FB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

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WW

Quote from: Andy W on May 28, 2019, 02:52:22 PM
Quote from: badgerwarhawk on May 28, 2019, 02:03:05 PM
When has Parkside indicated any interest in 1. starting a football program and 2. dropping to D3? 

Both Hamline and Gustavus Adolphus, private schools, are members of the WIAC Womens Gymnastics Conference so I doubt that would be much of an issue.

I think being charter members in an isolated sport is different than a full blown membership. I think the support is there, but there may be (emphasis on may be) some concern since with a private school as they do not have to adhere to the strict interpretations of Title IX requirements the rest of the state public schools have to adhere to. I don't know the in's and out's of Title IX requirements, so I don't know what that would mean, just that it was shared with me. As far as St. Thomas and the competitive balance they would bring to the conference, after some research and loosely based opinion forming here is what I came up with.

MEN"S SPORTS

FOOTBALL - Very Good program that would strengthen an already strong D3 conference. Would definitely be a more difficult road from them to make the post season than the MIAC. Sure Bethel squeezed them out this year, but is it repeatable? The WIAC would be one tough gauntlet of a season to go through, and I think would most likely end up with a 2nd place 2 loss teams. Anyone with more knowledge than me on the playoff selection process, but how many 2 loss teams get an at large bid? Adding St. Thomas would alleviate the current need for WIAC teams to find 3 OOC teams to schedule.

CROSS COUNTRY - Pretty Good add to the conference. Finished 30th out of 32 teams at Nationals with WIAC teams EC & Stout finishing ahead of them.

BASKETBALL - Very Strong Add, Beat SP, RF & LaCrosse this past season. Made it to D3 Sweet 16.

HOCKEY - Biggest benefit to WIAC here than any other. Gives the WIAC 6 teams and an automatic bid to the conference champion, which doesn't necessarily happen now. Could pave the road for WIAC to get 2 bids instead of just 1 for post season play.

BASEBALL - Fair add, Nothing really gained or lost here.

TRACK & FIELD - Nothing really added here. Recently finished 31st at Nationals, 1 point ahead of Stout. 5 other WIAC teams finished ahead of them including my Blugolds who took home the National Champioinship.

TENNIS - WIAC currently has 3 teams I believe playing as charter members with a conference out East. Not sure adding a forth team to the WIAC does anything here.

SWIMMING seems to be an ok add, and GOLF I did not loo at.

WOMEN'S SPORTS

I feel we gain more here from a competition standpoint.

CROSS COUNTRY - OK Add, no real added benefit or loss.

VOLLEYBALL - good add, split with a handful of WIAC teams during the regular season and lost to UWEC in the Midwest Regionals.

SOCCER - Good Add, Beat 3 WIAC teams during regular season before losing rematch via shoot out to UWL in the NCAA Second Round

BASKETBALL - Great Add, advanced to D3 semifinals

HOCKEY - Great Add, Played in NCAA D3 Frozen Four

SOFTBALL - Very Good Add, Defeated UWEC in Regional to advance to NCAA D3 National Tournament, #1 seed, but lost first 2 games.

SWIMMING & TRACK both seem to be OK. No real upgrade or downgrade.

Did not look at Tennis or Golf.

Feel free to add your thoughts.

Platteville made it at 8-2 in 2016, along with Whitewater and Oshkosh, but some stars aligned for that to happen. There are only five "at-large" bids out there. It's highly unusual that WIAC get two of them, in addition to its own champion. Last season, WIAC received no at-large bids. Adding a quality Tommy football program would only make it more difficult to get to the tournament out of the WIAC. I'd call that a net negative.

Adding Tommy baseball would certainly be a positive, if for any other reason than we don't have to invite Finlandia back to ensure a WIAC AQ.

As for the rest, there's an added travel burden that might make this more of a net negative than any effect on competitive balance. I'd like the whole idea a little better if UST were in the existing WIAC footprint.


crufootball

Quote from: WW on May 28, 2019, 03:22:46 PM
Quote from: Andy W on May 28, 2019, 02:52:22 PM
Quote from: badgerwarhawk on May 28, 2019, 02:03:05 PM
When has Parkside indicated any interest in 1. starting a football program and 2. dropping to D3? 

Both Hamline and Gustavus Adolphus, private schools, are members of the WIAC Womens Gymnastics Conference so I doubt that would be much of an issue.

