MBB: Northwest Conference

Started by The Show, March 06, 2005, 08:40:16 PM

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(509)Rat

Look, as much as you don't like all-star teams I got you to comment on a couple of posters' lists and contribute...mission accomplished  ;)

Keandre

Ok, what does everyone think about the games Thursday? Very good match up in Tacoma with Puget Sound and Whitman. I think LC is playing pretty well and if they can control themselves from taking bad shots, they will have a chance to compete.

(509)Rat

I've said this before, but a "traditional" lineup (with a true post in Gittens) presents problems for Whitman. I don't know if I said it about UPS specifically but that was a point I made last year after the Chapman guys were upset I said that I'd put money on Whitman to beat them. If this was 1 month ago I go Whitman. But since UPS was finally able to not only beat Whitman in Walla Walla, but also string together some impressive wins after, I'll pick the Loggers at home...by 5 after some last second FT's secure the W. I really hope I'm right. Whitman scares me (as a Whitworth fan) more than UPS does. I feel like I know what I can expect from the Loggers and across the board Whitworth has favorable matchups. With Whitman? Only the good Lord has any idea how they are gonna play against the Bucs on any given night  :-[

Whitworth is playing their best basketball of the season. At least offensively...83, 85, 79, 78, 82, 95, 76, 81, 93. Whitworth is very good defensively as well (#2 in ppg allowed, behind Whitman). Combine all of that with the atmosphere at the Fieldhouse and an LC victory is a longshot. I think this game ends up like the Willamette game last week. Close in the first half, Whitworth opens up a 10-11 point lead, then LC makes little runs throughout closing it to 6-8 on occasion. Whitworth ends up winning by 15

Then we reminisce, as the Pirates and the Loggers square off for another NWC tournament championship.

playball

Quote from: A Buc Forever on February 20, 2012, 08:41:53 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 20, 2012, 09:07:19 AM
A Buc,

I don't mind all-star teams because they generally reward guys who deserve it and there are always a few who never had team success in college. I have no problem with them getting their moment in the sun. As for Gebbers and Conti; You are right about Conti being on an inferior team, which probably explains his higher ppg. But, that does NOT explain the fact that he led the league in total assists, a/TO ratio, and Steals...In fact, being on a lesser team, you would expect the assist and a/TO ratio to be worse than Gebbers. PLU wasn't terrible, they took Whitworth to OT once and to the last second another time. But you put Gebbers on that team and they probably aren't any better. So saying that Conti doesn't deserve a spot because he wasn't 15-1 is really poor reasoning.


Rat,

Not poor reasoning at all to suggest that 15-1 is more important than a difference in scoring average of 0.1 or assists difference of 1 a game, etc. That stats difference between the two players is very marginal and IMHO winning supersedes all else.  The question is whether a player makes a difference in the Win/Loss column. That is a hard question to answer in most cases.  However, when two players have almost identical stats (I'm talking clinically significant difference vs statistically significant difference--we speak the same language so you know what I mean) and one team is 9-6 and the other is 15-1 then I'd give the edge to the point guard on the 15-1 team.

The other issue I have with all-star teams is how offense is valued over defense to such great degree.  The fact that Clay Gebbers was never even given honorable mention in his career at Whitworth demonstrates that point.

The other example that shows the difference between a 15-1 team and teams at the lower end of the league is playball's assertion that Zach Anderson would start on any team in the conference. Not sure that is true. Who would he start over on WW. Not Gebbers or Felix--not the right positions.  I'll take Lasisi over him any day--if Anderson had his athletic ability he'd be the starting QB for the Beavers and would not be playing basketball at Linfield.  When Larkin and Loofburrow weren't healthy he'd have started, but Loofburrow has height, weight, shooting, etc., all over Anderson.  With that offensive firepower you need the best defender on the team at that 5th spot. Had he played for WW would Anderson have beaten out Larkin for that last starting spot?  Not so sure. So a first team all league pick from a 3-13 team might not have started on the 15-1 team.  So Rat, that's why 15-1 matters and all-league teams are questionable.

After all that, I'll go with playbill's pick and give Conti the first team all-league position.  However, with the loss of Felix, Loofburrow, and Lasisi, if WW goes 15-1 next year, Gebbers is unquestionably the POTY next year (unless I can get Jeremy Lin's brother to transfer to WW).

