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BB: General NY Region Talk

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Bob Maxwell:
This is a thread to pick up in the appropriate location from the NCAA tournament thread in the national topics.

Bob Maxwell:

Yes the SJF team is one that I was alluding too,... but that is water under the bridge so I won't go into who beat who and when they did it. 

Yes, Brockport did make their bed last year and missed the NCAA tournament with some losses that to get into the NCAA's should not have happened. However, cudos to the teams that upset them... as they played good games to do so.

The perception that the NY region is weak is a problem that is hard to overcome... and the only way to get beyond that is for the teams in the region (particularly the stronger ones) to go out and play the strong teams from the other regions.  I don't see a lot of teams other then Cortland, Ithaca and Brockport doing that for more then a game.  Those three teams have these types of teams peppered all over their schedules... the other regionally ranked teams don't.  That needs to change for the NY region to gain in the national picture.

I can speak to the teams that I know about... I am sure that Oneonta with Weber, Locke, Salamida or Schellinger on the mound would give any of the teams in any region a good contest over the last 4 years.  Would they win all the games...no, but they would be in them all and win their share.  Plattsburgh, over the same 4 year period is a team that on any day can beat anyone... RIT has had a team that was very hard to beat last year...  Those teams each playing 3 or 4 games against nationally ranked or recognized teams would go a long way with improving the NY regions reputation.  Same with St. John Fisher, Oswego, RPI...

It has to be a collective thing that the conferences make an effort to do.  When I coached, the conference had scheduling guidlines taht they required all teams to follow.... I don't recall them exactly, but it was things like play 50% of your non-conference schedule against teams ranked in the top 100 from the previous years RPI's.  Is that hard to do?  yes, but we all did it and the conference grew to where we got 3 teams in the NCAA tournament in a year.

I would love to see the conferences in the NY region upgrade their schedules.... but there are a lot of things that impact the schools ability to do that.

I am interested in hearing comments on how to improve the NY regions image nationally.

Ralph Turner:
The New York Region is comprised of 39 teams and 3 conferences.  This is a smaller than average region.

The Pool A conferences are the Skyline, the SUNYAC and the Liberty League.  Cazenovia, Keuka and D'Youville from the Pool A North Eastern AC will also compete in the New York Region.  (D'Youville moves to the AMCC in 2008-09.)

The 10 independent schools that compete for Pool B bids include the "E-8" schools and some CUNYAC schools.  I have not seen any changes in the composition of those conferences that might move them to Pool A.

If you are talking about respect for the New York Region and measuring it by playoffs bids that the region earns, then you can look in two areas.

The 2007 Handbook gave 6 Pool B bids.  I anticipate that one bid will go from Pool B to Pool A as the Presidents AC gets a bid, leaving 5 Pool B bids in 2008.

There were 14 Pool C (at large bids) given in 2007 for the 328 schools that did not earn a Pool A bid (Conference AQ) or Pool B.  That is less than 1 at-large bid for every 23 schools that did not get a Pool A or Pool B bid.  That means that New York should expect one or two Pool C bids just on chance alone.

Here are the Pool B bid winners in 2007:

Chapman University (Calif.)     Independent     35-5     10th
College of St. Scholastica (Minn.)    Upper Midwest Athletic Conference    36-6    4th
Emory University (Ga.)    University Athletic Association    35-7    9th
Ithaca College (N.Y.)    Empire Eight Conference    24-13    31st
Salisbury University (Md.)    Capital Athletic Conference    32-8    13th
Washington University (Mo.)    University Athletic Association    30-9    6th

Chapman and Emory (as did Kean! and Marietta) made the D3Series.

Ithaca earned a Pool B bid.  Sporting a 24-13 overall record suggests a degree of respect.

The Pool C bids were

Augustana College (Ill.)     College Conference of Illinois & Wisconsin     32-12     2nd
George Fox University (Ore.)    Northwest Conference    30-9    6th
Illinois Wesleyan University    College Conference of Illinois & Wisconsin    32-11    6th
Kean University (N.J.)    New Jersey Athletic Conference    35-8    5th
Keene State College (N.H.)    Little East Conference    29-13    1st
Marietta College (Ohio)    Ohio Athletic Conference    28-14    29th
Methodist College (N.C.)    USA South Athletic Conference    29-13    22nd
St. John Fisher College (N.Y.)    Independent    26-11    1st
St. Olaf College (Minn.)    Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference    31-8    18th
The University of Texas at Dallas    American Southwest Conference    32-11    1st
The College of Wooster (Ohio)    North Coast Athletic Conference    40-5    22nd
Trinity College (Conn.)    New England Small College Athletic Conference    28-6    6th
University of Wisconsin-Oshkosh    Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference    32-10    23rd
York College (Pa.)    Independent Capital AC   29-12    10th

Source:  2007 Regional Participants

As we look at Pool C, we see 2 schools (SJF and York PA) who were considered in Pool B being thought by the Regional Criteria (including Regional Rankings) to be good enough to get an at-large Pool C bid.

The fact that the New York Region got the expected number of bids mitigates against any lack of respect.

I hope that New York fans will understand the competitive balance in D3 is such that you can look back on a season's schedule and realize this.

If your team stayed home, and there was one loss that they should not have had, then that loss kept them home. 

Having reviewed the Pool C bids in football since 2001 and basketball Pool C bids since about 2002, I am firmly convinced of that fact.


Great information!  It helps me understand the process.  Thanks for making this available.

Bob Maxwell:

Yes, thanks for putting that together... it is interesting. 

The numbers do bear out that the proper number of teams went from the region...  I'm not trying to bash any other area, just stimulate some discussion about what can be done to improve the reputation of this region.

You mention it being a small region, which means there are fewer teams in it... and that is most likely why the perception exists... because there are fewer strong teams that are on the national stage and who arethere to talk about.  Percentage of teams most likely is the same in each region.... 

What I am saying is that if more of the top teams in NY were to make an effort to play more top teams from other regions, it would help to improve the "perception" that the region is not a strong one.  There are a handful of teams that could do this and be fairly successful... I mentioned several in last post, I am sure that there are a couple more each year too. 

A region is different then a conference... but I will make this point anyway as I feel it could apply loosely... One of the goals of a conference is to advance all of its teams as best it can so that they all grow together.  Yes, there are always top teams and bottom feeders in each conference.  But they should support each other to try to make all the teams better.  With a goal of raising the bottom teams so that they are competative not just in the conference, but against the top teams in other conferences too.  Substitute Region for conference and you can see what I'm trying to say...

I am suggesting that somehow the regional teams (and this can apply in any region, not just NY) make some bond to try to lift themselves collectively to be stronger.  That makes the situation better for all of them... and perhaps will give a team the benefit of the doubt with consideration to get into the championships.  to do this, the teams must stay competative with each other on the field, but eliminate the petty jealousies they have with each other off it and work together.  I know, that is a hard one for many people to do.... as they feel they are giving something up when they work together.  ???

Just trying to stimulate some baseball conversation at this time of year...


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