I think being charter members in an isolated sport is different than a full blown membership. I think the support is there, but there may be (emphasis on may be) some concern since with a private school as they do not have to adhere to the strict interpretations of Title IX requirements the rest of the state public schools have to adhere to. I don't know the in's and out's of Title IX requirements, so I don't know what that would mean, just that it was shared with me. As far as St. Thomas and the competitive balance they would bring to the conference, after some research and loosely based opinion forming here is what I came up with.

MEN"S SPORTS

FOOTBALL - Very Good program that would strengthen an already strong D3 conference. Would definitely be a more difficult road from them to make the post season than the MIAC. Sure Bethel squeezed them out this year, but is it repeatable? The WIAC would be one tough gauntlet of a season to go through, and I think would most likely end up with a 2nd place 2 loss teams. Anyone with more knowledge than me on the playoff selection process, but how many 2 loss teams get an at large bid? Adding St. Thomas would alleviate the current need for WIAC teams to find 3 OOC teams to schedule.

CROSS COUNTRY - Pretty Good add to the conference. Finished 30th out of 32 teams at Nationals with WIAC teams EC & Stout finishing ahead of them.

BASKETBALL - Very Strong Add, Beat SP, RF & LaCrosse this past season. Made it to D3 Sweet 16.

HOCKEY - Biggest benefit to WIAC here than any other. Gives the WIAC 6 teams and an automatic bid to the conference champion, which doesn't necessarily happen now. Could pave the road for WIAC to get 2 bids instead of just 1 for post season play.

BASEBALL - Fair add, Nothing really gained or lost here.

TRACK & FIELD - Nothing really added here. Recently finished 31st at Nationals, 1 point ahead of Stout. 5 other WIAC teams finished ahead of them including my Blugolds who took home the National Champioinship.

TENNIS - WIAC currently has 3 teams I believe playing as charter members with a conference out East. Not sure adding a forth team to the WIAC does anything here.

SWIMMING seems to be an ok add, and GOLF I did not loo at.

WOMEN'S SPORTS

I feel we gain more here from a competition standpoint.

CROSS COUNTRY - OK Add, no real added benefit or loss.

VOLLEYBALL - good add, split with a handful of WIAC teams during the regular season and lost to UWEC in the Midwest Regionals.

SOCCER - Good Add, Beat 3 WIAC teams during regular season before losing rematch via shoot out to UWL in the NCAA Second Round

BASKETBALL - Great Add, advanced to D3 semifinals

HOCKEY - Great Add, Played in NCAA D3 Frozen Four

SOFTBALL - Very Good Add, Defeated UWEC in Regional to advance to NCAA D3 National Tournament, #1 seed, but lost first 2 games.

SWIMMING & TRACK both seem to be OK. No real upgrade or downgrade.

Did not look at Tennis or Golf.

Feel free to add your thoughts.

Platteville made it at 8-2 in 2016, along with Whitewater and Oshkosh, but some stars aligned for that to happen. There are only five "at-large" bids out there. It's highly unusual that WIAC get two of them, in addition to its own champion. Last season, WIAC received no at-large bids. Adding a quality Tommy football program would only make it more difficult to get to the tournament out of the WIAC. I'd call that a net negative.

Adding Tommy baseball would certainly be a positive, if for any other reason than we don't have to invite Finlandia back to ensure a WIAC AQ.

As for the rest, there's an added travel burden that might make this more of a net negative than any effect on competitive balance. I'd like the whole idea a little better if UST were in the existing WIAC footprint.

What would you consider the WIAC footprint?

WW

Quote from: crufootball on May 28, 2019, 03:33:52 PM
Quote from: WW on May 28, 2019, 03:22:46 PM
Quote from: Andy W on May 28, 2019, 02:52:22 PM
Quote from: badgerwarhawk on May 28, 2019, 02:03:05 PM
When has Parkside indicated any interest in 1. starting a football program and 2. dropping to D3? 

Both Hamline and Gustavus Adolphus, private schools, are members of the WIAC Womens Gymnastics Conference so I doubt that would be much of an issue.

