host all the way to the championship as an even greater injustice.

Does anyone know what time the NCAA will announce who is hosting the sectionals?
Best wishes to all of the teams that have advanced to round 3 next weekend.

Good points.  The left coast and Texas teams basically NEVER host sectionals, due to the NCAA's extreme reluctance to pony-up for plane fare.  (HPU last year, and UPS for the men the year before, are the only exceptions I can think of.)  And Hope playing all six games at home (assuming they make it that far, which I think they will) would indeed raise some hackles around the d3 world.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 08, 2009, 04:00:05 AM
But if the finals were not being played in Holland it would be OK for Hope to host next week... That seems a bit "unfair" as well!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 08, 2009, 08:06:27 AM
All great points.  I can see a legitimate arguement for all 4 teams to think they should host, and I suspect whatever the decision, their will be unhappy fans for sure - I'm just glad I don't have to make it.  Were I forced to do so, I would throw out any consideration of costs and let the highest remaining seed (whoever that is) host.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: cmlundy on March 08, 2009, 11:15:06 AM
Sectional to be hosted by Thomas More.  Reason being there is a star next to them on the Bracket.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: BlueZoneBruin on March 08, 2009, 12:00:15 PM
Quote from: cmlundy on March 08, 2009, 11:15:06 AM
Sectional to be hosted by Thomas More.  Reason being there is a star next to them on the Bracket.



Which bracket...haven't seen that yet...  Something tells me that a sectional in a 1200 capacity gym is gonna suck.

BlueZoneBruin
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 08, 2009, 12:01:02 PM
thats  nice  1100   gym   so like  300  a  team thats not a lot
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: BruinFan on March 08, 2009, 12:02:56 PM
Quote from: cmlundy on March 08, 2009, 11:15:06 AM
Sectional to be hosted by Thomas More.  Reason being there is a star next to them on the Bracket.



cmlundy, please reference your bracket source. The only star I have found on the brackets were for first and second round host sites. I don't see any indications on the updated bracket by d3hoops for the teams that have advanced to the third round.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: BlueZoneBruin on March 08, 2009, 12:06:00 PM
I didn't see any notation on the brackets on the NCAA site either.

BlueZoneBruin
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 08, 2009, 12:06:11 PM
11.00  am it was announced on the hope sports hot line tomas moore in ky
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: BruinFan on March 08, 2009, 12:18:51 PM
Attendance numbers from Round 2 box scores.
George Fox     2300
Hope              1755
Oglethorpe     1150


Thomas More's gym capacity according to d3hoops is 1200.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 08, 2009, 12:46:49 PM
FDF's prediction that Thomas More would host was on the mark. Considering the Saints' central location for the teams left in this bracket, and their overall record of 28-2, it makes sense for them to be the host.

Thomas More and Hope have two common opponents--Calvin and Washington & Jefferson. Back in November when Calvin was still healthy and had won their first five games, the Lady Knights experienced their first loss of the season at Crestview Hills, 73-60. Here's the link to the article written by Jeff Febus on November 29, along with the box score:

http://www.calvin.edu/sports/news/comments/womens-basketball-falls-at-thomas-more/

TM split their two regular season games with the Presidents, before beating W & J in the PrAC conference tournament. None of the games appear to have been routs. TM lost to Oglethorpe by 8 in Atlanta, the team Pat Coleman has coming out of this bracket. I rate Hope as the slim favorite to get back home with a chance to win a national championship on their own floor.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hopefan on March 08, 2009, 01:43:07 PM
fair is fair - no team should be given the possibility of playing all 6 NCAA tournament games on their home court.   Here's to Hope taking two on the road this coming weekend and playing in the final four in front of two sell-outs the following weekend!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 08, 2009, 02:12:01 PM
Quote from: hopefan on March 08, 2009, 01:43:07 PM
fair is fair - no team should be given the possibility of playing all 6 NCAA tournament games on their home court.   Here's to Hope taking two on the road this coming weekend and playing in the final four in front of two sell-outs the following weekend!!!

It was perfectly fine for years.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hopefan on March 08, 2009, 02:17:07 PM
Could this be Progress??  from our friends at the NCAA????
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 08, 2009, 02:59:45 PM
Quote from: hopefan on March 08, 2009, 02:17:07 PM
Could this be Progress??  from our friends at the NCAA????

It could certainly be considered that, yes.  I just really don't see the big deal, when its been done numerous times before.  Seedings wise I'm not sure Hope deserved to host a sectional in either 08 or 09 though.  But they certainly could have played last years sectional just as easily in Holland as Brownwood, TX.  We'll never know how much hosting the final four factored into that decision, but I think the general consensus was that it did.

I think most in Holland are just gratefull that after having numerous top rated teams for the past 6 trips to the tournament, we finally were rewarded with a set of home games.

Untill this weekend, I think it had been 16 straight NCAA tournament games on the road, going back to 2001.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on March 08, 2009, 04:53:32 PM
I understand why it seems unfair to some for Hope to have the opportunity to play six games on their home floor.

However, having a team strong enough to be considered a strong possiblity to make the final four the same two years the finals are hosted at your location is somewhat of a coincidence. 

Should Hope be penalized relative to teams of similar strength by not getting the opportunity to play the first four games at home?  After all, to play the national championship game you have to make the final four so why it is necessarily more fair to make it difficult for a team to get through the sectionals.

Of course, the team that consistently comes up short in the current system is George Fox whose fans and families are condemed required to travel and incur signifcant expense on a regular basis.  The TX and west coast schools must sometimes wonder about the advantages of D3 affliation. 

I know that D3 does not generate the revenue of D1, but the travel cost for D3 tournaments could not be more than a rounding error in the NCAAs annual budget.  It would seem, at least to me, more logical to have the geographic sectional locations predetermined in a manner similar to the final four.  The sweet 16 could be re-formulated after round two to minimize the travel for all to the greatest extent possible.  On some occasions a team may catch a break by playing at home - but with locations determined years in advance these occurences would be earned while at the same time having an element of randomness. 

Next year, IWU fans may find themselves in the same position as Hope does today.

For now everyone has to work within the current system, so Dutch fans make your reservation, pack your bags, burn a personal or vacation day and show up to cheer the girls to victory.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: cmlundy on March 08, 2009, 06:17:36 PM
My source was the NCAA.org website. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 08, 2009, 07:32:42 PM
WWWRHH: excellent posts. +k

cmlundy: Prior to the regional games, the regional hosts all had asterisks next to their school names, too.

FDF:  Your host prediction was correct.  Care to predict the sectional champ?  ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 08, 2009, 08:19:12 PM
I personally think if Hope didn't host, GF should have!!! They got rooked!!!  ;) ;)

One of these days I may see a Hope game in the PNW...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on March 09, 2009, 11:37:28 AM
Not to open old wounds, but when I spoke with a representative of the NCAA selection committee last year, she indicated Hope played where it did because of how they were seeded relative to Howard Payne, not because Holland was hosting the national semis.

NW Hope Fan: I like the quote at the bottom of your messages.

I'm headed to Thomas More for what should be a very exciting two days of hoops.  If anyone else will be there, stop by and say hello.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: cmlundy on March 09, 2009, 11:42:24 AM
Erm Schmigget:

I wouldn't had posted what I did if I wasn't 100% sure of where the sectional was going to be.  I just want to defend my position on this.  I decided to check the ncaa.org bracket where I noticed that where the sectional tournament starts there was an asterisk next to Thomas More.  George Fox, Olgethorpe nor us had a star.  Also 3 other teams in the final 16 had an asterisk. 

I made a common sense judgement.  Also before I posted, I checked the men's bracket just to make sure and they had ## next to the host site. 

A 1200 seat arena should prove interesting.  Hope and T.More have some common opponents, but outside of Washington and Jefferson, the league was less than impressive.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on March 09, 2009, 12:30:28 PM
Questions for the Calvin Fans Re: Thomas More:

What were the primary factors contributing to Calvin's loss to TM earlier this year?

From the box score I noted that TM shot 24 FTs vs. 12 for the Knights.  Was the free throw disparity a case of home court reffing vs. an out of region opponent (not that I have ever seen that happen) or just difficulty handling the big post player and the guard #33 Thiem.

It looks like Harris had a geat game, but Van Eck struggled.  Was this just a bad night for her (my assumption) or a matchup issue?

From her photo and roster listing of 6-0, it looks as if #21 Dickman is shorter than Knox and Snikkers, but is a little stockier than Hope's posts.  Is she agile and strong?  Would I be correct in assuming that Carrie with her height and shot blocking ability may be better suited for matching up inside than Marcia and Brook?  Will Knox's "physical" style of play be helpful against TM?

I also assume that Greene might be able to put the breaks on Thiem better than the average defender.

Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated.

PS:  If there are any W&J fans following the boards, your thoughts are also welcome.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 09, 2009, 01:18:06 PM
Quote from: cmlundy on March 09, 2009, 11:42:24 AM
Erm Schmigget:

I wouldn't had posted what I did if I wasn't 100% sure of where the sectional was going to be.  I just want to defend my position on this.  I decided to check the ncaa.org bracket where I noticed that where the sectional tournament starts there was an asterisk next to Thomas More.  George Fox, Olgethorpe nor us had a star.  Also 3 other teams in the final 16 had an asterisk. 

I made a common sense judgement.  Also before I posted, I checked the men's bracket just to make sure and they had ## next to the host site. 

A 1200 seat arena should prove interesting.  Hope and T.More have some common opponents, but outside of Washington and Jefferson, the league was less than impressive.

My post could have been taken as supportive, reaffirming that the use of an asterisk next to the host teams' names is a positive indicator of the fact they were the host.

I agree, the relatively diminutive host site should be interesting, coming off a few seasons in the DeVos.  Does anyone remember the capacity of the Dow Center when it was used to host NCAA tourney games?  I would bet it was more than 1200.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 09, 2009, 02:08:05 PM
Here's a quick team stat comparison between Hope and Thomas More



Offense     % 2pt   % 3pt      % FT
Hope     44.2   35.9      69.6
Thomas More     55.4   34.9      73.9
            
Defense     % 2pt   % 3pt     
Hope     33.4   30.3     
Thomas More     33.4   30.7     
            
Rebounding     Team   Opp      Margin
Hope     45.3   37.2      8.1
Thomas More     40.8   28      12.8
            
Scoring     Team   Opp      Margin
Hope     77.9   54.6      23.3
Thomas More     72.7   50.9      21.8
            
3 point shooting     Attempts   Made      Made/game
Hope     435   156      5.6
Thomas More     558   195      6.5
            
Blocks     Total   per game     
Hope     163   5.8     
Thomas More     107   3.6     
            
Steals     Total   per game     
Hope     395   14.1     
Thomas More     230   7.7     
            
Turnovers     Total    per game     
Hope     477   17     
Thomas More     511   17     
            
Assists     Total   per game     
Hope     444   15.9     
Thomas More     493   16.4     
            
Assist/Turnover             
Hope     0.93        
Thomas More     0.96        
            
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 09, 2009, 02:30:35 PM
hope colledge  might be taking a fan bus they need  35 people to go included a motel room and ticket  100.00  to  110.00   for each person  email the hope ticket office if you want to go  leave around  9.30   friday  am
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on March 09, 2009, 02:31:28 PM
Quote from: cmlundy on March 09, 2009, 11:42:24 AM
Erm Schmigget:
A 1200 seat arena should prove interesting.  Hope and T.More have some common opponents, but outside of Washington and Jefferson, the league was less than impressive.

The seating capacity in KY may not be an issue.

When Hope played St. Mary's for the conference championship, attendance was +2,200.

However, when Thomas More played W&J at home for the conference championship attendance was 723.

(I thought the stands looked as full for last Saturday's game at the DeVos Center as they did for the Saints game a week earlier, but official attendance was almost 500 less.)

Realistically, those that follow Hope, George Fox and Olglethorpe will be limited to family members and hard core fans, and it is really difficult for Fox supporters to make the trip.  I hope I am wrong, but if the Hope contingent exceeds 100 I will be happy.

Quote from: gordonmann on March 09, 2009, 11:37:28 AM
Not to open old wounds, but when I spoke with a representative of the NCAA selection committee last year, she indicated Hope played where it did because of how they were seeded relative to Howard Payne, not because Holland was hosting the national semis.

NW Hope Fan: I like the quote at the bottom of your messages.

I'm headed to Thomas More for what should be a very exciting two days of hoops.  If anyone else will be there, stop by and say hello.

I don't think the major issue was whether HPU deserved to host a sectional, but rather the grouping of HPU, Hope (and George Fox) into the same sectional.  In hingsight, I think that last year's final four was played in TX and I do not think Fox and Hope should be set up to meet in the elite eight this year.

With that said, expecially given the constraints the committees must consider, the women's bracket has clearly been more fair than the men's and some attempt is made to reward strong play during the season.

Flying Dutch Fan:

Thanks for the breakdown.  On paper it looks like the teams are fairly even.  TM appears to be an exceptional shooting team.

It looks like Hope may have an advantage on defense where they have posted significantly more steals and blocks than TM.  

Also, More's starters play more minutes and score a higher % of the team's points than the Dutch starters, so Hope may have a little more depth.

The thing that makes me most hopeful is Hope's game against W&J.  W&J beat TM once and gave them a tough game in their conference championship.  In those games, W&J was able to hold TM to well below their scoring average.

It looks like the key to beating Thomas More is slowing #21 Dickman and #33 Thiem.  I have not seen the Saints play, but I suspect that Snikkers and Greene may be the type of players that match up well against a fast guard and big, in-the-paint center.  (those conclusions are based only on reading between the Saints stat lines, looking at their pictures and being a close observer of the Dutch.)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 09, 2009, 03:07:38 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on March 09, 2009, 01:18:06 PM
Quote from: cmlundy on March 09, 2009, 11:42:24 AM
Erm Schmigget:

I wouldn't had posted what I did if I wasn't 100% sure of where the sectional was going to be.  I just want to defend my position on this.  I decided to check the ncaa.org bracket where I noticed that where the sectional tournament starts there was an asterisk next to Thomas More.  George Fox, Olgethorpe nor us had a star.  Also 3 other teams in the final 16 had an asterisk. 

I made a common sense judgement.  Also before I posted, I checked the men's bracket just to make sure and they had ## next to the host site. 

A 1200 seat arena should prove interesting.  Hope and T.More have some common opponents, but outside of Washington and Jefferson, the league was less than impressive.

My post could have been taken as supportive, reaffirming that the use of an asterisk next to the host teams' names is a positive indicator of the fact they were the host.

I agree, the relatively diminutive host site should be interesting, coming off a few seasons in the DeVos.  Does anyone remember the capacity of the Dow Center when it was used to host NCAA tourney games?  I would bet it was more than 1200.

I think we squeezed 1300 in there for the men's tournament games, but that was using the upstairs track as seating.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: cmlundy on March 09, 2009, 03:09:49 PM
Capacity of the Dow Center was 1500 for NCAA tournament games

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on March 09, 2009, 03:17:02 PM
Quote from: hope1 on March 09, 2009, 02:30:35 PM
hope colledge  might be taking a fan bus they need  35 people to go included a motel room and ticket  100.00  to  110.00   for each person  email the hope ticket office if you want to go  leave around  9.30   friday  am

As of about 1PM on Monday, 18 people had signed up for the bus trip, so we are halfway there.  Call the Hope ticket office now to reserve your spot!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 09, 2009, 03:46:36 PM
Quote from: cmlundy on March 09, 2009, 03:09:49 PM
Capacity of the Dow Center was 1500 for NCAA tournament games



My memory of those days must be slipping.........I actually found an old box score that listed attendance as 1600 vs Christopher Newport in 1998.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: fannie on March 09, 2009, 11:20:11 PM
For the avid West Michigan basketball junkie...it looks like Grand Valley women will be playing less than 20 miles away from our Hope women in their first round of NCAA action on Friday, for those fortunate to travel there you COULD possibly take in both games!  GVSU will be playing in Highland Heights Kentucky on Friday...times yet to be determined.....West Michigan Women's basketball invades Northern Kentucky!!!! :-)

GO HOPE!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 09, 2009, 11:37:52 PM
Quote from: fannie on March 09, 2009, 11:20:11 PM
For the avid West Michigan basketball junkie...it looks like Grand Valley women will be playing less than 20 miles away from our Hope women in their first round of NCAA action on Friday, for those fortunate to travel there you COULD possibly take in both games!  GVSU will be playing in Highland Heights Kentucky on Friday...times yet to be determined.....West Michigan Women's basketball invades Northern Kentucky!!!! :-)

GO HOPE!
NCAA Division II Women's Basketball
Midwest Region Tournament
Bank of Kentucky Center, Highland Heights, Ky.



Regional First Round • Friday, March 13
Game 1. Quincy (26-4) vs. Drury (19-9), 12 noon
Game 2. Hillsdale (27-3) vs. Indianapolis (22-9), 2:30 p.m.
Game 3: Northern Kentucky (28-2) vs. Grand Valley State (20-9), 6:00 p.m.
Game 4: Michigan Tech (24-6) vs. Northwood (21-7), 8:30 p.m.


Don't think that would work, good idea though. :)


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 10, 2009, 12:00:07 AM
I've never done offensive and defensive efficiency numbers for women's basketball, but I did them for this Sectional.  Think of them as points per 100 posessions.

Offensive
Thomas More 105.5
Hope 102.9
George Fox 100.6
Oglethorpe 99.7

Defensive
George Fox 70.7
Hope 72.5
Thomas More 74.4
Oglethorpe 81.3

These defensive numbers I think are kind of mind blowing.  These should be 3 low scoring games.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on March 10, 2009, 10:25:34 AM
Go to www.hope.edu/ticketoffice for details on the bus trip to see the Hope women play in Kentucky.  We want to make sure that we have enough people to take a bus on the road to, HOPEfully, a national championship!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on March 10, 2009, 09:06:35 PM
Quote from: AlwaysHope on March 10, 2009, 10:25:34 AM
Go to www.hope.edu/ticketoffice for details on the bus trip to see the Hope women play in Kentucky.  We want to make sure that we have enough people to take a bus on the road to, HOPEfully, a national championship!

We now have enough people for the bus, but there are still a few seats left.  Call the ticket office if interested.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on March 10, 2009, 11:52:29 PM
I went to the regional at Thomas More back in 2004 when the Saints hosted Wilmington, Puget Sound and Buena Vista.  The TMC game against Wilmington (which isn't far from Crestview Hills) was the loudest I've ever heard a gym for a women's game.

Given the potential traveling contingent from Hope, I'll bring the sound reducing headphones. :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 11, 2009, 10:21:58 AM
Congrats to Carrie Snikkers on being named to the WBCA All-Region team, and she is now eligible for All-American recognition by the WBCA.  She is one of only 4 sophomores selected.

http://www.wbca.org/Releases/SFCAATFinalistsDIII09.html

Also congrats to Coach Mo on being named the regional coach of the year by the WBCA.  He is now in tyhe running for National Coach of the year (this is Mo's 3rd Coach of the region award)

http://www.wbca.org/Releases/Regional_COY_DII_DIII_NAIA_2009.html

FWIW - the Thomas More sectional will include 3 Regional coaches of the year (it couldn't be 4 since Thomas More and Hope are in the same region).  Each team also has one all-region player.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on March 12, 2009, 01:04:12 PM
One would think that if Hope could take down a school named after John Calvin that they ought to have little difficulty with ones named after Thomas More and George Fox, if not for theological reasons, then at least for the sheer heft of their relative contributions. What would it suggest if we beat a reformer, a Catholic, and a Quaker but got taken down last year by a Baptist?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on March 12, 2009, 01:25:12 PM
Quote from: HopeConvert on March 12, 2009, 01:04:12 PM
One would think that if Hope could take down a school named after John Calvin that they ought to have little difficulty with ones named after Thomas More and George Fox, if not for theological reasons, then at least for the sheer heft of their relative contributions. What would it suggest if we beat a reformer, a Catholic, and a Quaker but got taken down last year by a Baptist?

I am hestitant to suggest this, but perhaps it would mean that neo-Calvinism muddled with some Arminian free-will thinking is not an entirely bad thing  :) or there are undiscovered Baptists on Hope's roster and God went with the majority because he prefers congregational governance.

Or it could mean that it is hard to play a good team far away from home and against all the advantages that home court can provide, because He does not care who wins basketball games.....in other words being able to enjoy the game is an example of common grace available to all, but is not related to attonement in any way.

I don't know if God cares (about basketball), but I do....Go Hope!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 12, 2009, 02:36:03 PM
Thomas More will have live video for both games, this is supposed to be the link.

http://www.teamline.cc/teampage?teamcode=2585
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dothedew on March 13, 2009, 05:37:23 PM
How nice to have a video broadcast that actually works :) Thanks for the link, Sac.
It is nice to see all those Hope fans in the video!
GO BLUE
GO ORANGE
GO HOPE
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 13, 2009, 06:56:54 PM
Vera and Erm, checking in from NHBC for the webcast.   ;D  The webcast looks good over the head of a Sheehan's Irish Stout (delicious).

Here we go!

GO HOPE!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 13, 2009, 06:59:14 PM
Why, oh why can't Hope do this for all home games?  :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 13, 2009, 07:07:58 PM
did he just say Hope is slower?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 13, 2009, 07:21:17 PM
The broadcast itself is excellent, different camara shots, crowd shots, updated graphics with players names.......something you rarely see in D3 internet broadcasts.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 13, 2009, 07:29:27 PM
incredibly, 16-18, Thomas More, w/ less than 6 min. in the 1st.  Hope needs to play their game and stop worrying about the quick score
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 13, 2009, 07:44:16 PM
26-25 Hope at half, Gee with a late 3 to bring it to 1.  Kopke with a chance to get the lead back to 3 with an uncontested layup.  Oops.  Too many missed puppies in the 1st half, along with 4 late missed freethrows.  Nerves?  I'm sure Coach Mo has lots to talk about.  Look for some adjustments--just like many other games we've seen this year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 13, 2009, 07:45:45 PM
I have not seen the girls play before, but it looks like they are forcing a lot of shots. Playing super D, but need to take more time and set up their attempts at the basket... They could be up by 10+

Hi J and J!!

Go Hope!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 13, 2009, 07:48:08 PM
Just noticed... with all the props to the TV production... "Hope College Flying Dutchmen"  ::) Oh well... can't be perfect!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 13, 2009, 07:52:28 PM
Got to run... Enjoy the rest of the game! I'll check in later...

-K
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 13, 2009, 07:55:17 PM
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on March 13, 2009, 07:45:45 PM
I have not seen the girls play before, but it looks like they are forcing a lot of shots. Playing super D, but need to take more time and set up their attempts at the basket... They could be up by 10+

Hi J and J!!

Go Hope!!!

This is just what Vera said.  I'm used to them missing layups, but they also are getting far fewer offensive rebounds than it seems like they usually do.  Thankfully, lots of steals, as usual.  Now... just make some points off of all those turnovers.  SHEESH!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 13, 2009, 08:05:05 PM
Glad I'm not the only one who thought Hope rushed things a little.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 13, 2009, 08:10:08 PM
Hope by 9 w/ 5 to go
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 13, 2009, 08:30:24 PM
Jenny Cowen's blood is ice water.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 13, 2009, 08:33:03 PM
Quote from: sac on March 13, 2009, 08:30:24 PM
Jenny Cowen's blood is ice water.

sweet!!!

61-49  2 1/2 to go, here come the fouls...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 13, 2009, 08:48:17 PM
Hope 67 Thomas More 51

For all the questions about Hope's depth this year and whether it was good enough to get them back to the elite 8..........Hope's bench outscored Thomas More 27-6!  They came up big tonight.

Jenny Cowen had a great second half,  hard to argue against her play being the difference.  I think she had 16 second half points, and her two three's late in the 2nd half thwarted any chance by TM to gain momentum.

The final minute was one of the classiest final minutes I've ever seen, big pat on the back to both teams for that..............Hope runs the clock down, step out of bound intentionally, no fouls from Thomas More then Thomas More just dribbles out the clock.............no pointless desperate shots etc.  Refreshing to say the least.


Also funny moment before the broadcast, when Thomas More head men's coach John Ellenwood was caught in an open mike........"God they're big". :D


Congrats ladies and Go Hope!

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 13, 2009, 08:53:04 PM
1:20 to go, Hope up by a bunch, Hope going to the line, and the computer decides it needs to reboot.  AAAARRRRRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good thing for me we brought the radio for backup....so Vera could listen.   ;)

Congrats, Hope.  Elite again.

See you in person tomorrow.

GO HOPE!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 13, 2009, 09:11:25 PM
The MIAA takes it on the chin a little bit when people talk about its quality of play.  I'll just point out this is the 6th time in 7 years an MIAA rep will play for a chance to go to the final four.  Hope 4 times, Calvin twice, and once Calvin had to beat Albion in the Sweet 16 to get to the elite 8.


For Hope, this is the 4th time in their last 5 NCAA tournaments they've made the Sectional Final.

2003--Wisc.-Eau Claire 74, Hope 56
2006--Hope 76, DePauw, Ind. 60
2008--Howard Payne, Tex. 53, Hope 49
2009-- vs George Fox (29-0)

Last year Hope beat George Fox 47-40 in the Sweet 16.

The George Fox website and +k to their SID for alreay updating their Sweet 16's to include 2009.
http://www.georgefox.edu/athletics/womens_bball/index.html

GF has 10 Freshmen.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on March 13, 2009, 09:47:22 PM
Hope bench = 11/14 FG 4-4 3pt 2 turnovers in 60 minutes of combined time. SOLID!!

I hope to expect Knox to have a better game tomorrow.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 13, 2009, 09:53:27 PM
Quote from: jspiii on March 13, 2009, 09:47:22 PM
Hope bench = 11/14 FG 4-4 3pt 2 turnovers in 60 minutes of combined time. SOLID!!

I hope to expect Knox to have a better game tomorrow.

You may go ahead and expect.

+k fer the chuckle
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on March 13, 2009, 11:46:25 PM
Speaking of class, with the game still up in the air in the 2nd half, a Thomas More player hit the floor after a Hope offensive rebound. She was obviously injured and Hope was off and running 5 on 4, while the TM player lays under  their basket.  Suddenly, a time out was called.....by Brian Moreland.  As I expressed my astonishment, someone who works in Mo's office explained that Mo does not like to see such a situation in which the injured player's team does not have the ball and cannot call a timeout, so he will call a timeout so that the player can be attended to.  Mega kudos for a class act. 

Tomorrow night's game will be interesting.  I doubt George Fox has faced the kind of pressure defense Hope will surely bring.  GF's 6'4" center basically glues down herself in the low post.  It will be interesting to see how Hope handles her and how she handles Hope's 3 very active post players. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: BruinFan on March 14, 2009, 12:49:51 AM
I was surprised to see that the attendance for the George Fox - Oglethorpe game was listed at 1136 and the attendance for the Hope-TM game was at 1200.  I could only see parts of the bleachers on the internet video, but they must have figured the attendance near the end of the game as Thomas More and Hope fans were coming in. It looked like there was plenty of empty seats during the first game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: BruinFan on March 14, 2009, 12:56:18 AM
Great to hear about Coach Mo's sportsmanship by taking timeout for the injured player. Nice to know there are few left that still think that way.

George Fox plays against a physical and tough University of Puget Sound at least twice a year. (4 times last year).  I'm sure that Hope's defense will be a significant challenge for the Bruins.
I'm looking for a great game and it will be fun if both teams are playing well.

I think the winner of this game will be favorite in the national semi-final.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope80 on March 14, 2009, 08:15:34 AM
good game girls all the way
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 14, 2009, 10:23:12 AM
Random thoughts from the Hope/Thomas More game. 

- As others have commented, Hope seems to be rushing on the offense for most of the first half.  Huge minutes from Rachel Kutney helped Hope keep the slimmest of leads at the half. 

- Knox was really hampered throughout by foul trouble.  4 points and 1 rebound in 16 minutes.  I predict we see a big game from Courtney tonight.

- The second half Hope really got their offense going, and the D was great. 

- Crowd support was awesome - I'm guessing 350 Hope fans (and all of them / us were loud).  I look for an even bigger Hope crowd tonight - giving the Hope team a bit of a home fan advantage.

- Kudos to Carrie Snikkers for an extremely tough, physical game.  To Jenny Cowen for shooting the lights out in the second half.  To Erica Bruinsma for a great all around game, and to Miranda DeKuiper for 2 huge threes.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on March 14, 2009, 12:29:37 PM
Please pardon my senior moment in calling Coach Mo Brian Moreland vice Morehouse.  As a die-hard Cubs fan, I must have had Keith Moreland on my mind....as in "watch Keith Moreland drop a routine fly."  Time for my Geritol and warm milk.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 14, 2009, 07:34:44 PM
Halftime

George Fox 29 Hope 28

Its a good one.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on March 14, 2009, 08:05:13 PM
Yikes! Can't make a shot.  :'(
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 14, 2009, 08:06:45 PM
at the moment 3-20 by my count this half.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on March 14, 2009, 08:08:03 PM
The scorekeeper will need a macro for the word "missed."
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on March 14, 2009, 08:08:55 PM
Dangerous point of the game right here. Two straight 3's for the Quakers.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on March 14, 2009, 08:24:57 PM
25% shootng on the game. I'll be interested to hear whether it was just bad shooting or really good D.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 14, 2009, 08:26:25 PM
.......both

6th chance to get the score under 6 in a row
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on March 14, 2009, 08:27:12 PM
You see the words "missed layup" that often, and you wonder what's going on.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 14, 2009, 08:29:53 PM
Quote from: HopeConvert on March 14, 2009, 08:27:12 PM
You see the words "missed layup" that often, and you wonder what's going on.

The big girl for GF has a load of blocks..........but
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 14, 2009, 08:35:29 PM
Hope shot 6-44 in the 2nd half........that about sums it up.

George Fox 58 Hope 46


Great season ladies!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 15, 2009, 09:20:00 AM
just back from thomas and moore hope missed a lot of layups win they had a chance in the 2nd half to cut the lead from 8 points to 6  came down like 8 times and missed a layup it did  not help wth the refrees they were pretty bad but hope missed a lot of chances to win the game. the big part i think is when jenny  sprained her ankle that took a lot out of hope but 2 seniors leaving they had a great career 1 championship   3  final 8   thats pretty good. hope schould be pretty good next year to, but what a great year  28-2 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: BruinFan on March 15, 2009, 03:36:55 PM
Hope did have a great year. Congratulations to your seniors on a super 4 years.

Here's what I posted on the Northwest Conference board.

Yes, ideally the Hope-George Fox game would have been in the Final 4. You have a great team and I think most Bruin fans gave the Flying Dutch a slight edge going into the game.  If they were to play 10 times, I think every game would be a battle.

It would be great if some Hope faithful want to adopt George Fox next weekend. We have the furthest to travel and I'm hearing airfare is running $500 to $600. We will have some fans make the trip, but mostly family and former players.

Hope has a great program and I'm sure you will continue to be a top tier team.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gfuandrew on March 15, 2009, 06:51:49 PM
Excellent game Hope. That was definitely not an elite 8 game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 17, 2009, 06:06:13 PM
that is really nice for carrie snikkers to make the the great lakres region team 1st team and the player of the year  to 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on March 19, 2009, 12:34:13 PM
Quote from: BruinFan on March 15, 2009, 03:36:55 PM
Hope did have a great year. Congratulations to your seniors on a super 4 years.

Here's what I posted on the Northwest Conference board.

Yes, ideally the Hope-George Fox game would have been in the Final 4. You have a great team and I think most Bruin fans gave the Flying Dutch a slight edge going into the game.  If they were to play 10 times, I think every game would be a battle.

It would be great if some Hope faithful want to adopt George Fox next weekend. We have the furthest to travel and I'm hearing airfare is running $500 to $600. We will have some fans make the trip, but mostly family and former players.

Hope has a great program and I'm sure you will continue to be a top tier team.

Count me in as a foster parent for George Fox this weekend.  Hope was beaten  [at least] last Saturday by a better team.  Your guards were awesome and your center locked up the middle tight as a drum.  Not to mention that someone must have screwed an invisible lid on our offensive basket.  So, for this weekend at least:  Let's Go Bruins!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: BruinFan on March 19, 2009, 09:28:33 PM
Quote from: wwjjdd on March 19, 2009, 12:34:13 PM
Quote from: BruinFan on March 15, 2009, 03:36:55 PM
Hope did have a great year. Congratulations to your seniors on a super 4 years.

Hope has a great program and I'm sure you will continue to be a top tier team.

Count me in as a foster parent for George Fox this weekend.  Hope was beaten  [at least] last Saturday by a better team.  Your guards were awesome and your center locked up the middle tight as a drum.  Not to mention that someone must have screwed an invisible lid on our offensive basket.  So, for this weekend at least:  Let's Go Bruins!!


Thanks wwjjdd - appreciate the support. I will have to settle for watching from Oregon. Sounds like the local community in Holland does a good job supporting the Final Four. Enjoy the games.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeCSO on March 20, 2009, 08:15:25 AM
http://www.wbca.org/Releases/SFCAATDIII09.html

Carrie Snikkers was named a Division III All-American by the National Association of Women's Basketball Coaches on Thursday night. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 21, 2009, 03:05:31 PM
Is there solice in losing to the National Champion in the quarterfinals two years in a row.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 21, 2009, 08:26:26 PM
Quote from: sac on March 21, 2009, 03:05:31 PM
Is there solice in losing to the National Champion in the quarterfinals two years in a row.
Yes, Sac, some solace . . . though also some pain knowing that the NCAA bracket pairings both years precluded what could have been such a packed, rock concert-like season grand finale.

Nevertheless, George Fox is a very worthy national champion . . . and it's good to see a sister liberal arts college win it all.  I also tip my hat to the Hope team and coaches for a terrific season, with play and spirit that made them a joy to watch.  And given who's returning, I'm expecting next season will be more of the same.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on March 23, 2009, 11:12:02 AM
Does anyone know the attendance figures for the men's tournament in Salem?  According to the Holland Sentinel (fwiw), Friday's women's session at De Vos was attended by 1,587, with 1,830 attending on Saturday for the Final.  This makes a total of 3,417 for the two sessions.  Last year the women outdrew the men and I'm wondering what the situation was this year.  I am having trouble finding box-scores of the men's games to find out the attendance.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on March 23, 2009, 11:46:34 AM
Here are the attendance numbers on a game-by-game basis per the box scores posted on different schools' websites.

Wash U-Guilford attendance: 2,223
Richard Stockton - F&M attendance: 2,266
F&M - Guilford attendance: 1,893
Wash U-Richard Stockton attendance: 2,263
TOTAL - 8,645


Amherst - Wash U attendance: 1,569
TCNJ - George Fox attendance: 1,587
Amherst - TCNJ attendance: 1,758
Wash U - George Fox attendance: 1,830
TOTAL - 6,744
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 23, 2009, 09:56:58 PM
Quote from: HopeCSO on March 20, 2009, 08:15:25 AM
http://www.wbca.org/Releases/SFCAATDIII09.html

Carrie Snikkers was named a Division III All-American by the National Association of Women's Basketball Coaches on Thursday night. 

Congratulations to Carrie. It's a tremendous honor to get All-American status from the WBCA--an organization that only names 10 players to its team. Including the 31 Honorable Mentions, Snikkers is one of only 5 sophomores to be named among the 41 players listed, and the award she rightly earned couldn't go to a finer person. If Carrie was a selfish, ego-driven athlete her personal statistics would garner more general notice, but the coaches who voted obviously know her value on the court. She has always been an excellent teammate and well liked for her genuine humility.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hopefan on March 24, 2009, 12:06:50 PM
Gordon Mann  -  I don't think same day attendances at same venue are meant to be additive... ::) 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on March 24, 2009, 02:15:33 PM
Hopefan:

Perhaps not.  But I was trying to provide an estimate that is better than the one referenced in WWJD's post while providing a point of comparison between the Men's and Women's Final Four. 

WWJD's post refers to 1,587 for the Friday session and 1,830 for the Saturday sessions for a total count of 3,417.  Those aren't session numbers, they are attendance from the later two games in each session.  Unless you assume every person who attended the second session attended the first one too, that's not a good measure of attendance. 

My point was that you get a better comparison from taking total attendance at all four games for the women and doing the same for men.  Are you double counting the same people twice?  Absolutely.  But it's better than ignoring attendance figures for half the games played.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope81 on March 25, 2009, 12:40:13 PM
The GR Press announced their dream team today.  As mentioned earlier on here, Verkaik is heading for Calvin.  Hope apparently is getting the excellent point guard from East Grand Rapids, Ellis.  She is EGR's all time leading scorer, averaging about 14 per game.

I know Morehouse is high on her.  Could be an interesting year if she lives up to potential.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 25, 2009, 01:54:08 PM
Quote from: hope81 on March 25, 2009, 12:40:13 PM
The GR Press announced their dream team today.  As mentioned earlier on here, Verkaik is heading for Calvin.  Hope apparently is getting the excellent point guard from East Grand Rapids, Ellis.  She is EGR's all time leading scorer, averaging about 14 per game.

I know Morehouse is high on her.  Could be an interesting year if she lives up to potential.

I saw Hope's main weakness for next year's team coming from an unsettled backcourt situation. This is a good pickup for Hope who needed a quality guard. I think Ellis will play and contribute valuable minutes right away.

Verkaik's coming to Calvin is an even bigger pickup. She doesn't have the natural athleticism or elegant shooting style of Carrie Snikkers, but Carissa is an excellent defender and the best shot blocker I've ever seen at the high school level other than MSU's Allyssa DeHaan.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 25, 2009, 07:16:24 PM
Quote from: oldknight on March 25, 2009, 01:54:08 PM
Quote from: hope81 on March 25, 2009, 12:40:13 PM
The GR Press announced their dream team today.  As mentioned earlier on here, Verkaik is heading for Calvin.  Hope apparently is getting the excellent point guard from East Grand Rapids, Ellis.  She is EGR's all time leading scorer, averaging about 14 per game.

I know Morehouse is high on her.  Could be an interesting year if she lives up to potential.

I saw Hope's main weakness for next year's team coming from an unsettled backcourt situation. This is a good pickup for Hope who needed a quality guard. I think Ellis will play and contribute valuable minutes right away.

Verkaik's coming to Calvin is an even bigger pickup. She doesn't have the natural athleticism or elegant shooting style of Carrie Snikkers, but Carissa is an excellent defender and the best shot blocker I've ever seen at the high school level other than MSU's Allyssa DeHaan.

Is it really that hard to be an excellent shot blocker when you're 6-8?

There was a hilarious video of MSU's celebration over Duke last night on TV-10, with Alyssa in the middle towering over everyone around her.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 25, 2009, 08:04:27 PM
Every photo I've seen of DeHaan blocking a shot, her feet were flat on the floor - not even tiptoes, much less jumping.  That amount of height differential just ain't fair! ;)

I get this image of Yao Ming playing church-league ball. ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: OC_SID on March 25, 2009, 09:03:41 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 25, 2009, 08:04:27 PM
Every photo I've seen of DeHaan blocking a shot, her feet were flat on the floor - not even tiptoes, much less jumping.  That amount of height differential just ain't fair! ;)

I get this image of Yao Ming playing church-league ball. ;D

I saw DeHaan in person on Sunday in the first round and last night in the second round ... I agree that almost every shot that she takes or every shot she blocks happens when she is flat-footed ...

I helped put together the post-game notes package, so I was at press row ... I have never seen a women's basketball game with such great emotion from the players and fans ... It was awesome!!!

Quote from: sac on March 25, 2009, 07:16:24 PM
There was a hilarious video of MSU's celebration over Duke last night on TV-10, with Alyssa in the middle towering over everyone around her.

Yeah, I had a great view of that, and it was a neat thing to see ... Funny thing was also Merchant and McCallie immediately went over by the ESPN crew to do a live post-game interview ... They did Merchant and then went back by the locker rooms to interview McCallie ... When I was leaving McCallie was leaving, and she was very nice and thanked all of the MSU staff for doing a great job running the tournament.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 29, 2009, 02:13:59 AM
Tonite's results: ISU - 3 blocks; MSU players not named DeHaan - 3 blocks; DeHaan - 5 blocks!  Alas, and despite her also scoring 24 points, it was not quite enough: ISU scored the last 8 points of the game to win 69-68.  MSU led 68-61 with only 1:24 to go.

If only Alyssa could have gotten one more block! :(
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on May 26, 2009, 12:17:06 AM
Hope's women's schedule

http://www.hope.edu/pr/athletics/wbb/
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on June 05, 2009, 12:36:13 PM
NCAA official attendance figures for women's hoops have been released at:

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/8ac0d7804e543548a108f3ae91fec9bb/Awide_wbkb+att+list.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CACHEID=8ac0d7804e543548a108f3ae91fec9bb

Hope finished first in D3 with a home average of 1269 while Calvin was third at 1053 per game--just two spectators per game behind second place UW-Eau Claire. Calvin's athletic office also reports the NCAA confirmed that Calvin did set a single game attendance record with 4395 fans at the opener of Van Noord Arena on January 7, besting the previous single game record set by Howard Payne for a 2007 tournament game against Chapman.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on June 06, 2009, 10:49:15 AM
News regarding an MIAA coach:

http://www.alma.edu/athletics/wbb/archives/2009/06/04/goffnettretirement
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on July 03, 2009, 09:21:12 AM
Newer News!


http://www.themorningsun.com/articles/2009/07/02/sports/doc4a4baf9bc40cf038460471.txt
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on July 30, 2009, 10:59:10 PM
I'm told Hope added another home date to the schedule......I have no idea which game it might be.

http://www.hope.edu/athletics/winter.html#wbball

.....also, they can play and study.

http://www.hope.edu/pr/pressreleases/content/view/full/23605
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: fannie on October 20, 2009, 07:02:37 AM
http://www.hollandsentinel.com/sports/x536357325/Hope-tips-off-basketball-practice-eyeing-Final-Four-again
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on October 22, 2009, 10:02:50 PM
Calvin's women's roster for 2009-10 is up:

http://www.calvin.edu/sports/womens/basketball/roster.htm

Several talented freshmen are included on the varsity including Carissa Verkaik (Holland Christian), Julia Hilbrands (GR Christian), Allison Wolffis (Mona Shores), and Shelby Carter (Byron Center). I didn't know John Ross had gotten Carter to come. She's not as well known as the others but is a good pickup for the Lady Knights.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on October 23, 2009, 09:14:47 AM
Quote from: oldknight on October 22, 2009, 10:02:50 PM
Calvin's women's roster for 2009-10 is up:

http://www.calvin.edu/sports/womens/basketball/roster.htm

Several talented freshmen are included on the varsity including Carissa Verkaik (Holland Christian), Julia Hilbrands (GR Christian), Allison Wolffis (Mona Shores), and Shelby Carter (Byron Center). I didn't know John Ross had gotten Carter to come. She's not as well known as the others but is a good pickup for the Lady Knights.

There appears to be an error on the roster. Junior guard Allie Duernberger (up from two years on JV) is from Newport Beach, CA (Corona del Mar H.S.), not East Lansing, MI.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on October 24, 2009, 02:34:47 PM
I'm told Hope has 6 Fr. on its roster this year, which is interesting considering they only lost Courtney Knox and Kaitlyn Kopke to graduation.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on October 24, 2009, 03:32:00 PM
a couple of girls from last years team did not try out i know  boles jessica
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on October 25, 2009, 07:50:33 AM
Apparently the Holland Sentinel got a peak at the roster before it's been posted. 

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/sports/x1717106715/Flying-Dutch-eye-new-starters-at-point-guard-center

Freshman on the roster

?? point guard Liz Ellis from East Grand Rapids
5-10 guard Courtney Kust from Cincinnati
5-10 guard/forward Jill Nichols from Brighton
6-1 forward Ashley Bauman from Manistee Catholic Central
5-9 guard Olivia Allore from Muskegon Catholic Central
6-1 forward Meredith Kussmaul from Hartland
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on October 25, 2009, 08:34:46 PM
Flying Dutch have their varsity and JV rosters posted

http://www.hope.edu/pr/athletics/wbb/wbbrost.html
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on October 26, 2009, 02:09:10 PM
There is room for six freshman (and one player up from JV) because several girls from last year's team decided to leave the program.

As already mentioned, Jessa Boles chose not to pursue basketball.

Also, post players Elise Adams and Heather Kreuse both left the program.  Given Adams limited playing time, and long distance from home (MN) which limited time with family at the holidays I don't think her decision came as a real surprise.

However, Kreuse had won some pt and a lot of respect with her hard work by the end of last season, so I think her decision, as well as Jessa's, came as a surprise to at least several of the players.

Dani Fegan had actually left the program shortly before the NCAA tourney due to family / personal reasons.

I also noted that Amy Veltkamp is not on the roster, but I cannot speculate as to why, excep...

The Dutch program takes a lot of commitment and hard work and sometimes when players evaluate their potential role and playing time, they conclude that the time basketball consumes is not worth the activities and experiences that must be sacrificed if they are to excel academically and athletically.  I think in most cases it is a very tough choice.

Emily O'Hare's transfer last year,  Knox's graduation,  combined with Kreuse and Adam's departure, leaves the Dutch with only three experienced post players.  However, considering the three are Snikkers plus Bruinsma and Kutney they should still have the strongest post combination in the conference.  I also hear that a couple of the freshman posts have the potential to be very good.

I am somewhat concerned about the lack of experience at the 1 position - Phillips and Cerone each have some strong points, but I don't think either has the leadership presence of Henderson or Kopke yet.  Hopefully, both can step up and develop quickly.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope81 on October 26, 2009, 05:39:19 PM
Never fear WWWRHH, there are other players in the mix at the one position as well.  In fact, the Hope fans may be talking that the young-un is leading us by tournament time.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Civic Minded on October 27, 2009, 03:28:06 PM
Quote from: hope81 on October 26, 2009, 05:39:19 PM
Never fear WWWRHH, there are other players in the mix at the one position as well.  In fact, the Hope fans may be talking that the young-un is leading us by tournament time.

I, too, had heard that there is a recruit at the one position that should be very exciting to watch.  Can't wait!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on October 27, 2009, 03:59:02 PM
Thanks Civic Minded and hope81 - the 1 position has not been as deep as the 4/5 for the past couple of years.  Phillips seems to fit best as a 2, so it is good to hear there is goof potential in the incoming class.

The team will look different this year without a Wood / Lange / Knox type center (maybe there is a physical newcomer) - but Bruinsma's ball handling and outside touch will present opponents some real match up problems when she is paired with Snikkers.

Depth and skill at point would round out the team for at least the next two seasons.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on October 27, 2009, 06:54:17 PM
Quote from: WWWRHH on October 27, 2009, 03:59:02 PM
Thanks Civic Minded and hope81 - the 1 position has not been as deep as the 4/5 for the past couple of years.  Phillips seems to fit best as a 2, so it is good to hear there is goof potential in the incoming class.

The team will look different this year without a Wood / Lange / Knox type center (maybe there is a physical newcomer) - but Bruinsma's ball handling and outside touch will present opponents some real match up problems when she is paired with Snikkers.

Depth and skill at point would round out the team for at least the next two seasons.


I believe we all benefit from having a bit of goof potential.  And I'm glad to see that you are living up to yours.

;) ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on October 27, 2009, 10:35:23 PM
Good thing they don't have to rely on me at point, not only do I dribble with my head down and have a weak left hand, but I may not be able to stay academically elgible.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on November 05, 2009, 02:18:29 PM
Does anyone know the pre-season scrimmage schedule for the Dutch?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on November 05, 2009, 04:28:43 PM
MIAA Coaches Poll:
1. Hope (6) 8
2. Calvin (2) 13
3. Saint Mary's 22
4. Albion 29
5. Trine 30
6. Adrian 38
7. Olivet 46
8. Alma 49
9. Kalamazoo 53

The point totals are confusing me though -- only 8 coaches submitted votes?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on November 05, 2009, 06:07:37 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on November 05, 2009, 04:28:43 PM
MIAA Coaches Poll:
1. Hope (6) 8
2. Calvin (2) 13
3. Saint Mary's 22
4. Albion 29
5. Trine 30
6. Adrian 38
7. Olivet 46
8. Alma 49
9. Kalamazoo 53

The point totals are confusing me though -- only 8 coaches submitted votes?

Hope only received 6 #1 votes.  Assuming the rest were #2 votes, wouldn't their point total be 12?  (Six first place votes: 6x1, plus three second place: 3x2.)  Does this mean only 7 coaches submitted votes?  But Calvin received 2 first place votes, so the total number of frist place votes cast equals 8.   ??? ??? ???

'Splain, Lucy, 'splain!!

Here's a thought:  1 coach's votes were not in on time, and coaches could not vote for their own team:

Hope:  1,1,1,1,1,1,2
Calvin:  1,1,2,2,2,2,3
St Mary's:  2,2,3,3,4,4,4
Albion: 
Trine: 
Adrian: 
Olivet: 
Alma: 
Kzoo: 

That's a start, maybe someone else can fill in the rest.   ::)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 06, 2009, 01:56:29 AM
Stay with me...........

You cannot vote for your own team.........meaning each coach submits a ballot with 8 teams 1 thru 8.  That means the total poll points with 9 voters should be 324.

The current poll shows only 288 points...............324-288 = 36.    36 is number of available points on a ballot ranking teams 1 thru 8

...meaning, only 8 ballots were counted, which matches the #1 votes total.


Why?  I don't know........and this is a pure mathematical guess.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on November 06, 2009, 11:26:23 AM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on November 05, 2009, 06:07:37 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on November 05, 2009, 04:28:43 PM
MIAA Coaches Poll:
1. Hope (6) 8
2. Calvin (2) 13
3. Saint Mary's 22
4. Albion 29
5. Trine 30
6. Adrian 38
7. Olivet 46
8. Alma 49
9. Kalamazoo 53

The point totals are confusing me though -- only 8 coaches submitted votes?

Hope only received 6 #1 votes.  Assuming the rest were #2 votes, wouldn't their point total be 12?  (Six first place votes: 6x1, plus three second place: 3x2.)  Does this mean only 7 coaches submitted votes?  But Calvin received 2 first place votes, so the total number of frist place votes cast equals 8.   ??? ??? ???

'Splain, Lucy, 'splain!!

Here's a thought:  1 coach's votes were not in on time, and coaches could not vote for their own team:

Hope:  1,1,1,1,1,1,2
Calvin:  1,1,2,2,2,2,3
St Mary's:  2,2,3,3,4,4,4
Albion: 
Trine: 
Adrian: 
Olivet: 
Alma: 
Kzoo: 

That's a start, maybe someone else can fill in the rest.   ::)

You don't vote for yourself so that means each team should have received 8 total votes. With your calculations it appears that each team only received 7 votes (like the men's poll) which would suggest that only 8 ballots were submitted.

I think sac's math confirms that 8 ballots were counted. Nice work everyone!

I wonder what was/is the deal with this?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 06, 2009, 05:18:57 PM
Hope's Carrie Snikkers named a D3hoops.com pre-season all-american.

http://www.d3hoops.com/all-american/womenpreseason10.htm
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on November 17, 2009, 06:23:49 PM
The Dutch are off to a great start 25-8

Starting point guard is a freshman Ellis

Carrie sounds dominating, good to see her off to a great start. 

Kutney picked up 2 quick fouls which has been her weakness in the past.  Hopefully she can cut down on those because they need her size and experience available the entire game.

Freshman Kussmaul is the fourth post, and with Kutney's fouls we may see who the 5th post is in the firt half.

Both Snikkers and Bruinsma have 2 threes already, so a different look with that post combination.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on November 17, 2009, 07:48:42 PM
I know they're young and its the first game, but 35 turnovers?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on November 17, 2009, 09:03:35 PM
The knights had their opening game today against Cornerstone, who were 23-8 last year and have played 3 games already this year. I wasn't expecting a lot -- key players have graduated and there are 6 freshmen on the varsity team.

However, after a rocky first couple of minutes and some first-game defensive lapses and missed rebounds, Calvin ended up winning 69-50.

The big story was 6'2" freshman center Verkaik, who scored 21 points on 9/10 shooting and pulled down 10 rebounds. That's pretty amazing for a first college game -- she's apparently the real deal.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 17, 2009, 09:21:38 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on November 17, 2009, 09:03:35 PM
The knights had their opening game today against Cornerstone, who were 23-8 last year and have played 3 games already this year. I wasn't expecting a lot -- key players have graduated and there are 6 freshmen on the varsity team.

However, after a rocky first couple of minutes and some first-game defensive lapses and missed rebounds, Calvin ended up winning 69-50.

The big story was 6'2" freshman center Verkaik, who scored 21 points on 9/10 shooting and pulled down 10 rebounds. That's pretty amazing for a first college game -- she's apparently the real deal.

Wow!  That IS a great first game.  I can hardly wait to see a match up against Snikkers.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on November 17, 2009, 10:12:05 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on November 17, 2009, 07:48:42 PM
I know they're young and its the first game, but 35 turnovers?

I'm assuming Morehouse is worried--I would be. Madonna isn't exactly a powerhouse program and if they can force that many mistakes, the Hope women aren't going to cruise to a championship this year like they did the last two.

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 17, 2009, 09:21:38 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on November 17, 2009, 09:03:35 PM
The knights had their opening game today against Cornerstone, who were 23-8 last year and have played 3 games already this year. I wasn't expecting a lot -- key players have graduated and there are 6 freshmen on the varsity team.

However, after a rocky first couple of minutes and some first-game defensive lapses and missed rebounds, Calvin ended up winning 69-50.

The big story was 6'2" freshman center Verkaik, who scored 21 points on 9/10 shooting and pulled down 10 rebounds. That's pretty amazing for a first college game -- she's apparently the real deal.

Wow!  That IS a great first game.  I can hardly wait to see a match up against Snikkers.

I saw Carissa Verkaik play several times in high school, including four games against Snikkers. Carrie was two grades ahead, far more experienced, on a much better team, and a better overall athlete than Carissa and yet Verkaik managed to put up decent numbers and didn't play like she was intimidated. Snikkers is a far more elegant athlete than Verkaik whose awkwardness initially made me underrate her abilities on the court. But over a four year career Carissa improved every year, became the second best shot blocker is Michigan girls history (behind MSU's Alyssa DeHaan), and consistently scored in double figures. Verkaik is a very effective player--especially on defense--who seemed to make her team much better than her individual skills might lead you to believe. The Calvin/Hope women's mathchups are those fans should take the time to attend this year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on November 17, 2009, 10:50:58 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on November 17, 2009, 07:48:42 PM
I know they're young and its the first game, but 35 turnovers?

As a partial explanation, the starters only played a total of 95 minutes (19 avg. per starter), committing 14 of the turnovers.  Snickers only played 17 minutes.  Game was basically over by halftime, with Hope leading 50 - 27.  The lead early in the second half got up to 29 when Brian cleared the bench.  So the 12 point margin of victory is very misleading.

One of the questions going into the season was who would play point.  Sounds like freshman Liz Ellis was very solid at the point in her collegiate debut.

All 16 players got their minutes, so the reserves (including the six freshmen) committed most of those turnovers after the outcome had already been decided.  

Madonna came into this game with two wins, while this was Hope's first game.

Even then, I will admit that 35 is substantial!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on November 20, 2009, 10:26:03 PM
Hope 86 Rochester (MI) 38

Starters only averaged about 16 minutes. One fact, Rochester didn't get their 1st of 2 FG's against the Hope starters until the 8:13 mark left in the game. Hope's defense was especially sharp tonight. Freshman Liz Ellis is the real deal at the point.

A good test against Wittenberg tomorrow, who seemed to have great success from the outside against Robert Morris, final score, 66 - 53.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on November 21, 2009, 07:27:50 AM
they played really good i think witt will pack there def  around carrie
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 21, 2009, 06:06:20 PM
Hope 80 Wittenberg 49

I think Hope only has 3 out of conference in-region games, this was one of them and nice to get that important win.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on November 21, 2009, 08:08:41 PM
Hope 80 Wittenberg 49

Hope starters averaged only 15 minutes of play. To Wittenberg's defense, they were playing without their Conference 1st teamer Sarah Boardman, away for an interview to medical school.

I'm not sure I agree with Wittenberg's 1st half plan of trying to go inside on Hope. It did create some offensive rebounds for Wittenberg, which they missed and gave Hope many blocked shots and turnovers. Wittenberg didn't score a FG until about 8 minutes into the game. Hope was outrebounded (44-39) but i wouldn't read too much into that.

Good effort from 6' freshman Kussmaul (15 points & leading scorer). In warm-ups last Tuesday, I had noticed she had a nice outside shot beyond the arc and she isn't afraid to mix it up inside.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 22, 2009, 12:47:54 AM
#6 IWU took down #1 WashU Saturday evening.  Will Hope rise to #2, or will IWU jump a whole bunch of teams?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on November 22, 2009, 10:45:09 AM
i dont know hope looked pretty good vs wittt saturday
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on November 23, 2009, 12:24:10 PM
Quote from: jspiii on November 21, 2009, 08:08:41 PM
Hope 80 Wittenberg 49

To Wittenberg's defense, they were playing without their Conference 1st teamer Sarah Boardman, away for an interview to medical school.......Hope was outrebounded (44-39) but i wouldn't read too much into that.

This year most of Hope's post players seem to be more comfortable on the wing where their outside shooting and ball handling skills create some tough match ups for other teams less athletic bigs.

In most games, the Dutch's defense and offensive prowess will easily blow other teams away. 

However, looking ahead, I think Saturday's rebounding stats point to potential trouble against teams like Calvin, probable Christmas break match-up Chicago and maybe St. Mary's.

If you let a team with big, talented post players pull as many offensive rebounds as Wittenberg did (even without last year's leading rebounder Boardman available) the games could become a lot closer.  A couple of Wittenberg's inside players were, how shall I put it, vertically challenged and it was farily easy for the Dutch to recover by blocking their put backs.

I am pretty sure crashing the boards hard and grabbing more rebounds is a focus in practice and some of the younger players will get better quickly.

If the Dutch can maintain a positve rebounding margin to go along with their disruptive defense and ability to score from anyplace, anytime this year's edition looks to be comparable to any of the previous four editions.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on November 24, 2009, 08:24:45 AM

Scoring  Rebounds  FG%   Blocks   Min
Snikkers      12.7   6.3.500  8  17
Verkaik  13.3   8.0.586  5  23
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 24, 2009, 11:03:54 AM
How about these

Turnovers
Snikkers - 5
VerKaik - 7

Steals
Snikkers - 7
VerKaik - 3

Fouls
Snikkers - 5
VerKaik - 9

Yes, at this point of the season, these are as meaningless as the ones DK posted.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: calvinhoops on November 24, 2009, 07:28:45 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on November 17, 2009, 09:03:35 PM
The knights had their opening game today against Cornerstone, who were 23-8 last year and have played 3 games already this year. I wasn't expecting a lot -- key players have graduated and there are 6 freshmen on the varsity team.

However, after a rocky first couple of minutes and some first-game defensive lapses and missed rebounds, Calvin ended up winning 69-50.

The big story was 6'2" freshman center Verkaik, who scored 21 points on 9/10 shooting and pulled down 10 rebounds. That's pretty amazing for a first college game -- she's apparently the real deal.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: calvinhoops on November 24, 2009, 07:34:13 PM
The Calvin team is deep.  4 freshmen play solid minutes.  Verkaik, Hilbrands, Wolfiss and Irwin.  They can play inside and outside.  I think Cornerstone was caught off guard.  They didn't know who the freshmen were and what they could do.  It will be a very interesting year for Calvin as they have great senior leaders, experienced sophomores and from what I can see, a super frosh class.  The only question is how does Ross manage it all and keep everyone sharp.  He has to be 10 deep.  Kids like Carter can't even find playing time.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on November 25, 2009, 12:36:39 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on November 24, 2009, 11:03:54 AM
How about these

Turnovers
Snikkers - 5
VerKaik - 7

Steals
Snikkers - 7
VerKaik - 3

Fouls
Snikkers - 5
VerKaik - 9

Yes, at this point of the season, these are as meaningless as the ones DK posted.

Does anybody with a sweet tooth start to get a little hungry when they read this post?

;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: calvinhoops on November 25, 2009, 03:49:20 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 22, 2009, 12:47:54 AM
#6 IWU took down #1 WashU Saturday evening.  Will Hope rise to #2, or will IWU jump a whole bunch of teams?
When does the new rankings come out?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 25, 2009, 03:58:16 PM
Next d3hoops poll would be next Tuesday.

USA Today poll released yesterday has Hope #1
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: calvinhoops on November 25, 2009, 05:17:37 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on November 25, 2009, 03:58:16 PM
Next d3hoops poll would be next Tuesday.

USA Today poll released yesterday has Hope #1
I can't find that on their website.  The poll is dated Nov. 4 and Hope isn't #1.  What is the link??  Thanks
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 25, 2009, 10:09:04 PM

I haven't found it either, other than to hear from various other sources that the poll was released and Hope was #1.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on November 28, 2009, 04:24:17 PM
Two comfortable wins for the Knights this weekend. Carissa Verkaik chalked up 26 points, 14 rebounds and 4 block in the first game and 23 points, 13 rebounds, and 5 blocks in the second.

The season is young, but she's second in scoring, at 17.8 ppg; second in rebounding, at 10; second in FG%, at .524, and second in blocks, at 2.8/g The leaders in those categories are all different--so if she can keep putting up stats like that she'll be a strong contender for league MVP.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on November 28, 2009, 04:45:43 PM
Neither Calvin nor Hope really has a very challenging schedule this year. Hope has a possible game against #14 Chicago, but that's it for rated teams. Calvin's schedule is almost as easy; they plays #3 Hope, but those are Calvin's only games against opponents that are currently ranked.

If Hope makes a long run into the NCAA tournament again this year, I wonder if the small number of games against top teams will hurt them?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on November 30, 2009, 08:59:48 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on November 28, 2009, 04:45:43 PM
Calvin ... they plays #3 Hope, but those are Calvin's only games against opponents that are currently ranked.

It looks as though Calvin's game against Carthage on Friday will also be a tough one. Carthage (4-0) just beat #14 Chicago at Chicago.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 01, 2009, 01:11:20 PM
http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/

new poll, Hope stays at #3, Calvin joins the fun at #25
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 02, 2009, 09:46:14 PM
The new women's NAIA poll hasn't been released online yet, but I imagine 7-1 Aquinas probably moved up from their #17 pre-season ranking.

Hope 86 Aquinas 53

never close.

Ellis 14, Snikkers 11pts 14 rbs, Kussmaul 11
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on December 02, 2009, 09:55:44 PM
With a 7-1 Aquinas squad at VanAndel I decided to take in some hoops expecting a competitive game for the Lady Dutch. Didn't happen. Hope overwhelmed AQ 86-53 in a game as dominating as the final score indicates. Knowing several of the Saints' players I'm quite surprised how easily Morehouse's squad ran away with this one. AQ is led by Jocelyn Narber, a stout 5'10" Wyoming Park grad who can play any position on the floor, has excellent ball handling skills, a sweet shooting stroke, and is surprisingly light on her feet. Narber did go for 16 and 11 and kept her team in it early, but Hope buried AQ by raining down a hail of threes (or is that hailing down a rain of threes?). It was 54-28 at half and Hope cruised from there. The freshmen Ellis looked terrific scoring 14 on the strength of 4 of 5 from the arc and the team went 10-19 on treys. Snikkers made life miserable for any Saints player who attempted to play the post or enter the lane. While scoring a very quiet 11 points, Carrie was a beast with 14 boards 6 blocks and 3 steals in just 19 minutes of PT. She never even broke a sweat. Too bad for her she can't get in 25-30 per game because her stats would be remarkable.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on December 03, 2009, 12:09:23 PM
After Hope's win over Aquinas described above, the women are now 65-1 at the DeVos Fieldhouse, winning the last 54 games in a row at home.  Only loss was to Calvin in the last minute of a game in 2006.

Aquinas was ranked # 13 in NAIA Division 2 prior to the game.

The men's BB team have lost four games at home since the Fieldhouse opened up in 2005.

Talk about home court advantage!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on December 08, 2009, 01:01:43 AM
Hope's junior center Carrie Snikkers has been named MIAA Player of the Week on the strength of 11 points, 14 rebounds, 6 blocks, and 3 steals in 19 minutes of play against (then NAIA II #13) Aquinas (7-2), featuring 09 NAIA II 3rd team All-American forward Joslyn Narber.

She beat out Calvin's freshman forward Carissa Verkaik, who in 33 minutes one night scored 39 points, grabbed 23 rebounds, and added 5 blocks and 1 steal to lead Calvin to a 81-73 win over a "meh" unranked NAIA II Purdue Calumet featuring...not much to write about.  Verkaik also had 10 points, 5 rebounds, 3 blocks, and no steals in 28 minutes in a loss to DIII Carthage, who remains unbeaten at 6-0.

The honor went to the player who consistently contributes as much as her (very deep) team needs her to, and who has been around the league a few times, for everyone to see firsthand.  Nonetheless, I am really looking forward to seeing these 2 face off on January 19 in Holland.

I have more thoughts on the subject, but I really should have been in bed an hour ago.  Discussion re: this match-up, anyone?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on December 08, 2009, 12:48:19 PM
E.S.  Like you I am looking forward to seeing how Hope and Calvin match up this year.  At this point I doubt the "dream" matchup will live up to expectation.   A very disturbing number for Calvin is the t.o. stat which indicates they have problems handling the ball, and one would expect Hope to really use that to their advantage.  
:)The game I would like to see is the one were Snikkers is forced to play 30+ minutes because she needs to.
After following Calvin, and the MIAA for 40+ years I am not a fan of individual player awards, and non-conference game player of the week is close to the top of the "waste of ink" list imho.  There is no realistic way to compare the performance of the two individuals in the previous week.  Verkaiak had a good performance, but against a weak team.  The same is true for Snikkers as evidenced by the lack of playing time.  Your statment regarding why you thought Snikkers deserved the award really is more relevant to MIAA player of the year than for performance for one week.  
Hope is blessed with many talented players.  
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on December 08, 2009, 01:19:54 PM
Realist-

I too would like to see Hope's starters have to play +/-30 minutes in a game.  I have really enjoyed the level of talent on the Dutch squad the past several years.  But I think Hope's season-ending losses in the quarterfinals the past 2 years are reason enough to wish for greater challenges earlier in the season.

In reagrds to Calvin's high turnovers, that is frustrating for Calvin folks, for sure.  But do you think some of the kinks will be ironed out 6 weeks from now?  This is a young squad with 6 frosh and 3 sophomores.  I'm sure with enogh practices and games before the Hope game, they will be taking better care of the ball.  I doubt we'll see many more 30-turnover games.

As for Snikkers deserving the award this week, my statement was more a guess as to why the voters thought she deserved it.  I thought Verkaik was a lock for the honor.  I tend to agree with you that it makes a better reason to consider someone for a POY award.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on December 08, 2009, 01:45:06 PM
Yes, the Hope team would benefit by being tested greatly several times during the season.  I like blow out wins as a fan, but it does little to build the mental/physical toughnerss that teams need to get to the top.
I would like to believe that Calvin can, and will reduce the turnovers.  My concern is that it points to a flaw in fundamental skills, and a smart opposing coach can press to force the turnovers  My first impressions are that Calvin's frontline can give Hope a heck of a fight, but only if they get the ball on our end of the court.
Perhaps I am becoming more cynical in my old age, but these player awards seem to be ocassions for the parties giving them out to make various statements.  The MIAA in recent past seems to be worried about parity, and political correctness.  The tendency is not to give the award to one person week after week, and it seems they really strive to make sure a player from each team gets it at least once a season.
To my way of thinking if Snikkers has the stats for a week give her the award.  If she gets it 10 times in the season fine by me.  Same for any other player that has a great week, and great weeks back to back.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on December 08, 2009, 01:50:34 PM
Quote from: realist on December 08, 2009, 12:48:19 PM
 
The game I would like to see is the one were Snikkers is forced to play 30+ minutes because she needs to.


So would Snikkers. I talked to Carrie last week and tried (and failed) to successfully trash talk with her. I told her that she was going down to the Knights this year and that Verkaik was going to eat her lunch. We both had a good laugh. Carrie correctly pointed out that Carissa was getting substantially more PT to build her stat line. Carrie clearly relishes the opportunity to show everyone who's boss, as she did when they competed against one another in high school.

Carrie is more athletic than Carissa but things have changed a bit since they last played against one another. There is less difference between a college freshmen and a college junior than there is between a high school freshmen and junior. While Carrie is more athletic, Carissa is a real force on defense, runs the floor well, and is a consistent shooter despite her rather ungainly looking style.


Quote from: Erm Schmigget on December 08, 2009, 01:19:54 PM

In reagrds to Calvin's high turnovers, that is frustrating for Calvin folks, for sure.  But do you think some of the kinks will be ironed out 6 weeks from now?  This is a young squad with 6 frosh and 3 sophomores.  I'm sure with enogh practices and games before the Hope game, they will be taking better care of the ball.  I doubt we'll see many more 30-turnover games.


High numbers of TO's in early season women's games are not unusual. Hope hammered Madonna this year while commiting 35 turnovers, 20 of them in the first half. Also, Calvin's Emily Ottenhoff, a point guard, only recently began playing for John Ross, after concluding her soccer season with a trip to a national quaterfinal game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 08, 2009, 06:51:44 PM
If Hope (or Calvin, for that matter) really wants to upgrade their schedule, try calling Bloomington!  (Having already faced D1 DePaul in an exhibition, plus then #1 WashU, then #15 UWSP, and then #22 [now #21; they rose a spot by losing to IWU!] UChicago, I don't think Mia Smith would duck a challenge!)  The only fly in the ointment is that I think it is a few too many miles to be in-region.

I've been eagerly awaiting a FF matchup of IWU and Hope for two years now, but we fell just short both years (and Hope was also one short last year); maybe this year (in Bloomington, instead of Holland ;)).  The face-to-face matchup I most await is Snikkers vs. Solari (but this is Christina's last year, so let's get it done NOW).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on December 08, 2009, 07:04:21 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on December 08, 2009, 01:01:43 AM
The honor went to the player who consistently contributes as much as her (very deep) team needs her to, and who has been around the league a few times, for everyone to see firsthand. 

I hope you're not suggesting that the POW should be awarded according to reputation, familiarity, or how one thinks the player would do if given more playing time--but I don't think it is in fact awarded that way. If anything, the POW awards seems to be spread around, among different players and different teams.

I did find a way to check out big point/rebound performances on the ncaa.org stats page, but stats are only available for division I so far, so that's no direct help. However, among DI women, there were about 4 instances of a player scoring more points in a game and a couple with a better rebound total. However, none was better at both. The situation among DI men was similar.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on December 08, 2009, 11:56:37 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on December 08, 2009, 07:04:21 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on December 08, 2009, 01:01:43 AM
The honor went to the player who consistently contributes as much as her (very deep) team needs her to, and who has been around the league a few times, for everyone to see firsthand. 

I hope you're not suggesting that the POW should be awarded according to reputation, familiarity, or how one thinks the player would do if given more playing time--but I don't think it is in fact awarded that way. If anything, the POW awards seems to be spread around, among different players and different teams.


Nope.  I'm only saying that may have been one approach voters took this time around.  Not to take anything away from Carrie's great game last Tuesday, but Verkaik's numbers against Purdue Calumet were more than twice what most players will get as a career best.  I don't really put much thought into the player of the week honors until they are announced, and then only to read a little about a quality effort, but I was surprised when I saw that someone else was named.

As for being spread around...  Most years, it seems that way.  This year it's been Carrie, Carissa, Carrie.  Next week Carissa?   ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on December 09, 2009, 11:01:59 AM
Calvin has averaged 19 T.O's per game this year.  A quick check shows they averaged 20 T.O.'s per game last year in a 16-10 season.
Unless the T.O's per game come down markedly I think it spells trouble for Calvin once MIAA play starts.
Emily O has played in 5 games, and has averaged 21 minutes per game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on December 09, 2009, 12:53:28 PM
Quote from: realist on December 09, 2009, 11:01:59 AM
Calvin has averaged 19 T.O's per game this year.  A quick check shows they averaged 20 T.O.'s per game last year in a 16-10 season.
Unless the T.O's per game come down markedly I think it spells trouble for Calvin once MIAA play starts.
Emily O has played in 5 games, and has averaged 21 minutes per game.

Calvin's 19 TOs per game is second best in the league; Hope is averaging 21.8. I don't think that's cause for too much concern, especially given the number of PT minutes going to freshmen.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on December 09, 2009, 01:25:47 PM
Calvin's 19 TOs per game don't look so bad next to Albion's 19.3 and Hope's 21.8.  I can't say much about Calvin's or Albion's, but I know that several of Hope's this year have come from long passes on fast breaks going too long.  Also, the opponent's TOs per game look like this: Calvin 18.6, Albion 23.3, Hope 30.8.  I think I would be more concerned with the negative TO margin, looking at Calvin's numbers.

Being agressive with the ball will cause some TOs, but it can also set up more scoring opportunities.  In Hope's case they are also aggressive going after the ball on defense, and that has produced their high positive TO margin.  It can also mean more fouls, but with Coach Mo's system, they spread the fouls around to more players, so they can usually afford more.  (Their FTs-made margin is -4.2, while Calvin's is even.)  Also, Hope's assist/TO ratio is at 0.9, while Calvin and Albion are both at 0.6.

I wouldn't be too worried about Calvin's TOs per game since it compares well with other conference contenders.  It's the TO margin that would concern me more.

But then, the season is still so young...   :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 09, 2009, 05:05:23 PM
I would bet Hope has more possesions per game, in other words more opportunities to make turnovers.



All 3 women's games have been postponed due to weather.  MIAA.org has the makeup dates
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on December 11, 2009, 08:13:12 AM
Quote from: sac on December 09, 2009, 05:05:23 PM
I would bet Hope has more possesions per game, in other words more opportunities to make turnovers.

I'm trying to decide if this makes sense, and I'm still unconvinced.

Presumably opportunities for turnovers depend more on how much time you have the ball, not how many possessions you have. Two teams that play fast could each have many more possessions but an equal amount of time (and ball-handling) to make turnover opportunities.

On the other hand, if Hope plays more of an uptempo game than their opponents, then Hope would have less time of possession, hence less opportunity for turnovers.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 11, 2009, 08:51:54 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on December 11, 2009, 08:13:12 AM
Quote from: sac on December 09, 2009, 05:05:23 PM
I would bet Hope has more possesions per game, in other words more opportunities to make turnovers.

I'm trying to decide if this makes sense, and I'm still unconvinced.

Presumably opportunities for turnovers depend more on how much time you have the ball, not how many possessions you have. Two teams that play fast could each have many more possessions but an equal amount of time (and ball-handling) to make turnover opportunities.

On the other hand, if Hope plays more of an uptempo game than their opponents, then Hope would have less time of possession, hence less opportunity for turnovers.

Couple of points - first I don't think your presumption is necessarily correct.  Longer possessions are also more likely to be a set offensive play, short possessions (time wise) occur on fast breaks or when you are pushing the ball up the floor.  These are more likely to lead to turnovers due to the very nature of the play.

Secondly, I have a spreadsheet that is used to calculate Team Efficiency (it's a well known method for calculating this - not my invention).  Anyway, part of it calculates the number of possessions a team has had (based on a formula that uses FG attempts, Off Reb, Turnovers, and FT attempts).  Using that formula:

Calvin is averaging 71.8 possessions per game. 
Hope is averaging 81.5 possessions per game. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: beltsh97 on December 11, 2009, 09:20:07 AM
Flying Dutch, any way you could show how that is calculated? I would like to use that for my own team. Thanks
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on December 11, 2009, 09:43:50 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on December 11, 2009, 08:13:12 AM
Quote from: sac on December 09, 2009, 05:05:23 PM
I would bet Hope has more possesions per game, in other words more opportunities to make turnovers.

I'm trying to decide if this makes sense, and I'm still unconvinced.

Presumably opportunities for turnovers depend more on how much time you have the ball, not how many possessions you have. Two teams that play fast could each have many more possessions but an equal amount of time (and ball-handling) to make turnover opportunities.

On the other hand, if Hope plays more of an uptempo game than their opponents, then Hope would have less time of possession, hence less opportunity for turnovers.



Since an uptempo game leads to more total possessions, sac's comment seems to presuppose that uptempo basketball leads to a greater likelihood of turnovers (per possession) than does a more deliberate style. My intuition tells me that's probably correct but I'm unaware of any research to support this conclusion. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on December 11, 2009, 10:46:37 AM
Quote from: oldknight on December 11, 2009, 09:43:50 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on December 11, 2009, 08:13:12 AM
Quote from: sac on December 09, 2009, 05:05:23 PM
I would bet Hope has more possesions per game, in other words more opportunities to make turnovers.

I'm trying to decide if this makes sense, and I'm still unconvinced.

Presumably opportunities for turnovers depend more on how much time you have the ball, not how many possessions you have. Two teams that play fast could each have many more possessions but an equal amount of time (and ball-handling) to make turnover opportunities.

On the other hand, if Hope plays more of an uptempo game than their opponents, then Hope would have less time of possession, hence less opportunity for turnovers.



Since an uptempo game leads to more total possessions, sac's comment seems to presuppose that uptempo basketball leads to a greater likelihood of turnovers (per possession) than does a more deliberate style. My intuition tells me that's probably correct but I'm unaware of any research to support this conclusion. 

Ah, a basketball liberal, a strict constructionist only when it comes to law and places of residence?

Sac said "more possessions," hence "more opportunities to make turnovers" -- not faster play, hence...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on December 11, 2009, 11:31:10 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on December 11, 2009, 10:46:37 AM
Quote from: oldknight on December 11, 2009, 09:43:50 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on December 11, 2009, 08:13:12 AM
Quote from: sac on December 09, 2009, 05:05:23 PM
I would bet Hope has more possesions per game, in other words more opportunities to make turnovers.

I'm trying to decide if this makes sense, and I'm still unconvinced.

Presumably opportunities for turnovers depend more on how much time you have the ball, not how many possessions you have. Two teams that play fast could each have many more possessions but an equal amount of time (and ball-handling) to make turnover opportunities.

On the other hand, if Hope plays more of an uptempo game than their opponents, then Hope would have less time of possession, hence less opportunity for turnovers.



Since an uptempo game leads to more total possessions, sac's comment seems to presuppose that uptempo basketball leads to a greater likelihood of turnovers (per possession) than does a more deliberate style. My intuition tells me that's probably correct but I'm unaware of any research to support this conclusion. 

Ah, a basketball liberal, a strict constructionist only when it comes to law and places of residence?

Sac said "more possessions," hence "more opportunities to make turnovers" -- not faster play, hence...


That's good. That's very good.

Sac's comments were somewhat ambigous and left a lot to interpretation, thereby requiring the implementaion of additional rules of statutory interpretation. The statement "more possessions per game" followed by the conclusion "more opportunities to make turnovers" is a riddle than cannot be solved solely by using the "plain meaning" rules of strict constructionism. This is why I used the qualifying term "presuppose."To draw an analogy from a former Secretary of Defense in a different context, "You go to war with the army you have, not the one you wish you had." Maybe I should have been clearer myself by writing "seems to presuppose." Good grief, what's this board coming to anyway? You've practically gotta be a lawyer to express yourself these days.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 11, 2009, 12:03:49 PM
Quote from: beltsh97 on December 11, 2009, 09:20:07 AM
Flying Dutch, any way you could show how that is calculated? I would like to use that for my own team. Thanks

Sure - the part of the Efficiency calculation used to calculate possessions is:

0.96 * (FGA - OR + TO + (0.475 * FTA))

where
FGA = Field Goals Attempted
OR = Offensive Rebounds
TO = Turnovers
FTA = Free Throw Attempts

For my comparison, I took the result and divided by the number of games played to achieve a per game average.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: beltsh97 on December 11, 2009, 12:09:27 PM
Thanks
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 11, 2009, 12:13:07 PM
Being nothing close to a lawyer - let me just add a common sense comment   ;D

Seems to me that this whole thing could be summed up by looking at what percentage of a teams possessions end in turnovers.

Calvin - 26.46%
Hope - 26.75%

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 11, 2009, 12:51:24 PM
http://ebastats.com/

most of my knowledge of basketball stat formulas comes from this site, haven't been there in a long time and don't remember how usefull it is.  I think they removed their formulas a long time ago.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on December 11, 2009, 01:04:03 PM
Quote from: oldknight on December 11, 2009, 11:31:10 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on December 11, 2009, 10:46:37 AM
Quote from: oldknight on December 11, 2009, 09:43:50 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on December 11, 2009, 08:13:12 AM
Quote from: sac on December 09, 2009, 05:05:23 PM
I would bet Hope has more possesions per game, in other words more opportunities to make turnovers.

I'm trying to decide if this makes sense, and I'm still unconvinced.

Presumably opportunities for turnovers depend more on how much time you have the ball, not how many possessions you have. Two teams that play fast could each have many more possessions but an equal amount of time (and ball-handling) to make turnover opportunities.

On the other hand, if Hope plays more of an uptempo game than their opponents, then Hope would have less time of possession, hence less opportunity for turnovers.



Since an uptempo game leads to more total possessions, sac's comment seems to presuppose that uptempo basketball leads to a greater likelihood of turnovers (per possession) than does a more deliberate style. My intuition tells me that's probably correct but I'm unaware of any research to support this conclusion. 

Ah, a basketball liberal, a strict constructionist only when it comes to law and places of residence?

Sac said "more possessions," hence "more opportunities to make turnovers" -- not faster play, hence...


That's good. That's very good.

Sac's comments were somewhat ambigous and left a lot to interpretation, thereby requiring the implementaion of additional rules of statutory interpretation. The statement "more possessions per game" followed by the conclusion "more opportunities to make turnovers" is a riddle than cannot be solved solely by using the "plain meaning" rules of strict constructionism. This is why I used the qualifying term "presuppose."To draw an analogy from a former Secretary of Defense in a different context, "You go to war with the army you have, not the one you wish you had." Maybe I should have been clearer myself by writing "seems to presuppose." Good grief, what's this board coming to anyway? You've practically gotta be a lawyer to express yourself these days.

:D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on December 11, 2009, 01:11:02 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on December 11, 2009, 12:13:07 PM
Being nothing close to a lawyer - let me just add a common sense comment   ;D

Seems to me that this whole thing could be summed up by looking at what percentage of a teams possessions end in turnovers.

Calvin - 26.46%
Hope - 26.75%

Hmmm, very close. That's interesting.

Now, is it possible to compute turnovers per minute of possession?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 11, 2009, 01:29:04 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on December 11, 2009, 01:11:02 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on December 11, 2009, 12:13:07 PM
Being nothing close to a lawyer - let me just add a common sense comment   ;D

Seems to me that this whole thing could be summed up by looking at what percentage of a teams possessions end in turnovers.

Calvin - 26.46%
Hope - 26.75%

Hmmm, very close. That's interesting.

Now, is it possible to compute turnovers per minute of possession?


not likely

Also just because you are getting more possessions per game doesn't necessarily mean you are playing at a faster pace.  You may just be shooting earlier more frequently in the shot clock sequence or you're forcing the other team to turn the ball over more frequently.

FWIW, I do believe the Hope women push the ball up court faster and with more frequency than the average D3 womens team.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 11, 2009, 02:51:52 PM
So for the first time (I think) Hope will be opening MIAA play with back to back conference games.  Tonight at Trine (the twice postponed game in Angola) followed by a home game tomorrow night against Olivet.  Hope should win both of these games, but I'm sure back to back adds a little extra work for the Dutch.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on December 11, 2009, 07:26:40 PM
The Knights won a hard-fought 64-58 victory against St Mary's, who defeated Calvin three times last year. The game was close until about half way through the second half, when Calvin went on a 10-0 run and started to take control. Calvin's lead was as much as 15 with 1:42 left, and then St Mary's made a run. The got a couple of steals, a couple of treys, and made the game interesting at the end.

Carissa had a double-double, with 15 points and 20 rebounds. In fact, she almost had a rare triple double involving blocks, as she also stuffed 9 shots. St Marys played a physical, aggressive game and Calvin had a little trouble getting the ball in to Carissa -- she took only 9 shots. Hence the "small" number of points.

In fact, St Mary's has their own answer to Elizabeth Lambert, who decked a Knight with an elbow to the head so hard that she was unable to hear out of that ear for a while. Later, this bell-ringing Belle decked another Calvin player with a similar elbow to the head.

Calvin turned the ball over 32 times to St Mary's 19, but it didn't look as bad as it sounds. Several of Calvin's turnovers were long lead passes, passes into a crowd, etc -- aggressive play that they could tone down if they wanted to.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on December 14, 2009, 07:53:31 PM
I've been quite impressed by Carissa Verkaik's stat lines, so I did some number crunching against Carrie based off minutes played.  The results:

PTS per min
Carrie-0.695
Carissa-0.674

REB per min
Carrie-0.414
Carissa-0.442

AST per min
Carrie-0.023
Carissa-0.058

STL per min
Carrie-0.094
Carissa-0.021

BLK per min
Carrie-0.203
Carissa-0.140

TO per min
Carrie-0.094
Carissa-0.124

FOUL per min
Carrie-0.078
Carissa-0.087

Extrapolated to 30 minutes played in a game:
Name-PTS, REB, AST, STL, BLK, TO, FOUL
Carrie-20.9, 12.4, 0.7, 2.81, 6.09, 2.81, 2.34
Carissa-20.2, 13.3, 1.74, 0.62, 4.21, 3.72, 2.6

Pretty even I'd say.  Maybe a slight edge to Carrie?  If you sum the positives and subtract the negatives you get 37 for Carrie and 33 for Carissa.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on December 15, 2009, 06:06:30 AM
Quote from: scottiedawg on December 14, 2009, 07:53:31 PM
Pretty even I'd say.  Maybe a slight edge to Carrie?  If you sum the positives and subtract the negatives you get 37 for Carrie and 33 for Carissa.

Give Carissa some time to adjust to college ball. She's only played 10 games so far.  ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 15, 2009, 09:02:25 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on December 15, 2009, 06:06:30 AM
Quote from: scottiedawg on December 14, 2009, 07:53:31 PM
Pretty even I'd say.  Maybe a slight edge to Carrie?  If you sum the positives and subtract the negatives you get 37 for Carrie and 33 for Carissa.

Give Carissa some time to adjust to college ball. She's only played 10 games so far.  ;)


January 19 can't come soon enough
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on December 15, 2009, 09:59:38 AM
I am also looking forward to the Hope Calvin matchup in January.  I expect it to be a great game.

However, I think we should be cautious about projecting numbers based on stats achieved so far this season.  If you recall last year's final match between these two was a real barn burner.  The Knights probably played their best game of the season, Harris had recently returned from injury with some big games and Hope's post players had been dominant most of the season.  I expected the game to be one or lost in the post.

As it turned out the post players (Snikkers, Knox, Bruinsma for Hope vs. VanEck and Harris for Calvin) all had fine games, but for the most part held each other below their season averages. Snikkers / Knox did not generally face other posts with the shooting and ball handling skills of the Knight's duo, but VanEck and Harris did not usually face big players with the size, mobility and skills of the Dutch posts.

As I recall Cowen was the star for the Dutch, and Brummel and several other perimeter players kept the Knights in the game.

And so it may play out this time....basketball is a team game and the "supporting cast" are never more important than when each team's stars are matched up head to head.

It is too bad so many MIAA teams are so weak that the top teams face only a handful of challenging matchups each season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 15, 2009, 10:08:14 AM
WWWRHH - Nicely said, and I agree.  Hopefully Hope will have a few challenging games yet this month.  This weekend they have a potential Saturday matchup with #21 Chicago.  Then on the 28th, they will face #22 Carthage in Atlanta. The following day, a possible game with Oglethorpe. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on December 15, 2009, 12:27:28 PM
I would not be so quick to dismiss several of the other MIAA teams.  Do they equal Calvin or Hope on talent perhaps not, but they are more than capable of taking either team to the wire should circumstances play to their advantage.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 15, 2009, 01:20:54 PM
Depends on what you call being taken to the wire.........last year Hope beat every MIAA opponent by double-digits except 1......the previously mentioned Hope/Calvin game to finish the regular season.


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on December 15, 2009, 01:43:27 PM
Quote from: realist on December 15, 2009, 12:27:28 PM
I would not be so quick to dismiss several of the other MIAA teams.  Do they equal Calvin or Hope on talent perhaps not, but they are more than capable of taking either team to the wire should circumstances play to their advantage.

Being taken to the wire under the right circumstances is a lot different than being challenged most of the time.  Actually the best circumstances most teams in the conference can wish for is to catch the Dutch over confident and bored.

The last three years it has been difficult for Morehouse to put his starters on the floor a reasonable number of minutes.  Where else would a talent like Snikkers struggle to get twenty minutes a game.

Overall this is not a good situation.   It does not prepare the best teams for the challenge of tougher non-conference opponents (like those coming up) and it makes it very difficult for the MIAA to place two teams in the tournament due to strength of schedule concerns.
 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on December 15, 2009, 02:26:55 PM
Other than Calvin, I don't believe there is a team in the MIAA that has a realistic chance of keeping their game close with Hope this season, much less beating them. The conference is simply not competitive once you get past the first two teams. Last year's finale at VanNoord was as exciting as any hoops game I watched last season, at any level of competition. It would be nice to see the Lady Knights duplicate the effort this year, absent the loss.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on December 15, 2009, 03:28:19 PM
oldknight I have to agree with most of your comment.  Last year's final was exciting....and not just because it was close.  The game was generally well played with great intensity by both teams and there were some very interesting matchups between good competitors with skill sets that took players out of their comfort zone (for instance I am sure Van Eck and Harris forced Knox and Snikkers to play defense farther away from the basket than either would have preferred).  In hindsight it was a lot of fun....

However, while I can intellectually grasp the statistical probability that the Lady Knights will someday defeat the Dutch again....I just don't want it to be anytime soon.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on December 15, 2009, 04:04:06 PM
Quote from: WWWRHH on December 15, 2009, 03:28:19 PM
However, while I can intellectually grasp the statistical probability that the Lady Knights will someday defeat the Dutch again....I just don't want it to be anytime soon.

At a recent interview, coach Ross said that he hasn't had quite the point production out of the guards yet that he was hoping for. And, a quick check of the stats shows that the team is shooting .316 on 3-point percentage, 4.3 per game, compared to .334 (6.4 per game) last year. In fact, in Calvin's loss to Carthage, they shot just .217 (5/23) 3-pointers.

I think that for Calvin to be a truly outstanding team they are going to need both a solid post game (which they have) and a dangerous perimeter game (which they have the potential for, but which hasn't always been there). If the guards play well in the Hope game they might be able to give Hope a run for their money.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on December 15, 2009, 04:09:55 PM
Going to the wire to me means being in a position in the last 30 seconds or less to win the game.  Granted the odds of this happening to Hope are probably less than it happening to Calvin, but in neither case would I say it couldn't happen.  I've seen too many key players get in foul trouble or get hurt etc. to rule out the possibility of an upset.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on December 18, 2009, 12:57:22 PM
The NCAA stats page has been updated for DIII. Some individuals and teams are making a good showing in DIII:

Kaplan (Kalamazoo): #18 in treys/game (3)
Shaw (Albion): #7 in steals/game, 4.9
Snikkers (Hope): #7 in blocked shots per game, 3.7
Van Eck (Calvin): #29 in FT%, 91.4
Verkaik (Calvin): #6 in blocked shots per game, 3.8; #22 in rebounds/game, 11.9
Wade (St Mary's): #19 in assists per game (5.6); #28 in steals per game (3.9)

Also some notable individual performances:
Senf (Trine): steals in a game, #9 (9)
Verkaik (Calvin): Rebounds in a game, #3 (23)
Verkaik (Calvin): blocked shots in a game, #2 (9)
Verkaik (Calvin): points in a game (not listed, but her 39-point game looks like it should be #1)

Hope is #1 in shots blocked per game, with 8
Calvin is #9, with 6.1

St Mary's is #6 in steals/game (17), #9 in turnover margin (+8.9)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 18, 2009, 01:20:24 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on December 18, 2009, 12:57:22 PM
Hope is #1 in shots blocked per game, with 8
Calvin is #9, with 6.1

St Mary's is #6 in steals/game (17), #9 in turnover margin (+8.9)


Hope is also....

#7 in scoring offense (79.3)
#3 in scoring margin (28.4)
#2 in FG% defense (28.2)
#1 in Win % (100)
#5 in steals per game (17.3)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 18, 2009, 11:05:44 PM
The boxscore from Hope's demolition of Finlandia deserves a goodgrief!

http://www.miaa.org/wbb/stats/0910/1218finl.htm

I imagine its a little hard to spot a team a 26 point lead before your first FG.


Santa was there.......
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hope.edu%2Fimg%2F355%2Fwbasketball%2F0809wbbSanta1.jpg&hash=e41da338c3e88674dace563d2f3cd3cbc0c75053)


Hope will play 7-2 #19 Chicago tomorrow, they've both played Olivet........Chicago won by 16, Hope by 29
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on December 18, 2009, 11:07:49 PM
News from the Holiday Tournament at Hope:
   1st game - Chicago, Il University 71  Lake Forest 54
Lake Forest was never really in the game. Chicago was too tall, athletic and well-disciplined. 6'2" starting center with 6 other players 5'11" - 6'1". 44 - 33 rebounding edge and a 43% to 26% FG advantage.
   2nd game - Hope 102 Finlandia 44
Due to the lack of competition, there is no stat that is really meaningful. Only one starter (Bruinsma - 16min) had over 13 min of playing time.
The biggest cheer, besides Olivia Allore hitting a three to go over the century mark, was Findlandia hitting a three to break an opening 26-0 run by Hope to start the game.

Hope should be well rested for the matchup against Chicago at 3pm tomorrow.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on December 19, 2009, 12:15:56 AM
Hope won.  The starters hardly played.  The bench got lots of "experience".

Usually I would be very happy about games like this, but I'm starting to get a bit cynical about this kind of opponent.  I love to see Hope's depth, but it sounds like the girls that got cut this season could easily have beaten this team.  I would rather see Hope play some opponents that challenge them to ask more from their starters and push the next "line"  to the edge of their abilities.

It's novel for a team to blow out their opponent, but it has come to the point, for me, of asking "when's Hope going to play some real teams?"  I'm sorry for sounding all "it's lonely at the top"   ::)  but I'm starting to see why the D3Hoops Top 25 voters have held Hope at #3 this season.  Where are the quality opponents?  I don't know their exact OWP and OOWP figures, but with just a quick look, you can sum them up with three letters: l...o...w.

I know this is a great team with great players.  We'll have a chance to see them prove it tomorrow night against Chicago.  At 7-2, ranked #19 by D3Hoops (#15 in another poll), and in the top tier of the UAA, Chicago could be their best test yet.  The Maroons' losses are to #24 Carthage by 2 and to #1 IWU by 7.  Those are good teams, and they almost beat them.  Lake Forest was 5-2 before tonight.  Those opponents' winning percentages are...not low.

I wasn't at tonight's last night's game, but I will surely be there this afternoon.  Here's Hopeing the Dutch will play well, but be tested some, and come out victorious, never mind the 32.1-point average MOV.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on December 19, 2009, 02:04:19 AM
Next Friday and Saturday, Hope travels to Oglethorpe, Ga to play:

  Friday: Carthage, WI Ranked #24, beat Calvin in Kenosha 58-47 on 12/4
  Saturday; Piedmont (2-5) or Oglethorpe (4-3). one ranked opponent, a 82-56 loss at #10 Thomas More

There should be a more accurate picture of Hope's team by the end of this year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on December 19, 2009, 09:28:31 AM
good they need some tough  games 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on December 19, 2009, 05:11:06 PM
It looks as though the knights found their touch against Olivet (1-9), shooting 59% overall and 50% (6/12) from three-point range.

Verkaik had 26 points on 12/13 field goals for a field goal percentage of 92.3%. This ties for second place nationally on shooting percentage (min. 10 made) in a game, based on D-III games through 12/13. Through 3 MIAA games she is shooting 76.4%.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 19, 2009, 09:41:27 PM
Hope beat Chicago 70-51........I'd call that a comfortable win, largest margins came at the end of the game.  Hope led by no less than 8 from 10 minutes remaining in the first half.  Starters played 25, 24, 23, 20, 20

http://www.miaa.org/wbb/stats/0910/1219chic.htm
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dumezrules on December 20, 2009, 09:18:24 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on December 19, 2009, 12:15:56 AM
Hope won.  The starters hardly played.  The bench got lots of "experience".

Usually I would be very happy about games like this, but I'm starting to get a bit cynical about this kind of opponent.  I love to see Hope's depth, but it sounds like the girls that got cut this season could easily have beaten this team.  I would rather see Hope play some opponents that challenge them to ask more from their starters and push the next "line"  to the edge of their abilities.

It's novel for a team to blow out their opponent, but it has come to the point, for me, of asking "when's Hope going to play some real teams?"  I'm sorry for sounding all "it's lonely at the top"   ::)  but I'm starting to see why the D3Hoops Top 25 voters have held Hope at #3 this season.  Where are the quality opponents?  I don't know their exact OWP and OOWP figures, but with just a quick look, you can sum them up with three letters: l...o...w.


No teams around here  will play the Dutch and really they have Div. 1 and 2 caliber players...therefore the only "good" competition would involve GVSU or other GLIAC schools..none of which are dumb enough to play Hope...thus you play out your schedule....

They will be tested by Calvin and St marys...be patient...

I think this is the most talent ever at Hope in womens bball.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on December 21, 2009, 12:22:19 PM
dumezrules:

I agree with you regarding the difficulty the Dutch face in scheduling opponents.  The problem is compounded by the emphasis placed on in region games by the NCAA combined with the geographic isolation of Michigan schools.  Since the 150 mile in region limit is determined by driving distance, schools in the northern Chicago suburbs and the entire state of WI are out of region.  Conference opponent Alma is the only D3 opponent north of Holland that comes to mind and Canada lies to the east.  Many of the comparable northern IN schools are NAIA.  The fact that the MIAA is composed of nine women's teams also reduces the number of non-conference games that can be scheduled. 

I know strength of schedule is an ongoing concern for the coaching staff and they work hard to schedule as many strong opponents as possible.

I also agree that this year's edition is a very strong team.  However, while Snikkers is probably the most talented player to ever play for the Dutch, I have doubts that this is the most talented team.  The 2006 National Champions were blessed with Ebels, Noll and Henderson, all of whom were excellant point guards (although Ebels primarily played the 2 position).  This year's guard corps are certainly not as experienced and probably not as talented as that group.

This is also a weak rebounding team compared to what we have come to expect.  Bruinsma and Kussmaul possess excellant offensive skills - good ball handling, a nice perimeter game and are real threats from the three point line - and are very good defenders.   When pared with Snikkers, those skills create match up nighmares for opposing coaches.

However, Chicago outrebounded the Dutch by a healthy margin and Carrie grabbed almost 30% of the team's boards.  Greene is averaging 2 or more rebunds per game than any of the post players (except Carrie).  Hope was able to overcome the rebounding deficit due to their superior speed, quickness and defense.  I am concerned that if Carrie suffers an injury, gets into foul trouble or has an off night (none of which has happened this year) the lack of a true power forward / center in the mold of Woods, Lange or Knox (all of whom spent the majority of their careers as dependable second unit players) could be a drawback.

I am not trying be overly critical.  Morehouse has proved once again that his system does not rebuild- it just reloads.  However, I'm not yet convinced this team is as broadly talented as other recent rosters, but if key players remain healthy they are once again a threat to go all the way.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on December 21, 2009, 01:47:31 PM
WWWRHH-

A few thoughts regarding rebounding.

I wouldn't go so far as to say they are weak compared to recent teams.  This year's team has 43/game, and the 06 National Champs had 43.8.  Also this year's team is shooting better (45.9% v 43.0%) and scoring more (80.8 v 76.5).  True that Carrie has by far the most on the team, but the other post players are all at or over 3/game in under 18 min each.

At 5-9 I wouldn't call Greene a post player either, but she is tough when she gets near the basket.  And not all of her rebounds come right under the basket, so her 5.4/game in under 19 min has to be considered good rebounding.

I don't think we need to worry about this team's rebounding so much.  They've shown that they can get out-rebounded by 10 and still win by 19.  However, I agree that they shouldn't have been out-rebounded that much in that game.  On the bright side, only 7 turnovers for the whole game.   :o
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on December 21, 2009, 03:26:20 PM
Looking at Hope's team from an opponents viewpoint it is hard to see many flaws or weaknesses that can be exploited to advantage.  Calvin has the ability to give Hope a good run for their money, and Calvin winning at least one game this year wouldn't surprise me, but if that doesn't happen it wouldn't surprise either. I am sure Hope's coaches have reviewed the games they have lost the last few years, and have done everything in their power to make sure they have covered those areas. At this point it would seem that Hope is fairly ranked at #3, and if they do the job at hand they may get their chance to prove they deserve a higher rank. :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on December 21, 2009, 03:39:10 PM
It is hard to make direct comparisons based on statistics, and my concerns regarding rebounding are largely based on the performance against Aquinas, Wittenberg (although the starters played limited mins.) and U of Chicago in which the battle of the boards was lost.  Some of the season stats are suspect due to the games against Rochester, Finlandia and Olivet - teams that are not competitive on any level.  Also remember that the final season stats from the championship season reflect stronger opponents and six tourney games against some very impressive competition.

The championship team had stronger conference opponents and at this point in the season had played the CCIW crossover challenge against Carthage and top ranked Wheaton.  They also faced a tough Franklin team in the Kalamazoo holiday tourney and both Calvin and Albion were very good teams that year.  I think the Dutch benefitted from the stronger schedule and that is what helped them win very close games against DePauw and U of Washington-St. Lousi in the tourney.

No team is perfect and I still think the end-of-season '06 and '08 versions were better than the current '10 team (in some ways last year's team was my favorite, but I think they exceeded expectaions) .  However, this year's team may be the best defensive roster ever assembled and that defense is turning turnovers into points.

Greene is a very good rebounder by any measure, and probably works harder on the boards than anyone on the floor.  She takes great pride in that aspect of her game and I was very impressed with her energy and determination when the Maroons made their run in the second half.  The tips and slaps that prevented Chicago from getting a couple of rebounds and her aggresive help defense did not show in the stats, but I am sure I was not the only one that noticed her efforts. 

I would lke to see Greene's level of agressiveness on the boards from the post players, but like I alluded to in my previous posting, I think the 4's are really primarily 3's at heart and in skill set.  Having big, skilled players that can play away from the basket is a good thing especially with Carrie so dominant in the middle, but yet  it create's a little bit of a nagging concern in the event of  foul trouble etc.

I suppose we should be happy that we are reduced to comparing "our" team to previous one or two loss editions rather than their opponents., but I wish they were being consistently challenged by good teams.  Tougher opponents would better prepare the Dutch for a return to the final four.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on December 21, 2009, 08:13:07 PM
WW et.al  I do not know what more I can tell you my friend.  IMHO this years Calvin team compares favorably with the one that lost two players in 5 minutes to a good Hope team.  No hard feelings.   :)  Frankly, if Hope can pull 2 out of 3 versus Calvin this year they are going to know all they need to know as they advance in the big dance.  My friend, relax, enjoy the ride, and make plans for March.   Once again, imho, the pressure of wanting to win it all on their home court worked against your team the last two years.  You are much bettter off at #3 than #1.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on December 21, 2009, 08:48:25 PM
Quote from: realist on December 21, 2009, 08:13:07 PM
WW et.al  I do not know what more I can tell you my friend.  IMHO this years Calvin team compares favorably with the one that lost two players in 5 minutes to a good Hope team.  No hard feelings.    :) 

Hard for me to believe that you could be blaming those injuries on vicious play by Hope, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.  I was at that game, telling my Dad before any injuries that something like that was going to happen if the refs didn't start calling jump balls quicker.  Lo and behold, 2 Lady Knights left the floor for the season while trying to tie up the ball.  The whistle should have blown sooner, and after that season we now have more jump balls than steals in some games.  But if it saves a knee or 2, it's worth it.  If I seem passionate about this, I am.  I couldn't stand how long the refs were waiting to call a jump ball before, and I'm fine with how quickly they call it now.  It made me sick watching your girls blow their knees while the refs swallowed their whistles.

Rant over.  Sorry 'bout that.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on December 22, 2009, 12:21:56 PM
 :)  Thanks for taking no offense, because none was intended.  I was merely stating a historical fact.  I never have had any animosity towards any of the Hope players involved in the action.  They were just doing what they were trained to do, nothing vicious, and it could have been anyone who got hurt when the play is at that level.  Your point is well made on the need for the refs. to control play. 
FWIW at the time I thought the Hope players felt as bad about what happened to the Calvin players as anyone in the building. :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on December 22, 2009, 01:04:13 PM
That's what I like about your posts, realist.  I think I know where you're coming from and usually it turns out my guess was right.  As much as our Rivalry is a heated and competitive affair, in the midst of such an unfortunate turn of events, I think most of us can put all that aside and be the siblings we really are.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on December 22, 2009, 02:41:16 PM
Quote from: realist on December 21, 2009, 08:13:07 PM
WW et.al  I do not know what more I can tell you my friend.  IMHO this years Calvin team compares favorably with the one that lost two players in 5 minutes to a good Hope team.  No hard feelings.   :)  Frankly, if Hope can pull 2 out of 3 versus Calvin this year they are going to know all they need to know as they advance in the big dance.  My friend, relax, enjoy the ride, and make plans for March.   Once again, imho, the pressure of wanting to win it all on their home court worked against your team the last two years.  You are much bettter off at #3 than #1.

Realist, like Erm I generally appreciate you comments,  however I think in your effort to "keep it real" you may have missed the point of my recent posts - at least I am puzzeled by your reaction to my recent comments.

If you read my posts you will note that I have said very little about Calvin, and when I did it was complimentary.  I have even outlined the scenario that I believe will create a potential problem for the Dutch and feel Calvin is most likely to present the matchups that will create that challenge.

Hope has not played the Knights, they have no common opponents, and the Dutch just cruised past a highly ranked team.  They have not been seriously challenged on a consistent basis during the regular season in two and a half seasons.  It is a waste of time to say more about the Jan 19 game because it has yet to be played and I am not going to engage in trash talk or speculation about the outcome of a game that has all the makings of a barn burner.

If you are absolutely correct in your assessment of the Knights, and I have no reason to argue with you on that point, that does not create the strength of schedule that I think is optimal for post-season preparation. 

However, the facts remain that the MIAA is viewed as a weak conference, playing the conference schedule yields poor strength of schedule rankings for both the Knights and the Dutch and always makes it problematic for both to get into the tourney if they stumble agaist unranked teams.  On many levels it is not good for the conference, nor the Dutch and Knights for the such a great divide to exist between the top two teams and everyone else.  Let's not kid ourselves, the MIAA always has a couple of women's teams that would not fair well against decent high school squads.  With Albion and Olivet rebuilding, the conference may be even weaker than is typical. 

Given that set of facts, I am really puzzled by your reaction to my recent posts.  I thought I was primarily engaged in a discussion with other Hope fans (or perhaps only myself) as to the relative strength of this year's team, vs. the talent of other recent rosters.  Some of my comments could even be taken as mildly critical since I stated that this year's team did not yet measure up to the '06 and '08 editions and I was worried that I would be chastised by other wearers of orange.  Of course, any such discussion is always speculative and may be colored by my fondness of players that I watched for their entire careers and the nostalgia re: past glories which seems to overtake some of us as we grow older.   

If you choose to engage in a similar vein of conversation with other Knight fans you will not receive any complaints from me.  I may throw my two bits in about how effective I thought the Winkle - Harris combination was, lament Harris' lost time to injury,  or state how I think Van Eck is the toughest "little" big player I've had the pleasure of watching.  But I will not disrupt your meandering and tell you to relax.....perhaps it is too bad there aren't more Knight fans active on the boards ......

A final point, the last two years the Dutch lost hard fought games in the elite eight to the eventual champion.   Pressure to make it home for the final four may have played a part in the losses, but there were other factors (not the least of which was tough opponents) that played a role in the disappointments.  That may be a discussion for another day.  In the end, only eight losses, one national championship pl;us two subsequent appearances in the elite eight over a four year period is not a bad record.

Finally I will add that when that unfortunate scramble for the ball occured I was on my feet yelling for the ref to blow the whistle.....of course, my solution to the problem of refs wanting to avoid influencing the game with a possession change is to get rid of the alternate possession rule and go back to jump balls.  I don't think it would slow the game too much and it would be more fair - especially late in the game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on December 22, 2009, 03:19:57 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on December 21, 2009, 01:47:31 PM
WWWRHH-

A few thoughts regarding rebounding.

I wouldn't go so far as to say they are weak compared to recent teams.  This year's team has 43/game, and the 06 National Champs had 43.8.  Also this year's team is shooting better (45.9% v 43.0%) and scoring more (80.8 v 76.5).  True that Carrie has by far the most on the team, but the other post players are all at or over 3/game in under 18 min each.


Since I am making efforts to clarify myself this afternoon let me expand on my thoughts that so far this year's Dutch efforts on the boards are relatively weaker than recent teams. 

The battle of the boards is not determined by the absolute number of rebounds grabbed, but by the rebounding margin.

The rebounding margins have declined in recent years:

2005 -2006   8.4

2006 -2007   9.3

2007-2008  10.7

2008-2009    7.4

2009- 2010   5.0

Still a healthy margin, but relatively narrow compared to some eye-popping margins of previous years.  Of course, it is not often that you have rebounders like Lange, Snikkers, Knox, Greene and  Warsen on the squad (07-08) together.  In 07-08 Snikkers avg. 5.9 per game in 15.5 mpg and Knox had 6.3 in only 13.2 mins. per game.  Last year each averaged over 8 per game in about 21 mins on the floor - it is unusual to have that type of rebounding tandem.

Your points regarding turnovers and shooting percentage do factor into this discussion.  If a team has a positive turnover ratio and higher shooting percentage some opportunities for rebounds are lost - this is especially telling at the defensive end where a team should capture most rebounds. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on December 22, 2009, 03:47:24 PM
I think I got the point of your posts.  You express a genuine concern for what you feel are potential problems or weaknesses that your team may have.  There is no doubt playing against top ranked teams more often is the best way to build your teams ability to play top ranked teams.  To do that one would imagine that Hope would have to be willing to travel to where these teams are located, or perhaps pay for the teams to come to them.  I am sure all coaches, and or schedulers, are caught in that bind of wanting to play higher teams in terms of "strenght" of schedule, but not wanting to do so at the expense of coming away with a L. At what point does the down side risk exceed the potential upside gain?   :)
What would you do if tomorrow it became your job to schedule all of Hope's future non-conference games? ???  
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 22, 2009, 04:39:05 PM
Quote from: WWWRHH on December 22, 2009, 03:19:57 PM
Since I am making efforts to clarify myself this afternoon let me expand on my thoughts that so far this year's Dutch efforts on the boards are relatively weaker than recent teams. 

The battle of the boards is not determined by the absolute number of rebounds grabbed, but by the rebounding margin.

The rebounding margins have declined in recent years:

2005 -2006   8.4

2006 -2007   9.3

2007-2008  10.7

2008-2009    7.4

2009- 2010   5.0

Still a healthy margin, but relatively narrow compared to some eye-popping margins of previous years.  Of course, it is not often that you have rebounders like Lange, Snikkers, Knox, Greene and  Warsen on the squad (07-08) together.  In 07-08 Snikkers avg. 5.9 per game in 15.5 mpg and Knox had 6.3 in only 13.2 mins. per game.  Last year each averaged over 8 per game in about 21 mins on the floor - it is unusual to have that type of rebounding tandem.

Your points regarding turnovers and shooting percentage do factor into this discussion.  If a team has a positive turnover ratio and higher shooting percentage some opportunities for rebounds are lost - this is especially telling at the defensive end where a team should capture most rebounds. 

Let me attempt to look at this from a slightly different angle.  I have for years thought that rebounding statistics and rebounding margin can be very misleading.  Let me explain.  Suppose you play two games, and in each game your opponent takes 60 shots from the floor.  In game 1, the opponent shoots 50%, so there are 30 rebounds up for grabs.  In game 2, the opponent shoots 25%, so now there are 45 rebounds available.  Of course the same is true as your own shooting percentage varies.  These variations can lead to rebounding margins that are meanignless (to a point) Think of the 1985 Villanova championship team.  They had a measly 2 offensive rebounds that game (of course they only missed 5 shots the entire game).

So I have created a formula to calculate rebounding % for both offense and defense using these formulas:

DR % = Defensive Rebounds / (Opponent's missed FGs + opponent's missed FTs)
OR % = Offensive Rebounds / (Team's missed FGs + team's missed FTs)

Based on these formulas, here are the numbers:

Year ---- DR % ---- OR %
05-06 -- 64.7% --- 37.5%
06-07 -- 64.7% --- 38.0%
07-08 -- 63.7% --- 40.1%
08-09 -- 62.5% --- 39.9%
09-10 -- 64.5% --- 33.7%

So while the DR% looks to right on track, the OR% this year needs some work.  Food for thought.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 22, 2009, 05:02:33 PM
Ah, welcome to the dark side of reason and logic through numbers FDF.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on December 22, 2009, 06:02:05 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on December 22, 2009, 04:39:05 PM
So I have created a formula to calculate rebounding % for both offense and defense using these formulas:

nerd   ;) :D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on December 22, 2009, 08:12:53 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on December 22, 2009, 06:02:05 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on December 22, 2009, 04:39:05 PM
So I have created a formula to calculate rebounding % for both offense and defense using these formulas:

nerd   ;) :D

Flying Dutch Fan . . . your logic is compelling.  I love your analysis. 

I also think this Hope starting 5, especially defensively, is the best I've ever seen.  Having the top three post players all be effective 3 point shooters, having two defensively superb wing guards, and having a terrific new point guard (and improved player in the back up role) all bode well.  And the second five seem to be doing better and better as the season progresses.  I love watching this team . . . and their comraderie.

I see that top-ranked Illinois Wesleyan has just pick up a DI transfer, who has entered their program immediately.  No doubt they're dreaming home-court national championship this year.  If it happens, Hope players and fans will have some envy issues to deal with.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 22, 2009, 09:00:09 PM
Quote from: pointlem on December 22, 2009, 08:12:53 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on December 22, 2009, 06:02:05 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on December 22, 2009, 04:39:05 PM
So I have created a formula to calculate rebounding % for both offense and defense using these formulas:

nerd   ;) :D

Flying Dutch Fan . . . your logic is compelling.  I love your analysis.  

I also think this Hope starting 5, especially defensively, is the best I've ever seen.  Having the top three post players all be effective 3 point shooters, having two defensively superb wing guards, and having a terrific new point guard (and improved player in the back up role) all bode well.  And the second five seem to be doing better and better as the season progresses.  I love watching this team . . . and their comraderie.

I see that top-ranked Illinois Wesleyan has just pick up a DI transfer, who has entered their program immediately. No doubt they're dreaming home-court national championship this year.  If it happens, Hope players and fans will have some envy issues to deal with.

You're damn right that that is our dream! ;D

Whether or not we can pull it off remains to be seen.  (I really thought Hope would pull it off, but 'twas not to be. :()

I'm intensely disappointed that IWU fell short of reaching Holland the last two years (I certainly would have been there).  Bloomington is farther away, but I'm there if they are! :D

And I DO want to see a Solari-Snikkers showdown. :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 23, 2009, 09:40:41 AM
Hmm Mr Y - so IWU is trying the old Rowan approach, huh?   ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on December 23, 2009, 11:38:48 AM
Quote from: WWWRHH on December 22, 2009, 02:41:16 PM

Hope has not played the Knights, they have no common opponents,


They do now. Last night the Lady Knights struggled to beat Madonna 56-53, a team Hope trounced by a rather easy 12 points in last month's opener. In Hope's win, the Lady Dutch cruised to a 70-40 lead midway through the second frame before getting outscored 30-12 to make the final score look more respectable. Hope did have a few hiccups in that game committing 35 turnovers, 20 in the first half, but was able to open up a 50-27 lead at the break on the strength of excellent shooting from the arc going 7-11.

In the FWIW Department, I find myself in full agreement with WWWRHH's recent string of posts. Right now I would judge Hope's team to not yet be the equal of the squads of  2 or 3 years ago, and that largely because of the uncertainty in the backcourt. The talent level is every bit the equal of recent years, they just have some things to prove. Players like Boles and Henderson had leadership skills and high basketball IQ's that the current Hope backcourt has not yet displayed. Maybe they will as the season progresses; they just have not consistently done it against quality competition.

Similarly, Calvin has things to prove against good competition.  Calvin may well be able to match Hope this season but I'm concerned about the Lady Knights' perimeter game. Hope appears to be a much better team from the arc than is Calvin and, unlike the Lady Knights, Hope's women force far more turnovers than they commit. As good as Snikkers is, I think how well or poorly the two teams perform in the backcourt may be the deciding factor when they finally meet.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on December 23, 2009, 12:04:09 PM
Quoting Pointlem: "Having the top three post players all be effective 3 point shooters,....."  is there a correlation between a lower OR, and the fact the post players are out past the arc? ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on December 23, 2009, 12:38:45 PM
Quote from: realist on December 23, 2009, 12:04:09 PM
Quoting Pointlem: "Having the top three post players all be effective 3 point shooters,....."  is there a correlation between a lower OR, and the fact the post players are out past the arc? ;)


There must be a formula for that.  FDF?   ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 23, 2009, 03:24:45 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on December 23, 2009, 12:38:45 PM
Quote from: realist on December 23, 2009, 12:04:09 PM
Quoting Pointlem: "Having the top three post players all be effective 3 point shooters,....."  is there a correlation between a lower OR, and the fact the post players are out past the arc? ;)


There must be a formula for that.  FDF?   ;D


Sure, you take the square root of the third derivative of....

ah, who cares - final score is the only statistic that matters
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on December 23, 2009, 06:27:53 PM
Mr. Ypsi,

FDF would tell you that if Hope and IWU stay undefeated, and if the NCAA follows its pattern, IWU may need to come to Hope to play a quarterfinal game. 

You can wish that in such a situation the NCAA will, this season, put the two teams in brackets that culminate in a national championship game. 

If that were to happen, Hope fans will feel some IWU envy.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 23, 2009, 11:58:03 PM
Quote from: pointlem on December 23, 2009, 06:27:53 PM
Mr. Ypsi,

FDF would tell you that if Hope and IWU stay undefeated, and if the NCAA follows its pattern, IWU may need to come to Hope to play a quarterfinal game. 

You can wish that in such a situation the NCAA will, this season, put the two teams in brackets that culminate in a national championship game. 

If that were to happen, Hope fans will feel some IWU envy.

Hope v. George Fox in the Elite 8 was a nasty draw.  While fully expected (and we already beat them on their home floor in the 2nd game of the season), we weren't too happy facing WashU in the Elite 8 either! :(  In a perfect world, I think both those match-ups belonged in Holland, as they were almost certainly the four best teams in the country. 

Alas, you gotta play the hand you're dealt.  Hope to see you in B'town. ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 24, 2009, 08:57:42 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 23, 2009, 11:58:03 PM
Hope v. George Fox in the Elite 8 was a nasty draw. 

As was Hope at Howard Payne in the Elite 8 the previous year.

Hmmm - seems to be some kind of pattern here.    :-\
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on December 24, 2009, 06:07:24 PM
Perhaps Hope should avoid Elite 8 games. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 24, 2009, 06:54:10 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on December 24, 2009, 08:57:42 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 23, 2009, 11:58:03 PM
Hope v. George Fox in the Elite 8 was a nasty draw. 

As was Hope at Howard Payne in the Elite 8 the previous year.

Hmmm - seems to be some kind of pattern here.    :-\

Hope's 2006 run included #3 Washington in the Sweet 16, and #4 DePauw in the quarterfinals.   Hope was ranked #6.

Their 2nd round game was vs #10 Capital, and in the Final Four they beat #2 Scranton and #1 Southern Maine

You can't get a tougher run of games from the Sweet 16 on like Hope did that year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 24, 2009, 09:06:50 PM
Perhaps we can get the NCAA to adopt World Cup rules for the Final Four - host team is automatically included! ;D

(A little late for Hope, I realize, but the Titans would accept! ;))
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 26, 2009, 12:41:40 PM
Quote from: realist on December 24, 2009, 06:07:24 PM
Perhaps Hope should avoid Elite 8 games. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

That strategy has worked well for Calvin     ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on December 26, 2009, 02:25:05 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on December 26, 2009, 12:41:40 PM
Quote from: realist on December 24, 2009, 06:07:24 PM
Perhaps Hope should avoid Elite 8 games. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

That strategy has worked well for Calvin     ;D
My point exactly.   :)  If you want to claim to be the best you have to prove it by beating all challengers on the floor, and Calvin has yet to be able to do that.  IMHO: There is no shame in losing to a better team.   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 26, 2009, 05:53:32 PM
Quote from: realist on December 26, 2009, 02:25:05 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on December 26, 2009, 12:41:40 PM
Quote from: realist on December 24, 2009, 06:07:24 PM
Perhaps Hope should avoid Elite 8 games. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

That strategy has worked well for Calvin     ;D
My point exactly.   :)  If you want to claim to be the best you have to prove it by beating all challengers on the floor, and Calvin has yet to be able to do that.  IMHO: There is no shame in losing to a better team.   

You completely missed the point.  In both situations Hope lost to the eventual national champion - and I agree with you completely there is no shame in losing to a better team.  In both cases, you could even argue that Hope was the best team either of those two teams faced.  My point is that the "seeding" of the tournament played as much of a role in who was playing (in the final 4 the last two years) as the teams did.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on December 26, 2009, 07:40:56 PM
You can argue that Hope was the "best" team the national champion beat if you want.  Would you be any happier today if Hope had lost to them in the national championship game?   :)   Really. would you? ???
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 26, 2009, 08:06:50 PM
Quote from: realist on December 26, 2009, 07:40:56 PM
You can argue that Hope was the "best" team the national champion beat if you want.  Would you be any happier today if Hope had lost to them in the national championship game?   :)   Really. would you? ???


I won't speak for FDF, but I would always be more pleased with finishing #2 than bowing out in the Elite Eight!  While the Titan women haven't yet managed the FF (I guarantee they'll be there the next two years - I just hope it is because they are playing! ;)), I'm extremely proud that the men who made the FF have never lost their final game (1 title, 3 thirds)!  [I'd still be intrigued by a Witt/IWU game in 2006 - Witt finished #2 due to the schedule, since both beat Amherst (narrowly) and both lost to VaWes (narrowly), but we played VaWes first.  Of course, what I'd really wish for is a re-match against VaWes!  I still think we win 6 or 7 out of 10. :(]
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 27, 2009, 08:08:19 AM
Quote from: realist on December 26, 2009, 07:40:56 PM
You can argue that Hope was the "best" team the national champion beat if you want.  Would you be any happier today if Hope had lost to them in the national championship game?   :)   Really. would you? ???
You bet your sweet #$^$%& I would.  And anyone who would say they wouldn't has got to be a liar. 

With that kind of attitude, you could just say - well if we're not going to win it all anyway, just don't bother putting us in the tournament at all, in fact, let's just cancel the entire season and go on a motivational speaking tour.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on December 27, 2009, 08:31:59 AM
it would be really nice if the hope girls come back from atlanta  2-0   next week they just left yesterday
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on December 27, 2009, 06:40:05 PM
Quote from: realist on December 26, 2009, 07:40:56 PM
You can argue that Hope was the "best" team the national champion beat if you want.  Would you be any happier today if Hope had lost to them in the national championship game?   :)   Really. would you? ???


You can argue anything if you want.  You might be looked at as a fool if you choose to argue some things.  But arguing that Hope was the "best" team the eventual national champs beat would be supported by some pretty strong evidence.  The pollsters seem to be pretty believable by most by the end of the year, and they had Hope at #2 the poll prior to Hope's losing to George Fox (and GF at #3).  Only IWU at #1 was believed to be better, and if we stick to what you are suggesting here, GF did not beat IWU.

Now let's discuss what would make a Hope fan happier today.  Would it make us happier to look back on last season and see only one loss, to the St. Mary's Belles (and 3 more wins)?  Obviously.  But let's put it within the framework you propose.  Would Hope fans be any happier today if the team had lost in the national championship game?  I'll answer your question with a question:  Would you be happier if Calvin had had the chance to compete in the tounament?  Should Hope fans be able to find more satisfaction in their team, #2 in the country (#1 in other polls if I remember correctly) before the sweet 16, being able to reach the Final Four before having to face another top 4 team?  Tell me why we shouldn't be happy to at least have the same consideration other levels in the NCAA are afforded.  Make it compelling.  Really.  Could you?

:) ;) :D ;D >:( :( :o 8) ??? ::) :P :-[ :-X :-\ :-* :'(
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on December 28, 2009, 12:13:27 PM
Who wouldn't be happier advancing to the championship game?  Win or lose that is an unbelievable experience.  As far as Calvin goes, the team looks good this year and Ross brought in a very good frosh class it appears.  I think the next 4 years will be very exciting times for Knights fans.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on December 28, 2009, 01:10:15 PM
Good luck with getting the NCAA to change their selection method for D3.  :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on December 28, 2009, 01:24:10 PM
Welcome, C-hoops!  I think you're right to expect some good things from this year's new class.  I for one am looking forward to how they will match up vs. Hope, whom I believe also has a good frosh class.

Hope plays Carthage later today, the one team that has beaten Calvin this year.  Just looking at the stats from Calvin's game, it looks like Carthage has a good inside presence for a team without a whole lot of height, limiting Verkaik to only 10pts on 5-11 shooting.  In fact, as a team, Calvin only shot 32.8%--10 %age points below their season average.  Can anyone offer any insight?  Was it an off shooting night, or is Carthage's defense that good.  Their shooting defense overall is listed at 37.7%, but I haven't looked into their other opponent's averages.  What kind of game should we expect?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on December 28, 2009, 01:25:20 PM
Quote from: realist on December 28, 2009, 01:10:15 PM
Good luck with getting the NCAA to change their selection method for D3.  :)


Not gonna try.  But I don't have to be happy with it as it is now.   ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 28, 2009, 01:40:34 PM
Quote from: realist on December 28, 2009, 01:10:15 PM
Good luck with getting the NCAA to change their selection method for D3.  :)


Such a defeatist attitude  :P
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on December 28, 2009, 03:17:46 PM
Carrie Snikkers is out indefinitely with a foot injury. I wonder if this is related to the foot injury she had during her freshman year.

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/sports/x1689183367/Hope-loses-All-American-forward-to-injury
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on December 28, 2009, 04:00:03 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on December 28, 2009, 01:24:10 PM
Welcome, C-hoops!  I think you're right to expect some good things from this year's new class.  I for one am looking forward to how they will match up vs. Hope, whom I believe also has a good frosh class.

Hope plays Carthage later today, the one team that has beaten Calvin this year.  Just looking at the stats from Calvin's game, it looks like Carthage has a good inside presence for a team without a whole lot of height, limiting Verkaik to only 10pts on 5-11 shooting.  In fact, as a team, Calvin only shot 32.8%--10 %age points below their season average.  Can anyone offer any insight?  Was it an off shooting night, or is Carthage's defense that good.  Their shooting defense overall is listed at 37.7%, but I haven't looked into their other opponent's averages.  What kind of game should we expect?

Jacklin inside had 21 points.  At 6' she handled herself very well, and Calvin did not protect the ball very well.  Just like Carthage's men's team expect them to be aggressive after the ball.  Verkaik had 3 fouls, and sat for some time as I recall.  Carthage had a slight rebound advantage, and got to the ft. line more often making 10-12 versus 4-4.  What to expect?  A very tough game.  Especially with having your big gun in street clothes.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on December 28, 2009, 05:11:37 PM
Quote from: jspiii on December 28, 2009, 03:17:46 PM
Carrie Snikkers is out indefinitely with a foot injury. I wonder if this is related to the foot injury she had during her freshman year.

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/sports/x1689183367/Hope-loses-All-American-forward-to-injury

Speaking of having your big gun out...   :(
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on December 28, 2009, 05:32:04 PM
I still think Hope has enough guns to carry the day. :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on December 28, 2009, 07:19:15 PM
Either this is a really long halftime, or Livestats is AGAIN not working.   >:( :(
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on December 28, 2009, 07:48:51 PM
It started working again, but this may have been a case of "ignorance is bliss".  Hope loses 47-51.  They shot 23.2% (10% from 3...2-20).   ???  Ouch.  Oh well, even the 06 Champs lost one.  Nice to see them keep it close against a ranked team while missing their All-American center.  (Silver lining...silver lining...).  Tomorrow's opponent is not ranked, either way tonight's 2nd game goes.  Time for Hope to pick up their winning ways.   :-\
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 28, 2009, 09:00:09 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on December 28, 2009, 07:48:51 PM
It started working again, but this may have been a case of "ignorance is bliss".  Hope loses 47-51.  They shot 23.2% (10% from 3...2-20).   ???  Ouch.  Oh well, even the 06 Champs lost one.  Nice to see them keep it close against a ranked team while missing their All-American center.  (Silver lining...silver lining...).  Tomorrow's opponent is not ranked, either way tonight's 2nd game goes.  Time for Hope to pick up their winning ways.   :-\
Gotta hope their shooting woes are related to this being the first game back after a break.  I look for a real bounce back by the Dutch tomorrow
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on December 29, 2009, 12:25:07 AM
Well,  you saw basically what we saw when we played Carthage in their gym.  We lost Verkaik early with foul trouble and had to play without her.  Carthage has 3 DI transfers on their roster (very interesting actually).  They can be beat but you have to shoot better from the outside.  I noticed your freshman was 1-9 I think and that was the diff.  Calvin has a couple of good shooters but they didn't play that much that game and in hindsight might have helped.   Who knows.  Calvin vs Hope should be a classic.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on December 29, 2009, 02:36:20 AM
Hope started off 0 for 17 and surprisingly was down only 5-2. It was not a pretty game from either team.

Hope plays Piedmont (2-6), who lost to Oglethorpe 65-56. Neither of these teams shot very well either, Oglethorpe - 31% to 28.3% for Piedmont.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on December 29, 2009, 07:36:48 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on December 28, 2009, 09:00:09 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on December 28, 2009, 07:48:51 PM
It started working again, but this may have been a case of "ignorance is bliss".  Hope loses 47-51.  They shot 23.2% (10% from 3...2-20).   ???  Ouch.  Oh well, even the 06 Champs lost one.  Nice to see them keep it close against a ranked team while missing their All-American center.  (Silver lining...silver lining...).  Tomorrow's opponent is not ranked, either way tonight's 2nd game goes.  Time for Hope to pick up their winning ways.   :-\
Gotta hope their shooting woes are related to this being the first game back after a break.  I look for a real bounce back by the Dutch tomorrow

This was always going to be a tough win coming off exam week and Christmas break for Hope. ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Wydown Blvd. on December 29, 2009, 11:51:29 AM
Quote from: wiz on December 29, 2009, 07:36:48 AMThis was always going to be a tough win coming off exam week and Christmas break for Hope. ;)

Was that sarcasm?  or a legitimate statement?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 29, 2009, 01:21:58 PM
Quote from: Wydown Blvd. on December 29, 2009, 11:51:29 AM
Quote from: wiz on December 29, 2009, 07:36:48 AMThis was always going to be a tough win coming off exam week and Christmas break for Hope. ;)

Was that sarcasm?  or a legitimate statement?

just a jerk being a jerk
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: MaroonKnighty on December 29, 2009, 01:50:10 PM
Quote from: sac on December 29, 2009, 01:21:58 PM
Quote from: Wydown Blvd. on December 29, 2009, 11:51:29 AM
Quote from: wiz on December 29, 2009, 07:36:48 AMThis was always going to be a tough win coming off exam week and Christmas break for Hope. ;)

Was that sarcasm?  or a legitimate statement?

just a jerk being a jerk

reoooooooooow!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 29, 2009, 01:53:46 PM
Quote from: MaroonKnighty on December 29, 2009, 01:50:10 PM
Quote from: sac on December 29, 2009, 01:21:58 PM
Quote from: Wydown Blvd. on December 29, 2009, 11:51:29 AM
Quote from: wiz on December 29, 2009, 07:36:48 AMThis was always going to be a tough win coming off exam week and Christmas break for Hope. ;)

Was that sarcasm?  or a legitimate statement?

just a jerk being a jerk

reoooooooooow!

original
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 29, 2009, 02:39:33 PM
Hope wins big 87-57 over Piedmont.  Another big game game (and double-double) from Philana Greene - 19 points and 12 reb (including 7 off reb), 3 assists and 4 steals.  Abby Phillips with 13 (in 10 minutes) , Kust with 12, and Cowen with 11.

Hope shot 35% from the floor, but rebounding was the key in this game.  Hope out rebounded Piedmont 62-37.  The most amazing thing about the rebounding is that Hope finished with 38 offensive rebounds
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on December 29, 2009, 02:53:05 PM
maybe they will come home today  and they get some rest for a while to next week hope they have a happy newyear 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on December 30, 2009, 05:20:58 PM
New polls are out.  Hope fell a little, Calvin climbed, and Carthage not getting the respect they deserve.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sumfun on December 30, 2009, 05:49:25 PM
Actually moving from 24 to 15 is a huge jump.  Rightly so, it takes a while to earn respect to move up into the top 10.  If Carthage keeps winning big over unranked teams, beats ranked teams, they'll move up.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on December 31, 2009, 12:25:03 PM
Quote from: sumfun on December 30, 2009, 05:49:25 PM
Actually moving from 24 to 15 is a huge jump.  Rightly so, it takes a while to earn respect to move up into the top 10.  If Carthage keeps winning big over unranked teams, beats ranked teams, they'll move up.

I tend to agree that is a good move.  After watching these polls from their start the natural bias is towards teams that finished the prior year well.  Historically the drop down and out has been slower than the rise through the rankings. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 06, 2010, 09:21:19 AM
The Hope/Alma game tonight has been changed to a 6pm start at DeVos Fieldhouse.

Also it sounds like Carrie Snikkers may be out for some time, and we may not get to see the Snikkers/Verkaik matchup until much later in the season. :-\
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on January 06, 2010, 05:42:47 PM
Quote from: sac on January 06, 2010, 09:21:19 AM


    it sounds like Carrie Snikkers may be out for some time, and we may not get to see the Snikkers/Verkaik matchup until much later in the season. :-\

Carrie is not expected to play before February so it doesn't appear that we'll see the matchup between these two players before the conference tournament.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 06, 2010, 06:58:15 PM
Quote from: oldknight on January 06, 2010, 05:42:47 PM
Quote from: sac on January 06, 2010, 09:21:19 AM


   it sounds like Carrie Snikkers may be out for some time, and we may not get to see the Snikkers/Verkaik matchup until much later in the season. :-\

Carrie is not expected to play before February so it doesn't appear that we'll see the matchup between these two players before the conference tournament.

Just as long as she returns by then!  The match-up I'm dying to see is Snikkers vs. Solari in Bloomington in the FF! :o

('Hope' I didn't just jinx either Hope or IWU! ::))

(And if it is Verkaik vs. Solari, that's cool, too - though Verkaik hasn't been RIGHT behind Solari for two years! ;D)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on January 06, 2010, 10:04:41 PM
That is too bad on Snickers.  Did she break her foot?  My biggest question being out that long is her conditioning.  I think all would agree that is her only weakness.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on January 07, 2010, 07:52:04 AM
Quote from: Calvinhoops on January 06, 2010, 10:04:41 PM
That is too bad on Snickers.  Did she break her foot? 

Stress fracture.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 07, 2010, 01:08:08 PM
Quote from: oldknight on January 07, 2010, 07:52:04 AM
Quote from: Calvinhoops on January 06, 2010, 10:04:41 PM
That is too bad on Snickers.  Did she break her foot? 

Stress fracture.

That is bad news.  No medical training, but it just seems a stress fracture is almost harder to come back from than a more typical broken bone. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on January 07, 2010, 02:02:16 PM
Quote from: realist on January 07, 2010, 01:08:08 PM
Quote from: oldknight on January 07, 2010, 07:52:04 AM
Quote from: Calvinhoops on January 06, 2010, 10:04:41 PM
That is too bad on Snickers.  Did she break her foot? 

Stress fracture.

That is bad news.  No medical training, but it just seems a stress fracture is almost harder to come back from than a more typical broken bone. 


Not really. She has a metatarsel stress fracture and if the bone breaks she will have to have surgery and likely a pin put in place. That's pretty major and would require that she be inactive for 6-8 months.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 07, 2010, 02:16:01 PM
Quote from: oldknight on January 06, 2010, 05:42:47 PM
Quote from: sac on January 06, 2010, 09:21:19 AM


    it sounds like Carrie Snikkers may be out for some time, and we may not get to see the Snikkers/Verkaik matchup until much later in the season. :-\

Carrie is not expected to play before February so it doesn't appear that we'll see the matchup between these two players before the conference tournament.

We can Hope for a chance for her to play in the game at Calvin on Feb 3
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 07, 2010, 04:12:27 PM
Thanks OK.  I Googled metatarsel stress fracture, and I see the point you are making.  The key thing seems to be rest, and not using the foot.
I recall other players having this type of stress fracture, and it seemed to be a lingering injury, but perhaps they cam back too soon.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 08, 2010, 03:56:45 PM
Massey ratings are out for women's DIII basketball. Here' show the MIAA stacks up:

1. Hope (#5)
2. Calvin (#22)
3. St Mary's (#92)
4. Trine (#159)
5. Adrian (#176)
6. Albion (#206)
7. Olivet (#268)
8. Alma (#273)
9. Kalamazoo (#333)

Over all, that puts the MIAA at #12 as a conference, only 11 points behind the WIAC. On the men's side, the conference is at #15, 16 points behind the WIAC.

Carthage is gaining respect pretty slowly in the D3hoops poll, but Massey has them at #3.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 11, 2010, 07:38:49 PM
Trine packed the paint against the Knights Saturday, triple-teamed Verkaik, and slowed the game down. They managed to hold her to 8 points, 8 rebounds, and 5 blocks on 3/7 from the floor in 20 minutes of PT. The Knights' guards were reasonably successful in taking advantage of the defense, hitting 7 of 19 three-pointer attempts. Freshmen Kelsey Irwin is starting to have an impact in this regard, with a team-leading 17 treys, hitting them at an eye-opening .472 clip, in only 10 minutes per game on average.

No doubt other MIAA teams will try the same thing, and Verkaik's point production may go down. At the same time, the guards will get more open looks from the outside. It'll be interesting to see how well they take advantage of the situation.

The final score was 58-40, but the Knights were up by 26, 56-30, with 7 minutes left. Trine was playing without three normal starters because of injury and illness.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 16, 2010, 04:51:17 PM
Hope and Calvin both win this afternoon to set up the showdown Tuesday evening at DeVos Fieldhouse.


Hope trailed Albion 22-21 at the half and held the Brits scoreless for 8 minutes, and without a FG for the first 13 minutes of the 2nd half.  Albion finished the half with just 12 points and 2 FG's.   :o
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 16, 2010, 07:41:50 PM
Quote from: sac on January 16, 2010, 04:51:17 PM
Hope and Calvin both win this afternoon to set up the showdown Tuesday evening at DeVos Fieldhouse.


Hope trailed Albion 22-21 at the half and held the Brits scoreless for 8 minutes, and without a FG for the first 13 minutes of the 2nd half.  Albion finished the half with just 12 points and 2 FG's.   :o

And that was after a first half wiht only 7 field goals.  I can't remember seeing a team get less than 10 field goals in a game.  That is some serious defense.   Philana Greene nearly had a rare kind of double double - 11 points and 9 steals
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on January 17, 2010, 11:31:09 AM
looking towards a good game tuesday  night  hope vs calvin  it could be a sellout
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ziggy on January 17, 2010, 04:15:23 PM
Quote from: sac on January 16, 2010, 04:51:17 PM
Hope and Calvin both win this afternoon to set up the showdown Tuesday evening at DeVos Fieldhouse.

Streaming video would be nice...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 17, 2010, 05:36:48 PM
Quote from: ziggy on January 17, 2010, 04:15:23 PM
Quote from: sac on January 16, 2010, 04:51:17 PM
Hope and Calvin both win this afternoon to set up the showdown Tuesday evening at DeVos Fieldhouse.

Streaming video would be nice...

Being there in person would be better.........no video I'm sure.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on January 17, 2010, 09:28:26 PM
Quote from: ziggy on January 17, 2010, 04:15:23 PM
Quote from: sac on January 16, 2010, 04:51:17 PM
Hope and Calvin both win this afternoon to set up the showdown Tuesday evening at DeVos Fieldhouse.

Streaming video would be nice...

They have it. I watched a portion of Calvin's easy win over Albion on Wednesday night and the quality was quite good. Got audio too though the timing seemed to be a bit off because I heard what was happening before I observed it. I assume the service will be available Wednesday as well.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on January 17, 2010, 09:34:37 PM
That was a Calvin broadcast.   This game is at Hope.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on January 17, 2010, 11:06:04 PM
Quote from: Calvinhoops on January 17, 2010, 09:34:37 PM
That was a Calvin broadcast.   This game is at Hope.

Good catch. It really is best to test one's assumptions. :-[
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 18, 2010, 03:27:24 PM
Hopefully the game tomorrow will live up to our expectations. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 18, 2010, 07:56:50 PM
Quote from: realist on January 18, 2010, 03:27:24 PM
Hopefully the game tomorrow will live up to our expectations. 

What are our expectations? Massey has Hope over Calvin by about 10 at Hope. Can Calvin make it a barn burner?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on January 18, 2010, 10:42:23 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on January 18, 2010, 07:56:50 PM
Quote from: realist on January 18, 2010, 03:27:24 PM
Hopefully the game tomorrow will live up to our expectations. 

What are our expectations? Massey has Hope over Calvin by about 10 at Hope. Can Calvin make it a barn burner?


I assume Massey doesn't account for Snikkers' absence and that's a huge factor. Without Carrie playing, I think this game is pretty much a toss-up.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 19, 2010, 09:32:31 AM
Quote from: oldknight on January 18, 2010, 10:42:23 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on January 18, 2010, 07:56:50 PM
Quote from: realist on January 18, 2010, 03:27:24 PM
Hopefully the game tomorrow will live up to our expectations. 

What are our expectations? Massey has Hope over Calvin by about 10 at Hope. Can Calvin make it a barn burner?

I assume Massey doesn't account for Snikkers' absence and that's a huge factor. Without Carrie playing, I think this game is pretty much a toss-up.

Hope has played six games without Carrie, so Massey is starting to reflect that. Also, Massey weights the most recent games more highly.

Looking at common opponents, etc. I think Hope is still doing a bit better than Calvin, and the game is at Hope. But in part the statistics reflect Hope's bench vs. Calvin's bench for blowout games -- and all the statistics go out the window anyway for a Rivalry game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 19, 2010, 10:08:11 AM
Quote from: oldknight on January 18, 2010, 10:42:23 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on January 18, 2010, 07:56:50 PM
Quote from: realist on January 18, 2010, 03:27:24 PM
Hopefully the game tomorrow will live up to our expectations. 

What are our expectations? Massey has Hope over Calvin by about 10 at Hope. Can Calvin make it a barn burner?


I assume Massey doesn't account for Snikkers' absence and that's a huge factor. Without Carrie playing, I think this game is pretty much a toss-up.

I would agree with that assessment.........

using only the 6 games Snikkers hasn't played, and looking at common opponents

Carthage 51 Hope 47 @ Oglethorpe
Carthage 58 Calvin 47

Hope 80 Kzoo 51 @ Kzoo
Calvin 78 Kzoo 35

Hope 91 St. Mary's 72 @ St. Mary's
Calvin 64 Hope 58

Hope 50 Albion 34 @ Albion
Calvin 65 Albion 44

only real difference other than Hope playing all those games on the road vs 1 for Calvin is the St. Mary's result, and given Hope's only reg. season loss came  their last year, I'm sure playing well at St. Mary's was a big goal of this years team.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 19, 2010, 10:15:09 AM
2006--1,905
2006--1,950  MIAA Tournament Championship
2007--2,911
2008--2,333
2009--1,612

Not bad attendance at these games in Holland, this has become a pretty big date on the Hope sports calender.

This is the first time in Hope's DeVos era that there isn't a men's game going on somewhere on the same date while hosting Calvin.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 19, 2010, 10:52:30 AM
Not sure about anyone else, but my expectation is that it is going to be one great ball game. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on January 19, 2010, 12:29:32 PM
According to the Holland Sentinel, there is a "chance" Carrie Snikkers will play tonight pending the results of a MRI yesterday. See sidebar.

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/sports/sports_hope/x1689212125/Freshman-point-guard-leads-Hope-into-tonights-showdown-with-Calvin
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: 80sshorts on January 19, 2010, 08:08:22 PM
Ouch Calvin, sounds like they're getting absolutely no second chance opportunities, I don't know these teams well but is there a big size mismatch between the two?  the field goal difference is huge!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ziggy on January 19, 2010, 08:13:44 PM
Quote from: 80sshorts on January 19, 2010, 08:08:22 PM
Ouch Calvin, sounds like they're getting absolutely no second chance opportunities, I don't know these teams well but is there a big size mismatch between the two?  the field goal difference is huge!

I've just received word that the Lady Knights committed another turnover on their way to the locker room.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 19, 2010, 08:35:36 PM
Quote from: 80sshorts on January 19, 2010, 08:08:22 PM
Ouch Calvin, sounds like they're getting absolutely no second chance opportunities, I don't know these teams well but is there a big size mismatch between the two?  the field goal difference is huge!
There are some differences, but the Knights are playing like a deer in the headlights.  They (Knights) have historically had a problem protecting the ball, and Hope has used that to their great advantage.  I hate to think what the score might be if Ms. Snikkers were on the floor.
Have to give Hope all the credit.  They came to play, and really knew how to shut down Verkaik.
Not the game I expected, but than I am sure I am not alone in this.  Doubt it will happen twice as Calvin historically has learned from these experiences.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 19, 2010, 09:06:47 PM
Less than 2 minutes to go.  15 point lead, and finally we see Hope's subs?
What's with that?  Up till now only 10 deep. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on January 19, 2010, 10:08:50 PM
An after the game comment by Coach Morehouse Sr was that Snikkers has been cleared for moderate practice. Hopefully this leads to some game time for the Feb 3rd Calvin game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on January 19, 2010, 11:23:57 PM
Quote from: oldknight on December 23, 2009, 11:38:48 AM


Calvin has things to prove against good competition.  Calvin may well be able to match Hope this season but I'm concerned about the Lady Knights' perimeter game. Hope appears to be a much better team from the arc than is Calvin and, unlike the Lady Knights, Hope's women force far more turnovers than they commit. As good as Snikkers is, I think how well or poorly the two teams perform in the backcourt may be the deciding factor when they finally meet.

Unfortunately, that concern proved out. In the first half Hope simply annihilated Calvin's backcourt by forcing more turnovers (18) than shots allowed (17). The reasons were partly superior athleticism, but more a matter of incredibly foolish execution on entry passes. Calvin doesn't appear to have any perimeter players with the quickness of feet to match the likes of Ellis, DeKuiper, Cerone and Cowen. Even Philana Green--hardly the fleetest of foot--looked quick by comparison. The amazing thing is that Hope forced all those turnovers by simply playing straight up man-to-man defense--no pressing, no zone, no doubling the ball.

Their are times I think the most overrated and overutilized skill in basketball is the bounce pass and Calvin's first half would support that assessment. I don't know how many times you need to have your entry pass stolen when thrown from beyond the arc before you get the message that this is a poor tactic. Why one would repeatedly throw bounce passes to a 6'2" player in a women's game is beyond me. Few women have the power to make that kind of pass strongly enough from that distance to be successful. It was enough to make me want to go into the locker room at half and tell the ladies to make sure that every entry pass they make in the second half be thrown over the top. Happily, John Ross saw the same thing. I don't remember Lady Knights entering the ball into the post from off the floor once after the break and the improvement in Calvin's fortunes was considerable the final 20 minutes. Given the two teams' talent levels, Calvin needs to know what style of play works and what style doesn't. Maybe they learned from tonight's action.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 20, 2010, 01:16:30 AM
Quote from: realist on January 19, 2010, 09:06:47 PM
Less than 2 minutes to go.  15 point lead, and finally we see Hope's subs?
What's with that?  Up till now only 10 deep. 

Only 10 deep ? ? ?


Ever notice that there seems to be an expectation that Hope teams should just quit playing when they get up by 15 or so........... ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 20, 2010, 01:34:23 AM
I don't watch much women's basketball but I thought this was a very well played game by these two teams.  Lots of good shots, passing, movement and defense.  What doesn't show in the box is how many tough layups and ridiculous passes the Hope ladies made last night and had to make.  One of the hardest earned 15 point wins I think you can see.

I thought Hope played about as well as they can possibly play with the exception of a few missed bunnies inside in the first half.  Hope had twice as many steals, half as many turnovers, made twice as many 3 pointers and won by 15, which doesn't seem like as much as it should have been.


The difference was the last 15 minutes of the first half where Oldknight has already pointed out the difficulty Calvin had getting the ball inside.  I saw all 10 Hope players who played with their hands out and getting in the passing lanes.  Hope's lead was just to big, it would have taken a pretty monumental effort to beat Hope by 18 in the second half.  That said imagine if it had been just a 10 point lead and Calvin came out and played like they did in the second half and the Dutch would have been under a lot more pressure and duress to make shots.  Calvin made good 2nd half adjustments at both ends (better pressure on D, finding the open shots on O) and it took a good 10 minutes before Hope figured out what they needed to do on their end.  


Calvin will drop in the polls, but I'm really not sure they should, those are two very good D3 womens basketball teams.  I imagine it will have to take an amazingly off night for one of these to lose to anyone but each other in the MIAA.  With the current rosters and despite the 15 point difference I'm not so sure there's that wide of a gap between these two teams.  Round 2 at Calvin should be very interesting.


attendance = 3,177
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 20, 2010, 01:51:37 AM
From the beginning of the 2nd half vs Albion to halftime vs Calvin the Hope ladies gave up 9 FG's on 9-33 shooting or 27.2%...........33 attempts is about half what you expect in 40 minutes of action.  They gave up 30 total points, scored 64 points themselves and recorded 22 steals for these 40 minutes.

The Hope women played some mean basketball between about 4 pm Saturday and 8:30 last night.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 20, 2010, 10:58:06 AM
Quote from: sac on January 20, 2010, 01:16:30 AM
Quote from: realist on January 19, 2010, 09:06:47 PM
Less than 2 minutes to go.  15 point lead, and finally we see Hope's subs?
What's with that?  Up till now only 10 deep. 

Only 10 deep ? ? ?


Ever notice that there seems to be an expectation that Hope teams should just quit playing when they get up by 15 or so........... ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

According to the live stats those were the numbers.
Calvin was 14 deep at that point in the game.

I don't expect Hope or any team to stop playing, but that is different than having your starters on the floor when the game was obviously over.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 20, 2010, 11:35:32 AM
Quote from: realist on January 20, 2010, 10:58:06 AM
Quote from: sac on January 20, 2010, 01:16:30 AM
Quote from: realist on January 19, 2010, 09:06:47 PM
Less than 2 minutes to go.  15 point lead, and finally we see Hope's subs?
What's with that?  Up till now only 10 deep. 

Only 10 deep ? ? ?


Ever notice that there seems to be an expectation that Hope teams should just quit playing when they get up by 15 or so........... ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

According to the live stats those were the numbers.
Calvin was 14 deep at that point in the game.

I don't expect Hope or any team to stop playing, but that is different than having your starters on the floor when the game was obviously over.

Calvin took its last starter off the floor at 1:57, Hope 26 seconds later........big freaking deal.

Putting your 2 Seniors on the floor so they can be acknowledged in front of their home fans in possibly their last Hope/Calvin game is such a horrible thing to do . ::)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on January 20, 2010, 06:21:51 PM
Quote from: sac on January 20, 2010, 11:35:32 AM
Quote from: realist on January 20, 2010, 10:58:06 AM
Quote from: sac on January 20, 2010, 01:16:30 AM
Quote from: realist on January 19, 2010, 09:06:47 PM
Less than 2 minutes to go.  15 point lead, and finally we see Hope's subs?
What's with that?  Up till now only 10 deep. 

Only 10 deep ? ? ?


Ever notice that there seems to be an expectation that Hope teams should just quit playing when they get up by 15 or so........... ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

According to the live stats those were the numbers.
Calvin was 14 deep at that point in the game.

I don't expect Hope or any team to stop playing, but that is different than having your starters on the floor when the game was obviously over.

Calvin took its last starter off the floor at 1:57, Hope 26 seconds later........big freaking deal.

Putting your 2 Seniors on the floor so they can be acknowledged in front of their home fans in possibly their last Hope/Calvin game is such a horrible thing to do . ::)

Not to mention, 2 of Calvin's "14 deep" just came in at the 3:41 mark.

Really sad that someone decided the best thing to comment on was late-game subbing decisions.   ::)

I would like to point out the contribution from one particular freshman post player...Meredith Kussmaul.  Coming in off the bench, playing 22 min. in her first Rivalry game, she posted a team-best 14 points, game-best 8 rebounds (5 offensive), 2 steals, an assist, and no turnovers.  This young lady is sharp!  With pre-season AA Snikkers out, Kussmaul has really stepped up to take some very important minutes in the post.  She had been averaging 6.4 points and 4.6 rebounds in 15.5 minutes, but took control in the paint when she was in there.  Nice job by the freshman.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: GoKnights68 on January 21, 2010, 01:15:32 AM
Some highlights of Tuesday Night's Hope victory over Calvin are up on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Epq2WAYpp8
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on January 21, 2010, 09:07:43 PM
the hope girls won tonight snikkers  is going to be back next week she was in the warm ups tonight
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on January 21, 2010, 10:40:06 PM
Just returned from the Hope-Adrian women's game.  For those who are keeping track, at 1:31 to go in the game, the "C" squad was definitely playing and had been since the 10:31 mark.  Of course, coach Mo did pull the "C" squad about 4 minutes into their run for a brief "in-game" coaching session and replaced them for about a minute-and-a-half with the "B" squad.  I certainly hope this did not offend anyone's sensibilities.  ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 25, 2010, 01:06:26 PM
Carissa Verkaik may have set the MIAA record for most blocks in a season last game. On the MIAA page, the record is 35 blocks in 12 games, and Carissa has 37 in 9 games so far.

However, that record is listed as "Most shots blocked average per game" and it's possible that there were some players who had more blocks in a 14- or 16-game season. At worst, Carissa needs 10 more blocks over the next 7 games to beat the league record.

Update: another MIAA page has records for most blocks in a 12-, 14-, or 16-game season. It looks as though Carissa will need 9 more blocks to hold the "most blocks in a season" mark and 10 more blocks to hold the "most blocks per game" record.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on January 25, 2010, 11:45:50 PM
Do you think Calvin gets an at large bid to the NCAA's if they lose to Hope two more times?  Once at home and once in the conference tournament?  How about if they lose an additional game along the way like St. Mary's on Wednesday night?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: GoKnights68 on January 26, 2010, 01:15:25 AM
New top 25 is out.  Hope stays at #5 and Calvin drops back just one spot, from 9 to 10.



http://d3hoops.com/top25/
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 26, 2010, 08:55:47 AM
Quote from: Calvinhoops on January 25, 2010, 11:45:50 PM
Do you think Calvin gets an at large bid to the NCAA's if they lose to Hope two more times?  Once at home and once in the conference tournament?  How about if they lose an additional game along the way like St. Mary's on Wednesday night?

Scary questions - brings back memories of the Hope teams from 03-04 and 04-05.  Both of those teams finished 23-4 and did not make it to the tournament.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on January 27, 2010, 12:51:32 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on January 26, 2010, 08:55:47 AM
Quote from: Calvinhoops on January 25, 2010, 11:45:50 PM
Do you think Calvin gets an at large bid to the NCAA's if they lose to Hope two more times?  Once at home and once in the conference tournament?  How about if they lose an additional game along the way like St. Mary's on Wednesday night?

Scary questions - brings back memories of the Hope teams from 03-04 and 04-05.  Both of those teams finished 23-4 and did not make it to the tournament.

If Calvin losses two more times to Hope, but wins the rest of their MIAA games, I think they would receive an at large bid.  In that case their only losses would be against two other (likely) tornament teams.

However, if the Knights lose to another MIAA team and do not win the MIAA tournament they weaken their chances of receiving a bid. 

The D3 selection process places a lot of emphais on strength of schecule and opponents opponents strenthgh of schedule.  The relative weakness of the rest of MIAA in non-conference play, and with most of the league being under 500 in conference play, it is very difficult for second place teams to play in the post season.  A bad night or two can be very difficult to overcome due to the selection process.

This is not nessarily fair.  I think both Albions 2008 team and last year's St. Mary's team were better than the  opening round opponent Hope face thos years, but the quantitaive approach taken for filling the brackets works against tour conference.  Since it is difficult for the selection committee to really see most of the bubble teams play, the process  as designed is probably the best way to fill in the tournament overall, but it is tough on strong non-automatic qualifiers in weak conferences.  Calvin and Hope would be well seved if two or three other conference opponents could put together very strong non-conference records.

Disclaimer:  I do not think it is a given that Calvin falls to Hope  in the remaining contesst.  Hope did a great job of shutting down the inside in the first half of last game.  The Knights learned from that experience and made adjustments in the second half.  Based on last years  game at Calvin, the Knights are a tough team to face at home.  The w-l record of the last four years does not reflect how tough some of these games have  been.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 27, 2010, 01:29:17 PM
A key thing to remember is the NCAA really only takes into consideration the "in_region" games.   On the D3 SOS page it is showing Hope as 13-0 and Calvin is 10-1.  Carthage is not a factor for either team as it is not "in-region".
If Calvin were to lose it's next 2 games to Hope, but win all the others they could finish "in-region" at 18-3 for a .857 regional percentage.  We will know more next week once the regional rankings come out. 
For Calvin to beat Hope (even on their own floor) they need to play just about the perfect game.  Minimize turnovers.  Hope has a great team, excellent coach and players.  What Calvin's players need to realize is they only need to beat the 5 Hope players on the floor.  I know that is a tall order, but Calvin needs to forget the Hope "mystic", and play the best game they can.   :) 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 27, 2010, 02:06:45 PM
Quote from: goknights68 on January 26, 2010, 01:15:25 AM
New top 25 is out.  Hope stays at #5 and Calvin drops back just one spot, from 9 to 10.



http://d3hoops.com/top25/

Pleasantly surprised, well done by the voters.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on January 27, 2010, 02:20:26 PM
Realist you are right about in region and Carthage (that lake really messes with the logical application of in region).

The SOS number for Calvin is a relatively weak .490.  This number becomes very important for non-automatic conference qualifiers (usually the winner of the conference tournament).  Since all remaining games are within the MIAA it is more likely this number will go down than up.

Out of 430 teams, Hope has an SOS place of 106 and Calvin's is 294.  Bowdin is 13-3 in region, but has the highest SOS #.  Teams like that will have first shot for the B bids.

Since I do not expect the Knights to lose to any other conference opponents (other than Hope  ;)) I think their in region record and reputation will result in a tournament bid.  However, a loss to another MIAA team combined with two additional losses to Hope could place them in an uncomfortable bubble situation.

Of course, the same could be said for the Dutch in the event they lost three more games.

A recent example is 2007 when Hope had two season losses to Calvin plus a loss to Albion.  We will never know for sure, but the Dutch staff believed they had to win the (now infamous) MIAA tournament title game on the Knights home floor to make the NCAAs even though they had won the national championship the previous year. 

The selection process is complicated by the fact that most of spots are filled by automatic qualifiers.  A few upsets in the conferences with generally high SOS rankings can hurt very good teams that end up with low SOS numbers due to the conference schedule and difficulty of scheduling strong in region opponents.  Hope and Calvin contend with this situation every year.

With all that said, I think both teams will represent the MIAA in the post season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on January 27, 2010, 09:51:51 PM
Carrie Snikkers did not start tonight's game against Trine, but get in a few short stints during the game.  She seemed to be running well; she did not get very involved in the offense, but her presense was immediately evident on defense.  It was just good to see her back in action.  She, of course, is the unknown factor in the next Hope-Calvin game, since she did not play in the win at De Vos.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 27, 2010, 09:59:04 PM
I saw her name in the box score.  Calvin could not win with her in street clothes, and if she is even at 50 or 75% not sure even with a perfect game they can get it done.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 27, 2010, 10:10:58 PM
Quote from: realist on January 27, 2010, 09:59:04 PM
I saw her name in the box score.  Calvin could not win with her in street clothes, and if she is even at 50 or 75% not sure even with a perfect game they can get it done.


She was dressed for the Calvin game....... ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 27, 2010, 10:35:18 PM
Thanks for the correction Sac.  (Now that you mention it I recall someone may have posted that info).   Perhaps her mere presence on the floor dressed to play accounts for the severe case of the hebe-jebe's that Calvin had.   :)  Unless Calvin can do something to correct their problem with t.o's I think their season will end short of any goals they may have set.  Tonight vs. SM they turned it over 23 times.
For some reason both the womens and mens teams at Calvin have a real problem with t.o's.  My only thought is the Calvin coaches do not stress going for the steals like some teams do so when a team plays the ball aggressively the players don't respond well.  Than again that would make sense early in the year, but not after 15 or 16 games.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 28, 2010, 06:33:25 AM
Quote from: realist on January 27, 2010, 10:35:18 PM
Thanks for the correction Sac.  (Now that you mention it I recall someone may have posted that info).   Perhaps her mere presence on the floor dressed to play accounts for the severe case of the hebe-jebe's that Calvin had.   :)  Unless Calvin can do something to correct their problem with t.o's I think their season will end short of any goals they may have set.  Tonight vs. SM they turned it over 23 times.
For some reason both the womens and mens teams at Calvin have a real problem with t.o's.  My only thought is the Calvin coaches do not stress going for the steals like some teams do so when a team plays the ball aggressively the players don't respond well.  Than again that would make sense early in the year, but not after 15 or 16 games.

I didn't see the game, but as I recall Calvin made some adjustments and had the TOs down to a much more acceptable level in the second half -- and in fact outscored Hope. My take would have been that the return match at the VNA would have been pretty much a toss-up without Snikkers.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 28, 2010, 11:36:02 AM
Yes, Calvin did adjust, and the t.o.'s did come down, but Hope is hard enough to beat as it is without spotting them a big lead at the start.
If Calvin can come out strong at the start, and keep the game close it will be interesting to see how Hope responds to that.  I think Hope is a great team, but I also think Calvin is capable of beating them, but only if they play really smart ball.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 30, 2010, 10:35:03 PM
Carrie Snikkers was back in the starting lineup tonight for Hope, 10 pts 7rbs.........but her brother was better today.


Hope has held its last 5 opponents to 18, 12, 21, 18 and 22 points in the first half.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on February 01, 2010, 12:32:17 AM
Quote from: sac on January 30, 2010, 10:35:03 PM
Carrie Snikkers was back in the starting lineup tonight for Hope, 10 pts 7rbs.........but her brother was better today.


Hope has held its last 5 opponents to 18, 12, 21, 18 and 22 points in the first half.

:D  good one.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 01, 2010, 09:16:45 PM
New poll is out  http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/

#4 Hope vs #9 Calvin Wednesday night.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on February 03, 2010, 12:58:58 PM
Wow.  Rivalry game tonight, and oth teams are in the top 10 of multiple national polls.  Where's the chatter?   ???
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 03, 2010, 03:30:08 PM
At this point in time about the only thing that really matters is the two teams on the floor.  I expect a classic game, but these don't always turn out as we expect.  Last time I really expected Calvin to make more of a game of it, but give Hope the credit they got Calvin on their heels early on, and never let up.  I think it is possible for Calvin to win, but they need to have a minimum of t/o's, and make f.t's.  With Snikkers back it is going to take the perfect game for Calvin to prevail. :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 03, 2010, 11:28:26 PM
I wasn't there so I don't know if it met the criteria for 'classic'...........1 point game with 5 to go usually does.

http://www.miaa.org/wbb/stats/0910/0203cahp.htm

Not much doubt Carrie was a big factor in the game and maybe the difference.....or maybe Liz Ellis and her 8 points in the deciding minutes.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on February 03, 2010, 11:43:39 PM
Quote from: sac on February 03, 2010, 11:28:26 PM
I wasn't there so I don't know if it met the criteria for 'classic'...........1 point game with 5 to go usually does.

http://www.miaa.org/wbb/stats/0910/0203cahp.htm

Not much doubt Carrie was a big factor in the game and maybe the difference.....or maybe Liz Ellis and her 8 points in the deciding minutes.

Liz was a big contributor in the last part of the game, 2 for 2 from 3 and 2 free throws. She had a big contingent in the stands.

On the other side, Calvin, leading 50-49 with 5:35 to go, didn't score the rest of the way, going 0-9 from the field and missing the front end of a 1-1.

Verkaik has an awesome hook shot, I think going 4-4 with it, that I didn't see at the first Hope-Calvin game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 04, 2010, 12:12:03 AM
I had the great displeasure  ;) of sitting in a crowd of Hope fans for tonight's game, all of whom cried for traveling every time Carissa made a move in the post.

Her general move was to pivot to face the basket, and then jump off of her non-pivot foot (lifting her pivot) to shoot. I've often heard complaining when people see this happen in the men's game as well, so let's all educate ourselves a bit. It does look like traveling (the refs even called it once), but it's expressly allowed in the rules:

Rule 4, Section 68, Art. 4.
After coming to a stop and establishing the pivot foot:
a. The pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the playing court, before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal;


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 04, 2010, 11:23:51 AM
The word classic is perhaps over used at times.  As I mentioned yesterday Calvin had to control their turn overs, and with 28 they obviously did not do that.  One stupid pass attempt after another into traffic resulting in a turnover, and an easy lay up on the other end.  Calvin did a better job forcing Hope into more turnovers than I've seen them make in some time.
Calvin was in the game, and had a chance at 50-49.  Give Hope the credit.  When the pressure was the greatest they responded like the great team they are.   :)
It was fun watching Snikkers and Verkaik.  Some diffferences in style, and I was impressed with Snikkers, and her drive to the basket.  I think she has played ball with heer brothers a time or two.
I wonder why we don't see that hook shot more often.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: GoKnights68 on February 04, 2010, 01:53:57 PM
Snikkers probably coulda/shoulda scored more.  Calvin wasn't really ever double-teaming her like they should have.   Didn't matter though because Hope dominated the last 5 minutes.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 04, 2010, 03:37:27 PM
While I think last year's game at the Van Nord was a better played game and more exciting down the stretch, I was not disappointed that I made the trip to GR for this match up.

I thought that Ross did a great job of putting his team in position to win the game.  It seemed to me that he mixed his rotation up a little; often matching Verkaik and another starter against Hope's second rotation.  Usually there is not much difference in the productivity of Hope's bench and the starters.  But last night was the roughest overall performance I have ever seen from the bench.  A lot of this may have been the result of the matchups that the Knights were able to engineer.

Morehouse basically prefers to rotate his "lines" about every five minutes, with the starters perhaps getting a couple of extra minutes per game.  Hopefully last night was just an off night for some of the players, otherwise I believe Morehouse will have to think hard about the post-season rotation.

On the other hand, I don't know if I have seen the starters play as well as a unit since the 2006 championship run.

Last night proved the Dutch cannot take the Knights for granted when they meet for the MIAA tournament championship.

Regarding the traveling calls:  I agree with KnightSlappy that traveling rules are often mis understood.  A lot of refs watch the upper body rather than the feet and make ay too many calls.  VerKaik's step through move is maybe the best I've seen.  It is so effective because she pushes the rule to the limits and that makes it difficult to execute as well as defend.  I did think the ref called traveling improperly once, but I also think she got away with a couple.  But the groans from my fellow fans were usually misplaced.

On the other hand, I thought one of the foul calls against Carrie was pretty weak and the final one was bogus, but perhaps I also have orange colored galsses.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on February 04, 2010, 08:26:08 PM
Go to this link for a very nice video on the Flyilng Dutch basketball team:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANEnsTc_2Zw

I received this link in the latest of Coach Morehouse's " Women's Basketball Email Update" , which he sends out several times a week.
If you are interested in being on the mailing list, send an email to wbb@hope.edu and request to be added to the list. 

Great game last night.  Thanks to Liz Ellis, it did not wind up being such a cardiac case as last year's game. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: GoKnights68 on February 05, 2010, 04:44:41 PM
Calvin's Coach Ross had some praising comments to say about Hope, calling them the best team in division 2 and 3, and saying they could beat some division 1 teams.  Woo!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 05, 2010, 04:51:51 PM
Quote from: goknights68 on February 05, 2010, 04:44:41 PM
Calvin's Coach Ross had some praising comments to say about Hope, calling them the best team in division 2 and 3, and saying they could beat some division 1 teams.  Woo!

Just a touch of hyperbole.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2010, 05:05:44 PM
Quote from: goknights68 on February 05, 2010, 04:44:41 PM
Calvin's Coach Ross had some praising comments to say about Hope, calling them the best team in division 2 and 3, and saying they could beat some division 1 teams.  Woo!

I dare say there may be some young ladies in Amherst and Bloomington who might not concede the issue! ;D  (Perhaps in Kenosha also, since they beat both Calvin and Hope - albeit when Snikkers was injured.)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on February 05, 2010, 05:44:49 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2010, 05:05:44 PM
Quote from: goknights68 on February 05, 2010, 04:44:41 PM
Calvin's Coach Ross had some praising comments to say about Hope, calling them the best team in division 2 and 3, and saying they could beat some division 1 teams.  Woo!

I dare say there may be some young ladies in Amherst and Bloomington who might not concede the issue! ;D  (Perhaps in Kenosha also, since they beat both Calvin and Hope - albeit when Snikkers was injured.)

If things continue to work out the way they have the last 5 weeks for Hope, there will be about 30 young ladies in Bloomington who will learn to concede the issue.   ;) ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2010, 05:53:20 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on February 05, 2010, 05:44:49 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2010, 05:05:44 PM
Quote from: goknights68 on February 05, 2010, 04:44:41 PM
Calvin's Coach Ross had some praising comments to say about Hope, calling them the best team in division 2 and 3, and saying they could beat some division 1 teams.  Woo!

I dare say there may be some young ladies in Amherst and Bloomington who might not concede the issue! ;D  (Perhaps in Kenosha also, since they beat both Calvin and Hope - albeit when Snikkers was injured.)

If things continue to work out the way they have the last 5 weeks for Hope, there will be about 30 young ladies in Bloomington who will learn to concede the issue.   ;) ;D

Could be - that's why they play the games!

I just hope the Titans will be there to defend home court.  And if they are there, Mr. Ypsi will be too!

[They haven't even selected the teams yet, much less played the first few rounds, and the FF trash-talkin' has already begun - gotta love it! ;D]
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on February 05, 2010, 06:03:06 PM
LOTS of ball to be played, for sure.  I know Hope still has some kinks to work out, as I'm sure other teams do, but hopefully with Carrie back in they can be up to their full potential by tournament time. 

I'm not sure if I really saw some new things in Hope's offense the other night, or if it was just a different perspective, sitting closer to the court than usual.  But I did like how well Coach Mo and his ladies responded to Calvin in certain game situations, especially in the last 5 minutes, stepping up both their offense and defense when the game started slipping away.  They certainly showed resolve in measures you would expect from a national contender.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 10, 2010, 09:22:15 PM
Carissa Verkaik took both of the MIAA block records today--most blocks per game and most blocks in a season. Carissa now has 50 blocks in the MIAA season with 13 games completed (and three games remaining). Previous records were 45 blocks in 16 games and 2.9 blocks per game in 12 games.

Congrats.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 12, 2010, 07:25:12 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2010, 05:53:20 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on February 05, 2010, 05:44:49 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2010, 05:05:44 PM
Quote from: goknights68 on February 05, 2010, 04:44:41 PM
Calvin's Coach Ross had some praising comments to say about Hope, calling them the best team in division 2 and 3, and saying they could beat some division 1 teams.  Woo!

I dare say there may be some young ladies in Amherst and Bloomington who might not concede the issue! ;D  (Perhaps in Kenosha also, since they beat both Calvin and Hope - albeit when Snikkers was injured.)

If things continue to work out the way they have the last 5 weeks for Hope, there will be about 30 young ladies in Bloomington who will learn to concede the issue.   ;) ;D

Could be - that's why they play the games!

I just hope the Titans will be there to defend home court.  And if they are there, Mr. Ypsi will be too!

[They haven't even selected the teams yet, much less played the first few rounds, and the FF trash-talkin' has already begun - gotta love it! ;D]

My one concern for Hope would be the competition to date. They've played four games against teams getting votes. Beat Chicago and Calvin twice, lost to Carthage without Snikkers. Hope is an incredibly talented team but I worry a bit about what happens when they have to play a really good team that is not Calvin again. It's great Hope has beat them but I don't trust those games as a measuring stick quite as much just because it is Hope-Calvin.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 12, 2010, 07:37:35 PM
Quote from: ChicagoHopeNut on February 12, 2010, 07:25:12 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2010, 05:53:20 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on February 05, 2010, 05:44:49 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2010, 05:05:44 PM
Quote from: goknights68 on February 05, 2010, 04:44:41 PM
Calvin's Coach Ross had some praising comments to say about Hope, calling them the best team in division 2 and 3, and saying they could beat some division 1 teams.  Woo!

I dare say there may be some young ladies in Amherst and Bloomington who might not concede the issue! ;D  (Perhaps in Kenosha also, since they beat both Calvin and Hope - albeit when Snikkers was injured.)

If things continue to work out the way they have the last 5 weeks for Hope, there will be about 30 young ladies in Bloomington who will learn to concede the issue.   ;) ;D

Could be - that's why they play the games!

I just hope the Titans will be there to defend home court.  And if they are there, Mr. Ypsi will be too!

[They haven't even selected the teams yet, much less played the first few rounds, and the FF trash-talkin' has already begun - gotta love it! ;D]

My one concern for Hope would be the competition to date. They've played four games against teams getting votes. Beat Chicago and Calvin twice, lost to Carthage without Snikkers. Hope is an incredibly talented team but I worry a bit about what happens when they have to play a really good team that is not Calvin again. It's great Hope has beat them but I don't trust those games as a measuring stick quite as much just because it is Hope-Calvin.

If the Titans don't make it this year, it certainly won't be due to weak scheduling.  They managed what seems to have been an unprecedented feat - they have beaten EVERY other team ranked in the Central region!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on February 13, 2010, 08:08:44 AM
Who are the Titans? I'm not good with the school nicknames.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 13, 2010, 10:47:14 AM
The Titans are Illinois Wesleyan University aka IWU
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on February 13, 2010, 10:56:16 AM
Quote from: Calvinhoops on February 13, 2010, 08:08:44 AM
Who are the Titans? I'm not good with the school nicknames.
Illinois Wesleyan, host of the women's Final Four this year and next, currently ranked #3 in the d3hoops top25 poll.  Having hosted the Final Four the past 2 years, but not playing in it, Hope people understand Mr. Ypsi's implied concern ("If the Titans don't make it...").  There seems to be a host curse, whereby the host school misses out on the Final Four experience.  

While IWU had a strong team last year, but lost in the sectionals to eventual runner-up Washington Univ. (St. Louis), they seem to have tested their mettle this year, as Mr. Y stated above.  If they are the team to break the curse and they do it this year, that would be fine with me.  I just HOPE they don't have to get past Hope to do it...and by that I mean, I HOPE they don't meet until the Final Four.  The Dutch haven't had such luck in their host years, with the selection committee seeing fit to pair them up with the eventual champs at the sectionals level.  But then, the best team wins, no matter the stage of tourney process.

I would say the Dutch have proven themselves well lately (final 5 min. of the 2nd Hope-Calvin game), grown as a team, and will show themselves quite prepared for the competition they might face in the national tournament.  Jenny Cowen seems to be finding her shot, Carrie Snikkers is dominating in the post again, and the rest of the team is fitting together and filling their roles well, among other things.  The low number of quality opponents has got to be of some concern, but that was also true 4 years ago.   ;)

I think the Dutch will go far.  Hopefully they will get to host some regional and/or sectional games, and Hope Nation travels well, so they will find even more support in Bloomington than they did in Mass, should they get there.  But as has been said already, there's lots of basketball to be played before worrying about all that.

Go (far) Hope!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on February 13, 2010, 11:00:10 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 13, 2010, 10:47:14 AM
The Titans are Illinois Wesleyan University aka IWU

You and your short answers!   ::)

;D ;) :D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 13, 2010, 11:36:11 AM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on February 13, 2010, 11:00:10 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 13, 2010, 10:47:14 AM
The Titans are Illinois Wesleyan University aka IWU

You and your short answers!   ::)

;D ;) :D

Yup
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on February 13, 2010, 11:24:03 PM
Hope 94 St Mary's 75

Hope 27 turnovers St Mary's 28 turnovers; Hope 24 steals St Mary's 10 steals
 Hope threw the ball away too many times on fastbreaks.
Liz Ellis played pretty near a flawless game, so much court-smarts for a freshman. 16 points 4 assists 1 TO and 4 steals in 20 minutes.
Downside: Snikkers back-up, Kutney fouled out after 8 minutes of play.
These teams could have gotten by with a 24 second shot clock.
Haven't seen the 5 for 5 rotations the last 3-4 games like earlier in the seson for Hope. First subs, Snikkers, Bruinsma out; Kutney, Kussmaul in.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 15, 2010, 05:00:58 PM
Congrats to Philana Greene on being the MIAA POW.  Already the all time steals leader for Hope, she is also just 24 points from the 1000 point club.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on February 17, 2010, 03:54:14 PM
I think she is the MVP of that team.  Brings a lot of heart and confidence to the game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ziggy on February 17, 2010, 09:22:12 PM
Verkaik's 46 points and 18 field goals set new MIAA single game records
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 17, 2010, 09:27:41 PM
Probably still not enough for her to get the consideration she deserves for post season honors, let alone pow.   :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 17, 2010, 09:29:59 PM
Carissa picked up a couple more MIAA records this evening with an amazing 46 points on 18 of 20 field goal attempts as Calvin defeated Adrian 93 to 77. Previous records were 42 points and 17 field goals. Carissa was able to get so many points in part because Adrian kept the game pretty close with their own good shooting (45%), so Carissa got 33 minutes of playtime. That and she hit almost every single shot.

46 points was also the largest single-game total in DIII women's basketball so far this year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on February 17, 2010, 10:56:48 PM
Clearly, Carissa is the MIAA MVP.  Tonight she just added and exclamation mark!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 17, 2010, 11:59:28 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 17, 2010, 09:29:59 PM
Carissa picked up a couple more MIAA records this evening with an amazing 46 points on 18 of 20 field goal attempts as Calvin defeated Adrian 93 to 77. Previous records were 42 points and 17 field goals. Carissa was able to get so many points in part because Adrian kept the game pretty close with their own good shooting (45%), so Carissa got 33 minutes of playtime. That and she hit almost every single shot.

46 points was also the largest single-game total in DIII women's basketball so far this year.


I didn't know that.  So I assume Elmhurst's Lyndsie Long (who set the all-time CCIW record with 45 just a few days ago) had the previous high for the year?

The AA selections will be interesting this year.  At center, I had assumed that preseason #1 Christina Solari's only real competition was preseason #2 Carrie Snikkers.  While a freshman winning first-team AA would be surpassingly rare (without checking, perhaps even unprecedented?) Carissa Verkaik certainly seems a viable rival.

In hopes that IWU will be there to defend home court, I say 'bring either one of them to Bloomington, and let's get ready to rumble'! ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hwbb on February 18, 2010, 09:25:45 AM
Quote from: wiz on February 17, 2010, 10:56:48 PM
Clearly, Carissa is the MIAA MVP.  Tonight she just added and exclamation mark!

Maybe it's just the cold weather that has fogged up my glasses, because I'm not seeing things as clearly as you are. If the leage MVP means the person with the most gaudy offensive numbers (with a coach who will let her get them or a team that absolutely must have them), then you're probably right--Ms. Verkaik is the MVP followed by Sydney Beckwith of Alma. But are offensive numbers the key stat in MVP consideration? (Are stats even the the key consideration? We'll assume so.)  What about defensive statistics? Assist-to-turnover ratio? Team leadership? (I don't know how to measure leadership, but I know it's awfully important.) Is it coming up big in the biggest games?  Point to Ms. Verkaik's game last night, and you've got an argument--maybe even a winning one, because MVPs are most often built on piles of points. Frankly, I'll take the lockdown defensive / overall team leadership / key moments in key games play of Philana Greene of Hope.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on February 18, 2010, 11:03:36 AM
CONGRATULATIONS to the Hope College Flying Dutch for winning the MIAA!!!  Wonderful team effort!!!  Good Luck ladies in the tournament!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ziggy on February 18, 2010, 01:03:09 PM
Quote from: Hwbb on February 18, 2010, 09:25:45 AM
Maybe it's just the cold weather that has fogged up my glasses, because I'm not seeing things as clearly as you are. If the leage MVP means the person with the most gaudy offensive numbers (with a coach who will let her get them or a team that absolutely must have them), then you're probably right--Ms. Verkaik is the MVP followed by Sydney Beckwith of Alma. But are offensive numbers the key stat in MVP consideration? (Are stats even the the key consideration? We'll assume so.)  What about defensive statistics? Assist-to-turnover ratio? Team leadership? (I don't know how to measure leadership, but I know it's awfully important.) Is it coming up big in the biggest games?  Point to Ms. Verkaik's game last night, and you've got an argument--maybe even a winning one, because MVPs are most often built on piles of points. Frankly, I'll take the lockdown defensive / overall team leadership / key moments in key games play of Philana Greene of Hope.

Setting the all-time league record for blocked shots should say something about Carissa's abilities on the defensive end, not to mention sitting at number two in the league in rebounding (number one in defensive rebounding). Labeling her as a one way player is quite unfair.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by the following comment: "with a coach who will let her get them"
She isn't in the top 20 in the league in minutes played so if you are insinuating that her gaudy numbers are a result of the coach playing her to pile up the stats then you probably need to rethink that.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 18, 2010, 01:40:04 PM
Quote from: ziggy on February 18, 2010, 01:03:09 PM
Quote from: Hwbb on February 18, 2010, 09:25:45 AM
Maybe it's just the cold weather that has fogged up my glasses, because I'm not seeing things as clearly as you are. If the leage MVP means the person with the most gaudy offensive numbers (with a coach who will let her get them or a team that absolutely must have them), then you're probably right--Ms. Verkaik is the MVP followed by Sydney Beckwith of Alma. But are offensive numbers the key stat in MVP consideration? (Are stats even the the key consideration? We'll assume so.)  What about defensive statistics? Assist-to-turnover ratio? Team leadership? (I don't know how to measure leadership, but I know it's awfully important.) Is it coming up big in the biggest games?  Point to Ms. Verkaik's game last night, and you've got an argument--maybe even a winning one, because MVPs are most often built on piles of points. Frankly, I'll take the lockdown defensive / overall team leadership / key moments in key games play of Philana Greene of Hope.

Setting the all-time league record for blocked shots should say something about Carissa's abilities on the defensive end, not to mention sitting at number two in the league in rebounding (number one in defensive rebounding). Labeling her as a one way player is quite unfair.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by the following comment: "with a coach who will let her get them"
She isn't in the top 20 in the league in minutes played so if you are insinuating that her gaudy numbers are a result of the coach playing her to pile up the stats then you probably need to rethink that.

Carissa's not a selfish player, and team scoring is usually pretty balanced--usually about 3 players in double figures. She also passes the ball out of the block well when she's well defended. She has 35 assists on the season.

It just that she's so darn efficient. She has hit nearly 60% of her field goal attempts on the season. When she gets on a roll it's more like 100%. Sometimes her teammates notice and start feeding her the ball. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 18, 2010, 04:09:06 PM
hwbb:  If you go back to last years deserving mvp Ms. Snikkers, it is pretty obvious her ability to shoot, rebound, block shots etc. were important ingredients in making her the obvious choice. 
Personally I thought she would be the MIAA's first 3 time mvp for women's b-ball, but alas that has not come to pass due to injury. 
If you had no problem accepting Ms. Snikkers last year I am curious why you object to another player posting the same results following in her footsteps.
I have no quarrel with Ms. Greene as a player.  I would like her on my team, but I wouldn't give up CV for her. :) 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hwbb on February 18, 2010, 04:24:25 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 18, 2010, 01:40:04 PM
Quote from: ziggy on February 18, 2010, 01:03:09 PM
Quote from: Hwbb on February 18, 2010, 09:25:45 AM
Maybe it's just the cold weather that has fogged up my glasses, because I'm not seeing things as clearly as you are. If the leage MVP means the person with the most gaudy offensive numbers (with a coach who will let her get them or a team that absolutely must have them), then you're probably right--Ms. Verkaik is the MVP followed by Sydney Beckwith of Alma. But are offensive numbers the key stat in MVP consideration? (Are stats even the the key consideration? We'll assume so.)  What about defensive statistics? Assist-to-turnover ratio? Team leadership? (I don't know how to measure leadership, but I know it's awfully important.) Is it coming up big in the biggest games?  Point to Ms. Verkaik's game last night, and you've got an argument--maybe even a winning one, because MVPs are most often built on piles of points. Frankly, I'll take the lockdown defensive / overall team leadership / key moments in key games play of Philana Greene of Hope.

Setting the all-time league record for blocked shots should say something about Carissa's abilities on the defensive end, not to mention sitting at number two in the league in rebounding (number one in defensive rebounding). Labeling her as a one way player is quite unfair.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by the following comment: "with a coach who will let her get them"
She isn't in the top 20 in the league in minutes played so if you are insinuating that her gaudy numbers are a result of the coach playing her to pile up the stats then you probably need to rethink that.

Carissa's not a selfish player, and team scoring is usually pretty balanced--usually about 3 players in double figures. She also passes the ball out of the block well when she's well defended. She has 35 assists on the season.

It just that she's so darn efficient. She has hit nearly 60% of her field goal attempts on the season. When she gets on a roll it's more like 100%. Sometimes her teammates notice and start feeding her the ball. 

It was never my intention to label Ms. Verkaik a one-way player; indeed, I was simply responding to the post of another (who pointed directly to her offensive output as an MVP clincher) by suggesting that other statistics were important. Blocked shots is one of those other statistics, as you rightly stated, and she has a bundle. So, I think, are those statistics that I cited for Ms Greene. Which are most crucial for an MVP? Don't know. All are there for evaluation, and we each make our choices (and, likely, make judgments of value). As for the comment on the coach, it was an observation and not a criticism. The best coaches utilize their players in what each believes is the most optimal way, both in an overall system and in individual games; sometimes, both in philosophy and in game situations, that means distributing points and minutes widely; at other times, it's riding your best player as far as she can take you. Hope and Calvin (and Alma and Albion and the rest, for that matter) have different personel and thus different philosophies. Now, do I think that an MVP is more likely produced from a philosophy and pattern of play that relies more heavily on one superior player? Yes, I happen to think that, right or wrong. Does that mean Ms. Verkaik will win? Or that Ms. Snikkers should or should not have won last year? Both were, and are, deserving. Others were, and are, as well.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 18, 2010, 04:37:53 PM
With a win at Adrian this Saturday Hope will have completed their tour of the MIAA these past three seasons with a record of 47-1....... the best in any 3 year period percentage wise.

Calvin went 35-1 in 96,97 and 98
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 18, 2010, 04:53:18 PM
Quote from: sac on February 18, 2010, 04:37:53 PM
With a win at Adrian this Saturday Hope will have completed their tour of the MIAA these past three seasons with a record of 47-1....... the best in any 3 year period percentage wise.

Calvin went 35-1 in 96,97 and 98

Those are some fantastic numbers.  It is hard not to envy Hope for their record of success.  They have worked hard to build a great  program.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 18, 2010, 07:13:12 PM
Brian Morehouse became Hope's women's coach in 1997, guess what program he was trying to catch.

MIAA Champions
1993    Calvin (11-1)
1994    Alma & Calvin (10-2)
1995    Hope (11-1)
1996    Calvin (12-0)
1997    Calvin (11-1)
1998    Calvin (12-0)
1999    Calvin-Defiance (14-2)


2000      Hope (14-2)
2001   Hope (12-0)
2002   Hope (12-2)
2003   Hope (14-0)
2004   Calvin (13-1)
2005   Albion-Hope (14-2)
2006   Hope (16-0)
2007   Calvin (16-0)
2008   Hope (16-0)
2009   Hope (15-1)
2010   Hope

If I'm not mistaken, Hope has lost 12 MIAA league games since the beginning of the 2000 season.  153-12 or .927
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hwbb on February 18, 2010, 09:50:20 PM
Quote from: realist on February 18, 2010, 04:09:06 PM
hwbb:  If you go back to last years deserving mvp Ms. Snikkers, it is pretty obvious her ability to shoot, rebound, block shots etc. were important ingredients in making her the obvious choice. 
Personally I thought she would be the MIAA's first 3 time mvp for women's b-ball, but alas that has not come to pass due to injury. 
If you had no problem accepting Ms. Snikkers last year I am curious why you object to another player posting the same results following in her footsteps.
I have no quarrel with Ms. Greene as a player.  I would like her on my team, but I wouldn't give up CV for her. :) 

Really good question, realist. Amidst some very similar (and dominating) numbers, here's one small difference--Ms. Snikkers' team won the MIAA championship last season, and Ms. Verkaik's team will not. (They could still win the tournament championship and the automatic NCAA bid.) Which raises the age-old question: should a team's success have any bearing on an individual MVP selection? And if so, how much? Is an MVP the player you would pick first in a pickup game, or is it the best player on the best team, or is it the player who makes the biggest difference on her team, or does it depend? Can a great player on a eighth place team (Beckwith) ever be considered? If so, how much better do her numbers need to be? This is not an advocacy post, for Verkaik or Beckwith or Greene or anyone else. I'm more curious--what do you think? What should be the key criteria for the MVP?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 18, 2010, 10:16:08 PM
Quote from: Hwbb on February 18, 2010, 09:50:20 PM
Quote from: realist on February 18, 2010, 04:09:06 PM
hwbb:  If you go back to last years deserving mvp Ms. Snikkers, it is pretty obvious her ability to shoot, rebound, block shots etc. were important ingredients in making her the obvious choice. 
Personally I thought she would be the MIAA's first 3 time mvp for women's b-ball, but alas that has not come to pass due to injury. 
If you had no problem accepting Ms. Snikkers last year I am curious why you object to another player posting the same results following in her footsteps.
I have no quarrel with Ms. Greene as a player.  I would like her on my team, but I wouldn't give up CV for her. :) 

Really good question, realist. Amidst some very similar (and dominating) numbers, here's one small difference--Ms. Snikkers' team won the MIAA championship last season, and Ms. Verkaik's team will not. (They could still win the tournament championship and the automatic NCAA bid.) Which raises the age-old question: should a team's success have any bearing on an individual MVP selection? And if so, how much? Is an MVP the player you would pick first in a pickup game, or is it the best player on the best team, or is it the player who makes the biggest difference on her team, or does it depend? Can a great player on a eighth place team (Beckwith) ever be considered? If so, how much better do her numbers need to be? This is not an advocacy post, for Verkaik or Beckwith or Greene or anyone else. I'm more curious--what do you think? What should be the key criteria for the MVP?

The same debate has played out on the men's board with many posters believing that Michael McClary's strong numbers (he's first in points and rebounds by a wide margin) require that he be named MVP. But his team is in fifth place and I have a hard time giving an MVP award to a player from a team that far down the list. If you see the MVP award as basically a POY award, then the debate is simpler--merely look for the person with the best league stats. My opinion has always been that the most important player on the best team should have a leg up for the award and should be given the MVP absent a dominating performance by a player on another good team. No matter how you go about it, the decision making is pretty subjective and there is simply no objective method to justify the process.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 18, 2010, 10:34:46 PM
Glad you raised the distinction between MVP and POY (or MOP in the CCIW) - to me they are quite different.

IMO, MVP should almost always be from a team in at least the top half - except in extreme circumstances, how valuable could they have been if the team didn't finish pretty darn high (and first is best)?  While not really this simple, the key question is "how much worse would the team have finished if the player went out for the year just before the conference season started?"

POY (or MOP) is a more individual award.  Team success obviously is a component (how outstanding could they be if the team still went 0-14?), but it is more a matter of "how great IS this player"?

Stats obviously enter in to either award, but should not be the only factor.  Coaches presumably include such things as leadership (unquantifiable) and 'does he make the other players better' (which is more than JUST assists).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on February 19, 2010, 10:36:35 AM
Good feature on Carissa Verkaik:

http://www.wzzm13.com/sports/story.aspx?storyid=118657&catid=128
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 19, 2010, 01:37:29 PM
MVP:  First I start with the individuals that I feel have earned first team all MIAA.  Again this is very subjective, but one must start somewhere.  All MIAA to me means an individual that could start for every team in the conference.   These are the players like in a fantasy league that you would want on your team.  The mvp is the individual you would give up any of the others to get.  In addition to being a stat leader the mvp needs to make the other players on their team better as well.  My personal preference is for the mvp to come from a top tier team, unless the individual is just so exceptional they merit the award.  
I don't have a problem giving the award to a fr. or a so., and just beacuse a person won it before doesn't mean they are a lock to repeat.  
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 19, 2010, 04:17:21 PM
Quote from: almcguirejr on February 19, 2010, 10:36:35 AM
Good feature on Carissa Verkaik:

http://www.wzzm13.com/sports/story.aspx?storyid=118657&catid=128

Interestingly, this report said her high scoring mark at Holland Christian was 26 points in a game. Isn't it a little unusual to do so much better as a freshman in college?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 19, 2010, 04:20:18 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 19, 2010, 04:17:21 PM
Quote from: almcguirejr on February 19, 2010, 10:36:35 AM
Good feature on Carissa Verkaik:

http://www.wzzm13.com/sports/story.aspx?storyid=118657&catid=128

Interestingly, this report said her high scoring mark at Holland Christian was 26 points in a game. Isn't it a little unusual to do so much better as a freshman in college?


26 points in HS is in a 32 minute game, .........26 points is the equivalent of 32 in college.

......yes it is a little unusual.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 19, 2010, 10:19:01 PM
Quote from: sac on February 19, 2010, 04:20:18 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 19, 2010, 04:17:21 PM
Quote from: almcguirejr on February 19, 2010, 10:36:35 AM
Good feature on Carissa Verkaik:

http://www.wzzm13.com/sports/story.aspx?storyid=118657&catid=128

Interestingly, this report said her high scoring mark at Holland Christian was 26 points in a game. Isn't it a little unusual to do so much better as a freshman in college?


26 points in HS is in a 32 minute game, .........26 points is the equivalent of 32 in college.

......yes it is a little unusual.

Also, no shot-clock in the high school game vs 24 seconds in the college game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 20, 2010, 08:14:41 AM
Quote from: almcguirejr on February 19, 2010, 10:36:35 AM
Good feature on Carissa Verkaik:

http://www.wzzm13.com/sports/story.aspx?storyid=118657&catid=128

I hate to bring this up now but if you check out the video at the 55 second mark, you'll see that Carissa clearly walks--switching her pivot foot--before successfully launching a shot from the arc.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 20, 2010, 11:06:31 AM
30-second shot clock in NCAA women's basketball.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 20, 2010, 11:28:30 AM
Quote from: sac on February 19, 2010, 10:19:01 PM
Quote from: sac on February 19, 2010, 04:20:18 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 19, 2010, 04:17:21 PM
Quote from: almcguirejr on February 19, 2010, 10:36:35 AM
Good feature on Carissa Verkaik:

http://www.wzzm13.com/sports/story.aspx?storyid=118657&catid=128

Interestingly, this report said her high scoring mark at Holland Christian was 26 points in a game. Isn't it a little unusual to do so much better as a freshman in college?

26 points in HS is in a 32 minute game, .........26 points is the equivalent of 32 in college.

......yes it is a little unusual.

Also, no shot-clock in the high school game vs 24 seconds in the college game.

There are lots of differences between high school and college -- in the rules, but also in the competition. I just can't remember any cases where high school players step into the MIAA and their point total goes up. Not that I know the high school stats for very many players.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 20, 2010, 12:18:42 PM
I don't think the scoring improvement is all that unusual.  One can make the case she is now surrounded by a much better "supporting cast" than she may have been in h.s.  There is also the very real possibility that she is just now physically maturing, and really learning how to use her size, speed etc. to best advantage.  There is also the aspect of coaching, and CV is not the first post up player to improve her game under Ross.  From what I have read, and heard CV works very hard to constantly improve her game, and this is a product of that work ethic.
Players peak at different times in their playing careers.  Some may reach a peak as jr. or sr. in h.s., and other as fr. or so's in college, and still others continue improving as jr., and sr. in college.  Early bloomers, versus late bloomers.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 20, 2010, 01:15:32 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 20, 2010, 11:28:30 AM
Quote from: sac on February 19, 2010, 10:19:01 PM
Quote from: sac on February 19, 2010, 04:20:18 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 19, 2010, 04:17:21 PM
Quote from: almcguirejr on February 19, 2010, 10:36:35 AM
Good feature on Carissa Verkaik:

http://www.wzzm13.com/sports/story.aspx?storyid=118657&catid=128

Interestingly, this report said her high scoring mark at Holland Christian was 26 points in a game. Isn't it a little unusual to do so much better as a freshman in college?

26 points in HS is in a 32 minute game, .........26 points is the equivalent of 32 in college.

......yes it is a little unusual.

Also, no shot-clock in the high school game vs 24 seconds in the college game.

There are lots of differences between high school and college -- in the rules, but also in the competition. I just can't remember any cases where high school players step into the MIAA and their point total goes up. Not that I know the high school stats for very many players.



What Verkaik has done as a college freshmen is nothing short of remarkable. I saw her play about a dozen times when she was in high school (my daughter faced Carissa during Verkaik's first year on the Holland Christian varsity) and followed her development over a four year prep career. She got better every year. When I heard that John Ross landed her I knew she would be an impact player in the MIAA and would eventually become a double digit scorer. But I thought Verkaik's first year impact would largely be on defense and the boards. Irrespective of your talent level, to be the high scorer on any team you need to viewed by your fellow players and your coach as the first scoring option. That doesn't normally happen to a college freshmen, especially when you realize that Calvin is a respectable team even without Carissa in the lineup.

At the risk of being accused of sexism (probably accurately) I can also tell you that my experience with female athletes convinces me that it's more challenging for a female player than a male player to be suddenly thrust into a role of such prominence. On a men's team, the players will normally accept you as a player and a person if they think you can help them win. It's great if fellow players like you, but even if you're a jerk most men's teams can play with the jerk if he simply helps the team win. It's my experience that if the women on your team don't like you, your chances of getting the ball enough to score 46 points in a game is--well, pretty much zero. Generally speaking, women have to like their teammate before they can play effectively play with her. The fact that Calvin's upperclassmen (or women) seem more than happy to let Verkaik take the stage, speaks volumes about her--and them.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 20, 2010, 02:52:05 PM
To get some perspective on CV I took a look back at C. Snikkers.  I could not find a stat sheet for her fr. year.  Checking on the Hope site I did not find her listed in any category as a record setting top contributor her first year.
She (CS) scored 431 points in 30 games last year, and pulled down 242 rebounds.
CV has 445 points in 24 games ytd, and 231 rebounds. 

Yes, it is indeed remarkable the fr. CV has been able to put up numbers equal to what last years mvp did as a so. 
Don't get me wrong I have tremendous respect for CS, and what she has done, and her ability.  I just didn't expect we would see another player of her caliber come along this quickly. 
I know it is dangerous to compare two players from different teams as the dynamics of each team are unique.  I don't doubt for a second that CS would have much better stats should it be necessary for her to play more.   Her individual accomplishments are reduced in favor of team accomplishments.

A quick check of CV's stats as a fr. versus Lisa Winkle's as a fr. show CV has greatly surpassed what it took for a fr. to make All MIAA that year.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 20, 2010, 02:59:45 PM
Carrie missed 6 games of the MIAA season with a similar foot injury to this year her Freshmen year.

She averaged 7.4 pts and 5.9 rebounds while playing 15 mins per game overall.  Carrie only started 2 games as a Freshmen.

........she also played on a stacked team with 4 very talented Seniors.  There simply wasn't room in the starting 5, even for someone of her talents.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 20, 2010, 05:26:29 PM
Thanks for the stats, and reminding me of her injury as a fr.  It is really quite a feat for Hope to have so much talent stacked up they can take the time to develop them as players before being thrown into battle.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 20, 2010, 05:29:47 PM
Wow, the last game of the season seems to result in some surprising results quite often.

Calvin defeated Alma 65-62.

The Hope-Adrian score is 54-54 with 53 seconds left. (Though the game is probably done --the live stats seem stuck.)

Snikkers has 20 points on 22 shots -- two more shots than it took Verkaik to reach 46 last game.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 20, 2010, 05:37:18 PM
Hope won the game 58-56.
Great way to finish a 16-0 season.  Now they have a fresh experience of a close game.
CS had 23 points, 2 blocks, and 12 rebounds in 26 minutes.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on February 20, 2010, 05:57:46 PM
Whew!  That was too close for comfort.  Just a quick look at the stats and it looks like poor shooting--33.3%--from Hope was what kept it so close.  They certainly had their chances (69 shots, only 14 from 3) and limited Adrian (51 shots, 13 from 3), but they just couldn't make 'em count.  Just for fun, I looked at the stats from Calvin's game there and found very similar stats.  Calvin shot 34.4% with 64 shots (13 from 3) and limited Adrian to only 50 shots (8 from 3).  That game wasn't as close, because that time Adrian also shot only 36%, while today they managed to make 45.1%.

But, a win is a win.  Maybe they can chalk this one up to character-building.   ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 22, 2010, 07:10:00 AM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on February 20, 2010, 05:57:46 PM
Whew!  That was too close for comfort.  Just a quick look at the stats and it looks like poor shooting--33.3%--from Hope was what kept it so close.  They certainly had their chances (69 shots, only 14 from 3) and limited Adrian (51 shots, 13 from 3), but they just couldn't make 'em count.  Just for fun, I looked at the stats from Calvin's game there and found very similar stats.  Calvin shot 34.4% with 64 shots (13 from 3) and limited Adrian to only 50 shots (8 from 3).  That game wasn't as close, because that time Adrian also shot only 36%, while today they managed to make 45.1%.

Of course, Verkaik blocked 8 of the 50 shots that Adrian put up. That'll wreak havoc on any team's shooting percentage.  ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 22, 2010, 02:22:01 PM
Congrats to Ms. Verkiak for being pow. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on February 23, 2010, 10:16:39 PM
1st round results

Hope 76 Alma 52
Calvin 76 Olivet 57
St Mary's 61 Albion 59
Adrian 62 Trine 57

Top 4 seeds move on
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 23, 2010, 10:21:47 PM
Hope and Calvin played remarkably similar games.  When I checked livestats near halftime, Hope was up 41-14, Calvin 41-22.   

I don't know what Calvin's biggest lead was but Hope led by 38 with a little over 12 minutes to go.

In the previous meetings for the semi-final matchups.......

@Hope 77 Adrian 53
Hope 58 @Adrian 56

@Calvin 64  St. Mary's 58
Calvin 67  @St. Mary's 57

On Thursday

Adrian @ Hope
St. Mary's @ Calvin
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 23, 2010, 11:12:51 PM
Calvin had a 28 pt. lead 4 times in the 2nd half.
Verkiak 15 pts. 9 rebounds, and 4 blocks in 21 minutes.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 24, 2010, 08:32:38 AM
Quote from: realist on February 23, 2010, 11:12:51 PM
Calvin had a 28 pt. lead 4 times in the 2nd half.
Verkiak 15 pts. 9 rebounds, and 4 blocks in 21 minutes.

I'll see your Verkaik, and raise you a Snikkers

15 points, 8 rebounds, 2 blocks and 2 steals in 17 minutes    8-)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on February 24, 2010, 10:12:02 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 24, 2010, 08:32:38 AM
Quote from: realist on February 23, 2010, 11:12:51 PM
Calvin had a 28 pt. lead 4 times in the 2nd half.
Verkiak 15 pts. 9 rebounds, and 4 blocks in 21 minutes.

I'll see your Verkaik, and raise you a Snikkers

15 points, 8 rebounds, 2 blocks and 2 steals in 17 minutes    8-)

They are both really, really good players.  No one player, however, has had more individual impact on her team's success than Carissa.  She is a game changer and the most worthy player for league MVP this year.  I wouldn't be disappointed if the title is shared, but excluding Verkaik would be gross negligence.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on February 24, 2010, 10:53:32 AM
Nice article from the Holland Sentinel:


http://www.hollandsentinel.com/sports/sports_hope/x1487806491/MIAA-Tournament-preview-Hopes-Greene-should-get-nod-as-league-MVP
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 24, 2010, 11:23:01 AM
Quote from: gohope on February 24, 2010, 10:53:32 AM
Nice article from the Holland Sentinel:


http://www.hollandsentinel.com/sports/sports_hope/x1487806491/MIAA-Tournament-preview-Hopes-Greene-should-get-nod-as-league-MVP

I wonder if tomorrow Mr. Babbitt will write an article on how John Mantel is obviously the men's MIAA mvp becuase he is the mvp on the team that won the men's MIAA? ;) :P :P :P ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 24, 2010, 11:23:32 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 24, 2010, 08:32:38 AM
Quote from: realist on February 23, 2010, 11:12:51 PM
Calvin had a 28 pt. lead 4 times in the 2nd half.
Verkiak 15 pts. 9 rebounds, and 4 blocks in 21 minutes.

I'll see your Verkaik, and raise you a Snikkers

15 points, 8 rebounds, 2 blocks and 2 steals in 17 minutes    8-)

Then again, Snikkers took 14 shots in those 17 minutes to score her 15 points. Verkaik scored her 15 points with only 10 shots. That's 1.5 points per shot vs. 1.1.


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 24, 2010, 11:32:46 AM
Quote from: Alan Babbitt: www.hollandsentinel.com/sports/sports_hope/x1487806491/MIAA-Tournament-preview-Hopes-Greene-should-get-nod-as-league-MVPThe right pick for this season is Greene. She’s had the MIAA’s most productive season

Really? You don't say much to convince me of that, Alan.

Quote from: Alan BabbittVerkaik more than doubled Greene in scoring average at 18.5 points per MIAA game to 8.3

Quote from: Alan BabbittVerkaik also has grabbed three more rebounds per game

Quote from: Alan BabbittVerkaik is also the MIAA’s best shotblocker, by far.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 24, 2010, 11:48:21 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 24, 2010, 11:23:32 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 24, 2010, 08:32:38 AM
Quote from: realist on February 23, 2010, 11:12:51 PM
Calvin had a 28 pt. lead 4 times in the 2nd half.
Verkiak 15 pts. 9 rebounds, and 4 blocks in 21 minutes.

I'll see your Verkaik, and raise you a Snikkers

15 points, 8 rebounds, 2 blocks and 2 steals in 17 minutes    8-)

Then again, Snikkers took 14 shots in those 17 minutes to score her 15 points. Verkaik scored her 15 points with only 10 shots. That's 1.5 points per shot vs. 1.1.

You're right of course - forgive me for having the audacity of even thinking of typing the name of any other player.

For any new posters reading this, let me welcome you to the "Bow at the feet of Carrisa Verkaik" board.       
:P     ::)      :P 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 24, 2010, 12:09:37 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 24, 2010, 11:48:21 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 24, 2010, 11:23:32 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 24, 2010, 08:32:38 AM
Quote from: realist on February 23, 2010, 11:12:51 PM
Calvin had a 28 pt. lead 4 times in the 2nd half.
Verkiak 15 pts. 9 rebounds, and 4 blocks in 21 minutes.

I'll see your Verkaik, and raise you a Snikkers

15 points, 8 rebounds, 2 blocks and 2 steals in 17 minutes    8-)

Then again, Snikkers took 14 shots in those 17 minutes to score her 15 points. Verkaik scored her 15 points with only 10 shots. That's 1.5 points per shot vs. 1.1.

You're right of course - forgive me for having the audacity of even thinking of typing the name of any other player.

For any new posters reading this, let me welcome you to the "Bow at the feet of Carrisa Verkaik" board.      
:P     ::)      :P  

Oh dear, I seem to have caused offense by raising a valid counter-argument. Sorry about that!  ;)

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 24, 2010, 12:33:12 PM
                                       |---TOTAL---| |---3-PTS---|               |----REBOUNDS----|
## Player              GP-GS  Min--Avg  FG-FGA   Pct 3FG-FGA   Pct  FT-FTA   Pct  Off Def  Tot  Avg  PF FO   A  TO Blk Stl  Pts  Avg
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
30 Carrie Snikkers.... 18-17  322 17.9  87-176  .494  11-37   .297  39-55   .709   39  88  127  7.1  20  0  11  24  51  35  224 12.4
04 Philana Greene..... 26-26  544 20.9  97-192  .505   3-10   .300  36-53   .679   72  81  153  5.9  31  0  85  60  19  87  233  9.0
32 Carissa VerKaik.... 26-26  681 26.2 189-328  .576  10-21   .476  90-109  .826   78 170  248  9.5  42  1  39  64  93  11  478 18.4

Decide for yourself which player you would want on your team.  Me, selfish oaf that I am, want all three. :D  



     
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 24, 2010, 12:39:36 PM
The 'Teletype' function has become a good friend of mine. Makes monospaced tables easier to read.

Quote from: realist on February 24, 2010, 12:33:12 PM
                                      |---TOTAL---| |---3-PTS---|               |----REBOUNDS----|
## Player              GP-GS  Min--Avg  FG-FGA   Pct 3FG-FGA   Pct  FT-FTA   Pct  Off Def  Tot  Avg  PF FO   A  TO Blk Stl  Pts  Avg
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
30 Carrie Snikkers.... 18-17  322 17.9  87-176  .494  11-37   .297  39-55   .709   39  88  127  7.1  20  0  11  24  51  35  224 12.4
04 Philana Greene..... 26-26  544 20.9  97-192  .505   3-10   .300  36-53   .679   72  81  153  5.9  31  0  85  60  19  87  233  9.0
32 Carissa VerKaik.... 26-26  681 26.2 189-328  .576  10-21   .476  90-109  .826   78 170  248  9.5  42  1  39  64  93  11  478 18.4


...and for the record, I'll take Verkaik especially since I get three more years out of her.

IMO, the MVP discussion starts and ends with only one name being discussed this season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 24, 2010, 12:50:41 PM
KS:  Thanks for introducing me to my new BFF ;D teletype. ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hwbb on February 24, 2010, 01:16:41 PM
Quote from: wiz on February 24, 2010, 10:12:02 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 24, 2010, 08:32:38 AM
Quote from: realist on February 23, 2010, 11:12:51 PM
Calvin had a 28 pt. lead 4 times in the 2nd half.
Verkiak 15 pts. 9 rebounds, and 4 blocks in 21 minutes.

I'll see your Verkaik, and raise you a Snikkers

15 points, 8 rebounds, 2 blocks and 2 steals in 17 minutes    8-)

They are both really, really good players.  No one player, however, has had more individual impact on her team's success than Carissa.  She is a game changer and the most worthy player for league MVP this year.  I wouldn't be disappointed if the title is shared, but excluding Verkaik would be gross negligence.

Hmmm, quite the kerfuffle the last hour or so. I wonder if where you stand on the MVP thing depends on (a) what team you support, and/or (b) how you value and prioritize certain statistics. Scoring, rebounds, blocked shots--those are traditionally the most public and pointed-to of statistics, and most often the criteria for MVP, and Ms. Verkaik stands out in all three. It's more difficult to measure the specific value of a steal or an assist, areas where Ms. Greene stands out, even though there is real and tanglible value to both. Or the value of being the best defender on a team its coach calls one of his best defensive teams ever. Or even the issue of team leadership--oh, my goodness, how in the world do you judge that? Are the most visible statistics the most important? If so, then the argument for Ms. Verkaik is  pretty solid. I'm admittedly still not as convinced. In a team sport, some of those other, "softer" categories still seem awfully important. I'll quickly agree that both are really, really good players. I'm not yet ready to sign onto "most worthy" or "gross negligence," however; I don't think it's that obvious.

For what it's worth, however, I would cast my vote for Mantel (over McClary and Bunn) for men's MVP, in part based on some of those same intangibles.



Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 24, 2010, 01:38:03 PM
Last year, on the men's side, Jesse Reimink had the best overall stats in the conference and he won the award even though his team finished 2nd in the league race. I couldn't complain because his importance to his team was undeniable. This year, Verkaik's impact and her stats are just as dominating but I suspect she won't win--not because she's not worthy but because she's a freshmen. I know it's not a lifetime achievement award but being a key player on the league's best team for 4 years raises your profile and Greene is a key player. Although Carissa's stats are better, Greene would score more if her team wasn't so doggone balanced.

The MVP award would go to Snikkers for the second straight year but she simply missed too many games. She only played in 10 conference games and a couple of those were games where she played less than 10 minutes. Since the award is based on results in league play, all that missed time eliminates Snikkers. But when Hope needed her production in a tough game, she showed everyone who that person is when she "Carried" her team to victory at Adrian on Saturday.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on February 24, 2010, 01:55:19 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 24, 2010, 11:32:46 AM
Quote from: Alan Babbitt: www.hollandsentinel.com/sports/sports_hope/x1487806491/MIAA-Tournament-preview-Hopes-Greene-should-get-nod-as-league-MVPThe right pick for this season is Greene. She's had the MIAA's most productive season

Really? You don't say much to convince me of that, Alan.

Quote from: Alan BabbittVerkaik more than doubled Greene in scoring average at 18.5 points per MIAA game to 8.3

Quote from: Alan BabbittVerkaik also has grabbed three more rebounds per game

Quote from: Alan BabbittVerkaik is also the MIAA's best shotblocker, by far.
To be fair to Babbit ( :-\ ), if you put the quotes back into context, and use the full sentences, they make a bit more sense.

"Verkaik more than doubled Greene in scoring..." is continued with "...but she plays in a system that is focused around her and gets to play five more minutes per game."  This is a point some of us not wearing maroon and gold glasses have raised here before.  He goes on to point out that "Hope utilizes a deeper bench and goes [to] it more as it has beaten MIAA opponents by a league-best 22.1 points per game — nine more than Calvin — further limiting opportunities for Greene."

"Verkaik also has grabbed three more rebounds per game..." ends with "...but she is nearly dead-even with
Greene on the offensive glass."  That's pretty good considering the disparity in the amount of time each of them spends in the game, and the slim difference in their sooting percentage.  (Remember, going deep into the bench more likely means taking out those who have earned starting spots by being better scorers, too.)

For the third point, he goes to the sometimes-suspect comparing of different statistical categories:
"Verkaik is also the MIAA's best shotblocker, by far.  Greene, however, dominates three other categories over Verkaik— assists, assist-to-turnover ratio and steals."  That brings up the point that these are two very different players, so straight comparisons of like statistical categories overlooks what each player can really bring to the table.

It's still an open debate, and it will be interesting to see who gets the honor.  The arguements for Greene or Verkaik are compelling, when a clear light is shone on both.  I have to admit, though, that my orange and blue glasses may be playing some role in whom I might choose.   ;)  As for wanting all three of the players on your team, realist, two out of three ain't bad.    :D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on February 24, 2010, 01:59:36 PM
And by the way, to the karma fairy who is hitting me once a day for the past week, even when I don't post, if you have something to say, grow up and just say it.  Or if you're really that big a chicken, just send your thoughts in a personal note and get it over with.   :-*   ::)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 24, 2010, 02:27:51 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 24, 2010, 12:09:37 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 24, 2010, 11:48:21 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 24, 2010, 11:23:32 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 24, 2010, 08:32:38 AM
Quote from: realist on February 23, 2010, 11:12:51 PM
Calvin had a 28 pt. lead 4 times in the 2nd half.
Verkiak 15 pts. 9 rebounds, and 4 blocks in 21 minutes.

I'll see your Verkaik, and raise you a Snikkers

15 points, 8 rebounds, 2 blocks and 2 steals in 17 minutes    8-)

Then again, Snikkers took 14 shots in those 17 minutes to score her 15 points. Verkaik scored her 15 points with only 10 shots. That's 1.5 points per shot vs. 1.1.

You're right of course - forgive me for having the audacity of even thinking of typing the name of any other player.

For any new posters reading this, let me welcome you to the "Bow at the feet of Carrisa Verkaik" board.      
:P     ::)      :P  

Oh dear, I seem to have caused offense by raising a valid counter-argument. Sorry about that!  ;)

I have no problem with counter-arguments.  I'm also aware that you can make statistics say whatever you want (I have an example below) 

The point I was trying to make is that I've just grown tired of the vast majority of posts being about a single player.  Is she a phenomenal player, yes, but I suspect the rest of the Calvin team has also contributed to their success (a great season by any measure).  In reading this board you would never know they existed. 

<an example of a way to make the statistics support Carrie's contribution as better>
Point per minute

CS - .882
CV - .714
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 24, 2010, 02:33:18 PM
Philana      Carissa
21.4   min   26.0
8.3    ppg   15.8
5.3    reb   8.6
3.2    asst  1.3
3.8    stl   0.3
0.7    blk   3.8


We can attempt compare statistics by turning these numbers into points by inventing the formula:

Effective Points = points + (2 x assists) + ([(reb - (reb x TeamReb%)) + (blk x TeamReb%) + steals] x TeamEffFG%)

This calculation gives:

PG: 20.5 effective points per game
CV: 26.1 effective points per game

And adjusting PG's time up to 26.0 minutes per game would give her 24.9 effective points per game. Much closer to CV.

...And I don't mean to imply that statistics are the sole determining factor of the MVP race, just thought it would be interesting to try to compare stats.

...And I am aware that this formula probably grossly overvalues assists.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 24, 2010, 02:37:36 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on February 24, 2010, 01:55:19 PM

As for wanting all three of the players on your team, realist, two out of three ain't bad.    :D

Sounds like Erm's ready to change his board name to Meatloaf. 8-)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 24, 2010, 02:49:17 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on February 24, 2010, 01:55:19 PM
"Verkaik more than doubled Greene in scoring..." is continued with "...but she plays in a system that is focused around her and gets to play five more minutes per game."  This is a point some of us not wearing maroon and gold glasses have raised here before.  He goes on to point out that "Hope utilizes a deeper bench and goes [to] it more as it has beaten MIAA opponents by a league-best 22.1 points per game — nine more than Calvin — further limiting opportunities for Greene."

So what you're saying here is that Philana is less valuable to her team than Carissa is. Her value on Hope's squad is diminished because they have a deeper bench and have more scoring options.

Take away Carissa, and what is Calvin's record?

Take away Philana, and what is Hope's record?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on February 24, 2010, 02:54:12 PM
I'm surprised we haven't gotten the "Where's your women's banner" argument  yet.  lol
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on February 24, 2010, 02:56:37 PM
Quote from: oldknight on February 24, 2010, 02:37:36 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on February 24, 2010, 01:55:19 PM

As for wanting all three of the players on your team, realist, two out of three ain't bad.    :D

Sounds like Erm's ready to change his board name to Meatloaf. 8-)

+k to ok for the pick-up
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 24, 2010, 03:03:34 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 24, 2010, 02:33:18 PM
Philana      Carissa
21.4   min   26.0
8.3    ppg   15.8
5.3    reb   8.6
3.2    asst  1.3
3.8    stl   0.3
0.7    blk   3.8


We can attempt compare statistics by turning these numbers into points by inventing the formula:

Effective Points = points + (2 x assists) + ([(reb - (reb x TeamReb%)) + (blk x TeamReb%) + steals] x TeamEffFG%)

This calculation gives:

PG: 20.5 effective points per game
CV: 26.1 effective points per game

And adjusting PG's time up to 26.0 minutes per game would give her 24.9 effective points per game. Much closer to CV.

...And I don't mean to imply that statistics are the sole determining factor of the MVP race, just thought it would be interesting to try to compare stats.

...And I am aware that this formula probably grossly overvalues assists.

Why does it grossly overvalue assists.  By definition an assist leads to points, and since some percentage of them would be 3 pointers, seems like your under-estimating their value.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 24, 2010, 03:06:40 PM
But I also don't consider the trips down the floor that would have also resulted in points had the specific assist not been made.

There's probably some sort of points per possession correction that should be made. Anyway, I felt like 2 points was more than fair for assists. Maybe I'm wrong.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 24, 2010, 03:11:15 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 24, 2010, 03:06:40 PM
But I also don't consider the trips down the floor that would have also resulted in points had the specific assist not been made.

There's probably some sort of points per possession correction that should be made. Anyway, I felt like 2 points was more than fair for assists. Maybe I'm wrong.

That is probably more than balanced by the perfect pass that would have been an assist if only the danged shooter hadn't missed the shot! ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 24, 2010, 03:16:57 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 24, 2010, 03:11:15 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 24, 2010, 03:06:40 PM
But I also don't consider the trips down the floor that would have also resulted in points had the specific assist not been made.

There's probably some sort of points per possession correction that should be made. Anyway, I felt like 2 points was more than fair for assists. Maybe I'm wrong.

That is probably more than balanced by the perfect pass that would have been an assist if only the danged shooter hadn't missed the shot! ;)

Or dropped the pass, or traveled...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 24, 2010, 03:18:32 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 24, 2010, 03:11:15 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 24, 2010, 03:06:40 PM
But I also don't consider the trips down the floor that would have also resulted in points had the specific assist not been made.

There's probably some sort of points per possession correction that should be made. Anyway, I felt like 2 points was more than fair for assists. Maybe I'm wrong.

That is probably more than balanced by the perfect pass that would have been an assist if only the danged shooter hadn't missed the shot! ;)

Which is exaclty why two full points probably shouldn't be credited for an assist. A teammate's contribution is required to convert the points. This is especially true of a three point attempt.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on February 24, 2010, 03:22:52 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 24, 2010, 02:49:17 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on February 24, 2010, 01:55:19 PM
"Verkaik more than doubled Greene in scoring..." is continued with "...but she plays in a system that is focused around her and gets to play five more minutes per game."  This is a point some of us not wearing maroon and gold glasses have raised here before.  He goes on to point out that "Hope utilizes a deeper bench and goes [to] it more as it has beaten MIAA opponents by a league-best 22.1 points per game — nine more than Calvin — further limiting opportunities for Greene."

So what you're saying here is that Philana is less valuable to her team than Carissa is. Her value on Hope's squad is diminished because they have a deeper bench and have more scoring options.

Take away Carissa, and what is Calvin's record?

Take away Philana, and what is Hope's record?

Not what I'm saying...it's a Babbit quote, remember?  I just thought your creative editing (slicing and dicing) was a little one-sided.  But then, no one in this conversation is really bucking for a pulitzer in journalism, are we?

If voters stick strictly to the definition you are using here, then Carissa should have been given the award before this week.  Maybe well before.  Just responding to what you're saying.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 24, 2010, 03:26:36 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on February 24, 2010, 03:22:52 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 24, 2010, 02:49:17 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on February 24, 2010, 01:55:19 PM
"Verkaik more than doubled Greene in scoring..." is continued with "...but she plays in a system that is focused around her and gets to play five more minutes per game."  This is a point some of us not wearing maroon and gold glasses have raised here before.  He goes on to point out that "Hope utilizes a deeper bench and goes [to] it more as it has beaten MIAA opponents by a league-best 22.1 points per game — nine more than Calvin — further limiting opportunities for Greene."

So what you're saying here is that Philana is less valuable to her team than Carissa is. Her value on Hope's squad is diminished because they have a deeper bench and have more scoring options.

Take away Carissa, and what is Calvin's record?

Take away Philana, and what is Hope's record?

Not what I'm saying...it's a Babbit quote, remember?  I just thought your creative editing (slicing and dicing) was a little one-sided.  But then, no one in this conversation is really bucking for a pulitzer in journalism, are we?

If voters stick strictly to the definition you are using here, then Carissa should have been given the award before this week.  Maybe well before.  Just responding to what you're saying.

It is what you're saying...bolded is an Erm Schmigget quote, remember?

What you said is that you've said the same things Babbitt's said about less playing time.

...And for the record, I only sliced -- never diced.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on February 24, 2010, 03:31:00 PM
Haven't been this many posts on this site in one day for a long time.  Maybe not even in the history of DIII women's basketball.  Anyway, at 10:12 this morning I tried to get a little discussion going.  Glad to see we're all able to talk with each other and that there isn't any hatred or nose punching like that stuff that goes on at the men's board.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on February 24, 2010, 03:36:08 PM
Quote from: wiz on February 24, 2010, 03:31:00 PM
Haven't been this many posts on this site in one day for a long time.  Maybe not even in the history of DIII women's basketball.  Anyway, at 10:12 this morning I tried to get a little discussion going.  Glad to see we're all able to talk with each other and that there isn't any hatred or nose punching like that stuff that goes on at the men's board.

Thanks for the smile...and the topic.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on February 24, 2010, 04:10:04 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 24, 2010, 03:26:36 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on February 24, 2010, 03:22:52 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 24, 2010, 02:49:17 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on February 24, 2010, 01:55:19 PM
"Verkaik more than doubled Greene in scoring..." is continued with "...but she plays in a system that is focused around her and gets to play five more minutes per game."  This is a point some of us not wearing maroon and gold glasses have raised here before.  He goes on to point out that "Hope utilizes a deeper bench and goes [to] it more as it has beaten MIAA opponents by a league-best 22.1 points per game — nine more than Calvin — further limiting opportunities for Greene."

So what you're saying here is that Philana is less valuable to her team than Carissa is. Her value on Hope's squad is diminished because they have a deeper bench and have more scoring options.

Take away Carissa, and what is Calvin's record?

Take away Philana, and what is Hope's record?

Not what I'm saying...it's a Babbit quote, remember?  I just thought your creative editing (slicing and dicing) was a little one-sided.  But then, no one in this conversation is really bucking for a pulitzer in journalism, are we?

If voters stick strictly to the definition you are using here, then Carissa should have been given the award before this week.  Maybe well before.  Just responding to what you're saying.

It is what you're saying...bolded is an Erm Schmigget quote, remember?

What you said is that you've said the same things Babbitt's said about less playing time.

...And for the record, I only sliced -- never diced.


You're putting words in my mouth.  Where did I say that I was the one who made the point before?  If you were talking to Caissa and she said "Some of us on the team are shorter than 6' tall," would you jump to the conclusion that she was referring to herself?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 24, 2010, 04:27:21 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on February 24, 2010, 04:10:04 PM
You're putting words in my mouth.  Where did I say that I was the one who made the point before?  If you were talking to Caissa and she said "Some of us on the team are shorter than 6' tall," would you jump to the conclusion that she was referring to herself?

Yes
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on February 24, 2010, 04:33:14 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 24, 2010, 04:27:21 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on February 24, 2010, 04:10:04 PM
You're putting words in my mouth.  Where did I say that I was the one who made the point before?  If you were talking to Caissa and she said "Some of us on the team are shorter than 6' tall," would you jump to the conclusion that she was referring to herself?

Yes

Stick to numbers.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 24, 2010, 04:56:26 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 24, 2010, 02:27:51 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 24, 2010, 12:09:37 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 24, 2010, 11:48:21 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 24, 2010, 11:23:32 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 24, 2010, 08:32:38 AM
Quote from: realist on February 23, 2010, 11:12:51 PM
Calvin had a 28 pt. lead 4 times in the 2nd half.
Verkiak 15 pts. 9 rebounds, and 4 blocks in 21 minutes.

I'll see your Verkaik, and raise you a Snikkers

15 points, 8 rebounds, 2 blocks and 2 steals in 17 minutes    8-)

Then again, Snikkers took 14 shots in those 17 minutes to score her 15 points. Verkaik scored her 15 points with only 10 shots. That's 1.5 points per shot vs. 1.1.

You're right of course - forgive me for having the audacity of even thinking of typing the name of any other player.

For any new posters reading this, let me welcome you to the "Bow at the feet of Carrisa Verkaik" board.      
:P     ::)      :P  

Oh dear, I seem to have caused offense by raising a valid counter-argument. Sorry about that!  ;)

I have no problem with counter-arguments.  I'm also aware that you can make statistics say whatever you want (I have an example below) 

The point I was trying to make is that I've just grown tired of the vast majority of posts being about a single player.  Is she a phenomenal player, yes, but I suspect the rest of the Calvin team has also contributed to their success (a great season by any measure).  In reading this board you would never know they existed. 

<an example of a way to make the statistics support Carrie's contribution as better>
Point per minute

CS - .882
CV - .714

Points per minute as a stat is all well and good, though it really matters more to the team's offense how many points you get per shot. If I have to put up 40 shots to get my 20 points, the team would probably be better off giving the ball to someone else.

But the problem with points per minute stats is that the assumption you could continue to score points at that rate if you played more minutes isn't necessarily true. Maybe defenses would get better at stopping a player. Maybe the player doesn't have the conditioning to play that hard for many more minutes.

In Carrie's case I'm sure her playing time is limited by being taken out when the team is way ahead. That's true for Carissa as well, though perhaps to a lesser extent. However, I don't think you can assume that more PT wouldn't decrease her efficiency.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 24, 2010, 05:02:06 PM
In a similar way, though, you can't assume that increased time would result in a decrease in efficieny for any particular player. Especially when we're talking about players who received comparatively significant minutes.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 24, 2010, 05:11:04 PM
KS beat me to the obvious response. :D

The debate here is very reminiscent of the debate that's been occurring on the CCIW board between Lyndsie Long and Christina Solari partisans.  As with the candidates here, both outstanding players, but with significantly different PT and team needs (Christina is in the Carrie or Philana role).  IWU (like Hope) blows out a majority of opponents, and has such a wealth of talent that high scoring from any given player is just not needed.

My conclusion for both CCIW and MIAA would be that IF the award was MVP (i.e., how much worse would the team be if the player disappeared), Long and Verkaik would be the obvious winners.  But for POY (or MOP in the CCIW) the question is much less clear.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on February 24, 2010, 05:17:42 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 24, 2010, 05:11:04 PM
KS beat me to the obvious response. :D

The debate here is very reminiscent of the debate that's been occurring on the CCIW board between Lyndsie Long and Christina Solari partisans.  As with the candidates here, both outstanding players, but with significantly different PT and team needs (Christina is in the Carrie or Philana role).  IWU (like Hope) blows out a majority of opponents, and has such a wealth of talent that high scoring from any given player is just not needed.

My conclusion for both CCIW and MIAA would be that IF the award was MVP (i.e., how much worse would the team be if the player disappeared), Long and Verkaik would be the obvious winners.  But for POY (or MOP in the CCIW) the question is much less clear.

Carissa it is then.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 24, 2010, 05:18:31 PM
And I've just learned on the men's board that the MIAA award IS MVP, not POY - true?

If so, from the discussion here, I'd probably have to go with Carissa.  Hope could lose any ONE player and still be a nationally top 10 team; without implying that the rest of Calvin's squad is a bunch of nobodies, it would seem the loss of Verkaik would be a much more serious blow.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 24, 2010, 05:37:06 PM
Its MVP by name, but I'm not so sure they've stuck to strickly choosing the 'most valuable player' by definition and have treated it as more of a most outstanding player award.

Unlike on the men's side, the women have named several MVP's who did not win the conference championship.

2000     Lisa Hoekstra, Hope
2001   Amanda Kerkstra, Hope
2002   Niki Grubb, Kalamazoo
2003   Amanda Kerkstra, Hope
2004   Karen Hall, Alma
2005   Sarah Caskey, Albion
2006   Lisa Winkle, Calvin & Bria Ebels, Hope
2007   Lisa Winkle, Calvin
2008   Alison Kessler, Saint Mary's
2009   Carrie Snikkers, Hope
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on February 24, 2010, 05:39:32 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 24, 2010, 05:11:04 PM
KS beat me to the obvious response. :D

The debate here is very reminiscent of the debate that's been occurring on the CCIW board between Lyndsie Long and Christina Solari partisans.  As with the candidates here, both outstanding players, but with significantly different PT and team needs (Christina is in the Carrie or Philana role).  IWU (like Hope) blows out a majority of opponents, and has such a wealth of talent that high scoring from any given player is just not needed.

My conclusion for both CCIW and MIAA would be that IF the award was MVP (i.e., how much worse would the team be if the player disappeared), Long and Verkaik would be the obvious winners.  But for POY (or MOP in the CCIW) the question is much less clear.

This is also part of the reason why good players on bad teams don't get consideration.  Case in point:  Nyemade Cooper from Kalamazoo had an excellent year, statistically, last year (08-09).  She averaged 15.3 pts and 9.1 rebs per game, 1 each better than Snikkers, but how much worse would her team be without her?  Well, at 0-23 overall, not much.  Nothin' from nothin' leaves nothin', as they say.   :o
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 24, 2010, 05:45:02 PM
Quote from: sac on February 24, 2010, 05:37:06 PM
Its MVP by name, but I'm not so sure they've stuck to strickly choosing the 'most valuable player' by definition and have treated it as more of a most outstanding player award.

Unlike on the men's side, the women have named several MVP's who did not win the conference championship.

2000     Lisa Hoekstra, Hope
2001   Amanda Kerkstra, Hope
2002   Niki Grubb, Kalamazoo
2003   Amanda Kerkstra, Hope
2004   Karen Hall, Alma
2005   Sarah Caskey, Albion
2006   Lisa Winkle, Calvin & Bria Ebels, Hope
2007   Lisa Winkle, Calvin
2008   Alison Kessler, Saint Mary's
2009   Carrie Snikkers, Hope

Grubb 02, Hall, 04, and Kessler 08 were all scoring champions when they won the mvp.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 24, 2010, 07:50:32 PM
I've discussed this on the CCIW board, but wondered what you folks think.

To me, there is a definite difference between MVP and MOP (or POY).  To oversimplify just a bit, MVP boils down to a single question: if the player had a season-ending injury just before the conference season began, how much worse would the team have done?  (My hunch is that Hope is so loaded they still might have finished first absent ANY ONE player; would Calvin still be a serious contender absent Verkaik?)

MOP or POY is, to me, a more personal award.  Clearly team success is a factor (barring extreme cases, how outstanding could a player be if the team still finished in the basement), but it comes down (more) to stats and (individual) intangibles.  While an MVP should (nearly) always come from a serious contender, MOP could fairly readily come from a 5th or 6th place team.  Again to over-simplify, what single player would you most want to build a team around?  (That helps avoid the problem of what surrounding team do they currently have.)

Having seen none of the contenders, but based on box scores and comments here, for MVP I'd have to go with Verkaik; for MOP/POY it would be a helluva close call among Verkaik and the two Hope stars.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 24, 2010, 09:25:11 PM
I suspect that oldknight is right -- that Verkaik won't get the nod because she's a freshman. Psychologically that could easily make a difference to voters, even if it's not conscious.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 24, 2010, 10:17:36 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 24, 2010, 07:50:32 PM
I've discussed this on the CCIW board, but wondered what you folks think.

To me, there is a definite difference between MVP and MOP (or POY).  To oversimplify just a bit, MVP boils down to a single question: if the player had a season-ending injury just before the conference season began, how much worse would the team have done?  (My hunch is that Hope is so loaded they still might have finished first absent ANY ONE player; would Calvin still be a serious contender absent Verkaik?)

MOP or POY is, to me, a more personal award.  Clearly team success is a factor (barring extreme cases, how outstanding could a player be if the team still finished in the basement), but it comes down (more) to stats and (individual) intangibles.  While an MVP should (nearly) always come from a serious contender, MOP could fairly readily come from a 5th or 6th place team.  Again to over-simplify, what single player would you most want to build a team around?  (That helps avoid the problem of what surrounding team do they currently have.)

Having seen none of the contenders, but based on box scores and comments here, for MVP I'd have to go with Verkaik; for MOP/POY it would be a helluva close call among Verkaik and the two Hope stars.

I understand exactly what you are saying, and really have no argument with it.  My only question is whether the folks who vote on this share your specific definiton of these two awards. I'm not so sure they do - or that it's as clear cut in their minds as it is in yours.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hwbb on February 25, 2010, 11:40:55 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 24, 2010, 10:17:36 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 24, 2010, 07:50:32 PM
I've discussed this on the CCIW board, but wondered what you folks think.

To me, there is a definite difference between MVP and MOP (or POY).  To oversimplify just a bit, MVP boils down to a single question: if the player had a season-ending injury just before the conference season began, how much worse would the team have done?  (My hunch is that Hope is so loaded they still might have finished first absent ANY ONE player; would Calvin still be a serious contender absent Verkaik?)

MOP or POY is, to me, a more personal award.  Clearly team success is a factor (barring extreme cases, how outstanding could a player be if the team still finished in the basement), but it comes down (more) to stats and (individual) intangibles.  While an MVP should (nearly) always come from a serious contender, MOP could fairly readily come from a 5th or 6th place team.  Again to over-simplify, what single player would you most want to build a team around?  (That helps avoid the problem of what surrounding team do they currently have.)

Having seen none of the contenders, but based on box scores and comments here, for MVP I'd have to go with Verkaik; for MOP/POY it would be a helluva close call among Verkaik and the two Hope stars.

I understand exactly what you are saying, and really have no argument with it.  My only question is whether the folks who vote on this share your specific definiton of these two awards. I'm not so sure they do - or that it's as clear cut in their minds as it is in yours.

Speaking of "the folks who vote"--when exactly will we all be told the results of that vote. In other words, when will the MIAA announce its MVP?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on February 25, 2010, 01:23:29 PM
Quote from: realist on February 24, 2010, 05:45:02 PM
Quote from: sac on February 24, 2010, 05:37:06 PM
Its MVP by name, but I'm not so sure they've stuck to strickly choosing the 'most valuable player' by definition and have treated it as more of a most outstanding player award.

Unlike on the men's side, the women have named several MVP's who did not win the conference championship.

2000     Lisa Hoekstra, Hope
2001   Amanda Kerkstra, Hope
2002   Niki Grubb, Kalamazoo
2003   Amanda Kerkstra, Hope
2004   Karen Hall, Alma
2005   Sarah Caskey, Albion
2006   Lisa Winkle, Calvin & Bria Ebels, Hope
2007   Lisa Winkle, Calvin
2008   Alison Kessler, Saint Mary's
2009   Carrie Snikkers, Hope

Grubb 02, Hall, 04, and Kessler 08 were all scoring champions when they won the mvp.



Nyemade Cooper was scoring champ in 2009.  Not arguing that she should have been MVP (I wonder if she was even considered).  It helps if your team doesn't go 0-fer.  Grubb's and Kessler's teams finished 2nd in their years; Hall's was 4th of 8 at 14-11 (7-7).

FWIW, I've never expressly stated that Verkaik shouldn't be the MVP.  I just feel that its presumptuous to say she has it all wrapped up.  Considering the point realist raises here, she may well get it.  However, as oldknight and Dark Knight brought up, her being a freshman may be the one thing that tips the scales away from her.  Any of the three mentioned lately are worthy candidates, for the reasons that have been expressed/argued/rehashed here.  I would not be shocked by who gets it if any of those three are chosen.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 25, 2010, 03:29:07 PM
I do not see where it tells us the class (fr, so, jr, or sr) of a previous mvp.  I cross referenced the All MIAA list to see how many times an mvp's name was on that list.  I  found 3 players that made All MIAA 4 years.  Behling (K) 86-89, Van Damme (AM) 95-98, and Lisa Winkle 04-07.  Behling was never MVP, and the other two are two time MVP's.  Winkle did share her mvp one year with Ebels.  The number of 3 time All MIAA is sizeable, and even more for 2 time All MIAA.  Many names appear only one time, and several even were mvp, and are listed only once.  Grubb from Kal. in 02 is the most recent example.  Was she a fr?
Unless I missed something it seems it takes an exceptional person to be All-MIAA 4 years in a row which by definition would mean All MIAA as a fr.  My guess is Ms. Snikkers last year as a so. making mvp was precedent setting, and I assume being on the championship team made her selection more viable.
At this point in time Ms. Verkaik's stats are equal to or better than Ms. Snikkers were a year ago.  Granted CV has logged more minutes than CS did, but one has to be careful with the arguement CS "would have done more stat wise" if she played more, and than turn around to argue CV's stats are what they are only "because she played more".
Historically the MIAA has been hesitant to make fr. All MIAA, and generally mvp has been the domain of jr's, and sr's.  To not make CV All MIAA this year is going to be extremely hard, and considering precedent (scoring & other stat. leader) plus playing on the second place team she seems a very viable mvp candidate.  

My prediction is co mvp's as it just makes sense like Ebels, and Winkle in 2006.  Greene and Verkiak as co mvp's, and Ms. Snikkers All MIAA.  The MIAA has been loathe (to it's credit imho) to punish previous winners who suffer injuries

With Hope's depth it is hard for players on that team to get the numbers necessary to merit consideration esp. early in their careers.  We each have our bias's, but I can't help but wonder if Ms. Snikkers would have had the performance as a fr. that CV has had this year if many Hope posters wouldn't have argued for her as All MIAA, and mvp back in 08. :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 25, 2010, 05:06:55 PM
Quote from: Hwbb on February 25, 2010, 11:40:55 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 24, 2010, 10:17:36 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 24, 2010, 07:50:32 PM
I've discussed this on the CCIW board, but wondered what you folks think.

To me, there is a definite difference between MVP and MOP (or POY).  To oversimplify just a bit, MVP boils down to a single question: if the player had a season-ending injury just before the conference season began, how much worse would the team have done?  (My hunch is that Hope is so loaded they still might have finished first absent ANY ONE player; would Calvin still be a serious contender absent Verkaik?)

MOP or POY is, to me, a more personal award.  Clearly team success is a factor (barring extreme cases, how outstanding could a player be if the team still finished in the basement), but it comes down (more) to stats and (individual) intangibles.  While an MVP should (nearly) always come from a serious contender, MOP could fairly readily come from a 5th or 6th place team.  Again to over-simplify, what single player would you most want to build a team around?  (That helps avoid the problem of what surrounding team do they currently have.)

Having seen none of the contenders, but based on box scores and comments here, for MVP I'd have to go with Verkaik; for MOP/POY it would be a helluva close call among Verkaik and the two Hope stars.

I understand exactly what you are saying, and really have no argument with it.  My only question is whether the folks who vote on this share your specific definiton of these two awards. I'm not so sure they do - or that it's as clear cut in their minds as it is in yours.

Speaking of "the folks who vote"--when exactly will we all be told the results of that vote. In other words, when will the MIAA announce its MVP?

Monday I believe......for both men and women
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 25, 2010, 05:16:32 PM
The St. Mary's/Calvin semi-final should have video, you can find the link at miaa.org


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 25, 2010, 07:12:43 PM
at the moment both link to livestats on miaa.org give you the Calvin/St. Mary's game.

here's the Hope link
http://www.hope.edu/pr/athletics/livestats/
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on February 25, 2010, 08:06:29 PM
Calvin goes into halftime with a 16 pt lead over St.Mary's.  Verkaik already has 15 pts, showing her MVP status once again.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 25, 2010, 09:13:28 PM
Calvin 90 St. Mary's 71

Hope 66 Adrian 54

Calvin vs Hope, Saturday 3pm at DeVos Fieldhouse
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 25, 2010, 09:30:03 PM
The knights dismantled St. Mary's tonight after Anna Kammrath got into early foul trouble. The knights were leading by 32 (and had already scored 79 points) with 10 minutes left in the game.

Verkaik got 19 points and 9 rebounds in 20 minutes, bringing her to 497 points on the season, a Calvin all-time record--with at least one game to go.

Congrats to Verkaik also for being named to the d3hoops.com Team of the Week for the second time this year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on February 26, 2010, 12:06:43 AM
Congrats to the Flying Dutch on a great win this evening.

Other highlights included:

It was a milestone game for senior Philana Greene who became the 11th player in Hope women's basketball history to score more than 1,000 career points. She has totaled 1,003 points in 99 games. Greene also set a single season record for steals. She had three to raise her season total to 90. She also holds the career mark for steals with 303.

Junior Carrie Snikkers had a double-double with 16 points and 11 rebounds while team scoring honors went to ffreshman Liz Ellis with 19 points.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on February 26, 2010, 07:56:39 AM
Before Hope and Calvin go after each other on Saturday for the MIAA tournament championship, I too would like to acknowledge Philana Greene for an outstanding career at Hope and offer a congratulations for crossing the century mark in scoring, always a career milestone achievement for any basketball player.  She has also compiled 90 steals this year.

Carrie Snikkers continues to be a most talented and classy act.  She is a force to reckon with and let's hope in her senior year she is able to play injury free.  While she has missed 8 games this year, she still managed to score more points than any other Hope player and she averages 12.6 points per game.

Congratulations also to most likely MVP, Carissa VerKaik, who is already half way to the century club with her freshman year still not completed.  She has pumped in 497 points and averages 18.4 per game while shooting field goals at a .576 clip, treys at .455, and free-throws at .833.  On top of that, she rebounds at 9.5 per game, which nearly gives her a double-double average for the entire season.  For good measure, she blocked 94 shots this year.

Just three of some of the remarkably talented players that will be on the DeVos floor Saturday afternoon.  So, go to the Happy city of Holland on Saturday and watch some good basketball.  Who knows, you might even run into Alan Babbitt and be able to exchange a few pleasantries.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 26, 2010, 08:13:11 AM
A couple more interesting notes about Calvin's game last night: after successfully getting the inside-outside game going, the Knights set a tournament record for most field goals, at 38, and came just shy of the field-goal percentage record, hitting 58.5% percent of their attempts. The previous record was 58.8%, set by Calvin in 1993.

Coach Ross was pleased with the the offensive performance but said that the Knights need to do better defensively than they have been doing for the last couple of weeks. "If we're going to keep this season going a little longer, we're going to have to start holding teams in the forties."
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 26, 2010, 02:22:31 PM
A bit of trivia following last nights Hope game

Coach Mo coached in his 400th game as the head coach at Hope last night.  In those 400 games, his teams are 339-61 for a winning percetage of .848!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 26, 2010, 03:12:14 PM
Very impressive 14 years, and this year isn't over yet.  :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on February 26, 2010, 03:49:10 PM
And with all his own recruits and system in place (minus the first three years) he is 291-29 for 90.9%... Amazing!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on February 26, 2010, 04:24:24 PM
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on February 26, 2010, 03:49:10 PM
And with all his own recruits and system in place (minus the first three years) he is 291-29 for 90.9%... Amazing!

And without the ones where they merely didn't score enough points, he is 100%...evan more amazing! ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 26, 2010, 04:35:55 PM
Quote from: wiz on February 26, 2010, 04:24:24 PM
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on February 26, 2010, 03:49:10 PM
And with all his own recruits and system in place (minus the first three years) he is 291-29 for 90.9%... Amazing!

And without the ones where they merely didn't score enough points, he is 100%...evan more amazing! ;D

Evan is more amazing than who?   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KNIGHTRHOPE on February 26, 2010, 05:11:51 PM
I am sure that Carrie would be a starter at most D1 schools at this point in her bball career(power forward)....she is all around the consummate player.  She isnt even challenged at the level she is playing.  CVK is a great post player at the D3 level but would ride the pine at the D1 level.  We shall see tomorrow how the match-up goes. I am a fan of CVK but at this point-my vote goes hands down to Carrie and I'm sure most of the MIAA coaches would not only agree but would rather play against CVK than Carrie on any team.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 26, 2010, 07:17:08 PM
Quote from: KNIGHTRHOPE on February 26, 2010, 05:11:51 PM
I am sure that Carrie would be a starter at most D1 schools at this point in her bball career(power forward)....she is all around the consummate player.  She isnt even challenged at the level she is playing.  CVK is a great post player at the D3 level but would ride the pine at the D1 level.  We shall see tomorrow how the match-up goes. I am a fan of CVK but at this point-my vote goes hands down to Carrie and I'm sure most of the MIAA coaches would not only agree but would rather play against CVK than Carrie on any team.
Welcome.  Always nice to have more posters here.  I don't think anyone ever said CS isn't a good player.    I think your use of the term most D1 programs is perhaps a bit of a stretch.  Perhaps CS could play on many low level D-1's but she would ride the pine at most mid level schools.   At this point in time I think CS was wise to choose D3 over D2 let alone D1.  As talented as CS is I just don't think she would hold up well at the D1 level.
I think all the coaches in the MIAA have a real problem playing Hope, and that is true whether or not CS is even on the floor. :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 27, 2010, 12:05:48 PM
Quote from: realist on February 26, 2010, 07:17:08 PM
At this point in time I think CS was wise to choose D3 over D2 let alone D1.  As talented as CS is I just don't think she would hold up well at the D1 level.

Just to be accurate, Carrie did not chose D3 over D2.  She was at D1 Oakland on scholarship, which she left to come to Hope.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 27, 2010, 12:41:28 PM
Quote from: realist on February 26, 2010, 07:17:08 PM
Quote from: KNIGHTRHOPE on February 26, 2010, 05:11:51 PM
I am sure that Carrie would be a starter at most D1 schools at this point in her bball career(power forward)....she is all around the consummate player.  She isnt even challenged at the level she is playing.  CVK is a great post player at the D3 level but would ride the pine at the D1 level.  We shall see tomorrow how the match-up goes. I am a fan of CVK but at this point-my vote goes hands down to Carrie and I'm sure most of the MIAA coaches would not only agree but would rather play against CVK than Carrie on any team.
Welcome.  Always nice to have more posters here.  I don't think anyone ever said CS isn't a good player.    I think your use of the term most D1 programs is perhaps a bit of a stretch.  Perhaps CS could play on many low level D-1's but she would ride the pine at most mid level schools.   At this point in time I think CS was wise to choose D3 over D2 let alone D1.  As talented as CS is I just don't think she would hold up well at the D1 level.
I think all the coaches in the MIAA have a real problem playing Hope, and that is true whether or not CS is even on the floor. :)

After a brief foray to Oakland U, Carrie made the right decision to go D3, but not for talent deficit reasons. I'm pretty familiar with the talent level required to succeed at the D1 level and Carrie certainly has the necessary talent level. Athletically and skill-wise, she is the equal or superior of many good D1 players. The reason Snikkers was right to spurn a higher level is because she simply was unwilling to accept the demands placed on athletes on full ride, and she eventually got honest with that fact.  Getting a full ride pays a lot of bills but make no mistake, it comes with a huge price. The coaches own you and your time. Carrie is not a prima donna and doesn't have a mean bone in her body. If she did, she would be completely unguardable in D3. She's plenty competitive but wants to have a life outside of basketball too and you can do that at a D3 intitution. I commend her decision to go D3 even as I lament her choice of institutions. :'(
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 27, 2010, 12:46:09 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 27, 2010, 12:05:48 PM
Quote from: realist on February 26, 2010, 07:17:08 PM
At this point in time I think CS was wise to choose D3 over D2 let alone D1.  As talented as CS is I just don't think she would hold up well at the D1 level.

Just to be accurate, Carrie did not chose D3 over D2.  She was at D1 Oakland on scholarship, which she left to come to Hope.

At no point in her college recruitment, or transfer process was a D2 option presented?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on February 27, 2010, 01:08:19 PM
Quote from: oldknight link=topic=4515.msg1182262#msg1182262 eventually I commend her decision to go D3 even as I lament her choice of institutions. :'(
/quote]

But she does have a year left and there is still time to make it right. ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 27, 2010, 03:46:22 PM
Hope and IWU seem to be playing similar first halves.  Hope was tied at 21; I check back and they lead 32-21 at the half!  At Bloomington, Elmhurst won the first 10 minutes, 24-17; the Titans went 28-5 the rest of the half!  (AA-to-be, Lyndsie Long of the Jays had 18 points the first 10 minutes; 1 pt the rest of the half!)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 27, 2010, 05:09:25 PM
After Calvin took a four point lead, Hope went on a 15 point run to end the first half in front 32-21. Calvin never seriously mounted a second half challenge and Hope won 68-49. The Flying Dutch simply have too many quick and talented perimeter players that Calvin just can't quite match up with. Snikkers and Verkaik largely neutralized one another with each scoring 12.  After failing to score a point until the final minute of the first half, Carrie did seem to play a more motivated second frame. As it happened, Carrie dove for a loose ball at mid-court at the precise moment I was talking to her Dad. We simultaneously yelped in amazement and quickly agreed this was the first time in her career we had seen her do that.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 27, 2010, 06:23:46 PM
Congrats to Hope on the win.  They (Calvin)  do all right when all starters on on the court, but Calvin's bench just can't equal Hopes B first team five.
Good luck to both teams going forward.  I really thought Calvin would make more of a game of it, but don't want to take anything away from Hope.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on February 27, 2010, 09:42:31 PM
Kudos to Meredith Kussmaul and Erika Bruinsma who drew the unenviable task of guarding Carissa Verkaik.  They were splendidly equal to the task.  Go Hope! next week in the NCAA.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on February 27, 2010, 10:03:26 PM
Quote from: wwjjdd on February 27, 2010, 09:42:31 PM
Kudos to Meredith Kussmaul and Erika Bruinsma who drew the unenviable task of guarding Carissa Verkaik.  They were splendidly equal to the task.  Go Hope! next week in the NCAA.

And Go Calvin next! next week in the NCAA.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on February 27, 2010, 11:07:45 PM
i could see the hope girls  hosting next week   i think calvin will be in but a other bracket  they  are a good team with only 5 losses   with 3 comming to hope
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 27, 2010, 11:12:09 PM
Pat's gonna have his hands full trying to peg the AA centers!  The MIAA and CCIW alone have FIVE who probably deserve at least HM (Snikkers, Verkaik, Solari, Jacklin of Carthage, and Wiseman of Millikin)!  And I'd assume there must be some others out there at least as good as some - wow! ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 28, 2010, 12:24:26 AM
That game was simply tough to watch. :-\

Congrats to Hope on winning the Tournament Championship and to Hope Sr's Jenny Cowen and Philana Green who went 12-0 with 4 MIAA Tournament Championships and 3 outright MIAA Championships.

Where does 4 years go!!!

8 MIAA tournament championships in 10 years.......that is simply hard to do.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on February 28, 2010, 08:46:03 PM
I have just gone over the DIII Hoops projection for the women's tournament about five times and can't find Calvin in the mix.  Are my weary eyes playing tricks on me, or is this an "oops" on DIII Hoops part?  I can't believe that Calvin didn't make DIII Hoop's projected field!!!!!

http://www.d3boards.com/playoffs/proj-wbbbracket2010.pdf
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on February 28, 2010, 08:52:24 PM
Quote from: wwjjdd on February 28, 2010, 08:46:03 PM
I have just gone over the DIII Hoops projection for the women's tournament about five times and can't find Calvin in the mix.  Are my weary eyes playing tricks on me, or is this an "oops" on DIII Hoops part?  I can't believe that Calvin didn't make DIII Hoop's projected field!!!!!

http://www.d3boards.com/playoffs/proj-wbbbracket2010.pdf

One presumes an oversight from weary DIIIers (Calvin didn't even make their list of teams left on the table).

Note that their bracket would also have Hope and IWU meeting before the Final Four (not at the Final Four location, if the NCAA were true to form).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 28, 2010, 08:52:50 PM
Quote from: wwjjdd on February 28, 2010, 08:46:03 PM
I have just gone over the DIII Hoops projection for the women's tournament about five times and can't find Calvin in the mix.  Are my weary eyes playing tricks on me, or is this an "oops" on DIII Hoops part?  I can't believe that Calvin didn't make DIII Hoop's projected field!!!!!

http://www.d3boards.com/playoffs/proj-wbbbracket2010.pdf

I just did the same thing - read it multiple times and Calvin is not listed - or even "on the board" as one of the last teams left out.   Made me think back to the Hope teams from 03-04 and 04-05.  Both of those teams lost in the MIAA tourney had 23-4 records and were not selected for the tournament.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 28, 2010, 09:32:43 PM
I was just wondering how Calvin was left off too. I will be very surprised if that is how this ends up.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hwbb on February 28, 2010, 09:38:58 PM
Quote from: pointlem on February 28, 2010, 08:52:24 PM
Quote from: wwjjdd on February 28, 2010, 08:46:03 PM
I have just gone over the DIII Hoops projection for the women's tournament about five times and can't find Calvin in the mix.  Are my weary eyes playing tricks on me, or is this an "oops" on DIII Hoops part?  I can't believe that Calvin didn't make DIII Hoop's projected field!!!!!

http://www.d3boards.com/playoffs/proj-wbbbracket2010.pdf

One presumes an oversight from weary DIIIers (Calvin didn't even make their list of teams left on the table).

Note that their bracket would also have Hope and IWU meeting before the Final Four (not at the Final Four location, if the NCAA were true to form).

And before that possible meeting with IWU, the D3 bracket has Hope potentially playing WashU--in other words, three of the top six D3 Hoops teams in the same quarter of the bracket.  Pat, help us out with the reasoning here, both for the projected stacked region and with the Calvin omission.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 28, 2010, 10:02:20 PM
Calvin is now listed as a Pool C team on the list of projections. Didn't check the bracket but I think it was just an error.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 28, 2010, 10:12:54 PM
Yes, someone pointed it out on the Hoopsville show and it was definitely an error. They should have been considered ahead of W&J. We took our Great Lakes teams out of order.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 28, 2010, 10:17:56 PM
On the other question -- I went about it like the NCAA does in women's basketball. In the past few years they have picked top seeds that they want to protect, so to speak, and give the opportunity to meet in the Final Four. In my mind this year that was Amherst, Kean, Illinois Wesleyan and George Fox. (Could have been Hope, no doubt, instead of George Fox. I gave the defending champ a little weight there, all else being fairly equal.)

From there, I had to make some concessions for travel. I had determined that I wanted to keep GFOX from playing IWU in the Elite 8 so I had to move GFOX some distance. That ended up being to face the CNU portion of the bracket. KEAN and WPU matched up well, as did AMH and MRVN, which might well be the best No. 1 seed against the worst. Your mileage may vary. That left IWU and HOPE to match up with each other.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hwbb on February 28, 2010, 10:33:51 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 28, 2010, 10:17:56 PM
On the other question -- I went about it like the NCAA does in women's basketball. In the past few years they have picked top seeds that they want to protect, so to speak, and give the opportunity to meet in the Final Four. In my mind this year that was Amherst, Kean, Illinois Wesleyan and George Fox. (Could have been Hope, no doubt, instead of George Fox. I gave the defending champ a little weight there, all else being fairly equal.)

From there, I had to make some concessions for travel. I had determined that I wanted to keep GFOX from playing IWU in the Elite 8 so I had to move GFOX some distance. That ended up being to face the CNU portion of the bracket. KEAN and WPU matched up well, as did AMH and MRVN, which might well be the best No. 1 seed against the worst. Your mileage may vary. That left IWU and HOPE to match up with each other.

Thanks, Pat.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 28, 2010, 11:17:38 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 28, 2010, 10:17:56 PM
On the other question -- I went about it like the NCAA does in women's basketball. In the past few years they have picked top seeds that they want to protect, so to speak, and give the opportunity to meet in the Final Four. In my mind this year that was Amherst, Kean, Illinois Wesleyan and George Fox. (Could have been Hope, no doubt, instead of George Fox. I gave the defending champ a little weight there, all else being fairly equal.)

From there, I had to make some concessions for travel. I had determined that I wanted to keep GFOX from playing IWU in the Elite 8 so I had to move GFOX some distance. That ended up being to face the CNU portion of the bracket. KEAN and WPU matched up well, as did AMH and MRVN, which might well be the best No. 1 seed against the worst. Your mileage may vary. That left IWU and HOPE to match up with each other.

Top seeds they wanted to 'protect'

So thats how undefeated Hope and undefeated Howard Payne met in the quarterfinals in 2008.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 28, 2010, 11:22:54 PM
I'm also hoping that projected bracket is wrong.  I've got my heart set on watching IWU best Hope in the title game! ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on February 28, 2010, 11:41:04 PM
Quote from: sac on February 28, 2010, 11:17:38 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 28, 2010, 10:17:56 PM
On the other question -- I went about it like the NCAA does in women's basketball. In the past few years they have picked top seeds that they want to protect, so to speak, and give the opportunity to meet in the Final Four. In my mind this year that was Amherst, Kean, Illinois Wesleyan and George Fox. (Could have been Hope, no doubt, instead of George Fox. I gave the defending champ a little weight there, all else being fairly equal.)

From there, I had to make some concessions for travel. I had determined that I wanted to keep GFOX from playing IWU in the Elite 8 so I had to move GFOX some distance. That ended up being to face the CNU portion of the bracket. KEAN and WPU matched up well, as did AMH and MRVN, which might well be the best No. 1 seed against the worst. Your mileage may vary. That left IWU and HOPE to match up with each other.

Top seeds they wanted to 'protect'

So thats how undefeated Hope and undefeated Howard Payne met in the quarterfinals in 2008.

Come on SAC, what he meant to say was "protect, and not give home court advantage all the way to the final 4."
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 28, 2010, 11:50:37 PM
Quote from: sac on February 28, 2010, 11:17:38 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 28, 2010, 10:17:56 PM
On the other question -- I went about it like the NCAA does in women's basketball. In the past few years they have picked top seeds that they want to protect, so to speak, and give the opportunity to meet in the Final Four. In my mind this year that was Amherst, Kean, Illinois Wesleyan and George Fox. (Could have been Hope, no doubt, instead of George Fox. I gave the defending champ a little weight there, all else being fairly equal.)

From there, I had to make some concessions for travel. I had determined that I wanted to keep GFOX from playing IWU in the Elite 8 so I had to move GFOX some distance. That ended up being to face the CNU portion of the bracket. KEAN and WPU matched up well, as did AMH and MRVN, which might well be the best No. 1 seed against the worst. Your mileage may vary. That left IWU and HOPE to match up with each other.

Top seeds they wanted to 'protect'

So thats how undefeated Hope and undefeated Howard Payne met in the quarterfinals in 2008.

Their seeds don't have to be the same as yours, Sac.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ziggy on March 01, 2010, 08:58:18 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 28, 2010, 11:50:37 PM
Quote from: sac on February 28, 2010, 11:17:38 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 28, 2010, 10:17:56 PM
On the other question -- I went about it like the NCAA does in women's basketball. In the past few years they have picked top seeds that they want to protect, so to speak, and give the opportunity to meet in the Final Four. In my mind this year that was Amherst, Kean, Illinois Wesleyan and George Fox. (Could have been Hope, no doubt, instead of George Fox. I gave the defending champ a little weight there, all else being fairly equal.)

From there, I had to make some concessions for travel. I had determined that I wanted to keep GFOX from playing IWU in the Elite 8 so I had to move GFOX some distance. That ended up being to face the CNU portion of the bracket. KEAN and WPU matched up well, as did AMH and MRVN, which might well be the best No. 1 seed against the worst. Your mileage may vary. That left IWU and HOPE to match up with each other.

Top seeds they wanted to 'protect'

So thats how undefeated Hope and undefeated Howard Payne met in the quarterfinals in 2008.

Their seeds don't have to be the same as yours, Sac.

Pat, I can't imagine trying to put together projections for the men's AND women's tournaments. When all this is over with you deserve a break!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2010, 12:47:09 PM
Women's bracket posted: http://www.d3boards.com/playoffs/wbkb-bracket2010.pdf
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on March 01, 2010, 12:52:05 PM
Calvin at St. Norbert would play the winner of Stevens Pt/Minnesota Morris

Hope hosting plays Denison would play the winner of DePauw/Lakeland
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 01, 2010, 12:58:03 PM
Hope hosting DePauw..............chuckle
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 01, 2010, 12:59:53 PM
good to see IWU hosting too   ::)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on March 01, 2010, 01:01:09 PM
I can't get the women's bracket to open. Am I correct in my interpretation of the front-page that Hope and IWU would meet before the Final Four?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 01, 2010, 01:02:25 PM
Quote from: ChicagoHopeNut on March 01, 2010, 01:01:09 PM
I can't get the women's bracket to open. Am I correct in my interpretation of the front-page that Hope and IWU would meet before the Final Four?

Yep Qfinals

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 01, 2010, 01:05:17 PM
Quote from: sac on March 01, 2010, 01:02:25 PM
Quote from: ChicagoHopeNut on March 01, 2010, 01:01:09 PM
I can't get the women's bracket to open. Am I correct in my interpretation of the front-page that Hope and IWU would meet before the Final Four?

Yep Qfinals



Only after a Calvin/IWU game in the round prior to that...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 01, 2010, 01:16:07 PM
Quote from: sac on March 01, 2010, 12:59:53 PM
good to see IWU hosting too   ::)

Does IWU lose the host on the second weekend? It would only be fair...  ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 01, 2010, 01:24:54 PM
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on March 01, 2010, 01:16:07 PM
Quote from: sac on March 01, 2010, 12:59:53 PM
good to see IWU hosting too   ::)

Does IWU lose the host on the second weekend? It would only be fair...  ;)

Maybe Hope or Calvin will host, and the Titans can knock out the entire MIAA on their home turf! ;D  (Sorry, couldn't resist! :-[)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 01, 2010, 01:25:27 PM
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on March 01, 2010, 01:05:17 PM
Quote from: sac on March 01, 2010, 01:02:25 PM
Quote from: ChicagoHopeNut on March 01, 2010, 01:01:09 PM
I can't get the women's bracket to open. Am I correct in my interpretation of the front-page that Hope and IWU would meet before the Final Four?

Yep Qfinals




Only after a Calvin/IWU game in the round prior to that...

Sounds like a dream sectional for MrYpsi.  

From HIS perspective:  He might get to see Hope, Calvin and IWU all in the same weekend, with the possibility of a Verkaik/Solari match-up Friday night followed by a possible Snikkers/Solari matchup Saturday.  
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 01, 2010, 01:38:27 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on March 01, 2010, 01:25:27 PM
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on March 01, 2010, 01:05:17 PM
Quote from: sac on March 01, 2010, 01:02:25 PM
Quote from: ChicagoHopeNut on March 01, 2010, 01:01:09 PM
I can't get the women's bracket to open. Am I correct in my interpretation of the front-page that Hope and IWU would meet before the Final Four?

Yep Qfinals




Only after a Calvin/IWU game in the round prior to that...

Sounds like a dream sectional for MrYpsi.  

From HIS perspective:  He might get to see Hope, Calvin and IWU all in the same weekend, with the possibility of a Verkaik/Solari match-up Friday night followed by a possible Snikkers/Solari matchup Saturday.  

It would be VERY tempting, but I already got my wife to agree to my going to Bloomington for the FF if IWU makes it; two straight weekends might be pushing it!

(And I'll beat anyone to the obvious rejoinder - either Calvin or Hope would be delighted to solve the problem for me! :P)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 01, 2010, 01:54:49 PM
Quote from: sac on March 01, 2010, 12:58:03 PM
Hope hosting DePauw..............chuckle

:) :) :) + karma.  I noticed that right away myself.  I am afraid that Hope's class will be lost on the bunch from IN. :)

Even more poetic justice would be Hope hosting the second weekend, and getting the chance to knock the final four hosting team out.  ;)  Unless Calvin makes it that far, and gets to do the honors.  I really do not want to contemplate the idea of Calvin Hope IV.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on March 01, 2010, 01:59:11 PM
Quote from: realist on March 01, 2010, 01:54:49 PM
Quote from: sac on March 01, 2010, 12:58:03 PM
Hope hosting DePauw..............chuckle

:) :) :) + karma.  I noticed that right away myself.  I am afraid that Hope's class will be lost on the bunch from IN. :)

Even more poetic justice would be Hope hosting the second weekend, and getting the chance to knock the final four hosting team out.  ;)  Unless Calvin makes it that far, and gets to do the honors.  I really do not want to contemplate the idea of Calvin Hope IV.

Nor do I!!!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on March 01, 2010, 02:36:58 PM
Has anyone else been unable to open the women's bracket? I can't get it through ncaa.com or d3hoops.com. ???
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 01, 2010, 03:37:17 PM
Quote from: ChicagoHopeNut on March 01, 2010, 02:36:58 PM
Has anyone else been unable to open the women's bracket? I can't get it through ncaa.com or d3hoops.com. ???

Opened fine for me.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 01, 2010, 03:42:35 PM
All MIAA teams announced - Verkaik is named the MVP.

http://www.miaa.org/wbb/
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 01, 2010, 04:04:16 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 01, 2010, 03:42:35 PM
All MIAA teams announced - Verkaik is named the MVP.

http://www.miaa.org/wbb/


And PG gets a nice nod with Defensive Player of the Year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 01, 2010, 04:10:50 PM
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on March 01, 2010, 04:04:16 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 01, 2010, 03:42:35 PM
All MIAA teams announced - Verkaik is named the MVP.

http://www.miaa.org/wbb/


And PG gets a nice nod with Defensive Player of the Year.

I like that the women acknowledge that, never understood why the men haven't.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 01, 2010, 04:28:50 PM
Congrats to all the players making the All MIAA teams.
I think it is great they rewarded C Verkaik for the outstanding year she had.  Giving a top award to a fr. is not something that is going to happen very often  at any level.  Unless I missed something CV is the first women's mvp in MIAA hisstiry.

It is going to be interesting to watch how both Hope and Calvin do this weekend.  

I had forgotten the defensive player of the year award, and think it fits P Greene perfectly.  A fun player to watch when she isn't up against Calvin. :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on March 01, 2010, 08:03:23 PM
Quote from: sac on March 01, 2010, 04:10:50 PM
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on March 01, 2010, 04:04:16 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 01, 2010, 03:42:35 PM
All MIAA teams announced - Verkaik is named the MVP.

http://www.miaa.org/wbb/


Have the women always done that?

And PG gets a nice nod with Defensive Player of the Year.

I like that the women acknowledge that, never understood why the men haven't.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 01, 2010, 08:51:16 PM
Quote from: oldknight on February 24, 2010, 01:38:03 PM
Last year, on the men's side, Jesse Reimink had the best overall stats in the conference and he won the award even though his team finished 2nd in the league race. I couldn't complain because his importance to his team was undeniable. This year, Verkaik's impact and her stats are just as dominating but I suspect she won't win--not because she's not worthy but because she's a freshmen. I know it's not a lifetime achievement award but being a key player on the league's best team for 4 years raises your profile and Greene is a key player. Although Carissa's stats are better, Greene would score more if her team wasn't so doggone balanced.


I am more than pleased to eat these words. Congrats to a terrific young lady whose impact on Calvin's program has been dramatic. I believe only once has there been a four time MVP in MIAA basketball--male or female--and that was Mark Veenstra. Unless Carrie Snikkers can take the award back next year, Carrisa has a reasonable shot at duplicating that feat.

Also, congrats to Philana Greene on her defensive player award.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hwbb on March 01, 2010, 11:33:38 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 01, 2010, 03:42:35 PM
All MIAA teams announced - Verkaik is named the MVP.

http://www.miaa.org/wbb/


Last week's debate on this board settled. Congrats to Ms. Verkaik on the award, and to the many of you who predicted it.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on March 02, 2010, 12:15:17 AM
     Re: Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #1432 on: Yesterday at 09:47:01 pm »   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I like that Lakeland match-up in the first round.  Ought to be a good one.  A pair of teams who are on a bigtime roll after some early losses.  As I said, the winner won't have much to look foward to with Hope in the second round.

Although, it appears the Hope fans are already looking ahead to IWU.  Perhaps their team will make the same grave error.  Either that or Hope isn't worried about DePauw because their officials won't let heathens like DePauw University into their G-rated, holier-than-thou gymnasium.

Was this a dig at Sac's earlier comment?  lol
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 02, 2010, 12:17:44 AM
Quote from: jspiii on March 02, 2010, 12:15:17 AM
     Re: Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #1432 on: Yesterday at 09:47:01 pm »   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I like that Lakeland match-up in the first round.  Ought to be a good one.  A pair of teams who are on a bigtime roll after some early losses.  As I said, the winner won't have much to look foward to with Hope in the second round.

Although, it appears the Hope fans are already looking ahead to IWU.  Perhaps their team will make the same grave error.  Either that or Hope isn't worried about DePauw because their officials won't let heathens like DePauw University into their G-rated, holier-than-thou gymnasium.

Was this a dig at Sac's earlier comment?  lol

probably realist's who isn't even a Hope fan.........and its Mr Ypsi who has been looking forward to IWU/Hope for about ...12 months, also not a Hope fan.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: David Collinge on March 02, 2010, 12:47:17 AM
Although on paper Hope is a comfortable favorite in the first round, I wouldn't completely discount Denison's chances.  They had a bit of a rocky season after graduating a six-woman senior class, but have pulled things together and looked pretty decent in the NCAC tournament, finishing 21-7 for the season.  They have the reigning conference Player of the Year in junior Shaina Kaiser, a do-everything wing who averaged 16.3 pts., 6.5 rebounds and 2.8 assists per game, hitting almost half (.485) of her field goal attempts.  They got a pretty good season from rookie point guard Serafina Nuzzo (10.7 ppg, 4.0 apg, 2.2 spg, 1.7 a/to).  They're extraordinarily well-coached by Head Coach Sara Lee, who nobody doesn't like.  And, of course, they've done it before (http://www.d3hoops.com/women-final-four/07/wbbbracket07.pdf) (although not at Holland.)  Were I a Hope fan, I probably wouldn't lose a lot of sleep over this matchup, but neither would I just assume a victory over the Big Red.  Good luck to the Flying Dutch.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2010, 01:26:29 AM
Quote from: sac on March 02, 2010, 12:17:44 AM
Quote from: jspiii on March 02, 2010, 12:15:17 AM
    Re: Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #1432 on: Yesterday at 09:47:01 pm »  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I like that Lakeland match-up in the first round.  Ought to be a good one.  A pair of teams who are on a bigtime roll after some early losses.  As I said, the winner won't have much to look foward to with Hope in the second round.

Although, it appears the Hope fans are already looking ahead to IWU.  Perhaps their team will make the same grave error.  Either that or Hope isn't worried about DePauw because their officials won't let heathens like DePauw University into their G-rated, holier-than-thou gymnasium.

Was this a dig at Sac's earlier comment?  lol

probably realist's who isn't even a Hope fan.........and its Mr Ypsi who has been looking forward to IWU/Hope for about ...12 months, also not a Hope fan.

Heck, I've been looking forward to it for THREE YEARS!  Just neither one of us can make the danged Final Four when we both expected to. :(

This year it became especially intriguing when Christina Solari (IWU) and Carrie Snikkers (Hope) were the First and Second team All America centers, respectively.  I expected to see the showdown in Holland last year.  I hoped to see the showdown in Bloomington this year.  Since they are scheduled to meet (if both survive that long) in the Elite Eight, my guess is I will still see them in Holland! ;)

(Oh, and I'm a Hope fan against MOST opponents. ;))
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 02, 2010, 08:30:08 AM
Quote from: David Collinge on March 02, 2010, 12:47:17 AM
Although on paper Hope is a comfortable favorite in the first round, I wouldn't completely discount Denison's chances.  They had a bit of a rocky season after graduating a six-woman senior class, but have pulled things together and looked pretty decent in the NCAC tournament, finishing 21-7 for the season.  They have the reigning conference Player of the Year in junior Shaina Kaiser, a do-everything wing who averaged 16.3 pts., 6.5 rebounds and 2.8 assists per game, hitting almost half (.485) of her field goal attempts.  They got a pretty good season from rookie point guard Serafina Nuzzo (10.7 ppg, 4.0 apg, 2.2 spg, 1.7 a/to).  They're extraordinarily well-coached by Head Coach Sara Lee, who nobody doesn't like.  And, of course, they've done it before (http://www.d3hoops.com/women-final-four/07/wbbbracket07.pdf) (although not at Holland.)  Were I a Hope fan, I probably wouldn't lose a lot of sleep over this matchup, but neither would I just assume a victory over the Big Red.  Good luck to the Flying Dutch.

Based on the comments I heard yesterday, I am certain that Hope is not overlooking Denison one bit.  In fact there are two seniors on Hope's team who have waited 3 years for some payback for Hope's early exit from the tournament in 07 at the hands of the Big Red.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 02, 2010, 10:57:28 AM
Quote from: jspiii on March 02, 2010, 12:15:17 AM
    Re: Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #1432 on: Yesterday at 09:47:01 pm »  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I like that Lakeland match-up in the first round.  Ought to be a good one.  A pair of teams who are on a bigtime roll after some early losses.  As I said, the winner won't have much to look foward to with Hope in the second round.

Although, it appears the Hope fans are already looking ahead to IWU.  Perhaps their team will make the same grave error.  Either that or Hope isn't worried about DePauw because their officials won't let heathens like DePauw University into their G-rated, holier-than-thou gymnasium.

Was this a dig at Sac's earlier comment?  lol

Sac is correct it probably is me they are upset with.  I got my information first hand from a DePauw graduate, and her husband who were sitting right behind the DePauw president at the game referenced.  DePauw students were using "crude, vulgar, sexist, vile" language and gestures during the entire course of the game.  Taunting Hope players.  The president just sat their apparently totally oblivious to what was going on around him.  Hope fans (and my friends) were shocked at the blatant violation of NCAA policy that host insititutions are responsible to control fan behavior.  
As a Calvin supporter I am totally confident that such behavior on the part of anyone at any Hope sporting event would be dealt with swiftly, and appropriately in accordance with both NCAA policy, and the Hope's own policy.  If that is "holier than thou", so be it.

FWIW:  The above mentioned DePauw grad was so upset over the reply she got to her letter to the president of the school she has vowed never to give them another cent, and has steered several potential students away.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: DPULefty22 on March 02, 2010, 01:21:45 PM
Quote from: realist on March 02, 2010, 10:57:28 AM
FWIW:  The above mentioned DePauw grad was so upset over the reply she got to her letter to the president of the school she has vowed never to give them another cent, and has steered several potential students away.

I believe I've met the woman in question. With her permission, I'd like to post this photo of her.

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.websimpsons.com%2Fpersonajes%2Fvecinos-springfield%2FHelenLovejoy.jpg&hash=b90fd0a660ef599b5ff38d7e9d486b7cc1959b3b)

We're a long way from 2006. If you aren't over it by now, I really and truly feel sorry for you.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 02, 2010, 03:13:47 PM
FWIW - here's a stats comparison between Hope and Denison.  I'll post one for Lakeland and DePauw later



Offense     % 2pt   % 3pt      % FT
Hope     45.3   32.6      71.3
Denison     46   29.8      67.6
            
Defense     % 2pt   % 3pt     
Hope     35.2   24.3     
Denison     41.4   27.3     
            
Rebounding     Team   Opp      Margin
Hope     43.8   38.1      5.7
Denison     42   37.9      4.1
            
Scoring     Team   Opp      Margin
Hope     75.1   51.7      23.4
Denison     70.4   59.2      11.2
            
3 point shooting     Attempts   Made      Made/game
Hope     531   173      6.2
Denison     514   153      5.5
            
Blocks     Total   per game     
Hope     175   6.3     
Denison     88   3.1     
            
Steals     Total   per game     
Hope     465   16.6     
Denison     247   8.8     
            
Turnovers     Total    per game     
Hope     530   18.9     
Denison     412   14.7     
            
Assists     Total   per game     
Hope     433   15.5     
Denison     444   15.9     
            
Assist/Turnover             
Hope     0.82        
Denison     1.08        
            
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 02, 2010, 04:33:59 PM
Looking at St. Norbert it seems they rely heavily on their guards.  Of the top 7 scorers 4 are quards, 2 forwards, and one post player.  They have a high scoring margin, keep opponents around 50, and have a high number of steals.  
Calvin definitely has a height advantage, but unless the Knights can protect the ball from steals, and other turnovers may not get the chance to exploit this advantage.  I expect the pressure on the ball is going to equal or exceed that which Hope has come at the Knights with.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 02, 2010, 05:42:03 PM
Quote from: realist on March 02, 2010, 04:33:59 PM
Looking at St. Norbert it seems they rely heavily on their guards.  Of the top 7 scorers 4 are quards, 2 forwards, and one post player.  They have a high scoring margin, keep opponents around 50, and have a high number of steals.  
Calvin definitely has a height advantage, but unless the Knights can protect the ball from steals, and other turnovers may not get the chance to exploit this advantage.  I expect the pressure on the ball is going to equal or exceed that which Hope has come at the Knights with.

Twice I think Calvin had good ideas vs Hope, twice they came out with a lot of confidence and determination.........but in neither case were they able to keep it focused for 40 minutes.    Once they started when it was too late, once they couldn't sustain it.


I'm far from an expert on women's hoops, but both of these teams looked like really good D3 women's teams this year to me.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on March 02, 2010, 07:54:33 PM
Quote from: realist on March 02, 2010, 10:57:28 AM
Quote from: jspiii on March 02, 2010, 12:15:17 AM
    Re: Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #1432 on: Yesterday at 09:47:01 pm »  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I like that Lakeland match-up in the first round.  Ought to be a good one.  A pair of teams who are on a bigtime roll after some early losses.  As I said, the winner won't have much to look foward to with Hope in the second round.

Although, it appears the Hope fans are already looking ahead to IWU.  Perhaps their team will make the same grave error.  Either that or Hope isn't worried about DePauw because their officials won't let heathens like DePauw University into their G-rated, holier-than-thou gymnasium.

Was this a dig at Sac's earlier comment?  lol

Sac is correct it probably is me they are upset with.  I got my information first hand from a DePauw graduate, and her husband who were sitting right behind the DePauw president at the game referenced.  DePauw students were using "crude, vulgar, sexist, vile" language and gestures during the entire course of the game.  Taunting Hope players.  The president just sat their apparently totally oblivious to what was going on around him.  Hope fans (and my friends) were shocked at the blatant violation of NCAA policy that host insititutions are responsible to control fan behavior.  
As a Calvin supporter I am totally confident that such behavior on the part of anyone at any Hope sporting event would be dealt with swiftly, and appropriately in accordance with both NCAA policy, and the Hope's own policy.  If that is "holier than thou", so be it.

FWIW:  The above mentioned DePauw grad was so upset over the reply she got to her letter to the president of the school she has vowed never to give them another cent, and has steered several potential students away.

I was sitting next to Realist's source at the game in 2006.  I can confirm everything she passed on to him as being true.  Perhaps the most infuriating things was the DePauw President's cavalier attitude.  If I remember when Source brought the bad (to put it mildly) behavior to his attention, he replied that he hadn't noticed anything.  Since we were facing the cheering section and every word was loud and clear to my just-as-old-if- not-older ears, I found his response hard to fathom.  And, yes, 2006 is 4 years ago, but there are certain things that you don't quickly forget.  That night for me was one of those things.  I  know the DePauw fans and students will be warmly welcome in "Happy Town;" but I also believe that if they have not cleaned up their act, they will be just as warmly unwelcomed. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 03, 2010, 12:01:58 AM
I also remember Coach Morehouse coming on here and asking Hope fans to drop it.

Sorry I even posted something, it was just my gut reaction.  I've never been to DePauw myself, but have come across 3 or 4 people in my life that went there.......all good guys and gals.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 03, 2010, 08:42:29 AM
A stat comparison of St. Norbert and Calvin.  (realist - not sure these would indicate the Green Knights pressure the ball more than Hope)  I predict Calvin will win this game by 5



Offense     % 2pt   % 3pt      % FT
Calvin     48.8   33.1      74.9
St. Norbert     50.1   30      68.4
            
Defense     % 2pt   % 3pt     
Calvin     37   29.1     
St. Norbert     40   26.2     
            
Rebounding     Team   Opp      Margin
Calvin     38.3   34.9      3.4
St. Norbert     35.6   32.3      3.3
            
Scoring     Team   Opp      Margin
Calvin     68.2   56.4      11.8
St. Norbert     69.2   50      19.2
            
3 point shooting     Attempts   Made      Made/game
Calvin     474   157      5.6
St. Norbert     303   91      3.6
            
Blocks     Total   per game     
Calvin     166   5.9     
St. Norbert     69   2.8     
            
Steals     Total   per game     
Calvin     223      
St. Norbert     307   12.3     
            
Turnovers     Total    per game     
Calvin     519   18.5     
St. Norbert     418   16.7     
            
Assists     Total   per game     
Calvin     377   13.5     
St. Norbert     343   13.7     
            
Assist/Turnover             
Calvin     0.73        
St. Norbert     0.82        
Title: Re: MIAA women's basketball
Post by: Preto on March 03, 2010, 10:36:10 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 01, 2010, 03:42:35 PM
All MIAA teams announced - Verkaik is named the MVP.

http://www.miaa.org/wbb/

I'm more than a little surprised to see only two Hope women on the All-MIAA team ... what am I missing here? Seems like all five Dutch starters (as well as a few off the bench) would start on any other MIAA team.  

All-MIAA First Team
Philana Greene, Hope
Anna Kammrath, Saint Mary's
Melissa Shaw, Albion
Carrie Snikkers, Hope
Brook Van Eck, Calvin
Carissa Verkaik, Calvin

All-MIAA Second Team
Sydney Beckwith, Alma
Kelley Murphy, Saint Mary's
Jennifer Perrin, Adrian
Danielle Senf, Trine
Anita Stamps, Adrian
Olivia Yarrell, Olivet
Title: Re: MIAA women's basketball
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on March 03, 2010, 10:42:01 AM
Quote from: Preto on March 03, 2010, 10:36:10 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 01, 2010, 03:42:35 PM
All MIAA teams announced - Verkaik is named the MVP.

http://www.miaa.org/wbb/

I'm more than a little surprised to see only two Hope women on the All-MIAA team ... what am I missing here? Seems like all five Dutch starters (as well as a few off the bench) would start on any other MIAA team.  

All-MIAA First Team
Philana Greene, Hope
Anna Kammrath, Saint Mary's
Melissa Shaw, Albion
Carrie Snikkers, Hope
Brook Van Eck, Calvin
Carissa Verkaik, Calvin

All-MIAA Second Team
Sydney Beckwith, Alma
Kelley Murphy, Saint Mary's
Jennifer Perrin, Adrian
Danielle Senf, Trine
Anita Stamps, Adrian
Olivia Yarrell, Olivet

Only two from Calvin as well. Looks like every team except Kzoo is represented. Similar to old discussions on the men's board I think there is an unstated (even subconscious) desire to see the best player from each team represented on all-conference teams.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 03, 2010, 11:13:57 AM
Quote from: Preto on March 03, 2010, 10:36:10 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 01, 2010, 03:42:35 PM
All MIAA teams announced - Verkaik is named the MVP.

http://www.miaa.org/wbb/

I'm more than a little surprised to see only two Hope women on the All-MIAA team ... what am I missing here? Seems like all five Dutch starters (as well as a few off the bench) would start on any other MIAA team


That may or may not be the case.  I think most likely the Hope women don't have the stats like the other women do because they play fewer minutes per game in Morehouse's system.  Not a single Hope player made the most minutes played list for the conference season.  http://miaa.org/wbb/stats/0910/confonly.htm ........in fact you'll find very few Hope players in many of the individual stat leaders categories.

In MIAA play

Greene 21.4 min
Snikkers 17.4
Bruinsma 19.1
Ellis 18.8
Cowen 19.2
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 03, 2010, 12:02:44 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 03, 2010, 08:42:29 AM
A stat comparison of St. Norbert and Calvin. (realist - not sure these would indicate the Green Knights pressure the ball more than Hope)  I predict Calvin will win this game by 5

Thanks FDF.  I did an abbreviated version of your sheet before I came to my conclusion.  This is confirmed by Coach Ross in an interview on Calvin's website that St. Norbert plays a 4 and 1 game.  Actually it sounded just an awful lot like Hope, but not the inside game Hope can play.  
We both know how Calvin did against Hope defense so playing a team with even 80 or 90% of Hope's defensive game could prove to be a problem.  The leading shoot blocker on St. Noprbert is listed as a guard, and they have a sizeable steal margin.
Like you I think Calvin is more than capable of playing a great game, and a key in that is protecting the ball and getting into the half court game.

I think Calvin has a very good. competitive D3 team, but I think Hope is just at another level.   :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 03, 2010, 12:07:48 PM
Quote from: realist on March 03, 2010, 12:02:44 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 03, 2010, 08:42:29 AM
A stat comparison of St. Norbert and Calvin.  (realist - not sure these would indicate the Green Knights pressure the ball more than Hope)  I predict Calvin will win this game by 5

Thanks FDF.  I did an abbreviated version of your sheet before I came to my conclusion.  This is confirmed by Coach Ross in an interview on Calvin's website that St. Norbert plays a 4 and 1 game.  Actually it sounded just an awful lot like Hope, but not the inside game Hope can play. 
We both know how Calvin did against Hope defense so playing a team with even 80 or 90% of Hope's defensive game could prove to be a problem.  The leading shoot blocker on St. Noprbert is listed as a guard, and they have a sizeable steal margin.
Like you I think Calvin is more than capable of playing a great game, and a key in that is protecting the ball and getting into the half court game.

I think Calvin has a very good. competitive D3 team, but I think Hope is just at another level.   :)


Can't disagree with you on any point.  I wonder how much Hope's dominant teams over the last few years have affected the perception of the MIAA as a whole. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 03, 2010, 12:17:41 PM
I think there are quite a few teams that are very glad they did not have to worry about being bracketed with Hope.  With Calvin making the tournament this year, and everyone reading that 3 of Calvin's 4 losses were against Hope pretty much tells everyone how good Hope must really be.  Yah, like they missed the 27-1 record, and high national ranking. ;)
Just looking at some of the rosters of teams in the tournament it strikes me that few teams can match up with Hope's size, and even fewer with Hope's depth.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 03, 2010, 03:33:19 PM
Here is a stat comparison for the first game at DeVos on Friday.



Offense     % 2pt   % 3pt      % FT
DePauw     44.9   36.5      71.3
Lakeland     39.1   30      67.6
            
Defense     % 2pt   % 3pt     
DePauw     37   29.7     
Lakeland     40.9   29.9     
            
Rebounding     Team   Opp      Margin
DePauw     45.3   28.2      17.1
Lakeland     38.3   38.2      0.1
            
Scoring     Team   Opp      Margin
DePauw     72.3   50.5      21.8
Lakeland     63.4   54.3      9.1
            
3 point shooting     Attempts   Made      Made/game
DePauw     446   163      5.8
Lakeland     337   101      3.6
            
Blocks     Total   per game     
DePauw     60   2.1     
Lakeland     60   2.1     
            
Steals     Total   per game     
DePauw     278   9.9     
Lakeland     394   14.1     
            
Turnovers     Total    per game     
DePauw     393   14     
Lakeland     470   16.8     
            
Assists     Total   per game     
DePauw     401   14.3     
Lakeland     333   11.9     
            
Assist/Turnover             
DePauw     1.02        
Lakeland     0.71        
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ziggy on March 03, 2010, 04:24:15 PM
Looks like a video feed will be available for the Knights/Green Knights matchup:
http://www.calvin.edu/sports/womens/basketball/ (http://www.calvin.edu/sports/news/comments/womens-basketball-team-headed-to-wiconsin-to-face-st.-nobert-wi-in-ncaa-iii/)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KNIGHTRHOPE on March 04, 2010, 09:04:11 AM
Quote from: sac on March 03, 2010, 11:13:57 AM
Quote from: Preto on March 03, 2010, 10:36:10 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 01, 2010, 03:42:35 PM
All MIAA teams announced - Verkaik is named the MVP.

http://www.miaa.org/wbb/

I'm more than a little surprised to see only two Hope women on the All-MIAA team ... what am I missing here? Seems like all five Dutch starters (as well as a few off the bench) would start on any other MIAA team


That may or may not be the case.  I think most likely the Hope women don't have the stats like the other women do because they play fewer minutes per game in Morehouse's system.  Not a single Hope player made the most minutes played list for the conference season.  http://miaa.org/wbb/stats/0910/confonly.htm ........in fact you'll find very few Hope players in many of the individual stat leaders categories.

In MIAA play

Greene 21.4 min
Snikkers 17.4
Bruinsma 19.1
Ellis 18.8
Cowen 19.2
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on March 04, 2010, 09:25:27 AM
Anyone recall if there is a women's preview like the men's preview posted on the front page? As I recall there usually is. I know there is still time, just curious.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sumfun on March 04, 2010, 10:40:38 AM
I'm sure there will be as in other years, but the women don't start until tomorrow so should be up today or tomorrow morning.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on March 04, 2010, 10:49:15 AM
Quote from: sumfun on March 04, 2010, 10:40:38 AM
I'm sure there will be as in other years, but the women don't start until tomorrow so should be up today or tomorrow morning.

Thanks. That had been my vague recollection but I wasn't certain.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dumexrules on March 04, 2010, 11:05:10 AM
Quote from: sac on March 03, 2010, 11:13:57 AM
Quote from: Preto on March 03, 2010, 10:36:10 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 01, 2010, 03:42:35 PM
All MIAA teams announced - Verkaik is named the MVP.

http://www.miaa.org/wbb/

I'm more than a little surprised to see only two Hope women on the All-MIAA team ... what am I missing here? Seems like all five Dutch starters (as well as a few off the bench) would start on any other MIAA team


That may or may not be the case.  I think most likely the Hope women don't have the stats like the other women do because they play fewer minutes per game in Morehouse's system.  Not a single Hope player made the most minutes played list for the conference season.  http://miaa.org/wbb/stats/0910/confonly.htm ........in fact you'll find very few Hope players in many of the individual stat leaders categories.

In MIAA play

Greene 21.4 min
Snikkers 17.4
Bruinsma 19.1
Ellis 18.8
Cowen 19.2

I think the league coaches are more than able to overlook stats in selecting an all-league team...it is more likely that each team be represented...having watched quite a few games...the players representing each school would more than likely start on every other team in the league...(I do think that Hope has more 2nd teamers that would start on many other teams...Miranda DeKuiper comes to mind.)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 04, 2010, 11:52:05 AM
Quote from: ChicagoHopeNut on March 04, 2010, 10:49:15 AM
Quote from: sumfun on March 04, 2010, 10:40:38 AM
I'm sure there will be as in other years, but the women don't start until tomorrow so should be up today or tomorrow morning.

Thanks. That had been my vague recollection but I wasn't certain.

Yes, in previous years because the women started first I rolled the women's preview out on Wednesday. This year, there's no Wednesday game so the order is flopped.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hwbb on March 05, 2010, 10:42:49 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 04, 2010, 11:52:05 AM
Quote from: ChicagoHopeNut on March 04, 2010, 10:49:15 AM
Quote from: sumfun on March 04, 2010, 10:40:38 AM
I'm sure there will be as in other years, but the women don't start until tomorrow so should be up today or tomorrow morning.

Thanks. That had been my vague recollection but I wasn't certain.

Yes, in previous years because the women started first I rolled the women's preview out on Wednesday. This year, there's no Wednesday game so the order is flopped.

And so now the preview is out. Pat, as an observer of all things D3 and without the one-team biases of most of us, I'd be very interested in how you'd answer your own big question posed in the "Illinois Wesleyan" bracket: "Is it possible for one team to host all the way through to the national championship game? Hope didn't have the chance to do that either of the past two years, once because the men were hosting and last year because of the dreaded geographic proximity clause. If the Titans escape the first weekend, will they be sent on the road and required to earn their way back home?"

What do you think: Should IWU--or any team, for that matter, men or women--be able to play for a national championship without ever leaving its home court?

Of course, we'd also be happy to hear the views of Mr. Ypsi on this one... :-)

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on March 05, 2010, 10:53:34 AM
Nope! If Hope wins and IWU wins I sure hope we see IWU in Holland next weekend. Sorry Mr. Ypsi.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 05, 2010, 11:31:14 AM
Quote from: Hwbb on March 05, 2010, 10:42:49 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 04, 2010, 11:52:05 AM
Quote from: ChicagoHopeNut on March 04, 2010, 10:49:15 AM
Quote from: sumfun on March 04, 2010, 10:40:38 AM
I'm sure there will be as in other years, but the women don't start until tomorrow so should be up today or tomorrow morning.

Thanks. That had been my vague recollection but I wasn't certain.

Yes, in previous years because the women started first I rolled the women's preview out on Wednesday. This year, there's no Wednesday game so the order is flopped.

And so now the preview is out. Pat, as an observer of all things D3 and without the one-team biases of most of us, I'd be very interested in how you'd answer your own big question posed in the "Illinois Wesleyan" bracket: "Is it possible for one team to host all the way through to the national championship game? Hope didn't have the chance to do that either of the past two years, once because the men were hosting and last year because of the dreaded geographic proximity clause. If the Titans escape the first weekend, will they be sent on the road and required to earn their way back home?"

What do you think: Should IWU--or any team, for that matter, men or women--be able to play for a national championship without ever leaving its home court?

Of course, we'd also be happy to hear the views of Mr. Ypsi on this one... :-)




The bracket suggests IWU is the top seed in that sectional and probably in line to host.  The sectional will most likely require one flight from the winner of the Marymount pod.....though I'm not positive.

Howard Payne was the top seed in the 2008 bracket Hope was in and hosted........George Fox was the top seed last year, but the sectional went to Thomas More for travels reasons I'm sure.

There's no real way to tell until you know all 4 teams advancing and their geographic distribution.



I think its probably more important that the focus be on being the team to come out of this weekends pod, than who hosts next weekend. :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 05, 2010, 12:22:10 PM
Hosting for the sectional round will probably come down to the bottom pod of Marymount, Scranton, Medaille, Lebanon Valley.

I would bet Hope will get to host over IWU if Medaille comes out of the Marymount pod. Otherwise it will probably go to IWU.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 05, 2010, 12:27:27 PM
Quote from: ChicagoHopeNut on March 05, 2010, 10:53:34 AM
Nope! If Hope wins and IWU wins I sure hope we see IWU in Holland next weekend. Sorry Mr. Ypsi.

His Titans wouldn't get homecourt, but the trek to Holland is easier made from Ypsilanti than the trek to Bloomington, so it wouldn't be all bad for the venerable Mr. Y.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 05, 2010, 12:44:33 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 05, 2010, 12:27:27 PM
Quote from: ChicagoHopeNut on March 05, 2010, 10:53:34 AM
Nope! If Hope wins and IWU wins I sure hope we see IWU in Holland next weekend. Sorry Mr. Ypsi.

His Titans wouldn't get homecourt, but the trek to Holland is easier made from Ypsilanti than the trek to Bloomington, so it wouldn't be all bad for the venerable Mr. Y.

You beat me to it!  I'd have no problem with hoping to visit DeVos rather than Shirk; just as long as the Titans still get to host their own FF the next weekend! ;D

I haven't had the guts to broach the subject of attending BOTH weekends yet, but I'm now leaning towards attending the Sectional rather than risk having NO weekend to attend.

And personally, I think the sectional WILL be in Holland.  While there is no written rule against a team staying home the whole tourney, I have a feeling there is an unwritten rule against it.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 05, 2010, 04:20:52 PM
My personal prefrence would be to see Calvin win the St. Norbert pod, and have Calvin host. :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on March 05, 2010, 05:12:36 PM
Quote from: realist on March 05, 2010, 04:20:52 PM
My personal prefrence would be to see Calvin win the St. Norbert pod, and have Calvin host. :)

Today realist is not so realistic ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on March 05, 2010, 06:21:56 PM
DePauw has more than doubled up Lakeland already.

Looks like DePauw wil get the winner of Hope-Denison tomorrow night.

Go Hope!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on March 05, 2010, 08:53:00 PM
Hope women up 20 with 5 to go.

Calvin women up 13-4 after 5 minutes played
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 05, 2010, 09:02:47 PM
Quote from: almcguirejr on March 05, 2010, 08:53:00 PM
Hope women up 20 with 5 to go.

Calvin women up 13-4 after 5 minutes played

Are the Calvin stats frozen?


Looks like Hope/DePauw Saturday night in Holland.  Should be a tough defensive game, but I think most of us knew that already.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on March 05, 2010, 09:06:43 PM
Quote from: sac on March 05, 2010, 09:02:47 PM
Quote from: almcguirejr on March 05, 2010, 08:53:00 PM
Hope women up 20 with 5 to go.

Calvin women up 13-4 after 5 minutes played

Are the Calvin stats frozen?


Livestats are frozen

19-16 Calvin.  Too many turnovers
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on March 05, 2010, 09:12:01 PM
25-19 Calvin with about 6 to go 1st half.

Verkaik on bench with 2 fouls.
St. Norberts league MVP player is also on bench with 2 fouls.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: MaroonKnighty on March 05, 2010, 09:22:17 PM
Got video but no audio  :-\
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on March 05, 2010, 09:27:25 PM
Calvin 33-31 at the half.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 05, 2010, 09:29:09 PM
Calvin up by 2 at the half, but my worst fear has occured.  Turnovers one after the other.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on March 05, 2010, 09:35:55 PM
Quote from: realist on March 05, 2010, 09:29:09 PM
Calvin up by 2 at the half, but my worst fear has occured.  Turnovers one after the other.

19 TURNOVERS IN THE FIRST HALF  ::) :-[
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 05, 2010, 10:02:19 PM
the hope  girls played pretty good tonight a big test  sat  night at  7.00
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: fannie on March 05, 2010, 10:04:10 PM
Game time at Hope is 7:00pm, not 7:30.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: MaroonKnighty on March 05, 2010, 10:23:34 PM
calvin down by 5 with just over a minute to go.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: MaroonKnighty on March 05, 2010, 10:25:32 PM
Calvin fouls, down by 9, 29 seconds to go, the hay is in the barn.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on March 05, 2010, 10:26:26 PM
Calvin loses 78-67
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: MaroonKnighty on March 05, 2010, 10:29:30 PM
St. Norbert's sweeps the MIAA.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on March 06, 2010, 12:15:28 PM
Really surprised Calvin lost last night. I expected to see them in the second weekend.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 06, 2010, 02:42:45 PM
CHN   Like you I really expected more of Calvin.  Sadly they reverted to a problem that has plaqued them for sometime now, turnovers.   It didn't help matters that the officals interpreted the rules relating to what is traveling on the step through move which is a large part of CV's game different than what Calvin was used to seeing.  Hopefully Calvin will bring in some players that can handle pressure, and avoid turnovers.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 06, 2010, 08:41:07 PM
Hope 68  DePauw 54

DePauw scored the first 9 of the second half to tie it, but Hope pulled away and win their 60th consecutive home game at DeVos Fieldhouse.


Hope will play Marymount, Va in the Sweet 16, location to be determined.  Marymount is ranked #7, is 27-1 on the season and has given up 60 points just once this season.

Stevens Point, Wi is the 3rd team in the sectional ranked #23.

The fourth team will be the winner of #3 Illinois Wesleyan and Simpson, Ia.  IWU seems most likely to host this sectional with a win.


This will be Hope's 4th trip to the Sweet 16 in the last 5 tournaments.  Go Dutch!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on March 06, 2010, 08:49:47 PM
Quote from: sac on March 06, 2010, 08:41:07 PM
Hope 68  DePauw 54

DePauw scored the first 9 of the second half to tie it, but Hope pulled away and win their 60th consecutive home game at DeVos Fieldhouse.


Hope will play Marymount, Va in the Sweet 16, location to be determined.  Marymount is ranked #7, is 27-1 on the season and has given up 60 points just once this season.

Stevens Point, Wi is the 3rd team in the sectional ranked #23.

The fourth team will be the winner of #3 Illinois Wesleyan and Simpson, Ia.  IWU seems most likely to host this sectional with a win.


This will be Hope's 4th trip to the Sweet 16 in the last 5 tournaments.  Go Dutch!

IWU is up 32-16 at the half.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 06, 2010, 08:56:13 PM
al beat me to it.  Both teams shooting abysmally - 26% for IWU, 21% for Simpson (and flat out zero for seven from long range).  Currently the Titans have given up 16 points and forced 14 turnovers - come on, you can do the defensive slam! :o

FWIW, I still expect the sectional to be in Holland.  While there appears to be no written rule against it, I just don't think the NCAA would allow a team to stay home the whole tourney.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on March 06, 2010, 09:18:48 PM
I agree with Mr. Y. Hope didn't get to host the sectional the last two years, for what seems to be precisely that reason. I expect it to be in Holland also.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 06, 2010, 09:40:03 PM
Quote from: HopeConvert on March 06, 2010, 09:18:48 PM
I agree with Mr. Y. Hope didn't get to host the sectional the last two years, for what seems to be precisely that reason. I expect it to be in Holland also.

I don't think 2008 or 2009 was because Hope was hosting the final four........Howard Payne was the top team in the bracket the whole way in 2008.......it was a sectional that required flights one way or another, so Howard Payne hosted.  Remember Hope wore their road blues, which suggest HP was the higher seeded team.

Last year the top team in the bracket was George Fox, them hosting would require 3 flights.........Hope hosting last year would have required 2 flights...........Thomas More 1, so Thomas More hosted.

This year IWU is the top team in the bracket, only Marymount Va would be a flight (I think) for any of the other hosts.  If the NCAA is going to make a statement about not having homecourt all the way through, having Hope host would be their statement.


But Hope certainly hasn't caught many breaks in the hosting and pairings department during this run of tournament years.


*  by top team in the bracket I mean literally the team at the top of the bracket, which signifies the highest seed in each 16 team sectional.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on March 06, 2010, 09:58:35 PM
Here's what I thought was a big moment in the game:

Quote
                                                              08:19  49-40  H 9     GOOD! JUMPER by Katie Aldrich [PNT]
                                                              08:19                      ASSIST by Brooke Osborne
MISSED 3 PTR by Liz Ellis                          08:05
REBOUND (OFF) by Carrie Snikkers            08:05
GOOD! JUMPER by Carrie Snikkers [PNT]    08:00  51-40  H 11
GOOD! FT SHOT by Carrie Snikkers            08:00  52-40  H 12  FOUL by Katie Aldrich
BLOCK by Meredith Kussmaul                     07:47                     MISSED JUMPER by Ellie Pearson

I mention this because a Hope player, I think it was Kussmaul, was pretty clearly over the back of a DePauw player on the rebound, which got tipped directly to Carrie, who got the putback and the foul. Had the refs called it - and they should have- it would have been a one-and-one the other way for DePauw. Instead of maybe a 7 point lead, Hope had a 12-point lead and never looked back. Not sure it would have altered the final outcome, as I think Hope was the better team, but it was a difference maker.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on March 06, 2010, 10:07:26 PM
IWU defeats Simpson 83-53
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on March 06, 2010, 10:09:21 PM
Good Hope win tonight.

Miranda DeKuiper hit a couple 3's  that took a little wind out of DePauw's sails. After DePauw went a 9-0 run after halftime to tie the score 32-32. DeKuiper hit a 3 to go up 35-32, then 1:11 later hit a 3 to go up 40-34.

Never seen Snikkers as physical. she had numerous plays where she put a shoulder into the defender in the post to score, she probably should have made a couple more baskets. I was surprised she didn't get an offensive foul on at least one of those.

The offensive rebound edge, 23-12 for DePauw, was weird. A lot of DePauw missed shots went right back to the shooter and mostly were missed again. All of DePauw's shots were highly contested.

Real physical game for both sides, bodies on the floor, once a DePauw player was held back from going after a Hope player. On a separate play,  Kutney got a technical for arguing a call.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AndersDY on March 06, 2010, 10:18:09 PM
Quote from: HopeConvert on March 06, 2010, 09:58:35 PM
Here's what I thought was a big moment in the game:

Quote
                                                              08:19  49-40  H 9     GOOD! JUMPER by Katie Aldrich [PNT]
                                                              08:19                      ASSIST by Brooke Osborne
MISSED 3 PTR by Liz Ellis                          08:05
REBOUND (OFF) by Carrie Snikkers            08:05
GOOD! JUMPER by Carrie Snikkers [PNT]    08:00  51-40  H 11
GOOD! FT SHOT by Carrie Snikkers            08:00  52-40  H 12  FOUL by Katie Aldrich
BLOCK by Meredith Kussmaul                     07:47                     MISSED JUMPER by Ellie Pearson

I mention this because a Hope player, I think it was Kussmaul, was pretty clearly over the back of a DePauw player on the rebound, which got tipped directly to Carrie, who got the putback and the foul. Had the refs called it - and they should have- it would have been a one-and-one the other way for DePauw. Instead of maybe a 7 point lead, Hope had a 12-point lead and never looked back. Not sure it would have altered the final outcome, as I think Hope was the better team, but it was a difference maker.

Miranda getting a couple 3's close together was a big swing in Hope's favor as well. There were definitely some calls on which the DePauw crowd was right to object, but if over-the-back started getting called closely, I think a few of those would have been called on DePauw as well. DePauw certainly killed us in rebounding, and not always because of fouls; I saw 23 offensive boards in the live-stats late in the game which I can't ever remember hearing in any game, men's or women's.

Hopefully we'll get the chance next weekend to beat a team to prevent them from hosting their own Final Four, to get a measure of payback from the last 2 years.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dothedew on March 06, 2010, 10:18:35 PM
I'm not sure about looking at one simple non-call to swing an entire game...
I think one of the big plays was the Hope offensive Rebound at the end of the first half and then the 2 free throws...even though DePauw made a layup at the end of the half to cut it to 9.
This is the first time I have seen the Hope women play since I saw them win the NCAA's a few years ago. In fact, that year I also saw the "infamous" Hope/DePauw game in Greencastle. That is why this victory was extra sweet for the Dutch. There is ZERO love loss (or is it lost???) between these two programs.
Either way...congrats to the dutch and HOPEfully I can attend in Holland next weekend.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 06, 2010, 10:26:20 PM
Is revenue a factor in sectional location?  IWU listed attendance for its games this weekend at 1375 and 1400 (suspiciously round numbers, and their gym looked nowhere near capacity when I visited the very nice video stream).  Hope listed its weekend's attendance at 1806 and 1995.  (BTW, if normally attendance seems overestimated relative to the 3079 capacity + upper level chairs, tonight that number seems low, given the near full house, which made for an electric atmosphere.)

Perhaps revenue + justice + facility could equal Hope's hosting.  Plus maybe a little consideration from the NCAA after what Hope put out the last two years in being a good host?   :)

Looking at the IWU box scores, I see that their already superb team got stronger with a mid season DI transfer who led the team last night with 19 points in 23 minutes.  Regardless of location, the way they are crushing opponents suggests that they're going to be one tough team for anyone to defeat.  Ypsi must be smiling.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AndersDY on March 06, 2010, 10:46:08 PM
There is no way that 1995 was the correct number for tonight. It certainly was not a sellout, but the stands were definitely not more than 1/3 empty.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 06, 2010, 11:01:12 PM
I took in tonight's contest at DeVos and can say that hard fought matchups between good teams are sure easy to enjoy when you have no dog in the fight. There was even a Kevin VandeStreek sighting at the game.

Depauw has a nice club, is well disciplined, and plays hard on the defensive end. But in the end they just got mentally and physically exhausted taking on wave after wave of Hope reserves and a highly motivated Snikkers who saw 26 minutes of action. Carrie was more assertive on offense, taking 15 shots, and was quite disruptive on the defensive end with 6 blocks. The Tigers shot less than 30% from the floor but they got few good looks. In addition to DeKuiper, I thought Kussmaul was again highly effective off the bench for Hope.


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 06, 2010, 11:06:14 PM
Quote from: AndersDY on March 06, 2010, 10:46:08 PM
There is no way that 1995 was the correct number for tonight. It certainly was not a sellout, but the stands were definitely not more than 1/3 empty.

I agree that 1995 seems to be a bit low. Maybe Hope only is counting those who entered on a ticket sold for tonight's contest. Seriously.

I bought my ticket at Hope early this afternoon and after walking away from the ticket window my eagle eye noticed the print on the ticket read "Women's Round 1, Friday, March 5, 2010." Hmm, I thought, how did the young lady know I was such a gullible Knight? I briefly considered showing up at the gate in the evening,  wait to get denied entrance on a stale ticket, and then pursue contentious litigation against Hope based on the Michigan Consumer Protection Act among other legal theories. I couldn't wait to put Tom Renner in the dock to undergo a withering direct examination. The mind raced with possibilities. Then I remembered that to do so would require the talents of a skilled lawyer. I quickly returned to the ticket window for a replacement. I know the staff unwittingly sold a number of last night's tickets before I pointed out the problem.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: SKOT on March 06, 2010, 11:43:28 PM
Quote from: pointlem on March 06, 2010, 10:26:20 PM
Is revenue a factor in sectional location?  

Quote
The Championships Committee has prioritized the following site-selection criteria
for all championships:
1. Quality and availability of the facility and other necessary accommodations;
2. Geographical location (which may include such factors as rotation of sites, weather,
accessibility and transportation costs);
3. Seeding; and
4. Attendance history and revenue potential, which shall be considered necessary to
assure fiscal responsibility.

This is from the 2009 tournament handbook.  I am assuming the criteria have not changes over the last year.  The words that strike me as interesting are the "rotation of sites" in #2.  Does that mean that they do not want teams hosting 6 (or even 4) games in a row if there are other deserving teams by their criteria?

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on March 06, 2010, 11:58:31 PM
I hadn't looked super closely at the women's bracket before tonight but the more I look at it the more reiminiscent it is of the hard road the National Championship team had a few years ago.

Hope met #11 DePauw tonight. #7 Marymount next Friday and the possibility of meeting #3 IWU should both Hope and IWU win.  That's an incredibly tough road just to reach the Final Four.


Marymount did meet Adrian down in Ft. Lauderdale and won 66-58 in December so that is the only common opponent reference point I saw.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on March 07, 2010, 07:13:12 AM
Article from Holland Sentinel:

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/sports/sports_hope/x324650864/Big-play-from-reserve-guard-helps-Hope-advance-in-NCAA-D-III-womens-hoops-tourney

Video: http://www.hollandsentinel.com/sports/sports_hope/x2096602844/VIDEO-Flying-Dutch-down-DePauw-in-NCAA-D-III-Tourney

Grand Rapids Press Article: http://www.mlive.com/smallcolleges/grandrapids/index.ssf/2010/03/hope_women_beat_depauw_advance.html
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 07, 2010, 08:00:49 AM
Quote from: ChicagoHopeNut on March 06, 2010, 11:58:31 PM
I hadn't looked super closely at the women's bracket before tonight but the more I look at it the more reiminiscent it is of the hard road the National Championship team had a few years ago.

Hope met #11 DePauw tonight. #7 Marymount next Friday and the possibility of meeting #3 IWU should both Hope and IWU win.  That's an incredibly tough road just to reach the Final Four.

Good observation, ChicagoHopeNut.  And continuing to the next weekend, they would potentially have #2 Kean and #1 Amherst in the semi-final and final game.  Clearly, Hope, by possibly having to face five of the top 11 teams, has the hardest possible road, and Amherst, with none of the other top four teams on its side, might seem to have the easiest.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: fannie on March 07, 2010, 10:30:26 AM
.... an excellent coaching move by the Hope staff - putting DeKuiper and Kussmaul into the game after the 6 minute scoring drought that started Hope's second half last night - SOMETHING needed to change after a number of missed shots close to the basket from the starting five. 

ANY idea when sectional sites will be announced????  I'm trying to be patient!!!!   ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: rorurap on March 07, 2010, 12:18:43 PM
Now the tougher "road" will be for the team that has to go on the road to play in the sectionals.  Its not just WHO you play but WHERE you play them.......
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 07, 2010, 12:29:29 PM
Sounds like Amherst and Wash U have heard... Is there a time for an official announcement?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on March 07, 2010, 12:30:21 PM
Hope travels to IWU for the next round this Friday.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: cmlundy on March 07, 2010, 12:30:58 PM
IWU appears to be the host site for next weekend.

Bunch of BS by the NCAA.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 07, 2010, 12:31:38 PM
Officially? That sucks!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on March 07, 2010, 12:32:53 PM
Go to the NCAA site and click on their bracket, highlight Hope's game, shows the Shirk Center.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 07, 2010, 12:37:57 PM
What a pile of bovine scat!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dothedew on March 07, 2010, 12:45:13 PM
Sadly, this was expected. Still, it is a shame to think that the flying dutch weren't given the same opportunity the two years the finals were in Holland.
Oh well, let's go Dutch!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 07, 2010, 12:52:11 PM
I guess to put it in perspective, we won a National championship without a single tournament game at home.  We've done it before, and we can do it again.  It's jsut disappointing.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 07, 2010, 01:07:25 PM
Quote from: sac on March 06, 2010, 09:40:03 PM
Quote from: HopeConvert on March 06, 2010, 09:18:48 PM
I agree with Mr. Y. Hope didn't get to host the sectional the last two years, for what seems to be precisely that reason. I expect it to be in Holland also.

I don't think 2008 or 2009 was because Hope was hosting the final four........Howard Payne was the top team in the bracket the whole way in 2008.......it was a sectional that required flights one way or another, so Howard Payne hosted.  Remember Hope wore their road blues, which suggest HP was the higher seeded team.

Last year the top team in the bracket was George Fox, them hosting would require 3 flights.........Hope hosting last year would have required 2 flights...........Thomas More 1, so Thomas More hosted.

This year IWU is the top team in the bracket, only Marymount Va would be a flight (I think) for any of the other hosts.  If the NCAA is going to make a statement about not having homecourt all the way through, having Hope host would be their statement.


But Hope certainly hasn't caught many breaks in the hosting and pairings department during this run of tournament years.


*  by top team in the bracket I mean literally the team at the top of the bracket, which signifies the highest seed in each 16 team sectional.



Where and how Hope has been seeded in the tournament has been the issue.  Not how the hosting has worked out.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ultrabayer on March 07, 2010, 01:22:32 PM
Sorry, but seeding didn't have anything to do with it last year when they were seeded higher.  Last year it was geographical issues...always seems to be something working against the Flying Dutch
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on March 07, 2010, 01:49:43 PM
Quote from: ultrabayer on March 07, 2010, 01:22:32 PM
Sorry, but seeding didn't have anything to do with it last year when they were seeded higher.  Last year it was geographical issues...always seems to be something working against the Flying Dutch

A possible theme song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwGqLaHtmbU
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: iwumichigander on March 07, 2010, 02:09:43 PM
Quote from: ultrabayer on March 07, 2010, 01:22:32 PM
Sorry, but seeding didn't have anything to do with it last year when they were seeded higher.  Last year it was geographical issues...always seems to be something working against the Flying Dutch
You are correct (above).  And, the first year the "even/odd" rule contributed.  However, this season seeding did have an impact with IWU women seeded higher than Hope women.

Could it be that Hope, and its fans, take a different perspective?  If Hope women prevails in this sectional, Hope will have two games on the Final Four court.  An advantage three other teams will likely take except to!  (And, yes, three teams will likely take more exception if IWU prevails.)

Both Hope and IWU have to win a round before a potential Elite 8 match-up.  On paper, a Hope and IWU contest seems to be a match-up of equals.  It would certainly be an interesting contest.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AndersDY on March 07, 2010, 02:11:44 PM
No home games in 2006. No home games (other than the potential Final Four) as an undefeated in 2008. To put it lightly, let's just say the NCAA owes us one.

Brought to you by the people who believe the best way to crown a champion is to throw 100 sports writers and a couple computers in a blender and see what 2 teams it spits out each January.

A tribute: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92miS5edOao&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92miS5edOao&feature=related)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AndersDY on March 07, 2010, 02:18:21 PM
Quote from: iwumichigander on March 07, 2010, 02:09:43 PM
Could it be that Hope, and its fans, take a different perspective?  If Hope women prevails in this sectional, Hope will have two games on the Final Four court.  An advantage three other teams will likely take except to!  (And, yes, three teams will likely take more exception if IWU prevails.)

... but we've got some lovely parting gifts for you. That's a pretty thin silver lining to reach for.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ultrabayer on March 07, 2010, 02:26:44 PM
The only perspective I take is that no matter the circumstance in this day and age, no team should have the overwhelming advantage of playing all games at home on the way to a national championship.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 07, 2010, 02:27:58 PM
It will probably surprise some, but even as a Titan fan I was hoping for the Sectional to be in Holland - for the selfish reason that I would have been there!  No way can I justify going to Bloomington on consecutive weekends. :(

Since I won't be at the Sectional, I'll cross my fingers that I have a Titan FF in my future.

Good luck to Hope - but not too much of it, please! ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on March 07, 2010, 02:44:41 PM
I am not surprised the sectional is at IWU. I think it was all but assured as soon as Calvin loss. Strangely, maybe with the geography issue, etc. Calvin's presence would have made it a bit more likely Hope could have hosted.

It's hard to argue against IWU hosting in most years but they fact they could win it all without ever leaving Blo-No sure won't sit right with any other team in D3. Not just those stuck at IWU this coming weekend.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: iwumichigander on March 07, 2010, 02:44:49 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 07, 2010, 02:27:58 PM
It will probably surprise some, but even as a Titan fan I was hoping for the Sectional to be in Holland - for the selfish reason that I would have been there!  No way can I justify going to Bloomington on consecutive weekends. :(

Since I won't be at the Sectional, I'll cross my fingers that I have a Titan FF in my future.

Good luck to Hope - but not too much of it, please! ;)
I somewhat agree.  It certainly would have been less travel and an easy decision to be in Holland this weekend versus the current decision tree: go to Bloomington for the women's sectional, go to Steven's Point for the men's or stay home, save shiny pennies and watch both on the web?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: iwumichigander on March 07, 2010, 02:52:48 PM
Quote from: ChicagoHopeNut on March 07, 2010, 02:44:41 PM
I am not surprised the sectional is at IWU. I think it was all but assured as soon as Calvin loss. Strangely, maybe with the geography issue, etc. Calvin's presence would have made it a bit more likely Hope could have hosted.

It's hard to argue against IWU hosting in most years but they fact they could win it all without ever leaving Blo-No sure won't sit right with any other team in D3. Not just those stuck at IWU this coming weekend.
I think I can write for Mr Ypsi, myself and most of the Titan Nation that we understand some, most or maybe all other teams won't be happy.  IWU did not pick itself as a Final Four location any more than Hope did the past two years.  Its an NCAA Division III, and with the input of its D3 committee, decision.

