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Messages - SUMMIT!!!!!

#31
Quote from: DuffMan on July 15, 2020, 05:35:19 PM
Quote from: Lurking Dog on July 15, 2020, 05:20:23 PM
Welcome, St. Thomas!

https://pflfan.proboards.com/

So, I should register to continue trolling the Tom Kittens?
If that's what it takes to make your life livable, then by all means do so  :) ;D :D  Maybe when UST resurrects its wrestling program in D1, your son is good enough for a scholarship  ;D
#32
Quote from: AO on July 15, 2020, 06:05:01 PM
Quote from: Capn34 on July 15, 2020, 05:34:32 PM
Quote from: jamtod on July 15, 2020, 04:46:40 PM
Quote from: Capn34 on July 15, 2020, 04:36:53 PM
I still think football becomes irrelevant unless they start doing scholarships.  Pioneer league is basicallly D3 but the players can tell their friends they are D1.

Question on basketball.  How many of their current players can play at that level?

How does this also change life for coaches?  The pressure to win is different at that level.  If someone like Tauer who is a lifer has four bad years, do they start looking elsewhere?

I think hockey will be the easiest transition as the players at decent D3 schools have all played high level juniors and tan at least give D1 teams a competitive game.

Depends on your definition of "irrelevant."
The experts around here suggest that UST can step into the Pioneer League and go .500 pretty quickly. Competing for a league title there before long isn't out of the question. San Diego has won a game in the FCS playoffs a few times recently, but I don't think there is any chance a non-scholarship Pioneer League team is going to be any kind of national power. I think either the aim for football (nationally relevant, competing for a championship) changes OR the Pioneer League is a stepping stone towards a future application to the Mo Valley conference, where we'll get pounded on for a bit before hopefully being competitive.

It takes a long time and a lot of money to take the next step with football.  The biggest worry is how many meh seasons does it take to shrink an already small fan base.  I think hockey and women's sports will be fine, the men's basketball and football will take time.
Men's basketball is probably one of the easier transitions to make.  We're developing more D1 talent than ever.
Same for women's hoops, volleyball, baseball and softball. In all five sports, MN is developing D1 talent like never before and if UST can land a few of these per sport, the adjustment phase wont be all that long or painful.  Football and both hockeys have a rough road ahead.
#33
we're seeing more than the tip of the iceberg--

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/ivy-league-cancels-college-football-season-for-fall-2020-will-reevaluate-playing-sports-in-january-2021/

The Ivy has consistently been ahead of the curve (weak pun) as they were the first to cancel their hoops tourney in March.  The article touched on the possibility of football and other fall sports moving to the spring:  ""Football hasn't been decided yet if it would be moved to the spring, but logistically, I don't know how that would work," an Ivy League source told CBS Sports. "... You can't move all the sports to the spring; the logistics don't work. The soccer field is the lacrosse field. The scheduling would be a nightmare."" (of note-- the Ivies LOSE money on football)
#34
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 19, 2020, 05:00:30 PM
To the idea that only two schools in the MIAC would have been willing to play UST in non-conference play (not your comment, Sager, someone else's) ... I don't agree. I think there are more teams who wouldn't mind playing UST. Those who spoke to vote them out, sure... they aren't an option, but even though a "majority" seemed to be in place to vote UST out, it was a minority who was being vocal. I think there are a number of schools - let's say five or so - in the MIAC who would play UST in non-conference play.
Reading this made me laugh so hard this morning that my coffee went out of my nose. Obviously you are either clueless about or choosing to ignore the animosity and hostility that has been brewing in the MIAC for the past 7-10 or more years. You probably buy the Kool-aid that the football game vs Olaf (98-0) was the defining moment of the anti-UST sentiment....but that's not the case. Resentment and in some cases outright hatred has been growing as rapidly as UST's enrollment and endowment. The issues are rooted in UST's growing in size and its expanding academic programs -Law school, Nursing program, "encroachment" in certain schools' "recruiting territory" - and kicking UST's athletics is about the only recourse these schools have to "avenge" the growth of  "evil empire." I can guarantee you, on the men's side there are 6 MIAC schools that would not schedule a hoops game vs a D3-independent UST, and only one (SJU) that definitely would, leaving 3 maybes with St Scholastica not counted in either camp.