I think being charter members in an isolated sport is different than a full blown membership. I think the support is there, but there may be (emphasis on may be) some concern since with a private school as they do not have to adhere to the strict interpretations of Title IX requirements the rest of the state public schools have to adhere to. I don't know the in's and out's of Title IX requirements, so I don't know what that would mean, just that it was shared with me. As far as St. Thomas and the competitive balance they would bring to the conference, after some research and loosely based opinion forming here is what I came up with.

MEN"S SPORTS

FOOTBALL - Very Good program that would strengthen an already strong D3 conference. Would definitely be a more difficult road from them to make the post season than the MIAC. Sure Bethel squeezed them out this year, but is it repeatable? The WIAC would be one tough gauntlet of a season to go through, and I think would most likely end up with a 2nd place 2 loss teams. Anyone with more knowledge than me on the playoff selection process, but how many 2 loss teams get an at large bid? Adding St. Thomas would alleviate the current need for WIAC teams to find 3 OOC teams to schedule.

CROSS COUNTRY - Pretty Good add to the conference. Finished 30th out of 32 teams at Nationals with WIAC teams EC & Stout finishing ahead of them.

BASKETBALL - Very Strong Add, Beat SP, RF & LaCrosse this past season. Made it to D3 Sweet 16.

HOCKEY - Biggest benefit to WIAC here than any other. Gives the WIAC 6 teams and an automatic bid to the conference champion, which doesn't necessarily happen now. Could pave the road for WIAC to get 2 bids instead of just 1 for post season play.

BASEBALL - Fair add, Nothing really gained or lost here.

TRACK & FIELD - Nothing really added here. Recently finished 31st at Nationals, 1 point ahead of Stout. 5 other WIAC teams finished ahead of them including my Blugolds who took home the National Champioinship.

TENNIS - WIAC currently has 3 teams I believe playing as charter members with a conference out East. Not sure adding a forth team to the WIAC does anything here.

SWIMMING seems to be an ok add, and GOLF I did not loo at.

WOMEN'S SPORTS

I feel we gain more here from a competition standpoint.

CROSS COUNTRY - OK Add, no real added benefit or loss.

VOLLEYBALL - good add, split with a handful of WIAC teams during the regular season and lost to UWEC in the Midwest Regionals.

SOCCER - Good Add, Beat 3 WIAC teams during regular season before losing rematch via shoot out to UWL in the NCAA Second Round

BASKETBALL - Great Add, advanced to D3 semifinals

HOCKEY - Great Add, Played in NCAA D3 Frozen Four

SOFTBALL - Very Good Add, Defeated UWEC in Regional to advance to NCAA D3 National Tournament, #1 seed, but lost first 2 games.

SWIMMING & TRACK both seem to be OK. No real upgrade or downgrade.

Did not look at Tennis or Golf.

Feel free to add your thoughts.

Platteville made it at 8-2 in 2016, along with Whitewater and Oshkosh, but some stars aligned for that to happen. There are only five "at-large" bids out there. It's highly unusual that WIAC get two of them, in addition to its own champion. Last season, WIAC received no at-large bids. Adding a quality Tommy football program would only make it more difficult to get to the tournament out of the WIAC. I'd call that a net negative.

Adding Tommy baseball would certainly be a positive, if for any other reason than we don't have to invite Finlandia back to ensure a WIAC AQ.

As for the rest, there's an added travel burden that might make this more of a net negative than any effect on competitive balance. I'd like the whole idea a little better if UST were in the existing WIAC footprint.

What would you consider the WIAC footprint?

Within existing outermost points. South and east of River Falls, north of Platteville, west of Oshkosh.

crufootball

Quote from: WW on May 28, 2019, 03:47:55 PM
Quote from: crufootball on May 28, 2019, 03:33:52 PM
Quote from: WW on May 28, 2019, 03:22:46 PM
Quote from: Andy W on May 28, 2019, 02:52:22 PM
Quote from: badgerwarhawk on May 28, 2019, 02:03:05 PM
When has Parkside indicated any interest in 1. starting a football program and 2. dropping to D3? 

Both Hamline and Gustavus Adolphus, private schools, are members of the WIAC Womens Gymnastics Conference so I doubt that would be much of an issue.

I think being charter members in an isolated sport is different than a full blown membership. I think the support is there, but there may be (emphasis on may be) some concern since with a private school as they do not have to adhere to the strict interpretations of Title IX requirements the rest of the state public schools have to adhere to. I don't know the in's and out's of Title IX requirements, so I don't know what that would mean, just that it was shared with me. As far as St. Thomas and the competitive balance they would bring to the conference, after some research and loosely based opinion forming here is what I came up with.

