Top 25 talk

Started by Lurker, March 23, 2005, 09:02:04 AM

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Titan Q

#13005
Bumping this up.  Any schools we are missing on? Have in the wrong tier, etc?
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So now, trying to bucket these teams in Top 25 placement tiers...

(teams are in alphabetical order within tiers)

Tier 1 - The sure things in the preseason; poised to make a deep NCAA run; very few questions; Top 10 candidates.
* Albion (21-5, 12-2)
* Elmhurst (25-5, 11-5)
* Emory (22-5, 11-3)
* Illinois Wesleyan (19-9, 11-5)
* Johns Hopkins (24-4, 16-2)
* Middlebury (21-6, 6-4)
* Randolph-Macon (28-2, 15-1)
* St. Joseph CT (26-3, 11-0)
* St. Thomas (26-3, 19-1)
* Tufts (23-6, 8-2)
* UW-Platteville (23-5, 12-2)
* Yeshiva (29-1, 16-0)


Tier 2 - Safe preseason Top 25 teams; enough question though to not be Tier 1.
* Amherst (18-8, 7-3)
* Brockport (26-3, 17-1)
* Hobart (23-5, 15-3)
* Marietta (21-7, 14-4)
* RPI (24-5, 17-1)
* Swarthmore (28-1, 18-0)
* Wash U (22-5, 11-3)
* WPI (20-8, 10-3)


Tier 3 - The best bets after Tiers 1 and 2; but a lot of questions to be answered.
(pick 5)

* Brandeis (17-8, 9-5)
* Colby (24-4, 8-2)
* PSU-Harrisburg (21-8, 14-2)
* Rochester (16-9, 7-7)
* St. John's (27-2, 19-1)
* Stevens (23-5, 12-2)
* Susquehanna (21-8, 11-3)
* Texas-Dallas (22-7, 14-2)
* UW-La Crosse (21-6, 9-5)
* UW-Oshkosh (20-9, 11-3)
* Virginia Wesleyan (23-5, 13-3)
* Wabash (17-9, 3-5)
* Wheaton IL (15-11, 9-7)



All opinions and ideas are encouraged.

Colby Hoops

Obviously biased, and I know some of the other Nescac posters don't necessarily agree with me, but I think Colby isn't too far outside of this conversation. I'd probably have them somewhere in the 20-35 range. They lose All-American Sam Jefferson and a few other key senior contributors, but they also will have a very good senior backcourt and the last two conference Rookies of the Year. They have four very good players, with some big depth questions -- will rely on a couple of incoming freshman and a few guys who didn't play much last year, so there are certainly reasons to be more pessimistic. Yet, toward the end of the season, Colby beat Amherst and was a miracle 30-footer away from beating Tufts in the Nescac championship with a team that was running primarily through Will King, Matt Hanna and Noah Tyson -- all back next year. 

I'm confident they will be good, but they probably don't have the firepower without Jefferson to be more than a back-end of the Top 25 team. I don't feel particularly strongly that they have to be included, but just another team in the general mix.

SpringSt7

Quote from: Colby Hoops on April 16, 2020, 10:43:12 AM
Obviously biased, and I know some of the other Nescac posters don't necessarily agree with me, but I think Colby isn't too far outside of this conversation. I'd probably have them somewhere in the 20-35 range. They lose All-American Sam Jefferson and a few other key senior contributors, but they also will have a very good senior backcourt and the last two conference Rookies of the Year. They have four very good players, with some big depth questions -- will rely on a couple of incoming freshman and a few guys who didn't play much last year, so there are certainly reasons to be more pessimistic. Yet, toward the end of the season, Colby beat Amherst and was a miracle 30-footer away from beating Tufts in the Nescac championship with a team that was running primarily through Will King, Matt Hanna and Noah Tyson -- all back next year. 

I'm confident they will be good, but they probably don't have the firepower without Jefferson to be more than a back-end of the Top 25 team. I don't feel particularly strongly that they have to be included, but just another team in the general mix.

I wrote a couple weeks ago in here when discussing the NESCAC for next year that outside of the obvious top 3 (Amherst, Middlebury, Tufts), some 4th team would emerge as a top 25 team at some point in year, and named Colby, Wesleyan, and Williams as those potential 3 teams. Seeing how Colby has the least question marks of those three teams, I think it would be fair to slot them in at 4th for now.