From the remaining MIAC schools perspective-- in hoops, they can play just 25 games. 20 of those are gobbled up by conference games, leaving 5 non-conference games. Every program uses 2 of those 5 for a early season trip out of state (Hawaii, Wash, Ca, OR, Chi, PR etc), leaving 3 slots.  Again, all schools have long standing friendly rivalries (GAC-BVU, Olaf-Luther, etc) that eat up 1, 2 if not all 3 of these. Also, most schools non-conference schedules are set or close to it for 2021-22. So even if there wasn't animosity towards UST, many of the remaining MIAC schools wouldn't be able to fit them on their schedule in 2021-22.  But with the animosity, I assure you that there are not 5 willing or wanting to play UST.
#35
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 18, 2020, 07:24:09 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on June 18, 2020, 07:11:56 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 18, 2020, 03:07:08 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on June 18, 2020, 03:01:07 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 18, 2020, 02:46:47 PMYeah... I've wondered if an independent year, as challenging as that can certainly be, might be better than hoping it works out at the last minute.

"Hello! Is this Sam Casey at Finlandia? Hi, this is Johnny Tauer over at St. Thomas. How're you doing, coach? Good. Listen, I've got a proposal for you. What would you say to Finlandia and St. Thomas playing a dozen games against each other in January and February of 2022?"

Didn't Thomas More even avoid the Finlandia trap?

Thomas More was far more centrally located, D3-wise, than is St. Thomas. With hardly any other D3 schools located to the north or to the west, UST has dramatically fewer scheduling options than Thomas More ever had.


I don't necessarily agree. If you look at where Thomas More is compared to other DIII institutions, there aren't as many to pick as you would imagine. There is only one other school in Kentucky, for example. And the Ohio schools weren't really interested in playing TMU.

UST I know has a lot of schools in Minnesota and especially in Wisconsin that would be interested in playing them. Dropping into ARC territory isn't horrible, either. I think UST would have a lot more suitors than you realize despite being located in Minneapolis.
I think you mean St Paul  (and if you lived in MN you'd understand that that is a BIG difference).

"A lot of schools in Minnesota... that would be interested in playing them"-- Really?? Who?  Other than SJU and Bethel and maybe GAC, no MIAC member would, seeing how they booted UST from the conference.

Also, your entire scheduling scenario/concern is predicated on the assumption that 2021-22  would be played as a D3 independent, which would be UST's last choice.  They remain confident that they will be playing a D1 schedule that year.
#36
Recruiting for UST will be a challenge in the first few years of the transition. For all sports but football, there are plenty of JuCo guys looking for a scholarship for year 3 and 4 of eligibility that will consider UST, whereas now they do not look at a D3 option. This is in addition to the usual pool of high school grads. JuCo players will be recruited for football as well, and with a D1 brand and a much larger recruiting budget, the recruiting scope will be expanded nationally, not just primarily the Upper Midwest.
#37
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 18, 2020, 03:07:08 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on June 18, 2020, 03:01:07 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 18, 2020, 02:46:47 PMYeah... I've wondered if an independent year, as challenging as that can certainly be, might be better than hoping it works out at the last minute.

"Hello! Is this Sam Casey at Finlandia? Hi, this is Johnny Tauer over at St. Thomas. How're you doing, coach? Good. Listen, I've got a proposal for you. What would you say to Finlandia and St. Thomas playing a dozen games against each other in January and February of 2022?"

Didn't Thomas More even avoid the Finlandia trap?