MEN"S SPORTS

FOOTBALL - Very Good program that would strengthen an already strong D3 conference. Would definitely be a more difficult road from them to make the post season than the MIAC. Sure Bethel squeezed them out this year, but is it repeatable? The WIAC would be one tough gauntlet of a season to go through, and I think would most likely end up with a 2nd place 2 loss teams. Anyone with more knowledge than me on the playoff selection process, but how many 2 loss teams get an at large bid? Adding St. Thomas would alleviate the current need for WIAC teams to find 3 OOC teams to schedule.

CROSS COUNTRY - Pretty Good add to the conference. Finished 30th out of 32 teams at Nationals with WIAC teams EC & Stout finishing ahead of them.

BASKETBALL - Very Strong Add, Beat SP, RF & LaCrosse this past season. Made it to D3 Sweet 16.

HOCKEY - Biggest benefit to WIAC here than any other. Gives the WIAC 6 teams and an automatic bid to the conference champion, which doesn't necessarily happen now. Could pave the road for WIAC to get 2 bids instead of just 1 for post season play.

BASEBALL - Fair add, Nothing really gained or lost here.

TRACK & FIELD - Nothing really added here. Recently finished 31st at Nationals, 1 point ahead of Stout. 5 other WIAC teams finished ahead of them including my Blugolds who took home the National Champioinship.

TENNIS - WIAC currently has 3 teams I believe playing as charter members with a conference out East. Not sure adding a forth team to the WIAC does anything here.

SWIMMING seems to be an ok add, and GOLF I did not loo at.

WOMEN'S SPORTS

I feel we gain more here from a competition standpoint.

CROSS COUNTRY - OK Add, no real added benefit or loss.

VOLLEYBALL - good add, split with a handful of WIAC teams during the regular season and lost to UWEC in the Midwest Regionals.

SOCCER - Good Add, Beat 3 WIAC teams during regular season before losing rematch via shoot out to UWL in the NCAA Second Round

BASKETBALL - Great Add, advanced to D3 semifinals

HOCKEY - Great Add, Played in NCAA D3 Frozen Four

SOFTBALL - Very Good Add, Defeated UWEC in Regional to advance to NCAA D3 National Tournament, #1 seed, but lost first 2 games.

SWIMMING & TRACK both seem to be OK. No real upgrade or downgrade.

Did not look at Tennis or Golf.

Feel free to add your thoughts.

Platteville made it at 8-2 in 2016, along with Whitewater and Oshkosh, but some stars aligned for that to happen. There are only five "at-large" bids out there. It's highly unusual that WIAC get two of them, in addition to its own champion. Last season, WIAC received no at-large bids. Adding a quality Tommy football program would only make it more difficult to get to the tournament out of the WIAC. I'd call that a net negative.

Adding Tommy baseball would certainly be a positive, if for any other reason than we don't have to invite Finlandia back to ensure a WIAC AQ.

As for the rest, there's an added travel burden that might make this more of a net negative than any effect on competitive balance. I'd like the whole idea a little better if UST were in the existing WIAC footprint.

What would you consider the WIAC footprint?

Within existing outermost points. South and east of River Falls, north of Platteville, west of Oshkosh.

Pardon my lack of Wisconsin geography knowledge but what other D3 schools do WIAC members usually fill their non conference schedule with? I wouldn't think River Falls, Stout, and Eau Claire could find much closer. I realize I may be looking at this the wrong way since as a UMHB/ASC fan our closest games are usually at least 2 hours away.

'95 Blugold

Quote from: crufootball on May 28, 2019, 04:09:36 PM
Quote from: WW on May 28, 2019, 03:47:55 PM
Quote from: crufootball on May 28, 2019, 03:33:52 PM
Quote from: WW on May 28, 2019, 03:22:46 PM
Quote from: Andy W on May 28, 2019, 02:52:22 PM
Quote from: badgerwarhawk on May 28, 2019, 02:03:05 PM
When has Parkside indicated any interest in 1. starting a football program and 2. dropping to D3? 