Titan Q

Quote from: Colby Hoops on April 16, 2020, 10:43:12 AM
Obviously biased, and I know some of the other Nescac posters don't necessarily agree with me, but I think Colby isn't too far outside of this conversation. I'd probably have them somewhere in the 20-35 range. They lose All-American Sam Jefferson and a few other key senior contributors, but they also will have a very good senior backcourt and the last two conference Rookies of the Year. They have four very good players, with some big depth questions -- will rely on a couple of incoming freshman and a few guys who didn't play much last year, so there are certainly reasons to be more pessimistic. Yet, toward the end of the season, Colby beat Amherst and was a miracle 30-footer away from beating Tufts in the Nescac championship with a team that was running primarily through Will King, Matt Hanna and Noah Tyson -- all back next year. 

I'm confident they will be good, but they probably don't have the firepower without Jefferson to be more than a back-end of the Top 25 team. I don't feel particularly strongly that they have to be included, but just another team in the general mix.

Added to Tier 3 above.

Titan Q

#13009
A look at those 12 "Tier 1" teams...

(All players who scored 4.0 ppg+ in 2019-20.  Roster year listed is from 2019-20.)


Albion (21-5, 12-2 MIAA)
F - Caden Ebeling, 6-7 Jr. 17.7 ppg, 8.3 rpg 1st Team All-MIAA
G - Jamezell Davis, Jr., 5-9 Jr. 16.6 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 3.0 apg 1st Team All-MIAA
F - Quinton Armstrong, 6-5 Jr. 12.4 ppg, 8.0 rpg
G - Cortez Garland, 6-0 So. 10.7 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 2.5 apg MIAA Defensive Player of the Year
G - MJ Barnes, 6-0 So. 7.3 ppg, 1.8 rpg
G - Juwan Perry, 6-2 Jr. 4.5 ppg, 2.5 rpg

Elmhurst (25-5, 11-5 CCIW)
G - Jake Rhode, 5-11 Jr. 20.8 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 4.1 apg 1st Team All-CCIW
F - Derek Dotlich, 6-3 Sr. 15.8 ppg, 3.9 rpg 2nd Team All-CCIW
C - Lavon Thomas, 6-5 Jr. 13.5 ppg, 8.1 rpg, 2.0 apg 2nd Team All-CCIW
F - Jay Militello, 6-4 Jr. 8.9 ppg, 5.9 rpg
G - Dominic Genco, 6-3 Jr. 7.1 ppg, 2.8 rpg
G - Wesley Hooker, 6-2 Fr. 5.3 ppg, 2.9 rpg
G - Nick Perry, 5-11 Jr. 4.5 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 2.5 apg
C - Ebrahim Jobe, 6-9 Jr. 4.5 ppg, 5.1 rpg

Emory (22-5, 11-3 UAA)
G - Romin Williams, 5-9 Jr. 16.3 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 2.1 apg 2nd Team All-UAA
G - Matthew Schner, 6-4 Jr. 15.5 ppg, 7.4 rpg, 2.9 apg 1st Team All-UAA, Co-UAA POY
F - Matt Davet, 6-7 Jr 14.0 ppg, 4.4 rpg
F - Lawrence Rowley, 6-5 Jr. 13.9 ppg, 8.6 rpg 2nd Team All-UAA, UAA Defensive POY
G - Nick Stuck, 6-2 Jr. 9.3 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 5.3 apg 2nd Team All-UAA
F - Mason Johnson, 6-7 So. 7.6 ppg, 4.3 rpg
G - Luke Morrison, 6-4 Jr. 4.3 ppg, 2.0 rpg

Illinois Wesleyan (19-9, 11-5 CCIW)
G - Grant Wolfe, 5-11 Jr.  18.0 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 3.6 apg (only played 7 games due to injury)
G - Peter Lambesis, 6-4 So.  12.3 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 2.5 apg 2nd Team All-CCIW
G - Keondre Schumacher, 5-11 So.  12.0 ppg, 1.9 apg
F - Doug Wallen, 6-5 Jr.  11.2 ppg, 5.6 rpg
F - Matt Leritz, 6-7 So.  10.9 ppg, 5.5 rpg  1st Team All-CCIW
G - Luke Yoder, 6-0 Fr.  10.4 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 2.3 apg  CCIW Freshman of the Year
F - Charlie Bair, 6-7 Jr.  9.0 ppg, 8.3 rpg
G - Cory Noe, 6-2 So.  8.8 ppg, 2.3 rpg