However, as I posted on the CCIW board (without going into the various factors), this year IWU would have been the sectional host in this given bracket regardless of the location of the Final Four.
Title: Re: MIAA NCAA Sectionals Food for thought
Post by: rorurap on March 07, 2010, 03:34:24 PM
It appears that teams like Marymount  are an afterthought in all of this and a road trip to the Sectionals was going to happen anyway.   I will offer a comment that will give the IWU and Hope posters a moment to catch their breath.  Imagine being able to travel to 2 sectional sites ( Kean and Amherst)  and still have to travel further than Hope has to travel to IWU.  Now imagine you are not going to those closer sites and are heading 758 miles to IWU.  I hope the 50 or so Marymount fans who might make the trip are well received and appreciated.  ( Stevens Point's big fan base will not be as challenged to make the 300 mile trek).       
Title: Re: MIAA NCAA Sectionals Food for thought
Post by: iwumichigander on March 07, 2010, 04:43:41 PM
Quote from: rorurap on March 07, 2010, 03:34:24 PM
It appears that teams like Marymount  are an afterthought in all of this and a road trip to the Sectionals was going to happen anyway.   I will offer a comment that will give the IWU and Hope posters a moment to catch their breath.  Imagine being able to travel to 2 sectional sites ( Kean and Amherst)  and still have to travel further than Hope has to travel to IWU.  Now imagine you are not going to those closer sites and are heading 758 miles to IWU.  I hope the 50 or so Marymount fans who might make the trip are well received and appreciated.  ( Stevens Point's big fan base will not be as challenged to make the 300 mile trek).       
rorurap - IWU and Hope, with their long tournament histories, have had the same experience that Marymount fans face in this sectional.  We don't have to imagine it, we've done it.

You will find IWU a good experienced host.  It is fair to also say that Hope, Steven's Point and IWU have strong fan bases both at home and on the road.  Both IWU and Steven's Point fans have tough choices to make Sectional weekend as the men will be in the Steven's Point Men's Sectional which may impact attendance in Bloomington this upcoming weekend.  And, IWU starts its Spring Break Friday, March 12
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on March 07, 2010, 04:54:42 PM
I just don't like the treatment that Amherst Kean has gotten. Hope has ten top twenty-five team in their region. that includes Hope.
Amherst has four Top Twenty-five teams.
Kean has three Top Twenty-Five temas.
Amherst is in Massachusetts and Kean is i New Jersey. they could have easily dispursed someof these teams between the three regions at least somewhat better.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on March 07, 2010, 05:15:57 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on March 07, 2010, 04:54:42 PM
I just don't like the treatment that Amherst Kean has gotten. Hope has ten top twenty-five team in their region. that includes Hope.
Amherst has four Top Twenty-five teams.
Kean has three Top Twenty-Five temas.
Amherst is in Massachusetts and Kean is i New Jersey. they could have easily dispursed someof these teams between the three regions at least somewhat better.

Could they have? Yes

Will they ever do that? No.  The financial reality will keep the NCAA from balancing regions unless the top teams are conveniently spread out geographically.  Some years are better than others but at the D3 level year in and year out one or two regions tend to be far harder than the other regions.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: rorurap on March 07, 2010, 05:39:44 PM
"rorurap - IWU and Hope, with their long tournament histories, have had the same experience that Marymount fans face in this sectional.  We don't have to imagine it, we've done it."

tell me the worse "same experience" so I can feel better about our 758 mile trek. 

Also I agree with everyone that this is the toughest Regional.......... 3 top ten teams and 4 top 25 teams in one Sectional. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 07, 2010, 06:32:18 PM
Quote from: iwumichigander on March 07, 2010, 02:52:48 PM
Quote from: ChicagoHopeNut on March 07, 2010, 02:44:41 PM
I am not surprised the sectional is at IWU. I think it was all but assured as soon as Calvin loss. Strangely, maybe with the geography issue, etc. Calvin's presence would have made it a bit more likely Hope could have hosted.

It's hard to argue against IWU hosting in most years but they fact they could win it all without ever leaving Blo-No sure won't sit right with any other team in D3. Not just those stuck at IWU this coming weekend.
I think I can write for Mr Ypsi, myself and most of the Titan Nation that we understand some, most or maybe all other teams won't be happy.  IWU did not pick itself as a Final Four location any more than Hope did the past two years.  Its an NCAA Division III, and with the input of its D3 committee, decision.
However, as I posted on the CCIW board (without going into the various factors), this year IWU would have been the sectional host in this given bracket regardless of the location of the Final Four.

Just to be factually correct, both schools went through a lot of work (and probably expense) to bid for the opportunity to host.  To say they had nothing to do with it is - well, just false.   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 07, 2010, 06:52:33 PM
Quote from: rorurap on March 07, 2010, 05:39:44 PM
"rorurap - IWU and Hope, with their long tournament histories, have had the same experience that Marymount fans face in this sectional.  We don't have to imagine it, we've done it."

tell me the worse "same experience" so I can feel better about our 758 mile trek. 

Also I agree with everyone that this is the toughest Regional.......... 3 top ten teams and 4 top 25 teams in one Sectional. 

2008 the Hope women played their sectional in Dallas - that's over 1000 miles

It's only 678 from Marymount to Hope.  :) 

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 07, 2010, 07:16:08 PM
A little history lesson.....


Hope's first National Championship came in 1990.......the Dutch never left Holland, MI.

This was back when the Final Four site was chosen the week before the game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: iwumichigander on March 07, 2010, 08:08:27 PM
Quote from: rorurap on March 07, 2010, 05:39:44 PM
"rorurap - IWU and Hope, with their long tournament histories, have had the same experience that Marymount fans face in this sectional.  We don't have to imagine it, we've done it."

tell me the worse "same experience" so I can feel better about our 758 mile trek. 

Also I agree with everyone that this is the toughest Regional.......... 3 top ten teams and 4 top 25 teams in one Sectional. 
OK, here is mine:  2003 IWU sent to Randolph-Macon Sectional in Ashland, Va.  and our opponent Hampden-Sydney.  From Bloomington - 849 miles 13 hours 29 minutes - if you are lucky.  We were not!  We routed ourselves through Washington, D.C.; got caught in a traffic jam on the beltway, in rain, caused by an accident.  We should have gotten to Ashland 3 hours before game time.  We arrived at half time to find IWU down 36-22.  We lost 76-68, turned araound the next day and drove home.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: rorurap on March 07, 2010, 08:27:55 PM
I am glad I asked the question........... I am feeling better.  A 1000 miles to Dallas.  UGH! I think that song title won a CMA.  That Beltway traffic can really ruin a trip!!  Tell me about it.  BTW, I know Hope is closer to Marymount than IWU .   Its still 758 to IWU and I want credit for every mile!!  Ain't commin round here no more. Thanks for info. Best Regards.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on March 08, 2010, 12:09:53 AM
QuoteI just don't like the treatment that Amherst Kean has gotten. Hope has ten top twenty-five team in their region. that includes Hope.
Amherst has four Top Twenty-five teams.
Kean has three Top Twenty-Five temas.]I just don't like the treatment that Amherst Kean has gotten. Hope has ten top twenty-five team in their region. that includes Hope.
Amherst has four Top Twenty-five teams.
Kean has three Top Twenty-Five temas.

That's one way of looking at it.  I can see where you're unhappy with the distribution of the teams in the tournament if you judge it based on our Top 25.

But remember that Amherst played in a conference with four other teams who made the NCAA tournament and won at least one game.  Two of them - Bowdoin and Williams - are still going.  And if Williams gets eliminated, it'll be by Amherst.  Despite all that, Amherst went undefeated.  Hope is a great team - in fact I'd take them over Amherst head-to-head - but the MIAA is nowhere near as deep as the NESCAC.  

As for Kean, they have one loss and it's to Division I Rutgers.  Take a look at their margin of victory against Top 25 ranked Scranton and William Paterson (first meeting).  They played one ranked team in their regional, as did Hope, and beat them handily, as did Hope.

It's hard to argue against either Amherst or Kean geting to host this weekend.  Even if Hope (or DePauw, or possibily anyone else in Hope's region) was placed in the same region, the Flying Dutch would be travelling this weekend.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 08, 2010, 12:17:40 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 07, 2010, 06:52:33 PM
Quote from: rorurap on March 07, 2010, 05:39:44 PM
"rorurap - IWU and Hope, with their long tournament histories, have had the same experience that Marymount fans face in this sectional.  We don't have to imagine it, we've done it."

tell me the worse "same experience" so I can feel better about our 758 mile trek. 

Also I agree with everyone that this is the toughest Regional.......... 3 top ten teams and 4 top 25 teams in one Sectional. 

2008 the Hope women played their sectional in Dallas - that's over 1000 miles

It's only 678 from Marymount to Hope.  :) 
Not Dallas, Brownwood, TX.  Hope had a charter flight into the Brownwood airport!

Brown County, TX is sacred soil!  ;)

That Elite 8 game in the Brown County Mausoleum was a classic!

They put in a new floor, lighting and scoreboard to upgrade the facilities so HPU might have a chance to host.  They went undefeated that season, and got a perfect storm of the three teams needing fly to a sectional to make it possible.

I have no idea when/if Texas will get to host a sectional again.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 08, 2010, 01:29:23 AM
Ok, Brownwood...over 1200 miles, which just goes further to prove FDF's point.



A couple pages back, SKOT posted the prioritized list of site-selecting criteria from the 2009 tounament handbook.  I don't imagine it has changed much.

1. Quality and availability of the facility and other necessary accommodations

Both intstitutions boast top-notch facilities for the event.  There's no reason that the Shirk souldn't be considered a prime site to host.  But the DeVos Fieldhouse is also a superb facility, which the NCAA knows for reasons I don't think I need to explain here.  One glaring difference is capacity.  See below for more on this.  Another consideration here is lodging.  The NCAA requires possible host sites to inform them of other events happening locally that might affect available lodging.  Holland hosts a swim meet that weekend.  (Not alot of rooms needed for those involved--low attendance sport.)  Bloomington hosts more than a couple sports tounaments and events that weekend, as was discovered while trying to book rooms there today.  (I'm too tired right now to remember specifics...or look them up.)

2. Geographical location (which may include such factors as rotation of sites, weather, accessibility and transportation costs);

Rotation of sites...  Well, we know Hope and IWU both hosted this past weekend, and we know where the Final Four will be held.  So, the decision here went something like this: We can let one site host two in a row or the other site host three in a row.  Considering that we want to rotate sites, the obvious choice is to choose the site that will make them hosts all three weekends.   ???  Nice job.  Pat yourselves on the back.  Weather: expected to be in the 50s in Holland.  Check.  Accessibility: just a few miles off I-196 (oh, and Tulip City Airport, which Marymount could easily charter a flight to, is between I-196 and Hope).  Check.  Transportation costs:  Probably a touch more, but I can't believe by much.

3. Seeding

IWU is seeded higher than Hope.  Granted.

4. Attendance history and revenue potential, which shall be considered necesessary to assure fiscal responsibility

The Shirk is listed on d3hoops at 2600 seats, while DeVos is listed at 3400.  IWU average attendance at home, 613; Hope, 1138.  Which seems more fiscally responsible here?  And wouldn't additional revenue offset travel costs?


One (and a quarter...maybe) out of four of your own criteria ain't bad, NCAA.  Keep up the good work.   ::)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 08, 2010, 02:31:03 AM
It's been a long time since I've had to say this, but you can't buy a sectional simply by putting more bodies in the seats. This isn't a D-I bowl game or an NAIA playoff game.

You're also overstating, I believe, criteria No. 1. This is not really "who has more seats" -- it's "does the building have more than the minimum." It's a yes/no question. Answer for both is yes.

Selling 500 more seats for a guarantee of only one session is not a significant financial boost for an event that loses hundreds of thousands of dollars.

And why would it be that all criteria must be weighted equally? When both facilities meet minimum requirements, are available and the number of required flights is the same, the higher seed seems to win out on a consistent basis.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Titan Q on March 08, 2010, 07:57:31 AM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on March 08, 2010, 01:29:23 AM
Ok, Brownwood...over 1200 miles, which just goes further to prove FDF's point.



A couple pages back, SKOT posted the prioritized list of site-selecting criteria from the 2009 tounament handbook.  I don't imagine it has changed much.

1. Quality and availability of the facility and other necessary accommodations

Both intstitutions boast top-notch facilities for the event.  There's no reason that the Shirk souldn't be considered a prime site to host.  But the DeVos Fieldhouse is also a superb facility, which the NCAA knows for reasons I don't think I need to explain here.  One glaring difference is capacity.  See below for more on this.  Another consideration here is lodging.  The NCAA requires possible host sites to inform them of other events happening locally that might affect available lodging.  Holland hosts a swim meet that weekend.  (Not alot of rooms needed for those involved--low attendance sport.)  Bloomington hosts more than a couple sports tounaments and events that weekend, as was discovered while trying to book rooms there today.  (I'm too tired right now to remember specifics...or look them up.)

2. Geographical location (which may include such factors as rotation of sites, weather, accessibility and transportation costs);

Rotation of sites...  Well, we know Hope and IWU both hosted this past weekend, and we know where the Final Four will be held.  So, the decision here went something like this: We can let one site host two in a row or the other site host three in a row.  Considering that we want to rotate sites, the obvious choice is to choose the site that will make them hosts all three weekends.   ???  Nice job.  Pat yourselves on the back.  Weather: expected to be in the 50s in Holland.  Check.  Accessibility: just a few miles off I-196 (oh, and Tulip City Airport, which Marymount could easily charter a flight to, is between I-196 and Hope).  Check.  Transportation costs:  Probably a touch more, but I can't believe by much.

3. Seeding

IWU is seeded higher than Hope.  Granted.

4. Attendance history and revenue potential, which shall be considered necesessary to assure fiscal responsibility

The Shirk is listed on d3hoops at 2600 seats, while DeVos is listed at 3400.  IWU average attendance at home, 613; Hope, 1138.  Which seems more fiscally responsible here?  And wouldn't additional revenue offset travel costs?


One (and a quarter...maybe) out of four of your own criteria ain't bad, NCAA.  Keep up the good work.   ::)


Erm, where were you when the men's Sectional in 2006 (Illinois Wesleyan, Augustana, Puget Sound, Lawrence) was awarded to Lawrence and their 100-year old, 1000 seat gym, instead of IWU's Shirk Center?

Or 2003 when Illinois Wesleyan, UW-Oshkosh, Hampden-Sydney, and Randolph-Macon landed at R-M's gym, which is not even in the ballpark of the Shirk Center?

Or in 2001 when Illinois Wesleyan, Elmhurst, Lewis & Clark, and Chicago were sent to Chicago's awful Henry Crown Fieldhouse, instead of the Shirk Center?


The common thread?  The teams that ended up with these men's Sectionals were all the highest seeds remaining.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 08, 2010, 08:54:34 AM
I limited my vent to this thread because this is the MIAA thread, not the CCIW thread or the National Tournament thread, for example.  I don't expect too many sympathetic ears outside of the MIAA.   ;)

Pat, criteria #1 has to do with more than just the sports facility...it also has to do with "other necessary accomodations".  Hotel rooms were scarce already yesterday at the time of the announcement.  I'm just looking at the facts and considering them (aloud) without regard to how the NCAA weights them.   :)

I'm not asking to be confirmed or consoled.  Sometimes a person just has to vent, and discussion boards like this are a good place to do just that.  TQ, if you had asked me where I stood on your issues at those times, I probably would have said, right next to you.  But then, you didn't ask me.    :-\

I was done venting overnight, and have moved on.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on March 08, 2010, 08:55:11 AM
Speaking only for myself (but I think most seasoned Hope posters and fans would agree). I understand why IWU is hosting this weekend in light of the 4 criteria. Do I think DeVos is a superior facility and would draw higher attendance? Yes.  But Shirk is a perfectly nice D3 arena and its not as if the gym will be empty.

I think the big frustration is the fact IWU is hosting three consecutive weekends. I recognize this is a perfect storm of events and it may not happen again for 20 years (see Hope 1990) but I strongly believe no team, men or women (although as long as the men's Final Four is in Salem it can't happen), should be able to win it all without leaving home.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 08, 2010, 09:18:14 AM
The NCAA has become alot more sophisticated in their organization of the tounament.  In 1990, the women's Final Four site was not predetermined.  It was up to the schools participating to make their case for hosting the games.  I was at that championship game, and distinctly remember that Hope was not even allowed to print the words "Final Four on the tickets...or any other printed material.  The NCAA told Hope that the phrase was copywrited and made them change the wording to "Final Tour".   ::) :D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on March 08, 2010, 09:23:07 AM
I'm inclined to believe that the frustration of Dutch fans really results from 2008 and having to travel to Howard Payne and play them on their home floor. I'm guessing that most of us believe those two teams were pretty even (or that Hope was slightly superior), and that the home floor advantage was likely the difference in deciding the outcome. Most of us also believe that should have been a final four game, not an elite 8 one (even if, or maybe especially if, this would have given us home floor advantage). The result of that game has us feeling that the NCAA "owes us one." This is really not a defensible position, I'll admit. It would be unreasonable to suggest that the NCAA keeps a ledger of teams they've jobbed in the past and look for ways to compensate in the present. But being a fan isn't always, or frequently, about being reasonable.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 08, 2010, 09:26:06 AM
Quote from: ChicagoHopeNut on March 08, 2010, 08:55:11 AM
I strongly believe no team... should be able to win it all without leaving home.

Doesn't the Hope team still have something to say about this? It sounds like y'all have conceded the game already on the basis of home court!

Just suck it up, drive to Bloomington, and win the sectional. That way, IWU won't be able to play three weekends in a row on their home floor.  :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 08, 2010, 09:31:07 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 08, 2010, 09:26:06 AM
Quote from: ChicagoHopeNut on March 08, 2010, 08:55:11 AM
I strongly believe no team... should be able to win it all without leaving home.

Doesn't the Hope team still have something to say about this? It sounds like y'all have conceded the game already on the basis of home court!

Just suck it up, drive to Bloomington, and win the section. That way, IWU won't be able to play three weekends in a row on their home floor.  :)

Agreed, and +k.  This is the attitude to adopt now, and I'm sure this is where most of us are at this point...especially Coach Mo and the team.  I won't be able to go on Friday (too busy at work), but I'll be making the drive on Saturday.  (I'm proceeding with the notion that Hope will continue their winning ways, and make it to the Elite Eight.   ;)  )
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 08, 2010, 09:41:29 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 08, 2010, 09:26:06 AM
Quote from: ChicagoHopeNut on March 08, 2010, 08:55:11 AM
I strongly believe no team... should be able to win it all without leaving home.

Doesn't the Hope team still have something to say about this? It sounds like y'all have conceded the game already on the basis of home court!

Just suck it up, drive to Bloomington, and win the sectional. That way, IWU won't be able to play three weekends in a row on their home floor.  :)

I've had enough time to vent, that I agree.  It is what it is, but so what.  Every team coming into this regional has issues to deal with:

Marymount - playing 758 mile from home sucks and greatly reduces your fan base

Stevens Point - Not as far away, but their men are hosting a regional as well, so they may not get their normal fan support

IWU - Their men are playing at UWSP, which will take away some of their support.  They are also on Spring Break - taking their students away.  And they have the pressure of knowing there are no excuses for not getting to the last weekend when you get to play at home the whole way.

Hope - Fanantic fans (redundant, I know) who, despite feeling shafted, will show up and loudly support their team - it is only a 4 hour drive to Bloomington.  Not to mention, the most talented and deep team in this regional (with maybe a little extra fire over the hosting issues of the last 3 years).  OK, that's my opinion, but I haven't seen anything to prove me wrong.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Titan Q on March 08, 2010, 10:05:11 AM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on March 08, 2010, 08:54:34 AM
I was done venting overnight, and have moved on.

We all want our team to get a fair shake, and often the way the Division III tournament is setup, things just don't seem quite right.  Venting for a day is totally understandble...then it's time to go play basketball.

In following IWU's men's team over the years, I've come to love the road games vs great teams.  Games likes these...

Quote from: Titan Q on March 07, 2010, 01:44:28 AM
In the last 10 years, Illinois Wesleyan has met 5 #1 or #2-ranked teams (D3hoops.com Top 25) in the tournament...

* March 6, 2010 - IWU 75 (#1) Wash U 70 (@ Wash U) - Round 2
* March 10, 2006 - IWU 63 (#1) Lawrence 59 (@ Lawrence) - Round 3
* March 6, 2004 - IWU 77 (#2) Hanover 67 (@ Hanover) - Round 2
* March 8, 2003 - IWU 85 (#2) Wash U 73 (@ Wash U) - Round 2
* March 10, 2001 - IWU 77 (#1) Chicago 68 (@ Chicago) - Round 4


5-0 in those games - all on the other team's floor - is pretty impressive.

(These pairings - most in Rounds 2/3 - are also the reason I can't sympathize with fans who think their team has a tough road.)

In every game listed above, I watched the Titans put all of the pressure on the home team - either by executing well early and building a lead, or by hanging around and then making a run.  (In games like this, I feel like all of the pressure is on the home team.)  Hope has that same opportunity should they face IWU at the Shirk Center.

Winning at home is great, but there is just something special about winning on the road.  Hope has the opportunity to shine this weekend in Bloomington.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on March 08, 2010, 11:34:07 AM
To be a national champion, one should be able to defeat any team, any place.

Can we now put the setting behind us and start focusing on the teams?  In my mind, there are four really good teams that will be playing ant IWU next weekend.  For those in the know, what are your thoughts on the matchups and what will each team need to focus on to win this thing?  I don't have a horse in this race but it would be nice to hear some basketball talk again.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 08, 2010, 12:22:39 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on March 08, 2010, 10:05:11 AM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on March 08, 2010, 08:54:34 AM
I was done venting overnight, and have moved on.

We all want our team to get a fair shake, and often the way the Division III tournament is setup, things just don't seem quite right.  Venting for a day is totally understandble...then it's time to go play basketball.

In following IWU's men's team over the years, I've come to love the road games vs great teams.  Games likes these...

Quote from: Titan Q on March 07, 2010, 01:44:28 AM
In the last 10 years, Illinois Wesleyan has met 5 #1 or #2-ranked teams (D3hoops.com Top 25) in the tournament...

* March 6, 2010 - IWU 75 (#1) Wash U 70 (@ Wash U) - Round 2
* March 10, 2006 - IWU 63 (#1) Lawrence 59 (@ Lawrence) - Round 3
* March 6, 2004 - IWU 77 (#2) Hanover 67 (@ Hanover) - Round 2
* March 8, 2003 - IWU 85 (#2) Wash U 73 (@ Wash U) - Round 2
* March 10, 2001 - IWU 77 (#1) Chicago 68 (@ Chicago) - Round 4


5-0 in those games - all on the other team's floor - is pretty impressive.

(These pairings - most in Rounds 2/3 - are also the reason I can't sympathize with fans who think their team has a tough road.)

In every game listed above, I watched the Titans put all of the pressure on the home team - either by executing well early and building a lead, or by hanging around and then making a run.  (In games like this, I feel like all of the pressure is on the home team.)  Hope has that same opportunity should they face IWU at the Shirk Center.

Winning at home is great, but there is just something special about winning on the road.  Hope has the opportunity to shine this weekend in Bloomington.

To quote wiz, "To be a national champion, one should be able to defeat any team, any place."  Hope has shown in the past (2006) that they can do just that.  My HOPE is, they will take the opportunity to do that not just this weekend, but next as well.

GO HOPE!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on March 08, 2010, 01:15:47 PM
I've been told the Hope ticket office is trying to put together a bus package for the Sectional in Bloomington this weekend. I presume this would include a 1 night stay. Details to follow when I hear them.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 08, 2010, 03:56:29 PM
cool thank  you i am instreted  of going
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 08, 2010, 04:18:08 PM
Here's my statistical comparison of Hope and Marymount



Offense     % 2pt   % 3pt      % FT
Hope     46   32.2      70.7
Marymount     42.9   32.7      70.2
            
Defense     % 2pt   % 3pt     
Hope     34.6   24.3     
Marymount     36.9   28.9     
            
Rebounding     Team   Opp      Margin
Hope     43.5   38.4      5.1
Marymount     39.8   32.9      6.9
            
Scoring     Team   Opp      Margin
Hope     74.7   51.4      23.3
Marymount     65.4   46.8      18.6
            
3 point shooting     Attempts   Made      Made/game
Hope     556   179      6
Marymount     538   176      6.1
            
Blocks     Total   per game     
Hope     190   6.3     
Marymount     72   2.5     
            
Steals     Total   per game     
Hope     486   16.2     
Marymount     257   8.9     
            
Turnovers     Total    per game     
Hope     562   18.7     
Marymount     495   17.1     
            
Assists     Total   per game     
Hope     457   15.2     
Marymount     401   13.8     
            
Assist/Turnover             
Hope     0.81        
Marymount     0.81        
            
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 08, 2010, 04:52:30 PM
Thanks for doing this again, FDF.

Looking at these numbers last night and again just now, I get the impression that Hope plays at a higher level of intensity.  Stronger defensive numbers (shooting, blocks, steals), but also more scoring and rebounds per game for both themselves and their opponents.  Hope has more turnovers, but also more assists (note the equal a/to ratio).  If Hope can play their game, force the tempo, and hit their shots like they have in the past several game, I believe Marymount will be sent packin' after one night.

Of course, we wouldn't want our ladies to be TOO confident.  WORK HARD, DUTCH!!   ;) ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: iwumichigander on March 08, 2010, 05:52:11 PM
Thanks also FDF.  On paper, Marymount a fairly close match-up to Hope.  Marymount has made 15 years of post season NCAA tournament including 2008 and 2009.  Coach Bill Finney has been at Marymount 27 years and announced his intention to retire at the end of this season.  It is a solid program.

I think Hope has an edge on the defensive side of the ball.  And, it sure looks to me that Hope plays the stronger schedule.  With four seniors and a grad student, no lack of experience here.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: iwumichigander on March 08, 2010, 06:24:55 PM
Some info for Hope fans driving to Bloomington -

Here is the NCAA.com link for the tournament http://www.ncaa.com/sports/w-baskbl/champpage/w-baskbl-div3-index.html (http://www.ncaa.com/sports/w-baskbl/champpage/w-baskbl-div3-index.html)

You will find info on ticketing, seating, the Shirk Center and area restaurants on this website. 

If you are driving once you turn south of Joliet, Ill. watch your speed limit.  Illinois finest particularly like the area where you turn south on I-55 from I-80; and, 20 miles north of Bloomington on I-55 all  the way to the exits.

IWU Spring Break starts Friday, March 12th.  Parking should not be a problem on campus.  There is a large parking lot next to the Shirk; and, another lot across the seat by Hansen Student Center and IWU Physical Facilities Plant.  A .pdf file of the parking lots can be found on the NCAA.com link (above).

If you have questions, post them here.  I'll check back; and, if I don't know the answer will try to find the info for you.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hwbb on March 08, 2010, 09:39:42 PM
Quote from: iwumichigander on March 08, 2010, 06:24:55 PM
Some info for Hope fans driving to Bloomington -

If you are driving once you turn south of Joliet, Ill. watch your speed limit.  Illinois finest particularly like the area where you turn south on I-55 from I-80; and, 20 miles north of Bloomington on I-55 all  the way to the exits.

Thanks for the traffic tips. And amidst all the restaurants we could go to in Michigan (or anywhere else), what's the best local eating place??
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on March 09, 2010, 01:26:10 PM
In the Department of "For What It's Worth," I have it on good authority that the Hope fan bus will be staying in Peoria (ca. 35 miles away) because they were not able to secure lodging in Bloomington.   :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on March 09, 2010, 01:36:39 PM
I'm on the fan bus but I haven't heard where we are staying.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on March 09, 2010, 02:21:46 PM
Quote from: wwjjdd on March 09, 2010, 01:26:10 PM
In the Department of "For What It's Worth," I have it on good authority that the Hope fan bus will be staying in Peoria (ca. 35 miles away) because they were not able to secure lodging in Bloomington.   :)

The 1A & 2A boys bball state shampionships are in Peoria this weekend.  Maybe able to take in extra game or 2 Sat. morning if Hope wins. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: iwumichigander on March 09, 2010, 04:54:29 PM
Quote from: almcguirejr on March 09, 2010, 02:21:46 PM
Quote from: wwjjdd on March 09, 2010, 01:26:10 PM
In the Department of "For What It's Worth," I have it on good authority that the Hope fan bus will be staying in Peoria (ca. 35 miles away) because they were not able to secure lodging in Bloomington.   :)

The 1A & 2A boys bball state shampionships are in Peoria this weekend.  Maybe able to take in extra game or 2 Sat. morning if Hope wins. 
State Championship might explain the lodging challenge in Bloomington this weekend; and, team hotels have likely been blocked out in Bloomington-Normal for some time.  I checked hotels.com last night and still lodging available in Bloomington.  But Marriott, Holiday Inn and Double Tree all whom have multiple properties seem to be sold out.  If you are contemplating IHSA state championship I'd call ahead and see if tickets still available.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hoosier Titan on March 09, 2010, 05:00:32 PM
With regards to food in Bloomington-Normal:

Depends on what you like.  Most chain restaurants are there.  Many people's favorite nicer restaurant in town is Biaggi's, a northern Italian restaurant on Veterans' Parkway (reservations strongly recommended).  For simpler red sauce Italian there are two Avanti's, one near the IWU campus on North Main Street and one out by the airport.  Within walking distance of campus there's Tobin's Pizza (and lots of other places). 

I don't just eat Italian food, honest!  Please, others, chime in.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 09, 2010, 05:02:00 PM
Carrie Snikkers being considered for at least one AA team

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/sports/x1224402494/Hopes-Carrie-Snikkers-up-for-All-American-consideration
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hoosier Titan on March 09, 2010, 05:06:14 PM
Quote from: iwumichigander on March 09, 2010, 04:54:29 PM
Quote from: almcguirejr on March 09, 2010, 02:21:46 PM
Quote from: wwjjdd on March 09, 2010, 01:26:10 PM
In the Department of "For What It's Worth," I have it on good authority that the Hope fan bus will be staying in Peoria (ca. 35 miles away) because they were not able to secure lodging in Bloomington.   :)

The 1A & 2A boys bball state shampionships are in Peoria this weekend.  Maybe able to take in extra game or 2 Sat. morning if Hope wins. 
State Championship might explain the lodging challenge in Bloomington this weekend; and, team hotels have likely been blocked out in Bloomington-Normal for some time.  I checked hotels.com last night and still lodging available in Bloomington.  But Marriott, Holiday Inn and Double Tree all whom have multiple properties seem to be sold out.  If you are contemplating IHSA state championship I'd call ahead and see if tickets still available.

I just checked Travelocity.com and found about 30 hotels with availability in Bloomington-Normal.  That's not including the ones within a few minutes' drive in smaller towns such as Le Roy and El Paso.  Some places may be full, but rooms are available.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: iwumichigander on March 09, 2010, 05:11:00 PM
Quote from: Hwbb on March 08, 2010, 09:39:42 PM
Quote from: iwumichigander on March 08, 2010, 06:24:55 PM
Some info for Hope fans driving to Bloomington -

If you are driving once you turn south of Joliet, Ill. watch your speed limit.  Illinois finest particularly like the area where you turn south on I-55 from I-80; and, 20 miles north of Bloomington on I-55 all  the way to the exits.

Thanks for the traffic tips. And amidst all the restaurants we could go to in Michigan (or anywhere else), what's the best local eating place??
This link to a .pdf file on the NCAA.com site http://www.ncaa.com/graphics/champpage/Bloomington-Normal_Restaurants.pdf (http://www.ncaa.com/graphics/champpage/Bloomington-Normal_Restaurants.pdf) has a fairly extensive list.  Along Veterans Parkway (Bus I-55S exit 167) has lots of chain restaurants.

Some local non-chain favorites:
The Caboose 608 W. Seminary, Bloomington | 829.7895  (close to campus a favorite for IWU students and alumni; good food; reasonable prices; not fancy)

Schooner's 810 E. Grove, Bloomington | 829.6841 (local bar and grill; not expensive; popular post game location for IWU fans)

Avanti's Italian Restaurant
407 S. Main, Normal | 452.4436
Avanti's Italian Restaurant
3302 E. Empire, Bloomington | 662.4436
(More of a family type restaurant; reasonable; good food; Main St Normal location by Illinois State campus)

Tobin's Pizza 1513 N. Main, Bloomington | 828.0410  (within walking distance of Shirk Center; a long time Bloomington family restaurant; nothing fancy pizza, chicken, Italian - also does take out)

Alexander's Steakhouse 1503 E. College, Normal | 454.7300 (Good food but not inexpensive; reservations might be a good idea)

Outback Steakhouse 1409 N. Veterans, Bloomington | 663.0455 (its Outback)

Hoosier Titan also posted some good suggestions.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: iwumichigander on March 09, 2010, 05:17:56 PM
Quote from: Hoosier Titan on March 09, 2010, 05:06:14 PM
Quote from: iwumichigander on March 09, 2010, 04:54:29 PM
Quote from: almcguirejr on March 09, 2010, 02:21:46 PM
Quote from: wwjjdd on March 09, 2010, 01:26:10 PM
In the Department of "For What It's Worth," I have it on good authority that the Hope fan bus will be staying in Peoria (ca. 35 miles away) because they were not able to secure lodging in Bloomington.   :)
I
The 1A & 2A boys bball state shampionships are in Peoria this weekend.  Maybe able to take in extra game or 2 Sat. morning if Hope wins. 
State Championship might explain the lodging challenge in Bloomington this weekend; and, team hotels have likely been blocked out in Bloomington-Normal for some time.  I checked hotels.com last night and still lodging available in Bloomington.  But Marriott, Holiday Inn and Double Tree all whom have multiple properties seem to be sold out.  If you are contemplating IHSA state championship I'd call ahead and see if tickets still available.

I just checked Travelocity.com and found about 30 hotels with availability in Bloomington-Normal.  That's not including the ones within a few minutes' drive in smaller towns such as Le Roy and El Paso.  Some places may be full, but rooms are available.
Thanks HT!  I'm not seeing any events on the local calendars that would clog up the hotels (other than those blocked for NCAA tournament); it could be high schools have blocked rooms due to the State Championship in Peoria.  Bottom line - even though web site may show hotels full - it might be worth a telephone call directly to the property.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on March 09, 2010, 05:26:10 PM
I can't imagine Blo-No hotels would be filled up because of the IHSA tourney in Peoria. Peoria is 45 minutes away and has more than enough lodging.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on March 09, 2010, 06:55:05 PM
Carrie Snikkers was named one of 40 finals for the WBCA All-America team.

http://www.wbca.org/releases/2010DIIISFCAATFinalistsPR.html
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on March 10, 2010, 11:31:48 AM
Alan Babbitt opinion piece in the Sentinel:

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/sports/sports_hope/x2102347241/Make-your-mind-NCAA-when-youre-picking-sectional-site

I like the "hoopsfan" reply in the comments section.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 10, 2010, 11:50:35 AM
quote from Babbitt

The Flying Dutch fielded the 2008 and 2009 D-III Women's Basketball Championships. They fell one game short of reaching the Elite Eight, losing to eventual national champions Howard Payne (Texas) and George Fox (Ore.), respectively, away from DeVos Fieldhouse.

I'm sure he meant one game short of reaching the Final Four.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Usuallywrong24 on March 10, 2010, 01:56:56 PM
There is also Special Olympics and another big event happening at the Shirk on Saturday.  Not sure of the name of it.  It happens this weekend almost every year.  One would think IWU could do it another weekend earlier or later, but it seems to fall on this weekend most of the time.  This could explain some of the hotel issues. 

With all of these events going on in the greater Bloomington area, I could argue that it makes IWU unfit to host.  But thats just for arguments sake  ;). 

Quote from: iwumichigander on March 09, 2010, 04:54:29 PM
Quote from: almcguirejr on March 09, 2010, 02:21:46 PM
Quote from: wwjjdd on March 09, 2010, 01:26:10 PM
In the Department of "For What It's Worth," I have it on good authority that the Hope fan bus will be staying in Peoria (ca. 35 miles away) because they were not able to secure lodging in Bloomington.   :)

The 1A & 2A boys bball state shampionships are in Peoria this weekend.  Maybe able to take in extra game or 2 Sat. morning if Hope wins. 
State Championship might explain the lodging challenge in Bloomington this weekend; and, team hotels have likely been blocked out in Bloomington-Normal for some time.  I checked hotels.com last night and still lodging available in Bloomington.  But Marriott, Holiday Inn and Double Tree all whom have multiple properties seem to be sold out.  If you are contemplating IHSA state championship I'd call ahead and see if tickets still available.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on March 10, 2010, 06:53:35 PM
What is the other big event at Shirk? Sort of thing that could go long and impact the ability of the Saturday night game to start on time?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Titan Q on March 10, 2010, 07:03:39 PM
I know some here are disappointed Hope is not the host, but how bout we avoid some of the misinformation here. 

* There are hotel rooms available in Bloomington-Normal this weekend.

* There are no "big events" on campus that will affect the Sectional games in any way.


Time to go play basketball, folks.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on March 10, 2010, 10:04:13 PM
This amazing story is floating around on the CCIW board. As frustrated as Hope fans may be Carthage may have reason to be a great deal more upset.

To wit, from Titan Q

"I have it on pretty solid authority that the NCAA miscalculated the mileage from Mount Union to Wash U, and thus, awarded the Sectional to Wash U instead of Carthage by mistake.  According to my source, the NCAA contacted Carthage Monday morning and acknowledged the mistake, but explained it was too late to correct.

Amazing."
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on March 10, 2010, 10:07:37 PM
Quote from: almcguirejr on March 10, 2010, 11:31:48 AM
Alan Babbitt opinion piece in the Sentinel:

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/sports/sports_hope/x2102347241/Make-your-mind-NCAA-when-youre-picking-sectional-site

I like the "hoopsfan" reply in the comments section.

Agree that the article lacks a bit of understanding of the D3 selection process.

However, this quote is fascinating if the facts are true:

A tournament committee official didn't think it was fair to let a Final Four host play all of its NCAA postseason games on its home court and told Hope that, a source close to the program told The Sentinel recently.

Of course the infamous "source close to the program" is broad but still interesting.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Usuallywrong24 on March 10, 2010, 10:20:13 PM
Not sure how many people have been to a Special Olympic event, but I have officiated at them before.  These are not usually just a couple teams showing up to play, there is well over 200 athletes who play in these tournaments.  Then take into effect the caregivers and the people who help put these events on, it could get quite crowded. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on March 11, 2010, 11:15:37 AM
I'm looking at the Special Olympics State Basketball schedule for Friday and they don't play at the Shirk Center. This is a basketball tournament that encompasses 1,550 athletes at playing sites at Normal & Bloomington. But play is scheduled for the Shirk Center & Horton Field House in Normal on Saturday from 8am-3:30pm. This info was taken off the actual team play schedule that was revised 3/4/10.

This won't affect our teams focus on basketball.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 11, 2010, 12:44:58 PM
Quote from: jspiii on March 11, 2010, 11:15:37 AM
I'm looking at the Special Olympics State Basketball schedule for Friday and they don't play at the Shirk Center. This is a basketball tournament that encompasses 1,550 athletes at playing sites at Normal & Bloomington. But play is scheduled for the Shirk Center & Horton Field House in Normal on Saturday from 8am-3:30pm. This info was taken off the actual team play schedule that was revised 3/4/10.

This won't affect our teams focus on basketball.

I wonder how this would effect things like a morning shoot-around Saturday.  Maybe TitanQ could offer some insight into that.

As for "source close to the program", you can get closer to the Hope women's basketball program than the "source" I'm aware of, but any closer and you're on the bench at game time.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Moser on March 11, 2010, 01:07:13 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on March 11, 2010, 12:44:58 PM
Quote from: jspiii on March 11, 2010, 11:15:37 AM
I'm looking at the Special Olympics State Basketball schedule for Friday and they don't play at the Shirk Center. This is a basketball tournament that encompasses 1,550 athletes at playing sites at Normal & Bloomington. But play is scheduled for the Shirk Center & Horton Field House in Normal on Saturday from 8am-3:30pm. This info was taken off the actual team play schedule that was revised 3/4/10.

This won't affect our teams focus on basketball.
I wonder how this would effect things like a morning shoot-around Saturday.  Maybe TitanQ could offer some insight into that.

The Shirk Center has at least 4 multi-purpose courts and a practice gym adjacent to the main arena. I assume the Special Olyimpics event would be in those areas, so it will not affect any shootarounds.

http://www.iwusports.com/sports/2009/1/31/GEN_0131091842.aspx?tab=facilities
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 11, 2010, 01:14:51 PM
Thanks, Moser.  My unfamiliarity with the IWU facility shows through, but if there are 4 other courts available, I'm sure they've worked it out so the teams playing the Elite Eight game can practice on the floor they'll be playing on.  Good to know.  Hopefully, even parking won't be an issue if the Special Olympics events are wrapped up on time.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Titan Q on March 11, 2010, 01:58:33 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on March 11, 2010, 01:14:51 PM
Thanks, Moser.  My unfamiliarity with the IWU facility shows through, but if there are 4 other courts available, I'm sure they've worked it out so the teams playing the Elite Eight game can practice on the floor they'll be playing on.  Good to know.  Hopefully, even parking won't be an issue if the Special Olympics events are wrapped up on time.

Plenty of parking, plenty of facility space...it's all good.

Time to go play ball.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on March 11, 2010, 02:32:34 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on March 11, 2010, 01:58:33 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on March 11, 2010, 01:14:51 PM
Thanks, Moser.  My unfamiliarity with the IWU facility shows through, but if there are 4 other courts available, I'm sure they've worked it out so the teams playing the Elite Eight game can practice on the floor they'll be playing on.  Good to know.  Hopefully, even parking won't be an issue if the Special Olympics events are wrapped up on time.

Plenty of parking, plenty of facility space...it's all good.

Time to go play ball.

Wait! There is going to be a basketball game after all this? There is just too much time in between games for us to gripe and get bored. Looking forward to tomorrow!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on March 11, 2010, 02:48:26 PM
There are 5 courts at Shirk Center, court 1 is clear from 9:30am-2pm, I would imagine the teams willl practice on this court.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on March 11, 2010, 08:23:33 PM
We'll be working with the NCAA on its video broadcast of Friday and Saturday's games at Illinois Wesleyan.  You can find those broadcasts here:

http://all-access.cbssports.com/player.html?code=ncaa

If you see a pale, skinny, balding guy, feel free to come up and say hello. If it's me, I'll say hello back. :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 12, 2010, 09:31:09 AM
Packing up and heading out.  Bloomington here we come - the sea of orange & blue.

Go HOPE!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on March 12, 2010, 06:19:05 PM
Alright - a good start.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: fannie on March 12, 2010, 06:42:44 PM
24-24 at the half.  Hope too streaky........had a 10 point lead, let Marymount back into it at the half.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on March 12, 2010, 06:58:01 PM
Looks like a decent Hope crowd at the game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 12, 2010, 07:39:36 PM
Go Hope!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on March 12, 2010, 07:41:13 PM
Hope wins 53-46!

Marymount went 12 minutes in the second half without scoring from the field and still had a chance to win in the last minute. Amazing.

Go Hope!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 12, 2010, 07:47:41 PM
I saw the entire second half and for a while I thought it was a game both teams deserved to lose. During the Hope timeout with 35 seconds left, Morehouse made a very wise decision on the inbounds play. Rather than have Snikkers inbound the ball like she usually does, he had Greene inbound it and she was easily able to get it to Carrie who makes such a large and inviting target that Marymount really had little chance of stealing the ball.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: fannie on March 12, 2010, 07:51:25 PM
I agree with oldknight - wow...nothing like "trying to give one away"!!!!  BUT - prevail they did!!  GO HOPE!  Elite Eight here we come!  Any idea if those of us still in Holland tonight will be able to buy game tickets at DeVos for tomorrow nights game????
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 12, 2010, 07:58:29 PM
Quote from: fannie on March 12, 2010, 07:51:25 PM
I agree with oldknight - wow...nothing like "trying to give one away"!!!!  BUT - prevail they did!!  GO HOPE!  Elite Eight here we come!  Any idea if those of us still in Holland tonight will be able to buy game tickets at DeVos for tomorrow nights game????

If IWU loses, no problem.  If IWU wins, good luck! :D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 12, 2010, 08:04:52 PM
Snikkers 21pts, 14 rbs.........I'm pretty sure she had 16 pts and 9 rebs in the 2nd half, or something close to that.

Survive and advance!


4th elite 8 in 5 tournaments for Hope

6th consecutive year of an elite 8 team from the MIAA, 7th time in the last 8 tournaments.  That's pretty impressive.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: iwumichigander on March 12, 2010, 08:23:51 PM
Quote from: fannie on March 12, 2010, 07:51:25 PM
I agree with oldknight - wow...nothing like "trying to give one away"!!!!  BUT - prevail they did!!  GO HOPE!  Elite Eight here we come!  Any idea if those of us still in Holland tonight will be able to buy game tickets at DeVos for tomorrow nights game????
Tickets are likely being sold on site by Hope.  If you have a way to contact somebody at the game, it might not be a bad idea.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 12, 2010, 08:34:44 PM
I didn't realize IWU and Stevens Point had already met once this year.......an 84-80 IWU victory on November 28 at IWU.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on March 12, 2010, 10:09:28 PM
IWU loses 77-76 after UWSP scores with 2.2 seconds left!

Lots of tickets for tomorrow.

Maybe no one will ever play in the Final Four at home. (I realize it's happened in the past. Just a comment in light of what's happened to Hope and now IWU).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on March 12, 2010, 10:13:22 PM
Quote from: ChicagoHopeNut on March 12, 2010, 10:09:28 PM
IWU loses 77-76 after UWSP scores with 2.2 seconds left!


John Beilein should watch the tape of how UWSP defended the court the last 2.2 seconds.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: cmlundy on March 12, 2010, 10:14:50 PM
What a heart breaker for IWU.  How does Hope match up against Stevens Point?

Should be a hope dominated crowd.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 12, 2010, 10:19:38 PM
Quote from: cmlundy on March 12, 2010, 10:14:50 PM
What a heart breaker for IWU.  How does Hope match up against Stevens Point?

Should be a hope dominated crowd.

Probably true, since the Point men play at home tomorrow - against IWU!

Should cut into both their attendance and the local fans who would otherwise show up (and I have no idea who they would have rooted for).

I WILL guarantee that tickets will not be a problem! :(
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 12, 2010, 10:22:46 PM
WOW!!!!!  What a game!!!  Congrats to the IWU Titans on a great season...I'm sorry it ended before we got to see that Solari/Snikkers matchup.   :-[  Go Hope tomorrow!!!  I'm on my way in the morning (had to work today  :-\ ).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: SKOT on March 12, 2010, 10:25:27 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 12, 2010, 10:19:38 PM
I WILL guarantee that tickets will not be a problem! :(

I too shall make and equally bold prediction:

The earth will still exist in exactly 2 seconds!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: SKOT on March 12, 2010, 10:27:17 PM
WOO HOO!   I was correct!  For my next trick, I will juggle 5 stray cats I found behind my friend's barn.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Just Bill on March 12, 2010, 10:31:52 PM
Quote from: ChicagoHopeNut on March 12, 2010, 10:09:28 PM
Maybe no one will ever play in the Final Four at home. (I realize it's happened in the past. Just a comment in light of what's happened to Hope and now IWU).

Well, it's never happened in the era of predetermined sites.  Before that, obviously, it happened EVERY year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 12, 2010, 11:06:55 PM
Bummer! :(  We led nearly the whole game, but not when it counted.

I sure thought it would happen this year.

Since we won't be there, Hope, take it all!

(And now, we will presumably never see that Solari/Snikkers match up.  Christina DOES have a medical redshirt year coming if she wants, but no one really expects her to take it.  Christina does have a little sister, Karen, but she is a little sister - she's a guard.)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on March 13, 2010, 06:58:06 AM
Quote from: almcguirejr on March 12, 2010, 10:13:22 PM
Quote from: ChicagoHopeNut on March 12, 2010, 10:09:28 PM
IWU loses 77-76 after UWSP scores with 2.2 seconds left!


John Beilein should watch the tape of how UWSP defended the court the last 2.2 seconds.

Wasn't that unbelievable? I saw that and - I don't say this lightly - said to myself that if someone puts together that bad of a defensive plan at crunch time, he should lose his job. Michigan's players ought to be furious at the coaching staff.

And this isn't even taking into account the refusal to guard the inbounder, a strategy for which arguments have been made on this board, even though I think you always guard the inbounder in those situations.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on March 13, 2010, 08:03:44 AM
Holland Sentinel articles:

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/sports/sports_hope/x427967308/Flying-Dutch-are-Elite-Eight-bound-again

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/sports/sports_hope/x99748232/Flying-Dutch-notebook-Praise-for-Finney-another-30-wins-and-a-block-party

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/sports/sports_hope/x1664754622/3-keys-for-Flying-Dutch-to-keep-national-title-hopes-alive
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dumexrules on March 13, 2010, 10:08:42 AM
Quote from: HopeConvert on March 13, 2010, 06:58:06 AM
Quote from: almcguirejr on March 12, 2010, 10:13:22 PM
Quote from: ChicagoHopeNut on March 12, 2010, 10:09:28 PM
IWU loses 77-76 after UWSP scores with 2.2 seconds left!


John Beilein should watch the tape of how UWSP defended the court the last 2.2 seconds.

Wasn't that unbelievable? I saw that and - I don't say this lightly - said to myself that if someone puts together that bad of a defensive plan at crunch time, he should lose his job. Michigan's players ought to be furious at the coaching staff.

And this isn't even taking into account the refusal to guard the inbounder, a strategy for which arguments have been made on this board, even though I think you always guard the inbounder in those situations.

Until you have coached a team in crunch time of a tournament you should say everything lightly.....

turner made a shot that is made  unguarded in practice about 5% of the time and even less in a game...if you said, OSU will get off a shot that has a 5% chance of going in....I think you would take that.
Maybe you should talk to Beilein...your ideas will get you hired!

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 13, 2010, 10:47:14 AM
Quote from: fannie on March 12, 2010, 07:51:25 PM
I agree with oldknight - wow...nothing like "trying to give one away"!!!!  BUT - prevail they did!!  GO HOPE!  Elite Eight here we come!  Any idea if those of us still in Holland tonight will be able to buy game tickets at DeVos for tomorrow nights game????

I guess the live experience was somewhat different.  While sometimes frustrating to watch, this was a game of two very good defenses.  Credit goes to both team for pressuring the ball, and really getting in the passing lanes.  Looking at the box score, I was surprised to see only 14 turnovers for Hope and 16 for Marymount, but I think the effect of the defenses was that it was a real struggle for either team to get a clean open look.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 13, 2010, 10:54:37 AM
Quote from: HopeConvert on March 13, 2010, 06:58:06 AM
Quote from: almcguirejr on March 12, 2010, 10:13:22 PM
Quote from: ChicagoHopeNut on March 12, 2010, 10:09:28 PM
IWU loses 77-76 after UWSP scores with 2.2 seconds left!


John Beilein should watch the tape of how UWSP defended the court the last 2.2 seconds.

Wasn't that unbelievable? I saw that and - I don't say this lightly - said to myself that if someone puts together that bad of a defensive plan at crunch time, he should lose his job. Michigan's players ought to be furious at the coaching staff.

And this isn't even taking into account the refusal to guard the inbounder, a strategy for which arguments have been made on this board, even though I think you always guard the inbounder in those situations.

Izzo didn't defend the inbounder last night either, but picked up the defense further in the back court..........Minne also had 6 more seconds and a more accurate clock starter.

Izzo is God anyway, I'd have to say 10 hail Sparties for questioning Tom.......if I cared.


Ya think Chris Allen had a lot of good conversations with his teammates after that one?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 13, 2010, 10:58:33 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 13, 2010, 10:47:14 AM
Quote from: fannie on March 12, 2010, 07:51:25 PM
I agree with oldknight - wow...nothing like "trying to give one away"!!!!  BUT - prevail they did!!  GO HOPE!  Elite Eight here we come!  Any idea if those of us still in Holland tonight will be able to buy game tickets at DeVos for tomorrow nights game????

I guess the live experience was somewhat different.  While sometimes frustrating to watch, this was a game of two very good defenses.  Credit goes to both team for pressuring the ball, and really getting in the passing lanes.  Looking at the box score, I was surprised to see only 14 turnovers for Hope and 16 for Marymount, but I think the effect of the defenses was that it was a real struggle for either team to get a clean open look.

Seems like someone mentioned earlier in the week that Marymount had only given up 60 points once.  They obviously know what they're doing on that end of the court.

Hope has been a very good defensive team for several years now, but each of their last two exits from the tournament came vs at least defensive equals.  Last night was precisely the kind of game Hope lost vs Howard Payne and George Fox.  Its good to see them win this kind of matchup in the tournament.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on March 13, 2010, 11:31:51 AM
Quote from: dumexrules on March 13, 2010, 10:08:42 AM
Quote from: HopeConvert on March 13, 2010, 06:58:06 AM
Quote from: almcguirejr on March 12, 2010, 10:13:22 PM
Quote from: ChicagoHopeNut on March 12, 2010, 10:09:28 PM
IWU loses 77-76 after UWSP scores with 2.2 seconds left!


John Beilein should watch the tape of how UWSP defended the court the last 2.2 seconds.

Wasn't that unbelievable? I saw that and - I don't say this lightly - said to myself that if someone puts together that bad of a defensive plan at crunch time, he should lose his job. Michigan's players ought to be furious at the coaching staff.

And this isn't even taking into account the refusal to guard the inbounder, a strategy for which arguments have been made on this board, even though I think you always guard the inbounder in those situations.

Until you have coached a team in crunch time of a tournament you should say everything lightly.....

turner made a shot that is made  unguarded in practice about 5% of the time and even less in a game...if you said, OSU will get off a shot that has a 5% chance of going in....I think you would take that.
Maybe you should talk to Beilein...your ideas will get you hired!



How do you know I haven't?

Running a defender at the Player of the Year in order to impede his progress up the court when there is only 2 seconds left in the game is hardly a radical idea. The play OSU got was the highest percentage play they could get. Awful defense, awful coaching.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 13, 2010, 11:48:08 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 13, 2010, 10:47:14 AM
Quote from: fannie on March 12, 2010, 07:51:25 PM
I agree with oldknight - wow...nothing like "trying to give one away"!!!!  BUT - prevail they did!!  GO HOPE!  Elite Eight here we come!  Any idea if those of us still in Holland tonight will be able to buy game tickets at DeVos for tomorrow nights game????

I guess the live experience was somewhat different.  While sometimes frustrating to watch, this was a game of two very good defenses.  Credit goes to both team for pressuring the ball, and really getting in the passing lanes.  Looking at the box score, I was surprised to see only 14 turnovers for Hope and 16 for Marymount, but I think the effect of the defenses was that it was a real struggle for either team to get a clean open look.

FDF is absolutely correct. Video may be better than merely listening to a radio broadcast but there really is no substitue for actually being there. Courtside seats provide you with a far greater ability to assess the intensity level of the players than does video--especially when viewing from a computer screen. That's why I qualified my remark with "for a time" when mentioning that it seemed to be a game both teams deserved to lose. Marymount's defense allowed less than 47 points per game this year so the fact that Hope scored 53 shouldn't be surprising to us.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: BruinFan on March 13, 2010, 11:57:09 AM
Very similar results for Hope and George Fox last night.

Hope wins 53-46
George Fox wins 55-48

Marymount and Carthage were held to the lowest totals in the 8 games played on Friday.

We shall see if this continues ...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 13, 2010, 11:59:33 AM
FWIW - here's a stats comparison between Hope and UWSP.  Hope would seem to have a definite defensive advantage.   After watching both teams play yesterday, I suspect a much different type of game than Hope played last night - more uptempo and higher scoring - I see that as a Hope advantage.  Hope would also seem to be a deeper team -  no Hope player with more than 27 minutes last night, while the top 3 scorers last night for UWSP played 36, 37, and 38 minutes.



Offense   % 2pt   % 3pt     % FT
Hope   45.8   31.7     70.4
UWSP   47.6   34.9     72.5
       
Defense   % 2pt   % 3pt    
Hope   34.5   23.8    
UWSP   42.9   32.8    
       
Rebounding   Team   Opp     Margin
Hope   43.6   38.4     5.2
UWSP   35.5   34     1.5
       
Scoring   Team   Opp     Margin
Hope   74   51.2     22.8
UWSP   70.1   61.6     8.5
       
3 point shooting   Attempts   Made     Made/game
Hope   577   183     5.9
UWSP   355   124     4.1
       
Blocks   Total   per game    
Hope   192   6.2    
UWSP   109   3.9    
       
Steals   Total   per game    
Hope   493   15.9    
UWSP   315   10.5    
       
Turnovers   Total   per game    
Hope   576   18.6    
UWSP   521   17.4    
       
Assists   Total   per game    
Hope   467   15.1    
UWSP   432   14.4    
       
Assist/Turnover        
Hope   0.81      
UWSP   0.83      
       
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 13, 2010, 12:01:40 PM
Quote from: BruinFan on March 13, 2010, 11:57:09 AM
Very similar results for Hope and George Fox last night.

Hope wins 53-46
George Fox wins 55-48

Marymount and Carthage were held to the lowest totals in the 8 games played on Friday.

We shall see if this continues ...

Since Hope and George Fox have met in the trounament the last two years, I'm all for it happening again (since it would be the national championship game).  Just keep in mind that Hope won in 2008, George Fox in 2009, so it's our turn in 2010  ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on March 13, 2010, 02:55:38 PM
Quote from: dumexrules on March 13, 2010, 10:08:42 AM
Quote from: HopeConvert on March 13, 2010, 06:58:06 AM
Quote from: almcguirejr on March 12, 2010, 10:13:22 PM
Quote from: ChicagoHopeNut on March 12, 2010, 10:09:28 PM
IWU loses 77-76 after UWSP scores with 2.2 seconds left!


John Beilein should watch the tape of how UWSP defended the court the last 2.2 seconds.

Wasn't that unbelievable? I saw that and - I don't say this lightly - said to myself that if someone puts together that bad of a defensive plan at crunch time, he should lose his job. Michigan's players ought to be furious at the coaching staff.

And this isn't even taking into account the refusal to guard the inbounder, a strategy for which arguments have been made on this board, even though I think you always guard the inbounder in those situations.

Until you have coached a team in crunch time of a tournament you should say everything lightly.....

turner made a shot that is made  unguarded in practice about 5% of the time and even less in a game...if you said, OSU will get off a shot that has a 5% chance of going in....I think you would take that.
Maybe you should talk to Beilein...your ideas will get you hired!



Letting their best player go up the floor unimpeded was stupid.  I don't mind not guarding the inbounder.  This allows you to put 5 guys on 4.  Michigan put 5 guys on the 3 that didn't have the ball.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on March 13, 2010, 03:19:51 PM
Quote from: almcguirejr on March 13, 2010, 02:55:38 PM
Quote from: dumexrules on March 13, 2010, 10:08:42 AM
Quote from: HopeConvert on March 13, 2010, 06:58:06 AM
Quote from: almcguirejr on March 12, 2010, 10:13:22 PM
Quote from: ChicagoHopeNut on March 12, 2010, 10:09:28 PM
IWU loses 77-76 after UWSP scores with 2.2 seconds left!


John Beilein should watch the tape of how UWSP defended the court the last 2.2 seconds.

Wasn't that unbelievable? I saw that and - I don't say this lightly - said to myself that if someone puts together that bad of a defensive plan at crunch time, he should lose his job. Michigan's players ought to be furious at the coaching staff.

And this isn't even taking into account the refusal to guard the inbounder, a strategy for which arguments have been made on this board, even though I think you always guard the inbounder in those situations.

Until you have coached a team in crunch time of a tournament you should say everything lightly.....

turner made a shot that is made  unguarded in practice about 5% of the time and even less in a game...if you said, OSU will get off a shot that has a 5% chance of going in....I think you would take that.
Maybe you should talk to Beilein...your ideas will get you hired!



Letting their best player go up the floor unimpeded was stupid.  I don't mind not guarding the inbounder.  This allows you to put 5 guys on 4.  Michigan put 5 guys on the 3 that didn't have the ball.

Actually 5 on 2, as OSU had three guys in the backcourt, one of them setting a screen for Turner since the OSU coaching staff obviously assumed UM would put a defender on Turner to make him work the ball up the court. Evidently Jim Beilein was the only person in the country who didn't know Turner was going to get the ball. As soon as he saw OSU's set-up he should have called a time-out (he still had 2 left) and had a couple of defenders ready to defend in the backcourt.

Guarding the inbounder is debatable. I would always put a man on him, but I understand the argument for not doing so. Nothing else Michigan did on that play made sense.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 13, 2010, 03:33:32 PM
Quote from: HopeConvert on March 13, 2010, 03:19:51 PM
Quote from: almcguirejr on March 13, 2010, 02:55:38 PM
Quote from: dumexrules on March 13, 2010, 10:08:42 AM
Quote from: HopeConvert on March 13, 2010, 06:58:06 AM
Quote from: almcguirejr on March 12, 2010, 10:13:22 PM
Quote from: ChicagoHopeNut on March 12, 2010, 10:09:28 PM
IWU loses 77-76 after UWSP scores with 2.2 seconds left!


John Beilein should watch the tape of how UWSP defended the court the last 2.2 seconds.

Wasn't that unbelievable? I saw that and - I don't say this lightly - said to myself that if someone puts together that bad of a defensive plan at crunch time, he should lose his job. Michigan's players ought to be furious at the coaching staff.

And this isn't even taking into account the refusal to guard the inbounder, a strategy for which arguments have been made on this board, even though I think you always guard the inbounder in those situations.

Until you have coached a team in crunch time of a tournament you should say everything lightly.....

turner made a shot that is made  unguarded in practice about 5% of the time and even less in a game...if you said, OSU will get off a shot that has a 5% chance of going in....I think you would take that.
Maybe you should talk to Beilein...your ideas will get you hired!



Letting their best player go up the floor unimpeded was stupid.  I don't mind not guarding the inbounder.  This allows you to put 5 guys on 4.  Michigan put 5 guys on the 3 that didn't have the ball.

Actually 5 on 2, as OSU had three guys in the backcourt, one of them setting a screen for Turner since the OSU coaching staff obviously assumed UM would put a defender on Turner to make him work the ball up the court. Evidently Jim Beilein was the only person in the country who didn't know Turner was going to get the ball. As soon as he saw OSU's set-up he should have called a time-out (he still had 2 left) and had a couple of defenders ready to defend in the backcourt.

Guarding the inbounder is debatable. I would always put a man on him, but I understand the argument for not doing so. Nothing else Michigan did on that play made sense.

I thought the pose after the shot by Stu Douglas showed great form and technique.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on March 13, 2010, 07:56:58 PM
Just in case you need the link:

http://all-access.cbssports.com/player.html?code=ncaa&media=173191
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 13, 2010, 08:02:36 PM
Half the FF is already set.  #1 Amherst had little trouble with Babson (80-65?).  #2 Kean was ousted by unranked Rochester, 68-65.

IF George Fox tops WashU, the Shirk should be a veritable home court for the winner of Hope/UWSP.  Tradition says I should root for Point so IWU can say they lost only to the national champs, but GO HOPE!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on March 13, 2010, 08:13:11 PM
I'd applaud you, but I already did earlier today. We appreciate the support.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on March 13, 2010, 08:19:55 PM
I'm thinking Hope getting an early lead is bad for Point, whose players aren't as fresh, as FDF demonstrated. I can see them wearing out.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on March 13, 2010, 08:37:16 PM
Bad finish to the half.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on March 13, 2010, 09:42:06 PM
Way to go Flying Dutch! Return trip next week.

Sure is nice to have played a couple of games in the arena where the Final Four will be played. Should be an advantage. ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 13, 2010, 09:45:19 PM
Go Hope!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 13, 2010, 09:56:33 PM
I couldn't bring up any livestats on my computer--and I never heard Gordan Mann announce any--but it looked to me like Snikkers had another huge second half and totally dominated the paint. It appeared that most of Hope's key players had a tough couple of shooting nights at Shirk but their post player put the team on her back and "Carried" the Dutch into the Final Four. When Snikkers played at Hudsonville Unity Christian she was labeled "The Franchise." Now national observers know why.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 13, 2010, 10:03:00 PM
WashU beat George Fox, so you'll probably have to compete for home court advantage in terms of fans (they also played at Shirk, though back in November).  I'd suspect that Amherst and Rochester will have fairly limited crowd support.

Beat the drums for fans!  St. Louis is closer (AND we've been playing both men and women every year AT LEAST once, often twice, so locals may favor them.  IF Hope and WashU meet in the final, you've got your work cut out to turn the Shirk into home turf! ;)

OK, livestats said Snikkers finished with 21 and 12. :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 13, 2010, 10:12:10 PM
Sometimes great teams have a margin of error for cold shooting, and so it seemed both nights this weekend, with 4 of 21 and then 2 of 16 three-point shooting, while tonight facing a player who shot 15 of 17 (so that's what it felt like to play against Carissa Verkaik's 18 of 20, earlier this season).  If you'd told me Hope would end the game with those stats, I would have presumed a loss.  Happily, the rest of their game was terrific, and, yes, OldKnight, they were "Carried" this weekend.   :)

Now if their long-range shooting (which has been up and down this season) can return, they should have a good shot at playing at 3 p.m. next Saturday.  This team, with its athleticism and evident joy, has been such a pleasure to watch this season.  How fitting that they have the opportunity to play in a Final Four.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 13, 2010, 10:24:29 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 13, 2010, 10:03:00 PM
WashU beat George Fox, so you'll probably have to compete for home court advantage in terms of fans (they also played at Shirk, though back in November).  I'd suspect that Amherst and Rochester will have fairly limited crowd support.

Beat the drums for fans!  St. Louis is closer (AND we've been playing both men and women every year AT LEAST once, often twice, so locals may favor them.  IF Hope and WashU meet in the final, you've got your work cut out to turn the Shirk into home turf! ;)

OK, livestats said Snikkers finished with 21 and 12. :)

Thanks to Ypsi.

I suspect the Hope faithful are feeling better about the hand dealt them by the NCAA. Not only do the Dutch have two games under their belt at the Final Four site, they also got the better of the draw playing unranked Rochester in the semifinal. The two teams have a common opponent--Chicago--a squad I saw lose to Hope by 19 in December. Rochester split with the Maroons beating them in OT at home while losing in the Windy City.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 13, 2010, 11:04:07 PM
Statistics can be misleading. Some posters have wondered what Snikkers could do if she played a full game. It's not so much how good your overall stats look in comparison to others--it when you score the points and grab the rebounds that help your team win. In the second half of the two biggest games of the year, playing the best D3 has to offer, Carrie's stat line include the following:

33 points, 18 rebounds, in 30 minutes of PT.

Those offensive stats don't include the dominance she showed on defense. Her counterparts in those games (LaVigna and Averkamp) had a combined two-game total of 2 points and 9 rebounds in 42 minutes.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on March 13, 2010, 11:14:18 PM
In looking at the box scores, did the Pointers just run out of gas toward the end of the game?  Especially since several of them saw extensive minutes in the Friday night game when they  looked exhaused.

Against Hope three different Pointers played 36, 37, and 39 minutes, while only 6 other players saw any action, including two players with only 4 and 8 minutes of action.  By contrast , Brian had 10 players in the game, all who saw action in double digits, while Carrie had the most minutes with 29.  A huge discrepancy in playing time and resting your starters.

(One exception to this was Petersen, who had 30 points in 37 minutes, and still was making her shots at the end.)

Finally, the starting guard for the Pointers (Windt) had only 8 minutes.  Did she get injured?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mark_reichert on March 13, 2010, 11:18:30 PM
Quote from: oldknight on March 13, 2010, 10:24:29 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 13, 2010, 10:03:00 PM
WashU beat George Fox, so you'll probably have to compete for home court advantage in terms of fans (they also played at Shirk, though back in November).  I'd suspect that Amherst and Rochester will have fairly limited crowd support.

Beat the drums for fans!  St. Louis is closer (AND we've been playing both men and women every year AT LEAST once, often twice, so locals may favor them.  IF Hope and WashU meet in the final, you've got your work cut out to turn the Shirk into home turf! ;)

I suspect the Hope faithful are feeling better about the hand dealt them by the NCAA. Not only do the Dutch have two games under their belt at the Final Four site, they also got the better of the draw playing unranked Rochester in the semifinal. The two teams have a common opponent--Chicago--a squad I saw lose to Hope by 19 in December. Rochester split with the Maroons beating them in OT at home while losing in the Windy City.

I have to point out that the unranked Rochester just beat the #2 Kean.  Obviously the rankings were wrong or Kean had a bad day.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on March 13, 2010, 11:22:46 PM
Quote from: oldknight on March 13, 2010, 11:04:07 PM
Statistics can be misleading. Some posters have wondered what Snikkers could do if she played a full game. It's not so much how good your overall stats look in comparison to others--it when you score the points and grab the rebounds that help your team win. In the second half of the two biggest games of the year, playing the best D3 has to offer, Carrie's stat line include the following:

33 points, 18 rebounds, in 30 minutes of PT.

Those offensive stats don't include the dominance she showed on defense. Her counterparts in those games (LaVigna and Averkamp) had a combined two-game total of 2 points and 9 rebounds in 42 minutes.

Carrie also got Averkamp in foul trouble, forcing her to sit much of the first half, and also getting her to foul out eventually.  In fact, the Pointers' coach was livid following the second call after Carrie was driving to the hoop.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 13, 2010, 11:41:08 PM
I didn't get to see this game but a couple things caught my eye in the play by play.

It looks like the two biggest baskets for Hope came at 2:06, a 3 by PG Liz Ellis.......noteworthy because it was just the 2nd basket in over 12 minutes not scored by Carrie Snikkers.  Carrie had made 7 of Hope 8 previous FG's.........the other was by Ellis 5 minutes earlier.  It was also the first Hope 3 since Jenny Cowen's 3 minutes into the game, the Dutch had missed 14 in a row until that shot.

.....and at 1:33 a jumper by Jenny Cowen which gave Hope the 8 point cushion and eventual victory.  Cowen hadn't scored a basket in over 36 minutes of game time and had missed 9 shots in a row.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on March 13, 2010, 11:55:03 PM
QuoteI have to point out that the unranked Rochester just beat the #2 Kean.  Obviously the rankings were wrong or Kean had a bad day.]I have to point out that the unranked Rochester just beat the #2 Kean.  Obviously the rankings were wrong or Kean had a bad day.

Could be a little of both.  But it didn't help Kean that its All American, Melissa Beyrutti, could only play 13 minutes in the entire tournament (five tonight) because of an injury.  She's the all-time leader at any level of NCAA for three-pointers made, which gives you a sense how good she is.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on March 14, 2010, 05:13:53 AM
Quote from: sac on March 13, 2010, 11:41:08 PM
I didn't get to see this game but a couple things caught my eye in the play by play.

It looks like the two biggest baskets for Hope came at 2:06, a 3 by PG Liz Ellis.......noteworthy because it was just the 2nd basket in over 12 minutes not scored by Carrie Snikkers.  Carrie had made 7 of Hope 8 previous FG's.........the other was by Ellis 5 minutes earlier.  It was also the first Hope 3 since Jenny Cowen's 3 minutes into the game, the Dutch had missed 14 in a row until that shot.

.....and at 1:33 a jumper by Jenny Cowen which gave Hope the 8 point cushion and eventual victory.  Cowen hadn't scored a basket in over 36 minutes of game time and had missed 9 shots in a row.


I was there...you are right on the money. That stretch was huge. Along the verbal cheerleading to the players during timeouts in the last 3 minutes by captain Cowen. I sat two rows up from the Hope bench.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on March 14, 2010, 05:29:12 AM
I can hardly believe the line on #4 Andrea Flease for UWSP. 4 assists and 2 steals? She was totally disruptive to Hope's perimeter offense and ran UWSP offense fairly effectively. Britta Petersen 15 for 17...I can believe that. They weren't all easy shots either.

The thing that helped save Hope was all but 3 of 16 UWSP fouls, resulted in foul shots for Hope.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 14, 2010, 08:47:21 AM
got back a couple of hours from the bus trip  way to go  hope i thought after fridays game that andera flease  was on of the best guards ive seen really fast for a short girl the tickets go on sale monday there is a hoops lunching  and go  hope friday night if you go dont eat the hot dgis a little cold and some nice shopping maws
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 14, 2010, 10:35:02 AM
Great win last night for the Dutch.  Getting ready to head home from Blommington but the best part is, we'll be back.     ;D

Couple thoughts from last night:

- Carries Snikkers - what can you say but wow!!  Two games in a row with monster second halfs.  Total domination - offense, defense, rebounding.  As I heard someone else say this weekend, if she's not the best player in DIII, I don't know who it could be.

- As others have metioned, two huge buckets by Ellis and Cowen sealed this win.  These shots were even bigger, given that they hadn't been going in for those two for most of the game, yet they shot them with complete confidence (which I credit to them and great coaching).

- I also think (and heard this comment from others as well) that you know your team is really good, when you win the sectional without playing your best ball.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 14, 2010, 11:11:34 AM
points  per game             hope  74.7             rochester  61.9

field goal                         hope  42  %           rochester  37.6  %

3  point                          hope   32.2             rochester    30.6

free throws                   hope   70.7             rochester     66

rebound margin             hope  5.1               rochester     5.2

turnover margin            hope   7.3             rochester       -1.8

assists per game          hope  15.2            rochester       15.0

steals  per game           hope  16.2           rochester       8
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on March 14, 2010, 12:42:51 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 14, 2010, 10:35:02 AM
Great win last night for the Dutch.  Getting ready to head home from Blommington but the best part is, we'll be back.     ;D


I booked a room for the Days Inn on Market St already. Getting the game tickets tomorrow. It will be nice to stay close unlike this weekend 42 miles away from Bloomington.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KNIGHTRHOPE on March 14, 2010, 02:05:58 PM
I just returned from Bloomington also and was shocked to see in the GR RAG....Carrie Snikkers did NOT make first team all area girls squad for the small colleges in our area.   I have to credit that to IGNORANCE because other than that- the reporters are being biased or coerced.  REALLY....All-American last year as a sophomore and this year shuffled to second squad even tho her team does better and she has achieved what she has with an injured foot???  What a bunch of baloney.  I have watched her play over the years and all I can say is- If you are not that important to that team or representative of this area as a #1 player -I can guarantee you, Carrie, there are PLENTY of D1 programs that would love to have you even with only 1 Year of eligibility.  YOU DESERVE BETTER.  Like someone said in an earlier post- a very classy young lady.   Knowing you - you are probably fine with it-  but rest assured there are hundreds of people-maybe more that would name you best overall player for women in this area...!

How about putting BC from CU in her spot???or CVK from Calvin or JN from Aquinas???? They would have been one and done.  IMO. 

YOU GO GIRL.  Make your family and school proud despite the ignorance portrayed by a select few.  I can see them eating crow now.  -hopefully choking on it...



OK...I feel better......GO HOPE
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on March 14, 2010, 03:51:08 PM
Quote from: KNIGHTRHOPE on March 14, 2010, 02:05:58 PM
I just returned from Bloomington also and was shocked to see in the GR RAG....Carrie Snikkers did NOT make first team all area girls squad for the small colleges in our area.   I have to credit that to IGNORANCE because other than that- the reporters are being biased or coerced.  REALLY....All-American last year as a sophomore and this year shuffled to second squad even tho her team does better and she has achieved what she has with an injured foot???  What a bunch of baloney.  I have watched her play over the years and all I can say is- If you are not that important to that team or representative of this area as a #1 player -I can guarantee you, Carrie, there are PLENTY of D1 programs that would love to have you even with only 1 Year of eligibility.  YOU DESERVE BETTER.  Like someone said in an earlier post- a very classy young lady.   Knowing you - you are probably fine with it-  but rest assured there are hundreds of people-maybe more that would name you best overall player for women in this area...!

How about putting BC from CU in her spot???or CVK from Calvin or JN from Aquinas???? They would have been one and done.  IMO.  

YOU GO GIRL.  Make your family and school proud despite the ignorance portrayed by a select few.  I can see them eating crow now.  -hopefully choking on it...



OK...I feel better......GO HOPE

Totally agree.  There are a lot of inconsistencies when selecting post-season teams.  How about this one.  Carrie is one of 40 finalists for All-American, but Carissa, who was the MIAA MVP, was nowhere to be found on this list.  Not to take anything away from Carissa, but why is she the MVP (which she deserved) while only Carrie is on the All-American list (which she definitely deserved).

http://www.wbca.org/releases/2010DIIISFCAATFinalistsPR.html

I guess that Carrie's revenge is that she is still playing!  I'll bet all the other first-teamers on the list cited would glady trade their first team recognition for the right to play next weekend!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 14, 2010, 04:02:23 PM
Quote from: AlwaysHope on March 14, 2010, 03:51:08 PM
Quote from: KNIGHTRHOPE on March 14, 2010, 02:05:58 PM
I just returned from Bloomington also and was shocked to see in the GR RAG....Carrie Snikkers did NOT make first team all area girls squad for the small colleges in our area.   I have to credit that to IGNORANCE because other than that- the reporters are being biased or coerced.  REALLY....All-American last year as a sophomore and this year shuffled to second squad even tho her team does better and she has achieved what she has with an injured foot???  What a bunch of baloney.  I have watched her play over the years and all I can say is- If you are not that important to that team or representative of this area as a #1 player -I can guarantee you, Carrie, there are PLENTY of D1 programs that would love to have you even with only 1 Year of eligibility.  YOU DESERVE BETTER.  Like someone said in an earlier post- a very classy young lady.   Knowing you - you are probably fine with it-  but rest assured there are hundreds of people-maybe more that would name you best overall player for women in this area...!

How about putting BC from CU in her spot???or CVK from Calvin or JN from Aquinas???? They would have been one and done.  IMO.  

YOU GO GIRL.  Make your family and school proud despite the ignorance portrayed by a select few.  I can see them eating crow now.  -hopefully choking on it...



OK...I feel better......GO HOPE

Totally agree.  There are a lot of inconsistencies when selecting post-season teams.  How about this one.  Carrie is one of 40 finalists for All-American, but Carissa, who was the MIAA MVP, was nowhere to be found on this list.  Not to take anything away from Carissa, but why is she the MVP (which she deserved) while only Carrie is on the All-American list (which she definitely deserved).

http://www.wbca.org/releases/2010DIIISFCAATFinalistsPR.html

I guess that Carrie's revenge is that she is still playing!  I'll bet all the other first-teamers on the list cited would glady trade their first team recognition for the right to play next weekend!
Perhaps we should keep in mind that Carissa's well-deserved league MVP award was for the league season, a good part of which Carrie missed . . . and that whatever recognition Carrie will receive (also well-deserved) is for her entire season, from November to mid March.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 14, 2010, 04:43:12 PM
hope plays at   8.00   friday michigan time
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on March 14, 2010, 04:52:15 PM
Quote from: pointlem on March 14, 2010, 04:02:23 PM
Quote from: AlwaysHope on March 14, 2010, 03:51:08 PM
Quote from: KNIGHTRHOPE on March 14, 2010, 02:05:58 PM
I just returned from Bloomington also and was shocked to see in the GR RAG....Carrie Snikkers did NOT make first team all area girls squad for the small colleges in our area.   I have to credit that to IGNORANCE because other than that- the reporters are being biased or coerced.  REALLY....All-American last year as a sophomore and this year shuffled to second squad even tho her team does better and she has achieved what she has with an injured foot???  What a bunch of baloney.  I have watched her play over the years and all I can say is- If you are not that important to that team or representative of this area as a #1 player -I can guarantee you, Carrie, there are PLENTY of D1 programs that would love to have you even with only 1 Year of eligibility.  YOU DESERVE BETTER.  Like someone said in an earlier post- a very classy young lady.   Knowing you - you are probably fine with it-  but rest assured there are hundreds of people-maybe more that would name you best overall player for women in this area...!

How about putting BC from CU in her spot???or CVK from Calvin or JN from Aquinas???? They would have been one and done.  IMO.  

YOU GO GIRL.  Make your family and school proud despite the ignorance portrayed by a select few.  I can see them eating crow now.  -hopefully choking on it...



OK...I feel better......GO HOPE

Totally agree.  There are a lot of inconsistencies when selecting post-season teams.  How about this one.  Carrie is one of 40 finalists for All-American, but Carissa, who was the MIAA MVP, was nowhere to be found on this list.  Not to take anything away from Carissa, but why is she the MVP (which she deserved) while only Carrie is on the All-American list (which she definitely deserved).

http://www.wbca.org/releases/2010DIIISFCAATFinalistsPR.html

I guess that Carrie's revenge is that she is still playing!  I'll bet all the other first-teamers on the list cited would glady trade their first team recognition for the right to play next weekend!
Perhaps we should keep in mind that Carissa's well-deserved league MVP award was for the league season, a good part of which Carrie missed . . . and that whatever recognition Carrie will receive (also well-deserved) is for her entire season, from November to mid March.

Yes, I considered that, but I think the point is still valid.

Having said that, does post-season play help determine who is All-American?  Or is the voting done by only considering regular season accomplishments?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on March 14, 2010, 11:26:04 PM
Quote from: KNIGHTRHOPE on March 14, 2010, 02:05:58 PM
I just returned from Bloomington also and was shocked to see in the GR RAG....Carrie Snikkers did NOT make first team all area girls squad for the small colleges in our area.   I have to credit that to IGNORANCE because other than that- the reporters are being biased or coerced.  REALLY....All-American last year as a sophomore and this year shuffled to second squad even tho her team does better and she has achieved what she has with an injured foot???  What a bunch of baloney.  I have watched her play over the years and all I can say is- If you are not that important to that team or representative of this area as a #1 player -I can guarantee you, Carrie, there are PLENTY of D1 programs that would love to have you even with only 1 Year of eligibility.  YOU DESERVE BETTER.  Like someone said in an earlier post- a very classy young lady.   Knowing you - you are probably fine with it-  but rest assured there are hundreds of people-maybe more that would name you best overall player for women in this area...!

How about putting BC from CU in her spot???or CVK from Calvin or JN from Aquinas???? They would have been one and done.  IMO. 

YOU GO GIRL.  Make your family and school proud despite the ignorance portrayed by a select few.  I can see them eating crow now.  -hopefully choking on it...



OK...I feel better......GO HOPE


Do you have a link to that story, I couldn't find it?  Thanks!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 15, 2010, 03:42:20 AM
I can't speak for the WBCA team but the D3hoops.com All-American team does consider the postseason, yes.

All-Region does not, just because of the timing required.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on March 15, 2010, 08:08:34 AM
Quote from: gohope on March 14, 2010, 11:26:04 PM
Quote from: KNIGHTRHOPE on March 14, 2010, 02:05:58 PM
I just returned from Bloomington also and was shocked to see in the GR RAG....Carrie Snikkers did NOT make first team all area girls squad for the small colleges in our area.   I have to credit that to IGNORANCE because other than that- the reporters are being biased or coerced.  REALLY....All-American last year as a sophomore and this year shuffled to second squad even tho her team does better and she has achieved what she has with an injured foot???  What a bunch of baloney.  I have watched her play over the years and all I can say is- If you are not that important to that team or representative of this area as a #1 player -I can guarantee you, Carrie, there are PLENTY of D1 programs that would love to have you even with only 1 Year of eligibility.  YOU DESERVE BETTER.  Like someone said in an earlier post- a very classy young lady.   Knowing you - you are probably fine with it-  but rest assured there are hundreds of people-maybe more that would name you best overall player for women in this area...!

How about putting BC from CU in her spot???or CVK from Calvin or JN from Aquinas???? They would have been one and done.  IMO.  

YOU GO GIRL.  Make your family and school proud despite the ignorance portrayed by a select few.  I can see them eating crow now.  -hopefully choking on it...



OK...I feel better......GO HOPE



Do you have a link to that story, I couldn't find it?  Thanks!

Here's the link:

http://www.mlive.com/smallcolleges/grandrapids/index.ssf/2010/03/ferris_states_justin_keenan_le.html
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 15, 2010, 10:15:20 AM
FWIW - stat comparison for Hope & Rochester.  Wish we would have gotten the early game on Friday, given the short turn around for the game on Saturday.  Fortunately Hope is pretty deep.



Offense     % 2pt   % 3pt      % FT
Hope     46.1   31.2      70.3
Rochester     41.3   30.8      66.2
            
Defense     % 2pt   % 3pt     
Hope     35   23.7     
Rochester     34.2   31.1     
            
Rebounding     Team   Opp      Margin
Hope     43.4   38.2      5.2
Rochester     43.2   38.1      5.1
            
Scoring     Team   Opp      Margin
Hope     73.9   51.6      22.3
Rochester     62.5   57.1      5.4
            
3 point shooting     Attempts   Made      Made/game
Hope     593   185      5.8
Rochester     504   155      5.3
            
Blocks     Total   per game     
Hope     198   6.2     
Rochester     150   5.2     
            
Steals     Total   per game     
Hope     499   15.6     
Rochester     223   7.7     
            
Turnovers     Total    per game     
Hope     594   18.6     
Rochester     550   19     
            
Assists     Total   per game     
Hope     479   15     
Rochester     440   15.2     
            
Assist/Turnover             
Hope     0.81        
Rochester     0.8        
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on March 15, 2010, 10:42:31 AM
When is Saturday's final set for? 3PM? I couldn't find any info on IWU's website.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dothedew on March 15, 2010, 11:52:31 AM
HOPE PLAYS FRI NIGHT AT 8PM ET (first game at 6PM ET)
On Sat, the third place game is at 12 ET and the championship game is at 3pm ET
(per the Hope.edu/athletics website)
Tickets which cover the whole weekend are 20 for adults and 15 for seniors/students.
According to the Hope ticket office, hope has 500 tickets and will be available at 1pm TUESDAY.
Remember, there are always other ways to get tickets...go to ILL WESLY this week and get them if you live down there....or try calling ILL WESLY to buy G.A. tickets.
4 years ago I went to the game and it was all general admission, does anyone have any news if it will be the same for this weekend?
Either way...it's gonna be fun...I plan/HOPE to be there....
GO HOPE!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dothedew on March 15, 2010, 11:58:58 AM
To be fair...I read on a different d3 message board that Hope is the first game...so who the heck knows....Below is the Hope link that has them playing at 8pm ET on Friday night.
http://www.hope.edu/pr/athletics/
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on March 15, 2010, 01:25:46 PM
Hope plays the second game, which tips at 7 pm central time/8 pm eastern time.

I believe the final is at 2 pm central time/3 pm eastern time on Saturday.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 15, 2010, 01:30:47 PM
Quote from: dothedew on March 15, 2010, 11:52:31 AM
HOPE PLAYS FRI NIGHT AT 8PM ET (first game at 6PM ET)
On Sat, the third place game is at 12 ET and the championship game is at 3pm ET
(per the Hope.edu/athletics website)
Tickets which cover the whole weekend are 20 for adults and 15 for seniors/students.
According to the Hope ticket office, hope has 500 tickets and will be available at 1pm TUESDAY.
Remember, there are always other ways to get tickets...go to ILL WESLY this week and get them if you live down there....or try calling ILL WESLY to buy G.A. tickets.
4 years ago I went to the game and it was all general admission, does anyone have any news if it will be the same for this weekend?
Either way...it's gonna be fun...I plan/HOPE to be there....
GO HOPE!
With Shirk having 2680 seats for basketball, I'm sure there will be plenty.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 15, 2010, 01:39:25 PM
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on March 15, 2010, 01:30:47 PM
Quote from: dothedew on March 15, 2010, 11:52:31 AM
HOPE PLAYS FRI NIGHT AT 8PM ET (first game at 6PM ET)
On Sat, the third place game is at 12 ET and the championship game is at 3pm ET
(per the Hope.edu/athletics website)
Tickets which cover the whole weekend are 20 for adults and 15 for seniors/students.
According to the Hope ticket office, hope has 500 tickets and will be available at 1pm TUESDAY.
Remember, there are always other ways to get tickets...go to ILL WESLY this week and get them if you live down there....or try calling ILL WESLY to buy G.A. tickets.
4 years ago I went to the game and it was all general admission, does anyone have any news if it will be the same for this weekend?
Either way...it's gonna be fun...I plan/HOPE to be there....
GO HOPE!
With Shirk having 2680 seats for basketball, I'm sure there will be plenty.


Probably correct, but keep in mind that WashU travels well, and is only 108 miles away.  From what I have heard, seats are sudo-general admission.   Your ticket will get you a seat in a specific section(s), but which seat is up to you (and when you get there).  Hope will have several of these sections.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 15, 2010, 01:55:29 PM
For the semis, I'd imagine that Hope and WashU will have big crowd advantages over Rochester and Amherst, respectively.  If Hope and WashU face off on Saturday, I'll be curious to see which crowd can make Shirk feel 'like home'.

That's a challenge for you guys! ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on March 15, 2010, 02:28:49 PM
Hope will have 3 sections of the 6 sections in the arena, not counting end zone seating. The tickets will be colored to designate which school sections you will be seating in.

Anne Bakker (Hope ticket office) will try to get more than the 500 tickets that are allocated to Hope. But, you can purchase directly from Ill Wesleyan and those tickets do not come out of Hope's allocation. Hope will have 2 fan buses going to the game. Cost = $110/ticket/2 to a room or $100/ticket/3-4 to a room, this includes Fri & Sat tickets.

Game tickets for Fri & Sat games (2 games/actually 4) are $20/adults $15/seniors-55 year old or older.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sumfun on March 15, 2010, 03:09:52 PM
Hard to compete with that turnout when you're flying from Rochester and Amherst and kids are on spring break scattered all over the globe.  The northeast cheering sections will have to be small, but mighty.  Home court is huge, but not always the clincher....just ask IWU.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dothedew on March 15, 2010, 03:20:28 PM
Does anyone know if my $20 pass for the weekend get me in to BOTH games on Friday? Or will they clear the gym? I assume it is good for both, but I was a little thrown off about Hope getting 3 of the 6 sections.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 15, 2010, 03:35:37 PM
Quote from: dothedew on March 15, 2010, 03:20:28 PM
Does anyone know if my $20 pass for the weekend get me in to BOTH games on Friday? Or will they clear the gym? I assume it is good for both, but I was a little thrown off about Hope getting 3 of the 6 sections.


That will get you in for both games on Friday. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 15, 2010, 03:57:33 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANEnsTc_2Zw
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 15, 2010, 04:09:17 PM
Here's the stats for WashU and Amherst



Offense     % 2pt   % 3pt      % FT
Washington U     44.4   34.8      68.6
Amherst     48   35.8      71.8
            
Defense     % 2pt   % 3pt     
Washington U     37.2   26.9     
Amherst     32.3   28.6     
            
Rebounding     Team   Opp      Margin
Washington U     43   35      8
Amherst     42.3   34.7      7.6
            
Scoring     Team   Opp      Margin
Washington U     69.7   52.4      17.3
Amherst     76.1   49      27.1
            
3 point shooting     Attempts   Made      Made/game
Washington U     425   148      5.1
Amherst     617   221      7.1
            
Blocks     Total   per game     
Washington U     147   5.1     
Amherst     163   5.3     
            
Steals     Total   per game     
Washington U     260      
Amherst     380   12.3     
            
Turnovers     Total    per game     
Washington U     422   14.6     
Amherst     474   15.3     
            
Assists     Total   per game     
Washington U     457   15.8     
Amherst     471   15.2     
            
Assist/Turnover             
Washington U     1.08        
Amherst     0.99        
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sumfun on March 15, 2010, 04:23:55 PM
Thanks for all the stats.

Certainly doesn't look on paper like a blow out either way....if anything, Amherst has a slight statistical advantage. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 15, 2010, 04:38:48 PM
Quote from: sumfun on March 15, 2010, 04:23:55 PM
Thanks for all the stats.

Certainly doesn't look on paper like a blow out either way....if anything, Amherst has a slight statistical advantage. 

Agreed - although doing these kinds of comparisons are fairly meaningless, since the level of competition is so varied - but then, what else do we have?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on March 15, 2010, 04:45:15 PM
Quote from: sac on March 15, 2010, 03:57:33 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANEnsTc_2Zw

Pretty Sweet!  Thanks for sharing!


We are "THE DUTCH!!!" :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on March 15, 2010, 06:41:40 PM
Anyone know why the 3rd place game is at 11AM local time? It seems rather ridiculous to me that whoever ends up playing in that game has to do so before noon. P

Couldn't they do at least 12 and 3 or 1 and 4? I'll play the role of thin-skinned D3 fan and say isn't it a bit disrespectful to put the game that early.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 15, 2010, 06:47:31 PM
Quote from: ChicagoHopeNut on March 15, 2010, 06:41:40 PM
Anyone know why the 3rd place game is at 11AM local time? It seems rather ridiculous to me that whoever ends up playing in that game has to do so before noon. P

Couldn't they do at least 12 and 3 or 1 and 4? I'll play the role of thin-skinned D3 fan and say isn't it a bit disrespectful to put the game that early.

My understanding is that, if they want the title game on national TV, TV calls the shots on time.  And having the 3rd place game AFTER the title game is a non-starter.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on March 15, 2010, 06:52:18 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 15, 2010, 06:47:31 PM
Quote from: ChicagoHopeNut on March 15, 2010, 06:41:40 PM
Anyone know why the 3rd place game is at 11AM local time? It seems rather ridiculous to me that whoever ends up playing in that game has to do so before noon. P

Couldn't they do at least 12 and 3 or 1 and 4? I'll play the role of thin-skinned D3 fan and say isn't it a bit disrespectful to put the game that early.

My understanding is that, if they want the title game on national TV, TV calls the shots on time.  And having the 3rd place game AFTER the title game is a non-starter.

Is the game on the CBSCollegeSports station? CSTV maybe?

If so, that makes sense. Gripe, officially retracted.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 15, 2010, 07:11:02 PM
yes the championship  game is on tv
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 15, 2010, 07:21:39 PM
In the interest of making sure the title game starts on-time for tv.......I'm sure they make sure there is plenty of extra time between games.......it also allows the two teams vying for the National Championship to have a set warm-up schedule and not have to worry about waiting in the tunnel while the consolation game goes overtime or something screwy like that.


I imagine if you're at the final four as a player I really don't think you care when you play really.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sumfun on March 15, 2010, 08:11:33 PM
Add to that the the games take a bit longer as they have TV time outs....unlike webcast normal D3 games.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on March 15, 2010, 08:19:17 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 15, 2010, 01:55:29 PM
For the semis, I'd imagine that Hope and WashU will have big crowd advantages over Rochester and Amherst, respectively.  If Hope and WashU face off on Saturday, I'll be curious to see which crowd can make Shirk feel 'like home'.

That's a challenge for you guys! ;)

Last Fri & Sat's attendance at Washington U was 431 & 497. 497 fans for Washington U against George Fox?? Where was Washington U's fan support for that home game? I think Hope will have the fan advantage easily if both teams advance.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 15, 2010, 08:32:19 PM
Quote from: jspiii on March 15, 2010, 08:19:17 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 15, 2010, 01:55:29 PM
For the semis, I'd imagine that Hope and WashU will have big crowd advantages over Rochester and Amherst, respectively.  If Hope and WashU face off on Saturday, I'll be curious to see which crowd can make Shirk feel 'like home'.

That's a challenge for you guys! ;)

Last Fri & Sat's attendance at Washington U was 431 & 497. 497 fans for Washington U against George Fox?? Where was Washington U's fan support for that home game? I think Hope will have the fan advantage easily if both teams advance.

Depends also on the B-N 'regulars' - I don't know for sure, but would guess they would go more for WashU.  So you might have more to overcome than WashU partisans, per se!

Maybe you'd better aim for 4-5 buses! ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Titan Q on March 15, 2010, 08:59:23 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 15, 2010, 08:32:19 PM

Depends also on the B-N 'regulars' - I don't know for sure, but would guess they would go more for WashU.  So you might have more to overcome than WashU partisans, per se!


Why would non-affiliated fans from B-N root for Wash U more than the other 3 teams?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 15, 2010, 09:55:31 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on March 15, 2010, 08:59:23 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 15, 2010, 08:32:19 PM

Depends also on the B-N 'regulars' - I don't know for sure, but would guess they would go more for WashU.  So you might have more to overcome than WashU partisans, per se!


Why would non-affiliated fans from B-N root for Wash U more than the other 3 teams?

Like I said, I don't know.  But I would guess there might be more ties to St. Louis than to the other areas.  I think a majority of spectators prefer to have a rooting interest (rather than be a totally disinterested fan of bball), and, if so, WashU seems a more likely candidate than the others.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Titan Q on March 15, 2010, 10:03:49 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 15, 2010, 09:55:31 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on March 15, 2010, 08:59:23 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 15, 2010, 08:32:19 PM

Depends also on the B-N 'regulars' - I don't know for sure, but would guess they would go more for WashU.  So you might have more to overcome than WashU partisans, per se!


Why would non-affiliated fans from B-N root for Wash U more than the other 3 teams?

Like I said, I don't know.  But I would guess there might be more ties to St. Louis than to the other areas.  I think a majority of spectators prefer to have a rooting interest (rather than be a totally disinterested fan of bball), and, if so, WashU seems a more likely candidate than the others.
I don't think that will be the case.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 15, 2010, 10:18:31 PM
Quote from: jspiii on March 15, 2010, 08:19:17 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 15, 2010, 01:55:29 PM
For the semis, I'd imagine that Hope and WashU will have big crowd advantages over Rochester and Amherst, respectively.  If Hope and WashU face off on Saturday, I'll be curious to see which crowd can make Shirk feel 'like home'.

That's a challenge for you guys! ;)

Last Fri & Sat's attendance at Washington U was 431 & 497. 497 fans for Washington U against George Fox?? Where was Washington U's fan support for that home game? I think Hope will have the fan advantage easily if both teams advance.

Washington University was on spring break last week, they return to classes Tuesday.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 16, 2010, 12:46:58 PM
Congratulations to:

Carrie Snikkers, D3Hoops Great Lakes Region POY, and to
Carissa Verkaik, D3Hoops Great Lakes Region Rookie of the Year

Both were selected to the All-Great Lakes Region First team.

Again, CONGRATULATIONS, LADIES ! ! !

Here's the link to the full listing for the Great Lakes Region teams:

http://www.d3hoops.com/all-region/10/glakewom.htm
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on March 16, 2010, 01:33:19 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on March 16, 2010, 12:46:58 PM
Congratulations to:

Carrie Snikkers, D3Hoops Great Lakes Region POY, and to
Carissa Verkaik, D3Hoops Great Lakes Region Rookie of the Year

Both were selected to the All-Great Lakes Region First team.

Again, CONGRATULATIONS, LADIES ! ! !

Here's the link to the full listing for the Great Lakes Region teams:

http://www.d3hoops.com/all-region/10/glakewom.htm

Congratulations to both. Lots of talent in the MIAA.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: House on March 16, 2010, 02:18:02 PM
Quote from: hope1 on March 15, 2010, 07:11:02 PM
yes the championship  game is on tv

What Network?
If I don't receive it I would like to find a location to watch.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on March 16, 2010, 02:29:32 PM
Quote from: House on March 16, 2010, 02:18:02 PM
Quote from: hope1 on March 15, 2010, 07:11:02 PM
yes the championship  game is on tv

What Network?
If I don't receive it I would like to find a location to watch.


The game will be on the CBS College Sports Network. Men's game at 1, women at 3PM Est.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on March 16, 2010, 02:43:46 PM
I was just at the ticket office and Hope has sold out its allotment. There is a waiting list.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 16, 2010, 02:59:51 PM
This is the 2nd year in a row Carrie Snikkers has been named d3hoops.com 1st team All-Region and the 2nd year in a row as the Regions MVP.


They've only been naming a regional player of the year since 2006 and the MIAA has swept the last 4

2010--Carrie Snikkers, Hope
2009--Carrie Snikkers, Hope
2008--Allison Kessler, St. Mary's
2007--Lisa Winkle, Calvin
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WUPHF on March 16, 2010, 04:02:23 PM
Quote from: jspiii on March 15, 2010, 08:19:17 PM
[Last Fri & Sat's attendance at Washington U was 431 & 497. 497 fans for Washington U against George Fox?? Where was Washington U's fan support for that home game? I think Hope will have the fan advantage easily if both teams advance.

497 as an estimate seems high.  They did sell tickets, but undergraduates were free, and not necessarily recorded.  It looked as though we had more the night before, in part because we had the Mount Union and Carthage fans in the house.

The University is providing free transportation, tickets, hotel, and tickets interested undergraduates.  I would expect a full bus, but I will be surprised if they get two to go.

Washington University will have a good crowd, but not the crowd that one would expect, considering how close we are to Bloomington-Normal.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 16, 2010, 04:45:44 PM
Am I correct in understanding that undergrads get a bus ride, tickets, and a hotel for free?  Or did I mis-understand and only the bus ride is free?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on March 16, 2010, 04:59:05 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 16, 2010, 04:45:44 PM
Am I correct in understanding that undergrads get a bus ride, tickets, and a hotel for free?  Or did I mis-understand and only the bus ride is free?

Appears that the only thing a student would need to pay for is food.  More here: http://bearsports.wustl.edu/releases/FanBus.html
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 16, 2010, 05:06:04 PM
Quote from: tniem on March 16, 2010, 04:59:05 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 16, 2010, 04:45:44 PM
Am I correct in understanding that undergrads get a bus ride, tickets, and a hotel for free?  Or did I mis-understand and only the bus ride is free?

Appears that the only thing a student would need to pay for is food.  More here: http://bearsports.wustl.edu/releases/FanBus.html

Dang... Nice deal for the students! SAC or some kind of Res Life equivalent, and/or the athletic office from Hope should do something similar. I bet if it were "free" lots more Hope kids would go.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 16, 2010, 05:19:59 PM
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on March 16, 2010, 05:06:04 PM
Quote from: tniem on March 16, 2010, 04:59:05 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 16, 2010, 04:45:44 PM
Am I correct in understanding that undergrads get a bus ride, tickets, and a hotel for free?  Or did I mis-understand and only the bus ride is free?

Appears that the only thing a student would need to pay for is food.  More here: http://bearsports.wustl.edu/releases/FanBus.html

Dang... Nice deal for the students! SAC or some kind of Res Life equivalent, and/or the athletic office from Hope should do something similar. I bet if it were "free" lots more Hope kids would go.

Considering WashU's tuition (See http://news.wustl.edu/news/Pages/13263.aspx) it's the least the school can do.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 16, 2010, 05:30:03 PM
Quote from: oldknight on March 16, 2010, 05:19:59 PM
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on March 16, 2010, 05:06:04 PM
Quote from: tniem on March 16, 2010, 04:59:05 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 16, 2010, 04:45:44 PM
Am I correct in understanding that undergrads get a bus ride, tickets, and a hotel for free?  Or did I mis-understand and only the bus ride is free?

Appears that the only thing a student would need to pay for is food.  More here: http://bearsports.wustl.edu/releases/FanBus.html

Dang... Nice deal for the students! SAC or some kind of Res Life equivalent, and/or the athletic office from Hope should do something similar. I bet if it were "free" lots more Hope kids would go.

Considering WashU's tuition (See http://news.wustl.edu/news/Pages/13263.aspx) it's the least the school can do.

Not to mention that their endowment is probably roughly equal to that of the entire MIAA! ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 16, 2010, 05:56:24 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 16, 2010, 05:30:03 PM
Quote from: oldknight on March 16, 2010, 05:19:59 PM
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on March 16, 2010, 05:06:04 PM
Quote from: tniem on March 16, 2010, 04:59:05 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 16, 2010, 04:45:44 PM
Am I correct in understanding that undergrads get a bus ride, tickets, and a hotel for free?  Or did I mis-understand and only the bus ride is free?

Appears that the only thing a student would need to pay for is food.  More here: http://bearsports.wustl.edu/releases/FanBus.html

Dang... Nice deal for the students! SAC or some kind of Res Life equivalent, and/or the athletic office from Hope should do something similar. I bet if it were "free" lots more Hope kids would go.

Considering WashU's tuition (See http://news.wustl.edu/news/Pages/13263.aspx) it's the least the school can do.

Not to mention that their endowment is probably roughly equal to that of the entire MIAA! ;)

More like 3 to 4 x or more, I'm not sure the entire MIAA equals $1 billion..........WashU has an endowment of $4 billion, roughly $350,000 per student..........the highest in the MIAA I believe is Albion, at $70,000 per student.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WUPHF on March 16, 2010, 06:40:00 PM
Free transportation, room, and tickets.  In my previous post, I said tickets and tickets.  Actually, students only get one set of tickets.  Students only pay for food.

They did this in the fall for Volleyball and Soccer, the two other teams that made the Final Four.  Incidentally, Hope College also had more fans at the Volleyball Final Four.  No need to mention the result of that semi-final match.

The endowment at Washington University has recovered considerably and is actually closer five billion in total, but it takes a lot to operate a world-class Medical School and Top 10 programs in almost everything else.  The University operates as several institutions and every institution has its own endowment.  The money does not necessarily trickle down.  I would not be surprised if the Hope College athletics budget was larger than ours on a per athlete basis.  Not at all.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: monsoon on March 16, 2010, 06:45:46 PM
Even with folks needing to pay for them, Hope hasn't had any trouble getting rid of their tickets; and looking at the attendance numbers from last weekend, Hope had more fans at IWU than Washington had at home.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on March 16, 2010, 06:46:22 PM
Quote from: WUH on March 16, 2010, 06:40:00 PM
I would not be surprised if the Hope College athletics budget was larger than ours on a per athlete basis.  Not at all.

If it weren't for Hope's massive football team it might be close. But the simple fact WashU has to fly all over for the UAA would bring it's costs well above schools that bus everywhere.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WUPHF on March 16, 2010, 07:11:23 PM
Quote from: ChicagoHopeNut on March 16, 2010, 06:46:22 PM
If it weren't for Hope's massive football team it might be close. But the simple fact WashU has to fly all over for the UAA would bring it's costs well above schools that bus everywhere.

The flights do add to the cost for sure, though if you look with the UAA scheduling, the basketball teams only had three round-trip flights this season.  The volleyball team only had two.  My understanding is that every other trip involved a bus.

The flights may be offset by debt payments on the DeVos Fieldhouse, unless that is paid for in full. 

Our beautiful cinder block Field House was last renovated in 1984 and the football field dates back to the 1904 Olympics, though, admittedly, we did add a turf field a few years ago.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WUPHF on March 16, 2010, 07:20:03 PM
Incidentally, if it sounded like I was bragging, let me say that I love Washington University.  I love it, but I just work here.  My alma mater was much more like Hope, where 8-15 students per course was the norm.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on March 17, 2010, 12:33:47 AM
QuoteI would not be surprised if the Hope College athletics budget was larger than ours on a per athlete basis.  Not at all.

Federal data makes this kind of comparison possible.  From the latest available information...

Hope: $431,216 in total operating expenses for 574 athletes = $754.73

Washington U.: $962,281 in total operatig expenses for 589 athletes = $1,633.75

Washington U spent approx. $119k on men's and women's basketball each ($238,000 total).  Hope spent $18,370 on men and $53,259 on women.  The footnote says the women's team had an international trip and a domestic trip to Florida while the men didn't.

You can fool around with the data yourself if so inclined.

http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on March 17, 2010, 08:18:33 AM
Quote from: gordonmann on March 17, 2010, 12:33:47 AM
QuoteI would not be surprised if the Hope College athletics budget was larger than ours on a per athlete basis.  Not at all.

Federal data makes this kind of comparison possible.  From the latest available information...

Hope: $431,216 in total operating expenses for 574 athletes = $754.73

Washington U.: $962,281 in total operatig expenses for 589 athletes = $1,633.75

Washington U spent approx. $119k on men's and women's basketball each ($238,000 total).  Hope spent $18,370 on men and $53,259 on women.  The footnote says the women's team had an international trip and a domestic trip to Florida while the men didn't.

You can fool around with the data yourself if so inclined.

http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/


You can look at   the MIAA schools here:  http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/InstList.aspx

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 17, 2010, 08:22:49 AM
Tom Renner said on his daily sports update this morning that Hope received additional tickets yesterday, and was able to get tickets for everyone on the waiting list.  He also said there are a handful of tickets still available as well as space for a few more folks on the second bus.  Tom's estimate is that there will be between 800 and 900 Hope fans at IWU!!!  GO HOPE

The team is leaving today at 1:30pm from the DeVos, and there will be an official "send off", including refreshments.  I think he mentioned hot chocolate and coffee, but with the great weather we're having, something cold might be better   :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on March 17, 2010, 10:48:56 AM
Since it was my understanding that Hope had sold out of tickets, I called IWU directly and they were able to set aside tickets at the will call window.

However, if you go this route be sure to take cash or checks with you to IWU as they are not able to accept credit or debit card payment either by phone or on site.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hwbb on March 17, 2010, 12:19:40 PM
A "well-done" to Gordon Mann for his excellent piece on Hope on the D3Hoops front page.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Ethelred the Unready on March 17, 2010, 01:00:08 PM
Quote from: WUH on March 16, 2010, 06:40:00 PM
Free transportation, room, and tickets.  In my previous post, I said tickets and tickets.  Actually, students only get one set of tickets.  Students only pay for food.

They did this in the fall for Volleyball and Soccer, the two other teams that made the Final Four.  Incidentally, Hope College also had more fans at the Volleyball Final Four.  No need to mention the result of that semi-final match.

The endowment at Washington University has recovered considerably and is actually closer five billion in total, but it takes a lot to operate a world-class Medical School and Top 10 programs in almost everything else.  The University operates as several institutions and every institution has its own endowment.  The money does not necessarily trickle down.  I would not be surprised if the Hope College athletics budget was larger than ours on a per athlete basis.  Not at all.

I believe Rochester is charging $30 for bus ride, hotel and tix for students.   Leaves Thursday night at 11 and returns Saturday after they win the championship.   ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dothedew on March 17, 2010, 01:30:46 PM
WOW. What a great article on front page of d3hoops.com I also say THANKS for such a solid article. I know we don't say this enough...but thanks to EVERYONE at d3hoops.com for everything you do to help us enjoy our Div III hoops.
This is a solid solid website that I have enjoyed over the years.
I can't wait for Friday night....GO HOPE!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 17, 2010, 03:41:28 PM
yes what a really  nice article  go  hope this week  2 wins
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 17, 2010, 03:52:59 PM
Quote from: dothedew on March 17, 2010, 01:30:46 PM
WOW. What a great article on front page of d3hoops.com I also say THANKS for such a solid article. I know we don't say this enough...but thanks to EVERYONE at d3hoops.com for everything you do to help us enjoy our Div III hoops.
This is a solid solid website that I have enjoyed over the years.
I can't wait for Friday night....GO HOPE!

See you in blo-no!!!

Go HOPE!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: fannie on March 17, 2010, 03:59:04 PM
Nice article...here's the quick link to it!!  :-)

http://www.d3hoops.com/news.php?item=3029
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on March 17, 2010, 04:53:27 PM
Glad you enjoyed it.  See y'all in 48 hours or so.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on March 17, 2010, 11:20:56 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 17, 2010, 08:22:49 AM
Tom Renner said on his daily sports update this morning that Hope received additional tickets yesterday, and was able to get tickets for everyone on the waiting list.  He also said there are a handful of tickets still available as well as space for a few more folks on the second bus.  Tom's estimate is that there will be between 800 and 900 Hope fans at IWU!!!  GO HOPE

The team is leaving today at 1:30pm from the DeVos, and there will be an official "send off", including refreshments.  I think he mentioned hot chocolate and coffee, but with the great weather we're having, something cold might be better    :)


Maybe Stinger could help out!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on March 18, 2010, 09:27:23 AM
Quote from: northb on March 17, 2010, 11:20:56 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 17, 2010, 08:22:49 AM
Tom Renner said on his daily sports update this morning that Hope received additional tickets yesterday, and was able to get tickets for everyone on the waiting list.  He also said there are a handful of tickets still available as well as space for a few more folks on the second bus.  Tom's estimate is that there will be between 800 and 900 Hope fans at IWU!!!  GO HOPE

The team is leaving today at 1:30pm from the DeVos, and there will be an official "send off", including refreshments.  I think he mentioned hot chocolate and coffee, but with the great weather we're having, something cold might be better    :)


Maybe Stinger could help out!

Now don't get all giddy!  Snow is forecast for the weekend!!#$#@
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 18, 2010, 09:54:58 AM
Quote from: wwjjdd on March 18, 2010, 09:27:23 AM
Quote from: northb on March 17, 2010, 11:20:56 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 17, 2010, 08:22:49 AM
Tom Renner said on his daily sports update this morning that Hope received additional tickets yesterday, and was able to get tickets for everyone on the waiting list.  He also said there are a handful of tickets still available as well as space for a few more folks on the second bus.  Tom's estimate is that there will be between 800 and 900 Hope fans at IWU!!!  GO HOPE

The team is leaving today at 1:30pm from the DeVos, and there will be an official "send off", including refreshments.  I think he mentioned hot chocolate and coffee, but with the great weather we're having, something cold might be better    :)


Maybe Stinger could help out!

Now don't get all giddy!  Snow is forecast for the weekend!!#$#@

HOPEfully, by the time the snow starts falling we will be celebrating a national championship.  If so, we can just consider the snow as celebratory confetti from heaven (just making lemonade)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on March 18, 2010, 10:57:03 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 18, 2010, 09:54:58 AM
Quote from: wwjjdd on March 18, 2010, 09:27:23 AM
Quote from: northb on March 17, 2010, 11:20:56 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 17, 2010, 08:22:49 AM
Tom Renner said on his daily sports update this morning that Hope received additional tickets yesterday, and was able to get tickets for everyone on the waiting list.  He also said there are a handful of tickets still available as well as space for a few more folks on the second bus.  Tom's estimate is that there will be between 800 and 900 Hope fans at IWU!!!  GO HOPE

The team is leaving today at 1:30pm from the DeVos, and there will be an official "send off", including refreshments.  I think he mentioned hot chocolate and coffee, but with the great weather we're having, something cold might be better    :)


Maybe Stinger could help out!

Now don't get all giddy!  Snow is forecast for the weekend!!#$#@

HOPEfully, by the time the snow starts falling we will be celebrating a national championship.  If so, we can just consider the snow as celebratory confetti from heaven (just making lemonade)

Amen!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 18, 2010, 06:45:12 PM
hope to see  a big crowd  of orange and  blue friday  night
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: OC_SID on March 18, 2010, 10:40:42 PM
Congrats to Carrie Snikkers:

http://www.wbca.org/releases/2010DIIIPOYPR.html
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 18, 2010, 10:48:17 PM
Quote from: OC_SID on March 18, 2010, 10:40:42 PM
Congrats to Carrie Snikkers:

http://www.wbca.org/releases/2010DIIIPOYPR.html

that deserves a wow

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/sports/sports_hope/x673426600/Hopes-Snikkers-named-NCAA-Division-III-Player-of-Year
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on March 19, 2010, 06:06:45 AM
Quote from: OC_SID on March 18, 2010, 10:40:42 PM
Congrats to Carrie Snikkers:

http://www.wbca.org/releases/2010DIIIPOYPR.html


GREAT achievement for Carrie and the Hope team!!!  Congrats!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 19, 2010, 07:32:43 AM
Quote from: OC_SID on March 18, 2010, 10:40:42 PM
Congrats to Carrie Snikkers:

http://www.wbca.org/releases/2010DIIIPOYPR.html

When my wife and I saw the local TV news report on the award, we were thrilled. We also reminisced a bit. It would be an exaggeration to say Carrie grew up in our house but she spent time there and I have home video to prove it. Recently I was going through some old footage of my kids and among the video was a segment of eight year old Carrie playing on the oldknight front porch along with my daughters, doing what grade school age girls everwhere do. To realize that our daughters' playmate is now being honored as national POY is a surreal experience. If my wife and I are thrilled we can't imagine the excitement the Snikkers family is experiencing.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hwbb on March 19, 2010, 10:27:59 AM
Quote from: gohope on March 19, 2010, 06:06:45 AM
Quote from: OC_SID on March 18, 2010, 10:40:42 PM
Congrats to Carrie Snikkers:

http://www.wbca.org/releases/2010DIIIPOYPR.html


GREAT achievement for Carrie and the Hope team!!!  Congrats!!

Now let's see if the whole team can bring home a trophy of its own. It's game day! GO HOPE!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KNIGHTRHOPE on March 19, 2010, 11:22:30 AM
Go Hope!!!  This will be an emotional weekend for all of the girls but especially Philly and Jenny.  You two are wonderful young ladies and a credit to the sport of basketball!!!  You will be missed!  Play your hearts out today and help your team bring back the trophy.  GO HOPE!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on March 19, 2010, 04:24:15 PM
GO HOPE!!!! Here's to a successful weekend.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 19, 2010, 07:47:19 PM
OT in the first game... Maybe that evens out our late start.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AndersDY on March 19, 2010, 09:30:45 PM
Just finally got around to turning on the live feed before halftime. 40-30 at half. The audio makes it sound as if Hope has a sizeable crowd advantage. Really wish I could have gone this weekend.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 19, 2010, 09:43:58 PM
Quote from: AndersDY on March 19, 2010, 09:30:45 PM
Just finally got around to turning on the live feed before halftime. 40-30 at half. The audio makes it sound as if Hope has a sizeable crowd advantage. Really wish I could have gone this weekend.

I'd be totally shocked if they didn't!

Tomorrow (if they win) is the test - I suspect Hope can beat out both WashU and the locals with StL identification, but you may have to work at it! ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on March 19, 2010, 10:54:13 PM
Nice win by the Dutch. Tough D, good rebounding. They'd better practice free throws before tomorrow's game, and get a good night of sleep.

Wish I could be there tomorrow.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope#1 on March 19, 2010, 11:28:18 PM
Go Dutch!  I watched the game online and it's clear to me that this is a true team!  There is no selfishness which makes it difficult for the opponent to concentrate on just one or two players.  Congrats to Carrie on her award but let's get some rest and come out strong for the game tomorrow.  Play like you have all year with good defense, good rebounding and movement on the offensive end and you will realize your dream for the year.  Good luck and bring home a National Title to the second Happiest and Healthiest area in the country (this may move us to #1).  Good luck!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 19, 2010, 11:48:41 PM
Hope and WashU are nearly statistical clones of each other.

http://www.hope.edu/pr/athletics/wbb/stats/0910/teamcume.htm

http://bearsports.wustl.edu/womensbball/teamcume.htm
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 20, 2010, 01:31:45 AM
I realized tonight that I have a family commitment that make take me away from any source of sound/video for almost the entire game tomorrow. I know the game is being televised/streamed, but I'm wondering (a Hope win or loss) how to get a copy of the recording (quickly) to see the game in its entirety. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on March 20, 2010, 08:53:34 AM
Carrie Snikkers is a deserving Player of the Year, without question. Carissa Verkaik has earned the ink she has received. But here's a shout-out to two Hope freshmen: Meredith Kussmaul and Liz Ellis. The former put in 15 for the Dutch last night, and Ellis has really been terrific. In the games where I've seen her, I've been very impressed with her poise as well as her all-around game. She doesn't play like a freshman at the point, and has hit some big shots in the last two tourney games. She's impressive.

Go Hope! Bring home the walnut and bronze.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on March 20, 2010, 09:04:31 AM
Brian Van Ochten's story on the Morehouse father-son tandem:

http://www.mlive.com/smallcolleges/grandrapids/index.ssf/2010/03/hope_womens_basketball_coach_b.html
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: md241 on March 20, 2010, 09:17:34 AM
I think coach Morehouse needs to bench Philly Greene for the title game as a starter and bring her off the bench  and start Allie Cerone. She has absolutely stunk out the joint in the tournament so far, and even in the past 2 Elite Eight appearances she has not played well. I know she's a senior, but Coach Mo has to think about winning the game, not her feelings.
There- I said it!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 20, 2010, 09:55:44 AM
Quote from: md241 on March 20, 2010, 09:17:34 AM
I think coach Morehouse needs to bench Philly Greene for the title game as a starter and bring her off the bench  and start Allie Cerone. She has absolutely stunk out the joint in the tournament so far, and even in the past 2 Elite Eight appearances she has not played well. I know she's a senior, but Coach Mo has to think about winning the game, not her feelings.
There- I said it!

Hmmm . . . were you at the same game the rest of us were?  Although last night was an average Philly night (8 points, including 4 of 4 free throws, 3 assists, a steal, some rebounds, and only 1 turnover) she is an invaluable part of this team, and Hope is a better team when she is on the floor.  And her assists don't count a huge three that she set up near the end, with a baseline drive to draw the defense, followed by a pass to the wing, which found the open three.  (They had to defend her, because she had just made a spectacular reverse layup on the same play.)  Big shoes to fill next year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 20, 2010, 09:58:24 AM
Quote from: AndersDY on March 19, 2010, 09:30:45 PM
Just finally got around to turning on the live feed before halftime. 40-30 at half. The audio makes it sound as if Hope has a sizeable crowd advantage. Really wish I could have gone this weekend.

I would estimate that Hope had around 1000 fans last night - I would expect that number to grow a bit today.  WashU's crowd was maybe 350 or so.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on March 20, 2010, 10:58:21 AM
Quote from: md241 on March 20, 2010, 09:17:34 AM
I think coach Morehouse needs to bench Philly Greene for the title game as a starter and bring her off the bench  and start Allie Cerone. She has absolutely stunk out the joint in the tournament so far, and even in the past 2 Elite Eight appearances she has not played well. I know she's a senior, but Coach Mo has to think about winning the game, not her feelings.
There- I said it!
At 32-1, I think Coach Mo probably has done a pretty good job of picking his starting five by himself up to this point.  ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: kate on March 20, 2010, 11:08:11 AM
From this rabid MAC, Del Val fan, i want to wish Hope ALL the luck in the world in their game today!  GO HOPE!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on March 20, 2010, 01:49:39 PM
If you can't be at the game:

Direct TV channel 613
DishTV channel 152
Comcast Cable channel 734

I've got the DVR set.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on March 20, 2010, 01:53:54 PM
md241....to follow up on a previous comment you obviously were not at the same game as the rest of us last night.

I will go further and say you do not know much about basketball and your observation skills are poor.  Philly is not on the floor primarily for offense.  She usually draws the toughest defensive assignment, brings energy to the game and often is the one that comes up with the key rebound or steal.

She is the team's leader and a big part of its heart and soul of the team would be ripped out to make such a change.  I can state for a fact that she charges up the rest of the team and gives them confidence that a true defensive stopper has their back in close games.

She and Allie do not play the same position or fill the same role.  

What's more if you are really a Hope fan it is pretty stupid to make such a comment today.  

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: md241 on March 20, 2010, 04:14:52 PM
Am I really a Hope fan? No, not really. I haven't missed a home game (men and women) in 5 years. What a dingbat you are. Philly just does not seem to be in the game either offensively or defensively, as is the whole Hope team in the first half vs Wash. U. Even the TV commentators were saying Hope is not communicating defensively as a team. Hope is shooting less than 20 percent so far, and attempting  WAY too many 3-pointers. If Wash U. develops a double digit lead in the first five minutes of the second half(the most important part of any basketball game), and Hope continues its dismal(so far) shooting, get in the car and head back to Holland, it's over! By the way, I would LOVE to be proven wrong, but I don't like the way this game is headed. Hope is not used to coming from behind in big games, unfortunately.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 20, 2010, 04:16:14 PM
Philana Greene's steal, behind-the-back dribble and pass to put Hope ahead 27-26 reminded me of HPU's Meia Daniels from the 2008 Championship team.  ;)

Go Hope!  It is good to see the Hope players that we saw in Brownwood playing for the Championship.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on March 20, 2010, 04:44:53 PM
I'll be real curious to hear from those that were at the game (or even television) about the defense in this game.  Shooting percentages seem to be pretty low (but that also includes FT shooting) and just wondering what seems to be most responsible.  Turnovers are not high but perhaps the Ds have done a great job closing on shooters...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on March 20, 2010, 06:52:49 PM
Quote from: md241 on March 20, 2010, 09:17:34 AM
I think coach Morehouse needs to bench Philly Greene for the title game as a starter and bring her off the bench  and start Allie Cerone. She has absolutely stunk out the joint in the tournament so far, and even in the past 2 Elite Eight appearances she has not played well. I know she's a senior, but Coach Mo has to think about winning the game, not her feelings.
There- I said it!

I think you would have been better off keeping that thought unexpressed.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: fannie on March 20, 2010, 10:59:33 PM
GREAT article - sentiments shared by many Hope Women's Basketball followers no doubt - perhaps md241 needs to read the article a few times...........I'm thinking Mr. Morehouse makes good choices as to whom he puts on the court.

http://www.mlive.com/smallcolleges/grandrapids/index.ssf/2010/03/philana_greene_leaves_heart_an.html
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 20, 2010, 11:31:57 PM
Four years ago, Hope beat what arguably was a better Washington U team, 92 to 89, en route to its national championship—thanks to a red hot shooting night (54% shooting, including 11 3's).

This afternoon, Hope, despite being arguably a better team, lost to Washington U—thanks to an off shooting night.  Carrie and Philly (who was indeed amazing in the 2nd half) combined for 14 of 26.  Alas, the rest of the team was 6 for 38, and the team's 3-point shooting (limited to 2 each from Carrie and Jenny) was 21 percent on mostly good looks.  

Two turning-point moments in the game seemed to be Carrie's second incidental contact foul in the first half, which led to her sitting the rest of the half while WU built a small lead, and Jenny's hard-luck in-and-out 3 point shot that almost tied the game and 46. . . . but instead led to a quick WU basket and a 5-point lead.  If that shot had been a quarter-inch longer, I think we might be talking about how the two seniors, who played their hearts out, willed the Hope comeback for a national championship.

My verdict on the weekend is that Hope played well, with great defense and good offensive effort, but shot not so well . . . . although some of that on Saturday was hampered by referee no-calls, or so it seemed to the orange-clad 2/3rds of the near-capacity crowd that was cheering on the Hope women.

My verdict on the season is that this was as good as any Hope women's team I have followed, and a great pleasure to watch, thanks both to their athleticism and their radiant joy in the game and in each other.  Their achievements and spirit are a credit to their coach, their school, and, especially, to themselves.  

With a great lineup of players returning next year, many of us will be looking forward to next November.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on March 20, 2010, 11:55:11 PM
Just back from the game:
 Greene left everything she had on the court in the second half...she should be proud of her effort.
 After the game was over, Snikkers was trying to cheer up the players on the Hope team for the accomplishments they had achieved, I was impressed with that.
 Congratulation to Jenny Cowen and Philana Greene for four great years, you will be missed.
  Media timeouts are not a friend to Hope basketball...the physical & mental strain put on opposing teams by Hope player rotations were non-existent in the Final Four.
 Shirk Center.....we will be back.
 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on March 21, 2010, 02:43:30 AM
Quote from: pointlem on March 20, 2010, 11:31:57 PM
Four years ago, Hope beat what arguably was a better Washington U team, 92 to 89, en route to its national championship—thanks to a red hot shooting night (54% shooting, including 11 3's).

This afternoon, Hope, despite being arguably a better team, lost to Washington U—thanks to an off shooting night.  Carrie and Philly (who was indeed amazing in the 2nd half) combined for 14 of 26.  Alas, the rest of the team was 6 for 38, and the team's 3-point shooting (limited to 2 each from Carrie and Jenny) was 21 percent on mostly good looks.  

Two turning-point moments in the game seemed to be Carrie's second incidental contact foul in the first half, which led to her sitting the rest of the half while WU built a small lead, and Jenny's hard-luck in-and-out 3 point shot that almost tied the game and 46. . . . but instead led to a quick WU basket and a 5-point lead.  If that shot had been a quarter-inch longer, I think we might be talking about how the two seniors, who played their hearts out, willed the Hope comeback for a national championship.

My verdict on the weekend is that Hope played well, with great defense and good offensive effort, but shot not so well . . . . although some of that on Saturday was hampered by referee no-calls, or so it seemed to the orange-clad 2/3rds of the near-capacity crowd that was cheering on the Hope women.

My verdict on the season is that this was as good as any Hope women's team I have followed, and a great pleasure to watch, thanks both to their athleticism and their radiant joy in the game and in each other.  Their achievements and spirit are a credit to their coach, their school, and, especially, to themselves.  

With a great lineup of players returning next year, many of us will be looking forward to next November.

Having watched the replay of Carrie's "second foul" multiple times, I can safely say that calling the contact "incidental" makes it seem like there was more contact than there actually was. I will allow my other judgments concerning the officiating to pass in silence.

That said, the killer in the game was Hope's off-shooting night, and the fact that WashU hit their free throws down the stretch.

Congratulations to the Hope women on a fine season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: md241 on March 21, 2010, 08:00:20 AM
I could understand if this loss in the tournament was a one-time fluke, but this has occurred THREE tournaments in a row where the offense "took a vacation", and that's a pattern to me. This current team just can't seem to perform on the really big stage, at least offensively. Maybe Hope needs to go in favor of a coach who'd install a high-powered offense; these defense-oriented teams don't seem to perform in the big games. For two players to account for 40 of the 59 points is not good. Where was our vaunted bench? Erica Bruinsma might as well have stayed home for all she contributed. I just think it's time for a fresh approach to the womens' basketball philosophy at Hope.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Titan Q on March 21, 2010, 08:33:28 AM
Quote from: md241 on March 21, 2010, 08:00:20 AM
I could understand if this loss in the tournament was a one-time fluke, but this has occurred THREE tournaments in a row where the offense "took a vacation", and that's a pattern to me. This current team just can't seem to perform on the really big stage, at least offensively. Maybe Hope needs to go in favor of a coach who'd install a high-powered offense; these defense-oriented teams don't seem to perform in the big games. For two players to account for 40 of the 59 points is not good. Where was our vaunted bench? Erica Bruinsma might as well have stayed home for all she contributed. I just think it's time for a fresh approach to the womens' basketball philosophy at Hope.

2010 32-2 (16-0)
2009 27-2 (15-1)
2008 30-1 (16-0)
2007 24-4 (13-3)
2006 33-1 (16-0)
2005 23-4 (14-2)
2004 23-4 (12-2)
2003 31-1 (14-0)


Hope needs a new coach?  Seriously??
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 21, 2010, 09:34:00 AM
Quote from: md241 on March 21, 2010, 08:00:20 AM
I could understand if this loss in the tournament was a one-time fluke, but this has occurred THREE tournaments in a row where the offense "took a vacation", and that's a pattern to me. This current team just can't seem to perform on the really big stage, at least offensively. Maybe Hope needs to go in favor of a coach who'd install a high-powered offense; these defense-oriented teams don't seem to perform in the big games. For two players to account for 40 of the 59 points is not good. Where was our vaunted bench? Erica Bruinsma might as well have stayed home for all she contributed. I just think it's time for a fresh approach to the womens' basketball philosophy at Hope.
This post is almost farcical.  It almost certainly came from a Calvin fan who hacked your computer.

Let's parse this post.

-- "THREE tournaments in a row"  Wow! What a senior class of women!
-- "that's a pattern to me"        Well, 2 Elite 8's and a Championship game.
-- "really big stage"        Each loss was to the eventual national champion.
-- "Maybe Hope needs to go in favor of a coach."      Hope fans should be praying that Coach Morehouse is declining job offers for D-2 head job and D1 assistant job offers "right and left".
-- "I just think it's time for a fresh approach to the womens' basketball philosophy at Hope."     Coach Morehouse's leaving would surely give that, and the rest of D-III would be grateful.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeCSO on March 21, 2010, 09:45:07 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuK5iGIyYc8

A great example of the heart at Hope. We are proud of our girls and coaching staff...Thank you for an amazing 2009-2010 season!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hope Dutch on March 21, 2010, 09:56:52 AM
In the previous year losses to Howard Payne and George Fox, I think the cold shooting could be attributed to incredibly intense defense from the opponents.  I don't think that was the case yesterday.  Hope had a number of good looks from the outside that just plain didn't fall.  I don't think it was a poor game plan, just one of those nights.  I agree that the officials let Wash U get away with a little too much in defending Carrie, including having arms literally wrapped around her on multiple occasions.  But we still had opportunities to overcome the officiating and it just didn't happen.

I did read something interesting regarding Jamie McFarlin.  The GR Press said she is a graduate student.  Having a graduate school gives players a opportunity to use a final year of eligibility that will exist at very few D3 schools.  Players at most other D3 schools complete their education and move on to the next phase of life.  With Wash U, they can move on toward a graduate degree and continue participating in D3 undergraduate sports.  Wow, talk about an advantage!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 21, 2010, 10:02:16 AM
that was really nice  news clip   what a great  year   32-2    and what great seniors they were  i think hope will be back next year
Title: You all know what I mean about Coach Morehouse...
Post by: md241 on March 21, 2010, 12:37:05 PM
The facts PROVE he cannot win the big games on the NATIONAL stage. His postseason record in the Elite Eight and Final Four in the last 3 years is 1-3. It's great he gets them there, but that championship in 2006 is 5 years ago.Face it, it's a "what have you done for me lately" society, and he's failed in that. It's like building a beautiful mansion with balsa wood-nice to look at, but really flimsy! The purpose is to WIN the championship, not just get there. 32-1, 32-2 seasons  are great and beating Calvin is awesome, but if you keep losing in the big games, it's like polishing a turd.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hopefan on March 21, 2010, 12:59:17 PM
Hope Dutch.....   Any NCAA athlete has 5 years to complete 4 years of eligibility..... Jaimie McFarlane, just like Sean Wallis on the men's side, missed playing a year of undergrad due to injury, and played their fourth year by staying in school at the graduate level.  A student who misses a year due to injury could also simply extend their undergrad education by holding off on graduation or electing to go to school for a 5th year to get a second undergrad degree.  If there is any advantage at Wash U it is only the availability of many outstanding graduate programs.   As your post suggests, THERE IS NO ADDITIONAL ELIGIBILITY to students at schools with graduate programs.

and to md241, VERY disappointing posts.....
Title: Re: You all know what I mean about Coach Morehouse...
Post by: Hope Dutch on March 21, 2010, 01:17:56 PM
Quote from: md241 on March 21, 2010, 12:37:05 PM
The facts PROVE he cannot win the big games on the NATIONAL stage. His postseason record in the Elite Eight and Final Four in the last 3 years is 1-3. It's great he gets them there, but that championship in 2006 is 5 years ago.Face it, it's a "what have you done for me lately" society, and he's failed in that. It's like building a beautiful mansion with balsa wood-nice to look at, but really flimsy! The purpose is to WIN the championship, not just get there. 32-1, 32-2 seasons  are great and beating Calvin is awesome, but if you keep losing in the big games, it's like polishing a turd.

I am hoping these comments are meant to stir the pot a little as opposed to representing your true opinions.  I can't imagine any human realistically expecting national championships each and every year.  Do you have any concept of what it takes to beat the nations best every time?  It takes a great team and a little luck.  Everything has to go well.  

I am sure you remember Kaitlyn Kopke's ACL injury 2 years ago.  How many teams could overcome losing one of your best defenders / ball handlers and still win even one NCAA game.  And last year Jenny Cowen had an ankle injury that prevented her from playing anywhere close to 100%.  Were these Brian's fault?  I am sure you will find a way to blame him...And this year Liz Ellis has the foot injury.  Although she didn't get anywhere near the recognition she deserved, she has been a huge factor in the team's success.  She has had the play the entire tournament without being able to change directions the way she wants or push off for her shots.  She was still incredible, but would have been even better if healthy.  I am guessing a healthy foot would have helped her knock down some additional shots and come up with a few more steals (assuming she doesn't get another underved foul called).  Have you factored any of these situations into your expectations?

There is no other D3 coach in the country that can match Brian's success, either in the regular season or the tournament.  We are so blessed to have him.  Maybe you could talk Geno Auriemma or Pat Summitt into coming to Hope??  And to tell you the truth, I wouldn't even want them to be a part of the program.  As Philly said in her post game interview, Hope basketball is about a lot more than just a trophy.  Brian has built an incredible tradition of success while also building relationships, values, etc.  As a Hope alum, I can't imagine and couldn't want any more from a program.

Congratulations to all of the Hope players and coaches.  You have all made the Hope nation (except for md241) extremely proud!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 21, 2010, 01:34:43 PM
Wonderful day in Bloomington Saturday......Hope brought an awesome group of fans to cheer on their Dutch.

Probably for the first time this year Hope played a team that could defend as well as they could, and were almost as deep as they were.  Combine that with a tough night shooting and it was mostly an up hill battle all day for Hope.  Sometimes its just not your day.  (Cowen's in and out 3 point shot late was the perfect example of that, that shot was a potential game changer)

Washington had 2 or 3 players that Hope had great difficulty stopping them from getting to the basket, and when Hope did defend well enough to force jump shots, the Bears knocked them down.  I came away very impressed with the poise of both of these teams........Hope fought all day and Washington continued to execute at key moments of the game.



I don't think anyone will ever understand the amount of intense pressure this group of Hope women have faced for the last 3 years.  All anyone has talked about at Hope games, men and women, for the 2 previous years was getting a chance to host and play in the final four.  And this season, despite the added pressure of the possibility of hosting the final four being gone........the expectation was still that anything short of making it to Bloomington would be a disappointment.  Yet they responded in every way possible, made it to Bloomington and gave it their best shot......you simply can't ask for anything more than that.

Hope had well over 1000 in attendance Saturday and I can tell you 99.9% loved every minute of watching this group of young ladies represent themselves and the school most of us love with all the heart and determination they could muster.


Hope has lost 5 women's basketball games in the last 3 seasons, 3 of those came to teams who won the National Champioship.

Brian Morehouse has built Hope into a division III Women's power, one that has earned the respect of many other coaches, players and fans across the country.  At this current place in Hope's athletic history, the Hope women's program has become its shining star.
Title: Re: You all know what I mean about Coach Morehouse...
Post by: almcguirejr on March 21, 2010, 02:07:39 PM
Quote from: md241 on March 21, 2010, 12:37:05 PM
The facts PROVE he cannot win the big games on the NATIONAL stage. His postseason record in the Elite Eight and Final Four in the last 3 years is 1-3. It's great he gets them there, but that championship in 2006 is 5 years ago.Face it, it's a "what have you done for me lately" society, and he's failed in that. It's like building a beautiful mansion with balsa wood-nice to look at, but really flimsy! The purpose is to WIN the championship, not just get there. 32-1, 32-2 seasons  are great and beating Calvin is awesome, but if you keep losing in the big games, it's like polishing a turd.

Tom Izzo has the same problem can't ever win the big game.  He like Morehouse has only one national championship.  He gets to the final four and can't win it regularly.  Maybe Hope and MSU should  be looking for new coaches.
Title: Re: You all know what I mean about Coach Morehouse...
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 21, 2010, 02:41:37 PM
Quote from: md241 on March 21, 2010, 12:37:05 PM
The facts PROVE he cannot win the big games on the NATIONAL stage. His postseason record in the Elite Eight and Final Four in the last 3 years is 1-3.

It's great he gets them there, but that championship in 2006 is 5 years ago.

Face it, it's a "what have you done for me lately" society, and he's failed in that. It's like building a beautiful mansion with balsa wood-nice to look at, but really flimsy! The purpose is to WIN the championship, not just get there. 32-1, 32-2 seasons  are great and beating Calvin is awesome, but if you keep losing in the big games, it's like polishing a t*rd.

His postseason record in the Elite Eight and Final Four in the last 3 years is 1-3.
  Correction.  His post-season record in the last three seasons for the Final Four and Elite 8 games is 2-3.

It's great he gets them there, but that championship in 2006 is 5 years ago.  I'm certain that Wash U Coach Nancy Fahey is glad that you aren't her boss.  She had not won a national championship since the four in a row that she won from 1998-2001.

Face it, it's a "what have you done for me lately" society, and he's failed in that.  In the last five  years, we have had five different champions.  Here are the five year records.  I have not found a better record in the country that Coach Morehouse.  He appears to be the most successful coach in the last 5 years.

Championship Year    Team             5-Year RecordHope's season
2006Hope146-10Champion; Beat DPU in the "16". WashU in the "8"
2007DePauw136-19DPU beat Pool C Calvin in the Elite 8. Pool A Hope lost to Denison in the first round.
2008HPU130-19Lost at HPU in the Elite 8
2009George Fox122-21Lost at Thomas More in the Elite 8
2010Wash U133-21Lost in the Championship Game
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hwbb on March 21, 2010, 04:45:36 PM
In the light of a new day, seven impressions from the Final Four:

1. I think every school uniquely appreciates their players, but if there are two classier people than Hope outgoing seniors Jenny Cowen and Philly Greene, we'd all be better people if we could meet them.  Those two deserve our highest commendation.
2. I think many, not all, schools also appreciate their head coach. We have at Hope this rare combination of great game-planner, teacher, and role model all wrapped up in Brian Morehouse. We are privileged.
3. I think it's harder to win a championship playing the second Friday semifinal game than the first, given the early Saturday start time. Not impossible—goodness no. But harder, one extra hurdle, both from the standpoint of rest and the good look the first-game winning coach gets of the second-game teams.
4. I think there's a benefit to the team that's had at least one of the officials ref at least one of their games already that season. Not because officials are biased—goodness no. But because great coaches (like Nancy Fahey) can game plan around the observed tendencies of the officials—and I suspect she did.
5. I think a really good pep band adds appreciably to the atmosphere of the game. IWU has a great band, and I wish Hope would get a great band for the DeVos.
6. I think it's amazing a thousand people came to support Hope in Bloomington. And I'd like to see more Hope students (yes, Dew Crew—you!) also support the team.
7. I think in the end you gotta make shots to win games.
Title: Re: You all know what I mean about Coach Morehouse...
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 21, 2010, 05:03:08 PM
Quote from: md241 on March 21, 2010, 12:37:05 PM
The facts PROVE he cannot win the big games on the NATIONAL stage. His postseason record in the Elite Eight and Final Four in the last 3 years is 1-3. It's great he gets them there, but that championship in 2006 is 5 years ago.Face it, it's a "what have you done for me lately" society, and he's failed in that. It's like building a beautiful mansion with balsa wood-nice to look at, but really flimsy! The purpose is to WIN the championship, not just get there. 32-1, 32-2 seasons  are great and beating Calvin is awesome, but if you keep losing in the big games, it's like polishing a turd.

I always love a good debate and welcome everyone to post their toughts, but in your case...


You are a troll - GO AWAY AND DO NOT COME BACK!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 21, 2010, 05:06:47 PM
Quote from: Hwbb on March 21, 2010, 04:45:36 PM
In the light of a new day, seven impressions from the Final Four:

1. I think every school uniquely appreciates their players, but if there are two classier people than Hope outgoing seniors Jenny Cowen and Philly Greene, we’d all be better people if we could meet them.  Those two deserve our highest commendation.
2. I think many, not all, schools also appreciate their head coach. We have at Hope this rare combination of great game-planner, teacher, and role model all wrapped up in Brian Morehouse. We are privileged.
3. I think it’s harder to win a championship playing the second Friday semifinal game than the first, given the early Saturday start time. Not impossible—goodness no. But harder, one extra hurdle, both from the standpoint of rest and the good look the first-game winning coach gets of the second-game teams.
4. I think there’s a benefit to the team that’s had at least one of the officials ref at least one of their games already that season. Not because officials are biased—goodness no. But because great coaches (like Nancy Fahey) can game plan around the observed tendencies of the officials—and I suspect she did.
5. I think a really good pep band adds appreciably to the atmosphere of the game. IWU has a great band, and I wish Hope would get a great band for the DeVos.
6. I think it’s amazing a thousand people came to support Hope in Bloomington. And I’d like to see more Hope students (yes, Dew Crew—you!) also support the team.
7. I think in the end you gotta make shots to win games.



Completely agree with point 3.  Nearly every Hope miss yesterday was short.  That typically happens when you "have no legs".  Not only did Hope have the second game on Friday, it was later than expected, with the first game going into OT, and then the extra delay while the lights went out.  WashU had a 3 more hours rest between games, which is significant.  Not blaming the loss on it, just stating the facts.

If your point 4 is true, that would violate NCAA rules - since I believe the officials must have not officiated any game with the competing teams this year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hwbb on March 21, 2010, 05:25:49 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 21, 2010, 05:06:47 PM
Quote from: Hwbb on March 21, 2010, 04:45:36 PM
4. I think there's a benefit to the team that's had at least one of the officials ref at least one of their games already that season. Not because officials are biased—goodness no. But because great coaches (like Nancy Fahey) can game plan around the observed tendencies of the officials—and I suspect she did.




If your point 4 is true, that would violate NCAA rules - since I believe the officials must have not officiated any game with the competing teams this year.

FDF, I don't have a clue if that's the rule or not. But a quick check of box scores shows a Leslie Boucher officiated the WashU-Brandeis game on February 12 and a Leslie Boucher officiated yesterday. So whether it's against the rules or not, it did happen.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 21, 2010, 06:19:45 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 21, 2010, 05:06:47 PM
Quote from: Hwbb on March 21, 2010, 04:45:36 PM
4. I think there's a benefit to the team that's had at least one of the officials ref at least one of their games already that season. Not because officials are biased—goodness no. But because great coaches (like Nancy Fahey) can game plan around the observed tendencies of the officials—and I suspect she did.

Completely agree with point 3.  Nearly every Hope miss yesterday was short.  That typically happens when you "have no legs".  Not only did Hope have the second game on Friday, it was later than expected, with the first game going into OT, and then the extra delay while the lights went out.  WashU had a 3 more hours rest between games, which is significant.  Not blaming the loss on it, just stating the facts.

I wondered the same Friday night, given the combination of the time zone change, the delayed game start because of the OT and all the official time outs, and then the 19 minute light failure.  It meant the second game ended late, making sleep, soon after, more difficult for some fans if not for players!

If FDF and Hwbb are right about this, then Rochester should also have shown the effect.  And they sure seemed to.  They shot noticeably worse on Saturday--18 percent for the game.  They weren't close to the same team that Hope faced.  In hindsight, I wish Hope could have faced Wash U. the first night . . . but such was the luck of the time draw.  
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 21, 2010, 06:33:04 PM
Most of Hope's misses came up short, thats a sure sign of tired legs.  But even still I think Hope had their chances and its not as if Hope has never played late on Friday and come back for a mid-day game the next day before.


I'd rather see both the men's and women's title game contested in the evening, but television dictates the starting times.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dothedew on March 21, 2010, 07:13:24 PM
1. I am glad that a DIII bball game was shown live on TV around the country. Even if it had to be at 3pm, a lot of my friends and family were able to check in and watch the game.
2. I had a great time in bloomington. I love that beer nuts are what paid for the arena. Very cool, although, I could have used a little more leg room.
3. I am choosing to ignore the jacka** making those posts earlier. I'm not sure you are a Hope fan...and I highly doubt you are, but if I know you, send me a message and perhaps you can better explain yourself, b/c right now you are just coming across as ignorant.
4. (Should have been 1)...congrats to coach MO and an amazing Hope program. We are all very lucky to enjoy this AMAZING run over the last 14 years.
5. I don't blame refs. They are doing the best they can in a thankless job....but for a championship game, the NCAA gave us 3 that were not up to the task. I don't know if this is a group, or 3 singles they put together, but they failed on may levels. I don't get as upset over missed calls and such...those happen. But the HORRIBLE HORRIBLE HORRIBLE decison to reset the shot clock as the end of 1st half is WRONG. tipped pass. timout Wash U. Should have been 6 seconds on the shot clock and 32 or so on the game clock....which is what both teams planned for during timeout and TV timeout...then 15 seconds before they put the ball in, one ref went over and had the shot clock reset. COACH MO LOST HIS MIND.....as did myself, fans....you can't do that! What are the rules for resetting a clock? Both teams planned for 6 left on shot clock during timeout and they changed it? Mo just wanted the refs to get together and talk about it...or explain to him the decision. BAD BAD BAD. That play did NOT decide the game, but just an example of refs a bit out of their league....and this is a CHAMPIONSHIP GAME!
6. Agian, CONGRATS TO WASH U ON A CHAMPIONSHIP. Congrats to hope on an amazing run....you gave us all a great treat :) HOPEfully we can all be back there next year to enjoy another great run by the FLYING DUTCH!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hope Dutch on March 21, 2010, 08:44:01 PM
Had so much fun watching this year...can't wait for it to start all over again in about 8 months...

Does anyone know about MIAA recruits for next year?  Some incredible contributions this season from the likes of Verkaik, Ellis, Kussmaul, others?  Any insights into what we can expect for next year?  Are there any significant commitments?
Title: I can perfectly predict what will happen...
Post by: md241 on March 21, 2010, 10:04:04 PM
...next season with the Flying Dutch-they'll beat Calvin at least once, win 28 or 29 regular season games, the fans will drink the kool-aid, and they'll lose in the Elite 8 or Final Four; lather, rinse repeat for the 2011-2012 season!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on March 21, 2010, 10:12:49 PM
QuoteIf FDF and Hwbb are right about this, then Rochester should also have shown the effect.  And they sure seemed to.  They shot noticeably worse on Saturday--18 percent for the game.  They weren't close to the same team that Hope faced.

The first five words that Rochester Coach Scheible said in the postgame press conference were, "We were just too tired..."

As bad as it was, it could've been worse.  The women and men take turns starting their title games early and it was the men's turn this year.  That forces the consolation game (which the men no longer have) even earlier.  I really felt for Rochester.

I like Sac's idea of startig the games later in the day.  But as he points out, I don't think that's an option given the television coverage.
Title: Re: I can perfectly predict what will happen...
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 21, 2010, 10:23:59 PM
Quote from: md241 on March 21, 2010, 10:04:04 PM
...next season with the Flying Dutch-they'll beat Calvin at least once, win 28 or 29 regular season games, the fans will drink the kool-aid, and they'll lose in the Elite 8 or Final Four; lather, rinse repeat for the 2011-2012 season!
Hope has averaged 29-2 over the last 5 seasons.

I think that you have to be one of the most ungrateful fans that has ever posted on these boards!

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on March 21, 2010, 10:30:42 PM
1-    To everyone who has countered md241's escape from reality in the past few days, kudos and a very big "thank you!"    Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but in the face of overwhelming evidence debunking that opinion, even Perry Mason would seek a plea bargain.  Simple attendance at a game does not automatically signify intimate knowledge of the game.  Since my wife is a musician, I go to a lot of concerts and enjoy listening to classical music.  But that doesn't make me a musician or knowledgeable as to the intricacies of what I hear.  Therefore, I would never have told Leonard Bernstein that he should play more of the composer Antonio Salierei  's work instead of that hack Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart. 

2-   As to the thought of a different women's head basketball coach???   I hope Hope realizes what it has in Brian Morehouse and makes it so attractive for him that he never leaves.  IMO, as long as Coach Mo remains at Hope, Hope will have a women's program that is the envy of every DIII institution in the country.  My recurring nightmare is that when GVW calls it a day, the job IS offered to Mo !!  Not because he would not continue the FINE men's basketball tradition, but because the women's program would run the risk of no longer being the EXCELLENT+  program it is right now.
Title: Re: I can perfectly predict what will happen...
Post by: tniem on March 21, 2010, 11:55:57 PM
Quote from: md241 on March 21, 2010, 10:04:04 PM
...next season with the Flying Dutch-they'll beat Calvin at least once, win 28 or 29 regular season games, the fans will drink the kool-aid, and they'll lose in the Elite 8 or Final Four; lather, rinse repeat for the 2011-2012 season!

Winning a championship takes some luck.  Take D1 basketball, Kansas was potentially the best team in the country this year.  Either way, what is not debatable is that they are a better team than Northern Iowa.  They play ten times, Kansas wins nine.  But one Saturday in March, their shots didn't fall, Northern Iowa shoots lights out and the Jayhawks didn't get a break or two to go their way.  Should you fire Self over it?  It's a what have you done for me lately world.

On the women's side, Connecticut is by far the best team.  Potentially they are the greatest team ever.  Yet, they  have to survive three weeks, pray for no injuries, and play amazing defense so no one goes on fire and hits every shot she takes.  They're great and I would put better than even money on them.  But that is still a tough slog.  Will you fire Auriemma if they don't bring home a second undefeated season?  What he would have done lately is a loss in March/April.

So, if the deal you put at the top is offered, sign me up.  We could only be so lucky as a school to have that record.  Last night, from what I heard on the radio and what folks here have written, there was a shot halfway down to tie it.  Perhaps that goes through and Hope cuts down the nets.  The luck wasn't there.  You give me the opportunity to watch rinse lather repeat and Hope likely wins one out of five (the odds favor it).  And even if they never do that - there is tons of victories and Final Fours.  Most schools would take it.  You know fans of the men's team would take it in a second.  What Coach Mo has done lately, is take a team to the Final Four.  That's a tremendous accomplishment, especially with the number of Division III schools.  If that's drinking the kool-aid, send me some more.   


To everyone else, sorry to feed the troll.  Couldn't help it.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on March 21, 2010, 11:59:30 PM
Md241 says that Morehouse should be replaced because he can't win the big games? If that were true the Washington U's coach Nancy Fahey should of been fired long ago. After all it was nine years between her championship teams. And she DID lose two championship games in that time. She obviously wasn't good enough either.

Coach Mo should stay. He will get us more championships. This isn't D1, it's D3. There is more to life than winning.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on March 22, 2010, 12:01:59 AM
I'm not happy about the two-minute T.V. timeouts or the reffing in the championship game. I believe they easily made a five point difference. That being said, Washington U. made the shots when they needed them and we couldn't quite keep up. So I say congratulations to Washington U., Good luck, and we'll see you in Bloomington next year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 22, 2010, 06:40:24 AM
at least there were a good ban to listen to friday and sat i dont why hope can not get a good band
Title: Blaming the refs?!?
Post by: md241 on March 22, 2010, 06:48:45 AM
As far as I know, they don't coach the game, take the shots, and  play defense., right?
Title: Re: Blaming the refs?!?
Post by: Hwbb on March 22, 2010, 08:03:37 AM
Quote from: md241 on March 22, 2010, 06:48:45 AM
As far as I know, they don't coach the game, take the shots, and  play defense., right?

Right. Interesting that you would initiate the phrase "blaming the refs," because I've seen no one else on this board, post-game, lay responsibility for the outcome of the game on the officials. Some have pointed out a few close, disputed, or questionable calls, in the midst of many other broader observations of the actions of the 13 persons on the floor at any given time. That's simply good game analysis.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on March 22, 2010, 09:10:49 AM
Six posts and -9 karma.  Is that a new world's record?
Title: How many Hope basketball fans does it take ...
Post by: md241 on March 22, 2010, 09:23:18 AM
...to change a light bulb? None, because as far as they're all concerned, it's working just fine!
Title: What's the difference between Coach Morehouse...
Post by: md241 on March 22, 2010, 09:28:54 AM
...and a dead man?
  he's won 2 more tournament games over 5 years than the dead man!
Title: Why did the Hope basketball team cross the road...
Post by: md241 on March 22, 2010, 09:39:06 AM
Actually they didn't cross the road-the building marquee read "Hope Women in tourney", so they said "why bother" and turned around!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on March 22, 2010, 10:08:26 AM
Quote from: Hope Dutch on March 21, 2010, 09:56:52 AM
I did read something interesting regarding Jamie McFarlin.  The GR Press said she is a graduate student.  Having a graduate school gives players a opportunity to use a final year of eligibility that will exist at very few D3 schools.  Players at most other D3 schools complete their education and move on to the next phase of life.  With Wash U, they can move on toward a graduate degree and continue participating in D3 undergraduate sports.  Wow, talk about an advantage!

A few years ago, Hope had a fifth year senior on the men's side, PG Greg Immink, for medical reasons.  Obviously a tough decision for him to stick around when he could have moved on.  May have been easier if he could have started working on a Master's degree, which Hope does not offer.  But lots of D3 schools do - there are a number of state institutions at the D3 level.  Comparative advantage?  Perhaps, but no more than simply WashU being a great school.  In the end, Jamie McFarin likely made a very difficult personal decision to continue playing.  Good for her and the Bears.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 22, 2010, 10:11:10 AM
Quote from: tniem on March 22, 2010, 10:08:26 AM
Quote from: Hope Dutch on March 21, 2010, 09:56:52 AM
I did read something interesting regarding Jamie McFarlin.  The GR Press said she is a graduate student.  Having a graduate school gives players a opportunity to use a final year of eligibility that will exist at very few D3 schools.  Players at most other D3 schools complete their education and move on to the next phase of life.  With Wash U, they can move on toward a graduate degree and continue participating in D3 undergraduate sports.  Wow, talk about an advantage!

A few years ago, Hope had a fifth year senior on the men's side, PG Greg Immink, for medical reasons.  Obviously a tough decision for him to stick around when he could have moved on.  May have been easier if he could have started working on a Master's degree, which Hope does not offer.  But lots of D3 schools do - there are a number of state institutions at the D3 level.  Comparative advantage?  Perhaps, but no more than simply WashU being a great school.  In the end, Jamie McFarin likely made a very difficult personal decision to continue playing.  Good for her and the Bears.

Same situation with Julie Henderson on the women's side.  Injury early in her freshman year (might have been sophomore year) lead to a medical redshirt and a fifth year.
Title: Re: Blaming the refs?!?
Post by: Ethelred the Unready on March 22, 2010, 10:23:37 AM
Quote from: md241 on March 22, 2010, 06:48:45 AM
As far as I know, they don't coach the game, take the shots, and  play defense., right?

You don't either..right?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 22, 2010, 02:43:36 PM
Being a bit of a stats fanatic and also appreciating the basketball careers of two wonderful Hope students, Jenny Cowen and Philana Greene, let me share the following. 

First, despite the fact that I'm about to expound on their statistical contributions to the Hope basketball team, I have to say that watching the leadership and class with which they both played the game was remarkable.  Philana and Jenny end their careers leaving many marks on the Hope basketball records. 

In their 4 years on the Hope Varsity:

-   The teams overall record was 114 – 9, 0.927
-   The teams MIAA regular season record was  60 – 4,  0.938
-   The teams  MIAA tournament record was 12 – 0,  1.000
-   The team played in the NCAA tournament all four years with a record of 11 – 4, 0.733 with 3 of those loses coming to the national champion

Jenny Cowen concludes her career in the top 10 of 4 career categories:

-   3pt FG Made – 144 – 4th
-   3pt FG Attempted – 441 - 4th
-   FT percentage – 0.802 - 4th
-   Games played – 123 - 1st

Philana Greene concludes her career in the top 10 of 13 career categories:

-   Scoring – 1059 – 9th
-   FG made – 412 – 9th
-   FT made – 227 – 7th
-   FT attempted – 366 – 6th
-   Rebounds – 613 – 9th
-   Assists – 330 – 4th
-   Assists/game – 2.7 – 6th
-   Blocks – 86 – 7th
-   Blocks/game – 0.7 – 7th
-   Steals – 322 – 1st
-   Steals/game – 2.6 – 1st
-   Games played – 123 – 1st
-   Games started – 106 – 5th
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on March 22, 2010, 04:41:44 PM
Flying Dutch Fan.....your stats don't lie and as you mention there is even more to the story.

Jenny and Philly are great examples of true student athletes.  Both are excellant sudents while at the same time putting in many long hours training, practicing and competing at a high level.  Only positive things can be said about the manner in which they have represented the school, their team and families.

Philly has had the confidence and respect of her team mates every since her freshman year.  Her gutsy performance on Saturday demonstrates that confidence was not misplaced.

Jenny has spent most of the basketball season student teaching all day, heading immediately to practice, then putting in extra time on her own to compensate for lost practice time and then preparing lesson plans.  Unless you are close to the situation, very few fans can fully appreciate that several recent Dutch players have graduated in four years, with their student teaching completed in multiple teaching certifications.  It is not uncommon for non-atheletes to now spend a full five years to complete a single teaching certification.

D3 players do not get any special financial aid or assistance with classwork.  In spite of this, the Dutch team maintains a very high grade point average even though many of the players have extremely challenging majors.

Perhaps many of us are spoiled by their success and lose site of the hard work and stress these young women experience to provide us with some great entertainment.   The negative comments made about specific players over the past couple of days are way out of bounds given the context of D3 sports and the character of the individuals.

A lot has been noted about Coach Morehouse's W-L record.  What may be a harder achievement is the cohesion he has been able to maintain within a group of hightly competitive athelets that compete intensely for playing time.  It is surprising, at least to me, how close the girls competing for the same role often become.

I had a conversation with a former player of recent vintage after the game on Saturday and her first concern was the disappointment that the seniors were going through.  She wanted nothing more than to see her friends experience the joy of victory that she had felt four years ago. 

I am disappointed about the outcome of Saturday's game.  It was exciting but, for a short time, heart breaking.  But I am proud of the team on and off the court





Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 23, 2010, 08:21:12 AM
DIII News has anounced their AA team.  Carrie Snikkers 1st team, Carissa Verkaik 4th team.  They also have an all freshman team, which includes Verkaik and Liz Ellis.

http://www.smallcollegehoops.com/Home_files/WD3NAATeam10.pdf
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 23, 2010, 03:36:56 PM
Liz Ellis should have a chance to be an all-american before she's done at Hope........I was very impressed with her play this year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 29, 2010, 05:02:28 PM
The awards just keep coming in for Hope's Carrie Snikkers. Now she's up for D3 Athlete of the Year.

http://www.mlive.com/smallcolleges/grandrapids/index.ssf/2010/03/hopes_carrie_snikkers_nominate.html

The nomination alone comes with a $1000.00 cash award to the school.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 29, 2010, 05:25:49 PM
I'm still disappointed that UWSP prevented (by ONE lousy stinkin' point! :() a showdown between Snikkers and IWU's Christina Solari.  Next year's battles between Snikkers and Verkaik should be epic!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 30, 2010, 11:33:57 PM
Word is Hope has game with Washington Univ. next season at the Ohio Wesleyan tournament.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 31, 2010, 12:34:47 AM
Guess it would be a lot to ask for OWU to play either of those teams in the first round. :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 31, 2010, 10:41:37 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 31, 2010, 12:34:47 AM
Guess it would be a lot to ask for OWU to play either of those teams in the first round. :)

Its called a "classic" but the same weekend last year looks like a tournament format.  Until the actual schedule comes out, hard to tell what it is.

Last year OWU invited Franklin, Olivet and Carnegie-Mellon
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hoopdreams on March 31, 2010, 05:45:41 PM
first time poster on this board and I'm not sure if its been discussed or even released to public but there are multiple girls available as transfers from GVSU, including Emma Veach who would look good in orange and blue.  Probably an issue with Mo's rotations/minutes played though with them.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 31, 2010, 06:37:55 PM
Quote from: hoopdreams on March 31, 2010, 05:45:41 PM
first time poster on this board and I'm not sure if its been discussed or even released to public but there are multiple girls available as transfers from GVSU, including Emma Veach who would look good in orange and blue.  Probably an issue with Mo's rotations/minutes played though with them.

Remember, you have to make a right turn when leaving the front door of the Allendale campus. That means you're heading east down M-45.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on April 01, 2010, 08:53:03 AM
Quote from: oldknight on March 31, 2010, 06:37:55 PM
Quote from: hoopdreams on March 31, 2010, 05:45:41 PM
first time poster on this board and I'm not sure if its been discussed or even released to public but there are multiple girls available as transfers from GVSU, including Emma Veach who would look good in orange and blue.  Probably an issue with Mo's rotations/minutes played though with them.

Remember, you have to make a right turn when leaving the front door of the Allendale campus. That means you're heading east down M-45.

Yeah but the Michigan DOT is great at providing mutliple oportunities to u-turn!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on April 01, 2010, 04:28:26 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on April 01, 2010, 08:53:03 AM
Quote from: oldknight on March 31, 2010, 06:37:55 PM
Quote from: hoopdreams on March 31, 2010, 05:45:41 PM
first time poster on this board and I'm not sure if its been discussed or even released to public but there are multiple girls available as transfers from GVSU, including Emma Veach who would look good in orange and blue.  Probably an issue with Mo's rotations/minutes played though with them.

Remember, you have to make a right turn when leaving the front door of the Allendale campus. That means you're heading east down M-45.

Yeah but the Michigan DOT is great at providing mutliple oportunities to u-turn!


"Recalculating!"   ;D



Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on April 15, 2010, 09:46:59 AM
Calvin's 2010-11 schedule:

http://www.calvin.edu/sports/womens/basketball/schedule.htm
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on April 16, 2010, 12:27:45 PM
The Olivet women have a new coach

http://www.olivetcollege.edu/sports_news/news.php?id=2343
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on April 22, 2010, 11:34:55 PM
Hope schedule released but not posted online yet. Key games and dates:
  Hope Classic: Baldwin-Wallace vs Hope Sat, Nov 20
      Other teams: Alma & Manchester, Ind.
  Another Hope Classic: Wittenberg vs Hope Sat Dec 18
      Other teams; Kalamazoo & Concordia, IL
  @ Ohio Wesleyan Tournament: Washington, MO vs Hope Wed Dec 29
       Thurs Dec 30 Hope vs Bluffton, OH or Ohio Wesleyan
  Tue Jan 18 @ Calvin
  Sat Feb 5 Calvin
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on April 23, 2010, 03:20:25 PM
The rest of the schedule is in the Sentinel.

Flying Dutch's 2010-11 Schedule
Nov.
16 — Rochester
19 — Hope Classic, vs. Manchester (Ind.)
20 — Hope Classic, vs. Baldwin-Wallace (Ohio)
23 — at Defiance (Ohio)
Dec.
1 — at North Park (Ill.)
4 — at Alma
8 — Kalamazoo
17 — Hope Classic, vs. Concordia (Ill.)
18 — Hope Classic, vs. Wittenberg (Ohio)
29 — at Ohio Wesleyan Tournament, vs. Washington University in St. Louis
30 — at Ohio Wesleyan Tournament, vs. Bluffton (Ohio) or Ohio Wesleyan
Jan.
5 — Saint Mary's (Ind.)
8 — Adrian
12 — at Trine (Ind.)
15 — Olivet
18 — at Calvin
20 — at Albion
22 — Alma
26 — at Kalamazoo
Feb.
2 — at Saint Mary's
5 — Calvin
9 — at Adrian
12 — Trine
16 — at Olivet
19 — Albion
22-26 — MIAA Tournament
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on April 24, 2010, 05:47:38 PM
Looks like a very aggressive schedule for Hope.  Notice Manchester has Calvin on the 16th. of Nov., and Hope 3 days later. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on April 25, 2010, 12:14:41 AM
Manchester 6-20
B-W 19-8
Defiance 17-10
North Park 5-20
Concordia 13-12
Wittenberg 19-8
Washington 29-2
Ohio Wes 20-7
or
Bluffton 8-16

I don't really know if that qualifies as 'agressive', all it really has is a number of winnable "in-region" games and a rematch with what should be a very good Wash U team.  All but WashU should be in-region.

I don't know what Witt, BW, OWU or Defiance has returning but there's no guaruntee they'll be better.

WashU was the only team on the list that made the NCAA tournament this past season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hoopdreams on April 26, 2010, 10:08:14 AM
heard that of all the GVSU defections, 1 will end up at Hope, Maddie Burnett, a Northview HS (grand rapids) grad.  Emma Veach is going to Hillsdale and play against her former squad.  Any word on where her brother is going to school and whether he is playing hoops or polo?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on April 26, 2010, 11:06:26 AM
http://www.gvsulakers.com/sports/w-baskbl/mtt/burnett_maddie00.html
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on April 26, 2010, 04:29:18 PM
When I saw Rochester I was thinking NY, and that would make the schedule tougher.  Still some very nice winning programs in the mix. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on May 20, 2010, 03:01:30 PM
A couple Lansing area women headed to the MIAA, I don't know anything about them.

Holly Kramer, Pewamo-Westphalia to Kalamazoo

Kelsey Effner, Dansville to Albion
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on May 27, 2010, 07:54:47 PM
Flying Dutch Top DIII In Women's
Basketball Attendance

Make it three-for-three for Hope fan attendance at the college's DeVos Fieldhouse.
The NCAA has announced that Hope led all Division III women's basketball programs in average home attendance during the 2009-10 season.
Hope also topped Division III during 2009-10 in attendance at its home volleyball (992 average) and men's basketball (2,826 average) contests. No Division III member has ever accomplished this fete.
It marks the second straight year that Hope has been the leader in women's basketball attendance. This past season the team averaged 1,138 fans over 20 home dates.
It is the third time since moving to DeVos Fieldhouse that Hope has been the DIII leader in women's basketball attendance. In 2005-06, the first year at DeVos, the team averaged 1,329 fans per game. In 2008-09 the team averaged 1,269.
The Flying Dutch, who posted an overall 32-2 record, were 20-0 on their home court. Games against rival Calvin attracted the largest crowds, 3,177 on January 19 and 2,565 on February 27.
Hope five-season record at DeVos Fieldhouse in 80-1. In 14 seasons under coach Morehouse, the Flying Dutch are 193-20 (.906) on their home floor.
The Flying Dutch will enter the 2009-10 season with a home floor winning streak of 61 in-a-row. The season will begin non Nov. 16 with a home game against Rochester.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: fannie on June 01, 2010, 10:17:24 PM
Lots of chatter on the guys board about recruits and of course new Hope coach.....anybody know about the incoming freshman for the girls programs?  Or the exiting of any current players? 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Norm Zylstra on June 09, 2010, 12:52:10 PM
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.calvin.edu%2Fsports%2FSummerSlam%2FCalv%2520Col%2520Summer%2520Slam%25202010.jpg&hash=6e1dd3708f6942a2b41e586bc5b88928a04ed27b)
The Calvin Summer Slam (http://www.calvin.edu/sports/summerslam) is ready to roll this week.

The Summer Slam (http://www.calvin.edu/sports/summerslam) is a high school basketball tournament in the Spoelhof Fieldhouse Complex. The women's tournament features twelve teams from Michigan, Illinois and Iowa and will be held from June 10 (first game at 6 p.m.) to June 12 (championship game is at 12 noon).  The men's tournament consists of 16 teams from the same states plus Massachusetts and will be held from July 1 (first game at 7 p.m.) to July 3 (championship game is at 2:45 p.m.).

For more information on the teams and the schedule, see Calvin College Summer Slam (http://www.calvin.edu/sports/summerslam).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on June 25, 2010, 12:42:00 AM
Here's four that were on the Champions of Character All-Star rosters, I don't know anything about them.

HOPE
Brittany Berry 5-8 GR Catholic Central  (program says Bethany but I think its Brittany)
Rachel Kuiper 6-0 Byron Center   (will focus on volleyball at Hope)

CALVIN
Caitlyn Patterson 5-10 Rockford
Kelli Koets 5-10 Calvin Christian


...and Philana Greene hit the game winner in the college all-star game.

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/sports/sports_hope/x383301926/Hope-s-Philana-Greene-hits-winner-in-all-star-basketball-game

-----------------------------


Also the last half of this article mentions Berry and Kuiper

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/sports/sports_hope/x370832768/Hope-recruit-James-Slagter-shines-in-All-Star-basketball-game
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on June 25, 2010, 05:33:00 PM
* * *  NEWS * * *

HOPE COLLEGE SELECTED TO  HOST NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS IN WOMEN'S BASKETBALL AND VOLLEYBALL


Hope College has been selected to host national championship tournaments in two sports by the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA). The NCAA announced today that Hope will host the 2012 and 2013 Division III volleyball and women's basketball finals at DeVos Fieldhouse.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on June 25, 2010, 05:37:21 PM
Quote from: gohope on June 25, 2010, 05:33:00 PM
* * *  NEWS * * *

HOPE COLLEGE SELECTED TO  HOST NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS IN WOMEN'S BASKETBALL AND VOLLEYBALL


Hope College has been selected to host national championship tournaments in two sports by the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA). The NCAA announced today that Hope will host the 2012 and 2013 Division III volleyball and women's basketball finals at DeVos Fieldhouse.

...(link to the press release:)

http://www.hope.edu/pr/pressreleases/content/view/full/27477

This makes me happy.   ;D

I see that the ACHA DIII hockey finals will also be in Holland next March, at The Edge ice arena, home ice of the Hope club team.   I may have to take some time off in March just to keep up with it all.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on June 25, 2010, 09:11:07 PM
Quote from: gohope on June 25, 2010, 05:33:00 PM
* * *  NEWS * * *

HOPE COLLEGE SELECTED TO  HOST NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS IN WOMEN'S BASKETBALL AND VOLLEYBALL


Hope College has been selected to host national championship tournaments in two sports by the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA). The NCAA announced today that Hope will host the 2012 and 2013 Division III volleyball and women's basketball finals at DeVos Fieldhouse.

Excellent!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on June 25, 2010, 10:52:09 PM
Oooh, that's very interesting. Glad the NCAA is moving back to a place that's had it before.

There's talk about a combined men's and women's basketball final. 2012 and 2013 have not been awarded yet. I wonder if they might put MBB at Calvin.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on June 26, 2010, 10:11:29 AM
And... more proud peacock feathers for the MIAA:


http://www.mlive.com/sports/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2010/06/ncaa_awards_2013_division_iii.html
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on June 29, 2010, 12:48:12 PM
Congrats to Hope on geting the NCAA back. 
Young Ms. Berry is a very talented athlete, and just doesn't quit.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sflzman on August 25, 2010, 10:38:50 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on June 25, 2010, 10:52:09 PM
Oooh, that's very interesting. Glad the NCAA is moving back to a place that's had it before.

There's talk about a combined men's and women's basketball final. 2012 and 2013 have not been awarded yet. I wonder if they might put MBB at Calvin.

Three MIAA schools have legit chances at hosting NCAA Finals now. Check out Alma's new arena. http://www.alma.edu/athletics/hogan_renovation/live_view
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on October 09, 2010, 11:48:10 AM
Huge pre-season honors were just announced. This reflects well on the women involved, their schools, and the MIAA. These two ladies competed against one another in high school, in the same conference, and even grew up very close to one another for a time--only about 5 miles away--and they now are on the All-American team together. Amazing.

http://www.mlive.com/smallcolleges/grandrapids/index.ssf/2010/10/hopes_carrie_snikkers_calvins.html
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on October 11, 2010, 02:54:26 PM
Yes, indeed a nice honor for these quality young ladies.  
However, thorns go to the writer (Kaminski) for stating CV "starred" at GRCH when in fact she played at Holland Christian. :)

I know, I know those "Christians" are all alike. ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on October 19, 2010, 09:00:24 AM
Nice article in the Sentinel with Q&A with Coach Morehouse:

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/sports/x1389367096/Hope-womens-basketball-eyes-return-to-national-title-game
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on October 19, 2010, 10:24:17 AM
Mlive also has an article done by Steve Kaminski.

http://www.mlive.com/smallcolleges/grandrapids/index.ssf/2010/10/hope_college_womens_basketball.html

Based on the photos it would appear that Hope has added new lighting to DeVos Fieldhouse.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on October 19, 2010, 10:48:08 AM
Practice in 3D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on October 19, 2010, 10:53:44 AM
In today's version of "Why I love the internet"

Those are apparently dribbling glasses, or some other version...

http://www.jumpusa.com/dspecs.htm
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on October 19, 2010, 10:19:10 PM
Quote from: sac on October 19, 2010, 10:53:44 AM
In today's version of "Why I love the internet"

Those are apparently dribbling glasses, or some other version...

http://www.jumpusa.com/dspecs.htm

Vis a vis the "Dribble Specs,"  wearing such a type of device in practice is not new. I remember a newspaper article(1) from the late 195o's about "Chet the Jet" Forte, Jr.,  whose coach made him wear classes with the bottom half of the lenses taped so that he would learn to dribble without looking at the ball.  It apparently was successful, for Forte, at 5 feet 7 inches and 145 pounds, was an All-American at Columbia University. In the 1956-57 season, he led the nation in scoring with a 28.9 average, was named first-team All-American as a point guard, and beat out the legendary Wilt Chamberlain for player of the year.  Forte was better known as the first director of Monday Night Football...and for a gambling addiction which led to his departure from ABC in the mid-1980s and an indictment for mail fraud and tax evasion.

Sorry for the history lesson, but those glasses set me off!

(1) Precise facts on the article have fallen victim to senior-moment-prone CRS, and cannot be retrieved from my memory bank.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on October 21, 2010, 09:19:27 PM
Hope's women's roster is up.

http://www.hope.edu/pr/athletics/wbb/wbbrost.html

Losses: Greene & Cowen to graduation; Nienhuis & Phillips - ??
Additions: Berry, Burnett & Overway - Freshman
Unlike the past several seasons, there are only 15 varsity players listed.
No junior varsity roster has been posted.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ziggy on October 27, 2010, 01:23:40 PM
Calvin's roster is up
http://www.calvin.edu/sports/womens/basketball/roster.htm
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on October 28, 2010, 10:53:29 AM
Calvin's varsity roster has six new players:

Caitlyn Patterson, Ashley Tiefenthal, Kirstin Tripp -- freshmen
Michaelia Breuker -- sophomore from JV last year
Logan Marsh, Heather DeKleine -- sophomore and junior, not previously on varsity or JV

Anyone know anything about these players?

Calvin has only four forwards on the roster (and one guard/forward co-listed with JV), all freshmen and sophomores. Verkaik will obviously be a key player, and Wolffis and Hilbrands were in the rotation last year. Still, might the knights be a bit young and thin in the frontcourt?

There are only two seniors on the roster, neither in the top 10 in terms of minutes played last year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on October 28, 2010, 12:21:42 PM
Well if my google search hit the bullseye. 

Marsh is a transfer from Aquinas, softball came up before basketball.

DeKleine is a transfer from Gordan.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on October 28, 2010, 03:19:58 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on October 28, 2010, 10:53:29 AM
Calvin's varsity roster has six new players:

Caitlyn Patterson, Ashley Tiefenthal, Kirstin Tripp -- freshmen
Michaelia Breuker -- sophomore from JV last year
Logan Marsh, Heather DeKleine -- sophomore and junior, not previously on varsity or JV

Anyone know anything about these players?

Calvin has only four forwards on the roster (and one guard/forward co-listed with JV), all freshmen and sophomores. Verkaik will obviously be a key player, and Wolffis and Hilbrands were in the rotation last year. Still, might the knights be a bit young and thin in the frontcourt?

There are only two seniors on the roster, neither in the top 10 in terms of minutes played last year.


Patterson comes from Rockford where she started for a 23-4 squad that bowed out in the Class A quarterfinals in March, when the Rams nearly upset No. 1 ranked E Lansing. Rockford always fields a competittive girls b-ball team so I assume she has some potential. I never saw her play.

Heather DeKleine prepped at Hudsonville Unity Christian and was a reserve as a junior when Carrie Snikkers led that team to the Class B state championship. Heather started as a senior before heading off to Gordon College. I saw her play a number of times and I would expect her to be a role player--not a starter--at Calvin. Heather's mom is the former Sharon Boeve and one of the finest female athletes ever at Calvin, winning league MVP honors in both softball and basketball in the 1980's.  Sharon is Calvin's current head softball coach.

Logan Marsh is intriguing. She prepped at Byron Center, started all four years, and was the quickest player I saw playing high school hoops in West Michigan during her time there. She wasn't a great outside shooter but had an exceptionally quick first step, and finished well around the basket. Marsh was a starter for Aquinas two years ago, but apparently took a break from hoops last season. She transfers to Calvin even as her former high school teammate (Shelby Carter) transfers from Calvin to Aquinas. I haven't seen Logan play since high school but unless she's lost a step she should be in the mix for a starting position for a Calvin team that needs some backcourt speed.





Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sflzman on October 28, 2010, 09:57:56 PM
Alma scrimmaged last night - the first basketball event in the new arena -  and won by 14...I do not know who we played, but it has been Northwood the past few years....

Their roster is up....very young and inexperienced.....good talent though

http://www.alma.edu/athletics/wbb/roster
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on October 29, 2010, 03:11:17 PM
One of the weak points in Calvin's game many years has been the lack of quick guards.  More important is guards that can handle the ball well (reduce turnovers), and can handle or deal with a pressing defense.  It would always be nice to have an extra forward ready to play, but don't see it as a problem the ocach can't work with.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on October 30, 2010, 10:39:28 AM
The D3hoops top 25 is up. Hope is #2 and Calvin #24
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on October 30, 2010, 11:07:43 AM
My feeling is the poll looks about right on these two teams.  No doubt about it Hope is the team to beat. :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on November 01, 2010, 09:58:05 AM
Kuncz can also play the four and was in the rotation so that can help in the frontcourt.  Thomas is a good defender with speed at the guard position but doesn't handle ball.  Irwin is a dangerous shooter and good ball handler.  Marsh will help reduce turnovers in backcourt with Irwin and will help with penetration.  Mattson is strong defender and probably reduced to role player this year due to too many TO's at point position.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sflzman on November 04, 2010, 06:49:26 PM
MIAA Poll results are up:

Women's Poll Results (First-place votes in parenthesis): 1. Hope (8) 8 pts. 2. Calvin (1) 15. 3. Saint Mary's 22. 4. Albion 32. 5. Adrian 41. 6. Trine 45 7. Alma 50. 7. Olivet 50. 9. Kalamazoo 63.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on November 12, 2010, 02:17:48 PM
http://d3hoops.com/awards/all-americans/women/preseason-2011

Snikkers 1st team, Verkaik 2nd team.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 12, 2010, 06:46:14 PM
Carrie Snikkers article from GR Press

http://www.mlive.com/smallcolleges/grandrapids/index.ssf/2010/11/carrie_snikkers_hope_ready_for.html
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 15, 2010, 02:25:58 PM
Looking forward to the debut of the Dutch tomorrow night.  Carrie Snikkers needs 11 points to reach 1000 for her career.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on November 16, 2010, 09:48:57 PM
A final from the DeVos Fieldhouse:

Hope 82, Rochester 65

All team members had playing time and Carrie Snikkers led the team with 19 points.

Congratulations Ladies!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on November 16, 2010, 09:51:43 PM
The knights defeated Manchester 62-48 this evening. Verkaik had 25 points and 7 rebounds. The knights were leading by as much as 22 late in the game, before they retired the starters. This result was very similar to last year's 60-44 defeat of Manchester.

The starting point guard was freshman Kristin Tripp. She handled the ball well and could drive to the basket with some facility. She did end up with five turnovers, though. The other starters were Jill Thomas, Courtney Kurncz, Ally Wolffis, and Carissa Verkaik.

Logan Marsh got the most minutes off the bench, at 20, and the most points after Verkaik, with 11. Kelsey Irwin hit three 3-pointers in just a couple of minutes and ended with 9.

It seemed as though the knights turned the ball over rather freely, but their 16 turnovers were two less than last year's total vs. Manchester.

I think that Marsh and Tripp will be good additions to the team, adding some speed and ability to drive to the basket.

With a little more experience on the books for the new players, I think the Knights will have another good year.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 17, 2010, 09:56:20 AM
Congrats to Carrie Smikkers on surpasing the 1000 point mark last night!!  In addition, her 7 rebounds bring her career total to 600.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 17, 2010, 03:49:19 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on November 17, 2010, 09:56:20 AM
Congrats to Carrie Smikkers on surpasing the 1000 point mark last night!!  In addition, her 7 rebounds bring her career total to 600.

Carrie has a really good chance at being Hope's #2 all-time leading scorer.  It would take a special ( long and healthy) season for her to catch Amanda Kerkstra.

1. 1568 - Amanda Kerkstra (107 games) - 1999-03
  2. 1368 - Karen Gingras (86 games) - 1982-86
  3. 1266 - Jordyn Boles (120 games) - 2004-08
  4. 1249 - Lisa Hoekstra (102 games) - 1996-00
  5. 1245 - Bria Ebels (119 games) - 2002-06
  6. 1233 - Kristin Carlson (99 games) - 1991-95
  7. 1101 - Amy Baltmanis (116 games) - 1999-03
  8. 1089 - Nicki Mannes (99 games) - 1991-95
  9. 1059 - Philana Greene (123 games) - 2006-10
10. 1032 - Kris Koenigsknecht (108 games) - 1997-01
11. 1008 - Carrie Snikkers

Career avg's for both points and rebounds would put her in Hope's top 5 in each category, with a modest prediction of 25 more games.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on November 18, 2010, 11:30:28 AM
FWIW:  If Carissa Verkaik is as productive this year as she was last year she should hit 1,000 points in Feb. 2011.
If she is able to produce the remaining 3 years the same as her fr. year she could finish with over 2,00 points, 1,000 rebounds and nearly 400 blocks.

Granted Calvin has to depend on Carissa much more than Hope does on Carrie for points etc.  One can only wonder what Carrie's numbers might have looked like in a similar situation. :)

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 18, 2010, 03:42:03 PM
Not to mention the 14 games Carrie has missed due to injury.  Had she been able to play those games, she would have been on pace to be Hope's all-time leading scorer.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on November 18, 2010, 04:51:29 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on November 18, 2010, 03:42:03 PM
Not to mention the 14 games Carrie has missed due to injury.  Had she been able to play those games, she would have been on pace to be Hope's all-time leading scorer.

She could still do it, but I doubt Hope is going to need her to play 35 minutes a game or average 25 points a game. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on November 19, 2010, 11:09:50 AM
In recent years Hope has had several players that could have posted some gaudy stats if they had played for different teams / systems.  It is common for Hope starters to average 21 or 22 mins per game vs. 30 -35 mins or more for starters in weaker programs.  Some very good players have had to wait a couple of years before breaking into the rotation. and scoring also is more evenly distributed than most teams.

Morehouse has somehow managed to get very good players to join the program and buy into the team first concept.  I am sure it has not been an easy transition for all of the players, but the system is responsible for the programs sustained success.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on November 19, 2010, 01:42:35 PM
Well said WWWRHH.  About the only arguement against that strategy is at some point in the season it is probable the starters are going to be needed for more than their customary 60% of pt.  If memory serves correct every year we find teams making it quite a long way into the NCAA tournament, and even winning it all, with 7 or 8 players playing almost all the minutes.  Having your big guns suddenly faced with playing 36+ minutes, and being pressed to maximum performance with no experience doing either also has a potential downside.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on November 19, 2010, 02:02:05 PM
I don't disagree.  Hope is usually able to field a second team at least as strong as most starting lineups they come up against.  However, teams with exceptional talent that are used to being on the floor for long stretches can disrupt the rotation.  I think there have been times Hope's outside shooters have had trouble getting into rythum against strong defenders.

Although it is hard to argue with consistent runs deep into the playoffs, it would seem that using some competitive games to stretch the top 7 or 8 players minutes out would be a good idea.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on November 19, 2010, 03:19:28 PM
It is indeed very hard to argue with a proven success.  Few teams can match Hope's track record.  I take my hat off to Hope's coach for repeatedly being able to sell his school, and his program to young ladies that could start at most schools, but willingly sit on the bench to be with a winning program.
Looking at Hope's schedule for this year they should be tested at least once this season, and Calvin giving them a run for their money in one of 3 likely matchup is highly probable.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on November 19, 2010, 09:51:13 PM
An update from the DeVos:

Hope 76  Manchester 32

Once again all team players were involved with the victory and all but one got ink in the score column.

Congratulations Ladies!  Go Hope!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on November 19, 2010, 11:09:38 PM
Observations from Hope's 76-32 win.
  Hope's depth and pressure were too much for Manchester. It looked like it might be a close game 12 minutes in, with Hope up 20-14 but Manchester didn't get many good looks at the basket for scoring chances.

  A total team effort but I need to single out Hope's 3rd unit, outscoring Manchester 19-7 on 8 for 12 shooting in 8:03 minutes of play. Not a game changer, but played with confidence seldom seen this far down in the depth chart. Kudos to Brittany Berry with her 5th 3-pointer of the season (71%) and a crisp no-look pass to Bauman that brought the Hope bench to its' feet.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on November 22, 2010, 05:14:00 PM
It would be nice if Calvin could recruit 2 or 3 of those 6' 1" girls from the v-ball team. :)  My gosh, even the announcers in St. Louis could not reall any D3 team with 6 players at that size.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on November 23, 2010, 09:08:36 PM
A final from Defiance:

Hope 76, Defiance 56

Another team effort as all fifteen players were on the court and contributing to the victory.  Congrats Ladies!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on November 23, 2010, 10:02:42 PM
Quote from: gohope on November 23, 2010, 09:08:36 PM
A final from Defiance:

Hope 76, Defiance 56

Another team effort as all fifteen players were on the court and contributing to the victory.  Congrats Ladies!

I did watch the first half and thought Hope looked oddly out of sorts. Things just didn't go smoothly and at times they looked susceptible to ball pressure--something I've rarely seen from the Hope women in recent years. Maybe it's just something they will have to work through given the loss of two starters. Or maybe it's the fact that their opponent was Defiance. Of course 27 from Snikkers (on only 9 shots from the floor) makes up for a lot of imperfections.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on November 25, 2010, 11:02:00 PM
Tons to be thankful for this Thanksgiving Day but let me offer an admittedly small reason to fans of MIAA women's hoops. It is an extraordinary privilege to have two of the finest post players in all of D3 women's hoops in our conference--last season's Player of the Year (Carrie Snikkers) and last season's Freshmen of the Year (Carissa Verkaik). If you get a chance to see these two fine young ladies play, take it. What they have done so far in this short season is quite noteworthy.

After three games Verkaik is averging 21.3 pts and 10.7 rebounds. She has also blocked 10 shots already. Meanwhile, in four games, Snikkers is averaging 19.5 points, 7.3 rebounds and has also blocked 10 shots. But what is most jawdropping about Snikkers stats is her shooting. She has gone 27-38 from the floor (including 7-12 from the arc) and has scored an amazing 76 points in only 78 minutes--nearly a point a minute.

If--as I did--you saw these ladies play against each other in high school, you knew they were both destined to be impact players in college, but what they are doing is really quite rare and worthy of mention. Watch them play at least one or twice this year. You might want to see them go head to head when the conference season begins.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on November 27, 2010, 10:26:37 AM
Good to see J H back on the floor.  Her presence is going to make a big difference going forward.  Hard to beat 11 rebounds, and 8 points in your first game back.  Nice to see 34 points from the bench, and the 10 rebound advantage. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on November 29, 2010, 05:42:05 PM
A nice article on Hope's basketball coach Brian Morehouse.

http://www.mlive.com/smallcolleges/grandrapids/index.ssf/2010/11/profile_hope_womens_basketball.html
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on November 30, 2010, 09:16:55 AM
Early Massey ratings are out. Here's how the MIAA stacks up:

Hope       #3     21.7
Calvin     #36    12.2
St Mary's  #66     4.2
Alma       #204   -8.5
Albion     #230   -7.4
Adrian     #238   -9.3
Olivet     #249   -12.4
Trine      #274   -13.7
Kzoo       #288   -16.3


Quite a wide spread. I don't think this conference would rate very high in parity.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on December 05, 2010, 03:53:25 PM
Now that each of them have played a few games I thought it would be interesting to do a comparison of C.S's numbers with C. V.

                                  C.V.  7 games, and C.S. 6.
point/game                 21.4                         16.2
minutes / game           27.6                         19.8
rebounds/ game           8.4                           6.2
blocks/ game                4                               2
steals / game                1.7                           2.3
shooting %                 .556 (60-106)           .660  (35-53)
f.t. %                          .853  (29-34)             .700  (21-30)


     
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on December 05, 2010, 09:56:10 PM
Quote from: realist on December 05, 2010, 03:53:25 PM
Now that each of them have played a few games I thought it would be interesting to do a comparison of C.S's numbers with C. V.

                                  C.V.  7 games, and C.S. 6.
point/game                 21.4                         16.2
minutes / game           27.6                         19.8
rebounds/ game           8.4                           6.2
blocks/ game                4                               2
steals / game                1.7                           2.3
shooting %                 .556 (60-106)           .660  (35-53)
f.t. %                          .853  (29-34)             .700  (21-30)


     

If my math skills have not deteriorated with age these stats break down per minute played to:

p/m ver-.775 snik-.818
r/m ver-.304 snik-.313
b/m ver-.145 snik-.101
s/m ver-.062 snik-.116

for what it's worth...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on December 05, 2010, 10:16:44 PM
I attended the Flying Dutch game yesterday at Alma and was impressed with the new Art Smith Arena.  There are folding  seats on one side of the floor and bleacher seating on the other (non-bench) side with horse-shoe seating on one end.  Very nice color scheme.  One of the nicest, clearest scoreboard color video screens I have seen.  At halftime they ran a nice promo video on the Alma teacher education program.  The scoreboard has a wonderful horn signal rather than a jarring buzzer. A particular plus for one my age are the waterless urinals in the mensroom (far more pleasant than the urinals at De Vos which after a few uses become absolutely disgusting.)  I do think the PA system needs some tweeking. It was muffled, hard to understand (the audio piped into the men's room, however, was crystal clear.)  Perhaps it is because of the accoustics in the arena, the PA announcer's voice and delivery, or my ears, but I had trouble understanding what was announced.  The only other problem I had was that I tripped over a catsup packet that had fallen to the floor.  Otherwise, my condiments to the planners and executors of the new facility.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on December 07, 2010, 01:11:57 PM
WI Whitewater, the team that defeated Calvin by 6 points, jumped up to #2 in the Massey rating, after big wins against WI Lacrosse and WI Stout. WI Lacrosse is rated #4 by Massey.

Massey looked favorably upon Whitewater's increase, along with Calvin's big wins against St Mary's and Adrian, and Calvin jumped 15 places to #20 in D3. Hope moved down 1 to #3, and St Mary's is next after Calvin, at #68.

Massey's latest ratings have Hope about 7 points stronger than Calvin and Calvin about 12 points stronger than St Mary's. Massey now gives Calvin a 34% chance of beating Hope at home -- much better odds than last year.

Update: huge game for Calvin tomorrow night against unbeaten Carthage, ranked fifth in the d3hoops.com poll. However, Massey ranks Carthage at #12 and Calvin at #20 and gives them both about the same power.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: calvinite on December 08, 2010, 08:59:34 PM
Calvin knocks off #5 ranked and undefeated Carthage 69-59 in a game that was never really close. Great job Knights!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on December 08, 2010, 09:25:37 PM
Congrats to the Flying Dutch on another victory as Hope defeats Kalamazoo College this evening 98-41.  All Hope players got into the record book, both with minutes and with points. Another great team victory. Congrats Ladies!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 09, 2010, 12:39:41 AM
Quote from: gohope on December 08, 2010, 09:25:37 PM
Congrats to the Flying Dutch on another victory as Hope defeats Kalamazoo College this evening 98-41.  All Hope players got into the record book, both with minutes and with points. Another great team victory. Congrats Ladies!

Hope's starting 5 played 38% of the available minutes.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on December 09, 2010, 05:59:01 AM
Quote from: calvinite on December 08, 2010, 08:59:34 PM
Calvin knocks off #5 ranked and undefeated Carthage 69-59 in a game that was never really close. Great job Knights!

Great win for Calvin last night. Carthage's game plan was to take away Calvin's inside game, and they did a good job of it, especially during the first half. They kept Verkaik scoreless for the first 18 minutes. However, Calvin's outside shooters responded to the challenge, hitting 13 of 26 three-pointers.  Calvin also out-rebounded the Lady Reds, 38-29.

Some of that best-in-the-nation blocking of the volleyball team must have rubbed off onto the hoops team as Calvin blocked a season-best 13 of Carthage's 58 shots, or more than 20%, helping to keep Carthage's shooting percentage down to 35%. In fact, Carthage normally shoots 46%, and with 13 of those shots blocked, 35% is about exactly what you'd expect. Julia Hilbrands, who is also on the volleyball team, blocked five off the bench, and Verkaik had six.

Isn't Carthage the only team to have defeated Hope last year during the regular season?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on December 09, 2010, 07:40:22 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on December 09, 2010, 05:59:01 AM
Quote from: calvinite on December 08, 2010, 08:59:34 PM
Calvin knocks off #5 ranked and undefeated Carthage 69-59 in a game that was never really close. Great job Knights!

Great win for Calvin last night. Carthage's game plan was to take away Calvin's inside game, and they did a good job of it, especially during the first half. However, Calvin's outside shooters responded to the challenge, hitting 13 of 26 three-pointers.  Calvin also out-rebounded the Lady Reds, 38-29.

Some of that best-in-the-nation blocking of the volleyball team must have rubbed off onto the hoops team as Calvin blocked a season-best 13 of Carthage's 58 shots, or more than 20%, helping to keep Carthage's shooting percentage down to .333. Julia Hilbrands, who is also on the volleyball team, blocked five off the bench, and Verkaik had six.

Isn't Carthage the only team to have defeated Hope last year during the regular season?

You are correct. Carthage beat Hope by 4 in Atlanta at Oglethorpe during a holiday tournament last year. It was the first of several games Carrie Snikkers missed due to injury, a stretch that lasted until late January. I'm sorry I missed last night's big game but church duty called. I see that Heather DeKleine came off the bench to throw three straight daggers from the arc at the Lady Reds in the second half after the visitors closed the gap to single digits. The assembled faithful at Van Noord must have gotten out of their seats when those went in.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on December 09, 2010, 07:41:18 AM
Quote from: sac on December 09, 2010, 12:39:41 AM

Hope's starting 5 played 38% of the available minutes.

... and none of them together on the same rotation during the second half.  Coach Mo mixed up the lineup and platooned 5, 5, and 5 with starters on each rotation.  They still looked good.

Interesting side note:  The K coach, Sharri Brumfield, was sick and did not travel to Holland.  No worries, though, her assistant was aided by a rather capable stand-in: Rob Passage.


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on December 09, 2010, 10:40:52 AM
<<Hope's starting 5 played 38% of the available minutes.>>

Hope had the usual 1st, 2nd & 3rd rotations in the 1st half, but in the 2nd half Coach Mo blended parts of each unit into each rotation. Example: Starting 5 in 2nd half: Snikkers, DeKuiper (1st); Kust(2nd), Allore, Bauman (3rd) all played together. There wasn't much fall-off between any of the other two blended rotations either. It was fun to see how all these players interacted with each other.
The showdown against last year's D-3 champion Washington, Mo. in the Ohio Wesleyan Tournament on December 29 is fast approaching.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on December 17, 2010, 06:39:43 AM
The first round of NCAA statistics are out. Top-25 performances by MIAA athletes:

Calvin's Carissa Verkaik:
#1 in blocked shots per game (4.2)
#12 in field goal percentage (59.7)
#15 in points per game (20.7)

Hope's Carrie Snikkers:
#21 in field goal percentage (57.8)

Kalamazoo's Holly Cooperrider:
#25 in free-throw percentage (88.9)

St. Mary's Liz Wade:
#19 in steals per game (3.9)

St. Mary's Kelley Murphy:
#19 in double-doubles (5)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on December 17, 2010, 09:53:07 PM
Hope with a disappointing 73-38 victory against Concordia, IL. Massey the score 87-36.  :o
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 17, 2010, 10:18:06 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on December 17, 2010, 09:53:07 PM
Hope with a disappointing 73-38 victory against Concordia, IL. Massey the score 87-36.  :o

The Hope coach has more sportsmanship than Massey! 8-)

35 points seems enough.  No real need for 51. :P
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on December 17, 2010, 11:25:32 PM
After a week of exams, the Dutch did not look sharp tonight.  More turnovers than normal and not many offensive rebounds in the first half.  21 of Concordia's 38 points came from Marche Smith; 8 for 13 in 34 minutes played.  She was a deadly shooter who somehow managed to get free for a quick shot.  Despite the score, it was sort of an ugly win...but a win none-the-less.  Carrie scored 18.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on December 18, 2010, 03:21:09 PM
Calvin had to shake off some of those post exam issues themselves against Albion 73-65.  CV another double double 30-13. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on December 18, 2010, 04:44:35 PM
Final from the DeVos Fieldhouse:

Hope  69
Wittenberg  48

Congrats to the Flying Dutch!!  Another team effort as all players inked their name into the record book.

Wishing everyone a very Merry Christmas!  :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on December 18, 2010, 05:55:26 PM
Quote from: realist on December 18, 2010, 03:21:09 PM
Calvin had to shake off some of those post exam issues themselves against Albion 73-65.  CV another double double 30-13.  

Yes, it took the whole first quarter, during which Calvin scored only five points.

Verkaik also had 9 blocks--very nearly a triple double. It amazes me how she can continue to play well, even to play better toward the end of the game, when she is getting shoved and beat on all game. Especially considering how thin she is!
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.calvin.edu%2Fweblogs-sys%2Fimages%2Fuploads%2Fknights%2FVerkaikIMG_6304.jpg&hash=76079a40361e28e55493e6390280aa55b3bc279d)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on December 18, 2010, 07:48:37 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on December 18, 2010, 05:55:26 PM
Quote from: realist on December 18, 2010, 03:21:09 PM
Calvin had to shake off some of those post exam issues themselves against Albion 73-65.  CV another double double 30-13. 

Yes, it took the whole first quarter, during which Calvin scored only five points.

Verkaik also had 9 blocks--very nearly a triple double. It amazes me how she can continue to play well, even to play better toward the end of the game, when she is getting shoved and beat on all game. Especially considering how thin she is!


Carissa really is an amazing player--very athletic without initially appearing to be so and exceptionally composed. Not only does she run the floor well, but she can do so while dribbling the ball on the break in traffic and make good decisions with it. She's also an excellent free throw shooter and wants to take the biggest shots of the game. She simply dominates play at both ends of the floor. Today was the first women's game I attended this year and Verkaik gets better every time I see her. I wouldn't be surprised if she wins a D3 POY award some day.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on December 18, 2010, 08:05:38 PM
Wow!  30 pts., 13 boards, 9 blocks, 9-15 fg, 2-3 3pt, 10-11 ft.  Pretty good day.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on December 18, 2010, 08:57:38 PM
Quote from: oldknight on December 18, 2010, 07:48:37 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on December 18, 2010, 05:55:26 PM
Quote from: realist on December 18, 2010, 03:21:09 PM
Calvin had to shake off some of those post exam issues themselves against Albion 73-65.  CV another double double 30-13. 

Yes, it took the whole first quarter, during which Calvin scored only five points.

Verkaik also had 9 blocks--very nearly a triple double. It amazes me how she can continue to play well, even to play better toward the end of the game, when she is getting shoved and beat on all game. Especially considering how thin she is!


Carissa really is an amazing player--very athletic without initially appearing to be so and exceptionally composed. Not only does she run the floor well, but she can do so while dribbling the ball on the break in traffic and make good decisions with it. She's also an excellent free throw shooter and wants to take the biggest shots of the game. She simply dominates play at both ends of the floor. Today was the first women's game I attended this year and Verkaik gets better every time I see her. I wouldn't be surprised if she wins a D3 POY award some day.

Obviously, I Hope it isn't until next season.  :) :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on December 18, 2010, 10:34:32 PM
Quote from: gohope on December 18, 2010, 04:44:35 PM
Hope  69
Wittenberg  48
An oddity from today's game.  With just under 6 minutes left, and Hope leading 64 to 36, Coach Morehouse put his third five unit in to play out the rest of the game.  Wittenberg's coach left her starters in right to the last second (with her two top scorers clocking 39 and 35 minutes), and with her end-of-the-bench players never taking off their jackets.  If I were those players--having practiced hard and travelled this distance (or if I were their parents, or if I were a proponent of the DIII student-athlete philosophy)--I'd find that a bit odd.  Actually, as a fan I also found it a bit odd.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on December 18, 2010, 10:37:17 PM
Quote from: pointlem on December 18, 2010, 10:34:32 PM
Quote from: gohope on December 18, 2010, 04:44:35 PM
Hope  69
Wittenberg  48
An oddity from today's game.  With just under 6 minutes left, and Hope leading 64 to 36, Coach Morehouse put his third five unit in to play out the rest of the game.  Wittenberg's coach left her starters in right to the last second (with her two top scorers clocking 39 and 35 minutes), and with her end-of-the-bench players never taking off their jackets.  If I were those players--having practiced hard and travelled this distance (or if I were their parents, or if I were a proponent of the DIII student-athlete philosophy)--I'd find that a bit odd.  Actually, as a fan I also found it a bit odd.
As did I!!!   >:(
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on December 19, 2010, 02:10:39 PM
Quote from: pointlem on December 18, 2010, 10:34:32 PM
Quote from: gohope on December 18, 2010, 04:44:35 PM
Hope  69
Wittenberg  48
An oddity from today's game.  With just under 6 minutes left, and Hope leading 64 to 36, Coach Morehouse put his third five unit in to play out the rest of the game.  Wittenberg's coach left her starters in right to the last second (with her two top scorers clocking 39 and 35 minutes), and with her end-of-the-bench players never taking off their jackets.  If I were those players--having practiced hard and travelled this distance (or if I were their parents, or if I were a proponent of the DIII student-athlete philosophy)--I'd find that a bit odd.  Actually, as a fan I also found it a bit odd.

I am not sure what you mean by this phrase.  I don't ever recall reading or hearing anywhere in NCAA D3 materials where it was implied that fairmess dictated that a coach had to play everyone that dresssed or anything like that.  Coaches are expected to treat players with respect, but that can very from coach to coach.   Perhaps telling her players it was okay to give up when faced with a superior opponent isn't the way this coach chooses to direct her team.  Maybe this coach wanted her best players to experience playing those minutes knowing full well they may be called on to do it repeatedly throughout the season.  It is nice to have the luxury of being able to play all your players every game, but I am not sure you can imply this is morally superior in some manner. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 20, 2010, 11:38:53 AM
Quote from: realist on December 19, 2010, 02:10:39 PM
Quote from: pointlem on December 18, 2010, 10:34:32 PM
Quote from: gohope on December 18, 2010, 04:44:35 PM
Hope  69
Wittenberg  48
An oddity from today's game.  With just under 6 minutes left, and Hope leading 64 to 36, Coach Morehouse put his third five unit in to play out the rest of the game.  Wittenberg's coach left her starters in right to the last second (with her two top scorers clocking 39 and 35 minutes), and with her end-of-the-bench players never taking off their jackets.  If I were those players--having practiced hard and travelled this distance (or if I were their parents, or if I were a proponent of the DIII student-athlete philosophy)--I'd find that a bit odd.  Actually, as a fan I also found it a bit odd.

I am not sure what you mean by this phrase.  I don't ever recall reading or hearing anywhere in NCAA D3 materials where it was implied that fairmess dictated that a coach had to play everyone that dresssed or anything like that.  Coaches are expected to treat players with respect, but that can very from coach to coach.   Perhaps telling her players it was okay to give up when faced with a superior opponent isn't the way this coach chooses to direct her team.  Maybe this coach wanted her best players to experience playing those minutes knowing full well they may be called on to do it repeatedly throughout the season.  It is nice to have the luxury of being able to play all your players every game, but I am not sure you can imply this is morally superior in some manner. 

Seriously?

Just last year you complained about Hope not subbing vs Calvin at the end of one their games.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on December 20, 2010, 04:40:17 PM
Different circumstances.   :)  In one case the team with the lead kept the starters in (in a game that was clearly decided), and in the other the trailing team kept the starters in. 
If you defend leaving the starters in when your team has a lead, like Hope did last year, you really should not complain about what the trailing coach does.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 20, 2010, 05:05:41 PM
Regardless of 'd3 philosophy' or 'sportsmanship', as a practical matter if the bench can't see the floor even in blow-outs (either way), how long will there BE a bench?

At IWU my junior year, I was 7th man on a tennis team where none of the first 6 ever missed a match (and I was not allowed to challenge for a spot during the season, after the guy who beat me out for 6th man needed something well over 100 games to beat me in three sets and was too sore to play the first match ;)), so I NEVER saw the court.  

My senior year, three new freshmen (based on fall pickup games) were clearly going to be among the top 4 slots (and only 1 or 2 seniors had graduated) so I did not return that year.  (Though that turned out to be a mistake as several other players also did not - including the three freshmen - and I probably would have played 3rd or 4th!  Ah, well, to be honest if I was 3rd or 4th, the team was destined for a VERY poor season! :P)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on December 21, 2010, 11:16:15 AM
Congrats to Ms. Verkaik for getting POW.  Watching that game, but not tracking the stats I was surprised by the final numbers.   The MIAA is really blessed to have so many high quality players.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on December 29, 2010, 07:47:28 PM
It's a Final!!

Hope  49
Wash U  47


I checked in on the live stats a number of times during the game, but from the quick look at things, the game was a see-saw battle. Congrats to the Flying Dutch on a pretty sweet victory!

If anyone has updates, please share!!!


========

A quick glance at some stats:


                HOPE                WashU
FG             31.5                    32.3
3pt              22.2                  9.1
FT                61.1                 50.0
Reb              50                    36
TO's              23                   14
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 30, 2010, 08:40:17 AM
Followed the game last night via live stats while watching the RDV tournament in Holland.  It was kind of funny that about 2 minutes into the Hope/Marygrove game, Marygrove was bringing the ball up court when a huge cheer went out from the crowd as the womens final was posted. 

Kudos to Carrie Snikkers on an outstanding game.  13 points, 14 rebounds, 2 blocks, 3 steals, and ZERO fouls in 30 minutes.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on December 30, 2010, 11:04:40 AM
We seriously considered making the road trip to Ohio for last nights game, but in the end work obligations got in the way.  However, we were able to watch the live computer feed of the game.  Those that were there may be able to provide better insight, but I will start the conversation with a few observations.

It was a see-saw game and more of a defensive battle with both teams shooting percentages well below expectations.  The Dutch were painfully bad from three point range and Snikkkers had a difficult time getting even inside shots to fall.  I attribute the low scoring to tough defense on the part of both teams and the long layoff since the last game.  Hope has seemed to struggle in the first game after break so it was a break through to perform well against another tough team.

This was an important match against a tough opponent that will help prepare the Dutch both physically and psychologically for the post-season. 

It also appeared that the standard rotation was abandoned late in the game in favor or a strong defensive  / rebounding lineup.  Snikkers and Geers played big minutes (30 /28) and Kussmal  was in the lineup with Snikkers in the closing minutes.  So it looked like Morehouse managed this game more like a national tournament game and went with those players that provided the skill set needed to win this particular game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on December 30, 2010, 04:09:17 PM
It was a good win for Hope against a very, very good team.    :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on December 30, 2010, 04:26:09 PM
yes what a really nice win
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 30, 2010, 04:46:54 PM
Hope over OWU 85-58 - and it wasn't that close. 

Geers, Bruinsma, and Snikkers on the all-tournament team
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on December 30, 2010, 05:18:40 PM
Calvin wins their first game in CA. 59 to 36.  Lots of players, lots of minutes.  Looks like tomorrows game will be a bit tougher.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on December 30, 2010, 05:43:40 PM
Quote from: WWWRHH on December 30, 2010, 11:04:40 AM
We seriously considered making the road trip to Ohio for last nights game, but in the end work obligations got in the way.  However, we were able to watch the live computer feed of the game.  Those that were there may be able to provide better insight, but I will start the conversation with a few observations.

It was a see-saw game and more of a defensive battle with both teams shooting percentages well below expectations.  The Dutch were painfully bad from three point range and Snikkkers had a difficult time getting even inside shots to fall.  I attribute the low scoring to tough defense on the part of both teams and the long layoff since the last game.  Hope has seemed to struggle in the first game after break so it was a break through to perform well against another tough team.

This was an important match against a tough opponent that will help prepare the Dutch both physically and psychologically for the post-season. 

It also appeared that the standard rotation was abandoned late in the game in favor or a strong defensive  / rebounding lineup.  Snikkers and Geers played big minutes (30 /28) and Kussmal  was in the lineup with Snikkers in the closing minutes.  So it looked like Morehouse managed this game more like a national tournament game and went with those players that provided the skill set needed to win this particular game.

That's why "Mo's da man!!!!!!!"
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on December 30, 2010, 10:59:37 PM
Nice story about the former coach at George Fox and one of the players who thwarted the Flying Dutch's hopes of playing for the national championship before the home crowd two years ago.

http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms/sites/web/sports/25700326-41/osu-rueck-basketball-coach-indendi.csp
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on January 10, 2011, 12:12:19 AM
Here's a unique stat re. the Hope vs. Adrian boxscore on Sat.  Hope wins, 73-47, but the five starters score a grand total of 23 points, leaving 50 points for the bench.  Top three scorers all came off the bench, with only one in double figures with 13.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on January 10, 2011, 02:19:27 PM
Tidbits from the Hope College Hoops luncheon:
  In attendance: Coach Morehouse; Players: Kust & Ellis
1. GPA's: Kust - 4.0  Ellis - 3.8
2. Team has been tested for 1 1/2 games so far.
3. Referred to week of 1/16 - 1/22 as Championship week, 1/18@Calvin, 1/20@Albion and 1/22 against someone, oh yeah Alma@Hope. Morehouse wasn't too concerned about this game.
4.Injuries: Kust: Recovering from a hip flexor injury which she has playing through.
                 Snikkers: Knee, limited in practice but shouldn't affect game minutes. Getting better.
5.Recruiting: Looking at more out-of-state recruits than in-state. Competition tough for players against Davenport, Aquinas, Cornerstone & Grand Valley.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 10, 2011, 05:32:51 PM
Thanks jspiii. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on January 10, 2011, 06:55:12 PM
Quote from: jspiii on January 10, 2011, 02:19:27 PM
Tidbits from the Hope College Hoops luncheon:
  In attendance: Coach Morehouse; Players: Kust & Ellis
1. GPA's: Kust - 4.0  Ellis - 3.8
2. Team has been tested for 1 1/2 games so far.
3. Referred to week of 1/16 - 1/22 as Championship week, 1/18@Calvin, 1/20@Albion and 1/22 against someone, oh yeah Alma@Hope. Morehouse wasn't too concerned about this game.
4.Injuries: Kust: Recovering from a hip flexor injury which she has playing through.
                 Snikkers: Knee, limited in practice but shouldn't affect game minutes. Getting better.
5.Recruiting: Looking at more out-of-state recruits than in-state. Competition tough for players against Davenport, Aquinas, Cornerstone & Grand Valley.


I echo the Kudos - Thanks jspiii
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on January 17, 2011, 01:18:58 PM
Here are the comparisons for Hope (15-0) @ Calvin (12-3) on Tuesday night

Offense      % 2pt    % 3pt       % FT 
Hope             50.5    35.7       65.3 
Calvin           50.4    29.1       75.8 
                 
Defense      % 2pt    % 3pt       
Hope            31.8     29.5       
Calvin          34.5     22.6       
                 
Rebounding      Team    Opp       Margin 
Hope                 43.2    33.4         9.8
Calvin                40.9    35.4         5.5 
                 
Scoring      Team    Opp       Margin 
Hope          75.5    47.3        28.2 
Calvin         68.3    50.7        17.6
                 
3 point shooting      Attempts    Made       Made/game 
Hope                          263          94              6.3 
Calvin                         302          88              5.9 
                 
Blocks      Total    per game       
Hope         80        5.3       
Calvin       105       7.0       
                 
Steals      Total    per game       
Hope        202       13.5       
Calvin       142        9.5       
                 
Turnovers      Total     per game       
Hope              252    16.8       
Calvin             274    18.3       
                 
Assists      Total    per game       
Hope         239        15.9       
Calvin        244        16.3       
                 
Assist/Turnover                 
Hope      0.9           
Calvin     0.9   

2009-2010 scores
1/19 @Hope 73 Calvin 58
2/3      Hope 61 @Calvin 50
2/27 @Hope 68  Calvin 49

Hope has an 8 game winning streak against Calvin. Last Calvin win against Hope was in 2007.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 18, 2011, 11:06:43 AM
Should be a very good game this evening.  Each team has some strenghts.  Key or critical for Calvin will be keeping turnovers down.   If Hope aggressively goes for the ball it will give Calvin big problems.  As much as I would like to see Calvin win one again I just think Hope has too many good players.  Can Calvin win, yes, but it would take a very hot hand from long range, plus controlling the boards.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: GoKnights68 on January 18, 2011, 09:11:15 PM
Calvin beats Hope 56-55
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 18, 2011, 09:42:21 PM
I think Calvin's defensive intensity was key tonight. Calvin held Hope to 20 points in the first half with relentless defensive intensity. Hope came out with the same intensity -- it was a very low scoring first part of the game. But at a point when Hope led 15-7 Calvin turned the  intensity up to 11 and finished the first half leading 29-20.

Calvin's defense held Hope to 2 of 11 from three-point range and hit 6 of 12. Hope forced more Calvin turnovers in the second half but the knights were able to hang on.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 18, 2011, 09:46:44 PM
Good grief - Hope couldn't enjoy even 24 hours as #1 in the country!  I haven't yet seen a recap - did Carissa go crazy on 'em, or was it a total team victory?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on January 18, 2011, 10:08:06 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 18, 2011, 09:46:44 PM
Good grief - Hope couldn't enjoy even 24 hours as #1 in the country!  I haven't yet seen a recap - did Carissa go crazy on 'em, or was it a total team victory?

I'd call it a team victory. The halfcourt three-pointer Calvin made as the first-half buzzer sounded was a killer. Three point shooting was the big difference, and Calvin got better contributions from their other players. Calvin had great defensive intensity, but Hope missed some shots they should have made. Good win for the Damsels.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 18, 2011, 10:14:17 PM
http://www.miaa.org/wbb/stats/1011/0118cahp.htm


Hope had a 9 point lead 18-9, then Calvin outscored them 20-2 to finish the half.  Pretty sure no one's done that to Hope in recent years.   Two really big 3's by Calvin in the final minutes when it really  looked like Hope had the momentum and were going to pull it out.


Hope had won 35 MIAA league games in a row, and 41 in row vs league teams.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on January 18, 2011, 10:15:01 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 18, 2011, 09:46:44 PM
Good grief - Hope couldn't enjoy even 24 hours as #1 in the country!  I haven't yet seen a recap - did Carissa go crazy on 'em, or was it a total team victory?

Actually, Hope will still get to "enjoy" one week.

If I had to make a guess, the Damsels won't enjoy their trip to the DeVos.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on January 18, 2011, 10:21:34 PM
From an unbiased eye (Hope fan), that was a humdinger of a game.

The 18-2 Calvin run to end the 1st half, capped by a half-court 3-point buzzer beater didn't help.

I also think Calvin's perimeter defense was the key. Hope didn't get very many decent looks at the basket.

In spite of 18 points from Verkaik, I think Bruinsma did a great interior defensive job on her.

Sitting behind Hope's bench, Snikkers had a little bit of an emotional breakdown with a little over 2 minutes to go. Not sure what that was all about.

I was surprised Eliis was a non-factor during the whole game, not sure who she was guarded by.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 18, 2011, 10:22:46 PM
I threw up a quick video of the final 2 seconds on my blog.

http://tomaroonandgold.blogspot.com/2011/01/lady-knights-hand-flying-dutch-first.html
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on January 18, 2011, 10:40:24 PM
I concur with others, though I watched via video from afar.  It was a good game and looked like a great atmosphere.  I thought Calvin's two three-pointers near the end of the game were killers.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeCSO on January 18, 2011, 10:48:25 PM
Quote from: jspiii on January 18, 2011, 10:21:34 PM
Sitting behind Hope's bench, Snikkers had a little bit of an emotional breakdown with a little over 2 minutes to go. Not sure what that was all about.


Carrie recieved a knee to her braced knee by I believe Carissa...Mo/Carrie called a time out and she played the last 3 min. in pain.  That's the view I saw.  I pray she will be alright.  Looked like Carissa said she was sorry to Carrie after the game...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on January 18, 2011, 10:53:20 PM
What a great back-and-forth game.  Yes, never would I have imagined Hope being outscored 20-2 for the last 7.5 minutes of the first half (after holding Calvin to only 9 points in the fist 12+ minutes).  After that half-court 3-point shot at the buzzer, I turned to HopeConvert and said (mindful of the long ago CRC-RCA split) that I guess God actually didn't like the Masonic Lodge.

The stats remind me of the Hope-Calvin men's game--with Hope hitting 2 of 11 on 3's, and Calvin hitting 6 of 12 (and that from a team that had been shooting 29% of 3's for the season).  Hope's 16 to 7 advantage on steals is what kept them in the game, despite 35% shooting overall.  When Hope shot poorly against Wash U--in last year's championship game and again this year--they seemed to miss a lot of shots they normally would make.  Tonight, with the exception of a couple missed point-blank lay-ups, I had the sense that Calvin's defense was taking away their open looks . . . including on that last shot, though Carrie may have had a little more time than she realized.  Nevertheless, kudos to Carrie for carrying the team almost to victory.

Verkaik is an impressive defender and rebounder--a big part of what enables Calvin's tight perimeter defense.  Kudos also to her, and to Bruinsma and Kussmaul for playing her tough.

I am already looking forward to the rematch!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on January 19, 2011, 01:24:26 AM
I agree, threes were the difference.  Thomas and Irwin hit them when they counted and Hope couldn't buy one.  Snikkers and Verkaik were all they could be in this one.  Hopefully we see these two play two more times this year and maybe in the NCAA tourney too!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 19, 2011, 10:56:55 AM
Great game.  Calvin did most of what I thought it would take for them to win.  Hope did a great job of hawking the ball, and caused the turnovers, and that is what I anticipated.  I agree with others that the 3's told the story.
Sorry to hear about CS's knee.  She is a heck of a player. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 20, 2011, 09:10:23 PM
The knights set a couple of college records tonight vs. Trine -- largest margin of victory, at 44, and least points by an opponent in a half, at 10. They're still playing tough defense and hitting the threes...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on January 20, 2011, 11:04:23 PM
Reminds me of Hope's first game vs. Kazoo in 2006.  Hope led 45-6 at the half, and won 93-28.  I see Calvin really spread the minutes around tonight, too.  Lots of bench minutes (and points) in these games.  Looking at the stats from Hope's game 5 years ago, one sort of unusual thing stands out to me: all of Hope's players played either 14 or 12 minutes.  Hope went on to beat the Hornets 90-44 at Kazoo.  It will be interesting to see what Calvin does to Trine later this year.  After this week's games--assuming they don't fall apart against St. Mary's--Calvin makes a strong case for jumping into the d3hoops top 25 rankings, imho.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on January 20, 2011, 11:45:03 PM
Solid victory by Hope tonight against a pretty good Albion team.  Surprise performance of the night comes from Erika Bruinsma.  After going 0-fer 23 minutes against Calvin Tuesday, Erika led all scorers with 19 points, and added 8 rebs, 2 steals, and 2 blocks for good measure.  Great game, E!

The Dutch still have some work to do.  After taking a 10-2 lead 4 minutes into the game, they went cold, getting outscored 8-2 in the next 5:45.  They have to get more consistent with their scoring throughout the game.  To their credit, they didn't let the game get away from them tonight, and finished the half on a 15-4 run to lead by 10.  The second half scoring was a lot more even and accurate (39.3% 1st half, 51.9% 2nd).  For the game, six players hit from 3, three of them twice.  Again, the accuracy improved in the 2nd half (30.8% to 45.5%).  I'd still like to see better free throw shooting.  52.6%?  Really?

I couldn't say if Hope changed their defensive strategy at halftime, but something started working for them.  After giving up 4 of 11 3-pointers in the 1st half (some very open looks), they only allowed Albion 6 attempts in the 2nd, none of which were good.  After getting out-rebounded in the first half, they turned that around, too.  Whatever Coach Mo said in the halftime chat, I'm thinking maybe they could start the rest of their games with that.   ;)

A bit slow off the blocks, but once they got it going, a good all-around performance from the Dutch tonight to take sole possession of 2nd in the MIAA.  On to the second half of league play, and toward some championships.  Go Dutch!  Go Hope!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 21, 2011, 12:24:09 PM
Hard to know about the national rankings.  Beating #1 is big, but MIAA overal isn't viewed that highly.  Move up yes, but to top 25 I doubt it.
Considering precedent Hope probably drops to 3 or 4.

I notice CS played 20 minutes last night so I assume she suffered no ill affects from Tuesday night knee banging.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 21, 2011, 01:18:59 PM
Quote from: realist on January 21, 2011, 12:24:09 PM
Hard to know about the national rankings.  Beating #1 is big, but MIAA overal isn't viewed that highly.  Move up yes, but to top 25 I doubt it.
Considering precedent Hope probably drops to 3 or 4.

I notice CS played 20 minutes last night so I assume she suffered no ill affects from Tuesday night knee banging.

I think Hope will be around 5 next week, and Calvin either sneaks in or is just outside the top 25. 

Concerning CS, this was reported in the Sentinel today:

"Our seniors really showed up tonight," Morehouse said, including among others,  Snikkers who's not 100 percent because of left knee issues and guards Lauren Geers and Miranda DeKuiper.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 21, 2011, 04:57:50 PM
Video highlights of the Calvin-Hope game:

http://vimeo.com/19021203 (http://vimeo.com/19021203)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 22, 2011, 11:16:10 AM
Thanks FDF: 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 22, 2011, 05:35:58 PM
Wow, Hope gets their lowest point total of the year against Alma (1-16) and squeaks out a win.  :o What was that all about?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on January 22, 2011, 06:06:49 PM
[ What was that all about? ]

A lot of unforced turnovers by Hope and poor shooting.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sflzman on January 22, 2011, 06:18:35 PM
Anyone at Hope game today that can fill me in on how my Scots hung in there?

POST 300!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: fannie on January 22, 2011, 08:18:33 PM
Part of the problem was poor rebounding on Hope's end - Alma 46, Hope 39!
Alma hussled, Hope did not.  Hope seemed completely worn out - physically and emotionally.  LONG week for them.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sflzman on January 22, 2011, 08:23:32 PM
Thanks fannie...

That is the toughness a two-time breast cancer survivor brings to a team...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 23, 2011, 05:05:33 PM
Quote from: fannie on January 22, 2011, 08:18:33 PM
Part of the problem was poor rebounding on Hope's end - Alma 46, Hope 39!
Alma hussled, Hope did not.  Hope seemed completely worn out - physically and emotionally.  LONG week for them.

6 of the 9 MIAA teams had 3 games this week.  Olivet, Adrian, and Albion had only 2.  Part of the problem with a 9 member rotation.  Hope's coach several weeks ago called this "championship" week or words to that affect. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on January 24, 2011, 10:33:16 PM
Calvin gets back in the rankings at #23.  Hope falls to #4
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 25, 2011, 11:03:36 AM
Nice to see Calvin get back in at 23.  I expected them to rise some, but thought getting to top 25 was a stretch.  I think it really shows the tremendous regard pollsters have for Hope as much as for Calvin.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on January 27, 2011, 12:26:46 AM
Hope 102, Kalamazoo 37.  Oof.

Not at the game or listening, but here are some random stats from this lop-sided affair:

First half, Hope's starters alone outscored Kalamazoo 24-19...Hope's bench outscored the starters 30-24.

Hope's 3 scoring leaders combined for 36 points and (only) 6 rebounds.  Their rebounding leader, who comes off the bench in the "3rd unit", finished with 8 rebounds...and at 2 points was the low scorer.

Every Hope player played at least 10 minutes.

(Just for fun, Hope's Will Bowser, in leading his team to victory over the Kalamazoo men, posted enough to top the Lady Hornets' total by 9.  His 46 points is good enough for 2nd place all-time at Hope behind Dan Shinabarger's 51 back in 1970...NOT against Kalamazoo.)

After playing 3 games last week, Hope gets a bye this Saturday, thus playing only once this week.  They should be well-rested for the rest of the conference season.  Don't overlook the Wednesday opponent on the way to Saturday's Rivalry rematch, please ladies!   ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 27, 2011, 11:14:26 AM
Nice 62-36 win for the knights last night against a solid 3rd-place Albion team at their house. I didn't see the game, but Calvin's defense was apparently spectacular once again, holding Albion 7 points below their previous season low. Calvin's defense is really starting to stand out in the last few games. Calvin's 3-point field goal percentage defense of 20.7 is the best the league has seen in at least 10 years. Only Hope's squad last year came close.

Ally Wolffis was perfect from the field again, hitting 7 of 7. Her conference shooting percentage of 68.3% is outstanding -- for comparison, the nation's leader on the year is hitting 63.7%. Julia Hilbrands hit 6 of 8, for 19 points in 19 minutes. Carissa Verkaik chipped in another 20 points. The front-court sophomore trio -- Verkaik, Wolffis, and Hilbrands -- is shooting a combined 60.6% in league play. Those are some serious sophomore shooting stars.

The knights moved up to #11 in Massey's ranking (#8 in power), not too far behind #5 Hope. In fact, for the last four games, Calvin has been playing with Massey power that would put them at #3 in the nation.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ziggy on January 27, 2011, 12:09:11 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on January 27, 2011, 12:26:46 AM
Hope 102, Kalamazoo 37.  Oof.


I'm sure Kzoo wasn't looking forward to this two game stretch that started last night. When you're a bottom tier team that loses by 24 points on average it is an awfully tall task to face Hope and Calvin back to back.

The first go-round resulted in a 57 point loss to Hope followed by a 41 point loss to Calvin. Add Kzoo's point totals from those two game combined and they only tie the 76 Calvin scored against them and still come up 22 short of the 98 that Hope hung on them.

With a 65 point loss to Hope, Calvin needs to win by 33 to equal the total point deficit of the first round.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: OC_SID on January 27, 2011, 09:10:44 PM
Quote from: realist on January 23, 2011, 05:05:33 PM
Quote from: fannie on January 22, 2011, 08:18:33 PM
Part of the problem was poor rebounding on Hope's end - Alma 46, Hope 39!
Alma hussled, Hope did not.  Hope seemed completely worn out - physically and emotionally.  LONG week for them.

6 of the 9 MIAA teams had 3 games this week.  Olivet, Adrian, and Albion had only 2.  Part of the problem with a 9 member rotation.  Hope's coach several weeks ago called this "championship" week or words to that affect. 

In my opinion that was a very good result for Alma against Hope, considering the Scots' schedule last week. On Tuesday night, they played at Albion, on Thursday night at Olivet and Saturday at Hope. Playing three games in one week is tough, playing three road games in one week is even tougher.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on January 29, 2011, 10:57:45 AM
Dark Knight, I think you got your statistics mixed up.  They don't match what the statistics were in the Albion Calvin game.  Nevertheless,  it was a great defensive performance by the Knights.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on January 29, 2011, 11:34:09 AM
Quote from: Calvinhoops on January 29, 2011, 10:57:45 AM
Dark Knight, I think you got your statistics mixed up.  They don't match what the statistics were in the Albion Calvin game.  Nevertheless,  it was a great defensive performance by the Knights.

If so, DK may have a problem depending on whether he trying to convey either truth (Cartesian or otherwise) or scientific certainty. ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 29, 2011, 12:47:58 PM
Quote from: oldknight on January 29, 2011, 11:34:09 AM
Quote from: Calvinhoops on January 29, 2011, 10:57:45 AM
Dark Knight, I think you got your statistics mixed up.  They don't match what the statistics were in the Albion Calvin game.  Nevertheless,  it was a great defensive performance by the Knights.

If so, DK may have a problem depending on whether he trying to convey either truth (Cartesian or otherwise) or scientific certainty. ;)

Who needs statistics to arrive at truth. They're never accurate anyway.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 29, 2011, 09:05:27 PM
Calvin 75 to 40.   :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ziggy on February 02, 2011, 03:23:59 PM
First set of regional rankings:
Great Lakes Region Record Overall Record
1. Thomas More 18-0 19-0
2. Denison 17-0 19-0
3. Calvin 13-0 17-3
4. Hanover 16-1 17-1
5. Hope 15-1 18-1
6. St. Vincent 15-2 17-2
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 02, 2011, 03:28:43 PM
Full look at the First Regional Rankings: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/category/ncaa-stuff/regional-rankings/
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ziggy on February 03, 2011, 12:46:17 PM
It will be interesting to see if Calvin and Hope keep their starters' minutes below season averages with a shorter turnaround for their matchup on Saturday. It appears Hope has the tougher matchup tonight but neither team should have much trouble.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 03, 2011, 03:13:18 PM
Quote from: ziggy on February 03, 2011, 12:46:17 PM
It will be interesting to see if Calvin and Hope keep their starters' minutes below season averages with a shorter turnaround for their matchup on Saturday. It appears Hope has the tougher matchup tonight but neither team should have much trouble.

Hope seems to always have a tough game in South Bend.  I'm HOPEing they are able  to get an easy win.   Saturday's game should be a war.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 03, 2011, 09:18:11 PM
Another strong defensive game for the Knights -- they scored 57 and held a feisty Adrian squad to 32, 8 points less than their previous season low. Also a new record for the fewest points scored by a Calvin opponent at Van Noord. The score was 50-18 when Calvin took out most of the starters for the last time, with about 10 minutes left.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: fannie on February 05, 2011, 06:26:37 PM
http://www.hollandsentinel.com/sports/x188778759/Liz-Ellis-Hope-womens-basketball-avenge-loss-to-Calvin

Things all tied up on top the girls side of the MIAA standings!

GO HOPE!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on February 05, 2011, 10:31:44 PM
Quote from: fannie on February 05, 2011, 06:26:37 PM
http://www.hollandsentinel.com/sports/x188778759/Liz-Ellis-Hope-womens-basketball-avenge-loss-to-Calvin


"Avenge loss..."

I'll say!!! From 1807 ATCF miles away, that looked more like a woodshed whooping, than an mere loss avenge!  :o

The MIAA should get two teams in the NCAA tournament, but Calvin will have to put up more than 48 to make any kind of run.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on February 07, 2011, 11:51:20 AM
Quote from: HopeConvert on January 18, 2011, 10:15:01 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 18, 2011, 09:46:44 PM
Good grief - Hope couldn't enjoy even 24 hours as #1 in the country!  I haven't yet seen a recap - did Carissa go crazy on 'em, or was it a total team victory?

Actually, Hope will still get to "enjoy" one week.

If I had to make a guess, the Damsels won't enjoy their trip to the DeVos.

Called it.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 07, 2011, 01:04:02 PM
3,433 attendance for the Hope/Calvin game.

Nice!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 07, 2011, 01:25:39 PM
After the loss in Grand Rapids I was worried that this year's edition of the Dutch were not equal to those of the last three years.  I was worried that perhaps they were not physical enough, were perhaps not as quick or maybe too dependent on one player when things got tough.

It looks like the loss was a wake up call and Saturday's game helped answer most of my questions. 

On offense the Dutch were not bothered by the Knights aggressive perimeter ball defense because they dribbled less, passed more crisply and moved much better away from the ball.  This opened up both driving and inside passing lanes.  The good ball movement also created just a little bit more time to look at the basket before taking the outside shot.

I thought it was the best defensive effort I have seen in any type of BB game in a long time.  Someone sitting near me wondered if Hope has implemented a new scheme or were playing a match up zone.  It appeared to me they were playing their traditional agressive man to man, but that the help rotation was almost perfect..

After Saturday's victory I am looking forward to the post-season and may break my personal policy of looking to far ahead and book my room in Bloomington soon.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on February 07, 2011, 01:56:59 PM
Quote from: WWWRHH on February 07, 2011, 01:25:39 PM
After Saturday's victory I am looking forward to the post-season and may break my personal policy of looking to far ahead and book my room in Bloomington soon.

I like your enthusiasm.  After the way the chips fell on Saturday, I would say you might also want to hold the weekend of March 4-5 as a possible travel date.  By the alternating year rule, I believe that if both the men's and women's teams make it to the NCAA tourney, the possibility of hosting at the DeVos would belong to the men's team. I'm not sure how the teams' respective regional rankings, etc. would play in that decision, but if past years teach us anything, we can assume there isn't much communication between the women's and men's tourney selection committees.  I wouldn't be surprised at all if the DeVos is virtually dormant that weekend.   ::)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 07, 2011, 03:19:02 PM
When Calvin won the first meeting they played about at their max. ability.  It wasn't the Hope team we have seen in recent meetings, and they proved that by roaring back on Sat.  Good job, great game.  Hard to over come 34 turnovers.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 07, 2011, 03:49:22 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on February 07, 2011, 01:56:59 PM
Quote from: WWWRHH on February 07, 2011, 01:25:39 PM
After Saturday's victory I am looking forward to the post-season and may break my personal policy of looking to far ahead and book my room in Bloomington soon.

I like your enthusiasm.  After the way the chips fell on Saturday, I would say you might also want to hold the weekend of March 4-5 as a possible travel date.  By the alternating year rule, I believe that if both the men's and women's teams make it to the NCAA tourney, the possibility of hosting at the DeVos would belong to the men's team. I'm not sure how the teams' respective regional rankings, etc. would play in that decision, but if past years teach us anything, we can assume there isn't much communication between the women's and men's tourney selection committees.  I wouldn't be surprised at all if the DeVos is virtually dormant that weekend.   ::)

Actually, I am pretty sure they do communicate on this issue. If only one of a school's basketball teams is seeded to host, it will do so.

By the way, the women have first-weekend hosting priority this season, not the men. In even years, it's reversed.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 07, 2011, 04:40:17 PM
The last regional poll suggests Hope won't have to worry about hosting.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: fannie on February 08, 2011, 08:56:55 AM
Could someone explain the regional ranking thing to me?  How is a team ranked 1-4 in the country and not 1 or 2 in the region???
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 08, 2011, 10:20:04 AM
Quote from: fannie on February 08, 2011, 08:56:55 AM
Could someone explain the regional ranking thing to me?  How is a team ranked 1-4 in the country and not 1 or 2 in the region???

The d3hoops.com poll and the NCAA regional poll's are independent of each other, the NCAA poll has very specific criteria to follow.  The d3hoops.com poll is an opinion poll.

There's a FAQ page around here somewhere that explains the NCAA criteria, if someone could find the link and post it that would be awesome.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 08, 2011, 11:09:46 AM
http://www.d3hoops.com/interactive/faq/
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 08, 2011, 05:09:06 PM
Hope's regional ranking is an issue every year and it has nothing to do with the quality of the program or the team's actual relative strength vs. other teams in the region.

It is primarily a strength of schedule issue based on the their opponents' winning percentage and, to some extent their opponents opponents winning percentage.  They play 19 games against conference opponents and most of the conference is consistently weak.  Excluding Hope and Calvin the combined conference record is 50  - 95 and against only non-conference teams it is 17 -41.  This year, St. Mary's is the only conference team (other than the Knights and Dutch) to have a winning record against non-conference opponents.  I am sure that it is hard for many of the players to get very excited about a mid-week road trip to Alma or Trine.

The D3 Hoops poll has consistently been more accurate than the regional rankings as a predictor of the Dutch post season performance but that is not going to change the reliance on a quantitative system that provides a consistently reasonalbe framework for evaluating teams that have few common opponents.

The Dutch and Knights are destined to play most first round tournament games on the road until the bottom five conference teams (and they are the same ones every year) become competitive outside the confernce.  And that is not going to happen anytime soon.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 13, 2011, 08:42:53 PM
It is now official.   The fashion community has discovered what Hope College fans have long known.  Orange is the color of choice for the sartorialist in the know.

Saturday's weekend Wall Street Journal reports, "In the Netherlands, orange is the official color of royalty.....Orange is also having a moment in the fashion zeitgeist....designers this spring have a particularyl high tolerance for orange's sweet-and-sour charms."

This may be the first time in my life that I have been cool enough to be ahead of a trend.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 13, 2011, 08:59:49 PM
Quote from: WWWRHH on February 13, 2011, 08:42:53 PM
It is now official.   The fashion community has discovered what Hope College fans have long known.  Orange is the color of choice for the sartorialist in the know.

Saturday's weekend Wall Street Journal reports, "In the Netherlands, orange is the official color of royalty.....Orange is also having a moment in the fashion zeitgeist....designers this spring have a particularyl high tolerance for orange's sweet-and-sour charms."

This may be the first time in my life that I have been cool enough to be ahead of a trend.


This is funny because on my drive home last night while flipping through the stations I stopped to hear a women complaining that she couldn't 'do' orange and that orange didn't look good on blondes.

I just laughed.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 14, 2011, 04:57:58 PM
It's about time to start listing our MVP and All MIAA selections isn't it?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 15, 2011, 02:17:13 PM
The MIAA MVP might avg just 20 minutes per MIAA contest.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 15, 2011, 03:08:43 PM
You might be right, but I recall last year when it didn't play out quite like some thought it might/should.  I listened to the Morehouse Hoopsville segment, and he has made his feelings quite well known.  Not sure if everyone in the MIAA will see things quite the way he does.
Looking at just the stats for the MIAA games, and like last year, there is more than a little room to give several players consideration. 
At this point I would tend to think we might well see co mvp's.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 15, 2011, 03:38:17 PM
This statement will seem a little extreme to some, but the only stats that matter in the MIAA are those achieved in the Hope Calvin games.  The gaps between these two teams and the rest of the conference is so wide stats in other games should be given about the same weight as those achieved in scrimmages against community college teams.

The MVP will be determined in the conference championship game and it will be awarded to the team leader of the victor even if her counterpart has better stats.

Carrie has a huge impact on the game even when she is not racking up big point totals because she demands so much attention from the opponents defence.  The fact that she doesn't particulary care about her personal totals makes it even harder to defend her because she does not force bad shots.

However, I do recognize that she has the luxury of not forcing shots or creating plays because her supporting cast is almost always better than the opponents other starters. 

The all conference team will not really be representative of the ten best players.  Each team is limited to two players on the first team and two on the second team meaning one of Hope's starters will not make all conference.

If  this post does not bring out the fans of some of the other schools nothing will  ;) and we will be back to discussing fashion trends.


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 15, 2011, 07:59:16 PM
We discussed this subject right up to the flogging ol' barney last year.  Go back to about page 140, and read the next 10 or 12 pages.  Lots of difference of opinion, and not sure we ever reached any sort of agreement on even what makes a MVP.
One has to consider the rest of the MIAA because their votes count the same as those of Hope, and Calvin, and I am sure each of those coaches has their own experience in how they have had to play all the other players on all the teams.
This is a quick look at some comparative stats for CS., and CV. YTD
Name,  Mpg,  fg%,   3 pt.%,  Reb/g,  blks, ft.%, stls, and pts.  14 games each.
CV        24.4  .590    .462     8.8       47    .870    26           256
CS        19.9  .492    .366     6.1       19    .762    23           177
09-10 for comparison
CV         26     .591     .357    8.6       60   .814      5            296     16 games
CS         17.6  .473     .217    6.4       23    .697    20           116       9 games

IMHO CS, and CV are the top two in the MIAA again this year.  Take CV away from Calvin and they struggle to finish 3rd or 4th.  Take CS away from Hope, and they are still right at the top. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 15, 2011, 08:33:28 PM
Quote from: realist on February 15, 2011, 07:59:16 PM
We discussed this subject right up to the flogging ol' barney last year.  Go back to about page 140, and read the next 10 or 12 pages.  Lots of difference of opinion, and not sure we ever reached any sort of agreement on even what makes a MVP.
One has to consider the rest of the MIAA because their votes count the same as those of Hope, and Calvin, and I am sure each of those coaches has their own experience in how they have had to play all the other players on all the teams.
This is a quick look at some comparative stats for CS., and CV. YTD
Name,  Mpg,  fg%,   3 pt.%,  Reb/g,  blks, ft.%, stls, and pts.  14 games each.
CV        24.4  .590    .462     8.8       47    .870    26           256
CS        19.9  .492    .366     6.1       19    .762    23           177
09-10 for comparison
CV         26     .591     .357    8.6       60   .814      5            296     16 games
CS         17.6  .473     .217    6.4       23    .697    20           116       9 games

IMHO CS, and CV are the top two in the MIAA again this year.  Take CV away from Calvin and they struggle to finish 3rd or 4th.  Take CS away from Hope, and they are still right at the top. 


And, now, of course, we could enter the discussion of whether those coaches' opinions should even be counted! ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ziggy on February 16, 2011, 09:04:04 AM
Quote from: realist on February 15, 2011, 07:59:16 PM

IMHO CS, and CV are the top two in the MIAA again this year.  Take CV away from Calvin and they struggle to finish 3rd or 4th.  Take CS away from Hope, and they are still right at the top. 


The definition of "valuable".

I really wish the league would do away with MVP in favor of an MOP. CV and CS are clearly the best two players in the league and deserve recognition beyond first team all-conference honors but one is certainly more "valuable" to her team than the other.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 16, 2011, 03:37:22 PM
Week 3 Regional Rankings are out: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2011/02/16/ncaa-2011-regional-rankings-week-3/
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 16, 2011, 03:39:11 PM
Great Lakes Region
1. Thomas More 22-0 23-0
2. Hope 19-1 22-1
3. Calvin 15-1 19-4
4. Denison 21-0 23-0
5. Hanover 20-1 21-1
6. DePauw 17-2 20-3

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 17, 2011, 10:56:08 AM
After last night CV is only 18 points away from reaching the 1,000 point mark in her career.  By the time she is done her name is going to be all over ther MIAA record book.

edited from 19 down to 18. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 17, 2011, 11:14:27 AM
Quote from: ziggy on February 16, 2011, 09:04:04 AM
Quote from: realist on February 15, 2011, 07:59:16 PM

IMHO CS, and CV are the top two in the MIAA again this year.  Take CV away from Calvin and they struggle to finish 3rd or 4th.  Take CS away from Hope, and they are still right at the top. 


The definition of "valuable".

I really wish the league would do away with MVP in favor of an MOP. CV and CS are clearly the best two players in the league and deserve recognition beyond first team all-conference honors but one is certainly more "valuable" to her team than the other.

This conference season, CV has been asked to play more minutes, take a higher percentage of her team's shots, she's been a more efficient scorer, she's grabbed a higher percentage of available rebounds, and certainly blocked a higher percentage of shots.

MOP and MVP.

They're two of the best players in the country, but CV is more valuable to her team's success, and she has the better stats.

Co-MVP's wouldn't be incorrect though.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 17, 2011, 12:07:46 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 17, 2011, 11:14:27 AM
Quote from: ziggy on February 16, 2011, 09:04:04 AM
Quote from: realist on February 15, 2011, 07:59:16 PM

IMHO CS, and CV are the top two in the MIAA again this year.  Take CV away from Calvin and they struggle to finish 3rd or 4th.  Take CS away from Hope, and they are still right at the top. 


The definition of "valuable".

I really wish the league would do away with MVP in favor of an MOP. CV and CS are clearly the best two players in the league and deserve recognition beyond first team all-conference honors but one is certainly more "valuable" to her team than the other.

This conference season, CV has been asked to play more minutes, take a higher percentage of her team's shots, she's been a more efficient scorer, she's grabbed a higher percentage of available rebounds, and certainly blocked a higher percentage of shots.

MOP and MVP.

They're two of the best players in the country, but CV is more valuable to her team's success, and she has the better stats.

Co-MVP's wouldn't be incorrect though.

Even adding in last nights game CV is actually playing about 1.25 minutes per game less this year.  Her rebound total is still near 8.8, and she needs 6 more blocks this year to equal last years total.   She has stepped up the number of steals she has this year, and has improved on 3 pt. shooting along with free throws.   Just like CS one can make a strong case that CV's numbers are lower than they might be were the competiton stronger in many games.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 17, 2011, 12:16:36 PM
Quote from: realist on February 17, 2011, 10:56:08 AM
After last night CV is only 19 points away from reaching the 1,000 point mark in her career.  By the time she is done her name is going to be all over ther MIAA record book. 

Correction: 18 points  :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 17, 2011, 12:43:10 PM
Thanks.  I was just coming to correct that.  18 it is,
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Out_Of_My_Kitchen on February 17, 2011, 04:06:21 PM
Tougher Region, Great Lakes or Central?

Both are loaded!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 17, 2011, 05:04:06 PM
OOMK:  Tough question.  Perhaps it is best to let the tournament play out, and see who comes out on top. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 17, 2011, 09:34:33 PM
Realist I agree with you.....but if sports fans only participated in informed, well reasoned discussions what would happen to sports talk radio or most D1 boards.

Perhaps that is the primary redeeming feature of D3 sports.

I will say that although there is a very high concentration of D3 schools on the east coast, it looks like the talent is currently concentrated in the center of the country.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 18, 2011, 10:50:44 AM
WWW.  My comment was not to stiffle conversation, but merely to point out there is no way at this time to even any kind of reasoned judgement.  The MIAA has two strong teams, and two of the top players in the country, and yes our region has good talent. 
One major advantage our area of the country has is perhaps better h.s. basketball.  a second major factor is the size of the players on the various rosters.  Few schools have many players 6'0" or taller, and to see a team with 6 or 7 players that size is more a mid-west thing. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Out_Of_My_Kitchen on February 18, 2011, 10:53:16 AM
It is a really tough question.  Times like this I wish the NCAA had more money in the budget to allow D3 tournament to run like a D1.  If things were like D1, I would expect at least 2 of the Final Four teams to come from these regions.  

I think another advantage to basketball in this part of the country is the lack of D1 teams in the area.  Towards the East there are many D1 schools.  Towards the Midwest they get spaced out more.  I am not sure if this observation is more perception or fact, but it was a reason I just thought of.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 18, 2011, 11:11:34 AM
OOMK  We have had a running discussion on the recruiting topic on the men's board for many years now.  One factor that comes up quite often is the competiton from the NAIA schools, along with the D2 schools.  If a family is struggling to send kids to college, and athletic $$ are offered it is hard to turn that down.
Many of the kids that Calvin, Hope, and some of the other MIAA schools get it is because of family ties, and what the schools have to offer.
One has to remember that each school decides for itself if it is going to be D1, D2 or D3 or go NAIA.  A major factor in making that decision is the $$ that are involved.  Schools pay a fee to be involved in the NCAA, and the NCAA is the sanctioning body and puts on the tournaments in the various sports.  The way the D1 tournament is structured it comes much closer to being a money making proposition than it ever will be at the D3 level.  D3 has expanded tremendously over the last 20 years as schools have dropped athletic $$ in NAIA to come into D3.  
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 18, 2011, 11:18:23 AM
Realist .....I was joking.  It was a good question and like you I did not have the info to make an informed judgement.  Just wanted to point out that in some circles lack of information would not stiffle a discussion - I am sure there are those that think it has not stopped me on occasion  :D.

Your height comment brought back a conversation I had in Kentucky a couple of years ago at sectionals.  On Saturday morning an Oglethorp parent approached us (it must have been the fashionable orange designer garments) and asked how Hope ended up with so many + 6 footers and where did a D3 school come up with a 6-3 (Snikkers) and 6-2 (Knox) starting post tandem.   I explained that many of the taller players were at least half Dutch ancestory.  He seemed incredulous that could possibly be a contributing factor.

Calvin and Hope's programs have been strengthened over the years by players that could very well have played at a "higher" level but chose those schools for reasons that go beyond basketball.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 18, 2011, 11:37:36 AM
Calvin's volleyball team last fall had 7 players 6'0" ot taller.  It was a much taller team than this years bball team.  The announcers at the final 8 kept commenting on how tall the team was, and also that fact 6 of the team had gone to the same h.s.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 19, 2011, 09:23:09 AM
Quote from: realist on February 18, 2011, 11:37:36 AM
Calvin's volleyball team last fall had 7 players 6'0" ot taller.  It was a much taller team than this years bball team.  The announcers at the final 8 kept commenting on how tall the team was, and also that fact 6 of the team had gone to the same h.s.

There aren't nearly as many schools that offer volleyball scholarships.

What's the tiebreaker rule for home court for the MIAA playoffs?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on February 19, 2011, 09:46:59 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 19, 2011, 09:23:09 AM
Quote from: realist on February 18, 2011, 11:37:36 AM
Calvin's volleyball team last fall had 7 players 6'0" ot taller.  It was a much taller team than this years bball team.  The announcers at the final 8 kept commenting on how tall the team was, and also that fact 6 of the team had gone to the same h.s.

There aren't nearly as many schools that offer volleyball scholarships.

What's the tiebreaker rule for home court for the MIAA playoffs?

I think this year it will come down to the school with the best trick shot video.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on February 19, 2011, 10:22:14 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 19, 2011, 09:23:09 AM
Quote from: realist on February 18, 2011, 11:37:36 AM
Calvin's volleyball team last fall had 7 players 6'0" ot taller.  It was a much taller team than this years bball team.  The announcers at the final 8 kept commenting on how tall the team was, and also that fact 6 of the team had gone to the same h.s.

There aren't nearly as many schools that offer volleyball scholarships.

What's the tiebreaker rule for home court for the MIAA playoffs?

If Calvin & Hope both win today, the tie-breaker is a coin flip. Not sure when that takes place.


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 19, 2011, 04:52:03 PM
Calvin  65  Trine 35  Looks like co-champs.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 19, 2011, 05:40:38 PM
Is there live TV coverage of this coin flip?
This is only the 4th co-championship in the leagues 32 seasons.


Hope's now won 4 MIAA titles in a row, and has had their hand on 10 of the last 12. :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 19, 2011, 05:54:53 PM
Not sure about the TV coveage, but the Calvin website has the toss later today.  Whatever that means.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 19, 2011, 05:56:34 PM
Almost forgot.  Congrats to Ms. Verkaik on reaching the 1,000 point mark after only two seasons. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 19, 2011, 06:03:35 PM
Looks like the Knights won the coin toss, miaa.org has them as the top seed.


First Round - Tuesday, February 22
#8 Kalamazoo (4-12, 5-19) at #1 Calvin (15-1, 21-4), 7:30 p.m.
#7 Adrian (4-12, 7-17) at #2 Hope (15-1, 24-1), 7:30 p.m.
#6 Trine (5-11, 7-17) at #3 Saint Mary's (11-5, 18-7), 7:30 p.m.
#5 Olivet (5-11, 6-18) at #4 Albion (11-5, 13-12), 7:30 p.m.

Semifinals - Thursday, February 24
Olivet-Albion winner vs. Kalamazoo-Calvin winner at higher seed, 7:30 p.m.
Trine-Saint Mary's winner vs. Adrian-Hope winner at higher seed, 7:30 p.m.

Championship - Saturday, February 26
Semifinal winners at highest remaining seed, 3 p.m.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on February 19, 2011, 07:08:54 PM
During senior day at Hope, unless I heard wrong,  the announcer said Carrie Snikkers is playing basketball overseas after graduation.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on February 19, 2011, 10:01:23 PM
Quote from: jspiii on February 19, 2011, 07:08:54 PM
During senior day at Hope, unless I heard wrong,  the announcer said Carrie Snikkers is playing basketball overseas after graduation.

You heard right.

Also, from the Hope Athletics website:
Coach Brian Morehouse's Dutch are MIAA co-champions with rival Calvin. Both teams finished 15-1 in the conference after splitting their head-to-head games. In a coin toss after the games, Calvin gained the top-seed for next week's conference tournament. Hope's senior class -- Erika Bruinsma, Miranda DeKuiper, Lauren Geers, Rachael Kutney and Carrie Snikkers -- posted an amazing 62-2 record against MIAA opponents during their careers and in home games at DeVos Fieldhouse were 63-0.

There you have it.   :'( :'(
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 19, 2011, 10:28:24 PM
Quote from: wwjjdd on February 19, 2011, 10:01:23 PM

... in home games at DeVos Fieldhouse were 63-0.



speechless
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Civic Minded on February 20, 2011, 06:56:19 PM
Quote from: realist on February 19, 2011, 05:56:34 PM
Almost forgot.  Congrats to Ms. Verkaik on reaching the 1,000 point mark after only two seasons. 

An amazing stat.  Congratulations to her!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ziggy on February 21, 2011, 10:42:48 AM
Quote from: Civic Minded on February 20, 2011, 06:56:19 PM
Quote from: realist on February 19, 2011, 05:56:34 PM
Almost forgot.  Congrats to Ms. Verkaik on reaching the 1,000 point mark after only two seasons. 

An amazing stat.  Congratulations to her!

The feat got some ink from the GR Press: http://www.mlive.com/smallcolleges/grandrapids/index.ssf/2011/02/calvins_carissa_verkaik_joins.html
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Out_Of_My_Kitchen on February 21, 2011, 12:44:17 PM
Quote from: wwjjdd on February 19, 2011, 10:01:23 PM
Quote from: jspiii on February 19, 2011, 07:08:54 PM
During senior day at Hope, unless I heard wrong,  the announcer said Carrie Snikkers is playing basketball overseas after graduation.

You heard right.

Also, from the Hope Athletics website:
Coach Brian Morehouse's Dutch are MIAA co-champions with rival Calvin. Both teams finished 15-1 in the conference after splitting their head-to-head games. In a coin toss after the games, Calvin gained the top-seed for next week's conference tournament. Hope's senior class -- Erika Bruinsma, Miranda DeKuiper, Lauren Geers, Rachael Kutney and Carrie Snikkers -- posted an amazing 62-2 record against MIAA opponents during their careers and in home games at DeVos Fieldhouse were 63-0.

There you have it.   :'( :'(

Looks like a big win on that coin flip for Calvin.  I didn't like there chances of going into Devos and doing something that hasn't been done in years!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 21, 2011, 02:34:11 PM
Technically all the coin toss did was determine the seedings.  Yes, Calvin won the toss, and is # 1.  However, the rules read all games after the first are at the higher remaining seed in each bracket.  I don't think any team can afford to "look past" any opponent, and that includes both Calvin and Hope.    I would agree that the odds they might meet again on Sat. are pretty good, but than I think Hope is a decided favorite.  At most the coin toss means the folks from Holland may get to enjoy a road trip.  :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 21, 2011, 03:26:48 PM
Last week;
Verkaik had:    48 pts, 16 rebounds, shot 20/24 for 83%, 8/9 ft's.
Snikkers had:  34 pts,  12 rebounds, shot 13/20 for 65%, 6/8 ft's.
Murphy   had:  39 pts,  20 rebounds, shot 14/29 for 48%  11/12 ft's.

Verkaik had 12 blocks, and played 52 minutes.  What does she have to do to get POW consideration? :)

edited to correct minutes played error on initial post
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on February 21, 2011, 04:53:41 PM
Quote from: realist on February 21, 2011, 03:26:48 PM
Last week;
Verkaik had:    48 pts, 16 rebounds, shot 20/24 for 83%, 8/9 ft's.
Snikkers had:  34 pts,  12 rebounds, shot 13/20 for 65%, 6/8 ft's.
Murphy   had:  39 pts,  20 rebounds, shot 14/29 for 48%  11/12 ft's.

Verkaik had 12 blocks, and played 45 minutes.  What does she have to do to get POW consideration? :)

Maybe they considered total minutes for each player's stats:

CV = 52
CS = 41
KM = 50

Just a thought.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 21, 2011, 05:34:49 PM
Quote from: gohope on February 21, 2011, 04:53:41 PM
Quote from: realist on February 21, 2011, 03:26:48 PM
Last week;
Verkaik had:    48 pts, 16 rebounds, shot 20/24 for 83%, 8/9 ft's.
Snikkers had:  34 pts,  12 rebounds, shot 13/20 for 65%, 6/8 ft's.
Murphy   had:  39 pts,  20 rebounds, shot 14/29 for 48%  11/12 ft's.

Verkaik had 12 blocks, and played 45 minutes.  What does she have to do to get POW consideration? :)

Maybe they considered total minutes for each player's stats:

CV = 52
CS = 41
KM = 50

Just a thought.

CV would still have more points, rebounds, and blocks per minute and a better shooting percentage...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ziggy on February 21, 2011, 08:13:46 PM
Quote from: realist on February 21, 2011, 03:26:48 PM
Last week;
Verkaik had:    48 pts, 16 rebounds, shot 20/24 for 83%, 8/9 ft's.
Snikkers had:  34 pts,  12 rebounds, shot 13/20 for 65%, 6/8 ft's.
Murphy   had:  39 pts,  20 rebounds, shot 14/29 for 48%  11/12 ft's.

Verkaik had 12 blocks, and played 52 minutes.  What does she have to do to get POW consideration? :)

edited to correct minutes played error on initial post

Perhaps this is one last tip of the cap to a great senior and foreshadowing that MVP honors are reserved for someone else...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 21, 2011, 09:41:51 PM
Quote from: ziggy on February 21, 2011, 08:13:46 PM
Quote from: realist on February 21, 2011, 03:26:48 PM
Last week;
Verkaik had:    48 pts, 16 rebounds, shot 20/24 for 83%, 8/9 ft's.
Snikkers had:  34 pts,  12 rebounds, shot 13/20 for 65%, 6/8 ft's.
Murphy   had:  39 pts,  20 rebounds, shot 14/29 for 48%  11/12 ft's.

Verkaik had 12 blocks, and played 52 minutes.  What does she have to do to get POW consideration? :)

edited to correct minutes played error on initial post

Perhaps this is one last tip of the cap to a great senior and foreshadowing that MVP honors are reserved for someone else...

Let's sure hope not.  Nothing against CS, but she is obviously not the MVP this year.  Without CV, Calvin is still a very good team, but not the same.  An MVP does not only play 15 minutes a game for their team.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 21, 2011, 09:44:36 PM
Quote from: realist on February 21, 2011, 03:26:48 PM
Last week;
Verkaik had:    48 pts, 16 rebounds, shot 20/24 for 83%, 8/9 ft's.
Snikkers had:  34 pts,  12 rebounds, shot 13/20 for 65%, 6/8 ft's.
Murphy   had:  39 pts,  20 rebounds, shot 14/29 for 48%  11/12 ft's.

Verkaik had 12 blocks, and played 52 minutes.  What does she have to do to get POW consideration? :)

edited to correct minutes played error on initial post

Also, I agree with realist here.  What does it take?  CV's stats show the better week and she too helped her team clinch the conference title.  Plus she reached the 1,000 point mark as a sophomore this week.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 21, 2011, 09:58:40 PM
Is anybody sure she was nominated?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 22, 2011, 10:29:09 AM
Quote from: sac on February 21, 2011, 09:58:40 PM
Is anybody sure she was nominated?

When I made my initial post yesterday I wasn't sure what the selection process is.  Thanks to several poster I now know more than I did than.  Looking at the selections for the year I sort of assumed (I know very dangerous) a committee of some sort looked at the stat sheets, and determined worthy receipients. 

Considering the week she had I don't understand why she wouldn't have been nominated.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 22, 2011, 10:00:25 PM
#2 Hope 103, #7 Adrian 42

http://www.miaa.org/wbb/stats/1011/0222adri.htm

Yeesh!!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 22, 2011, 11:01:13 PM
Other than #6 Trine defeating #3 St. Marys no real surprises tonight.  Looking at the box scores it looks like both Hope and Calvin pretty much had their way with Adrian and Kalamazoo.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on February 22, 2011, 11:57:10 PM
Hope and Calvin both showed why they dominated the league tonight.  But there's one glaring difference on the stat sheets: turnovers.  Hope was relatively stingy with the ball, committing only 13 TOs, while turning Adrian over 27 times.  Just looking at the score you might guess it would be something like that.  I was really surprised when I looked over the Calvin/Kzoo stats, however, that Calvin committed 23 while Kzoo only had 15.  Even more surprising is that most of Calvin's TOs (16) came from the starters.  (Hope's starters combined for 3.)  This seems uncharacteristic of the Lady Knights.

Can anyone who was at the VanNoord shed some light on this?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 23, 2011, 06:02:28 AM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on February 22, 2011, 11:57:10 PM
Hope and Calvin both showed why they dominated the league tonight.  But there's one glaring difference on the stat sheets: turnovers.  Hope was relatively stingy with the ball, committing only 13 TOs, while turning Adrian over 27 times.  Just looking at the score you might guess it would be something like that.  I was really surprised when I looked over the Calvin/Kzoo stats, however, that Calvin committed 23 while Kzoo only had 15.  Even more surprising is that most of Calvin's TOs (16) came from the starters.  (Hope's starters combined for 3.)  This seems uncharacteristic of the Lady Knights.

Can anyone who was at the VanNoord shed some light on this?

Kzoo played hard on defense and got some legitimate steals, but Calvin made a bunch of weak passes into the post or cross court that Kzoo was able to pick off.

Turnovers have been Calvin's achilles heel this season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on February 23, 2011, 07:45:01 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 23, 2011, 06:02:28 AM
Kzoo played hard on defense and got some legitimate steals, but Calvin made a bunch of weak passes into the post or cross court that Kzoo was able to pick off.

Turnovers have been Calvin's achilles heel this season.


Thanks, DK.  Sounds like Kzoo did their homework the way Albion's men did on Hope's men last week.  Their turnovers were of the weak passes variety as well.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 23, 2011, 08:13:25 AM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on February 23, 2011, 07:45:01 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 23, 2011, 06:02:28 AM
Kzoo played hard on defense and got some legitimate steals, but Calvin made a bunch of weak passes into the post or cross court that Kzoo was able to pick off.

Turnovers have been Calvin's achilles heel this season.


Thanks, DK.  Sounds like Kzoo did their homework the way Albion's men did on Hope's men last week.  Their turnovers were of the weak passes variety as well.

To be fair, I guess one should balance Calvin's high number of turnovers with the high field goal percentage (56.6% for this game) -- post entry passes are more likely to be picked off but they result in a high likelihood of scoring.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 23, 2011, 10:49:08 AM
Quote from: sac on February 22, 2011, 10:00:25 PM
#2 Hope 103, #7 Adrian 42

http://www.miaa.org/wbb/stats/1011/0222adri.htm

Yeesh!!!!

Pretty impressive to see every player score, all but 1 have a rebound, and all but 2 have an assist. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on February 23, 2011, 12:22:20 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 23, 2011, 08:13:25 AM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on February 23, 2011, 07:45:01 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 23, 2011, 06:02:28 AM
Kzoo played hard on defense and got some legitimate steals, but Calvin made a bunch of weak passes into the post or cross court that Kzoo was able to pick off.

Turnovers have been Calvin's achilles heel this season.


Thanks, DK.  Sounds like Kzoo did their homework the way Albion's men did on Hope's men last week.  Their turnovers were of the weak passes variety as well.

To be fair, I guess one should balance Calvin's high number of turnovers with the high field goal percentage (56.6% for this game) -- post entry passes are more likely to be picked off but they result in a high likelihood of scoring.


True.  And with a center like Verkaik, it's hard to argue with a game plan involving lots of post entry passes.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 23, 2011, 04:30:10 PM
Final Regional Rankings before Selection Sunday: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/category/ncaa-stuff/regional-rankings/
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 24, 2011, 02:22:26 PM
Looks like Hope will get the chance to play most of the players again tonight.
Calvin looks to have the tougher game.  I would expect a game more like the first one back on 12/18 with Calvin winning by 8.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 24, 2011, 09:05:15 PM
Calvin  63  A;bion  36
Hope   66  Trine     47

Big show down at the VNA on Sat.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on February 24, 2011, 10:48:22 PM
Trine still only had 2 points with 7 minutes left in the first half. Hope looked largely disinterested once they realized they weren't going to hold Trine to single digit scoring. The final score was not an indication of how badly outclassed Trine was.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 25, 2011, 10:39:45 AM
Thanks. HC I wondered about that watching the live stats.  The only problem with being so dominant is it must be tough developing the mental toughness the tournament requires.
In this mornings Calvin sports release they mentioned CV is now over 500 on career rebounds.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 25, 2011, 11:01:26 AM
So does Calvin need to win to get in the NCAA tournament?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 25, 2011, 11:27:17 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 25, 2011, 11:01:26 AM
So does Calvin need to win to get in the NCAA tournament?

I wouldn't think so.

They'd be sporting a 0.905 win percentage and a 0.490ish SOS.

I'm not as intimate with the details of the Women's selection, but a WP on the plus side of 0.900 will get you in despite a not-great SOS.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 25, 2011, 01:09:00 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 25, 2011, 11:27:17 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 25, 2011, 11:01:26 AM
So does Calvin need to win to get in the NCAA tournament?

I wouldn't think so.

They'd be sporting a 0.905 win percentage and a 0.490ish SOS.

I'm not as intimate with the details of the Women's selection, but a WP on the plus side of 0.900 will get you in despite a not-great SOS.

Here are the final regional rankings:
Great Lakes
1. Thomas More 24-0 25-0
2. Hope 22-1 24-1
3. Denison 23-0 25-0
4. Hanover 22-1 23-1
5. Calvin 17-1 21-4
6. DePauw 19-2 22-3


If Hope does manage to win the MIAA tournament, that would leave three teams ahead of Calvin in the regional rankings. How many of those three would have to be upset in their respective tournaments or otherwise not make Pool A to knock Calvin out of Pool C?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 25, 2011, 01:14:40 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 25, 2011, 11:27:17 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 25, 2011, 11:01:26 AM
So does Calvin need to win to get in the NCAA tournament?

I wouldn't think so.

They'd be sporting a 0.905 win percentage and a 0.490ish SOS.

I'm not as intimate with the details of the Women's selection, but a WP on the plus side of 0.900 will get you in despite a not-great SOS.

Thanks - right in line with my thinking.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 26, 2011, 10:36:20 AM
Massey has Hope as a 4-5 point favorite (65% chance of winning) for the conference title showdown at Van Noord this afternoon.

Can Calvin keep turnovers under control? The knights had 21 of them in their earlier victory against Hope and 34 in their loss -- 9 more than the high in other games this season. Calvin's 48 points that game were a season low.

Or will Calvin's defense be able to repeat what it did to Hope in the first meeting, leaving them gassed and with only 20 points to show for the first half of play?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on February 26, 2011, 03:18:02 PM
At the 10 min mark they are both holding Hope to a possible 18 pt half, and are looking at 36 TO for the game...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 26, 2011, 03:19:42 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 26, 2011, 10:36:20 AM

Can Calvin keep turnovers under control?

Or will Calvin's defense be able to repeat what it did to Hope in the first meeting, leaving them gassed and with only 20 points to show for the first half of play?


From my viewing of the online stream, that appears to be the strategy. Calvin is pushing the tempo quite a bit. More possessions will lead to more turnovers but I suspect John Ross is willing to accept the tradeoff. Creative and gutsy; we'll see if it works.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on February 26, 2011, 03:27:42 PM
 ::) A timeout 5 points ago would have been nice...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 26, 2011, 03:29:28 PM
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on February 26, 2011, 03:27:42 PM
::) A timeout 5 points ago would have been nice...

That delay was a mystery to me too.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on February 26, 2011, 03:38:46 PM
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on February 26, 2011, 03:18:02 PM
At the 10 min mark they are both holding Hope to a possible 18 pt half, and are looking at 36 TO for the game...

Close... 23 at the half, with a pace for 3o TO for the game...

If Hope can shoot a little better in the second half, they may have a chance to get back in this. Calvin has been lights out.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on February 26, 2011, 03:50:42 PM
Based on the two previous meetings, Hope has to have a better 2nd half than both of those games. If they match either, they'll lose by 1. But if they score their better second half score and hold Calvin to their lesser second half score, they win by 1.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on February 26, 2011, 03:57:20 PM
ugh... not a good start!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on February 26, 2011, 03:59:09 PM
They better keep these two teams FAR apart in the NCAA tourny.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 26, 2011, 03:59:28 PM
It takes a 13-2 start to the second half for the Knights before Morehouse calls a timeout? ???
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on February 26, 2011, 04:00:54 PM
Is that confidence??? I don't get it. This is a deep hole.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 26, 2011, 04:07:53 PM
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on February 26, 2011, 04:00:54 PM
Is that confidence??? I don't get it. This is a deep hole.

I don't get it either. Morehouse is a fine coach but his teams have been so good for so long maybe he's forgotten how to coach when his team is really struggling.

Meanwhile John Ross is calling his second timeout in the last couple of minutes in an effort to blunt the Hope comeback.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on February 26, 2011, 04:41:56 PM
WOW!!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 26, 2011, 04:42:28 PM
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on February 26, 2011, 04:42:56 PM
so close... See ya all in the big dance
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 26, 2011, 05:26:21 PM
Wow, I think that was the most exciting women's game with the best atmosphere I've been to. It had everything -- great defense, a 20-point lead overcome, lots of lead changes, a three-pointer at the buzzer to win the game. There were many points when you couldn't hear the announcer or the game buzzer for the crowd noise.

Jill Thomas!  A half-court three pointer was a key part of Calvin's victory in the first matchup, and today it was a trey at the buzzer, three for four on the game.

The matchup of two of the best centers in D-III -- maybe the two best -- was really fun to watch. Verkaik mostly handled Snikkers' post game -- she had only three 2-point buckets for the game -- but Snikkers hit some threes and drew some fouls, ending with 22 points. Verkaik never ceases to amaze. A 6'2" center who can dribble-drive through the defense and make the layup? With either hand? She ended up with 29 points on 10/14 shooting, with 8 rebounds and 5 blocks. Definitely MVP.


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 26, 2011, 05:57:57 PM
Wow, is right 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 26, 2011, 10:42:34 PM
Great game today at VNA.  One of the best games I've ever seen.  It had it all - tight start, big lead, good comeback, great finish.  Congratulations to the Lady Knights!  I can see both of these teams making a big impact on the NCAA tournament.

Too bad Hope's team didn't have enough class to stick around for the award ceremony.  It looked a bit awkward when only their coach decided he better come back and watch after he had gone in also.  I guess they don't know how to handle themselves when they are on the other side of a championship game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on February 26, 2011, 11:00:17 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 26, 2011, 10:42:34 PM
Great game today at VNA.  One of the best games I've ever seen.  It had it all - tight start, big lead, good comeback, great finish.  Congratulations to the Lady Knights!  I can see both of these teams making a big impact on the NCAA tournament.

Too bad Hope's team didn't have enough class to stick around for the award ceremony.  It looked a bit awkward when only their coach decided he better come back and watch after he had gone in also.  I guess they don't know how to handle themselves when they are on the other side of a championship game.
I agree that this was a great women's game--for me, second only to Hope's first national championship game (also coming from 20 points behind) as the most exciting women's game I've ever played.  A great comeback for Hope (a 24 to 12 turnover advantage almost offset shooting only 30% to Calvin's 49%, not to mention 60% on 3's).  Moreover, with Hope fans seeming to be 60% or more of the crowd, it almost felt like a home game for Hope.  (Way to go, Hope supporters.)

Kudos to Calvin and to Carissa Verkaik--an awesome player, whose blocks and intimidation helped account for Hope's low shooting percentage, though Hope seemed to feel more comfortable in the second half . . . and would surely welcome a rematch.

I have to wonder what the outcome would have been if the Calvin timer hadn't forgotten to stop the clock after Hope's basket with 9 seconds left.  Calvin was out of time outs, and stuck in the back court with 7 seconds left when the ref stopped play, reset the clock to 9 seconds, and gave Calvin a chance to reset their offense (after a Hope timeout allowed both teams to set their strategy).  Even so, kudos also to Jill Thomas for a buzzer-beater, heart-stabber from behind what would have been an NBA line.  I would have put better odds on Carrie's last second shot from the top of the ky back in January.

For the record, the Hope women did come back out for the Calvin trophy presentation.  When the Hope men received their trophy, the Calvin men were in the locker room . . . but that seemed fine.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on February 26, 2011, 11:07:48 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 26, 2011, 10:42:34 PM
Great game today at VNA.  One of the best games I've ever seen.  It had it all - tight start, big lead, good comeback, great finish.  Congratulations to the Lady Knights!  I can see both of these teams making a big impact on the NCAA tournament.

Too bad Hope's team didn't have enough class to stick around for the award ceremony.  It looked a bit awkward when only their coach decided he better come back and watch after he had gone in also.  I guess they don't know how to handle themselves when they are on the other side of a championship game.

Hope lost a tough game.  I have no problem with them leaving the floor. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 26, 2011, 11:15:29 PM
Quote from: pointlem on February 26, 2011, 11:00:17 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 26, 2011, 10:42:34 PM
Great game today at VNA.  One of the best games I've ever seen.  It had it all - tight start, big lead, good comeback, great finish.  Congratulations to the Lady Knights!  I can see both of these teams making a big impact on the NCAA tournament.

Too bad Hope's team didn't have enough class to stick around for the award ceremony.  It looked a bit awkward when only their coach decided he better come back and watch after he had gone in also.  I guess they don't know how to handle themselves when they are on the other side of a championship game.
I agree that this was a great women's game--for me, second only to Hope's first national championship game (also coming from 20 points behind) as the most exciting women's game I've ever played.  A great comeback for Hope (a 24 to 12 turnover advantage almost offset shooting only 30% to Calvin's 49%, not to mention 60% on 3's).  Moreover, with Hope fans seeming to be 60% or more of the crowd, it almost felt like a home game for Hope.  (Way to go, Hope supporters.)

Kudos to Calvin and to Carissa Verkaik--an awesome player, whose blocks and intimidation helped account for Hope's low shooting percentage, though Hope seemed to feel more comfortable in the second half . . . and would surely welcome a rematch.

I have to wonder what the outcome would have been if the Calvin timer hadn't forgotten to stop the clock after Hope's basket with 9 seconds left.  Calvin was out of time outs, and stuck in the back court with 7 seconds left when the ref stopped play, reset the clock to 9 seconds, and gave Calvin a chance to reset their offense (after a Hope timeout allowed both teams to set their strategy).  Even so, kudos also to Jill Thomas for a buzzer-beater, heart-stabber from behind what would have been an NBA line.  I would have put better odds on Carrie's last second shot from the top of the ky back in January.

For the record, the Hope women did come back out for the Calvin trophy presentation.  When the Hope men received their trophy, the Calvin men were in the locker room . . . but that seemed fine.

I feel that this is an irrelevant point considering Morehouse decided to take a timeout right then.  If he didn't, then yes this could have changed things.  Why would you call a timeout to give Calvin a chance to draw something up?

I stand corrected, there were about 5 of them who did.  Disappointing to hear the Calvin men did that.  I may be old school but I think it's important to show respect, win or lose.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on February 27, 2011, 12:08:00 AM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 26, 2011, 10:42:34 PM
Great game today at VNA.  One of the best games I've ever seen.  It had it all - tight start, big lead, good comeback, great finish.  Congratulations to the Lady Knights!  I can see both of these teams making a big impact on the NCAA tournament.

Too bad Hope's team didn't have enough class to stick around for the award ceremony.  It looked a bit awkward when only their coach decided he better come back and watch after he had gone in also.  I guess they don't know how to handle themselves when they are on the other side of a championship game.

This is a ridiculous comment.  Show me the game when Calvin stays out for Hope to receive accolades.  You want to talk about how the Hope women handle themselves after being on the "other side" of a championship game, look at the video of last year's national tournament championship and the interviews afterward.  Besides, the Calvin men's and KVS's conspicuous absence after their loss nullifies what you have to say here.  Your uninformed opinion and snide remarks only make the Lady Knights' well-earned victory seem a bit less than what it should be. 

I say congratulations to the Calvin women today for their hard-fought win; congratulations to the Hope women for an excellent season and keep your chins up, you are and always have been graceful both in victory and defeat; congratulations to the Hope men on securing the MIAA bid for the national tournament; and congratulations to the Calvin men, especially the seniors, for another winning season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on February 27, 2011, 12:16:03 AM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 26, 2011, 11:15:29 PM
I feel that this is an irrelevant point considering Morehouse decided to take a timeout right then.  If he didn't, then yes this could have changed things.  Why would you call a timeout to give Calvin a chance to draw something up?

I stand corrected, there were about 5 of them who did.  Disappointing to hear the Calvin men did that.  I may be old school but I think it's important to show respect, win or lose.

Get a grip.  Morehouse only called a timeout because the officials gave Calvin plenty of time to set up their play with the amount of time they took to have the clock reset to 9.  The Hope defensive plan kept the ball out of Calvin's leading scorer when a 2 would have won it.  As was correctly pointed out to me, forcing a long 3 at the buzzer more often than not, would have given Hope the win.  Also, only 5 players?  You need to learn to count.  Take your own advice and show some respect.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on February 27, 2011, 11:57:15 AM
Quote from: pointlem on February 26, 2011, 11:00:17 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 26, 2011, 10:42:34 PM
Great game today at VNA.  One of the best games I've ever seen.  It had it all - tight start, big lead, good comeback, great finish.  Congratulations to the Lady Knights!  I can see both of these teams making a big impact on the NCAA tournament.

Too bad Hope's team didn't have enough class to stick around for the award ceremony.  It looked a bit awkward when only their coach decided he better come back and watch after he had gone in also.  I guess they don't know how to handle themselves when they are on the other side of a championship game.
I agree that this was a great women's game--for me, second only to Hope's first national championship game (also coming from 20 points behind) as the most exciting women's game I've ever played.  A great comeback for Hope (a 24 to 12 turnover advantage almost offset shooting only 30% to Calvin's 49%, not to mention 60% on 3's).  Moreover, with Hope fans seeming to be 60% or more of the crowd, it almost felt like a home game for Hope.  (Way to go, Hope supporters.)

Kudos to Calvin and to Carissa Verkaik--an awesome player, whose blocks and intimidation helped account for Hope's low shooting percentage, though Hope seemed to feel more comfortable in the second half . . . and would surely welcome a rematch.

I have to wonder what the outcome would have been if the Calvin timer hadn't forgotten to stop the clock after Hope's basket with 9 seconds left.  Calvin was out of time outs, and stuck in the back court with 7 seconds left when the ref stopped play, reset the clock to 9 seconds, and gave Calvin a chance to reset their offense (after a Hope timeout allowed both teams to set their strategy).  Even so, kudos also to Jill Thomas for a buzzer-beater, heart-stabber from behind what would have been an NBA line.  I would have put better odds on Carrie's last second shot from the top of the ky back in January.

For the record, the Hope women did come back out for the Calvin trophy presentation.  When the Hope men received their trophy, the Calvin men were in the locker room . . . but that seemed fine.

The NCAA has gotten very loose with its eligibility requirements.  ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on February 27, 2011, 12:56:47 PM
For a video of Calvin's winning play, see:

http://www.mlive.com/smallcolleges/grandrapids/index.ssf/2011/02/video_shows_calvins_buzzer_bea.html

It's a well-designed play, I must say. Not sure how often she makes a shot like that, but kudos to her for doing so.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on February 27, 2011, 01:21:56 PM
We all know Mo recruits well and will, I'm sure, be ready to reload next year after losing his all-American and her four fellow senior teammates, but...

I wondered out-loud last night if Calvin might benefit from the "home court/home town" advantage the next two years at DeVos for the NCAA tournament.

This is obviously WAY early for any speculation, but wonder if this has come up in conversation outside this board?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 27, 2011, 01:38:57 PM
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on February 27, 2011, 01:21:56 PM
We all know Mo recruits well and will, I'm sure, be ready to reload next year after losing his all-American and her four fellow senior teammates, but...

I wondered out-loud last night if Calvin might benefit from the "home court/home town" advantage the next two years at DeVos for the NCAA tournament.This is obviously WAY early for any speculation, but wonder if this has come up in conversation outside this board?

I sure would like it to come to pass next year that Calvin makes it to Holland for the finals.  However, we have lots of ball to play yet this year.
Frankly I see Calvin having an advantagee next year, but have been around too long not to knowe Hope will be a major player.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on February 27, 2011, 02:36:59 PM
Quote from: HopeConvert on February 27, 2011, 11:57:15 AM
Quote from: pointlem on February 26, 2011, 11:00:17 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 26, 2011, 10:42:34 PM
Great game today at VNA.  One of the best games I've ever seen.  It had it all - tight start, big lead, good comeback, great finish.  Congratulations to the Lady Knights!  I can see both of these teams making a big impact on the NCAA tournament.

Too bad Hope's team didn't have enough class to stick around for the award ceremony.  It looked a bit awkward when only their coach decided he better come back and watch after he had gone in also.  I guess they don't know how to handle themselves when they are on the other side of a championship game.
I agree that this was a great women's game--for me, second only to Hope's first national championship game (also coming from 20 points behind) as the most exciting women's game I've ever played.  A great comeback for Hope (a 24 to 12 turnover advantage almost offset shooting only 30% to Calvin's 49%, not to mention 60% on 3's).  Moreover, with Hope fans seeming to be 60% or more of the crowd, it almost felt like a home game for Hope.  (Way to go, Hope supporters.)

Kudos to Calvin and to Carissa Verkaik--an awesome player, whose blocks and intimidation helped account for Hope's low shooting percentage, though Hope seemed to feel more comfortable in the second half . . . and would surely welcome a rematch.

I have to wonder what the outcome would have been if the Calvin timer hadn't forgotten to stop the clock after Hope's basket with 9 seconds left.  Calvin was out of time outs, and stuck in the back court with 7 seconds left when the ref stopped play, reset the clock to 9 seconds, and gave Calvin a chance to reset their offense (after a Hope timeout allowed both teams to set their strategy).  Even so, kudos also to Jill Thomas for a buzzer-beater, heart-stabber from behind what would have been an NBA line.  I would have put better odds on Carrie's last second shot from the top of the ky back in January.

For the record, the Hope women did come back out for the Calvin trophy presentation.  When the Hope men received their trophy, the Calvin men were in the locker room . . . but that seemed fine.

The NCAA has gotten very loose with its eligibility requirements.  ;)
Woops! . . . though, on second thought, research on the brain's "mirror neurons" (which fire when we observe others performing actions, as if we were performing them) suggests that, neurologically, I probably was playing as well as watching these games.   ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 27, 2011, 03:02:01 PM
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on February 27, 2011, 01:21:56 PM

I wondered out-loud last night if Calvin might benefit from the "home court/home town" advantage the next two years at DeVos for the NCAA tournament.


We can only Hope. ;) :D

Quote from: NW Hope Fan on February 27, 2011, 01:21:56 PM
We all know Mo recruits well and will, I'm sure, be ready to reload next year after losing his all-American and her four fellow senior teammates, but...


Our friends in Holland shouldn't be surprised how much different things will be without Snikkers, three other starters, and an important sub--but especially without Snikkers. Carrie is a one-in-a-generation kind of talent, much like Mark Veenstra and Steve Honderd were on the men's side when they played for Calvin. You just don't reload those kinds of players. Hope will be a good team, but not a dominant team next year while Calvin should be the clear favorite in the conference.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 27, 2011, 04:21:27 PM
Quote from: oldknight on February 27, 2011, 03:02:01 PM
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on February 27, 2011, 01:21:56 PM

I wondered out-loud last night if Calvin might benefit from the "home court/home town" advantage the next two years at DeVos for the NCAA tournament.


We can only Hope. ;) :D

Quote from: NW Hope Fan on February 27, 2011, 01:21:56 PM
We all know Mo recruits well and will, I'm sure, be ready to reload next year after losing his all-American and her four fellow senior teammates, but...


Our friends in Holland shouldn't be surprised how much different things will be without Snikkers, three other starters, and an important sub--but especially without Snikkers. Carrie is a one-in-a-generation kind of talent, much like Mark Veenstra and Steve Honderd were on the men's side when they played for Calvin. You just don't reload those kinds of players. Hope will be a good team, but not a dominant team next year while Calvin should be the clear favorite in the conference.

Considering the already great program that CS joined I am afraid we will never really know how good a player she might have been.  Unlike you I think Hope is going to miss her 4 teammates more than CS.  Take any one of the 5 away, and Hope is still great. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on February 27, 2011, 05:23:14 PM
Quote from: realist on February 27, 2011, 04:21:27 PM
Quote from: oldknight on February 27, 2011, 03:02:01 PM
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on February 27, 2011, 01:21:56 PM

I wondered out-loud last night if Calvin might benefit from the "home court/home town" advantage the next two years at DeVos for the NCAA tournament.


We can only Hope. ;) :D

Quote from: NW Hope Fan on February 27, 2011, 01:21:56 PM
We all know Mo recruits well and will, I'm sure, be ready to reload next year after losing his all-American and her four fellow senior teammates, but...


Our friends in Holland shouldn't be surprised how much different things will be without Snikkers, three other starters, and an important sub--but especially without Snikkers. Carrie is a one-in-a-generation kind of talent, much like Mark Veenstra and Steve Honderd were on the men's side when they played for Calvin. You just don't reload those kinds of players. Hope will be a good team, but not a dominant team next year while Calvin should be the clear favorite in the conference.

Considering the already great program that CS joined I am afraid we will never really know how good a player she might have been.  Unlike you I think Hope is going to miss her 4 teammates more than CS.  Take any one of the 5 away, and Hope is still great. 
As a devotee of the Hope women's program since Morehouse's teams started to show greatness, I can tell you that while each of the seniors will be missed, the team will redefine itself with current and new players, and will prove its strength is built upon a culture of team vs. individual.. CS is a special player and an outstanding individual, but there are others who have also contributed and others that will continue to, and the high level of play coming from Holland will carry on as it has through the coming and going of many great players.  I could list them, but you could all come up with a few on your own, and that will suffice for now...I am being dragged out the door.   ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 27, 2011, 06:33:33 PM
Have any of the Snikkers ever reveal how old Tom was before he could beat Carrie? ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: fannie on February 27, 2011, 06:48:44 PM
Any guesses on NCAA bid for Hope - where, when, if they even get a bid etc????  How about Calvin - where????
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 27, 2011, 06:52:01 PM
Quote from: fannie on February 27, 2011, 06:48:44 PM
Any guesses on NCAA bid for Hope - where, when, if they even get a bid etc????  How about Calvin - where????

They are a 100% lock to get a C, but I haven't the foggiest where they will be sent.  If they had won the AQ, I'd estimate it at 85-90% certain they would have hosted.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: fannie on February 27, 2011, 06:53:51 PM
Any chance Calvin might host???
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: GoKnights68 on February 27, 2011, 07:07:00 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on February 27, 2011, 12:08:00 AM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 26, 2011, 10:42:34 PM
Great game today at VNA.  One of the best games I've ever seen.  It had it all - tight start, big lead, good comeback, great finish.  Congratulations to the Lady Knights!  I can see both of these teams making a big impact on the NCAA tournament.

Too bad Hope's team didn't have enough class to stick around for the award ceremony.  It looked a bit awkward when only their coach decided he better come back and watch after he had gone in also.  I guess they don't know how to handle themselves when they are on the other side of a championship game.

This is a ridiculous comment.  Show me the game when Calvin stays out for Hope to receive accolades.  You want to talk about how the Hope women handle themselves after being on the "other side" of a championship game, look at the video of last year's national tournament championship and the interviews afterward.  Besides, the Calvin men's and KVS's conspicuous absence after their loss nullifies what you have to say here.  Your uninformed opinion and snide remarks only make the Lady Knights' well-earned victory seem a bit less than what it should be. 

I say congratulations to the Calvin women today for their hard-fought win; congratulations to the Hope women for an excellent season and keep your chins up, you are and always have been graceful both in victory and defeat; congratulations to the Hope men on securing the MIAA bid for the national tournament; and congratulations to the Calvin men, especially the seniors, for another winning season.

You don't need to degrade the Calvin's men's basketball that bad by congratulating them for just having a winning record.  They didn't have a good season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 27, 2011, 07:10:57 PM
Quote from: fannie on February 27, 2011, 06:53:51 PM
Any chance Calvin might host???

They have a very gaudy regional winning %, but a quite modest SoS.  A huge arena can't hurt! ;)  Depending on who the other options are, I'd guess a better than 50-50 chance they host.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: fannie on February 27, 2011, 07:40:30 PM
Thanks Mr. Ypsi - one more question - any chance Hope girls host????
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ziggy on February 27, 2011, 07:43:51 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 27, 2011, 07:10:57 PM
Quote from: fannie on February 27, 2011, 06:53:51 PM
Any chance Calvin might host???

They have a very gaudy regional winning %, but a quite modest SoS.  A huge arena can't hurt! ;)  Depending on who the other options are, I'd guess a better than 50-50 chance they host.

It looks like there is chance that Calvin could end the season as the #2 ranked team in the great lakes.

Calvin's problem is their SOS but that is also the case for Denison and Hanover so getting that second win over Hope could jump them up the rankings. Hope has a decent SOS but is now at a distinct head to head disadvantage to the Knights.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on February 27, 2011, 08:37:12 PM
Quote from: HopeConvert on February 27, 2011, 12:56:47 PM
For a video of Calvin's winning play, see:

http://www.mlive.com/smallcolleges/grandrapids/index.ssf/2011/02/video_shows_calvins_buzzer_bea.html

It's a well-designed play, I must say. Not sure how often she makes a shot like that, but kudos to her for doing so.

Interesting to watch.  In the first meeting at Van Noord, Snikkers took the shot and Thomas got in her face and stood tall to try to obstruct the shot.  In the rematch, Thomas took the shot and Snikkers drifted over to defend but was just a step late in getting there.  Had she made it quicker, her height certainly would have been intimidating.  Same two people involved in the buzzer shot in both games.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 27, 2011, 08:43:25 PM
Quote from: fannie on February 27, 2011, 07:40:30 PM
Thanks Mr. Ypsi - one more question - any chance Hope girls host????

IMO, VERY slight.  Pool C teams rarely host, and, with Calvin and Hope so near to each other, they would NOT import teams to Michigan for TWO 'pods' (and Calvin gets the nod if Michigan gets even one).  While I'm not nearly as familiar with the women's history as with the men's, I'll stick my neck out and predict Calvin hosts, while Hope gets sent to the Chicago area (VERY broadly defined ;)).  

[But, geez, don't send 'em to Bloomington - if Hope and IWU meet it should not be before at least round 4!  I always wanted to see a Snikkers/Solari showdown, but it is too late - Christina Solari graduated last May.]
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Out_Of_My_Kitchen on February 27, 2011, 09:49:35 PM
It is going to be very interesting to see what the NCAA does with Hope.  Obviously one of the first teams, if not the first team, to get a Pool C, they will most likely have to be on the road.  Last years 1st and 2nd rounds they hosted DePauw, Denison and a Wisconsin team from the NAC.  I could see something very similar to this, except Denison hosts the pod. 

Thoughts?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 27, 2011, 10:42:41 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 27, 2011, 08:43:25 PM
Quote from: fannie on February 27, 2011, 07:40:30 PM
Thanks Mr. Ypsi - one more question - any chance Hope girls host????

IMO, VERY slight.  Pool C teams rarely host, and, with Calvin and Hope so near to each other, they would NOT import teams to Michigan for TWO 'pods' (and Calvin gets the nod if Michigan gets even one).  While I'm not nearly as familiar with the women's history as with the men's, I'll stick my neck out and predict Calvin hosts, while Hope gets sent to the Chicago area (VERY broadly defined ;)).  


It's true that Pool C's rarely host but I think Hope still has a good chance of getting a sectional. In 2005, the Albion men's team got in the NCAA's on a Pool C but went on to host a sectional that included Calvin, John Carroll and Mississippi College.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on February 27, 2011, 11:57:09 PM
Quote from: goknights68 on February 27, 2011, 07:07:00 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on February 27, 2011, 12:08:00 AM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 26, 2011, 10:42:34 PM
Great game today at VNA.  One of the best games I've ever seen.  It had it all - tight start, big lead, good comeback, great finish.  Congratulations to the Lady Knights!  I can see both of these teams making a big impact on the NCAA tournament.

Too bad Hope's team didn't have enough class to stick around for the award ceremony.  It looked a bit awkward when only their coach decided he better come back and watch after he had gone in also.  I guess they don't know how to handle themselves when they are on the other side of a championship game.

This is a ridiculous comment.  Show me the game when Calvin stays out for Hope to receive accolades.  You want to talk about how the Hope women handle themselves after being on the "other side" of a championship game, look at the video of last year's national tournament championship and the interviews afterward.  Besides, the Calvin men's and KVS's conspicuous absence after their loss nullifies what you have to say here.  Your uninformed opinion and snide remarks only make the Lady Knights' well-earned victory seem a bit less than what it should be. 

I say congratulations to the Calvin women today for their hard-fought win; congratulations to the Hope women for an excellent season and keep your chins up, you are and always have been graceful both in victory and defeat; congratulations to the Hope men on securing the MIAA bid for the national tournament; and congratulations to the Calvin men, especially the seniors, for another winning season.

You don't need to degrade the Calvin's men's basketball that bad by congratulating them for just having a winning record.  They didn't have a good season.

No degrading to the Calvin men was ever intended.  That's not my style.  Sort of a damned if you do, damned if you don't proposition.  I chose to be damned for offering praise.  Thanks for following through on the damning.   ::)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: GoKnights68 on February 28, 2011, 12:26:54 AM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on February 27, 2011, 11:57:09 PM
Quote from: goknights68 on February 27, 2011, 07:07:00 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on February 27, 2011, 12:08:00 AM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 26, 2011, 10:42:34 PM
Great game today at VNA.  One of the best games I've ever seen.  It had it all - tight start, big lead, good comeback, great finish.  Congratulations to the Lady Knights!  I can see both of these teams making a big impact on the NCAA tournament.

Too bad Hope's team didn't have enough class to stick around for the award ceremony.  It looked a bit awkward when only their coach decided he better come back and watch after he had gone in also.  I guess they don't know how to handle themselves when they are on the other side of a championship game.

This is a ridiculous comment.  Show me the game when Calvin stays out for Hope to receive accolades.  You want to talk about how the Hope women handle themselves after being on the "other side" of a championship game, look at the video of last year's national tournament championship and the interviews afterward.  Besides, the Calvin men's and KVS's conspicuous absence after their loss nullifies what you have to say here.  Your uninformed opinion and snide remarks only make the Lady Knights' well-earned victory seem a bit less than what it should be. 

I say congratulations to the Calvin women today for their hard-fought win; congratulations to the Hope women for an excellent season and keep your chins up, you are and always have been graceful both in victory and defeat; congratulations to the Hope men on securing the MIAA bid for the national tournament; and congratulations to the Calvin men, especially the seniors, for another winning season.

You don't need to degrade the Calvin's men's basketball that bad by congratulating them for just having a winning record.  They didn't have a good season.

No degrading to the Calvin men was ever intended.  That's not my style.  Sort of a damned if you do, damned if you don't proposition.  I chose to be damned for offering praise.  Thanks for following through on the damning.   ::)

Wasn't intending on starting anything.  Although Calvin men have not have performed as well in recent years as Hope men, we Calvin fans and the administration still hold the men's program to very high standards each and every year.  That is all I was implying. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on February 28, 2011, 01:02:00 AM
Quote from: goknights68 on February 28, 2011, 12:26:54 AM

Wasn't intending on starting anything.  Although Calvin men have not have performed as well in recent years as Hope men, we Calvin fans and the administration still hold the men's program to very high standards each and every year.  That is all I was implying. 

You have a funny way of not trying to start something.  I said something positive and you called it "degrading".  Perhaps your standards are set too high.  To consistently have a winning conference and overall record is nothing to take for granted.  Take a moment to realize that before possibly offending other programs in the conference by tossing aside your winning record by calling it's mention "degrading". 

If you wanted to avoid starting something, then simply asking what I meant by my comment would be met with a note of clarification and possibly an apology for any offense that might have been taken.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: GoKnights68 on February 28, 2011, 01:27:46 AM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on February 28, 2011, 01:02:00 AM
Quote from: goknights68 on February 28, 2011, 12:26:54 AM

Wasn't intending on starting anything.  Although Calvin men have not have performed as well in recent years as Hope men, we Calvin fans and the administration still hold the men's program to very high standards each and every year.  That is all I was implying. 

You have a funny way of not trying to start something.  I said something positive and you called it "degrading".  Perhaps your standards are set too high.  To consistently have a winning conference and overall record is nothing to take for granted.  Take a moment to realize that before possibly offending other programs in the conference by tossing aside your winning record by calling it's mention "degrading". 

If you wanted to avoid starting something, then simply asking what I meant by my comment would be met with a note of clarification and possibly an apology for any offense that might have been taken.

You're right, I probably do take the success Calvin's men's basketball as had over the years for granted.

I also realize the amount of talent Calvin brings every year compared to all the other MIAA programs other named Hope.  Therefore, simply looking at their in conference winning % is not the best way to measure success. 

A 16-12 season, when two out of your top three players are seniors, is not "successful" in my book.   From someone who attended almost every home game this season and a few road games, I can say they underachieved when looking at their talent level. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 28, 2011, 09:42:50 AM
Gk68 - your expectations are probably the norm for Calvin and Hope fans, but I also suspect were you to talk to one of the seniors at the end of a less than stellar season, you would still offer some positive comments to them.  That's what Ern did - at least that's how I would take it.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ziggy on February 28, 2011, 03:05:29 PM
Hope gets to host DePauw
Denison faces off with Wash U in the other game of the pod

Calvin gets to host LaRoche
Chicago and Hanover play in the other game
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 28, 2011, 03:07:14 PM
The Hope pod seems loaded.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on February 28, 2011, 03:14:35 PM
4 of the top 11 teams in the country in Hope's pod. Nice.  :P
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 28, 2011, 03:16:00 PM
That is "the pod of death"
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 28, 2011, 03:16:19 PM
Quote from: ChicagoHopeNut on February 28, 2011, 03:07:14 PM
The Hope pod seems loaded.

It does; but not as loaded as it would seem if Hope was on the road.

The NCAA selection committee finally shows some love to the MIAA with both teams getting to host. :o
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: monsoon on February 28, 2011, 03:18:08 PM
Quote from: ziggy on February 28, 2011, 03:05:29 PM
Hope gets to host DePauw
Denison faces off with Wash U in the other game of the pod

Wow.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: cmlundy on February 28, 2011, 03:19:14 PM
Hope in the pod of death is an understatement.  But at this point being home may make all the difference in the world.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 28, 2011, 03:19:56 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 28, 2011, 03:16:00 PM
That is "the pod of death"

Put yourself in the basketball shoes of Denison, DePauw and WashU. I imagine they're none too thrilled at trying to win a game at a jam-packed DeVos, knowing Hope's women have only lost one game ever in that building.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on February 28, 2011, 03:21:29 PM
And if Hope survives that, Calvin in round 3 or 4. It'll be interesting to see who would get to host that! (If either - could be More.)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ziggy on February 28, 2011, 03:22:35 PM
Quote from: HopeConvert on February 28, 2011, 03:21:29 PM
And if Hope survives that, Calvin in round 3 or 4. It'll be interesting to see who would get to host that! (If either - could be More.)

It would be Thomas More for Hope in round 3

Possible Calvin-Hope IV would be round 4
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on February 28, 2011, 03:25:18 PM
Quote from: oldknight on February 28, 2011, 03:19:56 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 28, 2011, 03:16:00 PM
That is "the pod of death"

Put yourself in the basketball shoes of Denison, DePauw and WashU. I imagine they're none too thrilled at trying to win a game at a jam-packed DeVos, knowing Hope's women have only lost one game ever in that building.

I have no sympathy for them. DePauw's endowment is $442 million, Denison's $714 million, and Wash U's 4.6 billion. They can afford to travel.

(How's that for a non sequitur?)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jagluski on February 28, 2011, 03:26:59 PM
Quote from: monsoon on February 28, 2011, 03:18:08 PM
Quote from: ziggy on February 28, 2011, 03:05:29 PM
Hope gets to host DePauw
Denison faces off with Wash U in the other game of the pod

Wow.

This is nothing less than insane (coming from a Wash U fan).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ziggy on February 28, 2011, 03:27:51 PM
Quote from: jagluski on February 28, 2011, 03:26:59 PM
Quote from: monsoon on February 28, 2011, 03:18:08 PM
Quote from: ziggy on February 28, 2011, 03:05:29 PM
Hope gets to host DePauw
Denison faces off with Wash U in the other game of the pod

Wow.

This is nothing less than insane (coming from a Wash U fan).

The prize for surviving? Undefeated Thomas More.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on February 28, 2011, 03:35:20 PM
And while Calvin may have the "easier" path to the E-8, the lower half of this bracket still has 13 vote getters, and 11 top 25 teams... Ouch!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jagluski on February 28, 2011, 03:39:17 PM
Quote from: ziggy on February 28, 2011, 03:27:51 PM
Quote from: jagluski on February 28, 2011, 03:26:59 PM
Quote from: monsoon on February 28, 2011, 03:18:08 PM
Quote from: ziggy on February 28, 2011, 03:05:29 PM
Hope gets to host DePauw
Denison faces off with Wash U in the other game of the pod

Wow.

This is nothing less than insane (coming from a Wash U fan).

The prize for surviving? Undefeated Thomas More.

And then probably the winner of a second-round game between Calvin and Chicago.  Whoever makes the Final Four will definitely have earned it.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on February 28, 2011, 04:00:35 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 28, 2011, 09:42:50 AM
Gk68 - your expectations are probably the norm for Calvin and Hope fans, but I also suspect were you to talk to one of the seniors at the end of a less than stellar season, you would still offer some positive comments to them.  That's what Ern did - at least that's how I would take it.

As did I!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on February 28, 2011, 04:03:11 PM
Quote from: jagluski on February 28, 2011, 03:39:17 PM
Quote from: ziggy on February 28, 2011, 03:27:51 PM
Quote from: jagluski on February 28, 2011, 03:26:59 PM
Quote from: monsoon on February 28, 2011, 03:18:08 PM
Quote from: ziggy on February 28, 2011, 03:05:29 PM
Hope gets to host DePauw
Denison faces off with Wash U in the other game of the pod

Wow.

This is nothing less than insane (coming from a Wash U fan).

The prize for surviving? Undefeated Thomas More.

And then probably the winner of a second-round game between Calvin and Chicago.  Whoever makes the Final Four will definitely have earned it.

Hope could have to beat (if all goes as rankings would have it) 4 top 10 teams to advance to the final 4. Everyone else only max 2. The other three corners of the bracket could have teams not hit a top 10 team till the final 4.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on February 28, 2011, 04:22:45 PM
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on February 28, 2011, 04:03:11 PM
Quote from: jagluski on February 28, 2011, 03:39:17 PM
Quote from: ziggy on February 28, 2011, 03:27:51 PM
Quote from: jagluski on February 28, 2011, 03:26:59 PM
Quote from: monsoon on February 28, 2011, 03:18:08 PM
Quote from: ziggy on February 28, 2011, 03:05:29 PM
Hope gets to host DePauw
Denison faces off with Wash U in the other game of the pod

Wow.

This is nothing less than insane (coming from a Wash U fan).

The prize for surviving? Undefeated Thomas More.

And then probably the winner of a second-round game between Calvin and Chicago.  Whoever makes the Final Four will definitely have earned it.

Hope could have to beat (if all goes as rankings would have it) 4 top 10 teams to advance to the final 4. Everyone else only max 2. The other three corners of the bracket could have teams not hit a top 10 team till the final 4.

Let's hope that is a good portent.  In 2006 they beat everyone above them to win the championship. :) :D ;D ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: fannie on February 28, 2011, 04:31:45 PM
Shocker!!!!!!!!!   Joy - get to see the Dutch gals at home one more time!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 28, 2011, 05:50:45 PM
Quote from: fannie on February 28, 2011, 04:31:45 PM
Shocker!!!!!!!!!   Joy - get to see the Dutch gals at home one more time!

I assume you really want to see the Dutch gals at home two more times.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 28, 2011, 06:00:47 PM
It's looking pretty far down the road to speculate on this (since I'm not a coach or player I can do that) but if both Calvin and Hope survive the first two games, how likely is it that the sectional would be hosted right here in West Michigan? It certainly would reduce travel for the participating teams, and result in a large and loud D3 hoops environment if both advanced to play one another in a national quarterfinal.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 28, 2011, 06:09:44 PM
Quote from: oldknight on February 28, 2011, 06:00:47 PM
It's looking pretty far down the road to speculate on this (since I'm not a coach or player I can do that) but if both Calvin and Hope survive the first two games, how likely is it that the sectional would be hosted right here in West Michigan? It certainly would reduce travel for the participating teams, and result in a large and loud D3 hoops environment if both advanced to play one another in a national quarterfinal.

Is the final four at Hope?

If so, might the powers that be hesitate to give have sectionals there too? That'd mean Hope would potentially have all home games as far as they go.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 28, 2011, 06:14:21 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 28, 2011, 06:09:44 PM
Quote from: oldknight on February 28, 2011, 06:00:47 PM
It's looking pretty far down the road to speculate on this (since I'm not a coach or player I can do that) but if both Calvin and Hope survive the first two games, how likely is it that the sectional would be hosted right here in West Michigan? It certainly would reduce travel for the participating teams, and result in a large and loud D3 hoops environment if both advanced to play one another in a national quarterfinal.

Is the final four at Hope?

If so, might the powers that be hesitate to give have sectionals there too? That'd mean Hope would potentially have all home games as far as they go.


No; it's at IWU in Bloomington again. Hope will host the finals next year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 28, 2011, 06:30:39 PM
Quote from: oldknight on February 28, 2011, 06:14:21 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 28, 2011, 06:09:44 PM
Quote from: oldknight on February 28, 2011, 06:00:47 PM
It's looking pretty far down the road to speculate on this (since I'm not a coach or player I can do that) but if both Calvin and Hope survive the first two games, how likely is it that the sectional would be hosted right here in West Michigan? It certainly would reduce travel for the participating teams, and result in a large and loud D3 hoops environment if both advanced to play one another in a national quarterfinal.

Is the final four at Hope?

If so, might the powers that be hesitate to give have sectionals there too? That'd mean Hope would potentially have all home games as far as they go.


No; it's at IWU in Bloomington again. Hope will host the finals next year.

It's possible IWU will be in a position to play every game at home this year. They are hosting this weekend and depending on how things shake out could host again next weekend. Whether the fact they'd never leave home might play a role in decisions would be interesting to know.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 28, 2011, 07:24:39 PM
Quote from: ChicagoHopeNut on February 28, 2011, 06:30:39 PM
Quote from: oldknight on February 28, 2011, 06:14:21 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 28, 2011, 06:09:44 PM
Quote from: oldknight on February 28, 2011, 06:00:47 PM
It's looking pretty far down the road to speculate on this (since I'm not a coach or player I can do that) but if both Calvin and Hope survive the first two games, how likely is it that the sectional would be hosted right here in West Michigan? It certainly would reduce travel for the participating teams, and result in a large and loud D3 hoops environment if both advanced to play one another in a national quarterfinal.

Is the final four at Hope?

If so, might the powers that be hesitate to give have sectionals there too? That'd mean Hope would potentially have all home games as far as they go.


No; it's at IWU in Bloomington again. Hope will host the finals next year.

It's possible IWU will be in a position to play every game at home this year. They are hosting this weekend and depending on how things shake out could host again next weekend. Whether the fact they'd never leave home might play a role in decisions would be interesting to know.

Last year they would have played all the games at home had not UWSP beaten them at the Shirk short of the FF.  Two years ago they played all games at home (and fell one game short of coming to Holland).

The NCAA does seems to have a love affair with the Shirk! ;D  (It IS more centrally located for many of the 'power teams' than most.  What really made me say 'wow' is that Hope and Calvin are BOTH hosting up here on the peninsula!  I'm surprised the Hope 'pod of death' 1) exists and 2) if it exists is not at Denison or DePauw.)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 28, 2011, 07:27:41 PM
Kind of a weird footnote to the pod in Holland.

Denison and DePauw both played and lost to Hope in Holland in last years 1st and 2nd rounds.

Washington U played at DeVos as part of the women's final four just 2 years ago.


If that weren't enough WashU and Hope have played twice in the last 12 months, and WashU played DePauw earlier this season.



You might be hard pressed to find a pod of 4 teams that will be so familiar with each other as these 4.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on February 28, 2011, 08:16:06 PM
If Calvin and UW La Crosse can both make it to the final four, Calvin's coach, John Ross, will get to go up against his brother, Mark Ross, who is assistant coach at UW La Crosse.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 28, 2011, 09:47:36 PM
Quote from: oldknight on February 28, 2011, 06:00:47 PM
It's looking pretty far down the road to speculate on this (since I'm not a coach or player I can do that) but if both Calvin and Hope survive the first two games, how likely is it that the sectional would be hosted right here in West Michigan? It certainly would reduce travel for the participating teams, and result in a large and loud D3 hoops environment if both advanced to play one another in a national quarterfinal.

I would say it would require Thomas More to lose in round 1 or 2.

It looks like Calvin is the "2" seed and Hope is the "3".
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 28, 2011, 09:52:44 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 28, 2011, 09:47:36 PM
Quote from: oldknight on February 28, 2011, 06:00:47 PM
It's looking pretty far down the road to speculate on this (since I'm not a coach or player I can do that) but if both Calvin and Hope survive the first two games, how likely is it that the sectional would be hosted right here in West Michigan? It certainly would reduce travel for the participating teams, and result in a large and loud D3 hoops environment if both advanced to play one another in a national quarterfinal.

I would say it would require Thomas More to lose in round 1 or 2.

It looks like Calvin is the "2" seed and Hope is the "3".

Massey thinks Thomas More will lose to Whitewater in round 2.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: fannie on February 28, 2011, 09:55:04 PM
Quote from: oldknight on February 28, 2011, 05:50:45 PM
Quote from: fannie on February 28, 2011, 04:31:45 PM
Shocker!!!!!!!!!   Joy - get to see the Dutch gals at home one more time!

I assume you really want to see the Dutch gals at home two more times.

That would be CORRECT oldknight!  :-)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: David Collinge on February 28, 2011, 10:53:28 PM
Quote from: sac on February 28, 2011, 07:27:41 PM
Kind of a weird footnote to the pod in Holland.

Denison and DePauw both played and lost to Hope in Holland in last years 1st and 2nd rounds.

Washington U played at DeVos as part of the women's final four just 2 years ago.


If that weren't enough WashU and Hope have played twice in the last 12 months, and WashU played DePauw earlier this season.



You might be hard pressed to find a pod of 4 teams that will be so familiar with each other as these 4.

And of course Denison and DePauw are about to become a lot more familiar with one another.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on March 01, 2011, 12:06:41 AM
Why is Wash U. playing in Michigan against Great Lakes Region opponents? Why aren't they playing against fellow Central Region opponents?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Wydown Blvd. on March 01, 2011, 01:02:00 AM
Ralph Turner answered this in the NCAA tournament thread

Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2011, 12:29:12 AM
Quote from: Dutchfan on March 01, 2011, 12:25:52 AM
Does anyone know why the NCAA puts such an emphasis on 'region play' if they aren't going to keep games in region like this?  I understand there are going to be some regional crossover games, but it seems to me that the NCAA didn't even attempt to align the bracket by region.
I think that they want to give the tournament a more national feel.

By spreading out the representatives from a region, you can get some different matchups, rather than facing the same old teams in the first two rounds again and again.

Regional play in the regular season is meant: to:

1) not to encourage expensive road trips on D3 budgets.
2) not to encourage missed class time.
3) comply with the general philosophy of D3 athletics.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on March 01, 2011, 02:56:07 AM
Quote from: Wydown Blvd. on March 01, 2011, 01:02:00 AM
Ralph Turner answered this in the NCAA tournament thread

Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2011, 12:29:12 AM
Quote from: Dutchfan on March 01, 2011, 12:25:52 AM
Does anyone know why the NCAA puts such an emphasis on 'region play' if they aren't going to keep games in region like this?  I understand there are going to be some regional crossover games, but it seems to me that the NCAA didn't even attempt to align the bracket by region.
I think that they want to give the tournament a more national feel.

By spreading out the representatives from a region, you can get some different matchups, rather than facing the same old teams in the first two rounds again and again.

Regional play in the regular season is meant: to:

1) not to encourage expensive road trips on D3 budgets.
2) not to encourage missed class time.
3) comply with the general philosophy of D3 athletics.

He did to a certain degree, but he said it was to face teams that weren't the "same old teams" but all four teams in 'The Pod of Death' have a lot of recent history together. On top of that it's not right to reward an undefeated team with a trip to face anothre top team at their home court. What I thought the NCAA should of done is swtch out Calvin and La Roche for Wash U. and Denison. Let Denison Host and now the brackets is at least a little more balanced with Wash U. being rewarded with a shorter travel and Denison hosting. For La Roche (who is from Pittsburgh) it won;t matter if they go to Grand Rapids or Holland since the cities are less thatn thirty minutes apart.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on March 01, 2011, 06:49:44 AM
Carissa VerKaik - MVP

1st Team

Patty Rewa- Albion
Cariissa VerKaik- Calvin
Ally Wolfiss- Calvin
Carrie Snikkers- Hope
Erika Bruinsma- Hope
Kelly Murphy- St. Mary's

2nd Team
Melissa Shaw- Albion
Sydney Beckwith- Alma
Liz Ellis - Hope- Defensive Player of the Year
Maggie Ronan- St. Mary's
Liz Wade- St. Mary's
Danielle Seif-Trine

Official site here:  http://www.miaa.org/
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hopefan on March 01, 2011, 08:01:54 AM
Quote from: Dutchfan on March 01, 2011, 02:56:07 AM
Quote from: Wydown Blvd. on March 01, 2011, 01:02:00 AM
Ralph Turner answered this in the NCAA tournament thread

Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2011, 12:29:12 AM
Quote from: Dutchfan on March 01, 2011, 12:25:52 AM
Does anyone know why the NCAA puts such an emphasis on 'region play' if they aren't going to keep games in region like this?  I understand there are going to be some regional crossover games, but it seems to me that the NCAA didn't even attempt to align the bracket by region.
I think that they want to give the tournament a more national feel.

By spreading out the representatives from a region, you can get some different matchups, rather than facing the same old teams in the first two rounds again and again.

Regional play in the regular season is meant: to:

1) not to encourage expensive road trips on D3 budgets.
2) not to encourage missed class time.
3) comply with the general philosophy of D3 athletics.

He did to a certain degree, but he said it was to face teams that weren't the "same old teams" but all four teams in 'The Pod of Death' have a lot of recent history together. On top of that it's not right to reward an undefeated team with a trip to face anothre top team at their home court. What I thought the NCAA should of done is swtch out Calvin and La Roche for Wash U. and Denison. Let Denison Host and now the brackets is at least a little more balanced with Wash U. being rewarded with a shorter travel and Denison hosting. For La Roche (who is from Pittsburgh) it won;t matter if they go to Grand Rapids or Holland since the cities are less thatn thirty minutes apart.

Here's a thought I had... as a fan of both St Louis area schools and Hope... if a St Louis school had to go to Hope, why didn't they send Webster.... Webster is going to be a clearcut 4 seed at IWU or at Hope... that way the IWU pod would look forward to a IWU - Wash U final and that pod would still not be overburdened, while the Hope pod would lighten up but still have a Hope vs Depauw or Denison final to look forward to..... makes sense to me....
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeCSO on March 01, 2011, 09:03:27 AM
I am elated to have these 4 deserving teams play in Holland this weekend and for W. Michigan to host 8 great teams playing 6 exciting games.   There should be a lot of community support at both sites but from past experience, Holland will have the largest attendance.  I pray for safe travels for the teams and injury free weekend.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 01, 2011, 09:33:42 AM
From the bracket, is it fair to guess that the hidden GL regional ranking go like this?

Thomas More
Calvin
Hope
Denison
Hanover
DePauw
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KNIGHTRHOPE on March 01, 2011, 10:49:05 AM
does anyone recall Calvin girls getting crushed at Devos a few weeks back?  I still believe Hope to be the far superior team.  They have a chance. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 01, 2011, 11:21:47 AM
Congrats to Ms. VerKaik being MVP for the second year in a row.  Watching and comparing the stats all season long she seemed the odds on favorite.
After her performance last week in the tournament there shouldn't have been any doubt in anyone's mind.
She is going to own the MIAA recordbook by the time her career is done. 

Khope.  I will settle for Calvin's 2 out of 3 wins anytime.  I don't think anyone said anything negative aout Hope or any of the Hope players.  They are very talented, and have a record others can only dream about.


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 01, 2011, 11:40:46 AM
Quote from: realist on March 01, 2011, 11:21:47 AM
Congrats to Ms. VerKaik being MVP for the second year in a row.  Watching and comparing the stats all season long she seemed the odds on favorite.
After her performance last week in the tournament there shouldn't have been any doubt in anyone's mind.


Apparently Brian Van Ochten doesn't agree:

http://www.mlive.com/smallcolleges/grandrapids/index.ssf/2011/02/ferris_state_men_finally_get_s.html

I thought his article was somewhat foolish. I wouldn't have had a problem if Carrie had won and, if I was the lone decider, I would have had these two ladies share the crown, but an honest observer can't say Carissa doesn't deserve her award.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 01, 2011, 11:47:19 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 01, 2011, 09:33:42 AM
From the bracket, is it fair to guess that the hidden GL regional ranking go like this?

Thomas More
Calvin
Hope
Denison
Hanover
DePauw

Seems so,  it could be argued the pod in Holland is about geography and 'fiscal resposibility'.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 01, 2011, 11:50:40 AM
Quote from: oldknight on March 01, 2011, 11:40:46 AM
Quote from: realist on March 01, 2011, 11:21:47 AM
Congrats to Ms. VerKaik being MVP for the second year in a row.  Watching and comparing the stats all season long she seemed the odds on favorite.
After her performance last week in the tournament there shouldn't have been any doubt in anyone's mind.


Apparently Brian Van Ochten doesn't agree:

http://www.mlive.com/smallcolleges/grandrapids/index.ssf/2011/02/ferris_state_men_finally_get_s.html

I thought his article was somewhat foolish. I wouldn't have had a problem if Carrie had won and, if I was the lone decider, I would have had these two ladies share the crown, but an honest observer can't say Carissa doesn't deserve her award.

The best part of the article is that after he finishes talking about how counting stats (my term) shouldn't apply because of the minutes played difference, he quotes Snikkers' 13 fewer turnovers as a supporting argument for Carrie.

[facepalm]
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 01, 2011, 11:53:15 AM
Quote from: sac on March 01, 2011, 11:47:19 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 01, 2011, 09:33:42 AM
From the bracket, is it fair to guess that the hidden GL regional ranking go like this?

Thomas More
Calvin
Hope
Denison
Hanover
DePauw

Seems so,  it could be argued the pod in Holland is about geography and 'fiscal resposibility'.



If so, let's root for the MIAA because if both teams win, and these criteria are paramount, then one or the other school should be host for sectionals.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 01, 2011, 11:53:47 AM
Quote from: oldknight on March 01, 2011, 11:40:46 AM
Quote from: realist on March 01, 2011, 11:21:47 AM
Congrats to Ms. VerKaik being MVP for the second year in a row.  Watching and comparing the stats all season long she seemed the odds on favorite.
After her performance last week in the tournament there shouldn't have been any doubt in anyone's mind.


Apparently Brian Van Ochten doesn't agree:

http://www.mlive.com/smallcolleges/grandrapids/index.ssf/2011/02/ferris_state_men_finally_get_s.html

I thought his article was somewhat foolish. I wouldn't have had a problem if Carrie had won and, if I was the lone decider, I would have had these two ladies share the crown, but an honest observer can't say Carissa doesn't deserve her award.