Both Hamline and Gustavus Adolphus, private schools, are members of the WIAC Womens Gymnastics Conference so I doubt that would be much of an issue.

I think being charter members in an isolated sport is different than a full blown membership. I think the support is there, but there may be (emphasis on may be) some concern since with a private school as they do not have to adhere to the strict interpretations of Title IX requirements the rest of the state public schools have to adhere to. I don't know the in's and out's of Title IX requirements, so I don't know what that would mean, just that it was shared with me. As far as St. Thomas and the competitive balance they would bring to the conference, after some research and loosely based opinion forming here is what I came up with.

MEN"S SPORTS

FOOTBALL - Very Good program that would strengthen an already strong D3 conference. Would definitely be a more difficult road from them to make the post season than the MIAC. Sure Bethel squeezed them out this year, but is it repeatable? The WIAC would be one tough gauntlet of a season to go through, and I think would most likely end up with a 2nd place 2 loss teams. Anyone with more knowledge than me on the playoff selection process, but how many 2 loss teams get an at large bid? Adding St. Thomas would alleviate the current need for WIAC teams to find 3 OOC teams to schedule.

CROSS COUNTRY - Pretty Good add to the conference. Finished 30th out of 32 teams at Nationals with WIAC teams EC & Stout finishing ahead of them.

BASKETBALL - Very Strong Add, Beat SP, RF & LaCrosse this past season. Made it to D3 Sweet 16.

HOCKEY - Biggest benefit to WIAC here than any other. Gives the WIAC 6 teams and an automatic bid to the conference champion, which doesn't necessarily happen now. Could pave the road for WIAC to get 2 bids instead of just 1 for post season play.

BASEBALL - Fair add, Nothing really gained or lost here.

TRACK & FIELD - Nothing really added here. Recently finished 31st at Nationals, 1 point ahead of Stout. 5 other WIAC teams finished ahead of them including my Blugolds who took home the National Champioinship.

TENNIS - WIAC currently has 3 teams I believe playing as charter members with a conference out East. Not sure adding a forth team to the WIAC does anything here.

SWIMMING seems to be an ok add, and GOLF I did not loo at.

WOMEN'S SPORTS

I feel we gain more here from a competition standpoint.

CROSS COUNTRY - OK Add, no real added benefit or loss.

VOLLEYBALL - good add, split with a handful of WIAC teams during the regular season and lost to UWEC in the Midwest Regionals.

SOCCER - Good Add, Beat 3 WIAC teams during regular season before losing rematch via shoot out to UWL in the NCAA Second Round

BASKETBALL - Great Add, advanced to D3 semifinals

HOCKEY - Great Add, Played in NCAA D3 Frozen Four

SOFTBALL - Very Good Add, Defeated UWEC in Regional to advance to NCAA D3 National Tournament, #1 seed, but lost first 2 games.

SWIMMING & TRACK both seem to be OK. No real upgrade or downgrade.

Did not look at Tennis or Golf.

Feel free to add your thoughts.

Platteville made it at 8-2 in 2016, along with Whitewater and Oshkosh, but some stars aligned for that to happen. There are only five "at-large" bids out there. It's highly unusual that WIAC get two of them, in addition to its own champion. Last season, WIAC received no at-large bids. Adding a quality Tommy football program would only make it more difficult to get to the tournament out of the WIAC. I'd call that a net negative.

Adding Tommy baseball would certainly be a positive, if for any other reason than we don't have to invite Finlandia back to ensure a WIAC AQ.

As for the rest, there's an added travel burden that might make this more of a net negative than any effect on competitive balance. I'd like the whole idea a little better if UST were in the existing WIAC footprint.

What would you consider the WIAC footprint?

Within existing outermost points. South and east of River Falls, north of Platteville, west of Oshkosh.

Pardon my lack of Wisconsin geography knowledge but what other D3 schools do WIAC members usually fill their non conference schedule with? I wouldn't think River Falls, Stout, and Eau Claire could find much closer. I realize I may be looking at this the wrong way since as a UMHB/ASC fan our closest games are usually at least 2 hours away.

Eau Claire & St. Thomas have been a regular now since 2012. Last year and this up coming we are finishing up home & homes against Loras (IA) and St. Norbert (WI-private). We have in the past also played Bethel, St. John's or Concordia Moorhead in the MIAC in addition to St. Thomas. We've had Wheaton on the schedule in recent years, Wisconsin Lutheran, River Falls x2. And a couple years back we went out to Oregon and played George Fox.