Johns Hopkins (24-4, 16-2 Centennial)
G - Conner Delaney, 6-0 Jr. 17.5 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 4.9 apg 1st Team All-CC, CC POY
F - Tom Quarry, 6-6 So. 13.4 ppg, 4.5 rpg 2nd Team All-CC
G - Joey Kern, 6-1 Jr. 8.7 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 2.1 apg
G - Braeden Johnson, 6-6 So. 8.3 ppg, 3.2 rpg
F - Harry O'Neill, 6-6 Sr. 8.2 ppg, 4.7 rpg
G - Ethan Bartlett, 6-3 So. 8.0 ppg, 5.4 rpg
F - Chid Nnake, 6-6 So. 4.8 ppg, 4.3 rpg
G - Carson James, 6-2 Fr. 4.8 ppg, 2.1 rpg

Middlebury (21-6, 6-4 NESCAC)
G - Jack Farrell, 6-1 Jr. 16.8 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 3.4 apg 2nd Team All-NESCAC
G - Max Bosco, 6-0 Jr. 14.6 ppg, 2.9 rpg
G - Tommy Eastman, 6-4 Jr. 13.6 ppg, 6.7 rpg 2nd Team All-NESCAC
F - Matt Folger, 6-8 Sr. 11.7 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 2.0 apg
G - Griffin Kornaker, 6-1 Jr. 9.3 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 4.5 apg
F - Ryan Cahill, 6-7 Jr. 6.7 ppg, 3.6 rpg
G - Perry DeLorenzo, 6-4 Sr. 5.3 ppg, 1.5 rpg

Randolph-Macon (28-2, 15-1 ODAC)
G - Buzz Anthony, 5-11 Jr. 16.4 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 6.2 apg 1st Team All-ODAC, ODAC POY
F - Miles Mallory, 6-5 Fr. 12.3 ppg, 7.8 rpg ODAC Rookie of the Year
G - Josh Talbert, 6-2 Fr. 10.7 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 2.1 apg
F - Ian Robertson, 6-7 So. 8.5 ppg, 3.9 rpg
G - Corey Bays, 6-3 Sr. 7.7 ppg, 2.4 rpg
G - Terry Woods, 5-11 Jr. 7.3 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 2.6 apg
F - David Funderburg, 6-7 Jr. 5.6 ppg, 3.5 rpg
G - Korey Turner, 6-0 Sr. 4.2 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 2.7 apg

St. Joseph CT (26-3, 11-0 GNAC)
G - Delshawn Jackson Jr., 5-10 So. 21.5 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 2.7 apg 1st Team All-GNAC
F - Jordan Powell, 6-6 Jr. 15.3 ppg, 7.4 rpg 2nd Team All-GNAC
G - Jaecee Martin, 5-10 So. 14.9 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 7.5 apg 1st Team All-GNAC, Defensive POY
G - Taelon Martin, 6-5 Fr. 10.6 ppg, 3.9 rpg GNAC Rookie of the Year
G - Ryan O'Neill, 6-5 So. 10.0 ppg, 4.9 rpg
F - Tyree Mitchell, 6-4 So. 5.8 ppg, 1.9 rpg
F - Jake Sullivan, 6-5 So. 4.3 ppg, 3.9 rpg

St. Thomas (26-3, 19-1 MIAA)
G - Anders Nelson, 6-0 So. 15.9 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 2.4 apg 1st Team All-MIAC
F - Elijah Hannah, 6-3 Sr. 11.3 ppg, 3.8 rpg 3rd Team All-MIAC, Sixth Man of the Year
F - Tommy Anderson, 6-4 Sr. 10.7 ppg, 2.6 rpg 3rd Team All-MIAC