I will see you, and raise you on the somewhat foolish comment. :)
Several times in the last week I mentioned I thought it would come out co-mvp.  I changed my mind after the tournament last week.  Hands down CV was the better, and more valueable player all season long.  The stats aren't even that close.
Unlike BVO I think post season awards really need to go to the player that does the job on the floor.  I don't argue that CS has great talent and skill, but no one knows what might have happened had she played more.  It certainly didn't help that she had games when she scored single digits.  If her coach wanted her to get the mvp he should have made sure she played more, and had the stats to prove how important she was.  
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 01, 2011, 11:57:16 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 01, 2011, 11:50:40 AM
Quote from: oldknight on March 01, 2011, 11:40:46 AM
Quote from: realist on March 01, 2011, 11:21:47 AM
Congrats to Ms. VerKaik being MVP for the second year in a row.  Watching and comparing the stats all season long she seemed the odds on favorite.
After her performance last week in the tournament there shouldn't have been any doubt in anyone's mind.


Apparently Brian Van Ochten doesn't agree:

http://www.mlive.com/smallcolleges/grandrapids/index.ssf/2011/02/ferris_state_men_finally_get_s.html

I thought his article was somewhat foolish. I wouldn't have had a problem if Carrie had won and, if I was the lone decider, I would have had these two ladies share the crown, but an honest observer can't say Carissa doesn't deserve her award.

The best part of the article is that after he finishes talking about how counting stats (my term) shouldn't apply because of the minutes played difference, he quotes Snikkers' 13 fewer turnovers as a supporting argument for Carrie.

[facepalm]

Yeah; I got a chuckle out of that kind of "reasoning" too and it's what I had in mind when I found his article foolish.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 01, 2011, 12:21:45 PM
Well I'll double raise you. :o Van Ochten doesn't seem to realize that a central premise of his argument is at odds with his conclusion (we call that a non sequitor). He mentions that Carrie's stats are less impressive because "she had a better supporting cast capable of shouldering more of the offensive load" and that "Hope had huge leads in most of its games." Well Brian, if your team didn't need you to win, how valuable are you? :-X
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 01, 2011, 12:57:13 PM
"It is an embarrassment that Snikkers, who was named D-III national player of the year on the eve of leading the Flying Dutch to a runner-up finish in the national title game last season, wasn't the MVP of her own league."

Why wouldn't the embarassed party here be the people who made her poy when she hadn't won the lesser award first. :)

"The former Holland Christian star had superior numbers -- on paper -- "  Duh, and she got those numbers on the floor where the game gets played. :)

Well at least he was more gracious in his article announcing the winner, but he doesn't "recant" his earlier bias. :)

http://www.mlive.com/smallcolleges/grandrapids/index.ssf/2011/03/calvins_carissa_verkaik_named_1.html#postComment




Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 01, 2011, 05:03:23 PM
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on February 28, 2011, 04:03:11 PM
Quote from: jagluski on February 28, 2011, 03:39:17 PM
Quote from: ziggy on February 28, 2011, 03:27:51 PM
Quote from: jagluski on February 28, 2011, 03:26:59 PM
Quote from: monsoon on February 28, 2011, 03:18:08 PM
Quote from: ziggy on February 28, 2011, 03:05:29 PM
Hope gets to host DePauw
Denison faces off with Wash U in the other game of the pod

Wow.

This is nothing less than insane (coming from a Wash U fan).

The prize for surviving? Undefeated Thomas More.

And then probably the winner of a second-round game between Calvin and Chicago.  Whoever makes the Final Four will definitely have earned it.

Hope could have to beat (if all goes as rankings would have it) 4 top 10 teams to advance to the final 4. Everyone else only max 2. The other three corners of the bracket could have teams not hit a top 10 team till the final 4.

I must also point out, that Denison has the same potential path as Hope, with 4 possible top ten match-ups. (And no home court advantage...)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on March 01, 2011, 05:07:16 PM
Quote from: realist on March 01, 2011, 11:53:47 AM
Quote from: oldknight on March 01, 2011, 11:40:46 AM
Quote from: realist on March 01, 2011, 11:21:47 AM
Congrats to Ms. VerKaik being MVP for the second year in a row.  Watching and comparing the stats all season long she seemed the odds on favorite.
After her performance last week in the tournament there shouldn't have been any doubt in anyone's mind.


Apparently Brian Van Ochten doesn't agree:

http://www.mlive.com/smallcolleges/grandrapids/index.ssf/2011/02/ferris_state_men_finally_get_s.html

I thought his article was somewhat foolish. I wouldn't have had a problem if Carrie had won and, if I was the lone decider, I would have had these two ladies share the crown, but an honest observer can't say Carissa doesn't deserve her award.

I will see you, and raise you on the somewhat foolish comment. :)
Several times in the last week I mentioned I thought it would come out co-mvp.  I changed my mind after the tournament last week.  Hands down CV was the better, and more valueable player all season long.  The stats aren't even that close.
Unlike BVO I think post season awards really need to go to the player that does the job on the floor.  I don't argue that CS has great talent and skill, but no one knows what might have happened had she played more.  It certainly didn't help that she had games when she scored single digits.  If her coach wanted her to get the mvp he should have made sure she played more, and had the stats to prove how important she was.  

In my opinion:

1) That would have gone against Mo's team concept
2) He would have been accused of "poring it on"
3) Because of a problem knee, he rested her more late in the year
4) Carrie did not win the conference MVP last year. but did win the POY in DIII.  As Mo said in the Holland Senile this morning, he hopes for a long run in the NCAA so as to give her another chance at that.  That would make me perfectly happy as well.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 01, 2011, 05:48:51 PM
Acccording to Calvin's sports headline of today, Tom and Carrie Snikkers is the first brother/sister combo in MIAA history to receive All-MIAA first team honors in men's/women's basketball. 8-)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: fannie on March 01, 2011, 06:40:34 PM
Lots of talk about the "pod of death" - any thoughts on the strength of the Calvin pod - or Calvin's chances in their pod???
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 01, 2011, 07:09:09 PM
If LaRoche is anything like Juniata was for Hope a couple years ago, Calvin will win that without much trouble.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on March 02, 2011, 08:16:25 AM
Quote from: sac on March 01, 2011, 07:09:09 PM
If LaRoche is anything like Juniata was for Hope a couple years ago, Calvin will win that without much trouble.

A little early for that shtick, isnt' it?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 02, 2011, 08:23:08 AM
Quote from: fannie on March 01, 2011, 06:40:34 PM
Lots of talk about the "pod of death" - any thoughts on the strength of the Calvin pod - or Calvin's chances in their pod???

I have it on good authority that KnightSlappy is considering doing a preview of this weekend's games at Van Noord on his blog, just as he did all season for the men's games.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 02, 2011, 09:18:02 AM
Quote from: wiz on March 02, 2011, 08:16:25 AM
Quote from: sac on March 01, 2011, 07:09:09 PM
If LaRoche is anything like Juniata was for Hope a couple years ago, Calvin will win that without much trouble.

A little early for that shtick, isnt' it?

I think sac is being straight-up here; Massey has Calvin as a 23-point favorite.

Calvin's potential second game against Chicago, though, would be much tougher if it happens. The d3hoops.com poll and Massey have Chicago as #6. Massey has the game as a virtual draw, with Calvin about a 1-point favorite by virtue of home court advantage.

The plus side is that Chicago doesn't appear to be nearly as good at stealing the ball as Hope.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ziggy on March 02, 2011, 09:35:20 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on March 02, 2011, 09:18:02 AM
Quote from: wiz on March 02, 2011, 08:16:25 AM
Quote from: sac on March 01, 2011, 07:09:09 PM
If LaRoche is anything like Juniata was for Hope a couple years ago, Calvin will win that without much trouble.

A little early for that shtick, isnt' it?

I think sac is being straight-up here; Massey has Calvin as a 23-point favorite.

Calvin's potential second game against Chicago, though, would be much tougher if it happens. The d3hoops.com poll and Massey have Chicago as #6. Massey has the game as a virtual draw, with Calvin about a 1-point favorite by virtue of home court advantage.

The plus side is that Chicago doesn't appear to be nearly as good at stealing the ball as Hope.


Massey is more confident in Hope surviving their pod of death than Calvin reaching the sectional, fwiw.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 02, 2011, 10:13:28 AM
Happy Calvin Guy on the other board has graciously wished Hope's men well, so I'll reciprocate and wish Calvin's women well this weekend.  If Calvin and Hope women can both win this weekend, perhaps we could all dream of a West Michigan rematch a week from Saturday. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 02, 2011, 12:38:24 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on March 02, 2011, 09:18:02 AM
Quote from: wiz on March 02, 2011, 08:16:25 AM
Quote from: sac on March 01, 2011, 07:09:09 PM
If LaRoche is anything like Juniata was for Hope a couple years ago, Calvin will win that without much trouble.

A little early for that shtick, isnt' it?

I think sac is being straight-up here; Massey has Calvin as a 23-point favorite.

Calvin's potential second game against Chicago, though, would be much tougher if it happens. The d3hoops.com poll and Massey have Chicago as #6. Massey has the game as a virtual draw, with Calvin about a 1-point favorite by virtue of home court advantage.

The plus side is that Chicago doesn't appear to be nearly as good at stealing the ball as Hope.


Yes I was.  I was at the first round Hope/Juniata match-up at Baldwin-Wallace in 2008 and it was a pretty big mismatch.   

http://www.miaa.org/wbb/stats/0708/08ncaa01.htm

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2011, 12:45:09 PM
Just submitted my entry in the d3hoops.com bracket contest.  I've got Hope downing Calvin in yet another rematch, and (although one year too late for the Snikkers-Solari showdown I'd always hoped for) I have Hope and IWU meeting in the title game.

I'll leave it to your imagination which one I picked for the walnut-and-bronze! ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 02, 2011, 01:19:44 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2011, 12:45:09 PM
Just submitted my entry in the d3hoops.com bracket contest.  I've got Hope downing Calvin in yet another rematch, and (although one year too late for the Snikkers-Solari showdown I'd always hoped for) I have Hope and IWU meeting in the title game.

I'll leave it to your imagination which one I picked for the walnut-and-bronze! ;)

The one with experience playing in the national championship game at the Shirk?     :P
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2011, 01:43:47 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 02, 2011, 01:19:44 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2011, 12:45:09 PM
Just submitted my entry in the d3hoops.com bracket contest.  I've got Hope downing Calvin in yet another rematch, and (although one year too late for the Snikkers-Solari showdown I'd always hoped for) I have Hope and IWU meeting in the title game.

I'll leave it to your imagination which one I picked for the walnut-and-bronze! ;)

The one with experience playing in the national championship game at the Shirk????     :P

Touche - you cruel SOB! :o :D  I should respond that Hope's experience consists of LOSING the title game at the Shirk, but I'll take the high road. ;)

I'm getting a real complex about UWSP.  Last year they knocked both the women's and men's Titans out of the tourney.  This year I've got them again knocking out the men (after the men upset the Tommies in St. Paul), but I've got the women getting revenge in the sectional.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 02, 2011, 01:52:27 PM
I put together the following stat comparison of Hope & DePauw:



Offense     % 2pt   % 3pt      % FT
Hope     49.3   35.8      68.3
DePauw     48.6   32.5      66.4
            
Defense     % 2pt   % 3pt     
Hope     32.0   27.9     
DePauw     40.3   30.8     
            
Rebounding     Team   Opp      Margin
Hope     41.5   33.9      7.6
DePauw     42.5   28.8      13.7
            
Scoring     Team   Opp      Margin
Hope     74.3   47.6      26.7
DePauw     73.5   51.0      22.5
            
3 point shooting     Attempts   Made      Made/game
Hope     500   179      6.4
DePauw     455   148      5.3
            
Blocks     Total   per game     
Hope     145   5.2     
DePauw     65   2.3     
            
Steals     Total   per game     
Hope     378   13.5     
DePauw     271   9.7     
            
Turnovers     Total    per game     
Hope     479   17.1     
DePauw     354   12.6     
            
Assists     Total   per game     
Hope     438   15.6     
DePauw     442   15.8     
            
Assist/Turnover             
Hope     0.91        
DePauw     1.25        
            
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 02, 2011, 03:38:24 PM
Quote from: realist on March 01, 2011, 12:57:13 PM
"It is an embarrassment that Snikkers, who was named D-III national player of the year on the eve of leading the Flying Dutch to a runner-up finish in the national title game last season, wasn't the MVP of her own league."

Why wouldn't the embarassed party here be the people who made her poy when she hadn't won the lesser award first. :)


I know I'm backing up a day here but something to keep in mind is that in most conferences, the coaches for for their POY or MVP or MOP based solely on conference play. For a team that advances deep into the playoffs, that amounts to about half the schedule.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 02, 2011, 04:17:29 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 02, 2011, 03:38:24 PM
Quote from: realist on March 01, 2011, 12:57:13 PM
"It is an embarrassment that Snikkers, who was named D-III national player of the year on the eve of leading the Flying Dutch to a runner-up finish in the national title game last season, wasn't the MVP of her own league."

Why wouldn't the embarassed party here be the people who made her poy when she hadn't won the lesser award first. :)


I know I'm backing up a day here but something to keep in mind is that in most conferences, the coaches for for their POY or MVP or MOP based solely on conference play. For a team that advances deep into the playoffs, that amounts to about half the schedule.

The MIAA coaches vote on the MVP and All MIAA teams on the Monday after the confeerence tournaments.  According to the information I have the awards are based solely on the 14/16 conference games, and this is reflected in the conference stats.  Pre., and post conference play are not factors in these awards.

Pat.  My quote was from an article in the GR Press.  The writer was voicing an opinion about Ms. Shikkers being poy last year, and how the mIAA should be embarassed because she wasn't MIAA mvp.  She wasn't either last year or this year because the voters made Verkaik mvp.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 02, 2011, 10:03:13 PM
Here's a look at Efficiency ratings for the Calvin pod with the warning that I don't usually do EFF for the women so I have no context of what these numbers really mean relative to the rest of the D3 woman's field.

EFF ratings are points per 100 possessions.


Offense
Chicago101.4
Hanover100.2
Calvin94.9
LaRoche89.4


Defense
Calvin69.1
LaRoche71.1
Chicago80.9
Hanover80.9

My eyes tell me Calvin's a pretty great defensive team for D3, so their number doesn't surprise me.

Combined
Calvin225.8
Chicago220.5
Hanover219.3
LaRoche218.3

These kinds of ratings are really only useful when you take into account schedule strength.  Masseyratings.com has its faults but its really all we have.

Schedule played ratings
Chicago#28
Calvin#57
Hanover#127
LaRoche#330


Looks to me like Calvin will be a pretty solid favorite to beat LaRoche.  LaRoche has trouble scoring points and playing a great defensive team like Calvin seems like a bad mix, their poor schedule relative to Calvin's will probably come home to roost in this one.  Chicago looks to be a slight favorite over Hanover, again the team with better numbers and the better schedule played should prevail, in honesty though on a neutral court that could be a toss-up.

Calvin should be considered a slight favorite over Chicago, the home court could be the advantage.  Calvin would also be the favorite over Hanover.   Chicago/Hanover would be pretty solid favorites over LaRoche.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 02, 2011, 10:20:58 PM
Here's a look at Efficiency ratings for the Hope pod with the warning that I don't usually do EFF for the women so I have no context of what these numbers really mean relative to the rest of the D3 woman's field.

EFF ratings are points per 100 possessions.


Offense
DePauw109.5
Denison105.3
Hope102.4
Washington99.2

DePauw appears to be a really great offensive team for the D3 women's game.

Defense
Hope65.5
Washington75.7
DePauw76.6
Denison77.4

My guess is Hope's eff is probably in the top 5 or 10 nationally.

Combined
Hope236.9
DePauw232.9
Denison227.9
Washington223.5

These kinds of ratings are really only useful when you take into account schedule strength.  Masseyratings.com has its faults but its really all we have.

Schedule played ratings
Washington#31
Hope#63
DePauw#110
Denison#181


Calculating these numbers for this bracket tempted me to do the whole field just to see how ridiculous this bracket might really be, but I think I'll pass.

Hope and DePauw looks to be a match-up of a great offense vs a great defense, I think Hope might be a slight favorite, their numbers are a little more solid with the slightly tougher schedule.

Denison has the better numbers, Washington has played the better schedule, in the end the teams thats played the better schedule usually wins out but its another close one, slight edge to Washington.

Either of those two games could be considered toss-ups.

Overall I think you make Hope the slight favorite to survive, but this pod should be very competitive and could legitimately go to any of the four teams.  The Saturday games whatever the pairings should be a good one.  It looks to me like the pecking order might go Hope, DePauw, Washington then Denison. 

We will see, this looks more like a sweet 16 grouping than a round 1/2 pod.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: David Collinge on March 03, 2011, 01:38:59 AM
Quote from: sac on March 02, 2011, 10:20:58 PM
We will see, this looks more like a sweet 16 grouping than a round 1/2 pod.

And that's a real shame from the perspective of Denison, because unlike the other three very successful programs, DU is a newcomer to the upper echelon of D3 and has never reached the Sweet Sixteen.  I feel like they did all they could to give themselves a very good shot at that goal this season, and instead got sent on the road to a bracket they have probably no better than a 1-in-5 chance of surviving, and probably much lower when Hope's immense home court advantage is taken into account. 

Those associated with Hope, DePauw, and Wash U. are probably planning or at least hoping for a national title this season; Denison's goal was to reach the second weekend and then play with house money.  And after 28 consecutive wins, that goal looks like a longshot.  And that's a shame.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on March 03, 2011, 06:39:45 AM
Quote from: David Collinge on March 03, 2011, 01:38:59 AM
Quote from: sac on March 02, 2011, 10:20:58 PM
We will see, this looks more like a sweet 16 grouping than a round 1/2 pod.

And that's a real shame from the perspective of Denison, because unlike the other three very successful programs, DU is a newcomer to the upper echelon of D3 and has never reached the Sweet Sixteen.  I feel like they did all they could to give themselves a very good shot at that goal this season, and instead got sent on the road to a bracket they have probably no better than a 1-in-5 chance of surviving, and probably much lower when Hope's immense home court advantage is taken into account. 

Those associated with Hope, DePauw, and Wash U. are probably planning or at least hoping for a national title this season; Denison's goal was to reach the second weekend and then play with house money.  And after 28 consecutive wins, that goal looks like a longshot.  And that's a shame.


Welcome to the "wisdom" of the NCAA.  We have felt their pain MANY a time!   :-\
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 03, 2011, 08:43:34 AM
Quote from: sac on March 02, 2011, 10:03:13 PM
Looks to me like Calvin will be a pretty solid favorite to beat LaRoche.  LaRoche has trouble scoring points and playing a great defensive team like Calvin seems like a bad mix, their poor schedule relative to Calvin's will probably come home to roost in this one.  Chicago looks to be a slight favorite over Hanover, again the team with better numbers and the better schedule played should prevail, in honesty though on a neutral court that could be a toss-up.

Calvin should be considered a slight favorite over Chicago, the home court could be the advantage.  Calvin would also be the favorite over Hanover.   Chicago/Hanover would be pretty solid favorites over LaRoche.

These judgments line up pretty well with Massey's power ratings:


Chicago21.9
Calvin20.4
Hanover13.5
LaRoche-1.2

I was curious whether any of these teams have been getting "hot" at the end of the season, so I computed Massey power for the last 5 games played by each team. I guess it's not too surprising that they are all picking up their level of play a little:


Chicago22.9
Calvin22.4
Hanover16.3
LaRoche-0.9

Update: Same thing for the other pod.


PowerLast5
Hope25.626.2
Washington20.815.3
DePauw17.814.7
Denison14.014.1

I guess the biggest surprises are that DePauw and especially Washington have been slipping. Hope looks like a pretty strong favorite to emerge from this pod and it doesn't much matter who they play.

Another point of interest: it looks as though Chicago would be a significantly tougher opponent for Calvin than anyone in the "Pod of Death" will be for Hope.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 03, 2011, 12:35:50 PM
As predicted, KnightSlappy did an analysis of the four teams in the regional being hosted by Calvin this weekend. KS does his usual stellar and thorough job, complete with charts and graphs. There's even bonus video of Calvin's last second win against Hope in the conference final. 8-) For those of you who may be unaware of his blog click the link below. +k to KS.

http://tomaroonandgold.blogspot.com/
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 03, 2011, 11:33:29 PM
If you didn't hear Hoopsville tonight I recommend it. Dave McHugh was softly but openly critical of the committee's decision in its placement of teams in the Hope regional. The show also featured a discussion with former Marymount coach Bill Finney who predicts that Hope--despite the daunting road it faces--will win it all. Finney also predicts a Calvin/Hope matchup in the quarterfinal round but acknowledges that the host site for sectionals is key. Check the link below and you can pick up McHugh's comments starting at the 19 minute mark and Finney's (on the Hope "pod of death") at the 44 minute mark.

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/13069967
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 04, 2011, 06:23:28 PM
Livestats for both games from Hope  (Washington is handling Denison rather easily)

http://www.hope.edu/pr/athletics/livestats/

Livetstas for both games from Calvin  (Chicago is handling Hanover rather easily)

http://www.calvin.edu/scoreboard/
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 04, 2011, 07:27:34 PM
Assuming both Hope and Calvin are still playing tomorrow, they'd better bring their 'A+' games - Chicago and WashU both destroyed opponents who had 1 loss between them! :o
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on March 04, 2011, 07:58:03 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 04, 2011, 07:27:34 PM
Assuming both Hope and Calvin are still playing tomorrow, they'd better bring their 'A+' games - Chicago and WashU both destroyed opponents who had 1 loss between them! :o

Calvin is up 33-7 in the first half.  I think that qualifies as an A+ game. Wow!

Update: 35-8 at the half! Ouch
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 04, 2011, 08:11:47 PM
I think that pairing is demonstrating the vast difference in midwest vs middle atlantic basketball.

Hope/Juniata was no match in 2008, that score could have been much worse than the 30 or so it was.   LaRoche appears overwhelmed by Calvin's size and abilities.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 04, 2011, 08:29:03 PM
Wonder what the tournament record is for fewest points?

LaRoche has 8 with 13 minutes to play, haven't scored in the 2nd half.   http://www.calvin.edu/scoreboard/
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 04, 2011, 09:08:29 PM
Hope v Washington tomorrow night for the 3rd time in just under 12 months.


Here's the box from the December meeting down in Delaware, Oh.
http://miaa.org/wbb/stats/1011/hopewash.htm

I'm not sure how you manage to have 50 rebounds and only win by 2 but did on that day.




Calvin 'hangs on' to win by 36 over LaRoche, and will play Chicago Saturday in what should be a much better and more competitive game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 04, 2011, 09:25:53 PM
I was sure Carissa was going to get her triple double tonight, with 19 points, 11 boards, and 9 blocks a couple of minutes into the second half. But she went out for a rest and never came back!

I suspect that LaRoche had never seen defense like Calvin's to this point.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: big_fella on March 04, 2011, 09:59:17 PM
Calvin total dismantled La Rouche tonight.  The game was effectively over in the first 7-8 minutes of the game.  I think Calvin lead like 17-2.  If Calvin keeps the starters in the game for a longer period of time in the 2nd half, La Rouche probably doesn't score 30 points.  I think this LaRouche team comes in 5 place in the MIAA.  Carissa was totally dominant.  Too bad she didn't get her triple-double.  Calvin will have a totally different game tomorrow with Chicago.  That will be a very difficult game.  Go Knights!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on March 04, 2011, 10:13:37 PM
This was my first Calvin women's game ever.  I'm not sure you could even call it a game. I think Laroche had 4 pts at the 5 minute mark of the first half.  They got into double digits in the second half at the 12 minute mark after Calvin's straters were done.   I have no clue of how good Calvin is because it was such a mismatch.  Laroche did not have much size.  I thought they would full court press but they never did.

I arrived at halftime of the Chicago - Hanover game with UC up by 17.  They built the lead to 29 and their coach began to sub.  Hanover cut it to 23 after a couple of minutes and Chicago began to put starters back in.  Their coach seemed very uptight.  His team had control the whole time but he used up all of his time outs.  I think he called his last time out with 1:09 to play and got right in the face of one his players.  He was a little over the top. 

Chicago full court pressed the whole game.  They have a very good point guard and a nice player in the middle.  It seems to me if Calvin can handle their pressure this would be a winnable game.                                                                                                                                                       
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on March 04, 2011, 10:43:46 PM
As evidence of the proposition you can never fully escape your past, I spent my evening at VanNoord watching the Calvin women's game (I was actually on Calvin's campus all day, but that mostly in a subversive capacity). While watching warm-ups I turned to the person next to me and said "Calvin wins by at least 30." This is less prescient than it sounds because you could see that LaRoche didn't shoot the ball that well and wouldn't match up well against Calvin.

And they certainly didn't shoot it well against Calvin's defense, which is well above average, and can only be beat if you can hit outside shots. Even then, however, LaRoche did Calvin a huge favor by having a simple game plan: attack the rim. If you plotted LaRoche's shot selection for the first 30 minutes of the game, you wouldn't find many shots from beyond 5 feet. This played right into the Damsels' hands, who were constantly blocking and altering shots. Once it became obvious that LaRoche wasn't going to have any success inside, and wasn't going to get Verkaik in foul trouble (who, I must say, does an excellent job holding her position and not going for ball fakes), LaRoche adjusted by doing ... nothing different. Had the Damsels not subbed, LaRoche wouldn't have scored 20 points for the game.

Perhaps LaRoche knows no other way to play, and this has been their formula for success all season. But they were thoroughly outclassed tonight. These two teams play ten times, Calvin wins all ten and never by less than 20. They're just that much better.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on March 04, 2011, 11:22:00 PM
Coaching News in the MIAA:

http://www.mlive.com/sports/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2011/03/kalamazoo_college_womens_baske_7.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+kalamazoosports+%28Kalamazoo+Gazette+Sports%29

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 05, 2011, 07:21:16 AM
good luck to the hope and calvin tonight hope go beat wash u
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 05, 2011, 10:51:35 AM
Looking at the mileage for the potential sectional round teams, it looks like the only way Calvin could host (if they're strict about the 500 mile rule) is for Mount Union to beat Thomas More, Wash U to beat Hope, and Calvin to beat Chicago (obviously). (The Greensboro/Juniata winner would be a flight to West Michigan).

Otherwise there would always be one site** that is within 500 miles to everyone else. The scenario above would cost the NCAA 1 flight, and it would appear that Calvin would be the top ranked team.

For Hope to host, the scenario would be the same, but flip their result and the Calvin result.

**I'm not sure if the NCAA would give Mount Union a sectional or not; they'd be within 500 miles of everyone if Hope beat Wash U in the above scenario, but they might be the lowest ranked team of the bunch.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 05, 2011, 12:48:05 PM
Thanks, as always, KnightSlappy for your informative observations.

If Hope and Calvin both were to win tonight, might not their proximity to each other be a factor?  And might not the extra revenue from a sectional game at either school pay for some school's airfare? 

Last night's Hope attendance was reported at 2022 . . . though it looked to me like a mostly filled gym and as many as at the Albion game, with its 2500+ reported attendance.  (The NCAA perhaps has a stricter definition of attendance?)  There will likely be 2000+ more at Hope tonight, and assuming the men aren't playing next weekend (siphoning off a few hundred Hope fans) even more a week hence, should there be a hosting opportunity. 

An extra 1000 fans for the NCAA x two nights x $8 adds up to some team's airfare, I should think.  And the same argument could be made for Calvin, especially if Hope makes it through this weekend.  (How about a rematch next Saturday night--our place or yours?)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 05, 2011, 01:34:51 PM
I'm not sure if they consider potential gate dollars or not. Calvin and Hope in the same sectional would be a huge draw.

I have heard that proximity inside of 500 miles is not taken into account. Its either a bus ride or a flight in the eyes of the ncaa. Not sure if that's teue or not, but its what I've heard.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 05, 2011, 07:10:00 PM
It's the Alex Hoover show...   :o
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 05, 2011, 07:33:29 PM
27-26 Wash U
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 05, 2011, 07:34:57 PM
32-23 Chicago

Little different game tonight...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 05, 2011, 07:35:22 PM
Washington 27 Hope 26 half

WashU currently has a +12 advantage on the boards, 28-16.  In December Hope won the boards battle 50-36.  Interesting.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 05, 2011, 07:36:42 PM
Both those Hope and Calvin scores are at the half.

Also of possible interest here, Thomas More 35, Mount Union 34, at the half.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 05, 2011, 07:37:03 PM
Think the fouls on Hoover and Cusworth will have an effect? And Berger for that matter, as she led WU scorers in the last meeting...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jaybird44 on March 05, 2011, 07:43:46 PM
I'm more concerned about the two fouls each on Alex and Kathryn Berger.  Berger fouled out vs. Chicago in the last game of the regular season, and Wash-U suffered a rare home loss as a result.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 05, 2011, 07:47:37 PM
Makes sense as Berger is the leading scorer. Hoover kept this close, as Hope was able to hold Berger to 3 in the half.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 05, 2011, 07:49:45 PM
BTW, the fourth member of the sectional will be Greensboro, who beat Juniata by 2.  (The third, of course, is the winner of Thomas More/Mount Union.)  Let's make sure the first two are Hope and Calvin! ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 05, 2011, 07:53:43 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 05, 2011, 07:49:45 PM
BTW, the fourth member of the sectional will be Greensboro, who beat Juniata by 2.  (The third, of course, is the winner of Thomas More/Mount Union.)  Let's make sure the first two are Hope and Calvin! ;)

Calvin has a game... Down by 13.  :-[
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 05, 2011, 08:23:35 PM
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on March 05, 2011, 07:53:43 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 05, 2011, 07:49:45 PM
BTW, the fourth member of the sectional will be Greensboro, who beat Juniata by 2.  (The third, of course, is the winner of Thomas More/Mount Union.)  Let's make sure the first two are Hope and Calvin! ;)

Calvin has a game... Down by 13.  :-[

Chipping away!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: GoKnights68 on March 05, 2011, 08:25:02 PM
Both game are going to be close.  Calvin appears to be in trouble, though.  Down by 7 with a couple minutes left.  Need some threes, quickly
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: GoKnights68 on March 05, 2011, 08:26:51 PM
Hope women in trouble as well.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 05, 2011, 08:28:33 PM
I'm afraid both Hope and Calvin are done!    :'(
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: GoKnights68 on March 05, 2011, 08:29:01 PM
Not a good night in the MIAA.  Good seasons Hope and Calvin women.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 05, 2011, 08:35:23 PM
Not enough at the end for either team.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 05, 2011, 08:39:50 PM
Very good seasons for both Calvin and Hope.  Thought for sure one of them would advance, but just wasn't meant to be.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 05, 2011, 08:45:54 PM
With only 2 sr's on this years team I am looking forward to next year already.  The two seniors didn't play alot of minutes so shouldn't be that hard to replace.  I figured this was a great learning year for the Knights.  They have several areas they need to work on, and have learned they can play with the best.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: big_fella on March 05, 2011, 08:55:45 PM
Calvin had the game down to 2 points and the ball and they missed 2 very close shots, that would have tied the score.  The Chicago comes down and scores and gets fouled and converts the 3 point play.  The Knights could never get over the hump and credit Chicago, they played like the #5 team in the country.  Very balanced and poised.

Congrats on a great season to for the Lady Knights!!  I think with another year of "seasoning", they should be poised for a long run in the tournament.

Carissa Verkaik was amazing again tonight, playing like the 2 time MIAA MVP.  She had 23 pts, 17 reb, 7 blocks.  She played great to get the Knights back into the game, but towards the end of the game, I thought that they didn't go to her enough.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: fannie on March 05, 2011, 09:54:07 PM
Bummer...as a Hope fan the "pod of death" was exactly that!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 05, 2011, 10:28:55 PM
A bit of history.  In 2006, Hope won the national championship, after having a phenomenal shooting game that was just enough to beat the heavily favored Washington U, 92 to 89.  Hope hit shot after shot, ending 35 of 65 for the night, including 11 of 24 from 3-point land.

Tonight was the evil twin of that game, where (in my mind) a superior Hope team had an extraordinarily cold shooting night--18 of 64, including many missed layups and missed 3-pointers that we're going down last night.  Cold shooting (I know, credit the defense for some, but not all of that) was combined with being outrebounded 38 to 50 . . . after the reverse rebounding difference (50 to 36) in their December matchup.  I guess it's the uncertainty--the random variability--of sport that adds to its excitement.  You just never know.

In 2006, I felt that if Wash U and Hope we're to play 10 games, Wash U would win most, but they ran into a red hot Hope.  Tonight seemed the mirror image of that game, and thus a sad end (including to the DeVos win streak) to a phenomenal 4 years for the seniors who gave us such pleasure and represented Hope with such class.  Thank you Hope women, and may good memories and friendships last you a lifetime.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 06, 2011, 09:47:30 AM
thank you hope team and seniors it was great to watch you for 4 years a really great job thank you
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: formerd3db on March 06, 2011, 01:26:55 PM
While I rarely post on these basketball boards (I am a football guy a heart, sorry ;D ), I do follow Hope and MIAA basketball during the season as well as reading the posts here.  Regarding last evening's posts here for both Hope's men's and women's basketball teams, I think you have all captured the essence of what this is all about and it couldn't have been said any better.  Certainly, no one likes to lose, especially at this point in the season after reaching the national tournament rounds.  However, the experience of even getting to this point just adds to that of the four years of these student-athletes careers with memories that will last their lifetimes and, later on, the losses will not matter, but rather what will is the important "stuff".  Yet, all of you know that already.  Anyway, I join everyone here in congratulating both the Hope men's and women's basketball team and coaching staffs (and Calvin's too) for a great season.


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on March 06, 2011, 03:02:49 PM
I love coacj Mo. I wouldn't trade him for anything or anyone. Well, maybe for Pat Summitt.

That being said, Coach Morehouse is the reason we lost last night. at one point in the first half we were being out rebounded 21-9. He was very slow to react to this. But my biggest problem is the last four minutes of the game. with 4 minutes to go Hope was down by six and had only two fouls. Instead of starting to foul to catch up to six fouls coach Mo did nothing. It wasn't until there was only a minute and a half left that he had the girls fstart to foul so that we could sen them to the line, at this point we still had only three fouls! What did coach Mo do now that we had enough fouls to send them to the line? He let Washington U. run the clock down 25 seconds instead of fouling them, and then Wash U. got two more points! At this point he finally start to foul to try to get the ball back, but there was less then a minute left at this point and we were down by 9. We just didn't have enough time left.

If Coach Morehouse had just started to foul earlier we would have had enough time to try to catch up. If he hadn't let them run 25 seconds off the clock we would have had more time to catch up.

I love you Coach, but you cost us this game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 06, 2011, 03:18:03 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on March 06, 2011, 03:02:49 PM
I love coacj Mo. I wouldn't trade him for anything or anyone. Well, maybe for Pat Summitt.

. . . . . If Coach Morehouse had just started to foul earlier we would have had enough time to try to catch up. If he hadn't let them run 25 seconds off the clock we would have had more time to catch up.

I love you Coach, but you cost us this game.
Dutchfan, thanks for sharing your perspective and your affirmation of Coach Mo.  But I beg to differ on two counts.  The game was lost by the time of that late foul (Hope was 7 points behind when the 6th foul occurred with 1:19 remaining, and the seconds then elapsed).  Moreover, the game was lost by missed layups that had nothing to do with coaching.  And speaking of coaching, I, too, love Coach Mo . . . and the infectious positive spirit his team exudes (which I take to be a credit to him).  I've often thought that if I were a parent of a recruit, and witnessed the joy and enthusiasm of Hope's team, I'd want my daughter there.

I also respect his demeanor, and the respect he shows for other teams and coaches, including in his congratulations to them at the game's end last night.  Would I rather see Pat Summitt's scowling face on Hope's sideline or Coach Mo's?  For Hope College, I'd choose Coach Mo in a heartbeat.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 06, 2011, 05:36:49 PM
I wasn't able to attend the Calvin-Chicago game, but both reports I read about it mentioned how physical Chicago was and that it took the Knights by surprise, took them some time to adjust. Verkaik was quoted in the press as calling it a learning experience.

And in fact, Calvin was behind by 9 six minutes into the game and behind by 13 after 10 minutes. They outscored Chicago for the remainder of the game but weren't quite able to catch up.

For anyone who was there, what was the game like?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 06, 2011, 11:10:31 PM
This weekend's losses by Hope and Calvin put an end to a really impressive streak in my opinion.  The MIAA (all Hope and Calvin) had played for a Sectional Championship 6 years in a row, and 7 of the previous 8 tournaments.

Going back to 1999, the MIAA had a representative in 10 of 12 Sweet 16's.  Only missing out in 2001 and 2004. That is really impressive.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mark_reichert on March 07, 2011, 12:35:08 AM
Quote from: sac on March 06, 2011, 11:10:31 PM
This weekend's losses by Hope and Calvin put an end to a really impressive streak in my opinion.  The MIAA (all Hope and Calvin) had played for a Sectional Championship 6 years in a row, and 7 of the previous 8 tournaments.

Going back to 1999, the MIAA had a representative in 10 of 12 Sweet 16's.  Only missing out in 2001 and 2004. That is really impressive.

Just a point of observation: the UAA has had at least one representative in the sweet sixteen every year from 1994 onwards, except for 2002 and 2005, when WashU lost to the eventual national champions Stevens Point and Millikan in the second round.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Happy Calvin Guy on March 07, 2011, 10:50:38 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on March 06, 2011, 05:36:49 PM
I wasn't able to attend the Calvin-Chicago game, but both reports I read about it mentioned how physical Chicago was and that it took the Knights by surprise, took them some time to adjust. Verkaik was quoted in the press as calling it a learning experience.

And in fact, Calvin was behind by 9 six minutes into the game and behind by 13 after 10 minutes. They outscored Chicago for the remainder of the game but weren't quite able to catch up.

For anyone who was there, what was the game like?


I was at the Calvin-Chicago game and can share a few observations.  Yes, Chicago was very physical. They came out and hit Calvin in the mouth, going up 17-4 out of the gates.  Calvin did adjust and in my opinion could have won the game if they had just a few more minutes of time.  They showed a lot of heart and clawed back the rest of game after that initial run by Chicago.    A couple of the Chicago players finished with 4 fouls (#11 and #44, both had the same last name, sisters?) and the game's tenor would have changed significantly without those two on the floor.   

I was also impressed with the Calvin students.  They were more vocal that night than a lot of the men's games I've been to. 

Verkaik made some very tough shots all night but unfortunately missed a couple of easier ones down the stretch that would've made a big difference in the outcome and how the last couple minutes played out.  Chicago also hit their free throws down the stretch better than the Knights who missed several around the 5 or 6 minute mark. 

Overall, this Calvin team has a lot to be proud of this year.  Beating an awesome Hope team twice, and winning both the regular season and conference tourney championships. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Intangir on March 07, 2011, 11:52:45 AM
Quote from: Happy Calvin Guy on March 07, 2011, 10:50:38 AM


I was at the Calvin-Chicago game and can share a few observations.  Yes, Chicago was very physical. They came out and hit Calvin in the mouth, going up 17-4 out of the gates.  Calvin did adjust and in my opinion could have won the game if they had just a few more minutes of time.  They showed a lot of heart and clawed back the rest of game after that initial run by Chicago.    A couple of the Chicago players finished with 4 fouls (#11 and #44, both had the same last name, sisters?) and the game's tenor would have changed significantly without those two on the floor.   

I was also impressed with the Calvin students.  They were more vocal that night than a lot of the men's games I've been to. 

Verkaik made some very tough shots all night but unfortunately missed a couple of easier ones down the stretch that would've made a big difference in the outcome and how the last couple minutes played out.  Chicago also hit their free throws down the stretch better than the Knights who missed several around the 5 or 6 minute mark. 

Overall, this Calvin team has a lot to be proud of this year.  Beating an awesome Hope team twice, and winning both the regular season and conference tourney championships. 

I was there Saturday and agree with what you said - Chicago did play very physical - and very good - defense. They did foul a lot but Calvin was forced all night into taking bad or off balance shots and I think that's why they did miss a few that seemed like they should have gone in, they were very well defended every time they shot.  Lots of credit to Chicago for hitting key shots when they needed to, all through the 2nd half Calvin would start to crawl back into the game, getting to within 7, and then 6, and then 5, and every time Chicago would score 4-5 straight points to put their lead back out of reach.  Calvin did finally get to within 2 but Chicago's lead was right back to 6 or 7 a minute or two later.  It was uncanny.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: David Collinge on March 07, 2011, 11:53:50 AM
Quote from: mark_reichert on March 07, 2011, 12:35:08 AM
Quote from: sac on March 06, 2011, 11:10:31 PM
This weekend's losses by Hope and Calvin put an end to a really impressive streak in my opinion.  The MIAA (all Hope and Calvin) had played for a Sectional Championship 6 years in a row, and 7 of the previous 8 tournaments.

Going back to 1999, the MIAA had a representative in 10 of 12 Sweet 16's.  Only missing out in 2001 and 2004. That is really impressive.

Just a point of observation: the UAA has had at least one representative in the sweet sixteen every year from 1994 onwards, except for 2002 and 2005, when WashU lost to the eventual national champions Stevens Point and Millikan in the second round.

The NCAC has had at least one team in the Sweet Sixteen since....since....oh, never mind.  :-[
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on March 07, 2011, 04:41:49 PM
Quote from: realist on March 05, 2011, 08:39:50 PM
Very good seasons for both Calvin and Hope.  Thought for sure one of them would advance, but just wasn't meant to be.
Hey, realist, don't you think those coaches should be fired?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: GoKnights68 on March 07, 2011, 08:05:10 PM
Off topic, but in case any one didn't know, Davenport's women team, an NAIA team located near Grand Rapids, is 33-0.   The NAIA starts their national tourney this Wednesday in which they have 32 teams.  It'd be cool if they complete their season with a national championship and go 38-0.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 07, 2011, 08:38:01 PM
The GVSU women also made the D2 field.  Some good women's and men's small college basketball around Grand Rapids in recent years.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 08, 2011, 11:04:17 AM
Quote from: wiz on March 07, 2011, 04:41:49 PM
Quote from: realist on March 05, 2011, 08:39:50 PM
Very good seasons for both Calvin and Hope.  Thought for sure one of them would advance, but just wasn't meant to be.
Hey, realist, don't you think those coaches should be fired?

Wiz:  You really need to get a grip or perhaps mature some.   :(

Why would anyone fault either Hope or Calvin's coaches.  Both of them have done excellent jobs.  Not only this year, but for quite a few years now.  Both programs are proven winners.  This past Sat. Calvin got beat by the number 5/6 team in the country, and Calvin made a game of it.  No shame in what I witnessed.  A bounce here, a put back there, and they are still playing.  Reading the recap on Hope, by people that were there again no shame.  Hope came, and Hope played.  No one wins everytime.  

There is a considerable difference currently between the Calvin's mens and womens programs.  Frankly there is no excuse for either program to fall below a 20 win season repeatedly.   The men's bball team is one of the few sports offered at Calvin that has not made it to post season play this year, and for many they go repeatedly.  If you want to win you have to make winning a priority.  Frankly I just don't see that, and I don't hear that from KVS.   Yes, I hear the lip service to winning, but I also have heard 5 years of repeated excuses about why the program falls below 20 wins.  I have watched 15 yearrs of essentially the same game plan.  Nothing new, nothing bold, nothing creative, nothing original.  Few changes in the starting line up.  Once he makes a decision, it's made.  
I watch KVS, and I watch his players, and frankly it just doesn't look like either he or his players are having fun.  Against Hope he came out and coached not to lose in the last game.  This is in contrast to the first game where the team really played to win.  
If you are happy with KVS, and his record that is fine with me.   :)

I think his record the past 5 years stinks, and is an embarassment to the entire college.  

 

For Calvin, and Coach Ross I surely hope we don't spiral down into accepting the past 5 years performance of the men's team as the new level for good or acceptable.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 08, 2011, 03:22:30 PM
Quote from: realist on March 08, 2011, 11:04:17 AM
Quote from: wiz on March 07, 2011, 04:41:49 PM
Quote from: realist on March 05, 2011, 08:39:50 PM
Very good seasons for both Calvin and Hope.  Thought for sure one of them would advance, but just wasn't meant to be.
Hey, realist, don't you think those coaches should be fired?

Wiz:  You really need to get a grip or perhaps mature some.   :(

Realist, I appreciate your comments on the women's coaches . . . though I took Wiz's comment to be tongue-in-cheek.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 08, 2011, 05:10:50 PM
Gosh I totally missed the  :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 09, 2011, 08:42:29 AM
Quote from: realist on March 08, 2011, 11:04:17 AM
Quote from: wiz on March 07, 2011, 04:41:49 PM
Quote from: realist on March 05, 2011, 08:39:50 PM
Very good seasons for both Calvin and Hope.  Thought for sure one of them would advance, but just wasn't meant to be.
Hey, realist, don't you think those coaches should be fired?

Wiz:  You really need to get a grip or perhaps mature some.   :(

Why would anyone fault either Hope or Calvin's coaches.  Both of them have done excellent jobs.  Not only this year, but for quite a few years now.  Both programs are proven winners.  This past Sat. Calvin got beat by the number 5/6 team in the country, and Calvin made a game of it.  No shame in what I witnessed.  A bounce here, a put back there, and they are still playing.  Reading the recap on Hope, by people that were there again no shame.  Hope came, and Hope played.  No one wins everytime.  

There is a considerable difference currently between the Calvin's mens and womens programs.  Frankly there is no excuse for either program to fall below a 20 win season repeatedly.   The men's bball team is one of the few sports offered at Calvin that has not made it to post season play this year, and for many they go repeatedly.  If you want to win you have to make winning a priority.  Frankly I just don't see that, and I don't hear that from KVS.   Yes, I hear the lip service to winning, but I also have heard 5 years of repeated excuses about why the program falls below 20 wins.  I have watched 15 yearrs of essentially the same game plan.  Nothing new, nothing bold, nothing creative, nothing original.  Few changes in the starting line up.  Once he makes a decision, it's made.  
I watch KVS, and I watch his players, and frankly it just doesn't look like either he or his players are having fun.  Against Hope he came out and coached not to lose in the last game.  This is in contrast to the first game where the team really played to win.  
If you are happy with KVS, and his record that is fine with me.   :)

I think his record the past 5 years stinks, and is an embarassment to the entire college.  

 

For Calvin, and Coach Ross I surely hope we don't spiral down into accepting the past 5 years performance of the men's team as the new level for good or acceptable.

When was the last time Coach Ross won 20 games without having a league MVP on his team?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on March 09, 2011, 12:06:10 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 09, 2011, 08:42:29 AM
Quote from: realist on March 08, 2011, 11:04:17 AM
Quote from: wiz on March 07, 2011, 04:41:49 PM
Quote from: realist on March 05, 2011, 08:39:50 PM
Very good seasons for both Calvin and Hope.  Thought for sure one of them would advance, but just wasn't meant to be.
Hey, realist, don't you think those coaches should be fired?

Wiz:  You really need to get a grip or perhaps mature some.   :(

Why would anyone fault either Hope or Calvin's coaches.  Both of them have done excellent jobs.  Not only this year, but for quite a few years now.  Both programs are proven winners.  This past Sat. Calvin got beat by the number 5/6 team in the country, and Calvin made a game of it.  No shame in what I witnessed.  A bounce here, a put back there, and they are still playing.  Reading the recap on Hope, by people that were there again no shame.  Hope came, and Hope played.  No one wins everytime.  

There is a considerable difference currently between the Calvin's mens and womens programs.  Frankly there is no excuse for either program to fall below a 20 win season repeatedly.   The men's bball team is one of the few sports offered at Calvin that has not made it to post season play this year, and for many they go repeatedly.  If you want to win you have to make winning a priority.  Frankly I just don't see that, and I don't hear that from KVS.   Yes, I hear the lip service to winning, but I also have heard 5 years of repeated excuses about why the program falls below 20 wins.  I have watched 15 yearrs of essentially the same game plan.  Nothing new, nothing bold, nothing creative, nothing original.  Few changes in the starting line up.  Once he makes a decision, it's made.  
I watch KVS, and I watch his players, and frankly it just doesn't look like either he or his players are having fun.  Against Hope he came out and coached not to lose in the last game.  This is in contrast to the first game where the team really played to win.  
If you are happy with KVS, and his record that is fine with me.   :)

I think his record the past 5 years stinks, and is an embarassment to the entire college.  

 

For Calvin, and Coach Ross I surely hope we don't spiral down into accepting the past 5 years performance of the men's team as the new level for good or acceptable.

When was the last time Coach Ross won 20 games without having a league MVP on his team?

The last time was 04-05.  Calvin went 25-5 under Coach Ross with no MVP (Albion's Sarah Caskey was MVP).  And the year before that in 03-04, Calvin went 23-4 with no MVP (Alma's Karen Hall was MVP)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 09, 2011, 01:29:51 PM
I took sometime to look at the stats for the 5 Hope seniors and their careers playing for the Flying Dutch.  Looking at the team over those four years, the record is pretty amazing:



      Won   Lost     %
Overall record      117       0.936
Home      71       0.986
Away      39       0.907
Neutral      7       0.700
MIAA play      62       0.969
MIAA Tournament      11       0.917
NCAA Tournament      12       0.750

I'll post their individual career stats separately.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 09, 2011, 01:37:10 PM
Looking at the individuals stats for the 5 Hope seniors, I compiled their rank  for the various stat categoreis - top 10 for both season and career.  It's amazing that this group ranks in nearly every category.

Carrie Snikkers
Category     Season   Career    
Points      4th, 5th   2nd     
PPG      10th   3rd     
FG Made      4th, 6th, 10th   2nd     
FG Attempted      4th   3rd     
3FG Made         8th     
3FG Attempted         7th     
3FG %         9th     
FT Made      8th   8th     
FT Attempted         8th     
FT%      10th        
Rebounds      8th   5th     
RPG         6th     
Blocks      1st, 2nd, 7th, 9th   1st     
Steals         10th     
Games Started         10th     

Erika Bruinsma
Category     Season   Career    
Blocks         8th     
Games played         5th     

Miranda DeKuiper
Category     Season   Career    
Games played         1st     

Rachel Kutney
Category     Season   Career    
FG %      3rd   5th     
Blocks         10th     
Games played         7th     

Lauren Geers
Lauren did not break the top 10 in any category, despite playing in 113 games, averaging 13.4 minutes per game, and typically out-hustling everyone on the floor.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2011, 03:42:09 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 09, 2011, 08:42:29 AM
Quote from: realist on March 08, 2011, 11:04:17 AM
Quote from: wiz on March 07, 2011, 04:41:49 PM
Quote from: realist on March 05, 2011, 08:39:50 PM
Very good seasons for both Calvin and Hope.  Thought for sure one of them would advance, but just wasn't meant to be.
Hey, realist, don't you think those coaches should be fired?

Wiz:  You really need to get a grip or perhaps mature some.   :(

Why would anyone fault either Hope or Calvin's coaches.  Both of them have done excellent jobs.  Not only this year, but for quite a few years now.  Both programs are proven winners.  This past Sat. Calvin got beat by the number 5/6 team in the country, and Calvin made a game of it.  No shame in what I witnessed.  A bounce here, a put back there, and they are still playing.  Reading the recap on Hope, by people that were there again no shame.  Hope came, and Hope played.  No one wins everytime.  

There is a considerable difference currently between the Calvin's mens and womens programs.  Frankly there is no excuse for either program to fall below a 20 win season repeatedly.   The men's bball team is one of the few sports offered at Calvin that has not made it to post season play this year, and for many they go repeatedly.  If you want to win you have to make winning a priority.  Frankly I just don't see that, and I don't hear that from KVS.   Yes, I hear the lip service to winning, but I also have heard 5 years of repeated excuses about why the program falls below 20 wins.  I have watched 15 yearrs of essentially the same game plan.  Nothing new, nothing bold, nothing creative, nothing original.  Few changes in the starting line up.  Once he makes a decision, it's made.  
I watch KVS, and I watch his players, and frankly it just doesn't look like either he or his players are having fun.  Against Hope he came out and coached not to lose in the last game.  This is in contrast to the first game where the team really played to win.  
If you are happy with KVS, and his record that is fine with me.   :)

I think his record the past 5 years stinks, and is an embarassment to the entire college.  

 

For Calvin, and Coach Ross I surely hope we don't spiral down into accepting the past 5 years performance of the men's team as the new level for good or acceptable.

When was the last time Coach Ross won 20 games without having a league MVP on his team?

KS:  You really might not want to continue this comparison between Coach Ross, and KVS.

In the last 8 years:           Ross                  KVS
20 win seasons                    6                     2
MVP"S                                   4                     0   (KVS  4 in 14 years)

Ross inherited Lisa Winkle for his first 2 mvp's, but than KVS also inherited Aaron Winkle for his first 2 mvp's as well.

Trying to make one coach look bad to make another coach look decent is a losing proposition.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 09, 2011, 04:57:20 PM
I'm not setting out to make anyone look bad, just wondering if being blessed with two of the best players in the team's history has more to do with the record than simply coaching.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on March 09, 2011, 08:44:30 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 09, 2011, 04:57:20 PM
I'm not setting out to make anyone look bad, just wondering if being blessed with two of the best players in the team's history has more to do with the record than simply coaching.

Exactly
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 09, 2011, 09:32:33 PM
Quote from: wiz on March 09, 2011, 08:44:30 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 09, 2011, 04:57:20 PM
I'm not setting out to make anyone look bad, just wondering if being blessed with two of the best players in the team's history has more to do with the record than simply coaching.

Exactly

I guess that makes their 20 win seasons equal if you take away those two girls. But he did get CV to Calvin, so you got to give him that right? So 4 is better than 2... But this is a silly argument  ::) :P
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: fannie on March 10, 2011, 02:14:45 PM
Is it too early to start asking about those who may be joining the Hope team next year via transfer or coming in as freshman???  ;-)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 11, 2011, 04:44:06 PM
Trying to compare the relative merits of MIAA women's coaches like John Ross or Brian Morehouse to their counterparts on the men's side strikes me as a bit of a fool's errand. The difference between a good and bad team on the women's side is far greater than on the men's. Teams at the bottom of the MIAA have essentially no chance of beating a team like Calvin or Hope. That's not true of the MIAA men. Take Kalamazoo for example. Their women's team has been awful for several years and finished in a tie for seventh (out of nine teams) this past season. As it happens, even though I don't watch the Calvin women nearly as much as the men, I did see the Lady Knights play Kalamazoo twice in the last three years. I don't mean to be mean but the Hornet women were awful. They had no chance of beating Calvin and have been regularly toasted when playing the teams at the top of the league. Meanwhile the Kalamazoo men's team finished this season in sixth place (out of eight teams)--basically the same position as their female counterparts. Yet during the regular season the men took Hope into OT at DeVos and beat Calvin at Van Noord. Stuff like that happens in the men's game making it a lot tougher to get a 20 win season even if you have the team to do it.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 11, 2011, 05:57:36 PM
oldknight, that is not just an MIAA phenomenon.  There is far more parity in the men's game in general than in the women's - as a glance at just about any week's edition of Darryl Nester's "How they fared" on the men's and women's top 25 board would show.  He highlights losses among top 25 and ORV teams in red - the men's board is always much 'bloodier' than the women's.

Excluding games between teams both receiving votes (thus, someone had to lose), I can recall plenty of weeks where no more than 2 or 3 women's scores were in red, but the norm for the men is around 10-12, and 20+ is not a rarity.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 11, 2011, 09:12:40 PM
Washington 72 Thomas More 53

Chicago 87 Greensboro 61
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 11, 2011, 10:36:13 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 11, 2011, 05:57:36 PM
oldknight, that is not just an MIAA phenomenon.  There is far more parity in the men's game in general than in the women's - as a glance at just about any week's edition of Darryl Nester's "How they fared" on the men's and women's top 25 board would show.  He highlights losses among top 25 and ORV teams in red - the men's board is always much 'bloodier' than the women's.


Yeah, we noticed that a couple of weeks ago when Calvin played the champions of the AMCC, a team that won 23 games, and the Lady Knights took a 46-8 lead early in the second half before they emptied the bench.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Out_Of_My_Kitchen on March 12, 2011, 12:54:43 PM
Just wanted to say way to go to Hope College for opening up their gym to the local High School Scool Team who lost a player a week ago.  Shows what kind of class and compassion Hope has for people.  Classy people to say the least. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 12, 2011, 08:53:30 PM
Washington 63 Chicago 58
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 12, 2011, 10:22:39 PM
The IWU women get (ok, I'm feeling some envy) what the Hope women longed for two and three years ago--the chance to play in a Final Four on their home court . . . after coming from 16 behind against George Fox with just over 10 minutes to play, and still 8 points behind with 3 minutes to play. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ziggy on March 13, 2011, 11:49:59 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 01, 2011, 09:33:42 AM
From the bracket, is it fair to guess that the hidden GL regional ranking go like this?

Thomas More
Calvin
Hope
Denison
Hanover
DePauw

This turned out to be correct: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2011/03/01/ncaas-final-regional-ranking/
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: GoKnights68 on March 14, 2011, 10:11:26 PM
Davenport University women (37-0) won tonight to reach the National Championship game played tomorrow.  It'd be awesome to see them finish their season at 38-0 with national title.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 14, 2011, 10:36:00 PM
CU men will be playing for national title as well tomorrow.  One of their losses was to Calvin in HOF. 
Last time CU won national title Calvin was only team to beat them that year (if my memory serves correct.)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on March 15, 2011, 07:56:01 AM
D3Hoops all region teams announced:

http://d3hoops.com/awards/all-region/2010-11/index
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on March 15, 2011, 08:02:59 AM
Congratulations to Carissa Verkaik on being named Great Lakes Region Player of the Year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 15, 2011, 09:37:10 AM
Quote from: GoKnights68 on March 14, 2011, 10:11:26 PM
Davenport University women (37-0) won tonight to reach the National Championship game played tomorrow.  It'd be awesome to see them finish their season at 38-0 with national title.

While a perfect season would be nice, I'm going to be HOPEing for a DU loss in the Championship game - they are playing defending National Champion Northwestern (IA) - my alma mater.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on March 15, 2011, 11:48:53 AM
Carissa Verkaik named player of year on the D3hoops.com all Great Lakes region team.  Carrie Snikkers also 1st team.
http://www.d3hoops.com/awards/all-region/2010-11/greatlakes-women
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: GoKnights68 on March 15, 2011, 03:39:37 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 15, 2011, 09:37:10 AM
Quote from: GoKnights68 on March 14, 2011, 10:11:26 PM
Davenport University women (37-0) won tonight to reach the National Championship game played tomorrow.  It'd be awesome to see them finish their season at 38-0 with national title.

While a perfect season would be nice, I'm going to be HOPEing for a DU loss in the Championship game - they are playing defending National Champion Northwestern (IA) - my alma mater.

I see.  Good luck!  I know DU beat them in the beginning of the year, but I believe that was at DU's homecourt!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 15, 2011, 10:10:35 PM
Quote from: GoKnights68 on March 15, 2011, 03:39:37 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 15, 2011, 09:37:10 AM
Quote from: GoKnights68 on March 14, 2011, 10:11:26 PM
Davenport University women (37-0) won tonight to reach the National Championship game played tomorrow.  It'd be awesome to see them finish their season at 38-0 with national title.

While a perfect season would be nice, I'm going to be HOPEing for a DU loss in the Championship game - they are playing defending National Champion Northwestern (IA) - my alma mater.

I see.  Good luck!  I know DU beat them in the beginning of the year, but I believe that was at DU's homecourt!

Northwestern avenges their only loss of the season, beating Davenport in the NAIA championship game 88-83.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 15, 2011, 10:16:44 PM
With no dog in the NAIA fight, congratulations to FDF. ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on March 15, 2011, 10:20:12 PM
Congrats FDF!!!  What a great game.  You can be VERY proud of your Alma Mater, especially since they were playing without two key players!!  Whooohooo!!! :D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 16, 2011, 09:29:23 AM
What a great game - and two amazing teams.  Each finished a fabulous season with only a single loss - and that was to each other.  There is much joy in Orange City today, for sure.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Happy Calvin Guy on March 16, 2011, 02:45:50 PM
Congrats to Carissa Verkaik, d3hoops.com Great Lakes region Player of the Year!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sflzman on March 16, 2011, 09:28:52 PM
Full women's All-Region Team....

Player of the Year: Carissa Verkaik, So., CalvinCoach of the Year: Sara Lee, Denison
Rookie of the Year: Missy Spahar, F, John Carroll

First team

Pos. Player School Yr. Hometown
G Lee Jennings John Carroll Sr. Stow, Ohio
G Shaina Kaiser Denison Sr. Ostrander, Ohio
F Brittany Sedlock St. Vincent Jr. Northern Cambria, Pa.
C Carrie Snikkers Hope Sr. Jenison, Mich.
C Carissa Verkaik Calvin So. Holland, Mich.



Second team

Pos. Player School Yr. Hometown
G Serafina Nuzzo Denison So. Western Springs, Ill.
G Chelsea Tolliver Thomas More So. Morning View, Ky.
G Katie Mathews DePauw Sr. Columbia, Ill.
F Erin Hollinger Case Western Reserve Jr. Chardon, Ohio
C Nicole Dickman Thomas More Sr. Park Hills, Ky.


Third team

Pos. Player School Yr. Hometown
G Amy Oldach Penn State-Behrend Sr. Erie, Pa.
G Pam Quigney Ohio Wesleyan Sr. Mentor, Ohio
G Kori Weidt Mount Union Jr. North Olmsted, Ohio
F Christine Slater Grove City Sr. Aliquippa, Pa. 
C Molly Martin Hanover Sr. Terre Haute, Ind.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 18, 2011, 01:32:13 PM
Congratulations to Carrie Snikkers, named as an All-American by the WBCA.  Carrie is the first women's basketball player in the history of the MIAA to the team for three straight years.  This is especially remarkable considering the fact that she fully embraced the team-first approaach to the game Coach Morehouse's teams are noted for every season at Hope.  

Carrie's accomplishments include being the career leader in blocked shots (215), second in alltime scoring (1,430 points, 12.9 ppg), and top ten in field goals, 3pt goals, rebounds, and steals.  These numbers were ammased while playing only 19.7 minutes per game on average, and missing several contests due to injury.  Truly a remarkable ball player and leader, being chosen co-captain her junior and senior seasons.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on March 20, 2011, 08:09:06 AM
Congratulaions to Carissa Verkaik from Calvin for being named D3Hoops, First Team All American.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on March 21, 2011, 03:21:14 PM
Quote from: wiz on March 20, 2011, 08:09:06 AM
Congratulaions to Carissa Verkaik from Calvin for being named D3Hoops, First Team All American.

Well deserved. A great year for Carissa! Looking forward to next season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 23, 2011, 07:22:02 AM
Calvin ended the season with some pretty excellent defensive numbers:

Field goal percentage defense: .306 (#2 in the nation)
Blocked shots per game: 6.9 (#2)
Three-point field goal defense: .233 (#2)
Scoring defense: 49.2 (#5)

With everyone in the main rotation returning, I can only imagine that this will be even better next year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 23, 2011, 03:23:33 PM
In the "well that's interesting" category:

I was looking at the D3 All Americans, and I noticed the number of Michigan natives on that list - one in each of the AA teams 1-4.  Pretty impressive!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on April 08, 2011, 11:16:27 PM
There haven't been any postings on the women's board yet regarding MIAA recruits so I'll kick it off. It seems John Ross got a commitment from Kayla Engelhard, a quick 5'7" point guard from Saginaw Valley Lutheran, and a first team All-State player in Class C. I've never seen her play but she is a 1000 point scorer, and that doesn't happen all that often at the high school level. Calvin clearly has the dominant player in the MIAA in Carissa Verkaik and maybe Engelhard will prove to be that top flight guard he needs for the Lady Knights to progress a ways on the national stage. Time will tell.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on April 09, 2011, 10:40:40 AM
OK:  Any word on Carissa's sister from Holland Christian?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on April 09, 2011, 03:11:39 PM
I don't know anything about the recruiting situation, but apparently there are two Verkaik sisters on the Holland Christian team -- Breanna, a 5'11" guard, and Kally, a 5'10" guard. Breanna is a Senior and Kally is a Junior.

That means that there could be three Verkaiks on the basketball court in a couple of years, to follow up on the four Kamps who could be playing volleyball next year. In theory, of course.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on April 09, 2011, 03:36:34 PM
The announcer at the national championships in Volleyball commented on the Kamp sisters several times, and also speculated on where they might go to college. 
Watching Calvin the last 3-4 years the one piece of the puzzle they seemed to be missing was a quick guard or two that could handle pressure, and break a press or trap.   Calvin seldom pressed, and when pressed by other teams seemed prone to turnovers.  Perhaps with a quicker, and taller guard they can negate some of the tendency of other teams to press.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on April 09, 2011, 03:58:32 PM
I don't know Breanna's college plans but her parents are both Calvin grads and things seem to be working out for her older sister as a Lady Knight. Sometimes it's a detriment to a player's motivation to go the same school where a sibling has already made a name for herself but I understand the family is close knit. Calvin obviously has enough talent now to be considered a Top 20 team--possibly Top 10--and I have to believe most players considering college hoops would like to play on a very good team along with a close family member. As DK mentioned, Breanna is a 5'11" guard (actually more of a wing player) and she averaged about 10 a game last year for the Maroons. She's a good high school player who has D3 basketball abilities though she won't have the impact in college that Carissa has had. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on April 13, 2011, 01:25:16 PM
Calvin video show reviewing the women's season

http://www.vimeo.com/22346873
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: kate on April 13, 2011, 02:01:18 PM
Really fun to watch on a totally gloomy afternoon - all teams should do this - thanks for posting it!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on April 14, 2011, 01:56:30 PM
Hanah Acre from DeWitt is going to play at Calvin.  She's listed as a 5-8 Center.   DeWitt has been a very good, well coached program for several years now.  They've sent a handfull of players to D1 and D2 the last 3 or 4 seasons. 

http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/article/20110414/SPORTS02/104150304/High-school-girls-basketball-DeWitt-s-Acre-play-Calvin
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ziggy on April 22, 2011, 02:51:26 PM
Look for more women's coverage from the blog: http://tomaroonandgold.blogspot.com/2011/04/looking-back-and-looking-forward.html
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on April 25, 2011, 12:01:04 PM
Quote from: oldknight on April 09, 2011, 03:58:32 PM
I don't know Breanna's college plans but her parents are both Calvin grads and things seem to be working out for her older sister as a Lady Knight. Sometimes it's a detriment to a player's motivation to go the same school where a sibling has already made a name for herself but I understand the family is close knit. Calvin obviously has enough talent now to be considered a Top 20 team--possibly Top 10--and I have to believe most players considering college hoops would like to play on a very good team along with a close family member. As DK mentioned, Breanna is a 5'11" guard (actually more of a wing player) and she averaged about 10 a game last year for the Maroons. She's a good high school player who has D3 basketball abilities though she won't have the impact in college that Carissa has had. 

Breanna Verkaik will be attending Calvin in the fall.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on April 25, 2011, 12:33:29 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on April 25, 2011, 12:01:04 PM
Quote from: oldknight on April 09, 2011, 03:58:32 PM
I don't know Breanna's college plans but her parents are both Calvin grads and things seem to be working out for her older sister as a Lady Knight. Sometimes it's a detriment to a player's motivation to go the same school where a sibling has already made a name for herself but I understand the family is close knit. Calvin obviously has enough talent now to be considered a Top 20 team--possibly Top 10--and I have to believe most players considering college hoops would like to play on a very good team along with a close family member. As DK mentioned, Breanna is a 5'11" guard (actually more of a wing player) and she averaged about 10 a game last year for the Maroons. She's a good high school player who has D3 basketball abilities though she won't have the impact in college that Carissa has had. 

Breanna Verkaik will be attending Calvin in the fall.

Thanks for the confirmation.  Most of us sort of assumed this would be what happened, but one never knows for sure.  Calvin should have another good season next year if everyone returns, and stays healthy.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on April 25, 2011, 11:00:40 PM
The good news just keeps rolling in for John Ross. The Lady Knights just got a commitment from Maria DeKuiper who I'm told is a cousin to Hope's Miranda DeKuiper. Maria is a 5'11" forward, a 2000 point high school scorer and a first team All-State selection from Bradenton (FL) Christian. Needless to say, Brian Morehouse was also recruiting Maria as was FDF's alma mater, Northwestern (IA) College, the reigning NAIA national champs who beat Davenport in the finals last month. It appears Calvin is bringing in yet another stellar class, building the kind of depth that top flight teams typically have. Here are a couple of links, one a written report and the other a photo:

http://www.bradenton.com/2011/01/28/2911259/basketball-is-in-dekuipers-blood.html

http://bradenton.patch.com/articles/bayshore-girls-guzzle-smoothie-king-championship#photo-4241612
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on May 01, 2011, 06:25:41 PM
Hope's preliminary schedule for next season.  The highlight is probably the women's turn to play in Florida, also both Hope/Calvin games on Saturday.

http://www.hope.edu/pr/athletics/wbb/

One of the other teams at the Mt. St. Joseph tournament is Ohio Wesleyan, the other is not listed on the MSJ website.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on May 03, 2011, 01:12:52 PM
Calvin College women's basketball coach John Ross has been named the Women's College Coach of the Year by the (BCAM) Basketball Coaches Association of Michigan. It marks the second time that Ross has been so honored as he also received the award in 2007. The award honors a women's basketball coach at a four-year institution in the state of Michigan and includes schools at the NCAA I, II and III levels as well as at the NAIA level.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on May 11, 2011, 06:38:24 AM
WHAT A FINISH!

Congratulations to the Women's and Men's Sports Teams at Hope College!   :)


Hope Edges Calvin for MIAA Commissioner's Cup
For the 11th consecutive year, Hope College has won the MIAA Commissioner's Cup, an award based on the cumulative performance of each member school in the league's 18 sports for men and women.
Hope won the Commissioner's Cup with a total score of 206 points, while Calvin finished second with 202 points. Hope outscored Calvin 112-106 in the nine MIAA women's sports, while Calvin edged Hope 96-94 in the nine MIAA men's sports.

The final Commissioner's Cup standings are determined on the basis of each college's standings in eight of nine sports for men and eight of nine sports for women.

The Commissioner's Cup (All-Sports Award) has been presented since 1934-35. Hope has won the award 33 times, followed by Albion 14, Kalamazoo 13, Calvin 9 and Alma 5.

Commissioner's Cup Scores: 1. Hope 206. 2. Calvin 202. 3. Albion 132. 4. Adrian 125. 5. Alma 113. 6. Kalamazoo 98. 7. Olivet 95. 8. Trine 91.

Men's All-Sports Standings: 1. Calvin 96. 2. Hope 94. 3. Adrian 66. 4. Albion 61. 5. Trine 52. 6. Kalamazoo 47. 7. Alma 41. 8. Olivet 37.

Women's All-Sports Standings: 1. Hope 112. 2. Calvin 106. 3. Alma 72. 4. Albion 71. 5. Saint Mary's 69. 6. Adrian 59. 7. Olivet 58. 8. Kalamazoo 51. 9. Trine 39.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on May 13, 2011, 06:04:19 PM
Samantha Perez, Webberville to Adrian.

The Lansing State Journal says Perez was honorable mention Class A, which I find interesting because Webberville HS is Class D. :-\
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ziggy on May 14, 2011, 03:34:51 PM
Quote from: sac on May 13, 2011, 06:04:19 PM
Samantha Perez, Webberville to Adrian.

The Lansing State Journal says Perez was honorable mention Class A, which I find interesting because Webberville HS is Class D. :-\

The LSJ must be affiliated with the Holland Sentinel in some way
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Civic Minded on May 17, 2011, 04:45:29 PM
Found this in the Sentinel; Hope led in attendance for the 3rd straight year; Howard Payne 2nd, Calvin 8th.  Interesting numbers...

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/newsnow/x243995059/Hope-womens-basketball-No-1-in-NCAA-Division-III-home-attendance
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on May 17, 2011, 07:17:15 PM
Quote from: Civic Minded on May 17, 2011, 04:45:29 PM
Found this in the Sentinel; Hope led in attendance for the 3rd straight year; Howard Payne 2nd, Calvin 8th.  Interesting numbers...

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/newsnow/x243995059/Hope-womens-basketball-No-1-in-NCAA-Division-III-home-attendance

I was surprised to hear that Calvin came in as high as eighth. However, if you take away the Hope game at the end of the MIAA tournament and the first two NCAA tournament games, Calvin's attendance average drops from 660 to 402. If you take away the other Hope game, the average goes down to 292. I'm sure that wouldn't be close to eighth...

I'll go out on a limb and predict better numbers for next year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Civic Minded on May 17, 2011, 10:06:03 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on May 17, 2011, 07:17:15 PM
Quote from: Civic Minded on May 17, 2011, 04:45:29 PM
Found this in the Sentinel; Hope led in attendance for the 3rd straight year; Howard Payne 2nd, Calvin 8th.  Interesting numbers...

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/newsnow/x243995059/Hope-womens-basketball-No-1-in-NCAA-Division-III-home-attendance

I was surprised to hear that Calvin came in as high as eighth. However, if you take away the Hope game at the end of the MIAA tournament and the first two NCAA tournament games, Calvin's attendance average drops from 660 to 402. If you take away the other Hope game, the average goes down to 292. I'm sure that wouldn't be close to eighth...

I'll go out on a limb and predict better numbers for next year.


Does 292 sound right to you?  I know the Hope women draw nice crowds, but I dont' really know, outside of the Hope/Calvin games, what the attendance looks like at a Calvin women's game. 

Maybe there really is something to the theory that Hope draws better because there's less to do in Holland?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on May 17, 2011, 10:18:52 PM
With Carrie Snikkers graduating, and Carissa Verkaik the front-runner for national POY, if Calvin can't manage more than 292 people in games not involving Hope, SHAME, SHAME upon them!

If Carissa can't draw them in, Calvin may as well abandon women's sports (as a spectator attraction). :P
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on May 18, 2011, 08:01:40 AM
Quote from: Civic Minded on May 17, 2011, 10:06:03 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on May 17, 2011, 07:17:15 PM
Quote from: Civic Minded on May 17, 2011, 04:45:29 PM
Found this in the Sentinel; Hope led in attendance for the 3rd straight year; Howard Payne 2nd, Calvin 8th.  Interesting numbers...

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/newsnow/x243995059/Hope-womens-basketball-No-1-in-NCAA-Division-III-home-attendance

I was surprised to hear that Calvin came in as high as eighth. However, if you take away the Hope game at the end of the MIAA tournament and the first two NCAA tournament games, Calvin's attendance average drops from 660 to 402. If you take away the other Hope game, the average goes down to 292. I'm sure that wouldn't be close to eighth...

I'll go out on a limb and predict better numbers for next year.


Does 292 sound right to you?  I know the Hope women draw nice crowds, but I dont' really know, outside of the Hope/Calvin games, what the attendance looks like at a Calvin women's game. 

Maybe there really is something to the theory that Hope draws better because there's less to do in Holland?

Yeah, 292 for non-special games sounds about right. It's pretty poor.

On the other hand, Hope's attendance was in the same ballpark until 6 years ago or so. In 2003/04, average attendance for a Hope home game was 414 -- including the Calvin game and playoff games.

Maybe as the Knights' success increases, so will attendance.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on May 18, 2011, 09:51:30 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on May 18, 2011, 08:01:40 AM
Quote from: Civic Minded on May 17, 2011, 10:06:03 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on May 17, 2011, 07:17:15 PM
Quote from: Civic Minded on May 17, 2011, 04:45:29 PM
Found this in the Sentinel; Hope led in attendance for the 3rd straight year; Howard Payne 2nd, Calvin 8th.  Interesting numbers...

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/newsnow/x243995059/Hope-womens-basketball-No-1-in-NCAA-Division-III-home-attendance

I was surprised to hear that Calvin came in as high as eighth. However, if you take away the Hope game at the end of the MIAA tournament and the first two NCAA tournament games, Calvin's attendance average drops from 660 to 402. If you take away the other Hope game, the average goes down to 292. I'm sure that wouldn't be close to eighth...

I'll go out on a limb and predict better numbers for next year.


Does 292 sound right to you?  I know the Hope women draw nice crowds, but I dont' really know, outside of the Hope/Calvin games, what the attendance looks like at a Calvin women's game. 

Maybe there really is something to the theory that Hope draws better because there's less to do in Holland?

Yeah, 292 for non-special games sounds about right. It's pretty poor.

On the other hand, Hope's attendance was in the same ballpark until 6 years ago or so. In 2003/04, average attendance for a Hope home game was 414 -- including the Calvin game and playoff games.

Maybe as the Knights' success increases, so will attendance.


Of course Hope women were playing at the Dow Center through the 04-05 season.  Not the most fan friendly place for games.  I'm sure the DeVos is a big reason for the increase in attendance.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Civic Minded on May 19, 2011, 05:52:19 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on May 18, 2011, 09:51:30 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on May 18, 2011, 08:01:40 AM
Quote from: Civic Minded on May 17, 2011, 10:06:03 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on May 17, 2011, 07:17:15 PM
Quote from: Civic Minded on May 17, 2011, 04:45:29 PM
Found this in the Sentinel; Hope led in attendance for the 3rd straight year; Howard Payne 2nd, Calvin 8th.  Interesting numbers...

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/newsnow/x243995059/Hope-womens-basketball-No-1-in-NCAA-Division-III-home-attendance

I was surprised to hear that Calvin came in as high as eighth. However, if you take away the Hope game at the end of the MIAA tournament and the first two NCAA tournament games, Calvin's attendance average drops from 660 to 402. If you take away the other Hope game, the average goes down to 292. I'm sure that wouldn't be close to eighth...

I'll go out on a limb and predict better numbers for next year.


Does 292 sound right to you?  I know the Hope women draw nice crowds, but I dont' really know, outside of the Hope/Calvin games, what the attendance looks like at a Calvin women's game. 

Maybe there really is something to the theory that Hope draws better because there's less to do in Holland?

Yeah, 292 for non-special games sounds about right. It's pretty poor.

On the other hand, Hope's attendance was in the same ballpark until 6 years ago or so. In 2003/04, average attendance for a Hope home game was 414 -- including the Calvin game and playoff games.

Maybe as the Knights' success increases, so will attendance.


Of course Hope women were playing at the Dow Center through the 04-05 season.  Not the most fan friendly place for games.  I'm sure the DeVos is a big reason for the increase in attendance.

Not to mention, of course, the new ketchup and mustard dispensers...   ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on May 20, 2011, 10:38:52 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on May 18, 2011, 08:01:40 AM
Quote from: Civic Minded on May 17, 2011, 10:06:03 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on May 17, 2011, 07:17:15 PM
Quote from: Civic Minded on May 17, 2011, 04:45:29 PM
Found this in the Sentinel; Hope led in attendance for the 3rd straight year; Howard Payne 2nd, Calvin 8th.  Interesting numbers...

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/newsnow/x243995059/Hope-womens-basketball-No-1-in-NCAA-Division-III-home-attendance

I was surprised to hear that Calvin came in as high as eighth. However, if you take away the Hope game at the end of the MIAA tournament and the first two NCAA tournament games, Calvin's attendance average drops from 660 to 402. If you take away the other Hope game, the average goes down to 292. I'm sure that wouldn't be close to eighth...

I'll go out on a limb and predict better numbers for next year.


Does 292 sound right to you?  I know the Hope women draw nice crowds, but I dont' really know, outside of the Hope/Calvin games, what the attendance looks like at a Calvin women's game. 

Maybe there really is something to the theory that Hope draws better because there's less to do in Holland?

Yeah, 292 for non-special games sounds about right. It's pretty poor.

On the other hand, Hope's attendance was in the same ballpark until 6 years ago or so. In 2003/04, average attendance for a Hope home game was 414 -- including the Calvin game and playoff games.

Maybe as the Knights' success increases, so will attendance.


Not sure how much better they can get.  This past season they made it as far as Hope did, and handed Hope two of their losses.  Sadly I just don't see Calvin getting fired up even when the women's teams do well.  If V ball draws well this fall as a result of winning a national championship then perhaps b ball may see a spike. :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ziggy on May 20, 2011, 02:46:58 PM
Quote from: realist on May 20, 2011, 10:38:52 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on May 18, 2011, 08:01:40 AM
Quote from: Civic Minded on May 17, 2011, 10:06:03 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on May 17, 2011, 07:17:15 PM
Quote from: Civic Minded on May 17, 2011, 04:45:29 PM
Found this in the Sentinel; Hope led in attendance for the 3rd straight year; Howard Payne 2nd, Calvin 8th.  Interesting numbers...

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/newsnow/x243995059/Hope-womens-basketball-No-1-in-NCAA-Division-III-home-attendance

I was surprised to hear that Calvin came in as high as eighth. However, if you take away the Hope game at the end of the MIAA tournament and the first two NCAA tournament games, Calvin's attendance average drops from 660 to 402. If you take away the other Hope game, the average goes down to 292. I'm sure that wouldn't be close to eighth...

I'll go out on a limb and predict better numbers for next year.


Does 292 sound right to you?  I know the Hope women draw nice crowds, but I dont' really know, outside of the Hope/Calvin games, what the attendance looks like at a Calvin women's game. 

Maybe there really is something to the theory that Hope draws better because there's less to do in Holland?

Yeah, 292 for non-special games sounds about right. It's pretty poor.

On the other hand, Hope's attendance was in the same ballpark until 6 years ago or so. In 2003/04, average attendance for a Hope home game was 414 -- including the Calvin game and playoff games.

Maybe as the Knights' success increases, so will attendance.


Not sure how much better they can get.  This past season they made it as far as Hope did, and handed Hope two of their losses.  Sadly I just don't see Calvin getting fired up even when the women's teams do well.  If V ball draws well this fall as a result of winning a national championship then perhaps b ball may see a spike. :)

ah ha, a spike. I see what you did there, very clever.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sflzman on May 20, 2011, 04:14:25 PM
Quote from: Civic Minded on May 19, 2011, 05:52:19 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on May 18, 2011, 09:51:30 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on May 18, 2011, 08:01:40 AM
Quote from: Civic Minded on May 17, 2011, 10:06:03 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on May 17, 2011, 07:17:15 PM
Quote from: Civic Minded on May 17, 2011, 04:45:29 PM
Found this in the Sentinel; Hope led in attendance for the 3rd straight year; Howard Payne 2nd, Calvin 8th.  Interesting numbers...

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/newsnow/x243995059/Hope-womens-basketball-No-1-in-NCAA-Division-III-home-attendance

I was surprised to hear that Calvin came in as high as eighth. However, if you take away the Hope game at the end of the MIAA tournament and the first two NCAA tournament games, Calvin's attendance average drops from 660 to 402. If you take away the other Hope game, the average goes down to 292. I'm sure that wouldn't be close to eighth...

I'll go out on a limb and predict better numbers for next year.


Does 292 sound right to you?  I know the Hope women draw nice crowds, but I dont' really know, outside of the Hope/Calvin games, what the attendance looks like at a Calvin women's game. 

Maybe there really is something to the theory that Hope draws better because there's less to do in Holland?

Yeah, 292 for non-special games sounds about right. It's pretty poor.

On the other hand, Hope's attendance was in the same ballpark until 6 years ago or so. In 2003/04, average attendance for a Hope home game was 414 -- including the Calvin game and playoff games.

Maybe as the Knights' success increases, so will attendance.


Of course Hope women were playing at the Dow Center through the 04-05 season.  Not the most fan friendly place for games.  I'm sure the DeVos is a big reason for the increase in attendance.

Not to mention, of course, the new ketchup and mustard dispensers...   ;)

Oh boy, this again  ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on May 27, 2011, 07:48:23 PM
News!

http://www.mlive.com/sports/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2011/05/katie_miller_brings_winning_pe.html
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Civic Minded on May 27, 2011, 10:23:42 PM
Quote from: gohope on May 27, 2011, 07:48:23 PM
News!

http://www.mlive.com/sports/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2011/05/katie_miller_brings_winning_pe.html

Thanks for posting this.  Love her DIII credentials!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on June 13, 2011, 10:43:28 AM
Didn't see this change coming: :o

http://www.mlive.com/smallcolleges/grandrapids/index.ssf/2011/06/west_michigan_area_college_bas.html
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on June 13, 2011, 04:26:00 PM
This of course needed statistical evidence........
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/w_basketball_RB/reports/y-b-ytrends.pdf


Noteworty..........women are shooting 3's a little more than they were before the introduction of the men's line in the 2008-09 season.  But 3pt FGA has been trending up across all 3 divisions for years.   3ptFG% made appears to almost be static for For D1 and D2 with a slight increase in D3.  (actually I think you could argue its down in D1)




Morehouse makes the suggestion that he'd like to see the men adopt the 30 second shot clock, which should result in more possessions.  Probably true, but it doesn't seem to result in more points.  Like the mens game women's scoring has been declining across all 3 divisions for over a decade now.



---------------------------------------------------
Statistical trends for the D2/D3 men.......
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/All-time%20Statistical%20Trends%20chart%20DIIDIII.pdf

when the new line was introduced there was a one year 'pop' for % and a high number of att's.  But 2 years later its looks like the attempts and %made have sunk below their historical average for both D2 and D3.  (I didn't look at D1)

Scoring continues to drop in D2 and D3 on the men's side
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on June 24, 2011, 02:03:48 PM
Nice write-up about Taylor Schimmel's Hope 'recruitment'.

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/feature/x848910169/Amanda-Kerkstras-sister-plans-to-join-Hope-womens-basketball-too
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Civic Minded on July 06, 2011, 04:09:00 PM
More news on Hope recruits:

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/newsnow/x1672987742/Hope-womens-basketball-lands-three-more-recruits

6 footers...nice!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on July 09, 2011, 01:00:41 AM
Quote from: Civic Minded on July 06, 2011, 04:09:00 PM
More news on Hope recruits:

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/newsnow/x1672987742/Hope-womens-basketball-lands-three-more-recruits

6 footers...nice!

This was an odd article because there seems to be one missing from what I've read, unless something changed between March and now.  (possible)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on July 09, 2011, 01:01:07 AM
Congrats to Carrie Snikkers, great opportunity.

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/newsnow/x1629186439/Hope-basketballs-Carrie-Snikkers-signs-pro-deal-with-team-in-Spain
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hoopdreams on July 09, 2011, 06:44:04 PM
First and foremost, congratulations to her.  I applaud and send well wishes to anyone who pursues a dream.

Secondly, will it be Morehouse's fault if Carrie's Euro-team doesn't win their league championship?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on July 20, 2011, 09:42:09 PM
Quote from: sac on July 09, 2011, 01:00:41 AM
Quote from: Civic Minded on July 06, 2011, 04:09:00 PM
More news on Hope recruits:

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/newsnow/x1672987742/Hope-womens-basketball-lands-three-more-recruits

6 footers...nice!

This was an odd article because there seems to be one missing from what I've read, unless something changed between March and now.  (possible)

The article reads that the coaches of these three told the Senile that they were coming to Hope.  Ergo, this does not necessarily mean that these three are the only players coming to Hope
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Panoply on July 21, 2011, 06:32:38 AM
Agreed.  I understand there are others coming in including another 6 footer not mentioned in the article.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on July 21, 2011, 10:58:54 PM
The following video appeared on the Dutch Facepage postings yesterday..  It is captioned "Team Camp - Hope College Freshmen [HQ]
by Hope College Women's Basketball (videos).  Some of our favorite banner presentations from Session II of Hope College Basketball Team Camp 2011"

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=615554377045&oid=90550132526&comments

I don't understand exactly what this means, but there are some pretty tall young ladies involved.  Does anyone know if these are incoming fresh(wo)men this fall?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Panoply on July 23, 2011, 07:54:19 AM
Quote from: wwjjdd on July 21, 2011, 10:58:54 PM
The following video appeared on the Dutch Facepage postings yesterday..  It is captioned "Team Camp - Hope College Freshmen [HQ]
by Hope College Women's Basketball (videos).  Some of our favorite banner presentations from Session II of Hope College Basketball Team Camp 2011"

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=615554377045&oid=90550132526&comments

I don't understand exactly what this means, but there are some pretty tall young ladies involved.  Does anyone know if these are incoming fresh(wo)men this fall?

I believe those are indeed some of the incoming freshmen.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on August 04, 2011, 09:52:18 AM
Quote from: wwjjdd on July 20, 2011, 09:42:09 PM
Quote from: sac on July 09, 2011, 01:00:41 AM
Quote from: Civic Minded on July 06, 2011, 04:09:00 PM
More news on Hope recruits:

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/newsnow/x1672987742/Hope-womens-basketball-lands-three-more-recruits

6 footers...nice!

This was an odd article because there seems to be one missing from what I've read, unless something changed between March and now.  (possible)

The article reads that the coaches of these three told the Senile that they were coming to Hope.  Ergo, this does not necessarily mean that these three are the only players coming to Hope

One of the young ladies mentioned in the article was a 2nd team selection in her league.  In the bios for the players their was a first team member who mentioned she would be attending Hope, but her name didn't appear in the Sentinel article.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on August 04, 2011, 09:53:45 AM
Emily Klauka from Holt will tryout for Hope.

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/sports/x242973522/Emily-Klauka-Holt-basketball-standout-to-try-out-at-Hope-College
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on August 04, 2011, 03:41:55 PM
Sounds liek a very promising recruit for Hope.  Coach Mo sure loves those post players who can play inside and out!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on August 16, 2011, 09:43:37 AM
I don't know of any coach that wouldn't like their post player to have an outside game, however not many want to see a post player taking 95 3 point shots in a season.  On second thought it probably is few coaches have enough talent to allow a post player that freedom.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on August 19, 2011, 01:09:24 PM
Interesting fact from last year's stats:

Carrie Snikkers' effective FG% on 3-pointers: .584
Carrie Snikkers' FG% on 2-pointers: .582

I would have to imagine that she drew many more fouls on her 2-pt attempts, so she was probably a more effective scorer in the post.

Still, I'm sure Carrie had the green light from any spot on the floor.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on August 19, 2011, 01:14:56 PM
Quote from: realist on August 16, 2011, 09:43:37 AM
I don't know of any coach that wouldn't like their post player to have an outside game, however not many want to see a post player taking 95 3 point shots in a season.  On second thought it probably is few coaches have enough talent to allow a post player that freedom.

Coaches want to maximize their scoring. Hope didn't lose much offense at all when Carrie shot the three, so it was OK to use her to stretch the defense often.

Carissa, on the other hand, shoots well enough from three (.361 last year, .542 eFG% from three), but she's so good in the paint (.619 FG% from two) that it's probably not wise to have her shoot from long range as part of your offensive strategy. There's a bigger opportunity cost here.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on August 20, 2011, 12:54:07 PM
In her final game for Hope versus Wash U. CS was 3-9 on 3 point attempts.
Perhaps that coach figured out it was better to let CS fire it up from outside as opposed to having to deal with her inside.  It is one thing to take advantage of a mismatch etc., and quite another to allow the opposing team to dictate play. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on August 20, 2011, 01:48:10 PM
Quote from: realist on August 20, 2011, 12:54:07 PM
In her final game for Hope versus Wash U. CS was 3-9 on 3 point attempts.
Perhaps that coach figured out it was better to let CS fire it up from outside as opposed to having to deal with her inside.  It is one thing to take advantage of a mismatch etc., and quite another to allow the opposing team to dictate play. 


She was 3-9 on 3-pt attempts and 6-13 on 2-pt attempts.

That's 1 pt. per three point shot, but only 0.92 points per two point shot.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on August 20, 2011, 03:33:33 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on August 20, 2011, 01:48:10 PM
Quote from: realist on August 20, 2011, 12:54:07 PM
In her final game for Hope versus Wash U. CS was 3-9 on 3 point attempts.
Perhaps that coach figured out it was better to let CS fire it up from outside as opposed to having to deal with her inside.  It is one thing to take advantage of a mismatch etc., and quite another to allow the opposing team to dictate play. 


She was 3-9 on 3-pt attempts and 6-13 on 2-pt attempts.

That's 1 pt. per three point shot, but only 0.92 points per two point shot.

Whatever!  All I know is Hope was 4 points short when the game ended. :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on October 18, 2011, 11:51:58 AM
Carissa Verkaik has been named a preseason 1st team All American by D3hoops.  She is the only junior on the 1st team.

http://www.d3hoops.com/awards/all-americans/women/preseason-2012
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on October 18, 2011, 01:51:56 PM
Here's a link to DIII News' preseason poll:

http://depauwwbb.wordpress.com/2011/10/14/diii-news-preseason-poll-released/

The guru reliability of this particular poll is low, but probably still fun to look at.

Calvin comes in at #8 which is reasonable. They should have a shot to be a top-five team this year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on October 21, 2011, 09:16:22 AM
I previously reported on the men's board that the women's team would have an "sneak peek" open practice on Saturday morning. Either I read the Homecoming schedule incorrectly or something changed because the current homecoming schedule shows the women's sneak peek practice is set for Friday afternoon/evening from 4-7 pm at Van Noord Arena.

http://www.calvin.edu/homecoming/schedule.html
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on October 22, 2011, 08:51:49 AM
Coach Mo has his roster set:

http://www.hope.edu/athletics/wbb/wbbrost.html
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on October 22, 2011, 06:21:25 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on October 22, 2011, 08:51:49 AM
Coach Mo has his roster set:

http://www.hope.edu/athletics/wbb/wbbrost.html

I don't think I've ever heard of a JV roster with 8 sophomores.  13 total between the two teams.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on October 22, 2011, 11:29:30 PM
I haven't looked at many JV rosters, but Hope has one of the largest I have seen. That's a sign of a strong program.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: D3GirlsHoopFan on October 23, 2011, 07:45:29 AM
Any insights on how the Hope varsity is shaping up?  They lost some talented young ladies from last year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on October 23, 2011, 02:32:43 PM
Quote from: sac on October 22, 2011, 06:21:25 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on October 22, 2011, 08:51:49 AM
Coach Mo has his roster set:

http://www.hope.edu/athletics/wbb/wbbrost.html

I don't think I've ever heard of a JV roster with 8 sophomores.  13 total between the two teams.

Were most of those players on the roster as fr. last year?  About the only way all those so's could be a negative is if that were to indicate a smaller than normal fr. class.  Last year some Hope poster mentioned Hope was concentrating recruiting in IL., and that sure appears to have happened.

D3GHF:  As a Calvin fan I really don't expect to see that much of a difference in Hope's performance this year.  Granted more changes than normal, but with the depth your coach has they deserve to be ranked. 
Calvin has the luxury of returning all but two sr's from last years team, and those two averaged less than 15 minutes combined.  Calvin is much more dependant on the performance of their star player than Hope typically is on any one player.  If she plays at the level she has the last two years Calvin will be hard for most teams to beat.  IMO if Calvin wants to make a deep run in the torunament I think this may be the year to do it, as CV has a good/experienced supporting cast.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope81 on October 23, 2011, 09:37:44 PM
Hope is going to be a much different team this year I believe.  I think they will be shorter, but perhaps quicker.  They will have to be without the All American inside as an option.  The 3 pointer may become our friend.  I suspect Ellis might move to the 2 guard and Cerone might run the point for the starters.  That would likely move Burnett to the 3.  Kussmaul is probably a lock to start at the 5.  Kust probably has the inside track on the 4 spot.  However, the key to this team will likely be any major improvement from a couple of players from last year's JV team and this remains to be seen.  I will say that I heard frosh Hannah D. was recruited by Amhurst, but chose Hope.  This may be a suprise get for Hope.  I am not familiar with the other frosh, so perhaps something will arise there as well.  It is always a big jump from high school.

Calvin certainly has to be declared the favorite in the MIAA at this point.  But as we have seen in past years, injuries and surprise player development can change the landscape as the season progresses.  If CVK continues to be healthy, she may well put up numbers that go down in MIAA history.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on October 26, 2011, 11:22:20 AM
Quote from: realist on October 23, 2011, 02:32:43 PM

Calvin has the luxury of returning all but two sr's from last years team, and those two averaged less than 15 minutes combined.  Calvin is much more dependant on the performance of their star player than Hope typically is on any one player.

Verkaik gets a lot of press, but Calvin is much more than Verkaik.

For example, did you know that Calvin set the MIAA record for all-time best defense (fewest points allowed to MIAA opponents) last year, for seasons with more than 6 games?  Calvin allowed 45.8 points per game. Hope set the second-place record the same season, allowing 46.4. (Calvin was 5th nationally, just behind #4 Hope.)

Did you know that Ally Wolffis topped the league in field goal percentage, at 63%?

Did you know that Logan Marsh, Kelsey Irwin, and Jill Thomas took three of the top four spots in the league in assist-to-turnover ratio?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on October 26, 2011, 03:56:25 PM
Speakly highly of one player in no way denigrates the contribution of her team  mates.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on October 26, 2011, 04:04:55 PM
Quote from: realist on October 26, 2011, 03:56:25 PM
Speakly highly of one player in no way denigrates the contribution of her team  mates.

Implying that Calvin is highly dependent on the performance of their star player does tend to minimize the contribution of the rest of the team, imo.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on October 26, 2011, 04:45:22 PM
I can see both points, but I think we can agree it's surely nice to have a star player assuming she's also a team player.

As a Hope fan, I think Hope81's assessment is spot on.  Without that star player, so much will depend on how the team gels and how the (previously) role players step up.  I also agree that Calvin should be really tough and has to be considered the MIAA favorite.  Tried to look up the three Hope frosh, it's great that they're all at least six footers.

Llorens and Siepker look like strong post players with versatility:
http://triblocal.com/grayslake/community/stories/2011/04/grayslake-central-senior-will-play-hoops-at-hope-college/
http://www.greggrantbasketballclub.com/BOENING-2010/profiles/siepker%20profile-2010-7.pdf

Doell looks more of a slasher, six footer who can run and defend perimeter:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iQVG6IZffU

But it IS a big jump from HS to college, the speed of the game is much different, so you can't count on the frosh to have significant impact this year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on October 26, 2011, 07:07:22 PM
Welcome rb999.  Plus k for showing up.  Please stick around.
Each of us has our own opinion.  God willing Calvin doesn't have to find out the hard way how much CV means to the team.

Granted it is a big jump from h.s., but it can be done.  I recall a fr. player just two years ago that justified her selection as MIAA mvp. 
Like you I expect Hope to be a very good team.  Having lots of interchangeable parts, and not having to rely to heavily on one player is a good thing. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope81 on October 26, 2011, 09:18:07 PM
DK, I by no means meant to lessen the abilities of a very fine supporting cast of players at Calvin.  Indeed if you removed CVK from the team, I would expect Calvin to still challenge for the top spot in the MIAA.  My point was only to say that CVK could easily put up numbers in a career that could be near the top of MIAA history.  I think she is that good.

My comment about injuries and surprise developments was not intended for CVK or any team specifically.  I do think Hope will need to receive a high level of play from an unexpected source or sources to challenge for the top spot this year.  I hope (pun intended) it happens.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on October 27, 2011, 04:32:03 PM
A Calvin roster was provided at the Winter Sports Lunch today:

http://tomaroonandgold.blogspot.com/2011/10/look-at-2011-12-womens-hoops-roster.html
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on October 27, 2011, 05:00:23 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on October 27, 2011, 04:32:03 PM
A Calvin roster was provided at the Winter Sports Lunch today:

http://tomaroonandgold.blogspot.com/2011/10/look-at-2011-12-womens-hoops-roster.html

Thanks for putting that up, KS.

It looks as though there are 9 returnees from last year, making up 9 of the 10-person rotation. Heather DeKleine, the 10th, is injured (ACL).

It looks as though none of the remaining 5 returned -- two due to graduation.  That makes space for six new players, four frosh, a sophomore transfer from Aquinas, and a sophomore from JV.

In the preseason audio interview, Ross named the newcomers:

Danielle Kapustka, transfer from Aquinas, was heavily recruited by Ross when she was in high school. Versatile point guard and shooter, plays with intensity.

Kayla Englehard -- 1st team all-state (class C) point guard.

Breanna Verkaik -- guard/post player, long, athletic. May be one of the surprises from this recruiting class.

Maria DeKuiper -- 2000 point scorer in high school. Some post moves, defends well.

Jessica Lang -- was a point guard, will convert to a post player.

Shelby Sheehan -- from JV
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on October 28, 2011, 02:03:57 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on October 27, 2011, 05:00:23 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on October 27, 2011, 04:32:03 PM
A Calvin roster was provided at the Winter Sports Lunch today:

http://tomaroonandgold.blogspot.com/2011/10/look-at-2011-12-womens-hoops-roster.html

Thanks for putting that up, KS.

It looks as though there are 9 returnees from last year, making up 9 of the 10-person rotation. Heather DeKleine, the 10th, is injured (ACL).

It looks as though none of the remaining 5 returned -- two due to graduation. None of last year's JV made varsity. That makes space for the five new players, four frosh and a sophomore transfer from Aquinas.

In the preseason audio interview, Ross named the newcomers:

Danielle Kapustka, transfer from Aquinas, was heavily recruited by Ross when she was in high school. Versatile point guard and shooter, plays with intensity.

Kayla Englehard -- 1st team all-state (class C) point guard.

Breanna Verkaik -- guard/post player, long, athletic. May be one of the surprises from this recruiting class.
Maria DeKuiper -- 2000 point scorer in high school. Some post moves, defends well.

Jessica Lang -- was a point guard, will convert to a post player.
Can CV's sister be a "surprise"?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on October 28, 2011, 04:50:53 PM
Quote from: northb on October 28, 2011, 02:03:57 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on October 27, 2011, 05:00:23 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on October 27, 2011, 04:32:03 PM
A Calvin roster was provided at the Winter Sports Lunch today:

http://tomaroonandgold.blogspot.com/2011/10/look-at-2011-12-womens-hoops-roster.html

Thanks for putting that up, KS.

It looks as though there are 9 returnees from last year, making up 9 of the 10-person rotation. Heather DeKleine, the 10th, is injured (ACL).

It looks as though none of the remaining 5 returned -- two due to graduation. None of last year's JV made varsity. That makes space for the five new players, four frosh and a sophomore transfer from Aquinas.

In the preseason audio interview, Ross named the newcomers:

Danielle Kapustka, transfer from Aquinas, was heavily recruited by Ross when she was in high school. Versatile point guard and shooter, plays with intensity.

Kayla Englehard -- 1st team all-state (class C) point guard.

Breanna Verkaik -- guard/post player, long, athletic. May be one of the surprises from this recruiting class.
Maria DeKuiper -- 2000 point scorer in high school. Some post moves, defends well.

Jessica Lang -- was a point guard, will convert to a post player.
Can CV's sister be a "surprise"?

That's one of those questions that can be answered "yes" or "no" depending on the context. I saw Breanna play about 5 high school games. If an observer evaluates her by way of comparison to her older sister, then a fair evaluator would have to say she did not have the impact on the game Carissa did in high school. CV is a good low post player who has extended her game at Calvin by playing effectively in the high post as well, both by hitting the outside shot and taking the ball to the basket.

Breanna played in high school as a wing player, not in the low post. She is 3 inches shorter than her sister, and is not the rebounder or shot blocker that CV is. Reading between the lines of Coach Ross's comments yesterday I took it that his surprise is partly because he believes Breanna appears able to help the team out in the post (John mentioned his team was thin on post players), and partly because she appears to be a more college ready player than he anticipated.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sflzman on October 29, 2011, 05:41:20 PM
Alma scrimmaged Marygrove last night and won by 20+

The Scots scored 86, I believe....
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on October 30, 2011, 06:25:49 PM
women's top 25 is out

http://d3hoops.com/top25/women/2011-12/index
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on October 30, 2011, 09:46:21 PM
Quote from: sac on October 30, 2011, 06:25:49 PM
women's top 25 is out

http://d3hoops.com/top25/women/2011-12/index

I think #6 is about right for Calvin. I wouldn't be surprised if Hope ends up higher than #19.

BTW, do the knights have an exhibition game or open scrimmage scheduled?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on October 31, 2011, 06:26:51 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on October 30, 2011, 09:46:21 PM
Quote from: sac on October 30, 2011, 06:25:49 PM
women's top 25 is out

http://d3hoops.com/top25/women/2011-12/index

I think #6 is about right for Calvin. I wouldn't be surprised if Hope ends up higher than #19.

BTW, do the knights have an exhibition game or open scrimmage scheduled?

I agree with the #6 ranking for Calvin and also agree that Hope will most likely move up as the season progresses.  Calvin deserves to be ranked here as they return all of their significant pieces from a very successful season last year.  I think there is still a lot of unknown with Hope this year as they lost some important players.

The Knights scrimmaged last Tuesday against Bethel at the Van Noord.  They have an exhibition scheduled at Ferris next Tuesday, November 8th at 7pm.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on November 03, 2011, 01:03:59 PM
From the MIAA:  "Women's Poll Results (First-place votes in parenthesis): 1. Calvin (8) 8 pts. 2. Hope (1) 16. 3. Saint Mary's 21. 4. Albion 36. 5. Olivet 38. 6. Adrian 41. 7. Trine 50. 8. Alma 51. 9. Kalamazoo 63."

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 03, 2011, 01:15:55 PM
Quote from: realist on November 03, 2011, 01:03:59 PM
From the MIAA:  "Women's Poll Results (First-place votes in parenthesis): 1. Calvin (8) 8 pts. 2. Hope (1) 16. 3. Saint Mary's 21. 4. Albion 36. 5. Olivet 38. 6. Adrian 41. 7. Trine 50. 8. Alma 51. 9. Kalamazoo 63."

If my math is right, that means one coach picked Hope 3rd - interesting
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ziggy on November 03, 2011, 01:56:28 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on November 03, 2011, 01:15:55 PM
Quote from: realist on November 03, 2011, 01:03:59 PM
From the MIAA:  "Women's Poll Results (First-place votes in parenthesis): 1. Calvin (8) 8 pts. 2. Hope (1) 16. 3. Saint Mary's 21. 4. Albion 36. 5. Olivet 38. 6. Adrian 41. 7. Trine 50. 8. Alma 51. 9. Kalamazoo 63."

If my math is right, that means one coach picked Hope 3rd - interesting

Your math is right. Based on the voting we know that the third place vote didn't come from Calvin or St. Mary's.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on November 08, 2011, 05:04:58 PM
The Knights have an exhibition game against Ferris St this evening. If it were a real game, it'd be a big one -- possibly their toughest game all season not including the NCAA tournament.

The Knights really only have four games scheduled against teams that are competitive with them in terms of Massey power--Iowa Wesleyan (NAIA II #8, according to Massey), WI-LaCrosse (NCAA III #13, according to Massey), and two games with Hope. Iowa Wesleyan got only one vote in the NAIA II poll, so they may be down a little from last year. Likewise, WI LaCrosse got no votes in the d3hoops.com poll.

Massey has Ferris State as a 6-point favorite, including home court advantage, but Massey doesn't know about the fact that Ferris State lost two starters and Calvin didn't lose any.

If Calvin wins, it might be an indicator that Calvin should be a favorite in all their games this year, if both teams are playing it like a real game. More likely, they'll experiment with various groups of players in the second half, and we won't learn much.

I will be curious whether any of Calvin's newcomers get playing time in the main rotation...

Edit: it's an exhibition game, not a scrimmage, as pointed out below
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 08, 2011, 05:25:02 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on November 08, 2011, 05:04:58 PM
The Knights have a scrimmage against Ferris St this evening. If it were a real game, it'd be a big one -- possibly their toughest game all season not including the NCAA tournament.

The Knights really only have four games scheduled against teams that are competitive with them in terms of Massey power--Iowa Wesleyan (NAIA II #8, according to Massey), WI-LaCrosse (NCAA III #13, according to Massey), and two games with Hope. Iowa Wesleyan got only one vote in the NAIA II poll, so they may be down a little from last year. Likewise, WI LaCrosse got no votes in the d3hoops.com poll.

Massey has Ferris State as a 6-point favorite, including home court advantage, but Massey doesn't know about the fact that Ferris State lost two starters and Calvin didn't lose any.

If Calvin wins, it might be an indicator that Calvin should be a favorite in all their games this year, if both teams are playing it like a real game. More likely, they'll experiment with various groups of players in the second half, and we won't learn much.

I will be curious whether any of Calvin's newcomers get playing time in the main rotation...

I understand Hope scrimmaged Ferris State last weekend.  Wasn't there but I think it was supposedly a scrimmage rather than an exhibition game.  In any case, Hope was reportedly outscored by FS though not by a huge margin.  Not sure if any conclusions can be drawn other than a win by Calvin tonight would probably further indicate the Knights position as league favorite.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on November 08, 2011, 10:39:43 PM
Ferris State nipped Calvin by 2 in overtime, 75-73, after Calvin led by 12 with 6 minutes remaining in regulation (recap (http://ferrisstatebulldogs.com/sports/wbkb/2011-12/releases/20111108dtux7r)).

Calvin played 13 players, with Verkaik, Wolffis, Thomas, Kurncz, and freshman Englehard starting. Hillbrands is still in volleyball mode so I think everyone available played. The knights hit 10 of 28 3-point attempts, or 36%, which wasn't bad considering 3-point shooting has been a weakness. The most prominent stat in Ferris State's favor was rebounds, 46-36. I'm guessing D-II Ferris State has a tall, athletic team.

Verkaik had 24 points, 11 rebounds, 3 assists, and 3 blocks.

Disappointing ending but I'd say that's really a pretty good result under the circumstances.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on November 10, 2011, 03:14:32 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on November 08, 2011, 10:39:43 PM
Ferris State nipped Calvin by 2 in overtime, 75-73, after Calvin led by 12 with 6 minutes remaining in regulation (recap (http://ferrisstatebulldogs.com/sports/wbkb/2011-12/releases/20111108dtux7r)).

Calvin played 13 players, with Verkaik, Wolffis, Thomas, Kurncz, and freshman Englehard starting. Hillbrands is still in volleyball mode so I think everyone available played. The knights hit 10 of 28 3-point attempts, or 36%, which wasn't bad considering 3-point shooting has been a weakness. The most prominent stat in Ferris State's favor was rebounds, 46-36. I'm guessing D-II Ferris State has a tall, athletic team.

Verkaik had 24 points, 11 rebounds, 3 assists, and 3 blocks.

Disappointing ending but I'd say that's really a pretty good result under the circumstances.

I was at the game at Ferris on Tuesday.  I came away impressed with the Knights and they looked very good against a much bigger and athletic Ferris State team.  Calvin controlled the game most of the way and had the lead from the middle of the first half until the final few seconds in regulation.  They struggled a bit down the stretch but being only an exhibition game this early I don't think it's anything to worry about.  Also, they did not have a normal rotation in during the end of the game as they looked to be trying different things.

Hillbrands was definitely missed and it will be important to get her back after volleyball is finished.  Her height and physical play would have matched up well against Ferris.  Looks like the way the volleyball team is playing though, that may not be until after the first 3 games of the season.

I think the Knights come away from this overtime loss with a lot of positives and things to look forward to this year.  This was a good experience for the freshman as there was good attendance from Ferris and it felt like a real game with a pretty rowdy crowd. 

Calvin clearly outplayed Ferris for most of the game and you could tell Ferris's coach was not pleased at all as she received a technical in the second half.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on November 10, 2011, 05:31:37 PM
Thanks for the post bb13.  Always good to hear from someone at the game.  From what I read it sure sounded like Calvin handled themselves well, and they did miss
Hillbrands.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on November 10, 2011, 06:19:16 PM
Actually Calvin probably has the best three point shooting team in the league with Thomas and Irwin.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 10, 2011, 07:50:00 PM
last year

3-POINT FIELD GOAL PERCENTAGES
# Team                  G     FG   FGA   Pct
--------------------------------------------
1.Hope College........ 30    198   548  .361
2.Calvin College...... 30    174   547  .318
3.Albion College...... 27    117   376  .311
4.Kalamazoo College... 25    139   494  .281
5.Trine University.... 26     86   312  .276
6.Alma College........ 25     87   333  .261
7.Adrian College...... 25     91   349  .261
8.Saint Mary's College 26     47   195  .241
9.Olivet College...... 25     86   389  .221


Hope graduated 90-246 3point shooting, they return 108-302 or .358

Don't know how this year will go, but it will be a stat to watch.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on November 11, 2011, 10:56:59 AM
Nice article on CV, and her family.

http://www.mlive.com/smallcolleges/grandrapids/index.ssf/2011/11/calvin_star_carissa_verkaik_dr.html

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on November 12, 2011, 09:58:44 AM
Calvin plays at Manchester (IN) on Tuesday. Manchester went 14-13 last year. They lost two starters and have 9 freshmen (out of 19) on the team.

Based on last year's games, Massey says Calvin 66 Manchester 51.


Update -- Massey predicts a 24-point win for Hope against Rochester College.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on November 15, 2011, 07:49:38 PM
Calvin wins a close one tonight against Manchester, 48-43.  Down 9 at half they were able to pull it together and get the win.  Verkaik had a big game with 20 points, 14 rebounds, and 7 blocks.  Hopefully the slow start was due to first game butterflies.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 15, 2011, 08:17:13 PM
Hope over Rochester 84-36.  Everyone played by the end of 1st half, everyone scored, 4 starters in double figures.  Tough to tell too much from this game except that the defense created a lot of turnovers.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on November 15, 2011, 08:27:06 PM
Hitting only 2 of 16 3 attempts makes for a rough game.   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 18, 2011, 10:22:37 PM
Capital 62 Hope 53

This is something like Hope's 5th or 6th non-conference loss in the regular season since 2001......or something ridiculous like that.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on November 19, 2011, 06:56:01 AM
Not much you can tell from a blowout win against a weak team, but I thought it was interesting that less than half of Calvin's points were scored in the paint. Irwin had a great 4-5 performance from behind the arc.

It was unfortunate from one perspective but nice from another to see Hilbrands back in the lineup with 6 rebounds a 7 points in 13 minutes.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on November 25, 2011, 08:57:31 PM
Calvin 77 Iowa Wesleyan 65.  CV 16 points, and 10 blocks.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on November 26, 2011, 05:13:31 PM
A spectacular day for Verkaik.  35 points, 14-17 fg, 1-1 3 pt, 6-8 ft, 12 reb.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on November 26, 2011, 05:27:35 PM
Quote from: wiz on November 26, 2011, 05:13:31 PM
A spectacular day for Verkaik.  35 points, 14-17 fg, 1-1 3 pt, 6-8 ft, 12 reb.

And she didn't play much in the second half.

Siena Heights was previously undefeated, averaging 72 points a game. Calvin held them to 22 in the first half. Apparently the knights' defense is starting to turn it on again this year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on November 26, 2011, 09:24:55 PM
With the inside play of CV and company and the hustle of the frosh on defense, Calvin looks very tough.  They could use some balanced scoring in the event CV has a tough matchup.  Not sure who steps up in that case.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on November 27, 2011, 01:24:22 PM
I noticed Hope had tough game....was it matchup problems?  Seems like Hope is playing small ball.....shooting more threes than usual.  Anyone at the game?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 27, 2011, 01:49:20 PM
Quote from: Calvinhoops on November 27, 2011, 01:24:22 PM
I noticed Hope had tough game....was it matchup problems?  Seems like Hope is playing small ball.....shooting more threes than usual.  Anyone at the game?


Wasn't at the game but listened to it on radio.  I think it's a combination of things.  Hope has two very good guards that can shoot the three and that has lead to a few more attempts behind the arc.  In the game yesterday, they turned it over more than usual and that kept it close.  They have a lot of height, but most of it is young and still developing.  Their inside game will be tough in a year or two, but right now their strength is not creating shots in the lane or low post.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on November 28, 2011, 11:47:02 AM
Quote from: Calvinhoops on November 26, 2011, 09:24:55 PM
With the inside play of CV and company and the hustle of the frosh on defense, Calvin looks very tough.  They could use some balanced scoring in the event CV has a tough matchup.  Not sure who steps up in that case.

I don't think there are any tough matchups for Carissa in Division III. In four games against the third and fourth team All-American centers last year (Taylor Simpson, Chicago and Carrie Snikkers, Hope), she averaged 20 points and 11 rebounds.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on November 28, 2011, 03:49:11 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on November 28, 2011, 11:47:02 AM
Quote from: Calvinhoops on November 26, 2011, 09:24:55 PM
With the inside play of CV and company and the hustle of the frosh on defense, Calvin looks very tough.  They could use some balanced scoring in the event CV has a tough matchup.  Not sure who steps up in that case.

I don't think there are any tough matchups for Carissa in Division III. In four games against the third and fourth team All-American centers last year (Taylor Simpson, Chicago and Carrie Snikkers, Hope), she averaged 20 points and 11 rebounds.

FWIW, Verkaik averaged 20.2 points and 12.2 rebounds in the Knights' five losses last year -- better numbers than the season averages. When they lost, it wasn't because Verkaik had a tough matchup.

Looking at those five losses, in four of them Calvin was out-rebounded despite CV's pulling down 12.2 boards. In most of the losses the other team also had a higher shooting percentage than Calvin (except for Verkaik). Calvin lost to Hope because Hope stole the ball 23 times contributing to 35 turnovers.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on November 28, 2011, 04:57:36 PM
I agree...someone else needs to be able to help her in scoring....the other players can't shoot poorly or disappear on the boards either.  Hopefully the supporting cast shows up.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 28, 2011, 05:08:46 PM
Quote from: Calvinhoops on November 27, 2011, 01:24:22 PM
I noticed Hope had tough game....was it matchup problems?  Seems like Hope is playing small ball.....shooting more threes than usual.  Anyone at the game?

Hope avg'd 18.2 3 point attempts last year.

This year, so far its 21.2, and that's probably skewed a little because they took 28 vs Capital when they were trailing for the entire game.  Prior to that the high was 22 and a low of 16.

It will be interesting to watch as the year goes, Hope's recent teams have all been averaging between 18 and 19 attempts per game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on November 28, 2011, 06:16:18 PM
That made me lookup Calvin's stats and they are eerily the same except Hope shoots a better percentage.   They also average 21 per game this year and 18 last year.  Oddly, with the 3 point line being moved back, you would think less three attempts.  Can Hopes better shooting percentage overcome Calvin's better post play?  Only time will tell!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on November 29, 2011, 04:24:42 PM
The MIAA season starts tomorrow! Here are Massey's predictions:

Saint Mary's at Trine -- 61-62
Calvin at Albion -- 68-54
Kzoo at Hope -- 50-78
Adrian at Alma -- 47-54

The Saint Mary's at Trine game may be the most interesting one, as those teams currently look as though they will be battling for third place in the league (according to Massey). Trine is currently 4-0 and Saint Mary's is 2-4, but the Belles have played a much, much tougher schedule.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on December 01, 2011, 09:42:43 AM
Calvin defeated Albion 69-60.

Calvin allowed Albion a few more points than Massey predicted, and according to Massey Calvin's defense is three points weaker this year than last.

I saw part of the game on the video feed, and it looked as though Calvin's defense played very well at times but at other times wasn't quite there.

Hopefully the defense will get back to last year's level of intensity and consistency by the end of the month, in time for the trip to  LaCrosse.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on December 03, 2011, 06:48:43 PM
Calvin beat Adrian this afternoon 64-46.

Adrian came out energized and played Calvin close in the first half with Calvin leading by 7 at the break, 31-24.  The Knights offense had a little trouble getting started but the D was playing decent.  After half Calvin started on a 15-2 run and never looked back.  The Knights defense played great and the offense moved the ball around much better in the second half.

Next up is at a surprisingly undefeated Trine squad on Wednesday night.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on December 04, 2011, 07:26:00 AM
Hope handled Albion 78-53 though the game was a bit closer than the score would indicate.  Albion led for a significant part of the first half, Hope was shooting poorly but started heating up and led by six at the half.  Hope caught fire in the second half, hitting 10-18 threes for the game with seven different players hitting at least one three.  Morehouse was platooning ten players even in the first half when the game was tight.  Maybe the biggest difference was that Hope center Kussmaul had a huge game, scoring 24 while a very good Albion center Rewa was held to 7 and was in foul trouble most of the game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on December 06, 2011, 03:48:07 PM
Interesting matchup with Calvin playing at Trine tomorrow night. Massey says this will be Calvin's toughest MIAA game apart from the two games with Hope.

Last week Trine defeated last year's #3 team in the MIAA, St Mary's, by 12 points. Trine also blew out Anderson, IN by 37 points -- a team that Calvin beat by 15.



Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on December 06, 2011, 11:28:56 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on December 06, 2011, 03:48:07 PM
Interesting matchup with Calvin playing at Trine tomorrow night. Massey says this will be Calvin's toughest MIAA game apart from the two games with Hope.

Last week Trine defeated last year's #3 team in the MIAA, St Mary's, by 12 points. Trine also blew out Anderson, IN by 37 points -- a team that Calvin beat by 15.

...and the same Trine team that just defeated Olivet by 2.  Interesting.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on December 07, 2011, 09:19:40 AM
Quote from: wiz on December 06, 2011, 11:28:56 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on December 06, 2011, 03:48:07 PM
Interesting matchup with Calvin playing at Trine tomorrow night. Massey says this will be Calvin's toughest MIAA game apart from the two games with Hope.

Last week Trine defeated last year's #3 team in the MIAA, St Mary's, by 12 points. Trine also blew out Anderson, IN by 37 points -- a team that Calvin beat by 15.

...and the same Trine team that just defeated Olivet by 2.  Interesting.

I agree, this should be an interesting game to watch tonight.  The Anderson game is really the only way to compare the two teams right now.  Calvin's 15 point win was actually much larger than that as they were up by 25 for most of the 2nd half, but Trine's 37 point win was impressive.  This will be Trine's first major test of the season and it's at home for them.  I think it we will get a good feel for just how good Trine will be this year.

As for the Olivet game it makes you scratch your head a bit....I guess we will know more tonight.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on December 07, 2011, 08:34:07 PM
Listening to the Calvin/Trine game and am reminded of something that I observed last year, but it is worth mentioning again.  Trine has the best radio announcers in the MIAA.  They do their homework on opposing teams and players, are fun to listen to, keep the pace moving, and understand basketball.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on December 07, 2011, 09:05:37 PM
Quote from: wiz on December 07, 2011, 08:34:07 PM
Listening to the Calvin/Trine game and am reminded of something that I observed last year, but it is worth mentioning again.  Trine has the best radio announcers in the MIAA.  They do their homework on opposing teams and players, are fun to listen to, keep the pace moving, and understand basketball.

I couldn't agree more.  I was extremely impressed with Trine's announcers.  This was the first time I listened to them and thoroughly enjoyed it.  Well done.

As for the game it was a defensive struggle in the first half with Calvin on top 19-17.  Not too much of a surprise as Trine and Calvin are 1 and 2 in the conference in scoring defense.  Calvin came out in the 2nd half and opened the game up and never looked back.  I believe during a 12 minute stretch during the end of the 1st half and beginning of the 2nd that Trine only had 1 field goal during a 12 minute span.  That pretty much ended it for them.  Good win for the Knights against a previously undefeated Trine down in Angola.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 10, 2011, 11:08:05 PM
Barely 2 weeks in and its Hope/Calvin and then everybody else with 2 losses.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 17, 2011, 07:45:40 PM
Hope 61 Ithaca 50

Hope won a rare game vs an East region team against Ithaca.  Prior to today, Ithaca's only other loss had come to #5 Rochester.

http://www.miaa.org/wbb/stats/1112/1217itha.htm
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on December 17, 2011, 08:11:04 PM
I guess Calvin's defense is on track, holding Olivet to single digits in the first half.  In fact, Olivet had only 4 points in the first 18 minutes or so.

Some of those freshmen who aren't in the main rotation look pretty promising.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sflzman on December 17, 2011, 08:54:03 PM
Inside 9 to go today in the Alma/Elmhurst game, the Scots trailed 15-0
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on December 17, 2011, 09:32:21 PM
Freshman Rebekah Llorens was the leading scorer for the Dutch for the third game in a row.   :) :)  16 today after 19 and 22 in the two previous games.  In all games she came of the bench in the first line-change.  Meredith Kussmaul left the game with a knee injury after a tangle under the basket.   She was able to walk gingerly with assistance, but did not return.  :( :(   Needless to say, this is not rosey news.  Thankfully, there is a layoff until the Florida tournament Dec 28-29.  Let's keep our fingers crossed.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on December 17, 2011, 10:05:34 PM
The Hope women had their premier post player out of the game, grimacing over a (reinjured?) knee, after just 4 minutes, and Liz Ellis--using an exercycle during bench time to cope with her leg issue--shooting one out of ten.  The team as a whole shot just 31.6%, including 2 of 15 three's.  And yet, with all this adversity and cold shooting, they still managed to beat a 7-1 team by eleven points. 

Watching this game, it struck me that aggressive, high-energy defense can sometimes win games even when other things aren't going your way.  Good win for the Dutch . . . and a good time for some healing rest.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on December 18, 2011, 05:42:48 AM
Quote from: pointlem on December 17, 2011, 10:05:34 PM
The Hope women had their premier post player out of the game, grimacing over a (reinjured?) knee, after just 4 minutes, and Liz Ellis--using an exercycle during bench time to cope with her leg issue--shooting one out of ten.  The team as a whole shot just 31.6%, including 2 of 15 three's.  And yet, with all this adversity and cold shooting, they still managed to beat a 7-1 team by eleven points. 

Watching this game, it struck me that aggressive, high-energy defense can sometimes win games even when other things aren't going your way.  Good win for the Dutch . . . and a good time for some healing rest.

I agree.  Actually I thought both teams played ferocious defense and that lead to low shooting percentage by both teams.  Despite that, it was a very well played game and a great character builder game for this time of the season.  Ithaca is a very solid team and will do some damage going forward.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on December 30, 2011, 07:03:59 AM
Hope wins the RDV Classic in Orlando with solids wins over Concordia-Chicago then Baldwin-Wallace.  This team appears to be characterized by balance with typically a different leading scorer every game, 3-4 players in double figures, and 10 or more players making solid contributions even in tight games.  Overall record is now 12-1 and they should creep up a little in the rankings.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on December 30, 2011, 10:39:43 AM
Key game for the Knights today against Wisconsin LaCrosse. This is really the Knights' only game against a quality DIII opponent outside the MIAA season.

LaCrosse's leading scorer is their 6'1" center, Kassie Robinson, at 13.8 pts, 7.2 rebounds per game. If Verkaik can hold her in check that will take away a key dimension of their game. Calvin shoots .418 to .406 for LaX; three-point percentages are .309 to .252. LaX seems to win through more rebounds, steals, blocks, and fewer turnovers than their opponents. LaCrosse has played a tougher schedule than Calvin, with opponents almost five points stronger on average.

Massey has LaCrosse at #30 to Calvin's #13. The predicted outcome is a 61-59 victory. However, with the long layoff and the big drive around the lake, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Knights find this to be a very difficult game. I think they're going to have to work very hard on defense to come away with a W in a relatively low-scoring game. (Calvin's defense is rated #18, LaCrosse #19.)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on December 30, 2011, 05:42:34 PM
Calvin 60 UWL 40. 
CV 27 points, and 10 boards.
Calvin shot about 42%, and held UWL to 23%.  Calvin had a +2 margin in rebounds.
Robinson had 8 boards, and 17 points.  Hilbrand with 8 boards, and 10 points.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on December 30, 2011, 11:34:11 PM
Another outstanding game for Verkaik as she shoots at a 50% clip, scores 27, hauls down 10 rebounds and blocks 6 shots!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on December 31, 2011, 11:26:38 AM
From the La Crosse Tribune article:

Quote
Teams that come into Mitchell Hall to play the UW-La Crosse women's basketball team know they'll be met by a superb defense.

Calvin (Mich.) raised the stakes Friday. 

The Knights (10-0), ranked fourth by D3hoops.com, also know how to play great defense, and used that — plus a dominating performance by preseason All-America forward Carissa Verkaik — to defeat the Eagles 60-40.

The previous low points for La Crosse in a game was 47.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on December 31, 2011, 12:51:46 PM
I was at the game yesterday.  The Knights looked great after a long layoff. They came out playing great right from the start. Their defense really shut down a good, tough La Crosse team.

With the Knights up by 2 at the half they came out in the 2nd half and took the game away pretty quickly. They were able to force La Crosse to take a lot of forced shots near the end of the shot clock.

With the Knights defense playing the way it is they will be tough to beat this year. 

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on December 31, 2011, 03:27:34 PM
Calvin beats Luther 74- 38.  Lots of playing time for the bench.  Something like 12 or 13 people scored for Calvin.  Irwin hit 4 3's, and the commentator said she has yet to shoot a 2 point shot this season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on December 31, 2011, 03:33:13 PM
Quote from: realist on December 31, 2011, 03:27:34 PM
Calvin beats Luther 74- 38.  Lots of playing time for the bench.  Something like 12 or 13 people scored for Calvin.  Irwin hit 4 3's, and the commentator said she has yet to shoot a 2 point shot this season.

Luther's 38 points was their lowest score of the season--by 9 points. They scored 47 against WI La Crosse, and 53 against undefeated River Falls.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on December 31, 2011, 07:25:52 PM
Quote from: wiz on December 30, 2011, 11:34:11 PM
Another outstanding game for Verkaik as she shoots at a 50% clip, scores 27, hauls down 10 rebounds and blocks 6 shots!
And then the next day she follows up with 11 points, 6 blocked shots, and 8 boards in only 15 minutes of play.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 01, 2012, 01:51:05 PM
The Knights have really picked it up on defense in the last four games. You can rate the defense for a game by taking the opponent's Massey offensive rating (the points they would score against an average opponent) and subtract the points they actually scored.

For the first seven games, Calvin's defense played with a rating of about 6.0. For the last four games, their defensive rating averages an outstanding 22. For comparison, the highest-rated defense in DIII has a rating of 17.6--a figure probably inflated by a slow style of play.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 03, 2012, 12:38:06 PM
Quote from: realist on December 31, 2011, 03:27:34 PM
Calvin beats Luther 74- 38.  Lots of playing time for the bench.  Something like 12 or 13 people scored for Calvin.  Irwin hit 4 3's, and the commentator said she has yet to shoot a 2 point shot this season.

Looks like she has 3 attempts, but hasn't hit on a two point shot yet. She's a ridiculous 26-58 (.448) from beyond the arc.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 03, 2012, 03:45:07 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 03, 2012, 12:38:06 PM
Quote from: realist on December 31, 2011, 03:27:34 PM
Calvin beats Luther 74- 38.  Lots of playing time for the bench.  Something like 12 or 13 people scored for Calvin.  Irwin hit 4 3's, and the commentator said she has yet to shoot a 2 point shot this season.

Looks like she has 3 attempts, but hasn't hit on a two point shot yet. She's a ridiculous 26-58 (.448) from beyond the arc.

During the game the commentator made the comment about her not shooting 2's, and I checked the stats before I posted, but now I see the Luther stats show her 4-8 on fga, and 4-5 on 3's.  I don't remember hearing them say she missed a 2, but with the score so lopsided I went on to other things.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on January 04, 2012, 03:12:53 PM
Someone asked me the other day where I thought Calvin ranked in terms of teams in the state of Michigan across all levels.  This is an interesting question and there really is no way to tell unless the teams all played a schedule with each other but I thought I might take a look into it and give it a shot.  The best and easiest way I thought I could do this was to use Massey's rankings.

I believe I got every school in the state except the JC's.  Please let me know if I left someone out.  MIAA schools are bolded.  Here they are:

Rank       School                              Overall Massey Rating
1.           Michigan                                    21
2.           MSU                                          78
3.           Eastern                                      91
4.           Central                                      119
5.           Detroit Mercy                             167
6.           Oakland                                     252
7.           Davenport                                  325
8.           Michigan Tech                            331
9.           Calvin                                      332
10.          Ferris                                       404
11.         Western                                     516
12.         Hope                                        528
13.         Wayne St                                  529
14.         Concordia                                   539
15.         Northern Michigan                       549
16.         Hillsdale                                    593
17.         Grand Valley                               618
18.         Northwood                                 711
19.         Lake Superior State                     866
20.         Albion                                      888
21.         Saginaw Valley                            909
22.         Sienna Heights                            953
23.         Aquinas                                      970
24.         Cornerstone                               987
25.         Madonna                                    1071
26.         Spring Harbor                             1222
27.         Adrian                                      1231
28.         Alma                                        1237
29.         Rochester                                   1370
30.         Kalamazoo                                1486
31.         Olivet                                        1492
32.         Marygrove                                  1599
33.         MI Dearborn                                 1617
34.         Grace Bible                                 1876
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ziggy on January 05, 2012, 01:33:14 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on January 04, 2012, 03:12:53 PM
Someone asked me the other day where I thought Calvin ranked in terms of teams in the state of Michigan across all levels.  This is an interesting question and there really is no way to tell unless the teams all played a schedule with each other but I thought I might take a look into it and give it a shot.  The best and easiest way I thought I could do this was to use Massey's rankings.

I believe I got every school in the state except the JC's.  Please let me know if I left someone out.  MIAA schools are bolded.  Here they are:

Rank       School                              Overall Massey Rating
1.           Michigan                                    21
2.           MSU                                          78
3.           Eastern                                      91
4.           Central                                      119
5.           Detroit Mercy                             167
6.           Oakland                                     252
7.           Davenport                                  325
8.           Michigan Tech                            331
9.           Calvin                                      332
10.          Ferris                                       404
11.         Western                                     516
12.         Hope                                        528
13.         Wayne St                                  529
14.         Concordia                                   539
15.         Northern Michigan                       549
16.         Hillsdale                                    593
17.         Grand Valley                               618
18.         Northwood                                 711
19.         Lake Superior State                     866
20.         Albion                                      888
21.         Saginaw Valley                            909
22.         Sienna Heights                            953
23.         Aquinas                                      970
24.         Cornerstone                               987
25.         Madonna                                    1071
26.         Spring Harbor                             1222
27.         Adrian                                      1231
28.         Alma                                        1237
29.         Rochester                                   1370
30.         Kalamazoo                                1486
31.         Olivet                                        1492
32.         Marygrove                                  1599
33.         MI Dearborn                                 1617
34.         Grace Bible                                 1876

Finlandia would be 34th at 1733. Drops Grace to 35th.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on January 05, 2012, 09:04:47 PM
Because I have observed over the years that posters comment from time-to-time on the relative merits of broadcasters, I have decided to comment on the mystifying reporting of the Holland Senile sports reporting staff as observed this morning.   

According to the official box-score from last evenings game against Alma the starters were listed as below with the total points scored by each:

24 Nate Snuggerud...... f  21 
35 Nate VanArendonk.... f   9 
11 David Krombeen...... g  15 
32 Billy Seiler........ g  10 
44 Peter Bunn.......... g  13 

In the body of the reporting, you read "Hope's starters combined for 29 points, with Krombeen leading the way with eight."  According to the above, the starters scored 68 points, Krombeen scored 15, and Snuggerud "lead the way" with 21.

On the women's side, the print headline for the game report reads, "Hope women's basketball scorches Olivet, sets up showdown with Calvin."  Hope won 66-52, hardly a "scorching."  At least the online version now reads "tops" vice "scorches."  The "Krombeen leading the way with eight" remains online.

To the infrequent reader of the Senile, such reporting may appear to be a one-time aberration, However, as a daily reader, puzzlers such as these keep me scratching my head in wonderment and awe.  Obviously, the Peter Principle still prevails!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 05, 2012, 09:34:03 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on January 04, 2012, 03:12:53 PM
Someone asked me the other day where I thought Calvin ranked in terms of teams in the state of Michigan across all levels.  This is an interesting question and there really is no way to tell unless the teams all played a schedule with each other but I thought I might take a look into it and give it a shot.  The best and easiest way I thought I could do this was to use Massey's rankings.

I believe I got every school in the state except the JC's.  Please let me know if I left someone out.  MIAA schools are bolded.  Here they are:

Rank       School                              Overall Massey Rating
1.           Michigan                                    21
2.           MSU                                          78
3.           Eastern                                      91
4.           Central                                      119
5.           Detroit Mercy                             167
6.           Oakland                                     252
7.           Davenport                                  325
8.           Michigan Tech                            331
9.           Calvin                                      332
10.          Ferris                                       404
11.         Western                                     516
12.         Hope                                        528
13.         Wayne St                                  529
14.         Concordia                                   539
15.         Northern Michigan                       549
16.         Hillsdale                                    593
17.         Grand Valley                               618
18.         Northwood                                 711
19.         Lake Superior State                     866
20.         Albion                                      888
21.         Saginaw Valley                            909
22.         Sienna Heights                            953
23.         Aquinas                                      970
24.         Cornerstone                               987
25.         Madonna                                    1071
26.         Spring Harbor                             1222
27.         Adrian                                      1231
28.         Alma                                        1237
29.         Rochester                                   1370
30.         Kalamazoo                                1486
31.         Olivet                                        1492
32.         Marygrove                                  1599
33.         MI Dearborn                                 1617
34.         Grace Bible                                 1876

How about Kuyper College? Not a very strong program yet--they lost to Grace Bible by 12--but they did beat Northland Int'l University 44-12.

http://www.kuyper.edu/Womens_Basketball/

(That would appear to make Northland Int'l a 121-point underdog vs. Michigan...)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 05, 2012, 10:47:24 PM
Latest Massey ratings for the MIAA:

Calvin #7
Hope #20
Albion #77
St Mary's #106
Adrian #179
Alma #182
Kalamazoo #271
Olivet #273

Calvin climbed 6 spots to #7 after the strong trip out west. Calvin's power climbed by 4.7 points--3.5 of that in defensive improvement. That's a dramatic change for adding just two game results.

Massey now thinks Calvin will beat Hope by 10 on Saturday.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 06, 2012, 06:33:40 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on January 05, 2012, 10:47:24 PM
Latest Massey ratings for the MIAA:

Calvin #7
Hope #20
Albion #77
St Mary's #106
Adrian #179
Alma #182
Kalamazoo #271
Olivet #273

Calvin climbed 6 spots to #7 after the strong trip out west. Calvin's power climbed by 4.7 points--3.5 of that in defensive improvement. That's a dramatic change for adding just two game results.

Massey now thinks Calvin will beat Hope by 10 on Saturday.


Hard to argue with Massey on this one.  Hope has been winning but has not been as dominant as Calvin.  Hope's starting center and co-captain, who started out very strong this year, is out.  Calvin is at home.  While either team is capable of winning, this one figures to be a double digit win for Calvin.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on January 06, 2012, 08:29:33 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 06, 2012, 06:33:40 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on January 05, 2012, 10:47:24 PM
Latest Massey ratings for the MIAA:

Calvin #7
Hope #20
Albion #77
St Mary's #106
Adrian #179
Alma #182
Kalamazoo #271
Olivet #273

Calvin climbed 6 spots to #7 after the strong trip out west. Calvin's power climbed by 4.7 points--3.5 of that in defensive improvement. That's a dramatic change for adding just two game results.

Massey now thinks Calvin will beat Hope by 10 on Saturday.


Hard to argue with Massey on this one.  Hope has been winning but has not been as dominant as Calvin.  Hope's starting center and co-captain, who started out very strong this year, is out.  Calvin is at home.  While either team is capable of winning, this one figures to be a double digit win for Calvin.

Yes, I agree on paper it looks like a double digit win for Calvin.  But you never know with Calvin vs. Hope.....  Should be a good one!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on January 06, 2012, 12:56:14 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on January 06, 2012, 08:29:33 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 06, 2012, 06:33:40 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on January 05, 2012, 10:47:24 PM
Latest Massey ratings for the MIAA:

Calvin #7
Hope #20
Albion #77
St Mary's #106
Adrian #179
Alma #182
Kalamazoo #271
Olivet #273

Calvin climbed 6 spots to #7 after the strong trip out west. Calvin's power climbed by 4.7 points--3.5 of that in defensive improvement. That's a dramatic change for adding just two game results.

Massey now thinks Calvin will beat Hope by 10 on Saturday.


Hard to argue with Massey on this one.  Hope has been winning but has not been as dominant as Calvin.  Hope's starting center and co-captain, who started out very strong this year, is out.  Calvin is at home.  While either team is capable of winning, this one figures to be a double digit win for Calvin.

Yes, I agree on paper it looks like a double digit win for Calvin.  But you never know with Calvin vs. Hope.....  Should be a good one!

If you have a weak stomach, my advice is this: Never bet money on a Calvin/Hope game in any sport, any time.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on January 06, 2012, 03:17:44 PM
If I had a billion dollars, I'd fly to Grand Rapids to watch this one in person. Instead I'll watch it online from my dining room in Philadelphia. :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on January 06, 2012, 08:33:14 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on January 06, 2012, 08:29:33 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 06, 2012, 06:33:40 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on January 05, 2012, 10:47:24 PM
Latest Massey ratings for the MIAA:

Calvin #7
Hope #20
Albion #77
St Mary's #106
Adrian #179
Alma #182
Kalamazoo #271
Olivet #273

Calvin climbed 6 spots to #7 after the strong trip out west. Calvin's power climbed by 4.7 points--3.5 of that in defensive improvement. That's a dramatic change for adding just two game results.

Massey now thinks Calvin will beat Hope by 10 on Saturday.


Hard to argue with Massey on this one.  Hope has been winning but has not been as dominant as Calvin.  Hope's starting center and co-captain, who started out very strong this year, is out.  Calvin is at home.  While either team is capable of winning, this one figures to be a double digit win for Calvin.

Yes, I agree on paper it looks like a double digit win for Calvin.  But you never know with Calvin vs. Hope.....  Should be a good one!
Massey hasn't adjusted for Hope's loss of its top post player to a season-ending ACL.  Calvin, based on its crushing margins of victory to date, should be a heavy favorite in all its Hope matchups this year. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 07, 2012, 06:25:41 AM


Nice story in the Grand Rapids Press (http://www.mlive.com/smallcolleges/grandrapids/index.ssf/2012/01/game_to_watch_this_weekend_hop.html)
about the Calvin-Hope rivalry,
women's edition.

Don't miss the slide show.
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.mlive.com%2Fgrandrapidspress%2Fphoto%2F9330284-standard.jpg&hash=941eba0e87d52a8547129668b30c318013560c25)



Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on January 07, 2012, 10:06:35 AM
Quote from: wiz on January 06, 2012, 12:56:14 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on January 06, 2012, 08:29:33 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 06, 2012, 06:33:40 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on January 05, 2012, 10:47:24 PM
Latest Massey ratings for the MIAA:

Calvin #7
Hope #20
Albion #77
St Mary's #106
Adrian #179
Alma #182
Kalamazoo #271
Olivet #273

Calvin climbed 6 spots to #7 after the strong trip out west. Calvin's power climbed by 4.7 points--3.5 of that in defensive improvement. That's a dramatic change for adding just two game results.

Massey now thinks Calvin will beat Hope by 10 on Saturday.


Hard to argue with Massey on this one.  Hope has been winning but has not been as dominant as Calvin.  Hope's starting center and co-captain, who started out very strong this year, is out.  Calvin is at home.  While either team is capable of winning, this one figures to be a double digit win for Calvin.

Yes, I agree on paper it looks like a double digit win for Calvin.  But you never know with Calvin vs. Hope.....  Should be a good one!

If you have a weak stomach, my advice is this: Never bet money on a Calvin/Hope game in any sport, any time.

Possibly the best piece of unsolicited advice ever given on this board--or even off it.

Having said that, I believe Calvin is the clear favorite this year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on January 07, 2012, 11:25:52 AM
Quote from: oldknight on January 07, 2012, 10:06:35 AM
Quote from: wiz on January 06, 2012, 12:56:14 PM
If you have a weak stomach, my advice is this: Never bet money on a Calvin/Hope game in any sport, any time.

Possibly the best piece of unsolicited advice ever given on this board--or even off it.

Having said that, I believe Calvin is the clear favorite this year.

I'll bet you're right.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 07, 2012, 02:44:25 PM
Calvin 72  Hope 59.  Calvin great defense in 1st half, and Hope just couldn't get back once it got down.  Calvin did the job with rebounds, and making ft's down the stretch.  Hope did a nice job on CV, and she really had to work to get a double double.  Fortunately others picked up the offense and made the most of their opportunities.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: knights2000 on January 07, 2012, 05:18:22 PM
The story of this game was, in my opinion, freshman Kayla Engelhard. If you'll recall last years game at Hope, the guards for the Dutch defensively pushed Calvin's guards 40 feet from the basket, forcing what seemed like 40 turnovers. (In reality, it was only 34.) Engelhard was able to control the ball with Liz Ellis playing tough D, and even made Hope drop back into a zone for a period of time. Clutch free throw shooting down the stretch sealed it, and the hard nosed basketball (diving for multiple loose balls) was impressive. Welcome to The Rivalry, freshman.

A 46-30 rebounding advantage for the Knights was huge, with three Knights (Verkaik 12, Kurncz 10, and Hilbrands 8) notching or nearly notching double-doubles.

Things to work on: 2-20 on three-point attempts is not what you look for. If you had told me Calvin would shoot 10% from outside and Verkaik would have finished with 13 points, I would have told you the Knights wouldn't stand a chance.

I was very impressed by Maddie Burnett. She made some very big shots down the stretch, but the Dutch could never seem to get over the 8-9 point hump. They'd make a run, and Calvin would answer with a few buckets of their own.

Can't wait for rematch in Holland.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on January 07, 2012, 09:04:21 PM
Great game for the Knights today. Their defense really shut down Hope right from the beginning which set the tone for the game. I was impressed in the first half when Hope was down 22-9 and made a run to pull within 5 at 22-17. Calvin responded with their own run to go back up by 11 and go into half with a 13 point lead.  This gave the Knights confidence going into the half and never looked back.

It was nice to see a balanced scoring attack today from the Knights. Kayla Engelhard was very impressive in her first game against Hope.

Well done Knights! Should be a great game at Hope in February. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on January 07, 2012, 11:21:05 PM
The balance of power on the women's side has changed in the MIAA with Calvin clearly the dominant team now and Hope gamely trying to keep pace. The graduation of Snikkers and the loss of Kussmaul to an ACL injury has left Hope with too little horsepower to compete on the inside with Calvin. Morehouse's ladies are still good at playing an aggresive style perimeter defense that trys to force an opponent to start their offense 40 feet from the basket but Verkaik's presence and repeated backdoor cuts made Hope's defense pay often enough for Calvin to build and then maintain a 8-14 point lead most of the game. By the final four minutes Hope's ladies looked exhausted from their effort. Absent some fine 3 point shooting by Burnett and Overway, this game would have been more of a rout than the comfortable win it wound up being. The comments about Kayla Engelhard by knights2000 are right on the mark. Kayla is a wonderful floor general, plays nothing like a freshmen, and is a real difference maker for John Ross. Brian Morehouse was very generous in his post game comments about the Lady Knights.

http://www.mlive.com/smallcolleges/grandrapids/index.ssf/2012/01/victor_enjoys_rare_double-digi.html
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 08, 2012, 10:11:19 AM
Calvin's defense resulted in Hope 2-18 shooting and a 20-7 Calvin lead after the first few minutes.  The rest of the game was basically even and the end result was about as expected.  Should be a great game at Hope, I expect a closer game but with both teams' current personnel, Hope only wins if they shoot the lights out.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 09, 2012, 11:41:25 PM
Respect for a program is probably defined by a team losing convincingly to its rival, yet not dropping in the polls.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 10, 2012, 06:19:43 AM
Quote from: sac on January 09, 2012, 11:41:25 PM
Respect for a program is probably defined by a team losing convincingly to its rival, yet not dropping in the polls.



I figure that it shows respect for both programs.  Losing to such a strong, higher ranked Calvin team shouldn't automatically cause a drop in the polls.  I'm sure Hope's solid performance so far this year and overall program strength also helps.  I guess it will be tough for Calvin to move up further unless one of the top three drop a game....

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 10, 2012, 10:55:46 AM
One has to wonder if the fact this game was streamed thereby giving voters a chance to see both teams had any impact?  Hope had a good sized crowd on hand as the attendance was 2518 for this game, and it dropped to 1937 for the men's game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 14, 2012, 12:21:41 PM
Massey predictions for today's games:

St Mary's over Kalamazoo by 8 (actual result 9)
Trine over Alma by 8 (actual result 6)
Albion over Olivet by 12 (actual result 3)
Hope over Adrian by 13 (actual result 3)
Calvin over Rochester by by 28 (actual result 34)

There's a very nice piece by Gordon Mann on the Calvin-Hope rivalry on the d3hoops.com site:

http://www.d3hoops.com/columns/around-the-nation/2011-12/on-the-seventh-day

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 16, 2012, 01:08:48 PM
Carissa Verkaik is now 91 pts away from 1,500, 1 rebound away from 700, and 18 blocks away from 300.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 16, 2012, 10:13:44 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 16, 2012, 01:08:48 PM
Carissa Verkaik is now 91 pts away from 1,500, 1 rebound away from 700, and 18 blocks away from 300.

...and 41 points away from making the MIAA most points scored (career) top ten list.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 17, 2012, 08:57:58 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on January 16, 2012, 10:13:44 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 16, 2012, 01:08:48 PM
Carissa Verkaik is now 91 pts away from 1,500, 1 rebound away from 700, and 18 blocks away from 300.

...and 41 points away from making the MIAA most points scored (career) top ten list.

I believe she's "on pace" to get all the way up to #3 (passing Marcia Harris and Lisa Winkle for Calvin's top spot) this season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on January 17, 2012, 09:50:08 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 17, 2012, 08:57:58 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on January 16, 2012, 10:13:44 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 16, 2012, 01:08:48 PM
Carissa Verkaik is now 91 pts away from 1,500, 1 rebound away from 700, and 18 blocks away from 300.

...and 41 points away from making the MIAA most points scored (career) top ten list.

I believe she's "on pace" to get all the way up to #3 (passing Marcia Harris and Lisa Winkle for Calvin's top spot) this season.

So, any bold predictions who will be MVP on the women's side?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 17, 2012, 10:24:32 PM
Quote from: wiz on January 17, 2012, 09:50:08 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 17, 2012, 08:57:58 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on January 16, 2012, 10:13:44 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 16, 2012, 01:08:48 PM
Carissa Verkaik is now 91 pts away from 1,500, 1 rebound away from 700, and 18 blocks away from 300.

...and 41 points away from making the MIAA most points scored (career) top ten list.

I believe she's "on pace" to get all the way up to #3 (passing Marcia Harris and Lisa Winkle for Calvin's top spot) this season.

So, any bold predictions who will be MVP on the women's side?

Maybe the player who's on pace to set a new MIAA record for highest field goal percentage for a season?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on January 18, 2012, 09:13:47 PM
Calvin beats St. Mary's tonight 80-54 down in South Bend.  The 1st and 2nd half were two different stories.  Up 29-17 at the half, Calvin's offense struggled a bit but played well defensively.  And then in the second half the Knights erupted for 51 points and let down a bit defensively allowing 37 points.  Overall a good win for the Knights on the road.

Kurncz had a great game with 22 points, 5 assists, 3 boards, and 4 steals.  Verkaik played well and came up just short of a triple double with 16 points, 11 boards, and 8 blocks.  Wolffis also played well with 14 points and 7 boards.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 21, 2012, 08:54:49 AM
Last year the knights set a new MIAA defensive record, allowing 46.5 points per game. The record held for seasons of more than 6 games -- Adrian set the 6-game-season record in 1978-79 at 43.3 points per game.

Calvin's on track to improve last year's record, as they allowed 45.2 points per game through the first half of the double round robin. In order to reach that 43.3 mark they'd have to limit opponents to 41.4 points per game for the remaining games.

That may be too difficult to achieve. However, Calvin did have a couple of below-average defensive games in the first half, and if they're going to go far in the tournament they'll need to have that defense in peak form.

Massey says Calvin will give up 39 points to Adrian today and 45.2 points per game on average for remaining games. Can Calvin do four points better than Massey's prediction each game? 

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 21, 2012, 04:27:07 PM
The  Albion women are laying one heck of a 2nd half defensive smackdown on the Dutch.  With a little over 5 minutes to play, Hope has one 2 point FG, three 3's and Liz Ellis is the only Hope player to score.

http://www.hope.edu/pr/athletics/livestats/
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 21, 2012, 04:33:27 PM
Quote from: sac on January 21, 2012, 04:27:07 PM
The  Albion women are laying one heck of a 2nd half defensive smackdown on the Dutch.  With a little over 5 minutes to play, Hope has one 2 point FG, three 3's and Liz Ellis is the only Hope player to score.

http://www.hope.edu/pr/athletics/livestats/

Hard to tell if its Albion or Hope.  Hope has 13 more shots and has caused 8 more turnovers, but they just can't throw it in the ocean.  0-16 on 3's in the first half, 21% shooting overall for the game.  The Hope D is typical, holding Albion to about 37% and causing 22 turnovers so far, but the offense seems horrendous.  Adrian has been giving Calvin a good game but a Calvin win seems inevitable.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 21, 2012, 04:50:28 PM
Albion 63 Hope 46
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 21, 2012, 04:56:55 PM
Calvin had their hands full at Adrian 55 - 52
CV 24 points.  Adrian out rebounded Calvin by 6.

Curious to hear what happened to Hope this p.m.  Just not like them to loose either by 17 pts. or at home.  Rewa from Albion is hard to handle.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 21, 2012, 05:01:02 PM
Congrats to Albion for a thrashing of Hope.  It would be hard to beat anyone shooting 16-69.  Albion did a nice job at the line, hitting 24-28 FT.  Hope's defense was sound, but I'm not sure of the logic behind 37 three point attempts, far more than the season average.  The game only got our of hand the last few minutes so most of those 3's were not part of a desparate comeback attempt.  In any case, a nice win for Albion. 

Calvin edged Adrian at Adrian by 3, it seems Adrian is much improved and their home court is a tough place to play.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 21, 2012, 05:04:50 PM
Albion started out the season 1-5, but now they're on an 11-game winning streak.

Three of those losses were to ranked teams, Calvin, DePauw, and Hope, and one was to 13-3 Ohio Northern.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 21, 2012, 05:06:02 PM
Quote from: realist on January 21, 2012, 04:56:55 PM
Calvin had their hands full at Adrian 55 - 52
CV 24 points.  Adrian out rebounded Calvin by 6.

Curious to hear what happened to Hope this p.m.  Just not like them to loose either by 17 pts. or at home.  Rewa from Albion is hard to handle.

I think Albion weathered the usual Hope pressure defense reasonably well (shot a respectable 38%, 23 turnovers but Hope did not make them pay much) and Albion played some of their own tough defense.  Hope crashed the offensive boards (had 21 offensive boards and almost 20 more shots than Albion) but they simply couldn't throw it in the ocean.  Credit the Albion defense.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 21, 2012, 05:17:55 PM
I was following the live stats, and just kept saying this is going to change any minute now.  I agree, credit Albion. 
Calvin gets Albion at home on Wed. so Ross better tell the ladies to bring their A game.  Second time around their just aren't many surprises.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 23, 2012, 08:35:50 PM
Quote from: sac on January 21, 2012, 04:27:07 PM
The  Albion women are laying one heck of a 2nd half defensive smackdown on the Dutch.  With a little over 5 minutes to play, Hope has one 2 point FG, three 3's and Liz Ellis is the only Hope player to score.

http://www.hope.edu/pr/athletics/livestats/

So is it really a matter of a defensive smackdown, or did the Dutch just have a really, really off night shooting?

Albion looks pretty average defensively, according to MIAA stats--6th in field goal pct defense, 8th in three-point field goal pct defense.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 23, 2012, 10:10:44 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on January 23, 2012, 08:35:50 PM
Quote from: sac on January 21, 2012, 04:27:07 PM
The  Albion women are laying one heck of a 2nd half defensive smackdown on the Dutch.  With a little over 5 minutes to play, Hope has one 2 point FG, three 3's and Liz Ellis is the only Hope player to score.

http://www.hope.edu/pr/athletics/livestats/

So is it really a matter of a defensive smackdown, or did the Dutch just have a really, really off night shooting?

Albion looks pretty average defensively, according to MIAA stats--6th in field goal pct defense, 8th in three-point field goal pct defense.


Not meaning to take anything away form Albion, but this was a very bad shooting night for the Dutch.  Albion packed the defense in the lane and Hope had many open looks from outside, shots they usually make at a pretty good rate.  That's one reason they shot so many more threes than normal, they were simply taking the shots that were open, shots they are normally happy to take.  But credit Albion for a defense that worked on this night. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on January 24, 2012, 08:29:03 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 23, 2012, 10:10:44 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on January 23, 2012, 08:35:50 PM
Quote from: sac on January 21, 2012, 04:27:07 PM
The  Albion women are laying one heck of a 2nd half defensive smackdown on the Dutch.  With a little over 5 minutes to play, Hope has one 2 point FG, three 3's and Liz Ellis is the only Hope player to score.

http://www.hope.edu/pr/athletics/livestats/

So is it really a matter of a defensive smackdown, or did the Dutch just have a really, really off night shooting?

Albion looks pretty average defensively, according to MIAA stats--6th in field goal pct defense, 8th in three-point field goal pct defense.


Not meaning to take anything away form Albion, but this was a very bad shooting night for the Dutch.  Albion packed the defense in the lane and Hope had many open looks from outside, shots they usually make at a pretty good rate.  That's one reason they shot so many more threes than normal, they were simply taking the shots that were open, shots they are normally happy to take.  But credit Albion for a defense that worked on this night.

Was it a pack defense or was it just a straight up zone defense?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on January 25, 2012, 06:56:09 PM
Woe to the team that gets Hope after a humiliating home loss.

Kazoo 9, Hope 31  (5 of Kazoo's 9 are from the line.   :o )

Maddie Burnett started the scoring with a layup 15 seconds in, promptly stole it back, and set up a Courtney Kust layup.  That's about how much of the first half has gone.  True that Albion and Kazoo are not a fair comparison, but Hope seems to have corrected its shooting malaise from 4 days ago, shooting 44.8%.  Defense wasn't really the problem vs. Albion, but it is noteworthy to point out that Hope has held the Hornets to just 10.0% (2-20) so far.  Turnovers are 8 for Hope to 18 for K. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 25, 2012, 07:33:22 PM
Woe to the team that beats Hope, and plays Calvin next.  C 106 - A 59. 
Calvin "en fuego"  FG's at 57.8%  (37-67).
3's at 59.3% 16-27.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 25, 2012, 07:38:04 PM
Hitting 16 treys--some kind of record?

Update--possibly for the Knights, but not for the league.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 25, 2012, 07:45:37 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on January 25, 2012, 07:38:04 PM
Hitting 16 treys--some kind of record?

Update--possibly for the Knights, but not for the league.
Trine hit 22 versus Albion 05.  In a game they lost 100-106.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on January 25, 2012, 08:24:30 PM
Kalamazoo improved in the second half, scoring more than twice as many points, and finishing with 26.7% shooting, but it was still too little.  Final score: 32-75, Hope.  Despite sitting the starters for most of the 2nd half, Hope's largest lead came at the end of the game.  They finished with 50% shooting for the game.  The bench accounted for more than 1/2 of the scoring with 38 points.  Second half turnovers looked about like the 1st, with 6 for Hope and 13 for K.

Frosh Rebekah Llorenz led the Dutch in scoring with 17 points on 7-7 shooting and 3-5 from the line, and pulled down 4 rebounds.  Katie Overway led in rebounding with 10 (4 pts, 2 assists, 1 block, 1 steal).  Burnett finished with 14, all in the 1st half, and Liz Ellis added 11.  For Kazoo, Nicole Antoine led with 8 and 8 rebounds,  and Anne Colonius tallied 4 points and 6 rebounts.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 25, 2012, 10:22:31 PM
Wow, quite a game for the knights, a fun game to watch. Lots of records, season and career bests, and other notable achievements. Albion is ranked #43 by Massey.

106 points is the most Calvin has scored since 1983. 16 treys is a school record. Lots of good passing. 28 assists!?  I guess the knights can beat a zone defense.

Career scoring highs for Irwin (15, 5/5 from behind the arc), Marsh (15), B. Verkaik (14).

It was fun watching Rewa and Verkaik battle at center. Unfortunately, the refs thought Rewa was a little too physical. She fouled out after only 13 minutes of playing time--though Verkaik had only 19.

The knights kept on scoring after clearing the bench, though the defense wasn't as effective.

The big win could put the Knights in first place in Massey's ranking.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on January 26, 2012, 09:30:25 AM
Great game for the Knights last night.  It was really fun to watch them play.  I think one of the best stats of the night was 28 assists on 37 made field goals.  They really moved the ball well last night!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on January 28, 2012, 01:54:22 PM
Calvin 49
Trine 9

15 minutes to go in the game.

Trine 3-27 for 11%
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 28, 2012, 02:22:02 PM
Calvin 73 Trine 26.  Not as close as the score would indicate. :)

Trine shot 7 of 42 or about 16.7%  All but one of the Calvin players scores.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sumfun on January 28, 2012, 02:43:26 PM
I knew the score on the scoreboard had to be reversed.  Couldn't imagine that Trine could blow out Calvin.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on February 01, 2012, 02:07:13 PM
I believe Carissa Verkaik is currently at 1,485 points.  An average game should bring her over the 1500 point mark tonight.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 01, 2012, 04:53:28 PM
Quote from: almcguirejr on February 01, 2012, 02:07:13 PM
I believe Carissa Verkaik is currently at 1,485 points.  An average game should bring her over the 1500 point mark tonight.

Fantastic milestone!  There will be many more before she's done, no doubt.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on February 01, 2012, 08:18:28 PM
Quote from: almcguirejr on February 01, 2012, 02:07:13 PM
I believe Carissa Verkaik is currently at 1,485 points.  An average game should bring her over the 1500 point mark tonight.

Calvin 79
Alma 49


Verkaik with 14 tonight.  Needs 1 point Saturday against Hope.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 01, 2012, 08:19:29 PM
KnightSlappy's estimates of regional rankings are out for women's basketball, and Calvin came in at #2 in the Great Lakes region, behind #1 Mount Union, who have a 16-1 regional record but a better strength of schedule. Calvin is #10 overall.

However, scheduling a single additional quality regional team, such as 15-3 Hanover, instead of one of the non-regional games, could move Calvin up to something like #4 nationally, if Calvin won.

The main reason this could be a problem is for home court advantage. It's theoretically possible that this dearth of quality non-conference regional teams on the schedule could cost home court advantage for the NCAA regionals, should Calvin get that far.

The top teams in D3 are rated by Massey as being close enough that Calvin would be a favorite against any other team at home, but several other top teams would be a slight favorite in an away game.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on February 01, 2012, 08:33:26 PM
Calvin is hot inside and outside now.  Thomas was 4-4 from three.  Irwin is an incredible 13-16 over the last three games in only 14 minutes per!  It is weird she doesn't get more minutes but at 20-0 hard to argue.  Hope is going to have a hard time taking away Verkaik, Hildabrand and the outside shooters and if they do then Kurncz, Wolffis and Englehard should come up big.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldtimer1937 on February 02, 2012, 06:58:41 AM
Here we come holland!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 02, 2012, 08:35:29 AM
Quote from: oldtimer1937 on February 02, 2012, 06:58:41 AM
Here we come holland!

Have to think Calvin is the heavy favorite in this one despite Hope playing at home.   Aside from the obvious differences in record and ranking, Calvin seems to be peaking while Hope has been shaky in the past few weeks.  Hope shooting has been down and opponent scoring and shooting % has been creeping up.  The fine play of freshman Llorens has been a blessing for Hope but the loss of Kussmaul to an ACL earlier in the season was a huge blow.  I'd say Calvin by 15.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 02, 2012, 08:52:37 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 02, 2012, 08:35:29 AM
Quote from: oldtimer1937 on February 02, 2012, 06:58:41 AM
Here we come holland!

Have to think Calvin is the heavy favorite in this one despite Hope playing at home.   Aside from the obvious differences in record and ranking, Calvin seems to be peaking while Hope has been shaky in the past few weeks.  Hope shooting has been down and opponent scoring and shooting % has been creeping up.  The fine play of freshman Llorens has been a blessing for Hope but the loss of Kussmaul to an ACL earlier in the season was a huge blow.  I'd say Calvin by 15.

Calvin hit 2 of 20 3-point attempts at the last Calvin-Hope game. Give them their season average and they win by 28. Of course, Hope's league-leading 3-pt defense played a part, but an average MIAA team on an average day would hit 5 of 20 vs Hope. I'm going to say Calvin by 20.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 02, 2012, 08:58:53 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 02, 2012, 08:52:37 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 02, 2012, 08:35:29 AM
Quote from: oldtimer1937 on February 02, 2012, 06:58:41 AM
Here we come holland!

Have to think Calvin is the heavy favorite in this one despite Hope playing at home.   Aside from the obvious differences in record and ranking, Calvin seems to be peaking while Hope has been shaky in the past few weeks.  Hope shooting has been down and opponent scoring and shooting % has been creeping up.  The fine play of freshman Llorens has been a blessing for Hope but the loss of Kussmaul to an ACL earlier in the season was a huge blow.  I'd say Calvin by 15.

Calvin hit 2 of 20 3-point attempts at the last Calvin-Hope game. Give them their season average and they win by 28. Of course, Hope's league-leading 3-pt defense played a part, but an average MIAA team on an average day would hit 5 of 20 vs Hope. I'm going to say Calvin by 20.



The way Calvin's playing, that wouldn't surprise me.  But I'm thinking Hope won't start out shooting 2-18 at home either and may finish a little better than last game's 34% despite Calvin's excellent defense.  But probably splitting hairs here, we're both saying a strong double digit Calvin win :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 03, 2012, 12:53:57 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 02, 2012, 08:52:37 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 02, 2012, 08:35:29 AM
Quote from: oldtimer1937 on February 02, 2012, 06:58:41 AM
Here we come holland!

Have to think Calvin is the heavy favorite in this one despite Hope playing at home.   Aside from the obvious differences in record and ranking, Calvin seems to be peaking while Hope has been shaky in the past few weeks.  Hope shooting has been down and opponent scoring and shooting % has been creeping up.  The fine play of freshman Llorens has been a blessing for Hope but the loss of Kussmaul to an ACL earlier in the season was a huge blow.  I'd say Calvin by 15.

Calvin hit 2 of 20 3-point attempts at the last Calvin-Hope game. Give them their season average and they win by 28. Of course, Hope's league-leading 3-pt defense played a part, but an average MIAA team on an average day would hit 5 of 20 vs Hope. I'm going to say Calvin by 20.

Massey likes Calvin by 8
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 03, 2012, 01:40:27 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 03, 2012, 12:53:57 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 02, 2012, 08:52:37 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 02, 2012, 08:35:29 AM
Quote from: oldtimer1937 on February 02, 2012, 06:58:41 AM
Here we come holland!

Have to think Calvin is the heavy favorite in this one despite Hope playing at home.   Aside from the obvious differences in record and ranking, Calvin seems to be peaking while Hope has been shaky in the past few weeks.  Hope shooting has been down and opponent scoring and shooting % has been creeping up.  The fine play of freshman Llorens has been a blessing for Hope but the loss of Kussmaul to an ACL earlier in the season was a huge blow.  I'd say Calvin by 15.

Calvin hit 2 of 20 3-point attempts at the last Calvin-Hope game. Give them their season average and they win by 28. Of course, Hope's league-leading 3-pt defense played a part, but an average MIAA team on an average day would hit 5 of 20 vs Hope. I'm going to say Calvin by 20.

Massey likes Calvin by 8

I'll take that - cause I'm sure we can find someway to cover those last 8 points, plus an extra or two for the win.  Go HOPE!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 03, 2012, 03:05:02 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 03, 2012, 12:53:57 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 02, 2012, 08:52:37 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 02, 2012, 08:35:29 AM
Quote from: oldtimer1937 on February 02, 2012, 06:58:41 AM
Here we come holland!

Have to think Calvin is the heavy favorite in this one despite Hope playing at home.   Aside from the obvious differences in record and ranking, Calvin seems to be peaking while Hope has been shaky in the past few weeks.  Hope shooting has been down and opponent scoring and shooting % has been creeping up.  The fine play of freshman Llorens has been a blessing for Hope but the loss of Kussmaul to an ACL earlier in the season was a huge blow.  I'd say Calvin by 15.

Calvin hit 2 of 20 3-point attempts at the last Calvin-Hope game. Give them their season average and they win by 28. Of course, Hope's league-leading 3-pt defense played a part, but an average MIAA team on an average day would hit 5 of 20 vs Hope. I'm going to say Calvin by 20.

Massey likes Calvin by 8

...and Calvin has won their last 10 games by an average of 8 points more than Massey's prediction.

So maybe I should have said Calvin by 16, but that was too close to roundball's prediction.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: GoKnights68 on February 04, 2012, 04:40:12 PM
Hope wins
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on February 04, 2012, 04:45:47 PM
OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Calvin 55
HOPE 59

Congrats Hope Ladies!!!    :D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 04, 2012, 10:02:17 PM
I think we should all be please the Hope/Calvin rivalry on the women's side is taking on some of the same characteristics we've enjoyed on the men's side for decades.


That loss at home to Albion probably stings a little more for the Dutch tonight.  :-\ .......another trait that has come over from the men's side.



This was a really big win for Hope.  I don't think making the NCAA tournament was a foregone conclusion, but this is a really, really big win when they sit down to discuss selections in 3 weeks.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 06, 2012, 09:40:11 AM
Quote from: sac on February 04, 2012, 10:02:17 PM
I think we should all be please the Hope/Calvin rivalry on the women's side is taking on some of the same characteristics we've enjoyed on the men's side for decades.


That loss at home to Albion probably stings a little more for the Dutch tonight.  :-\ .......another trait that has come over from the men's side.



This was a really big win for Hope.  I don't think making the NCAA tournament was a foregone conclusion, but this is a really, really big win when they sit down to discuss selections in 3 weeks.

Hope is still probably going to want to win the tournament. I don't expect that they'll show up in the GL rankings on Wednesday, and they won't get much boost in the SOS from here on out.

[EDIT] Maybe it's not as bad as I originally thought, but through this weekend's games, I have Hope as one of the last four out for a Pool C.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 07, 2012, 11:41:32 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 06, 2012, 09:40:11 AM
Quote from: sac on February 04, 2012, 10:02:17 PM
I think we should all be please the Hope/Calvin rivalry on the women's side is taking on some of the same characteristics we've enjoyed on the men's side for decades.


That loss at home to Albion probably stings a little more for the Dutch tonight.  :-\ .......another trait that has come over from the men's side.



This was a really big win for Hope.  I don't think making the NCAA tournament was a foregone conclusion, but this is a really, really big win when they sit down to discuss selections in 3 weeks.

Hope is still probably going to want to win the tournament. I don't expect that they'll show up in the GL rankings on Wednesday, and they won't get much boost in the SOS from here on out.

[EDIT] Maybe it's not as bad as I originally thought, but through this weekend's games, I have Hope as one of the last four out for a Pool C.

Great work KnightSlappy!  I've been enjoying your blog all year and I am glad that you chose to do the regional rankings for women as well this year.

It seems that win was huge for Hope in terms of making the tournament this year.  Had they not won that game and then lost in the conference tournament they might be staying home this year.  It will be interesting to see the regional rankings this Wednesday.  Based strictly on the numbers you have DePauw and Mount Union ahead of Calvin.  It will be interesting to see how the committee votes.  Can't wait!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 07, 2012, 11:48:19 AM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 07, 2012, 11:41:32 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 06, 2012, 09:40:11 AM
Quote from: sac on February 04, 2012, 10:02:17 PM
I think we should all be please the Hope/Calvin rivalry on the women's side is taking on some of the same characteristics we've enjoyed on the men's side for decades.


That loss at home to Albion probably stings a little more for the Dutch tonight.  :-\ .......another trait that has come over from the men's side.



This was a really big win for Hope.  I don't think making the NCAA tournament was a foregone conclusion, but this is a really, really big win when they sit down to discuss selections in 3 weeks.

Hope is still probably going to want to win the tournament. I don't expect that they'll show up in the GL rankings on Wednesday, and they won't get much boost in the SOS from here on out.

[EDIT] Maybe it's not as bad as I originally thought, but through this weekend's games, I have Hope as one of the last four out for a Pool C.

Great work KnightSlappy!  I've been enjoying your blog all year and I am glad that you chose to do the regional rankings for women as well this year.

It seems that win was huge for Hope in terms of making the tournament this year.  Had they not won that game and then lost in the conference tournament they might be staying home this year.  It will be interesting to see the regional rankings this Wednesday.  Based strictly on the numbers you have DePauw and Mount Union ahead of Calvin.  It will be interesting to see how the committee votes.  Can't wait!

Had they not won that game and lost in the MIAA tourney, they DEFINITELY would have been staying home. After winning, they're looking more like 25% chance of Pool C (assuming no losses until a loss versus Calvin in the MIAA tourney).

Saturday's loss could be damaging to Calvin's chances at hosting ANY tournament games. :(
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 07, 2012, 12:47:09 PM
Time will tell but I'd happily make a bet, especially at 3-1 odds, that Hope will be in, barring any upset losses from here out.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 07, 2012, 12:52:07 PM
USA Today/ESPN weekly coaches poll out, Calvin #5 and Hope #14 this week.  Rochester had the biggest drop, falling from #6 to #13 just one point in front of Hope.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on February 08, 2012, 10:29:02 PM
Congratulations to coach Ross for his 200th collegiate win tonight.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 11, 2012, 08:09:27 PM
Congratulations to the Calvin women for clinching at least a share of the MIAA regular season title with a 67-44 win today at Olivet. They can clinch the outright title next Wednesday with a win at home against St. Mary's.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 11, 2012, 08:37:12 PM
Hope women won at Alma 73-56 to secure another 20 win season, running their record to 20-3.  Injuries are becoming a real concern.  Starting center Meredith Kussmaul went down with an ACL 10 games into the season after a very strong start.  Wednesday freshman reserve Hannah Doell fractured her arm against Olivet; she made some big plays in the win against Calvin.  Today it appeared that freshman center Rebekah Llorens injured an arm or shoulder, not sure how seriously.  She has been a huge contributor especially in Kussmaul's absence, racking up a number of double-doubles and playing as well as any rookie in the league. 

Congratulations to Calvin on a great season so far.  I'm rooting for any MIAA teams to do well in the tournament!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 15, 2012, 07:56:22 PM
WOW. Trine 52, Hope 50. I believe this was Trine's first ever win over the Flying Dutch (a 20 game losing streak, at any rate).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 15, 2012, 09:11:04 PM
Calvin 73 SMC 52.  CV 21 pts and 14 rebounds.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 15, 2012, 10:16:10 PM
Quote from: realist on February 15, 2012, 09:11:04 PM
Calvin 73 SMC 52.  CV 21 pts and 14 rebounds.

To go along with 5 blocks and 5 assists.

Congrats to Calvin for winning the MIAA championship!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 16, 2012, 06:13:31 AM
The Belles have been playing well lately, winning five of their last six games, beating Albion, and losing by only 4 to Hope. They played well again last night, holding Calvin's offense in check for most of the first half. Verkaik didn't score her first points until most of the way through the first half, and St Mary's took the lead at 20-19 with three minutes left in the first half.

At some point in the second half, something changed -- maybe the Belles tired a bit, maybe Calvin got their act together, and we started seeing the great ball movement and scoring that we've seen from the knights in some other games.

Calvin set a new MIAA season record for defensive field goal percentage, at 29%, improving on Hope's 29.4% of last year. Calvin also set a record for fewest field goals allowed. Hilbrands may have set a new MIAA season record for shooting percentage, at 68.8% -- if she hit enough field goals to qualify.

Verkaik tied her previous MIAA season record of 60 blocks in a season. She also moved into fifth place in the MIAA career scoring board, with 886 points in MIAA games -- just behind Marcia Harris and Lisa Winkle. She needs only 166 points next year to take over the #1 spot. Verkaik also moved into second place on Calvin's career scoring list, with 1565 points.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on February 16, 2012, 05:57:19 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 16, 2012, 06:13:31 AM


Calvin set a new MIAA season record for defensive field goal percentage, at 29%, improving on Hope's 29.4% of last year. Calvin also set a record for fewest field goals allowed. Hilbrands may have set a new MIAA season record for shooting percentage, at 68.8% -- if she hit enough field goals to qualify.

Verkaik tied her previous MIAA season record of 60 blocks in a season. She also moved into fifth place in the MIAA career scoring board, with 886 points in MIAA games -- just behind Marcia Harris and Lisa Winkle. She needs only 166 points next year to take over the #1 spot. Verkaik also moved into second place on Calvin's career scoring list, with 1565 points.

WOW!

Could she play for the guys for a few games?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 18, 2012, 04:54:03 PM
Hope survives against Adrian 55-49  with "survives" being the operative word.  Yet another Hope player is out; senior starter Maddie Burnett missed the game following a concussion she suffered during the upset loss at Trine on Wednesday.  She joined starter Meredith Kussmaul and reserves Hannah Doell and Liz Siepker on the bench, all out with injuries.

I believe the MIAA tournament is set, with semifinals on Thursday pitting Albion at Hope and St. Mary's at Calvin.  Good luck to all four and congratulations to all the MIAA women's teams on another fine season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on February 20, 2012, 10:29:07 PM
Having seen video of most of the top ranked teams in the nation, I think George Fox, curently ranked #3, is the team to beat.  Very good ball handling team with a 6'5" center that is very difficult to handle.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 21, 2012, 06:42:44 AM
Quote from: wiz on February 20, 2012, 10:29:07 PM
Having seen video of most of the top ranked teams in the nation, I think George Fox, curently ranked #3, is the team to beat.  Very good ball handling team with a 6'5" center that is very difficult to handle.

How do you think Calvin matches up with them considering their defense and CV inside?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on February 21, 2012, 12:44:57 PM
Here's my take.

Munger is a different kind of big than Verkaik. Verkaik has guard skills in a forward's body. Munger reminds me of the 1980s NBA centers who would position themselves close to the rim, back to the basket, call for the ball and make a quick post move. Think Patrick Ewing style-play.

I don't think Verkaik is physical enough to guard Munger one on one in the post (though the Knights could double or play zone).  I'm not sure Munger is quick enough to guard Verkaik away from the rim, though. George Fox likes to put its talented post in the middle of a 2-3 zone and funnel all shots toward her. Some teams test the big and get their shots blocked (like Hope did against George Fox when the Bruins won the title). Others start settling for a lot of threes.

One thing Calvin has over George Fox, though, is depth at the forward. Calvin has other tall forwards who can play around the rim. George Fox doesn't have as much depth, at least not that I've seen.

Given a choice between the two teams, I'd take George Fox. Their guards are a little bigger and seem like better scorers off the dribble.  But it would be a very close game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 21, 2012, 04:10:42 PM
Carissa Verkaik was named to the Cosida D3 all-american team today.  The link to the full list is about a 2 inch scroll down the page.
http://www.cosida.com/news.aspx?id=3565
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 21, 2012, 11:15:56 PM
Quote from: gordonmann link=topic=4515.msg1404585#msg1404585 date

Given a choice between the two teams, I'd take George Fox. Their guards are a little bigger and seem like better scorers off the dribble.  But it would be a very close game.

If they do meet, it could well be in Holland, which would be a near home-game situation for the knights. Might make a difference.

The knights would likely have some very difficult games to get past to get to that point, though, like Chicago or DePauw, and those are unlikely to be home games for the knights.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on February 22, 2012, 03:22:19 PM
True. Good point.  Calvin would at least be more familiar with DeVos than George Fox.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 22, 2012, 03:32:03 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on February 22, 2012, 03:22:19 PM
True. Good point.  Calvin would at least be more familiar with DeVos than George Fox.

George Fox won their National Championship at DeVos Fieldhouse.  Probably not as familiar, but good memories all the same.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 22, 2012, 04:40:54 PM
Quote from: sac on February 22, 2012, 03:32:03 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on February 22, 2012, 03:22:19 PM
True. Good point.  Calvin would at least be more familiar with DeVos than George Fox.

George Fox won their National Championship at DeVos Fieldhouse.  Probably not as familiar, but good memories all the same.

Hmm, I didn't realize that. But Calvin would probably have a couple thousand fans for a final four game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 23, 2012, 03:03:54 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 22, 2012, 04:40:54 PM
Quote from: sac on February 22, 2012, 03:32:03 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on February 22, 2012, 03:22:19 PM
True. Good point.  Calvin would at least be more familiar with DeVos than George Fox.

George Fox won their National Championship at DeVos Fieldhouse.  Probably not as familiar, but good memories all the same.

Hmm, I didn't realize that. But Calvin would probably have a couple thousand fans for a final four game.

Also true.

If I'm thinking correctly, Calvin's Sr's have played 4 games in DeVos, George Fox's Sr's 2.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 23, 2012, 10:22:38 PM
Calvin 78 St. Mary's 50
Hope 58 Albion 50

Saturday night

Hope @ Calvin 7:30pm
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 23, 2012, 10:51:29 PM
Quote from: sac on February 23, 2012, 10:22:38 PM
Calvin 78 St. Mary's 50
Hope 58 Albion 50

Saturday night

Hope @ Calvin 7:30pm

Hope 58 Albion 55
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on February 24, 2012, 08:15:44 AM
This puts it in perspective.
http://www.mlive.com/smallcolleges/grandrapids/index.ssf/2012/02/calvin_college_teammates_offer.html
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on February 24, 2012, 08:48:04 AM
Quote from: almcguirejr on February 24, 2012, 08:15:44 AM
This puts it all in perspective.
http://www.mlive.com/smallcolleges/grandrapids/index.ssf/2012/02/calvin_college_teammates_offer.html

Very special and heart-warming story that is so typical of D3 basketball.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 24, 2012, 11:13:32 AM
Calvin-Hope III tomorrow. Massey says Calvin by 14. Ross says that Hope presents matchup problems and the Knights will have to play their best game of the season to win.

Even allowing for a little coachspeak, I do expect it to be a hard-fought, competitive, close, fun game to watch.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 24, 2012, 11:20:47 AM
Looking forward to it - after a mad dash down I-196 and M6 following the men 's game.  I suspect there will be quite a caravan of Hope folks heading that way.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 24, 2012, 11:25:19 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 24, 2012, 11:13:32 AM
Calvin-Hope III tomorrow. Massey says Calvin by 14. Ross says that Hope presents matchup problems and the Knights will have to play their best game of the season to win.

Even allowing for a little coachspeak, I do expect it to be a hard-fought, competitive, close, fun game to watch.

Definitely agree with you.  Both teams bring their best when playing against each other and this one should be no different.  With Massey looking strictly at numbers I think his prediction is pretty accurate, but this game is so much more than that.  I expect it to be a close one with Calvin winning by single digits.

Looks like Hope might be playing for their only chance to make the tournament as well.

Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 24, 2012, 11:20:47 AM
Looking forward to it - after a mad dash down I-196 and M6 following the men 's game.  I suspect there will be quite a caravan of Hope folks heading that way.

Don't drive too fast now  ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 24, 2012, 01:08:40 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 24, 2012, 11:25:19 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 24, 2012, 11:13:32 AM
Calvin-Hope III tomorrow. Massey says Calvin by 14. Ross says that Hope presents matchup problems and the Knights will have to play their best game of the season to win.

Even allowing for a little coachspeak, I do expect it to be a hard-fought, competitive, close, fun game to watch.

Definitely agree with you.  Both teams bring their best when playing against each other and this one should be no different.  With Massey looking strictly at numbers I think his prediction is pretty accurate, but this game is so much more than that.  I expect it to be a close one with Calvin winning by single digits.

Looks like Hope might be playing for their only chance to make the tournament as well.


If Hope wins, it'll be a virtual mirror image of last year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on February 24, 2012, 04:52:13 PM
Not really,  Calvin and Hope were Co league champs last year....this year Calvin won the league outright. :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: section7 on February 25, 2012, 07:56:40 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 24, 2012, 11:13:32 AM
Calvin-Hope III tomorrow. Massey says Calvin by 14. Ross says that Hope presents matchup problems and the Knights will have to play their best game of the season to win.

Even allowing for a little coachspeak, I do expect it to be a hard-fought, competitive, close, fun game to watch.

I would say this one is over.........except for the final score..............Calvin 22-3, 707 to go in 1st half.

Hope is 1-22..............OUCH
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 25, 2012, 08:19:04 PM
Astonishing.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 25, 2012, 09:05:17 PM
Calvin 65 Hope 43
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 25, 2012, 09:28:01 PM
Hope started the last game at Calvin shooting 2-18, even worse this time.  The Dutch have been shooting relatively poorly for the last 10 games or so, much lower % than earlier in the season.  That's not going to get it done against a team the caliber of Calvin.  Congrats to the Calvin ladies on a well deserved championship!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 25, 2012, 10:11:46 PM
Now that was unexpected. Not the Calvin win but how we got there. The defense was phenomenal, holding Hope to 5-35 in the opening half, and the Flying Dutch had to make three of their last five shots just to get to double digits in points at the break. If the Lady Knights had been clicking on offense it would have been worse but they only shot 12-34 themselves in the first 20 minutes. Carissa Verkaik seemed to have an ordinary game on offense, and her usually excellent free throw shooting deserted her (5-9) but she still nearly had a triple-double with 15 points, 19 rebounds and 9 blocks. What a performance. Liz Ellis really struggled for Hope (1-15) and Calvin's freshmen, Kayla Engelhard completely outplayed her at the point.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on February 25, 2012, 10:15:46 PM
It just wasn't Hope's night, but they played with intensity throughout.  While they had difficulty with the baskets, I thought their defensee was strong and their ball movement was good.  Calvin's defense was suffocating and the team seemed to be  better prepared mentally.  Verkaik's footwork on both offense and defense is as good or better than any of the bigs in the MIAA, men or women.  Like the Hope men, the Calvin women should have some home court advantage for a while in the NCAA tournament.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hwbb on February 25, 2012, 11:08:14 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 25, 2012, 09:42:05 PM

In the second half, Hope went into dark-alley-mugging mode...

That assessment is as inaccurate as it is unfair to the players of both team. Yes, it was a physical second half, on both ends of the floor. But what team, facing a huge deficit against a superior opponent, sits back passively in a zone? Dark-alley-mugging? Not. even. close. Calvin is a terrific team, national championship caliber this season. They won by playing better. Over a team that fell behind big, but didn't quit playing hard.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 25, 2012, 11:18:41 PM
Quote from: Hwbb on February 25, 2012, 11:08:14 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 25, 2012, 09:42:05 PM

In the second half, Hope went into dark-alley-mugging mode...

That assessment is as inaccurate as it is unfair to the players of both team. Yes, it was a physical second half, on both ends of the floor. But what team, facing a huge deficit against a superior opponent, sits back passively in a zone? Dark-alley-mugging? Not. even. close. Calvin is a terrific team, national championship caliber this season. They won by playing better. Over a team that fell behind big, but didn't quit playing hard.

When your board name is Dark Knight, then Dark-alley-mugging may be more of an observation than a criticism.  The phrase might have been hyperbole but there's no doubt the Hope women went out of their way to push the envelope of physical play in the second half. You often see that happen when a good team finds themselves down 20 at the break. They try to get back in the game by playing more clutch and grab than normal, daring the refs to call them on it. Call it they did. The second half kind of had the feel for me of a Gus Macker or similar three-on-three event.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ziggy on February 25, 2012, 11:23:55 PM
Quote from: oldknight on February 25, 2012, 11:18:41 PM
Quote from: Hwbb on February 25, 2012, 11:08:14 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 25, 2012, 09:42:05 PM

In the second half, Hope went into dark-alley-mugging mode...

That assessment is as inaccurate as it is unfair to the players of both team. Yes, it was a physical second half, on both ends of the floor. But what team, facing a huge deficit against a superior opponent, sits back passively in a zone? Dark-alley-mugging? Not. even. close. Calvin is a terrific team, national championship caliber this season. They won by playing better. Over a team that fell behind big, but didn't quit playing hard.

When your board name is Dark Knight, then Dark-alley-mugging may be more of an observation than a criticism.  The phrase might have been hyperbole but there's no doubt the Hope women went out of their way to push the envelope of physical play in the second half. You often see that happen when a good team finds themselves down 20 at the break. They try to get back in the game by playing more clutch and grab than normal, daring the refs to call them on it. Call it they did. The second half kind of had the feel for me of a Gus Macker or similar three-on-three event.

We've seen that before, at least this time it didn't result in a blown-out knee for a Lady Knight.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 26, 2012, 06:45:33 AM
One thing that has been unique about this rivalry is that players, coaches and fans are usually more gracious than most, before and after games, win or lose.  It would be unfortunate if that were spoiled.

Both teams played hard.  Congratulations to Calvin on a well deserved win and to both teams on fine seasons. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Happy Calvin Guy on February 26, 2012, 11:46:09 AM
Quote from: ziggy on February 25, 2012, 11:23:55 PM
Quote from: oldknight on February 25, 2012, 11:18:41 PM
Quote from: Hwbb on February 25, 2012, 11:08:14 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 25, 2012, 09:42:05 PM

In the second half, Hope went into dark-alley-mugging mode...

That assessment is as inaccurate as it is unfair to the players of both team. Yes, it was a physical second half, on both ends of the floor. But what team, facing a huge deficit against a superior opponent, sits back passively in a zone? Dark-alley-mugging? Not. even. close. Calvin is a terrific team, national championship caliber this season. They won by playing better. Over a team that fell behind big, but didn't quit playing hard.

When your board name is Dark Knight, then Dark-alley-mugging may be more of an observation than a criticism.  The phrase might have been hyperbole but there's no doubt the Hope women went out of their way to push the envelope of physical play in the second half. You often see that happen when a good team finds themselves down 20 at the break. They try to get back in the game by playing more clutch and grab than normal, daring the refs to call them on it. Call it they did. The second half kind of had the feel for me of a Gus Macker or similar three-on-three event.

We've seen that before, at least this time it didn't result in a blown-out knee for a Lady Knight.

Great prep if we end up having to play U of Chicago in the NCAA's again.  I have a feeling that will be the biggest barrier in our side of the bracket.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 26, 2012, 01:43:07 PM
Quote from: wiz on February 25, 2012, 10:15:46 PM
Like the Hope men, the Calvin women should have some home court advantage for a while in the NCAA tournament.

I'm not so sure. I'd like to think they'd get the chance to host the first two rounds, but with Chicago, Mount Union, DePauw, UW-Stevens Point, and Wash U probably getting to host in the same range as Calvin, they might not even get a pod.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 26, 2012, 02:24:56 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 26, 2012, 01:43:07 PM
Quote from: wiz on February 25, 2012, 10:15:46 PM
Like the Hope men, the Calvin women should have some home court advantage for a while in the NCAA tournament.

I'm not so sure. I'd like to think they'd get the chance to host the first two rounds, but with Chicago, Mount Union, DePauw, UW-Stevens Point, and Wash U probably getting to host in the same range as Calvin, they might not even get a pod.

Think of all of Hope's great teams and their records over the past decade and count the number of home games they actually got to play in the NCAA.  In this part of the country its just hard, maybe even harder than for the men.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 26, 2012, 02:37:15 PM
sac, they did have a number of home FFs - unfortunately, they sometimes forgot to be good hosts and show up! ;D

(I'll beat everyone to it - IWU did the same the first year they hosted, and dropped both games last year! :P)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 26, 2012, 05:00:11 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 26, 2012, 01:43:07 PM
Quote from: wiz on February 25, 2012, 10:15:46 PM
Like the Hope men, the Calvin women should have some home court advantage for a while in the NCAA tournament.

I'm not so sure. I'd like to think they'd get the chance to host the first two rounds, but with Chicago, Mount Union, DePauw, UW-Stevens Point, and Wash U probably getting to host in the same range as Calvin, they might not even get a pod.

I agree with you that Calvin might not get to host this year unfortunately.  What has been hurting them this year is their strength of schedule and Hope not being regionally ranked. 

But what do you think about Hope being 3rd in the region last year and still hosting?  Could this be a similar situation Calvin is in this year being 3rd?  The GL region had the 1, 2, and 3 teams all host last year.  I know it's different each year (and who knows what the crazy NCAA will throw out there) but just thought I'd ask your opinion.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 26, 2012, 05:33:41 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 26, 2012, 05:00:11 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 26, 2012, 01:43:07 PM
Quote from: wiz on February 25, 2012, 10:15:46 PM
Like the Hope men, the Calvin women should have some home court advantage for a while in the NCAA tournament.

I'm not so sure. I'd like to think they'd get the chance to host the first two rounds, but with Chicago, Mount Union, DePauw, UW-Stevens Point, and Wash U probably getting to host in the same range as Calvin, they might not even get a pod.

I agree with you that Calvin might not get to host this year unfortunately.  What has been hurting them this year is their strength of schedule and Hope not being regionally ranked. 

But what do you think about Hope being 3rd in the region last year and still hosting?  Could this be a similar situation Calvin is in this year being 3rd?  The GL region had the 1, 2, and 3 teams all host last year.  I know it's different each year (and who knows what the crazy NCAA will throw out there) but just thought I'd ask your opinion.

Calvin could, and probably 'should' host in the first two rounds, but geography could bump them out.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 26, 2012, 07:16:21 PM
John Ross is on Hoopsville with Dave McHugh right now.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 26, 2012, 09:05:28 PM
Thanks KS.  What are you thoughts on Hope getting an at-large bid?  Also, are you going to be posting a final regional rankings for the women?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 26, 2012, 09:11:01 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 26, 2012, 09:05:28 PM
Thanks KS.  What are you thoughts on Hope getting an at-large bid?  Also, are you going to be posting a final regional rankings for the women?

Was wondering the same about Hope.  I know they are not near the top of NCAA regional rankings, was wondering if the fact that most of the teams in front of them in the region are automatic qualifiers makes any difference...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 26, 2012, 09:44:20 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 26, 2012, 09:11:01 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 26, 2012, 09:05:28 PM
Thanks KS.  What are you thoughts on Hope getting an at-large bid?  Also, are you going to be posting a final regional rankings for the women?

Was wondering the same about Hope.  I know they are not near the top of NCAA regional rankings, was wondering if the fact that most of the teams in front of them in the region are automatic qualifiers makes any difference...

I think Hope is out. They haven't been ranked yet, and 'only' went 1-1 since the last rankings.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 27, 2012, 08:39:13 AM
Pat Coleman's projection is up:

http://static.psbin.com/t/s/sadj43c29nr3hg/d3hoops-2012-wbb-projection.pdf

He has Calvin v. Wisconsin Lutheran, UW-Whitewater v. Thomas More in a Calvin pod. This would set up a potential Calvin-Chicago Sweet Sixteen match up (presumably in Chicago).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 27, 2012, 09:02:12 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 26, 2012, 09:44:20 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 26, 2012, 09:11:01 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 26, 2012, 09:05:28 PM
Thanks KS.  What are you thoughts on Hope getting an at-large bid?  Also, are you going to be posting a final regional rankings for the women?

Was wondering the same about Hope.  I know they are not near the top of NCAA regional rankings, was wondering if the fact that most of the teams in front of them in the region are automatic qualifiers makes any difference...

I think Hope is out. They haven't been ranked yet, and 'only' went 1-1 since the last rankings.

Would be a shame, 22-5 record not bad, top 20 ranked all year, beat 2 AQ teams (Calvin, Ithaca), but I admit I don't pretend to understand details of how the selection is done.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ziggy on February 27, 2012, 02:45:04 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 27, 2012, 08:39:13 AM
Pat Coleman's projection is up:

http://static.psbin.com/t/s/sadj43c29nr3hg/d3hoops-2012-wbb-projection.pdf

He has Calvin v. Wisconsin Lutheran, UW-Whitewater v. Thomas More in a Calvin pod. This would set up a potential Calvin-Chicago Sweet Sixteen match up (presumably in Chicago).

Pat nailed the matchup, however it will be UWSP and Franklin in the other game at VNA. Can't look ahead to sweet 16 but that is where Chicago and Calvin would meet.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 27, 2012, 02:51:49 PM
Bracket: http://static.psbin.com/w/u/nxuhdbni5h51o4/wbb-bracket-2012.pdf

No Hope.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 27, 2012, 02:54:41 PM
So both UWSP teams are coming to west Michigan - nice!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ziggy on February 27, 2012, 02:54:51 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 27, 2012, 02:51:49 PM
Bracket: http://static.psbin.com/w/u/nxuhdbni5h51o4/wbb-bracket-2012.pdf

No Hope.

My knee-jerk impression is that the average women's Pool C resume looks more impressive than on the men's side. Hope women may have had a strong case that just didn't stack up to others by the numbers.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 27, 2012, 03:18:31 PM
Quote from: ziggy on February 27, 2012, 02:54:51 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 27, 2012, 02:51:49 PM
Bracket: http://static.psbin.com/w/u/nxuhdbni5h51o4/wbb-bracket-2012.pdf

No Hope.

My knee-jerk impression is that the average women's Pool C resume looks more impressive than on the men's side. Hope women may have had a strong case that just didn't stack up to others by the numbers.

Agreed.  Interesting that one of Hope's better wins, against out-of-region Ithaca (#2 and hosting in the East) actually may have hurt them as compared to scheduling a weaker team within the GL region.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ziggy on February 27, 2012, 03:22:58 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 27, 2012, 03:18:31 PM
Quote from: ziggy on February 27, 2012, 02:54:51 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 27, 2012, 02:51:49 PM
Bracket: http://static.psbin.com/w/u/nxuhdbni5h51o4/wbb-bracket-2012.pdf

No Hope.

My knee-jerk impression is that the average women's Pool C resume looks more impressive than on the men's side. Hope women may have had a strong case that just didn't stack up to others by the numbers.

Agreed.  Interesting that one of Hope's better wins, against out-of-region Ithaca (#2 and hosting in the East) actually may have hurt them as compared to scheduling a weaker team within the GL region.

Losing to Trine was the bigger transgression (followed by losing to Albion and Capital), but you could be right.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 27, 2012, 03:28:39 PM
Quote from: ziggy on February 27, 2012, 03:22:58 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 27, 2012, 03:18:31 PM
Quote from: ziggy on February 27, 2012, 02:54:51 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 27, 2012, 02:51:49 PM
Bracket: http://static.psbin.com/w/u/nxuhdbni5h51o4/wbb-bracket-2012.pdf

No Hope.

My knee-jerk impression is that the average women's Pool C resume looks more impressive than on the men's side. Hope women may have had a strong case that just didn't stack up to others by the numbers.

Agreed.  Interesting that one of Hope's better wins, against out-of-region Ithaca (#2 and hosting in the East) actually may have hurt them as compared to scheduling a weaker team within the GL region.

Losing to Trine was the bigger transgression (followed by losing to Albion and Capital), but you could be right.

No doubt, those losses were big and Hope didn't take care of business when it needed to.  The regional system may have its problems, but everyone knows it going in. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on February 27, 2012, 04:53:58 PM
I think Calvin got a fair deal with their draw in the tournament.  Hate to see Chicago in the same bracket but at this point, one has to be prepared to face anyone, anytime.  At least the Lady Knights have faced Chicago before, so there is some familiarity to work with.
Go Monmouth!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on February 28, 2012, 12:10:19 PM
Congratulations to Carissa Verkaik for receiving MIAA MVP for three consecutive years!  One more to go in her senior year and she will have run the table. 
http://www.miaa.org/wbb/ (http://www.miaa.org/wbb/)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 28, 2012, 01:40:56 PM
Quote from: wiz on February 27, 2012, 04:53:58 PM
I think Calvin got a fair deal with their draw in the tournament.  Hate to see Chicago in the same bracket but at this point, one has to be prepared to face anyone, anytime.  At least the Lady Knights have faced Chicago before, so there is some familiarity to work with.
Go Monmouth!

UWSP wouldn't be a cakewalk in round two either.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 28, 2012, 01:52:11 PM
Carissa has also been nominated for the Josten's Award:

http://d3hoops.com/notables/2012/02/jostens-trophy-finalists-announced

I believe Lisa Winkle was a Josten's winner a few years back.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 28, 2012, 02:55:24 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 28, 2012, 01:52:11 PM
Carissa has also been nominated for the Josten's Award:

http://d3hoops.com/notables/2012/02/jostens-trophy-finalists-announced

I believe Lisa Winkle was a Josten's winner a few years back.

Yes you are correct.  She won the award her senior year in 06-07.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on February 29, 2012, 07:54:24 AM
Wisconsin Lutheran will be no cakewalk for Calvin on Friday night.  I suggest the Lady Knights keep close tabs on Rachel Johnson, a gifted athlete.  Click on the video to see her and her and her talented teammates in action http://wlcsports.com/article.asp?articleID=2459 (http://wlcsports.com/article.asp?articleID=2459).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WLCALUM83 on February 29, 2012, 10:20:01 AM
One of WLC's 2 starting freshman forwards got the "Freshman of the Year" award in the Northern Athletics Conference.

http://northernac.org/sports/wbkb/2011-12/all-conference
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on March 01, 2012, 09:26:34 PM
From Calvin's sports email:

A tournament website for the upcoming four-team regional at Calvin is now online at: http://www.calvin.edu/sports/womens/basketball/ncaaregional.htm

The website includes a look at all four teams competing in the regional field. The preview can be found at: http://www.calvin.edu/sports/news/comments/womens-basketball-preview-for-ncaa-iii-regional-at-calvin-college-march-2-a/

Live stats of all three games will be available at: http://www.calvin.edu/scoreboard. All three games will also be video streamed at: http://client.stretchinternet.com/client/calvin.portal#
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope52 on March 02, 2012, 09:12:58 AM
good luck to calvin tonight
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 02, 2012, 09:08:28 PM
Nice job.  Calvin.   59-47
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on March 02, 2012, 10:01:42 PM
A battle all the way.  No shots were easy for either team.  Shut down Johnson in the first half and that may have been the difference.  Calvin will have their hands full tomorrow night with UWSP.  Very good officiating.  Would be happy to see this crew at every game, men's and women's.
Go Calvin!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Intangir on March 02, 2012, 10:05:09 PM
Solid win by the Knights tonight. Calvin led most of the game but Wisc-Lutheran never let up and was always ready with a big play to keep it close - the final 12 point margin was the only time Calvin's lead seemed at all safe. Calvin seemed to struggle a bit with rebounding and some poor shooting but played great defense, they ran the Warrior's shot clock out more than a few times and had quite a few good steals. Looking forward to another great game against UWSP tomorrow.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 02, 2012, 10:15:34 PM
WLC was well coached, and well prepared for the game.   Don't recall many games with that rebound spread, and would prefer not to see any more. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WLCALUM83 on March 02, 2012, 11:12:40 PM
Your Lady Knights got a boat-load more points off turnovers than WLC did, and even though the Warriors had a rebounding advantage, they had too many chances they didn't convert on. It took the whole game to get a scoring output WLC got in one half in its' previous game against Dominican--quite a statement for Calvin's defense.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 03, 2012, 12:01:38 AM
Both defenses were excellent tonight, with WL frustrating Carissa Verkaik in the first half in ways I have not seen before, limiting her to 1-4 from the floor, while still covering the other Lady Knight players too. After the break CV showed the kind of player she is by scoring 17. WL simply wasn't going to be able to score enough to beat Calvin, even with repeated second and third chances. Calvin's poor rebounding was terribly disappointing and, if that continues, it won't permit them to move much further down the tournament road. The Lady Knights won't be able to harrass every team they see as much as they did Wisconsin Lutheran.

Other than Verkaik, only Calvin's fine point guard, Kayla Engelhard played well on offense. She scored 14 and took care of the ball extremely well committing only one turnover. She is a superb floor general and very composed.

An excellent turnout by the WL fans, especially their student section which came in large numbers and quite energized. They added a lot of much needed excitement to the arena and came in larger numbers than the Calvin students, a fact I thought was somewhat embarrassing. They also jammed well with the pep band at half. Well done by the WL students.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on March 03, 2012, 11:54:55 AM
I agree with oldknight's assessment.  I would add that it appeared to me coach Ross was trying to draw out the WL bigs by having Verkaik play up high and find the open Wolfis underneath.  At halftime, he made the adjustment to go the tried and true way and turn Carissa loose underneath, where she performed very well in drawing fouls and scoring.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on March 03, 2012, 10:29:26 PM
Good game for Calvin tonight.  Carissa did her usual, Kayla is money and Courtney makes a lot happen with her athleticism and smarts.  But, tonight, it was Julia Hilbrands who played her heart out and made the difference.  Without her, Calvin would have lost.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: calvinite on March 03, 2012, 10:47:36 PM
Agreed, Julia was fantastic on offense, defense, AND at the free throw line.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 03, 2012, 10:50:52 PM
Quote from: wiz on March 03, 2012, 10:29:26 PM
Good game for Calvin tonight.  Carissa did her usual, Kayla is money and Courtney makes a lot happen with her athleticism and smarts.  But, tonight, it was Julia Hilbrands who played her heart out and made the difference.  Without her, Calvin would have lost.

You're quite right, Julia had a career night when she had to have one for Calvin to win. Of course, she was recipient of many good entry passes from Kurncz who also had nine big second half points when the game was on the line. But Julia finished well around the basket and hit her free throws. Carissa was her usual outstanding self going for a quiet 29 points, 11 boards, and 6 blocks. She's so consistently good you come to expect it and she made many big shots down the stretch--none bigger than the two triples she made when Calvin was trailing in the final ten minutes.

For WSP, Barber was a revelation, a terrific athlete and very smart on both sides of the ball. She's a real gamer any coach would want on their team. She single-handedly nearly willed her team to victory. The Pointers were a very worthy opponent.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: knights2000 on March 04, 2012, 12:25:11 AM
Can't believe I'm saying this really, but how about the energy at VanNoord tonight? Only 864 in attendance, but holy cow, it got loud and electric for the last 12 or so minutes of the game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ziggy on March 04, 2012, 12:47:48 PM
Chicago has been announced as the sectional host. UW-Eau Claire took a brief lead with under two minutes to go last night but Chicago pulled it out by four.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Happy Calvin Guy on March 05, 2012, 10:21:26 AM
Time for payback on Chicago's home floor after what they did at Van Noord last year. 

In that game, Chicago came out very physical and aggressive, and by the time Calvin knew what hit them, we were facing a significant deficit.  If my memory serves me well, we outscored Chicago after the first 5 minutes of the game.  Besides most of our stars having an additional year of experience under their belt, I think two factors will lead to a Calvin victory this year over Chicago:

1.  We know the style of play of Chicago and won't be surprised by it.  We were able to adjust last year but it was too late.  I think Coach Ross will have the team prepared from the opening tip. 
2.  We have a tougher point guard this year in freshman Englehard.  To me, she is the key against Chicago.

Go Knights!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on March 05, 2012, 03:52:14 PM
I believe the only common opponent for Chicago and Calvin this year was St. Mary's.

Chicago played them once and won 70-60.

Calvin played them three times and won by scores of 80-54, 73-52, and 78-50.

Doesn't mean a lot, but something to look at.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on March 05, 2012, 05:19:11 PM
Quote from: wiz on March 05, 2012, 03:52:14 PM
I believe the only common opponent for Chicago and Calvin this year was St. Mary's.

Chicago played them once and won 70-60.

Calvin played them three times and won by scores of 80-54, 73-52, and 78-50.

Doesn't mean a lot, but something to look at.

Actually they have had 2 common opponents this year.  And first off let me say that I agree with you that this doesn't necessarily mean a lot, but I guess it gives us something to look at and talk about this week before the big game.

The two common opponents were St. Mary's and Olivet.

Chicago beat Olivet 80-36, while Calvin beat them 72-33 and 67-44.

You mentioned the St. Mary's scores above so I won't mention them again.  One thing I noticed from the box score of the Chicago / St. Mary's game was that Morgan Herrick did not play.  Looks like she missed a few games this year.

As for the game on Friday, I anticipate a great game.  Both teams have had tremendous seasons so far and both have a great chance of advancing far in the tournament.  It is a shame they had to meet in the Sweet 16, but they were going to meet at some point anyway.

I believe the Knights defense will be the key to winning the game.  They have played great defense all year and they will need to do the same on Friday night.  I expect it to be a loud crowd at Chicago with a big crowd for the home team.  Their gym is half the size of VNA but holds the sound in pretty well from what I have heard.  Calvin's scheduling has allowed them to play most of their games on the road as they played only 8 regular season home games.  This should help them on Friday.  The Knights know Chicago's style of play from the game last year and will be ready for it this time around. 

I like Calvin's chances in this game and think they will win a close one.  Should be fun, can't wait!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: martin on March 05, 2012, 07:47:36 PM
All ten starters for both teams from last year are back - the difference is that freshman Kayla Engelhard starts in place of Logan Marsh for Calvin.  Chicago's bench has changed.  The Chicago starting five is a known force.  The Maroons have five players off the bench who average ten minutes or more.  Maggie Ely is a transfer from NYU who has fit in better with the team as the season progressed.  Julie Muguira spent her freshman year at Penn.  She did not play hoops at Penn, decided she missed the game and transferred to Chicago.  She gives Chicago a potent backup to point guard Joann Torres.  Two freshmen, Hannah Ballard and Morgan Donovan,  and a sophomore, Christianne Murray, round out the second unit. 

To me, the big difference between Calvin and Chicago is that Calvin has a superstar in Carissa Verkaik.  Chicago is more balanced.  Verkaik has led Calvin in scoring in 22 of 28 games.  Chicago's leading scorer, Taylor Simpson, averages 12.6 ppg and has led the Maroons in scoring in 12 of 27 games.  Chicago has had seven different leading scorers this season.  Last year, Verkaik had 23 points and 17 rebounds in 36 minutes.  Chicago absorbed her monster game and won.

For those of you travelling to Hyde Park for the game, the campus will be a bit quiet.  Chicago is on quarters and final exams start on Monday.  There will probably be more students in Regenstein Library than at the Ratner Center.

A few things to know - the University of Chicago "C" is indeed that of the UofC.  They did not steal it from the Bears.  The Bears took the wishbone "C" from UofC and their colors (orange and blue) from the University of Illinois.  At one time, the NFL was not a big deal, an afterthought in the American sports scene.  George Halas tried to boost the popularity of the Chicago Bears by attaching the team to college football. 

The University of Chicago was at one time a big deal in college football.  A founding member of the Big Ten.  You can see the first ever Heisman Trophy (awarded to Jay Berwanger) on display at the Ratner Center.  The coolest thing to see at the Ratner Center is the ball used in a 1909 basketball game with Indiana, which Chicago won 18-12.  Astronaut and Chicago alumnus John Grunsfeld took it with him on the space shuttle Atlantis on the last Hubble telescope repair mission (http://news.uchicago.edu/article/2009/05/20/astronaut-shoots-hubble-basketball-orbit).  The space telescope is named after Chicago alumnus and Nobel laureate Edwin Hubble.  Hubble was a great athlete.  He was a starting forward on a team which won three Big Ten titles and two or three mythical National Championships.  Two of his teammates, Pat Page and John Schommer, are in the basketball Hall of Fame.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on March 08, 2012, 12:00:48 PM
Big, big game Friday night between University of Chicago and Calvin College.  I would not be surprised to see the winner of this matchup run the table to a D3 championship.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope52 on March 08, 2012, 05:05:10 PM
good  luck  lady knights  fri 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on March 08, 2012, 08:48:52 PM
Just had a Pat Coleman sighting at the U of Chicago
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on March 08, 2012, 09:12:32 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on March 08, 2012, 08:48:52 PM
Just had a Pat Coleman siting at the U of Chicago

Pat probably can't even sleep tonight knowing that tomorrow he will be able to see, in action, Carissa Verkaik and company.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on March 08, 2012, 09:16:34 PM
Some reading material before the game begins.
http://www.mlive.com/smallcolleges/grandrapids/index.ssf/2012/03/calvins_carissa_verkaik_will_g.html (http://www.mlive.com/smallcolleges/grandrapids/index.ssf/2012/03/calvins_carissa_verkaik_will_g.html)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 08, 2012, 09:42:54 PM
I'm fascinated by the career of Carissa Verkaik.  Does anyone know if she has any interest in the WNBA, and whether she has any realistic chance at it if so?  And if so, would she be the first d3 player to play?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on March 08, 2012, 09:57:53 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 08, 2012, 09:42:54 PM
I'm fascinated by the career of Carissa Verkaik.  Does anyone know if she has any interest in the WNBA, and whether she has any realistic chance at it if so?  And if so, would she be the first d3 player to play?

I'm sure she has more purposeful things she would like to accomplish than that.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on March 08, 2012, 11:50:45 PM
Quote from: wiz on March 08, 2012, 09:57:53 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 08, 2012, 09:42:54 PM
I'm fascinated by the career of Carissa Verkaik.  Does anyone know if she has any interest in the WNBA, and whether she has any realistic chance at it if so?  And if so, would she be the first d3 player to play?

I'm sure she has more purposeful things she would like to accomplish than that.

Carissa has plans to be an elementary school teacher when she graduates.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Happy Calvin Guy on March 09, 2012, 09:45:01 AM
Quote from: wiz on March 08, 2012, 09:57:53 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 08, 2012, 09:42:54 PM
I'm fascinated by the career of Carissa Verkaik.  Does anyone know if she has any interest in the WNBA, and whether she has any realistic chance at it if so?  And if so, would she be the first d3 player to play?

I'm sure she has more purposeful things she would like to accomplish than that.

I agree 100%, wiz.  But since the question was asked, I would say that Carissa would need to add significant strength and speed/quickness to compete at that level.  Skill-wise, I think she could at least enter the discussion. 

Go Knights tonight, huge game!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on March 09, 2012, 04:36:58 PM
Three-time All-American Allison Coleman (Eastern Connecticut State) got a look from the WNBA, as I recall. Melissa Beyrutti of Kean was at least on the radar enough for an WNBA scout to comment on her potential to the New York Times.

It's very hard for someone from this level to break into that one.  That's a whole different level of size and strength.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on March 09, 2012, 09:00:40 PM
Cannot pickup Chicago/Calvin video?  Is it not compatible with Mac devices?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2012, 09:47:44 PM
Wiz:  No problem with the video on Micro. 
Calvin up 30-20.  Looks like Calvin remembers what happened last year at the VNA.
The video I am watching is well done.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on March 09, 2012, 09:58:52 PM
Quote from: realist on March 09, 2012, 09:47:44 PM
Wiz:  No problem with the video on Micro. 
Calvin up 30-20.  Looks like Calvin remembers what happened last year at the VNA.
The video I am watching is well done.
Thanks.  Left pc home and only have iPhone this weekend.  Have live stats and audio broadcast which will do.  Next week I will just go to Holland and watch them live.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2012, 10:36:37 PM
Amen: :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2012, 10:47:15 PM
Calvin 68 -50
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on March 09, 2012, 10:49:51 PM
Believe!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: calvinite on March 09, 2012, 10:55:37 PM
Who's up next? What's the scouting report. The broadcaster's tonight mentioned some upsets both at U. of Chicago and of top seeded, national teams. Looking good for the Knights. LOVE TO SEE THEM PLAY IN HOLLAND!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2012, 10:55:53 PM
Yes.  I felt so bad for the Calvin women last year, but they remembered, and weren't going to let that happen again.  Wow.  :)  What a team Chicago put on the floor.  No small feat to win one in the Windy City.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2012, 10:57:44 PM
Next up for Calvin is St. Thomas of MN.  Really strong program.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: calvinite on March 09, 2012, 11:02:13 PM
Great; they're 26-1 with their one and only loss coming the first game of the year against the tough UW - Stevens Point -- but, that's the same team Calvin beat last week. Neutral court -- probably edge to Calvin as we're closer to Chicago. They can do it!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2012, 11:14:41 PM
Calvin did a great job this evening.  I was so impressed, and so proud, however, that means litttle once the tip off happens tomorrow.  Calvin will have to duplicate tonights effort to prevail on Sat.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 09, 2012, 11:18:41 PM
Quote from: realist on March 09, 2012, 11:14:41 PM
Calvin did a great job this evening.  I was so impressed, and so proud, however, that means litttle once the tip off happens tomorrow.  Calvin will have to duplicate tonights effort to prevail on Sat.

Calvin's already defeated #2 and #11 in this tournament. #12 should be no sweat.  :) 8-)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on March 10, 2012, 01:48:21 AM
Great win by the Knights tonight! Their defense really gave Chicago fits. Some of the best defense they have played all year. Everyone came to play tonight.

Amazing Calvin crowd tonight! Filled half of the gym tonight.

Big game tomorrow, let's go Knights!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 10, 2012, 05:39:51 AM
As a Hope fan I can say - congratulations Calvin!  Great win for the Knights.  Good luck going forward, we're pulling for you to go all the way and represent the MIAA.

It does open the wound just a little about Hope not being included in the field.... :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: goodknight on March 10, 2012, 09:11:32 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 10, 2012, 05:39:51 AM
As a Hope fan I can say - congratulations Calvin!  Great win for the Knights.  Good luck going forward, we're pulling for you to go all the way and represent the MIAA.

It does open the wound just a little about Hope not being included in the field.... :)

Thanks for the note of encouragement, R999.

I also hear you on the non-inclusion piece. There have been a few times I've felt the same way when Calvin's team fell on the wrong side of the bubble, even though they, too, belonged in the field of national tourney contenders.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 10, 2012, 09:42:34 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 10, 2012, 05:39:51 AM
As a Hope fan I can say - congratulations Calvin!  Great win for the Knights.  Good luck going forward, we're pulling for you to go all the way and represent the MIAA.

It does open the wound just a little about Hope not being included in the field.... :)

When John Ross was on Hoopsville with Dave McHugh a couple of weeks ago, Coach Ross mentioned that he had no doubt that Hope was a top 20 team and probably a top 10 team. He also correctly predicted--given the metrics of determining Pool C bids--that Hope would probably not make the field of 64.

This past week Ross was interviewed on local television (I believe Channel 8), and said that after Hope beat Calvin, Brian Morehouse mentioned to him that Calvin's loss was the best thing that could happen to the Lady Knights because it took off the table the added pressure of fulfilling an undefeated season. Ross agreed with that assessment.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 10, 2012, 11:29:31 AM
Similarly, after the first Hope loss to Calvin back in January, Morehouse was quoted in the Grand Rapids Press as saying of Calvin "That's a No. 1 or No. 2 team in the nation."  I guess both coaches know a thing or two...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 11, 2012, 12:21:23 AM
I only watched the last couple minutes of regulation and the OT, but I'm going to bet Coach Ross would like a do over on his timeout with 5 seconds left in regulation and Calvin on what looked like a 3-1 break. :-\

Anyway, great season for the Knights and represented the MIAA well in the tournament.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on March 11, 2012, 08:04:59 AM
Quote from: sac on March 11, 2012, 12:21:23 AM
I only watched the last couple minutes of regulation and the OT, but I'm going to bet Coach Ross would like a do over on his timeout with 5 seconds left in regulation and Calvin on what looked like a 3-1 break. :-\

Anyway, great season for the Knights and represented the MIAA well in the tournament.

I saw about the same amount of the game you did and had the same reaction when the time out was called. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Knight2Day on March 11, 2012, 11:54:00 AM
Quote from: almcguirejr on March 11, 2012, 08:04:59 AM
Quote from: sac on March 11, 2012, 12:21:23 AM
I only watched the last couple minutes of regulation and the OT, but I'm going to bet Coach Ross would like a do over on his timeout with 5 seconds left in regulation and Calvin on what looked like a 3-1 break. :-\

Anyway, great season for the Knights and represented the MIAA well in the tournament.

I saw about the same amount of the game you did and had the same reaction when the time out was called.

Was at the game and there was a collective "NOOOOOOOO!" from the crowd when Ross called the timeout...Calvin shouldn't have put themselves in that position to begin with, their first half was absolutely atrocious, 16 turnovers....
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 11, 2012, 12:30:37 PM
Watching that play I could only imagine that Coach Ross was calling the timeout before the fast break opportunity to win the game developed--it's surely not a call he would have initiated at the moment the whistle blew.

We can second guess coaching decisions (as I've mentally done regarding the end of regulation play in the Hope-IWU game), and that's part of being a fan, as we replay games with the benefit of hindsight.  Even so, I tip my hat to both Coach Neil and Coach Ross for their impressive coaching successes this year, for the play and character of their teams, and for how exceedingly well they and their teams have represented their institutions.

That said, both teams suffered very painful losses in games they should have won . . . especially now that IWU and St. Thomas progress to seemingly winnable semi-final games.  We can feel one another's pain, even while celebrating great years.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 11, 2012, 12:40:45 PM
Quote from: Knight2Day on March 11, 2012, 11:54:00 AM
Quote from: almcguirejr on March 11, 2012, 08:04:59 AM
Quote from: sac on March 11, 2012, 12:21:23 AM
I only watched the last couple minutes of regulation and the OT, but I'm going to bet Coach Ross would like a do over on his timeout with 5 seconds left in regulation and Calvin on what looked like a 3-1 break. :-\

Anyway, great season for the Knights and represented the MIAA well in the tournament.

I saw about the same amount of the game you did and had the same reaction when the time out was called.
...Calvin shouldn't have put themselves in that position to begin with, their first half was absolutely atrocious, 16 turnovers....

Agree with that one.  It was hard to watch the guards dribble into the sideline trap time after time in the first half.  An earlier adjustment would have helped a lot.  But give credit to St. Thomas, they had a very good defensive scheme that gave Calvin a ton of trouble.

That said, I'm sure its tough for the girls right now but I hope that soon they can reflect back and be proud of a fabulous season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on March 11, 2012, 06:11:08 PM
Congratulations to John Ross and the Lady Knights on another very successful season.  Special thanks to seniors Courtney, Jill and Leah.  You have provided a lot of fun entertainment to Calvin basketball fans and have been truly great ambassadors for Calvin College.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on March 11, 2012, 08:19:15 PM
The Amherst/Geroge Fox game will be a great one.  I suspect the winner will also win over St. Thomas on Saturday for the national championship.  My pick is George Fox.  But, we'll have to wait to find out and, hey, it's the final four and anything could happen.  That's what makes it so much fun.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 12, 2012, 04:04:34 PM
Congrats to CV for being the Great Lakes region POY.
She is 24 points away from being Calvin's all time leading scorer.  Her name appears time after time in the "all time" records sections of both Calvin, and the MIAA.
Thankfully she has one year left, and by the time it is over her name will appear even more often.  Hopefully they can build on last year, and this year to make another strong run next year.  She also should be Calvin's first female bball player to start/win 100 + games.  Lisa Winkle made 99. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 12, 2012, 07:16:44 PM
Hope is going to play George Fox in a regular season game next year.  Unfortunately there was no clue to its location or date. :-\


quoting the Hope women's facebook page
If you can't wait till next season, you can come watch a common opponent that we will be playing next year. George Fox out of Oregon will be playing this weekend as we host the Final Four. Come check them out!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 13, 2012, 03:13:04 PM
This oddity was passed on to me about Calvin's Kelsey Irwin.

Calvin junior Kelsey Irwin was 53-for-129 from behind the 3-point arc. Overall, she was 53-of-135 ... Therefore, all of her made baskets were 3-pointers and she only took 6 shots from inside the arc ... Furthermore, Irwin also did not attempt any free throws so ALL of her scoring was 3-point baskets

http://miaa.org/wbb/stats/1112/calvinw.htm
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 13, 2012, 04:47:23 PM
Quote from: sac on March 13, 2012, 03:13:04 PM
This oddity was passed on to me about Calvin's Kelsey Irwin.

Calvin junior Kelsey Irwin was 53-for-129 from behind the 3-point arc. Overall, she was 53-of-135 ... Therefore, all of her made baskets were 3-pointers and she only took 6 shots from inside the arc ... Furthermore, Irwin also did not attempt any free throws so ALL of her scoring was 3-point baskets

http://miaa.org/wbb/stats/1112/calvinw.htm

Make me wonder if she was fouled, would she have just stood behind the 3-point line for her FTs :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on March 13, 2012, 07:29:57 PM
She also led the league with a .411 three point percentage.....better than most players two point percentage.  Hard to blame her!

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldtimer1937 on March 14, 2012, 07:29:51 PM
Whose blaming anyone?
had enough points to win! Defense wins championships
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on March 14, 2012, 11:36:12 PM
Indeed, and that is why Calvin won the MIAA Championship!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on March 16, 2012, 10:26:24 PM
George Fox and IWU advance to the finals.  I still see George Fox cutting down the nets on Saturday.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 16, 2012, 10:39:07 PM
Quote from: wiz on March 16, 2012, 10:26:24 PM
George Fox and IWU advance to the finals.  I still see George Fox cutting down the nets on Saturday.

Unfortunately, so do I.  But IWU knocked out GF in the Elite Eight last year, so I'm not surrendering quite yet! 8-)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 17, 2012, 10:40:03 AM
Further congrats are in order for CV.  She was named to the WBCA All American team, and was named one of the two finalist for POY honors.  The announcement will come in April at the Women's final four in Denver.

"Carissa Verkaik Named State Farm/WBCA All-American - Named Finalist for Player of the Year Award".

The young lady Munger from GF looked pretty impressive last night.  It would be nice to watch those two play next year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 17, 2012, 06:47:58 PM
Add a 1st team All American D3 Hoops to CV's list,
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 17, 2012, 07:48:53 PM
Munger out with the knee injury sure has changed things for GF.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on March 17, 2012, 09:04:29 PM
That's too bad.  She would have made the difference tonight.  GF played great especially having to adjust without her.

IW plays the same jump defense as St. Thomas.  That style seems to work, especially in DIII where the guards are smaller and can't get passes over the top.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on March 17, 2012, 10:33:12 PM
I just knew the Titans were going to win this thing! ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on March 19, 2012, 08:32:34 AM
Quote from: realist on March 17, 2012, 07:48:53 PM
Munger out with the knee injury sure has changed things for GF.

Did she get injured during the game on Saturday?  I too was there on Friday night - pretty impressive player.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Happy Calvin Guy on March 19, 2012, 08:45:21 AM
Quote from: realist on March 17, 2012, 06:47:58 PM
Add a 1st team All American D3 Hoops to CV's list,

CV is building quite the impressive CV.   :)

As the only junior on the 1st team all-American list, you'd have to think she is among the early favorites for national POY next year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 19, 2012, 10:08:22 AM
Quote from: gohope on March 19, 2012, 08:32:34 AM
Quote from: realist on March 17, 2012, 07:48:53 PM
Munger out with the knee injury sure has changed things for GF.

Did she get injured during the game on Saturday?  I too was there on Friday night - pretty impressive player.

Yes, As I recall it was about 5 minutes in.  She had scored about 4 points, several rebounds and blocks as well.  IWU really did not have an answer for her, and I doubt few teams would.  She finished the year with something like 120 blocks.  Not as mobile, and not the skill sets CV has.

FWIW.  CV is one of two POY candidates already this year. See post above WBCA.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on March 19, 2012, 10:57:11 AM
Quote from: realist on March 19, 2012, 10:08:22 AM
Quote from: gohope on March 19, 2012, 08:32:34 AM
Quote from: realist on March 17, 2012, 07:48:53 PM
Munger out with the knee injury sure has changed things for GF.

Did she get injured during the game on Saturday?  I too was there on Friday night - pretty impressive player.

Yes, As I recall it was about 5 minutes in.  She had scored about 4 points, several rebounds and blocks as well.  IWU really did not have an answer for her, and I doubt few teams would.  She finished the year with something like 120 blocks.  Not as mobile, and not the skill sets CV has.

FWIW.  CV is one of two POY candidates already this year. See post above WBCA.


Thanks Realist!

After just watching HM for one game, I would have given her the slight edge over CVK, heavy empahsis on slight, so I took a look at some stats from this past year:

                  HM                           CVK
GP               32                            30
MIN             26.9                          26.8
FGA             .565                          .568
Reb              316/avg 9.6               265/avg 8.8
FT               .563 (not on Fri!!  :))   .860
Blk               124                           128


WOW - They could'nt be more mirrored images in regards to similarities to their games!  Sure would have been fun to see them up against one another - maybe next year?????                   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 19, 2012, 04:31:19 PM
Quote from: gohope on March 19, 2012, 10:57:11 AM
Quote from: realist on March 19, 2012, 10:08:22 AM
Quote from: gohope on March 19, 2012, 08:32:34 AM
Quote from: realist on March 17, 2012, 07:48:53 PM
Munger out with the knee injury sure has changed things for GF.

Did she get injured during the game on Saturday?  I too was there on Friday night - pretty impressive player.

Yes, As I recall it was about 5 minutes in.  She had scored about 4 points, several rebounds and blocks as well.  IWU really did not have an answer for her, and I doubt few teams would.  She finished the year with something like 120 blocks.  Not as mobile, and not the skill sets CV has.

FWIW.  CV is one of two POY candidates already this year. See post above WBCA.


Thanks Realist!

After just watching HM for one game, I would have given her the slight edge over CVK, heavy empahsis on slight, so I took a look at some stats from this past year:

                  HM                           CVK
GP               32                            30
MIN             26.9                          26.8
FGA             .565                          .568
Reb              316/avg 9.6               265/avg 8.8
FT               .563 (not on Fri!!  :))   .860
Blk               124                           128


WOW - They could be mirrored images in regards to similarities to their games!  Sure would have been fun to see them up against one another - maybe next year?????                 

I did a similar comparison before my post, and decided not to post it.  Thanks for posting it.  I am biased toward CV.  From what I was able to learn about Munger she might be a tad weaker the farther she gets from the paint.

According to Pat C. CV was one of the finalist for the D3Hoops poy. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on March 20, 2012, 09:40:12 AM
Congrats to the Knights on finishing 5th in the D3hoops final poll!

http://d3hoops.com/top25/women/2011-12/final
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 20, 2012, 07:57:26 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on March 20, 2012, 09:40:12 AM
Congrats to the Knights on finishing 5th in the D3hoops final poll!

http://d3hoops.com/top25/women/2011-12/final

Agreed, excellent season.  As a Hope fan, we were pulling for you to go all the way.  The game against the Tommies was oh so close....

With CV back along with some other fine players, looks like the Knights will reload.  I'm hoping the Dutch can give you a run for your money.  Kussmaul didn't get to play against Calvin this year due to her ACL injury, but she was off to a very strong start in the post during the first 10 games.  If she can come back strong, Kust and Baumann back, and Llorens builds on her fine freshman season, the Dutch will have some serious inside depth and talent coming back.  Add outstanding guard Ellis and everyone else except Burnett and Cerone back and it seems like the Dutch are poised to step it up a couple notches next year.

A final shout out to the Dutch women for a fine 22-5 season.  I understand the weird NCAA regional selection process but admit some disappointment about the final polls.  Ranked 18 and 20 at the end of the regular season and the only team in the top 30 not to get a tournament bid.  2-2 during the regular season against tournament teams (1-2 Calvin and 1-0 Ithaca) that made nice showings in the tournament.  Yet the Dutch drop completely out of the WBCA rankings, absolutely no votes received... and not even mentioned with the other teams that dropped out from the prior poll.  It's like they never existed.  Dropped way down in the D3hoops poll too but at least they were mentioned with a few votes there.  I guess I don't understand the logic for the big drop.  At least Massey still had them in the top 25.  Nevertheless it was fun following them this year and best wishes to graudating seniors Allie Cerone and Maddie Burnett.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on March 20, 2012, 08:20:15 PM
Congratulations to Carissa Verkaik, D3 Player of the Year!
http://www.calvin.edu/sports/news/comments/carissa-verkaik-named-womens-diii-news-player-of-the-year/ (http://www.calvin.edu/sports/news/comments/carissa-verkaik-named-womens-diii-news-player-of-the-year/)

Well deserved.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldtimer1937 on March 21, 2012, 07:57:23 PM
My congrats to Calvin also on a great year.  The heart break of not getting to final four should be duller now and the great season with a final number five ranking should remain in your memories.

I have been a long time Calvin fan and watched and enjoyed for years.  I have watched the good teams and the not so good teams all with joy and a love of Calvin basketball.

I believe that Calvin with CV and returning cast should be strong.  I do feel that the two senior starters that Calvin lost will be sorely missed, though.  They were the best that I have seen in a long while in perimeter defense, unselfish offensive play and leadership.  And fun to watch.

Hopefully someone steps up but they will be hard to replace.

I also think Hope will come back strong.  They will provide great competition next year and should not be taken lightly.  It will be nice to have them back in the mix.  As long as we still beat them.

Hats off to John Ross again, coaching not only a successful team but a group of mature, sincere, competitive bball players who Calvin should be proud to call their own.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on March 23, 2012, 12:38:25 AM
Agreed, these seniors were unselfish offensively.  Not sure that can easily be taught to the younger players.  Point guard play will be crucial and the willingness to distribute the ball will be a key.  I think everyone gets a little better and Calvin makes another run.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 26, 2012, 02:03:44 PM
Nice season wrap-up article in the Holland Sentinel about the Hope women....

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/sports/sports_hope/x1631644954/Dan-DAddona-Hope-College-womens-basketball-team-had-strong-but-disappointing-season?zc_p=0
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on April 02, 2012, 05:36:53 PM
Trine has a new coach

http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2012/04/former-nba-player-to-coach-trine-women
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on April 03, 2012, 02:00:31 PM
Quote from: sac on April 02, 2012, 05:36:53 PM
Trine has a new coach

http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2012/04/former-nba-player-to-coach-trine-women

This will be interesting to watch.  Seems like a rather large horse to pull the Thunder wagon. :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on April 18, 2012, 04:08:39 PM
Not D3 but Pat Summitt stepped down as head coach at Tennessee today.  What a magnificent career and a sporting icon.  Every women who's ever played college basketball probably owes a little gratitude to coach Summitt.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on April 26, 2012, 05:40:33 PM
Calvin's 2012-2013 schedule update:

Nov. 16 - vs St. Thomas - (at Millikin) - #3 final poll
Nov. 17 - vs Stevens Point - (at Millikin) - #12 final poll

Nov. 23 - vs Centre (at Thomas More) - #13 final poll
Nov. 24 - at Thomas More - #24 final poll

All of these games will be against teams that finished in the top 25 d3hoops poll to finish the season last year.  The most interesting is the opening weekend for the Knights as they will begin their season with the team that knocked them out of the Elite Eight in overtime, St. Thomas.  And then come back the next night and play against Stevens Point who the Knights beat in the second round.  Centre knocked out Wash U this past year in the tournament and Thomas More was knocked out in the second round.  All tough opponents.  4 out of the first 5 games for the Knights look to be tough tests.  It is looking like the Knights are putting together a schedule similar to that of Illinois Wesleyan this year, meaning the first part of the season will be brutal and hopefully get them prepared for the tournament.


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on April 26, 2012, 07:19:41 PM
Brian Morehouse was named the BCAM women's college coach of the year today.

pdf file
http://www.bcam.org/images/stories/AwardsDocuments/CollegeCOY/12collegecoy.pdf
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on April 27, 2012, 04:39:18 PM
Quote from: sac on April 26, 2012, 07:19:41 PM
Brian Morehouse was named the BCAM women's college coach of the year today.

pdf file
http://www.bcam.org/images/stories/AwardsDocuments/CollegeCOY/12collegecoy.pdf

Somewhat odd to have a "down year" and win coach of the year.  :-\
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on April 27, 2012, 05:13:00 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on April 27, 2012, 04:39:18 PM
Quote from: sac on April 26, 2012, 07:19:41 PM
Brian Morehouse was named the BCAM women's college coach of the year today.

pdf file
http://www.bcam.org/images/stories/AwardsDocuments/CollegeCOY/12collegecoy.pdf

Somewhat odd to have a "down year" and win coach of the year.  :-\

Hope was in a rebuilding year, having lost a ton of talent to graduation.  Then they had season ending injuries to Kussmaul, who arguably started the year playing like the 2nd best post in the league, and two others from the rotation. I'm not sure 22-5, top 20 most of the year, is much of a down year but in any case I think you could argue Morehouse did one of his best coaching jobs this year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on April 28, 2012, 05:15:57 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on April 27, 2012, 05:13:00 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on April 27, 2012, 04:39:18 PM
Quote from: sac on April 26, 2012, 07:19:41 PM
Brian Morehouse was named the BCAM women's college coach of the year today.

pdf file
http://www.bcam.org/images/stories/AwardsDocuments/CollegeCOY/12collegecoy.pdf

Somewhat odd to have a "down year" and win coach of the year.  :-\

Hope was in a rebuilding year, having lost a ton of talent to graduation.  Then they had season ending injuries to Kussmaul, who arguably started the year playing like the 2nd best post in the league, and two others from the rotation. I'm not sure 22-5, top 20 most of the year, is much of a down year but in any case I think you could argue Morehouse did one of his best coaching jobs this year.

Some good points, and it looks like the voters felt that way as well.

What I meant by down year was that it was a down year by Hope's standards from recent success.  Not a bad year though.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on May 02, 2012, 02:08:02 PM
A couple MIAA women made the BCAM academic team

Patricia Rewa, Albion
Carissa Verkaik, Calvin

http://www.bcam.org/awards/college-player/119-collegenacademicnteams
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on May 17, 2012, 04:49:08 PM
Hope's 2012-13 schedule    http://www.hope.edu/athletics/wbb/


I count 3 men/women double headers.   Dec 29, Jan 23, Feb 9 (men play Calvin that afternoon)

2 in-region games for certain (OWU, Defiance), most likely will get one or two at Wilmington.  Then I have no idea who will be at Hope's two tournaments.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on May 22, 2012, 07:32:54 PM
Hoopsville's interview with Jim Dutcher on the men's championship game being moved to Atlanta, in it they talk briefly about plans to do the same for the women in the future.

http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2012/05/dutcher-interview-2013-title-game


Here's the future Final Four sites for the D1 women's final fours.  Obviously its unlikely the NCAA makes a decision between now and next year to host the D3 final in New Orleans, so that's probably out......and its in Holland anyway, why move? :)

Year      City               Site--Host
2013     New Orleans    New Orleans Arena--Univ. of New Orleans
2014     Nashville     Bridgestone Arena--Ohio Valley Conference
2015       Tampa Bay     St. Pete Times Forum--Univ. of South Florida
2016     Indianapolis     Lucas Oil Stadium--Butler Univ., IUPUI, Horizon League

Nashville's Bridgestone Arena is a traditional 20,000 seat arena unlike the dome's the men have been using.  So either they share the court across all 3 divisions or they use a secondary site like the men. Nashville is home to Vanderbilt University so the D2 and D3 games could go to Memorial Gymnasium.  I'm not aware of any other 'arena' type venues in Nashville, but then I've been there only once. 

Tampa Bay's Forum is also a traditional arena, so either share time or find a secondary site.  I know of no other site's in Tampa Bay.

The Indianapolis final is interesting....for one its the home of the NCAA (and the mythical home of basketball), but also its the first time the women will be playing in a larger than 'arena' sized structure in the cavernous Lucas Oil Stadium.  Banker's Life Fieldhouse is the local arena and would give the NCAA a set-up similar to Atlanta.  So maybe here.

One more thing to note, 2011 was the 30th anniversary of the D1 Championship so they've missed that milestone.  No other nice pretty number exists to celebrate until 2016 with the 35th anniversary.  However 2014 would be the 45th anniversary if they included the AIAW years, so maybe then.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sflzman on May 25, 2012, 11:25:25 AM
D2 University of Tampa has an arena that holds 3,432...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on May 30, 2012, 02:40:15 PM
Just read that the Hope women had a cumulative 3.63 GPA last year, the highest GPA in Coach Morehouse's tenure.  Fabulous job, this is a great example of the beauty of D3 athletics.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on June 08, 2012, 04:56:45 PM
Whoohooo!!!

http://www.mlive.com/smallcolleges/grandrapids/index.ssf/2012/06/hope_women_basketball_tops_nca.html#incart_river_default
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on June 08, 2012, 07:34:52 PM
Quote from: gohope on June 08, 2012, 04:56:45 PM
Whoohooo!!!

http://www.mlive.com/smallcolleges/grandrapids/index.ssf/2012/06/hope_women_basketball_tops_nca.html#incart_river_default
Raise the banner!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on June 13, 2012, 09:14:12 AM
Rosters are out for the June 20 women's Champion's of Character game at Cornerstone including 4 former MIAA players:

http://www.mlive.com/sports/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2012/06/meet_the_2012_champions_of_cha.html
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on July 03, 2012, 11:40:16 AM
Women's schedules

Adrian:  http://www.adrianbulldogs.com/sports/w-baskbl/2012-13/schedule
Albion:
Alma:
Calvin:  http://www.calvin.edu/sports/womens/basketball/schedule.htm
Hope:  http://www.hope.edu/athletics/wbb/
Kalamazoo:  http://www.kzoo.edu/sports/wb/wb12-13/wbschd12-13.html
Olivet:
Trine: 
St. Mary's:


A note on Hope's schedule, the Dec 14/15 post exam jam will feature Centre, Ky and George Fox in a classic format with Kzoo.  For some reason I have to learn this by looking at Kalamazoo's schedule. ???
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on July 03, 2012, 12:00:44 PM
Thanks for posting Sac.

Calvin also plays Centre down at Thomas More over Thanksgiving.  They finished #13 in the final poll last year.

It will also be interesting to see what George Fox looks like after losing in the championship game last year.  I wonder if Hannah Munger will be ready to go yet off of her ACL surgery.  Should be a good tournament at Hope.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on July 03, 2012, 01:37:54 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on July 03, 2012, 12:00:44 PM
Thanks for posting Sac.

Calvin also plays Centre down at Thomas More over Thanksgiving.  They finished #13 in the final poll last year.

It will also be interesting to see what George Fox looks like after losing in the championship game last year.  I wonder if Hannah Munger will be ready to go yet off of her ACL surgery.  Should be a good tournament at Hope.

Hope's starting center Meredith Kussmaul, who was playing very well the first 10 games last year, will also be coming off ACL surgery.  She went down much earlier in the season than Munger so will have had 2-3 months extra recovery time.  Regardless, I agree that it looks to be a high quality tournament.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on July 04, 2012, 06:28:45 PM
I haven't heard much on new players coming into Hope......Calvin has the third Verkaik coming in as a freshman.....good bloodlines!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on July 05, 2012, 09:55:41 AM
Quote from: Calvinhoops on July 04, 2012, 06:28:45 PM
I haven't heard much on new players coming into Hope......Calvin has the third Verkaik coming in as a freshman.....good bloodlines!

Good bloodlines indeed!

Haven't heard any specifics about Hope's incoming class, just that they have decent numbers.  Only two seniors graduated and returning two 1st team all-league players, so there will undoubtedly be a lot of competition for spots and playing time.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on July 05, 2012, 04:37:21 PM
Adding Olivet's schedule:   http://www.olivetcomets.com/sports/wbkb/2012-13/schedule


Women's schedules

Adrian:  http://www.adrianbulldogs.com/sports/w-baskbl/2012-13/schedule
Albion:
Alma:
Calvin:  http://www.calvin.edu/sports/womens/basketball/schedule.htm
Hope:  http://www.hope.edu/athletics/wbb/
Kalamazoo:  http://www.kzoo.edu/sports/wb/wb12-13/wbschd12-13.html
Olivet:  http://www.olivetcomets.com/sports/wbkb/2012-13/schedule
Trine: 
St. Mary's:
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: calvinhoops2012 on July 12, 2012, 07:01:22 AM
Has anyone heard about Calvin's incoming freshman?  I believe they lost two senior starters and one who played quite a bit.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on July 12, 2012, 09:04:54 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on July 05, 2012, 09:55:41 AM
Quote from: Calvinhoops on July 04, 2012, 06:28:45 PM
I haven't heard much on new players coming into Hope......Calvin has the third Verkaik coming in as a freshman.....good bloodlines!

Good bloodlines indeed!

Haven't heard any specifics about Hope's incoming class, just that they have decent numbers.  Only two seniors graduated and returning two 1st team all-league players, so there will undoubtedly be a lot of competition for spots and playing time.
WOTS  Ms. B Berry who was on Hope's team as a fr. in 2010-2011 will reportedly give bball another shot this fall.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on July 13, 2012, 01:34:52 PM
Quote from: realist on July 12, 2012, 09:04:54 AM
WOTS  Ms. B Berry who was on Hope's team as a fr. in 2010-2011 will reportedly give bball another shot this fall.

She has been playing on Hope's summer league team at the Courthouse
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on July 13, 2012, 03:44:55 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on July 13, 2012, 01:34:52 PM
Quote from: realist on July 12, 2012, 09:04:54 AM
WOTS  Ms. B Berry who was on Hope's team as a fr. in 2010-2011 will reportedly give bball another shot this fall.

She has been playing on Hope's summer league team at the Courthouse

And apparently played on a team of Hope girls that won their court at the Macker tournament in Ludington.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: calvinhoops2012 on July 17, 2012, 07:06:14 AM
Did Calvin pick up anyone besides the Verkaik girl?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on July 17, 2012, 11:05:02 AM
Quote from: calvinhoops2012 on July 17, 2012, 07:06:14 AM
Did Calvin pick up anyone besides the Verkaik girl?

Yes there are some other new freshman coming in as well.  Not sure where they fall varsity / JV wise though.  Still a lot of time before the season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on July 17, 2012, 02:39:59 PM
Congratulations to the Hope women for finishing with the 3rd highest team GPA in NCAA DIII women's basketball.  MIAA had 3 teams in the top 25, including Calvin and St. Mary's.

http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2012/07/northland-women-tops-in-classroom
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: calvinhoops2012 on July 18, 2012, 08:24:28 AM
Yes Congrats to Hope at #3 and to Calvin at #11.  It is an outstanding feat considering the quality of the education and the difficulty of the schools, especially Calvin.
Kudos to the girls who do it for the love of the game!!!!!! :) :) :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on July 18, 2012, 08:42:33 AM
Quote from: calvinhoops2012 on July 18, 2012, 08:24:28 AM
Yes Congrats to Hope at #3 and to Calvin at #11.  It is an outstanding feat considering the quality of the education and the difficulty of the schools, especially Calvin.
Kudos to the girls who do it for the love of the game!!!!!! :) :) :)

Not sure why you would say "especially Calvin"?  Hope and Calvin are virtually indentical according to Princeton Review in admissions selectivity, ACT and SAT scores, GPA, class rank, etc.. 

But yes, love the D3 scholar-athlete focus!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on July 18, 2012, 04:23:04 PM
Just wish the WBCA could figure out that Calvin made the tournament  ::)

http://www.wbca.org/blog/index.cfm/2012/7/17/Green-Bay-Drury-Northland-Northwestern-Salt-Lake-sit-atop-2012-WBCA-Academic-Team-Honor-Rolls/
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on July 18, 2012, 04:53:55 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on July 18, 2012, 04:23:04 PM
Just wish the WBCA could figure out that Calvin made the tournament  ::)

http://www.wbca.org/blog/index.cfm/2012/7/17/Green-Bay-Drury-Northland-Northwestern-Salt-Lake-sit-atop-2012-WBCA-Academic-Team-Honor-Rolls/

Guess those RCA girls are studying hard:

3.657  Northwestern IA (#1 - NAIA) - also won the National Championship (my alma mater)
3.620  Hope (#3 - DIII)
3.463  Central IA (#20 - DIII)

3.580  AVERAGE
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on July 18, 2012, 05:21:09 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on July 18, 2012, 04:53:55 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on July 18, 2012, 04:23:04 PM
Just wish the WBCA could figure out that Calvin made the tournament  ::)

http://www.wbca.org/blog/index.cfm/2012/7/17/Green-Bay-Drury-Northland-Northwestern-Salt-Lake-sit-atop-2012-WBCA-Academic-Team-Honor-Rolls/

Guess those RCA girls are studying hard:

3.657  Northwestern IA (#1 - NAIA) - also won the National Championship (my alma mater)
3.620  Hope (#3 - DIII)
3.463  Central IA (#20 - DIII)

3.580  AVERAGE

its not as tough as CRC though  ::)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: calvinhoops2012 on July 23, 2012, 07:14:49 AM
Wow - what a great season for the Calvin's womens bball team.  Top five in D3 rankings for the sport and #11 academically.  Congrats and hope this next season goes as well for the ladies.
GO KINGHTS!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NCF on July 23, 2012, 08:17:48 AM
Those are some very impressive GPA's!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: calvinhoops2012 on July 24, 2012, 02:44:36 PM
Question for everyone.  How valuable is summer ball? 

I watched a few games and was unimpressed with most teams.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on July 24, 2012, 03:02:37 PM
IMHO it does a couple of things:

It keeps the players in shape and

It gives them a chance to work on their skills or on areas that need improvement, but it really comes down to what the player puts into it. 

Fact is that summer leagues are often quite "steetballish" so that can create some issues.  Plus I always worry about injuries, given that these games can be a bit rough from time to time.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on July 24, 2012, 04:30:11 PM
Quote from: calvinhoops2012 on July 24, 2012, 02:44:36 PM
Question for everyone.  How valuable is summer ball? 

I watched a few games and was unimpressed with most teams.

I think it really depends on the specifics of the situation.  I've seen some summer women's leagues that were great, other's weren't worth the time.  Actually the best summer skills development I've seen for some college women is open gym back in their old high school, playing with guys of all ages.

Agree with Dutch Fan though; keeping in shape and getting some shots up in a competitive situation is probably the greatest benefit.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: RogK on July 24, 2012, 06:42:03 PM
Summer leagues can be useful for the incoming freshmen for a few reasons that come to mind :
If they're playing with teammates from their college, there's the opportunity to gain some familiarity with what each other can do on the court and with teammates' personalities.
Freshman can also get used to playing on a 94 ft court, as opposed to the 84 ft high school court; also using the slightly longer (1 ft more) 3 point distance.
Freshman can begin to realize that their opponents in college are going to be larger and (very likely) better than what they faced in high school.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on July 24, 2012, 09:59:33 PM
It's great for freshmen to get to know some teammates and to keep returners in shape.  Other than that, some players are going to be jv players and most teams use split squads and that's why it looks sloppy.  I like that the girls have to play more read and react since most teams don't run plays.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: calvinhoops2012 on July 25, 2012, 07:14:44 AM
Great input everyone - keeps me from being worried about the upcoming year.   :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on July 25, 2012, 07:42:44 AM
One thing I can say for sure - there is very, very little if any correlation between how a team performs in summer league versus how they perform in season. I've watched men's summer leagues for years, and several of Hopes best teams looked pretty bad in the summer.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on July 25, 2012, 12:00:11 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on July 25, 2012, 07:42:44 AM
One thing I can say for sure - there is very, very little if any correlation between how a team performs in summer league versus how they perform in season. I've watched men's summer leagues for years, and several of Hopes best teams looked pretty bad in the summer.

Agreed.  Also, another thing to remember is that some schools have multiple teams in a summer league in order to get more playing time for their players.  Because of this you never know who is going to be playing on a team in a given night, so there is not much from a consistency perspective.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: calvinhoops2012 on July 26, 2012, 07:54:14 AM
Starting to get excited about the upcoming season, a little early I know.  Looking at some past and present Calvin stats and.....

CV is on track to break alot of records this year.  She could be tops on list in about every category.  Good for her and she deserves it.  She truly is an MVP for her team, league and D3.

Irwin is also on track to get in top 2 or 3 for total 3s made.

It looks like Thomas ended her career in the top 5 in made 3s, including one of the most important ones in Calvin womens bball history (sorry Hope fans).  Good for her.


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on July 26, 2012, 10:50:16 PM
Yes, Calvin has a lot to look forward to this year...the four seniors that came in together; Verkaik, Hilbrands, Wolffis and Irwin have had a great run and will give it one more shot...they will be missed.  Hope cannot be overlooked with Kussmaul returning and will be as good or better than last year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: calvinhoops2012 on July 27, 2012, 09:09:13 AM
I agree and it will be nice to see Kussmaul back. I know everyone felt pretty bad that she could not play the majority of the season.

And with Ellis, Kust, as seniors too, they will want to finish careers with a MIAA title and trip to tourney.

Take CV out of discussions cuz she is just extraordinary and Hope's seniors might be as good if not better than Calvin's.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on July 27, 2012, 09:40:56 AM
No doubt that Calvin is the league favorite based on CV and other returning players. 

Call me crazy but I think Hope could give them a tougher battle for the league title than last year.  It probably depends on how strong Kussmaul comes back and on the continuing development of a couple of the young players.  Ellis and Kust are returning 1st team all league and will no doubt be excellent.  Sophomore Llorens had a very nice year in the post as a frosh last year, winning a tourney MVP and a league player of the week.  Kelly finished the year especially strong and should fill minutes nicely for departed senior Cerone.  A surprise could be sophomore Doell, a 6'1" all court player who had a great game in the win over Calvin and was coming on strong when she was lost for the season with a broken arm.  6'1" senior Bauman adds more size and had the benefit of starting most of the year after Kussmaul went down.  Junior Overway is a solid all court player.

Some pieces have to come together, but if they do this group could make a strong run at Calvin.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on July 27, 2012, 10:54:31 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on July 27, 2012, 09:40:56 AM
No doubt that Calvin is the league favorite based on CV and other returning players. 

Call me crazy but I think Hope could give them a tougher battle for the league title than last year.  It probably depends on how strong Kussmaul comes back and on the continuing development of a couple of the young players.  Ellis and Kust are returning 1st team all league and will no doubt be excellent.  Sophomore Llorens had a very nice year in the post as a frosh last year, winning a tourney MVP and a league player of the week.  Kelly finished the year especially strong and should fill minutes nicely for departed senior Cerone.  A surprise could be sophomore Doell, a 6'1" all court player who had a great game in the win over Calvin and was coming on strong when she was lost for the season with a broken arm.  6'1" senior Bauman adds more size and had the benefit of starting most of the year after Kussmaul went down.  Junior Overway is a solid all court player.

Some pieces have to come together, but if they do this group could make a strong run at Calvin.

Add the potential of Berry being back - her three point shooting as a Fr for the 10-11 season was impressive. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on July 27, 2012, 11:50:53 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on July 27, 2012, 10:54:31 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on July 27, 2012, 09:40:56 AM
No doubt that Calvin is the league favorite based on CV and other returning players. 

Call me crazy but I think Hope could give them a tougher battle for the league title than last year.  It probably depends on how strong Kussmaul comes back and on the continuing development of a couple of the young players.  Ellis and Kust are returning 1st team all league and will no doubt be excellent.  Sophomore Llorens had a very nice year in the post as a frosh last year, winning a tourney MVP and a league player of the week.  Kelly finished the year especially strong and should fill minutes nicely for departed senior Cerone.  A surprise could be sophomore Doell, a 6'1" all court player who had a great game in the win over Calvin and was coming on strong when she was lost for the season with a broken arm.  6'1" senior Bauman adds more size and had the benefit of starting most of the year after Kussmaul went down.  Junior Overway is a solid all court player.

Some pieces have to come together, but if they do this group could make a strong run at Calvin.

Add the potential of Berry being back - her three point shooting as a Fr for the 10-11 season was impressive. 

Good point; I hear that she is a very good shooter.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on July 28, 2012, 10:13:34 AM
Ellis could be te best three point shooter in the conference too.....Hope will split the season series with Calvin and it will come down to the conference tourney again!  Calvin has a very challenging schedule that could bite them and they might NEED to win the conference tourney to get into the NCAAs.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on July 28, 2012, 03:46:14 PM
Quote from: Calvinhoops on July 28, 2012, 10:13:34 AM
Ellis could be te best three point shooter in the conference too.....Hope will split the season series with Calvin and it will come down to the conference tourney again!  Calvin has a very challenging schedule that could bite them and they might NEED to win the conference tourney to get into the NCAAs.

I think I'd give that to Irwin right now, but I wouldn't leave either of them open :)

Hope has a tough nonconference schedule too, including last year's #2 George Fox.  It would be a shame to think that one of these two fine teams would be left out of the tourney if they didn't win the league championship but it happened to Hope last year, top 20 all year but didn't make the 64 team tourney.  Very little margin for a slip given the way NCAA selects teams for the tourney...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on July 30, 2012, 08:46:03 AM
Shapping up to be another two team race - probably.  Anyone have any thoughts on the rest of the league?  Even if Hope & Calvin are the top, one of the other teams always seems to surprise one of the top teams.  Hope missed the NCAAs last year due to an inexplicable loss to Trine - IMHO.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on July 30, 2012, 09:47:38 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on July 30, 2012, 08:46:03 AM
Shapping up to be another two team race - probably.  Anyone have any thoughts on the rest of the league?  Even if Hope & Calvin are the top, one of the other teams always seems to surprise one of the top teams.  Hope missed the NCAAs last year due to an inexplicable loss to Trine - IMHO.

Agree that the Trine loss doomed Hope for NCAA.  Hope had a few MIAA squeakers and also a loss to Albion, while Calvin pretty much crushed everyone.

I do think it will be a two team race again; it was last year and both Calvin and Hope pretty much have more of their teams returning than anyone else. 

We don't really know anything about anyone's recruits, so an impact frosh somewhere could shake things up.  Of the rest of the league, I'm thinking Olivet could make a run for the top of the 2nd tier based on having everyone back and some "good losses" to tough teams last year.  Trine might also be there, they had a hot start last year and have a veteran team returning and new coach Steve Mix.  Adrian lost leading scorer Ross but have lots of balance returning.  Albion will be tough but may slip based on huge graduation losses of Rewa and Dennis.  St. Mary's was tough last year but graduated their top four scorers.  I'm less familiar with some of the others but if I had to pick now I'd say:

Calvin
Hope

Olivet
Adrian
Trine
Albion


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldtimer1937 on August 07, 2012, 01:38:44 PM
Seems like Adrian will be a good test for both teams this upcoming season.

Both teams barely won last year when playing at Adrian.  Hope won with an late Ellis three and Calvin won with a late Thomas steal.

Alot of the Adrian scoring and impact plays seemed to come from other players besides senior Ross.

It would be nice to see a third team in the mix.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldtimer1937 on August 11, 2012, 05:06:46 PM
thanks for the link to St. Mary's schedule.  They had a nice write up about last year's senior laden team.  It should be interesting to see what they come up with for this year's team.  This team was one to lose alot of talent with graduation.

Great coach though and great place to play, smart,. passionate fans.  Look forward to playing there.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on August 23, 2012, 07:49:06 AM
Great article by Mitch McCabe in DFP, I attached the link.  It is probably one of the best I have read and so true.

Please pass it along to those parents who might need it

http://www.usatodayhss.com/detroit/article/mick-mccabe-parents-need-to-be-realistic-about-college-prospects--2012308220078
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on August 28, 2012, 08:24:58 AM
School starts this week so 15 October is right around the corner!   :) :) :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on September 20, 2012, 11:08:13 PM
added Trine's schedule  (finally)    It was getting late in the day and I hadn't learned anything new today.  Thankfully Trine's schedule gave me St. Mary's-Of-The-Woods  College.  Also the name of the town near Terre Haute.  http://www.smwc.edu/athletics/basketball/   


Women's schedules

Adrian:  http://www.adrianbulldogs.com/sports/w-baskbl/2012-13/schedule
Albion:  http://www.albion.edu/sports/womens-sports/basketball/varsity-schedule/flat/date/2012-11-01
Alma:  http://goalmascots.com/sports/wbkb/2012-13/schedule
Calvin:  http://www.calvin.edu/sports/womens/basketball/schedule.htm
Hope:  http://www.hope.edu/athletics/wbb/
Kalamazoo:  http://www.kzoo.edu/sports/wb/wb12-13/wbschd12-13.html
Olivet:  http://olivetcomets.com/sports/wbkb/2012-13/schedule
Trine:   http://www.trine.edu/athletics/womens_sports/basketball/schedule/
St. Mary's:  http://www3.saintmarys.edu/basketball-schedule
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on September 27, 2012, 08:36:42 AM
My sources tell me that Hope is playing together and well this fall. 

It will be interesting to see how the new coach at Trine does.  Their vball team seems to be playing well not that there is any correlation but maybe means their are getting more athletes to come to the school.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on September 27, 2012, 08:58:28 AM
Quote from: bballforever on September 27, 2012, 08:36:42 AM
My sources tell me that Hope is playing together and well this fall. 

It will be interesting to see how the new coach at Trine does.  Their vball team seems to be playing well not that there is any correlation but maybe means their are getting more athletes to come to the school.

Any word on how Kussmaul is doing in her rehab from ACL surgery?  Hoping that she can play and enjoy her senior season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on October 09, 2012, 07:06:06 AM
Insiders say she is playing well. :) :) :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on October 09, 2012, 08:50:01 AM
Quote from: bballforever on October 09, 2012, 07:06:06 AM
Insiders say she is playing well. :) :) :)

Thanks.  Good for her, you never know how someone will come back from an ACL.  Just playing is great, playing well is a nice bonus.  Big plus for Hope if she is able to match last year's early season form.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on October 11, 2012, 08:43:30 AM
Practice starts next week, it seemed like a short summer and off season.  Games start in 4 weeks.  We can't wait to see what Calvin does in their first four.  Boy, tough matchups.  Hope, not so much but you never know until you actually get on the floor.
Trine plays Franklin early so we might have a better read on their team too.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on October 12, 2012, 05:10:51 PM
D3 News has Calvin ranked #1 in their preseason poll.  Hope is ranked #13.

As mentioned earlier, Calvin's first 2 weekends will be extremely tough.  D3 News thinks this as well as their first game is against #5 St. Thomas and then on Saturday they have #3 Stevens Point.  The next weekend they will play at #10 Thomas More and "others to watch" Centre.  All good tests for the Knights.

Also, Carissa Verkaik has been picked to repeat as Player of the Year for D3 News.

Can't wait for the season to start!  Go Knights!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on October 13, 2012, 10:34:18 AM
I couldnt find any preseason rankings on their website....where do you go to see this...thx
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on October 14, 2012, 08:16:36 PM
First women's article of the year from the Holland Sentinel

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/sports/sports_hope/x470404178/Meredith-Kussmaul-Hannah-Doell-happy-to-return-healthy-to-Hope-College-womens-basketball
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on October 15, 2012, 12:43:43 AM
Quote from: Calvinhoops on October 13, 2012, 10:34:18 AM
I couldnt find any preseason rankings on their website....where do you go to see this...thx

Their newsletter is sent out via email each issue.  Here is the link to the newsletter for the season preview:

D3 News season preview (http://gallery.mailchimp.com/2bc1f77ef4bb7b83f8004e126/files/WD3NOct12FINAL.pdf)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on October 15, 2012, 08:11:45 AM
Thanks for the link, we could not find the article either.

Wow, Calvin #1.  I know it does not mean anything at this point in the season, just a little added presuure though.  I think it is a bit different looking down rather than looking up  But the Knights have done it before.
Go Knoights and Carissa!!

Also, Hope in top 20.  Boads well for the MIAA. 
Should be a great season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on October 19, 2012, 04:17:37 PM
Hope's women's roster is up.

http://www.hope.edu/pr/athletics/wbb/wbbrost.html
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on October 19, 2012, 05:35:13 PM
Quote from: jspiii on October 19, 2012, 04:17:37 PM
Hope's women's roster is up.

http://www.hope.edu/pr/athletics/wbb/wbbrost.html

Not much to find on the Fr.

Autumn Anderson  --also plays softball

Maura McAfee -- Avg 13 pts,  10 rebounds in the Saginaw Valley League and named the league MVP.  I don't know if the SVL has the same reputation as the boys side.

Here's Maura making a jumpshot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YZYJk_jBTc&feature=relmfu
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on October 19, 2012, 07:34:41 PM
Missing from last year's Hope roster, Anna Kaufman & Katie Overway. Surprised on Overway, know she played summer ball. Is she injured?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on October 19, 2012, 07:43:56 PM
Quote from: jspiii on October 19, 2012, 07:34:41 PM
Missing from last year's Hope roster, Anna Kaufman & Katie Overway. Surprised on Overway, know she played summer ball. Is she injured?

Heard that she chose not to play this year; not injured.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on October 22, 2012, 08:55:11 AM
Agree on Overway, she was a good player, especially toward end of year
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on October 24, 2012, 04:11:43 PM
Calvin's women's roster is up. No surprises that I see but a third Verkaik (Kally) graces the roster.

http://www.calvin.edu/sports/womens/basketball/roster.htm
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 24, 2012, 05:28:25 PM
The D3hoops.com women's basketball preseason Top 25 is out:

http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2012/10/womens-preseason-top-25
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on October 25, 2012, 12:01:29 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 24, 2012, 05:28:25 PM
The D3hoops.com women's basketball preseason Top 25 is out:

http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2012/10/womens-preseason-top-25

Going back to 2002, its the first MIAA squad to have the pre-season #1. Hope was #2 two years ago with a couple other top 5's along the way.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldtimer1937 on October 25, 2012, 07:02:20 AM
lot of pressure comes with bulls eye on your back.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on October 25, 2012, 07:50:10 AM
I agree - a lot of pressure.  Everyone wants to beat #1, just ask Hope about that when they came into Calvin in 2010.  It's so tough being on top.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on October 25, 2012, 01:24:59 PM
Read also that Calvin is the only team to have a returning All American first teamer, that explains #1 ranking also.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on October 25, 2012, 02:54:20 PM
Quote from: oldtimer1937 on October 25, 2012, 07:02:20 AM
lot of pressure comes with bulls eye on your back.

Because teams really want to beat #1, but don't really care to beat #2-#25?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on October 25, 2012, 03:59:26 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on October 25, 2012, 02:54:20 PM
Quote from: oldtimer1937 on October 25, 2012, 07:02:20 AM
lot of pressure comes with bulls eye on your back.

Because teams really want to beat #1, but don't really care to beat #2-#25?

Who said that #1 was the only bullseye - but it does indeed come with the #1 ranking - and it's a bigger bullseye than any other.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on October 25, 2012, 04:47:25 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on October 25, 2012, 03:59:26 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on October 25, 2012, 02:54:20 PM
Quote from: oldtimer1937 on October 25, 2012, 07:02:20 AM
lot of pressure comes with bulls eye on your back.

Because teams really want to beat #1, but don't really care to beat #2-#25?

Who said that #1 was the only bullseye - but it does indeed come with the #1 ranking - and it's a bigger bullseye than any other.

Coach: "Okay team, we're up against the number one team in the country tonight, let's play at 100%!"
---
Coach: "Okay team, we're up against the number three team in the country tonight, let's play at 98%!"
---
Coach: "Okay team, we're up against the number 25 team in the country tonight, let's play at 79%!"
---
Coach: "Okay team, we're up against an unranked team tonight, let's play at 57%!"
---

The implication for "bullseyes" and "getting up for big games" is that teams otherwise dog it and don't play their best.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on October 25, 2012, 07:22:36 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on October 25, 2012, 04:47:25 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on October 25, 2012, 03:59:26 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on October 25, 2012, 02:54:20 PM
Quote from: oldtimer1937 on October 25, 2012, 07:02:20 AM
lot of pressure comes with bulls eye on your back.

I don't think anyone suggested that teams "dog it" against non-#1 teams.  But to suggest that opponents don't view a game against a #1 team slightly differently is to deny long-held sports lore and human nature.

Because teams really want to beat #1, but don't really care to beat #2-#25?

Who said that #1 was the only bullseye - but it does indeed come with the #1 ranking - and it's a bigger bullseye than any other.

Coach: "Okay team, we're up against the number one team in the country tonight, let's play at 100%!"
---
Coach: "Okay team, we're up against the number three team in the country tonight, let's play at 98%!"
---
Coach: "Okay team, we're up against the number 25 team in the country tonight, let's play at 79%!"
---
Coach: "Okay team, we're up against an unranked team tonight, let's play at 57%!"
---

The implication for "bullseyes" and "getting up for big games" is that teams otherwise dog it and don't play their best.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on October 26, 2012, 08:51:47 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on October 25, 2012, 04:47:25 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on October 25, 2012, 03:59:26 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on October 25, 2012, 02:54:20 PM
Quote from: oldtimer1937 on October 25, 2012, 07:02:20 AM
lot of pressure comes with bulls eye on your back.

Because teams really want to beat #1, but don't really care to beat #2-#25?

Who said that #1 was the only bullseye - but it does indeed come with the #1 ranking - and it's a bigger bullseye than any other.

Coach: "Okay team, we're up against the number one team in the country tonight, let's play at 100%!"
---
Coach: "Okay team, we're up against the number three team in the country tonight, let's play at 98%!"
---
Coach: "Okay team, we're up against the number 25 team in the country tonight, let's play at 79%!"
---
Coach: "Okay team, we're up against an unranked team tonight, let's play at 57%!"
---

The implication for "bullseyes" and "getting up for big games" is that teams otherwise dog it and don't play their best.

This is not a personal attack, but that response is simply ridiculous.  Have you ever been invovled in playing in a game against a highly ranked team?  Following your logic, a team playing in game 1 of the season approaches that game with the exact same intensity as they would a national championship game.  Throw all the stats you want at that one - humans are affected by emotions - and it does have an impact on performance.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on October 26, 2012, 09:10:54 AM
Well said Flying Dutch Fan.   :) :) :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on October 26, 2012, 10:18:43 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on October 26, 2012, 08:51:47 AM
This is not a personal attack, but that response is simply ridiculous.  Have you ever been invovled in playing in a game against a highly ranked team?  Following your logic, a team playing in game 1 of the season approaches that game with the exact same intensity as they would a national championship game.  Throw all the stats you want at that one - humans are affected by emotions - and it does have an impact on performance.

Fear not, I would never allow the words of a Hope supporter to harm me physically, mentally, or emotionally. :)

Let me clarify what I think your argument is by laying out the following scenarios:
---
This year’s Calvin and Albion teams play against each other in 100 independent games as #1 vs. unranked.

This year’s Calvin and Albion teams play against each other in 100 independent games as #15 vs. unranked.

This year’s Calvin and Albion teams play against each other in 100 independent games as unranked vs. unranked.
---
You’re suggesting that Calvin would have the best winning percentage when labeled as an unranked team, the second best win percentage when labeled as the #15 team, and the worst win percentage when labeled as the #1 team. Is that what you’re saying?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on October 26, 2012, 10:38:44 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on October 26, 2012, 10:18:43 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on October 26, 2012, 08:51:47 AM
This is not a personal attack, but that response is simply ridiculous.  Have you ever been invovled in playing in a game against a highly ranked team?  Following your logic, a team playing in game 1 of the season approaches that game with the exact same intensity as they would a national championship game.  Throw all the stats you want at that one - humans are affected by emotions - and it does have an impact on performance.

Let me clarify what I think your argument is by laying out the following scenarios:
---
This year's Calvin and Albion teams play against each other in 100 independent games as #1 vs. unranked.

This year's Calvin and Albion teams play against each other in 100 independent games as #15 vs. unranked.

This year's Calvin and Albion teams play against each other in 100 independent games as unranked vs. unranked.
---
You're suggesting that Calvin would have the best winning percentage when labeled as an unranked team, the second best win percentage when labeled as the #15 team, and the worst win percentage when labeled as the #1 team. Is that what you're saying?


Maybe, maybe not, your example is oversimplified and doesn't represent real world because there are other variables.  Some teams might be intimidated playing a #1 and concede more easily.  Others with more toughness and better coaching might play harder than they would playing an unranked team.  These are the teams that become a greater danger to the #1 ranked opponent, simply by virtue of the ranking.

But in any case, it is "different" playing a highly ranked team.  To think otherwise is to deny human nature and human emotions.

Have you ever played a team sport and played a top ranked team?  If so, it would be quite obvious to you, simply from the experience.  Do you think Calvin plays Hope just like they play any other team?  Or that the greater fan support that comes with a rivalry game or playing a top ranked opponent plays absolutely no role at all in the outcome? 

College women, or any athletes for that matter, are not robots that play every game in every situation exactly the same way.  Human beings respond to the situation.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on October 26, 2012, 11:05:05 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on October 26, 2012, 10:18:43 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on October 26, 2012, 08:51:47 AM
This is not a personal attack, but that response is simply ridiculous.  Have you ever been invovled in playing in a game against a highly ranked team?  Following your logic, a team playing in game 1 of the season approaches that game with the exact same intensity as they would a national championship game.  Throw all the stats you want at that one - humans are affected by emotions - and it does have an impact on performance.

Let me clarify what I think your argument is by laying out the following scenarios:
---
This year's Calvin and Albion teams play against each other in 100 independent games as #1 vs. unranked.

This year's Calvin and Albion teams play against each other in 100 independent games as #15 vs. unranked.

This year's Calvin and Albion teams play against each other in 100 independent games as unranked vs. unranked.
---
You're suggesting that Calvin would have the best winning percentage when labeled as an unranked team, the second best win percentage when labeled as the #15 team, and the worst win percentage when labeled as the #1 team. Is that what you're saying?

Nope - you missed it by a mile.

I'm not really saying anything about the outcome of those games - and I don't think the cliché of "a bullseye on their back" is either.  What I'm saying is that there is a different intensity, emotion, and hype when you play against the #1 team in the nation than if you play an average game.  Same as those things are very different when Hope plays Calvin versus when Hope plays anyone else.  Some players respond positively to this and their performance increases while others are distracted by it and their perfromance suffers.

Think about the days leading up to a game versus the #1 team.  The local media will most likely have articles or coverage prior to the match-up.  The unranked school's website / SID will undoubtedly hype it - partly to try to drive higher attendance.  People around campus will be talking about it.  Posting up rates will increase.  The potential upset carries even more coverage and recognition - even the front page of D3Hoops could be in play! 

All of this is not lost on the players.  They are very aware of it all, hence the reason coaches sometimes have to work hard to get them to stop focusing on it, and simply focus on the game.  There was a reason Norman Dale had his guys use a tape measure to confirm the height of the rim and the court dimensions.  The upcoming game was huge - but the game itself was the same.

Interestingly, the same struggle can actually exist for a team who recently became #1, and again the coach needs to get the focus back to the game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on October 26, 2012, 11:21:28 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on October 26, 2012, 11:05:05 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on October 26, 2012, 10:18:43 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on October 26, 2012, 08:51:47 AM
This is not a personal attack, but that response is simply ridiculous.  Have you ever been invovled in playing in a game against a highly ranked team?  Following your logic, a team playing in game 1 of the season approaches that game with the exact same intensity as they would a national championship game.  Throw all the stats you want at that one - humans are affected by emotions - and it does have an impact on performance.

Let me clarify what I think your argument is by laying out the following scenarios:
---
This year's Calvin and Albion teams play against each other in 100 independent games as #1 vs. unranked.

This year's Calvin and Albion teams play against each other in 100 independent games as #15 vs. unranked.

This year's Calvin and Albion teams play against each other in 100 independent games as unranked vs. unranked.
---
You're suggesting that Calvin would have the best winning percentage when labeled as an unranked team, the second best win percentage when labeled as the #15 team, and the worst win percentage when labeled as the #1 team. Is that what you're saying?

Nope - you missed it by a mile.

I'm not really saying anything about the outcome of those games - and I don't think the cliché of "a bullseye on their back" is either.  What I'm saying is that there is a different intensity, emotion, and hype when you play against the #1 team in the nation than if you play an average game.  Same as those things are very different when Hope plays Calvin versus when Hope plays anyone else.  Some players respond positively to this and their performance increases while others are distracted by it and their perfromance suffers.

Think about the days leading up to a game versus the #1 team.  The local media will most likely have articles or coverage prior to the match-up.  The unranked school's website / SID will undoubtedly hype it - partly to try to drive higher attendance.  People around campus will be talking about it.  Posting up rates will increase.  The potential upset carries even more coverage and recognition - even the front page of D3Hoops could be in play! 

All of this is not lost on the players.  They are very aware of it all, hence the reason coaches sometimes have to work hard to get them to stop focusing on it, and simply focus on the game.  There was a reason Norman Dale had his guys use a tape measure to confirm the height of the rim and the court dimensions.  The upcoming game was huge - but the game itself was the same.

Interestingly, the same struggle can actually exist for a team who recently became #1, and again the coach needs to get the focus back to the game.

So, going back to my examples, if we replace "Albion" with "a random assortment of unranked but non-terrible teams", we would expect to see Calvin come away with an indistinguishable win percentage in all three instances but perhaps a larger spread between their highs and lows when they're more highly ranked?

That is to say, if Calvin's labeled as an unranked team, then maybe they win their games by an average of 10 points with the high being +23 points and the low being -3 points. But when they're labeled as the #1 team in the country, they win their games by an average of 10 points with the high being +33 and the low being -13 (numbers invented for the sake of discussion).

More accurate?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on October 26, 2012, 11:39:17 AM
KS - stop trying to numerically or statistically describe this - it can't be done.  To do so would be like trying to numerically define the difference between:

a.  looking at your spouse on your wedding day as he/she says "I do"

and

b. looking at them leave their dirty underwear in the middle of the floor 

Just admit they are different experiences, and that as a human you will react differently to them and it will affect you.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on October 26, 2012, 12:25:55 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on October 26, 2012, 11:39:17 AM
they are different experiences, and that as a human you will react differently to them and it will affect you.

I agree with the above statement. People are not robots and will physically react differently to changing environments.

So, either the changed emotional state affects the outcome of games or it doesn't -- that's what I'm interested in. Outcomes of games.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on October 26, 2012, 12:53:13 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on October 26, 2012, 12:25:55 PM
So, either the changed emotional state affects the outcome of games or it doesn't

Agreed  ;D

Seriously though, how much affect it has is probably pretty hard to predict - just like when someone will go on a "hot streak" is hard to predict (yes, I actully went there). 

Thinking more about the #1 team bullseye - I think the inital affect of playing that #1 team may be more on the fan base.  More fans show-up, students are more involved, the place is a little more "electric" than usual.  Certainly the underdog team has to feed off that a little.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ziggy on October 26, 2012, 03:33:36 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on October 26, 2012, 12:53:13 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on October 26, 2012, 12:25:55 PM
So, either the changed emotional state affects the outcome of games or it doesn't

Agreed  ;D

Seriously though, how much affect it has is probably pretty hard to predict - just like when someone will go on a "hot streak" is hard to predict (yes, I actully went there). 

Thinking more about the #1 team bullseye - I think the inital affect of playing that #1 team may be more on the fan base.  More fans show-up, students are more involved, the place is a little more "electric" than usual.  Certainly the underdog team has to feed off that a little.

The implication I'm having a hard time dealing with in this discussion is that the impact on the underdog is always, or at least disproportionately, positive. Riding the proverbial emotional wave can just as easily lead to being "too amped up" or prone to "trying to do too much".

Sports narratives are heavily influenced by confirmation bias. When a heavy favorite loses many are quick to chalk it up as the result of a "bullseye" or some other external factor. Statistically speaking, even heavy favorites are expected to lose eventually. If we look at Massey's predictions and see that he makes one team an 80% favorite we would say that team is a heavy favorite. That is true but over a 20-game stretch the probability of winning all 20 games as an 80% favorite is just over 1%.

Big upsets are fun because we don't know when or where they will occur. But we know they will occur based on more than empirical evidence.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Happy Calvin Guy on October 26, 2012, 04:03:31 PM
Quote from: oldknight on October 24, 2012, 04:11:43 PM
Calvin's women's roster is up. No surprises that I see but a third Verkaik (Kally) graces the roster.

http://www.calvin.edu/sports/womens/basketball/roster.htm

The Verkaik talent pipeline is only rivaled by the Kamp family on the volleyball side of things.  Gotta love those devoted Calvin families that crank out tall athletic kids. 

Congrats to Coach Ross and the Knights on the #1 ranking.  Should be a fun season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on October 26, 2012, 04:19:21 PM
Quote from: ziggy on October 26, 2012, 03:33:36 PM
The implication I'm having a hard time dealing with in this discussion is that the impact on the underdog is always, or at least disproportionately, positive. Riding the proverbial emotional wave can just as easily lead to being "too amped up" or prone to "trying to do too much".

Very true - but that can also be an issue for the #1 team wearing the bullseye.  Every game they play on the road they potentially face a larger than normal, louder than normal, more amped up opposing crowd.  That too has its toll on the players.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sflzman on October 28, 2012, 08:32:31 PM
Kinda an interesting one here.  Alma won their scrimmage (normal timing, etc.) 109-102 today.  And their leading scorer from last year (who missed most of conference play with concussion issues), Grace Wheeler, left with another head injury.  No word on her status. 

Had a couple freshmen that looked pretty impressive, but when you score that many points everyone looks somewhat decent...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on October 30, 2012, 08:14:59 AM
Any other updates on scrimmages and how the teams looked?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sflzman on October 31, 2012, 07:00:45 AM
Quote from: sflzman on October 28, 2012, 08:32:31 PM
Kinda an interesting one here.  Alma won their scrimmage (normal timing, etc.) 109-102 today.  And their leading scorer from last year (who missed most of conference play with concussion issues), Grace Wheeler, left with another head injury.  No word on her status. 

Had a couple freshmen that looked pretty impressive, but when you score that many points everyone looks somewhat decent...

Update on Wheeler.  Grade 2 concussion.  Looks to be out a couple weeks AT LEAST, if not longer, or potentially a career ender...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on October 31, 2012, 08:56:45 AM
WBCA/USA Today Coaches poll is out:  http://www.wbca.org/blog/index.cfm/2012/10/30/20122013-PreSeason-DIII-Poll/

Calvin at #1, Hope #14.  Looks like Calvin has swept the preseason polls at #1.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on October 31, 2012, 10:14:46 AM
We were talking to some of the Hope bball alumni, part of the crew who were always ranked high in pre-season polls.  It is a funny thing.  They said it was an honor but every year it got less fun because there was so much more pressure, both team and individual.  When they were underclassmen, not alot of expectations but as seniors, it got intense.

So Calvin seniors enjoy the ride!!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 01, 2012, 12:12:55 PM
women's poll

1. Calvin (8) 8 pts.
2. Hope (1) 15 pts.
3. Albion 26.
4. Adrian 34.
5. Olivet 37.
6. Saint Mary's 43.
7. Alma 46.
8. Trine 51.
9. Kalamazoo 64.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on November 03, 2012, 07:08:02 AM
From Calvin's email sports report:

WOMEN'S BASKETBALL
Calvin 65, Ferris State 56
(Exhibition Game)



BIG RAPIDS - The Calvin women's basketball team picked up a 65-56 exhibition game victory at Division II Ferris State University Friday night.



Senior Carissa Verkaik (Holland Christian HS) had 16 points, sophomore Kayla Engelhard (Saginaw Valley Lutheran HS) 14 points and sophomore Breanna Verkaik (Holland Christian HS) nine points to lead the Knights.



Calvin went 14-of-16 at the free throw line and pulled away over the final four minutes by nailing eight free throws.



Calvin officially opens its season on November 16 against St. Thomas in a tournament hosted by Millikin University.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on November 03, 2012, 09:46:55 PM
Impressive beating the preseason number one team in the division two GLIAC......both Verkaiks deliver!   I wonder how much better the Knights will be when Hilbrands gets back from volleyball?

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on November 04, 2012, 07:04:08 AM
Quote from: Calvinhoops on November 03, 2012, 09:46:55 PM
Impressive beating the preseason number one team in the division two GLIAC......both Verkaiks deliver!   I wonder how much better the Knights will be when Hilbrands gets back from volleyball?
Could be a while yet--Calvin's Volleyball team beat Hope 3-2 for the MIAA Tournament Championship, and will now start a run in the National Championship Tournament.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on November 05, 2012, 10:32:00 AM
Verkaik - another first team All American (D3 Hoops)  :) :) :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 07, 2012, 06:45:59 AM
Interesting article in NCAA's Champion magazine about ACL tears; the injury and rehab of Hope's Meredith Kussmaul is featured along with several other athletes.  See http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/03aaab68#/03aaab68/40

The good news is that she's been cleared to play and reportedly playing well; great to hear for Dutch fans and a testament to her hard work.

On a related note, the Dutch had their first scrimmage last night, against Ferris.  Not a game format so there was no "winner", but heard Hope had the better of the play.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on November 07, 2012, 09:21:00 AM
Calvin #1 in both Women'r bball and vball.  Awesome for MIAA!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 11, 2012, 07:09:32 PM
Looking forward to the start of the season this week.  Calvin is deservedly the MIAA favorite, but I like Hope's team too and like last year, it wouldn't surprise me to see the Dutch sneak a win.

Hope's roster is an nice blend of senior experience and young talent.  Not sure who will start but it'll probably be some combination of:

Liz Ellis, 5'7" Sr.: starter for sure; 2-time MIAA defensive player of the year and 1st team MIAA, 10.7 ppg, very quick and excellent with the ball, drives the lane and shoots the 3 well.
Courtney Kust, 5'10" Sr.: another sure starter; also 1st team MIAA, led Hope with 10.9 ppg and 5.9 rpg, very strong and a threat inside and from the arc.
Meredith Kussmaul, 6'1" Sr.: will probably start if fully recovered from ACL, wouldn't be surprise if she comes off the bench for a while.  Strong in the post, shot 57% before injury but also led Hope at 40% from 3 pt line.
Rebekah Llorens, 6'1" So.: strong first season in the post, scored 9 ppg and 5.5 rpg in only 16 minutes per game, goes hard to the basket and draws fouls, named to a couple all tournament teams.
Hannah Doell 6'1" So.: was coming on strong with key contributions in the upset over Calvin before breaking arm.  A fast do-everything G/F, matchup nightmare.
Megan Kelly, 5'8" Jr.: A solid guard, good 3 pt shooter and comes up with a lot of steals.  Steadily improved throughout the year and got a couple of starts toward the end of the year.
Ashley Bauman, 6'1" Sr.: solid post player, started most games after Kussmaul went down.

The Dutch feature 8 players at 6' or taller.  I would expect Kristen Slotman, Liz Siepker, and Emily Klauka to be in the rotation inside, and 3 pt threat Brittany Berry to see time outside.  Not too familiar with the incoming freshman and rising JV players so not sure if any will break into the rotation.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on November 12, 2012, 12:20:37 PM
Anyone know what happened to Steffani Snikkers at Hope this year?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 12, 2012, 01:43:27 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on November 12, 2012, 12:20:37 PM
Anyone know what happened to Steffani Snikkers at Hope this year?

Not 100% sure, but I heard she is recovering from some sort of injury.  Apparently didn't participate in Fall workouts or tryouts.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on November 12, 2012, 05:39:27 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on November 12, 2012, 01:43:27 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on November 12, 2012, 12:20:37 PM
Anyone know what happened to Steffani Snikkers at Hope this year?

Not 100% sure, but I heard she is recovering from some sort of injury.  Apparently didn't participate in Fall workouts or tryouts.

Between her junior and senior years in high school, Steffani had knee surgery (going from dim memory it was an MCL), and she recovered in time to play her last year of prep ball. This past summer she tore the ACL in the other knee. She then enrolled at GVSU.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 12, 2012, 07:42:19 PM
Quote from: oldknight on November 12, 2012, 05:39:27 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on November 12, 2012, 01:43:27 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on November 12, 2012, 12:20:37 PM
Anyone know what happened to Steffani Snikkers at Hope this year?

Not 100% sure, but I heard she is recovering from some sort of injury.  Apparently didn't participate in Fall workouts or tryouts.

Between her junior and senior years in high school, Steffani had knee surgery (going from dim memory it was an MCL), and she recovered in time to play her last year of prep ball. This past summer she tore the ACL in the other knee. She then enrolled at GVSU.

GVSU?  I'm told she's enrolled at Hope, not playing at the moment but participating in some JV team activities, doing work study, etc..
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on November 12, 2012, 07:59:04 PM
OldKnight, like Sac, is one of our most esteemed and credible information sources on this board, but OldKnight may want to check his source for Steffani Snikkers' whereabouts.  (Perhaps she did enroll at GVSU, but she is a Hope student.)

Quote from: Roundball999 on November 12, 2012, 07:42:19 PM
Quote from: oldknight on November 12, 2012, 05:39:27 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on November 12, 2012, 01:43:27 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on November 12, 2012, 12:20:37 PM
Anyone know what happened to Steffani Snikkers at Hope this year?

Not 100% sure, but I heard she is recovering from some sort of injury.  Apparently didn't participate in Fall workouts or tryouts.

Between her junior and senior years in high school, Steffani had knee surgery (going from dim memory it was an MCL), and she recovered in time to play her last year of prep ball. This past summer she tore the ACL in the other knee. She then enrolled at GVSU.

GVSU?  I'm told she's enrolled at Hope, not playing at the moment but participating in some JV team activities, doing work study, etc..
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on November 13, 2012, 07:46:20 AM
Olivet played GVSU in an exhibition game last night.  I know GVSU is down this year but it looks like Olivet held their own and played well.   Maybe another team in the mix in the MIAA.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on November 13, 2012, 07:20:46 PM
Be sure to tune into Hoopsville this Thursday night as John Ross will be on the program.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on November 16, 2012, 08:29:48 AM
And so it begins.............
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on November 16, 2012, 09:32:10 PM
Quote from: pointlem on November 12, 2012, 07:59:04 PM
OldKnight, like Sac, is one of our most esteemed and credible information sources on this board, but OldKnight may want to check his source for Steffani Snikkers' whereabouts.  (Perhaps she did enroll at GVSU, but she is a Hope student.)

Quote from: Roundball999 on November 12, 2012, 07:42:19 PM
Quote from: oldknight on November 12, 2012, 05:39:27 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on November 12, 2012, 01:43:27 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on November 12, 2012, 12:20:37 PM
Anyone know what happened to Steffani Snikkers at Hope this year?

Not 100% sure, but I heard she is recovering from some sort of injury.  Apparently didn't participate in Fall workouts or tryouts.

Between her junior and senior years in high school, Steffani had knee surgery (going from dim memory it was an MCL), and she recovered in time to play her last year of prep ball. This past summer she tore the ACL in the other knee. She then enrolled at GVSU.

GVSU?  I'm told she's enrolled at Hope, not playing at the moment but participating in some JV team activities, doing work study, etc..

Not quite as credible it seems, but hopefully still esteemed. You are right, Steffani is still at Hope. My apologies for fumbling that ball. :-[ Her ACL surgery has not yet happened--it is scheduled for next week--but since Steffani was already enrolled when her injury occurred in summer ball, she entered classes in Holland in September.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on November 16, 2012, 10:03:08 PM
Calvin 77 St. Thomas 72.  Interesting to note these same two schools will be playing Sat. p.m. for the V Ball championship.
Nice win for Calvin, and payback to team that knocked them out of NCAA in March.
Next up is WSP which doesn't appear to have lost much.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 17, 2012, 07:35:59 AM
Quote from: oldknight on November 16, 2012, 09:32:10 PM
Quote from: pointlem on November 12, 2012, 07:59:04 PM
OldKnight, like Sac, is one of our most esteemed and credible information sources on this board, but OldKnight may want to check his source for Steffani Snikkers' whereabouts.  (Perhaps she did enroll at GVSU, but she is a Hope student.)

Quote from: Roundball999 on November 12, 2012, 07:42:19 PM
Quote from: oldknight on November 12, 2012, 05:39:27 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on November 12, 2012, 01:43:27 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on November 12, 2012, 12:20:37 PM
Anyone know what happened to Steffani Snikkers at Hope this year?

Not 100% sure, but I heard she is recovering from some sort of injury.  Apparently didn't participate in Fall workouts or tryouts.

Between her junior and senior years in high school, Steffani had knee surgery (going from dim memory it was an MCL), and she recovered in time to play her last year of prep ball. This past summer she tore the ACL in the other knee. She then enrolled at GVSU.

GVSU?  I'm told she's enrolled at Hope, not playing at the moment but participating in some JV team activities, doing work study, etc..

Not quite as credible it seems, but hopefully still esteemed. You are right, Steffani is still at Hope. My apologies for fumbling that ball. :-[ Her ACL surgery has not yet happened--it is scheduled for next week--but since Steffani was already enrolled when her injury occurred in summer ball, she entered classes in Holland in September.

Not to worry, I'm just glad to know that I'm not crazy :)

Good to see the Calvin and Hope women representing the MIAA well with nice wins yesterday.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on November 17, 2012, 09:01:13 AM
OldKnight, you are always esteemed . . . and usually credible. 

But surely Steffani is at Hope for more than basketball (and isn't attending, after her ACL injury, only out of inertia related to BB).  And hopefully she will be able to play in another year?  (If the Calvin women's program can benefit from the Kamp and Verkaik family farm systems--three Verkaiks on the Calvin varsity now, and two starting yesterday!--perhaps Hope women can similarly enjoy the Snikkers family talent?)

[/quote]
Quote from: oldknight on Yesterday at 09:32:10 pm:
Not quite as credible it seems, but hopefully still esteemed. You are right, Steffani is still at Hope. My apologies for fumbling that ball. :-[ Her ACL surgery has not yet happened--it is scheduled for next week--but since Steffani was already enrolled when her injury occurred in summer ball, she entered classes in Holland in September.
[/quote]
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on November 17, 2012, 11:09:42 AM
Quote from: pointlem on November 17, 2012, 09:01:13 AM
OldKnight, you are always esteemed . . . and usually credible. 

But surely Steffani is at Hope for more than basketball (and isn't attending, after her ACL injury, only out of inertia related to BB).  And hopefully she will be able to play in another year?  (If the Calvin women's program can benefit from the Kamp and Verkaik family farm systems--three Verkaiks on the Calvin varsity now, and two starting yesterday!--perhaps Hope women can similarly enjoy the Snikkers family talent?)


My family and I do know Steffani has more interests than basketball but certainly hoops was part of the equation in going to Holland. She was ball girl on Unity Christian's high school team when my daughters played with her talented older sister. Later I watched Stef play about 25 high school games. As much as she loves basketball I think whether she returns to the court depends a lot on how well her surgery goes and whether she is willing to commit to a long and difficult rehab process for the second time--and on her other knee. During her junior year she was a very difficult matchup for her high school opponents because as at 5'10", and physically very strong, Steffani usually played in the backcourt and could overwhelm even good players when she went inside. In the district final, she led her team to a district championship over a very good West Catholic team that simply could not matchup with her once they were forced to play man-to-man in the 4th quarter of that game. After her first knee injury before her senior year Stef was still good but I don't believe she ever got back the self-confidence in that knee any player needs in order to be their best. With a second surgery on the other knee, I wonder if she will make one more try. I just don't know.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 17, 2012, 06:29:14 PM
Stevens Point 82 Calvin 63

Hope 64 Wilmington 37
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 17, 2012, 11:40:16 PM
Quote from: sac on November 17, 2012, 06:29:14 PM
Stevens Point 82 Calvin 63

Hope 64 Wilmington 37

Oh, goody - IWU is AT UWSP next month! :P  (And we already lost to #6 UMU.)

Oh well, we have a tradition of losing to teams in the regular season then beating them in the postseason!  (Oh, wait - that is only a tradition last season.  Previously we would beat WashU or one of the WIAC powers in the regular season, then be ousted in the playoffs. ::))
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 19, 2012, 09:34:45 AM
Good luck to the Flying Dutch and Coach Morehouse as they try for Coach Mo's 400th win at Defiance tomorrow evening.  In my opinion you won't find a more honest, sincere and decent man than Coach Mo, who also happens to be an outstanding coach and program builder.  With a career winning % of about .860 and 14 consecutive 20-win seasons, I have to think he will be among the fastest D3 women's coaches to reach the 400 win milestone - even if it doesn't come tomorrow night.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on November 20, 2012, 08:46:47 PM
Done. :D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on November 20, 2012, 09:37:37 PM
nice job brain on  400
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 21, 2012, 10:55:43 AM
Coach Mo - job well done!!!  For you "stat junkies" out there:

100th victory - game 138
200th victory - game 250
300th victory - game 358
400th victory - game 468

which means:

1st 100 victories - record was 100-38 (.725)
2nd 100 victories - record was 100-12 (.893)
3rd 100 victories - record was 100-8  (.926)
4th 100 victories - record was 100-10  (.909)

Simply amazing!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 21, 2012, 11:53:30 AM
...and Brian's only about 43 years old.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 21, 2012, 02:31:54 PM
Quote from: sac on November 21, 2012, 11:53:30 AM
...and Brian's only about 43 years old.

Gotta love this pic from his first season (the player on the left, Lisa Timmer Schoonveld, is the wife of Hope AD Tim Schoonveld)

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hope.edu%2Fimg%2Fsports%2Fwbasketball%2F121120dWBBBrian7.jpg&hash=a15b45e3026eb5e20a969dfa3098ebb0c0de38cc)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 26, 2012, 08:39:30 PM
Calvin ranked #4, Hope at #9 in the latest D3Hoops poll.  Good to see two MIAA squads in the Top 10.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on November 26, 2012, 08:46:12 PM
First season rankings are out. Calvin fell from pre-season rank of #1 to current rank of #4.  I think that's about right.  USWP lost to St. Thomas, St. Thomas lost to Calvin, Calvin lost to UWSP.  It is early and still some sorting out to do.  Hope will climb with some w's against formidable opponents.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 27, 2012, 05:31:27 PM
Hope's women's preview with Brian Morehouse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRxE99rlQ-U
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 29, 2012, 06:58:42 AM
Very strong league start by MIAA favorites Calvin (at Albion) and Hope (at Kzoo).  Seems the games followed similar patterns, similar victory margin, over early, limited minutes for the starters, lots of PT for the bench.

Watched the Flying Dutch, they looked very strong against an overmatched Hornets team.  It was over before halftime, with the score 50-22 at the half with 10 players already in the scoring column.  At the end, everyone had played at least 10 minutes and no one played more than 18.  All 15 active players scored, with 51 total bench points and a 58-28 rebounding margin including a 25-4 margin on the offensive boards.

The biggest take-away for me was the strong play of Meredith Kussmaul.  She appears to be improving rapidly in her come back from ACL surgery and had a very nice 14 pt (6-9 fg including 2-4 3 pt), 5 reb, 3 asst game in limited minutes.  This bodes very well for the Flying Dutch down the road.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on November 29, 2012, 01:18:38 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on November 29, 2012, 06:58:42 AM
Very strong league start by MIAA favorites Calvin (at Albion) and Hope (at Kzoo).  Seems the games followed similar patterns, similar victory margin, over early, limited minutes for the starters, lots of PT for the bench.

Watched the Flying Dutch, they looked very strong against an overmatched Hornets team.  It was over before halftime, with the score 50-22 at the half with 10 players already in the scoring column.  At the end, everyone had played at least 10 minutes and no one played more than 18.  All 15 active players scored, with 51 total bench points and a 58-28 rebounding margin including a 25-4 margin on the offensive boards.

The biggest take-away for me was the strong play of Meredith Kussmaul.  She appears to be improving rapidly in her come back from ACL surgery and had a very nice 14 pt (6-9 fg including 2-4 3 pt), 5 reb, 3 asst game in limited minutes.  This bodes very well for the Flying Dutch down the road.
I have a coaching strategy question for the wise minds of this board.  What do you think would be the pros and cons of selecting 1 or 2 starters  from the superior team in these types of games and having them stay in and play a complete game?  For instance, if I am the Calvin coach, would I want some of my players to have more "full game" expereinces, so that when Hope comes to town, my players will have some greater expereince with playing out the full game?  If a player goes from playing limited minutes game after game (i.e., "no more than 18" above), then I need her in for the full game against a better opponent, have they lost something by not having many of those games?  Obviously, the down side would be the situation where my team is up by 35 and my star gets injured.  Thoughts?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on November 29, 2012, 03:14:04 PM
NB;  I think the lack of game time doen't matter much in the regular Wed./Sat rotation.  Where it does come to play is in the NCAA when you have a Fri./Sat. series against tough teams.  Calvin beat UWSP last year, and ran out of gas versus St. Thomas in ot. the next day.
Sports Illustrated had an interview with a h.s. football coach from a small school in
TX that was taking a lot of heat for beating teams by 50-60-70 points.  When asked why he was still playing his starters he answered for 3 years none of his starters played in the 3rd or 4th qtr, and his teams got beat in the play offs.  He siad he wanted his kids ready to play 4 qrtrs when they needed to, and there is only one way to do that.  None of the other coaches found fault with this logic even though their teams got pasted.
Coach Ross said in his preseason remarks this year he wanted his team to have the back to back experience early this year, and he got it with St. Thomas and UWSP.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 29, 2012, 03:25:09 PM
I'm not sure leaving the starters in against a very outmatched opponent would do much good; the intensity and skill level just doesn't mimic the top tier team so I'm not sure the full-game experience would be all that helpful.  If starter conditioning is a concern, I think that can be at least partially offset by well structured practices.  As you mentioned there is the possibility of injury in a situation where the starters are not needed.  It reduces development playing time opportunities for young players. 

I agree that just about any additional playing time in live game situations would help the starters improve, but against a much weaker team I think that improvement is limited and not worth the costs.  Just an opinion, I'm no coach :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on November 29, 2012, 05:42:50 PM
Good question, NB.  I'll wager that most coaches would say that many practices are as challenging and taxing as games . . . or more so . . . and serve to prepare players for 40 minute games.  Moreover, for Calvin and Hope women's teams, I suspect that intrasquad scrimmages are at least as challenging as what the starters would experience if left in to run up the score against a Kalamazoo or Albion (not to mention nonstarters deserving the opportunity to play and develop).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on December 01, 2012, 05:32:25 PM
Hope had a big win over Trine 72-35.  Trine came out hot, hit their first handful of shots including 3 threes and after that both teams were a little sloppy with the ball and shot poorly.  Hope began to assert itself in the last 8 minutes of the first half, led 30-22 at the half and put it away quickly at the beginning of the 2nd enabling lots of PT for the bench.  Most striking thing was a +31 rebounding margin for the Flying Dutch.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sflzman on December 01, 2012, 07:40:39 PM
Alma wins the battle of the bad up here today.  Kassidi Adams had a huge game for the Scots.  Kalamazoo is awful.

Alma 65 Kalamazoo 44
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on December 01, 2012, 09:19:28 PM
Hope had a girl on crutches on the bench today, was wearing a walking boot. All the roster players seemed to be accounted for. Seemed about 6'1" or 6'2". Anybody know who this might be?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on December 01, 2012, 09:28:57 PM
jpsii, you perhaps noticed in the opening circle that her head actually rose above those 6' 1" players.  She would be (from the volleyball roster):
      Jordan Scholten    Fr.    MH    6-5    Byron Center/Covenant Christian

Her injury precluded her playing volleyball, so she'll have four years eligibility for both VB and BB after this year, should she wish to use it.

Quote from: jspiii on December 01, 2012, 09:19:28 PM
Hope had a girl on crutches on the bench today, was wearing a walking boot. All the roster players seemed to be accounted for. Seemed about 6'1" or 6'2". Anybody know who this might be?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on December 01, 2012, 11:14:16 PM
Quote from: pointlem on December 01, 2012, 09:28:57 PM
jpsii, you perhaps noticed in the opening circle that her head actually rose above those 6' 1" players.  She would be (from the volleyball roster):
      Jordan Scholten    Fr.    MH    6-5    Byron Center/Covenant Christian

Her injury precluded her playing volleyball, so she'll have four years eligibility for both VB and BB after this year, should she wish to use it.

Quote from: jspiii on December 01, 2012, 09:19:28 PM
Hope had a girl on crutches on the bench today, was wearing a walking boot. All the roster players seemed to be accounted for. Seemed about 6'1" or 6'2". Anybody know who this might be?
She injured her foot early in the volleyball season and had surgery late in the volleyball season. FYI, her coach in High School was Gracia Kamp who played for Hope on the teams with Bria Ebels, the other Ebels and Ellen Wood,Julie Henderson, et al, and graduated just before the National Championship year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldtimer1937 on December 02, 2012, 08:59:38 AM
What do you guys think? Looks like Calvin and Hope again as usual, the rest is just fodder for sleepwalking through season. who is going to win the Calvin/Hope league (MIAA)?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on December 02, 2012, 09:17:48 AM
Quote from: oldtimer1937 on December 02, 2012, 08:59:38 AM
What do you guys think? Looks like Calvin and Hope again as usual, the rest is just fodder for sleepwalking through season. who is going to win the Calvin/Hope league (MIAA)?

Agree that Calvin and Hope are again in a separate tier at the top of the league but as Hope saw last year with losses to Albion and Trine, league games are not gimmees and an unexpected loss can keep you out of the tournament.

I still have to give the nod to Calvin as league favorite.  They have nearly everyone back, Verkaik is Verkaik, and Engelhard is playing really well.  That said, Hope is playing really well too and their across the board balance, size and depth is enough to give anyone trouble.  Kussmaul's continued improvement from ACL is a wild card, she didn't play in any of the Calvin-Hope games last year.  But basically in my mind it's same as last year: Calvin as the favorite but no huge surprise if Hope pins a loss on the Knights.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldtimer1937 on December 03, 2012, 08:16:00 AM

Wait till you see Albion or Trine.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on December 03, 2012, 08:37:55 AM
Quote from: oldtimer1937 on December 03, 2012, 08:16:00 AM

Wait till you see Albion or Trine.

Yes, I've seen Hope and Calvin thump Trine and Albion respectively this year.  I wasn't really commenting on those two teams specifically, just making the more general point that while Calvin and Hope are clearly in a tier on their own, they have to watch out against the temptation of just phoning in the rest of the league games.  Hope had those two bad losses last year which kept them out of the tournament, and even Calvin had a squeaker against Adrian and a tough game at Albion.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on December 03, 2012, 10:30:51 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on December 03, 2012, 08:37:55 AM
Quote from: oldtimer1937 on December 03, 2012, 08:16:00 AM

Wait till you see Albion or Trine.

Yes, I've seen Hope and Calvin thump Trine and Albion respectively this year.  I wasn't really commenting on those two teams specifically, just making the more general point that while Calvin and Hope are clearly in a tier on their own, they have to watch out against the temptation of just phoning in the rest of the league games.  Hope had those two bad losses last year which kept them out of the tournament, and even Calvin had a squeaker against Adrian and a tough game at Albion.
Neither coach Ross nor coach Mo are about to let their teams look past anyone.  Calvin has played a very tough non-conference schedule specifically to have them prepared for the wars ahead.  I expect the VNA, and De Vos games to meet our expectations.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on December 03, 2012, 10:59:08 AM
Quote from: realist on December 03, 2012, 10:30:51 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on December 03, 2012, 08:37:55 AM
Quote from: oldtimer1937 on December 03, 2012, 08:16:00 AM

Wait till you see Albion or Trine.

The GOP will soon be irrelevant

Yes, I've seen Hope and Calvin thump Trine and Albion respectively this year.  I wasn't really commenting on those two teams specifically, just making the more general point that while Calvin and Hope are clearly in a tier on their own, they have to watch out against the temptation of just phoning in the rest of the league games.  Hope had those two bad losses last year which kept them out of the tournament, and even Calvin had a squeaker against Adrian and a tough game at Albion.
Neither coach Ross nor coach Mo are about to let their teams look past anyone.  Calvin has played a very tough non-conference schedule specifically to have them prepared for the wars ahead.  I expect the VNA, and De Vos games to meet our expectations.
Quote from: realist on December 03, 2012, 10:30:51 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on December 03, 2012, 08:37:55 AM
Quote from: oldtimer1937 on December 03, 2012, 08:16:00 AM

Wait till you see Albion or Trine.

Yes, I've seen Hope and Calvin thump Trine and Albion respectively this year.  I wasn't really commenting on those two teams specifically, just making the more general point that while Calvin and Hope are clearly in a tier on their own, they have to watch out against the temptation of just phoning in the rest of the league games.  Hope had those two bad losses last year which kept them out of the tournament, and even Calvin had a squeaker against Adrian and a tough game at Albion.
Neither coach Ross nor coach Mo are about to let their teams look past anyone.  Calvin has played a very tough non-conference schedule specifically to have them prepared for the wars ahead.  I expect the VNA, and De Vos games to meet our expectations.

You're probably right.  Then again, no way Hope should have lost to Trine at Devos last year when Trine finishes with a 5-11 MIAA record.  Not implying aspersions on either coach, they are both outstanding.  Just saying that other league games shouldn't be considered a lock.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on December 03, 2012, 06:26:34 PM
Calvin at #3 (with one #1 vote) and Hope at #6 in latest D3hoops.com poll.  Great showing by the MIAA!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on December 03, 2012, 07:51:09 PM
rb999  Over the years one learns that no team should ever overlook another.  One also should learn that sometimes the team that really should win doesn't, and the reasons defy logic or reason, but the results are what the results are.
I can cite about 20 MIAA examples of W/L's that just shouldn't have occurred.  For example:  This year Calvin's vball team is playing for the championship at De Vos.  They have the crowd, and evrything in their favor.  Win the first 2 matches, but finish # 2.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on December 03, 2012, 08:08:25 PM
Quote from: realist on December 03, 2012, 07:51:09 PM
rb999  Over the years one learns that no team should ever overlook another.  One also should learn that sometimes the team that really should win doesn't, and the reasons defy logic or reason, but the results are what the results are.
I can cite about 20 MIAA examples of W/L's that just shouldn't have occurred.  For example:  This year Calvin's vball team is playing for the championship at De Vos.  They have the crowd, and evrything in their favor.  Win the first 2 matches, but finish # 2.

We are in violent agreement.

Watched the Calvin VB title match (streamed) and also agree with you there.  I was really pulling for the Knights and it sure seemed like they had it sewn up after those first two sets.  Alas.... somehow the Tommies started digging everything.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on December 04, 2012, 07:27:01 AM
Interesting early on statistic, Calvin letting other teams score 15-20 more points per game than last year and 20 more points per game than Hope this year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on December 04, 2012, 08:31:51 AM
Quote from: bballforever on December 04, 2012, 07:27:01 AM
Interesting early on statistic, Calvin letting other teams score 15-20 more points per game than last year and 20 more points per game than Hope this year.

I think a few contributing factors:

- Calvin's early season schedule was tougher than Hope's and far tougher than its own early schedule last year.
- Calvin scoring is also up about 4 ppg so far compared to last year, maybe playing a little more up tempo?
- Calvin's Hilbrands missed early games due to volleyball's run to the championship game
- Hope's usually solid defense does appear to be even stronger this year and rebounding is improved too
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on December 04, 2012, 09:26:02 AM
I agree on your perspective on Hope's performance so far and in the future.

I do also agree on your comments on Calvin's tougher start this year but you still have to play defense.  And even though they are scoring more, 15-20 more points allowed seems worrisome to me.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on December 04, 2012, 11:03:16 AM
Comparing apples to apples.....Calvin gave up 69 pts in regulation to St. Thomas last year and 72 this year.....Calvin gave up 49 and 50 to Albion last year and only 42 this year......I don't think there is that much difference it's mostly due to having to play Thomas More and having run into a hot shooting  Wisconsin Stevens Point who scored 84 Compared to 71 last year.  Notice they have cooled off since then in shooting percentage.  I guess time will tell!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on December 04, 2012, 11:10:46 AM
Good data, thanks.  And yes time will tell.

We just can't wait until the first Hope/Calvin showdown!!!  January right?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on December 04, 2012, 12:26:51 PM
I've been able to see all of the Calvin games so far this year and I tend to agree that their points allowed are up a bit this year because of the competition played early on and also the absence of Hilbrands.  Also by graduating one of their best defensive players last year in Jill Thomas doesn't help.  I think as the season progresses the team will continue to improve on their defense.  Engelhard has been looking great, both offensively and defensively.  And Carissa Verkaik is still Carissa Verkaik  :)

I like the game comparison by Calvinhoops and agree that Stevens Point could not miss and have since cooled off.  Stevens Point was gearing up for that game all summer as Calvin beat them last year, just like Calvin was gearing up to play St. Thomas in the first game.  The Knights looked tired and not ready to play in that game for whatever reason and Stevens Point played a great game and kept the game at a fast tempo.

It was good to see Calvin come back the next weekend and win both games to show they can play 2 good games back to back.  These two opening tournaments were perfect to help them prepare for the NCAA tournament.

The win against Thomas More was special.  It was a hard fought game and to see them come back from down 10 with less than 2 minutes to play was something you don't see too often.  The Knights did not give up and kept fighting.  Once they tied it to get to overtime there was no looking back.

I also have to say that I think Roundball999's assessment of the league this year is spot on:
Quote from: Roundball999 on December 02, 2012, 09:17:48 AM
Quote
I still have to give the nod to Calvin as league favorite.  They have nearly everyone back, Verkaik is Verkaik, and Engelhard is playing really well.  That said, Hope is playing really well too and their across the board balance, size and depth is enough to give anyone trouble.  Kussmaul's continued improvement from ACL is a wild card, she didn't play in any of the Calvin-Hope games last year.  But basically in my mind it's same as last year: Calvin as the favorite but no huge surprise if Hope pins a loss on the Knights.

Can't wait to see how the season plays out.

Also, I don't think it was mentioned on here a few weeks ago, but congratulations to Carissa Verkaik for becoming Calvin's all-time leading scorer!  She did this in the second game of the season.  She has the chance to finish her career with 2,000 points, 1,000 rebounds, and 400 blocks.  Pretty impressive.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 04, 2012, 02:53:53 PM
Assuming no one else accomplishes the same thing this year Carissa would be the 12th D3 women to have 2,000 points and 1,000 rebounds in a career.

She should become the MIAA's leading scorer in league games around the 10th league game this year.


Maintaining career avg's and a 30 game season gets her 2,200 points, 1,100 rebounds and 460 blocks and a place somewhere on the D3 record list for points, blocks and blocks avg..

btw, there are some crazy high records for D3 women.
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/resources/stats/w+basketball/2013rb.html
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on December 04, 2012, 03:13:49 PM
Those ARE some crazy high records for the D3 women!!!

And I agree on your quote:

"And Carissa Verkaik is still Carissa Verkaik"  :) :) :) :)

She is a one of a kind.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on December 05, 2012, 02:25:54 PM
Nice write up on the Knights on the D3 home page.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on December 05, 2012, 08:39:29 PM
With 16 minutes to go in the second half, it's Verkaik 25, alma 19.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on December 06, 2012, 08:36:15 AM
Not even worth the trip to Alma for the Knights  :( :( :(
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 06, 2012, 08:59:51 AM
Dec 19.   Hope at Olivet
Dec 22.   Calvin at Olivet

Olivet's two biggest women's games in years and they will be on break.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mark_reichert on December 06, 2012, 04:40:06 PM
Quote from: sac on December 04, 2012, 02:53:53 PM
Assuming no one else accomplishes the same thing this year Carissa would be the 12th D3 women to have 2,000 points and 1,000 rebounds in a career.

She should become the MIAA's leading scorer in league games around the 10th league game this year.


Maintaining career avg's and a 30 game season gets her 2,200 points, 1,100 rebounds and 460 blocks and a place somewhere on the D3 record list for points, blocks and blocks avg..

Good luck to her.

Mind you I look upon these milestones with a grain of salt in a game where the quality of your team determines the number of minutes and possessions you play.  There's a three-time Division III Player of the Year that "only" got to 1974 points and 969 rebounds.

Oh well, Red Schoendienst "only" managed 1999 games.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 15, 2012, 05:19:14 PM
Hope beat UW-Whitewater today 63-52, it was 30-9 at halftime, 14 first half turnovers for WW.
Kust 18, Ellis 18, Doell 15


In the meaningless score comparison department.....
UWSP 83 Calvin 62
Whitewater 55 UWSP 52
Hope 63 Whitewater 52
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on December 15, 2012, 09:23:52 PM
Quote from: sac on December 15, 2012, 05:19:14 PM
Hope beat UW-Whitewater today 63-52, it was 30-9 at halftime, 14 first half turnovers for WW.
Kust 18, Ellis 18, Doell 15


In the meaningless score comparison department.....
UWSP 83 Calvin 62
Whitewater 55 UWSP 52
Hope 63 Whitewater 52

Different games, different situations. We won't know anything until January 12. Looking forward to it  :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 16, 2012, 02:24:51 PM
different circumstances indeed, wow

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/sports/sports_hope/x1665850192/Rebekah-Llorens-pushes-through-pain-of-losing-friend
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on December 16, 2012, 05:03:32 PM
Quote from: sac on December 16, 2012, 02:24:51 PM
different circumstances indeed, wow

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/sports/sports_hope/x1665850192/Rebekah-Llorens-pushes-through-pain-of-losing-friend

Thanks for posting that link.  Puts the game back into perspective.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on December 17, 2012, 09:23:45 AM
Pretty impressive win for the Flying Dutch over a very talented Wisconsin-Whitewater team.  WW has a strong inside game and outstanding guards too.  Kumerow is really good in the post but Hope was able to limit her touches.  Thill is an outstanding point guard but was visibly frustrated trying to deal with Hope's Liz Ellis and ended up with limited time due to foul trouble.  WW is a handful for anybody, is currently undefeated in the very tough WIAC, and from what I could see will surely make some noise come tournament time.

The difference in the game was the absolutely ferocious defense the Flying Dutch played, especially in the 1st half, probably the best half of defense I've seen in D3 women's hoops.  Halftime score was 30-9, with WW giving up 15 turnovers (10 Hope steals) and shooting 17 percent.  Ellis was typically disruptive at the point, but the rest of the Flying Dutch were equally aggressive and the posts (mainly Kussmaul, Llorens and Bauman) did a fine job denying inside position and providing backside help.  Hope scoring was fairly balanced, with seniors Ellis and Kust again leading the way with 18 and sophomore Doell chipping in with a big 15.  Ellis was named tournament MVP, with Kust and Doell selected to the all tournament team.

This was a signature win for Hope given the quality of WW, but the Flying Dutch now have to watch out for a letdown with a trap game against a much improved Olivet team at Olivet on Wednesday.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on December 17, 2012, 11:42:02 AM
Looks alot like Hope is playing defense like Calvin did last year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 17, 2012, 01:15:44 PM
When I saw the Hope/WW halftime score I immediately thought of last years MIAA Tournament Championship game

http://miaa.org/wbb/stats/1112/miaatrn2.htm

....I really never wanted to remember that ever again.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sflzman on December 17, 2012, 10:05:38 PM
Alma played a solid 25:21 seconds today, and had a lead...but then Elmhurst had their way with a 21-0, while holding the Scots to ZERO field goals in the last 14:39 of today's contest.

Not sure if I've ever seen that...

Grace Wheeler with 11 first half points off the bench in her debut since suffering another concussion again JCC during exhib. season.  She looked like she was 100% again, and talking to Grace she's had quite the itch to get back on court.  She did look a little winded though, but that will come obviously as she is 8 games behind everyone else
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on December 19, 2012, 08:34:50 AM
Big game tonight, Hope at Olivet.  Maybe the Comets can give the Dutch a run for their money.  But, with Hope's stifling defense, not sure that will heppen.  Good luck to both teams!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on December 19, 2012, 09:00:53 AM
Quote from: bballforever on December 19, 2012, 08:34:50 AM
Big game tonight, Hope at Olivet.  Maybe the Comets can give the Dutch a run for their money.  But, with Hope's stifling defense, not sure that will heppen.  Good luck to both teams!!

This game will go a long way toward showing if the Comets are a contender.  Hope's defense will keep them in the game regardless; the game will probably turn on the strength of Olivet's defense.  Hope's shooting is a little inconsistent at times, if they shoot 40% or better I see this as a solid Hope win.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 19, 2012, 09:47:27 PM
Hope 56 Olivet 44

Hope shot 28%, Olivet committed 29 turnovers.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on December 19, 2012, 09:55:26 PM
Quote from: sac on December 19, 2012, 09:47:27 PM
Hope 56 Olivet 44

Hope shot 28%, Olivet committed 29 turnovers.

It wasn't pretty, and Hope was pretty lethargic on the boards in the first half.  I imagine they got a bit of a wake-up call from Coach Mo at half time.  That defense, and 16 steals with +19 turnover margin, helps make up for a lot of ills.

Olivet is much improved, but I don't see them giving Calvin much trouble on Saturday.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on December 20, 2012, 07:42:59 AM
"It wasn't pretty" was an undersatement!!  That was some bad basketball!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on December 20, 2012, 09:06:36 AM
Quote from: bballforever on December 20, 2012, 07:42:59 AM
"It wasn't pretty" was an undersatement!!  That was some bad basketball!!

I do take one positive from it: last year Hope might have lost when they had an off night like that, e.g. the losses to Albion and Trine.  So far, they're winning those games this year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on December 22, 2012, 05:26:29 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on December 15, 2012, 09:23:52 PM
Quote from: sac on December 15, 2012, 05:19:14 PM
Hope beat UW-Whitewater today 63-52, it was 30-9 at halftime, 14 first half turnovers for WW.
Kust 18, Ellis 18, Doell 15


In the meaningless score comparison department.....
UWSP 83 Calvin 62
Whitewater 55 UWSP 52
Hope 63 Whitewater 52
. Hope 56. Olivet 44
Calvin 84 Olivet 47


Different games, different situations. We won't know anything until January 12. Looking forward to it  :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldtimer1937 on December 23, 2012, 10:04:15 AM
wake me up jan 12 zzzzz
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on December 23, 2012, 03:06:37 PM
Exactly!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on December 29, 2012, 07:19:16 PM
Calvin wins two out west. 
In the Concordia game J Hilbrands with a double double 20/12.  CV with 18.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on December 30, 2012, 08:41:21 AM
Nice win for the Flying Dutch yesterday against a very solid Baldwin-Wallace team.  With the win, Hope stretches its record to 12-0 and wins its third tournament of the season.

Even though Hope allowed a season high 60 pts, defense was still key.  Hope was +13 in turnover margin and 28-5 in points off turnovers.  The Dutch also came out with a hot hand, hitting 8 of its first 10 3pt attempts and finishing 11-17 for the game.

Liz Ellis was again outstanding for Hope, winning another tournament MVP.  I haven't seen a better guard in D3 this year; hits the three, runs the offense, breaks the press and plays on-ball defense all at an extremely high level.

BW is a very nice team and will win a lot of games this year.  They took #2 Mt. Union down to the wire at Mt. Union's home court and after seeing BW play, I can understand why.  Yesterday they just ran into a very hot Hope team playing on its home court in one of the Dutch's better games of the year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on December 30, 2012, 06:03:36 PM
Baldwin is 5-6......I am surprised they looked that good to you.....how did they lose to Case Western?   Sounds like Hope was hitting on all cylinders.....once again Calvin had another player step up to win a game...this time Hilbrands.  Calvin can score in many ways and Verkaik hasn't hit her stride yet...hasn't been player of the week in MIAA...who knows what January 12 will bring!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on December 30, 2012, 07:15:57 PM
Oh, no doubt Calvin should be a solid favorite on Jan 12.  They were the better team last year and have more of their starters back, are higher ranked, will be playing at home, and have Verkaik.