WW

Quote from: crufootball on May 28, 2019, 04:09:36 PM
Quote from: WW on May 28, 2019, 03:47:55 PM
Quote from: crufootball on May 28, 2019, 03:33:52 PM
Quote from: WW on May 28, 2019, 03:22:46 PM
Quote from: Andy W on May 28, 2019, 02:52:22 PM
Quote from: badgerwarhawk on May 28, 2019, 02:03:05 PM

Pardon my lack of Wisconsin geography knowledge but what other D3 schools do WIAC members usually fill their non conference schedule with? I wouldn't think River Falls, Stout, and Eau Claire could find much closer. I realize I may be looking at this the wrong way since as a UMHB/ASC fan our closest games are usually at least 2 hours away.

The western members wouldn't have a problem with that geography at all, I'm sure. Whitewater and Oshkosh would be looking at 4-5 hour trips, however.

Pat Coleman

If there were a chance to get to 10 teams there is no way they would go divisions. Ten teams is where you want to be as a conference in football these days for scheduling purposes.
Publisher. Questions? Check our FAQ for D3f, D3h.
Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

crufootball

Quote from: WW on May 28, 2019, 04:49:27 PM
Quote from: crufootball on May 28, 2019, 04:09:36 PM
Quote from: WW on May 28, 2019, 03:47:55 PM
Quote from: crufootball on May 28, 2019, 03:33:52 PM
Quote from: WW on May 28, 2019, 03:22:46 PM
Quote from: Andy W on May 28, 2019, 02:52:22 PM
Quote from: badgerwarhawk on May 28, 2019, 02:03:05 PM

Pardon my lack of Wisconsin geography knowledge but what other D3 schools do WIAC members usually fill their non conference schedule with? I wouldn't think River Falls, Stout, and Eau Claire could find much closer. I realize I may be looking at this the wrong way since as a UMHB/ASC fan our closest games are usually at least 2 hours away.

The western members wouldn't have a problem with that geography at all, I'm sure. Whitewater and Oshkosh would be looking at 4-5 hour trips, however.

True it would be 4 to 5 for both of them but that seems to be the same or less than some of their current non conference games.

Gregory Sager

Quote from: Andy W on May 28, 2019, 02:52:22 PM
BASEBALL - Fair add, Nothing really gained or lost here.

Disagree. St. Thomas would be a great add to the WIAC for baseball. For one thing, the Tommies have been a power in the sport; they've won two national championships and have been to six D3 College World Series, all within the past two decades, and they've been to the second-most D3 tourneys since 1995 of any school in the nation. For another, they would provide insurance for the WIAC in a sport that's been shaky within the league in terms of membership. UWEC dropped the sport after the 1995 season -- and the Blugolds had a really solid program at the time -- and UWRF dropped it after the 2002 season. That left seven teams, so when UW-Superior dropped out of the league the WIAC was understrength at only six teams (remember, it takes seven to get an AQ for the D3 tourney) for a couple of years until the league was able to bring in Illinois Tech as an associate member for baseball in order to get back up to the seven-team minimum. IIT left after a year as it became a full member of the NACC, but Finlandia was able to step in and become that all-important seventh member this season. But who knows if Finlandia will be able to field a baseball team forever, or if budget cuts or Title IX might force yet another WIAC school to drop the sport? Plus, eight teams is better than seven for scheduling purposes.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

'95 Blugold

Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 28, 2019, 06:16:19 PM
Quote from: Andy W on May 28, 2019, 02:52:22 PM
BASEBALL - Fair add, Nothing really gained or lost here.

Disagree. St. Thomas would be a great add to the WIAC for baseball. For one thing, the Tommies have been a power in the sport; they've won two national championships and have been to six D3 College World Series, all within the past two decades, and they've been to the second-most D3 tourneys since 1995 of any school in the nation. For another, they would provide insurance for the WIAC in a sport that's been shaky within the league in terms of membership. UWEC dropped the sport after the 1995 season -- and the Blugolds had a really solid program at the time -- and UWRF dropped it after the 2002 season. That left seven teams, so when UW-Superior dropped out of the league the WIAC was understrength at only six teams (remember, it takes seven to get an AQ for the D3 tourney) for a couple of years until the league was able to bring in Illinois Tech as an associate member for baseball in order to get back up to the seven-team minimum. IIT left after a year as it became a full member of the NACC, but Finlandia was able to step in and become that all-important seventh member this season. But who knows if Finlandia will be able to field a baseball team forever, or if budget cuts or Title IX might force yet another WIAC school to drop the sport? Plus, eight teams is better than seven for scheduling purposes.

