MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

Started by miac newbie, February 17, 2005, 03:57:25 PM

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Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

On a different topic, D3football tweeted that the presidents' meeting Thursday (conference call) decided to add the membership enrollment "question" to the May meeting agenda. In other words, they are still talking about it.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

AO

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 19, 2019, 11:38:52 AM
Yeah ... DII has a restriction that you must have a conference membership available when you apply to DII ... so that ain't happening.

Quote from: AO on April 18, 2019, 07:33:58 PM
The NCAA told the same thing to Liberty before giving them a waiver to be an FBS independent.  I'm guessing they think this policy might not hold up very well in court.

Let's start with this: don't use "NCAA" as if those in Indy made some kind of decision that was counter to what normally happens. All decisions are membership decisions. So, DI membership gave Liberty a waiver to be an FBS independent. Also, Liberty was a D1 institution already. Things are usually done differently for institutions that are already members of said division rather than entering as a non-member. (Not that it is that unique: Notre Dame is an FBS independent.)

But that is also completely different than what DII has for rules. Each division has its own set of membership rules (so do different sports depending on number of participants). Just because one division does one thing does NOT mean it translates or relates to another division. So, the Liberty example isn't relevant when talking about DII membership.

It probably isn't relevant when talking about DI membership. As it has been told to me on multiple occasions, no school is going to be granted DI membership without having been at DII first. Considering the DII process (from actual start at a school to finish) is likely a five year process ... and because DI won't likely take an institution that hasn't spent more than just the grace period in DII ... I tend to feel any DIII member who has DI aspirations has to figure they have a 10-15 year timeline in front of them before they would be accepted into DI. IMO.
I'm well aware that the staff in Indy doesn't make the rules, they're just trying to apply them.  When they approved the waiver they sent this release.
QuoteThe NCAA academic and membership affairs staff approved the request after seeking feedback from the NCAA Division I Strategic Vision and Planning Committee, the NCAA Division I Football Oversight Committee and the NCAA office of legal affairs.
It's just my speculation that part of the reason they gave Liberty the waiver was they thought Liberty might have a good case.  I think any team that has trouble joining a conference in any division will have a similar case.  Liberty might have been a very special case because they have the motivation and money to take it to the courts if they needed to.

I'm not sure any of that relates to St. Thomas since I think they might get an invite from the Northern Sun and they may have no desire to make an immediate jump to Division 1.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

An immediate jump to D1 does not exist. I have had that confirmed to me since I last posted. And my 10-15 year timeframe is also pretty accurate.

But again ... Liberty was a D1 school already. It pertained to D1 rules. It really has not relevance here.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

AO

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 19, 2019, 02:15:33 PM
An immediate jump to D1 does not exist. I have had that confirmed to me since I last posted. And my 10-15 year timeframe is also pretty accurate.

But again ... Liberty was a D1 school already. It pertained to D1 rules. It really has not relevance here.
Maybe it should exist in St. Thomas' case.  I feel real bad for the Tommies if they're effectively forced out of the division.  Moving to Division 2 is a downgrade in a lot of ways considering the MIAC gets more media coverage than the NSIC in Minnesota, the MIAC has higher attendance in football, the Tommies would likely lose the great rivalry with St. John's, and there won't be a tv deal to offset the cost of the scholarships.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Quote from: AO on April 19, 2019, 03:01:17 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 19, 2019, 02:15:33 PM
An immediate jump to D1 does not exist. I have had that confirmed to me since I last posted. And my 10-15 year timeframe is also pretty accurate.

But again ... Liberty was a D1 school already. It pertained to D1 rules. It really has not relevance here.
Maybe it should exist in St. Thomas' case.  I feel real bad for the Tommies if they're effectively forced out of the division.  Moving to Division 2 is a downgrade in a lot of ways considering the MIAC gets more media coverage than the NSIC in Minnesota, the MIAC has higher attendance in football, the Tommies would likely lose the great rivalry with St. John's, and there won't be a tv deal to offset the cost of the scholarships.

You open the door for one ... you open the door for all.

It isn't going to happen and DI doesn't care who anyone is. We don't change the rules in DIII because "of who someone is," why would DI change the rules just because of who we think UST is.

And we are FAR from having this thing play itself out. There are a lot of pieces and things going on behind the scenes, in my opinion, than just whether or not a few presidents are upset with the fact they cannot compete with UST.