As far as BW, have you actually seen them play this year?  All I can say is that I saw a team that, compared to many other teams I've seen, rebounds quite well, has good size, guards that can really shoot, and plays good defense.  Their game with Mt. Union shows that on a given day they can play with some of the best in the country.  Two of their other losses were to Hope and to Ohio Northern (higher Massey rating than Calvin) so their schedule has been pretty tough.  I'm not saying they'll contend for a championship, just that they are very solid.  Can't explain Case Western other than to speculate a bad day?  Hope sure had several last year, and apparently even Calvin does (e.g. Wisc-SP) :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on December 31, 2012, 11:00:59 AM
Don't forget when Calvin played UWSP J. Hilbrands was playing vball at the De Vos.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on December 31, 2012, 11:17:24 AM
Quote from: realist on December 31, 2012, 11:00:59 AM
Don't forget when Calvin played UWSP J. Hilbrands was playing vball at the De Vos.

Didn't forget, I watched the match and was cheering hard for Calvin and the MIAA.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldtimer1937 on January 01, 2013, 11:21:43 AM
Is it jan 12th yet? zzzzzz
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on January 03, 2013, 10:00:47 AM
Oldtimer is right on, waiting for 12 Jan.

My thoughts on the upcoming Hope/Calvin rivalry.  Someone in this post stated that CV has not hit her stride yet.  Mid season almost so that might be a worry.  If CV does not touch ball more than she has recently than Calvin might have some more trouble than last year.  But, anything goes in a rivalry game
Ellis playing well but has not historically played well at all at Calvin.  Pressure on her, being her senior year and all.  I am thinking that she won't let a poor shooting performance last year impact her this year.  She is too good a player, maybe an MVP candidate.
Rest of players, all depends on how they handle the pressure and the crowd.  Most of the impact players are seniors, so their last go at it.  They have all been there before, so it should be a well played game.
Coach Mo should be happy the "hope killers" graduated.  It might give them a better chance to win one at Calvin.
My pick, Calvin by 5.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 03, 2013, 10:48:15 AM
In the 2011-2012 season CV 19.2ppg; 8.8 rpg; 26.8 mpg
In the 2012-2013 season CV 18.3ppg; 9.1 rpg; 24.4 mpg

Looking at that comparison it would appear that CV is actually on top of her game, and in full stride.
CV is 18.3 ppg in conference, 2.2 ahead of Spragg from Trine.  Liz Ellis is 11.1 ppg.
CV leads rpg by 1 rpg, fg% by .050, and is 2nd in ft%.


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 07, 2013, 04:47:05 PM
Hope up to # 5 in week 6 top 25.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 08, 2013, 05:36:40 AM
Great performance by the MIAA with two of the five top ranked teams, Calvin #2 and Hope #5.  Hope is leading the nation in scoring defense at 43.5 ppg.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: knight4ball on January 08, 2013, 04:01:27 PM
Interesting results when looking at current ranked top 25 and SOS.. who would have thought the top 5... would be at the bottom 7.

Top 25 ranking        NCAA SOS
8.       Tufts                      9
25.     George Fox            12
14.     Simpson                27
15      UW-Whitewater      41
23      Christopher Nwpt   44
6        Amherst                47
17      Catholic                 49
10      Lewis & Clark         68
20      Lebanon Valley       80
12      Montclair St           84
9        Ohio Northern        87
22      Babson                  103
18      York                      112
16      UW Stevens PT       115
13      Southern Maine       140
11      Thomas More          145
24      Mount Union           146
19      Whitman                149
5        Hope                     194
4        St. Thomas             200

2        Calvin (1)               212
7        Messiah                  231
1        DePauw (24)           262
21      Cornell                    269
3        Washington U          279
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 08, 2013, 04:07:29 PM
Wow.  I'm not sure I understand the NCAA SoS you refer to, or the reason for the huge disparity between that and Massey SoS ratings.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: knight4ball on January 08, 2013, 05:54:18 PM
Can't say I understand how it is all computed as well.. but numbers are from d3hoops site..

http://www.d3hoops.com/seasons/women/2012-13/schedule?tmpl=sos-template
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 08, 2013, 06:13:25 PM
The NCAA's SOS only takes into account regional games, so that may have some impact. In the NCAA's mind, Calvin and St. Thomas get no credit for playing each other, nor do Calvin and UW-Stevens Point.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 08, 2013, 06:19:50 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 08, 2013, 06:13:25 PM
The NCAA's SOS only takes into account regional games, so that may have some impact. In the NCAA's mind, Calvin and St. Thomas get no credit for playing each other, nor do Calvin and UW-Stevens Point.

Don't know if it affects any of the women's teams, but someone also pointed out that for the men, Massey was (improperly) including some exhibitions against d1 opponents.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 08, 2013, 06:56:08 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 08, 2013, 06:19:50 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 08, 2013, 06:13:25 PM
The NCAA's SOS only takes into account regional games, so that may have some impact. In the NCAA's mind, Calvin and St. Thomas get no credit for playing each other, nor do Calvin and UW-Stevens Point.

Don't know if it affects any of the women's teams, but someone also pointed out that for the men, Massey was (improperly) including some exhibitions against d1 opponents.

Looking at a few of the women's teams on Massey, that doesn't appear to be the problem.

I'm thinking Pat is on the right track; as he pointed out Calvin played an extremley tough non-league schedule and did very well, but NCAA gives them no credit for that.  Same with Hope and their win over UW-WW for example.  DePauw gets no credit in the NCAA system for wins over very strong teams like Washington St Louis, IWU and Babson.  In fact the strong teams seemed most likely to play strong non-league schedules that often included top out of region opponents.  As a result, in some cases it seems like the NCAA SoS calculation gives almost the opposite results of the Massey system.  To me, the Massey system is a much more realistic view of SoS for national ranking purposes.

Yet another foible of the flawed NCAA regional selection system.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 08, 2013, 07:55:37 PM
DePauw/IWU IS in-region (200-mile rule).  (But IWU's lousy, for them, record early in the season doesn't help DePauw much!)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 08, 2013, 10:56:12 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 08, 2013, 06:19:50 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 08, 2013, 06:13:25 PM
The NCAA's SOS only takes into account regional games, so that may have some impact. In the NCAA's mind, Calvin and St. Thomas get no credit for playing each other, nor do Calvin and UW-Stevens Point.

Don't know if it affects any of the women's teams, but someone also pointed out that for the men, Massey was (improperly) including some exhibitions against d1 opponents.

Only one I found was George Fox having a game with Portland State count for massey.  Really didn't look much deeper than that though.  Taking that game out still puts George Fox in the top 10 though for SOS.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 08, 2013, 11:01:21 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 08, 2013, 06:56:08 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 08, 2013, 06:19:50 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 08, 2013, 06:13:25 PM
The NCAA's SOS only takes into account regional games, so that may have some impact. In the NCAA's mind, Calvin and St. Thomas get no credit for playing each other, nor do Calvin and UW-Stevens Point.

Don't know if it affects any of the women's teams, but someone also pointed out that for the men, Massey was (improperly) including some exhibitions against d1 opponents.

Looking at a few of the women's teams on Massey, that doesn't appear to be the problem.

I'm thinking Pat is on the right track; as he pointed out Calvin played an extremley tough non-league schedule and did very well, but NCAA gives them no credit for that.  Same with Hope and their win over UW-WW for example.  DePauw gets no credit in the NCAA system for wins over very strong teams like Washington St Louis, IWU and Babson.  In fact the strong teams seemed most likely to play strong non-league schedules that often included top out of region opponents.  As a result, in some cases it seems like the NCAA SoS calculation gives almost the opposite results of the Massey system.  To me, the Massey system is a much more realistic view of SoS for national ranking purposes.

I don't know about that -- Massey seems to disproportionately favor schools in the West, especially on the men's side. No denying that there is an epicenter of Division III strength there, but I think it's a little exaggerated by Massey's formula.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on January 09, 2013, 07:27:31 AM
3 days until Calvin/Hope matchup.  :) :) :)

Any thoughts or predictions??
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 09, 2013, 09:08:44 PM
Calvin 98 K 52
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on January 10, 2013, 07:30:01 AM
So, based upon the scores of the games last night, history holds true.
Hope best in defense, Calvin scoring alot of points.  Showdown Saturday should be interesting. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 10, 2013, 09:15:18 AM
Quote from: bballforever on January 09, 2013, 07:27:31 AM
3 days until Calvin/Hope matchup.  :) :) :)

Any thoughts or predictions??

Hope has had trouble shooting at Calvin recently, getting off to atrocious starts in both games there last year.  Attribute that to good Calvin D.  Hope shooting has still been up and down this year so I'm not sure there's any reason to predict a big change.  Hope defense is improved with Kussmaul and Doell available this year, so that should maybe keep it closer, but I'm still going with Calvin by about 10.  Like last year, I like the Dutch in the game at Devos.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on January 10, 2013, 04:11:57 PM
Coach Ross and Coach Morehouse will be on Hoopsville tonight to discuss the upcoming Rivalry game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 10, 2013, 05:16:04 PM
There was a time, not that long ago even, when you'd mention a Hope/Calvin women's game and you'd get a look of indifference or a derisive comment.  Now I sense genuine excitement.

The most recent versions of these games have gone to the home team, Hope was the last to win on the others floor in 2010.  Seven in a row counting the last H/C game of 2010 for the home team.

2012--Calvin 72, Hope 59
         Hope 59, Calvin 55
         Calvin 65, Hope 43
2011--Calvin 56, Hope 55
         Hope 70 Calvin 48
         Calvin 67, Hope 65
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 10, 2013, 11:33:35 PM
hoopsville interviews with Ross and Morehouse

http://d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2012-13/jan10

Brian Morehouse interview starts at about 1 hour 31 minutes.  about 18 minutes

John Ross interview starts at about 1 hour 51 minutes.  about 22 minutes
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on January 11, 2013, 10:03:47 AM
Both interviews were good.  I loved the questions at the end, even made the Calvin coach laugh.
Interesting perspective of interviewer that with all the seniors Calvin has, might be their last chance.  I think that is true..... more so due to CV being a senior.  Not alot of CVs out there to recruit.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 11, 2013, 11:52:16 AM
She definitely is a special player. But the women's basketball championship is attainable. You'd be surprised what success based on one player can do -- sometimes it can get you a whole class of great players to work from after they graduate.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 11, 2013, 12:19:25 PM
Quote from: sac on January 10, 2013, 11:33:35 PM
hoopsville interviews with Ross and Morehouse

http://d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2012-13/jan10

Brian Morehouse interview starts at about 1 hour 31 minutes.  about 18 minutes

John Ross interview starts at about 1 hour 51 minutes.  about 22 minutes

Thanks for sharing, sac.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on January 11, 2013, 12:33:22 PM
Quote from: bballforever on January 11, 2013, 10:03:47 AM
Both interviews were good.  I loved the questions at the end, even made the Calvin coach laugh.
Interesting perspective of interviewer that with all the seniors Calvin has, might be their last chance.  I think that is true..... more so due to CV being a senior.  Not alot of CVs out there to recruit.


Let me try to add some perspective to these comments. It's true that a Carissa Verkaik doesn't come by a D3 campus very often, and she certainly is a special player as Pat mentions, but so was Lisa Winkle, who was a phenomenal two sport athlete. When Lisa left Knollcrest, not many thought we would see her equal--much less her superior--any time soon. Just after Winkle's career ended my daughters played high school basketball against a Holland Christian HS squad that featured a tall, gangly, seemingly unathletic freshmen. I looked at my program, checked out the name and thought to myself, "Wow, this Verkaik girl may be tall but she has a lot of work ahead of her to be an impact player at the high school level." The following spring my daughters ran track against Carissa and despite her lengthy stride, I thought the same thing. Having seen Winkle compete in both sports in high school and at Calvin, I would have scoffed at the notion that Verkaik would ever be mentioned in the same breath as Lisa Winkle. So much for that kind of thinking. Maybe Calvin won't see a presence as dominating as Carissa for 20 or more years, but I'm more cautious than I used to be about making such judgments--including judgments that preclude giving Calvin a chance at winning a championship without CV.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on January 11, 2013, 01:26:45 PM
I was impressed with how HOPE bounced back without Snikkers and wonder if Calvin will do the same, however Hope did lose some games last year that eliminated them from NCAA tourney. I wonder what Calvin's record would be this year without CV?  They probably would have lost to St. Thomas and Thomas More and would be in jeopardy of making NCAA.....same with last year.  Both teams still have a supporting cast that would start at any other school in MIAA.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on January 11, 2013, 06:03:58 PM
In preparation for the Calvin Hope game. Enjoy the Rivalry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3-rnt9OxPg
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldtimer1937 on January 12, 2013, 08:50:16 AM
OK, I`m awake now! Sorry Calvin faithful DEFENSE wins championships Hope 65  Calvin 55
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on January 12, 2013, 09:21:32 PM
Calvin Wins, 64-59!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 12, 2013, 09:32:17 PM
Nice win for Calvin, they came through at crunch time after being down by 6 midway through the 2nd half.  Hope can't feel good about a loss, but after tonight's game I'm going with Hope as a solid favorite at DeVos.  I don't see Ellis and Kust going a combined 4-29 there as they did tonight...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on January 12, 2013, 10:16:23 PM
Finally we can give credit to Calvin's Defense holding Ellis and Kust to 4 for 30 shooting.  Defense does win!

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 12, 2013, 10:21:52 PM
Massey prediction for the game was 63-59 Calvin.  Wow, they had that nailed.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on January 12, 2013, 11:57:25 PM
It was certainly a treat to watch two national champion quality teams play one another at VNA tonight before a nice crowd of just under 3000 fans. Too bad the officials--who hurt both teams about evenly--weren't quite up to the task. It was a game of mini-runs with Calvin getting the final and definitive run of the game. It seemed to me that these runs were always fueled by the absence of a key player or two from the lineup of the team on the receiving end of these runs. With Hope leading 54-51 and five minutes left, Kussmaul was unjustly awarded her fourth foul sending her to the bench and Verkaik to the line. Meredith only spent two minutes off the floor but in that short time Calvin seized control of the game, scoring the next nine points. I suspect if Coach Morehouse had a do-over he would have just kept her in the game.

Calvin certainly was a deserving winner, in part because they did a better job than Hope at putting pressure on the interior of their opponent's defense leading to a better shooting percentage and more free throws. Too often I thought Hope settled for the jumper. On the other hand, Hope did a nice job of forcing turnovers. 28 is an ugly number and that can't continue if the Lady Knights expect to hoist a trophy in March.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 13, 2013, 02:02:48 AM
Quote from: oldknight on January 12, 2013, 11:57:25 PM
It was certainly a treat to watch two national champion quality teams play one another 

Yes it was.  Down 3 with 26 to play, Hope called timeout, ran the play they wanted with their Sr PG taking the shot, it just didn't go down.

Well played defensive game.


Calvin was 9-19 at the FT line and finished the game making 9 of their last 10.  They made them when it counted.  Also when it mattered Calvin was able to go inside a little better, the last 10 minutes it really felt like Hope had to work harder to score.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on January 13, 2013, 07:01:42 AM
Great synopsis OK.
Quote from: oldknight on January 12, 2013, 11:57:25 PM
With Hope leading 54-51 and five minutes left, Kussmaul was unjustly awarded her fourth foul sending her to the bench and Verkaik to the line. Meredith only spent two minutes off the floor but in that short time Calvin seized control of the game, scoring the next nine points. I suspect if Coach Morehouse had a do-over he would have just kept her in the game.
Not to beat a dead horse, but this again raises the question of whether it's better to maximize minutes from a key player with fouls (mindful that every minute and point counts the same) or to bench them to be assured of their availability in the last couple minutes ("when the game is on the line").  Both coaches seem to favor the latter, with Coach Ross benching Carissa VK for the last 11 minutes of the 1st half (when Hope made its move) once she had two fouls.  (She finished with 3 fouls, so if Hope had won, we might be discussing that choice.)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 13, 2013, 09:28:10 AM
Regardless of the details of the game, who you support, or even the outcome, this was a great event.  It was an exciting back and forth game that went down to the wire as it should have; both teams did an outstanding job representing their colleges; and nearly 3,000 fans came out to see a D3 women's hoops game.  Everyone involved should be proud!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on January 13, 2013, 03:32:18 PM
Agreed!  How cool was that?  Largest women's crowd in Van Noord history and the largest student section ever.  Great to see the support for women's basketball.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 13, 2013, 04:11:53 PM
Quote from: pointlem on January 13, 2013, 07:01:42 AM
Great synopsis OK.
Quote from: oldknight on January 12, 2013, 11:57:25 PM
With Hope leading 54-51 and five minutes left, Kussmaul was unjustly awarded her fourth foul sending her to the bench and Verkaik to the line. Meredith only spent two minutes off the floor but in that short time Calvin seized control of the game, scoring the next nine points. I suspect if Coach Morehouse had a do-over he would have just kept her in the game.
Not to beat a dead horse, but this again raises the question of whether it's better to maximize minutes from a key player with fouls (mindful that every minute and point counts the same) or to bench them to be assured of their availability in the last couple minutes ("when the game is on the line").  Both coaches seem to favor the latter, with Coach Ross benching Carissa VK for the last 11 minutes of the 1st half (when Hope made its move) once she had two fouls.  (She finished with 3 fouls, so if Hope had won, we might be discussing that choice.)

Having to take Kussmaul off the floor hurt because it followed having Liz Ellis off the floor for 2 minutes.  Hope ended up playing 4 of the last 7 minutes without 2 of their best players on the floor together.  Not ideal.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 14, 2013, 02:52:34 PM
Quote from: Calvinhoops on January 13, 2013, 03:32:18 PM
Agreed!  How cool was that?  Largest women's crowd in Van Noord history and the largest student section ever.  Great to see the support for women's basketball.
2,973 for the women's game, and 2,503 for the men's game.  Don't recall ever seeing this spread before.  Great idea having the women's game at 7:30 to attract the Hope followers.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 14, 2013, 04:34:07 PM
New top 25 out.  Calvin remains at #2, and Hope moves up to #3.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ziggy on January 14, 2013, 04:35:51 PM
Quote from: realist on January 14, 2013, 04:34:07 PM
New top 25 out.  Calvin remains at #2, and Hope moves up to #3.

Gotta give the voters credit for this. I always hate the automatic 'lose and move down' routine. It doesn't make sense with Michigan and, in particular, Duke this week in the DI men's poll but happened anyway.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 14, 2013, 04:37:23 PM
Hope did drop from 536 points last week to 525 this week, but because of Wash U, and St. Thomas both losing Hope moved up to 3rd..  Good for the MIAA.  I didn't think Hope deserved to drop much if at all, and this sure verifies that.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 14, 2013, 05:02:23 PM
Quote from: ziggy on January 14, 2013, 04:35:51 PM
Quote from: realist on January 14, 2013, 04:34:07 PM
New top 25 out.  Calvin remains at #2, and Hope moves up to #3.

Gotta give the voters credit for this. I always hate the automatic 'lose and move down' routine. It doesn't make sense with Michigan and, in particular, Duke this week in the DI men's poll but happened anyway.

I agree.  Since I sometimes holler about the pollsters, I also have to give them props for this.    Losing while playing the #2 team down to the wire on their home court shouldn't be a reason for the Dutch to fall, but that's what usually happens.  Voters clearly looked deeper than just the W/L column.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 14, 2013, 07:19:39 PM
The NCAA bracket for this area should be really "interesting" with DePauw, Hope and Calvin and figuring out where to place them.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 14, 2013, 07:20:18 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 14, 2013, 05:02:23 PM
Quote from: ziggy on January 14, 2013, 04:35:51 PM
Quote from: realist on January 14, 2013, 04:34:07 PM
New top 25 out.  Calvin remains at #2, and Hope moves up to #3.

Gotta give the voters credit for this. I always hate the automatic 'lose and move down' routine. It doesn't make sense with Michigan and, in particular, Duke this week in the DI men's poll but happened anyway.

I agree.  Since I sometimes holler about the pollsters, I also have to give them props for this.    Losing while playing the #2 team down to the wire on their home court shouldn't be a reason for the Dutch to fall, but that's what usually happens.  Voters clearly looked deeper than just the W/L column.

RB999 as much as I might agree with you, it also didn't hurt that last weeks #3, & #4 lost.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 14, 2013, 08:14:34 PM
Quote from: realist on January 14, 2013, 07:20:18 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 14, 2013, 05:02:23 PM
Quote from: ziggy on January 14, 2013, 04:35:51 PM
Quote from: realist on January 14, 2013, 04:34:07 PM
New top 25 out.  Calvin remains at #2, and Hope moves up to #3.

Gotta give the voters credit for this. I always hate the automatic 'lose and move down' routine. It doesn't make sense with Michigan and, in particular, Duke this week in the DI men's poll but happened anyway.

I agree.  Since I sometimes holler about the pollsters, I also have to give them props for this.    Losing while playing the #2 team down to the wire on their home court shouldn't be a reason for the Dutch to fall, but that's what usually happens.  Voters clearly looked deeper than just the W/L column.

RB999 as much as I might agree with you, it also didn't hurt that last weeks #3, & #4 lost.


Oh absolutely, but I still figured the pollsters would leapfrog Hope with undefeated Amherst and maybe Tufts.  It just seems that its usually an automatic reaction to drop a team that loses, by at least a few spots. I've watched both Amherst and Tufts play and in my opinion Hope and Calvin are better, maybe by more than a little, and for now at least the voters agree.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 14, 2013, 08:28:15 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 14, 2013, 08:14:34 PM
Quote from: realist on January 14, 2013, 07:20:18 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 14, 2013, 05:02:23 PM
Quote from: ziggy on January 14, 2013, 04:35:51 PM
Quote from: realist on January 14, 2013, 04:34:07 PM
New top 25 out.  Calvin remains at #2, and Hope moves up to #3.

Gotta give the voters credit for this. I always hate the automatic 'lose and move down' routine. It doesn't make sense with Michigan and, in particular, Duke this week in the DI men's poll but happened anyway.

I agree.  Since I sometimes holler about the pollsters, I also have to give them props for this.    Losing while playing the #2 team down to the wire on their home court shouldn't be a reason for the Dutch to fall, but that's what usually happens.  Voters clearly looked deeper than just the W/L column.

RB999 as much as I might agree with you, it also didn't hurt that last weeks #3, & #4 lost.


Oh absolutely, but I still figured the pollsters would leapfrog Hope with undefeated Amherst and maybe Tufts.  It just seems that its usually an automatic reaction to drop a team that loses, by at least a few spots. I've watched both Amherst and Tufts play and in my opinion Hope and Calvin are better, maybe by more than a little, and for now at least the voters agree.
We agree.  :)  One of the real advantages of having VIDEO of your games available is it allows individuals who can't see the games personally to get a sense of who/what the teams really are.  I have done this for several years now, and "trust me" Hope aned Calvin are really good.  No disrespect to Amherst or any other team, but t is really, really, really hard to beat "the tall, beautiful, Dutch girls".  ;) ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 14, 2013, 08:34:47 PM
I was predicting that Hope would rise despite the loss, but only to #4 (behind undefeated Amherst).

I note that DePauw's points indicate they got 24 firsts and a third - I wonder if the only voter to have Calvin #1 gave the #2 vote to Hope?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on January 14, 2013, 09:44:37 PM
Quote from: realist on January 14, 2013, 07:20:18 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 14, 2013, 05:02:23 PM
Quote from: ziggy on January 14, 2013, 04:35:51 PM
Quote from: realist on January 14, 2013, 04:34:07 PM
New top 25 out.  Calvin remains at #2, and Hope moves up to #3.

Gotta give the voters credit for this. I always hate the automatic 'lose and move down' routine. It doesn't make sense with Michigan and, in particular, Duke this wyeek in the DI men's poll but happened anyway.

I agree.  Since I sometimes holler about the pollsters, I also have to give them props for this.    Losing while playing the #2 team down to the wire on their home court shouldn't be a reason for the Dutch to fall, but that's what usually happens.  Voters clearly looked deeper than just the W/L column.

RB999 as much as I might agree with you, it also didn't hurt that last weeks #3, & #4 lost.
Actually, the #3, #4, and #5 teams fell.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on January 14, 2013, 10:56:02 PM
Quote from: sac on January 14, 2013, 07:19:39 PM
The NCAA bracket for this area should be really "interesting" with DePauw, Hope and Calvin and figuring out where to place them.

If only the NCAA would put Hope and Calvin on opposite sides of the tournament bracket, providing at least the chance of the ultimate Hope v. Calvin game (not to mention Final Four revenue max). 

Now back to reality . . . some games yet to play.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 14, 2013, 11:42:33 PM
Thanks for posting something -- that's a typo. DePauw has 23, Calvin has 2.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ziggy on January 15, 2013, 01:36:31 PM
Quote from: ziggy on January 14, 2013, 04:35:51 PM
Quote from: realist on January 14, 2013, 04:34:07 PM
New top 25 out.  Calvin remains at #2, and Hope moves up to #3.

Gotta give the voters credit for this. I always hate the automatic 'lose and move down' routine. It doesn't make sense with Michigan and, in particular, Duke this week in the DI men's poll but happened anyway.

I guess the losses by the other teams in or around the top five allowed this to happen and should be seen as more of an anomaly than a reason to praise the pollsters. That being said, they did get it right.

Going back to the men's DI example, consider this:
Michigan lost on the road to a team Duke beat at home.
Duke lost on the road to a team Michigan beat at home.
The new "number one" team lost to Duke.

At least in college basketball it all eventually gets settled on the court.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 15, 2013, 09:28:55 PM
Well, the WBCA/USA Today voters went the more "typical" route and leapfrogged Amherst and Tufts into the #3 and #4 spots, with Messiah #5 and Hope #6.  To me, this is an example of the more usual thinking where a loss almost always means a drop in the rankings, no matter the quality of the loss.  I think the D3hoops poll got it closer to right, but I'm probably biased.  Then again, based on the constitution of the WBCA polling committee.... :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on January 16, 2013, 02:56:09 PM
Carissa Verkaik needs 51 points to hit 2,000 for her career.  She will have a good chance to hit the mark at home against Rochester this weekend or Albion next Wednesday.  Although, I wouldn't put it past her to hit it tonight at Adrian as she did drop 46 on them a few years ago  :)

She also needs 53 rebounds for a career total of 1,000.  And also 11 blocks for a career total of 400.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 16, 2013, 07:29:14 PM
Calvin wins 85- 62.

CV 37 points, and 11 rebounds.

This should make CV the all time scoring leader in the MIAA.


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on January 17, 2013, 07:25:06 AM
Alma has founght its way into top four in MIAA.  Go Lady Scotts!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 19, 2013, 04:50:27 PM
Calvin beats Rochester 74- 54.

CV has 22 points, and 12 rebounds.  She is first Calvin player to reach the 2,000 point level in her career.  Should get the 1,000 rebounds in about 2 weeks. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sflzman on January 19, 2013, 08:17:51 PM
Alma now has a two game lead for the 4th spot. It's been a long time since the scots have been this high in the standings this late in the season
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 20, 2013, 09:32:24 AM
Quote from: sflzman on January 19, 2013, 08:17:51 PM
Alma now has a two game lead for the 4th spot. It's been a long time since the scots have been this high in the standings this late in the season

Nice job by the Scots, they seem much improved.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 21, 2013, 01:07:41 PM
CV POW for last weeek.  Kind of hard not to vote for someone with 59 points, and 23 rebounds in two games.   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 21, 2013, 01:53:38 PM
Quote from: realist on January 21, 2013, 01:07:41 PM
CV POY for last weeek.  Kind of hard not to vote for someone with 59 points, and 23 rebounds in two games.   

Obviously well deserved.  If ever there was a lock for POW, it was CV this week.  She hit lots of milestones, put up big numbers, and no one else in  the league could arguably rival her week.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on January 21, 2013, 02:13:29 PM
I like the Alma story!!!! Go Scots!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 21, 2013, 05:43:39 PM
Olivet is also doing some things:

7-2 MIAA record, with only losses to Calvin and Hope

12-6 overall record ... most wins since 2006-07 when they also had 12 in a 12-12 season ... 2005-06, they had 13 wins ... two more wins guarantees only second winning season in school history

The most conference wins in a season in school history is nine.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on January 22, 2013, 10:33:45 AM
You are right.  Olivet is a good story too. 
I still think there is a big gap between #1/2 and #3/4 in MIAA but you have to play each game, as proven last year by Hope at Trine.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on January 22, 2013, 11:14:56 AM
Holland Sentinel article on the Verkaik sisters:

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/sports/x1665864882/Verkaik-sisters-of-Holland-enjoying-one-and-only-season-together-with-Calvin-College-womens-basketball
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on January 22, 2013, 01:04:47 PM
Great Article, great kids!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sflzman on January 22, 2013, 03:30:46 PM
Quote from: bballforever on January 22, 2013, 10:33:45 AM
You are right.  Olivet is a good story too. 
I still think there is a big gap between #1/2 and #3/4 in MIAA but you have to play each game, as proven last year by Hope at Trine.

Really there's a gap between 1-2 and 3-8. I really don't think Olivet is that much better than everyone else, and Alma I don't think is either. But those two are finding ways to get W's so you can't complain about the result really...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on January 23, 2013, 07:42:53 AM
I agree.  Those girls work as hard and the #1 and #2 teams and just think how great it will be for them to be in MIAA tourney at end of season.  Just another experience they can tell their friends that they got to do as part of D3 bball.  It is just fun to have other teams in the mix rather than St. Marys and Albion.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on January 24, 2013, 12:20:08 AM
Interesting moment in the second half of the Hope v Kalamazoo game tonight:

After a Kalamazoo miss that bounced over the backboard, Hope was ready to inbound and the Hornets called a timeout.  Hope had 5 subs enter the game after the timeout.  A Kalamazoo player stepped out of bounds to inbound the ball...and the ref gave her the ball and blew his whistle to resume play.  Kalamazoo inbounded, brought the ball to the other end of the court--in front of the Hope bench--where Hope defended them well, but not well enough.  A Kalamazoo player put up a shot, which found the net for 2 points.  Hope then inbounded the ball, brought the ball across mid court, and set up the offense.  That's when Brittany Berry picked up her dribble, turned to the ref and, half chuckling, said something like "That's not our basket.". Right you are, Ms. Berry!

So now what?  After about five minutes of sorting it all out, the refs, rightly, instructed the scorer to subtract 2 from the Hornets score, and add 2 to Hope's score, then awarded possession to Kalamazoo under the Hope basket.

I was somewhat distracted for most of this, looking for livestats from other games, but when I finally caught up, I wasn't sure what part was more comical.  The Kalamazoo player "stealing the deal"?  The ref falling for it?  The Hope players defending the wrong hoop?  A visiting team working so hard to put points on the board for their host (thank you)?  The host then beginning to return the favor?  Maybe it was Coach Mo's 5-minute face-palm while the clowns in stripes sorted out the mess.

I usually find something amusing about these Hope/Kalamazoo mismatches of recent years...did not see this one coming.

:o ??? ::)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on January 24, 2013, 01:40:27 PM
The Trine win mixes it up a bit.   :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on January 24, 2013, 01:51:31 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on January 24, 2013, 12:20:08 AM
Interesting moment in the second half of the Hope v Kalamazoo game tonight:

After a Kalamazoo miss that bounced over the backboard, Hope was ready to inbound and the Hornets called a timeout.  Hope had 5 subs enter the game after the timeout.  A Kalamazoo player stepped out of bounds to inbound the ball...and the ref gave her the ball and blew his whistle to resume play.  Kalamazoo inbounded, brought the ball to the other end of the court--in front of the Hope bench--where Hope defended them well, but not well enough.  A Kalamazoo player put up a shot, which found the net for 2 points.  Hope then inbounded the ball, brought the ball across mid court, and set up the offense.  That's when Brittany Berry picked up her dribble, turned to the ref and, half chuckling, said something like "That's not our basket.". Right you are, Ms. Berry!

So now what?  After about five minutes of sorting it all out, the refs, rightly, instructed the scorer to subtract 2 from the Hornets score, and add 2 to Hope's score, then awarded possession to Kalamazoo under the Hope basket.

I was somewhat distracted for most of this, looking for livestats from other games, but when I finally caught up, I wasn't sure what part was more comical.  The Kalamazoo player "stealing the deal"?  The ref falling for it?  The Hope players defending the wrong hoop?  A visiting team working so hard to put points on the board for their host (thank you)?  The host then beginning to return the favor?  Maybe it was Coach Mo's 5-minute face-palm while the clowns in stripes sorted out the mess.

I usually find something amusing about these Hope/Kalamazoo mismatches of recent years...did not see this one coming.

:o ??? ::)
This disposition seems inconsistent.  If they had awarded two points to Kalamazoo, then reversed it, why didn't they go further back and call a back court violation on Kalamazoo?  It seems like in this situation they should just restart play at the point that they screwed it up, if both coaches agree.  Was it the same ref as called the 9 1/2 yard first down?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on January 24, 2013, 05:40:29 PM
northb-

I felt the same as you, they should just have a "do-over" starting where they left off before the Kalamazoo timeout.  You can read another account, and plenty of discussion of the events, on the MIAA men's board here: http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4596.36180 (and some on the previous page).  In short, the refs did what they could according to the rules available to apply to this situation.  The only thing they could really reverse was who got the points for the basket, and who should then have possession of the ball. 

We've all seen refs blow a call, but never have I seen such incompetence, and sustained for so long, until a player in posession of the ball stops and points out the incredible error.  Back to your point, I think everyone in the arena last night would have agreed if the clock was turned back, score was reset, and posession given to the correct team.  But then, how does anyone account for the ways of an NCAA DIII basketball referee?    :-\
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on January 24, 2013, 09:48:51 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on January 24, 2013, 05:40:29 PM
northb-

I felt the same as you, they should just have a "do-over" starting where they left off before the Kalamazoo timeout.  You can read another account, and plenty of discussion of the events, on the MIAA men's board here: http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4596.36180 (and some on the previous page).  In short, the refs did what they could according to the rules available to apply to this situation.  The only thing they could really reverse was who got the points for the basket, and who should then have possession of the ball. 

We've all seen refs blow a call, but never have I seen such incompetence, and sustained for so long, until a player in posession of the ball stops and points out the incredible error.  Back to your point, I think everyone in the arena last night would have agreed if the clock was turned back, score was reset, and posession given to the correct team.  But then, how does anyone account for the ways of an NCAA DIII basketball referee?    :-\
I agree.  It reminds me of a game in which Jeremy Veenstra had the ball, got jostled around and fell to the ground, and was called for double dribble, as he continued to dribble the ball.  He kust looked at the ref, then at the ball he was still dribbling, then back at the ref.  Ref had to keep the call as it was...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 25, 2013, 03:23:13 PM
Hope's league opponent scoring avg of 43.9 is just .6 above the record set by Adrian in 1977, pretty much pre-everything.

It will be difficult for Hope to get below that number with a game with Calvin left. But that 43.9 is 5 points lower than the next lowest in the past decade.

Outside of Calvin the most points anyone in the MIAA has scored against them is 44.



For the season they have a real shot at finishing with double the number of offensive rebounds of their opponents.  One-half the number of turnovers, and are already double the number of opponent steals.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 27, 2013, 04:09:41 PM
CV is 13 rebounds away from reaching the 1,000 rebound mark.  She should reach it during one of this weeks games. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on January 28, 2013, 08:04:03 AM
The "top" ranked teams that Calvin beat early are losing and fading fast
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on January 28, 2013, 08:22:27 AM
Quote from: bballforever on January 28, 2013, 08:04:03 AM
The "top" ranked teams that Calvin beat early are losing and fading fast

I think the recent slide by St. Thomas is a little surprising but a little expected.  Their season definitely is not turning out the way they expected it to.  All-American Taylor Young sat out quite a few games with and injury early on and their starting center is out for the year with a foot injury suffered late in the game against Calvin.  Steven's Point is still having a good season with a big win in their conference this weekend.  The WIAC is much harder than the MIAA so you always expect the top teams in that conference to drop a few.  Thomas More hasn't lost since their loss to Calvin and are ranked #10, so I'd say they are still doing well.

So I wouldn't necessarily say they are "fading fast".
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 28, 2013, 08:39:51 AM
Quote from: bballfan13 on January 28, 2013, 08:22:27 AM
Quote from: bballforever on January 28, 2013, 08:04:03 AM
The "top" ranked teams that Calvin beat early are losing and fading fast

I think the recent slide by St. Thomas is a little surprising but a little expected.  Their season definitely is not turning out the way they expected it to.  All-American Taylor Young sat out quite a few games with and injury early on and their starting center is out for the year with a foot injury suffered late in the game against Calvin.  Steven's Point is still having a good season with a big win in their conference this weekend.  The WIAC is much harder than the MIAA so you always expect the top teams in that conference to drop a few.  Thomas More hasn't lost since their loss to Calvin and are ranked #10, so I'd say they are still doing well.

So I wouldn't necessarily say they are "fading fast".

I would agree.  According to Massey, St. Thomas has played the 10th toughest schedule in the country so a loss here or there isn't a big slide in my book.  Thomas More is still rated 19th by Massey, nothing to sneeze at.  And as others have pointed out, Calvin played that early schedule without Julie Hilbrands, a returning 1st team all-MIAA player.  Calvin is much stronger now.  Their ranking is well deserved.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on January 28, 2013, 09:44:00 AM
Quote from: bballforever on January 28, 2013, 08:04:03 AM
The "top" ranked teams that Calvin beat early are losing and fading fast

The St. Thomas center was a key piece for them.  Very athletic and thick.  She pushed CV around with her body and made it tough on her(as tough as you can make it on her :))  Wisc St. Pt probably has the best or second best(CV) player in the country in Barber.  And if you saw the game, Thomas More is the real deal.  Can't believe they aren't higher in the rankings.  They only lost to Calvin in OT after Calvin hit a three at the buzzer of regulation to tie it.  They remind me of Hope with better shooters.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on January 28, 2013, 01:00:02 PM
Love the anology..........."Thomas Moor reminds you of Hope with better shooters"  Hope does struggle to shoot but when you hold your opponents to <40 points per game you don't have to shoot the ball extremenly well to still win. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 28, 2013, 01:29:39 PM
Quote from: bballforever on January 28, 2013, 01:00:02 PM
Love the anology..........."Thomas Moor reminds you of Hope with better shooters"  Hope does struggle to shoot but when you hold your opponents to <40 points per game you don't have to shoot the ball extremenly well to still win. 

Seems like Hope always struggles to shoot at Calvin and that may sway perception.  The season shooting percentage is less than 2 points different in both FG and 3pt between Hope and TM.

DePauw 45% and Calvin 47% are the real exceptions from a FG % standpoint.  The rest of the top teams are pretty close; Hope 41%, Amherst 40%, Ohio Northern 44%, Wash U 41%, Tufts 39%, etc.

But getting a lot more shots than the opponent can do wonders.  The Hope defense has led to one of the best turnover margins in the country (#4), and together with a huge offensive rebounding margin (86% higher than opponents) has resulted in Hope having an incredible 40% more shot attempts than their opponents this season (1221 to 869).

Still, when the Flying Dutch lose you can usually see a FG% on the 30% range or lower.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on January 28, 2013, 01:41:06 PM
I didn't mean it as a put down.  Thomas More has hit 156 threes at a .341 clip, Hope has hit 114 at a .328 clip.   TM also shoots 42.6 compared to 40.8 fg % do Hope.    Close but better.  Calvin is better than both with a 46.9 fg% and a 36.7% 3pt %.  My real point is that Thomas More is really good.  We already know Hope is!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 28, 2013, 01:48:25 PM
Understood.  I didn't take it as a put-down, it just prompted me to look at the numbers and they were quite interesting.  It was my impression that Hope doesn't shoot that well but was surprised to find they were near the middle among most of the top teams.  The eye opener was how well Calvin shoots.  Not a real surprise, but seeing the numbers really highlights how well they shoot it. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 29, 2013, 01:28:00 PM
The FG% numbers get even more interesting when you take it down to the individual player level.  It really helps Calvin that their high scorer is at .588.
Hope's top FG% is .489 for players seeing +10 mpg.
Calvin has a player coming off the bench shooting .563.
The hard part is getting the ball in your best shooters hands as often as you can.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldtimer1937 on January 30, 2013, 09:02:32 PM
Wow,Calvin up 50plus and hiking up 3 after 3 against kalamazoo.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 30, 2013, 09:12:52 PM
Hope 75-29 over Adrian.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on January 30, 2013, 10:03:58 PM
Quote from: oldtimer1937 on January 12, 2013, 08:50:16 AM
OK, I`m awake now! Sorry Calvin faithful DEFENSE wins championships Hope 65  Calvin 55

Good to have you back!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 31, 2013, 01:29:00 AM
Stole this from miaa.org

   
Olivet's Campbell Breaks MIAA Assist Record

Olivet guard Kelsey Campbell broke the MIAA single-game assist record in women's basketball Wednesday as she dished out 16 assists in the Comets' 79-66 victory over Alma at the Cutler Event Center.

Campbell, a junior from Olivet (Olivet HS), broke the previous single-game mark of 15 that had been set by Albion's Autumn Charnley in a January 2007 game against Hope. She now leads the MIAA in assists with 73 in 12 conference games for a 6.1 average per contest.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on January 31, 2013, 08:46:46 AM
Congrats to Kelsey and Olivet, both having great seasons!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 02, 2013, 10:23:08 AM
Just got an e-mail advising Sat's game versus Trine has been postponed.  No new date yet.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 02, 2013, 12:09:11 PM
The Calvin vs Trine game will be played Monday at 7:30pm now.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sflzman on February 02, 2013, 09:38:49 PM
Wanted to mention that Alma wore the jerseys from that the 1982 national championship team wore today...I think all of the magic has worn out  ;) ;D

All joking aside though. Hope is a very good team. It will be interesting to see how the season series against Calvin ends up in 3 games.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 02, 2013, 11:29:39 PM
Olivet's Kelsey Campbell is a shoe-in for player of the week.  Kelsey followed up her record breaking 16 assist night on Wed. with Saturday's stat line of 10 points, 15 rebounds and 11 assists.

26 assists for the week and a triple-double.

This might be the first triple-double in league history? ? ?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 03, 2013, 07:50:36 AM
Quote from: sflzman on February 02, 2013, 09:38:49 PM
Wanted to mention that Alma wore the jerseys from that the 1982 national championship team wore today...I think all of the magic has worn out  ;) ;D

All joking aside though. Hope is a very good team. It will be interesting to see how the season series against Calvin ends up in 3 games.

Alma did some good things and played hard, but Hope is just too big and too deep.

Looking forward to the next matchup with Calvin.  I think Calvin maybe has the best starting five in the nation, but also think Hope is deeper with no one averaging more than 22 mpg, 9 players averaging at least 12 mpg, and all 16 players getting at least 5 mpg.  Not ready to predict the next matchup yet, Hope has to get by Olivet next and Olivet is playing really well lately.

The Flying Dutch are now leading the nation in both scoring defense and scoring margin and are among the national leaders in turnover margin, steals, rebounding margin and FT %.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on February 03, 2013, 10:51:15 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 03, 2013, 07:50:36 AM
Quote from: sflzman on February 02, 2013, 09:38:49 PM
Wanted to mention that Alma wore the jerseys from that the 1982 national championship team wore today...I think all of the magic has worn out  ;) ;D

All joking aside though. Hope is a very good team. It will be interesting to see how the season series against Calvin ends up in 3 games.

Alma did some good things and played hard, but Hope is just too big and too deep.

Looking forward to the next matchup with Calvin.  I think Calvin maybe has the best starting five in the nation, but also think Hope is deeper with no one averaging more than 22 mpg, 9 players averaging at least 12 mpg, and all 16 players getting at least 5 mpg.  Not ready to predict the next matchup yet, Hope has to get by Olivet next and Olivet is playing really well lately.

The Flying Dutch are now leading the nation in both scoring defense and scoring margin and are among the national leaders in turnover margin, steals, rebounding margin and FT %.
It is pretty close actually...Calvin has 10 girls getting over ten minutes and all players getting over 7 minutes per game!  CV only plays 25mpg.  With that said, beating Hope at Hope is never an easy task.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sflzman on February 03, 2013, 11:00:47 AM
Quote from: sac on February 02, 2013, 11:29:39 PM
Olivet's Kelsey Campbell is a shoe-in for player of the week.  Kelsey followed up her record breaking 16 assist night on Wed. with Saturday's stat line of 10 points, 15 rebounds and 11 assists.

26 assists for the week and a triple-double.

This might be the first triple-double in league history? ? ?

Not to be that one that corrects little mistakes. But 16+11 is 27  ::)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on February 03, 2013, 11:30:35 AM
She does everything well except the 100+ turnovers.   If she tightens up that stat I think Olivet may compete with Hope and Calvin next year.  Olivet has really turned the corner.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 03, 2013, 11:42:10 AM
Quote from: Calvinhoops on February 03, 2013, 10:51:15 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 03, 2013, 07:50:36 AM
Quote from: sflzman on February 02, 2013, 09:38:49 PM
Wanted to mention that Alma wore the jerseys from that the 1982 national championship team wore today...I think all of the magic has worn out  ;) ;D

All joking aside though. Hope is a very good team. It will be interesting to see how the season series against Calvin ends up in 3 games.

Alma did some good things and played hard, but Hope is just too big and too deep.

Looking forward to the next matchup with Calvin.  I think Calvin maybe has the best starting five in the nation, but also think Hope is deeper with no one averaging more than 22 mpg, 9 players averaging at least 12 mpg, and all 16 players getting at least 5 mpg.  Not ready to predict the next matchup yet, Hope has to get by Olivet next and Olivet is playing really well lately.

The Flying Dutch are now leading the nation in both scoring defense and scoring margin and are among the national leaders in turnover margin, steals, rebounding margin and FT %.
It is pretty close actually...Calvin has 10 girls getting over ten minutes and all players getting over 7 minutes per game!  CV only plays 25mpg.  With that said, beating Hope at Hope is never an easy task.

Yes, distribution of minutes probably wasn't the best way to make my point; both teams have the luxury to give lots of players good minutes and Hope has a couple of extra on their roster that still get decent minutes.  I mainly meant that, in my opinion, t Calvin is probably stronger 1 through 5 but that Hope may be better 6 through 10.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on February 03, 2013, 12:04:46 PM
Interesting comparison from the first game:  Hopes second five players played 70 minutes, with 20 pts, 9 rebounds, 4 assists and Calvin's second five played 76 minutes, with 23 pts, 13 rebounds, 3 assists.   Comparatively speaking I don't think Morehouse likes seeing Hilbrands, Irwin and Marsh any more than Ross likes seeing Llorens, Mcafee and Kelly!  Very close teams.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 03, 2013, 05:41:52 PM
First regional rankings come out Wednesday, here's what the Great Lakes regional reps have to sort through.

(the # is D3hoops.com poll ranking which has no bearing on regional ranking)

(record, in-region record) --giving Calvin the win for Monday nights game with Trine
#1 DePauw  22-0, 17-0
#2 Calvin 20-1, 15-0
#3 Hope 20-1, 19-1
#6 Ohio Northern 20-1, 19-0
#9 Thomas More 20-1, 20-1
-----------------------------
Transylvania 16-5, 16-4
Franklin 17-4, 15-4
Olivet 15-7, 12-3
Mt. Union 17-4, 16-4


I think the women get to rank 7 teams because the Heartland Conference is in the Great Lakes Region.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 04, 2013, 06:00:58 PM
Last year the GL region only ranked 6 teams, not sure if that has change this year.  I will rank 7 just in case.  My #6 and #7 are tricky.  Also, the SOS numbers are provided by D3hoops

Here's what I think the rankings will look like come Wednesday (these are current stats, so does not include Calvin vs. Trine game tonight):










TeamIn Region RecordOverall RecordSOSRecord Vs. Ranked Opp
Ohio Northern19-020-1.5491-0
Depauw17-022-0.5270-0
Calvin14-018-1.4892-0
Thomas More20-120-1.5080-1
Hope19-120-1.4970-1
La Roche17-218-2.4720-0
Mount Union16-417-4.5430-1

I had some trouble with what to do with La Roche and Mount Union.  Mount Union has a much tougher SOS but also 2 more in region losses.  La Roche's SOS is terrible, so it will be interesting to see what the committee does.  I also think that Thomas More and Hope could switch but gave it to Thomas More with the better SOS.

Feel free to critique    :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 04, 2013, 11:25:49 PM
Geez I didn't even realize LaRoche was in the GL region.  How stupid to have the LaRoche and Pitt-Bradford women in this region but not the men.


also just want to clarify I wasn't ranking the teams, just listing them and their 'measurements'.  I really have no idea how to sort through that mess.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 05, 2013, 09:45:21 AM
Quote from: sac on February 04, 2013, 11:25:49 PM
Geez I didn't even realize LaRoche was in the GL region.  How stupid to have the LaRoche and Pitt-Bradford women in this region but not the men.


also just want to clarify I wasn't ranking the teams, just listing them and their 'measurements'.  I really have no idea how to sort through that mess.

Gotta love the NCAA :-)

On my list I also have Olivet, Transylvania, Franklin, Hoover, and St. Vincent just outside the regional rankings.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 05, 2013, 09:46:49 AM
Congratulations to Carissa Verkaik on collecting her 1,000th career rebound last night!  She now has 1,001 for her career.  She trails Lisa Winkle by 33 (1,034) for the career record at Calvin. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on February 06, 2013, 12:07:47 PM
When do the regional rankings come out and where do you find them?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 06, 2013, 12:11:38 PM
Quote from: Calvinhoops on February 06, 2013, 12:07:47 PM
When do the regional rankings come out and where do you find them?


I heard they come out this week, maybe today, and they can be found at http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-women/d3/regional_rankings
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on February 06, 2013, 12:49:41 PM
Thank you!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 06, 2013, 01:39:35 PM
Olivet plays at Hope tonight, the first time it was a 12 point win for Hope.   For 30 minutes of that game it was really pretty even, an 18-4 run to start the 2nd half ended up being the difference.  Olivet was without 6-4 C Stephanie Lang against both Hope and Calvin the first time.

Should be interesting if it makes a difference, if any, vs Hope and Calvin this time.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 06, 2013, 01:54:21 PM
Quote from: sac on February 06, 2013, 01:39:35 PM
Olivet plays at Hope tonight, the first time it was a 12 point win for Hope.   For 30 minutes of that game it was really pretty even, an 18-4 run to start the 2nd half ended up being the difference.  Olivet was without 6-4 C Stephanie Lang against both Hope and Calvin the first time.

Should be interesting if it makes a difference, if any, vs Hope and Calvin this time.

Olivet looks dangerous and has been playing well.  Then again, they lost at home to Trine a couple weeks ago and Lang was playing then too.  Go figure.

The first game was at Olivet and the Dutch had one of their bad shooting nights, 28% FG and 20% 3pt.  I don't see that happening in tonight's game at Devos.  I also think Hope has stepped up the defense and rebounding since that December meeting.  It won't be easy, but I see a 15 pt. Dutch win.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 06, 2013, 06:40:03 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 06, 2013, 12:11:38 PM
Quote from: Calvinhoops on February 06, 2013, 12:07:47 PM
When do the regional rankings come out and where do you find them?


I heard they come out this week, maybe today, and they can be found at http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-women/d3/regional_rankings

Correct, they are supposed to be out today. They usually post them in the late afternoon on Wednesday but seem to be late today. If you follow D3Hoops on twitter you will know right when they come out. They are surprised they are so late as well.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 06, 2013, 08:08:12 PM
Flying Dutch up 42-23 over the Comets at the half.  Strangely, Olivet is shooting 50% but Hope has many more attempts due to +7 on the offensive boards and 18 Olivet turnovers.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on February 06, 2013, 09:45:25 PM
Hope over Olivet 74-47  .  Biggest lead was 33 points with  07:37  left in the game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 06, 2013, 10:07:42 PM
Calvin 84-54 St. Marys
Calvin had 13 players with at least 10 minutes.  12 of the 13 scored.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 06, 2013, 10:31:06 PM
Regional rankings are out. For the Great Lakes region:

1. Depauw
2. Ohio Northern
3. Calvin
4. Thomas More
5. Hope
6. La Roche
7. Mount Union
8. Otterbein
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 07, 2013, 06:19:52 AM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 06, 2013, 10:31:06 PM
Regional rankings are out. For the Great Lakes region:

1. Depauw
2. Ohio Northern
3. Calvin
4. Thomas More
5. Hope
6. La Roche
7. Mount Union
8. Otterbein

Iluustrates how strong the region is and how screwy the NCAA regional rankings are.  Hope is #4 nationally in both polls and only manages #5 in its own region?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on February 07, 2013, 07:35:38 AM
Morning's thoughts, there are four teams tied for that last playoff spot.  Is that fun or what?  Three games lefr for most so fate should be in their hands, good luck!!

Berry takes over as best three point shooter in conference, she does alot of other stuff too...  Not just a shooter, so congrats to her on being back in the conference and having a good year.

Hope/Calvin rematch is only a week away and i am excited.  Both teams seem to be playing well, although it is hard to say with the lack of competition in their schedules lately.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 07, 2013, 08:33:21 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 07, 2013, 06:19:52 AM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 06, 2013, 10:31:06 PM
Regional rankings are out. For the Great Lakes region:

1. Depauw
2. Ohio Northern
3. Calvin
4. Thomas More
5. Hope
6. La Roche
7. Mount Union
8. Otterbein

Iluustrates how strong the region is and how screwy the NCAA regional rankings are.  Hope is #4 nationally in both polls and only manages #5 in its own region?

Agree that the region is very strong, quite possibly the strongest in the nation right now.  The NCAA does not take into account the national polls though for regional rankings.  What is hurting Hope (and Calvin for that matter) is the lower SOS.  Unfortunately the MIAA does not present a great SOS for Hope and Calvin.  But I don't think we'll have to worry about both Calvin and Hope making the tournament if they both make it to the MIAA championship game.  As for hosting the first weekend, it may be more of a challenge for both to do that due to the strong region.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 07, 2013, 09:25:46 AM
Quote from: bballforever on February 07, 2013, 07:35:38 AM
Morning's thoughts, there are four teams tied for that last playoff spot.  Is that fun or what?  Three games lefr for most so fate should be in their hands, good luck!!


Probably not that fun when your reward is to play Hope or Calvin. ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on February 07, 2013, 10:05:10 AM
Good point, sac!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on February 07, 2013, 12:17:01 PM
This will be a pairing nightmare for the NCAA.  I'm afraid the best teams are going to meet very early.  Such a bummer.  I don't go for the theory that you have to play everyone anyway.  You earn the right to an easier path...oh we'll, the economics is what it is!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on February 07, 2013, 12:26:40 PM
Looking at the schedule, I would predict that Adrian and Trine will go 2-1 and Albion and Alma will go 1-2.   If that's the case they would tie for fourth AND they split the season series!  Does anyone know what the tie breaker would be?  Coin flip, point differential, etc?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 07, 2013, 02:43:08 PM
If two teams are tied and they split the head-head, then you look at their records against each of the other teams, starting at #1.  Since they would both be 0-2 against Hope & Calvin, then it would come down to their records against Olivet - which would give Trine the tie-breaker since they went 1-1 against the Comets while Adrian was 0-2.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on February 07, 2013, 02:55:43 PM
Thanks for the info.  Of course I could be off on my predictions, but I will stick with Trine as the favorite for the fourth spot.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on February 08, 2013, 11:36:13 AM
Didn't Calvin and Hope flip a coin a couple years ago to determine who would host MIAA tourney?  Mabybe that was becuase they had identical recods against the others?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 08, 2013, 12:40:53 PM
Quote from: bballforever on February 08, 2013, 11:36:13 AM
Didn't Calvin and Hope flip a coin a couple years ago to determine who would host MIAA tourney?  Mabybe that was becuase they had identical recods against the others?

Yes this happened during the 2010-2011 season.  Calvin and Hope split with each other during the regular season and then beat everyone else in the conference so it came down to a coin flip.  The same thing will happen this year if they both continue to win and then Hope beats Calvin at Hope next Saturday.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 08, 2013, 03:13:53 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 08, 2013, 12:40:53 PM
Quote from: bballforever on February 08, 2013, 11:36:13 AM
Didn't Calvin and Hope flip a coin a couple years ago to determine who would host MIAA tourney?  Mabybe that was becuase they had identical recods against the others?

Yes this happened during the 2010-2011 season.  Calvin and Hope split with each other during the regular season and then beat everyone else in the conference so it came down to a coin flip.  The same thing will happen this year if they both continue to win and then Hope beats Calvin at Hope next Saturday.

I thought the league changed its tie-breakers after that?  I might be wrong and just wishing they had.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 08, 2013, 07:53:22 PM
Quote from: sac on February 08, 2013, 03:13:53 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 08, 2013, 12:40:53 PM
Quote from: bballforever on February 08, 2013, 11:36:13 AM
Didn't Calvin and Hope flip a coin a couple years ago to determine who would host MIAA tourney?  Mabybe that was becuase they had identical recods against the others?

Yes this happened during the 2010-2011 season.  Calvin and Hope split with each other during the regular season and then beat everyone else in the conference so it came down to a coin flip.  The same thing will happen this year if they both continue to win and then Hope beats Calvin at Hope next Saturday.

I thought the league changed its tie-breakers after that?  I might be wrong and just wishing they had.
How would you have the league settle or decide a tie?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 08, 2013, 11:58:52 PM
Quote from: realist on February 08, 2013, 07:53:22 PM
Quote from: sac on February 08, 2013, 03:13:53 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 08, 2013, 12:40:53 PM
Quote from: bballforever on February 08, 2013, 11:36:13 AM
Didn't Calvin and Hope flip a coin a couple years ago to determine who would host MIAA tourney?  Mabybe that was becuase they had identical recods against the others?

Yes this happened during the 2010-2011 season.  Calvin and Hope split with each other during the regular season and then beat everyone else in the conference so it came down to a coin flip.  The same thing will happen this year if they both continue to win and then Hope beats Calvin at Hope next Saturday.

I thought the league changed its tie-breakers after that?  I might be wrong and just wishing they had.
How would you have the league settle or decide a tie?

Anything that avoids a cointoss


It was passed on to me the tie-breaker is still a coin-toss if it can't be decided by comparing league results.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on February 09, 2013, 06:58:15 AM
Quote from: sac on February 08, 2013, 11:58:52 PM
Quote from: realist on February 08, 2013, 07:53:22 PM
Quote from: sac on February 08, 2013, 03:13:53 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 08, 2013, 12:40:53 PM
Quote from: bballforever on February 08, 2013, 11:36:13 AM
Didn't Calvin and Hope flip a coin a couple years ago to determine who would host MIAA tourney?  Mabybe that was becuase they had identical recods against the others?

Yes this happened during the 2010-2011 season.  Calvin and Hope split with each other during the regular season and then beat everyone else in the conference so it came down to a coin flip.  The same thing will happen this year if they both continue to win and then Hope beats Calvin at Hope next Saturday.

I thought the league changed its tie-breakers after that?  I might be wrong and just wishing they had.
How would you have the league settle or decide a tie?

Anything that avoids a cointoss


It was passed on to me the tie-breaker is still a coin-toss if it can't be decided by comparing league results.
I would get concerned that you would have to start going to something like point totals, and then you get into running up the score for insurance on such a scenario, and noone wants that.  I'd rather a coin toss than something like that.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 09, 2013, 11:20:05 AM

It would be much more difficult to end up with a coin toss on the men's side, for some reason the women haven't adopted the same tie-breakers.



Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 09, 2013, 12:48:42 PM
What's the difference between the men and women's tiebreakers?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 09, 2013, 04:34:36 PM
Calvin 87 Olivet 61.  CV with 32 pts., and 8 rebounds.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 09, 2013, 07:16:20 PM
Quote from: realist on February 09, 2013, 04:34:36 PM
Calvin 87 Olivet 61.  CV with 32 pts., and 8 rebounds.

8 blocks as well.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 09, 2013, 11:21:05 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 09, 2013, 12:48:42 PM
What's the difference between the men and women's tiebreakers?

they use road victories and eventually it gets down to in-region wins.  It would be very difficult to not break a tie using the men's criteria.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 10, 2013, 04:08:51 PM
Hope and Calvin have clinched home court in the MIAA Tournament.
Olivet has clinched the 3rd spot

4th spot between these 6-8 teams.....

Adrian       @Calvin, Alma
Alma         Trine, @Adrian
Trine         @Alma, Kzoo

Albion's not out of it but 1 game back

Albion       @Kzoo, Olivet

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on February 10, 2013, 06:44:07 PM
Amherst lost today....Hope should move up to #3...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 10, 2013, 07:04:21 PM
Quote from: Calvinhoops on February 10, 2013, 06:44:07 PM
Amherst lost today....Hope should move up to #3...


Deservedly so, I think.  I've watched Amherst a couple times and think Calvin and Hope are better by a reasonable margin.  Certainly deeper.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 12, 2013, 09:44:32 AM
Congratulations to Carissa Verkaik on being named to the Team of the Week:  http://d3hoops.com/awards/tow/2012-13/week12
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 12, 2013, 01:42:24 PM
Top 25

1.  DePauw
2.  Calvin
3.  Hope
4.  Ohio Northern

....same region. :o
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 12, 2013, 01:56:34 PM
Quote from: sac on February 12, 2013, 01:42:24 PM
Top 25

1.  DePauw
2.  Calvin
3.  Hope
4.  Ohio Northern

....same region. :o

Well, I would assume all are shoo-ins for an NCAA tournament spot.  But just in case, here's to hoping for no upsets in conference tournaments that muddy the waters for at-large bids.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 12, 2013, 02:32:06 PM
More importantly, it would be nice if they were somehow separated in the bracket ...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 12, 2013, 03:59:09 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 12, 2013, 02:32:06 PM
More importantly, it would be nice if they were somehow separated in the bracket ...

Absolutely!  Do they ever try to make that happen?  Or is the focus on minimizing travel even if that means early round meetings of top teams?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 12, 2013, 04:04:11 PM
It's hard to really say how much they try. I would say they occasionally succeed, but not often enough.

The pendulum has swung backward on this. Once upon a time, the women's committee was the forward-thinking one and produced the most innovative brackets in Division III basketball, but over the past couple of years, it has been the men's committee.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 12, 2013, 04:18:34 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 12, 2013, 03:59:09 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 12, 2013, 02:32:06 PM
More importantly, it would be nice if they were somehow separated in the bracket ...

Absolutely!  Do they ever try to make that happen?  Or is the focus on minimizing travel even if that means early round meetings of top teams?

Two years ago they put Hope, DePauw and Denison in the same pod......and then bussed in WashU from the Central.

That was #4, #8, #10 and #12 in the poll leading into the tournament.

I don't remember what the GL rankings were that year but I guess they "separated"  Thomas More and Calvin away from Hope, DePauw and Denison by giving Calvin and Thomas More pods of their own, which were also not easy.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 12, 2013, 04:41:47 PM
Quote from: sac on February 12, 2013, 04:18:34 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 12, 2013, 03:59:09 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 12, 2013, 02:32:06 PM
More importantly, it would be nice if they were somehow separated in the bracket ...

Absolutely!  Do they ever try to make that happen?  Or is the focus on minimizing travel even if that means early round meetings of top teams?

Two years ago they put Hope, DePauw and Denison in the same pod......and then bussed in WashU from the Central.

That was #4, #8, #10 and #12 in the poll leading into the tournament.

I don't remember what the GL rankings were that year but I guess they "separated"  Thomas More and Calvin away from Hope, DePauw and Denison by giving Calvin and Thomas More pods of their own, which were also not easy.

I really hope they do a better job this year in the separation of these teams.  We are also forgetting to mention Thomas More is #8 in the country and is in the GL region as well.

I have no idea how the NCAA national committee puts the bracket together once they have received the rankings from the regional committee's.  Maybe someone can shed some light on that. 

But I think we also need to keep in mind that the NCAA does not look at the D3Hoops.com poll.  Yes, in my opinion (and the poll voters), the GL region this year is easily the strongest, but depending on how the NCAA ranks the teams nationally they may see it differently.  I agree with how the D3Hoops poll looks right now and hopefully the NCAA will try and keep these teams as far apart as they possibly can.  Time will tell.  Here's to hoping though  ;D

As for the situation 2 years ago with the 'pod of death' at Hope.  Yes, those teams were all highly ranked in the D3Hoops poll but regionally they were not all ranked that high.  I do not agree with what the NCAA did but you might be able to see some of their logic as Hope was #3 in the GL region, Denison was #4, and DePauw was #6.  Wash U. was #6 in their region (Central).

It was definitely an interesting situation but you also must keep in mind that Hope was 3rd in the GL region and was still hosting, that is not something you see a ton of I believe (I may be wrong here).  In the past we have seen 1 maybe 2 3rd ranked regional teams host.  I definitely hope that changes this year if one region, the GL region, so loaded.  Maybe it's possibly to see 4 hosts from the GL this year, but I wouldn't bank on it.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 12, 2013, 09:19:04 PM
One must be careful what they ask for.  If memory serves me correctly  last year Calvin got moved to the MW, and their reward was #1 Chicago, and the next night the eventual champion St. Thomas.  This after beating WLU, and UWSP at the VNA.
I still recall 2000 when Calvin's mens team was in a pod with them  @ 1,  #3 Wooster,  #4 Mc Murry, and Marysville which beat the # 2 team (Chris Newport) so yes it is possible to see  #1, #3, #4, and the team that beat #2 in one gym.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on February 13, 2013, 07:24:25 AM
Remebering last year, you are right, Calvin got rewarded after beating very, very tough WI teams at home by a trip to Chicago.  That is after only one regular season loss.  I guess we will wait and see.  It will help the team that wins the MIAA!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 13, 2013, 07:56:18 PM
Looking ahead a bit now that Calvin beat Adrian 83-52 to Sat's game.  On the Calvin site they are showing video for the Sat. 3 p.m game at Hope.   Is that correct or just a typo?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sflzman on February 13, 2013, 10:54:09 PM
Alma's basically out now. They need a win and a trine loss to Kalamazoo which quite frankly is not going to happen
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on February 14, 2013, 12:30:32 PM
Nice Article on Hope Senior Liz Ellis:

http://www.mlive.com/smallcolleges/grandrapids/index.ssf/2013/02/liz_ellis_the_heart_and_sole_o.html#incart_river


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 15, 2013, 11:05:24 AM
Quote from: realist on February 13, 2013, 07:56:18 PM
Looking ahead a bit now that Calvin beat Adrian 83-52 to Sat's game.  On the Calvin site they are showing video for the Sat. 3 p.m game at Hope.   Is that correct or just a typo?

Looks like it is not a typo.  There will be a livestream of the game.  Also, if you click on the livestream link right now it is showing as Hope's stream, so maybe this is their "one time a year stream"  ;)

http://www.calvin.edu/sports/news/comments/calvin-hope-womens-basketball-rivalry-set-to-renew-on-saturday-with-miaa-ch/
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 15, 2013, 01:20:44 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 15, 2013, 11:05:24 AM
Quote from: realist on February 13, 2013, 07:56:18 PM
Looking ahead a bit now that Calvin beat Adrian 83-52 to Sat's game.  On the Calvin site they are showing video for the Sat. 3 p.m game at Hope.   Is that correct or just a typo?

Looks like it is not a typo.  There will be a livestream of the game.  Also, if you click on the livestream link right now it is showing as Hope's stream, so maybe this is there "one time a year stream"  ;)

http://www.calvin.edu/sports/news/comments/calvin-hope-womens-basketball-rivalry-set-to-renew-on-saturday-with-miaa-ch/
Perhaps they wanted to keep the women on a par with the men's teeam.  I recall reading a post not to long ago that video was in Hope's furture.  Maybe it has something to do woth hosting NCAA games, as I know the v ball was streamed.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on February 15, 2013, 04:08:43 PM
VERIFIED!!!!!!!!!!!


http://www.hope.edu/2013/02/15/saturdays-hope-calvin-womens-basketball-game-will-be-streamed
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 15, 2013, 04:15:22 PM
Quote from: realist on February 12, 2013, 09:19:04 PM
One must be careful what they ask for.  If memory serves me correctly  last year Calvin got moved to the MW, and their reward was #1 Chicago, and the next night the eventual champion St. Thomas.  This after beating WLU, and UWSP at the VNA.

Illinois Wesleyan was the eventual champion. St. Thomas lost in the semifinals and won the third-[place game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 15, 2013, 05:12:26 PM
Women's seeds

1 or 2  Calvin/Hope    .......Calvin win, Hope loss Calvin is #1 seed, Hope #2 seed
                                  .......Hope win, Calvin loss = coin flip to determine seed
3.  Olivet
4.  Trine

Trine gets the 4th seed with win
Trine loss = Trine holds the tie-breakers over Alma and Adrian by beating Olivet
........over Alma by beating Olivet
........over Adrian by beating Olivet

In a 3-way tie (which can only happen if Albion wins)
......(Trine, Albion, Alma)   Albion eliminated with 2 losses to both Trine and Alma,  Trine wins tie-breaker with Alma with win over Olivet.
......(Trine, Albion, Adrian)   Trine wins with better record vs each other  2-0 over Albion, split with Adrian. 


Basically Trine is in, Calvin/Hope game determines final two seeds.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on February 15, 2013, 09:07:28 PM
go hope sat
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on February 16, 2013, 03:41:57 PM
Hope laying the smackdown up 33-16 in the first half. Gotta stay strong.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 16, 2013, 04:46:03 PM
Great job by Hope today.  No excuses.  They did what they had to do to win the game, and they deserve credit for that.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: MaroonKnighty on February 16, 2013, 05:05:29 PM
Quote from: gohope on February 15, 2013, 04:08:43 PM
VERIFIED!!!!!!!!!!!


http://www.hope.edu/2013/02/15/saturdays-hope-calvin-womens-basketball-game-will-be-streamed

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on February 16, 2013, 06:38:25 PM
Quote from: sac on February 15, 2013, 05:12:26 PM
Women's seeds

1 or 2  Calvin/Hope    .......Calvin win, Hope loss Calvin is #1 seed, Hope #2 seed
                                  .......Hope win, Calvin loss = coin flip to determine seed
3.  Olivet
4.  Trine

Trine gets the 4th seed with win
Trine loss = Trine holds the tie-breakers over Alma and Adrian by beating Olivet
........over Alma by beating Olivet
........over Adrian by beating Olivet

In a 3-way tie (which can only happen if Albion wins)
......(Trine, Albion, Alma)   Albion eliminated with 2 losses to both Trine and Alma,  Trine wins tie-breaker with Alma with win over Olivet.
......(Trine, Albion, Adrian)   Trine wins with better record vs each other  2-0 over Albion, split with Adrian. 


Basically Trine is in, Calvin/Hope game determines final two seeds.

Calvin won the post game coin toss.  They are the #1 seed.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 16, 2013, 06:47:11 PM
Huge plus for Calvin winning the coin flip, but Hope showed in the first game that they can play with Calvin at Van Noord so I expect another great game.

Hope played its usual tough defense today, but when they shoot lights out like they did in the first half (63%) there's probably nobody that would stay with them.  Calvin really stepped up its own defense in the 2nd half, and Hope got a little passive on offense.  Result was a number of tunrovers and shot clock violations by the Flying Dutch in the 2nd half, but the lead was just too much for Calvin to overcome. 

The next matchup should be a barnburner.  Regardless of which team you favor, we are fortunate to have national championship caliber games in our back yard.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: calvinite on February 16, 2013, 08:49:40 PM
What time will the men's and women's games be? Looks like both finals will probably be at Calvin.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on February 16, 2013, 08:56:13 PM
Quick observations on Hope v. Calvin
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 16, 2013, 08:58:57 PM
Quote from: calvinite on February 16, 2013, 08:49:40 PM
What time will the men's and women's games be? Looks like both finals will probably be at Calvin.

The women's game is at 3pm and the men's game is at 7:30pm
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 16, 2013, 11:48:33 PM
leaving Angola today I tuned into the radio coverage of the Trine/Kzoo women's game (excellent coverage btw) and the announcers kept saying Trine needed to win to avoid a play-in game.

Did I have the tie-breakers wrong, because the way I read them there was no possibility for a play-in game and Trine had already clinched a tournament spot?  moot anyway but still that bugged me.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on February 17, 2013, 12:16:20 AM
Quote from: pointlem on February 16, 2013, 08:56:13 PM
Quick observations on Hope v. Calvin

  • This season's two games in this rivalry have been mirror images.  In both, everything went right for the home team in the first half, and nothing for the visiting team . . . and then in the second half both teams regressed from their exceptional good or bad first halves.  (P.S. Revisiting the 1st game, I see the first half was closer than I remembered--though Hope's 24% shooting was pretty miserable.)
  • The two teams will almost surely play again next Saturday, and I'll wager it will be more of a nail biter.  Hope was freakishly off its game in the first matchup, and was freakishly good in the first half today . . . which will be a hard act to follow.
  • Brittany Berry is such a joy to watch--for both her play and her demeanor.  And how about 5 for 5 3-point shooting in her last game, plus her first three 3-pointers today.  Has any league player (men's or women's) ever hit 8 in a row?
  • How great to see Liz Ellis culminate her career with this win and 20 points.  She is a difference-maker, and will be very hard to replace next year.
  • Carissa Verkaik could have an off day and still look like an all-American, especially in the 2nd half when rebounding and being unstoppable when putting shots back up.
  • Carissa has never won a game at DeVos.  But that could very well change on March 15th and 16th.
  • Speaking of which, could someone lobby the NCAA to, puhhleeaze, put Hope and Calvin in opposite tournament brackets, so they don't meet early and there might be a chance for the ultimate Hope v. Calvin game?

Liz Ellis needs 2 points to join the 1000 point club.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 17, 2013, 02:08:13 PM
1000 points for Ellis will be a great milestone for her, but in my mind its her totally disruptive defense at the point and her ball handling that truly set her apart.

I believe Britanny Berry is now leading the nation in 3 pt FG %, she's shooting 50-102 for 49% from behind the arc.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sflzman on February 17, 2013, 04:10:54 PM
Quote from: sac on February 16, 2013, 11:48:33 PM
leaving Angola today I tuned into the radio coverage of the Trine/Kzoo women's game (excellent coverage btw) and the announcers kept saying Trine needed to win to avoid a play-in game.

Did I have the tie-breakers wrong, because the way I read them there was no possibility for a play-in game and Trine had already clinched a tournament spot?  moot anyway but still that bugged me.

Yeah I also thought Trine had clinched but looking at it you had it eliminating Albion due to the fact that they lost to Alma twice and Trine twice.  BUT in fact Albion actually beat Alma twice...therefore a three way tie between Alma Albion and Trine would have resulted in a play in game between two of the teams (which two I don't know)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 17, 2013, 04:26:01 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 17, 2013, 02:08:13 PM
I believe Britanny Berry is now leading the nation in 3 pt FG %, she's shooting 50-102 for 49% from behind the arc.

She should be the leader, her 50 made 3's puts her at the NCAA minimum for inclusion in the leaders category.

last week 47.3 was the leader.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on February 17, 2013, 05:48:47 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 17, 2013, 02:08:13 PM

I believe Britanny Berry is now leading the nation in 3 pt FG %, she's shooting 50-102 for 49% from behind the arc.

The last 9 games, Berry has been 32 for 50, at a 64% clip.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on February 17, 2013, 08:55:30 PM
I hope she's not reading this, because I don't want to make her self-conscious . . . but I see that there's no DII player who equals Brittany's 49.0 season 3-point percentage, and only one DI player (from U. of Connecticut) who surpasses her (at 49.3% as of today). 
Quote from: sac on February 17, 2013, 04:26:01 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 17, 2013, 02:08:13 PM
I believe Britanny Berry is now leading the nation in 3 pt FG %, she's shooting 50-102 for 49% from behind the arc.

She should be the leader, her 50 made 3's puts her at the NCAA minimum for inclusion in the leaders category.

last week 47.3 was the leader.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 17, 2013, 10:46:49 PM
Hope set the all-time league record for fewest points allowed in league play.
41.2 points, 660 points in 16 games.

The previous mark was 43.3 in just 6 games by Adrian in 1979.


Hope kind of blew that one away.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: anchor on February 18, 2013, 05:16:58 AM
On the topic of "the coin toss."  Both teams are deserving of the number 1 seed.  Could the winner of the coin toss chose A.  home court advantage OR B. who they want to play in the first game #3 seed or #4 seed?  The "loser" of the coin toss choses the other option.  Just a thought.  Seems wrong to "punish" the MIAA champion with NO home court AND playing the #3 seed.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on February 18, 2013, 07:29:42 AM
We finally made it to a Hope/Calvin game and all I can say is defense beats offense every time!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 18, 2013, 07:58:43 AM
Quote from: anchor on February 18, 2013, 05:16:58 AM
On the topic of "the coin toss."  Both teams are deserving of the number 1 seed.  Could the winner of the coin toss chose A.  home court advantage OR B. who they want to play in the first game #3 seed or #4 seed?  The "loser" of the coin toss choses the other option.  Just a thought.  Seems wrong to "punish" the MIAA champion with NO home court AND playing the #3 seed.

I like that idea.

Better yet, would still prefer some on the court tiebreaker.  Head to head point differential; regional ranking, or something else that the teams have at least some control over.   Maybe I'd feel differently if Calvin hadn't won the last two coin flips :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on February 18, 2013, 08:15:43 AM
So . . . how about, in the spirit of equity, going to the school that lost the previous coin toss, and alternating thereafter. 

Or if that doesn't work, maybe having the two coaches meet center court for a rocks/paper/sissors face off?  ;)
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 18, 2013, 07:58:43 AM
Quote from: anchor on February 18, 2013, 05:16:58 AM
On the topic of "the coin toss."  Both teams are deserving of the number 1 seed.  Could the winner of the coin toss chose A.  home court advantage OR B. who they want to play in the first game #3 seed or #4 seed?  The "loser" of the coin toss choses the other option.  Just a thought.  Seems wrong to "punish" the MIAA champion with NO home court AND playing the #3 seed.

I like that idea.

Better yet, would still prefer some on the court tiebreaker.  Head to head point differential; regional ranking, or something else that the teams have at least some control over.   Maybe I'd feel differently if Calvin hadn't won the last two coin flips :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on February 18, 2013, 08:29:49 AM
Or how about a free throw shooting contest, Ross verses Morehouse?  Winner gets home court :) :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 18, 2013, 09:10:13 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 18, 2013, 07:58:43 AM
Quote from: anchor on February 18, 2013, 05:16:58 AM
On the topic of "the coin toss."  Both teams are deserving of the number 1 seed.  Could the winner of the coin toss chose A.  home court advantage OR B. who they want to play in the first game #3 seed or #4 seed?  The "loser" of the coin toss choses the other option.  Just a thought.  Seems wrong to "punish" the MIAA champion with NO home court AND playing the #3 seed.

I like that idea.

Better yet, would still prefer some on the court tiebreaker.  Head to head point differential; regional ranking, or something else that the teams have at least some control over.   Maybe I'd feel differently if Calvin hadn't won the last two coin flips :)

As a Calvin supporter I have been happy with the outcome of the last 2 coin flips :)  But I would feel the same way as you if I was on the opposite side.  This tiebreaker of a coin flip needs to be changed, it is just not the way to go.  Why not adapt the same tiebreakers as the men's side does?  That would make logical sense I think.  Sac also played out those results in an earlier post I believe.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 18, 2013, 09:12:56 AM
Quote from: bballforever on February 18, 2013, 07:29:42 AM
We finally made it to a Hope/Calvin game and all I can say is defense beats offense every time!!!

Hope's defense was impressive and made Calvin's offense struggle.  I just have a hard time with this statement because of the earlier result at Calvin, so I wouldn't say every time.

Saturday's game should be a great one (assuming both Calvin and Hope win on Wednesday).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 18, 2013, 09:28:54 AM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 18, 2013, 09:12:56 AM
Quote from: bballforever on February 18, 2013, 07:29:42 AM
We finally made it to a Hope/Calvin game and all I can say is defense beats offense every time!!!

Hope's defense was impressive and made Calvin's offense struggle.  I just have a hard time with this statement because of the earlier result at Calvin, so I wouldn't say every time.

Saturday's game should be a great one (assuming both Calvin and Hope win on Wednesday).

Calvin's offense is really tough but let's not forget they have a pretty impressive defense too.  One of the top teams in the nation in blocked shots and when they stepped up their defense in the 2nd half they really gave Hope trouble.  Some of that may have been Hope getting passive on offense with the big lead, but it looked to me like Calvin was making it awfully tough for the Flying Dutch to run their sets.

I agree about Saturday's game if both Calvin and Hope make it.  I also agree with someone's earlier post begging the NCAA to put please these two teams on opposite sides of the bracket.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on February 18, 2013, 09:58:47 AM
I agree with the comment that most of the lack of Hope scoring in the second half was more due to them being passive than Calvin great defense.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 18, 2013, 01:39:08 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 18, 2013, 09:10:13 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 18, 2013, 07:58:43 AM
Quote from: anchor on February 18, 2013, 05:16:58 AM
On the topic of "the coin toss."  Both teams are deserving of the number 1 seed.  Could the winner of the coin toss chose A.  home court advantage OR B. who they want to play in the first game #3 seed or #4 seed?  The "loser" of the coin toss choses the other option.  Just a thought.  Seems wrong to "punish" the MIAA champion with NO home court AND playing the #3 seed.

I like that idea.

Better yet, would still prefer some on the court tiebreaker.  Head to head point differential; regional ranking, or something else that the teams have at least some control over.   Maybe I'd feel differently if Calvin hadn't won the last two coin flips :)

As a Calvin supporter I have been happy with the outcome of the last 2 coin flips :)  But I would feel the same way as you if I was on the opposite side.  This tiebreaker of a coin flip needs to be changed, it is just not the way to go.  Why not adapt the same tiebreakers as the men's side does?  That would make logical sense I think. Sac also played out those results in an earlier post I believe.

Had they adopted the men's tie-breakers

2. In cases where two or more teams conclude MIAA play with identical league records, the ties would be broken using the following criteria:
   a. Head to Head
   b. Combined record vs. the teams ahead of the tied teams in the standings.
   c. Record against 1st place team, then 2nd place team, etc....all the way through the standings.
   d. Total conference road wins
   e. Individual road records against conference schools, starting with the 1st place team, then 2nd place team, etc...all the way through the standings.
  f. Record in second half of conference season (last 7 games).
   g. In-Region win total.
   h. Coin Flip.

F.  would have have given the tie-break to Hope, (it would read last 8 games)

The men's tie-breakers make it nearly impossible to ever reach the point of tossing a coin.


On another note, the women's tie-breakers though shorter is much more wordy. ;) :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 18, 2013, 02:17:51 PM
Quote from: sac on February 18, 2013, 01:39:08 PMOn another note, the women's tie-breakers though shorter is much more wordy. ;) :)

Oh, that's a setup and I'm not going to touch it.  I'm in enough trouble after Valentine's Day....  :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on February 18, 2013, 02:27:43 PM
Quote from: bballforever on February 18, 2013, 07:29:42 AM
We finally made it to a Hope/Calvin game and all I can say is defense beats offense every time!!!
....the topic is interesting,  I looked up Calvin's stats last year to this year.  Last year they gave up 48 points and averaged 40 rebounds, 7 blocks and 11 steals and scored 71 points but they did play an easier schedule.  This year they give up 53 and average 41, 6.5, and 11 but score 78.  Calvin won 2 out of 3 last year and have split this year.  Arguably Hope has the better defense but Calvin has won 5 out of the last 8.    Saturday will be very interesting!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 18, 2013, 05:04:30 PM
Hope up to # 2 this week, and Calvin down to # 3.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 18, 2013, 05:21:24 PM
Quote from: realist on February 18, 2013, 05:04:30 PM
Hope up to # 2 this week, and Calvin down to # 3.

Once again, the voters are showing great respect to these two teams.  One beats the other and, unlike many polls, the team that lost doesn't plummet in the rankings.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 18, 2013, 05:30:46 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 18, 2013, 05:21:24 PM
Quote from: realist on February 18, 2013, 05:04:30 PM
Hope up to # 2 this week, and Calvin down to # 3.

Once again, the voters are showing great respect to these two teams.  One beats the other and, unlike many polls, the team that lost doesn't plummet in the rankings.

Yeah, the men's voters (mostly a different group of voters) did the same - Middlebury lost in 3OT to Amherst but only went down one slot.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 18, 2013, 06:06:48 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 18, 2013, 05:30:46 PM

Yeah, the men's voters (mostly a different group of voters) did the same - Middlebury lost in 3OT to Amherst but only went down one slot.

Basically entirely a different group of voters. I'm the only person who votes in both anymore. That's part of the reason why the poll almost always comes out before dinnertime now -- when Mark Simon wrote Around the Nation he voted in both polls and there was at least one SID who voted in both, and that is a lot of time for someone to devote to the vote.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 18, 2013, 07:52:29 PM
Attendance at the Hope/Calvin women's game was 3,400+

On that same day Michigan hosted Michigan State and drew 5,800, prior to that Michigan's largest crowd for a women's game had been 2,842 against Penn State.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 18, 2013, 08:01:04 PM
Quote from: sac on February 18, 2013, 07:52:29 PM
Attendance at the Hope/Calvin women's game was 3,400+

On that same day Michigan hosted Michigan State and drew 5,800, prior to that Michigan's largest crowd for a women's game had been 2,842 against Penn State.



2973 attended Hope at Calvin earlier this season.  2815 attended Calvin at Hope last year.  Maybe we can pack Van Noord on Saturday?  Might be tough to get the fans to come out for two championship games the same day (women at 3:00 pm, men at 7:30 pm)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on February 18, 2013, 09:40:08 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 18, 2013, 09:10:13 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 18, 2013, 07:58:43 AM
Quote from: anchor on February 18, 2013, 05:16:58 AM
On the topic of "the coin toss."  Both teams are deserving of the number 1 seed.  Could the winner of the coin toss chose A.  home court advantage OR B. who they want to play in the first game #3 seed or #4 seed?  The "loser" of the coin toss choses the other option.  Just a thought.  Seems wrong to "punish" the MIAA champion with NO home court AND playing the #3 seed.

I like that idea.

Better yet, would still prefer some on the court tiebreaker.  Head to head point differential; regional ranking, or something else that the teams have at least some control over.   Maybe I'd feel differently if Calvin hadn't won the last two coin flips :)

As a Calvin supporter I have been happy with the outcome of the last 2 coin flips :)  But I would feel the same way as you if I was on the opposite side.  This tiebreaker of a coin flip needs to be changed, it is just not the way to go.  Why not adapt the same tiebreakers as the men's side does?  That would make logical sense I think.  Sac also played out those results in an earlier post I believe.
Calvin's coin toss defensive strategy is impressive 8-)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on February 19, 2013, 07:46:32 AM
Is that what happened, Hope got to call toss again? 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 19, 2013, 12:09:40 PM
Congratulations to Carissa Verkaik on being named Capital One Academic All-American of the Year:

http://www.calvin.edu/sports/news/comments/carissa-verkaik-named-division-iii-capital-one-academic-all-american-of-the/
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 19, 2013, 12:21:04 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 19, 2013, 12:09:40 PM
Congratulations to Carissa Verkaik on being named Capital One Academic All-American of the Year:

http://www.calvin.edu/sports/news/comments/carissa-verkaik-named-division-iii-capital-one-academic-all-american-of-the/

Fabulous accomplishment, well-deserved congratulations to Ms. Verkaik.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 19, 2013, 03:46:26 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 19, 2013, 12:21:04 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 19, 2013, 12:09:40 PM
Congratulations to Carissa Verkaik on being named Capital One Academic All-American of the Year:

http://www.calvin.edu/sports/news/comments/carissa-verkaik-named-division-iii-capital-one-academic-all-american-of-the/

Fabulous accomplishment, well-deserved congratulations to Ms. Verkaik.
Yes indeeed.  Very nice way to cap off her career.  I am sure a few more awards etc. will come her way before it is all finished.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 20, 2013, 03:58:56 PM
Newest regional rankings are out:

1   Ohio Northern   23-0   24-1
2   DePauw   19-0   25-0
3   Hope 21-1   24-1
4   Calvin   18-1   22-2
5   Thomas More   24-1   24-1
6   La Roche   21-2   22-2
7   Otterbein   19-5   20-5
8   Franklin   19-4   21-4

I couldn't disagree more with how they put Hope above Calvin.  Yes Hope did just win last weekend but the numbers do not add up.  Calvin's SOS is .511 and Hope's is .494.  Calvin is 2-1 vs regionally ranked opponents while Hope is 1-1.  I think the committee got it wrong here.

But the good thing is all of this will be taken care of if Calvin and Hope meet on Saturday.  I see the winner getting the #3 spot in the final rankings, unless Ohion Northern or DePauw lose (which is not likely).  This will be big as I don't see the NCAA giving anyone below a #3 in the regional rankings the chance to host.  It seems to be rare that they even give a #3 the chance to host, but they did 2 years ago with Hope.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on February 20, 2013, 04:31:04 PM
I think head to head means more than SOS and Hope deserves it right now.   But as you said, after Saturday it will be very clear.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 20, 2013, 04:34:09 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 20, 2013, 03:58:56 PM
Newest regional rankings are out:

1   Ohio Northern   23-0   24-1
2   DePauw   19-0   25-0
3   Hope 21-1   24-1
4   Calvin   18-1   22-2
5   Thomas More   24-1   24-1
6   La Roche   21-2   22-2
7   Otterbein   19-5   20-5
8   Franklin   19-4   21-4

I couldn't disagree more with how they put Hope above Calvin.  Yes Hope did just win last weekend but the numbers do not add up.  Calvin's SOS is .511 and Hope's is .494.  Calvin is 2-1 vs regionally ranked opponents while Hope is 1-1.  I think the committee got it wrong here.

But the good thing is all of this will be taken care of if Calvin and Hope meet on Saturday.  I see the winner getting the #3 spot in the final rankings, unless Ohion Northern or DePauw lose (which is not likely).  This will be big as I don't see the NCAA giving anyone below a #3 in the regional rankings the chance to host.  It seems to be rare that they even give a #3 the chance to host, but they did 2 years ago with Hope.

I agree that the Hope/Calvin winner will likely end up #3 in region unless ON or DePauw are upset.  You mentioned SOS and record vs RRO which are two primary criteria and both favor Calvin.  But Hope has a better in-region winning percent, by way of having played 3 more in-region games, and Hope arguably won the head to head.  These are also both primary criteria.  When everything else seems pretty even, I think it's pretty sensible to give the head to head the most weight to break the tie.

But we are fortunate that if things go according to form, the issue will be decided by the girls on the court.  Except for that darn coin toss.  But that's another can of worms for another day....  :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 20, 2013, 05:31:23 PM
I'd like to understand what the committee looks at when it looks at head to head.  Maybe someone with more knowledge could speak to it, such as Pat or Dave.  Do they look at the W and L or do they look at scores?  If they are strictly looking at the W and L then Calvin and Hope would be split as they each won at home.  If they look at the scores than obviously Hope has the advantage here.  I think looking just at the scores brings up different questions, good and bad.  But I'm interested to see what they look at here.

Also, I thought that when the committee couldn't decide between 2 teams with the primary criteria they go to secondary criteria.  I haven't played out what that would look like for Calvin and Hope, but might do so later.  If we really go by what they say as all of the primary criteria is weighted the same then they would not weigh the head to head more in this case, they would go to the secondary criteria.

Not trying to stir anything up, just was a little surprised I guess.  Really it seems as though I may just be splitting hairs, but I am curious  :)

And thank you Rball for pointing out I only did mention the criteria that favored Calvin, you are correct, my apologies  :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 20, 2013, 05:34:08 PM
It's a great question and I'm not sure if there is an answer, because every committee member could weigh things differently. I'd like to think a home-road aspect comes into it but for a home-and-home series, that's generally going to be a wash when teams split.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 20, 2013, 06:19:41 PM
Thanks for chiming in Pat, I appreciate it  :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: neilrocks on February 20, 2013, 07:46:30 PM
Trine starts 0-15 from the floor against Calvin.  Ouch!!!!!

Updated, finally 1-17

With 6 minutes to go in 1st half, 1-24

With 146 to go, 3-30, Sydney spragg, 1-10

Halftime, 3-32, down 40-11 8-)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: neilrocks on February 20, 2013, 07:47:58 PM
Former Hope PG Brad Duistermars, one of the refs doing the Hope women's semi-final game. :-*

Former Hope student-assistant, JR Schoon, one of the refs doing the Calvin women's semi- final game :o
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 20, 2013, 09:31:22 PM
Everyone will be shocked to learn both Hope and Calvin won......um, comfortably

3pm Saturday at VanNoord, women's finals
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on February 20, 2013, 10:55:15 PM
Hope's Meredith Kussmaul left the game in the 2nd half after going down hard.  The trainers were working on her right ankle/foot.  No information as to what she injured specifically, and the severity of any injury.  I am crossing my fingers and any other extremity I can cross that she is ok. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on February 20, 2013, 11:15:41 PM
Quote from: wwjjdd on February 20, 2013, 10:55:15 PM
Hope's Meredith Kussmaul left the game in the 2nd half after going down hard.  The trainers were working on her right ankle/foot.  No information as to what she injured specifically, and the severity of any injury.  I am crossing my fingers and any other extremity I can cross that she is ok.

Judging by the amount of tape the trainers had to take off the ankle to treat it, looks like it might have been a lingering injury. I wish i could read something into the short convo Coach Mo had with her near the end of the game, with Kussmaul nodding her head and responding with a high 5.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 21, 2013, 06:40:44 AM
Quote from: wwjjdd on February 20, 2013, 10:55:15 PM
Hope's Meredith Kussmaul left the game in the 2nd half after going down hard.  The trainers were working on her right ankle/foot.  No information as to what she injured specifically, and the severity of any injury.  I am crossing my fingers and any other extremity I can cross that she is ok. 

It's definitely an ankle, intial thinking is that she may be ready for Saturday, but too early to tell.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on February 21, 2013, 03:18:48 PM
Congratulations Liz!   :)


http://www.hollandsentinel.com/newsnow/x1037514590/Liz-Ellis-scores-1-000th-career-point-in-MIAA-Tournament-win
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: monsoon on February 21, 2013, 06:11:41 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 20, 2013, 03:58:56 PM
Newest regional rankings are out:

1   Ohio Northern   23-0   24-1
2   DePauw   19-0   25-0
3   Hope 21-1   24-1
4   Calvin   18-1   22-2
5   Thomas More   24-1   24-1
6   La Roche   21-2   22-2
7   Otterbein   19-5   20-5
8   Franklin   19-4   21-4


These top 5 appear to be so even that any means of figuring out an order is going to get down to splitting hairs; not very often a team is ranked #7 in the nation and only #5 in region as is the case for Thomas More.  Let's just hope the national committee finds a way to separate them in the brackets.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on February 21, 2013, 07:18:54 PM
Thomas More is really good too.....just ask Calvin!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 21, 2013, 09:21:53 PM
Great video on the Verkaik girls:

http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/sports/ncaa_bball/3-sisters-make-calvin-team-a-family
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 23, 2013, 05:40:15 PM
Hope over Calvin 62-59.  Both teams should be proud of playing a hard fought, back and forth game that was absolutely fitting for the Rivalry.  Carissa Verkaik had a monster game with 24 pts and 13 rebs and it was only an equally monsterous game from Courtney Kust (career high 29 pts and 6 rebs) that put Hope in a position to sneak a win at Van Noord.  As a Flying Dutch fan, it's my sincere wish that we don't see the Knights again this year unless both teams are fortunate enough to make it to the national championship game at DeVos.  Wouldn't that be something?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on February 23, 2013, 06:51:49 PM
way  to  hope   girls          on the win tonight
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 24, 2013, 12:15:39 AM
I think I could watch the Hope and Calvin women play every day and not get bored.  Its quite a chess match out there between two very good teams.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 24, 2013, 06:50:23 AM
Any chance that Hope would host first round games?  Or is it unlikely given that Ohio Northern and DePauw are likely still ahead of Hope in regional rankings....
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 24, 2013, 07:56:14 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 24, 2013, 06:50:23 AM
Any chance that Hope would host first round games?  Or is it unlikely given that Ohio Northern and DePauw are likely still ahead of Hope in regional rankings....

There have been teams ranked 3rd in a region who have hosted in the past so it is still a good possibility.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 24, 2013, 08:01:06 AM
Quote from: sac on February 24, 2013, 12:15:39 AM
I think I could watch the Hope and Calvin women play every day and not get bored.  Its quite a chess match out there between two very good teams.

It really was heart-stopping basketball, that's for sure. Gust was tremendous for Hope and almost single-handedly willed the Hope women to victory. Verkaik was her usual self except she missed some good looks the last ten minutes she usually makes. I don't think it was just bad luck though. Hope hounded her all afternoon and I think she was pretty gassed so credit to the defense. If your legs are shot it's a lot tougher to make baskets. Engelhard had a tough game going 0-5 from the floor. With all that, Calvin lost the game the last 20 seconds of the first half when, holding a six point lead with the ball and no shot clock to worry about, they took not one but two ill advised shots. Hope got the ball back and scored four points the last 3.5 seconds they should never have been able to score and Calvin lost by three.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on February 24, 2013, 10:28:34 AM
How did the end of the half happen?  Didn't Calvin call a timeout? Nevertheless, the players should have known what to do.   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on February 24, 2013, 01:16:18 PM
One of the NCAA's considerations for hosting is the venue and revenue . . . so perhaps the average home attendance numbers might weigh, among other things, in Hope's favor.  I was stimulated to look partly by visiting the streaming video of the DePauw game yesterday and being surprised at how empty the place seemed to be (attendance 415), given their team's #1 ranking.

Home average attendance:
DePauw = 290
Ohio Northern - 425
Thomas Moore - 454
Hope = 1019
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 24, 2013, 06:50:23 AM
Any chance that Hope would host first round games?  Or is it unlikely given that Ohio Northern and DePauw are likely still ahead of Hope in regional rankings....
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 24, 2013, 01:38:08 PM
Quote from: pointlem on February 24, 2013, 01:16:18 PM
One of the NCAA's considerations for hosting is the venue and revenue . . . so perhaps the average home attendance numbers might weigh, among other things, in Hope's favor.  I was stimulated to look partly by visiting the streaming video of the DePauw game yesterday and being surprised at how empty the place seemed to be (attendance 415), given their team's #1 ranking.

Home average attendance:
DePauw = 290
Ohio Northern - 425
Thomas Moore - 454
Hope = 1019
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 24, 2013, 06:50:23 AM
Any chance that Hope would host first round games?  Or is it unlikely given that Ohio Northern and DePauw are likely still ahead of Hope in regional rankings....

That's really a shame for the DePauw girls.  They've been #1 since early in the season and only 290 turn out for their games?  They deserve better.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: calvinite on February 24, 2013, 02:31:35 PM
Quote from: oldknight on February 24, 2013, 08:01:06 AM

With all that, Calvin lost the game the last 20 seconds of the first half when, holding a six point lead with the ball and no shot clock to worry about, they took not one but two ill advised shots....

Since Calvin lost the game in the last 20 seconds of the first half, their lack of a foul --or really an attempt to foul -- between 27 seconds left in the game to 16 seconds left in game with the shot clock off) could have cost them the game if they hadn't already lost the game at that point -- if this makes any sense which it probably doesn't

I rarely (this might be the FIRST TIME EVER) get inside information, but I heard first-hand that Carrisa was NOT feeling well on Friday -- and I assume this carried over to Saturday. I think this also explains a little what I would characterize as 'not her best game' (or OK's reference to tired legs). I don't think she played poorly (or was significantly sick with the flu), but I do think she was NOT feeling 100%, and I think it showed.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: calvinite on February 24, 2013, 02:32:41 PM
Pool C bid opportunities for Calvin? I have to believe it's likely, but given what happened to Hope last year, I know you can't take anything for granted?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 24, 2013, 02:34:13 PM
Quote from: Calvinhoops on February 24, 2013, 10:28:34 AM
How did the end of the half happen?  Didn't Calvin call a timeout? Nevertheless, the players should have known what to do.

After Calvin missed two shots with 20 seconds left, Hope took possession, got fouled with 3.5 seconds and made both free throws. Calvin threw the inbounds pass to halfcourt where it was intercepted and Hope scored a runner at the buzzer.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 24, 2013, 02:58:27 PM
Quote from: calvinite on February 24, 2013, 02:32:41 PM
Pool C bid opportunities for Calvin? I have to believe it's likely, but given what happened to Hope last year, I know you can't take anything for granted?

Calvin should easily be in the tournament as a Pool C bid.  It was different for Hope last year as they were never regionally ranked. 

The question now will be what the NCAA does with the hosting.  I believe Ohio Northern and DePauw will be hosting, done deal (as long as they have submitted the necessary paperwork).  Hope has a chance to host as well as they should be ranked 3rd in the region.  They hosted 2 years ago when they were ranked 3rd in the region behind Thomas More and Calvin (who both hosted as well).  I also think Calvin has an outside chance (small though) to host the first weekend.  It will depend on how the seeding and geography plays out for who makes the tournament.

It will be fun to watch on Monday to see the draw.  I'm hoping at least 1 MIAA team gets to host (which if only 1 it should be Hope) as both Calvin and Hope are deserving IMO.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 24, 2013, 03:12:03 PM
Quote from: calvinite on February 24, 2013, 02:32:41 PM
Pool C bid opportunities for Calvin? I have to believe it's likely, but given what happened to Hope last year, I know you can't take anything for granted?

Agree with bballfan13, Calvin has had a good regional ranking all along and none of the "bad" regional losses that Hope had last year.  They should be a shoo-in for Pool C.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 24, 2013, 03:17:36 PM
Quote from: calvinite on February 24, 2013, 02:31:35 PM
Quote from: oldknight on February 24, 2013, 08:01:06 AM

With all that, Calvin lost the game the last 20 seconds of the first half when, holding a six point lead with the ball and no shot clock to worry about, they took not one but two ill advised shots....

Since Calvin lost the game in the last 20 seconds of the first half, their lack of a foul --or really an attempt to foul -- between 27 seconds left in the game to 16 seconds left in game with the shot clock off) could have cost them the game if they hadn't already lost the game at that point -- if this makes any sense which it probably doesn't

I rarely (this might be the FIRST TIME EVER) get inside information, but I heard first-hand that Carrisa was NOT feeling well on Friday -- and I assume this carried over to Saturday. I think this also explains a little what I would characterize as 'not her best game' (or OK's reference to tired legs). I don't think she played poorly (or was significantly sick with the flu), but I do think she was NOT feeling 100%, and I think it showed.


Feeling well or not, Carissa had her best game statistically against Hope in at least the last 6 games/2 years.  Yesterday was the first time she topped 20 points in those six games and she had her 2nd highest rebound total out of the six.  She also equalled the most minutes played (36) out of the six games.   I thought she had a whale of a game, even more so if she wasn't feeling well.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 24, 2013, 05:50:49 PM
I don't think there are enough teams in the area to justify Calvin hosting a 4 team pod.  Nationally only 15 schools are going to host a 4 team pod.

DePauw and Ohio Northern are most certainly hosting, next in line from the GL would be Hope and/or Thomas More.  Have to figure either UW-Whitewater or Washington-Stl or even both will get a host as well.   Just can't see a need for a sixth or seventh 4 team pod in this part of country.  Calvin's just a little too far down the pecking order I think.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: calvinite on February 24, 2013, 06:11:29 PM
Quote
Feeling well or not, Carissa had her best game statistically against Hope in at least the last 6 games/2 years. 
*I know she wasn't feeling 100% on Friday; she may or may not have been 100% on Saturday. Good point about how well she did against Hope which we all know is an excellent defensive team. She normally shoots 57%, but she went 6 for 16 yesterday. That may be more a reflection of Hope's defense than on her health. On the other hand, she went 12 for 16 from the free throw line where she normally shoots 90%. She had only missed 11 free throws all year (over 100 shots) until yesterday when she missed 4.

Anyway, speaking of health issues, what a blessing that Kayla Englhard was able to come back after going down, pointing to her knee, and being helped off the court. Remember a couple year's ago when TWO Calvin girls went down in either the tournament finals or the final Hope-Calvin game of the year? One of those players I know was Marcia Harris, a huge loss. When Kayla went down, I figured Calvin was just cursed. Anyway, she seems to be all right (despite not having had her best game).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 24, 2013, 06:36:27 PM
I too was very glad to see Englhard come back.  I remember that time when the Calvin girls went down, and Kussmaul's loss was a huge blow to Hope last year.  I root hard for my teams, but never want to see anyone unable to compete due to injury.  While Hope is my team, I'll be rooting hard for Calvin throughout the tournament and Englhard makes a big difference for the Knights.

Carissa's shooting was not really out of line with those other Hope games.  Her outings include 6-14, 5-12, and 6-18 among those previous 5 games.  No shame there against an excellent defense like Hope's and she occupies a lot of attention.  But the Flying Dutch's shooting % is also typically way down when playing against the Knights' defense.    I chalk it up to strong defense by both teams; shooting isn't as easy as it is against softer teams.

Free throws are funny; Liz Ellis has also been well over 80% all year and she went 4-9 yesterday.  I guess she and Carissa offset each other from the line - and maybe someone should check those rims!  :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: calvinite on February 24, 2013, 06:57:07 PM
Thanks, Roundball999. In past years, I was unable (too immature, too self-centered, too competitive, all of the above?????) to ever cheer for Hope. Now, my anger with regional rankings and the system of selecting Pool C bids, along with the realization that the Calvin-Hope games (men and women) are just more fun and exciting when the games are competitive, that I also (FOR THE FIRST TIME) will definitely be cheering for the Hope women in the tournament. Also, feel the same way about other MIAA teams. Calvin (and Hope) are better teams when we have better competition in the MIAA. I think there's promise on the men's side, but we have a way to go before we have more parity on the women's side.

GO MIAA!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 24, 2013, 07:10:03 PM
I think these are all the teams within 500 miles for Hope, which are also the same for Calvin I think

Pool A

*DePauw
*Ohio Northern

*Thomas More
*LaRoche
The first 2 should be a host, I think Thomas More or LaRoche might get a host due to their location.  If they don't host obviously they'd be in the possible opponent category.

Hanover
Westminster
Carthage
Cornell
Wisc-Lutheran
UW-Stevens Point
Hope

potential Pool C
UW-Whitewater
UW-Oshkosh
Washington-Stl
Illinois Wesleyan
Monmouth
Otterbein
Franklin
Calvin

I really have no clue what the Pool C landscape looks like for the women, to me Calvin looks in without much trouble.  The others would be within the 500 miles.

The Central Region has Cornell, Ia as an obvious host site, Simpson, Ia will get a host from the West.  I barely see enough teams to pull to a host site in Holland if Thomas More or LaRoche ends up hosting.

If we figure Simpson, DePauw, Ohio No. and Cornell as hosts you need 12 teams within 500 miles.   If all the teams I listed above get in plus a couple from the West Region which are to far to play in Holland you're left with 4.  So it really only leaves one more host site which probably goes between Hope, Thomas More or LaRoche.

This is really just a guess, but I think Calvin will be on the road for sure and I actually think its looks like higher odds Hope has to travel as well.



Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 24, 2013, 07:47:18 PM
If Hope does have to travel they are close enough to Simpson in Indianola Iowa which would include potential opponents like St. Thomas, St. Scholastica, Concordia-Moorhead, Minnesota-Morris
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope81 on February 24, 2013, 09:35:34 PM
The difficult thing about the host team projections is that we are not sure about who submitted a bid to host or not.  I am pretty sure that at least one of the mentioned host teams did not place a bid.  I think that may help the Hope cause, but with the NCAA, all things are possible.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 24, 2013, 10:02:17 PM
Sac, thanks for the great work on putting that together!

I mentioned Calvin as having an outside chance, but thinking not a very big chance at all, because of the location.  I do think they will still be ranked 4th in the GL region above Thomas More and LaRoche, so if they get to host it would have to be based on location, not regional ranking IMHO.

I think it would be a shame if Thomas More or LaRoche got to host over Hope.

It is interesting looking back to last year.  The GL region had 4 teams host  - Calvin, DePauw, Mount Union, and Thomas More.  It really does come down to location of schools and the 500 mile rule as you mentioned.


Hope81 - do you know which school did not place a bid?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 24, 2013, 11:05:49 PM
Sac, although it of course depresses me to say it, I would be absolutely stunned if IWU gets a Pool C.  They had an amazing 5 year run (66-4 in the CCIW; 5 straight times of at least Sweet 16), but just didn't have the fire power this year (hard to replace the national POY :P).  Hopefully they can get back on track next season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 25, 2013, 12:45:35 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 24, 2013, 11:05:49 PM
Sac, although it of course depresses me to say it, I would be absolutely stunned if IWU gets a Pool C.  They had an amazing 5 year run (66-4 in the CCIW; 5 straight times of at least Sweet 16), but just didn't have the fire power this year (hard to replace the national POY :P).  Hopefully they can get back on track next season.

I just listed all the teams that were regionally ranked that didn't get a Pool A bid, I have no idea how the Pool C process will play out on this side.



Quote from: hope81 on February 24, 2013, 09:35:34 PM
The difficult thing about the host team projections is that we are not sure about who submitted a bid to host or not.  I am pretty sure that at least one of the mentioned host teams did not place a bid.  I think that may help the Hope cause, but with the NCAA, all things are possible.

If this is true, and I believe it is, then I think Hope's chances of hosting are nearly a lock.  As near a lock as you can be without people getting mad at me for calling it a lock if they don't host.  ;)

Then I think you move Calvin into that position with Thomas More/LaRoche for the final hosting location.  Location would still not favor Calvin, and this isn't like two years ago when Hope and Calvin were #2 and #3 in the region all year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on February 25, 2013, 09:12:06 AM
Where ever they go, they need better guard play to even make it past first game.  Both teams struggled mightily so thank goodness for their excellent post play.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 25, 2013, 10:37:36 AM
Quote from: bballforever on February 25, 2013, 09:12:06 AM
Where ever they go, they need better guard play to even make it past first game.  Both teams struggled mightily so thank goodness for their excellent post play.
Like everyone else I would like to see better play at the guard spot by Calvin.  However, in their defense one must remember that Sat. was the third time these teams faced each other, and the second in one week.  The teams really do know each other, and their tendencies/weaknesses.  When you have this familiarity it seems to magnify any weakness.  I think Calvin and Hope will respresent the MIAA quite well. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 25, 2013, 10:47:59 AM
Quote from: realist on February 25, 2013, 10:37:36 AM
Quote from: bballforever on February 25, 2013, 09:12:06 AM
Where ever they go, they need better guard play to even make it past first game.  Both teams struggled mightily so thank goodness for their excellent post play.
Like everyone else I would like to see better play at the guard spot by Calvin.  However, in their defense one must remember that Sat. was the third time these teams faced each other, and the second in one week.  The teams really do know each other, and their tendencies/weaknesses.  When you have this familiarity it seems to magnify any weakness.  I think Calvin and Hope will respresent the MIAA quite well. 

I agree completely, these teams have studied each other thoroughly, tough to be smooth on offense when both teams are big, defend hard and know most of their opponent's stuff.  Let's not forget either that Ellis is a 2-time MIAA defensive player of the year and Doell is like a 6'1" octopus when she's defending on the perimeter; hard to look good against that. 

Engelhard is a really fine guard and I think Calvin will do really well in the tournament.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 25, 2013, 11:00:50 AM
Gotta love the d3hoops projected bracket - well maybe Calvin won't love the go to Rochester for the first weekend - but the fact that they have it set-up that a potential Hope-Calvin national championship game is a possibility.  Can you just imagine that :) :D

http://www.d3hoops.com/playoffs/women/2013/2013-wbb-projected-bracket
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hwbb on February 25, 2013, 11:58:14 AM
If only d3hoops were in charge of brackets instead of the NCAA. Given what we've experienced the past decade from the NCAA, this d3hoops bracket strikes me more as the fantasy bracket we'd like to see rather than the projected bracket we are likely to see. We can hope, I guess...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ziggy on February 25, 2013, 02:45:16 PM
Hope hosting Wheaton (Ill.)
Calvin heading to Cornell (IA) to face St. Thomas

Potential sweet 16 matchup for Calvin-Hope 4
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 25, 2013, 02:45:50 PM
So much for that  - instead, Calvin get's to go for some revenge (from VB) vs St. Thomas in the first round, while Hope is hosting and faces Wheaton in round 1.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on February 25, 2013, 02:46:24 PM
The good:  Hope hosting this weekend.

The bad:  Calvin in the same quarter of the bracket, meaning only one MIAA rep getting to the Final Four.

The ugly:  DePauw.  On the bright side, we won't have to (potentially) worry about them until the final.  Come to think of it, that would still be ugly.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 25, 2013, 02:49:47 PM
Quote from: ziggy on February 25, 2013, 02:45:16 PM
Hope hosting Wheaton (Ill.)
Calvin heading to Cornell (IA) to face St. Thomas

Potential sweet 16 matchup for Calvin-Hope 4

in Iowa or Wisconsin?

To clarify this, if Simpson advances it would require a flight to Iowa for both Hope and Calvin, or a flight for Simpson to Holland or GR.   If Whitewater advances they would be the logical host to avoid flights.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 25, 2013, 02:58:46 PM
Well as far as hosting sites, they didn't give one to the Calvin/Thomas More/LaRoche threesome which kind of points to what I was saying, there just weren't enough teams in the this part of the country.

Instead of using LaRoche or Thomas More as a bridge to the East they used Rhodes as a bridge to the South.

On the bright side they separated DePauw from Hope/Calvin/Ohio Northern/Thomas More, its not much but its something I guess.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 25, 2013, 02:59:52 PM
I suppose it can be said now but Ohio Northern was the school that didn't submit paper work to host.  ONU is hosting the NCAA wrestling regional this weekend in Ada so their gym is kind of taken.

Otherwise, Hope would have been on the road.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on February 25, 2013, 03:08:18 PM
If I'm reading the bracket correctly, Calvin and Hope would potentially meet in the 3rd round (Friday) game . . . when that bracket could as well, with no travel difference, have been organized to have them meet in the 4th round (quarterfinal) game.  Or am I misreading?

Calvin doesn't get home-court, but also doesn't have to face in the first weekend a team as highly ranked as ONU.
Quote from: ziggy on February 25, 2013, 02:45:16 PM
Hope hosting Wheaton (Ill.)
Calvin heading to Cornell (IA) to face St. Thomas

Potential sweet 16 matchup for Calvin-Hope 4
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hwbb on February 25, 2013, 03:11:06 PM
Thanks again to Pat Coleman and the folks at d3hoops for a projected bracket that, while sane and hopeful, was again simply wishful thinking in the face of the committee's logic (?). #2, #3, #4, and #7 in the country one quad (using last week's rankings, because the new ones aren't up yet), along with four other ranked teams. #2 vs. #4 in the country in a second-round game. Make perfect non-sense. Are we missing something, pat, or do these folks simply not care?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Happy Calvin Guy on February 25, 2013, 03:32:55 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 25, 2013, 02:45:50 PM
So much for that  - instead, Calvin get's to go for some revenge (from VB) vs St. Thomas in the first round,

Even more relevent, in basketball St. Thomas bounced the Lady Knights in the Elite Eight round last year. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 25, 2013, 05:17:15 PM
Quote from: Happy Calvin Guy on February 25, 2013, 03:32:55 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 25, 2013, 02:45:50 PM
So much for that  - instead, Calvin get's to go for some revenge (from VB) vs St. Thomas in the first round,

Even more relevent, in basketball St. Thomas bounced the Lady Knights in the Elite Eight round last year.

And even more relevant.  Calvin beat St. Thomas in the first game of the season this year 78-72 on a neutral court.  Will be a tough first round matchup though, that's for sure!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hwbb on February 25, 2013, 05:49:49 PM
Quote from: Hwbb on February 25, 2013, 03:11:06 PM
Thanks again to Pat Coleman and the folks at d3hoops for a projected bracket that, while sane and hopeful, was again simply wishful thinking in the face of the committee's logic (?). #2, #3, #4, and #7 in the country one quad (using last week's rankings, because the new ones aren't up yet), along with four other ranked teams. #2 vs. #4 in the country in a second-round game. Make perfect non-sense. Are we missing something, pat, or do these folks simply not care?

And while I'm asking unanswerable questions, this one as well: how is it that a committee who stresses regional rankings and success against regional opponents puts together in one part of the bracket the four Great Lakes teams that actually have wins over regionally ranked opponents (Ohio Northern, Hope, Calvin, and Thomas More) and puts together in another part of the bracket the three Great Lakes teams without any wins against regionally ranked opponents (DePauw, LaRoche, and Otterbein).  And then matches the two teams with the most wins against RRO the soonest (second round). Seems to suggest the committee actually put minimal value in  their own regional rankings. I'm confused, Pat and others. What am I missing?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 25, 2013, 06:45:02 PM
All-miaa team

http://miaa.org/sports/wbkb/2012-13/index
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 25, 2013, 06:48:42 PM
Hwbb - very valid questions, but I understand that while those criteria are used to determine who is in the field, I don't believe they necessarily are applied for who plays who, and hosts. Those determinations include other factors like who put in a bid to host, distances to be traveled, etc. not that I at all support this, but it is "their reality".
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 25, 2013, 08:11:23 PM
Quote from: sac on February 25, 2013, 06:45:02 PM
All-miaa team

http://miaa.org/sports/wbkb/2012-13/index
Thanks.  Not many posters have been around since the advent of MIAA women's bball, and  I am sure not many people really understand how significant CV's winning the MVP for the 4the straight year really is.  It has happened once in men's bball, and maybe once or twice in another sport, but to be a 4 time All MIAA is special, and to be MVP 4 years in a row marks a player as just about a once in a generation player ( if not once in a life time).  I am very thankful that I got to see Mark Veenstra do it on the men's side, and now Carissa Verkaik has done it on the women's side. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on February 25, 2013, 09:28:43 PM
good luck to  hope and calvin this week
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on February 25, 2013, 09:41:53 PM
From d3Hoops: 
"The committee seems insistent on having conference teams meet in in the Sweet 16 whenever possible. Amherst and Tufts are slated to meet in the third round, when a quick and free change could have put them together in the Elite Eight. Similarly, UW-Stevens Point and UW-Whitewater as well as Hope and Calvin could meet in the Sweet 16 rather than swapping positions in the bracket and meeting in the Elite Eight."

Any idea why the committee did this--assuming it was intentional?  Why have teams like these bracketed to meet on the 2nd Friday (3rd round) rather than 2nd Saturday (quarterfinal round)? 

I also wonder if Hope and Calvin coaches and ADs ask the NCAA to delay their meeting up.  Perhaps not.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on February 26, 2013, 08:25:34 AM
We are very proud of CV.  It is bitter sweet for the fans in that we did not realize we watched her for the last time play at the VN arena last Saturday. 
What a great career for her and for her teams.  We will miss her!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on February 26, 2013, 10:04:17 AM
St. Thomas feels they got a tough draw.
http://www.tommiesports.com/wbb/news/NCAApree.html (http://www.tommiesports.com/wbb/news/NCAApree.html)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: monsoon on February 26, 2013, 11:41:09 AM
Quote from: sac on February 25, 2013, 02:49:47 PM
Quote from: ziggy on February 25, 2013, 02:45:16 PM
Hope hosting Wheaton (Ill.)
Calvin heading to Cornell (IA) to face St. Thomas

Potential sweet 16 matchup for Calvin-Hope 4

in Iowa or Wisconsin?

To clarify this, if Simpson advances it would require a flight to Iowa for both Hope and Calvin, or a flight for Simpson to Holland or GR.   If Whitewater advances they would be the logical host to avoid flights.

Hope could bus to Simpson; it would be a flight for Calvin.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 26, 2013, 11:48:34 AM
A stat comparison of Hope & Wheaton (I have an efficiency calculation - not sure it's completely accruate since I found several deviations, but it should be good for comparison purposes).  Will post the same for ONU and Hanover shortly



Offense     % 2pt   % 3pt      % FT
Hope     43.9   34.9      73.8
Wheaton     44.9   31.5      67.7
            
Defense     % 2pt   % 3pt     
Hope     33.3   30.4     
Wheaton     33.7   24.9     
            
Rebounding     Team   Opp      Margin
Hope     41   31.7      9.3
Wheaton     45.3   36.8      8.5
            
Scoring     Team   Opp      Margin
Hope     71.9   43.7      28.2
Wheaton     69.5   52.7      16.8
            
3 point shooting     Attempts   Made      Made/game
Hope     498   174      6.4
Wheaton     498   157      5.8
            
Blocks     Total   per game     
Hope     116   4.3     
Wheaton     142   5.3     
            
Steals     Total   per game     
Hope     410   15.2     
Wheaton     266   9.9     
            
Turnovers     Total    per game     
Hope     413   15.3     
Wheaton     499   18.5     
            
Assists     Total   per game     
Hope     397   14.7     
Wheaton     493   18.3     
            
Assist/Turnover             
Hope     0.96        
Wheaton     0.99        
            
Efficiency     Offense   Defense      Difference
Hope     102.5   63.5      39.0
Wheaton     92.2   69.8      22.4
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 26, 2013, 11:52:46 AM
Stat comparison for ONU and Hanover (the difference in the two teams A/TO ratio doesn't bode well for Hanover)



Offense     % 2pt   % 3pt      % FT
ONU     50.1   29.6      72.4
Hanover     44.1   28.3      68.9
            
Defense     % 2pt   % 3pt     
ONU     37.4   24.7     
Hanover     43   30.8     
            
Rebounding     Team   Opp      Margin
ONU     40.7   34      6.7
Hanover     37.9   41.7      -3.8
            
Scoring     Team   Opp      Margin
ONU     70.5   51.3      19.2
Hanover     73.3   68      5.3
            
3 point shooting     Attempts   Made      Made/game
ONU     419   124      4.6
Hanover     467   132      4.7
            
Blocks     Total   per game     
ONU     76   2.8     
Hanover     61   2.2     
            
Steals     Total   per game     
ONU     277   10.3     
Hanover     394   14.1     
            
Turnovers     Total    per game     
ONU     359   13.3     
Hanover     584   20.9     
            
Assists     Total   per game     
ONU     409   15.1     
Hanover     402   14.4     
            
Assist/Turnover             
ONU     1.14        
Hanover     0.69        
            
Efficiency     Offense   Defense      Difference
ONU     102.5   74.9      27.6
Hanover     87.5   81.3      6.2
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 26, 2013, 02:29:06 PM
One thing not listed in FDF's stat comparison's was FT shooting.  Hanover has shot 300 Ft's more than all 3 of the other opponents.  They finished just shy of 800 on the season.

That's 10 more per game.  Suggests a team that goes hard to the basket or has a strong post presence.  Both ONU and Hanover give up a lot of FT's as well, that game may turn into a FT shooting contest.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 26, 2013, 02:59:16 PM
Hope will host the first weekend of the NCAA Division III women's basketball championship this coming Friday and Saturday at DeVos Fieldhouse.

Games on Friday will feature Ohio Northern (26-1) against Hanover, Ind. (21-7) at 5:15 p.m. while the Flying Dutch (26-1) will face Wheaton, Ill. (22-5) at 7:30 p.m.

Friday's winners will meet on Saturday at 6:30 p.m. Tickets are on sale now.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: RogK on February 27, 2013, 01:35:02 PM
Hello from over on the CCIW board.
To clue you in on what to expect from Wheaton :
their scoring output has ranged from 36 to 118; their opponents' scoring has ranged from 28 to 78.
Now you know exactly how Friday's game will go.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 27, 2013, 02:11:48 PM
As a heads-up for those who don't already know, the Bracket Challenge is out! Our friends at d3photography.com manage our official picks contests:

http://d3photography.com/bracket_challenge/

Playing for pride, which means student-athletes and department personnel can participate.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: neilrocks on February 27, 2013, 05:29:06 PM
Quote from: sac on February 26, 2013, 02:29:06 PM
One thing not listed in FDF's stat comparison's was FT shooting.  Hanover has shot 300 Ft's more than all 3 of the other opponents.  They finished just shy of 800 on the season.

That's 10 more per game.  Suggests a team that goes hard to the basket or has a strong post presence.  Both ONU and Hanover give up a lot of FT's as well, that game may turn into a FT shooting contest.

However, at a season ft % of 68.9%, they are well below the "NEILROCKS" line. ;D :D ;) :P
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 28, 2013, 11:46:45 AM
Gordan Mann's tournament preview

http://d3hoops.com/playoffs/women/2013/women-tournament-preview
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on February 28, 2013, 10:45:05 PM
Quote from: sac on February 28, 2013, 11:46:45 AM
Gordan Mann's tournament preview

http://d3hoops.com/playoffs/women/2013/women-tournament-preview
Oh, I wished I hadn't read this ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: DBQ1965 on March 01, 2013, 01:34:06 PM
Does anyone know what the ticket situation is for tonight at DeVos?  If I just show up will I be okay?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 01, 2013, 01:48:13 PM
Quote from: DBQ1965 on March 01, 2013, 01:34:06 PM
Does anyone know what the ticket situation is for tonight at DeVos?  If I just show up will I be okay?

You can actually order them online
https://tickets.hope.edu/ticketing/
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: DBQ1965 on March 01, 2013, 02:50:19 PM
Quote from: sac on March 01, 2013, 01:48:13 PM
Quote from: DBQ1965 on March 01, 2013, 01:34:06 PM
Does anyone know what the ticket situation is for tonight at DeVos?  If I just show up will I be okay?

You can actually order them online
https://tickets.hope.edu/ticketing/

Thanks ... I got the link.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 01, 2013, 03:52:23 PM
i heard a  lot left
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 01, 2013, 04:46:22 PM
Just to be clear, tickets for tonight (Friday, March 1) are available at the door, but not online.  The tickets for Saturday, March 2, are available online still, as well as tickets for the Final Four March 15 & 16.  If you have purchased tickets online, please be sure to check the date they are valid for.  Apparently, some people are trying to use their Final Four tickets tonight.  (Oops!)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AndersDY on March 01, 2013, 07:25:13 PM
Hanover apparently didn't get the memo about dress-code, no orange so you go home ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 01, 2013, 07:42:46 PM
Calvin women are done... Wow!

A 3 with 8 sec for St. Thomas to win it. Heck of a game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sunkiss on March 01, 2013, 08:01:46 PM
Down goes Calvin,down goes Calvin!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AndersDY on March 01, 2013, 08:15:23 PM
Brittany Berry in NBA Jam mode, might be time for the Steph Curry treatment on D by Wheaton
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 01, 2013, 09:11:18 PM
Hope 64 Wheaton 37

Perplexing that Hope can't do the video thing all the time. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 01, 2013, 09:14:22 PM
Thomas More also knocked out from the region.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on March 01, 2013, 10:19:51 PM
Calvin out scored 9-0 in the last 2 minutes.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 02, 2013, 08:22:16 AM
Was impressed with Wheaton, they're better than the final score indicated.  Scored many of their points on layups, they had some nice offensive sets.  On the other hand, Hope's defense held yet another team under forty and held Wheaton's star Brooke Olson to 2 pts. 

I think the difference for Hope is that they have several different players that can step up any given game and carry the team.  Not many teams at this level have that kind of balance.  Last week is was Kust, this week it was Berry, and Ellis has done it a bunch of times.  I believe Berry is now leading all of women's college basketball in 3 pt % at over 51% on the season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 02, 2013, 10:34:44 AM
Berry's 3 point shooting is... well it leaves me speechless I guess.  I recalled she had a hot shooting night (7-8) at Trine back in January and has really been on roll since.  Just looked back at the stats for the year and she has been on one heck of a hot streak:

First 14 games of the season
18 - 56 for .321

Last 12 games (starting with the game at Trine on 1/19)
41 - 59 for .695

That percentage is amazing - but then consider that in all 12 of those games she has been at or above .500.  The game must be an awful lot of fun when you are shooting like that.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 02, 2013, 11:30:59 AM
Yes, FDF, Brittany is truly amazing . . . and also for who she is as a person.  She radiates joy, both on and off the court.

Also, a tip of the hat to the Calvin women--and to the finest small college women's player I think I've ever watched--for a great season.  This year's Calvin team, like the Carrie Snikkers-era teams at Hope, was capable of a national championship . . . so the loss surely stings (as Hope fans of the past can empathize).

Both Hope and Calvin will be graduating key players.  For Calvin, especially, next year will be rebuilding--with seniors contributing an amazing 60 of their team's 62 points last evening.  Calvin may have lost, but it wasn't as if those seniors weren't doing everything they could to will them to victory.  If only . . .
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 02, 2013, 12:14:21 PM
Quote from: pointlem on March 02, 2013, 11:30:59 AM
Yes, FDF, Brittany is truly amazing . . . and also for who she is as a person.  She radiates joy, both on and off the court.

Also, a tip of the hat to the Calvin women--and to the finest small college women's player I think I've ever watched--for a great season.  This year's Calvin team, like the Carrie Snikkers-era teams at Hope, was capable of a national championship . . . so the loss surely stings (as Hope fans of the past can empathize).

Both Hope and Calvin will be graduating key players.  For Calvin, especially, next year will be rebuilding--with seniors contributing an amazing 60 of their team's 62 points last evening.  Calvin may have lost, but it wasn't as if those seniors weren't doing everything they could to will them to victory.  If only . . .

Tough to go out in round one but I feared the Knights might need better play from the guard court to compete with and beat the best competition. I'm wondering if Kayla Engelhard was healthy last night. She went down hard late in the first half against Hope last week and I understand still wasn't recovered by early this week. The sophomore has been an steady point guard for the Lady Knights, second on the team in scoring, has shot a pretty solid percentage, but has really struggled the last several games. Before the Adrian game she was a 46% shooter, but in the last five games she went 4-33 from the floor. Ouch. That's more than random variation.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on March 02, 2013, 02:04:17 PM
Congratulations to Carissa Verkaik in breaking almost all the major records at Calvin and congratulations to Kelsey Irwin who hit three triples in her last game to give her 187 which ties the career record at Calvin and congratulations to Julia Hilbrands who finished with the highest FG percentage in a season.....you will all be missed and hard to replace.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 02, 2013, 02:09:53 PM
Quote from: Calvinhoops on March 02, 2013, 02:04:17 PM
Congratulations to Carissa Verkaik in breaking almost all the major records at Calvin and congratulations to Kelsey Irwin who hit three triples in her last game to give her 187 which ties the career record at Calvin and congratulations to Julia Hilbrands who finished with the highest FG percentage in a season.....you will all be missed and hard to replace.


No doubt, Calvin's graduating seniors are a very special class.  Congratulations to them for their successes over the past four years and best wishes for the future.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 02, 2013, 04:27:37 PM
good  luck hope tonight
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on March 02, 2013, 06:45:48 PM
Does Hopes video EVER work!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on March 02, 2013, 10:13:31 PM
Hope plays St Thomas next.  With Whitewater and Simpson in the bracket, is it likely to be at Whitewater?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on March 02, 2013, 10:43:05 PM
Actually, I would put my money on Simpson hosting. They have three things going for them.

1. Cowles Fieldhouse seats 3,000 (according to D3Hoops.com)
2. They are 27-2.
3. Most importantly they are within the 500 mile range (482 miles) from Holland (according to Google Maps).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 02, 2013, 10:54:29 PM
Reflections on Hope's well-earned win before an energized crowd:
1.   With 17 turnovers and only 34% shooting, it wasn't Hope's prettiest win.  But good defense, good free throw shooting, and dominating (46-27) rebounding covers a lot of sins.
2.   After Friday night's shooting extravaganza, Brittany wasn't given many looks . . . but her presence helped open things up underneath.
3.   Liz Ellis is the engine that drives Hope's offense, which works best when it's in motion rather than letting the clock run down.
4.   St. Thomas wins the nail biter award. . . . with two victories after defending potentially game-winning possessions at their games' ends.
5.   Will Coach Ross offer Coach Morehouse tips, after playing St. Thomas twice?  (Do Hope and Calvin support one another in such situations?)
6.   A highlight:  Nate Snuggerud leading a student section antic.  Great to see the men players supporting the women players

The arguments for hosting the sectional rounds west of Lake Michigan:
1.   Geographical proximity of Simpson, St. Thomas, and Whitewater
2.   To avoid giving Hope the home court advantage for the whole tournament

The arguments for Hope hosting:
1.   They've earned top seed, and that generally counts for something.
2.   Hope would generate double the revenue.  This weekend's attendance totals:
          Hope = 3855
          Simpson = 1950
          Whitewater = 1535
          St. Thomas (unranked, average home attendance 302)
3.   Hope should not be punished for its hospitality in hosting the Final Four
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 03, 2013, 12:46:32 AM
Quote from: pointlem on March 02, 2013, 10:54:29 PM

The arguments for Hope hosting:
1.   They've earned top seed, and that generally counts for something.
2.   Hope would generate double the revenue.  This weekend's attendance totals:
          Hope = 3855
          Simpson = 1950
          Whitewater = 1535
          St. Thomas (unranked, average home attendance 302)
3.   Hope should not be punished for its hospitality in hosting the Final Four

Hope won't host, the NCAA would have to pay to fly St. Thomas to Holland.  It's going to be at Simpson or Whitewater.  Simpson looks to be the highest seed.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 03, 2013, 12:50:45 AM
The biggest factor in Hope's win may have been Liz Ellis and her ability to break the press with hardly any trouble or help for most of the game.  That and just dominating the rebounding on both ends of the floor.  ONU's bigs didn't play as big as Hope's bigs.

Not the prettiest win, but it doesn't have to be when you wonder for most of the game if the other team will reach 40 or 50 points.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 03, 2013, 07:36:13 AM
To your points, Sac:  2000 more seats sold at Hope could more than pay for the difference between bus transportation (which isn't free) and group air fare.  Also, I'd think Hope's performance this weekend could add to the case for its being #1 seed.

Just hoping here . . . .
Quote from: sac on March 03, 2013, 12:46:32 AM
Quote from: pointlem on March 02, 2013, 10:54:29 PM

The arguments for Hope hosting:
1.   They've earned top seed, and that generally counts for something.
2.   Hope would generate double the revenue.  This weekend's attendance totals:
          Hope = 3855
          Simpson = 1950
          Whitewater = 1535
          St. Thomas (unranked, average home attendance 302)
3.   Hope should not be punished for its hospitality in hosting the Final Four

Hope won't host, the NCAA would have to pay to fly St. Thomas to Holland.  It's going to be at Simpson or Whitewater.  Simpson looks to be the highest seed.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on March 03, 2013, 12:25:42 PM
Quote from: sac on March 03, 2013, 12:46:32 AM
Quote from: pointlem on March 02, 2013, 10:54:29 PM

The arguments for Hope hosting:
1.   They've earned top seed, and that generally counts for something.
2.   Hope would generate double the revenue.  This weekend's attendance totals:
          Hope = 3855
          Simpson = 1950
          Whitewater = 1535
          St. Thomas (unranked, average home attendance 302)
3.   Hope should not be punished for its hospitality in hosting the Final Four

Hope won't host, the NCAA would have to pay to fly St. Thomas to Holland.  It's going to be at Simpson or Whitewater.  Simpson looks to be the highest seed.


The NCAA wouldn't have to pay for it. As I said yesterday, taking the shortest route (through Des Moines) it's 482 miles between Holland and Indianola, IA.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 03, 2013, 12:52:07 PM
Pointlem-  Your points are true and logical, but history shows that the NCAA DIII tournament committee isn't necessarily concerned about logic.  Say "airplane" of "flight" and they go skittering away like cockroaches in a Kitchen Nightmares episode.  They will keep the teams on the ground and forego the potential for higher gate revenue, every time. 

Fortunately for Hope's teams, their fans travel well.  I think the NCAA knows this, and maybe it will come into play in deciding whether to choose Simpson or Whitewater as host for next weekend--Whitewater would more likely bring out the greater number of Hope fans and their dollars.  Either facility would have been large enough to hold the number of fans that came to the games each night this past weekend.  Lodging is another story.  Indianola, IA, is close to Des Moines, and there are plenty of hotel options there.  I can't say the same for Whitewater.  A search for lodging there quickly turns into a list of local B&Bs.

A team's seeding is pretty far down the committee's list of considerations, but I'm selfishly hoping that it will help sway their discussion in favor of Whitewater hosting.  We have friends just west of Milwaukee, and we would welcome the extra incentive to drive around the lake.  Not much extra draw for us to go to Des Moines.   :-\
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope81 on March 03, 2013, 01:06:55 PM
Get your Whitewater reservations and tickets folks.  I'm sure the ticket office will have info forthcoming.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 03, 2013, 01:09:18 PM
Quote from: sac on March 03, 2013, 12:46:32 AM
Quote from: pointlem on March 02, 2013, 10:54:29 PM

The arguments for Hope hosting:
1.   They've earned top seed, and that generally counts for something.
2.   Hope would generate double the revenue.  This weekend's attendance totals:
          Hope = 3855
          Simpson = 1950
          Whitewater = 1535
          St. Thomas (unranked, average home attendance 302)
3.   Hope should not be punished for its hospitality in hosting the Final Four

Hope won't host, the NCAA would have to pay to fly St. Thomas to Holland.  It's going to be at Simpson or Whitewater.  Simpson looks to be the highest seed.

The biggest negative (from Hope's point of view) of Calvin's failure to advance, is the likelihood that this week's sectional would have stayed in West Michigan if the Lady Knights were still alive. Even if Hope played Calvin at VNA again, I would think that would be preferable to going to Simpson.

Good luck to the Hope women. The current version of Flying Dutch basketball may not seem to be quite as good as some of their other teams I thought were destined to make it to the Final Four and then failed, but my gut tells me this one will play for a championship on their home floor. There's something about this team that has the "it" you need to be a champion, and it starts at the point. I've seen Liz Ellis play since high school when she was one of the better prep guards in West Michigan. She has been a starter since her freshmen year, has tons of experience in big games, is a terrific one-on-one defender, and just makes good decisions that help her team win. Kust's emergence has been a surprise to me and--no doubt--a welcome one to Brian Morehouse. Unlike Ellis, she isn't the most elegant player on the floor but she has a high motor and just makes plays.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on March 03, 2013, 01:10:41 PM
Tempting as it might be to host all the way through, I would not want any success to be tainted by "You got home court advantage the whole way."  I would hope that Hope decision-makers would level the playing field a little.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: voice on March 03, 2013, 01:19:30 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on March 03, 2013, 12:52:07 PM

Fortunately for Hope's teams, their fans travel well.  I think the NCAA knows this, and maybe it will come into play in deciding whether to choose Simpson or Whitewater as host for next weekend--Whitewater would more likely bring out the greater number of Hope fans and their dollars.  Either facility would have been large enough to hold the number of fans that came to the games each night this past weekend.  Lodging is another story.  Indianola, IA, is close to Des Moines, and there are plenty of hotel options there.  I can't say the same for Whitewater.  A search for lodging there quickly turns into a list of local B&Bs. :-\

While Whitewater is limited as far as lodging is concerned.  Just 15 minutes south is Janesville that has numerous hotels including the official team hotel (Holiday Inn Express and Convention Center).  Madison and Milwaukee are 45 minutes away.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: cmlundy on March 03, 2013, 01:35:32 PM
My thoughts on traveling to whitewater is this. 

NCAA to Hope:  We can't let you stay home for the entire tournament so we will only make you travel to Whitewater.  Doesn't sound so intimidating.  Could had been worse traveling to Iowa.  I'll take it.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 03, 2013, 01:40:47 PM
going to whitewater wisc fri 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 03, 2013, 01:47:10 PM
Quote from: voice on March 03, 2013, 01:19:30 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on March 03, 2013, 12:52:07 PM

Fortunately for Hope's teams, their fans travel well.  I think the NCAA knows this, and maybe it will come into play in deciding whether to choose Simpson or Whitewater as host for next weekend--Whitewater would more likely bring out the greater number of Hope fans and their dollars.  Either facility would have been large enough to hold the number of fans that came to the games each night this past weekend.  Lodging is another story.  Indianola, IA, is close to Des Moines, and there are plenty of hotel options there.  I can't say the same for Whitewater.  A search for lodging there quickly turns into a list of local B&Bs. :-\

While Whitewater is limited as far as lodging is concerned.  Just 15 minutes south is Janesville that has numerous hotels including the official team hotel (Holiday Inn Express and Convention Center).  Madison and Milwaukee are 45 minutes away.

Thank you, voice...  Yes, there are plenty of lodging options that are close enough to Whitewater in my view, but I wanted to emphasize the (perceived) notion that the committee just doesn't consider things deeply enough to take a Madison or Milwaukee lodging option into account, and Des Moines > Janesville.  Please understand that my preference would be to see Whitewater host rather than Simpson, and that is why I place the  :-\ emoticon where I did.  I'm only reiterating that, because your edited version of my original post gives the impression that I'm not so sure I want to go to Whitewater.  I would welcome that road trip...alot more than slogging my way to the middle of Iowa (no offense FDF).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 03, 2013, 06:20:09 PM
We've been told Simpson didn't file to host.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on March 03, 2013, 08:17:25 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 03, 2013, 06:20:09 PM
We've been told Simpson didn't file to host.

That makes more sense now I think.  Everyone could have driven to Simpson, so no flights would have been required according to the NCAA calculator (https://web1.ncaa.org/TES/exec/miles).  I thought Simpson was going to host this round as they were the #1 ranked team in the West Region, and Whitewater was #2 in the Central.  We don't know those final rankings for sure but that's the way it seems it would have gone.  Also, Hope most likely being #3 in the GL region and having to fly St. Thomas most likely knocked them out of hosting the next rounds.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 04, 2013, 08:57:24 AM
Quote from: pointlem on March 02, 2013, 10:54:29 PM
Reflections on Hope's well-earned win before an energized crowd:
1.   With 17 turnovers and only 34% shooting, it wasn’t Hope’s prettiest win.  But good defense, good free throw shooting, and dominating (46-27) rebounding covers a lot of sins.
2.   After Friday night’s shooting extravaganza, Brittany wasn’t given many looks . . . but her presence helped open things up underneath.
3.   Liz Ellis is the engine that drives Hope’s offense, which works best when it’s in motion rather than letting the clock run down.
4.   St. Thomas wins the nail biter award. . . . with two victories after defending potentially game-winning possessions at their games’ ends.
5.   Will Coach Ross offer Coach Morehouse tips, after playing St. Thomas twice?  (Do Hope and Calvin support one another in such situations?)
6.   A highlight:  Nate Snuggerud leading a student section antic.  Great to see the men players supporting the women players

Liz Ellis is a wizard with the ball, you could literally hear the crowd gasp with some of her crossovers and other moves breaking the press.  Ohio Northern is a very good, physical team  with a very good press yet Ellis handled it with ease almost singlehandedly.  Looked like she paid a price though, taking a beating especially near the end when ONU needed to gamble for the steal or foul.   The only other drawback is there could be a tendency to rely totally on Liz to break the press, rather than making a few quick passes to attack the press and try for the easy score on the other end.  But there's no doubt that with a ballhandler like Liz, the safe thing to do is put the ball in her hands.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: LA RAMS on March 04, 2013, 02:14:48 PM
A MIAC guy just crossing over to the MIAA board for the first time.  The UST - Hope game should be a great one to be sure.  Have heard a lot about Liz Ellis on here.  Can anyone else break down the Hope team for me?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on March 04, 2013, 02:35:48 PM
Congratulations to Carissa Verkaik on being named a Josten's award finalist:

http://d3hoops.com/notables/2013/03/jostens-finalists-announced

Carissa was also a finalist last year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on March 04, 2013, 02:39:43 PM
I've heard that Hope is makng arrangements for at least one fan bus. Prices are = $100/person, 2 people to a room or $85/person, 3-4 people to a room. This includes transportation, one night's lodging and tickets.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on March 04, 2013, 03:20:41 PM
Quote from: jspiii on March 04, 2013, 02:39:43 PM
I've heard that Hope is makng arrangements for at least one fan bus. Prices are = $100/person, 2 people to a room or $85/person, 3-4 people to a room. This includes transportation, one night's lodging and tickets.

More information on the fan bus.
http://www.hope.edu/2013/03/03/flying-dutch-headed-wisconsin-ncaa-sectionals-ticket-info-available
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sunkiss on March 04, 2013, 03:33:38 PM
Still cant believe Calvin is out of tourney. what do you guys think, not enough good competition ? bad luck? got outplayed? bad decisions? took team for granted ?  ??? ??? :(
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 04, 2013, 10:01:08 PM
Quote from: sunkiss on March 04, 2013, 03:33:38 PM
Still cant believe Calvin is out of tourney. what do you guys think, not enough good competition ? bad luck? got outplayed? bad decisions? took team for granted ?  ??? ??? :(
Sunkiss, the Hope women's teams I regarded as most likely to win a national championship--the Carrie Snikkers-era teams--didn't make it, thanks, in her senior year, to exceptionally cold shooting and a 52 point game against a team they would normally beat. 

On the other hand, the 1990 and 2006 women's teams that won national championships played their best, which is what it took to eek out upset victories against higher rated teams (e.g., 92 to 89 against Wash U in 2006).  Anything can happen . . . as Michigan basketball realized after losing recently to Penn State, which was winless in the Big Ten.  And that uncertainty, I guess, is what makes sport exciting.  The best team--which I do believe was Calvin against St. Thomas, and should be Hope against St. Thomas on Friday--doesn't always win.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 04, 2013, 10:18:44 PM
Quote from: pointlem on March 04, 2013, 10:01:08 PM
Quote from: sunkiss on March 04, 2013, 03:33:38 PM
Still cant believe Calvin is out of tourney. what do you guys think, not enough good competition ? bad luck? got outplayed? bad decisions? took team for granted ?  ??? ??? :(
Sunkiss, the Hope women's teams I regarded as most likely to win a national championship--the Carrie Snikkers-era teams--didn't make it, thanks, in her senior year, to exceptionally cold shooting and a 52 point game against a team they would normally beat. 

On the other hand, the 1990 and 2006 women's teams that won national championships played their best, which is what it took to eek out upset victories against higher rated teams (e.g., 92 to 89 against Wash U in 2006).  Anything can happen . . . as Michigan basketball realized after losing recently to Penn State, which was winless in the Big Ten.  And that uncertainty, I guess, is what makes sport exciting.  The best team--which I do believe was Calvin against St. Thomas, and should be Hope against St. Thomas on Friday--doesn't always win.

Well said pointlem, I agree completely.  These one-and-done tournaments can be heartbreaking to the favorites that lose and exhilarating to the underdog that wins.  What fun would it be if the favorite always won? 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 04, 2013, 10:28:29 PM
Quote from: pointlem on March 04, 2013, 10:01:08 PM
Quote from: sunkiss on March 04, 2013, 03:33:38 PM
Still cant believe Calvin is out of tourney. what do you guys think, not enough good competition ? bad luck? got outplayed? bad decisions? took team for granted ?  ??? ??? :(
Sunkiss, the Hope women's teams I regarded as most likely to win a national championship--the Carrie Snikkers-era teams--didn't make it, thanks, in her senior year, to exceptionally cold shooting and a 52 point game against a team they would normally beat. 

On the other hand, the 1990 and 2006 women's teams that won national championships played their best, which is what it took to eek out upset victories against higher rated teams (e.g., 92 to 89 against Wash U in 2006).  Anything can happen . . . as Michigan basketball realized after losing recently to Penn State, which was winless in the Big Ten.  And that uncertainty, I guess, is what makes sport exciting.  The best team--which I do believe was Calvin against St. Thomas, and should be Hope against St. Thomas on Friday--doesn't always win.

Right.  Aside from the once a decade super team that wins in a walk, I think people tend to consistently underestimate how much good fortune (and even sheer luck) is required for a title.  The national title team last year for IWU may have been our best ever, but I doubt it (they got hot, and national POY Olivia Lett simply refused to let them lose!).  They lost 5 games; the 2008-2009 and 2009-2010 teams combined lost three games (i.e., 53-1 before the national tourney) - both teams featured a player with the initials of CS (Christina Solari kept beating out Carrie Snikkers for national honors - WOW would I have loved to see them play each other!) ;D

IWU's only national title winner in men's hoops (1997) is in my opinion not even in the top 5 among IWU men's teams.  And even they needed a 'miracle' shot (hand-in-the-face, falling-out-of-bounds from the corner w/ 3-4 seconds left) in round two to survive against a team they had earlier in the season beaten by double digits.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mjfasteenwolf on March 05, 2013, 08:50:58 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 04, 2013, 10:18:44 PM
Quote from: pointlem on March 04, 2013, 10:01:08 PM
Quote from: sunkiss on March 04, 2013, 03:33:38 PM
Still cant believe Calvin is out of tourney. what do you guys think, not enough good competition ? bad luck? got outplayed? bad decisions? took team for granted ?  ??? ??? :(
Sunkiss, the Hope women's teams I regarded as most likely to win a national championship--the Carrie Snikkers-era teams--didn't make it, thanks, in her senior year, to exceptionally cold shooting and a 52 point game against a team they would normally beat. 

On the other hand, the 1990 and 2006 women's teams that won national championships played their best, which is what it took to eek out upset victories against higher rated teams (e.g., 92 to 89 against Wash U in 2006).  Anything can happen . . . as Michigan basketball realized after losing recently to Penn State, which was winless in the Big Ten.  And that uncertainty, I guess, is what makes sport exciting.  The best team--which I do believe was Calvin against St. Thomas, and should be Hope against St. Thomas on Friday--doesn't always win.

Well said pointlem, I agree completely.  These one-and-done tournaments can be heartbreaking to the favorites that lose and exhilarating to the underdog that wins.  What fun would it be if the favorite always won?

The one and done is awesome but especially in DIII basketball where one team has a home court advantage it seems so often that the best team does not always make it out of a weekend.

The 2008 Hope women are an example of this. I think after watching Hope for years this was probably the best team I have seen there. Anyone that watched them play down the stretch in the regular season and during that first weekend of the tournament at Baldwin Wallace would probably agree. They were absolutely rolling over everybody and were loaded with talent (Snikkers, Greene, Cowen, Boles, Lange, Henderson, Warsen, and probably more that I am missing. Their 2nd string would have won the MIAA that season.

Unfortunately they had a rough draw and didn't host either of the first two weekends. Anyone that was unfortunate enough to make the trip to Howard Payne that year witnessed the mysterious magic of home court advantage mixed in with some highly questionable officiating.

This being said having to travel is not always easy. Best of luck to hope this weekend. I think if they can come back home with two wins this weekend they would definitely be the team to beat at home.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 05, 2013, 11:55:21 AM
Quote from: sunkiss on March 04, 2013, 03:33:38 PM
Still cant believe Calvin is out of tourney. what do you guys think, not enough good competition ? bad luck? got outplayed? bad decisions? took team for granted ?  ??? ??? :(

Calvin played St. Thomas first game of the year, and the next night UWSP.  They started the year with tough games, and when you add in they played Hope 3 times that is about as good a preparation for the tournament as you are going to get.  Yes, Calvin is disappointed that things didn't go as well as they had hoped.  It was a game of runs, and Calvin had their chances all throughout the game.  No excuses.  St. Thomas is a very good team.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 05, 2013, 12:46:13 PM
Quick stat comparison for Hope v St Thomas



Offense     % 2pt   % 3pt      % FT
Hope     43.5   34.9      73.9
St Thomas     50.2   30.6      73.4
            
Defense     % 2pt   % 3pt     
Hope     33.5   30.0     
St Thomas     40.4   29.5     
            
Rebounding     Team   Opp      Margin
Hope     41.2   31.7      9.5
St Thomas     32.8   32.5      0.3
            
Scoring     Team   Opp      Margin
Hope     71.3   43.6      27.7
St Thomas     66.3   52.8      13.5
            
3 point shooting     Attempts   Made      Made/game
Hope     525   183      6.3
St Thomas     441   135      4.7
            
Blocks     Total   per game     
Hope     126   4.3     
St Thomas     111   3.8     
            
Steals     Total   per game     
Hope     434   15.0     
St Thomas     364   12.6     
            
Turnovers     Total    per game     
Hope     450   15.5     
St Thomas     450   15.5     
            
Assists     Total   per game     
Hope     418   14.4     
St Thomas     398   13.7     
            
Assist/Turnover             
Hope     0.93        
St Thomas     0.88        
            
Efficiency     Offense   Defense      Difference
Hope     101.6   62.2      39.4
St Thomas     103.9   83.2      20.7
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 05, 2013, 12:57:07 PM
Excellent article on Hope's Rebekah Llorens.  Gotta love D3 student athletes!

http://www.mlive.com/smallcolleges/grandrapids/index.ssf/2013/03/hopes_music_maker_sophomore_pl.html

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 05, 2013, 04:03:18 PM
Simpson v UWW stats



Offense     % 2pt   % 3pt      % FT
Simpson     45.7   33.6      77.3
UWW     43.9   32.7      74.7
            
Defense     % 2pt   % 3pt     
Simpson     39.7   29.8     
UWW     40.3   31.2     
            
Rebounding     Team   Opp      Margin
Simpson     37.4   37.6      -0.2
UWW     39   36.2      2.8
            
Scoring     Team   Opp      Margin
Simpson     72.1   59      13.1
UWW     70.3   58.5      11.8
            
3 point shooting     Attempts   Made      Made/game
Simpson     613   206      7.4
UWW     394   129      4.4
            
Blocks     Total   per game     
Simpson     87      
UWW     89   3.1     
            
Steals     Total   per game     
Simpson     391   13.5     
UWW     290   10     
            
Turnovers     Total    per game     
Simpson     489   16.9     
UWW     492   17     
            
Assists     Total   per game     
Simpson     426   14.7     
UWW     336   11.6     
            
Assist/Turnover             
Simpson     0.87        
UWW     0.68        
            
Efficiency     Offense   Defense      Difference
Simpson     103.4   83.6      19.8
UWW     100.8   83.9      16.9
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: neilrocks on March 05, 2013, 04:38:38 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 05, 2013, 12:46:13 PM
Quick stat comparison for Hope v St Thomas


Offense     % 2pt   % 3pt      % FT
Hope     43.5   34.9      73.9
St Thomas     50.2   30.6      73.4

Simpson v UWW stats

Offense      % 2pt  % 3pt    % FT 
Simpson      45.7    33.6       77.3 
UWW           43.9   32.7        74.7 

Quite impressive FT shooting based on our previous discussions.  Well above the NEILROCKS line (72.5%).  Not surprised to see these 4 teams in the Sweet 16 with FT shooting like that.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on March 07, 2013, 12:45:07 PM
Any preductions on St. Thomas vs. Hope??

I do not think Hope non-Ellis guards can handle St. Thomas press, so my prediction is Tommies 58 - Hope 41
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 07, 2013, 01:00:30 PM
Quote from: bballforever on March 07, 2013, 12:45:07 PM
Any preductions on St. Thomas vs. Hope??

I do not think Hope non-Ellis guards can handle St. Thomas press, so my prediction is Tommies 58 - Hope 41

Interesting...

I would predict things a bit differently.  Given how well Calvin and Hope know one another, and can be compared to one another easily, I'd put my money on Hope's guards over Calvin's by a pretty hefty margin.  Now factor in the games between those two teams, and the games between the Knights and Tommies, and I think you have a solid Hope victory. 

FWIW - Massey gives Hope an 84% chance of victory and predicts a final score of 61-50.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 07, 2013, 01:22:37 PM
Quote from: bballforever on March 07, 2013, 12:45:07 PM
Any preductions on St. Thomas vs. Hope??

I do not think Hope non-Ellis guards can handle St. Thomas press, so my prediction is Tommies 58 - Hope 41

I can't see any reason to think that Hope, with Ellis, would have a tougher time with the St. Thomas press than Calvin had.  Plus Hope has had a week to prepare for the press.  St. Thomas is playing really well and I expect a very tight game, but I'll go with Hope by 3.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on March 07, 2013, 01:39:03 PM
Great input.  I think I will change my prediction based upon this input to close the gap a bit,  Tommies 50- Hope 40.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 07, 2013, 02:14:55 PM
Maybe my eyes were deceiving me but I'm pretty sure I just watched a Hope team consistently beat a press by what was supposed to be the #3 team in D3.

Also, its a good thing Hope has an Ellis then. ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 07, 2013, 02:17:05 PM
Quote from: bballforever on March 07, 2013, 01:39:03 PM
Great input.  I think I will change my prediction based upon this input to close the gap a bit,  Tommies 50- Hope 40.

Don't see that happening. At all. Calvin has played St. Thomas three times the last twelve months, winning once and losing twice, once in OT and most recently by two on a late basket. The Tommies bedeviled Calvin each time by successfully leveraging their strength--ball pressure--against Calvin's weakness--ball handling. Hope's backcourt is clearly superior to Calvin's, on both ends of the floor, and St. Thomas won't be able to utilize their greatest asset to the extent they did against the Lady Knights. I think the Massey prediction has it about right, 61-50 Hope.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on March 07, 2013, 03:43:00 PM
Calvin's starting guards didn't score and struggled with the press so much that the backup guards played more minutes and scored 20 points between them.   That will not be the case with Hope.  The starting guards will play most of the game and only need small breaks and that will be the difference.  Hope by 10!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on March 07, 2013, 10:49:12 PM
Quote from: Calvinhoops on March 07, 2013, 03:43:00 PM
Calvin's starting guards didn't score and struggled with the press so much that the backup guards played more minutes and scored 20 points between them.   That will not be the case with Hope.  The starting guards will play most of the game and only need small breaks and that will be the difference.  Hope by 10!

Injuries were part of the reason.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 08, 2013, 03:41:07 AM
good luck    hope girls  tonight 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 08, 2013, 06:02:37 PM
Anyone have a video link that works?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dothedew on March 08, 2013, 06:48:13 PM
The link with miaa.org and hope isn't working for video. you have to go to d3hoops.com click on the link part way down the page with scores for the women. Find the Hope game and use that link for video. It will take you to the same page, but for some reason this way has the links on the right for the games....although they are called men's basketball.
Odd....5 minutes later it now says women's basketball.
http://d3hoops.com/notables/2013/03/womens-tournament-scores
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 08, 2013, 06:54:12 PM
Quote from: dothedew on March 08, 2013, 06:48:13 PM
The link with miaa.org and hope isn't working for video. you have to go to d3hoops.com click on the link part way down the page with scores for the women. Find the Hope game and use that link for video. It will take you to the same page, but for some reason this way has the links on the right for the games....although they are called men's basketball.
Odd....5 minutes later it now says women's basketball.
http://d3hoops.com/notables/2013/03/womens-tournament-scores

Thanks.  Turns out the video simple wasn't online at all for the 1st half.  Rats.  It's up now though...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 08, 2013, 07:44:01 PM
Nice job by the Hope women to advance.  As was mentioned before Hope's guards just were too much for St. T.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 08, 2013, 07:47:33 PM
Quote from: realist on March 08, 2013, 07:44:01 PM
Nice job by the Hope women to advance.  As was mentioned before Hope's guards just were too much for St. T.

Congrats to the Flying Dutch.  Everyone did a great job.  Berry is incredible, another 5-6 night from behind the arc.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 08, 2013, 07:48:22 PM
It really helps when you can go 9-12 on 3's.  :)  B. Berry deserves all the credit she is going to get for tonights win.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 08, 2013, 07:58:54 PM
St Thomas is a very tough team and a worthy sweet 16 opponent.  Congratulations to them for a great season.  Hope was just too much in the end and proved why they finished the regular season ranked #2.  Our gracious hosts will hopefully forgive me if I root for Simpson in the second game.  A neutral court game against an opponent who has not faced the Dutch just sounds like a less nerve-wracking proposition at this point.

:-\ :) ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on March 08, 2013, 08:02:51 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on March 08, 2013, 07:58:54 PM
St Thomas is a very tough team and a worthy sweet 16 opponent.  Congratulations to them for a great season.  Hope was just too much in the end and proved why they finished the regular season ranked #2.  Our gracious hosts will hopefully forgive me if I root for Simpson in the second game.  A neutral court game against an opponent who has not faced the Dutch just sounds like a less nerve-wracking proposition at this point.

:-\ :) ;)

Amen!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 08, 2013, 08:37:08 PM
Good luck to Hope to make it to a home Final Four.

Just a gentle reminder from a fan of the previous host of the FF - don't count TOO much on home court!

In 2010, we hosted the FF, but forgot to show up. :(  We hosted the sectional, but were upset by UWSP in the round of 16 (you beat UWSP the next night and made it to the final, but lost to WashU).

In 2011, we hosted the FF, and remembered to show up - sort of - we finished a dismal 4th.

In 2012, YOU hosted the FF, and we finally got over the hump and won it all. ;D

Home court is awfully nice to have, but it don't guarantee jack-sh!t! :o ;)

(This year, IWU didn't even make the tourney.  They were still pretty darned good, but replacing a national POY is not that easy! :P  I suspect Calvin is about to discover that. ;))
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 08, 2013, 08:57:59 PM
Quote from: wwjjdd on March 08, 2013, 08:02:51 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on March 08, 2013, 07:58:54 PM
St Thomas is a very tough team and a worthy sweet 16 opponent.  Congratulations to them for a great season.  Hope was just too much in the end and proved why they finished the regular season ranked #2.  Our gracious hosts will hopefully forgive me if I root for Simpson in the second game.  A neutral court game against an opponent who has not faced the Dutch just sounds like a less nerve-wracking proposition at this point.

:-\ :) ;)

Amen!
Double amen.  St. Thomas' press and traps created the best defense I've seen against Hope this season, forcing 24 Hope turnovers to St. Thomas' 18 (and that's where Hope usually wins).  But Brittany . . . wow! (again)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 08, 2013, 10:04:02 PM
Christopher Newport v Depauw
Widener v Amherst

Hope v Whitewater
Whitman v Williams

All 4 hosts advanced.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 08, 2013, 10:06:55 PM
Whitewater 76
Simpson 63


Doh!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sunkiss on March 09, 2013, 10:12:06 AM
Interesting statistic - Hope point guards 0 assists, 14 TOs !!!!!!

Berry was awesome, is she ever going to cool off??
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on March 09, 2013, 10:13:47 AM
For those who were at the game last night, or for those who could watch the video, any preview/thoughts/etc. for this evening's game?

p.s. Welcome Back DewtheDew!!!  :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 09, 2013, 11:59:28 AM
Quote from: sunkiss on March 09, 2013, 10:12:06 AM
Interesting statistic - Hope point guards 0 assists, 14 TOs !!!!!!

Berry was awesome, is she ever going to cool off??

Hope's offense tends to spread the assists, the point guards don't really average all that many anyway.  But those ARE unusual stats from last night.  Hey, they got the W against a very, very tough St Thomas D.  The Hope guards had a huge job to get the ball up court all game long vs. the press, I think they did a great job!

I don't expect Berry to cool down much as long as she gets open looks.  It's what she does.  I think Hope's balance is their key this year, opponents have to pick their poison and the Flying Dutch have a bunch of players that can step up with a big game if the opponent focuses on other players.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 09, 2013, 09:55:30 PM
Whitewater 65 Hope 60

Great comeback ladies, and a great season.  Every Hope rally was ended with a 3 pointer from the top it seemed.  2-14 from 3, vs 6-12 from 3 was the difference.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sunkiss on March 09, 2013, 09:58:09 PM
Down goes Hope , Down goes Hope!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 09, 2013, 10:03:19 PM
18 point deficit was just too much to overcome, especially with Whitewater's home court advantage.  Got the feeling that the Flying Dutch might have pulled it out with another 5 minutes, but not to be.  All the credit to Whitewater for setting Hope on its heels to start the game and building the big lead.

Congrats to the Flying Dutch for a fabulous season, probably more than most people expected at the start of the year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 09, 2013, 10:46:08 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 09, 2013, 10:03:19 PM
18 point deficit was just too much to overcome, especially with Whitewater's home court advantage.  Got the feeling that the Flying Dutch might have pulled it out with another 5 minutes, but not to be.  All the credit to Whitewater for setting Hope on its heels to start the game and building the big lead.

Congrats to the Flying Dutch for a fabulous season, probably more than most people expected at the start of the year.
Well said, Roundball. 

This loss is going to hurt for awhile because they came so close to that dreamed-of home-court Final Four . . . and because it was a winnable game.  With a 24 to 14 turnover advantage, the game--except for shooting that was as cold tonight as it was hot last night--was normally one Hope would win.  It wasn't just the 2 for 14 on 3's, it was all the missed layups.  (Hope's last five losses in NCAA tournaments have all come in Saturday games, after playing the night before--and then their shooting not being sharp, as if they were not well rested.)

But on the positive side:  What determination, spirit, and character this team showed all year, including during their comeback tonight.  And what great team defense all year, supported by great coaching.

A tough way for the seniors to bow out, but what a pleasure they've been to watch this year.  May good memories and long-term friendships eventually replace the pain of dashed hopes.

And say something for the supportive Hope fans, who seemed about 45 percent of the house tonight.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 09, 2013, 10:49:33 PM
Congrats to the Hope women on a great season. You don't have to be off your game by much to get bounced from the NCAA tournament.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: calvinite on March 09, 2013, 11:22:33 PM
After the sting of this loss wears off, all the Hope women will have fond memories of a fantastic season with lots of highlights.

This is probably a stupid and pointless thing to say at this point, but good chance this game has different results if played in Holland -- and I think it's unfortunate that it wasn't played in Holland.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 10, 2013, 12:02:49 AM
Quote from: calvinite on March 09, 2013, 11:22:33 PM
After the sting of this loss wears off, all the Hope women will have fond memories of a fantastic season with lots of highlights.

This is probably a stupid and pointless thing to say at this point, but good chance this game has different results if played in Holland -- and I think it's unfortunate that it wasn't played in Holland.

With both Hope and St. Thomas in the sectional, it was inevitable that the host would be either UWW or Simpson - no flights necessary, whereas either Holland or St. Paul would require a flight.  We are, alas, a tourney controlled by the bean counters.  Always have been, probably always will be.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 10, 2013, 12:48:41 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 10, 2013, 12:02:49 AM
Quote from: calvinite on March 09, 2013, 11:22:33 PM
After the sting of this loss wears off, all the Hope women will have fond memories of a fantastic season with lots of highlights.

This is probably a stupid and pointless thing to say at this point, but good chance this game has different results if played in Holland -- and I think it's unfortunate that it wasn't played in Holland.

With both Hope and St. Thomas in the sectional, it was inevitable that the host would be either UWW or Simpson - no flights necessary, whereas either Holland or St. Paul would require a flight.  We are, alas, a tourney controlled by the bean counters.  Always have been, probably always will be.

Blame Calvin for letting St. Thomas get that far. :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hopetix on March 10, 2013, 12:55:22 AM
Very difficult night for our Hope Fan nation and our Hope women. I am proud to be a part of a group of people who cheer with class and dignity, and who love their team when the win and when they don't. The passion of our fans is something I don't see anywhere else in D3 basketball. When you can get 500 fans who traveled 4 hours or more, (mostly adults) to do the Dew Crew warm ups as well as the roller coaster, you know you've got something very special going on. Thanks for an incredible season, and as always. Go Hope!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 10, 2013, 01:16:26 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 10, 2013, 12:48:41 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 10, 2013, 12:02:49 AM
Quote from: calvinite on March 09, 2013, 11:22:33 PM
After the sting of this loss wears off, all the Hope women will have fond memories of a fantastic season with lots of highlights.

This is probably a stupid and pointless thing to say at this point, but good chance this game has different results if played in Holland -- and I think it's unfortunate that it wasn't played in Holland.

With both Hope and St. Thomas in the sectional, it was inevitable that the host would be either UWW or Simpson - no flights necessary, whereas either Holland or St. Paul would require a flight.  We are, alas, a tourney controlled by the bean counters.  Always have been, probably always will be.

Blame Calvin for letting St. Thomas get that far. :)

Ooh, Pat - you think Hope and Calvin need any additional fire to the rivalry?! ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 10, 2013, 09:29:58 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 10, 2013, 01:16:26 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 10, 2013, 12:48:41 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 10, 2013, 12:02:49 AM
Quote from: calvinite on March 09, 2013, 11:22:33 PM
After the sting of this loss wears off, all the Hope women will have fond memories of a fantastic season with lots of highlights.

This is probably a stupid and pointless thing to say at this point, but good chance this game has different results if played in Holland -- and I think it's unfortunate that it wasn't played in Holland.

With both Hope and St. Thomas in the sectional, it was inevitable that the host would be either UWW or Simpson - no flights necessary, whereas either Holland or St. Paul would require a flight.  We are, alas, a tourney controlled by the bean counters.  Always have been, probably always will be.

Blame Calvin for letting St. Thomas get that far. :)

Ooh, Pat - you think Hope and Calvin need any additional fire to the rivalry?! ;D

You don't honestly think either of you could do anything that would affect The Rivalry, do you?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 10, 2013, 11:36:15 AM
good  job hope  on  a   great seasson  29-2     and way to go hope fans   got home at  4.30  am on the bus
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 10, 2013, 04:41:22 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 10, 2013, 09:29:58 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 10, 2013, 01:16:26 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 10, 2013, 12:48:41 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 10, 2013, 12:02:49 AM
Quote from: calvinite on March 09, 2013, 11:22:33 PM
After the sting of this loss wears off, all the Hope women will have fond memories of a fantastic season with lots of highlights.

This is probably a stupid and pointless thing to say at this point, but good chance this game has different results if played in Holland -- and I think it's unfortunate that it wasn't played in Holland.

With both Hope and St. Thomas in the sectional, it was inevitable that the host would be either UWW or Simpson - no flights necessary, whereas either Holland or St. Paul would require a flight.  We are, alas, a tourney controlled by the bean counters.  Always have been, probably always will be.

Blame Calvin for letting St. Thomas get that far. :)

Ooh, Pat - you think Hope and Calvin need any additional fire to the rivalry?! ;D

You don't honestly think either of you could do anything that would affect The Rivalry, do you?

No, which is why I really had no qualms about saying it. :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hwbb on March 12, 2013, 06:51:52 PM
Just a little fun fact from over on the NESCAC board, about an Amherst team that has now made five consecutive Final Fours:

Amherst road to the Final 4 over the last five seasons:

Tournament Home Games:  20
Neutral/Away Games:  0

Final Four Record:  3-5


Hmmmmmmm.......
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 12, 2013, 07:47:21 PM
Interesting.  The NCAA has also been nice to archrivals Amherst and Williams by allowing both to host and putting them on opposite sides of the bracket . . . as Hope and Calvin would wish to be (but have never been).  Hmmmmmm
Quote from: Hwbb on March 12, 2013, 06:51:52 PM
Just a little fun fact from over on the NESCAC board, about an Amherst team that has now made five consecutive Final Fours:

Amherst road to the Final 4 over the last five seasons:

Tournament Home Games:  20
Neutral/Away Games:  0

Final Four Record:  3-5


Hmmmmmmm.......
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 12, 2013, 08:49:29 PM
Quote from: pointlem on March 12, 2013, 07:47:21 PM
Interesting. The NCAA has also been nice to archrivals Amherst and Williams by allowing both to host and putting them on opposite sides of the bracket . . . as Hope and Calvin would wish to be (but have never been).  Hmmmmmm
Quote from: Hwbb on March 12, 2013, 06:51:52 PM
Just a little fun fact from over on the NESCAC board, about an Amherst team that has now made five consecutive Final Fours:

Amherst road to the Final 4 over the last five seasons:

Tournament Home Games:  20
Neutral/Away Games:  0

Final Four Record:  3-5


Hmmmmmmm.......

Geography and bean-counters.  Michigan is a comparative island (not nearly as bad as the left coast or Texas, but an island nevertheless) compared to the d3 rich northeastern parts of the country.  Since the NCAA is allergic to plane flights, there are never enough tourney teams to justify two hosts 30 miles apart in western Michigan, but Amherst and Williams have a slew of teams who can be bused.

Such it has always been; such it will (probably) always be. :P

It is no different for the men.  One year, 7 of the top 8 d3hoops.com teams were all in the same quarter of the bracket!  This year, 4 of the top 12 met in rounds 2 and 3.  The hazards of the upper midwest being perennially the 'cream of the crop'. ::)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on March 13, 2013, 11:23:35 AM
Congratulations to Carissa Verkaik being named the Great Lakes region Player of the Year.

http://d3hoops.com/awards/all-region/2012-13/great-lakes-women

This is her 3rd straight year to be named Player of the Year for the region and her freshman year she was named as Rookie of the Year for the region.  Quite an accomplishment!

Also, congratulations to Liz Ellis who joins Carissa on the first team and Courtney Kust and Kelsey Campbell being named to third team.

Great representation from the MIAA this year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 13, 2013, 08:51:17 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 10, 2013, 04:41:22 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 10, 2013, 09:29:58 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 10, 2013, 01:16:26 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 10, 2013, 12:48:41 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 10, 2013, 12:02:49 AM
Quote from: calvinite on March 09, 2013, 11:22:33 PM
After the sting of this loss wears off, all the Hope women will have fond memories of a fantastic season with lots of highlights.

This is probably a stupid and pointless thing to say at this point, but good chance this game has different results if played in Holland -- and I think it's unfortunate that it wasn't played in Holland.

With both Hope and St. Thomas in the sectional, it was inevitable that the host would be either UWW or Simpson - no flights necessary, whereas either Holland or St. Paul would require a flight.  We are, alas, a tourney controlled by the bean counters.  Always have been, probably always will be.

Blame Calvin for letting St. Thomas get that far. :)

Ooh, Pat - you think Hope and Calvin need any additional fire to the rivalry?! ;D

You don't honestly think either of you could do anything that would affect The Rivalry, do you?

No, which is why I really had no qualms about saying it. :)

Ditto. ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 13, 2013, 09:04:17 PM
Now that the season is over for the MIAA (alas), time to think about next season.

How far will Calvin fall without Carissa Verkaik (IMHO, national POY).

In 2012, Hope was still very good without Carrie Snikkers (22-5, 11-3) but missed out on the national tourney.

In 2011, IWU was even better without Christina Solari, going to the FF that year, then winning it all in 2012.  But that year they finally graduated someone they couldn't replace (national POY Olivia Lett), and while still very good (18-8 against the toughest schedule in the nation, 11-3), they missed out on the national tourney.

Can Calvin continue without missing a beat, will they miss the national tourney (like Hope and IWU) for (hopefully for IWU!) just a year, or are they doomed to mediocrity for a few years?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 13, 2013, 09:49:30 PM
Somehow I think Hope and Calvin will be fine, maybe not top 5 all year fine, but fine.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 13, 2013, 09:50:08 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 13, 2013, 09:04:17 PM
Now that the season is over for the MIAA (alas), time to think about next season.

How far will Calvin fall without Carissa Verkaik (IMHO, national POY).

In 2012, Hope was still very good without Carrie Snikkers (22-5, 11-3) but missed out on the national tourney.

In 2011, IWU was even better without Christina Solari, going to the FF that year, then winning it all in 2012.  But that year they finally graduated someone they couldn't replace (national POY Olivia Lett), and while still very good (18-8 against the toughest schedule in the nation, 11-3), they missed out on the national tourney.

Can Calvin continue without missing a beat, will they miss the national tourney (like Hope and IWU) for (hopefully for IWU!) just a year, or are they doomed to mediocrity for a few years?

Calvin will miss a beat next season--maybe two. In addition to losing Verkaik, John Ross has five other seniors depart including front line players Hilbrands and Wolffis. That's a lot of size and experience going out the door at the same time. I don't expect the Lady Knights to be mediocre next year but I also don't see them being a major player on the national scene for 2013-14. I don't know what Ross has in the recruiting pipeline and if he gets a couple of solid contributors coming in, that might cause me to revise my opinion. Grand Rapids South Christian High School has an excellent team competing in the Class B semifinals Friday night and if Calvin can snap up a couple of their top players that would help. I've seen them play, they have a deep squad and I suspect Anna Timmer--a solid, heady player and one of that school's starters--will be at Knollcrest in the fall. She better; her dad is Calvin's AD. Unfortunately, I'm told Gaddy is expected to go to Hope. >:(

Angelique Gaddy is the top player on South Christian's team, a solid ball handler, good perimeter defender, and can hit the three. If she does play for Brian Morehouse I think she is the likely heir apparent to the spot being vacated by Liz Ellis.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on March 14, 2013, 07:39:30 AM
I agree with old knight and they also lose the fastest most disruptive player in Logan Marsh and their best outside shooter in Kelsey Irwin who holds the three point record in a career.   Points will be hard to come by, especially without all those rebounds and defense the front line was getting you.  Probably won't make the NCAA but should make conference tourney.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on March 14, 2013, 08:11:23 AM
I agree with all of the above and would add a couple things.  Calvin will not be very good next year.  All those seniors gone with nothing really to replace.  For the current group, doing well in mop up minutes does not equate to potential for next year.  So, unless the Knights bring in some major talent, they are in trouble.  A possible appearance in the MIAA tourney, maybe,  but they will have to beat a very good Olivet team, at least.
Hope will be good again.  They have height with experience and talent.  I heard that the PG from South is coming to Hope and legit.  If that is the case and you never know until you get on the floor, watch out!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 14, 2013, 09:45:26 AM
Quote from: oldknight on March 13, 2013, 09:50:08 PM
Angelique Gaddy is the top player on South Christian's team, a solid ball handler, good perimeter defender, and can hit the three. If she does play for Brian Morehouse I think she is the likely heir apparent to the spot being vacated by Liz Ellis.

And don't forget that Hope will have 2 Sophomores (with Freshman eligibility) joining next year - both who dealt with injuries this year and were not on the team.  Stephanie Snikkers (Carrie's baby sister) and Jordan Scholten (6'5" from Byron Center).  The future is full of Hope!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on March 14, 2013, 07:29:38 PM
Quote from: bballforever on March 14, 2013, 08:11:23 AM
I agree with all of the above and would add a couple things.  Calvin will not be very good next year.  All those seniors gone with nothing really to replace.   For the current group, doing well in mop up minutes does not equate to potential for next year.  So, unless the Knights bring in some major talent, they are in trouble.  A possible appearance in the MIAA tourney, maybe,  but they will have to beat a very good Olivet team, at least.
Hope will be good again.  They have height with experience and talent.  I heard that the PG from South is coming to Hope and legit.  If that is the case and you never know until you get on the floor, watch out!!

That's a pretty bold statement.  Yes, the look and play of Calvin will definitely change with the seniors they are graduating.  They will not have the same inside game they have had for the last 4 years, that is for sure with Verkaik, Hilbrands, and Wolffis gone.  But I think you must be forgetting they started 2 sophomores (B. Verkaik and Englehard) and a junior (Tripp).  They have the experience and it will be their turn to lead the team.  I'm not saying they will be a top 5 team all year, but I don't think an MIAA championship is out of the question at all.

I can't believe you said they "might" make the MIAA tournament.  Unless you saw something different than I did this year, they are still easily in the top 4 in the conference, and most likely top 2.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on March 14, 2013, 07:39:31 PM
Congratulations to Carissa Verkaik on another accomplishment!

Carissa has been named as a WBCA First Team All-American for the second year in a row.  She has also been named a finalist (1 of 3) for player of the year for the second year in a row.

All American team:
http://www.wbca.org/blog/index.cfm/2013/3/14/WBCA-announces--2013-Division-III-Coaches-AllAmerica-Team/

Finalist:
http://www.wbca.org/blog/index.cfm/2013/3/14/2013-State-FarmWBCA-NCAA-Division-III-Player-of-the-Year-finalists-named/

Calvin article:
http://www.calvin.edu/sports/news/comments/carissa-verkaik-named-state-farm-division-iii-all-american-finalist-for-pla/
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on March 15, 2013, 12:46:23 PM
Another award for Carissa Verkaik.  2013 Josten's Trophy winner! 

Great article on Calvin's site:
http://www.calvin.edu/sports/news/comments/carissa-verkaik-named-recipient-of-jostens-trophy-second-calvin-player-to-d/

D3hoops article:
http://d3hoops.com/notables/2013/03/verkaik-hunt-win-2013-jostens-trophy

Very impressive and well deserved!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 15, 2013, 03:41:35 PM
On his visit to this weekend's women's final at DeVos Fieldhouse, Hoopsville host Dave McHugh took a side trip today and appears to be planning a sneak attack on VanNoord Arena, snapping this photo:

https://twitter.com/d3hoopsville/status/312597110463799296/photo/1

I suspect his motives were pure though, possibly even visiting with this season's Jostens Trophy winner.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 15, 2013, 04:07:05 PM
John Ross gave us a short tour behind the scenes and Dave and I took some video that will end up on a future Hoopsville.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 15, 2013, 05:46:44 PM
Sorry, Pat and Dave, that you couldn't have experienced the electricity of a full house this weekend, had Hope made it.  It would have been such fun for you . . . and Hope fans.  But thanks for being here, and for all you do to support the spirit of DIII hoops.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 15, 2013, 04:07:05 PM
John Ross gave us a short tour behind the scenes and Dave and I took some video that will end up on a future Hoopsville.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 15, 2013, 11:00:31 PM
At least I got a chance to see both of Hope and Calvin's facilities, even though I can't technically count being at Calvin's since I didn't witness a game there. I will have to make a trip back.

While the Hope crowd might not have been here, the atmosphere has still been great and visiting Calvin was just the cherry on top of the weekend. We should have the men's or women's tournament dragged out every year so I can get to all final fours! Ok... maybe not.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 15, 2013, 11:22:10 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 15, 2013, 11:00:31 PM
At least I got a chance to see both of Hope and Calvin's facilities, even though I can't technically count being at Calvin's since I didn't witness a game there. I will have to make a trip back.

While the Hope crowd might not have been here, the atmosphere has still been great and visiting Calvin was just the cherry on top of the weekend. We should have the men's or women's tournament dragged out every year so I can get to all final fours! Ok... maybe not.

While Hope and IWU have hosted all the FFs since 2007, and have each won a title since 2006, and have each participated in an additional FF since then, either coincidentally or ironically (take your pick), neither has ever won a home-court FF (or even been in a home-court title game).  I'm a firm believer in home-court advantage, but it CAN be overrated! ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 16, 2013, 12:20:41 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 15, 2013, 11:22:10 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 15, 2013, 11:00:31 PM
At least I got a chance to see both of Hope and Calvin's facilities, even though I can't technically count being at Calvin's since I didn't witness a game there. I will have to make a trip back.

While the Hope crowd might not have been here, the atmosphere has still been great and visiting Calvin was just the cherry on top of the weekend. We should have the men's or women's tournament dragged out every year so I can get to all final fours! Ok... maybe not.

While Hope and IWU have hosted all the FFs since 2007, and have each won a title since 2006, and have each participated in an additional FF since then, either coincidentally or ironically (take your pick), neither has ever won a home-court FF (or even been in a home-court title game).  I'm a firm believer in home-court advantage, but it CAN be overrated! ;D

Hope sort of won one on their home court in 1990 Ypsi. :)

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 16, 2013, 01:30:30 AM
Quote from: sac on March 16, 2013, 12:20:41 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 15, 2013, 11:22:10 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 15, 2013, 11:00:31 PM
At least I got a chance to see both of Hope and Calvin's facilities, even though I can't technically count being at Calvin's since I didn't witness a game there. I will have to make a trip back.

While the Hope crowd might not have been here, the atmosphere has still been great and visiting Calvin was just the cherry on top of the weekend. We should have the men's or women's tournament dragged out every year so I can get to all final fours! Ok... maybe not.

While Hope and IWU have hosted all the FFs since 2007, and have each won a title since 2006, and have each participated in an additional FF since then, either coincidentally or ironically (take your pick), neither has ever won a home-court FF (or even been in a home-court title game).  I'm a firm believer in home-court advantage, but it CAN be overrated! ;D

Hope sort of won one on their home court in 1990 Ypsi. :)

OOPS! :-[

Didn't go far enough back in the archives.

Since IWU kinda sucked prior to Mia Smith's arrival (and took a while to be really good), I'm a newcomer to the women's game.  I didn't realize that Hope had ever hosted prior to the DeVos.

Man, if we had even had women's sports back then, what a home court advantage the Fred Young Fieldhouse would have been - NO shooting background at either end of the court, and an overflowing, rabid, right-on-top-of-you fan base! ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 16, 2013, 02:37:36 AM
Let's be honest though, three years - maybe four counting this year - Hope and IWU have been the rightful team to host the second weekend but were sent on the road each year and lost as late as the Elite 8 game... so while home court may not seem like a benefit, forcing teams that clearly deserved to be at home the second weekend on the road caused maybe a few opportunities for Hope and IWU to win a national championship at home.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 16, 2013, 07:27:57 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 16, 2013, 02:37:36 AM
Let's be honest though, three years - maybe four counting this year - Hope and IWU have been the rightful team to host the second weekend but were sent on the road each year and lost as late as the Elite 8 game... so while home court may not seem like a benefit, forcing teams that clearly deserved to be at home the second weekend on the road caused maybe a few opportunities for Hope and IWU to win a national championship at home.

No argument there.  For example, as great as UWW played yesterday vs Amherst I think they played much better last weekend on their home court.  Hope is something like 125-3 at DeVos.  Amherst is clearly a stronger team at LeFrak and has shown that in second weekend games, though they'll probably not ever host a Final Four there.  I understand the NCAA cost and mileage thing, but it is disappointing to see some teams not rewarded for their body of work during the season and early rounds.  As a Hope fan, it's easy to opine that the Flying Dutch would still be playing this year had the hosting gone according to seeding. 

But to be champion you have to ultimately beat everyone out on the court, regardless of who and where.  Congrats to UWW and DePauw, looks to be a great final.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 16, 2013, 04:01:54 PM
Well... my point has nothing to do with mileage and financials. Only once, I think this year, has any of those teams had those restraints... they should have hosted, period. They mileage wasn't a factor, neither was financials, and the rankings were in IWU and Hope's favor (or the numbers)... but the committee(s) sent them on the road. What I am getting at is that the decision seemed more like not letting those teams host every game of the tournament - and that is questionable at best.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on March 16, 2013, 04:04:41 PM
We've released our list of All-Americans. Congratulations to Carissa Verkaik who can add another major award to her trophy case.

http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2013/03/womens-all-americans
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 16, 2013, 04:09:38 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on March 16, 2013, 04:04:41 PM
We've released our list of All-Americans. Congratulations to Carissa Verkaik who can add another major award to her trophy case.

http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2013/03/womens-all-americans

Thanks.  That is great.  She represents Calvin and D3 women's basketball extremely well.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 16, 2013, 04:22:06 PM
Congratulations to Carissa, very well deserved and caps a fabulous career.

A little disappointed not to see Liz Ellis from Hope get any national recognition in any of the polls.  Having watched many of the better teams, its hard for me to imagine she's not among the top handul of guards in the nation.  But averaging 23 minutes in Hope's typical 10 man rotation and with her focus on defense, breaking the press and distributing the ball on a team with a balanced scoring system, it's tough to accumulate the kind of offensive stats that grab attention.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 17, 2013, 10:27:07 AM
Excellent championship game by DePauw yesterday.  Eerily similar to UW-Whitewater game at DeVos vs. Hope earlier in the season.  Hope jumped out to a 30-9 halftime lead with Whitewater starting out turning the ball over and Hope shooting well; second half played more even.  Would have loved the opportunity to see a Hope-Depauw game at DeVos but alas...

Anyway, congratulations to DePauw on the championship and a phenomenal season.  Glad to see they took home the championship, they richly deserved it through their season's body of work.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on March 18, 2013, 02:08:05 PM
I missed Hoopsville last evening, but did Dave, Pat and Gordon mention anything about what an AWESOME job that Hope College did on hosting the Final Four??!!   :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 18, 2013, 04:52:11 PM
LOL. A few times. :)

First hour of the show is almost entirely Holland, and Dave and Gordon and I end that hour with a wrapup of the weekend and women's basketball season from the DeVos concourse.
http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2012-13/march17
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on March 19, 2013, 08:25:38 AM
Another Player of the Year award for Carissa Verkaik.  She has repeated as the D3 News POY

http://www.calvin.edu/sports/news/comments/carissa-verkaik-repeats-as-womens-diii-news-player-of-the-year/


If Carissa wins the WBCA POY award in a few weeks she will have swept all of the awards for this season.  Can anyone remember that happening before?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 19, 2013, 09:37:50 AM
Quote from: gohope on March 18, 2013, 02:08:05 PM
I missed Hoopsville last evening, but did Dave, Pat and Gordon mention anything about what an AWESOME job that Hope College did on hosting the Final Four??!!   :)

I attended Friday night and I think Hope did a first rate job. I didn't see or experience anything that merited criticism. Kudo's to Tim Schoonveld, Brian Morehouse and everyone at Hope who had a part in the week's activities. Having experienced many games at DeVos Fieldhouse with Calvin in the building, I feared the atmosphere might be too subdued and a bit sterile, but it wasn't. While the size of the crowd was less than half of what we normally see for a Hope men's game, the assembled were very energetic and created a lot of excitement. Of course, the excitement and quality of two close games helped a lot.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on March 20, 2013, 01:34:02 PM
Final D3 rankings show Hope at 3 - alot of respect shown, they are ranked above two of the final four teams.

Calvin down to 14. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 20, 2013, 02:15:24 PM
Quote from: bballforever on March 20, 2013, 01:34:02 PM
Calvin down to 14.

Interesting to note that St Thomas is at 15
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope81 on March 20, 2013, 06:29:02 PM

I attended Friday night and I think Hope did a first rate job. I didn't see or experience anything that merited criticism. Kudo's to Tim Schoonveld, Brian Morehouse and everyone at Hope who had a part in the week's activities. Having experienced many games at DeVos Fieldhouse with Calvin in the building, I feared the atmosphere might be too subdued and a bit sterile, but it wasn't. While the size of the crowd was less than half of what we normally see for a Hope men's game, the assembled were very energetic and created a lot of excitement. Of course, the excitement and quality of two close games helped a lot.
[/quote]


Thanks for the kind words and I'm glad you enjoyed the time.  Just to be clear though, while Schoonie and the other 70 plus volunteers and staff at Hope played a HUGE part in making the tournament enjoyable, the person that does most of the planning is tournament director and co-athletic director Eva Dean Folkert.  Course for her it is getting old hat after doing now 4 bball national championships and 1 volleyball and 1 swimming.  Looking forward to the volleyball national championship again in the fall as well.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: anchor on March 21, 2013, 09:04:33 PM
Final top 25.  Hope #3.  Congrats Flying Dutch.  Is it possible to reload for next year or will it be a rebuilding year?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mark_reichert on March 23, 2013, 04:42:54 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 16, 2013, 02:37:36 AM
Let's be honest though, three years - maybe four counting this year - Hope and IWU have been the rightful team to host the second weekend but were sent on the road each year and lost as late as the Elite 8 game... so while home court may not seem like a benefit, forcing teams that clearly deserved to be at home the second weekend on the road caused maybe a few opportunities for Hope and IWU to win a national championship at home.

You know, it's not that hard to check the playoff archives. ::)

In 2010, Illinois Wesleyan hosted all three weekends, but thanks to a one point loss to Stevens Point, only played through the third round.

I haven't taken time to figure out from what data prior to 1999 is available whether this happened when the Final Four host was selected from one of the four participants.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 23, 2013, 05:27:23 PM
Hope hosted all the way in 1990.  Although the final four was not on the women's true home court when it was moved to the Holland Civic Center to accommodate more fans.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 23, 2013, 07:54:15 PM
Quote from: anchor on March 21, 2013, 09:04:33 PM
Final top 25.  Hope #3.  Congrats Flying Dutch.  Is it possible to reload for next year or will it be a rebuilding year?

Depends on what you mean by reload.  Calvin and Hope both lose a ton of talent to graduation.  Not sure either will be as strong as this year at a national level, depends on offseason improvement of returning players and quality of incoming recruits.  Without any insight on recruits, I'd make Hope the favorite for league title next year.  One possible starting five could be Llorens, McAfee, Doell, Berry and Kelly; all were starters or key contributors in the regular rotation this year.  This five would include three players at over 6', a 3 point sniper in Berry who can also make the spectacular assist; a very solid all around guard in Kelly; a low post scorer in Llorens, and two versatile, long forwards/wings in Doell and McAfee.  That five lacks a true point guard however; that will come from the continued development of LaReau, who got some important minutes in big situations spelling Ellis this year,  and/or from recruits.

But the great thing about D3 is you just don't know what to expect until the season starts and you see who shows up for tryouts....
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on March 27, 2013, 08:20:18 AM
There was a nice article in the Holland Sentinel about the future of Hope women's bball.  Moorehouse sounds excited, lots of talent coming back.  Watch out Calvin and the rest of the MIAA.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 27, 2013, 09:03:34 AM
Here is a link to the aforementioned article:

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/sports/sports_hope/x1959361435/Dan-DAddona-Hope-womens-basketball-must-replace-stellar-senior-class
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 27, 2013, 12:04:55 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 27, 2013, 09:03:34 AM
Here is a link to the aforementioned article:

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/sports/sports_hope/x1959361435/Dan-DAddona-Hope-womens-basketball-must-replace-stellar-senior-class

Thanks for the link FDF.  I think it is very safe to assume that Hope is going to be the team to beat just about every year in the MIAA.  Calvin has had very competitive teams over the years, and at some positions superior players.  Calvin has to forget what the last 4 years were, and move on with current, and new players.  Ross always has spoken highly of his bench players, and many of them did well when given a chance.  Next years players have seen lots of floor time, and they also had to practice against this years starters so it isn't exactly like either Calvin or Hope are start up programs.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sunkiss on March 28, 2013, 07:30:26 PM
Cant wait !
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on May 04, 2013, 12:24:24 AM
Nov 19  Hope at Calvin
Feb 1.  Calvin at Hope
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 04, 2013, 12:41:57 AM
Quote from: sac on May 04, 2013, 12:24:24 AM
Nov 19  Hope at Calvin
Feb 1.  Calvin at Hope

Nov. 19? That early?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on May 08, 2013, 08:39:10 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on May 04, 2013, 12:41:57 AM
Quote from: sac on May 04, 2013, 12:24:24 AM
Nov 19  Hope at Calvin
Feb 1.  Calvin at Hope

Nov. 19? That early?

The game at Calvin was originally scheduled by the league during exam times and did not work.  This was the only other option they could both find.  It is unfortunate it is this early, but could throw in some new wrinkles I guess.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on May 09, 2013, 05:14:46 PM
BCAM Academic honors for both Carissa Verkaik and Liz Ellis

http://www.bcam.org/sites/default/files/13WomensCollegeTeam.pdf
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on May 10, 2013, 10:27:20 AM
Carissa Verkaik has been named Michigan's Female College Athlete of the Year by the Detroit Athletic Club:

http://www.calvin.edu/sports/news/comments/carissa-verkaik-named-michigan-female-college-athlete-of-year-by-detroit-at/
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on May 14, 2013, 01:21:57 PM
Recommended rule changes,  http://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2013-05-09/ncaa-committees-recommend-rule-changes-mens-womens-basketba


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on May 23, 2013, 09:40:48 AM
Calvin's 2013-14 schedule has been posted:

http://www.calvin.edu/sports/womens/basketball/schedule.htm
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on May 23, 2013, 09:46:21 AM
Quote from: bballfan13 on May 23, 2013, 09:40:48 AM
Calvin's 2013-14 schedule has been posted:

http://www.calvin.edu/sports/womens/basketball/schedule.htm

Lists both games vs. Hope to be Calvin home games?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on May 23, 2013, 07:20:34 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on May 23, 2013, 09:46:21 AM
Quote from: bballfan13 on May 23, 2013, 09:40:48 AM
Calvin's 2013-14 schedule has been posted:

http://www.calvin.edu/sports/womens/basketball/schedule.htm

Lists both games vs. Hope to be Calvin home games?

The Feb 1 game is in Holland.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on June 05, 2013, 02:50:09 PM
Any promising freshmen coming into the MIAA this year?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on June 10, 2013, 09:59:26 AM
Hope preliminary schedule is posted:

http://www.hope.edu/pr/athletics/wbb/
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on June 26, 2013, 12:53:52 PM
10 second timeline rule approved for the women.  Pro tip:  recruit a good point guard.

http://m.freep.com/Sports/article?a=2013306250063&f=1233
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on June 27, 2013, 12:24:46 PM
Quote from: sac on June 26, 2013, 12:53:52 PM
10 second timeline rule approved for the women.  Pro tip:  recruit a good point guard.

http://m.freep.com/Sports/article?a=2013306250063&f=1233

I LOVE that decision - bring on the press
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on June 27, 2013, 09:28:35 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on June 27, 2013, 12:24:46 PM
Quote from: sac on June 26, 2013, 12:53:52 PM
10 second timeline rule approved for the women.  Pro tip:  recruit a good point guard.

http://m.freep.com/Sports/article?a=2013306250063&f=1233

I LOVE that decision - bring on the press

Me, too.  IWU has pressed for years - gonna see some 10-second violations (or turnovers trying to avoid such) this season! ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on July 18, 2013, 09:11:09 PM
Team GPA's honored by the WBCA
http://www.wbca.org/blog/index.cfm/2013/7/18/WBCA-Announces-2013-Academic-Top-25-Team-Honor-Rolls/

#7  Hope  3.546
#20  Calvin  3.485
#22  Olivet  3.479
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Calvinhoops on July 21, 2013, 09:31:23 AM
Congratulations to Ashley Bauman, Liz Ellis, Courtney Kust of Hope and Kelsey Irwin of Calvin as the only women basketball players in the MIAA to receive all academic honor roll honors all four years of their career!  Great job on and off the court ladies!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on August 16, 2013, 07:45:42 PM
Apologies for the off-topic post, but Calvin is #2 and Hope #5 in preseason volleyball polls.  Nice to see the MIAA well represented in national polls in both volleyball and hoops the past few years....
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on August 27, 2013, 10:02:58 AM
The 2012 - 2013 NCAA women's basketball attendance has been released:

#1 - Hope
#5 - Calvin

Congrats to both schools on making the top 5.  These figures have been consistent for a few years, which is great for the league and West Michigan.  The MIAA also finished #4 overall.  Taking a quick glance both Hope and Calvin beat a number of D1 schools for average attendance.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/w_basketball_RB/reports/Attend/13att.pdf
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on August 27, 2013, 11:34:37 AM
Quote from: bballfan13 on August 27, 2013, 10:02:58 AM
The 2012 - 2013 NCAA women's basketball attendance has been released:

#1 - Hope
#5 - Calvin

Congrats to both schools on making the top 5.  These figures have been consistent for a few years, which is great for the league and West Michigan.  The MIAA also finished #4 overall.  Taking a quick glance both Hope and Calvin beat a number of D1 schools for average attendance.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/w_basketball_RB/reports/Attend/13att.pdf

Yeah, and no small number either. 

Hope had a higher attendance than 223 D1 schools (Hope would have been 124th in D1).
Calvin had a higher attendance than 147 D1 schools (Calvin would have been 200th in D1). 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on September 17, 2013, 06:21:00 PM
Wow, it's off topic but had to post that #1 ranked, 12-0 Calvin is hosting #2 ranked, 12-0 Hope tonight in women's volleyball.  Someone has to lose but MIAA is a big winner either way!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on September 18, 2013, 12:14:31 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on September 17, 2013, 06:21:00 PM
Wow, it's off topic but had to post that #1 ranked, 12-0 Calvin is hosting #2 ranked, 12-0 Hope tonight in women's volleyball.  Someone has to lose but MIAA is a big winner either way!

Great win for Calvin last night and what a great atmosphere! 

MIAA has to be happy with the top 2 teams in the country being from the league.  As always, will be fun to watch this year and how these teams do in the tournament.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on October 02, 2013, 09:01:18 AM
Well - it is almost time to get started.  Hope seems loaded to me.  Calvin needs to replace alot including bench players.  Olivet seems loaded too.

We can't wait and we get to see Hope/Calvin very early in the season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on October 02, 2013, 06:09:39 PM
Quote from: bballforever on October 02, 2013, 09:01:18 AM
Well - it is almost time to get started.  Hope seems loaded to me.  Calvin needs to replace alot including bench players.  Olivet seems loaded too.

We can't wait and we get to see Hope/Calvin very early in the season.

Looking forward to the season too.  I agree, Olivet should be very good and could well challenge for a spot in the top two.  Both Calvin and Hope lost a ton of talent.  Calvin's front line was decimated by graduation with Verkaik, Wolffis and Hilbrands all gone but they have strong guards returning led by Engelhard.  Obviously, replacing Verkaik with one player is not possible; several players would have to really step up their games.  Hope's graduation losses were more balanced so their returning strength may also be more balanced but losing all-MIAA type players like Ellis, Kust and Kussmaul is hard to deal with.  Replacing Ellis will be especially tough, she was both the catalyst of their defense and a one-woman press break.  As is so often the case, the strength and readiness of the incoming players may make the difference.  Haven't heard much about either team's recruits.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on October 21, 2013, 03:34:30 PM
Varsity roster is up:

http://athletics.hope.edu/sports/wbkb/2013-14/roster
Freshmen:
   Gaddy    5'5" PG
   Perkins   5'9" PG
   Scholten 6'5" C     Injured foot last year - did not play
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on October 23, 2013, 12:42:03 PM
Hope Flying Dutch preview article:  http://www.hollandsentinel.com/newsnow/x919096605/Hope-College-womens-basketball-set-for-another-special-season?zc_p=0

Revised roster with another frosh added:  http://athletics.hope.edu/sports/wbkb/2013-14/roster
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on October 25, 2013, 01:22:58 PM
Calvin women's roster out yet?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on October 25, 2013, 02:39:57 PM
Quote from: bballforever on October 25, 2013, 01:22:58 PM
Calvin women's roster out yet?
No. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on October 29, 2013, 08:16:30 PM
Hope 4th, Calvin 12th in WBCA preseason poll.  Last year's finalists DePauw and UWW are 1-2, with Amherst #3.

http://www.wbca.org/blog/index.cfm/2013/10/29/20132014-PreSeason-DIII-Poll/
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on October 30, 2013, 03:25:34 PM
Calvin 12th in country??
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on October 31, 2013, 11:37:22 AM
Quote from: bballforever on October 30, 2013, 03:25:34 PM
Calvin 12th in country??

I wouldn't put too much stock into any of the preseason rankings.  Voters really don't know what teams are going to look like this year and just take a stab at it.  Based on what Calvin and Hope both lost last year I think these rankings are high for both teams.  But we won't know more until the first few weeks of the season are played.  That being said I would not mind seeing these teams ranked highly again as they are fun to watch  :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on October 31, 2013, 06:50:49 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on October 31, 2013, 11:37:22 AM
Quote from: bballforever on October 30, 2013, 03:25:34 PM
Calvin 12th in country??

I wouldn't put too much stock into any of the preseason rankings.  Voters really don't know what teams are going to look like this year and just take a stab at it.  Based on what Calvin and Hope both lost last year I think these rankings are high for both teams.  But we won't know more until the first few weeks of the season are played.  That being said I would not mind seeing these teams ranked highly again as they are fun to watch  :)

No doubt these rankings are suspect and based mainly on last year, coach's and team's general reputation and past performance.  A post over on the NESCAC board talks of how Williams lost 4 of top 5 scorers and the rest of the projected starters combined for 6 ppg last year, yet Williams is #9.

That said, both Hope and Calvin have talent and some size and I think it feasible they could earn such rankings over the year.  I know less about Calvin but Hope appears to have very legitimate scoring threats at every position, probably three six footers starting, Berry is deadly from outside (52% last year) and she's not the only shooter, and they will play Morehouse defense.  I heard good things about their scrimmage vs. Cornerstone and the play of some of the recruits there.  But they lost some exceptional seniors so this group is starting from scratch and has to prove the potential on the court.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: goodknight on November 02, 2013, 11:34:30 PM
Quote from: realist on October 25, 2013, 02:39:57 PM
Quote from: bballforever on October 25, 2013, 01:22:58 PM
Calvin women's roster out yet?
No.

Now it is:
http://www.calvin.edu/sports/womens/basketball/roster.htm

Along with an outlook in the post-Carissa era:
http://www.calvin.edu/sports/news/comments/2013-14-calvin-womens-basketball-outlook/

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 03, 2013, 06:22:56 AM
Quote from: goodknight on November 02, 2013, 11:34:30 PM
Quote from: realist on October 25, 2013, 02:39:57 PM
Quote from: bballforever on October 25, 2013, 01:22:58 PM
Calvin women's roster out yet?
No.

Now it is:
http://www.calvin.edu/sports/womens/basketball/roster.htm

Along with an outlook in the post-Carissa era:
http://www.calvin.edu/sports/news/comments/2013-14-calvin-womens-basketball-outlook/



Clearly he's trying to temper expectations and that's understandable, but I don't think things are quite as dire as he makes it sound.  They're returning some experienced players and Englehard is an all MIAA guard.  Lots will depend on if and who else steps up their game but I think Calvin will be tough for anyone to play.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 06, 2013, 07:05:25 PM
Preseason poll of coaches puts Hope as solid favorite to win MIAA, with Calvin second and Olivet third.  If I figured this right, it looks like Hope was a unanimous selection with the Hope coach splitting his first place vote between Calvin and Olivet.

Poll Results (First-place votes in parenthesis):
1. Hope (8) 8 pts.
2. Calvin (1/2) 15.
3. Olivet (1/2) 21.
4. Adrian 38.
5. Albion 41.
6. Trine 42.
7. Alma 43.
8. Saint Mary's 51.
9. Kalamazoo 64.

I'm thinking Olivet could be very tough, with MVP candidate Campbell at guard, 6'4" Lang in the post, and several other seasoned players.  Depth could be a challenge, the Comets show only ten players on their roster.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on November 08, 2013, 09:36:03 AM
Anyone else think it's a bit ridiculous to split your vote?  Never heard of that.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 08, 2013, 10:03:48 AM
Quote from: bballfan13 on November 08, 2013, 09:36:03 AM
Anyone else think it's a bit ridiculous to split your vote?  Never heard of that.
I guess I don't see the problem, just last year there were conference co-champions.  There have been numerous ties for 2nd as well.  Sure, it's not usual for a coach to vote that way but since conference ties happen all the time, I don't see why a coach can't predict that.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on November 08, 2013, 11:53:17 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on November 08, 2013, 10:03:48 AM
Quote from: bballfan13 on November 08, 2013, 09:36:03 AM
Anyone else think it's a bit ridiculous to split your vote?  Never heard of that.
I guess I don't see the problem, just last year there were conference co-champions.  There have been numerous ties for 2nd as well.  Sure, it's not usual for a coach to vote that way but since conference ties happen all the time, I don't see why a coach can't predict that.

Never said a coach can't do that, just thought it was odd.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 08, 2013, 11:57:31 AM
Quote from: bballfan13 on November 08, 2013, 11:53:17 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on November 08, 2013, 10:03:48 AM
Quote from: bballfan13 on November 08, 2013, 09:36:03 AM
Anyone else think it's a bit ridiculous to split your vote?  Never heard of that.
I guess I don't see the problem, just last year there were conference co-champions.  There have been numerous ties for 2nd as well.  Sure, it's not usual for a coach to vote that way but since conference ties happen all the time, I don't see why a coach can't predict that.

Never said a coach can't do that, just thought it was odd.

My old brain is telling me it has been done in the MIAA before, think it was on the men's side - just can't seem to find anything to support that memory. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on November 15, 2013, 08:06:40 AM
Season starts today. :)

Not much chatter on the site these days.  Go Hope and Go Calvin.

Let's get it started....................
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NACfan215 on November 15, 2013, 12:01:20 PM
Any predictions/insight into the Calvin v Lakeland matchup tonight?  An avid NACC follower would like to hear from the MIAA loyals. Thanks
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 15, 2013, 02:44:34 PM
Hope's a winner over Bluffton 83-59
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 15, 2013, 06:08:43 PM
Quote from: NACfan215 on November 15, 2013, 12:01:20 PM
Any predictions/insight into the Calvin v Lakeland matchup tonight?  An avid NACC follower would like to hear from the MIAA loyals. Thanks

I know nothing of Lakeland so can't give a prediction, but Calvin will be down a bit compared to recent years.  Kind of goes without saying when you lose a once in a lifetim eplayer like Carissa Vrkaik.  But they lost a ton of talent not just Verkaik, especially in the front court.  As a result of that, their coach has said they will play a more up tempo game this year.  Guard Engelhard is one of the top returning players.  They will be very solid, but in my opinion not at the elite level of the past few years,
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 15, 2013, 11:33:20 PM
Olivet 91 Kenyon 80

The Comets broke some records tonight.
http://www.olivetcomets.com/sports/wbkb/2013-14/releases/20131115dwxa02
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 16, 2013, 07:10:18 PM
Hope 71
North Central 30

At the half!!!!!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 16, 2013, 07:43:55 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on November 16, 2013, 07:10:18 PM
Hope 71
North Central 30

At the half!!!!!!!

The Hope record is 118 against Tri-State in 2005
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 16, 2013, 07:46:14 PM
44 turnovers is....a lot
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on November 16, 2013, 08:39:23 PM
North Central plays the Grinnell "system" I'm pretty sure. Looks like it backfired tonight.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 16, 2013, 09:28:13 PM
Hope 126 North Central 56
http://northcentralcardinals.com/boxscore.aspx?path=wbball&id=2458


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 16, 2013, 11:48:33 PM
Almost forgot Tuesday is the Hope at Calvin game already, and just a week later Hope plays at Olivet.  Big week for the Dutch.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 17, 2013, 07:45:16 AM
Quote from: bballfan13 on November 16, 2013, 08:39:23 PM
North Central plays the Grinnell "system" I'm pretty sure. Looks like it backfired tonight.

Was at the game, could have been much worse.  First time I've seen a system team, can't see how it would ever work against a team with decent players and good coaching.  Hard to tell too much from the Dutch's opening weekend other than they are very balanced and quite deep. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on November 17, 2013, 12:35:17 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on November 17, 2013, 07:45:16 AM
Quote from: bballfan13 on November 16, 2013, 08:39:23 PM
North Central plays the Grinnell "system" I'm pretty sure. Looks like it backfired tonight.

Was at the game, could have been much worse.  First time I've seen a system team, can't see how it would ever work against a team with decent players and good coaching.  Hard to tell too much from the Dutch's opening weekend other than they are very balanced and quite deep.

How would you compare them to last year from what you have seen already?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 17, 2013, 05:04:47 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on November 17, 2013, 12:35:17 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on November 17, 2013, 07:45:16 AM
Quote from: bballfan13 on November 16, 2013, 08:39:23 PM
North Central plays the Grinnell "system" I'm pretty sure. Looks like it backfired tonight.

Was at the game, could have been much worse.  First time I've seen a system team, can't see how it would ever work against a team with decent players and good coaching.  Hard to tell too much from the Dutch's opening weekend other than they are very balanced and quite deep.

How would you compare them to last year from what you have seen already?

Really hard to compare to last year and also hard to draw too many conclusions from this weekend, but I think the Dutch will be very good.  How good compared to last year I don't know, but that would be hard for any team to match.  Some observations:

- No replacing Liz Ellis at PG, especially her defensive intensity and ability to disrupt the opponents offense from even being started.  But frosh Angelique Gaddy started at point and was very good.  A few freshman mistakes but not many.  She handled North Central's system pressure well, led the team in assists and displayed generally good decision making.  If she keeps working she's going to be VERY good before she's done.

- Anna Kaufmann returned after a year off and looks much improved, leading Hope in scoring the first game.  The guard position was a question mark in my mind going into the season but with the emergence of Gaddy and Kaufmann added to two already excellent guards in captains Kelley and Berry, the guard position appears to be deep and solid.

- There's probably no one that can create a shot or instant offense like Kust could do last year, but if anything I think this year's team is more balanced and deeper than last.  Six footers Llorens, Doell and McAfee all seem improved after being starters or key contributors last year.   Heck, if you can bring a player like Doell off the bench, you have some depth.

The Dutch didn't play anyone this weekend with a real post game, so the interior defense has not been tested yet.  Lange from Olivet will surely do that and I'm sure Calvin will as well even without Carissa.

Overall, the Dutch performed at a higher level than I expected for opening weekend.  How that translates to the rest of the season?  They will clearly be very good, maybe elite but I need to see more.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 18, 2013, 09:10:11 AM
Anyone see Calvin or Olivet this weekend and have any thoughts?  I'm sure Calvin is solid as usual and Olivet is looking more and more like a title contender too, with a monster weekend from Lange coupled with very capable Campbell.  With two MIAA POY type players, one inside and one outside, on paper Olivet is looking very tough.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on November 18, 2013, 10:17:08 AM
Looked at all teams stats and "where is the defense?"
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on November 18, 2013, 10:52:30 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on November 17, 2013, 05:04:47 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on November 17, 2013, 12:35:17 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on November 17, 2013, 07:45:16 AM
Quote from: bballfan13 on November 16, 2013, 08:39:23 PM
North Central plays the Grinnell "system" I'm pretty sure. Looks like it backfired tonight.

Was at the game, could have been much worse.  First time I've seen a system team, can't see how it would ever work against a team with decent players and good coaching.  Hard to tell too much from the Dutch's opening weekend other than they are very balanced and quite deep.

How would you compare them to last year from what you have seen already?

Really hard to compare to last year and also hard to draw too many conclusions from this weekend, but I think the Dutch will be very good.  How good compared to last year I don't know, but that would be hard for any team to match.  Some observations:

- No replacing Liz Ellis at PG, especially her defensive intensity and ability to disrupt the opponents offense from even being started.  But frosh Angelique Gaddy started at point and was very good.   A few freshman mistakes but not many.  She handled North Central's system pressure well, led the team in assists and displayed generally good decision making.  If she keeps working she's going to be VERY good before she's done.



I saw Gaddy play a couple of times in high school and when I learned she was going to Hope, I knew the Flying Dutch had their replacement at point. I have a lot of respect for Ellis who was a wonderful player, but I think Gaddy will quickly prove to be at least her equal.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 18, 2013, 12:09:33 PM
Quote from: oldknight on November 18, 2013, 10:52:30 AM

I saw Gaddy play a couple of times in high school and when I learned she was going to Hope, I knew the Flying Dutch had their replacement at point. I have a lot of respect for Ellis who was a wonderful player, but I think Gaddy will quickly prove to be at least her equal.

Agreed, she seems to have all the tools.  Ellis had unmatched, sustained defensive intensity and played at a very high speed, but Gaddy is still brand new to the college game.  Watch out when she has a little more experience....
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on November 18, 2013, 12:19:26 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on November 18, 2013, 09:10:11 AM
Anyone see Calvin or Olivet this weekend and have any thoughts?  I'm sure Calvin is solid as usual and Olivet is looking more and more like a title contender too, with a monster weekend from Lange coupled with very capable Campbell.  With two MIAA POY type players, one inside and one outside, on paper Olivet is looking very tough.
I did not see the game.  In his post game comments Ross mentioned the "new" full court pressing defense Calvin is implementing this year.  This is a major change, and one I think will pay dividends in the future.  Calvin has struggled against teams that used pressing or pressure defense, and I always thought if we played or practiced that we would respond better when opponents hit us with it.  Time will tell.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 18, 2013, 12:20:11 PM
Quote from: bballforever on November 18, 2013, 10:17:08 AM
Looked at all teams stats and "where is the defense?"
Can't speak for the others, but I think Hope's defense is at its usual high level.  They gave up 59 to Bluffton, seems a little high but the game was over early and the end of the bench was playing in the first half and the entire roster played between 7-19 minutes.  The Dutch then gave up a very low 56 to "system" team North Central while making 32 steals and forcing 51 turnovers.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on November 18, 2013, 12:47:00 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on November 18, 2013, 12:20:11 PM
Quote from: bballforever on November 18, 2013, 10:17:08 AM
Looked at all teams stats and "where is the defense?"
Can't speak for the others, but I think Hope's defense is at its usual high level.  They gave up 59 to Bluffton, seems a little high but the game was over early and the end of the bench was playing in the first half and the entire roster played between 7-19 minutes.  The Dutch then gave up a very low 56 to "system" team North Central while making 32 steals and forcing 51 turnovers.

I would also think that Calvin is not included in this thought.  Only gave up 45 points on the road.  Very good.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 18, 2013, 01:14:15 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on November 18, 2013, 12:47:00 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on November 18, 2013, 12:20:11 PM
Quote from: bballforever on November 18, 2013, 10:17:08 AM
Looked at all teams stats and "where is the defense?"
Can't speak for the others, but I think Hope's defense is at its usual high level.  They gave up 59 to Bluffton, seems a little high but the game was over early and the end of the bench was playing in the first half and the entire roster played between 7-19 minutes.  The Dutch then gave up a very low 56 to "system" team North Central while making 32 steals and forcing 51 turnovers.

I would also think that Calvin is not included in this thought.  Only gave up 45 points on the road.  Very good.

Yes, looks like the new style mentioned by Realist worked very nicely!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on November 18, 2013, 01:17:12 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on November 18, 2013, 01:14:15 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on November 18, 2013, 12:47:00 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on November 18, 2013, 12:20:11 PM
Quote from: bballforever on November 18, 2013, 10:17:08 AM
Looked at all teams stats and "where is the defense?"
Can't speak for the others, but I think Hope's defense is at its usual high level.  They gave up 59 to Bluffton, seems a little high but the game was over early and the end of the bench was playing in the first half and the entire roster played between 7-19 minutes.  The Dutch then gave up a very low 56 to "system" team North Central while making 32 steals and forcing 51 turnovers.

I would also think that Calvin is not included in this thought.  Only gave up 45 points on the road.  Very good.

Yes, looks like the new style mentioned by Realist worked very nicely!

During the preseason gathering of winter sports coaches earlier this month, Coach Ross spoke at length about the new look he was going to sport with this year's team. The change is driven by the fact that for the first time since he began coaching at Calvin, Ross does not have a dominant post scorer. Previously he had such players that included Winkle, Harris and Verkaik, and having talented post scorers required that Calvin's offense accommodate their talents. This year's team required that he reconsider his approach to Calvin basketball. The reason the Lady Knights only gave up 45 to Lakeland is because Calvin forced an impressive 35 turnovers. However, Coach Ross was disappointed that Calvin could only score 65 and said his team needed to finish better for their pressure to be truly effective. We shall see how well a full court game works against Hope who I believe is far superior to Lakeland. I have my doubts that at this early stage in its development, that Calvin's new look will do as much damage to Hope as it did to Lakeland. In fact, Hope may actually like the up tempo approach tomorrow night.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on November 19, 2013, 09:26:03 AM
Hope vs Calvin tonight.  Kind of sucks that it is so early but maybe one team can take the other by surprise. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 19, 2013, 09:46:22 AM
Quote from: bballforever on November 19, 2013, 09:26:03 AM
Hope vs Calvin tonight.  Kind of sucks that it is so early but maybe one team can take the other by surprise. 

Agree, I don't like that it's so early.  Not enough build up and not enough time to have much of an opinion or prediction of how it will go.  But it is Hope/Calvin so I'm sure it will be competitive and hard fought in any case....
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NACfan215 on November 19, 2013, 11:54:39 AM
I was at the Calvin v LC game, yes it was a 20 point game at the end, however it was a much closer game than it ended up, only an 8 point lead at halftime.  Calvin did run a fullcourt press for the entire game creating a 35-16 turnover differential. However, that was against an LC team that is playing young and inexperienced gaurds, particularly the PG with starting a freshman and having a sophomore as a backup.  Calvin scored 31 points off of the 35 TO's, you cut those TO's down and take away half the points off TO's and this is a couple possession game at the end.  If any team they face has experienced ball handlers and can easily break the press then Calvin will struggle to win, their halfcourt D is not as good and their Offense was suspect at best (again against a team who is also weak on defense).  I believe if this game was a half court only game then LC would have had the advantage.  With that said, if Hope is as good as people anticipate, then I believe they win by 20+ tonight.  I would find it hard to believe that Calvin remains a top 25 team for the remainder of the year... but I have been known to be wrong before, lol.  Hopefully that gives a little insight from someone who saw some live action last weekend.  Good luck to both teams the rest of the year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on November 19, 2013, 12:59:34 PM
Quote from: NACfan215 on November 19, 2013, 11:54:39 AM
I was at the Calvin v LC game, yes it was a 20 point game at the end, however it was a much closer game than it ended up, only an 8 point lead at halftime.  Calvin did run a fullcourt press for the entire game creating a 35-16 turnover differential. However, that was against an LC team that is playing young and inexperienced gaurds, particularly the PG with starting a freshman and having a sophomore as a backup.  Calvin scored 31 points off of the 35 TO's, you cut those TO's down and take away half the points off TO's and this is a couple possession game at the end.  If any team they face has experienced ball handlers and can easily break the press then Calvin will struggle to win, their halfcourt D is not as good and their Offense was suspect at best (again against a team who is also weak on defense).  I believe if this game was a half court only game then LC would have had the advantage.  With that said, if Hope is as good as people anticipate, then I believe they win by 20+ tonight.  I would find it hard to believe that Calvin remains a top 25 team for the remainder of the year... but I have been known to be wrong before, lol.  Hopefully that gives a little insight from someone who saw some live action last weekend.  Good luck to both teams the rest of the year.

I was at the game as well and didn't see it exactly the same way as you.  But let's be honest, I was wearing my Calvin glasses and it sounds like you might have been wearing your Lakeland glasses   :)

I think the end result was reasonable to how the game went.  Yes, if LC cuts down those turnovers then Calvin doesn't get as many points off of them, but that is what the full-court press is designed to do.  Calvin accomplished the goal of winning the turnover battle and did it impressively.  Now the season is still extremely young and being the first game for both teams can play into the result as well.  Both teams definitely have things to improve on and that is expected.  Calvin is far from a finished product as they have changed their whole system.  I thought the press looked good for being their first game and only really practicing it for a few weeks.  It is completely different than anything Calvin has run under Coach Ross.  Their offense is also new this year as they do not have the dominate post play this year as they have had in the past.  Calvin missed their first 7 shots the other night and it kept the game close at the beginning.  Their shots started to fall but nothing was consistent.  Their shooting percentage won't be as high as it has been the past few years because they won't generate as many points in the paint.  But I think the percentage will go up from the other night.

I thought Lakeland was a young team that has things to improve on just like Calvin, but I think the better team won by the margin that showed. 

That being said, Lakeland College were great hosts and the fans and people around the college and towns were great!

As for the Calvin vs Hope matchup tonight I think Hope has a slight edge.  They looked impressive when they should have last weekend in the game against Bluffton.  From my perspective you almost have to throw out the game against North Central due to the system they run.  Don't get me wrong and think I'm discounting the way and margin by which they won the game, it is just more of an outlier for comparison IMHO.  They did what they had to in that game, but it really isn't the same.  Both teams still have things to improve on but I think Calvin has a bit more due to the big changes they have made.  As a fan of the Rivalry I wish the game was being played a little further into the season to have more polished teams, but you have to be ready for any game in the season.  Here's to wishing for a great game being played tonight!

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on November 19, 2013, 07:53:25 PM
Lady Knights take an early 18-3 lead over Hope less than 6 minutes in. Thus far, Hope seems to be struggling to adjust to the new look, helter-skelter style Calvin has adopted.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on November 19, 2013, 09:20:44 PM
While I don't like the final score I am very pleased by what I saw from Calvin.  The Hope we saw in the second half is the real Hope, and when they play both halves they are going to be very good.  I give Calvin lots of credit, and I also think this was a good game for Hope.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 19, 2013, 09:40:41 PM
I hadn't seen Calvin yet this year but if they continue to build on tonight's play, they'll be just fine.  I'm not sure the press helped them much against Hope but it didn't hurt them either and it will surely cause trouble for lots of teams.  The eye opener for me was how well the Knights moved the ball, especially with dribble penetration then kicking out to the corners, and the points they racked up.  They had a lot of open shots against what is normally a much tighter Hope defense.  Hope started out very poorly, looking confused on defense and with far too much one on one on the offensive side.  They looked nothing like the team I saw this past weekend, though of course that was probably mostly due to Calvin.  But in the end, I have to give them lots of respect for coming back from a big early deficit, settling down and pulling out the win on Calvin's court.  Overall, I'm sure this game gives both teams a lot of insight on what they have to work on and what they can build on.  Definitely not a work of art, but a good game for both teams.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 20, 2013, 01:33:56 AM
Pretty impressive to come back from 18 down on your rivals court.  Hope didn't panic or get down on themselves, they just kept playing.

The starts by both teams were opposite ends of the spectrum.  Up to the point Calvin led 27-9 with 8 minutes left in the first half,  Hope was 4-20 while Calvin was 12-21 which actually included a stretch of missing 4 in a row.

From that point on Hope really dominated the next 20 minutes of game play outscoring the Knights 58-30 to lead by 10 with 7 minutes left.  Pretty even the rest of the way yet Hope still needed a clutch 3 from Brittany Berry to regain the comfort of a 6 point lead with a couple minutes left.  Surprised Calvin didn't try more 3's down the stretch, Hope seemed content to give up the easy 2's and maintain a 2 possession lead.

Hope does not shoot it well in the first half at Calvin
http://miaa.org/wbb/stats/1213/0112cahp.htm
http://miaa.org/wbb/stats/1112/1712caho.htm

For November 20 I was impressed with the level of play.
Angelique Gaddy is a keeper, she had some veteran buckets in this one.
Rebekah Llorens 5th foul was horse crap!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 20, 2013, 10:45:34 AM
Rebounding margin tells the story pretty well.  Calvin outshot Hope percentage wise (45% to 41%) and the turnovers were pretty even (15 for Calvin, 12 for Hope).  Rebounding margin was +18 for Hope, with 27 offensive rebounds.  That lead to Hope putting up 14 more shots than Calvin, which more than made up for the difference in shooting percentage.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 20, 2013, 12:57:23 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on November 20, 2013, 10:45:34 AM
Rebounding margin tells the story pretty well.  Calvin outshot Hope percentage wise (45% to 41%) and the turnovers were pretty even (15 for Calvin, 12 for Hope).  Rebounding margin was +18 for Hope, with 27 offensive rebounds.  That lead to Hope putting up 14 more shots than Calvin, which more than made up for the difference in shooting percentage.

Yeah, the second half was a pretty brutal 31-9 advantage for Hope, including 18-4 on the offensive end.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NACfan215 on November 21, 2013, 11:22:18 AM
Quote from: bballfan13 on November 19, 2013, 12:59:34 PM
Quote from: NACfan215 on November 19, 2013, 11:54:39 AM
I was at the Calvin v LC game, yes it was a 20 point game at the end, however it was a much closer game than it ended up, only an 8 point lead at halftime.  Calvin did run a fullcourt press for the entire game creating a 35-16 turnover differential. However, that was against an LC team that is playing young and inexperienced gaurds, particularly the PG with starting a freshman and having a sophomore as a backup.  Calvin scored 31 points off of the 35 TO's, you cut those TO's down and take away half the points off TO's and this is a couple possession game at the end.  If any team they face has experienced ball handlers and can easily break the press then Calvin will struggle to win, their halfcourt D is not as good and their Offense was suspect at best (again against a team who is also weak on defense).  I believe if this game was a half court only game then LC would have had the advantage.  With that said, if Hope is as good as people anticipate, then I believe they win by 20+ tonight.  I would find it hard to believe that Calvin remains a top 25 team for the remainder of the year... but I have been known to be wrong before, lol.  Hopefully that gives a little insight from someone who saw some live action last weekend.  Good luck to both teams the rest of the year.

I was at the game as well and didn't see it exactly the same way as you.  But let's be honest, I was wearing my Calvin glasses and it sounds like you might have been wearing your Lakeland glasses   :)

I think the end result was reasonable to how the game went.  Yes, if LC cuts down those turnovers then Calvin doesn't get as many points off of them, but that is what the full-court press is designed to do.  Calvin accomplished the goal of winning the turnover battle and did it impressively.  Now the season is still extremely young and being the first game for both teams can play into the result as well.  Both teams definitely have things to improve on and that is expected.  Calvin is far from a finished product as they have changed their whole system.  I thought the press looked good for being their first game and only really practicing it for a few weeks.  It is completely different than anything Calvin has run under Coach Ross.  Their offense is also new this year as they do not have the dominate post play this year as they have had in the past.  Calvin missed their first 7 shots the other night and it kept the game close at the beginning.  Their shots started to fall but nothing was consistent.  Their shooting percentage won't be as high as it has been the past few years because they won't generate as many points in the paint.  But I think the percentage will go up from the other night.

I thought Lakeland was a young team that has things to improve on just like Calvin, but I think the better team won by the margin that showed. 

That being said, Lakeland College were great hosts and the fans and people around the college and towns were great!

As for the Calvin vs Hope matchup tonight I think Hope has a slight edge.  They looked impressive when they should have last weekend in the game against Bluffton.  From my perspective you almost have to throw out the game against North Central due to the system they run.  Don't get me wrong and think I'm discounting the way and margin by which they won the game, it is just more of an outlier for comparison IMHO.  They did what they had to in that game, but it really isn't the same.  Both teams still have things to improve on but I think Calvin has a bit more due to the big changes they have made.  As a fan of the Rivalry I wish the game was being played a little further into the season to have more polished teams, but you have to be ready for any game in the season.  Here's to wishing for a great game being played tonight!

I agree with this, and it appears that as usual I was off in my prediction for the Calvin v Hope game, it appears Calvin played a much cleaner game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NACfan215 on November 21, 2013, 11:22:31 AM
It appears Lakeland will have their second consecutive matchup with an MIAA school as they travel to Alma for a friday night game.  Hopefully the Muskies can have a better showing this time around.  From the looks of it Alma is a pretty young team this year, after seeing the Calvin v LC game how does this game shake out?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NACfan215 on November 21, 2013, 03:35:03 PM
After another look at the schedule it appears there is also a matchup between the leagues perenial powers with Hope traveling to WI to take on Wisconsin Lutheran College, which should be a great matchup on saturday afternoon, very interested to see how this game turns out.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 22, 2013, 11:14:46 PM
Hope wins 84-57 against game but overmatched Hiram.  The end of Hope's bench saw action in the first half.  It will be a much tougher game tomorrow, playing Wisconsin Lutheran on their home court.  Unlike Hiram, WLC has the size to match up with Hope.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Captain_Joe08 on November 23, 2013, 05:46:33 PM
Wisconsin Lutheran and Hope are heading to overtime tied at 66. Melissa Klemm nails a desperation three with about four seconds left to tie the game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Captain_Joe08 on November 23, 2013, 06:06:38 PM
Hope escapes with a 78-72 overtime win over a tough Wisconsin Lutheran team.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 23, 2013, 06:49:25 PM
Quote from: Captain_Joe08 on November 23, 2013, 06:06:38 PM
Hope escapes with a 78-72 overtime win over a tough Wisconsin Lutheran team.

WL played a great game, sustained their intensity and toughness throughout.  Yesterday against WashU they had a few minutes here and there where I thought they let down and it cost them.  That 3 pt well defended bank shot at the end of regulation was monster, seemed at that point fate was on their side.  But Hope made a couple of big shots and seemed to ratchet it up a bit as well, with a bunch of big offensive rebounds in OT.  Great game for both teams, it will serve them well later in the season and for SOS.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 26, 2013, 05:38:02 AM
It seems way too early to say this, but Hope at Olivet tonight is a big game that could go a long way toward deciding the league championship.  Olivet seems to be playing very well and appears to be a serious contender in the league.  With a win at Calvin already under its belt, and Hope's record at Devos, it would appear a win at Olivet would give the Flying Dutch a commanding position in the early league standings.

That said, I expect a tight game.  Olivet looks much improved and Hope's defense seems to be more vulnerable than last year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on November 26, 2013, 11:50:19 AM
Looking at the stats, I agree.  Both Hope and Calvin's defense is SUSPECT.  In fact, where is the defense this year?  Most teams are letting the other teams score >20 more points per game than last year.  I miss defense.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 26, 2013, 12:06:00 PM
Meant to post this late last Friday but forgot.  Friday's game versus Hiram was the 500th game the Flying Dutch have played with Coach Mo at the helm.  No biggie - he's just 430-70 in those 500 games - a winning percentage of 0.860!!!!!

Congrats Mo!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 26, 2013, 03:05:48 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on November 26, 2013, 12:06:00 PM
Meant to post this late last Friday but forgot.  Friday's game versus Hiram was the 500th game the Flying Dutch have played with Coach Mo at the helm.  No biggie - he's just 430-70 in those 500 games - a winning percentage of 0.860!!!!!

Congrats Mo!!

125-3 in DeVos Fieldhouse
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 26, 2013, 11:41:03 PM
Hope 82  Olivet 57
http://athletics.hope.edu/sports/wbkb/2013-14/boxscores/20131126_1366.xml?view=boxscore

Too much interior depth for Olivet to contend with tonight.  Strong starts to both halves combined with a strong end of first half led to this victory.  They made Olivet play up hill all night and very few times let them get much momentum.

59 of Hope's 82 came from their "bigs"  20 each from McAfee and Llorens with 5 from Doell and just when you think you have them covered inside Traversa steps up with 14 with an impressive 4-6 from 3.

Olivet did a pretty good job on Berry and Gaddy, neither of those two were really an offensive factor.  But most of the time it felt like there was one too many Hope players that Olivet had to defend.

Olivet has a nice inside post player in Lang and a very nice PG in Campbell to get her the ball.  Hope didn't always defend her well but they came up with enough steals and good post defense to disrupt Olivet's offense.  On the other end I think they took advantage of Langs lack of mobility and dribbled around her quite a bit for easy layups.  Overall though, lack of depth was Olivet's biggest issue, they just couldn't match-up with Hope there.

I don't know man, unless Olivet or Calvin pulls off a win in DeVos or Hope messes up somewhere on the road they shouldn't its a little hard to see a loss on the remaining schedule anywhere.  I know this totally jinx's them.


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 27, 2013, 06:41:11 AM
Lange is awfully tough to stop if she gets the ball in the low box; she has a nice touch around the basket and does a great job keeping the ball high and releasing quickly so she doesn't get tied up.  But I think you hit the nail on the head; Hope really exposed a lack of interior quickness (not just Lange) and Hope posts repeatedly drove through the lane for layups.  Hope defense looked a bit improved, with 14 steals and forcing 26 TOs.  They seem to have Campbell figured out in recent games, limiting her to single digits and turning her over 10 times.  Berry has been quiet for Hope this year, but after her phenomenal long range shooting year last year teams are paying a lot of attention to her.  I think this is opening up the interior for Hope, their bigs are carrying much of the scoring load this year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on December 11, 2013, 01:23:37 PM
Calvin has been selected to host the women's basketball Final Four in 2015 and 2017.  Great to see the Final Four coming back to West Michigan

http://www.ncaa.com/news/ncaa/article/2013-12-06/ncaa-championships-site-selections

Calvin has also been selected as the host for women's volleyball in 2015 and 2017.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on December 14, 2013, 06:47:17 PM
Hope wins its Post Exam Jam tournament with an impressive 93-68 win over a very solid Capital team.  The big difference was that the Dutch pounded Capital on the boards 53-29 including 27 offensive boards.  Megan Kelly put up 23 points and was very impressive, Llorens went for 21 and 12 and was named MVP, McAfee hung up yet another double double and Berry went 4-7 from deep and looks to be shooting with the same confidence that caused her to lead the nation in 3 pt accurancy last season.

I wasn't sure before but am beginning to think the Dutch's lofty ranking is about right.   This team is big, deep and athletic and has 6 or 7 players that are capable of putting up 20 on any given night.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on December 16, 2013, 12:11:13 PM
Lots of scorers for Hope I agree, but very suspect defense!! And you know what they say, "defense wins championships"
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 16, 2013, 12:43:55 PM
Quote from: bballforever on December 16, 2013, 12:11:13 PM
Lots of scorers for Hope I agree, but very suspect defense!! And you know what they say, "defense wins championships"

Are they giving up points - yes, an average of 61.9 ppg through 9 games.  But when you are winning games by an average margin of 29 points, then the end of your bench is playing siginificant minutes - in many cases against the better players from the opponent. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on December 16, 2013, 12:54:56 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on December 16, 2013, 12:43:55 PM
Quote from: bballforever on December 16, 2013, 12:11:13 PM
Lots of scorers for Hope I agree, but very suspect defense!! And you know what they say, "defense wins championships"

Are they giving up points - yes, an average of 61.9 ppg through 9 games.  But when you are winning games by an average margin of 29 points, then the end of your bench is playing siginificant minutes - in many cases against the better players from the opponent. 

The Dutch are clearly not the same defensive team as last season, which I primarily attribute to the graduation of Liz Ellis.  As a 3-time league Defensive POY, she prevented other teams from even starting their offense.  And Morehouse has said in interviews that the new guidelines for referees are having an influence on how the team plays defense as well.

But I'm not sure I'd call the defense very suspect; not as good as last year but still pretty good.  As FDF said, with huge average victory margins (#3 nationally) the end of the bench is often seeing time in the first half.  Only 3 players see 20 minutes per game and no one plays more than 23.  The Dutch are #4 nationally in turnover margin, #5 in steals per game and are also among the leaders in rebound margin.  I think their defense will be OK.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on December 16, 2013, 01:41:40 PM
Same playing time situation as last year but the Lady Dutch are letting teams score on an average 20s more point per game than last year.  62 points verses 45 points last year.  Looks suspect to me.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on December 16, 2013, 03:35:34 PM
So far, Dutch are giving up 18 ppg more this year.  They are scoring 20 ppg more, so victory margin is higher this year than last.  Though comparison for part of this season vs. full last season is probably not too meaningful; just like last year I expect defensive ppg will decline significantly once they get into the heart of the league schedule.  Hope has already beaten the other two league contenders on their own courts and its toughest non-league opponents; stands to reason that defensive ppg will likely go down from this point forward.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 16, 2013, 04:28:58 PM
No comment........ok, comment.  Calling the league leader in all 4 of the major defensive categories suspect is, well, suspect. ;)

SCORING DEFENSE
# Team                  G   Pts Avg/G
-------------------------------------
1.Hope College........  9   557  61.9
2.Trine University....  7   447  63.9
3.Calvin College......  7   460  65.7
  Kalamazoo College...  7   460  65.7
5.Albion College......  8   543  67.9
6.Olivet College......  8   552  69.0
7.Saint Mary's College  9   641  71.2
8.Adrian College......  7   507  72.4
9.Alma College........  8   674  84.2

FIELD GOAL PCT DEFENSE
# Team                  G     FG   FGA   Pct
--------------------------------------------
1.Hope College........  9    188   516  .364
2.Olivet College......  8    199   529  .376
3.Trine University....  7    150   382  .393
4.Kalamazoo College...  7    158   402  .393
5.Saint Mary's College  9    240   593  .405
6.Adrian College......  7    185   455  .407
7.Calvin College......  7    158   383  .413
8.Albion College......  8    192   445  .431
9.Alma College........  8    235   495  .475

3-POINT FIELD GOAL PCT DEFENSE
# Team                  G     FG   FGA   Pct
--------------------------------------------
1.Hope College........  9     42   170  .247
2.Adrian College......  7     22    86  .256
3.Saint Mary's College  9     45   163  .276
4.Calvin College......  7     22    78  .282
5.Olivet College......  8     43   145  .297
6.Trine University....  7     28    93  .301
7.Kalamazoo College...  7     35   112  .313
8.Albion College......  8     50   154  .325
9.Alma College........  8     61   155  .394

STEALS
# Team                  G  Steals  Avg/G
----------------------------------------
1.Hope College........  9     135  15.00
2.Calvin College......  7      77  11.00
3.Saint Mary's College  9      91  10.11
4.Trine University....  7      68   9.71
5.Adrian College......  7      52   7.43
6.Alma College........  8      58   7.25
7.Kalamazoo College...  7      47   6.71
8.Albion College......  8      53   6.63
  Olivet College......  8      53   6.63
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 16, 2013, 04:30:13 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on December 16, 2013, 03:35:34 PM
So far, Dutch are giving up 18 ppg more this year.  They are scoring 20 ppg more, so victory margin is higher this year than last.  Though comparison for part of this season vs. full last season is probably not too meaningful; just like last year I expect defensive ppg will decline significantly once they get into the heart of the league schedule.  Hope has already beaten the other two league contenders on their own courts and its toughest non-league opponents; stands to reason that defensive ppg will likely go down from this point forward.

....and 18 more per game from the lowest defensive total in league history.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 16, 2013, 04:49:19 PM
Quote from: sac on December 16, 2013, 04:30:13 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on December 16, 2013, 03:35:34 PM
So far, Dutch are giving up 18 ppg more this year.  They are scoring 20 ppg more, so victory margin is higher this year than last.  Though comparison for part of this season vs. full last season is probably not too meaningful; just like last year I expect defensive ppg will decline significantly once they get into the heart of the league schedule.  Hope has already beaten the other two league contenders on their own courts and its toughest non-league opponents; stands to reason that defensive ppg will likely go down from this point forward.

....and 18 more per game from the lowest defensive total in league history.

How about looking at efficiency (points per possession):

Hope 2012-2013 (full season)
Offense - 106.9
Defense - 66.2 (ridiculously low)

Difference = 40.7

Hope 2013-2014 (through 9 games)
Offense - 113.7
Defense - 80.6

Difference = 33.1


Even more telling is if you look at average possessions per game (a good measure of the speed of the game). 

Hope 2012-2013 (full season)
Hope possessions per game - 64.5
Opponent possessions per game - 64.6

Hope 2013-2014 (through 9 games)
Hope possessions per game - 80.0
Opponent possessions per game - 76.8

That's 15.5 more possessions on offense per game for Hope, and 12.2 more for the opponent.  That's a lot more posessions per game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on December 17, 2013, 12:04:33 PM
#1 in MIAA defensive statistics!  hmmmm.  I would not take much value in that.  League down this year in all phases of games.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 17, 2013, 02:35:10 PM
Quote from: bballforever on December 17, 2013, 12:04:33 PM
#1 in MIAA defensive statistics!  hmmmm.  I would not take much value in that.  League down this year in all phases of games.

Are you sure about that?  Last season the league was 36-43 in non MIAA, non NCAA Tournament games.  Thats a winnning percentage of 0.456.  Thus far this season, the league is 23-26, for a 0.469 winning percentage.  If the league is down in all phases of the game, then so is the competition we've been playing.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 17, 2013, 04:35:21 PM
Defensive Efficiency of the D3hoops Top Ten,   Hope fits in just fine.

DePauw           87.9
Washington     78.78
Amherst           97.17
Whitman          81.69
Hope                76.70
Thomas More   79.02
Tufts                 71.97
St. Thomas       76.37
George Fox       65.11
Whitewater      80.20
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 20, 2013, 09:40:08 PM
Hope 74  Eastern 61

suspect offense,  ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 21, 2013, 05:01:25 PM
Hope 76  LaCrosse  70  OT

LaCrosse hit a 3 at the end of regulation to send it to OT.  Hope shoots 30% and survives.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on December 21, 2013, 06:05:36 PM
Quote from: sac on December 21, 2013, 05:01:25 PM
Hope 76  LaCrosse  70  OT

LaCrosse hit a 3 at the end of regulation to send it to OT.  Hope shoots 30% and survives.

Hope suffered a huge blow when starting center Rebekah Llorens went down with an apparent serious knee injury in the 1st half.  The Dutch showed a lot of character to gut out the win vs. an inspired and intense UW-Lacrosse team, especially given the loss of Llorens and the very long 3 pointer by Lacrosse at the end of regulation.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 21, 2013, 11:52:40 PM
Brian Morehouse ‏@CoachMorehouse 3h

Great W today. Best part of the whole thing......Mr Tom Renner handed me my stats as his last official duty at Hope. #class #noonebetter
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 30, 2013, 08:28:38 PM
Tweet during Ohio Northern/Whitewater game this evening......
D3hoops/Pat Coleman ‏@d3hoops 3h

Unusual moment at the #d3classic. Player entered wearing the wrong jersey or wasn't in the official book. Technical foul shots for ONU #d3h


ONU went on to upset Whitewater 68-67
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 04, 2014, 09:38:45 AM
Sentinel reported that Hope's standout Rebekah Llorens is out for the season with a torn ACL.  Really tough news for her and the team.  She's an exceptional low post player with strong inside moves with both hands, was 2nd on the team in both scoring and rebounding.  The only good news is that the Dutch are better able to handle such a key loss than most teams.  I'd guess they'll move Doell back into the starting lineup (she started all last season), wouldn't lose any height and will gain some speed but Doell is more of a small forward and Llorens is clearly the best low post player on the team.  Regardless of who starts, the Dutch will likely be a bit more perimeter oriented.  Rotations will change a lot too.

Good luck to Ms. Llorens and the Dutch.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 04, 2014, 11:02:43 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 04, 2014, 09:38:45 AM
Sentinel reported that Hope's standout Rebekah Llorens is out for the season with a torn ACL.  Really tough news for her and the team.  She's an exceptional low post player with strong inside moves with both hands, was 2nd on the team in both scoring and rebounding.  The only good news is that the Dutch are better able to handle such a key loss than most teams.  I'd guess they'll move Doell back into the starting lineup (she started all last season), wouldn't lose any height and will gain some speed but Doell is more of a small forward and Llorens is clearly the best low post player on the team.  Regardless of who starts, the Dutch will likely be a bit more perimeter oriented.  Rotations will change a lot too.

Good luck to Ms. Llorens and the Dutch.
That is sad news.  I hate to hear when any team loses any player for something like this.  I recal a number of years back Calvin lost two key players to knees in about 5 minutes.  It makes a person realize how fortunate Calvin was with Carissa V. that she never seem to have injuries.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 04, 2014, 04:49:25 PM
Hope 82  Trine 38
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 04, 2014, 04:56:32 PM
Quote from: sac on January 04, 2014, 04:49:25 PM
Hope 82  Trine 38

Good showing for the Dutch in their first game without Llorens.  Statistically, not much changed; still big margins on turnovers, steals, and rebounding especially offensive boards. 

Olivet knocked off Calvin 77-73 at Olivet.  Looks like league 2-3 spots will be a dogfight this year and I have no idea who will take the 4th playoff spot.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 04, 2014, 05:03:05 PM
Kalamazoo is 3-0 in league play, matching their total league wins for the last two years combined.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on January 06, 2014, 08:16:00 AM
Go Kzoo Comets!!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 06, 2014, 03:51:44 PM
Quote from: bballforever on January 06, 2014, 08:16:00 AM
Go Kzoo Comets!!!!

now that is suspect.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on January 07, 2014, 07:48:49 AM
I know but fun to route for the underdog!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 07, 2014, 08:36:49 AM
Quote from: bballforever on January 07, 2014, 07:48:49 AM
I know but fun to route for the underdog!!

Might be able to put your team in that role this year :) :) :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 07, 2014, 06:30:34 PM
I'm just curious but everyone is aware that Kalamazoo is known as the Hornets right? ???
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on January 07, 2014, 07:04:03 PM
Quote from: sac on January 07, 2014, 06:30:34 PM
I'm just curious but everyone is aware that Kalamazoo is known as the Hornets right? ???

News to me  ;)

I think they were trying to say go Kalamazoo and go Olivet.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on January 08, 2014, 11:14:23 AM
oops, my mistake.  GO HORNETS!!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 08, 2014, 11:46:58 AM
Quote from: bballforever on January 08, 2014, 11:14:23 AM
oops, my mistake.  GO HORNETS!!!!

whew, I was afraid we were having an awkward moment.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 14, 2014, 10:46:16 PM
Olivet's Stephanie Lang is featured in this weeks Around the Great Lakes section

http://d3hoops.com/columns/around-the-region/great-lakes-south/2013-14/lang-finds-olivet-great-place-for-volleyball-basketball
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 23, 2014, 06:20:40 PM
Olivet's game winning shot over St. Mary's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZn11-w8oCY
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 23, 2014, 07:15:20 PM
Nice win for the Comets, though I'm surprised it was that close.  Seems that winning margins for both Olivet and Hope are down recently though that can be misleading due to substitutions and so forth.  Looks to me like the Calvin women are playing really well right now.  The league regular season will probably be decided next week with both Olivet and Calvin playing at Hope.  Kzoo still in the drivers seat for the last league tournament spot, but they have to keep beating everyone not in a Hope, Calvin or Olivet uniform.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 28, 2014, 09:03:32 AM
Congrats to Olivet as they break into the top 25 this week at number 24.  First time for the Comets?

http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/index
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 28, 2014, 05:07:43 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on January 28, 2014, 09:03:32 AM
Congrats to Olivet as they break into the top 25 this week at number 24.  First time for the Comets?

http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/index

Yep, first time. Pretty cool for them!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 29, 2014, 01:39:05 PM
Quote from: sac on November 26, 2013, 11:41:03 PM
Hope 82  Olivet 57
http://athletics.hope.edu/sports/wbkb/2013-14/boxscores/20131126_1366.xml?view=boxscore

Too much interior depth for Olivet to contend with tonight.  Strong starts to both halves combined with a strong end of first half led to this victory.  They made Olivet play up hill all night and very few times let them get much momentum.

59 of Hope's 82 came from their "bigs"  20 each from McAfee and Llorens with 5 from Doell and just when you think you have them covered inside Traversa steps up with 14 with an impressive 4-6 from 3.

Olivet did a pretty good job on Berry and Gaddy, neither of those two were really an offensive factor.  But most of the time it felt like there was one too many Hope players that Olivet had to defend.

Olivet has a nice inside post player in Lang and a very nice PG in Campbell to get her the ball.  Hope didn't always defend her well but they came up with enough steals and good post defense to disrupt Olivet's offense.  On the other end I think they took advantage of Langs lack of mobility and dribbled around her quite a bit for easy layups.  Overall though, lack of depth was Olivet's biggest issue, they just couldn't match-up with Hope there.

I don't know man, unless Olivet or Calvin pulls off a win in DeVos or Hope messes up somewhere on the road they shouldn't its a little hard to see a loss on the remaining schedule anywhere.  I know this totally jinx's them.

Along time ago Hope and Olivet played a game against each other.  I wrote this after watching that game, would be interested if anything is different in tonight's match-up.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on January 29, 2014, 02:28:45 PM
The difference from Olivet/Hope first game is the absence of Lloren's, due to injury. The interior quickness used by Hope in the first game is somewhat diminished. Hope has plenty of bigs, but McAfee has no help like before under the basket.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 29, 2014, 02:39:03 PM
Quote from: jspiii on January 29, 2014, 02:28:45 PM
The difference from Olivet/Hope first game is the absence of Lloren's, due to injury. The interior quickness used by Hope in the first game is somewhat diminished. Hope has plenty of bigs, but McAfee has no help like before under the basket.

Actually, Hope will be even quicker with Doell starting in Llorens' place.  Both are 6'1" but Doell usually plays more at small forward and guard.  It will be a different style, Llorens is an outstanding low post player while Doell is more of a slasher and a lock down defender.  Will be interesting to see how it plays out, but clearly Hope is a stronger/deeper team when Llorens is available.

This game will go a long way toward deciding the regular season league championship.  A Hope win will keep them undefeated while Olivet and Calvin would have two losses.  But an Olivet win would have Hope facing a must win game against a hot Calvin team on Saturday in order to maintain a share of the league lead. I expect a Hope win but by a narrow margin.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Stinger on January 29, 2014, 03:03:43 PM
I think the the Hornets and Coach Katie Miller deserve a shout out.  This team is 5 seasons removed from a zero wins, and three wins away from matching the entire total over those past 5 seasons. They are also 2 games up for the final tourney slot.   An amazing turnaround. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on January 29, 2014, 03:11:55 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 29, 2014, 02:39:03 PM
Quote from: jspiii on January 29, 2014, 02:28:45 PM
The difference from Olivet/Hope first game is the absence of Lloren's, due to injury. The interior quickness used by Hope in the first game is somewhat diminished. Hope has plenty of bigs, but McAfee has no help like before under the basket.

Actually, Hope will be even quicker with Doell starting in Llorens' place.  Both are 6'1" but Doell usually plays more at small forward and guard.  It will be a different style, Llorens is an outstanding low post player while Doell is more of a slasher and a lock down defender.  Will be interesting to see how it plays out, but clearly Hope is a stronger/deeper team when Llorens is available.

This game will go a long way toward deciding the regular season league championship.  A Hope win will keep them undefeated while Olivet and Calvin would have two losses.  But an Olivet win would have Hope facing a must win game against a hot Calvin team on Saturday in order to maintain a share of the league lead. I expect a Hope win but by a narrow margin.

Speaking of Doell.
http://www.hollandsentinel.com/article/20140128/SPORTS/140129218
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 29, 2014, 09:05:59 PM
Kind of a grind-it-out sort of a win for the Dutch.  Shots weren't falling, except for Berry, but Hope did it's usual pounding of the offensive boards and creating a big turnover margin, resulting in Hope having 22 more shots than the Comets.  Olivet played really well, but depth is a problem with only 4 players scoring, two starters playing the entire game and two others playing 36 minutes.  They are just a role player or two from being possible league champs.

Berry had once of those games where she was really going off, making beautiful passes and hitting step back threes.  She went down with an injury with a few minutes left, but the Dutch were able to shake it off and hold off the Comets.  Another huge blow to the Dutch if she is seriously injured.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on January 29, 2014, 11:53:32 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 29, 2014, 09:05:59 PM
Kind of a grind-it-out sort of a win for the Dutch.  Shots weren't falling, except for Berry, but Hope did it's usual pounding of the offensive boards and creating a big turnover margin, resulting in Hope having 22 more shots than the Comets.  Olivet played really well, but depth is a problem with only 4 players scoring, two starters playing the entire game and two others playing 36 minutes.  They are just a role player or two from being possible league champs.

Berry had once of those games where she was really going off, making beautiful passes and hitting step back threes.  She went down with an injury with a few minutes left, but the Dutch were able to shake it off and hold off the Comets.  Another huge blow to the Dutch if she is seriously injured.
I was sitting quite close to where Berry went down and it appeared to be a cramp in her calf.  Hopefully that is all it was.  We certainly can't afford to lose her points, but perhaps even more so, her leadership and command of the game and her coaching contributions while on the court.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 30, 2014, 07:42:19 AM
Quote from: wwjjdd on January 29, 2014, 11:53:32 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 29, 2014, 09:05:59 PM
Kind of a grind-it-out sort of a win for the Dutch.  Shots weren't falling, except for Berry, but Hope did it's usual pounding of the offensive boards and creating a big turnover margin, resulting in Hope having 22 more shots than the Comets.  Olivet played really well, but depth is a problem with only 4 players scoring, two starters playing the entire game and two others playing 36 minutes.  They are just a role player or two from being possible league champs.

Berry had once of those games where she was really going off, making beautiful passes and hitting step back threes.  She went down with an injury with a few minutes left, but the Dutch were able to shake it off and hold off the Comets.  Another huge blow to the Dutch if she is seriously injured.
I was sitting quite close to where Berry went down and it appeared to be a cramp in her calf.  Hopefully that is all it was.  We certainly can't afford to lose her points, but perhaps even more so, her leadership and command of the game and her coaching contributions while on the court.

Very glad to hear it might just be a leg cramp, thanks.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 30, 2014, 09:57:33 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 30, 2014, 07:42:19 AM
Quote from: wwjjdd on January 29, 2014, 11:53:32 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 29, 2014, 09:05:59 PM
Kind of a grind-it-out sort of a win for the Dutch.  Shots weren't falling, except for Berry, but Hope did it's usual pounding of the offensive boards and creating a big turnover margin, resulting in Hope having 22 more shots than the Comets.  Olivet played really well, but depth is a problem with only 4 players scoring, two starters playing the entire game and two others playing 36 minutes.  They are just a role player or two from being possible league champs.

Berry had once of those games where she was really going off, making beautiful passes and hitting step back threes.  She went down with an injury with a few minutes left, but the Dutch were able to shake it off and hold off the Comets.  Another huge blow to the Dutch if she is seriously injured.
I was sitting quite close to where Berry went down and it appeared to be a cramp in her calf.  Hopefully that is all it was.  We certainly can't afford to lose her points, but perhaps even more so, her leadership and command of the game and her coaching contributions while on the court.

Very glad to hear it might just be a leg cramp, thanks.

In Berry's own words, it wa a calf cramp
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 01, 2014, 04:44:08 PM
Hope 78  Calvin 47

Suspect, very suspect!  ;)  ...yes I'm going to ride that one hard.


With that win Hope has a 2 game lead over Olivet, 3 over Calvin with no more head to head games remaining.  Unless something incredible happens Hope's going to win a piece of its 12th MIAA Championship in the last 15 seasons.

Special thanks to Hope College for the live streaming of this game.  I enjoyed it from my bunker 90 miles away.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 02, 2014, 07:24:09 AM
Quote from: sac on February 01, 2014, 04:44:08 PM
Hope 78  Calvin 47

Suspect, very suspect!  ;)  ...yes I'm going to ride that one hard.


With that win Hope has a 2 game lead over Olivet, 3 over Calvin with no more head to head games remaining.  Unless something incredible happens Hope's going to win a piece of its 12th MIAA Championship in the last 15 seasons.

Special thanks to Hope College for the live streaming of this game.  I enjoyed it from my bunker 90 miles away.

Yeah, there sure didn't seem to be anything wrong with the Dutch's defense. Admittedly the Knights never really got hot, but Hope's defense had something to do with that.  In the past, Calvin has hurt Hope with dribble penetration then a kick to the opposite wing for the open three; Calvin had a few looks but for the most part Hope was able to close quickly and contest those shots.

It seems that every game Hope is at least +10 in rebounds and turnover margin and it was the same yesterday.  Combine that with a strong defense and your not going to lose mcuh.  But perhaps Hope's greatest strength is offensive balance with every player in the rotation a legitimate threat. 

Despite the snow and video streaming, there were still 1977 in attendance.  Hope the videos continue, the theories about reduced attendance didn't pan out at least for a Rivalry game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on February 02, 2014, 07:58:32 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 02, 2014, 07:24:09 AM
Despite the snow and video streaming, there were still 1977 in attendance.  Hope the videos continue, the theories about reduced attendance didn't pan out at least for a Rivalry game.

Last year's Calvin at Hope game had a recorded 3443.  But snow, video streaming, and a different person now specifying the attendance may have had something to do with that.  There were, if I recall, noticeably fewer Calvin fans.  But it would take a research project to determine whether video streaming motivates some who are 50/50 about whether to come to a game to just stay home and watch.  If it's a small attendance cost, it's still a nice service for the many more who couldn't or wouldn't travel.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 02, 2014, 08:36:57 AM
Quote from: pointlem on February 02, 2014, 07:58:32 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 02, 2014, 07:24:09 AM
Despite the snow and video streaming, there were still 1977 in attendance.  Hope the videos continue, the theories about reduced attendance didn't pan out at least for a Rivalry game.

Last year's Calvin at Hope game had a recorded 3443.  But snow, video streaming, and a different person now specifying the attendance may have had something to do with that.  There were, if I recall, noticeably fewer Calvin fans.  But it would take a research project to determine whether video streaming motivates some who are 50/50 about whether to come to a game to just stay home and watch.  If it's a small attendance cost, it's still a nice service for the many more who couldn't or wouldn't travel.

The three sections set aside for Calvin fans were nearly empty (at least of Calvin fans). I suspect the low turnout of those fans had a lot more to do with their teams overall performance this year and less to do with the weather.  Fair weather fans with a dual meaning in this case.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 02, 2014, 04:18:34 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 02, 2014, 07:24:09 AM

Despite the snow and video streaming, there were still 1977 in attendance.  Hope the videos continue, the theories about reduced attendance didn't pan out at least for a Rivalry game.

Other video productions have a counter somewhere on the screen, Hope's does not.  I'd be curious to know how many tuned in.  Most of the biggest D3 games never have more than a 100, and I would say almost all videos have less than 50 watching at any given time.


For someone like me, having video was nice and made no difference in my decision to attend the game because I wouldn't have been able to go with or without it.   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 03, 2014, 06:52:22 AM
Quote from: sac on February 02, 2014, 04:18:34 PM
For someone like me, having video was nice and made no difference in my decision to attend the game because I wouldn't have been able to go with or without it.   

Similarly, it makes no difference to me since if I am able I will always attend the games in person.  I enjoy being there, seeing the game live, and the social aspects of attending an event.  VERY happy to have the video for when I can't attend live.  I'm sure there will be a few that stay home to watch the video even if they could attend. 

With respect to Saturday's game, I agree with other comments about the snow and about the significance (or lack thereof) of the game probably being more responsible for keeping attendance down.  Nonetheless, 1977 is still a nice turnout all things considered.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 03, 2014, 11:52:55 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 03, 2014, 06:52:22 AM
Nonetheless, 1977 is still a nice turnout all things considered.

Bit of perspective - The average attendance for DIII women's basketball last season was 232.  There are plenty of teams who don't play in front of 1977 people total in all their home games combined.  We are truly blessed.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 03, 2014, 12:29:56 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 02, 2014, 08:36:57 AM
The three sections set aside for Calvin fans were nearly empty (at least of Calvin fans). I suspect the low turnout of those fans had a lot more to do with their teams overall performance this year and less to do with the weather.  Fair weather fans with a dual meaning in this case.

I must say this is quite an ignorant statement and quite stupid. 

First off let's get to the weather (actual snow) statement.  How far did you have to drive to the game?  Did you take the highway and if so for very long?  I did make the trip from Grand Rapids and and spoke with the many parents that did as well for Calvin and the conclusion was obvious, the roads were horrible and it took much longer than normal.  I would not say the roads were the worst I've seen them but it definitely had a big factor into why fans weren't able to come.  Families, relatives and close friends ventured out and were able to come to the game but the more casual or less connected fan from Calvin (who don't have a daughter or relative playing) might not have come, and for good reason due to the roads.  I even had close friends get in an accident on the way and were not able to make it because of that. 

As for the students, where were they?  They were on interim break, so the large majority of students are off campus for the 5 days.

Obviously Calvin hasn't been as successful this year as they have been the past 4 years, but that was expected due to the graduating class from last year.  Calvin has a very young team this year and is learning a lot.  But coming into the game at 12-5 and tied for second in the league, is it really that bad?  I don't think so.  And do you really think that the lopsided result was expected coming in?  Hope only beat Calvin by 7 earlier this year.  Also if you look at the past 5 games for Calvin they had been on quite a good run.  Please show me someone who saw this result coming.

I'm sorry you felt the need to take a low blow at Calvin's for their fan turnout to the game.  And in my opinion the fan section from Calvin was not as small as you make it sound.  You might want to take off your blue and orange glasses next time.  And please don't blame the game's smaller attendance (which was still great as mentioned by others here) solely on Calvin fans not showing up.  I'm sure there were plently of Hope fans that didn't make it to the game due to the poor weather.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 03, 2014, 12:47:56 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 03, 2014, 11:52:55 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 03, 2014, 06:52:22 AM
Nonetheless, 1977 is still a nice turnout all things considered.

Bit of perspective - The average attendance for DIII women's basketball last season was 232.  There are plenty of teams who don't play in front of 1977 people total in all their home games combined.  We are truly blessed.

Absolutely, well said.  Blessed, spoiled, all those things... :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 03, 2014, 02:18:53 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 03, 2014, 12:29:56 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 02, 2014, 08:36:57 AM
The three sections set aside for Calvin fans were nearly empty (at least of Calvin fans). I suspect the low turnout of those fans had a lot more to do with their teams overall performance this year and less to do with the weather.  Fair weather fans with a dual meaning in this case.

I must say this is quite an ignorant statement and quite stupid. 

First off let's get to the weather (actual snow) statement.  How far did you have to drive to the game?  Did you take the highway and if so for very long?  I did make the trip from Grand Rapids and and spoke with the many parents that did as well for Calvin and the conclusion was obvious, the roads were horrible and it took much longer than normal.  I would not say the roads were the worst I've seen them but it definitely had a big factor into why fans weren't able to come.  Families, relatives and close friends ventured out and were able to come to the game but the more casual or less connected fan from Calvin (who don't have a daughter or relative playing) might not have come, and for good reason due to the roads.  I even had close friends get in an accident on the way and were not able to make it because of that. 

As for the students, where were they?  They were on interim break, so the large majority of students are off campus for the 5 days.

Obviously Calvin hasn't been as successful this year as they have been the past 4 years, but that was expected due to the graduating class from last year.  Calvin has a very young team this year and is learning a lot.  But coming into the game at 12-5 and tied for second in the league, is it really that bad?  I don't think so.  And do you really think that the lopsided result was expected coming in?  Hope only beat Calvin by 7 earlier this year.  Also if you look at the past 5 games for Calvin they had been on quite a good run.  Please show me someone who saw this result coming.

I'm sorry you felt the need to take a low blow at Calvin's for their fan turnout to the game.  And in my opinion the fan section from Calvin was not as small as you make it sound.  You might want to take off your blue and orange glasses next time.  And please don't blame the game's smaller attendance (which was still great as mentioned by others here) solely on Calvin fans not showing up.  I'm sure there were plently of Hope fans that didn't make it to the game due to the poor weather.

Call me names if it makes you feel better, I was simply sharing my opinion.  I know the roads were bad based on my drive to Hudsponville and back Saturday morning.  I also am aware of the attendance Calvin has had at home this year (average of 582, which includes the Hope Calvin game of 1124).  That's down from an average of 717 last year - so I will stand by my assertion that the Calvin fans are not attending at the same rate as they were. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 03, 2014, 02:32:36 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 03, 2014, 02:18:53 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 03, 2014, 12:29:56 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 02, 2014, 08:36:57 AM
The three sections set aside for Calvin fans were nearly empty (at least of Calvin fans). I suspect the low turnout of those fans had a lot more to do with their teams overall performance this year and less to do with the weather.  Fair weather fans with a dual meaning in this case.

I must say this is quite an ignorant statement and quite stupid. 

First off let's get to the weather (actual snow) statement.  How far did you have to drive to the game?  Did you take the highway and if so for very long?  I did make the trip from Grand Rapids and and spoke with the many parents that did as well for Calvin and the conclusion was obvious, the roads were horrible and it took much longer than normal.  I would not say the roads were the worst I've seen them but it definitely had a big factor into why fans weren't able to come.  Families, relatives and close friends ventured out and were able to come to the game but the more casual or less connected fan from Calvin (who don't have a daughter or relative playing) might not have come, and for good reason due to the roads.  I even had close friends get in an accident on the way and were not able to make it because of that. 

As for the students, where were they?  They were on interim break, so the large majority of students are off campus for the 5 days.

Obviously Calvin hasn't been as successful this year as they have been the past 4 years, but that was expected due to the graduating class from last year.  Calvin has a very young team this year and is learning a lot.  But coming into the game at 12-5 and tied for second in the league, is it really that bad?  I don't think so.  And do you really think that the lopsided result was expected coming in?  Hope only beat Calvin by 7 earlier this year.  Also if you look at the past 5 games for Calvin they had been on quite a good run.  Please show me someone who saw this result coming.

I'm sorry you felt the need to take a low blow at Calvin's for their fan turnout to the game.  And in my opinion the fan section from Calvin was not as small as you make it sound.  You might want to take off your blue and orange glasses next time.  And please don't blame the game's smaller attendance (which was still great as mentioned by others here) solely on Calvin fans not showing up.  I'm sure there were plently of Hope fans that didn't make it to the game due to the poor weather.

Call me names if it makes you feel better, I was simply sharing my opinion.  I know the roads were bad based on my drive to Hudsponville and back Saturday morning.  I also am aware of the attendance Calvin has had at home this year (average of 582, which includes the Hope Calvin game of 1124).  That's down from an average of 717 last year - so I will stand by my assertion that the Calvin fans are not attending at the same rate as they were.

Let's be clear, you were not called any names, just your statement.  I'm sorry for coming off strong but criticizing a fan base based on the situation was wrong in my opinion.  I'm sure you would have felt the same way looking at it from the other side.  Hopefully you're not worried this will prevent you from hanging another "attendance" banner.

And the bolded statement above points out the obvious.  That is why they call it average, it includes all games, just as the 717 included the games last year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 03, 2014, 02:50:35 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 03, 2014, 02:32:36 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 03, 2014, 02:18:53 PM
Call me names if it makes you feel better, I was simply sharing my opinion.  I know the roads were bad based on my drive to Hudsponville and back Saturday morning.  I also am aware of the attendance Calvin has had at home this year (average of 582, which includes the Hope Calvin game of 1124).  That's down from an average of 717 last year - so I will stand by my assertion that the Calvin fans are not attending at the same rate as they were.

Let's be clear, you were not called any names, just your statement.  I'm sorry for coming off strong but criticizing a fan base based on the situation was wrong in my opinion.  I'm sure you would have felt the same way looking at it from the other side.  Hopefully you're not worried this will prevent you from hanging another "attendance" banner.

And the bolded statement above points out the obvious.  That is why they call it average, it includes all games, just as the 717 included the games last year.

The point I was making is that Calvin's average is down 135 per game (nearly 20%).  I was also pointing out that for a home game against Hope in very good weather, there were only 1124 (yes I know that's both Hope and Calvin contributing to that total), but it is down significantly from last season.

I also know that the weather had some impact - no doubt about it - that affected attendance on both sides. 

Points of reference - there were two Hope Calvin games @ Calvin last year.  Regular season game had 2973, and the MIAA Championship game had 2754.  The one Hope Calvin game @ Hope last year had 3443.

Regarding banners - I'm good with the two national championship banners, thanks :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 03, 2014, 02:53:12 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 03, 2014, 02:50:35 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 03, 2014, 02:32:36 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 03, 2014, 02:18:53 PM
Call me names if it makes you feel better, I was simply sharing my opinion.  I know the roads were bad based on my drive to Hudsponville and back Saturday morning.  I also am aware of the attendance Calvin has had at home this year (average of 582, which includes the Hope Calvin game of 1124).  That's down from an average of 717 last year - so I will stand by my assertion that the Calvin fans are not attending at the same rate as they were.

Let's be clear, you were not called any names, just your statement.  I'm sorry for coming off strong but criticizing a fan base based on the situation was wrong in my opinion.  I'm sure you would have felt the same way looking at it from the other side.  Hopefully you're not worried this will prevent you from hanging another "attendance" banner.

And the bolded statement above points out the obvious.  That is why they call it average, it includes all games, just as the 717 included the games last year.

The point I was making is that Calvin's average is down 135 per game (nearly 20%).  I was also pointing out that for a home game against Hope in very good weather, there were only 1124 (yes I know that's both Hope and Calvin contributing to that total), but it is down significantly from last season.

Point of reference - there were two Hope Calvin games @ Calvin last year.  Regular season game had 2973, and the MIAA Championship game had 2754.

Just a poor way of going about it.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 05, 2014, 06:54:43 PM
Yikes, Hope is up 62-27 over Kzoo at the half, including hitting 11-12 threes!  Those threes were made by 7 different players.  Everyone has played and 11 have scored in the first half.  Hope is on fire, but not sure what's up with Kzoo.  They gave the Dutch a good game at Devos earlier in the season and have been playing well, but their defense seems a little disinterested tonight.  The Dutch are looking awfully good, but you always do when the shots are going in.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 06, 2014, 09:23:16 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 05, 2014, 06:54:43 PM
Yikes, Hope is up 62-27 over Kzoo at the half, including hitting 11-12 threes!  Those threes were made by 7 different players.  Everyone has played and 11 have scored in the first half.  Hope is on fire, but not sure what's up with Kzoo.  They gave the Dutch a good game at Devos earlier in the season and have been playing well, but their defense seems a little disinterested tonight.  The Dutch are looking awfully good, but you always do when the shots are going in.

Final was 96-54.  Everyone played, everyone scored, bench scored 55.  Hope finished 15-22 (68%) from 3 pt range with eight different players having at least one three.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 06, 2014, 01:23:24 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 06, 2014, 09:23:16 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 05, 2014, 06:54:43 PM
Yikes, Hope is up 62-27 over Kzoo at the half, including hitting 11-12 threes!  Those threes were made by 7 different players.  Everyone has played and 11 have scored in the first half.  Hope is on fire, but not sure what's up with Kzoo.  They gave the Dutch a good game at Devos earlier in the season and have been playing well, but their defense seems a little disinterested tonight.  The Dutch are looking awfully good, but you always do when the shots are going in.

Final was 96-54.  Everyone played, everyone scored, bench scored 55.  Hope finished 15-22 (68%) from 3 pt range with eight different players having at least one three.

For some reason Hope has no record for 3-point shots made by the team in a game.


7 short of the MIAA record of 22
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 06, 2014, 01:53:21 PM
Quote from: sac on February 06, 2014, 01:23:24 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 06, 2014, 09:23:16 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 05, 2014, 06:54:43 PM
Yikes, Hope is up 62-27 over Kzoo at the half, including hitting 11-12 threes!  Those threes were made by 7 different players.  Everyone has played and 11 have scored in the first half.  Hope is on fire, but not sure what's up with Kzoo.  They gave the Dutch a good game at Devos earlier in the season and have been playing well, but their defense seems a little disinterested tonight.  The Dutch are looking awfully good, but you always do when the shots are going in.

Final was 96-54.  Everyone played, everyone scored, bench scored 55.  Hope finished 15-22 (68%) from 3 pt range with eight different players having at least one three.

For some reason Hope has no record for 3-point shots made by the team in a game.


7 short of the MIAA record of 22

Wow, 22 in a game, hard to imagine.  It was raining threes.

Last night's performance significantly exceeded Hope's records at Devos, however the game was at Kzoo.

Hope's Team Records at Devos
-----------------------------------
Three Point Field Goals Scored: 12 (12/23) - Hope 81, Tri-State 52, 2-26-08

Three-Point Field Goal Percentage (min. 6 scored): .600 (9/15) - Hope 91, Saint Mary's 66, 2-19-06
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 06, 2014, 02:20:05 PM
When I saw Trine's record, and the year (2005) I wondered if Trine wasn't dabbling in 'system' basketball like Grinnell back then.  On the men's side they attempted something similar right around that time.

Trine's 2005 stats.  http://miaa.org/wbb/stats/0405/TSU-W.HTM

They attempted 1020 3-point shots on the season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on February 08, 2014, 10:56:36 PM
Sorry to read (in the Sentinel) about Angelique Gaddy's injury.  What a delight she is to watch. For her sake--and her team's--I hope it's not a season-ending injury.  Roundball or anyone else: was this an ankle or a knee issue?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on February 08, 2014, 11:04:45 PM
Quote from: pointlem on February 08, 2014, 10:56:36 PM
Sorry to read (in the Sentinel) about Angelique Gaddy's injury.  What a delight she is to watch. For her sake--and her team's--I hope it's not a season-ending injury.  Roundball or anyone else: was this an ankle or a knee issue?
I watched the video about 3 times and couldn't tell but she couldn't put any weight (left leg) on it. It didn't look good.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 09, 2014, 07:51:07 AM
Quote from: jspiii on February 08, 2014, 11:04:45 PM
Quote from: pointlem on February 08, 2014, 10:56:36 PM
Sorry to read (in the Sentinel) about Angelique Gaddy's injury.  What a delight she is to watch. For her sake--and her team's--I hope it's not a season-ending injury.  Roundball or anyone else: was this an ankle or a knee issue?
I watched the video about 3 times and couldn't tell but she couldn't put any weight (left leg) on it. It didn't look good.


Wasn't at the game but heard afterward it was a knee.  Obviously no evaluation yet, but does not sound good.  This team keeps taking body blows and moving forward.  Best wishes to Ms. Gaddy, Llorens, and the rest of the team.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on February 09, 2014, 09:36:06 AM
Ugh.  This reminds me of what happened to a great Calvin women's team several years ago, when two star players had ACL tears in a game against Hope, as I recall.  They were still a good team after that, but it's difficult to lose players of that quality and remain the great team that you were.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 09, 2014, 10:33:53 AM
Quote from: pointlem on February 09, 2014, 09:36:06 AM
Ugh.  This reminds me of what happened to a great Calvin women's team several years ago, when two star players had ACL tears in a game against Hope, as I recall.  They were still a good team after that, but it's difficult to lose players of that quality and remain the great team that you were.

Agreed, though still hoping feverishly that Gaddy's injury is not season-ending.  If it is, this is where Hope's depth and Coach Morehouse's usual 10 player rotation will help greatly.  Without Llorens and Gaddy, the starting five may still arguably be just as good but with a different style.  Kaufmann has been playing really well this year and has better shooting stats than Gaddy especially the 3.  Her ball control stats are about the same, but she's not quite as effective penetrating the lane.  They are both excellent defenders.  Doell is not the low post player and offensive threat that Llorens is but she's faster, more versatile, and one of the best defenders in the league.  After all, she did start all last season on a 29-2 elite eight team.  So I think depth is where these injuries will play the greatest role.  But, superior depth has always been one of Hope's key strengths.....
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 09, 2014, 10:07:37 PM
Quote from: pointlem on February 09, 2014, 09:36:06 AM
Ugh.  This reminds me of what happened to a great Calvin women's team several years ago, when two star players had ACL tears in a game against Hope, as I recall.  They were still a good team after that, but it's difficult to lose players of that quality and remain the great team that you were.

Yes, this happened in the 2007 conference championship between Calvin and Hope.  Calvin's 1st and 3rd leading scorers (Harris and Brummel) both tore their ACL's in the last few minutes of the game.  Hope won by 3 but Calvin still got an at large bid into the tournament.  Calvin rallied together as a team and made it all the way to the Elite 8 that year. 

Injuries are never good to see.  Hopefully Gaddy's isn't season ending for her and Hope's sake.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on February 10, 2014, 02:26:10 PM
Thanks, bballfan.  I see there's an excellent Calvin Chimes article on these two players, and on women athletes' ACL tears and rehab and recovery at
http://clubs.calvin.edu/chimes/article.php?id=3387

Quote from: bballfan13 on February 09, 2014, 10:07:37 PM
Quote from: pointlem on February 09, 2014, 09:36:06 AM
Ugh.  This reminds me of what happened to a great Calvin women's team several years ago, when two star players had ACL tears in a game against Hope, as I recall.  They were still a good team after that, but it's difficult to lose players of that quality and remain the great team that you were.

Yes, this happened in the 2007 conference championship between Calvin and Hope.  Calvin's 1st and 3rd leading scorers (Harris and Brummel) both tore their ACL's in the last few minutes of the game.  Hope won by 3 but Calvin still got an at large bid into the tournament.  Calvin rallied together as a team and made it all the way to the Elite 8 that year. 

Injuries are never good to see.  Hopefully Gaddy's isn't season ending for her and Hope's sake.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 12, 2014, 04:09:46 PM
http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-women/d3/division-iii-regional-rankings

GREAT LAKES               
1   DePauw                    22-0   22-0      
2   Hope                    21-0   21-0      
3   Thomas More            21-0   21-0      
4   John Carroll            16-2   17-2      
5   Ohio Northern            17-4   17-4      
6   Baldwin Wallace     16-5   16-5      
7   Transylvania            18-2   19-2      
8   Olivet                    16-2   18-3
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 12, 2014, 06:03:58 PM
Quote from: sac on February 12, 2014, 04:09:46 PM
http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-women/d3/division-iii-regional-rankings

GREAT LAKES               
1   DePauw                    22-0   22-0      
2   Hope                    21-0   21-0      
3   Thomas More            21-0   21-0      
4   John Carroll            16-2   17-2      
5   Ohio Northern            17-4   17-4      
6   Baldwin Wallace     16-5   16-5      
7   Transylvania            18-2   19-2      
8   Olivet                    16-2   18-3

Anyone know who is on the regional committee this year in the Great Lakes?  On the NCAA.com website it says that the MIAA did not vote this week.  That seems odd.

Update:
Nevermind, I found it. It's Doreen Carden from Albion this year.

http://www.d3hoops.com/playoffs/women/2014/womens-basketball-championships-handbook-2014.pdf
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on February 12, 2014, 10:35:35 PM
Hope beat St. Marys 89-59 at De Vos.  Anna Kaufmann started instead of Angelique Gaddy and did a fine job this evening.  She scored 10 points and was 2/2 from 3-point range. Melissa Lareau spelled her and played well also.  We will certainly miss Angelique down the road, but for now we seem to be in good hands.  Word-in-the-seats (WITS) was that Angelique will have surgery tomorrow.  I have seen no confirmation from anyone who would know for certain.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 13, 2014, 01:52:55 AM
Quote from: wwjjdd on February 12, 2014, 10:35:35 PM
Hope beat St. Marys 89-59 at De Vos.  Anna Kaufmann started instead of Angelique Gaddy and did a fine job this evening.  She scored 10 points and was 2/2 from 3-point range. Melissa Lareau spelled her and played well also.  We will certainly miss Angelique down the road, but for now we seem to be in good hands.  Word-in-the-seats (WITS) was that Angelique will have surgery tomorrow.  I have seen no confirmation from anyone who would know for certain.

Kaufmann did a great job and has been playing well all year.  I'm told Gaddy has an ACL/MCL, we wish her a full recovery.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 13, 2014, 08:54:31 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 13, 2014, 01:52:55 AM
Quote from: wwjjdd on February 12, 2014, 10:35:35 PM
Hope beat St. Marys 89-59 at De Vos.  Anna Kaufmann started instead of Angelique Gaddy and did a fine job this evening.  She scored 10 points and was 2/2 from 3-point range. Melissa Lareau spelled her and played well also.  We will certainly miss Angelique down the road, but for now we seem to be in good hands.  Word-in-the-seats (WITS) was that Angelique will have surgery tomorrow.  I have seen no confirmation from anyone who would know for certain.

Kaufmann did a great job and has been playing well all year. I'm told Gaddy has an ACL/MCL, we wish her a full recovery.

Yes, we all have ACLs / MCLs  ;)

But seriously, that's never good to hear or see. Hope she has a successful surgery and can get back to playing quickly!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 13, 2014, 02:15:21 PM
Olivet really had a nice crowd for their game with Kalamazoo yesterday.  It looked like most of the football team came out to support the women.  Dressed up in all kinds of interesting outfits, generally carried on and made noise the whole game.  Fun.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 13, 2014, 05:49:47 PM
Another episode of Hoopsville is slated for tonight and #2 Hope WBB coach Brian Morehouse is scheduled to join us along with the following guests:

- Pomona-Pitzer MBB coach Charles Katsiaficas
- #15 Wittenberg MBB coach Bill Brown
- Stevenson WBB coach Jackie Boswell
- Maryville WBB coach Darrin Travillian
- Trinity (TX) WBB coach Cameron Hill
- Nazareth MBB coach Kevin Broderick
- St. Mary's (Md.) MBB coach Chris Harney

Show starts at 7 PM EST and will run at least 2:30 tonight.

You can tune in here: www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2013-14/feb13 (http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2013-14/jan12)

You can also follow us on social media
- Twitter (@d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) and #Hoopsville)
- Facebook (www.facebook.com/Hoopsville (http://www.facebook.com/Hoopsville))
- Email (hoopsville@d3hoops.com)

Thanks and enjoy the show!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 13, 2014, 09:31:30 PM
Hope Coach Morehouse was on hoopsville tonight.  49 minute mark

http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/index
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 15, 2014, 05:41:20 PM
Hope wraps up the MIAA championship with a 90-40 win vs. Trine today.  Trine was game and hung close for the first 10 minutes despite a huge size advantage for the Dutch.  Another double double for McAfee in only 17 minutes, the rest of the starters played even less.  Lots of PT for everyone and everyone scored at least 4 except the two young ladies up from the JV.  The Dutch go 13-24 from behind the arc, with Traversa going 5-8; they have raised their team 3 pt % into the top 10 nationally I believe.  Anna Kaufmann played another excellent game starting for injured Angelique Gaddy, including 3-3 from downtown.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 15, 2014, 06:37:06 PM
President John Knapp ‏@PresKnapp 12m

So proud of our star athletes and coaches for their 23-0 run to the MIAA title! (Just ignore that guy in the middle.) pic.twitter.com/7IfaB1hK0I

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BgjTYqCIgAAaZl7.jpg)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 16, 2014, 07:09:57 PM
Stephanie Lang had 22 points, 20 rebounds for Olivet in their win over Calvin.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 16, 2014, 10:54:09 PM
Quote from: sac on February 16, 2014, 07:09:57 PM
Stephanie Lang had 22 points, 20 rebounds for Olivet in their win over Calvin.

Yes, there were a lot of rebounds available as Calvin shot poorly on Saturday.

The final score was larger than the game was most of the way at the end. Olivet went on a run to start the second half that Calvin couldn't dig themselves out of. These teams will play in the semis of the MIAA tourney most likely and it will be down at Olivet most likely unless some strange things happen.  Should be a great game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 18, 2014, 12:09:18 PM
Is it pretty much a foregone conclusion that Stephanie Lang will be the league's MVP?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 18, 2014, 12:19:19 PM
Quote from: sac on February 18, 2014, 12:09:18 PM
Is it pretty much a foregone conclusion that Stephanie Lang will be the league's MVP?

Based on stats I would say yes and that is most likely how it will go.  I think it is deserved, she's had a great year.  But I think you could also argue that her teammate, Kelsey Campbell, could win it.  Without Campbell, I don't think Lang has the year she has had.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 18, 2014, 12:51:18 PM
Chelsea Ciba (Olivet) has been named to CoSIDA Academic All-America First Team, and Megan Kelley (Hope) to the second team.  Add in Mark Ghafari (Kalamazoo) on the men's 1st team.  Pretty good stuff MIAA!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 18, 2014, 04:28:47 PM
Quote from: sac on February 18, 2014, 12:09:18 PM
Is it pretty much a foregone conclusion that Stephanie Lang will be the league's MVP?

One might make an argument that there are some better players in the league, but its hard to think that there is a more valuable player to her team.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 19, 2014, 04:02:15 PM
1   DePauw                    24-0   24-0            
2   Hope                    23-0   23-0            
3   Thomas More            23-0   23-0            
4   Ohio Northern            19-4   19-4            
5   Baldwin Wallace    18-5   18-5            
6   John Carroll            17-3   18-3            
7   Transylvania            20-2   21-2            
8   Olivet                    18-2   20-3

Minor changes in order among the OAC teams.  I feel like Olivet should be ahead of Transylvania though.

Transylvania  .909/.476/0-1
Olivet             .900/.496/0-2
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 19, 2014, 09:48:34 PM
Olivet's Campbell Breaks Women's Basketball Assist Records

Olivet senior guard Kelsey Campbell broke the MIAA single-season and career assist records in women's basketball Wednesday in the Comets' 89-72 win over Saint Mary's.

Campbell's 11 assists against the Belles give her 120 for the season and 302 for her career in league play. Calvin's Kristen McDonald previously held the MIAA single-season record of 114, set during the 2004-05 season. Adrian's Jodi Condron had held the career assist mark of 299, set from 1987-91.

Campbell already holds the MIAA single-game assist mark of 16, set last year against Alma.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 20, 2014, 11:05:59 AM
While not an "official" milestone, I think it worthy to note and congratulate Coach Morehouse on his teams win last night.  Not only an undefeated records (thus far) and a perfect conference slate this year, but that was win number 450 for Coach Mo. His current coaching record is:

450 - 70  .865

Oh, and winning by a large margin:

Average score over 520 games 72.8 - 54.8

Absolutely amazing!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on February 22, 2014, 05:11:05 PM
The buzz from DeVos this afternoon was Hope fans delighted by Brittany Berry not being introduced for senior day--hinting that she will use her remaining eligibility next year?  She is such a pleasure to watch, and what a big boost to next year's team that would be.  May it be so.

I've heard that Angelique Gaddy is slated for ACL surgery this week.  She and Rebekah Lorens have been an enthusiastic and supportive presence on the bench.  If they can both return to full strength, at least by midseason next year, Hope will be a hard team to beat. . . . but not to look past this undefeated regular season--worthy of a pause to celebrate, regardless of what happens from this point forward

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 22, 2014, 05:23:46 PM
Quote from: pointlem on February 22, 2014, 05:11:05 PM
The buzz from DeVos this afternoon was Hope fans delighted by Brittany Berry not being introduced for senior day--hinting that she will use her remaining eligibility next year?  She is such a pleasure to watch, and what a big boost to next year's team that would be.  May it be so.

I've heard that Angelique Gaddy is slated for ACL surgery this week.  She and Rebekah Lorens have been an enthusiastic and supportive presence on the bench.  If they can both return to full strength, at least by midseason next year, Hope will be a hard team to beat. . . . but not to look past this undefeated regular season--worthy of a pause to celebrate, regardless of what happens from this point forward


Yes, congrats to the Dutch for completing the regular season undefeated. And yes the rumor has been that Berry is coming back.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: monsoon on February 22, 2014, 08:07:02 PM
Final from the NCAC:

Ohio Wesleyan 65
DePauw 64
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 25, 2014, 12:49:52 PM
Looking at Pool C for Olivet

There are 20 Pool C slots for the women this year.  I have Olivet in the 20-25 range for Pool C candidates based on last weeks rankings.  With upsets among the expected Pool A's, you really have to be 1-10 to feel good about a Pool C slot.

Olivet's problem is being ranked behind ONU/BW.   I don't think either of those are Pool C locks so Olivet may not ever make the table.

Some things have changed since last week but nothing in this region that moves Olivet ahead of any of the OAC ranked teams.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 25, 2014, 01:11:30 PM
Flying Dutch jump to #1 in the USA Today/WBCA poll, landing all 8 #1 votes.  Whitman #2, Thomas More #3, and DePauw drops to #4.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on February 25, 2014, 04:12:36 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 25, 2014, 01:11:30 PM
Flying Dutch jump to #1 in the USA Today/WBCA poll, landing all 8 #1 votes.  Whitman #2, Thomas More #3, and DePauw drops to #4.
With two key starters out with injuries (making an NCAA run a much bigger challenge), I'd say that an undefeated regular season ending with a #1 ranking is plenty enough to celebrate.  What a great season.  This team has been a joy to watch, and anything more is just icing on the cake.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on February 25, 2014, 04:30:30 PM
Quote from: pointlem on February 25, 2014, 04:12:36 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 25, 2014, 01:11:30 PM
Flying Dutch jump to #1 in the USA Today/WBCA poll, landing all 8 #1 votes.  Whitman #2, Thomas More #3, and DePauw drops to #4.
With two key starters out with injuries (making an NCAA run a much bigger challenge), I'd say that an undefeated regular season ending with a #1 ranking is plenty enough to celebrate.  What a great season.  This team has been a joy to watch, and anything more is just icing on the cake.


Very well stated.  Thanks pointlem!  :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on February 25, 2014, 08:56:52 PM
Quote from: gohope on February 25, 2014, 04:30:30 PM
Quote from: pointlem on February 25, 2014, 04:12:36 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 25, 2014, 01:11:30 PM
Flying Dutch jump to #1 in the USA Today/WBCA poll, landing all 8 #1 votes.  Whitman #2, Thomas More #3, and DePauw drops to #4.
With two key starters out with injuries (making an NCAA run a much bigger challenge), I'd say that an undefeated regular season ending with a #1 ranking is plenty enough to celebrate.  What a great season.  This team has been a joy to watch, and anything more is just icing on the cake.


Very well stated.  Thanks pointlem!  :)

And the next several years should be fun as well!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 26, 2014, 12:23:46 PM
Thomas More won by 93 last night over Thiel 127-34
http://www.thielathletics.com/custompages/wbb/201314/HTML/tmcthiw3.htm

As was pointed out to me, TM had 43 made shots, that was 12 more than Thiel was able to attempt.  50 turnovers for Thiel.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 26, 2014, 12:54:43 PM
Quote from: sac on February 26, 2014, 12:23:46 PM
Thomas More won by 93 last night over Thiel 127-34
http://www.thielathletics.com/custompages/wbb/201314/HTML/tmcthiw3.htm

As was pointed out to me, TM had 43 made shots, that was 12 more than Thiel was able to attempt.  50 turnovers for Thiel.

Those are some amazing stats.  I'm not sure what to make of TM.  Clearly they've added an incredible player in D1 Florida transfer Sydney Moss and their stats and winning margins this year are unmatched by anyone.  But their strength of schedule is considerably weaker than the rest of the highly ranked teams except FDU.  Last year they also had a stellar season except they lost to only two ranked teams they played, Calvin and a solid thumping by Carthage in the NCAAs.   But that was without Moss.

I guess I can only conclude they are certainly among the top teams in the country and their opponents better believe it.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 26, 2014, 01:47:47 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 26, 2014, 12:54:43 PM
Quote from: sac on February 26, 2014, 12:23:46 PM
Thomas More won by 93 last night over Thiel 127-34
http://www.thielathletics.com/custompages/wbb/201314/HTML/tmcthiw3.htm

As was pointed out to me, TM had 43 made shots, that was 12 more than Thiel was able to attempt.  50 turnovers for Thiel.

Those are some amazing stats.  I'm not sure what to make of TM.  Clearly they've added an incredible player in D1 Florida transfer Sydney Moss and their stats and winning margins this year are unmatched by anyone.  But their strength of schedule is considerably weaker than the rest of the highly ranked teams except FDU.  Last year they also had a stellar season except they lost to only two ranked teams they played, Calvin and a solid thumping by Carthage in the NCAAs.   But that was without Moss.

I guess I can only conclude they are certainly among the top teams in the country and their opponents better believe it.

Thomas More is an interesting team.  History in the NCAA tournament is not on their side.  They have made the NCAA tournament the last 7 years in a row and have only advanced past the first weekend twice.  In 2010 - 2011 they were the number one overall seed and lost at home to Wash U by 19 in the Sweet 16.

They typically have a really strong record going into the tournament but have not played a challenging schedule.  This year they have the 2nd lowest SOS among the 8 ranked GL region teams.  Their conference is normally pretty weak which doesn't help them in the long run.  That being said, they have been absolutely blowing teams out this year and might be a different story.  Jeff Hans has done a nice job of taking over the program and having Sydney Moss definitely helps your chances.  They will be an interesting team to keep an eye on in the tournament.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on February 26, 2014, 05:40:13 PM
I agree . . . the magnitude by which Thomas More has blown everyone out, thanks to returning most of their players and then adding "Miss Kentucky" basketball who was a star frosh at U. Florida . . . makes them a team I would not want to face early in the tournament.  I can understand why Bennett  (http://bennettrankbasketball.com/d3) ranks them #1 among DIII women, and Massey #2. 

Perhaps if Hope can win this week it can avoid meeting either DePauw or Thomas More the first weekend.  Better yet, from Hope's perspective, would be to be in an opposite bracket to those two teams, and to let them play each other.

P.S.  Contrary to my expectation, DePauw retains its #1 regional rank this week, leaving Hope and Thomas More as #2 and #3. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on February 26, 2014, 09:56:19 PM
The new Regional Rankings are out. Despite losing, DePauw retained the no. 1 ranking in the Great Lakes region over Hopoe and Thomas More, despite both teams being undefeated.

How does that work? Hope and Thomas More are a combined 49-0 this year, yet neither jumped DePauw in the rankings? What gives?!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 26, 2014, 10:04:39 PM
I agree with them. Yes, Hope and Thomas More are undefeated but their SOS are extremely weak. That is why they are still below DePauw.  The rankings are not just based on record.

SOS:
DePauw - .546
Hope - .497
Thomas More - .491
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 26, 2014, 10:13:59 PM
I'll never truly understand it... probably mostly because I'm unwilling to take the time to really understand the methodologies.  Massey also uses a SoS metric (DePauw 44; Hope 95, Thomas More 159) but has TM ahead of Hope which is ahead of DePauw.  At the end of the day, despite the math I guess its still subjective based on which math and which methodology the pollster chooses to think is important.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 27, 2014, 09:23:18 AM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 26, 2014, 10:04:39 PM
I agree with them. Yes, Hope and Thomas More are undefeated but their SOS are extremely weak. That is why they are still below DePauw.  The rankings are not just based on record.

SOS:
DePauw - .546
Hope - .497
Thomas More - .491

Just to "complete" the picture, the committees also consider RRO (Results versus regionaly ranked opponents)

DePauw is 2-0
Hope is 3-0
Thomas More is 0-0

Totally makes sense to me that they are ranked the way they are.  DePauw's SOS is strong enough to outweight that single loss.  Hope over TM (nearly identical records and SOS) comes down to the RRO.  Having no games against ranked teams can hurt TM (not that they won't make the tournament or anything, but it could affect hosting...).  Seen it on the mens side that a losing record versus RRO is better than no record versus RRO.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: iwumichigander on February 27, 2014, 09:07:56 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 27, 2014, 09:23:18 AM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 26, 2014, 10:04:39 PM
I agree with them. Yes, Hope and Thomas More are undefeated but their SOS are extremely weak. That is why they are still below DePauw.  The rankings are not just based on record.

SOS:
DePauw - .546
Hope - .497
Thomas More - .491

Just to "complete" the picture, the committees also consider RRO (Results versus regionaly ranked opponents)

DePauw is 2-0
Hope is 3-0
Thomas More is 0-0

Totally makes sense to me that they are ranked the way they are.  DePauw's SOS is strong enough to outweight that single loss.  Hope over TM (nearly identical records and SOS) comes down to the RRO.  Having no games against ranked teams can hurt TM (not that they won't make the tournament or anything, but it could affect hosting...).  Seen it on the mens side that a losing record versus RRO is better than no record versus RRO.
A very good analysis by both of you.

Quote from: Roundball999 on February 26, 2014, 10:13:59 PM
I'll never truly understand it... probably mostly because I'm unwilling to take the time to really understand the methodologies.  Massey also uses a SoS metric (DePauw 44; Hope 95, Thomas More 159) but has TM ahead of Hope which is ahead of DePauw.  At the end of the day, despite the math I guess its still subjective based on which math and which methodology the pollster chooses to think is important.
Focus on the NCAA math and methods for regional rankings and tournament.  NCAA could care less about Massey, USA or any other ranking system.  It's the NCAA way or no way
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 27, 2014, 09:56:49 PM
Calvin 80 Olivet 76  Lang 5 foul, but 32 points.. 
Hope 71  Adrian 48.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 27, 2014, 10:26:51 PM
Great season for Olivet and great crowd at Cutler to watch a very good D3 womens game.


Seems absolutely ludicrous you win 84.6% of your games and have no shot at an at-large bid but that is probably Olivet's fate.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 28, 2014, 08:46:46 AM
Phenomenal game last night between Calvin and Olivet.  Back and forth the whole game, each team answering each other's points.  Calvin did jump out to a 17-8 lead 9 minutes in but after that Olivet responded with a run and it was within 5 points the rest of the way, mostly 1 or 2 points.  Lang was impressive with 32 and 13 boards, she was tough inside last night.  Bre Verkaik also had a huge game for Calvin with 27 and 14 boards. 

Great season for Olivet.  It is a shame they will most likely not make the tournament.  This team could do some damage in the tournament and win a few games.  They are a tough team to play.  The crowd atmosphere was great last night as well.  Olivet did a great job of hosting.

Looking forward to the championship game on Saturday.  It should be a good one.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on February 28, 2014, 10:06:30 PM
I caught a few minutes of the Thomas More game this evening.  Their team has most of the starters back from last year's team which went 27-2 . . . plus added, as a transfer, the former Miss Kentucky basketball who averaged in double figures last year for Florida in her first year in the SEC (19+ ppg in the NIT tournament).  Tonight she scored an NCAA record 63 points.  Obviously, Thomas More is now a much better team than last year.

She will face better defense than she saw tonight.  Still, if I were a betting person, I'd put money on Thomas More as a contender for the NCAA championship.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 01, 2014, 09:11:13 AM
Quote from: pointlem on February 28, 2014, 10:06:30 PM
I caught a few minutes of the Thomas More game this evening.  Their team has most of the starters back from last year's team which went 27-2 . . . plus added, as a transfer, the former Miss Kentucky basketball who averaged in double figures last year for Florida in her first year in the SEC (19+ ppg in the NIT tournament).  Tonight she scored an NCAA record 63 points.  Obviously, Thomas More is now a much better team than last year.

She will face better defense than she saw tonight.  Still, if I were a betting person, I'd put money on Thomas More as a contender for the NCAA championship.

I agree, TM looks like a juggernaut right now.  I have to take a little solace from the fact that they allowed a 15-12 team with a very poor SoS to hang close all night and also shoot 53%, while TM played Moss 35 minutes and only went 7 players deep.  Moss took 41 shots and no one else more than 8.  They surely are a championship contender but it will be very interesting to see what happens when they play a top 25 team (they haven't all year) with some defense and great coaching.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on March 01, 2014, 11:40:45 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 01, 2014, 09:11:13 AM
Quote from: pointlem on February 28, 2014, 10:06:30 PM
I caught a few minutes of the Thomas More game this evening.  Their team has most of the starters back from last year's team which went 27-2 . . . plus added, as a transfer, the former Miss Kentucky basketball who averaged in double figures last year for Florida in her first year in the SEC (19+ ppg in the NIT tournament).  Tonight she scored an NCAA record 63 points.  Obviously, Thomas More is now a much better team than last year.



She will face better defense than she saw tonight.  Still, if I were a betting person, I'd put money on Thomas More as a contender for the NCAA championship.

I agree, TM looks like a juggernaut right now.  I have to take a little solace from the fact that they allowed a 15-12 team with a very poor SoS to hang close all night and also shoot 53%, while TM played Moss 35 minutes and only went 7 players deep.  Moss took 41 shots and no one else more than 8.  They surely are a championship contender but it will be very interesting to see what happens when they play a top 25 team (they haven't all year) with some defense and great coaching.

This is the first I realized that this is Randy Moss of the NFL's daughter.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: MaroonKnighty on March 01, 2014, 04:52:52 PM
1 down, 1 to go.  Let's go Lady Knights!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on March 01, 2014, 11:38:24 PM
Hollend Sentinel story on tonight's game.  Pay particular attention to the picture of the celebration after the win.  To me, this typifies the Hope Women's BB program.  Congrats to Coach Mo and all the ladies on the team.
http://www.hollandsentinel.com/article/20140301/SPORTS/140309884/2000/NEWS
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 02, 2014, 03:12:44 AM
Coach Mo's team is just a pure joy to watch.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 02, 2014, 09:26:07 AM
Quote from: sac on March 02, 2014, 03:12:44 AM
Coach Mo's team is just a pure joy to watch.
Amen, Sac.  They radiate joy and love--of the game and of each other--all of which adds to the pleasure of watching.

With Whitman's loss last night, Hope may be ranked#1 in d3Hooops poll.  Although I'd rather be going into postseason with Angelique and Rebekah on board, what this team has accomplished without them (and without last year's grads), is remarkable.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 03, 2014, 12:56:59 PM
For the third time Coach Morehouse will take his undefeated Dutch on the road in the NCAA's. :-\
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 03, 2014, 01:53:36 PM
Quote from: sac on March 03, 2014, 12:56:59 PM
For the third time Coach Morehouse will take his undefeated Dutch on the road in the NCAA's. :-\

If any team can fight through yet another obstacle, this one can.  Time and again this season they have demonstrated toughness and resilience.

In November, the Dutch traveled to NCAA-bound and perennial NACC champ Wisconsin Lutheran, survived a desperation 3 pt bank shot at the close of regulation, and rather than deflate they pulled away to beat WLC handily in overtime.

In December they survived the season-ending loss of leading scorer and starting center Rebekeh Llorens, and another desparation 3 pt heave at the end of regulation, and rather than deflate they pulled away to beat UW-La Crosse handily in overtime.

In February they survived the season-ending loss of starting point guard Angelique Gaddy and went on to win the MIAA regular season and tournament, going 27-0 to date.

I'm not saying they'll win it all, but I wouldn't bet against them either.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on March 03, 2014, 02:45:09 PM
Hope with the rematch against WI Lutheran.

It is at Carthage who plays St. Norbert.  Looks like a tough pod.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 03, 2014, 02:45:34 PM
at Carthage

Carthage v St. Norbert
Hope v  Wis-Lutheran


Not very creative considering this is a re-match.  Bracket suggests Hope is down the pecking order behind WashU/DePauw for hosting a sectional if they were to advance.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on March 03, 2014, 02:47:05 PM
Quote from: sac on March 03, 2014, 02:45:34 PM
at Carthage

Carthage v St. Norbert
Hope v  Wis-Lutheran


Not very creative considering this is a re-match.  Bracket suggests Hope is down the pecking order behind WashU/DePauw for hosting a sectional if they were to advance.

Not totally surprising though as the NCAA did that last year with St. Thomas and Calvin in the first round.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Captain_Joe08 on March 03, 2014, 03:37:19 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 03, 2014, 01:53:36 PM
Quote from: sac on March 03, 2014, 12:56:59 PM
For the third time Coach Morehouse will take his undefeated Dutch on the road in the NCAA's. :-\

If any team can fight through yet another obstacle, this one can.  Time and again this season they have demonstrated toughness and resilience.

In November, the Dutch traveled to NCAA-bound and perennial NACC champ Wisconsin Lutheran, survived a desperation 3 pt bank shot at the close of regulation, and rather than deflate they pulled away to beat WLC handily in overtime.

In December they survived the season-ending loss of leading scorer and starting center Rebekeh Llorens, and another desparation 3 pt heave at the end of regulation, and rather than deflate they pulled away to beat WLC handily in overtime.

In February they survived the season-ending loss of starting point guard Angelique Gaddy and went on to win the MIAA regular season and tournament, going 27-0 to date.

I'm not saying they'll win it all, but I wouldn't bet against them either.

Don't remember WLC playing Hope again in December. You mean UW-LAX?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hwbb on March 03, 2014, 03:39:42 PM
Quote from: sac on March 03, 2014, 12:56:59 PM
For the third time Coach Morehouse will take his undefeated Dutch on the road in the NCAA's. :-\

Friday will be the ninth--and hopefully, Saturday the tenth--games the Hope women have played in the NCAA tournament as an undefeated team (2003 and 2008 were the other years they entered the tourney without a loss; both years they were knocked off in the elite eight). Number of those nine/ten games they've played at home: one. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 03, 2014, 03:47:13 PM
Quote from: Captain_Joe08 on March 03, 2014, 03:37:19 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 03, 2014, 01:53:36 PM
Quote from: sac on March 03, 2014, 12:56:59 PM
For the third time Coach Morehouse will take his undefeated Dutch on the road in the NCAA's. :-\

If any team can fight through yet another obstacle, this one can.  Time and again this season they have demonstrated toughness and resilience.

In November, the Dutch traveled to NCAA-bound and perennial NACC champ Wisconsin Lutheran, survived a desperation 3 pt bank shot at the close of regulation, and rather than deflate they pulled away to beat WLC handily in overtime.

In December they survived the season-ending loss of leading scorer and starting center Rebekeh Llorens, and another desparation 3 pt heave at the end of regulation, and rather than deflate they pulled away to beat WLC handily in overtime.

In February they survived the season-ending loss of starting point guard Angelique Gaddy and went on to win the MIAA regular season and tournament, going 27-0 to date.

I'm not saying they'll win it all, but I wouldn't bet against them either.

Don't remember WLC playing Hope again in December. You mean UW-LAX?

11/23/13       at Wisconsin Lutheran  WOT  78-72 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 03, 2014, 04:01:30 PM
Quote from: Captain_Joe08 on March 03, 2014, 03:37:19 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 03, 2014, 01:53:36 PM
Quote from: sac on March 03, 2014, 12:56:59 PM
For the third time Coach Morehouse will take his undefeated Dutch on the road in the NCAA's. :-\

If any team can fight through yet another obstacle, this one can.  Time and again this season they have demonstrated toughness and resilience.

In November, the Dutch traveled to NCAA-bound and perennial NACC champ Wisconsin Lutheran, survived a desperation 3 pt bank shot at the close of regulation, and rather than deflate they pulled away to beat WLC handily in overtime.

In December they survived the season-ending loss of leading scorer and starting center Rebekeh Llorens, and another desparation 3 pt heave at the end of regulation, and rather than deflate they pulled away to beat WLC handily in overtime.

In February they survived the season-ending loss of starting point guard Angelique Gaddy and went on to win the MIAA regular season and tournament, going 27-0 to date.

I'm not saying they'll win it all, but I wouldn't bet against them either.

Don't remember WLC playing Hope again in December. You mean UW-LAX?

You're right of course.  I went back and changed it to UW-La Crosse.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: monsoon on March 03, 2014, 05:18:35 PM
Hope certainly didn't get any favors with this bracket.  The geography could get interesting by the second weekend, too, depending on who survives.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 03, 2014, 10:25:15 PM
Quote from: monsoon on March 03, 2014, 05:18:35 PM
Hope certainly didn't get any favors with this bracket.  The geography could get interesting by the second weekend, too, depending on who survives.
Agree, Monsoon . . . the top five ranked teams are all on Hope's half of the bracket, which forces Whitman, DePauw, Thomas More, Wash U, and Hope to compete against each other (and some other good teams) for the right to play in the national championship game.  This may be a year where the toughest game is before the final game.  If the ratings are right, none of the east coast teams will have to face this level of competition before the final game.

If Hope were to win its games this weekend--not a given, especially with the loss of two key starters to injuries--then it potentially would have to face DePauw in the next game (too bad that couldn't have been put off another game or so).  If both put in to host, I wonder whether DePauw's #1 regional ranking or Hope's better house and revenue (and DePauw's already having a home floor opportunity) would be given priority.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on March 04, 2014, 07:45:19 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 18, 2014, 12:19:19 PM
Quote from: sac on February 18, 2014, 12:09:18 PM
Is it pretty much a foregone conclusion that Stephanie Lang will be the league's MVP?

Based on stats I would say yes and that is most likely how it will go.  I think it is deserved, she's had a great year.  But I think you could also argue that her teammate, Kelsey Campbell, could win it.  Without Campbell, I don't think Lang has the year she has had.

I guess the MIAA coaches see it differently. Maura McAfee is MVP of the MIAA. Megan Kelley, Defensive Player of the Year.

All-MIAA First Team
Kelsey Campbell, Olivet** (senior from Olivet/Olivet HS)
Brett deBear, Albion* (senior from Plymouth/Salem HS)
Megan Kelley, Hope* (senior from Rockford/Rockford HS)
Stefanie Lang, Olivet* (junior from Valparaiso, Ind./Valparaiso HS)
Maura McAfee, Hope* (sophomore from Midland/Midland HS)
Breanna Verkaik, Calvin* (junior from Holland/Holland Christian HS)=

All-MIAA Second Team
Nicole Antoine, Kalamazoo (senior from Lithonia, Ga./Lithonia HS)
Brittany Berry, Hope (senior from Grand Rapids/GR Catholic Central HS)
Shanlynn Bias, Saint Mary's (senior from Griffith, Ind./Griffith HS)
Chelsea Ciba, Olivet (senior from Olivet/Olivet HS)
LaQwana Dockery, Adrian (senior from Macomb Twp./Macomb Dakota HS)
Kayla Engelhard, Calvin (junior from Unionville/Saginaw Valley Lutheran HS)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hwbb on March 05, 2014, 01:09:02 PM
Quote from: pointlem on March 03, 2014, 10:25:15 PM
Quote from: monsoon on March 03, 2014, 05:18:35 PM
Hope certainly didn't get any favors with this bracket.  The geography could get interesting by the second weekend, too, depending on who survives.
Agree, Monsoon . . . the top five ranked teams are all on Hope's half of the bracket, which forces Whitman, DePauw, Thomas More, Wash U, and Hope to compete against each other (and some other good teams) for the right to play in the national championship game.  This may be a year where the toughest game is before the final game.  If the ratings are right, none of the east coast teams will have to face this level of competition before the final game.

Just another normal bracket for the D3 women's basketball committee, where the most important number seems not to be W-L, SOS, RPI, or national ranking, but bus fare.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: iwumichigander on March 06, 2014, 06:59:08 PM
Quote from: Hwbb on March 05, 2014, 01:09:02 PM
Quote from: pointlem on March 03, 2014, 10:25:15 PM
Quote from: monsoon on March 03, 2014, 05:18:35 PM
Hope certainly didn't get any favors with this bracket.  The geography could get interesting by the second weekend, too, depending on who survives.
Agree, Monsoon . . . the top five ranked teams are all on Hope's half of the bracket, which forces Whitman, DePauw, Thomas More, Wash U, and Hope to compete against each other (and some other good teams) for the right to play in the national championship game.  This may be a year where the toughest game is before the final game.  If the ratings are right, none of the east coast teams will have to face this level of competition before the final game.

Just another normal bracket for the D3 women's basketball committee, where the most important number seems not to be W-L, SOS, RPI, or national ranking, but bus fare.
Congratulations - the bolded above the best one liner I've seen this year!  Good work!! +1
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 07, 2014, 03:03:43 PM
An excellent story on Hope's Brittany Berry at: http://www.hollandsentinel.com/article/20140307/SPORTS/140309338/2000/NEWS

Quite an exceptional young woman....
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on March 07, 2014, 06:18:16 PM
Bizarre numbers so far in the Hope-WiscLuth game.  Hope 4-21 from the floor, getting out rebounded 15-9, but haven't turned the ball over, as compared to 7 TOs for Wisconsin Lutheran. Hope currently down 12-9 midway through the first half.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on March 07, 2014, 11:37:39 PM
Hope 60 / Wisconsin Lutheran 54
Scary moment in the 2nd half when Maura McAfee went down under the basket after a rebound.  They treated her calf and re-wrapped her ankle and she went back in later, limping only slightly.  Hope shot poorly for most of the first half, but had a small spurt just before the half.  Hannah Doell had a great game scoring and had her usual great defense and rebounding.  The result was in doubt until the end, leads varying from 2-6 points in Hope's favor.  But a big 3 by Brittany Berry put the game out of reach. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Captain_Joe08 on March 07, 2014, 11:38:28 PM
Hope moves on but it wasn't easy as they held off Wisconsin Lutheran 60-54.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 08, 2014, 09:41:57 PM
Great season Hope!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hwbb on March 09, 2014, 09:27:39 AM
A well-played game befitting the top-ten rankings of both teams...and one that should never have been played this early in the tournament. Congrats to the Flying Dutch on a terrific season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on March 09, 2014, 10:21:15 PM
For what it’s worth, Brittany Berry missed the last 8± minutes of the first half, which didn’t help the cause.  However, as stated above, this was an amazing year from a great group of young ladies and I really can’t wait until next year when they should have Angelique and Rebecca back in addition to the usual 2-3 three contributing freshpersons that Mo always seems to come up with.  I also have good reason to believe that Brittany will be back as well.  Life is good!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 17, 2014, 10:35:24 AM
d3hoops all-region teams
http://d3hoops.com/awards/all-region/2013-14/great-lakes-women
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 23, 2014, 11:53:52 AM
Congratulations to Hope's Maura McAfee fro making the D3hoops.com All-America 4th team.  The future is surely bright for Hope and this outstanding sophomore.  Maura and national player of the year Sydney Moss were the only sophomores selected.

I'm a little surprised Olivet's Stefanie Lang didn't get a mention.  I realize she has some limitations but 21.0 ppg, 13.9 rpg, 54% shooting is pretty darn impressive and she forces opponents to gameplan around her. Nonetheless, congratulations to Stefanie on a fantastic season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 23, 2014, 01:54:38 PM
This was quite a find, Alma vs Moravian  1992 National Championship game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NIJyINHtQg
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 23, 2014, 03:52:34 PM
Quote from: sac on March 23, 2014, 01:54:38 PM
This was quite a find, Alma vs Moravian  1992 National Championship game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NIJyINHtQg
Great find, Sac . . . and what a great (standing room only) house at Moravian, including a huge and enthusiastic student section.  When I visited a few of this year's women's games online, I was similarly impressed by the student section at Olivet and Whitman women's games. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on March 24, 2014, 11:17:05 AM
Yeah, assuming it's the same place, Moravian has a pretty small gym, particularly for seating capacity. I think the bleachers only go up 10 or 12 rows. I've broadcasted from there and it's one of the lowest "top of the bleacher" sight lines I can remember.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on April 06, 2014, 09:59:03 PM
Alma has a new coach

http://www.themorningsun.com/sports/20140404/alma-college-names-kris-johnson-as-next-womens-basketball-coach
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on April 07, 2014, 08:54:42 AM
Trine has a new coach as well:

http://www.trinethunder.com/sports/wbkb/2013-14/releases/20140318m11ucb
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on April 10, 2014, 10:24:38 PM
Keisha Brown has passed away

http://www.themorningsun.com/20140410/mid-michigan-coaching-standout-keisha-brown-dies-at-41
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: kate on April 11, 2014, 01:02:23 PM
So sad, she was so very young - condolences to all who knew her.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on April 14, 2014, 06:57:04 PM


http://www.themorningsun.com/20140414/nate-schneider-the-impact-keisha-brown-made-on-our-mid-michigan-community-is-immeasurable
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on July 05, 2014, 07:21:39 AM
Hope's 2014-15 schedule is out:  http://athletics.hope.edu/sports/wbkb/2014-15/schedule

Completely unlike last year, the Dutch spend considerable time in the early season playing in the friendly confines of Devos including hosting an early season tournament.  They should get a good early season litmus test hosting a tough Wheaton squad on 11/25.  They host their usual Post Exam Jam tournament featuring Chicago, then travel to Ohio Wesleyan in a tournament that also features Franklin and York.  There's also a testy game at Capital shortly after the New Year.  Overall, a very solid though maybe not a killer schedule.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on July 05, 2014, 10:17:29 AM
7 of last 9 league games on the road. 

Its fairly easy to make an equitable round-robin schedule, even with 9 schools, so that teams are playing 4  home games in each half of the conference season.

I'd be curious to know the reason why the MIAA schedule is so lopsided.  Last year Hope played 5 of their last 8 at home.  Neither case should really happen unless there are lots of scheduling conflicts.


Are they just trying to avoid the Wednesday mens/womens double-headers more?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on July 05, 2014, 07:56:13 PM
Quote from: sac on July 05, 2014, 10:17:29 AM
7 of last 9 league games on the road. 

Its fairly easy to make an equitable round-robin schedule, even with 9 schools, so that teams are playing 4  home games in each half of the conference season.

I'd be curious to know the reason why the MIAA schedule is so lopsided.  Last year Hope played 5 of their last 8 at home.  Neither case should really happen unless there are lots of scheduling conflicts.


Are they just trying to avoid the Wednesday mens/womens double-headers more?
Check the St Marys (at home) game.  It has to occur in the post exam jam weekend, and that may be the root cause of the problem.  Calvin's schedule seems to only be showing 24 games so perhaps those non-conference games are as hard to schedule as we always believe they are.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on July 07, 2014, 10:20:50 PM
Quote from: realist on July 05, 2014, 07:56:13 PM
Quote from: sac on July 05, 2014, 10:17:29 AM
7 of last 9 league games on the road. 

Its fairly easy to make an equitable round-robin schedule, even with 9 schools, so that teams are playing 4  home games in each half of the conference season.

I'd be curious to know the reason why the MIAA schedule is so lopsided.  Last year Hope played 5 of their last 8 at home.  Neither case should really happen unless there are lots of scheduling conflicts.


Are they just trying to avoid the Wednesday mens/womens double-headers more?
Check the St Marys (at home) game.  It has to occur in the post exam jam weekend, and that may be the root cause of the problem.  Calvin's schedule seems to only be showing 24 games so perhaps those non-conference games are as hard to schedule as we always believe they are.

Yes realist, you are right on the money as for the non-conference scheduling challenges.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on August 04, 2014, 02:44:15 PM
Hope has a familiar face as a new assistant.

http://athletics.hope.edu/sports/wbkb/coaches/KustCourtney
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on October 14, 2014, 05:09:22 PM
Practice starts tomorrow, it's a new year but I expect little change at the top of the MIAA basketball standings.  I see Hope, Olivet and Calvin as the top three again, though I think Calvin will leapfrog Olivet back into the #2 slot this year.  There's always some uncertainty around whether there will be incoming impact freshmen but barring a frosh sensation this is how I see the top three:

Olivet lost a lot of talent. a big chunk of scoring and almost all of their assists in Kelsey Campbell and Chelsea Ciba, but Stefanie Lang returns.  If Olivet can find someone to get Lang the ball in the post, she will continue to be a very tough matchup and will be hard to stop.  Nevertheless I see Olivet stepping back a little this year and finishing no better than third.

Calvin returns almost everyone, though the loss of Kristin Tripp hurts.  The Knights will have another year of the new offensive system under their belts and will have an experienced, senior laden team.  Breanna Verkaik and Kayla Engelhard are as good a duo as you'll find just about anywhere.  DIIINews has the Knights at #17 in their preseason poll.  That seems about right to me though they could go even higher.  This looks like a back to the future season with Calvin and Hope distancing themselves from the rest of the field.  I see Calvin as #2 in the league with the potential to pin a loss or two on Hope if they can hold their own on the boards.

Hope lost two very good guards in Megan Kelly (1st team MIAA and defensive POY) and Anna Kauffman, but the Dutch are still loaded.  MIAA POY and All America Maura McAfee is back inside while perhaps the best 3 pt shooter in DIII and 2nd team MIAA Britanny Berry returns for her final year of eligibility.  Defensive stopper Hannah Doell is a matchup nightmare who does a little of everything and is back after starting the past two years.  Add in the expected returns of outstanding post Rebekeh Llorens and slashing point guard Angelique Gaddy, both starters and among Hope's leading scorers when they went down with ACLs last year, and this could well be the top starting five in the country.  Unless someone else steps in, this five would boast three tall, athletic players in the 6'1" range; a deadeye 3 pt shooter with NBA range; and a slashing PG that can distribute, take it to the hole or stop on a dime with a very nice pull up jumper.  DIII News has Hope as preseason #4.  Much depends on if and how quickly Llorens and Gaddy can return to form, but if they do and everyone can stay healthy, I see the Dutch as serious national title contenders.  But they could be most vulnerable early in the season, especially at a very good Wheaton team away on Nov 25.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on October 15, 2014, 07:09:15 PM
Great post, Roundball.

With Brittany Berry and Mandy Traversa, Hope could have the best 3-point shooting in the country.  And when Angelique and Rebecca get back to full speed, this will be a hard team to beat. 

What remains to be seen is whether any new players at Hope, Calvin, Olivet and elsewhere are able to make a contribution.  Anyone have news of promising recruits?

Quote from: Roundball999 on October 14, 2014, 05:09:22 PM
Practice starts tomorrow, it's a new year but I expect little change at the top of the MIAA basketball standings.  I see Hope, Olivet and Calvin as the top three again, though I think Calvin will leapfrog Olivet back into the #2 slot this year.  There's always some uncertainty around whether there will be incoming impact freshmen but barring a frosh sensation this is how I see the top three:

Olivet lost a lot of talent. a big chunk of scoring and almost all of their assists in Kelsey Campbell and Chelsea Ciba, but Stefanie Lang returns.  If Olivet can find someone to get Lang the ball in the post, she will continue to be a very tough matchup and will be hard to stop.  Nevertheless I see Olivet stepping back a little this year and finishing no better than third.