Thanks for the St. Thomas baseball history lesson. I admit I was just going this past year's team, so they must of been down this season. Besides the conference stability, seems like they would indeed be a great add. As a '95 Blugold grad, I remember hearing the announcement of baseball getting the ax. I worked with the '95 team as a student athletic trainer and remember us being pretty solid.

emma17

Assuming the go-forward WIAC football looks like the past WIAC, who could blame UWP for opposing an invite to St. Thomas?
The Pioneers have been oh so close so many years.

hazzben

Quote from: emma17 on May 29, 2019, 05:50:06 PM
Assuming the go-forward WIAC football looks like the past WIAC, who could blame UWP for opposing an invite to St. Thomas?
The Pioneers have been oh so close so many years.

Adding UST would make the WIAC more competitive pretty much across the board. Which is saying something, given the level of excellence in the WIAC, across the board.

That said, given the current manner in which At Large bids are doled out, I think it'd be a net loss for the WIAC. You'd be all but guaranteed 2 bids each year. But probably have 3-4 playoff caliber teams that are sitting around with 2-3 losses. Give a quick glance at recent history. There are years in which UWW, UST, UWO, & UWP were all not just playoff caliber, but a quarterfinal and beyond level threat. But a 2 loss team is going to be a stretch to make the postseason. And a 3 loss team isn't getting a 3rd at large bid for a conference.

IMO, UWW & UWO would benefit from UST joining, just because it would make scheduling easier. UWP & UWL probably lose, since it makes their attempt to crack the top of the league just a little more daunting. It'd be really tough on Stout, UWSP, UWRF & UWEC. Easier scheduling. But now a even more challenging to recruit against a very good conference foe that sits right in the Twin Cities and is recruiting Western Wisconsin hard. That's a very football-centric look at things. To make a lazy analogy. If the ACC booted Clemson for being too good, would the SEC really be drooling to add them? I doubt it, given how competitive the conference already is.

jknezek

Quote from: hazzben on May 30, 2019, 09:42:57 AM
Quote from: emma17 on May 29, 2019, 05:50:06 PM
Assuming the go-forward WIAC football looks like the past WIAC, who could blame UWP for opposing an invite to St. Thomas?
The Pioneers have been oh so close so many years.

Adding UST would make the WIAC more competitive pretty much across the board. Which is saying something, given the level of excellence in the WIAC, across the board.

That said, given the current manner in which At Large bids are doled out, I think it'd be a net loss for the WIAC. You'd be all but guaranteed 2 bids each year. But probably have 3-4 playoff caliber teams that are sitting around with 2-3 losses. Give a quick glance at recent history. There are years in which UWW, UST, UWO, & UWP were all not just playoff caliber, but a quarterfinal and beyond level threat. But a 2 loss team is going to be a stretch to make the postseason. And a 3 loss team isn't getting a 3rd at large bid for a conference.

IMO, UWW & UWO would benefit from UST joining, just because it would make scheduling easier. UWP & UWL probably lose, since it makes their attempt to crack the top of the league just a little more daunting. It'd be really tough on Stout, UWSP, UWRF & UWEC. Easier scheduling. But now a even more challenging to recruit against a very good conference foe that sits right in the Twin Cities and is recruiting Western Wisconsin hard. That's a very football-centric look at things. To make a lazy analogy. If the ACC booted Clemson for being too good, would the SEC really be drooling to add them? I doubt it, given how competitive the conference already is.

Yes. Because D1 is driven by television ratings and television dollars, and Clemson added to the SEC makes for better games and bigger dollar packages. But if we were judging DI by DIII standards, then you are correct. You just can't do that though. Money rules everything in D1.

WW

Quote from: hazzben on May 30, 2019, 09:42:57 AM
Quote from: emma17 on May 29, 2019, 05:50:06 PM
Assuming the go-forward WIAC football looks like the past WIAC, who could blame UWP for opposing an invite to St. Thomas?
The Pioneers have been oh so close so many years.