I can think of a lot of schools that wouldn't mind scheduling UST including some wishing they kept them on their schedule (UST having such a tight window with MIAC scheduling makes that a tough job, sometimes).
Why would UST want to schedule the dredges of D3 in 2021-22 or any D3 schools? They will play a full slate of Summit Conference games and should have no problem filling in the rest of their out-of-conference slate as there are plenty of mid-level and lower-level D1 teams looking for the "easy win" they would expect St Thomas to be.

Recruiting will be a challenge in the first few years of the transition, but there are plenty of JuCo guys looking for a scholarship for year 3 and 4 of eligibility that will consider UST, whereas now they do not look at a D3 option.
#38
Quote from: Gregory Sager on June 18, 2020, 12:39:28 PM
Quote from: formerd3db on June 17, 2020, 07:39:04 PM
Yes, congratulations to St. Thomas.

The one aspect of the NCAA press release that I had to laugh at was the last provision that stipulated they (St. Thomas and any DIII institution that would enter the transition process to DI in the future) would have to write and demonstrate policies that showed commitment to academic integrity, diversity and student well being! Is the NCAA committee that stupid? You've got to be kidding me! DIII schools already have that, so who are those NCAA committee/policy members trying to fool?! 🙄🙂

It's a pro forma hoop through which St. Thomas must jump so as to feed the NCAA's D1 propaganda machine. While it is an inadvertent snub to D3 in general (and to St. Thomas and the MIAC to some degree as well), I don't think that that's the intention behind this requirement, and I don't think it's how it will be received by the readers of the press release. The general public, and America's sports fandom in particular, knows very little about D3, aside from the fact that D3 consists of small schools that for the most part have little or no name recognition. Therefore, I question whether most Americans have an opinion formed about the "commitment to academic integrity, diversity, and student well-being" of D3 schools in comparison to D1 schools. If anything, they may assume that D3 schools are less corrupt, because rule-breaking and ignoring, covering up, or even fomenting lawless behavior for the sake of winning games and making money have tarnished the image of so many D1 schools over the past several decades ... which brings us to the propaganda aspect of that press release.
As I see it, the NCAA's decision last night was basically saying "we approve the move BUT we need to save face. We need to look like we're in charge an not being pushed around by member schools." Nothing in their list of "steps" is new or not already either done by UST or in process. If anything, the  "commitment to academic integrity, diversity, and student well-being"  at UST & D3 schools is probably higher than at D2 or D1.

I will miss D3 but am excited about  the future for UST!
#39
Quote from: OzJohnnie on June 17, 2020, 07:03:24 PM
Yeah, I'm surprised.  I thought UST would get the straight in.  I wonder what now.

St. Thomas still waiting for NCAA clearance to go Division-I

Quote
The NCAA will wait another nine months to vote on a proposal to allow schools to reclassify directly from Division III to Division I, but it will allow St. Thomas to request a waiver to begin the process.

St. Thomas has been waiting for several months to learn whether it will be permitted to make the DIII to DI leap. It hoped for a vote from the NCAA's Division I Council during its June meetings, which ended Wednesday. The NCAA announced Wednesday afternoon that its Strategic Vision and Planning Committee has forwarded a proposal for a direct DIII to DI transition, and the Division I Council introduced it into the 2020-21 legislative cycle.

The proposal will be reviewed by Division I members, who will give feedback before a vote no later than April 2021. In a news release, the NCAA said the Division I Council "would be receptive to a formal waiver request" from St. Thomas that would allow it to start the process of moving from DIII to DI.

Actually, I bet the waiver allows them to compete as if D1 but still not officially D1.  So D1 for all intents and purposes.
A truly historic day---in that I had the exact same thought as Oz, word for word, which scares me and should scare you too, Oz   8-) ;D :P

#40
Quote from: jamtod on June 17, 2020, 05:05:09 PM
Quote from: GoldandBlueBU on June 17, 2020, 05:03:34 PM
Wasn't there supposed to be an announcement about UST to D1 today?  Getting late in the afternoon...