Calvin returns almost everyone, though the loss of Kristin Tripp hurts.  The Knights will have another year of the new offensive system under their belts and will have an experienced, senior laden team.  Breanna Verkaik and Kayla Engelhard are as good a duo as you'll find just about anywhere.  DIIINews has the Knights at #17 in their preseason poll.  That seems about right to me though they could go even higher.  This looks like a back to the future season with Calvin and Hope distancing themselves from the rest of the field.  I see Calvin as #2 in the league with the potential to pin a loss or two on Hope if they can hold their own on the boards.

Hope lost two very good guards in Megan Kelly (1st team MIAA and defensive POY) and Anna Kauffman, but the Dutch are still loaded.  MIAA POY and All America Maura McAfee is back inside while perhaps the best 3 pt shooter in DIII and 2nd team MIAA Britanny Berry returns for her final year of eligibility.  Defensive stopper Hannah Doell is a matchup nightmare who does a little of everything and is back after starting the past two years.  Add in the expected returns of outstanding post Rebekeh Llorens and slashing point guard Angelique Gaddy, both starters and among Hope's leading scorers when they went down with ACLs last year, and this could well be the top starting five in the country.  Unless someone else steps in, this five would boast three tall, athletic players in the 6'1" range; a deadeye 3 pt shooter with NBA range; and a slashing PG that can distribute, take it to the hole or stop on a dime with a very nice pull up jumper.  DIII News has Hope as preseason #4.  Much depends on if and how quickly Llorens and Gaddy can return to form, but if they do and everyone can stay healthy, I see the Dutch as serious national title contenders.  But they could be most vulnerable early in the season, especially at a very good Wheaton team away on Nov 25.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on October 15, 2014, 07:19:04 PM
Olivet's potential PG solution is playing soccer.  I was told she was going to give basketball a go but had a recent knee injury that may change that.  She has a brand new Class B state championship ring.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on October 16, 2014, 04:09:31 PM
Article on Hope's Llorens and Gaddy, sounds positive.

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/article/20141015/SPORTS/141019349
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on October 17, 2014, 04:43:37 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on October 14, 2014, 05:09:22 PM
.......Unless someone else steps in, this five would boast three tall, athletic players in the 6'1" range; a deadeye 3 pt shooter with NBA range; and a slashing PG that can distribute, take it to the hole or stop on a dime with a very nice pull up jumper.  DIII News has Hope as preseason #4.  Much depends on if and how quickly Llorens and Gaddy can return to form, but if they do and everyone can stay healthy, I see the Dutch as serious national title contenders.  But they could be most vulnerable early in the season, especially at a very good Wheaton team away on Nov 25.

My bad, the Wheaton game on Nov 25 is at Devos.  That helps a ton, but I still think it will be a very tough game. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on October 22, 2014, 05:30:23 PM
 :) Hope Women's BB 2014-15 roster has been posted.  Brittany Berry is back, as had been hoped/expected.  Let the games begin!!!!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on October 30, 2014, 11:29:22 AM
Exhibition schedule


Nov 8   Olivet at IU-South Bend
Nov 8   Saginaw Valley St at Calvin
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on October 31, 2014, 01:12:40 PM
Pre-season poll  http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/women/2014-15/preseason

Hope #6, Calvin #31, Olivet #45


I can't see Olivet duplicating last season with losing 3 starters. :-\

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 04, 2014, 12:08:06 PM
MIAA Preseason Poll is out - unanimous pick to win it is Hope.

Preseason Poll Results (First-place votes in parenthesis): 1. Hope (8) 8 pts. 2. Calvin (1) 15. 3. Olivet 22. 4. Kalamazoo. 36. 5. Adrian 38. 6. Albion 40. 7. Saint Mary's 46. 8. Trine 55. 9. Alma 62.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 04, 2014, 03:40:00 PM
Trivia question:  when is the last time (in ANY sport) that Alma was not picked to come in dead last?

It seems they are even further down the food chain than North Park football or Millikin men's basketball.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 04, 2014, 03:57:45 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 04, 2014, 03:40:00 PM
Trivia question:  when is the last time (in ANY sport) that Alma was not picked to come in dead last?

It seems they are even further down the food chain than North Park football or Millikin men's basketball.

You are showing your less than "true familiarity" with the MIAA. 

To answer your question - August of 2014.  I can't find the actual posts, but I'm fairly certain that Alma was not picked last in Volleyball, Women's soccer, or Men's Soccer this season (they are in 4th, 3rd, and 4th respectively).  And keep in mind that they won the Women's National Championship in Basketball in 1992.  Rebuilding year with a new coach this year - for sure -  but they certainly aren't as lowly as those bottom dwelling CCIW schools  :)   ;)   :D   ;D   :P
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 04, 2014, 03:59:01 PM
What he said.


and this
http://www.goalmascots.com/sports/bsb/2013-14/releases/20140512mv3ze1
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 04, 2014, 04:43:42 PM
Yeah, I admit my familiarity with the MIAA is pretty much confined to football and men's basketball.  In those two sports Alma would seem to be about as lowly as NPU fball and Millikin bball.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 04, 2014, 04:55:44 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 04, 2014, 04:43:42 PM
Yeah, I admit my familiarity with the MIAA is pretty much confined to football and men's basketball.  In those two sports Alma would seem to be about as lowly as NPU fball and Millikin bball.

MBB - They were in the race for 4th place (and qualifiying for the league tournament) last year in the final week - and finished 5th.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 04, 2014, 04:58:26 PM
Alma's failures on the gridiron is fairly recent, they won an MIAA title as recently as 2004.

Compare the seasons of Alma and North Park Pat has put together on the team pages, its really not very comparable between those two.   Millikin and  Alma is a closer comparison.

http://d3football.com/teams/Alma/2014/index
http://d3football.com/teams/North_Park/2014/index
http://d3football.com/teams/Millikin/2014/index

Basketball?  Alma has one more conference win than North Park and , NP has a few more non-conference wins over this time frame.  Millikin has struggled more than both pretty easily.

http://d3hoops.com/teams/Alma/men/2014-15/index
http://d3hoops.com/teams/North_Park/men/2014-15/index
http://d3hoops.com/teams/Millikin/men/2014-15/index
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 04, 2014, 05:29:48 PM
I also followed women's bball back in the days of Hope's and Calvin's great centers (back when IWU had an equally great one - I was disappointed they never met on the court).  I thought ours would beat Hope's, though probably not Calvin's.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 04, 2014, 06:11:22 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 04, 2014, 05:29:48 PM
I also followed women's bball back in the days of Hope's and Calvin's great centers (back when IWU had an equally great one - I was disappointed they never met on the court).  I thought ours would beat Hope's, though probably not Calvin's.

My personal call:  Carissa > Christina Solari > Carrie.  But Christina never met the other two, so we will never know.

For several years I mourned each graduating class of truly great players, moaning doom and gloom.  It finally got thru my thick skull that one person did NOT graduate: Mia Smith.  Despite the graduation losses they kept going farther and farther in the postseason, culminating in their (so far) only national title.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 11, 2014, 01:48:08 PM
D3Hoops preseason All-America team is out, congrats to Olivet's Stefanie Lang for a 2nd team recognition.

Looking at the rest of the names, I just have to put in a plug for Hope junior Maura McAfee whom I believe should have been on the preseason team.  Last year she was the best player on one of the country's best teams and if memory serves received a WBCA coach's honorable mention.  Maybe Hope's usual 10 man rotation worked against her but in under 24 minutes/game she rang up 14.2 ppg on 55% shooting; 9.7 rpg; 2.7 steals, 1.5 blocks (led Hope in all these categories) 1.3 assists and was an excellent defender.

I guess it's the names at the end of the year that count, but still....
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on November 11, 2014, 02:45:24 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on November 11, 2014, 01:48:08 PM
D3Hoops preseason All-America team is out, congrats to Olivet's Stefanie Lang for a 2nd team recognition.

Looking at the rest of the names, I just have to put in a plug for Hope junior Maura McAfee whom I believe should have been on the preseason team.  Last year she was the best player on one of the country's best teams and if memory serves received a WBCA coach's honorable mention.  Maybe Hope's usual 10 man rotation worked against her but in under 24 minutes/game she rang up 14.2 ppg on 55% shooting; 9.7 rpg; 2.7 steals, 1.5 blocks (led Hope in all these categories) 1.3 assists and was an excellent defender.

I guess it's the names at the end of the year that count, but still....

Roundball999 - Couldn't agree more with you. Here's what was listed on the MIAA website:"As well as returning conference Most Valuable Player Maura McAfee. The 6-foot-1 McAfee, a junior, averaged a double-double in conference play as she averaged 14.3 points and 10 rebounds a game, shooting nearly 54 percent from the field."

I guess that those who compiled the list just don't have HOPE in their life......
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HOPEful on November 13, 2014, 09:10:45 AM
Quote from: gohope on November 11, 2014, 02:45:24 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on November 11, 2014, 01:48:08 PM

Looking at the rest of the names, I just have to put in a plug for Hope junior Maura McAfee whom I believe should have been on the preseason team...

I guess it's the names at the end of the year that count, but still....

I guess that those who compiled the list just don't have HOPE in their life......

This was my first reaction as well. However, I think a lot of it is positional. Nationally, the center position is not going to be nearly as deep as guard or forward. Still, the returning MIAA player of the year on the preseason #6 team in the country should probably be on the list, IMO.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HOPEful on November 17, 2014, 09:53:11 AM
Quote from: HOPEful on November 13, 2014, 09:10:45 AM
Quote from: gohope on November 11, 2014, 02:45:24 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on November 11, 2014, 01:48:08 PM

Looking at the rest of the names, I just have to put in a plug for Hope junior Maura McAfee whom I believe should have been on the preseason team...

I guess it's the names at the end of the year that count, but still....

I guess that those who compiled the list just don't have HOPE in their life......

This was my first reaction as well. However, I think a lot of it is positional. Nationally, the center position is not going to be nearly as deep as guard or forward. Still, the returning MIAA player of the year on the preseason #6 team in the country should probably be on the list, IMO.

Looks like she took offense to it as well :) 14 points and 12 rebounds in only 22 minutes of play in the first game against Finlandia
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on November 17, 2014, 10:24:25 AM
Also of note from Hope, no Angelique Gaddy.  Looks like they also updated the roster this weekend and have her listed but with no number.  I have heard that she tore her ACL again and is out for the year.  That is a pretty big loss for Hope, but they will still be a very good team without her.

You never want to see injuries, especially big ones like ACLs.  Especially tough for her as she was just coming off tearing it last year.  Hopefully she has a great recovery.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on November 17, 2014, 12:56:53 PM
Watching the game on Saturday, Coach Morehouse couldn't get Llorens out of the game fast enough with a little over 8 minutes left in the game, after watching Llorens battling hard inside and hopping up and down on one leg trying to keep her balance.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 17, 2014, 01:05:49 PM
Yes, Gaddy out for the year.  I feel badly for her and of course it is a loss for the team too.  Melissa Lareau was a candidate to start at PG in Gaddy's absence, but she has been out with an ankle sprain.  Back soon, I heard.  Autumn Anderson did a very nice job with the start on Saturday.

I thought Llorens looked very solid for her first game back after her ACL (she didn't play in the preseason scrimmages).  Coach Mo did get her out quickly after she fell a bit awkwardly during a scrum under the basket (she's fine); no need to keep her in any longer during a blowout game. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 17, 2014, 02:22:59 PM
I thought Llorens looked really good as well considering her recovery.  No brace or extra support at all on her knee makes me think she has confidence in it - which is often the most difficult part of the recovery - getting back the confidence.  Gaddy will surely be missed, but the beauty of Llorens and McAfee on the floor together is really a pleasure to watch.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NACfan215 on November 17, 2014, 03:18:30 PM
Did anyone catch the Calvin/Lakeland game live saturday?  Any thoughts or comments regarding both teams and the game in general? Thanks
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 17, 2014, 03:39:35 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on November 17, 2014, 02:22:59 PM
I thought Llorens looked really good as well considering her recovery.  No brace or extra support at all on her knee makes me think she has confidence in it - which is often the most difficult part of the recovery - getting back the confidence.  Gaddy will surely be missed, but the beauty of Llorens and McAfee on the floor together is really a pleasure to watch.

Agreed, it was great to see Llorens and McAfee together again.  I also have to mention Hannah Doell's smothering defense and all around game, what a luxury to have an athletic 6'1" player that can stuff the stat line and cover just about anyone.  And what can you say about Britanny Berry?  More pinpoint no-look passes and "only" 4-5 from three point range to start the season.  She's just a joy to watch.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 17, 2014, 03:51:21 PM
Quote from: NACfan215 on November 17, 2014, 03:18:30 PM
Did anyone catch the Calvin/Lakeland game live saturday?  Any thoughts or comments regarding both teams and the game in general? Thanks

I wasn't there but watched a good bit of it streaming.  Tight first half, but Lakeland shot over 50% and Calvin about 25% including 0-11 from 3 pt range with Calvin standout Kayla Engelhard having a tough shooting game.  Calvin shot better and Lakeland worse in the 2nd half but the real difference in the game was turnovers, Lakeland had 30 to Calvin's 14.  Looked like a typical early season game, both teams probably a little rough around the edges but I think Calvin is definitely the better team.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on November 17, 2014, 10:51:22 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on November 17, 2014, 03:39:35 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on November 17, 2014, 02:22:59 PM
And what can you say about Britanny Berry?  . . . . She's just a joy to watch.
I'll say . . . thinking of her misdirection passing, her amazing shooting, and her expressive joy in the midst of play . . . she is something special. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on November 18, 2014, 04:26:40 PM
Quote from: pointlem on November 17, 2014, 10:51:22 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on November 17, 2014, 03:39:35 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on November 17, 2014, 02:22:59 PM
And what can you say about Britanny Berry?  . . . . She's just a joy to watch.
I'll say . . . her misdirection passing, her amazing shooting, and her expressive joy the midst of play . . . she is something special.

AMEN!!!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 22, 2014, 09:28:45 PM
Hope over Defiance 77-43 to win its own tipoff tournament.  Rebekah Llorens led the Dutch with 17 in 16 minutes and appears to be fully recovered from her ACL.  For the third straight game everyone played significant minutes and Hope won by 30 or more.  Britanny Berry hit another three 3 pts and is hitting the three ball at 63% for the season to date. 

Huge game vs. Wheaton on Tuesday.  Wheaton is very good and features preseason All American Ellie Zeller.  On paper looks to be Hope's toughest game of the regular season with possible exception of Calvin.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 24, 2014, 03:32:36 PM
OT: Hope women win the volleyball national championship with a 15-8 fifth game win over Emory in a match that was tight the whole way.  Big assist in my mind goes to Calvin; the four earlier match battles between the Knights and the Dutch had to be the best preparation the Dutch could have possibly received.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on November 24, 2014, 10:03:48 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on November 24, 2014, 03:32:36 PM
OT: Hope women win the volleyball national championship with a 15-8 fifth game win over Emory in a match that was tight the whole way.  Big assist in my mind goes to Calvin; the four earlier match battles between the Knights and the Dutch had to be the best preparation the Dutch could have possibly received.

It really has been great to see what these two programs have been able to do the last 5 years.  Truly incredible to have this much talent right in our backyard playing each other.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 25, 2014, 08:19:52 PM
Wheaton up 34-33 over Hope at the half.  Hope jumped out to an early 11-2 lead but Wheaton battled back, aided by 2 quick fouls on Maura McAfee which caused the Hope star to sit the last 12 minutes of the half.  Britanny Berry hit 3-4 from beyond the arc but went down hard near the end of the half, hitting her head on the floor.  She walked off after a few moments, anxiously waiting to hear her status.  Hannah Doell really stepped up, hitting two threes and 10 points during the first half.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 25, 2014, 09:24:25 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on November 25, 2014, 08:19:52 PM
Wheaton up 34-33 over Hope at the half.  Hope jumped out to an early 11-2 lead but Wheaton battled back, aided by 2 quick fouls on Maura McAfee which caused the Hope star to sit the last 12 minutes of the half.  Brittany Berry hit 3-4 from beyond the arc but went down hard near the end of the half, hitting her head on the floor.  She walked off after a few moments, anxiously waiting to hear her status.  Hannah Doell really stepped up, hitting two threes and 10 points during the first half.

Wheaton completes the big win over Hope, 82-75.  2nd half was back and forth the whole way, stats were pretty even but the difference was 52% shooting by Wheaton vs 33% by Hope.  Brittany Berry did not play in the 2nd half, though she was sitting on the bench.  With Berry sitting, Gaddy out for the year, Lareau not back from an ankle sprain and Perkins not yet ready after a long soccer season, depth seemed to be a problem this game.  Starters were all in double figures but Hope's depleted bench had a tough shooting night against a very good Wheaton team while Wheaton hit 65% in the 2nd half.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on December 04, 2014, 05:42:06 AM
Fairly routine win for Hope over Adrian 77-59.  The Dutch jumped out to a 16-0 lead after 7 minutes and coasted the rest of the way.  Starters played limited minutes and everyone played, everyone scored.  The starters look VERY strong.  McAfee had another double double in limited minutes, Doell is totally disruptive on defense and Berry had several of her classic misdirection passes highlighted by a play to end the first half where she drew away the entire defense with a fake pass leaving her with a layup.  The extended playing time for the reserves should help, turnovers and rebounding need some work for that group.  Klauka had a nice game.  Lareau and Perkins are still out with injuries though Lareau will apparently return soon; starter Gaddy had her ACL surgery and is out for the season. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on December 04, 2014, 03:36:40 PM
Does anyone know who the Hope player was, that had a knee brace on, was suited up but didn't play. Looked about 5'8" and was practicing 3 pointers during warmups.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on December 04, 2014, 04:13:05 PM
Quote from: jspiii on December 04, 2014, 03:36:40 PM
Does anyone know who the Hope player was, that had a knee brace on, was suited up but didn't play. Looked about 5'8" and was practicing 3 pointers during warmups.

If red hair, that would have been Melissa LaReau.  She was contending for starting pg once Gaddy went down with an ACL.  LaReau has been out since beginning of season with a high ankle sprain, not quite ready to play but did warm up last night.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on December 04, 2014, 04:28:03 PM
Roundball, do you think LaReau will start once she comes back and is full strength?  Obviously things change for starters once Gaddy went down for the year, but I still wouldn't think that LaReau would start, more of just a backup.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on December 04, 2014, 04:30:35 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on December 04, 2014, 04:13:05 PM
Quote from: jspiii on December 04, 2014, 03:36:40 PM
Does anyone know who the Hope player was, that had a knee brace on, was suited up but didn't play. Looked about 5'8" and was practicing 3 pointers during warmups.

If red hair, that would have been Melissa LaReau.  She was contending for starting pg once Gaddy went down with an ACL.  LaReau has been out since beginning of season with a high ankle sprain, not quite ready to play but did warm up last night.

It wasn't LaReau, it was someone I can't find on the varsity roster or the JV roster. This person had been in street clothes the last few weeks on the court with LaReau, Gaddy & Perkins.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on December 04, 2014, 07:10:48 PM
Quote from: jspiii on December 04, 2014, 04:30:35 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on December 04, 2014, 04:13:05 PM
Quote from: jspiii on December 04, 2014, 03:36:40 PM
Does anyone know who the Hope player was, that had a knee brace on, was suited up but didn't play. Looked about 5'8" and was practicing 3 pointers during warmups.

If red hair, that would have been Melissa LaReau.  She was contending for starting pg once Gaddy went down with an ACL.  LaReau has been out since beginning of season with a high ankle sprain, not quite ready to play but did warm up last night.

It wasn't LaReau, it was someone I can't find on the varsity roster or the JV roster. This person had been in street clothes the last few weeks on the court with LaReau, Gaddy & Perkins.

You got me then, I don't know.  ???
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on December 04, 2014, 07:13:40 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on December 04, 2014, 04:28:03 PM
Roundball, do you think LaReau will start once she comes back and is full strength?  Obviously things change for starters once Gaddy went down for the year, but I still wouldn't think that LaReau would start, more of just a backup.

I really don't know.  I heard that LaReau looked good before her ankle sprain and I believe that last year LaReau was ahead of Anderson on the pg depth chart, but things can change.  Anderson seems much improved too.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on December 05, 2014, 12:13:03 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on December 04, 2014, 07:13:40 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on December 04, 2014, 04:28:03 PM
Roundball, do you think LaReau will start once she comes back and is full strength?  Obviously things change for starters once Gaddy went down for the year, but I still wouldn't think that LaReau would start, more of just a backup.

I really don't know.  I heard that LaReau looked good before her ankle sprain and I believe that last year LaReau was ahead of Anderson on the pg depth chart, but things can change.  Anderson seems much improved too.

Thanks for the insight. It will be interesting to watch then.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on December 05, 2014, 04:00:07 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on December 04, 2014, 07:10:48 PM
Quote from: jspiii on December 04, 2014, 04:30:35 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on December 04, 2014, 04:13:05 PM
Quote from: jspiii on December 04, 2014, 03:36:40 PM
Does anyone know who the Hope player was, that had a knee brace on, was suited up but didn't play. Looked about 5'8" and was practicing 3 pointers during warmups.

If red hair, that would have been Melissa LaReau.  She was contending for starting pg once Gaddy went down with an ACL.  LaReau has been out since beginning of season with a high ankle sprain, not quite ready to play but did warm up last night.

It wasn't LaReau, it was someone I can't find on the varsity roster or the JV roster. This person had been in street clothes the last few weeks on the court with LaReau, Gaddy & Perkins.

You got me then, I don't know.  ???
Just found my answer. Hope just updated the varsity roster and added Allie Gorcyca 5'9" Freshman guard from Bloomfield Hills - Farmington Hills Mercy high school. Her knee injury dates back to a March 14 Class A semi-final loss.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 05, 2014, 06:42:28 PM
Mercy high school,  alma mater of LPGA golfer Meg Mallon, and the woman who co-wrote "Wrecking Ball"

Don't ask how I know this. ::)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: monsoon on December 08, 2014, 06:52:45 PM
Quote from: sac on December 05, 2014, 06:42:28 PM
Mercy high school,  alma mater of LPGA golfer Meg Mallon, and the woman who co-wrote "Wrecking Ball"

Don't ask how I know this. ::)

How do you know this? ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on December 14, 2014, 07:22:52 AM
Hope wins its Post Exam Jam tournament with a hard fought 76-68 win over a tough Chicago team.  Hope won Friday's game against St. Mary's 86-44 in a game that counted toward MIAA standings.

In the Chicago game, it was clear the Crimson concentrated their defense on Hope standout Maura McAfee who had a quiet game.  Things opened up for Britanny Berry who went off for a career high 28 which was a DeVos record by a Hope player.  Her 7 three pointers was also a DeVos record and tied the school record for threes in a game. Hannah Doell also stepped up, repeatedly beating her defender on drives to the hoop.  She ended up all over the box score and joined Berry (MVP) on the all tournament team.  Once again Hope started on fire and jumped out to a big lead, with Berry hitting the games first 8 points.  Chicago not only hung in but battled back to within three at the half.   Hope showed great resilience in the 2nd half and never gave up the lead, generally keeping a 6-10 point margin through the rest of the game.  A great, tough nonconference game for Hope that will unbdoubtedly help them down the road.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on December 15, 2014, 04:04:45 PM
Any thoughts/ideas as to why Britanny Berry wasn't the MIAA POW???
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 15, 2014, 06:08:33 PM
Quote from: gohope on December 15, 2014, 04:04:45 PM
Any thoughts/ideas as to why Britanny Berry wasn't the MIAA POW???

Thanks Obama?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on December 15, 2014, 06:53:27 PM
Quote from: gohope on December 15, 2014, 04:04:45 PM
Any thoughts/ideas as to why Britanny Berry wasn't the MIAA POW???

No disrespect to the honoree, but Berry should have been the only one even in the conversation.  Maybe they want to spread the award around a bit?  Sort of undermines the meaning of the award though....
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on December 16, 2014, 02:53:06 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on December 15, 2014, 06:53:27 PM
Quote from: gohope on December 15, 2014, 04:04:45 PM
Any thoughts/ideas as to why Britanny Berry wasn't the MIAA POW???

No disrespect to the honoree, but Berry should have been the only one even in the conversation.  Maybe they want to spread the award around a bit?  Sort of undermines the meaning of the award though....

I agree Berry should have won for this week, but to be the only one in the conversation is a bit much and takes away from Zink.  Zink scored 21 and shot 67% compared to Berry's 50% (yes the majority from 3 which is impressive obviously).  Zink also helped Alma win their first league game since February 2013 which is a big deal.  I'm guessing that played a big part in the decision.

I do think they tend to spread the award around though.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on December 16, 2014, 04:28:36 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on December 16, 2014, 02:53:06 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on December 15, 2014, 06:53:27 PM
Quote from: gohope on December 15, 2014, 04:04:45 PM
Any thoughts/ideas as to why Britanny Berry wasn't the MIAA POW???

No disrespect to the honoree, but Berry should have been the only one even in the conversation.  Maybe they want to spread the award around a bit?  Sort of undermines the meaning of the award though....

I agree Berry should have won for this week, but to be the only one in the conversation is a bit much and takes away from Zink.  Zink scored 21 and shot 67% compared to Berry's 50% (yes the majority from 3 which is impressive obviously).  Zink also helped Alma win their first league game since February 2013 which is a big deal.  I'm guessing that played a big part in the decision.

I do think they tend to spread the award around though.


Thanks for the additional thoughts.  I guess the following info just wasn't used for factoring a POW title:

"The senior guard from Grand Rapids, Michigan (Catholic Central HS), scored a career-high 28 points that set a DeVos Fieldhouse record for points by a Hope player in a game. Berry set a DeVos record with seven 3-pointers on a 7-of-13 shooting from 3-point range. The Tournament MVP tied the school record for 3-pointers in any game."    ???

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on December 16, 2014, 06:53:14 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on December 16, 2014, 02:53:06 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on December 15, 2014, 06:53:27 PM
Quote from: gohope on December 15, 2014, 04:04:45 PM
Any thoughts/ideas as to why Britanny Berry wasn't the MIAA POW???

No disrespect to the honoree, but Berry should have been the only one even in the conversation.  Maybe they want to spread the award around a bit?  Sort of undermines the meaning of the award though....

I agree Berry should have won for this week, but to be the only one in the conversation is a bit much and takes away from Zink.  Zink scored 21 and shot 67% compared to Berry's 50% (yes the majority from 3 which is impressive obviously).  Zink also helped Alma win their first league game since February 2013 which is a big deal.  I'm guessing that played a big part in the decision.

I do think they tend to spread the award around though.

You're probably right about Alma's first league win influencing the award.  But +50% from 3 beats 67% from 2 any day.  And considering the 28 pts, multiple school and DeVos records, and a much tougher opponent, I still think the choice for Berry was clear and obvious.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 17, 2014, 09:00:13 PM
Sports!  A humbling experience.


Brittany Berry vs Franklin tonight      1 point,  0-4 FGA,  0-2 3FGA, 1-2 FT.  5 rebounds,  4 assists, 3 turnovers
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on December 18, 2014, 11:20:55 AM
Any thoughts from Hope fans as to why McAfee and Llorens FG% is down so much this year?  Has it been that Hope has just played teams with a good post defense so far?  Looking at McAfee's FG% from last night's game made me wonder what she was shooting overall and then I noticed both her's and Llorens percentages were down.

2013-14:
McAfee 54.6%
Llorens 54.3%

2014-25:
McAfee 43%
Llorens 44.1%

And maybe this is what happened last year during non-conference and they will go up significantly during conference play due to the lack of depth in the league.  Just thought it was interesting.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 18, 2014, 11:50:21 AM
Quote from: bballfan13 on December 18, 2014, 11:20:55 AM
Any thoughts from Hope fans as to why McAfee and Llorens FG% is down so much this year?  Has it been that Hope has just played teams with a good post defense so far?  Looking at McAfee's FG% from last night's game made me wonder what she was shooting overall and then I noticed both her's and Llorens percentages were down.

2013-14:
McAfee 54.6%
Llorens 54.3%


2014-25:
McAfee 43%
Llorens 44.1%

And maybe this is what happened last year during non-conference and they will go up significantly during conference play due to the lack of depth in the league.  Just thought it was interesting.

http://miaa.org/wbb/stats/1314/hopew.htm
conference stats are separated further down the stats pages

both McAfee and Llorens shot lower percentages within the MIAA last season

McAfee 53.6%
Llorens 48.4%




Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on December 18, 2014, 12:41:43 PM
I'm not worried, I think both Llorens and McAfee will be fine.  Preseason schedule has been a little tougher this year, and some teams (such as Chicago) were really geared to clog the middle and help on the backside.  Llorens is also coming off an ACL and not playing competitively since late 2013, she looks good and will only get better.  Guard play is not as deep and less experienced (Berry aside) than last year, so it's possible the posts are not getting the ball in quite the same spots as last year.  But just speculating there.

Word is that Berry was not well before the Franklin game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 18, 2014, 04:09:53 PM
In a pretty ugly game offensively, it must have been a really ugly second half at the Hope v Franklin game.  Hope outscored Frankling 19-12 in the second half, with Hope shooting 18.5% from the field.  Good thing the Flying Dutch outperformed their season average from the FT line in this one (shooting 80%).  Point breakdown for Hope was 22pts from 2, 12 pts from 3, and 20pts from the line.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on December 18, 2014, 05:40:24 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on December 18, 2014, 04:09:53 PM
In a pretty ugly game offensively, it must have been a really ugly second half at the Hope v Franklin game.  Hope outscored Frankling 19-12 in the second half, with Hope shooting 18.5% from the field.  Good thing the Flying Dutch outperformed their season average from the FT line in this one (shooting 80%).  Point breakdown for Hope was 22pts from 2, 12 pts from 3, and 20pts from the line.

Ugly yes, though I actually take some encouragement from this.  Despite the offensive futility, the Dutch beat a 5-1 team on its court by the same margin as a quality team like DePauw beat Franklin - at DePauw.  Strong defense sure helps to bail you out on those nights when the shots just aren't falling.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on December 18, 2014, 07:45:49 PM
Maybe its the time of year.  Cabrini just beat previously undefeated and #6/7 Scranton 37-35.  Both teams were below 27% shooting, including Scranton going 1-18 from behind the 3 pt line.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 19, 2014, 08:42:43 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on December 18, 2014, 07:45:49 PM
Maybe its the time of year.  Cabrini just beat previously undefeated and #6/7 Scranton 37-35.  Both teams were below 27% shooting, including Scranton going 1-18 from behind the 3 pt line.

I blame it on the overload of finals :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 19, 2014, 02:55:46 PM
OFF-TOPIC - but in keeping with the recent questioning of awards, how does Amber Warners (Calvin VB Coach) get the AVCA coach of the year over Hope's Becky Schmidt?  Both teams had 2 losses on the season as they split their 4 meetings 2-2.  Both teams had a 1st and 2nd team All-American.  But Hope won the one match that really mattered, and then won the National Championship.  Seriously?????
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on December 19, 2014, 04:37:17 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on December 19, 2014, 02:55:46 PM
OFF-TOPIC - but in keeping with the recent questioning of awards, how does Amber Warners (Calvin VB Coach) get the AVCA coach of the year over Hope's Becky Schmidt?  Both teams had 2 losses on the season as they split their 4 meetings 2-2.  Both teams had a 1st and 2nd team All-American.  But Hope won the one match that really mattered, and then won the National Championship.  Seriously?????

Preach it FDF, Preach it!!!   :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on December 19, 2014, 05:14:44 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on December 19, 2014, 02:55:46 PM
OFF-TOPIC - but in keeping with the recent questioning of awards, how does Amber Warners (Calvin VB Coach) get the AVCA coach of the year over Hope's Becky Schmidt?  Both teams had 2 losses on the season as they split their 4 meetings 2-2.  Both teams had a 1st and 2nd team All-American.  But Hope won the one match that really mattered, and then won the National Championship.  Seriously?????

Couldn't agree more.  And actually, Calvin lost a couple matches early in the season (good teams, but matches Calvin would usually win - even more support for your argument) so final records were 31-4 vs. 34-2.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on December 22, 2014, 08:14:01 PM
Nice victory for the Lady Knights today over Lewis & Clark to remain undefeated.  Good luck against UC Santa Cruz tomorrow.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on December 23, 2014, 10:40:44 PM
Lady Knights take on the Banana Slugs and Cruz to 9-0 season start.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 03, 2015, 12:55:28 PM
Nice win for Hope last night over a solid Capital team at Capital, to run the record to 11-1.  Capital's Dixie Jeffers is an outstanding coach and after 3 games in four nights with 5 days straight on the road, this was a game that required a lot of mental toughness by the Dutch.  The Dutch fell behind early but overtook Capital late in the first half, maintaining the lead between 3-14 points the rest of the way.  Rebekah Llorens seems to be fully recovered from last season's ACL injury, matching her career high and posting her 3rd straight double double.  Maura McAfee was very strong as usual.  Britanny Berry was a little quiet, but it was clear from the pregame broadcast that coach Jeffers felt strongly that stopping Berry was key and consequently Berry was blanketed most of the game.  She did hit a couple of big threes when the Dutch were stretching it out in the 2nd half.  The focus on Berry may have helped open up room for Llorens and McAfee inside; with this Dutch team you have to pick your poison and that is why they are so tough.  Autumn Anderson continues to be a very pleasant surprise running the point, handling the ball well and being a constant threat to take it to the rim.  Hannah Doell hit a few big buckets and free throws and played her usual suffocating defense.  Interesting to see the Dutch play almost exclusively zone, bodes well that they've added a very good zone defense to their usual overplay man to man.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 07, 2015, 02:27:49 PM
Congratulation's to Hope Rebekah Llorens for being recognized as the MIAA WBB player of the week last week.  She had a great week with three consecutive double-doubles, but the important thing to me is to see an outstanding player (from any team) come back from a season ending ACL tear and subsequent surgery to achieve such success.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on January 07, 2015, 09:43:15 PM
Sophomore Mandy Traversa made 8 of 13 3-pointers tonight plus two other field goals to lead Hope with 28 points in the win over Albion.  She was awesome. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 08, 2015, 09:02:44 AM
Quote from: wwjjdd on January 07, 2015, 09:43:15 PM
Sophomore Mandy Traversa made 8 of 13 3-pointers tonight plus two other field goals to lead Hope with 28 points in the win over Albion.  She was awesome. 

Traversa's performance was notable in several ways:

- Broke the previous DeVos fieldhouse single game record for 3s of 7, held by several players including twice by Britanny Berry.
- Tied the DeVos single game scoring record of 28, achieved recently by Brittany Berry.
- Shattered by 11 points her previous single game personal best for scoring.

And she's not even a starter, though pretty much first off the bench.  What a luxury to bring that kind of firepower off the bench.

Albion did a nice job against Hope's reserves but the starters were overmatched.  Was impressed by the Brits Darian Payne, who is a nice player, works hard and had a nice game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 15, 2015, 01:19:10 PM
Worth noting that with another double-double last night, Maura McAfee tied the school record for career double-doubles at 23 - a feat she shares with Carries Snikkers. All 23 of these have occured during this season or last season - a total of 44 games.  During that span she is averaging 14.3 ppg and 9.6 rpg.

For her career she currently totals 750 pts and 580 reb. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 15, 2015, 02:01:57 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on January 15, 2015, 01:19:10 PM
Worth noting that with another double-double last night, Maura McAfee tied the school record for career double-doubles at 23 - a feat she shares with Carries Snikkers. All 23 of these have occured during this season or last season - a total of 44 games.  During that span she is averaging 14.3 ppg and 9.6 rpg.

For her career she currently totals 750 pts and 580 reb. 

She's a REALLY solid player.  Interesting comparison in the game with Olivet's preseason 2nd team All American Stefanie Lang.  On the offensive end, Lang went for 18pts and 14rebs while shooting 50%, while McAfee went for 20/10 while shooting 62%.  Both great numbers and pretty even.  But on the defensive end I think there's no comparison.  McAfee and Rebekah Llorens were able to repeatedly drive the lane for layups while Olivet was able to hit only 33% for the game.  Lang did have 7 offensive boards and a number of putbacks, she does a great job maximizing her advantage by keeping the ball high and has a nice touch using the board around the basket, otherwise that team shooting % would have been even lower.  I think the league coaches knew what they were doing when they picked McAfee as league MoP last year.  Perhaps McAfee will get some deserved national attention at the end of year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 15, 2015, 02:21:59 PM
I was looking at the starting five, and minutes played, and number of players scoring for last night's games.  Hope seemed to use a shorter bench than Calvin resulting in lots of minutes for starters.  Was this by design or did Olivet dictate this?
Over the years it always appeared that Hope liked to spread the minutes around whenever possible.
The Calvin coach commented that he liked (or words to that affect) being able to rest the starterss before Sat's big game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 15, 2015, 02:40:10 PM
Quote from: realist on January 15, 2015, 02:21:59 PM
I was looking at the starting five, and minutes played, and number of players scoring for last night's games.  Hope seemed to use a shorter bench than Calvin resulting in lots of minutes for starters.  Was this by design or did Olivet dictate this?
Over the years it always appeared that Hope liked to spread the minutes around whenever possible.
The Calvin coach commented that he liked (or words to that affect) being able to rest the starterss before Sat's big game.

I think Hope's starters are as strong as any of their teams in recent years, but no doubt the Dutch aren't as deep as in some recent years so starters' minutes are up.  But playing at Olivet doesn't compare to hosting St. Mary's either, as evidenced by Olivet's lead over Calvin late in the 2nd half of their game recently.  Not surprising that Hope would play its starters a bit longer in their game last night.  But a starter playing 30 minutes instead of 20 minutes, in a game 3 days before, should be a non-factor for Saturday's game imo.

As for that game, I chicken out and call it a toss-up.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 15, 2015, 04:43:46 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 15, 2015, 02:40:10 PM
Quote from: realist on January 15, 2015, 02:21:59 PM
I was looking at the starting five, and minutes played, and number of players scoring for last night's games.  Hope seemed to use a shorter bench than Calvin resulting in lots of minutes for starters.  Was this by design or did Olivet dictate this?
Over the years it always appeared that Hope liked to spread the minutes around whenever possible.
The Calvin coach commented that he liked (or words to that affect) being able to rest the starterss before Sat's big game.

I think Hope's starters are as strong as any of their teams in recent years, but no doubt the Dutch aren't as deep as in some recent years so starters' minutes are up.  But playing at Olivet doesn't compare to hosting St. Mary's either, as evidenced by Olivet's lead over Calvin late in the 2nd half of their game recently.  Not surprising that Hope would play its starters a bit longer in their game last night.  But a starter playing 30 minutes instead of 20 minutes, in a game 3 days before, should be a non-factor for Saturday's game imo.

As for that game, I chicken out and call it a toss-up.
I didn't think the minutes would be a problem it was just a contrast I noticed when reviewing the box scores.

Calvin does not really have the size to match up that well with Hope.  With the game being in Holland it would seem Hope has the advantage, but I am willing to be proven wrong. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on January 15, 2015, 09:41:03 PM
I agree with Roundball that hosting St. Mary's is not like playing at Olivet and that is why you see the difference in minutes.  If you look at the overall average of minutes in the league this year Hope only has Berry at #10 for minutes played and Calvin does not have anyone in the top #25.  This is pretty typical of both programs. 

Hope has the advantage in the post for Saturday's game but I like how Calvin's press has been looking this year and their rebounding is much improved from last year.  I agree the game is a toss up and should be a great one.  Let's hope for an enjoyable afternoon of basketball on Saturday.  It is great to see these 2 programs remain strong and amongst the top teams in the country every year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 17, 2015, 04:55:31 PM
Calvin wins a tough one 76-74.  As Hope was making the run at the end of the game I wasn't sure if the Lady Knights had enough gas left for a furious finnish.  Great game by both teams.  Just not used to seeing Hope with that many t.o'.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on January 17, 2015, 06:30:51 PM
Yeah, I watched the online broadcast and thoroughly enjoyed it.

Both teams looked very good and the ending was fantastic. That was a really tough shot by Berry to take the lead late, forcing it over the rim somehow. And then Verkaik made a perfect pass in the paint to Acre for the winning basket.

Hope did make too many turnovers in the final minutes, but kudos to them for rallying with some big threes by Berry and Traversa late in the game. I was most impressed by Calvin's speed and balance on offense. The Knights had a quickness advantage at most positions and Hope had a hard time staying in front of the Calvin ball handlers. Breanna Verkaik made some big plays near the end of the game, particularly saving the ball from going out of bounds to set up a three-pointer by Spayde. Verkaik has great body control when she gets in the air and Engelhard was really tenacious on offense.

Also, the Hope video broadcast was great. Good play-by-play and color commentary, nice graphics, minimal buffering, nice floor camera angles...just a nice presentation all the way around.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 17, 2015, 09:54:45 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on January 17, 2015, 06:30:51 PM
Yeah, I watched the online broadcast and thoroughly enjoyed it.

Both teams looked very good and the ending was fantastic. That was a really tough shot by Berry to take the lead late, forcing it over the rim somehow. And then Verkaik made a perfect pass in the paint to Acre for the winning basket.

Hope did make too many turnovers in the final minutes, but kudos to them for rallying with some big threes by Berry and Traversa late in the game. I was most impressed by Calvin's speed and balance on offense. The Knights had a quickness advantage at most positions and Hope had a hard time staying in front of the Calvin ball handlers. Breanna Verkaik made some big plays near the end of the game, particularly saving the ball from going out of bounds to set up a three-pointer by Spayde. Verkaik has great body control when she gets in the air and Engelhard was really tenacious on offense.

Also, the Hope video broadcast was great. Good play-by-play and color commentary, nice graphics, minimal buffering, nice floor camera angles...just a nice presentation all the way around.
Glad you enjoyed the game.  Hope does a pretty good job with it's broadcasts.  Hope women's bball has only lost 5 games versus 146 wins since the De Vos opened so any win by a visiting team on that floor is big news.  This was only Calvin's 2nd win there since the De Vos opened.
Everyone thinks of the men's rivalry, but the women's rivalry is equal, and the volleyball teams take up the slack in the fall.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on January 18, 2015, 12:20:55 AM
Here is a link to an obstructed view of  Calvin's final shot:
http://youtu.be/k3ClZEolSyI
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 18, 2015, 02:32:25 PM
Congrats to the Knights on a big win and rare victory at DeVos.  Those are two extremely good teams and while Hope has gotten some recognition, Calvin has been kind of sneaking up the polls.  Perhaps now the pollsters will realize just how good they are.  I thought it would be a toss up and it sure was, it seemed like whoever had the last shot was going to win.    These teams just battled each other right down to the wire.  And what a great atmosphere with 2600 enthusiastic fans, full cheerleading squad, a great local high school band, and one of the best live renditions I've seen of the national anthem, performed by Hope's excellent male a cappella group 12th St. Harmony.  Looking forward to the next matchup.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on January 20, 2015, 01:14:18 PM
Great Calvin/Hope game.  I was surprised at how athletic and quick Calvin's whole team was.  Kudos to the Knights.
Berry from Hope seemed sluggish is she struggling with health?  We hope not.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 20, 2015, 03:54:13 PM
Quote from: bballforever on January 20, 2015, 01:14:18 PM
Great Calvin/Hope game.  I was surprised at how athletic and quick Calvin's whole team was.  Kudos to the Knights.
Berry from Hope seemed sluggish is she struggling with health?  We hope not.

You do not have to go back too many years to a time when Calvin strggled with slower players (especially in the backcourt).  This was evidenced  by  turnovers.  Calvin did not react well historically when teams used full court, and in your face type defenses.  After Carissa V. departed Calvin needed to come up with a new means to play well without the size they enjoyed.  It seems to me that Coach Ross has figured out the best way to beat a pressing, agressive team is to become one yourself.  It is hard to gauge player speed etc., but it sure does seem like Calvin is reacting faster to ball movement that I ever remember them doing, and more importantly they seem to be anticipating passes, and passing lanes. 

If you watch Ms. Berry in the short clip above it does not appear to me that she has lost anything speed wise if that basket and foul are any representation of her ability.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on January 20, 2015, 05:29:18 PM
Calvin moves up to number 10 in the polls.  A nice position for this undefeated and constantly improving team.  I expect them to keep climbing.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on January 25, 2015, 11:28:22 AM
Hope's newest recruit has committed very early:  www.celinaking.com

Be sure to click on her "Blog" and watch her play with the high school boys last fall as a junior!

How did we get her?  Did Courtney Kust, former Hope star also from Cincinnati and currently a Hope Assistant Coach, have something to do with Celina coming to Hope?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 25, 2015, 12:10:55 PM
Quote from: AlwaysHope on January 25, 2015, 11:28:22 AM
Hope's newest recruit has committed very early:  www.celinaking.com

Be sure to click on her "Blog" and watch her play with the high school boys last fall as a junior!


Looks like quite the catch for Hope, this young lady appears to be both a player and has her priorities right!  Would love to see Gaddy recover fully too, the two of them together with returning Anderson would seem to make a very strong back court.  Now Coach Morehouse has to land a few bigs to replace +6' seniors Llorens, Doell, and Klauka.  Of course, having McAfee back next year is huge, Traversa too, and Geers seems to be improving rapidly as a wing player.  If this year's frosh bigs improve over the summer and Hope lands one or two more, future looks very bright.

But I'm getting ahead of myself... lots still to play this year and the Dutch are putting together a great season. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on January 25, 2015, 03:15:28 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 25, 2015, 12:10:55 PM
Quote from: AlwaysHope on January 25, 2015, 11:28:22 AM
Hope's newest recruit has committed very early:  www.celinaking.com

Be sure to click on her "Blog" and watch her play with the high school boys last fall as a junior!


Looks like quite the catch for Hope, this young lady appears to be both a player and has her priorities right!  Would love to see Gaddy recover fully too, the two of them together with returning Anderson would seem to make a very strong back court.  Now Coach Morehouse has to land a few bigs to replace +6' seniors Llorens, Doell, and Klauka.  Of course, having McAfee back next year is huge, Traversa too, and Geers seems to be improving rapidly as a wing player.  If this year's frosh bigs improve over the summer and Hope lands one or two more, future looks very bright.

But I'm getting ahead of myself... lots still to play this year and the Dutch are putting together a great season.
Ditto . . . though she's a high school junior . . . and so won't likely suit up with junior Autumn Anderson, but could make an amazing duo with Angelique Gaddy, assuming she sustains her early commitment (which could happen, given the seemingly good values that underlie her decision).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 25, 2015, 04:09:19 PM
Quote from: pointlem on January 25, 2015, 03:15:28 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 25, 2015, 12:10:55 PM
Quote from: AlwaysHope on January 25, 2015, 11:28:22 AM
Hope's newest recruit has committed very early:  www.celinaking.com

Be sure to click on her "Blog" and watch her play with the high school boys last fall as a junior!


Looks like quite the catch for Hope, this young lady appears to be both a player and has her priorities right!  Would love to see Gaddy recover fully too, the two of them together with returning Anderson would seem to make a very strong back court.  Now Coach Morehouse has to land a few bigs to replace +6' seniors Llorens, Doell, and Klauka.  Of course, having McAfee back next year is huge, Traversa too, and Geers seems to be improving rapidly as a wing player.  If this year's frosh bigs improve over the summer and Hope lands one or two more, future looks very bright.

But I'm getting ahead of myself... lots still to play this year and the Dutch are putting together a great season.
Ditto . . . though she's a high school junior . . . and so won't likely suit up with junior Autumn Anderson, but could make an amazing duo with Angelique Gaddy, assuming she sustains her early commitment (which could happen, given the seemingly good values that underlie her decision).

Good catch, I didn't realize she was only a junior.  Fingers crossed that she attends, a lot can change in a year especially given there is no real "commitment" in D3.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 31, 2015, 05:10:52 PM
St. Mary's plays Hope tough for the first 10 minutes before the Dutch explode to a 23 point halftime lead.  The Dutch coast from there for a 72-47 win; Brittany Berry goes 5-8 from behind the arc to lead the Dutch with 15. 

Hope starter Hannah Doell apparently didn't play, wasn't in the box score.  Anyone know why?  Hope the injury bug hasn't hit the Dutch again....
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 01, 2015, 08:58:59 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 31, 2015, 05:10:52 PMHope starter Hannah Doell apparently didn't play, wasn't in the box score.  Anyone know why?  Hope the injury bug hasn't hit the Dutch again....

Article in today's Sentinel says "leg injury, not serious".  I hope that's the case; with a bunch of away games including the rematch at Calvin, the Dutch will certainly need her especially her outstanding defense.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on February 03, 2015, 11:53:24 AM
Well deserved recognition for John Ross. 
http://www.mlive.com/smallcolleges/grandrapids/index.ssf/2015/02/calvin_womens_basketball_coach_1.html#incart_river (http://www.mlive.com/smallcolleges/grandrapids/index.ssf/2015/02/calvin_womens_basketball_coach_1.html#incart_river)

Interestingly with 19-0 record and 10-0 in league play, not a single Calvin player has been named MIAA player of the week this year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 03, 2015, 02:58:58 PM
Quote from: wiz on February 03, 2015, 11:53:24 AM
Interestingly with 19-0 record and 10-0 in league play, not a single Calvin player has been named MIAA player of the week this year.

Might be indicative of good team balance.

But I did notice that Breanna Verkaik was named to the D3Hoops national team of the week this week.  Congratulations to Ms. Verkaik!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 03, 2015, 03:29:38 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 03, 2015, 02:58:58 PM
Quote from: wiz on February 03, 2015, 11:53:24 AM
Interestingly with 19-0 record and 10-0 in league play, not a single Calvin player has been named MIAA player of the week this year.

Might be indicative of good team balance.

But I did notice that Breanna Verkaik was named to the D3Hoops national team of the week this week.  Congratulations to Ms. Verkaik!

Yes I agree.

And congrats Bre!
http://d3hoops.com/awards/tow/2014-15/week10
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on February 03, 2015, 05:12:55 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 03, 2015, 02:58:58 PM
Quote from: wiz on February 03, 2015, 11:53:24 AM
Interestingly with 19-0 record and 10-0 in league play, not a single Calvin player has been named MIAA player of the week this year.

Might be indicative of good team balance.

But I did notice that Breanna Verkaik was named to the D3Hoops national team of the week this week.  Congratulations to Ms. Verkaik!
Wonder how she pulled that off with all that team balance?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 03, 2015, 07:04:14 PM
Quote from: wiz on February 03, 2015, 05:12:55 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 03, 2015, 02:58:58 PM
Quote from: wiz on February 03, 2015, 11:53:24 AM
Interestingly with 19-0 record and 10-0 in league play, not a single Calvin player has been named MIAA player of the week this year.

Might be indicative of good team balance.

But I did notice that Breanna Verkaik was named to the D3Hoops national team of the week this week.  Congratulations to Ms. Verkaik!
Wonder how she pulled that off with all that team balance?

Who knows?  Ms. Verkaik averages 20 pts with 54% from behind the arc and gets D3Hoops national recognition but no MIAA recognition.  A couple weeks back, Maura McAfee averages 22.5 pts on 59% shooting, 15.5 rebs, 2.5 blocks and gets MIAA recognition but no D3Hoops notice.  Go figure, clear as mud.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on February 03, 2015, 08:09:17 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 03, 2015, 07:04:14 PM
Quote from: wiz on February 03, 2015, 05:12:55 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 03, 2015, 02:58:58 PM
Quote from: wiz on February 03, 2015, 11:53:24 AM
Interestingly with 19-0 record and 10-0 in league play, not a single Calvin player has been named MIAA player of the week this year.

Might be indicative of good team balance.

But I did notice that Breanna Verkaik was named to the D3Hoops national team of the week this week.  Congratulations to Ms. Verkaik!
Wonder how she pulled that off with all that team balance?

Who knows?  Ms. Verkaik averages 20 pts with 54% from behind the arc and gets D3Hoops national recognition but no MIAA recognition.  A couple weeks back, Maura McAfee averages 22.5 pts on 59% shooting, 15.5 rebs, 2.5 blocks and gets MIAA recognition but no D3Hoops notice.  Go figure, clear as mud.
Strong performances for both and Breanna and Maura and they put up these impressive stats with just 23 and 24 minutes, respectively.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 05, 2015, 10:53:39 PM
Great win for Calvin last night at home against Olivet.  Olivet played the Knights tough at their place back in early January.  Calvin came out strong and never looked back.

Congratulations to Kayla Engelhard as well for scoring her 1,000th career point at Calvin, well done!  She is the 14th member of the 1,000 point club at Calvin.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 07, 2015, 08:53:17 PM
I was able to stick around Albion and caught the first half of the Hope/Albion game.  Hope just obliterated the Britons in every way possible.  There's a good chance I saw Hope's best first half of basketball this year they were amazing.   

Brittney Berry and Mandy Traversa went 7-9 combined from 3 in the first half alone and a couple of those were really, really long shots.  Hope dominated every aspect of the game and led 55-19 at the half.

So I went home.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 08, 2015, 05:18:04 PM
Quote from: sac on February 07, 2015, 08:53:17 PM
I was able to stick around Albion and caught the first half of the Hope/Albion game.  Hope just obliterated the Britons in every way possible.  There's a good chance I saw Hope's best first half of basketball this year they were amazing.   

Brittney Berry and Mandy Traversa went 7-9 combined from 3 in the first half alone and a couple of those were really, really long shots.  Hope dominated every aspect of the game and led 55-19 at the half.

So I went home.

Albion coach said he set up the Brits to try to stop McAfee and Llorens inside, which explains why the Hope threes were raining down from 6 different players including 6-10 from Berry and 3-4 from Traversa.  That's what makes this Hope team so tough, multiple inside threats and two of the best three point shooters in the nation.  Pick your poison.  And now the defense seems to be really coming together, giving up an average of just over 50 ppg since the loss to Calvin and causing 20 turnovers in the first half alone yesterday.  Still, a very tough string of road games to finish the season including much improved Kalamazoo and Trine, the big game at Calvin, and home vs. a tough Olivet squad on Senior Night next Saturday.  Go Hope!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 09, 2015, 02:37:14 PM
Now we can say congrats to Breanna Verkaik for being named MIAA women's player of the week :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 09, 2015, 04:19:14 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 09, 2015, 02:37:14 PM
Now we can say congrats to Breanna Verkaik for being named MIAA women's player of the week :)
I knew I felt a disturbance in the force. :)  They say she is a jr., but this is her 4th season.  They might have confused her with her sister Kally, who is a jr.

Calvin stays at # 6 this week, and looking at the point spread with teams above them doubt they move.  Hope stays 13th as well.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 11, 2015, 04:07:44 PM
Regional rankings are out.

Calvin sits at #2 and Hope at #4

GREAT LAKES         
1   Thomas More   19-0   21-0
2   Calvin           19-0   21-0
3   DePauw           20-1   20-1
4   Hope                   19-2   19-2
5   John Carroll   18-3   18-3
6   Transylvania   19-1   20-1
7   Saint Vincent   19-2   19-2
8   Baldwin Wallace   17-4   17-4
9   Ohio Northern   16-5   16-5
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 11, 2015, 04:44:29 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 11, 2015, 04:07:44 PM
Regional rankings are out.

Calvin sits at #2 and Hope at #4

GREAT LAKES         
1   Thomas More   19-0   21-0
2   Calvin           19-0   21-0
3   DePauw           20-1   20-1
4   Hope                   19-2   19-2
5   John Carroll   18-3   18-3
6   Transylvania   19-1   20-1
7   Saint Vincent   19-2   19-2
8   Baldwin Wallace   17-4   17-4
9   Ohio Northern   16-5   16-5


Great Lakes again looks like a killer region, with the top 4 all being nationally ranked in the top 11 or 13, depending on your poll.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 12, 2015, 03:45:07 PM
Around the Nation hits Hope-Calvin from the women's side

http://d3hoops.com/columns/around-the-nation/2014-15/d3-top-rivalry-from-womens-angle
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 14, 2015, 01:44:27 PM
Calvin game at St. Mary's postponed.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on February 14, 2015, 05:46:59 PM
Quote from: sac on February 14, 2015, 01:44:27 PM
Calvin game at St. Mary's postponed.
Any word when it will be played?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 14, 2015, 09:36:10 PM
Quote from: wiz on February 14, 2015, 05:46:59 PM
Quote from: sac on February 14, 2015, 01:44:27 PM
Calvin game at St. Mary's postponed.
Any word when it will be played?

It will be Monday night (2/16)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on February 15, 2015, 05:56:48 PM
Quote from: sac on February 14, 2015, 01:44:27 PM
Calvin game at St. Mary's postponed.
Smart move.  I drove through that area.  Spent an hour not moving at all and spent a few hours slowly driving in white-out conditions.  Upside: Mrs. Northb and I are in Jamaica now.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 16, 2015, 09:32:43 AM
Quote from: northb on February 15, 2015, 05:56:48 PM
Quote from: sac on February 14, 2015, 01:44:27 PM
Calvin game at St. Mary's postponed.
Smart move.  I drove through that area.  Spent an hour not moving at all and spent a few hours slowly driving in white-out conditions.  Upside: Mrs. Northb and I are in Jamaica now.

Wow - that's along drive to Jamaica :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on February 16, 2015, 10:58:47 AM
Anybody attend the Hope/Olivet game on Saturday?  Were there lids on the baskets???!!!  Both teams shoot 21%???!!!!  Appreciate any comments, thoughts, etc!!!  Thanks!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 16, 2015, 12:10:36 PM
Quote from: gohope on February 16, 2015, 10:58:47 AM
Anybody attend the Hope/Olivet game on Saturday?  Were there lids on the baskets???!!!  Both teams shoot 21%???!!!!  Appreciate any comments, thoughts, etc!!!  Thanks!
I watched portions of the game live stream.  Both teams appeared to be playing very aggressive defense, and no one was getting easy looks at the basket.  Both tams were spending a lot of energy, and sometimes when that is going on shots get rushed, feet aren't squared up etc.  Teams have a tendency to get frustrated when things aren't falling the way they normally do, and sometimes an ugly game just feeds on itself.

With the big game on Wed. at Calvin it sure doesn't help that Calvin will be coming in after only 1 day of rest.  They did a 3 games in 4 day schedule several weeks ago, but that competition was not Hope level.   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on February 16, 2015, 12:43:34 PM
Quote from: realist on February 16, 2015, 12:10:36 PM
Quote from: gohope on February 16, 2015, 10:58:47 AM
Anybody attend the Hope/Olivet game on Saturday?  Were there lids on the baskets???!!!  Both teams shoot 21%???!!!!  Appreciate any comments, thoughts, etc!!!  Thanks!
I watched portions of the game live stream.  Both teams appeared to be playing very aggressive defense, and no one was getting easy looks at the basket.  Both tams were spending a lot of energy, and sometimes when that is going on shots get rushed, feet aren't squared up etc.  Teams have a tendency to get frustrated when things aren't falling the way they normally do, and sometimes an ugly game just feeds on itself.

With the big game on Wed. at Calvin it sure doesn't help that Calvin will be coming in after only 1 day of rest.  They did a 3 games in 4 day schedule several weeks ago, but that competition was not Hope level.


Thanks for the update and review!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 16, 2015, 01:44:34 PM
Quote from: gohope on February 16, 2015, 10:58:47 AM
Anybody attend the Hope/Olivet game on Saturday?  Were there lids on the baskets???!!!  Both teams shoot 21%???!!!!  Appreciate any comments, thoughts, etc!!!  Thanks!

Yes, pretty much lids on the basket I thought.  Lots of shots missed that might normally go in.

Aside from that, Hope played its usual aggressive overplay man defense and also did a very nice job fronting Olivet's outstanding post player Stefanie Lange.  Hope's bigs made it necessary for the entry pass to Lange to be perfectly placed, consequently Olivet turned it over a number of times by over throwing Lange on the lob entry.  When they did hit the entry pass to Lange, Hope usually had backside help but often with a guard so if the 6'4" Lange could catch it, she could shoot it.  But still with pressure and a hand in her face, so she only shot 27% vs her season avg 48%.

For Olivet's part, they pretty much played exclusively zone and did a nice job clogging the middle.  In recent past games, Hope's bigs have used their speed advantage to drive around Olivet's interior defenders.  Olivet did a really nice job taking that away, and the result was a record number of 3-pt attempts by the Dutch.  They were mostly good looks and with Hope's shooters, normally I'd say that was a bad gamble but on this day it worked very well for the Comets.

For the Dutch, this game was a perfect example of how defense can bail you out on a day when it seems you can't throw it in the ocean.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on February 16, 2015, 07:20:43 PM
New poll out tonight and Calvin remains ranked 6th as they are spanking St.Mary's on their way to a 23-0 record.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 16, 2015, 08:13:56 PM
Calvin wins 96-62 down at St. Mary's.  Great road win and now on to Wednesday night against Hope.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 17, 2015, 08:14:35 AM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 16, 2015, 08:13:56 PM
Calvin wins 96-62 down at St. Mary's.  Great road win and now on to Wednesday night against Hope.

Seems to me that Calvin has been firing on all cylinders in recent weeks while Hope has been a little less consistent.  If Hope brings their A game (like 1st half at Albion recently) then I expect another game like the nailbiter at DeVos a few weeks back.  Otherwise I think we're looking at a comfortable Calvin win hosting at VNA.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 18, 2015, 12:50:09 PM
Trine women are having a Zebra Appreciation Night tonight.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 18, 2015, 03:17:29 PM
Quote from: sac on February 18, 2015, 12:50:09 PM
Trine women are having a Zebra Appreciation Night tonight.

Like zoo animals or the ones with whistles?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 19, 2015, 03:46:53 PM
Regional rankings are out for this week.  Calvin stays at #2 and Hope drops to #5.  The rankings do not include games from this week.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 19, 2015, 03:48:18 PM
Great win by Calvin last night over Hope.  It was a tough night shooting for both teams but Calvin's offense stepped up enough and their defense really locked down on Hope.  Congrats to the Knights on winning the outright MIAA title last night.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 19, 2015, 05:27:09 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 19, 2015, 03:46:53 PM
Regional rankings are out for this week.  Calvin stays at #2 and Hope drops to #5.  The rankings do not include games from this week.

Always scratch my head at the screwy NCAA rankings.  John Carroll jumps ahead of Hope with a worse record including much worse performance against common opponents: 1 pt win over Kzoo (Hope avg margin +11 in 2 games vs Kzoo), 3 point win over Adrian (Hope avg margin +18 in two games vs Adrian); loss by 9 at Capital (Hope won by 9 at Capital).  Hope also quite a few places higher on Massey, I know that's not a factor for NCAA, just another data point.  Go figure.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 19, 2015, 09:41:20 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 19, 2015, 05:27:09 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 19, 2015, 03:46:53 PM
Regional rankings are out for this week.  Calvin stays at #2 and Hope drops to #5.  The rankings do not include games from this week.

Always scratch my head at the screwy NCAA rankings.  John Carroll jumps ahead of Hope with a worse record including much worse performance against common opponents: 1 pt win over Kzoo (Hope avg margin +11 in 2 games vs Kzoo), 3 point win over Adrian (Hope avg margin +18 in two games vs Adrian); loss by 9 at Capital (Hope won by 9 at Capital).  Hope also quite a few places higher on Massey, I know that's not a factor for NCAA, just another data point.  Go figure.

Purely a guess but John Carroll picked up a win over ranked Baldwin Wallace, so their RvRRO's is probably better than Hope, which I think was 0-2 going into this ranking.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 19, 2015, 10:49:56 PM
Quote from: sac on February 19, 2015, 09:41:20 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 19, 2015, 05:27:09 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 19, 2015, 03:46:53 PM
Regional rankings are out for this week.  Calvin stays at #2 and Hope drops to #5.  The rankings do not include games from this week.

Always scratch my head at the screwy NCAA rankings.  John Carroll jumps ahead of Hope with a worse record including much worse performance against common opponents: 1 pt win over Kzoo (Hope avg margin +11 in 2 games vs Kzoo), 3 point win over Adrian (Hope avg margin +18 in two games vs Adrian); loss by 9 at Capital (Hope won by 9 at Capital).  Hope also quite a few places higher on Massey, I know that's not a factor for NCAA, just another data point.  Go figure.

Purely a guess but John Carroll picked up a win over ranked Baldwin Wallace, so their RvRRO's is probably better than Hope, which I think was 0-2 going into this ranking.

Yes I think the committee valued the record versus regionally ranked opponents.  This wasn't available last week as no team was ranked yet. Hope is 1-2 and John Carroll is 4-1 against ranked opponents.

I think Hope is still very safe for a Pool C bid. I don't see how they would not make the tournament.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 20, 2015, 06:21:34 AM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 19, 2015, 10:49:56 PM
Quote from: sac on February 19, 2015, 09:41:20 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 19, 2015, 05:27:09 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 19, 2015, 03:46:53 PM
Regional rankings are out for this week.  Calvin stays at #2 and Hope drops to #5.  The rankings do not include games from this week.

Always scratch my head at the screwy NCAA rankings.  John Carroll jumps ahead of Hope with a worse record including much worse performance against common opponents: 1 pt win over Kzoo (Hope avg margin +11 in 2 games vs Kzoo), 3 point win over Adrian (Hope avg margin +18 in two games vs Adrian); loss by 9 at Capital (Hope won by 9 at Capital).  Hope also quite a few places higher on Massey, I know that's not a factor for NCAA, just another data point.  Go figure.

Purely a guess but John Carroll picked up a win over ranked Baldwin Wallace, so their RvRRO's is probably better than Hope, which I think was 0-2 going into this ranking.

Yes I think the committee valued the record versus regionally ranked opponents.  This wasn't available last week as no team was ranked yet. Hope is 1-2 and John Carroll is 4-1 against ranked opponents.

I think Hope is still very safe for a Pool C bid. I don't see how they would not make the tournament.

Agree.  I understand the NCAA system, I just happen to think it has some very deep flaws and could be much better.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on February 20, 2015, 07:57:38 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 20, 2015, 06:21:34 AM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 19, 2015, 10:49:56 PM
Quote from: sac on February 19, 2015, 09:41:20 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 19, 2015, 05:27:09 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 19, 2015, 03:46:53 PM
Regional rankings are out for this week.  Calvin stays at #2 and Hope drops to #5.  The rankings do not include games from this week.

Always scratch my head at the screwy NCAA rankings.  John Carroll jumps ahead of Hope with a worse record including much worse performance against common opponents: 1 pt win over Kzoo (Hope avg margin +11 in 2 games vs Kzoo), 3 point win over Adrian (Hope avg margin +18 in two games vs Adrian); loss by 9 at Capital (Hope won by 9 at Capital).  Hope also quite a few places higher on Massey, I know that's not a factor for NCAA, just another data point.  Go figure.

Purely a guess but John Carroll picked up a win over ranked Baldwin Wallace, so their RvRRO's is probably better than Hope, which I think was 0-2 going into this ranking.

Yes I think the committee valued the record versus regionally ranked opponents.  This wasn't available last week as no team was ranked yet. Hope is 1-2 and John Carroll is 4-1 against ranked opponents.

I think Hope is still very safe for a Pool C bid. I don't see how they would not make the tournament.

Agree.  I understand the NCAA system, I just happen to think it has some very deep flaws and could be much better.
How would you improve it?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on February 20, 2015, 10:12:24 AM
I think the rankings are right on after being at the Calvin/Hope game this week and watching Hope performance.  They looked far from a tourney team and probably will drop even lower now.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 20, 2015, 10:21:17 AM
Quote from: bballforever on February 20, 2015, 10:12:24 AM
I think the rankings are right on after being at the Calvin/Hope game this week and watching Hope performance.  They looked far from a tourney team and probably will drop even lower now.

Spoken like a true Calvin fan.  No doubt the performance on Saturday was not tournament quality - but that was one game
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 20, 2015, 11:59:22 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 20, 2015, 10:21:17 AM
Quote from: bballforever on February 20, 2015, 10:12:24 AM
I think the rankings are right on after being at the Calvin/Hope game this week and watching Hope performance.  They looked far from a tourney team and probably will drop even lower now.

Spoken like a true Calvin fan.  No doubt the performance on Saturday was not tournament quality - but that was one game

Both teams were feeling the stress and intensity of a Hope-Calvin game for all the marbles. The game certainly had the intensity of a tournament game.

Calvin and Hope both started out with very high intensity and way too much adrenaline. Almost all the shots in the first few minutes were long. Six minutes into the game the score was 2-2, and half of those points were from free throws. Calvin missed 14 of their first 15 shots.

Calvin's shooting percentage recovered; after those first 15 shots (and 14 misses) Calvin shot 47%. Hope started out 0-7 and 4-20, but they didn't recover as well, hitting only 5 of 28 (18%) in the second half.

Sometimes in these extremely intense battles shooting percentages are low. I also wonder if it was a factor that Hope used a shorter bench, with starters averaging nearly 30 minutes.



Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 20, 2015, 01:26:02 PM
Quote from: bballforever on February 20, 2015, 10:12:24 AM
I think the rankings are right on after being at the Calvin/Hope game this week and watching Hope performance.  They looked far from a tourney team and probably will drop even lower now.

I guess that means you thought Calvin was not a tourney team after the 1st game?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on February 20, 2015, 05:28:13 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 20, 2015, 01:26:02 PM
Quote from: bballforever on February 20, 2015, 10:12:24 AM
I think the rankings are right on after being at the Calvin/Hope game this week and watching Hope performance.  They looked far from a tourney team and probably will drop even lower now.

I guess that means you thought Calvin was not a tourney team after the 1st game?

??
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 21, 2015, 05:47:35 AM
Quote from: northb on February 20, 2015, 05:28:13 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 20, 2015, 01:26:02 PM
Quote from: bballforever on February 20, 2015, 10:12:24 AM
I think the rankings are right on after being at the Calvin/Hope game this week and watching Hope performance.  They looked far from a tourney team and probably will drop even lower now.

I guess that means you thought Calvin was not a tourney team after the 1st game?

??

My comment was inelegant, apologies.  I simply thought the OP about tournament readiness based on one game was quite dismissive of a body of work that included only losses to a couple of top nationally ranked teams including taking Calvin to the wire in the first game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 21, 2015, 08:52:07 AM
I saw Hope play Kzoo and they looked kind of meh.   A few weeks later I saw them play at Albion and they looked like Brian Morehouse's best team.  :-\
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 21, 2015, 09:07:09 AM
Quote from: sac on February 21, 2015, 08:52:07 AM
I saw Hope play Kzoo and they looked kind of meh.   A few weeks later I saw them play at Albion and they looked like Brian Morehouse's best team.  :-\


Agree.  I posted prior to the Calvin game that Hope was less consistent and it sure bit them at Calvin.  Nonetheless, they have beaten everyone they're "supposed" to beat including some nice non-league wins, with their only losses coming against top nationally ranked teams.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 21, 2015, 10:40:46 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 21, 2015, 09:07:09 AM
Quote from: sac on February 21, 2015, 08:52:07 AM
I saw Hope play Kzoo and they looked kind of meh.   A few weeks later I saw them play at Albion and they looked like Brian Morehouse's best team.  :-\


Agree.  I posted prior to the Calvin game that Hope was less consistent and it sure bit them at Calvin.  Nonetheless, they have beaten everyone they're "supposed" to beat including some nice non-league wins, with their only losses coming against top nationally ranked teams.

Well, I suppose, except that Hope was ranked higher than Calvin Early in the season and was "supposed to" beat them. The only reason they are not "supposed to" any more is that they lost to them.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 21, 2015, 11:37:10 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 21, 2015, 10:40:46 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 21, 2015, 09:07:09 AM
Quote from: sac on February 21, 2015, 08:52:07 AM
I saw Hope play Kzoo and they looked kind of meh.   A few weeks later I saw them play at Albion and they looked like Brian Morehouse's best team.  :-\


Agree.  I posted prior to the Calvin game that Hope was less consistent and it sure bit them at Calvin.  Nonetheless, they have beaten everyone they're "supposed" to beat including some nice non-league wins, with their only losses coming against top nationally ranked teams.

Well, I suppose, except that Hope was ranked higher than Calvin Early in the season and was "supposed to" beat them. The only reason they are not "supposed to" any more is that they lost to them.

I guess, if you're motivated by splitting hairs.

At the time of the first game, Hope was ranked 3 spots higher than Calvin.  Massey had it as a 1 point game.  Maybe some think that means Hope was "supposed to" beat Calvin; I call that pretty much a toss up which is how it played out.   Hope was ranked a bit higher at the beginning of the season, but losing your starting point guard to an ACL followed by a loss to a fine Wheaton team will tend to knock you down a few spots.

Perhaps it would have been clearer if I said my point was Hope had no bad losses to teams when there was a clear expectation of a win?

Anyway, congrats to Calvin on an exceptional season so far.  I will be pulling for them in the NCAAs unless they ever meet up with Hope.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 22, 2015, 11:29:37 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 21, 2015, 10:40:46 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 21, 2015, 09:07:09 AM
Quote from: sac on February 21, 2015, 08:52:07 AM
I saw Hope play Kzoo and they looked kind of meh.   A few weeks later I saw them play at Albion and they looked like Brian Morehouse's best team.  :-\


Agree.  I posted prior to the Calvin game that Hope was less consistent and it sure bit them at Calvin.  Nonetheless, they have beaten everyone they're "supposed" to beat including some nice non-league wins, with their only losses coming against top nationally ranked teams.

Well, I suppose, except that Hope was ranked higher than Calvin Early in the season and was "supposed to" beat them. The only reason they are not "supposed to" any more is that they lost to them.

An early ranking (preseason) that was based on the anticipation of a team that included Agelique Gaddy.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 22, 2015, 01:25:29 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 22, 2015, 11:29:37 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 21, 2015, 10:40:46 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 21, 2015, 09:07:09 AM
Quote from: sac on February 21, 2015, 08:52:07 AM
I saw Hope play Kzoo and they looked kind of meh.   A few weeks later I saw them play at Albion and they looked like Brian Morehouse's best team.  :-\


Agree.  I posted prior to the Calvin game that Hope was less consistent and it sure bit them at Calvin.  Nonetheless, they have beaten everyone they're "supposed" to beat including some nice non-league wins, with their only losses coming against top nationally ranked teams.

Well, I suppose, except that Hope was ranked higher than Calvin Early in the season and was "supposed to" beat them. The only reason they are not "supposed to" any more is that they lost to them.

An early ranking (preseason) that was based on the anticipation of a team that included Agelique Gaddy.

If you want to call the January 11th, Week 6 poll the preseason, ok.   ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 22, 2015, 08:01:10 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 22, 2015, 01:25:29 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 22, 2015, 11:29:37 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 21, 2015, 10:40:46 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 21, 2015, 09:07:09 AM
Quote from: sac on February 21, 2015, 08:52:07 AM
I saw Hope play Kzoo and they looked kind of meh.   A few weeks later I saw them play at Albion and they looked like Brian Morehouse's best team.  :-\


Agree.  I posted prior to the Calvin game that Hope was less consistent and it sure bit them at Calvin.  Nonetheless, they have beaten everyone they're "supposed" to beat including some nice non-league wins, with their only losses coming against top nationally ranked teams.

Well, I suppose, except that Hope was ranked higher than Calvin Early in the season and was "supposed to" beat them. The only reason they are not "supposed to" any more is that they lost to them.

An early ranking (preseason) that was based on the anticipation of a team that included Agelique Gaddy.

If you want to call the January 11th, Week 6 poll the preseason, ok.   ;)

I wasn't. The point I was making is that Hope was ranked high in the preseason, and then did nothing to cause a large fall in the poll. The single loss to another ranked team was not seen as a bad loss. DKs assertion that because Hope was ranked higher they were "supposed" to win is faulty in my opinion when you consider how Hope ended up ranked as they were. All that being said, the first rivalry game was basically a dead heat.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 23, 2015, 11:47:50 AM
IMHO Hope is never "supposed" to win.   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D  Only grugingly will I admit that sometimes Hope may be favored to win. :)

Before the Jan. game in Holland I will concede that Hope was favored to win.  Heck, before that game they had only lost 4 times on that floor so anytime the game is played at Hope they deseerve the "favored" tag. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 23, 2015, 12:16:46 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 22, 2015, 08:01:10 PM
I wasn't. The point I was making is that Hope was ranked high in the preseason, and then did nothing to cause a large fall in the poll. The single loss to another ranked team was not seen as a bad loss. DKs assertion that because Hope was ranked higher they were "supposed" to win is faulty in my opinion when you consider how Hope ended up ranked as they were. All that being said, the first rivalry game was basically a dead heat.

My point was that it's a little odd to say that Hope won all the games they were supposed to win according the polls -- the polls simply summarize the year's result to date. It's a little like looking at your driving record, which, say, shows two speeding tickets in the last year, and then saying you only got the speeding tickets you were supposed to get because you get about two a year.

I think I know what Roundball meant, though -- that Hope was consistent, only lost to highly ranked teams, and is having an excellent season, especially considering injuries. All true.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 23, 2015, 12:56:34 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 22, 2015, 08:01:10 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 22, 2015, 01:25:29 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 22, 2015, 11:29:37 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 21, 2015, 10:40:46 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 21, 2015, 09:07:09 AM
Quote from: sac on February 21, 2015, 08:52:07 AM
I saw Hope play Kzoo and they looked kind of meh.   A few weeks later I saw them play at Albion and they looked like Brian Morehouse's best team.  :-\


Agree.  I posted prior to the Calvin game that Hope was less consistent and it sure bit them at Calvin.  Nonetheless, they have beaten everyone they're "supposed" to beat including some nice non-league wins, with their only losses coming against top nationally ranked teams.

Well, I suppose, except that Hope was ranked higher than Calvin Early in the season and was "supposed to" beat them. The only reason they are not "supposed to" any more is that they lost to them.

An early ranking (preseason) that was based on the anticipation of a team that included Agelique Gaddy.

If you want to call the January 11th, Week 6 poll the preseason, ok.   ;)

I wasn't. The point I was making is that Hope was ranked high in the preseason, and then did nothing to cause a large fall in the poll. The single loss to another ranked team was not seen as a bad loss. DKs assertion that because Hope was ranked higher they were "supposed" to win is faulty in my opinion when you consider how Hope ended up ranked as they were. All that being said, the first rivalry game was basically a dead heat.

Couldn't agree more with the bolded statement above.  A game as exciting as that one and 2 lead changes in the last 10 seconds is dead even to me.

And I have to agree with realist on Hope being favored at home.  They have earned that right to be favored there for a long time.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 25, 2015, 07:07:05 PM
The 3rd and final "released" rankings are out. Calvin stays at #2 and Hope drops to #6.

Great Lakes:
1. Thomas More
2. Calvin
3. DePauw
4. John Carroll
5. Transylvania
6. Hope
7. Ohio Northern
8. St. Vincent
9. Baldwin Wallace

With Hope dropping to 6, if they lose in the MIAA championship there's a small chance they get left out. I really can't believe I just wrote that but as you get further down in the rankings it's not a good thing. It would be a mistake to leave them out and let's hope that doesn't happen. Someone correct me if my thinking is wrong here.

The teams above Hope are the #1 seeds in their conference tournaments so if they win that will help Hope. The OAC will be the conference tournament to keep an eye on.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 25, 2015, 07:21:50 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 25, 2015, 07:07:05 PM
The 3rd and final "released" rankings are out. Calvin stays at #2 and Hope drops to #6.

Great Lakes:
1. Thomas More
2. Calvin
3. DePauw
4. John Carroll
5. Transylvania
6. Hope
7. Ohio Northern
8. St. Vincent
9. Baldwin Wallace

With Hope dropping to 6, if they lose in the MIAA championship there's a small chance they get left out. I really can't believe I just wrote that but as you get further down in the rankings it's not a good thing. It would be a mistake to leave them out and let's hope that doesn't happen. Someone correct me if my thinking is wrong here.

The teams above Hope are the #1 seeds in their conference tournaments so if they win that will help Hope. The OAC will be the conference tournament to keep an eye on.

Its really about what Pool C position you're in.  In this case if the rankings stayed the exact same on selection Sunday Hope would be behind 5 teams from 5 different conferences.  If all those teams won their respective AQ's Hope would be 1st from the Great Lakes at the Pool C table.

All five of those teams ahead of Hope look safe for a Pool C if they needed one.  Unless tournament chaos happens Hope should be one of the first two teams from the Great Lakes at the table pretty early in the process.  Lots of great records out there though.

Hope was left home in 2012 with a 22-5 record.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 25, 2015, 10:05:27 PM
Hope wins 62-48 which is just about the most deceiving score of all-time.

Kzoo shot 3-33 in the first halft and at one point Kzoo were 6-50 from the field.  They finished the game making 9 of their last 15 shots to close the gap.  Hope didn't shoot it all that great themselves which resulted in 102 rebound opportunities in the game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 26, 2015, 07:01:31 AM
The Knights were great on both sides of the court, leading Olivet 72-27 six minutes into the second half. Olivet didn't give up, though, and made up some ground by the end of the game. Calvin ended up winning 88-54. The Knights hit 60% of their shots including 15 of 26 three-pointers.

Last year the Knights had trouble getting the ball inside with Lang there, and it was still difficult last night, but they pass well enough and quickly enough that they worked it inside a few times and ended up with 18 points in the paint.

Reid and Lang finished terrific careers for Olivet, with Lang ending up as their all-time leading shot blocker (109), second in scoring (1208), and third in rebounding (772).

This year's Calvin squad is fun to watch because they pass so dang well in addition to pressing and running the whole game. They keep passing it around until someone has a high-percentage shot. They're leading the nation in assists per game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 26, 2015, 07:41:13 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 26, 2015, 07:01:31 AM
The Knights were great on both sides of the court, leading Olivet 72-27 six minutes into the second half. Olivet didn't give up, though, and made up some ground by the end of the game. Calvin ended up winning 88-54. The Knights hit 60% of their shots including 15 of 26 three-pointers.

Last year the Knights had trouble getting the ball inside with Lang there, and it was still difficult last night, but they pass well enough and quickly enough that they worked it inside a few times and ended up with 18 points in the paint.

Reid and Lang finished terrific careers for Olivet, with Lang ending up as their all-time leading shot blocker (109), second in scoring (1208), and third in rebounding (772).

This year's Calvin squad is fun to watch because they pass so dang well in addition to pressing and running the whole game. They keep passing it around until someone has a high-percentage shot. They're leading the nation in assists per game.
The Lady Knights really are an amazing team, one I never would have predicted would go undefeated during the regular season. They've done it without a dominant post player or even a true superstar (Breanna Verkaik probably comes closest). They do have a ton of very good players who--as you correctly note--pass the ball very well allowing them to get the ball inside for easy baskets even against teams with a good post. These women also are exceptionally reliable outside shooters which makes their inside-outside game a joy to watch and difficult to stop. Playing a high tempo game that forces a lot of possessions only enhances their advantage on most teams. If there is one player who personifies this team's nature it's Anna Timmer, the daughter of Calvin's AD. She doesn't dominate any category but simply does everything well and combines a cerebral approach to the game with great temperament while being highly competitive.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 26, 2015, 10:00:38 AM
Quote from: oldknight on February 26, 2015, 07:41:13 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on February 26, 2015, 07:01:31 AM
The Knights were great on both sides of the court, leading Olivet 72-27 six minutes into the second half. Olivet didn't give up, though, and made up some ground by the end of the game. Calvin ended up winning 88-54. The Knights hit 60% of their shots including 15 of 26 three-pointers.

Last year the Knights had trouble getting the ball inside with Lang there, and it was still difficult last night, but they pass well enough and quickly enough that they worked it inside a few times and ended up with 18 points in the paint.

Reid and Lang finished terrific careers for Olivet, with Lang ending up as their all-time leading shot blocker (109), second in scoring (1208), and third in rebounding (772).

This year's Calvin squad is fun to watch because they pass so dang well in addition to pressing and running the whole game. They keep passing it around until someone has a high-percentage shot. They're leading the nation in assists per game.
The Lady Knights really are an amazing team, one I never would have predicted would go undefeated during the regular season. They've done it without a dominant post player or even a true superstar (Breanna Verkaik probably comes closest). They do have a ton of very good players who--as you correctly note--pass the ball very well allowing them to get the ball inside for easy baskets even against teams with a good post. These women also are exceptionally reliable outside shooters which makes their inside-outside game a joy to watch and difficult to stop. Playing a high tempo game that forces a lot of possessions only enhances their advantage on most teams. If there is one player who personifies this team's nature it's Anna Timmer, the daughter of Calvin's AD. She doesn't dominate any category but simply does everything well and combines a cerebral approach to the game with great temperament while being highly competitive.

No doubt the Lady Knights have made huge strides.  They were good last year with virutally the same roster, but have taken it to an entirely different level this year.  Not sure if it's just more familiarity with the new system Coach Ross installed before last year, or if its that the player themselves improved significantly.  Probably a combination of both.  As a Hope fan and setting aside the Rivalry for a moment, congrats to the lady Knights for a fabulous season to date.  It's only a good thing for the MIAA to have such a strong team among its ranks.  That said - Go Hope!  :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 28, 2015, 11:15:49 AM
Massey give Calvin a 78% win probability today, predicted score 70-61.  Sounds about right to me, unless the Dutch have one of their games shooting in the 20% range as they've done a couple of times recently; then I think it might be a bit uglier.  If they can hit 40% or better, then I think it goes down to the wire.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: DBQ1965 on February 28, 2015, 03:02:51 PM
Game time for the women and Van Nord looks to be 1/3 full.  Judging by the orange I see, Hope has a good contingent here.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 28, 2015, 03:52:06 PM
Quote from: DBQ1965 on February 28, 2015, 03:02:51 PM
Game time for the women and Van Nord looks to be 1/3 full.  Judging by the orange I see, Hope has a good contingent here.
That is the one draw back to a large arena.  They had 1328 at the Wed. night game on the 18th so it should be a tad higher today.
Most D3 schools would die to play in front of a crowd of 1500.

By my calculations B. Verkaik should be joining the 1,000 point club pretty soon if she hasn't already.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on February 28, 2015, 04:52:19 PM
Congratulations Lady Knights on winning the MIAA tournament and picking up the automatic qualifier.  A perfect 27-0 and counting.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 28, 2015, 05:09:07 PM
I follow the women in the MIAA and CCIW, but nationally not nearly as closely as the men.  Am I correct in assuming that Hope is still a near-lock for gaining a C into the tourney?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 28, 2015, 06:08:11 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 28, 2015, 05:09:07 PM
I follow the women in the MIAA and CCIW, but nationally not nearly as closely as the men.  Am I correct in assuming that Hope is still a near-lock for gaining a C into the tourney?

Should be, but you never know.  Combined losses of the teams that beat Hope is 3 for the year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: DBQ1965 on February 28, 2015, 06:39:10 PM
Quote from: realist on February 28, 2015, 03:52:06 PM
Quote from: DBQ1965 on February 28, 2015, 03:02:51 PM
Game time for the women and Van Nord looks to be 1/3 full.  Judging by the orange I see, Hope has a good contingent here.
That is the one draw back to a large arena.  They had 1328 at the Wed. night game on the 18th so it should be a tad higher today.
Most D3 schools would die to play in front of a crowd of 1500.

By my calculatio

ns B. Verkaik should be joining the 1,000 point club pretty soon if she hasn't already.

Right ...the lower bowl at Van Noord seats more than the Stoltz Sport's Center bball court at my alma mater.  Tonight I get to see the men go at it.  I expect the place to be rockin'.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: calvin_grad on February 28, 2015, 10:24:46 PM
Assuming they keep winning, what will the committee do since Calvin hosts the Final Four?  I can't believe they would let them stay home for all 3 weekends.  Home this coming weekend, then away for the Sweet Sixteen?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 28, 2015, 10:38:39 PM
Quote from: calvin_grad on February 28, 2015, 10:24:46 PM
Assuming they keep winning, what will the committee do since Calvin hosts the Final Four?  I can't believe they would let them stay home for all 3 weekends.  Home this coming weekend, then away for the Sweet Sixteen?

IIRC, that is what happened when IWU was the host and had credentials to host non-stop.  I, too, doubt they would allow a team to NEVER leave home.

UPDATE: I stand corrected.  In 2010, IWU hosted the FF and would have played all games at home if they hadn't laid an egg against UWSP in the third round.  (They finished the season 28-2, so had the credentials for hosting.  With so many undefeated teams in the general geographical vicinity, I don't know if Calvin would always host anyway, but apparently there is no precedent against it - unless others complained about 2010 and they would never do it again! ;D)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 01, 2015, 07:03:07 AM
Calvin's stirring 4 point win over Hope was the best game action I've seen this year--even better than the mindboggling comeback in the men's game. I say so for several reasons. The game was a contrast in and matchup of styles: Could Hope's superior size overcome Calvin's superior abilities in the full court game? The answer was becoming painfully obvious during the first half action--Calvin's strengths were able to overcome Hope's. Brian Morehouse knew it too and made the best strategy decision on the fly I've seen in a long time. Morehouse realized he had to inject speed into his lineup and went with a rotation of smaller, quicker players, the three non-starters, Madison, Sudberry and Smith, in order to do so. It nearly worked as that trio was better equipped to the demands of the full court game Calvin was imposing on Hope. Those three players would go on to score 35 points and turn a game that was destined to be a rout into a nailbiter. Calvin still got turnovers off  the press but it turned the game into an interesting chess match. Kudos to the Lady Knights who never wavered even as Hope crept up in striking range. The play of he game occurred in the closing seconds. With Calvin clinging to a two point lead, Abby Springer snatched Englehard's missed free throw out of McAfee's hands to maintain the possession for the Lady Knights. Congrats to both teams for putting on a terrific performance.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 01, 2015, 08:12:22 AM
Quote from: oldknight on March 01, 2015, 07:03:07 AM
Calvin's stirring 4 point win over Hope was the best game action I've seen this year--even better than the mindboggling comeback in the men's game. I say so for several reasons. The game was a contrast in and matchup of styles: Could Hope's superior size overcome Calvin's superior abilities in the full court game? The answer was becoming painfully obvious during the first half action--Calvin's strengths were able to overcome Hope's. Brian Morehouse knew it too and made the best strategy decision on the fly I've seen in a long time. Morehouse realized he had to inject speed into his lineup and went with a rotation of smaller, quicker players, the three non-starters, Madison, Sudberry and Smith, in order to do so. It nearly worked as that trio was better equipped to the demands of the full court game Calvin was imposing on Hope. Those three players would go on to score 35 points and turn a game that was destined to be a rout into a nailbiter. Calvin still got turnovers off  the press but it turned the game into an interesting chess match. Kudos to the Lady Knights who never wavered even as Hope crept up in striking range. The play of he game occurred in the closing seconds. With Calvin clinging to a two point lead, Abby Springer snatched Englehard's missed free throw out of McAfee's hands to maintain the possession for the Lady Knights. Congrats to both teams for putting on a terrific performance.

It really was a fabulous game, both teams should be proud.  Calvin for standing strong and fending off Hope's comeback attempts and Hope for showing great persistence and resolution even when falling behind by 17 on its rivals court.  I also think Morehouse made a good move when he switched defensive standout Hannah Doell onto Breanna Verkaik in the 2nd half.  Breanna had torched the Dutch for 17 in the first half but was held to 4 in the second.  Coach Ross also deserves huge kudos, the new system he installed last year in recognition of his roster's strengths has really paid off.

It will be interesting to see what the NCAA does with Calvin hosting in the early rounds.  They certainly have earned it.  But I recall two years ago when Hope was hosting the Final Four but was sent on the road in the early rounds despite entering the tournament with only one loss.  Seems to me the committee is loathe to the possibility of a team hosting all the way through.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 01, 2015, 12:58:42 PM
Quote from: DBQ1965 on February 28, 2015, 06:39:10 PM
Quote from: realist on February 28, 2015, 03:52:06 PM
Quote from: DBQ1965 on February 28, 2015, 03:02:51 PM
Game time for the women and Van Nord looks to be 1/3 full.  Judging by the orange I see, Hope has a good contingent here.
That is the one draw back to a large arena.  They had 1328 at the Wed. night game on the 18th so it should be a tad higher today.
Most D3 schools would die to play in front of a crowd of 1500.

By my calculations B. Verkaik should be joining the 1,000 point club pretty soon if she hasn't already.

Right ...the lower bowl at Van Noord seats more than the Stoltz Sport's Center bball court at my alma mater.  Tonight I get to see the men go at it.  I expect the place to be rockin'.
Attendance for yesterday's game is showing as 1521.  B. Verkiak did join the 1000 point club with her performance yesterday.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on March 02, 2015, 10:13:10 AM
The D3hoops mock bracket has both Calvin (auto bid) and Hope (at large bid) in it.  They have Calvin hosting and Hope on the road.  It's really hard to get the correct teams in the correct pods in the mock bracket so I'm guessing these won't be the exact teams Calvin and Hope will face.  But they do get pretty close to who hosts and who goes on the road though.

Calvin Pod:

Calvin vs Transylvania
John Carroll vs St. John Fisher

----------

SUNY Geneseo Pod:

SUNY Geneseo vs Penn State-Abington
Wittenberg vs Hope

We'll find out what the bracket is later today at 2:30pm.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 02, 2015, 02:54:43 PM
Calvin and Hope are on opposite sides of the bracket. Do I smell a future Van Noord Arena championship game?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 02, 2015, 04:24:30 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 02, 2015, 02:54:43 PM
Calvin and Hope are on opposite sides of the bracket. Do I smell a future Van Noord Arena championship game?

What fun that would be!  But before that, I'm thinking how much fun it would be to see a Calvin - North Central matchup if the Lady Knights get past BW. Calvin's pressure and excellent offense vs a system team.  Better have a handful of score keepers 😁

Of course NCC would also have to get past Oshkosh, a very good team I understand.  Also a post oriented team making for contrasting styles for sure.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on March 02, 2015, 05:13:06 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 02, 2015, 04:24:30 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 02, 2015, 02:54:43 PM
Calvin and Hope are on opposite sides of the bracket. Do I smell a future Van Noord Arena championship game?

What fun that would be!  But before that, I'm thinking how much fun it would be to see a Calvin - North Central matchup if the Lady Knights get past BW. Calvin's pressure and excellent offense vs a system team.  Better have a handful of score keepers 😁

Of course NCC would also have to get past Oshkosh, a very good team I understand.  Also a post oriented team making for contrasting styles for sure.
And, of course, Hope would need to find a way to get past Wheaton, if they make it that far.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 02, 2015, 05:23:12 PM
Quote from: wiz on March 02, 2015, 05:13:06 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 02, 2015, 04:24:30 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 02, 2015, 02:54:43 PM
Calvin and Hope are on opposite sides of the bracket. Do I smell a future Van Noord Arena championship game?

What fun that would be!  But before that, I'm thinking how much fun it would be to see a Calvin - North Central matchup if the Lady Knights get past BW. Calvin's pressure and excellent offense vs a system team.  Better have a handful of score keepers 😁

Of course NCC would also have to get past Oshkosh, a very good team I understand.  Also a post oriented team making for contrasting styles for sure.
And, of course, Hope would need to find a way to get past Wheaton, if they make it that far.

Of course, I'm not counting on anything with respect to Hope.  Too inconsistent.  I do think they have the talent to make a run but I think the Lady Knights have demonstrated more consistent high level play.

I was just commenting on what I thought would be a really enjoyable Calvin game to watch; hope it wasn't taken as assuming anything with respect to Hope. I surely wasn't. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 02, 2015, 06:25:10 PM
I see that the NCAA has put #1 Thomas More and #2 St. Thomas both in Hope's quadrant . . . but, fortunately for Calvin, on the opposite side from them.  But Calvin has George Fox (likewise undefeated) in its quadrant.  Ergo, both schools (especially Hope)  have a very tough road to make it to Van Noord.

The first weekend looks challenging, but a bit less intimidating.  With the top three teams in their quarterfinal brackets, the potentially biggest challenges would come the next weekend, should they survive next weekend.  Hope, for example, would potentially have to defeat both the #2 and #1 teams to get to a Final Four . . . I'd say not likely this year, but anything is possible.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on March 03, 2015, 12:18:01 PM
Calvin senior, Breanna Verkaik,named MIAA MVP. Kayla Engelhard was also first team all conference.

http://www.miaa.org/landing/index

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on March 03, 2015, 03:50:10 PM
Quote from: almcguirejr on March 03, 2015, 12:18:01 PM
Calvin senior, Breanna Verkaik,named MIAA MVP. Kayla Engelhard was also first team all conference.

http://www.miaa.org/landing/index
Well deserved for both.  It has been and still is a pleasure watching them play this year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 04, 2015, 02:56:13 PM
If all the favorites (according to Massey) win, calvin will play these teams, with this chance of winning (assuming the middle two games are at DePauw):

Baldwin Wallace (94%)
Oshkosh (80%)
DePauw (75%)
George Fox (38%)
Montclair St (81%)
St Thomas (66%)

That gives Calvin a 75% chance of getting to the sweet 16, 21% chance of getting to the final four, and 11% chance of winning a national championship.

Hope would face

Bethel (76%)
Wheaton (27%)
St Thomas (25%)
Thomas More (33%)
Tufts (37%)
Geo Fox (21%)

Assuming games are away or at neutral sites, that gives Hope a 21% chance of getting to the sweet 16, 2% chance of getting to the final 4, and 0.1% chance of a national championship.  (Hope has tougher games to play, and it doesn't have the benefit of four home games.)

There is a 0.1% chance of Hope-Calvin IV this season.

If there are upsets not involving Calvin or Hope, that would increase Calvin or Hope's chances, according to Massey.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on March 04, 2015, 02:59:44 PM
So you're saying there's a chance....
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 04, 2015, 03:31:33 PM
DK, IF the second weekend games are at DePauw, I'm astounded (and dubious) that Calvin would be that strongly favored over the host team.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on March 04, 2015, 03:39:00 PM
Also, if Calvin and DePauw are in the Sweet 16 I don't think it will be at DePauw.  I think Calvin will host over them due to where they presumably finished in the regional rankings.

I also think the committee is going to have some hard discussions on what to do with this grouping with George Fox wins.  They will be looking at 2 flights to a midwest school (Calvin and DePauw pod winners) or 3 flights to George Fox.  George fox appears to be the #1 seed and would deserve to host with their record and SOS over Calvin but it could get interesting.

With that said there's still a lot of basketball to be played this weekend before we move on to anything else.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 04, 2015, 04:25:23 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 04, 2015, 03:31:33 PM
DK, IF the second weekend games are at DePauw, I'm astounded (and dubious) that Calvin would be that strongly favored over the host team.

I checked Massey as well.  DK has it right, win probability for Calvin at DePauw is 75%.  If Calvin hosts that game, Calvin win probability goes to 84%.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 04, 2015, 05:04:35 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 04, 2015, 04:25:23 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 04, 2015, 03:31:33 PM
DK, IF the second weekend games are at DePauw, I'm astounded (and dubious) that Calvin would be that strongly favored over the host team.

I checked Massey as well.  DK has it right, win probability for Calvin at DePauw is 75%.  If Calvin hosts that game, Calvin win probability goes to 84%.

Oh, I wasn't dubious about DK's reporting - just of Massey's odds.  I'm dubious of ANY d3 team being a 75% favorite over DePauw in Greencastle - and that's for any team (DePauw or otherwise) in the last decade!  IWU faces them annually (an early season tourney of DePauw, IWU, WashU, and a 'victim to be named' ;)) - they are ALWAYS tough.

(I wonder if we could get Hope or Calvin as a regular in place of 'victim to be named'?  IWU was WAY down this year, but there have been years where such a tourney would be ALL top ten teams in the preseason poll!)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 04, 2015, 06:42:10 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 04, 2015, 05:04:35 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 04, 2015, 04:25:23 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 04, 2015, 03:31:33 PM
DK, IF the second weekend games are at DePauw, I'm astounded (and dubious) that Calvin would be that strongly favored over the host team.

I checked Massey as well.  DK has it right, win probability for Calvin at DePauw is 75%.  If Calvin hosts that game, Calvin win probability goes to 84%.

Oh, I wasn't dubious about DK's reporting - just of Massey's odds.  I'm dubious of ANY d3 team being a 75% favorite over DePauw in Greencastle - and that's for any team (DePauw or otherwise) in the last decade!  IWU faces them annually (an early season tourney of DePauw, IWU, WashU, and a 'victim to be named' ;)) - they are ALWAYS tough.

(I wonder if we could get Hope or Calvin as a regular in place of 'victim to be named'?  IWU was WAY down this year, but there have been years where such a tourney would be ALL top ten teams in the preseason poll!)

OK, I understand.  I've always felt Massey was amazingly accurate.... considering all the obvious limitations of a purely statistical approach when dealing with teams comprised of young folks and coached by humans :)

But given DePauw's performance in recent years, I fully understand your skepticism about the probabilities of a game with Calvin.  I haven't seen DePauw this year so all I can say is Calvin is very good and I hope we get to see this game occur, then we can revisit whether Massey was close or not.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: DBQ1965 on March 04, 2015, 08:20:18 PM
I also posted this on the men's side.

If the Calvin women win the first two rounds, is it likely the NCAA puts them on the road for one of the Regionals to reduce the chances of Calvin hosting all rounds?  And does that mean if the Calvin men get through the first two rounds, they have a good shot at hosting one of the men's Regionals?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 04, 2015, 08:45:50 PM
Quote from: DBQ1965 on March 04, 2015, 08:20:18 PM
I also posted this on the men's side.

If the Calvin women win the first two rounds, is it likely the NCAA puts them on the road for one of the Regionals to reduce the chances of Calvin hosting all rounds?  And does that mean if the Calvin men get through the first two rounds, they have a good shot at hosting one of the men's Regionals?

I answered you on the men's page.  In 2010, the IWU women could have hosted all six games, but lost at home to UWSP before the FF, so there IS precedent for not avoiding the possibility of all home games.  (Whether or not enough other coaches, etc., protested that possibility for IWU and the 'rule' has now changed, I don't know.)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on March 04, 2015, 10:55:10 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 04, 2015, 08:45:50 PM
Quote from: DBQ1965 on March 04, 2015, 08:20:18 PM
I also posted this on the men's side.

If the Calvin women win the first two rounds, is it likely the NCAA puts them on the road for one of the Regionals to reduce the chances of Calvin hosting all rounds?  And does that mean if the Calvin men get through the first two rounds, they have a good shot at hosting one of the men's Regionals?

I answered you on the men's page.  In 2010, the IWU women could have hosted all six games, but lost at home to UWSP before the FF, so there IS precedent for not avoiding the possibility of all home games.  (Whether or not enough other coaches, etc., protested that possibility for IWU and the 'rule' has now changed, I don't know.)

Dave McHugh spoke with the women's national committee chair Monday afternoon after the selection show and they discussed this specific question.  The chair said that there is no rule and in his personal opinion if Calvin is the most deserving of the 4 schools left in that part of the bracket then they would host again.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: DBQ1965 on March 05, 2015, 05:50:03 AM
Thanks.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 06, 2015, 08:29:58 AM
Happy to be headed for Wheaton later today to watch the Dutch play.  I did a quick Hope v Bethel statistical comparison:


Offense     % 2pt   % 3pt      % FT
Hope     42.7   32.7      64
Bethel     43.7   28.5      65.6
            
Defense     % 2pt   % 3pt     
Hope     35.6   27.9     
Bethel     35.3   27.8     
            
Rebounding     Team   Opp      Margin
Hope     43.8   42.4      1.4
Bethel     43.3   38.9      4.4
            
Scoring     Team   Opp      Margin
Hope     70.7   55.4      15.3
Bethel     68   56.9      11.1
            
3 point shooting     Attempts   Made      Made/game
Hope     548   179      6.6
Bethel     383   109      4
            
Blocks     Total   per game     
Hope     123   4.6     
Bethel     248   9.2     
            
Steals     Total   per game     
Hope     345   12.8     
Bethel     261   9.7     
            
Turnovers     Total    per game     
Hope     438   16.2     
Bethel     427   15.8     
            
Assists     Total   per game     
Hope     431   16     
Bethel     350   13     
            
Assist/Turnover             
Hope     0.98        
Bethel     0.82        
            

Bethel doesn't have a lot of size, the starting lineup is 6'2", 5'9", 5'4", 5'7", 5'9".  However they block 9 shots a game, with half of those coming from 6'2" Rachel Parupsky.  She and 5'9" Kalli Zimmermann average 15.5 and 14.0 points per game respectively. 

Bethel plays 8 players for the most part, with 3 reserves (5'11", 5'8", 5'9") playing 11 - 20 min per game.  Starters account for 77% of the points, and 66% of the minutes.

Hope plays 9 players for the most part, with 4 reserves playing 11- 17 minutes per game.  Starters account for 66% of the scoring, and 62% of the minutes.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 06, 2015, 08:37:10 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 06, 2015, 08:29:58 AM
Happy to be headed for Wheaton later today to watch the Dutch play.  I did a quick Hope v Bethel statistical comparison:


Offense     % 2pt   % 3pt      % FT
Hope     42.7   32.7      64
Bethel     43.7   28.5      65.6
            
Defense     % 2pt   % 3pt     
Hope     35.6   27.9     
Bethel     35.3   27.8     
            
Rebounding     Team   Opp      Margin
Hope     43.8   42.4      1.4
Bethel     43.3   38.9      4.4
            
Scoring     Team   Opp      Margin
Hope     70.7   55.4      15.3
Bethel     68   56.9      11.1
            
3 point shooting     Attempts   Made      Made/game
Hope     548   179      6.6
Bethel     383   109      4
            
Blocks     Total   per game     
Hope     123   4.6     
Bethel     248   9.2     
            
Steals     Total   per game     
Hope     345   12.8     
Bethel     261   9.7     
            
Turnovers     Total    per game     
Hope     438   16.2     
Bethel     427   15.8     
            
Assists     Total   per game     
Hope     431   16     
Bethel     350   13     
            
Assist/Turnover             
Hope     0.98        
Bethel     0.82        
            

Bethel doesn't have a lot of size, the starting lineup is 6'2", 5'9", 5'4", 5'7", 5'9".  However they block 9 shots a game, with half of those coming from 6'2" Rachel Parupsky.  She and 5'9" Kalli Zimmermann average 15.5 and 14.0 points per game respectively. 

Bethel plays 8 players for the most part, with 3 reserves (5'11", 5'8", 5'9") playing 11 - 20 min per game.  Starters account for 77% of the points, and 66% of the minutes.

Hope plays 9 players for the most part, with 4 reserves playing 11- 17 minutes per game.  Starters account for 66% of the scoring, and 62% of the minutes.

Interesting, thanks for the analysis.  On paper seems to be an even matchup, but you never know until they get out on the court.  Massey predicts Hope by 67-59 with Hope having a 77% win probability.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 06, 2015, 06:46:42 PM
Half time in Wheaton, Hope 38 Bethel 30.  McAfee with 12 and Madison with 9 to lead the Dutch.  Tight game early, then Hope finished strong the last 5-6 minutes, aided a bit by Bethels one big picking up her 2nd foul.

Anderson went down hard earl, had ice on her wrist, but did return for a few more minutes.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 06, 2015, 07:52:56 PM
Hope wins 75-63.  McAfee with 22 and 10, Llorens with 18 and 10 proved to be too much inside for Bethel.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: calvin_grad on March 06, 2015, 08:35:51 PM
Calvin led 40-24 at halftime over BW, but BW scored the first 17 points of the second half.  :o :o
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: calvin_grad on March 06, 2015, 09:10:16 PM
Calvin stems the tide and wins 80-66 with 4 players in double figures. Outscored B-W 33-17 over the last 10 minutes and change. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on March 06, 2015, 09:11:19 PM
Calvin regroups and wins 80-66.  That was close there for a minute.  You certainly don't want to lose to 8th-seeded Baldwin-Wallace in the first round! ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: OC_SID on March 06, 2015, 10:02:08 PM
Quote from: northb on March 06, 2015, 09:11:19 PM
Calvin regroups and wins 80-66.  That was close there for a minute.  You certainly don't want to lose to 8th-seeded Baldwin-Wallace in the first round! ;)

Quote from: calvin_grad on March 06, 2015, 09:10:16 PM
Calvin stems the tide and wins 80-66 with 4 players in double figures. Outscored B-W 33-17 over the last 10 minutes and change.

Just an FYI: It is now BW or Baldwin Wallace ... BW dropped the hyphen when they switched from a college to a university a few years ago. I know this silly thing since I am a BW graduate, or am I a B-W graduate since it was B-W when I attended Baldwin-Wallace?  ???
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 06, 2015, 10:15:35 PM
And down goes Wheaton in OT. Tremendous game, but WLC is going to be exhausted. Their star player played 43 minutes.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Captain_Joe08 on March 07, 2015, 12:18:10 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 06, 2015, 10:15:35 PM
And down goes Wheaton in OT. Tremendous game, but WLC is going to be exhausted. Their star player played 43 minutes.

Though I won't count them out. This is nearly the same team that pushed Hope twice last year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 07, 2015, 12:34:41 AM
Quote from: Captain_Joe08 on March 07, 2015, 12:18:10 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 06, 2015, 10:15:35 PM
And down goes Wheaton in OT. Tremendous game, but WLC is going to be exhausted. Their star player played 43 minutes.

Though I won't count them out. This is nearly the same team that pushed Hope twice last year.

Definitely not counting them out - just pointing out that the stress and extended minutes of a tough overtime game could pose an issue. Looking forward to a great game tomorrow night.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on March 07, 2015, 08:30:07 AM
CONGRATULATIONS HOPE LADIES!!  GOOD LUCK TONIGHT!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Captain_Joe08 on March 07, 2015, 10:30:28 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 07, 2015, 12:34:41 AM
Quote from: Captain_Joe08 on March 07, 2015, 12:18:10 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 06, 2015, 10:15:35 PM
And down goes Wheaton in OT. Tremendous game, but WLC is going to be exhausted. Their star player played 43 minutes.

Though I won't count them out. This is nearly the same team that pushed Hope twice last year.

Definitely not counting them out - just pointing out that the stress and extended minutes of a tough overtime game could pose an issue. Looking forward to a great game tomorrow night.

This is the first time I think Schulz has been used pretty much the whole game. I think she has been used 25-32 minutes a game this year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 07, 2015, 11:02:16 AM
Quote from: Captain_Joe08 on March 07, 2015, 10:30:28 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 07, 2015, 12:34:41 AM
Quote from: Captain_Joe08 on March 07, 2015, 12:18:10 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 06, 2015, 10:15:35 PM
And down goes Wheaton in OT. Tremendous game, but WLC is going to be exhausted. Their star player played 43 minutes.

Though I won't count them out. This is nearly the same team that pushed Hope twice last year.

Definitely not counting them out - just pointing out that the stress and extended minutes of a tough overtime game could pose an issue. Looking forward to a great game tomorrow night.

This is the first time I think Schulz has been used pretty much the whole game. I think she has been used 25-32 minutes a game this year.

Actually she is averaging 34.1 min per game for the season - which probably means the extra minutes last night should be less of an impact on her than if she was averaging 25.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 07, 2015, 11:07:56 AM
Quick team stat comparison between Hope and WLC



Offense     % 2pt   % 3pt      % FT
Hope     43   32.7      64
WLC     51   44.5      67.6
            
Defense     % 2pt   % 3pt     
Hope     35.6   28.1     
WLC     33.3   31.3     
            
Rebounding     Team   Opp      Margin
Hope     43.8   42      1.8
WLC     42   34.4      7.6
            
Scoring     Team   Opp      Margin
Hope     70.8   55.6      15.2
WLC     74.8   55.4      19.4
            
3 point shooting     Attempts   Made      Made/game
Hope     560   183      6.5
WLC     409   182      4
            
Blocks     Total   per game     
Hope     126   4.5     
WLC     194   6.9     
            
Steals     Total   per game     
Hope     355   12.7     
WLC     199   7.1     
            
Turnovers     Total    per game     
Hope     454   16.2     
WLC     465   16.6     
            
Assists     Total   per game     
Hope     448   16     
WLC     478   17.1     
            
Assist/Turnover             
Hope     0.99        
WLC     1.03        
            

Teams met twice last year.  11/23/13 at WLC, Hope won 78-72 in OT.  Then they met in the first round of the NCAA tourney last year at Carthage and Hope won 60-54.  Looking at all that, you have to think this will be another hard fought, close game.  They certainly are familiar with each other.  Interesting that for the 2nd year in a row these teams meet in an NCAA tournament game, neutral site, at a CCIW school. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Captain_Joe08 on March 07, 2015, 11:10:57 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 07, 2015, 11:02:16 AM
Quote from: Captain_Joe08 on March 07, 2015, 10:30:28 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 07, 2015, 12:34:41 AM
Quote from: Captain_Joe08 on March 07, 2015, 12:18:10 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 06, 2015, 10:15:35 PM
And down goes Wheaton in OT. Tremendous game, but WLC is going to be exhausted. Their star player played 43 minutes.

Though I won't count them out. This is nearly the same team that pushed Hope twice last year.

Definitely not counting them out - just pointing out that the stress and extended minutes of a tough overtime game could pose an issue. Looking forward to a great game tomorrow night.

This is the first time I think Schulz has been used pretty much the whole game. I think she has been used 25-32 minutes a game this year.

Actually she is averaging 34.1 min per game for the season - which probably means the extra minutes last night should be less of an impact on her than if she was averaging 25.

I figured about that....That is the product of the NACC with the exception of a few teams on any given night.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 07, 2015, 11:17:35 AM
Quote from: calvin_grad on March 06, 2015, 08:35:51 PM
Calvin led 40-24 at halftime over BW, but BW scored the first 17 points of the second half.  :o :o

Strange game last knight. Calvin started out on a 12-0 run, BW had a 12-2 run, and Calvin had another 12-0 run in the first half. At the end of the first half it felt like Calvin might run away with the game.

BW started out the second half with a 17-0 run in which Calvin could not buy a basket. In that stretch Calvin missed 11 shots including 6 layups. Very physical defense was being allowed.

In the last 10 minutes, Calvin outscored BW 33-15. 14 of those points for Calvin were free throws and many of the rest were layups. I guess the refs started calling more and BW started taking more risks.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Captain_Joe08 on March 07, 2015, 11:18:23 AM
Last night's win for WLC ended a string of close losses against top competition for the Warriors. Like you said, we lost to you guys twice last year in close games. We nearly beat DePauw and George Fox to start the season this year. Feels nice to break through.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 07, 2015, 11:39:23 AM
If all the remaining favorites win these are the teams Calvin would have to beat for a national championship (assuming all games are at Calvin):

[Baldwin Wallace (80-66)]
Oshkosh (80%)
DePauw (82%)
George Fox (46%)
Montclair St (80%)
St Thomas (53%)

That gives Calvin an 80% chance of reaching the sweet 16, 30% chance of the final four, 13% chance of national championship.

Hope would face

[Bethel 75-63]
WI Lutheran (79%)
St Thomas (26%)
Thomas More (32%)
Tufts (37%)
Geo Fox (21%)

Previously Hope had to face five of the top 7 teams. Wheaton lost last night giving Hope a boost.
That gives Hope a 79% chance of getting to the sweet 16, 7% chance of getting to the final 4, and 0.5% chance of a national championship.

The chance for Hope-Calvin IV is up to 0.6%.  :o
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on March 07, 2015, 12:54:36 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on March 07, 2015, 11:39:23 AM

Previously Hope had to face five of the top 7 teams. Wheaton lost last night giving Hope a boost.

Is that a boost?  Now they have to play a team that beat one of the top 7 teams.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 07, 2015, 01:16:48 PM
Quote from: northb on March 07, 2015, 12:54:36 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on March 07, 2015, 11:39:23 AM

Previously Hope had to face five of the top 7 teams. Wheaton lost last night giving Hope a boost.

Is that a boost?  Now they have to play a team that beat one of the top 7 teams.

Don't know if its a boost or not, but I do like not having to play a strong Wheaton team on its home court.  But WLC is playing really well right now and Kristen Schulz presents a huge challenge.  Massey has Hope by 9 with a 79% win probability.  Massey pretty much nailed the Bethel prediction, but WLC appears to be a stronger team to me so I think Massey is overly optimistic on this one.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on March 07, 2015, 09:16:28 PM
Does anyone know why Paris Madison is not in the rotation this evening?  She has played well recently and based on the box score was a strong contributor against Bethel.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on March 07, 2015, 09:24:29 PM
Impressive showing by Calvin and Hope this week.  MIAA looks strong.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 07, 2015, 09:47:06 PM
Huge win by Hope over what looked to be a very tired WLC team. I think the sub patterns tonight (Madison and Klauka playin little) was a matchup decision by the coach.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Captain_Joe08 on March 07, 2015, 10:21:37 PM
You hit on the tired part. WLC could not get out of a 22-5 hole early on. Great season for the Warriors.

On a humorous note.....

The day after the state of Wisconsin ended the CCIW's season, the MIAA ended the state of Wisconsin's hopes for a d3 title.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 07, 2015, 10:55:24 PM
Had to make a choice tonight--stay home and watch the men's team on the computer or go and watch the women live at VNA. Chose to watch live action and found I made the right decision. Calvin's women improve to 29-0 with a convincing 91-71 win over UW-Oshkosh and move on for a date with DePauw, place TBD. The Lady Knights are relentless. They simply don't let an opponent take a breath with a frenetic style that wears out their opponent as much mentally as physically. John Ross's ladies use the full 94 feet every second of the game and you had better strap on your seatbelts. Oshkosh is a pretty good team who didn't turn the ball over all that much given the constant ball pressure they faced (16 turnovers) but what Calvin's style does to you is force a tempo that you probably don't want, shots taken that aren't the ones you want, and the shortening of the shot clock because it takes so long to get into your half court offense. Meanwhile, Calvin's offense enjoys running up the court to take a shot early in the clock if they get it. The one quality they have in spades is excellent passing skills whether from their perimeter players or with interior passing. Other game notes:

--simply a superlative performance by Kayla Englehard with 28 points on 11-15 from the floor and her usual composed floor game, dishing 9 assists. When she plays like that, Calvin is a very difficult team to beat.

--Breanna Verkaik was her usual steady self going 7-11 from the floor, 18 points, 4 assists and 5 rebounds. She's so good you think a game like that is ordinary. It isn't.

--Anna Timmer is one of the best off-the-bench players I've seen at the D3 level, and she does it without being superior at anything. She's just fundamentally sound at every part of the game and is a mentally tough kid. Undersized for the college game she dominated inside with 16 points and 9 rebounds, and grabbed 3 steals. Just a pleasure to watch her play.

--nice to see the prez down on the floor at the end of the game, offering sincere congratulations.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 07, 2015, 11:27:57 PM
Very strong game by the Hope Flying Dutch tonight.  Stifling defense resulted in several five second violations and hurried shots as the shot clock wound down.  WLC star Kristen Schulz was prevented from doing much damage when she couldn't get touches near the basket, only scoring two points on three shots in the first half.  Meanwhile it seemed the Dutch had a very good offensive game plan that resulted in numerous open looks outside and many layups off of screens and cuts to the hole.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 08, 2015, 07:46:10 AM
Congratulations to both the Calvin Lady Knights and the Hope Flying Dutch for making it to the Sweet 16.  Not only did they win, but they both won convincingly.  Great job representing the MIAA, whose women's teams seemed to really step it up across the board this year.  Keep it going!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 08, 2015, 11:46:10 AM
With strong results both teams gained a little Massey power. Here are the remaining games for Calvin (assuming faves win, all games are at home):

DePauw (84%)
George Fox (51%)
Montclair St (85%)
St Thomas (63%)

That gives Calvin a 43% chance of the final four, 23% chance of national championship.

Hope would face

St Thomas (35%)
Thomas More (35%)
Tufts (46%)
George Fox (24%)

Now Massey says there is a 12% chance of getting to the final four and 1.3% chance of a national championship--quite a jump.

The chance for Hope-Calvin IV in the national finals is up to 2%.  :o :o

[Edit: Hope numbers corrected: see comment below. Not quite as impressive a jump for Hope.]
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 08, 2015, 12:34:50 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on March 08, 2015, 11:46:10 AM
With strong results both teams gained a little Massey power. Here are the remaining games for Calvin (assuming faves win, all games are at home):

DePauw (84%)
George Fox (51%)
Montclair St (85%)
St Thomas (63%)

That gives Calvin a 43% chance of the final four, 23% chance of national championship.

Hope would face

St Thomas (55%)
Thomas More (54%)
Tufts (66%)
George Fox (42%)

Now Massey says there is a 30% chance of getting to the final four and 8% chance of a national championship--quite a jump.

The chance for Hope-Calvin IV in the national finals is up to 7%.  :o :o


I'm not getting the same probabilities for Hope on the Massey matchups.  For instance I'm seeing 35% win probability vs. St Thomas (neutral court) or 43% if Hope were to host.  Am I doing something wrong?

I realize Hope has the worst record of the remaining four teams (Thomas More, St Thomas, WashU) in its bracket for next weekend, is there any chance at all the Dutch would host?  I know travel miles and expenses, venue, revenue expectations and the like come in to play as well as merit and regional ranking but I don't fully understand the details.   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 08, 2015, 12:49:14 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 08, 2015, 12:34:50 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on March 08, 2015, 11:46:10 AM
With strong results both teams gained a little Massey power. Here are the remaining games for Calvin (assuming faves win, all games are at home):

DePauw (84%)
George Fox (51%)
Montclair St (85%)
St Thomas (63%)

That gives Calvin a 43% chance of the final four, 23% chance of national championship.

Hope would face

St Thomas (55%)
Thomas More (54%)
Tufts (66%)
George Fox (42%)

Now Massey says there is a 30% chance of getting to the final four and 8% chance of a national championship--quite a jump.

The chance for Hope-Calvin IV in the national finals is up to 7%.  :o :o


I'm not getting the same probabilities for Hope on the Massey matchups.  For instance I'm seeing 35% win probability vs. St Thomas (neutral court) or 43% if Hope were to host.  Am I doing something wrong?

I realize Hope has the worst record of the remaining four teams (Thomas More, St Thomas, WashU) in its bracket for next weekend, is there any chance at all the Dutch would host?  I know travel miles and expenses, venue, revenue expectations and the like come in to play as well as merit and regional ranking but I don't fully understand the details.
I'd wager Thomas More will host, Roundball999.  St. Thomas is more than 500 miles from the other three schools, which are a drive away from each other (so surely it won't be St. Thomas).  Thomas More is likely top seed, and has good local support.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on March 08, 2015, 12:55:49 PM
Just announced that Calvin is hosting next weekend.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: BruinFan on March 08, 2015, 01:06:07 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on March 08, 2015, 12:55:49 PM
Just announced that Calvin is hosting next weekend.

Where did you find the announcement? thanks
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 08, 2015, 01:15:13 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on March 08, 2015, 12:55:49 PM
Just announced that Calvin is hosting next weekend.

Looks like Montclair St. is hosting too.  The other two sites not yet identified on the bracket.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 08, 2015, 01:16:57 PM
Quote from: BruinFan on March 08, 2015, 01:06:07 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on March 08, 2015, 12:55:49 PM
Just announced that Calvin is hosting next weekend.

Where did you find the announcement? thanks

On the NCAA interactive bracket.  Click on one of the upcoming games and it will show the site or TBD.  Thomas More is now showing as the third site, and Tufts as the last site.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on March 08, 2015, 02:37:22 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on March 08, 2015, 12:55:49 PM
Just announced that Calvin is hosting next weekend.
They certainly deserve it!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 08, 2015, 04:58:26 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 08, 2015, 01:16:57 PM
Quote from: BruinFan on March 08, 2015, 01:06:07 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on March 08, 2015, 12:55:49 PM
Just announced that Calvin is hosting next weekend.

Where did you find the announcement? thanks

On the NCAA interactive bracket.  Click on one of the upcoming games and it will show the site or TBD.  Thomas More is now showing as the third site, and Tufts as the last site.

Or on D3hoops.com who had it before that website could get theirs updated ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 08, 2015, 05:22:46 PM
Oshkosh is a defense-minded team, and the largest number of points they gave up in a regular-season game this season was 71, to Wisconsin-Stout. They gave up 82 to North Central, a team that plays "the system." They didn't have an answer for Calvin's many offensive threats, though.

91 points is the most Oshkosh has given up since 2008, to D-II St. Cloud.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: DBQ1965 on March 08, 2015, 07:09:27 PM
Officiating Saturday night between Calvin and Oshkosh was by a D-II crew, who let the women play aggressive basketball.   When there was a non-call foul by Oshkosh, Calvin fans were adamant in expressing their displeasure with the officials.  When there was non-call foul by Calvin, you could have heard the proverbial "pin drop".  What does that bode for Van Noord for the next two weekends?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 08, 2015, 07:21:32 PM
Quote from: DBQ1965 on March 08, 2015, 07:09:27 PM
Officiating Saturday night between Calvin and Oshkosh was by a D-II crew, who let the women play aggressive basketball.   When there was a non-call foul by Oshkosh, Calvin fans were adamant in expressing their displeasure with the officials.  When there was non-call foul by Calvin, you could have heard the proverbial "pin drop".  What does that bode for Van Noord for the next two weekends?

Sounds like pretty typical home court advantage stuff.  Best way to counter is a large contingent of fans from the visiting teams.  Admittedly tough to do for UTD and George Fox.  One of the unique challenges of the DIII tournament, big home court advantages for some teams.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: BruinFan on March 08, 2015, 07:42:33 PM
Quote from: oldknight on March 07, 2015, 10:55:24 PM
The Lady Knights are relentless. They simply don't let an opponent take a breath with a frenetic style that wears out their opponent as much mentally as physically. John Ross's ladies use the full 94 feet every second of the game and you had better strap on your seatbelts. Oshkosh is a pretty good team who didn't turn the ball over all that much given the constant ball pressure they faced (16 turnovers) but what Calvin's style does to you is force a tempo that you probably don't want, shots taken that aren't the ones you want, and the shortening of the shot clock because it takes so long to get into your half court offense.


This description sounds a lot like George Fox this year. There are some more recent posts about officiating. With both of these teams being very aggressive, they will have to be ready to adjust depending on the approach taken by the officials.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 08, 2015, 07:48:40 PM
Quote from: DBQ1965 on March 08, 2015, 07:09:27 PM
Officiating Saturday night between Calvin and Oshkosh was by a D-II crew, who let the women play aggressive basketball.   When there was a non-call foul by Oshkosh, Calvin fans were adamant in expressing their displeasure with the officials.  When there was non-call foul by Calvin, you could have heard the proverbial "pin drop".  What does that bode for Van Noord for the next two weekends?

Four more Calvin wins D.V.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on March 09, 2015, 11:10:56 AM
Dave McHugh had Brian Morehouse on last night.  Morehouse spends some time talking about his own team and quite a bit of time talking about Calvin's team also. Morehouse comes on at 41:45.

http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2014-15/mar8

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 09, 2015, 11:28:25 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 08, 2015, 01:15:13 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on March 08, 2015, 12:55:49 PM
Just announced that Calvin is hosting next weekend.

Looks like Montclair St. is hosting too.  The other two sites not yet identified on the bracket.

These are good things to follow D3hoops.com on Twitter, or read the front page of the site to learn.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on March 09, 2015, 01:12:00 PM
Thanks for the link.  Great Morehouse interview.  You had to laugh (or cry) about his comments about losing to Calvin three times.  Very honest and heartful hurt.  Probably the same emotions Ross would have if in the same position.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 09, 2015, 04:05:18 PM
Great piece done by TV 8 on Brittany Berry - very inspiring!

http://woodtv.com/2015/03/09/overcoming-obstacles-for-record-setting-career/

Pat - might be worthy of some "front page" press

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on March 09, 2015, 07:01:48 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 09, 2015, 04:05:18 PM
Great piece done by TV 8 on Brittany Berry - very inspiring!

http://woodtv.com/2015/03/09/overcoming-obstacles-for-record-setting-career/

Pat - might be worthy of some "front page" press

Thanks for the link, great story.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 09, 2015, 07:55:26 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on March 08, 2015, 11:46:10 AM
With strong results both teams gained a little Massey power. Here are the remaining games for Calvin (assuming faves win, all games are at home):

DePauw (84%)
George Fox (51%)
Montclair St (85%)
St Thomas (63%)

That gives Calvin a 43% chance of the final four, 23% chance of national championship.

Hope would face

St Thomas (35%)
Thomas More (35%)
Tufts (46%)
George Fox (24%)

Now Massey says there is a 12% chance of getting to the final four and 1.3% chance of a national championship--quite a jump.

The chance for Hope-Calvin IV in the national finals is up to 2%.  :o :o

[Edit: Hope numbers corrected: see comment below. Not quite as impressive a jump for Hope.]

Looks like Massey entered some new data, Hope has jumped to #7 in their ratings and probabilities have changed.  It's now:

St Thomas (42%)
Thomas More (36%)
Tufts (53%)
George Fox (27%)

meaning Hope at 15% for Final Four and 2.2% for championship.  Splitting hairs but going in the right direction :)

Massey has St. Thomas as a 3 point favorite over Hope Friday and Calvin now as a 10 point favorite with an 84% win probability over DePauw.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on March 10, 2015, 08:41:41 AM
John Ross interview with a Depauw radio station:

http://www.parkerschwartz.com/?page_id=25
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 10, 2015, 12:49:10 PM
Hope v St Thomas statistical comparison


Offense     % 2pt   % 3pt      % FT
Hope     43.2   33.1      64.5
St Thomas     53.9   34.6      74
            
Defense     % 2pt   % 3pt     
Hope     35.8   28.5     
St Thomas     37.3   27.7     
            
Rebounding     Team   Opp      Margin
Hope     43.2   41.6      1.6
St Thomas     38.7   27.6      11.1
            
Scoring     Team   Opp      Margin
Hope     70.9   55.3      15.6
St Thomas     69.9   47.7      22.2
            
3 point shooting     Attempts   Made      Made/game
Hope     580   192      6.6
St Thomas     530   173      6
            
Blocks     Total   per game     
Hope     131   4.5     
St Thomas     102   3.5     
            
Steals     Total   per game     
Hope     361   12.4     
St Thomas     234   8.1     
            
Turnovers     Total    per game     
Hope     466   16.1     
St Thomas     406   14     
            
Assists     Total   per game     
Hope     470   16.2     
St Thomas     456   15.7     
            
Assist/Turnover             
Hope     1.01        
St Thomas     1.12        
            
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on March 13, 2015, 08:36:05 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 09, 2015, 07:55:26 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on March 08, 2015, 11:46:10 AM
With strong results both teams gained a little Massey power. Here are the remaining games for Calvin (assuming faves win, all games are at home):

DePauw (84%)
George Fox (51%)
Montclair St (85%)
St Thomas (63%)

That gives Calvin a 43% chance of the final four, 23% chance of national championship.

Hope would face

St Thomas (35%)
Thomas More (35%)
Tufts (46%)
George Fox (24%)

Now Massey says there is a 12% chance of getting to the final four and 1.3% chance of a national championship--quite a jump.

The chance for Hope-Calvin IV in the national finals is up to 2%. :o :o

[Edit: Hope numbers corrected: see comment below. Not quite as impressive a jump for Hope.]

Looks like Massey entered some new data, Hope has jumped to #7 in their ratings and probabilities have changed.  It's now:

St Thomas (42%)
Thomas More (36%)
Tufts (53%)
George Fox (27%)

meaning Hope at 15% for Final Four and 2.2% for championship.  Splitting hairs but going in the right direction :)

Massey has St. Thomas as a 3 point favorite over Hope Friday and Calvin now as a 10 point favorite with an 84% win probability over DePauw.
Chances of Hope Calvin IV drop to 0.00% as Hope loses to St. Thomas 47-55.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on March 14, 2015, 08:17:57 AM
Greencastle Banner-Graphic article:

http://www.bannergraphic.com/story/2175541.html
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 14, 2015, 09:10:39 AM
With no major upsets so far, all the top 8 seeds of the tournament are in still there for this round. Now it gets really interesting. Two meetings of unbeaten teams and a total of 5 losses among the 8 remaining teams.

Apparently, Calvin and George Fox play a similar style of basketball, although GFU seems to steal the ball during half-court defense more than Calvin does. GFU's turnover margin is 2 better than Calvin's, but Calvin shoots three pointers slightly better, at 34.9% compared to 32.7%. Calvin's overall field goal percentage is also slightly higher, at 45.4 vs. 43.7. Calvin passes more, with 21.1 assists per game to GFU's 13.9.

George Fox has 8 players averaging 10+ minutes per game, with the starters averaging 23.8. Calvin has 9 players averaging 10+ minutes, with the starter averaging 22.0. Last night GFU's starters averaged 25.8 minutes to Calvins' 29.6.

George Fox has a post player averaging 12 points and 11 rebounds per game. Might that be a problem for the knights, who don't have as much height in the post? On the other hand, she played 38 minutes last night and could be tired.

Massey now has Calvin as a 1.6 point favorite, with a 56% chance of winning.

Its essentially a tossup. Should be quite a game!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 14, 2015, 09:37:38 AM
It's pretty special to have Calvin host Round of 16 and quarterfinal games, giving us the opportunity to see good teams from around the country we don't normally see. The UTD vs George Fox matchup was an interesting warmup with each team having opportunities to come away with a win. In the end George Fox's superior depth and ball pressure forced key turnovers down the stretch and that was the difference maker. I was impressed with UTD's fan support as the team from Texas turned out a very nice fan base to add some energy to the arena. It was nice of UTD to bring along sunshine and warm weather to Michigan.

The nightcap was the type of game I expected. DePauw has a solid, well-disciplined club that learned—over the course of 40 minutes of play—how to be patient and attack how Calvin defends. As the game progressed the visitors from the Hoosier state began to take advantage of defensive breakdowns and overplays by Lady Knights defenders. Douglas and Trees are terrific perimeter players who really know how to take on a one-on-one defender with dribble penetration, and down the stretch scored several big baskets late in the shot clock. As a team, the Tigers made only one second half turnover and that's amazing given Calvin's constant ball pressure.

However, the value of playing a 94 foot game isn't entirely premised on generating turnovers. On most possessions DePauw was simply unable to set up their offense until they only had 15 seconds left on the shot clock meaning that any failure of execution in the half court left the visitors with a poor scoring opportunity late in the shot clock and that, as much as anything explains DePauw's poor shooting (34%). Calvin simply shot the ball better, especially from the arc, and that was the biggest difference in the two teams. DePauw was playing from behind pretty much the whole game, and I thought some fatigue showed in the final minutes when they came up empty on several critical possessions after cutting the Calvin lead to six points. Every DePauw starter logged at least 31 minutes while John Ross, as usual, ran in waves of defenders throughout.

Tonight's final presents an interesting challenge for the Lady Knights. Like Calvin, George Fox tends to pressure the ball a lot, in both the full court and the half court, and to force the ball handler to pick up her dribble by utilizing double teams. I've never seen the Bruins play before and knew nothing about them coming in but I had that sneaking suspicion last night that they underperformed in the game against UTD. That concerns me going into tonight. Like Calvin, GF plays a lot of players but they aren't as big as expected and got seriously outboarded by UTD who often beat George Fox to the ball. Calvin's inside game may have an opportunity here and may have to play well in order to advance. Other game notes:

--DePauw did a terrific job on Breanna Verkaik who had few good opportunities to score. But the senior from Holland showed her mettle by never appearing frustrated and contributed in other ways, particularly by distributing the ball. She was credited with 4 assists, a number that seems low to me.

--A second straight All-Star performance by point guard Kayla Englehard who had an impressive double/double with 23 points and a game high 11 rebounds. It's hard to overstate her contribution to last night's win and her physical strength was something DePauw simply couldn't match.

--Frosh Bre Luurtsma is easily overlooked since she doesn't score much. I saw her play several times in high school and she's an extremely hard working young lady who is very athletic and runs the floor well. Her ability to guard multiple positions is very valuable and if she's assigned to you, you're going to get a workout.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: calvin_grad on March 14, 2015, 10:54:31 PM
George Fox's quickness, offensive rebounding, and ability to take Calvin out of anything they wanted to do offensively just too much to overcome tonight.  78-63 George Fox
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 14, 2015, 10:56:08 PM
Quote from: oldknight on March 14, 2015, 09:37:38 AM
Like Calvin, GF plays a lot of players but they aren't as big as expected and got seriously outboarded by UTD who often beat George Fox to the ball. Calvin's inside game may have an opportunity here and may have to play well in order to advance.

Well; that's the last time I take George Fox to task for their poor rebounding. The Bruins simply annihilated Calvin on the boards, 41-27, including 14 huge offensive rebounds, and that was the biggest difference between the two teams. Calvin did miss a lot of shots that were almost in the basket but the visitors are an excellent defensive team. I can see why GF only gave up 70 points twice this season as they are extremely good at cutting off passing lanes, rotate well and contest everything. Certainly a worthy Final Four participant. I'm just curious if they will stay in Grand Rapids this week. I don't see much point in having them fly to Portland Sunday and then fly back mid-week. Other game notes:

--Like Jordan Brink on the men's side, Breanna Verkaik ended her brilliant career with a loss and a less than satisfying final game performance. The senior never had an open look all night going 2-6 from the floor and scoring just 6 points. George Fox was well prepared to defend Verkaik's 3 point shooting ability and John Ross eventualy had to move Breanna to the post just to try and get her some looks at the basket. She was never in sync but that shouldn't overshadow a terrific career.

--Jami Morris was named MOP and was worthy of it, but to me Justine Benner was the key player for GF. She's an extremely capable player who knows how to play the post, and plays bigger than her listed size. 27 points and 8 boards is hard to overlook and Calvin couldn't guard her.

--Kayla Engelhard had a tough start to the game and certainly didn't play as well as she did her last two games, but her second half was excellent, scoring 14 points after the intermission and she played a better floor game. Her bulldog tenacity will be missed.

--Frosh Ali Spayde seems to be the person destined to take over at point next season for the Lady Knights. Based on what I've seen from her the last two weeks, she's ready for that role.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on March 14, 2015, 11:26:02 PM
QuoteJami Morris was named MOP...

I didn't know that there was a Most Outstanding Player named for each sectional. Is that new or has it always happened?

Congrats to the Knights on a great run. If anyone still plans on taking in the games this weekend, stop by and say hello. I'll be the bald, pale, goateed guy in a suit. I'm not expecting many of those.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on March 14, 2015, 11:39:05 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on March 14, 2015, 11:26:02 PM
QuoteJami Morris was named MOP...

I didn't know that there was a Most Outstanding Player named for each sectional. Is that new or has it always happened?

Congrats to the Knights on a great run. If anyone still plans on taking in the games this weekend, stop by and say hello. I'll be the bald, pale, goateed guy in a suit. I'm not expecting many of those.
I will definitely be there and I hope all the Calvin faithful will show up in good numbers.  Having a final four in your home town is just too special to pass up.

Congratulations to the Lady Knights and coach Ross for a spectacular season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 15, 2015, 12:02:48 AM
Quote from: gordonmann on March 14, 2015, 11:26:02 PM
QuoteJami Morris was named MOP...

I didn't know that there was a Most Outstanding Player named for each sectional. Is that new or has it always happened?

Congrats to the Knights on a great run. If anyone still plans on taking in the games this weekend, stop by and say hello. I'll be the bald, pale, goateed guy in a suit. I'm not expecting many of those.

After the game was completed they announced an All-Tournament team and Morris was awarded last. I'm struggling to remember how the announcer labeled it but it was MOP or MVP or some similar designation for Morris who got the loudest applause.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: BruinFan on March 15, 2015, 12:39:29 AM
Quote from: oldknight on March 14, 2015, 10:56:08 PM
Quote from: oldknight on March 14, 2015, 09:37:38 AM
I'm just curious if they will stay in Grand Rapids this week. I don't see much point in having them fly to Portland Sunday and then fly back mid-week. Other game notes:

Unofficially, I'm hearing that George Fox will stay in Michigan. Saves them two days of travel and makes some economic sense as well. It would be great if any Calvin fans could find it in their heart to attend Friday's game and root for the Bruins. It is tough to get much more than the player's family members and school officials to travel that distance.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 15, 2015, 06:51:20 PM
It's official... they are staying in Grand Rapids all week.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 16, 2015, 11:33:24 AM
Nice to see 4 representatives from the MIAA on the GL all region team.  Verkiak and Lang first team, McAfee 2nd team, and Englehart 3rd team.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on March 16, 2015, 12:11:22 PM
Quote from: realist on March 16, 2015, 11:33:24 AM
Nice to see 4 representatives from the MIAA on the GL all region team.  Verkiak and Lang first team, McAfee 2nd team, and Englehart 3rd team.

And Coach Ross as coach of the year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 16, 2015, 01:42:23 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on March 16, 2015, 12:11:22 PM
Quote from: realist on March 16, 2015, 11:33:24 AM
Nice to see 4 representatives from the MIAA on the GL all region team.  Verkiak and Lang first team, McAfee 2nd team, and Englehart 3rd team.

And Coach Ross as coach of the year.
Shame on me I totally didn't see that.  He has done a great job no doubt about that.  One of these years we will break that elite 8 jinx. :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 19, 2015, 03:35:53 PM
Article about Thomas More's women and a familiar gym for practice.   http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/20/sports/ncaabasketball/on-kentuckys-other-undefeated-team-the-other-star-named-moss.html?ref=sports&_r=2
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on March 19, 2015, 05:25:01 PM
The attention is nice and deserved.

I understand the Times' interest in Sydney's relationship with her father and it's fair to ask about it the first time you cover Thomas More. I think we did last year, too. But hopefully the media that are here this weekend won't continually return to that topic. In addition to her incredible talent, she's engaging and articulate. She's a good interview and should be allowed to shine as her own person this weekend.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bill on March 21, 2015, 10:34:51 PM
Congrats to Thomas More from the people at FDU. Outstanding run!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 21, 2015, 11:06:54 PM
Went to watch the semis and finals at Van Noord Arena and was rewarded with the opportunity to see a rare athlete at the D3 level. I don't have enough adjectives to describe Sydney Moss who led Thomas More to a 33-0 season and a national championship. Playing on basically one and a half legs (she is obviously not fully recovered from last season's ACL injury) Moss finished tonight's game with triple-double, getting 19 points, 16 boards and 11 assists. She didn't even shoot the ball all that well this weekend but does a great job involving her teammates who played terrific team defense on George Fox and dictated game tempo throughout. George Fox's key players--Morris, Codling and Benner--were never in synch, couldn't compete on the boards and shot poorly from the stripe. Still, the Bruins had a great season as 32-1 and national runners-up is nothing to sneeze at so congrats to them too. Nice touch of Calvin to bring in the Hudsonville Unity Christian High School pep band to add some atmosphere to VNA.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on March 21, 2015, 11:23:54 PM
Quote from: oldknight on March 21, 2015, 11:06:54 PM
Went to watch the semis and finals at Van Noord Arena and was rewarded with the opportunity to see a rare athlete at the D3 level. I don't have enough adjectives to describe Sydney Moss who led Thomas More to a 33-0 season and a national championship. Playing on basically one and a half legs (she is obviously not fully recovered from last season's ACL injury) Moss finished tonight's game with triple-double, getting 19 points, 16 boards and 11 assists. She didn't even shoot the ball all that well this weekend but does a great job involving her teammates who played terrific team defense on George Fox and dictated game tempo throughout. George Fox's key players--Morris, Codling and Benner--were never in synch, couldn't compete on the boards and shot poorly from the stripe. Still, the Bruins had a great season as 32-1 and national runners-up is nothing to sneeze at so congrats to them too. Nice touch of Calvin to bring in the Hudsonville Unity Christian High School pep band to add some atmosphere to VNA.

I went to the championship game tonight too. Moss was phenomenal.  I was also impressed with Thomas More's point guard, 5'2" Abby Owings, a freshman.  She was a like the "the little ball of hate".  Tough as nails and didn't back down to anyone.  Thomas More only loses 2 players.  They are young and will probably be favored to repeat in Moss's senior year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on March 22, 2015, 12:18:26 AM
Congrats to Thomas More. They played a great game tonight. George Fox didn't look like the same team this weekend as they did against Calvin last weekend.

Calvin gets their shot at the defending champs next season at Van Noord Arena early in the season. Should be fun!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on April 21, 2015, 04:48:24 PM
Jan 20  Calvin at Hope 7pm
Feb 20  Hope at Calvin  tba  (men also there)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on April 22, 2015, 06:40:15 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on March 22, 2015, 12:18:26 AM
Congrats to Thomas More. They played a great game tonight. George Fox didn't look like the same team this weekend as they did against Calvin last weekend.

Calvin gets their shot at the defending champs next season at Van Noord Arena early in the season. Should be fun!

Yikes, not sure about fun.  But it will surely be a challenge!  TMU has almost everyone back including all but 11.6 ppg of their offense.  Calvin loses over 41 ppg of offense including their top 3.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on April 30, 2015, 02:05:40 PM
from the Kalamazoo Gazette 'Dream Team'

Allie Thiel, Otsego senior

There wasn't much Otsego's Allie Thiel didn't do for the Bulldogs this season. The 5-foot-7 guard recorded 14.3 points, 8.6 rebounds, 4.1 assists, 2.9 steals and one block per game. She led the Bulldogs in points, rebounds and assists, while finishing second in steals and blocks. Thiel was also often tasked with guarding the opposing team's best player. Otsego consistently looked to Thiel in crucial moments and the three-year varsity player rarely failed. Thiel, who will continue her career at Hope College next season, won back-to-back district titles her sophomore and junior seasons before helping Otsego to a 15-7 record this year. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on April 30, 2015, 10:27:06 PM
Francesca Buchanan, 6-0 F/C  Sparta will attend Hope

Emily VanVliet, C will attend Calvin

http://highschoolsports.mlive.com/news/article/-5054268181620971271/introducing-the-2014-2015-mlive-grand-rapids-girls-basketball-dream-team/  I don't know how tall VanVliet is but in that photo she appears taller than Buchanan.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on May 01, 2015, 10:53:53 AM
Quote from: sac on April 30, 2015, 10:27:06 PM
  I don't know how tall VanVliet is but in that photo she appears taller than Buchanan.

6'2"
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on May 06, 2015, 12:50:59 PM
Women's NCAA Championship game to be held at "In The Annapolis" next season.

Tournament format

normal 1st weekend
normal 2nd weekend
semi final at neutral location
week off
championship
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on July 31, 2015, 10:45:03 AM
Just saw this go by on twitter (from Hope WBB Coach Brian Morehouse)

R.I.P. Ron Weatherbee.  Voice of the Dutch and Dutchmen for many years.  Great man and class act with a passion for Hope.  He will be missed
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on October 27, 2015, 08:31:37 AM
No Allie Thiel on Hope roster?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on October 27, 2015, 09:00:12 AM
Quote from: bballforever on October 27, 2015, 08:31:37 AM
No Allie Thiel on Hope roster?

She is on the JV roster
http://athletics.hope.edu/sports/wbkb/2015-16/roster_jayvee?sort=number
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on October 27, 2015, 11:17:59 AM
Thanks sac.

Is there a Calvin roster out there yet?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on October 27, 2015, 12:11:20 PM
Quote from: bballforever on October 27, 2015, 11:17:59 AM
Thanks sac.

Is there a Calvin roster out there yet?

http://www.calvinknights.com/sports/wbkb/2015-16/roster
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on October 28, 2015, 12:35:48 AM
Quote from: sac on October 27, 2015, 09:00:12 AM
Quote from: bballforever on October 27, 2015, 08:31:37 AM
No Allie Thiel on Hope roster?

She is on the JV roster
http://athletics.hope.edu/sports/wbkb/2015-16/roster_jayvee?sort=number
I had read that Haley Muller (currently playing Volleyball for Hope) earlier had talked to Coach Mo about playing basketball. Change of heart?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on October 28, 2015, 06:37:13 PM
Quote from: jspiii on October 28, 2015, 12:35:48 AM
Quote from: sac on October 27, 2015, 09:00:12 AM
Quote from: bballforever on October 27, 2015, 08:31:37 AM
No Allie Thiel on Hope roster?

She is on the JV roster
http://athletics.hope.edu/sports/wbkb/2015-16/roster_jayvee?sort=number
I had read that Haley Muller (currently playing Volleyball for Hope) earlier had talked to Coach Mo about playing basketball. Change of heart?
Heard that too.  Volleyball season is still underway so she couldn't try out, probably wouldn't be listed on the roster in any case.  Perkins is still playing soccer, but she's a returner to varsity bball so makes sense she'd be listed.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on October 29, 2015, 12:34:20 PM
D3hoops Preseason Top 25 is out - link below.  Thomas More unanimous #1 - well duh!!  Calvin at #10, Hope at #11 - separated by 3 points.

http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/women/2015-16/preseason
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on November 02, 2015, 12:46:49 PM
Looks like Calvin had a scrimmage on their calendar with Cornerstone last weekend.  Anyone see it?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on November 02, 2015, 12:55:31 PM
QuoteD3hoops Preseason Top 25 is out - link below.  Thomas More unanimous #1 - well duh!!  Calvin at #10, Hope at #11 - separated by 3 points.

http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/women/2015-16/preseason

I'm a little surprised the poll has those two teams that close. Hope seems to have more back than Calvin but maybe I'm underselling the Knights. I had both on my ballot but Hope was a surer thing to me than Calvin.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on November 02, 2015, 10:50:53 PM
Quote from: bballforever on November 02, 2015, 12:46:49 PM
Looks like Calvin had a scrimmage on their calendar with Cornerstone last weekend.  Anyone see it?
Hope had a scrimmage against Cornerstone on 10/28 but no news on that either.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on November 03, 2015, 10:03:05 AM
Quote from: jspiii on November 02, 2015, 10:50:53 PM
Quote from: bballforever on November 02, 2015, 12:46:49 PM
Looks like Calvin had a scrimmage on their calendar with Cornerstone last weekend.  Anyone see it?
Hope had a scrimmage against Cornerstone on 10/28 but no news on that either.
Hope played Cornerstone to a virtual draw . . . losing the first 20 minutes, and then winning the second by nearly the same margin.
Hope played without point guard Angelique Gaddy, who should soon return from her ACL a year ago. And Hope's two frosh both appear to be significant future contributors.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on November 03, 2015, 02:54:56 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on November 02, 2015, 12:55:31 PM
QuoteD3hoops Preseason Top 25 is out - link below.  Thomas More unanimous #1 - well duh!!  Calvin at #10, Hope at #11 - separated by 3 points.

http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/women/2015-16/preseason

I'm a little surprised the poll has those two teams that close. Hope seems to have more back than Calvin but maybe I'm underselling the Knights. I had both on my ballot but Hope was a surer thing to me than Calvin.

One might argue whether 10/11 is too high of a national ranking for Calvin/Hope but it seems to me ranking them next to one another is about right at this stage. Both coaches have the same number of holes to fill in their lineup, and right now I don't know who will be able to do a better job of that. Both teams lose three starters of similar quality. One unknown is Hope's Angelique Gaddy who is trying to recover again from a serious knee injury. I feel badly for the young lady who is a fine ball player when healthy. I think Calvin has a pretty good entering class, although knowing John Ross, I'm sure he will tell you that the newcomers' heads are spinning and that they have a lot of catching up to do in order to be contributing players on this year's team.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on November 03, 2015, 03:31:57 PM
Good input. Thanks.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 03, 2015, 06:47:49 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on November 02, 2015, 12:55:31 PM
QuoteD3hoops Preseason Top 25 is out - link below.  Thomas More unanimous #1 - well duh!!  Calvin at #10, Hope at #11 - separated by 3 points.

http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/women/2015-16/preseason

I'm a little surprised the poll has those two teams that close. Hope seems to have more back than Calvin but maybe I'm underselling the Knights. I had both on my ballot but Hope was a surer thing to me than Calvin.

Seems about right to me.  Both teams lost a lot (especially Breanna Verkaik and Kayla Engelhard for Calvin and Rebekah Llorens, Britanny Berry and Hannah Doell for Hope) but both have some solid, experienced players returning.  I give Hope the edge primarily because of inside-outside balance of the returners and they have a star returning in Maura McAfee, a preseason 1st team All American and a double-double machine.  Barring injury she'll finish as Hope's all time rebounder and near the top for career scoring.  They also have their starting PG returning in Autumn Anderson, though she could play at 2 in favor of either Paris Madison or Angelique Gaddy.  Gaddy may be the wild card, it's been a while but she was a budding star as a freshman including 18 in her first Rivalry game at Calvin.  Deadly 3 point shooter Mandy Traversa also returns for Hope.  Calvin lost its top 3 scorers but bring back yet another very talented Verkaik sister (Kally) and Anna Timmer and Abby Springer are also very good.  So I believe Hope brings back more firepower but the difference could very well be which team brings their defense to the highest level.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on November 05, 2015, 03:24:20 PM
McAfee/Hope first team all american.  This is probably the first player Mo has had since Carrie on that list.  Good for her!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 06, 2015, 02:44:18 PM
Coaches poll is out:

1 Calvin  63  (7)
2 Hope  58  (2)
3 Trine  42
4 Albion  38
5 Kalamazoo  37
6 Olivet  31
7 Adrian  30
8 Alma  16
9 Saint Mary's  9
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 07, 2015, 07:59:40 AM
Didn't see them, but heard that Hope looked OK in scrimmages against Cornerstone and Ferris.  Hard to tell much from a scrimmage but heard that they played fairly evenly with Cornerstone and outscored Ferris comfortably.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on November 13, 2015, 09:40:11 PM
Hope JV score: Hope  JV 84 Kellogg CC 59

Starters: Carter, Williams, Swartz, Freberg, Dornoff (all Sophomores)

Leading scorers: Dornoff - 30, Freberg - 10, Williams - 8
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on November 13, 2015, 10:32:07 PM
Calvin opened the season against North Central. I don't know anything about them other than that last year they were #23 according to Massey and they are in the ORV category of this year's d3hoops preseason poll.  Calvin won 106-80.

I was too busy watching soccer and volleyball to follow the game, but I seen that Anna Timmer picked up 25 points and 16 rebounds. Last year she had a very nice year as a non-starting sophomore, averaging 10.5 points and 5 rebounds.

I also see that Calvin turned the ball over 35 times. How that meshes with a 26-point win I'm not quite sure, unless it's the +34 rebound margin and the 51% shooting to NCC's 27%.

North Central had 95 (!) shots and 27 (!!) free-throw attempts. Must have been lots of running going on!

Massey says Calvin should beat Il Tech tomorrow by 64  ::)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on November 13, 2015, 11:12:43 PM
Nice start to the season for the lady Knights.  Only saw last 4 minutes on live streaming.  Was surprised to see them up by 30 and the starters still getting so many minutes.  Not sure what that was about unless coach Ross just wanted them to get more practice breaking the press.  Anyone know differently?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on November 13, 2015, 11:18:06 PM
I watched a large part of the Calvin/North Central game and the Knights looked very sharp. Even at 26 points, the game wasn't as close as the score indicated. Calvin was up by close to 40 late in the game.

Despite having 35 turnovers, Calvin ran through the Cardinals' press at will and looked very good in the half court offense. It's hard to know how much of that was Calvin and how much was North Central being completely discombobulated in its half court defense with two or three players chasing the ball handler and leaving people wide open all over the court. Spaydt hit a handful of threes in the deciding third quarter and had a couple nice runners inside the arc. She has nice touch on her shot.

North Central runs the same System offense as Grinnell so they purposefully take a ton of threes. They didn't make nearly enough tonight to keep the game close.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on November 14, 2015, 12:30:39 AM
I was at the game tonight. Calvin looked really good for this type of game. As Gordon mentioned, North Central plays the Grinnell system so it's just run run run. They jack up threes which creates a lot of rebounds, force a lot of turnovers and just try to create chaos. Calvin handled it well. Having run their own press the last 2 years really helped them here. North Central is such a weird game to prepare for as it's not a normal press team. Good start to the season for the Knights. Great shooting as well.

One thing that was nice to see is it looked like Calvin outran North Central and had more gas at the end. North Central tries to wear opponents down and that didn't happen tonight.

As for leaving the starters in so long, North Central can score quickly and be right back in a game. A 30 point lead in this game is different than others.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Captain_Joe08 on November 21, 2015, 07:55:13 PM
Calvin suffers their first loss of the season in Milwaukee.

Wisconsin Lutheran 86
#10 Calvin 80
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 21, 2015, 09:03:53 PM
Congrats to the Hope Flying Dutch for winning their own tip off tourney.  They completely dominated both nights though I think both opponents were quite overmatched, making it difficult to draw many conclusions from the Dutch's performance.  Congrats also to Maura McAfee for scoring her 1000th point.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 24, 2015, 10:01:49 PM
Very nice win for the Hope Flying Dutch over a strong #6 ranked Wheaton, playing on Wheaton's court.  This is almost the identical Wheaton team that came into Devos and beat the Dutch last year.  The Dutch led only 31-30 at the half but pulled away steadily throughout the 2nd half and won 68-49.  Wheaton shot only 25% to 40% for the Dutch.  Most of the other stats were fairly even except notable that the Dutch bench outscored their counterparts at Wheaton by 30-12.  McAfee was big as usual with 15/15.  After the better part of the last two seasons lost to injury, Gaddy looks to be rounding in to form with 14 pts, 2-3 from beyond the arc, and she still has that sweet pull up jumper in the lane.  Lots of other solid contributions, the freshmen Buchanan and Swift are developing quickly.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on November 24, 2015, 11:46:30 PM
I watched parts of the game and, whatever adjustments Hope made at the half, they worked.

Despire the close score, Wheaton looked good against the press in the first half. They moved the ball well, got a ton of offensive rebounds and held Hope to a lot of off balanced shots. Then they came out in the second half and couldn't duplicate that. I don't know if Hope did something different or Wheaton just crumbled under the pressing defense.

Whatever the reason, that's a nice win for the Flying Dutch.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on December 19, 2015, 02:59:03 PM
Thomas More 85
Calvin 69

I watched this one online today.  Thomas More controlled what may be the toughest game on its schedule with the starters playing late into the game despite a double-digit lead. The Saints play one more non-conference game against Illinois Wesleyan, which uses a pressing style similar to Calvin. Then they go back into conference play where they've lost one game in five seasons, dating back before Sydney Moss arrived.

Thomas More looked really good. I don't know if Moss practiced with the team during the NCAA's compliance review, but the five starters played really well together for just their second time in game action this season. The guards trust the forwards on defense and release down the floor to trigger the fast break. On offense they seldom overpass and keep each other involved. The point guard Owings is more aggressive offensively and Kiernan is playing like an All-American. They're better this season than last.

Of course, that's all easier when you have Moss. She's so superior in size, strength and skill.  She finishes three assists shy of a triple double and scores 20 points during the first half when the game is in question. She makes perfect entry passes from the wing to her teammates in the post. She's athletic enough to turn tough, off balance shots into high percentage attempts. At one point TMC ran an alley-oop play for her, with a layup instead of a dunk. She didn't convert because she got fouled. But I don't what other team has a player where you can even try that.

As for Calvin, I've never seen them get outworked. Their players hustle all game, regardless of score, and they did it again today. They got nine 3-pointers from two players (Spayde and Karger) but only two in the first half when it was still a game. I've watched the Knights a couple times now and their guards seem to take a lot of tough shots. They are either threes or some kind of off-balance runner. I thought they had a good game plan to press Thomas More (which they usually do regardless of opponent), but they would've needed to shoot a really high percentage from three to keep this one close.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on December 19, 2015, 04:14:58 PM
Certainly a real pre-Christmas treat this afternoon to see the top women's team in D3 take on the Lady Knights. It's hard to believe this is the first basketball game I've seen at Van Noord Arena since Thomas More won the national championship there in March. TM is the better team but I actually came away more encouraged than I expected about Calvin, a team still trying to come to grips with the many changes from last season, all while taking on a far more veteran squad, the defending champs, and a club working on a 40+ game winning streak. Given the likelihood that Calvin will improve the cohesiveness of their team play, and slowly mold their young talent into effective college level players, I think this Lady Knights team might compete very well against the best in D3 by March.

Calvin needed a better shooting game than they got today in order to keep it close, and suffered through a lengthy drought that started in the second quarter and lasted much of the third. That's almost always death against a top team, but especially the Saints who have a terrific transition game and turned many of those missed shots into uncontested layups and other easy scores on the other end. Calvin had a chance to take a one point lead when the game was 29-27 but missed a good looking three pointer. From that point, TM went on a 28-6 run to ruin any Calvin hopes of an upset. Springer had a miserable game (1-13 from the floor and several turnovers) and it would have been nice to see what would have happened if Calvin could have kept the game in single digits going into the fourth quarter. As Gordon Mann noted, it's tough to outwork the Lady Knights and there was no quit in them, though it must be said that if the game remains close, Sydney Moss is probably going to take over the game down the stretch. There simply is no one in D3 like her.

I'm wondering how long John Ross will need before he will be able to move his two tall and talented freshmen--VanVliet and Warners--into major roles on this team, and what it will look like when he does. Neither of them played a lot of minutes and they looked like freshmen for whom the pace of the game looked to move more quickly than their instincts allowed them to play. But they are good prospects and Coach Ross has a track record of developing talent so there are reasons to be optimistic for the long term.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on December 19, 2015, 08:09:43 PM
And kudos to Calvin for scheduling Thomas More, a team that looks destined for a second undefeated season, and for doing respectably well.

Although Hope's dominating performances this weekend partly reflect the lesser competition, I do think the Hope women are better than last season . . . and helped by the return of Gaddy and Perkins and the addition of two super frosh. With the second five virtually on a par with the first five, their depth seems to wear teams down.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on January 02, 2016, 07:59:07 PM
With 9 minutes and 10 seconds left in the first half, the Hope women led Adrian 19 to 18. 11.5 minutes later (at 17:45 of the second half) they were ahead 57 to 18 . . . a 38 to 0 run in 11.5 minutes (unless I've made a mistake)

I doubt stats for biggest game scoring run exist (Sac? Alan Babbitt?) but I also doubt any Hope BB team has ever equaled that . . . or whether any future time ever will.  Freakish, especially since Adrian was good enough to outscore Hope in the other 28.5 minutes (albeit many of their points coming in the 4th quarter against less defensive pressure).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 02, 2016, 08:39:13 PM
Quote from: pointlem on January 02, 2016, 07:59:07 PM
With 9 minutes and 10 seconds left in the first half, the Hope women led Adrian 19 to 18. 11.5 minutes later (at 17:45 of the second half) they were ahead 57 to 18 . . . a 38 to 0 run in 11.5 minutes (unless I've made a mistake)

I doubt stats for biggest game scoring run exist (Sac? Alan Babbitt?) but I also doubt any Hope BB team has ever equaled that . . . or whether any future time ever will.  Freakish, especially since Adrian was good enough to outscore Hope in the other 28.5 minutes (albeit many of their points coming in the 4th quarter against less defensive pressure).

I kept thinking something was wrong with livestats. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on January 09, 2016, 03:11:16 PM
Lady Knights come from behind to win a heart-throbbing 79-77 overtime affair at Olivet. Bre Luurstema's two free throws with 0.6 left (she was fouled in the backcourt) was the final margin of victory. I only saw the fourth quarter and the overtime but the for the most part Kally Verkaik appears to have bailed out the Knights as she made numerous big baskets and ended her day with 21 points.

Got to admit I was genuinely amused to see an unusual collection of Calvin and Hope fans seated side by side behind the Calvin bench--with Davelaar chatting it up with Jim Timmer in the corner--as the Hope faithful awaited the start of their men's game against the Comets. I could clearly see sac, FDF and CM about midway up. Kudos to them for not (openly) cheering that late missed free throw by Verkaik with 9 seconds left in overtime, a miss that nearly forced a second extra session. 8-)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 09, 2016, 03:22:50 PM
Calvin 77. Olivet 75 Ot

Knights super fortunate to pull this out.  Comets missed 4 point blank layups in the last 4 of reg. 1 more in ot blew a 10 pt lead after I walked in
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on January 10, 2016, 02:28:11 PM
Quote from: sac on January 09, 2016, 03:22:50 PM
Calvin 77. Olivet 75 Ot

Knights super fortunate to pull this out.  Comets missed 4 point blank layups in the last 4 of reg. 1 more in ot blew a 10 pt lead after I walked in

Sounds like you helped the Knights turn it around when you came in Sac.  Hopefully you'll be there when Calvin plays at Hope January 20th and can provide the same results  ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 20, 2016, 08:59:17 AM
Big Hope-Calvin Rivalry game at Devos tonight for sole 1st place in MIAA.  Despite records, I view this as a toss up.  Calvin has played a stronger schedule this year, has given the Dutch fits the past couple of years, and creates some matchup problems for Hope.  Devos may be the difference.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 20, 2016, 08:54:50 PM
Yikes, looks like I missed that one badly.  Hope has Calvin nearly doubled up at the end of 3rd.  Knights are having one of those shooting nights that the Dutch have had vs. Calvin in the past couple of years.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on January 21, 2016, 03:06:56 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 20, 2016, 08:54:50 PM
Yikes, looks like I missed that one badly.  Hope has Calvin nearly doubled up at the end of 3rd.  Knights are having one of those shooting nights that the Dutch have had vs. Calvin in the past couple of years.
We all were surprised, Roundball . . . by the combination of Hope playing as well as it could, and Calvin having an abnormally cold night (albeit without Hope giving them many easy looks at the basket).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 21, 2016, 03:27:11 PM
Hope defense surely played a role but I'm also quite sure the Knights won't shoot like that at home.  Looks like season FG % is right around 44%, just like the Dutch.  Some nights that ball just won't go in. 

What's weirder to me though is the season long troubles at the foul line.  Knights aren't much over 50% for the season and were well under that last night.  Can't figure it for a team that otherwise shoots it pretty well.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on January 21, 2016, 03:27:48 PM
I think the biggest difference from last years' Hope/Calvin games was Hope's point guards beating the Calvin press and dictating the offensive play.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on January 21, 2016, 03:32:32 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 21, 2016, 03:27:11 PM

What's weirder to me though is the season long troubles at the foul line.  Knights aren't much over 50% for the season and were well under that last night.  Can't figure it for a team that otherwise shoots it pretty well.

Andre Drummond of the Pistons could only hope for 50% free throw shooting per last nights 13 for 36 performance against Houston.   :D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 21, 2016, 03:34:32 PM
Quote from: jspiii on January 21, 2016, 03:27:48 PM
I think the biggest difference from last years' Hope/Calvin games was Hope's point guards beating the Calvin press and dictating the offense play.

Having junior PG Gaddy back after missing most of the past two years was big, she's getting better every game.  She seems to come up big vs the Knights, going back to early in her freshman season when she was a difference maker in her first game at Van Noord.  Morehouse also gave more minutes than normal to the quick PG Paris Madison, who responded with another of several very nice games she's had vs. the Knights.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 21, 2016, 03:36:16 PM
Quote from: jspiii on January 21, 2016, 03:32:32 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 21, 2016, 03:27:11 PM

What's weirder to me though is the season long troubles at the foul line.  Knights aren't much over 50% for the season and were well under that last night.  Can't figure it for a team that otherwise shoots it pretty well.

Andre Drummond of the Pistons could only hope for 50% free throw shooting per last nights 13 for 36 performance against Houston.   :D

That was painful.  NOT how you want to get in the record books :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on January 21, 2016, 04:36:56 PM
First opportunity for me to see 6' Hope freshman Francesca Buchanan.  In just 17 minutes of her first Hope-Calvin game she shoots 7 of 12, with 2 of 2 from the line, for a total of 16 points.  She also had 4 steals and 7 boards.  A great player off Hope's bench, often giving Maura a break.  Very aggressive around the basket.  Anyone know anything about her high school career at Sparta?

I was also hoping to see fellow frosh Victoria Swift, who has started 3 games for Hope already at the guard position, and is averaging just over nine points a game.  Anyone know why she did not play?

Unrelated, it looks like Hope's star recruit from last year, when she was a HS junior, is still planning to come to Hope:
www.celinaking.com  We should be well stocked at the guard position, especially point guard.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on January 21, 2016, 05:54:15 PM
Quote from: AlwaysHope on January 21, 2016, 04:36:56 PM
First opportunity for me to see 6' Hope freshman Francesca Buchanan.  In just 17 minutes of her first Hope-Calvin game she shoots 7 of 12, with 2 of 2 from the line, for a total of 16 points.  She also had 4 steals and 7 boards.  A great player off Hope's bench, often giving Maura a break.  Very aggressive around the basket.  Anyone know anything about her high school career at Sparta?

I was also hoping to see fellow frosh Victoria Swift, who has started 3 games for Hope already at the guard position, and is averaging just over nine points a game.  Anyone know why she did not play?



Unrelated, it looks like Hope's star recruit from last year, when she was a HS junior, is still planning to come to Hope:
www.celinaking.com  We should be well stocked at the guard position, especially point guard.
She was at the Hoops Luncheon on Monday with a brace/cast on her knee.  She hurt it in practice and according to Moe they were waiting on the results of an MRI which were to be reported Monday afternoon.  Too bad, should the results not be good,  as she and Buchanan are both contributing greatly as Freshpersons and point to a wonderful future for Hope.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 02, 2016, 06:16:07 AM
Congratulations to Hope's Maura McAfee for being named MIAA player of the week (3rd time this season, 8th in her career) and for being named to the D3Hoops national team of the week!  Maura broke Hope's career rebounding record while averaging 21 points and 15 rebounds in 2 games last week.

Haven't seen Victoria Swift since wwjjdd reported her knee brace.   I'm assuming the MRI results were not good.  Very unfortunate for her and the Dutch, she was making great contributions as a frosh and was one of the better 3 pt shooters in D3.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on February 02, 2016, 04:39:24 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 02, 2016, 06:16:07 AM
Congratulations to Hope's Maura McAfee for being named MIAA player of the week (3rd time this season, 8th in her career) and for being named to the D3Hoops national team of the week!  Maura broke Hope's career rebounding record while averaging 21 points and 15 rebounds in 2 games last week.

Haven't seen Victoria Swift since wwjjdd reported her knee brace.   I'm assuming the MRI results were not good.  Very unfortunate for her and the Dutch, she was making great contributions as a frosh and was one of the better 3 pt shooters in D3.
Yes, Hope has lost two fine guards--Tyra Smith and Victoria--to season-ending injuries.  Although it could wish to have them both (or even either of them) as they look ahead to the post-season, the team has nevertheless exceeded expectations, with an average 30-point victory margin.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wwjjdd on February 03, 2016, 11:07:37 PM
Quote from: pointlem on February 02, 2016, 04:39:24 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 02, 2016, 06:16:07 AM
Congratulations to Hope's Maura McAfee for being named MIAA player of the week (3rd time this season, 8th in her career) and for being named to the D3Hoops national team of the week!  Maura broke Hope's career rebounding record while averaging 21 points and 15 rebounds in 2 games last week.

Haven't seen Victoria Swift since wwjjdd reported her knee brace.   I'm assuming the MRI results were not good.  Very unfortunate for her and the Dutch, she was making great contributions as a frosh and was one of the better 3 pt shooters in D3.
Yes, Hope has lost two fine guards--Tyra Smith and Victoria--to season-ending injuries.  Although it could wish to have them both (or even either of them) as they look ahead to the post-season, the team has nevertheless exceeded expectations, with an average 30-point victory margin.

I noticed that an new player, Vanessa Freberg #04 G, is now listed on the roster.  Replacing Victoria I assume.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 04, 2016, 04:30:31 PM
Coach Brian Morehouse is set to hit a milestone on Saturday if his team is able to win their game against St. Mary's.  Coach Mo's record sits at 499-76 (0.868).  With a win on Saturday, he will achieve the 500 win mark in a remarkable 576 total games!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 06, 2016, 07:49:10 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 04, 2016, 04:30:31 PM
Coach Brian Morehouse is set to hit a milestone on Saturday if his team is able to win their game against St. Mary's.  Coach Mo's record sits at 499-76 (0.868).  With a win on Saturday, he will achieve the 500 win mark in a remarkable 576 total games!!

Mission accomplished for Coach Mo.  With today's dominating 95-58 win over St. Mary's, Morehouse's record is now 500-76.  It's my understanding that Morehouse's winning % of .868 trails only UConn's Geno Auriemma and Amherst's GP Gromacki.  With Tufts downing Amherst today (breaking Amherst's 121 game home winning streak) Coach Mo creeps a bit closer to Gromacki and Hope will gain on Amherst in the rankings.  Congrats Coach Mo, by all accounts a first class guy.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 07, 2016, 03:11:52 AM
Also this....

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hollandsentinel.com%2Fgalleryimage%2FMI%2F20160206%2FSPORTS%2F206009993%2FPH%2F0%2F1%2FPH-206009993.jpg%26amp%3BMaxw%3D583&hash=aa956ab770e9be83fc7e72001df831615dbee9f0)


and yes, congrats to Coach Mo.  Really an incredible achievement in such short time.  I only regret that I don't get to watch his teams play more.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 09, 2016, 05:12:55 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 06, 2016, 07:49:10 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 04, 2016, 04:30:31 PM
Coach Brian Morehouse is set to hit a milestone on Saturday if his team is able to win their game against St. Mary's.  Coach Mo's record sits at 499-76 (0.868).  With a win on Saturday, he will achieve the 500 win mark in a remarkable 576 total games!!

Mission accomplished for Coach Mo.  With today's dominating 95-58 win over St. Mary's, Morehouse's record is now 500-76.  It's my understanding that Morehouse's winning % of .868 trails only UConn's Geno Auriemma and Amherst's GP Gromacki.  With Tufts downing Amherst today (breaking Amherst's 121 game home winning streak) Coach Mo creeps a bit closer to Gromacki and Hope will gain on Amherst in the rankings.  Congrats Coach Mo, by all accounts a first class guy.

Here are your Top 5 (minimum five years coach) - updated through today (Gromacki was actually ahead of Meek going into the season, but is .0001 now behind):







1.Geno AuriemmaUConnDI940-134.875
3.Michael MeekGeorge FoxDIII151-20.8833
2.G.P. GromackiAmherstDIII416-61.8832
4.Brian MorehouseHopeDIII500-76.868
5.Nancy FaheyWashUDIII704-128.846
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 09, 2016, 05:24:08 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 09, 2016, 05:12:55 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 06, 2016, 07:49:10 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 04, 2016, 04:30:31 PM
Coach Brian Morehouse is set to hit a milestone on Saturday if his team is able to win their game against St. Mary's.  Coach Mo's record sits at 499-76 (0.868).  With a win on Saturday, he will achieve the 500 win mark in a remarkable 576 total games!!

Mission accomplished for Coach Mo.  With today's dominating 95-58 win over St. Mary's, Morehouse's record is now 500-76.  It's my understanding that Morehouse's winning % of .868 trails only UConn's Geno Auriemma and Amherst's GP Gromacki.  With Tufts downing Amherst today (breaking Amherst's 121 game home winning streak) Coach Mo creeps a bit closer to Gromacki and Hope will gain on Amherst in the rankings.  Congrats Coach Mo, by all accounts a first class guy.

Here are your Top 5 (minimum five years coach) - updated through today (Gromacki was actually ahead of Meek going into the season, but is .0001 now behind):







1.Geno AuriemmaUConnDI940-134.875
3.Michael MeekGeorge FoxDIII151-20.8833
2.G.P. GromackiAmherstDIII416-61.8832
4.Brian MorehouseHopeDIII500-76.868
5.Nancy FaheyWashUDIII704-128.846

Great info, thanks Dave.  What a list of coaches, progams, and accomplishments!

I'm guessing my memory was from a couple of years ago.  Haven't done th emath but guessing Morehouse might have been a little ahead of Meek on a winning % basis then.  George Fox has been on a great run and with fewer games on his record, it's a bit easier to move the overall winning % up - and Calvin gave Hope fits last year :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 09, 2016, 05:31:22 PM
Well Meek is now in his sixth season, so technically he just qualified for that last after last season... thus why you probably didn't consider him when doing any research.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 09, 2016, 08:47:06 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 09, 2016, 05:12:55 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 06, 2016, 07:49:10 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 04, 2016, 04:30:31 PM
Coach Brian Morehouse is set to hit a milestone on Saturday if his team is able to win their game against St. Mary's.  Coach Mo's record sits at 499-76 (0.868).  With a win on Saturday, he will achieve the 500 win mark in a remarkable 576 total games!!

Mission accomplished for Coach Mo.  With today's dominating 95-58 win over St. Mary's, Morehouse's record is now 500-76.  It's my understanding that Morehouse's winning % of .868 trails only UConn's Geno Auriemma and Amherst's GP Gromacki.  With Tufts downing Amherst today (breaking Amherst's 121 game home winning streak) Coach Mo creeps a bit closer to Gromacki and Hope will gain on Amherst in the rankings.  Congrats Coach Mo, by all accounts a first class guy.

Here are your Top 5 (minimum five years coach) - updated through today (Gromacki was actually ahead of Meek going into the season, but is .0001 now behind):







1.Geno AuriemmaUConnDI940-134.875
3.Michael MeekGeorge FoxDIII151-20.8833
2.G.P. GromackiAmherstDIII416-61.8832
4.Brian MorehouseHopeDIII500-76.868
5.Nancy FaheyWashUDIII704-128.846

Also, if you extend that list down (at least at the beginning of this year) according to the record book, Calvin's John Ross is ranked 8th with a winning percentage of .821.

We're pretty fortunate here in West Michigan to have two of the winningest coaches / programs in the whole country across all divisions.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/w_basketball_RB/2016/coaches.pdf
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 09, 2016, 09:39:33 PM
Brian's first two teams went 31-23 making his win% in the last 20 years .898

His teams have not lost to Alma since 2000, Olivet since 1999, Adrian since 1999 and never to Kalamazoo.  I think they have 1 loss to St. Mary's and 1 to Trine as well.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 09, 2016, 09:51:58 PM
Quote from: sac on February 09, 2016, 09:39:33 PM
Brian's first two teams went 31-23 making his win% in the last 20 years .898

His teams have not lost to Alma since 2000, Olivet since 1999, Adrian since 1999 and never to Kalamazoo.  I think they have 1 loss to St. Mary's and 1 to Trine as well.

But he's still not even halfway to Pat Summit's win total (!,098). ;)  Alas, Geno will probably pass her in another three/maybe four years.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 10, 2016, 05:38:42 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 09, 2016, 09:51:58 PM
Quote from: sac on February 09, 2016, 09:39:33 PM
Brian's first two teams went 31-23 making his win% in the last 20 years .898

His teams have not lost to Alma since 2000, Olivet since 1999, Adrian since 1999 and never to Kalamazoo.  I think they have 1 loss to St. Mary's and 1 to Trine as well.

But he's still not even halfway to Pat Summit's win total (!,098). ;)  Alas, Geno will probably pass her in another three/maybe four years.

He's still young, he could get there if he keeps coaching and keeps winning at the same % that he has for the past 20 years.  It's a little tougher since top D3 teams play 6-8 fewer games/year than top D1 teams.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 10, 2016, 02:38:56 PM
Alright, folks -- the NCAA's first women's basketball regional rankings are posted. Check out the full list from D3hoops.com:
http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2016/02/10/first-2016-regional-rankings-released-today/
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 10, 2016, 03:26:02 PM
Hope comes in at #2 behind Thomas More. 

The women's and mens' committee appear to be treating SOS differently  (Hope women, PSU-Behrend men)?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 10, 2016, 03:50:05 PM
They are treating it slightly differently. As they have both said on Hoopsville, the men really subscribed to the .03 SO = 2 games theory... the women look at it but don't buy in that hard. Not sure how much might adjust in the coming weeks, though. I also don't usually take in the first week's rankings as meaning much or setting any pattern for either side.

I would also say, the men and women have always viewed and read into the criteria completely differently. There has never been a year where they are in agreement or even close to lock step with one another.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 10, 2016, 10:53:45 PM
Maybe Dave can weigh in here or someone else who may know. Calvin is only credited for a 14-5 in division record even though they played and beat Illinois Tech. They are D3 provisional so does this not count then? Not sure if it would help or hurt as they are 0-17 but just curious. Illinois Tech is listed in the Central region data sheet though.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 11, 2016, 05:26:03 PM
Illinois Tech had to do year 2 provisional over, so they don't count this year.  I imagine Calvin scheduled them last spring with the idea they would count this year.


It would help Calvin's win% but would hurt their SOS.  Its probably best it doesn't count.  Calvin's probably not getting a bid unless they win the MIAA tournament anyway.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 11, 2016, 09:44:19 PM
Quote from: sac on February 11, 2016, 05:26:03 PM
Illinois Tech had to do year 2 provisional over, so they don't count this year.  I imagine Calvin scheduled them last spring with the idea they would count this year.


It would help Calvin's win% but would hurt their SOS.  Its probably best it doesn't count.  Calvin's probably not getting a bid unless they win the MIAA tournament anyway.

Gotcha.  So does it count in year 3 and 4 of provisional?

Yes, it was very doubtful before the loss to Trine, now with that loss there really isn't any way to get in unless they win the MIAA tournament.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 11, 2016, 10:51:21 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 11, 2016, 09:44:19 PM
Quote from: sac on February 11, 2016, 05:26:03 PM
Illinois Tech had to do year 2 provisional over, so they don't count this year.  I imagine Calvin scheduled them last spring with the idea they would count this year.


It would help Calvin's win% but would hurt their SOS.  Its probably best it doesn't count.  Calvin's probably not getting a bid unless they win the MIAA tournament anyway.

Gotcha.  So does it count in year 3 and 4 of provisional?

Yes, it was very doubtful before the loss to Trine, now with that loss there really isn't any way to get in unless they win the MIAA tournament.

For the opponent, yes, though the provisional is still ineligible to participate postseason.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 12, 2016, 11:05:58 AM
Sorry to be late to the party, everyone covered this already.

Illinois Tech repeated their year, thus still a P2 in terms of their provisional status and thus don't count towards criteria. Yes, P3 and P4 teams count for criteria, but are still not eligible for the NCAA Tournament (SCAC men had this happen a few years ago when a team won the conference tournament, but since they were ineligible, Trinity (TX) already knew they were going to the NCAA tournament with the AQ).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 17, 2016, 10:05:39 PM
Congrats to the Hope Flying Dutch for clinching the outright regular season league title and running their record to 24-0.  The final regular season game has the makings of a trap game - there's not much at stake, it's at rival Calvin, who would no doubt love to put a blemish on that unbeaten record.  Not to mention that Calvin has a really nice team.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 17, 2016, 10:40:17 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 17, 2016, 10:05:39 PM
Congrats to the Hope Flying Dutch for clinching the outright regular season league title and running their record to 24-0.  The final regular season game has the makings of a trap game - there's not much at stake, it's at rival Calvin, who would no doubt love to put a blemish on that unbeaten record.  Not to mention that Calvin has a really nice team.

I agree with what you say in that it's a potential trap game if it was a normal game. But as we all know Calvin vs Hope is not normal. You never want to lose that game. I don't think there's anyway that Hope overlooks it.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 17, 2016, 10:50:43 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 17, 2016, 10:40:17 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 17, 2016, 10:05:39 PM
Congrats to the Hope Flying Dutch for clinching the outright regular season league title and running their record to 24-0.  The final regular season game has the makings of a trap game - there's not much at stake, it's at rival Calvin, who would no doubt love to put a blemish on that unbeaten record.  Not to mention that Calvin has a really nice team.

I agree with what you say in that it's a potential trap game if it was a normal game. But as we all know Calvin vs Hope is not normal. You never want to lose that game. I don't think there's anyway that Hope overlooks it.

Good point.  I guess if you can't get motivated for that game, there's no Hope :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 18, 2016, 04:51:55 PM
There isn't that much time left in the regular season as teams continue to fight to get into conference tournaments and position themselves for hopefully NCAA tournament bids. Second round of Regional Rankings are also out with plenty of answers... and questions. Plus, some teams are putting on some shows recently including a lot of buzzer beaters!

On Thursday night's Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com), Dave McHugh rolls up his sleeves and takes a look at what is happening as we head into the last ten days of the regular season. McHugh will also get some insight on Wednesday's insane men's basketball game between Lynchburg and No. 21 Roanoke. Plus, get a preview of the NESCAC men's and women's tournaments along with talking to ranked teams on both the men's and women's side.

Hoopsville hits the air at 7:00 pm ET and promises to go at least 2 1/2 hours. You can watch the show here: http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2015-16/feb18

Guests scheduled (in order of appearance):
- Alex Graves, Lynchburg senior forward
- Howard Herman, Berkshire Eagle, NESCAC tournaments preview
- Brian Morehouse, No. 3 Hope women's coach
- Bill Broderick, No. 16 Christopher Newport women's coach
- Tom Curle, No. 23 Plattsburgh State men's coach
- Eric Bridgeland, No. 9 Whitman men's coach

You can also tune into the podcast(s) after the show has aired:
SoundCloud: www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville
iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hoopsville/id1059517087

Don't forget you can always interact with us:
Website: www.d3hoopsville.com
Twitter: @d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) or #Hoopsville
Facebook: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville
Email: hoopsville@d3hoops.com
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/d3hoopsville

And a reminder the Hoopsville Fundraising Project is halfway to the deadline but we are not that close to the goal. Please consider helping us cover Division III basketball the way it deserves to be covered: http://igg.me/at/hoopsville-fundraiser/x/6029509.

Thanks!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 20, 2016, 09:40:53 AM
For anyone that can't make the Calvin vs Hope game today it is being televised locally on WGVU.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 20, 2016, 03:02:53 PM
Calvin didn't do everything right, but they still managed to do enough to remove Hope from the unbeaten ranks  88-77.  It really helps to hit 12 of 22 from beyond the arc.  I haven't watch Hope much this year, but they just never did seem to get things synced  Calvin hit enough of the ft's at the end to manage to put off a game try by Hope to salvage the game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 20, 2016, 03:36:49 PM
Quote from: realist on February 20, 2016, 03:02:53 PM
Calvin didn't do everything right, but they still managed to do enough to remove Hope from the unbeaten ranks  88-77.  It really helps to hit 12 of 22 from beyond the arc.  I haven't watch Hope much this year, but they just never did seem to get things synced  Calvin hit enough of the ft's at the end to manage to put off a game try by Hope to salvage the game.

A nice game by Calvin.  Opposite of the earlier game at Devos, Calvin shot well and Hope didn't; that was basically the difference.  Calvin forced Hope's defense to give up a season high, by a significant margin.  I thought Hope's helpside defense was uncharacteristically lackadaisical for most of the game.  Also credit the Knights defense, though McAfee and others missed a number of easy layups that ordinarily are automatic.  Hope was +10 on the boards but it wasn't enough to offset the shooting % margin and the 12 3's.  I'm not one to subscribe to the theory that a loss helps an undefeated team.  But, a good tough battle like that has to be good for both teams heading into the postseason.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 24, 2016, 03:21:31 PM
Hope maintains #2 ranking.  A loss this weekend might make that dicey next week.  Calvin, unfortunately looks like they must win the MIAA Tournament to get bid.  But my knowledge here goes no deeper than these 9 teams, so I don't know were they stand exactly.


1 Thomas More 24-0 25-0
2 Hope 23-1 24-1
3 Ohio Northern 22-3 22-3
4 Denison 22-3 22-3
5 Carnegie Mellon 18-6 18-6
6 Bluffton 21-2 23-2
7 Capital 19-6 19-6
8 Rose-Hulman 20-3 22-3
9 La Roche 22-3 22-3
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 24, 2016, 03:25:59 PM
Quote from: sac on February 24, 2016, 03:21:31 PM
Hope maintains #2 ranking.  A loss this weekend might make that dicey next week.  Calvin, unfortunately looks like they must win the MIAA Tournament to get bid.  But my knowledge here goes no deeper than these 9 teams, so I don't know were they stand exactly.


1 Thomas More 24-0 25-0
2 Hope 23-1 24-1
3 Ohio Northern 22-3 22-3
4 Denison 22-3 22-3
5 Carnegie Mellon 18-6 18-6
6 Bluffton 21-2 23-2
7 Capital 19-6 19-6
8 Rose-Hulman 20-3 22-3
9 La Roche 22-3 22-3

Wondering about Hope's prospects of hosting NCAA first round - if they can win league tournament?  Recalling that they were passed over once or twice in some recent years when they seemed deserving....
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 24, 2016, 03:41:43 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 24, 2016, 03:25:59 PM
Quote from: sac on February 24, 2016, 03:21:31 PM
Hope maintains #2 ranking.  A loss this weekend might make that dicey next week.  Calvin, unfortunately looks like they must win the MIAA Tournament to get bid.  But my knowledge here goes no deeper than these 9 teams, so I don't know were they stand exactly.


1 Thomas More 24-0 25-0
2 Hope 23-1 24-1
3 Ohio Northern 22-3 22-3
4 Denison 22-3 22-3
5 Carnegie Mellon 18-6 18-6
6 Bluffton 21-2 23-2
7 Capital 19-6 19-6
8 Rose-Hulman 20-3 22-3
9 La Roche 22-3 22-3

Wondering about Hope's prospects of hosting NCAA first round - if they can win league tournament?  Recalling that they were passed over once or twice in some recent years when they seemed deserving....

In even numbered years, men have priority on hosting first weekend, so IF the Hope men host, the women won't (but very much up in the air whether or not the men will host).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 24, 2016, 04:08:31 PM
To be honest, the women will probably host. I don't think the men have set themselves up for a hosting chance. That being said... we have been surprised in the past.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 24, 2016, 04:45:27 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 24, 2016, 04:08:31 PM
To be honest, the women will probably host. I don't think the men have set themselves up for a hosting chance. That being said... we have been surprised in the past.

I agree.  The Hope women are more deserving of hosting than the men, and are geographically well situated to take one (or more) of the WIAC Pool C teams.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 24, 2016, 04:50:01 PM
 A loss by Hope this weekend would seem to make hosting a question mark if they have the opportunity.  The women and men don't interpret things the same at all, but another loss closes the gap for ONU and raises the possibility that ONU could move ahead of them.  That would make ONU one of the favorites to host.

current slash lines  win%/SOS/RvRRO's

Hope      .958/.456/1-0
ONU       .880/.530/1-3

A loss on Friday makes Hope's win%  .920, a loss on Saturday .923.  IF ONU were to win the OAC Tournament they would obviously close that gap in Win% some.  I don't know what it would take for the women to interpret these numbers as ONU being ranked higher.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 25, 2016, 01:36:38 AM
The women tend to reward higher WLs than SOS numbers, though Hope hasn't done themselves any favors with that SOS. You certainly raise a good point about it closing the gap. That loss to Calvin last week could ultimately bite Hope.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 25, 2016, 08:26:37 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 25, 2016, 01:36:38 AM
The women tend to reward higher WLs than SOS numbers, though Hope hasn't done themselves any favors with that SOS. You certainly raise a good point about it closing the gap. That loss to Calvin last week could ultimately bite Hope.

It was a loss to Calvin - in the eyes of any Hope fan it can't bite any worse than that  :P
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on February 25, 2016, 10:57:30 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 24, 2016, 03:41:43 PM
In even numbered years, men have priority on hosting first weekend, so IF the Hope men host, the women won't (but very much up in the air whether or not the men will host).
I understood that this year the women would have first dibs on hosting . . . but maybe I'm mistaken?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 25, 2016, 11:55:46 AM
Quote from: pointlem on February 25, 2016, 10:57:30 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 24, 2016, 03:41:43 PM
In even numbered years, men have priority on hosting first weekend, so IF the Hope men host, the women won't (but very much up in the air whether or not the men will host).
I understood that this year the women would have first dibs on hosting . . . but maybe I'm mistaken?

You may have picked that up from d-mac, who has talked about having it backwards much of this year.  He realized his error a few weeks ago.  It looks quite unlikely that the men will host, so that shouldn't be a factor in the women hosting.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 25, 2016, 12:26:17 PM
Quote from: sac on February 24, 2016, 03:21:31 PM
Hope maintains #2 ranking.  A loss this weekend might make that dicey next week.  Calvin, unfortunately looks like they must win the MIAA Tournament to get bid.  But my knowledge here goes no deeper than these 9 teams, so I don't know were they stand exactly.


1 Thomas More 24-0 25-0
2 Hope 23-1 24-1
3 Ohio Northern 22-3 22-3
4 Denison 22-3 22-3
5 Carnegie Mellon 18-6 18-6
6 Bluffton 21-2 23-2
7 Capital 19-6 19-6
8 Rose-Hulman 20-3 22-3
9 La Roche 22-3 22-3

I think you're right here Sac.  Calvin needs to win the MIAA tournament to make the NCAAs.  After those 9 I have the next 4 at:

Wash and Jefferson  .840/.516/1-4
Calvin                     .783/.524/1-3
DePauw                   .760/.513/0-3
Mount Union            .720/.534/3-3

As Dave mentions we do typically see the women's committee put more weight into WL than SOS but they haven't done that with Carnegie Mellon this year. CM has a line of .750/.577/3-4. Their SOS definitely is by far highest in the region and they have played a lot of RRO - mostly just by being in the UAA. Probably fair as to where they are ranked.

I thought we might see Capital fall a bit more than they did this week with their loss.  I thought they would be behind Rose-Hulman, but we're just splitting hairs here.

If the conference #1 seeds win their tournaments we will be looking at this come selection Monday:

Carnegie Mellon (no conference tournament - Pool C as they didn't win their conference)
Capital
Rose-Hulman (tied for conference with Bluffton - Bluffton wins coin flip to host tournament)


So what happens after that?  I believe I know how the process works in the selection of the 19 teams (round by round looking at the top team in each region Pool C eligible, if one gets selected from that region then it's the next one up for the next round).  Will those 4 teams I mention make the list to be put into there (Wash & Jeff, Calvin, DePauw, Mount Union)?  Of course being this far down in the regional rankings will make it hard to get in as their are some other great teams out there that will not win their tournament, but just asking the question on the process for teams just outside the rankings.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HOPEful on February 25, 2016, 12:44:43 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 24, 2016, 04:45:27 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 24, 2016, 04:08:31 PM
To be honest, the women will probably host. I don't think the men have set themselves up for a hosting chance. That being said... we have been surprised in the past.
I agree.  The Hope women are more deserving of hosting than the men, and are geographically well situated to take one (or more) of the WIAC Pool C teams.
Deserving shouldn't play a role in the decision.

Hope's men sit behind Marietta, Ohio Wesleyan, and John Carroll in the most recent Regional rankings. Realistically, only two teams will host. Marietta is a virtual lock to host. OWU, JCU and Hope are about as close as you can get to a tie for second. If OWU gets beat by Wooster/Hiram and JCU loses to Mt. Union or Marietta, Hope could very well host with conference tourney wins against Trine and Alma.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 25, 2016, 12:53:39 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 25, 2016, 11:55:46 AM
Quote from: pointlem on February 25, 2016, 10:57:30 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 24, 2016, 03:41:43 PM
In even numbered years, men have priority on hosting first weekend, so IF the Hope men host, the women won't (but very much up in the air whether or not the men will host).
I understood that this year the women would have first dibs on hosting . . . but maybe I'm mistaken?

You may have picked that up from d-mac, who has talked about having it backwards much of this year.  He realized his error a few weeks ago.  It looks quite unlikely that the men will host, so that shouldn't be a factor in the women hosting.

Yes, I somehow got it backwards awhile back... not sure how and considering I couldn't find confirmation I wasn't able to correct myself earlier. However, we have found the confirmation since and the last 10 days (or week?) or so, I have been trying to correct myself.

MEN have priority opening weekend. WOMEN have priority second weekend.

I will write myself a permanent note in the studio now. LOL :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 25, 2016, 01:19:53 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 25, 2016, 12:26:17 PM
Quote from: sac on February 24, 2016, 03:21:31 PM
Hope maintains #2 ranking.  A loss this weekend might make that dicey next week.  Calvin, unfortunately looks like they must win the MIAA Tournament to get bid.  But my knowledge here goes no deeper than these 9 teams, so I don't know were they stand exactly.


1 Thomas More 24-0 25-0
2 Hope 23-1 24-1
3 Ohio Northern 22-3 22-3
4 Denison 22-3 22-3
5 Carnegie Mellon 18-6 18-6
6 Bluffton 21-2 23-2
7 Capital 19-6 19-6
8 Rose-Hulman 20-3 22-3
9 La Roche 22-3 22-3

I think you're right here Sac.  Calvin needs to win the MIAA tournament to make the NCAAs.  After those 9 I have the next 4 at:

Wash and Jefferson  .840/.516/1-4
Calvin                     .783/.524/1-3
DePauw                   .760/.513/0-3
Mount Union            .720/.534/3-3

As Dave mentions we do typically see the women's committee put more weight into WL than SOS but they haven't done that with Carnegie Mellon this year. CM has a line of .750/.577/3-4. Their SOS definitely is by far highest in the region and they have played a lot of RRO - mostly just by being in the UAA. Probably fair as to where they are ranked.

I thought we might see Capital fall a bit more than they did this week with their loss.  I thought they would be behind Rose-Hulman, but we're just splitting hairs here.

If the conference #1 seeds win their tournaments we will be looking at this come selection Monday:

Carnegie Mellon (no conference tournament - Pool C as they didn't win their conference)
Capital
Rose-Hulman (tied for conference with Bluffton - Bluffton wins coin flip to host tournament)


So what happens after that?  I believe I know how the process works in the selection of the 19 teams (round by round looking at the top team in each region Pool C eligible, if one gets selected from that region then it's the next one up for the next round).  Will those 4 teams I mention make the list to be put into there (Wash & Jeff, Calvin, DePauw, Mount Union)?  Of course being this far down in the regional rankings will make it hard to get in as their are some other great teams out there that will not win their tournament, but just asking the question on the process for teams just outside the rankings.

They rank beyond the 9 that are shown publicly.  For instance Calvin might be #10 or #11,  its just hard to know in exactly what order those teams are.  So its possibly to be ranked say #10 and get to the Pool C table.  But in reality it really isn't all that likely.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 25, 2016, 01:56:09 PM
Yes, they have to ranked beyond the public ones... but the public ones are used only for vRRO and to have an official number. But they have to ranked deeper because there have been times in the past where teams not on the final official regional rankings who have gotten at-large bids.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 25, 2016, 08:22:20 PM
Quote from: sac on February 24, 2016, 04:50:01 PM
A loss by Hope this weekend would seem to make hosting a question mark if they have the opportunity.  The women and men don't interpret things the same at all, but another loss closes the gap for ONU and raises the possibility that ONU could move ahead of them.  That would make ONU one of the favorites to host.

current slash lines  win%/SOS/RvRRO's

Hope      .958/.456/1-0
ONU       .880/.530/1-3

A loss on Friday makes Hope's win%  .920, a loss on Saturday .923.  IF ONU were to win the OAC Tournament they would obviously close that gap in Win% some.  I don't know what it would take for the women to interpret these numbers as ONU being ranked higher.

Maybe this resolves itself.  Lots of game left, but B-W is currently up by 9 over ONU at the half.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 25, 2016, 09:35:27 PM
Baldwin-Wallace did beat ONU 65-58

I guess now the comparison really comes down to Hope and Denison


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 25, 2016, 10:21:53 PM
Hope and Denison slash lines


Hope         .958/.456/1-0
Denison    .880/.541/1-3

Same thing applies to ONU comparison.  The gap in win% would narrow if Hope lost on either day this weekend.   I'm not quite sure why ONU was ranked ahead of Denison.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 26, 2016, 01:40:42 PM
Halftime - Trine 27 Calvin 20 after Calvin closed the half on a 7-0 run (prior to that Calvin was shooting 19% from the field). Great tournament intense basketball thus far.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 26, 2016, 02:09:51 PM
They just don't look like the Knight team that played Hope on Sat.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 26, 2016, 02:44:18 PM
Trine wins 57-45 despite 30 turnovers. Of course Calvin shooting under 20% for the game had a lot to do with that outcome.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 26, 2016, 02:56:42 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 26, 2016, 02:44:18 PM
Trine wins 57-45 despite 30 turnovers. Of course Calvin shooting under 20% for the game had a lot to do with that outcome.

And 3-26 from behind the arc.  I can only imagine how frustrated they must feel.  That's a tough way to end it but hopefully the Knights will reflect back on a solid season of achievement regardless of whether they get an NCAA nod or not.  They lost a lot last year yet have put together a fine season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 26, 2016, 05:22:29 PM
Hope will be without guard Elizabeth Perkins for the rest of the year (possibly she could be back for a national championship game). She sustained multiple fractures to her left hand during the game last Saturday at Calvin. Looks like Madison Geers will be starting in her place.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 26, 2016, 05:38:55 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 26, 2016, 05:22:29 PM
Hope will be without guard Elizabeth Perkins for the rest of the year (possibly she could be back for a national championship game). She sustained multiple fractures to her left hand during the game last Saturday at Calvin. Looks like Madison Geers will be starting in her place.

Wow that's a big blow.  3rd major injury for the Dutch.  Perkins is one of those energizer players and very strong defensively, she will be missed.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 26, 2016, 06:00:41 PM
Wow, as tough a shooting night as Calvin had, the Dutch are topping them.  Shooting a whopping 4% (1-23) midway through the 2bd, down 25-6.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 26, 2016, 06:16:30 PM
29-18 Olivet at the half. Hope made its first 2pt field goal with 1:10 left in the first half. 3-15 from 3 and 2-20 from 2. Can't get much worse than that. Expect a significantly different second half.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 26, 2016, 07:24:13 PM
Amazing 2nd half by Hope - especially the 4th quarter in which Hope out scored the Comets 29-11. McAfee showed why she's the MVP with 28 & 13reb , including 22 in the 2nd half. Several monster 3s by Traversa put the win away.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 27, 2016, 12:36:34 AM
I'm not quite sure how you collectively shoot 27.6% as a team and overcome a 19 point deficit but Hope managed to do that.    Can only think of one comeback better and that one was in 1990 when Hope won their first National Championship down 16 late in the 2nd half.

That was one astounding turnaround.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on February 27, 2016, 08:53:55 AM
Good luck today Trine U!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 29, 2016, 02:43:14 PM
Hope women are hosting!!!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 29, 2016, 04:47:01 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 29, 2016, 02:43:14 PM
Hope women are hosting!!!!!

Hope plays Carnegie Mellon in the first round.  The only common opponent this year was Bethany, WV.  CMU won December 7th at Bethany 70-57 with top 6 players in the CMU rotation all playing 27 or more minutes.  Hope hosted Bethany on November 21 and blew them out 102-44 with no starter playing more than 17 minutes and all 13 on the roster playing at least 10 minutes.

Based on this one game it would be easy to assume Hope could win comfortably.  However CMU plays in the UAA, arguably the top league in the country, and has had tough games virtually every night during their conference season.  I expect them to play Hope tough.  Plus they boast 6' 1" F/C Lisa Murphy who led the nation in FG % at 75%  (!!!!) and averaged 23/11.  Could be a real headache especially if McAfee gets into foul trouble.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 02, 2016, 04:31:02 PM
Stat comparison of Hope & Carnegie Mellon.  Side note - the largest crowd CM has played in front of this year was 515, so hat they encounter on Friday night could be a bit intimidating.


Offense     % 2pt   % 3pt      % FT
Hope     46.7   33.7      67.7
Carnegie Mellon     51.3   32.6      73.3
            
Defense     % 2pt   % 3pt     
Hope     36.6   28.5     
Carnegie Mellon     35.9   33.6     
            
Rebounding     Team   Opp      Margin
Hope     47.4   34.7      12.7
Carnegie Mellon     47   34.2      12.8
            
Scoring     Team   Opp      Margin
Hope     80.3   52.9      27.4
Carnegie Mellon     75.6   64.3      11.3
            
3 point shooting     Attempts   Made      Made/game
Hope     495   167      6.2
Carnegie Mellon     377   123      4.9
            
Blocks     Total   per game     
Hope     101   3.7     
Carnegie Mellon     165   6.6     
            
Steals     Total   per game     
Hope     364   13.5     
Carnegie Mellon     140   5.6     
            
Turnovers     Total    per game     
Hope     399   14.8     
Carnegie Mellon     448   17.9     
            
Assists     Total   per game     
Hope     442   16.4     
Carnegie Mellon     444   17.8     
            
Assist/Turnover             
Hope     1.11        
Carnegie Mellon     0.99        
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 07, 2016, 02:59:06 PM
Sad to have such a heartbreaking loss end such a good season by the Dutch.  Maura and Autumn end their careers at Hope with a pretty special 4 years, accumulating a record of 108-10.  Maura's name will be in the career top10 record books for a long time:

#3 in Points (1409)
#2 in FG Made (566)
#3 in FG Attempts (1145)
#3 (tied ) in FT Made (268)
#7 in FT Attempts (375)
#1 in Total Rebounds (1047)
#1 in Def Rebounds (682)
#3 in Off Rebounds (365)
#2 in Blocks (166)
#3 (tied) in Steals (222)

And 44 career double-doubles
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on March 08, 2016, 04:12:21 PM
Calvin's women's head basketball coach, John Ross, has decided to step down:

http://www.calvinknights.com/sports/wbkb/2015-16/releases/20160308njf1pa
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 14, 2016, 02:18:32 PM
All-Region teams have been announced.

Maura McAfee, Hope - 1st team
Anna Timmer, Calvin - 2nd team
Bre Luurtsema, Calvin - 3rd team

http://www.d3hoops.com/awards/all-region/2015-16/index
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on April 01, 2016, 01:16:55 PM
Any update on the search for a new Calvin women's bbal coach?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on May 19, 2016, 04:10:58 PM
Calvin's new women's coach
http://calvinknights.com/sports/wbkb/2015-16/releases/20160519l2e00l

I am probably going to call him "Babe" by accident a few dozen times.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on May 19, 2016, 05:20:27 PM
He's a good program builder and did a nice job at Hendrix and Millsaps. It doesn't sound like he has any connection to that area, though. Will that impact Calvin's recruiting?

By the way, Millsaps played at the D3hoops.com Classic last year, but was probably gone before the Calvin men arrived. Here's our recorded interview with Calvin's new head coach.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JfbDNjHaRw
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on May 19, 2016, 08:42:00 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on May 19, 2016, 05:20:27 PM
He's a good program builder and did a nice job at Hendrix and Millsaps. It doesn't sound like he has any connection to that area, though. Will that impact Calvin's recruiting?

By the way, Millsaps played at the D3hoops.com Classic last year, but was probably gone before the Calvin men arrived. Here's our recorded interview with Calvin's new head coach.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JfbDNjHaRw

Winkelman has no Calvin connection at all, but it seems unlikely to me that recruiting to the school will be a problem. John Ross had no previous connection to Calvin either. Winkelman is a very experienced D3 coach with a great resume and moved to the head of a very large class to win the job. Over 100 applications were received and while many of them undoubtedly weren't worth looking at, that kind of interest tells me there were plenty of good choices. Given that AD Jim Timmer was involved in the hiring process and has a daughter who will play for the new coach, I have to believe this is a great hire.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on October 20, 2016, 01:25:09 AM
Olivet has hired Zach Ingles as its women's coach  http://www.olivetcomets.com/sports/wbkb/coaches/InglesZach?view=bio
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on October 24, 2016, 10:18:41 PM
Hope rosters

Varsity:  http://athletics.hope.edu/sports/wbkb/2016-17/roster

JV:  http://athletics.hope.edu/sports/wbkb/2016-17/jvroster
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on October 25, 2016, 06:40:44 PM
Calvin's roster is up:

http://www.calvinknights.com/sports/wbkb/2016-17/roster
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on October 26, 2016, 07:00:11 PM
Trine's WBB 2016-17 roster:

http://www.trinethunder.com/sports/wbkb/2016-17/roster

Return 4 starters from MIAA tournament runners up last year:

Hayley Martin - 2nd team MIAA
Brandi Dawson - 2nd team MIAA
Taylor Cole
Ashley Elliott

Shelby Oldham, Montana Martin, and Cassidy Williams all played a lot last year as freshmen.

6 newcomers to the roster, 3 transfers and 3 freshmen.  I've seen Tashayla Sutorious play a couple times in Fort Wayne against my niece's team.  She can hoop!  I think she had at one time committed to Chicago State.  Kayla Freeman, I've seen some videos, pretty impressive.  And I've heard good reports about Katy Steers. 

Should be a deep team, maybe one that can break up the Hope/Calvin domination this year?  Can't wait to see them play, along with the Trine MBB team.  Exciting things happening at Trine U.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on October 27, 2016, 12:09:22 AM
Preseason women's poll released. Hope is No. 13 and Calvin receiving votes.

http://d3hoops.com/top25/women/2016-17/preseason
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on October 27, 2016, 02:40:43 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on October 26, 2016, 07:00:11 PM
Trine's WBB 2016-17 roster:

http://www.trinethunder.com/sports/wbkb/2016-17/roster

Return 4 starters from MIAA tournament runners up last year:

Hayley Martin - 2nd team MIAA
Brandi Dawson - 2nd team MIAA
Taylor Cole
Ashley Elliott

Shelby Oldham, Montana Martin, and Cassidy Williams all played a lot last year as freshmen.

6 newcomers to the roster, 3 transfers and 3 freshmen.  I've seen Tashayla Sutorious play a couple times in Fort Wayne against my niece's team.  She can hoop!  I think she had at one time committed to Chicago State.  Kayla Freeman, I've seen some videos, pretty impressive.  And I've heard good reports about Katy Steers. 

Should be a deep team, maybe one that can break up the Hope/Calvin domination this year?  Can't wait to see them play, along with the Trine MBB team.  Exciting things happening at Trine U.

I would agree, Trine is going to be tough.  I think the MIAA is a toss up this year between Trine, Calvin and Hope.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 08, 2016, 08:29:48 AM
Not much chatter here.  I have not been able to attend, any insights from scrimmages?  How about impactful newcomers?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on November 08, 2016, 07:29:26 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on November 08, 2016, 08:29:48 AM
Not much chatter here.  I have not been able to attend, any insights from scrimmages?  How about impactful newcomers?
Trine women have an exhibition game next Monday night against IPFW.  Should get a good idea of what players will be in the rotation, both returnees and newcomers.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on November 14, 2016, 08:11:36 PM
Trine 80 Ft Wayne (IPFW) 71

Nice win for Trine over Division I Ft Wayne.  Haley Martin with 20 and Brandi Dawson with 19 to lead Trine.  Freshman Katy Steers with 10, Cassidy Williams and Ashley Elliott with 9 each.  In all 12 gals played which included 4 newcomers.  Good confidence booster beating a DI school on their home court.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on November 15, 2016, 12:31:50 AM
Yeah, how about that? Don't know how many people will see it, but we gave them props on our Facebook page.

I think Trine should assume the nickname Mastodons for the rest of the season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Winifred Durfee on November 15, 2016, 03:49:20 PM
The Hope women open the season at home tonight against Wheaton. If you can't make it to Devos, the game can be watched here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oxEKiBeXLI

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: monsoon on November 15, 2016, 08:57:15 PM

Hope       99
Wheaton  97 (ot)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 16, 2016, 12:40:16 AM
Heck of a game by Hope and Wheaton last night, here's the winning shot.  Couldn't believe Hope closed a 19 point margin in the 2nd half.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqPsmbweN4Q
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 17, 2016, 03:58:17 PM
The opening day of the 2015-16 basketball season started with a bang. The NCAA announcing major violations by Thomas More which resulted in vacating the entire 2014-15 season including the national championship - the first time in the history of Division III basketball, men or women. Tonight on Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com), continuing coverage of the fallout of that decision including an exclusive one-on-one interview with Coach Jeff Hans of Thomas More.

Plus we take a look at the start of the season and talk with Claremont-Mudd-Scripps women's basketball who is no longer flying under the radar. We also talk to the Trine women who want to take control of the MIAA. Plus we hear from two men's coaches starting anew at Case Western Reserve and SUNY-Canton.

Hoopsville airs live starting at 7:00 PM ET. You can watch the show here: http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2016-17/nov17

Guests include:
- Adam Turer, Editor and Contributor for D3hoops.com
- Jeff Hans, No. 4 Thomas More women's head coach (exclusive interview)
- Kristen Dowling, No. 24 Claremont-Mudd-Scripps women's head coach
- Ryan Gould, Trine women's head coach
- Ben Thompson, SUNY Canton men's head coach
- Todd McGuinness, Case Western Reserve men's head coach
- Jeff Burns, Randolph-Macon athletics director (former men's basketball committee chair)

You can also tune into the podcast(s) after the show has aired:
SoundCloud: www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville
iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hoopsville/id1059517087

Don't forget you can always interact with us:
Website: www.d3hoopsville.com
Twitter: @d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) or #Hoopsville
Facebook: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville
Email: hoopsville@d3hoops.com
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/d3hoopsville
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 19, 2016, 11:29:18 AM
I believe Hope's rebounding margin last night (67-33, +34) was a DeVos record.  That said, I don't think this team rebounds as well as last year with Maura McAfee's graduation being the obvious difference.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on November 27, 2016, 03:03:13 AM
Any explanation for the absence of Francesca Buchanan from yesterday's game? She is such a key part of this year's team, that I hope for her and the team's sake that she's not seriously injured.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 27, 2016, 05:35:57 AM
Quote from: pointlem on November 27, 2016, 03:03:13 AM
Any explanation for the absence of Francesca Buchanan from yesterday's game? She is such a key part of this year's team, that I hope for her and the team's sake that she's not seriously injured.

Not injured, it was reported the she was kept out due to flu-like symptoms.  Hope she is back for the Calvin game Wednesday.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 30, 2016, 11:06:09 AM
An early Rivalry game this year with Hope hosting Calvin at DeVos.  Both teams are undefeated with Hope 5-0 and ranked #10 and Calvin 6-0 and breaking into the rankings at #24.

I'd give Hope the edge especially being at DeVos, unless Buchanan is still sidelined in which case I think its a toss up.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on November 30, 2016, 05:41:17 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on November 30, 2016, 11:06:09 AM
An early Rivalry game this year with Hope hosting Calvin at DeVos.  Both teams are undefeated with Hope 5-0 and ranked #10 and Calvin 6-0 and breaking into the rankings at #24.

I'd give Hope the edge especially being at DeVos, unless Buchanan is still sidelined in which case I think its a toss up.

Calvin has a new coach and a whole new system. The players are hard at work learning lots of new plays, defensive schemes, and the like. In addition, Calvin is working in a couple of freshmen and a sophomore who didn't play much last year.

I think it'll be some time before we see Calvin's potential. Right now they've got a lot to work through.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on November 30, 2016, 07:00:46 PM
Can anyone shed light on why Celina King has not been dressing for games recently?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on November 30, 2016, 08:22:03 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on November 30, 2016, 07:00:46 PM
Can anyone shed light on why Celina King has not been dressing for games recently?
The word in the stands is that she's getting over a lingering illness.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 30, 2016, 09:18:58 PM
Quote from: Dark Knight on November 30, 2016, 05:41:17 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on November 30, 2016, 11:06:09 AM
An early Rivalry game this year with Hope hosting Calvin at DeVos.  Both teams are undefeated with Hope 5-0 and ranked #10 and Calvin 6-0 and breaking into the rankings at #24.

I'd give Hope the edge especially being at DeVos, unless Buchanan is still sidelined in which case I think its a toss up.

Calvin has a new coach and a whole new system. The players are hard at work learning lots of new plays, defensive schemes, and the like. In addition, Calvin is working in a couple of freshmen and a sophomore who didn't play much last year.

I think it'll be some time before we see Calvin's potential. Right now they've got a lot to work through.


Well, I guess you had it right.  Calvin had an unblemished record and large winning margins, but you make good points and the teams they've played this year were not strong.  Nevertheless, I can see the potential and Timmer and Spayde are very good already.  Huge games tonight from Spayde for Calvin and a career game from Perkins for Hope. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on November 30, 2016, 10:05:29 PM
Amazing statistic:  Bench points . . . Calvin 4, Hope 49 . . . partly reflecting huge games by Spayde (Calvin starter) and Perkins (Hope bench)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on December 01, 2016, 12:17:29 PM
I was watching on mute, but what happened with that technical in the 2nd half??? Calvin player makes a stumbling layup, turns to run down the court and runs into a stationary, arms-at-side Hope player....Hope gets the T....Calvin ends up making 2 FTs and not scoring again on that possession, so turned out to not influence the game....but in a close game could've been an 8-pt swing and a massive change in momentum.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on December 01, 2016, 01:30:57 PM
I think you'd have to take a closer look again to realize the arms were not at the side of the player the tech was called on.  There was a pretty big push that caused the fall to happen.  I think the refs got it right here.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on December 09, 2016, 10:40:36 AM
Wow - just looked at the MIAA stats and Calvin starters are all in top 20 in average minutes played.  Might be "tired out" by end of season at this rate.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on December 10, 2016, 02:55:42 PM
Watching Alma vs Hope warmups on video, looks like Perkins has a left leg injury. Anyone know what the problem is?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on December 17, 2016, 05:06:22 PM
Not a very pretty game at Devos today, with Hope beating UW Stevens Point 56-50.  Hope was pretty much in control the 2nd hald but I can't remember the last time I saw a Flying Dutch team outrebounded by 21, shoot 27%, miss a handful of free throws in the last minutes - and still win.  UWSP shot even a bit worse and the big difference was turnovers, with UWSP turning it over 24 times to Hope's 7.  Classic example of how when the ball isn't going in, good defense and ball management can still win it for you.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on December 29, 2016, 12:51:05 PM
Big game for Hope tonight vs #3 St. Thomas at Bluffton's tournament.  St. Thomas has the higher ranking and I'd have to give them the edge here.  The Dutch have been uncharacteristically outrebounded in several games recently; they have to play St. Thomas at least even on the boards in order to have a chance IMO.  Still not sure what's up with Elizabeth Perkins, she hasn't played in several weeks after beginning to really round into form coming off of soccer season.  She had 28 vs Calvin and is a high energy sparkplug for Hope especially on defense, they really could use her on the floor today.  Anyone hear anything more about her status?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on December 29, 2016, 01:54:34 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on December 29, 2016, 12:51:05 PM
Big game for Hope tonight vs #3 St. Thomas at Bluffton's tournament.  St. Thomas has the higher ranking and I'd have to give them the edge here.  The Dutch have been uncharacteristically outrebounded in several games recently; they have to play St. Thomas at least even on the boards in order to have a chance IMO.  Still not sure what's up with Elizabeth Perkins, she hasn't played in several weeks after beginning to really round into form coming off of soccer season.  She had 28 vs Calvin and is a high energy sparkplug for Hope especially on defense, they really could use her on the floor today.  Anyone hear anything more about her status?
Good comments, Roundball.  Hope misses Maura McAfee on the boards.

Massey predicts Saint Thomas 72, Hope 68.

Hopefully Victoria Swift's gaining strength (after her return from last year's injury) can help replace Elizabeth Perkins and Celina King, both of whom appear to be out for the season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 29, 2016, 03:17:33 PM
Elizabeth Perkins is indeed out for the year with a knee issue (I think it's an ACL but not positive).  Not sure about Celina King - but if she is I would think red shirting might be an option for her.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Darryl Nester on December 29, 2016, 04:30:18 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on December 29, 2016, 03:17:33 PM
Elizabeth Perkins is indeed out for the year with a knee issue (I think it's an ACL but not positive).  Not sure about Celina King - but if she is I would think red shirting might be an option for her.

I'm courtside at this game and I can confirm that King is not dressed.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on December 29, 2016, 05:48:58 PM
Quote from: Darryl Nester on December 29, 2016, 04:30:18 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on December 29, 2016, 03:17:33 PM
Elizabeth Perkins is indeed out for the year with a knee issue (I think it's an ACL but not positive).  Not sure about Celina King - but if she is I would think red shirting might be an option for her.

I'm courtside at this game and I can confirm that King is not dressed.
There was a note in the local paper that Celina King is redshirting.  Any word on Angelique Gaddy?  Tough for Hope to be playing this big game w/o their star point guard.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on December 29, 2016, 07:31:32 PM
Quote from: pointlem on December 29, 2016, 05:48:58 PM
Quote from: Darryl Nester on December 29, 2016, 04:30:18 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on December 29, 2016, 03:17:33 PM
Elizabeth Perkins is indeed out for the year with a knee issue (I think it's an ACL but not positive).  Not sure about Celina King - but if she is I would think red shirting might be an option for her.

I'm courtside at this game and I can confirm that King is not dressed.
There was a note in the local paper that Celina King is redshirting.  Any word on Angelique Gaddy?  Tough for Hope to be playing this big game w/o their star point guard.

Wow, if Hope did play without Gaddy (and Perkins), I'd have to think they put forth an outstanding effort against a team as good as St. Thomas.  Gaddy is a special player, not many women's point guards at this level can drive and hit a pull up jumper like she can. One can only wonder what might have been had she not lost most of two seasons with two separate ACLs.  Here's hoping that her current injury is not too serious.  Best wishes also to Elizabeth Perkins, sounds as if she may have played her last hoops for Hope.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 29, 2016, 09:50:28 PM
Word is that Gaddy twisted an ankle in practice earlier this week. Hopefully this is just a short term issue
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Darryl Nester on December 29, 2016, 10:22:07 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on December 29, 2016, 09:50:28 PM
Word is that Gaddy twisted an ankle in practice earlier this week. Hopefully this is just a short term issue

I did not see any obvious limping during her brief time (3 minutes in Q3) on the floor tonight, so I expect she'll be back before long. I would guess if she is at all sore, she won't play tomorrow (I don't think they'll need her to beat Centre in the consolation game).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Darryl Nester on December 30, 2016, 12:48:11 PM
Quote from: Darryl Nester on December 29, 2016, 10:22:07 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on December 29, 2016, 09:50:28 PM
Word is that Gaddy twisted an ankle in practice earlier this week. Hopefully this is just a short term issue

I did not see any obvious limping during her brief time (3 minutes in Q3) on the floor tonight, so I expect she'll be back before long. I would guess if she is at all sore, she won't play tomorrow (I don't think they'll need her to beat Centre in the consolation game).
It's now halftime, and Hope leads 42-11. Every one of Hope's dressed players has played except for Gaddy. My guess is that's how things will continue.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on January 03, 2017, 06:50:16 PM
Big game in Angola tomorrow night:  Calvin at Trine 6pm (followed by Calvin/Trine MBB).

Calvin 25th in latest DIII poll with Trine receiving some votes.

Trine is playing well, and so is Calvin.  Trine maybe a little deeper bench.  Beating a Hope or Calvin is always a signature win for rest of MIAA. 

Good luck Thunder!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 03, 2017, 07:47:30 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on January 03, 2017, 06:50:16 PM
Big game in Angola tomorrow night:  Calvin at Trine 6pm (followed by Calvin/Trine MBB).

Calvin 25th in latest DIII poll with Trine receiving some votes.

Trine is playing well, and so is Calvin.  Trine maybe a little deeper bench.  Beating a Hope or Calvin is always a signature win for rest of MIAA. 

Good luck Thunder!!

I'd give the Thunder an edge in this game, especially at home.  Trine is looking tough, such as their nice win over a good Albion team on their court, while I think Calvin's schedule has been fairly soft other than the Hope game.  In any case, it should be a very revealing game into whether the Thunder can break the Hope/Calvin stranglehold at the top of the league.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on January 04, 2017, 01:31:29 PM
Trine is a really tough place to play too.  Long trip, old gym, enthusiastic fans. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 04, 2017, 01:35:14 PM
*sigh*   gym built in the 70's is considered 'old'.   *sigh* I was built in the 70's
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on January 04, 2017, 05:09:20 PM
Quote from: sac on January 04, 2017, 01:35:14 PM
*sigh*   gym built in the 70's is considered 'old'.   *sigh* I was built in the 70's

You're a young'un SAC.  I was built in the 60's...getting close to vintage age.

Last MIAA season for the "old gal" at Trine though...MTI Center supposed to be done in time for 2018 MIAA play.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on January 04, 2017, 10:30:03 PM
Nice win for the Lady Thunder tonight.  This team just has a lot of grit.  They could have gotten down when Calvin tied the game up at the end of regulation and also with Haley Martin fouling out on the 3 pt play to tie it.  However, they regrouped and kept on doing what they know best.  Play DEFENSE.  I've never seen a woman's team play defense like this Thunder team can.  To hold a good shooting high scoring team like Calvin down says a lot.  This Thunder team is well coached and you can tell they enjoy each other, no egos at all.  If they can knock off Adrian at home Saturday maybe the DIII pollsters will give this team some Top 25 love.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on January 09, 2017, 07:33:11 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on January 04, 2017, 10:30:03 PM
Nice win for the Lady Thunder tonight.  This team just has a lot of grit.  They could have gotten down when Calvin tied the game up at the end of regulation and also with Haley Martin fouling out on the 3 pt play to tie it.  However, they regrouped and kept on doing what they know best.  Play DEFENSE.  I've never seen a woman's team play defense like this Thunder team can.  To hold a good shooting high scoring team like Calvin down says a lot.  This Thunder team is well coached and you can tell they enjoy each other, no egos at all.  If they can knock off Adrian at home Saturday maybe the DIII pollsters will give this team some Top 25 love.

New poll release today, Trine comes in at #25.  I am guessing this is a first for the Lady Thunder in NCAA DIII play.  Keep working girls, this is such a fun team to watch!

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 10, 2017, 06:16:42 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on January 09, 2017, 07:33:11 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on January 04, 2017, 10:30:03 PM
Nice win for the Lady Thunder tonight.  This team just has a lot of grit.  They could have gotten down when Calvin tied the game up at the end of regulation and also with Haley Martin fouling out on the 3 pt play to tie it.  However, they regrouped and kept on doing what they know best.  Play DEFENSE.  I've never seen a woman's team play defense like this Thunder team can.  To hold a good shooting high scoring team like Calvin down says a lot.  This Thunder team is well coached and you can tell they enjoy each other, no egos at all.  If they can knock off Adrian at home Saturday maybe the DIII pollsters will give this team some Top 25 love.

New poll release today, Trine comes in at #25.  I am guessing this is a first for the Lady Thunder in NCAA DIII play.  Keep working girls, this is such a fun team to watch!



Nice to see another MIAA team represented in the polls, they've certainly earned it this year.  Big game next Wednesday with Hope at the Thunder, a win there would give the Thunder the inside track to the regular season title!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 12, 2017, 12:02:00 PM
Heard that Hope's Liz Perkins had knee surgery yesterday.  Best wishes to this outstanding young woman, MIAA MVP and 1st Team Academic All American in women's soccer and she started out her senior basketball season with a league player of the week recognition before her injury.  The Dutch hoops team will miss her energy and athleticism on the court but her spirit remains with them on the bench.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 13, 2017, 12:29:26 AM
Usually I make sure to alert people of who is on Hoopsville prior to the show. Unfortunately, Thursday was a challenge production wise and I was a bit distracted. So, I hope you don't mind finding out after the fact considering you can watch the show On Demand or listen to the podcast(s).

As the season turns from the first to the second half, we are starting to see which teams are doing more than just getting off to good starts. Now conference races are starting to take shape and we get an idea of how the rest of the season may play out.

On Thursday's edition of Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com), Dave chatted with several coaches whose teams are either leading their conferences or in the battle for first place. Are these teams going to still be near the top come late February? What do they have to do to maintain their level of success. Dave even hit the road to Washington, DC to chat with several of his guests.

Dave also talked to a coach who now has the second-most wins in Division III history. Wooster's Steve Moore won his 787th (700th at Wooster) Wednesday night. Moore joined Dave in the NABC Coach's Corner to discuss the incredible milestone and all the milestones along the way.

You can watch Hoopsville On Demand or listen to the podcast by downloading it from SoundCloud and iTunes by clicking here: http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2016-17/jan12

And don't forget about the Hoopsville Mailbag segment! Email questions you may have to the show at hoopsville@d3hoops.com and we will answer them on a future show.

Guest appearances (in order):
- Steve Moore, Wooster men's coach - NABC Coach's Corner
- Kevin Kovacs, Gallaudet men's coach
- Matt Donohue, Catholic women's coach
- Chuck Winkelman, Calvin women's coach
- Dale Wellman, Nebraska Wesleyan men's coach

You can also tune into the podcast(s) after the show has aired:
SoundCloud: www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville
iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hoopsville/id1059517087

Don't forget you can always interact with us:
Website: www.d3hoopsville.com
Twitter: @d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) or #Hoopsville
Facebook: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville
Email: hoopsville@d3hoops.com
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/d3hoopsville
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 13, 2017, 02:11:06 PM
Just listened to the podcast of last night's Hoopsville. Chuck Winkelman was delightful to listen to. He really seems to be enjoying his time at Calvin so far.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 15, 2017, 03:30:04 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 13, 2017, 02:11:06 PM
Just listened to the podcast of last night's Hoopsville. Chuck Winkelman was delightful to listen to. He really seems to be enjoying his time at Calvin so far.

I would agree with you. Very upbeat.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on January 15, 2017, 08:26:57 PM
Showdown in Angola this Wednesday night when Hope visits Trine for first place in the MIAA.

Trine is playing very well, but Hope is extremely talented so this will be a test for the Thunder to see if we can hang with them.  Trine absolutely destroyed Alma in the first half Saturday, then sorta lost interest the second half, plus Alma played better but it still was a 25-30 pt game.  Besides the usual good play form Hayley Martin and Brandi Dawson, Trine is getting solid play off the bench led by Montana Martin.  She is a big guard, 5'11 who can hit the 3 and also take it to the hole.  Cassidy Williams has also played well for Trine, especially against Calvin where she carried us in OT.

Students are back in school Tuesday this week so the game atmosphere should be electric with the Blue Crew, band and cheerleaders in the house.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 16, 2017, 05:19:51 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on January 15, 2017, 08:26:57 PM
Showdown in Angola this Wednesday night when Hope visits Trine for first place in the MIAA.

Trine is playing very well, but Hope is extremely talented so this will be a test for the Thunder to see if we can hang with them.  Trine absolutely destroyed Alma in the first half Saturday, then sorta lost interest the second half, plus Alma played better but it still was a 25-30 pt game.  Besides the usual good play form Hayley Martin and Brandi Dawson, Trine is getting solid play off the bench led by Montana Martin.  She is a big guard, 5'11 who can hit the 3 and also take it to the hole.  Cassidy Williams has also played well for Trine, especially against Calvin where she carried us in OT.

Students are back in school Tuesday this week so the game atmosphere should be electric with the Blue Crew, band and cheerleaders in the house.

Massey has Trine winning by two, sounds about right to me.  Actually, I might give them a slightly bigger edge playing on their home court.  I think this is the game where Hope's relatively weak rebounding bites them and Trine is playing very well night after night.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on January 16, 2017, 04:18:51 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 13, 2017, 02:11:06 PM
Just listened to the podcast of last night's Hoopsville. Chuck Winkelman was delightful to listen to. He really seems to be enjoying his time at Calvin so far.
Hopefully in the not to distant future we can hear a new Calvin men's coach echo those sentiments. :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on January 18, 2017, 09:54:50 PM
Hope 76 Trine 65

Great effort by the Trine ladies, but just too much depth and shooting for Hope.  Close game until the 4th quarter when Hope pulled away.  Trine started to run out of gas, missed shots, hung their heads, and you can't do that against a Hope squad who is so well coached.  I came away very impressed by Hope, I think they are a squad that is going to be hard to beat not only in the MIAA, but in the post season tournament.

Some game observations:

*Trine prides itself on defense, but Hope's offense is like a machine.  Other than a few possessions in the 1st half, I thought we never made Hope uncomfortable running their offense.  Actually I came away more impressed with Hope's defense.  They forced a ton of turnovers by Trine.  Not many post players can play like Trine's Haley Martin, but Buchanan is every bit as good as Martin.  Her defense was really good, and you could tell that was a point of emphasis for Hope to try take Haley out of the game.  And Buchanan can run the floor, she had a couple bunnies just from beating Martin down the court.

*Hope can shoot it, the difference tonight was 3pt shooting, not sure if that is the norm for them?  And it's not just one girl, they all can shoot it if you give them an open look.  They hit a lot of daggars in the 2nd half when you thought Trine would make a game of it.

*Best player on the court tonight was Brandi Dawson of Trine.  Finished with game high 33 pts.  She was pretty much unstoppable, but most of her offense was dribble drive to the bucket, or clear outs and let her create.  But other than a solid performance off the bench by Ashley Elliott no one else on Trine stood out.  We needed better games from Steers and Williams and they just didn't have it tonight.  Too many drives to the basket that we couldn't finish.

*Great turnout of fans.  The students filled up the entire lower west side of the stands, never seen that before, usually just half.  I imagine close to or over 1000 at the game, even opened up the upper arena on the east side.

Disappointing result for the Trine ladies, hopefully this won't take away their confidence.  Just came away very impressed with Hope.  Talent wise players 1 thru 9 no other team can match that. Trine and Calvin has good talent, but it's the depth of Hope's team that sets them apart from the rest of the league.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 19, 2017, 05:33:41 AM
Similarly impressed by Trine.  It was going to take Hope's "A" game to win and they had it tonight.  As you said, Dawson was amazing but it was Hope's balance and depth that carried that day.

Yes, 3 point shooting is a key part of Hope's offense this year, they've fallen off a bit but earlier in the year they were in the top 3 nationally in team 3 point percentage.  Just about everyone except Buchanan will shoot it.  Even backup post will launch and a few.

Trine has a very solid team and I think will contend for tournament championship and/or at large NCAA bid.  I just don't see them losing in the league again other than to Hope and perhaps Calvin.  They are a tough out for anyone they play.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on January 25, 2017, 10:47:55 PM
Wow, I see Hope lost at Albion.  That is very surprising, seeing the way they played at Trine I would have thought they would cruise thru the MIAA.  Box score shows they had a bad shooting night, especially from 3.  Albion is a dangerous team, they've played everyone tight and won the games they should win.  Trine gets them at home this Saturday in what is going to be a huge game for both teams.

Speaking of Trine, after a slow start, the girls ramped it up and played well in cruising past Saint Mary's at home.  Dawson seemed "uninspired" tonight, not a good one for her, but everyone else did ok. 

Saint Mary's just doesn't have the talent and are lacking quickness and size.  Heart wrenching sequence for them early in the 4th quarter as 2 of their girls went down with what looked like knee injuries not more than 1 minute apart.  It was very sad, never want to see anyone get hurt.  My thoughts and prayers go out the girls and team. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 26, 2017, 05:33:37 AM
Sad to hear about the injuries to the St Mary's girls, hope they are not too serious. 

Not too surprised about the Hope women.  Albion is good and their gym is a tough place to play.  Hope doesn't dominate the boards as they have in recent years and they are giving up quite a few more points too.  They have been one of the nation's top three point shooting teams this year but if they have an off night as they did last night, their rebounding and defense is less likely to bail them out this year.

So there is still a race in the MIAA!

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on January 26, 2017, 07:25:31 AM
Wow - what a great performance by Albion.  Another tough place to play.  It is also great to see the parity in MIAA.  Hope and Trine tied and it looks like Calvin barely beat Alma.  If Hope had a tough shooting night, Calvin looks like had an even tougher shooting night.

You got to love it.  Big next week for Calvin, plays both Hope and Trine so they will have their chance.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on January 30, 2017, 08:21:29 AM
I did not see Lurtsema from Calvin in box score.  Is she hurt?  Will she be back for Hope this week?

That would be a miss, she is tough on floor
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on January 30, 2017, 07:17:18 PM
Another big week for post season tournament seeding.  Calvin has Hope Wednesday and Trine on Saturday, a sweep by Calvin would put them in a 3way tie for first with Hope and Trine.  I will have to root for Calvin Wednesday and then see if the Trine gals can get a big road win Saturday, which would put them in 1st place alone in the conference.

Trine with a suffocating defensive performance last Saturday afternoon against Albion.  Held them to single digit scoring in each of the first 3 quarters.  Cassidy Williams really keys their defense, when she gets after it the whole team ramps it up.  Very few open looks for Albion.  Turnovers led to runout layups by the Trine women.  Just a solid overall performance against a confident Albion squad who had knocked off Hope earlier in the week.  Only negative from the game is a couple key bench players for Trine, Montana Martin and Tashayla Sutorius came down with ankle injuries in the 2nd half, not sure of the severity of either.  Good news is Trine has a very bad Illinois Tech team visiting Wednesday night so I'm sure they won't be needed, but to beat Calvin the depth of Trine needs to come thru.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on February 01, 2017, 01:57:39 PM
My two favorite Hope/Calvin women's game memories are the two with the last second shots for the Calvin wins.

One took them to the Tourney and one was a long awaited win at DeVos.

Go Kinghts!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 01, 2017, 02:15:32 PM
Quote from: bballforever on February 01, 2017, 01:57:39 PM
My two favorite Hope/Calvin women's game memories are the two with the last second shots for the Calvin wins.

One took them to the Tourney and one was a long awaited win at DeVos.

Go Kinghts!!!

I'm thinking this one is a tossup, maybe slight edge to the Knights.  Hope won the first game easily, but that was at Devos and early in the season under a new Knights coach.  Also, Liz Perkins had a career game on offense for the Dutch, was one of their best defenders, but is now lost to an ACL surgery.  Hope has been a strong 3-point shooting team this year but as the Albion loss showed, if the Dutch have an off night from behind the arc then I think the Knights can walk away with it.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on February 01, 2017, 05:29:49 PM
Illinois Tech game at Trine tonight has been cancelled and won't be made up.  Per the article on Trine's athletics website Illinois Tech doesn't have enough healthy players to fill out a roster and have not made the trip to Angola.  So the gals get more time to prepare for Calvin Saturday.  I am hoping they don't get off to a sluggish start by not having a midweek game, so won't be surprised if Calvin has a strong start to Saturday's game. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on February 01, 2017, 09:20:04 PM
Not impressed with Calvin's high camera angle or fuzzy picture.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 02, 2017, 07:07:26 AM
Quote from: jspiii on February 01, 2017, 09:20:04 PM
Not impressed with Calvin's high camera angle or fuzzy picture.

Could be worse, I tried to get the final score from the game at Cazenovia last night (since they didn't post it), but their camera angle not only has the scoreboard covered by the backboard, but it also cuts off the corner of the court, so half of one team's offense is invisible during play.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: lmitzel on February 02, 2017, 08:01:20 AM
I posted something about this over on the CCIW board because of her ties to North Central College, but congratulations to Emily Zgoda on her record breaking performance for Albion last night.

http://www.mlive.com/sports/jackson/index.ssf/2017/02/one_for_albions_record_book.html
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 02, 2017, 04:05:45 PM
13 three's over the middle two quarters of the game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on February 02, 2017, 07:15:49 PM
This week's Around the Great Lakes column focuses on Hope:

http://d3hoops.com/columns/around-the-region/greatlakes/2016-17/hope-culture-winning
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 03, 2017, 11:11:00 AM
Great Lakes--Conference leaders, Pool C picture 

Record--team--W%/--Games remaining against other leaders or PoolC's in parenthesis


AMCC
16-4  LaRoche       .750/ 

HCAC
16-3  Rose-Hulman       .842/
15-4  Bluffton                 .789/                      (Transylvania  2/4)
15-5  Transylvania          .750/                     (@Bluffton 2/4)

MIAA
17-2  Hope             .895/                       (Trine 2/18)
17-2  Trine             .895/                        (@Calvin 2/4, @Hope 2/18)
17-3  Calvin            .850/                       (Trine 2/4, Albion 2/15
15-5  Albion           .750/                        (@Calvin 2/15)

NCAC
19-1  DePauw         .950/                      (Hiram 2/3, @Kenyon 2/11)
15-5  Kenyon          .750/                     (DePauw 2/11, @Hiram 2/18)
15-5  Hiram            .750/                       (@DePauw 2/3, Kenyon 2/18)

OAC
20-0  Ohio Northern   1.000/
16-4  Baldwin-Wallace   .750/                 (Wilmington 2/18)
14-6  Wilmington          .700/                 (@Bald-Wallace 2/18)

PAC
20-0  Thomas More            1.000             


Not very helpful without SOS data which I don't have, hopefully I can fill that in next week 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 03, 2017, 02:53:36 PM
Quote from: sac on February 03, 2017, 11:11:00 AM
Great Lakes--Conference leaders, Pool C picture 

Record--team--W%/--Games remaining against other leaders or PoolC's in parenthesis


AMCC
16-4  LaRoche       .750/ 

HCAC
16-3  Rose-Hulman       .842/
15-4  Bluffton                 .789/                      (Transylvania  2/4)
15-5  Transylvania          .750/                     (@Bluffton 2/4)

MIAA
17-2  Hope             .895/                       (Trine 2/18)
17-2  Trine             .895/                        (@Calvin 2/4, @Hope 2/18)
17-3  Calvin            .850/                       (Trine 2/4, Albion 2/15
15-5  Albion           .750/                        (@Calvin 2/15)

NCAC
19-1  DePauw         .950/                      (Hiram 2/3, @Kenyon 2/11)
15-5  Kenyon          .750/                     (DePauw 2/11, @Hiram 2/18)
15-5  Hiram            .750/                       (@DePauw 2/3, Kenyon 2/18)

OAC
20-0  Ohio Northern   1.000/
16-4  Baldwin-Wallace   .750/                 (Wilmington 2/18)
14-6  Wilmington          .700/                 (@Bald-Wallace 2/18)

PAC
20-0  Thomas More            1.000             


Not very helpful without SOS data which I don't have, hopefully I can fill that in next week

We have it on our website, sac... under the "teams" tab at the top of the page... and under the  "women's" column ... which will direct you here: http://www.d3hoops.com/seasons/women/2016-17/schedule?tmpl=sos-template

It is easier for us to produce the women's content as it is very simple math for us to pull from our database. We now have a link's to the men's, but off-site to KnightSlappy's work since that is far more complex than our system - or Presto's - can handle.

Just be aware, we have to keep our database of missing scores updated, so sometimes numbers can be a little off.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 03, 2017, 04:19:02 PM
Thanks, updated!


Great Lakes--Conference leaders, Pool C picture 

Record--team--W%/--Games remaining against other leaders or PoolC's in parenthesis


AMCC
16-4  LaRoche       .750/.437 

HCAC
16-3  Rose-Hulman       .842/.567
15-4  Bluffton                 .789/.479                      (Transylvania  2/4)
15-5  Transylvania          .750/.472                     (@Bluffton 2/4)

MIAA
17-2  Hope             .895/.543                    (Trine 2/18)
17-2  Trine             .895/.480                        (@Calvin 2/4, @Hope 2/18)
17-3  Calvin            .850/.460                       (Trine 2/4, Albion 2/15
15-5  Albion           .750/.443                        (@Calvin 2/15)

NCAC
19-1  DePauw         .950/.527                      (Hiram 2/3, @Kenyon 2/11)
15-5  Kenyon          .750/.458                     (DePauw 2/11, @Hiram 2/18)
15-5  Hiram            .750/.415                       (@DePauw 2/3, Kenyon 2/18)

OAC
20-0  Ohio Northern   1.000/.547
16-4  Baldwin-Wallace   .750/.526                 (Wilmington 2/18)
14-6  Wilmington          .700/.546                 (@Bald-Wallace 2/18)

PAC
20-0  Thomas More            1.000/.527             
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on February 07, 2017, 06:38:40 PM
Trine returns to the Top 25 rankings this week checking in at 23.  Well deserved.

2 more weeks of regular season left.  Hope, Trine, Calvin and Albion should be in the MIAA tournament barring a collapse by any of the above, which isn't likely.  Adrian and Alma could possibly sneak in.  Seeding for the tournament is up for grabs, could either be Hope or Trine at 1 and 2 and Calvin and Albion at 3 and 4.  Strength of schedule for these teams looking to get in the NCAA tournament is a hindrance as Saint Mary's, Olivet and Kalamazoo have had a very rough year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 07, 2017, 09:43:52 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 07, 2017, 06:38:40 PM
Trine returns to the Top 25 rankings this week checking in at 23.  Well deserved.

2 more weeks of regular season left.  Hope, Trine, Calvin and Albion should be in the MIAA tournament barring a collapse by any of the above, which isn't likely.  Adrian and Alma could possibly sneak in.  Seeding for the tournament is up for grabs, could either be Hope or Trine at 1 and 2 and Calvin and Albion at 3 and 4.  Strength of schedule for these teams looking to get in the NCAA tournament is a hindrance as Saint Mary's, Olivet and Kalamazoo have had a very rough year.

Yes, the bottom half of the league hurts the SOS, but Hope's SOS is significantly higher than Calvin and Trine. This points to the importance of your non conference games.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 08, 2017, 03:39:23 PM
Official

GREAT LAKES                     
1   Ohio Northern            21-0   21-0            
2   Thomas More            20-0   21-0            
3   DePauw                    21-1   21-1            
4   Hope                    17-2   19-2            
5   Rose-Hulman            17-3   18-3            
6   Trine                            18-2   18-2            
7   Carnegie Mellon    15-5   15-5            
8   Baldwin Wallace    17-4   17-4            
9   Calvin                    16-4   18-4

Not as familiar with the selection process on the women's side but the Pool C bubble is probably around the 6-8 spots.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on February 09, 2017, 10:30:51 AM
Did Olivet play as well as the score?  Or did Calvin not play well? 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 09, 2017, 01:53:15 PM
Co-SIDA All-District Team

Anna Timmer, Calvin
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on February 12, 2017, 12:14:30 PM
Big game sat hope vs trine
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 12, 2017, 12:28:59 PM
Quote from: hope1 on February 12, 2017, 12:14:30 PM
Big game sat hope vs trine


Barring a huge upset Wednesday, it'll be last game of the regular season for the outright title.  Nice!  I know the AQ goes to the league tournament champ, could we see two teams this year go to the NCAA?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 13, 2017, 12:56:36 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 12, 2017, 12:28:59 PM
Quote from: hope1 on February 12, 2017, 12:14:30 PM
Big game sat hope vs trine


Barring a huge upset Wednesday, it'll be last game of the regular season for the outright title.  Nice!  I know the AQ goes to the league tournament champ, could we see two teams this year go to the NCAA?

Trine with 3 losses probably is ok,  4 losses seems dicey with that SOS.  Playing Hope twice and Calvin in the tournament would certainly help that SOS.

Hope with 3 or 4 losses is in better shape with a strong SOS.

Calvin probably has to win the AQ as does Albion.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on February 13, 2017, 08:23:32 PM
Quote from: sac on February 13, 2017, 12:56:36 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 12, 2017, 12:28:59 PM
Quote from: hope1 on February 12, 2017, 12:14:30 PM
Big game sat hope vs trine


Barring a huge upset Wednesday, it'll be last game of the regular season for the outright title.  Nice!  I know the AQ goes to the league tournament champ, could we see two teams this year go to the NCAA?

Trine with 3 losses probably is ok,  4 losses seems dicey with that SOS.  Playing Hope twice and Calvin in the tournament would certainly help that SOS.

Hope with 3 or 4 losses is in better shape with a strong SOS.

Calvin probably has to win the AQ as does Albion.

For Trine to go dancing I believe they need to beat Hope once in the next 2 weeks, either this Saturday or in the MIAA tournament.  Hope played very well at Trine, maybe one of their best games of the season?  Trine has to play better "D", especially guarding the 3 ball.  If it gets to be a shootout then that favors Hope.  Trine does have key reserve Tashayla Sutorius available this time around, she missed the first Hope game.  She played very well against Kzoo last Saturday, and is an offensive presence off the bench. 

This team is really a year away from something really special.  Only lose PG Taylor Cole from this year's team.  Good to see a big crowd at last Saturday's Senior Day game at Trine.  Wish I could make the trek to Holland Saturday, hoping their community gets out and supports the Hope girls, would be awesome for Trine to play in front of a couple thousand. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on February 15, 2017, 10:09:17 PM
Both Trine and Hope win tonight with ease.  Trine's win was impressive.  Alma plays tough at home so was surprised to hear how one sided it was.  Trine shoots over 60% for the game from the field. 

Sets up huge regular season finale at Hope Saturday with each looking to get the#1 seed in the MIAA tournament.  Does the #1 seed secure home court for the tournament? 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 15, 2017, 10:39:14 PM
Yes, the #1 seed will host all games for the tournament. Semi's and final.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 16, 2017, 02:27:15 AM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 15, 2017, 10:39:14 PM
Yes, the #1 seed will host all games for the tournament. Semi's and final.

If Hope wins, the women's semi-finals with be at Hope on Friday afternoon due to Hope's men hosting their semi-finals
If Trine wins, the women's semi-finals would be at Trine Friday evening.

The time of the finals may or not be affected at Trine, I cannot remember.  At Hope the women's final would have to be at 3pm on Saturday.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 16, 2017, 05:32:57 AM
Anyone know why Mandy Traversa did not play for Hope last night?  She's in the box score but with 0 minutes and no stats of any kind.  That would be huge if she was unable to go against Trine...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on February 16, 2017, 06:43:44 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 16, 2017, 05:32:57 AM
Anyone know why Mandy Traversa did not play for Hope last night?  She's in the box score but with 0 minutes and no stats of any kind.  That would be huge if she was unable to go against Trine...

Also along that line, freshman starter Katy Steers was not in Trine's box score for the Alma game.  That would be a big loss if she can't go Saturday.  She is a great defender and is good off the dribble at getting to the basket. 

Hopefully both teams will be at full strength Saturday, minus Hope's Perkins who is out for the year, she had big games against Trine last year. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 16, 2017, 08:45:01 AM
Quote from: sac on February 16, 2017, 02:27:15 AM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 15, 2017, 10:39:14 PM
Yes, the #1 seed will host all games for the tournament. Semi's and final.

If Hope wins, the women's semi-finals with be at Hope on Friday afternoon due to Hope's men hosting their semi-finals
If Trine wins, the women's semi-finals would be at Trine Friday evening.

The time of the finals may or not be affected at Trine, I cannot remember.  At Hope the women's final would have to be at 3pm on Saturday.

If Trine hosts, the championship would be 7:30 on Saturday.  If Hope hosts, it would be 5:30 on Saturday (Info from an SID)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 16, 2017, 08:47:27 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 16, 2017, 05:32:57 AM
Anyone know why Mandy Traversa did not play for Hope last night?  She's in the box score but with 0 minutes and no stats of any kind.  That would be huge if she was unable to go against Trine...

Ankle sprain.  It was senior night so she was inserted in the lineup to allow her to be subbed out and recognized (which Coach Mo also did for Elizabeth Perkins which was really nice).  Word on the street is Mandy was held out to provide more time for healing prior to the big game on Saturday.  I strongly suspect she will be playing.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on February 17, 2017, 08:34:24 AM
Go Thunder!!!

We would just like to see someone besides Hope or Calvin host the MIAA tourney
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on February 17, 2017, 05:12:22 PM
Quote from: bballforever on February 17, 2017, 08:34:24 AM
Go Thunder!!!

We would just like to see someone besides Hope or Calvin host the MIAA tourney

I support that statement!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 17, 2017, 08:06:24 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 17, 2017, 05:12:22 PM
Quote from: bballforever on February 17, 2017, 08:34:24 AM
Go Thunder!!!

We would just like to see someone besides Hope or Calvin host the MIAA tourney

I support that statement!!

No one is arguing with you.   :) To host the MIAA tourney you simply need to win the regular conference championship.  Neither Hope nor Calvin have the inside track to hosting.  It is simply earned on the court or the field of play.  Get the coaching, and get the players, and host. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on February 18, 2017, 09:36:06 AM
I read on Hope's athletics website that the Hope-Trine game is sold out.  Is this because of the Hope-Calvin mens game afterwards?  Does that mean any Trine fans making the trip to Holland won't get in without a ticket purchased in advance or do they hold a section open in DeVos for visiting teams?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 18, 2017, 02:37:07 PM
Trine 70 Hope 53.  Trine did everything they needed to do to win the game by out playing Hope in every facet of the game.
Don't recall ever watching Hope team appear so out of sync. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on February 18, 2017, 02:37:27 PM
Final:  Trine 70 Hope 53

Congratulations Thunder on winning MIAA regular season championship!  Big 1st quarter by the girls put some cushion between them and Hope and they pretty much held serve the rest of the game.  Now the post season tournament is coming to Angola next weekend.  Yeah!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 18, 2017, 03:12:46 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 18, 2017, 02:37:27 PM
Final:  Trine 70 Hope 53

Congratulations Thunder on winning MIAA regular season championship!  Big 1st quarter by the girls put some cushion between them and Hope and they pretty much held serve the rest of the game.  Now the post season tournament is coming to Angola next weekend.  Yeah!

Didn't get to watch the game but looking at the box score, the first quarter was pretty much the game.  Looked even the rest of the way except the last couple of minutes when Hope was forced to foul.   Congrats to Trine, they are very tough and its nice to see some depth and parity in the MIAA despite my affinity for Hope.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 19, 2017, 07:42:10 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on October 26, 2016, 07:00:11 PM
Trine's WBB 2016-17 roster:

http://www.trinethunder.com/sports/wbkb/2016-17/roster

Return 4 starters from MIAA tournament runners up last year:

Hayley Martin - 2nd team MIAA
Brandi Dawson - 2nd team MIAA
Taylor Cole
Ashley Elliott

Shelby Oldham, Montana Martin, and Cassidy Williams all played a lot last year as freshmen.

6 newcomers to the roster, 3 transfers and 3 freshmen.  I've seen Tashayla Sutorious play a couple times in Fort Wayne against my niece's team.  She can hoop!  I think she had at one time committed to Chicago State.  Kayla Freeman, I've seen some videos, pretty impressive.  And I've heard good reports about Katy Steers. 

Should be a deep team, maybe one that can break up the Hope/Calvin domination this year?  Can't wait to see them play, along with the Trine MBB team.  Exciting things happening at Trine U.

This post certainly came from a Trine-centric point of view, but it was not wrong. Congrats. :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Enginerd on February 20, 2017, 03:14:56 PM
Will be intriguing to see what the 3rd edition of the Great Lakes Regional Rankings look like when they are released on Wednesday. Hope was 3rd, Trine 6th, and my alma mater, RHIT, 5th, when Round 2 came out last week. With the exception of Hope's wins over Wheaton and UWSP, all of both Hope and Trine's RRO's are MIAA schools. Hope moved up to 3rd last week after Depauw's loss to Kenyon, so will be interesting to see how the committee views Trine's win over Hope balanced against their #257 SOS at .491. There are only 5 other teams across all regions with an SOS under .500, and one of those is Calvin at #284 at .484. The regional committee might look past Trine's poor SOS and move them ahead of BOTH Hope and RHIT, but I think it's likely that Hope and Depauw will just switch places, as will Trine and RHIT.

Last year, RHIT's SOS was #228 @ .506 after a loss in the HCAC Championship game and a final record of 23-4. I'm told that the fact that RHIT did not play anyone regionally ranked outside their conference (1-2 vs. Bluffton, who was ranked 5th in-region) hurt them pretty badly - but it was the fact that Ohio Northern AND Denison both lost in their respective conference tournaments, that really sunk RHIT's chances. If Trine's SOS is still hovering around the .500 mark, they could be in jeopardy.

Trine and RHIT have a LOT of similarities, very nasty on defense (Rose #4 nationally and Trine in Top-15 I believe), both have exhibition wins over D-I schools (Trine over IPFW and RHIT over Eastern Illinois), and both largely overlooked and underappreciated (Trine before this season and Rose even now). I think Trine will benefit from it's conference affiliation and might still be at the table if it loses to Hope in the MIAA Champsionship game. RHIT gets absolutely zero respect, despite having beaten a conference champion (Texas-Dallas) and one of the two UAA schools playing this weekend for all the marbles (Chicago).

I hope neither Trine nor Rose get left out of the dance, but it could happen, depending on what shakes out in other leagues over the weekend.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 20, 2017, 04:44:50 PM
I was playing with my predicted rankings for the Great Lakes today and have it this way:

1. Thomas More
2. Ohio Northern
3. DePauw
4. Hope
5. Rose-Hulman
6. Trine
7. Carnegie Mellon
8. Calvin
9. Baldwin Wallace

I have Thomas More 1 even though they have a worse SOS (.522 vs .524) than Ohio Northern.  All other stats between the 2 are the same but the committee flipped them last week for some unknown reason so I'll just keep them that way. 

DePauw flips with Hope due to the loss by Hope to Trine. 

I kept Rose-Hulman above Trine due to SOS as that has been emphasized in the past.  Rose is 2-2 vs regionally ranked opponents and Trine is 3-2 with the win over Hope.  These could flip, but this is where I have them.

Question for the committee is what do they do with Carnegie Mellon, Calvin and Baldwin Wallace.  They had Carnegie Mellon above them both last week due to a great SOS (.608 now).  But they lost this past week and now have 3 more losses than Calvin and Baldwin Wallace.  For now I have them above both Calvin and Baldwin Wallace, but I could easily see that changing.

Moving forward, if #1 seeds win their tournaments then that would put in:
Thomas More
Ohio Northern
DePauw
Rose-Hulman
Trine

I think Trine and Rose-Hulman have the best chance to not win their conference tournaments, but let's assume they do.

This leaves:
Hope
Carnegie Mellon
Calvin
Baldwin Wallace

Hope gets in with an at-large.  If they leave Carnegie Mellon in front of Calvin and Baldwin Wallace then I don't see them getting to the table as I think Carnegie Mellon blocks them.  Even if Carnegie Mellon somehow gets into the tournament, I would think it's not until the last 2 or 3 rounds of selection and therefore leaving out Calvin / Baldwin Wallace.

So all of these thoughts will probably be wrong after the regional rankings come out Wednesday and conference tournaments shake things up, but this is my first stab at it.  I'll be back with more later in the week.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 20, 2017, 05:19:01 PM
Ohio Northern's two wins in vRRO were against the same team which was located at the bottom of the rankings. Thomas More's victories were against much higher ranked teams. I highly suspect Thomas More got the nod because their vRRO was more substantial.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on February 22, 2017, 11:39:32 AM
Hope verses Calvin on Friday at a neutral site!!!

Any strong thoughts on the winner??
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 22, 2017, 11:44:23 AM
Quote from: bballforever on February 22, 2017, 11:39:32 AM
Hope verses Calvin on Friday at a neutral site!!!

Any strong thoughts on the winner??

Hope wins big at Devos, ekes out a win in overtime at VNA.  That might suggest a solid Hope win at a neutral site and indeed Massey has this as an 8 point win for the Dutch.  But given how both teams have looked recently, I think this is a toss up.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 22, 2017, 05:30:31 PM
Good shot at 2 making the NCAA field, decent shot at 3 if Calvin beats Hope and Trine but Calvin won't get above Carnegie and their massive SOS of .607 so at large bid seems difficult for them.


GREAT LAKES                     
1   Thomas More   24-0   25-0            
2   Ohio Northern   25-0   25-0            
3   Hope   20-3   22-3            
4   DePauw   23-2   23-2            
5   Trine   22-2   22-2            
6   Rose-Hulman   21-3   22-3            
7   Carnegie Mellon   17-7   17-7            
8   Calvin   19-4   21-4            
9   Baldwin Wallace   21-4   21-4

A little surprised Hope stayed ahead of DePauw, RRO advantage maybe? Hope 4-2 DeP 2-1
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 22, 2017, 06:21:07 PM
I realize this is not really the board to comment on Thomas More, but it's the ONLY women's board in the GL region with any activity!  I knew that TM was not JUST Sydney Moss (NO player is gifted enough to win back-to-back titles without a good surrounding cast), but I am stunned that they could go 25-0 the very season after Moss graduated!  I obviously was not giving ENOUGH credit to her teammates. ::)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 22, 2017, 06:51:04 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 22, 2017, 06:21:07 PM
I realize this is not really the board to comment on Thomas More, but it's the ONLY women's board in the GL region with any activity!  I knew that TM was not JUST Sydney More (NO player is gifted enough to win back-to-back titles without a good surrounding cast), but I am stunned that they could go 25-0 the very season after Moss graduated!  I obviously was not giving ENOUGH credit to her teammates. ::)

Agreed, it is an incredible accomplishment to run the table during the season with and especially without Moss.  I guess they don't get more love due weak league.  Most of their league games were blowouts but they did post a couple of close non-league wins vs quality opponents (IWU and Wilmington). 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 22, 2017, 08:05:36 PM
Thomas More had two unbeaten regular seasons pre-Moss, they've lost a total of 3 conference game in 10 full seasons of PAC play.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on February 22, 2017, 08:31:14 PM
Can't wait for the tournament this weekend, of course I am biased because it's in my own backyard this year.  I think Hope wins Friday in the first game, but should be close for the most part.  Calvin's starting 5 I feel is as talented as Hope or Trine's starters, they just don't have the depth of those teams.  If Calvin stays out of foul trouble, and uses their timeouts wisely to give girls a breather, they have a decent shot of pulling off the upset.

In the second game on paper Trine should handle Albion, but Albion is a dangerous team with their 3 point shooting, you can't afford to give them open looks.  We've defended Curry well in both of the games this year against Albion, but if she scores close to 20 that will make it difficult for Trine.  I believe with the home court advantage, Trine gets that 3rd win against Albion, which is a difficult thing to do.

I wonder if the 3 visiting teams will have the fan support for the tournament being in Angola.  Hope and Calvin are a good 2.5 hour drive, Albion isn't too bad, maybe an hour or so?  Weather is going to be warm Friday with chance of showers, then turning colder on Saturday with chance of snow.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 22, 2017, 10:29:34 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 22, 2017, 06:51:04 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 22, 2017, 06:21:07 PM
I realize this is not really the board to comment on Thomas More, but it's the ONLY women's board in the GL region with any activity!  I knew that TM was not JUST Sydney More (NO player is gifted enough to win back-to-back titles without a good surrounding cast), but I am stunned that they could go 25-0 the very season after Moss graduated!  I obviously was not giving ENOUGH credit to her teammates. ::)

Agreed, it is an incredible accomplishment to run the table during the season with and especially without Moss.  I guess they don't get more love due weak league.  Most of their league games were blowouts but they did post a couple of close non-league wins vs quality opponents (IWU and Wilmington).

Thomas More was much more than just Sydney Moss.  Yes, she was phenomenal and deserves a ton of credit, but her teammates are really good as well.  When Calvin played them last year it was evident it was a full team of really good players.  They have one of the best, if not the best, point guards in D3 in Abby Owings.  And Nikki Kiernan is one of the top post players as well.

They have had an incredible run and seem to keep it going.  It is always hard to judge them before the tournament (at least in years without Moss) because they play 18 conference games in a weak conference.  The last couple of years they have played a tougher non conference schedule, which has helped to see how good they are.  They also won big against Maryville this year which won their conference and looks to make the NCAAs.

I've been down to Thomas More a few times when Calvin has played there in the past and it's always a tough environment to play in.  They are well supported by their fans.  The last time Calvin played down there was in the 2012-13 season.  Calvin came back from down 9 with 1:30 to go and tied it to go to OT and win.  It was Thomas More's only regular season loss that year.

All that said, Thomas More looks to be a really tough out this year again in the tournament (something no one was able to do the last 2 years).  I also think Thomas More would have won 3 in a row if Moss hadn't torn her ACL in the Elite 8 3 years ago.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 23, 2017, 02:22:25 PM
From the MIAA website:

On Thursday, the MIAA announced the following student-athletes as all-MIAA performers in women's basketball for the 2016-17 season:


All-MIAA First Team


Francesca Buchanan, Hope

Oreyana Curry, Albion

Brandi Dawson, Trine

Hayley Martin, Trine

Ali Spayde, Calvin

Anna Timmer, Calvin



All-MIAA Second Team


Emily Bernas, Albion

Angelique Gaddy, Hope

Sadia Johnson, Adrian

Bre Luurtsema, Calvin

Mandy Traversa, Hope

Kelsey Wolffis, Alma



Most Valuable Player


Brandi Dawson, Trine


Defensive Player of the Year

Hayley Martin, Trine
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on February 24, 2017, 10:22:34 PM
Semifinal scores:  Calvin 67 Hope 65 and Trine 57 Albion 42

Hope came out with lots of energy in the first game and shot out to a 12 pt lead at one point.  Calvin was struggling just to get some open shots as Hope's defense was very active.  Then in the 2nd qtr Calvin gained a lot of confidence by knocking down shots but Hope still maintained a slim lead going in at half.  The second half was just a dogfight back and forth.  Timmer from Calvin was huge, she consistently got to the rim and finished, she definitely wanted this game.  But still Hope had the ball with a chance to tie or win at the end, but coming out of 2 timeouts, one by each team, it was just a not very well designed final play drawn up.  Hope did get a shot from 3 but it was way off.  So Calvin pulls the upset and heads to the championship. 

The final score in the second game is very misleading as Albion played Trine very tough.  Much like in the first, Trine shot out too a big lead only to see Albion battle back to within 6 pts at half.  Trine's D dug in the 3rd quarter, as it had to play with Haley Martin on the bench in foul trouble, and opened up a 11 pt cushion at the end of 3.  In the fourth Albion had a great push to get it down to 4 points with 5 minutes to go, they definitely had the momentum on their side, but Haley Martin hit a couple big shots to stretch out the lead and Albion never recovered.  Trine struggled mightily on offense tonight, but their one constant all season has been defense and that is what propelled them to the win.  I was impressed with Albion, they lose Curry to graduation but will return a lot of good young players next year.

Good job by the university as hosts.  Lower stands were full, big turnout by the Trine students, and they were loud too which makes for a great atmosphere.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on February 25, 2017, 10:42:40 AM
Championship Saturday...Trine vs Calvin

Trine won 2 close games over Calvin this year.  However, Calvin is playing extremely well right now, and Trine looked sloppy on offense last night.  If Trine finds a way to finish at the rim then I think they win.  If Trine struggles making shots again tonight then Calvin will win if Timmer and Spayde play like they did last night against Hope.  Dawson looked out of sorts last night against Albion, noticed her knee was taped up, she didn't look as fluid as she normally does, she may be banged up a bit.  But at this time of year I'm sure a lot of gals are playing hurt to a certain extent.

So if Calvin wins...does the NCAA take 3 MIAA teams to the dance?  Or is that not likely to happen due to not many at large berths?  Is Hope a lock or are they on the bubble?  Is Trine on the bubble if they lose tonight?  Would love to hear your thoughts from you MIAA womens posters. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 25, 2017, 11:30:01 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 25, 2017, 10:42:40 AM
Championship Saturday...Trine vs Calvin

Trine won 2 close games over Calvin this year.  However, Calvin is playing extremely well right now, and Trine looked sloppy on offense last night.  If Trine finds a way to finish at the rim then I think they win.  If Trine struggles making shots again tonight then Calvin will win if Timmer and Spayde play like they did last night against Hope.  Dawson looked out of sorts last night against Albion, noticed her knee was taped up, she didn't look as fluid as she normally does, she may be banged up a bit.  But at this time of year I'm sure a lot of gals are playing hurt to a certain extent.

So if Calvin wins...does the NCAA take 3 MIAA teams to the dance?  Or is that not likely to happen due to not many at large berths?  Is Hope a lock or are they on the bubble?  Is Trine on the bubble if they lose tonight?  Would love to hear your thoughts from you MIAA womens posters. 

With Trine playing on their home court, I'd have to say they're a solid favorite over Calvin.

In the last regional rankings, Hope was #3, Trine was #5 and Calvin #8.  That was before Hope lost to both Trine and Calvin.  I haven't done the math but I'd have to say that Trine is a lock win or lose today.  Calvin very much on the bubble unless of course they win today.  D3Hoops made a comment about Hope looking solid for an at large despite the loss last night, but I'm not sure that considered the possibility of Calvin winning the AQ.  Bottom line, I think if Trine wins then Hope is in and Calvin on very shaky ground due to low SoS.  If Calvin wins, Trine is still in and Hope has a chance but certainly not a lock.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 25, 2017, 11:31:33 AM
I think if Calvin wins, it could be 3 in form the MIAA. I believe Hope will be ranked in front of Trine if that happens. Trine would have a slight advantage in record, but Hope has a significant advantage in SOS (strength of schedule) and vs RRO (regional ranked opponents). Still think both would have a chance. If Trine wins I doubt if Calvin gets in.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 25, 2017, 11:45:37 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 25, 2017, 11:30:01 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 25, 2017, 10:42:40 AM
Championship Saturday...Trine vs Calvin

Trine won 2 close games over Calvin this year.  However, Calvin is playing extremely well right now, and Trine looked sloppy on offense last night.  If Trine finds a way to finish at the rim then I think they win.  If Trine struggles making shots again tonight then Calvin will win if Timmer and Spayde play like they did last night against Hope.  Dawson looked out of sorts last night against Albion, noticed her knee was taped up, she didn't look as fluid as she normally does, she may be banged up a bit.  But at this time of year I'm sure a lot of gals are playing hurt to a certain extent.

So if Calvin wins...does the NCAA take 3 MIAA teams to the dance?  Or is that not likely to happen due to not many at large berths?  Is Hope a lock or are they on the bubble?  Is Trine on the bubble if they lose tonight?  Would love to hear your thoughts from you MIAA womens posters. 

With Trine playing on their home court, I'd have to say they're a solid favorite over Calvin.

In the last regional rankings, Hope was #3, Trine was #5 and Calvin #8.  That was before Hope lost to both Trine and Calvin.  I haven't done the math but I'd have to say that Trine is a lock win or lose today.  Calvin very much on the bubble unless of course they win today.  D3Hoops made a comment about Hope looking solid for an at large despite the loss last night, but I'm not sure that considered the possibility of Calvin winning the AQ.  Bottom line, I think if Trine wins then Hope is in and Calvin on very shaky ground due to low SoS.  If Calvin wins, Trine is still in and Hope has a chance but certainly not a lock.

To be clear. Those rankings were after Hope lost to Trine.  Hope is a pretty strong pool C candidate. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on February 25, 2017, 01:37:07 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 25, 2017, 11:31:33 AM
I think if Calvin wins, it could be 3 in form the MIAA. I believe Hope will be ranked in front of Trine if that happens. Trine would have a slight advantage in record, but Hope has a significant advantage in SOS (strength of schedule) and vs RRO (regional ranked opponents). Still think both would have a chance. If Trine wins I doubt if Calvin gets in.

I agree that Calvin probably won't get in unless they get the AQ tonight.

Hope and Trine have good enough results this year, but their getting in will also depend on how many upsets there are in the AQ games today, tonight and tomorrow.  The more upsets the less at large bids to go around.  Lets hope there are none.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 25, 2017, 02:47:59 PM
Here are my thoughts / scenarios for each team:

Trine - In if they win tonight.  If they lose I think they still get in as only Hope would be ranked in front of them in the GL region when the committee starts to draft the tournament.  This is assuming that Thomas More, Ohio Northern and DePauw all win their tournaments (all are in the Finals).  I don't think Trine needs to worry about Rose-Hulman if they win or not because I think if they lose they still keep Trine ahead of them as Trine would be losing to a regionally ranked team (Calvin) and Rose-Hulman would not.

Hope - Should be a lock for an at large bid.  Most likely will be the top seeded GL region team in need of the at large Pool C bid. 

Calvin - In if they win tonight.  If they lose they will be very much on the bubble.  Their SOS will be raised from playing Hope and Trine but I don't know if it will get over .500.  They got another regionally ranked win last night against Hope, but a loss to Trine tonight would put them at 2-5.  It will come down to where the committee puts them with Carnegie Mellon.  Each week so far the committee has put CM in front of Calvin due to the overwhelming SOS discrepancy.  CM has a top 10 SOS in the country and would only have 2 more losses than Calvin.  If Calvin remains behind CM and everyone else wins as they should, Calvin would be 3rd in the region to need a Pool C bid and would most likely get blocked behind CM.  And even if they are in front of CM, Calvin would still be on the bubble but somehow could wind up as one of the last 2 or 3 selected.  I'm going to run my draft of the tournament again tonight or tomorrow and see where it goes.

The committee will need to figure out these 2 possible scenarios based on what happens today for Calvin and CM.  This will determine who will be ranked in front in the final regional rankings.

Scenario 1: Calvin loses to Trine and CM beats Case Western Reserve:




TeamRecord(vs D3)Winning %SOSvRRO
Carnegie Mellon18-7.720.6072-6
Calvin20-5.800.4882-5


Scenario 2:  Calvin loses to Trine and CM loses to Case Western (Case Western beat CM earlier this year):




TeamRecord(vs D3)Winning %SOSvRRO
Carnegie Mellon17-8.680.6072-6
Calvin20-5.800.4882-5

Calvin has a better chance to be ranked ahead of CM if CM loses, but it will still be hard due to the huge gap in SOS.  But the committee might weigh winning % more here due to Calvin having 3 less losses.



That being said, I drafted the tournament before the newest rankings last week and think there is room for both Hope and Trine for at large bids.  So there is a very likely possibility for all 3 to get in if Calvin wins tonight.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 25, 2017, 03:08:01 PM
Just keep in mind that the selection committee has made it very clear that they see a correlation of .030 advantage in SOS equates to 2-0 in win/loss.  CM has almost a .120 lead in SOS which is close to 8 more wins. Puts CM solidly above Calvin regardless of the games today.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 25, 2017, 03:55:19 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 25, 2017, 03:08:01 PM
Just keep in mind that the selection committee has made it very clear that they see a correlation of .030 advantage in SOS equates to 2-0 in win/loss.  CM has almost a .120 lead in SOS which is close to 8 more wins. Puts CM solidly above Calvin regardless of the games today.

This has been said by the women's committee?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 25, 2017, 04:37:14 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 25, 2017, 03:55:19 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 25, 2017, 03:08:01 PM
Just keep in mind that the selection committee has made it very clear that they see a correlation of .030 advantage in SOS equates to 2-0 in win/loss.  CM has almost a .120 lead in SOS which is close to 8 more wins. Puts CM solidly above Calvin regardless of the games today.

This has been said by the women's committee?

I'm not certain it has been said by the women's committee - the men for sure. Whether they have said it or not, that much difference in SOS is pretty significant and I can't see that a 2 game difference in W/L makes up for that. An SOS north of .600 is pretty rare. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 25, 2017, 04:51:38 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 25, 2017, 04:37:14 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 25, 2017, 03:55:19 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 25, 2017, 03:08:01 PM
Just keep in mind that the selection committee has made it very clear that they see a correlation of .030 advantage in SOS equates to 2-0 in win/loss.  CM has almost a .120 lead in SOS which is close to 8 more wins. Puts CM solidly above Calvin regardless of the games today.

This has been said by the women's committee?

I'm not certain it has been said by the women's committee - the men for sure. Whether they have said it or not, that much difference in SOS is pretty significant and I can't see that a 2 game difference in W/L makes up for that. An SOS north of .600 is pretty rare.

Yes, I agree with you the SOS gap is significant and I think the committee stays with CM ahead of Calvin regardless of CM outcome today (CM did just win anyways).  But at some point the committee has to look at SOS vs. winning % as well.  I don't think there is a big enough gap in winning % for this one but it does get weighed in as well.  I wonder where the line is though.  You wouldn't put CM ahead of Calvin if they were 15-10 I don't think.

Also, SOS higher than .600 is not as rare on the women's side.  Currently 11 teams have higher than .600 SOS and 1 more has .599.  It is definitely more rare / nonexistent at times on the men's side.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on February 25, 2017, 10:09:40 PM
Your MIAA Womens Champions for 2017, TRINE UNIVERSITY THUNDER!!   ;D

Trine 49, Calvin 42.  First off I want to talk about the crowd support.  Over 1300 fans, probably the largest crowd at a Trine basketball game.  And it was a rockin crowd, it got loud.  The students made it a great college basketball atmosphere.  Kudos to the Blue Crew tonight!

Folks the game was a 40 minute grind.  If you like offensive basketball this wasn't the game for you.  If you like great effort in your face defensive pressure from both teams then this was your kind of game.  Trine jumped out to an early lead, but in the 2nd quarter Calvin clawed their way back and really frustrated Trine to take the lead by 2 at half.  Trine really come out with a defensive purpose in the 3rd quarter and got some fast break points off turnovers and turned the deficit into a 7 point lead going into the 3rd quarter.  In the 4th the teams traded some punches, Calvin got it down to 2 pts with 4 minutes to go but Trine got a put back bucket from Dawson and a drive and score from Williams to push the lead back out to 6, then after a stop on the defensive end, a big 3 point play from Haley Martin to seal the deal.

I thought defensively Calvin had a great game plan.  Anytime Martin or Dawson touched the ball in the post they were immediately double and sometimes triple teamed.  It forced Trine to find points from others and it worked well for Calvin as Trine shot a season low 32%, outside of Martin and Dawson the rest of the team was 7-32 from the floor.  Anna Timmer for Calvin was outstanding again tonight.  Trine switched it up and put defensive player of the year Haley Martin to guard Timmer and put the smaller Dawson on Warners, but Timmer has got some great moves around the basket to offset the length of Martin.  One of the keys to the win was Cassidy Williams defense on Ali Spayde.  Williams frustrated Spayde all night long, and maybe got under her skin a little bit too. 

I was worried that if Trine didn't finish well at the basket tonight that they'd be in trouble.  And if Timmer and Spayde played well then Calvin could win the game.  Timmer stepped up, but Spayde had a rough night.  Both Martin and Timmer finished with double/doubles on the night.  Calvin is really good, it'd be a shame if they don't get in the tournament.  All of their 5 losses were to Trine and Hope this year.

     
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on February 26, 2017, 10:10:06 PM
D3 Hoops panel picks Hope at #12 of 20 Pool C picks.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 27, 2017, 07:58:08 AM
I posted my tournament selections late last night on the NCAA tournament thread.  Here is a link:

http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=6278.msg1793960#msg1793960

I have Hope getting in and Calvin getting left on the table.  I struggled with Calvin because I think they still sit behind Carnegie Mellon in the final regional rankings.  I didn't put CM in, but D3Hoops did, meaning Calvin got to the table in their selection but did not make it in.  It's razor thin I think, so there's lots of room for error here.

I had a hard time with the last 4 or 5 rounds due to low winning percentages of teams with really high SOS.  How the committee weighs that will be interesting.  I could honestly see CM and Calvin getting in, but I think it's a long shot.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on February 27, 2017, 02:59:34 PM
Both are in.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 27, 2017, 03:01:42 PM
All 3 are in.  Trine, Hope, Calvin.

Looks like Calvin did jump Carnegie Mellon in the final regional rankings.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 27, 2017, 08:08:41 PM
A question from a IWU fan who knows next to nothing about WBB in the MIAA (aside from some of the recent Hope and Calvin stars).  This is the first time in 25 years that a team not named Hope or Calvin has won an outright regular-season title.  Does Trine have an incredible group of seniors and this is a one-year 'blip', or has the Big Two become the Big Three for the foreseeable future?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 27, 2017, 08:47:55 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 27, 2017, 08:08:41 PM
A question from a IWU fan who knows next to nothing about WBB in the MIAA (aside from some of the recent Hope and Calvin stars).  This is the first time in 25 years that a team not named Hope or Calvin has won an outright regular-season title.  Does Trine have an incredible group of seniors and this is a one-year 'blip', or has the Big Two become the Big Three for the foreseeable future?

TUAngola should really answer this and I hope they do.  But Trine was a good team last year that won 17 or 18 games and built a nucleus with Brandi Dawson and Hayley Martin.  They only have 1 senior on the team this year so they should be right back where they are again next year.  I believe both Dawson and Martin are transfers (or it might be Martin's sister also on the team that was the transfer) but they were both there last year as well. 

You are correct in wondering who else is in the conference as it has been Calvin or Hope that have won every regular season conference title since 1992 until this year (or split in 2 different years with another team).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 27, 2017, 08:53:13 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 27, 2017, 08:08:41 PM
A question from a IWU fan who knows next to nothing about WBB in the MIAA (aside from some of the recent Hope and Calvin stars).  This is the first time in 25 years that a team not named Hope or Calvin has won an outright regular-season title.  Does Trine have an incredible group of seniors and this is a one-year 'blip', or has the Big Two become the Big Three for the foreseeable future?

Well, I'd say Hope and Calvin don't have their best teams this year but Trine is very solid.  Other than Hope and Calvin, Trine's schedule has been weak so it's tough to tell how they'll respond in the tournament.  They should be even better next year as basically everyone will be back.  They are anchored by 6'2" post Hayley Martin who is all-MIAA 1st team and league defensive POY, along with MIAA POY Brandi Dawson, a 5'10" guard.  Both average over 15 ppg and shoot over 50% on the season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on February 27, 2017, 08:58:47 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 27, 2017, 08:08:41 PM
A question from a IWU fan who knows next to nothing about WBB in the MIAA (aside from some of the recent Hope and Calvin stars).  This is the first time in 25 years that a team not named Hope or Calvin has won an outright regular-season title.  Does Trine have an incredible group of seniors and this is a one-year 'blip', or has the Big Two become the Big Three for the foreseeable future?
Not a "one-year" blip.  When Coach Gould took over the Trine women's program 3 years ago the team has made steady improvement each year with him at the helm.  The big turnaround was the transfer of 2 local high school products, Junior Haley Martin out of DeKalb HS and Sophomore Brandi Dawson from Garrett HS to Trine last year.  This bumped up Trine's offensive skillset considerably and the team has a bevy of role players around these 2 all conference players.  There is actually only 1 senior on the team, starting point guard Taylor Cole.  The other 2 starters are Freshman Katie Steers and Sophomore Cassidy Williams who is a great defensive player.  As a team Trine will get after you on defense, that is their calling card.  This weekend when the offense sputtered it was the defense that won the tournament for them.  This is a tight knit group, they love their coaches, love each other, and love their university. 

However, other than 5 games against Hope and Calvin this year Trine hasn't played a particularly strong schedule. They did play at Wheaton in the 2nd game of the year and Trine lost that game by 15 or so if I recall.  The bottom of the MIAA was pretty weak this year which hurt their SOS.  Albion finished fourth and had a nice year and I project they may do even better next year as they have a nice young frontcourt returning.  I do see more parity in the MIAA in the future. Next year's Trine team should be one of the top teams in the country.  They are also building a new fieldhouse that is projected to be ready for the second half of next season.     
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 27, 2017, 10:31:15 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 27, 2017, 08:58:47 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 27, 2017, 08:08:41 PM
A question from a IWU fan who knows next to nothing about WBB in the MIAA (aside from some of the recent Hope and Calvin stars).  This is the first time in 25 years that a team not named Hope or Calvin has won an outright regular-season title.  Does Trine have an incredible group of seniors and this is a one-year 'blip', or has the Big Two become the Big Three for the foreseeable future?
Not a "one-year" blip.  When Coach Gould took over the Trine women's program 3 years ago the team has made steady improvement each year with him at the helm.  The big turnaround was the transfer of 2 local high school products, Junior Haley Martin out of DeKalb HS and Sophomore Brandi Dawson from Garrett HS to Trine last year.  This bumped up Trine's offensive skillset considerably and the team has a bevy of role players around these 2 all conference players.  There is actually only 1 senior on the team, starting point guard Taylor Cole.  The other 2 starters are Freshman Katie Steers and Sophomore Cassidy Williams who is a great defensive player.  As a team Trine will get after you on defense, that is their calling card.  This weekend when the offense sputtered it was the defense that won the tournament for them.  This is a tight knit group, they love their coaches, love each other, and love their university. 

However, other than 5 games against Hope and Calvin this year Trine hasn't played a particularly strong schedule. They did play at Wheaton in the 2nd game of the year and Trine lost that game by 15 or so if I recall.  The bottom of the MIAA was pretty weak this year which hurt their SOS.  Albion finished fourth and had a nice year and I project they may do even better next year as they have a nice young frontcourt returning.  I do see more parity in the MIAA in the future. Next year's Trine team should be one of the top teams in the country.  They are also building a new fieldhouse that is projected to be ready for the second half of next season.     

Thanks for the info (and also to the others who responded).  IWU also has no key seniors (the three top players are 2 Jrs and a Soph), so next year a battle might be EVEN better (if they were to meet)!  Very much looking forward to Trine/IWU on Friday.

Trine has by far the better record, but IWU is clearly more battle-tested - 5th highest SoS in the country.  May the better team win (sure hope that is the Titans ;D)!  While we beat Wheaton in B'town, we lost to them twice this past week - we're tired of losing to teams called the Thunder! ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 28, 2017, 04:18:49 PM
Massey predictions for the three MIAA teams playing in NCAA first round games on Friday:

Calvin 48, UW Oshkosh 59 (CC 18%, UWO 82%)

Trine 66, Illinois Wesleyan 62 (TU 63%, IWU 37%)

Hope 68, UW Whitewater 66 (HC 53%, UWW 47%)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on March 01, 2017, 08:48:15 PM
It will be interesting to see how Trine executes in their first ever NCAA tournament game as a D3 school.  Will they get that "deer in headlights" look or will they be up for more than just being glad to go to the dance.  IWU certainly has history on their side.  In reading the preview of the matchup it sounds like IWU full court presses the entire game and creates numerous turnovers.  They want a fast paced game whereas Trine wants to grind it out.  What style will win out?  Will they be able to weather some runs by IWU or will they panic?  Trine's been in a few battles with Hope and Calvin this year so that helps.  Still this is a relatively young team, start a senior, a junior, 2 sophs and a freshman.  I know the coaches will have them ready, but it's the unknown, the obstacles IWU presents that maybe Trine hasn't seen before that will be key to whether we figure it out and move on or go home.   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 01, 2017, 09:56:49 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on March 01, 2017, 08:48:15 PM
It will be interesting to see how Trine executes in their first ever NCAA tournament game as a D3 school.  Will they get that "deer in headlights" look or will they be up for more than just being glad to go to the dance.  IWU certainly has history on their side.  In reading the preview of the matchup it sounds like IWU full court presses the entire game and creates numerous turnovers.  They want a fast paced game whereas Trine wants to grind it out.  What style will win out?  Will they be able to weather some runs by IWU or will they panic?  Trine's been in a few battles with Hope and Calvin this year so that helps.  Still this is a relatively young team, start a senior, a junior, 2 sophs and a freshman.  I know the coaches will have them ready, but it's the unknown, the obstacles IWU presents that maybe Trine hasn't seen before that will be key to whether we figure it out and move on or go home.   

You summed up perfectly how I view the game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 03, 2017, 07:36:50 PM
Congratulations to Trine.  You did not see IWU at anywhere near their best (though you may have had something to do with that ;)).  Shooting 33.3% from the field and 14.3% from downtown and getting outrebounded 37-21 is NOT Titan b'ball.  If it weren't for aggressive defense creating 21 TOs and shooting 19-21 from the line, we woulda been slaughtered.

Assuming ONU wins this evening, go give 'em their first loss of the season tomorrow! ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on March 03, 2017, 08:10:45 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 03, 2017, 07:36:50 PM
Congratulations to Trine.  You did not see IWU at anywhere near their best (though you may have had something to do with that ;)).  Shooting 33.3% from the field and 14.3% from downtown and getting outrebounded 37-21 is NOT Titan b'ball.  If it weren't for aggressive defense creating 21 TOs and shooting 19-21 from the line, we woulda been slaughtered.

Assuming ONU wins this evening, go give 'em their first loss of the season tomorrow! ;D

I was able to watch video of the 2nd half, both teams played hard, it really came down to Trine making a few more plays than IWU.  In my earlier post I questioned who's style would win out.  It was definitely a "Trine grinder".  This is what the team has been doing all year...play defense and get big games from their 2 stars, Brandi Dawson and Hayley Martin.  I was really worried about the IWU press going into the game and it did create a lot of turnovers, but fortunately IWU didn't kill Trine by all that much at converting the turnovers into points.  That was key.  And Cassidy Williams turned in another stellar defensive performance.  She always gets the other teams best guard or wing, and this time it was McGraw who she shut down.

Coach Gould said in an interview leading up to the game that the girls weren't nervous at all for being the first Trine team ever in the NCAA tournament.  They just have that positive mindset.  Play their game, try to stop the other teams strengths and exploit their weaknesses.  We had a little height advantage and needed to outrebound IWU, and the did.  Trine hit a good field goal and free throw percentage.  3pt shooting...meh...that has been their weakness all year.  But overall it was a good win against a quality team. 

I should be able to make the drive to Ada tomorrow.  Missed today because of work.  Will be a great atmosphere playing ONU, assuming they'll win, on their home court.   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on March 03, 2017, 08:12:31 PM
...oh and congrats to Hope for winning against UW Whitewater.  Good luck to Calvin in their game against UW Oshkosh later tonight. Go MIAA!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 04, 2017, 04:07:42 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 03, 2017, 07:36:50 PM
Congratulations to Trine.  You did not see IWU at anywhere near their best (though you may have had something to do with that ;)).  Shooting 33.3% from the field and 14.3% from downtown and getting outrebounded 37-21 is NOT Titan b'ball.  If it weren't for aggressive defense creating 21 TOs and shooting 19-21 from the line, we woulda been slaughtered.

Assuming ONU wins this evening, go give 'em their first loss of the season tomorrow! ;D

Fun fact.  Trine held its opponents to 33.3% shooting on the season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on March 04, 2017, 08:30:39 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on March 03, 2017, 08:12:31 PM
...oh and congrats to Hope for winning against UW Whitewater.  Good luck to Calvin in their game against UW Oshkosh later tonight. Go MIAA!

Calvin loses to UW Oshkosh.  Looks like Anna Timmer got into early foul trouble and that was all she wrote.  She is such a good player and important part of their offense that if she doesn't play almost 40 minutes it puts a lot of pressure on the rest of the team to step up.  I wonder if the fouls were legit against her or if the game was called tight?  Also I didn't see Goldthorpe in the box score, did she get hurt leading up to the game?  Hope a Calvin fan who saw the game can give us a recap.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 04, 2017, 08:46:38 PM
Well, Hope gave Thomas More their first loss of the season.  Can Trine do the same to ONU?  They are tied at 40 in the 4th quarter.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 04, 2017, 09:06:09 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 04, 2017, 08:46:38 PM
Well, Hope gave Thomas More their first loss of the season.  Can Trine do the same to ONU?  They are tied at 40 in the 4th quarter.

Alas, no.  ONU pulls away late for a 55-48 win.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on March 04, 2017, 09:21:34 PM
A thrill of Hope, the weary world rejoices!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on March 04, 2017, 10:06:12 PM
Back at the hotel in Lima after traveling to Ada for the Trine-ONU game tonight.  Tough loss.  We were right there.  ONU with a couple huge 3 ptrs with clock running down in the 4th were back breakers.  Our defense was outstanding again, however their center was really good, outplayed Haley tonight.  Keys were unforced turnovers, Brandi and Haley were blanketed by collapsing ONU defense and couldn't get many looks, and free throws, ONU got to the line way more than Trine and shot around 90% I think.  Some of the fouls was rotten officiating (I maybe biased, but we sure didn't get any love from the refs), however ONU got to the rim more than us tonight.  Montana Martin and Tashayla Sutorious were both very good off the bench.  Wish coach would give Tashayla more minutes, she is another offensive weapon when she's in the game.

This has been such a fun ride.  So many memorable games, hated to see it end.  Should give the girls extra motivation in the offseason to put in the work.  Our 3pt shooting has got to improve if teams are going to double Haley and Brandi each time they touch it.  Ball handling needs to improve too.  Let's get to work girls! 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 04, 2017, 10:37:39 PM
A stunning win by Hope tonight, ending TMC's 94-game winning streak (on the heels of U. Conn) . . . at TMC, and with Francesca playing but 14 minutes?  The video feed being followed by fans at DeVos was in and out, so we don't fully comprehend how they managed that . . . but it looks like defense was a big part of the story.

On to Ohio Northern, I presume, to play Christopher Newport in the first game?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on March 04, 2017, 11:16:33 PM
Thomas More certainly had opportunies down the stretch. They have never been behind going into the 4th quarter, so I think they were a little rattled never experiencing that, this season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 05, 2017, 03:08:39 AM
Thinking back to all the times Hope's been a top 5 team and the tough losses they've taken through the years.  Nice to turn those tables I'm sure.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on March 05, 2017, 11:46:00 AM
I noticed that the NCAA broke their trends and did not have a true "pod of doom" on either side as they so often do.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 05, 2017, 11:49:45 AM
Quote from: Dutchfan on March 05, 2017, 11:46:00 AM
I noticed that the NCAA broke their trends and did not have a true "pod of doom" on either side as they so often do.

Well if Thomas More had won you'd have two unbeaten teams playing in the Sweet 16, that's pretty doom'ish.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 05, 2017, 02:08:47 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on March 05, 2017, 11:46:00 AM
I noticed that the NCAA broke their trends and did not have a true "pod of doom" on either side as they so often do.

The women's committee tends not to have many of these pods for varying reasons, but this year rather easy to not have it as the talented and best teams are very much spread out around the country.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 05, 2017, 04:11:09 PM
Way to. Go hope girls.  Keep going
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 05, 2017, 05:09:24 PM
Looks like having a healthy Mandy Traversa has been a big part of Hope's return to their form from earlier in the season.  After sitting out the St. Mary's game on Senior night with a reported ankle injury, she returned to play in the Trine and Calvin losses but only had 6 pts/ 6 rebs and 3/8 respectively in limited minutes in those games.  This weekend, she played 33 minutes and had a 10/10 double double vs Whitewater before posting 22/14 in 35 minutes vs Thomas More.

Here's to hoping she feels even better by next weekend!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on March 05, 2017, 09:11:22 PM
Congratulations to Hope for reaching the Sweet 16.  Amazing performance to knock off Thomas More. 

I just read your next round of games will be at Ohio Northern which is where Trine played this past weekend.  It won't be a back breaker for fans wanting to travel.  From Angola it is about a 2 hr drive.  Ada is just a small blip of a town, so if you plan on overnighting Lima is a short 15-20 minute drive to the west of Ada with plenty of hotels to choose from.

I didn't like their gym...the stands are so FAR from the court...I bet its a good 30 ft from the first row to the court.  It's an older gym, but good size.  Dim lighting for the stands too.

Good luck this coming weekend. 

   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2017, 06:45:49 PM
The Division III NCAA tournaments have already seen their fair share of twists and turns. Both defending champions eliminated on the opening night, several home teams beaten, off-the-radar squads tearing Top 10 teams apart, and much more.

It has been an exciting start. What's next?

Can the home teams parlay a perceived advantage into a Championship Weekend appearence? What Cinderalla team will hear the chimes of midnight? What program will continue to make history? How will the battle of Top 25 teams shake out? And will a storied career end this weekend or in Salem?

There is plenty to talk about ahead of the Sectional Weekend and Dave McHugh has a super-sized list of guests on Thursday night's Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com).

Hoopsville is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. You can watch the show LIVE staring at 7:00 p.m. ET here: http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2016-17/mar9 --- or via the Facebook Live (http://www.facebook.com/Hoopsville) simulcast. If you missed any part of the show, you can watch it On Demand or listen to the podcast.

Despite the large list of guests, Dave will find time to answer questions as well. Make sure to email them to hoopsville@d3hoops.com or tweet them and Dave will answer them on air.

Guests scheduled (in order of appearance):
- Brian Morehouse, No. 18 Hope women's coach
- Trevor Woodruff, No. 17 Scranton women's coach
- Craig Carse, Hardin-Simmons men's coach
- Ruth Sinn, No. 2 St. Thomas women's coach
- Michelle Ferenz, No. 16 Whitman women's coach
- Kevin App, Williams men's coach
- Grey Giovanine, Augustana men's coach

You can also tune into the podcast(s) after the show has aired:
SoundCloud: www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville
iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hoopsville/id1059517087

Don't forget you can always interact with us:
Website: www.d3hoopsville.com
Twitter: @d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) or #Hoopsville
Facebook: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville
Email: hoopsville@d3hoops.com
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/d3hoopsville

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdnak1.psbin.com%2Fimg%2Fmw%3D710%2Fcr%3Dn%2Fd%3Dmkbzw%2Fjt7zn7grjzpwzjzp.jpg&hash=414d7f84435fe6b5e2fae50fd683c7781d50601a)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 10, 2017, 05:23:56 PM
The link to the Hope women's video tonight is a generic boxcast link, but the actual link is
https://boxcast.tv/view/wbb-sectional-semifinal-game-1-3-10-17-172041
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 10, 2017, 07:21:35 PM
Hope led CNU 37-31 at the half, but a huge 3rd quarter by CNU put them up by 13.  Hope has stormed back and now trails by only 4 with 2+ to go.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 10, 2017, 07:31:54 PM
Comeback squelched - Hope falls 79-74.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 10, 2017, 08:45:41 PM

It looked to me like Hope had the two best players on the court - and CNU had the next 6.  Really sloppy game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 13, 2017, 01:50:08 PM
The MIAA garners multiple all-region awards from d3hoops, including 2 on the first team, one on the second team, two on the third team, and the "rookie of the year". 

1st team
Francesca Buchanan - Hope
Brandi Dawson - Trine

2nd team
Hayley Martin - Trine

3rd team
Ali Spayde - Calvin
Anna Timmer - Calvin

Rookie of the year
Sadia Jonson - Adrian

http://www.d3hoops.com/awards/all-region/2016-17/great-lakes-women
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on September 11, 2017, 10:59:38 AM
Former Hope player Brittany Berry has joined the staff as an assistant coach at Olivet College
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on October 31, 2017, 11:15:32 AM
MIAA looking good in the preseason d3hoops top 25:

Trine at 9
Hope at 13
Calvin receiving votes
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on October 31, 2017, 07:03:36 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on October 31, 2017, 11:15:32 AM
MIAA looking good in the preseason d3hoops top 25:

Trine at 9
Hope at 13
Calvin receiving votes

Congrats to Trine on the preseason poll ranking, well deserved recognition. We only lost one senior to graduation from the roster, so it was more than likely Trine would be in the Top 25 to start.  I know the girls are still hungry and are looking to improve even more.  In addition to always tough Hope and Calvin, they get a good non-conference test playing Amherst, last year's national champ, in Las Vegas in December.  It will be a good experience for them to play one of the best early on to gauge where they stand.  I look for Albion to be a sleeper this year in the MIAA too, they played Trine tough in the tournament last year.

Trine returns 11 from last year with 7 freshmen.  Besides Taylor Cole who graduated, missing from this years roster is Tashayla Sutorius. This is a disappointment as I was looking forward to her development, she played really good minutes at the end of the year last year.  Trine will once again look to All Conference players Brandi Dawson and Haley Martin to lead them this year.  But, Trine also has a lot of good complimentary players and interchangeable parts to throw at teams.  Cassidy Williams is tough as nails defending.  I look for Montana Martin to maybe move into the starting 5 at point, but she is so good off the bench too.  Not sure if any of this years freshmen will get much playing time.  Maybe Courtney Wise, she was a small school all state player last year at Union City, IN, and should provide some depth in the post.  Lauryn Carroll out of Arbor Prep in MI was on a team that won a championship.  And Camille Lira from California won a championship at her school.

The new MTI Center opens in January, so if you get a chance, come on down to Angola and check us out.  Can't wait for the season to start.  Hope to hear about your team's preseason outlook soon!     
 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 07, 2017, 02:28:55 PM
Nice showing for the MIAA, with two 2nd-team preseason All-Americans.  Hope junior Frankie Buchanan and Trine junior Brandi Dawson.  Congratulations!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on November 08, 2017, 08:10:09 PM
Pre-season MIAA coaches poll is out.  No surprises here...1) Trine...2) Hope...3) Calvin...4) Albion.  These 4 teams should battle it out, not sure if any of the others will push for top 4...maybe Adrian. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on November 15, 2017, 10:31:12 PM
Trine 94 Defiance 78

Tougher than expected opener for the ladies from Trine.  I don't think we're going to sneak up on anyone this year, we're on everyone's radar.  Defiance came out on fire.  Trine prides itself on D but the Yellow Jackets were pretty much lights out in the first half, especially from 3.  I think we may have been down by 10 at one point in the 2nd quarter.  We got back in the game by feeding the post, mainly Brandi Dawson, and getting some of their girls in foul trouble.  We played much better in the 2nd half defensively, but still had some breakdowns, something I'm sure Coach Gould and staff are going to focus on working on the girls defensive rotations.  Defense was never an issue last year.  Free throw shooting tonight was a little "stinky" too, not sure of exact number but guessing 60%.  Our new point guard, Camille Lira is gonna be a good one.  She is pretty poised for a freshman.  She had a sequence at the end of the first half where she scored a bucket and got fouled with 0.9 seconds left.  She missed the foul shot, but no one boxed her out, got her own rebound and scored at the horn.  4 pts in 0.9 seconds that put us up by 4 at the half.  The other girl I thought was most improved from last year was Shelby Oldham, another point guard.  You can tell she's worked on her game, seems a lot more confident.  We played without starting center Hayley Martin, who was in street clothes on the bench.  Looks to be a little banged up, possibly a foot or ankle injury.   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on November 16, 2017, 01:38:15 PM
Calvin lost big.  Two of their post players (Lurtzema and Meyer) not in box score.  Injured?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 16, 2017, 04:51:22 PM
Quote from: bballforever on November 16, 2017, 01:38:15 PM
Calvin lost big.  Two of their post players (Lurtzema and Meyer) not in box score.  Injured?

Yikes, they played basically six players with the top 4 getting 37, 38, 39 and 40 minutes.  Looks like Ali Spayde had a tremendous game but they need to develop some depth for down the road.  I have to assume they've been hit with the injury bug, I hope nothing too serious.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on November 16, 2017, 10:28:27 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on November 16, 2017, 04:51:22 PM
Quote from: bballforever on November 16, 2017, 01:38:15 PM
Calvin lost big.  Two of their post players (Lurtzema and Meyer) not in box score.  Injured?

Yikes, they played basically six players with the top 4 getting 37, 38, 39 and 40 minutes.  Looks like Ali Spayde had a tremendous game but they need to develop some depth for down the road.  I have to assume they've been hit with the injury bug, I hope nothing too serious.

Yes, Calvin has been hit with some injuries. The game at Cornerstone was a one possession game going into the 4th quarter. It looks like they ran out of gas.

Calvin did not go very deep last year either.  This seems to be Coach Winkleman's preference.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on November 17, 2017, 10:17:15 PM
Hope   105      Heidelberg    50

Hope's starting lineup and rotation
PG Newman        Fr  relieved by      King         Soph
G   Geers           Sr  relieved by     Swift          Jr
C   Buchanan     Jr   relieved by     Voskuil       Fr
F   Schwark       Sr   relieved by    Randall       Sr
F   Schoonveld   Fr   relieved by    Moorman     Fr

Really impressed with Schoonveld, her game reminds me a lot of Courtney Kust (Hope, cicra 2009/10-2012/13).
Once 6'3" Voskuil gets the ball inside, forget about it, especially when you have a 5'9" F guarding you. Voskuil has tremendous speed, but boy, what a toothpick physique.
Buchanan just makes the game look effortless.
Geers played outstanding on both sides of the ball, smart player. Also, Geers was wearing some sort of soft harness on her right shoulder, although it didn't hinder her shot and she didn't favor any kind of injury.
Would like to see how they do against better competition.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 18, 2017, 06:36:38 AM
Quote from: jspiii on November 17, 2017, 10:17:15 PM
Hope   105      Heidelberg    50

Hope's starting lineup and rotation
PG Newman        Fr  relieved by      King         Soph
G   Geers           Sr  relieved by     Swift          Jr
C   Buchanan     Jr   relieved by     Voskuil       Fr
F   Schwark       Sr   relieved by    Randall       Sr
F   Schoonveld   Fr   relieved by    Moorman     Fr

Really impressed with Schoonveld, her game reminds me a lot of Courtney Kust (Hope, cicra 2009/10-2012/13).
Once 6'3" Voskuil gets the ball inside, forget about it, especially when you have a 5'9" F guarding you. Voskuil has tremendous speed, but boy, what a toothpick physique.
Buchanan just makes the game look effortless.
Geers played outstanding on both sides of the ball, smart player. Also, Geers was wearing some sort of soft harness on her right shoulder, although it didn't hinder her shot and she didn't favor any kind of injury.
Would like to see how they do against better competition.


Good opening game for Hope though I agree, need to see how they do against better competition.  Rose-Hulman today should be a good indicator, they are a tough team receiving top 25 votes.

I agree, Voskuil and Schoonveld were very impressive freshman.  Schoonveld very athletic and didn't play like a freshman.  Voskkuil looked very smooth and coordinated, maybe not what you'd expect for a 6'3" first year player.  The one breakout where she caught the lead pass, quick dribble and steped through the defender - very impressive.  If this incoming class continues to develop the future looks very bright for the Dutch.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on November 18, 2017, 05:12:35 PM
Does Hope really play Baldwin Wallace TWICE in Orlando in a three days span?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 18, 2017, 05:55:08 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on November 18, 2017, 05:12:35 PM
Does Hope really play Baldwin Wallace TWICE in Orlando in a three days span?

Yes they do - the other school dropped out last minute.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on November 18, 2017, 08:08:57 PM
Hope   63   Rose-Hulman   58

This is the type of game I have no explantion for. Hope was outrebounded 43-25, offensive rebounds Hope 8 Rose-Hulman 21. If there wasn't a scoreboard, I would guess Rose-Hulman won by 5-6 points. My opinion, Hope was outplayed maybe 30 minutes of the game. Hope up by 9 points with 2:24 left in the 1st half, ends Hope up by 1 at halftime. Back and forth, all 2nd half. Hope down 58-55 with 1:29 to play, that's all the scoring Rose-Hulman has. Geers make 2 free throws, Schwark makes a big 3, a steal by Geers and free throws at the end and it's over.

This is a game Hope easily could have lost, but boy, will it long good on the end of year resume, against arguably a tournament team.

Just had a chance to watch the post-game press conference after the Heidelberg game and Coach Morehouse said that in his 22 years of coaching, Rose-Hulman may be the best offensive rebounding team he has seen. Hope knew it going in and still couldn't stop Rose-Hulman.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 19, 2017, 12:43:33 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on November 18, 2017, 05:55:08 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on November 18, 2017, 05:12:35 PM
Does Hope really play Baldwin Wallace TWICE in Orlando in a three days span?

Yes they do - the other school dropped out last minute.

The should play Baldwin one night, and Wallace the next.

Am I right?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 19, 2017, 10:38:18 PM
Quote from: sac on November 19, 2017, 12:43:33 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on November 18, 2017, 05:55:08 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on November 18, 2017, 05:12:35 PM
Does Hope really play Baldwin Wallace TWICE in Orlando in a three days span?

Yes they do - the other school dropped out last minute.

The should play Baldwin one night, and Wallace the next.

Am I right?

He'll be here all season, folks. Make sure you tip your servers and... try the veil! :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 22, 2017, 07:40:20 AM
Great win for the Flying Dutch last night at NACC favorite Concordia Wisconsin.  11 hour road trip to a tough team's court, coming off a tough win against Rose Hulman, this could have easily been a trap game.  Even more impressive, the two freshman guards led the way.  Very nice job!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: OC_SID on November 22, 2017, 10:18:09 PM
Quote from: sac on November 19, 2017, 12:43:33 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on November 18, 2017, 05:55:08 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on November 18, 2017, 05:12:35 PM
Does Hope really play Baldwin Wallace TWICE in Orlando in a three days span?

Yes they do - the other school dropped out last minute.

The should play Baldwin one night, and Wallace the next.

Am I right?

Before it was Baldwin Wallace, it was Baldwin-Wallace, and before that it was Baldwin College (maybe University) and German Wallace College.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 30, 2017, 01:21:17 PM
Interesting game last night with Olivet at Hope - if I'm not mistaken there were 6 freshman starting between the two teams.  Olivet's press was impressive, specially how well they did it on missed shots rebounded by Hope.  Lots of turnovers for the Dutch, in fact Hope had three 10 second violations in the first half.  Hope eventually adjusted to it, and attacked well.  Francesca (Frankie) Buchanan with a monster game of 18 points, 19 rebounds, in 21 minutes.

Side note - Olivet coach Zach Ingles was pretty animated several times over what he saw as missed calls.  At one point he sat behind his team on the bleachers, which drew the attention of the small but boisterous Dew Crew.  They then mimicked everything Coach Ingles did for the next couple minutes, which had the broadcasters cracking up. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on November 30, 2017, 08:16:26 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on November 30, 2017, 01:21:17 PM
Interesting game last night with Olivet at Hope - if I'm not mistaken there were 6 freshman starting between the two teams.  Olivet's press was impressive, specially how well they did it on missed shots rebounded by Hope.  Lots of turnovers for the Dutch, in fact Hope had three 10 second violations in the first half.  Hope eventually adjusted to it, and attacked well.  Francesca (Frankie) Buchanan with a monster game of 18 points, 19 rebounds, in 21 minutes.

Side note - Olivet coach Zach Ingles was pretty animated several times over what he saw as missed calls.  At one point he sat behind his team on the bleachers, which drew the attention of the small but boisterous Dew Crew.  They then mimicked everything Coach Ingles did for the next couple minutes, which had the broadcasters cracking up.

Agree on the backcourt violations. Tolbert did a good job dribbling through the press. 3 Hope passes in the backcourt will eat a lot of those 10 seconds. Olivet is going to surprise a few teams in the conference. The 25 point margin was not indicative of how hard Olivet made Hope work.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on November 30, 2017, 09:48:01 PM
Trine won against Franklin last night.  Not overly impressive season for the girls so far in the games I've been to.  Yes they've been winning, but things just seem out of sync compared to last year.  Shooting has been poor, especially behind the arc.  Defense has been pretty good, but offensively we don't have much fluidity yet in our half court offense.  Forced shots, poor to no movement.  Most of our offense is from getting out on the break and creating scoring chances that way.  Not having Haley Martin at full strength has hurt the chemistry a bit, but all teams have injuries to deal with.  She's made some progress but you can tell she isn't 100% yet, and maybe she won't be this year.  We're a bit overrated, not sure if top 10 ranking is deserving, but lots of season yet to get it figured out.  I'd love to see Coach play Montana Martin more, maybe even start.  She's been pretty good this year, one of the more athletic girls we have.  But he's probably thinking the team needs her more with the 2nd unit to be the go to gal in that group.

MIAA season for Trine starts Saturday with a trip to Alma.  It will be interesting to see how we do against league foes the next couple of weeks. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on December 09, 2017, 07:58:11 PM
Trine 50, Calvin 47

Calvin outplayed Trine for 3/4 of the game.  Calvin is such a disciplined team, they don't make many mistakes.  If it wasn't for a huge 4th quarter comeback, Trine would for certain be looking at a 2-1 MIAA record.  Spayde is a really good player, she has the ball in her hands when it's go time, however she had to work pretty hard today but made some really clutch shots.  Same for Warners.  She has a nice mid-range jump shot.  As for Trine like I said in an earlier post we just aren't very good in the half court offense yet.  In the 4th we got some stops and got out and ran and that is what propelled the comeback, plus we finally hit some big 3's, 2 by Haley Martin to get us close, and the game winner by Montana Martin with 5 seconds to go.  Calvin calls time out to set up their offense and we actually tried fouling Calvin to put them at the line, but the refs didn't see it and we stole the ball and ran out the clock.

This was the last women's game played in Hershey Hall, as the 2nd half of the season begins with a home game against Hope Wed, Jan 3 in the new MTI Center.  It was nice to close this chapter with a gutsy win.       
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on December 10, 2017, 10:35:40 AM
Hope squeaked by at Albion, where they always have difficulty.  The Dutch trailed most of the first three quarters of the game, giving a very solid Albion team their first loss of the season. 

The Dutch have a lot of firepower but they have a lot of work to do to gel on defense and take care of the ball.  Hope's turnover margin is the smallest I can remember, reflecting an uncharacteristically high 17 to/gm rate.  Also, the defense seems to be still learning Hope's system of overplaying the wings with backside help.  Much of this can probably be attributed to a lot of youth in the backcourt compared to recent years - it takes a while to learn and trust that system - and perhaps the lack of that one or two lockdown defenders that Hope always seems to feature.

That said, these things are exactly the kind a little more experience and coaching can address.  I'm sure the team will continue to shore up these areas as the season progresses.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 10, 2017, 05:07:38 PM
First semester finals may have started, or about to start, but that hasn't stopped the action on the hardcourt from being formidable. Even the first winter storm of the season didn't stop the games on the East Coast.

On Sunday night's episode of Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com), Dave tries not to scratch his hair (out) as he and guests try and decipher the action of the past few nights and week. While the women seem to have settled in this week, the men's side continues to produce results that make things more complicated. Are there any great teams in Division III?

It just may be too early, still, to really know.

Hoopsville is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. You can watch the show LIVE starting at 7:00 p.m. ET right here: http://bit.ly/2kjEiau

You can also send your questions to the show and have them featured on the Hoopsville Mailbag segment. Email them to hoopsville@d3hoops.com.

Guests include (in order of appearance):
- Carissa Sain Knoche, Chicago women's coach
- Brian Morehouse, No. 8 Hope women's coach
- Dan Raymond, Ithaca women's coach
- Jeff Brown, No. 2 Middlebury men's coach
- Matt Goldsmith, TCNJ men's coach

You can also tune into the podcast(s) after the show has aired:
SoundCloud: www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville
iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hoopsville/id1059517087

Don't forget you can always interact with us:
Website: www.d3hoopsville.com
Twitter: @d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) or #Hoopsville
Facebook: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville
Email: hoopsville@d3hoops.com
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/d3hoopsville

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdnak1.psbin.com%2Fimg%2Fmw%3D710%2Fcr%3Dn%2Fd%3D0rlol%2Fqu8vo271byd7rofu.jpg&hash=6494073f4236f20f0017f0a5c15ee9a644bc8ca9)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on December 15, 2017, 02:07:00 AM
Speaking of Hope, nice cameo from former Flying Dutch great and Player of the Year Carrie Snikkers in this week's Around the Nation column

http://www.d3hoops.com/columns/around-the-nation/2017-18/women-pro-ball
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on December 24, 2017, 01:43:36 PM
Trine WBB hits the road with 2 games in Vegas this week against UWStout and Amherst.  Then MIAA play begins with a huge game against Hope on Wednesday the 3rd at the brand new MTI Center.

Here is a "sneak peak" of the inside, scoreboard looks sweet!

Merry Christmas everyone!


[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on January 02, 2018, 05:46:38 PM
MIAA play resumes tomorrow (Wed) with Trine's first game in the brand new MTI Center with a huge game against Hope.  Trine finished 2017 with a nice record, only blemish being the 6 pt loss to Amherst in Vegas last Friday.  Trine held a 5 pt lead at half but just struggled mightily hitting shots all game, but that was to be expected against the top ranked defensive team in the nation.

I wish we would have had a few games in the new arena before Hope came to town, but the schedule is what it is.  I think this will benefit Hope as it will probably feel more like a neutral court game, new surroundings for Trine, no students on campus either.  For those Hope fans making the trip travel safely.  I think the weather forecast is calling for lake effect snow beginning late afternoon, it shouldn't affect Angola much but areas west and north are supposed to get some significant accumulation.  Anyone attending however will be admitted free.  Some giveaways planned as well.     
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 02, 2018, 05:52:21 PM
I had a nice conversation with Trine coach Ryan Gould about the new arena, the team's performance at the D3hoops.com Classic and the rest:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixKs7tzVo
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on January 02, 2018, 07:10:16 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 02, 2018, 05:52:21 PM
I had a nice conversation with Trine coach Ryan Gould about the new arena, the team's performance at the D3hoops.com Classic and the rest:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixKs7tzVo

Thanks for uploading that interview, I had not seen it.  Ryan has certainly elevated the program since his arrival at Trine and it's been exciting to see his teams compete.  You can tell the gals really love playing for the coaching staff and for each other. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 03, 2018, 07:16:01 AM
Have to give Trine the nod in this one.  Hope is undefeated, but a lot of tight wins including some against teams that are not great.  Trine is veteran and very solid, Hope quite young especially in backcourt.  Hope has lost the rebounding battle and turnover margin in several games this year, very uncharacteristic.  Trine by 10 tonight, but Hope will get them at Devos.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on January 03, 2018, 06:12:09 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 03, 2018, 07:16:01 AM
Have to give Trine the nod in this one.  Hope is undefeated, but a lot of tight wins including some against teams that are not great.  Trine is veteran and very solid, Hope quite young especially in backcourt.  Hope has lost the rebounding battle and turnover margin in several games this year, very uncharacteristic.  Trine by 10 tonight, but Hope will get them at Devos.

Oh I think it will be much closer than a 10 pt game.  Trine has only practiced 3x in the new gym, it's not like the old familiarity of Hershey Hall.  I think we'll struggle making shots as the site lines will be a lot different at MTI Center.  The one thing Hope has in their favor, they are a better offensively balanced team than Trine.  Dawson struggled with hitting shots in the trip to Vegas, will need her to play well for us to have a shot.  Buchanan scares me the most, she matches up well with Martin.  Staying out of foul trouble between those 2 will be key.  I will report back after the game.   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on January 03, 2018, 10:20:39 PM
Hope 57 Trine 46

First off I want to comment on the MTI Center.  Trine hit a home run with this new facility.  It is a gem for the University.  The scoreboard/videoboard is sweet, sound system killer.  Not many glitches with the first game, it did start about 15 minutes late, only thing I could think of was maybe the Hope bus was tardy arriving?

The game, well, my prediction in the post before the game was right on target.  I was worried about a few things 1) new building with only 3 practices 2) we have trouble making shots 3) Hope's balance and shooting.  They all played out.  Hope got off to a terrific start, they hit a lot of 3's the 1st qtr, you leave Geers free she will make you pay.  I mentioned I was worried about the Buchanan matchup, well she was in street clothes with a walking boot. Did she get hurt in a previous game or practice?  Turns out Hope didn't need her.  Your team is blessed with a couple of Freshman bigs who are pretty talented in Voskuil and Thomas.  I thought they were terrific.  After the first quarter Trine really never made a serious run in the game, they maybe got it to 4 pts, but Hope always had an answer at the opportune time.  I thought after the first qtr Trine's defense was good for the most part.  We missed too many easy ones and free throws early.  Then we chunked up a bunch of 3 pointers in the second half trying to get back in the game, which didn't work at all.

I am not throwing in the towel over this loss.  Hope is good, deep, can rotate 12 gals.  Our bugaboo isn't defense or hustle.  We just aren't a good offensive team right now.  Dawson carried us in the 1st half to keep it close, then Hope started to double her in the 2nd half and dared us to beat them shooting jump shots.  That was the right coaching move.  Going forward I hope our recruiting focuses on girls that can shoot.  Yes defense is key, but you can't win either if you don't score.     
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 04, 2018, 05:38:51 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on January 03, 2018, 10:20:39 PM
Hope 57 Trine 46

First off I want to comment on the MTI Center.  Trine hit a home run with this new facility.  It is a gem for the University.  The scoreboard/videoboard is sweet, sound system killer.  Not many glitches with the first game, it did start about 15 minutes late, only thing I could think of was maybe the Hope bus was tardy arriving?

The game, well, my prediction in the post before the game was right on target.  I was worried about a few things 1) new building with only 3 practices 2) we have trouble making shots 3) Hope's balance and shooting.  They all played out.  Hope got off to a terrific start, they hit a lot of 3's the 1st qtr, you leave Geers free she will make you pay.  I mentioned I was worried about the Buchanan matchup, well she was in street clothes with a walking boot. Did she get hurt in a previous game or practice?  Turns out Hope didn't need her.  Your team is blessed with a couple of Freshman bigs who are pretty talented in Voskuil and Thomas.  I thought they were terrific.  After the first quarter Trine really never made a serious run in the game, they maybe got it to 4 pts, but Hope always had an answer at the opportune time.  I thought after the first qtr Trine's defense was good for the most part.  We missed too many easy ones and free throws early.  Then we chunked up a bunch of 3 pointers in the second half trying to get back in the game, which didn't work at all.

I am not throwing in the towel over this loss.  Hope is good, deep, can rotate 12 gals.  Our bugaboo isn't defense or hustle.  We just aren't a good offensive team right now.  Dawson carried us in the 1st half to keep it close, then Hope started to double her in the 2nd half and dared us to beat them shooting jump shots.  That was the right coaching move.  Going forward I hope our recruiting focuses on girls that can shoot.  Yes defense is key, but you can't win either if you don't score.     

Must admit I'm a bit surprised how this played out, especially with Buchanan out (sprained ankle in practice Tuesday).  As you point out, Freshman bigs Voskuil and Thomas really played well.  I figured they were going to be very good but didn't expect that kind of performance until next year.  It was the difference and bodes very well for the coming 3 years.  Geers has also stepped up her level the last few games after a somewhat slow start to the year.  Hope protected the ball better than in many recent games and also won the rebounding battle, both areas of concern to me.  All in all, Hope played very well while Trine had some trouble putting the ball in the hole especially from three.  If they hit just 25% of those and they're right in that game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 08, 2018, 09:42:28 AM
The Hope women continue to improve, with 6'2" Thomas and 6'3" Voskuil looking more solid every game and the two starting freshman guards looking good too.  Against Kzoo Saturday, Celina King had something of a breakout game, hitting 5/6 from three and leading the team with 17 points.  While she's a sophomore, she missed almost all of last year so is still learning the college game pace.  Throw in junior 6' All American Buchanan, Swift and a few other very good underclassmen and I kind of thought next year would be Hope's year.  But if the young players continue to develop at this pace, Hope may be able to make some real noise this year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on January 08, 2018, 10:41:51 AM
Big week for Calvin, verses Albion and Hope.
They seemed tired against Alma, I was there and did not see a ton of fire.  Maybe all those minutes catching up with them.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 08, 2018, 12:50:24 PM
Quote from: bballforever on January 08, 2018, 10:41:51 AM
Big week for Calvin, verses Albion and Hope.
They seemed tired against Alma, I was there and did not see a ton of fire.  Maybe all those minutes catching up with them.


Calvin probably has one of the best starting fives in the league.  Spayde is arguably front runner for POY though arguments could be made for Dawson of Trine and Buchanan of Hope; both score much less but take about 8 shots/pg less.  So I could see them knocking off Hope or Trine somewhere along the way.  But their top 5 all play more than 25 mpg with the top 3 playing more than 30 mpg with Spayde playing 37.  I'm not sure if that's sustainable with consistency and makes them very vulnerable to injury.  Also makes post season tough when you have Fri/Sat games with demands for sustained defensive intensity against quality teams.  But I like watching them and suspect they'll have something to say about the MIAA race, as witnessed by the first game at a really good Trine team's gym.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 08, 2018, 01:21:58 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 08, 2018, 12:50:24 PM
Quote from: bballforever on January 08, 2018, 10:41:51 AM
Big week for Calvin, verses Albion and Hope.
They seemed tired against Alma, I was there and did not see a ton of fire.  Maybe all those minutes catching up with them.