Adding UST would make the WIAC more competitive pretty much across the board. Which is saying something, given the level of excellence in the WIAC, across the board.

That said, given the current manner in which At Large bids are doled out, I think it'd be a net loss for the WIAC. You'd be all but guaranteed 2 bids each year. But probably have 3-4 playoff caliber teams that are sitting around with 2-3 losses. Give a quick glance at recent history. There are years in which UWW, UST, UWO, & UWP were all not just playoff caliber, but a quarterfinal and beyond level threat. But a 2 loss team is going to be a stretch to make the postseason. And a 3 loss team isn't getting a 3rd at large bid for a conference.

IMO, UWW & UWO would benefit from UST joining, just because it would make scheduling easier. UWP & UWL probably lose, since it makes their attempt to crack the top of the league just a little more daunting. It'd be really tough on Stout, UWSP, UWRF & UWEC. Easier scheduling. But now a even more challenging to recruit against a very good conference foe that sits right in the Twin Cities and is recruiting Western Wisconsin hard. That's a very football-centric look at things. To make a lazy analogy. If the ACC booted Clemson for being too good, would the SEC really be drooling to add them? I doubt it, given how competitive the conference already is.

Sure, scheduling would be easier, but that one NC game you wouldn't have to schedule would get replaced with a league shlobberknocker. I don't think this benefits UWO or UWW from a football perspective, and most certainly does not benefit what's currently the next tier in UWL and UWP. It simply makes it more likely that one of them, as a potentially quarterfinal-or-better worthy team, would be further challenged to make the playoffs at all.

'95 Blugold

Quote from: WW on May 30, 2019, 12:28:20 PM
Quote from: hazzben on May 30, 2019, 09:42:57 AM
Quote from: emma17 on May 29, 2019, 05:50:06 PM
Assuming the go-forward WIAC football looks like the past WIAC, who could blame UWP for opposing an invite to St. Thomas?
The Pioneers have been oh so close so many years.

Adding UST would make the WIAC more competitive pretty much across the board. Which is saying something, given the level of excellence in the WIAC, across the board.

That said, given the current manner in which At Large bids are doled out, I think it'd be a net loss for the WIAC. You'd be all but guaranteed 2 bids each year. But probably have 3-4 playoff caliber teams that are sitting around with 2-3 losses. Give a quick glance at recent history. There are years in which UWW, UST, UWO, & UWP were all not just playoff caliber, but a quarterfinal and beyond level threat. But a 2 loss team is going to be a stretch to make the postseason. And a 3 loss team isn't getting a 3rd at large bid for a conference.

IMO, UWW & UWO would benefit from UST joining, just because it would make scheduling easier. UWP & UWL probably lose, since it makes their attempt to crack the top of the league just a little more daunting. It'd be really tough on Stout, UWSP, UWRF & UWEC. Easier scheduling. But now a even more challenging to recruit against a very good conference foe that sits right in the Twin Cities and is recruiting Western Wisconsin hard. That's a very football-centric look at things. To make a lazy analogy. If the ACC booted Clemson for being too good, would the SEC really be drooling to add them? I doubt it, given how competitive the conference already is.

Sure, scheduling would be easier, but that one NC game you wouldn't have to schedule would get replaced with a league shlobberknocker. I don't think this benefits UWO or UWW from a football perspective, and most certainly does not benefit what's currently the next tier in UWL and UWP. It simply makes it more likely that one of them, as a potentially quarterfinal-or-better worthy team, would be further challenged to make the playoffs at all.

Where would you slot UST within the WIAC hierarchy of football. Obviously, UWW Tier 1, but UWO was a bit down last year and one has to assume they will rebound from that. I guess I'd see UST in the mix with UWO, UWP, UWL tier of teams in the league. My Blugolds pulled off upsets of both UWP & UWO last year, so even with the new coach I like to think we are trending upward a little. Top to bottom the WIAC is much stronger than the MIAC, and would pose significant challenges for UST to come through the conference schedule with a playoff slot compared to what they have now. Add in they'll probably want to maintain the St. John's rivalry and it would be a tough gauntlet for the Tommies. I mean they are only 2 years removed from them getting beat by Stout on the road.