My refresh button is getting warn out. Haven't seen anything yet.
Mine too until I re-read the lead paragraph of the Strib;s story: "St. Thomas should get some long-awaited clarity about its future Wednesday night, when the NCAA is expected to announce whether the school can move directly from Division III to Division I." (emphasis mine)
#41
Quote from: emma17 on June 05, 2020, 10:54:44 AM
Quote from: SUMMIT? on June 05, 2020, 10:13:09 AM
Based on the stories below, all new this week, I think it is way premature to think we will see the college football season - or any fall sport- as scheduled , if at all:


https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/three-oklahoma-state-players-test-positive-for-coronavirus-freshmen-told-not-to-report-to-campus/

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/alabama-football-at-least-five-players-have-reportedly-tested-positive-for-the-coronavirus/

And it's not just players:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/iowa-state-announces-first-positive-covid-19-test-result-within-athletic-department/

(I hope CBS Sport is a good enough news source for you Oz..... :) )

Are you suggesting that if a single case of COVID exists football/fall sports must shut down?
Surely we (the country) can't be of the mindset that there can be no COVID case in existence before returning to sport.

No, my point was that we are a long way from out of the woods on this.  There seems to be a segment of the populace that feels "those who are young, healthy and 'low risk'  like college athletes, can move on with lives as they were a year ago." Also, a large segment feels that, as governments relax restrictions, it's OK to resume life  as it was, that COVID is history.

Where do we draw the line and say "this is enough cases to shut down?"  For winter and spring sports seasons, that line came with very low numbers of cases on campuses. Do we wait until these types of reports start changing to "players and coaches hospitalized with COVID" or "players/coaches/support staff die from COVID"?  I don't profess to know where that line lays, but I think we're a lot closer to that line than most of us wil admit.


#44
Football divisional realignment FAQs-   https://www.miacathletics.com/sports/fball/2019-20/releases/20200527wdv96g

So Concordia & SJU could meet in back-to-back weeks in  2021 & 2022? Every future year is set up for Week 8 of league play being a rematch of Week 7.
#45
Quote from: OzJohnnie on May 09, 2020, 05:21:41 PM
Quote from: SUMMIT? on May 09, 2020, 04:02:18 PM
Quote from: OzJohnnie on May 08, 2020, 05:56:13 PM
https://www.cleveland.com/osu/2020/04/conference-commissioners-tell-pence-college-sports-wont-return-unless-all-students-do-report.html

This article raising an interesting point.  Apparently football can't return to college unless all students do because college athletes are amateurs.   They must generally live in the same conditions as the regular student body to stay amateurs.  So no football unless school is back in session. Hmmm...

That point was made clear to VP Pence by the presidents of D1's "Power 5" conferences when the veep asked if they could start the football season as scheduled. They added that remote or online classes doesn't cut it as far as school being "back in session." While they technically don't speak for the NCAA, the NCAA is generally very compliant in following their wishes/lead. Right now, id say its 50/50 if there will be a full football season this fall, but a lot can - and will- change in the next 3 to 4 months.

It's a labor law thing, not some general Power 5 whim.  The colleges lose their ability to treat the athletes as amateur revenue raisers (or, from the athletes' perspective they can claim employment privileges and protections, like collective bargaining) if the athletes live in substantially different conditions.  At least according to that article I shared.  Also, I'm not privy to vice presidential discussions and I'm wondering why you thought I should be.
No, but Id imagine you might be privy to articles published on numerous sports and news sites and even in old-school print newspapers.  And I wasn't addressing you or even disagreeing with you, just sharing info with the board as a whole that expanded on your point that there wouldn't be football till students were in class .  Like I am doing with this link to an interview with NCAA top dog Mark Emmert, published today on CBS Sportsline:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/ncaa-president-mark-emmert-doesnt-think-sports-can-begin-until-all-students-are-on-campus/