Calvin probably has one of the best starting fives in the league.  Spayde is arguably front runner for POY though arguments could be made for Dawson of Trine and Buchanan of Hope; both score much less but take about 8 shots/pg less.  So I could see them knocking off Hope or Trine somewhere along the way.  But their top 5 all play more than 25 mpg with the top 3 playing more than 30 mpg with Spayde playing 37.  I'm not sure if that's sustainable with consistency and makes them very vulnerable to injury.  Also makes post season tough when you have Fri/Sat games with demands for sustained defensive intensity against quality teams.  But I like watching them and suspect they'll have something to say about the MIAA race, as witnessed by the first game at a really good Trine team's gym.

Always hard to compare players when their minutes per game vary so greatly.  Took a shot to compare those mentioned in points and rebounds per 40 minutes

A. Spayde - 22.3pts - 5.5 reb
F. Buchanan - 23.0 pts - 15.6 reb
B. Dawson - 18.6 pts - 8.6 reb


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on January 14, 2018, 09:39:26 PM
Trine with a not very pretty 51-31 win over Saint Mary's on Saturday.  Just not a very fluid team offensively this year.  We look slow.  Poor decision making. Unforced turnovers.  Missing too many free throws, we even had 2 consecutive air ball free throws Saturday, you don't see that very often.  Lacking confidence in shot making or even taking open shots.  I don't know how many times we passed up an open 10-15 ft jump shot and try to take it to the hoop against double coverage.  It would be ok if we finished at the hoop or drew a foul, but we end up taking circus shots that have no chance of going in.  I hope we break out of our funk soon as we play against a very good Albion squad on the road Wednesday.  Defensively we are playing very well.  But not enough offense has bit us twice already, against Amherst and Hope, where we played well enough in each defensively to win.  My expectations were maybe a bit too high with this team from last year's tournament run.  But then again we aren't sneaking up on anyone anymore either.  I hope Coach is focusing his practices on offense and free throw shooting this week.       
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 15, 2018, 09:59:06 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on January 14, 2018, 09:39:26 PM
Trine with a not very pretty 51-31 win over Saint Mary's on Saturday.  Just not a very fluid team offensively this year.  We look slow.  Poor decision making. Unforced turnovers.  Missing too many free throws, we even had 2 consecutive air ball free throws Saturday, you don't see that very often.  Lacking confidence in shot making or even taking open shots.  I don't know how many times we passed up an open 10-15 ft jump shot and try to take it to the hoop against double coverage.  It would be ok if we finished at the hoop or drew a foul, but we end up taking circus shots that have no chance of going in.  I hope we break out of our funk soon as we play against a very good Albion squad on the road Wednesday.  Defensively we are playing very well.  But not enough offense has bit us twice already, against Amherst and Hope, where we played well enough in each defensively to win.  My expectations were maybe a bit too high with this team from last year's tournament run.  But then again we aren't sneaking up on anyone anymore either.  I hope Coach is focusing his practices on offense and free throw shooting this week.       

Holding your opponent to 31 is very pretty to my eyes.  Offense may come and go but when the team plays defense like that, you should be in good shape most of the time.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on January 15, 2018, 12:23:43 PM
Question for the experts on the Hope/Calvin game.  Why the low number of assists for both teams?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 15, 2018, 02:29:18 PM
Quote from: bballforever on January 15, 2018, 12:23:43 PM
Question for the experts on the Hope/Calvin game.  Why the low number of assists for both teams?

No way those numbers are correct - or at the very least, the official scorer has a very different understanding of an assist than I do.  Frankie Buchanan alone had at least 6 baskets where she was assisted - they have Hope with a total of 4. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on January 23, 2018, 08:06:19 AM
Calvin verses Trine this week.  Any thoughts?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 23, 2018, 01:01:59 PM
Quote from: bballforever on January 23, 2018, 08:06:19 AM
Calvin verses Trine this week.  Any thoughts?

Hard to figure this one.  Calvin played both Trine and Hope very tough at their own gyms.  Then they barely squeak out a win in OT against St Mary's, which Hope had just demolished by 58 on the same floor.

I guess I'd say this one goes much like the first game. fairly tight most of the way, but don't think Trine will need to make a big shot at the end to win.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on January 24, 2018, 06:43:49 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 23, 2018, 01:01:59 PM
Quote from: bballforever on January 23, 2018, 08:06:19 AM
Calvin verses Trine this week.  Any thoughts?

Hard to figure this one.  Calvin played both Trine and Hope very tough at their own gyms.  Then they barely squeak out a win in OT against St Mary's, which Hope had just demolished by 58 on the same floor.

I guess I'd say this one goes much like the first game. fairly tight most of the way, but don't think Trine will need to make a big shot at the end to win.

2 big games on the road this week for Trine, at Calvin tonight and at Hope Saturday.  I'd be happy with a split.  Calvin outplayed Trine in the first meeting this year, if not for a big 4th qtr and a 3 pointer at the end Trine would have lost.  Hope thoroughly outplayed Trine in their matchup earlier this month, and that was without Buchanan.  I don't see Hope losing at home.  They deserve their #2 ranking.  So deep and talented, especially in the post.  Most D3 teams don't get quality bigs, they usually are snatched up by bigger schools.  Hope always seems to get talented post players, including the 2 freshmen they have this year.

Trine just not playing as well as last year.  Defense has been good, offense painful to watch.  Trine is a little dinged up, a starter and key reserve may both be out.  We'll see. 

 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on January 27, 2018, 01:18:33 PM
Trine at Hope today.  With Hope win they will have essentially wrapped up the regular season crown and will host the MIAA playoff rounds.  A Trine win will even the season series and put each team with 1 loss in the league.  I think Hope will win easily today, they are a better rounded and deeper team than Trine right now.  For Trine to keep it close Brandi Dawson will have to put the team on her back offensively, and Haley Martin will need some help guarding the post, and someone else will have to step up and help out offensively, maybe Kayla Freeman who is getting more playing time recently. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 27, 2018, 05:08:50 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on January 27, 2018, 01:18:33 PM
Trine at Hope today.  With Hope win they will have essentially wrapped up the regular season crown and will host the MIAA playoff rounds.  A Trine win will even the season series and put each team with 1 loss in the league.  I think Hope will win easily today, they are a better rounded and deeper team than Trine right now.  For Trine to keep it close Brandi Dawson will have to put the team on her back offensively, and Haley Martin will need some help guarding the post, and someone else will have to step up and help out offensively, maybe Kayla Freeman who is getting more playing time recently. 

Well, you weren't right on the outcome but otherwise you called it right.  Dawson put the team on her back offensively (12-15 fg!!!) and Martin with some help shut down the post.  Trine's defense held Hope to 14 points and a miserable shooting % in the first half.  While the Dutch put on a spirited rally in the final five minutes behind frosh Kenedy Schoonveld (24 pts) it was just too much to overcome against the Trine defense.  Trine had 10 more rebounds, 10 more assists, and the Hope bench only had 9 points which is very unusual.  With those stats its a bit surprising the score was as close at the end as it was.  Congrats!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on January 28, 2018, 09:18:53 AM
Good win for Trine's resume'.  Sounds like it was a strong 1st two quarters for Trine and then had to hold off a furious Hope comeback in the last 2 quarters.  As I mentioned, Dawson needed to come up big in this game, and she did.  Martin may have had her best overall game so far this year.  She's been battling thru injuries all year so was good to hear she had a strong game in the post.

So, the question is, if both Hope and Trine win out the rest of the way, what is the tiebreaker for who hosts the tournament?  But maybe home court won't be such a big deal.  For the Hope/Trine mens and womens basketball games against each other this year the road team has won all 4 times.  ::)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 28, 2018, 06:04:41 PM
assuming both Trine and Hope win out, I think we'd get down to "f" on the tie-breaker chart  (this is a copy paste of the mens tie breakers which I was told is the same for women, so turn the 7 into an 8"

"In cases where two or more teams conclude MIAA play with identical league records, the ties would
be broken using the following criteria:

a.Head to Head
b.Combined record vs. the teams ahead of the tied teams in the standings.
c.Record against 1st place team, then 2nd place team, etc....all the way through the standings.
d.Total conference road wins
e.Individual road records against conference schools, starting with the 1st place team, then 2nd place
team, etc...all the way through the standings.
f.Record in second half of conference season (last 7 games).
g.In-Region win total.
h.Coin Flip.
In the case of a tie involving multiple teams, the same tie breaking criteria as above would be used
until one team can be placed in position. The remaining tied teams would then
use the above criteria
to establish the next position until no teams remain tied. In an unbreakable tie, the position will be
determined by a coin flip conducted by the Commissioner. (5/12)
3.Once teams have been put in positions 1-8, seeds will be established"


Trine would be 8-0 the 2nd half of the season, Hope 7-1
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on January 29, 2018, 07:05:53 AM
Remember in 2011, there was a coin flip between Hope and Calvin AD's, I believe.  Hope called  it, but lost it.

Calvin hosted and won on the famous last minute shot!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 29, 2018, 12:48:53 PM
Quote from: bballforever on January 29, 2018, 07:05:53 AM
Remember in 2011, there was a coin flip between Hope and Calvin AD's, I believe.  Hope called  it, but lost it.

Calvin hosted and won on the famous last minute shot!!

The tie-breaker was changed after that.  No one really wants a coin flip.  The tie-breaker above makes it nearly impossible to ever get to a coin flip.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on January 31, 2018, 03:33:51 PM
Calvin loved the coin flip!!  :) ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Jameswys on January 31, 2018, 08:16:55 PM
Olivet and Trine are tied at halftime. I watched about 14 minutes of this game and I didn't think either team looked especially good (though I'm not sure I know the women's game well enough to make that judgement). I thought both teams seemed well matched in the first and I wouldn't have know there was a top ten team in the building unless I had seen the poll and the standings earlier today.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 01, 2018, 11:30:13 PM
Quote from: sac on January 28, 2018, 06:04:41 PM
assuming both Trine and Hope win out, I think we'd get down to "f" on the tie-breaker chart  (this is a copy paste of the mens tie breakers which I was told is the same for women, so turn the 7 into an 8"

"In cases where two or more teams conclude MIAA play with identical league records, the ties would
be broken using the following criteria:

a.Head to Head
b.Combined record vs. the teams ahead of the tied teams in the standings.
c.Record against 1st place team, then 2nd place team, etc....all the way through the standings.
d.Total conference road wins
e.Individual road records against conference schools, starting with the 1st place team, then 2nd place
team, etc...all the way through the standings.
f.Record in second half of conference season (last 7 games).
g.In-Region win total.
h.Coin Flip.
In the case of a tie involving multiple teams, the same tie breaking criteria as above would be used
until one team can be placed in position. The remaining tied teams would then
use the above criteria
to establish the next position until no teams remain tied. In an unbreakable tie, the position will be
determined by a coin flip conducted by the Commissioner. (5/12)
3.Once teams have been put in positions 1-8, seeds will be established"


Trine would be 8-0 the 2nd half of the season, Hope 7-1

I've been told the women do not have the same tie-breakers as the men.  Under our current scenario we would need a coin.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on February 07, 2018, 10:11:48 AM
Hope at Calvin tonight.  Maybe Calvin will come up with a win and we won't need a coin flip.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 07, 2018, 02:39:43 PM
Women's first regional rankings of the season are out: http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2018/02/women-regional-rankings-first
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on February 07, 2018, 10:18:00 PM
Boy, tonight's Hope v. Calvin game was a life after death experience for Hope fans, watching the play-by-play stats and seemingly seeing the game end:
00:08    Hope Steal by GEERS,MADISON    66 - 69    
00:01    Hope 30SEC TIMEOUT by Hope    66 - 69    
00:00    Hope Assist by GEERS,MADISON    66 - 69    
00:00    Hope BUCHANAN,FRANCESCA made layup    68 - 69
So . . . we put our phones away and went back to watching Hope v. Adrian men . . .

But then . . .
00:00    Hope TEAM TIMEOUT by Hope    68 - 69    
00:00    30SEC TIMEOUT by Calvin Calvin
00:00    Hope Foul by GEERS,MADISON    68 - 69    
00:00    RICHARDS,BECCA missed free throw Calvin
00:00    TEAM deadball rebound Calvin
00:00    RICHARDS,BECCA missed free throw Calvin
00:00    Hope VOSKUIL,OLIVIA defensive rebound    68 - 69    
00:00    Hope 30SEC TIMEOUT by Hope    68 - 69    
00:00    Hope BUCHANAN,FRANCESCA made layup    70 - 69    
00:00    Hope Assist by TOLBERT,ARIKA    70 - 69
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 08, 2018, 02:11:44 AM
Game winner

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W45ZaiZuVzM
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on February 08, 2018, 09:08:27 AM
The end of yesterday's Hope/Calvin game.

http://static.psbin.com/1/1/d98zic83o5e4u2/2-7-2018_Final_Seconds_Hope_VS_Calvin.mp3
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 08, 2018, 12:34:22 PM
Or better yet... https://youtu.be/-_IBWoLwqTw
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 08, 2018, 03:14:10 PM
literally the same video
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 08, 2018, 03:40:53 PM
Sorry sac - I actually didn't see your post... I only saw the MP3 posting.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 08, 2018, 03:41:07 PM
The first regional rankings are out which in itself brings on a lot of conversation, but the jockeying and positioning contines in conferences around the country for teams trying to keep their seasons going into March.

On Thursday's edition of Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com), Dave talks to a number of high-ranking squads about the pressure to stay atop their respective conference races while also positioning themselves well in the regional rankings.

Dave also welcomes a coach who has played in DIII, coached in both DII and DIII, and coached both men and women. He talks about the road, possibly, less traveled in the "WBCA Center Court" segment.

Hoopsville is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. You can watch the show LIVE starting at 7:00 p.m. ET here: http://bit.ly/2EROVeC

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Guests include (in order of appearance):
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- Michelle Ferenz, No. 5 Whitman women's coach
- Charlie Just, Spalding women's coach (WBCA Center Court)
- Landry Kosmalski, No. 11 Swarthmore men's coach
- Tom Curle, Plattsburgh State men's coach

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Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on February 12, 2018, 12:50:29 PM
What happens when Calvin and Albion tie for third?

Another coin toss?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 14, 2018, 03:09:42 PM
New women's regional rankings: http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2018/02/women-regional-rankings-second
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 17, 2018, 03:25:49 PM
Quote from: bballforever on February 12, 2018, 12:50:29 PM
What happens when Calvin and Albion tie for third?

Another coin toss?

They would go through the tiebreakers like Trine and Hope will if tied after today.  Here are the tiebreakers that Sac post back on February 1st:

"In cases where two or more teams conclude MIAA play with identical league records, the ties would
be broken using the following criteria:

a.Head to Head
b.Combined record vs. the teams ahead of the tied teams in the standings.
c.Record against 1st place team, then 2nd place team, etc....all the way through the standings.
d.Total conference road wins
e.Individual road records against conference schools, starting with the 1st place team, then 2nd place
team, etc...all the way through the standings.
f.Record in second half of conference season (last 8 games).
g.In-Region win total.
h.Coin Flip.
In the case of a tie involving multiple teams, the same tie breaking criteria as above would be used
until one team can be placed in position. The remaining tied teams would then
use the above criteria
to establish the next position until no teams remain tied. In an unbreakable tie, the position will be
determined by a coin flip conducted by the Commissioner. (5/12)
3.Once teams have been put in positions 1-8, seeds will be established"


If Trine, Hope and Albion all win today, which they should, then the standings will look like this:

Trine 15-1
Hope 15-1
Calvin 11-5
Albion 11-5

Break the tie for Trine and Hope first:
You need to go all the way down to tiebreaker "F".  Trine would be 8-0 and Hope would be 7-1, because Trine beat Hope more recently.  Trine would be the #1 seed and Hope the #2 seed.

Break the tie for Calvin and Albion:
Again, you need to go all the way down to tiebreaker "F".  Albion would be 6-2 and Calvin would be 5-3, because Albion beat Calvin more recently.  Albion would be the #3 seed and Calvin the #4 seed.

The MIAA tournament would look like this:
#1 Trine vs #4 Calvin
#2 Hope vs #3 Albion

Trine would host the tournament for the 2nd year in a row.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 17, 2018, 03:33:00 PM
Based on my previous post about the MIAA tournament, we could be in store for a good one.  Trine and Hope won all of their games except splitting against each other on the road.  But Calvin and Albion played both of them close.  Look at the results from the year:

Calvin:
at Trine - L 50-47
at Hope - L 58-51
home vs Trine - L 49-46
home vs Hope - L 70-69

Albion:
home vs Hope - L 62-59
home vs Trine - L 67-50
at Hope - L 69-57
at Trine - L 67-59

Calvin lost to Trine by 3 each game and those games could have easily gone Calvin's way.  Calvin also just lost at home to Hope on a buzzer beater heart breaker.  I don't expect this to be an easy semi's, let alone tournament for Trine and Hope.  I could easily see Calvin walking away with this.  If that proves true, then look for 3 NCAA tournament bids just like last year with Trine, Hope and Calvin all getting in.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HupHolland on February 17, 2018, 05:21:31 PM
I am pretty sure I heard the Hope AD say they would be doing a coin flip for who gets to host the MiAA Tournament. Coin flip will be at 5:30ish
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 17, 2018, 07:00:34 PM
Quote from: HupHolland on February 17, 2018, 05:21:31 PM
I am pretty sure I heard the Hope AD say they would be doing a coin flip for who gets to host the MiAA Tournament. Coin flip will be at 5:30ish

Hope won the toss and is hosting, playing Calvin 7:30 Friday.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 17, 2018, 08:36:08 PM
Glad I spent time going through the tiebreakers that apparently only exist on the men's side  ???

Anyone know why the tiebreakers are different on the women's side?  Or even what they officially are?

Looks to be a great tournament in Holland next weekend.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 18, 2018, 02:40:23 PM
Quote from: bballfan13 on February 17, 2018, 08:36:08 PM
Glad I spent time going through the tiebreakers that apparently only exist on the men's side  ???

Anyone know why the tiebreakers are different on the women's side?  Or even what they officially are?

Looks to be a great tournament in Holland next weekend.

I do have the women's tiebreakers:

In cases where two or more teams conclude MIAA play with identical league records, the ties would be broken using the following:
a. In a two-way tie, if one team beat the other twice during the regular season, then that team receives the higher seed. If the two teams split during regular season, then compare each team's record with the team highest in the standings and continue down through the standings until the tie is broken.
b. In a multiple tie, teams involved in the tie would compare their regular season record to the other teams tied for that position (i.e., A vs. B and C, B vs. C and A, and C vs. A and B). The team with the worst record then drops out until there are only two teams remaining. At this point, the tie would be broken by using the same procedure used in a two-way tie.
c. If two teams are still tied, compare home wins within the conference; then compare road wins in conference play as the last tie breaker before the coin toss.
d. In an unbreakable tie, the seeding will be determined by a coin flip conducted by the Commissioner.
e. In cases where two or more teams conclude MIAA play with identical league records, the following tiebreaker would be broken using the following format to determine the #4 seed:
i. In a two-way tie, if one team beat the other twice during the regular season, then that team receives the #4 seed. If the two teams split during regular season, the two teams would play on Monday night of MIAA tournament week to determine the team which would advance to the semifinals. This differs from a two-way tie for 1st, 2nd, or 3rd place.
ii. In a multiple tie, teams involved in the tie would compare their regular season record to the other team tied for that position (i.e., A vs. B and C, B vs. C and A, and C vs. A and B). The team with the worst record then drops out until there are only two teams remaining. At this point the tie would be broken using the same procedure used in a two-way tie for 4th place.
f. At this point the two remaining teams would play on Monday night of MIAA tournament week to determine the team which would advance to the semifinals. Home court would be determined by a coin flip conducted by the Commissioner and will be a 7:30 game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 18, 2018, 02:40:57 PM
As for why they are different... previous commissioner(s) allowed both men and women to conduct things differently. Not sure why. Hints are that things like that may start to be cleaned up moving forward.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 21, 2018, 03:02:37 PM
The NCAA released the third set of women's basketball regional rankings with few changes from last week's version. This is the final set that we'll see before the Tournament bracket is released on Monday. Full list here: http://d3hoops.com/notables/2018/02/women-regional-rankings-third

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Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 21, 2018, 04:58:26 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 21, 2018, 03:02:37 PM
The NCAA released the third set of women's basketball regional rankings with few changes from last week's version. This is the final set that we'll see before the Tournament bracket is released on Monday. Full list here: http://d3hoops.com/notables/2018/02/women-regional-rankings-third

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Trying to understand why DePauw is ranked ahead of Hope?

DePauw - 24-1 record vs DIII, 2-1 vs RRO, .531 SOS
Hope - 23-1 record vs DIII, 2-1 vs RRO, .540 SOS

The SOS difference should more than make up for the 1 extra DIII win.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 21, 2018, 08:33:48 PM
That SOS is basically not a difference. That SOS is a wash. .009 is not even measurable in the eyes of the committee. So consider it all equal except for the better WL% for DePauw. There are also other criteria like comparable opponents, but I haven't looked there. Most likely those are equal in straight Ws, but they may look at those games more deeply.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 22, 2018, 08:12:11 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 21, 2018, 08:33:48 PM
That SOS is basically not a difference. That SOS is a wash. .009 is not even measurable in the eyes of the committee. So consider it all equal except for the better WL% for DePauw. There are also other criteria like comparable opponents, but I haven't looked there. Most likely those are equal in straight Ws, but they may look at those games more deeply.

OK, I get that - just was confused by Hope being ranked #1 the first week, then week 2 & 3 it's DePauw.  Ultimately it really doesn't matter anyway, just curious.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Enginerd on February 22, 2018, 11:27:18 AM
Rose-Hulman played Hope and DePauw on back-to-back weekends so I had an opportunity to see both teams play - Depauw in person and Hope on-line.

Completely different teams - both class acts with outstanding coaching. DePauw is possibly the most disciplined team and executes at the highest level I've seen in a long time - and are every bit RHIT's equal defensively and on the boards (two of RHIT's signature strengths).

Hope is ridiculously long, tall, and athletic - with perhaps one of the best Freshman classes in Division III women's basketball in a long time, and they will lose fewer than a dozen games in their entire career at Hope. In fact, RHIT played an exhibition game at Eastern Illinois University a week prior to Hope - and I was told by someone who saw both games that Hope had more Division I players than Eastern Illinois!

Regardless how things shake out this season for Hope via regional rankings and their NCAA draw - the combination of talent and coaching are going to make their fans very happy for a long time.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 22, 2018, 12:05:15 PM
Enginerd (love the name by the way) - thank you for sharing your perspective! 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 22, 2018, 12:48:35 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 22, 2018, 08:12:11 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 21, 2018, 08:33:48 PM
That SOS is basically not a difference. That SOS is a wash. .009 is not even measurable in the eyes of the committee. So consider it all equal except for the better WL% for DePauw. There are also other criteria like comparable opponents, but I haven't looked there. Most likely those are equal in straight Ws, but they may look at those games more deeply.

OK, I get that - just was confused by Hope being ranked #1 the first week, then week 2 & 3 it's DePauw.  Ultimately it really doesn't matter anyway, just curious.

Well the big difference between Week 1 and the rest is that week 1 doesn't have vRRO considered - it can't. In just this week's data sheet, DePauw is 4-1 vRRO and Hope is 2-1. That could be playing a significant role in this conversation. I honestly was surprised Hope was #1 in the first week, I felt they should have been 2 or 3. Remember also, Hope is 21-1 in the eyes of the committee in the primary criteria and DePauw is 23-1.... that will make up for the SOS difference of .524 (DePauw) and . 552 (Hope) ... which actually is inside the .030 equals two games comparison.

Just on that ... I would be giving it to DePauw as well.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 22, 2018, 01:44:24 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 22, 2018, 12:48:35 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 22, 2018, 08:12:11 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 21, 2018, 08:33:48 PM
That SOS is basically not a difference. That SOS is a wash. .009 is not even measurable in the eyes of the committee. So consider it all equal except for the better WL% for DePauw. There are also other criteria like comparable opponents, but I haven't looked there. Most likely those are equal in straight Ws, but they may look at those games more deeply.

OK, I get that - just was confused by Hope being ranked #1 the first week, then week 2 & 3 it's DePauw.  Ultimately it really doesn't matter anyway, just curious.

Well the big difference between Week 1 and the rest is that week 1 doesn't have vRRO considered - it can't. In just this week's data sheet, DePauw is 4-1 vRRO and Hope is 2-1. That could be playing a significant role in this conversation. I honestly was surprised Hope was #1 in the first week, I felt they should have been 2 or 3. Remember also, Hope is 21-1 in the eyes of the committee in the primary criteria and DePauw is 23-1.... that will make up for the SOS difference of .524 (DePauw) and . 552 (Hope) ... which actually is inside the .030 equals two games comparison.

Just on that ... I would be giving it to DePauw as well.

Dave,

I'm very aware that the vRRO is not in play week one - but when it did become part of the rankings, they both had/and still have the exact same vRRO record, which is 2-1.  That confused me since it was the only change and yet the rankings switched. 

I'm not sure what data sheet you are looking at, but the one linked in the regional rankings on d3hoops (dated 2/19/18) has them both with 2-1 vRRO this week, and their SOS are .531 (DePauw) and .540 (Hope).  If the data you shared is actually the correct data then of course the vRRO makes sense to cause a change.   

NOTE: I noticed earlier that the mens data sheet links were showing last years data
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 22, 2018, 04:50:03 PM
I have to get back you on the data... good chance I might be reading last week's (not sure how), but I will get back to you.

THe NCAA sometimes screws around the links. I need to figure out what is going on. Soon as I clear those things up, I will look at it again and let you know. However, I need to go pick up my kids and get Hoopsville ready to air. Have some time after that, before the show, I will be sure to return to this.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 22, 2018, 09:28:13 PM
OK - so I was looking at the wrong data sheets, sorry about that. Not sure how that happened.

I have DePauw at 24-1 and Hope 23-1 - a wash.
I have DePauw at .531 and Hope at .540 for the SOS - a wash.
Both teams are 2-1 vRRO - which is a wash on paper, but DePauw has a win over Rose-Hulman and Wis. Lutheran (5th and 6th this week) and a loss to WashU; Hope has wins over Trine and Rose-Hulman and a lose to Trine ... I'm going to give this to DePauw for the fact they have three teams in that group versus just two for Hope.
Comparable opponents:
- Trine: Hope is 1-1; DePauw 1-0
- That's all I've got apparently.

No head-to-head.

I think it is really close. I am not sure what the non-conference SOS numbers are... it could very well be they went to secondary criteria and maybe that gave the nod to DePauw. If I am splitting hairs, I am still giving that to DePauw thanks to the non-loss to Trine and the extra (three) opponents in the vRRO.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 23, 2018, 08:33:20 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 22, 2018, 09:28:13 PM
OK - so I was looking at the wrong data sheets, sorry about that. Not sure how that happened.

I have DePauw at 24-1 and Hope 23-1 - a wash.
I have DePauw at .531 and Hope at .540 for the SOS - a wash.
Both teams are 2-1 vRRO - which is a wash on paper, but DePauw has a win over Rose-Hulman and Wis. Lutheran (5th and 6th this week) and a loss to WashU; Hope has wins over Trine and Rose-Hulman and a lose to Trine ... I'm going to give this to DePauw for the fact they have three teams in that group versus just two for Hope.
Comparable opponents:
- Trine: Hope is 1-1; DePauw 1-0
- That's all I've got apparently.

No head-to-head.

I think it is really close. I am not sure what the non-conference SOS numbers are... it could very well be they went to secondary criteria and maybe that gave the nod to DePauw. If I am splitting hairs, I am still giving that to DePauw thanks to the non-loss to Trine and the extra (three) opponents in the vRRO.

I really don't want to continue to drag this out - as I said earlier the order is not terribly significant to me  - but I am interested in the why based on the facts.  DePauw is not 1-0 vs Trine - they are 0-0 - never played them this year.  And what three extra opponents in the vRRO - both teams are 2-1?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HOPEful on February 23, 2018, 09:14:44 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 23, 2018, 08:33:20 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 22, 2018, 09:28:13 PM
OK - so I was looking at the wrong data sheets, sorry about that. Not sure how that happened.

I have DePauw at 24-1 and Hope 23-1 - a wash.
I have DePauw at .531 and Hope at .540 for the SOS - a wash.
Both teams are 2-1 vRRO - which is a wash on paper, but DePauw has a win over Rose-Hulman and Wis. Lutheran (5th and 6th this week) and a loss to WashU; Hope has wins over Trine and Rose-Hulman and a lose to Trine ... I'm going to give this to DePauw for the fact they have three teams in that group versus just two for Hope.
Comparable opponents:
- Trine: Hope is 1-1; DePauw 1-0
- That's all I've got apparently.

No head-to-head.

I think it is really close. I am not sure what the non-conference SOS numbers are... it could very well be they went to secondary criteria and maybe that gave the nod to DePauw. If I am splitting hairs, I am still giving that to DePauw thanks to the non-loss to Trine and the extra (three) opponents in the vRRO.

I really don't want to continue to drag this out - as I said earlier the order is not terribly significant to me  - but I am interested in the why based on the facts.  DePauw is not 1-0 vs Trine - they are 0-0 - never played them this year.  And what three extra opponents in the vRRO - both teams are 2-1?

Amherst and Hope are the only teams to beat Trine this season, the did not play DePauw.

DePauw and Hope's only shared opponent is Rose-Hulman, both teams got them at home and won by similar numbers. Personally, since everything else is close to equal, I'd give the nod to the team with the "better" loss. Second time playing the #6 team in the country, on their court vs. at the time #10 ranked Washington at home. Maybe a slight nod to Hope, but it's still so stinkin close.

I'm with Flying Dutch Fan, I have no problem with this going either way, but there was absolutely no change between the first and second rankings that warranted a change in how the teams were ranked. Shouldn't really matter. If Hope beats Trine in the MIAA Tournament, that should propel them ahead. If Trine wins, DePauw would clearly have the edge.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 23, 2018, 02:05:17 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on February 23, 2018, 09:14:44 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 23, 2018, 08:33:20 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 22, 2018, 09:28:13 PM
OK - so I was looking at the wrong data sheets, sorry about that. Not sure how that happened.

I have DePauw at 24-1 and Hope 23-1 - a wash.
I have DePauw at .531 and Hope at .540 for the SOS - a wash.
Both teams are 2-1 vRRO - which is a wash on paper, but DePauw has a win over Rose-Hulman and Wis. Lutheran (5th and 6th this week) and a loss to WashU; Hope has wins over Trine and Rose-Hulman and a lose to Trine ... I'm going to give this to DePauw for the fact they have three teams in that group versus just two for Hope.
Comparable opponents:
- Trine: Hope is 1-1; DePauw 1-0
- That's all I've got apparently.

No head-to-head.

I think it is really close. I am not sure what the non-conference SOS numbers are... it could very well be they went to secondary criteria and maybe that gave the nod to DePauw. If I am splitting hairs, I am still giving that to DePauw thanks to the non-loss to Trine and the extra (three) opponents in the vRRO.

I really don't want to continue to drag this out - as I said earlier the order is not terribly significant to me  - but I am interested in the why based on the facts.  DePauw is not 1-0 vs Trine - they are 0-0 - never played them this year.  And what three extra opponents in the vRRO - both teams are 2-1?

Amherst and Hope are the only teams to beat Trine this season, the did not play DePauw.

DePauw and Hope's only shared opponent is Rose-Hulman, both teams got them at home and won by similar numbers. Personally, since everything else is close to equal, I'd give the nod to the team with the "better" loss. Second time playing the #6 team in the country, on their court vs. at the time #10 ranked Washington at home. Maybe a slight nod to Hope, but it's still so stinkin close.

I'm with Flying Dutch Fan, I have no problem with this going either way, but there was absolutely no change between the first and second rankings that warranted a change in how the teams were ranked. Shouldn't really matter. If Hope beats Trine in the MIAA Tournament, that should propel them ahead. If Trine wins, DePauw would clearly have the edge.

Agree with everything here.  But I'm worried about Calvin first, Hope has already had two nailbiters with Calvin and as they say, beating a team three times in a season is tough....
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 23, 2018, 06:44:08 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 23, 2018, 08:33:20 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 22, 2018, 09:28:13 PM
OK - so I was looking at the wrong data sheets, sorry about that. Not sure how that happened.

I have DePauw at 24-1 and Hope 23-1 - a wash.
I have DePauw at .531 and Hope at .540 for the SOS - a wash.
Both teams are 2-1 vRRO - which is a wash on paper, but DePauw has a win over Rose-Hulman and Wis. Lutheran (5th and 6th this week) and a loss to WashU; Hope has wins over Trine and Rose-Hulman and a lose to Trine ... I'm going to give this to DePauw for the fact they have three teams in that group versus just two for Hope.
Comparable opponents:
- Trine: Hope is 1-1; DePauw 1-0
- That's all I've got apparently.

No head-to-head.

I think it is really close. I am not sure what the non-conference SOS numbers are... it could very well be they went to secondary criteria and maybe that gave the nod to DePauw. If I am splitting hairs, I am still giving that to DePauw thanks to the non-loss to Trine and the extra (three) opponents in the vRRO.

I really don't want to continue to drag this out - as I said earlier the order is not terribly significant to me  - but I am interested in the why based on the facts.  DePauw is not 1-0 vs Trine - they are 0-0 - never played them this year.  And what three extra opponents in the vRRO - both teams are 2-1?

Maybe we can put this debate aside - at least for a couple hours until Hope plays Calvin.  Looks like Wittenberg may upset DePauw.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on February 23, 2018, 10:24:16 PM
Hope v. Calvin women's games this year have not been for the faint of heart. With Hope leading by 13 midway through the third quarter, Hope fans were settling back to savor the rest of the evening. But then Calvin's tight defense combined with a series of unlucky roll-offs for Hope let Calvin come charging back to take a 50 to 48 lead. From the 8:43 mark of the 4th quarter Hope missed 14 consecutive shots, until Francesca Buchanan tied the game with seconds left to put it into overtime.

The last seconds of regulation time offered some interesting strategy.  When Calvin collected a rebound with 37 seconds left and that 50-48 lead, Hope was guaranteed getting the ball back with at least 7 seconds and a time out that would bring the ball to their end of the court. But instead they elected four consecutive fouls and to put Calvin's best shooter at the line for two free throws. But luck (Providence?) favored Hope, as she missed both and Francesca made the game-typing basket.  At that point, with 9 seconds left, Calvin did NOT call timeout to advance the ball, but instead dribbled slowly up court and was unable to score.

Hope was very fortunate to win on 34% shooting for night, when getting out-rebounded by 12. Credit their defense--which feasted on +17 turnover margin. Perhaps that was partly attributable to the depth of Hope's bench--with 13 players on the floor, and no player having more than 33 minutes in a 45 game (unlike Calvin's starters--all but one of whom played more than 40 minutes).

Hope fans will hope for a better shooting night tomorrow. And with the upset of DePauw tonight, perhaps they can look forward to playing at home for (if they have the good fortune not to lose) five more games?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on February 24, 2018, 08:29:59 AM
Making my first trip to DeVos tonight for the Hope-Trine MIAA championship WBB game.  I've been to Holland a few times but never to a Hope game.  Trine with a good win against a young Albion squad last night that is only going to continue to get better.  Nice to see everyone contributing.  The girls are playing their best ball right now.  When Lira went down with season ending injury, moving Steers to the point and inserting Freeman into the starting lineup has worked very well.  Another key is how well Montana Martin is playing off the bench.  She's our main 3pt threat and can get to the basket too.  Our defense is rock solid, so when the offense is moving the ball around and not just looking for Dawson or Haley Martin inside every trip, we're hard to defend. 

Watched both games on video online last night.  Well, until my video feed stopped just as Hope and Calvin were starting OT, not sure what happened, couldn't figure out if it was my computer or technical difficulties with the feed.  Boy, that game was exciting.  Hope seemed to be cruising, but Calvin with an outstanding 4th qtr, hitting clutch shots and Hope going cold.  Key moment was Spayde not hitting those 2 FTs at the end, that was shocking.  Hope took advantage and tied game up at the end.  Feel bad for Calvin, they are such a good team, a little thin without Warners in there, but just some really tough losses to both Hope and Trine this year when they could have won any of them with just making a play or 2 more.  They are good enough to be a tournament team but just don't think they will be able to get an at-large bid this year. 

So the winner tonight will for certain get to host 1st round tournament next week.  Will the loser not get to host next week?  Is it too much to ask for both Trine and Hope to host or will the bracketology not allow that?  I hope the tournament can find it's way to Angola, MTI Center to too nice of a facility to be setting quiet until next year.  :)   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 24, 2018, 09:39:24 AM
Wish I could be in two places at the same time tonight, but I will be in Olivet cheering on the men's team. Definitely will be keeping an eye on the game at DeVos as well, although it's pretty much a given that both women's teams are in while for the men it's win or go home.

Side note: Frankie Buchanan is just 15 points shy of the 1000 point mark in her career with another year to come.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 24, 2018, 04:18:25 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 24, 2018, 08:29:59 AM
So the winner tonight will for certain get to host 1st round tournament next week.  Will the loser not get to host next week?  Is it too much to ask for both Trine and Hope to host or will the bracketology not allow that?  I hope the tournament can find it's way to Angola, MTI Center to too nice of a facility to be setting quiet until next year.  :)   

Last regional rankings in order were DePauw, Hope, Thomas More, Trine.

DePauw lost, either Hope or Trine will win the MIAA tournament and the other will have another loss; and I can't see Thomas More losing against the weak competition in their league tournament.  So it seems to me that the Hope/Trine winner and Thomas More will be the most likely Great Lakes hosts.  Of course all the usual NCAA calculations about travel distances etc are not considered here.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on February 25, 2018, 08:28:40 AM
If I were OldKnight (we miss you) or TUAngola I would feel snake bit. With their fellow fans, they had good reason to believe a well-earned victory was at hand with their teams on Friday and Saturday having the lead and the ball with mere seconds to go. And yet Hope somehow managed to snatch heart stopping overtime victories from both.

Last night, Hope came from 16 points down against the #6 team and needed all of Madison Geers' five points in the final 11 seconds of regulation--the last two at the buzzer on a perfectly designed and executed long in bounds pass with 1.6 seconds left. The coach looked like a genius for drawing up the pick that freed the player, but the players had to execute with no margin for error. It was stunning.

As a long-time Hope fan, I perhaps anticipated this weekend as the portal to the NCAA tournament that follows.  In hindsight, the savoring of those two exciting victories will be a great memory of its own, regardless of what follows.

And a special congrats to Francesca Buchanan, who sat out the entire 2nd quarter with two fouls and but two points at half. . . but then played with fierce determination 23 of the ensuing 25 minutes, ending up with a game-high 21 points (and 1000+ career points).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hopefan223 on February 25, 2018, 04:19:45 PM
Hi guys I think 99.5 percent hope girls will host
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on February 25, 2018, 06:42:01 PM
Congratulations to Hope last night for winning the MIAA championship.  Lots of "what ifs" played out in my mind on the drive home from Holland.  "What if" we didn't have such an awful 3rd quarter, don't know how many layups we missed, but it was a bunch.  "What if" Brandi Dawson doesn't foul out with 3 minutes to go would Trine have prevailed (I thought the refs were dreadful last night, for both sides).  "What if" Cassidy Williams makes both of her FT's with 16 seconds to go instead of 1-2 which would have put Trine up 4 rather than 3 (the "DeVos curse" for visiting teams 2 nights in a row  ::)).  "What if" Trine can get just 1 stop out of the 2 Hope possessions at the end of the game (got to give credit to Hope, their execution was flawless, especially on the out of bounds play with less than 2 seconds to go).

I don't know why in my mind that I thought Hope would surely go for the win with a 3ball that last play in regulation.  But the out of bounds play worked to perfection, eerily similar to their game up at Calvin a few weeks ago.  But it made sense for Hope to go for the tie and get the game to OT, #1 edge to Hope, Dawson is on the bench; #2 edge to Hope, they have a deeper bench, our girls looked a little gassed.  I came away very impressed with Schoonveld, she's a player, especially for only a freshman.  She almost singlehandedly kept Hope in the game the 1st half.  Buchanan is a gamer, she is a beast inside, uses her body leverage very well, not the prettiest of shots, but they go in.  But I wouldn't trade her for Haley Martin, she is so superior as a defender, the league just doesn't have a girl that can guard the post like she can (Voskuil will get there), and I thought the refs called a couple bad ones on her last night that were clear blocks, Haley knew it, the coaches knew it, but the refs automatically bail out the offensive player.  I thought Hope's on ball pressure on our guards was terrific, most D3 teams don't pressure way out on the court like that, took us out of our rhythm after the 1st quarter, which was almost flawless for Trine, probably the best quarter of basketball I've seen us play all year.   

First time to DeVos, great atmosphere and fan support, got loud at the end.  Good group of us Trine folk made the trek too, might have had 100 or so.  Guess we'll have to wait and see what pod Trine get's put in.  Was hoping for games at Angola, but that is highly unlikely now.       

 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 25, 2018, 07:33:29 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 25, 2018, 06:42:01 PM


First time to DeVos, great atmosphere and fan support, got loud at the end.  Good group of us Trine folk made the trek too, might have had 100 or so.  Guess we'll have to wait and see what pod Trine get's put in.  Was hoping for games at Angola, but that is highly unlikely now.       



Congratulations on your first DeVos visit - it is a gem!  [Sorry the result didn't give you a more pleasant ride home! :)]

I've only been there once myself (for games; been by it several times), for the first weekend of the 2012 men's national tourney.  IWU had no trouble Friday (as expected - UWSP was so injury-plagued that year that they were simply not a tourney team by tourney time).  Hope was ranked #1 in the country, and our two top guys were seriously hurting (both had surgery once the season was over [back for one, foot for the other]) - I talked with one father during halftime Friday and sat behind the other guy's grandfather the whole game: neither thought either of the guys could possibly play on Saturday.  So I arrived on Saturday with pretty low expectations.

It was one of the most incredible games I have ever seen live!  Both players were visibly grimacing in pain throughout, but they simply would not ALLOW IWU to lose.  We finally pulled away in the second overtime - and I knew right then we were destined for Salem!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on February 25, 2018, 08:57:34 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 25, 2018, 07:33:29 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 25, 2018, 06:42:01 PM


First time to DeVos, great atmosphere and fan support, got loud at the end.  Good group of us Trine folk made the trek too, might have had 100 or so.  Guess we'll have to wait and see what pod Trine get's put in.  Was hoping for games at Angola, but that is highly unlikely now.       



Congratulations on your first DeVos visit - it is a gem!  [Sorry the result didn't give you a more pleasant ride home! :)]

I've only been there once myself (for games; been by it several times), for the first weekend of the 2012 men's national tourney.  IWU had no trouble Friday (as expected - UWSP was so injury-plagued that year that they were simply not a tourney team by tourney time).  Hope was ranked #1 in the country, and our two top guys were seriously hurting (both had surgery once the season was over [back for one, foot for the other]) - I talked with one father during halftime Friday and sat behind the other guy's grandfather the whole game: neither thought either of the guys could possibly play on Saturday.  So I arrived on Saturday with pretty low expectations.

It was one of the most incredible games I have ever seen live!  Both players were visibly grimacing in pain throughout, but they simply would not ALLOW IWU to lose.  We finally pulled away in the second overtime - and I knew right then we were destined for Salem!

Trine has a gem of an arena as well.  MTI Center opened in January of this year.  Calvin, Hope and now Trine probably have 3 of the nicest D3 facilities in the country.   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 25, 2018, 10:01:09 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 25, 2018, 08:57:34 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 25, 2018, 07:33:29 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 25, 2018, 06:42:01 PM


First time to DeVos, great atmosphere and fan support, got loud at the end.  Good group of us Trine folk made the trek too, might have had 100 or so.  Guess we'll have to wait and see what pod Trine get's put in.  Was hoping for games at Angola, but that is highly unlikely now.       



Congratulations on your first DeVos visit - it is a gem!  [Sorry the result didn't give you a more pleasant ride home! :)]

I've only been there once myself (for games; been by it several times), for the first weekend of the 2012 men's national tourney.  IWU had no trouble Friday (as expected - UWSP was so injury-plagued that year that they were simply not a tourney team by tourney time).  Hope was ranked #1 in the country, and our two top guys were seriously hurting (both had surgery once the season was over [back for one, foot for the other]) - I talked with one father during halftime Friday and sat behind the other guy's grandfather the whole game: neither thought either of the guys could possibly play on Saturday.  So I arrived on Saturday with pretty low expectations.

It was one of the most incredible games I have ever seen live!  Both players were visibly grimacing in pain throughout, but they simply would not ALLOW IWU to lose.  We finally pulled away in the second overtime - and I knew right then we were destined for Salem!

Trine has a gem of an arena as well.  MTI Center opened in January of this year.  Calvin, Hope and now Trine probably have 3 of the nicest D3 facilities in the country.   

I'll hope to make it down there some time next season.  I've never seen the Trine campus (but have been close by many dozens of times on I-69).  It's only a couple of hours from Ypsi, so I really have no excuse!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 26, 2018, 03:08:06 PM
Hope women hosting as expected.  Play Cornell College on Friday - winner to face the winner of the 1st game WashU vs Wheaton. 

Trine with an awful draw in my opinion - play DePauw in the first round at Ill. Wesleyan.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 26, 2018, 03:12:11 PM
MIAA and CCIW have to go thru each other to reach the second weekend!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Enginerd on February 26, 2018, 04:34:14 PM
Trine and Depauw were screwed spectacularly by the committee - Wow what a "Pod of Death".
Trine is a VERY good team and I'm very impressed with what I saw of them this season - They are good enough to get out of this pod alive. Terrible draw though - probably the Universe responding to their claims of having an engineering program. LoL.
Seriously though, if Trine gets out of this pod, they might very well make it to Minnesota. Tough, competitive kids, and you have to respect their body of work.
Trine is my not-so Dark-Horse Final Four team.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 26, 2018, 04:45:32 PM
Trine's pairing is #6 vs #7 in the latest d3hoops.com poll (last week) being hosted by #16 Illinois Wesleyan
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 26, 2018, 04:47:50 PM
Hope's bracket seems to suggest Hope is highest seed and in line to host sectionals, however they may avoid flights and put the sectional at Thomas More if certain teams advance.

Little bit of a risky bracket flight wise.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on February 26, 2018, 04:58:21 PM
Grew up in NY and saw Cornell... And I'm like??? I thought they were an Ivy League school. Double checked and realized there is a Cornell College.
Apologies to any folks from Wisconsin.  :-[
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on February 26, 2018, 06:12:41 PM
Trine's draw is one of the worst I've ever seen.

#6 Trine vs. #17 DePauw
at #16 Illinois Wesleyan vs. Marietta (Who should probably be ranked)

Tough draw. I hate to see this happen to a team that has played so well all season. Not how I would've paired them up if it was me. That being said, I do believe that they can win this pod, but it's going to be tough.

Not the worst draw I've ever seen. That would've been 2011, when the N.C.A.A in their infinite wisdom gave us perhaps the worst pod ever...

At Hope
#4 Hope
#7 DePauw
#10 Denison
#12 Washington U.
Any one of these teams was worthy of hosting and capable of making it to the Final Four. It was a true shame to do that to these teams.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 26, 2018, 07:03:00 PM
Quote from: sac on February 26, 2018, 04:47:50 PM
Hope's bracket seems to suggest Hope is highest seed and in line to host sectionals, however they may avoid flights and put the sectional at Thomas More if certain teams advance.

Little bit of a risky bracket flight wise.

RMC can't get to Thomas More under 500 miles... so I think the hosting option is wide open.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on February 26, 2018, 07:13:19 PM
 :o

Wow...D3 committee doesn't like Trine very much, or DePauw for that matter.  Lots of good comments from you folks, and agree with you.  However it is what it is.  Trine isn't the only team to get a bad draw, but to have a #10 team in the nation (WBCA rankings as of today), DePauw, play a #11 team in the nation, Trine, IN THE VERY FIRST GAME, BOTH TEAMS ON THE ROAD NO LESS, is hard to fathom.  I doubt there is another 4 team pod where every team in it is ranked 35th (Marietta) or better, 18th IWU.  I don't think it will phase the girls though, it's always next game up for them no matter who they play.  They could very well lose the 1st game, but not without a fight.   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on February 26, 2018, 11:18:42 PM
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on February 26, 2018, 04:58:21 PM
Grew up in NY and saw Cornell... And I'm like??? I thought they were an Ivy League school. Double checked and realized there is a Cornell College.
Apologies to any folks from Wisconsin.  :-[

I think you need to apologize to the folks in Mount Vernon, Iowa  :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Enginerd on February 27, 2018, 07:43:58 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 26, 2018, 07:13:19 PM
:o

Wow...D3 committee doesn't like Trine very much, or DePauw for that matter.  Lots of good comments from you folks, and agree with you.  However it is what it is.  Trine isn't the only team to get a bad draw, but to have a #10 team in the nation (WBCA rankings as of today), DePauw, play a #11 team in the nation, Trine, IN THE VERY FIRST GAME, BOTH TEAMS ON THE ROAD NO LESS, is hard to fathom.  I doubt there is another 4 team pod where every team in it is ranked 35th (Marietta) or better, 18th IWU.  I don't think it will phase the girls though, it's always next game up for them no matter who they play.  They could very well lose the 1st game, but not without a fight.   

I agree completely - two of the best 10 teams in America are having to square off in the 1st Round. Not fair. I fully expected to see Depauw get Gustavus Adolphous and RHIT playing Trine somewhere - but it is apparent the committee valued winning one's conference this year. I'll bet if RHIT had even a slightly weaker resume, or Depauw has won the NCAC Tournament, Depauw would have gotten Gustavus at Whitewater (or IWU) and RHIT and Trine would have been duking it out. Nobody wanted to see a 20-19 final score in an NCAA Tournament game, anyway LoL
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on February 27, 2018, 09:34:42 AM
Tickets for Friday's Hope game are on sale.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on February 27, 2018, 11:50:05 AM
I still don't see any announcements from Hope about tickets for Friday's games in Holland, but I already purchased mine over the phone from the Hope ticket office, so they are already on sale.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on February 28, 2018, 02:01:22 AM
QuoteWow...D3 committee doesn't like Trine very much, or DePauw for that matter.  Lots of good comments from you folks, and agree with you.  However it is what it is.  Trine isn't the only team to get a bad draw, but to have a #10 team in the nation (WBCA rankings as of today), DePauw, play a #11 team in the nation, Trine, IN THE VERY FIRST GAME, BOTH TEAMS ON THE ROAD NO LESS, is hard to fathom.  I doubt there is another 4 team pod where every team in it is ranked 35th (Marietta) or better, 18th IWU.  I don't think it will phase the girls though, it's always next game up for them no matter who they play.  They could very well lose the 1st game, but not without a fight.   

I think Trine is really good and have them Top 10 on my ballot, but their numerical resume is less impressive than you might think when you look at the specific criteria the NCAA uses. When we did our mock selections, they were the 14th of 20 teams to get picked. Trine's losses were all really close and to excellent teams, but their record against regionally ranked opponents was 1-3 this year. The only team with a worse winning percentage
in that key category was the other Thunder (Wheaton), who were 1-4. Their SOS was also on the low side for at-large selections.


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on February 28, 2018, 08:09:34 PM
















































StatHopeCornell
Record26-120-5
Scoring73.163.7
Scoring Defense50.455.1
Scoring Margin+22.7+8.6
Field Goals26.222.9
Opp. Field Goals18.619.7
Field Goal Margin+7.6+3.2
FG Attempts62.462.0
FG Percent42.037.0
Opp. FG Percent32.639.4
FG Pct. Margin+9.4-2.4
3-Point FG6.87.7
Opp. 3-Point FG4.25.5
3-Point Margin+2.6+2.2
3-Point Attempts19.926.1
3-Point Percent34.129.6
Opp. 3FG Percent23.233.1
3FG Pct. Margin+10.9-3.5
Free Throws13.910.0
Opp. Free Throws9.110.0
FT Margin+4.80.0
FT Attempts20.616.0
FT Percent67.362.7
Personal Fouls15.418.1
Opponent Fouls17.116.3
Foul Margin-1.7+1.8
Off. Rebounds15.114.1
Def. Rebounds28.621.8
Total Rebounds43.735.9
Opp. Rebounds35.338.0
Rebound Margin+8.4-2.1
Assists13.214.8
Opponent Assists9.913.0
Assist Margin+3.3+1.8
Turnovers15.013.4
Opp. Turnovers19.622.3
Turnover Margin-4.6-8.9
A/TO Ratio0.91.1
Opponent A/TO0.50.6
Steals10.912.9
Opponent Steals6.46.6
Steals Margin+4.5+6.3
Blocks3.82.2
Opponent Blocks3.92.2
Blocks Margin-0.10.0
Attendance1275250
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: GoPerry on March 01, 2018, 12:33:46 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on February 28, 2018, 08:09:34 PM
















































StatHopeCornell
Record26-120-5
Scoring73.163.7
Scoring Defense50.455.1
Scoring Margin+22.7+8.6
Field Goals26.222.9
Opp. Field Goals18.619.7
Field Goal Margin+7.6+3.2
FG Attempts62.462.0
FG Percent42.037.0
Opp. FG Percent32.639.4
FG Pct. Margin+9.4-2.4
3-Point FG6.87.7
Opp. 3-Point FG4.25.5
3-Point Margin+2.6+2.2
3-Point Attempts19.926.1
3-Point Percent34.129.6
Opp. 3FG Percent23.233.1
3FG Pct. Margin+10.9-3.5
Free Throws13.910.0
Opp. Free Throws9.110.0
FT Margin+4.80.0
FT Attempts20.616.0
FT Percent67.362.7
Personal Fouls15.418.1
Opponent Fouls17.116.3
Foul Margin-1.7+1.8
Off. Rebounds15.114.1
Def. Rebounds28.621.8
Total Rebounds43.735.9
Opp. Rebounds35.338.0
Rebound Margin+8.4-2.1
Assists13.214.8
Opponent Assists9.913.0
Assist Margin+3.3+1.8
Turnovers15.013.4
Opp. Turnovers19.622.3
Turnover Margin-4.6-8.9
A/TO Ratio0.91.1
Opponent A/TO0.50.6
Steals10.912.9
Opponent Steals6.46.6
Steals Margin+4.5+6.3
Blocks3.82.2
Opponent Blocks3.92.2
Blocks Margin-0.10.0
Attendance1275250

Team GPA?  Mean shoe size?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on March 01, 2018, 01:05:44 PM
Quote from: GoPerry on March 01, 2018, 12:33:46 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on February 28, 2018, 08:09:34 PM
















































StatHopeCornell
Record26-120-5
Scoring73.163.7
Scoring Defense50.455.1
Scoring Margin+22.7+8.6
Field Goals26.222.9
Opp. Field Goals18.619.7
Field Goal Margin+7.6+3.2
FG Attempts62.462.0
FG Percent42.037.0
Opp. FG Percent32.639.4
FG Pct. Margin+9.4-2.4
3-Point FG6.87.7
Opp. 3-Point FG4.25.5
3-Point Margin+2.6+2.2
3-Point Attempts19.926.1
3-Point Percent34.129.6
Opp. 3FG Percent23.233.1
3FG Pct. Margin+10.9-3.5
Free Throws13.910.0
Opp. Free Throws9.110.0
FT Margin+4.80.0
FT Attempts20.616.0
FT Percent67.362.7
Personal Fouls15.418.1
Opponent Fouls17.116.3
Foul Margin-1.7+1.8
Off. Rebounds15.114.1
Def. Rebounds28.621.8
Total Rebounds43.735.9
Opp. Rebounds35.338.0
Rebound Margin+8.4-2.1
Assists13.214.8
Opponent Assists9.913.0
Assist Margin+3.3+1.8
Turnovers15.013.4
Opp. Turnovers19.622.3
Turnover Margin-4.6-8.9
A/TO Ratio0.91.1
Opponent A/TO0.50.6
Steals10.912.9
Opponent Steals6.46.6
Steals Margin+4.5+6.3
Blocks3.82.2
Opponent Blocks3.92.2
Blocks Margin-0.10.0
Attendance1275250

Team GPA?  Mean shoe size?
It's impolite to ask a lady her shoe size!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Enginerd on March 02, 2018, 01:29:55 PM
It is obvious, after looking at the final regional rankings, that the committee actually did a decent job with what they had. RHIT jumping Trine in the regional rankings is the reason Trine is at IWU and Rose at UWW - Plus I'm sure the committee didn't want to give DePauw a rematch with RHIT in the 1st Round, Trine had spent more than enough time in Holland this year, and Wartburg was going to be WAY too far to send the Thunder.
It all makes sense now.
Depauw should be a cautionary tale for teams to win their AQ or the road will be a LOT longer and tougher than otherwise.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on March 02, 2018, 08:22:30 PM
Quote from: Enginerd on March 02, 2018, 01:29:55 PM
It is obvious, after looking at the final regional rankings, that the committee actually did a decent job with what they had. RHIT jumping Trine in the regional rankings is the reason Trine is at IWU and Rose at UWW - Plus I'm sure the committee didn't want to give DePauw a rematch with RHIT in the 1st Round, Trine had spent more than enough time in Holland this year, and Wartburg was going to be WAY too far to send the Thunder.
It all makes sense now.
Depauw should be a cautionary tale for teams to win their AQ or the road will be a LOT longer and tougher than otherwise.

I think your logic makes a lot of sense.  But also to note, Trine could have gone to Wartburg based on mileage.  476 miles officially.

https://web1.ncaa.org/TES/exec/miles
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 03, 2018, 05:59:20 AM
Strong night for MIAA WBB last night. 

Trine gave up an uncharacteristic 39 points to DePauw in the first half then settled in and clamped down by allowing a more Trine-like 21 in the 2nd.  Martin and Dawson very good as usual with typical high shooting percentage. Will be an interesting game vs. IWU which likes to play pressure defense and speed it up a bit, quite the contrast to Trine.  Massey favors IWU by 16 at home, which seems crazy to me.  I think this one will be very close but give Trine the edge.  They beat IWU in the tournament last year (neutral court then while IWU is at home this time) and the Thunder have everyone from that game back, so they know they can do it.  Their win at Devos has shown they have the toughness to go on to a strong team's home court and come away with a win. 

Hope cruised against overmatched Cornell.  Very balanced scoring with usual double double by Buchanan.  No one played more than 24 minutes so the Dutch should be well rested for tonight's game vs. WashU.  The Bears handled a good Wheaton team quite easily and Massey has this game as a 50/50.  In this case, I think Massey has it about right.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on March 03, 2018, 08:48:18 AM
I looked on Massey on Thursday and it had Wash U. beating hope by about eight points at the time. It also had Wheaton beating Hope by about a dozen and Hope beating Cornell by 15.  I just find Massey to be very unreliable. Way too numbers driven.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 03, 2018, 09:33:03 AM
Quote from: Dutchfan on March 03, 2018, 08:48:18 AM
I looked on Massey on Thursday and it had Wash U. beating hope by about eight points at the time. It also had Wheaton beating Hope by about a dozen and Hope beating Cornell by 15.  I just find Massey to be very unreliable. Way too numbers driven.

In past years I was pretty impressed with Massey predictions.  I know it doesn't make sense but it seems much less accurate this year, at least for the games I've checked.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on March 03, 2018, 10:02:55 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 03, 2018, 05:59:20 AM
Strong night for MIAA WBB last night. 

Trine gave up an uncharacteristic 39 points to DePauw in the first half then settled in and clamped down by allowing a more Trine-like 21 in the 2nd.  Martin and Dawson very good as usual with typical high shooting percentage. Will be an interesting game vs. IWU which likes to play pressure defense and speed it up a bit, quite the contrast to Trine.  Massey favors IWU by 16 at home, which seems crazy to me.  I think this one will be very close but give Trine the edge.  They beat IWU in the tournament last year (neutral court then while IWU is at home this time) and the Thunder have everyone from that game back, so they know they can do it.  Their win at Devos has shown they have the toughness to go on to a strong team's home court and come away with a win. 

Hope cruised against overmatched Cornell.  Very balanced scoring with usual double double by Buchanan.  No one played more than 24 minutes so the Dutch should be well rested for tonight's game vs. WashU.  The Bears handled a good Wheaton team quite easily and Massey has this game as a 50/50.  In this case, I think Massey has it about right.

Trine with an impressive win over an outstanding DePauw team last night.  Going to correct Roundball999, they gave up 29 pts in the 1st half.  39 would have been VERY uncharacteristic of this team, however that may not be the case tonight against IWU.  Their scoring from this season is very impressive, several games over 100 pts.  Will be interesting on who imposes their type of game on each other.  Trine with more of a slower pace, although they can run a little bit too.  But sounds like IWU is full on get up and go with full court pressure.  IWU with added incentive of getting knocked out by Trine last year.   

A win tonight by Trine would be an unbelievable first weekend considering the tournament stacked against them in the first 2 rounds.  I think George Fox is the only other team in the tournament that has had to face 2 ranked teams in the opening rounds.  They get #2 Wartburg tonight. 

GO THUNDER!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 03, 2018, 10:17:50 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on March 03, 2018, 10:02:55 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 03, 2018, 05:59:20 AM
Strong night for MIAA WBB last night. 

Trine gave up an uncharacteristic 39 points to DePauw in the first half then settled in and clamped down by allowing a more Trine-like 21 in the 2nd.  Martin and Dawson very good as usual with typical high shooting percentage. Will be an interesting game vs. IWU which likes to play pressure defense and speed it up a bit, quite the contrast to Trine.  Massey favors IWU by 16 at home, which seems crazy to me.  I think this one will be very close but give Trine the edge.  They beat IWU in the tournament last year (neutral court then while IWU is at home this time) and the Thunder have everyone from that game back, so they know they can do it.  Their win at Devos has shown they have the toughness to go on to a strong team's home court and come away with a win. 

Hope cruised against overmatched Cornell.  Very balanced scoring with usual double double by Buchanan.  No one played more than 24 minutes so the Dutch should be well rested for tonight's game vs. WashU.  The Bears handled a good Wheaton team quite easily and Massey has this game as a 50/50.  In this case, I think Massey has it about right.

Trine with an impressive win over an outstanding DePauw team last night.  Going to correct Roundball999, they gave up 29 pts in the 1st half.  39 would have been VERY uncharacteristic of this team, however that may not be the case tonight against IWU.  Their scoring from this season is very impressive, several games over 100 pts.  Will be interesting on who imposes their type of game on each other.  Trine with more of a slower pace, although they can run a little bit too.  But sounds like IWU is full on get up and go with full court pressure.  IWU with added incentive of getting knocked out by Trine last year.   

A win tonight by Trine would be an unbelievable first weekend considering the tournament stacked against them in the first 2 rounds.  I think George Fox is the only other team in the tournament that has had to face 2 ranked teams in the opening rounds.  They get #2 Wartburg tonight. 

GO THUNDER!

Thanks for the correction, it seemed so unusual for Trine that I should have checked the math. Even more impressive to hold DePauw to 21 in the 2nd.  Good luck to the Thunder tonight.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Enginerd on March 03, 2018, 11:57:09 AM
If Trine's two D-I transfers can stay out if foul trouble - they will handle IWU easily. IWU was not terribly deep to begin with, and they lost a starter recently to an ACL tear and their most athletic post player to the flu - and it looks like she won't be dressing at all this weekend, per the CCIW Board.
IWU relies primarily on speeding the game up and turning the other team over and rely in their (usually) superior athleticism. The biggest issue for them offensively is that their best two players (Ehresman and McGraw) rely on a lot of transition points (Ehresman) and mid-range jumpers (McGraw). Rose-Hulman gave them fits and, but for a missed free-throw with no time on the clock, would have played IWU to OT, at a minimum. Physical, defensive-oriented teams give them trouble historically - and Trine is a nightmare match-up. IWU only wins this game if they get 25-30 from McGraw and Merrit holds her own in the post.
If Trine can hold IWU to fewer than 58 points, they will win.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on March 03, 2018, 12:31:20 PM
Quote from: Enginerd on March 03, 2018, 11:57:09 AM
If Trine's two D-I transfers can stay out if foul trouble - they will handle IWU easily. IWU was not terribly deep to begin with, and they lost a starter recently to an ACL tear and their most athletic post player to the flu - and it looks like she won't be dressing at all this weekend, per the CCIW Board.
IWU relies primarily on speeding the game up and turning the other team over and rely in their (usually) superior athleticism. The biggest issue for them offensively is that their best two players (Ehresman and McGraw) rely on a lot of transition points (Ehresman) and mid-range jumpers (McGraw). Rose-Hulman gave them fits and, but for a missed free-throw with no time on the clock, would have played IWU to OT, at a minimum. Physical, defensive-oriented teams give them trouble historically - and Trine is a nightmare match-up. IWU only wins this game if they get 25-30 from McGraw and Merrit holds her own in the post.
If Trine can hold IWU to fewer than 58 points, they will win.

Yes both Haley Martin and Brandi Dawson were transfers to Trine's program 2 years ago.  However only Brandi came from DI, she was at Wright State in Ohio for 1 year, but I believe she redshirted her freshman year.  Haley transferred from Ave Maria, a DII school in Florida after her freshman year.  Both have been tremendous additions to Trine WBB.  With Brandi her game probably wasn't a good fit at DI, she was very undersized at the 4 for that level, but at DIII she can thrive at being at 5'9 PF for the most part with her skills.  Both Haley and Brandi are local area kids in NE Indiana, Haley from Auburn and Brandi from Garrett, which are only 20-25 minutes from Trine's campus in Angola. 

Even with the illness and injury to key IWU players, you can't underestimate getting to play on your home floor and how huge that is.  I am not sure if Trine will be able to overcome that advantage, but not without giving it all they got.     
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: RogK on March 03, 2018, 02:40:39 PM
IWU's injured players are :
5'8" Sydney Shanks - started all 21 games prior to hand injury -- an excellent defender including 12 blks and 52 stls in 513:00; decent scorer (46% on 2FGs)  and good rebounder and had 67/29 A/TO.
5'10" Raven Hughes - started 1 game, subbed in 25 games -- ACL -- also a fine defender, including 12 blks 23 stls in 489:00; very quick agile scorer near the basket .679 FG% (only one 3FG).
Both players did a lot of things well and were important components of IWU's substantially good (now reduced) depth.
https://static.cciw.org/custompages/CCIW_Links/WBasketball/Stats/1718/iwu.htm
The absence of these players has (in my opinion) caused IWU to reduce their fullcourt pressing -- pretty sure it was much less than half of Marietta's possessions, as well as in recent CCIW games.
Yes, McGraw is of major importance scoring-wise, as her leaping ability (I think she won the D3 high jump as a sophomore) enables her to get shots off in situations where most anyone else can't. But, last evening was her 4th time reaching 20 pts in her 27 games. It's not like the Titans have had to get 20+ from her in order to win.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Enginerd on March 03, 2018, 03:17:41 PM
Trine is good, and they are a stronger, more athletic version of RHIT, which gave IWU fits. Should be the best game of the 2nd Round and I would not be one bit surprised to see Trine move on.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on March 03, 2018, 03:30:35 PM
Which conference supplied the officials for Hope's game last night?

I thought they did a mediocre job (I'm trying to be polite). I don't know how many times I saw Francesca Buchanan get mobbed and no fouled were called.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Enginerd on March 03, 2018, 04:06:53 PM
Did not cost them the game, but officiating was really bad up in Whitewater last night. I presume officials want to "let the players, not the officals" decide the outcome. In something as important as an NCAA Tournament game - that means the games are very physical. Plus, these people are not truly great officials to begin with. Nobody wants to be the one that potentially blows the whistle on a game-ending scrum under the basket.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 03, 2018, 09:26:51 PM
Great win for the Dutch tonight over an always tough WashU team.  Trine still managing small lead late in the game vs. IWU.  Great showing for the MIAA in the first weekend.  It occurs to me that this shows Calvin probably had a better team than was recognized this year, playing Hope and Trine tough in every game but just never quite breaking through. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hopefan223 on March 03, 2018, 09:36:48 PM
When do we find out do you think hope girls will play home we need to know
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 03, 2018, 09:43:51 PM
Final in Bloomington: Trine 79, IWU 70.  The Titans ALMOST came all the way back from a double-digit deficit (63-61), but then Trine pulled away again.

Congratulations to Trine - and to the MIAA for putting TWO teams in the Sweet Sixteen.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on March 03, 2018, 09:56:02 PM
Quote from: Hopefan223 on March 03, 2018, 09:36:48 PM
When do we find out do you think hope girls will play home we need to know

They normally announce this on Sunday afternoon.  My guess is that Hope will host.  They finished #1 in the region over Thomas More.  Christopher Newport and Gustavus Adolphus both finished #5 in their regions.  There are 2 flights needed no matter if Hope or Thomas More hosted, so Hope gets it I think.

I think Sweet 16 hosts will be Amherst, Hope, Tufts, Wartburg (with Trine going to Wartburg, they can drive barely).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on March 03, 2018, 11:54:07 PM
The MIAA is one of only four conferences to remain undefeated, and one of only two conferences with multiple teams in the tournament.







ConferenceTeamsRecord
NECSCAC36-0
MIAA24-0
IIAC12-0
PAC12-0
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Rofrog on March 03, 2018, 11:57:30 PM
No way will tufts host over Scranton 28-1
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Rofrog on March 04, 2018, 12:00:40 AM
I see it Amherst,Scranton,Thomas More and Wartburg.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballfan13 on March 04, 2018, 12:33:52 AM
Quote from: Rofrog on March 04, 2018, 12:00:40 AM
I see it Amherst,Scranton,Thomas More and Wartburg.

Agree with Scranton over Tufts, missed that one. And I checked and Bowdoin can get to Scranton by bus and not a flight.

Thomas More won't host over Hope. Hope was #1 in the Great Lakes Region and Thomas More #2 in the final rankings. And Christopher Newport and Gustavus Adolphus have to fly no matter what.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Rofrog on March 04, 2018, 01:18:17 AM
So then Amherst,Hope,Scranton and Wartburg?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on March 04, 2018, 08:00:34 AM
Congrats to Trine on big win over IWU last night.  Off to the Sweet 16 for first time in their DIII program history.

Huge contributions from unexpected gals keyed the victory.  Cassidy Williams (20 pts) and Kayla Freeman (21 pts) both with career highs.  Cassidy's offensive output is especially noteworthy as she is the "defensive specialist" on the team, is an "in your face" type, which rubs off on everyone else.  If Cassidy isn't on the floor fighting for loose balls at least half dozen times a game then you know she's had on off night, ha! On the other hand it's been Kayla's lack of defensive play that has kept her on the bench as a sub for most of her 2 years at Trine, Kayla's always has had the offensive game.  Only when starter Camille Lira went down in January with a season ending knee injury did Kayla's minutes increase and Coach inserted her into the starting 5.  I believe Trine has been playing their best basketball when she got into the lineup.  Her defensive play has improved as she is not thinking about making that defensive mistake that's going to put her back on the bench anymore and just does what Kayla can do.

Now we have a trip to Wartburg to take on the #2 Knights.  Wartburg has been very impressive in their tournament wins, will take a near flawless game by the Thunder to get the "W", but why not Trine?  Let's do this!!

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 04, 2018, 12:24:40 PM
Hope women are hosting again!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Enginerd on March 04, 2018, 06:25:44 PM
Told you Trine would win.
Don't think they are quite deep enough or dynamic enough to win it all - but they are a legit Final Four team.
...but once they get there...who knows?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 04, 2018, 06:42:32 PM
Quote from: Enginerd on March 04, 2018, 06:25:44 PM
Told you Trine would win.
Don't think they are quite deep enough or dynamic enough to win it all - but they are a legit Final Four team.
...but once they get there...who knows?

You didn't have to convince me.  As a Hope fan, I knew how tough they are.  They returned everyone who was on the team that beat IWU last year and to my eyes, they've improved by a fair bit since then.  It just didn't figure to me that they'd lose this year to IWU, even on their home court.  But IWU is a great team and on any given night....

The Thunder were dead even with Amherst entering the 4th quarter earlier this year so yeah, I think they can play with anyone.  At this point everyone is good and it often comes down to something simple, like the team that gets a hot hand.

Good luck to the Hope women too, their chance to avenge being knocked out by CNU last year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HOPEful on March 05, 2018, 11:54:12 AM
Way to go Dutch and Thunder! The NCAA did Trine 0 favors by giving them the stretch of games against the #12, #14, #2, #6 teams in the country... just to reach the final four.

Hope, in contrast got an unranked, unranked, #18, #3, all at DeVos.

I do LOVE that the NCAA got them on opposite sides of the bracket. I never like seeing conference rivals meet early in the playoffs. Only way for the Hope and Trine to get a 4th meeting is in Rochester!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 05, 2018, 12:17:58 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on March 05, 2018, 11:54:12 AM
Way to go Dutch and Thunder! The NCAA did Trine 0 favors by giving them the stretch of games against the #12, #14, #2, #6 teams in the country... just to reach the final four.

Hope, in contrast got an unranked, unranked, #18, #3, all at DeVos.

I do LOVE that the NCAA got them on opposite sides of the bracket. I never like seeing conference rivals meet early in the playoffs. Only way for the Hope and Trine to get a 4th meeting is in Rochester!

Clearly there's not much difference between Trine and Hope.  The NCAA bracket does though graphically illustrate the value of Hope winning 2 of 3 and more importantly the conference tournament with AQ.  And I'm sure both teams are happy that they won't have to meet again unless they are fortunate enough to make it to Rochester.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on March 05, 2018, 02:16:00 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 05, 2018, 12:17:58 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on March 05, 2018, 11:54:12 AM
Way to go Dutch and Thunder! The NCAA did Trine 0 favors by giving them the stretch of games against the #12, #14, #2, #6 teams in the country... just to reach the final four.

Hope, in contrast got an unranked, unranked, #18, #3, all at DeVos.

I do LOVE that the NCAA got them on opposite sides of the bracket. I never like seeing conference rivals meet early in the playoffs. Only way for the Hope and Trine to get a 4th meeting is in Rochester!

Clearly there's not much difference between Trine and Hope.  The NCAA bracket does though graphically illustrate the value of Hope winning 2 of 3 and more importantly the conference tournament with AQ.  And I'm sure both teams are happy that they won't have to meet again unless they are fortunate enough to make it to Rochester.
In order for Hope and Trine to meet, Hope will likely have to knock off no.1 Amherst in the semi-finals.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Swish3 on March 05, 2018, 03:32:53 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on March 05, 2018, 02:16:00 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 05, 2018, 12:17:58 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on March 05, 2018, 11:54:12 AM
Way to go Dutch and Thunder! The NCAA did Trine 0 favors by giving them the stretch of games against the #12, #14, #2, #6 teams in the country... just to reach the final four.

Hope, in contrast got an unranked, unranked, #18, #3, all at DeVos.

I do LOVE that the NCAA got them on opposite sides of the bracket. I never like seeing conference rivals meet early in the playoffs. Only way for the Hope and Trine to get a 4th meeting is in Rochester!

Clearly there's not much difference between Trine and Hope.  The NCAA bracket does though graphically illustrate the value of Hope winning 2 of 3 and more importantly the conference tournament with AQ.  And I'm sure both teams are happy that they won't have to meet again unless they are fortunate enough to make it to Rochester.
In order for Hope and Trine to meet, Hope will likely have to knock off no.1 Amherst in the semi-finals.

...and hope that Hope doesn't get knocked off trying to get there.  The Flying Dutch will have home court advantage, but CNU and More are no slouches, particularly More.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 05, 2018, 03:41:18 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on March 05, 2018, 11:54:12 AM
Way to go Dutch and Thunder! The NCAA did Trine 0 favors by giving them the stretch of games against the #12, #14, #2, #6 teams in the country... just to reach the final four.

Hope, in contrast got an unranked, unranked, #18, #3, all at DeVos.

I do LOVE that the NCAA got them on opposite sides of the bracket. I never like seeing conference rivals meet early in the playoffs. Only way for the Hope and Trine to get a 4th meeting is in Rochester!

Reminiscent of Hope's national championship run in 2006, although they did get to start with an unranked team (but also played all 6 games on the road).  That year in the NCAAs Hope defeated:

Denison (unranked)
Capital #10
Wash U #3
DePauw #4
Scranton #2
Southern Maine #1
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 05, 2018, 03:42:47 PM
Quote from: Swish3 on March 05, 2018, 03:32:53 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on March 05, 2018, 02:16:00 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 05, 2018, 12:17:58 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on March 05, 2018, 11:54:12 AM
Way to go Dutch and Thunder! The NCAA did Trine 0 favors by giving them the stretch of games against the #12, #14, #2, #6 teams in the country... just to reach the final four.

Hope, in contrast got an unranked, unranked, #18, #3, all at DeVos.

I do LOVE that the NCAA got them on opposite sides of the bracket. I never like seeing conference rivals meet early in the playoffs. Only way for the Hope and Trine to get a 4th meeting is in Rochester!

Clearly there's not much difference between Trine and Hope.  The NCAA bracket does though graphically illustrate the value of Hope winning 2 of 3 and more importantly the conference tournament with AQ.  And I'm sure both teams are happy that they won't have to meet again unless they are fortunate enough to make it to Rochester.
In order for Hope and Trine to meet, Hope will likely have to knock off no.1 Amherst in the semi-finals.

...and hope that Hope doesn't get knocked off trying to get there.  The Flying Dutch will have home court advantage, but CNU and More are no slouches, particularly More.
Indeed, I see that CNU not only beat Hope in the tournament last year en route to the Final Four, but also graduated no one with significant playing minutes from that team. And Thomas More is #3 ranked team, ahead of Hope.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 05, 2018, 03:58:27 PM
Quote from: pointlem on March 05, 2018, 03:42:47 PM
Quote from: Swish3 on March 05, 2018, 03:32:53 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on March 05, 2018, 02:16:00 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 05, 2018, 12:17:58 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on March 05, 2018, 11:54:12 AM
Way to go Dutch and Thunder! The NCAA did Trine 0 favors by giving them the stretch of games against the #12, #14, #2, #6 teams in the country... just to reach the final four.

Hope, in contrast got an unranked, unranked, #18, #3, all at DeVos.

I do LOVE that the NCAA got them on opposite sides of the bracket. I never like seeing conference rivals meet early in the playoffs. Only way for the Hope and Trine to get a 4th meeting is in Rochester!

Clearly there's not much difference between Trine and Hope.  The NCAA bracket does though graphically illustrate the value of Hope winning 2 of 3 and more importantly the conference tournament with AQ.  And I'm sure both teams are happy that they won't have to meet again unless they are fortunate enough to make it to Rochester.
In order for Hope and Trine to meet, Hope will likely have to knock off no.1 Amherst in the semi-finals.

...and hope that Hope doesn't get knocked off trying to get there.  The Flying Dutch will have home court advantage, but CNU and More are no slouches, particularly More.
Indeed, I see that CNU not only beat Hope in the tournament last year en route to the Final Four, but also graduated no one with significant playing minutes from that team. And Thomas More is #3 ranked team, ahead of Hope.

And Thomas More was "upset" by Hope in the tournament last year
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Swish3 on March 05, 2018, 04:22:43 PM
Quote from: pointlem on March 05, 2018, 03:42:47 PM
Quote from: Swish3 on March 05, 2018, 03:32:53 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on March 05, 2018, 02:16:00 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 05, 2018, 12:17:58 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on March 05, 2018, 11:54:12 AM
Way to go Dutch and Thunder! The NCAA did Trine 0 favors by giving them the stretch of games against the #12, #14, #2, #6 teams in the country... just to reach the final four.

Hope, in contrast got an unranked, unranked, #18, #3, all at DeVos.

I do LOVE that the NCAA got them on opposite sides of the bracket. I never like seeing conference rivals meet early in the playoffs. Only way for the Hope and Trine to get a 4th meeting is in Rochester!

Clearly there's not much difference between Trine and Hope.  The NCAA bracket does though graphically illustrate the value of Hope winning 2 of 3 and more importantly the conference tournament with AQ.  And I'm sure both teams are happy that they won't have to meet again unless they are fortunate enough to make it to Rochester.
In order for Hope and Trine to meet, Hope will likely have to knock off no.1 Amherst in the semi-finals.

...and hope that Hope doesn't get knocked off trying to get there.  The Flying Dutch will have home court advantage, but CNU and More are no slouches, particularly More.
Indeed, I see that CNU not only beat Hope in the tournament last year en route to the Final Four, but also graduated no one with significant playing minutes from that team. And Thomas More is #3 ranked team, ahead of Hope.

Yes, CNU made a very nice run last year and returned virtually everyone...unfortunately, though, I think they underperformed in a couple of big games this season.  They actually played More on a neutral court before Christmas, and were handled easily...I'm sure More is better than CNU, but not 30 points better.  They also blew a 5 point lead w/50 seconds to go at Marymount, which was for the conference tournament championship...of course, prior to that game, they lost at home on senior night w/a chance at hosting the conference tourney on the line.  So, they've had a few hiccups along the way, given such high expectations...we'll see if they can redeem themselves a bit this weekend...it will be tough, but they're capable.   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on March 05, 2018, 04:36:42 PM
Looking forward to getting off the east coast of the Division III landscape and covering the games at Wartburg's sectional this weekend. If there are any fans from Trine who want to stop by and say hello, please do.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 05, 2018, 04:53:19 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on March 05, 2018, 04:36:42 PM
Looking forward to getting off the east coast of the Division III landscape and covering the games at Wartburg's sectional this weekend. If there are any fans from Trine who want to stop by and say hello, please do.

Anyone from "The Mothership of D3" coming to Holland this weekend?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 05, 2018, 05:02:48 PM
Quote from: Swish3 on March 05, 2018, 03:32:53 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on March 05, 2018, 02:16:00 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 05, 2018, 12:17:58 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on March 05, 2018, 11:54:12 AM
Way to go Dutch and Thunder! The NCAA did Trine 0 favors by giving them the stretch of games against the #12, #14, #2, #6 teams in the country... just to reach the final four.

Hope, in contrast got an unranked, unranked, #18, #3, all at DeVos.

I do LOVE that the NCAA got them on opposite sides of the bracket. I never like seeing conference rivals meet early in the playoffs. Only way for the Hope and Trine to get a 4th meeting is in Rochester!

Clearly there's not much difference between Trine and Hope.  The NCAA bracket does though graphically illustrate the value of Hope winning 2 of 3 and more importantly the conference tournament with AQ.  And I'm sure both teams are happy that they won't have to meet again unless they are fortunate enough to make it to Rochester.
In order for Hope and Trine to meet, Hope will likely have to knock off no.1 Amherst in the semi-finals.

...and hope that Hope doesn't get knocked off trying to get there.  The Flying Dutch will have home court advantage, but CNU and More are no slouches, particularly More.

At this level of the tournament, I think any team can lose on a given night.  Hope knocked off undefeated More last year on More's home court.  In the next round Hope lost to CNU on a neutral court; this year they'll have home court advantage at Devos.  But I'm not predicting Hope wins by any stretch, just that they've shown they are capable of winning these games. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on March 05, 2018, 07:57:09 PM
Trine vs. Wartburg in the postseason...AGAIN!  (Trine lost to Wartburg in the D3 football playoffs this past fall...they are our nemesis!! ::))

Obviously Wartburg is an outstanding team, you have to be special to go thru the grind of a season undefeated.  Ranked #2 in the nation.  Other than that I don't know much about their team so I went to their athletics page and read all I could on them.  Play in the IIAC, western region team (to me Iowa isn't west but to D3 it is).  Starting lineup appears to be very senior dominated.  Katie Sommer was player of the year in the IIAC and has scored over 1400 pts in her career at Wartburg.  Their schedule didn't appear to be too challenging, however they did play UW Whitewater and won.  They are a pretty good offensive team, average 78 ppg, can shoot it well, get to the FT line way more than their opponents, outrebound, create more turnovers, really do everything very well.  They had around 3 or 4 close games, but other than that won all pretty handily. 

They completely demolished their opponents in the tournament so far, 86-45 over Webster and 82-58 over #12 George Fox.  Looks like the key for Trine is to not let Wartburg get off to a fast start.  If we can stay with them the 1st quarter we might have a shot to be there at the end.  Dawson needs to stay out of foul trouble and we'll need big contributions from other gals besides Dawson and Haley Martin like we did against IWU.   

If anyone has seen Wartburg play this year please feel free to give us a scouting report.  Doesn't sound like they have any weaknesses at all.   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on March 06, 2018, 08:44:50 PM
Looks like the NCAA has lucked out. If Hope does indeed make it to the final four the driving distance, according to map quest, from Hope College to the Mayo Civic Center in Rochester, MN is 499 miles.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 06, 2018, 10:58:20 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on March 06, 2018, 08:44:50 PM
Looks like the NCAA has lucked out. If Hope does indeed make it to the final four the driving distance, according to map quest, from Hope College to the Mayo Civic Center in Rochester, MN is 499 miles.
Dutchfan . . . depends where they start?  Google Maps has it 503 miles from DeVos Fieldhouse.  :D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 07, 2018, 07:43:23 AM
Quote from: pointlem on March 06, 2018, 10:58:20 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on March 06, 2018, 08:44:50 PM
Looks like the NCAA has lucked out. If Hope does indeed make it to the final four the driving distance, according to map quest, from Hope College to the Mayo Civic Center in Rochester, MN is 499 miles.
Dutchfan . . . depends where they start?  Google Maps has it 503 miles from DeVos Fieldhouse.

On the official NCAA mileage site it's 499 each way, so they're driving.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 07, 2018, 08:09:12 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 07, 2018, 07:43:23 AM
Quote from: pointlem on March 06, 2018, 10:58:20 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on March 06, 2018, 08:44:50 PM
Looks like the NCAA has lucked out. If Hope does indeed make it to the final four the driving distance, according to map quest, from Hope College to the Mayo Civic Center in Rochester, MN is 499 miles.
Dutchfan . . . depends where they start?  Google Maps has it 503 miles from DeVos Fieldhouse.

On the official NCAA mileage site it's 499 each way, so they're driving.

Let's Hope they are!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HOPEful on March 07, 2018, 08:32:30 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 07, 2018, 08:09:12 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 07, 2018, 07:43:23 AM
Quote from: pointlem on March 06, 2018, 10:58:20 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on March 06, 2018, 08:44:50 PM
Looks like the NCAA has lucked out. If Hope does indeed make it to the final four the driving distance, according to map quest, from Hope College to the Mayo Civic Center in Rochester, MN is 499 miles.
Dutchfan . . . depends where they start?  Google Maps has it 503 miles from DeVos Fieldhouse.

On the official NCAA mileage site it's 499 each way, so they're driving.

Let's Hope they are!!
Agreed! :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 07, 2018, 04:23:50 PM
I've still never seen evidence the NCAA uses the pathway through Canada as its official mileage distance between New York schools and MIAA schools.

While its technically under 500 miles, its asking a lot for a college to put together all the necessary paper work for essentially 4 border crossings in a weeks time.  Its 580 miles going South along Lake Erie.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 07, 2018, 04:28:23 PM
Quote from: sac on March 07, 2018, 04:23:50 PM
I've still never seen evidence the NCAA uses the pathway through Canada as its official mileage distance between New York schools and MIAA schools.

While its technically under 500 miles, its asking a lot for a college to put together all the necessary paper work for essentially 4 border crossings in a weeks time.  Its 580 miles going South along Lake Erie.

They don't. We saw that last year when initially Geneseo was going to get to host, but then the NCAA realized the mileage was through Canada and changed the decision.

But that isn't part of this discussion, is it? I may have missed something. LOL
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 07, 2018, 04:49:28 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on March 06, 2018, 08:44:50 PM
Looks like the NCAA has lucked out. If Hope does indeed make it to the final four the driving distance, according to map quest, from Hope College to the Mayo Civic Center in Rochester, MN is 499 miles.
Quote from: pointlem on March 06, 2018, 10:58:20 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on March 06, 2018, 08:44:50 PM
Looks like the NCAA has lucked out. If Hope does indeed make it to the final four the driving distance, according to map quest, from Hope College to the Mayo Civic Center in Rochester, MN is 499 miles.
Dutchfan . . . depends where they start?  Google Maps has it 503 miles from DeVos Fieldhouse.  :D
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 07, 2018, 07:43:23 AM
Quote from: pointlem on March 06, 2018, 10:58:20 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on March 06, 2018, 08:44:50 PM
Looks like the NCAA has lucked out. If Hope does indeed make it to the final four the driving distance, according to map quest, from Hope College to the Mayo Civic Center in Rochester, MN is 499 miles.
Dutchfan . . . depends where they start?  Google Maps has it 503 miles from DeVos Fieldhouse.

On the official NCAA mileage site it's 499 each way, so they're driving.

That is literally exactly what they're talking about  ???
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on March 07, 2018, 04:58:05 PM
Quote from: sac on March 07, 2018, 04:49:28 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on March 06, 2018, 08:44:50 PM
Looks like the NCAA has lucked out. If Hope does indeed make it to the final four the driving distance, according to map quest, from Hope College to the Mayo Civic Center in Rochester, MN is 499 miles.
Quote from: pointlem on March 06, 2018, 10:58:20 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on March 06, 2018, 08:44:50 PM
Looks like the NCAA has lucked out. If Hope does indeed make it to the final four the driving distance, according to map quest, from Hope College to the Mayo Civic Center in Rochester, MN is 499 miles.
Dutchfan . . . depends where they start?  Google Maps has it 503 miles from DeVos Fieldhouse.  :D
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 07, 2018, 07:43:23 AM
Quote from: pointlem on March 06, 2018, 10:58:20 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on March 06, 2018, 08:44:50 PM
Looks like the NCAA has lucked out. If Hope does indeed make it to the final four the driving distance, according to map quest, from Hope College to the Mayo Civic Center in Rochester, MN is 499 miles.
Dutchfan . . . depends where they start?  Google Maps has it 503 miles from DeVos Fieldhouse.

On the official NCAA mileage site it's 499 each way, so they're driving.

That is literally exactly what they're talking about  ???
I think you are mistaken. The final four is in Rochester MINNESOTA, not New York.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 07, 2018, 11:24:51 PM
Well then yes, I am mistaken.

It's 1860 miles along the southern route of Lake Erie to Rochester, MN.   Still have to go through Canada though.


.....carry on.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on March 08, 2018, 12:38:42 AM
Quote from: sac on March 07, 2018, 11:24:51 PM
Well then yes, I am mistaken.

It's 1860 miles along the southern route of Lake Erie to Rochester, MN.   Still have to go through Canada though.


.....carry on.
Umm, Lake Erie is east of Hope College. Rochester, Minnesota is west of Hope College.

From Hope College's Administrative address to the address of the Mayo Civic center is 499 miles.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 08, 2018, 07:31:31 AM

Of course, they also have to win two games this weekend for the privilege.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 08, 2018, 10:55:57 AM
Quote from: Dutchfan on March 08, 2018, 12:38:42 AM
Quote from: sac on March 07, 2018, 11:24:51 PM
Well then yes, I am mistaken.

It's 1860 miles along the southern route of Lake Erie to Rochester, MN.   Still have to go through Canada though.


.....carry on.
Umm, Lake Erie is east of Hope College. Rochester, Minnesota is west of Hope College.

From Hope College's Administrative address to the address of the Mayo Civic center is 499 miles.

It was a joke at my expense, I would never go that way.......unless I wanted to.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 08, 2018, 11:25:45 AM
Hope Sectional

Offensive efficiency or Points per possession

Thomas More               1.22
Gustavus-Adolphus     1.04     
Hope                           1.02
Christopher Newport   .95

Sizeable advantage in scoring pace for Thomas More


Defensive efficiency
Thomas More                .70
Gustavus-Adolphus       .79     
Hope                             .71
Christopher Newport    .68

On a scale of 1 to 10 these are probably all 9's or 10's on the defensive side of things.


Pace or possessions per game
Thomas More                71.1
Gustavus-Adolphus       69.47   
Hope                             71.98
Christopher Newport    81.11

Christopher Newport is a bit more up tempo here than the other 3.  Unfortunately I have no context to know what constitutes fast or slow in the women's game.


Four Factors

eFG%                   Off             Def
Thomas More                 56.1             37.1
Gustavus-Adolphus        49.1             45.6     
Hope                              47.4             36.5
Christopher Newport     42.1             41.8

Thomas More is the offensive standout here by a lot.

Rebounding         %Off rebounds   Opp%Off rebounds

Thomas More                        45.7                           29.6
Gustavus-Adolphus               39.1                           32.0     
Hope                                     40.2                           23.3
Christopher Newport            46.5                           30.2

All 4 appear to be strong offensive rebounding teams and at least create a wide margin in rebounding by being good at the other end.  Hope seems pretty strong of the defensive boards.  All 3 games might swing with whoever wins these battles.


FT Rate
Thomas More                27.8            24.4
Gustavus-Adolphus       28.4           30.2
Hope                             34.3            23.1
Christopher Newport    33.3            37.6

Hope stands out as both a team that gets to the line a lot and keeps the other team off the line.  Other than that I don't have a lot of context here.


Turnover Rate
                                 TO rate          Opp TO rate             Margin
Thomas More                16.7                 28.2                    11.46
Gustavus-Adolphus       20.8                 31.8                    11.06
Hope                             20.2                 26.5                       6.3
Christopher Newport    22.9                 37.6                     14.67


These numbers suggest a lot of pressure defense and 4 teams that really thrive on creating turnovers.  CNU's number looks a bit insane to me, that's either great full court pressure D or a really bad level of play in their general area of the country.  At this level of the tournament I would doubt you'll see high turnover rates like these.  The team that relies less on turnovers might thrive here, that might be Hope or the team that controls the ball best, Thomas More.


Besides Thomas More looking like a possible team of cyborgs sent to inhabit your planet and win all the trophies this looks like a pretty strong Sectional  with 3 sort of close to even teams and a Gustavus Adolphus team that looks like it will have a difficult time with Thomas More.   I think Thomas More looks like the favorite, but never discount the home court factor (Hope), or the revenge factor for last years defeats (Hope and Thomas More)




Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 08, 2018, 11:39:14 AM
This is Hope's 10th Sectional appearance (1 more in what was considered Regionals in 1990).  Third time hosting the Sweet 16 round (1990, 2002), those games were played at the Dow Center.

I am a little bit dumbfounded that this is the Hope women's first time hosting a Sectional round in DeVos Fieldhouse.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on March 08, 2018, 03:15:45 PM
Quote from: sac on March 08, 2018, 11:39:14 AM
This is Hope's 10th Sectional appearance (1 more in what was considered Regionals in 1990).  Third time hosting the Sweet 16 round (1990, 2002), those games were played at the Dow Center.

I am a little bit dumbfounded that this is the Hope women's first time hosting a Sectional round in DeVos Fieldhouse.
I believe the Hope men may have something to do with that.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on March 08, 2018, 03:18:54 PM
Coach Morehouse will be a guest tonight on Hoopsville.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 08, 2018, 05:17:16 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on March 08, 2018, 03:15:45 PM
Quote from: sac on March 08, 2018, 11:39:14 AM
This is Hope's 10th Sectional appearance (1 more in what was considered Regionals in 1990).  Third time hosting the Sweet 16 round (1990, 2002), those games were played at the Dow Center.

I am a little bit dumbfounded that this is the Hope women's first time hosting a Sectional round in DeVos Fieldhouse.
I believe the Hope men may have something to do with that.

That and the women's committee also had a burr up... well, they had a few years when a school like Hope (or IWU) was hosting the championship weekend they didn't want them hosting all three weekends. That nearly happened, but sometimes they shipped the women to another place if they had an excuse to do it.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 08, 2018, 05:17:29 PM
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The Sectional Round games are here. Soon 16 teams on both the men's and women's brackets will be whittled to eight ... and before we know it just four will remain.

Who will advance, who will fall short of the final weekend, and who is best prepared? Hard to answer all of those questions, but on Thursday's edition of Hoopsville Dave will have plenty of guests who will give us their insight on their programs.

Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. You can watch the show LIVE starting at 7pm ET right here:http://bit.ly/2FBCA0N.

If you have questions, be sure to email them to hoopsville@d3hoops.com or interact with the show via the social media avenues.

Guests include (in order of appearance):
- Bob Amsberry, No. 2 Wartburg women's coach
- Brian Morehouse, No. 4 Hope women's coach (WBCA Center Court)
- Glenn Robinson, Franklin & Marshall men's coach
- Charlie Brock, Springfield men's coach
- Eric Bridgeland, No. 1 Whitman men's coach
- Jim Scheible, No. 16 Rochester women's coach

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Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 08, 2018, 05:18:13 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on March 08, 2018, 03:18:54 PM
Coach Morehouse will be a guest tonight on Hoopsville.

Yes - and it is a great interview. Always like chatting with Brian, but he really has some great thoughts this show (if you notice, this means I have already recorded the interview LOL).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 09, 2018, 08:58:18 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 08, 2018, 05:18:13 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on March 08, 2018, 03:18:54 PM
Coach Morehouse will be a guest tonight on Hoopsville.

Yes - and it is a great interview. Always like chatting with Brian, but he really has some great thoughts this show (if you notice, this means I have already recorded the interview LOL).

Agreed, it was a great interview.  Coach Mo is quite a man running a great program that is not just about hoops.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on March 09, 2018, 06:13:15 PM
At the half in Holland...

Thomas More ....... 32
Gustavus Adolphus 29
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 09, 2018, 10:41:22 PM
Congratulations to Hope, though that game was tougher than I was expecting.  Thomas More looked pretty damn good tonight, but since Sidney Moss ain't suiting up in the DeVos tomorrow, I think you will taken 'em out.

Congratulations to Trine on a GREAT season.  I confess I underestimated Wartburg - their schedule was not the toughest in the world, but they are a legitimately undefeated team nonetheless.  I'd say they have as good a chance as anyone at winning the whole enchilada.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dykstraj@hope.edu on March 09, 2018, 10:42:59 PM
Hope wins 68-64     :) :) :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 09, 2018, 10:56:28 PM
The game was just about as tough as a lot of us were expecting, Mr. Ypsi . . . though a bunch of missed open layups and 12 missed free throws didn't help. But defense offset that, and with Francesca on the floor instead of the bench, Hope seemed the better team. Olivia's 6 blocks, 7 rebounds, and two clutch free throws with the game on the line were also big . . . though not bigger than Kenedy swishing two free throws with 18 seconds left. Finally, a shout-out to Celina King, who was pulled into the game to shoot two free throws after a teammate had a poke in the eye knocking out a contact. Not only did she calmly swish the two shots, she also did the same with an open 3 just seconds later . . . and those 5 quick points, in the end, were the margin of victory.

CNU's press seemed brilliantly effective, forcing Hope into long passes and shortening the shot clock, and with few easy baskets coming off it. I thought it kept them in the game.

Massey has TMC, which earlier this season defeated CNU 86 to 53, a heavy (81%) favorite tomorrow night. But if Hope can stay out of first half foul trouble and shoot like it's capable . . .

The top five teams are all still playing in the Elite 8 . . . but with #3 TMC vs. #4 Hope, the top 4 cannot make it to next weekend.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2018, 11:21:40 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 09, 2018, 10:41:22 PM
Congratulations to Hope, though that game was tougher than I was expecting.  Thomas More looked pretty damn good tonight, but since Sidney Moss ain't suiting up in the DeVos tomorrow, I think you will taken 'em out.

Congratulations to Trine on a GREAT season.  I confess I underestimated Wartburg - their schedule was not the toughest in the world, but they are a legitimately undefeated team nonetheless.  I'd say they have as good a chance as anyone at winning the whole enchilada.

FYI - Thomas More was a darn good program before Moss arrived and proving to be good after. Abby Owings is a damn good player and she lead them to their second only national title, not Moss, because her play in the championship against Tufts was outstanding.

I think Hope matches up well, but that will not be an easy game whatsoever.

I was impressed Hope was able to come back against CNU, but that game showed a lot for both teams. That was a terrific game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on March 10, 2018, 10:18:05 AM
Trine ran into a buzzsaw at Wartburg as the Knights continue to dominate the tournament so far with a 78-54 victory over the Thunder.  Wartburg is certainly one of the more impressive shooting teams you'll see in D3, you aren't going to win many games when your opponent shoots 53% from the field and 64% from beyond the arc.  And this was against the number 2 scoring defense in the nation in Trine.  Now Wartburg faces the Cinderella story of the tournament so far, East Texas Baptist as they took out St Thomas.

Trine loses 5 to graduation: Lucy Sare, the ultimate program player, didn't see much playing time over her 4 years, but a great teammate and kept the girls grounded. Jayde Abenth, backup center to Haley, had some good games over her 2 years after transferring from community college to Trine. Kayla Freeman, another community college transfer who had some terrific games over the last half of this season when inserted into the starting lineup, played big against IWU to get Trine to the Sweet 16.  Ashley Elliott, a 4 year player, worked very hard to become a key role player for the Thunder, was hampered this year in dealing with knee injury, just didn't have the bounce she normally had.  And finally Haley Martin, a key cog that helped turn the Trine program into a league champion and tournament team.  She had an outstanding 3 years at Trine after transferring from D2.  Very good around the basket, but could also step out and shoot the 3.  2 time MIAA defensive player of the year, was our "stopper" around the basket.

Congrats Trine on another outstanding season.  Trine returns 3 starters for next year, plus some key reserves, and get starting PG back from knee injury.  Got makings of a good class coming in, some 6 footers too, which is needed when you are competing with Hope and their bigs.

Good luck in the Elite 8 tonight Hope!  Thomas More is very, very good, but I expect Hope to really go at them and win!     
 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 10, 2018, 08:47:43 PM
Great season by the Flying Dutch comes to an end with a 72-57 loss to Tomas More. Close game for 3 quarters and then the Saints simply outplayed Hope in the fourth to advance to the final four. A well deserved victory.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on March 10, 2018, 09:09:12 PM
The key stats of the game...
Turnovers
Hope                 21
Thomas More 14

Points off TO's
Hope                 11
Thomas More 27
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 10, 2018, 09:22:57 PM
I remarked to Mrs. Pointlem while leaving for the game that I expected to return home with a long face (from a loss) but not too long a face--because this team has exceeded expectations, not to mention treating us to a string of thrilling, memorable, gutsy wins.

At the season's beginning some of us were hoping that this young team might achieve this level of record and play next year. The not-too-long face is because they did so a year early, and with so much promise for the long-term future.

Kudos to the four seniors, both for their play and for their contagious joy. And congrats, also, to the Trine women . . . who, after splitting the first two games with Hope and taking the third to overtime, showed themselves to be Hope's equal.

P.S. Interesting all the Final Four women's teams were ranked in the d3Hoops top 5 . . . and that none of the Final Four men's teams were ranked in their top 20.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on March 10, 2018, 10:41:17 PM
I agree completely, pointlem.  With six freshmen and three sophmores on Hope's varsity this year, including two freshman starting at the guard position, and freshman "bigs" like Voskuil (6'3") and Thomas (6'2"), along with soph Tolbert getting a lot of playing time this year, the future looks bright.

Plus we have MIAA first team Frankie coming back for her senior year.

Now if we can just add this player...http://localsportsjournal.com/2018/02/senior-standouts-beckman-mussell-ready-for-one-more-tournament-ride-with-shelby/  I saw where one publication had her listed as a Miss Basketball candidate.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Swish3 on March 12, 2018, 09:31:54 AM
Quote from: pointlem on March 09, 2018, 10:56:28 PM
The game was just about as tough as a lot of us were expecting, Mr. Ypsi . . . though a bunch of missed open layups and 12 missed free throws didn't help. But defense offset that, and with Francesca on the floor instead of the bench, Hope seemed the better team. Olivia's 6 blocks, 7 rebounds, and two clutch free throws with the game on the line were also big . . . though not bigger than Kenedy swishing two free throws with 18 seconds left. Finally, a shout-out to Celina King, who was pulled into the game to shoot two free throws after a teammate had a poke in the eye knocking out a contact. Not only did she calmly swish the two shots, she also did the same with an open 3 just seconds later . . . and those 5 quick points, in the end, were the margin of victory.

CNU's press seemed brilliantly effective, forcing Hope into long passes and shortening the shot clock, and with few easy baskets coming off it. I thought it kept them in the game.

Massey has TMC, which earlier this season defeated CNU 86 to 53, a heavy (81%) favorite tomorrow night. But if Hope can stay out of first half foul trouble and shoot like it's capable . . .

The top five teams are all still playing in the Elite 8 . . . but with #3 TMC vs. #4 Hope, the top 4 cannot make it to next weekend.

You make it sound like CNU was struggling to stay w/in 10 points of Hope...they press the entire game, every game...it's what they do.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Swish3 on March 12, 2018, 09:55:52 AM
Quote from: Dutchfan on March 10, 2018, 09:09:12 PM
The key stats of the game...
Turnovers
Hope                 21
Thomas More 14

Points off TO's
Hope                 11
Thomas More 27

Key stats of the game:

Fouls
CNU - 28
Hope - 14

Free Throws
CNU - 8/10
Hope - 22/34
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 12, 2018, 10:23:08 AM
Quote from: Swish3 on March 12, 2018, 09:55:52 AM
Quote from: Dutchfan on March 10, 2018, 09:09:12 PM
The key stats of the game...
Turnovers
Hope                 21
Thomas More 14

Points off TO's
Hope                 11
Thomas More 27

Key stats of the game:

Fouls
CNU - 28
Hope - 14

Free Throws
CNU - 8/10
Hope - 22/34

Not surprising, considering CNU is 406th out of 450 schools in fouls per game (avg 20.1).  They play an aggressive pressing defense and generate a lot of fouls.  Hope on the other hand is 88th out of 450 in fouls per game (avg 15.5).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Swish3 on March 12, 2018, 11:28:34 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 12, 2018, 10:23:08 AM
Quote from: Swish3 on March 12, 2018, 09:55:52 AM
Quote from: Dutchfan on March 10, 2018, 09:09:12 PM
The key stats of the game...
Turnovers
Hope                 21
Thomas More 14

Points off TO's
Hope                 11
Thomas More 27

Key stats of the game:

Fouls
CNU - 28
Hope - 14

Free Throws
CNU - 8/10
Hope - 22/34

Not surprising, considering CNU is 406th out of 450 schools in fouls per game (avg 20.1).  They play an aggressive pressing defense and generate a lot of fouls.  Hope on the other hand is 88th out of 450 in fouls per game (avg 15.5).

I expect CNU to have more fouls, but not twice as many...the difference in their average is less than five per game, yet they called CNU for 14 more than Hope...that's a problem.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 12, 2018, 12:58:00 PM
Quote from: Swish3 on March 12, 2018, 11:28:34 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 12, 2018, 10:23:08 AM
Quote from: Swish3 on March 12, 2018, 09:55:52 AM
Quote from: Dutchfan on March 10, 2018, 09:09:12 PM
The key stats of the game...
Turnovers
Hope                 21
Thomas More 14

Points off TO's
Hope                 11
Thomas More 27

Key stats of the game:

Fouls
CNU - 28
Hope - 14

Free Throws
CNU - 8/10
Hope - 22/34

Not surprising, considering CNU is 406th out of 450 schools in fouls per game (avg 20.1).  They play an aggressive pressing defense and generate a lot of fouls.  Hope on the other hand is 88th out of 450 in fouls per game (avg 15.5).

I expect CNU to have more fouls, but not twice as many...the difference in their average is less than five per game, yet they called CNU for 14 more than Hope...that's a problem.

If you watched the game objectively you saw that CNU was far more physical and they pressed all over the court, the entire game.  There is no rule that dictates the proportion of fouls between teams.  In my opinion the refs called it as it played out on the court.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 12, 2018, 01:04:30 PM
This ^^^ ... too many people think fouls should be equal. TOO many people (drives me nuts at games when that is a popular call out).

Hope played well, but CNU was aggressive and usually aggressive teams cause more fouls. Kind of like seeing a foul discrepancy for a team playing against a man-to-man and attacking versus the other team playing against a zone and passing around the perimeter. No, not saying that's what happened in this game, but point out that styles of play dictate foul totals... not rules that say it is supposed to be even headed.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 12, 2018, 01:47:22 PM
Quote from: Swish3 on March 12, 2018, 11:28:34 AM
I expect CNU to have more fouls, but not twice as many...the difference in their average is less than five per game, yet they called CNU for 14 more than Hope...that's a problem.

It's only a problem if the game was being called unfairly.  I thought the officiating for all 3 games at the De Vos this weekend was done very well and fairly.

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 12, 2018, 01:04:30 PM
This ^^^ ... too many people think fouls should be equal. TOO many people (drives me nuts at games when that is a popular call out).

Hope played well, but CNU was aggressive and usually aggressive teams cause more fouls. Kind of like seeing a foul discrepancy for a team playing against a man-to-man and attacking versus the other team playing against a zone and passing around the perimeter. No, not saying that's what happened in this game, but point out that styles of play dictate foul totals... not rules that say it is supposed to be even headed.

Guessing you meant to type a different word, but I actually like this a lot better :)

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 12, 2018, 02:06:52 PM
Yeah... even "handed" ... oops. Trying to do too much. I should be ignoring the boards today to get all my work done for this week. We see how well that is working.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Swish3 on March 12, 2018, 02:23:53 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 12, 2018, 12:58:00 PM
Quote from: Swish3 on March 12, 2018, 11:28:34 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 12, 2018, 10:23:08 AM
Quote from: Swish3 on March 12, 2018, 09:55:52 AM
Quote from: Dutchfan on March 10, 2018, 09:09:12 PM
The key stats of the game...
Turnovers
Hope                 21
Thomas More 14

Points off TO's
Hope                 11
Thomas More 27

Key stats of the game:

Fouls
CNU - 28
Hope - 14

Free Throws
CNU - 8/10
Hope - 22/34

Not surprising, considering CNU is 406th out of 450 schools in fouls per game (avg 20.1).  They play an aggressive pressing defense and generate a lot of fouls.  Hope on the other hand is 88th out of 450 in fouls per game (avg 15.5).

I expect CNU to have more fouls, but not twice as many...the difference in their average is less than five per game, yet they called CNU for 14 more than Hope...that's a problem.

If you watched the game objectively you saw that CNU was far more physical and they pressed all over the court, the entire game.  There is no rule that dictates the proportion of fouls between teams.  In my opinion the refs called it as it played out on the court.

Thanks for the enlightening words....
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Swish3 on March 12, 2018, 02:36:39 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 12, 2018, 01:04:30 PM
This ^^^ ... too many people think fouls should be equal. TOO many people (drives me nuts at games when that is a popular call out).

Hope played well, but CNU was aggressive and usually aggressive teams cause more fouls. Kind of like seeing a foul discrepancy for a team playing against a man-to-man and attacking versus the other team playing against a zone and passing around the perimeter. No, not saying that's what happened in this game, but point out that styles of play dictate foul totals... not rules that say it is supposed to be even headed.

Go back and read what I said, Dave...I said I expect CNU to have more fouls than their opponents, but not twice as many.  Per FDF, they average 20.1 fouls per game...being called for 8 above their average is a lot...Hope shooting 24 more free throws is hard to defend.   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Swish3 on March 12, 2018, 02:42:44 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 12, 2018, 01:47:22 PM
Quote from: Swish3 on March 12, 2018, 11:28:34 AM
I expect CNU to have more fouls, but not twice as many...the difference in their average is less than five per game, yet they called CNU for 14 more than Hope...that's a problem.

It's only a problem if the game was being called unfairly.  I thought the officiating for all 3 games at the De Vos this weekend was done very well and fairly.

Easy for you to say...anyone able to dig up the replay of Fancher being knocked down while attempting a 3 w/14 seconds to go?  At game speed, it looked like an obvious foul...if so, it simply has to be called.

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 12, 2018, 01:04:30 PM
This ^^^ ... too many people think fouls should be equal. TOO many people (drives me nuts at games when that is a popular call out).

Hope played well, but CNU was aggressive and usually aggressive teams cause more fouls. Kind of like seeing a foul discrepancy for a team playing against a man-to-man and attacking versus the other team playing against a zone and passing around the perimeter. No, not saying that's what happened in this game, but point out that styles of play dictate foul totals... not rules that say it is supposed to be even headed.

Guessing you meant to type a different word, but I actually like this a lot better :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Swish3 on March 12, 2018, 03:05:20 PM
Quote from: Swish3 on March 12, 2018, 02:42:44 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 12, 2018, 01:47:22 PM
Quote from: Swish3 on March 12, 2018, 11:28:34 AM
I expect CNU to have more fouls, but not twice as many...the difference in their average is less than five per game, yet they called CNU for 14 more than Hope...that's a problem.

It's only a problem if the game was being called unfairly.  I thought the officiating for all 3 games at the De Vos this weekend was done very well and fairly.

Easy for you to say...anyone able to dig up the replay of Fancher being knocked down while attempting a 3 w/14 seconds to go?  At game speed, it looked like an obvious foul...if so, it simply has to be called.

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 12, 2018, 01:04:30 PM
This ^^^ ... too many people think fouls should be equal. TOO many people (drives me nuts at games when that is a popular call out).

Hope played well, but CNU was aggressive and usually aggressive teams cause more fouls. Kind of like seeing a foul discrepancy for a team playing against a man-to-man and attacking versus the other team playing against a zone and passing around the perimeter. No, not saying that's what happened in this game, but point out that styles of play dictate foul totals... not rules that say it is supposed to be even headed.

Guessing you meant to type a different word, but I actually like this a lot better :)

Just watched it on YouTube...looks like the Hope defender got under Fancher on the follow through and the ref was literally right in front of them...that's a terrible no call at a crucial time.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 12, 2018, 03:59:04 PM
Quote from: Swish3 on March 12, 2018, 02:36:39 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 12, 2018, 01:04:30 PM
This ^^^ ... too many people think fouls should be equal. TOO many people (drives me nuts at games when that is a popular call out).

Hope played well, but CNU was aggressive and usually aggressive teams cause more fouls. Kind of like seeing a foul discrepancy for a team playing against a man-to-man and attacking versus the other team playing against a zone and passing around the perimeter. No, not saying that's what happened in this game, but point out that styles of play dictate foul totals... not rules that say it is supposed to be even headed.

Go back and read what I said, Dave...I said I expect CNU to have more fouls than their opponents, but not twice as many.  Per FDF, they average 20.1 fouls per game...being called for 8 above their average is a lot...Hope shooting 24 more free throws is hard to defend.   

You can expect more calls... you just can't also have a line of demarcation as to how many is enough. A team shooting more FTs is easy to defend if a team is fouling more often especially on drives by Hope. The discrepency... needs to stop being an arguing point. FTs come from more fouls being called and another team being both aggressive on defense and the other on offense. It happens. It is part of the game. The fact they should be closer than they are is an argument I don't like. It makes it seem the officials should even the calls out or the FT attempts. I think that is a BS reasoning.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on March 12, 2018, 04:10:40 PM
Quote from: Swish3 on March 12, 2018, 02:36:39 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 12, 2018, 01:04:30 PM
This ^^^ ... too many people think fouls should be equal. TOO many people (drives me nuts at games when that is a popular call out).

Hope played well, but CNU was aggressive and usually aggressive teams cause more fouls. Kind of like seeing a foul discrepancy for a team playing against a man-to-man and attacking versus the other team playing against a zone and passing around the perimeter. No, not saying that's what happened in this game, but point out that styles of play dictate foul totals... not rules that say it is supposed to be even headed.

Go back and read what I said, Dave...I said I expect CNU to have more fouls than their opponents, but not twice as many.  Per FDF, they average 20.1 fouls per game...being called for 8 above their average is a lot...Hope shooting 24 more free throws is hard to defend.   
Swish, the referees are not there to keep the score close or give teams an equal number of free throws. The referees are there to enforce the rules of the game. Nothing more, nothing less. On top of that, they are only human, even more so at the division three level.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 12, 2018, 04:15:15 PM
I was at the game and just reviewed the replay and I saw something very different.  No contact on the shot and the CNU shooter falling from being off balance after the shot and the Hope player turning and putting a body on her to box out.  As you said, the ref was right there and made no call.  From my perspective and vantage point, it would have been a terrible call had it been made.  But at this point there's little value in debating individual calls, one can just as easily look at the video and see heavy contact on the press throughout the game and argue that many more fouls could have been called than were.  But in my view it was just two very good teams that battled hard and the refs letting them play with just enough calls to keep the game under control.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Swish3 on March 12, 2018, 04:47:58 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 12, 2018, 03:59:04 PM
Quote from: Swish3 on March 12, 2018, 02:36:39 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 12, 2018, 01:04:30 PM
This ^^^ ... too many people think fouls should be equal. TOO many people (drives me nuts at games when that is a popular call out).

Hope played well, but CNU was aggressive and usually aggressive teams cause more fouls. Kind of like seeing a foul discrepancy for a team playing against a man-to-man and attacking versus the other team playing against a zone and passing around the perimeter. No, not saying that's what happened in this game, but point out that styles of play dictate foul totals... not rules that say it is supposed to be even headed.

Go back and read what I said, Dave...I said I expect CNU to have more fouls than their opponents, but not twice as many.  Per FDF, they average 20.1 fouls per game...being called for 8 above their average is a lot...Hope shooting 24 more free throws is hard to defend.   

You can expect more calls... you just can't also have a line of demarcation as to how many is enough. A team shooting more FTs is easy to defend if a team is fouling more often especially on drives by Hope. The discrepency... needs to stop being an arguing point. FTs come from more fouls being called and another team being both aggressive on defense and the other on offense. It happens. It is part of the game. The fact they should be closer than they are is an argument I don't like. It makes it seem the officials should even the calls out or the FT attempts. I think that is a BS reasoning.

Nobody has a line, but when it's that lopsided and the statistics support it, I can sure as heck conclude that it was excessive.  Whether you like it or not, there are times when this is a completely legitimate issue...CNU is aggressive offensively, as well.  Per their website, they averaged 24 FT attempts per game, while their opponents averaged 20...so, CNU attempted 14 less and Hope 14 more.  Am I to believe that they played this game any differently than the others?  That's a big spread, particularly in a close game....   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Swish3 on March 12, 2018, 04:54:30 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on March 12, 2018, 04:10:40 PM
Quote from: Swish3 on March 12, 2018, 02:36:39 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 12, 2018, 01:04:30 PM
This ^^^ ... too many people think fouls should be equal. TOO many people (drives me nuts at games when that is a popular call out).

Hope played well, but CNU was aggressive and usually aggressive teams cause more fouls. Kind of like seeing a foul discrepancy for a team playing against a man-to-man and attacking versus the other team playing against a zone and passing around the perimeter. No, not saying that's what happened in this game, but point out that styles of play dictate foul totals... not rules that say it is supposed to be even headed.

Go back and read what I said, Dave...I said I expect CNU to have more fouls than their opponents, but not twice as many.  Per FDF, they average 20.1 fouls per game...being called for 8 above their average is a lot...Hope shooting 24 more free throws is hard to defend.   
Swish, the referees are not there to keep the score close or give teams an equal number of free throws. The referees are there to enforce the rules of the game. Nothing more, nothing less. On top of that, they are only human, even more so at the division three level.

Agreed, but compared to the season statistics, this game was an anomaly....
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 12, 2018, 04:58:37 PM
Quote from: Swish3 on March 12, 2018, 04:47:58 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 12, 2018, 03:59:04 PM
Quote from: Swish3 on March 12, 2018, 02:36:39 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 12, 2018, 01:04:30 PM
This ^^^ ... too many people think fouls should be equal. TOO many people (drives me nuts at games when that is a popular call out).

Hope played well, but CNU was aggressive and usually aggressive teams cause more fouls. Kind of like seeing a foul discrepancy for a team playing against a man-to-man and attacking versus the other team playing against a zone and passing around the perimeter. No, not saying that's what happened in this game, but point out that styles of play dictate foul totals... not rules that say it is supposed to be even headed.

Go back and read what I said, Dave...I said I expect CNU to have more fouls than their opponents, but not twice as many.  Per FDF, they average 20.1 fouls per game...being called for 8 above their average is a lot...Hope shooting 24 more free throws is hard to defend.   

You can expect more calls... you just can't also have a line of demarcation as to how many is enough. A team shooting more FTs is easy to defend if a team is fouling more often especially on drives by Hope. The discrepency... needs to stop being an arguing point. FTs come from more fouls being called and another team being both aggressive on defense and the other on offense. It happens. It is part of the game. The fact they should be closer than they are is an argument I don't like. It makes it seem the officials should even the calls out or the FT attempts. I think that is a BS reasoning.

Nobody has a line, but when it's that lopsided and the statistics support it, I can sure as heck conclude that it was excessive.  Whether you like it or not, there are times when this is a completely legitimate issue...CNU is aggressive offensively, as well.  Per their website, they averaged 24 FT attempts per game, while their opponents averaged 20...so, CNU attempted 14 less and Hope 14 more.  Am I to believe that they played this game any differently than the others?  That's a big spread, particularly in a close game....

So let's assume the game is being called differently than the norm for CNU - heck that happens to lots of teams in this tournament.  Different officials from different conferences call things differently - it was different for Hope as well.  Players and teams need to adjust to what is being called or suffer the consequences.  Agree or disagree on the fouls being called - the officials were certainly consistent throughout the game - IMHO.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Swish3 on March 12, 2018, 05:04:31 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 12, 2018, 04:15:15 PM
I was at the game and just reviewed the replay and I saw something very different.  No contact on the shot and the CNU shooter falling from being off balance after the shot and the Hope player turning and putting a body on her to box out.  As you said, the ref was right there and made no call.  From my perspective and vantage point, it would have been a terrible call had it been made.  But at this point there's little value in debating individual calls, one can just as easily look at the video and see heavy contact on the press throughout the game and argue that many more fouls could have been called than were.  But in my view it was just two very good teams that battled hard and the refs letting them play with just enough calls to keep the game under control.

If she was off balance, it was because the Hope defender got up under her right arm and didn't allow her to come down...sure, both of us could review the video and argue calls, or lack there of, but this one seemed pretty obvious and it wasn't called, which is inexcusable, particularly when the ref is right there on top of it.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Swish3 on March 12, 2018, 05:08:20 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 12, 2018, 04:58:37 PM
Quote from: Swish3 on March 12, 2018, 04:47:58 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 12, 2018, 03:59:04 PM
Quote from: Swish3 on March 12, 2018, 02:36:39 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 12, 2018, 01:04:30 PM
This ^^^ ... too many people think fouls should be equal. TOO many people (drives me nuts at games when that is a popular call out).

Hope played well, but CNU was aggressive and usually aggressive teams cause more fouls. Kind of like seeing a foul discrepancy for a team playing against a man-to-man and attacking versus the other team playing against a zone and passing around the perimeter. No, not saying that's what happened in this game, but point out that styles of play dictate foul totals... not rules that say it is supposed to be even headed.

Go back and read what I said, Dave...I said I expect CNU to have more fouls than their opponents, but not twice as many.  Per FDF, they average 20.1 fouls per game...being called for 8 above their average is a lot...Hope shooting 24 more free throws is hard to defend.   

You can expect more calls... you just can't also have a line of demarcation as to how many is enough. A team shooting more FTs is easy to defend if a team is fouling more often especially on drives by Hope. The discrepency... needs to stop being an arguing point. FTs come from more fouls being called and another team being both aggressive on defense and the other on offense. It happens. It is part of the game. The fact they should be closer than they are is an argument I don't like. It makes it seem the officials should even the calls out or the FT attempts. I think that is a BS reasoning.

Nobody has a line, but when it's that lopsided and the statistics support it, I can sure as heck conclude that it was excessive.  Whether you like it or not, there are times when this is a completely legitimate issue...CNU is aggressive offensively, as well.  Per their website, they averaged 24 FT attempts per game, while their opponents averaged 20...so, CNU attempted 14 less and Hope 14 more.  Am I to believe that they played this game any differently than the others?  That's a big spread, particularly in a close game....

So let's assume the game is being called differently than the norm for CNU - heck that happens to lots of teams in this tournament.  Different officials from different conferences call things differently - it was different for Hope as well.  Players and teams need to adjust to what is being called or suffer the consequences.  Agree or disagree on the fouls being called - the officials were certainly consistent throughout the game - IMHO.

How so?

...and, yes, I agree that they were consistently bad.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on March 12, 2018, 06:14:41 PM
Swish, this is not an anomaly. It's happened before. In fact, this was the sixth time that CNU got called for more than 25 fouls. At Marymount, CNU got called for 30 fouls and Marymount was called for 20, leading Marymount to shoot 42 free throws, twice what CNU did.

Swish, if the Hope game is worthy of complaint, then an NCAA investigation should be opened into the game at Salisbury, where CNU was flagged for just 7 fouls while Salisbury was called for 25 fouls. This lead to CNU shooting 22 more free throws than Salisbury in a game that CNU won by 16 points.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 12, 2018, 06:22:07 PM
Quote from: Swish3 on March 12, 2018, 05:04:31 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 12, 2018, 04:15:15 PM
I was at the game and just reviewed the replay and I saw something very different.  No contact on the shot and the CNU shooter falling from being off balance after the shot and the Hope player turning and putting a body on her to box out.  As you said, the ref was right there and made no call.  From my perspective and vantage point, it would have been a terrible call had it been made.  But at this point there's little value in debating individual calls, one can just as easily look at the video and see heavy contact on the press throughout the game and argue that many more fouls could have been called than were.  But in my view it was just two very good teams that battled hard and the refs letting them play with just enough calls to keep the game under control.

If she was off balance, it was because the Hope defender got up under her right arm and didn't allow her to come down...sure, both of us could review the video and argue calls, or lack there of, but this one seemed pretty obvious and it wasn't called, which is inexcusable, particularly when the ref is right there on top of it.

This is my point about perspectives.  In my view it was quite clearly not a foul, she was off balance as she shot (before the Hope defender was there) and there was a fair amount of theatrics, which is only a smart move on her part.  The fact that the ref was right there does more to support the idea that there was no foul than it supports the idea that the ref intentionally ignored a foul.  But I know we won't resolve these differing perspectives.

In any case, congratulations to both the CNU and Hope women on fine seasons.  As they say, everyone but one team ends the season with a loss.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Swish3 on March 12, 2018, 09:18:30 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on March 12, 2018, 06:14:41 PM
Swish, this is not an anomaly. It's happened before. In fact, this was the sixth time that CNU got called for more than 25 fouls. At Marymount, CNU got called for 30 fouls and Marymount was called for 20, leading Marymount to shoot 42 free throws, twice what CNU did.

Swish, if the Hope game is worthy of complaint, then an NCAA investigation should be opened into the game at Salisbury, where CNU was flagged for just 7 fouls while Salisbury was called for 25 fouls. This lead to CNU shooting 22 more free throws than Salisbury in a game that CNU won by 16 points.

In those five games you referenced, show me where CNU was called for twice as many fouls as their opponents and where they shot less than 3 times as many free throws as their opponents....

As for the Salisbury game, I completely agree w/you...if a Salisbury fan brought it up, I could certainly understand their point...just because CNU was on the better end of that scenario, it doesn't make it okay.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Swish3 on March 12, 2018, 09:24:29 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 12, 2018, 06:22:07 PM
Quote from: Swish3 on March 12, 2018, 05:04:31 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 12, 2018, 04:15:15 PM
I was at the game and just reviewed the replay and I saw something very different.  No contact on the shot and the CNU shooter falling from being off balance after the shot and the Hope player turning and putting a body on her to box out.  As you said, the ref was right there and made no call.  From my perspective and vantage point, it would have been a terrible call had it been made.  But at this point there's little value in debating individual calls, one can just as easily look at the video and see heavy contact on the press throughout the game and argue that many more fouls could have been called than were.  But in my view it was just two very good teams that battled hard and the refs letting them play with just enough calls to keep the game under control.

If she was off balance, it was because the Hope defender got up under her right arm and didn't allow her to come down...sure, both of us could review the video and argue calls, or lack there of, but this one seemed pretty obvious and it wasn't called, which is inexcusable, particularly when the ref is right there on top of it.

This is my point about perspectives.  In my view it was quite clearly not a foul, she was off balance as she shot (before the Hope defender was there) and there was a fair amount of theatrics, which is only a smart move on her part.  The fact that the ref was right there does more to support the idea that there was no foul than it supports the idea that the ref intentionally ignored a foul.  But I know we won't resolve these differing perspectives.

In any case, congratulations to both the CNU and Hope women on fine seasons.  As they say, everyone but one team ends the season with a loss.

No doubt....

Congrats to Hope, as well...until we meet again.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 12, 2018, 09:40:21 PM
There is an individual in charge of all officials. They review everything now in Division III. I assure you, even if an investigation was not asked for, they are looking over the tape. I'll give you a hint on what the outcome is: if one or more of the officials in that game are in the final four, the evaluators had a different opinion than you, Swish.

That said, that isn't the overall indicator. There were 48 officials working games last weekend. There are only 12 individuals needed this upcoming weekend... plus the scenario of trying to avoid officials who worked games of teams involved. It starts to get complicated, so my scenario may not come true for a lot of other reasons - not necessarily their grade.

However, they were also working this game because they have proven to be good officials who should be in that situation. We aren't talking about bad officials in the tournament anymore.

Just a note - we might be DIII, but there are a lot of officials who work DIII games who also work DI games... and high school. If they are good enough, they are working all levels because they are wanted... and they want to.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dykstraj@hope.edu on March 12, 2018, 10:15:01 PM
Attendance for the sectional weekend games at DeVos Fieldhouse was 5218 .
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 12, 2018, 10:47:31 PM
Quote from: dykstraj@hope.edu on March 12, 2018, 10:15:01 PM
Attendance for the sectional weekend games at DeVos Fieldhouse was 5218 .

Well that's disappointing... I really expected there to be another digit.

LOL Well done Holland and Western Michigan. Games there are pretty good... when Hope is playing in them. :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 12, 2018, 11:00:02 PM
This whole thing about CNU/Hope foul and FT disparity can be answered with advanced stats

FT Rate%
Thomas More                27.8            24.4
Gustavus-Adolphus       28.4           30.2
Hope                             34.3            23.1
Christopher Newport    33.3            37.6



both teams get to the foul line a relatively healthy amount of the time (first column),  Hope does not typically put its opponents on the line, CNU does put their opponents on the line a lot (second column)

Nothing happened in the Hope/CNU game that went against the season norms in the 2nd column.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Swish3 on March 13, 2018, 09:03:02 AM
The fact is, not one time in 29 games was CNU called for twice as many fouls and shot less than 3 times the amount of free throws...if you care to, watch the press conference w/CNU's coach...it's obvious to me he took issue w/the officiating, as well.

Anyway, I've said my piece...take care, everyone.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 13, 2018, 11:50:02 AM
D3Hoops All Great Lakes Region awards are out:

http://www.d3hoops.com/awards/all-region/2017-18/great-lakes-women

Brandi Dawson - Trine - 1st Team
Francesca Buchanan - Hope - 1st Team

Ali Spayde - Calvin - 2nd Team
Hayley Martin - Trine - 2nd Team

Kenedy Schoonveld - Co-Rookie of the Year

Congrats to all of them!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 13, 2018, 12:00:30 PM
Quote from: Swish3 on March 13, 2018, 09:03:02 AM
The fact is, not one time in 29 games was CNU called for twice as many fouls and shot less than 3 times the amount of free throws...if you care to, watch the press conference w/CNU's coach...it's obvious to me he took issue w/the officiating, as well.

Anyway, I've said my piece...take care, everyone.

Until the Sweet 16 not one time did they play a team that was physically and athletically at least their equal either.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 13, 2018, 01:27:27 PM
Quote from: sac on March 13, 2018, 12:00:30 PM
Quote from: Swish3 on March 13, 2018, 09:03:02 AM
The fact is, not one time in 29 games was CNU called for twice as many fouls and shot less than 3 times the amount of free throws...if you care to, watch the press conference w/CNU's coach...it's obvious to me he took issue w/the officiating, as well.

Anyway, I've said my piece...take care, everyone.

Until the Sweet 16 not one time did they play a team that was physically and athletically at least their equal either.

And you simply can't say x number of fouls equals y number of FT (you keep going back to the vast difference in FT attempts).  What kind of fouls were they (offensive, shooting, and one, common fouls under the bonus limit) all have an impact.  Perfect example of that in a CNU game vs YorkPA earlier in the year (87-85 win for YorkPA on 2/17/18).

Total fouls on YorkPA = 19
Total FT by CNU = 26

Total fouls on CNU = 18 (yup, 1 less total foul)
Total FT by YorkPA = 15 (13 less ???)

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 13, 2018, 04:51:17 PM
Sometimes when someone is convinced they or their team has been wronged... they can't see past the team-tinted glasses and look at it from any other perspective. We all know how it goes, seen it happen, probably been guilty of it ourselves.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on March 13, 2018, 08:40:52 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 13, 2018, 04:51:17 PM
Sometimes when someone is convinced they or their team has been wronged... they can't see past the team-tinted glasses and look at it from any other perspective. We all know how it goes, seen it happen, probably been guilty of it ourselves.
Heck, I live it at every Hope game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on March 14, 2018, 03:41:57 PM
QuoteUntil the Sweet 16 not one time did they play a team that was physically and athletically at least their equal either.

They played Thomas More on December 20th.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on March 14, 2018, 04:59:51 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on March 14, 2018, 03:41:57 PM
QuoteUntil the Sweet 16 not one time did they play a team that was physically and athletically at least their equal either.

They played Thomas More on December 20th.
They also played Marymount 3 times.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 15, 2018, 03:27:29 PM
Alma is looking for a new coach
http://almascots.com/sports/wbkb/2017-18/releases/20180315il99lf
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 17, 2018, 12:25:54 AM
OMG, those NESCAC teams must be good.  Hope lost to Thomas More - Amherst beat them by 18.  Trine lost to Wartburg - Bowdoin beat them by 28!!

An all NESCAC title game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 17, 2018, 09:33:26 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 17, 2018, 12:25:54 AM
OMG, those NESCAC teams must be good.  Hope lost to Thomas More - Amherst beat them by 18.  Trine lost to Wartburg - Bowdoin beat them by 28!!

An all NESCAC title game.
Indeed . . . though in the direct MIAA/NESCAC matchup, Trine narrowly lost to Amherst . . . so score comparisons tell multiple stories (Virginia loses to UMBC by 20, which loses to Albany by 43, which loses to Binghamton by 13, etc.).  Still, point well made.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on March 18, 2018, 11:41:22 AM
This is what I've been able to piece together so far for next years incoming freshmen.

















NameTeamHeightHigh SchoolHome Town
Alexis SillmanAdiran5-7St. JohnsSt. Johns, MI
Bailey MruzikAdrian5-7CarlsonGibraltar, MI
Katy ShannonAdrian5-6Lansing CatholicLansing, MI
Skylar BaerAdrian5-10LakelandWhite Lake, MI
Taylor BesgroveAdrian5-5Cardinal StritchMillbury, OH
Malynn KosnikAlbion5-9Utica EisenhowerShelby Township, MI
Abbie CooleyCalvin5-7Castle ViewCastle Rock, CO
Alaina HeitmeyerCalvin5-7CantonCanton, MI
Sophia PierceCalvin5-5LeoFort Wayne, IN
Hannah SmithHope5-11MidlandMidland, MI
Taylor VinesHope6-0HollyHolly, MI
Kayla WildmanTrine5-10RockfordRockford, MI
Kaylee ArgyleTrine5-4FreelandFreeland, MI
Natalee KunseTrine5-9ClareClare, MI
Sophia KreagTrine5-8WestfieldCarmel, IN
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 18, 2018, 04:08:37 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on March 18, 2018, 11:41:22 AM
This is what I've been able to piece together so far for next years incoming freshmen.

















NameTeamHeightHigh SchoolHome Town
Alexis SillmanAdiran5-7St. JohnsSt. Johns, MI
Bailey MruzikAdrian5-7CarlsonGibraltar, MI
Katy ShannonAdrian5-6Lansing CatholicLansing, MI
Skylar BaerAdrian5-10LakelandWhite Lake, MI
Taylor BesgroveAdrian5-5Cardinal StritchMillbury, OH
Malynn KosnikAlbion5-9Utica EisenhowerShelby Township, MI
Abbie CooleyCalvin5-7Castle ViewCastle Rock, CO
Alaina HeitmeyerCalvin5-7CantonCanton, MI
Sophia PierceCalvin5-5LeoFort Wayne, IN
Hannah SmithHope5-11MidlandMidland, MI
Taylor VinesHope6-0HollyHolly, MI
Kayla WildmanTrine5-10RockfordRockford, MI
Kaylee ArgyleTrine5-4FreelandFreeland, MI
Natalee KunseTrine5-9ClareClare, MI
Sophia KreagTrine5-8WestfieldCarmel, IN
Thank you, DutchFan . . . and for two more:
http://highschoolsports.mlive.com/news/article/-2585686236140568012/seniors-extend-district-championship-legacy-of-hudsonville-girls-basketball/
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on March 18, 2018, 05:26:15 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on March 18, 2018, 11:41:22 AM
This is what I've been able to piece together so far for next years incoming freshmen.

















NameTeamHeightHigh SchoolHome Town
Alexis SillmanAdiran5-7St. JohnsSt. Johns, MI
Bailey MruzikAdrian5-7CarlsonGibraltar, MI
Katy ShannonAdrian5-6Lansing CatholicLansing, MI
Skylar BaerAdrian5-10LakelandWhite Lake, MI
Taylor BesgroveAdrian5-5Cardinal StritchMillbury, OH
Malynn KosnikAlbion5-9Utica EisenhowerShelby Township, MI
Abbie CooleyCalvin5-7Castle ViewCastle Rock, CO
Alaina HeitmeyerCalvin5-7CantonCanton, MI
Sophia PierceCalvin5-5LeoFort Wayne, IN
Hannah SmithHope5-11MidlandMidland, MI
Taylor VinesHope6-0HollyHolly, MI
Kayla WildmanTrine5-10RockfordRockford, MI
Kaylee ArgyleTrine5-4FreelandFreeland, MI
Natalee KunseTrine5-9ClareClare, MI
Sophia KreagTrine5-8WestfieldCarmel, IN

Some more additions to the list:

Kortney Helm          Trine     5-11    Delta HS                  Muncie IN
Hannah Milligan       Trine     6-0      Lutheran North HS    Macomb MI
Tara Bienicwicz        Trine     6-0      Dakota HS               Macomb MI
Rachel Stewart        Trine     5-8      Eastern HS               New Pekin IN
Julia Pate                Trine     5-10    Castle HS                 Newburgh IN
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on March 18, 2018, 07:15:07 PM
Updated list. Thanks TUAngola and pointlem for the additional info.
























NameTeamHeightHigh SchoolHome Town
Alexis SillmanAdiran5-7St. JohnsSt. Johns, MI
Bailey MruzikAdrian5-7CarlsonGibraltar, MI
Katy ShannonAdrian5-6Lansing CatholicLansing, MI
Skylar BaerAdrian5-10LakelandWhite Lake, MI
Taylor BesgroveAdrian5-5Cardinal StritchMillbury, OH
Malynn KosnikAlbion5-9Utica EisenhowerShelby Township, MI
Abbie CooleyCalvin5-7Castle ViewCastle Rock, CO
Alaina HeitmeyerCalvin5-7CantonCanton, MI
Sophia PierceCalvin5-5LeoFort Wayne, IN
Arinn KingHope5-5HudsonvilleHudsonville, MI
Hannah SmithHope5-11MidlandMidland, MI
Kasey DeSmitHope5-7HudsonvilleHudsonville, MI
Taylor VinesHope6-0HollyHolly, MI
Hannah MilliganTrine6-0Lutheran NorthMacomb, MI
Julia PateTrine5-10CastleNewburgh, IN
Kayla WildmanTrine5-10RockfordRockford, MI
Kaylee ArgyleTrine5-4FreelandFreeland, MI
Kortney HelmTrine5-11DeltaMuncie, IN
Natalee KunseTrine5-9ClareClare, MI
Rachel StewartTrine5-8EasternNew Perkin, IN
Sophia KreagTrine5-8WestfieldCarmel, IN
Tara BienicwiczTrine6-0DakotaMacomb, MI
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: SaintsFAN on March 19, 2018, 11:30:01 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2018, 11:21:40 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 09, 2018, 10:41:22 PM
Congratulations to Hope, though that game was tougher than I was expecting.  Thomas More looked pretty damn good tonight, but since Sidney Moss ain't suiting up in the DeVos tomorrow, I think you will taken 'em out.

Congratulations to Trine on a GREAT season.  I confess I underestimated Wartburg - their schedule was not the toughest in the world, but they are a legitimately undefeated team nonetheless.  I'd say they have as good a chance as anyone at winning the whole enchilada.

FYI - Thomas More was a darn good program before Moss arrived and proving to be good after. Abby Owings is a damn good player and she lead them to their second only national title, not Moss, because her play in the championship against Tufts was outstanding.

I think Hope matches up well, but that will not be an easy game whatsoever.

I was impressed Hope was able to come back against CNU, but that game showed a lot for both teams. That was a terrific game.

Common misconception.   You don't have the level of success they've had from one player, who was only there three years.  Their current run has even survived a coaching transition...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on March 19, 2018, 11:46:18 AM
Thomas More was a good program before Hans and Moss arrived, but they weren't national title contenders like they are now.

Here's their last 10 post-season appearances with their final ranking noted in parentheses

2018: Lost to Amherst in Final Four (Poll not final, but I assume No. 3)
2017: Lost to Hope in 2nd round (11th)
2016: National Championship (1st)
2015: National Championship - Vacated (1st)
2014: Lost to Whitman in Elite 8 (Moss blew out her knee in that game) (4th)
-----Before Moss-----
2013: Lost to Carthage in first round (21st)
2012: Lost to Illinois Wesleyan in 2nd round (24th)
2011: Lost to Wash U in Elite 8 (6th)
2010: Lost to Wash U in 2nd round (15th)
2009: Lost to Hope in Sweet 16 (8th)

If you look at the season results, you'll see a lot of these tournament losses pre-Moss were at home and not competitive games. The 2009 Hope game was competitive, but the rest were double-digit wins for the opponent and some of them really lopsided (37 point win by IWU in 2012). There's no way someone is going into the Saints gym and beating them by double-digits in a walkover now. Hans has taken this program to another level.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: SaintsFAN on March 19, 2018, 11:54:27 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 17, 2018, 12:25:54 AM
OMG, those NESCAC teams must be good.  Hope lost to Thomas More - Amherst beat them by 18.  Trine lost to Wartburg - Bowdoin beat them by 28!!

An all NESCAC title game.

Well, it was well known that Thomas More didn't have Sydney Moss again this year...  ::)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: SaintsFAN on March 19, 2018, 11:59:17 AM
Quote from: gordonmann on March 19, 2018, 11:46:18 AM
Thomas More was a good program before Hans and Moss arrived, but they weren't national title contenders like they are now.

Here's their last 10 post-season appearances with their final ranking noted in parentheses

2018: Lost to Amherst in Final Four (Poll not final, but I assume No. 3)
2017: Lost to Hope in 2nd round (11th)
2016: National Championship (1st)
2015: National Championship - Vacated (1st)
2014: Lost to Whitman in Elite 8 (Moss blew out her knee in that game) (4th)
-----Before Moss-----
2013: Lost to Carthage in first round (21st)
2012: Lost to Illinois Wesleyan in 2nd round (24th)
2011: Lost to Wash U in Elite 8 (6th)
2010: Lost to Wash U in 2nd round (15th)
2009: Lost to Hope in Sweet 16 (8th)

If you look at the season results, you'll see a lot of these tournament losses pre-Moss were at home and not competitive games. The 2009 Hope game was competitive, but the rest were double-digit wins for the opponent and some of them really lopsided (37 point win by IWU in 2012). There's no way someone is going into the Saints gym and beating them by double-digits in a walkover now. Hans has taken this program to another level.

So my wording could be better.  To be fair, this run with Hans has coincided with an added emphasis on athletics at the school. 

The difference in those two time periods is the two national titles... Yes, I still say TWO, Dave..  :-*

My original point is they haven't taken a step back the last two years following SM's graduation. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on March 19, 2018, 12:02:30 PM
Yes, totally agree with that.

And they won't next year either -- Madison Temple is one of the best players in Division III basketball. They will be a force again next year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: SaintsFAN on March 19, 2018, 12:12:55 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on March 19, 2018, 12:02:30 PM
Yes, totally agree with that.

And they won't next year either -- Madison Temple is one of the best players in Division III basketball. They will be a force again next year.

Yessir.  I agree.  They had so many underclassman learning roles on the fly this year..
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 19, 2018, 08:38:13 PM
Speaking of next year, I'm already looking forward to a Hope squad that may well be stronger yet next year.  6' All American Frankie Buchanan will be back and the starting guards will no longer be freshmen.  Reserve 6'3" Olivia Voskuil played a lot of key minutes down the stretch and the sky is the limit for her as indicated by her 6 pts, 7 rebs, 6 blocks vs CNU.  6'2" Ashleigh Thomas also was part of a strong 2nd unit that logged lots of minutes.  Looks like a strong recruiting class coming in again too. 

Hope was loaded with freshmen that started or played key roles this year.  In my experience, the summer between freshman and sophomore years is when the women make the greatest offseason improvement.  Finding time and places to play during the summer seems to be key.  If the Hope women manage that, watch out!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on March 19, 2018, 09:18:14 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 19, 2018, 08:38:13 PM
Speaking of next year, I'm already looking forward to a Hope squad that may well be stronger yet next year.  6' All American Frankie Buchanan will be back and the starting guards will no longer be freshmen.  Reserve 6'3" Olivia Voskuil played a lot of key minutes down the stretch and the sky is the limit for her as indicated by her 6 pts, 7 rebs, 6 blocks vs CNU.  6'2" Ashleigh Thomas also was part of a strong 2nd unit that logged lots of minutes.  Looks like a strong recruiting class coming in again too. 

Hope was loaded with freshmen that started or played key roles this year.  In my experience, the summer between freshman and sophomore years is when the women make the greatest offseason improvement.  Finding time and places to play during the summer seems to be key.  If the Hope women manage that, watch out!
If memory serves, Ashleigh Thomas actually spent most of the season as part of the third unit. Says a lot for Hope since there are many teams she would've started for.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on March 20, 2018, 02:11:49 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on March 19, 2018, 09:18:14 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 19, 2018, 08:38:13 PM
Speaking of next year, I'm already looking forward to a Hope squad that may well be stronger yet next year.  6' All American Frankie Buchanan will be back and the starting guards will no longer be freshmen.  Reserve 6'3" Olivia Voskuil played a lot of key minutes down the stretch and the sky is the limit for her as indicated by her 6 pts, 7 rebs, 6 blocks vs CNU.  6'2" Ashleigh Thomas also was part of a strong 2nd unit that logged lots of minutes.  Looks like a strong recruiting class coming in again too. 

Hope was loaded with freshmen that started or played key roles this year.  In my experience, the summer between freshman and sophomore years is when the women make the greatest offseason improvement.  Finding time and places to play during the summer seems to be key.  If the Hope women manage that, watch out!
If memory serves, Ashleigh Thomas actually spent most of the season as part of the third unit. Says a lot for Hope since there are many teams she would've started for.
Another one that didn't see a lot of minutes was 6' Jess Moorman. She was overly aggressive at times but has a nose for the ball on defense and made a few key steals. And she made a few slick passes for assists when the opportunity arose.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on March 21, 2018, 06:22:24 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on March 18, 2018, 07:15:07 PM
Updated list. Thanks TUAngola and pointlem for the additional info.
























NameTeamHeightHigh SchoolHome Town
Alexis SillmanAdiran5-7St. JohnsSt. Johns, MI
Bailey MruzikAdrian5-7CarlsonGibraltar, MI
Katy ShannonAdrian5-6Lansing CatholicLansing, MI
Skylar BaerAdrian5-10LakelandWhite Lake, MI
Taylor BesgroveAdrian5-5Cardinal StritchMillbury, OH
Malynn KosnikAlbion5-9Utica EisenhowerShelby Township, MI
Abbie CooleyCalvin5-7Castle ViewCastle Rock, CO
Alaina HeitmeyerCalvin5-7CantonCanton, MI
Sophia PierceCalvin5-5LeoFort Wayne, IN
Arinn KingHope5-5HudsonvilleHudsonville, MI
Hannah SmithHope5-11MidlandMidland, MI
Kasey DeSmitHope5-7HudsonvilleHudsonville, MI
Taylor VinesHope6-0HollyHolly, MI
Hannah MilliganTrine6-0Lutheran NorthMacomb, MI
Julia PateTrine5-10CastleNewburgh, IN
Kayla WildmanTrine5-10RockfordRockford, MI
Kaylee ArgyleTrine5-4FreelandFreeland, MI
Kortney HelmTrine5-11DeltaMuncie, IN
Natalee KunseTrine5-9ClareClare, MI
Rachel StewartTrine5-8EasternNew Perkin, IN
Sophia KreagTrine5-8WestfieldCarmel, IN
Tara BienicwiczTrine6-0DakotaMacomb, MI

2 more recent Trine commits:

Macee Strycker         Trine        5-7         Argos HS             Argos, IN
Kelsy Taylor             Trine        6-2         New Albany HS     New Albany, IN

That's 11 recruits so far on the list, I'm sure there are other recruits not known about.  Not sure how many of them will be on Varsity next year, we do graduate 5 from this year's roster.  Honestly I don't know too much about any of the Trine recruits as none are from northeastern Indiana.  I do like we are getting 3 Southern Indiana gals.  Rachel Stewart's team won the State Championship for class 1A in 2017 during her Jr year and went 20-4 this year.  Julia Pate's team went 23-1 this year and lost in the Regional.  Kelsy Taylor is a good athlete, and will also throw the shot and discus for the Trine track team.

If you Michigan posters know the basketball backgrounds of any of the Michigan HS players that will be attending Trine, I'd love to hear.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 28, 2018, 02:08:10 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on March 10, 2018, 01:44:08 pm

    Does anyone know where Jason Beckman's sister, Jenny Beckman, plans to play next year?

Dutchfan, check out

http://highschoolsports.mlive.com/news/article/5975938946522731143/kent-city-freshman-named-to-class-c-all-state-team-in-girls-basketball/

http://www.mlive.com/sports/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2018/02/meet_the_best_girls_basketball.html

https://www.facebook.com/MHSAASports/photos/a.337814330993.150749.51382875993/10155370718745994/?type=3&theater

http://localsportsjournal.com/2018/02/senior-standouts-beckman-mussell-ready-for-one-more-tournament-ride-with-shelby/

:D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on March 30, 2018, 07:32:19 PM
Quote from: pointlem on March 28, 2018, 02:08:10 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on March 10, 2018, 01:44:08 pm

    Does anyone know where Jason Beckman's sister, Jenny Beckman, plans to play next year?

Dutchfan, check out

http://highschoolsports.mlive.com/news/article/5975938946522731143/kent-city-freshman-named-to-class-c-all-state-team-in-girls-basketball/

http://www.mlive.com/sports/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2018/02/meet_the_best_girls_basketball.html

https://www.facebook.com/MHSAASports/photos/a.337814330993.150749.51382875993/10155370718745994/?type=3&theater

http://localsportsjournal.com/2018/02/senior-standouts-beckman-mussell-ready-for-one-more-tournament-ride-with-shelby/

:D

Thanks, pointlem!!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on April 16, 2018, 09:09:11 PM
With Hope's two freshmen starting guards returning from this year's team, this will strengthen the position even more:

http://highschoolsports.mlive.com/news/article/3625489847704602881/advance-all-area-girls-basketball-team-west/

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on April 16, 2018, 09:32:25 PM
Quote from: AlwaysHope on April 16, 2018, 09:09:11 PM
With Hope's two freshmen starting guards returning from this year's team, this will strengthen the position even more:

http://highschoolsports.mlive.com/news/article/3625489847704602881/advance-all-area-girls-basketball-team-west/

Gotta admire the self-confidence of a player who will come to a school with TWO FRESHMAN starters at her position!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on April 17, 2018, 11:08:02 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on April 16, 2018, 09:32:25 PM
Quote from: AlwaysHope on April 16, 2018, 09:09:11 PM
With Hope's two freshmen starting guards returning from this year's team, this will strengthen the position even more:

http://highschoolsports.mlive.com/news/article/3625489847704602881/advance-all-area-girls-basketball-team-west/

Gotta admire the self-confidence of a player who will come to a school with TWO FRESHMAN starters at her position!

Yes, but you have to look at the number of players who are part of the Hope rotation every year.  Hope had 10 players this past season who averaged over 10 minutes per game, plus 2 more at 9.9 and 9.8 minutes.  Some of that is due to margin of victory, but the majority of it is due to the depth of the squad.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on April 17, 2018, 11:42:43 AM
At the D3 level I'm hoping her decision was more about academic programs, campus life and so on vs. the WBB roster.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on April 17, 2018, 09:00:46 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on April 16, 2018, 09:32:25 PM
Quote from: AlwaysHope on April 16, 2018, 09:09:11 PM
With Hope's two freshmen starting guards returning from this year's team, this will strengthen the position even more:

http://highschoolsports.mlive.com/news/article/3625489847704602881/advance-all-area-girls-basketball-team-west/

Gotta admire the self-confidence of a player who will come to a school with TWO FRESHMAN starters at her position!

Not to mention that you have Jenny Beckman also joining Hope at the Guard position next year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on May 10, 2018, 10:56:06 PM
Julia Lalaine  5-10 F  Novi will attend Hope
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on May 16, 2018, 08:17:43 PM
Here is an update list of MIAA women's recruits. Names in bold are new to the list since I last posted it.








































NameTeamHeightHigh SchoolHome Town
Alexis SillmanAdiran5-7St. JohnsSt. Johns, MI
Bailey MruzikAdrian5-7CarlsonGibraltar, MI
Katy ShannonAdrian5-6Lansing CatholicLansing, MI
Skylar BaerAdrian5-10LakelandWhite Lake, MI
Taylor BesgroveAdrian5-5Cardinal StritchMillbury, OH
Clausia SbaschnikAlbion5-11Saint Andrews EpiscopalBradenton, FL
Malynn KosnikAlbion5-9Utica EisenhowerShelby Township, MI
Sylvia UpthegroveAlbion5-11LimaLima, OH
Tiffani BurgessAlbion5-8L'anse CreuseHarrison Township, MI
Aubrey BoosAlma5-8Kenowa HillsGrand Rapids, MI
Maddie CrumAlma5-8AthensTroy, MI
Stasha WarchockAlma5-11MarquetteMarquette, MI
Abbie CooleyCalvin5-7Castle ViewCastle Rock, CO
Alaina HeitmeyerCalvin5-7CantonCanton, MI
Mady Vander ZwaagCalvin5-10Holland ChristianHolland, MI
McKay VansickleCalvin5-7Castle ViewCastle Rock, CO
Mikayla KerstingCalvin5-9Harbor Lights ChristianHarbor Lights, MI
Sophia PierceCalvin5-5LeoFort Wayne, IN
Stephanie CoorsCalvin5-10Valor ChristianHighlands Ranch, CO
Arinn KingHope5-5HudsonvilleHudsonville, MI
Hannah SmithHope5-11MidlandMidland, MI
Jenny BeckmanHope5-8ShelbyShelby, MI
Julia LalainHope5-10NoviNovi, MI
Kate MajerusHope6-0SycamoreSycamore, IL
Kasey DeSmitHope5-7HudsonvilleHudsonville, MI
Taylor VinesHope6-0HollyHolly, MI
Hannah MilliganTrine6-0Lutheran NorthMacomb, MI
Julia PateTrine5-10CastleNewburgh, IN
Kayla WildmanTrine5-10RockfordRockford, MI
Kaylee ArgyleTrine5-4FreelandFreeland, MI
Kelsy TaylorTrine6-2New AlbanyNew Albany, IN
Kortney HelmTrine5-11DeltaMuncie, IN
Macee StryckerTrine5-7ArgosArgos. IN
Natalee KunseTrine5-9ClareClare, MI
Rachel StewartTrine5-8EasternNew Perkin, IN
Sophia KreagTrine5-8WestfieldCarmel, IN
Tara BienicwiczTrine6-0DakotaMacomb, MI
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on October 22, 2018, 12:53:19 PM
Hope is D3hoops preseason #3, behind Amherst and Bowdoin.  Pretty lofty but with Frankie Buchanan back and if the super frosh from last year make the big improvements you often see from Frosh to Soph years, this could indeed be a very tough team.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on October 22, 2018, 07:10:42 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on October 22, 2018, 12:53:19 PM
Hope is D3hoops preseason #3, behind Amherst and Bowdoin.  Pretty lofty but with Frankie Buchanan back and if the super frosh from last year make the big improvements you often see from Frosh to Soph years, this could indeed be a very tough team.

Trine checks in at preseason #9.  We return 3 starters plus injured PG Camille Lira who missed most of the 2nd half of the season with a knee injury.  Biggest loss obviously is replacing C Haley Martin, a 3 year starter.  We also lost F Kayla Freeman who replaced Lira in the starting lineup.  Freeman played very well down the stretch for the Thunder.  Brandi Dawson returns for her senior season as arguably one of the best players ever in WBB at Tri-State/Trine.  Starters Cassidy Williams and Katy Steers also return along with super sub Montana Martin.  Probably the biggest key and "unknown" is who is going to replace Martin at the 5 spot in the lineup.  I think it will be center position by "committee" this year.  Soph Shay Herbert could step in, but it may be one of the 3 freshman "bigs" who get the nod to start.  With the depth that Hope has on the frontcourt, it will take everyone contributing to keep us close when we play them.  I was so impressed with not only Buchanan, who is probably my vote for preseason POY along with Dawson, but with the 2 Freshman bigs Hope had last year.  As Roundball999 mentioned, the skys the limit for Hope with their frontcourt depth and also with super talented G Schoonveld, who single handidly carried Hope in that first half championship game with Trine.     
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on October 22, 2018, 08:28:41 PM
Would be fabulous for the MIAA if these two teams can maintain top 10 play through the year.  Don't know much about Calvin this year but as a Hope fan, I never count them out either.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on October 23, 2018, 11:26:43 AM
Calvin loses its top two scorers from last year in Ali Spayde and Bre Luurtsema who accounted for almost 50 percent of their scoring. That said, I'd be surprised if they didn't remain a MIAA contender because it's a quality program.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on October 23, 2018, 06:23:07 PM
Calvin did receive some votes in the D3 pre season poll.  I wouldn't be surprised if Albion gets some national recognition too.  Most of their best players last year were underclassmen.  I look for them to take another step this year.   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on October 25, 2018, 05:58:14 PM
Congratulations to both Trine's Brandi Dawson and Hope's Francesca Buchanan for being selected to the D3hoops.com preseason All American Teams.  Brandi was selected as a 1st teamer and Frankie as a 2nd teamer. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dykstraj@hope.edu on October 31, 2018, 09:41:59 PM
Any one know what became of Hope"s Celina King? 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on November 01, 2018, 07:49:16 PM
I had the same question. We heard a lot from her family when she first joined and I was excited to see how she did there.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on November 02, 2018, 12:52:25 PM
Speaking of surprise departures...

http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2018/11/gould-gone-from-trine
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 03, 2018, 12:10:04 AM
Quote from: gordonmann on November 02, 2018, 12:52:25 PM
Speaking of surprise departures...

http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2018/11/gould-gone-from-trine

And the story has been updated with the following statement given to D3hoops.com:

Quote
"On Oct. 16, 2018, Trine University suspended women's head basketball coach Ryan Gould pending an investigation into potential violations of Gould's contractual obligations and potential violations of university policies. As a result of that investigation, Mr. Gould's employment with the university has been terminated effective Oct. 31, 2018. Going forward, the women's basketball team will be led by interim head coach Andy Rang."
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on November 03, 2018, 11:30:58 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 03, 2018, 12:10:04 AM
Quote from: gordonmann on November 02, 2018, 12:52:25 PM
Speaking of surprise departures...

http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2018/11/gould-gone-from-trine

And the story has been updated with the following statement given to D3hoops.com:

Quote
"On Oct. 16, 2018, Trine University suspended women's head basketball coach Ryan Gould pending an investigation into potential violations of Gould's contractual obligations and potential violations of university policies. As a result of that investigation, Mr. Gould's employment with the university has been terminated effective Oct. 31, 2018. Going forward, the women's basketball team will be led by interim head coach Andy Rang."
No inside information here other than the statement the University released.  This is huge news, I first learned of the suspension the beginning of this week.  Andy Rang does have many years experience both as an assistant and head coach in high school however.  It will be interesting to see how the girls respond to adversity.  They had an exhibition game against D1 Butler Wednesday evening and it did not go well, losing 69-31.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ronk on November 04, 2018, 12:23:42 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on October 22, 2018, 07:10:42 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on October 22, 2018, 12:53:19 PM
Hope is D3hoops preseason #3, behind Amherst and Bowdoin.  Pretty lofty but with Frankie Buchanan back and if the super frosh from last year make the big improvements you often see from Frosh to Soph years, this could indeed be a very tough team.

Trine checks in at preseason #9.  We return 3 starters plus injured PG Camille Lira who missed most of the 2nd half of the season with a knee injury. Biggest loss obviously is replacing C Haley Martin, a 3 year starter.  We also lost F Kayla Freeman who replaced Lira in the starting lineup.  Freeman played very well down the stretch for the Thunder.  Brandi Dawson returns for her senior season as arguably one of the best players ever in WBB at Tri-State/Trine.  Starters Cassidy Williams and Katy Steers also return along with super sub Montana Martin.  Probably the biggest key and "unknown" is who is going to replace Martin at the 5 spot in the lineup.  I think it will be center position by "committee" this year.  Soph Shay Herbert could step in, but it may be one of the 3 freshman "bigs" who get the nod to start.  With the depth that Hope has on the frontcourt, it will take everyone contributing to keep us close when we play them.  I was so impressed with not only Buchanan, who is probably my vote for preseason POY along with Dawson, but with the 2 Freshman bigs Hope had last year.  As Roundball999 mentioned, the skys the limit for Hope with their frontcourt depth and also with super talented G Schoonveld, who single handidly carried Hope in that first half championship game with Trine.     

I see that Camille Lira isn't on Trine's roster; is that because she hasn't yet recovered from that injury?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 04, 2018, 10:21:46 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on November 03, 2018, 11:30:58 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 03, 2018, 12:10:04 AM
Quote from: gordonmann on November 02, 2018, 12:52:25 PM
Speaking of surprise departures...

http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2018/11/gould-gone-from-trine

And the story has been updated with the following statement given to D3hoops.com:

Quote
"On Oct. 16, 2018, Trine University suspended women's head basketball coach Ryan Gould pending an investigation into potential violations of Gould's contractual obligations and potential violations of university policies. As a result of that investigation, Mr. Gould's employment with the university has been terminated effective Oct. 31, 2018. Going forward, the women's basketball team will be led by interim head coach Andy Rang."
No inside information here other than the statement the University released.  This is huge news, I first learned of the suspension the beginning of this week.  Andy Rang does have many years experience both as an assistant and head coach in high school however.  It will be interesting to see how the girls respond to adversity.  They had an exhibition game against D1 Butler Wednesday evening and it did not go well, losing 69-31.

I'm confused .. were you expecting inside information? I don't think we said we had any inside information. Though, not from a lack of trying (and continue to try).

It is very strange to see this kind of thing transpire. We certainly aren't going to speculate and we wouldn't publish anything unless we had it locked up tight.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 05, 2018, 11:01:41 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 04, 2018, 10:21:46 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on November 03, 2018, 11:30:58 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 03, 2018, 12:10:04 AM
Quote from: gordonmann on November 02, 2018, 12:52:25 PM
Speaking of surprise departures...

http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2018/11/gould-gone-from-trine

And the story has been updated with the following statement given to D3hoops.com:

Quote
"On Oct. 16, 2018, Trine University suspended women's head basketball coach Ryan Gould pending an investigation into potential violations of Gould's contractual obligations and potential violations of university policies. As a result of that investigation, Mr. Gould's employment with the university has been terminated effective Oct. 31, 2018. Going forward, the women's basketball team will be led by interim head coach Andy Rang."
No inside information here other than the statement the University released.  This is huge news, I first learned of the suspension the beginning of this week.  Andy Rang does have many years experience both as an assistant and head coach in high school however.  It will be interesting to see how the girls respond to adversity.  They had an exhibition game against D1 Butler Wednesday evening and it did not go well, losing 69-31.

I'm confused .. were you expecting inside information? I don't think we said we had any inside information. Though, not from a lack of trying (and continue to try).

It is very strange to see this kind of thing transpire. We certainly aren't going to speculate and we wouldn't publish anything unless we had it locked up tight.

Dave- I believe TUAngola was using "here" to refer to himself - not D3Hoops
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on November 05, 2018, 03:18:06 PM
Right, he was saying. "I don't have any insider information..."
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on November 05, 2018, 06:11:29 PM
Sorry for the confusion.  Yes, I was commenting that I didn't have any other information to add, even though I am just a stones throw from campus.  I did find it odd that the Trine WBB twitter account, which usually is very active, all of a sudden went silent beginning on Oct 16.  Which now makes sense because that is when Coach Gould was first suspended from his coaching duties.

Another bit of news, I always take a weekly look at the roster on the team page to see if there are any "subtractions" from the original roster, which in DIII sports isn't all that unusual.  Today I noticed one of the girls is no longer on the roster.  I have no idea if it's somehow related to Coach being gone...it could be though. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 05, 2018, 11:11:11 PM
You know ... I read that multiple times thinking ... I wondering if he is saying he doesn't have inside information or not. I seriously tried to see if that is what he meant ... and I just couldn't get my head to turn in that direction. Sorry for the confusion then.

As for the Twitter account ... you can deduce from it stopping on Oct. 16 who probably had access and was running the account. :) I actually did the same thing and look at the account and quickly saw that correlation.

As for the roster change ... certainly hard to speculate, but it also could very likely be related. Do you remember who the player was? If so, private message me that. I rather not put that out into the open arena.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 07, 2018, 12:27:01 PM
Coach's poll, no surprises here:


Rank

Team

Points

First-Place Votes

1. Hope 64 points 8
2. Trine 56 points 1
3. Albion 50 points   
4. Calvin 44 points   
5. Adrian 31 points   
6. Olivet 27 points   
7. Saint Mary's 18 points   
T8. Alma 17 points   
T8. Kalamazoo 17 points   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on November 10, 2018, 07:29:35 PM
Trine opens the 2018-2019 season with a 76-62 win over Denison at the MTI Center.  As with any opening game there were some good things and not so good.  We started 3 seniors, a junior and soph Shay Herbert in the post to replace the graduated Haley Martin.  Brandi Dawson played like an All American player should play, she'll be tough to guard.  And she showed she can hit an open 3 if you give her too much space.  I thought Katy Steers looked very good, much more confident in her game today and is strong enough to finish in the paint.  We also got good minutes from 4 freshman, Sophia Kreag, Kayla Wildman, Kelsey Taylor and Tara Bieniewicz, who looks to be one of the more skilled freshman we've had here in a while, outside of Brandi.  She has a smooth stroke from outside and at 6' has good size for a wing.  She ended up being the 2nd leading scorer with 18 pts after Brandi's 24.  Katy rounded out the double figure scorers with 14.  Both returning players Cassidy Williams and Montana Martin struggled with their shots today.  Montana has always been the "6th man" but she started today. It could be that she is a better player off the bench perhaps?  Cassidy has never been offensively gifted but we need her on the floor because she is our defensive stopper.

Denison hung tough for 3 quarters then Trine really put the clamps down in the 4th and Tara nailed some big 3s to get us some breathing room.  Good first win for Coach Andy Rang, after the turbulent October with the dismissal of Coach Gould.  I didn't see anything out of the ordinary as far as his philosophy over Coach Gould's, runs a lot of the same stuff.  I'm sure he'll "tweak" some things to fit his coaching style as the season progresses.  The girls seemed to not really skip a beat with the coaching change, all were enthusiastic from the get go.     
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 29, 2018, 12:57:18 PM
Nice MIAA opener for the Flying Dutch last night with an 88-50 win over Adrian.  16 Hope players scored and the minutes were spread over the entire roster with no one playing more than 18.  Hope generated 35 Adrian turnovers and was really pushing the ball, meaning fewer set plays and inside touches than usual for All American Frankie Buchanan, however she got in the spirit by hitting the only 3 she took.  Hope did give up a few uncharacteristic layups in the first half especially, but that's going to happen with their typical overplay defense when you have a bunch of younger players still learning to help out on the backside.

Overall a very strong start to the conference schedule for Hope.  Was very impressed by the play of sophomore Sydney Muller, who transferred in to Hope from NIAI Cornerstone University where she was a starter as a freshman last year.  She has only added to an already very strong group of young guards for the Dutch.  Also looks like sophomores 6'3" Olivia Voskuil and 6'2" Ashley Thomas have significantly improved their aggressiveness and offensive skills since last year.  Future continues to look very bright for the Dutch.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on December 02, 2018, 12:56:24 PM
Watched Hope at Olivet yesterday.  Pretty much played out as you would expect, very solid win for Hope with PT and scoring spread around again.  I just had to comment on Frankie Buchanan's 19 point/19 rebound (11 offensive boards) performance in a little more than a half.  She is not flashy but she is just relentless in the low post.  Strong moves to either hand commands either a double or even triple team otherwise she gets a layup or very makeable short shot.  But she's not just a black hole down low, she'll kick it out for the open three when she's doubled.  She actually doesn't usually get the assist because Hope is very good about making that extra pass to get an even better shot.  Her game kind of sneaks up on you, it's not as noticeable as someone raining threes or making slashing drives;  she does most of her work in the low post but her toughness and work ethic is very impressive.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 06, 2018, 03:32:16 PM
(https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=710/cr=n/d=jbz35/1i0m0nedc9s84jgm.jpg)

The Division III basketball season is nearly a month along. We have reached the first quarter pole of the season to evaluate where everyone is and where teams are headed. There have been plenty of surprises, upsets, teams stubbing their toes, and more. There are also some who are doing well despite maybe not being fully saddled when they left the gate.

On Thursday's edition of Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com), Dave takes a look at three programs which had very late coaching decisions and how those decisions have affected the programs. Two teams, Salisbury men and Trine women, saw their coaches suspended and then fired in the month leading up to their first games. Another, Brandeis men, saw their coach make national headlines, be fired, an interim hired, but then that decision reversed and a new coach hired just two weeks before practices began.

All three, are off to terrific starts accounting for a total of two losses on the season so far.

What is it like to adjust to a last minute coaching change? What is it like to take over a program, or enter an athletic department and school, in such perceived turmoil? How hard is it to put the blinders on and focus at the task at hand? We follow up Ryan Scott's terrific story last week with a chat with two players and a coach on the experience of dealing with change.

Plus, after years of waiting it finally happened! Division III women's basketball is getting it's own All-Star Game! Williams' coach Pat Manning discusses the long journey to the announcement, how they found a sponsor, and why the game will be the center piece of changing the women's Championship Weekend altogether.

Hoopsville is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. You can watch Thursday's show live starting at 7:00 p.m. ET here: http://bit.ly/2E4YCb4.

If you have questions about Division III basketball, feel free to send them and we will answer them on a the show. Email them to hoopsville@d3hoops.com or use any of the social media options below.

Guests Schedule (order subject to change):
- Jean Bain, Brandeis men's coach
- Chase Kumor, Salisbury men's senior
- Cassidy Williams, No. 11 Trine women's senior
- Pat Manning, Williams' head coach & WBCA All-Star Game Committee member

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Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on December 08, 2018, 05:51:07 PM
Tough test for Hope today, the Flying Dutch came back from down 4 entering the 4th to win by 8.  Not sure exactly what happened to the Dutch in the 3rd except they couldn't throw the ball in the ocean and Albion could, so the Brits won the quarter 25-9.  Albion has a nice team, very tough and good on the boards.  They came in 7-1 with their only loss being to undefeated WI-Stout.  They are going to be trouble throughout the year for everyone they play.  Tough game like this can only help the Dutch, who hadn't really been tested and look to be lined up to run into a buzzsaw next weekend with Thomas More.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on December 15, 2018, 07:21:46 AM
Solid win for the Dutch last night over overmatched Finlandia.  Nice to see all 17 players on the roster, including several from JV, played between 9-16 minutes.

That sets up a big game vs Thomas More today.  Though Hope has a higher ranking in the polls #2 vs #4 and they're playing at Devos, Massey has TMU as #1 and favors the Saints 76-65.  TMU knocked off Hope in the NCAA sectionals at Devos last year, and though they lost 4 of 5 starters the Saints still feature POY candidate Madison Temple.  She carried the Saints over the Dutch last year and as far as I can see, she's improved even further.  Hope has more balance and more weapons but I haven't seen that Hope has a lock down defender that could contain Temple.   In years past, standout Hope defenders such as Autumn Anderson, Hannah Doell or even PG Liz Ellis might have matched up with Temple to slow her down somewhat.  If Temple has another big game, I think the Dutch will need to counter with at least 4 players in doubles figure to have a chance. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on December 31, 2018, 06:19:13 PM
After they were thumped by Thomas More I questioned whether Hope was as strong as I thought. But after solids wins during the holidays over a very solid Oglethorpe squad and handing UW Oshkosh its first loss, I am thinking that yes Hope is very good and Thomas More is quite outstanding. 

The Flying Dutch jump right back into it Wednesday with a crucial league game hosting Trine.  Even though it's the first league game, it should establish the clear MIAA team to beat.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: OC_SID on December 31, 2018, 07:43:29 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on December 31, 2018, 06:19:13 PM
The Flying Dutch jump right back into it Wednesday with a crucial league game hosting Trine.  Even though it's the first league game, it should establish the clear MIAA team to beat.

Not the first league game. Remember, the women play either three or four MIAA games before the holidays.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on December 31, 2018, 07:49:33 PM
Of course you're right, seems so long ago that I completely forgot!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 31, 2018, 08:30:50 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on December 31, 2018, 06:19:13 PM
After they were thumped by Thomas More I questioned whether Hope was as strong as I thought. But after solids wins during the holidays over a very solid Oglethorpe squad and handing UW Oshkosh its first loss, I am thinking that yes Hope is very good and Thomas More is quite outstanding. 

The Flying Dutch jump right back into it Wednesday with a crucial league game hosting Trine.  Even though it's the first league game, it should establish the clear MIAA team to beat.

IMO (with no offense to Bowdoin), I think Thomas More is CLEARLY the #1 team in the country.  Bowdoin is destroying their opponents, but with the exception of Mass-Dartmouth (their only win by less than ten), they appear to be a bunch of tomato cans.  Thomas More is destroying some VERY good teams (Hope, Chicago, Wheaton, DePauw, Whitewater, etc.), and ALL on the road!  If you gave me even odds on TM vs. the field for the national title, I'd lean towards TM (though only a very modest wager - a title requires good health and good luck, in addition to skill).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on December 31, 2018, 10:37:26 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 31, 2018, 08:30:50 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on December 31, 2018, 06:19:13 PM
After they were thumped by Thomas More I questioned whether Hope was as strong as I thought. But after solids wins during the holidays over a very solid Oglethorpe squad and handing UW Oshkosh its first loss, I am thinking that yes Hope is very good and Thomas More is quite outstanding. 

The Flying Dutch jump right back into it Wednesday with a crucial league game hosting Trine.  Even though it’s the first league game, it should establish the clear MIAA team to beat.

IMO (with no offense to Bowdoin), I think Thomas More is CLEARLY the #1 team in the country.  Bowdoin is destroying their opponents, but with the exception of Mass-Dartmouth (their only win by less than ten), they appear to be a bunch of tomato cans.  Thomas More is destroying some VERY good teams (Hope, Chicago, Wheaton, DePauw, Whitewater, etc.), and ALL on the road!  If you gave me even odds on TM vs. the field for the national title, I'd lean towards TM (though only a very modest wager - a title requires good health and good luck, in addition to skill).

I haven't seen Bowdoin play but you won't get any argument about TM from me....
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on January 01, 2019, 07:32:30 PM
I've only seen the Trine WBB team play a couple times so far this year.  Big first game after the new year tomorrow night at Hope.  The biggest difference I've seen in Trine this year is the production they've lost at the Center position.  Hayley Martin was such a defensive force inside and was also the 2nd leading scorer.  Soph Shay Herbert starts and is spelled by Frosh Kelsey Taylor.  They both avg 5 pts a game, but don't defend or rebound as well as Hayley.  This isn't the same Trine team as the last 2 years.  Yes they are still pretty good, but going up against a really good and deep Hope team in their barn is going to be tough to pull out a W.  Also we are coming off a loss to Transylvania in their Holiday tournament, and I'm not sure what the status of Cassidy Williams is as the starting swing player did not play at all, not sure if she was injured in the previous game or battling illness.  If she doesn't play then it will be a long night as she is the leader on the floor. I have Hope winning by 15-20.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 03, 2019, 11:37:53 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on January 01, 2019, 07:32:30 PM
I've only seen the Trine WBB team play a couple times so far this year.  Big first game after the new year tomorrow night at Hope.  The biggest difference I've seen in Trine this year is the production they've lost at the Center position.  Hayley Martin was such a defensive force inside and was also the 2nd leading scorer.  Soph Shay Herbert starts and is spelled by Frosh Kelsey Taylor.  They both avg 5 pts a game, but don't defend or rebound as well as Hayley.  This isn't the same Trine team as the last 2 years.  Yes they are still pretty good, but going up against a really good and deep Hope team in their barn is going to be tough to pull out a W.  Also we are coming off a loss to Transylvania in their Holiday tournament, and I'm not sure what the status of Cassidy Williams is as the starting swing player did not play at all, not sure if she was injured in the previous game or battling illness.  If she doesn't play then it will be a long night as she is the leader on the floor. I have Hope winning by 15-20.

Well I didn't buy into the victory margin your projected, thinking Massey's predicted 4 point margin was more likely, but neither did I see the thrashing Trine laid on Hope coming either!  Nice job by the Thunder.  Sometimes the ball just goes in the hole but seems to me that good ball movement by Trine and some atypical defensive lapses by Hope contributed to Trine's great shooting %.  Hope will have to improve its own shooting and fix the defense if it hopes to win the rematch.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on January 03, 2019, 12:34:51 PM
I was at the game and was very impressed with Trine defense and ability to stop Hope runs.

Hope seemed disinterested in playing any defense at all or beating Trine down the court to at least attempt to defend.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on January 03, 2019, 01:17:09 PM
I've watched Hope twice and they really struggled to generate offense inside the three-point arc, other than dumping it to Buchanan and letting her use her favorite post move (back the player down, spin to her right and shoot with her left hand). Granted, that was against Thomas More and Oshkosh which have unusual size and depth at forward. Did Hope have the same problem last night against Trine?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dykstraj@hope.edu on January 03, 2019, 02:45:15 PM
Someone needs teach them how to make a 2 foot put-back off the backboard.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on January 03, 2019, 05:05:30 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 03, 2019, 11:37:53 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on January 01, 2019, 07:32:30 PM
I've only seen the Trine WBB team play a couple times so far this year.  Big first game after the new year tomorrow night at Hope.  The biggest difference I've seen in Trine this year is the production they've lost at the Center position.  Hayley Martin was such a defensive force inside and was also the 2nd leading scorer.  Soph Shay Herbert starts and is spelled by Frosh Kelsey Taylor.  They both avg 5 pts a game, but don't defend or rebound as well as Hayley.  This isn't the same Trine team as the last 2 years.  Yes they are still pretty good, but going up against a really good and deep Hope team in their barn is going to be tough to pull out a W.  Also we are coming off a loss to Transylvania in their Holiday tournament, and I'm not sure what the status of Cassidy Williams is as the starting swing player did not play at all, not sure if she was injured in the previous game or battling illness.  If she doesn't play then it will be a long night as she is the leader on the floor. I have Hope winning by 15-20.

Well I didn't buy into the victory margin your projected, thinking Massey's predicted 4 point margin was more likely, but neither did I see the thrashing Trine laid on Hope coming either!  Nice job by the Thunder.  Sometimes the ball just goes in the hole but seems to me that good ball movement by Trine and some atypical defensive lapses by Hope contributed to Trine's great shooting %.  Hope will have to improve its own shooting and fix the defense if it hopes to win the rematch.

My margin of victory prediction was factoring Williams not playing last night.  I still thought that Hope would win even with a healthy Williams, by 5-10 pts.  I'm just as shocked as everyone else by the outcome.  I caught a little bit of the 2nd half on video, by that time Trine had a healthy lead.  Sounded like we were shooting lights out thru 3 quarters, then survived a mini Hope run in the 4th, but the Trine lead was a little too insurmountable for Hope to come all the way back.  I have a question for you Hope fans, why did Buchanan only play 20 minutes last night?  I thought with her experience and talent she'd be on the floor 30-35 minutes in big games.  Is she battling an injury?  She wasn't in foul trouble, so when I saw the box score and saw she only played 20 minutes I wasn't sure why.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on January 09, 2019, 10:44:11 AM
Checking schedules for tonight's games to watch and noticed Brittany Berry, former Hope player, interim coach at Olivet?

Anyone know anything? 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 09, 2019, 11:22:38 AM
Quote from: bballforever on January 09, 2019, 10:44:11 AM
Checking schedules for tonight's games to watch and noticed Brittany Berry, former Hope player, interim coach at Olivet?

Anyone know anything? 

Interesting, had heard she was coaching but didn't know where.  She was one of the most entertaining D3 WBB players I ever saw.  Outstanding 3 point shot (one year led the nation in 3 pt %, all divisions I believe) and at least once a game would draw gasps from the fans with a pinpoint no-look pass through a crowd.  Wish her well, except against Hope :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 09, 2019, 01:14:14 PM
She's been on the Oliver staff for a couple years - I think the interim thing might be new
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 09, 2019, 02:08:20 PM
Like, today new
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bballforever on January 11, 2019, 06:50:47 AM
Hope Calvin women this weekend!!!  Not as much excitement as in the past but still plenty.

Thinking back on the history and can't help but think of the final second shot by Calvin to win MIAA.  Big crowd, lots of twists and turns then the shot. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Jameswys on January 12, 2019, 10:49:36 PM
Congratulations to intrim Head Coach Brittany Berry on her first MIAA win. Olivet beat Kalamazoo 50-44 on the road this afternoon. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 13, 2019, 06:48:47 AM
Quote from: bballforever on January 11, 2019, 06:50:47 AM
Hope Calvin women this weekend!!!  Not as much excitement as in the past but still plenty.

Thinking back on the history and can't help but think of the final second shot by Calvin to win MIAA.  Big crowd, lots of twists and turns then the shot. 

Pretty much a wire to wire win for Hope, but Calvin never allowed the Dutch to get comfortable.  Calvin played great D and most of Hope's younger players had tough shooting nights, maybe also feeling the pressure of the Rivalry and it seems Hope almost never shoots well at Van Noord.  The difference was that Hope senior All American Frankie Buchanan had a huge night with 25 pts on 12-18 shooting and 13 rebs including 6 on the offensive end.  Hope had 10 more offensive rebs than Calvin and fewer turnovers, resulting in 15 more shot attempts.  In a game where both teams played strong D and shooting percentages were low, the extra attempts made the difference for Hope.


Gabby Timmer was very good and is going to have an outstanding career at Calvin.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 14, 2019, 03:29:49 PM
According to the college, Chuck Winkelman has resigned his position as head coach of the Calvin Women's team.

http://calvinknights.com/sports/wbkb/2018-19/releases/20190114lkmi40
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 14, 2019, 04:14:45 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 14, 2019, 03:29:49 PM
According to the college, Chuck Winkelman has resigned his position as head coach of the Calvin Women's team.

http://calvinknights.com/sports/wbkb/2018-19/releases/20190114lkmi40

Hmm...  The press release definitely sounded to me like "We'll let you save face by resigning; otherwise you're fired" - especially coming in mid-season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 14, 2019, 05:11:50 PM
It always felt like a weird hire to me.   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 14, 2019, 05:23:10 PM
Crazy season within the women's MIAA coaching ranks!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on January 15, 2019, 07:44:47 AM
Quote from: sac on January 14, 2019, 05:11:50 PM
It always felt like a weird hire to me.
Me too!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 15, 2019, 12:03:36 PM
Congrats to Hope's Frankie Buchanan for being named to the d3hoops.com national team of the week.  She averaged 24 points, 12 rebs and shot 70% in two wins including at Calvin.  Well done!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 26, 2019, 10:39:48 AM
Big MIAA game today with Hope at Trine.  The outcome likely determines whether Trine wins the regular season outright or shares the regular season title with Hope.  The polls have Hope just in front of Trine, but given the beating Trine put on Hope at Devos and that they're hosting I have to think Trine is the solid favorite.  Massey has Trine favored by 5 with a 64% chance of winning; sounds about right to me.  Hope must defend much better than it did in the first game to have a chance.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on January 26, 2019, 11:27:38 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 26, 2019, 10:39:48 AM
Big MIAA game today with Hope at Trine.  The outcome likely determines whether Trine wins the regular season outright or shares the regular season title with Hope.  The polls have Hope just in front of Trine, but given the beating Trine put on Hope at Devos and that they're hosting I have to think Trine is the solid favorite.  Massey has Trine favored by 5 with a 64% chance of winning; sounds about right to me.  Hope must defend much better than it did in the first game to have a chance.

I'm sure Hope's coaching staff has broken down the video countless times from the 1st game and will make the necessary adjustments.  I don't expect Trine to shoot "lights out" for 3 quarters like they did in the 1st meeting.  Some of our rotations girls are playing much better, the 3 freshmen Bieniewicz, Taylor, Wilder are all playing much more confidently in the second half of the season.  Senior Duff is a gal you don't want to leave alone on the 3 point line.  Hope's advantage over Trine is size.  Buchanan wasn't much of a factor in the 1st game.  She has to play much better this time around for Hope.  Dawson has to stay out of foul trouble for Trine.  We also have to shoot FTs much better than we did Wednesday night against Calvin.

Speaking of Calvin, they started 5 freshmen against Trine last game.  They are going to be a difficult team to beat in the coming years.  Was impressed with Timmer and Coors especially.  It was quite fun to watch our freshman Taylor bang against Calvin's freshman Timmer.  Neither one was backing down, in fact the refs once called a double foul on them for excessive physical play.  It's gonna be a good rivalry in the coming years.   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 26, 2019, 12:23:50 PM
I agree about Calvin's Timmer, really impressed with her play especially as a freshman.

Aside from Buchanan, Hope's top 10 in minutes, points and rebs are all sophomores or freshman.  Looks like Trine, Calvin and Hope are set to have some good battles near the top of the league for years to come.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on January 26, 2019, 07:59:16 PM
Final from Angola...Trine 78 Hope 72

This was a fantastic, well played game today by 2 very talented teams.  The 3 point shooting by both squads was excellent.  Buchanan played an outstanding game for Hope and finished with 27, she dominated the 3rd quarter and singlehandidly kept Hope right there thru 3 quarters.  Schoonveld is going to be their next All American after she gets out of Buchanan's shadow next year, she just has a silky smooth all around game, can hit from out and take it to the rack too.  Honestly I think she needs to take over the game more, sometimes she's a little too unselfish.  I thought Gerber off the bench was clutch, I hadn't heard anything about this gal coming in to today's game but boy she was shooting well, one of her made 3 pointers was NBA range.

For Trine it was a very balanced attack.  Like I mentioned above this was probably the best I've seen us hit from behind the arc.  Martin, Duff, and Bieniewicz all hit some huge 3s, none bigger than Tara's 3 towards the end of the game with Trine clinging to a 4pt lead.  Hope really made it tough sledding for Dawson.  Their D collapsed on her most every time she got the ball.  She hit some tough shots, but also tried to force a few more in double and triple team situations.  But she's our All American, she has the ability to score when we need it most.  Hope's sub Russell played very physical with her when she was in, had a lot of fouls, I think it got Dawson fired up thinking she was a bit overly agressive in her play.  Williams I thought was probably the player of the game for Trine.  Her play is similar to Schoonveld, usually it's driving to get to the rack, but her outside shooting is night and day better then her previous 3 years at Trine, you can tell she has put in the work.  She was also clutch in FTs, which I thought would be key in the game, and it was good to see us hit 75% from the line today.

So it appears Trine is in the drivers seat to host the MIAA tournament the end of February.  Only real test the rest of the way will be a road trip to Albion, which has a pretty good team too.  Nice contingent at the game from Hope today, but their fans always travel fairly well.   

Sidenote:  the shot clocks at MTI malfunctioned around 3 minutes into the 1st quarter.  After a lenghty delay trying to get them up and running again, the officials decided to not use the clocks the rest of the 1st half.  I've seen this happen a few times, but for the most part it was a nonfactor, an announcer at the scoring table would start counting down when the shot clock got to 10.  Some Trine students thought they'd do their own countdown when Hope had the ball, but this was quickly squelched with a PA announcement to stop.  They behaved the rest of the half.  ;D   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 30, 2019, 01:51:48 PM
(https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=710/cr=n/d=m5lxl/o3h5z2xs7txn530n.jpg)

The Hoopsville Marathon Show ... is tomorrow!

Tune in starting at 12:00 p.m. ET as we talk to guests from around the country about nothing but #d3hoops.

It is all about celebrating the season, student-athletes, coaches, and an exciting season.

For more information, click here: http://bit.ly/2HGx0N3

We will share more about the show a little later.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on January 31, 2019, 06:18:20 PM
Great news coming out of Trine University today.  Andy Rang has been promoted from Interim Head Coach to Head Coach of the Women's Basketball program.  I am so glad that it is now official.  He has done an absolutely tremendous job transitioning the program from the difficult fall camp when Coach Gould was let go, to leading the women to another outstanding season so far.   ;D

https://www.trinethunder.com/sports/wbkb/2018-19/releases/20190129gwjwbi
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 04, 2019, 05:07:15 PM
What a weekend!

It was one of those sets of days we have seen often in Division III where at every turn there was something to watch, a result to ponder, and upset to breakdown. The hardwoods across the country had games worth watching all with just three weeks left in the regular season.

It started with Dave and Pat's trip to Holland, Michigan to witness the 200th meeting of Calvin and Hope. The game at DeVos Fieldhouse lived up to expectations. From the crowd to the battle on the court, every moment was a thrill ride.

And the Super Weekend didn't stop there. A number of teams in both Top 25s took losses that not only will shake up the polls, but also shakes up conferences races and adds plenty of intrigue for the first Regional Rankings to be released this week. Oh, and a 200-point explosion from a high-powered offense!

On this special, Monday, edition of Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com), Dave and guests have plenty to try and breakdown. Dave will share his reactions from "The Rivalry" and you will hear one of the crazier stories on how a mom names a son. Plus, hear about the Greenville-Fontbonne game which saw 346 points put on the board. And coaches from Hamilton men and East Texas Baptist women along with one of the top players for WashU women give us insight on how their teams are doing.

Ryan Scott also joins Dave as they give their initial reactions to the latest Top 25 polls and more.

Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. Monday's show can be see LIVE here: http://bit.ly/2UGhZw2 (and simulcast on Facebook Live and Periscope).

If you have questions about Division III basketball, feel free to send them and we will answer them on a the show. Email them to dave.mchugh@d3sports.com or use any of the social media options to the right.

Guests Schedule (order subject to change):
- George Barber, Greenville men's head coach
- Adam Stockwell, No. 8 Hamilton
- Becca Clark-Callender, WashU. women's senior guard
- "What Is In a Name?," Dina Hackert, Hope '91
- Rusty Rainbolt, No. 15 East Texas Baptist women's coach
- Ryan Scott, D3hoops.com senior writer (Top 25 Double-Take)

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Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 06, 2019, 02:41:30 PM
First women's regional rankings are out: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2019/02/women-regional-rankings-first
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 13, 2019, 02:56:01 PM
Regional Rankings Week 2 released: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2019/02/women-regional-rankings-second
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 15, 2019, 01:05:42 PM
Winner of the MIAA might get a shot at hosting if its Trine or Hope depending on what happens with Transylvania.  At the moment both are looking at being on the road in the first round. 

Potential sites right now look like Thomas More, Transylvania, Chicago, UW-Oshkosh or Wartburg.  Should be interesting how that shakes out.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on February 19, 2019, 06:02:00 PM
Congratulations to Brandi Dawson and Cassidy Williams of Trine for being named 1st team MIAA.  Also to Brandi for being league MVP for 3 straight years.

Here is the complete list: https://www.miaa.org/sports/wbkb/2018-19/releases/AllMIAA2019

Really no surprises on 1st team, that is how I would have selected them as well.  Of those on the 2nd team I think Giovanna Paradiso of Saint Mary's could have been considered for 1st.  She had a nice year, and I was impressed with her game in the matchup at Trine. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 20, 2019, 03:03:38 PM
The new NCAA Division III women's basketball regional rankings are posted: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2019/02/women-regional-rankings-third
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on February 24, 2019, 08:25:07 AM
Kudos to Trine for a league championship, a tournament championship, and three victories over Hope. Last night they demonstrated that they are much more than MVP Brandi Dawson. Here's wishing them a long tournament run—on the opposite side of the bracket from Hope.

Quick observations:
1)   Hope's young team, with four soph starters, have done better each Trine match-up. . . which hopefully bodes well for the tournament and a possible repeat match-up.
2)   On a night when Dawson was held in check, Trine's team defense was impenetrable—packing the paint to shut down Frankie and drives to the basket (albeit with many puppy shots missed on a frustrating night), yet quickly rotating to limit open 3's. And 23 Hope turnovers (albeit many unforced)! Hope's defense likewise was outstanding—keeping Hope in the game. Olivia Voskuil's defending Dawson seemed a great defensive coaching move.
3)   Speaking of Olivia, her development these past two years bodes well for the future. Her shooting, agility with the ball, and seeming self-confidence have all increased. And her defense! (Trine was surely happy to have her on the bench when it scored its end-of-game winning baskets from in close.)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on February 24, 2019, 01:11:15 PM
Quote from: pointlem on February 24, 2019, 08:25:07 AM
Kudos to Trine for a league championship, a tournament championship, and three victories over Hope. Last night they demonstrated that they are much more than MVP Brandi Dawson. Here's wishing them a long tournament run—on the opposite side of the bracket from Hope.

Quick observations:
1)   Hope's young team, with four soph starters, have done better each Trine match-up. . . which hopefully bodes well for the tournament and a possible repeat match-up.
2)   On a night when Dawson was held in check, Trine's team defense was impenetrable—packing the paint to shut down Frankie and drives to the basket (albeit with many puppy shots missed on a frustrating night), yet quickly rotating to limit open 3's. And 23 Hope turnovers (albeit many unforced)! Hope's defense likewise was outstanding—keeping Hope in the game. Olivia Voskuil's defending Dawson seemed a great defensive coaching move.
3)   Speaking of Olivia, her development these past two years bodes well for the future. Her shooting, agility with the ball, and seeming self-confidence have all increased. And her defense! (Trine was surely happy to have her on the bench when it scored its end-of-game winning baskets from in close.)

Congratulations to Trine for winning the MIAA tournament championship last night.  What a game.  It wasn't pretty, but that was to be expected somewhat.  Both of these teams know each other's games so well, the defenses on both sides I thought was just phenominal.  I know that is what seperates Hope and Trine from the rest of the league, is that their defenses are far superior to the rest of the MIAA.  Yes there was a lot of turnovers by both teams, but the defenses were responsible for the majority of them.  Cassidy Williams played very well on a night that Brandi Dawson was held on check by Voskuil.  Dawson had 2 quick fouls in the 2nd quarter and sat out the rest of the half.  I thought at that time that Hope had to really build up a decent lead while she was out, if they didn't I thought the second half would favor Trine.  Credit to Trine for clawing back in it at the end of the 2nd quarter.  The second half was back and forth, Dawson went out again in the 4th when she apparently tweaked an ankle during a scuffle under the basket for a rebound.  Freshman Kelsey Taylor really stepped up and played some very good minutes off the bench.  She was very physical with Buchanan.  Trine's defense on Buchanan was instrumental in the win, we really did a good job of collapsing on her when she got the ball in the post.  Trine eventually had a couple end of game and end of 1st OT shots to win but they both rimmed out (that 1st OT session was pretty ugly).  Then at the end of the 2nd OT Montana Martin hit a huge +1 bucket on a drive to the hoop.  Both teams left a lot of points off the scoreboard with some ugly FT shooting down the stretch, but there was a lot of pressure, plus the girls had to be running on empty with the length of the game. 

Congratulations to Hope, your team is going to go deep in the tournament.  Good combo of nice guard and interior play, not very many teams can match your length.  Congratulations to Trine and Coach Rang and staff on an excellent season especially after the fall camp change in the coaching leadership.  Trine should get to host a regional next weekend.  If they don't it will be a huge travesty.       
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 24, 2019, 02:19:15 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 24, 2019, 01:11:15 PM

Congratulations to Hope, your team is going to go deep in the tournament.  Good combo of nice guard and interior play, not very many teams can match your length.  Congratulations to Trine and Coach Rang and staff on an excellent season especially after the fall camp change in the coaching leadership.  Trine should get to host a regional next weekend.  If they don't it will be a huge travesty.     

Transylvania won the HCAC they were in a better position to host after last weeks ranking.  Travesty? no, just the frustrating imbalance of powers within womens D3 basketball that puts teams with great records on the road in the NCAA tournament.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on February 25, 2019, 02:54:32 PM
So Hope and Trine fans can root for each other's teams all the way to a fantasy repeat of Saturday night's game for a national championship.  :D

But tough draw for Trine to be in the Thomas More first weekend bracket. TUAngola, Hope supporters will, I suspect, all be pulling for Thunder rolls.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 25, 2019, 02:58:31 PM
Quote from: pointlem on February 25, 2019, 02:54:32 PM
So Hope and Trine fans can root for each other's teams all the way to a fantasy repeat of Saturday night's game for a national championship.  :D

But tough draw for Trine to be in the Thomas More first weekend bracket. TUAngola, Hope supporters will, I suspect, all be pulling for Thunder rolls.

To clarify, we'll be pulling for Trine Thunder - but certainly not Wheaton Thunder!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HOPEful on February 25, 2019, 03:15:38 PM
Ouch, very harsh sending Trine to Thomas More. Hope's draw feels much more kind, . To be clear, Wheaton, Wartburg, DePauw, and OshKosh are all solid teams very capable of beating the Dutch, but Hope has to be pretty ecstatic to avoid Thomas More and Trine until the Championship game and not have to play a top 10 team until the elite 8.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2019, 03:52:05 PM

I never imagined our terrible mock bracket would actually be that much better than what the committee came up with.  I don't think their bracket is bad, but I do think there was room for improvement.  I always marvel at how coaches look at things so much differently from outsiders to the process.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 25, 2019, 04:50:43 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2019, 03:52:05 PM

I never imagined our terrible mock bracket would actually be that much better than what the committee came up with.  I don't think their bracket is bad, but I do think there was room for improvement.  I always marvel at how coaches look at things so much differently from outsiders to the process.

I think you're being polite, Trine got hosed :)

Us MIAA fans can only hope for a repeat of two years ago when an MIAA team (Hope in that case) knocked off defending national champ and unbeaten Thomas More in the 2nd round, also on Thomas More's home court.  Go Trine!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on February 25, 2019, 06:16:20 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 25, 2019, 04:50:43 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2019, 03:52:05 PM

I never imagined our terrible mock bracket would actually be that much better than what the committee came up with.  I don't think their bracket is bad, but I do think there was room for improvement.  I always marvel at how coaches look at things so much differently from outsiders to the process.

I think you're being polite, Trine got hosed :)

Us MIAA fans can only hope for a repeat of two years ago when an MIAA team (Hope in that case) knocked off defending national champ and unbeaten Thomas More in the 2nd round, also on Thomas More's home court.  Go Trine!

I thought that after last years brutally tough bracket for Trine there is absolutely no way they would get the shaft again from the D3 Selection Committee would they?  D3 says YES INDEED!! LET'SEE HOW MUCH WE CAN MESS WITH TRINE AGAIN!!  For your number 5 ranking Trine, you not only don't get to host the first round, you get to go to Thomas More for a potential round of 32 game, which should have been more like a round of 8 game.  Most mock brackets had Trine hosting...WRONG.  D3 says I'll think we'll let teams ranked in the 20s and 30s host some games instead...yeah that's the ticket!!  I don't know what else a team has to do.  Yes we lost to Transy in a Holiday tournament at their place, but did the committee know we were shorthanded that game?  Probably not.  The DePauw loss at home early in November by 2, did that ding us a lot?  Guess so.  This is just so unbelievable...could not fathom a draw being any worse for our gals.  It is what it is though.  To get to the final weekend you got to go thru TMU at some point.  But before that got to focus on the first game against Emory.  Don't know anything about their team.  Good luck this weekend gals!!       

Hope got a tough draw too...3 of the 4 teams in their bracket are ranked in the top 20...sorta like last year with IWU, DePauw and Trine.  I love this Hope team, go make some noise this weekend and kick some butt!! 

 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on February 25, 2019, 11:04:16 PM
Yes, a tough first weekend for Trine . . . but, if you place any stock in the D3Hoops top 25, if they can survive they would face no bigger challenge before a national championship game . . . while Hope's side of the bracket would potentially include, next weekend, #3 St. Thomas which has lost only one game--by 20 points, to . . . Wartburg. And then #1 Bowdoin.

So not an easy path for either team. Best to them both.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 26, 2019, 06:45:29 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 25, 2019, 06:16:20 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 25, 2019, 04:50:43 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2019, 03:52:05 PM

I never imagined our terrible mock bracket would actually be that much better than what the committee came up with.  I don't think their bracket is bad, but I do think there was room for improvement.  I always marvel at how coaches look at things so much differently from outsiders to the process.

I think you're being polite, Trine got hosed :)

Us MIAA fans can only hope for a repeat of two years ago when an MIAA team (Hope in that case) knocked off defending national champ and unbeaten Thomas More in the 2nd round, also on Thomas More's home court.  Go Trine!

I thought that after last years brutally tough bracket for Trine there is absolutely no way they would get the shaft again from the D3 Selection Committee would they?  D3 says YES INDEED!! LET'SEE HOW MUCH WE CAN MESS WITH TRINE AGAIN!!  For your number 5 ranking Trine, you not only don't get to host the first round, you get to go to Thomas More for a potential round of 32 game, which should have been more like a round of 8 game.  Most mock brackets had Trine hosting...WRONG.  D3 says I'll think we'll let teams ranked in the 20s and 30s host some games instead...yeah that's the ticket!!  I don't know what else a team has to do.  Yes we lost to Transy in a Holiday tournament at their place, but did the committee know we were shorthanded that game?  Probably not.  The DePauw loss at home early in November by 2, did that ding us a lot?  Guess so.  This is just so unbelievable...could not fathom a draw being any worse for our gals.  It is what it is though.  To get to the final weekend you got to go thru TMU at some point.  But before that got to focus on the first game against Emory.  Don't know anything about their team.  Good luck this weekend gals!!       

Hope got a tough draw too...3 of the 4 teams in their bracket are ranked in the top 20...sorta like last year with IWU, DePauw and Trine.  I love this Hope team, go make some noise this weekend and kick some butt!! 



My question, though, as always, is "what would I change."  I'd definitely not want Trine there, but where should they be?  With the geography this year, that's not an easy answer.

You could switch Chicago and Trine, but that only disadvantages another major conference champion and #2 regionally ranked team.

Maybe you could send Trine to WashU and fly George Fox to TMU?  That would be better and more fair, but maybe they didn't see it that way?

RIT can't get to TMU.  Hartwick can't get to TMU.  Haverford can't get to TMU.  It's a tough bracket for geography.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HOPEful on February 26, 2019, 09:49:20 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 25, 2019, 04:50:43 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2019, 03:52:05 PM

I never imagined our terrible mock bracket would actually be that much better than what the committee came up with.  I don't think their bracket is bad, but I do think there was room for improvement.  I always marvel at how coaches look at things so much differently from outsiders to the process.

I think you're being polite, Trine got hosed :)

Us MIAA fans can only hope for a repeat of two years ago when an MIAA team (Hope in that case) knocked off defending national champ and unbeaten Thomas More in the 2nd round, also on Thomas More's home court.  Go Trine!

You could also make and argument that Thomas More got hosed too! Neither team should be forced to play a legitimate title contender in the first weekend!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: GoPerry on February 26, 2019, 11:25:24 AM
Does Trine have archive video of this season's games?  The Youtube channel has nothing from this season.   Looking for the last Hope @ Trine matchup.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 26, 2019, 12:26:51 PM
Quote from: GoPerry on February 26, 2019, 11:25:24 AM
Does Trine have archive video of this season's games?  The Youtube channel has nothing from this season.   Looking for the last Hope @ Trine matchup.

I don't believe so.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 26, 2019, 04:56:45 PM
Trine being the third ranked team in the region made things more difficult: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2019/02/women-regional-rankings-final
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 28, 2019, 12:12:45 PM
Wartburg Pod

Offensive efficiency or Points per possession

Wartburg         1.07
Beth. Luth         .99
Hope               1.03
Wheaton           .97 

I don't have a lot of context for these numbers in women's basketball.  Wartburg seems really good on offense.


Defensive efficiency
Wartburg           .80
Beth. Luth         .81
Hope                 .67
Wheaton            .82

So Hope's been pretty good on defense it would seem.



Pace or possessions per game
Wartburg           71.5
Beth. Luth         75.9
Hope                 74.5
Wheaton            70.3

I wouldn't consider this a big contrast in pace, the difference is probably just transition opportunities


Four Factors

eFG%                Off             Def
Wartburg             55.0             41.1
Beth. Luth           48.1             40.1
Hope                   46.6             37.1
Wheaton              49.3             38.3

Yes, Wartburg is good at offense


Rebounding
          %Off rebounds   Opp%Off rebounds
Wartburg             39.6             28.5
Beth. Luth           36.7             33.9
Hope                   42.6             28.2
Wheaton              31.9             32.1

Hope and Wartburg are good rebounding teams.



FT Rate
Wartburg             35.7             21.6
Beth. Luth           35.0              22.1
Hope                   30.1             24.5
Wheaton              29.2             26.6

Wartburg and Beth Lutheran get to the line a lot while not allowing their opponents to the line much, will be interesting how that plays out in their game.

Turnover Rate
                      TO rate          Opp TO rate          Margin
Wartburg             24.9              24.32                  -.58
Beth. Luth          22.1               25.6                    3.48
Hope                   18.7              31.1                  12.4
Wheaton             22.1              20.8                   -1.35

Holy cats look at Hope.


Like I mentioned up above I have no context for what these numbers mean in the women's game (whats good, whats not).  Based on efficiency w/sched adjustment I have this pod ranked Hope, Wartburg, Wheaton, Bethany Lutheran.  That doesn't really mean a lot because for Hope to advance they're going to have to beat two very good teams, potentially one on their home floor.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 28, 2019, 12:32:13 PM
Thanks sac - Hope's defensive efficiency and T/O rate seem to be pretty amazing, but like you I'm not sure how they rank relative to the women's game.

Did a little research on my own regarding the matchup with Wheaton, and found two common opponents.  Hope was 1-1, while Wheaton was 0-2:

versus Thomas More
Hope 61 - TM 81
Wheaton 49 - TM 71

versus UW Oshkosh
Hope 63 - UWO 57
Wheaton 48 - UWO 57


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 28, 2019, 12:49:01 PM
Really interesting, thanks Sac.

Massey has Hope over Wheaton by 5 with a win probability of 65%.  Certainly not a slam dunk.

On their court, Massey has Wartburg over Hope by 4 with a 62% win probability.  Were it a neutral court, Massey still gives the edge to Wartburg by 2 with 55% win probability.

Seems like a very competitive pod, anything could happen.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 28, 2019, 05:31:39 PM
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Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on March 01, 2019, 06:56:03 PM
Trine survives first round game against Emory 57-54.  Neither team shot the ball well.  Emory got off to a nice start, hit 5 three pointers in the 1st half and led at the break, but Trine with a better job defensively in the second half.  Emory's center, Ashley Oldshue was a handful, 24 pts, 12 reb.  For Trine, the difference was at the line, we go 19-24 and Emory 5-11.  Dawson with 22 and Williams with 18. 

Got to play much, much better against Thomas More to even have a shot at an upset.  If Trine play's like they did tonight it will be over early. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 01, 2019, 08:19:38 PM
Hope with an ugly first half, shot 21% and was down 27-21 at the half. Great second half on both ends of the floor to win 67-55 over a good Wheaton team.  Frankie with 20pts, 8 boards, and 5 assists to lead the way
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 02, 2019, 06:46:35 PM
Trine up over Thomas More 19-6 after 1.  Didn't see that coming!  Long way to go.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 02, 2019, 06:47:10 PM
Huge 1st quarter by Trine up 19-6!!  Great D by Trine forcing 8 Thomas More TOs
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on March 02, 2019, 06:48:09 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 02, 2019, 06:46:35 PM
Trine up over Thomas More 19-6 after 1.  Didn't see that coming!  Long way to go.

Can we call the game?  :o  Great defensive 1st qtr.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on March 02, 2019, 06:52:02 PM
We need to hit some more shots, lots of open looks so far.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on March 02, 2019, 07:09:32 PM
Trine 31, TMU 20 at the break.  Sloppy 2nd qtr for Trine, but still playing very well defensively.  Both Dawson and Williams in a little foul trouble with 2 each.   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 02, 2019, 07:17:04 PM
Gotta be happy with that lead but you can bet TM will play much better in the second half. Keep up the tough D and get ready for the comeback effort.   Play well and the game is yours Go Thunder
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on March 02, 2019, 07:19:33 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 02, 2019, 07:17:04 PM
Gotta be happy with that lead but you can bet TM will play much better in the second half. Keep up the tough D and get ready for the comeback effort.   Play well and the game is yours Go Thunder
Yes, very happy with our girls effort so far.  Interior defense has been fantastic.  TMU has left some points off the board by missing some kickout open 3s.  You know the TMU run will be coming, hoping it doesn't though.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on March 02, 2019, 07:31:25 PM
TMU is heating up... :(
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on March 02, 2019, 07:37:59 PM
Ugh...nothing going right for Trine now...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 02, 2019, 07:40:08 PM
And TMU playing like the #1 in the nation this quarter
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on March 02, 2019, 07:47:30 PM
Down 48-43 heading to 4th.  Got outscored 28-12 in 3rd qtr.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on March 02, 2019, 07:53:24 PM
Madison Temple is taking over...she is dominating on the offensive end.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on March 02, 2019, 07:58:30 PM
TMU is just dominating us on the offensive boards...I'd hate to see what their 2nd chance points are...as well as we played defense and rebounded the 1st half, we are simply getting outhustled the 2nd...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on March 02, 2019, 08:17:50 PM
It's over, Thomas More 67 Trine 59.  Better team won tonight, TMU is very talented, but can't be more proud of the way Trine played.  Last game for Brandi, Cassidy, Montana and Shaely.  What a great group of gals...it's been so much fun watching these ladies play these past 4 years.  What they've done for the Trine program is tremendous, they've laid the foundation for women's basketball for years to come.  Congrats Trine on a great season.  Wish it wouldn't have ended so soon.   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2019, 08:24:09 PM
Kudos to Trine for hanging so close, and even having an 11-point half time lead.  I think TMU is this year even better than when they had Sidney Moss.  I will be totally shocked if they don't win the 'big doorstop' (as Greg Sager would phrase it).

The draw may have been unavoidable for the bean-counters, but the #5 ranked team should not have to play at the #1 ranked team in the round of 32! :o
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on March 02, 2019, 08:36:24 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2019, 08:24:09 PM
Kudos to Trine for hanging so close, and even having an 11-point half time lead.  I think TMU is this year even better than when they had Sidney Moss.  I will be totally shocked if they don't win the 'big doorstop' (as Greg Sager would phrase it).

The draw may have been unavoidable for the bean-counters, but the #5 ranked team should not have to play at the #1 ranked team in the round of 32! :o

I agree the it was HUGELY DISAPPOINTING that the D3 committee blew it on the draw.  I listened to Hoopsville's interview of the D3 womens tournament committe chair and it was laughable when the question about the TMU-Trine draw came up.  You thought you were listening to a politician.  She really didn't explain why, said a bunch of words that didn't answer the question at all.  They NEED TO DO A BETTER JOB of putting the bracket together.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 02, 2019, 08:39:21 PM
What an awful first half for the Hope women, who trail Wartburg 49-17 at the half. 24-5 in the second quarter...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on March 02, 2019, 08:40:58 PM
Wow...Hope down big at Wartburg.  I didn't see that coming.  Wartburg shooting lights out the 1st half.  Probably too big of a deficit to come back.  This is hugely disappointing!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 04, 2019, 04:52:33 PM
Disappointing ends to impressive seasons for both Trine and Hope. Although 63 of 64 tournament teams end their years on a down note, that shouldn't detract from the excellent careers of the respective seniors, whose play and personalities gave us much pleasure. Congrats to all.

For Hope, the return of four sophomore starters plus a deep bench plus new recruits promise an exciting next couple years. Can't wait.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 04, 2019, 05:06:35 PM
Trine's demise (though unfair that it was so early) was fully expected, and I thought they acquitted themselves quite admirably against the best team in D3.  Personally, even though Hope was ranked one place higher than Wartburg, I expected them to get beat - I did NOT expect them to get totally run out of town! :o

Congratulations to both on extremely good seasons.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 06, 2019, 04:04:22 PM
Congrats to both Francesca Buchanan (Hope) and Brandi Dawson (Trine) on being named to the inaugural D3 Women's All-Star game to be played on March 16 at 5pm - just prior to the Women's D3 National Championship game!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on March 17, 2019, 09:38:28 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 06, 2019, 04:04:22 PM
Congrats to both Francesca Buchanan (Hope) and Brandi Dawson (Trine) on being named to the inaugural D3 Women's All-Star game to be played on March 16 at 5pm - just prior to the Women's D3 National Championship game!!!
Trine's Brandi Dawson and Hope's Francesca Buchanan both end their outstanding college basketball careers with very nice games yesterday in the D3 All Star game.  Dawson finished with 16 pts and Buchanan with 12 pts for Team Manning, but their squad lost to Team Strong 99-77.  More post season accolades for both as Dawson was voted 1st team D3hoops.com All American and Buchanan 4th team.  It was a privilege to watch both these gals these past 4 years, you represented your institutions and the MIAA very well!

Thomas More concludes their outstanding season by winning the D3 national championship over Bowdoin. Now they move on to NAIA division.

Looking forward to next season, it can't come soon enough.  Obviously Hope should be the prohibitive favorites in the MIAA with everyone back of note except for Buchanan.  Calvin should make a leap upwards as they were very young last season, Timmer is a great talent.  Albion will be a veteran squad again, and I think the surprise of the league next year could be Alma, they only lose one starter and will only get better.  Saint Mary's will also be a pesky team to play. 

Trine loses 3 starters in Dawson, Williams and Martin and key backup Duff, so it will be interesting to see what we look like next year.  We'll be very young, Katy Steers will be the only senior and returns at PG.  She will definitely be the vocal leader and is our defensive stalwart.  Shay Herbert returns at center, she will need to be counted on to be more of an offensive threat next year.  I think Tara Bieniewicz and Kayla Wildman will slide into the starting lineup after both had terrific freshman seasons as role players off the bench.  Both are skilled shooters.  If we want to go big Kelsy Taylor could be the 5th starter at center and then we'd slide Shay over to power forward.  We'd have 3 girls 6' or taller in the starting lineup which is crucial when trying to match up with Hope's height.  We also have several other gals who got didn't get much playing time as freshman last year, who could see more time on the court next year as there are minutes to be had.  The young gals will need a good off season of individual workouts to get a bit stronger.

 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 18, 2019, 04:39:31 PM
Hope has a commitment from Mattawan's Izzy Hoffman, looking forward to the Hope community giving her love and support.

Her video story appeared on Fox Sports MHSAA state finals broadcasts this weekend.  https://www.foxsports.com/detroit/story/earning-the-letter-winning-over-wilsons-video-011719

What a beautifully articulate and courageous young woman.  Keep the tissues close maybe.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on March 18, 2019, 04:52:43 PM
Quote from: sac on March 18, 2019, 04:39:31 PM
Hope has a commitment from Mattawan's Izzy Hoffman, looking forward to the Hope community giving her love and support.

Her video story appeared on Fox Sports MHSAA state finals broadcasts this weekend.  https://www.foxsports.com/detroit/story/earning-the-letter-winning-over-wilsons-video-011719

What a beautifully articulate and courageous young woman.  Keep the tissues close maybe.

Thank you for the link to Izzy's story.  What an awesome young lady!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on March 18, 2019, 11:46:32 PM
Wow, that is an awesome story.

Also wanted to say how much I enjoyed watching Frankie Buchanan interact with the Special Olympians. She has a heart of gold to go with that killer post move to her left.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 27, 2019, 04:27:33 PM
Olivet has named Brittany Berry their women's head coach.
https://www.olivetcomets.com/sports/wbkb/2018-19/releases/20190327n9feqc
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 27, 2019, 04:37:23 PM
Great choice Olivet!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Jameswys on March 27, 2019, 06:57:24 PM
Quote from: sac on March 27, 2019, 04:27:33 PM
Olivet has named Brittany Berry their women's head coach.
https://www.olivetcomets.com/sports/wbkb/2018-19/releases/20190327n9feqc

I'm very happy about this pick. I have heard good things about her from some of her Lax players and I hope she finds success as head coach in WBB. Now if only we  can get a staff IM basketball together next year...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 24, 2019, 11:40:35 AM
FYI: https://www.calvinknights.com/sports/wbkb/2018-19/releases/20190424d3ivqh
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on May 04, 2019, 09:12:23 AM
Olivet WBB has named 2019 Trine graduate and All-MIAA player Cassidy Williams to its coaching staff.  Fantastic addition to Brittany Berry's coaching staff.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BxBKHgJngTS/?utm_source=ig_twitter_share&igshid=13e6o8gujma5q
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Jameswys on May 04, 2019, 04:25:58 PM
Sounds like a good hire to the staff. I'm glad for Brittany and happy to welcome Cassidy to the Olivet family.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on June 10, 2019, 05:13:07 PM
Coaching news at Trine University WBB, assistant Coach Craig Taylor has announced his "retirement" so he can enjoy his grandkids more and attend their athletic events.  He was a long time high school coach in Fort Wayne and joined the Thunder staff 5 years ago. 

The Thunder also announced the hiring of new WBB assistant Coach Brandi Dawson.  As all of you know Brandi is probably the most decorated WBB in Tri State/Trine history and graduated last year as a 1st team All American.  Congratulations to Brandi as she begins her Coaching career with Trine.

*Side note - now that Olivet has former Thunder grad Cassidy Williams and Trine has grad Brandi Dawson as Assistant Coaches, I can see a new rivalry heating up.  You know Cassidy will be able to impart a lot of knowledge in Olivet's game preparation on how to defend the Thunder.  Should make for some interesting games.  Can't wait.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on June 10, 2019, 07:55:12 PM
An interesting summer 'down-season' question:  how good a team (men or women) could you put together of current head or assistant coaches?  (Feel free to think either in terms of current ages or in their prime.)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Jameswys on June 10, 2019, 09:38:21 PM
Olivet could field a pretty good co-ed squad. Hargraves, Berry, Cassidy Williams all from the MIAA and  Jeremiah Williams who started at Canisius. Not sure who the 5th would be though.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on September 30, 2019, 09:20:18 PM
MHSAA girls basketball finals returning to MSU's Breslin Center.  Should the MSU women's basketball program make and have to host NCAA tournament games this year, the 2020 finals will move to Hope College.  March 18, 19 and 20.

After this season they will move to Western Michigan Univ. if MSU womens basketball gets to host NCAA tournament games. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on October 25, 2019, 06:11:01 AM
Does anybody know what happened to Jenny Beckman? She isn't on Hope's roster.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on October 25, 2019, 05:50:02 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on October 25, 2019, 06:11:01 AM
Does anybody know what happened to Jenny Beckman? She isn't on Hope's roster.

Nevermind. I see her now. Don't know what happened. I looked twice this morning and didn't see her.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on October 25, 2019, 05:52:18 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on October 25, 2019, 05:50:02 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on October 25, 2019, 06:11:01 AM
Does anybody know what happened to Jenny Beckman? She isn't on Hope's roster.

Nevermind. I see her now. Don't know what happened. I looked twice this morning and didn't see her.

I hate my phone. Jenny Beckman really isn't on the roster. My phone was showing me last year's roster.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 01, 2019, 12:02:56 PM
Both Hope (at #6) and Trine (at #11) getting some love in the pre-season top 25:

https://www.d3hoops.com/top25/women/2019-20/preseason
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 01, 2019, 12:36:45 PM
Hope at #9 in the WBCA coaches poll, but they have Trine all the way down at #30.  Both teams lost All Americans, I suspect folks are just a little more used to seeing Hope near the top of the rankings and therefore give them the benefit of the doubt at preseason.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 01, 2019, 03:08:56 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on November 01, 2019, 12:36:45 PM
Hope at #9 in the WBCA coaches poll, but they have Trine all the way down at #30.  Both teams lost All Americans, I suspect folks are just a little more used to seeing Hope near the top of the rankings and therefore give them the benefit of the doubt at preseason.

That's really an apple to oranges comparison IMHO

Trine lost 4 seniors from last years team (William, Duff, Martin, and Dawson).  4 of their top 6 players who accounted for 56.6% of the points, 41.0% of the rebounds, 49.6% of the assists, and 46.4% of the minutes

Hope lost 1 senior (Buchanan).  She was their top player, but accounted for  19.2% of the points, 15.4% of the rebounds, 12.6% of the assists, and 11.4% of the minutes. 

If I'm being honest about it, Hope brings back so much of its 18-19 squad that I think their ranking in either poll makes sense.  The d3hoops poll has Trine too high in my opinion, maybe WBCA is more realistic, although losing that much, unranked might make sense.

Of course all of this is really just conjecture until we actually see some real games played.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 01, 2019, 03:39:15 PM
FDF, I completely agree with you.  I didn't make my point well, it was basically that voters will tend toward the status quo (e.g. like last year's rankings) unless they've done the kind of analysis that you have done that strongly suggests something different.  Not knocking the voters either, it would be a huge task to do that level of analysis for all the teams that could be potentially ranked.  As others have said it many times; I view the preseason polls as fun to discuss but not much more than that.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on November 01, 2019, 06:00:12 PM
I'm with you guys.

Trine isn't on my preseason ballot and I didn't even think that long about it before putting them in the "nope" pile.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 01, 2019, 08:19:16 PM
We in the CCIW have a similarly egregious situation in the men's preseason national poll of too many voters ignoring who is or is not coming back (despite Pat disseminating such information for all teams likely to receive any serious consideration; gordon do you do the same for the women?).  Not only did the national POY, Aston Francis, graduate, but Wheaton's second-best player is out for his career with a football injury, the probably third best potential returnee will likely miss at least 10 games because the fb team is so darned good, and some other important players graduated.  Wheaton ranked SIXTH in the preseason conference coaches' poll - despite ZERO votes for the 3rd, 4th, and 5th ranked teams, Wheaton received 45 points in the national poll! :o ::) 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on November 02, 2019, 10:26:09 PM
Yes, we collect and distribute the same information.

Wheaton men strike me as a little more of an established program than Trine women, but Aston Francis was at another level than anyone I can remember in D3 men's basketball in a while.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on November 05, 2019, 06:22:56 PM
Sophomore Gabby Timmer of Calvin named preseason honorable mention All American by D3hoops.com.  The only MIAA woman represented in the All American teams.

Coaches MIAA preseason poll should be coming out soon. 

My preseason predictions: 1) Hope  2) Calvin  3) Trine  4) Albion  5) Saint Marys  6) Alma  7) Adrian  8) Olivet  9) Kalamazoo

Lots of experience returning for most teams except for my Thunder who graduated 4 of their top 6 scorers, including All American Brandi Dawson.  I think Calvin will make the biggest leap in standings this year, even Albion could supplant Trine at 3.  I don't think Trine is going to fall completely off the map though.  Lots of young talent on the team, most got a lot of experience last year as we would usually go 12 deep most games.   

Anyone else want to weigh in on predictions?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on November 05, 2019, 06:36:19 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on November 01, 2019, 03:08:56 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on November 01, 2019, 12:36:45 PM
Hope at #9 in the WBCA coaches poll, but they have Trine all the way down at #30.  Both teams lost All Americans, I suspect folks are just a little more used to seeing Hope near the top of the rankings and therefore give them the benefit of the doubt at preseason.

That's really an apple to oranges comparison IMHO

Trine lost 4 seniors from last years team (William, Duff, Martin, and Dawson).  4 of their top 6 players who accounted for 56.6% of the points, 41.0% of the rebounds, 49.6% of the assists, and 46.4% of the minutes

Hope lost 1 senior (Buchanan).  She was their top player, but accounted for  19.2% of the points, 15.4% of the rebounds, 12.6% of the assists, and 11.4% of the minutes. 

If I'm being honest about it, Hope brings back so much of its 18-19 squad that I think their ranking in either poll makes sense.  The d3hoops poll has Trine too high in my opinion, maybe WBCA is more realistic, although losing that much, unranked might make sense.

Of course all of this is really just conjecture until we actually see some real games played.

Yes, I agree that Trine should not be ranked preseason.  Just too many unknowns about who our scorers will be this year after losing so much senior leadership from last year's team.  Trine should have been a Final Four team last year, they just got a lousy draw in the tournament.  Went toe to toe with Thomas More for 3 quarters before TM went on one of their runs to win the game.

As for Hope, I actually believe their ranking is a little low.  I think they will be scary good the next 2 years.  Their Junior class is just loaded with talent.  I don't believe they will lose a conference game this year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 06, 2019, 09:19:37 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on November 05, 2019, 06:22:56 PM
Sophomore Gabby Timmer of Calvin named preseason honorable mention All American by D3hoops.com.  The only MIAA woman represented in the All American teams.

Coaches MIAA preseason poll should be coming out soon. 

My preseason predictions: 1) Hope  2) Calvin  3) Trine  4) Albion  5) Saint Marys  6) Alma  7) Adrian  8) Olivet  9) Kalamazoo

Lots of experience returning for most teams except for my Thunder who graduated 4 of their top 6 scorers, including All American Brandi Dawson.  I think Calvin will make the biggest leap in standings this year, even Albion could supplant Trine at 3.  I don't think Trine is going to fall completely off the map though.  Lots of young talent on the team, most got a lot of experience last year as we would usually go 12 deep most games.   

Anyone else want to weigh in on predictions?

I think your prediction is pretty spot on.  Anxious to see what the coaches think
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on November 06, 2019, 07:04:51 PM
Women's BB MIAA preseason poll should be coming out tomorrow (Thursday) at 10am.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on November 07, 2019, 04:39:12 PM
Preseason Poll is out for WBB:

https://www.miaa.org/sports/wbkb/2019-20/releases/PreseasonPoll

Not a lot of surprises.  I did think that the Thunder would slide down a little, 2nd is surprising to me.  And I thought Calvin would have been higher, but they are still pretty young, might be another year away. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on November 09, 2019, 04:49:35 PM
Congratulation coach Christner.  That's one!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 16, 2019, 06:50:47 PM
After 4 games, not quite sure what to make of the Flying Dutch.  They've gone 4-0 and have been destroying opponents by an average score of 84-38.  But they haven't played an elite team even though some of the teams they've throttled are typically solid.  They look so good sometimes and others kind of sloppy, turnovers today were a problem area for example.  On the other hand, that may be because they are going deep into the bench early - no one playing more than 18 mins/game and everyone getting at least 7 mins/game - so maybe a little hard to establish continuity.  One thing that may be the difference maker for this team is defense; allowing only 38 ppg and holding opponents to 26% shooting from the field and 17% from 3 even with everyone getting lots of minutes, that's pretty impressive.  I'm very optimistic but need to see them play a top tier team before I get too carried away :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on November 16, 2019, 08:39:38 PM
I heard that one Hope player is out for the year.  Who is that?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Enginerd on November 17, 2019, 09:42:12 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on November 16, 2019, 06:50:47 PM
After 4 games, not quite sure what to make of the Flying Dutch.  They've gone 4-0 and have been destroying opponents by an average score of 84-38.  But they haven't played an elite team even though some of the teams they've throttled are typically solid.  They look so good sometimes and others kind of sloppy, turnovers today were a problem area for example.  On the other hand, that may be because they are going deep into the bench early - no one playing more than 18 mins/game and everyone getting at least 7 mins/game - so maybe a little hard to establish continuity.  One thing that may be the difference maker for this team is defense; allowing only 38 ppg and holding opponents to 26% shooting from the field and 17% from 3 even with everyone getting lots of minutes, that's pretty impressive.  I'm very optimistic but need to see them play a top tier team before I get too carried away :)

When you have 8-10 Division II and Division I-caliber players on your roster, you will destroy most Division III opponents. I've been waiting a couple years for this Hope team to emerge. They will have 2-3 close games in the MIAA this year (likely on the road at Calvin, Albion, or Trine, or all three), but I wouldn't be surprised to see them run the table. If I were a Hope fan, I'd be concerned about them not being tested enough prior to the NCAA Tournament. Hope is usually ridiculously talented, but this team is something else, and has been since the junior class arrived. Barring an NCAA Tournament stumble, they should reach a couple Final Fours, and might even win one in the next couple seasons.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on November 17, 2019, 09:54:37 AM
Trine WBB splits 1st weekend of play, beating Marietta and losing to Ohio Wesleyan.

Wasn't able to make the Marietta game but attended the OWU game.  This team will be a work in progress to find it's identity.  The last few years if we struggled in a game we always had Brandi to carry the load down the stretch.  We won't have the luxury anymore, going to have to find ways to win by committee.  We are very young, have 2 upperclassmen in the 10 girl rotation, the rest are sophomores and freshman.  The first half was very ugly for both teams.  Shooting was awful.  OWU played a zone and we struggled to run the offense against it.  We had the height advantage on OWU but all we wanted to do was jack up 3's, which were not falling.  Our defense played decent in the 1st half, which is usually a staple of Trine basketball.  The second half we did a better job of getting the ball inside.  However OWU played almost flawless against us, especially the 4th quarter.  This didn't miss...anything...they were patient and ran the clock down with their sets.  They hit runners, jumpers, 3s, free throws.  Just made it difficult for Trine to gain any momentum at all. 

Coaches will have a lot of teaching to do breaking down the game film.  Lots of areas need to be cleaned up.  Not going to be able to just show up and win.

Also watched the 1st game between Albion and Marietta.  Albion dominated play the 1st half but Marietta fought it's way back in the second and actually took the lead for a time before Albion regained it's footing to win.  Albion is going to cause problems for the MIAA this year.  They are very experienced and have a good combination of inside and outside play.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on November 17, 2019, 10:32:45 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on November 17, 2019, 09:54:37 AM
Trine WBB splits 1st weekend of play, beating Marietta and losing to Ohio Wesleyan.

Wasn't able to make the Marietta game but attended the OWU game.  This team will be a work in progress to find it's identity.  The last few years if we struggled in a game we always had Brandi to carry the load down the stretch.  We won't have the luxury anymore, going to have to find ways to win by committee.  We are very young, have 2 upperclassmen in the 10 girl rotation, the rest are sophomores and freshman.  The first half was very ugly for both teams.  Shooting was awful.  OWU played a zone and we struggled to run the offense against it.  We had the height advantage on OWU but all we wanted to do was jack up 3's, which were not falling.  Our defense played decent in the 1st half, which is usually a staple of Trine basketball.  The second half we did a better job of getting the ball inside.  However OWU played almost flawless against us, especially the 4th quarter.  This didn't miss...anything...they were patient and ran the clock down with their sets.  They hit runners, jumpers, 3s, free throws.  Just made it difficult for Trine to gain any momentum at all. 

Coaches will have a lot of teaching to do breaking down the game film.  Lots of areas need to be cleaned up.  Not going to be able to just show up and win.

Also watched the 1st game between Albion and Marietta.  Albion dominated play the 1st half but Marietta fought it's way back in the second and actually took the lead for a time before Albion regained it's footing to win.  Albion is going to cause problems for the MIAA this year.  They are very experienced and have a good combination of inside and outside play.
Went back to look at the stats, OWU shot 65% from the field in the second half and 93% from the FT line for the game.  That will win you some ball games  ;D.  Another stat that stood out to me was fast break points, we only had 2.  We didn't do a very good job at creating turnovers or getting the rebound and getting out on the break.  That had been a staple of prior Trine teams.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on November 21, 2019, 05:38:57 PM
Final last night, Trine over Oberlin 63-31.

I really couldn't tell if we played any better last night than we did in the loss against OWU as Oberlin isn't a very good shooting team.  Oberlin does have a nice center in Sorrels who swatted away quite a few shots inside.  One interesting thing Coach Rang did tonight is do wholesale changes with subs...5 in, 5 out.  The starters to me were outplayed by our second 5 tonight.  The difference being the second 5 had better ball movement on offense and they had girls not afraid to dribble drive to the hoop.  The other thing that was better with our second 5 is they play with much more defensive intensity.  Coach wasn't happy with how the first 5 were playing and substituted in the second 5 a little over 2 minutes into the game.  Bieniewicz went out in the second half with what appeared to be a neck injury when an Oberlin girl fell on top of her.  Little used Sophia Kreag replaced her and promptly nailed 3 3pointers in a row.  That was a nice spark as our outside shooting hasn't been good so far this year, but was better tonight.  Taylor struggled inside with Sorrels athleticism and just couldn't buy a bucket.

Trine now goes on the road for 5 games beginning with 2 games in Chicago this weekend, and won't return to MTI Center until just before Christmas.  They still have a lot of things to work on to get better.  To me so far this season there is a pretty significant gap between Hope and the rest of the league.  Albion though has the experience and athleticism to maybe cause some havoc and be right there with Hope.  They just don't have the depth that Hope does.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on November 23, 2019, 11:33:49 AM
Trine loses to Univ of Chicago in OT last night 79-70.

Encouraging that we played pretty well for 3+ quarters against a pretty good Chicago squad, just couldn't finish the deal.  Unfortunate that Katy missed some FTs down the stretch that would have sealed it.  The girls just ran out of gas in OT, too many turnovers and couldn't buy a bucket.  Starter Tara Bieniewicz didn't play as she was injured in the last game.

Quick turnaround today against another quality team in Kenyon.  Will be interesting to see how mentally tough this young squad is after the heartbreaking loss last night.

In other news Hope continues to destroy teams and Albion is playing very well.  As I mentioned before they have the experience in Hinton, Wischmeyer and Bernas but frosh guard Welker is very talented and making them more balanced between inside and perimeter play. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 23, 2019, 03:58:02 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on November 23, 2019, 11:33:49 AM
Trine loses to Univ of Chicago in OT last night 79-70.

Encouraging that we played pretty well for 3+ quarters against a pretty good Chicago squad, just couldn't finish the deal.  Unfortunate that Katy missed some FTs down the stretch that would have sealed it.  The girls just ran out of gas in OT, too many turnovers and couldn't buy a bucket.  Starter Tara Bieniewicz didn't play as she was injured in the last game.

Quick turnaround today against another quality team in Kenyon.  Will be interesting to see how mentally tough this young squad is after the heartbreaking loss last night.

In other news Hope continues to destroy teams and Albion is playing very well.  As I mentioned before they have the experience in Hinton, Wischmeyer and Bernas but frosh guard Welker is very talented and making them more balanced between inside and perimeter play. 

No such thing as a good loss but Chicago is always very tough, looks like Trine has a very solid team.  No doubt they'll improve too as they continue to adjust to not having Dawson as the go-to player at clutch time.

Hope definitely looking good, but the teams they've played have a combined 4-12 record.  On the other hand, Hope has gone deep on the bench early in every game.  Game today vs. Mt. Union should be a better barometer.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 23, 2019, 08:36:33 PM
Hope 82
Mount Union 48

Hope continues to dominate
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on November 27, 2019, 01:07:56 PM
Through last night's games, Flying Dutch racking up some impressive team stats:

14.29 turnover margin, #1 NCAA D3
43.9 ppg scoring margin, #1
40.6 ppg scoring defense, #3 (#1 and #2 have played only 3 games v. 7 for the Dutch)
1.27 assist/turnover ratio, #6

Top 20 nationally in several other team statistical categories.  Rebound margin is 10.3, #40.  Given their size I would have thought the'd be ranked higher here.  But generally they appear to be playing great defense, scoring at a torrid pace, and taking care of the ball.  That'll win you a few games :)

Not surprisingly, no one shows in the top 50 for any individual statistical category.   Playing team ball and distributing the minutes among a lot of players, as they should be with their scoring margin
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on December 07, 2019, 07:21:22 PM
Hope over Calvin 64-38 at Calvin, where the Dutch have often had trouble.  The Dutch jumped out to a 9-0 lead just a few minutes into the game, then 16-4 near the end of the 1st quarter.  From there on, didn't light it up offensively but just kept gradually widening the lead throughout the rest of the game.  The defense was fantastic again including holding a very good Gabby Timmer to 6 points on 3-11 shooting.  12 to the good on turnover margin and +15 rebound margin.  Calvin doesn't quite have the size and talent of the past but they played with passion throughout.

This Hope defense is making me a believer, I'm thinking with Amherst and St. Thomas losing that the Dutch might deserve some #1 vote consideration.  They are playing with exceptional ball pressure around the perimeter and have 6'2" and 6'3" rim defenders underneath.  Offense can come and go, as some very good Dutch teams have experienced in the Tournament in recent years, but this defense may be a difference maker.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 07, 2019, 08:28:08 PM
I completely agree on the defense being really really good for Hope. Not often you see a team shoot 34% from the floor and win by 26. Even the Calvin guys on the video stream said it might be one of the best defensive teams Hope has had in some time. And it's a team that starts all juniors and the next 5 off the bench are also underclassmen.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on December 10, 2019, 10:00:53 AM
Massey probabilities give Hope a 42.67% chance of running the tables.

Massey % Chance of Winning, count of remaining 16 games:
100% −−  6
99% −−  3
98% −−  1
97% −−  1
96% −−  1
94% −−  1 (Albion)
87% −−  1 (@Albion)
83% −−  1 (Trine)
71% −−  1 (@Trine)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on December 10, 2019, 10:04:16 AM
Probability other undefeated teams run the table:
Tufts − 9.00% chance
Bowdoin − 14.46% chance
Bethel − 2.00%
Scranton − 9.22%
Williams − 0.06%
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on December 10, 2019, 01:31:17 PM
That's cool. I didn't know Massey did that.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on December 10, 2019, 02:03:27 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on December 10, 2019, 10:00:53 AM
Massey probabilities give Hope a 42.67% chance of running the tables.

Massey % Chance of Winning, count of remaining 16 games:
100% −−  6
99% −−  3
98% −−  1
97% −−  1
96% −−  1
94% −−  1 (Albion)
87% −−  1 (@Albion)
83% −−  1 (Trine)
71% −−  1 (@Trine)

Now you did it, you went and jinxed us :)

Seriously, I assume this calculation is based on Massey's predicted probability for winning each game, then multiplying all the individual game probabilities to get the season probability?

Massey predictions theoretically get better as the season progresses and more data is available for their models.  Would be interesting to see how these predictions change as more games are played.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on December 10, 2019, 03:39:19 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on December 10, 2019, 02:03:27 PM
I assume this calculation is based on Massey's predicted probability for winning each game, then multiplying all the individual game probabilities to get the season probability?

exactly!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on December 10, 2019, 03:41:00 PM
It's just bonkers really.   0.948 ^ 16 = 0.4255555.  So Massey gives Hope an average chance of 94.8% of winning each of their remaining 16 games.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 10, 2019, 04:00:10 PM
I think Saturday will be a good test for the team.  Albion hasn't lost yet either, and this is finals week at Hope (potential for a bit of distraction).  I actually think Albion may be the 2nd best team in the MIAA this year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 12, 2019, 05:47:50 PM
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Topics will include the latest news of two Capital Athletic Conference members announcing they are leaving for other conference homes. What is next for the CAC which will be down to just three members by 2021-22 season. The rumors about St. Thomas's future continue to swirl, we at least try and put some of those rumors to rest. And a MIAC president finally speaks out about the decision to push UST out the door. Maybe he should have not said anything.

Plus, there is a new number one team in women's basketball, a team that nearly completed an undefeated season has reemerged, another former champion is showing they may be back in the hunt, and a program we haven't talked about in a long time has made it known they are ready for the season.

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Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on December 14, 2019, 04:46:56 PM
Wow! Great game! Go Hope!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 16, 2019, 08:14:40 AM
Impressive 2nd half by the Britons on Saturday.  They nearly pulled off the upset .  That showing should (in my opinion) propel them in to the top 25.  They certainly appear to be worthy of that.

Hope's 2nd half was pretty poor - the only quarters they have not won all year I believe.  Offense really struggled and turned into a bunch of chucked up 3s.  Felt like the big lead they built going into half time caused them to let their guard down, but kudos on the final play drawn up by assistant Coach Kust, and executed to perfection!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on December 16, 2019, 01:16:14 PM
Assumption: Massey SOS is calculated well (for some definition of "well")

If that assumption is true, it looks like D3 voters put more stock in wins and losses, and relatively less stock in the quality of those wins and losses. You see this in college football rankings as well--most undefeated teams are ranked above most teams with 1 loss, and so on and so on.

There are 22 teams whose Massey ranking is at least 30% worse than their D3Hoops.com ranking. Of those 22 teams, their average SOS is 94.71.

There are 14 teams whose Masset ranking is at least 30% better than their D3Hoops.com ranking. Of those 14 teams, their average SOS is 56.71.


Scranton - Massey rating 350% lower than D3Hoops.com
Guilford - 300%
Transylvania - 256%
Amherst - 240%
Trinity TX - 153%
Mary Washington - 150%
DeSales - 136%
UW-Platteville - 135%
Emmanuel - 123%
Mary Hardin-Baylor - 116%
George Fox - 110%
Tufts - 100%
Wheaton IL - 68%
Marymount - 63%
East Texas Baptist - 61%
Widener - 54%
Gettysburg - 53%
Ohio Northern - 42%
Brandeis - 40%
Messiah - 35%
UW-LaCrosse - 33%
Catholic - 31%

Bethel - Massey rating 87% higher than D3Hoops.com
Gustavus Adolphus - 76%
Hope - 75%
Williams - 69%
Baldwin Wallace - 44%
Washington U - 39%
UW-Oshkosh - 38%
Loras - 37%
Augsburg - 33%
Wartburg - 28%
St. Thomas - 22%
Smith - 22%
UW-Whitewater - 21%
Whitman - 20%

Highest ranked Massey teams that received no D3Hoops.com voters
Trine, 24 in Massey
Emory, 28
SUNY New Paltz, 29
Otterbein, 32
John Carroll, 36
North Park, 39

These 4 teams are both ranked at least 100% lower in Massey than in D3Hoops.com, AND have a Massey SOS > 100:
Scranton, D3Hoops.com # 2
Transylvania, #16
Mary Washington. #28
Guilford, #42

These 4 teams are both ranked at least 30% higher in Massey than in D3Hoops.com, AND have a Massey SOS < 50:
Augsburg, #21
Loras, #24
Gustavus Adolphus, #25
UW-Oshkosh, #44

Scranton vs. George Fox on a neutral floor 12/28 will tell us a lot. Also vs. St. Vincent two days later.

Transylvania doesn't have many tough opponents left at all. Maybe 12/19 @ UC Santa Cruz?

Mary Washington has a decently tough 4 game stretch coming up.... @ Peace, vs. Kean, @ Catholic, vs. King's Pa

Guilford will definitely get tested in conference play.



Augsburg will get plenty of chances to prove they should be ranked higher than they are: @ St. Benedict, vs. Bethel, @ Gustavus Adolphus
Loras vs. North Park and @ Wartburg
Gustavus Adolphus, Bethel, St. Thomas, Augsburg--will reveal who should be ranked high
Same with Oshkosh--LaCross, Platteville, Stout, Whitewater--all strong


Scranton has a 9.9% chance of winning out. May be tough to know what they really are.

While Transylvania only has a 5.7% chance of winning out, I bet those odds are higher than most teams.
They could totally put up a 22 − 3 record and be a tough team to rank low, even if their SOS is not good.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on December 17, 2019, 09:27:33 AM
Mary Washington and Guilford fall out of the latest poll.

Augsburg, Loras, Gustavus Adolphus all move up.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 17, 2019, 10:14:39 AM
Albion doubles +1 their votes (16 to 33) and moves up in the ORV category from 34th to 28th.  Hope solidly sitting in 4th (3 votes behind 3rd place Bowdoin).  The Dutch are also recieving 4 first place votes. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on December 18, 2019, 11:24:20 AM
Interesting game this afternoon at 5pm between unbeatens Hope and North Park.  On paper Hope would seem to be a solid favorite but I'm feeling this could be a great game.  NPU seems to be playing very well recently, especially the big win at Wheaton, while Hope seems to be playing a little below its earlier form.  The Dutch almost lost after leading big vs. Albion and last night they gave up a season high 51 points vs. Finlandia.   On the other hand Albion has a very good veteran team, and Hope still won by 30 while really spreading out the minutes vs Finlandia.  So I'll predict Hope in a relatively tight game, upset not out of the realm of possibility.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on December 19, 2019, 09:48:01 PM
Right now, Coach Morehouse has a career record of 594-90. Barring a lose, he will get his 600th career win on January 25th (Saturday) at Olivet. If he gets win 600 at Olivet, he will set the all-division record for both men and women for fewest games to 600 wins, one game quicker than Mark Campbell of D2 Union University of Tennessee. Coach Campbell is the only coach in NCAA history to record 600 wins in fewer than 700 games.... thus far.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 19, 2019, 11:03:54 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on December 19, 2019, 09:48:01 PM
Right now, Coach Morehouse has a career record of 594-90. Barring a lose, he will get his 600th career win on January 25th (Saturday) at Olivet. If he gets win 600 at Olivet, he will set the all-division record for both men and women for fewest games to 600 wins, one game quicker than Mark Campbell of D2 Union University of Tennessee. Coach Campbell is the only coach in NCAA history to record 600 wins in fewer than 700 games.... thus far.

Thats a gem.  Wow.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 20, 2019, 01:18:45 AM
Quote from: Dutchfan on December 19, 2019, 09:48:01 PM
Right now, Coach Morehouse has a career record of 594-90. Barring a lose, he will get his 600th career win on January 25th (Saturday) at Olivet. If he gets win 600 at Olivet, he will set the all-division record for both men and women for fewest games to 600 wins, one game quicker than Mark Campbell of D2 Union University of Tennessee. Coach Campbell is the only coach in NCAA history to record 600 wins in fewer than 700 games.... thus far.

Just to put that into perspective, Matt Logie, who just left Whitworth for D2 - Point Loma, has the highest winning percentage in the history of NCAA men's basketball.  He's currently sitting at 202-37.  That's within striking distance of 600 in 700, but he'd have to improve on an already historic level of success for another 20+ years.

Of course, Amherst's GP Gromacki is going to fly right by this record.  He only needs to go 84-23 and it's hard to believe Amherst won't be better than that in the next few years.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on December 20, 2019, 05:21:07 AM
Quote from: Dutchfan on December 19, 2019, 09:48:01 PM
Right now, Coach Morehouse has a career record of 594-90. Barring a lose, he will get his 600th career win on January 25th (Saturday) at Olivet. If he gets win 600 at Olivet, he will set the all-division record for both men and women for fewest games to 600 wins, one game quicker than Mark Campbell of D2 Union University of Tennessee. Coach Campbell is the only coach in NCAA history to record 600 wins in fewer than 700 games.... thus far.

The best thing about this is that Coach Mo is just an incredibly great guy, truly cares about his players' well being, he's charitable and a gentleman.  Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on January 01, 2020, 04:55:45 PM
Big game right off the bat as we resume league play in 2020.  12-0 Hope at 8-3 Trine on Saturday at 3pm.  Hope currently stands as the #1 team in the nation according to Massey and Trine comes in as #23.  Hope had a real test against Albion, other than that they have run roughshod thru the 2019 portion of their schedule.  Trine with losses to Ohio Wesleyan, #12 Baldwin Wallace and #23 Chicago.  They have 2 recent wins over good Ohio Northern and Denison squads and are starting to figure things out with new lineups and substitute patterns.

Both Hope and Trine play a deep bench as both only have 1 double digit scorer.  Hope with an outstanding and deep Junior class, whereas Trine has 3 Soph's leading in scoring.  The big question at the beginning of the year was how far would Trine regress this year after an outstanding Senior class graduated that led Trine to 3 consecutive NCAA tournaments.  This team does not have a "go to" player like Dawson who could single handily take over games if needed over her career.  We have one Senior, two Juniors, and the rest Soph's and Freshman in the top 11 rotation.

You know Hope is going to pressure the ball and get scores off their defense.  You don't see many D3 teams with their length inside either.  Our bigs Taylor and Herbert will need to play well and stay out of foul trouble.  If were shooting the 3ball decently we'll have a shot to be there at the end, but I am going with Hope by 10+ in this one as they have more experience and playmakers than Trine.   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 01, 2020, 05:21:50 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on January 01, 2020, 04:55:45 PM
Big game right off the bat as we resume league play in 2020.  12-0 Hope at 8-3 Trine on Saturday at 3pm.  Hope currently stands as the #1 team in the nation according to Massey and Trine comes in as #23.  Hope had a real test against Albion, other than that they have run roughshod thru the 2019 portion of their schedule.  Trine with losses to Ohio Wesleyan, #12 Baldwin Wallace and #23 Chicago.  They have 2 recent wins over good Ohio Northern and Denison squads and are starting to figure things out with new lineups and substitute patterns.

Both Hope and Trine play a deep bench as both only have 1 double digit scorer.  Hope with an outstanding and deep Junior class, whereas Trine has 3 Soph's leading in scoring.  The big question at the beginning of the year was how far would Trine regress this year after an outstanding Senior class graduated that led Trine to 3 consecutive NCAA tournaments.  This team does not have a "go to" player like Dawson who could single handily take over games if needed over her career.  We have one Senior, two Juniors, and the rest Soph's and Freshman in the top 11 rotation.

You know Hope is going to pressure the ball and get scores off their defense.  You don't see many D3 teams with their length inside either.  Our bigs Taylor and Herbert will need to play well and stay out of foul trouble.  If were shooting the 3ball decently we'll have a shot to be there at the end, but I am going with Hope by 10+ in this one as they have more experience and playmakers than Trine.   

Good analysis, both teams fundamentally sound with an emphasis on defense.  This one is at Trine and I've always worried in the past about Hope's occasional lousy shooting game when playing away.   The defense is even a little better this year so that may keep them in any games when the shooting touch is missing.   I think it will be relatively low scoring so its hard for me to see either team winning by 10+.  Massey has it at 61-53 Hope, I think that sounds about right.

I still think Albion will pick up a win or two vs. Hope and Trine this year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 04, 2020, 05:34:24 PM
Great defensive battle in Angola today, with the Thunder holding a 49-44 lead with around 4 minutes left in the game. Coach Mo called a timeout and must have provided some excellent coaching. Flying Dutch dominated the rest of the game with excellent D and some good O as well, closing the game on a 14-2 run to win 58-51. Great start to the new year for Hope.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 04, 2020, 05:53:08 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on January 04, 2020, 05:34:24 PM
Great defensive battle in Angola today, with the Thunder holding a 49-44 lead with around 4 minutes left in the game. Coach Mo called a timeout and must have provided some excellent coaching. Flying Dutch dominated the rest of the game with excellent D and some good O as well, closing the game on a 14-2 run to win 58-51. Great start to the new year for Hope.

Sad that I was unable to watch today, sounds like the kind of Trine-Hope game we have come to expect in the last couple of years.  Usually my predictions are wrong but this one played out as I thought.  Massey nailed it too, their prediction was 61-53 compared to the 58-51 final.

Looking at the box score, seems like Steers and Bieniewicz had great games and carried the load for Trine.  Bigs Thomas and Voskuil looked very strong for Hope, but the Dutch had more depth and balanced minutes.  I wonder if that had something to do with Hope's run to finish the game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on January 04, 2020, 06:15:45 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 04, 2020, 05:53:08 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on January 04, 2020, 05:34:24 PM
Great defensive battle in Angola today, with the Thunder holding a 49-44 lead with around 4 minutes left in the game. Coach Mo called a timeout and must have provided some excellent coaching. Flying Dutch dominated the rest of the game with excellent D and some good O as well, closing the game on a 14-2 run to win 58-51. Great start to the new year for Hope.

Sad that I was unable to watch today, sounds like the kind of Trine-Hope game we have come to expect in the last couple of years.  Usually my predictions are wrong but this one played out as I thought.  Massey nailed it too, their prediction was 61-53 compared to the 58-51 final.

Looking at the box score, seems like Steers and Bieniewicz had great games and carried the load for Trine.  Bigs Thomas and Voskuil looked very strong for Hope, but the Dutch had more depth and balanced minutes.  I wonder if that had something to do with Hope's run to finish the game.

Hope ends the game with a 14-2 run to beat Trine 58-51.  We gave Hope a good scare for 3 and half quarters but we struggled to hit shots down the stretch.  It was a hard fought game by both teams.  Each team knows each others offensive sets so well it was tough sledding to get good looks.  I thought both defenses were outstanding.  Hope with a better job at hitting shots when they did get an open look.  Going in I though Taylor and Herbert had to hold their own against Voskuil and Thomas...and they didn't.  The versatility of both of Hope's bigs makes them tough matchups as both can get shots inside and then if you leave them open beyond the arc they have the ability to hit too.  Steers carried us in the 1st half, it was the best I've seen her play offensively.  She's our only senior and she played like it.  Second half was a game of mini runs.  Trine started the 4th quarter on a 7-0 run, but Coach Morehouse called a much needed timeout to settle down his squad, and they got the job done the rest of the game.

I was encouraged by Trine's play overall as well lost a great deal of leadership and talent from last year.  Hope with just a better job of finishing the game.  There are going to be some good ole' knock down drag out games between Hope and Trine in the next few years that's for sure.       
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on January 04, 2020, 10:12:55 PM
My impression from the season to this point is that, while Hope's offense sometimes lacks a focus this year, it's defense is amazing--a well coordinated machine and a pleasure to watch.

Although the victory-from-the-jaws-of-defeat games against Albion and Trine constrain my post-season expectations, this team could end the league season undefeated or with but one loss.

Olivia Voskuil seems to be playing with increased confidence this year, as she supplements her defense and rebounding with drives to the basket.

And what a day for Ashleigh Thomas, with 8 rebounds, 3 assists, no turnovers, and near-perfect 3-point shooting and free throws as part of her 14 points. Without her career day, Trine would be alone in first place tonight.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 13, 2020, 04:53:36 PM
Will be interested to see the top of the poll this week.  Tough losses for Wartburg and Scranton.  Tufts of course will remain solidly number 1.  Voters seem a little conflicted over Bowdoin and Hope; last week Bowdoin had no number 1 votes and Hope had 5, yet Bowdoin was ranked higher.  That suggests to me that Hope had a broader spread among the voters.  When I look at the respective schedules year to date, I would actually expect Bowdoin to be more of an unknown than Hope (talking this year only).  It appears that Hope has several wins over high quality opponents while Bowdoin's best win to date appears to be over 7-7 Chapman.  In fact, Massey has Hope with 7 wins over teams they rank higher than Chapman, and Massey has Hope SoS at 30 vs. Bowdoin at 91.  Fun to talk about the Massey stats, but I tend to put more stock in the D3 hoops pollsters that actually watch games.  No matter, someone is going to have to beat Tufts eventually for any of this to matter :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 13, 2020, 11:27:43 PM
When a team behind another has five first place votes and the other does ... it absolutely means voters are far more spread out with how they are voting for the team below. Not just a suggestion for you. :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on January 16, 2020, 09:53:00 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 13, 2020, 04:53:36 PM
Fun to talk about the Massey stats, but I tend to put more stock in the D3 hoops pollsters that actually watch games. 

Do we know how many games pollsters watch? Seems to me that unless all pollsters are watching a majority of games by teams that are deserving of consideration, that something like Massey would hold more weight.  (this is ignoring any personnel changes, which I imagine Massey cannot and does not account for).     In the NFL, Football Outsiders DVOA "tries to" account for when a team's starting QB is injured; they have some adjustment. But such ad hoc adjustments are always hard to incorporate into an algorithm.

Massey SOS:
Tufts: 84
Bowdoin: 129
Hope: 26

given the relative lack of parity in WBB compared to MBB, I have to imagine that those differences in SOS are quite massive. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 16, 2020, 02:36:18 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on January 16, 2020, 09:53:00 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 13, 2020, 04:53:36 PM
Fun to talk about the Massey stats, but I tend to put more stock in the D3 hoops pollsters that actually watch games. 

Do we know how many games pollsters watch? Seems to me that unless all pollsters are watching a majority of games by teams that are deserving of consideration, that something like Massey would hold more weight.  (this is ignoring any personnel changes, which I imagine Massey cannot and does not account for).     In the NFL, Football Outsiders DVOA "tries to" account for when a team's starting QB is injured; they have some adjustment. But such ad hoc adjustments are always hard to incorporate into an algorithm.

Massey SOS:
Tufts: 84
Bowdoin: 129
Hope: 26

given the relative lack of parity in WBB compared to MBB, I have to imagine that those differences in SOS are quite massive. 

No disagreement here.  I do like to consider Massey together with the D3Hoops and WBCA polls, I think they all bring a different perspective.  Massey is not too useful until a good chunk of the season has gone by, when the data relies more on the current season.  The purely statistical approach eliminates fan bias even if it may have other flaws.  Some don't seem to get that it doesn't provide "predictions", just summaries of probabilities.  Subtle but important distinction.  If I say one team in a matchup is going to win and it doesn't, I was wrong.  If Massey said the same team had a 70% probability to win and it loses, Massey was still right (or at least it wasn't wrong).  But I think we agree that the SoS data is most interesting and useful and it doesn't introduce a regional factor.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on January 16, 2020, 03:13:15 PM
it is quite interesting how each "data source" both provides different information, and has different applications:

what follows is a gross oversimplification

D3Hoops.com poll - human sentiment on the best teams, no bearing on NCAA tournament seeding, selections
Massey - computer sentiment on the best teams, also no bearing on NCAA stuff
NCAA Regional Rankings - best teams according to NCAA formulas, very direct bearing on NCAA selections and seeding

So while I like to pontificate on Massey's usefullness (especially when MY alma mater is #1 :-) ), much/most of the inputs into Massey ratings/rankings, have zero input on the actual NCAA tournament.


I think in general I don't like how polls have such inherent biases in them.
--preseason rankings carry such "default weight" on ALL future rankings
--pollsters assume a team that lost should move down (you see this in college football rankings too)
--pollsters "mostly" assume teams with fewer losses are better, when a 5 point loss on the road against team #20 is probably "better" than a 20 point win at home against team #120.


that said, I would skew probably too far in the opposite direction, and rely solely on the computers!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 16, 2020, 04:26:20 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on January 16, 2020, 03:13:15 PM
it is quite interesting how each "data source" both provides different information, and has different applications:

what follows is a gross oversimplification

D3Hoops.com poll - human sentiment on the best teams, no bearing on NCAA tournament seeding, selections
Massey - computer sentiment on the best teams, also no bearing on NCAA stuff
NCAA Regional Rankings - best teams according to NCAA formulas, very direct bearing on NCAA selections and seeding

So while I like to pontificate on Massey's usefullness (especially when MY alma mater is #1 :-) ), much/most of the inputs into Massey ratings/rankings, have zero input on the actual NCAA tournament.


I think in general I don't like how polls have such inherent biases in them.
--preseason rankings carry such "default weight" on ALL future rankings
--pollsters assume a team that lost should move down (you see this in college football rankings too)
--pollsters "mostly" assume teams with fewer losses are better, when a 5 point loss on the road against team #20 is probably "better" than a 20 point win at home against team #120.


that said, I would skew probably too far in the opposite direction, and rely solely on the computers!

I know a lot of voters in DIII ... and those three items aren't necessarily their considerations. I can understand that some do and people have that interpretation, but we talk all the time on Hoopsville about how all three play an impact for a point - but not across the board and no longer to a strong degree.

Though, I think the last part about a 5-point win on the road v #20 and a 20-point win at home v #120 is a valid thing to consider.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Jester1390 on January 16, 2020, 04:41:45 PM
I don't know about the top 20.    But rose is to top 10 of the bottom 100
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on January 16, 2020, 07:40:47 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 16, 2020, 04:26:20 PM
I know a lot of voters in DIII ... and those three items aren't necessarily their considerations.

And I don't know any myself! Definitely not saying I know for sure those items are things that voters consider, either consciously or unconsciously.
I do think that every poll is influenced by the one that came before it. Ideally, every voter has a set of criteria they value, and re-evaluate how each team does against that criteria each week, forgetting how the teams ended up being ranked by said criteria last week. (and again, I don't know that that ISN'T the way it's done :-) ).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 20, 2020, 04:44:05 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on December 19, 2019, 09:48:01 PM
Right now, Coach Morehouse has a career record of 594-90. Barring a lose, he will get his 600th career win on January 25th (Saturday) at Olivet. If he gets win 600 at Olivet, he will set the all-division record for both men and women for fewest games to 600 wins, one game quicker than Mark Campbell of D2 Union University of Tennessee. Coach Campbell is the only coach in NCAA history to record 600 wins in fewer than 700 games.... thus far.

Following Wednesday's home game at Devos vs. Alma, where the Dutch are heavy favorites, it does look likely that Coach Morehouse will be going for win #600 Saturday at Olivet.  Another twist is that Olivet's coach is Brittany (Berry) Zandstra, who starred for Coach Mo from 2012-2015.  Coach Zandstra was two time all-MIAA and holds several Hope records including career 3 pt FGs made and career 3 pt FG% as well as leading all of the NCAA in 3 pt FG% one year.  Flying Dutch fans will remember the roars when "Berry" would light up a game with a barrage of threes from way downtown or no-look passes leading to easy layups.

Achieving 600 wins at a record pace couldn't happen to a nicer guy and it will be somewhat bittersweet that it is likely to happen against a favorite former star player.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 22, 2020, 12:03:00 PM
Brittany Z made a significant announcement on twitter this morning
https://twitter.com/Bkb1243

I'm not positive but I think she's still on leave from her surgery
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 22, 2020, 01:26:10 PM
Quote from: sac on January 22, 2020, 12:03:00 PM
Brittany Z made a significant announcement on twitter this morning
https://twitter.com/Bkb1243

I'm not positive but I think she's still on leave from her surgery

That's an incredible story!  A tweet lower down seems to indicate she is or will soon be back on the sidelines.  Glad to see everyone is healthy and safe!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 22, 2020, 01:26:37 PM
Quote from: sac on January 22, 2020, 12:03:00 PM
Brittany Z made a significant announcement on twitter this morning
https://twitter.com/Bkb1243

I'm not positive but I think she's still on leave from her surgery

Wow, wasn't aware of that.  Prayers are with her, reminds us that basketball is just a diversion from what's really important.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 23, 2020, 10:18:40 AM
Strong 71-33 win for Hope over Alma last night, it was 41-9 at the half despite going deep into the bench early.  Yikes!  All 16 on the roster played between 9-17 minutes.  Alma is no powerhouse but they have some tight losses against some very good teams along with a win over Wisconsin Lutheran. 

This sets up Saturday's game at Olivet where Coach Morehouse will go for win #600 in record fashion.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on January 23, 2020, 10:43:35 PM
Quoteit is quite interesting how each "data source" both provides different information, and has different applications:

what follows is a gross oversimplification

D3Hoops.com poll - human sentiment on the best teams, no bearing on NCAA tournament seeding, selections
Massey - computer sentiment on the best teams, also no bearing on NCAA stuff
NCAA Regional Rankings - best teams according to NCAA formulas, very direct bearing on NCAA selections and seeding

So while I like to pontificate on Massey's usefullness (especially when MY alma mater is #1 :-) ), much/most of the inputs into Massey ratings/rankings, have zero input on the actual NCAA tournament.


I think in general I don't like how polls have such inherent biases in them.
--preseason rankings carry such "default weight" on ALL future rankings
--pollsters assume a team that lost should move down (you see this in college football rankings too)
--pollsters "mostly" assume teams with fewer losses are better, when a 5 point loss on the road against team #20 is probably "better" than a 20 point win at home against team #120.


that said, I would skew probably too far in the opposite direction, and rely solely on the computers!

I hope our voters make decisions on more than sentiment, but I get the gist of what you're saying and understand why someone would value computer rankings over polls. I think it's fun to look at both and appreciate the work you've done on the former.

Your point about neither the poll or the computer rankings influencing NCAA tournament selections or seeding can't be repeated enough. Years ago, when No. 1 Hope went to No. 2 Howard Payne to play in the Elite 8, I was baffled how the top two teams, both of whom were undefeated, played each other in the Round of 8. Someone on the NCAA committee at the time told me later that they had Hope as the eighth best team in the field, despite our ranking, so the match-up made sense.

Trine fans can look at last year's second round matchup with Thomas More and sympathize.

There's a lot of variety on how different voters approach their ballot and I won't pretend to know how they all do it. I'm thankful for their time and think they generally do a really good job, especially when you look at how the aggregate result across all voters compares to NCAA tournament performance.

As discussed on another board, I agree that the preseason poll can weigh too heavily on where teams are ranked, even now, especially on the women's side where teams from certain conferences can start highly ranked, win nearly all of their games and float even higher to the top. And, no, I'm on talking about Hope. :)

I think our pollsters generally do a pretty good job discerning between a good loss and a bad one. We can undoubtedly find examples in either direction, but look at how Amherst was affected by losing to Tufts. They only dropped from #4 to #5. Certainly could have stayed No. 4 and I suspect they didn't drop on a lot of ballots.  Similarly I was concerned that Albright would plunge deep into "Also Receiving Votes" when they lost to Messiah on the road. Instead they dropped from No. 24 to just outside the poll. Personally it's not unusual for me to move a ranked team up after a close loss to a team with a much higher ranking.

I think our pollsters also do a nice job not overvaluing winning percentage over quality of results. We have a bunch of teams in our rankings with multiple losses because most of those losses come to really good teams and are coupled with good wins. Three- and four-loss teams (George Fox, UW Lax) sit in front of one-loss teams like Gettysburg, Misericordia or Cortland. Teams like Texas-Dallas or Illinois Wesleyan who could be written off entirely are still getting votes.

Two quick side notes:

* Thanks to ScottieDawg for livening up these boards with thoughtful, interesting and respectful analysis. I've missed this type of banter as message board activity has trailed off over time and have enjoyed the last couple days. Keep it going!

* Saturdays are hectic with all the games, but congratulations to Brian Morehouse on the impending milestone victory. The best part of covering Division III basketball has been getting to meet and know coaches who are great leaders. He's built a program that's the model for consistent excellence -- no one has more Top 25 appearances than Hope -- and is a true gentleman. Hope is extremely fortunate to have him, and I suspect he would say the same thing about Hope.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 24, 2020, 05:25:04 AM
Gordon, I'm glad you enjoy the debate and banter, even when some of us get a little passionate about our favorites!  It's probably not said enough, but we fans are so fortunate to have D3hoops and the team that makes it go.

Thanks also for the kind but well deserved words about Coach Morehouse.  He deserves the accolades for the program he has built and sustained at Hope but that's secondary to being a truly kind and genuine person.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on January 25, 2020, 03:19:49 PM
Any way to get 1st half stats for the year? Hope's early game defense is stupid good. Olivet's offense isn't good, but they've only taken 7 shots and scored 2 points. 1st quarter almost done.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on January 25, 2020, 03:28:33 PM
Hope defense by quarter:
1st = 9.71 points allowed
2nd = 9.18
3rd = 12.65
4th = 10.47

Hope offense by quarter:
1st = 19.53
2nd = 19.00
3rd = 17.41
4th = 19.12

Hope Point Differential by quarter:
1st = +9.82
2nd = +9.82
3rd = +4.76
4th = +8.65

Point differential as percentage of points given up:
1st = +101%
2nd = +107%
3rd = +38%
4th = +83%

After today's game:
Hope outscores opponents:
by 112% in the 1st quarter
100% in the 2nd
44% in the 3rd
86% in the 4th
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 25, 2020, 03:31:57 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on January 25, 2020, 03:19:49 PM
Any way to get 1st half stats for the year? Hope's early game defense is stupid good. Olivet's offense isn't good, but they've only taken 7 shots and scored 2 points. 1st quarter almost done.

Yikes, Hope playing scary good.  Guess they're motivated to get Coach Mo #600.  Currently 35-8 early in the 2nd.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on January 25, 2020, 04:11:20 PM
The fastest Women's basketball coaches to 600 wins across all divisions...

691   Mark Campbell of Union (TN)
706   Nancy Fahey of Washington U in St. Louis/Illinois U.
711   Gary Field of Southern Maine
716   Geno Auriemma of UConn
716   Phillip Kahler of St. John Fisher
734   Pat Summit of Tennessee


Brian Morehouse will head that list as soon as his current game finishes with 600 wins in 690 games.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on January 25, 2020, 04:37:59 PM
Well, it's official! Coach Morehouse is the fastest ever to 600 wins!!!!!

690   Brian Morehouse of Hope
691   Mark Campbell of Union (TN)
706   Nancy Fahey of Washington U in St. Louis/Illinois U.
711   Gary Field of Southern Maine
716   Geno Auriemma of UConn
716   Phillip Kahler of St. John Fisher
734   Pat Summit of Tennessee
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 25, 2020, 04:53:24 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on January 25, 2020, 04:37:59 PM
Well, it's official! Coach Morehouse is the fastest ever to 600 wins!!!!!

690   Brian Morehouse of Hope
691   Mark Campbell of Union (TN)
706   Nancy Fahey of Washington U in St. Louis/Illinois U.
711   Gary Field of Southern Maine
716   Geno Auriemma of UConn
716   Phillip Kahler of St. John Fisher
734   Pat Summit of Tennessee

I believe this makes him the fastest to 600 wins in hoops for any division in both MBB and WBB.  The articles about Campbell's milestone in 2019 said Adolf Rupp was fastest in MBB, taking 704 games.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 25, 2020, 07:09:43 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 25, 2020, 04:53:24 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on January 25, 2020, 04:37:59 PM
Well, it's official! Coach Morehouse is the fastest ever to 600 wins!!!!!

690   Brian Morehouse of Hope
691   Mark Campbell of Union (TN)
706   Nancy Fahey of Washington U in St. Louis/Illinois U.
711   Gary Field of Southern Maine
716   Geno Auriemma of UConn
716   Phillip Kahler of St. John Fisher
734   Pat Summit of Tennessee

I believe this makes him the fastest to 600 wins in hoops for any division in both MBB and WBB.  The articles about Campbell's milestone in 2019 said Adolf Rupp was fastest in MBB, taking 704 games.

Indeed he is the fastest NCAA hoops coach any division, men or women to reach 600. @D3hoops should update their front page story to reflect this. Looking over his record, it took him 250 games to hit 200 wins. That means his most recent 400 wins happened in 440 games, a .909 win rate!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 25, 2020, 09:21:33 PM
Congrats to coach Mo.  Tremendous accomplishment.

600-90
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 27, 2020, 08:54:28 AM
Worried about Hope's game Wednesday.  At Albion, which is always a tough place to play; Albion is undefeated there this year.  Albion is very good, 15-3 record and their only losses are away at teams with a combined record of 46-8.  Hope took command in the first half at the earlier game at Devos, but lost it all and had to make a buzzer beater to beat Albion.  Together with coming off the emotional high of Saturday's game, and this is a midweek game, this has all the makings of a trap game. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on January 27, 2020, 10:43:25 AM
Quote@D3hoops should update their front page story to reflect this.

Done. I didn't look at what happened at the other levels. To be honest, I've never heard of Union (Tenn.).

It'll be interesting to see if G.P. Gromacki at Amherst breaks this record in a couple years. He's 532-69 after Saturday's results.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 27, 2020, 11:20:15 AM
Quote from: gordonmann on January 27, 2020, 10:43:25 AM
Quote@D3hoops should update their front page story to reflect this.

Done. I didn't look at what happened at the other levels. To be honest, I've never heard of Union (Tenn.).

It'll be interesting to see if G.P. Gromacki at Amherst breaks this record in a couple years. He's 532-69 after Saturday's results.



I can't imagine that he wouldn't break that record, assuming he stays at Amherst. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 27, 2020, 01:04:08 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on January 27, 2020, 10:43:25 AM
Quote@D3hoops should update their front page story to reflect this.

Done. I didn't look at what happened at the other levels. To be honest, I've never heard of Union (Tenn.).

It'll be interesting to see if G.P. Gromacki at Amherst breaks this record in a couple years. He's 532-69 after Saturday's results.

Thanks Gordon!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 27, 2020, 02:05:01 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 27, 2020, 11:20:15 AM
Quote from: gordonmann on January 27, 2020, 10:43:25 AM
Quote@D3hoops should update their front page story to reflect this.

Done. I didn't look at what happened at the other levels. To be honest, I've never heard of Union (Tenn.).

It'll be interesting to see if G.P. Gromacki at Amherst breaks this record in a couple years. He's 532-69 after Saturday's results.



I can't imagine that he wouldn't break that record, assuming he stays at Amherst.

He has been on record - several times - saying Amherst is his home. He hasn't even entertained interviewing anywhere else.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 27, 2020, 05:38:52 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 27, 2020, 02:05:01 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 27, 2020, 11:20:15 AM
Quote from: gordonmann on January 27, 2020, 10:43:25 AM
Quote@D3hoops should update their front page story to reflect this.

Done. I didn't look at what happened at the other levels. To be honest, I've never heard of Union (Tenn.).

It'll be interesting to see if G.P. Gromacki at Amherst breaks this record in a couple years. He's 532-69 after Saturday's results.



I can't imagine that he wouldn't break that record, assuming he stays at Amherst.

He has been on record - several times - saying Amherst is his home. He hasn't even entertained interviewing anywhere else.

Dave, I had heard the same but my info was a little dated.  Not surprised he has remained steadfast.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 27, 2020, 11:08:01 PM
He said it on this season's Hoopsville Season Debut when we had him on: https://www.team1sports.com/Hoopsville/?bfplayvid=154565

Topic was an easy one to bring up when a record (I believe) DIII coaches jumped to DI in the off-season.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on January 28, 2020, 06:03:53 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 27, 2020, 08:54:28 AM
Worried about Hope's game Wednesday.  At Albion, which is always a tough place to play; Albion is undefeated there this year.  Albion is very good, 15-3 record and their only losses are away at teams with a combined record of 46-8.  Hope took command in the first half at the earlier game at Devos, but lost it all and had to make a buzzer beater to beat Albion.  Together with coming off the emotional high of Saturday's game, and this is a midweek game, this has all the makings of a trap game.
I wouldn't be too worried Roundball999.  Yes Albion took you guys to the wire at Hope but I think this will motivate the Hope gals to make sure the rematch isn't as close.  Trine also has a big game tomorrow hosting Calvin.  The Knights seem to be playing much better than they did in December when we won convincingly at Van Noord.  We haven't shot the ball well in the last couple weeks and that needs to improve as we head toward the end of the season.  Our defense is consistently good though.  Massey currently has Hope as the number 1 defensive team in the nation and Trine at number 3 (Amherst is number 2).  I believe the top 4 teams will remain the same in the MIAA come playoff time.  Hope the clear-cut 1 seed, Trine and Albion battle for the 2 seed (honestly it doesn't matter as 2 vs 3 will be played at Hope in the MIAA tournament) and I think Calvin will hold off Saint Mary's for the 4th seed.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 29, 2020, 05:33:45 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on January 28, 2020, 06:03:53 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 27, 2020, 08:54:28 AM
Worried about Hope's game Wednesday.  At Albion, which is always a tough place to play; Albion is undefeated there this year.  Albion is very good, 15-3 record and their only losses are away at teams with a combined record of 46-8.  Hope took command in the first half at the earlier game at Devos, but lost it all and had to make a buzzer beater to beat Albion.  Together with coming off the emotional high of Saturday's game, and this is a midweek game, this has all the makings of a trap game.
I wouldn't be too worried Roundball999.  Yes Albion took you guys to the wire at Hope but I think this will motivate the Hope gals to make sure the rematch isn't as close.  Trine also has a big game tomorrow hosting Calvin.  The Knights seem to be playing much better than they did in December when we won convincingly at Van Noord.  We haven't shot the ball well in the last couple weeks and that needs to improve as we head toward the end of the season.  Our defense is consistently good though.  Massey currently has Hope as the number 1 defensive team in the nation and Trine at number 3 (Amherst is number 2).  I believe the top 4 teams will remain the same in the MIAA come playoff time.  Hope the clear-cut 1 seed, Trine and Albion battle for the 2 seed (honestly it doesn't matter as 2 vs 3 will be played at Hope in the MIAA tournament) and I think Calvin will hold off Saint Mary's for the 4th seed.

I hope you're right, indicators are that Hope should win by a decent margin but I tend to be a pessimist :)

Good luck to the Thunder, I like your team especially when you're playing Calvin!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 29, 2020, 07:51:00 PM
Hope's leading scorer Sydney Muller apparently not playing vs. Albion?  Anyone have news?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on January 29, 2020, 09:07:53 PM
Hope blows out Albion at home, who is a top 50 team whichever source and data you use. Without Muller too.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 29, 2020, 09:22:49 PM
(https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=710/cr=n/d=4w24l/es7kvekeakkuc1v8.jpg)

Time for a marathon!

Thursday, Hoopsville will be on the air for at least nine hours in the 7th Annual Hoopsville Marathon Show.

This year's show will feature coaches, administrators, and many others around Division III to give us a sense of the season to date and what is to come. There is only a month or so left in the regular season, so there is plenty to talk about.

For more information about the show and its impact, click here.

The show's guest list is below with a rough idea of when they were scheduled to appear during the live show.

The marathon is also a chance to fundraise of the show. Many fans of Hoopsville ask often how they can give to the program so we can continue doing our work into the future. In the first few years of the Marathon, the fundraising side was an important aspect. However in the last few years, we have shyed away from fundraising as we tried to find other means to financially run the program. After requests from many, we are do have a few ways fans can contribute.

Hoopsville is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. You can watch the entire Marathon show LIVE in the video player above. We will effort to turn around podcast episodes of the entire show. They will be available to the right (after the show is off the air).

Guests appear on the Hoopsville Hotline presented by BlueFrame Technology.

And don't forget to interact with the Dave and guests. You can use the social media option to the right and even email (dave.mchugh@d3sports.com) questions to the show.


When it comes to the game of basketball, we love celebrating not only the student-athletes in Division III, but also those who help carry the game forward sometimes outside of the spotlight.

Sunday on Hoopsville, we celebrate those who have made the game of basketball, especially at DIII, so great. Coaches who continue to excel in different parts of the country and programs who play for more than just themselves.

Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. You can watch Thursday's Marathon Show in the following ways:
- Main page: www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville
- Show page: http://bit.ly/2GBqAuZ (or www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2019-20/marathon)
- Facebook Live Simulcast: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville
- YouTube Simulcast: www.youtube.com/d3hoopsville
- Team1 Sports: www.team1sports.com/Hoopsville/
- Team1 Sports app (https://team1sports.com/) (Android TV, Amazon Fire, Apple TV, Roku) - you will either find it under the "live" section or search for the Hoopsville channel

All men's coaches appear in the NABC Coach's Corner. And all guests are featured on the BlueFrame Technology Hoopsville Hotline.

If you have questions about Division III basketball, feel free to send them and we will answer them on a the show. Email them to dave.mchugh@d3sports.com or use any of the social media options.

Hoopsville Marathon Schedule
Timing approximate and subject to change

























Time (ET)GuestSchool/Institution
12:20 p.m.Jim CalhounSt. Joseph's (Conn.) men's coach
12:40 p.m.Pat JuckemNo. 11 WashU men's coach
1:00 p.m.Brian MorehouseNo. 3 Hope women's coach
1:20 p.m.Lauren BusalacchiRipon women's coach
1:40 p.m.Ryan HylandJohn Jay men's coach
2:00 p.m.Dan DutcherNCAA VP for Division III
2:40 p.m.Karin HarveyMontclair State women's coach, Women's National Committee chair
3:00 p.m.Adrienne ShiblesNo. 2 Bowdoin women's coach
3:20 p.m.Kate PearsonCabrini women's coach
3:40 p.m.Matt GilbrideRPI men's coach
4:00 p.m.Sam AtkinsonGallaudet Associate AD for Comm., Men's National Committee Chair
4:20 p.m.Matt DonahueCatholic women's coach
4:40 p.m.Charles KatsiaficasPomona-Pitzer men's coach
5:00 p.m.Jon HerbrechtsmeyerNo. 5 Bethel women's coach
5:20 p.m.Chris CarideoWidener men's coach
5:40 p.m.Dave HixonAmherst men's coach (sabbatical)
6:00 p.m.Tricia CullopWBCA Board President, Toledo women's coach
6:20 p.m.Alex RicheyNo. 18 Oglethorpe women's coach
6:40 p.m.Jody MayAlbion men's coach
7:00 p.m.Dave MacedoNo. 18 Virginia Wesleyan men's coach
7:20 p.m.Melissa KuberkaSt. John Fisher women's coach
8:00 p.m.HOOPSVILLE HAPPY HOUR A gaggle of some of the shows friends - to be announced
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on January 30, 2020, 12:27:14 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 29, 2020, 07:51:00 PM
Hope's leading scorer Sydney Muller apparently not playing vs. Albion?  Anyone have news?

Saw the pre-game warm-ups on video. Sydney was in sweats watching, she was walking favoring her right leg or ankle.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 30, 2020, 09:07:56 AM
Well that wasn't as tight as I was expecting.  Here's hoping for a quick recovery for Ms. Muller, she will be needed.  That said, Lauren Newman really stepped up in Sydney's absence with a career high 25 including 6-9 from deep. A good example of Hope's depth, where they have 12 players averaging between 9-21 minutes and 3.1-10.6 points. The Hope defense was again stifling, holding an opponent under 40 for the 7th time this season
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on January 30, 2020, 11:45:25 AM
It could have been a lot more if they hadn't kept leaving Bernas wide open too!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on January 30, 2020, 05:18:51 PM
Trine with a defensive gem against Calvin last night, winning 56-33.  Check out this stat...with Calving leading 26-23 with 7:45 to play in the 3rd quarter, Trine goes on a 31-0 run over the next 12+ minutes spanning the 3rd and 4th quarters!  When I was watching the game it didn't occur to me that Calvin was stuck on 26 for so long.  I knew we were having a good run, but not to that extent.

Offensivley, our offense was just...offensive.  ::)  Except for Bieniewicz and Steers we need to stop shooting the 3.  We were 2-22, a whopping 9.1%! Wildman and Herbert threw up a bunch of clunkers that's for sure going a combined 0-11.

It's a good thing our defense is steller.  But sooner or later we gotta start putting the ball in the hoop more consistently.  We shot much better in the games I saw in December than we are now.  Might be tired legs?  Who knows what's changed. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: DrDutchman on January 31, 2020, 02:49:06 PM
Muller rumored to have a knee injury in practice. Didn't hear if surgery is needed
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 31, 2020, 03:49:20 PM
Reviewing the box score from the Hope Albion game on Wednesday, I noted an oddity.

1st half, Hope goes 6-17 from the FT line.  That's an awful shooting percentage, and a lot of FTs, but that's not the oddity.

2nd half Hope is 0-0 from the line.  Don't think I have ever seen that much difference in FT attempts between halves.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on January 31, 2020, 06:17:49 PM
Quote from: DrDutchman on January 31, 2020, 02:49:06 PM
Muller rumored to have a knee injury in practice. Didn't hear if surgery is needed
Please just a sprain . . . losing her (both her offense and her defense) would deal a blow to Hope's post-season dreams . . . and be a personal misfortune for her as well.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on February 02, 2020, 05:20:44 PM
Quote from: DrDutchman on January 31, 2020, 02:49:06 PM
Muller rumored to have a knee injury in practice. Didn't hear if surgery is needed
I heard that she tore her ACL. Can anyone confirm that?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 02, 2020, 05:27:54 PM
Can't confirm but that would be such a shame if true.  The Dutch would be better able to deal with the loss of their leading scorer than most teams due to their depth and balance, but she's a great player and come post season you need all your weapons.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 08, 2020, 01:07:25 PM
Any further news on Hope's Sydney Muller?

At this point it looks likely that any remaining MIAA drama will probably be on the last day of the regular season when Trine plays at Hope.  If everything goes to form until then, that game would mean either an outright championship for Hope or co-champions with a Trine win.  Trine does have to get past Albion at Albion this coming Wednesday, no easy feat, but the Thunder have won 9 in a row and seem to be playing really well.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 10, 2020, 04:17:06 PM
Hope now #1 in D3 in three statistical categories:

- Scoring defense @ 40.3 ppg which is 5 ppg better than #2 Amherst; Trine is #3 and just a tick behind Amherst
- Field goal % defense @ 29.3 %
- Scoring margin @ 36.5 ppg, a full 10.3 ppg better than #2 Trinity (TX).  Hope's entire roster of 15 averages between 7-22 minutes per game

Turnover margin is #4 and rebounding margin is #10.

Offensive stats are more modest but still very good.  Come postseason I'm hoping the old adage "defense travels" applies here!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 12, 2020, 03:33:21 PM
Women's first Regional Rankings released.

https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2020/02/women-regional-rankings-first
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on February 12, 2020, 04:31:46 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 10, 2020, 04:17:06 PM
Hope now #1 in D3 in three statistical categories:

- Scoring defense @ 40.3 ppg which is 5 ppg better than #2 Amherst; Trine is #3 and just a tick behind Amherst
- Field goal % defense @ 29.3 %
- Scoring margin @ 36.5 ppg, a full 10.3 ppg better than #2 Trinity (TX).  Hope's entire roster of 15 averages between 7-22 minutes per game

Turnover margin is #4 and rebounding margin is #10.

Offensive stats are more modest but still very good.  Come postseason I'm hoping the old adage "defense travels" applies here!
Hopefully the defense (and offense) won't be doing much traveling at all.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 12, 2020, 05:44:04 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on February 12, 2020, 04:31:46 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 10, 2020, 04:17:06 PM
Hope now #1 in D3 in three statistical categories:

- Scoring defense @ 40.3 ppg which is 5 ppg better than #2 Amherst; Trine is #3 and just a tick behind Amherst
- Field goal % defense @ 29.3 %
- Scoring margin @ 36.5 ppg, a full 10.3 ppg better than #2 Trinity (TX).  Hope's entire roster of 15 averages between 7-22 minutes per game

Turnover margin is #4 and rebounding margin is #10.

Offensive stats are more modest but still very good.  Come postseason I'm hoping the old adage "defense travels" applies here!
Hopefully the defense (and offense) won't be doing much traveling at all.

Cheers to that!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 17, 2020, 05:16:55 PM
Congratulations to Trine's Tara Bieniewicz for MIAA player of the week honors.  She had a really strong week, averaging 19 pts on lights out shooting but what is really impressive is 51 minutes played with no turnovers!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on February 17, 2020, 08:35:47 PM
She and her teammates have a spiffy new Top 25 ranking, just in time for Saturday's big game.

https://www.d3hoops.com/top25/women/2019-20/week11
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 17, 2020, 08:56:45 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on February 17, 2020, 08:35:47 PM
She and her teammates have a spiffy new Top 25 ranking, just in time for Saturday's big game.

https://www.d3hoops.com/top25/women/2019-20/week11

A ranking is well-deserved I think.  The Thunder have won 11 in a row and their only losses this year have been:

#2 Hope after leading in the 4th
at #12 B-W in a tight game
at #21 Chicago in OT after leading most of the game
Ohio Wesleyan, not a bad team on the 1st weekend of the season.

That's a pretty strong resume and they seem to be getting stronger as the season wears on.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on February 18, 2020, 07:11:31 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 17, 2020, 08:56:45 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on February 17, 2020, 08:35:47 PM
She and her teammates have a spiffy new Top 25 ranking, just in time for Saturday's big game.

https://www.d3hoops.com/top25/women/2019-20/week11

A ranking is well-deserved I think.  The Thunder have won 11 in a row and their only losses this year have been:

#2 Hope after leading in the 4th
at #12 B-W in a tight game
at #21 Chicago in OT after leading most of the game
Ohio Wesleyan, not a bad team on the 1st weekend of the season.

That's a pretty strong resume and they seem to be getting stronger as the season wears on.

This is well deserved recognition for this young Trine team.  After losing 3 starters and 4 of the top 6 scorers from last year it was a "re-tooling" for these girls this year.  Brandi was tough to defend over her career at Trine and could do so much on the court, losing that production along with Cassidy, who was the vocal leader, meant some girls needed to really step up this year.

I've watched every home Trine game this year other than 1 game.  I think we've gotten better, but we've also had some real "offensive stinkers" too.  The gal that makes us go is senior point guard Katy Steers (the only senior on this team).  She is tough as nails.  She doesn't have to score as she is adept at getting the ball to our shooters, but will take you off the dribble or shoot the 3 when needed.  If we shoot the ball well from outside we are a tough team to beat.  Tara has been the most consistent, she can be a star in this league in the next 2 years.  Kayla had been in a shooting slump but is starting to find her touch.

What makes this team good is they just get after it defensively (just like Hope does).  I listened to an interview with Tara after the Adrian game last Saturday and she says it is typical that in a 2 hour practice they will spend around 1.5 hrs sharpening their defense.  I wish our mens team played with the same defensive intensity that the gals do.  ::)

The games we've lost, as mentioned before, are to 3 other teams in the top 25, and to an OWU squad where they hit everything in sight in the 2nd half.  What we need is a "signature win" to help with post season seeding (if we get there).  We'll more than likely have 2 opportunities in the next couple weeks against Hope.  I'd sure like to see us get 1 "W" against the Dutch.  I mean you don't want to go into the NCAA tournament undefeated do you?  :-\
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 19, 2020, 02:20:33 PM
Well, I wouldn't mind if the Dutch ran the table in conference play, it would certainly help with prospects for hosting for a while in the NCAAs :)

That said, it really is remarkable how fast Trine has rebuilt after losing so much.  Effort and defense can go a long way, the top teams are always at risk of having a bad game offensively but defense can still win the day.

In any case, it's good that Trine and Hope can test each other, much better to prep for the post season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 19, 2020, 03:06:52 PM
The second week Regional Rankings are out: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2020/02/women-regional-rankings-second
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on February 19, 2020, 07:48:15 PM
Does anyone know what happened to Ashleigh Thomas for Hope?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on February 19, 2020, 10:13:46 PM
Ashleigh Thomas came out on the court after the game wearing a boot on her left foot. She was walking on it without crutches. Watching the replay at home, her leg got tangled with a Olivet's player. On replay looked like the knee, but dodged that bullet. Hopefully, it's not long term. I'd be surprised if she was ready for Saturday's Trine game. But maybe it's only a precaution.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 20, 2020, 05:28:14 AM
Quote from: jspiii on February 19, 2020, 10:13:46 PM
Ashleigh Thomas came out on the court after the game wearing a boot on her left foot. She was walking on it without crutches. Watching the replay at home, her leg got tangled with a Olivet's player. On replay looked like the knee, but dodged that bullet. Hopefully, it's not long term. I'd be surprised if she was ready for Saturday's Trine game. But maybe it's only a precaution.

That would be a shame if Thomas couldn't go vs Trine.  Taking on the Thunder down two starters would be a tough task.  Muller and Thomas contributed 36% of the pts and 25% of the rebs in the earlier tight win vs Trine.  Hope has been able to give its bench a lot of PT this year, that can only help....
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 20, 2020, 04:27:47 PM
Just FYI - the "boot" is used for so many things now it is crazy. If it existed in a large sense back when I played collegiate soccer, I probably would have been wearing it nearly every day of the season ... just because if you roll an ankle, now, they put you in the boot to be careful.

Edit: I meant to add, it was around when I played, but it was for very serious injuries. We got ace bandaged wrapped or a aircast like thing if we were lucky for anything but a major injury.

It used to automatically mean someone has a serious injury and is going to miss a lot of time. Now, I've seen baseball players in the majors play an entire game in the infield including plenty of running around the bases and go home in a boot - not because they injured themselves, but because they had an injury and the boot is to keep them safe off the field.

It has become a bit of a misdirection when it comes to injuries.

I have no idea in this case what is going on, but the boot might not be really telling the whole story. It could be minor and she will be back soon.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 20, 2020, 04:59:07 PM
Good point Dave, thanks.  Here's to hoping it's just precautionary!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 21, 2020, 05:33:06 AM
I did read confirmation in the Holland newspaper that Sydney Muller is out for the season, rumors of ACL I guess were true.  She was leading in scoring and MVP of all three early season tournaments so surely a big loss.  On the other hand, Hope is deep and she's been out for weeks now so Hope has had some time to adjust before the post season.  Best wishes to Ms. Muller for a full recovery for her senior season next year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on February 21, 2020, 10:37:04 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 21, 2020, 05:33:06 AM
I did read confirmation in the Holland newspaper that Sydney Muller is out for the season, rumors of ACL I guess were true.  She was leading in scoring and MVP of all three early season tournaments so surely a big loss.  On the other hand, Hope is deep and she's been out for weeks now so Hope has had some time to adjust before the post season.  Best wishes to Ms. Muller for a full recovery for her senior season next year.

Yes, she was not at Wed. Feb 12th home game, so I presume she had her surgery sometime around then. She was at this Wednesday's home game with her leg encased in a brace and on crutches. Hopefully, she'll be ready for the beginning of next season.

Natalee Kott is off her crutches (from a pre-season knee injury) but still walking somewhat gingerly.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on February 22, 2020, 10:04:03 AM
Quote from: jspiii on February 21, 2020, 10:37:04 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 21, 2020, 05:33:06 AM
I did read confirmation in the Holland newspaper that Sydney Muller is out for the season, rumors of ACL I guess were true.  She was leading in scoring and MVP of all three early season tournaments so surely a big loss.  On the other hand, Hope is deep and she's been out for weeks now so Hope has had some time to adjust before the post season.  Best wishes to Ms. Muller for a full recovery for her senior season next year.

Yes, she was not at Wed. Feb 12th home game, so I presume she had her surgery sometime around then. She was at this Wednesday's home game with her leg encased in a brace and on crutches. Hopefully, she'll be ready for the beginning of next season.

Natalee Kott is off her crutches (from a pre-season knee injury) but still walking somewhat gingerly.

Sorry to hear the news about Sydney Muller, hate to see anyone have their season end due to injury.  Wishing her a speedy recovery so she can come back strong next season.  Also hoping that Ashleigh Thomas injury isn't severe.  Ashleigh always plays well against Trine in the games I've seen in Angola, she is a thorn in our side. ;)  You never want to go into tournament play not being at full strength.  However, with Hope's impressive team depth you should be able to "plug and play" most anyone into the starting lineup and not lose much at all.

I think it's time for Kenedy Schoonveld to put this team on her back.  I was so impressed with her the first time I saw her play against Trine a few years ago as a freshman, and in the games since.  She hasn't had to take on much of the scoring load because most of your games have been blowouts and all the starters rarely play more than 20 minutes a game.  She has the capability to create her own offense when needed though.

Should be a great atmosphere at DeVos today.  Senior Day and I hear there are promotions for gift card giveaways to students attending, and the first 500 fans get free popcorn and a Hope foam finger.  Hopefully Trine can play well enough to make it a close game.  Wish I was in Holland today, but will be at MTI watching the Thunder men take on the Flying Dutch men.

Maybe next weekend if Trine makes it to the championship game I'll make the trek up there.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 22, 2020, 11:57:11 AM
Muller is a big loss, she has a full package of offense, defense and toughness that is just a step above the others IMO.  But Hope IS blessed with depth and Coach Mo has always played at least 8-10 deep even in the tightest games, so the team is in as good a position as could be expected given the loss of a key player.  It happens to most teams at one time or another, just have to move on.

Massey has Hope as a pretty solid favorite.  I don't really see it that way and expect the same kind of tight game we've seen between these two over the past couple of years.

"the first 500 fans get free popcorn and a Hope foam finger"

Tempted to make some joke about showing up and being given the finger, but I won't :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on February 22, 2020, 01:09:20 PM
Massey has Hope winning 60-47.  If Trine only scores 47 pts there is a 99.9% chance we'll lose.  We have to score in the 60's to win and Hope would have to have an off shooting day.

Please give you analysis after the game Roundball.  The 'giving the finger' joke would be a little cliché.  ::)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 22, 2020, 01:25:58 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 22, 2020, 01:09:20 PM
Massey has Hope winning 60-47.  If Trine only scores 47 pts there is a 99.9% chance we'll lose.  We have to score in the 60's to win and Hope would have to have an off shooting day.

Please give you analysis after the game Roundball.  The 'giving the finger' joke would be a little cliché.  ::)

Guilty.  Cliché, corny, etc.

Not 100% sure I'll be back online in time to catch the game but will give my thoughts if I see it.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on February 22, 2020, 02:21:08 PM
Good news for Hope, Ashleigh Thomas is dressed and warming up. We'll have to wait for game time to be sure, but it looks like she is good to go.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 23, 2020, 09:26:25 AM
Another great game between Hope and Trine with a fantastic crowd (listed at 2079 but it looked to be much closer to 3000 based on the video feed and some photos). Tight first half with Trine leading 26-25 at halftime. Hope played a strong 3rd quarter to lead 46-41 heading to the 4th. Midway through the fourth a couple of big 3s by Hope got the lead to 11 but the Thunder kept fighting, and had the lead down to 5 with 22 sec left.  Hope ball but Trine allowed Hope to run the clock down to 8 sec before fouling. They had many opportunities to foul but were obviously told not to foul. I just don’t get that.  Schoonveld made the two FT with 8 sec left to put Hope up 59-52 and that was the final score.

Congrats to both teams on excellent seasons. Expect we see a third battle between these two next Saturday, and I expect them both to make the NCAA tourney as well.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 23, 2020, 09:33:14 AM
I wasn't able to watch the game but I noticed based on the box score that statistically the teams played a pretty evenly matched game.  The thing that jumped out that seemed to be the difference was that Hope had 15 more shots - apparently a result of a few more offensive rebounds by Hope and 9 more turnovers by Trine.  Everything else seemed close.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 25, 2020, 04:53:49 PM
All MIAA awards are out:

https://www.miaa.org/sports/wbkb/2019-20/releases/AllMIAA2020
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 26, 2020, 02:21:19 PM
Women's third regional rankings are out: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2020/02/women-regional-rankings-third
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 26, 2020, 07:03:16 PM
Good to see Trine move up in the latest Regionals.  Have to think the Thunder will be in the NCAA field even if they don't win the MIAA tourney.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on February 27, 2020, 05:41:24 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 26, 2020, 07:03:16 PM
Good to see Trine move up in the latest Regionals.  Have to think the Thunder will be in the NCAA field even if they don't win the MIAA tourney.

I hope so.  They really deserve it as they had to prove that this is a program that can lose a lot of talent from 3 consecutive NCAA tournament teams and still be a darn good team this year.  They beat some decent teams in the nonconference season; Ohio Northern and Hanover are both ranked in the top 10 in the Great Lakes region.  They also beat a good Denison team.  4 of our losses are to Hope (twice) and Baldwin Wallace who are the top 2 teams in our region, and Chicago who is number 2 in the Central region.  The only 'bad' loss was to Ohio Wesleyan who is just a .500 team.

I might try to get to Holland Saturday if Trine advances to the championship.  But if the Trine men make it to the championship on Saturday night I'll probably go to it over the gals game for 2 reasons:  the Trine men will graduate a lot of seniors and I'd like to see them play one more time, and Albion is a heck of a lot closer than Holland.  ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on February 29, 2020, 06:56:54 AM
Couple of relatively easy wins for Trine and Hope last night in the tournament semifinals to set up another MIAA championship game between the 2 squads.  This is the 5th straight year for Trine in the championship game and 4th against Hope. 

Good luck to both the Thunder men and women in the championship games tonight (the MBB team upset #1 seed Albion in the semifinals).  I'll be in Albion tonight to watch the men take on Adrian.  Both are looking for their first NCAA tournament berth.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 29, 2020, 09:17:54 AM
Both women's teams should be reasonably well rested considering the back to back games.  Big leads in the first half.  No one from the Dutch played more than 18 minutes and the entire roster played at least 9.    Key Trine players played a bit more but still appear to have gotten decent rest.  Here's hoping for a well played game where both teams can feel proud of their effort.  I'm convinced they're both in the NCAA regardless of tonight's outcome.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on February 29, 2020, 09:44:04 PM
10 @HopeCollegeWBB players have played at least 40 cumulative minutes over the past 3 games:
Kenedy Schooneveld
Lauren Newman
Olivia Voskuil
Kasey DeSmit
Ashleigh Thomas
Courtenay Barnes
Jess Moorman
Arika Tolbert
Claire Baguley
Meg Morehouse

Uncharacteristically, Voskuil is 6/31 from the floor (19%). Tolbert has also not shot well: 1/7 (14%). Newman is 7/27 (26%).
Morehouse and Baguley have both shot very well, on limited attempts. 64% and 58%.
Schooneveld has been the offensive stalwart, 18/30 from the floor. 60%.
Thomas has been great too, 10/19 (53%).

From 3PT, no player has made more than 3 over the past 3 games. Voskuil is 0/7. Probably stop shooting those.
Morehouse and Baguley are both 3/5. Sneaky good. They've both been rock solid.

Voskuil has been amazing from the line, 15/19 (79%). That and her defense have been her redeeming factors.
No other player has made more than 4.

Barnes leads the team with 15 rebounds. Voskuil 13. Thomas 12. Newman 11.

Tolbert leads with 7 assists. DeSmit 6. Barnes 5.
Tolbert also leads with 9 steals. Voskuil has 9 as well. DeSmit 7. Barnes and Thomas 5.

Voskuil leads with 7 blocks. Barnes has 2.

Barnes has committed 8 turnovers. Yikes!   Voskuil and Tolbert with 6.

DeSmit has committed 7 fouls. Voskuil and Tolbert with 6.

Schooneveld leads with 43 points. Voskuil with 27. Thomas with 26. Morehouse with 21.

Adding up the "good" counting stats (PTS, REB, AST, STL, BLK), subtracting the "bad" stats, and dividing by Minutes:
Meg Morehouse, 0.81
Olivia Voskuil, 0.72
Kenedy Schooneveld, 0.71
Ashleigh Thomas, 0.60
Courtenay Barnes, 0.53
Jess Moorman, 0.43
Lauren Newman, 0.41
Claire Baguley, 0.40
Arika Tolbert, 0.22
Kasey DeSmit, 0.22

Awesome production while on the floor from Morehouse!!

Tolbert and DeSmit have been very underwhelming.

"Floor" (Non FT) Points / Floor Shots:
Meg Morehouse, 1.42
Claire Baguley, 1.35
Jess Moorman, 1.23
Kenedy Schooneveld, 1.15
Ashleigh Thomas, 1.07
Kasey DeSmit, 0.67
Courtenay Barnes, 0.67
Lauren Newman, 0.57
Arika Tolbert, 0.56
Olivia Voskuil, 0.32

** To be fair, Morehouse, Moorman, and Baguley all padded their stats against Calvin when the game was already a blowout.  In general the 5 starters are facing a stiffer defensive test.

Trine really pushed Hope these last 2 matchups, but Hope got it done.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on February 29, 2020, 10:10:06 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 29, 2020, 09:44:04 PM
10 @HopeCollegeWBB players have played at least 40 cumulative minutes over the past 3 games:
Nice (and amazingly quick) analysis ScottieDawg. Yes, Meg Morehouse has been outstanding--on offense as well as defense. Her minutes are rising at the season's end, and deservedly so. She and Claire Baguley show increasing confidence and great promise. And great to see Arika Tolbert concluding her career with so many minutes, and such great defense.

Even with her normally reliable layups strangely missing, Olivia's free throw shooting has shown an amazing improvement. And Hope is such a better team when she is in the lane on defense.

Empathy goes out to TUAngola for two tough loses tonight . . . but Trine women will deservedly play on . . . and who knows--they could dream of a 4th game with Hope . . . as far down the road as possible, I'd hope.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on February 29, 2020, 10:15:51 PM
Quote from: pointlem on February 29, 2020, 10:10:06 PM
...such great defense.

Yep, my analysis is devoid of defense. :-)  Would love to see +/- or something to tease that side of it out.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on February 29, 2020, 11:16:13 PM
Muller on crutches; I know nothing, but assume she is indeed out for the year and Hope hasn't announced anything to maximize hosting and seeding probabilities. #KenyonMartin
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 29, 2020, 11:25:48 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 29, 2020, 11:16:13 PM
Muller on crutches; I know nothing, but assume she is indeed out for the year and Hope hasn't announced anything to maximize hosting and seeding probabilities. #KenyonMartin

Injuries have no part of hosting or seeding.  Likely they release very little information because they have HIPAA requirements that prevent it.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on February 29, 2020, 11:38:15 PM
Perhaps, but who knows what is considered in a black box selection process. For example, it's not explicitly stated that late wins/losses carry more weight than early ones, but I bet it's considered to some degree, especially if teams are very equal after all primary criteria are considered.

"Additionally, input is provided by regional advisory committees for consideration by the Division III men's and women's basketball committees."

That could mean anything.

And sure HIPAA, but everyone knew pretty immediately when Jake Honor was our for the year. Idk.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 29, 2020, 11:44:46 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 29, 2020, 11:38:15 PM
And sure HIPAA, but everyone knew pretty immediately when Jake Honor was our for the year. Idk.

Probably because Jake told anyone who asked the night of the injury he thought he tore his ACL and was done.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on February 29, 2020, 11:47:34 PM
Fair enough!

Am I learning that generally season ending injuries are not either disclosed or widely known by fans, across D3?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 29, 2020, 11:51:45 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 29, 2020, 11:47:34 PM
Fair enough!

Am I learning that generally season ending injuries are not either disclosed or widely known by fans, across D3?

There's a difference between saying, "we don't expect ______ back this season" and saying "________ will have surgery on her torn ACL tomorrow."  That's all. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 29, 2020, 11:52:29 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 29, 2020, 11:38:15 PM
Perhaps, but who knows what is considered in a black box selection process. For example, it's not explicitly stated that late wins/losses carry more weight than early ones, but I bet it's considered to some degree, especially if teams are very equal after all primary criteria are considered.

"Additionally, input is provided by regional advisory committees for consideration by the Division III men's and women's basketball committees."

That could mean anything.

And sure HIPAA, but everyone knew pretty immediately when Jake Honor was our for the year. Idk.

The input is a ranking from the RAC sent to the national committee.  It's all spelled out and they work very hard not to include anything outside the well stated criteria.  Injuries aren't a part of it.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on March 01, 2020, 12:16:15 AM
Thanks for educating me! I find it fascinating when selection committees are both explicitly told what criteria to consider AND what criteria they cannot consider.   Kind of like deciphering whether a rule book not explicitly disallowing something allows it or not.

Also interesting that D1 committees can factor in injuries but D3 cannot.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 01, 2020, 09:02:36 AM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 29, 2020, 11:16:13 PM
Muller on crutches; I know nothing, but assume she is indeed out for the year and Hope hasn't announced anything to maximize hosting and seeding probabilities. #KenyonMartin

Her status has been in the newspaper and discussed on these boards weeks ago so there's no secret there.  She had an ACL, has already had surgery and is on the road to recovery.  No doubt she is a great player but Hope has won the last 9 games without her including two vs Trine so seems the Dutch have adjusted as well as could be expected.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on March 01, 2020, 10:07:30 AM
Congrats to Hope on the win last night.  Did I not mention in previous posts that Ashleigh Thomas always plays well against Trine?  ::)  She's been a thorn in our side the past 3 years.  Now it's a wait and see if Trine makes the "dance".  After last years injustice of a draw that Trine received it will be interesting to see if the committee leaves them out altogether this year.  It wouldn't surprise me at all.

Speaking of being shorthanded I noticed in the box score that Trine's Shay Herbert did not start or play at all last night.  It will be huge if we get into the trournament if she is hurt.  We depend on her for defense and rebounding in the post so much.  Does anyone who attended either Friday or Saturday's games know what happened?  Was she in street clothes on the bench for the game last night?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 01, 2020, 10:15:32 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on March 01, 2020, 10:07:30 AM
Congrats to Hope on the win last night.  Did I not mention in previous posts that Ashleigh Thomas always plays well against Trine?  ::)  She's been a thorn in our side the past 3 years.  Now it's a wait and see if Trine makes the "dance".  After last years injustice of a draw that Trine received it will be interesting to see if the committee leaves them out altogether this year.  It wouldn't surprise me at all.

Speaking of being shorthanded I noticed in the box score that Trine's Shay Herbert did not start or play at all last night.  It will be huge if we get into the trournament if she is hurt.  We depend on her for defense and rebounding in the post so much.  Does anyone who attended either Friday or Saturday's games know what happened?  Was she in street clothes on the bench for the game last night?

You did say that about Thomas.  I think she's had at least two of her career highs vs. Trine.  No idea why.

I know the number of losses is a little concerning but it would be a travesty IMO is Trine isn't selected.  Great SoS and a really strong team.  I just hope the Dutch never see them again :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on March 01, 2020, 10:16:28 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 01, 2020, 09:02:36 AM
Her status has been in the newspaper and discussed on these boards weeks ago so there's no secret there.

Then that's my fault--I totally missed that.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope81 on March 01, 2020, 12:53:08 PM
Speaking of being shorthanded I noticed in the box score that Trine's Shay Herbert did not start or play at all last night.  It will be huge if we get into the trournament if she is hurt.  We depend on her for defense and rebounding in the post so much.  Does anyone who attended either Friday or Saturday's games know what happened?  Was she in street clothes on the bench for the game last night?

Sources at the game last night indicated she banged her knee quite hard on the scorer's table.  There is hope though that it is just a bruise and she may be available for next weekend if Trine's season continues on.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 01, 2020, 01:50:40 PM
With #5 Bowdoin today defeating #1 Tufts, 70 to 60, Hope ends its regular season as the only undefeated DIII women's team . . . and likely a #1 ranking to come. Regardless of what happens in the NCAA tournament, that is an achievement for this team to savor.

And obviously, TUAngola, Trine is but an inch off from that level . . . and after both teams last year graduated their top scoring stars. A great season for Trine as well.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on March 01, 2020, 01:53:34 PM
The last seven champions have been undefeated so...

Congratulations to the 2020 National Champion Hope College Flying Dutch!

Seriously, it's been a really special season already.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 01, 2020, 02:02:04 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on March 01, 2020, 01:53:34 PM
The last seven champions have been undefeated so...

Congratulations to the 2020 National Champion Hope College Flying Dutch!

Seriously, it's been a really special season already.

Yikes, we don't need that bulletin board fodder!  Though it has a nice ring to it.....

I'm no expert, but it looks to me that there are a larger number of teams than usual that you could imagine winning the championship this year.  Just watching video, it's hard to discern much difference among the top teams.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 01, 2020, 04:25:21 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 01, 2020, 02:02:04 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on March 01, 2020, 01:53:34 PM
The last seven champions have been undefeated so...

Congratulations to the 2020 National Champion Hope College Flying Dutch!

Seriously, it's been a really special season already.

Yikes, we don't need that bulletin board fodder!  Though it has a nice ring to it.....

I'm no expert, but it looks to me that there are a larger number of teams than usual that you could imagine winning the championship this year.  Just watching video, it's hard to discern much difference among the top teams.

Better hope that CCIW champ IWU doesn't get sent to Holland.  In 2012, the Hope men were ranked #1 and undefeated against D3 competition (23 game winning streak overall) - in double OT (one of the greatest games I've ever seen in person), they were bounced from the tourney by the Titans. ;)

As a Titan fan, I also hope we don't get sent to Holland.  We already beat Chicago by 7 on their court, and only lost by 2 to DePauw on a neutral court.  I think we'd stand a much better chance against either of those likely hosts than against the Dutch - we caught lightning in 2012, but I don't wanna tempt fate!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on March 02, 2020, 03:18:55 PM
I have Hope with the 3rd hardest "potential 1st and 2nd rd pod draw", which assumes the higher Massey ranked team wins. So Hope would face Grove City, then Illinois Wesleyan.

This is due to Hope's 1st round opponent being ranked 57 in Massey. The difference in spots of 56 is the 15th smallest gap of the 1st round matchups. BUT, Hope's winning probability vs. #56 could be similar to say, SUNY New Paltz vs. Husson. You're probably at 99%+ anyway.

If the "chalk" wins in the 1st round, Hope's 2nd round game vs. #27 IWU would be the 13th easiest matchup of the 16.

Tufts and Amherst probably have a 99.9% chance to win their opening round games.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2020, 03:25:27 PM
Well, if we survive Friday against Berea (about whom I know absolutely nothing except that they went 23-3), I guess I'll spend Saturday chanting "2012, 2012, 2012"! ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 02, 2020, 03:42:22 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2020, 03:25:27 PM
Well, if we survive Friday against Berea (about whom I know absolutely nothing except that they went 23-3), I guess I'll spend Saturday chanting "2012, 2012, 2012"! ;D

What do a bunch of 30 year old guys (everyone who played in that MENS game is in or close to their 30s by now) have to do with this women's tournament Chuck?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2020, 03:48:19 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 02, 2020, 03:42:22 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2020, 03:25:27 PM
Well, if we survive Friday against Berea (about whom I know absolutely nothing except that they went 23-3), I guess I'll spend Saturday chanting "2012, 2012, 2012"! ;D

What do a bunch of 30 year old guys (everyone who played in that MENS game is in or close to their 30s by now) have to do with this women's tournament Chuck?

Obviously, absolutely nothing.  But I need to do something to keep my spirits up when facing what looks like a hopeless cause! ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on March 02, 2020, 03:51:39 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2020, 03:48:19 PM
a hopeless cause! ;)

I see what you did there.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 02, 2020, 07:15:37 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2020, 03:48:19 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 02, 2020, 03:42:22 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2020, 03:25:27 PM
Well, if we survive Friday against Berea (about whom I know absolutely nothing except that they went 23-3), I guess I'll spend Saturday chanting "2012, 2012, 2012"! ;D

What do a bunch of 30 year old guys (everyone who played in that MENS game is in or close to their 30s by now) have to do with this women's tournament Chuck?

Obviously, absolutely nothing.  But I need to do something to keep my spirits up when facing what looks like a hopeless cause! ;)

In the selection show, Dave seemed a little ambivalent about Hope's noncon schedule as an indicator and he probably has a point.  Early in the year, Hope destroyed Benedictine 92-48 then Hanover 80-30.  Those looked like really good wins.  They also had a Holiday tournament win over NP, solid but far from a rout.  Then all those teams kind of faded at the end of the year.  So it still leaves the MIAA, mainly Trine, as Hope's main barometer.  Will be interesting to see how it plays out.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 03, 2020, 08:20:07 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 02, 2020, 07:15:37 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2020, 03:48:19 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 02, 2020, 03:42:22 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2020, 03:25:27 PM
Well, if we survive Friday against Berea (about whom I know absolutely nothing except that they went 23-3), I guess I'll spend Saturday chanting "2012, 2012, 2012"! ;D

What do a bunch of 30 year old guys (everyone who played in that MENS game is in or close to their 30s by now) have to do with this women's tournament Chuck?

Obviously, absolutely nothing.  But I need to do something to keep my spirits up when facing what looks like a hopeless cause! ;)

In the selection show, Dave seemed a little ambivalent about Hope's noncon schedule as an indicator and he probably has a point.  Early in the year, Hope destroyed Benedictine 92-48 then Hanover 80-30.  Those looked like really good wins.  They also had a Holiday tournament win over NP, solid but far from a rout.  Then all those teams kind of faded at the end of the year.  So it still leaves the MIAA, mainly Trine, as Hope's main barometer.  Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

I don't necessarily agree.  Let's look at those 3 teams you mentioned:

Benedictine - 24 - 3  |  3 - 3 vRRO  |  0.509 SOS
Hanover - 19 -7  |  1 - 4 vRRO  |  0.526 SOS
North Central - 12 - 15  |  2 - 8 vRRO  |  0.551 SOS

Hope - 27 - 0  |  6 - 0  |  0.557 SOS

So yes, North Central's record isn't great, but Benedictine (in the tourney) and Hanover are no slouch teams and were both regionally ranked - and Hope destroyed them both.


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 03, 2020, 08:41:04 AM
Quick assessment of Grove City @ Hope.  Couple of teams with pretty good defensive stats, albeit against a pretty large disparity in SOS.  Massey predicts a big Hope win:



Offense     % 2pt   % 3pt      % FT
Hope     50.2   30      67.7
Grove City     47.1   31.9      69.1
------             
Defense     % 2pt   % 3pt     
Hope     32.9   26.5     
Grove City     38   27.5     
------             
Rebounding     Team   Opp      Margin
Hope     41.5   30.8      10.7
Grove City     42.7   36.9      5.8
------             
Scoring     Team   Opp      Margin
Hope     76.1   42.2      33.9
Grove City     76.9   53      23.9
------             
3 point shooting     Made/game        
Hope     6.4        
Grove City     5.6        
------             
Ball Control     Stl/game   TO/Game      OppTO/Game
Hope     15.7   14.4      25.7
Grove City     14.3   16.5      26.1
------             
Ball Control     Asst/game   A/TO      Blks/game
Hope     15.1   1.05      4.3
Grove City     15.3   0.93      3
------             
    RRO   In-Div SOS      Massey Predicts
Hope     6 - 0   0.557      74
Grove City     1 - 1   0.462      47
            
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 03, 2020, 08:44:35 AM
Similar comparison for the first game on Friday Berea vs IWU.  Big disparity in rebounding margin, but also in SOS.  Massey predicts a closer game, but gives IWU a pretty good edge:



Offense     % 2pt   % 3pt      % FT
Berea     40.8   32.9      69.2
IWU     47.1   34.3      65
------             
Defense     % 2pt   % 3pt     
Berea     39.7   26.8     
IWU     46.2   30.1     
------             
Rebounding     Team   Opp      Margin
Berea     50   36.5      13.5
IWU     39.1   38      1.1
------             
Scoring     Team   Opp      Margin
Berea     76.9   58.6      18.3
IWU     74.6   65.3      9.3
------             
3 point shooting     Made/game        
Berea     7.7        
IWU     6.9        
------             
Ball Control     Stl/game   TO/Game      OppTO/Game
Berea     10.2   15      17.4
IWU     11.1   16.1      20.4
------             
Ball Control     Asst/game   A/TO      Blks/game
Berea     11.8   0.79      4.2
IWU     16.5   1.02      2.6
------             
      RRO   In-Div SOS      Massey Predicts
Berea     0 - 1   0.5      69
IWU     3 - 6   0.582      80
            
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 03, 2020, 09:46:58 AM
Kudos for your analyses, FDF.

Must we play the games, or could we just go with Massey Ratings?

https://www.masseyratings.com/tourn?t=1254
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 03, 2020, 10:24:25 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 03, 2020, 08:20:07 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 02, 2020, 07:15:37 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2020, 03:48:19 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 02, 2020, 03:42:22 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2020, 03:25:27 PM
Well, if we survive Friday against Berea (about whom I know absolutely nothing except that they went 23-3), I guess I'll spend Saturday chanting "2012, 2012, 2012"! ;D

What do a bunch of 30 year old guys (everyone who played in that MENS game is in or close to their 30s by now) have to do with this women's tournament Chuck?

Obviously, absolutely nothing.  But I need to do something to keep my spirits up when facing what looks like a hopeless cause! ;)

In the selection show, Dave seemed a little ambivalent about Hope's noncon schedule as an indicator and he probably has a point.  Early in the year, Hope destroyed Benedictine 92-48 then Hanover 80-30.  Those looked like really good wins.  They also had a Holiday tournament win over NP, solid but far from a rout.  Then all those teams kind of faded at the end of the year.  So it still leaves the MIAA, mainly Trine, as Hope's main barometer.  Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

I don't necessarily agree.  Let's look at those 3 teams you mentioned:

Benedictine - 24 - 3  |  3 - 3 vRRO  |  0.509 SOS
Hanover - 19 -7  |  1 - 4 vRRO  |  0.526 SOS
North Central - 12 - 15  |  2 - 8 vRRO  |  0.551 SOS

Hope - 27 - 0  |  6 - 0  |  0.557 SOS

So yes, North Central's record isn't great, but Benedictine (in the tourney) and Hanover are no slouch teams and were both regionally ranked - and Hope destroyed them both.




Not in violent disagreement.  Those were huge wins over good, not great, teams.  I think the missing may be the signature win over a top team like a B-W or Depauw.  On the other hand, it may turn out that all the Trine wins were signature wins, I have this suspicion that the Thunder are underrated even though ranked.  The tournament will tell us.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 04, 2020, 04:24:46 PM
Hope Pod

Offensive efficiency or Points per possession
Hope                 1.03
Grove City         1.00
Ill. Wesleyan       .97
Berea                1.02

I don't have a lot of context for these numbers in women's basketball, but over 1.00 seems pretty good.


Defensive efficiency
Hope                  .58
Grove City          .69
Ill Wesleyan       .86
Berea                 .78

Believe it or not, Hope's about 15% better on defense this year.



Pace or possessions per game
Hope                  73.8
Grove City          77.3
Ill Wesleyan       76.6
Berea                 78.5

Yes the women's game is a slightly faster paced game.  No one should really be troubled here


Four Factors

eFG%                Off             Def
Hope                   48.5            35.4
Grove City           51.8            39.9
Ill Wesleyan        48.4            45.8
Berea                  43.9            39.9

Grove City maybe not the pushover you would think.  Maybe 3 pretty good defensive teams here.