G - Riley Miller, 6-2 So. 8.5 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 2.7 apg 2nd Team All-MIAC
G - Burt Hedstrom, 6-4 Jr. 8.0 ppg, 4.7 rpg
G - Ryan Lindberg, 6-3 Jr. 6.8 ppg, 2.6 rpg HM All-MIAC, All Defensive Team
G - Zach Theisen, 6-0 So. 5.3 ppg, 1.9 rpg
G - Will Engels, 6-5 Fr. 4.6 ppg, 1.7 rpg
G - Kevin Cunningham, 6-0 So. 4.1 ppg, 1.8 rpg

Tufts (23-6, 8-2 NESCAC)
C - Luke Rogers, 6-8 Jr. 16.6 ppg, 11.9 rpg 1st Team All-NESCAC, NESCAC POY
G - Eric Savage, 6-3 Sr. 15.8 ppg, 6.9 ppg, 3.4 apg 2nd Team All-NESCAC
G - Brennan Morris, 6-6 Jr. 12.0 ppg, 3.8 rpg
G - Tyler Aronson, 6-2 So. 10.6 ppg, 3.0 ppg, 2.1 apg
G - Dylan Thoerner, 6-6 Fr. 7.5 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 1.1 apg
G - Carson Cohen, 6-3 So. 7.2 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 3.5 apg
G - Will Brady, 6-1 Jr. 4.4 ppg, 2.1 rpg

UW-Platteville (23-5, 12-2 WIAC)
G - Carter Voelker, 6-3 Sr. 15.5 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 3.8 apg All-WIAC, Co-WIAC POY
G - Quentin Shields, 5-9 Jr. 14.9 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 2.8 apg All-WIAC, All Defensive Team
F - Kyle Tuma, 6-5 So. 10.8 ppg, 5.9 rpg HM All-WIAC
F - Justin Stovall, 6-7 Jr. 10.2 ppg, 6.2 rpg HM All-WIAC, All Defensive Team
G - Blake McCann, 6-3 So. 8.1 ppg, 1.4 rpg
G - Drew Gunnink, 6-0 Jr. 7.0 ppg, 2.3 rpg
F - Justin Fox, 6-4 Jr. 5.0 ppg, 4.5 rpg

Yeshiva (29-1, 16-0 Skyline)
G - Ryan Turell, 6-7 So. 23.9 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 3.4 apg 1st Team All-Skyline, Skyline POY
G - Simcha Halpert, 6-3 Sr. 16.7 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 2.1 apg 2nd Team All-Skyline
F - Gabriel Leifer, 6-5 Sr. 16.0 ppg, 11.5 rpg, 6.6 apg 1st Team All-Skyline
G - Ofek Reef, 6-1 Fr. 10.7 ppg, 2.6 rpg Skyline Rookie of the Year
G - Eitan Halpert, 5-11 Jr. 6.2 ppg, 2.0 apg
G - Bar Alluf, 6-4 Sr. 5.4 ppg, 2.2 rpg
F - Caleb Milobsky, 6-6 Jr. 5.4 ppg, 3.6 rpg
F - Daniel Katz, 6-4 Sr. 4.8 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 2.2 apg

Titan Q

Would love to hear some takes on the order of those teams from #1 to #12 from a standpoint of the 2020-21 Preseason Top 25.

Smitty Oom

I might go more in depth later this weekend, but personally I think I would go to the South for the first two spots. #1 Emory and #2 RMC.

Titan Q

Quote from: Smitty Oom on April 16, 2020, 03:29:20 PM
I might go more in depth later this weekend, but personally I think I would go to the South for the first two spots. #1 Emory and #2 RMC.

I think Emory would be my #1.

Greek Tragedy

I know St. Thomas is getting booted from the MIAC next year, but I don't think they're playing in the MIAA this year.  ??? :P ::) ;D :o ;)
Pointers
Breed of a Champion
2004, 2005, 2010 and 2015 National Champions

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TGHIJGSTO!!!

Greek Tragedy

Quote from: Titan Q on April 16, 2020, 03:31:39 PM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on April 16, 2020, 03:29:20 PM
I might go more in depth later this weekend, but personally I think I would go to the South for the first two spots. #1 Emory and #2 RMC.

I think Emory would be my #1.