Id put Anderson over Loofburrow for sure!  Anderson has a mid range game and is able to create his own shot.  From what Ive seen, Loofburrow doesn't create or have much mid range.  Hes a catch and shoot guy.  Andrson also can operate in the post.  I would be surprised if Loofburrow spent half his minutes anywhere near the rim, its not really his game and it isnt needed by the WW system.  He is a good player, but the averages by anderson are more impressive since it was for a much higher volume of shots.

Keandre

I agree Rat, but, if the loggers can win, what can they do to beat WW in Spokane?

A Buc Forever

LC can get hot and beat anyone, but hard to sustain for a full game against someone like WW.  I'm not worried about Thursday night (famous last words). However, Saturday night will be tough with either team. UPS is solid and getting better.  Whitman scares all WW fans.

Playball, I see why you say that Loofburrow does not have a mid-range or inside game, but you're mistaken.  The problem is he doesn't like to work hard on getting inside. He'd rather catch and shoot. I think the best part of his game is inside. Hayford made him play inside.  Logie has decided to just let him hang outside.  I don't think he's as effective this way, but it seems to be working.

I do have to give Anderson credit for scoring 11 and 24 against WW this year.  Last year's league leading scorer had a little trouble scoring on them. ;)


playball

Starting to get tired of your zings.  Loofburrow didn't play much inside last year either, at least against us and all the film I watched. 



A Buc Forever

Sorry about the zing.  Can't be worse than a baseball locker room though.

I'm not saying Loofburrow goes inside much, but when he does, Whitworth is at their best and he's the hardest player on their team to stop. I'm hoping that he gets inside in the league playoffs. If he does I don't think anyone in the conference will stand a chance against WW. 

playball

We find other instances of failure to pick on! haha 

I dont think WW's chances hinge on Loofburrow at all.  They are going to win the NWC championship, regular season and tournament, I have no doubt.  They have done just fine with him out, as reflected in their overall record.  I dont really see him as a very good defensive player (I could be wrong, but he didnt stick out as a stopper), and WW already has three scorers in Gebbers, Lasisi, and Felix.  Im sure it would be nice to have him step up and do well as its always good to have all hands on deck, especially in the tournament atmosphere.  The more the better!  He is a very good player, but his individual success from here on out is just an added bonus to that team.

etule

Hollins over Gebbers and Conti ! That is crazy! So Defense does not matter its all about points! I would like to see someone justify that pick. I can live with the others! JOKE!

etule

Over Taylor Mounts also! This is more than ridulous it is STUPID! I think mounts had 9 double doubles! Not the kids fault! This is an all league team not an all potential team!

playball

Quote from: etule on February 21, 2012, 06:03:46 PM
Over Taylor Mounts also! This is more than ridulous it is STUPID! I think mounts had 9 double doubles! Not the kids fault! This is an all league team not an all potential team!

Wow, Mounts got passed over completely! Honorable mention is questionable for that kid.  I guess the way you have to look at it is at least one first teamer from each of the playoff teams.  Like I said last year, I wish they would show total votes and the vote breakdown.  Example, how many 1st 2nd 3rd ect votes.

Besides Hollins being a first teamer, Im ok with the way things turned out....  As if I had some sway anyhow! ;)

playball

And for those who aren't sure what we are looking at

http://nwcsports.com/sports/mbkb/2011-12/allnwc

Enjoy

wildcat11

Quote from: playball on February 21, 2012, 06:19:00 PM
Like I said last year, I wish they would show total votes and the vote breakdown.  Example, how many 1st 2nd 3rd ect votes.

Even though it doesn't show point totals the order the players are listed is how they placed when the coaches votes were totaled.  At least, that seems to be how it works with football and within each position group.

I know that Steve (Whitworth's SID) take a look at the boards from time to time.  Maybe he could confirm that.

playball

Quote from: wildcat11 on February 21, 2012, 06:41:36 PM
Quote from: playball on February 21, 2012, 06:19:00 PM
Like I said last year, I wish they would show total votes and the vote breakdown.  Example, how many 1st 2nd 3rd ect votes.

Even though it doesn't show point totals the order the players are listed is how they placed when the coaches votes were totaled.  At least, that seems to be how it works with football and within each position group.

I know that Steve (Whitworth's SID) take a look at the boards from time to time.  Maybe he could confirm that.

You are correct Cat! However, Im trying to see how close it would be separating the last guy on first team and the first guy on second team.  The points would accurately show that.