Rebounding
          %Off rebounds   Opp%Off rebounds
Hope                    40.4             25.8
Grove City            41.4             32.5
Ill Wesleyan         34.9             32.9
Berea                   46.8             28.7

Berea is a great offensive rebounding team and 3 of the 4 are probably really good.


FT Rate
Hope                    28.3             20.5
Grove City            24.9             27.4
Ill. Wesleyan        28.9             26.8
Berea                   37.4             30.1

Berea lives at the free-throw line.  I really have no idea how Hope can be such a good defensive team without fouling much.


Turnover Rate
                      TO rate          Opp TO rate          Margin
Hope                    19.5              35.2                    15.7
Grove City            21.4              12.7                    12.7
Ill. Wesleyan        21.0              26.8                     5.8
Berea                   19.9              23.2                     3.3

I have a theory on the men's side of things that wide disparities in your offensive and defensive turnover rate is sometimes a function of the schedule you play.  There is a possibility that beyond Hope, Trine and Albion the MIAA was pretty poor or Hope is just as good or better than last year where their defensive metrics were all similar.  Turning your opponent over on 35% of possessions reminds of Kramer from Seinfeld in the karate class.



This is sort of a weird pod because Grove City grades out really well for a "4 seed", so maybe not your typical 1 v 4 game.  Grove City is from the Presidents a conference Thomas More completely and utterly dominated for a decade so maybe Grove City is good, maybe the PAC is bad, but it surely was at least equally as bad as the bottom 2/3's of the MIAA?  I can't imagine it was worse, but maybe?

Berea also grades out pretty well and IWU not as well as you might expect, when you factor in schedule differences though it becomes pretty clear Hope and IWU are the favorites.  However I wouldn't be totally surprised if both games were closer than you might expect Friday night.  Given the Hope v Trine/Albion results maybe Saturday is closer to a toss-up?

The caveat here is I have no context for these numbers on the womens side since I don't track them as well as I do the men.  Hope's defensive efficiency number is bonkers though.




Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on March 05, 2020, 06:14:17 PM
Gordon Mann of D3Hoops.com in his preview of the 2020 tournament has Hope cutting down the nets in the Championship game!!

He also has Trine as the surprise team in the UWWhitewater bracket and could get to the Sweet 16.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 05, 2020, 06:41:25 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on March 05, 2020, 06:14:17 PM
Gordon Mann of D3Hoops.com in his preview of the 2020 tournament has Hope cutting down the nets in the Championship game!!

He also has Trine as the surprise team in the UWWhitewater bracket and could get to the Sweet 16.

Oh no, the kiss of death for both of us!  🤫
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 05, 2020, 08:39:03 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on March 05, 2020, 06:14:17 PM
Gordon Mann of D3Hoops.com in his preview of the 2020 tournament has Hope cutting down the nets in the Championship game!!

He also has Trine as the surprise team in the UWWhitewater bracket and could get to the Sweet 16.
So great to have Trine and Hope on opposite sides of the bracket, TUAngola.  We can dream . . . while rooting for each other.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on March 06, 2020, 08:12:06 PM
Trine wins opening round game over Benedictine this evening 65-37.  I was not home so wasn't able to catch any of it on video.  Trine with an impressive 1st half leading 31-7 at the break.  Benedictine cut into the lead in the 3rd quarter, but Trine was able to pull back away in the 4th.  Stats show a pretty balanced attack, Steers and Wildman with 14 each, Bieniewicz and Taylor with 11 a piece.  No Shay Herbert in the lineup, so doesn't look like we'll have her for tomorrow night either.  That is a big loss in the starting lineup.  Appears that freshman Sophie Sloneker is taking her place starting and then saving freshman Sam Underhill to spell either Taylor or Sloneker.  Underhill has been a terrific sub this year on the interior, so I imagine Coach Rang wants to still untilize her in that capacity which makes sense.  She does have really good skills, in my mind she should start, even over Herbert, but we don't want to mess with the substitution pattern at this point in the season.  What we miss from Herbert is her ability to hit a 3 every now and then as a big.  Taylor and Underhill are strickly interior players, Taylor is a "bull in a china shop" when she gets the ball inside, Underhill can stroke it from 15 feet if left open.   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 06, 2020, 08:20:15 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on March 06, 2020, 08:12:06 PM
Trine wins opening round game over Benedictine this evening 65-37.  I was not home so wasn't able to catch any of it on video.  Trine with an impressive 1st half leading 31-7 at the break.  Benedictine cut into the lead in the 3rd quarter, but Trine was able to pull back away in the 4th.  Stats show a pretty balanced attack, Steers and Wildman with 14 each, Bieniewicz and Taylor with 11 a piece.  No Shay Herbert in the lineup, so doesn't look like we'll have her for tomorrow night either.  That is a big loss in the starting lineup.  Appears that freshman Sophie Sloneker is taking her place starting and then saving freshman Sam Underhill to spell either Taylor or Sloneker.  Underhill has been a terrific sub this year on the interior, so I imagine Coach Rang wants to still untilize her in that capacity which makes sense.  She does have really good skills, in my mind she should start, even over Herbert, but we don't want to mess with the substitution pattern at this point in the season.  What we miss from Herbert is her ability to hit a 3 every now and then as a big.  Taylor and Underhill are strickly interior players, Taylor is a "bull in a china shop" when she gets the ball inside, Underhill can stroke it from 15 feet if left open.   

Great win for Trine, congrats!   Go MIAA!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on March 06, 2020, 08:34:30 PM
Love seeing Trine roll their way to a win. They were pretty discounted nationally because of their record. When if they don't play Hope 3 times, but play, say, Benedictine 3 times, good chance Trine is ranked in the teens all year.

Trine might have an easier 2nd round opponent than expected.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on March 06, 2020, 09:39:43 PM
Last 4 games.
A LOT of this is opportunity and quality of shot for sure, but Morehouse is averaging 1.32 pts per shot from the floor.
1.21 - Baguley
1.10 - Moorman
1.07 - Thomas
1.06 - Schooneveld
0.67 - Barnes
0.59 - DeSmit
0.57 - Newman
0.42 - Tolbert
0.35 - Voskuil
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on March 06, 2020, 09:42:40 PM
I may have input data from the box scores wrong, but over the past 4 games, Schooneveld does not have a turnover. Awesome.

TOs per 40min:
5.25 - Tolbert
4.85 - Barnes
4.50 - Voskuil
2.91 - Baguley
2.86 - Thomas
2.86 - DeSmit
2.39 - Moorman
1.80 - Newman
1.74 - Morehouse
0.00 - Schooneveld
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 06, 2020, 09:48:42 PM
Wow!!! Hope down 6-2 very quickly, but then came back to lead 13-8 after Q1. Hope then held Grove City to 2-34 from the field the rest of the game.  Hope did not shoot well, just 35% from the floor but won 69-18. Quick turnaround and a much tougher matchup tomorrow versus IWU.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 06, 2020, 10:34:48 PM
Another improbable statistic . . . 45 of Hope's 69 points tonight came from its bench. As each new wave of players entered, Hope tonight seemed to lose nothing. If you had to lose top scorer Sydney Mueller to injury this season, it sure helps to have that kind of depth, effort, and well-coached team defense.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on March 06, 2020, 10:48:30 PM
If the chalk keeps winning, Massey gives Hope 43.42% chance of winning the title. That grows to 49.15% if we host the 3rd/4th rounds.

How does an undefeated Hope vs Baldwin Wallace sound?.....
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on March 07, 2020, 12:05:03 AM
Quote from: scottiedawg on March 06, 2020, 10:48:30 PM
How does an undefeated Hope vs Baldwin Wallace sound?.....
Please, don't even joke about that. I still have nightmares of the Calvin students taunts.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 07, 2020, 08:50:26 AM
IWU @ Hope comparison:

2 common opponents:

Calvin
IWU 1 - 0 (60-44)
Hope 3 - 0 (64 - 38, 74- 50, 78 - 46)

North Park
IWU 1 - 1 (82 - 51, 64 - 77)
Hope 1 - 0 (62 - 45)



Offense     % 2pt   % 3pt      % FT
IWU     47.2   33.9      65.1
Hope     49.8   29.8      67.9
------             
Defense     % 2pt   % 3pt     
IWU     45.8   29.5     
Hope     32.4   25.8     
------             
Rebounding     Team   Opp      Margin
IWU     39.7   38      1.7
Hope     41.9   31      10.9
------             
Scoring     Team   Opp      Margin
IWU     74.6   64.8      9.8
Hope     75.8   41.3      34.5
------             
3 point shooting     Made/game        
IWU     6.9        
Hope     6.4        
------             
Ball Control     Stl/game   TO/Game      OppTO/Game
IWU     11   16.1      20.4
Hope     15.7   14.4      25.8
------             
Ball Control     Asst/game   A/TO      Blks/game
IWU     16.4   1.02      4.1
Hope     15   1.04      4.3
------             
    vRRO   In-Div SOS      Massey Predicts
IWU     3- 6   0.582      56
Hope     6 - 0   0.557      75
            
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 07, 2020, 03:44:32 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on March 06, 2020, 08:34:30 PM
Love seeing Trine roll their way to a win. They were pretty discounted nationally because of their record. When if they don't play Hope 3 times, but play, say, Benedictine 3 times, good chance Trine is ranked in the teens all year.

Trine might have an easier 2nd round opponent than expected.

Rather than the two extremes, we would learn so much more if they played Baldwin Wallace three times.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Jameswys on March 07, 2020, 04:54:43 PM
Albion lost to Trine three times, Hope twice and Texas-Dallas once for their 6 losses this year. All three teams have advanced to the second round. I would have liked to see them make the tournament, but I fully understand why a team that finished with 6 losses and third in their league can't make it. It would have been interesting to see how good they actually are.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on March 07, 2020, 05:03:25 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 07, 2020, 03:44:32 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on March 06, 2020, 08:34:30 PM
Love seeing Trine roll their way to a win. They were pretty discounted nationally because of their record. When if they don't play Hope 3 times, but play, say, Benedictine 3 times, good chance Trine is ranked in the teens all year.

Trine might have an easier 2nd round opponent than expected.

Rather than the two extremes, we would learn so much more if they played Baldwin Wallace three times.

Is Benedictine that much of an extreme? Probably right around 50th percentile of tourney teams??
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on March 07, 2020, 05:08:41 PM
Or better yet, instead of playing Hope 3 times, have them play a BAD team 3 times, get 3 auto wins. 24-2, and probably still a better SOS than Transylvania, who got to host.  25-2 against a poor slate of opponents gets your much farther than 21-6 against a much stronger slate.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 07, 2020, 05:13:04 PM
Transy got to host because of geography, so I'm not sure that's a good measure.

Is Benedictine 50th percentile among tourney teams? As a Pool C from a below-average conference? I'm guessing not.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on March 07, 2020, 05:23:55 PM
You're right, Transy hosting is not a fair comparison.

I think using Massey to judge the strength of teams in the field is fair (not fair to use Massey as a basis for selection or non-selection of course).

But mid 45's Massey is right around 32nd-34th among teams in the field. Lotta Pool A's are 100+.

I could be dead wrong, but I strongly feel like the quality of opponent tells you way more than the binary W/L.

In an extreme example, I wonder if a team that goes 26-0 vs some team in the 400s is regarded better than a team that plays Hope 26 times, loses 26 times, all by less than 10 points. Perhaps a stupid hypothetical, but I'd absolutely believe the 0-26 team is better.

Trine played a top 30 schedule (both in NCAA and Massey). Transylvania played a schedule outside the top 130 (both in NCAA and Massey).  I don't think the 0.150 diff in Win% offsets that.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 07, 2020, 05:26:17 PM
To be sure, we are in agreement.

I would still learn more from a couple more Trine-Baldwin Wallace games than I would from any Trine-Benedictine games.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on March 07, 2020, 05:30:09 PM
Oh absolutely, perhaps I glazed over our agreement to make a different point. BW definitely better than Benedictine, ergo we'd learn way more about Trine. Absolutely.


This is probably a bridge too far, but I'd love for there to be some computerized ranking of all teams (using NCAA selection criteria), and any win against a team say 200th+ doesn't count in your W/L%. Maybe that threshold is 150, maybe it's 250, etc. But those wins should mean nothing.

NCAA SOS and RRO help this a lot, but win% is still a primary criteria. I think it gets overweighted.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 07, 2020, 09:26:48 PM
Wow (same comment as last night but a completely different reason). Hope trails most of the game and is outplayed for a good 38 minutes, but pulls out a HUGE win!  Down 67-58 with 4:30 to play, Hope closed the game on a 14-2 run, with Kenedy Schoonveld blocking a last second 3 to finish the game.  IWU had 6 turnovers in that stretch, 3of them steals by Voskuilfinal score

Hope 72
IWU 69

Schooveld with 20 (including 9 in the 4th)  Voskuil with 16

Sosa for IWU with 32 - a definite AA player from my view
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 07, 2020, 09:48:29 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 07, 2020, 09:26:48 PM
Wow (same comment as last night but a completely different reason). Hope trails most of the game and is outplayed for a good 38 minutes, but pulls out a HUGE win!  Down 67-58 with 4:30 to play, Hope closed the game on a 14-2 run, with Kenedy Schoonveld blocking a last second 3 to finish the game.  IWU had 6 turnovers in that stretch, 3of them steals by Voskuilfinal score

Hope 72
IWU 69

Schooveld with 20 (including 9 in the 4th)  Voskuil with 16

Sosa for IWU with 32 - a definite AA player from my view

Nah - unfortunately only about 32 minutes!  Hope went up 13-4 early, then won the final 4+ minutes; in between IWU was clearly the better team tonite.  Unfortunately not ENOUGH better to overcome those final minutes. :'(

Sorry I couldn't be there - you deserved to have the opportunity to gloat like I tried not to in 2012! ;D  From what I could tell on the broadcast it looked to be almost as compelling a game.

I sense that Sosa will probably not be AA this year (MAYBE 4th team), but she is coming on so much lately, she might be a national POY candidate next year.  It seems like every game she sets a new personal high!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 07, 2020, 09:51:51 PM
Wow, indeed, FDF. Incredible finish--so reminiscent of the 2012 IWU men's win at #1 Hope--with most of the 2007 fans on their feet and a deafening to-the-wire finish . . . this time with victory pulled by Hope from the jaws of defeat. Does NCAA DII/DIII women's basketball get any better than that, anywhere? Kudos to both teams for leaving it all on the floor, and to Hope for believing in themselves when many of us had assumed defeat.

Next up is Hope vs. B-W and Loras vs. WI Oshkosh. Given Hope's record, attendance/revenue, and central location (within 325 miles of the other 3 schools, while B-W is more than 500 miles from Loras and Oshkosh), Hope fans can surely look forward to one or two more home games.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on March 07, 2020, 09:56:17 PM
Congrats on Hope and Trine advancing to the Sweet 16!

I watched all of the Hope game on video...now that was a ballgame!  Hope with a terrific last half of the 4th quarter to pull out the win.  IWU is very talented.  Sosa is highly skilled and their whole team is scrappy.

Now, unfortunately I couldn't watch the Trine game because the UWW video feed was pathetic.  It buffered and froze most of the night.  I gave up and followed the game on live stats.  I thought maybe it's my laptop?  But I pulled up several D3 games and all the video feeds worked fine, so not sure why UWW's feed was so bad.  Tied at half with Redlands, but Trine pulled away in the second and won 69-49.  It was nice not having to play UWW on their home court so have Redlands to thank for that.  Looking at the stats:  Senior Katy Steers with a magnificent game, 23 pts, 8 reb, 4 ast.  Wildman with 15 pts, Taylor with 10 pts and 10 reb and Bieniewicz with 8 pts.   As expected, Shay Herbert did not play.  Freshman Sophie Sloneker had to play a lot of minutes this weekend and did well, tonight she had 5 pts and 4 reb in 30 min.

We'll see where Hope and Trine play next.  Obviously Hope will get the next round at home and play Baldwin Wallace, who defeated Chicago tonight.  Trine will play NESCAC power Bowdoin in the next round.  Bowdoin is a terrific team, they've only lost to Tufts and Amherst in the regular season, and avenged both of those losses by beating both in their conference tournament.     
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on March 07, 2020, 09:57:49 PM
I watched a lot of the 2nd half of the Trine game; no streaming issues.

Are 3 teams flying in the Bowdoin, Trine, Whitman, Oglethorpe pod, regardless of who hosts?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on March 07, 2020, 10:05:11 PM
TuAngola, I had the same issue with the feed for yesterday's Trine game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: monsoon on March 07, 2020, 10:08:10 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on March 07, 2020, 09:57:49 PM
I watched a lot of the 2nd half of the Trine game; no streaming issues.

Are 3 teams flying in the Bowdoin, Trine, Whitman, Oglethorpe pod, regardless of who hosts?

Yes. Trine-Oglethorpe (in Atlanta) is more than 500 miles. Bowdoin is in Maine and Whitman is out in Washington. Definitely 3 flights.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on March 07, 2020, 10:12:21 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg link=topic=4515.msg1982750#ms  ::)g1982750 date=1583636269
I watched a lot of the 2nd half of the Trine game; no streaming issues.

Are 3 teams flying in the Bowdoin, Trine, Whitman, Oglethorpe pod, regardless of who hosts?

It only makes sense to play next weekend in Angola since we're in the middle, right?  ::)  Talk about geographical extremes:  Brunswick Maine, Atlanta, and Walla Walla Washington.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: monsoon on March 07, 2020, 10:17:59 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on March 07, 2020, 10:12:21 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg link=topic=4515.msg1982750#ms  ::)g1982750 date=1583636269
I watched a lot of the 2nd half of the Trine game; no streaming issues.

Are 3 teams flying in the Bowdoin, Trine, Whitman, Oglethorpe pod, regardless of who hosts?

It only makes sense to play next weekend in Angola since we're in the middle, right?  Talk about geographical extremes:  Brunswick Maine, Atlanta, and Walla Walla Washington.

Amherst, George Fox, Mary Hardin-Baylor, and Christopher Newport will be 3 flights as well.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 08, 2020, 10:54:48 AM
I believe the Sweet 16 has 6 flights guaranteed in the other sectionals, Hope is probably going to host.

1 flight to Loras
1 flight to Oshkosh
2 flights to BW
zero flights to Hope
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on March 08, 2020, 12:08:40 PM
The Men's Sweet 16 bracket is updated.  Appears that each of the 8 games next Friday has its own host.  I thought they put each quadrant into 1 site?  Is that how the women's bracket will be?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 08, 2020, 12:16:36 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on March 08, 2020, 12:08:40 PM
The Men's Sweet 16 bracket is updated.  Appears that each of the 8 games next Friday has its own host.  I thought they put each quadrant into 1 site?  Is that how the women's bracket will be?

Men's tournament is very different this year, in order to have the championship game in Atlanta the same weekend as the D1 Final Four.  So there are 8 site this coming weekend (4 on Fri, 4 on Sat) each with a single game.  The 8 winners will then go to Ft Wayne the following weekend to play Elite 8, and semi final games (4 games on Fri, 2 games on Sat) and then a two week wait for the championship game.

Women will follow the traditional setup - 4 region sites hosting 3 games (2 Fri, 1 Sat).  The four winners then advance to Columbus for the semi's and championship.   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 08, 2020, 12:46:51 PM
Hope indeed is hosting. Updated bracket: https://www.d3hoops.com/playoffs/women/2020/bracket

Three of the top six Massey Ratings teams in the Hope sectional, with Hope (#1 nationally) facing B-W (#3 nationally): https://www.masseyratings.com/cbw/ncaa-d3/ratings

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on March 08, 2020, 12:54:34 PM
Quote from: pointlem on March 08, 2020, 12:46:51 PM
Hope indeed is hosting. Updated bracket: https://www.d3hoops.com/playoffs/women/2020/bracket

Trine heading to Brunswick ME to play Bowdoin.  NESCAC gets to host 3 or the 4 quadrants (Tufts and Amherst being the other sitess).  Congrats to Hope on being able to host.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 08, 2020, 11:23:05 PM
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What an opening weekend of the NCAA tournaments? Upsets a plenty. Gyms closed to fans. Incredible finishes. And so much more. Sunday night on Hoopsville we tried to cover it all.

The show started with extensive information on decisions surrounding COVID-19. We discussed decisions by Johns Hopkins and Amherst to close their doors to fans for the first weekend's games. We also had reactions and statements on the choice to return to Amherst this coming weekend for the Sectionals in women's basketball and the college's decision to, once again, ban fans from attending.

We also talked about the incredible stories coming out of the tournament of how teams are moving on and how seasons came to a sudden and emotional finish. 

Guests Schedule (order subject to change):
- Pat Coleman, Editor-in-Chief, D3hoops.com
- Todd Raridon, No. 11 North Central (Ill.) men's coach
- Jackson Meshanic (sophomore) & Stefan Thompson (coach), Hobart men's team (Frank Rossi interviews)
- Greg Dunne, No. 18 Brockport men's coach
- Andy Rang, No. 23 Trine women's coach
- Pat Manning, Williams women's coach
- Bob Quillman & Ryan Scott

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Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 09, 2020, 04:55:07 PM
5pm game Friday - Loras vs UWO - quick comparison:

These two played each other in the 2nd game of this season back in November - a Loras win 88-83 in OT @ Loras



Offense     % 2pt   % 3pt      % FT
Loras     51.1   31.8      75.3
UWO     48.6   32.9      70.8
------             
Defense     % 2pt   % 3pt     
Loras     47.1   32.1     
UWO     42.5   29.3     
------             
Rebounding     Team   Opp      Margin
Loras     34.3   30.2      4.1
UWO     34.9   34.4      0.5
------             
Scoring     Team   Opp      Margin
Loras     79.1   63.1      16
UWO     67.5   57.8      9.7
------             
3 point shooting     Made/game        
Loras     6.8        
UWO     7.3        
------             
Ball Control     Stl/game   TO/Game      OppTO/Game
Loras     14.2   17      24.3
UWO     7.4   11.9      14.4
------             
Ball Control     Asst/game   A/TO      Blks/game
Loras     13.6   0.8      3
UWO     12.7   1.07      3
------             
    vRRO   In-Div SOS      Massey Predicts
Loras     6 - 2    0.556      70
UWO     4 - 7   0.578      64
            
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 09, 2020, 04:58:03 PM
7pm game Friday - B-W @ Hope - quick comparison:

B-W beat Trine 58-46 (@ B-W) back on Dec 18



Offense     % 2pt   % 3pt      % FT
B-W     46.8   34.6      77.1
Hope     49.8   29.8      67.8
------             
Defense     % 2pt   % 3pt     
B-W     41   27.6     
Hope     33   26.2     
------             
Rebounding     Team   Opp      Margin
B-W     37.3   33.8      3.5
Hope     41.7   31      10.7
------             
Scoring     Team   Opp      Margin
B-W     71.5   55.2      16.3
Hope     75.7   42.3      33.4
------             
3 point shooting     Made/game        
B-W     8.6        
Hope     6.4        
------             
Ball Control     Stl/game   TO/Game      OppTO/Game
B-W     10   13.4      17.3
Hope     15.5   14.3      25.5
------             
Ball Control     Asst/game   A/TO      Blks/game
B-W     12.8   0.96      3.1
Hope     15.1   1.06      4.3
------             
    vRRO   In-Div SOS      Massey Predicts
B-W     6 - 2   0.579      53
Hope     6 - 0   0.557      62
            

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on March 10, 2020, 05:08:11 PM
Both Amherst and Tufts have announced that they are not allowing fans to this weekends Sweet 16 games because of the COVIS 19 virus, only players and staff.  From what I understand its an administration decision and not a basketball decision.  This is not fair to those parents of the girls to not be able to watch the game live in person.  These girls have dreamed about playing and advancing in the NCAA tournament and to not have your loved ones there is a travesty.  I believe the right thing for the NCAA D3 committee to do is to move these games from Amherst and Tufts to a site that will allow spectators.  I even think the host teams would rather play at a site with fans rather than play at home to an empty gym.  Has there been any announcement from the Hope administration on their take on this?  I get the seriousness of the situation.  But unless I am told by the Government that it's mandatory to stay home I am not going to become a hermit.  You got to keep on living life. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 10, 2020, 05:12:34 PM
As of now the Hope hosted games will be the only ones with fans in attendance - Bowdoin just announced they will also not allow fans to attend. Trine fans be aware!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: monsoon on March 10, 2020, 05:30:43 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 10, 2020, 05:12:34 PM
As of now the Hope hosted games will be the only ones with fans in attendance - Bowdoin just announced they will also nit allow dans to attend. Trine fans be aware!!!

As long as your name's not Dan, you're good to go!  ;)

Darn autocorrect.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 10, 2020, 05:34:20 PM
Ohio governor DeWine says ""For indoor events, we are asking for no events with spectators other than the athletes, parents and others essential to the game. Right now, outdoor events can continue." With the women's final weekend slated for Columbus, perhaps Hope could (win or lose this weekend) welcome back the DIII women's semis and national championship?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 10, 2020, 05:35:59 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 10, 2020, 05:12:34 PM
As of now the Hope hosted games will be the only ones with fans in attendance - Bowdoin just announced they will also nit allow dans to attend. Trine fans be aware!!!

My fingers are crossed and I hope they don't, but I imagine there must be enormous pressure on Hope to fold like the rest of them.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 10, 2020, 05:42:32 PM
Quote from: monsoon on March 10, 2020, 05:30:43 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 10, 2020, 05:12:34 PM
As of now the Hope hosted games will be the only ones with fans in attendance - Bowdoin just announced they will also nit allow dans to attend. Trine fans be aware!!!

As long as your name's not Dan, you're good to go!  ;)

Darn autocorrect.

Not auto-correct - just fat fingers on my phone :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 10, 2020, 05:45:30 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 10, 2020, 05:35:59 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 10, 2020, 05:12:34 PM
As of now the Hope hosted games will be the only ones with fans in attendance - Bowdoin just announced they will also nit allow dans to attend. Trine fans be aware!!!

My fingers are crossed and I hope they don't, but I imagine there must be enormous pressure on Hope to fold like the rest of them.

Not so sure there is given that those other 3 hosts are in one region of the country more than 500 miles from Hope.  President Scogin posted this video today (an excellent take from my point of view):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5HfBN2EQt0
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 10, 2020, 05:50:51 PM
Trine @ Bowdoin (in an empty gym) quick comparison:



Offense     % 2pt   % 3pt      % FT
Trine     45.9   33.8      67.3
Bowdoin     51.5   37.3      73.3
------             
Defense     % 2pt   % 3pt     
Trine     34   26.9     
Bowdoin     37.1   28.4     
------             
Rebounding     Team   Opp      Margin
Trine     38.1   33.9      4.2
Bowdoin     44.5   30.3      14.2
------             
Scoring     Team   Opp      Margin
Trine     66.8   46.2      20.6
Bowdoin     78.3   53.6      24.7
------             
3 point shooting     Made/game        
Trine     6.9        
Bowdoin     8.1        
------             
Ball Control     Stl/game   TO/Game      OppTO/Game
Trine     10.1   13.4      19.7
Bowdoin     10.3   16      17.8
------             
Ball Control     Asst/game   A/TO      Blks/game
Trine     12.9   0.96      3.5
Bowdoin     15.8   0.99      3.1
------             
    vRRO   In-Div SOS      Massey Predicts
Trine     2 - 5   0.575      59
Bowdoin     3 - 2   0.592      65
            

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on March 10, 2020, 07:11:28 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 10, 2020, 05:12:34 PM
As of now the Hope hosted games will be the only ones with fans in attendance - Bowdoin just announced they will also not allow fans to attend. Trine fans be aware!!!

Thanks for the updated announcement about the Bowdoin regional FDF.  I knew that of this morning the games at Bowdoin were being played as usual with fans attending.  So now 3 of the 4 regions are not permitting parents, family and fans to attend. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 10, 2020, 10:34:04 PM
Quote from: pointlem on March 10, 2020, 05:34:20 PM
Ohio governor DeWine says ""For indoor events, we are asking for no events with spectators other than the athletes, parents and others essential to the game. Right now, outdoor events can continue." With the women's final weekend slated for Columbus, perhaps Hope could (win or lose this weekend) welcome back the DIII women's semis and national championship?

As I understand it to those who I talked to in Ohio ... this was recommendations from the governor, not mandate or guidelines.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 11, 2020, 07:11:14 PM
Hope now changing to restricted attendance (matching the NCAA announced plan). Also change to game time for the 1st game. Details:

https://athletics.hope.edu/sports/wbkb/2019-20/releases/20200311rera85
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on March 11, 2020, 09:00:46 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 11, 2020, 07:11:14 PM
Hope now changing to restricted attendance (matching the NCAA announced plan). Also change to game time for the 1st game. Details:

https://athletics.hope.edu/sports/wbkb/2019-20/releases/20200311rera85
I am so, so disappointed. all year I've been following the Hope College women's basketball team. it's been so exciting watching them go through the strait run. It's been such a great build-up, a build up all the way to... Nothing.

Imagine how it will feel to whoever wins the National Championship! To win the biggest game of your lives in front of an empty gym. It's not going to feel like you won anything special.

I put it like this to someone earlier today... Every boy grew up playing baseball in the yard imagining that it's the bottom of the ninth, two-out, bases are loaded and you are up to bat! Now, when you did that did you picture an empty stadium or a packed ballpark full of fans just going absolutely crazy!

To make it even worse, the CoronaVirus is being blown WAY out of proportion. People are acting like it is the bubonic plague or the Spanish flu. In reality, it isn't much worse than the average flu.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 11, 2020, 09:12:15 PM
#marchsadness
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 11, 2020, 09:28:54 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on March 11, 2020, 09:00:46 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 11, 2020, 07:11:14 PM
Hope now changing to restricted attendance (matching the NCAA announced plan). Also change to game time for the 1st game. Details:

https://athletics.hope.edu/sports/wbkb/2019-20/releases/20200311rera85
I am so, so disappointed. all year I've been following the Hope College women's basketball team. it's been so exciting watching them go through the strait run. It's been such a great build-up, a build up all the way to... Nothing.

Imagine how it will feel to whoever wins the National Championship! To win the biggest game of your lives in front of an empty gym. It's not going to feel like you won anything special.

I put it like this to someone earlier today... Every boy grew up playing baseball in the yard imagining that it's the bottom of the ninth, two-out, bases are loaded and you are up to bat! Now, when you did that did you picture an empty stadium or a packed ballpark full of fans just going absolutely crazy!

To make it even worse, the CoronaVirus is being blown WAY out of proportion. People are acting like it is the bubonic plague or the Spanish flu. In reality, it isn't much worse than the average flu.

I completely understand how disappointing this is for the fan base, and feels like we are being robbed of something special. I also agree we are probably being over-cautious.

But I think it's a bit over the top to think the players on the winning team won't feel like they won something special.  Their families will be there and they will be national champions!!  That won't change.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 11, 2020, 10:10:02 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 11, 2020, 09:28:54 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on March 11, 2020, 09:00:46 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 11, 2020, 07:11:14 PM
Hope now changing to restricted attendance (matching the NCAA announced plan). Also change to game time for the 1st game. Details:

https://athletics.hope.edu/sports/wbkb/2019-20/releases/20200311rera85
I am so, so disappointed. all year I've been following the Hope College women's basketball team. it's been so exciting watching them go through the strait run. It's been such a great build-up, a build up all the way to... Nothing.

Imagine how it will feel to whoever wins the National Championship! To win the biggest game of your lives in front of an empty gym. It's not going to feel like you won anything special.

I put it like this to someone earlier today... Every boy grew up playing baseball in the yard imagining that it's the bottom of the ninth, two-out, bases are loaded and you are up to bat! Now, when you did that did you picture an empty stadium or a packed ballpark full of fans just going absolutely crazy!

To make it even worse, the CoronaVirus is being blown WAY out of proportion. People are acting like it is the bubonic plague or the Spanish flu. In reality, it isn't much worse than the average flu.

I completely understand how disappointing this is for the fan base, and feels like we are being robbed of something special. I also agree we are probably being over-cautious.

But I think it's a bit over the top to think the players on the winning team won't feel like they won something special.  Their families will be there and they will be national champions!!  That won't change.

It is WAY too early to say that Covid-19 is being blown way out of proportion and is no worse than the average flu.  I certainly hope that it is not the bubonic plague (which killed an estimated one-third of the European population) or the "Spanish" flu (which in 1918 and 19 killed more people than WWI), but we just don't know for sure yet.  The latest report I saw for Italy is that the mortality rate is 6.3% of those infected. :o  Despite what some are saying, it IS almost certainly worse than the 'annual flu'.

I, too, suspect we are being overly-cautious (and at 71, I'm in the 'death zone' for this virus! :P), but in situations like this overly cautious beats the hell out of underly cautious!  Today virtually all (if not all) public 4-year colleges in Michigan went to on-line only classes.  My younger son is teaching his first semester at Washtenaw CC and says he is being trained on videotaping his lectures - he suspects they will soon go also on-line only.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on March 11, 2020, 10:19:04 PM
https://twitter.com/cmclymer/status/1237923007361941507?s=21
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 11, 2020, 11:37:01 PM
We're about 3 weeks behind Italy and a much larger country.  We're not overreacting to anything.

2 weeks ago: Italy had 322 confirmed cases of the coronavirus
1 week ago: 2,502 
Today: 10,149 

Also remember, we aren't testing as many people as thoroughly.......because, reasons.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 11, 2020, 11:45:50 PM
Firmly in the 'not overreacting' camp.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 11, 2020, 11:57:38 PM
Quote from: sac on March 11, 2020, 11:37:01 PM
We're about 3 weeks behind Italy and a much larger country.  We're not overreacting to anything.

2 weeks ago: Italy had 322 confirmed cases of the coronavirus
1 week ago: 2,502 
Today: 10,149 

Also remember, we aren't testing as many people as thoroughly.......because, reasons.

OH we are certainly going to have a lot of people who are going to test positive - and many who have probably already have been infected and are now over it. The bug has been around for quite a long time - well before people realized it (six weeks prior to even been spotted in Washington State). And like the flu (which ran through my region like a chain saw back in January along with strep throat) and cold ... it is going to infect a lot of people. That is simply unavoidable at this point. Whether games are played or not.

I'd like to see games still played. Limited crowds, I guess. And we move on. We survived a number of other bugs that are still around today without having to shut down campuses and games (H1N1, SARs, MERS, swine flu, etc.) ... they had their impacts to be sure (I remember H1N1 well; my son was born in the middle of it). We just didn't panic during them.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 12, 2020, 07:55:07 AM

I've come down thinking many individuals are overestimating their own individual danger, but we're probably taking appropriate corporate actions to protect the most vulnerable.  I saw a 30ish woman wearing a full-on ventilator mask (the kind you might wear if you expected to be tear-gassed) at the walmart yesterday - that's an overreaction.  Preemptively working to keep our medical system from being overloaded with sick people, probably the right call.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 12, 2020, 09:01:26 AM
What we DO know is that the rate of new infections diagnosed in China has been falling since mid February and has started steadily falling more recently in South Korea.  Daily diagnosis rates are still increasing in Italy, US and other places that were infected later than China.

We also know that ANY discussion of mortality rates is pure speculation for the simple reason that the denominator in the rate equation - how many people have actually been infected - is completely unknown.  Lack of tests, mild or undetectable cases where medical attention is never sought and so forth make it likely that the denominator is far larger than the ability to accurately report, which of course would make the actual mortality rate much lower.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on March 12, 2020, 09:17:18 AM
My biggest worry about overreactions like this and closing schools is the economic impact. I work in a factory making floor cleaners. we are approaching the busiest time of the year for me because schools order their machines in the first half of the summer so that they have them at the next school year. With all this uncertainty my job is going to be greatly impacted. What about all the people who work at the arenas? what about the people who work at the television networks that are going to have that work because the NBA has canceled their games? what about the janitors and lunchroom workers at the schools that are closing? What about all the other people we're going to be negatively affected financially all because we are panicking over something that is not near as bad as it is being portrayed? Need I remind everyone that there have been only a thousand cases and a country of 330 million people? That that comes out to 20 cases per state and at less than one death per state? I mean, we've never closed anything down in this fashion for the flu and that killed 12,000 to 14,000 people every year.

Should there be some precautions taken? Absolutely. Virtually all the severe cases have been to people who are advanced in years. Maybe recommended that people who are above a certain age or have weakened immune systems stay away From large crowds. However, the rest of us are still going to go to work and we're still going to go grocery shopping oh, so it's not like this is going to stop spreading if we say don't go to a basketball game Orem movie theater. Instead all we're doing is causing financial hardships and Hysteria.


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jamtod on March 12, 2020, 09:41:25 AM
Quote from: Dutchfan on March 12, 2020, 09:17:18 AM
My biggest worry about overreactions like this and closing schools is the economic impact. I work in a factory making floor cleaners. we are approaching the busiest time of the year for me because schools order their machines in the first half of the summer so that they have them at the next school year. With all this uncertainty my job is going to be greatly impacted. What about all the people who work at the arenas? what about the people who work at the television networks that are going to have that work because the NBA has canceled their games? what about the janitors and lunchroom workers at the schools that are closing? What about all the other people we're going to be negatively affected financially all because we are panicking over something that is not near as bad as it is being portrayed? Need I remind everyone that there have been only a thousand cases and a country of 330 million people? That that comes out to 20 cases per state and at less than one death per state? I mean, we've never closed anything down in this fashion for the flu and that killed 12,000 to 14,000 people every year.

Should there be some precautions taken? Absolutely. Virtually all the severe cases have been to people who are advanced in years. Maybe recommended that people who are above a certain age or have weakened immune systems stay away From large crowds. However, the rest of us are still going to go to work and we're still going to go grocery shopping oh, so it's not like this is going to stop spreading if we say don't go to a basketball game Orem movie theater. Instead all we're doing is causing financial hardships and Hysteria.

The concerns about the negative economic impact (and especially the impact that will have on health/death) is valid. But as far as the precautions and containment, I suggest you find some valid sources that talk about the current situation in Italy or look at some of the modeling for growth and spread of this without serious action before you blather on further.

An interesting mathematical/modeling approach to the situation: https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HOPEful on March 12, 2020, 10:57:42 AM
Quote from: jamtod on March 12, 2020, 09:41:25 AM
The concerns about the negative economic impact (and especially the impact that will have on health/death) is valid. But as far as the precautions and containment, I suggest you find some valid sources that talk about the current situation in Italy or look at some of the modeling for growth and spread of this without serious action before you blather on further.

An interesting mathematical/modeling approach to the situation: https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca

I agree. At this point, I don't see how any informed, rationale person that respects human life, could still be in the "this is an over-reaction" camp.

I am a sports fanatic. The idea of empty stadiums sickens me. The idea of cancelled games and even seasons makes me cringe. But at this point, not doing so is irresponsible and selfish, prioritizing money and entertainment and personal freedoms over human life. "Extreme" measures are required, not to STOP the spread, but slow the spread down enough that our medical facilities are best equipped WHEN (not if) the virus hits. It's about "flattening the curve" and doing everything we can to prevent situations where overwhelmed healthcare personnel have to decide who does and doesn't get life saving respiratory equipment.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on March 12, 2020, 11:04:33 AM
Ryan said it well. The vast majority of people have little risk, even if they contract COVID-19.

But I'm not going to let the random luxury of my age + health demographic allow me to be cavalier with the well being of those less fortunate.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on March 12, 2020, 05:05:09 PM
Just in...the NCAA has canceled all remaining winter championships which includes the Womens NCAA Division III Basketball Championship.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on March 12, 2020, 05:16:44 PM
Congratulations on an outstanding season to both the Hope and Trine women's basketball teams.  It's disappointing that the rest of the tournament won't be played but completely understandable due to the circumstances of the COVID-19 pandemic.  Trine players and staff were already in Brunswick ME and now have to fly back home.

Both teams had wins to end the season.  No one has beaten you in the tournament!  So go ahead and celebrate your accomplishments and cut down the nets at your gyms!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on March 12, 2020, 05:26:12 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on March 01, 2020, 01:53:34 PM
The last seven champions have been undefeated so...

Congratulations to the 2020 National Champion Hope College Flying Dutch!

Seriously, it's been a really special season already.
I second your motion, Gordon. All in favor say aye?

But seriously, though not the ending we hoped, what a great season for the Hope women--ending season ranked #1 and undefeated--after treating their fans to so much joy.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 12, 2020, 05:29:03 PM
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And with that, the 2019-20 seasons have come to a sudden end.

What a week it has been in college basketball. Exactly a week ago, as we hit the air, the first signs that COVID-19 was going to impact the NCAA Tournaments was seen. Since then, it has been a whirlwind.  

Tonight on Hoopsville, we try and make sense of one of the stranger finishes in history for NCAA events. What started with isolated closings of gyms for games ends a week later in all games being called off through the rest of the academic year.

We will chat with those who were preparing for games on Friday and hear their reactions to the seasons coming to a close so quickly.

Guests Schedule (order subject to change):
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- John Krikorian, Christopher Newport men's coach
- Cheri Harrer, No. 9 Baldwin Wallace women's coach

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Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 13, 2020, 06:12:35 PM
Hope's Coach Morehouse was a surprise call-in guest near the end of yesterday's Hoopsville show, starting at 1:51:50.  Dave did an excellent interview and Coach Mo had some interesting comments about how the news unfolded, powerful and emotional comments about the reaction of the players and insightful views about the broader perspective.  Respect to both.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 13, 2020, 06:28:38 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 13, 2020, 06:12:35 PM
Hope's Coach Morehouse was a surprise call-in guest near the end of yesterday's Hoopsville show, starting at 1:51:50.  Dave did an excellent interview and Coach Mo had some interesting comments about how the news unfolded, powerful and emotional comments about the reaction of the players and insightful views about the broader perspective.  Respect to both.

Yeah ... to say he was a surprised guest would be an understatement, but it bookended the show perfectly (our first guest was a bit of a surprised; threw the idea out to him only thirty minutes prior not expecting a reply so quickly). Brian contacted me during Coach Harrer's interview ... I debated if I still wanted to keep the show going (honestly, I was exhausted and even doing the show had been a challenge), but figured I don't get guys like Brian asking if I want to have them on in the middle of a show all that often ...

Incredible interview full of such great insight into all of it. I really appreciate him respecting what we do enough to ask if he could join us to talk.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 17, 2020, 05:59:40 AM
The Hope Flying Dutch finished undefeated and ranked #1.  Maybe not national champs but I hope they put up a banner of some sort in DeVos Fieldhouse to recognize and remember this team through the years.

The Dutch will return 94% of scoring, 92% rebounding and 90% of minutes including the top 9 of their rotation.  I feel badly for seniors Arika Tolbert and Kayla Russell but the outstanding junior class should get another crack at it next season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HOPEful on March 17, 2020, 10:43:24 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 17, 2020, 05:59:40 AM
The Dutch will return 94% of scoring, 92% rebounding and 90% of minutes including the top 9 of their rotation.  I feel badly for seniors Arika Tolbert and Kayla Russell but the outstanding junior class should get another crack at it next season.

Agreed! They should be unanimous pre-season number 1 next season. Tufts graduates their best player in Erica DeCandido. Bowdoin graduates their best player in Maddie Hasson. Amherst loses both Hannah Fox and Madeline Eck. Baldwin Wallace graduates 4 of their 5 starters.

Let's not also forget that Hope remained undefeated and ended the season ranked number 1 dispite losing arguably their best player in Sydney Muller, who should be back next season as well.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 17, 2020, 11:25:08 AM
D3Hoops All-Region selections are out (link below for Great Lakes Region):

Co-Player of the Year:
Kenedy Schoonveld (Hope)

Coach of the Year:
Brian Morehouse (Hope)

1st Team All Region:
Kenedy Schoonveld (Hope)
Olivia Voskuil (Hope)

2nd Team All Region:
Rain Hinton (Albion)

3rd Team All Region:
Tara Bieniewicz (Trine)


https://www.d3hoops.com/awards/all-region/2019-20/great-lakes-women

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on March 17, 2020, 06:19:38 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on March 17, 2020, 10:43:24 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 17, 2020, 05:59:40 AM
The Dutch will return 94% of scoring, 92% rebounding and 90% of minutes including the top 9 of their rotation.  I feel badly for seniors Arika Tolbert and Kayla Russell but the outstanding junior class should get another crack at it next season.

Agreed! They should be unanimous pre-season number 1 next season. Tufts graduates their best player in Erica DeCandido. Bowdoin graduates their best player in Maddie Hasson. Amherst loses both Hannah Fox and Madeline Eck. Baldwin Wallace graduates 4 of their 5 starters.

Let's not also forget that Hope remained undefeated and ended the season ranked number 1 dispite losing arguably their best player in Sydney Muller, who should be back next season as well.

Congratulations to Trine for finishing 13th in the final D3hoops poll, a jump of 10 spots from the last ranking!  Not too shabby for a team that many predicted would slide significantly after heavy graduation losses the year before.

I think we'll still be nipping at Hope's heels next season.  We only lose 1 senior, but she's a good one in Katy Steers.  Heading into next year our recruiting should focus on a couple more "bigs" and we also need to recruit a couple of playmakers at guard.  Katy set the bar high, she was a very feisty defender but also increased her scoring this year too.  If not for Olivia Voskuil at Hope, I think Katy was easily one of the best defenders in the league after her.  I am hoping that Coach Rang maybe slides Rachel Stewart into the PG slot vacated by Katy.  Rachel is also a very tough defender who was first off the bench, usually at the "2" spot.  She just needs to continue to work on her ball handling.  If not Rachel then I think either Kaylee Argyle or Makayla Ardis will get first crack to start at PG next year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HOPEful on March 18, 2020, 10:10:08 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on March 17, 2020, 06:19:38 PM
Congratulations to Trine for finishing 13th in the final D3hoops poll, a jump of 10 spots from the last ranking!  Not too shabby for a team that many predicted would slide significantly after heavy graduation losses the year before.

I think we'll still be nipping at Hope's heels next season.  We only lose 1 senior, but she's a good one in Katy Steers.  Heading into next year our recruiting should focus on a couple more "bigs" and we also need to recruit a couple of playmakers at guard.  Katy set the bar high, she was a very feisty defender but also increased her scoring this year too.  If not for Olivia Voskuil at Hope, I think Katy was easily one of the best defenders in the league after her.  I am hoping that Coach Rang maybe slides Rachel Stewart into the PG slot vacated by Katy.  Rachel is also a very tough defender who was first off the bench, usually at the "2" spot.  She just needs to continue to work on her ball handling.  If not Rachel then I think either Kaylee Argyle or Makayla Ardis will get first crack to start at PG next year.

I completely agree TUAngola! Katy Steers gave Hope fits in the first and third game and really provided a spark every time Hope looked like they were about to pull away. I was really looking forward to seeing what Trine could do against Bowdoin, and am almost more disappointed for their season to end the way it did than Hope. It will be very interesting to see how much Katy's departure affects Tara's offensive production. That being said, losing Brandi and Cassidy seemed decimating loss, and the Thunder instead of having a "rebuilding" year like many predicted, played toe to toe three times with the #1 team in the country that averaged beating their opponents by a score of 75-42. So with that, I'm going to go ahead and assume Trine will be very good again next year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 19, 2020, 11:55:07 AM
WBCA awards are out. 

Kenedy Schoonveld is a 1st team All-American, while Olivia Voskuil is honorable mention:

https://wbca.org/about/press-releases/player-year-maddie-hasson-bowdoin-college-headlines-2020-wbca-division-iii


Brian Morehouse also named the National Coach of the Year (an award he also won in 2006):

https://wbca.org/about/press-releases/brian-morehouse-named-2020-united-states-marine-corpswbca-ncaa-division-iii
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on April 01, 2020, 09:53:52 PM
Found this on MLive:

PLAYER OF THE YEAR FOR BAY CITY AREA, AND SHE'S ONLY A JUNIOR:

ABI TARRANT, JOHN GLENN

A heart-and-hustle kind of player, the John Glenn junior plays a different brand of ball than everybody else on the court. She's a point guard who thrives on rebounding, a playmaker who prefers defense and a winner who simply breaks the mold.

The high-energy, highly driven floor general elevated her game to new heights this season, averaging 19.8 points to go along with 2.8 assists and 2.8 steals per game. To illustrate her never-ending motor, she averaged 10.6 rebounds and broke the program's career rebounding record – as a 5-foot-8 point guard with another year in front of her.

The first-team all-Saginaw Valley League North performer is a three-time Dream Team honoree. She verbally committed to the Hope College basketball program.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HOPEful on April 02, 2020, 09:02:44 AM
Quote from: AlwaysHope on April 01, 2020, 09:53:52 PM
Found this on MLive:

PLAYER OF THE YEAR FOR BAY CITY AREA, AND SHE'S ONLY A JUNIOR:

ABI TARRANT, JOHN GLENN

A heart-and-hustle kind of player, the John Glenn junior plays a different brand of ball than everybody else on the court. She's a point guard who thrives on rebounding, a playmaker who prefers defense and a winner who simply breaks the mold.

The high-energy, highly driven floor general elevated her game to new heights this season, averaging 19.8 points to go along with 2.8 assists and 2.8 steals per game. To illustrate her never-ending motor, she averaged 10.6 rebounds and broke the program's career rebounding record – as a 5-foot-8 point guard with another year in front of her.

The first-team all-Saginaw Valley League North performer is a three-time Dream Team honoree. She verbally committed to the Hope College basketball program.

Great news when one considers the caliber of seniors graduating after next season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on April 30, 2020, 04:56:57 PM
Great interview with Trine graduating senior Katy Steers via video from Trine junior Shay Herbert.  She had a fantastic career here at Trine, 4 year starter.  Good luck in your future career Katy!

https://youtu.be/GBBxdzTXWjQ
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on May 09, 2020, 07:23:45 PM
Came across this wonderful blog piece by Hope assistant coach and former MIAA all-league player Courtney Kust.  What a wonderful perspective on their season, coronavirus, and approach to life in general.  Bravo, really well done and beautifully written!

https://blogs.baylor.edu/faithsports/2020/04/22/reaping-a-harvest-even-when-a-perfect-season-is-disrupted/


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on September 11, 2020, 07:38:16 PM
MJIAA Presidents' Council voted unanimously to postpone all conference sponsored athletic events until January 2021.  Sports affected are men's and women's basketball and swimming and diving. Wrestling and indoor track and field were not scheduled to compete in any MIAA events prior to January 2021. 

Each MIAA member school has institutional autonomy to participate in non-conference events as they deem appropriate for their student-athletes. Development of revised schedules will begin immediately.

The Presidents' Council also approved a plan for fall sports to be played in the spring semester.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on September 23, 2020, 06:27:29 PM
Will there be a 2020-21 NCAA Division III basketball season? If so what will it look like? What will the post-season look like?

It is on the mind of student-athletes, coaches, administrators, parents, and fans for several weeks, if not months, now. We are finally understanding what it may look like as a number of decisions or proposals are now making their way around Division III.

In this month's podcast, Dave McHugh not only downloads all the things being considered and the likely outcomes, but tries to give listeners an understanding of how much is still unknown despite some things becoming more clear.

McHugh also talks to Texas-Dallas women's basketball coach Polly Thomason for her take. Thomason has been in the Division III Women's Basketball National Committee for several years and is this season's chair of the committee. She also serves on the WBCA Board of Governors. Thomason not only provides her perspective on much of what is going on not only in Division III, but in women's basketball as well.

And of course, there is always the Hoopsville Notebook. Unfortunately, there is some sad news in the Notebook this month, but also news to celebrate especially when it comes to DIII alums making news in the NBA.

You can listen to the podcast here: https://bit.ly/3kMl0rZ

Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) broadcasts from the WBCA/NABC Studio. All guests are featured on the BlueFrame Technology Hoopsville Hotline. The offseason plan is to do a podcast each month. The shows will be audio-only leading up to the start of the 2020-21 when we will restart the video shows.

If you have questions, ideas, or want to interact with the show, feel free to send them to hoopsville@d3sports.com or use any of the social media options available.

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Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on October 19, 2020, 05:08:05 PM
Well, ready or not we have basketball games being played by the Trine women this week.  They have 2 back to back home exhibition games against state NAIA teams from Huntington on Thursday and Indiana Wesleyan on Friday.  They are in a very good Crossroads Conference that usually has multiple teams playing in the NAIA post season tournament every year.  It will be interesting to see how we match up against these NAIA squads.

The 2020-2021 roster is out: https://trinethunder.com/sports/wbkb/2020-21/roster  Not much turnover at all. Obviously replacing Katy Steers at PG will be the biggest challenge going into this season.  The Thunder are heavily laden with Juniors and Sophs.  4 new faces on Varsity, 3 freshmen and 1 transfer from Walsh University in Ohio.  There is going to be a ton of competition for playing time that's for sure.  I know Sr Shay Herbert is coming off surgery this past spring so she might not be available yet.  My guess at a starting 5 is Bieniewicz, Wildman, Stewart (taking over for Steers), Taylor, and Sam Underhill or Sophie Sloneker in place of Herbert if she is not ready.

I hope the games are live streamed but haven't found any confirmation that they will be.  I'm sure the arena will only be open to Trine personnel, parents and students, but haven't seen any official announcement yet.

Trine has 3 games scheduled in November so far.  Scheduling prior to conference play in 2021 will be very fluid I'm sure with additional games being added or subtracted on the fly.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Jester1390 on October 20, 2020, 12:13:47 AM
I have heard there are talks between Rose-Hulman and Trine in playing.  Rose is still waiting for permission from admin to play non confrence
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on October 20, 2020, 05:22:07 PM
Quote from: Jester1390 on October 20, 2020, 12:13:47 AM
I have heard there are talks between Rose-Hulman and Trine in playing.  Rose is still waiting for permission from admin to play non confrence
I hope they can make it work Jester.  My guess is that Trine will be looking at matchups with colleges mostly within a 4-5 hour drive.  Most schools within the HCAC would be viable scheduling prospects if those schools pursue a Nov/Dec independent schedule.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on October 22, 2020, 07:50:15 PM
Trine loses exhibition game to Huntington 63-48, watched the game on the Trine Broadcasting Network.  Trine shot like they hadn't touched a basketball since last March.  ::)  We played lots of girls, 15 or so, probably no one got more than 15 minutes.  Huntington is good, not "Hope good" but pretty decent, was a 20 win team last year.  They played less of a bench and starters played way more.  No one stood out for Trine, except for Rachel Stewart.  She didn't start the game but was probably the best girl on the court for Trine.  We also got annilihated on the boards, Huntington went to the offensive glass very well.  Too many turnovers, couldn't hit a 3 ball.  Not recipes for a win.  But it's our first time out.  Got another exibition game tomorrow night against an even better Indiana Wesleyan squad.  Game will not be broadcast however.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jaybird44 on October 29, 2020, 11:09:06 PM
It seems that I have been the only member of the only (unofficial) fall sport at WashU, with my 100-mile ultramarathon attempt earlier this month to promote the fight for a cure during Rett Syndrome Awareness Month.  That attempt fell a bit short in miles and fundraising, so I'm going into overtime to try and reach $5,000 in donations.

Rett Gets Rocked 50K for $5K will commence Friday, October 30 at 8 pm Central, and end at 8 am Halloween morning.  Counting donations received (thanks to retired WashU men's basketball coach Mark Edwards and his wife Mary, and to Mike McGrath and his  University of Chicago men's basketball program for their donations!) and those yet to be sent and processed, I am at $4,440.53.  Very, very close to my goal...which will fund a researcher's work for a month.  Wouldn't it be cool if he or she cracked the code for a cure of Rett syndrome, on our dime?!

I reached 86 miles in my "Rett Gets Rocked Virtual Ultra Weekend" October 3-4.  I'm very proud of that result, but there's more work to be done.  Proceeds from the event will be split between Rettsyndrome.org (the only national organization spearheading research and providing resources for affected patients and their families) and the Rett Spectrum Clinic--a collaboration between the WashU School of Medicine and St. Louis Children's Hospital.

Rett syndrome is a rare, non-inherited neurological disorder that is caused by a gene mutation in the brain.  It primarily affects girls (1 in every 10,000 girls develop Rett).  It strikes typically when a child is 6-18 months old, and it has the characteristics of ALS, autism, epilepsy, and Parkinson's...all rolled into one sinister disorder.  It takes away the child's ability to move and communicate. 

In essence, Rett does to a child what Lucy in the "Peanuts" comic strip does to Charlie Brown when he tries to kick the football that she is holding.  The only difference is that Charlie Brown can get back up to try again.  Those who are afflicted with Rett syndrome don't get another chance to enjoy a vibrant life.

Researchers are working to re-engineer the gene mutation that turns on Rett, so it can be forever turned off.  Four drug therapies are in the FDA review pipeline, with one (trofanitide) one level away from review.  And, iPad tablets with retinal scan technology are giving those with Rett a voice they haven't had since they were toddlers.

The full court press on Rett is paying off.  You can help keep the pressure on Rett, by going to my Rett Racers donation page:  https://rettracer.everydayhero.com/us/rett-gets-rocked-2020

Thanks for your time and consideration, and hopefully there will be basketball to play and broadcast at the start of 2021!

Jay Murry
Play-By-Play Announcer, Washington University in St. Louis
Event Director, Rett Gets Rocked 50K for $5K
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on November 10, 2020, 04:47:16 PM
Trine opened the "pre conference" season this past weekend with a couple road wins over NAIA squads from Lawrence Tech on Saturday and Siena Heights on Sunday.  So far all of the Thunder games played, including exhibition, have been against NAIA teams, and have added another NAIA game at Goshen on Friday evening.  Each institution, I am assuming, has their own guidleines as far as mask wearing on the court.  I noticed against Lawrence Tech the Trine women did not wear masks, but against Siena Heights they did, as did the SHU ladies.   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Jester1390 on November 10, 2020, 06:58:19 PM
Trine will pay Rose at Rose  TUESDAY DEC 1ST
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 19, 2021, 06:57:08 PM
Holding my breath that the Hope women will get a game in tomorrow at Devos as scheduled.  After the undefeated season with a junior-laden team last year, I just hope the Dutch seniors get to play a few games, maybe have the opportunity to play for a league championship.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 20, 2021, 08:32:26 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 19, 2021, 06:57:08 PM
Holding my breath that the Hope women will get a game in tomorrow at Devos as scheduled.  After the undefeated season with a junior-laden team last year, I just hope the Dutch seniors get to play a few games, maybe have the opportunity to play for a league championship.

I share your thinking.  Pretty certain they are already the only basketball team (in the modern, championship era) to finish a season un-defeated but not win a national championship.  My heart goes out to this senior class (9 of them on the team) - praying that they can be healthy, play all the games on their current schedule, and then beyond.  Looking forward to seeing some De Vos basketball tonight. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 21, 2021, 08:36:31 AM
Hope 97
Concordia 30

Enjoyed seeing some Hope basketball last night.  Really not much of a contest as Hope's size and defense really controlled the game.  Hope had 30 offensive rebounds with 25 second chance points.  Concordia committed 46 turnovers (Hope had 32 steals) with 58 points off those turnovers.

Concordia is a very young team - 1 Sr & 1 Jr, while Hope is of course very experienced with 9 Sr that to date have started a combined 311 games!  That being said, I was also impressed with the play of some of the newcomers to the Hope team.

Overall - it was really nice to see the joy of playing the game in all the players!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 21, 2021, 06:27:41 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on January 21, 2021, 08:36:31 AM
Hope 97
Concordia 30

Enjoyed seeing some Hope basketball last night.  Really not much of a contest as Hope's size and defense really controlled the game.  Hope had 30 offensive rebounds with 25 second chance points.  Concordia committed 46 turnovers (Hope had 32 steals) with 58 points off those turnovers.

Concordia is a very young team - 1 Sr & 1 Jr, while Hope is of course very experienced with 9 Sr that to date have started a combined 311 games!  That being said, I was also impressed with the play of some of the newcomers to the Hope team.

Overall - it was really nice to see the joy of playing the game in all the players!!

Yes, really nice to see even though not a competitive game.  Also nice that everyone got a lot of PT.  Defensive intensity and conditioning was very impressive considering the long layoff.  A little rust on the offensive end in spots but not bad.  Schoonveld VERY impressive, looked like the All American she is.  A little hard to tell from this game but looks like the Dutch haven't missed a beat from last season. 

I see Trine had a blowout win over Alma; I don't know much about Calvin or the rest of the league for that matter but a two team race again seems likely.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 24, 2021, 07:33:18 AM
I mentioned a two team race with Hope and Trine, that may be true gut I failed to give credit to always tough Albion.  Hope pulled away in the 2nd half for the 86-58 win but it was maybe more of a battle than the final score indicated.  Albion's Rain Hinton is a heck of a player.  I don't know if the masks make it even more important, but Hope's depth seemed to play a major role as is often the case with the Dutch.  5 Dutch in double figures including 2 off the bench (career high 17 for Kate Majerus) and 10 players saw at least 14 minutes of PT.  Such a luxury for the Dutch to have active and agile 6'3" Olivia Voskuil guarding the interior, she set a school record with 9 blocks.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 25, 2021, 09:19:01 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 24, 2021, 07:33:18 AM
I mentioned a two team race with Hope and Trine, that may be true gut I failed to give credit to always tough Albion.  Hope pulled away in the 2nd half for the 86-58 win but it was maybe more of a battle than the final score indicated.  Albion's Rain Hinton is a heck of a player.  I don't know if the masks make it even more important, but Hope's depth seemed to play a major role as is often the case with the Dutch.  5 Dutch in double figures including 2 off the bench (career high 17 for Kate Majerus) and 10 players saw at least 14 minutes of PT.  Such a luxury for the Dutch to have active and agile 6'3" Olivia Voskuil guarding the interior, she set a school record with 9 blocks.

Agree on your thpoughts on the game wiht the Britons on Saturday.  Voskuil really had quite the game (despite going 3-12 from the floor). 12 points, 9 reb, 9 blocks, 3 ast, 6-6 on FT in 26 min. 

Also, with her 13 points on Saturday, Kenedy Schoonveld is now just 20 points from hitting the 1000 point mark. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on January 28, 2021, 05:45:22 PM
I haven't chimed in much about Trine WBB since the season resumed with MIAA play.  With the Trine men playing well this year I swap back and forth between game feeds  :D.  Watched a little of the Calvin game last night.  What's going on with the Knights WBB?  I would have thought they'd turn the corner with most all of their squad returning.  Timmer so was so fantastic her Freshman year, virtually unstopped in the post and could step out and hit the 3, but things seem different with her now.  Is she battling thru injuiries?  Just doesn't seem the same Gabby as she was a couple years ago.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on January 28, 2021, 06:01:26 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on January 28, 2021, 05:45:22 PM
I haven't chimed in much about Trine WBB since the season resumed with MIAA play.  With the Trine men playing well this year I swap back and forth between game feeds  :D.  Watched a little of the Calvin game last night.  What's going on with the Knights WBB?  I would have thought they'd turn the corner with most all of their squad returning.  Timmer so was so fantastic her Freshman year, virtually unstopped in the post and could step out and hit the 3, but things seem different with her now.  Is she battling thru injuiries?  Just doesn't seem the same Gabby as she was a couple years ago.

Not sure what's up with Calvin.  At first I'd say that Trine and Hope just have really strong teams and have distanced themselves, but then I see Calvin lost to Alma.  Timmer had a tough shooting night vs the Scots but plenty of minutes and 14 rebs.   But I see she played only 21 minutes vs Trine with no foul trouble.   Something seems amiss, maybe injury or illness but that's pure speculation on my part.

Trine seems very formidable again.  Playing fabulous defense!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 29, 2021, 07:18:51 PM
(https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=710/cr=n/d=npmg3/t0vp4323yzpeajt8.jpg)

The Division III basketball season technically started nearly three months ago, but it has taken until the end of January for it to start feeling like the season is really underway. Even so, only about a quarter of the division has played just a single game. Another quarter of the division will never take to the court. And in between is wide gulf of different options.

On the first video-version of Hoopsville this season, Dave McHugh is joined by much of the D3hoops.com crew, Pat Coleman and Ryan Scott, to react to what has been one of the more unique seasons ... to say it lightly.

We react to the challenges schools are facing, what coaches are grappling with on a daily basis - especially beyond games and practices, and why schools are making so many different decisions.

We also discuss what is likely the future of this season's NCAA Championship Tournaments and, more importantly, when the decision on those tournaments will be made.

Plus, will there be a Top 25? No. Well, yes. Kind of. Tune in to learn more on what's coming. Plus a lot more including Dave spinning off Pat's thoughts on those wishing to attend games.

Hoopsville is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. You can watch the show by clicking on the video player above. Or you can listen to the podcast available on any of the service options in the right panel.

If you have questions about Division III basketball, feel free to send them and we will answer them on a the show. Email them to hoopsville@d3sports.com or use any of the social media options to the right.

You can WATCH the show or listen to the podcast here: https://bit.ly/3oASGKl or https://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2020-21/january

Hoopsville broadcasts from the WBCA/NABC Studio. All guests are featured on the BlueFrame Technology Hoopsville Hotline.

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Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on February 02, 2021, 06:12:20 PM
The 1st D3Hoops.com poll came out yesterday, the poll is limited to a Top Ten this year due to the limited number of D3 schools who are playing winter sports.  Hope is #1 and Trine #5.  Just about where both squads left off from last March in the cancelled D3 tournament.  Trine visits Hope tomorrow night.  It will be interesting to see where both teams are at.  We still haven't figured out the right mix yet at point with the graduation of Katy Steers.  Soph Makayla Ardis has been starting the last few games, but Jr Kaylee Argyle has started a few games as well.  Neither has performed to the level we need them too.  We have been so inconsistent offensively from our regulars, Wildman went scoreless against Adrian last game out and Bieniewicz has struggled with her shooting compared to last year.  If those 2 girls don't play well against Hope we have no shot to be in the game.  Both teams play stifling defense, but Hope's offense is so much better than Trine's right now that this will be the difference tomorrow night.   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 02, 2021, 08:12:04 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 02, 2021, 06:12:20 PM
The 1st D3Hoops.com poll came out yesterday, the poll is limited to a Top Ten this year due to the limited number of D3 schools who are playing winter sports. 

It's limited to a Top 10 this week but as the page on the website says, with the changing nature of the pandemic, the number of voters and teams voted for may change from week to week.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on February 03, 2021, 08:54:17 PM
Just heard, no tournament again this year. Pretty special team that Hope has. Huge bummer for those ladies!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on February 04, 2021, 12:05:06 AM
Indeed. It's a bummer for all of us. Hope has a really, really great team and I wish we could've seen how far they could go.

Here's a little more from tonight's game.

https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2021/02/hope-bittersweet-victory
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 04, 2021, 02:28:41 PM
I too really feel for this team (and all the others) and another disappointment.  The record of this team, and specifically this senior class (thus far) is truly remarkable.

Won - Loss Record: 87-7 (.926)

Those 7 losses are to 3 teams - 4 times to Trine, 2 times to Thomas More, and once to Wartburg.  All of those losses were to teams that won at least 1 NCAA tournament that year, and often more than 1. 

The cummulative record of those opponents:

194-19 (.911) overall
18-6 (.750) in the NCAA tournament
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 10, 2021, 09:08:45 AM
The last two Hope games its been pretty amazing to see what such a fabulous defensive team can do when they catch fire shooting the ball.   

Last Saturday they win 111-30 versus a very undersized Kazoo team (playing their first game of the season).  Hope shot 56% from the field and 32% from 3.  That 81 point margin is a Hope record.

Last night, Hope won 113-53 at Olivet while shooting 60.6% from the floor and 38.5% from 3.

7-0 on the season and averaging 89 point per game, while giving up 47 - that's a 42 point average margin of victory! 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 11, 2021, 09:31:41 AM
Hope vs Adrian games (men & women) are postponed for today (2/11)

Calvin vs Albion games (men & women) are postponed for today (2/11)

All teams currently showing scheduled games on Saturday...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 18, 2021, 09:45:47 AM
Curious if anyone knows the status of Ashleigh Thomas - she hasn't played since the Feb 6 game at Kazoo.  Just wondering if it is C19 related or an injury

UPDATE: Digging deeper I see Courtney Barnes, Jess Moorman and Mallory Gerber are also not playing - so I'd guess they're "in the protocol"
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HOPEful on February 22, 2021, 08:35:11 AM
Wondering how many, if any, of Hope's 9 seniors intend to use the extra year of eligibility and return next season.

(I took more than 4 years to graduate personally, so I gotta think maybe 1 out 9 might be on the 5 year plan as well?)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 22, 2021, 10:07:45 AM
Quote from: HOPEful on February 22, 2021, 08:35:11 AM
Wondering how many, if any, of Hope's 9 seniors intend to use the extra year of eligibility and return next season.

(I took more than 4 years to graduate personally, so I gotta think maybe 1 out 9 might be on the 5 year plan as well?)

Not to ruin the surprise, but there's an article heavily featuring the Hope wbb team coming out on your favorite Division III basketball news site in the next day or two.  The official word is, essentially, you never know what will happen, but they don't anticipate any of the seniors being back.


Anecdotally, as I've talked to coaches and players this year, it seems there are clear trend lines: male players seem eager to do whatever it takes to come back (on the whole, not universally), while female players seem much more content to move on to whatever is next.

Unless they were already planning to take a fifth year or had grad school at the same school lined up already, I'm not sure I've spoken to a single senior female who's changing plans to use that extra year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 22, 2021, 04:53:31 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 22, 2021, 10:07:45 AM
Quote from: HOPEful on February 22, 2021, 08:35:11 AM
Wondering how many, if any, of Hope's 9 seniors intend to use the extra year of eligibility and return next season.

(I took more than 4 years to graduate personally, so I gotta think maybe 1 out 9 might be on the 5 year plan as well?)

Not to ruin the surprise, but there's an article heavily featuring the Hope wbb team coming out on your favorite Division III basketball news site in the next day or two.  The official word is, essentially, you never know what will happen, but they don't anticipate any of the seniors being back.


Anecdotally, as I've talked to coaches and players this year, it seems there are clear trend lines: male players seem eager to do whatever it takes to come back (on the whole, not universally), while female players seem much more content to move on to whatever is next.

Unless they were already planning to take a fifth year or had grad school at the same school lined up already, I'm not sure I've spoken to a single senior female who's changing plans to use that extra year.

I have no inside knowledge but I would think there's a small chance any would be back.  Hope is primarily a 4 year undergrad college.  Hope's WBB team almost always has one of the best team gpas in the country, these are really excellent and motivated students.  Several are Nursing students with clinicals and so forth that are designed to transition directly into a Nursing career.  Maybe someone would be interested in returning for a 2nd BS degree but Hope is not inexpensive so another year of tuition and adding in a year of potential lost wages, it would be a very expensive decision.  Hope has a wonderful basketball community and experience, and these young women are driven athletes, but I suspect they will move on to bigger and better things.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 23, 2021, 08:20:39 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 22, 2021, 10:07:45 AM
Quote from: HOPEful on February 22, 2021, 08:35:11 AM
Wondering how many, if any, of Hope's 9 seniors intend to use the extra year of eligibility and return next season.

(I took more than 4 years to graduate personally, so I gotta think maybe 1 out 9 might be on the 5 year plan as well?)

Not to ruin the surprise, but there's an article heavily featuring the Hope wbb team coming out on your favorite Division III basketball news site in the next day or two.  The official word is, essentially, you never know what will happen, but they don't anticipate any of the seniors being back.


Anecdotally, as I've talked to coaches and players this year, it seems there are clear trend lines: male players seem eager to do whatever it takes to come back (on the whole, not universally), while female players seem much more content to move on to whatever is next.

Unless they were already planning to take a fifth year or had grad school at the same school lined up already, I'm not sure I've spoken to a single senior female who's changing plans to use that extra year.

Ryan, really excellent article.  Though the focus is Hope WBB, it reminds us of what many college athletes - all sports and both male and female - have lost during this pandemic.  But is also reminds us of the bigger picture and how just maybe these challenges are making these student/athletes even stronger and more resilient through the rest of their lives.  Thank you.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HOPEful on February 23, 2021, 09:23:09 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 22, 2021, 04:53:31 PM
I have no inside knowledge but I would think there's a small chance any would be back.  Hope is primarily a 4 year undergrad college.  Hope's WBB team almost always has one of the best team gpas in the country, these are really excellent and motivated students.  Several are Nursing students with clinicals and so forth that are designed to transition directly into a Nursing career.  Maybe someone would be interested in returning for a 2nd BS degree but Hope is not inexpensive so another year of tuition and adding in a year of potential lost wages, it would be a very expensive decision.  Hope has a wonderful basketball community and experience, and these young women are driven athletes, but I suspect they will move on to bigger and better things.

Agreed completely. I was more wishfully thinking that perhaps one was already on the 4.5 year plan and would want to tweak their schedule to play, not make a major change to stay in school a whole another year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HOPEful on February 23, 2021, 09:39:25 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 22, 2021, 10:07:45 AM
Anecdotally, as I've talked to coaches and players this year, it seems there are clear trend lines: male players seem eager to do whatever it takes to come back (on the whole, not universally), while female players seem much more content to move on to whatever is next.

I feel like this is pretty true typically. It seems the average male player, basketball has been a big part, or even the primary part, of their identity since middle school. And for the most part, their female counterparts tend to be much more well rounded. For whatever cultural reason, a parent is much more likely to introduce their son as, "This is my son _____, he plays bball for Hope!" and their daughter as, "This is my daughter _______, she is a Civil Engineering major and Spanish minor at Hope. And she made dean's list and has a job lined up already for when she graduates. Oh, and she starts on the basketball team!"
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on February 23, 2021, 11:58:44 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 22, 2021, 10:07:45 AM
Not to ruin the surprise, but there's an article heavily featuring the Hope wbb team coming out on your favorite Division III basketball news site in the next day or two.  The official word is, essentially, you never know what will happen, but they don't anticipate any of the seniors being back.
Fantastic article, Ryan Scott. Just a great piece of writing, one that points to lessons beyond BB.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: monsoon on February 23, 2021, 08:18:06 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 22, 2021, 10:07:45 AM
Not to ruin the surprise, but there's an article heavily featuring the Hope wbb team coming out on your favorite Division III basketball news site in the next day or two.  The official word is, essentially, you never know what will happen, but they don't anticipate any of the seniors being back.


Anecdotally, as I've talked to coaches and players this year, it seems there are clear trend lines: male players seem eager to do whatever it takes to come back (on the whole, not universally), while female players seem much more content to move on to whatever is next.

Unless they were already planning to take a fifth year or had grad school at the same school lined up already, I'm not sure I've spoken to a single senior female who's changing plans to use that extra year.

Thanks for the good work, Ryan! Excellent article.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 24, 2021, 10:24:23 AM
Quote from: HOPEful on February 23, 2021, 09:39:25 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 22, 2021, 10:07:45 AM
Anecdotally, as I've talked to coaches and players this year, it seems there are clear trend lines: male players seem eager to do whatever it takes to come back (on the whole, not universally), while female players seem much more content to move on to whatever is next.

I feel like this is pretty true typically. It seems the average male player, basketball has been a big part, or even the primary part, of their identity since middle school. And for the most part, their female counterparts tend to be much more well rounded. For whatever cultural reason, a parent is much more likely to introduce their son as, "This is my son _____, he plays bball for Hope!" and their daughter as, "This is my daughter _______, she is a Civil Engineering major and Spanish minor at Hope. And she made dean's list and has a job lined up already for when she graduates. Oh, and she starts on the basketball team!"

I also wonder, especially for the very best male players, if there isn't some underlying thought in their minds, "if I could just get the right break, I could catch on a pro in Europe somewhere."  Women players are almost never thinking that way.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on February 24, 2021, 01:03:48 PM
I liked the tidbit on the legacy papers that Morehouse has them right. I've never heard of coaches doing that, but maybe others do. It's a really cool idea and says a lot about the program's focus on the big picture, beyond basketball.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 24, 2021, 08:19:03 PM
Heck of a defensive battle in Angola tonight with Hope up 24-20 at the half. Not sure who the commentators are (I assume students) but they need to work on at least feigning a little impartiality, or at the very least stop complaining about every call.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2021, 06:54:31 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 24, 2021, 08:19:03 PM
Heck of a defensive battle in Angola tonight with Hope up 24-20 at the half. Not sure who the commentators are (I assume students) but they need to work on at least feigning a little impartiality, or at the very least stop complaining about every call.

I don't mind a homer broadcast, but when your standard call for a missed shot is, "it's up and... oh man, no foul call," it gets a little old after a while. Still, if the pbp guy is a student, I'm impressed.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 25, 2021, 07:17:09 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2021, 06:54:31 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 24, 2021, 08:19:03 PM
Heck of a defensive battle in Angola tonight with Hope up 24-20 at the half. Not sure who the commentators are (I assume students) but they need to work on at least feigning a little impartiality, or at the very least stop complaining about every call.

I don't mind a homer broadcast, but when your standard call for a missed shot is, "it's up and... oh man, no foul call," it gets a little old after a while. Still, if the pbp guy is a student, I'm impressed.

He did a great job of keeping up with the ball movement and was right on with the players etc. That part was well done indeed. At one point I was wondering if they were just so caught up in the game they forgot they were broadcasting- but then one of them we use their "monster truck rally announcer voice". 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2021, 09:34:52 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 25, 2021, 07:17:09 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2021, 06:54:31 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 24, 2021, 08:19:03 PM
Heck of a defensive battle in Angola tonight with Hope up 24-20 at the half. Not sure who the commentators are (I assume students) but they need to work on at least feigning a little impartiality, or at the very least stop complaining about every call.

I don't mind a homer broadcast, but when your standard call for a missed shot is, "it's up and... oh man, no foul call," it gets a little old after a while. Still, if the pbp guy is a student, I'm impressed.

He did a great job of keeping up with the ball movement and was right on with the players etc. That part was well done indeed. At one point I was wondering if they were just so caught up in the game they forgot they were broadcasting- but then one of them we use their "monster truck rally announcer voice".

I like announcers who seem like they're having fun.  I'm willing to forgive a few moments where they take it too far.  A little more variety in vocabulary and little less talking over each other.  It's WAY better than most student broadcasts out there.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on February 25, 2021, 10:15:03 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2021, 09:34:52 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 25, 2021, 07:17:09 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2021, 06:54:31 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 24, 2021, 08:19:03 PM
Heck of a defensive battle in Angola tonight with Hope up 24-20 at the half. Not sure who the commentators are (I assume students) but they need to work on at least feigning a little impartiality, or at the very least stop complaining about every call.

I don't mind a homer broadcast, but when your standard call for a missed shot is, "it's up and... oh man, no foul call," it gets a little old after a while. Still, if the pbp guy is a student, I'm impressed.

He did a great job of keeping up with the ball movement and was right on with the players etc. That part was well done indeed. At one point I was wondering if they were just so caught up in the game they forgot they were broadcasting- but then one of them we use their "monster truck rally announcer voice".

I like announcers who seem like they're having fun.  I'm willing to forgive a few moments where they take it too far.  A little more variety in vocabulary and little less talking over each other.  It's WAY better than most student broadcasts out there.
I agree with you all. Even with the complaining about referee calls, their great voices and infectious energy suggests that . . . with the addition of a tad more professionalism . . . they could both have a future in broadcasting.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on February 25, 2021, 07:33:08 PM
Quote from: pointlem on February 25, 2021, 10:15:03 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2021, 09:34:52 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 25, 2021, 07:17:09 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2021, 06:54:31 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 24, 2021, 08:19:03 PM
Heck of a defensive battle in Angola tonight with Hope up 24-20 at the half. Not sure who the commentators are (I assume students) but they need to work on at least feigning a little impartiality, or at the very least stop complaining about every call.

I don't mind a homer broadcast, but when your standard call for a missed shot is, "it's up and... oh man, no foul call," it gets a little old after a while. Still, if the pbp guy is a student, I'm impressed.

He did a great job of keeping up with the ball movement and was right on with the players etc. That part was well done indeed. At one point I was wondering if they were just so caught up in the game they forgot they were broadcasting- but then one of them we use their "monster truck rally announcer voice".

I like announcers who seem like they're having fun.  I'm willing to forgive a few moments where they take it too far.  A little more variety in vocabulary and little less talking over each other.  It's WAY better than most student broadcasts out there.
I agree with you all. Even with the incessant complaining about every close referee call, their great voices and infectious energy suggests that . . . with the addition of a tad more professionalism . . . they could both have a future in broadcasting.
The announcers for last nights Hope-Trine WBB game are both Trine students.  John Kay is a communications major and Brooke Cunningham is a criminal justice major and former player on the Trine softball team.  They are both "Michiganders" too, John is from Petoskey and Brooke is from Manton.  I think John has a real good future as either a play by play or color commentator.  Brooke is mostly a PA announcer at the Trine women volleyball games and fills in every now and then with color at basketball games.  The regular Trine PBP guy is Andy Brown who is a communications professor at Trine, and does an outstanding job.  I understand the comments about the commentators being less biased, but these are just kids, we gotta lighten up.  I sometimes just mute the broadcast if it gets a little too awkward.  But all student broadcasters are 'homers' to an extent.  I've listened to Adrian and Albion student PBP and it's the same deal, every call against their team is a bad call.

The game itself sorta lived up to the hype.  First half was UGLY for both teams.  Second half was much more fluid with more offense.  Difference was Hope was able to get to the free throw line and Trine didn't.  Man we really miss Katy Steers at PG, both our PGs now, Makayla Ardis and Kaylee Argyle, had way too many careless turnovers.  Kaylee's younger sister Alyssa with her best game of her career for Trine.  But our 2 all conference returness in Tara and Kayla both had poor shooting nights, and Tara battled foul trouble too.

Just so impressed with Hope.  We all know about the stellar senior class, probably one of the best classes in womens' D3 history?  But you Dutch fans there will be a lot to look forward to.  I've been so impressed with Ella McKinney in both of the Trine games.  She'll be a standout the next couple of years and would probably be a starter at any other D3 school not named 'Hope'.  Majerus and Baguley will have more opportunities to be the 'go to' girls next year as well.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 25, 2021, 09:57:53 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 25, 2021, 07:33:08 PM
But all student broadcasters are 'homers' to an extent.

This isn't actually true.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 26, 2021, 06:53:14 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 25, 2021, 09:57:53 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 25, 2021, 07:33:08 PM
But all student broadcasters are 'homers' to an extent.

This isn't actually true.

Agreed - have watched and heard many student broadcasts that were excellent. I get that they may be in different stages of developing their abilities but for many of them this is related to a class or even their major or minor.  Whether that is true or not, we should expect students to grow in those abilities and hold them to higher standards, rather than just awarding them all a participation trophy.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 26, 2021, 09:44:31 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 25, 2021, 07:33:08 PM
Quote from: pointlem on February 25, 2021, 10:15:03 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2021, 09:34:52 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 25, 2021, 07:17:09 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2021, 06:54:31 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 24, 2021, 08:19:03 PM
Heck of a defensive battle in Angola tonight with Hope up 24-20 at the half. Not sure who the commentators are (I assume students) but they need to work on at least feigning a little impartiality, or at the very least stop complaining about every call.

I don't mind a homer broadcast, but when your standard call for a missed shot is, "it's up and... oh man, no foul call," it gets a little old after a while. Still, if the pbp guy is a student, I'm impressed.

He did a great job of keeping up with the ball movement and was right on with the players etc. That part was well done indeed. At one point I was wondering if they were just so caught up in the game they forgot they were broadcasting- but then one of them we use their "monster truck rally announcer voice".

I like announcers who seem like they're having fun.  I'm willing to forgive a few moments where they take it too far.  A little more variety in vocabulary and little less talking over each other.  It's WAY better than most student broadcasts out there.
I agree with you all. Even with the incessant complaining about every close referee call, their great voices and infectious energy suggests that . . . with the addition of a tad more professionalism . . . they could both have a future in broadcasting.
The announcers for last nights Hope-Trine WBB game are both Trine students.  John Kay is a communications major and Brooke Cunningham is a criminal justice major and former player on the Trine softball team.  They are both "Michiganders" too, John is from Petoskey and Brooke is from Manton.  I think John has a real good future as either a play by play or color commentator.  Brooke is mostly a PA announcer at the Trine women volleyball games and fills in every now and then with color at basketball games.  The regular Trine PBP guy is Andy Brown who is a communications professor at Trine, and does an outstanding job.  I understand the comments about the commentators being less biased, but these are just kids, we gotta lighten up.  I sometimes just mute the broadcast if it gets a little too awkward.  But all student broadcasters are 'homers' to an extent.  I've listened to Adrian and Albion student PBP and it's the same deal, every call against their team is a bad call.

The game itself sorta lived up to the hype.  First half was UGLY for both teams.  Second half was much more fluid with more offense.  Difference was Hope was able to get to the free throw line and Trine didn't.  Man we really miss Katy Steers at PG, both our PGs now, Makayla Ardis and Kaylee Argyle, had way too many careless turnovers.  Kaylee's younger sister Alyssa with her best game of her career for Trine.  But our 2 all conference returness in Tara and Kayla both had poor shooting nights, and Tara battled foul trouble too.

Just so impressed with Hope.  We all know about the stellar senior class, probably one of the best classes in womens' D3 history?  But you Dutch fans there will be a lot to look forward to.  I've been so impressed with Ella McKinney in both of the Trine games.  She'll be a standout the next couple of years and would probably be a starter at any other D3 school not named 'Hope'.  Majerus and Baguley will have more opportunities to be the 'go to' girls next year as well.


FWIW, Hope's JV team went unbeaten.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on February 28, 2021, 07:32:21 AM
Unusual but nice move by Hope's Coach Morehouse to start all nine seniors on Senior Day.  It earned the Dutch a technical to open the game but was a great way to recognize this standout senior class and the typical balance of the Hope team.  Coach Mo had discussed the move in advance with the officials so the T was handled efficiently and the game moved on.  Nice gesture.  On to the conference tournament this week, the Dutch earned the right to host as long as they win which means some of their family members have the opportunity to attend the games under current COVID policies
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HOPEful on March 02, 2021, 08:35:30 AM
Nice article on Kenedy and Olivia.

https://www.hollandsentinel.com/story/sports/2021/03/01/kenedy-schoonveld-olivia-voskuil-leave-unprecedented-legacy-hope-together/6880719002/
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on March 03, 2021, 07:46:22 PM
Gracious. Calvin women go 1-14 with 9 turnovers in the first quarter.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HOPEful on March 04, 2021, 09:38:52 AM
Quote from: scottiedawg on March 03, 2021, 07:46:22 PM
Gracious. Calvin women go 1-14 with 9 turnovers in the first quarter.

If you can't prove yourself in a post-season tournament, there are certainly less satisfying ways to end one's collegiate career than a 77-26 shellacking of your rival followed by an opportunity at a hat-trick against the #3 team in the country.

It sure would be nice if we could just get East Texas Baptist, Hope, the SCAC champion, and the ARC champion together and play out a Final Four though.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on March 04, 2021, 05:47:57 PM
Once again it's Hope vs Trine for the MIAA championship.  Trine has reached the championship game for the sixth straight year and will be the fifth straight matchup with Hope.  Each team has won 2 times against each other in the last 4 MIAA championship games.  They have alternated wins each year, so it's Trine's turn to take this one ;D.  Not an easy task, Hope is ramping it up big time, the shellacking of Calvin was impressive.  Trine had a much tougher game with Albion last night, it was back and forth in the 1st half.  Trine was able to put a little distance between them in the second half and held on for the win.  Albion only loses one senior from their roster, but that player is one of the best in the league in Rain Hinton.  However Albion has some really nice pieces to work with in the future, got some guards who can shoot it and also have a couple Freshman bigs (6'3 & 6'2) who could become difference makers if they continue to put in the work.   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on March 06, 2021, 03:49:10 PM
Hope up 37-24 at half.  As a Trine fan I've watched a lot of Hope-Trine WBB the last 6-7 yrs or so, and this year's Hope team is without a doubt the best ever.   Hope played an almost flawless 1st half.  Their defenseive pressure is unlike any other D3 team around.  They have forced a normally good ball handling Trine team into 17 first half turnovers which has resulted in Hope getting twice as many shot attempts as Trine.  You can't score if you don't have an opportunity to shoot, and that is what Hope does so well is take you out of your game.

We'll see if Trine can solve Hope's pressure defense any better in the second half.  Both teams are shooting well, especailly from 3 in the 1st half.  But you can really tell Hope is on a mission for their second consecutive unbeaten season!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on March 06, 2021, 04:44:02 PM
Hope 64  Trine 54.

Congratulations on back to back undefeated and MIAA championships to Hope WBB!  Well deserved.  Really feel bad that the they can't play the year out in a National Tournament, but what a way to go out.  Congrats to Trine on another good year, but Hope has our number, 6 straight losses to the Dutch.  Turnovers were the story of this game, Trine ended up with 28 of them.  We actually outshot Hope from the field and free throw line percentage wise, but that's 28 opportunities to not score and that was the difference.

Both teams with lots to look forward to.  Even though Hope loses their fantastic senior class, they will be very good again, they just reload.  Trine loses just 2 seniors, Shay Herbert and Sophia Kreag, so we'll be looking for bigger and better things to come next year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on March 06, 2021, 05:43:54 PM
Rebounding your own misses:
Hope = 29%
Trine = 16%

Rebounding your opponents' misses:
Hope = 84%
Trine = 79%

Trine had two players combine for 10 turnovers. Hope had 11 turnovers for the game.

Trine played wonderful defense in the 2nd half ; they were an extremely resilient team.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 06, 2021, 06:05:16 PM
Congrats to Hope and Trine, great for the MIAA to have two of the top teams in the country. 

Trine shot considerably better than Hope from the field, from 3 and from the line.  As TUAngola pointed out, turnovers equalized that to a large degree,  I note that the Dutch also had 15 offensive rebs vs 4 for Trine.  17 fewer turnovers and 11 more offensive rebounds make up that large advantage for Hope in shot attempts.  Hope also had 33 bench points (more than half its scoring) vs 8 for Trine, with 6 Hope reserves playing at least 16 minutes.  Trine is also deep, with 4 reserves playing 17 or more minutes.  But in this game at least, the Trine reserves did not pose an offensive threat.  We all know about Hope's senior class and I think the numbers show that it's that depth that has been the real difference maker the past couple of years.  You need fresh legs to play that defense all game long, then to have the reserves also be scoring threats and get on the offensive boards has made this team special.

Both teams should be good next year but I give the early edge to the Thunder.  They return a bit more and importantly the Dutch will be without the mobile 6-2 and 6-3 bigs they have enjoyed for several seasons.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HOPEful on March 07, 2021, 11:08:42 AM
Well... it's the most poetic ending that 2021 could have offered this senior class. Congrats to a truly special group of young women!

Quote from: Roundball999 on March 06, 2021, 06:05:16 PM
Both teams should be good next year but I give the early edge to the Thunder.  They return a bit more and importantly the Dutch will be without the mobile 6-2 and 6-3 bigs they have enjoyed for several seasons.

I would agree with an asterisk. Rumor has it, one or two of Hope's seniors are still considering using the extra year of eligibility and returning next year. If that happens, I'd place it pretty even.

Unfortunately, those seniors considering staying are not Olivia and Ashleigh, so they're certainly losing that size inside.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 08, 2021, 11:18:34 AM
Quote from: HOPEful on March 07, 2021, 11:08:42 AM
Well... it's the most poetic ending that 2021 could have offered this senior class. Congrats to a truly special group of young women!

Quote from: Roundball999 on March 06, 2021, 06:05:16 PM
Both teams should be good next year but I give the early edge to the Thunder.  They return a bit more and importantly the Dutch will be without the mobile 6-2 and 6-3 bigs they have enjoyed for several seasons.

I would agree with an asterisk. Rumor has it, one or two of Hope's seniors are still considering using the extra year of eligibility and returning next year. If that happens, I'd place it pretty even.

Unfortunately, those seniors considering staying are not Olivia and Ashleigh, so they're certainly losing that size inside.

Whether seniors return for a 5th year or not, Hope's "cupboard" isn't exactly bare or lacking size.  Sure, on most teams some of those "end of the bench" players are not likely to make an impact, but not the way Coach Mo uses his team.  Jemison and Velazquez (typically the 17th and 18th players to see the floow) appeared in 14 and 13 games repectively.

Returning varsity players:

Kasey DeSmit - 5-6 G
Meg Morehouse - 5-7 G
Ella McKinney - 5-10 G
Hannah Smith - 5-10 F
Claire Baguley - 5-11 G/F
Kate Majerus - 5-11 G/F
Savannah Feenstra - 6-1 F
Jessica Velazquez - 6-1 F
Raven Jemison - 6-3 C

Those returning varisty players this year accounted for:

41% of the total minutes
41% of the total points
45% of the rebounds
41% of the assists
45% of the steals
Shot 45% from the floor
Shot 41% from 3
Shot 61% from the FT line
Had a 1.17 A/TO ratio

And don't forget the JV team, that went 5-0 with an average margin of 37.6 pts, also has some size (4 players 6-0 or taller).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on March 08, 2021, 02:10:19 PM
So Hope has 4 returning sophmores:  Meg Morehouse, Claire Baguley, Ella McKinney, and Savannah Feenstra.  I remember that Meg and Claire were on last years' team.  Not sure about Ella and Savannah.  But here's a unique fact:

The sophs that played on last year's team are not only 45 - 0 for their career record, but have never been on a college team that lost a game.  That record will be rather difficult to maintain for the next two years!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 08, 2021, 02:37:42 PM
Quote from: AlwaysHope on March 08, 2021, 02:10:19 PM
So Hope has 4 returning sophmores:  Meg Morehouse, Claire Baguley, Ella McKinney, and Savannah Feenstra.  I remember that Meg and Claire were on last years' team.  Not sure about Ella and Savannah.  But here's a unique fact:

The sophs that played on last year's team are not only 45 - 0 for their career record, but have never been on a college team that lost a game.  That record will be rather difficult to maintain for the next two years!

Ella was also on varsity last year - appeared in 21 games.  I have been really impressed with her this year, great 3pt shooting (.429), a 1.73 A/TO, and the ability to post up and rebound (a 5-10 guard is a wonderful thing). 

Savannah played her freshman year at Bethel College where she earned All-Freshman honors in the Crossroad League after averaging 9.6 points and 6.3 rebounds per game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on March 08, 2021, 02:55:25 PM
So we may have lost up to 9 seniors.  But help is on the way:

https://www.mlive.com/highschoolsports/2021/02/with-attack-mode-always-on-abi-tarrant-storms-into-1000-point-club.html

Here's an article a year ago about Abi:

https://www.mlive.com/highschoolsports/2020/03/meet-mlives-2019-20-girls-basketball-dream-team-from-bay-city.html?utm_campaign=baycitytimes_sf&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwAR16Nq530logMulJ_9XLn3M2fhv0lnjCfidSNDX12XH-zwJuyu82eutwj-o


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on March 08, 2021, 03:38:00 PM
I was very impressed with McKinney and Baguley. The best players always play super fast, but look very under control doing it. You saw it with Bria Ebels. Same with Schoonveld. McKinney and Baguley looked to have a lot of control/restraint, but were always producing.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HOPEful on March 09, 2021, 07:33:57 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 08, 2021, 11:18:34 AM
Quote from: HOPEful on March 07, 2021, 11:08:42 AM
Well... it's the most poetic ending that 2021 could have offered this senior class. Congrats to a truly special group of young women!

Quote from: Roundball999 on March 06, 2021, 06:05:16 PM
Both teams should be good next year but I give the early edge to the Thunder.  They return a bit more and importantly the Dutch will be without the mobile 6-2 and 6-3 bigs they have enjoyed for several seasons.

I would agree with an asterisk. Rumor has it, one or two of Hope's seniors are still considering using the extra year of eligibility and returning next year. If that happens, I'd place it pretty even.

Unfortunately, those seniors considering staying are not Olivia and Ashleigh, so they're certainly losing that size inside.

Kasey DeSmit - 5-6 G
Meg Morehouse - 5-7 G
Ella McKinney - 5-10 G
Hannah Smith - 5-10 F
Claire Baguley - 5-11 G/F
Kate Majerus - 5-11 G/F
Savannah Feenstra - 6-1 F
Jessica Velazquez - 6-1 F
Raven Jemison - 6-3 C

For sure! There definitely needs to be some balance between lamenting the fact that the best senior class Hope has ever seen (and arguable one of the best ANYONE has ever seen) won't get to prove it in the NCAA tournament and that Hope still has some excellent players and is poise to remain very good next season.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 10, 2021, 10:23:49 AM
MIAA post season awards have been announced (link below):

Most Valuable Player
Kenedy Schoonveld, Hope (2)

Defensive Player of the Year
Olivia Voskuil, Hope (3)

2021 Women's Basketball All-MIAA First Team
Tara Bieniewicz, Trine (2)
Rain Hinton, Albion (4)
Sydney Muller, Hope
Kenedy Schoonveld, Hope (4)
Olivia Voskuil, Hope (3)
Kayla Wildman, Trine (2)

2021 Women's Basketball All-MIAA Second Team
Leah Harris, Calvin
Chelsea Palmer, Adrian
Taylor Sas, Alma
Kelsy Taylor, Trine
Gabby Timmer, Calvin (3)
Elena Welker, Albion

(#) Number of multi-time All-MIAA, including career first- and second-team honors

https://www.miaa.org/sports/wbkb/2020-21/releases/AllMIAA2021
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 12, 2021, 09:02:51 AM
Just learned that on the men's side #2 Trine is traveling to play #1 Randolph Macon on Sunday.  Kind of a defacto national championship.

Would love to see the Hope women get a similar opportunity versus East Texas Baptist.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 12, 2021, 09:12:29 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 12, 2021, 09:02:51 AM
Just learned that on the men's side #2 Trine is traveling to play #1 Randolph Macon on Sunday.  Kind of a defacto national championship.

Would love to see the Hope women get a similar opportunity versus East Texas Baptist.

Would love to see that.  Wasn't there some chatter along those lines a couple weeks back?  ETBU still has their conference tournament this Sunday/Monday..
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 12, 2021, 09:53:47 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 12, 2021, 09:12:29 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 12, 2021, 09:02:51 AM
Just learned that on the men's side #2 Trine is traveling to play #1 Randolph Macon on Sunday.  Kind of a defacto national championship.

Would love to see the Hope women get a similar opportunity versus East Texas Baptist.

Would love to see that.  Wasn't there some chatter along those lines a couple weeks back?  ETBU still has their conference tournament this Sunday/Monday..

The Trine-RMC game has been in the works for a while.  Not sure how long it's been fully confirmed - I suspect the announcement was timed so as not to detract from the ODAC tournament, which seems like a very classy move.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 15, 2021, 01:37:12 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 12, 2021, 09:12:29 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 12, 2021, 09:02:51 AM
Just learned that on the men's side #2 Trine is traveling to play #1 Randolph Macon on Sunday.  Kind of a defacto national championship.

Would love to see the Hope women get a similar opportunity versus East Texas Baptist.

Would love to see that.  Wasn't there some chatter along those lines a couple weeks back?  ETBU still has their conference tournament this Sunday/Monday..

Hope worked quite a bit to try to get something together in the form of a tournament for this past weekend, but with many conferences changing their dates because of the pandemic, it takes some additional flexibility to put a postseason event together and it sounds like that flexibility wasn't possible.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 15, 2021, 04:11:18 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 15, 2021, 01:37:12 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 12, 2021, 09:12:29 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 12, 2021, 09:02:51 AM
Just learned that on the men's side #2 Trine is traveling to play #1 Randolph Macon on Sunday.  Kind of a defacto national championship.

Would love to see the Hope women get a similar opportunity versus East Texas Baptist.

Would love to see that.  Wasn't there some chatter along those lines a couple weeks back?  ETBU still has their conference tournament this Sunday/Monday..

Hope worked quite a bit to try to get something together in the form of a tournament for this past weekend, but with many conferences changing their dates because of the pandemic, it takes some additional flexibility to put a postseason event together and it sounds like that flexibility wasn't possible.

Well that's disappointing - of course we are all used to that unfortunately.  Glad they at least made the effort to get it to happen.  Sounds like many schools aren't open to having their teams travel anywhere that would require an overnight stay.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 15, 2021, 04:32:22 PM
Since it appears the season is actually done (was holding on to the Hope of 1 or 2 more games), I will share the following about this Hope Senior class.  Team details first - since they are such a great example of team play (will post some individual stuff later):


Team (17-18 - 20-21)     Won   Lost     %
Overall record      98       0.933
Home      52       0.929
Away      37       0.925
Neutral      12       1.000
MIAA play      52       0.945
Rivalry      11       1.000
MIAA Tournament      8       0.889
NCAA Tournament      6       0.750

Just fabulous results, but I think the following may be even more remarkable (certainly points to a class full of contributors):


    Min   Max     Avg
Total Games Played      39   105      81
Minutes Per Game      10.0   22.8      15.8

9 seniors who played in a total of 748 games, and the lowest minutes per game was 10, and they averaged 15.8 min per game per player as a class!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on March 15, 2021, 05:12:03 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 15, 2021, 04:32:22 PM
Since it appears the season is actually done (was holding on to the Hope of 1 or 2 more games), I will share the following about this Hope Senior class.  Team details first - since they are such a great example of team play (will post some individual stuff later):


Team (17-18 - 20-21)     Won   Lost     %
Overall record      98       0.933
Home      52       0.929
Away      37       0.925
Neutral      12       1.000
MIAA play      52       0.945
Rivalry      11       1.000
MIAA Tournament      8       0.889
NCAA Tournament      6       0.750

Just fabulous results, but I think the following may be even more remarkable (certainly points to a class full of contributors):


    Min   Max     Avg
Total Games Played      39   105      81
Minutes Per Game      10.0   22.8      15.8

9 seniors who played in a total of 748 games, and the lowest minutes per game was 10, and they averaged 15.8 min per game per player as a class!!

Thanks for pulling this together.  Remarkable achievements for the senior class but also a testament to the remarkable depth and balance typical of Coach Morehouse's teams and his coaching style that utilizes the entire roster.  You'll probably never see a Dutch player near the top of any NCAA individual stats when no one plays much more than 20 minutes a game.  Great team concept.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HOPEful on April 06, 2021, 02:08:49 PM
Another well written article on Hope's women...

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/columnists/jeff-seidel/2021/04/04/ncaa-final-four-division-iii-basketball-canceled-hope-college/7073906002/ (https://www.freep.com/story/sports/columnists/jeff-seidel/2021/04/04/ncaa-final-four-division-iii-basketball-canceled-hope-college/7073906002/)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Titan Q on April 16, 2021, 10:35:48 AM
My interview with Brian Morehouse...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0TBj_8Sgl0
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on April 17, 2021, 08:14:44 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on April 16, 2021, 10:35:48 AM
My interview with Brian Morehouse...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0TBj_8Sgl0
Excellent interview, Titan Q . . . both the interviewer (so well done) and the interviewee.  :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on April 21, 2021, 10:20:08 AM
D3Hoops All Region Awards are out:

https://www.d3hoops.com/awards/all-region/2020-21/index

Great Lakes Region:

Co-Player of the year: Kenedy Schoonveld, Hope
Coach of the year: Brian Morehouse, Hope

1st team: Kenedy Schoonveld, Hope; Olivia Voskuil, Hope
2nd team: Tara Bieniewicz, Trine
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on April 29, 2021, 01:03:27 PM
Congrats to Kennedy Schoonveld, Hope for being name d3hoops.com second team All-American, again.

First Team
19--Brandi Dawson, Trine
13--Carissa Verkaik, Calvin
12--Carissa Verkaik, Calvin
11--Carissa Verkaik, Calvin
10--Carrie Snikkers, Hope
03--Amanda Kerkstra, Hope


Second Team
21--Kenedy Schoonveld, Hope
20--Kenedy Schoonveld, Hope
18--Brandi Dawson, Trine
16--Maura McAfee, Hope


Third Team
18--Francesca Buchanan, Hope
17--Brandi Dawson, Trine
10--Carisa Verkaik, Calvin
07--Lisa Winkle, Calvin
05--Sarah Caskey, Albion
99--Ellen Bradbury, Alma


Fourth Team
19--Francesca Buchanan, Hope
15--Breanna Verkaik, Calvin
14--Maura McAfee, Hope
11--Carrie Snikkers, Hope
09--Carrie Snikkers, Hope
06--Bria Ebels, Hope


Honorable Mention
15--Maura McAfee, Hope
08--Jordyn Boles, Hope
06--Lisa Winkle, Calvin
99--Ann Terpstra, Adrian
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on April 29, 2021, 01:21:12 PM
And since it hasn't been noted here yet, I'd add congratulations to both Kenedy Schoonveld and Olivia Voskuil for being named WBCA First Team All-Americans.  Congratulations also to Coach Morehouse for being named WBCA national coach of the year for the 2nd year running.



Quote from: sac on April 29, 2021, 01:03:27 PM
Congrats to Kennedy Schoonveld, Hope for being name d3hoops.com second team All-American, again.

First Team
19--Brandi Dawson, Trine
13--Carissa Verkaik, Calvin
12--Carissa Verkaik, Calvin
11--Carissa Verkaik, Calvin
10--Carrie Snikkers, Hope
03--Amanda Kerkstra, Hope


Second Team
21--Kennedy Schoonveld, Hope
20--Kennedy Schoonveld, Hope
18--Brandi Dawson, Trine
16--Maura McAfee, Hope


Third Team
18--Francesca Buchanan, Hope
17--Brandi Dawson, Trine
10--Carisa Verkaik, Calvin
07--Lisa Winkle, Calvin
05--Sarah Caskey, Albion
99--Ellen Bradbury, Alma


Fourth Team
19--Francesca Buchanan, Hope
15--Breanna Verkaik, Calvin
14--Maura McAfee, Hope
11--Carrie Snikkers, Hope
09--Carrie Snikkers, Hope
06--Bria Ebels, Hope


Honorable Mention
15--Maura McAfee, Hope
08--Jordyn Boles, Hope
06--Lisa Winkle, Calvin
99--Ann Terpstra, Adrian
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HOPEful on June 24, 2021, 09:54:09 PM
According to multiple reputable sources, Sydney Muller and Olivia Voskuil are living together in an apartment in downtown Holland and intend to both return next year and use their additional year of eligibility. Oddly enough, their other roommate is graduated Calvin goalie Amy Kliewer.

In my extremely biased opinion, the return of these these two puts Hope right into the national championship contender conversation once again.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on September 13, 2021, 10:12:01 PM
Actually, the news above is even better.  Heard from a very reliable source that another senior starter from last year is also coming back for that extra year.  Should be a great season!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HOPEful on September 15, 2021, 07:38:51 AM
Quote from: AlwaysHope on September 13, 2021, 10:12:01 PM
Actually, the news above is even better.  Heard from a very reliable source that another senior starter from last year is also coming back for that extra year.  Should be a great season!

I heard similar too, but have yet to hear it from a source reliable enough I was wiling to pass on via this public forum :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on September 21, 2021, 04:12:17 PM
The Facebook page for the Hope Women's Team adding a bit of fuel to this fire yesterday.  They posted a quick video touting it is 25 days until practice starts (Oct 15th).  The tag line on the post was "5 + 20 = 25".  The video itself showed Voskuil (#5) and Schoonveld (#20) during a pre-game intro last year.   :) ;D ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on September 21, 2021, 09:16:47 PM
How about Sydney, Olivia, and Kenedy coming back, with this young lady handling the point:

https://www.mlive.com/highschoolsports/2021/02/with-attack-mode-always-on-abi-tarrant-storms-into-1000-point-club.html

Note the 5'8" point guard is the all-time leader in rebounds for her high school.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roundball999 on September 26, 2021, 07:27:08 AM
Nice Facebook photo yesterday from Hope's usual wonderful work with the West Michigan Miracle League.  Some familiar faces :) 

https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/242881020_10159356073797527_1295478575515094238_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=L5oj_Y_yutgAX9iPx2O&tn=NIvHV-4phckFbzrM&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=510c92b636e1e20ba1e39bf9f15e25d7&oe=617444A6
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on October 18, 2021, 06:26:31 PM
Pre-season D3hoops.com Top 25 poll is out:

Hope #1, with 21 1st place votes, #2 East Texas Baptist with 2 1st place votes.  Trine comes in at #3.  No other MIAA squad shown any love, I thought Albion would at least get some votes, maybe Calvin.  The powerhouse NESCAC schools, Tufts, Bowdoin and Amherst are all ranked too but since none played last year they come in ranked a little lower than usual.  I beleive all 3 will climb in the rankings once they start playing.

It has been confirmed that 3 Hope seniors are coming back for a 5th year: Schoonveld, Voskuil and Muller.  As a Trine fan I am torn, yes I do want to see these girls play in person one more time since we weren't able to last year.  And as a Trine fan all I want to say is...ugh!!  ::)  I thought this would be our year to maybe beat Hope with our best players all 4th year seniors.  Now it will be very unlikely with the 3 Hope superstars all returning.

But seriously I'm more happy than not to see Hope with their squad mostly intact from last year as it will be National Championship or bust for the girls this year.  Get ready for some epic battles between Hope and Trine again in 2021-2022.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on October 19, 2021, 12:08:08 AM
Hey, I called the 3 seniors returning in Sept. (above)  Actually one of their Mothers told a friend of mine.  So does the publicized freshman get the start at point?  Who will the other forward be?  Lots of options!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on October 19, 2021, 12:27:02 AM
I would expect DeSmit to start at PG and Majerus at Forward.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HOPEful on October 19, 2021, 07:47:40 AM
Quote from: jspiii on October 19, 2021, 12:27:02 AM
I would expect DeSmit to start at PG and Majerus at Forward.

I would expect a very typical Morehouse deep rotation where the word "starters" means a lot less relative to minutes played than most programs. I'm thinking 10-12 girls again will get substantial playing time.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on October 26, 2021, 09:38:36 AM
Hope has their roster posted:

https://athletics.hope.edu/sports/wbkb/2021-22/roster

6 seniors (3 5th year, and 3 4th year)
4 Freshmen
16 total - 11 of them between 5-10 - 6-3
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jspiii on October 29, 2021, 10:40:06 PM
Hope women beat Ferris State women 69-60. The game is listed as an exhibition game but very energetic play from both sides.

Hope first unit, Majerus, Schoonveld, Muller, Voskuil & DeSmit played a little better than Ferris State's first unit. Hope's second unit of Morehouse, Baguley, McKinney, Feenstra & Smith were markedly better than Ferris's second unit helped by Feenstra's game leading 16 points of which 10 points were in the 2nd quarter. The 9 point deficit was the closest Ferris got after the 1st quarter. Hope's biggest lead was 17 points in the 2nd quarter.

Kurncz, Jemison, Garner, Bellows, Tarrant & Lee did not get into the game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on November 01, 2021, 07:30:21 PM
D3hoops.com pre-season women's All American teams announced today.

Kenedy Schoonveld - Hope - 1st team
Tara Bieniewicz - Trine - 3rd team
Olivia Voskuil - Hope - 4th team

Seniors and Graduate Students represent 22 of the top 26 players...only 4 underclassmen.  There will be a lot of veteran teams with many choosing to come back for that extra 5th year of eligibility.

Trine opens exhibition schedule with a game at D1 Butler University in Indianapolis on Thursday.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on November 04, 2021, 09:49:37 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on November 01, 2021, 07:30:21 PM
D3hoops.com pre-season women's All American teams announced today.

Kenedy Schoonveld - Hope - 1st team
Tara Bieniewicz - Trine - 3rd team
Olivia Voskuil - Hope - 4th team

Seniors and Graduate Students represent 22 of the top 26 players...only 4 underclassmen.  There will be a lot of veteran teams with many choosing to come back for that extra 5th year of eligibility.

Trine opens exhibition schedule with a game at D1 Butler University in Indianapolis on Thursday.
Final:  Butler 68 Trine 61
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 05, 2021, 08:57:50 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on November 04, 2021, 09:49:37 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on November 01, 2021, 07:30:21 PM
D3hoops.com pre-season women's All American teams announced today.

Kenedy Schoonveld - Hope - 1st team
Tara Bieniewicz - Trine - 3rd team
Olivia Voskuil - Hope - 4th team

Seniors and Graduate Students represent 22 of the top 26 players...only 4 underclassmen.  There will be a lot of veteran teams with many choosing to come back for that extra 5th year of eligibility.

Trine opens exhibition schedule with a game at D1 Butler University in Indianapolis on Thursday.
Final:  Butler 68 Trine 61

Impressive!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: TUAngola on November 05, 2021, 06:28:46 PM
Took me some time to find a site with a box score...finally found one this afternoon.  15 of the 18 girls on the roster played. Buter with 3 times as many free throw attempts as Trine.  19 turnovers isn't bad against a D1 team, Hope always turns us over way more!!  Impressive stat lines for Bieniewicz and Taylor.  Wildman struggled from 3.  Of the necomers Sidney Wagner had a good 1st game.  As a freshman I think she'll get significant playing time as the season goes on...probably play with the 2nd platoon.  The new starter to replace graduated senior Shay Herbert is junior Sam Underhill.  She does deserve to start, but she was so good off the bench the first 2 years for Trine.  It does leave us more undersized with the 2nd unit.  Regular season opens next weekend for the gals.



Trine       14     9      14      24            61
Butler     15     21     18      14           68

NAME   POS   MIN   FGM-A   3PM-A   FTM-A   OREB   REB   AST   ST   BLK   TO   PF   PTS
MAKAYLA ARDIS   G   14   1-2   1-1   0-0                 1   1   0   0   0   4   2   3
TARA BIENIEWICZ   G   28   7-12   6-11   0-0                 0   3   1   0   0   3   0   20
KELSY TAYLOR           F   18   7-9   0-0   0-1                 3   9   1   1   0   2   3   14
SAM UNDERHILL   F   21   2-7   0-0   2-2                 2   10   1   1   0   1   3   6
KAYLA WILDMAN   G   23   1-10   0-7   0-0                 0   3   5   0   2   2   0   2
ALYSSA ARGYLE           G   16   0-3   0-3   1-2                 0    0   3   0   0   1   2   1
KAYLEE ARGYLE           G   16   1-4   1-2   0-0                 1   3   2   0   0   2   0   3
BROOKE BRAUHER   F   9   0-3   0-2   0-0                 0   4   1   1   1   0   3   0
SIERRA HINDS           G   5   0-1   0-1   0-0                 0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0
NATALEE KUNSE   G   6   0-0   0-0   0-0                 0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0
MACAYLA MCGOWAN   G   1   0-0   0-0   0-0                 0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0
KATIE SLONEKER   G   9   0-2   0-2   0-0                 1   4   0   0   0   1   1   0
SOPHIE SLONEKER   G   10   0-1   0-0   0-0                 0   1   0   1   0   1   0   0
RACHEL STEWART   G   14   1-6   0-0   1-2                 1   3   1   2   0   1   4   3
SIDNEY WAGNER   G   10   4-5   1-1   0-0                 0   2   0   1   0   0   4   9
Total                                   24-65   9-30   4-7               13   49   15   7   3   19   22   61
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 07, 2021, 04:29:25 PM
The 19th season of Hoopsville debuts tonight!

Tune in as we talk to the two preseason #1 teams in Division III basketball plus two of the top experts in the division. We also take a look at how the season may unfold and how the opening weekend was just a teaser of things to come.

We talk some of the things that we are looking forward to and the question marks we will be considering from now until champions are claimed in March.

Tune in starting at 7:00 PM ET right here - www.d3hoopsville.com

Guests on the BlueFrame Technology Hoopsville Hotline include:
- Brian Morehouse, head coach of #1 Hope women's basketball
- Gordan Mann, D3hoops.com Senior Editor
- Josh Merkel, head coach of #1 Randolph-Macon men's basketball
- Pat Coleman, D3hoops.com Editor in Chief
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on November 07, 2021, 07:48:56 PM
Well done Mo! Go Hope!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 10, 2021, 03:15:01 PM
MIAA Coaches poll is announced:

1.   Hope 64 (8)
2.   Trine 57 (1)
3.   Albion 45
4.   Calvin 44
5.   Alma 40
6.   Adrian 27
7.   Saint Mary's 24
8.   Olivet 12
9.   Kalamazoo   11   

Link to the full story:

https://www.miaa.org/sports/wbkb/2021-22/releases/PreseasonPoll
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 01, 2021, 10:36:41 AM
Excited for the opening of league play tonight, and for Hope specifically a rivalry game to boot.  Hope has been very dominant thus far, so it will be interesting to see how they do against a good Calvin team with the pressure of a rivalry game (or is it only us fans who feel that pressure). 
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on December 01, 2021, 11:24:48 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on December 01, 2021, 10:36:41 AM
Excited for the opening of league play tonight, and for Hope specifically a rivalry game to boot.  Hope has been very dominant thus far, so it will be interesting to see how they do against a good Calvin team with the pressure of a rivalry game (or is it only us fans who feel that pressure).

Calvin's two losses were both close games to the number 12 and 15 teams in the country. Then again, Hope beat the now number 21 team in the country 83-55...

So much of Calvin's offensive strategy starts and ends with Timmer. Neither DePauw or UWW really had an answer for her. In the game against DePauw, she played 36 minutes and had 23 points and 11 rebounds. Against Whitewater, it was 28 points and 19 rebounds in 33 minutes.  It will be interesting to see if Timmer can find anywhere close to that kind of success against Kate and Olivia. I'm biased of course, but I don't think she will. Lilly Edwards, Baldwin Wallace's excellent WBCA All American Honorable mention forward, had a very difficult time and I'd guess Hope gives Timmer the same treatment. If Timmer is contained, Coors and Clearly will have a much more difficult time but will need to step up in a big way to carry the Knights. And with all due respect to Stephanie and Sydney, I will take Kenedy, Kasey, and Hope's Sydney in a shoot out over just about anyone in D3.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on December 01, 2021, 11:25:13 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on December 01, 2021, 10:36:41 AM
Excited for the opening of league play tonight, and for Hope specifically a rivalry game to boot.  Hope has been very dominant thus far, so it will be interesting to see how they do against a good Calvin team with the pressure of a rivalry game (or is it only us fans who feel that pressure). 

It will be good to get that first league game under their belt, though it does worry me a bit that it's a Rivalry game.  Looks to me like Calvin has been very solid so far this year, it would be good (but not for my heart) if Calvin gives the Dutch a stern test at this point in the season.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 01, 2021, 03:16:07 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on December 01, 2021, 11:24:48 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on December 01, 2021, 10:36:41 AM
Excited for the opening of league play tonight, and for Hope specifically a rivalry game to boot.  Hope has been very dominant thus far, so it will be interesting to see how they do against a good Calvin team with the pressure of a rivalry game (or is it only us fans who feel that pressure).

Calvin's two losses were both close games to the number 12 and 15 teams in the country. Then again, Hope beat the now number 21 team in the country 83-55...

So much of Calvin's offensive strategy starts and ends with Timmer. Neither DePauw or UWW really had an answer for her. In the game against DePauw, she played 36 minutes and had 23 points and 11 rebounds. Against Whitewater, it was 28 points and 19 rebounds in 33 minutes.  It will be interesting to see if Timmer can find anywhere close to that kind of success against Kate and Olivia. I'm biased of course, but I don't think she will. Lilly Edwards, Baldwin Wallace's excellent WBCA All American Honorable mention forward, had a very difficult time and I'd guess Hope gives Timmer the same treatment. If Timmer is contained, Coors and Clearly will have a much more difficult time but will need to step up in a big way to carry the Knights. And with all due respect to Stephanie and Sydney, I will take Kenedy, Kasey, and Hope's Sydney in a shoot out over just about anyone in D3.

Totall agree about Timmer.   She can be a very dominating force - 6 games into her senior season she already has 1175 points, 672 reb, and 101 blocks.  She has also had two really good games against Hope in her career (16pts-13reb-8blks and 16pts-11reb-3blks) but both of those came in her freshman year.  Recent seasons she has certainly struggled against Hope (of course when you win 50 in a row, lots of people have struggled) basically averging 1/2 of normal pts, reb, blks, against the Dutch.  I suspect Gabby was looking forward to a Voskuil/Schoonveld free senior season.

Having said all that, it's a rivalry game and Hope better bring their A game, cause I have no doubt Gabby and all her teammates will.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: jspiii on December 01, 2021, 10:19:28 PM
Does anyone know the status of Freshman Abi Tarrant?
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 02, 2021, 07:54:17 AM
Dominant performace by Hope last night, with what has become a typical very hot first half for the Dutch.  At the half Hope lead 54-24, while shooting 60% from the floor (18-30) and 61.5% from 3 (8-13), which included a 35ft banked in 3 at the buzzer by Morehouse.  While the team as a whole has been very hot shooting this year (leading the nation in FG%), Schoonveld has struggled with finding her shot (0-5 last night), something I sure she will get figured out soon.   

Player of the game has to be Olivia Voskuil: 19 pts - 13 reb - 4 stl - 4 blk - in 18 minutes!
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on December 02, 2021, 08:54:43 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on December 02, 2021, 07:54:17 AM
Dominant performance by Hope last night, and an amazing stat line for Olivia Voskuil: 19 pts - 13 reb - 4 stl - 4 blk - in 18 minutes!

Gabby wasn't able to get anything going all night. The score was 13-2 before she got her first points, all 13 points coming from Olivia and Kate. Calvin had no answer for how to run the offense when going to Gabby wasn't working. I don't think the defense of Olivia and Kate can be overstated.

If Hope is going to lose a game this year, it won't be to a one dimensional team. It will be to a team that moves the ball around extremely well and finds the open player capable of hitting the shot. And when you get 7 blocks and 18 steals, the lanes and open shots aren't there. This team is just special.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 02, 2021, 12:22:15 PM
Got to thinking about PPP (points per possession) which is one kind of efficiency ranking.  You can calculate it for both a teams offense as well as defense (using the opponents data).  Typically a PPP rating over 1.0 is consdered to be good, over 1.1 and you are elite.  Team defensive PPP under .90 is good, and below .80 is elite (we can debate those ranges).  Ulitmately is comes down to the difference between your Off PPP and your Def PPP.

Through yesterday's games, here are the numbers in the MIAA:




Team     Offense   Defense   Diff
Hope     1.229   0.602   0.627
Trine     1.139   0.759   0.38
Albion     0.982   0.814   0.168
Calvin     0.95   0.814   0.136
Alma     0.934   0.914   0.02
Adrian     0.837   0.955   -0.118
Kalamazoo     0.79   0.927   -0.137
St Mary's     0.802   0.977   -0.175
Olivet     0.721   1.076   -0.355
 
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: NW Hope Fan on December 09, 2021, 08:21:12 PM
Such a great team. High expectations for this year. Love being able to watch games online...
First half observation tonight. Stifling D, sketchy layups. Those turnover fast breaks are awesome, but set up an offense if you can't make the puppies.  ;)  Go Hope!
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on December 10, 2021, 12:22:33 PM
Through 8 games, Hope's starters are averaging just under 18 minutes per game and their next five are averaging 15.5 minutes per game. Seeing as the game is usually soundly in hand 33 minutes in, they are clearly a 10 deep roster.

My point/question is... I believe both Olivia and Kenedy are player of the year worthy players. Olivia is the best defender I have ever seen and Kenedy is just fun to watch fun the offense. But despite both being truly deserving of All American honors, will that 18 minutes per game be a deterrent from them getting votes. Imagine how gaudy their numbers would be at another school where they were playing 30+ minutes per game.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Jester1390 on December 10, 2021, 01:05:29 PM
On the player who is a great defender I have to explain this to my family as well as our daughter is a above average defender who has always been pass first shoot second and sometimes never lol but who's defense keeps her on the floor for 25 minutes plus most games. A lot of people on here are knowledgeable and realize more to game then scoring.  The argument would be what is more valuable.  A player who scores 18 on 5-17 shooting and her matchup scores 12 or more. Or a player who scores 8 on 3-6 shooting but her matchup is 4pts or less.

It's a interesting question of course great players do both but if you had to pick one which way would you go. You need points to win but where is the trade off point where the scorer is now a liability tot the team   I know plus minus in individual matchups are being followed more. Now zones skew that but if it's man to man you can get a fair ideal even though help defense might lead to a individual that a top defender is defending to scoring

As far as assists players go. As I have always told the kid.  The scorers will always get the cheers and adulation and the the one who made the half course bounce pass will get  good job and you ha e to be ok with that
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on December 10, 2021, 01:42:34 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on December 10, 2021, 12:22:33 PM
Through 8 games, Hope's starters are averaging just under 18 minutes per game and their next five are averaging 15.5 minutes per game. Seeing as the game is usually soundly in hand 33 minutes in, they are clearly a 10 deep roster.

My point/question is... I believe both Olivia and Kenedy are player of the year worthy players. Olivia is the best defender I have ever seen and Kenedy is just fun to watch fun the offense. But despite both being truly deserving of All American honors, will that 18 minutes per game be a deterrent from them getting votes. Imagine how gaudy their numbers would be at another school where they were playing 30+ minutes per game.

Well, the good news is both WBCA (Kenedy and Olivia) and D3Hoops (Kenedy) had them on their AA teams last year with similarly modest minutes and numbers.  Both scored around 10 ppg in 19 minutes last year, Kenedy had exceptional 49% shooting from 2 and 48% from 3 with 3.6 rpg and strong 3:1 assist/turnover ratio.  Olivia had 6.3 rpg to go along with her game altering defense.  This year is still early but their minutes are actually down a bit while stats are up on a 40 minute basis with Olivia scoring significantly more this year, mainly due to torrid shooting; 56% from the field and 6-6 from 3 pt range.  Kenedy's rebounding up quite a bit and she has an even more stellar 4.4 assist ratio.  So voters have already shown they can look past the minutes-limited numbers for AA selection and I'd suggest their cases are even stronger this year so far.  Maybe that also bodes well for POY consideration; but will 2 candidates from the same school potentially dilute POY votes?
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Jester1390 on December 10, 2021, 02:23:52 PM
I should have also added when your considering the difference between a offensive and defensive player is a he defensive player is usually holding a top scorer down
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 10, 2021, 02:51:48 PM
Interesting discussion, and I certainly hope those making any selections at the end of the season are properly considering the minutes played, etc.  - but of course we have lots of games to play before those decisions are needed.

That being said, I think it interesting to look at how Voskuil and Schoonveld are performing this year versus prior campaigns (as a point of reference).  I decided to use EFF (a stat used to calculate a players efficiency).  The calculation is EFF = PTS+REB+AST+STL+BLK - Missed FG - TO. This can then be divided by # of games for a per game average (EFF/G) or you can do it based on minutes, scaling it to EFF per 40 minutes (EFF/40). 


Kenedy Schoonveld           
Season     EFF   EFF/G   EFF/40   Min/G
2017-2018     381   12.29   21.02   23.4
2018-2019     357   12.31   20.2   24.4
2019-2020     375   12.93   23.81   21.7
2020-2021     191   11.94   24.57   19.4
2021-2022     107   13.38   29.52   18.1
             
Olivia Voskuil           
Season     EFF   EFF/G   EFF/40   Min/G
2017-2018     294   9.48   26.31   14.4
2018-2019     312   10.76   22.13   19.4
2019-2020     338   11.66   25.18   18.5
2020-2021     246   15.38   32.16   19.1
2021-2022     167   20.88   47.38   17.6

Looking at EFF/G, Schoonveld has been so consistent every season, while Voskuil has been on a steady increase.  As others have said, fabulous start to the season for both!
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: pointlem on December 12, 2021, 06:02:16 PM
Yes, Hope's returning seniors are having an amazing year, with Olivia Voskuil's total game--her mobility, defense, and shooting--all noticeably advanced even on last year. All in all, the team is amazing to watch, and especially so for its trapping, turnover-causing defense and resulting fast breaks. A credit to the coaching as well.

Next Saturday is their best regular season chance to see their win streak end, playing at Massey rated #3 Trine, with Massey predicting a close outcome (Hope 70, Trine 65). The Hope women haven't faced many tough games, but hopefully is readied by the level of daily competition in practice, with a second five that could itself be a ranked team.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 12, 2021, 06:23:57 PM
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For some programs, the start to the 2021-22 season has been better than expected. For others, it has been recording breaking.

On Sunday's edition of Hoopsville, we chat with coaches of programs whose teams are off to strong starts. Some of those starts might have been expected, but not all of them.

We chat with Heidelberg and RPI men's basketball program plus York (Pa.) and No. 7 Trine women's programs.

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Guests List (order subject to change):
- Heidelberg men's coach Andy Bucheit
- York (Pa.) women's coach Betsy Witman
- #7 Trine women's coach Andy Rang
- RPI men's coach Mark Gilbride

Hoopsville is hosted by Dave McHugh from the NABC Studios. It is presented by D3hoops.com and thanks to our partners at the WBCA and BlueFrame Technology.

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Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on December 12, 2021, 07:50:30 PM
Quote from: pointlem on December 12, 2021, 06:02:16 PM
Next Saturday is their best regular season chance to see their win streak end, playing at Massey rated #3 Trine, with Massey predicting a close outcome (Hope 70, Trine 65). The Hope women haven't faced many tough games, but hopefully is readied by the level of daily competition in practice, with a second five that could itself be a ranked team.

I am very interested to see how Trine approaches this game. I assume Hope will look to absolutely shut down Kelsy and take away Trine's inside game entirely while swarming to Tara and attempting to trap her every time she touches the ball. With effective ball movement, there could be some open looks for Kayla, Makayla, Rachel, and the Argyle sisters.

So far this season, Hope's opponents have been completely lost on offense after Hope has taken away their best player(s)... I expect Trine to respond better. That being said, Olivia's game has improved to the point where I haven't seen as dominant a D3 player since Sydney Moss. But that's clearly the statement of someone who prioritized defense over offense.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on December 14, 2021, 05:40:44 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on December 12, 2021, 07:50:30 PM
Quote from: pointlem on December 12, 2021, 06:02:16 PM
Next Saturday is their best regular season chance to see their win streak end, playing at Massey rated #3 Trine, with Massey predicting a close outcome (Hope 70, Trine 65). The Hope women haven't faced many tough games, but hopefully is readied by the level of daily competition in practice, with a second five that could itself be a ranked team.

I am very interested to see how Trine approaches this game. I assume Hope will look to absolutely shut down Kelsy and take away Trine's inside game entirely while swarming to Tara and attempting to trap her every time she touches the ball. With effective ball movement, there could be some open looks for Kayla, Makayla, Rachel, and the Argyle sisters.

So far this season, Hope's opponents have been completely lost on offense after Hope has taken away their best player(s)... I expect Trine to respond better. That being said, Olivia's game has improved to the point where I haven't seen as dominant a D3 player since Sydney Moss. But that's clearly the statement of someone who prioritized defense over offense.

Few days away from the Hope game this Saturday.  I wish the MIAA schedule makers would have scheduled this one with students on campus.  With finals finishing up the next couple of days most of our students will be on their way home for Christmas break.  The atmosphere won't be the same without the Blue Crew and Pep Band.  Hope fans always travel well so I am certain that they will have a large contingent at the game, which is great.  Coach Andy Rang was on the Hoopsville podcast this week and he talked about what it would take to make a game of it against Hope.  #1, limit turnovers.  There is no other D3 team that plays defense like Hope, it's hard to simulate their pressure in practice.  He said he'd rather we turn the ball over with a 5 second count or a pass out of bounds then to let Hope steal and go uncontested down the court for a layup.  That way we'd have time to set up our defense.  We're a good defensive team too, but not like Hope.  #2, defensive rebounding.  Again, no other D3 team crashes the offensive boards like Hope.  We'll need to limit extra shot attempts on the defensive end.  Honestly I don't see a close game, I've watched enough Hope games on the internet this year to say that they won't lose a game.  They go 15 deep and don't have much drop off in production.  They are that good!  In fact I think they'd probably win or at least be competitive in games against Mid-Major D1 teams.  If we keep it to a 15-20 point game that would be an accomplishment.  I'll be there cheering the Thunder on no matter what.     
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 15, 2021, 09:03:53 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on December 14, 2021, 05:40:44 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on December 12, 2021, 07:50:30 PM
Quote from: pointlem on December 12, 2021, 06:02:16 PM
Next Saturday is their best regular season chance to see their win streak end, playing at Massey rated #3 Trine, with Massey predicting a close outcome (Hope 70, Trine 65). The Hope women haven't faced many tough games, but hopefully is readied by the level of daily competition in practice, with a second five that could itself be a ranked team.

I am very interested to see how Trine approaches this game. I assume Hope will look to absolutely shut down Kelsy and take away Trine's inside game entirely while swarming to Tara and attempting to trap her every time she touches the ball. With effective ball movement, there could be some open looks for Kayla, Makayla, Rachel, and the Argyle sisters.

So far this season, Hope's opponents have been completely lost on offense after Hope has taken away their best player(s)... I expect Trine to respond better. That being said, Olivia's game has improved to the point where I haven't seen as dominant a D3 player since Sydney Moss. But that's clearly the statement of someone who prioritized defense over offense.

Few days away from the Hope game this Saturday.  I wish the MIAA schedule makers would have scheduled this one with students on campus.  With finals finishing up the next couple of days most of our students will be on their way home for Christmas break.  The atmosphere won't be the same without the Blue Crew and Pep Band.  Hope fans always travel well so I am certain that they will have a large contingent at the game, which is great.  Coach Andy Rang was on the Hoopsville podcast this week and he talked about what it would take to make a game of it against Hope.  #1, limit turnovers.  There is no other D3 team that plays defense like Hope, it's hard to simulate their pressure in practice.  He said he'd rather we turn the ball over with a 5 second count or a pass out of bounds then to let Hope steal and go uncontested down the court for a layup.  That way we'd have time to set up our defense.  We're a good defensive team too, but not like Hope.  #2, defensive rebounding.  Again, no other D3 team crashes the offensive boards like Hope.  We'll need to limit extra shot attempts on the defensive end.  Honestly I don't see a close game, I've watched enough Hope games on the internet this year to say that they won't lose a game.  They go 15 deep and don't have much drop off in production.  They are that good!  In fact I think they'd probably win or at least be competitive in games against Mid-Major D1 teams.  If we keep it to a 15-20 point game that would be an accomplishment.  I'll be there cheering the Thunder on no matter what.   

An "empty" campus is really a shame for a game like this, but I also believe there will still be a good sized, loud crowd supporting both teams.  One concern I have for Hope is that this is their first road game this season.  Not that they aren't familiar with playing at Trine, but it is a different place to play, shooting backgrounds, etc.  I doubt it will make a big impact, but after 9 straight dominant home games it could be something they have to manage. 

That being said, Hope's depth is just phenomenal and allows them to play at a pace that most other teams simply cannot match.  Constant, high energy defense that never relents is extremely hard to face.  Most of Hope's opponents are simply worn out in the 1st half.  Added to that the offensive ability of the first 10 players is really good.  I saw someone suggest that Hope's second 5 (known as the "chaos crew" by their teammates) could be a top 10 team on their own.  That might be a stretch, but as Coach Mo said on the 1st Hoopsville of the year, some of the hardest games his team will face this year will be in practice.

Massey now predicts a 70-64 Hope win, but I'm more aligned with TUAngola on thinking it being 15-20.  I also will not be suprised at a very close game, because Trine is also a top notch team.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on December 15, 2021, 11:25:35 AM
I don't believe Hope will allow Tara to put the team on her shoulders like she did against Benedictine. I think it would need to be a player like Rachel in the almost comeback to Eau Claire.


Biased prediction... I think Trine's defense can play with just about anyone. But I think their offense is really going to struggle, just like every other offense Hope has played this year. Kelsy might be in for a very long day (or short if she gets into foul trouble) if she's not able to kick it out to open players on the perimeter, a skill set she hasn't really shown . She struggled last time these teams met, and I think the lack of Shay inside is really going to show in this game.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 15, 2021, 12:36:55 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on December 15, 2021, 11:25:35 AM
I don't believe Hope will allow Tara to put the team on her shoulders like she did against Benedictine. I think it would need to be a player like Rachel in the almost comeback to Eau Claire.


Biased prediction... I think Trine's defense can play with just about anyone. But I think their offense is really going to struggle, just like every other offense Hope has played this year. Kelsy might be in for a very long day (or short if she gets into foul trouble) if she's not able to kick it out to open players on the perimeter, a skill set she hasn't really shown . She struggled last time these teams met, and I think the lack of Shay inside is really going to show in this game.

Solid points.  The part I bolded I think is really key; specifically, can they play that level of defense for 40 minutes given the energy that Hope's 2 teams of 5 bring to the floor.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Jester1390 on December 15, 2021, 01:40:38 PM
you might be  not off on the strength of defense here is the list from massey on defense

Amherst
Trine
WI Whitewater
Wi Oskosh
Wi Lacrosse
Hope

Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on December 16, 2021, 08:15:56 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on December 15, 2021, 12:36:55 PM
Solid points.  The part I bolded I think is really key; specifically, can they play that level of defense for 40 minutes given the energy that Hope's 2 teams of 5 bring to the floor.

I just think the game will be won in the paint. Trine is deep at guard and I believe Tara, Kayla, and Rachel can play right there with Hope's starters. I don't, however, think Sam and Kelcy can play with Olivia, Kate, Savannah, and Hannah. And if either gets in foul trouble and we see significant minutes going to Brooke or the Slonekers, I think it could get ugly. Like I said in my last post, we're going to find out on Saturday just how much Trine misses Shay. And my bet is the answer is more than Massey or the stats show.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 16, 2021, 10:05:26 AM
Quote from: HOPEful on December 16, 2021, 08:15:56 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on December 15, 2021, 12:36:55 PM
Solid points.  The part I bolded I think is really key; specifically, can they play that level of defense for 40 minutes given the energy that Hope's 2 teams of 5 bring to the floor.

I just think the game will be won in the paint. Trine is deep at guard and I believe Tara, Kayla, and Rachel can play right there with Hope's starters. I don't, however, think Sam and Kelcy can play with Olivia, Kate, Savannah, and Hannah. And if either gets in foul trouble and we see significant minutes going to Brooke or the Slonekers, I think it could get ugly. Like I said in my last post, we're going to find out on Saturday just how much Trine misses Shay. And my bet is the answer is more than Massey or the stats show.

Points in the paint will be big for sure and Hope holds an advantage there (Hope scores 54% of their points in the paint, Trine 40%).  Against common opponents (Benedictine and Calvin) the points in the paint were a bit more of a Hope advantage (Hope - 51% and Trine - 25%).  From outside, Hope is 2nd in the nation in 3PT FG% (.393) while Trine is 60th (.320).  Both teams are top 10 in the nation in multiple categories, as you would expect for top ranked teams. 

One difference I noted is pace of play.  Hope is averaging 78 posessions per game, while Trine is averaging 66.  I suspect that whichever team controls the pace of play will go a along way towards the victory.

Really ready for this game to be played!!
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on December 17, 2021, 06:28:14 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on December 16, 2021, 10:05:26 AM
Quote from: HOPEful on December 16, 2021, 08:15:56 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on December 15, 2021, 12:36:55 PM
Solid points.  The part I bolded I think is really key; specifically, can they play that level of defense for 40 minutes given the energy that Hope's 2 teams of 5 bring to the floor.

I just think the game will be won in the paint. Trine is deep at guard and I believe Tara, Kayla, and Rachel can play right there with Hope's starters. I don't, however, think Sam and Kelcy can play with Olivia, Kate, Savannah, and Hannah. And if either gets in foul trouble and we see significant minutes going to Brooke or the Slonekers, I think it could get ugly. Like I said in my last post, we're going to find out on Saturday just how much Trine misses Shay. And my bet is the answer is more than Massey or the stats show.

Points in the paint will be big for sure and Hope holds an advantage there (Hope scores 54% of their points in the paint, Trine 40%).  Against common opponents (Benedictine and Calvin) the points in the paint were a bit more of a Hope advantage (Hope - 51% and Trine - 25%).  From outside, Hope is 2nd in the nation in 3PT FG% (.393) while Trine is 60th (.320).  Both teams are top 10 in the nation in multiple categories, as you would expect for top ranked teams. 

One difference I noted is pace of play.  Hope is averaging 78 posessions per game, while Trine is averaging 66.  I suspect that whichever team controls the pace of play will go a along way towards the victory.

Really ready for this game to be played!!

I have enjoyed reading everyone's scouting reports on both teams.  Can't wait for the game tomorrow. 

Here are side by side comparions of the 1st 5 and 2nd 5 points per game.  As mentioned your earlier posts, the Hope 2nd 5 is more than likely a top 25 team by itself.  Trine also prides itself in depth too and will go at least 10 deep in the game tomorrow.

G  Kaylee Argyle         3.3                                            G  Kasey DeSmit                  7.1
G  Kayla Wildman        7.1                                           G  Sydney Muller                  8.0
G  Tara Bieniewicz      11.1                                           G  Kenedy Schoonveld          9.2
F  Katie Sloneker         3.7                                            F  Kate Majerus                   8.7
F  Kelsy Taylor           10.1      Total  35.3                       F  Olivia Voskuil                 11.8               Total 44.8

G  Makayla Ardis         5.2                                            G  Meg Morehouse                4.2
G  Alyssa Argyle          5.9                                            G  Ella McKinney                  6.8
G  Rachel Stewart        9.6                                            F  Claire Baguley                 8.1
F  Sophie Sloneker       3.4                                            F  Savannah Feenstra         11.4
F  Sam Underhill          8.0     Total  32.1                        F  Hannah Smith                 6.8              Total 37.3

As you can see there isn't much difference between 1st 5's and 2nd 5's in scoring.  Hope's top 10 outscoring Trine 82.1 to 67.4.  Hope is outstanding on both sides of the ball, whereas in the games I've watched Trine so far this year they will struggle offensively at times.  I don't like that we're too in love with shooting the 3 ball.  We don't shoot a great percentage as a team from behind the arc.  Tara can be a sniper, but she can also go stone cold too.  Same with Kayla.  With their size I'd love to see them drive to the hoop more often.  But they aren't as quick as most of our other players.  Our second 5 in my opionion plays better team defense.  Rachel, to me, has been our most valuable player so far this year.  She can create her own shot and is a pest on defense.  At 5'7 she is not afraid of going inside and is our 3rd leading rebounder.  Keys for Trine to keep the game close tomorrow:  have to shoot at least in the low to mid 40% range, tall order against Hope's defense though.  We need to keep our turnovers to maybe 20 or less as Hope forces teams into an average of about 28 TO's per game.  Tara has to be "on" with her outside shot.  Kelsy has to not be intimidated by Hope's size, as Hope has pretty much neutralized her in most of the head to head games with Trine.  Rachel has to have a great game and perhaps be more 'selfish' and look for her own shot more.  She's such a team player that it isn't in her nature, but she has the 'prettiest' shot of any girl on our team, the rotation of the basketball when she shoots is sweet.  Other key is defense, we need to hold Hope below 40%, and we need to block out and rebound.  Hope averages 15 offensive rebounds a game.  I am hopeful the game will be close, but it could be a runaway. 
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Jester1390 on December 18, 2021, 03:33:43 PM
Man will someone play some perimeter defense in the trine-hope game. So open on both teams shooting ducks in a barrel
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Jester1390 on December 18, 2021, 03:42:47 PM
Trine does have a terrific fieldhouse just like Rose  the window background is excellent
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Jester1390 on December 18, 2021, 03:47:25 PM
fun first half to watch  Hope missing 6 free throws. enjoy rest of game off to see Spiderman
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on December 18, 2021, 04:55:12 PM
Really really impressed by Trine today. Hope did a great job containing Tara and Kelsy, but Kayla, Makayla, and Rachel stepped up big. Trine played much better and kept this much closer than I was expecting.

On the other side, Kenedy reminded everyone why she's a first team All-American and why Hope is the top ranked team in the country.

I think it's very possible we see 3 more Hope v. Trine games this season.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on December 18, 2021, 05:00:29 PM
Congratulations to both Hope and Trine for a hard fought game, just the kind of game that has become the hallmark of this series in the past several years.  Trine played with grit and did the things they needed to make a game of it.  Just needed to knock down a few more shots.  For the Dutch, it was a team win for sure but Kennedy stepped up like an All American when it was needed, shot the ball at a blistering pace and had no turnovers.  Not sure what's up with the free throws, that was a pretty bad showing for the Dutch, leaving maybe 10 easy points at the line.

Massey really nailed this one :)
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on December 18, 2021, 05:43:41 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on December 18, 2021, 04:55:12 PM
Really really impressed by Trine today. Hope did a great job containing Tara and Kelsy, but Kayla, Makayla, and Rachel stepped up big. Trine played much better and kept this much closer than I was expecting.

On the other side, Kenedy reminded everyone why she's a first team All-American and why Hope is the top ranked team in the country.

I think it's very possible we see 3 more Hope v. Trine games this season.

First off what a really good game, proud of the way Trine fought.  As HOPEful mentioned the difference in the game was Schoonveld.  She put the team on her back the second half and anytime you thought well maybe Trine might get it to a one possession game she would make a 3 or dribble and drive to the hoop for a bucket.  She finished with 20 and could easily put up offensive numbers like this all the time, but by the 3rd quarter Hope is up 30+ in their games and so she usually gets to sit out the rest of the game.  Whereas we couldn't get enough open looks for Tara.  Hope is really good at guarding the 3pt line and they will even trap you that far away from the basket.  Tara is a catch and shoot player, when she has to create shots off the dribble that is where she really struggles.  Trine was missing our starting PG, as Kaylee Argyle was in a boot on the bench.  I was sitting next to her Dad and he said that she injured her foot in practice Thursday and could be out 3-4 weeks.  So that moved Makayla into the starting lineup and Freshman Sidney Wagner into the backup role at PG.  Up until today Sidney's minutes have been sporadic.  But I tell you what I was impressed with her play.  She might be the best ball handler on the team and she can create her own shot getting to the rim.  She's gonna be a good one!  But somehow we have to find more minutes for Rachel Stewart, especially in a game like this where Hope pressures the heck out of you.  She is a ball hawk on defense and can create offensively if needed.  I thought we did hit 2 of my 3 keys to the game:  our turnovers were under 20 and we did a decent job of defensive rebounding.  The 3rd key was to shoot in the low to mid 40% range, but finished at 35.7%.  A few more makes and it's a tight finish.  Our defense was pretty solid, I especially thought we forced Olivia into some tough shots.  But on the defensive end she made 2 or 3 key blocks in the paint down the stretch.  She is a natural shot blocker with great instincts.

Now, my second point again is to the schedule makers.  There is no way this game should have been played with students on break.  Not sure who puts the MIAA schedule together, but you have the 2 best teams in the MIAA for about the last 6+ years, with Hope on a 50+ win streak and you schedule this one a week before Christmas?  It's absolutely absurd and a travesty not to have the Trine students be able to see the best team in the nation play.  Their energy might have helped, but we'll never know.  Good turnout of Hope fans today, they probably had 75+ in the stands.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: ronk on December 18, 2021, 10:03:51 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on December 18, 2021, 05:43:41 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on December 18, 2021, 04:55:12 PM
Really really impressed by Trine today. Hope did a great job containing Tara and Kelsy, but Kayla, Makayla, and Rachel stepped up big. Trine played much better and kept this much closer than I was expecting.

On the other side, Kenedy reminded everyone why she's a first team All-American and why Hope is the top ranked team in the country.

I think it's very possible we see 3 more Hope v. Trine games this season.

First off what a really good game, proud of the way Trine fought.  As HOPEful mentioned the difference in the game was Schoonveld.  She put the team on her back the second half and anytime you thought well maybe Trine might get it to a one possession game she would make a 3 or dribble and drive to the hoop for a bucket.  She finished with 20 and could easily put up offensive numbers like this all the time, but by the 3rd quarter Hope is up 30+ in their games and so she usually gets to sit out the rest of the game.  Whereas we couldn't get enough open looks for Tara.  Hope is really good at guarding the 3pt line and they will even trap you that far away from the basket.  Tara is a catch and shoot player, when she has to create shots off the dribble that is where she really struggles.  Trine was missing our starting PG, as Kaylee Argyle was in a boot on the bench.  I was sitting next to her Dad and he said that she injured her foot in practice Thursday and could be out 3-4 weeks.  So that moved Makayla into the starting lineup and Freshman Sidney Wagner into the backup role at PG.  Up until today Sidney's minutes have been sporadic.  But I tell you what I was impressed with her play.  She might be the best ball handler on the team and she can create her own shot getting to the rim.  She's gonna be a good one!  But somehow we have to find more minutes for Rachel Stewart, especially in a game like this where Hope pressures the heck out of you.  She is a ball hawk on defense and can create offensively if needed.  I thought we did hit 2 of my 3 keys to the game:  our turnovers were under 20 and we did a decent job of defensive rebounding.  The 3rd key was to shoot in the low to mid 40% range, but finished at 35.7%.  A few more makes and it's a tight finish.  Our defense was pretty solid, I especially thought we forced Olivia into some tough shots.  But on the defensive end she made 2 or 3 key blocks in the paint down the stretch.  She is a natural shot blocker with great instincts.

Now, my second point again is to the schedule makers.  There is no way this game should have been played with students on break.  Not sure who puts the MIAA schedule together, but you have the 2 best teams in the MIAA for about the last 6+ years, with Hope on a 50+ win streak and you schedule this one a week before Christmas?  It's absolutely absurd and a travesty not to have the Trine students be able to see the best team in the nation play.  Their energy might have helped, but we'll never know.  Good turnout of Hope fans today, they probably had 75+ in the stands.
I was impressed with Wagner and Stewart, also. Unfortunate that Trine lost its PG but Wagner will be a fine substitute; especially like the way she dribbles into the paint and maintains her dribble til the options are exhausted; most PGs either pick up their dribble or leave their feet to shoot(and get the shot deflected) or pass.
Looking forward to the future Trine-Hope encounters this season.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Jester1390 on December 19, 2021, 02:49:59 PM
This might seem as a rip against the Hope program and its not.  I appreciate great programs we have St. Thomas here in Minnesota. They dominated in almost every program but it was their dominance in football that got them kicked out and made D-1. I don't know if Hope is as great in other sports as woman's basketball but what changed for them after 1996.  Was it just the hiring of the coach. Before him they were like most schools some good some bad years but after 2 years into his program they have never looked back.

Is he just a excellent recruiter. Why do high end players choose to come.  Do they have financial incentives like Berea where no one pays tuition.  With them being so dominate have they gotten heat to become D-2 at least and threatened to be voted out of the conference like the MIAC did to St. Thomas.  St. Thomas  had the facilities already to be D-1 so they chose that over becoming D-2 and more  money to be made in D-1  I don't know if that is the case with Hope.  23 years in a row being dominate I could see other schools in the conference being jealous and  tired of any advantages Hope has in recruiting if there is any.  Outside of just hey coach knows how to recruit.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on December 19, 2021, 03:44:35 PM
Quote from: Jester1390 on December 19, 2021, 02:49:59 PM
This might seem as a rip against the Hope program and its not.  I appreciate great programs we have St. Thomas here in Minnesota. They dominated in almost every program but it was their dominance in football that got them kicked out and made D-1. I don't know if Hope is as great in other sports as woman's basketball but what changed for them after 1996.  Was it just the hiring of the coach. Before him they were like most schools some good some bad years but after 2 years into his program they have never looked back.

Is he just a excellent recruiter. Why do high end players choose to come.  Do they have financial incentives like Berea where no one pays tuition.  With them being so dominate have they gotten heat to become D-2 at least and threatened to be voted out of the conference like the MIAC did to St. Thomas.  St. Thomas  had the facilities already to be D-1 so they chose that over becoming D-2 and more  money to be made in D-1  I don't know if that is the case with Hope.  23 years in a row being dominate I could see other schools in the conference being jealous and  tired of any advantages Hope has in recruiting if there is any.  Outside of just hey coach knows how to recruit.

I was ready to be offended by the implications in your post but let me back off; it does appear from your post that you know little about the program and may be genuinely curious. 

That said, let me address a few of your questions as someone who has had a daughter play there and graduate.  No, like other D3 schools Hope has no athletic scholarships.  They have need based aid (based on FAFSA) and some academic scholarships.  My daughter received an academic scholarship equal to about 15% of cost to attend; she was AP-everything in high school with almost 4.0 GPA and fantastic SAT scores so she deserved it as much as any student.  Hope has a diverse and excellent undergraduate degree program from engineering to nursing with one of the stronger undergraduate research programs in the country.  So they are an attractive school for student athletes with a wide range of interests.  But I think you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned the coach, it is no a coincidence they have thrived since Coach Mo's hiring.  I'd say their success is probably 80% the coach and 20% everything else including some key alumni providing support for a beautiful facility.  His father was a high school coach and has assisted his son at Hope for many years; Coach Mo has been immersed in basketball his entire life.  He graduated from Hope in '91 and was an undergraduate assistant to the men's program during his undergrad years.  He then assisted the men's program and coached the men's JV for several years before taking over the women's program.  In addition to being a fantastic coach you will not find a more decent, honorable, hard working and community minded man anywhere.  The team is involved in numerous community activities every year, particularly Miracle League events where the players work with mentally and physically disabled kids.  THAT, along academics and facilities, is what makes many young women want to play for him and Hope over others.  Over the years, that effort has gradually built strong support from the administration and the community such that Hope now leads the NCAA in attendance every year.  Students go to games, parents and families of players long gone still go to games, even the local over-55 community has a strong contingent of their residents that attend every home game. 

So I'm clearly biased but seems to me you have a leader who is a wonderful man and coach; an excellent school with a diverse degree program that is not quite as expensive as the top tier private schools; a beautiful facility; exceptional fan following, a really fantastic little town in Holland, MI that is just a few walking blocks from campus; and now a record of sustained excellence.  It builds on itself.  Coach Mo's program to me is an example of a D3 program doing everything right in my opinion.  But it's not like they go to the final four every year; the current run is fueled by a very strong senior class including the 5th year Covid players.  Hope women's BB is usually very strong for the aforementioned reasons but are often neck and neck with Calvin; Calvin happens to be down last couple of years but now every game with Trine is a struggle.  Men's BB has been around .500 for several years and while Hope generally fields strong and competitive MIAA teams in other sports it's not as if they dominant the league much less the NCAA.

Sorry for the long response but I hope it helps you understand.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Jester1390 on December 19, 2021, 04:45:10 PM
Thanks Round. I wasn't implying they are buying players. St Thomas got d-1 players to come one their facilities were 2nd to none on the d-3 level and being parting a major metropolitan area.  However there dominance made the other schools say they had a unfair advantage and voted them out of conference.  I was more curious on if they have gotten blowback from other teams in the conference but are they as dominate on other area.

I just had a mom from mount saint joe ask me at a game how the hell does Rose get any d-1 talent to come to terre haute not exactly a tourist stop and it's simple because if you graduate from rose your going to make six figures.   Didn't know Hope was a engineering school  don't know how many of the women are studying that but that defiantly can be an advantage getting high end academic athletes and then having other areas so that not all your athletes have to have a 29 act. Getting the best of both worlds   


Is Michigan high school basketball really strong. I heard a discussion where a announcer thought Illinois high school is stronger then Indiana.  I would throw Minnesota Into that ring.  Also the top all Iowa attack teams are pretty damn good
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Jester1390 on December 19, 2021, 04:49:53 PM
I don't know if there is any Calvin or trinity people on this board but it would be interesting to hear why they think Hope has been so dominate for over 20 years.  Is there just respect for the Hope program or is there animosity like other Miac teams felt for st Thomas that they had built in advantages
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: pointlem on December 19, 2021, 05:23:38 PM
Excellent question, Jester . . . and answer Roundball.

Other MIAA schools have similarly sustained excellence in a particular athletic program over time . . . Kalamazoo in tennis, Calvin in cross-country, and Albion for an era in football come immediately to mind . . . with the league, I think, taking pride in their achievements.

Observing Hope women's BB close at hand, I'd second Roundball, and also offer my sense that there's lots of joy and love evident on those Morehouse-coached teams. If I had a daughter capable of playing college ball, I'd love for her to have the experience those Hope women have enjoyed over the years.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on December 19, 2021, 06:02:49 PM
Quote from: Jester1390 on December 19, 2021, 04:45:10 PM
Thanks Round. I wasn't implying they are buying players. St Thomas got d-1 players to come one their facilities were 2nd to none on the d-3 level and being parting a major metropolitan area.  However there dominance made the other schools say they had a unfair advantage and voted them out of conference.  I was more curious on if they have gotten blowback from other teams in the conference but are they as dominate on other area.

I just had a mom from mount saint joe ask me at a game how the hell does Rose get any d-1 talent to come to terre haute not exactly a tourist stop and it's simple because if you graduate from rose your going to make six figures.   Didn't know Hope was a engineering school  don't know how many of the women are studying that but that defiantly can be an advantage getting high end academic athletes and then having other areas so that not all your athletes have to have a 29 act. Getting the best of both worlds   


Is Michigan high school basketball really strong. I heard a discussion where a announcer thought Illinois high school is stronger then Indiana.  I would throw Minnesota Into that ring.  Also the top all Iowa attack teams are pretty damn good

I wouldn't say Hope is an engineering school like RHIT but it's a solid program.  Olivia Voskuil for example is an engineering major and plans to get a Masters in engineering at Michigan after Hope.  It's also notable that Hope pretty regularly has Nursing majors in the team, that's especially demanding during senior year when frequent nursing clinicals can impact schedules and practices.

Hope's roster is almost all from Michigan; one player from IL and two from IN.  Not sure the relative strength of the states.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Jester1390 on December 19, 2021, 06:22:31 PM
Round very true about nursing. D-3 schools not so much worry but I was told to make sure when my kid was visiting d-2 schools to make sure they were good with a nursing major.  My kid isn't a d-1 talent but I think nursing majors is frowned upon on that level. I know engineering defiantly is.  A player at rose was told by her former school you are here to play basketball not miss practice for a engineering class.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on December 19, 2021, 07:12:10 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on December 19, 2021, 06:02:49 PM
Quote from: Jester1390 on December 19, 2021, 04:45:10 PM
Thanks Round. I wasn't implying they are buying players. St Thomas got d-1 players to come one their facilities were 2nd to none on the d-3 level and being parting a major metropolitan area.  However there dominance made the other schools say they had a unfair advantage and voted them out of conference.  I was more curious on if they have gotten blowback from other teams in the conference but are they as dominate on other area.

I just had a mom from mount saint joe ask me at a game how the hell does Rose get any d-1 talent to come to terre haute not exactly a tourist stop and it's simple because if you graduate from rose your going to make six figures.   Didn't know Hope was a engineering school  don't know how many of the women are studying that but that defiantly can be an advantage getting high end academic athletes and then having other areas so that not all your athletes have to have a 29 act. Getting the best of both worlds   


Is Michigan high school basketball really strong. I heard a discussion where a announcer thought Illinois high school is stronger then Indiana.  I would throw Minnesota Into that ring.  Also the top all Iowa attack teams are pretty damn good

I wouldn't say Hope is an engineering school like RHIT but it's a solid program.  Olivia Voskuil for example is an engineering major and plans to get a Masters in engineering at Michigan after Hope.  It's also notable that Hope pretty regularly has Nursing majors in the team, that's especially demanding during senior year when frequent nursing clinicals can impact schedules and practices.

Hope's roster is almost all from Michigan; one player from IL and two from IN.  Not sure the relative strength of the states.

Hope will have another Indiana girl on their squad next year.  Angola's Lauren Leach announced in November that she will be attending Hope College.  She is a 5'11 forward averaging about 14 pts per game.  She had several NAIA offers and offers from home town Trine and DePauw among others.  That is 2 Angola kids who have spurned Trine for Hope as Jake Honer was recently on the men's squad.  So I agree with Roudball and pointlem that Hope is an attractive college destination for prospective students and student athletes. 
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: jspiii on December 20, 2021, 01:24:43 AM
And St. Thomas is quite a bit larger school than Hope College. Wikipedia has enrollment at St Thomas at 6,200-6,500 undergraduates, Hope is around 3,200-3,500.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Jester1390 on December 20, 2021, 01:34:10 AM
This issue started at st .Thomas due to there dominance in football.  They did well in other sports but it was football that drove the other schools against them. They were accused of running up scores rightfully or wrongly and the move very mafia line was to expell them.   There will always be programs jealous of other programs.   Hope has been so dominate in WBB  for so long but if they ar so level on football and other sports there probably isn't that pressure.   I just had a talk with a young player from Rose who isn't getting a lot of playing time and we care about.  I told her the same thing of if I was Hope or st Thomas.   In her case I told her what i  ha e told my daughter her entire life make them have to play you.   And to Miac teams and Hope openers I would say. Recruit better coach better and play better
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on December 20, 2021, 08:35:32 AM
Jester, Amherst is another interesting example of sustained excellence in WBB.   Another great coach in Gromacki.  He actually has a slightly better career winning % than Hope's coach and also has 3 national championships to Morehouse's two.  Their facility is modest and I wouldn't call Amherst a basketball town by any stretch.  They offer only need-based aid; there are no academic scholarships.  Their admissions selectivity is far more stringent than either Hope or RHIT.  So how do they do it?  Well, because of their academic reputation they have a talent pool that is international, the current roster represents seven states including two from California and they even have a 6'6" frosh from Malaysia.  They also seem to have a bit of a pipeline from kids interested in the Ivy League schools; young women that have the academics and talent to play at a lower D1 like an Ivy but might not want the commitment and rigor of a D1 program.  Especially when there is no scholarship at the Ivy college anway.  Amherst becomes a good alternative with high quality hoops and outstanding academics.  Costs are similarly outrageous at Amherst and an Ivy.

I figure the lesson is that every coach would do well to try to determine those attributes that might be particularly unique and attractive for their particular college and really targeting their recruiting around that rather than just casting a wide net.  Then pay a lot of attention to those young women that fit your college's unique "profile", what young athlete isn't influenced by that level of attention?  Maybe this is obvious and coaches already do this, I really don't know.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on December 20, 2021, 08:52:40 AM
A few points yet to be mentioned...

1. I've discussed in the past the stark difference I've observed between the average d3 male recruit vs. the average d3 female recruit. In my experience, the average high school senior female athlete takes a much more wholistic approach when considering their college experience. The ego of going D1 or D2 vs. D3 doesn't seem to matter as much as it does to their male counterparts. And the campus, student life, curriculum, housing, etc. all seems to matter as much as the athletic program. It feels at times like male athletes don't even consider which school is a better fit or will set them up better for the rest of their life post college, they just want to ball at the highest level. As Roundball attested, Coach Mo sells recruits on not just a perennial powerhouse tradition, but a tight knit culture of comradery on and off the court supported by one of the most electric fan bases for women's basketball in all the country, at any level. Not to downplay the value of a athletic scholarship, but even at the D3 level, male athletes seem much more willing to go to the program that makes them the best basketball offer... a more athlete first, student second mentality. There are many high caliber male recruits that don't even consider Hope because they're fixated on the athletic scholarships being offered to them by NAIA or D2 schools like Cornerstone or GVSU. Coach Mo doesn't seem to struggle with that problem even close to the same extent.

2. The old cliché is "you can't teach height" and Dutch people are on average the tallest people in the world. Voskuil and Schoonveld are very Dutch names and both attended Holland Christian high school. I'm sure that Coach Mo isn't complaining about the much larger than average pool of 6'+ players to recruit in West MI vs. other communities.

3. As for this dominant current team, getting your two All Americans back from last year for a 5th year doesn't hurt either. And they probably weren't too difficult to recruit 6 years ago seeing as one of them is the daughter of Hope's athletic director :)
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on December 20, 2021, 09:11:06 AM
Some really really random thoughts on the Trine game:

* Awesome to watch. Both teams showed tons of skill.

* It was funny to hear the Trine announcers crowing over Kenedy getting her ankles broken, when she just got stepped on. Basketball officials always seem to call fouls when inadvertent contact results in one player getting tripped (I don't like it--no idea what the rules say should happen). In this case calling an offensive foul would be consistent, even though the contact was completely inadvertent.

* Perhaps it's part of the game now but a lot of primary ball handlers use their off arm as an arm-bar so much. McKinney and Wagner did it allll game long.

* I'm interested to see Muller adapt. Teams know they'd rather have her take a 3 than any other of Hope's starters--they give her a cushion. And more often than not, she dribbles INTO the cushion, often ending up in a tough spot. Gotta adapt.

* In big games the best players show up. Thinking back to tourney games where Bria Ebels or Stephen Cramer were clearly the best player on the floor. Schoonveld was that vs. Trine.

* The officials calling the 2nd half much much more proactively really sucked. Removed a lot of flow from the game and a good handful of the fouls were pretty minimal.

* Hope went to great pains to eliminate Tara. They lapsed for a second in the 2nd half and she drained a 3.

* Trine losing in this fashion to Hope is more impressive than most wins. I hope pollsters don't dock them just for a loss.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 20, 2021, 09:18:42 AM
Quote from: HOPEful on December 20, 2021, 08:52:40 AM
A few points yet to be mentioned...

1. I've discussed in the past the stark difference I've observed between the average d3 male recruit vs. the average d3 female recruit. In my experience, the average high school senior female athlete takes a much more wholistic approach when considering their college experience. The ego of going D1 or D2 vs. D3 doesn't seem to matter as much as it does to their male counterparts. And the campus, student life, curriculum, housing, etc. all seems to matter as much as the athletic program. It feels at times like male athletes don't even consider which school is a better fit or will set them up better for the rest of their life post college, they just want to ball at the highest level. As Roundball attested, Coach Mo sells recruits on not just a perennial powerhouse tradition, but a tight knit culture of comradery on and off the court supported by one of the most electric fan bases for women's basketball in all the country, at any level. Not to downplay the value of a athletic scholarship, but even at the D3 level, male athletes seem much more willing to go to the program that makes them the best basketball offer... a more athlete first, student second mentality. There are many high caliber male recruits that don't even consider Hope because they're fixated on the athletic scholarships being offered to them by NAIA or D2 schools like Cornerstone or GVSU. Coach Mo doesn't seem to struggle with that problem even close to the same extent.

2. The old cliché is "you can't teach height" and Dutch people are on average the tallest people in the world. Voskuil and Schoonveld are very Dutch names and both attended Holland Christian high school. I'm sure that Coach Mo isn't complaining about the much larger than average pool of 6'+ players to recruit in West MI vs. other communities.

3. As for this dominant current team, getting your two All Americans back from last year for a 5th year doesn't hurt either. And they probably weren't too difficult to recruit 6 years ago seeing as one of them is the daughter of Hope's athletic director :)

I've noticed, when it comes to men's teams, no matter the level or winning percentage, there's always at least one player who thinks they can go pro with the right break. It's in the back of the mind for most top level recruits. I do think that affects recruiting quite a bit.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on December 20, 2021, 09:38:14 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 20, 2021, 09:18:42 AM
I've noticed, when it comes to men's teams, no matter the level or winning percentage, there's always at least one player who thinks they can go pro with the right break. It's in the back of the mind for most top level recruits. I do think that affects recruiting quite a bit.

Agreed. It's the AAU effect. These young men have been praised and defined as "great basketball players" since they were 12. And even though many of them are subpar students and even at times, subpar humans, they're still praised for their athletic ability. And that constant praise from their parents and peers develops egos much larger than any 17 year old not named LeBron should have. That constant one dimensional praise doesn't seem to happen as prevalently towards female athletes. And I mean that to be a very good thing.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on December 20, 2021, 09:51:08 AM
Olivia and Kenedy are averaging roughly 18 minutes per game this season. I have a hard time imagining many male All-Americans that would be genuinely happy with their role playing that few minutes.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 20, 2021, 12:30:07 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on December 20, 2021, 09:51:08 AM
Olivia and Kenedy are averaging roughly 18 minutes per game this season. I have a hard time imagining many male All-Americans that would be genuinely happy with their role playing that few minutes.

Nate Shafer and Zac O'Dell each played 24 mpg for Swarthmore in the 2019-20 season.  That's probably as close as you'll see.  It's quite unusual for any team to be able to keep their best players on the bench for more than 50% of their minutes, though.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on December 20, 2021, 12:53:14 PM
You can see how few minutes Hope's players play, comparatively.

I grabbed the top few players from the top ranked teams, and anyone who made the D3Hoops preseason teams.


   
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
NAMETeamYrSTATMin/GPts/G
Maddie HaberthyMt. St. JosephSenior0.6738.6320.75
Damaris RodriguezNew Jersey CitySophomore0.8437.0017.67
Maggie MeehanWilliamsSenior0.5136.2014.40
Hanna GeistfeldBethany LutheranSenior0.9936.0023.91
AnLing VeraAmherstFreshman0.5534.8610.00
Molly RyanTuftsSenior0.7334.6317.75
Jessie RudenUW-Eau ClaireJunior0.6834.4016.80
Leah SpringerMessiahSenior0.9133.1117.22
Annie TateWheatonJunior0.8532.6018.80
Reeya PatelAmherstSophomore0.5832.2912.00
Bridget MonaghanScrantonJunior0.7932.2518.88
Gabrielle ZaffiroAmherstSenior0.5931.5711.43
Olivia NagyJohn CarrollSenior1.0631.3816.25
Tyra BoettcherUW-Eau ClaireSenior0.7130.9014.70
Courtney CrouchUW-Eau ClaireJunior0.5330.6011.00
Kiera DowneyRhodesJunior0.7130.4414.44
Nicole HeffingtonJohn CarrollSenior0.9430.1318.38
Kaylie McCrackenWhitmanSenior0.9829.7017.20
Jade GanskiUW-Eau ClaireSophomore0.6629.507.10
Maggie TrautschUW-WhitewaterSophomore0.5329.3310.22
Elyce KnudsenMilikinSophomore0.9728.8318.92
Jadyn AbramsNazarethSenior0.7728.3815.13
Jenna TaylorSimpsonSenior0.9028.2514.63
Leah PorathUW-OshkoshSenior0.7228.1114.22
Averi JordanDeSalesSenior0.8728.0016.78
Bailey ReardonUW-Eau ClaireJunior0.6727.2010.60
Kaylee OtlowskiSalisburySenior0.9827.1014.40
Aleah GrundahlUW-WhitewaterJunior0.8727.0016.89
Kaelan ShamseldinWhitmanSenior0.6124.8010.50
Tara BieniewiczTrineSenior0.6723.8010.70
Johanna TaylorUW-WhitewaterSenior0.6923.337.44
Mallory StephensE Tx BapSenior0.5622.368.55
Lilly EdwardsBaldwin WallaceSenior1.3022.2518.50
Koren BakerWhitmanSophomore0.8821.7012.60
Sam UnderhillTrineJunior0.6619.907.30
Kayla WildmanTrineSenior0.5419.507.90
Julie GalaunerAuroraSenior0.8219.0010.83
Rebekah SchumacherUW-WhitewaterSenior0.7418.338.44
Kenedy SchoonveldHopeSenior0.9818.2010.30
Sydney MullerHopeSenior0.8517.908.10
Olivia VoskuilHopeSenior1.3217.7011.80
Sondra FanCNUSenior1.3517.5516.64
Kelsy TaylorTrineSenior0.8517.509.60
Kasey DeSmitHopeSenior0.6017.506.50
Kate MajerusHopeSenior0.6717.408.10
Anaya SimmonsCNUJunior1.1217.2712.45
Rachel StewartTrineSenior1.0317.009.30
Ella McKinneyHopeJunior0.7415.806.90
Hannah SmithHopeSenior0.7915.606.30
Claire BaguleyHopeJunior0.7415.608.30
Meg MorehouseHopeJunior0.5115.604.10
Natalie TerwilingerCNUSenior1.1515.5610.11
Savannah FeenstraHopeJunior1.1415.2210.33
Savannah LeGateOglethorpeSenior1.3815.0013.50
Kaylen UnderwoodJohn CarrollJunior0.8113.889.63
Olivia BellowsHopeFreshman0.828.224.67
Abi TarrantHopeFreshman0.428.001.33
Hannah KurnczHopeFreshman0.357.891.33
Jada GarnerHopeFreshman0.617.783.33
Courtney LeeHopeFreshman0.646.782.78
Raven JemisonHopeSophomore0.786.252.38
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Jester1390 on December 20, 2021, 01:02:26 PM
Hope i think your 100 percent on the scholarship and boys thinking they are going to be the next pro. Also on the experience my kid came from a really bad high school team that  had 2 coaches in her time. When she visited Rose it was the last year of the really good rose team and they have a top flight facility. It was exciting to her to see passion again.


I can only speak for my kids experience. She had D-2 and Naia full scholarships offers but in all cases they only offered nursing as something she would be interested in.   She was either going to Simpson in California or if she stayed home go to Gustavus. She had a chemistry teacher talk to her  about her strength in stem and at the last second the very last school she visited was Rose.  Ok enough of setup to get to point.     When Coach Prevo met with her he told her how much he admired how all her hard work in class and the hard work her family has done she had earned the right to choose she wasn't stuck.  That many players end up at a school or a major because of scholarship need. They end up unhappy and many don't finish.   I feel for those kids. There are parents right now on the rose parents group on facebook talking about how much their child wants to attend rose but they need to wait for financials to come in.  I know how my daughter has grown at rose and I know the career she is set up to have and  I am grateful we were in position to make the choice comfortably but even if i wasnt, any debt would be worth the cost of knowing  my kid is taken care of.

Lastly and this sealed the deal one of the heads dont remember which one said.  Kahlan its great you play basketball and we look forward to watching you but  it wouldn't matter if you were Maya Moore if we didnt think you would thrive here you wouldn't have been accepted.  Except for Coach Kelly at Gustavus she felt Rose was the only place not treating her like a piece of meat but cared about her off the court.

on the 6 year my dream is to get another year out of the kid especially being robbed last year but its not going to happen. I asked her if her and her class would come back and she said dad we are all going to have jobs when we graduate so hopefully maybe a masters somewhere.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on December 20, 2021, 03:05:44 PM
Quote from: Jester1390 on December 20, 2021, 01:02:26 PMOn the 6 year my dream is to get another year out of the kid especially being robbed last year but its not going to happen. I asked her if her and her class would come back and she said dad we are all going to have jobs when we graduate so hopefully maybe a masters somewhere.

Every coaches worst nightmare... a kid with more eligibility that leaves because they graduated and have a job lined up!

(kidding in case anyone actually thinks I'm serious)
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Jester1390 on December 20, 2021, 03:22:19 PM
lol i asked coach if he was going to work any of them and he said how can he the average starting salary is 75k
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on December 22, 2021, 04:48:09 PM
Last big top 25 tussle before the Holidays this afternoon with B-W visiting Trine.  Some significant disparities in the rankings as WBCA/D3Hoops/Massey has B-W at 24/16/5 and Trine at 11/7/4.  Massey has Trine by 8 with 75% win probability.  Having seen Hope play both I'd be tempted to favor Trine by a bit more especially at home.  Much depends on how Trine shoots especially from 3, since you know their defense is going to be tough no matter what.  B-W is solid too so I wouldn't expect this one to light up the scoreboard.  Good luck to two very nice teams but I have to save my best wishes for MIAA colleague Trine!
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on December 22, 2021, 08:21:30 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on December 22, 2021, 04:48:09 PM
Last big top 25 tussle before the Holidays this afternoon with B-W visiting Trine.  Some significant disparities in the rankings as WBCA/D3Hoops/Massey has B-W at 24/16/5 and Trine at 11/7/4.  Massey has Trine by 8 with 75% win probability.  Having seen Hope play both I'd be tempted to favor Trine by a bit more especially at home.  Much depends on how Trine shoots especially from 3, since you know their defense is going to be tough no matter what.  B-W is solid too so I wouldn't expect this one to light up the scoreboard.  Good luck to two very nice teams but I have to save my best wishes for MIAA colleague Trine!

Final:  Trine 64  Baldwin Wallace 45

Probably the best 1st half by the Thunder this season in the games I've seen them play in person, although the 1st half against Hope was very good too.  Our defense was absolutely suffocating on a very talented BW team.  And we had good ball movement on offense, especially in the second quarter and got some wide open looks, shooting 77% in the quarter.  We took BW out of their game and they looked very flustered in the 1st half.  We led 36-15 at the break.  Second half BW played much better and shot the ball better, outscoring the Thunder by 2 in the half.  I was really wary of this game and how the Thunder would play after their tussle with Hope on Saturday.  But they came out pretty focused and got good contributions from everyone that played.  On a down note we may have lost another player to injury as Makayla Ardis was in street clothes for the game.  I asked a parent of another Thunder player and he said that Makayla injured her knee in practice on Tuesday.  The extent of the injury is unknow yet.  So now we're down both our starting and backup point guards.  Freshman Sidney Wagner got the start tonight and backup Alyssa Argyle moved from her normal shooting guard spot to point guard for this game spelling Wagner.  The injuries are hurting our rotation as we basically used 9 players tonight.  We don't lose much with Wagner starting though.  She gained a lot of confidence playing extended minutes against Hope and it carried over to tonight.  Just got to figure out a new rotation.  We have a week of practice to work on it before heading to Nashville on the 29th and 30th for a tournament.  Tonight we couldn't go as deep into the bench as we typically do because BW played very tough the second half and we never was able to extend the lead.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on December 23, 2021, 10:27:18 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on December 22, 2021, 04:48:09 PM
Some significant disparities in the rankings as WBCA/D3Hoops/Massey has B-W at 24/16/5 and Trine at 11/7/4.  Massey has Trine by 8 with 75% win probability. 

I feel like after Hope, there are like 15 teams that you could make a strong argument for voting anywhere between #2 and #16. The way Trine plays defense, they can play with anyone, as they showed against Hope.

The way they beat BW was a mirror of how Hope did it. Focus on shutting down Lilly Edwards and Megan Hensel and dare someone else to step up.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on January 04, 2022, 03:49:19 PM
The Hope College men's and women's basketball games scheduled for Wednesday-Thursday, Jan. 5-6, have been postponed due to COVID-19 protocols.

Makeup dates are to be determined for the Flying Dutchmen's MIAA opener vs. Trine University on Wednesday at DeVos Fieldhouse, and the Flying Dutch's MIAA game at Alma College on Wednesday and their non-league game against Illinois College at DeVos Fieldhouse on Thursday.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 05, 2022, 03:58:48 PM
St Marys @ Kalamazoo postponed for tonight due to the weather
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 06, 2022, 08:58:31 AM
Quite the game at Kresge last night.  I checked on the stats at halftime to see Ablion up 44-26.  Checked again as the 3rd quarter ended to see the Brits still up big, 56-41.  Then the Knights went on a 15-4 run in the 4th wiht Sydney Cleary getting hot from 3.  Calvin got to within 1 point and had the ball but could not get the lead.  A late foul put the Brits at the line, goin 1-2.  Calvin ball with 6 seconds left down 2, but they could not get off a decent shot.  Final score 67-65.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on January 06, 2022, 11:07:45 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 04, 2022, 03:49:19 PM
The Hope College men's and women's basketball games scheduled for Wednesday-Thursday, Jan. 5-6, have been postponed due to COVID-19 protocols.

Makeup dates are to be determined for the Flying Dutchmen's MIAA opener vs. Trine University on Wednesday at DeVos Fieldhouse, and the Flying Dutch's MIAA game at Alma College on Wednesday and their non-league game against Illinois College at DeVos Fieldhouse on Thursday.


Looks like the Dutch's postponed game at Alma has been rescheduled for Monday January 10
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 06, 2022, 02:35:49 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 06, 2022, 11:07:45 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 04, 2022, 03:49:19 PM
The Hope College men's and women's basketball games scheduled for Wednesday-Thursday, Jan. 5-6, have been postponed due to COVID-19 protocols.

Makeup dates are to be determined for the Flying Dutchmen's MIAA opener vs. Trine University on Wednesday at DeVos Fieldhouse, and the Flying Dutch's MIAA game at Alma College on Wednesday and their non-league game against Illinois College at DeVos Fieldhouse on Thursday.


Looks like the Dutch's postponed game at Alma has been rescheduled for Monday January 10

And now both the Saturday game and the Monday reschedule are also postponed as Hope Women's Basketball  is "put on pause" per the Hope sports email I just got

Hope is also not going to be offering concessions for any home games
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on January 07, 2022, 02:50:51 PM
Yikes, barring further postponements the Dutch are now scheduling 6 games in 10 days, beginning next Wednesday with Adrian at Devos then Thursday with the twice-rescheduled game at Alma.  No makeup date yet for the postponed Illinois College game.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 07, 2022, 02:53:00 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 07, 2022, 02:50:51 PM
Yikes, barring further postponements the Dutch are now scheduling 6 games in 10 days, beginning next Wednesday with Adrian at Devos then Thursday with the twice-rescheduled game at Alma.  No makeup date yet for the postponed Illinois College game.

Yeah, really not ideal, but their depth should certainly help get through that kind of a schedule.  Just have to hope they are all healthy again.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on January 10, 2022, 07:16:40 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan link=topic=4515.msg2031085#msg2031085Yeah, really not ideal, but their depth should certainly help get through that kind of a schedule.  Just have to hope they are all healthy again.

Silver lining? Every player with COVID now will have immunity through the remainder of the season and postseason :)
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Jester1390 on January 10, 2022, 03:40:01 PM
Well that doesn't mean they won't test again positive.  Doesn't matter if you had Covid or not.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on January 10, 2022, 04:11:19 PM
Quote from: Jester1390 on January 10, 2022, 03:40:01 PM
Well that doesn't mean they won't test again positive.  Doesn't matter if you had Covid or not.

Sure it matters.  Some degree of immunity would result for some period of time for some of those infected; though there are no guarantees with this virus and its variants.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on January 13, 2022, 12:28:00 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 10, 2022, 04:11:19 PM
Quote from: Jester1390 on January 10, 2022, 03:40:01 PM
Well that doesn't mean they won't test again positive.  Doesn't matter if you had Covid or not.

Sure it matters.  Some degree of immunity would result for some period of time for some of those infected; though there are no guarantees with this virus and its variants.

This. Obviously, I wasn't implying they'd never get COVID again. But there is at least a 3 month immunity period that should take them all right through the playoffs.

On another note, Trine is currently seated as #2 in the country according the Massey. Albion and Calvin are 22 and 27 respectively.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 13, 2022, 01:42:37 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on January 13, 2022, 12:28:00 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 10, 2022, 04:11:19 PM
Quote from: Jester1390 on January 10, 2022, 03:40:01 PM
Well that doesn't mean they won't test again positive.  Doesn't matter if you had Covid or not.

Sure it matters.  Some degree of immunity would result for some period of time for some of those infected; though there are no guarantees with this virus and its variants.

This. Obviously, I wasn't implying they'd never get COVID again. But there is at least a 3 month immunity period that should take them all right through the playoffs.

On another note, Trine is currently seated as #2 in the country according the Massey. Albion and Calvin are 22 and 27 respectively.

The problem is if some of these are close contacts instead of positives - then you can get the cycle repeated over and over, albeit with a shorter down time.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on January 13, 2022, 01:50:10 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 13, 2022, 01:42:37 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on January 13, 2022, 12:28:00 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 10, 2022, 04:11:19 PM
Quote from: Jester1390 on January 10, 2022, 03:40:01 PM
Well that doesn't mean they won't test again positive.  Doesn't matter if you had Covid or not.

Sure it matters.  Some degree of immunity would result for some period of time for some of those infected; though there are no guarantees with this virus and its variants.

This. Obviously, I wasn't implying they'd never get COVID again. But there is at least a 3 month immunity period that should take them all right through the playoffs.

On another note, Trine is currently seated as #2 in the country according the Massey. Albion and Calvin are 22 and 27 respectively.

The problem is if some of these are close contacts instead of positives - then you can get the cycle repeated over and over, albeit with a shorter down time.

Does the NCAA still require quarantine for all close contacts?  Current CDC guidance is that anyone vaccinated with booster need not quarantine at all.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 13, 2022, 02:29:59 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 13, 2022, 01:50:10 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 13, 2022, 01:42:37 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on January 13, 2022, 12:28:00 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 10, 2022, 04:11:19 PM
Quote from: Jester1390 on January 10, 2022, 03:40:01 PM
Well that doesn't mean they won't test again positive.  Doesn't matter if you had Covid or not.

Sure it matters.  Some degree of immunity would result for some period of time for some of those infected; though there are no guarantees with this virus and its variants.

This. Obviously, I wasn't implying they'd never get COVID again. But there is at least a 3 month immunity period that should take them all right through the playoffs.

On another note, Trine is currently seated as #2 in the country according the Massey. Albion and Calvin are 22 and 27 respectively.

The problem is if some of these are close contacts instead of positives - then you can get the cycle repeated over and over, albeit with a shorter down time.

Does the NCAA still require quarantine for all close contacts?  Current CDC guidance is that anyone vaccinated with booster need not quarantine at all.

I mean, there should be fewer and fewer, but I don't think its been as easy everywhere for people to get boosters - and if students were just vaccinated at the beginning of the school year, they're just now becoming eligible.  I know there's some leeway in the CDC definition of vaccinated to make up for that, but that's not true for every state and institutional definition.

It's not like the elimination of the quarantine was a medical decision; it was definitely about keeping pilots and nurses on the job and the risk was deemed acceptable.  Acceptable risk is not usually the forte of decisionmakers on college campuses.  It's going to vary a lot from place to place.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on January 13, 2022, 02:57:57 PM
Understand what you are saying about boosters.  Here, getting boosters is easy, getting rapid tests is impossible.

That quarantine elimination has been extended to everyone, not just doctors and nurses.  I'm on my employer's Covid policy committee so study this quite a bit.  Virtually every decision with this virus has been about acceptable risk and balancing risk.  When company managers or university administrators decide they know better than the CDC, typically they actually create more risk even if they don't understand that.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Jester1390 on January 13, 2022, 03:14:12 PM
well roundball in this case i hate to say i was right.  you had posted about the silver lining about covid and i responded that just cause you had it doesnt mean you wont again.  Well i predicted it and unlucky for my daughter she proved it true. After having covid last year and being vaccinated. Really people need to stop calling it a vaccination its not. Its a shot or a zpac pill to help limit the symptons.  You never hear any one say i got a mild case of polio. vaccination means you dont get it.

Kid has tested positive again. She had 102.3 temp but is feeling much better today. whole team was in quarantine but they are all negative so now looks like a game will be played next Wednesday.

For my kid she gets out on monday she meets with a doctor, He will decide if she needs a ekg.  if not her 5 day of practice protocol starts. if he requires it she has to wait for the result to come back and then the 5 days protocol .  Either way she is out for next week including the most important game of the year against transy.  if ekg is required probably misses another game.  Shes not a scorer but there is a reason she plays 30 minutes a game and that is due to her defense and all around game.  her replacement will bring more offense but wont be the lockdown defender that she is.

For all the kidding that gos on here at least most of the time im kidding.   But no joking or sarcasm this time. This really sucks and I feel for all parents  in all sports in high school and college but especially college. you only have so much time to enjoy your child and to lose everything from last year and now at least 7 games this year. knowing after next year its all over and being robbed of memories and experiences just really sucks
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on January 13, 2022, 03:29:26 PM
Really sorry to hear about your daughter, that really stinks for her, for you and for the program.

You have a good point about the vaccine terminology.  I do think the messaging to the public has been badly mismanaged but even in the beginning, the vaccines were billed as no more than 95% effective.  It has gone down since then obviously with the new variants.  But millions get flu vaccines every year and most understand they are no more than 40% - 60% effective depending on the year, so I'm not sure the term "vaccine" is as black and white as you imply.

Regarding silver lining - I would definitely think of a 75% reduction in serious illness and 90% reduction in death as a silver lining.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on January 13, 2022, 07:06:36 PM
I'm sorry to hear about your daughter too.

From what it sounds like, pretty much the entire Hope women's team got COVID either in Florida or upon returning from Florida.

As for the the vaccine's effectiveness, I think the CDC was pretty forthright from the beginning on what it would take to get to "herd immunity". They estimated 94% of the population would need to be vaccinated. Since as a country, we're sitting at 63%, I doubt we'll ever get there. And like Roundball, I still get the flu vaccine every year because I like my chances better with it than without :)
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 13, 2022, 11:36:34 PM
I am sorry to hear about your daughter getting COVID. That does suck.

As for the terminology... we get a flu vaccine every year, too. It doesn't mean it's fool proof or you won't get sick at all. NO ONE has stated it will keep people from getting sick and they never have said it. They clearly say it will decrease symptoms and some may not notice they have it all.

We are very early in the life of this virus ... newer versions of the vaccine will have to be made to get ahead of it AND like the flu we will likely have a shot at least every year to try and keep ourselves from getting too sick or at all.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 13, 2022, 11:37:00 PM
(https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=710/cr=n/d=5o1qw/tjqzhjvixk205jq4.jpg)

Believe it or not, the Division III basketball season is basically at it's midway point - at least in terms of games played for most teams. Now everyone's focus turns towards the end of February and positioning themselves for conference tournaments and hopefully NCAA glory.

If COVID will allow, of course.

On Thursday's edition of Hoopsville, we talk with a few programs who appear to be in very good position midway through January. Of course, each will likely tell us there is a long way to go.

Plus we debut the women's edition of the Top 25 Double-Take. Gordon Mann and Riley Zayas, of Tru to the Cru, join the show with their Dubious, Deep Dive, and Debatable teams throughout Division III.

Watch the show On Demand here: https://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2021-22/jan13

Or the simulcast versions on our Facebook Live page (www.facebook.com/Hoopsville (http://www.facebook.com/Hoopsville)) and YouTube page (http://www.youtube.com/Hoopsville (http://www.youtube.com/Hoopsville))

Guests include:
- Aaron Griess, Augsburg men's coach
- Doreen Carden, Albion women's coach
- Dan Pruessner, Eastern men's coach
- Michele Davis, Utica women's coach
- Women's Top 25 Double-Take: Gordon Mann, D3hoops.com, Riley Zayas, True to the Cru

Hoopsville is hosted by Dave McHugh from the the NABC Studio. It is presented by D3hoops.com and thanks to our partner WBCA. All guests are featured on the BlueFrame Technology Hoopsville Hotline.

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Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on January 15, 2022, 01:32:16 PM
Hope just laid waste to their 4th hardest opponent this year.

It's not too dissimilar from past years, but Trine is the main barometer from here on out (Albion and Calvin are also solid).

Glad we got to play Baldwin-Wallace!
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on January 15, 2022, 01:43:17 PM
Great story abut the Dutch in SI:  https://www.si.com/college/2022/01/13/hope-college-womens-basketball-win-streak
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on January 15, 2022, 05:04:10 PM
Hope over Albion 79-56.  Tight first half; the Dutch pull away steadily during the 2nd.  Massey almost nailed this one, predicting 80-56.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on January 15, 2022, 08:10:09 PM
With the game very much in the balance, fascinating to see Morehouse go to the 2nd string with 3:50 left in the 1st half.

But even more interesting was bringing in just Schoonveld and Voskuil a few minutes later, who helped close the half strong. Interesting seeing McKinney, Feenstra, Baguely, with the two All-Americans.

I really expect to see more and more McKinney and Feenstra as the season goes on. They are both very dynamic, arguably more so than multiple 1st stringers.

Hope's offense gets stagnant when Voskuil isn't getting inside touches. While the shooters are great, they are deadly with just a tiny more space and time.

I also miss seeing post touches for Hannah Smith.

Hope's defense gets the offense going. Albion was extremely impressive taking care of the ball.

Albion also brought a lot of desire to the boards.  It was rare to see Hope with only small edges in TOs and REBs.

Both player control fouls on Hope were borderline at best. And if you're calling those, Majerus totally drew one in the 3rd quarter that went uncalled.

I'm sure Coach Mo has pages of notes to work on before next game. Great test for Hope; they answered the bell.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Dutchfan on January 16, 2022, 09:04:29 AM
Quote from: scottiedawg on January 15, 2022, 08:10:09 PM
With the game very much in the balance, fascinating to see Morehouse go to the 2nd string with 3:50 left in the 1st half.

But even more interesting was bringing in just Schoonveld and Voskuil a few minutes later, who helped close the half strong. Interesting seeing McKinney, Feenstra, Baguely, with the two All-Americans.

I really expect to see more and more McKinney and Feenstra as the season goes on. They are both very dynamic, arguably more so than multiple 1st stringers.

Hope's offense gets stagnant when Voskuil isn't getting inside touches. While the shooters are great, they are deadly with just a tiny more space and time.

I also miss seeing post touches for Hannah Smith.

Hope's defense gets the offense going. Albion was extremely impressive taking care of the ball.

Albion also brought a lot of desire to the boards.  It was rare to see Hope with only small edges in TOs and REBs.

Both player control fouls on Hope were borderline at best. And if you're calling those, Majerus totally drew one in the 3rd quarter that went uncalled.

I'm sure Coach Mo has pages of notes to work on before next game. Great test for Hope; they answered the bell.
I believe it is worth noting that that was Hope's third game since Wednesday. It felt to me that Hope was just a bit off in the first half, and three games in four days might be the culprit.

Thankfully Hope's second string is as good or better than most starting lineups. That's going to be a huge factor over the next week.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 16, 2022, 10:32:21 AM
Quote from: scottiedawg on January 15, 2022, 08:10:09 PM
With the game very much in the balance, fascinating to see Morehouse go to the 2nd string with 3:50 left in the 1st half.

Uh, no - that's about as predictable as the sun rising in the east.  That has been his M.O. (sorry - I had to) over the years and even more so with this team.  Leading or trailing he is going to do that.  Keeping them fresh (given their 110% effort on D) is how they wear out other teams. 

Quote from: scottiedawg on January 15, 2022, 08:10:09 PM
But even more interesting was bringing in just Schoonveld and Voskuil a few minutes later, who helped close the half strong. Interesting seeing McKinney, Feenstra, Baguely, with the two All-Americans.

That was entirely due to the foul situation as both Morehouse and Smith had just picked up their 2nd fouls

Quote from: scottiedawg on January 15, 2022, 08:10:09 PM
I really expect to see more and more McKinney and Feenstra as the season goes on. They are both very dynamic, arguably more so than multiple 1st stringers.

I don't agree.  Sure, you might be able to argue that the starting 5 aren't the best 5 players on the team (although I would also dispute that but it's a fair arguement).  Yesterday McKinney and Feenstra played really well (Feenstra has for several games), but you will see that fluctuate a lot with this team.  Baguley and DeSmit were all tournament players earlier this year, Morehouse lead the team in scoring at Alma - but that misses the point of this team - which is the TEAM.  There are games the so called 2nd team completely outplays the 1st team.  I've seen comments from people outside of the Hope team and fans comment that Hope's 1st & 2nd teams would both be top 5 on their own.    I believe Coach Mo sees them as his starting 10, there just happens to be one set of 5 that always goes first. 

Quote from: scottiedawg on January 15, 2022, 08:10:09 PM
Hope's defense gets the offense going. Albion was extremely impressive taking care of the ball.

100% agree - and that defensive intensity never letting up, and the players knowing they can go full out all the time becuase they play 4-5 minute stretches is the key.

Quote from: scottiedawg on January 15, 2022, 08:10:09 PM
Albion also brought a lot of desire to the boards.  It was rare to see Hope with only small edges in TOs and REBs.

Also agree on this 100%.  I've thought Albion should be Top 25 all season.  They are big, deep, talented, and experienced.  Hope came into the game forcing 26 TO per game, and 17 steals.  Albion had 10 TO, and Hope only 8 steals.  Gotta give the Brits credit for that, even though Hope may have been effected by playing 3 games in 4 days.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 16, 2022, 11:09:04 AM

As good as they are at everything else, it's Hope's depth that will see them as far as they end up going.  Albion beat them for 18 minutes.  They were just better.  If Hope had a drop off beyond the starters, Albion might've been able to hang with them for 40 minutes.  There are just so few teams that will be able to keep up the intensity required to compete with Hope when they're able to rotate 10 players with no real dropoff in production.  That much was clear in those final two minutes of the first half.  A good team can survive and overcome a run like that from an opponent, but most opponents aren't able to bring in fresh legs whenever they need them the whole second half.  It's a really unique situation and something worth all the celebration they're getting.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on January 16, 2022, 06:10:41 PM
Having depth at this level is huge, especially for teams that like to pressure you and get after it on defense.  It's much easier for the gals to play all out all the time when you know you are going to probably play 20 minutes or less a game as opposed to 35-38 minutes a game.  Hope has always had depth.  Trine has too since Andy Rang took over.  If you watch Trine as much as I do you can also argue our 2nd 5 is just as good if not better than our starters.  Defensively the 2nd 5 is better for Trine, and I think they move the ball better offensively too.  While Bieniewicz and Wilder are our best outside shooters, they don't have the quickness of a Rachel Stewart or Alyssa Argyle, or the ability to drive to the rim like Stewart and Argyle.  Sam Underhill is another 2nd 5 gal who could easily be a starter.  Bieniewicz, Wilder and Kelsy Taylor get the pub, but so far this year Rachel Stewart has been our MVP.  I hope the league recognizes this when year end awards are doled out.  It's hard to get noticed when you don't start.  Over the years I'd venture to say that there have been probably very few gals who garner all league accolades when they don't start for their own teams.

Albion hanging with Hope yesterday is somewhat surprising.  When I saw Albion in November when they played a couple games in Trine's tournament they didn't look all that good.  But that is what good teams do, they get better as the season goes on.  Trine goes to Kresge to play Albion this Wednesday.  Massey has Trine winning 65-55.  It will be a hard fought game and Trine will have to play well to come away with a W.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on January 17, 2022, 07:17:59 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on January 16, 2022, 10:32:21 AM
Quote from: scottiedawg on January 15, 2022, 08:10:09 PM
With the game very much in the balance, fascinating to see Morehouse go to the 2nd string with 3:50 left in the 1st half.

Uh, no - that's about as predictable as the sun rising in the east.  That has been his M.O. (sorry - I had to) over the years and even more so with this team.  Leading or trailing he is going to do that.  Keeping them fresh (given their 110% effort on D) is how they wear out other teams. 

Yeah, you're probably right. It'll be interesting how rigid Coach is versus even better teams, cause against a legit team's 1st string you could get in a bind quickly.

Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on January 16, 2022, 10:32:21 AM
Quote from: scottiedawg on January 15, 2022, 08:10:09 PM
But even more interesting was bringing in just Schoonveld and Voskuil a few minutes later, who helped close the half strong. Interesting seeing McKinney, Feenstra, Baguely, with the two All-Americans.

That was entirely due to the foul situation as both Morehouse and Smith had just picked up their 2nd fouls

Good catch. Rare chance to see a lineup configuration that wasn't a complete line change.

Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on January 16, 2022, 10:32:21 AM
Quote from: scottiedawg on January 15, 2022, 08:10:09 PM
I really expect to see more and more McKinney and Feenstra as the season goes on. They are both very dynamic, arguably more so than multiple 1st stringers.

I don't agree.  Sure, you might be able to argue that the starting 5 aren't the best 5 players on the team (although I would also dispute that but it's a fair arguement).  Yesterday McKinney and Feenstra played really well (Feenstra has for several games), but you will see that fluctuate a lot with this team.  Baguley and DeSmit were all tournament players earlier this year, Morehouse lead the team in scoring at Alma - but that misses the point of this team - which is the TEAM.  There are games the so called 2nd team completely outplays the 1st team.  I've seen comments from people outside of the Hope team and fans comment that Hope's 1st & 2nd teams would both be top 5 on their own.    I believe Coach Mo sees them as his starting 10, there just happens to be one set of 5 that always goes first. 

I don't disagree at all, but I think tournament basketball really brings the cream to the forefront. If Hope is locked in a crucial late tournament matchup against another top 5 team, does coach stick with his distinct lines?  I think McKinney as a very tall #1 presents some serious matchup problems.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 17, 2022, 08:42:49 PM
Since Coach Mo has not deviated from this pattern when playing Trine the last couple of years, it's not likely he does it in the tournament. This team is defensive intensity 1st and foremost, which comes from the absolute non stop high energy from fresh legs via the existing substitution patterns.

Not sure why you want or expect a change, they've only won 60 in a row, and Coach Mo only has something like a .875 winning percentage.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on January 19, 2022, 08:55:57 PM
Love seeing Muller and DeSmit hesitate less before pulling the trigger on an open 3. The more those two can pose an offensive threat, the more deadly the offense is.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Dutchfan on January 23, 2022, 10:31:04 PM
Hope College is only one of four teams whose starters are playing less half of their teams minutes and is the only team whose starters are providing less than half of their teams points. Please note, however, that I only compiled information on teams ranked in the Top 25 and those who have one or fewer losses. That being said, I think it highly unlikely that any team not in the Top 25 or with more than one loss would come too close to the numbers at the top of these lists. I will, however, expand and update my data when I get a chance.

Team               Starters Ave. Minutes    Starter Minutes by Percent
Hope                         17.68                              44.2%               
Trine                         18.78                              46.9%               
Baldwin Wallace         19.02                              47.5%   
Christopher Newport   19.24                             48.1%
East Texas Baptist      21.02                              52.6%
Mary Hardin-Baylor    21.20                              53.0%
Marietta                    21.40                              53.5%
NYU                          21.60                              54.0%
Webster                    22.56                              56.4%
DePauw                     22.82                             57.0%


Team               Starters PPG    Starter Points by Percent
Hope                         43.9                               47.1%
East Texas Baptist      35.3                               51.1%
Trine                         38.0                               51.1%
Marietta                    37.0                               51.9%
Baldwin Wallace         37.9                               54.4%
Mary Hardin-Baylor    40.8                               55.7%
Christopher Newport   53.4                               58.3%
UW-Oshkosh              40.6                               59.4%
Emmanuel (MA)         43.5                               59.5%
Catholic                     40.3                               59.6%
DePauw                     40.7                               59.9%

Please not that I compiled this data prior to Saturdays games. However, I did not get a chance to post it until now.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: RogK on January 23, 2022, 11:39:10 PM
Birmingham Southern seems to fit :
http://stats.ncaa.org/team/28593/stats/15866
They may be a "System" team, which is based on spreading the minutes and scoring across the roster.
LaVerne is another one :
http://stats.ncaa.org/team/341/stats/15866
although they've had many starters, so you'd have to study each box score to see numbers specific to when they started.
Westfield State?
http://stats.ncaa.org/team/777/stats/15866
I was just going through the top team scoring list. There could be more.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Jester1390 on January 24, 2022, 01:02:00 AM
Dutch blow outs would affect percentages immensely. If Hope was in lets say 75 percent nail biters i would think those numbers would change
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on January 24, 2022, 07:42:15 PM
Trine moves from 4th to 5th in the latest D3Hoops.com poll.

Hope and Albion's vote totals remain unchanged.

Calvin garners a single 25th place vote
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on January 25, 2022, 09:22:42 AM
Noticed that Hope has been leading the nation in team 3 pt % for most of the season, currently at 40.22% which more than 2% higher than 2nd place Simpson.  7 players are averaging over 40% from deep, led by Kate Majerus at 52.9%.  However the minutes and attempts are spread around so much that none of them have enough attempts to qualify as individual leaders.  With this Dutch team, it really is pick your poison...
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on January 25, 2022, 09:39:39 AM
That's why I think it was a big deal to get Muller and DeSmit back shooting 3s last game. Before that, if I had to design a defense against Hope, I'd dare one of Muller/DeSmit/Voskuil to shoot from 3 (esp Voskuil, so she can't offensive board). It's still a design likely to fail, but I don't want Schoonveld or Majerus shooting 3s.

The worst matchup for Hope is a team that doesn't need a large turnover margin to win, and that puts Hope in a slow, halfcourt game. (in my verrrrry amateur opinion). Not sure if that team exists.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on January 25, 2022, 05:31:42 PM
Round two of Hope vs Trine tomorrow night at DeVos.  I'll be watching from home.  Massey has Hope winning 73-61, Massey ranks Hope 1 (no brainer) and Trine 2.  D3Hoops has Hope 1 (again no brainer) and Trine 4.  Bieniewicz and Wilder have to score for us to have a chance.  Hope is the best team at denying Tara from getting any open looks from 3.  I'd like to see her drive to the basket a little more.  Kayla has been shooting better as of late too.  Also need big games from the second unit; Rachel Stewart and Sam Underhill need to look for their shots more.  I'd like a hard-fought close game with the Thunder finally getting a W over their nemesis, but that is wishful thinking. :) Hope has so many weapons and Kenedy can take over a game if she needs to just like she did in December in Angola.   

Dress warmly for those traveling to the game, forecast is for bitter cold here in NE Indiana, so I'm sure it will be the same in Holland. 
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on January 25, 2022, 05:49:26 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on January 25, 2022, 05:31:42 PM
Round two of Hope vs Trine tomorrow night at DeVos.  I'll be watching from home.  Massey has Hope winning 73-61, Massey ranks Hope 1 (no brainer) and Trine 2.  D3Hoops has Hope 1 (again no brainer) and Trine 4.  Bieniewicz and Wilder have to score for us to have a chance.  Hope is the best team at denying Tara from getting any open looks from 3.  I'd like to see her drive to the basket a little more.  Kayla has been shooting better as of late too.  Also need big games from the second unit; Rachel Stewart and Sam Underhill need to look for their shots more.  I'd like a hard-fought close game with the Thunder finally getting a W over their nemesis, but that is wishful thinking. :) Hope has so many weapons and Kenedy can take over a game if she needs to just like she did in December in Angola.   

Dress warmly for those traveling to the game, forecast is for bitter cold here in NE Indiana, so I'm sure it will be the same in Holland. 

Wish I could go but will catch it online.  Maybe Trine is due?  Tall order at Devos but Trine is just the kind of team scottiedawg describes.  Hope has won a few in a row over the Thunder but every game has been a battle.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 25, 2022, 07:14:05 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on January 25, 2022, 09:39:39 AM
That's why I think it was a big deal to get Muller and DeSmit back shooting 3s last game. Before that, if I had to design a defense against Hope, I'd dare one of Muller/DeSmit/Voskuil to shoot from 3 (esp Voskuil, so she can't offensive board). It's still a design likely to fail, but I don't want Schoonveld or Majerus shooting 3s.

Sorry scottie, but that does not at all reflect this team, nor the shooting percentages of the individuals.  At this point in the season, Kennedy actually has the lowest 3pt % of the starting 5.  Additionally, DeSmit has attempted more 3pt shots than any other Hope player.  Here they are in order based on shooting percentage

Kate Majerus - 27-51 - .529
Olivia Voskuil - 7-15 - .467
Kasey DeSmit - 24-56 - .429
Sydney Muller - 8-19 - .421
Kenedy Schoonveld - 19-47 - .404

So the starting 5 is actually shooting .451 from 3. 

Will also be watching online tomorrow, and I fully expect another war between two great teams.  Hope has won 7 in a row, but they have been close games until late and the largest margin of victory has been 10 points (last years MIAA tournament final).

Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on January 26, 2022, 09:23:58 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on January 17, 2022, 08:42:49 PM
Since Coach Mo has not deviated from this pattern when playing Trine the last couple of years, it's not likely he does it in the tournament. This team is defensive intensity 1st and foremost, which comes from the absolute non stop high energy from fresh legs via the existing substitution patterns.

Not sure why you want or expect a change, they've only won 60 in a row, and Coach Mo only has something like a .875 winning percentage.

Coach totally chose McKinney and Feenstra over DeSmit and Majerus tonight.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on January 26, 2022, 09:29:47 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on January 25, 2022, 07:14:05 PM
Sorry scottie, but that does not at all reflect this team, nor the shooting percentages of the individuals.  At this point in the season, Kennedy actually has the lowest 3pt % of the starting 5.  Additionally, DeSmit has attempted more 3pt shots than any other Hope player.  Here they are in order based on shooting percentage

Kate Majerus - 27-51 - .529
Olivia Voskuil - 7-15 - .467
Kasey DeSmit - 24-56 - .429
Sydney Muller - 8-19 - .421
Kenedy Schoonveld - 19-47 - .404

So the starting 5 is actually shooting .451 from 3. 

Very fair. I had no idea DeSmit (1) had attempted that many, (2) at that solid clip.

Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 26, 2022, 10:13:29 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on January 26, 2022, 09:23:58 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on January 17, 2022, 08:42:49 PM
Since Coach Mo has not deviated from this pattern when playing Trine the last couple of years, it's not likely he does it in the tournament. This team is defensive intensity 1st and foremost, which comes from the absolute non stop high energy from fresh legs via the existing substitution patterns.

Not sure why you want or expect a change, they've only won 60 in a row, and Coach Mo only has something like a .875 winning percentage.

Coach totally chose McKinney and Feenstra over DeSmit and Majerus tonight.

Yep - the correct in-game adjustment based in n the situation and how the players were performing in this game.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on January 26, 2022, 10:17:43 PM
Trine 70 Hope 62

Congrats to the Thunder on the big win.  Hope's furious comeback fell just a little short in the 4th quarter.

Random thoughts:

Tara with probably her best game against Hope as the Dutch usually find a way to limit her touches.  Tonight she was able to get some open looks which rarely happens.  Kayla and Rachel were also very effective which we absolutely needed, and I thought Alyssa played well as a spot starter tonight.

Our bench was very thin tonight.  Neither of the Sloneker twins played; one was in street clothes on the bench and the other dressed but didn't play.  Not sure if they are both battling recent injuries or illness.  We basically played 8 the whole game and it showed in the 4th quarter as we looked very tired and turned the ball over a ton.  But the short bench may have been an advantage on the offensive end to get Tara, Rachel, Kayla and Alyssa more minutes than they usually get as they all got between 25-35 minutes tonight.   

Congrats to Hope on their accomplishments with the 61 game win streak.  You never really want to lose, but this loss may help the team re-focus on the task at hand...winning the national championship.  Just a tough shooting night for the Dutch, but the effort was outstanding.  Hope just pounds the offensive boards so much, we had no answer in blocking them out.  Feenstra was an animal on the glass, actually Hope's whole second unit seems more aggressive defensively than the first unit.  I think this team is more dangerous when they full court pressure you on defense and drive to the hoop and crash the boards on offense.  You can't always rely on your 3 point shooting, especially against teams like a Trine who play very good defense too.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 26, 2022, 10:23:35 PM
Pretty impressive performance by Trine tonight on both ends of the floor. They clearly won this game on both ends of the floor. The one weakness they showed was the 25 offensive rebounds they allowed Hope to grab, but the Dutch shooting tonight was not good - most often because the Thunder defense recovered well.

From a Hope perspective, I sensed a lack of energy from the starting 5. The second 5 certainly kept Hope in this game bringing good defensive pressure. Coach Mo obviously saw that as well, as 4 of the second 5 logged over 20 minutes.

Lots to learn from this I'm sure (like defending the back door cuts), and no easy game coming on Saturday at Albion. I'm hoping they can use this to make them even better and more well prepared for what is yet to come this season.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: pointlem on January 26, 2022, 11:58:55 PM
Excellent analyses by both TUAngola and FDF. When Hope's past national championship caliber teams have lost, it has been on nights where they had a lid on the basket. And such was tonight, with Hope's nation-leading 3-point shooters combining for but 3 of 20, and missing 13 free throws. Their shooting was so cold tonight--27% for the game--that they seemed to lose confidence and pass up wide open 3's, often with forced shots or turnovers following. But of course, Trine's stellar defense was part of that. Their double teams underneath gave Hope few of its usual easy layups.

I wouldn't attribute Hope's loss to lack of effort. They forced Trine into 6 more turnovers, grabbed 12 more rebounds, and attempted 12 more shots and 23 more free throws--all of which would normally predict a victory . . . and (speaking as a Hope fan) hopefully will favor Hope on a likely third meeting . . . which, if neither loses again, would be played where? (Decided by a coin toss?)

So sorry to see the fun of the streak ended. But if they had to have one cold-shooting night this season, it's better now than later. And it's a tribute to this team that they could shoot that badly against a top 4 team and still be one missed 3-point shot in the last minute away from a tie game.



Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: sac on January 27, 2022, 12:45:44 AM
Trine played a really great game, start to finish a deserved victory in every way.  Hope to its credit really put the screws to them in the 4th Q, and made Trine execute under a little pressure.  Hope just let to many small opportunities get away starting with a very poor 4Q at the foul line, one or two possessions that could have cut it to 1 or tie went empty.


Key thing missed in the hoopla is that Trine now holds the tie-breaker for hosting the MIAA semi-finals. 
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Dutchfan on January 27, 2022, 06:57:15 AM
From my observations last night there were two key factors to Trine defeating Hope.

1. Quality of shots. Trine had much better shoot selection than Hope did. This was of course due in large part to Trine's defense. It really showed in the shooting percentages for each team.

2. Coaching. Brian Morehouse is a great coach and I'm a huge fan of his. That being said, he waited WAY too long to abandon his platooning scheme and go with a mixed lineup. As soon as he did, Hope closed the gap and made a game of it. If he had made that adjustment at halftime rather than the fourth quarter, Hope may have won the game.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on January 27, 2022, 08:12:17 AM
In a gross oversimplification, maybe the story of the game was Hope shooting 27% including 15% from 3 pt range.  Complete credit to Trine's defense for that.  The Dutch also left 13 points at the foul line.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on January 27, 2022, 08:31:42 AM
Agree with most of the analysis already posted of last night's game. A few other observations/opinions...

1. Why is Kasey so hesitant to launch the open three?! She was 0-3 last night, and I feel like all three she hesitated and gave the defender time to get a hand in her face.

2. Hope needs to quit with the cross court passes through traffic. Way too many turnovers. Credit Trine for making the plays, but Hope need to take care of the ball better. Their offense looked very forced all night long.

3. Who am I to question Coach Mo? But... why did the defensive strategy around Tara change between the game at Trine vs the game at Hope? Hope refused to allow her to score in the first game and demanded Rachel and Kayla get the job done. Last night, they seemed much more willing to allow Tara to be involved in Trine's offense. She gladly accepted the offer to the tune of 4 for 9 from 3 and 18 points total.

4. 15% from 3 and 65% from the stripe is a recipe for getting beat. But even some of the easy shot were being missed. And most of those misses were WAY off, not just balls that rimmed out.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on January 27, 2022, 09:17:45 AM
Quote from: Dutchfan on January 27, 2022, 06:57:15 AM
From my observations last night there were two key factors to Trine defeating Hope.

1. Quality of shots. Trine had much better shoot selection than Hope did. This was of course due in large part to Trine's defense. It really showed in the shooting percentages for each team.

2. Coaching. Brian Morehouse is a great coach and I'm a huge fan of his. That being said, he waited WAY too long to abandon his platooning scheme and go with a mixed lineup. As soon as he did, Hope closed the gap and made a game of it. If he had made that adjustment at halftime rather than the fourth quarter, Hope may have won the game.
I agree!  Yes, the 1st unit and 2nd unit platoon works for most games for both Trine and Hope.  But this was absolutely the game to "mix it up".  In a game as big as this Schoonveld and Voskuil needed to play closer to 30 minutes, not 20.  Because once the NCAA tournament starts there are going to be more games like this one where you have to go with your best players more than the platoon system.  Meg Moorehouse, Feenstra, Smith, they all were way more effective than Majerus and DeSmit last night.  The splitting of the 1st and 2nd units worked well for Trine last night, although some of it was out of necessity with the Sloneker twins out of the lineup and Underhill in foul trouble all night.  Another girl for Trine who did yeoman's work last night was Kelsey Taylor.  Her stats don't jump off the page, but she logged 33 minutes, by far the most of the season for her.  She was basically our only 'big' available with Underhill in foul trouble and Brauher not ready for this type of game as a freshman.   
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on January 27, 2022, 09:31:51 AM
...also wanted to comment on the attendance last night...2380 in person, tremendous turnout!  When I was watching the video feed there were also well over 1000 viewers too.  Most definitely the most watched D3 game this year, and maybe in a long, long time.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: pointlem on January 27, 2022, 09:36:35 AM
Quote from: HOPEful on January 27, 2022, 08:31:42 AM
Why is Kasey so hesitant to launch the open three?!
Actually, several ace Hope shooters seemed to hesitate, then pass up, what, in hindsight, were the best available shots of a possession. By contrast, the Trine guards, when given a 3-point look, more unhesitatingly took what the game gave them. (Especially after a 3-point miss, many players seem to lose confidence when the game shortly after gives them another similar opportunity.)

That said, given that Hope could shoot that badly and its highly-ranked opponent shoot that well . . . and Hope still be one missed basket away from a tie in the final minute . . . I like Hope's chances going forward.

Sac, so how does the tie-breaker work: the most recent game trumps an earlier game?
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: sac on January 27, 2022, 10:37:16 AM
Quote from: pointlem on January 27, 2022, 09:36:35 AM

Sac, so how does the tie-breaker work: the most recent game trumps an earlier game?

The last tie-breaker should be record in second round-robin.  FYI, Trine hosts both Albion/Calvin really the only two teams capable of threatening them I think.

I'll try and find the MIAA tie-breakers and post it later if I can. 
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on January 28, 2022, 06:17:27 AM
Quote from: pointlem on January 27, 2022, 09:36:35 AM
Quote from: HOPEful on January 27, 2022, 08:31:42 AM
Why is Kasey so hesitant to launch the open three?!
Actually, several ace Hope shooters seemed to hesitate, then pass up, what, in hindsight, were the best available shots of a possession...
I agree. I focused on Kasey because, in my opinion, Hope has two players that are so deadly from three, I don't want them ever passing up an open look... Kate and Kasey. And while Kennedy, Savannah, and Olivia are all capable three point shooters, their bread and butter isn't necessarily behind the arc.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: deiscanton on January 28, 2022, 08:11:04 AM
Quote from: sac on January 27, 2022, 10:37:16 AM
Quote from: pointlem on January 27, 2022, 09:36:35 AM

Sac, so how does the tie-breaker work: the most recent game trumps an earlier game?

The last tie-breaker should be record in second round-robin.  FYI, Trine hosts both Albion/Calvin really the only two teams capable of threatening them I think.

I'll try and find the MIAA tie-breakers and post it later if I can.

If Hope and Trine finish 15-1 in MIAA play, wouldn't the fairest way to determine the #1 seed and home field advantage for the MIAA tournament be by a coin toss conducted by the Commissioner of the MIAA?  Hope and Trine would be declared as MIAA Women's Basketball Co-Champions since the regular season record determines the MIAA league title. 

In the UAA in the 2000-01 women's basketball season, (excluding the results of their matches with Johns Hopkins), Wash U and NYU finished 13-1 in the UAA games where they did not play JHU, and 14-1 in UAA play when the contests vs JHU were taken into account.  (In addition, Wash U and NYU were ranked #1 and #2 in the D3Hoops.com Top 25 poll at the time as well.)  NYU and Wash U were declared UAA Co-Champions, and NYU won the UAA AQ to the 2001 NCAA DIII Women's Basketball tournament by virtue of a coin flip conducted by "Mr. UAA" Dick Rasmussen (in his role as Executive Secretary of the Association).  Wash U got the first Pool C bid and went on to win their 4th national title in a row.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 28, 2022, 09:30:06 AM
Quote from: deiscanton on January 28, 2022, 08:11:04 AM
Quote from: sac on January 27, 2022, 10:37:16 AM
Quote from: pointlem on January 27, 2022, 09:36:35 AM

Sac, so how does the tie-breaker work: the most recent game trumps an earlier game?
Quote

The last tie-breaker should be record in second round-robin.  FYI, Trine hosts both Albion/Calvin really the only two teams capable of threatening them I think.

I'll try and find the MIAA tie-breakers and post it later if I can.

If Hope and Trine finish 15-1 in MIAA play, wouldn't the fairest way to determine the #1 seed and home field advantage for the MIAA tournament be by a coin toss conducted by the Commissioner of the MIAA?  Hope and Trine would be declared as MIAA Women's Basketball Co-Champions since the regular season record determines the MIAA league title. 

In the UAA in the 2000-01 women's basketball season, (excluding the results of their matches with Johns Hopkins), Wash U and NYU finished 13-1 in the UAA games where they did not play JHU, and 14-1 in UAA play when the contests vs JHU were taken into account.  (In addition, Wash U and NYU were ranked #1 and #2 in the D3Hoops.com Top 25 poll at the time as well.)  NYU and Wash U were declared UAA Co-Champions, and NYU won the UAA AQ to the 2001 NCAA DIII Women's Basketball tournament by virtue of a coin flip conducted by "Mr. UAA" Dick Rasmussen (in his role as Executive Secretary of the Association).  Wash U got the first Pool C bid and went on to win their 4th national title in a row.

Been there, done that (multiple times) in the MIAA, and nobody liked it.  With this method, the decision is squarely in the hands of the teams, who all know the rules (or at least I assume the coaches do).
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: deiscanton on January 28, 2022, 10:11:27 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on January 28, 2022, 09:30:06 AM
Quote from: deiscanton on January 28, 2022, 08:11:04 AM
Quote from: sac on January 27, 2022, 10:37:16 AM
Quote from: pointlem on January 27, 2022, 09:36:35 AM

Sac, so how does the tie-breaker work: the most recent game trumps an earlier game?
Quote

The last tie-breaker should be record in second round-robin.  FYI, Trine hosts both Albion/Calvin really the only two teams capable of threatening them I think.

I'll try and find the MIAA tie-breakers and post it later if I can.

If Hope and Trine finish 15-1 in MIAA play, wouldn't the fairest way to determine the #1 seed and home field advantage for the MIAA tournament be by a coin toss conducted by the Commissioner of the MIAA?  Hope and Trine would be declared as MIAA Women's Basketball Co-Champions since the regular season record determines the MIAA league title. 

In the UAA in the 2000-01 women's basketball season, (excluding the results of their matches with Johns Hopkins), Wash U and NYU finished 13-1 in the UAA games where they did not play JHU, and 14-1 in UAA play when the contests vs JHU were taken into account.  (In addition, Wash U and NYU were ranked #1 and #2 in the D3Hoops.com Top 25 poll at the time as well.)  NYU and Wash U were declared UAA Co-Champions, and NYU won the UAA AQ to the 2001 NCAA DIII Women's Basketball tournament by virtue of a coin flip conducted by "Mr. UAA" Dick Rasmussen (in his role as Executive Secretary of the Association).  Wash U got the first Pool C bid and went on to win their 4th national title in a row.

Been there, done that (multiple times) in the MIAA, and nobody liked it.  With this method, the decision is squarely in the hands of the teams, who all know the rules (or at least I assume the coaches do).

No one would ask Hope and Trine to settle the #1 seed for a conference tournament by means of a 1 game playoff on a neutral court.  Maybe a 1 game playoff on a neutral court a la the Old Ivy League rules would suffice if the winner of the playoff got the MIAA AQ.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: sac on January 28, 2022, 10:34:40 AM
Coin toss is still the very last tie-breaker.  The record in 2nd half of round-robin was added several years ago to prevent the coin toss from ever happening again, its essentially nearly impossible to get there now.


However, I do not know how a covid cancelled game might change that if it happens.  Stay tuned.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 28, 2022, 02:20:09 PM
deiscanton- no one ever suggested a one game playoff. The rules are clear - look at records the 2nd time through the double round robin. So Hope came into this game knowing a loss would very likely mean both a shared championship and Trine would be hosting.  Even for a team that won 61 in a row, that should be motivating (if motivation is needed).
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: deiscanton on January 28, 2022, 02:33:26 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on January 28, 2022, 02:20:09 PM
deiscanton- no one ever suggested a one game playoff. The rules are clear - look at records the 2nd time through the double round robin. So Hope came into this game knowing a loss would very likely mean both a shared championship and Trine would be hosting.  Even for a team that won 61 in a row, that should be motivating (if motivation is needed).

Has the MIAA published the tiebreaker rules on its website?  I would like a link to them so that I can confirm that the results of the second time through settle the tiebreaker question in your conference.  A lot of other conferences, including the UAA, do not have results of the second time through double round robin settle conference ties.  I am more familiar with (1) head to head, (2) results vs descending teams from top to bottom in the conference standings, and (3) best record in road league games.  Your league is unique in that it weighs the results of games in the second half of the double round robin more heavily than in the first half.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on January 28, 2022, 03:12:55 PM
Quote from: deiscanton on January 28, 2022, 02:33:26 PM
Has the MIAA published the tiebreaker rules on its website?  I would like a link to them so that I can confirm that the results of the second time through settle the tiebreaker question in your conference.  A lot of other conferences, including the UAA, do not have results of the second time through double round robin settle conference ties.  I am more familiar with (1) head to head, (2) results vs descending teams from top to bottom in the conference standings, and (3) best record in road league games.  Your league is unique in that it weighs the results of games in the second half of the double round robin more heavily than in the first half.

Those are the order in the MIAA as well...
1. head to head... both teams are 1-1.
2. results vs. descending teams... both teams are undefeated
3. road league games... both teams are undefeated.

So we still have a tie... now what? I've seen overall record used in the past, but I don't love the idea of punishing teams for scheduling hard non-conference opponents. I don't think Trine's loss at Eau-Claire should be the determining factor.

So since no one liked the coin flip, second half of the round robin it is. Seeing as the AWAY team won both contests this year, I'm not certain playing the MIAA Championship game at Trine is a bad thing :)
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: deiscanton on January 28, 2022, 03:23:24 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on January 28, 2022, 03:12:55 PM
Quote from: deiscanton on January 28, 2022, 02:33:26 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on January 28, 2022, 02:20:09 PM
deiscanton- no one ever suggested a one game playoff. The rules are clear - look at records the 2nd time through the double round robin. So Hope came into this game knowing a loss would very likely mean both a shared championship and Trine would be hosting.  Even for a team that won 61 in a row, that should be motivating (if motivation is needed).

Has the MIAA published the tiebreaker rules on its website?  I would like a link to them so that I can confirm that the results of the second time through settle the tiebreaker question in your conference.  A lot of other conferences, including the UAA, do not have results of the second time through double round robin settle conference ties.  I am more familiar with (1) head to head, (2) results vs descending teams from top to bottom in the conference standings, and (3) best record in road league games.  Your league is unique in that it weighs the results of games in the second half of the double round robin more heavily than in the first half.

Those the order in the MIAA as well...
1. head to head... both teams are 1-1.
2. results vs. descending teams... both teams are undefeated
3. road league games... both teams are undefeated.

So then what?

In the UAA, tiebreaker #4 is the coin flip.  In the MIAA, tiebreaker #4 apparently is best record/winning pct in the second half of the double round robin, and then tiebreaker #5 is the coin flip.  At least your tiebreaker in this specific case is for who gets the #1 seed in a conference tournament rather than who gets the AQ.

At least in the UAA, they make the tiebreakers transparent in the published UAA Basketball Code of Conduct on their website.  I don't mind if the MIAA has an additional tiebreaker before the coin flip-- I just don't see it published by the conference on their website, so I have to take your word for it.

The MIAA must have had a lot of trouble with coin flips in the past to add an additional tiebreaker.  The coin flip has only been used once to settle a tie for the AQ in UAA Women's Basketball since the UAA was formed in 1987, and it has never been used in UAA Men's Basketball to determine an AQ.  That is why this tiebreaker of results in the second half of the double round robin intrigues me.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on January 28, 2022, 04:00:28 PM
Quote from: deiscanton on January 28, 2022, 03:23:24 PM
The MIAA must have had a lot of trouble with coin flips in the past to add an additional tiebreaker. 

Not trouble, but it's happened quite a few times. For years the MIAA was Hope and Calvin at the top, then everyone else. Now it's Hope and Trine, then everyone. (Not a dig at Albion or Calvin, I promise...)

So it's more common than most for two teams to finish undefeated in the conference outside of splitting the series head-to-head. And giving weight to the second half of the season at least feels slightly less random than a coin flip.

I agree with you though, the MIAA website leaves quite a bit to be desired when it comes to things like this or trying to find historical information.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on January 28, 2022, 09:28:27 PM
I posted elsewhere, but I'm VERY excited to see Morehouse go to school on that Trine tape. Trine played awesome and created most of what Hope did poorly. That said, Trine's approach was very savvy. I think Coach can eliminate a lot of those advantages going forward. It's a treat and tremendous benefit/challenge/information-gathering-opportunity to be able to play a team of Trine's caliber during the regular season.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: sac on January 28, 2022, 09:58:13 PM
My first caveat is that I may be looking at the mens tie-breaker and at one time the MIAA had different tie-breaks for mens and women basketball.  I thought they fixed that and somewhere in my hundreds of messages is the answer, but this is the one I found.

There are actually 8 levels of tie-breaker, I am nearly certain its impossible to get to needing a coin flip without something weird like cancelled games.
1.  Head-to-head
2.  combined record vs team ahead in standings
3.  record against individual teams in descending standings
4.  total conference road wins
5.  road record against each team start at top
6.  record in 2nd half of season
7.  in-region win total
8.  coin toss

I think the last two were added several years ago on the womens side, then adopted by the men a year or two later.  Simply, no one liked the coin toss.



Not sure how #6 gets interpreted with cancellations, rescheduled games and the MIAA's use of a non mirrored schedule.


Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on January 29, 2022, 06:25:43 PM
Kind of another stinker of a shooting game for Hope's normally sharp shooting team in a 51-38 win over a very tough Albion team.  But my take away is positive in that the typically strong defense kept them in the game (38 pts allowed against a good team!) and the depth played out when Hope outscored Albion 15-4 in the 4th period.  This is a formula that bodes well for the post season in that a bad shooting game doesn't necessarily finish your season unless perhaps you're playing one of the very toughest teams out there, like a Trine.  Nice gritty win for the Dutch.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on January 31, 2022, 09:08:18 PM
Hope loses 49 votes and is now ranked #3 in the D3Hoops.com poll.

Trine gains 44 votes and is now ranked #2.

Albion loses 4 votes and is 9th in Others Receiving Votes (ORV).

Calvin loses its single vote.

Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on February 01, 2022, 03:42:02 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on January 31, 2022, 09:08:18 PM
Hope loses 49 votes and is now ranked #3 in the D3Hoops.com poll.

Trine gains 44 votes and is now ranked #2.

Albion loses 4 votes and is 9th in Others Receiving Votes (ORV).

Calvin loses its single vote.

CNU hasn't played anyone noteworthy all year. Hope lost to the now #2 team in the country after beating them on their court.

Personally, I'd put Hope #1, Trine #2, and Simpson #3
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: pointlem on February 01, 2022, 04:14:11 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on February 01, 2022, 03:42:02 PM
CNU hasn't played anyone noteworthy all year. Hope lost to the now #2 team in the country after beating them on their court.

Personally, I'd put Hope #1, Trine #2, and Simpson #3
I see that Massey Ratings still has Hope #1 (by a comfortable margin), with Trine #2, and CN #3.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 01, 2022, 05:21:40 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on February 01, 2022, 03:42:02 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on January 31, 2022, 09:08:18 PM
Hope loses 49 votes and is now ranked #3 in the D3Hoops.com poll.

Trine gains 44 votes and is now ranked #2.

Albion loses 4 votes and is 9th in Others Receiving Votes (ORV).

Calvin loses its single vote.

CNU hasn't played anyone noteworthy all year. Hope lost to the now #2 team in the country after beating them on their court.

Personally, I'd put Hope #1, Trine #2, and Simpson #3

This is how I've been voting since the first Hope-Trine game.  Nothing changed this week.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on February 01, 2022, 06:26:56 PM
Interestingly, today's WBCA poll had CNU #1, Transylvania #2, Hope #3, Whitman #4, Trine #5 and Simpson #6.

Having watched all these teams at least a little bit, I just don't see it that way based on the eye test.  WBCA seems to emphasize an undefeated record and I can sympathize with that; those teams have beaten everyone put in front of them.  It will all get sorted out within 2 months!
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on February 02, 2022, 09:35:31 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 01, 2022, 06:26:56 PM
Interestingly, today's WBCA poll had CNU #1, Transylvania #2, Hope #3, Whitman #4, Trine #5 and Simpson #6.

Having watched all these teams at least a little bit, I just don't see it that way based on the eye test.  WBCA seems to emphasize an undefeated record and I can sympathize with that; those teams have beaten everyone put in front of them.  It will all get sorted out within 2 months!

I basically said the same thing to my wife, whose anger was noticeable when she learned Hope dropped to #3 after winning 61 straight games. Assuming both teams take care of business, the winner of the Hope/Trine MIAA championship game will be set up just fine for the playoffs.

Still, I don't understand how anyone that has seen or has basic understanding of all the top 10ish programs puts CNU or Transylvania ahead of Hope right now. Hope is the deepest team in D3 women's basketball that I can ever remember. So... if you're ranking someone ahead of them, you are saying that you believe that teams starting 5 is just that much better than Hope's. With all due respect to Sondra Fan, Anaya Simmons, and Natalie Terwilliger, i'll take Voskuil, Schoonveld, and Muller over them any day. The way Kelsi Taylor has been playing, I'd take Tara, Kelsi and Kayla at Trine over them too. But if we're judging just by best starting 3, I'll take Taylor, Nash, and Kincaid at Simpson over anyone. Simpson only really plays 7 deep though... which I think would be a problem against Hope.

As a Hope fan, I would worry much more about facing Trine or Simpson in the playoffs than I would facing CNU.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 02, 2022, 09:48:38 AM
Olivet @ Adrian and Trine @ Albion games have both been reschduled for tomorrow night (2/3) at 7:30 pm
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on February 02, 2022, 10:39:17 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 01, 2022, 05:21:40 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on February 01, 2022, 03:42:02 PM
Personally, I'd put Hope #1, Trine #2, and Simpson #3
This is how I've been voting since the first Hope-Trine game.  Nothing changed this week.

I've always liked you Ryan ;)
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 03, 2022, 04:48:23 PM
Transylvania is the one I REALLY don't get.

CNU hasn't played the greatest slate, but they've buzz-sawed through the majority and pass the eye test.

Simpson has a pretty strong batch of wins.

But 14/16 of Transylvania's wins (see below), I'm pretty sure most of the top 10 go 14/14 against. Which means that they're not useful for differentiating between teams. Undefeated can come with a lot of smoke

Rose-Hulman
Rose-Hulman
Piedmont
Bluffton
Bluffton
Berea
Wilmington OH
Hanover
Anderson IN
Capital
Franklin
Manchester
E Nazarene
Spalding

Sure a road win over Tufts and a home win over John Carroll are very impressive, but I think people see 16-0 and get googly eyes. If Transylvania had a single loss against say a Babson/Bowdoin/Pacific type, I bet they're ranked around 10 (which IMO would be too low).

Arguably Hope and Trine own the 2 most impressive wins in all of D3 this year. Hope winning @ Trine, and Trine winning @ Hope.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: AlwaysHope on February 03, 2022, 10:54:24 PM
Sydney Vis has committed to Hope College.  6'2" forward, and 1,000 point scorer for South Christian HS:  https://twitter.com/sydneyvis

With all the seniors Hope has graduating, including the entire starting lineup, this is welcomed news!

Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on February 08, 2022, 09:07:59 AM
Nice game for the Dutch last night with an 89-41 win vs. a solid Alma squad.  Hope put this one away early, breaking out of a bit of a shooting slump that started with the Trine game.  Hope had slipped from #1 in the nation in team 3pt % to number 3, but last night returned to form hitting nearly 50% from the field overall including 47% rom beyond the arc.  Hope is noted for its ball movement and making the extra pass, but it seemed to me watching the St Mary's game that they were almost over-passing, continuing to move the ball even when they had a wide open three.  Perhaps that was by design, given their overmatched opponent.  I think sometimes when you don't take that open three when it's there, you become too deliberate when you do eventually shoot rather than shooting within the flow of the game.  In any case everyone played with no one getting more than 19 minutes and scoring was spread among 14 players.  Rivalry game at Calvin tomorrow!
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 08, 2022, 09:45:10 AM
In their previous 3 games, Hope was 9-59 (.152) from 3, including a 1st Q against St Marys where they went 0-11.  That will certainly lead to some passing up open 3 opportunities.  It was actually pretty amazing to see Hope up over St Marys 18-5 aafter 1Q, given that 0-11 from 3 in that period.  Hopefully that slump is over for good.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 08, 2022, 01:17:46 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 08, 2022, 09:07:59 AM
Hope is noted for its ball movement and making the extra pass, but it seemed to me watching the St Mary's game that they were almost over-passing, continuing to move the ball even when they had a wide open three.  Perhaps that was by design, given their overmatched opponent.  I think sometimes when you don't take that open three when it's there, you become too deliberate when you do eventually shoot rather than shooting within the flow of the game. 

100% agree.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: pointlem on February 08, 2022, 02:22:01 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 08, 2022, 01:17:46 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 08, 2022, 09:07:59 AM
Hope is noted for its ball movement and making the extra pass, but it seemed to me watching the St Mary's game that they were almost over-passing, continuing to move the ball even when they had a wide open three.  Perhaps that was by design, given their overmatched opponent.  I think sometimes when you don't take that open three when it's there, you become too deliberate when you do eventually shoot rather than shooting within the flow of the game. 

100% agree.

I noticed the same . . . as if players had lost confidence in taking the open 3 when the game gave it to them, only to settle for a lesser shot as the clock ran down. Last night, they seemed to have their confidence--and their shooting--back.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on February 08, 2022, 03:20:25 PM
Quote from: pointlem on February 08, 2022, 02:22:01 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 08, 2022, 01:17:46 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 08, 2022, 09:07:59 AM
Hope is noted for its ball movement and making the extra pass, but it seemed to me watching the St Mary's game that they were almost over-passing, continuing to move the ball even when they had a wide open three.  Perhaps that was by design, given their overmatched opponent.  I think sometimes when you don't take that open three when it's there, you become too deliberate when you do eventually shoot rather than shooting within the flow of the game. 
100% agree.
I noticed the same . . . as if players had lost confidence in taking the open 3 when the game gave it to them, only to settle for a lesser shot as the clock ran down. Last night, they seemed to have their confidence--and their shooting--back.

This has been somewhat of a problem all year. I just think culturally this team is to TOO unselfish. I want my superstar, 5th year seniors to want the ball in their hand and be looking to drain the open three or take it hard to the rim when the opponent switches and they have a mismatch. I don't know what's worse, the hesitation three that turns it from open to contested or the extra, unnecessary pass into traffic.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 08, 2022, 03:29:35 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on February 08, 2022, 03:20:25 PM
Quote from: pointlem on February 08, 2022, 02:22:01 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 08, 2022, 01:17:46 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 08, 2022, 09:07:59 AM
Hope is noted for its ball movement and making the extra pass, but it seemed to me watching the St Mary's game that they were almost over-passing, continuing to move the ball even when they had a wide open three.  Perhaps that was by design, given their overmatched opponent.  I think sometimes when you don't take that open three when it's there, you become too deliberate when you do eventually shoot rather than shooting within the flow of the game. 
100% agree.
I noticed the same . . . as if players had lost confidence in taking the open 3 when the game gave it to them, only to settle for a lesser shot as the clock ran down. Last night, they seemed to have their confidence--and their shooting--back.

This has been somewhat of a problem all year. I just think culturally this team is to TOO unselfish. I want my superstar, 5th year seniors to want the ball in their hand and be looking to drain the open three or take it hard to the rim when the opponent switches and they have a mismatch. I don't know what's worse, the hesitation three that turns it from open to contested or the extra, unnecessary pass into traffic.

Not sure I would call it a problem folks.  I mean let's keep things in perspective here.  NCAA stats (including games through 2/7/22) shows this Hope team ranked like this:

#2 in Scoring Offense: 89.0 PPG
#5 in Scoring Defense: 47.0 PPG
#1 in Scoring Margin: 41.9 PPG
#2 in FG%: .481
#2 in 3PT%: .371

Total speculation on my part, but if there was any hesitancy in shooting threes, I believe it may have been Coach Mo after an 0-11 first Q vs St Mary's encouraging his team to move the ball and find better inside shots. 
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on February 08, 2022, 04:08:43 PM
We do get spoiled, don't we :)

This is a team loaded with sharpshooters top to bottom.  Certainly that 15% over the three game stretch that included a loss to Trine and a closer than expected game vs Albion was some cause for concern.  But as I said in another post, the fact that they could put up such shaky numbers and still win vs Albion and almost pull out the Trine game is a testament to the strength of their overall game.  It should serve them well come tournament time since an off shooting night won't necessarily end their season.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on February 08, 2022, 05:38:58 PM
Trine with a hard-fought win over Albion last night.  I was impressed with the Brits; they've improved tremendously since I saw them play last November.  Trine turned in a dominant defensive performance in the 1st half, probably the best defense I've seen them play this year, holding Albion to 12 points.  However, Trine couldn't pull away at all as Albion has really improved their defensive pressure, they have perimeter players who will guard you well beyond the 3-point line.  They turned us over way more than any other team not named Hope.  In the second half Albion was able to make some adjustments on offense and get a few more open looks.  I actually thought we played decent, although Tara struggled to get anything going offensively.  We did go up 18 at one point in the 4th quarter, but Albion scored 11 unanswered points to make things interesting at the end.

The Thunder play at Kalamazoo tomorrow night then return home Saturday with another test from a pretty good Calvin squad.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on February 08, 2022, 06:27:53 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 08, 2022, 05:38:58 PM
Trine with a hard-fought win over Albion last night.  I was impressed with the Brits; they've improved tremendously since I saw them play last November.  Trine turned in a dominant defensive performance in the 1st half, probably the best defense I've seen them play this year, holding Albion to 12 points.  However, Trine couldn't pull away at all as Albion has really improved their defensive pressure, they have perimeter players who will guard you well beyond the 3-point line.  They turned us over way more than any other team not named Hope.  In the second half Albion was able to make some adjustments on offense and get a few more open looks.  I actually thought we played decent, although Tara struggled to get anything going offensively.  We did go up 18 at one point in the 4th quarter, but Albion scored 11 unanswered points to make things interesting at the end.

The Thunder play at Kalamazoo tomorrow night then return home Saturday with another test from a pretty good Calvin squad.

Agree, Albion is kind of scary.  A really tough out.  There was discussion the other day on the Top 25 thread about Ithaca and how they might surprise some people.  I put Albion in the same category, in fact Massey has them at #30 vs. Ithaca at #42.  The trouble is that the MIAA is not typically a 3-team league for the NCAA tournament and Albion will likely have at least 7 losses after the MIAA tournament.  6 of them likely at the hands of teams currently ranked #8 or higher nationally; in a fair world that wouldn't DQ them from a 64 team tournament.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on February 09, 2022, 10:05:45 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 08, 2022, 03:29:35 PM
Not sure I would call it a problem folks.  I mean let's keep things in perspective here.  NCAA stats (including games through 2/7/22) shows this Hope team ranked like this:

#2 in Scoring Offense: 89.0 PPG
#5 in Scoring Defense: 47.0 PPG
#1 in Scoring Margin: 41.9 PPG
#2 in FG%: .481
#2 in 3PT%: .371

Total speculation on my part, but if there was any hesitancy in shooting threes, I believe it may have been Coach Mo after an 0-11 first Q vs St Mary's encouraging his team to move the ball and find better inside shots.

I understand. But a 61 game win streak demands critiquing the team on something other than the numbers they stack up against 95% of the teams on their schedule that are woefully outmatched. Sure being a top ten scoring offense and defense is impressive, but is beating St. Mary's 101-41 or Kalamazoo 112-31 an indicator of how they'll preform in the playoffs?

In many ways, this team is National Championship or bust. Noticing and fixing the hesitation or extra unnecessary pass in games you win by 50 can be the difference in the close games against teams like Trine down the stretch.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 09, 2022, 12:38:00 PM
Looking at those same stats in Hope's 8 toughest games (Trine, Trine, Albion, Albion, Calvin, B-W, Alma, Mt. Union), and.....the differences aren't as big as I was expecting:

Scoring Offense: 78.0 PPG
Scoring Defense: 51.5 PPG
Scoring Margin: 26.5 PPG
FG%: 41.15%
3PT%: 37.20%

Pretty impressive that 3PT% is the same against good teams as it is for the entire season.

One difference is that in the first 6 of those games, Hope averaged 9 made 3s per game.

They've averaged 3.5 in the recent games vs Trine and Albion (hard to infer that much though from such a small sample size)

11 made 3s against B-W and Calvin is impressive!
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on February 10, 2022, 10:43:20 AM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 09, 2022, 12:38:00 PM
Looking at those same stats in Hope's 8 toughest games (Trine, Trine, Albion, Albion, Calvin, B-W, Alma, Mt. Union), and.....the differences aren't as big as I was expecting:

Scoring Offense: 78.0 PPG
Scoring Defense: 51.5 PPG
Scoring Margin: 26.5 PPG
FG%: 41.15%
3PT%: 37.20%

Pretty impressive that 3PT% is the same against good teams as it is for the entire season.

One difference is that in the first 6 of those games, Hope averaged 9 made 3s per game.

They've averaged 3.5 in the recent games vs Trine and Albion (hard to infer that much though from such a small sample size)

11 made 3s against B-W and Calvin is impressive!

In the last two wins, Kasey has been 3 for 5 and 2 for 3 from three. I love it!

When she is firing and hitting, that starting five is just unbeatable. Voskuil and Schoonveld will always draw the defenses attention, so there's just sooooooo much opportunity for Kasey, Kate, and Sydney to get great looks. And from three, Kate is 54.2% on the year, Sydney 42.3%, and Kasey 39.7%!!! Oh, and Olivia is over 40% too...

So Hope's 4 starters the aren't 1st team pre-season All Americans all shoot at or above 40% from 3. Fire away ladies!!!

Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on February 10, 2022, 11:11:11 AM
Nice to see the Dutch on fire yet again from beyond the arc, 56% with 9 makes on 16 attempts vs Calvin last night.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on February 13, 2022, 12:28:43 PM
Expected big 94-44 win for Hope yesterday over an overmatched but game Olivet team.  A couple of interesting things to note for the Dutch:

- Starters all played 15 minutes or less, everyone scored and everyone played good minutes.
- Team 3pt % was a solid 35% with starters at 50%.  Kate Majerus was 3-4 bringing her season total to 35-63 for a crazy 55.6%
- Coach Mo experimented with a little zone in the 2nd half.  Not sure if the intent was to give Olivet a little break from Hope's normal traps (Hope was +19 for TO on the game), or to practice a zone, but it sure didn't look like a Hope defense....

I didn't see the game but looks like Trine put Calvin away early and coasted in from there.  Quite impressive, Massey had Calvin at #19 (still #24 after the loss) but the Thunder seem to be firing on all cylinders.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on February 13, 2022, 02:39:12 PM
Trine with a senior day win over Calvin yesterday 65-47 before 1030 at the MTI Center.  Trine with an impressive 1st half, defense was locked in, our offense was very efficient, and we shot lights out from 3-point line.  We went into the locker room with a 44-21 lead.  In the second half Calvin played much better, their defensive pressure ratcheted up a notch, and we may have lost some focus too after the big start.  We only shot 5-25 in the second half.  If Albion/Calvin played in any other league they'd get more national attention as they both have solid programs.  I've always been a big Gabby Timmer fan and it was good to see her play well yesterday.  Anytime we drove into the lane she was there either to block or alter our shots, especially in the second half.  For Trine it was great to see a couple of our injured gals make it back onto the court.  Kaylee Argyle had been out since early December but has been cleared to play and got into both of the games this week.  This is huge as she is a great leader.  She started yesterday and scored 7 points and had 5 rebounds.  I'm not sure if there is a better rebounding 5'3" player around.  Natalee Kunse, although not at 100%, got in for 3 minutes for senior day and was happy to see her score on a rebound bucket in the 1st half.

Congratulations Seniors!  This class will go down as the winningest in Tri-State/Trine history.  They have a record of 83-14 over their 4 years so far.  7 of those losses have come to Hope, so 7 losses in 4 years to anyone besides Hope is pretty impressive.  They did not lose to any other conference team in those 4 years.  Here is a little bio about each on their future plans:

Kaylee Argyle - Freeland MI.  Accounting Major and will be moving to Indianapolis after graduation and work for an accounting firm.
Tara Bieniewicz - Chesterfield MI.  Education Major and will be pursuing teaching in elementary or special education. 
Natalee Kunse - Clare MI.  Pre-Physician Assistant Professional track and will be going to PA grad school.
Rachel Stewart - Pekin IN.  Will be attending grad school in Doctor of Occupational Therapy program.
Kelsey Taylor - Louisville KY.  Will be attending grad school to get her master's degree and will work in marketing in either Health Care or Athletics.
Kayla Wildman - Rockford MI.  Will be attending grad school at GVSU's Doctor of Physical Therapy program.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on February 13, 2022, 03:21:10 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 13, 2022, 02:39:12 PM
Trine with a senior day win over Calvin yesterday 65-47 before 1030 at the MTI Center.  Trine with an impressive 1st half, defense was locked in, our offense was very efficient, and we shot lights out from 3-point line.  We went into the locker room with a 44-21 lead.  In the second half Calvin played much better, their defensive pressure ratcheted up a notch, and we may have lost some focus too after the big start.  We only shot 5-25 in the second half.  If Albion/Calvin played in any other league they'd get more national attention as they both have solid programs.  I've always been a big Gabby Timmer fan and it was good to see her play well yesterday.  Anytime we drove into the lane she was there either to block or alter our shots, especially in the second half.  For Trine it was great to see a couple of our injured gals make it back onto the court.  Kaylee Argyle had been out since early December but has been cleared to play and got into both of the games this week.  This is huge as she is a great leader.  She started yesterday and scored 7 points and had 5 rebounds.  I'm not sure if there is a better rebounding 5'3" player around.  Natalee Kunse, although not at 100%, got in for 3 minutes for senior day and was happy to see her score on a rebound bucket in the 1st half.

Congratulations Seniors!  This class will go down as the winningest in Tri-State/Trine history.  They have a record of 83-14 over their 4 years so far.  7 of those losses have come to Hope, so 7 losses in 4 years to anyone besides Hope is pretty impressive.  They did not lose to any other conference team in those 4 years.  Here is a little bio about each on their future plans:

Kaylee Argyle - Freeland MI.  Accounting Major and will be moving to Indianapolis after graduation and work for an accounting firm.
Tara Bieniewicz - Chesterfield MI.  Education Major and will be pursuing teaching in elementary or special education. 
Natalee Kunse - Clare MI.  Pre-Physician Assistant Professional track and will be going to PA grad school.
Rachel Stewart - Pekin IN.  Will be attending grad school in Doctor of Occupational Therapy program.
Kelsey Taylor - Louisville KY.  Will be attending grad school to get her master's degree and will work in marketing in either Health Care or Athletics.
Kayla Wildman - Rockford MI.  Will be attending grad school at GVSU's Doctor of Physical Therapy program.


Congrats to the Trine seniors and thanks TUAngola for the bios.  That's an impressive group of young ladies and a great example of what D3 is all about!
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 15, 2022, 09:52:27 AM
For some reason Hope and Trine flip-flopped in the recent D3Hoops.com poll. Hope gained 3 votes, Trine lost 3. I feel like Trine had the more impressive week. But it's small potatoes-both are great teams.

I watched the Christopher Newport vs. UC Santa Cruz (on a neutral court) game. CNU is strong but doesn't look like the #1 team to me.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on February 15, 2022, 11:32:01 AM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 15, 2022, 09:52:27 AM
For some reason Hope and Trine flip-flopped in the recent D3Hoops.com poll. Hope gained 3 votes, Trine lost 3. I feel like Trine had the more impressive week. But it's small potatoes-both are great teams.

I watched the Christopher Newport vs. UC Santa Cruz (on a neutral court) game. CNU is strong but doesn't look like the #1 team to me.

Agreed. I find Simpson and Whitewater "scarier" to me than CNU. As a Hope fan, no one scares me more than Trine.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on February 15, 2022, 01:10:47 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on February 15, 2022, 11:32:01 AM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 15, 2022, 09:52:27 AM
For some reason Hope and Trine flip-flopped in the recent D3Hoops.com poll. Hope gained 3 votes, Trine lost 3. I feel like Trine had the more impressive week. But it's small potatoes-both are great teams.

I watched the Christopher Newport vs. UC Santa Cruz (on a neutral court) game. CNU is strong but doesn't look like the #1 team to me.

Agreed. I find Simpson and Whitewater "scarier" to me than CNU. As a Hope fan, no one scares me more than Trine.

I agree with this.  Over the years Hope has typically handled full court pressure very well, turning the defensive pressure into quick scoring opportunities.  I think maybe because everyone they have on the floor can typically handle the ball and pass well, even the bigs.  So it's usually the fundamentally strong opponents with tenacious half court defense and balanced scoring - like Trine - that worry me most.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on February 16, 2022, 06:03:23 PM
Regional Rankings are out.  How in the world is Hope 3rd in Region 7??  ::)

Trine with wins over numbers 3, 5, 9 & 10.  The other loss they have, besides to Hope, is to UW-Eau Claire who is #3 in Region 9.

Region 7           
1   Trine   20-2   20-2
2   DePauw   20-2   20-2
3   Hope   19-1   21-1
4   John Carroll   18-3   18-3
5   Baldwin Wallace   17-3   17-3
6   Marietta   19-4   19-4
7   Oberlin   17-3   17-3
8   Otterbein   16-6   16-6
9   Calvin   16-7   16-7
10   Ohio Northern   14-7   14-7
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on February 16, 2022, 06:25:34 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 16, 2022, 06:03:23 PM
Regional Rankings are out.  How in the world is Hope 3rd in Region 7??  ::)

Trine with wins over numbers 3, 5, 9 & 10.  The other loss they have, besides to Hope, is to UW-Eau Claire who is #3 in Region 9.

Region 7           
1   Trine   20-2   20-2
2   DePauw   20-2   20-2
3   Hope   19-1   21-1
4   John Carroll   18-3   18-3
5   Baldwin Wallace   17-3   17-3
6   Marietta   19-4   19-4
7   Oberlin   17-3   17-3
8   Otterbein   16-6   16-6
9   Calvin   16-7   16-7
10   Ohio Northern   14-7   14-7

Haha, I know the math but I still can't comprehend how these turn out sometimes.  Trine ranked #1 I can see due to higher SoS.  But Hope has both a  stronger SoS and better winning % vs. in division ranked opponents (80% vs 75%) than DePauw, so that one is a real head scratcher for me.  It appears DePauw's 6-2 75% record vs division ranked opponents carries much more weigh than Hope's 4-1 80% record.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 16, 2022, 08:29:21 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 16, 2022, 06:25:34 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 16, 2022, 06:03:23 PM
Regional Rankings are out.  How in the world is Hope 3rd in Region 7??  ::)

Trine with wins over numbers 3, 5, 9 & 10.  The other loss they have, besides to Hope, is to UW-Eau Claire who is #3 in Region 9.

Region 7           
1   Trine   20-2   20-2
2   DePauw   20-2   20-2
3   Hope   19-1   21-1
4   John Carroll   18-3   18-3
5   Baldwin Wallace   17-3   17-3
6   Marietta   19-4   19-4
7   Oberlin   17-3   17-3
8   Otterbein   16-6   16-6
9   Calvin   16-7   16-7
10   Ohio Northern   14-7   14-7

Haha, I know the math but I still can't comprehend how these turn out sometimes.  Trine ranked #1 I can see due to higher SoS.  But Hope has both a  stronger SoS and better winning % vs. in division ranked opponents (80% vs 75%) than DePauw, so that one is a real head scratcher for me.  It appears DePauw's 6-2 75% record vs division ranked opponents carries much more weigh than Hope's 4-1 80% record.

It's not the regionally ranked percentage, it's results vs regionally ranked opponents.  Typically they're not to worried about the losses.  Personally, I'm not sure DePauw's 6 are more impressive than Hope's 4, but six is bigger than four, and that's likely how they broke the tie.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on February 16, 2022, 09:30:06 PM
Come to think of it, "results vs regionally ranked opponents" is quite ambiguous, isn't it?  I suppose intentionally.  6 being bigger than 4 without much worry about losses... also sounds pretty arbitrary.  It'll sort itself out, the only shame would be if it influences hosting.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 16, 2022, 10:43:12 PM
Pretty sure that Hope vs Trine in the MIAA championship (assuming we get there) will essentially be for the right to host.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on February 17, 2022, 06:55:57 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 16, 2022, 10:43:12 PM
Pretty sure that Hope vs Trine in the MIAA championship (assuming we get there) will essentially be for the right to host.

It would be a tremendous shame if both Hope and Trine don't get to host in the tournament.  If the NCAA committee can find a way for 3 NESCAC teams (Amherst, Bowdoin, Tufts) to host a few years ago then they should be able to find a way to let 2 MIAA teams host.  The NCAA owes us after the travesty of sending Trine to the Thomas More bracket back in 2019 when Trine earned the right to be a host school that year.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on February 17, 2022, 07:37:47 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 16, 2022, 08:29:21 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 16, 2022, 06:25:34 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 16, 2022, 06:03:23 PM
Regional Rankings are out.  How in the world is Hope 3rd in Region 7??  ::)

Trine with wins over numbers 3, 5, 9 & 10.  The other loss they have, besides to Hope, is to UW-Eau Claire who is #3 in Region 9.

Region 7           
1   Trine   20-2   20-2
2   DePauw   20-2   20-2
3   Hope   19-1   21-1
4   John Carroll   18-3   18-3
5   Baldwin Wallace   17-3   17-3
6   Marietta   19-4   19-4
7   Oberlin   17-3   17-3
8   Otterbein   16-6   16-6
9   Calvin   16-7   16-7
10   Ohio Northern   14-7   14-7

Haha, I know the math but I still can't comprehend how these turn out sometimes.  Trine ranked #1 I can see due to higher SoS.  But Hope has both a  stronger SoS and better winning % vs. in division ranked opponents (80% vs 75%) than DePauw, so that one is a real head scratcher for me.  It appears DePauw's 6-2 75% record vs division ranked opponents carries much more weigh than Hope's 4-1 80% record.

It's not the regionally ranked percentage, it's results vs regionally ranked opponents.  Typically they're not to worried about the losses.  Personally, I'm not sure DePauw's 6 are more impressive than Hope's 4, but six is bigger than four, and that's likely how they broke the tie.

Don't the individual games typically matter too? 4 vs. 6 alone isn't a great measure without measuring the quality of those wins. 2 of the 4 are against the #1 team and the #5 teams in the region, both arguably better wins than ANY of DePauw's six. And Hope's margin of victory in those games is jaw dropping while DePauw barely got by Oberlin, Washington, Piedmont, and Calvin.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 17, 2022, 08:30:13 AM

The women's committee tends to stick closer to the straight numbers than the men. As I said, I'd agree with you, but evidently the committee didn't.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on February 17, 2022, 08:36:16 AM
Ryan, I appreciate your perspective and the fact that you are willing to share an individual opinion vs parroting the party line.  Thanks.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 17, 2022, 08:43:23 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 17, 2022, 06:55:57 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 16, 2022, 10:43:12 PM
Pretty sure that Hope vs Trine in the MIAA championship (assuming we get there) will essentially be for the right to host.

It would be a tremendous shame if both Hope and Trine don't get to host in the tournament.  If the NCAA committee can find a way for 3 NESCAC teams (Amherst, Bowdoin, Tufts) to host a few years ago then they should be able to find a way to let 2 MIAA teams host.  The NCAA owes us after the travesty of sending Trine to the Thomas More bracket back in 2019 when Trine earned the right to be a host school that year.

Trine getting sent to the Thomas More bracket was exactly what came to mind for me as well.  I would prefer to see both schools host, in oposite portions of the bracket, but then I doubt we see that.  Might get some insigth into those possibilities later today when the committee/NCAA release their first Top 16 ranking.  This will be the top 16 nationally ranked.  One could assume that you have to be in that list to be a likely host
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on February 17, 2022, 08:48:13 PM
The NCAA committee released their top 16 rankings today:  Trine was #9 and Hope #12.   :o

So it does appear that if Trine and Hope play once again in the MIAA conference championship game, that the winner will be a host in the NCAA tournament and the other team might be S.O.L.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: pointlem on February 18, 2022, 08:57:52 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 17, 2022, 08:48:13 PM
The NCAA committee released their top 16 rankings today:  Trine was #9 and Hope #12.   :o

So it does appear that if Trine and Hope play once again in the MIAA conference championship game, that the winner will be a host in the NCAA tournament and the other team might be S.O.L.
Interesting to see how the NCAA ranking differs so sharply from essential agreement among the polls and computer power rating: https://masseyratings.com/cbw2022/ncaa-d3/ratings

I'm guessing that Hope and Trine have a weaker SOS that isn't adjusted by their margins of victory (even with starters not playing minutes to run up scores) . . . because the NCAA wisely wouldn't want to incentivize margin of victories?
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 18, 2022, 09:18:18 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 17, 2022, 08:48:13 PM
The NCAA committee released their top 16 rankings today:  Trine was #9 and Hope #12.   :o

So it does appear that if Trine and Hope play once again in the MIAA conference championship game, that the winner will be a host in the NCAA tournament and the other team might be S.O.L.

Yep - unfortunately as I predicted.  The way the NCAA is ranking these teams is a complete joke IMHO.  Not like Trine or Hope need any extra motivation, but if I were coaching either team, the NCAAs list would be posted in the lockerroom
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on February 18, 2022, 10:05:22 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 18, 2022, 09:18:18 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 17, 2022, 08:48:13 PM
The NCAA committee released their top 16 rankings today:  Trine was #9 and Hope #12.   :o

So it does appear that if Trine and Hope play once again in the MIAA conference championship game, that the winner will be a host in the NCAA tournament and the other team might be S.O.L.

Yep - unfortunately as I predicted.  The way the NCAA is ranking these teams is a complete joke IMHO.  Not like Trine or Hope need any extra motivation, but if I were coaching either team, the NCAAs list would be posted in the lockerroom

I agree, you can't tell me that there are 8 to 10 teams in the nation better than Hope or Trine.  I would have been fine with maybe a 4 or 5 or 6 ranking, but 9 and 12?  The only thing I can think of that is skewing the NCAA rankings is SOS and how 'top heavy' our conference is.  After Hope, Trine, Albion and Calvin the rest of the conference is very weak, except for Alma who I think is on the rise.  Olivet, Kzoo, St Mary's, and Adrian have been down for some time. 
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on February 18, 2022, 10:33:22 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 18, 2022, 09:18:18 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 17, 2022, 08:48:13 PM
The NCAA committee released their top 16 rankings today:  Trine was #9 and Hope #12.   :o

So it does appear that if Trine and Hope play once again in the MIAA conference championship game, that the winner will be a host in the NCAA tournament and the other team might be S.O.L.

Yep - unfortunately as I predicted.  The way the NCAA is ranking these teams is a complete joke IMHO.  Not like Trine or Hope need any extra motivation, but if I were coaching either team, the NCAAs list would be posted in the lockerroom

I just don't understand how a committee can be so wrong. For as much as we dissect and complain after the selections, for the last couple seasons, the men's committee has done a pretty phenomenal job.

But anyone who knows basketball and has actually watched the top teams in the country can see very quickly that Hope and Trine are elite teams that belong in the top 5 (personally I believe 1 and 2)... With all due respect to DePauw and the incredible program that Kris Huffman has built there and a very good defensive team, sending Hope to Greencastle for the playoffs would be a disservice to everyone involved. I firmly believe that if Hope plays DePauw this season, regardless of where the game is played, that they will win by the score of their choosing. Massey says 71-58 if it's in Neal Fieldhouse. I don't think it would be that close.

I feel the same way about Tufts, Amherst, and Scranton.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 18, 2022, 11:42:13 AM
Quote from: HOPEful on February 18, 2022, 10:33:22 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 18, 2022, 09:18:18 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 17, 2022, 08:48:13 PM
The NCAA committee released their top 16 rankings today:  Trine was #9 and Hope #12.   :o

So it does appear that if Trine and Hope play once again in the MIAA conference championship game, that the winner will be a host in the NCAA tournament and the other team might be S.O.L.

Yep - unfortunately as I predicted.  The way the NCAA is ranking these teams is a complete joke IMHO.  Not like Trine or Hope need any extra motivation, but if I were coaching either team, the NCAAs list would be posted in the lockerroom

I just don't understand how a committee can be so wrong. For as much as we dissect and complain after the selections, for the last couple seasons, the men's committee has done a pretty phenomenal job.

But anyone who knows basketball and has actually watched the top teams in the country can see very quickly that Hope and Trine are elite teams that belong in the top 5 (personally I believe 1 and 2)... With all due respect to DePauw and the incredible program that Kris Huffman has built there and a very good defensive team, sending Hope to Greencastle for the playoffs would be a disservice to everyone involved. I firmly believe that if Hope plays DePauw this season, regardless of where the game is played, that they will win by the score of their choosing. Massey says 71-58 if it's in Neal Fieldhouse. I don't think it would be that close.

I feel the same way about Tufts, Amherst, and Scranton.

It's not about watching.  It's about numbers.  The SOS for those MIAA teams aren't very strong.  Hope could play DePauw and Transy and John Carroll if they wanted to.  There's one good nonconference game on Hope's schedule and two for Trine.  I think Trine would've been quite a bit higher if they'd beaten Eau Claire instead of lost.

Hope or Trine may still end up hosting two weekend anyway.  Given their location in between the East and Midwest, they're often geographically convenient.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on February 18, 2022, 11:45:33 AM
I also don't understand why the committee is so in love with Transylvania.  They have one good win, on the road over Tufts, but other than that their schedule is pedestrian.  The HCAC is worse than the MIAA top to bottom.  After Transy, the next 2 best teams are Bluffton and Rose Hulman at 132 and 137 rating in Massey.  The MIAA has 5 teams in the top 100 in Massey.  I can live with DePauw having a decent ranking.  The NCAC has some good teams in Oberlin, Ohio Wesleyan and Wittenberg.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on February 18, 2022, 11:50:00 AM
...I take that back, I missed that Transy also has a win over a good John Carroll team., but there is no one else higher than a 122 on their schedule.  By contrast Trine has 10 wins this season over teams with a Massey rating under 100.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 18, 2022, 11:56:03 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 18, 2022, 11:50:00 AM
...I take that back, I missed that Transy also has a win over a good John Carroll team., but there is no one else higher than a 122 on their schedule.  By contrast Trine has 10 wins this season over teams with a Massey rating under 100.

The committee doesn't and isn't allowed to look at the schedule, beyond head to head, common opponents, or regionally ranked games.  They have to stick to the criteria.  The women's committee does tend to favor winning percentage over other criteria - at least more than the men do - which is why you don't see a team with more than 3 losses in their Top 16 and likely why you see Transy so high.

Hope and Transy have very similar numbers, but Transylvania is slightly ahead in both winning percentage and SOS.  They're 4-0 against RRO and Hope is 4-1.  Wins over Tufts and JCU do probably trump those over Trine and BW, if only by a little, but that gives Transy a slight lead in all three of the major categories.  It's not a hard decision to make.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 18, 2022, 12:00:11 PM
I think there are better ways to do it, but under the current criteria, Transy has a better SOS than Trine, Hope, DePauw. Throw in undefeated overall and vs RRO and boom, you get a #3 ranking.

Even under the current criteria I think Transy should be 3 or 4 or 5 instead of 2, but you can't make a case for them to be lower than that.

The cold reality is that Hope playing only 5 RRO so far (and only 1 of them non-con) gave them a tiny margin for error. If they beat Trine, they're probably ranked #2 or #3. But with that lone loss, it buries their resume.

Teams like Tufts, Smith, Amherst, Scranton have much more margin for error since they played 12, 11, 8, 8 games vs. RRO.

If Hope had +3 RRO wins against say Oberlin, IWU, Wheaton, then they'd be right there with Simpson and Amherst around #3/#4.

Again, there are many changes I'd like to make to the criteria. I'd also like Hope to schedule some more non-con Region 7/8 games going forward.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on February 18, 2022, 12:01:55 PM
Quote: "There's one good nonconference game on Hope's schedule and two for Trine.  I think Trine would've been quite a bit higher if they'd beaten Eau Claire instead of lost."

I disagree with Trine's assessment of their nonconference schedule.  Yes, losing to UW-Eau Claire hurts the 'eye test' some, but this was on a back-to-back road trip where Trine beat a pretty decent UW-Stout team the night before losing to Eau Claire.  Trine also has non-conference wins over Baldwin Wallace and Ohio Northern.  They also beat PSU-Behrend, who although doesn't have a good Massey rating, is 19-4 on the season.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 18, 2022, 12:06:04 PM
Quote from: pointlem on February 18, 2022, 08:57:52 AM
I'm guessing that Hope and Trine have a weaker SOS that isn't adjusted by their margins of victory.

SOS formula is here:
"• Division III strength-of-schedule (SOS).
- Opponents' Average Winning Percentage (OWP) (weighted 2/3).
- Opponents' Opponents' Average Winning Percentage (OOWP) (weighted 1/3)."

https://www.d3hoops.com/interactive/faq/ncaatournament

Margin of victory is not a factor. Neither is location of the game.

Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 18, 2022, 12:07:36 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 18, 2022, 11:42:13 AM
Hope could play DePauw and Transy and John Carroll if they wanted to. 

You sure about that?  I know that scheduling has not exactly been easy for Hope.  It's not only Hope that has to want those games (not saying the teams you mentioned are avoiding Hope) but it does take two to tango
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 18, 2022, 12:11:49 PM
Yeah scheduling is an area I know nothing about.

In a perfect world Hope plays in 3 4-team non con tournaments and gets to face 2 CCIW, 2 HCAC, and 2 OAC opponents every year.

Perhaps the reality of that isn't there.

But even if that's the reality, you can't not reward a team that DOES play a strong non con slate. You just get more information.

This is the complaint of SCIAC and NWC teams right? Weak non con because of geography and little avenue to change that?
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 18, 2022, 12:12:30 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 18, 2022, 12:07:36 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 18, 2022, 11:42:13 AM
Hope could play DePauw and Transy and John Carroll if they wanted to. 

You sure about that?  I know that scheduling has not exactly been easy for Hope.  It's not only Hope that has to want those games (not saying the teams you mentioned are avoiding Hope) but it does take two to tango

True.  I just meant those as standins for better teams.  There may be individual opponents who won't want to play - and COVID certainly hampered scheduling this year, but generally, Hope can get a better non-con slate than they have this year.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 18, 2022, 12:22:40 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 18, 2022, 12:12:30 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 18, 2022, 12:07:36 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 18, 2022, 11:42:13 AM
Hope could play DePauw and Transy and John Carroll if they wanted to. 

You sure about that?  I know that scheduling has not exactly been easy for Hope.  It's not only Hope that has to want those games (not saying the teams you mentioned are avoiding Hope) but it does take two to tango

True.  I just meant those as standins for better teams.  There may be individual opponents who won't want to play - and COVID certainly hampered scheduling this year, but generally, Hope can get a better non-con slate than they have this year.

Agreed - COVID and teams that did or didn't have a season last year all made scheduling a nightmare this year.  I also believe that with the updated regions and the large increase in the number of ranked teams across the nation, there may be some adjustments to scheduling.  I'm also curious how things might look if we were back at the "normal" number of ranked teams (fully understanding that might mean Calvin is not ranked thereby impacting Hope and Trine)
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on February 18, 2022, 12:32:09 PM
Rankings/Schmankings...I'm just glad there will BE a tournament this year.  Can't wait for the dance to begin.   ;D
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 18, 2022, 12:38:55 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 18, 2022, 12:32:09 PM
Rankings/Schmankings...I'm just glad there will BE a tournament this year.  Can't wait for the dance to begin.   ;D

YES!!!!!! Ultimately the teams will get to decide it all!!!!
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on February 18, 2022, 08:33:45 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 18, 2022, 12:38:55 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 18, 2022, 12:32:09 PM
Rankings/Schmankings...I'm just glad there will BE a tournament this year.  Can't wait for the dance to begin.   ;D

YES!!!!!! Ultimately the teams will get to decide it all!!!!

Agreed. But I'd still prefer a couple of those games to be in Holland and not Greencastle :)
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on February 19, 2022, 10:43:55 AM
Quote from: HOPEful on February 18, 2022, 08:33:45 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 18, 2022, 12:38:55 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 18, 2022, 12:32:09 PM
Rankings/Schmankings...I'm just glad there will BE a tournament this year.  Can't wait for the dance to begin.   ;D
YES!!!!!! Ultimately the teams will get to decide it all!!!!
Agreed. But I'd still prefer a couple of those games to be in Holland and not Greencastle :)

Then again, if we have to go on the road, I'll take Greencastle over Indianola, Whitewater, or Angola.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on February 19, 2022, 05:00:41 PM
Hope overwhelms Kalamazoo 94-23, everyone on the roster played from 12-18 minutes. Kzoo had a tough time shooting while Hope hit 50% from the field and made 14 threes, going 14-28.  However another unremarkable showing from the charity stripe where they went 14-26; they're going to need those points one day.  Not sure but I would have to think this is near a Dutch record for fewest point allowed in a game.

Most notable stat line was All American Kenedy Schoonveld scoring 18 while going 7-7 from the field including 2-2 from beyond the arc, 2-2 FTs, with 4 rebs, 4 dimes, 2 steals, and no TOs - in just 14 minutes of playing time!
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Erm Schmigget on February 19, 2022, 05:11:03 PM
Any info on why Savannah Feenstra didn't play?  I thought I saw her on crutches during pre-game warm-ups.   :-\
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: pointlem on February 19, 2022, 07:18:02 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on February 19, 2022, 05:11:03 PM
Any info on why Savannah Feenstra didn't play?  I thought I saw her on crutches during pre-game warm-ups.   :-\
I hope--both for Savannah's sake and her team's--that she is not seriously injured. She has been a terrific contributor this year (to me, the biggest surprise, averaging more than 9 points and 5 rebounds off the bench--more than doubling her last year's average). Moreover, her guard-like agility is a great asset--both offensively and defensively--for a 6' 1" post-sized player.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on February 20, 2022, 12:10:41 PM
MIAA Women's Basketball Tournament pairings are set.  Trine with 1 seed via tie breaker of winning the head to head matchup with Hope in the second half of the season.  Likewise for Calvin getting the tie breaking 3 seed over Albion by virtue of their win over Albion yesterday. 

Wednesday, February 23 - Quarterfinals

No. 8 Kalamazoo at No. 1 Trine
No. 7 Saint Mary's at No. 2 Hope
No. 6 Adrian at No. 3 Calvin
No. 5 Alma at No. 4 Albion

Semifinals will be played Friday, February 25 with the Final on Saturday, February 26.  Remaining highest seeded teams after each round will serve as the host for the semifinals and final.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 21, 2022, 08:36:57 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 20, 2022, 12:10:41 PM
MIAA Women's Basketball Tournament pairings are set.  Trine with 1 seed via tie breaker of winning the head to head matchup with Hope in the second half of the season.  Likewise for Calvin getting the tie breaking 3 seed over Albion by virtue of their win over Albion yesterday. 

Wednesday, February 23 - Quarterfinals

No. 8 Kalamazoo at No. 1 Trine
No. 7 Saint Mary's at No. 2 Hope
No. 6 Adrian at No. 3 Calvin
No. 5 Alma at No. 4 Albion

Semifinals will be played Friday, February 25 with the Final on Saturday, February 26.  Remaining highest seeded teams after each round will serve as the host for the semifinals and final.

Interesting that it turns out Trine gets the #1 seed and the advantage of home court (although both Hope/Trine contests this year were won by the visisting team), but Hope gets an advantage from being #2 - another potential game against Calvin (who is regionally ranked).  Since regional rankings rely (in part) on your results versus other RRO (Regionally Ranked Opponents), Hope getting that extra result is big when it comes to the order the teams end up ranked (which determines seeding and hosting). Silver lining perhaps
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on February 21, 2022, 08:48:50 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 21, 2022, 08:36:57 AM
Interesting that it turns out Trine gets the #1 seed and the advantage of home court (although both Hope/Trine contests this year were won by the visisting team), but Hope gets an advantage from being #2 - another potential game against Calvin (who is regionally ranked).  Since regional rankings rely (in part) on your results versus other RRO (Regionally Ranked Opponents), Hope getting that extra result is big when it comes to the order the teams end up ranked (which determines seeding and hosting). Silver lining perhaps

That was my first thought too when I saw the schedule... that we get to play Calvin and add another win against a RRO potentially to the resume.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 23, 2022, 09:43:05 AM
Just got email that Hope has an updated spectator policy effective today. Masks are now optional.  Concessions will be open again starting on Friday Feb 25
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: sac on February 23, 2022, 09:13:29 PM
Alma 74 Albion 70  F/OT

Hope v Calvin will tip at 5:30
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: pointlem on February 23, 2022, 09:39:09 PM
As expected, Hope easily defeats St. Mary's 90 to 41. Alas, Savannah Feenstra, Hope's #3 scorer and #2 rebounder, was on crutches, with what seemed to be a knee injury. I have no idea if her season is over, but it didn't look like she will be playing soon.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 23, 2022, 10:43:50 PM
" Hope was without third-leading scorer Savannah Feenstra (9.2 points per game) who is out for the season with a leg injury."
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on February 24, 2022, 07:02:04 AM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 23, 2022, 10:43:50 PM
" Hope was without third-leading scorer Savannah Feenstra (9.2 points per game) who is out for the season with a leg injury."

Wow, that's unfortunate for Ms. Feenstra and a blow to Hope.  Good thing Hope is deep nonetheless she has been an outstanding performer this year; it always hurts to lose someone of that caliber and versatility.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on February 24, 2022, 08:11:34 AM
Team A - Record = 22-2; .540 SoS; 5-2 v. RROs
Team B - Record = 22-2; .544 SoS; 5-2 v. RROs

Team A is DePauw. Team B is Trine. Can someone explain how in the world the committee has DePauw 1 and Trine 2 in Region 7?
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 24, 2022, 08:35:46 AM
Quote from: HOPEful on February 24, 2022, 08:11:34 AM
Team A - Record = 22-2; .540 SoS; 5-2 v. RROs
Team B - Record = 22-2; .544 SoS; 5-2 v. RROs

Team A is DePauw. Team B is Trine. Can someone explain how in the world the committee has DePauw 1 and Trine 2 in Region 7?

My only thought is they considered them even and went to NCSOS. I don't have the data sheets in front of me, but I'd guess DePauw has an advantage there.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 24, 2022, 09:07:31 AM
Quote from: sac on February 23, 2022, 09:13:29 PM
Alma 74 Albion 70  F/OT

Hope v Calvin will tip at 5:30

Alma winning that game is the first win this season by a 5th-9th place MIAA team over one of the top 4.  Prior to that, Alma/Kalamazoo/St Marys/Adrian/Olivet were a combined 0-40 in the league this year vs Hope/Trine/Calvin/Albion.  Pretty impressive OT win for the Scots.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 24, 2022, 09:39:12 AM
All MIAA awards were announced last night (link below).  Kenedy Schoonveld is the MVP for the 3rd year in a row.  She also is a first team honoree for a 5th time!.  Olivia Voskuil is the defensive player of the year for the 4th year in a row.

https://www.miaa.org/sports/wbkb/2021-22/releases/AllMIAA2022
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 24, 2022, 10:00:33 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 24, 2022, 08:35:46 AM
Quote from: HOPEful on February 24, 2022, 08:11:34 AM
Team A - Record = 22-2; .540 SoS; 5-2 v. RROs
Team B - Record = 22-2; .544 SoS; 5-2 v. RROs

Team A is DePauw. Team B is Trine. Can someone explain how in the world the committee has DePauw 1 and Trine 2 in Region 7?

My only thought is they considered them even and went to NCSOS. I don't have the data sheets in front of me, but I'd guess DePauw has an advantage there.



I posted this over on the Pool C board:

Quote from: scottiedawg on February 23, 2022, 08:19:53 PM
One thing I don't get:

First Regional Rankings
Region 7
1 - Trine
2 - DePauw

Second Regional Rankings
1 - DePauw
2 - Trine

What happened in between?
Both teams 2-0
DePauw @ Ohio Wesleyan, vs. Wooster
Trine vs. St. Mary's IN, @ Adrian

Ohio Wesleyan is clearly the best win of those 4.

BUT, DePauw lost WashU as a win v RRO


DePauw losing an RRO win seems like the most significant thing to happen to either team this week. And DePauw passes Trine??


I don't get the order either. And I really don't get that the order CHANGED between the 1st and 2nd rankings.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 25, 2022, 03:41:51 PM
I keep digging into the criteria, and comparing JUST Hope and DePauw, I do not see how DePauw is ahead of Hope.

DePauw
0.920 WP
0.531 SOS
4-2 vRRO

Hope
0.957 WP
0.520 SOS
4-1 vRRO


The women's committee really places an emphassis on WP, and DePauw's SOS lead on Hope is extremely slight. AND Hope has a better record vRRO.

I think Hope should be ahead of DePauw in region.

(and I'm totally fine with Trine ahead of Hope).

Trine ahead of DePauw looks like a slam dunk to me.

So I really think this should be the current Region 7 order:
Trine
Hope
DePauw
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on February 25, 2022, 06:58:18 PM
So Hope rips regionally ranked Calvin while DePauw loses to non regionally ranked Wittenberg.  Just maybe now the committee will give Hope the nod?

Seriously, Meg Morehouse didn't put up a lot of points but what a floor general and defender!
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 25, 2022, 07:33:27 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 25, 2022, 06:58:18 PM
So Hope rips regionally ranked Calvin while DePauw loses to non regionally ranked Wittenberg.  Just maybe now the committee will give Hope the nod?

Seriously, Meg Morehouse didn't put up a lot of points but what a floor general and defender!

I'm expecting that DePauw result could lead to both Hope and Trine hosting - at least it would appear that is a more likely possibility. Certainly couldn't think of two better venues or two more deserving teams.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Erm Schmigget on February 25, 2022, 07:46:16 PM
Wittenberg 55
DePauw 52

Calvin 42
Hope 68

Alma 23
Trine 38 (halftime)

This HAS to move DePauw out of first.  The question is, with Hope and Trine meeting in the MIAA final tomorrow, as we might assume, will the committee rank DePauw second?  They're just that unpredictable/inexplicable.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 25, 2022, 08:36:17 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on February 25, 2022, 07:46:16 PM
Wittenberg 55
DePauw 52

Calvin 42
Hope 68

Alma 23
Trine 38 (halftime)

This HAS to move DePauw out of first.  The question is, with Hope and Trine meeting in the MIAA final tomorrow, as we might assume, will the committee rank DePauw second?  They're just that unpredictable/inexplicable.

DePauw lost to an unranked team. Hope and Trine are both picking up a win tonight plus Hope picked up a RRO tonight. Tomorrow they both get another RRO and that should separate them both significantly from the Tigers.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 25, 2022, 08:50:29 PM
I agree that between tonight and whatever happens tomorrow both Hope and Trine will have significantly enhanced their resumes.

BUT, Witt being unranked doesn't really matter. They're 17-7 (not sure if that's ALL against D3 opponents, but probably close), and so, DePauw's SOS will actually rise.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Erm Schmigget on February 25, 2022, 09:08:00 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 25, 2022, 08:36:17 PM
Quote from: Erm Schmigget on February 25, 2022, 07:46:16 PM
Wittenberg 55
DePauw 52

Calvin 42
Hope 68

Alma 23
Trine 38 (halftime)

This HAS to move DePauw out of first.  The question is, with Hope and Trine meeting in the MIAA final tomorrow, as we might assume, will the committee rank DePauw second?  They're just that unpredictable/inexplicable.

DePauw lost to an unranked team. Hope and Trine are both picking up a win tonight plus Hope picked up a RRO tonight. Tomorrow they both get another RRO and that should separate them both significantly from the Tigers.
That's the way I read it.  But like scottiedawg, I read the numbers one way and the committee ranks another.  Let's just hope they don't drop Calvin off the list and take those 3 RROs from Hope.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 25, 2022, 09:17:21 PM
The regional rankings from last week "count" as well. So no teams can lose RROs at this point. They can only gain them if a team moves into the regional rankings.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on February 25, 2022, 09:22:34 PM
Trine with a win over a much improved Alma squad tonight 75-62.  Trine jumped out to a 31-9 lead with a few minutes left in the second quarter.  Our defense was suffocating, and we hit enough shots to stretch out that lead, but then it was like a light switch turned on for Alma.  Suddenly they were getting free for some open looks, and they hit 4 3pointers right before half to get back in the game and you could tell that their confidence grew that they could hang with us.  From there on out it was a battle.  I believe Alma at one point got the lead down to 7 or 8 early in the 3rd quarter then we hit a few shots to get it back to 15 going into the 4th quarter.  The teams played pretty much evenly in the 4th.

Taylor Sas for Alma is going to be a star in this league, she can shoot the ball and also get to the hoop as well.  Stasha Warchock also played very well.  For Trine Tara Bieniewicz had a nice game, for a while it was a back and forth 3-point shooting contest between Sas and Bieniewicz.  Sam Underhill also had a good game tonight.  For Alma they suffered an injury near the end of the game as it appears Maddie Robbins injured her knee on a drive to the basket.  I'm hoping it isn't serious for the young lady. 

So tomorrow you have Hope at Trine for the conference crown.  From their box score with Calvin it looks Hope got off to a great start and kind of held serve the rest of the way.  We're going to have to play much better for 4 quarters to have any chance of beating Hope.  We missed numerous layups tonight and need to be better at the free throw line.  Alma had us rattled and might have shaken our confidence some.  We'll need to get that mojo back to make it a game tomorrow. 
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 25, 2022, 09:24:05 PM
Though with teams losing around them in Region 7, and beating Oberlin tonight, I could see Ohio Wesleyan move into the final regional rankings. That would give DePauw an additional 2 wins v RRO. Which would be a big deal. Could keep them #2 in the region.

(we all see how ridiculous RROs are right? teams moving from one above the line down, or one below the line up, have massive consequences, on teams whose results did not change).
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 25, 2022, 10:10:09 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 25, 2022, 09:17:21 PM
The regional rankings from last week "count" as well. So no teams can lose RROs at this point. They can only gain them if a team moves into the regional rankings.

My point is that DePauw's loss hurts their WP, and that Hope gets 2 additional RRO and Trine gets 1. As close as they all are that will mean something
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 25, 2022, 10:11:57 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 25, 2022, 10:10:09 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 25, 2022, 09:17:21 PM
The regional rankings from last week "count" as well. So no teams can lose RROs at this point. They can only gain them if a team moves into the regional rankings.

My point is that DePauw's loss hurts their WP, and that Hope gets 2 additional RRO and Trine gets 1. As close as they all are that will mean something

I sure hope you're right! ALLLLLL logic would point to you being right.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 25, 2022, 10:15:16 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 25, 2022, 10:11:57 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 25, 2022, 10:10:09 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 25, 2022, 09:17:21 PM
The regional rankings from last week "count" as well. So no teams can lose RROs at this point. They can only gain them if a team moves into the regional rankings.

My point is that DePauw's loss hurts their WP, and that Hope gets 2 additional RRO and Trine gets 1. As close as they all are that will mean something

I sure hope you're right! ALLLLLL logic would point to you being right.

The other thing that I think should help both Hope and Trine is WP. As you have said before, it appears the committee places more importance on that than anything. DePauw going 0-1 while Hope and Trine are either 2-0 or 1-1.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 25, 2022, 10:25:56 PM
Oh agreed but if Trine loses tomorrow their WP is basically even (DePauw 0.88000 , Trine 0.88461). SOS is gonna be razor close. Both would be 5-2 v RRO.

If DePauw adds 2 wins v RRO if OWU sneaks into the final Reg 7 rankings, i think DePauw sticks at #2.

Even if they don't, I feel like whatever prompted the committee to rank DePauw ahead of Trine last week, would still be in play (I have no idea what it might be??).

Unfortunately for Trine, beating Albion (non RRO) and (if) losing to Hope (RRO loss)--does very little for their resume.

Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Erm Schmigget on February 25, 2022, 10:26:33 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 25, 2022, 09:17:21 PM
The regional rankings from last week "count" as well. So no teams can lose RROs at this point. They can only gain them if a team moves into the regional rankings.
Thanks for clarifying that.  I thought I read in another comment earlier that someone else had lost an RRO due to a team falling off the list.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 25, 2022, 10:33:15 PM
I might've misled you when I posted "DePauw losing an RRO win seems like the most significant thing to happen to either team this week."

That was referring to last week's game, so before the Second Regional Rankings were published.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on February 25, 2022, 11:10:23 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 25, 2022, 09:24:05 PM
(we all see how ridiculous RROs are right? teams moving from one above the line down, or one below the line up, have massive consequences, on teams whose results did not change).

THIS! Everyone needs to be shouting this from the mountaintops! RROs are a ridiculously dumb and arbitrary way to assess teams.  Lets draw an arbitrary line in the sand and every team above this line counts extra. Never mind that Hope beat Calvin a combined 240 to 136 in their 3 meetings and DePauw barely got by them. It's just 3 wins over an RRO vs 1. And that 1 RRO counts the same for DePauw as Hope's win against Trine. Makes no sense.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: sac on February 26, 2022, 12:17:51 AM
I assume everyone saw DePauw lost their NCAC semi-final game to Wittenberg, a team they previously had beaten by 26 but only had to play once this year.

Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on February 26, 2022, 10:36:13 AM
For those Hope fans coming down to Angola this evening I would recommend that you purchase your tickets thru the MIAA ticket portal.  Even though there is an extra service fee to purchase tickets this way, the process is so much faster than paying cash at the door in that you still need to give them your phone number to send a link to your phone to scan you in.  I've tried both ways and purchasing online is faster, gets you in the door quickly as there are separate ticket lines for those paying with cash and for those who have the tickets uploaded to their phone.

Also, parking may be tricky as the MIAA indoor track & field championships are being held at the ARC next door to the MTI Center today.  I think the last event is over around 6:30 but it will take time for parking spots to open up.  It might be ok but just want to warn those coming to give yourself some extra time just in case you have to look around for parking. :)
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: pointlem on February 26, 2022, 11:58:24 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 26, 2022, 10:36:13 AM
For those Hope fans coming down to Angola this evening I would recommend that you purchase your tickets thru the MIAA ticket portal.  Even though there is an extra service fee to purchase tickets this way, the process is so much faster than paying cash at the door in that you still need to give them your phone number to send a link to your phone to scan you in.  I've tried both ways and purchasing online is faster, gets you in the door quickly as there are separate ticket lines for those paying with cash and for those who have the tickets uploaded to their phone.

Also, parking may be tricky as the MIAA indoor track & field championships are being held at the ARC next door to the MTI Center today.  I think the last event is over around 6:30 but it will take time for parking spots to open up.  It might be ok but just want to warn those coming to give yourself some extra time just in case you have to look around for parking. :)
TUAngola . . . or perhaps save the travel and just trust Massey matchup? (How I wish.)
https://masseyratings.com/game.php?s0=379388&oid0=3329&h=-1&s1=379388&oid1=8020 . . . although Massey hasn't computed the season-ending injury loss of Hope's 2nd leading rebounder and 3rd leading scorer, Samantha Feenstra, which perhaps makes it a toss-up.

Regardless, we'll look forward to one of your excellent post-game reports.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on February 26, 2022, 12:11:53 PM
There's every indication of another hard fought, close game coming up tonight in Angola.  Hope won by 9 there earlier in the year; Trine won by 8 in Holland.  Seems to me Trine's been a little more consistent in the 2nd half of the season but not sure that means much.  You could parse all the stats from the two games this year but at the risk of oversimplifying, for these evenly matched teams it seems it came down to whoever put the ball in the hole at a better % won the game.  Sometimes its an easy game :)
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 26, 2022, 08:04:13 PM
Wagner has committed 11 turnovers in 39 minutes against Hope this year.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 26, 2022, 08:33:10 PM
Muller's been tremendous tonight. Forget the missed FTs, she's kept Hope in this.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: NW Hope Fan on February 26, 2022, 08:51:55 PM
Go Hope!!!!
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 26, 2022, 09:15:44 PM
I hope:

* Hope and Trine end up 1, 2 in the final Region 7 rankings
* Both host opening weekend and potentially longer
* Opposite sides of the bracket

I sure hope the committee also looks at what the specific RRO losses were, when "seeding" the very top teams. Cause losing to Hope and Trine is less bad than losing to Rochester, Bates, Eau Claire, UCSC, Ithaca, Stevens, Messiah, Piedment (Wittenberg!!), ETBU, Texas-Dallas.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: NW Hope Fan on February 26, 2022, 09:26:56 PM
* OPPOSITE SIDES!!!!
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 26, 2022, 09:29:48 PM
Though I think Hope has played themselves into about the #6 overall "seed", and Trine maybe overall #8-9? Not sure the committee cares much about putting teams outside the top 4 or so on separate sides of the bracket. Too many other logisitical factors in play.

Frankly I wouldn't be shocked if Hope/Trine end up in the same quadrant.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: pointlem on February 26, 2022, 09:41:09 PM
Hope fans will definitely be rooting for much-respected Trine . . . 'till we meet again (and, yes, why not atop opposite brackets?).

And kudos to Trine Athletics and their excellent TV production team for extending the online broadcast through the Hope net cutting. A class and generous act.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on February 26, 2022, 10:09:42 PM
Another in a series of hotly contested games between Hope and Trine goes to Hope tonight 54-50.  If there are any better defensive teams in the country than Hope or Trine I'd like to know.  It was just tough sledding for either offense, but especially for Trine.  Hope held us to 30% shooting for the game and you're not going to win the big games with that low of a number.  Hope got off to a great start behind the efforts of Ella McKinney.  She was fantastic at getting to the rim but also hit some big 3 pointers too.  When Trine put the clamps down on Hope in the 2nd quarter she put the team on her back and led them at the half with 13 big points.  Hope leads 31-25 at half.  Trine came out really strong in the 3rd quarter, especially defensively limiting Hope to 6 points.  Other than a couple early 3s by Tara and one by Makayla we went stagnant offensively the second part of the 3rd quarter.  Way too many empty possessions.  But we made it a 1 point game going into the 4th quarter, 37-36.  Now for some reason in the 4th the officials decided they were going to change the way they were calling the game up to that point.  The fouls seemed few and far between in the first 3 quarters with neither team reaching the bonus.  But in the 4th instead of letting the girls play like they had been the first 3 quarters it was a foul fest in the 4th.  Really questionable fouls on both sides.  Fortunately Hope missed enough free throws to let Trine hang around.  It was still anyone's game until someone for Hope who had been real quiet up to this point sank a couple daggers from deep...Kasey DeSmit.  With Trine up 45-44 Ella McKinney fought off a double team and found a wide open DeSmit who buried the shot to put Hope up 47-45.  Then she hit another one a little over a minute later to put Hope up 52-46.  We got a hoop and a couple free throws to cut the lead to 2 with 37 seconds to play.  Then on Hope's possession we made a bad foul when I know for certain Coach Rang wanted us to play D for 30 seconds.  Muller hit both FTs and then Voskuil swatted away a 3 pt attempt by Makayla...and that was the game.

It was a fun game to watch, glad the students showed out and got into it.  These are the types of games you're going to have in the NCAA tournament so was a little taste of what's to come.  I am hoping that the NCAA will reward Trine with first round games at home, they deserve it, but I am not holding my breath.  We'll play wherever they put us and take each one game by game.     
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 26, 2022, 10:17:39 PM
Massey has the best defenses as:
1. Trine
2. Amherst
3. Oshkosh
4. Hope

and while I haven't watched enough Oshkosh to confirm, the other three certainly are elite defensively.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on February 26, 2022, 10:28:41 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 26, 2022, 08:04:13 PM
Wagner has committed 11 turnovers in 39 minutes against Hope this year.

...yeah...but she's a Freshman who had to play more minutes than anticipated with the early season injury to Kaylee Argyle.  Honestly I think she's played tremendous.  If the MIAA gave out 'Freshman of the Year' award she would have won it hands down.

Fun fact, basketball isn't Sidney's first love, it's motocross.  You know a girl's gotta be tough to ride a dirt bike.  She is an accomplished racer who has given up motocross...for now anyway...to focus on college and basketball.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 26, 2022, 10:58:32 PM
For sure. I brought her up because I've been impressed by her—Hope just ate her up this year.  There are other ball handlers around the MIAA who put up 6-8 TOS a game against Hope—but they were clearly outclassed. Wagner is a good example of how Hope can break down a good ball handler.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 27, 2022, 05:39:36 PM
I think Trine ends up below DePauw in the final regional rankings, which means DePauw gets to the table first. That won't matter for Pool C purposes, but could matter for hosting purposes.

I do think there's a scenario where BW is 3rd in the region and Trine is 4th. Not really sure which way the committee goes there.

I don't see a way Hope isn't 1st in Region 7.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 28, 2022, 02:57:15 PM
Hope has been given a pretty soft opening pod. La Roche, Marietta, Wittenberg.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 28, 2022, 03:09:36 PM
Trine is not hosting. Headed to John Carroll. Bummed for Trine.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 28, 2022, 03:10:50 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 28, 2022, 03:09:36 PM
Trine is not hosting. Headed to John Carroll. Bummed for Trine.

Trine is hosting - you saw that incorrectly.  First team listed is not necessarily the host (on the live show it's the * that indicates the host)

And Hope & Trine are in separate quandrants.  I'm very pleased for both teams.   Would appear that Hope and Trine went 1-2 in the final regional rankings
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on February 28, 2022, 03:12:36 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 28, 2022, 03:09:36 PM
Trine is not hosting. Headed to John Carroll. Bummed for Trine.

That's really unfortunate, they're such a strong team I think they deserve it.  However I kind of figured the MIAA championship game might also be for a hosting slot.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 28, 2022, 03:13:01 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 28, 2022, 03:10:50 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 28, 2022, 03:09:36 PM
Trine is not hosting. Headed to John Carroll. Bummed for Trine.

Trine is hosting - you saw that incorrectly.  First team listed is not necessarily the host (on the live show it's the * that indicates the host)

And Hope & Trine are in separate quandrants.  I'm very pleased for both teams

ah, i totally assumed first team was the host. My bad.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on February 28, 2022, 03:14:02 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 28, 2022, 03:13:01 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 28, 2022, 03:10:50 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 28, 2022, 03:09:36 PM
Trine is not hosting. Headed to John Carroll. Bummed for Trine.

Trine is hosting - you saw that incorrectly.  First team listed is not necessarily the host (on the live show it's the * that indicates the host)

And Hope & Trine are in separate quandrants.  I'm very pleased for both teams

ah, i totally assumed first team was the host. My bad.

Great news!
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 28, 2022, 03:17:05 PM
I think both teams got favorable draws, and of course have the home court advanatage this weekend.  Looks to me like Hope is setup to host both weekends if they keep winning, while the Trine quadrant top team is likely Transylvania??
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 28, 2022, 03:17:51 PM
As was pointed out to me, Hope's quadrant is kinda weird. Who hosts if chalk holds serve and Hope, EC, NYU, Scranton make it through? Regardless of host there's a flight there right?
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 28, 2022, 03:19:36 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 28, 2022, 03:17:51 PM
As was pointed out to me, Hope's quadrant is kinda weird. Who hosts if chalk holds serve and Hope, EC, NYU, Scranton make it through? Regardless of host there's a flight there right?

It'll be Hope.  Eau Claire can drive there, so only two flights.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 28, 2022, 03:24:41 PM
Scranton can drive to NYU. You think Hope is above NYU "seeding-wise" ? Basically even WP and NYU has better SOS and RRO record.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 28, 2022, 03:35:10 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 28, 2022, 03:17:51 PM
As was pointed out to me, Hope's quadrant is kinda weird. Who hosts if chalk holds serve and Hope, EC, NYU, Scranton make it through? Regardless of host there's a flight there right?

Two flights no matter who hosts. 

Scranton to NYU is 124 miles
UWEC to Hope is 471 miles

All the others are over 600 miles and require flights.

Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 28, 2022, 05:03:50 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 28, 2022, 03:24:41 PM
Scranton can drive to NYU. You think Hope is above NYU "seeding-wise" ? Basically even WP and NYU has better SOS and RRO record.

I think if you're on the top line, you're the top seed.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: pointlem on February 28, 2022, 05:04:41 PM
Knocking on wood . . . it's interesting that this season's 4th Hope v. Trine game ( ;D) is scheduled for Thursday, March 17th (i.e., the tournament semi on Thursday, two days before the Saturday championship) . . . meaning another day for student-athletes to be away from classes, and surely fewer fans willing to commit the extra day of travel with a dead day in between. Not a wise NCAA decision?
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on February 28, 2022, 06:00:25 PM
Stuck at work today so wasn't able to get to the bracket until I got home.  YEA FOR TRINE!! I'm glad the NCAA committee found a way for them to host.  I studied the draw...it looks to be quite fair.  Except for DePauw who was really penalized for losing to Wittenberg, the Tigers not only lost the chance to host, now they have to go to UW Whitewater in a possible round of 32 game, poor Tigers.  I know Hope and Trine are on the same side so we would meet in the national semifinals IF they both get there.  ;D  Trine with a stiff second round opponent in John Caroll if both teams win their first-round game.  JCU is very talented and is experienced with mostly seniors and graduate students in their rotation along with a couple juniors.  Olivia Nagy in the middle is a game changer.  Their talented wing player Nicole Heffington didn't play in the OAC championship game against Baldwin Wallace as per their website she was in a walking boot.  It could be just precautionary knowing win or lose they were shoo-ins to make the NCAA tournament.  I expect she'll be playing this weekend.  They don't appear to go as deep as Trine, but if the girls are used to the minutes then it probably won't matter.  JCU did play Albion early in the season and won by 9.  There are also common opponents in Baldwin Wallace and Ohio Northern.

I do like Hope's draw too.  Appears they are the #3 overall seed so would more than likely host the Sweet 16 too if they win this weekend.  Both Trine and Hope are on the opposite side of Christopher Newport and Simpson who I think are 2 of the best teams.  But you just have to focus one game at a time to get to the next game.

Good luck to both Trine and Hope.  I'll be rooting for both, except when they play each other in the Final Four.  :P
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on February 28, 2022, 08:11:39 PM
Every MIAA fan has to be excited by this bracket. Hope and Trine are not only hosting, but are on the opposite side of the bracket from Simpson, Whitewater, Amherst, and CNU.

Trine v Hope in the Final Four feels like a very real possibility.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: AlwaysHope on February 28, 2022, 08:13:23 PM
I am trying to plan my weekend around another event.  Assuming the women win on Friday, what time is the game on Sat. at the DeVos?
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: hope81 on March 01, 2022, 07:12:05 AM
The scorers' table has been told 7pm Saturday.  I assume that is correct.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 01, 2022, 08:51:47 AM
Was reviewing the last regional rankings released last night.  Here is how Region 7 stacked up:

1   Hope   24-1   26-1
2   Trine   24-3   24-3
3   DePauw   23-3   23-3
4   John Carroll   22-4   22-4
5   Baldwin Wallace   21-4   21-4
6   Marietta   21-5   21-5
7   Calvin   19-8   19-8
8   Ohio Wesleyan   21-7   21-7
9   Otterbein   18-7   18-7
10   Washington & Jefferson   23-4   23-4

To me the biggest surprise was realizing that Calvin was "at the table" to be selected as a pool C as soon as Marietta was chosen. 
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on March 01, 2022, 09:38:19 AM
I really expected OWU to be ahead of Calvin with the way the committee leans on WP. Calvin's resume looks so much worse because of that loss total--and the fact that the RACs have no criteria for "good losses."  Both Calvin and OWU played tremendously all year, but both just got bludgeoned by Hope/Trine & JCU/BW.

I'm VERY glad they dropped DePauw from 1 to 3. i think that's the right move.

I get why, but I was also surprised to see JCU stay ahead of BW. I figured they were close in the 2nd regional rankings, and then BW beat JCU in the conference tournament. Looks like there was quite the gap between them in the 2nd regional rankings.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 01, 2022, 10:39:55 AM
Quote from: scottiedawg on March 01, 2022, 09:38:19 AM
I really expected OWU to be ahead of Calvin with the way the committee leans on WP. Calvin's resume looks so much worse because of that loss total--and the fact that the RACs have no criteria for "good losses."  Both Calvin and OWU played tremendously all year, but both just got bludgeoned by Hope/Trine & JCU/BW.

I'm VERY glad they dropped DePauw from 1 to 3. i think that's the right move.

I get why, but I was also surprised to see JCU stay ahead of BW. I figured they were close in the 2nd regional rankings, and then BW beat JCU in the conference tournament. Looks like there was quite the gap between them in the 2nd regional rankings.

Calvin certainly suffered from Hope/Trine games this year. 

Full Season record:

W/L: 19-8  .704
vRRO: 2-7  .222

Without Hope/Trine (I realize the committee isn't likely to do this, but the quality of the teams you lose to is significant IMHO)

W/L: 19-3  .864
vRRO  2-2  .500

Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on March 01, 2022, 10:56:26 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 01, 2022, 10:39:55 AM
......but the quality of the teams you lose to is significant IMHO

I completely agree.

I get why you have to draw the line somewhere--otherwise the committee has to deliberate for 50 hours. (can't get into margin of victory, missing key players, etc, etc)

But Trine losing to RRO Hope should be treated a lot differently than DePauw losing to RRO Piedmont, for example.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 01, 2022, 11:14:54 AM
Hope v La Roche team stats comparison:



Offense     % 2pt   % 3pt      % FT
Hope     51.7   37.9      67.7
La Roche     47.7   30.3      58.1
------             
Defense     % 2pt   % 3pt     
Hope     33.1   24.7     
La Roche     40.6   22.3     
------             
Rebounding     Team   Opp      Margin
Hope     44.7   34      10.7
La Roche     40.3   39.4      0.9
------             
Scoring     Team   Opp      Margin
Hope     86.5   45.9      40.6
La Roche     73.2   57.8      15.4
------             
3 point shooting     Made/game        
Hope     8.2        
La Roche     5.7        
------             
Ball Control     Stl/game   TO/Game      OppTO/Game
Hope     17.8   15.1      26.6
La Roche     12.6   14.5      20.2
------             
Ball Control     Asst/game   A/TO      Blks/game
Hope     16.7   1.11      5
La Roche     15.8   1.09      3.1
------             
    vRRO   In-Div SOS      Massey Predicts
Hope     6-1   0.540      89
La Roche     1-2   0.496      46
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 01, 2022, 12:39:54 PM
Trine v Immaculata team stats comparison:



Offense     % 2pt   % 3pt      % FT
Trine     48.7   35.6      70.4
Immaculata     42.1   26.4      68.6
------             
Defense     % 2pt   % 3pt     
Trine     37.5   23.2     
Immaculata     39.7   25.1     
------             
Rebounding     Team   Opp      Margin
Trine     40.1   34      6.1
Immaculata     44.4   38.8      5.6
------             
Scoring     Team   Opp      Margin
Trine     74.4   47.4      27
Immaculata     67.7   55.8      11.9
------             
3 point shooting     Made/game        
Trine     7.9        
Immaculata     5.7        
------             
Ball Control     Stl/game   TO/Game      OppTO/Game
Trine     9.9   12.9      19.9
Immaculata     10.2   15.7      19.8
------             
Ball Control     Asst/game   A/TO      Blks/game
Trine     16.6   1.29      3.7
Immaculata     16.1   1.03      1.7
------             
    vRRO   In-Div SOS      Massey Predicts
Trine     5-3   0.55      76
Immaculata     1-1   0.481      41
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 01, 2022, 01:05:35 PM
For the Hope pod looking at records versus other NCAA tournament teams:

Marietta 3-3
Wittenberg 2-1
La Roche 1-2
Hope 3-1


One matchup between two of these teams in the regular season (on Nov 11 - 1st game of the season):

Marietta 63 La Roche 54


Common opponents (NCAA tourney teams):

Washigton & Jefferson - both La Roche & Marietta were 1-0
Baldwin-Wallace - Hope was 1-0, La Roche was 0-1, and Marietta was 0-2

Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 01, 2022, 01:17:00 PM
For the Trine pod looking at records versus other NCAA tournament teams:

John Carroll 3-3
Elizabethtown 0-2
Immaculata 1-0
Trine 2-3


No matchups between two of these teams in the regular season


Common opponents (NCAA tourney teams):

Baldwin-Wallace - Trine was 1-0, John Carroll was 2-1
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 02, 2022, 02:53:55 PM
Hope Pod - some additional data (cause I'm bored waiting for games).  Some details on the columns

Avg Pos/G - Average possession per game - to help judge the speed of games - pretty even
Off Eff (PPP) - Offensive Efficiency in Points Per Possession
Def Eff (PPP) - same thing on the defensive side
Home Attendance - just throwing that in there since you can bet DeVos will be 1500-2000 people, and that (along with the actual place itself) can be intimidating



Team     Avg Pos/G   Off Eff (PPP)   Def Eff (PPP)      Avg Home Attendance       
Marietta     71.8   0.962   0.812      497     
Wittenberg     72.8   0.892   0.803      380     
La Roche     73.4   0.997   0.795      88     
Hope     74.6   1.159   0.615      1001     
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 02, 2022, 03:19:30 PM
Trine Pod - some additional data (cause I'm bored waiting for games).  Some details on the columns

Avg Pos/G - Average possession per game - to help judge the speed of games - significant difference there.  Should Trine & JCU meet on Saturday that will be a battle of who controls pace.
Off Eff (PPP) - Offensive Efficiency in Points Per Possession
Def Eff (PPP) - same thing on the defensive side
Home Attendance - just throwing that in there since I expect the MTI Center will have ~1000 people, and that (along with the actual place itself) can be intimidating



Team     Avg Pos/G   Off Eff (PPP)   Def Eff (PPP)      Avg Home Attendance       
John Carroll     73.4   1.001   0.797      235     
Elizabethtown     69.5   1.037   0.881      131     
Immaculata     71.6   0.945   0.787      160     
Trine     66.7   1.116   0.716      521     
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on March 04, 2022, 09:16:57 PM
Oy Vey ::) Trine with a rather putrid 62-37 win over Immaculata University in the NCAA tournament opener in Angola tonight.  I hope this isn't a harbinger of things to come tomorrow night.  3-24 from behind the arc and 21 turnovers isn't going to cut it.  If they play this awful tomorrow night it will be a 1 and done for the gals as John Carroll University was pretty impressive in their thumping of Elizabethtown in the opener 100-56.  JCU looks to be a mirror image of Hope.  Big team, can shoot, plays good defense.  They were easily the best team of the 4 tonight.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: sac on March 04, 2022, 10:01:52 PM
Hope 84 LaRoche 52

It was 42-41 at one point with Hope sitting on a 1-10 3 point shooting night and being under 50% from the free-throw line.

Its gonna be a short tournament if that continues.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 04, 2022, 10:30:30 PM
That there's what you call a very hard-fought 32 point win.   :P
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Dutchfan on March 05, 2022, 12:41:53 AM
In my observations, three things sparked Hope's victory tonight...

1. Hope did a great job of getting the ball inside for quick, effective shots by Olivia Voskuil.

2. Meg Morehouse really got things going for Hope is the second half with quick hands resulting in timely breakaway baskets.

3. Simply put... Depth. La Roche was running on fumes in the fourth quarter while Hope's players were still fresh and energetic.

Unfortunately, Hope was abysmal from the charity stripe, shooting under 50%. The 3-point shooting was even worse for much of the night. Hope simply couldn't hit the broad side of a barn from more than ten feet for the first two thirds of the game, and that's just not going to cut it going forward.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 05, 2022, 07:03:29 AM
FREE THROWS!!!!!!

Hope has not been great from the line all year, hovering around 70% but the last few games have been really awful. Maybe it's just me but it seems like many of them are a bit too quick at the line and just need to slow down a bit. Last night Muller (5-6) and Gardner (4-4) looked comfortable and at ease at the line. The rest of the team (including several players with solid career FT% averages) went 2-14 - that's a whopping 14%.  The FT line - especially in the tournament - can win or lose you some games and they have got to turn this around.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: pointlem on March 05, 2022, 07:58:05 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 05, 2022, 07:03:29 AM
FREE THROWS!!!!!!

Hope has not been great from the line all year, hovering around 70% but the last few games have been really awful. Maybe it's just me but it seems like many of them are a bit too quick at the line and just need to slow down a bit. Last night Muller (5-6) and Gardner (4-4) looked comfortable and at ease at the line. The rest of the team (including several players with solid career FT% averages) went 2-14 - that's a whopping 14%.  The FT line - especially in the tournament - can win or lose you some games and they have got to turn this around.
Agree DutchFan and FDF . . . though if Hope was to have an off night shooting--the sort of night that happens and that will cause a favored tournament team to lose--the first game was the time for such. Samantha Feenstra's presence on that second squad is missed, but hopefully, and likely, the shooting will return.

Player of the game was Olivia Voskuil, with 8 of 11 shooting (layups over shorter defense), 9 rebounds, and 5 blocks. Her defensive presence makes Hope a better team when she's in. With Feenstra injured, it will be interesting to see if her minutes increase as the competition rises in games to come.

Someone seeing the 32 point win margin would have no clue how close that game was. Kudos to La Roche for playing tough and not being intimidated, until finally seeming to run out of gas facing the unremitting Hope intensity.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on March 05, 2022, 07:26:40 PM
Final:  Trine 63  John Carroll 42

Note to self: stop fretting! I was really worried about JCU as they looked so good yesterday.  But then again they don't play against defenses like Trine in their league.  After scoring 100 pts last night we hold the Blue Streaks to 42.  Trine got back to playing Trine basketball, which is play stifling defense, take care of the ball and make enough shots to get some breathing room on the other team.  We got off to a fantastic start as we raced out to a 15-0 lead and forced JCU to take an early timeout to right the ship.  Then JCU started getting the ball into their star player Olivia Nagy.  When she posts up and gets good position she is pretty much unstoppable 1 on 1.  In the second half we did double down on her more and she wasn't nearly as effective.

We still didn't shoot the ball well from 3, Tara was in a major slump this weekend, and so was Kayla.  We need Tara to hit 40% from 3 to be really good.  You watch her in warmups and she never misses from 3, but I think she gets winded easily and it affects her shot in the game.  Makayla Ardis played one of her best games I've seen, she and Rachel Stewart led us with 11 points, but we got contributions from everyone who played.  Nagy, who is the 2-time OAC most valuable player, finished with 21 pts and 14 rebounds and played 38 minutes.  She kind of reminds me of Gabby Timmer but is more athletic than Gabby.  JCU's other all-conference player, Nicole Heffington, finished with 8 points, but you could tell she wasn't 100% physically from getting injured last weekend. The injury affected her mobility and shooting, but being her senior year it wasn't going to stop her from playing.

Congrats Trine, on to the Sweet 16, more than likely traveling to Transylvania next weekend.

Now time to watch the Hope game...Lets Go Hope!!
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on March 05, 2022, 10:05:34 PM
Trine ROLLED BW.

Headed to Lexington probably?

I hope Trine comes out of that pod!
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on March 05, 2022, 10:11:02 PM
Hosts are probably Amherst, Baldwin Wallace, Hope, Transylvania.

Gracious, with the 600 miles, midwest teams are set up great to host the round of 16, because both Wisconsin and New England can drive to them.

Case in point: 577 miles from Smith to Baldwin Wallace. If the limit is 500 miles, that pod would have been at Whitewater.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on March 05, 2022, 10:35:36 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on March 05, 2022, 10:05:34 PM
Trine ROLLED BW.

Headed to Lexington probably?

I hope Trine comes out of that pod!
No official announcement until tomorrow, but pretty certain Trine will be heading to Transylvania next weekend.

Trine vs Springfield   *Springfield knocks off 2 ranked teams in Messiah and Ithaca to reach the Sweet 16*
Mary Hardin-Baylor vs Transylvania
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on March 06, 2022, 10:51:28 AM
From Dave McHugh:

"Womens hosts are known for next weekend:

Amherst
Hope
Transylvania
UW-Whitewater

We have learned that BW did not have put into host. IMO from what we've learned, BW not hosting likely cost CNU a host. I think there could have been 6 flights with CNU hosting ... not 7. #d3hoops"
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on March 06, 2022, 10:59:20 AM
And now hosts are up on NCAA.com.  Indeed Amherst, UW-Whitewater, Hope, Transylvania.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 06, 2022, 11:28:09 AM
BW did not put in to host.

Whenever I see that happen it always makes me wonder how the school responds to the team which certainly has to ask why.  I get that sometimes there are valid reasons but ouch if there are not.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on March 06, 2022, 11:35:49 AM
FDF, do we know if there are hosting requirements and which schools/campuses/gyms don't meet it? Like, would Kresge be able to host? I have zero knowledge on this subject.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on March 06, 2022, 11:38:45 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 06, 2022, 11:28:09 AM
BW did not put in to host.

Whenever I see that happen it always makes me wonder how the school responds to the team which certainly has to ask why.  I get that sometimes there are valid reasons but ouch if there are not.

Totally agreed.

Obviously if Simpson or DePauw made it though they'd be hosting over BW. But that's not a reason NOT to file the paperwork if you're BW.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 06, 2022, 11:47:06 AM
Quote from: scottiedawg on March 06, 2022, 11:35:49 AM
FDF, do we know if there are hosting requirements and which schools/campuses/gyms don't meet it? Like, would Kresge be able to host? I have zero knowledge on this subject.

I haven't seen the official requirements recently, but (at least in the past) Kresge has hosted games on the mens side. In 2005 Albion men hosted a 2nd round game (after getting a 1st round bye). They then hosted a regional, beat JCU on a last second miracle, only to lose to Calvin in the regional final. Being a smaller capacity may have lead to split sessions but it can happen.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: sac on March 06, 2022, 11:57:29 AM
I don't know the specifics of BW's situation but they are on Spring Break next week.

It's very hard to have the right support under those circumstances.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 06, 2022, 12:03:16 PM
Quote from: sac on March 06, 2022, 11:57:29 AM
I don't know the specifics of BW's situation but they are on Spring Break next week.

It's very hard to have the right support under those circumstances.

Often teams will ask to host after it's clear they have a shot.  The NCAA usually takes a firm line on that.  The only time they scramble is if none of the teams applied to host.  From what we know, BW was very excited to host after the fact, but didn't have the paperwork in.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on March 06, 2022, 12:06:18 PM
Hah, Babbitt asking a VERY strategy + scouting oriented question and Majerus and McKinney just letting Coach do his coach speak on it.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Dutchfan on March 06, 2022, 02:21:28 PM
According to the official bracket on ncaa.com, Hope women host next weekend.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Dutchfan on March 06, 2022, 02:26:37 PM
Sorry, it's on d3hoops.com, not ncaa.com, that shows Hope hosting. My bad.

It says that the other hosts are Amherst, UW-Whitewater and Transylvania.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on March 06, 2022, 02:50:01 PM
Quote from: sac on March 06, 2022, 11:57:29 AM
I don't know the specifics of BW's situation but they are on Spring Break next week.

It's very hard to have the right support under those circumstances.
I don't think whether a school is on spring break or not is a deal breaker.  Trine is on spring break this week.  For the 2 games this past weekend at Trine there were very few students at the game, I'd say fewer than 30.  They had all left for spring break.

I made my reservations for Lexington KY this coming weekend, let's go Trine!!
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: AlwaysHope on March 06, 2022, 03:53:34 PM
If Hope and Trine are fortunate to play again this tournament, when would that be?
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 06, 2022, 03:56:21 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on March 06, 2022, 12:06:18 PM
Hah, Babbitt asking a VERY strategy + scouting oriented question and Majerus and McKinney just letting Coach do his coach speak on it.

I loved MO's answer to the question (which I believe was from one of the local media reporters not the Hope SID).  If you haven't seen the postgame interview from last night, Coach Mo and his players were asked how practice and preparation for next weekend would happen and if there is a special approach to it. Classic answer by Mo and echoed by his players "We're gonna practice like we do everyday, like we have since last November". While that might be coach speak - I completely believe that for Hope it's the truth. On Hoopsville preseason show - Mo said that from his perspective, practice is the hardest "game" his team may face all season.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on March 06, 2022, 03:56:46 PM
Quote from: AlwaysHope on March 06, 2022, 03:53:34 PM
If Hope and Trine are fortunate to play again this tournament, when would that be?

Final Four, semifinals March 17 in Pittsburgh
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 06, 2022, 03:58:05 PM
Quote from: AlwaysHope on March 06, 2022, 03:53:34 PM
If Hope and Trine are fortunate to play again this tournament, when would that be?

That would be a national semi-final (meaning both teams need to win their games this coming Friday and Saturday.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on March 06, 2022, 05:52:52 PM
I grabbed stats from Hope's 11 "toughest" games:
Trine x3
Calvin x3
Albion x2
Baldwin Wallace
La Roche
Marietta
(maybe Alma or Mount Union was "tougher" than La Roche, but I had to include all tournament games)

Looking just at the "Core 9" with Feenstra injured.

Minutes Per Game
Kenedy Schoonveld, 23.8
Sydney Muller, 22.5
Olivia Voskuil, 20.9
Kate Majerus, 20.1
Ella McKinney, 19.6
Kasey DeSmit, 19.1
Claire Baguley, 17.3
Meg Morehouse, 16.5
Hannah Smith, 16.3

Max Minutes in any game is 33, by Schoonveld and Muller
Min Minutes in any game  is 11 by Morehouse and Smith

FG%
Kate Majerus, 57%
Hannah Smith, 51%
Meg Morehouse, 45%
Olivia Voskuil, 44%
Ella McKinney, 44%
Kenedy Schoonveld, 43%
Sydney Muller, 43%
Claire Baguley, 40%
Kasey DeSmit, 35%

3PT%
Excluding Smith and Voskuil as they have only attempted 0.6 per game over these 11 games

Kate Majerus, 64%
Sydney Muller, 46%
Kenedy Schoonveld, 41%
Ella McKinney, 30%
Kasey DeSmit, 30%
Claire Baguley, 26%
Meg Morehouse, 25%

FT%
Kate Majerus, 75% (but only 0.4 attempts per)
Kenedy Schoonveld, 71%
Hannah Smith, 70%
Sydney Muller, 68%
Claire Baguley, 68%
Kasey DeSmit, 60%
Ella McKinney, 55%
Olivia Voskuil, 54%
Meg Morehouse, 52%

Rebounds per 25 Min
Hannah Smith, 8.1
Olivia Voskuil, 7.7
Sydney Muller, 5.3
Kate Majerus, 4.5
Kenedy Schoonveld, 4.0
Claire Baguley, 3.3
Meg Morehouse, 3.2
Ella McKinney, 3.0
Kasey DeSmit, 1.4

Assists per 25 Min
Kasey DeSmit, 3.1
Kenedy Schoonveld, 2.6
Meg Morehouse, 2.1
Claire Baguley, 2.0
Sydney Muller, 1.7
Ella McKinney, 1.5
Olivia Voskuil, 1.3
Kate Majerus, 1.1
Hannah Smith, 0.8

Steals per 25 Min
Meg Morehouse, 2.2
Olivia Voskuil, 2.2
Kasey DeSmit, 2.1
Hannah Smith, 1.8
Sydney Muller, 1.5
Kate Majerus, 1.4
Kenedy Schoonveld, 1.3
Ella McKinney, 1.3
Claire Baguley, 0.5

Blocks per 25 Min
Olivia Voskuil, 3.8
Hannah Smith, 0.7
Kenedy Schoonveld, 0.7
Kate Majerus, 0.5
Kasey DeSmit, 0.1
Sydney Muller, 0.1

Turnovers per 25 Min
Sydney Muller, 2.9
Meg Morehouse, 2.9
Ella McKinney, 2.2
Olivia Voskuil, 2.0
Claire Baguley, 1.7
Kasey DeSmit, 1.4
Kenedy Schoonveld, 0.9
Kate Majerus, 0.7
Hannah Smith, 0.6

PF per 25 Min
Meg Morehouse, 3.5
Hannah Smith, 3.2
Kasey DeSmit, 3.0
Kate Majerus, 2.1
Ella McKinney, 2.1
Claire Baguley, 1.8
Sydney Muller, 1.7
Olivia Voskuil, 1.4
Kenedy Schoonveld, 1.0

Points per 25 Min
Olivia Voskuil, 11.6
Kenedy Schoonveld, 11.3
Ella McKinney, 11.0
Sydney Muller, 10.3
Kate Majerus, 9.0
Claire Baguley, 8.7
Meg Morehouse, 7.7
Hannah Smith, 6.6
Kasey DeSmit, 6.3
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: pointlem on March 07, 2022, 08:16:09 AM
Great data synopsis, Scottie Dawg. That was a piece of work, which documents, for example, Kate's amazing 3-point shooting (teams will be sticking with her on the perimeter, which can open up the lane for driving layups) and Meg's aggressive defense (seen in steals and fouls).