I think Ryan is putting Yeshiva #1.  ;D
Pointers
Breed of a Champion
2004, 2005, 2010 and 2015 National Champions

Fantasy Leagues Commissioner

TGHIJGSTO!!!

TheOsprey

Quote from: Greek Tragedy on April 16, 2020, 04:46:17 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on April 16, 2020, 03:31:39 PM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on April 16, 2020, 03:29:20 PM
I might go more in depth later this weekend, but personally I think I would go to the South for the first two spots. #1 Emory and #2 RMC.

I think Emory would be my #1.

I think Ryan is putting Yeshiva #1.  ;D
They'll probably end up there eventually I believe.


Greek Tragedy

Quote from: TheOsprey on April 16, 2020, 06:06:12 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on April 16, 2020, 04:46:17 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on April 16, 2020, 03:31:39 PM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on April 16, 2020, 03:29:20 PM
I might go more in depth later this weekend, but personally I think I would go to the South for the first two spots. #1 Emory and #2 RMC.

I think Emory would be my #1.

I think Ryan is putting Yeshiva #1.  ;D
They'll probably end up there eventually I believe.

I think it depends on their schedule...or how hard they try to schedule better opponents.  ::)
Pointers
Breed of a Champion
2004, 2005, 2010 and 2015 National Champions

Fantasy Leagues Commissioner

TGHIJGSTO!!!

Titan Q

Quote from: Greek Tragedy on April 16, 2020, 09:25:04 PM
I think it depends on their schedule...or how hard they try to schedule better opponents.  ::)

https://yumacs.com/sports/mens-basketball/schedule/2020-21

Lycoming tourney: Lycoming, Neumann, Penn St Schuylkill.

nyhoopstalk

#13018
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on April 16, 2020, 04:46:17 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on April 16, 2020, 03:31:39 PM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on April 16, 2020, 03:29:20 PM
I might go more in depth later this weekend, but personally I think I would go to the South for the first two spots. #1 Emory and #2 RMC.

I think Emory would be my #1.

I think Ryan is putting Yeshiva #1.  ;D

Losing Halpert and Katz is going to be more difficult for Yeshiva than most may realize. The amount of big shots that Halpert made and his ability to space the floor is something they may not be able to replace with what they have returning. Katz was the ultimate glue guy in the paint.

Titan Q

#13019
Quote from: nyhoopstalk on April 17, 2020, 08:54:51 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on April 16, 2020, 04:46:17 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on April 16, 2020, 03:31:39 PM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on April 16, 2020, 03:29:20 PM
I might go more in depth later this weekend, but personally I think I would go to the South for the first two spots. #1 Emory and #2 RMC.

I think Emory would be my #1.

I think Ryan is putting Yeshiva #1.  ;D

Losing Halpert and Katz is going to be more difficult for Yeshiva than most may realize. The amount of big shots that Halpert made and his ability to space the floor is something they may not be able to replace with what they have returning. Katz was the ultimate glue guy in the paint.

I do think Yeshiva loses more than some here are acknowledging.

That said, this starting lineup should be great:
G - Eitan Halpert, 5-11 Jr. 6.2 ppg, 2.0 apg
G - Ofek Reef, 6-1 Fr. 10.7 ppg, 2.6 rpg Skyline Rookie of the Year
G - Ryan Turell, 6-7 So. 23.9 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 3.4 apg 1st Team All-Skyline, Skyline POY
F - Gabriel Leifer, 6-5 Sr. 16.0 ppg, 11.5 rpg, 6.6 apg 1st Team All-Skyline
F - Caleb Milobsky, 6-6 Jr. 5.4 ppg, 3.6 rpg

I continue to struggle to some degree with preseason placement of Yeshiva due to their lack of "signature wins" in 2019-20. More than any team in the Sweet 16, I was really looking forward to seeing how the rest of the NCAA tournament played out for the Macs to better understand just how good they are.

Quote from: Titan Q on April 12, 2020, 09:54:15 AM
#8 Yeshiva
#58 WPI
#66 Williams
#153 New Jersey City
#156 PSU-Harrisburg

I just do not have a very good feel for what Yeshiva's record would have been last year with, say, Illinois Wesleyan or UW-Oshkosh's schedule.

They will definitely be in my top 8.  I just don't know if they should be closer to #1 or #8.