I don't see how you think UST is being forced out of the division at this point. There are other options, but things have to move further down the road before we start looking for exit signs or parachutes.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

jknezek

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 19, 2019, 03:31:42 PM

I don't see how you think UST is being forced out of the division at this point. There are other options, but things have to move further down the road before we start looking for exit signs or parachutes.
This. I think St. Thomas will have DIII conference options if this happens. Maybe not convenient options, but options. The school that is being forced from DIII is Thomas More. Literally NO conference would take them in. Until UST hits that point, they aren't being forced from DIII. Just possibly forced from their most convenient situation. That's 2 different things.

Kilroy

Twitter: @northstaralex

Smitty Oom

I have heard rumors that RFR Jake Guse F (6'8" 230lbs) from Mankato State will be transferring to GAC this year. The front court combo of him and Nolan Malo (MIAC All-Freshman team) could be dangerous for the next couple years.

Smitty Oom

Concordia Moorhead has recently went public with their recruiting class. They seem to be quite happy with the new class, with a chance for a couple of them to possibly find some minutes on the 2019-2020 Cobb team.

Cav-J

Quote from: Kilroy on May 02, 2019, 12:14:08 AM
SMU gets a starting-caliber PG.

https://twitter.com/DeShawnPickfor1/status/1123760730707320843

A very good recruiting class for the Red Birds and a few more pieces could fall into place yet this off season.

I'm tell you, the 2019-20 Cardinals are a playoff team.
Go Cards.

hazzben

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 19, 2019, 03:31:42 PM
And we are FAR from having this thing play itself out. There are a lot of pieces and things going on behind the scenes, in my opinion, than just whether or not a few presidents are upset with the fact they cannot compete with UST.

I don't see how you think UST is being forced out of the division at this point. There are other options, but things have to move further down the road before we start looking for exit signs or parachutes.

1st - as has been discussed on the FB board, this is all but done. UST is going to be voted out. I don't agree with it, I think the presidents at Olaf, etc. are being cowards in the "no comment" way they are handling this, but it's going to happen. The Star Trib and Reusse have been following the developments closely.

2nd - What conference landing spot?? MWC isn't taking them in for the same reasons Olaf and MAC want them out. ARC hasn't shown any interest that I'm aware of. UMAC would get utterly slaughtered in most sports, and UST would never want to join that league. The WIAC is all Wisconsin schools for FB and Bball and I've heard of no interest.

UST has two options. Go Independent ... which would be brutal in sports like basketball. Or go up to D2.

Side note: 97-0 was all sorts of personal in FB. Killian left UST and took key assistants with him. It pissed Caruso off in a major way. Olaf was in terrible shape from the previous regime and was in trouble anyway. It's not the only thing driving this, but it's the straw that broke the camel's back. Schools were already uncomfortable/unhappy with UST's approach. But Anderson at Olaf took it personally and rallied the troops to jump start the process.

Sad stuff, but it's happening.

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)


I don't know if the WIAC has any particular membership limitations.  They had an extra member not long ago and might be down for another.  If UST has to leave, that might be a really good fit.  It's public vs private, but the enrollment sizes are much closer.
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GoldandBlueBU

Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 14, 2019, 11:42:15 PM

I don't know if the WIAC has any particular membership limitations.  They had an extra member not long ago and might be down for another.  If UST has to leave, that might be a really good fit.  It's public vs private, but the enrollment sizes are much closer.

That'd add a lot of travel for UST, do-able for football given the smaller number of games, but that's a lot of trips for basketball, baseball, etc.  Not to mention the extra trips for the WIAC members.

I agree it's a decent fit, but not sure how interested the parties would be.

old_hooper

The WIAC would be a great fit for the Tommies if the conference would entertain.  Five of the 8 schools in the conference are within 200 miles or less.  When Superior left a few years ago it has probably been more positive for the conference.  Not sure the WIAC is interested in expanding but even if they were you would have to think it would be more than one school and to do so most likely would have to do it with private schools.

Gregory Sager

#19769
It would definitely have to expand with private schools. The nearest non-WIAC public school to Wisconsin in D3 -- aside from UW-Superior, of course -- is Minnesota-Morris, which is 3 3/4 hours from the nearest WIAC school.
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