Also of possible interest: Ferris State this weekend defeated Grand Valley in the DII GLIAC tournament championship game. DIII Hope defeated Ferris 69 to 60 in a preseason exhibition game.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 07, 2022, 10:42:15 AM
Stats comparison for Millikin @ Hope on Friday:



Offense     % 2pt   % 3pt      % FT
Hope     52.0   37.8      66.6
Millikin     49.3   35.6      74.0
------             
Defense     % 2pt   % 3pt     
Hope     34.0   24.7     
Millikin     43.3   30.5     
------             
Rebounding     Team   Opp      Margin
Hope     44.2   34.0      10.2
Millikin     34.7   34.1      0.6
------             
Scoring     Team   Opp      Margin
Hope     86.4   46.8      39.6
Millikin     73.3   61.1      12.2
------             
3 point shooting     Made/game        
Hope     8.2        
Millikin     6.2        
------             
Ball Control     Stl/game   TO/Game      OppTO/Game
Hope     17.3   14.9      26.2
Millikin     12.4   16.6      21.7
------             
Ball Control     Asst/game   A/TO      Blks/game
Hope     16.6   1.11      4.8
Millikin     15.9   0.96      3.6
------             
    vRRO   In-Div SOS      Massey Predicts
Hope     6-1   0.540      80
Millikin     9-5   0.563      60
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on March 07, 2022, 12:07:07 PM
Quote from: pointlem on March 07, 2022, 08:16:09 AM
Also of possible interest: Ferris State this weekend defeated Grand Valley in the DII GLIAC tournament championship game. DIII Hope defeated Ferris 69 to 60 in a preseason exhibition game.

Very cool.

I will be Debby Downer a little here though and say that Ferris very much played that game as an exhibition. I would be interested in seeing the outcome of a "real" game between the two. Ferris really only plays 8 deep, with the starters garnering the majority of the minutes. I believe had Ferris gone into the game against Hope with it being a "real game" type of mentality, you would have seen more minutes from their starters.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 07, 2022, 02:01:55 PM
Hope Regional

This is going to be one great weekend of basketball at the DeVos - as you would expect for this round. Some thoughts and data about these teams:

Regional Ranking stuff (based on the final rankings, not updated since the tourney began)
-  NYU (Reg4), Scranton (Reg5), and Hope (Reg7) are all Ranked #1 in their regions, along with Millikin (Reg8) ranked #4.
-  Their SOS's range from .540 (Hope) to .597 (Scranton)
-  Combined they are 33-9 vRRO

NCAA Tournament history
-  All 4 of the teams have some significant tournament history
-  NYU is 33-22 all time (.600) - 3 Final Fours and 1 National Championship (1997)
-  Scranton is 68-36 all time (.654) - 9 Final Fours and 1 National Championship (1985)
-  Millikin is 24-14 all time (.632) - 3 Final Fours and 1 National Championship (2005)
-  Hope is 43-18 all time (.705) - 3 Final Fours and 2 National Championships (1990 & 2006)

Comparing this years teams
(details on the columns)
Avg Pos/G - Average possession per game - to help judge the speed of games
Off Eff (PPP) - Offensive Efficiency in Points Per Possession
Def Eff (PPP) - same thing on the defensive side
Home Attendance - just throwing that in there since there were ~ 2000 fans last weekend at each game, and I expect it will be even higher this weekend, and that can be intimidating

Team     Avg Pos/G   Off Eff (PPP)   Def Eff (PPP)      Avg Home Attendance       
NYU     72.5   1.079   0.780      98     
Scranton     64.6   1.043   0.801      356     
Millikin     71.3   1.029   0.856      252     
Hope     74.6   1.158   0.628      1100     

-  Based on Avg Pos/G - Scranton and NYU will likely be battling over the pace of the game.  Control the pace, and it likely gives you an advantage. 
-  Hope and Millikin both like a faster game.  I think this one comes down to Hope's defense and can they play with that .628 defensive efficiency
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: ronk on March 07, 2022, 02:27:24 PM
In 2006, Hope's national championship team beat Scranton in the semis by 3, arguably the "championship" game that season. I'm remembering Scranton's All-American Taryn Mellody missing a game-tying 3-pt attempt in the final seconds.
But, we both have formidable foes in sectional semis to get past before a rematch.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 07, 2022, 02:51:27 PM
Quote from: ronk on March 07, 2022, 02:27:24 PM
In 2006, Hope's national championship team beat Scranton in the semis by 3, arguably the "championship" game that season. I'm remembering Scranton's All-American Taryn Mellody missing a game-tying 3-pt attempt in the final seconds.
But, we both have formidable foes in sectional semis to get past before a rematch.

I remember that game very well - what a battle that was!
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 08, 2022, 10:52:12 AM
Transylvania Regional

Some thoughts and data about these teams:

Regional Ranking stuff (based on the final rankings, not updated since the tourney began)
-  Springfield #4 (Reg2), Trine #2 (Reg7), Transylvania #1 (Reg8) , and UMHB #1 (Reg10)
-  Their SOS's range from .542 (Transylvania) to .550 (Trine)
-  Combined they are 17-8 vRRO

NCAA Tournament history
-  All of the teams have some recent (since 2000) tournament history.  The only pre-2000 results were Springfiled going 1-1 in the 1982 tourney. 
-  Springfield is 8-7 all time (.533) - deepest run of these teams - getting to the Elite 8 in 2005
-  Trine is 8-3 all time (.727)
-  UMHB is 6-1 all time (.857)
-  Transylvania is 6-6 all time (.500)

Comparing this years teams
(details on the columns)
Avg Pos/G - Average possession per game - to help judge the speed of games
Off Eff (PPP) - Offensive Efficiency in Points Per Possession
Def Eff (PPP) - same thing on the defensive side



Team     Avg Pos/G   Off Eff (PPP)   Def Eff (PPP)             
Trine     66.7   1.099   0.707           
Springfield     68.6   1.049   0.794           
UMHB     73.1   0.963   0.845           
Transylvania     68.1   1.111   0.751           
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 08, 2022, 11:08:24 AM
Masset Predictions for Friday's Sweet 16 games.  I did this using the Matchup tool, since Massey's Games listings doesn't properly reflect neutral vs home games.




Massey     Rank   Score   Probability             
CNU     3   76   0.73           
Trinity TX     22   68   0.27           
-------------------     -------------------   -------------------   -------------------           
Tufts     14   55   0.4           
Amherst     13   59   0.6           
-------------------     -------------------   -------------------   -------------------           
Smith     16   58   0.15           
UW Whitewater     4   70   0.85           
-------------------     -------------------   -------------------   -------------------           
Baldwin-Wallace     8   55   0.44           
UW Oshkosh     7   58   0.56           
-------------------     -------------------   -------------------   -------------------           
Trine     2   67   0.86           
Springfield     24   55   0.14           
-------------------     -------------------   -------------------   -------------------           
UMHB     52   58   0.14           
Transylvania     10   70   0.86           
-------------------     -------------------   -------------------   -------------------           
NYU     6   69   0.76           
Scranton     25   60   0.24           
-------------------     -------------------   -------------------   -------------------           
Millikin     17   60   0.06           
Hope     1   80   0.94           

Interesting that the closest predicted game (B-W vs UWO) if it were instead being played at B-W (who didn't put in to host) would flip-flop with B-W predicted to win by 2
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: RogK on March 09, 2022, 11:14:22 AM
Hey Flying Dutch Fan, in regard to the Average Possessions per Game numbers in recent posts, do you know which definition of a possession was used?
Does an offensive rebound extend a single possession or does it start a new one?
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Baldini on March 09, 2022, 11:38:01 AM
Quote from: RogK on March 09, 2022, 11:14:22 AM
Hey Flying Dutch Fan, in regard to the Average Possessions per Game numbers in recent posts, do you know which definition of a possession was used?
Does an offensive rebound extend a single possession or does it start a new one?

If the other team doesn't possess the ball it would not be another possession. I've never seen a metric that counted an offensive rebound as a new possession.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 09, 2022, 11:57:22 AM
Quote from: RogK on March 09, 2022, 11:14:22 AM
Hey Flying Dutch Fan, in regard to the Average Possessions per Game numbers in recent posts, do you know which definition of a possession was used?
Does an offensive rebound extend a single possession or does it start a new one?

The calculation I am using (there are many variations out there) is this:

0.96 x (FG Attempts - Off Reb + Turnovers + (0.475 x FT Attempts))

We could debate the two "factors" - 0.96 and 0.475 - but since I'm using the same calculation across the board changing them is not likely to make the comparisons between the teams change much. 
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: RogK on March 09, 2022, 01:19:02 PM
Thanks for showing the formula.
It does fit in the definition that an o-reb continues a single possession, which is the definition I like.
I imagine high-budget operations like the NBA probably have someone in the stat-keeping that inserts a change-of-possession indicator in the official play-by-play, so they have an ongoing count of possessions.
Even there, some judgement is involved when there's a scrum for a loose ball that may include several quick changes of possession. The shot clock operator makes those judgements I guess.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 09, 2022, 02:05:19 PM
Quote from: RogK on March 09, 2022, 01:19:02 PM
Thanks for showing the formula.
It does fit in the definition that an o-reb continues a single possession, which is the definition I like.
I imagine high-budget operations like the NBA probably have someone in the stat-keeping that inserts a change-of-possession indicator in the official play-by-play, so they have an ongoing count of possessions.
Even there, some judgement is involved when there's a scrum for a loose ball that may include several quick changes of possession. The shot clock operator makes those judgements I guess.

Agreed - in fact I've always wanted to watch a game and keep track myself and then compare it to the calculation, but I'm either too invested in the outcome (live) or too busy or distracted to go rewatch a game and do it that way.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on March 10, 2022, 11:01:36 AM
Terrific  ::)...Lexington KY forecast calls for a 'bomb cyclone' with snow/ice mixture Friday evening thru Saturday morning.  3-6" of snow possible.  Thankfully it won't affect the drive down as I'll already be in Lexington Friday afternoon for Trine's 4:30 game.  Saturday will be very cold and then start to warm back up on Sunday.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 10, 2022, 11:37:39 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on March 10, 2022, 11:01:36 AM
Terrific  ::)...Lexington KY forecast calls for a 'bomb cyclone' with snow/ice mixture Friday evening thru Saturday morning.  3-6" of snow possible.  Thankfully it won't affect the drive down as I'll already be in Lexington Friday afternoon for Trine's 4:30 game.  Saturday will be very cold and then start to warm back up on Sunday.

Well be careful, and hopefully you have reason to stay through Saturday night and head back during a warmer Sunday (minus that hour of sleep we lose this weekend).
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on March 10, 2022, 11:51:43 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 10, 2022, 11:37:39 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on March 10, 2022, 11:01:36 AM
Terrific  ::)...Lexington KY forecast calls for a 'bomb cyclone' with snow/ice mixture Friday evening thru Saturday morning.  3-6" of snow possible.  Thankfully it won't affect the drive down as I'll already be in Lexington Friday afternoon for Trine's 4:30 game.  Saturday will be very cold and then start to warm back up on Sunday.

Well be careful, and hopefully you have reason to stay through Saturday night and head back during a warmer Sunday (minus that hour of sleep we lose this weekend).
Thanks FDF.  I am staying the weekend regardless of the outcome Friday, hoping for a couple "W's".
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: ronk on March 10, 2022, 12:01:46 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 07, 2022, 02:01:55 PM
Hope Regional

This is going to be one great weekend of basketball at the DeVos - as you would expect for this round. Some thoughts and data about these teams:

Regional Ranking stuff (based on the final rankings, not updated since the tourney began)
-  NYU (Reg4), Scranton (Reg5), and Hope (Reg7) are all Ranked #1 in their regions, along with Millikin (Reg8) ranked #4.
-  Their SOS's range from .540 (Hope) to .597 (Scranton)
-  Combined they are 33-9 vRRO

NCAA Tournament history
-  All 4 of the teams have some significant tournament history
-  NYU is 33-22 all time (.600) - 3 Final Fours and 1 National Championship (1997)
-  Scranton is 68-36 all time (.654) - 9 Final Fours and 1 National Championship (1985)
-  Millikin is 24-14 all time (.632) - 3 Final Fours and 1 National Championship (2005)
-  Hope is 43-18 all time (.705) - 3 Final Fours and 2 National Championships (1990 & 2006)

Comparing this years teams
(details on the columns)
Avg Pos/G - Average possession per game - to help judge the speed of games
Off Eff (PPP) - Offensive Efficiency in Points Per Possession
Def Eff (PPP) - same thing on the defensive side
Home Attendance - just throwing that in there since there were ~ 2000 fans last weekend at each game, and I expect it will be even higher this weekend, and that can be intimidating

Team     Avg Pos/G   Off Eff (PPP)   Def Eff (PPP)      Avg Home Attendance       
NYU     72.5   1.079   0.780      98     
Scranton     64.6   1.043   0.801      356     
Millikin     71.3   1.029   0.856      252     
Hope     74.6   1.158   0.628      1100     

-  Based on Avg Pos/G - Scranton and NYU will likely be battling over the pace of the game.  Control the pace, and it likely gives you an advantage. 
-  Hope and Millikin both like a faster game.  I think this one comes down to Hope's defense and can they play with that .628 defensive efficiency

Was there for the Millikin championship - they had a PG, Audrey Minott, who was the consummate PG and the standard for my evaluations since then of college prospects in an era when roles were more pronounced than in today's game.
2006 - attended regional and sectional but couldn't get away for the final 4.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on March 10, 2022, 01:26:23 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on March 10, 2022, 11:01:36 AM
Terrific  ::)...Lexington KY forecast calls for a 'bomb cyclone' with snow/ice mixture Friday evening thru Saturday morning.  3-6" of snow possible.  Thankfully it won't affect the drive down as I'll already be in Lexington Friday afternoon for Trine's 4:30 game.  Saturday will be very cold and then start to warm back up on Sunday.

Hopefully the following weekend, we'll both be driving to Pittsburg on dry, clear roads.

On that note, seeing as all 3 Hope v. Trine games this season were won by the away team, who would have the advantage on a neutral court? I really hope we get the chance to find out! :)
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: sac on March 10, 2022, 03:20:40 PM
Quote from: RogK on March 09, 2022, 01:19:02 PM
Thanks for showing the formula.
It does fit in the definition that an o-reb continues a single possession, which is the definition I like.
I imagine high-budget operations like the NBA probably have someone in the stat-keeping that inserts a change-of-possession indicator in the official play-by-play, so they have an ongoing count of possessions.
Even there, some judgement is involved when there's a scrum for a loose ball that may include several quick changes of possession. The shot clock operator makes those judgements I guess.

I think Sidearm live stats actually has a live possessions counter.  It may use the formula anyway, but I've seen it on some games I've followed this year.  Some schools use the very fancy version, some do not.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: RogK on March 10, 2022, 03:57:24 PM
Thanks for the info, sac.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: gordonmann on March 10, 2022, 06:47:49 PM
I'm planning on making a road trip to Transylvania tomorrow and Saturday for this weekend's regional games. If you're so inclined and want to say hello, please do!

I'm bald, pale and have a goatee. I often wear a Tigers hat, if that helps. :)
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Baldini on March 10, 2022, 07:22:05 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on March 10, 2022, 06:47:49 PM
I'm planning on making a road trip to Transylvania tomorrow and Saturday for this weekend's regional games. If you're so inclined and want to say hello, please do!

I'm bald, pale and have a goatee. I often wear a Tigers hat, if that helps. :)

Pack your snow gear.  ;D
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Dutchfan on March 10, 2022, 11:30:40 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on March 10, 2022, 06:47:49 PM
I'm planning on making a road trip to Transylvania tomorrow and Saturday for this weekend's regional games. If you're so inclined and want to say hello, please do!

I'm bald, pale and have a goatee. I often wear a Tigers hat, if that helps. :)
How do we know you're bald if you're wearing a Tiger's hat?
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Riley Zayas on March 10, 2022, 11:55:48 PM
For a look at the competition Trine will be facing in Lexington this weekend at its sectional pod, which includes UMHB, Transylvania, and Springfield, check out the preview below. I really like Trine's chances to emerge from this pod. The Thunder have been a very complete team for much of this season...and just saying, it would likely create a Hope-Trine matchup in the Final Four, which would be incredible.

https://truetothecru.com/2022/03/10/ncaa-tournament-preview-umhb-womens-basketball-battles-transylvania-trine-faces-springfield-in-third-round/
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: pointlem on March 11, 2022, 01:48:38 PM
Quote from: True To The Cru on March 10, 2022, 11:55:48 PM
For a look at the competition Trine will be facing in Lexington this weekend at its sectional pod, which includes UMHB, Transylvania, and Springfield, check out the preview below. I really like Trine's chances to emerge from this pod. The Thunder have been a very complete team for much of this season...and just saying, it would likely create a Hope-Trine matchup in the Final Four, which would be incredible.

https://truetothecru.com/2022/03/10/ncaa-tournament-preview-umhb-womens-basketball-battles-transylvania-trine-faces-springfield-in-third-round/
Well done, True to the Cru. UMHB and its supporters must appreciate you much as Calvin/Hope/Trine fans appreciate KnightSlappy/OldKnight, Sac/FDF, and TU Angola.

If UMHB sticks with a 2-3 zone, as you say, my hunch is that it may be a long night for them if Trine's 3-point shooters are on their game. But cross-region games sometimes surprise us.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on March 11, 2022, 02:10:00 PM
So I'm here in Lexington.  Left Indiana early this morning to 20 degree temps and a fresh coat of snow on the ground, contrast to the sunny 60 degree weather here in Lexington...for now.  Latest forecast is still calling for snow to start falling around 9 or10pm tonight and last until morning.  Lexington weatherman says anywhere from 3-6 inches of snow expected.  At least the weather should not affect those coming in for the games today.  And the snow should be done and roads cleared before tomorrow's 6pm game.  Traveling down I-75 is not much fun...bumper to bumper traffic all the way to Cincinnati before it started to get less congested in Kentucky.

I will report back tonight with a recap win or lose, will probably stay for the second game too.  Good luck to both Trine and Hope as they continue on their post season journey!

 
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Baldini on March 11, 2022, 03:08:29 PM
Quote from: pointlem on March 11, 2022, 01:48:38 PM
Quote from: True To The Cru on March 10, 2022, 11:55:48 PM
For a look at the competition Trine will be facing in Lexington this weekend at its sectional pod, which includes UMHB, Transylvania, and Springfield, check out the preview below. I really like Trine's chances to emerge from this pod. The Thunder have been a very complete team for much of this season...and just saying, it would likely create a Hope-Trine matchup in the Final Four, which would be incredible.

https://truetothecru.com/2022/03/10/ncaa-tournament-preview-umhb-womens-basketball-battles-transylvania-trine-faces-springfield-in-third-round/
Well done, True to the Cru. UMHB and its supporters must appreciate you much as Calvin/Hope/Trine fans appreciate KnightSlappy/OldKnight, Sac/FDF, and TU Angola.

If UMHB sticks with a 2-3 zone, as you say, my hunch is that it may be a long night for them if Trine's 3-point shooters are on their game. But cross-region games sometimes surprise us.

But UMHB doesn't play a 2-3 zone and they don't play Trine, at least not tonight.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Riley Zayas on March 11, 2022, 05:08:31 PM
Quote from: Baldini on March 11, 2022, 03:08:29 PM
Quote from: pointlem on March 11, 2022, 01:48:38 PM
Quote from: True To The Cru on March 10, 2022, 11:55:48 PM
For a look at the competition Trine will be facing in Lexington this weekend at its sectional pod, which includes UMHB, Transylvania, and Springfield, check out the preview below. I really like Trine's chances to emerge from this pod. The Thunder have been a very complete team for much of this season...and just saying, it would likely create a Hope-Trine matchup in the Final Four, which would be incredible.

https://truetothecru.com/2022/03/10/ncaa-tournament-preview-umhb-womens-basketball-battles-transylvania-trine-faces-springfield-in-third-round/
Well done, True to the Cru. UMHB and its supporters must appreciate you much as Calvin/Hope/Trine fans appreciate KnightSlappy/OldKnight, Sac/FDF, and TU Angola.

If UMHB sticks with a 2-3 zone, as you say, my hunch is that it may be a long night for them if Trine's 3-point shooters are on their game. But cross-region games sometimes surprise us.

But UMHB doesn't play a 2-3 zone and they don't play Trine, at least not tonight.

Yeah. If you read the article, it's very clear that UMHB will play Transy. And I said Transy runs a 2-3 zone, which is what I have been told and seen a few times on film.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Riley Zayas on March 11, 2022, 05:09:34 PM
Quote from: pointlem on March 11, 2022, 01:48:38 PM
Quote from: True To The Cru on March 10, 2022, 11:55:48 PM
For a look at the competition Trine will be facing in Lexington this weekend at its sectional pod, which includes UMHB, Transylvania, and Springfield, check out the preview below. I really like Trine's chances to emerge from this pod. The Thunder have been a very complete team for much of this season...and just saying, it would likely create a Hope-Trine matchup in the Final Four, which would be incredible.

https://truetothecru.com/2022/03/10/ncaa-tournament-preview-umhb-womens-basketball-battles-transylvania-trine-faces-springfield-in-third-round/
Well done, True to the Cru. UMHB and its supporters must appreciate you much as Calvin/Hope/Trine fans appreciate KnightSlappy/OldKnight, Sac/FDF, and TU Angola.

If UMHB sticks with a 2-3 zone, as you say, my hunch is that it may be a long night for them if Trine's 3-point shooters are on their game. But cross-region games sometimes surprise us.

I appreciate the compliments. Try to do what I can to improve coverage of UMHB, the ASC, and in particular circumstances, national D3 coverage.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on March 11, 2022, 06:25:49 PM
Riley does good work!
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on March 11, 2022, 06:26:09 PM
Trine with another dominating win. They're sure making it look easy.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on March 11, 2022, 08:20:45 PM
Trine with a hard fought 58-49 win over Springfield tonight.  We played really well the 1st half and jumped out to a 35-19 lead at the break.  In the third you could sense Springfield was not going to away quietly.  They started hitting shots and crashing the offensive boards.  The game was called really tight, we had a lot of fouls called on us which led to Springfield getting to the line twice as much as Trine.  Springfield went to a zone defense the second half and it was hard to get anything going inside and we had several possessions where we were deep into the shot clock and had to force up contested shots.  Our saving grace was Tara Bieniewicz.  Whoo boy what a game she had.  She shot 8-11 from 3 and we needed every one of them.  When Springfield cut the lead to 4 points, Tara had a huge 3 which put us back up 7 and we end up winning by 9.  Springfield is pretty talented, they have a D1 transfer on their team.  And their big girl can step out and shoot the 3, we had lapses in ball screens and left her wide open.

Transylvania has a nice gym.  I stayed for the 1st half of the second game and Transy filled up the arena.  Big student section.  It was loud.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Baldini on March 11, 2022, 10:10:03 PM
Quote from: True To The Cru on March 11, 2022, 05:08:31 PM
Quote from: Baldini on March 11, 2022, 03:08:29 PM
Quote from: pointlem on March 11, 2022, 01:48:38 PM
Quote from: True To The Cru on March 10, 2022, 11:55:48 PM
For a look at the competition Trine will be facing in Lexington this weekend at its sectional pod, which includes UMHB, Transylvania, and Springfield, check out the preview below. I really like Trine's chances to emerge from this pod. The Thunder have been a very complete team for much of this season...and just saying, it would likely create a Hope-Trine matchup in the Final Four, which would be incredible.

https://truetothecru.com/2022/03/10/ncaa-tournament-preview-umhb-womens-basketball-battles-transylvania-trine-faces-springfield-in-third-round/
Well done, True to the Cru. UMHB and its supporters must appreciate you much as Calvin/Hope/Trine fans appreciate KnightSlappy/OldKnight, Sac/FDF, and TU Angola.

If UMHB sticks with a 2-3 zone, as you say, my hunch is that it may be a long night for them if Trine's 3-point shooters are on their game. But cross-region games sometimes surprise us.

But UMHB doesn't play a 2-3 zone and they don't play Trine, at least not tonight.

Yeah. If you read the article, it's very clear that UMHB will play Transy. And I said Transy runs a 2-3 zone, which is what I have been told and seen a few times on film.

But my response was to the last posting and if you read them in order you will see that is very clear also. 
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Baldini on March 11, 2022, 10:17:07 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on March 11, 2022, 08:20:45 PM
Trine with a hard fought 58-49 win over Springfield tonight.  We played really well the 1st half and jumped out to a 35-19 lead at the break.  In the third you could sense Springfield was not going to away quietly.  They started hitting shots and crashing the offensive boards.  The game was called really tight, we had a lot of fouls called on us which led to Springfield getting to the line twice as much as Trine.  Springfield went to a zone defense the second half and it was hard to get anything going inside and we had several possessions where we were deep into the shot clock and had to force up contested shots.  Our saving grace was Tara Bieniewicz.  Whoo boy what a game she had.  She shot 8-11 from 3 and we needed every one of them.  When Springfield cut the lead to 4 points, Tara had a huge 3 which put us back up 7 and we end up winning by 9.  Springfield is pretty talented, they have a D1 transfer on their team.  And their big girl can step out and shoot the 3, we had lapses in ball screens and left her wide open.

Transylvania has a nice gym.  I stayed for the 1st half of the second game and Transy filled up the arena.  Big student section.  It was loud.

Trine traveled well tonight, guessing there will be plenty of noise on both sides tomorrow night. Agree Bieniewicz was impressive tonight, you could tell she was feeling it.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 12, 2022, 08:27:02 AM
Watched both MIAA teams last night online and very happy to see them both advance. One more win for each gets us to a fourth Hope/Trine matchup. While as a Hope fan I think I'd rather face anyone rather than Trine, I'm still hoping it happens - since that would guarantee an MIAA school in the championship game. BUT lots of work to do tonight for any of that to happen. Some thoughts on last night's games:

- Trine started out very strong and got to the half with a 16 point lead. Both the 3rd and 4th quarters were "won" by Springfield but the Thunder held on for the win. Trine as a team (52%) and specifically Bieniewicz (73%) were on fire from 3. Quite the contrast to their lowly 29% from 2. If Trine shoots the 3 that well against the Transy zone lookout.

- Hope did what Hope does - played a tough first half and had a 4pt lead. Some halftime tweaks (I think Coach Mo is extremely good at making minor adjustments to his D that pay major dividends) and a nice early Q3 run got the 3300+ fans really going. Kenedy had a fabulous game both in defending Knudsen as well as scoring 24pts in 25 min on 6-7 from 3. Knudsen is a really gifted offensive player who scored 25 but I think Hope also made her uncomfortable leading to her 9 turnovers.

Hope vs NYU looks to be a great game - couple of teams that are big and play tough D and turnover the other team. No easy games, no next game yet.  it's win or go home. Go Hope!!
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Dutchfan on March 12, 2022, 08:51:40 AM
Very exciting game at the DeVos last night! Tough fought 91-77 victory for the Lady Dutch!

Both teams shot well last night, and Millikin came out with an intensity rarely seen and really gave Hope some trouble early on, finishing the first quarter tied at 19. The second quarter starter out as more of the same, but about halfway through the second quarter it seemed that Millikin started to slow down just a little bit, their intensity waned slightly and their shooting and ball handling were just slightly off. Hope went into the half with a 4 point lead. The second half was a continuation of the of the last 10 minutes of the second quarter with Hope continuing to build their lead. Six minutes into the second half Hope had built an eighteen point lead, 63-47. Millikin made a bit of a comeback to end the quarter down by twelve. The fourth quarter was mostly a draw with Hope extending their lead by two to win 91-77.

A few observations...

1. It was a All-American night at the DeVos with Kenedy Schoonveld leading Hope with 24 points, including 6-7 3-pointers, and Elyce Knudsen, the sophomore phenom and shoo in for All-American from Millikin, shooting 55% from the field and leading all players with 25 points!

2. Turnovers. Hope forced Millikin into 18 turnovers while only turning the ball over 7 times.

3. Depth. As I stated earlier, Millikin seemed to slow just a bit about halfway through the second quarter. For the rest of the game they couldn't keep up the same intensity that they had coming out of the gate. Hope, of course, had no such issue due to their depth.

4. It was awesome seeing a full house last night at the DeVos. With a crowd of 3,333 orange clad fans, Hope definitely had the home court advantage.

5. Meg Morehouse, despite not showing it on the stats sheets as such, had a great game on defense and did an overall great job slowing down Knudsen. Has anyone else noticed that she seems to have arms all over the place when defending, almost like they double in length?
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Dutchfan on March 12, 2022, 09:19:45 AM
According to Massey Ratings...

Hope has an 83% chance of beating NYU with a score of 77-65.
Trine has 91% chance of beating Transylvania with a score of 75-58.
Amherst has a 57% chance of beating Trinity with a score of 61-59.
UW-Whitewater has a 55% chance of beating conference rival UW-Oshkosh 61-60.

UW-Whitewater and UW-Oshkosh split the regular season with each winning at home. Whitewater won the first matchup 97-63, Oshkosh the second 60-57. A week later, during the WIAC tourney at Whitewater, the Warhawks of Whitewater won 77-63.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Baldini on March 12, 2022, 09:27:12 AM
Quote from: Dutchfan on March 12, 2022, 09:19:45 AM
According to Massey Ratings...

Hope has an 83% chance of beating NYU with a score of 77-65.
Trine has 91% chance of beating Transylvania with a score of 75-58.
Amherst has a 57% chance of beating Trinity with a score of 61-59.
UW-Whitewater has a 55% chance of beating conference rival UW-Oshkosh 61-60.

UW-Whitewater and UW-Oshkosh split the regular season with each winning at home. Whitewater won the first matchup 97-63, Oshkosh the second 60-57. A week later, during the WIAC tourney at Whitewater, the Warhawks of Whitewater won 77-63.

Not sure how you got those numbers, but Trine is not 91%.

https://masseyratings.com/game.php?s0=379388&oid0=8020&h=-1&s1=379388&oid1=8009


Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Dutchfan on March 12, 2022, 09:42:45 AM
Quote from: Baldini on March 12, 2022, 09:27:12 AM
Quote from: Dutchfan on March 12, 2022, 09:19:45 AM
According to Massey Ratings...

Hope has an 83% chance of beating NYU with a score of 77-65.
Trine has 91% chance of beating Transylvania with a score of 75-58.
Amherst has a 57% chance of beating Trinity with a score of 61-59.
UW-Whitewater has a 55% chance of beating conference rival UW-Oshkosh 61-60.

UW-Whitewater and UW-Oshkosh split the regular season with each winning at home. Whitewater won the first matchup 97-63, Oshkosh the second 60-57. A week later, during the WIAC tourney at Whitewater, the Warhawks of Whitewater won 77-63.

Not sure how you got those numbers, but Trine is not 91%.

https://masseyratings.com/game.php?s0=379388&oid0=8020&h=-1&s1=379388&oid1=8009
I did it the exact same way and it told me 91% for Trine. Now it say 80% while your link said 71%..

https://masseyratings.com/game.php?s0=379388&oid0=8009&h=0&s1=379388&oid1=8020
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on March 12, 2022, 09:53:04 AM
In this case, have to make sure the matchup tool is set so that Transylvania is the home team.  That gets you to 71% for Trine
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Dutchfan on March 12, 2022, 09:55:24 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 12, 2022, 09:53:04 AM
In this case, have to make sure the matchup tool is set so that Transylvania is the home team.  That gets your to 71% for Trine
I gotcha. I wasn't aware of that.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: pointlem on March 12, 2022, 11:13:29 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 12, 2022, 08:27:02 AM
Watched both MIAA teams last night online and very happy to see them both advance. One more win for each gets us to a fourth Hope/Trine matchup. While as a Hope fan I think I'd rather face anyone rather than Trine, I'm still hoping it happens - since that would guarantee an MIAA school in the championship game.
Rooting for Trine from up north . . . but also b/c, if Hope wins tonight I'd rather it not have to face a team capable of beating Trine. We're with you for one more game, TUAngola.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: gordonmann on March 12, 2022, 11:31:23 AM
I'm very interested to see how Transylvania comes out after playing their starters very heavy minutes last night, while Trine has more depth.

Emotion and adrenaline shouldn't be a problem because the Beck Center will be packed, but playing two physical, tough and (I assume) close games in about 24 hours is asking a lot of a short bench.

Of course, I say this every year about Amherst and they keep winning so what do I know. :)
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Baldini on March 12, 2022, 12:50:49 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on March 12, 2022, 11:31:23 AM
I'm very interested to see how Transylvania comes out after playing their starters very heavy minutes last night, while Trine has more depth.

Emotion and adrenaline shouldn't be a problem because the Beck Center will be packed, but playing two physical, tough and (I assume) close games in about 24 hours is asking a lot of a short bench.

Of course, I say this every year about Amherst and they keep winning so what do I know. :)

Was thinking the same thing, a few of those girls looked gassed in the last couple of minutes of last nights game.   
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on March 12, 2022, 01:54:50 PM
It's gonna be tough for Trine tonight.  Having the home court advantage is huge, the gym will be packed with rabid Pioneer fans.  Transy is very good.  I wasn't sure if they were the real deal or not since their conference isn't that strong.  But after watching the first half of their game last night against UMHB I think they can play with anybody.  They have a couple of skilled 3-point shooters in Kellione and Stacy.  You can't give them an open look or they will burn you.  Thornton inside is hard to keep off the boards.  Massey says we're favored but I honestly think we're the underdog going into tonight's game.  I think the key will be 1) we need to keep them off the boards 2) not give up uncontested 3s to Kellione and Stacy 3) need better post play out of the Sloneker twins, Sam Underhill and especially Kelsey Taylor.  Taylor wasn't very effective yesterday, she needs to play much better tonight.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on March 12, 2022, 05:53:46 PM
Good luck to the Trine Thunder!  They've already shown they can go to a top team's home court and end a long winning streak (still hurts to talk about it) so hear's hoping they do it again tonight!
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Jester1390 on March 12, 2022, 06:36:34 PM
Ball getting the 2 nd foul and not the jump huge call.  Transy missing her greatly on the floor
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Jester1390 on March 12, 2022, 06:45:46 PM
Ball is important. But this guy going off about her sitting she isn't 20 pts swing stop.    13-0 bench points for trine.   
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Jester1390 on March 12, 2022, 07:02:04 PM
Really smart coaching by trim 3 possessions in a row going at ball to get foul she has to be smarter can't foul from behind
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Jester1390 on March 12, 2022, 07:05:24 PM
Really smart coaching by trim 3 possessions in a row going at ball to get foul she has to be smarter can't foul from behind  now a 4th . Players worrying more about refs then playing
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on March 12, 2022, 07:20:40 PM
Trine allowed 4 points in the 2nd quarter, and 4 in the 3rd. Insanely good defense.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on March 12, 2022, 07:32:56 PM
Morehouse is so freaking impressive.

In the tournament she's cleaned up her turnovers and FT shooting.

In addition to all the other ever-present positives.

She's been tremendous.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 12, 2022, 07:51:33 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on March 12, 2022, 07:20:40 PM
Trine allowed 4 points in the 2nd quarter, and 4 in the 3rd. Insanely good defense.

Hard to win when you only score 8 in a "half" of basketball...
Great win Trine! HOPE to see you next week.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 12, 2022, 08:09:49 PM
I think they forgot to take the lids off the rims tonight. :-\  Hate to see the Pioneers go down but it was a heck of a game.
Good luck in Pittsburgh next week Thunder. Rest of D3 is 0fer against Transylvania and Hope so far this year.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on March 12, 2022, 08:12:24 PM
Trine holds Transylvania 38% below their season scoring average, 32% below their season FG%, and 36% below their season 3PT%.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 12, 2022, 08:35:49 PM
Hope/Trine IV next week!!!
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on March 12, 2022, 09:34:56 PM
FINAL FOUR BABY!!!!  TRINE 54 TRANSYLVANIA 47!!!

Defense travels!  It's just amazing what Trine can do defensively to take other teams out of their offensive flow.  We held Transy to 4 points in the second quarter and 4 points in the third quarter, our D held them to 3-26 shooting over those 2 quarters.  We needed our D to take control because Transy came out juiced and got their crowd into the game early.  It was a "Hope-like" atmosphere at their gym.  Transy was smart in that even though they played zone, they extended it out very far to not let Tara get any good looks from 3.  It was not looking good at the end of the 1st quarter, Transy up 19-8.  They were very aggressive on the boards, which I knew they would be.  One of my keys was to limit their second chance opportunities but the Pioneers ended up outrebounding us 44-31 with 17 of Transy's boards on the offensive end.  Another one of my keys was that we needed better play out of Kelsy, Sam and the Slonekers.  Enter Miss Sam Underhill who was HUGE in the second quarter getting us going offensively.  I think she had 8 in the second, and also Transy finally lost track of Tara a couple times and she hit 2 huge 3 pointers.  And Katie Sloneker had one of her best games, not known for her outside prowess she nailed a 3 pointer in the closing minute to give us a 29-23 lead at half.  A slow start offensively to the 3rd quarter for Trine, but our defense kept Transy from making any kind of a run.  They scored the first 3 points of the quarter but then we go on a 10-0 run to take control and lead at the end of the 3rd 41-27.  Fourth quarter was a big struggle, we couldn't hit anything and Transy made a run.  It took us over 6 minutes to score with Katie Sloneker making a huge left-handed sweeping hook shot to break the ice.  Transy cut the lead to 5 points on 3 occasions but we got huge buckets from Makayla Ardis and Rachel Stewart and the Pioneers could not get any closer.  They had to foul and we hit 5-8 free throws in the last minute or so to ward off their final attempt.

So Transy wins the 1st and 4th quarters, but our 2nd and 3rd quarters were just steller.  My final key was to limit Kellione and Stacy from getting open looks from outside and we locked them down.  They ended up shooting a combined 2-11 from 3.  Kellione did end up with 15 points as she is also adept at getting into the paint and scoring.  Sam led us with 11 points, Tara with 10, Kaylee Argyle with 9 including a perfect 6-6 at the FT line, and Katie Sloneker with 8.  I'm sure Transy had not seen a defense like this all year, we made them uncomfortable all night in running their offense.  Also their lack of depth was a factor as our bench outscored theirs 27-3.   

I was only able to get one update at the game on how Hope was doing and was told Hope had a slim lead at half.  So happy they had a great second half to win!!.  Can you believe Hope-Trine for a fourth time in the final four??  I'd like Trine to win for sure but if they do lose I'd want it to be to Hope.  Gosh I wish the girls final four was in Ft Wayne like the men!  I think Hope and Trine would have had at least a couple thousand fans each.  But alas it's in Pittsburgh.  I won't be able to swing getting off work next week to travel to PA so will have to watch from home.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on March 12, 2022, 09:40:13 PM
...I also wanted to mention our Trine mens basketball team seniors were all at the game and were so loud!  Since we had no cheerleaders because of spring break, they were our cheerleaders!!  Great job Reese, Aiden, Bryce, Mitch and Nick!!
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on March 12, 2022, 09:45:12 PM
Massey ranked defenses 1, 2, 4, 9 are in the Final Four.  Oshkosh almost made it the top 4.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 13, 2022, 01:53:17 AM

After the craziness of the weekend, the current longest active winning streak in d3 women's basketball now belongs to:  Hope, with 14.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: pointlem on March 13, 2022, 08:58:25 AM
Quote from: pointlem on February 28, 2022, 05:04:41 PM
Knocking on wood . . . it's interesting that this season's 4th Hope v. Trine game ( ;D) is scheduled for Thursday, March 17th (i.e., the tournament semi on Thursday, two days before the Saturday championship) . . . meaning another day for student-athletes to be away from classes, and surely fewer fans willing to commit the extra day of travel with a dead day in between. Not a wise NCAA decision?
So great for Hope and Trine both to deservedly make it to the Final Four, as the Massey #1 and #2 teams. I'm still wondering what the thinking was behind the scheduling, with the time away it adds for DIII student athletes and the impediment to fans coming to Pitt for a Thursday game. Perhaps both school's AD's could plan a possible day-trip charter bus for fans, should their team make it to the Saturday?
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: ronk on March 13, 2022, 11:15:24 AM
Quote from: pointlem on March 13, 2022, 08:58:25 AM
Quote from: pointlem on February 28, 2022, 05:04:41 PM
Knocking on wood . . . it's interesting that this season's 4th Hope v. Trine game ( ;D) is scheduled for Thursday, March 17th (i.e., the tournament semi on Thursday, two days before the Saturday championship) . . . meaning another day for student-athletes to be away from classes, and surely fewer fans willing to commit the extra day of travel with a dead day in between. Not a wise NCAA decision?
So great for Hope and Trine both to deservedly make it to the Final Four, as the Massey #1 and #2 teams. I'm still wondering what the thinking was behind the scheduling, with the time away it adds for DIII student athletes and the impediment to fans coming to Pitt for a Thursday game. Perhaps both school's AD's could plan a possible day-trip charter bus for fans, should their team make it to the Saturday?

The final has been scheduled to be televised @ 2 pm Saturday; working with that, it was felt that it was too soon after Friday nite semis; so, a better choice would be to have the semis on Thursday instead.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on March 13, 2022, 11:37:27 AM
Unfortunate decision in my opinion, not very fan-friendly for those core supporters who actually want to travel to see the game in person.   Basing the schedule on when it can be televised is a bit of an anachronism these days with wide spread streaming.  Just one man's opinion, but Friday/Saturday evening schedules like all the tournament games that lead to this point would make more sense, be better for the student athlete and better for the fans that need to travel, take time from work, and so forth.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 13, 2022, 11:41:21 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 13, 2022, 11:37:27 AM
Unfortunate decision in my opinion, not very fan-friendly for those core supporters who actually want to travel to see the game in person.   Basing the schedule on when it can be televised is a bit of an anachronism these days with wide spread streaming.  Just one man's opinion, but Friday/Saturday evening schedules like all the tournament games that lead to this point would make more sense, be better for the student athlete and better for the fans that need to travel, take time from work, and so forth.

The NCAA is paying CBS for the airtime, so there's parity with the men's game. Evidently this was the only time available.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on March 13, 2022, 11:48:17 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 13, 2022, 11:41:21 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 13, 2022, 11:37:27 AM
Unfortunate decision in my opinion, not very fan-friendly for those core supporters who actually want to travel to see the game in person.   Basing the schedule on when it can be televised is a bit of an anachronism these days with wide spread streaming.  Just one man's opinion, but Friday/Saturday evening schedules like all the tournament games that lead to this point would make more sense, be better for the student athlete and better for the fans that need to travel, take time from work, and so forth.

The NCAA is paying CBS for the airtime, so there's parity with the men's game. Evidently this was the only time available.

Not surprised, I assumed it was at least partially about the NCAA and money.  Again just my opinion, but televising especially when you have to pay for it and it creates a bad schedule is completely out of date.  It's not as if we in D3 are accustomed to seeing our games on broadcast television.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Dutchfan on March 13, 2022, 11:52:54 AM
Thursday's schedule is out.

5:00 PM
Amherst
UW-Whitewater

7:30 PM
Hope
Trine
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: pointlem on March 13, 2022, 03:52:31 PM
Quote from: ronk on March 13, 2022, 11:15:24 AM
Quote from: pointlem on March 13, 2022, 08:58:25 AM
Quote from: pointlem on February 28, 2022, 05:04:41 PM
Knocking on wood . . . it's interesting that this season's 4th Hope v. Trine game ( ;D) is scheduled for Thursday, March 17th (i.e., the tournament semi on Thursday, two days before the Saturday championship) . . . meaning another day for student-athletes to be away from classes, and surely fewer fans willing to commit the extra day of travel with a dead day in between. Not a wise NCAA decision?
So great for Hope and Trine both to deservedly make it to the Final Four, as the Massey #1 and #2 teams. I'm still wondering what the thinking was behind the scheduling, with the time away it adds for DIII student athletes and the impediment to fans coming to Pitt for a Thursday game. Perhaps both school's AD's could plan a possible day-trip charter bus for fans, should their team make it to the Saturday?

The final has been scheduled to be televised @ 2 pm Saturday; working with that, it was felt that it was too soon after Friday nite semis; so, a better choice would be to have the semis on Thursday instead.
Thanks, Ronk. The CBS Sports Network broadcast is nice. But the rationale for a less student- and fan-friendly no-Friday policy seems questionable . . . said with Iowa today playing Big Ten tournament BB for the fourth consecutive day.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on March 13, 2022, 08:29:31 PM
Got home this afternoon.  Found the Transylvania stream of last night's game and watched the replay on my laptop to see the game from a broadcaster's perspective. He was a very good play by play guy, probably one of the best I've heard at the D3 level.  He had a couple halftime guests to comment on the first 2 quarters of play, one was a former coach at Transylvania who has the court named after him, and the other a writer from d3hoops.com.  They both thought fatigue was a big reason for Transy's shots not falling after the 1st quarter, as they were physically beat up by UMHB the night before, and just don't have the depth of Trine to get their gals a breather.  Another key was having their center get in foul trouble as she is one of their better 3-point shooters after Kellione and Stacey. 

I also watched the 1st quarter of the Hope-NYU game.  NYU might be a pre-season favorite next year as they are very young, all underclassmen in their rotation.  I think Hope is really peaking at the right time.  They are shooting better, especially from the free throw line.  In looking at the stats from the NYU game that was difference in the game as NYU only got to the line twice and Hope was in the 20's.  The Trine loss has certainly sharpened their resolve and I think they are played their best basketball of the year.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on March 13, 2022, 08:43:13 PM
TUAngola, perhaps Transylvania was fatigued but 8 total points in the middle two quarters also has to be a Tribute to the Thunder D.  Really wish Trine and Hope were on the opposite sides of the bracket.  MIAA is assured of a team in the championship game as it stands, but the way both teams are playing I think it would have been good odds that at least one made it anyway.

Coach Mo said after the NYU game that while they don't do formal FT drills in practice, recently the players have had the honor assignment to get up at least 100 per day.  It does appear to be paying off.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 14, 2022, 11:54:40 AM
Taking a quick look at the teams in the Final Four from a couple of different perspectives

Team Stats & last Regional Ranking:


Team     Avg Pos/G   Off Eff (PPP)   Def Eff (PPP)      SOS      vRRO 
Amherst     63.3   0.971   0.776      0.616      7-2
UWW     71.8   0.996   0.775      0.606      6-4
Trine     66.3   1.089   0.711      0.550      5-3
Hope     74.6   1.159   0.649      0.540      6-1

NCAA Tournament History (through 3/12/22):


Team     Win   Loss   %      Final Fours      Championships 
Amherst     51   12   0.810          3
UWW     31   19   0.620          0
Trine     10   3   0.769          0
Hope     45   18   0.714          2

How Massey sees the semi-finals:


Team     Overall Rank   Off Rank   Def Rank      Predicted Score      Win Probability 
Amherst     13   114       53      23%
UWW     3   7   10      61      77%
-------------------     -------------------   -------------------   -------------------      -------------------      -------------------
Trine     2   20       60      25%
Hope     1   1       68      75%
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on March 14, 2022, 12:47:06 PM
Congrats to Hope's Kenedy Schoonveld for being named a Jostens Trophy finalist from among a record number of nominees.

https://www.odaconline.com/jostens/index
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 14, 2022, 12:53:03 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 14, 2022, 12:03:00 PM
Was trying to figure how Massey would favor UWW over Amherst when Amherst has a lower Massey rank - then realized you've got their rank swapped above!  Thanks as always for the analysis.

Thanks for catching that - I fixed it
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: jspiii on March 14, 2022, 07:24:01 PM
Driving up from Florida to Pittsburgh on the way home to Michigan. Got a room 2 miles from the arena for Thursday night. If Hope wins, might be a problem getting a room for Friday night. Just realized Division I Men have a sectional on Friday less than 1/2 mile from the women's arena.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: sac on March 15, 2022, 10:17:08 AM
d3hoops all region team
https://d3hoops.com/awards/all-region/2021-22/region-7-women
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 15, 2022, 12:54:44 PM
MIAA Commissioner Penny Allen Cook is retiring July 1, 2022:

https://www.miaa.org/miaaheadlines/AllenCookRetirement
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: OC_SID on March 15, 2022, 03:18:03 PM
Quote from: jspiii on March 14, 2022, 07:24:01 PM
Driving up from Florida to Pittsburgh on the way home to Michigan. Got a room 2 miles from the arena for Thursday night. If Hope wins, might be a problem getting a room for Friday night. Just realized Division I Men have a sectional on Friday less than 1/2 mile from the women's arena.

One of the reasons why the women's semifinals was moved up one day to Thursday!!
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on March 15, 2022, 03:43:09 PM
Quote from: OC_SID on March 15, 2022, 03:18:03 PM
Quote from: jspiii on March 14, 2022, 07:24:01 PM
Driving up from Florida to Pittsburgh on the way home to Michigan. Got a room 2 miles from the arena for Thursday night. If Hope wins, might be a problem getting a room for Friday night. Just realized Division I Men have a sectional on Friday less than 1/2 mile from the women's arena.

One of the reasons why the women's semifinals was moved up one day to Thursday!!

Also heard the broadcaster didn't want to rustle up the necessary technical staff to televise a Friday women's game given the D1 men were playing on the same date.  Unfortunately it will cause fewer women's fans to be in the seats and more watching the broadcast.  Hmmm
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 15, 2022, 03:59:11 PM
I think "couldn't" is probably more accurate than "didn't want to."
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: pointlem on March 15, 2022, 04:19:39 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 15, 2022, 03:43:09 PM
Quote from: OC_SID on March 15, 2022, 03:18:03 PM
Quote from: jspiii on March 14, 2022, 07:24:01 PM
Driving up from Florida to Pittsburgh on the way home to Michigan. Got a room 2 miles from the arena for Thursday night. If Hope wins, might be a problem getting a room for Friday night. Just realized Division I Men have a sectional on Friday less than 1/2 mile from the women's arena.

One of the reasons why the women's semifinals was moved up one day to Thursday!!

Also heard the broadcaster didn't want to rustle up the necessary technical staff to televise a Friday women's game given the D1 men were playing on the same date.  Unfortunately it will cause fewer women's fans to be in the seats and more watching the broadcast.  Hmmm
Sounds like not a great idea to schedule DI and DIII playoffs for the same city at the same time?
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 15, 2022, 06:37:44 PM
I see the video link still on the Women's page. Is that still where to catch the game, or after reading above about CBS, is there a different service to watch the games this weekend?
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 15, 2022, 06:40:17 PM
Quote from: pointlem on March 15, 2022, 04:19:39 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 15, 2022, 03:43:09 PM
Quote from: OC_SID on March 15, 2022, 03:18:03 PM
Quote from: jspiii on March 14, 2022, 07:24:01 PM
Driving up from Florida to Pittsburgh on the way home to Michigan. Got a room 2 miles from the arena for Thursday night. If Hope wins, might be a problem getting a room for Friday night. Just realized Division I Men have a sectional on Friday less than 1/2 mile from the women's arena.

One of the reasons why the women's semifinals was moved up one day to Thursday!!

Also heard the broadcaster didn't want to rustle up the necessary technical staff to televise a Friday women's game given the D1 men were playing on the same date.  Unfortunately it will cause fewer women's fans to be in the seats and more watching the broadcast.  Hmmm
Sounds like not a great idea to schedule DI and DIII playoffs for the same city at the same time?

D-III had this spot claimed in April 2017, but I don't think that's enough to keep D-I men from doing whatever they want, whenever they want.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 15, 2022, 06:40:43 PM
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on March 15, 2022, 06:37:44 PM
I see the video link still on the Women's page. Is that still where to catch the game, or after reading above about CBS, is there a different service to watch the games this weekend?

Just had my question answered by Alan Babbitt.
Thursday on NCAA.com with the link on the Athletics website. Saturday is on the CBS Sports Network. They are working to confirm if will be available to live stream.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on March 15, 2022, 07:06:31 PM
Listened to a little bit of the Hoopsville podcast tonight that aired yesterday.  They had snippets of each post-game press conference of the winning teams from last Saturday. Interesting sound bite from Coach Morehouse stating that NYU was the best team Hope has played all year.  A jab at Trine? Or just caught up in the moment of a big win?  I doubt it made it to Trine's bulletin board though.         
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on March 15, 2022, 07:44:52 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on March 15, 2022, 07:06:31 PM
Listened to a little bit of the Hoopsville podcast tonight that aired yesterday.  They had snippets of each post-game press conference of the winning teams from last Saturday. Interesting sound bite from Coach Morehouse stating that NYU was the best team Hope has played all year.  A jab at Trine? Or just caught up in the moment of a big win?  I doubt it made it to Trine's bulletin board though.         

I don't think Coach Mo and the team have anything but the utmost respect for Trine.  Suspect it was just caught up ion the moment or, most likely, just paying respect to the team they just beat.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: pointlem on March 15, 2022, 09:23:26 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 15, 2022, 06:40:17 PM

D-III had this spot claimed in April 2017, but I don't think that's enough to keep D-I men from doing whatever they want, whenever they want.
Well, that would explain it (and it also means the unfortunate Thursday scheduling wasn't b/c they couldn't find staff to televise a Friday women's game with the D1 men playing nearby).
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 15, 2022, 09:30:56 PM
Actually, I believe it was nonetheless.

D-III had its location picked out in 2017. That doesn't mean it couldn't flex the date if it had to based on availability of a TV crew on Saturday. (What we've been told is the issue is Saturday, that the 2 p.m. timeslot was the one they could get from CBS Sports Network, and that playing the title game that early meant either playing Friday semis at 2 and 4, or Thursday at a normal evening time.)
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: AlwaysHope on March 15, 2022, 10:01:43 PM
Is it asking too much that Hope College could possibly win two NCAA D-3 Championships in four days:

For the second year in a row, the Hope College hockey team is champion of the Division III club hockey world. The Flying Dutchmen defeated Michigan 2-1 in the ACHA Division III Tournament championship game on Tuesday in St. Louis to claim  their second consecutive ACHA title. And they accomplished it with a freshman goalie.  They ended their season with a record of 34 - 1.

But first, a very strong foe for the ladies:  Trine! 
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 16, 2022, 09:27:43 AM
I mean, yes, because the ACHA Division III championship is not an NCAA Division III championship -- but that hockey tournament is pretty impressive!
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on March 16, 2022, 10:30:07 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 16, 2022, 09:27:43 AM
I mean, yes, because the ACHA Division III championship is not an NCAA Division III championship -- but that hockey tournament is pretty impressive!

Hope's club hockey team gets quite a bit of support, evidenced by their back to back national titles. With all those resources, I really wish they'd go varsity with it.

As is often the case though, one of the biggest hurdles would be adding a women's hockey or equivalent team. And lets not diminish the massive leap that moving from ACHA Division 3 to NCAA Division 3 would be. Perhaps a more realistic hope would be moving to ACHA D2 or D1.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 16, 2022, 04:55:52 PM
Was just comparing some Hope stats and found some items of interest.  I looked at NCAA tournament games vs Regular Season (including MIAA Tournament).  I expected to see some stats decline a bit during the NCAA - given the high level of competition - and I indeed found that for some:

          NCAA Tournament Avg - Regular Season Avg
FG% ----------.463 ----------------------.473
3FG% ---------.344 ---------------------.379
FT% -----------.660 ---------------------.677
Reb ------------36.3 -------------------- 40.5
Ast -------------14.5 -------------------- 16.7
Blks ------------ 2.5 ---------------------- 5.0
Steals ---------- 9.8 --------------------- 17.8

and some that were really consistent:

FGA ------------ 68.0 -------------------- 68.0
3FGA ----------- 22.5 -------------------- 21.7
Points ---------- 86.3 -------------------- 86.5

and some areas of improvement over the regular season

TO -------------- 10.8 -------------------- 14.9
A/TO ------------ 1.35 -------------------- 1.12


Lastly, Kenedy Schoonveld has played some really excellent basketball the last 4 games. Yes her minutes have increased from 18.8 per game to 27.5, yet her stats have increased at a better "rate":

FG% ------------ .531 -------------------- .498
3FG% ---------- .550 --------------------- .413
FT% ------------ .800 -------------------- .838
Reb ------------- 5.0 ---------------------  3.8
A/TO ------------ 4.50 -------------------  3.47
PTS -------------- 17.8 -------------------  10.2

Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 16, 2022, 07:29:50 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on March 16, 2022, 10:30:07 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 16, 2022, 09:27:43 AM
I mean, yes, because the ACHA Division III championship is not an NCAA Division III championship -- but that hockey tournament is pretty impressive!

Hope's club hockey team gets quite a bit of support, evidenced by their back to back national titles. With all those resources, I really wish they'd go varsity with it.

As is often the case though, one of the biggest hurdles would be adding a women's hockey or equivalent team. And lets not diminish the massive leap that moving from ACHA Division 3 to NCAA Division 3 would be. Perhaps a more realistic hope would be moving to ACHA D2 or D1.

Perhaps. I don't know how the competition compares at different levels of club hockey but what I do know is that we need some more D-III ice hockey programs in Michigan, Ohio and Indiana to help bridge the geographical gap between the two regions in D-III.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 17, 2022, 08:23:49 AM
Final Four game day!!!

Amherst versus UWW:



Offense     % 2pt   % 3pt      % FT
Amherst     41.7   31.9      69.5
UWW     43.3   31.5      68.5
------             
Defense     % 2pt   % 3pt     
Amherst     34.3   23.6     
UWW     39.3   30.2     
------             
Rebounding     Team   Opp      Margin
Amherst     40.7   36.8      3.9
UWW     41.3   36.3      5.0
------             
Scoring     Team   Opp      Margin
Amherst     61.6   49      12.6
UWW     71.7   55.5      16.2
------             
3 point shooting     Made/game        
Amherst     4.9        
UWW     6.2        
------             
Ball Control     Stl/game   TO/Game      OppTO/Game
Amherst     7.4   13.6      15.5
UWW     12.8   15.2      22.7
------             
Ball Control     Asst/game   A/TO      Blks/game
Amherst     13.5   0.99      5.3
UWW     14.9   0.98      4.8
------             

Hope versus Trine:



Offense     % 2pt   % 3pt      % FT
Hope     51.8   37.4      67.4
Trine     48.3   34.6      70.1
------             
Defense     % 2pt   % 3pt     
Hope     35.4   25.4     
Trine     37.2   22.2     
------             
Rebounding     Team   Opp      Margin
Hope     44   33.9      10.1
Trine     40.4   34.6      5.8
------             
Scoring     Team   Opp      Margin
Hope     86.5   48.4      38.1
Trine     72.5   47      25.5
------             
3 point shooting     Made/game        
Hope     8.2        
Trine     7.7        
------             
Ball Control     Stl/game   TO/Game      OppTO/Game
Hope     16.8   14.6      25.7
Trine     9.6   13.2      19.4
------             
Ball Control     Asst/game   A/TO      Blks/game
Hope     16.4   1.12      4.6
Trine     16   1.21      3.6
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 17, 2022, 08:39:39 AM
Looking back at the 3 previous Hope v Trine games from this season, I compared the 2 Hope victories to the 1 Trine vistory and noted the following:

Hope Wins

Shooting (FG/3FG/FT)
Hope  .404 / .358 / .553
Trine  .330 / .310 / .788

Assists
Hope 11.5
Trine   7.5

Steals
Hope 10.5
Trine   7.5

Trine Win

Shooting (FG/3FG/FT)
Hope  .270 / .150 / .658
Trine  .490 / .455 / .667

Assists
Hope   6
Trine  17

Steals
Hope 17
Trine  11


Now that may not be surprising, but those are the only stats that varied to any great extent from game to game.  Food for thought...


Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Dutchfan on March 17, 2022, 04:59:58 PM
Statistical leaders for the playoffs (Final Four teams only)

#   Player                  Team            Points
20   Kenedy Schoonveld   Hope           71
33   Aleah Grundahl         Whitewater  64
13   Kacie Carolla            Whitewater   56
22   Sydney Muller          Hope            49
24   Dani Valdez              Amherst       47
11   Tara Bieniewicz         Trine            46
05   Olivia Voskuil            Hope           46
15   Ella McKinney           Hope           46
13   Gabrielle Zaffro         Amherst      42
14   Kate Majerus            Hope           39


#   Player                      Team       3-Point FG
11   Tara Bieniewicz          Trine           13
13   Kacie Carolla             Whitewater  12
20   Kenedy Schoonveld    Hope          10
14   Kate Majerus             Hope           9
03   Yssa Sto. Domingo     Whitewater  9
14   Rebekah Schumacher Whitewater  9
20   Courtney Resch         Amherst       8
15   Ella McKinney            Hope           5
13   Gabrielle Zaffro         Amherst       5
00   Alyssa Argyle            Trine            4


#   Player                    Team            FG%
23   Sam Underhill         Trine            .684
33   Hannah Smith         Hope           .556
05   Olivia Voskuil          Hope            .543
03   Yssa Sto. Domingo  Whitewater   .542
20   Rachel Stewart       Trine             .538
20   Kenedy Schoonveld Hope            .531
33   Aleah Grundahl       Whitewater   .531
40   Johanna Taylor       Whitewater   .519
14   Kate Majerus          Hope            .500
02   Reeya Patel           Amherst        .500


#   Player                          Team          3FG%
20   Courtney Resch             Amherst       .667
03   Yssa Sto. Domingo        Whitewater .600
13   Kacie Carolla                Whitewater .571
20   Kenedy Schoonveld       Hope         .500
14   Kate Majerus                Hope         .474
13   Gabrielle Zaffro            Amherst     .385
11   Tara Bieniewicz            Trine          .361
14   Rebekah Schumacher   Whitewater .360
30   Lauren Pelosi               Amherst     .333
00   Alyssa Argyle               Trine          .308


#   Player                     Team           FT%
05   Kaylee Argyle          Trine            .929
03   Makayla Ardis          Trine            .875
13   Kacie Carolla           Whitewater   .857
20   Kenedy Schoonveld  Hope           .800
02   Meg Morehouse       Hope            .750
22   Sydney Muller         Hope            .739
24   Dani Valdez            Amherst        .739
33   Aleah Grundahl       Whitewater    .706
13   Gabrielle Zaffro      Amherst         .700
11   Jade DuVal             Amherst        .636


#   Player                      Team      Rebounds
40   Johanna Taylor         Whitewater  37
24   Dani Valdez             Amherst       35
33   Aleah Grundahl        Whitewater  26
13   Gabrielle Zaffro        Amherst      26
05   Olivia Voskuil           Hope           26
44   Kelsy Taylor             Trine           24
22   Sydney Muller          Hope          22
33   Hannah Smith          Hope          21
20   Kenedy Schoonveld  Hope           20
11   Jade DuVal              Amherst      19
03   Makayla Ardis          Trine           19
13   Kacie Carolla           Whitewater  19
11   Tara Bieniewicz        Trine           19


#   Player                      Team       Assists
13   Gabrielle Zaffro        Amherst      20
40   Johanna Taylor         Whitewater  17
13   Kacie Carolla            Whitewater  14
12   Kasey DeSmit           Hope          11
05   Kaylee Argyle           Trine           11
03   Yssa Sto. Domingo   Whitewater  10
20   Kenedy Schoonveld  Hope            9
03   Makayla Ardis          Trine            9
24   Dani Valdez             Amherst       8
22   Sydney Muller          Hope           8
05   Olivia Voskuil           Hope           8


#   Player                    Team     Turnovers
05   Kaylee Argyle          Trine            0
21   Maya Cwalina          Whitewater   1
20   Kenedy Schoonveld  Hope           2
33   Hannah Smith         Hope            2
05   Olivia Voskuil           Hope           3
14   Kate Majerus           Hope           3
20   Courtney Resch       Amherst       3
11   Jade DuVal              Amherst      3
11   Maggie Trautsch      Whitewater   3
12   Kasey DeSmit          Hope           4
04   Claire Baguley         Hope           4
00   Alyssa Argyle          Trine            4


#   Player                         Team         Steals
03   Yssa Sto. Domingo       Whitewater  11
20   Kenedy Schoonveld      Hope            8
13   Gabrielle Zaffro            Amherst       6
13   Kacie Carolla               Whitewater   6
02   Meg Morehouse           Hope            6
33   Aleah Grundahl           Whitewater    6
05   Olivia Voskuil              Hope             5
14   Rebekah Schumacher  Whitewater    5
20   Rachel Stewart            Trine             5
22   Sydney Muller             Hope             5
12   Kasey DeSmit             Hope             5

Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on March 17, 2022, 09:32:45 PM
Congratulations Trine on a great season, what a great run!  Good luck to Hope in the Championship Game Saturday!  Go get that trophy!!
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: ronk on March 17, 2022, 09:43:42 PM
 Rachel Stewart made a lot of big plays in that 2nd half comeback.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on March 17, 2022, 09:45:00 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on March 17, 2022, 09:32:45 PM
Congratulations Trine on a great season, what a great run!  Good luck to Hope in the Championship Game Saturday!  Go get that trophy!!

Even when Hope had a seemingly comfortable lead in the 3rd, you just knew Trine would make a run.  Not saying Hope will win Saturday, but I'm sure my heart couldn't take another game vs the Thunder.   Really sad that either of these teams had to lose but both represented the MIAA so well!  Congrats to Trine for a historic year.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on March 17, 2022, 10:21:50 PM
This Trine team was truly spectacular. What a comeback and what a year. Andy Rang is a heck of a coach.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 18, 2022, 09:06:16 AM
Great game- what a true rivalry battle.  Hope goes up by 18 and my wife and I both said, this isn't over, and we knew Trine would come back.  Credit to both teams on a really tough game - but then that's what you expect when IMHO the two best teams in the country play each other for the 4th time in a season. 

Credit to Trine and Coach Rang.  I thought him switching his team to a zone D a couple of times during their comeback were key in making Hope uncomfortable.  Led to several shot clock violations or desperate attempts to avoid the violation.  I was a bit surprised the broadcast team never picked up on that - it seemed rather pivital to me. 

And credit to Coach Mo for the excellent play up 2 with 30 seconds left - getting Voskuil the ball dead center of the lane for a nice turnaround jumper - money!

I know the utter disappointment the Trine team must be feeling, but they should be VERY proud of their season, their first trip to the final four, and celebrate all those accomplishments!

Hope team - you got one more to go.  All those hours of off season work and practices and hard work - let's use them one more time.  Go get that Natty and beat those cheeseheads!!
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: pointlem on March 18, 2022, 11:34:42 AM
Kudos to Hope and Trine for making it to championship day as the Massey computer power ranking #1 and #2 teams, with each of their four games played to nail-biting finishes decided in the last minute. (Click on image below.)

And if Hope and Trine are near dead even, Whitewater is close behind. To become national champions, Hope will need to defeat the top two teams out of 400+, with Whitewater ready to challenge Hope with more size than it has faced in recent games.

Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Shamrock on March 18, 2022, 12:02:44 PM
As an outsider that was a fun game to watch.  Very well played by both sides.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 18, 2022, 12:55:30 PM
Taking a look at the two teams playing for the Championship tomorrow:



Offense     % 2pt   % 3pt      % FT
Hope     51.8   36.7      67.5
UWW     42.9   31.5      69.0
-------------     -------------   -------------      -------------
Defense     % 2pt   % 3pt     
Hope     35.3   25.6     
UWW     39.1   29.9     
-------------     -------------   -------------      -------------
Rebounding     Team   Opp      Margin
Hope     43.8   33.8      10
UWW     41.3   36.4      4.9
-------------     -------------   -------------      -------------
Scoring     Team   Opp      Margin
Hope     85.5   48.5      37.0
UWW     71.1   55.3      15.8
-------------     -------------   -------------      -------------
3 point shooting     Made/game        
Hope     8.0        
UWW     6.2        
-------------     -------------   -------------      -------------
Ball Control     Stl/game   TO/Game      OppTO/Game
Hope     16.6   14.7      25.5
UWW     12.5   15.1      22.3
-------------     -------------   -------------      -------------
Ball Control     Asst/game   A/TO      Blks/game
Hope     16.1   1.1      4.8
UWW     14.8   0.98      4.7
-------------     -------------   -------------      -------------
Efficiency     Poss/Game   Off Eff      Def Eff
Hope     74.3   1.151      0.653
UWW     71.6   0.993      0.766
-------------     -------------   -------------      -------------
Massey     Rank   Score      Probability
Hope     1   73      79%
UWW     3   63      21%
-------------     -------------   -------------      -------------

These two teams have played 2 common opponents this season:

Benedictine:

Hope won by 49
UWW won by 42

Calvin:

Hope won by 49, 29, and 26
UWW won by 10
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 18, 2022, 04:09:36 PM
Comparison of the expected players in tomorrows championship game (stats are game averages for the season):




Hope Starters     Minutes   PPG   FG% - 3FG% - FT%      Rebounds      Ast - Stl - Blks 
Kasey DeSmit (SR)  5-6  -  G      17.7   5.7   0.413 - 0.370 - 0.700      0.9      2.3 - 2.0 - 0.1
Kenedy Schoonveld (SR-5)  5-10  -  G      20.3   11.3   0.504 - 0.429 - 0.830      3.9      2.1 - 1.6 - 0.5
Sydney Muller (SR-5)  5-11  -  G      19.8   9.1   0.466 - 0.341 - 0.699      4.1      2.2 - 1.3 - 0.2
Kate Majerus (SR)  5-11  -  F      18.0   6.6   0.527 - 0.485 - 0.500      3.3      0.8 - 0.9 - 0.4
Olivia Voskuil (SR-5)  6-3  -  C      18.8   9.9   0.485 - 0.389 - 0.658      6.2      1.5 - 2.5 - 2.1
Subs -----------------------------------------------                      
Meg Morehouse (JR)  5--7  -  G      15.6   6.0   0.476 - 0.372 - 0.714      1.9      1.7 - 1.8 - 0.1
Claire Baguley (JR)  5-11  -  F      16.2   6.8   0.469 - 0.246 - 0.698      2.4      1.2 - 1.0 - 0.0
Ella McKinney (JR)  5-10  -  G      17.2   8.4   0.453 - 0.337 - 0.709      2.2      1.8 - 1.3 - 0.1
Hannah Smith (SR)  5-10  -  F      15.4   5.3   0.528 - 0.316 - 0.682      4.9      0.5 - 1.5 - 0.5
TEAM        85.5   0.470 - 0.369 - 0.675      43.8      16.1 - 16.6 - 4.8 





UWW Starters     Minutes   PPG   FG% - 3FG% - FT%      Rebounds      Ast - Stl - Blks 
Yssa Sto. Domnigo (SR)  5-4  -  G      21.9   4.6   0.336 - 0.329 - 0.688      2.3      2.0 - 1.8 - 0.1
Kacie Carollo (FR)  5-9  -  G      22.6   8.6   0.359 - 0.350 - 0.804      4.6      1.8 - 1.4 - 0.3
Rebekah Schumacher (SR)  5-9  -  G      19.8   8.6   0.316 - 0.311 - 0.792      2.7      1.7 - 1.6 - 0.5
Aleah Grundahl (JR)  6-0  -  F      29.6   16.4   0.506 - 0.326 - 0.735      4.7      1.6 - 2.2 - 0.3
Johanna Taylor (SR)  6-2  -  C      26.1   8.5   0.459 - 0.000 - 0.473      7.9      2.9 - 1.0 - 1.9
Subs -----------------------------------------------                      
Maggie Truatsch (SO)  5-10 -  G      28.7   7.2   0.313 - 0.286 - 0.704      3.5      1.1 - 1.4 - 0.2
Veronica Kieres (SR)  5-8  -  G      20.3   5.8   0.341 - 0.234 - 0.625      4.1      1.6 - 1.8 - 0.2
Abby Belschner (JR)  6-0  -  F      14.3   4.9   0.422 - 0.000 - 0.591      3.2      0.8 - 0.4 - 0.9
TEAM        71.2   0.396 - 0.314 - 0.690      41.4      14.8 - 12.6 - 4.7 
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: RogK on March 19, 2022, 12:50:19 PM
For the season, Whitewater has made 650/1514 2FGs for 42.9%.
Hope has (have, if you're British) made 762/1471 2FGs for 51.8%.
Both have played 32 games.
I'll bravely predict that today's game will start tied 0-0.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on March 19, 2022, 02:02:43 PM
Can't find video stream of the game.  >:(
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: hopefan on March 19, 2022, 02:06:02 PM
it is exclusively on CBSsports network... a part of my spectrum package... channel 139 on my package...
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: RogK on March 19, 2022, 02:21:13 PM
Same here, TUAngola.
I guess we can thank the NCAA for this blunder.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: pointlem on March 19, 2022, 02:59:56 PM
HOW TO WATCH THE GAME:
The NCAA Division III Women's Basketball Championship game will be broadcast by the CBS Sports Network (on TV or online). The CBS Sports Network is carried by a number of cable providers, but you may want to make sure that you have access ahead of the game.

    AT&T U-Verse (channel 643)
    DIRECTV (channel 221)
    DISH Network (channel 158)
    Spectrum (channel 224)
    Xfinity/Comcast (channel 734)

It is also available on a number of subscription-based streaming platforms:

    AT&T TV
    Fubo TV
    Hulu Live
    YouTube TV
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on March 19, 2022, 03:27:35 PM
I have DISH but CBS Sports Network is not a part of my package.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: RogK on March 19, 2022, 04:06:42 PM
thanks pointlem ... I don't have any of the pay tv stuff ... there should have been a free webcast like every tourney game before ... for every stray viewer they added via today's CBS Sports set up, I'm sure they omitted several
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on March 19, 2022, 04:28:10 PM
Yea, congrats to Hope, well deserved win!  Showed why they are the best team in the nation!
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: pointlem on March 19, 2022, 04:54:08 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on March 19, 2022, 04:28:10 PM
Yea, congrats to Hope, well deserved win!  Showed why they are the best team in the nation!
And after this weekend, we can surely look forward to Hope/Trine being #1/#2 in the final poll TUAngola. Kudos to both teams in what was an historic MIAA women's BB year.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on March 21, 2022, 09:13:47 PM
Alright... I've had some time to revel and digest how good this championship feels.

Now on to the next one! I kid, there will be plenty of time to still bask in this one. But I do want to say that although Kenedy, Olivia, and Sydney are surely gone, and Kasey, Kate, and Hannah are most likely gone, this team is still poised to be VERY good next season. A starting 5 with Meg, Ella, Claire, a healthy Savanah, and maybe Jada? will still be very formidable.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: monsoon on March 21, 2022, 11:42:23 PM
Final Top 25 is out. Hope obviously #1, and Trine a very deserving #2. Pretty nice finish for the MIAA.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on March 22, 2022, 08:39:52 AM
Quote from: monsoon on March 21, 2022, 11:42:23 PM
and Trine a very deserving #2.

Surprised and so happy. It was the right call but I was assuming the finals loser would get the votes for #2.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on March 22, 2022, 12:25:45 PM
Congrats to Hope's Kenedy Schoonveld for winning both the D3Hoops and WBCA DIII National Player of the Year awards.  NYU's Meg Barber won the WBCA DIII Coach of the Year award.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on March 22, 2022, 05:11:29 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 22, 2022, 12:25:45 PM
Congrats to Hope's Kenedy Schoonveld for winning both the D3Hoops and WBCA DIII National Player of the Year awards.  NYU's Meg Barber won the WBCA DIII Coach of the Year award.
Trine's Tara Bieniewicz also 1st team WBCA honors.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on March 22, 2022, 05:17:52 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on March 22, 2022, 05:11:29 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 22, 2022, 12:25:45 PM
Congrats to Hope's Kenedy Schoonveld for winning both the D3Hoops and WBCA DIII National Player of the Year awards.  NYU's Meg Barber won the WBCA DIII Coach of the Year award.
Trine's Tara Bieniewicz also 1st team WBCA honors.

Great year for WBB in the MIAA. 

So glad the voters didn't go the customary route and pick the other finalist as #2.  Trine pinned that lone loss on Hope and it was clear in their other 3 games that Trine was a tougher opponent than anyone else Hope played all year.  Don't mean to slight UWW or any of the other teams but it seemed clear that Trine was #2.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on March 22, 2022, 05:25:59 PM
An early look at a probable starting 5 for Trine next season:  PG Makayla Ardis, SG Alyssa Argyle, F Sophie Sloneker, F Katie Sloneker, and F Sam Underhill.  If we go with a smaller lineup I would think G Sidney Wagner will start over one of the Sloneker's.  But I think Coach Rang will not play Ardis and Wagner much together as they are our 2 best ball handlers coming back.  Others who will get substantial more playing time will be G Sierra Hinds, G Chelsie Giesige (who was injured most of the year) and F Brooke Brauher.  We'll need a couple of the other freshman to develop over the summer and hope some of the incoming freshman will be able to fill out the rotation.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 23, 2022, 10:12:24 AM
Agreed on the voters geting it right - Trine was CLEARLY the best team Hope faced all year.  I truly hope the Thunder team all realize what a special team they had and enjoyed their journey all year long.  I know that as a Hope fan, those games versus Trine were the ones that I made me nervous all year. 

The MIAA finished the year ranked 7th by Massey.  Obviously having Hope (#1) and Trine (#2) makes a huge impact, but that is also a credit to Calvin (#22), Albion (#41), and Alma (#79).  5 teams in the top 100 is pretty good stuff, but the others Adrian (#238), St Mary's (#254), Kalamazoo (#349) and Olivet (#356) put the league at #7.  (The #1 conference was the WIAC - with all 8 teams in the top 64!). 

Calvin (who was regionally ranked) really "suffered" from the accumulated losses against top teams giving them a 19-8 record.  They lost 3 times to #1 Hope, 2 times to #2 Trine, and 1 time to #3 UWW.   Their other 2 losses were to #20 DePauw and #41 Albion.  As someone shared on Twitter - Calvin was 19-2 against teams not in the final four this year.  Would have liked to see how far they could have gone in the tournament.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: sac on March 23, 2022, 01:02:31 PM
Hope commits I've run across:

Colleen Hegewald  5-10 F  Traverse City St. Francis
Sidney Vis  5-10 F  G.R. South Christian
Kendall Sietsema 6-1 F  home school
Karissa Cochran   5-11 F    DeWitt
Sophie Canen 5-10 G  Saline
Sarah Ebel 5-10 F  Brighton
Karsen Karlblom  5-11  G   Prarie View HS, Crystal Lake IL
Lauren Nemens  6-0 G/F  Sterling Heights Stevenson
Lauren Leach  G  Angola, IN
Ally Dominiak 5-5 G  Bishop England HS, Charleston, SC


One local to me one for Trine
Erin Sherwood  5-11 F  Dansville
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 23, 2022, 03:11:53 PM
Quote from: sac on March 23, 2022, 01:02:31 PM
Hope commits I've run across:

Colleen Hegewald  5-10 F  Traverse City St. Francis
Sidney Vis  5-10 F  G.R. South Christian
Kendall Sietsema 6-1 F  home school
Karissa Cochran   5-11 F    DeWitt
Sophie Canen 5-10 G  Saline
Sarah Ebel 5-10 F  Brighton
Karsen Karlblom  5-11  G   Prarie View HS, Crystal Lake IL
Lauren Nemens  6-0 G/F  Sterling Heights Stevenson
Lauren Leach 5-11 G  Angola, IN
Ally Dominiak 5-5 G  Bishop England HS, Charleston, SC


Impressive list (updated Lauren Leach and one more added below). 

Keegan Kaizer 5-9 PG - Floyd Central HS, Floyds Knobs IN
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 23, 2022, 04:05:13 PM
With the season over (I'm still grinning ear to ear of course) I thought I'd share a few career stat rankings for our seniors - along with their career W-L record (for games in which they appeared) 

Sydney Muller (89-6):
3FG% - 0.383 - 10th

Kasey DeSmit (101-6):
3FG Made - 109 - 11th

Kate Majerus (91-2):
3FG Made - 91 - 13th
3FG% - 0.425 - 2nd

Olivia Voskuil (130-8):
Points - 1145 - 11th
FG Made - 458 - 9th
Rebounds - 719 - 5th
Blocks - 254 - 1st
Steals - 246 - 2nd
Games - 138 - 1st

Kenedy Schoonveld (130-8):
Points - 1479 - 2nd
FG Made - 559 - 4th
3FG Made - 167 - 5th
3FG% - 0.400 - 5th
FT% - 0.800 - 7th
Assists - 263 - 10th
A/TO - 1.96 - 2nd
Steals - 196 - 9th
Games 138 - 1st


And lastly - I just noticed that the national championship game was Coach Mo's 750th game at the helm.  His record is now a whopping 659-91 - 0.879
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: AlwaysHope on March 23, 2022, 04:25:22 PM
Sydney Vis, the Hope recruit from South Christian and a 1,000 point scorer in High School, is 6'2" according to MLive.

https://www.mlive.com/highschoolsports/2022/02/south-christian-senior-keeps-promise-reaches-career-milestone.html

After losing Voskuil, we also add 6'3" sophomore Raven Jemison who was injured for most of this year.  Plus we get Feenstra (6'1") back from injury and 6'1" Courtney Lee after completing her freshman year.  There are other unproven six footers from the JV team and incoming freshmen. 

But we will miss Vosk!

Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: pointlem on March 23, 2022, 05:08:56 PM
Quote from: AlwaysHope on March 23, 2022, 04:25:22 PM
Sydney Vis, the Hope recruit from South Christian and a 1,000 point scorer in High School, is 6'2" according to MLive.
If only MLive is right . . . though other sources confirm she is 5' 10" (or 5' 11") . . . but also that she's a super player and a great fit for the Hope program. Looks like an excellent group of incoming players to replace the current large classes of seniors and seniors-to-be. Perhaps in four years we'll be celebrating the achievements of another stellar senior group (though yes, it may be some time before we see another defensive post presence like Olivia).

https://www.wilkinsreport.com/page/show/6713624-michigan-class-of-2022-commit-list
https://www.maxpreps.com/athlete/sydney-vis/Udj07Q8jEeqAzqREozo6lw/videos.htm?videoid=0fbfab6c-2c52-4d82-9928-0d848e1ba802
https://westmidrive.leagueapps.com/clubteams/1962370/teamRoster?teamId=3512491
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on March 23, 2022, 06:02:49 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 23, 2022, 03:11:53 PM
Quote from: sac on March 23, 2022, 01:02:31 PM
Hope commits I've run across:

Colleen Hegewald  5-10 F  Traverse City St. Francis
Sidney Vis  5-10 F  G.R. South Christian
Kendall Sietsema 6-1 F  home school
Karissa Cochran   5-11 F    DeWitt
Sophie Canen 5-10 G  Saline
Sarah Ebel 5-10 F  Brighton
Karsen Karlblom  5-11  G   Prarie View HS, Crystal Lake IL
Lauren Nemens  6-0 G/F  Sterling Heights Stevenson
Lauren Leach 5-11 G  Angola, IN
Ally Dominiak 5-5 G  Bishop England HS, Charleston, SC


Impressive list (updated Lauren Leach and one more added below). 

Keegan Kaizer 5-9 PG - Floyd Central HS, Floyds Knobs IN
That's an impressive recruiting list for Hope.  What I see is that 10 of the 11 girls are 5'9 or taller.  Having longer guards is great to have at this level. Disappointed Keegan chose Hope over Trine, the recruiting battle came down to those 2 schools.  Good get for Hope going to far southern Indiana down by Louisville to snag her.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: calvin_grad on March 23, 2022, 08:24:22 PM
Quote from: pointlem on March 23, 2022, 05:08:56 PM
Quote from: AlwaysHope on March 23, 2022, 04:25:22 PM
Sydney Vis, the Hope recruit from South Christian and a 1,000 point scorer in High School, is 6'2" according to MLive.
If only MLive is right . . . though other sources confirm she is 5' 10" (or 5' 11") . . . but also that she's a super player and a great fit for the Hope program. Looks like an excellent group of incoming players to replace the current large classes of seniors and seniors-to-be. Perhaps in four years we'll be celebrating the achievements of another stellar senior group (though yes, it may be some time before we see another defensive post presence like Olivia).

Other sources are right.  If Syd Vis is 6'-2", I'm 6'-7".  Trust me, I'm not.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 24, 2022, 08:47:35 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on March 23, 2022, 06:02:49 PM
That's an impressive recruiting list for Hope.  What I see is that 10 of the 11 girls are 5'9 or taller.  Having longer guards is great to have at this level. Disappointed Keegan chose Hope over Trine, the recruiting battle came down to those 2 schools.  Good get for Hope going to far southern Indiana down by Louisville to snag her.

Longer guards - yeah, they kind of did OK for us this year - Schoonveld, Muller, McKinney, Baguley  - plus the two FR from this years team Tarrant and Kurncz.  While having size inside is important, I really feel like the size of your guards enables you to do so much more - switching on everything for example. 
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 24, 2022, 03:59:31 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on March 22, 2022, 12:25:45 PM
Congrats to Hope's Kenedy Schoonveld for winning both the D3Hoops and WBCA DIII National Player of the Year awards. 

And now we can add Josten's Trophy Recipient to that list - pretty inpressive bunch of awards!!!

https://odac.prestosports.com/jostens/2022/releases/032422-jostens-winners?preview=true
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Shamrock on March 25, 2022, 09:02:33 AM
Congratulations, Kenedy!
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 25, 2022, 09:57:55 AM
Just peaked at the history of the various Player of the Year awards for D3, and Kenedy Schoonveld is the 4th player in history (for either women or men) to pull off the "trifecta" of D3Hoops, WBCA/NABC, and Jostens awards in the same season.  Here is a list of those amazing people who accomplished the trifecta:

2006 - Megan Silva - Randolph-Macon
2009 - Jimmy Bartolotta - MIT
2019 - Madison Temple - Thomas More
2022 - Kenedy Schoonveld - Hope
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: RogK on March 25, 2022, 10:33:42 AM
Somehow, you misspelled Madison and More.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 25, 2022, 10:44:44 AM
Fixed it
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: RogK on March 25, 2022, 03:37:59 PM
A few days ago, the current Thomas More team won the NAIA :
https://www.thomasmoresaints.com/sports/wbkb/2021-22/boxscores/20220322_to00.xml?view=boxscore
Several Dutch names on the Dordt team, which scored more than half of its points in the 4th quarter.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 28, 2022, 08:35:03 AM
Quote from: RogK on March 25, 2022, 03:37:59 PM
A few days ago, the current Thomas More team won the NAIA :
https://www.thomasmoresaints.com/sports/wbkb/2021-22/boxscores/20220322_to00.xml?view=boxscore
Several Dutch names on the Dordt team, which scored more than half of its points in the 4th quarter.
Doordt is a sister school of Calvin.  Northwestern (IA) is a sister school of Hope and is their rival (it's like Hope/Calvin on a slightly different level).  Both are NAIA with the schools 12 miles apart in NW Iowa - a place with a lot of Dutch heritage

As a NW Alum I would be remiss to not end with this....

Friends don't let friends go to Doordt  ;D
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 28, 2022, 08:39:40 AM

Someone needs to direct me to a summary of the political and theological history behind this Hope/Calvin thing. I feel like I'm embarrassingly uninformed about the details.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 28, 2022, 08:47:54 AM
Try this:

https://www.d3hoops.com/columns/features/2018-19/what-makes-the-rivalry

Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 28, 2022, 09:13:06 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 28, 2022, 08:47:54 AM
Try this:

https://www.d3hoops.com/columns/features/2018-19/what-makes-the-rivalry

I mean, like, a history of the denominational squabble. I'm looking to go very deep. I figure there's got to be some place where this is covered, so I don't have to do my own research.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on March 28, 2022, 09:27:22 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 28, 2022, 09:13:06 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 28, 2022, 08:47:54 AM
Try this:

https://www.d3hoops.com/columns/features/2018-19/what-makes-the-rivalry

I mean, like, a history of the denominational squabble. I'm looking to go very deep. I figure there's got to be some place where this is covered, so I don't have to do my own research.

https://schismof1857.wordpress.com/ is a good place to start if you have access to github (most libraries will)

Otherwse, googling the Schism of 1857 and Pillar Church in Holland will get you started on the right path...
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 28, 2022, 10:52:15 AM
Quote from: HOPEful on March 28, 2022, 09:27:22 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 28, 2022, 09:13:06 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 28, 2022, 08:47:54 AM
Try this:

https://www.d3hoops.com/columns/features/2018-19/what-makes-the-rivalry

I mean, like, a history of the denominational squabble. I'm looking to go very deep. I figure there's got to be some place where this is covered, so I don't have to do my own research.

https://schismof1857.wordpress.com/ is a good place to start if you have access to github (most libraries will)

Otherwse, googling the Schism of 1857 and Pillar Church in Holland will get you started on the right path...

Yeah, I need to keep digging, but thanks for the direction. I went to a PCA sponsored high school, so there was always lots of Reformed church rivalry in the air, but as the Wesleyan kid, they all thought I was a heretic, anyway, so I didn't pay much attention.  I did attend a lot of Dordt, Covenant, and Calvin recruiting pitches, though, since you got out of class to attend and they often had snacks.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: RogK on March 28, 2022, 01:24:19 PM
I thought that schism was caused by a guy who disrupted a Sunday morning service by streaking through the church. He was caught by the organ.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: gordonmann on March 28, 2022, 02:06:29 PM
I'm a little embarrassed to admit that made me laugh. :)
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 28, 2022, 03:11:05 PM
Quote from: RogK on March 28, 2022, 01:24:19 PM
I thought that schism was caused by a guy who disrupted a Sunday morning service by streaking through the church. He was caught by the organ.

The schism starts just below the organ, right?
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: RogK on March 28, 2022, 08:40:58 PM
the only other church joke that comes to mind :
he who fart in church sit in own pew
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: WLCALUM83 on March 29, 2022, 09:00:22 AM
And there was that classic country mid 1970's song by the Kendalls about an extra-marital affair entitled "Heaven's Just a Sin Away."
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on May 19, 2022, 05:48:02 PM
Recent Trine grad Kelsey Taylor is going to graduate school this fall at Butler University in Indianapolis and will be playing a 5th year of basketball for the Bulldogs.  Butler is getting a solid defender and communicator.  Kelsey won't contribute much on the offensive end in D1 but she'll be able to sub in and bang a little and give some hard fouls  ;D.  Good luck Kelsey!
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on May 20, 2022, 08:53:31 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on May 19, 2022, 05:48:02 PM
Recent Trine grad Kelsey Taylor is going to graduate school this fall at Butler University in Indianapolis and will be playing a 5th year of basketball for the Bulldogs.  Butler is getting a solid defender and communicator.  Kelsey won't contribute much on the offensive end in D1 but she'll be able to sub in and bang a little and give some hard fouls  ;D.  Good luck Kelsey!

That's awesome!

Going into this last season, I thought the loss of Shay was going to set Trine back a lot more than most were predicting. I thought Hope was easily going to use their size to outstretch Trine. I did not expect Kelsy to step up in the manner and to the degree that she did. The growth in her post play from her junior year into her senior year was noticeable and she was a big reason why Trine's defense was able to be as suffocating as it was all season. What a fun and great opportunity to get one more season of playing a game she loves while transitioning to her next chapter!
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on May 20, 2022, 05:15:34 PM
I would have loved to see both Kenedy Schoonveld and Olivia Voskuil get a D1 opportunity as I think they could have helped out quite a few mid major D1 teams.  Last year would have been perfect for them to 'test the waters' but I know how strong the pull was to come back to Hope to get that championship that Covid took away the last 2 years.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on May 23, 2022, 09:32:36 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on May 20, 2022, 05:15:34 PM
I would have loved to see both Kenedy Schoonveld and Olivia Voskuil get a D1 opportunity as I think they could have helped out quite a few mid major D1 teams.  Last year would have been perfect for them to 'test the waters' but I know how strong the pull was to come back to Hope to get that championship that Covid took away the last 2 years.

The pull was very very strong. But not just Hope the institution, but the coaching staff and each other. From what I gather, between Olivia, Sydney, and Kennedy, two of the three had actually decided to move on and not return. Through conversations and figuring out some of the logistics that would allow them to both play basketball at Hope one more season while still starting the transition to the next phase in life, all three realized it was "doable"... Olivia and Sydney actually lived together in an apartment downtown Holland. Kenedy and Olivia have been playing basketball together since freshman year in high school. No one could ever say for certain, but in the hypothetical situation where one of the three didn't come back, I doubt the other two would have.

Lastly, I would argue that coming of the bench at a smaller D1 school would have been a far less rewarding year than the last one at Hope. The average attendance at Hope games is right on par with that at a MAC school. And based off the fact that they were ready to move on, I don't think they were ready to choose a grad program based on basketball. And my guess is U of M never inquired about Olivia playing her last season in Ann Arbor.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on May 24, 2022, 07:08:56 AM
Another Trine WBB graduate is going to be playing a 5th year in D1.  Tara Bieniewicz has committed to the University of North Dakota of the Summit League.  She received her degree in elementary education at Trine.  I'll be following the Fighting Hawks next season.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on May 24, 2022, 01:22:29 PM
Photos of Kelsey and Tara in their new uni's.  ;D

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FTDbZkFWIAMCZgO?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FTfbvDvWAAEYWiP?format=jpg&name=medium
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: gordonmann on May 24, 2022, 06:27:21 PM
Very cool. Congrats to both of them.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: northb on June 12, 2022, 05:13:19 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 28, 2022, 08:39:40 AM

Someone needs to direct me to a summary of the political and theological history behind this Hope/Calvin thing. I feel like I'm embarrassingly uninformed about the details.

The common thought is that they are "Separated by a Common Heritage."
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on June 13, 2022, 08:56:23 AM
Quote from: northb on June 12, 2022, 05:13:19 PM
The common thought is that they are "Separated by a Common Heritage."

Sounds about right.

Original reasons for the split are mostly obsolete today. If I can remember right, the more traditional (CRC) members objected to singing hymns instead of just Psalms, allowing non-members in participating in the sacraments, and membership in Masonic Lodges. They were also not fond of the shift away from catechism.

More recently, the biggest sticking points have been the role of women in the church, private v. public schooling, and financials... with financials probably being the biggest hurdle for those still hoping for reunification. I think the theological differences are small and could be overcame fairly easily. Fiscally, the differences are much bigger. CRC member churches pay significantly more back to the denomination (for a church of 100 members, roughly 5 times more). That money funds a multitude of offshoot missions that don't exist in the RCA like ReFrame, Resonate, The Banner, etc... However, 20% of those dollars also go to Calvin University and Calvin Seminary. The RCA approved this past weekend to change Western Theological Seminary from a RCA seminary to a "officially related" institution (the same status it already holds with Hope College). My point... 0% of RCA mission share dollars go to either institution.

Members not interested in reunification would argue the CRC has a history of not being the best stewards of those funds and/or not a fan of the fact that 20% of those dollars go directly to either Calvin University or Calvin Seminary. Even if they moved past Calvin, they tend to argue that the bulk of their tithing should stay local and be managed by their church, not the denomination.

CRC members uninterested in reunification typically view the RCA as less unified than they'd prefer. They have great pride in CRC's global outreach programs and tend to dislike the move away from CRC traditions towards more "non-denominational" faith. This is often paired with the feeling that the RCA has become too complacent in allowing more secular and liberal thought.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 13, 2022, 11:51:15 AM

I did do some research after the initial ask.  It seems like the theological differences weren't that great a the time of split, but the two groups have seemingly moved farther apart in the years since.  Maybe that's a difference between official positions and how it actually works out in the pews?

From the outside, it seems like the fact of separation and the culture of competition has done more to define each group than any other factor.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on June 14, 2022, 08:52:36 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 13, 2022, 11:51:15 AM
I did do some research after the initial ask.  It seems like the theological differences weren't that great a the time of split, but the two groups have seemingly moved farther apart in the years since...

Perhaps from the lens of a 2022 worldview, but in a very conservative Dutch community in 1882, the differences felt significantly different than they appear to us today. These were people who picked up their lives and followed a pastor across an ocean, then 750 miles west to a place they had never seen. Its not a coincidence that the divide happened six years after Van Raalte died in 1876. Us Dutch have a tendency to get pretty stuck in our ways. When the "new guy" wasn't doing it like Van Raalte did it, there were some reactions.

Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 13, 2022, 11:51:15 AM
From the outside, it seems like the fact of separation and the culture of competition has done more to define each group than any other factor.

I think this is very true about Hope and Calvin. It can be at times difficult for a fan of either school's sports teams to compartmentalize their fandom from their theology. But I think it's less true about the RCA and CRC today. I just don't think the average Western Sem student chose Western over Calvin with any consideration of "competition" between the two.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: northb on June 14, 2022, 02:37:11 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on June 14, 2022, 08:52:36 AM


Perhaps from the lens of a 2022 worldview, but in a very conservative Dutch community in 1882, the differences felt significantly different than they appear to us today. These were people who picked up their lives and followed a pastor across an ocean, then 750 miles west to a place they had never seen. Its not a coincidence that the divide happened six years after Van Raalte died in 1876. Us Dutch have a tendency to get pretty stuck in our ways. When the "new guy" wasn't doing it like Van Raalte did it, there were some reactions.



Some would even be shocked that this was being discussed on the Women's Board, as it is clearly more appropriate to be on a board devoted to the men. 
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on July 21, 2022, 05:28:49 PM
WBCA ANNOUNCES 2021-22 ACADEMIC TOP 25 TEAM HONOR ROLLS

#8 TRINE - TEAM GPA 3.707
#23 HOPE - TEAM GPA 3.641

HONORABLE MENTION TO CALVIN, ALBION, KALAMAZOO AND ADRIAN

CONGRATS TO BOTH TRINE AND HOPE FOR SUCCESSFUL 2021-22 SEASONS BOTH ON THE COURT AND IN THE CLASSROOM.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on July 25, 2022, 05:11:58 PM
Trine with 5 WBB commits from the incoming high school senior class of 2023 so far.  I imagine the Thunder making it to the NCAA Final Four in March is reaping some early benefits.  Usually girls at this level don't commit until well into their senior season or just after.  We're getting some good ones.  All are guards who like to shoot the 3, no bigs yet. 
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: AlwaysHope on August 01, 2022, 10:06:06 PM
A Holland Sentinel article about the Hope BB women going to Italy this summer mentioned that KATE MAJERUS would be taking the extra year of eligibility and coming back to play on the 2022-23 team! 

Anyone know if any of the other 4 year seniors are coming back?

Here's the article:  https://www.hollandsentinel.com/story/sports/2022/07/31/hope-women-heading-italy-basketball-cultural-immersion/10183824002/

Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on August 04, 2022, 02:35:26 PM
That's pretty awesome news.

A starting five of Morehouse, Baguley, McKinney, Majerus, and Feenstra feels like a playoff team capable of making another run.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: AlwaysHope on August 05, 2022, 11:36:38 AM
Those five players have lost only one game in the past three years!  That loss was to Trine this year, but they also defeated Trine three times during the most recent season.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on August 05, 2022, 11:52:47 AM
Quote from: AlwaysHope on August 05, 2022, 11:36:38 AM
Those five players have lost only one game in the past three years!  That loss was to Trine this year, but they also defeated Trine three times during the most recent season.
And three times the previous season! Six out of seven against an in-conference rival and semifinalist. I was flabbergasted at the time that the loss to Trine dropped them in the rankings as far as it did.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on August 16, 2022, 06:25:11 PM
A couple of youtube videos chronicling Trine's run to the Elite Eight and Final Four last season.  The first link is for the the Elite Eight and the second link for the Final Four.  Trine University did a wonderful job putting these videos together.  The locker room talk by Coach Rang after the Hope game made me teary eyed.  Shows how much love there is in this program.  They are longer vidoes but well worth the view if you are fan of D3 basketball, MIAA basketball, Hope and Trine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbT5YukrB4w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-1AmmkT9Is
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: pointlem on August 17, 2022, 10:48:33 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on August 16, 2022, 06:25:11 PM
A couple of youtube videos chronicling Trine's run to the Elite Eight and Final Four last season.  The first link is for the the Elite Eight and the second link for the Final Four.  Trine University did a wonderful job putting these videos together.  The locker room talk by Coach Rang after the Hope game made me teary eyed.  Shows how much love there is in this program.  They are longer vidoes but well worth the view if you are fan of D3 basketball, MIAA basketball, Hope and Trine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbT5YukrB4w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-1AmmkT9Is
Thanks, TUAngola . . . beautifully done . . . and Coach Rang and his team did Trine proud, right up to the locker room end.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on September 27, 2022, 04:54:29 PM
Trine WBB Coach Andy Rang won the Fort Wayne Senior City Golf Tournament with back to back 71s for an even par 142.  A man of many talents!  ;D
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on October 24, 2022, 05:34:43 PM
Trine 2022-23 WBB roster is up. 

https://trinethunder.com/sports/wbkb/2022-23/roster

Going to be a year of change for the Thunder.  Top 4 scorers have all gradulated: Tara, Kayla, Kelsey & Rachel, all played major roles all 4 years of their time at Trine.  My projected starters for this year are:  Senior G Makayla Ardis (returning starter), Senior F Katie Sloneker (returning starter), Senior F Sam Underhill, Senior G Alyssa Argyle and Senior F Sophie Sloneker.  First ones off the bench:  Soph G Sydney Wagner, Soph G Sierra Hinds, Junior G Chelsea Giesige (injured most of last year), Soph G Katie Tate (transfer from Travecca Nazarene Univ), Fresh F Abby Sanner, and Fresh F Alexis Snodgrass.  One gal not returning this year from last year's roster is F Brooke Brauher.  We have good experience with the first five, but other than Sydney the second five will all be 'green' and will need to produce to allow Coach Rang to run his usual platoon system.     

Looking forward to the new team, will be interesting to see how they develop.  Obviously won't be a top 25 team after losing so much production from last year, but will probably start out in the pre-season top 25 based on last year's run to the Final Four.

Would love to hear about Hope's team this year from you fellow board posters out there...who is returning, who you think will be 1st five and 2nd five, or any newcomers who will get minutes. 
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on October 24, 2022, 07:33:52 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on October 24, 2022, 05:34:43 PM
Trine 2022-23 WBB roster is up. 

https://trinethunder.com/sports/wbkb/2022-23/roster

Going to be a year of change for the Thunder.  Top 4 scorers have all gradulated: Tara, Kayla, Kelsey & Rachel, all played major roles all 4 years of their time at Trine.  My projected starters for this year are:  Senior G Makayla Ardis (returning starter), Senior F Katie Sloneker (returning starter), Senior F Sam Underhill, Senior G Alyssa Argyle and Senior F Sophie Sloneker.  First ones off the bench:  Soph G Sydney Wagner, Soph G Sierra Hinds, Junior G Chelsea Giesige (injured most of last year), Soph G Katie Tate (transfer from Travecca Nazarene Univ), Fresh F Abby Sanner, and Fresh F Alexis Snodgrass.  One gal not returning this year from last year's roster is F Brooke Brauher.  We have good experience with the first five, but other than Sydney the second five will all be 'green' and will need to produce to allow Coach Rang to run his usual platoon system.     

Looking forward to the new team, will be interesting to see how they develop.  Obviously won't be a top 25 team after losing so much production from last year, but will probably start out in the pre-season top 25 based on last year's run to the Final Four.

Would love to hear about Hope's team this year from you fellow board posters out there...who is returning, who you think will be 1st five and 2nd five, or any newcomers who will get minutes. 

Hope's roster is up too.  I don't know much about the newcomers but quite a few familiar names among the returners.  They include Meg Morehouse (5.8 ppg); Claire Baguley (6.8); Ella McKinney (8.8); Kate Majerus (6.7); and Savannah Feenstra (9.2, missed end of year and postseason due to knee) as well as several others with experience from last year.  This should make a pretty strong nucleus but as with most teams, the newcomers will determine a lot.  One interesting transfer looks to be guard Carlee Crabtree from Central Michigan.  She didn't play much for the Chippewas but was 4-time all state and 4-time all county first team coming out of high school.  Karsen Karlblom was an Illinois 3A Honorable Mention who reportedly racked up some big numbers and 3 pointers at Prairie Ridge in IL.  There's some height with (6) 6-footers and most of the guards are pretty good sized too.  Don't know much else but it looks like this is a promising group.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on October 24, 2022, 08:40:09 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on October 24, 2022, 07:33:52 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on October 24, 2022, 05:34:43 PM
Trine 2022-23 WBB roster is up. 

https://trinethunder.com/sports/wbkb/2022-23/roster

Going to be a year of change for the Thunder.  Top 4 scorers have all gradulated: Tara, Kayla, Kelsey & Rachel, all played major roles all 4 years of their time at Trine.  My projected starters for this year are:  Senior G Makayla Ardis (returning starter), Senior F Katie Sloneker (returning starter), Senior F Sam Underhill, Senior G Alyssa Argyle and Senior F Sophie Sloneker.  First ones off the bench:  Soph G Sydney Wagner, Soph G Sierra Hinds, Junior G Chelsea Giesige (injured most of last year), Soph G Katie Tate (transfer from Travecca Nazarene Univ), Fresh F Abby Sanner, and Fresh F Alexis Snodgrass.  One gal not returning this year from last year's roster is F Brooke Brauher.  We have good experience with the first five, but other than Sydney the second five will all be 'green' and will need to produce to allow Coach Rang to run his usual platoon system.     

Looking forward to the new team, will be interesting to see how they develop.  Obviously won't be a top 25 team after losing so much production from last year, but will probably start out in the pre-season top 25 based on last year's run to the Final Four.

Would love to hear about Hope's team this year from you fellow board posters out there...who is returning, who you think will be 1st five and 2nd five, or any newcomers who will get minutes. 

Hope's roster is up too.  I don't know much about the newcomers but quite a few familiar names among the returners.  They include Meg Morehouse (5.8 ppg); Claire Baguley (6.8); Ella McKinney (8.8); Kate Majerus (6.7); and Savannah Feenstra (9.2, missed end of year and postseason due to knee) as well as several others with experience from last year.  This should make a pretty strong nucleus but as with most teams, the newcomers will determine a lot.  One interesting transfer looks to be guard Carlee Crabtree from Central Michigan.  She didn't play much for the Chippewas but was 4-time all state and 4-time all county first team coming out of high school.  Karsen Karlblom was an Illinois 3A Honorable Mention who reportedly racked up some big numbers and 3 pointers at Prairie Ridge in IL.  There's some height with (6) 6-footers and most of the guards are pretty good sized too.  Don't know much else but it looks like this is a promising group.

I watched Carlee's Hudl senior highlight video.  Wow, she has game, can shoot it from 3 and get to the rim with ease.  Didn't realize she is from Coldwater which is just a short trip north over the state line from Angola.  Her brother Ethan is a freshman on the Hope men's team so there is a Crabtree on both rosters.  Couple more Indiana girls on the Hope roster this year, with one from right here in Angola in Lauren Leach.  Overall it looks like your freshman class is very talented.  I know Trine offered not only Lauren, but also Keegan Kaiser from Floyd Central HS IN and Lina Rea from Utica HS MI 
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: sac on October 25, 2022, 11:23:32 AM
Carlee Crabtree committed pretty early to Central Michigan, I won't pretend to know her recruiting process but in an article about her commitment to CMU she mentioned Ball St and WMU.  Happy to have both Crabtree's at Hope.


The 3 player Freshmen class she was a part of at CMU which received a lot of hype for their 1st year coach have all transferred away from Mt. Pleasant.  CMU finished last season with just 9 players, only have 11 this year.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: AlwaysHope on October 27, 2022, 03:20:46 PM
F Abi Tarrant did not play much last year, but I thought she showed potential when she did.  Came highly rated, but not on the roster this year.  Anyone know why?
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on October 27, 2022, 05:11:08 PM
Trine WBB has added an exhibition game against Hillsdale College at home on Friday Nov 4.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Riley Zayas on October 28, 2022, 04:57:41 PM
Quote from: AlwaysHope on October 27, 2022, 03:20:46 PM
F Abi Tarrant did not play much last year, but I thought she showed potential when she did.  Came highly rated, but not on the roster this year.  Anyone know why?

Thought that was interesting as well. As far as I can find, she has not transferred to another basketball program, and her IG still says "Hope WBB '25"...so I have no idea. Thought she might see more playing time this season, but there are more factors in a player's decision to return or not that go beyond just playing time.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on October 31, 2022, 03:48:20 PM
Preseason Top 25 is out:

https://www.d3hoops.com/top25/women/2022-23/preseason

Hope is #1, Trine #8.  Be really interesting to see how both squads do considering their graduation losses.

In preconference play, Hope has probable matchups (dependent on tournament winners/losers) with ORV IWU, and #13 UW Eau Claire the first two weekends (both tournaments hosted by Hope).  They also will play ORV Wis. Lutheran at home on Nov 22
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on October 31, 2022, 05:42:48 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on October 31, 2022, 03:48:20 PM
Preseason Top 25 is out:

https://www.d3hoops.com/top25/women/2022-23/preseason

Hope is #1, Trine #8.  Be really interesting to see how both squads do considering their graduation losses.

In preconference play, Hope has probable matchups (dependent on tournament winners/losers) with ORV IWU, and #13 UW Eau Claire the first two weekends (both tournaments hosted by Hope).  They also will play ORV Wis. Lutheran at home on Nov 22

Trine with an equally tough non-con schedule.  Plays #12 Baldwin Wallace, #13 UW-Eau Claire, ORV Wartburg, and possibly ORV DePauw.  Rest of schedule is solid too, Ohio Northern and Otterbein are very good, Benedictine as well.

In the conference I see Hope as the prohibitive favorite.  Albion returns most everyone.  Calvin has Gabby Timmer coming back for a 5th year.  My sleeper team will be Alma, they gave us fits last year.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on November 01, 2022, 08:35:24 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on October 31, 2022, 03:48:20 PM
Preseason Top 25 is out:

https://www.d3hoops.com/top25/women/2022-23/preseason

Hope is #1, Trine #8.  Be really interesting to see how both squads do considering their graduation losses...

Kate returning for a fifth year is huge for Hope, but #1 feels very lofty considering they lost arguably their 3 best players.  A starting rotation of Meg, Ella, Claire, Kate, and Savannah is certainly worthy of being in the top 10, but if I were a voter, I'd have NYU #1 returning everyone, Transylvania #2 returning 4 of their 5 starters from last year, and Whitewater #3 returning Grundahl.

Gone is the ability to run teams out of the gym through whole line changes and playing 10 players deep. It will be weird to see Hope players tired in the fourth quarter :)
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on November 01, 2022, 08:56:01 AM
Quote from: HOPEful on November 01, 2022, 08:35:24 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on October 31, 2022, 03:48:20 PM
Preseason Top 25 is out:

https://www.d3hoops.com/top25/women/2022-23/preseason

Hope is #1, Trine #8.  Be really interesting to see how both squads do considering their graduation losses...

Kate returning for a fifth year is huge for Hope, but #1 feels very lofty considering they lost arguably their 3 best players.  A starting rotation of Meg, Ella, Claire, Kate, and Savannah is certainly worthy of being in the top 10, but if I were a voter, I'd have NYU #1 returning everyone, Transylvania #2 returning 4 of their 5 starters from last year, and Whitewater #3 returning Grundahl.

Gone is the ability to run teams out of the gym through whole line changes and playing 10 players deep. It will be weird to see Hope players tired in the fourth quarter :)

I agree.  The only wildcard would be if Hope's newcomers are better than everyone else's newcomers and can make an immediate large impact.  There seems to be some interesting incoming talent but I don't know enough to think they would be quite that impactful.  But the respect is nice.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on November 01, 2022, 10:10:42 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on November 01, 2022, 08:56:01 AM
I agree.  The only wildcard would be if Hope's newcomers are better than everyone else's newcomers and can make an immediate large impact.  There seems to be some interesting incoming talent but I don't know enough to think they would be quite that impactful.  But the respect is nice.

For sure. A repeat national championship is obviously the goal and should be. But the unknowns for Hope going into this season are much greater than the unknowns for NYU and Transylvania. There are a ton of reasons to believe Hope can make a deep run yet again this season. But I would argue that it's final four or bust for NYU, Transylvania, and Whitewater. If I'm tiering my rankings, those three are tier 1 and tier 2 is Trinity, CNU, Smith, Amherst, and Hope. If I were a voter, I'd have Trinity 4, CNU 5, and Hope 6. I don't have Scranton on that list, because they're losing Abby Anderson. I don't have Trine because they're losing Tara. But like Hope, both those teams have reasons to be very optimistic this season.

Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: ronk on November 01, 2022, 12:08:06 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on November 01, 2022, 10:10:42 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on November 01, 2022, 08:56:01 AM
I agree.  The only wildcard would be if Hope's newcomers are better than everyone else's newcomers and can make an immediate large impact.  There seems to be some interesting incoming talent but I don't know enough to think they would be quite that impactful.  But the respect is nice.

For sure. A repeat national championship is obviously the goal and should be. But the unknowns for Hope going into this season are much greater than the unknowns for NYU and Transylvania. There are a ton of reasons to believe Hope can make a deep run yet again this season. But I would argue that it's final four or bust for NYU, Transylvania, and Whitewater. If I'm tiering my rankings, those three are tier 1 and tier 2 is Trinity, CNU, Smith, Amherst, and Hope. If I were a voter, I'd have Trinity 4, CNU 5, and Hope 6. I don't have Scranton on that list, because they're losing Abby Anderson. I don't have Trine because they're losing Tara. But like Hope, both those teams have reasons to be very optimistic this season.
Scranton picks up an all-regional grad xfer Samantha Rajza but loses their low post starter with an injury. Would have them ~ #10 before the injury, probably ~ #20 afterwards.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 01, 2022, 01:26:59 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on November 01, 2022, 08:35:24 AM
Gone is the ability to run teams out of the gym through whole line changes and playing 10 players deep. It will be weird to see Hope players tired in the fourth quarter :)

So you are assuming that Coach Mo is going to change his style of play.    Given that since the 2000-2001 season there have been 128 players see the floor for Hope, and a grand total of 12 of them have ever averaged 25 min or more for a single season (including multiple AAs who never exceeded that number), I rather doubt it.  He recruits to fits his style of play, not adjusts his style to fit his players.  The 10 player rotation is so much about defense and intensity and scoring in transition that I just don't see him chnaging.  Recruits know that is what they are coming to, and they come to play in that. 
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on November 01, 2022, 01:47:30 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on November 01, 2022, 01:26:59 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on November 01, 2022, 08:35:24 AM
Gone is the ability to run teams out of the gym through whole line changes and playing 10 players deep. It will be weird to see Hope players tired in the fourth quarter :)

So you are assuming that Coach Mo is going to change his style of play.    Given that since the 2000-2001 season there have been 128 players see the floor for Hope, and a grand total of 12 of them have ever averaged 25 min or more for a single season (including multiple AAs who never exceeded that number), I rather doubt it.  He recruits to fits his style of play, not adjusts his style to fit his players.  The 10 player rotation is so much about defense and intensity and scoring in transition that I just don't see him chnaging.  Recruits know that is what they are coming to, and they come to play in that.

Agreed. Tired in the fourth was an over-reaction. But last year the difference between the starters and "chaos crew" was minimal. This year, I think the strategy around the rotation will have to be a lot more nuanced than just an all out line change.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on November 04, 2022, 04:54:26 PM
Trine with exhibition game against Hillsdale College tonight.  Will report back with observations...maybe ;D.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on November 04, 2022, 08:50:09 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on November 04, 2022, 04:54:26 PM
Trine with exhibition game against Hillsdale College tonight.  Will report back with observations...maybe ;D.

Exhibition final:  Hillsdale 62 Trine 61.  Tied at end of 1st quarter, Trine up 3 at half, tied at end of 3rd quarter.  Some encouraging play from the ladies and some not so pretty.  Hillsdale with some really good shooters and a D1 transfer post player that is very physical and can finish.

Random observations;
Starters were Ardis, Argyle, Tate, K Sloneker, and Underhill.  Next 5 were Wagner, Hinds, Walters, S Sloneker and Sanner.
Tate is soph transfer and Walters and Sanner freshmen.  Other 7 who played were on the roster last year.
No individual scoring kept.  Wagner was easily the leading scorer, she was impressive.  Hinds was probably the most improved.
If tonight is any indication we won't have the 'platoon system' of years past, my guess is that 8 of the first 10 will get the most minutes.
Defense is still our calling card.  Offense will be a work in progress.
Injury bug is hitting us in preseason, couple girls sat out, one looked like it may be an extensive injury if not season ending.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on November 09, 2022, 05:54:53 PM
Trine opens the new season with a dominanting win over Benedictine last night 77-34.  New team, same stifling defense.  I wish our men's team could play defense like the women. ::).  For the first game with some new starters and new rotations I was pleasantly surprised that we played this well.  I was expecting more from BenU, maybe they graduated most of their scorers from last year.  It was 41-11 at half and then we cruised from there.  It was a coming out party for soph Sierra Hinds who finished with 17 pts in 16 minutes off the bench.  She can shoot it and also has a good mid range game as well.  Our bench outscored our starters 43-34.  I thought point guard Makayla Ardis had a good floor game, she's pretty physical for 5'6.  But not as physical as Sydney Wagner, she snared a rebound and then went 'coast to coast' with a bucket at the rim with an 'and one' that was pretty sweet. 

The girls will now go on the road to play a very good ranked Baldwin Wallace squad on Friday.  It will be interesting to see how they handle adversity on the road against a NCAA tournament tough team.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on November 09, 2022, 09:43:29 PM
Kelsey Taylor with 10 pts and 8 reb in her D1 debut with the Butler Bulldogs tonight.  Awesome KT!!

I checked North Dakota's box score the other night and doesn't look like Tara got into the game.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on November 10, 2022, 08:23:06 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on November 09, 2022, 05:54:53 PM
The girls will now go on the road to play a very good ranked Baldwin Wallace squad on Friday.  It will be interesting to see how they handle adversity on the road against a NCAA tournament tough team.

It will also be interesting to see how BW handles not having Lilly Edwards. I can't imagine BW's offense without her, as their entire offensive strategy last season was to feed Lilly. I personally predict the Thunder to win in a blowout, with the BW offense stagnant and unable to do anything against the Thunder's defense.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Dutchfan on November 11, 2022, 08:14:04 PM
The Hope women defeated Geneva 143-57. The 143 points eclipsed the 139 points the men put up in 2018-19 in a game against North Park U. to set the record for most points in a game by any Hope basketball team.

Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Dutchfan on November 11, 2022, 09:42:46 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on November 11, 2022, 08:14:04 PM
The Hope women defeated Geneva 143-57. The 143 points eclipsed the 139 points the men put up in 2018-19 in a game against North Park U. to set the record for most points in a game by any Hope basketball team.
It is also a new Division 3 women's basketball record, breaking the previous record of 142 set by Huntington in 2019.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Dutchfan on November 12, 2022, 08:34:14 AM
Image being on the Trinity (TX) Women's Basketball team, your team scores 140 points and it's not even the highest score of the day.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: pointlem on November 12, 2022, 10:50:19 AM
Quote from: Dutchfan on November 11, 2022, 08:14:04 PM
The Hope women defeated Geneva 143-57. The 143 points eclipsed the 139 points the men put up in 2018-19 in a game against North Park U. to set the record for most points in a game by any Hope basketball team.
And not like Hope was running up the score (with starters averaging but 12 minutes). In the first quarter, Hope's speed consistently broke through Geneva's ineffective full court press to yield easy, quick layups--and 43 first quarter points.

Hope's 2022-2023 team--sans its four star grads from last year--will get a much better test against IWU this afternoon.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 12, 2022, 01:36:26 PM
Couple of points/thoughts

- The Hope men did score 139 in 18-19 but that was against Greenville (played at North Park). The only reason I point that out is that Greenville is a "system" team (like Grinnell) and their philosophy is to get you to score 2pts quickly so they can hoist another 3. It's more complicated than that of course, but it's a system that leads to ridiculously high scores (Greenville scored 129 on Hope that game). While Geneva likes to push the pace and press, they are definitely not a system team. Last night was simply an offensive explosion by Hope all the way down the bench.

- At the end of the first Q I took a peak at the stats. Hope had scored 43 point on 17-20 FG and they had 3 offensive rebounds. So zero trips down the floor without scoring. Talk about offensive efficiency - just wow!!  Going to be interesting to calculate the Hope efficiency numbers for that game.

- Now on to IWU - a team that will certainly be a stiff challenge for Hope. They seem to play a similar game to Hope - relentless defensive pressure that fuels quick scoring opportunities. Looking forward to a good game.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on November 12, 2022, 03:55:38 PM
Sheesh this isn't competitive.  And I bet IWU is a top 30 team.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: pointlem on November 12, 2022, 09:07:34 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on November 12, 2022, 03:55:38 PM
Sheesh this isn't competitive.  And I bet IWU is a top 30 team.
Well, it was competitive--a 66 to 66 tie--for the last 3 quarters, which might suggest that if these two teams were to meet again it could be a close context. But as on Friday night, Hope had a blow-out first quarter, where their 26 point (33 to 7) margin was the final margin.

I'd earlier suggested that, given Hope's graduation losses, I've expected them to be a good team but not a #1 ranked team. That's likely still true. But after watching their first two games, my optimism is trending upward:
All in all, a great start to what looks like another exciting season.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on November 15, 2022, 08:04:51 AM
Nice interview with Coach Morehouse on Hoopsville last night.  I was a little surprised to hear Mo say, in answer to a question from Dave, that he doesn't get many calls from other schools looking to with coaching openings.  With his record of sustained success, I would think that he'd be receiving lots of calls.  Perhaps they think he is entrenched at Hope; great for the Dutch!  On the other hand I was a little worried to hear Coach say he wouldn't rule out a move, though surely can't blame him at all.  Wish nothing but the best for him.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: ronk on November 15, 2022, 10:02:24 AM
 He also said he enjoys coaching his daughter, so possibly when she graduates he'll be open to the offers.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on November 15, 2022, 11:44:57 AM
Quote from: pointlem on November 12, 2022, 09:07:34 PM
I'd earlier suggested that, given Hope's graduation losses, I've expected them to be a good team but not a #1 ranked team. That's likely still true. But after watching their first two games, my optimism is trending upward...

... I had not anticipated the promising contributions of new players. For example, my bingo card did not include CMU D1 transfer Carlee Crabtree and 6' 1" home school alum, Kendall Sietsma (who scored 21 points this weekend, while displaying a nice shooting touch and agility) ...

I was quite outspoken about the fact that I didn't believe Hope deserved the #1 spot and that I'd slot them somewhere in the 6-10 range. Although I still think CNU, NYU, and UWW are a little more polished at this point in the season, I too was not anticipating the immediate impact of Crabtree, Sietsema, and Garner. Kate and Meg both played 27 minutes against IWU, and the starters were pulled with 7 minutes left in the game. So, it definitely feels like a more traditional lineup with the starters getting the occasional break rather than the entire line change strategy that Hope was able to employ last season. But the unexpected contributions from Crabtree and Sietsema have certainly elevated my expectations for this team.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: sac on November 20, 2022, 09:43:16 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on November 15, 2022, 08:04:51 AM
Nice interview with Coach Morehouse on Hoopsville last night.  I was a little surprised to hear Mo say, in answer to a question from Dave, that he doesn't get many calls from other schools looking to with coaching openings.  With his record of sustained success, I would think that he'd be receiving lots of calls.  Perhaps they think he is entrenched at Hope; great for the Dutch!  On the other hand I was a little worried to hear Coach say he wouldn't rule out a move, though surely can't blame him at all.  Wish nothing but the best for him.

I don't know Morehouse personally but really could only see him being interested in a couple of the D2 schools in Michigan if at all.  State schools are a different animal, great facilities or not and I'm not sure there are more than 3 or 4 that have something comparable or better than Hope and probably none that have better support.  Now, he could go build that somewhere but it would be a lot harder than it is at Hope.

But....NIL has really changed everything.

Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on November 22, 2022, 06:37:16 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on November 15, 2022, 11:44:57 AM
But the unexpected contributions from Crabtree and Sietsema have certainly elevated my expectations for this team.

Hard same.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on November 23, 2022, 08:23:58 AM
Quote from: scottiedawg on November 22, 2022, 06:37:16 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on November 15, 2022, 11:44:57 AM
But the unexpected contributions from Crabtree and Sietsema have certainly elevated my expectations for this team.
Hard same.
With all respect to Raven and Courtney, one of the biggest fears going into this season had to be "What happens when Savanah Feenstra isn't on the court?" Olivia was just such a dominant presence the last four years, especially on defense. The one two punches of Savanah and Olivia was just incredible, to the point where for a time Morehouse experimented with using Savanah in the "Starting 5" and Olivia on the "Chaos Crew". Sietsema isn't Olivia (to be fair, no one is) but I feel confident in the 6'1" freshman's ability to provide quality minutes in the paint. At some point this season, that depth is going to be crucial... as soon as Wednesday against Gabby Timmer.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 23, 2022, 08:35:33 AM
Quote from: HOPEful on November 23, 2022, 08:23:58 AM
Quote from: scottiedawg on November 22, 2022, 06:37:16 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on November 15, 2022, 11:44:57 AM
But the unexpected contributions from Crabtree and Sietsema have certainly elevated my expectations for this team.
Hard same.
With all respect to Raven and Courtney, one of the biggest fears going into this season had to be "What happens when Savanah Feenstra isn't on the court?" Olivia was just such a dominant presence the last four years, especially on defense. The one two punches of Savanah and Olivia was just incredible, to the point where for a time Morehouse experimented with using Savanah in the "Starting 5" and Olivia on the "Chaos Crew". Sietsema isn't Olivia (to be fair, no one is) but I feel confident in the 6'1" transfers ability to provide quality minutes in the paint. At some point this season, that depth is going to be crucial... as soon as Wednesday against Gabby Timmer.

Yes, Sietsema is going to be key in providing an inside presence off the bench.  I've been impressed with her so far, but she also makes some Freshman mistakes (as expected).  Her continued growth and improvement will be key. 

Crabtree has really been special off the bench.  Averaging 8 pts, 2 reb, 1 steal in 16 minutes per game.  She is shooting .667 from the field (14-21), .714 from 3 (10-14), and .750 from the line (3-4). 

And speaking of the FT line - YIKES!!!!  The Flying Dutch were an abysmal 6-19 last night (.315) dropping their season average to .612
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on November 23, 2022, 10:36:41 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on November 23, 2022, 08:35:33 AM
Yes, Sietsema is going to be key in providing an inside presence off the bench.  I've been impressed with her so far, but she also makes some Freshman mistakes (as expected).  Her continued growth and improvement will be key...

I agree. I was more thinking long down the road come playoffs. If the Dutch matchup again with a team like UWW, Aleah Grundahl played 38 minutes against Hope in Pittsburg last season and finished the game with 1 foul. Olivia finished the game with 4. Jenny Walker at Tufts and Maggie Russel at NYU would spark similar fears. I think Savannah is good enough to go toe-to-toe with those ladies but having a player like Sietsema provide meaningful minutes could end up being essential at some point. I agree with your take on Crabtree, but so far it's Sietsma that's filled in in terms of Hope's biggest need going into this season.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on November 23, 2022, 04:58:03 PM
So...just wanted to see if any of you Hope followers are thinking what I've been thinking of your WBB team so far this...that dare I say they may be better than they were last year...or at least have the potential to be better?  Of the games I've seen online it appears that offensively you may have more weapons this year than last year and certainly have a far better shooting percentage.  As a Trine fan I was hoping for a little bit of a 'down year' for Hope, but I'm afraid that won't be the case. ::)  Contrastly Trine is struggling mightily shooting the ball so far this year.  You can't keep shooting in the mid to high 30 percent range and expect to win consistently, at least not against the upper echelon teams.  I thought we had maybe one good half over the two games this past weekend against Edgewood and Otterbein.  We played well against Edgewood the second half, but against Otterbein the whole game was a stinker.  If it wasn't for stellar free throw shooting we probably should have lost.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Dutchfan on November 23, 2022, 10:35:03 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on November 23, 2022, 04:58:03 PM
So...just wanted to see if any of you Hope followers are thinking what I've been thinking of your WBB team so far this...that dare I say they may be better than they were last year...or at least have the potential to be better?  Of the games I've seen online it appears that offensively you may have more weapons this year than last year and certainly have a far better shooting percentage.  As a Trine fan I was hoping for a little bit of a 'down year' for Hope, but I'm afraid that won't be the case. ::)  Contrastly Trine is struggling mightily shooting the ball so far this year.  You can't keep shooting in the mid to high 30 percent range and expect to win consistently, at least not against the upper echelon teams.  I thought we had maybe one good half over the two games this past weekend against Edgewood and Otterbein.  We played well against Edgewood the second half, but against Otterbein the whole game was a stinker.  If it wasn't for stellar free throw shooting we probably should have lost.
I've actually been thinking the same thing about this team since we laid down 143 points on Geneva. Though it is hard to believe it of a National Championship team that includes the unanimous D3 MVP (Schoonveld), a second All-American (Voskul), the NCAA tournament  MVP (Muller), but this year's team seems more dynamic and seems to just flow in a way that they didn't last year. That may be in part due to more traditional substituting rather than platooning like last year.

People have talked about Sietsema and Crabtree, but I've been very impressed with Jada Garner as well.I felt that her guard players been very impressive this year.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on November 24, 2022, 06:38:04 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on November 23, 2022, 04:58:03 PM
So...just wanted to see if any of you Hope followers are thinking what I've been thinking of your WBB team so far this...that dare I say they may be better than they were last year...or at least have the potential to be better?  Of the games I've seen online it appears that offensively you may have more weapons this year than last year and certainly have a far better shooting percentage.  As a Trine fan I was hoping for a little bit of a 'down year' for Hope, but I'm afraid that won't be the case. ::)  Contrastly Trine is struggling mightily shooting the ball so far this year.  You can't keep shooting in the mid to high 30 percent range and expect to win consistently, at least not against the upper echelon teams.  I thought we had maybe one good half over the two games this past weekend against Edgewood and Otterbein.  We played well against Edgewood the second half, but against Otterbein the whole game was a stinker.  If it wasn't for stellar free throw shooting we probably should have lost.

I've been pleasantly surprised by how strong this team looks - and I think they will get better - but I'm not willing to go there yet.  As Dutchfan mentioned three incredible players have moved on; each made countless big plays in their careers when it counted most.  Not saying the current crew won't or in some cases hasn't already done the same, but the body of work is not there yet.  Last year's team was deeper and there were quite a few games against tough opponents that were close for three quarters only to see the Dutch pull away in the fourth.  Agree that his team has been shooting lights out, but it's only been five games and I always worry what happens on the night when the shooting just isn't there.  So that brings me to the main difference I see - defense.  Feenstra is a great player but Voskuil was unique, she completely changed the game plan for opponents on both offense and defense.  Dutch turnovers are up only slightly this year and turnover margin is less than half what it was last year.  This is a typical great Morehouse defense but I don't think of the same caliber (yet) as last year and you know what they say about defense....

So I hope you are right and I think the potential is there but I'm going to need more convincing.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: pointlem on November 24, 2022, 08:34:05 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on November 24, 2022, 06:38:04 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on November 23, 2022, 04:58:03 PM
So...just wanted to see if any of you Hope followers are thinking what I've been thinking of your WBB team so far this...that dare I say they may be better than they were last year...or at least have the potential to be better?  Of the games I've seen online it appears that offensively you may have more weapons this year than last year and certainly have a far better shooting percentage.  As a Trine fan I was hoping for a little bit of a 'down year' for Hope, but I'm afraid that won't be the case. ::)  Contrastly Trine is struggling mightily shooting the ball so far this year.  You can't keep shooting in the mid to high 30 percent range and expect to win consistently, at least not against the upper echelon teams.  I thought we had maybe one good half over the two games this past weekend against Edgewood and Otterbein.  We played well against Edgewood the second half, but against Otterbein the whole game was a stinker.  If it wasn't for stellar free throw shooting we probably should have lost.

I've been pleasantly surprised by how strong this team looks - and I think they will get better - but I'm not willing to go there yet.  As Dutchfan mentioned three incredible players have moved on; each made countless big plays in their careers when it counted most.  Not saying the current crew won't or in some cases hasn't already done the same, but the body of work is not there yet.  Last year's team was deeper and there were quite a few games against tough opponents that were close for three quarters only to see the Dutch pull away in the fourth.  Agree that his team has been shooting lights out, but it's only been five games and I always worry what happens on the night when the shooting just isn't there.  So that brings me to the main difference I see - defense.  Feenstra is a great player but Voskuil was unique, she completely changed the game plan for opponents on both offense and defense.  Dutch turnovers are up only slightly this year and turnover margin is less than half what it was last year.  This is a typical great Morehouse defense but I don't think of the same caliber (yet) as last year and you know what they say about defense....

So I hope you are right and I think the potential is there but I'm going to need more convincing.
I second what Roundball said: Might this year's Hope WBB team be better than the team that lost one game over the last 3 years? With the loss of Schoonveld, Muller, and, especially, the defense and rebounding of agile 6' 3" Voskuil, it seems unlikely.

That said, this year's group is off to a great start. Their intense hustle and great team spirit make them a joy to watch.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on November 26, 2022, 06:23:40 PM
Trine loses to Ohio Northern this afternoon 53-50.  Thanksgiving break didn't help our shooting woes, we only hit 32% for the game.  I mentioned in a previous post we aren't going to win games against good teams shooting in the 30's and I was right today.  Lone bright spot was little used Freshman Addison Hutson who came off the bench and hit 5 three pointers on her way to 17 pts.  She shot 6-8, the rest of team 10-41.  We shot 32 three pointers today, we aren't a good enough shooting team from behind the arc to be throwing up that many.  But credit to Ohio Northern, they took away about everything else in our offensive sets.  They were pretty good, have a couple of nice post players and a real good point guard in Serbin.  ONU hit some big shots in the 4th quarter and we just couldn't answer down the stretch.

Calvin with a huge win at #4 UW-Whitewater today.  It appears Calvin could be the main threat to Hope this year in the MIAA.  Conference games start next week.  Most teams will play 4 conference games in December then break away for a couple of weeks over the holidays to finish up their non-conference schedule before getting back to conference play in January.   
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on November 28, 2022, 08:59:44 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on November 23, 2022, 04:58:03 PM
...dare I say they may be better than they were last year...or at least have the potential to be better? 

Hope's philosophy last season was relentless and suffocating defense that had zero let up over four quarters. You could make a strong argument that this philosophy stunted Hope's offensive potential. Kenedy, the D3 player of the year, averaged 20 minutes per game. If Morehouse was trying to maximize the team's offensive production, surely, he would have found more minutes for his best offensive player. It's nearly impossible to judge any team in comparison to last year's team, because who knows what the results would have looked like had Hope taken a more traditional approach with Kenedy, Olivia, and Sydney averaging 30+ minutes/game. Morehouse doesn't have the luxury this season of having a "Chaos Crew" on the bench that would arguably have been a Top25 team on their own. No one does, and no one may ever again. I don't think it can be overstated just how incredible what Hope was able to do in the fourth quarters last season because they got 3 fifth year seniors plus 7 women all very much capable of being starters on very good teams to whole heartedly buy-in to an unconventional line-change approach. Against LaRoche in the playoffs, Hope was up 1 point with 4.5 minutes left in the 3rd. They went the rest of the game on a 44-13 run and everyone could see LaRoche was visibly gassed. Like, extreme CrossFit workout gassed.

This season, Kate played 34 minutes against Eau Claire and Ella played 31 (the one time Hope's been somewhat challenged this season). This team can score buckets and is very very exciting to watch. But asking if they are or could be better than last year is forgetting just how dominant that team, that defense, and that approach was for 3 years.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 28, 2022, 09:28:01 AM
Quote from: HOPEful on November 28, 2022, 08:59:44 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on November 23, 2022, 04:58:03 PM
...dare I say they may be better than they were last year...or at least have the potential to be better? 

Hope's philosophy last season was relentless and suffocating defense that had zero let up over four quarters. You could make a strong argument that this philosophy stunted Hope's offensive potential. Kenedy, the D3 player of the year, averaged 20 minutes per game. If Morehouse was trying to maximize the team's offensive production, surely, he would have found more minutes for his best offensive player. It's nearly impossible to judge any team in comparison to last year's team, because who knows what the results would have looked like had Hope taken a more traditional approach with Kenedy, Olivia, and Sydney averaging 30+ minutes/game. Morehouse doesn't have the luxury this season of having a "Chaos Crew" on the bench that would arguably have been a Top25 team on their own. No one does, and no one may ever again. I don't think it can be overstated just how incredible what Hope was able to do in the fourth quarters last season because they got 3 fifth year seniors plus 7 women all very much capable of being starters on very good teams to whole heartedly buy-in to an unconventional line-change approach. Against LaRoche in the playoffs, Hope was up 1 point with 4.5 minutes left in the 3rd. They went the rest of the game on a 44-13 run and everyone could see LaRoche was visibly gassed. Like, extreme CrossFit workout gassed.

This season, Kate played 34 minutes against Eau Claire and Ella played 31 (the one time Hope's been somewhat challenged this season). This team can score buckets and is very very exciting to watch. But asking if they are or could be better than last year is forgetting just how dominant that team, that defense, and that approach was for 3 years.

Yes - totally this!!! +k   Comparing teams is natural, but to me (so far) this years team has a loooong way to go to be as good as last year. 

Just consider this - Last season (33 games) Hope allowed 2 teams to score 70 or more points.  Trine had 70 (in Hope's only defeat of the year) and Millikin had 77 in the round of 32.  This season, Hope has already given up 73 to IWU and 77 to EWUC.  Also last seasson, Hope held 16 of their 33 opponents under 50 points!  This year they have done that once thus far.  Lots of work to do on the defensive side of the ball.

While the Geneva game (a 143-57 win by Hope) had some jaw dropping offense, it certainly isn't the norm (scoring 32 or more points in every Q, shooting over 60% from the field), nor should we expect that.  In the 4 games since that blow-out, Hope is averaging 91 points per game (last year the team avg was 85 for the full season). 

With all that said, I think the ceiling for this team is extremely high (like repeat the Natty high) - lots of room to grow and develop and adjust to their roles, since literally everyone not named Kate Majerus has a new role, and I would argue even her role is different. 
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: sac on November 29, 2022, 12:54:13 AM
I'm not sure its fair to compare any team to what amounts to a once a generation team that will probably never happen again.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on November 29, 2022, 08:22:54 AM
Quote from: sac on November 29, 2022, 12:54:13 AM
I'm not sure its fair to compare any team to what amounts to a once a generation team that will probably never happen again.

100%

Quote from: HOPEful on November 28, 2022, 08:59:44 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on November 23, 2022, 04:58:03 PM
...dare I say they may be better than they were last year...or at least have the potential to be better? 
...It's nearly impossible to judge any team in comparison to last year's team...

But not just once a generation. Once ever! Can you name another time you've seen a coach do entire line changes multiple times a game as part of their core philosophy/strategy? A team, mind you, with a couple All-Americans that had to fully buy-in to the philosophy, because it meant the 6-10th players would average 15-17 minutes a game. When in history has a 5th year POTY averaged just 20 minutes per game?

But Hope doesn't have that kind of depth and All-Americans might not be so keen on reduced minutes if not for a pandemic that stole two seasons of post-season play from those women. The whole team was selflessly laser focused on winning a national championship, since a change at the previous two was taken from them. They were special. Like ESPN should do a 30 for 30 episode on them special.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on November 29, 2022, 11:50:33 AM
Calvin shows up at #15 this week after a 5-0 start and knocking off Whitewater, who fell to #9 after the loss.

That makes tomorrow's game in Grand Rapids #1 v. #15. Hope's approach in previous seasons was to almost sell-out to stop Gabby and make someone else beat them. I'm sure they'll use some version of that approach tomorrow, but I have a feeling the Calvin star is excited to play a Hope team without Voskuil. I'm pretty sure it was Olivia, Claire, and Kate that spent the most time defending Timmer last season, so it'll be interesting to see how those duties are distributed amongst Kate, Claire, Savannah, and Kendall.

Sounds funny to say in November, but there really aren't that many games left this season that stand out as having the potential of getting in the way of Hope posting a perfect regular season record. This is one does.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Riley Zayas on November 29, 2022, 03:40:53 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on November 29, 2022, 11:50:33 AM
Calvin shows up at #15 this week after a 5-0 start and knocking off Whitewater, who fell to #9 after the loss.

That makes tomorrow's game in Grand Rapids #1 v. #15. Hope's approach in previous seasons was to almost sell-out to stop Gabby and make someone else beat them. I'm sure they'll use some version of that approach tomorrow, but I have a feeling the Calvin star is excited to play a Hope team without Voskuil. I'm pretty sure it was Olivia, Claire, and Kate that spent the most time defending Timmer last season, so it'll be interesting to see how those duties are distributed amongst Kate, Claire, Savannah, and Kendall.

Sounds funny to say in November, but there really aren't that many games left this season that stand out as having the potential of getting in the way of Hope posting a perfect regular season record. This is one does.

Very true. Honestly surprised Calvin jumped so high but regardless, they are playing very good basketball now. Gabby will have to be stopped by Hope's defense for the Flying Dutch to win comfortably, but Calvin has a few other shooters that will help. I don't know if it will be decided by single digits, but can't see a blowout win for Hope either.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on December 01, 2022, 08:45:06 AM
Hope 62, Calvin 56

Hope went up as many as 12 in the second half, but Gabby and Sydney always seemed to have an answer any time you thought Hope was going to blow the doors off. Hope was awful from 3, but Savannah, Ella, and Claire were excellent at both creating opportunities in the paint and getting to the line. If you take away Dirkse's 2, Calvin's starters averaged 4 fouls each.

Gabby hauled in 18 rebounds, but if Calvin hopes the game at Hope will be competitive again, they need to find more offensive production outside of Gabby, Leah, and Sydney shooting 3s. Valerie and Sara were completely shut down and anyone that Calvin put in off the bench didn't have much more success... (although, I was impressed with Allie Mayes the short time she was on the floor). I doubt Hope will shoot 4 for 20 from 3 next time they meet.

Calvin played the number 1 team in the country tough. They looked like a team worthy of being named the #15 team in the country.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 01, 2022, 01:44:59 PM
Pretty amazing for Hope to win a game with second half shooting of 18.5% from the field and 0% from 3.

Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Riley Zayas on December 01, 2022, 01:54:07 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on December 01, 2022, 01:44:59 PM
Pretty amazing for Hope to win a game with second half shooting of 18.5% from the field and 0% from 3.

Yeah but their defense was super impressive. Without that defensive pressure on Calvin and the forced TOs, I don't think Hope wins that game. Shows you that Hope doesn't need to score in mass quantities to win ballgames
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on December 01, 2022, 02:27:44 PM
Quote from: True To The Cru/Riley Zayas link=topic=4515.msg2065706#msg2065706...Shows you that Hope doesn't need to score in mass quantities to win ballgames...

That was definitely my takeaway from this game. Good teams can beat anyone on a good night, great teams find a way to win on off nights. Everyone not named Ella shot 2 for 15 from 3. In the fourth quarter, the team shot 14% from the field. But they found a way to extend the win streak to 22.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on December 01, 2022, 02:57:30 PM
Calvin's defense was awesome.  Elite teams like Hope get SO MANY points via turnovers and especially fast break points. They had less than 10 I believe vs Calvin. Hope isn't an elite half-court offense team and Calvin put them there for the bulk of the game.  (also, STOP DRIVING to Timmer's dominant hand).

Hope's defense was special and it needed to be. Timmer was going to beast but Calvin could rarely get the ball to her. The best two entry passes to Timmer on the night were bricked jump shots. Timmer offensively did not match the physicality of Hope's defense. A 30-pt game was there for her with a different offensive disposition.

Hope was more than happy to let Harris go 4-15 on largely mid-range jumpers. (the shot chart is telling -> Hope basically only shot from the circle in and from 3)

Love Morehouse posting up his guards down the stretch. That was the ideal half-court matchup, especially if you can get Timmer away from the bucket.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on December 03, 2022, 06:18:41 PM
Trine with a big win over Calvin this afternoon 60-45.  Our defense was terrific today, the box score will make it seem like we didn't contain Gabby Timmer as she finished with 20 pts, but we made her earn every bucket and forced her into 7 turnovers.  Offensively is was Sidney Wagner who carried us in the first half.  She is very good at getting around her defender and then pulling up 8-10 foot jumpshots which are silky smooth.  Most girls when they penetrate they think they need to get all the way to the rim and that is where they run into trouble with double teams and forced shots or bad passes.  In the second half we finally saw some 3s go down.  We had a 17 point lead early in the 4th quarter then Calvin quickly scored 10 straight that forced us into a timeout, score was 50-43.  We regained the momentum with some timely baskets and played lock down defense the rest of the way as Calvin only scored 2 points the last 4:45 of the game.  Alyssa Argyle hit some big shots in the 4th and finished with 11.  Wagner led the way with 19.  Sam Underhill played Gabby very physical and finished with 9 pts and 8 reb.  Sam's backup at center, freshman Abby Sanner, also did well, finishing with 6 pts and 6 reb.  She will eventually be a good one, you can already see her improvement from game 1 to game 7 as she continues to learn our offensive and defensive principles.  As a team we are still not shooting a good percentage which is a concern.  Calvin is a good team and will be a tough out for anyone in the MIAA. 
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on December 05, 2022, 09:16:01 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on December 03, 2022, 06:18:41 PM
Trine with a big win over Calvin this afternoon 60-45.  Our defense was terrific today, the box score will make it seem like we didn't contain Gabby Timmer as she finished with 20 pts, but we made her earn every bucket and forced her into 7 turnovers... 

The way to beat Calvin is not to stop Gabby. It's to contain her enough and keep anyone else from beating you. In the first quarter against Trine, Calvin players not named Gabby went 1-9. In the third quarter, it was 1-7. The 15 point difference in those two quarters was the difference in the end score.

Against Whitewater, Cleary and Harris were hitting threes. As a team, they went 5 for 10. Against Hope they went 6 for 21 and against Trine 3 for 14. Gabby will win you most games, regardless the opponent, if her guards are hitting 50% from behind the arc. If they're hitting 20%, itll be an uphill battle.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Riley Zayas on December 05, 2022, 06:45:46 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on December 05, 2022, 09:16:01 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on December 03, 2022, 06:18:41 PM
Trine with a big win over Calvin this afternoon 60-45.  Our defense was terrific today, the box score will make it seem like we didn't contain Gabby Timmer as she finished with 20 pts, but we made her earn every bucket and forced her into 7 turnovers... 

The way to beat Calvin is not to stop Gabby. It's to contain her enough and keep anyone else from beating you. In the first quarter against Trine, Calvin players not named Gabby went 1-9. In the third quarter, it was 1-7. The 15 point difference in those two quarters was the difference in the end score.

Against Whitewater, Cleary and Harris were hitting threes. As a team, they went 5 for 10. Against Hope they went 6 for 21 and against Trine 3 for 14. Gabby will win you most games, regardless the opponent, if her guards are hitting 50% from behind the arc. If they're hitting 20%, itll be an uphill battle.

No doubt. She is a fantastic player, but can't win games on her own, at least not against Calvin's two opponents this week. Feel the same way about Tufts at times...too reliant on Maggie Russell sometimes, it seems. But Calvin is deep and has good guard play. Just a matter of making shots when the defense is keying in on Gabby and 3s are open for the guards, which seemed to work in a number of their previous wins
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: gordonmann on December 06, 2022, 11:06:35 AM
Several good teams have this conundrum. Can they put enough talent along their top player to beat good teams? New Jersey City has it with Damarais Rodriguez, Millikin has it with Elyce Knudsen, etc.

It's a common situation in Division III hoops (men and women) and it's what separates elite programs from those with elite players.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on December 06, 2022, 11:40:03 AM
Week 2 Poll
#1, Hope +1 vote point, +0%
win road over Calvin
win home over Wittenberg

#18, Trine +30 vote points, +19%
win home over Calvin
win road over Adrian

#20, Calvin -95 vote point, -46%
loss home to Hope
loss road to Trine
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on December 08, 2022, 11:21:26 AM
Without meaning any disrespect, I genuinely wonder who benefits from Great Lakes Christian coming to Hope tonight? Great Lakes Christian lost to Albion two days ago 90-38. Hope gains nothing by beating an NCCAA team by the score of their choosing. GLCC gains nothing by getting shellacked for the second time in one week by a team completely out of their league.  Honestly, wouldn't a joint practice/scrimmage be more beneficial to both teams?
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: sac on December 08, 2022, 11:56:33 AM
Quote from: HOPEful on December 08, 2022, 11:21:26 AM
Without meaning any disrespect, I genuinely wonder who benefits from a Great Lakes Christian coming to Hope tonight? Great Lakes Christian lost to Albion two days ago 90-38. Hope gains nothing by beating an NCCAA team by the score of their choosing. GLCC gains nothing by getting shellacked for the second time in one week by a team completely out of their league.  Honestly, wouldn't a joint practice/scrimmage be more beneficial to both teams?

Very simple answer the head coach is a Hope grad.   https://glccathletics.com/sports/wbkb/coaches/CB_Long?view=bio


GLC is tiny, I drive by frequently wondering how they survive at all.   I check their schedule every year to see if anyone interesting is coming to town, but I've only managed to wander over there once to see Martin Luther.   I have noticed a difference in their scheduling lately from playing like schools (ie small christian or bible schools) at their level that required hours of travel to Kentucky, Tennessee etc to playing more of the NAIA/D3 programs in a tighter radius around Michigan, Ohio, Indiana. 

The women's program is relatively new, and there were a couple years where they only had 6 or 7 girls on the roster.  Much more healthy today.

Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 09, 2022, 07:52:58 AM
Quote from: sac on December 08, 2022, 11:56:33 AM
Quote from: HOPEful on December 08, 2022, 11:21:26 AM
Without meaning any disrespect, I genuinely wonder who benefits from a Great Lakes Christian coming to Hope tonight? Great Lakes Christian lost to Albion two days ago 90-38. Hope gains nothing by beating an NCCAA team by the score of their choosing. GLCC gains nothing by getting shellacked for the second time in one week by a team completely out of their league.  Honestly, wouldn't a joint practice/scrimmage be more beneficial to both teams?

Very simple answer the head coach is a Hope grad.   https://glccathletics.com/sports/wbkb/coaches/CB_Long?view=bio


GLC is tiny, I drive by frequently wondering how they survive at all.   I check their schedule every year to see if anyone interesting is coming to town, but I've only managed to wander over there once to see Martin Luther.   I have noticed a difference in their scheduling lately from playing like schools (ie small christian or bible schools) at their level that required hours of travel to Kentucky, Tennessee etc to playing more of the NAIA/D3 programs in a tighter radius around Michigan, Ohio, Indiana. 

The women's program is relatively new, and there were a couple years where they only had 6 or 7 girls on the roster.  Much more healthy today.

And (per the Holland Sentinel) - Hope had a cancellation and needed another game, so Coach Mo reached out to his former roommate CB Long - the GLC coach.   Actually Morehouse, Long, and Hope asst Colly Carlson all played together and roomed together at Hope.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on December 10, 2022, 05:53:25 PM
Very nice documentary on Hope WBB's journey over the past three years including the 61 game winning streak, the pressure, and Trine victory at Devos in front of 2400 fans that ended it; the team's tight knit relationships; Coach Mo's delight in being able to coach his daughter Meg, and of course the culmination of the journey with last year's national championship.

https://youtu.be/bnqjUGQ4Tlw
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Riley Zayas on December 12, 2022, 12:58:46 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on December 10, 2022, 05:53:25 PM
Very nice documentary on Hope WBB's journey over the past three years including the 61 game winning streak, the pressure, and Trine victory at Devos in front of 2400 fans that ended it; the team's tight knit relationships; Coach Mo's delight in being able to coach his daughter Meg, and of course the culmination of the journey with last year's national championship.

https://youtu.be/bnqjUGQ4Tlw

That was really well done!!
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on December 12, 2022, 09:49:48 AM
I'm really interested to see how Saturday's Trine @ Hope game goes down. Although Trine is deep, I have a hard time envisioning Sam having any level of success against Hope. Trine has great guard play that's capable of winning games when their opponent sells out to stop Sam from getting anything going inside, but this just feels like a matchup nightmare for Coach Rang. Then again, I've said that before and he's proven time and time again how great of a coach he is... so like I said, I'm really interested to see how Saturday goes.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on December 12, 2022, 01:29:44 PM
I am excited and interested as well.

I was quite down on Trine early in the year -> they didn't seem like a top 20 team to me.

Lately I dug into what I dubbed "big games", arbitrarily chosen as the games where the sum of both team's Massey ratings < 70.

There have been 46 such games this year.

Only 24 teams have played in > 1.

Trine has played in 3.

Looking at stats in just those games, Trine looks very good. Against BW, ONU, Calvin, Trine is averaging: +10.3 Pt Diff, +0.3 RebDiff, +2.0 TODiff.

Only Gustavus Adolphus, Hope, Trinity Texas, BW are better across those three metrics, in "big games"



   
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
TEAMCOUNTPt DiffReb DiffTO DiffSTAT
Gust Adolphus414.0 15.8 (4.0)25.8
Hope314.7 7.0 2.7 24.3
Trinity TX210.0 1.5 6.5 18.0
Baldwin-Wallace310.3 2.3 1.0 13.7
Trine310.3 0.3 2.0 12.7
UW-Whitewater77.3 3.4 1.9 12.6
UW-Oshkosh45.8 1.3 (0.3)6.8
UW-Eau Claire61.3 2.2 0.0 3.5
UW-Stout3(0.3)(0.3)2.0 1.3
Smith24.0 1.0 (5.0)0.0
UW-River Falls20.0 0.5 (1.0)(0.5)
Carroll4(0.3)(4.8)1.8 (3.3)
WashU2(4.5)12.0 (11.0)(3.5)
UW-LaCrosse3(3.7)(2.7)2.3 (4.0)
Roger Williams2(8.5)3.5 (2.5)(7.5)
IL Wesleyan4(9.5)(5.5)2.3 (12.8)
Bethel MN2(5.0)(11.5)2.5 (14.0)
Calvin3(6.3)(0.7)(8.0)(15.0)
Tufts3(8.7)(7.7)0.0 (16.3)
Millikin2(8.0)(12.0)2.0 (18.0)
Hardin-Simmons2(10.0)(1.5)(6.5)(18.0)
Wartburg2(12.0)(8.5)2.0 (18.5)
Augustana IL2(21.5)(3.5)(2.5)(27.5)
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on December 13, 2022, 12:11:12 PM
Week 3 Poll 
#1, Hope -1 vote point, -0% 
win road over Kalamazoo
 
#16, Trine +30 vote points, +19%  (they've added 30 vote points in each of the last two polls)
win home over Olivet
 
#22, Calvin -5 vote points, -2% 
win home over St. Mary's Indiana
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on December 13, 2022, 12:56:01 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on December 13, 2022, 12:11:12 PM
Week 3 Poll 
#1, Hope -1 vote point, -0% 
win road over Kalamazoo

I have no problem with voters believing NYU is actually slightly better than Hope currently. I have said the same thing since the start of the year. I do think it's strange 1 win against Tufts was enough to push a voter that voted Hope #1 in weeks 1 and 2 to swap Hope and NYU this week. Seems to me that after beating Eau Clare and at Calvin, Hope's certainly only improved their resume since the start of the season. I wonder if Hope beats Trine this weekend, will that same voter swap back?
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 13, 2022, 01:14:45 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on December 13, 2022, 12:56:01 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on December 13, 2022, 12:11:12 PM
Week 3 Poll 
#1, Hope -1 vote point, -0% 
win road over Kalamazoo

I have no problem with voters believing NYU is actually slightly better than Hope currently. I have said the same thing since the start of the year. I do think it's strange 1 win against Tufts was enough to push a voter that voted Hope #1 in weeks 1 and 2 to swap Hope and NYU this week. Seems to me that after beating Eau Clare and at Calvin, Hope's certainly only improved their resume since the start of the season. I wonder if Hope beats Trine this weekend, will that same voter swap back?

I suspect they were unaware Tufts was without Maggie Russell.  If NYU had beaten Tufts by 20 with Russell, that would've been a real statement win.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on December 13, 2022, 01:40:00 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 13, 2022, 01:14:45 PM
I suspect they were unaware Tufts was without Maggie Russell.  If NYU had beaten Tufts by 20 with Russell, that would've been a real statement win.

And yet, Emory did it and is still unranked!? Their only loss is to a very good MHB team.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on December 13, 2022, 02:48:05 PM
Agreed on Emory. I'd also push up Framingham St. Oshkosh, Gustavus Adolphus, Stout.

Though on Emory, depending on how you view Massey, the MHB loss is not a great one. 47 losses by teams that received votes. Emory's loss to MHB is the "17th worst loss per Massy rating."  That said, there are 10 teams that received more votes than Emory, that have a "worse loss (per the same Massey rating criteria)"

I'm surprised none of these teams have received any votes:
St. Benedict
UW-Stevens Point
UW-LaCrosse
Wartburg

Ohio Wesleyan is a pretty bad pick for #25.

I also don't really see ETBU, Catholic, Stevens, Messiah, Mary Washington, Cortland St., Trinity Conn, Washington & Jefferson as top 25 teams.

The group of Hope, Trine, Calvin, Albion, might be as strong as the top 4 in any other conference (maybe WIAC better?). But like any very strong top of the conference, losses by any are gonna keep them from rising higher in the polls, even if they're a very strong team.

Calvin losing by 6 to Hope is akin to Springfield losing by 4 to Amherst (akin, but IMO far more impressive), but the body of Calvin's wins are far more impressive than anything Springfield has done.   Alas, Calvin's loss to Trine will keep them far below Springfield, rightly or wrongly. (I think Calvin would beat Springfield).
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on December 13, 2022, 05:28:57 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on December 12, 2022, 09:49:48 AM
I'm really interested to see how Saturday's Trine @ Hope game goes down. Although Trine is deep, I have a hard time envisioning Sam having any level of success against Hope. Trine has great guard play that's capable of winning games when their opponent sells out to stop Sam from getting anything going inside, but this just feels like a matchup nightmare for Coach Rang. Then again, I've said that before and he's proven time and time again how great of a coach he is... so like I said, I'm really interested to see how Saturday goes.
With the game being played in Holland I don't see Trine keeping this one within 15 points.  It will all come down to defense for us as we don't have the offensive firepower that Hope has, not even close.  We have struggled with perimeter shooting.  No one has been consistent.  I was expecting the Sloneker twins to add much more offensive punch for Trine this year and it just hasn't happened.  Underhill is good defensively but she too has struggled with her 10-15 ft shots.  Freshman Abby Sanner at 6'2 has been improving each and every game I've watched (she backsup Underhill).  But I am afraid in her first game against Hope whether she'll be able to contribute like she has.  Our best athletes are at guard with Wagner, Argyle, Ardis and Hinds.  Hinds has been out with the flu so not sure if she'll be 100% or not.  Freshman Addison Hutson has been getting more playing time and is a good 3 pt shooter if left open.  Transfer Katie Tate from Grand Rapids CCHS is a guard who wants to play like a forward.  I'd like to see her pull up more as she mostly gets into trouble trying to take the ball to the rim.  Wagner is going to have to score close to 20 for us to keep it close, she's by far the best on the team at creating her own shot.  I'd like to see her start but probably won't happen until next year after Ardis graduates. 
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: sac on December 13, 2022, 09:49:28 PM
masseyratings likes Hope by 10 hosting Trine   (by 5 in Angola right now)


Quote from: scottiedawg on December 13, 2022, 02:48:05 PM

Calvin losing by 6 to Hope is akin to Springfield losing by 4 to Amherst (akin, but IMO far more impressive), but the body of Calvin's wins are far more impressive than anything Springfield has done.   Alas, Calvin's loss to Trine will keep them far below Springfield, rightly or wrongly. (I think Calvin would beat Springfield).
it splits a hypothetical Springfield/Calvin game by home court advantage to the winner by 2 at Calvin, 4 at Springfield
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on December 14, 2022, 11:23:25 AM
Quote from: sac on December 13, 2022, 09:49:28 PM
masseyratings likes Hope by 10 hosting Trine   (by 5 in Angola right now)


Quote from: scottiedawg on December 13, 2022, 02:48:05 PM

Calvin losing by 6 to Hope is akin to Springfield losing by 4 to Amherst (akin, but IMO far more impressive), but the body of Calvin's wins are far more impressive than anything Springfield has done.   Alas, Calvin's loss to Trine will keep them far below Springfield, rightly or wrongly. (I think Calvin would beat Springfield).
it splits a hypothetical Springfield/Calvin game by home court advantage to the winner by 2 at Calvin, 4 at Springfield

LOL we did exactly the same thing.  Yup, Massey thinks there's very very little between those two teams.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on December 14, 2022, 03:26:37 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on December 13, 2022, 05:28:57 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on December 12, 2022, 09:49:48 AM
I'm really interested to see how Saturday's Trine @ Hope game goes down. Although Trine is deep, I have a hard time envisioning Sam having any level of success against Hope. Trine has great guard play that's capable of winning games when their opponent sells out to stop Sam from getting anything going inside, but this just feels like a matchup nightmare for Coach Rang. Then again, I've said that before and he's proven time and time again how great of a coach he is... so like I said, I'm really interested to see how Saturday goes.
With the game being played in Holland I don't see Trine keeping this one within 15 points.  It will all come down to defense for us as we don't have the offensive firepower that Hope has, not even close.  We have struggled with perimeter shooting.  No one has been consistent.  I was expecting the Sloneker twins to add much more offensive punch for Trine this year and it just hasn't happened.  Underhill is good defensively but she too has struggled with her 10-15 ft shots.  Freshman Abby Sanner at 6'2 has been improving each and every game I've watched (she backsup Underhill).  But I am afraid in her first game against Hope whether she'll be able to contribute like she has.  Our best athletes are at guard with Wagner, Argyle, Ardis and Hinds.  Hinds has been out with the flu so not sure if she'll be 100% or not.  Freshman Addison Hutson has been getting more playing time and is a good 3 pt shooter if left open.  Transfer Katie Tate from Grand Rapids CCHS is a guard who wants to play like a forward.  I'd like to see her pull up more as she mostly gets into trouble trying to take the ball to the rim.  Wagner is going to have to score close to 20 for us to keep it close, she's by far the best on the team at creating her own shot.  I'd like to see her start but probably won't happen until next year after Ardis graduates.
I tend to agree with you. But I've predicted Hope to blow out Trine one too many times now, only to have egg on my face later, that I just won't do it. Still... I just don't see how they get it done without Kelsey, Tara, and Rachael... Maybe if Alyssa, Makayla, Alexis, and Addison catch lightening in a bottle?
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: gordonmann on December 14, 2022, 04:27:34 PM
QuoteAgreed on Emory. I'd also push up Framingham St. Oshkosh, Gustavus Adolphus, Stout.

I was surprised that Emory lost votes, too. So surprised that I double checked the votes to make sure i didn't miscalcuate something. But people just changed their mind, I guess.

It's an interesting question whether the Top 4 in the MIAA are better than the Top 4 elsewhere.

I agree that the WIAC is the conference whose top four looks strongest to me, admittedly without putting a lot of thought into it.  Calvin (#2 or #3 in MIAA) over UW-Whitewater (#1 or #2 in WiAC) helps a lot there.

The UAA has three ranked teams at comparable levels to the MIAA. Right now I'd give the edge to the MIAA, but I'd probably take Emory (Lost to UMHB, beat Tufts) over Albion (lost to .500 OWU, does not have a signature win). And Rochester/Trine is close enough to make me pause.

The poll suggests that the NEWMAC should be in the conversation (three teams in the Top 11). I think this could be a case where voters don't know how to differentiate between these three teams and they float up the rankings together until they play each other.

And it would not be shocking for the NESCAC to get there by the end of the year, if Amherst's young talent continues to develop and Russell plays consistently for Tufts. Bowdoin was really down last year but brought a lot of talent back. Trinity's a tough matchup because of its size.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on December 15, 2022, 10:13:02 AM
Conference play will be awesome. We'll get Chicago v. Whitewater-like matchups all the time. 

12/19 is a great date for games too
Scranton-Wartburg
Christopher Newport-Cortland St.
Trinity Texas-Mary Hardin Baylor

12/17 ain't bad either
Hope-Trine
Carroll-Millikin
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: pointlem on December 17, 2022, 08:37:15 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on December 13, 2022, 05:28:57 PM
With the game being played in Holland I don't see Trine keeping this one within 15 points. . . .
TUAngola . . . a 76 to 64 Trine upset to gladden your heart. Trine's 31-point 3rd quarter explosion on 61% shooting wasn't something any of us expected. I've never seen a team shred Hope's defense like that.

The game ball goes to sophomore Sidney Wagner. Though the press report will surely focus on her 29 points on 11 of 17 shooting in 28 minutes, she also had 6 assists and handled the ball beautifully under pressure.

Meanwhile, a lid was on the basket for Hope. Its 29% shooting included so many missed close up shots, and a 3 for 19 off-day by star guard Ella McKinney.

I credit Trine for a great game, but also call it a mulligan for Hope's women, who will hope to replicate last season's road wins at Trine.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on December 17, 2022, 09:46:25 PM
I was at the Trine men's basketball game today so had the phone out watching the game, as did several others in the stands.  I was quite surprised by the outcome today, especailly down a starter in Katie Tate.  I wonder if she was a victim of the flu that's been going around campus?  But that absence opened the door for Sidney Wagner to start and boy did she come thru.  I've been singing her praises since last year as a freshman that she was going to be a good one.  The win will be a big confidence boost for the girls.  Now they have a quick turnaround with back to back games in Florida Monday and Tuesday against North Park and Wartburg.  Then finish up the non-conference schedule with another tournament at DePauw against UW-Eau Clair and either DePauw or Marian.   
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: ronk on December 17, 2022, 10:50:21 PM
 Sydney impressed me last year in the Hope games that I watched so that it was surprising that she doesn't start this season. Of the Trine guards that played today, she was the best at ballhandling, play judgment, and shooting.
In Florida, Wartburg plays Scranton, then Trine, so we'll have a better idea of the relative merits of the 3 teams.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on December 20, 2022, 05:14:23 PM
Trine guts out a win over Wartburg today after beating North Park yesterday down in St Pete, FL.  Trine played 3 games in 4 days so was nice to see them come out on a winning note today over a sound Wartburg team, that although now has 4 losses they have all been to quality teams in Scranton, UW-Eau Claire, and UW-Oshkosh.  I kept track of the live stats today at work.  Trine had built a 15 pt lead in the 3rd quarter but the Knights went on a 16-0 run spanning the 3rd and 4th quarters to go up 1.  Trine battles back to eeck out the win.  Sierra Hinds with a career high 19 pts today with 5 triples, Wagner with 15 and Underhill has a double/double with 15/11.  I'm a little concerned over the struggles turning the ball over, had 22 against NP and another 19 today. Girls now go home for Christmas before finishing up non-con schedule with games at the DePauw tournament a week from Thurs/Fri against UW-Eau Claire and most likely DePauw.  If you would have told me at the beginning of the season we'd be 9-2 right now I wouldn't have believed it because of graduating so much talent from last year and the strength of the non-con schedule and also playing Hope in December.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: gordonmann on December 22, 2022, 01:40:49 PM
Trine needs to receive some kind of bonus SOS points for playing that many good teams in such a short period of time.

This is like when Thomas More had the Globe Trotter style schedule because they didn't have a conference to play in.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on December 29, 2022, 06:11:06 PM
Trine loses to UW Eau Claire 75-68.  UWEC outscores Trine 44-18 over the 2nd and 3rd quarters and led by as many as 18 points.  Trine claws back and got it to within 3 in the 4th quarter but couldn't come all the way back.  Trine will play in the consolation game tomorrow at 2pm. 
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: pointlem on December 30, 2022, 07:51:44 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on December 29, 2022, 06:11:06 PM
Trine loses to UW Eau Claire 75-68. . . .
. . . which lost to Hope, which lost to Trine (which is why we play the games rather than trust score comparisons).

Meanwhile, Hope was smoking hot this weekend, with two ~20 point wins . . . against 10-1 Carnegie-Mellon on Friday and Otterbein today (on 57% shooting). The lid that was on the basket for Trine v Hope was lifted this weekend, and the basket enlarged. Claire Baguley led the way today with 21 points (9 of 10 shooting) in 22 minutes.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 03, 2023, 01:43:13 PM
Curious if anyone knows what has happened with Carlee Crabtree?  She played in all of Hope's games through the Trine loss (10 games) but then didn't play last week in OH and is no longer listed on the Hope roster. 

Seems her minutes are going to Lauren Leach who played well shooting 4-7 from 3 in the two games in OH. 
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: pointlem on January 04, 2023, 09:49:43 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on January 03, 2023, 01:43:13 PM
Curious if anyone knows what has happened with Carlee Crabtree?  She played in all of Hope's games through the Trine loss (10 games) but then didn't play last week in OH and is no longer listed on the Hope roster. 

Seems her minutes are going to Lauren Leach who played well shooting 4-7 from 3 in the two games in OH.
Curiously, Lauren Leach is on the Hope roster, but does not appear--unless I'm missing something--in Hope women's BB stats for last weekend or season:
https://athletics.hope.edu/sports/womens-basketball/stats
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 04, 2023, 10:05:21 AM
Quote from: pointlem on January 04, 2023, 09:49:43 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on January 03, 2023, 01:43:13 PM
Curious if anyone knows what has happened with Carlee Crabtree?  She played in all of Hope's games through the Trine loss (10 games) but then didn't play last week in OH and is no longer listed on the Hope roster. 

Seems her minutes are going to Lauren Leach who played well shooting 4-7 from 3 in the two games in OH.
Curiously, Lauren Leach is on the Hope roster, but does not appear--unless I'm missing something--in Hope women's BB stats for last weekend or season:
https://athletics.hope.edu/sports/womens-basketball/stats

OK - so I have found that there has been a season long mix-up in stats for Karsen Karlblom and Lauren Leach.  The Hope website has it correct, with Karsen as #5 and Lauren as #33. 

The MIAA website (where I was pulling my stats) has them mixed up, showing Karsen as #33 and Lauren as #5.  This has lead to Lauren getting all of Karsen's stats and vice versa (althoughg Lauren has yet to appear in a game). 

My appologies for the confusion - and congrats to the great work by Karsen Karlblom so far this year. 
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: pointlem on January 05, 2023, 09:09:43 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on January 04, 2023, 10:05:21 AM
Quote from: pointlem on January 04, 2023, 09:49:43 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on January 03, 2023, 01:43:13 PM
Curious if anyone knows what has happened with Carlee Crabtree?  She played in all of Hope's games through the Trine loss (10 games) but then didn't play last week in OH and is no longer listed on the Hope roster. 

Seems her minutes are going to Lauren Leach who played well shooting 4-7 from 3 in the two games in OH.
Curiously, Lauren Leach is on the Hope roster, but does not appear--unless I'm missing something--in Hope women's BB stats for last weekend or season:
https://athletics.hope.edu/sports/womens-basketball/stats

OK - so I have found that there has been a season long mix-up in stats for Karsen Karlblom and Lauren Leach.  The Hope website has it correct, with Karsen as #5 and Lauren as #33. 

The MIAA website (where I was pulling my stats) has them mixed up, showing Karsen as #33 and Lauren as #5.  This has lead to Lauren getting all of Karsen's stats and vice versa (althoughg Lauren has yet to appear in a game). 

My appologies for the confusion - and congrats to the great work by Karsen Karlblom so far this year.
Not your mixup, FDF. Last night's Live Stats showed Leach getting minutes and points as #5. But today's Hope women's box score from last night showed Karlblom getting those points and minutes as #5. So your confusion is understandable.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 05, 2023, 09:30:43 AM
Thanks pointlem - I've noted that whatever system/data that is being used or shared has this wrong as well as has Olivia Bellows listed as Olivia Bellow (no s).  Makes tracking stats a pain...

Spoeaking of tracking stas, I had to share this: Claire Baguley has been having one heck of a season thus far shooting the ball, and the last two games have just been outstanding.  Here are her offenmsive stats for those two games and the season:

Game ------------------ Min/G ----- Pts/G ----- FGs ----- FG% ----- 3FG ----- 3FG% ----- FTs ----- FT% ---- Points/40 min
1/4 @ Alma -----------   21    -----  26   ----- 10-12 --- 0.833 ----- 3-4 ----- 0.750 ----- 3-4 ----- 0.750 -------- 49.5
12/30 vs Otterbein----   22    -----  21   -----  9-10 --- 0.900 ------ 1-1 ----  1.000 ----- 2-2 ----- 1.000 -------- 38.2

Season ----------------   20    ---- 13.6  ---- 67-103 --- 0.650 ---- 15-25 ---  0.600 ---- 28-35 --- 0.800 -------- 27.2
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on January 07, 2023, 01:37:09 PM
Missed Courtney Lee getting 2, 6, 3 minutes in the past 3 games. Great to have her back!
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on January 08, 2023, 02:50:10 PM
Trine WBB wins comfortably over SMC yesterday.  Good to see a productive shooting day behind the 3 pt line.  Wagner, Ardis and Tate all with nice offensive games.  Everyone on the roster got at least 4-5 minutes or more.  For the bad news it appears that we will be without starter Sam Underhill for the rest of her senior year, who suffered a knee injury in the UWEC game on 12/29. :(  That will make us very small, yesterday our tallest starter was 5'10.  I can't remember the last time we haven' had at least one starter 6' tall or more.  6'2 Freshman Sanner will more than likely see more minutes out of necessity in the middle, especially agianst bigger teams.  Right now she isn't starting but that could change sooner than later.  Important sub Hines is also out but hopefully she'll be back soon.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 13, 2023, 12:43:57 PM
Per Twitter, Hope lands what looks to be an excellent recruit for next season:

Peyton Holcomb (Benicia CA)a 5-9 four year Varsity player, who 1/2 way through her senior season has already amassed some awesome stats (in 69 games):  1086 pts, 123 made 3s, 81% FT. 723 reb, 221 ast, 172 stls, 1.64 a/TO
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: sac on January 14, 2023, 10:36:14 PM
Albion 69 Hope 53  F

Albion was simply terrific today.  Well earned and very deserving W.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: sac on January 14, 2023, 10:46:15 PM
https://team1sports.com/gobrits/?B=449171
At the 1:55:40 mark Albion gets tied up in a jump ball and is awarded the possession.  Note there's only :20 seconds left in the quarter, this should be an easy sequence to remember.

Quarter ends,  I notice the scorers table arguing with the official about possession to start the fourth quarter,  the camera angle doesn't pick up enough of the interchange which is a shame.  The tall black haired official holds her ground and insists its Hope's ball to start the 4Q.  But the woman who I would recognize as the head official, someone I also recognize as being one of the state's top women's/girls basketball officials comes in and has the arrow pointed to Albion.

So Albion is awarded possession to start the 4th Q

This was really strange and probably incorrect.


Does women's basketball not do possession as the game rolls or is possession awarded by quarter?



Also, Albion replaced its scoreboards this year.  But this is about the 5th year in a row I've left there with an in game scoring error.  Everyone left that game thinking the final was 70-53, I see now its listed as 69-53.   You gotta get the score right guys, there are protocols to follow at the table with the scoreboard/scorebook etc.  That just shouldn't happen as frequently as it has.

Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on January 15, 2023, 07:35:38 AM
I feel the difference in Albion being a good team and Albion being a "top 20ish" type team is the play of Riley Davis.  I've been watching her for a few years now and there are games where she sort of disappears, but then there are other games, like yesterday against Hope, where she is Albion's best player.  Athletically she has the tools.  I think she needs to look for her shot more as she can score.  Also my vote for most improved player in the MIAA is most certainly Daniah Beavers, she played great yesterday.  For Hope if was a very poor shooting performance again, and their bench game them nothing, which is very "unHopelike".  Albion comes to Angola on Wednesday and can take over first in the MIAA with a win against the Thunder.  Without Underhill this one will be tough as we don't have the size to match up with Beavers other than Abby Sanner.  It will be interesting to see if Coach Rang lets Abby get her first start or if we'll continue to play 'small' with Katie Sloneker starting out in the post with Abby coming off the bench.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on January 19, 2023, 05:24:05 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on January 15, 2023, 07:35:38 AM
I feel the difference in Albion being a good team and Albion being a "top 20ish" type team is the play of Riley Davis.  I've been watching her for a few years now and there are games where she sort of disappears, but then there are other games, like yesterday against Hope, where she is Albion's best player.  Athletically she has the tools.  I think she needs to look for her shot more as she can score.  Also my vote for most improved player in the MIAA is most certainly Daniah Beavers, she played great yesterday.  For Hope if was a very poor shooting performance again, and their bench game them nothing, which is very "unHopelike".  Albion comes to Angola on Wednesday and can take over first in the MIAA with a win against the Thunder.  Without Underhill this one will be tough as we don't have the size to match up with Beavers other than Abby Sanner.  It will be interesting to see if Coach Rang lets Abby get her first start or if we'll continue to play 'small' with Katie Sloneker starting out in the post with Abby coming off the bench.

Last night the Trine WBB with just a phenomenal defensive performance against Albion.  I think this year's team might be a little better defensively than last year's team (Massey ratings has them as #1 defense).  We started off with Katie Sloneker defending Daniah Beavers in the post, 5'10 vs 6'3.  Katie did a great job, she is more physical than what you think.  Beavers finished with 11 pts but we did a good job with Katie and also freshman Abby Sanner denying post entry passes.  Another key was Alyssa Argyle's defense on Riley Davis, again we played Riley with a smaller defender, but Alyssa is super quick for a small forward and Davis was frustrated all game.  Offensively it was Sidney Wagner carrying us in the first half with 15 of her 19 points before halftime, and then Makayla Ardis carrying us in the second half with 17 of her 18 points coming after halftime, she was 'feeling it' in the 4th quarter.  Obviously one of our better all around games this year.  We came out and stifled Albion from the get go and they never recovered.

The gals are off Saturday so they get a week to prepare for Hope next Wednesday.  This is our girls 'rivalry' game as it's always a war when we meet up.  Hope will no doubt be gunning for revenge after the loss in December, and they always play very well at MTI.  It's been several years since we've beaten them in Angola, it might have been Brandi Dawson's senior year the last time Trine got a 'W' at home against the Dutch.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Dutchfan on January 21, 2023, 04:26:54 PM
Does anyone know why Sydney Vis sat out for Hope today against Albion?
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 25, 2023, 03:19:47 PM
Should be a great game tonight @ Trine - a dire need for Hope to win this to be in the race for the conference. 

Massey ranks Hope #2 and Trine #11 overall.  For Offense Hope is #2 & Trine #41.  For Defense Trine is #1 & Hope #25.  Massey predicts a final score of Hope 67 Trine 61

The history between these two teams has been really been some amazing basketball - especially in more recent seasons.  Since Trine joined the MIAA for the '04-05 season, The records look like this:

Hope - Trine
39 - 8 Overall
21 - 5 @ Hope
17 - 3 @ Trine
  1 - 0 @ Neutral site (Final Four last year)

Pretty dominant by Hope, as they were 27-1 versus Trine through the first 12 seasons.  But that has certainly changed in the last 6+ seasons, that is the '16-17 season - today

Hope - Trine
12 - 7 Overall
  5 - 5 @ Hope
  6 - 2 @ Trine
  1 - 0 @ Neutral

Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on January 25, 2023, 09:38:55 PM
Terrific game by Hope tonight.  Everything was on point; shooting, rebounding, ball movement, going after 50/50 balls...they just wanted it more.  Hope had Trine's defense running in circles with their excellent ball movement and hit the wide open 3's, especially in the first half.  Without Underhill Hope had size on us at every position.  And our other big Sanner was battling illness but still tried to make a go of it.  Trine did make a run in the 3rd quarter to get it to within 6, but Hope built the lead back up to 18 by the end of the quarter.  Mikayla Ardis was fantastic tonight, she was the only reason it wasn't a bigger win for the Dutch.  Wagner struggled the first half but had a better second, but we didn't get much production out of anyone else.  If you're not hitting shots against Hope it's going to be a long night because they don't miss.     
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on January 26, 2023, 04:07:46 PM
Morehouse and Feenstra hitting 3s was a big deal. Relatively they are not the best Hope 3 pt shooters, and teams had been playing them softer, almost daring them to shoot it, while negating the dribble drive. Dam was opened in a hurry when they both connected early.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 26, 2023, 04:37:22 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on January 26, 2023, 04:07:46 PM
Morehouse and Feenstra hitting 3s was a big deal. Relatively they are not the best Hope 3 pt shooters, and teams had been playing them softer, almost daring them to shoot it, while negating the dribble drive. Dam was opened in a hurry when they both connected early.

Yeah, big time on the relatively!  Hope as a team is leading the nation in 3pt% .386, as well as total FG% .489.  Feenstra (.326) and Morehouse (.333) are the two "worst" 3pt shooters in the starting 5, with McKinney (.381), Majerus (.429), and Baguley (.576)!  There are many teams that would love to have a single player with a .326/.333 percentage.  Daring anyone on Hope to shoot a 3 seems like a risky business

Hope has 11 players who have attemped more than one 3pt per game this season.  Of those 11 players, the lowest # of attemps in 19 games is 23.  Of those 11 players, the lowest 3pt % is .276.  The next lowest percentage is Feenstra (.326).
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: NW Hope Fan on January 28, 2023, 06:29:25 PM
Nice week for Hope with a 26 point turn around against Trine, and a 45 point turn around against Albion.
they keep playing like this and will have another deep tournament run. #GoHope
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on January 28, 2023, 06:55:50 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on January 26, 2023, 04:37:22 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on January 26, 2023, 04:07:46 PM
Morehouse and Feenstra hitting 3s was a big deal. Relatively they are not the best Hope 3 pt shooters, and teams had been playing them softer, almost daring them to shoot it, while negating the dribble drive. Dam was opened in a hurry when they both connected early.

Yeah, big time on the relatively!  Hope as a team is leading the nation in 3pt% .386, as well as total FG% .489.  Feenstra (.326) and Morehouse (.333) are the two "worst" 3pt shooters in the starting 5, with McKinney (.381), Majerus (.429), and Baguley (.576)!  There are many teams that would love to have a single player with a .326/.333 percentage.  Daring anyone on Hope to shoot a 3 seems like a risky business

Hope has 11 players who have attemped more than one 3pt per game this season.  Of those 11 players, the lowest # of attemps in 19 games is 23.  Of those 11 players, the lowest 3pt % is .276.  The next lowest percentage is Feenstra (.326).

I think you hit the appropriate emphasis FDF  ;D   I did choose my words carefully.

Baguley's offensive efficiency is so impressive. Her sharp shooting is making Majerus' look pedestrian by comparison!!

Add in Karlblom(!!!!), Garner, and Kaiser and there's no rest for opponents.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on January 28, 2023, 07:00:07 PM
I'm getting a similar feeling to last season (not about a title, just about a turnaround) when the team went through a woeful FT shooting stretch, then it all turned around (I think Coach said in an interview that was a point of emphasis during practice).

This squad just seemed a little imprecise, a little off, a little stagnant, during the stretch where they took 2 losses and even in surrounding games where they were still able to overwhelm overmatched opponents.  All of that feeling seems to have evaporated (likely due to a bunch of hard work, mixed with some randomness and a tad better officiating ;-) ) and they currently look awesome.

They even look better than that early season stretch where they dispatched IWU, WiscLuth, Eau Claire, Calvin, Wittenberg.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: sac on January 29, 2023, 04:41:10 PM
I'll say what I said 2 weeks ago.

Hope played a wonderful game of basketball Saturday.


3 clear differences
1.  Hope's ball movement and spacing were much better yesterday
2.  Albion's overall energy level was lower, esp evaporated after 1Q
3.  Hope contained Beavers, Davis and Reed particularly Davis who was excellent at Albion.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on January 30, 2023, 06:22:26 PM
Just noticed that Hope is leading the nation in team FG % and also in team 3pt %.  Quite impressive!  I must admit it makes me a little nervous not to see the Dutch among the team defensive leaders as has been the case in recent years, but I guess at the end of the day the team that scores the most wins.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: sac on January 31, 2023, 12:08:34 PM
Grayson Guy  6-1 F  Petoskey has committed to Hope


There are 4 'Guys' on the Petoskey girls roster, those driveway games must be something.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on January 31, 2023, 01:54:08 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 30, 2023, 06:22:26 PM
Just noticed that Hope is leading the nation in team FG % and also in team 3pt %.  Quite impressive!  I must admit it makes me a little nervous not to see the Dutch among the team defensive leaders as has been the case in recent years, but I guess at the end of the day the team that scores the most wins.

Voskuil was such a defensive cheat code.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on January 31, 2023, 03:46:07 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on January 31, 2023, 01:54:08 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 30, 2023, 06:22:26 PM
Just noticed that Hope is leading the nation in team FG % and also in team 3pt %.  Quite impressive!  I must admit it makes me a little nervous not to see the Dutch among the team defensive leaders as has been the case in recent years, but I guess at the end of the day the team that scores the most wins.

Voskuil was such a defensive cheat code.

I thought the exact same thing when I first read Roundball's post.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on January 31, 2023, 06:41:42 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on January 31, 2023, 03:46:07 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on January 31, 2023, 01:54:08 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 30, 2023, 06:22:26 PM
Just noticed that Hope is leading the nation in team FG % and also in team 3pt %.  Quite impressive!  I must admit it makes me a little nervous not to see the Dutch among the team defensive leaders as has been the case in recent years, but I guess at the end of the day the team that scores the most wins.

Voskuil was such a defensive cheat code.


I thought the exact same thing when I first read Roundball's post.

From an outsiders perspective, after watching the Hope/Trine game in Angola I do believe that Hope is not as good a defensive team as in years past, and not just because they are missing Voskuil dominating the paint.  Hope always used to pick you up defensively 3/4 court or at least at halfcourt and hound you relentlessly to get you out of your offensive sets.  I know that they would turn Trine over at least 25 times a game because of their defensive intensity.  They don't have that this year.  Trine only had 7 turnovers in the game last week.  That's not to say that they don't have a good defense, but it's not their calling card this year.  My belief is it's because Coach Morehouse doesn't have a true platoon system as in years past.  This year he has to pick his spots to substitute, whether it's one, two or more players at a time.  I do like a couple of their freshmen, Karlbom and Kaiser are going to be good ones, but Hope just isn't as deep as in years past.  Offensively they are very capable of playing with anyone in the country.  They had 6 different players hit 3 pointers in the 1st quarter alone against Trine.  Baguley was very impressive against us, a lot of girls at this level sort of have 'ugly' shooting form from behind the arc, but Baguley's shot is effortless, and she is sneaky quick to drive to the hoop if needed. 
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Dutchfan on January 31, 2023, 11:39:40 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 30, 2023, 06:22:26 PM
Just noticed that Hope is leading the nation in team FG % and also in team 3pt %.  Quite impressive!  I must admit it makes me a little nervous not to see the Dutch among the team defensive leaders as has been the case in recent years, but I guess at the end of the day the team that scores the most wins.
Hope doesn't just lead the nation in FG% (48.7%) and 3pt FG% (38.9%), but they are also number 6 in 3-pointers per-game (9.4 per game).
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 01, 2023, 11:11:06 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on January 31, 2023, 06:41:42 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on January 31, 2023, 03:46:07 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on January 31, 2023, 01:54:08 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on January 30, 2023, 06:22:26 PM
Just noticed that Hope is leading the nation in team FG % and also in team 3pt %.  Quite impressive!  I must admit it makes me a little nervous not to see the Dutch among the team defensive leaders as has been the case in recent years, but I guess at the end of the day the team that scores the most wins.

Voskuil was such a defensive cheat code.


I thought the exact same thing when I first read Roundball's post.

From an outsiders perspective, after watching the Hope/Trine game in Angola I do believe that Hope is not as good a defensive team as in years past, and not just because they are missing Voskuil dominating the paint.  Hope always used to pick you up defensively 3/4 court or at least at halfcourt and hound you relentlessly to get you out of your offensive sets.  I know that they would turn Trine over at least 25 times a game because of their defensive intensity.  They don't have that this year.  Trine only had 7 turnovers in the game last week.  That's not to say that they don't have a good defense, but it's not their calling card this year.  My belief is it's because Coach Morehouse doesn't have a true platoon system as in years past.  This year he has to pick his spots to substitute, whether it's one, two or more players at a time.  I do like a couple of their freshmen, Karlbom and Kaiser are going to be good ones, but Hope just isn't as deep as in years past.  Offensively they are very capable of playing with anyone in the country.  They had 6 different players hit 3 pointers in the 1st quarter alone against Trine.  Baguley was very impressive against us, a lot of girls at this level sort of have 'ugly' shooting form from behind the arc, but Baguley's shot is effortless, and she is sneaky quick to drive to the hoop if needed.

Yep, I think the different rotation has led to some different defensive strategies.

I think Voskuil elevated everything else Hope did defensively. She could clean up or fix any other defensive mistake.

Trine crushed Hope earlier this year because Trine could keep possession long enough to make the extra pass. Hope "cheats" a lot defensively (traps, double teams, jumping passing lanes, not guarding the skip pass player) and relies heavily on aggressive weak side switching. Basically daring teams to beat them by moving the ball. Most teams can't sustain possession against that. Trine could and crushed us. 

Last year Voskuil just ruined possession after possession.

I'm a Washington fan and am reminded of when Mike Hopkins became our head coach. He came from Syracuse under Jim Boeheim and ran the same defensive zone philosophy. Our defense was phenomenal that year because we had Matisse Thybulle up top, who had crazy long arms, very much like Voskuil.

Our defense after he graduated was much worse, not necessarily because the scheme sucked or the players weren't good. Just because Thybulle was that unique and that much of a force-multiplier.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on February 01, 2023, 04:59:44 PM
Trine with a big game at Albion tonight.  They need to win to keep their 1 game lead in the conference.  Albion plays very well at home so a loss will not be totally unexpected.     
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: sac on February 01, 2023, 10:49:53 PM
Albion 63 Trine 62

All tied at the top with Trine, Hope, Calvin

Feb 8    Calvin @ Hope
Feb 11  Trine @ Calvin
Feb 18  Calvin @ Albion

Real big game next Wed in Holland, Hope likely would grab a piece of the MIAA Championship if they win.  Championship makeup decided next week.


Last minute of Albion/Trine is worth the watch alone
https://team1sports.com/gobrits/?B=449176

great final play by Albion
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on February 02, 2023, 07:39:14 AM
Quote from: sac on February 01, 2023, 10:49:53 PM
great final play by Albion

Absolutely baller play call. Knowing Deavers would be doubled, trust in your player to make the perfect back door cut, and your inbounder to time and make the long lob... that play doesn't work, you look silly. It works, and you look like a genius. Baller.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: sac on February 02, 2023, 12:01:42 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on February 02, 2023, 07:39:14 AM
Quote from: sac on February 01, 2023, 10:49:53 PM
great final play by Albion

Absolutely baller play call. Knowing Deavers would be doubled, trust in your player to make the perfect back door cut, and your inbounder to time and make the long lob... that play doesn't work, you look silly. It works, and you look like a genius. Baller.

Its actually a real popular end of game play in the women's game.  This one certainly highlighted the advantage of moving the ball to mid-court on a timeout.  Hope's used  it or a variation at least twice to win games in recent years. 

The men tend to run this play looking for a corner three opposite the inbounds spot.



In your tie-breaker all three beating Calvin mean Hope/Trine are tied with 2 losses, Calvin would have 5, Albion 4,  Hope/Trine tie-break would probably fall to record in 2nd half of conference season and both would be 6-2, which then brings up the issue of the non-mirrored schedule.    I don't have the actual tie-break in front of me, but eventually you get to record vs regionally ranked team which  I think means Trine's two losses to Eau Claire and Ohio Northern would give Hope the 1 seed (if the tie-break fell that far)

I'll see if I can dig it up , its buried in my messages somewhere.

Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on February 02, 2023, 12:32:09 PM
Quote from: sac on February 02, 2023, 12:01:42 PM
In your tie-breaker all three beating Calvin mean Hope/Trine are tied with 2 losses, Calvin would have 5, Albion 4,  Hope/Trine tie-break would probably fall to record in 2nd half of conference season and both would be 6-2, which then brings up the issue of the non-mirrored schedule.    I don't have the actual tie-break in front of me, but eventually you get to record vs regionally ranked team which  I think means Trine's two losses to Eau Claire and Ohio Northern would give Hope the 1 seed (if the tie-break fell that far)

I'll see if I can dig it up , its buried in my messages somewhere.

Hope's loss to Trine was first half. They'd win the tiebreaker. My mind was overcomplicating the situation.

But your point on a non-mirrored schedule does have me intrigued. Is the "first half" and "second half" determined by first and second time playing each school or literally first 8 conference games and second 8 conference games, regardless of teams played and not played?
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 02, 2023, 12:47:14 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on February 02, 2023, 12:32:09 PM
Quote from: sac on February 02, 2023, 12:01:42 PM
In your tie-breaker all three beating Calvin mean Hope/Trine are tied with 2 losses, Calvin would have 5, Albion 4,  Hope/Trine tie-break would probably fall to record in 2nd half of conference season and both would be 6-2, which then brings up the issue of the non-mirrored schedule.    I don't have the actual tie-break in front of me, but eventually you get to record vs regionally ranked team which  I think means Trine's two losses to Eau Claire and Ohio Northern would give Hope the 1 seed (if the tie-break fell that far)

I'll see if I can dig it up , its buried in my messages somewhere.

Hope's loss to Trine was first half. They'd win the tiebreaker. My mind was overcomplicating the situation.

But your point on a non-mirrored schedule does have me intrigued. Is the "first half" and "second half" determined by first and second time playing each school or literally first 8 conference games and second 8 conference games, regardless of teams played and not played?

Right - Trine is 1-2 in their last 3 games, were outrebounded by 15 in both of the losses, and are struggling a bit on offense.  I expect their upcoming game @ Calvin to be pretty tough for the Thunder.  They beat Calvin 60-45 in Angola way back on December 3 (Trine won the rebounding battle by 3).  Of course that was before loosing Sam Underhill for the season.  Without Sam, I expect Gabby Timmer and Calvins size to really control the boards.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on February 02, 2023, 05:42:49 PM
Quote from: sac on February 02, 2023, 12:01:42 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on February 02, 2023, 07:39:14 AM
Quote from: sac on February 01, 2023, 10:49:53 PM
great final play by Albion

Absolutely baller play call. Knowing Deavers would be doubled, trust in your player to make the perfect back door cut, and your inbounder to time and make the long lob... that play doesn't work, you look silly. It works, and you look like a genius. Baller.

Its actually a real popular end of game play in the women's game.  This one certainly highlighted the advantage of moving the ball to mid-court on a timeout. Hope's used  it or a variation at least twice to win games in recent years. 

The men tend to run this play looking for a corner three opposite the inbounds spot.



In your tie-breaker all three beating Calvin mean Hope/Trine are tied with 2 losses, Calvin would have 5, Albion 4,  Hope/Trine tie-break would probably fall to record in 2nd half of conference season and both would be 6-2, which then brings up the issue of the non-mirrored schedule.    I don't have the actual tie-break in front of me, but eventually you get to record vs regionally ranked team which  I think means Trine's two losses to Eau Claire and Ohio Northern would give Hope the 1 seed (if the tie-break fell that far)

I'll see if I can dig it up , its buried in my messages somewhere.

I still vividly remember the exact same play Hope executed on an out of bounds play as I was at DeVos the night it happened.  The date, Feb 24, 2018, MIAA championship game.  Trine's Hayley Martin scores with 2 seconds left to break a tie to put the Thunder up 2 in regulation with 2 seconds left.  I was thinking game over, but not so fast.  Hope calls timeout, they get the ball at halfcourt (which I despise this rule, it should be a uniform rule for men and women, but that's for another conversation).  Newman throws a beautiful lob pass to a wide open Geers under the basket who lays it in at the buzzer to tie the game, and Hope goes on to win in OT.  Heartbreak for Trine.

I watched the last couple minutes of last night's game on replay and it was the exact same type of play.  Do we not learn??  I'd almost rather play a zone so nobody get's screened on defense and then take my chances with the other team taking a contested outside shot.  It would of been heartbreak for Albion if they had lost as they led pretty much the entire game and would have salted it away had Beavers not been so atrocious at the free throw line. 

As FDF has stated losing Underhill was devastating for us.  We just aren't as deep this year to make up for her loss, especially at the '5' spot.  We had 5 girls play 31 or more minutes last night with Wagner playing 40.  I haven't seen that happen at Trine in ages.  I see Katie Sloneker only logged 7 minutes last night so I wonder if she got injured?  That won't be good.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on February 05, 2023, 10:52:59 AM
Was doing a little research after the Albion loss, the last time that Trine lost an MIAA conference game to an opponent not named Hope was way back on January 27, 2016 against Adrian, over 7 years ago.  Pretty impressive streak by the Thunder!
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on February 07, 2023, 09:29:36 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 05, 2023, 10:52:59 AM
Was doing a little research after the Albion loss, the last time that Trine lost an MIAA conference game to an opponent not named Hope was way back on January 27, 2016 against Adrian, over 7 years ago.  Pretty impressive streak by the Thunder!

Same for Hope... I believe for them it was February of 2016 against Calvin the previous time they lost to someone not named Trine. Albion ending a couple long streaks this season!! Hope and Trine have really dominated the MIAA that past 7 years!!
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on February 09, 2023, 08:06:12 AM
After last night's game, Calvin is now 37-12 over the last two seasons. Of those 12 losses, 5 are to Hope and 3 are to Trine. Or... they are an incredible 37-4 against teams not from Holland or Angola. Last season, they went 19-2 against teams that didn't make the final four (0-6 against Whitewater, Hope, and Trine).

That's all my long-winded lead-in to saying that this is a very good, well coached Calvin team.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on February 09, 2023, 08:13:32 AM
Quote from: HOPEful on February 09, 2023, 08:06:12 AM
After last night's game, Calvin is now 37-12 over the last two seasons. Of those 12 losses, 5 are to Hope and 3 are to Trine. Or... they are an incredible 37-4 against teams not from Holland or Angola. Last season, they went 19-2 against teams that didn't make the final four (0-6 against Whitewater, Hope, and Trine).

That's all my long-winded lead-in to saying that this is a very good, well coached Calvin team.

Agreed.  MIAA is certainly much more interesting than 5+ years ago when it was Calvin and Hope, or Hope and Calvin, then everyone else.  Trine seems to be a fixture now near the top of the league and for several years Albion has given those top 3 some real challenges as well.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: pointlem on February 09, 2023, 08:51:00 AM
A well-played (by both teams) Hope-Calvin game last evening. I love Hope's offense—with Meg Morehouse always ripping up court, pushing the ball up to a racing wing, even at the risk of a turnover . . . and then players frequently driving the lane—risking a turnover, a missed layup, or a blocked shot, but also making baskets, drawing fouls, and distributing the ball to an open 3-point shooter (and why not, given their nation-leading 39% 3-point percentage, not to mention their overall nation-leading shooting percentage).
3-pt stats: https://www.ncaa.com/stats/basketball-women/d3/current/team/118 
overall shooting stats: https://www.ncaa.com/stats/basketball-women/d3/current/team/114

Even with the graduation of most of last year's national championship starters, including a dominant, shot-blocking/altering center, this year's team—led by last year's bench—is achieving its potential. Moreover, they always look like they're having great fun. Kudos to the coaches and players.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: jspiii on February 09, 2023, 10:24:20 AM
At one point in the 3rd quarter, Hope had a rotation of one senior (Morehouse), one sophomore (Garner) and 3 freshman (Sietsma, Karlblom & Kaiser). Sietsma did get schooled a few times by Gaby Timmer though. Learning under pressure. Loved it!
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on February 09, 2023, 11:11:17 AM
Quote from: jspiii on February 09, 2023, 10:24:20 AM
Sietsma did get schooled a few times by Gaby Timmer though. Learning under pressure. Loved it!
I mean... if Gabby isn't taking advantage of the freshman, Calvin's not doing it right :)

I thought after last season, there was no way this year's team would come anywhere close to that level of play. And they've surpassed my expectations. I'm not sure if any of the seniors intend to return for a 5th year, but assuming not, losing Meg, Claire, Kate, Ella, and Savannah would elicit the same response. But if Garner, Sietsema, Karlblom, Kaiser, and Jemison want to prove me wrong once again, I'll be ok with it.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 09, 2023, 11:36:10 AM
First regional rankings are out (at least on the NCAA website):

https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-women/d3/regional-rankings-0

The first one is just in alphabetical order.  Hope, Trine, and Calvin are all ranked in region 7.  I did a quick check of schedules to get to a vRRO (versus Regionaly Ranked Opponent) record for each - since that comes into play in the next rankings which will be "seeded".  Here is what I found

Record vRRO
Hope 4-1
Trine 3-4
Calvin 1-3

The Trine @ Calvin game on Saturday has significant implications - not only only the MIAA race & tournament seeding, but also relative to vRRO.  Ultimately who gets inot the NCAA tournament may come down to vRRO results.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: sac on February 09, 2023, 12:27:29 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 09, 2023, 08:13:32 AM
Quote from: HOPEful on February 09, 2023, 08:06:12 AM
After last night's game, Calvin is now 37-12 over the last two seasons. Of those 12 losses, 5 are to Hope and 3 are to Trine. Or... they are an incredible 37-4 against teams not from Holland or Angola. Last season, they went 19-2 against teams that didn't make the final four (0-6 against Whitewater, Hope, and Trine).

That's all my long-winded lead-in to saying that this is a very good, well coached Calvin team.

Agreed.  MIAA is certainly much more interesting than 5+ years ago when it was Calvin and Hope, or Hope and Calvin, then everyone else.  Trine seems to be a fixture now near the top of the league and for several years Albion has given those top 3 some real challenges as well.

This is easily the most interesting women's title race in at least Mo's time at Hope, possibly in the leagues history.  Four NCAA quality teams

Hope was 2 full games back of Trine on Jan 14, they've all but clinched a share of the championship in less than a month with 3 games remaining against teams they've beaten by 57, 46 and 56.  Quite a turnaround.


All four teams seem capable of wining the league tournament and making a run at a 2nd weekend in the NCAA.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on February 09, 2023, 02:55:27 PM
Quote from: sac on February 09, 2023, 12:27:29 PM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 09, 2023, 08:13:32 AM
Quote from: HOPEful on February 09, 2023, 08:06:12 AM
After last night's game, Calvin is now 37-12 over the last two seasons. Of those 12 losses, 5 are to Hope and 3 are to Trine. Or... they are an incredible 37-4 against teams not from Holland or Angola. Last season, they went 19-2 against teams that didn't make the final four (0-6 against Whitewater, Hope, and Trine).

That's all my long-winded lead-in to saying that this is a very good, well coached Calvin team.

Agreed.  MIAA is certainly much more interesting than 5+ years ago when it was Calvin and Hope, or Hope and Calvin, then everyone else.  Trine seems to be a fixture now near the top of the league and for several years Albion has given those top 3 some real challenges as well.

This is easily the most interesting women's title race in at least Mo's time at Hope, possibly in the leagues history.  Four NCAA quality teams

Hope was 2 full games back of Trine on Jan 14, they've all but clinched a share of the championship in less than a month with 3 games remaining against teams they've beaten by 57, 46 and 56.  Quite a turnaround.


All four teams seem capable of wining the league tournament and making a run at a 2nd weekend in the NCAA.

Trine's been in the mix for at least 7+ years, going back to the end of 2016 is when they started realizing they can play with the Hope's and Calvin's.  Getting a gal of Brandi Dawson's caliber to come to Trine was huge, and it has snowballed from there.  Also the coaching has been very good since that time too, first with Ryan Gould (terminated/let go) and now Andy Rang (who was on Ryan's staff).

Losing Sam Underhill to a season ending knee surgery in late December was devastating for Trine.  We just don't have the inside presence that we had before, especially defense and rebounding.  With Sam in the lineup we don't lose that second game with Albion. 

I am heading up to Grand Rapids Saturday to watch the Trine/Calvin twinbill, WBB & MBB.  Both have MIAA seeding implications, and maybe even whether Trine gets into the Dance if they don't win the MIAA post season tournament.  Do I feel good about either game?  Honestly no, the Calvin ladies are due for a win against us, and they've been knocking on the door the last few meetings.  6'3 Timmer against 5'10 Sloneker is not ideal, we do have 6'2 Sanner rotating in at center, it will be interesting to see if she ends up getting the most minutes against Timmer, provided she can stay out of foul trouble.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on February 09, 2023, 03:02:32 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 09, 2023, 02:55:27 PM
Losing Sam Underhill to a season ending knee surgery in late December was devastating for Trine.  It can't be understated enough.  We just don't have the inside presence that we had before, especially defense and rebounding.  With Sam in the lineup we don't lose that second game with Albion. 

I completely agree. Trine is a completely different team without Sam. Hope's men's team is a completely different team without Evan (or with a hobbled, ineffective Evan). It's sad when a team that has so much promise when healthy doesn't meet that potential due to injury. It's a part of the game, but it's still a bummer.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 09, 2023, 03:40:06 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 09, 2023, 11:36:10 AM
First regional rankings are out (at least on the NCAA website):

https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-women/d3/regional-rankings-0

The first one is just in alphabetical order.  Hope, Trine, and Calvin are all ranked in region 7.  I did a quick check of schedules to get to a vRRO (versus Regionaly Ranked Opponent) record for each - since that comes into play in the next rankings which will be "seeded".  Here is what I found

Record vRRO
Hope 4-1
Trine 3-4
Calvin 1-3

The Trine @ Calvin game on Saturday has significant implications - not only only the MIAA race & tournament seeding, but also relative to vRRO.  Ultimately who gets inot the NCAA tournament may come down to vRRO results.

I've got Calvin at 2-4 FDF.  Wins over Colorado Col and Whitewater.  Losses to Hope x2, Trine, Loras.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 09, 2023, 03:57:17 PM
Here's what I think the situation is in Region 7

1 - Hope
2 - Ohio Northern
3 - Baldwin Wallace
GAP
4 - Marietta
5 - Calvin
6 - Washington & Jefferson
7 - Trine
GAP
8 - Wittenberg
9 - Case Western
10 - Albion

I think it will be hard for 4-7 to fall out of the top 7, even with > 1 more loss. Maaaaybe W&J cause they have the lowest SOS.

The Calvin Trine game is indeed massive.

Any loss by Marietta or Calvin likely moves them down a spot.

I am assuming W&J gets the PAC Pool A, but we'll have to wait to find out for sure.

It would be very nice for the MIAA team who is 2nd highest in this region (whether it's Calvin or Trine), to be the 2nd team to the Pool C table (after whoever doesn't get the OAC Pool A).

Marietta losing to Wilmington, Capital, or Heidelberg would help a lot in that department.

The winner of Calvin-Trine puts themselves in a really nice spot.

I don't think Marietta winning the OAC Pool A would be a bid thief.

Albion winning the MIAA Pool A would.

Any team other than W&J winning the PAC would.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 09, 2023, 05:07:06 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 09, 2023, 03:40:06 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 09, 2023, 11:36:10 AM
First regional rankings are out (at least on the NCAA website):

https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-women/d3/regional-rankings-0

The first one is just in alphabetical order.  Hope, Trine, and Calvin are all ranked in region 7.  I did a quick check of schedules to get to a vRRO (versus Regionaly Ranked Opponent) record for each - since that comes into play in the next rankings which will be "seeded".  Here is what I found

Record vRRO
Hope 4-1
Trine 3-4
Calvin 1-3

The Trine @ Calvin game on Saturday has significant implications - not only only the MIAA race & tournament seeding, but also relative to vRRO.  Ultimately who gets inot the NCAA tournament may come down to vRRO results.

I've got Calvin at 2-4 FDF.  Wins over Colorado Col and Whitewater.  Losses to Hope x2, Trine, Loras.

You are correct, I missed Col Col :)
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on February 15, 2023, 05:08:24 PM
First regional rankings are out.  Top 7 dominated by the OAC and MIAA, with W&J from the PAC in 7th.  Surprised Hope isn't at least 2nd, and I was thinking Trine would be 4th.  OAC must have better strength of schedule?  The 2 losses Calvin had last week weren't all that detrimental as they were to Hope and Trine.  Out of Trine's 5 losses 4 of them are to reginally ranked teams (Ohio Northern, Baldwin Wallace, Hope and UW-Eau Claire), Trine does have 4 wins against regionally ranked teams (Calvin 2x, Hope, and Wartburg).
           
   Region 7       
1    Ohio Northern     20-3   20-3
2    Baldwin Wallace   20-3   20-3
3    Hope                   20-2   21-2
4    Marietta              17-6   17-6
5    Trine                   18-5   18-5
6    Calvin                 17-5    18-5
7    Washington & Jefferson   21-2   21-2
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: gordonmann on February 15, 2023, 05:15:31 PM
Yeah, you can find our SOS calculations here (https://www.d3hoops.com/seasons/women/2022-23/schedule?tmpl=sos-template), with the caveat that these calculations update every day and the NCAA's don't include results from games this week.

16 Marietta
24 Ohio Northern
35 Baldwin Wallace
80 Trine
93 Hope
122 Calvin
236 W&J

Otterbein (49), Mount Union (82) and Muskingum (97) are also in the Top 100.

At a glance, it looks like the next highest MIAA team after the three above is Alma at 212. Albion is close behind at 215.

Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 16, 2023, 01:01:04 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 15, 2023, 05:08:24 PM
First regional rankings are out.  Top 7 dominated by the OAC and MIAA, with W&J from the PAC in 7th.  Surprised Hope isn't at least 2nd, and I was thinking Trine would be 4th.  OAC must have better strength of schedule?  The 2 losses Calvin had last week weren't all that detrimental as they were to Hope and Trine.  Out of Trine's 5 losses 4 of them are to reginally ranked teams (Ohio Northern, Baldwin Wallace, Hope and UW-Eau Claire), Trine does have 4 wins against regionally ranked teams (Calvin 2x, Hope, and Wartburg).
           
   Region 7       
1    Ohio Northern     20-3   20-3
2    Baldwin Wallace   20-3   20-3
3    Hope                   20-2   21-2
4    Marietta              17-6   17-6
5    Trine                   18-5   18-5
6    Calvin                 17-5    18-5
7    Washington & Jefferson   21-2   21-2

For the life of me I can't get BW above Hope. Probably won't be after their loss to John Carroll. Probably doesn't matter for hosting though--I think Hope's geography makes them an opening weekend lock to host. (right now)

The committee looks to be giving nice bumps for SOS above 550-570, so I can see how Marietta's SOS gap more than made up for the WP gap. It's a big deal though, if both need a Pool C, for Marietta to be at the table ahead of Trine.

As far as I know, I don't think the committees are evaluating "the goodness/badness" of specific losses, since that's already incorporated into the WP and SOS.

Here's how I see the region, through yesterday:


   
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
TeamWinning %NCAA SOSW vRRO
Ohio Northern0.875 0.570 4.000
Hope0.913 0.539 4.000
Baldwin Wallace0.833 0.571 4.000
Marietta0.750 0.600 3.000
Trine0.792 0.537 4.000
Washington & Jefferson0.917 0.491 1.000
Calvin0.783 0.518 2.000
Wittenberg0.818 0.485 1.000
Case Western0.636 0.553 2.000
DePauw0.708 0.534 0.000
Otterbein0.625 0.560 0.000
St. Vincent0.810 0.480 0.000
Albion0.682 0.499 2.000
La Roche0.700 0.493 0.000
Carnegie Mellon0.500 0.598 0.000
Penn State-Behrend0.783 0.449 0.000
Oberlin0.609 0.487 0.000
Grove City0.609 0.487 0.000
Ohio Wesleyan0.583 0.526 1.000
John Carroll0.542 0.557 1.000

Marietta is also 3-3 against Common Opponents.  Trine is 1-2
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: pointlem on February 18, 2023, 02:45:41 PM
I expect none of us will live long enough to see another quarter of women's basketball shooting like Hope's first quarter against Kalamazoo today. I'm not referring to the 41 to 5 first quarter lead, but to the 16 of 17 shooting, including 9 of 9 threes without a rim touch. (I'm presuming that their game's 21 3-point makes is a team, if not a league, record.)

And to think that the all-senior starting lineup was essentially last year's bench. That was a national championship team with depth—two top-ten teams in one lineup.

The year-after-year Hope women's BB culture, including the evident joy and camaraderie, is a such a pleasure to follow. Small wonder the continued recruiting success and fan support.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on February 20, 2023, 08:03:12 AM
https://miaa.org/sports/wbkb/2022-23/releases/TournamentCentral

Women's tournament direct link...
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on February 20, 2023, 08:07:54 AM
I am just not a fan of going back to one site for the semis. Trine is the co-champion and shouldn't have to travel to Hope to play a neutral game against likely Calvin.

At least this season the host school isn't the same for both men and women. 1:30 and 3:30 Friday semis on a neutral court are poorly attended and a horrible way to showcase your #2 and #3 teams.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on February 20, 2023, 08:14:59 AM
Quote from: HOPEful on February 20, 2023, 08:07:54 AM
I am just not a fan of going back to one site for the semis. Trine is the co-champion and shouldn't have to travel to Hope to play a neutral game against likely Calvin.

At least this season the host school isn't the same for both men and women. 1:30 and 3:30 Friday semis on a neutral court are poorly attended and a horrible way to showcase your #2 and #3 teams.

Agreed.  If the semis were always a highly attended "event" for both games I'd say maybe it makes sense but as it is, seems to me the higher seed should host each game.  They earned it.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on February 20, 2023, 08:23:47 AM
Quote from: pointlem on February 18, 2023, 02:45:41 PM
I expect none of us will live long enough to see another quarter of women's basketball shooting like Hope's first quarter against Kalamazoo today. I'm not referring to the 41 to 5 first quarter lead, but to the 16 of 17 shooting, including 9 of 9 threes without a rim touch. (I'm presuming that their game's 21 3-point makes is a team, if not a league, record.)

And to think that the all-senior starting lineup was essentially last year's bench. That was a national championship team with depth—two top-ten teams in one lineup.

The year-after-year Hope women's BB culture, including the evident joy and camaraderie, is a such a pleasure to follow. Small wonder the continued recruiting success and fan support.


That first quarter was amazing to watch, the entire team was unconscious.  9 threes in a quarter without a miss, wow.

But according to the MIAA record book, the 21 threes was not a record.  That belongs to Trine 1/8/2005 when they made 22 vs. Albion.  That same year Trine also set the record for attempts in a game, hoisting 53 on 2/2/2005 vs Alma.  Seems like the 3 pointer was a major part of Trine's offense that year. Am I remembering correctly that the women's 3 point line was closer at that time?
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 20, 2023, 08:43:11 AM
Quote from: HOPEful on February 20, 2023, 08:07:54 AM
I am just not a fan of going back to one site for the semis. Trine is the co-champion and shouldn't have to travel to Hope to play a neutral game against likely Calvin.

At least this season the host school isn't the same for both men and women. 1:30 and 3:30 Friday semis on a neutral court are poorly attended and a horrible way to showcase your #2 and #3 teams.

Respectfully, but COMPLETELY disagree.  The semi's and final in a single location literally prepares the winning team (or teams if a Pool C selections happen) for the NCAA tournament.  It's also a great atmosphere for the games to be back to back - there is more energy and excitement, for both the fans and the players.  Playing individual games at seperate locations just feels like an extension of the league season - which at this point the players are ready to be done with. 

I also think the impact on attendance is not as you might be expecting:

Last season the semi's were hosted as you prefer.  Hope hosted Calvin, and Trine hosted Alma.  Hope had 1650 attend, Trine had 638.

In the 19-20 season (last time the semi's were hosted at a single location), Hope hosted - Trine vs Albion followed by Hope vs Calvin.  The Trine/Albion game had an attendance of 650 - while Trine's avg home attendance that season was 330.    The Hope/Calvin game had 2079 attend - while Hope's avg attendance was 1038
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: pointlem on February 20, 2023, 09:39:22 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 20, 2023, 08:43:11 AM
Quote from: HOPEful on February 20, 2023, 08:07:54 AM
I am just not a fan of going back to one site for the semis. Trine is the co-champion and shouldn't have to travel to Hope to play a neutral game against likely Calvin.

At least this season the host school isn't the same for both men and women. 1:30 and 3:30 Friday semis on a neutral court are poorly attended and a horrible way to showcase your #2 and #3 teams.

Respectfully, but COMPLETELY disagree.  The semi's and final in a single location literally prepares the winning team (or teams if a Pool C selections happen) for the NCAA tournament.  It's also a great atmosphere for the games to be back to back - there is more energy and excitement, for both the fans and the players.  Playing individual games at seperate locations just feels like an extension of the league season - which at this point the players are ready to be done with. 

I also think the impact on attendance is not as you might be expecting:

Last season the semi's were hosted as you prefer.  Hope hosted Calvin, and Trine hosted Alma.  Hope had 1650 attend, Trine had 638.

In the 19-20 season (last time the semi's were hosted at a single location), Hope hosted - Trine vs Albion followed by Hope vs Calvin.  The Trine/Albion game had an attendance of 650 - while Trine's avg home attendance that season was 330.    The Hope/Calvin game had 2079 attend - while Hope's avg attendance was 1038
FDF, I'm 99% of the time with you . . . but I vote with Hopeful and Roundball on this one. Plus the MIAA could a) reward the #2 seed fans with another home game, b) sell two houses instead of one for the semis, c) not risk a championship game with no home team and low attendance, and d) not risk both men's and women's teams on a top-seed school jamming the Friday semis schedule. 

On the other hand, as a Hope fan this way I get to watch two games on Friday.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 20, 2023, 10:13:31 AM
Quote from: pointlem on February 20, 2023, 09:39:22 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 20, 2023, 08:43:11 AM
Quote from: HOPEful on February 20, 2023, 08:07:54 AM
I am just not a fan of going back to one site for the semis. Trine is the co-champion and shouldn't have to travel to Hope to play a neutral game against likely Calvin.

At least this season the host school isn't the same for both men and women. 1:30 and 3:30 Friday semis on a neutral court are poorly attended and a horrible way to showcase your #2 and #3 teams.

Respectfully, but COMPLETELY disagree.  The semi's and final in a single location literally prepares the winning team (or teams if a Pool C selections happen) for the NCAA tournament.  It's also a great atmosphere for the games to be back to back - there is more energy and excitement, for both the fans and the players.  Playing individual games at seperate locations just feels like an extension of the league season - which at this point the players are ready to be done with. 

I also think the impact on attendance is not as you might be expecting:

Last season the semi's were hosted as you prefer.  Hope hosted Calvin, and Trine hosted Alma.  Hope had 1650 attend, Trine had 638.

In the 19-20 season (last time the semi's were hosted at a single location), Hope hosted - Trine vs Albion followed by Hope vs Calvin.  The Trine/Albion game had an attendance of 650 - while Trine's avg home attendance that season was 330.    The Hope/Calvin game had 2079 attend - while Hope's avg attendance was 1038
FDF, I'm 99% of the time with you . . . but I vote with Hopeful and Roundball on this one. Plus the MIAA could a) reward the #2 seed fans with another home game, b) sell two houses instead of one for the semis, c) not risk a championship game with no home team and low attendance, and d) not risk both men's and women's teams on a top-seed school jamming the Friday semis schedule. 

On the other hand, as a Hope fan this way I get to watch two games on Friday.

Sorry, but I don't think your points a) and b) are completely valid.  Attendance at MIAA tournament games is not good compared to regular season attendance (escpecially for Hope & Calvin - where the tournament games cost $$ above and beyond season tickets).  Your points c) and d) are certainly a concern for me as well - but I still believe the atmosphere is simply different when they are played in one place - somthing that those in attendance as well as (and more importantly) those playing the game can feel and experience.  I know in the past that teams who travel to play in these combined semi's have treated it very different than just a road game.  They have stayed in hotels, made something special out of it, and turned it into a great experience for the student-athletes. 
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on February 20, 2023, 10:22:28 AM
I will concede that a single host site is more representative of the NCAA tournament than individual hosts. I think Trine would sell that advantage 10 times out of 10 to get to host vs. get the "playoff atmosphere experience." If the games weren't on a weekday night, I might feel differently. But fans will have to leave Angola at 3 pm on Friday to get to Hope in time for the women's game or Calvin in time for the men's game. The alternative was a doubleheader at MTI.

As to your statistics, I would argue two points...

1. I would be interested in knowing what percentage of those in attendance were fans of the host school that arrived early to get good seats for the game they really cared about and catch the "other" game. The atmosphere is NOT the same when it's the host school's fans half-heartedly rooting against their rival and/or the favorite. Assuming chalk, even if a Trine v Calvin game at Hope is well attended, it just won't be the same as if the game was in Angola.

2. It's not always fair to compare attendance against the average. Calvin, for example, gets significantly more fans in Van Noord when they're hosting Hope or for meaningful games late in the season than they do earlier in the season when students are often not on campus and/or on January term. For a MIAA tournament, you really ought to be comparing to the numbers v. the top attended games. Even then though, to revisit my first point, it's still not fully fair to compare attendance at DeVos vs. other MIAA schools. Hope just has such an amazing women's basketball following that is unlike anywhere else in the country, let alone the MIAA. The amount of Hope fans that will arrive early to catch the first game and get good seats is probably higher than the average attendance at most MIAA women's games.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: calvin_grad on February 20, 2023, 11:30:25 AM
Quote from: HOPEful on February 20, 2023, 10:22:28 AM
2. It's not always fair to compare attendance against the average. Calvin, for example, gets significantly more fans in Van Noord when they're hosting Hope or for meaningful games late in the season than they do earlier in the season when students are often not on campus and/or on January term. For a MIAA tournament, you really ought to be comparing to the numbers v. the top attended games. Even then though, to revisit my first point, it's still not fully fair to compare attendance at DeVos vs. other MIAA schools. Hope just has such an amazing women's basketball following that is unlike anywhere else in the country, let alone the MIAA. The amount of Hope fans that will arrive early to catch the first game and get good seats is probably higher than the average attendance at most MIAA women's games.

FYI, Calvin no longer has Interim in January.  2nd semester starts right after the new year.  Although that may be changing back to the way it was....
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on February 20, 2023, 11:40:53 AM
Quote from: calvin_grad on February 20, 2023, 11:30:25 AM
FYI, Calvin no longer has Interim in January.  2nd semester starts right after the new year.  Although that may be changing back to the way it was....
Good to know! Did they determine the benefit wasn't worth the pain of getting out later than most other schools?
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on February 20, 2023, 12:04:14 PM
I disagree on one school hosting the semifinals.  I get what your saying about making it feel more like a tournament atmosphere, but most schools have already had that type of atmosphere at least once, possibly more, with in season 'tournaments' in November and December to replicate how the ncaa tournmament will feel.  The only thing this format rewards is for the #1 seed.  Trine had terrific years in both WBB and MBB to earn the #2 seed, but their 'reward' is to play at the #1 seed's gym at 5:30, not their own.  Other than parents and family there will be few if any other 'fans' of Trine there for an early Friday night game, but it's rewarding Calvin (assuming they beat Adrian, which is pretty much a lock) the easy travel to Hope for family and fans who won't have to miss work/school.  I guarantee there will be more Hope fans at the Trine/Calvin game than of both those schools combined...easily.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on February 20, 2023, 12:17:55 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 20, 2023, 12:04:14 PM
I guarantee there will be more Hope fans at the Trine/Calvin game than of both those schools combined...easily.

I agree. But who will they be rooting for?

I think it's an easier answer without Sam as the separation between the two isn't as great. I think it'd have to be a fairly significant upset for a Hope fan to root for Calvin. Still, Hope fans rooting for Trine will not be with the same vim as Trine fans rooting for Trine.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on February 20, 2023, 01:21:46 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on February 20, 2023, 12:17:55 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 20, 2023, 12:04:14 PM
I guarantee there will be more Hope fans at the Trine/Calvin game than of both those schools combined...easily.

I agree. But who will they be rooting for?

I think it's an easier answer without Sam as the separation between the two isn't as great. I think it'd have to be a fairly significant upset for a Hope fan to root for Calvin. Still, Hope fans rooting for Trine will not be with the same vim as Trine fans rooting for Trine.

I don't think Hope fans will necessarily root for either team.  Hope fans just want to do a little 'scouting' for the Saturday night matchup with either Calvin or Trine.

I got teary eyed at Trine's game Saturday with Adrian for Senior Day.  Sam was dressed and was in the starting lineup with her crutches.  Both teams/coaches had prearranged on how the tip would go.  We line up for the tip with Sam positioned near the sideline by Trine's bench.  We 'win' the tip and promptly travel delivering the ball to Sam for one last touch in a game.  Lots of hugs and tears from the players and coaches and a standing ovation from the crowd for Sam as she gets subbed out.  Thanks to Adrian WBB for the kind gesture. :)
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on February 20, 2023, 02:06:58 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 20, 2023, 01:21:46 PM
I don't think Hope fans will necessarily root for either team.  Hope fans just want to do a little 'scouting' for the Saturday night matchup with either Calvin or Trine.

Agreed. But I've been to plenty of double header games opposite of the Hope game, where the crowd was pretty actively cheering for one of the teams, usually the team playing Calvin. 

Quote from: TUAngola on February 20, 2023, 01:21:46 PM
I got teary eyed at Trine's game Saturday with Adrian for Senior Day.  Sam was dressed and was in the starting lineup with her crutches.  Both teams/coaches had prearranged on how the tip would go.  We line up for the tip with Sam positioned near the sideline by Trine's bench.  We 'win' the tip and promptly travel delivering the ball to Sam for one last touch in a game.  Lots of hugs and tears from the players and coaches and a standing ovation from the crowd for Sam as she gets subbed out.  Thanks to Adrian WBB for the kind gesture. :)

Dang, that's cool.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 20, 2023, 02:14:03 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 20, 2023, 12:04:14 PM
I disagree on one school hosting the semifinals.  I get what your saying about making it feel more like a tournament atmosphere, but most schools have already had that type of atmosphere at least once, possibly more, with in season 'tournaments' in November and December to replicate how the ncaa tournmament will feel.  The only thing this format rewards is for the #1 seed.  Trine had terrific years in both WBB and MBB to earn the #2 seed, but their 'reward' is to play at the #1 seed's gym at 5:30, not their own.  Other than parents and family there will be few if any other 'fans' of Trine there for an early Friday night game, but it's rewarding Calvin (assuming they beat Adrian, which is pretty much a lock) the easy travel to Hope for family and fans who won't have to miss work/school.  I guarantee there will be more Hope fans at the Trine/Calvin game than of both those schools combined...easily.

The #2 seed gets the advantage of a bye.  The #1 seed gets the advantage of a bye and hosting.  I for one have no problem with that.

It is also worth mentioning the potential that a #3 or lower seeded team has to do significant travel on both Friday and Saturday (heck a #5 or #6 team could have to travel Wed & Fri & Sat).  Imagine Alma playing at Adrian on Friday, and then at Trine on Saturday - sure you could stay somewhere between them I guess, but of course you don;t knpow where your Sat game is until after the Fri results. 
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on February 20, 2023, 02:57:00 PM
Of the top 4 seeds only #2 doesn't get a home game this week.  Calvin will do less traveling in 2 games than Trine does in 1 game leading up to Saturday.  #3 doesn't have to face an opponent on their floor until Saturday (as does #2).  #2 & #3 seeds are on more equal footing than what a #1 & #2 should be when they tied for the regular season championship.  There should be a seperation between #2 and #3 in advantages in the post season regardless of the tuneup quarterfinal game.  That is why you play the regular season.  I've looked at all the other conference tournaments on the D3 hoops website.  The overwhelming majority of the tournaments follows the highest seeded winner.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 20, 2023, 03:15:32 PM
The #3 seed has to play an additional game - sure it's on their own floor but they also have the risk of losing that game, injury, fatigue, etc.  Certainly the bye that #2 gets is worth something - especially at the end of a long season 
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 20, 2023, 03:47:23 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 20, 2023, 02:57:00 PM
Of the top 4 seeds only #2 doesn't get a home game this week.  Calvin will do less traveling in 2 games than Trine does in 1 game leading up to Saturday.  #3 doesn't have to face an opponent on their floor until Saturday (as does #2).  #2 & #3 seeds are on more equal footing than what a #1 & #2 should be when they tied for the regular season championship.  There should be a seperation between #2 and #3 in advantages in the post season regardless of the tuneup quarterfinal game.  That is why you play the regular season. I've looked at all the other conference tournaments on the D3 hoops website.  The overwhelming majority of the tournaments follows the highest seeded winner.

This piqued my curiosity, so I went through the full list of conferences and tournaments.

44 conferences have a tournament.  Looking at the semi-finals and how each conference does it, 18 of them are at a single site (40%), 26 of them are at separate sites (60%).  Of those 26 that use separate sites, 19 of them have 1 or 2 days off between games (certainly helps with travel, etc.) 
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 20, 2023, 04:05:33 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 20, 2023, 03:47:23 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 20, 2023, 02:57:00 PM
Of the top 4 seeds only #2 doesn't get a home game this week.  Calvin will do less traveling in 2 games than Trine does in 1 game leading up to Saturday.  #3 doesn't have to face an opponent on their floor until Saturday (as does #2).  #2 & #3 seeds are on more equal footing than what a #1 & #2 should be when they tied for the regular season championship.  There should be a seperation between #2 and #3 in advantages in the post season regardless of the tuneup quarterfinal game.  That is why you play the regular season. I've looked at all the other conference tournaments on the D3 hoops website.  The overwhelming majority of the tournaments follows the highest seeded winner.

This piqued my curiosity, so I went through the full list of conferences and tournaments.

44 conferences have a tournament.  Looking at the semi-finals and how each conference does it, 18 of them are at a single site (40%), 26 of them are at separate sites (60%).  Of those 26 that use separate sites, 19 of them have 1 or 2 days off between games (certainly helps with travel, etc.)

You also have to look at geography - a decent number of east coast conferences never have more than 2 or 2.5 hours max (and often an hour or less) between schools.  Doesn't make a ton of sense to do single site in those instances.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on February 20, 2023, 05:18:14 PM
I will also admit that my opinion is skewed in part by all the times the Hope and Trine have been co-champions and the 1 and 2 seeds have been determined by second half of conference schedule. The right to host the semis for both teams just feels like a huge reward for a co-champion while giving the other co-champion very little. I feel like this season, Trine has more than earned the right to host the semis. Hope gains little to nothing hosting the Trine v. Calvin game and would probably prefer the winner didn't have the ability to watch their game from the stands.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Dutchfan on February 20, 2023, 07:01:50 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on February 20, 2023, 05:18:14 PM
I will also admit that my opinion is skewed in part by all the times the Hope and Trine have been co-champions and the 1 and 2 seeds have been determined by second half of conference schedule. The right to host the semis for both teams just feels like a huge reward for a co-champion while giving the other co-champion very little. I feel like this season, Trine has more than earned the right to host the semis. Hope gains little to nothing hosting the Trine v. Calvin game and would probably prefer the winner didn't have the ability to watch their game from the stands.
Would it be better for Trine or Calvin to have to travel to Holland after an evening game the night before or to play an earlier game and go to a hotel earlier and get a good night's sleep without additional travel time added in? A lot of travel can be taxing in and of itself.

As too watching from the stands? I feel these teams know each other well enough by now that there isn't any real advantage to be gained from watching the second game from the stands.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on February 20, 2023, 07:52:10 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on February 20, 2023, 07:01:50 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on February 20, 2023, 05:18:14 PM
I will also admit that my opinion is skewed in part by all the times the Hope and Trine have been co-champions and the 1 and 2 seeds have been determined by second half of conference schedule. The right to host the semis for both teams just feels like a huge reward for a co-champion while giving the other co-champion very little. I feel like this season, Trine has more than earned the right to host the semis. Hope gains little to nothing hosting the Trine v. Calvin game and would probably prefer the winner didn't have the ability to watch their game from the stands.
Would it be better for Trine or Calvin to have to travel to Holland after an evening game the night before or to play an earlier game and go to a hotel earlier and get a good night's sleep without additional travel time added in? A lot of travel can be taxing in and of itself.

As too watching from the stands? I feel these teams know each other well enough by now that there isn't any real advantage to be gained from watching the second game from the stands.

The stands part is probably fair.

The travel part. Yes, I would much much rather have a home game the night before, sleep in my own bed, and take a bus to wherever the next morning. 100%.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on February 21, 2023, 11:15:27 AM
Just now noticed that Ohio Northern lost to Muskingum this past weekend. That's a bad loss for them that you'd think would would drop them below Baldwin Wallace and Hope in the regional rankings. Baldwin Wallace lost to John Carroll last week, so Hope could be as high as 1 in the regional rankings when they're released tomorrow.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 21, 2023, 01:30:59 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on February 21, 2023, 11:15:27 AM
Just now noticed that Ohio Northern lost to Muskingum this past weekend. That's a bad loss for them that you'd think would would drop them below Baldwin Wallace and Hope in the regional rankings. Baldwin Wallace lost to John Carroll last week, so Hope could be as high as 1 in the regional rankings when they're released tomorrow.

I'm inclined to agree. I do think there's a scenario where Hope remains behind both of them as Hope's SOS dropped quite a bit this past week.

Ohio Northern (840 / 565 / 4-2)
Baldwin Wallace (840 / 571 / 4-2)
Hope (917 / 524 / 4-1)

When it comes to hosting 1st weekend, any losses by these teams should improve Hope's chances:
Chicago
WashU
Wisc-Whitewater
Loras
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on February 21, 2023, 03:11:40 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 21, 2023, 01:30:59 PM
When it comes to hosting 1st weekend, any losses by these teams should improve Hope's chances:
Chicago
WashU
Wisc-Whitewater
Loras
I've got a good feeling about Chicago or WashU losing on Saturday :)

Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 21, 2023, 03:14:37 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on February 21, 2023, 03:11:40 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 21, 2023, 01:30:59 PM
When it comes to hosting 1st weekend, any losses by these teams should improve Hope's chances:
Chicago
WashU
Wisc-Whitewater
Loras
I've got a good feeling about Chicago or WashU losing on Saturday :)

ahahaha, I didn't realize.   ;D
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on February 21, 2023, 03:20:53 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 21, 2023, 03:14:37 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on February 21, 2023, 03:11:40 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 21, 2023, 01:30:59 PM
When it comes to hosting 1st weekend, any losses by these teams should improve Hope's chances:
Chicago
WashU
Wisc-Whitewater
Loras
I've got a good feeling about Chicago or WashU losing on Saturday :)

ahahaha, I didn't realize.   ;D
Looming Loras v Wartburg and Whitewater v. Stout matchups both feel like toss-ups.

Most importantly, Hope needs to take care of business against Albion and Calvin/Trine.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 21, 2023, 04:06:30 PM
Both Stout and Whitewater should have stiff semifinals games as well.

Conference tourneys mean most top teams face the best opponent they've faced in weeks.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Dutchfan on February 22, 2023, 04:22:08 PM
New regional rankings are out.

In spite of the fact that Hope is 22-2, Ohio Northern (20-4) and Baldwin Wallace (20-4) are still both ranked above Hope. Both teams do have slightly better S.O.S. than Hope, so I accepted them being ranked higher last week. But both lost last week and now have a two-game worse record than Hope.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 22, 2023, 04:28:15 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on February 22, 2023, 04:22:08 PM
New regional rankings are out.

In spite of the fact that Hope is 22-2, Ohio Northern (20-4) and Baldwin Wallace (20-4) are still both ranked above Hope. Both teams do have slightly better S.O.S. than Hope, so I accepted them being ranked higher last week. But both lost last week and now have a two-game worse record than Hope.

It's a pretty significant SOS difference.  .042 and .048 are big disparities - certainly enough to overcome a two win difference in most circumstances.  I don't think Hope's in much danger of missing the tournament, though.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 22, 2023, 04:45:54 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 22, 2023, 04:28:15 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on February 22, 2023, 04:22:08 PM
New regional rankings are out.

In spite of the fact that Hope is 22-2, Ohio Northern (20-4) and Baldwin Wallace (20-4) are still both ranked above Hope. Both teams do have slightly better S.O.S. than Hope, so I accepted them being ranked higher last week. But both lost last week and now have a two-game worse record than Hope.

It's a pretty significant SOS difference.  .042 and .048 are big disparities - certainly enough to overcome a two win difference in most circumstances.  I don't think Hope's in much danger of missing the tournament, though.

Loras over UW-Oshkosh, +109 points of WP beat out -85 points of SOS. (Loras has worse Common too)

Hope vs BW: + 71 points of WP, -44 points of SOS.  Similar with ONU.

I think ONU and BW over Hope largely has to do with best win vRRO. BW has a #1, ONU has a #2. Hope's best is #4.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 22, 2023, 04:49:38 PM
I know scheduling:
(a) takes two to tango
(b) requires some luck

but if Hope had anyone of: (Chicago, Millikin, Wartburg, Loras, Whitewater, Oshkosh) on their schedule instead of Finlandia, and beat them, not only is Hope #1 in Region 7, they are likely also Top 10 in the Top 16.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: pointlem on February 22, 2023, 07:36:23 PM
I'd love to have someone explain the weighting system used by Massey's computer algorithm. Any prediction system is imperfect, with outcomes subject to random variations. Nevertheless, in real life and clinical judgments, statistical predictions, based on accumulated data, tend to surpass human prediction.

Massey's estimate of Hope having an 82% chance of beating Baldwin Wallace on a neutral floor, and an 86% chance of beating Ohio Northern, means the outcome would be uncertain . . . but do indicate something meaningful that is not captured by the DIII regional ranking system.

My observation is that Massey does predict outcomes with an accuracy that approximates its own confidence estimates . . . but some enterprising person could objectively assess its many predictions. Across teams and games, does a team that's said to have a 60% chance of winning actually win about 60% of the time . . . and likewise for 70%, 80%, and 90% predictions? For all I know, perhaps Massey has done that analysis, which is incorporated into its current predictions.

All that said, the only outcome that matters is what happens on the floor, and this season we've seen some weird results (albeit mindful that, if Massey is right, a team that it gives a 90% chance of winning should lose 10% of the time).
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on February 23, 2023, 07:31:36 AM
To me the best way to rank teams is thru the 'eye test'.  I have watched Hope, ONU and Baldwin Wallace several times this year, either in person (Hope and ONU) or on live stream (all three).  There is no way ONU or Baldwin Wallace is better than Hope when using the 'eye test'.  I get that the powers that be love their SOSs and RROs and what not, but swap out ONU to the MIAA and Hope to the OAC and Hope is still going to destroy most teams in that conference.   
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Dutchfan on February 23, 2023, 08:13:19 AM
Does anyone know what the formula used to rank teams in the regional rankings is?

I know it is based on Win%, Win% over Regionally ranked opponents, and Strength of Schedule. But what is the exact formula used?
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on February 23, 2023, 09:05:37 AM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 22, 2023, 04:49:38 PM
I know scheduling:
(a) takes two to tango
(b) requires some luck

but if Hope had anyone of: (Chicago, Millikin, Wartburg, Loras, Whitewater, Oshkosh) on their schedule instead of Finlandia, and beat them, not only is Hope #1 in Region 7, they are likely also Top 10 in the Top 16.

I agree with this. My biggest problem with the process actually isn't the process, but the SOS methodology itself. The formula needs changing. It too severely punishes teams for scheduling a Finlandia. There are many ways to tweak the formula to get a better representation of the best team and not just the best resume.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 23, 2023, 09:14:45 AM
Quote from: Dutchfan on February 23, 2023, 08:13:19 AM
Does anyone know what the formula used to rank teams in the regional rankings is?

I know it is based on Win%, Win% over Regionally ranked opponents, and Strength of Schedule. But what is the exact formula used?

No such formula exists.  Those criteria (along with some secondary things like head to head results) are what are used by each regional committee to rank the teams in the region and eventually by the national committee in selecting the Pool C teams and seeding the tournament. 

It comes down to how the committees interpret those items (like how much "weight" they put on SOS vs W/L).  Folks like scottiedawg and knightslappy attempt to mimick the committees with math and formulas (and are both really good at that), but you will see them constantly tweaking their formulas from year to year (or week to week) to try to align with the committees.

If there was an acutal formula used, we wouldn't need the committees at all (and we can argue whether that is a good thing or not)
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 23, 2023, 11:33:47 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 23, 2023, 09:14:45 AM
Quote from: Dutchfan on February 23, 2023, 08:13:19 AM
Does anyone know what the formula used to rank teams in the regional rankings is?

I know it is based on Win%, Win% over Regionally ranked opponents, and Strength of Schedule. But what is the exact formula used?

No such formula exists.  Those criteria (along with some secondary things like head to head results) are what are used by each regional committee to rank the teams in the region and eventually by the national committee in selecting the Pool C teams and seeding the tournament. 

It comes down to how the committees interpret those items (like how much "weight" they put on SOS vs W/L).  Folks like scottiedawg and knightslappy attempt to mimick the committees with math and formulas (and are both really good at that), but you will see them constantly tweaking their formulas from year to year (or week to week) to try to align with the committees.

If there was an acutal formula used, we wouldn't need the committees at all (and we can argue whether that is a good thing or not)

and with that post, FDF will be taking over all my PR opportunities from now on!
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: sac on February 23, 2023, 11:40:31 AM
(https://y.yarn.co/12eb20b5-aa65-4b50-9e5a-53df70d16721_text.gif)
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: sac on February 23, 2023, 11:48:46 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 23, 2023, 07:31:36 AM
To me the best way to rank teams is thru the 'eye test'.  I have watched Hope, ONU and Baldwin Wallace several times this year, either in person (Hope and ONU) or on live stream (all three).  There is no way ONU or Baldwin Wallace is better than Hope when using the 'eye test'.  I get that the powers that be love their SOSs and RROs and what not, but swap out ONU to the MIAA and Hope to the OAC and Hope is still going to destroy most teams in that conference.

Long story short, the "eye test" was how it used to be done and this led to the "smokey back rooms" with conferences scratching your back if you'd scratch ours.  There were conferences that could never get a team in the tournament.  And it was even worse when there were only 48 teams in the tournament.

I like the ideas of our current criteria except the use and application of RRO's, its double counting and with regions being uneven in strength you get teams ranked in some regions counting as RRO that wouldn't be ranked in others.  Then using that same regional data to select a national tournament.  Square peg, round hole.

Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 23, 2023, 11:57:56 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 23, 2023, 07:31:36 AM
To me the best way to rank teams is thru the 'eye test'.  I have watched Hope, ONU and Baldwin Wallace several times this year, either in person (Hope and ONU) or on live stream (all three).  There is no way ONU or Baldwin Wallace is better than Hope when using the 'eye test'.  I get that the powers that be love their SOSs and RROs and what not, but swap out ONU to the MIAA and Hope to the OAC and Hope is still going to destroy most teams in that conference.

I also think it's not really a problem of how you value SOS. The SOS formula is pretty misleading.

Currently WP + SOS does not separate these teams very much:
Hope - 917 / 525
St. John Fisher - 920 / 500

(Massey gives Hope 85% winprob. Massey thinks these teams are VERY different)

If Hope and ONU/BW had played a mostly overlapping schedule, then the SOS difference WOULD be quite meaningful.  (SOS spreads are much tighter than WP spreads)

Hope has played largely good teams or bad teams.  ONU/BW have played teams all along the spectrum. If Hope gets to play 8-17 teams instead of 3-22 teams their SOS jumps up and they still have the same WP (I bet).

SOS lumps it all together. I think the distribution of strength of opponents played is a much bigger factor in "strength of schedule" than lumping it all together. But there's no way to tease that out currently.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on February 23, 2023, 01:16:43 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 23, 2023, 11:57:56 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on February 23, 2023, 07:31:36 AM
To me the best way to rank teams is thru the 'eye test'.  I have watched Hope, ONU and Baldwin Wallace several times this year, either in person (Hope and ONU) or on live stream (all three).  There is no way ONU or Baldwin Wallace is better than Hope when using the 'eye test'.  I get that the powers that be love their SOSs and RROs and what not, but swap out ONU to the MIAA and Hope to the OAC and Hope is still going to destroy most teams in that conference.

I also think it's not really a problem of how you value SOS. The SOS formula is pretty misleading.

Currently WP + SOS does not separate these teams very much:
Hope - 917 / 525
St. John Fisher - 920 / 500

(Massey gives Hope 85% winprob. Massey thinks these teams are VERY different)

If Hope and ONU/BW had played a mostly overlapping schedule, then the SOS difference WOULD be quite meaningful.  (SOS spreads are much tighter than WP spreads)

Hope has played largely good teams or bad teams.  ONU/BW have played teams all along the spectrum. If Hope gets to play 8-17 teams instead of 3-22 teams their SOS jumps up and they still have the same WP (I bet).

SOS lumps it all together. I think the distribution of strength of opponents played is a much bigger factor in "strength of schedule" than lumping it all together. But there's no way to tease that out currently.

100% agree. The problem isn't that SOS is used, but the current way it's calculated.

It's just incredibly harsh to punish Hope as hard as they are for scheduling Geneva, Finlandia, and Great Lakes Christian instead of better D3 teams. Wisconsin Eau Clare, Wisconsin Lutheran, Illinois Wesleyan, Wittenberg, Carnegie Mellon, and Otterbein is a very decent slew of a non-conference opponents. Their SOS is just anchored down by the very bad teams on their schedule.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 23, 2023, 01:27:30 PM
Minor point but the Great Lakes Christian game doesn't affect Hope's SOS since it's not a D3 game.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 23, 2023, 02:21:59 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 23, 2023, 01:27:30 PM
Minor point but the Great Lakes Christian game doesn't affect Hope's SOS since it's not a D3 game.

True - although it does impact their W%
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 23, 2023, 02:52:18 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 23, 2023, 02:21:59 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 23, 2023, 01:27:30 PM
Minor point but the Great Lakes Christian game doesn't affect Hope's SOS since it's not a D3 game.

True - although it does impact their W%

Don't think it affects that either.

And Hope scheduling GLC is better than scheduling some team with a 500 or worse WP.  The win% bump from winning an additional game is negligible.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 23, 2023, 03:01:52 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 23, 2023, 02:52:18 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 23, 2023, 02:21:59 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 23, 2023, 01:27:30 PM
Minor point but the Great Lakes Christian game doesn't affect Hope's SOS since it's not a D3 game.

True - although it does impact their W%

Don't think it affects that either.

And Hope scheduling GLC is better than scheduling some team with a 500 or worse WP.  The win% bump from winning an additional game is negligible.

I agree that the impact on their W% is not significant, but it does in fact impact it.   .917 vs .920   ...and you just never know when you might get down to splitting hairs this time of year :)
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on February 23, 2023, 03:41:45 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 23, 2023, 02:52:18 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 23, 2023, 02:21:59 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 23, 2023, 01:27:30 PM
Minor point but the Great Lakes Christian game doesn't affect Hope's SOS since it's not a D3 game.

True - although it does impact their W%

Don't think it affects that either.

And Hope scheduling GLC is better than scheduling some team with a 500 or worse WP.  The win% bump from winning an additional game is negligible.

It does simply in that it was a game Hope could have tried to schedule against a team that would have helped their SOS...
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 23, 2023, 03:46:37 PM
Another thing I'm grappling with is it makes almost zero sense for a team that is halfway decent, to schedule Hope nonConf.

There is a 98%+ chance you lose, likely by 30+.

And if you're a 650-800 WP school with usually a 450-520 SOS, scheduling that game against Hope doesn't help you. Your WP is what will give you a sliver of chance for the NCAA tournament. Bumping your bad SOS to slightly less bad won't make a difference.

I'm getting the sense that sense that Hope actually doesn't have the option to play teams like:
- St. Norbert
- Webster
- Greenville
- Hanover
- Washington & Jefferson
- Aurora
- St. Vincent

I can't know for sure but I wouldn't be surprised if Hope tried hard to schedule a strong nonConf team and got no takers.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on February 23, 2023, 04:10:51 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 23, 2023, 03:46:37 PM
Another thing I'm grappling with is it makes almost zero sense for a team that is halfway decent, to schedule Hope nonConf.

There is a 98%+ chance you lose, likely by 30+.

And if you're a 650-800 WP school with usually a 450-520 SOS, scheduling that game against Hope doesn't help you. Your WP is what will give you a sliver of chance for the NCAA tournament. Bumping your bad SOS to slightly less bad won't make a difference.

I'm getting the sense that sense that Hope actually doesn't have the option to play teams like:
- St. Norbert
- Webster
- Greenville
- Hanover
- Washington & Jefferson
- Aurora
- St. Vincent

I can't know for sure but I wouldn't be surprised if Hope tried hard to schedule a strong nonConf team and got no takers.

SOS isn't the only variable. You're 100% correct, but... there is still value in playing a great opponent in your attempt to get better yourself, on the court. Not to mention, the opportunity for D3 women's athletes to play in an arena like DeVos in front of 500-1000 fans is worth more than nothing.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 24, 2023, 11:07:00 AM
All-MIAA slelections have been announced:

Most Valuable Player
Sidney Wagner, Trine

Defensive Player of the Year
Meg Morehouse, Hope

2023 Women's Basketball All-MIAA First Team
Makayla Ardis, Trine
Claire Baguley, Hope
Daniah Beavers, Albion
Savannah Feenstra, Hope
Gabby Timmer, Calvin (5)
Sidney Wagner, Trine

2023 Women's Basketball All-MIAA Second Team
Sydney Cleary, Calvin
Leah Harris, Calvin (2)
Ella McKinney, Hope
Lolo Reed, Albion (2)
Taylor Sas, Alma (3)
Elena Welker, Albion (3)

(#) Number of multi-time All-MIAA, including career first- and second-team honors

https://www.miaa.org/sports/wbkb/2022-23/releases/AllMIAA2023
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 24, 2023, 11:09:49 AM
Came here to say "MVP is obviously a counting stat not a rate stat", but ran some numbers and goodness gracious did Wagner fill the stat sheet! Looks pretty deserved to me.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 24, 2023, 11:18:04 AM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 24, 2023, 11:09:49 AM
Came here to say "MVP is obviously a counting stat not a rate stat", but ran some numbers and goodness gracious did Wagner fill the stat sheet! Looks pretty deserved to me.

I literally did the same thing with the same conclusion - which doesn't discount the phenomenal season Claire Baguley has had thus far.  Her efficiency is off the charts!!
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on February 24, 2023, 11:20:07 AM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 24, 2023, 11:09:49 AM
Came here to say "MVP is obviously a counting stat not a rate stat", but ran some numbers and goodness gracious did Wagner fill the stat sheet! Looks pretty deserved to me.

...and Sidney didn't become a full time starter this year until after Sam Underhill was injured (she started the Hope game in December only because Katie Tate was out sick that game).  Before that it was rare that Makayla Ardis and Sidney were in the game at the same time as they both were PG's.  Makayla has flourished being moved to the SG position with Sidney at point.  They work very well together.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 24, 2023, 11:20:20 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on February 24, 2023, 11:18:04 AM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 24, 2023, 11:09:49 AM
Came here to say "MVP is obviously a counting stat not a rate stat", but ran some numbers and goodness gracious did Wagner fill the stat sheet! Looks pretty deserved to me.

I literally did the same thing with the same conclusion - which doesn't discount the phenomenal season Claire Baguley has had thus far.  Her efficiency is off the charts!!

Hah!

Using simplistic (PTS  + REB + AST + STL + BLK - TO) / MIN it's Wagner 0.89, Baguley 0.87.  Didn't dig into shooting efficiency.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 24, 2023, 04:10:52 PM
One thing that has been discovered this year by watching how Massey treats the North Park men is that Massey hands onto previous years' results a LONG time. I wonder how much 2021-22 Hope is factoring into the algorithm over there.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 24, 2023, 05:08:40 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 24, 2023, 04:10:52 PM
One thing that has been discovered this year by watching how Massey treats the North Park men is that Massey hands onto previous years' results a LONG time. I wonder how much 2021-22 Hope is factoring into the algorithm over there.

It holds on to previous performance for the power rating.  I don't think it does the same for the overall.  NPU's ranking reflects its results pretty well.  The power rating still doubts their strength going forward (which is probably due to old data).
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on February 25, 2023, 06:34:27 AM
Congrats to the Hope women for pulling out a gut-check win over a tough Albion squad.  It wasn't pretty with both teams shooting around 30% and pretty evenly matched in most statistical categories.  Hope's persistent drives to the rim were rewarded with shooting fouls and that was probably the difference.  Despite Hope's fabulous offensive performance this season, this was the kind of game that worried me and it was nice to see the Dutch defense help them grind through it.

Interesting and confusing game summary on Albion's page:  https://gobrits.com/news/2023/2/24/womens-basketball-wbb-stumbles-in-miaa-semifinals.aspx
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: pointlem on February 25, 2023, 09:30:48 AM
Quote from: Roundball999 on February 25, 2023, 06:34:27 AM
Congrats tot he Hope women for pulling out a gut-check win over a tough Albion squad.  It wasn't pretty with both teams shooting around 30% and pretty evenly matched in most statistical categories.  Hope's persistent drives to the rim were rewarded with shooting fouls and that was probably the difference.  Despite Hope's fabulous offensive performance this season, this was the kind of game that worried me and it was nice to see the Dutch defense help them grind through it.

Interesting and confusing game summary on Albion's page:  https://gobrits.com/news/2023/2/24/womens-basketball-wbb-stumbles-in-miaa-semifinals.aspx
Good summary, Roundball . . . with Hope's shooting the antithesis of last Saturday's scorching of the nets. They'll need to--and I expect will--shoot better to win tonight and in games beyond.

And yes, with due credit to Albion for playing tough and beating Hope earlier, that is an, um, interesting official Albion assessment of the two teams.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: NW Hope Fan on February 25, 2023, 09:27:14 PM
Sweet win! Go Hope!!!
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 27, 2023, 12:03:58 PM
The bottom of the MIAA was once again an anchor on the SOS for the top teams. There are absolutely "better" ways to calculate SOS, but the current formula is well-known and puts the MIAA teams (and not just the MIAA) in a bit of a hole.

Hope and Trine had the best SOS out of the top 4, largely because they each got to play 8 games against MIAA Top 4 teams, while Calvin and Trine only played 7 games.

If (a) the bottom of the league scheduled just a bit easier to boost their WP out of conference (as sac has suggested on the MBB side), (b) Albion scheduled stronger nonCon, (c) Calvin either gets a 2nd win vRRO from nonCon, or schedules more mid-tier nonCon to help their SOS, there's a very good chance the MIAA has 4 teams ranked in Region 7, which helps all of them.

(and I realize it's not any responsibility of the bottom teams in the MIAA to schedule in a way that helps out the top teams)

It's a bizarre dance because of the way SOS is calculated and because there are only 7 ranked teams per region now. But short of changes at the NCAA level, it's a dance you have to engage in to be selected for the NCAA Tournament and to have hosting chances.

This should not in any way be a replacement for the NCAA Criteria, but I maintain a "Current Season Results" model that tries to give teams big rewards for beating strong teams, doesn't dock them for playing a 1-24 team, and doesn't overly dock them for losing to an elite team. It also rewards teams with strong Pt/Reb/To differentials in games played against other strong teams.

MIAA teams and some of the last few Pool C "hopefuls":

Hope, #4
Trine, #17
Emory, #26
Calvin, #32
Mary Washington, #43
Stevens, #58
Albion, #65
SUNY New Paltz, #66
Johns Hopkins, #80
Randolph-Macon, #105

The lack of a Road Multiplier in the WBB WP and SOS formulas also provides zero incentive for a top program to travel to another top program.

That said, in years where Hope believes it has a very strong team (which is every year these days), I do think it makes sense to be more willing to go on the road if that's your only route to scheduling an opponent with a likely strong WP and chance at a win vRRO.

I have zero sense for what's possible/off the table, but Hope/MIAA playing in a 4-team tourney to get games against a Luther/Wartburg, Carroll/Millikin, Bethel/Gustavus, Marietta/Ohio Northern, Hanover/Transylvania, WIAC/WIAC seems to be the only ticket to building a Sectionals hosting resume.  (or just have Trine be elite).
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 27, 2023, 03:15:47 PM
Hope (as expected) is hosting a pod this weeked, playing St Norbert.  The other game at the De Vos will be Baldwin-Wallace vs Wartburg.

Quick look at Hope vs St Norbert.  Hope will certainly have a size advantage (St. Norbert has a 5-10 G/F and a 5-11 post, the rest of the team is between5-4 and 5-9):



Offense     % 2pt   % 3pt      % FT
Hope     53.9   38.8      68.2
St Norbert     47.4   30.4      70.8
------             
Defense     % 2pt   % 3pt     
Hope     35.3   27.9     
St Norbert     41.7   26.3     
------             
Rebounding     Team   Opp      Margin
Hope     44.2   31.4      12.8
St Norbert     38.1   35.3      2.8
------             
Scoring     Team   Opp      Margin
Hope     88.3   54.9      33.4
St Norbert     68.3   50.6      17.7
------             
3 point shooting     Made/game        
Hope     9.5        
St Norbert     6.9        
------             
Ball Control     Stl/game   TO/Game      OppTO/Game
Hope     12.5   14.6      21.3
St Norbert     9.7   11.7      18.9
------             
Ball Control     Asst/game   A/TO      Blks/game
Hope     15.9   1.09      2.6
St Norbert     15.9   1.36      1.6
------             
    vRRO   In-Div SOS      Massey Predicts
Hope     4-1   0.523      77
St Norbert     0-2   0.477      55
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 27, 2023, 03:16:25 PM
And Trine will be headed to Loras, where they will face WashU in the first round
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: NW Hope Fan on February 27, 2023, 03:23:24 PM
Top right looks like a tough road!
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: gordonmann on February 27, 2023, 03:37:21 PM
Hope, CNU, Tufts and Trinity would make a really good national final four.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: NW Hope Fan on February 27, 2023, 03:48:42 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on February 27, 2023, 03:37:21 PM
Hope, CNU, Tufts and Trinity would make a really good national final four.

Right?!
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 27, 2023, 03:57:43 PM
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on February 27, 2023, 03:48:42 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on February 27, 2023, 03:37:21 PM
Hope, CNU, Tufts and Trinity would make a really good national final four.

Right?!

Guess they want Hope & Trine to meet in the Championship game and not the semi's
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on February 27, 2023, 04:39:16 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on February 27, 2023, 03:37:21 PM
Hope, CNU, Tufts and Trinity would make a really good national final four.

I also believe that would be three flights regardless of where the sectional was held.

There's a chance that the CNU men could host that weekend should they make it and not end up at St. Joseph.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 27, 2023, 04:58:56 PM
Hope pod:


Team     Avg Pos/G   Off Eff (PPP)   Def Eff (PPP)      SOS      vRRO  
Baldwin-Wallace     68.1   0.960   0.800      0.571      4-3
Wartburg     69.7   1.041   0.825      0.574      1-6
St Norbert     66.3   1.029   0.769      0.477      0-2
Hope     73.5   1.201   0.750      0.523      5-1

Massey


Team     Overall Rank   Off Rank   Def Rank      Predicted Score      Win Probability 
Baldwin-Wallace     28   58   23      61      38%
Wartburg     17   11   43      66      62%
-------------------     -------------------   -------------------   -------------------      -------------------      -------------------
St Norbert     53   120   62      55      7%
Hope     2   2   27      77      93%
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Dutchfan on February 27, 2023, 05:40:44 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on February 27, 2023, 03:37:21 PM
Hope, CNU, Tufts and Trinity would make a really good national final four.
Hope would play Christopher Newport in the third round.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 27, 2023, 05:40:49 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on February 27, 2023, 04:39:16 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on February 27, 2023, 03:37:21 PM
Hope, CNU, Tufts and Trinity would make a really good national final four.

I also believe that would be three flights regardless of where the sectional was held.

There's a chance that the CNU men could host that weekend should they make it and not end up at St. Joseph.

That was the most unexpected bracketing for me. I didn't expect them to be able to be so cavalier with potential flights. I like the possibilities it brings though. 

Trinity Texas and Hope are probably two teams whose NCAA Resume underrates their actual ability.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 27, 2023, 05:41:11 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on February 27, 2023, 05:40:44 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on February 27, 2023, 03:37:21 PM
Hope, CNU, Tufts and Trinity would make a really good national final four.
Hope would play Christopher Newport in the third round.

that's Gordon's point.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Dutchfan on February 27, 2023, 07:53:37 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 27, 2023, 05:41:11 PM
Quote from: Dutchfan on February 27, 2023, 05:40:44 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on February 27, 2023, 03:37:21 PM
Hope, CNU, Tufts and Trinity would make a really good national final four.
Hope would play Christopher Newport in the third round.

that's Gordon's point.
Ah, okay. I'm busy making  maple syrup and apparently didn't read it correctly.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 28, 2023, 08:07:54 PM
I wanted to watch the full Hope v Trine MIAA title game as I was at Hope-Calvin MBB. Seems it's disappeared from the Hope Athletics YouTube page?!?
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Riley Zayas on February 28, 2023, 08:57:41 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on February 28, 2023, 08:07:54 PM
I wanted to watch the full Hope v Trine MIAA title game as I was at Hope-Calvin MBB. Seems it's disappeared from the Hope Athletics YouTube page?!?


Yep :(

I went to my search history, found the link for the game, and it comes up saying video is unavailable. Not sure why. I guess maybe they don't want recent film out there? Trine-Calvin (from the semis) is still available

Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 28, 2023, 09:09:02 PM
If it's gamesmanship that's incredible.

Hope v Albion semis is still up though.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on March 02, 2023, 06:01:01 PM
I hope everyone travels safely to the tournament sites tomorrow.  I'm assuming most participating teams have already arrived at their host college.  Friday appears to be a 'not so fun' travel day, with a major snow storm hitting the Chicago area with 6-10" of snow.  Won't make for good traveling weather for those Trine folks heading west to Dubuque.  I am not going, was probably not going to go anyway, but the incoming weather sealed the deal plus I am just getting over a nasty cold.  Angola is on the southern fringe of the storm but we're still supposed get 3-5" of snow.  What is the forecast for Holland tomorrow?

Loras will be the prohibitive favorite in their pod, they have been playing great basketball.  Trine will have to play really well to get past Wash U to even get a shot at playing the hosts on Saturday.  Hopefully the deep run in the tournament last year will give us a little edge experience wise.  Ardis and Wagner will have to carry the bulk of the scoring load.  If Argyle can make a few 3s that will help, she has been stuggling lately.  Sanner will have to stay out of foul trouble, and the Slonekers' will need to be leading us defensively.   
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on March 03, 2023, 08:22:05 PM
Final from Loras College:  Trine 79  WashU 69

Well played game by both teams, stats were pretty even, both made 9 three pointers, both made 14 free throws, Trine with 5 more made baskets and shot 50% from the floor for the game.  We played well the 1st quarter and 3 minutes into the 2nd, led by 13 at one point, WashU fought back and cut it to 7 at half.  WashU takes their first lead of the game midway thru the 3rd with an 11 pt run, but Trine responds to lead by 4 going into the 4th.  Every run by WashU in the 4th was countered with huge buckets by the Thunder and WashU was forced to foul at the end of the game for a final margin of 10 points.

We got good contributions from everyone:  Ardis 18, 9 reb, 9 ast (1 reb and ast away from a triple/double), Wagner 15, Argyle 11 (with 3 3's, we needed her to hit them tonight), Tate 9, Hinds 9 (3 huge 3's in the 3rd qtr), K Sloneker 8, Sanner 6 (with couple big buckets in the 4th), S Sloneker 3. 

Will face the winner of Loras/Knox tomorrow night.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 04, 2023, 10:03:44 AM
Nice game by the Dutch last night to get the 82-61 win.  Close first quarter and early second, and then Hope did what Hope does - defense turning into offense, and very good shooting. 

Tonight they get the chance to "avenge" their last loss in the NCAA tournament when they lost to Wartburg in the 2019 NCAAs, losing 79-49 @ Wartburg.  I know during their amazing run of 60+ wins in a row several players and Coach Mo sited that loss at Wartburg as a turning point. 

Here's a quick look at how Hope and Wartburg compare going into tonights game:



Offense     % 2pt   % 3pt      % FT
Hope     54.5   38.5      68
Wartburg     47.9   33.7      70.9
------             
Defense     % 2pt   % 3pt     
Hope     39.1   28.4     
Wartburg     35.7   29.3     
------             
Rebounding     Team   Opp      Margin
Hope     43.8   31.5      12.3
Wartburg     38.1   38.1      0
------             
Scoring     Team   Opp      Margin
Hope     88.1   55.1      33
Wartburg     72   57      15
------             
3 point shooting     Made/game        
Hope     9.5        
Wartburg     9.7        
------             
Ball Control     Stl/game   TO/Game      OppTO/Game
Hope     12.4   14.6      21.2
Wartburg     9.2   13.3      18.3
------             
Ball Control     Asst/game   A/TO      Blks/game
Hope     15.9   1.09      2.6
Wartburg     14.5   1.09      3.6
------             
    vRRO   In-Div SOS      Massey Predicts
Hope     4-1   0.523      76
Wartburg     1-6   0.574      65
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on March 04, 2023, 12:12:52 PM
Trine at Loras tonight, 8:30 Eastern Time (7:30 Central).

Massey has Loras with a 58% chance of winning with projected final score of 64-61.  Massey has Loras ranked 12th and Trine 15th.  D3 Hoops has Loras ranked 15th and Trine 14th.  In terms of style both are very similar relying on tough defense and motion offense.  Neither team goes much more than 8 deep.  Loras does have an advantage in size, 4 of their 5 starters are 5'10 and taller while we only have one girl 5'10 or taller.  There are some common opponents: both Trine and Loras have defeated Calvin, Loras defeated UW Eau Claire and Trine lost to Eau Claire, Trine has defeated Wartburg and Loras has won 2 of 3 games with Wartburg.  Loras has won 11 in a row, have not lost since mid January.  I give the edge to Loras tonight playing at home with some raucous fans.  Their students aren't on spring break yet so they'll have a large crowd.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on March 04, 2023, 02:31:53 PM
Just realized it's MIAA vs ARC in both games today.  Good luck to Hope in their game against Wartburg and Trine in their game against Loras!  Hope's last loss in the NCAA tournament came against Wartburg in 2019.  Time for payback.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: pointlem on March 04, 2023, 10:51:38 PM
Kudos to Trine. We'll be rooting for you and your women players, TU Angola.

Incredible shooting by Wartburg tonight . . . the second time they've ambushed Hope . . . and after Hope was roaring back as the third quarter was ending with 1529 fans on their feet and the house vibrating with deafening energy.

After time passes, we'll say what an incredible four years those seniors have had: 103 and 4 . . . three #1 finishes in a row out of 400+ schools, plus 26-3 this year. You could not have asked for more (even if, having accomplished this much, we wished for still more).

And what typically spontaneous eloquence by Coach Morehouse in reflecting on it all: https://youtu.be/9owICFqvC9U?t=1206.

I think of him as the John Wooden of current DIII women's BB.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on March 04, 2023, 11:03:14 PM
Survive and advance:  Trine 60  Loras 54

Tale of 2 halves, Loras with some great 3 point shooting jumps out to a 34-25 lead at half.  But Trine turned up their defense a notch and made things much more difficult for the Duhawks in the 2nd half.  Trine ties things up at the end of the third qtr and take their first lead since the first qtr with 6 quick points to begin the 4th.  Trine doesn't relinquish the lead and Sidney Wagner hits 5-6 FT to seal the win.  Defense holds Loras to 5-26 shooting in the 2nd half.

Sidney Wagner with a great game, finishes with 17 pts, 12 reb, 4 ast.  But the player of the game was freshman Abby Sanner.  She was huge in a game where we needed her length and led the Thunder with 19 pts.  Makayla Ardis with another solid game and finishes with 11 pts and 7 reb.

Trine's next game will be against ultra talented NYU.  With Transylvania winning tonight, the Sweet 16 will more than likely be back in Lexington again next week.  Games hosts will be announced Sunday. 
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on March 04, 2023, 11:14:12 PM
Watched the first half of Hope's game.  Just ran into a hot shooting Wartburg team, their 3 point shooting was terrific.  Outstanding 4 years for this group of seniors.  Hope will be back, they aren't going anywhere as they have good young talent to plug in for next year.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on March 05, 2023, 11:40:46 AM
Back to Transylvania for Trine ;D.

Ladies are headed back to Lexington KY for the Sweet 16 next weekend.  Some comfort in knowing how to win on that court.  Doesn't get any easier though as the next opponent is NYU ranked #2 in Massey and #6 in D3 Hoops poll.  They are beating teams by an avg of 25 pts/gm.  Their non-conference schedule wasn't that great but the one game that stands out is an impressive 20 pt win over Tufts.  They gave Hope a great game last year and have most all of that team back.  We'll be heavy underdogs against the Violets.  They have 2 inside players who are very good in Bruns at 6'1 and Walker at 6'0, with a 'do everything' guard in Pellecchia.  It's a matchup problem for the undersized Thunder.  My guess is we'll have to utilize Sanner and the Slonker(s) on the court at the same time even more to combat their length. 

Transy is the only Sweet 16 host outside of the state of Massachusettes.  Smith, Tufts and Babson are the other hosts next weekend. 
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on March 06, 2023, 09:01:55 AM
Let's go Trine! Would love to see back-to-back MIAA champions!
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: sac on March 06, 2023, 12:37:19 PM
Hope's great run really began off the back of a 79-49 loss at Wartburg in the 2019 tournament.  That team was very young with many of the same faces that lifted the Championship trophy a year ago and one or two from this years team as well.  They didn't lose again for 3 years.

Both times Wartburg shot over 50% from 3, 10-19 in 2019, 14-24 this weekend.


Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on March 07, 2023, 04:55:40 PM
I will be heading down to Lexington again this year for the Sweet 16.  I came down with the 'crud' a few weeks ago so wasn't able to get up to Hope for the MIAA conference final, and didn't want to fight the wintry weather to get out to Dubuque last weekend.  Just an amazing feat by the Thunder to make it back to the regional finals again this year.  I sure wasn't expecting it with the graduation losses from last year's team.  Wagner and Ardis has been a great tandem at guard, and Sanner has been coming into her own since Underhill was lost for the season.

It will be #14 Trine vs #6 NYU and #16 Ohio Northern vs #2 Transylvania.  Massey has NYU with a 68% chance of winning over Trine and are 6 point favorites, and Transy has a 73% chance of winning over ONU and are 8 point favorites.  My belief is that NYU will be the favorite to advance out of this region.  Transy has everyone back from last year's loss to Trine, but they play a very weak schedule.  That's why I thought Trine had a good shot of winning at Transy last year, that the battles with Hope were advantageous in playing in those tough games.

I just couldn't pass up seeing this group of seniors play one more time.     
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: ronk on March 07, 2023, 06:28:13 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on March 07, 2023, 04:55:40 PM
I will be heading down to Lexington again this year for the Sweet 16.  I came down with the 'crud' a few weeks ago so wasn't able to get up to Hope for the MIAA conference final, and didn't want to fight the wintry weather to get out to Dubuque last weekend.  Just an amazing feat by the Thunder to make it back to the regional finals again this year.  I sure wasn't expecting it with the graduation losses from last year's team.  Wagner and Ardis has been a great tandem at guard, and Sanner has been coming into her own since Underhill was lost for the season.

It will be #14 Trine vs #6 NYU and #16 Ohio Northern vs #2 Transylvania.  Massey has NYU with a 68% chance of winning over Trine and are 6 point favorites, and Transy has a 73% chance of winning over ONU and are 8 point favorites.  My belief is that NYU will be the favorite to advance out of this region.  Transy has everyone back from last year's loss to Trine, but they play a very weak schedule.  That's why I thought Trine had a good shot of winning at Transy last year, that the battles with Hope were advantageous in playing in those tough games.

I just couldn't pass up seeing this group of seniors play one more time.   

I agree with Massey; I  really like Wagner's play but in this game, I think NYU's Pellechia will hold her down.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: sac on March 08, 2023, 01:01:45 AM
Bridget Crombie   5-11  SF has committed to Hope for basketball and track

Bridget is homeschooled and has run track and played basketball for CHAP  or Capital Homeschool Athletic Program based in Lansing, Mi.

Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on March 11, 2023, 06:51:59 AM
Tournament run ends for Trine as they lose to NYU 66-49.  NYU's length really bothered us inside.  Walker and Bruns are not only long, both over 6', but very athletic and quick.  Then they bring a 6'1 guard in Peper off the bench and have a talented hard nosed point guard in Pellecchia and they make it tough to get any good looks at all.  Honestly they remind me a lot of last year's Hope team in that they play great defense and have a strong interior presence, and can also hit shots.  First half was a defensive slugfest and we were only down 4 at the break.  NYU started to get some shots inside to fall in the 3rd quarter, and when we doubled the bigs they dished to the wings and they hit some huge 3s.  We just couldn't get anything going offensively and dug ourselves in too big of a hole in that decisive 3rd quarter.  I can't fault our girls, they left it all out on the court.  Just ran into a team that we just didn't match up with very well at all.  Wagner led us with 15, no one else in double figures.

The officiating...was...awful.  Awful for both sides.  Is this all the better we can do for a NCAA tournament game?  The worst was at the start of the second half.  NYU begins with the ball, clock is winding down and we knock it out of bounds with 9:29 showing on the clock.  Shot clock violation, right?  No, the refs decide to put 2 seconds back on the shot clock, NYU ball.  The whole gym is like what?  I was sitting by some NYU fans and even they couldn't understand.  There is no adjustment to the game clock.  The refs bail out NYU with a weak foul call on us, NYU gets an extra 20 seconds, they score, and it went downhill for us from there.  Even the NYU girls/staff were giggling about the absurdity of it.

Super proud of our senior class.  Just like last year's class we graduate another 5 gals who have put their all into the program.  Well done Alyssa, Makayla, Sam, Katie and Sophie.  You have left a legacy that you all should be proud of.   

We'll have a good foundation for next year in Sidney Wagner, Katie Tate, Abby Sanner and Sierra Hinds who all played extensively this year.  Jada Rhonehouse and Addison Hutson also provided minutes to give the starters a break, especailly after we lost Sam.  We'll also get Chelsea Giesige back after she was lost for the season in the first scrimmage to an ACL tear.  We'll also need some from the incoming freshman class to contribute right away.       
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: pointlem on March 11, 2023, 10:21:45 AM
Appreciate your faithful reporting, TU Angola, and your loyalty to your team.

And, yes, next year will be a rebuilding year for both Trine and Hope, and a more even league perhaps (said without knowledge of new recruits to each).
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on March 11, 2023, 11:27:40 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on March 11, 2023, 06:51:59 AM
Just ran into a team that we just didn't match up with very well at all.

100%
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on March 11, 2023, 02:22:00 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on March 11, 2023, 11:27:40 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on March 11, 2023, 06:51:59 AM
Just ran into a team that we just didn't match up with very well at all.

100%

Having Sam Underhill would have helped, but without making shots you aren't going to beat NYU.  We needed to shoot in the 45% range and we weren't close to that number.  NYU's size and defensive ability is the best I've seen this year, any drive to the hoop was met with resistance.  It will be an interesting matchup tonight with NYU and Transylvania.  The Pioneers love to shoot 3's (half of their attempts from last night were from 3) but I think NYU will have the quickness to stay with their shooters, and the length to bother Ball from getting open looks.  I like NYU to advance, but the home court crowd for Transy will be an advantage.  Shooting is contagious, if Transy hits 'em it will be a good game.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: jspiii on March 11, 2023, 06:29:54 PM
I saw NYU at Hope last year and was impressed with their team. Everyone is back, they were my pre-season pick for this year's championship.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on March 11, 2023, 09:34:48 PM
Quote from: jspiii on March 11, 2023, 06:29:54 PM
I saw NYU at Hope last year and was impressed with their team. Everyone is back, they were my pre-season pick for this year's championship.
Well so much for my prediction, Transylvania played a tremendous game and beat NYU 79-63.  The Pioneers played great.  Their game plan was complete opposite compared to last night against ONU where they mostly shot from the perimeter.  They attacked the paint and got NYU's girls in foul trouble.  Stacy was terrific for Transy and Thornton controlled the glass.  By contrast I thought NYU didn't attack the Pioneers zone defense very well and shot mostly 3 pointers.  Bruns was on the bench a lot and that was key.  Pellecchia also didn't have a good game.     
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 14, 2023, 11:48:12 AM
Five MIAA Athletes have been named to the Region 7 all-region teams, including 3 on the first team!!

Player of the Year: Brynn Serbin, G, Ohio Northern
Coach of the Year: Mark Huelsman, Ohio Northern
Rookie of the Year: Madilyn Boyer, G, Penn State-Behrend

First team             
Pos.   Player           School           Yr.   Hometown
G   Brynn Serbin   Ohio Northern   Sr.   Pittsburgh, Pa.
G   Sidney Wagner   Trine   So.   Warsaw, Ind.
F   Savannah Feenstra   Hope   Sr.   Osceola, Ind.
F   Kasey Schipfer   Ohio Wesleyan   Jr.   Mechanicsburg, Ohio
C   Gabby Timmer   Calvin   Sr.   Caledonia, Mich.

Second team             
G   Claire Baguley   Hope   Sr.   Ada, Mich.
G   Bri O'Connor   Capital   So.   Hilliard, Ohio
G   Catherine Or   Carnegie Mellon   So.   Los Angeles, Calif.
G/F   Meghan Dryburgh   Washington and Jefferson   So.   Pittsburgh, Pa.
G/F   Isabella Mills   Case Western Reserve   Sr.   Pittsburgh, Pa.

Third team              
G   Makayla Ardis   Trine   Sr.   Lake City, Mich.
G   Emily Irwin   Baldwin Wallace   So.   Pickerington, Ohio
G   Sidney McCully   Pitt-Greensburg   Sr.   Blairsville, Pa.
G   Danajah Sanders   La Roche   Sr.   Cleveland, Ohio
F   Erin Hahn   Marietta   Sr.   Louisville, Ohio


https://www.d3hoops.com/awards/all-region/2022-23/region-7-women
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on March 27, 2023, 04:54:15 PM
Congratulations to Calvin's Gabby Timmer for being named 2nd team All American by D3hoops.com and Trine's Sidney Wagner for gathering 3rd team honors.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: pointlem on April 02, 2023, 07:07:42 PM
Some fun facts from 2022-2023:
1)   Hope women's 48.4% season shooting was tops among 425 DIII women's teams.
2)   Their 38.2% 3-point shooting also led the DIII world.
3)   The top individual DI 3-point shooter (Alex Giannarus, Boston U), shot 51.6%. Claire Baguley made 54.7% of her 3's, although she attempted too few to be listed at https://www.ncaa.com/stats/basketball-women/d3. (For comparison, Caitlin Clark made 38.7% of her threes, albeit with more unbelievable range and quick release.)

LSU's (>Iowa) almost paranormal 3-point shooting in the first half gave me déjà vu of Wartburg women's first half against the Hope women. Moreover, both first halves ended with killer long-range 3's . . . followed by a third quarter resurgence by the trailing team, with their hopes dashed with their opponents' 4th quarter dominance.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: sac on April 06, 2023, 11:07:53 PM
Hope has received a pair of commitments for 2024/25

Both from Lansing Catholic Central
Leah Richards 6-0 C
Anna Richards 5-8 G

LCC won the D2 State Championship this year and with these two and a strong Jr/So class they should have a great shot again next year.   Leah was 1st team all-state and Anna 2nd team. 
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Riley Zayas on April 07, 2023, 11:58:25 PM
Quote from: sac on April 06, 2023, 11:07:53 PM
Hope has received a pair of commitments for 2024/25

Both from Lansing Catholic Central
Leah Richards 6-0 C
Anna Richards 5-8 G

LCC won the D2 State Championship this year and with these two and a strong Jr/So class they should have a great shot again next year.   Leah was 1st team all-state and Anna 2nd team.

Hope's future is bright and Morehouse is a world-class recruiter. Not often you see kids committing to D3s as juniors in HS, but that is the Hope brand selling itself. Nice to see.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on May 05, 2023, 04:51:45 PM
New Trine commit:

Allie Walther, 5'5 G, Schoolcraft MI.  Transfer from Lake Superior State.  Her high school Hudl video sort of reminds me of Sidney Wagner version 2.0.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on June 30, 2023, 12:13:31 PM
Hope's schedule is out. Nice potential NonConf slate. https://athletics.hope.edu/sports/womens-basketball/schedule/2023-24

I'm not sure how the MIAA (or Region 7) will look with Hope, Trine, and Albion all graduating large and strong classes.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: pointlem on July 01, 2023, 12:48:23 AM
Quote from: scottiedawg on June 30, 2023, 12:13:31 PM
I'm not sure how the MIAA (or Region 7) will look with Hope, Trine, and Albion all graduating large and strong classes.
How true, Scottiedawg . . . a rebuilding year after Hope has bid farewell to superb graduating classes the last two years, with a lot of new faces likely on next year's team.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on July 02, 2023, 12:17:11 PM
The average school returns 70.7% of last year's production.

Hope -> 43%
Trine -> 54%
Calvin -> 39%
Alma -> 86%
Adrian -> 85%
Albion -> 59%
Olivet -> 82%
Kalamazoo -> 89%
St. Mary's -> 67%
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: sac on July 02, 2023, 11:00:31 PM
That's not exactly a "rebuilding year" schedule Hope is playing.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on July 03, 2023, 11:30:06 AM
It's very strong nonConf, I think stronger than last year.  We can quibble with Marian and the Lehman tournament, but I wouldn't.

Since we don't know the state/quality of any of the MIAA teams, this statement is far cart before the horse, but I am guessing the MIAA is a single-bid league this year; I don't think the quality of Hope's and Trine's nonConf will end up mattering, unfortunately. (mattering as far as a Pool C bid--the strength of a schedule matters for far more than just that). I hope to be proven wrong!
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on July 13, 2023, 12:10:52 PM
Any big names using their 5th year option?
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Hope Fan on July 15, 2023, 07:31:34 PM
Gleaning from social media pictures, Hope will not have any 5th year players.

Nevertheless, I speculate Hope can reload.  They had some really good players in role positions last year, and there will be always good newcomers too.  I suspect coach Mo can get them coached up into his system (coaching experienced and new-to-your-system players doesn't always go well, note the bench saw PT diminish late last season).
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on July 16, 2023, 01:09:09 PM
(Please check my logic)

I wanted to see how many Career minutes Hope players had played, that were returning, and compare that number to past years.

The way I accounted for different numbers of total games per season is I scaled minutes played to 33 games (the most games Hope has played over the past handful of seasons).

Year -> Sum of returning minutes (Career)
2023-2024 -> 5,229
2023 -> 7,459
2022 -> 13,131
2021 -> 14,667
2020 -> 9,690
2019 -> 5,946
2018 -> 7,102
2017 -> 9,692
2016 -> 7,245
2015 -> 9,861
2014 -> 6,536
2013 -> 7,437

The value of returning career minutes counts are less insightful, since they're all scaled to that 33 games number.

But looking at the differences between years IS insightful.

Covid basically delayed everything by a year, which (1) extended the playing careers of a lot of key players, (2) drastically reduced bench minutes for 2nd and 3rd stringers, which didn't "catch up" until this year.

Hope's highest returner is Jada Garner, with 746 "scaled career minutes" played. That would rank 55th most over the last 13 seasons.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: NW Hope Fan on July 17, 2023, 12:58:47 AM
Any details on the exit of Megan Bennett?
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: pointlem on July 29, 2023, 10:44:15 AM
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on July 17, 2023, 12:58:47 AM
Any details on the exit of Megan Bennett?
See https://cugoldeneagles.com/news/2023/7/14/hope-college-transfer-megan-bennett-signs-with-the-womens-basketball-program.aspx
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on July 30, 2023, 07:55:03 AM
Trine WBB off to a good start in 2024 recruiting class:

Zoe Willems, 5'7 G, Bethany Christian HS, Goshen IN.  Sister of Albion College F Beck Willems.  Indiana Junior Small School All State Top 15.  1000 pt scorer.  Led team to Class 1A state championship game.

Madison Wagner, 5'10 G, Carroll HS, Flora IN.  Indiana Junior Small School All State Top 15.  1000 pt scorer.

Hailey Cole 5'11 F, Bellmont HS, Decatur IN.  Honorable Mention Junior All State.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on August 29, 2023, 06:08:21 PM
Trine WBB has added an exhibition game to their schedule on November 1st at Ball State. 
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on October 13, 2023, 11:31:45 AM
As the season approaches, here are links to posted schedules and rosters (if available):

Adrian: https://adrianbulldogs.com/sports/womens-basketball/schedule -
Albion: https://gobrits.com/sports/womens-basketball/schedule -
Alma: https://almascots.com/sports/womens-basketball/schedule - https://almascots.com/sports/womens-basketball/roster
Calvin: https://calvinknights.com/sports/womens-basketball/schedule -
Hope: https://athletics.hope.edu/sports/womens-basketball/schedule -
Kalamazoo: https://hornets.kzoo.edu/sports/wbkb/2023-24/schedule - https://hornets.kzoo.edu/sports/wbkb/2023-24/roster
Olivet: https://www.olivetcomets.com/sports/wbkb/2023-24/schedule -
St. Mary's: https://belles.saintmarys.edu/sports/wbkb/2023-24/schedule - https://belles.saintmarys.edu/sports/wbkb/2023-24/roster
Trine: https://www.trinethunder.com/sports/wbkb/2023-24/schedule -
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on October 20, 2023, 08:03:54 AM
Trine's 2023-24 WBB roster is up:

https://trinethunder.com/sports/wbkb/2023-24/roster

Observations:  One addition not known about is freshman Olivia Marks a 5'9 G-F from Hanna IN (South Central HS).  This is a nice get as she was top 15 small school all state along with current Trine incoming frosh Allison Capouch.  None of last years seniors are coming back for a 5th year, we only have one senior on this year's team, Chelsea Giesige.  So hoping she stays healthy as the last two years she has dealt with season ending injuries, she was injured in preseason camp last year.  We have an abundance of guard options, but will be small up front other than Abby.  For sure starters will be Sidney at 1, Katie at 3 and Abby at 5.  Sierra might get the nod at 2 guard, maybe Chelsea depending on how her health is.  4 spot is wide open.  Will need some freshman to help and improvement from a few sophomores.  This is a good incoming freshman class as far as scoring, all 5 were 1000 point scores in HS, but none are post players.  Other newcomer is G Allie Walther a transfer from Lake Superior State, who should slide right in backing up Sidney at PG.       
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on October 20, 2023, 12:49:58 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on October 13, 2023, 11:31:45 AM
As the season approaches, here are links to posted schedules and rosters (if available):

Adrian: https://adrianbulldogs.com/sports/womens-basketball/schedule -
Albion: https://gobrits.com/sports/womens-basketball/schedule -
Alma: https://almascots.com/sports/womens-basketball/schedule - https://almascots.com/sports/womens-basketball/roster
Calvin: https://calvinknights.com/sports/womens-basketball/schedule -
Hope: https://athletics.hope.edu/sports/womens-basketball/schedule -
Kalamazoo: https://hornets.kzoo.edu/sports/wbkb/2023-24/schedule - https://hornets.kzoo.edu/sports/wbkb/2023-24/roster
Olivet: https://www.olivetcomets.com/sports/wbkb/2023-24/schedule -
St. Mary's: https://belles.saintmarys.edu/sports/wbkb/2023-24/schedule - https://belles.saintmarys.edu/sports/wbkb/2023-24/roster
Trine: https://www.trinethunder.com/sports/wbkb/2023-24/schedule -

Couple more rosters are up:

Adrian: https://adrianbulldogs.com/sports/womens-basketball/roster?view=2
Calvin: https://calvinknights.com/sports/womens-basketball/roster?view=2

Wow, Calvin has a lot of height, 7 girls on the roster 6'0 or taller. 
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: calvin_grad on October 20, 2023, 01:55:08 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on October 20, 2023, 12:49:58 PM
Wow, Calvin has a lot of height, 7 girls on the roster 6'0 or taller.
And no seniors.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on October 20, 2023, 02:23:36 PM
I think the bulk of teams will be very underclassmen heavy after the incredible group of Seniors that graduated last year.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on October 23, 2023, 09:57:27 AM
UPDATED: As the season approaches, here are links to posted schedules and rosters (if available):

Adrian: https://adrianbulldogs.com/sports/womens-basketball/schedule - https://adrianbulldogs.com/sports/womens-basketball/roster
Albion: https://gobrits.com/sports/womens-basketball/schedule - https://gobrits.com/sports/womens-basketball/roster
Alma: https://almascots.com/sports/womens-basketball/schedule - https://almascots.com/sports/womens-basketball/roster
Calvin: https://calvinknights.com/sports/womens-basketball/schedule - https://calvinknights.com/sports/womens-basketball/roster
Hope: https://athletics.hope.edu/sports/womens-basketball/schedule -
Kalamazoo: https://hornets.kzoo.edu/sports/wbkb/2023-24/schedule - https://hornets.kzoo.edu/sports/wbkb/2023-24/roster
Olivet: https://www.olivetcomets.com/sports/wbkb/2023-24/schedule -
St. Mary's: https://belles.saintmarys.edu/sports/wbkb/2023-24/schedule - https://belles.saintmarys.edu/sports/wbkb/2023-24/roster
Trine: https://www.trinethunder.com/sports/wbkb/2023-24/schedule - https://www.trinethunder.com/sports/wbkb/2023-24/roster
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on October 23, 2023, 01:40:05 PM
Calvin is returning 31.7% of their 2022-2023 Min/Pts/Reb.  That is the 20th least amount of returning production in all of D3.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on October 24, 2023, 04:17:52 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on October 20, 2023, 02:23:36 PM
I think the bulk of teams will be very underclassmen heavy after the incredible group of Seniors that graduated last year.

Feels Like Albion may have a foot up in this regard, returning 55% of their minutes, 58% of their scoring, and 68% of their rebounding.  This coming off a 17-10 (10-6  MIAA) record with wins over both Trine and Hope. 
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: sac on October 25, 2023, 11:38:03 AM
Beavers and Davis were two huge graduations for the Brits
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on October 25, 2023, 12:14:10 PM
Quote from: sac on October 25, 2023, 11:38:03 AM
Beavers and Davis were two huge graduations for the Brits

Both are on this years roster, listed as seniors

https://gobrits.com/sports/womens-basketball/roster
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: sac on October 25, 2023, 07:57:33 PM
Well I'll be
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on October 26, 2023, 11:00:44 PM
Hope's roster posted: https://athletics.hope.edu/sports/wbball/roster/

Among those that accrued stats last year, not on this year's roster: Kendall Sietsema, Carlee Crabtree, Lina Rea, Megan Bennett.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on October 27, 2023, 07:47:40 AM
Quote from: scottiedawg on October 26, 2023, 11:00:44 PM
Hope's roster posted: https://athletics.hope.edu/sports/wbball/roster/

Among those that accrued stats last year, not on this year's roster: Kendall Sietsema, Carlee Crabtree, Lina Rea, Megan Bennett.

Sietsema is a surprise - at least to me.  Crabtree left mid-season last year (personal decision), Bennett transferred to Cornerstone, and Rea is on the JV roster this year.

New to the roster includes 3 freshman (Brunsberg, Guy, and Maynard), 2 players from last years JV (SO Nemens and JR Robak) and a transfer, SO Lily Miller.  Miller is from Norton Shores, and played her FR year at UM Dearborn.  In 28 games she averaged 15min, 6.5pts, and 4.6reb.

Also of note, Hope announced yesterday that Courtney Kust has been promoted to Associate Head Coach.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: sac on October 27, 2023, 10:33:45 AM
I never knew this until just now, but man am I glad its not called Hoipe College.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on October 27, 2023, 12:48:04 PM
Quote from: sac on October 27, 2023, 10:33:45 AM
I never knew this until just now, but man am I glad its not called Hoipe College.
;D ;D ;D

fixed it above
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on October 27, 2023, 05:20:19 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on October 26, 2023, 11:00:44 PM
Hope's roster posted: https://athletics.hope.edu/sports/wbball/roster/

Among those that accrued stats last year, not on this year's roster: Kendall Sietsema, Carlee Crabtree, Lina Rea, Megan Bennett.

This is the first year in quite some time where Hope maybe has more 'unknowns' than 'knowns' on their roster.  Just like Trine each squad only has 1 senior.  Trine with a tad bit more experience in a few positions but still with lots of uncertainty.  Could Albion be the favorite in the MIAA this year?
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on October 27, 2023, 05:29:25 PM
They definitely could be.  But by any measure (Win%, SOS, Massey, NCAA Resume, polls) Albion was a good bit behind Hope, Trine, and Calvin last year. And while Albion returns the most production of the 4, they still graduated a lot.  The MIAA is a whole basket of unknown for me this year.  I think if Beavers takes a step forward, stays out of foul control, plays a lot more minutes, then Albion is absolutely the favorite. Especially with how much frontcourt talent Hope, Trine, and Calvin lost.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on November 01, 2023, 05:35:36 PM
The D3hoops.com 2023-24 Preseason WBB All-American team announced today.  Sidney Wagner from Trine is on the second team.  No other MIAA players selected.

If you follow D3 hoops (men or women) there should be no question who the preseason #1 ranked team will be in WBB...New York University.  Check out this super talented roster:

6'1 Morgan Morrison, grad transfer from Smith College, National Player of the Year in D3 last season, Preseason first team All-American
6'1 Natalie Bruns, senior, returning starter, Preseason first team All-American
5'7 Meagan Bauman, grad transfer from Babson College, Preseason third team All American
5'8 Belle Pellechia, junior, returning starter, Honorable Mention All American last year
5'11 Laya Hartman, grad transfer from D1 Northwestern University
5'9 Erica Miller, grad student, returning starter
6'0 Caroline Peper, soph, UAA rookie of the year from last year
5'8 Mary Kate Fahey, junior, top reserve from last year
5'5 Jordan Janowski, senior, injured and did not play last season, was 2nd team UAA in 2021-22

They do lose Jenny Walker and another starter form last year, but who boy did they reload!!

Anyone else seeing any other teams coming within a sniff of NYU this season?
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on November 01, 2023, 06:13:53 PM
I think the team that has won 60 of their last 61 games, is the defending national champion, and returns 4 of 5 starters will be decent. ;-)
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on November 01, 2023, 07:24:13 PM
Quote from: scottiedawg on November 01, 2023, 06:13:53 PM
I think the team that has won 60 of their last 61 games, is the defending national champion, and returns 4 of 5 starters will be decent. ;-)

True...I didn't realize 3 of their 4 seniors from last year were coming back for a 5th year.  They will be formidable as well. 

Anyone know who that one loss was against? Anyone?  ::)
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on November 01, 2023, 07:32:08 PM
These are the returning 5th years I have tracked for the top ~12 teams or so:


   
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
PlayerTeamMINPTSREB
Brynn SerbinOhio Northern879391169
Megan BealerDeSales744382168
Kennedi StacyTransylvania713374145
Dasia ThorntonTransylvania695324248
Laken BallTransylvania638292152
Macy HarrisWartburg730258130
Bria FullerTrinity (Conn)68619162
Hannah AngeliniScranton733180149
Erica MillerNYU53417923
Katy RaderChristopher Newport49417953
Hanna ThrainsdottirNYU3227371
Kyra QuigleyScranton000
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on November 01, 2023, 09:31:55 PM
Exhibition final tonight:  Ball State 100 Trine 41.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: monsoon on November 02, 2023, 03:37:48 PM
Preseason Top 25 is out:
https://www.d3hoops.com/top25/women/2023-24/preseason (https://www.d3hoops.com/top25/women/2023-24/preseason)

Trine: 17
Hope: 21
Calvin: ORV

Transylvania is 1, with NYU at 2.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on November 02, 2023, 05:21:23 PM
Quote from: monsoon on November 02, 2023, 03:37:48 PM
Preseason Top 25 is out:
https://www.d3hoops.com/top25/women/2023-24/preseason (https://www.d3hoops.com/top25/women/2023-24/preseason)

Trine: 17
Hope: 21
Calvin: ORV

Transylvania is 1, with NYU at 2.

Nice for the MIAA to get some squads in the polls, however both Hope and Trine have graduated a bevy of extremely talented players from the past two seasons.  The Flying Dutchmen and Thunder will be inexperienced in some spots.  We'll see how November and December plays out as both teams have some tough non-conference matchups that will give us an idea on what to expect this season.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: pointlem on November 03, 2023, 07:42:50 AM
Quote from: TUAngola on November 02, 2023, 05:21:23 PM
Nice for the MIAA to get some squads in the polls, however both Hope and Trine have graduated a bevy of extremely talented players from the past two seasons.  The Flying Dutchmen and Thunder will be inexperienced in some spots.  We'll see how November and December plays out as both teams have some tough non-conference matchups that will give us an idea on what to expect this season.
Agreed, TUAngola. Hope the last two years has graduated two exceptional groups of players who accomplished amazing things, making Coach Morehouse look like the John Wooden of DIII women's basketball. Now it's back to earth, surely with fewer blow-out 40 point wins and more exciting games. And a chance for new players to enjoy their chance to shine.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: HOPEful on November 03, 2023, 08:35:04 AM
Quote from: pointlem on November 03, 2023, 07:42:50 AM
Agreed, TUAngola. Hope the last two years has graduated two exceptional groups of players who accomplished amazing things, making Coach Morehouse look like the John Wooden of DIII women's basketball. Now it's back to earth, surely with fewer blow-out 40 point wins and more exciting games. And a chance for new players to enjoy their chance to shine.

I'm excited to see what an off-season and being thrust into a much bigger role does for Karsen, Keegan, and Sydney's games. All 3 showed promise as freshmen, so fingers crossed that there's a sophomore leap in their play. Throw in the upperclassmen Jada and Raven and there's reason to be excited about this team.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 08, 2023, 02:06:27 PM
MIAA Coaches poll is out:

https://www.miaa.org/sports/wbkb/2023-24/releases/PreseasonPoll

Rank  Team Points  First-Place Votes
1.   Trine           8 points   8
2.   Hope     18 points   1
3.   Albion   20 points   
T4.   Alma           32 points   
T4.   Calvin   32 points   
6.   Adrian   47 points   
7.   Saint Mary's   50 points   
8.   Olivet   54 points   
9.   Kalamazoo   63 points   
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on November 08, 2023, 05:23:43 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on July 30, 2023, 07:55:03 AM
Trine WBB off to a good start in 2024 recruiting class:

Zoe Willems, 5'7 G, Bethany Christian HS, Goshen IN.  Sister of Albion College F Beck Willems.  Indiana Junior Small School All State Top 15.  1000 pt scorer.  Led team to Class 1A state championship game.

Madison Wagner, 5'10 G, Carroll HS, Flora IN.  Indiana Junior Small School All State Top 15.  1000 pt scorer.

Hailey Cole 5'11 F, Bellmont HS, Decatur IN.  Honorable Mention Junior All State.

3 more to add to this list:

Jocelyn Love, 5'7 G, Lapel HS, Lapel IN.  Team finished as Class 2A state runners up last season.  Fun fact, assistant coach is Trine alum and WBB guard on the Final Four team, Kaylee (Argyle) Huckabee.

Emma Payton, 6'0 F, Burlington Central HS, Burlington IL (west of Chicago).

Lily Johnson, 5'11 F, Lakota West HS, West Chester OH (north of Cincinnati). 

Nice to see some interior recruits in this class so far.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: AlwaysHope on November 10, 2023, 10:09:24 AM
Did you notice that Hope's WBB 5-11 Freshman Guard Chloe Brunsburg from Minnesota led the team in scoring and rebounding.  She made 5 out of 11 shots, including 2 threes, plus gathered in 8 rebounds (4 offensive) in only 13 minutes of play. Keep your eye on her!  It was her first collegiate game.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on November 10, 2023, 10:14:05 AM
Quote from: AlwaysHope on November 10, 2023, 10:09:24 AM
Did you notice that Hope's WBB 5-11 Freshman Guard Chloe Brunsburg from Minnesota led the team in scoring and rebounding.  She made 5 out of 11 shots, including 2 threes, plus gathered in 8 rebounds (4 offensive) in only 13 minutes of play. Keep your eye on her!  It was her first collegiate game.

Maynard and Brunsberg were quite impressive. Some players just look different on the floor. Better comfort, better awareness, better physical instincts. You could see it with Karlblom from day one last year. Different sets of skills between all three of course, but I had a similar feeling watching them.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on November 15, 2023, 09:34:26 PM
Trine (#17) opens up the '23-'24 season with a hard fought win over Baldwin Wallace (RV) 62-60.  This is a great win over a very good BW team who was picked 2nd in the OAC behind Ohio Northern.  It would have been nice to ease into the season a bit, especially since BW had 2 quality wins under their belts already.  Starters were Wagner, Hinds, Rhonehouse, Tate and Sanner.  We were good defensively the first half, went into break with a 3 point lead.  BW came out hot and jumped out to a 3 point lead early in the third quarter and held onto the lead throughout the first few minutes of the 4th.  The whole second half was choppy however with an abundance of whistles, the refs did not let the game flow at all, both teams were in the bonus early in both the 3rd and 4th quarters.  We hit just enough free throws down the stretch to pull it out, but had anxious moments at the end by missing 2 with .6 seconds to play.  BW called a timeout and ran a halfcourt play to lob the ball to the block, but Wagner made a good defensive play to get a hand on the ball to run out the clock.  Offensively we weren't pretty, but I can't fault the effort at all.  Erin Sherwood was huge for us off the bench with 16 points.  She didn't play much as a freshman last year coming off a knee injury her senior year in high school.  She is still wearing a full length brace, but you can see she put in a lot of work over the summer, is in much better shape.  We needed her as Abby Sanner had a tough outing tonight.  It was great to see Chelsi Giesige back on the court after 2 season ending injuries the last 2 years.  She is not 100% and also plays with a full length leg brace, but gave us good minutes and energy.  Sidney wasn't stellar on the offensive end but still ended up with 16 points.  However it was her lockdown defense on BW all-conference point guard Emily Irwin that was the difference in the game, holding her to 0 points.  We have lots to work on as a team.  I wasn't sure what to expect, but thrilled we could beat a good team like BW.   
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: pointlem on November 18, 2023, 05:13:16 PM
Two more excellent games from the young flying Dutch, who, despite the graduation of all last year's starters (and of the national championship starters the year before), are looking like they unexpectedly merit that preseason top 25 ranking.

What hasn't changed is the Morehouse-Kust offensive (up tempo energy from at least 10 players). The player depth also means fresher 2nd half legs, when once again Hope came from behind to win 80 to 73—a score that does not indicate the game's back-and-forth closeness.

For Hope today, 46% 3-point shooting, winning the bench points 37 to 7, and a career-high 20 points from Olivia Bellows overcame a 9 rebound deficit and 27 points by Illinois Wesleyan's athletic Lauren Huber.

IWU, which suffered its first loss, plays much like Hope—well-coached, up tempo, and pressure defense . . . and surely must be destined to be a CCIW contender.

All in all, an exciting game between two quite similar teams.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on November 19, 2023, 05:28:34 PM
Results from this weekend's Cameron Hospital Classic Tournament at Trine.

Saturday:
Wittenberg 76 Albion 60
Trine 78 Muskingum 47

Sunday:
Albion 64 Muskingum 58 OT
Wittenberg 65 Trine 59

Wittenberg backs up their opening game upset of #10 Ohio Northern by coming to Angola and looking very impressive in their wins over Albion yesterday and Trine this afternoon.  Their quickness off the dribble caused the Thunder all sorts of problems.  Cash and Gains-Burns are a nice backcourt tandem and then Wolshire was fantastic too with a good inside-out game.  We're going to have growing pains this year.  We're not very deep, we need to find some offensive production off the bench other than Sherwood.  We're dinged up a little too.  Allie Walther went down very early in yesterday's game with what appears to be a severe ankle injury.  She was being counted on to give the second unit a spark of production off the bench.  We have too much standing around waiting for Sidney to make a play, if we don't get a better balance we're going to struggle against good teams.  So far Coach Rang has been reluctant to get more of the freshmen in, other than Horton and Capouch.  Tringali is one I'd like to see in there simply for the fact she can really shoot it.  She showed that yesterday with a quick 8 points in 4 minutes of playing time.  Sometimes you have to sacrifice a little defensive inexperience to let your scorers play.  Just need to keep their heads up and try to improve as the season goes on. 

The early 'eye test' between Hope and Trine shows Hope as the better and deeper team of the two this year.  Hope has been impressive from what I've seen of their games so far.   
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: sac on November 19, 2023, 10:21:46 PM
Sarah LaPrarie 5-7 G  Rochester Stoney Creek has committed to Hope.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on November 29, 2023, 05:04:29 PM
MIAA WBB opens up conference play with 2 big games right out of the gate tonight:

Hope @ Albion 7pm
Trine @ Calvin 7:30pm

I've seen Trine and Albion in person, Hope and Calvin live stream.  Albion is a team that can be really good and is probably the most experienced in the league along with Alma.  If Beavers can give them production, they are tough to defend.  In the Albion games in Angola 10 days ago it appeared Beavers may have been coming off an injury as she didn't start either game, and looked gassed when she did get extended playing time, so it might be a matter of getting back into playing shape.  Hope is relatively young, but the pieces are still there to be probably the best all around and deepest team in the league.  Calvin is another young team, but is playing good defense and is a good rebounding team with a lot of nice interior post players.  Trine is also a young squad.  They suffered a set back to Wittenberg 10 days ago but had a nice bounce back win last weekend on the road at Ohio Northern, which was ranked preseason but has suffered some tough losses against good competition.  Trine's huge weakness is rebounding, I think they are last in the league if I remember seeing that correctly.  That is where Albion, Hope and Calvin excel is rebounding.  With Hope and Trine playing on the road I'd have Albion and Calvin as slight favorites tonight.

Alma is looking good too.  They beat Wittenberg at home in 2 OT after Wittenberg had defeated both Albion and Trine the previous weekend.  Sas is awfully good, I'd say she is the player of the year so far in the MIAA.  You got to know where she is at all the time on defense or she will burn you.  I think I read she broke Alma's single game scoring record with her performance against Wittenberg, she finished with 39 points.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on November 29, 2023, 09:12:31 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on November 29, 2023, 05:04:29 PM
With Hope and Trine playing on the road I'd have Albion and Calvin as slight favorites tonight.

...so much for my prediction.  ::)

Hope 68 Albion 51
Trine 67 Calvin 50
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on December 16, 2023, 03:59:21 PM
#24 UW-Stout 77 #17 Trine 76

Trine with probably their best half of basektball this season led by 10 at the break 43-33.  Then the Blue Devils came out and quickly erased that lead scoing the first eight before Trine got on the board.  Stout took their first lead in the 3rd quarter but Trine with a bucket at the buzzer took a 1 point lead heading to the 4th quarter 60-59.  This time it was the Thunder who went on a scoring flurry to jump out to a 70-59 lead 4 minutes in, but the Blue Devils kept fighting back.  Some missed free throws and a couple turnovers in the last few minutes hurt the Thunder when they could have kept Stout at bay, but some clutch shooting by Sorensen including a contested jumper over Wagner with 3 seconds to go put Stout up 77-76.  We call timeout and get the ball at halfcourt.  An inbounds play was run for Wagner but she gets fouled before she can get a shot off as Stout had 3 fouls to give.  We get the ball on the baseline with Wagner the trigger, we run a nice screen in the lane to get the ball to Sherwood but her contested shot under the basket just rimmed out at the buzzer.

It was a fun game to watch, both teams went toe to toe.  Stout was by far the best team we've played this season that I've seen in person, even better than Wittenberg.  They are a well coached experienced team with very good players.  We were fortunate that Sorensen got into foul trouble the first half and sat a lot.  In the second half her play was the difference.  Stout is balanced offensively but she is their go to gal when they need a bucket, evidenced by the 14 points she scored in the 4th quarter.  Giesen is also a very good interior player, physcial with a lot of skills.  Trine got a lot of good contributions, Wagner had 21, Capouch 14, Sherwood 11, Rhonehouse 11, and Hinds 10.  The freshman Capouch with her best game off the bench, had 3 triples.  She gives us another offensive threat when she's in the game.  Defensively she is behind though, as freshman typically are. 

The Thunder are back at it with a holiday tournament Tuesday and Wednesday at MTI. Calvin is their partner as both the Knights and Thunder will alternate playing Asbury and Geneva.   
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: NW Hope Fan on December 20, 2023, 08:43:50 PM
Nice win tonight for the Flying Dutch! Merry Christmas.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Hope Fan on February 23, 2024, 10:20:16 AM
Super happy this site is back up.
Not much of a MIAA race this year with Hope running away in the standings.
But Hope could have lost any number of games.
Not sure if that last loss shows weakness or if it was a needed wake up ala National Championship year.
Either way, one of four teams is going to win tonight and tomorrow to earn the right to play again next week and the other three are goin' fishing.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 23, 2024, 12:14:41 PM
Quote from: Hope Fan on February 23, 2024, 10:20:16 AMSuper happy this site is back up.
Not much of a MIAA race this year with Hope running away in the standings.
But Hope could have lost any number of games.
Not sure if that last loss shows weakness or if it was a needed wake up ala National Championship year.
Either way, one of four teams is going to win tonight and tomorrow to earn the right to play again next week and the other three are goin' fishing.

How many go fishing depends on if Hope wins twice or not.  Should they falter in either game, the Dutch are still pretty solidly in as a Pool C.  A non-Hope winner on Saturday should mean the MIAA is a two-bid league.  Hope winning it all likely gets them a good chance to host the first weekend. 
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on February 25, 2024, 09:56:03 AM
Congratulations to Trine in punching their ticket to the NCAA tournament last night with a win over Hope.  This was the 7th straight year that Hope & Trine have met in the championship game.  I did not see this coming from watching our ladies over the course of the year.  You'll have ups and downs with such a young team.  Playing in DeVos seems to bring out the best in the Thunder as we typically play well on Hope's home court.  The win assures the MIAA of continuing to be multi-bid league in the NCAA tournament as Hope is a lock for a Pool C slot. 
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: pointlem on February 26, 2024, 02:54:53 PM
Interesting that DePauw with seven losses (including to Millikin by 33, which Hope defeated) gets chosen to host over three-loss Hope . . . but perhaps SOS is the difference maker? Regardless, not an intimidating first-round bracket for the Hope women (who regardless of next weekend's outcome have realized their potential this year and been great fun to watch).

Nice that Hope and Trine are on opposite sides of the bracket, so they could meet again in the national championship. But with NYU and Transylvania on Hope's bracket side, that's not gonna happen (interesting that they didn't place those two schools on opposite sides).
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 26, 2024, 03:16:41 PM
Quote from: pointlem on February 26, 2024, 02:54:53 PMInteresting that DePauw with seven losses (including to Millikin by 33, which Hope defeated) gets chosen to host over three-loss Hope . . . but perhaps SOS is the difference maker? Regardless, not an intimidating first-round bracket for the Hope women (who regardless of next weekend's outcome have realized their potential this year and been great fun to watch).

Nice that Hope and Trine are on opposite sides of the bracket, so they could meet again in the national championship. But with NYU and Transylvania on Hope's bracket side, that's not gonna happen (interesting that they didn't place those two schools on opposite sides).

Pretty sure that had Hope won the MIAA Tournament, that pod would be at Hope instead of Greencastle.  Historcally, Hope playing at DePauw in the sectionals in 2006 worked out just fine
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Roundball999 on February 27, 2024, 09:23:23 AM
Quote from: Hope Fan on February 23, 2024, 10:20:16 AMSuper happy this site is back up.
Not much of a MIAA race this year with Hope running away in the standings.
But Hope could have lost any number of games.
Not sure if that last loss shows weakness or if it was a needed wake up ala National Championship year.
Either way, one of four teams is going to win tonight and tomorrow to earn the right to play again next week and the other three are goin' fishing.

I think the Dutch have done a fantastic job this year, pulling out many close games at the end.  That kind of poise under pressure is rare at this level.  I also think they've played to their potential most of the year, a sign of great effort and focus by the women and usual excellent coaching by Coach Morehouse.  That said, they are clearly more vulnerable than many Dutch teams in the past.  The reason I believe that is primarily the lack of the stifling and disruptive defense of past years.  Scoring margin, steals, TO margin in particular are way below recent memory.    That defense previously could carry the Dutch through the occasional off shooting night.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on February 27, 2024, 10:13:40 AM
Quote from: pointlem on February 26, 2024, 02:54:53 PMInteresting that DePauw with seven losses (including to Millikin by 33, which Hope defeated) gets chosen to host over three-loss Hope . . . but perhaps SOS is the difference maker? Regardless, not an intimidating first-round bracket for the Hope women (who regardless of next weekend's outcome have realized their potential this year and been great fun to watch).

Nice that Hope and Trine are on opposite sides of the bracket, so they could meet again in the national championship. But with NYU and Transylvania on Hope's bracket side, that's not gonna happen (interesting that they didn't place those two schools on opposite sides).

I believe DePauw was chosen over Illinois Wesleyan (and to a lesser extent Hope), because of geography.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2024, 04:06:12 PM

I'm almost positive DePauw was chosen strictly for geography.  If they were going to choose a host who hadn't earned a Top 16 spot, they picked the very best one for bracketing and didn't worry about resume.  DePauw is exactly where they needed to help balance the bracket.  It was a very good, bold call that definitely would not have been done in the past.

Megan Wilson, who was the committee chair last year, led the bracketing charge this season, and I'm a huge fan.  I think it's easily the best WBB bracket we've ever had.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on February 29, 2024, 07:33:44 PM
Good luck to the Trine Thunder WBB team tomorrow as they take on #5 ranked 25-2 Gustavus Adolphus in Oshkosh WI.  It will take a massive effort by the Thunder to beat the Gusties.  They have no weaknesses, all 5 of their starters are all-conference.  We'll need to shoot it better than our season average and hope Gustavus has an off night.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 01, 2024, 06:40:02 PM
I feel spoiled by how great the AUDIO and video are for games played at DeVos...
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on March 02, 2024, 11:10:51 AM
Congratulations to the Trine WBB team for a huge win over #5 Gustavus Adolphus last night 61-58 in 2OT.  This team has a lot of grit.  Not the most talented or athletic of past Thunder teams, but when it comes to tournament time Trine always seems to ratchet it up a notch.  The key during this stretch has been Katie Tate stepping up, she's been huge lately.  Need that consistent second or third option to help take the load off of Sidney.  Another unsung gal who doesn't get the gaudy stats is soph Jada Rhonehouse.  Her defense has been terrific this year and has been providing more offense in the second half of the season.

Good luck tonight against #18 UW-Oshkosh at their place.  Can we make it 2 upsets this weekend?   
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on March 03, 2024, 11:21:22 AM
We're waiting quite a bit for hosts, but I expect Hope to be at UW-Whitewater.

Only thing I can think of (RE: Reason for delay) is the WBB Committee is trying to get an extra flight approved so the host can be Transylvania.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 03, 2024, 11:30:46 AM
Quote from: scottiedawg on March 03, 2024, 11:21:22 AMWe're waiting quite a bit for hosts, but I expect Hope to be at UW-Whitewater.

Only thing I can think of (RE: Reason for delay) is the WBB Committee is trying to get an extra flight approved so the host can be Transylvania.

Just have Hope host and you get zero flights 😀😀
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on March 03, 2024, 11:37:36 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 03, 2024, 11:30:46 AM
Quote from: scottiedawg on March 03, 2024, 11:21:22 AMWe're waiting quite a bit for hosts, but I expect Hope to be at UW-Whitewater.

Only thing I can think of (RE: Reason for delay) is the WBB Committee is trying to get an extra flight approved so the host can be Transylvania.

Just have Hope host and you get zero flights 😀😀

ALSO zero flights to Whitewater! (unfortunately for Hope and me).
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Dutchfan on March 03, 2024, 02:52:01 PM
Hope will be at UW-Whitewater.

Hope was eligible to host, being 495 miles from UW-Stout.
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: TUAngola on March 03, 2024, 04:00:47 PM
Trine loses second round game to #18 UW-Oshkosh 74-48.  Just ran into a buzz saw last night as the Titans shot 55.6% from the floor including an atonishing 12-19 from three for 63.2%.  Oh yeah throw in a perfect 12-12 from the line.  Just to be able to win the MIAA tournament and get to the dance is a huge accomplishment for this young team.  Beating Gustavus in the first round shows you how far they have come.  We lose just one Senior in Chelsi Giesige who battled with injuries for most of her 4 years at Trine.  The future looks bright for the Thunder.  8-)   
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: scottiedawg on March 03, 2024, 06:09:34 PM
Quote from: TUAngola on March 03, 2024, 04:00:47 PMWe lose just one Senior in Chelsi Giesige who battled with injuries for most of her 4 years at Trine.  The future looks bright for the Thunder.  8-)   

Points scored by players not listed as SR or GR:
Hope - 92.64%
Trine - 98.62%
Calvin - 100.00%
Albion - 53.54%


MIAA will be a war, and Region 7 as a whole


Carnegie Mellon - 96.70%
Chatham - 96.01%
Denison - 95.96%
DePauw - 95.73%
Washington & Jefferson - 87.24%
Penn State Behrend - 86.12%
Capital - 84.37%
Baldwin Wallace - 81.29%
Wittenberg - 75.24%
Ohio Northern - 70.98%
Oberlin - 63.83%
John Carroll - 58.76%
Ohio Wesleyan - 52.10%
Marietta - 40.50%
Case Western - 30.99%
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 04, 2024, 01:06:40 PM
Hope v UWW @ UWW, and I suspect there are a number of UWW players looking to avenge their loss to Hope in the 2022 National Championship game. 

Here are the players that are playing this season and their quick stats from the 2022 game:

Hope:
Jada Gardner - 1 min
Courtney Lee - 1 min
Hannah Kurncz - 1 min
Olivia Bellows - 1 min

UWW:
Aleah Grundahl - 38 min - 11pts - 3 reb - 5 ast
Kacie Carollo - 34 min - 11 pts - 5 reb - 3 ast
Maggie Trautsch - 28 mi - 0 pts - 3 reb - 2 ast
Mallory Oloffson - 1 min
Lunden Alexander - 1 min

Not that in the Sweet 16 you need any extra motiviation, but I just thought it interesting.  Here is some stats & such comparing them this season:

Offense   % 2pt% 3pt   % FT
Hope   45.236  73.1
UWW   48.229.9   73.3
------    
Defense   % 2pt% 3pt   
Hope   41.128.9 
UWW   42.526.4   
------    
Rebounding   TeamOpp   Margin
Hope   41.934.4  7.5
UWW   39.434.6   4.8
------    
Scoring   TeamOpp   Margin
Hope   75.455.9  19.5
UWW   7157.1   13.9
------    
3 point shooting   Made/game   
Hope   8.7 
UWW   6.6   
------    
Ball Control   Stl/gameTO/Game   OppTO/Game
Hope   10.914.6  19.5
UWW   9.515.1   18.9
------    
Ball Control   Asst/gameA/TO   Blks/game
Hope   12.80.88  3.1
UWW   14.30.95   3.6
------    
Efficiency - points per 100 possessions   AdjOAdjD   AdjEM
from d3datacast.com   OffenseDefense   Margin
Hope   104.973.6  31.3
UWW   105.366.9   38.5
------    
(vRRO includes NCAA games played)   vRROIn-Div SOS   Massey Predicts
Hope   5-20.544  63
UWW   8-30.648   69


Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: pointlem on March 09, 2024, 07:52:05 AM
Kudos to the Hope women for an outstanding—exceeding expectations—season, including their grit last evening after facing an 18 point halftime deficit to a hot-shooting Whitewater (led by some of the top talent from its national championship game against Hope). And how great that Raven Jemison completed her career as the team's top scorer, with a career-best 14 points on 7 of 8 shooting.

With all the rest of the team returning, plus any new recruits?, Hope women's BB fans are already looking forward to next season.

Thanks also to Greg Chandler for following this team and broadcasting with such verve and affection (which he couldn't resist displaying with a little hilarity last night, when lamenting the referees missing a Hope player getting flattened, and moments later being charged with a mere touch foul: "It's hard to win when you are playing five against eight").
Title: Re: WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 12, 2024, 04:03:28 PM
D3hoops All Region awards are out, and the MIAA is well represented in Region 7:

Jada Garner - Hope - 1st team
Sidney Wagner - Trine - 1st team
Taylor Sas - Alma -  2nd team
Sydney Vis - Hope - 2nd team
RyAnn Rorher - Calvin -  3rd team

https://www.d3hoops.com/awards/all-region/2023-24/region-7-women